# 38mm Khaki Mechanical- ETA now or wait for H-50 ?



## Explorer23 (Feb 9, 2019)

Hi all,

I've had my eyes on the 38mm Hack watch for awhile now, and I just saw the reports that there'll be some new colours and straps coming soon. But i also saw that they are replacing the ETA 2801 with the new H-50 with a 80hr power reserve. 

I'm currently traveling in Asia and I can get the ETA one for about $475 Canadian, whereas if I get it in Canada it'll be around $600-650 after tax. 

My question is, is the new H-50 movement worth the wait? I have a 42mm Air Race right now (selling it soon) with the 80hr reserve and while I think it's amazing it can last a weekend without winding, I do kind of enjoy hand winding my watches, although I've never owned a full mechanical before. 

For any Hack owners out there, could you comment on the accuracy you've been getting and roughly how many hours PR? I saw some owners have problems with the watch on Youtube, though that may have been that limited edition one with the 80hr reserve.


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## stockae92 (Feb 10, 2006)

I went with the tried-n-trued ETA movement. I want a work-horse of a watch, ETA movement is reliable and easy to fix (if needed). That's what I opt for.


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## Sir-Guy (Apr 25, 2017)

My Khaki Mechanical averages about +3 spd. It gains the slowest in 6-up...so if my wrist is on a desk a lot during the day it'll do about +2, and if I'm more active it'll do about +4. It's a 2804-2 (hand-winding with date). I don't wear it enough days in a row to need the longer power reserve, and I like the frequency (eight ticks per second rather than six).


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## c185445 (Feb 10, 2018)

I'm no expert, but one of the reasons why I like to prefer the newest movements is future serviceability.


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## Munchie (Dec 20, 2013)

I would get the one with the ETA movement while you have the opportunity to do so.

Like Sir - Guy I prefer the smooth second hand sweep of 8BPS over the 6BPS H-50. And Im not too bothered about an 80 hour power reserve.

I actually bought and returned a Khaki 38mm automatic as I thought it had an ETA movement (it was advertised as such) but it turned out to have the H-10.

Some may find this irrational but I am actually annoyed with Swatch for replacing nearly all of their entry level watches that had ETA movements with these new fangled H10 or Powermatic 80 movements.

My understanding is that any competent independent watch repairer should be able to service the ETA movements but the H-10 H-50 or Powermatics will need to be serviced by Swatch - I could be wrong though.


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## GMT-man (Dec 1, 2017)

As far as I understand H-10 can not be regulated just by turning one screw. So ETA 2901 for me, and that is what it is.

Any half decent watchmaker can service an old and tried ETA caliber, not necessarily the new ones.


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

I vote for ETA.


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## c185445 (Feb 10, 2018)

GMT-man said:


> As far as I understand H-10 can not be regulated just by turning one screw. So ETA 2901 for me, and that is what it is.
> 
> Any half decent watchmaker can service an old and tried ETA caliber, not necessarily the new ones.


The only requirement needed by a watchmaker to be able to service an H-10 is (besides the obvious: spare parts if neeeded) is being able to regulate a free-sprung system. If a watchmaker cannot deal with such system, I'm not sure I'd trust him or her to service any of my watches regardless of the simplicity of the movement.


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## Quartersawn (Nov 20, 2008)

The 2801 is a movement proven reliable over the decades it has been in use. Mine runs at +12 seconds a day and has a 51 hour PR. I would pay extra for the 2801, not the other way around.


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## Vicc (Jul 30, 2010)

As a watchmaker I would go with the ETA just because it's easily serviceable by anyone and parts are widely available. When the time comes to service an in-house movement and the watch is over the warranty period and parts have to be replaced you'll be at the mercy of the manufacturer and will likely end up paying double or triple in service fees.


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## GMT-man (Dec 1, 2017)

ETA 2801 I can regulate myself, but I would not touch a free-sprung caliber. I have regulated 2824-2 and 2893-2 dozens of times, just the +- screw needs some tweaking. 2810 has the same system as you can see in the picture 3 posts above.


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## Vicc (Jul 30, 2010)

GMT-man said:


> ETA 2801 I can regulate myself, but I would not touch a free-sprung caliber. I have regulated 2824-2 and 2893-2 dozens of times, just the +- screw needs some tweaking. 2810 has the same system as you can see in the picture 3 posts above.


Are you sure about that? The regulating weights are on both sides of the balance wheel. Both have to be turned exactly the same or you'll have disbalance, not to mention you can't regulate that inside the movement. You have to take out the balance otherwise you're risking breaking the balance staff.


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## R.Squire (Feb 17, 2013)

I’d go with ETA. 40 more hours of power reserve is not worth the trade of only being able to get your watch/H-10 or H-50 movement serviced by swatch


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## c185445 (Feb 10, 2018)

Vicc said:


> Are you sure about that? The regulating weights are on both sides of the balance wheel. Both have to be turned exactly the same or you'll have disbalance, not to mention you can't regulate that inside the movement. You have to take out the balance otherwise you're risking breaking the balance staff.


I think he was talking about the movements that aren't free-sprung, which I guess only require to move the + - screw as he said.

In regards to available parts and prices... That's actually a worry of mine. What if ETA focus on the newer movements. Sure now an ETA 2801 is ubiquitous, but how about in 10 years when the watches we buy now need a service. I think the Swatch service is €170/$170 which is a fine price imo to get a watch running again after 8 or 10 years.


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## The Loco (May 1, 2018)

For a mechanical, I would absolutely go with the 80 hours model. For an automatic it wouldn't bother much and it could be nice to see the second hand sweeping more smoothly.

But I like the 38 auto version better, because besides being automatic which may be important if you're busy, it also has beautiful hours and minutes hands and the red tip on the seconds hand.


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## GMT-man (Dec 1, 2017)

c185445 said:


> I think he was talking about the movements that aren't free-sprung, which I guess only require to move the + - screw as he said.
> 
> In regards to available parts and prices... That's actually a worry of mine. What if ETA focus on the newer movements. Sure now an ETA 2801 is ubiquitous, but how about in 10 years when the watches we buy now need a service. I think the Swatch service is €170/$170 which is a fine price imo to get a watch running again after 8 or 10 years.


Yes. I said I would not touch the free-sprung adjustment weights, but 2801 has just one fixed + or - marked regulator screw which is easy and safe to adjust by anybody with reasonably steady hands. Same with 2824 and 2893.

That kind of regulation adjusts the (working) length of the balance spring and is not as precise as adjusting the weights on the balance wheel. The plus side is the safety, speed and simplicity of regulation.

ETA has been making the basic calibers for 30-40-50 years and will continue to do so, also parts. After all Swatch group owns both the mechanism manufacture and Hamilton (among many others). Why would they stop taking care of servicing their own brands?


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## c185445 (Feb 10, 2018)

It does happen apparently that a watch won't be serviced by Swatch anymore. I remember this case from few weeks ago. It's why I prefer to stick to the newer movements. I mean, I went for my Hammy because I found it perfect, didn't care so much about the movement (though I appreciate what it offers) but up to that post I read now I'm more wary about movements.

But I hope it's as you say and in 10 years the older movements can still be serviced, and that ETA/Swatch still give parts, also to other brands (do wonder how the thing is going as I remember reading stories about ETA cutting the supply), otherwise my Junghans won't be able to get serviced.


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## s2sera2 (Aug 20, 2018)

+1 for ETA. I prefer the smoother sweep and any excuse to wind my watch more frequently.


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## Vicc (Jul 30, 2010)

GMT-man said:


> Yes. I said I would not touch the free-sprung adjustment weights, but 2801 has just one fixed + or - marked regulator screw which is easy and safe to adjust by anybody with reasonably steady hands. Same with 2824 and 2893.
> 
> That kind of regulation adjusts the (working) length of the balance spring and is not as precise as adjusting the weights on the balance wheel. The plus side is the safety, speed and simplicity of regulation.
> 
> ETA has been making the basic calibers for 30-40-50 years and will continue to do so, also parts. After all Swatch group owns both the mechanism manufacture and Hamilton (among many others). Why would they stop taking care of servicing their own brands?


Sorry for the misunderstanding.


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## Stromboli (Mar 26, 2010)

|>|>|>|>|>|>|>|>|>|>|>|>|>|>|> My sentiment.


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## PrimeTime0099 (Feb 15, 2015)

Go with the ETA and save some cash.


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## abccoin (Jul 18, 2012)

s2sera2 said:


> +1 for ETA. I prefer the smoother sweep and any excuse to wind my watch more frequently.


This. The longer power reserve sounds good but the fun of the mechanical is to wind it up.... 80 hours is over 3 days between windups...dont know if I could do that!


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

Those prices are quite steep, should be under $400USD.

I like the ETA better for the smoother beat rate. 
The H is noticibly jerkier.

40 hour PR is plenty.


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## wemedge (Jun 10, 2006)

Mine came in this week, ETA. For the price, I decided not to wait.

Not sure if I like the stock strap because of the leather keepers. Have it on a gasgasbones strap now.


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## Jezza (Aug 4, 2010)

I don't see an appreciable difference either way on this. Parts availability is not going to be an issue for some time on the 2801. As for the power reserve, I suppose 80hrs is nice, but in a manual-wound watch you're probably going to wind it fully every day anyway. It just takes a few seconds. Moreover, these watches are typically timed with a full or nearly full power reserve. With an 80hr power reserve, you are likely to see a significant swing in the watch's rate unless you wind it on a daily basis. Now, if you prefer a free-sprung balance, or if you like any of the new dial or strap combinations, then go for it. 

There's something to be said for the difference in beat rate between these movements. I'm not a watchmaker or expert, but some folks swear by the increased precision of a, 4hz movement vs the 3hz movement. On the other hand, I would think the 3hz movement would require less frequent servicing, since there is less wear on the movement. Outside of that, both movements are adjusted to the same accuracy range. 

I currently have the 2801 version, and it's a lovely watch. I would get an H-50 version as well if they made a compelling dial or strap combination. However, I'm not impressed with the lume--especially on the hour markers. There's an area Hamilton could improve upon that would matter to me more than the movement. Also, it would be nice if they used metal keepers on the NATO strap as opposed to leather--something more like what is currently featured on the Scuba.


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## Flopi81 (Jan 17, 2018)

I have the Hamilton W10 reissue with H 50 movement. I am winding my watch every three days so power reserve is 72 hours or more... Accuracy as shown in pictures.









Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

Sorry for the necro bump but what is the consensus, ETA version is better? Also, I thought ETA makes the H-50, is that right?

I had read this:

Made exclusively for Hamilton by ETA, the H-50 is essentially the same movement but with an upgraded 80-hour power reserve.

That was accomplished by reducing the consumption of energy, while enlarging the power source. The frequency of the balance, for instance, was slowed from 4Hz to 3Hz, or from 28,800 beats per hour (bph) to 21,600bph. And the core of the barrel arbor was reduced, which enabled the mainspring to be lengthened, thereby increasing the power reserve.

https://watchesbysjx.com/2019/06/ha...e of the,thereby increasing the power reserve.


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

mario24601 said:


> Sorry for the necro bump but what is the consensus, ETA version is better? Also, I thought ETA makes the H-50, is that right?
> 
> I had read this:
> 
> ...


Your first question, about the older ETA 2801-2 and the ETA 2804-2 is a better movement than the current H-50. You will always have one side that will have strong opinions in favour of the older ETA 2801-2 and ETA 2804-2; and another side, which has moved on and accepted the fact that the H-50 is what is being currently offered by the Hamilton Watch Company with their current handwound/mechanical models.

As to your second question. The best way to put it is that Hamilton is continually investing in the development of new movements and with the industrial support of ETA for its automatic, mechanical and analog quartz movements, and with Asulab and EM Microelectronic when it came to their PSR's digital quartz movement. The key takeaway is that Hamilton controls the investment and the development of their movements and not the other way around.


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

NC_Hager626 said:


> Your first question, about the older ETA 2801-2 and the ETA 2804-2 is a better movement than the current H-50. You will always have one side that will have strong opinions in favour of the older ETA 2801-2 and ETA 2804-2; and another side, which has moved on and accepted the fact that the H-50 is what is being currently offered by the Hamilton Watch Company with their current handwound/mechanical models.
> 
> As to your second question. The best way to put it is that Hamilton is continually investing in the development of new movements and with the industrial support of ETA for its automatic, mechanical and analog quartz movements, and with Asulab and EM Microelectronic when it came to their PSR's digital quartz movement. The key takeaway is that Hamilton controls the investment and the development of their movements and not the other way around.


Thanks, appreciate this!


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## ReallyBored (Dec 19, 2018)

mario24601 said:


> Sorry for the necro bump but what is the consensus, ETA version is better? Also, I thought ETA makes the H-50, is that right?
> 
> I had read this:
> 
> ...


Hello Mario24601,

My suggestion is to read the threads, do some outside research, and decide for yourself.

Both movements are typical ETA quality.


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

ReallyBored said:


> Hello Mario24601,
> 
> My suggestion is to read the threads, do some outside research, and decide for yourself.
> 
> Both movements are typical ETA quality.


Thanks, yeah ive been reading more and more...its split about 50 50 on which is better  I guess both are good.


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

Hey guys, been timing my new H-50 version and its running about 12-15 seconds fast per day. Does this sound acceptable or within specifications?


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

Just to clarify, I do not have an H-50 movement. 

If I had a new H-50 movement, or any H-movement, running 12-15 seconds fast per day (a gain of -/+2 seconds per day would be considered acceptable for any H-movement), I would seek as to what may be causing its precision of accuracy to be 12-15 fast per day, such as follows:

a) is the power reserve topped up. It is my understanding when the power reserve (PR) is less than 75 to 80 percent of its full reserve, deviations in its precision of accuracy will occur. It should be noted that even though your PR is 80 hours. All that means is that you can take your watch off for three days and it will be still running on the fourth day. However, on the fourth day, whether it is an automatic or a hand-wound, to things should occur: 1) you should top up the PR by giving it enough hand winds until you feel some resistance. 2) to reset the time to compensate for the variance in the precision of accuracy because of a low PR. It should also be noted that those who have an H-50 movement do wind their watches at least once a day until they feel some resistance.

b) the resting position when you take the watch off: crown up, crown down, face-up, face-down, and so forth. For this, you will have to experiment with which position will cause an increase or decrease your watch's time.

Note: You will notice I left out magnetism. The reason for this is that you will know if your watch is magnetized because of an absurd gain in minutes (not seconds) per day will occur. Also, there have been enough troll posts on this subject matter to cloud what is probably the real issue at hand, which are the two points mentioned above.


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## ReallyBored (Dec 19, 2018)

mario24601 said:


> Hey guys, been timing my new H-50 version and its running about 12-15 seconds fast per day. Does this sound acceptable or within specifications?


Is that a daily rate or a particular position?

If it's a daily rate, it's noticeably worse than any C07 movement I've used. My worst is around +6 or 7 sec per day.

There are phone apps available to check if it's magnetized. You never know.

These movements aren't as easily regulated as the older 28xx movements, plus it might still be under warranty. Working on it yourself, or taking it to an independent watchmaker might void that warranty. So that leaves sending it back to Swatch or to an authorized service center. And who knows what kind of backlog those guys will have, coming out of the pandemic.

In the end, it's up to you what you want to do with your watch.


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

ReallyBored said:


> Is that a daily rate or a particular position?
> 
> If it's a daily rate, it's noticeably worse than any C07 movement I've used. My worst is around +6 or 7 sec per day.
> 
> ...


Yeah this is wearing it daily and resting upright at night. Today I checked it and it is now about 18-20 seconds fast (after 1.5 days)....hmmmm I just got this watch a few days ago so not sure if I should try to exchange it or what to do, live with it? I tried the magnetism app and it say detected but not sure if those are accurate or not.


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

mario24601 said:


> Yeah this is wearing it daily and resting upright at night. Today I checked it and it is now about 18-20 seconds fast (after 1.5 days)....hmmmm I just got this watch a few days ago so not sure if I should try to exchange it or what to do, live with it? I tried the magnetism app and it say detected but not sure if those are accurate or not.


To me, it sounds like positional variance could be the issue at hand and not magnetism. Below, one article that talks about "Why the Position of a Watch Influences Accuracy"

https://watchesbysjx.com/2020/02/positional-error-and-accuracy.html

As to your question about whether such magnetism apps, such as Lepsi, are accurate or not and just what type of magnetism are they measuring will always be up for debate - briefly, there are magnetism charges that will dissipate and there magnetism charges that cannot be dissipated. Also bear in mind that Hamilton's H-movements have taken into consideration the possibility of mitigating magnetism - especially, with their newer models that are being launched 2020. As for their older models, I would guess these models would have to be cleared out before these models would receive the current enhancements added to their perspective H-movements.

My suggestion to you is to explore the effects of positional and temperature/climate variance can have on a watch's precision of accuracy first. I would like to say that for me, resting my watches faced up will always increase their seconds per day, while resting with the crown up provides the best option in maintaining a watch's precision of accuracy when it is off the wrist.


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

NC_Hager626 said:


> To me, it sounds like positional variance could be the issue at hand and not magnetism. Below, one article that talks about "Why the Position of a Watch Influences Accuracy"
> 
> https://watchesbysjx.com/2020/02/positional-error-and-accuracy.html
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'll give it a try resting in different positions.

I am now thinking of maybe looking for the older ETA version....maybe, just unsure what to do.


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

mario24601 said:


> Thanks! I'll give it a try resting in different positions.
> 
> I am now thinking of maybe looking for the older ETA version....maybe, just unsure what to do.


I would just give yourself some time in familiarizing yourself with your watch and its H-movement. As I alluded to in my previous post, the H-movements have incorporated the latest technology in mitigating magnetism, as well as, the effects with shocks compared to their older ETA counterparts.

Enjoy getting to know your watch's idiosyncrasies - I guess this is what the mean when they say an automatic and hand-wound movements have 'a heart or soul' compared to a quartz movement.


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## ReallyBored (Dec 19, 2018)

mario24601 said:


> Yeah this is wearing it daily and resting upright at night. Today I checked it and it is now about 18-20 seconds fast (after 1.5 days)....hmmmm I just got this watch a few days ago so not sure if I should try to exchange it or what to do, live with it? I tried the magnetism app and it say detected but not sure if those are accurate or not.


Yeah, I can see your dilemma. People can argue about beat rates and power reserves, but to me, the crux of the matter is that with the newer movements you sacrifice a certain measure of control over how you would like your watch to run. If your watch meets or exceeds your expectations out of the box (my personal experiences with these movements) then it's easy to gloss over the issue. But if it's on the cusp between acceptable / unacceptable, then it's a tougher call.

You can play around with rest positions. And those cheap blue demagnetizers can be a good investment if it saves you aggravation down the line. But if those steps don't work, then you've got a decision to make. Good luck!


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

NC_Hager626 said:


> I would just give yourself some time in familiarizing yourself with your watch and its H-movement. As I alluded to in my previous post, the H-movements have incorporated the latest technology in mitigating magnetism, as well as, the effects with shocks compared to their older ETA counterparts.
> 
> Enjoy getting to know your watch's idiosyncrasies - I guess this is what the mean when they say an automatic and hand-wound movements have 'a heart or soul' compared to a quartz movement.


Thanks appreciate all the feedback! Yeah I love my other autos but I also love quartz, my 2264 is my daily.

I have calculated it and this Hamilton is running 10-12 secs fast per 12 hr period, so about 22 seconds fast per day. Seems a bit too fast me just considering it's a brand new watch.


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

mario24601 said:


> Thanks appreciate all the feedback! Yeah I love my other autos but I also love quartz, my 2264 is my daily.
> 
> I have calculated it and this Hamilton is running 10-12 secs fast per 12 hr period, so about 22 seconds fast per day. Seems a bit too fast me just considering it's a brand new watch.


You are welcome.

When I bought my Khaki Aviation Pilot Schott NYC, which has an H-30 movement, back in November. It would lose almost a minute per week. However, I was not concerned about it for three reasons: 
1) it was a brand new watch and/or movement, and it probably needed time to break in, 
2) it was the start of winter and the cold, along with wearing heavy outerwear, which can affect a watch 's movement's material, and 
3) when it was not worn, it was kept on a watch winder (positional variance factor).​for these three factors could affect its precision of accuracy.

Since spring, this watch's overall weekly timing performance has been much better. That reminds me, it is my opinion that it is much better to gauge a watch's overall accuracy performance on a weekly basis instead on a daily basis, thereby giving an average in the "-/+" seconds per day rate.


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

NC_Hager626 said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> When I bought my Khaki Aviation Pilot Schott NYC, which has an H-30 movement, back in November. It would lose almost a minute per week. However, I was not concerned about it for three reasons:
> 1) it was a brand new watch and/or movement, and it probably needed time to break in,
> ...


Thanks again. Its pretty warm here in CA but I'll give it some time to see if it "settles down".


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## grenert (Dec 9, 2016)

mario24601 said:


> I have calculated it and this Hamilton is running 10-12 secs fast per 12 hr period, so about 22 seconds fast per day. Seems a bit too fast me just considering it's a brand new watch.


Does it run that fast when you are not wearing it?


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## Bonzodog (Oct 31, 2019)

I’ve had my H50 a week now,only gained a few seconds over that time.


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

Im wearing it from about 8am to 10pm, so roughly half on half resting, seems its picking up time during both wearing it and while resting.


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

ReallyBored said:


> Yeah, I can see your dilemma. People can argue about beat rates and power reserves, but to me, the crux of the matter is that with the newer movements you sacrifice a certain measure of control over how you would like your watch to run. If your watch meets or exceeds your expectations out of the box (my personal experiences with these movements) then it's easy to gloss over the issue. But if it's on the cusp between acceptable / unacceptable, then it's a tougher call.
> 
> You can play around with rest positions. And those cheap blue demagnetizers can be a good investment if it saves you aggravation down the line. But if those steps don't work, then you've got a decision to make. Good luck!


Thanks, yeah I guess more than anything its bothering me since it is brand new. During this time just harder to exchange stuff.



NC_Hager626 said:


> Just to clarify, I do not have an H-50 movement.
> 
> If I had a new H-50 movement, or any H-movement, running 12-15 seconds fast per day (a gain of -/+2 seconds per day would be considered acceptable for any H-movement), I would seek as to what may be causing its precision of accuracy to be 12-15 fast per day, such as follows:
> 
> ...


Thanks, yeah its been resting face up and on an upright stand, and laying on crown edge, same results for all. As of today its about 24 secs fast, after I reset the time, so its picking up too much time in my view. Im probably being picky but Im going to exchange it.



Bonzodog said:


> I've had my H50 a week now,only gained a few seconds over that time.


Yeah this would be great, I think I'm going to exchange it.

Thanks all for your replies!! Given this is my first Hamilton, I am still excited and looking forward to owning it! Its a great looking watch and I love the size, not sure I can go back to my divers


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

So after 2 days its now up to 2 mins 20 seconds....pretty fast huh? Even for H-50 movement?


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

mario24601 said:


> So after 2 days its now up to 2 mins 20 seconds....pretty fast huh? Even for H-50 movement?


I would say something is not right. If you bought from an AD, take it to your AD and have them look into the matter.


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## grenert (Dec 9, 2016)

That's more than just poor regulation, it is definitely not functioning properly. Agree with the suggestion to take it back to your dealer to exchange/repair. That's what the warranty is for, after all!


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## Bonzodog (Oct 31, 2019)

mario24601 said:


> So after 2 days its now up to 2 mins 20 seconds....pretty fast huh? Even for H-50 movement?


That's not right.


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

grenert said:


> That's more than just poor regulation, it is definitely not functioning properly. Agree with the suggestion to take it back to your dealer to exchange/repair. That's what the warranty is for, after all!


After I adjusted the time a day and a half ago, its 23-24 seconds fast, would this be acceptable to you guys or should I just return it? So I figure its pretty much 20 seconds fast/day. Thanks


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## Baltmech (Nov 7, 2018)

Newbie here - Just a quick question. I'm looking to purchase the mechanical no date with black face w/ the ETA 2801. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, it appears that Hamilton has made the case backs identical with the H-50 and ETA 2801 - it reads* H694390 *or sometimes *H694290* for both versions*. *I believe I must be missing something here, and if someone could give a heads-up to disquish between the watches by case back, that would be greatly appreciated.


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

The H694390 is the black dial Khaki Field Mechanical and the H694290 is the green dial Khaki Field Mechanical. Both models are outfitted with the H-50 movement, which replaced the ETA 2801-2 and ETA 2804-2 calibers used previously with the Hamilton Khaki Field mechanicals.


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## Baltmech (Nov 7, 2018)

NC_Hager626 said:


> The H694390 is the black dial Khaki Field Mechanical and the H694290 is the green dial Khaki Field Mechanical. Both models are outfitted with the H-50 movement, which replaced the ETA 2801-2 and ETA 2804-2 calibers used previously with the Hamilton Khaki Field mechanicals.


Thanks NC_Hager626, very helpful. Guessing there's nothing on the exterior that's physically different to indicate whether one has the ETA or the H-50? - with the exception of a smoother second hand sweep (ETA).


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

Baltmech said:


> Thanks NC_Hager626, very helpful. Guessing there's nothing on the exterior that's physically different to indicate whether one has the ETA or the H-50? - with the exception of a smoother second hand sweep (ETA).


Yes there is and it is the case back of the old (ETA 280X-2); and, the new (H-50) mechanical models, which also has the more stylized letter "H". See pics below:

An ETA 2804-2 case back:









An H-50 case back:


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## Ulsterman1547 (Mar 22, 2009)

I bought my field mechanical, H69429901, on Nov 3, 2018 and it has the stylized H on the case back and on the crown and it running an ETA 2801-2 movement.


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## Skeptical (Sep 14, 2012)

As another data point, mine has the 2801 movement and the same case back as the Gnomon one pictured above.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

Skeptical said:


> As another data point, mine has the 2801 movement and the same case back as the Gnomon one pictured above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Ulsterman1547 said:


> I bought my field mechanical, H69429901, on Nov 3, 2018 and it has the stylized H on the case back and on the crown and it running an ETA 2801-2 movement.


Interesting. There was must have been two different types of casing and crowns back in 2018 for the 38mm Khaki Field watch, as illustrated in the two links below. What is interesting about the Time and Tide's link is that the crowns are different between the black (ref. H69429931) and the brown (ref. H69429901), not only with a plain H (black) or a stylized H (brown) but it appears the crown for the brown Khaki may be of as wide/thick as with the crown for the black based on the combined top and bottom pictures of the two - _I guess I learned some of the finer details of the older Khaki Field mechanical models today. _









Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical Review: Big Mistake or Big Win?


Curious about the Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical? Find out if this unique manual wind Khaki is right for you with our in-depth review!




twobrokewatchsnobs.com












Hamilton - Khaki Field Mechanical 38 mm


In 2018, Hamilton is launching the Khaki Field Mechanical 38 mm, a new edition sporting a bold design true to the original 1969 "Hack" watch, one of Hamilton's last officially commissioned military watches. The Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanical 38 mm comes in two variations, black (ref. H69429931)...




www.timeandwatches.com


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## Skeptical (Sep 14, 2012)

It certainly seems strange. I can't think of any reason for using different logos for different color variations for watches of the same generation. I can't be sure of the crown size difference from looking at the pictures...I measured my brown dial's crown at 6.5mm wide and maybe 3.8mm long, for whatever that's worth.


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## davidif50 (Jul 2, 2017)

So is there a definitive way to tell if my Khaki Field is ETA or H powered?


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## Skeptical (Sep 14, 2012)

davidif50 said:


> So is there a definitive way to tell if my Khaki Field is ETA or H powered?


Yes, the reference numbers are different.

Edit - this is aside from the actual differences if the movement, for instance the higher best rate of the ETA, and the much longer power reserve of the H50.


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## Rayas (Oct 18, 2020)

Response to Baltmech, see below.

(Sorry about the wonky post; new here and haven't gotten the hang of how it works yet.)



Baltmech said:


> Newbie here - Just a quick question. I'm looking to purchase the mechanical no date with black face w/ the ETA 2801. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, it appears that Hamilton has made the case backs identical with the H-50 and ETA 2801 - it reads* H694390 *or sometimes *H694290* for both versions*. *I believe I must be missing something here, and if someone could give a heads-up to disquish between the watches by case back, that would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Not sure about watch backs and all, but if you want to buy the older Khaki Field Hamilton with the 2801-2 instead of the H-50, Hamilton still sells them directly. I reached out to customer service and got this reply...
> 
> ...


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## Rayas (Oct 18, 2020)

davidif50 said:


> So is there a definitive way to tell if my Khaki Field is ETA or H powered?


If you have the original paperwork, look for whether the serial number ends in ...29931 or ...39931. 299 is the ETA. I believe that's the best way, but there might be another.


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## scott99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Quick question about winding, how many times are you supposed to wind it ? Is it supposed to stop at a certain point where you can't wind it anymore ? Mine, it just seems like I can wind it 40-50 times and it feels like I can wind it more, there doesn't seem like it ever stops.


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## Skeptical (Sep 14, 2012)

scott99 said:


> Quick question about winding, how many times are you supposed to wind it ? Is it supposed to stop at a certain point where you can't wind it anymore ? Mine, it just seems like I can wind it 40-50 times and it feels like I can wind it more, there doesn't seem like it ever stops.


Are you sure you don't have an automatic? I have the ETA version and I don't think it even winds 30 times. Only about 10-12 if you do it daily. I imagine the H50 takes more winds, but I'd have thought it would have a definite stopping point.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scott99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah, I definitely have the mechanical.


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## scott99 (Apr 30, 2012)




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## BRN (Jan 28, 2019)

scott99 said:


> Yeah, I definitely have the mechanical.


I just received this H50 version and it does take quite a few turns to fully wind. You should find resistance eventually.


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## scott99 (Apr 30, 2012)

BRN said:


> I just received this H50 version and it does take quite a few turns to fully wind. You should find resistance eventually.
> 
> View attachment 15509879


Thanks man, appreciate it. Really like the all black as well.


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## Klean (May 7, 2020)

Thanks everyone who contributed to this thread!

It was great to help understand the details of ETA vs. Powermatic. Am deciding whether to sell a Khaki Field automatic 42mm w/ Powermatic ( An awesome watch but too big for my wrist ) and find an H705950 ( The perfect size at 40mm but was worried the ETA movement was "inferior" with power reserve of "only 40 hours". How little I knew! ).

After wearing the 42mm Powermatic for a couple months, it is Impressively consistent at about +4 seconds per day. Generally, I wear it for a day, let it sit the 2nd day, wind it and let it sit again the 3rd day, then wear it the 4th day. It sits face up when not worn.


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## Racontour313 (Feb 12, 2021)

Explorer23 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've had my eyes on the 38mm Hack watch for awhile now, and I just saw the reports that there'll be some new colours and straps coming soon. But i also saw that they are replacing the ETA 2801 with the new H-50 with a 80hr power reserve.
> 
> ...


I favor the ETA 2824 as any watchmaker can service it.
Here is what I say: by one variant with the 2824 and another variant with the H10.
One can be serviced anywhere and the other by hamilton itself.
Then you have the experience and be a devils advocate regarding performance.


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## Racontour313 (Feb 12, 2021)

c185445 said:


> It does happen apparently that a watch won't be serviced by Swatch anymore. I remember this case from few weeks ago. It's why I prefer to stick to the newer movements. I mean, I went for my Hammy because I found it perfect, didn't care so much about the movement (though I appreciate what it offers) but up to that post I read now I'm more wary about movements.
> 
> But I hope it's as you say and in 10 years the older movements can still be serviced, and that ETA/Swatch still give parts, also to other brands (do wonder how the thing is going as I remember reading stories about ETA cutting the supply), otherwise my Junghans won't be able to get serviced.


Actually there are many manufacturers of the 2824 movement. The patent expired.
I think that is why swatch goes with the H10 movement.
I am sure the swiss, japanese , chinese and Russian firms are fabricating the 2824 as the patent is now public domain. Hooray!


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## TgeekB (Nov 1, 2015)

Recently purchased a white dial and find it amazing. Losing about 1 second/day so not bad. Love the 80 hour power reserve. This will be hard to put down especially since it’s a strap monster and can be made to look different with strap changes.
OP, what did you end up doing?


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