# Umpteen Discussion Regarding Longines Swiss Watch Luxury Brand Status



## youcannotbeserious

3 years ago, I purchased a Longines Hydroconquest Automatic with the black aluminum bezel. I had previously owned a Tag Heuer Link Quartz Chronograph (too many Bourne movies), an Oris TT1, my father's Omega Deville, my grandfather's Elgin, my mother's refinished Hamilton Electric, some Seiko Divers, a Movado Museum Automatic, and a few Victorinox watches. I bought the Longines because I read that Swatch would stop selling blanks to third parties, I had been told that Longines used top grade ETA movements, and I like its history.

In the past three years, I have acquired the following pre loved watches: An EBEL Brasilia Automatic (which I still have), a Baume et Mercier Capeland S Automatic Chronograph (which I still have), a Raymond Weil Parsifal Automatic (which I quickly sold), and a Breitling Colt Automatic (which I also dumped). Although I am holding on to the EBEL and Baume et Mercier, my favorite watch is still the Longines.

Given that I have owned the above brands and I have handled many others Swiss watch luxury brands for limited periods-specifically Paneria, Rolex, Zenith, Patek Phillipe, Cartier, Breguet, IWC, JLC, Grand Seiko, Hamilton, Tissot, and Mido. I thought it would be fun to compare the various luxury Brands. 

I looked to the usual places: This site, the Rolex Forums, A Blog to Read, Chronocentric, jewelers, and Watch Time. I also found the following article, which although 7 years old, was remarkably informative: The Swiss Luxury Watchmaking Industry, A general overview and a closer look at the celebrity endorsement and sponsorship communication strategy used by the leaders; Karine Gautschi, January 2005.

My definition of luxury is anything over $500.00. The most important factors to me are, in lexical order, horology, fit and finish, and history. So without further ado, here is my rank of Longines with respect to the luxury watch brands I have been privileged enough to own and/or use:

1st Tier: Patek Phillipe, Breguet, and JLC: All are vertically integrated manufactures of watches from highly complex hand made movements, possess the best fit and finish I have ever seen, and have the proudest, most distinguished, and most continuous histories. 

2nd Tier: Rolex, Zenith, and Grand Seiko: All are vertically integrated manufactures of watches made from interesting mass made mechanical movements of top grade quality, possess outstanding fit and finish, and have long continuous histories.

3rd Tier: IWC, Omega, Breitling, and EBEL: While less vertically integrated all these companies manufacture a few watches from few chronometer grade movements, make watches with interesting modifications to existing chronometer grade movements. Each possesses outstanding fit and finish, and has a long continuous histories.

4th Tier: Longines, Baume et Mercier, Oris, and Mido: Each of these companies is an assembler of watches existing top grade movements. I believe that Longines has the most continuous history and the best fit and finish, followed closely by Baume et Mercier and Oris. I believe that Mido has the history but its fit and finish is somewhat lower.

5th Tier: Tag Heuer, Movado, and Raymond Weil: Both of these companies are assemblers of watches and primarily use versions of existing elabore grade movements. While I find the fit and finish the best on Tag Heuer, Movado possesses the least peripatetic history of the bunch. 

6th Tier: Hamilton possesses a history equal to those watches in Tier 5 and uses the same elabore grade of existing mechanical movements. However, Hamilton purposely seems to place less emphasis on fit and finish to achieve a rough and ready quality. 

7th Tier: Seiko, Tissot, and Victorinox: The majority of these watches use quartz movements. I put Seiko first because it is the most vertically integrated of the bunch.

The word on the street is the Omega and Longines are moving up, Omega with its coaxial 8500 and improved bracelets and casing, and Longines with its column wheel chronograph and improved fit and finish. Only time will tell. Regardless, I am very proud to own my Hydroconquest and see it compete so well in this rarified company.

What are your thoughts?


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## Seiko_Licker

Great post - I would just disagree with Mido as a 4th tier, I would probably move TAG to 4th and Mido to 5th tier.

Additionally, it is my understanding that the hydroconquest actually uses an elaborate grade movement, but I could very well be mistaken. I haven't actually opened mine up to check, it is just what I have read on the forums.

I believe that Longines will very likely be pushed up by the Swatch group into the 3rd tier soon, or in the next few years, as Omega is pushed to 2nd tier to compete with Rolex.

I am curious if, pushing Horology aside and just comparing fit and finish (and maybe history), how Longines would fare against those watches in the 2nd and 1st tier? I really felt like the Hydroconquest held its own next to a Seamaster in this regard, but I haven't put it next to much else. Any comments on this?


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## youcannotbeserious

Thank you for your kind post. 

WRT the hydroconquest, my information is as as follows: I have never opened it. Longines and local and local sellers in the Sleepy City (Salt Lake) have told me that it uses a top grade ETA 2824 . However, fellow WUS bloggers have told me that it uses an elabore grade. I don't know. Mine is very accurate, even with the temperature extremes we experience here. If it is elabore grade, my judgment is that the movement is incredibly well adjusted.

WRT putting horology aside, I can only confess that I caught the movement bug two years ago and can't shake it.

Thank you again.


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## CrystalBall

youcannotbeserious said:


> 3 years ago, I purchased a Longines Hydroconquest Automatic with the black aluminum bezel. I had previously owned a Tag Heuer Link Quartz Chronograph (too many Bourne movies), an Oris TT1, my father's Omega Deville, my grandfather's Elgin, my mother's refinished Hamilton Electric, some Seiko Divers, a Movado Museum Automatic, and a few Victorinox watches. I bought the Longines because I read that Swatch would stop selling blanks to third parties, I had been told that Longines used top grade ETA movements, and I like its history.
> 
> In the past three years, I have acquired the following pre loved watches: An EBEL Brasilia Automatic (which I still have), a Baume et Mercier Capeland S Automatic Chronograph (which I still have), a Raymond Weil Parsifal Automatic (which I quickly sold), and a Breitling Colt Automatic (which I also dumped). Although I am holding on to the EBEL and Baume et Mercier, my favorite watch is still the Longines.
> 
> Given that I have owned the above brands and I have handled many others Swiss watch luxury brands for limited periods-specifically Paneria, Rolex, Zenith, Patek Phillipe, Cartier, Breguet, IWC, JLC, Grand Seiko, Hamilton, Tissot, and Mido. I thought it would be fun to compare the various luxury Brands.
> 
> I looked to the usual places: This site, the Rolex Forums, A Blog to Read, Chronocentric, jewelers, and Watch Time. I also found the following article, which although 7 years old, was remarkably informative: The Swiss Luxury Watchmaking Industry, A general overview and a closer look at the celebrity endorsement and sponsorship communication strategy used by the leaders; Karine Gautschi, January 2005.
> 
> My definition of luxury is anything over $500.00. The most important factors to me are, in lexical order, horology, fit and finish, and history. So without further ado, here is my rank of Longines with respect to the luxury watch brands I have been privileged enough to own and/or use:
> 
> 1st Tier: Patek Phillipe, Breguet, and JLC: All are vertically integrated manufactures of watches from highly complex hand made movements, possess the best fit and finish I have ever seen, and have the proudest, most distinguished, and most continuous histories.
> 
> 2nd Tier: Rolex, Zenith, and Grand Seiko: All are vertically integrated manufactures of watches made from interesting mass made mechanical movements of top grade quality, possess outstanding fit and finish, and have long continuous histories.
> 
> 3rd Tier: IWC, Omega, Breitling, and EBEL: While less vertically integrated all these companies manufacture a few watches from few chronometer grade movements, make watches with interesting modifications to existing chronometer grade movements. Each possesses outstanding fit and finish, and has a long continuous histories.
> 
> 4th Tier: Longines, Baume et Mercier, Oris, and Mido: Each of these companies is an assembler of watches existing top grade movements. I believe that Longines has the most continuous history and the best fit and finish, followed closely by Baume et Mercier and Oris. I believe that Mido has the history but its fit and finish is somewhat lower.
> 
> 5th Tier: Tag Heuer, Movado, and Raymond Weil: Both of these companies are assemblers of watches and primarily use versions of existing elabore grade movements. While I find the fit and finish the best on Tag Heuer, Movado possesses the least peripatetic history of the bunch.
> 
> 6th Tier: Hamilton possesses a history equal to those watches in Tier 5 and uses the same elabore grade of existing mechanical movements. However, Hamilton purposely seems to place less emphasis on fit and finish to achieve a rough and ready quality.
> 
> 7th Tier: Seiko, Tissot, and Victorinox: The majority of these watches use quartz movements. I put Seiko first because it is the most vertically integrated of the bunch.
> 
> The word on the street is the Omega and Longines are moving up, Omega with its coaxial 8500 and improved bracelets and casing, and Longines with its column wheel chronograph and improved fit and finish. Only time will tell. Regardless, I am very proud to own my Hydroconquest and see it compete so well in this rarified company.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


Agree with most of your rankings, but would be tempted to downgrade Movado and Raymond Weil and upgrade Tissot. I think Seiko is almost impossible to place as, in true Japanese fashion, they play at a number of levels and aren't aimed at a particular niche or demographic. They don't really fit within the neatlly ordered Swiss hierarchy. I think they deserve to be placed above brands like Victorinox though, as they make everything in-house and have a lot more kudos from a horological standpoint.


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## ManMachine

This is very good to read. 

I find it interesting that so many watches are being made and sold every year, including the high end ones. Compared to automobiles, watches serve a useful function also, but they don't wear out as much. The relatively lower cost make them a more accessible item for personal statements, especially for men. 

With the onset of electronics and cell phones, the role of watches in time keeping is being diminished, so I feel that watches are mainly for look/taste. Although people may still change oil on their own car, hardly any one will service their own watches. 

Anyway, I read the wiki entry about Longines watches and it has a fascinating history. But it seems they don't gather nearly as much popularity compared to the likes of Tissot. Maybe because of the higher price, or maybe it's the design.


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## CitizenM

I think ALS should be in #1 also. Arguably Credor should be in 1 or 2. I'd put non-Grand Seiko at least in the realm of 4th tier. That includes Anantas, Brightz and so on, all of which have in house movements, lots of complications, etc, and have some pretty substantial MSRPs too (if that's relevant). But you might just put Ananta in there.


I think Nomos should be in the 4th tier too. GO might go into 3rd?

I think one of the issues with any attempt to classify ranges of products by brand is that even in a high end brand, there are low and high end stuff within that brand. Seiko is the most obvious example, but even with say, IWC, it's hard to do. The entry level stuff isn't substantially better than a Mido or Longines, if at all, but the high end stuff is a competitor for Rolex, Omega (new models), GS and so on.


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## snowpea

My list would be 1st tier - Patek Phillipe, Vacheron Constantin, Audemars Piguet, Breguet, A.Lange&Sohne, and Jaeger LeCoultre.
2nd tier - Rolex, IWC, Omega, Glashutte Original, Zenith, Ulysee Nardin, Blancpain, Cartier, and Panerai.
3rd tier - Tudor, Brietling, Tag Heuer, Nomos, Piaget, Longines, Baume&Mercier, and Ebel.
4 tier - Oris, Raymond Weil, Tissot, Hamilton,Victorinox, and Movado.
Just my opinion.


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## CrystalBall

snowpea said:


> My list would be 1st tier - Patek Phillipe, Vacheron Constantin, Audemars Piguet, Breguet, A.Lange&Sohne, and Jaeger LeCoultre.
> 2nd tier - Rolex, IWC, Omega, Glashutte Original, Zenith, Ulysee Nardin, Blancpain, Cartier, and Panerai.
> 3rd tier - Tudor, Brietling, Tag Heuer, Nomos, Piaget, Longines, Baume&Mercier, and Ebel.
> 4 tier - Oris, Raymond Weil, Tissot, Hamilton,Victorinox, and Movado.
> Just my opinion.


I would be tempted to put Zenith above Omega and Ebel at the same level as Omega. I would also say that Oris is above Raymond Weil, Tissot and Victorinox. I don't think four tiers is enough to separate the brands.


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