# How accurate are your Ball watches ?



## lvt

I made a random accuracy test some days ago, the chronograph is started when the Ball hits midnight that day. Please ignore the analog hands on the Casio as it's a separated module and it's a bit slower than the atomic time to which the Ball is synced.

After 70H the Ball gains about 2 seconds, less than 1 second per day b-)


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## timefleas

Of the thirty or so Ball watches that have graced my wrists over the last couple of years, I have one that is just about as good as atomic time (one of my trusty 40mm gen 1 Fireman), and my COSC CEs (there have been 4) all kept within COSC tolerances, usually around 3-4 seconds off per day, while the others have virtually all been better than +/-15 seconds per day, most hovering in the +/-6-8 secs off per day range--all in all pretty much what you would expect for an automatic watch that retails in the $1K-$3K range. Nothing particularly significant in either direction--I've had other automatics perform as well, some better, some worse, but all pretty much within the same range.

Therefore...?

In other words, annectdotal evidence of accuracy is OK, but says very little. It represents nothing, other than how one good (or bad) watch runs. What I find much more useful are surveys that cover a much larger sample (a hundred (or 20, or even 5) Ball watches all observed by a single person--i.e., not a chorus of "me too!" that I am sure this thread will likely invoke), or if only a few samples are included, then a much longer period of observation, with each day carefully recorded (see elsewhere in this forum for some interesting threads that have demonstrated the utility of the latter approach to juding and demonstrating accuracy).


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## Freeze

My First Mile runs about 5 seconds fast per day.

My EM2 DLC runs about 5-7 seconds slow per day. Before going off to replace the case it was running 2-3 seconds fast per day.


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## ChuckMiller

Freeze has brought in a very good point. People always get into saying their COSC watch isn't as good as they thought it would be or their certificate says it should be. The COSC tests are performed on uncased movements. Things will change after the movement is securely cased and distributed. What I take from this is that if a person cares to have it done, every watch sold could probably stand a little regulation after the owner has worn it for a little bit.


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## swampfox

my son, the electronic geek, and I were discussing Ball watches, which I love , he just cannot see the reason for a high dollar mechanical watch over a much lower priced electronic watch with a higher degree of accuracy. my reasons did not satisfy his side of the argument,,any suggestions??


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## Rhyalus

Aside from the exquisite construction of the cases and dials usually found on the higher end mechanical watches, I am awed by the fact that a mechanical is so accurate;

+/- 6 seconds (for example) / 86,400 seconds in a day is = 6.94x10^-5

This is a great feat of mechanical engineering with hundreds of years of history.

Of course, he could make the case that a quartz watch is a wonder of electrical engineering and he would be right. Mostly I find that people either "get it" or they do not. When they do not, I usually look for their weakness (like cars or shoes), and then reason out that not every love is based in logic.

R


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## swampfox

Rhyalus said:


> Aside from the exquisite construction of the cases and dials usually found on the higher end mechanical watches, I am awed by the fact that a mechanical is so accurate;
> 
> +/- 6 seconds (for example) / 86,400 seconds in a day is = 6.94x10^-5
> 
> This is a great feat of mechanical engineering with hundreds of years of history.
> 
> Of course, he could make the case that a quartz watch is a wonder of electrical engineering and he would be right. Mostly I find that people either "get it" or they do not. When they do not, I usually look for their weakness (like cars or shoes), and then reason out that not every love is based in logic.
> 
> R


 think you hit it on the head, much like explaining why I ride a Harley .


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## samanator

swampfox said:


> my son, the electronic geek, and I were discussing Ball watches, which I love , he just cannot see the reason for a high dollar mechanical watch over a much lower priced electronic watch with a higher degree of accuracy. my reasons did not satisfy his side of the argument,,any suggestions??


Try this (Assuming you son is younger and has not entered college). Tell him that when he graduates college you will give him his choice a ten (Just choosing a random time period here) year old Ball watch or a ten year old G-shock Atomic Mudman but he must choose which he will get now. I'm betting he takes the Ball so then ask him why he didn't choose the other and keep pressing for every detail. There is his answer. (If he is older then try the same logic by using your will). (Just a note I own and like both)

As to accuracy I think this is an acquired taste. It takes an appreciation to the point of hundreds of parts all working in unison and achieving a level of accuracy in adverse conditions of heat, cold, varying angles of inclination, shock, magnetic fields, and other factors. Add assembly variances and these are truly amazing against a hermetically sealed IC chip born a hundred at a time on a silicon substrate. One you keep, charish and repair if it breaks. The other goes in the trash since repair probably exceeds its value of replacement. It is like fine crystal in your mothers china cabinet versus a paper cup. I don't see people displaying those in lighted cabinets. Both do the same job but only one stays in the long run and is handed down to the next generation. Look at some of the things Tag is doing with their V4 and Pendulum movements. At this point not all that accurate but I would love to have one to stare at for hours. Actually if you look at what it took to get to this level of chips the mechanical watch is rather simple by comparison.


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## swampfox

he is much older[42] and a mathematics professor at Purdue . that said,, to him everything has the potential of being perfect! My point to him is when I'm gone, be aware of the watches value, not only my Ball but my dads Hamilton pocket watch that served him from 1948-1976 on the Wabash RR.....


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## samanator

swampfox said:


> he is much older[42] and a mathematics professor at Purdue . that said,, to him everything has the potential of being perfect! My point to him is when I'm gone, be aware of the watches value, not only my Ball but my dads Hamilton pocket watch that served him from 1948-1976 on the Wabash RR.....


Add to that the sentimental value of receiving something that has been passed down one or two generations.


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## rfranca

my moonphase is +5.09 sec. a day.


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## rfranca

swampfox said:


> my son, the electronic geek, and I were discussing Ball watches, which I love , he just cannot see the reason for a high dollar mechanical watch over a much lower priced electronic watch with a higher degree of accuracy. my reasons did not satisfy his side of the argument,,any suggestions??


Tritium (if you are talking about a Ball)


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## nimbushopper

My Fireman I on my wrist(3yrs old) +1 sec a day. When new it was +6sec; my EHC II looses 3 sec on my wrist 12hrs, but picks up 4 secs left face up 8hrs at night; my aviator is +5 a day but started out new(2yrs ago) at +15.


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## wiz83

swampfox said:


> my son, the electronic geek, and I were discussing Ball watches, which I love , he just cannot see the reason for a high dollar mechanical watch over a much lower priced electronic watch with a higher degree of accuracy. my reasons did not satisfy his side of the argument,,any suggestions??


I'm 28 years old now. My first decently priced watch was a TAG Heuer 4000 Series, which was given to me when I was 12 years old, as a birthday present. The first watch I purchased was the TAG Heuer Kirium F1 Digital, which was purchased in 2004, for myself, for my 21st Birthday. Till this very day, I regret making purchases in TAG Heuer, I do really love their design, but both are of very poor quality (both watches' pointers are corroded, very obvious, and costs a lot to replace), compared to my parents' and brother's Rolex'es ... Yes, I know Rolex'es aren't great, but it is very well appreciated in Asia for some stupid reasons ... and I refuse to purchase a Rolex myself ...

My biggest regret, is also paying $1400 for my Tag Heuer Kirium F1 Digital, which is a Quartz watch. The last 1-2 years, I've really grown to fall in love with mechanical watches ... the movements just simply .... fascinate me ... purchasing a mechanical watch, is like purchasing an ART ...

The last 1 month, I purchased 2 watches ...

Ball Engineer Hydrocarbon Spacemaster Orbital - White Dial
IWC Portuguese Automatic 7 Days Power Reserve - Stainless Steel / White Dial / Black Leather

I was very reluctant to spend the the asking price on a Ball, as it was using a generic ETA 7754 (based on 7750) movement. After doing researches, the ETA 7754 movement is available for less than $300, purchased from a Swatch Group repair center ... I don't think the casing / stainless steel / titanium / tritium on the Orbital is the remainder of the watch... and worse, the back of the case isn't transparent, and I couldn't see through it to appreciate the beauty of the movement ... however I still went ahead and purchase it, because it is a Limited Edition watch ... and I like the way the double R's are engraved on the crown, and the second hand ... and I'm now officially a Tritium-Whore ...

IWC Portuguese ... why? When I was looking for my watch purchase, I was looking for a dress watch ... something that's leather, that would make me look elegant in my suit that I wear occasionally to meetings in my company ... I ended up purchasing a Ball Orbital, which looked way too rugged ... the IWC had always been in my mind for a while ... in the end, I still decided to purchase the IWC ... I'd have to say, the greatest purchase, that had given me the highest sense of satisfaction a watch could possibly give ...

For a person to love a mechanical watch, he/she has to read into the history of mechanical watches ... just like Art ... anyone could draw ... but what makes you love what Leonardo Da Vinci / Michaelangelo / etc. did? Has to be the history behind it ... I'm not really into art right now, but that's the best I could say about it ...

Anyway, my Orbital is 11 seconds fast over a 12 days period ... I'm quite happy with it ...

My IWC is 6 seconds slow in 4 days ...

A watch that I really like is TAG Heuer's Caliber 1887, looks very nice, but again, it's a TAG ... cheap quality comes in mind after seeing all 7 TAGs in my family (2 mine, 3 brothers', 1 Father, 1 Mother) ... TAG Heuer's service center in Malaysia is also a disaster ... They replaced my 4000 Series' Gold Second Hand with a Silver-Colored Second Hand, without informing me ... I had my driver pick up my watch, and I noticed it when I got home, called the service center to complain, they said I should have filed a complaint before I signed and picked up the watch from the service center ... and since then, the new Silver-Colored Second Hand has corroded AGAIN ... there seems to be a quality control issue with TAG Heuer ... I wish there's something I could do about it ... Until Malaysia's TAG Service Center is re-organized, I'd stay away from them ...

Oh yeah, I wanted to purchase a Zenith Chrono-Master Open XXT when I was looking for a watch a month ago, I found out TAG and Zenith are now joint-company, I ultimately decided to avoid Zenith too ...  Although I really love to go with the El Primero movements' 36.6k movements ...


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## AFG08

My Night Train is +2, my Fireman B&O is +12.


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## b2s

My old 46MM Aviator runs +12 sec per day.


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## lvt

timefleas said:


> Of the thirty or so Ball watches that have graced my wrists over the last couple of years, I have one that is just about as good as atomic time (one of my trusty 40mm gen 1 Fireman), and my COSC CEs (there have been 4) all kept within COSC tolerances, usually around 3-4 seconds off per day, while the others have virtually all been better than +/-15 seconds per day, most hovering in the +/-6-8 secs off per day range--all in all pretty much what you would expect for an automatic watch that retails in the $1K-$3K range. Nothing particularly significant in either direction--I've had other automatics perform as well, some better, some worse, but all pretty much within the same range.
> 
> Therefore...?
> 
> In other words, annectdotal evidence of accuracy is OK, but says very little. It represents nothing, other than how one good (or bad) watch runs. What I find much more useful are surveys that cover a much larger sample (a hundred (or 20, or even 5) Ball watches all observed by a single person--i.e., not a chorus of "me too!" that I am sure this thread will likely invoke), or if only a few samples are included, then a much longer period of observation, with each day carefully recorded (see elsewhere in this forum for some interesting threads that have demonstrated the utility of the latter approach to juding and demonstrating accuracy).


Theorically I agree with what you said above, but this was a scenario in which only a single watch and its owner are involved, it represents very little but at least a test randomly made from time to time can tell me some technical aspect of the watch :

- The daily variation rate : the longer the test lasts the better the results will be. A simple observation over a period of 24H is enough to know how the watch acts, if the rate is positive : it runs fast, if the rate is negative : it runs slow. A watch running at -2s/day should be considered as accurate as the one running at +2s/day if it has the same daily variation rate over a certain periods of time (the variation is constant).

- The mainspring's current state, it's useful to check the mainspring's capacity every six months or so, if after a full winding the watch couldn't run for at least 40H off the wrist something must be wrong.

For an average person like me (maybe lots of others too), it's technically impossible to make more thorough tests due to the lack of times and necessary equipment. A non-COSC movement may require additional tests with different positions as its variation's constancy is much lower than a COSC certified one.


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## samanator

So to add to the data range. I'll exclude anything that I have not had for more than 45 days so no figures on the Orbital.

So My Spacemaster which is over this time period is at +3 seconds for the month (So 13 days so far) so we are less than a Second (+.23/day).

Fireman The First mile +32 for the month +2.46 sec/day

EHC Midsize +21 for the month +1.62

Night Train +17 for the Month +1.3 sec/day

EMII Diver +48 for the month so +3.69 sec/day

And my wife's Lady Arabic +7 seconds for the month so +.54 sec/day

Now keep in mind we are a pretty stable 75-85 degrees F here except for today 57 as I post this and 71 in the house. 

My routine is each gets worn at least once a week and on a winder when they are not on a wrist. Checks are against my Atomic G-Shock Riseman which gets synced each night at midnight and double checked against my atomic wall clock.

I'll report on the Orbital in a few months and continue this exercise until I am at 20 days and past that well check again in six months. I don't obsess over this unless I see an indication that service is needed. The Spacemaster Standard is a little better than the X-Lume I had which was about +1.2 seconds after 6 months. For the Orbital I'll run 15 days with the Chrono off and 15 days with it on.


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## dominicr

0 seconds since 12/31/10, worn daily, taken off at night. GMT Magnate. Set & checked with atomic clock.


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## Malandro

My EM II Diver adds 3 seconds per day, set and checked against the atomic clock.


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## Stephen Lee

EMII Worldtime Diver is bang on. If fast, just need to place it crown up during the night. If slow, it is dial up. Does not go more then +2 seconds per day.

The Fireman Night Train is about +6 seconds per day. Have not experimented on the resting positions to slow it down when not in used.


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## bg002h

My spacemaster glow loses 9 seconds per day...but...(1) I got her used and (2) i wacked my watch pretty hard (I fell on ice). Not sure when the problem occured...Still looks great though!

I figure I'll get it serviced when the time slips a bit more...she's new to me and I don't want to let her go yet!


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## epezikpajoow

My Fireman II does + 5 seconds per day, compared to the atomic clock :-!

Eric


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## krypton

my ionosphere and em2 diver is about +/- 3 sec per day


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## lvt

I don't use atomic time from Internet anymore because my watch runs very close to +/-0s per day, it's very difficult to time the watch even with a digital watch.


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## brighter

My EM II COSC Diver is the most accurate automatic I've ever owned and I've owned plenty. Set it Monday morning when arriving at work to time.gov and here it is Friday morning, it's spot on +/- 0. Unbelievable.


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## Voodoo13

My Spacemaster Glow, was bought used, but we'll cared for, and I had it serviced right after purchase. It runs + 1.5/2.0 a day. I'm well pleased. It shows little to NO positional variation. Which makes me wonder, with a little better regulation getting to zero would be possible... . I digress. 
By the way, wearing the watch is when it's at its best. I have a good winder, but due to better work schedule these days it gets a lot more wrist time: so really no need to use winder.


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## Voodoo13

On a side note, in theory, if you wore your watch everyday, would it ever require a manual winding? 
Just curious..


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## Balldy

Voodoo13 said:


> On a side note, in theory, if you wore your watch everyday, would it ever require a manual winding?
> Just curious..


No theory required - I wear my 46mm Aviator as my daily wear and I can go weeks and months without winding - and that's with a desk job.

It seems to have on average about 15 hours in reserve as when I take it off for a day to do some DIY (to save silly scratches/dings) it has usually stopped by the next morning.

Balldy


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## Voodoo13

Makes sense.


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## ~tc~

Balldy said:


> No theory required - I wear my 46mm Aviator as my daily wear and I can go weeks and months without winding - and that's with a desk job.
> 
> It seems to have on average about 15 hours in reserve as when I take it off for a day to do some DIY (to save silly scratches/dings) it has usually stopped by the next morning.
> 
> Balldy


That's not good. Should be like 40ish hours. Either the winding is not as efficient as it should be, or there's too much friction in the train causing the power reserve to not last as long.


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## wilm3

~tc~ said:


> That's not good. Should be like 40ish hours. Either the winding is not as efficient as it should be, or there's too much friction in the train causing the power reserve to not last as long.


It makes sense as desk work are usually not much movement hence the mainspring is not fully wound.


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## ~tc~

I have found my Ball watches to be quite efficient - much more so than my Hamilton with similar movement.


Posted from tapatalk


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## sarmajor

My DeepQuest is currently keeping time to within a second a day being worn at work everyday and sitting face-up on the side tale at night.
No babying this watch as I work as an Industrial Electrician / Fitter and do a bit of bashing and hammering.


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## seattle_guy

My new Trainmaster 60 Seconds has drifted maybe one second since I set it a few days ago. I was worried about messing up the time to advance the date, but the second hand kept moving when I pulled the crown out to stop 1.

I know anecdotes don't prove anything (and ultimately John Henry died). But I still enjoy seeing anachronistic technology perform well.

[EDIT: Three weeks after this post, I notice the watch is 15 seconds fast after being set about three days ago.]


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## isaiah

EM II Diver COSC Titanium gains about 16 seconds in 15 days, this digital watch itself will gain about 20 seconds a month, so after 311 hours, there is about an 11 second difference in this photo. The date on the COSC certification is September 2007.


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## Ring

swampfox said:


> my son, the electronic geek, and I were discussing Ball watches, which I love , he just cannot see the reason for a high dollar mechanical watch over a much lower priced electronic watch with a higher degree of accuracy. my reasons did not satisfy his side of the argument,,any suggestions??


He needs a lesson in Wisdom

Mechanical watches have something electronic watches never will ..... mechanical watches have "Soul"


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## samanator

Technology people have become accustomed to a throw away items regardless of cost. As an example how many people do you know get a new iphone each release(or how many PC/MAcs have you owned)? In three years they could easily buy nearly any Ball watch. We have become accustomed to TV and other devices lasting half the life of older versions, just to get a few more features. Quartz watches can offer a slew of additional feature since they are just another function on a chip or mechanism, and packaging concerns are really not an issue. Mechanicals have that they are repairable (in theory) that adds to their perceived value. Generally mechanical watches are for those who appreciate complex/uncomplicated things, plus they show a longer term value since the 2.0 version is not going to be all that much better and obsolete the previous one. Generally this type of appreciation for durability and staying power comes with maturity, but some people have the appreciation at an early age(WIS). The same argument could be made in the automotive world. Nearly any current performance car will obliterate the performance of any vintage 50-60's car yet look at the vintage prices. Quartz has to get past the stigma of low cost and disposable. Grand Seiko/Seiko seems to be doing this the best of anyone. The Astron has the techy generation shelling out over $1200 for the entry level tech and going over $2K for the models with more traditional watch features(case finish, bracelet...). These have been huge hit for them. Grand Seiko is giving the public traditional watch values with higher end quartz movements. These are being sold within 20-30% of mechanical prices, with very little discounting. It will be curious to see what Apple can do with the iwatch, but I would not be surprised to see some levels reach or surpass the near $1K mark. There will always be the throw away market for nearly anything, but now there is also a market that can drive even quartz to high dollar watches that people will pay for. 

Some high end companies made quartz options in the past when it looked like the mechanical watch would die. They abandoned the quartz versions in many cases as the mechanicals came back. Higher end ladies watches seem to still be a market for high dollar quartz, but some of this is offset by the use of gemstones and precious metal.


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## seattle_guy

seattle_guy said:


> My new Trainmaster 60 Seconds has drifted maybe one second since I set it a few days ago. I was worried about messing up the time to advance the date, but the second hand kept moving when I pulled the crown out to stop 1.
> 
> I know anecdotes don't prove anything (and ultimately John Henry died). But I still enjoy seeing anachronistic technology perform well.


Update on this: the watch slipped a minute behind over the past few days somehow ... perhaps a combination of being on the shelf and manual winding and an unusually hot summer?


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## charlespe

I got a Night Train, I think in five days it has gained nearly +30 seconds


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## apf65

My new to me EHC Spacemaster circa 2010 is running about 15 sec. slow/day. Original owner said it wasn't used much as it was in rotation with several other watches. Is this cause for concern, should I sent it for a "check-up" to see exactly whats going on? Thanks to all, watch is my first Ball btw, and is in beautiful condition. It seems to have lived a pampered life. Love the lume!!!


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## mitch57

apf65 said:


> My new to me EHC Spacemaster circa 2010 is running about 15 sec. slow/day. Original owner said it wasn't used much as it was in rotation with several other watches. Is this cause for concern, should I sent it for a "check-up" to see exactly whats going on? Thanks to all, watch is my first Ball btw, and is in beautiful condition. It seems to have lived a pampered life. Love the lume!!!


If your watch is a "Chronometer" then yes it should be checked out/serviced. A "Chronometer" should run between -4 to +6 seconds per day. Yours is running significantly slower.

My new Engineer II Arabic Chronometer has been running between +.50 to 1 second per day at the very most. Over the last 4 days it has averaged out to +0.52 seconds per day.


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## apf65

Thanks for the reply mitch, it is chrono rated, which is why I thought it should be more accurate.


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## XiL

So I've had my watch for 23 days now.

It's been on my wrist the whole time save for showering and a few nights sitting crown up.

So far it's been averaging 6.97 seconds/day fast. I know it's better than some others at 20+ sec but definitely not ±2 sec either...


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## gtuck

My two chronometer rated watches--Eng II GMT and TM Worldtime are within 2s/d at the most--usually less. My TM Power Reserve is +2-3s/d after it was regulated locally.


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## ryanww

Relatively new here and just picked up my first real watch. A ball airborne. It's running about 9 secs fast for 12 hrs whether it's sitting on my night stand or on my wrist. I know this is outside of specs. Should I continue to wear it to see if it settles in? I bought it while on vacation and there is no AD near me.


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## Balldy

ryanww said:


> Relatively new here and just picked up my first real watch. A ball airborne. It's running about 9 secs fast for 12 hrs whether it's sitting on my night stand or on my wrist. I know this is outside of specs. Should I continue to wear it to see if it settles in? I bought it while on vacation and there is no AD near me.


This was the data for my 46mm Aviator for the first 21 weeks of ownership - there certainly seems to be a running in period. For this test the watch was worn every day ( I have a desk job) and rested off the wrist at night.

This was a few years ago now and it is still my daily wear - I havn't checked it for a while but I would guess it is running appox 1 minute a month fast over the last several months.

Balldy


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## ryanww

Balldy said:


> This was the data for my 46mm Aviator for the first 21 weeks of ownership - there certainly seems to be a running in period.


Very interesting! Thank you. My watch is only 3 days old, but I've been checking every 12 hrs and it seems pretty consistent 9 secs fast. I'm not willing to send it in yet, but if it doesn't improve I will.


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## D N Ravenna

ryanww said:


> Very interesting! Thank you. My watch is only 3 days old, but I've been checking every 12 hrs and it seems pretty consistent 9 secs fast. I'm not willing to send it in yet, but if it doesn't improve I will.


If your watch is nine seconds fast each day no matter how you wear it, I'd say it is quite accurate. If the nine seconds bugs you, you could ask the watchmaker to regulate it. You will have to check Ball's specs though. In the past, some watchmakers said anything up to +15s was ok.

Regards,
dan


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## ryanww

D N Ravenna said:


> If your watch is nine seconds fast each day


It's actually nine seconds every 12 hours, so 18 fast seconds each day


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## gtuck

ryanww said:


> Very interesting! Thank you. My watch is only 3 days old, but I've been checking every 12 hrs and it seems pretty consistent 9 secs fast. I'm not willing to send it in yet, but if it doesn't improve I will.


According to the Ball site, the Airborne is chronometer rated so it should be averaging within -4 to +6s/day. If you bought the watch new, the dealer should have a COSC certificate associated with it. At least, two Ball chronometers I've purchased in the last year or two have had them. It should give you an idea of the accuracy you might expect and in what position to place the watch at night to lose some of that gain. If you bought the watch used and is not under warranty, then I'd take it to a local watchmaker with a good rep rather than sending in to Ball because of the waiting time.


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## ryanww

gtuck said:


> If you bought the watch new, the dealer should have a COSC certificate associated with it.


I did buy it new from an authorised dealer. I do have a cosc card. It's like a credit card certification no instructions.


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## Nokie

I would contact your AD about this since it is new.


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## gtuck

ryanww said:


> I did buy it new from an authorised dealer. I do have a cosc card. It's like a credit card certification no instructions.


Aaah, Ball has gone the way of Omega and Rolex--plastic cards and emblems. If you have no AD's nearby, your choice may be either sending it to an AD to forward to the Ball Service Center, or doing it yourself. Bummer in the case of a brand new watch. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, my two Ball chronometer grade watches are incredibly accurate.


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## TAYHAS

Between myself,my wife, and one of two sons, there are nine Ball watches in the family.

All run no more than six seconds fast per day, two are spot on - well one runs 1.25 seconds slow per day when worn but o when stored crown - down (Diver Freefall)

Daily work watch is Trainmaster Pulsemeter Pro - was running 6 seconds slow per day- sent in to service a sticky chrono mono pusher and also had it re worked to run faster / regulated (since it was in the shop) and now runs 5 seconds fast per day. I much prefer a watch to run a bit fast rather than slowly, especially one with a chronograph that is used daily.


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## ten13th

All my watches are accurate enough so I don't miss any appointment or meetings.


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## XiL

So due to the fact that I was timing off my cell phone, which apparently is running ~1.7 seconds slow a day, I've had to re-evaluate the timing of my Marvelight. 

Over the past 2 weeks, it's been fast between +4.5 to +6.5 spd, with an average of +5.7 spd.


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## Voodoo13

My X Lume is +2.5 seconds per day. I check constantly!


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## samanator

I broke out my Fireman B&O "The First Mile" LE this week end and takes about 3 days on the wrist to show a second lost. These actually were modified and regulated by Ball US to make this LE and it shows how well a better than average elabore grade ETA movement can be regulated . Sometimes you just get an exceptional one which appears to be the case with this one. The timing machine at Toppers confirmed this was under a second a day last year when I wore it to an event there. I've never really became obsessed with timing my watches except when I got my first Seiko Spring Drive. That took a few months to get a second off. I've had quartz less accurate. Now if I start to see big variances after a day then I notice. I just had another brand watch show up magnetized, so when it was over thirty minutes fast in one day it was pretty clear it had an issue. After demag it was at +2sec/day. That was only my second magnetized watch in 37 years of collecting.


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## isaiah

that was a beautiful response, you have an awesome brain


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## isaiah

Ball watch accuracy update
Ball Engineer II Diver COSC designation DM1022a
After first viewing this post I decided to do my own measurement and share my personal observation.
At 10:30pm on 8/19/14, I synced this Ball watch with the one of my atomic Casio G-shocks. Then for a convenient reference I started this Casio GD-350 as it is equipped with a chronograph with a 1000 hour measuring capacity. After 23 days the Ball watch is ahead of the atomic clock by 12 seconds, meaning it gains 0.52 seconds/day. During this observation period, the watch was in a winder about 60% of the time. The other 40% was normal, everyday use- for example, at school, or doing mild stuff around the house, shopping, driving, and checking out the hot girls that come into my local Starbucks.

Another Ball watch I owned previously would consistently lose 4 seconds a day. It was a DM2020a, which is not COSC certified.


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## clarken

HC Nedu -7 seconds in 5 days though I rather it be +7 


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## Kauf2947

I've read that there are certain positions you can place your watch in when you take it off (overnight for example) to slow it down or speed it up a few seconds, one way or the other. Crown up...crown down...etc. Does anyone know which way you'd rest your watch to slow it down a bit?


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## samanator

Kauf2947 said:


> I've read that there are certain positions you can place your watch in when you take it off (overnight for example) to slow it down or speed it up a few seconds, one way or the other. Crown up...crown down...etc. Does anyone know which way you'd rest your watch to slow it down a bit?


Depends on your specific movement and the power reserve in the watch. Not something we could suggest without measuring each axis over a couple days to determine what position does what on the watch. This is something you would need to determine.


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## gtuck

Kauf2947 said:


> I've read that there are certain positions you can place your watch in when you take it off (overnight for example) to slow it down or speed it up a few seconds, one way or the other. Crown up...crown down...etc. Does anyone know which way you'd rest your watch to slow it down a bit?


 It all depends on the watch and how it was last regulated--I have three Ball watches and to lose time overnight I place them--

TM Power Reserve vertically 12:00 up (12H)
Eng II Red Label GMT loses the most vertically 12:00 up (12H) but also crown up (3H) 
TM World Time loses the most vertically 6:00 up (6H) but also face down (FH)

I track each watch for a while to find the best way to place them at night which will offset part or all of the on-the-wrist gain/loss. You have to experiment and/or buy a Timegrapher to see how your watch performs in each position. 
While some will consider this advanced OCD, to me it's all part of the toy value of a mechanical watch. I am retired so knowing the day of the week in reality is not always necessary  This is just fun.


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## Rocky555

My Hydrocarbon Mad Cow is on total of -1 second during the last 7 days. :-!

Some time ago I had the Hydrocarbon Classic I which was consistent at +2 seconds per day.


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## Jazzham

My Night Train II is just over 2 years old and runs about +5/day. I did have it regulated via the AD a couple of times- out of the box new, it ran about -15 sec./day.
My Trainmaster 60 sec. II after 2 years is amazingly +2 sec/day


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## sarmajor

If you have a COSC watch then the variation in all positions tested will be on the certificate. You can then choose which way you set the watch on your side table at night to correct the daily increase or decrease.


Sarmajor


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## morrison2951

Fireman 43mm is +5 secs/day. 
Original Night Train is +4 secs/day. Both watches purchased in 2007. 

I much prefer that they run fast if anything.


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## samanator

sarmajor said:


> If you have a COSC watch then the variation in all positions tested will be on the certificate. You can then choose which way you set the watch on your side table at night to correct the daily increase or decrease.
> 
> Sarmajor


On the COSC watches over the past two years the certificate is a hologram card with no values, It does state the movement serial number. This is in line with what most larger brands give out.


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## watchnbuy

seems that ball watches will slow. n owner wish it will be fast. can sent my ball watch to service or faster it? My 1 n half year old magnate chrono run -7sec/day compare wit Seiko premier kinetic.i wish is my ball +7sec not In -neg lo.


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## Kauf2947

samanator said:


> Depends on your specific movement and the power reserve in the watch. Not something we could suggest without measuring each axis over a couple days to determine what position does what on the watch. This is something you would need to determine.[/QUOTE
> 
> I have been changing the resting position of my Marvelight over the past six months because it gains about 6 seconds a day. In the world of automatic watches this is acceptable but can I ever expect better time keeping if the watch is "broken in" and worn every day?


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## Kauf2947

I have been changing the resting position of my Marvelight over the past six months because it gains about 6 seconds a day. In the world of automatic watches this is acceptable but can I ever expect better time keeping if the watch is "broken in" and worn every day?


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## ~tc~

It depends on the watch - if the positional uniformity is very good, then you might not be able to get a "slow" position to net out the advance.


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## gtuck

As ~tc~ says, you might not find a position in which it slows to counteract some of the gain during the day when worn. If you've not tried sitting it vertically with crown to the right, you might see if this helps. Most of my watches will lose time in that position.


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## Voodoo13

Spacemaster X is a beast , +2.5 every day regardless of position.


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## timefleas

Voodoo13 said:


> Spacemaster X is a beast , +2.5 every day regardless of position.


That's odd--I don't want to appear argumentative but....very few automatic watches of any brand run exactly the same in all positions--did you ACTUALLY test your watch, say, set sideways on its crown for a day, or any other of the very specific COSC positions? I never seen a COSC certificate will all numbers identical.


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## Voodoo13

Yes, you are correct. What I should have said is…. VERY LITTLE positional variance. I've tested it. However, after I prchased the watch, it did not do as well. I had it serviced and regulated, since then it has been very good. Side note, crown up is the best position. Aside from wearing it off course.


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## Moffett

Pardon my ignorance, but I always understood that a newer watch was regulated to run a little fast. Then as the oils aged and began thickening up the watch would slow down and become more accurate. Then eventually slowing to the point of loosing time and would require a service. 


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## samanator

Moffett said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but I always understood that a newer watch was regulated to run a little fast. Then as the oils aged and began thickening up the watch would slow down and become more accurate. Then eventually slowing to the point of loosing time and would require a service.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That sounds more like a old time watchmaker practice then something used in practice at a manufacturer. Even the COSC certificates I've seen would seem to support that this practice is not used. My Fireman "The First Mile" was pretty much spot on (about 1 second slow per month) and has maintained that for 4 years now. I do not wait for operation to degrade to get something serviced.


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## Dennis128

using Ball EM2 diver first gen, about 10 sec late in 3 days


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## XiL

Kauf2947 said:


> I have been changing the resting position of my Marvelight over the past six months because it gains about 6 seconds a day. In the world of automatic watches this is acceptable but can I ever expect better time keeping if the watch is "broken in" and worn every day?


My Marvelight out of the box was about 5 sec/day fast for the first month when I got it back last august.

Being never happy, I cracked the thing open and turned the adjustment screw back a tick. Now it's averaging ~1 sec fast a day. You can always do that if +6 is not to your liking.


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## King505

My Fireman Racerwas +20/day for the first few days but has settled in at about +2/day after I let it stop and rewinded it. I am very happy with the accuracy.


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## umarrajs

-4 seconds/day.


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## Veda

samanator said:


> Add to that the sentimental value of receiving something that has been passed down one or two generations.


You know that's nothing more than a marketing gimmick. I sure won't be seen in my grandpa's yellow gold 34mm Calatrava. Kids nowadays would rather sell their heirloom Patek and get some flashy Mille or Royal Oak.

Going back on topic, my Ball Engineer II DLC has been the most accurate compared to my other ones in the winder even VS any JLC, Breguet, and Blancpain in the rotation. Most dependable with secure crown operation. I've had a Ball Engineer II GMT that I used for hardcore downhill mountain biking every weekend until it started going slow 1.5 year later. Not being broken after a single ride was already a feat. There was a time when I sold most of my high end watches and started collecting only Balls due to the gas tubes and dependability.


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## TAYHAS

Veda - Springlock baby! (At least until you start slowing down! LOL).


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## Veda

Funny after last post I got 3 more Balls but none has the springlock. Got the Magneto Valor but that doesn't help with mountain biking impacts (LOL).


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## samanator

Veda said:


> Funny after last post I got 3 more Balls but none has the springlock. Got the Magneto Valor but that doesn't help with mountain biking impacts (LOL).


The Magneto has SpringLOCK, which the Valor just has some additional logos and a few red accents. 
Welcome to BALL Watch - Magneto S


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## XiL

I got my marvelight back from service about 3 months ago and zero'ed it out with USNO master clock.

Just checked it and I'm at +2 seconds over 3 months.

It fluctuates but daily it's no more than -2 or +4 with the USNO master clock at any given time depending on my usage patterns. Sometimes, it'll stay at 0-seconds, dead on for a week or two at a time.


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## samanator

XiL said:


> I got my marvelight back from service about 3 months ago and zero'ed it out with USNO master clock.
> 
> Just checked it and I'm at +2 seconds over 3 months.
> 
> It fluctuates but daily it's no more than -2 or +4 with the USNO master clock at any given time depending on my usage patterns. Sometimes, it'll stay at 0-seconds, dead on for a week or two at a time.


Sounds like my Fireman B&O LE.


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## Veda

That's awesome, didn't notice as I haven't received the watch. But a LE watch for heavy duty offroading... hmm...


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## Jtay1975

Hello, I am new to nice watches and only have one, a Ball Fireman Ionosphere. It is about 3 years old it has been back to the AD twice because it was running fast, about 6 minutes fast every half hour. Today it happened again. That's 3 times in three years. Do I have a lemon? I can't believe a watch of this reputation would require constant adjustment. You mentioned magnetization. How does that happen? Am I causing this watch to malfunction? My life is pretty sedentary. It's not like I am playing volleyball in the thing. Any advice?


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## timefleas

MAGNETIZATION. Something you are near causes it--huge magnets in speakers, revolving drums in convey or belt machines, whatever. Get a $15 demagnetizer and correct it yourself.


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## Jlitton

This may have been answered previously but if the watch is worn often on an active person, does the watch tend to run fast or slow? I have a Spacemaster Hydrocarbon.


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## ike2112

Just adding another useless anecdotal piece of evidence

I have 3 COSC chronometer watches. My Bremont is my favourite, and most expensive watch, and on my wrist or on winder it generally sticks to chronometer standards. My Ball Trainmaster Worldtimer though... my word. I use it more as a dress watch so it can stay on the winder for 2-3 weeks without use... and be within 20 seconds. It appears to gain about 1.5 seconds a day, which is just outstanding. 
But as others have said, is likely just a fluke - the engineering mastery means it'll always be within 4 seconds a day but each individual piece could be +/- a small amount. There's every chance when I get it serviced it'll be less accurate. But for now it would give a Casio a run for its money over a couple days.


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## christam

As this old thread has been resurrected, I'll chime in. My least expensive Ball (out of three) is the Fireman Victory. I wore it more or less non-stop for two months and in that time it had gained approx. 30 seconds. That's simply outstanding accuracy - probably better than any other watch I own.


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## 13gsc13

I have an X-lume and wear it almost every day - for at least an hour - I don't have a winder - and it's within seconds a day 
Simply remarkable


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## Jlitton

Jlitton said:


> This may have been answered previously but if the watch is worn often on an active person, does the watch tend to run fast or slow? I have a Spacemaster Hydrocarbon.


I also have an Engineer Hydrocarbon Spacemaster. When I wear it everyday it loses about 4-5 seconds/day consistently. However when I wear it two days on, one day off it is less than 2 seconds a day average. Is this normal and can the loss of 5 seconds a day (this is consistent) be adjusted out?
thanks all.


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