# Current ETA Thermoline HEQ movements and watches



## MAJJ (Jan 11, 2008)

Hi,

AFIAK current ETA Thermoline HEQ movements and watches are following (I can be wrong as well):

*1. ETA 956.652* (7 jewels three-hand caliber with date),*accuracy+/- 10 sec/yr.*

Breitling models: *Breitling Cockpit Lady* (current movement Breitling 71 SQ = ETA 956.152, being updated to Breitling 77 SQ = ETA 956.652?),* Breitling Starliner* (current movement Breitling 71 SQ = ETA 956.152, being updated toBreitling 77 SQ = ETA 956.652?), *Breitling Colt Oceane* (Breitling 77 SQ). All certified by the *COSC*.

*2. **ETA 955.452* (7 jewels three-hand caliber with date + perpetual calender module?),*accuracy+/- 10 sec/yr*.

Omega models:* Omega Constellation Double Eagle Perpetual Calender *models;1513.51.00, 1213.30.00, 1513.30.00, 1213.10.00 (current movement Omega 1680 = ETA 252.511, being updated to ETA 955.452?). All certified by the *COSC*.

*3. **ETA 955.652* (7 jewels three-hand caliber with date),*accuracy+/- 10 sec/yr*.

Sinn models:*UX (EZM 2B)*, *UX SDR (EZM 2B)*, *UX GSG 9 (EZM 2B)* & *UX SDR GSG 9 (EZM 2B)*. All certified by the *COSC*. 

Breitling models: *Breitling Colt Quartz* (Breitling 74 SQ). All certified by the *COSC*.

*4. ETA 988.352* (7 jewels multifunctional analogue/digital chrono),*accuracy+/- 10 sec/yr*.

Breitling models: *Breitling Aerospace* (Breitling 79 SQ),*Breitling Aerospace Co-Pilot* (Breitling 80 SQ), *Breitling Airwolf* (Breitling 78 SQ = ETA E20.341, being updated to Breitling 80 SQ = ETA 988.352?), *Breitling Emergency* (Breitling 76 SQ). All certified by the *COSC*.

Krieger models: *Krieger Marine Chrono K6006*. All certified by the *COSC*.

*5. ETA 251.233* (27 jewels analogue chrono), *accuracy**+/- 10 sec/yr*.

Breitling models: *Breitling Chrono Colt* (Breitling 73 SQ), *Breitling Avenger Seawolf Chrono* (Breitling 73 SQ). All certified by the *COSC*.

Breitling certainly dominates HEQ watch market with its wide range of excellent watches. Especially Breitling has superior HEQ chronos in its selection. Breitling won't get out of the HEQ game anytime soon for sure with such a good watches.

Sinn has done well too with its UX models; Sinn has added two UX models to its range and probably Sinn will add more models to its UX line of watches in the future. Furthermore Sinn UXs are used in civilian Navigation Equipment Console (NEC) or in military Navigations Geräte Träger/Navigation Gadgetry Truss (NGT) diving tool instrument.

*http://www.ludolph.de/index.php?con_cat=52&con_art=51&con_lang=2&sid=t2q6eqldd2hn400g8llvebv0h6*

Omega will quite likely continue to offer its HEQ watch Omega Constellation Double Eagle Perpetual Calender in the future too. After all, Constellation Double Eagle Perpetual Calender is Omega's quartz flagship and Omega does have quite many quartz models in its watch range. Perhaps we'll see new Omega HEQs in the near future, who knows&#8230;

Krieger remains a question mark, will it continue to produce HEQ Marine chronos or will it launch new HEQ models; only time will tell&#8230;

Hope this helps a bit.


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## South Pender (Jul 2, 2008)

That definitely _does_ help! Perhaps the contents of this thread (once it has been read by others and perhaps augmented and/or amended) could be added to hedrick's excellent "Thermocompensation: Methods and Movements" sticky. MAJJ's post on Citizen HEQ eco-drive movements should also be added.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

MAJJ said:


> ...
> *2. **ETA 955.452* (7 jewels three-hand caliber with date + perpetual calender module?),*accuracy+/- 10 sec/yr*.
> 
> Omega models:* Omega Constellation Double Eagle Perpetual Calender *models;1513.51.00, 1213.30.00, 1513.30.00, 1213.10.00 (current movement Omega 1680 = ETA 252.511, being updated to ETA 955.452?)...


I do have a _déjà vu_ feeling here. Yes, it has happened before:
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=143054

I really hate to deliver the bad news again but I have no choice so here it goes: MAJJ your enthusiasm is appreciated but the quoted part is crap! I don't know where you get your info from but something is seriously wrong. With ETA it's easy, clear and there should be no misunderstanding as all the necessary technical documentations of the ETA movements are available on the net:
https://secure.eta.ch/CSP/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=3&tabid=28

It takes about a minute to find out that the quoted part of MAJJ's post is full of false info. MAJJ why don't you check it before you post it? Of course the ETA 955.452 has no perpetual calendar therefore it cannot be fitted into the Omega Constellation Double Eagle Perpetual Calendar models!:-|


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## MAJJ (Jan 11, 2008)

Hi George,

Thanks for your comments.

Calm down a bit. I have checked the info; of course I can be wrong, since nothing 100% sure in the life, but&#8230;:think:

Now,

1. I do have ETA docs + some other docs as well, 
2. I never claimed that basic 7 jewel ETA 955.452 movement has perpetual calendar module, 'cause I know it hasn't, but it can be put into 955.452, hence question mark (7 jewels three-hand caliber with date + perpetual calendar module?) see my point here, 
3. ETA 252.511 is phased out as you well know (see ETA docs), 
4. ETA 955.452 is "basic thermo" movement (see ETA docs), into which functions can be added, 
5. ETA 955.452 movement isn't used by any other watchmakers like other ETA thermo HEQ movements, Swatch Group has reserved it for its own use,
6. ETA 252.511consist of two control modules, the second one being much smaller and mounted on the underside of the normal one, the second smaller module being perpetual calendar module,
7. ETA 955.452 movement isn't phased out and it's smaller in diameter than ETA 252.511 and they both have same height, plus both use same 395 1.55 V battery, thus perpetual calendar module fits into ETA 955.452 as well, 
8. The second smaller perpetual calendar module can be put into ETA 955.452 easily,
9. Omega has no plans to discontinue Omega Constellation Double Eagle Perpetual Calender, it wouldn't make any sense at all,
10. ETA 251.232 movement is phased out and replaced by ETA 251.233 (see ETA docs) in Breitling models, it ain't harder to replace ETA 252.511 with ETA 955.452,
11. ETA E20.341 movement is phased out and replaced by ETA 988.352 in Breitling models, again it ain't harder to replace ETA 252.511 with ETA 955.452 and finally
12. There's need/demand for ETA 955.452 inside Swatch Group,Omega Constellation Double Eagle Perpetual Calender (sooner or later the stocks of ETA 252.511 movements are gone), why otherwise Swatch Group would have saved and reserved that movement&#8230;:think:

Or maybe we do see new Omega HEQs in the near future with ETA 955.452, who knows&#8230;:think:

Or maybe we all are wrong after all, who knows&#8230;*:think:*

Hope this helps a bit.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

MAJJ said:


> Hi George,
> 
> Thanks for your comments.
> 
> Calm down a bit. I have checked the info; of course I can be wrong, since nothing 100% sure in the life, but...


MAJJ, it's not personal so don't take it to your heart: I made my point and that's enough for me.

There is the wisdom that earning trust and credibility might take very long time however one can lose them in a matter of seconds...


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Thanks for an excellent topic !


> (Breitling 78 SQ = ETA E20.341, being updated to Breitling 80 SQ = ETA 988.352?)



I don't think the ETA 988.352 can replace the ETA E20.341 as it lacks some featues, such as a perpetual calendar, agenda alarm, Chrono with add/split modes (add only on the 988.352).

BTW here is a technical pdf for the E20.341 http://www.orisol.co.il/various/b-1-eta-e20-341-movement.pdf


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

It is also still on eta.ch in the customer service portal under technical documents... along with all the other calibres in recent or current production.


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## vizi (Oct 24, 2007)

MAJJ said:


> Hi,
> 
> AFIAK current ETA Thermoline HEQ movements and watches are following (I can be wrong as well):
> 
> ...


o|horror, and false infos!:rodekaart


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Eeeb said:


> It is also still on eta.ch in the customer service portal under technical documents... along with all the other calibres in recent or current production.


Ok but it looks like you need to log in and signing up looks like a rather complex process, like filling in forms ?


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

webvan said:


> Ok but it looks like you need to log in and signing up looks like a rather complex process, like filling in forms ?


No. Just click on "technical documents" on the bar at the top of a frame.


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Ok, got to that part, but can't see the Thermoline in the list and when selecting "All", neither the 988.352 or the e20-341 show up ?

Doing a specfic search for e20.341 does bring up the document I linked, no go for the 988.352 though ?


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

webvan said:


> Ok, got to that part, but can't see the Thermoline in the list and when selecting "All", neither the 988.352 or the e20-341 show up ?
> 
> Doing a specfic search for e20.341 does bring up the document I linked, no go for the 988.352 though ?


Anything that is old enough to have fallen out of inventory is not listed. There are some CDs on eBay that list some of them.

This is a failure of Eta for folks who are into 'vintage' quartz. We should all write them!! ;-)


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## Cat91 (Apr 2, 2006)

I found the technical document for E20-341 through this link without a problem. ETA does list the movement as "phased out." I suppose that Breitling has E20-341 movements on-hand for the Chronospace series and for repairs of existing B-1, Airwolf, and Chronospace units in circulation. Also, I would guess that there is a followon movement either in design or in production that would have the same or better functionality. All the same, I'm glad I picked up my Raven while I could. Breitling B78 is my favorite watch movement of all time. It has basically all the functions I want arranged in exactly the way I want, and a distinctive alarm tone that nothing else sounds like. Add a barometer function and it would be perfect. But that's just me. 

There is an error in the above description of the movement, however. According to the ETA documents, this is a 9-jewel movement, not a 7-jewel movement. That's cool: Quartz movements that are in fact jeweled as well as temperature adjusted. That's really cool. 

Miao, Cat


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## Sunwave2011 (Aug 13, 2010)

Cat91 said:


> I found the technical document for E20-341 through this link without a problem. ETA does list the movement as "phased out." I suppose that Breitling has E20-341 movements on-hand for the Chronospace series and for repairs of existing B-1, Airwolf, and Chronospace units in circulation. Also, I would guess that there is a followon movement either in design or in production that would have the same or better functionality. All the same, I'm glad I picked up my Raven while I could. Breitling B78 is my favorite watch movement of all time. It has basically all the functions I want arranged in exactly the way I want, and a distinctive alarm tone that nothing else sounds like. Add a barometer function and it would be perfect. But that's just me.
> 
> There is an error in the above description of the movement, however. According to the ETA documents, this is a 9-jewel movement, not a 7-jewel movement. That's cool: Quartz movements that are in fact jeweled as well as temperature adjusted. That's really cool.
> 
> Miao, Cat


The Thermocompensated Citizen A660 movement has no less than 17 jewels.:-!


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

MAJJ said:


> Hi,
> 
> AFIAK current ETA Thermoline HEQ movements and watches are following (I can be wrong as well):
> 
> ...


Where does the Chopard Grand Prix de Monaco Historique Time Attack MF fit in? It's an ETA Thermoline movement and quartz COSC certified. The GP Historique is for historic GP cars and it's held every second year. I understand Chopard issue a new chronograph model for each GP but I think they are not usually quartz.

As a card carrying accuracy freak, I'm only interested in the quartz one I bought late last year. It has a single digital read-out window offering the usual range of read-outs from current time, chrono, to GMT etc, accessed by turning the crown. The push-pieces are used for the chrono and setting. In many ways it's similar to the Breitling Aerospace Avantage (no "D") except that the Breitling has two windows.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

The LCD display is a separate piece of hardware. Evidently Chopard had one specially engineered and built for them. A nice bit that!

To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time Chopard has issued a quartz in their GP series.


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## DaveM (Aug 9, 2008)

Quote :-
_Omega will quite likely continue to offer its HEQ watch Omega Constellation Double Eagle Perpetual Calender in the future too. After all, Constellation Double Eagle Perpetual Calender is Omega's quartz flagship and Omega does have quite many quartz models in its watch range. Perhaps we'll see new Omega HEQs in the near future, who knows&#8230;
_
I looked on the Omega web-site and the CDEPC was not there
I also searched under 'perpetual calendar' and only found mechanical movements
*So I think that Swatch are no longer selling TC quartz watches.
*

I Googled 'Omega Perpetual Calendar Watch' and it found a page on the omega web-site
http://www.omegawatches.com/gents/constellation/perpetual-calendar/15523000
You will see that it states 'watch no longer available' in the corner
*So I think that Swatch have stopped selling HEQ watches*
Will ETA go on selling ebauches to Breitling ? If I were Breitling I would be designing my own movement


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## chemist (Jul 27, 2010)

DaveM said:


> I looked on the Omega web-site and the CDEPC was not there
> I also searched under 'perpetual calendar' and only found mechanical movements
> *So I think that Swatch are no longer selling TC quartz watches.
> *


Actually, Swatch (or, more precisely, companies under the Swatch umbrella) are still selling TC quartz watches: Certina is a member of the Swatch group, and incorporates a TC quartz movement in its DS Master: https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/my-new-certina-ds-master-433446.html 
For a complete listing of the members of the Swatch group, see: Swatch Group


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## DaveM (Aug 9, 2008)

chemist said:


> Actually, Swatch (or, more precisely, companies under the Swatch umbrella) are still selling TC quartz watches: Certina is a member of the Swatch group, and incorporates a TC quartz movement in its DS Master: https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/my-new-certina-ds-master-433446.html
> For a complete listing of the members of the Swatch group, see: Swatch Group


New to me! I believe that it uses ETA 251.233.
With TC, 27 jewels and 5 motors this looks like quite a mean movement !

But if I go to the Certina web-site there is a note 'certified COSQ' but no explanation > the ordinary punter is not going to know that it is especially accurate. After they have gone to the expense of fitting a TC movement and having it tested by COSC you would think that they would blow trumpets.
In the technology section the only 'quartz feature' worth mentioning is EOL indicator.
Very strange


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## South Pender (Jul 2, 2008)

DaveM said:


> New to me! I believe that it uses ETA 251.233.
> With TC, 27 jewels and 5 motors this looks like quite a mean movement!


27 jewels? Holy gear-train, Batman, that's more than many ETA _mechanical_ movements have. Are you sure? I'd have thought maybe 6-8 jewels. I had thought that the 17 jewels in the Citizen A660 movement put that movement at the top of the jewel pecking order!


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## DaveM (Aug 9, 2008)

South Pender said:


> 27 jewels? Holy gear-train, Batman, that's more than many ETA _mechanical_ movements have. Are you sure? I'd have thought maybe 6-8 jewels. I had thought that the 17 jewels in the Citizen A660 movement put that movement at the top of the jewel pecking order!


Just what I thought >> but thats what ETA say (http://www.eta.ch/).

But there is a lot going on
Coaxial hands for :-Hours (12) ,Minutes (60) ,Chrono seconds (60) and chrono minutes (60)
Sub-dials for seconds (60), chrono hours (12) and chrono 0.1 seconds (1)
As well as date-display

Flatline 251.262 which looks exactly the same, same functions, same number of jewels and same number of motors is on the web for 90 dollars !


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