# My life with a Seiko SBCM023



## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

New to this forum so - I apologise if some of these points seem futile but humour a noob!

I am fed up with consuming watches year after year - have had several lowish end types but they have all gone their own way one way or another, water ingress after shower/swim/snorkel, lost (3x due to broken strap) etc etc. Had one of the first Quartz Heuer divers watches bought in Singapore in 1980 but it eventually went kaput soon after official service center in Sydney assured me that it should and would not have a screw down crown, then repaired it (removing the screw down feature!) despite me reassuring them that it did indeed have such a feature from new 10 years before! It was then stolen after a break in!! I digress. To sum up, I just want to buy a good quality watch that will match the following criteria.

What I am trying to find is a watch that will address all the following needs.

- Robust
- High reliability
- Preferred service interval more than 5 years
- Availability of parts in 10 -15 years (or ability to purchase complete new movement as a spare!)
- High accuracy +-20secs pa or less
- Battery life (if needed) more than 5 years
- Waterproofing suitable for snorkelling to depths of 4m and immersion in Hot spas
- Perpetual calendar
- Ability to add or subtract whole hours only when travelling to different time zones
- Mid size 38-40mm overall case diameter
- Bezel case for diving not required
- Strong synthetic moulded rubber strap
- Non flashy (read discrete) case design 
- Titanium case preferred
- Minimum 3 year international warranty 
- Budget up to US$2000

I have perused a few forums and the corresponding links to seiko and citizen high end quartz watches but it takes hours and hours to checkout all the above points so I am posting to this forum in the hope that someone may be able to point me towards a shortcut method of finding this watch on the internet. I am not wedded to Japanese watches. Thanks in anticipation of your reply.


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Hi overlandr. Welcome to the forum!

Others may have different thoughts on euro possibilities. I'll start things off though by suggesting a "The Citizen" Chronomaster. It has most or all of the properties you're looking for. Very robust (100 meters water resistant, for instance). Very accurate at 5 secs/year. Has perp. cal. Can adjust the hour hand only. Can be had in titanium. Caveats as follows:

battery rated for five years but not longer
some would call the current design a bit flashy, but it's still pretty simple
have to buy your own rubber strap
price is pretty close to your budget, if not a bit over

Here's a link:

http://watch.citizen.co.jp/the-citizen/

You can use Babelfish to translate it.


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## Frode (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Seiko Alpinist?


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Hi Bruce

Thanks for the suggestion - yes I saw this already. Parts for quartz watches seem to be a bit of an issue many years (+5-10 after EOL) for quartz watches. Is this one of the reasons why people hanker after automatics ? Am concerned about investing that sum and then after say 10 years parts becoms unavailable! What are the chances of being able to source a complete new movement only for a lower end Seiko quartz?



Bruce Reding said:


> Hi overlandr. Welcome to the forum!
> 
> Others may have different thoughts on euro possibilities. I'll start things off though by suggesting a "The Citizen" Chronomaster. It has most or all of the properties you're looking for. Very robust (100 meters water resistant, for instance). Very accurate at 5 secs/year. Has perp. cal. Can adjust the hour hand only. Can be had in titanium. Caveats as follows:
> 
> ...


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



overlandr said:


> Hi Bruce
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion - yes I saw this already. Parts for quartz watches seem to be a bit of an issue many years (+5-10 after EOL) for quartz watches. Is this one of the reasons why people hanker after automatics ? Am concerned about investing that sum and then after say 10 years parts becoms unavailable! What are the chances of being able to source a complete new movement only for a lower end Seiko quartz?


As it happens, Citizen guarantees that they will have parts for the The Citizen for the life of the owner. The only possible hitch is that you need the official owner's card. Can't answer on the other question. Maybe someone else could chime in. A general comment I'll make though is that quartz watches will work for decades. Not uncommon to hear of watches still working after thirty years.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

I have several watches with ETA quartz movements that are over ten years old and parts are still available.

Even if they weren't, ETA tends to keep the hand-fitting and dial feet locations static, so newer movements can be swapped out with no modifications.

Note: A new quartz movement will cost less than (or in the case of chronographs or other complicated movements, equal too) a service of an automatic.


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## bobechs (Feb 27, 2006)

*You say you want>>*

1. High accuracy- in effect that means thermo-compensated quartz or similar

2. Perpetual calendar

3. High maintainability- in effect a major brand with service organization

4. Long battery Life

5 Etc.

I say you have four viable brand choices. Citizen, Seiko, Longines and Omega. The first two have been dicussed in this thread, so I'll comment on the Swiss contenders.

The Longines VHP, which has been much-dicussed here, uses the Thermoline ETA 252.611 movement, L546 to Longines. Lithium battery gives ten years between changes, perpetual, classic good looks in steel, with dial options. Somewhat hard to find. Damned hard to find, in fact. Out of production, it looks like. Damned shame. Discrete whole hour adjustment thru a push-crown.

Omega Constellation and Constellation Double Eagle Perpetuals. Same movement as the Longines, except silver-oxide battery, good for five years. ETA 252.511 a/k/a Omega cal. 1680. Styling is more out-there, steel or tu-tone. Get your own rubber strap. Widely available, and discounted below your price ceiling. Same push-crown hour adjustment as Longines. Also watchmaker rate-tunable in .33 second per month increments.

If you are willing to give up perpetual calendar (and I would not, if I were you) there are a number of Breitling ETA Thermoline based watches with blingy styling, maybe even some titanium. There are a number of Breitling enthusiasts on this forum who can guide you, if you move your sights to that target area.

Good Luck.


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## stockae92 (Feb 10, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



Frode said:


> Seiko Alpinist?


i think of that too

put on a _Strong synthetic moulded rubber strap_ and you are good to go


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## baristaman (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



Frode said:


> Seiko Alpinist?


Ditto to that. I own the Alpinist, The Citizen, and Longines VHP. It sounds like you want to have one watch that will do everything, and the Alpinist would be my pick. I got mine from Higuchi-inc.com, and it has everything you've asked for except for the rubber strap, which of course, you can always buy separately and add on. Actually, I'm not positive right now about the warranty length, but I have yet to hear about an issue with a quartz Seiko (except for some of the earlier Kinetics). I use mine as a travel watch that can do double duty as a sport or dress watch.

What's more, at about US$350, you could buy five of them with money left over, with your budget.

http://www.higuchi-inc.com/sbcj019.html

My 'The Citizen' is much more watch and is one of my very favorite watches. It also meets your criteria, but as I didn't purchase it new, I'm not sure if is available in titanium within your budget.

I like my Longines VHP Flagship, but with only a 30m water resistance, I take it off when I wash my hands, much less snorkel. I understand that they have 100m and 200m WR models, but not with perpetual calendar.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



baristaman said:


> ...I really like my Longines VHP Flagship, but with only a 30m water resistance, I take it off when I wash my hands, much less snorkel. I understand that they have 100m and 200m WR models, but not with perpetual calendar.


My Longines Conquest VHP Perpetual Calendar (9mm thick) is rated WR 100m. There is an other version of the Conquest VHP Perpetual Calendar (12mm thick) that is rated WR 200m.


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## baristaman (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



ppaulusz said:


> My Longines Conquest VHP Perpetual Calendar (9mm thick) is rated WR 100m. There is an other version of the Conquest VHP Perpetual Calendar (12mm thick) that is rated WR 200m.


You're right, ppaulusz. The later Conquests, from 1996 to 2002, were perpetual calendar. I was thinking of the earlier ones.

The Conquests didn't come readily to mind because he had mentioned the rubber strap. I believe all the VHP Conquest models have an integrated bracelet, correct me if I'm mistaken.

In any case, the question of acquiring any model of Longines VHP is likely academic, as someone mentioned before. All the models are out of production and are very difficult to find, unless they are used.


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## Time (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Hi,
Did the Longines VHP have an integrated bracelet? Does the Omega Double Eagle Contellation? Does anyone know?
Thanks


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



Time said:


> Did the Longines VHP have an integrated bracelet?


"Longines VHP" is very general. Please be more specific.


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## baristaman (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



Time said:


> Did the Longines VHP have an integrated bracelet? Does the Omega Double Eagle Contellation? Does anyone know?


Hi, Time. Long time no hear from.

Longines have put the VHP movement in the Flagship and Conquest models. The Longines Flagship VHP does not have an integrated bracelet. I've worn mine on several 18mm standard straps now. The VHP Conquests I've seen, and I'm making it clear that it's a VHP Conquest since Longines have applied the Conquest name to a large number of watches for at least the last couple of decades, have had an integrated bracelet. I would love to be proven wrong, a VHP Conquest on strap would make a nice sport watch.

All of the current production Omega Constellations, Double Eagle and otherwise, have integrated bracelets.


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## Vince (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

A make that has not been mentioned so far and which meets many of your design criteria is the Breitling Quartz Colt watch. It's worth a look: high readibility, water resistant, robust, accurate. I own a Longines VHP Flagship Perpetual Calendar, but admire the Breitlings.

Vince


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## Vince (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Oooooops. I see Bobechs did mention the Breitling make. Sorry.

Vince


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## Time (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



baristaman said:


> Hi, Time. Long time no hear from.
> 
> Longines have put the VHP movement in the Flagship and Conquest models. The Longines Flagship VHP does not have an integrated bracelet. I've worn mine on several 18mm standard straps now. The VHP Conquests I've seen, and I'm making it clear that it's a VHP Conquest since Longines have applied the Conquest name to a large number of watches for at least the last couple of decades, have had an integrated bracelet. I would love to be proven wrong, a VHP Conquest on strap would make a nice sport watch.
> 
> All of the current production Omega Constellations, Double Eagle and otherwise, have integrated bracelets.


Hi Baristaman, Thanks for the help and good to hear from you too. It is a shame to know that from both companies. I think if anybody is going to pay for a high end watch it should not have an integrated bracelet. A high end watch company should give an owner options.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Hi All,

Thank you for all your various responses, inputs and ideas. I looked at various sites and came across such links as

http://80calcs.web.ool.fr/Navigation/Astro/Chronometer.html

and

http://bobthayerjr.com/wb5apd/quartz-accuracy.html

for general information on more accurate quartz watches. It became apprent that I did not have to spend a lot of money to get an accurate watch that met most of my criteria. I came across the Seiko Prospex SBCMxxx series that seemed Ok and then found (via one of the many watch forums!) a dealer in Taiwan who had a new SBCM023 for sale for US$170 shipped by regd. post.










Both Higuchi and Ebay were more expensive. Paid by Paypal and watch arrived within a week in a new case with instructions and non-validated gtee card and booklet. Watch appeared brand new and the battery replacement date as indicated by the scale on the back and corresponding mark is approximately October 2012. The movement is 8F35-00A0 D.

http://www.ittc.ku.edu/~jgauch/watch/diver_quartz/SBCM023.html

The second hand hits the second markers well. My only complaint so far is that there are no minute markers immediately under the minute hand; this results in sometimes slower reading of the time to get around parallax error.<|

In terms of my original needs, they have been broadly addressed as follows in red:

- Robust (Unknown but am hoping that Quartz is more robust/reliable than mechanical)
- High reliability (As above)
- Preferred service interval more than 5 years (as above) 
- Availability of parts in 10 -15 years (or ability to purchase complete new movement as a spare!) (probably poor but offset by price of watch)
- High accuracy +-20secs pa or less (yes)
- Battery life (if needed) more than 5 years (exceeded as battery life ~ 8 years)
- Waterproofing suitable for snorkelling to depths of 4m (OK as case WP to 200m) and immersion in Hot spas (may affect accuracy for a few hours?)
- Perpetual calendar (yes)
- Ability to add or subtract whole hours only when travelling to different time zones (no):-(
- Mid size 38-40mm overall case diameter (Yes)
- Bezel case for diving not required (with bezel)
- Strong synthetic moulded rubber strap (St. steel will be changed to synthetic <not rubber as it perishes>)
- Non flashy (read discrete) case design (bit flashy)
- Titanium case preferred (no - St. Steel)
- Minimum 3 year international warranty (12 months)
- Budget up to US$2000 (cost US$170!);-)

I want to change the strap for something lighter and less flashy. I found this excellent site run by Ken Danks:

http://www.thestrapshop.co.uk/

and have just received the following "conqueror" strap (with spring bar fitment tool) as below:










My only remaining predicament is what is the best _method_ of removing the existing band (with straight spring bars - see below) and then fitting the new strap as above with supplied swiss flanged spring bars. I don't want to damage the lugs or spring bars at all. Any advice welcome....!


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Congratulations! That Seiko is an excellent value:-! !


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

I second George's comment. Excellent watch. Excellent value. You really did your homework! :-!


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## norm (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Excellent read and good advice all around, but there is one note to add. I think you will find that using your watch in a spa is not a good idea. The high temperature of the water and its ability to rapidly transfer that heat to your watch will cause the various materials to expand quickly at different rates. So the waterproofing gaskets and such are negatively affected. I think you will find that Seiko has a disclaimer warning against spa usage. Also the chemicals used in spas are not watch friendly. Don't want to rain on your parade....the spa problem is true for all brands.

You made a great choice! Enjoy it!


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

I thought I'd update this post with some indicative accuracy figures. I thought I'd use this link

http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/index.html

Compared the above time to that of my also internet linked pc and it appears to be within 0.2 secs.

When compared to the above URL, my still newish SBCM023 watch is currently running 3 seconds fast . I wear it all the time including through a shower in the morning. Will try and update this regularly. Is the 8F35 thermocompensated?


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## northerner (Dec 14, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

How is the 8F35 movement different from the 8F56? Is it just GMT feature on the 56?

thnx


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## Time (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



overlandr said:


> I thought I'd update this post with some indicative accuracy figures. I thought I'd use this link
> 
> http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/index.html
> 
> ...


 No it is not. It has an air of thermocompensation because of its uniquely cut quartz crystal. You can read this from the thread at the top of the forum.


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## Time (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



northerner said:


> How is the 8F35 movement different from the 8F56? Is it just GMT feature on the 56?
> 
> thnx


 The 8F35 is only in the perpetual calendar diver watch. Moreover, the battery last for 8 years compare to the one in the 8F56 that last for 10 years. They are both lithium batteries. Now, the answer to your second question is yes. The 8F56 movement is the only one with the GMT feature. There are also the 8F32 and 8F33 but they do not have a GMT feature and are found in dressier watches. The batteries last 10 years. One is with a date and the other is a day/date. Both with perpetual calendar.


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## northerner (Dec 14, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



overlandr said:


>


This case looks exactly like the SKX007. Do they share the same dimensions?

peace


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Thanks - 19xMhz crystal from memory. Anyone know how they measure the frequency?


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



overlandr said:


> Thanks - 19xMhz crystal from memory...


_192*kHz*_ crystal.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



ppaulusz said:


> _192*kHz*_ crystal.


 Oops/sorry/thanks!


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



overlandr said:


> Oops/sorry/thanks!


No worries, mate!;-)


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## northerner (Dec 14, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

overlandr: How's the accuracy holding up on the SBCM023? On track for 20sec/yr?

In regards to the perpetual - does it also account for leap years? If so how do you know what year you're setting it to?

cheers


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



northerner said:


> overlandr: How's the accuracy holding up on the SBCM023? On track for 20sec/yr?
> 
> In regards to the perpetual - does it also account for leap years? If so how do you know what year you're setting it to?
> 
> cheers


my watch is now ~5 secs fast. Re the calendar, download the manual online and it shows the way of checking - mine was fine. Presume factory set for Japanese market.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Just changing time back an hour for summer time. Prior to the change its 8 seconds fast. After changes its about 1.5 seconds slow. Reason for the slight innacuracy is I give priority to setting of the minute hand as its more important for reading the time than a few seconds delay.

Reference used is (naturally!) at seiko jp.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How to make shiny st/steel matt....*

Re the Seiko in this thread, does anyone have an idea as to how to convert the polished finish of the stainless case into a more matt finsh? Acid perhaps? I am hoping that I can just dab some acid or somilar onto the casing and then wash it off.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

There are two ways to achieve a matt finish,

1) grit blast, or

2) brush with an abrasive.

Grit blasting (with glass, fine sand or aluminum oxide) yields a fine satin finish quickly and simply, but requires specialized equipment.

Applying a brushed finish does not require specialized equipment, but does require patience and a bit of skill to get a uniform finish. (The big trick is to get all the scratches to be parallel and uniform, otherwise it will like a bad sandpapering job.)


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## Sgian Dubh (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

I'd get the Omega Seamaster Pro Quartz for that money. Misses a few requirements, but overall a great, sturdy watch that will be supported for years to come.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



overlandr said:


> Just changing time back an hour for summer time. Prior to the change its 8 seconds fast. After changes its about 1.5 seconds slow. Reason for the slight innacuracy is I give priority to setting of the minute hand as its more important for reading the time than a few seconds delay.
> 
> Reference used is (naturally!) at seiko jp.


Another update today on this piece reveals a error of +12.5 seconds against the same seiko standard. I have worn the watch 24/7 except when taking a shower. Therefore, since Late March a period of ~4.5 months the gain has been 12.5 + 1.5 = 14 seconds. This results in a mean gain of 3.11 seconds/month.


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## rex (Feb 12, 2006)

*Re: How to make shiny st/steel matt....*

Find a piece of purple Scotchbrite pad. Always rub in same direction. That will certainly 'brush' up the polished suface.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



overlandr said:


> Another update today on this piece reveals a error of +12.5 seconds against the same seiko standard. I have worn the watch 24/7 except when taking a shower. Therefore, since Late March a period of ~4.5 months the gain has been 12.5 + 1.5 = 14 seconds. This results in a mean gain of 3.11 seconds/month.


Another update on loss/gain of this watch due to daylight saving. Prior to changing the time today the watch was running 20 seconds fast. After the change the watch, was synchronised to seiko-watch.co.jp at ~ 0.5 seconds slow. I will update this thread after I've owned the watch for 12 months to review its performance.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*



overlandr said:


> Another update on loss/gain of this watch due to daylight saving. Prior to changing the time today the watch was running 20 seconds fast. After the change the watch, was synchronised to seiko-watch.co.jp at ~ 0.5 seconds slow. I will update this thread after I've owned the watch for 12 months to review its performance.


Interesting thread.

I note http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/index.html is running approximately 0.5 seconds slow here in the states when compared to time.gov.

Time.gov attempts to correct for network lags before displaying the time. The reason the site does not immediately display the time when brought up in the browser is the load and then operation of the java applet that does this error correction.

seiko-watch.co.jp displays the time almost immediately. So I doubt it has any lag correction.

I have seen network lags of multiple seconds, depending on traffic. (Right now at 2am on a Sunday morning, the lags are at a minimum and they still account for 0.5 seconds.) So be careful which time standard you use... it may induce a substantial part of the error you think you are measuring.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Erratic sweeping of the second hand.*

Update. After buying the watch new in late 2006 from a Taiwanese trader, I early yesterday noticed that the date was set at the day before. I then realised that the second hand was sweeping unusually - a 2 sec sweep with a hesitation half way. The time that it has kept has been good today AFAIK.

Looking at the time again right now, the date is now correct and the second hand is sweeping normally.

Can someone please confirm what this means? I understand it may indicate battery condition. The battery replacement mark on the rear is indented adjacent to the first half 2012.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: Erratic sweeping of the second hand.*



overlandr said:


> Update. After buying the watch new in late 2006 from a Taiwanese trader, I early yesterday noticed that the date was set at the day before. I then realised that the second hand was sweeping unusually - a 2 sec sweep with a hesitation half way. The time that it has kept has been good today AFAIK.
> 
> Looking at the time again right now, the date is now correct and the second hand is sweeping normally.
> 
> Can someone please confirm what this means? I understand it may indicate battery condition. The battery replacement mark on the rear is indented adjacent to the first half 2012.


I just set up a Citizen. They use second hand sweeping variations to indicate where you are in the setup process... and to tell you you have a low battery. I'd get the movement docs and see if they tell you anything.


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## junlon (Dec 30, 2007)

*Re: Erratic sweeping of the second hand.*

Below is the info taken from 8F Owner's Instructions. Have you put your watch in low temperatures? (Not sure how low is very low.)

_* If the watch is left in *very low temperatures,* the second hand may temporarily start *moving at two second intervals* and *the date does not change* to the next. When the watch returns to normal temperature, however, this condition will be corrected and the correct date will be displayed on the next day._


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Update .... The watch continues to do two sec sweeps. The date has not moved since the 5th June. It has gone a bit colder here BUT I wear the watch 24 hours so low temperature should not be a problem. I am assuming this is thus low battery issue. Will update later.....


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## shandy (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

Hmm, interesting, I notice you are in Australia so I do not think the temperature is the problem as it would have to be extrem cold to get the watch doing what is describe (unless you have popped over to Antartica for a few days:-d) 
Sounds like a battery, I know it says replace the battery in 2012 but I have had watches where for some unkown reason the battery has had a shorter life. I am sure the boffins who post on this forum could give a reason for that.

First and cheapest option if I were you would be to go to a watch maker and have them install a new battery and see what happens!


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## fstshrk (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: How do I find the watch that I seek..........*

overlandr, check the back of your watch. The battery change interval should be marked on the case back. Mine is marked 17 indicating a 2017 battery change date.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*.*

.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Big 2009 Update, First Battery Change!*

Well, I've had the watch for 2.5 years and have just had the battery changed so here's a bit of an update with detailed notes for those interested in life with the 8F35 and the SBCM023.

*Operation whilst on Low Battery*



junlon said:


> Below is the info taken from 8F Owner's Instructions. Have you put your watch in low temperatures? (Not sure how low is very low.)
> 
> _* If the watch is left in *very low temperatures,* the second hand may temporarily start *moving at two second intervals* and *the date does not change* to the next. When the watch returns to normal temperature, however, this condition will be corrected and the correct date will be displayed on the next day._


I wear the watch 24/7 so it never gets cool. The seiko manual indicates that 'very low temperatures' mean less than 5C. As it never gets to that temperature where I live, low temperatures can be excluded as a factor in its operation since I've owned it.

From Seiko Manual - * If the watch is left with the crown at the first or second click, if the calendar checking function is used frequently, and/or if the watch is left in temperatures outside the normal temperature range (5° C ~ 35°C or 41° F ~ 95° F) for a long time, the battery life may be less than the specified period."

My watch went into low battery or 2 sec sweep mode on 7th May. Whilst it was in 2 sec sweep mode, the calendar dial did not move. When it resumed normal mode, the calendar dial would indicate the correct date. Intermittently, between the 7th and the 5th June, the watch would operate in either normal or 2 sec sweep mode changing every 1-4 days. Between the 5th June and 15th June, it only operated in 2 sec sweep mode with the calendar remaining on 5 (th June). Finally, on the 15th June, the battery was changed. Seiko recommend that the battery is changed in less than 2 weeks after the initial low battery indication - see below.​
From Seiko Manual - When the second hand starts moving at two-second intervals instead of the normal one-second interval, replace the battery with a new one as soon as possible. Otherwise, the watch will stop operating in two weeks.​
I've left it run in intermittent low battery mode from the 7/5 to 15/6 or nearly 5 and half weeks. This experience clearly indicates Seiko is being conservative in the above advice which of course, is not an altogether bad thing.

*Original Battery Life*



fstshrk said:


> overlandr, check the back of your watch. The battery change interval should be marked on the case back. Mine is marked 17 indicating a 2017 battery change date.



Thanks, I saw your post here re that 2017 ref. Based on the following experience, I'd hazard a guess that your watch is quite fresh stock sourced by Higuchi due to eight years hence until your battery needs changing. I've already made ref to the 2012 'indicative original battery change date' in this thread. The actual marked date on my watch back is indicated by a single dot approx 35% of the way along between the 12 and 13 markers, which equates to April 2012. For those who don't have access to this type of diver's watch, see page 18 in this link to the 8F35 User manual. Seiko recommend marking a second dot on the watch back to indicate when the second battery would need changing. Based on my experience, I won't be making such a mark because battery life can vary siginificantly. I have had to replace the battery just 3 years early indicating that its only given 5 years of service against manufacturers nominal life of 8 years. This is somewhat dissappointing but I remain hopeful that it'll be another 8 years until the next change with the law of averages being on my side!​
*Finding a Watchsmith in Sydney*

Once I realised that the watch behaviour was due to a low battery, I realised that I needed a battery change and fast. I first tried Seiko in Sydney at their head office for Australia. I checked their pricing for the battery change and called them and had a chat with one of the lady in service. I don't use the watch for diving so didn't plan on a water test at all. Anyway, after getting advice from a colleague, she told me that, for a battery change, the 8F would actually need a _full service_ due to the calendar reset issue ie a cost of AUD166 taken from their current price list. This would cover:​
Major repair charges cover movement, service/repair or replacement including all parts* required, seals, battery and water resistant pressure test where applicable. (*Glass, dial, bezel, case, band and band parts are not included.) 

Add another $20 for postage either way and its approaching AUD190! :roll: Well, the watch only cost around AUD250 all up delivered from Taiwan so this service was just not going to happen.b-) I don't imagine that a quartz movement needs a major service often as it has fewer mechanical parts. _On that point, what type of major service would a movement of this type need and how frequently? _​
I trawled this forum and came across this post. Fu is a very helpful watchsmith who works on his own from a small workshop and actually specialises in refurbishing dials as an adjunct to normal watch work. He's the epitome of the small busines guy whom I was very happy to use. He's in the Sydney CBD on 02 - 9267-1826.​
*The Battery Replacement etc*​
When I first indicated that I had an 8F35 perpetual calendar, I could tell Fu realised battery replacement may not be an altogether straight forward process. Initially, he indicated that he may need to keep it for 1-2 weeks in order to ensure the correct reset should it be needed. I pointed out that the battery changeover should ideally be completed in less than 3 minutes in order to preserve the P/Cal.​
Anyway, I was there when he put the new CR2412 Seiko battery (from HK) in which took only about 2 minutes. I left it with him as he had a contact to call re ensuring the P/cal was ok. I got a call this AM saying all was ok. When I picked it up, I decided on a water test and he showed me how it was done in the two stages - air first at HP then 3 minutes later, dipping the case into the water followed by pressure reduction thus allowing any previously trapped air to expand via trail of tiny bubbles. In my case, there were none from the back or winder and just a handful for 2 seconds from the bezel/crystal interface. I was intrigued as to the low tech nature involving a car foot pump. The initial test pressure was 6kg/sq.cm which equates to:​
6 kilogram-force/square centimeter = 5.883 99 bar​
The water resistant rating of the watch in 200m or nominally 20 Bar. Based on this test and the design of the watch, I'll have no hesitation in using the watch for snorkelling at any stage in the future. Total cost for all of this work and the battery was $30!​
*Date of Manufacture?*​
I purchased the watch at a discount so its reasonable to assume that its sat on various shelves for some time awaiting me - the discount customer! From the above figures, I'd assume that it was made and finally assembled early 2004 thus allowing a further 8 years before its first battery change. I bought it in late 2006 so its possibly had a couple of years on those shelves!​
Being curious and armed with a Serial number of 300107, I've sourced the infamous seiko production date calculator here but it returns:​
'Sorry, your movement is not in our database yet.'​
I then found this source that would indicate an actual production date of October 2003 with a running number of 0103. This indicates that Seiko estimate the first battery to last from 10/2003 to 04/2012 ie 8 1/2 years. In my case, the battery actually lasted from 10/2003 to 05/2009 ie 5 1/2 years. Perhaps this reduction in actual battery life is partially due to only having been worn for the 2 1/2 years and not much longer.​
http://www.seiko.it/support/ib/pdf/SEIKO_8F35.pdf​


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: Big 2009 Update, First Battery Change!*

Thank you for the update!


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

I have taken some action to determine accuracy over the past year and will post the results here shortly. They involve having taken some still photos at 6 monthly intervals (coinciding with changes in daylight saving) of simultaneous internet based virtual clocks/timers on these websites: Rolex, Seiko, Citizen, my PCs clock and time.gov together with the Prospex's time. I have a DSL internet connection. I would be interested to know views on this simple method of checking accuracy.


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## Catalin (Jan 2, 2009)

overlandr said:


> I have taken some action to determine accuracy over the past year and will post the results here shortly. They involve having taken some still photos at 6 monthly intervals (coinciding with changes in daylight saving) of simultaneous internet based virtual clocks/timers on these websites: Rolex, Seiko, Citizen, my PCs clock and time.gov together with the Prospex's time. I have a DSL internet connection. I would be interested to know views on this simple method of checking accuracy.


It is FAR less time-consuming than the full video method but with a single picture the error margin will be almost one second (and that only if you force a time-sync on the internet just before taking the picture) - IMHO very acceptable at 6 months and also can act as a 'memory helper' on the long term for rate evolution.

Of course that there are very similar (more accurate but slightly more time-consuming) methods described in the sticky:

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=382752

The major advantages of the video method is not only related to accuracy but IMHO also to the fact that for a week you can easily 'enforce' an almost constant temperature (either only room temperature or only wrist-like temperature), and by knowing those you have a MUCH better idea where the average over more time can go - see also:

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=347912


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## Catalin (Jan 2, 2009)

*Re: Big 2009 Update, First Battery Change!*



overlandr said:


> ...
> I then found this source that would indicate an actual production date of October 2003 with a running number of 0103. This indicates that Seiko estimate the first battery to last from 10/2003 to 04/2012 ie 8 1/2 years. In my case, the battery actually lasted from 10/2003 to 05/2009 ie 5 1/2 years. Perhaps this reduction in actual battery life is partially due to only having been worn for the 2 1/2 years and not much longer.​
> http://www.seiko.it/support/ib/pdf/SEIKO_8F35.pdf​


It might have also been that it was stored in low temperatures during the initial years ... you'll know more when changing this second battery ;-)


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: Big 2009 Update, First Battery Change!*

I'm still trying to locate a supplier of the bezel inserts for this model. In particular the 12hr GMT version.

On the strap front, the original ca 2006 (!) nylon strap finally started getting too 'furry' and was starting to show its age.









I went back to same supplier at http://www.thestrapshop.co.uk and found they've sourced a much better replacement of their previous conqueror strap as shown when new above..

The replacement strap is termed "TSS 'Tactical 2' double thickness nylon watchstrap" which should satisfy any latent quasi-military pretences.

Seen below, 









Or close up showing that quality of the weave...









Or on another seiko...










Anyway, I'm happy with it so far. And the watch of course, it really hasn't missed a beat. Still Reliable and accurate and in this respect, without question, the very best watch I've ever owned . The only thing I've been meaning to do are some serious accuracy tests using the video method as outlined in HAQ.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: Big 2009 Update, First Battery Change!*

The watch started the two second sweeps again this morning and didn't latch the date dial forward overnight. It reverted back to normal operation this evening and the date reverted back to the current date. This indicates that the battery is due for a change. The last change was in June 2009 (see above) - just over three years ago. The nominal rating for the 8F35 battery life is 8 years. This last battery then only ran for less than 40% of its rated life. This is very poor.

I wonder if other 8f35 users have had similar experiences.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: Big 2009 Update, First Battery Change!*



Haqnut said:


> The watch started the two second sweeps again this morning and didn't latch the date dial forward overnight. It reverted back to normal operation this evening and the date reverted back to the current date. This indicates that the battery is due for a change. The last change was in June 2009 (see above) - just over three years ago. The nominal rating for the 8F35 battery life is 8 years. This last battery then only ran for less than 40% of its rated life. This is very poor.
> 
> I wonder if other 8f35 users have had similar experiences.


I never buy new watches so didn't even realize they are claiming 8 years... I have not seen many claims of more than 5 year even with the Li batteries.

I have never bought a used 8f* that didn't need an immediate battery replacement. That in itself may confirm your observation.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: Big 2009 Update, First Battery Change!*

Update. At around midnight last night it started to run in 2sec sweep mode again and didn't latch the date dial forward. Still running in sweep mode 12 hours later. The watch is worn 24/7.

EDIT: It continued on this 2sec sweep (2SS) mode for 48 hours in total and then reverted back to normal operation and latched the date from the 22nd to the 25th in one operation. Since then it has operated as normal.


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## gonzomantis (Mar 15, 2008)

*Re: Big 2009 Update, First Battery Change!*

I wonder if you got a "fresh" battery when you had it replaced last. I'd guess that what you got was a battery that was sitting on the shelf for too long.

I bought an SBCM025 in 2007, and it did not require a battery change until a few months ago. Unfortunately, I didn't get the battery changed prior to the watch stopping completely. I sent it to COSERV in NJ (USA), and had the battery replaced, time/calendar set, and a water test for a total of US $37.11. Hopefully you can find the same service in AUS.


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## samael_6978 (Apr 30, 2011)

Haqnut said:


>


Can someone identify this Seiko?

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## Turnaround (Jun 30, 2008)

I need to reset my calendar in my SBCM025. I looked for the resetting instructions but I could only find the way to check the date. Any links would be appreciated.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: Big 2009 Update, First Battery Change!*



Turnaround said:


> I need to reset my calendar in my SBCM025. I looked for the resetting instructions but I could only find the way to check the date. Any links would be appreciated.


If you still need some instructions for setting the 8F35A calendar up from scratch and related work, then there are currently some third party instructions here. Additionally, a service manual is currently here.

UPDATE
Soon after my last post I went on a trip to a warmer climate. The watch continued to operate normally from the end of July until just recently after I'd returned to cooler Sydney. Just over a 3 weeks ago it went into 2SS mode for a couple of separate days and then finally entered 2SS mode for 14 days when it finally gave up the ghost and stopped. When the case is opened, I will note here the brand of the expired battery.


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## Haqnut (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: Big 2009 Update, First Battery Change!*

For those needing to venture within....

SEIKO DIVER Perpetual 8F35-00A0


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