# PAM 005 vs 111



## Gabyeah

I have a booklet of Panerai and it says that the OP X & OP XI movement have the swan neck regulator which gives more precision to adjust and I am trying to get some info about the power reserve of the 111 because in the 005 it say 56hrs but the 111 dont say anything and when you read about the 005 it seems that is more sophisticated than the 111 movement 

Which will be the best of those regarding movement?

I was talking with Handwound and because they are both COSC performance it will be alike but given the swan neck in the 111 it will be the more sophisticated movement.

Now which will be the best regarding esthetics?

I like the logo in the 005 but I like the back display in the 111. Which will you choose and why?

I would love to hear opinions. Thanks for your help!


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## polaco23

got pics of each? since theyre co close internally, i think the choice would be between aesthetics.


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## Strandvaskeren

Gabyeah said:


> I like the logo in the 005 but I like the back display in the 111. Which will you choose and why?


If you feel that way, why not get the 005 and have a display back fitted? Just keep the original back too in case you need to sell it later.


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## Gabyeah

I believe one is sandwich dial and the other is sausage. 

Which will have better lume and readability?

I like to keep my watch intact and not mess with the WR.


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## SeikoSickness

Humm...I thought that the 005 _didn't_ have a swan neck. Does anyone have pics of the case back removed from a 005? Power reserve on my 111 seems to be about 42-44 hours. It is defintely not more than 50.


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## carman63

Based on what you've said so far, regarding aesthetics, but not wanting to remove the caseback, etc... get the 005.

1. Swan neck doesn't affect performance, if it's COSC anyway. Just allows a more fine-tune adjustment.
2. You wouldn't want to pull the back, so you'll never see the movement anyway.
3. You're paying more for the display back/swan neck adjuster.
4. Production numbers. For J and K series anyway, there were fewer 005's produced than 111's. 
5. If applicable, price. 005 is a bit less than 111.

Sandwich vs painted dial is a personal preference, IMO. Both should be bright enough. I don't own a painted dial (yet) so I cannot confirm via personal experience.

-Jim


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## handwound

SeikoSick, you're correct the 005 is sans swan neck, the 111 does have it.

I didn't notice much of a difference in lume intensity or duration between my I series PAM210 (sandwich dial) and my D series PAM002 (sausage dial). I actually prefer the sausage dial and the logo, so that would make the 005 a no-brainer for me. Plus it's a bit more affordable than the 111.


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## VazLube

The dail markers on 005 appears to be bright and bold while sandwich dail looks bit subdued, making the hour/minute stand out more.

It's all personal preference. I like both of them!

Generally most of Panerai's are COSC, ones are not are base models ie. no second hands. COSC requires all hands, second, minute and hour hands to be present.

Production numbers
005
J = 1100
K = 1200

111
J = 3500
K = 3000

Compared to the most popular model the 104,
J = 4000
K = 6500 (!)


SeikoSickness, yeah the PR doesn't run to the quoted 56 hours. I'm told that quoted PR time is just estimated time, and varies. IANAH(orologist) I don't know why that PR varies even by same movement! If they make the movement run to COSC specs, then why not the PR as well?


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## handwound

VazLube said:


> ...SeikoSickness, yeah the PR doesn't run to the quoted 56 hours. I'm told that quoted PR time is just estimated time, and varies. IANAH(orologist) I don't know why that PR varies even by same movement! If they make the movement run to COSC specs, then why not the PR as well?


My 114 has a PR of about 57.5 hours.

The difference in PR is just like when Porsche or Ferrari build a car engine. Same parts, same specs, same factory, yet some engines make a few more or less HP than the manufacturer's advertised numbers.


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## HelloNasty1

Base in your face, how low can ya go (sorry, anyone able to the song this belongs to, classic) Anyway, when going base my vote is the Zero or 05, but really you can not go wrong if you went with 111. Good luck deciding!


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## Timewaster

Strandvaskeren said:


> If you feel that way, why not get the 005 and have a display back fitted? Just keep the original back too in case you need to sell it later.


 Hmmm... now that's an idea! Is it easy to do that? To the OP, one of my personal favorite PAMs is the 005 - I like the logo on the dial, and its not crazy expensive like the 195 limited.

HelloNasty, I believe you are thinking of the song "Bring da Noize", which was done by Public Enemy and Anthrax, circa 1990 (at least that's when I remember it).

Regards,
-Jeff


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## Strandvaskeren

Timewaster said:


> Hmmm... now that's an idea! Is it easy to do that?


Dunno? Personally I would have an AD do it to avoid warranty void and all that. Still, I would make sure to ask for the original back too, in case a future owner of the watch insists on originality.


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## SeikoSickness

handwound said:


> My 114 has a PR of about 57.5 hours.
> 
> The difference in PR is just like when Porsche or Ferrari build a car engine. Same parts, same specs, same factory, yet some engines make a few more or less HP than the manufacturer's advertised numbers.


I don't disagree with that analogy but a difference of 25% (15 hours, more or less) is extremely large. I'd expect 1-2 hours difference...


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## handwound

I agree, 100%. I didn't notice what you stated your PR was. A PR of <50hrs is a sign of something wrong, IMO.

What series is this watch? You're certain you're giving it a full wind, yeah?


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## J_Hack

If you like a painted dial and still want a display caseback you can always look for a 111 E, F, or G. However the G is the only one with a brushed crown guard, E and F are polished.


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## Gabyeah

Found the PR in the booklet 111 it is same as 005


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## VazLube

because it uses same movement.


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## SeikoSickness

handwound said:


> I agree, 100%. I didn't notice what you stated your PR was. A PR of <50hrs is a sign of something wrong, IMO.
> 
> What series is this watch? You're certain you're giving it a full wind, yeah?


It is an i series watch. Now, before we panic, I haven't actually measured the full run of this watch. I wind it every other night and initial winding feels very loose (spring is almost fully unwound). So, there may still be a few hours left in it...I don't know. I'll run a check...but, the watch runs just fine. It's about -1 sec/day so I'm not too worried.


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## MikeW

Choosing between an 005 and a 111 is all about personal preference. Both are exceptional watches, just a matter of what appeals to you. While I personally own an 005, I am sure I would be happy with a 111 as well.

Best of luck with the choice, Mike


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## HelloNasty1

Timewaster said:


> HelloNasty, I believe you are thinking of the song "Bring da Noize", which was done by Public Enemy and Anthrax, circa 1990 (at least that's when I remember it).
> 
> Regards,
> -Jeff


Nice call, that is it! Classic...Yeah booooy (Flavor Flav)! LOL.


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## Timewaster

handwound said:


> SeikoSick, you're correct the 005 is sans swan neck, the 111 does have it.


I'm a little confused. This is what the Panerai website says about the 005 movement:


> *Movement:* hand-wound mechanical, *Panerai OP XI calibre with swan's neck regulator*, 16½ lignes, 17 jewels, Côtes de Genève decoration on the bridges. Glucydur® balance with Nivarox® I spring, 21,600 alternations/hour


Regards,
-Jeff


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## handwound

Jeff, the Panerai website lists the specs for all the Luminor Marinas on the "Specifications" page. If you look closely, the specs for the normal Marinas are listed first, then directly below that block of text is this (the 005 is the Luminor Marina Logo):

*Luminor Marina Logo*
*Movement: *hand-wound mechanical, Panerai OP II, 16½ lignes, 17 jewels, Côtes de Genève decoration on the bridges. Glucydur® balance with Nivarox® I spring, 21,600 alternations/hour.
Incabloc® anti-shock device.
Power reserve 56 hours. 
Chronometer Certificate (C.O.S.C.).


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## Timewaster

Ah, now I see. Thanks Trent.

Next question then. If they don't use a display case back on the logo 005, why do they have Côtes de Genève decoration on the bridges? Maybe just because they used the same movement regardless of case back decision? I've been considering getting one of these, and having a custom crystal case back made for it (if that is indeed possible), as the poster above suggested. Nice bridge work that otherwise would not be seen with the regular case back would make me even more inclined to do something like that.

Regards,
-Jeff


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## handwound

Well, given that the OPII movement has the squared, standard-ETA shaped bridges it's not really the "same movement" as the OPXI, save for the swan neck.

As for why they do it, enough people lament the use of a largely unmodified ETA6497-2 movement at all in this price range. Can you imagine what they would say if it wasn't even decorated?!?!?!?!?!?! 

I agree, though, with a closed case back, who cares?

Let's be honest, even with the finely decorated OPXI movements, the 6497-2 isn't much to look at.


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