# El primero maintenance interval?



## aeroman (Aug 16, 2010)

since El primero has high beats, does it require shorter maintenance, like 2-2.5 years? thanks.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

No. The escapement has a dry lubricant and the rest of the geartrain only moves at the same speed as an 18000 A/h watch (otherwise, you'd have the second hand going round twice a minute or so!). The only issue would be the balance pivot - but the oils there are easily protected from being flicked off by the high speed. And as for the drying rate of oils, this is also the same in a 36000 A/h watch as in an 18000 A/h watch - five years is five years, either way! Doesn't matter what speed the escapement beats, nor whether you run the watch or not.

Hartmut Richter


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## aeroman (Aug 16, 2010)

thank you so much! one more question for you, I heard that el primero can keep chorno runing forever. is it true? the new released retrotimer features permanent running chorono .



Hartmut Richter said:


> No. The escapement has a dry lubricant and the rest of the geartrain only moves at the same speed as an 18000 A/h watch (otherwise, you'd have the second hand going round twice a minute or so!). The only issue would be the balance pivot - but the oils there are easily protected from being flicked off by the high speed. And as for the drying rate of oils, this is also the same in a 36000 A/h watch as in an 18000 A/h watch - five years is five years, either way! Doesn't matter what speed the escapement beats, nor whether you run the watch or not.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


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## John Chris (Jul 7, 2010)

aeroman said:


> thank you so much! one more question for you, I heard that el primero can keep chorno runing forever. is it true? the new released retrotimer features permanent running chorono .


Not true, at least with cal. 3019 and cal. 400/405/410 El Primeros. The manuals all warned against this. Wrong clutch.

Chris


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## aeroman (Aug 16, 2010)

You are right, following is from Zenith offiicial site. But the Retrotimer chorono never stops, LOL, using 4055B calibre, do you think Retrotimer is designed to have permanent running chorono?

Recommendations for use
• Keep the watch away from electro-magnetic fields of all kinds
• Keep the watch away from all sources of heat
• For chronograph watches, do not use the stopwatch hand as a direct-drive seconds hand (running non-stop)
• Before any contact with water, make sure that the crown has been pressed in fully against the case
• For chronograph watches, do not use the push buttons when the watch is immersed in water
• After swimming in salt water, always rinse the watch in fresh water
• Avoid wearing the watch when playing sports that could have a "violent" effect on the movement (golf, tennis)



John Chris said:


> Not true, at least with cal. 3019 and cal. 400/405/410 El Primeros. The manuals all warned against this. Wrong clutch.
> 
> Chris


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

There are two issues with running a chronograph all the time:

1. The gear wheel tooth profile between permanent second hand wheel and centre chrono second wheel are different. The intermediate wheel can only suit one of them - normally the permanent second wheel. The much finer tooth profile on the centre second hand wheel could get worn if the chrono is left running all the time. This will only affect a horizontal clutch chrono - the vertical clutch is rather different and the swivel pinion (Heuer, Valjoux 7750, Chronoswiss Chronoscope) could have it depending on the tooth profiles chosen.

2. The extra moving parts in the system when the chrono is running will add friction. This will reduce power reserve. In addition, unless the watch is in perfect isochronism, this will affect the daily rate. The Zenith 1/10th of a second, when tested by "Chronos" performed with a maximum deviation between positions of 3 seconds with chrono off - but 14 seconds when the chrono was running. It shows that the adaptation takes far more power (because of the much faster revolving centre second wheel) than the normal EP. Usually, the difference between chrono on or off is minimal on this movement. Again, the vertical clutch chrono isn't affected by this - the chrono seconds wheel runs all the time and the hand is practically lowered onto it when in use.

Hartmut Richter


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## aeroman (Aug 16, 2010)

nice info. Do you know the Zenith Retrotimer has horizontal or vertical cluth? I guess it is vertical since the chrono of Retrotimer never stops.

below this the pic of retrotimer FYI. The second and min chrono keep running, if you push the botton at 4 o'clock, the second and min chrono hand reset back to zero and start new chrono immediately.









Hartmut Richter said:


> There are two issues with running a chronograph all the time:
> 
> 1. The gear wheel tooth profile between permanent second hand wheel and centre chrono second wheel are different. The intermediate wheel can only suit one of them - normally the permanent second wheel. The much finer tooth profile on the centre second hand wheel could get worn if the chrono is left running all the time. This will only affect a horizontal clutch chrono - the vertical clutch is rather different and the swivel pinion (Heuer, Valjoux 7750, Chronoswiss Chronoscope) could have it depending on the tooth profiles chosen.
> 
> ...


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## zekio (Jun 9, 2010)

i often read that the EP movement is expensive to service, but never seen anyone state 
how much it would actualy cost. anyone know a figure for an normal EP service, assuming nothing
serious is broken?


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## v76 (Dec 29, 2009)

If you get it done by Zenith In Switzerland (Le Locle), it is CHF 300 for partial maintenance and CHF 650 for full maintenance (basic El Primero mvmt., cal. 400 for eg.). It's on the Zenith website as a rough estimate.



zekio said:


> i often read that the EP movement is expensive to service, but never seen anyone state
> how much it would actualy cost. anyone know a figure for an normal EP service, assuming nothing
> serious is broken?


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

v76 said:


> If you get it done by Zenith In Switzerland (Le Locle), it is CHF 300 for partial maintenance and CHF 650 for full maintenance (basic El Primero mvmt., cal. 400 for eg.). It's on the Zenith website as a rough estimate.


 Those figures sound about right.

As for the original question of whether horizontal or vertical clutch (sorry - missed that one!), I think it must have a horizontal clutch. The original EP has one and I think the adaptations to put a vertical clutch in would be too hefty. In either case, it shouldn't matter. Although I will freely admit that I don't know the mechanism since I haven't seen it, in this sort of chrono, the central second hand must be in permanent connection with the permanent second hand. So, you don't need a different tooth profile on the wheels (it is there largely to minimise the "jump" on starting the chrono). In addition, you then have to regulate the watch to "chrono on permanently" and the daily rate should be fine. It will simply drain the power a little - I would expect the power reserve on this chrono to be somewhat short of the normal 50 hours. As long as you wear it all the time and thereby keep winding it, you should be fine.....

Hartmut Richter


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