# Damasko - Stowe or Sinn..... Tough choice for my next watch



## Phoenix103 (Dec 29, 2017)

So I had my heart set on buying a Sinn 104 because I love the simple but elegant design, then along came the Stowa T02 with seems to be just as impressive as the Sinn and then there were 2. Out of nowhere I start reading about the Damasko brand and the elegant, beautiful and crafted quality that comes with it.

Hence, here I am asking my fellow colleagues for some help:

Options are:
Sinn 104 or the 556 - Stowa T02- Damsko DS30 or the DA44

Than you


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## Besbro (Dec 31, 2016)

Well I am biased to Damasko as I just purchased one. I like the idea of almost scratch resistant case. Also I love the tech behind the brand.









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## Phoenix103 (Dec 29, 2017)

Besbro said:


> Well I am biased to Damasko as I just purchased one. I like the idea of almost scratch resistant case. Also I love the tech behind the brand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful watch what is the diameter of case?


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

I own the Stowa TO2









and the Damasko DS30









and owned the DA46









No Sinn 556 but I know this does not answer your question at all 😀


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Case diameter is 40mm netto, with bezel it‘s almost 42mm (41,90).


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## kit7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Go for the DA44, bezel is worth it. Seeing as you are posting in the Damasko page, looks like you are already half way to making a decision. Sorry I've no personal experience of the Sinn or Stowa. I think the case is 40mm and the bezel is slightly wider at 42mm, lug width is 20, lug to lug I think is 48mm

Edit; Mike types faster than I can measure a watch.


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## Besbro (Dec 31, 2016)

Phoenix103 said:


> Beautiful watch what is the diameter of case?


Mike had the answer quick!

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## Phoenix103 (Dec 29, 2017)

stuffler said:


> I own the Stowa TO2
> 
> View attachment 12892837
> 
> ...


Thank you all for your educated feedback. It is now between Damasko and Stowe as I have read many forums stating that Sinns have been experiencing some quality issues.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Phoenix103 said:


> Thank you all for your educated feedback. It is now between Damasko and Stowe as I have read many forums stating that Sinns have been experiencing some quality issues.


It's Stow*a* btw. Those reports on „some quality issues" shoold not be overestimated. If you flick through our Stowa and Damasko fora you will read about „quality issues" as well. Those reports should always be seen in proportion to the total production run vs. number of „issues". So in most cases we are talking/reading about ‰ or fractional %, don't we ?!


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## jarlleif (Jan 22, 2018)

I had a very similar debate a few months ago and went with a Damasko. The Da44 costs the same as a Sinn 104 but blows it out of the water in terms of technology. 

Now that you’ve ruled out the Sinn, you basically have to decide if you want a Damasko with hardened steel and a 42 mm size or a Stowa T02 made from titanium (lighter but will scratch more easily) at 45mm. 

Personally I’d vote Damasko as I think it is a better deal and think 45mm is a bit large. Both will be great choices though. 


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## Luksaj S.A.S (Aug 14, 2017)

It is 42 MM with bezel. looks perfect on the wrist.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

The Stowa TO2 is stainless steel not titanium.
As per web site



> Case:
> Stainless steel, fine matt, ground by hand


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## Tanjecterly (Mar 13, 2013)

jarlleif said:


> I had a very similar debate a few months ago and went with a Damasko. The Da44 costs the same as a Sinn 104 but blows it out of the water in terms of technology.
> 
> Now that you've ruled out the Sinn, you basically have to decide if you want a Damasko with hardened steel and a 42 mm size or a Stowa T02 made from titanium (lighter but will scratch more easily) at 45mm.
> 
> ...


I think we all may be talking about different Flieger Sports here.

I have the Stowa Flieger Klassik Sport which is comparable to the same size as the Flieger T02, 43mm. It is not 45mm.

The T01 iterations (TESTAF, GMT) are 45mm, the T02 is not. The T01s seem to be with bezel. The T02 is without bezel.

The T02 Flieger Sport, however, is 45mm and has a bezel. That one has titanium. The T02 is steel as Mike said.

The lugs of my Flieger Classic curve so nicely that with a 6.5 inch wrist, I can wear it comfortably. I imagine the same is true of the T02.


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## jarlleif (Jan 22, 2018)

Tanjecterly said:


> I think we all may be talking about different Flieger Sports here.


Yeah, I think I was combining a couple models in my head. What I was picturing was the TO2 Flieger Sport. Thanks to you and Mike for the correction and additional information.

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## mgh1967 (Oct 20, 2013)

Right now I have a Sinn 556a and a DA36, I used to also have a DA44. The DA44 bezel is amazing to use, you’ll find yourself rotating it for no other reason than it’s so nice to use. I appreciate the engineering and design of the Damasko and the Sinn is a beautiful and very well made watch. I don’t think you can’t go wrong with either one, depends on which one you like more. 


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## Luksaj S.A.S (Aug 14, 2017)

Phoenix103 said:


> So I had my heart set on buying a Sinn 104 because I love the simple but elegant design, then along came the Stowa T02 with seems to be just as impressive as the Sinn and then there were 2. Out of nowhere I start reading about the Damasko brand and the elegant, beautiful and crafted quality that comes with it.
> 
> Hence, here I am asking my fellow colleagues for some help:
> 
> ...


You can also would be considering Laco 1925, they have a real flieger watches, not with the technology of Damasko or sinn but sure with the stowa, they have a really good reputarion, swiss movements too and nice prices!

Here it is of them, 
Hope you like it









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## LARufCTR (Dec 21, 2017)

I've ponder the same issue between the Damasko and Sinn....while I think the tech in the Damasko is ahead of the Sinn, I just like the look of the Sinn better. 856 is my choice...but all of them are really amazing in their own way...I wish Sinn made the U1 in a 40...that would be my choice...but 856 will have to do


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## Phoenix103 (Dec 29, 2017)

So I picked up a great deal on a stowa TO2 which has a similar look to the sinn... so basically I fullfill 2 requirements.

My next watch is definitely a damasko


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## sky4 (Oct 28, 2016)

Phoenix103 said:


> Thank you all for your educated feedback. It is now between Damasko and Stowe as I have read many forums stating that Sinns have been experiencing some quality issues.


So I found myself in the same position a year ago. the Sinn 104 is a very pretty watch. I picked up a lightly used one with most of the warranty remaining.

6 months after i bought it, it stopped dead on my wrist. I sent it to Sinn, they fixed it for free took about 6 weeks.

6 months after i got it back, quit auto-winding.

Other minor issues I had with the Sinn-hands never quite lined up at 12 o clock- not a big deal, but kind of not cool on a 1300 dollar watch. I mentioned this when i sent it for service the first time, it came back without being fixed. Also date ring often wouldn't line up. they kind of fixed this, except on the 15th it is generally off by quite a bit.

So my sinn is still at the factory for service. 
I've got a DA44 on my wrist. It's flawless.

Probably the "worst" thing a bout the damasko is the external AR coating is kind of a smudge magnet, i clean it every day and try to keep my fingers off it. Lume isn't great, but i can wake up at 4am and see the time with my dark adjusted eyes. I do appreciate how bright white it is when viewed in the light as well.

The amount of tech damasko crams into their "entry level" watches is fantastic. These guys are serious. it's not a fashion brand, they are a small company that is absolutely dedicated to pushing the limits of mechanical watches.


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## sky4 (Oct 28, 2016)

Phoenix103 said:


> So I picked up a great deal on a stowa TO2 which has a similar look to the sinn... so basically I fullfill 2 requirements.
> 
> My next watch is definitely a damasko


very cool. keep us posted on how the Stowa holds up and how you like it long term. I do dig a lot of their stuff. Kinda want a marine original.


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## the11thhour (Feb 11, 2018)

The Damasko is super cool, go with that! If you want to go with something a little more tradition, the Sinn is a great choice also


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## Phoenix103 (Dec 29, 2017)

Awesome feedback thank you very much


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## fire_lantern (Mar 1, 2013)

i've owned 2 Stowas, a Damasko DA44, and Sinn. All are fantastic, I wouldn't overthink it, just go with whatever speaks to you the most. FWIW, the only one I have left is a Sinn T2B. If Damasko ever makes a DA44 with blue or green accents or, better yet a blue dial, then that could change. Really hard to go wrong with any, just depends on what look and feel you like best. One thing to note is that of those you'll have to go with Sinn or Damasko if you want a bracelet.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

I like Damasko, I want to love them but I can’t get past the standard grade ETA.


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## cadomniel (Nov 20, 2010)

I like all three 
I don't have any of them but will get a Damasko again and Stowa soon...


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## sky4 (Oct 28, 2016)

chuasam said:


> I like Damasko, I want to love them but I can't get past the standard grade ETA.


I've heard the biggest difference between standard and top grade is regulation. Once the watch is assembled ideally one would regulate it again as things can shift around.

can always go to one of their in house movements.... The ease of getting an eta 2836 serviced is appealing to me personally. my damasko runs +5.5 seconds a day very consistently, which I'm happy with. I know some have them within 1-2 seconds a day.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

> I've heard the biggest difference between standard and top grade is regulation


Nope. Let' see what ETA does state....















In writing

The performance differences are the big differences between the various grades: ("The limit values are subject to interpretation: 95% of the pieces delivered in a lot must be within the specified limits.")

Standard:
2 positions (CH, 6H)
daily rate: +/-12 sec/day
Maximum positional variation: 30 sec
Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 20 sec

Elabore:
3 positions (CH, 6H, 9H)
daily rate: +/-7 sec/day
Maximum positional variation: 20 sec
Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 15 sec

Top:
5 positions (CH, FH, 6H, 9H, 3H)
daily rate: +/-4 sec/day
Maximum positional variation: 15 sec
Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 10 sec

Chronometre:
As per COSC specifications, which as far as most owners will notice, isn't much different from Top grade.

The "material differences" are listed below.

Standard and Elabore:
Mainspring - Nivaflex NO
Shock protection - Etachocs
Pallet stones - Polyrubies, Epilame-coated
Balance - Nickel gilt
Balance staff - Epilame coated
Collet - Nivatronic
Hairspring - Nivarox 2
Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable

Top and Chronometre:
Mainspring - NivaflexNM
Shock protection - Incabloc
Pallet stones - Red rubies, Epilame-coated
Balance - Glucydur gilt
Balance staff - Epilame coated
Collet - Nivatronic
Hairspring - Anachron
Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

I have a DA46 and my next watch will be the DS30. All of the elegance of a 556 with the right proportions but with actual tech built into it making it worth the price. If it weren't for the size, I think the simiar looking Stowa T series would be a good (although less value minded) option as well.


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## Phoenix103 (Dec 29, 2017)

stuffler said:


> > I've heard the biggest difference between standard and top grade is regulation
> 
> 
> Nope. Let' see what ETA does state....
> ...


Absolutely excellent review


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Phoenix103 said:


> Absolutely excellent review


Agree. All that nice tech in the top and chronometer grades is sweet (I recall a chronometer grade is no different than a top, it's just certified).

Still, I think the performance figures Mike quotes are for movements as delivered by ETA. Watch manufacturers can regulate them to a higher level of performance, Damasko and Stowa are said to do so. Even a 'standard' grade movement can be regulated to an impressive level of accuracy. WatchMann adjusted my DA46 about 6 months ago, since then it gains a steady 3 secs per day, making me very happy. Not bad for a bog-common 2836-2, not bad at all.


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## rambo4hire (May 21, 2008)

I am biased  go for the Damasko!!

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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

rambo4hire said:


> I am biased  go for the Damasko!!


A bit late to the party, Op bought a Stowa TO2.


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## rambo4hire (May 21, 2008)

stuffler said:


> A bit late to the party, Op bought a Stowa TO2.


Well there is always a next watch

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## mattsbeers (Mar 28, 2018)

Can anyone speak to how the DS30 vs. 556i compares? They seem incredibly similar.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

mattsbeers said:


> Can anyone speak to how the DS30 vs. 556i compares? They seem incredibly similar.


Done a search ?
There are some threads already including a video comparison.


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## Bratis (Aug 29, 2018)

mattsbeers said:


> Can anyone speak to how the DS30 vs. 556i compares? They seem incredibly similar.


Hi, I'm sorry if this has been discussed already but I'd like to chime in as the former owner of a Sinn 556.
I had the Sinn for 8 months and the DS30 for two and a half months. Here are my thoughts:
1) DS30 feels like it has been build to last. The Sinn does not. The finish on the Sinn is incredibly sensitive to scratches. It is a very aesthetic finish yes, but after two months it was very noticeable that it is a used watch (I bought it new). I still don't have a single scratch on the case of the DS30. As you know, the submarine steel of the DS30 is surface hardened, I believe the sinn has regular steel, but it's the finish what makes it prone to scratches.
2) The DS30 is noticeably thinner. 
4) As of now there is no bracelet for the DS30, take that into account if you are a bracelet person.
5)The Sinn has a display back that shows the beautifully decorated ETA 2824. The DS30 does not, but I really like the backs of all Damaskos.
6) All of the indexes in the Sinn are identical, there is no distinction whatsoever on the 12 hour marker. Sometimes this makes the reading the time quite difficult depending on your arm orientation. Forget to be able to tell the time at night. The DS30 has a double index on the 12 hour giving you a reference, this is specially useful at night.
7) The movement in the DS30 is a ETA 2824 elabore, whereas the Sinn has the ETA 2824 top grade. Now, if you look through the case back of the Sinn, you will notice that the shock absorption that Sinn mounts is the Etachoc (which is the lower grade shock absorber) whereas the Damasko mounts the Incabloc system (I emailed Damasko and this was confirmed, they mount incabloc). Don't ask me why Sinn downgrades their shock protection system because I don't know. 
8) As you know, the DS30 has the Damasko patented permanent lubrication cell for the stem, Sinn has a normal stem with gaskets. The Damasko crowns have the most solid feel from all the watches that I have handeled, which I like. But take into account that having that proprietary technology in the Damasko means that you might have to send the watch to Germany to get it overhauled or get things done should you need to. I'm not aware of people in the USA being certified by Damasko to work on their watches. Perhaps Greg from Watchmann can tell us if he knows anybody.
9) Both have 200m water resistance. 
Overall, after having owned the Sinn for 8 months and the Damasko for over two, I feel like Damasko is the cool person's Sinn.
I hope this was helpful.


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## Psalty (Jun 18, 2017)

Bratis said:


> Perhaps Greg from Watchmann can tell us if he knows anybody.


I believe that Gregg's repair shop is authorized to work on all Damaskos. This is a great benefit when buying in the USA.


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## Dogs857 (Apr 5, 2018)

Bratis said:


> Hi, I'm sorry if this has been discussed already but I'd like to chime in as the former owner of a Sinn 556.
> I had the Sinn for 8 months and the DS30 for two and a half months. Here are my thoughts:
> 1) DS30 feels like it has been build to last. The Sinn does not. The finish on the Sinn is incredibly sensitive to scratches. It is a very aesthetic finish yes, but after two months it was very noticeable that it is a used watch (I bought it new). I still don't have a single scratch on the case of the DS30. As you know, the submarine steel of the DS30 is surface hardened, I believe the sinn has regular steel, but it's the finish what makes it prone to scratches.
> 2) The DS30 is noticeably thinner.
> ...


Sorry to resurrect an old thread but this is exactly the information I have been looking for.

I have been weighing up between the 556i and DS30 for a little while now. Being in Australia we don't have a dealer for Damasko here, but we do have one for Sinn. This alone was making me lean towards to 556i as being able to get warranty work done easily is a big issue. My closest dealer for Damasko is Gnomon in Singapore. While they have a great reputation it still means that I have to post my watch internationally to have warranty work done. I am also not too sure if they are able to do work on Damasko's patented stuff.

However the sub steel, improved lume and Damasko tech in the DS30 is not something to be ignored. As I am a one watch kind of man this will go with me everywhere, and the added protection of hardened steel is a big plus. I have been looking all through this Damasko forum, as well as the Sinn one for someone who could provide real information on the two. I have seen the video comparing them by the off the cuff blokes, however he states in that the Sinn will never leave his collection. He does Gove big wraps to the DS30 though.

After reading this comparison I think I am leaning now towards the DS30. All that would hold me back is the lack of bracelet. I have seen a few threads saying that one is in the works, I just wonder how much longer that will be?

So thank you Bratis, this was indeed very helpful to me.


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## Bratis (Aug 29, 2018)

You are welcome, I'm glad it was helpful! Now it has been 6 months since I have the DS30 and my opinion has not changed at all. Still not a single scratch to be seen on the case, even though this is the watch that I wear the most.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

> All that would hold me back is the lack of bracelet. I have seen a few threads saying that one is in the works, I just wonder how much longer that will be?


You need to ask Damasko but my gut says it will take some more time, maybe WatchTime Düsseldorf, maybe winter 2019 or even 2020. they are working on it, that's all I can say.


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## Dogs857 (Apr 5, 2018)

stuffler said:


> You need to ask Damasko but my gut says it will take some more time, maybe WatchTime Düsseldorf, maybe winter 2019 or even 2020. they are working on it, that's all I can say.


Thanks Mike.

Luckily I am a patient man, they seem to have been working on it now for a few years. 
I guess it helps knowing that I don't have to spring for a bracelet straight off either.


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## Acidstain (Jul 28, 2018)

Dogs857 said:


> stuffler said:
> 
> 
> > You need to ask Damasko but my gut says it will take some more time, maybe WatchTime Düsseldorf, maybe winter 2019 or even 2020. they are working on it, that's all I can say.
> ...


The DS30 is a strap monster. I've purchased 1 strap a week since i have gotten mine. (About 6 weeks ago) and it looks good on different straps.

Also i really like their submarine steel. I have had multiple "accidents" of my spring bar tool slipping (due to thick spring bar + thick leather = fight to squeeze it in and get the bar in the hole) or the spring bar itself scraping the back lug. But until now, not a single mark in that area.


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