# Meet the Suunto Ambit3 Vertical!



## Pirk

THE VERTICAL EXPERIENCE FOR MULTISPORT

Some call it obsession, we call it dedication. The Suunto Ambit3 Vertical is more than just a multisport GPS watch. Follow the altitude profile of your route while working your way up mountains. Keep track of your total vertical gain from your yearly total to day-by-day ascents. Plan your training with the Suunto Movescount App and let the vibration alerts on the watch guide you during your workouts. Relive and share your experience with the Suunto Movescount App.

More info here: http://www.suunto.com/nb-NO/News/Su...isport-GPS-watch-for-tracking-elevation-gain/


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## DirkLerxstPratt

Just saw this on twitter too.


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## Quotron

Already on Suunto.com

Vertical Black

Looks like some other features are
* Standard lugs
* Vibe alerts
* Interval planner
* Real time hill incline %


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## Pirk

I'm thinking they are not naming this the Ambit 4 since they need to catch up to the Fenix 3 witht that one. 

But is has better battery, no GPS nub (Glonass?) and vibration alert. Anything else new?


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## Matteeboy

Looks like it's aimed at mountaineers and climbers?


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## Pirk

A quick review from Trailrunningspain.com


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## HIKESOLO

Love Suunto but seems like they're beating a dead horse with all these limited editions and variations. This should have been the Ambit 4. Although I guess Garmin sort of did the same.


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## HIKESOLO

Pirk said:


> I'm thinking they are not naming this the Ambit 4 since they need to catch up to the Fenix 3 witht that one.
> 
> But is has better battery, no GPS nub (Glonass?) and vibration alert. Anything else new?


Better battery? Looks like it's the 10 hour, 15 hour, and 100 hour settings like the A3 Sport and Traverse to me.


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## Pirk

My mistake. I see the Vertical will have Glonass after an software upgrade. So probably not ready yet.


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## morey000

Yup. Looks like what many of us were expecting the Traverse to be. The full multisport firmware of the Ambit3, in the new package. Looks like a fine product. Garmin is a version ahead in features, but if the GPS performance and general stability of the Vertical is as solid as Ambit 3 peak/sport, it will still be a compelling product over the Fenix 3.

Although the ultra/trail running and hiking crowd is going to miss the 'Peak' sized battery life (20hrs vs 10hrs). I was expecting this watch to just be packaged with the larger battery. i.e. the Vertical would be to the Traverse, as the Peak would be to the Sport.


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## Pegasus

Looks good, torn as to whether I would ditch my Ambit 3 Peak for it though, possibly not a big enough difference for me. 

Is Glonass being enabled on the 3 peak does anyone know?

Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## morey000

Pegasus said:


> Looks good, torn as to whether I would ditch my Ambit 3 Peak for it though, possibly not a big enough difference for me.
> 
> Is Glonass being enabled on the 3 peak does anyone know?


you'd be giving up battery life,
but would get the new packaging, integrated antenna, vibration alerts. Yeah- Probably not worth it.

my guess is that, for the A3, you have no need/benefit from Glonass. the GPS performance is already so solid.


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## martowl

morey000 said:


> you'd be giving up battery life,
> but would get the new packaging, integrated antenna, vibration alerts. Yeah- Probably not worth it.
> 
> my guess is that, for the A3, you have no need/benefit from Glonass. the GPS performance is already so solid.


I am torn as well, the vertical is more important for me than distance but I want the battery life of the peak....don't know what I am going to do. The vertical features are great, I would love to know how much further vertical I have to go when running/hiking and racing. This looks great and is lighter than the Peak. Arggghhh.


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## morey000

martowl said:


> I am torn as well, the vertical is more important for me than distance.


to quote Apple. "there's an app for that". If you just want a good readout of your total ascent, this simple app works well for me. I find it comes pretty darn close to the Strava calculated climb.

My Ascent - App at Movescount.com


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## gianky73

nice watch... i have two ambit peak and a traverse and all are very rock solid... glonass is not a great feature... according to my tests the ambit3 "nose" is better than glonass/gps combo... and the Peak's big battery is very useful for me during ultratrail races over ten hours... anyway i like this vertical... the black edition is beautiful 
when it will be available in Europe?


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## martowl

morey000 said:


> to quote Apple. "there's an app for that". If you just want a good readout of your total ascent, this simple app works well for me. I find it comes pretty darn close to the Strava calculated climb.
> 
> My Ascent - App at Movescount.com


The app uses GPS ascent that is not as accurate as the FusedAlti...I can monitor my ascent, what would be nice is to have the vert as part of a route and when doing an ultra at night now how much more climbing I have before I top out. This is not possible with an app (yet). So the integration on the vertical is great. I may have to get one or wait......to see what the Ambit3Peak replacement is (larger battery).


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## HIKESOLO

Anyone know if they included the step tracking? I can't find the info on it anywhere. Would be silly if they didn't include that because adding it to the Traverse leads one to believe they are moving in that direction (of including steps on all future watches).


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## Pegasus

Will there be an Ambit 3 Peak direct replacement I wonder or is this the way Suunto are going now, making the product line more specific with the Traverse and now the Vertical.........


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tripp Knightly

martowl said:


> I am torn as well, the vertical is more important for me than distance but I want the battery life of the peak....don't know what I am going to do. The vertical features are great, I would love to know how much further vertical I have to go when running/hiking and racing. This looks great and is lighter than the Peak. Arggghhh.


And you would want the PRECISE remaining metrics you'd get from that vs what is I'm sure a pretty-detailed scour of the elevation charts you do pre-race? In other words you want an electronic elevation chart (and corresponding progress metrics with you at all times. I get it, it's probably worth knowing there's 850' of climb left vs "oh something like 500', 1000' as I recall".


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## martowl

Tripp Knightly said:


> And you would want the PRECISE remaining metrics you'd get from that vs what is I'm sure a pretty-detailed scour of the elevation charts you do pre-race? In other words you want an electronic elevation chart (and corresponding progress metrics with you at all times. I get it, it's probably worth knowing there's 850' of climb left vs "oh something like 500', 1000' as I recall".


Exactly, I typically draw my routes out (race or long "fun" run) and load into the Ambit. Having the predictive elevation data would be very useful when I cannot see where I am going. This was exactly the case for Fat Dog 120 miler last August where the visibility was greater than 1 mile for only the first 6h of a 40h run!!! Sure would have been nice to know when I was near the last summit on the second night when I was not so clear about remembering how many little 500' to 800' climbs I had left before the final descent!


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## morey000

*Availability Info:*
The Vertical can be bought from Suunto webstore and REI starting from Jan 14th 
and it will be available in all stores on Feb 2nd.

(claims Suunto)


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

morey000 said:


> *Availability Info:*
> The Vertical can be bought from Suunto webstore and REI starting from Jan 14th
> and it will be available in all stores on Feb 2nd.
> 
> (claims Suunto)


Ha! Earlier than we in Europe will see it at the ISPO in Munich


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## -J-T-A-

Looks like Suunto is using same platform to make different products like automotive industry makes different cars with same platform. I guess it is one way to make business.

I would prefer best possible platform at the time and all new features would be a bonus after that. Now it seems that Traverse could be Vertical or vice verca (only software difference).


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## danielp370

I find this branding approach confusing. I'm not a hiker. Is this watch a good, multiple purpose replacement to the Ambit2, or am I supposed to wait for Ambit4? 

I'm a swimmer, so should I wait for the swim edition?

With vibration alerts this looks like what people were after in the ambit3 originally. But I'm honestly confused by Suunto's intent here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## -J-T-A-

danielp370 said:


> I find this branding approach confusing. I'm not a hiker. Is this watch a good, multiple purpose replacement to the Ambit2, or am I supposed to wait for Ambit4?
> 
> I'm a swimmer, so should I wait for the swim edition?
> 
> With vibration alerts this looks like what people were after in the ambit3 originally. But I'm honestly confused by Suunto's intent here.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This should work as good as Ambit3 for swimming, but i think that you have to wait for real user experience to be sure.


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## roots_n_rocks

...Real time hill incline %...with an app..

ok, since suunto is too busy to create a suunto app and has outsource the job to wannabe developers around the world, 
who have flooded movescount with real incline apps, 
has anybody to suggest a precise and responsive to changes real time hill incline app ?

I have tested about 10 of them and they either very slow to respond or give results that are very different to what i see on the road and on my 510.


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## martowl

roots_n_rocks said:


> ...Real time hill incline %...with an app..
> 
> ok, since suunto is too busy to create a suunto app and has outsource the job to wannabe developers around the world,
> who have flooded movescount with real incline apps,
> has anybody to suggest a precise and responsive to changes real time hill incline app ?
> 
> I have tested about 10 of them and they either very slow to respond or give results that are very different to what i see on the road and on my 510.


From what I see the vertical information is much more than just an incline app. From the statements and the graphs on the watch face vertical is treated similarly to routes, there is a predictive line for the vertical that is upcoming as well as what has been completed. I am not nearly as interested in knowing how steep it is, my legs can tell me that! But, knowing how much vert is left in a climb for a race and knowing how I feel could make a difference in a finish....or knowing how much more up there is (and mileage) until I reach a pass that I cannot see would be very useful. More often than not I will go over more than one peak or I will be running in an unknown place. Just knowing the final elevation is not as informative as having a vertical "route." I believe that is part of what the software for the vertical will do. That is why it appeals to me. If the battery were the same as the Ambit3 Peak, I would sell my Peak today.


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## Pegasus

Does anything think we will get a direct Peak replacement or will it be a case of picking one of the compromises that is nearest to what you require. I wear my Peak as a daily watch and would like the smaller form factor but the Traverse and Vertical seem too specifically aimed for me.

I know nobody knows (except Suunto) just wondering out loud 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## user_none

martowl said:


> From what I see the vertical information is much more than just an incline app. From the statements and the graphs on the watch face vertical is treated similarly to routes, there is a predictive line for the vertical that is upcoming as well as what has been completed. I am not nearly as interested in knowing how steep it is, my legs can tell me that! But, knowing how much vert is left in a climb for a race and knowing how I feel could make a difference in a finish....or knowing how much more up there is (and mileage) until I reach a pass that I cannot see would be very useful. More often than not I will go over more than one peak or I will be running in an unknown place. Just knowing the final elevation is not as informative as having a vertical "route." I believe that is part of what the software for the vertical will do. That is why it appeals to me. If the battery were the same as the Ambit3 Peak, I would sell my Peak today.


If I'm interpreting the watch face correctly, it looks to be a perfect illustration of what you've described.


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## roots_n_rocks

maybe i didn't made myself clear.

copy/paste from vertical features:
Real-time hill incline percentage****
****in Suunto Apps

All i am asking is where is the app ?


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## morey000

martowl said:


> ... That is why it appeals to me. If the battery were the same as the Ambit3 Peak, I would sell my Peak today.


Sounds like the perfect functionality of what you're looking for. Options for you seem to be:

1. Just get the damn watch, and leave a USB charger in a drop bag every 50-60Km. (i've done it a few times with my 'sport'- works out fine. I tuck the charger under the optical HR monitor I strap on my forearm and wrap the cable around my wrist)

2. Hope that the feature will be included in a future product that has a bigger battery.

Given how popular Suuntos are with the trail running and ultra crowd, it would surprise me if they were ceding the long battery life product to Garmin. The Fenix 3 has a seemingly meager 300mAhr battery, so it's only 16mm thick, and yet sports a color screen, activity tracking and a ~20hr GPS battery life (less with Optical HR, but that's understandable). Garmin has done well with power management.


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## Quotron

morey000 said:


> Sounds like the perfect functionality of what you're looking for. Options for you seem to be:
> 
> 1. Just get the damn watch, and leave a USB charger in a drop bag every 50-60Km. (i've done it a few times with my 'sport'- works out fine. I tuck the charger under the optical HR monitor I strap on my forearm and wrap the cable around my wrist)


Similar to what Suunto athlete Jeff Pelletier does










www.instagram.com/jpelletier


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## martowl

roots_n_rocks said:


> maybe i didn't made myself clear.
> 
> copy/paste from vertical features:
> Real-time hill incline percentage****
> ****in Suunto Apps
> 
> All i am asking is where is the app ?


Ahhh....did not understand, sorry. Perhaps when the watch is available they will release the app, Jan 14.


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## martowl

morey000 said:


> Sounds like the perfect functionality of what you're looking for. Options for you seem to be:
> 
> 1. Just get the damn watch, and leave a USB charger in a drop bag every 50-60Km. (i've done it a few times with my 'sport'- works out fine. I tuck the charger under the optical HR monitor I strap on my forearm and wrap the cable around my wrist)
> 
> 2. Hope that the feature will be included in a future product that has a bigger battery.
> 
> Given how popular Suuntos are with the trail running and ultra crowd, it would surprise me if they were ceding the long battery life product to Garmin. The Fenix 3 has a seemingly meager 300mAhr battery, so it's only 16mm thick, and yet sports a color screen, activity tracking and a ~20hr GPS battery life (less with Optical HR, but that's understandable). Garmin has done well with power management.


On a 50 mile race I do not want to deal with a charger and would prefer not to with a 100k race, I have used a charger with my Ambit3 Peak before on 100 mile races. There is enough to deal with on races that I prefer not to hassle with the charger unless necessary. 10h at 1 sec fix is a deal breaker for me as a summer "fun" run might be too long and I would be forced to carry a battery everywhere. I am addicted to the longer battery life of the Peak.


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## bruceames

Seems really odd to introduce a watch for trail runners with reduced battery life. Hopefully by the time I get around to doing a 100 miler (if that time should come), there will be a watch with 30 hour battery life in 1 sec mode. Otherwise I will either bring a charger or an extra watch.


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## pjc3

bruceames said:


> Seems really odd to introduce a watch for trail runners with reduced battery life.


Suunto are working with what they've got....
Many wanted form factor over aesthetics so they made next iteration thinner with bezel GPS. Accuracy and battery life suffered. 
I suppose they could have chosen Peak hardware to make their "Vertical".


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## Quotron

A first impressions "review"
Road Trail Run: Outdoor Retailer W16: Introduction Sunnto Ambit 3 Vertical GPS Watch. First Impressions in Use.


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## morey000

Quotron said:


> A first impressions "review"
> Road Trail Run: Outdoor Retailer W16: Introduction Sunnto Ambit 3 Vertical GPS Watch. First Impressions in Use.


Yeah- glad you put "review" in quotes. More like a repeat of their marketing release.

And Martowl- don't blame ya'. hold out for proper battery life.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

pjc3 said:


> Suunto are working with what they've got....
> Many wanted form factor over aesthetics so they made next iteration thinner with bezel GPS. Accuracy and battery life suffered.
> I suppose they could have chosen Peak hardware to make their "Vertical".


I blame it all on their working with Kilian Jornet too much


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## manueleltoro

I am no Suunto owner (yet), so one question from my side would be if it is possible with current Ambits/Traverse to change the tracking frequency during an activity. 
So, after 7-8 hours to switch from 1sec to 5sec recording to enhance battery life.


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## Ivan_Ivanusic

No, it's not possible


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## RockBird

manueleltoro said:


> I am no Suunto owner (yet), so one question from my side would be if it is possible with current Ambits/Traverse to change the tracking frequency during an activity.
> So, after 7-8 hours to switch from 1sec to 5sec recording to enhance battery life.


You can create multiple sport modes with different GPS accuracy (1, 5, 60 sec), and then combine them in a multisport mode. Start the exercise using the multisport mode and switch between different sport modes. You can even have a sport mode with GPS off if you need one.


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## gianky73

with traverse it's possible change gps fix rate on the fly.


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## danielp27

actually i think it can be done with a trick: by using multisport. 
you define two different sport modes: "running 1sec" and "running 5sec". 
during your activity you can switch from one mode to the other one. you can even define a "running no gps", and activate it during long pauses, if you want to save some battery without having to stop the activity.

PS i have just seen rockbird's comment providing the same solution. sorry for duplicating.


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## morey000

danielp27 said:


> ...you can even define a "running no gps"...


Notwithstanding the above post that indicates that the Traverse can actually change GPS setting on the fly (nice feature), for those of us with older Ambit models... I keep a 'treadmill' mode in my list. So, I can always do the multisport switch to treadmill- and it does a surprisingly good job at accurately tracking distance. You just lose the GPS track, of course.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Usual reminder: Remember not to go into navigation on your Ambit if you use a mode with a longer-than-1sec ("best") GPS fix and want to have longer battery run time. (Activating navigation automatically switches GPS fix to 1sec.)

(Yeah, I know, most people commenting here know that full-well. But seems a good idea to have that note right here for all those who are new to it...)


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## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Usual reminder: Remember not to go into navigation on your Ambit if you use a mode with a longer-than-1sec ("best") GPS fix and want to have longer battery run time. (Activating navigation automatically switches GPS fix to 1sec.)
> 
> (Yeah, I know, most people commenting here know that full-well. But seems a good idea to have that note right here for all those who are new to it...)


l

One can then turn Navigation off and return to longer GPS fix, correct?


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

martowl said:


> l
> 
> One can then turn Navigation off and return to longer GPS fix, correct?


That does work, yes.


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## Teriemer

Hmmm - I just noticed, when looking at Suuntos website and comparing Traverse with Vertical, that Vertical doesn't have step-counter included... 

That's a bummer Suunto!


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## HIKESOLO

Teriemer said:


> Hmmm - I just noticed, when looking at Suuntos website and comparing Traverse with Vertical, that Vertical doesn't have step-counter included...
> 
> That's a bummer Suunto!


Agreed. Poor decision.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

I don't have a Vertical to play with (yet...), but it seems quite obvious they've basically replaced the step counter(s) with the vertical summaries. On a watch meant for people who collect their verts (ascents/descents), I don't think steps make quite so much sense - but admittedly, my opinion about step counters is a rather unusual one, anyways


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## dbryan1970

Correct me if I am wrong, but it appear NOT to have also sunset/sunrise time, storm alarm and barometric trend indicator.


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## martowl

dbryan1970 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but it appear NOT to have also sunset/sunrise time, storm alarm and barometric trend indicator.











This is a shot from their page on the vertical and if correct shows sunrise sunset as the third row on the main watch face. No manual yet so cannot tell if this is real or not. But I agree in part, I think the barometric weather display is replaced with all of the vertical information. I would expect the indicator that we have on the main watch face to be there but the weather trend page may be gone.

ok that is the same image shown for the Traverse, can the Traverse show sunset/rise times on the main watch face as a third row, my Peak cannot.


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## HIKESOLO

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I don't have a Vertical to play with (yet...), but it seems quite obvious they've basically replaced the step counter(s) with the vertical summaries. On a watch meant for people who collect their verts (ascents/descents), I don't think steps make quite so much sense - but admittedly, my opinion about step counters is a rather unusual one, anyways


Once they start incorporating that feature in their watches it only makes sense to include them in all moving forward (especially if they plan to eventually log them in Movescount). No matter if your are climbing mountains, running or biking, a step tracker is a secondary feature that is nice to have as a compliment to overall fitness. It's not like it's difficult to incorporate that feature, so I guess my point is, why not have it?


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## Teriemer

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I don't have a Vertical to play with (yet...), but it seems quite obvious they've basically replaced the step counter(s) with the vertical summaries. On a watch meant for people who collect their verts (ascents/descents), I don't think steps make quite so much sense - but admittedly, my opinion about step counters is a rather unusual one, anyways


 I disagree - since I the A3 Vertical incorporates your activity in the recovery calculation, it just doesn't make sense not to shows steps counted. In addition, in these days, it's almost impossible to buy a piece of electronic without an activity tracker build in. Come on Suunto, you can do much better than that.

On second thought, the reason for me to buy this watch is due to solid performance, which Suunto always delivers. So in the end, it may not mean that much - I'll admit that. Never the less, it would be a nice touch to include step-counter.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Yes, the Ambits include activity tracking in their recovery calculations - but not step counts. And so does the *Ambit*3 Vertical...

And only because it's possible and a nice number that sounds so great to know, it doesn't mean that it's any good. A FitBit in your pant's pocket or on your waistband, sure, why not. But a step counter on your wrist, counting how much you gesticulate as your activity level, I don't know.

So, if an Ambit is not meant for the average fitness user but for more serious training, I think it's better (well, consistent with the marketing) not to include a step counter there. Of course, I'd bet the next devices to come will include activity tracking á step counts anyways.

And boy, do I miss my FitBit which I used whenever I was *not* doing training, so I had some indication of how much I was moving in my everyday life (alongside an Ambit during training runs to know the data *when* really doing training).


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## HIKESOLO

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see the harm in including and leave it up to the user to decide for themselves if they'd like to use the feature. There is no harm in including step tracking, but it is an issue (for some) to not include it.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

EatPlayLift said:


> I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see the harm in including and leave it up to the user to decide for themselves if they'd like to use the feature. There is no harm in including step tracking, but it is an issue (for some) to not include it.


Complexity of UI/UX, hours and money necessary to code that, differentiation of products and thus marketing...

(But, it's not as if I seriously disagreed.

I'm waiting for the (smart)watch that does these things modularly, with features like apps... Sure, then we'd get into discussions on why storage space doesn't just allow for everything or why battery runtime (and product price) must be so darn high if a model let's the user run just about whatever, but it sure would be an interesting way to go.

And things like step (or activity or recovery) counters, navigation of different kinds, hell even the recently mentioned "I'd like to have an mp3 player on there" would then be possible and just up to the user.

"Only" question is how any company is supposed to make that all work in a decent form factor and at an acceptable price and still remain able to provide customer service for it.

Already, people are over-burdened by all the features and all the combinations. ... Most recent complaints/inquiries I fielded were why the step counter on the Traverse wasn't there (display needs to be turned on by user if wanted), why temperature and altitude readings are wrong (well, if you wear it on your skin, don't know to set up reference altitude and alti/baro-profile), why the workout steps weren't beeping (that took me a longer time until i realized that perhaps all button sounds were turned off).

Now imagine that with such a modular/smart watch...)

With apologies for going off-topic. Let's see who gets a Vertical first and what they think of it


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## raducanmihai

Except for different form factor, I think it's a bad move from Suunto's part (and a frustrating one). I think that A3 Peak can do everything that A3 Veritcal can do and viceversa from a hardware point of view and the only limitation is the firmware. They purposely castrate each model, so they can say that it's a new watch (same thing with Traverse).


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## anto1980

I agree...


raducanmihai said:


> Except for different form factor, I think it's a bad move from Suunto's part (and a frustrating one). I think that A3 Peak can do everything that A3 Veritcal can do and viceversa from a hardware point of view and the only limitation is the firmware. They purposely castrate each model, so they can say that it's a new watch (same thing with Traverse).


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## bruceames

raducanmihai said:


> Except for different form factor, I think it's a bad move from Suunto's part (and a frustrating one). I think that A3 Peak can do everything that A3 Veritcal can do and viceversa from a hardware point of view and the only limitation is the firmware. They purposely castrate each model, so they can say that it's a new watch (same thing with Traverse).


Do you think vibration alerts for the A3 are possible with a firmware upgrade?


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## anto1980

Noooooooooooooooooo.... Impossible!!!


bruceames said:


> Do you think vibration alerts for the A3 are possible with a firmware upgrade?


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## raducanmihai

You are right, I missed that. But what I mean is: taking outor putting in features like steps, altitude profile and so on depending on model... C'mon, really?!


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## wydim

raducanmihai said:


> You are right, I missed that. But what I mean is: taking outor putting in features like steps, altitude profile and so on depending on model... C'mon, really?!


I too am not very happy with this product segmentation. The only thing we can do if we don't like it is to NOT buy the A3Vert and voice our opinion, and wait and hope for the A4 that will rule them all 

I thought the traverse was an experiment on a new form factor, and that the Vertical features could be implemented on the existing A3 (minus the vibration). Then the A4 will combine best of both worlds

Anyway, I'm still very satisfied with my A2 and I can easily wait another year (if my cracked strap holds on)...

Or maybe they'll make an Ambit3 "diagonal" before the A4


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## morey000

If you are 'training'. i.e. if you are tracking your fitness using a power meter, or miles x intensity of running. If you are exercising at 70-100% of Lactate Threshold and sometimes above- Using any of the various metrics like TSS or TRIMP and using some form of performance manager (Training Peaks, Golden Cheetah, etc); Then the fitness value associated with exceptionally low intensity movement such as walking, is so close to ZERO that it really isn't something worth tracking. Unless you just want to know how many steps you took on that 50 mi run for the heck of it. (if so, multiply your average cadence x your minutes of running- and you'll get your answer).

So- I'm all in favor of not bothering to put a step counter into a fitness watch. totally different product, function and market. 

But if that's what you want... there's always the Fenix 3.


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## HIKESOLO

morey000 said:


> If you are 'training'. i.e. if you are tracking your fitness using a power meter, or miles x intensity of running. If you are exercising at 70-100% of Lactate Threshold and sometimes above- Using any of the various metrics like TSS or TRIMP and using some form of performance manager (Training Peaks, Golden Cheetah, etc); Then the fitness value associated with exceptionally low intensity movement such as walking, is so close to ZERO that it really isn't something worth tracking. Unless you just want to know how many steps you took on that 50 mi run for the heck of it. (if so, multiply your average cadence x your minutes of running- and you'll get your answer).
> 
> So- I'm all in favor of not bothering to put a step counter into a fitness watch. totally different product, function and market.
> 
> But if that's what you want... there's always the Fenix 3.


But again, it doesn't hurt to include step tracking. I'm overweight and mostly walk and hike. I prefer Suunto to Garmin. I may not need advanced training metrics but I still appreciate the tech in these watches and want to own the best of the best. I want a Suunto Vertical with step tracking and battery life of the Peak. So close here, yet so far.


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## raducanmihai

I am training but I usually don't run. I sort of semi-run because I had 2 total hip replacements surgeries 5 years ago. I go as fast as posibile uphill (I train on a quite steep ski slope) and sort of jog downhill. I used tools like TrainingPeaks and I managed to finish a few short trail running events in the second half of the middle of the pack (14 km, a skyrace etc). For me, training is as important as general fitness and weight management. That's why I want an A3 Peak (A4 ?) with all the features imaginable. 

I don't go with Garmin because I like Suunto. I had a T6d and an Ambit 2 before I bought the A3 Peak and I like their products. I think they are better from a performance oriented athlete point of view (which I'm not  ) and because they stand behind their products. Last time I contacted Suunto, I had to send only a few pictures of o soon to break A3 Peak strap and they sent me a new one (the watch is in warranty, of course). That's the support I want and I don't think I'd get that from Garmin.


----------



## user_none

EatPlayLift said:


> I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see the harm in including and leave it up to the user to decide for themselves if they'd like to use the feature. There is no harm in including step tracking, but it is an issue (for some) to not include it.


The "harm" is these devices are typically memory limited for firmware. Yeah, I know, memory is dirt cheap these days. Regardless, the software guys have to work within the confines of what they're provided. Also, more memory means more to power and with the tiny battery these watches have, I'd bet every little bit helps when not powering more than necessary.


----------



## manueleltoro

gianky73 said:


> with traverse it's possible change gps fix rate on the fly.
> 
> View attachment 6623338


If this was also possible with the Vertical this might be a good-enough solution for me. Thanks to all for your input. Multisport might be an option when having a break on the peak, but i guess setting the activity to pause would also have a positive effect. I assume setting on pause and resuming is possible within the same activity.

The max. time I need from this watch for my hikes/climbes/ski-touring is around 11-12 hours. Usually 5-8.
As for me, step counter is not an essential feature, but I understand people who want it incorporated since it should be a minor alteration in the software and the watch is obviously capable of providing such information.

After having owned the Fenix3 and returned it due to poor accuracy (for hiking), I am very keen on seeing the first accuracy comparisons vs. Fenix3 and Ambit3 Peak. Until then I'll hold back, but if the thing is nearly as accurate as the other Ambits it'll land in my shopping cart for the Summer mountaineering season.


----------



## HIKESOLO

user_none said:


> The "harm" is these devices are typically memory limited for firmware. Yeah, I know, memory is dirt cheap these days. Regardless, the software guys have to work within the confines of what they're provided. Also, more memory means more to power and with the tiny battery these watches have, I'd bet every little bit helps when not powering more than necessary.


I totally get that. So make it optional. Surely wouldn't tax the battery much if the feature was deactivated.


----------



## martowl

manueleltoro said:


> If this was also possible with the Vertical this might be a good-enough solution for me. Thanks to all for your input. Multisport might be an option when having a break on the peak, but i guess setting the activity to pause would also have a positive effect. I assume setting on pause and resuming is possible within the same activity.
> 
> The max. time I need from this watch for my hikes/climbes/ski-touring is around 11-12 hours. Usually 5-8.
> As for me, step counter is not an essential feature, but I understand people who want it incorporated since it should be a minor alteration in the software and the watch is obviously capable of providing such information.
> 
> After having owned the Fenix3 and returned it due to poor accuracy (for hiking), I am very keen on seeing the first accuracy comparisons vs. Fenix3 and Ambit3 Peak. Until then I'll hold back, but if the thing is nearly as accurate as the other Ambits it'll land in my shopping cart for the Summer mountaineering season.


The comparisons for accuracy between the Ambit3 Peak and fenix 3 have been done, check this. GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips The fenix 3 and Epix have identical GPS hardware so you can see the comparison. More specific comments on the fenix 3 are here. Garmin Fenix 3 Review - Fellrnr.com, Running tips I do not know if the loss of the antenna bump is going to affect the Ambit's accuracy.


----------



## anto1980

Recently I tested the Epix in a trekking. It's a disaster regarding GPS accuracy! It overestimates the distance because it lose continuously the signal between high rocks.
I also tested it on a static test on my window for a night. I like this test and I think is the best to verify the precision.
After 9 hours of recording, it showed over 6km!!! Ambit3 200m and Traverse 50m. I think the Traverse is very reliable combined with the GLONASS.



martowl said:


> The comparisons for accuracy between the Ambit3 Peak and fenix 3 have been done, check this. GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips The fenix 3 and Epix have identical GPS hardware so you can see the comparison. More specific comments on the fenix 3 are here. Garmin Fenix 3 Review - Fellrnr.com, Running tips I do not know if the loss of the antenna bump is going to affect the Ambit's accuracy.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> The comparisons for accuracy between the Ambit3 Peak and fenix 3 have been done, check this. GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips The fenix 3 and Epix have identical GPS hardware so you can see the comparison. More specific comments on the fenix 3 are here. Garmin Fenix 3 Review - Fellrnr.com, Running tips I do not know if the loss of the antenna bump is going to affect the Ambit's accuracy.


Interesting stuff. I haven't had consistent results with a footpod on hills (especially on hikes). Maybe I need to revisit this, although I'd need to get a BT footpod. But only if I can use it for pace, while using GPS for distance. Will the A3 do this?


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> Interesting stuff. I haven't had consistent results with a footpod on hills (especially on hikes). Maybe I need to revisit this, although I'd need to get a BT footpod. But only if I can use it for pace, while using GPS for distance. Will the A3 do this?


The Peak will take both pace and distance from the foot pod while recording a GPS track. I prefer this setup since it allows for reasonable accuracy with 1 min GPS fix. Otherwise the distance is way off if the Ambit uses GPS for distance. The foot pod is not as good as 1 sec fix and I find 10-15% off on trails. The running and walking seem to even each other out. Here is a race I did with 1 min fix and a foot pod with an older Ambit. I did this so I would not have to worry about charging the watch. I have since purchased the Adidas BT footpod on Amazon for about $40.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> The Peak will take both pace and distance from the foot pod while recording a GPS track. I prefer this setup since it allows for reasonable accuracy with 1 min GPS fix. Otherwise the distance is way off if the Ambit uses GPS for distance. The foot pod is not as good as 1 sec fix and I find 10-15% off on trails. The running and walking seem to even each other out. Here is a race I did with 1 min fix and a foot pod with an older Ambit. I did this so I would not have to worry about charging the watch. I have since purchased the Adidas BT footpod on Amazon for about $40.


That's a bummer. I'm very happy with the Peak GPS accuracy. The autolap always record a lap within a few feet of the various landmarks, so don't want to give that up. But real time pacing does leave something to be desired. Perhaps my course isn't hilly enough to worry about lap distance, so I might check out a footpod (although I'm seeing a higher price for that Adidas pod  ).


----------



## gianky73

anto1980 said:


> Recently I tested the Epix in a trekking. It's a disaster regarding GPS accuracy! It overestimates the distance because it lose continuously the signal between high rocks.
> I also tested it on a static test on my window for a night. I like this test and I think is the best to verify the precision.
> After 9 hours of recording, it showed over 6km!!! Ambit3 200m and Traverse 50m. *I think the Traverse is very reliable combined with the GLONASS*.


right, with last update my traverse is very accurate as my peak...


----------



## manueleltoro

martowl said:


> The comparisons for accuracy between the Ambit3 Peak and fenix 3 have been done, check this. The fenix 3 and Epix have identical GPS hardware so you can see the comparison. More specific comments on the fenix 3 are here. I do not know if the loss of the antenna bump is going to affect the Ambit's accuracy.


Thanks for the links, _unfortunately_ I know this comparisons very well. I used to own a Fenix 3 and returned it because of the very poor accuracy for hiking/climbing purposes. For everything else I liked the watch a lot. I combed through pages and pages on the Garmin Forum only finding out that I was not alone with that problem. Comparisons there showed clearly that Ambit 3 was way ahead in terms of accuracy and everyone wondered if this was owed to the "external" GPS antenna. That is also why I did not immediately buy the Traverse since I first wanted to see whether the integration of the GPS sensors in the bezel itself caused any accuracy loss. 
In fact, what I am waiting for are comparisons between Ambit 3 peak and Ambit 3 Vertical recorded tracks to see if it's worthwhile buying this watch. Accuracy is very important for me, not in terms of pace but for accurate distance and altitudes walked/hiked/climbed/ski-toured. I don't like the external GPS antenna, since my wrists are already rather small and I don't want such a huge watch... thus, the Vertical in terms of bezel is exactly what I was hoping for.

I guess first comparisons will be available as soon as the watch is out. I am sure in the Garmin forum people will start comparing since Fenix3/Traverse/Ambit3Vertical are now 3 examples of watches with incorporated GPS sensors.
Are there already comparisons in terms of accuracy between Traverse and 'Ambit3Peak? I have just seen one in this forum (in Sydney if I recall correctly) but no others. If firmware update has made Traverse now more accurate I'd love to see some tracks!


----------



## anto1980

I will post some links of my Traverse Moves!


manueleltoro said:


> Thanks for the links, _unfortunately_ I know this comparisons very well. I used to own a Fenix 3 and returned it because of the very poor accuracy for hiking/climbing purposes. For everything else I liked the watch a lot. I combed through pages and pages on the Garmin Forum only finding out that I was not alone with that problem. Comparisons there showed clearly that Ambit 3 was way ahead in terms of accuracy and everyone wondered if this was owed to the "external" GPS antenna. That is also why I did not immediately buy the Traverse since I first wanted to see whether the integration of the GPS sensors in the bezel itself caused any accuracy loss.
> In fact, what I am waiting for are comparisons between Ambit 3 peak and Ambit 3 Vertical recorded tracks to see if it's worthwhile buying this watch. Accuracy is very important for me, not in terms of pace but for accurate distance and altitudes walked/hiked/climbed/ski-toured. I don't like the external GPS antenna, since my wrists are already rather small and I don't want such a huge watch... thus, the Vertical in terms of bezel is exactly what I was hoping for.
> 
> I guess first comparisons will be available as soon as the watch is out. I am sure in the Garmin forum people will start comparing since Fenix3/Traverse/Ambit3Vertical are now 3 examples of watches with incorporated GPS sensors.
> Are there already comparisons in terms of accuracy between Traverse and 'Ambit3Peak? I have just seen one in this forum (in Sydney if I recall correctly) but no others. If firmware update has made Traverse now more accurate I'd love to see some tracks!


----------



## pjc3

manueleltoro said:


> If firmware update has made Traverse now more accurate I'd love to see some tracks!


Some testing prior to last update


----------



## Teriemer

manueleltoro said:


> I guess first comparisons will be available as soon as the watch is out. I am sure in the Garmin forum people will start comparing since Fenix3/Traverse/Ambit3Vertical are now 3 examples of watches with incorporated GPS sensors. Are there already comparisons in terms of accuracy between Traverse and 'Ambit3Peak? I have just seen one in this forum (in Sydney if I recall correctly) but no others. If firmware update has made Traverse now more accurate I'd love to see some tracks!


Here's a link to a danish one-week review of the A3V vs th A3P. If google translate doesn't make sense, then the outcome is the A3V is on par with A3P in daily training.

Anmeldelse af Suunto Ambit3 Vertical


----------



## morey000

Teriemer said:


> Here's a link to a danish one-week review of the A3V vs th A3P. If google translate doesn't make sense, then the outcome is the A3V is on par with A3P in daily training.
> 
> Anmeldelse af Suunto Ambit3 Vertical


That's a very positive review. to sum it up- the GPS accuracy is as good as the A3P, it gives you the fun ascent display and map of your run screens at the end, and does everything else a Peak does, except the storm warning. And-the packaging is great. downsides: he says that the vibration alert is on the weak side and doesn't make it through is 3 layers of winter clothing, the display is a tad darker, and Battery life- is what it is. 10-15-100.


----------



## manueleltoro

pjc3 said:


> link


These recordings are what I was referring to. The review in Teriemer's link, however, should give us hope for good accuracy. On the other hand, for the Fenix3 the first reviews also showed good accuracy (when in open space, no trees, no tall buildings and in my case no steep mountains in place).

I will hold back from buying it, until I have seen enough camparisons as the ones pjc3 has linked. Looking forward to seeing satellite images comparing Ambit3Peak and Ambit3Vertical. I only expect results as good as those from the peak, then I'm in for this watch


----------



## Pirk

First thoughts from DC Rainmaker: The New Suunto Ambit3 Vertical: An Explainer | DC Rainmaker

I also would like to know:
- What features will the other Ambit3 wathces get if any
- Will it receive a step counter?


----------



## DJFaithful

Pirk said:


> First thoughts from DC Rainmaker: The New Suunto Ambit3 Vertical: An Explainer | DC Rainmaker
> 
> I also would like to know:
> - What features will the other Ambit3 wathces get if any
> - Will it receive a step counter?


Ray had some problems with the gps accuracy it seems. Even his Fenix 3 did a better job.


----------



## Teriemer

DJFaithful said:


> Ray had some problems with the gps accuracy it seems. Even his Fenix 3 did a better job.


Others report same level of accuracy as A3 Peak. Check the comments below the article. For my very first run the other day; zero issues. I'll post more files for info, once they're done.

Also, Ray seems to favor Garmin in most cases. When the F3 came out he didn't find any GPS issues with his unit, though almost everyone else did... Again with the FR630, on the instant pace displaying, once again limited mentioning. I returned the FR630 for the very same reason. Instant was - and still is - totally useless for interval trainings (lags like hell). Try go into a Forrest and you can totally forget it.

So I'd say his input is relative. Wait to judge until more have shared their experiences. Also, note firmware version is 1.0.0. So updates with improvements will come down the road.


----------



## morey000

Teriemer said:


> ...Again with the FR630, ...


Ray (DCRainmaker) posted that same run on Strava with the Garmin 630 yesterday, that looks like the 630, while mostly perfectly on course, had a strange offshoot on one lap. He didn't show the trace from the 630 as part of his Vertical review- but here it is:
https://www.strava.com/activities/474457883

I gather there is no perfection when looking at any watch based GPS units. Some are better than others. 
Then again- I cannot recall seeing a single instance in the past 4000mi of running where my A2 went noticeably off course.

But- it does appear that the Vertical is a bit more in Garmin territory for accuracy than compared to the A2/3 which are possibly the best. Maybe along with the venerable 310xt.


----------



## pjc3

Is GLONASS already implemented in the original firmware? My experience was that it did improve the Traverse.


----------



## dcrainmaker

morey000 said:


> Ray (DCRainmaker) posted that same run on Strava with the Garmin 630 yesterday, that looks like the 630, while mostly perfectly on course, had a strange offshoot on one lap. He didn't show the trace from the 630 as part of his Vertical review- but here it is:
> https://www.strava.com/activities/474457883
> 
> I gather there is no perfection when looking at any watch based GPS units. Some are better than others.
> Then again- I cannot recall seeing a single instance in the past 4000mi of running where my A2 went noticeably off course.
> 
> But- it does appear that the Vertical is a bit more in Garmin territory for accuracy than compared to the A2/3 which are possibly the best. Maybe along with the venerable 310xt.


Just for clarity as to why I didn't show it, it's because that specific FR630 unit was worn on my waist on a Spibelt (just gathering HR data). I figured it was kinda unfair to block GPS signal and then complain about bad signal.

On the subsequent trail/hill run, the FR630 was then re-mounted up on my shoulder straps of my backpack, so I figured that was fair game (and neither it nor the other four GPS units beside the Vertical had issues).


----------



## Teriemer

pjc3 said:


> Is GLONASS already implemented in the original firmware? My experience was that it did improve the Traverse.


No it's not. Suunto's website states it comes in a future update...

Edit: here's my very first run with the A3V. FWIW the tracking is within +/- 3 m at all times, most time even less. Here's the same track, but from my 920XT (glonass off). The 920 is slightly more offset. You can check for yourself ;-)


----------



## morey000

dcrainmaker said:


> Just for clarity as to why I didn't show it, it's because that specific FR630 unit was worn on my waist on a Spibelt (just gathering HR data). I figured it was kinda unfair to block GPS signal and then complain about bad signal.
> 
> On the subsequent trail/hill run, the FR630 was then re-mounted up on my shoulder straps of my backpack, so I figured that was fair game (and neither it nor the other four GPS units beside the Vertical had issues).


Hey- thanks Ray. I didn't know you checked in over here. 
Good info about the 630 location, and giving us an early look at the new Vertical. You're certainly contributing to evidence that the Vertical may not be as accurate on position as its elder siblings. I know you've got a lot of time now with the Traverse- so my guess is that you've amassed a pretty good opinion about its accuracy. Although, once you post- you could single-handedly damage the future of the new Suunto products, when a GLONASS firmware update may dramatically improve their performance the next day. Use your power wisely. 

Keep up the good work.


----------



## dcrainmaker

morey000 said:


> Hey- thanks Ray. I didn't know you checked in over here.
> Good info about the 630 location, and giving us an early look at the new Vertical. You're certainly contributing to evidence that the Vertical may not be as accurate on position as its elder siblings. I know you've got a lot of time now with the Traverse- so my guess is that you've amassed a pretty good opinion about its accuracy. Although, once you post- you could single-handedly damage the future of the new Suunto products, when a GLONASS firmware update may dramatically improve their performance the next day. Use your power wisely.
> 
> Keep up the good work.


I actually haven't quite decided what to do with the Traverse from a post standpoint (I had planned to post way back in December, but then just got overwhelmed with other items that folks found more interesting).

In general, I'm happy to wait days/few weeks for a company to release a major update that they believes dramatically changes a product, prior to posting. However, I try and balance that with consumers unknowingly buying something that lacks a given feature.


----------



## Teriemer

Here's another run I did with the A3V. The whether was overcasted and foggy. During the night we got about 10 cm of snow.

Please share you comments. Personally I'm very satisfied with the A3V. Tracking is definitely good, but even more important (to me), instant pace is totally reliable and responsive to changes. The A3V may end up replacing 920XT...

teriemers 1:04 t Løb Move


----------



## loganb

As another data point, I'm hoping the glonass support or a future firmware update will significantly improve accuracy. I love my ambit2 sapphire but feel the antenna bulge is too much to wear for a daily watch at work. The ambit3 vertical is great as a normal watch looks wise and for fitness. Unfortunately the accuracy does not yet seem to measure up. After >500 moves with my ambit2 sapphire I've been very happy with the accuracy. For the very few runs I've gotten in since getting the ambit3 vertical it has been farther off than my ambit2 ever was each time.

For example, a short run with my girlfriend with the ambit3 vertical (notice the divergence from the trail on the recording):









Almost the same but on a different day with the ambit2 sapphire:









We stopped early but otherwise we ran the same path but in two places it shows us going in places you can't run on the vertical recording.

FWIW, I still love it and have high hopes for the future but, honestly, it does seem less accurate than my ambit2 sapphire. Hopefully that will change but I thought it might be worth mentioning since it has brought me some small sadness and depending on others' priorities or faith in Suunto they may want to wait.

- logan



Teriemer said:


> Here's another run I did with the A3V. The whether was overcasted and foggy. During the night we got about 10 cm of snow.
> 
> Please share you comments. Personally I'm very satisfied with the A3V. Tracking is definitely good, but even more important (to me), instant pace is totally reliable and responsive to changes. The A3V may end up replacing 920XT...


----------



## mharris660

It's aimed at anyone who doesn't need to see the watch face. I gave up on neg displays because of Suunto.


Matteeboy said:


> Looks like it's aimed at mountaineers and climbers?


----------



## Teriemer

loganb said:


> As another data point, I'm hoping the glonass support or a future firmware update will significantly improve accuracy...
> 
> - logan


Now that's a clear indication on some serious issues. I hope Suunto is looking into to this forum as well. You're right about the faith and trust in Suunto's products. So though I don't have any issue (yet, with my just two runs), let's hope for a fix soon. As I recall, the Traverse wasn't that good too just after release, but quickly updates followed and people are now reporting good accuracy.

One other thing; I noticed yesterday that when I'm shaking my A3V, there's a tiny rattle noise inside the watch (and no it's not the clips on the strap). It sounds like a tiny screw ratling around in there?!

Can I ask you (or other A3V owners) to check for that, I'd be much appreciated - thanks


----------



## dcrainmaker

FWIW - On my Sunday morning this morning, the Ambit3 Vertical seemed pretty good. This was a city around and looking at the route I don't notice anything in particular of major concern. About the only thing one could quibble with is the location of the track on the north side of the river is offset perhaps 5m. I was down along the river, the track has me up above. But, given the 2-story concrete wall your running against, this isn't uncommon for GPS watches.

Ambit3 Vertical: https://www.strava.com/activities/477219732
Fenix3: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1025686052


----------



## martowl

mharris660 said:


> It's aimed at anyone who doesn't need to see the watch face. I gave up on neg displays because of Suunto.


ALL of the Ambits have a selectable display. It can be either negative or positive. I use the negative for daily wear and the positive for exercise. It is simple to invert the display.


----------



## loganb

No rattle for me. Build quality seems perfect.

- logan



Teriemer said:


> One other thing; I noticed yesterday that when I'm shaking my A3V, there's a tiny rattle noise inside the watch (and no it's not the clips on the strap). It sounds like a tiny screw ratling around in there?!
> 
> Can I ask you (or other A3V owners) to check for that, I'd be much appreciated - thanks


----------



## loganb

Good to hear. I haven't done many runs with mine yet. Maybe I've just been unlucky with my GPS reception- and the weather has been less than ideal.

Thanks,
- logan



dcrainmaker said:


> FWIW - On my Sunday morning this morning, the Ambit3 Vertical seemed pretty good. This was a city around and looking at the route I don't notice anything in particular of major concern. About the only thing one could quibble with is the location of the track on the north side of the river is offset perhaps 5m. I was down along the river, the track has me up above. But, given the 2-story concrete wall your running against, this isn't uncommon for GPS watches.


----------



## Teriemer

loganb said:


> No rattle for me. Build quality seems perfect.
> 
> - logan


Thanks for your reply Logan. I'll have to send mine back to the shop for a check...


----------



## user_none

mharris660 said:


> It's aimed at anyone who doesn't need to see the watch face. I gave up on neg displays because of Suunto.


Eh? All Ambit's can be either positive or negative display. For other, non-selectable pos/neg, watches I kind of agree. Although, I don't purchase ANY negative only display watches.


----------



## Teriemer

Can't argue much about this tracking I'd say: teriemers 0:56 t Løb Move - I had my 920 with two footpods (two pair of shoes) along for calibrating on the track. I brought the A3V too just for fun. Weather was light rain.

Edit: Here's two almost comparable tracks, most of the route is going through the same area. Tell me which one is best...

A3V: http://www.movescount.com/da/moves/move90439084#calendar-month=2015-10 
A3P: http://www.movescount.com/da/moves/move80004822#table-year=2016


----------



## danielp27

Do you know if vibration can be triggered from an app? I havent seen any changes in the programming reference guide. I wonder if by triggering a beep, also a vibration will be triggered. It seems you cannot either use performance index in apps.


----------



## Teriemer

danielp27 said:


> Do you know if vibration can be triggered from an app? I havent seen any changes in the programming reference guide. I wonder if by triggering a beep, also a vibration will be triggered. It seems you cannot either use performance index in apps.


You can set up both from the PC (I guess the mobile app would work too). Settings are, beep on: All, Buttons off, all off and vibrate on: All, Buttons off, all off


----------



## danielp27

Teriemer said:


> You can set up both from the PC (I guess the mobile app would work too). Settings are, beep on: All, Buttons off, all off and vibrate on: All, Buttons off, all off


thanks, i actually meant from suunto apps. Imagine from instance an app which will remind you when to drink during a marathon. Is it possible to trigger a vibration?


----------



## Teriemer

danielp27 said:


> thanks, i actually meant from suunto apps. Imagine from instance an app which will remind you when to drink during a marathon. Is it possible to trigger a vibration?


I don't think so at the moment. Currently apps are not supporting vibrating yet (to my knowledge). I have created quite a few apps, so I'm not a noob ;-) I checked the other day, and there you couldn't. But I would guess this would be implemented. It should be fairly simple to do. Also to create an app for you to remind you to drink during a marathon is not a big deal.


----------



## danielp27

Teriemer said:


> I don't think so at the moment. Currently apps are not supporting vibrating yet (to my knowledge). I have created quite a few apps, so I'm not a noob ;-) I checked the other day, and there you couldn't. But I would guess this would be implemented. It should be fairly simple to do. Also to create an app for you to remind you to drink during a marathon is not a big deal.


thanks for the info. i hope you are right, Suunto hasnt added any new variables to the apps API since ambit2 time.


----------



## Pirk

New first look at the Vertical:

Last Wednesday, I received my Suunto Ambit3 Vertical. Having a new hardware design - a recycled Traverse - it presents itself more as an Ambit 3.5 than one of the existing range.

https://zestuart.wordpress.com/2016...bit3-vertical-and-thoughts-on-the-ambit-line/


----------



## rdm01

Teriemer said:


> Others report same level of accuracy as A3 Peak. Check the comments below the article. For my very first run the other day; zero issues. I'll post more files for info, once they're done.
> 
> Also, Ray seems to favor Garmin in most cases. When the F3 came out he didn't find any GPS issues with his unit, though almost everyone else did... Again with the FR630, on the instant pace displaying, once again limited mentioning. I returned the FR630 for the very same reason. Instant was - and still is - totally useless for interval trainings (lags like hell). Try go into a Forrest and you can totally forget it.
> 
> So I'd say his input is relative. Wait to judge until more have shared their experiences. Also, note firmware version is 1.0.0. So updates with improvements will come down the road.


100% agree.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## rdm01

Well, I got my new A3 Vertical just today. I did a trail run this afternoon wearing the ambit3 vertical in the right hand and my ambit3 sport in the left one.

It was a 12 km trail run in a winter forest. Ambit3 Sport drew as usual a good track and measured the usual distance too. Ambit3 Vertical distance (12.21 km) is shorter than Ambit3 Sport (12.55 km). MyGPSFiles shows even bigger difference.

Here the comparison

As I said it was my very fist run with it. Will see next days how the distances and tracks are. Traverse users reported accuracy improvements when suunto enabled GLONASS.


----------



## martowl

rdm01 said:


> Well, I got my new A3 Vertical just today. I did a trail run this afternoon wearing the ambit3 vertical in the right hand and my ambit3 sport in the left one.
> 
> It was a 12 km trail run in a winter forest. Ambit3 Sport drew as usual a good track and measured the usual distance too. Ambit3 Vertical distance (12.21 km) is shorter than Ambit3 Sport (12.55 km). MyGPSFiles shows even bigger difference.
> 
> Here the comparison
> 
> As I said it was my very fist run with it. Will see next days how the distances and tracks are. Traverse users reported accuracy improvements when suunto enabled GLONASS.


I looked at these track comparisons and it sure looks like the A3V is rounding out the corners. I for one am sticking with my nub on my A3P....Here's to the nub! Seriously, GLONASS is going to negatively affect the battery and for an already limited battery that seems a big negative for me. One has to assume that this is solely due to the antenna placement since the chips are both either identical or very similar.

I was toying with getting an A3V but I will now wait until I see what the next model from Suunto is. Very happy with my A3P. Funny, I have purchased all of the Ambit upgrades but a downgrade in GPS accuracy will prevent me from upgrading.


----------



## Teriemer

Do you mind linking to your files on movescount (MC)? Distance acrual on MyGPSFiles may not be the same as in MC. For Garmin there can be quite a difference.


----------



## rdm01

Teriemer said:


> Do you mind linking to your files on movescount (MC)? Distance acrual on MyGPSFiles may not be the same as in MC. For Garmin there can be quite a difference.


Sure I'll do! But as I wrote in my post, Ambit3 Vertical distance: 12.21 km vs Ambit3 Sport: 12.55 km

Vertical
Sport


----------



## martowl

rdm01 said:


> Sure I'll do! But as I wrote in my post, Ambit3 Vertical distance: 12.21 km vs Ambit3 Sport: 12.55 km
> 
> Vertical
> Sport


My concern is not so much with the distance, the differences don't matter to me but on MC one can clearly see the A3V is not very accurate along the trails. Since I almost exclusively run trails and off trail, this is a significant concern.


----------



## Teriemer

rdm01 said:


> Sure I'll do! But as I wrote in my post, Ambit3 Vertical distance: 12.21 km vs Ambit3 Sport: 12.55 km
> 
> Vertical
> Sport


Thanks a lot 

Looking at your instant pace, both differs somewhat to each other. Which one would you say is the most right one?


----------



## Teriemer

martowl said:


> My concern is not so much with the distance, the differences don't matter to me but on MC one can clearly see the A3V is not very accurate along the trails. Since I almost exclusively run trails and off trail, this is a significant concern.


I agree with you Martowl. In challenging environments, the Vertical (at least in this case) seems to struggle to keep up with A3S. This sure looks concerning! My A3V is in fact in for an exchange due do some weird rattling noise inside the watch?! Even though I have no issue with my A3V, this is making me think that maybe I should hold my horses a bit on the Vertical and go for good deal on the A3R. That watch can be bought at good prices at the moment and we all know how solid that Ambit line is.


----------



## morey000

Certainly some differences there. If the Blue track (A3S) is 'correct' and the Pink track is just wrong- then that's a bit too inaccurate for me. If the actual track is somewhere in between- then not too bad. The MyGPS difference in distance of 12.7 vs 12.2 Km is 4%. That's the difference of a Mile in a marathon. Ouch.

But- if my other watch upgrade option is the Fenix 3- I'm not sure it's any better.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> I looked at these track comparisons and it sure looks like the A3V is rounding out the corners. I for one am sticking with my nub on my A3P....Here's to the nub! Seriously, GLONASS is going to negatively affect the battery and for an already limited battery that seems a big negative for me. One has to assume that this is solely due to the antenna placement since the chips are both either identical or very similar.
> 
> I was toying with getting an A3V but I will now wait until I see what the next model from Suunto is. Very happy with my A3P. Funny, I have purchased all of the Ambit upgrades but a downgrade in GPS accuracy will prevent me from upgrading.


The nub has to be the difference. Like you, I'm not downgrading accuracy, no matter what I get in return. I'm too spoiled! I'm used to see my mile splits beep at almost exactly the same spot, run after run. To deviate from that, for the sake of getting the latest and greatest, is simply not an option. If someday it can be proven to be beyond a doubt that the newer watches are as accurate as my trusty Peak, then I'll think about upgrading. But until then, I'll be assuming that they are less accurate on the face of the tracks I've seen so far and will not take a chance. Even so, there would have to be a compelling reason to upgrade. All my use is just run and hike and the Peak does just about everything I need (except vibration alerts and a few other small things I wish it would do). Even the battery outlasts my longest day treks, which is more than I could say for the A2.


----------



## rdm01

morey000 said:


> View attachment 6849610
> 
> 
> Certainly some differences there. If the Blue track (A3S) is 'correct' and the Pink track is just wrong- then that's a bit too inaccurate for me. If the actual track is somewhere in between- then not too bad. The MyGPS difference in distance of 12.7 vs 12.2 Km is 4%. That's the difference of a Mile in a marathon. Ouch.
> 
> But- if my other watch upgrade option is the Fenix 3- I'm not sure it's any better.


I'm agree. It's a lot!!! Today I forgot to also wear a F3 I got. In the next days I'll wear three of them in different routes and I'll share all my experiences.

I remember I ran the same route with FR920XT last winter and this year with F3 and distance was also shorter than ambit3. So looks to me a3v is closer to garmin's new model accuracy than the ultra accurate ambit series. Anyway it was only the first route. Maybe it was a a3v bad day...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Teriemer

Teriemer said:


> Even though I have no issue with my A3V...


One input to my experiences with A3V; though I have not seen any accuracy issues yet with my A3V, this could very well be related to wintertime here where I live and the fact that the trees has dropped all their leaves at the moment. I know from spring time, when all leaves are popping out, that all GPS units starts to struggle in the Forrest where I often run. This is giving me concerns for A3 Vertical.

As mentioned earlier; I may cancel my replacement for A3V and opt for a good deal on the A3 Run version. It has all the functions I need. And from history, we know it's damn accurate too. I had the change to do 3 runs with it once and I clearly recall how impressed I was on accuracy - both in distance, tracking and instant pace accuracy. And this is what I need/want. The A3V has to be on par with the old Ambit3's - otherwise I'll not make the change.


----------



## -J-T-A-

rdm01 said:


> Well, I got my new A3 Vertical just today. I did a trail run this afternoon wearing the ambit3 vertical in the right hand and my ambit3 sport in the left one.
> 
> It was a 12 km trail run in a winter forest. Ambit3 Sport drew as usual a good track and measured the usual distance too. Ambit3 Vertical distance (12.21 km) is shorter than Ambit3 Sport (12.55 km). MyGPSFiles shows even bigger difference.
> 
> Here the comparison
> 
> As I said it was my very fist run with it. Will see next days how the distances and tracks are. Traverse users reported accuracy improvements when suunto enabled GLONASS.


It might be better to wear devices in the same wrist when doing comparison.


----------



## rdm01

Second test is done. It was a short run (8 km) in mixed conditions. The beginning in the middle of city buildings (between 5 to 12 flours) and the last kilometer of the go clear sky. Then come back. It was raining. Again ambit3 vertical (8.02 km) in my right hand and ambit3 sport (8.05) in my left. According to movescount a3v track is only 30 meters than a3s. Ambit 3 Sport drew better track.

Movescount links:
Ambit3 Vertical
Ambit3 Sport

MyGPSFiles comparison link


----------



## rdm01

A question for the ambit3 vertical owners. Is the button for creating custom workouts working in your movescount app?

I'm using Android app and the button is missing :-(










deporteporvida.com


----------



## Teriemer

rdm01 said:


> Second test is done. It was a short run (8 km) in mixed conditions. The beginning in the middle of city buildings (between 5 to 12 flours) and the last kilometer of the go clear sky. Then come back. It was raining. Again ambit3 vertical (8.02 km) in my right hand and ambit3 sport (8.05) in my left. According to movescount a3v track is only 30 meters than a3s. Ambit 3 Sport drew better track.
> 
> Movescount links:
> Ambit3 Vertical
> Ambit3 Sport
> 
> MyGPSFiles comparison link


But most noticably, no Forrest / trail running. This is really where it gets hard for any GPS to be accurate. And this is where the old Ambit3 really shows the effect of the antenna nub. FWIW - on the Garmin 920XT; the effect of enabling Glonass is very small. I see minimal change, and instant pace (GPS based) may be slightly better in a Forrest, but tracking accuracy and distance is the same. But then again; this is for the 920XT and the Mediatek GPS chipset. The case may be different for A3V. But I don't see Glonass as the rescue here!


----------



## rdm01

Teriemer said:


> But most noticably, no Forrest / trail running. This is really where it gets hard for any GPS to be accurate. And this is where the old Ambit3 really shows the effect of the antenna nub. FWIW - on the Garmin 920XT; the effect of enabling Glonass is very small. I see minimal change, and instant pace (GPS based) may be slightly better in a Forrest, but tracking accuracy and distance is the same. But then again; this is for the 920XT and the Mediatek GPS chipset. The case may be different for A3V. But I don't see Glonass as the rescue here!


I got also a FR920XT for some months and I was using it in lots of trail running routes. I know it wasn't as accurate than my ambit2, ambit3 peak and ambit3 sport. I'm testing know for almost 3 months a Garmin Fenix 3 unit. In my tests my F3 unit got the same GPS precision than my FR20XT got.

I'm only want to note that Traverse owners reported accuracy improvement in the last firmware update where GLONASS was enabled. Probably they silently also adjust something to improve the GPS accuracy too. I hope the same here. In addition I remember a suunto official tester publishing information about the first runs he did with his ambit3 peak where he said the accuracy were poor. It was before the official availability for sales. After the production firmware update he reported the same precision as his ambit2 and know we know how accurate the ambit3 is.


----------



## Teriemer

rdm01 said:


> ... It was before the official availability for sales. After the production firmware update he reported the same precision as his ambit2 and know we know how accurate the ambit3 is.


By the local dealer (I think are Suunto_DK) here in DK, I was told official release in Europe is Feb. 2nd. I don't if that true. But he told me, they where contactet by Suunto Finland and forced to standby their sales until Feb. 2nd. Before that the very same company posted A3V available from Jan. 15th on their website. This was of course changed afterwards.


----------



## rdm01

Teriemer said:


> By the local dealer (I think are Suunto_DK) here in DK, I was told official release in Europe is Feb. 2nd. I don't if that true. But he told me, they where contactet by Suunto Finland and forced to standby their sales until Feb. 2nd. Before that the very same company posted A3V available from Jan. 15th on their website. This was of course changed afterwards.


I read Jan. 15th was the date for USA marke and Feb. 2nd will be for Europe. I got mine from UK store. Maybe they did a parallel import from the States... maybe not.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

rdm01 said:


> I remember a suunto official tester publishing information about the first runs he did with his ambit3 peak where he said the accuracy were poor. It was before the official availability for sales. After the production firmware update he reported the same precision as his ambit2 and know we know how accurate the ambit3 is.


That may have been me. Software tweaks there can really make quite a difference. On that point, I also continue to wonder if one of the reasons we see different tracks from Traverse vs. Ambits mightn't be that they use slightly different algorithms to determine whether a trackpoint should be recorded as new or disregarded as an accuracy error. Something like this seems to make quite a difference on trail runs, switchbacking up/down mountains.

Also, it definitely does make a difference when you wear one device on each wrist. But, it also has an influence when you wear both on the same wrist and too close together versus some distance apart!

Anyways, I also got a Vertical for testing now and plan on heading for the forested mountains during February. Gonna put it through its paces the way it's supposed to be done, IMO.... and otherwise be a good sport and not say my opinion of what's been published so far...


----------



## rdm01

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> That may have been me. Software tweaks there can really make quite a difference. On that point, I also continue to wonder if one of the reasons we see different tracks from Traverse vs. Ambits mightn't be that they use slightly different algorithms to determine whether a trackpoint should be recorded as new or disregarded as an accuracy error. Something like this seems to make quite a difference on trail runs, switchbacking up/down mountains.
> 
> Also, it definitely does make a difference when you wear one device on each wrist. But, it also has an influence when you wear both on the same wrist and too close together versus some distance apart!
> 
> Anyways, I also got a Vertical for testing now and plan on heading for the forested mountains during February. Gonna put it through its paces the way it's supposed to be done, IMO.... and otherwise be a good sport and not say my opinion of what's been published so far...


Actually you were ;-)

deporteporvida.com


----------



## bruceames

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> That may have been me. Software tweaks there can really make quite a difference. On that point, I also continue to wonder if one of the reasons we see different tracks from Traverse vs. Ambits mightn't be that they use slightly different algorithms to determine whether a trackpoint should be recorded as new or disregarded as an accuracy error. Something like this seems to make quite a difference on trail runs, switchbacking up/down mountains.


They adjusted the Peak's recording rate to where it records a track point with much more frequency (basically every second at running speed and every 2-3 seconds walking). On switchbacks and trails with lots of turns, that's a good thing. However I have noticed that the Traverse records track points much less frequently, leading to cutting corners on switchbacks and tight turns in general. That's very odd for a watch that's marketed for the trekking crowd. Like a double whammy for accuracy loss. Fewer track points and a less robust antenna.


----------



## morey000

bruceames said:


> ... the Traverse records track points much less frequently, leading to cutting corners on switchbacks ....


If this is the primary cause of the track error we've seen- it's an easy fix then. (presuming that Suunto decides to address it)


----------



## bruceames

morey000 said:


> If this is the primary cause of the track error we've seen- it's an easy fix then. (presuming that Suunto decides to address it)


I think the antenna is the primary cause (see the track separation in the straights), but yeah it would certainly help the track look better where there are tight turns and/or switchbacks.

According to the tracks above, the Sport is recording a point every second, which the Vertical (and I guess Traverse too) is only every 3 seconds. Looking at a past run I did, the Ambit2 was recording a point every 4 seconds, but likely that one second difference is due to the slower pace I did (6.1 mph vs. 8.3). So it's probably using the same recording algorithm as the Ambit2.


----------



## pjc3

bruceames said:


> So it's probably using the same recording algorithm as the Ambit2.


Nope. As discussed before:Suunto Traverse - Page 51


----------



## bruceames

Wow I forgot about that one. Thanks for the correction pjc3.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

bruceames said:


> I think the antenna is the primary cause (see the track separation in the straights)


"Track separation" as in: tracks not running the same but having an offset between them (one looking to be more left, another more right, than they should be)?

That's easy enough to also (a little less strongly, but similarly) get wearing two Ambits as long as their antenna bumps are not pointing in the exact same angle, let alone if worn on separate wrists. Which shows how crazy some* of our discussions here are becoming (as in, how they've started actually being about the limits of GPS reception outside of differential GPS systems, not just different antenna designs/devices)...

*(Of course, there's also the points where there are reception errors, and knowing more about those does make a difference. They may be a systematic problem with bezel antennas, after all.)

Anybody else notice, really, how funny these things are going, though?

First the antenna bump is a big cause of complaints about the look and fit, now it's a "hey, don't change that!"

First the rapid switch from A1 to A2 causes bile and ire to erupt, then it subsides with A2 to A3, now it's a "why isn't there another generation of Ambits already?!?"


----------



## Teriemer

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> ...
> Anybody else notice, really, how funny these things are going, though?
> 
> First the antenna bump is a big cause of complaints about the look and fit, now it's a "hey, don't change that!"
> 
> First the rapid switch from A1 to A2 causes bile and ire to erupt, then it subsides with A2 to A3, now it's a "why isn't there another generation of Ambits already?!?"


Ironic - isn't


----------



## bruceames

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> "Track separation" as in: tracks not running the same but having an offset between them (one looking to be more left, another more right, than they should be)?
> 
> That's easy enough to also (a little less strongly, but similarly) get wearing two Ambits as long as their antenna bumps are not pointing in the exact same angle, let alone if worn on separate wrists. Which shows how crazy some* of our discussions here are becoming (as in, how they've started actually being about the limits of GPS reception outside of differential GPS systems, not just different antenna designs/devices)...
> 
> *(Of course, there's also the points where there are reception errors, and knowing more about those does make a difference. They may be a systematic problem with bezel antennas, after all.)
> 
> Anybody else notice, really, how funny these things are going, though?
> 
> First the antenna bump is a big cause of complaints about the look and fit, now it's a "hey, don't change that!"
> 
> First the rapid switch from A1 to A2 causes bile and ire to erupt, then it subsides with A2 to A3, now it's a "why isn't there another generation of Ambits already?!?"


Hi Gerald,

Yeah, a track with more (out-an-back) offset is probably going to be less accurate than one with less offset. Sure angle will affect it but I don't think you can pass off the V's poorer offset to being in a worse position on one's wrist (or on the other arm). Not if it happens all the time in comparisons.

I do remember quite a few A1 members complaining about the A2 and not getting feature updates anymore (and they even created a Movescount user group). Personally I don't think it's crazy to complain about a new Suunto watch that has reduced accuracy. If you want crazy, then look at the Fenix forums. It's a big deal to some people, myself included (of course not as much as if I owned the Vertical or Traverse, but my interest and concern is that the A4 will use a bezel as well and thus be less accurate). Suunto watches are highly regarded for their accuracy and reliability and if anything GPS accuracy should be improving with succeeding generations, not the other way around.


----------



## rdm01

Hi folks!

I went for a run (not trail running) this morning wearing only my A3V. I wanted to do a simple test I used to do with all my gps watches. The test consists in run some kilometers then turn back and run to the start doing the same route. Autolap 1 km enabled. During the run back I check if the autolap beeps are in the same places they supposed to be. After the run I check in movescount if they are proper marked.

The weather today was very cloudy, foggy and light rain in some parts of the run. The run was 9 km go and 9 km back. I'm impressed how accurate the track and the autolap marks were. Also tracks and distance looks to me as accurate than previous runs I did with my others ambits.

Maybe tomorrow I'll go for a trail run wearing A3V, A3S and Fenix 3... maybe not. If yes I'll post more info

Here the link to movescount move


----------



## rdm01

Today I went for a trail run again. It was almost the same I did some days ago. I wore 3 watches: ambit3 sport, ambit3 vertical and fenix 3. Both of ambits did a very good job with great GPS accuracy. Actually fenix 3 also did.

One thing I noted when I'm export ambit3 vertical in gpx format from movescount is these files are the half on size then the gpx I got from the ambit3 sport for the same route activity. Both of them are 1 s recording with best gps accuracy in configuration. What do you think about that?

Movescount: Ambit3 Vertical 12.84 km vs Ambit3 Sport 12.91 km
Garmin Connect: Fenix 3 12.56 Km
Vertical
Sport
Fenix 3
MyGPSFiles comparison


----------



## DJFaithful

rdm01 said:


> Today I went for a trail run again. It was almost the same I did some days ago. I wore 3 watches: ambit3 sport, ambit3 vertical and fenix 3. Both of ambits did a very good job with great GPS accuracy. Actually fenix 3 also did.
> 
> One thing I noted when I'm export ambit3 vertical in gpx format from movescount is these files are the half on size then the gpx I got from the ambit3 sport for the same route activity. Both of them are 1 s recording with best gps accuracy in configuration. What do you think about that?
> 
> Movescount: Ambit3 Vertical 12.84 km vs Ambit3 Sport 12.91 km
> Garmin Connect: Fenix 3 12.56 Km
> Vertical
> Sport
> Fenix 3
> MyGPSFiles comparison


The Fenix 3 is about 2% different if you go by Garmin Connect, which I'd say is acceptable, especially considering the conditions. The interesting this is how mygps calculated a distance from the garmin file that is much more in keeping with the other two.


----------



## rdm01

DJFaithful said:


> The Fenix 3 is about 2% different if you go by Garmin Connect, which I'd say is acceptable, especially considering the conditions. The interesting this is how mygps calculated a distance from the garmin file that is much more in keeping with the other two.


Yes, I noted the same. All of them did well today.

deporteporvida.com


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## Teriemer

rdm01 said:


> Today I went for a trail run again. It was almost the same I did some days ago. I wore 3 watches: ambit3 sport, ambit3 vertical and fenix 3. Both of ambits did a very good job with great GPS accuracy. Actually fenix 3 also did.
> 
> One thing I noted when I'm export ambit3 vertical in gpx format from movescount is these files are the half on size then the gpx I got from the ambit3 sport for the same route activity. Both of them are 1 s recording with best gps accuracy in configuration. What do you think about that?
> 
> Movescount: Ambit3 Vertical 12.84 km vs Ambit3 Sport 12.91 km
> Garmin Connect: Fenix 3 12.56 Km
> Vertical
> Sport
> Fenix 3
> MyGPSFiles comparison


Well - if you zoom in, one can see the F3 is offset a bit, whereas the A3S looks a lot more in line with the map. Whether it matters or not, I'm not to tell. The Vertical seems slightly more smoothed out compared to F3. But the Vertical is also offset a bit.

The A3S is clearly the most accurate one.


----------



## rdm01

And what do you think guys about the big difference in file sizes?

deporteporvida.com


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## Teriemer

For accuracy, I don't think the F3 did very well. I'm calculating an difference of 2,7% vs. the A3S (say the A3S i's the most accurate). That's 844 m on a marathon - or put in another way - 41,35 km when in goal. I don't think that's good enough. I know I would be very disappointed, if that happened to me. But hey - that's my opinion ;-)


----------



## bruceames

rdm01 said:


> And what do you think guys about the big difference in file sizes?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Although both watches are set at 1 second GPS fix, only the Sport is actually recording track points every second. So the reason the Vertical GPX file is smaller is because it recorded only about half the points (every 2 seconds or so?). You can check the file to see what the actual intervals were.


----------



## DJFaithful

Teriemer said:


> For accuracy, I don't think the F3 did very well. I'm calculating an difference of 2,7% vs. the A3S (say the A3S i's the most accurate). That's 844 m on a marathon - or put in another way - 41,35 km when in goal. I don't think that's good enough. I know I would be very disappointed, if that happened to me. But hey - that's my opinion ;-)


Your logic is flawed (as was mine in the earlier post). The benchmark should be the known distance of the trail, not another watch's result. Running a marathon, one should not care what one's running mate's watch has calculated. One should care whether the watch measured 26.21m. We have no idea how far the a3s is off from the actual distance, and in what direction, long or short.


----------



## bruceames

DJFaithful said:


> Your logic is flawed (as was mine in the earlier post). The benchmark should be the known distance of the trail, not another watch's result. Running a marathon, one should not care what one's running mate's watch has calculated. One should care whether the watch measured 26.21m. We have no idea how far the a3s is off from the actual distance, and in what direction, long or short.


It's very unlikely that you'll run only 26.21 in a certified marathon course, unless you cut all the tangents and do absolutely no wavering on the course (for example, passing people). So that's not a very good benchmark either since everyone is running a (slightly) different distance.


----------



## Teriemer

DJFaithful said:


> Your logic is flawed (as was mine in the earlier post). The benchmark should be the known distance of the trail, not another watch's result. Running a marathon, one should not care what one's running mate's watch has calculated. One should care whether the watch measured 26.21m. We have no idea how far the a3s is off from the actual distance, and in what direction, long or short.


You're right about a true known distance, if one wants to do a valid test. But this was just a simple test, as which many are. And there's just this one thing about it, the A3 has a long track history in being very accurate and MyGPSFiles measured all three watch-files to 13,0 to 13,1 km and the A3S was the closest one. It's known the F3 has it difficulties with accuracy, so I'm not surprised.

But let's get back to topic, about the performance of the Vertical and not a competitor ;-)


----------



## DJFaithful

bruceames said:


> It's very unlikely that you'll run only 26.21 in a certified marathon course, unless you cut all the tangents and do absolutely no wavering on the course (for example, passing people). So that's not a very good benchmark either since everyone is running a (slightly) different distance.


Of course. My point is that if one is going to comment on the "accuracy" of a watch as Teriemer did, one needs to judge it against the known distance of the path taken. Since the watches were so closely spaced, this "test" doesn't tell us much at all. One would need to have that course measured with a wheel first.


----------



## Teriemer

bruceames said:


> It's very unlikely that you'll run only 26.21 in a certified marathon course, unless you cut all the tangents and do absolutely no wavering on the course (for example, passing people). So that's not a very good benchmark either since everyone is running a (slightly) different distance.


Indeed it is. But being off with 1/2 a mile (or 850 meters) is just too much in my opinion.


----------



## bruceames

Teriemer said:


> Indeed it is. But being off with 1/2 a mile (or 850 meters) is just too much in my opinion.


Yes I agree a 2% error is too much for a marathon race on open roads. In a hike over mountainous terrain in heavy forest though it would be acceptable to me due to the more demanding conditions.


----------



## HIKESOLO

So do you think this officially means no Ambit 4 in the near future? This Vertical release shocked me to be honest.


----------



## JonnoBird

A3V arrives in a couple of days. Looking forward to replacing my War Horse Garmin 305...like replacing a Windows NT machine with a Mac. Schweet!


----------



## Teriemer

EatPlayLift said:


> So do you think this officially means no Ambit 4 in the near future? This Vertical release shocked me to be honest.


Yes - I don't see an Ambit4 in the near future. Looking at the Kailash; the watch does not add any significant hardware update (in my perspective) besides from the antenna nub being removed. The display is still monochrome, though in a greyscale, and featurewise, not much is new except from the specific model. But maybe this is also Suunto's strategy?! Don't change anything that works. And honestly said; a color screen wouldn't add functionality but only colors. The same goes for a higher resolution screen. It's nicer to look at, but the current display is not that bad.

Just my 2 cent


----------



## rdm01

Another trail run. Go and back route. Only wore A3V. Distance not bad. Track isn't good

http://www.movescount.com/moves/move91770665

I'm going to stop doing trail running tests until suunto launch a firmware update to enable 1 sec recording or gps/glonass improvements

Here the same route nine days ago with my ambit3 sport

http://www.movescount.com/moves/move90821137

deporteporvida.com


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## HIKESOLO

Question regarding the total ascent graphic on the watch (the one that breaks it down by week, year, etc)...does this combine ascent data from ALL sport modes? Or does it only show vertical data for running? Or can you individually pick which sport modes make up that data?


----------



## rdm01

EatPlayLift said:


> Question regarding the total ascent graphic on the watch (the one that breaks it down by week, year, etc)...does this combine ascent data from ALL sport modes? Or does it only show vertical data for running? Or can you individually pick which sport modes make up that data?


Looks to me a combination of all sports modes. I have done only runs and trail runs and all of them add meters to the ascent graphic.


----------



## Teriemer

rdm01 said:


> Another trail run. Go and back route. Only wore A3V. Distance not bad. Track isn't good
> 
> http://www.movescount.com/moves/move91770665
> 
> I'm going to stop doing trail running tests until suunto launch a firmware update to enable 1 sec recording or gps/glonass improvements
> 
> Here the same route nine days ago with my ambit3 sport
> 
> RicardoDiazMartin's 0:57 h Trail running Move
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I checked your route by exporting a gpx file and import to RWGPS showing OSM (Open Street Maps). It's clear to see that outside to Forrest, the Vertical does track fine. Once in the Forrest, the Vertical starts offset quite a lot from the trail (take a close look on the screendump)

I sure hope this can be fixed in an update.


----------



## Teriemer

Here's the same screendump, but with A3S:

Wauv - what a difference!


----------



## rdm01

Teriemer said:


> Here's the same screendump, but with A3S:
> 
> Wauv - what a difference!
> 
> View attachment 6897762


Really a big difference. After today no more tests until suunto updates a3v firmware.


----------



## bruceames

rdm01 said:


> Really a big difference. After today no more tests until suunto updates a3v firmware.


Exactly what I've been thinking. A3V (and Traverse) do just fine in the open areas, but once in the trees then that's where you really see the difference between it and the traditional Ambits. Hopefully it's correctable by an update or two, but I suspect there's only so much you can do with the bezel antenna design.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Having just looked at Suunto's February calendar image (featuring the Vertical), I guess the solution is easier than an update:

Just get above the treeline!

(Advantage of not getting as many comments from writing as many tech reviews: more time to joke around here  )


----------



## DJFaithful

Teriemer said:


> I checked your route by exporting a gpx file and import to RWGPS showing OSM (Open Street Maps). It's clear to see that outside to Forrest, the Vertical does track fine. Once in the Forrest, the Vertical starts offset quite a lot from the trail (take a close look on the screendump)
> 
> I sure hope this can be fixed in an update.
> 
> View attachment 6897746


It's probably offsetting because the watch is having to rely on the accelerometer more, due to less accurate gps signal, presumably due to the bezel antenna. The Fenix 3 does the same thing. Think for a moment how this must work. There must be an algorithm used to decide when to write a GPS derived data point to memory, and when not to and use the accelerometer data instead. I think offset tracks are created sometimes on purpose by these watches, in order to sacrifice track accuracy for more accurate distance measurement. Rdmo1, what were the distances out and back?


----------



## rdm01

DJFaithful said:


> It's probably offsetting because the watch is having to rely on the accelerometer more, due to less accurate gps signal, presumably due to the bezel antenna. The Fenix 3 does the same thing. Think for a moment how this must work. There must be an algorithm used to decide when to write a GPS derived data point to memory, and when not to and use the accelerometer data instead. I think offset tracks are created sometimes on purpose by these watches, in order to sacrifice track accuracy for more accurate distance measurement. Rdmo1, what were the distances out and back?


4.77 km go
5.12 km back


----------



## HIKESOLO

Does anyone know if the white version is the same size as the other versions (specifically strap length) or is it a women's version with smaller specs? I know in the past some of the white versions had shorter strap lengths.


----------



## DJFaithful

rdm01 said:


> 4.77 km go
> 5.12 km back


Hmmm. Not so good. What would be great is if the manufacturers included a port on the watch that would accept an external antenna, for times when one needs greater sensitivity, as in trail running in the forest.


----------



## rdm01

Hi there!

I found today something strange... Settings for all the activity profiles in my A3V shows GPS accuracy set to Maximum: 20 hours. Since battery life for maximum GPS accuracy is 10 hours I think if there's something related with the 2 seconds interval saving we see in gpx files.

I attach Movescount app for Android in Spanish.










deporteporvida.com


----------



## zipuni

EatPlayLift said:


> Does anyone know if the white version is the same size as the other versions (specifically strap length) or is it a women's version with smaller specs? I know in the past some of the white versions had shorter strap lengths.


I have both a Black and a White A3V and yes, definitely the white strap is shorter than the black. The material (soft silicone) is the same on both.

If you want, I can measure them when I get home and report with more details.


----------



## Larry115

EatPlayLift said:


> Does anyone know if the white version is the same size as the other versions (specifically strap length) or is it a women's version with smaller specs? I know in the past some of the white versions had shorter strap lengths.


Hi
im interested in the Garmin Fenix 3 and the Suunto Ambit3 vertical. I will be using it for swim, bike , run and snowboard and casual wear. It will be kinda a toy as well as way way to log my fitness. Which do you all recommend and which is better quality. Might be splitting hairs who know....
thank you
Larry


----------



## HIKESOLO

zipuni said:


> EatPlayLift said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the white version is the same size as the other versions (specifically strap length) or is it a women's version with smaller specs? I know in the past some of the white versions had shorter strap lengths.
> 
> 
> 
> I have both a Black and a White A3V and yes, definitely the white strap is shorter than the black. The material (soft silicone) is the same on both.
> 
> If you want, I can measure them when I get home and report with more details.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer but I have a large wrist so I should probably go with the black. Question though, are you able to easily remove the straps? Wondering if it would be compatible with a Zulu/Nato style strap.


----------



## bruceames

rdm01 said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I found today something strange... Settings for all the activity profiles in my A3V shows GPS accuracy set to Maximum: 20 hours. Since battery life for maximum GPS accuracy is 10 hours I think if there's something related with the 2 seconds interval saving we see in gpx files.
> 
> I attach Movescount app for Android in Spanish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> deporteporvida.com


No, the battery life as regards to the GPS is related to the fix rate, not the record rate. 
I think it's going to make little (or no) difference how often it actually stores each fix point.

I believe the Vertical battery (and the Traverse) is the same size as the Sport, which AFAIK is 10 hours @ 1 sec. fix rate, not 20 hours. But let us know if you get more than that if you ever get a chance.


----------



## pjc3

Larry115 said:


> Hi
> im interested in the Garmin Fenix 3 and the Suunto Ambit3 vertical. I will be using it for swim, bike , run and snowboard and casual wear. It will be kinda a toy as well as way way to log my fitness. Which do you all recommend and which is better quality. Might be splitting hairs who know....
> thank you
> Larry


Both are good pieces. Considering you asked on a Suunto forum, the answer here will be A3. Ask on the Garmin forum and the answer will be fenix. :-d


----------



## pjc3

bruceames said:


> Exactly what I've been thinking. A3V (and Traverse) do just fine in the open areas, but once in the trees then that's where you really see the difference between it and the traditional Ambits. Hopefully it's correctable by an update or two, but I suspect there's only so much you can do with the bezel antenna design.


Every dog has its (bad) day. A3S. Light tree cover.

Out and back. Back was the shocker (yellow/orange).


----------



## bruceames

pjc3 said:


> Every dog has its (bad) day. A3S. Light tree cover.
> 
> Out and back. Back was the shocker (yellow/orange).
> 
> View attachment 6918946


That looks awful. I wonder what happened. Personally I only go out into the woods during hikes and only do about 6-8 hikes a year. They are mostly pretty long though (last year I did 150 trekking miles). And since I wear a backpack with a chest strap, I find it easier to read the A3 when it's strapped on my chest, rather than on my wrist. Also I believe I get better reception from that vantage point as well and so have never experienced a really bad track like that. Sometimes I guess it's just about impossible to get a good track from a wrist-based GPS.


----------



## morey000

Larry115 said:


> Hi
> im interested in the Garmin Fenix 3 and the Suunto Ambit3 vertical. I will be using it for swim, bike , run and snowboard and casual wear. It will be kinda a toy as well as way way to log my fitness. Which do you all recommend and which is better quality. Might be splitting hairs who know....
> thank you
> Larry


Fenix 3 is better looking (subjective), has more features (color screen, watch faces, IQapps, etc), and is a reliability basket case with questionable GPS accuracy. But, they're up to firmware beta version 6.63 or thereabouts- and should get most of the major issues solved. Although the GPS accuracy is what it is. 
The Ambit 2/3 (peak or sport, or run) is a rock solid workhorse. Stable, one of the most accurate GPS in a watch. Oh, and now quite a bit cheaper. I'd call it a feature, but some wouldn't; in order to change displays and many of the settings- you need to do it from your computer or phone. on the F3 you can do everything from the watch. (so, then when your watch crashes after you've uploaded 4 screens with 4 variables a piece for 8 sports into your watch... you lose it all)

the newly packaged and featured 'vertical' is nice. Only downsides relative to the prior Ambit3's are a seemingly slightly poorer GpS accuracy (which may get improved with a firmware update), and the battery life of the 'sport' rather than 'peak'. (i.e. 10hrs vs 20hrs in 1sec mode). On the plus side- you get the Altitude/climb tracking features, the vibration alert, no antenna bump, and a $460 price tag.


----------



## James Haury

Hello Suunto Ambit 3 vertical.He reaches out and shakes it by the strap


----------



## morey000

morey000 said:


> F... is a reliability basket case with questionable GPS accuracy. But, they're up to firmware beta version 6.63 or thereabouts- and should get most of the major issues solved. ....


correction. they're now on firmware beta version 6.72.


----------



## HIKESOLO

Seems like a great watch!


----------



## Teriemer

EatPlayLift said:


> ...No more watch purchases for me for at least 6 months, haha.


Was that before or after the purchase of A3V ;-)


----------



## Lexel

Just got my A3V today and i'm surprised to see that Quick Recovery Test and Sleep Test are not in the watch, they are both mentioned in the manual...
and heuuuu ok we just don't talk about the fu.... missing baro for an outdoor vertical watch...


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Lexel said:


> Just got my A3V today and i'm surprised to see that Quick Recovery Test and Sleep Test are not in the watch, they are both mentioned in the manual...
> and heuuuu ok we just don't talk about the fu.... missing baro for an outdoor vertical watch...


Missing baro: because it's all made for those verticals, I guess would be the (silly) answer.

Recovery tests, though, are why I'm writing: Check again? Start button -> Recovery -> and there are the two tests.


----------



## rdm01

Lexel said:


> Just got my A3V today and i'm surprised to see that Quick Recovery Test and Sleep Test are not in the watch, they are both mentioned in the manual...
> and heuuuu ok we just don't talk about the fu.... missing baro for an outdoor vertical watch...


The tests are there: start/stop -> recovery

deporteporvida.com


----------



## RedMoses

I used to have an X-Lander, these are great watches. The new features are fantastic but i prefer the older design.


----------



## Lexel

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Missing baro: because it's all made for those verticals, I guess would be the (silly) answer.
> 
> Recovery tests, though, are why I'm writing: Check again? Start button -> Recovery -> and there are the two tests.


double and triple checked wasn't here.... until i pair the hr belt (the Recovery item was no visible in the menu)


----------



## rdm01

Lexel said:


> double and triple checked wasn't here.... until i pair the hr belt (the Recovery item was no visible in the menu)


Could you check in your movescount app if Workout Planner button is enabled? In my movescount for android is missing :-( Tested in Nexus 6 and Note 4

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Lexel

rdm01 said:


> Could you check in your movescount app if Workout Planner button is enabled? In my movescount for android is missing :-( Tested in Nexus 6 and Note 4
> 
> deporteporvida.com


yes it is ok


----------



## rdm01

Lexel said:


> yes it is ok


Are you using iOS or Android?


----------



## JonnoBird

Question: I have Vibration set to All On, but I don't get vibration from iPhone notifications. Is there some other setting I need to enable this?

Question: I'm a bit fuzzy on interaction between iPhone and A3V when starting a new Move. If I start it on the iPhone, it will not start it on A3V, but will record a move, along with HR sensor data. It will not record bike pod data. If I start the move from A3V, A3V will properly record HR and bike sensors data, but nothing happens on the iPhone. (although I could be mistaken in these observations). Is this correct?

Thanks in advance from a new A3V owner. BTW, using Wahoo Fitness Blue SC bike sensor, which easily paired to A3V. Just ordered a second Blue SC for another bike.


----------



## user_none

Lexel said:


> .... missing baro for an outdoor vertical watch...


Wait, what?? Suunto is advertising on their website, in the spec section, that the Ambit3 Vertical has a barometer and uses FusedAlti like the Peak.


----------



## margusl

user_none said:


> Wait, what?? Suunto is advertising on their website, in the spec section, that the Ambit3 Vertical has a barometer and uses FusedAlti like the Peak.


Check weather section - http://www.suunto.com/Compare-Products/?products=12654;14483


----------



## DJFaithful

margusl said:


> Check weather section - Compare Products


What were Suunto thinking with that omission? Whew.


----------



## Lexel

JonnoBird said:


> Question: I have Vibration set to All On, but I don't get vibration from iPhone notifications. Is there some other setting I need to enable this?


The vib for iphone notification is just too slow/short (don't know how to define it) to feel it



JonnoBird said:


> Question: I'm a bit fuzzy on interaction between iPhone and A3V when starting a new Move. If I start it on the iPhone, it will not start it on A3V, but will record a move, along with HR sensor data. It will not record bike pod data. If I start the move from A3V, A3V will properly record HR and bike sensors data, but nothing happens on the iPhone. (although I could be mistaken in these observations). Is this correct?
> 
> Thanks in advance from a new A3V owner. BTW, using Wahoo Fitness Blue SC bike sensor, which easily paired to A3V. Just ordered a second Blue SC for another bike.


if you want to use the watch and the phone you have to use the "second screen" function, is it the one you used in your test ?


----------



## HIKESOLO

It does have a barometer. It uses it as part of the barometric altimeter to determine altitude. It simply omits the weather data as this feature is reserved for the Peak. So this is better than gps altitude but certain features typically found in watches containing barometers aren't included.


----------



## DJFaithful

EatPlayLift said:


> It does have a barometer. It uses it as part of the barometric altimeter to determine altitude. It simply omits the weather data as this feature is reserved for the Peak. So this is better than gps altitude but certain features typically found in watches containing barometers aren't included.


I believe this called "decontenting." It's even worse since the hardware is there, so it's simply a software issue. Here's the description of the Peak from the Suunto website. Quite ironic I think.

The journey to your summit is what it's all about - whether it's a mountain or a personal best. The Suunto Ambit3 Peak is your ultimate GPS watch for sports and adventure. It guides you every step of the way, providing all you need to progress and stay safe on your quest.


----------



## DJFaithful

EatPlayLift said:


> It does have a barometer. It uses it as part of the barometric altimeter to determine altitude. It simply omits the weather data as this feature is reserved for the Peak. So this is better than gps altitude but certain features typically found in watches containing barometers aren't included.


I believe this called "decontenting." It's even worse since the hardware is there, so it's simply a software issue. Here's the description of the Peak from the Suunto website. Quite ironic I think.

"The journey to your summit is what it's all about - whether it's a mountain or a personal best. The Suunto Ambit3 Peak is your ultimate GPS watch for sports and adventure. It guides you every step of the way, providing all you need to progress and stay safe on your quest."


----------



## pjc3

Traverse focuses on barometric trends, Vertical focuses on altitude trends, Peak does it all. Marketing niches.


----------



## JonnoBird

Lexel said:


> The vib for iphone notification is just too slow/short (don't know how to define it) to feel it.
> ---
> if you want to use the watch and the phone you have to use the "second screen" function, is it the one you used in your test ?


Ah, OK. Hopefully they will address that. You are right - it's easy to miss a notification.
---
No, I somehow missed the 'second screen' function. How do you enable that? My experience gave me this understanding - please correct it if I'm wrong:
* When you start a move on the A3V (indoor cycling with Wahoo bike pod and Suunto HR Smart Sensor), the Movescount IOS app starts showing current HR rate. (I didn't see a 2nd screen option or display choice options, but it's very possible I overlooked something).
* When you start a move on the IOS app, the A3V doesn't seem to participate - it's as if it doesn't know a move is started. It continues to display in Time Mode. (This tells me that a move should always be started on the A3V and then the iPhone can optionally be used as a second screen.)

Again, I could have this wrong. I'm still trying to GROK the design of this hardware/software product. Thanks!


----------



## cerzet

JonnoBird said:


> No, I somehow missed the 'second screen' function. How do you enable that?


See Vertical manual, 3.22.1 Second display on phone.


----------



## cerzet

Got fed up with Polar's inability to make Flow even semi-decent, and I really need auto-sync to TrainingPeaks, so I just ordered a Vertical. My 1st Suunto ever, ha. The removal of the wristband hump and addition of vibration alerts finally got me. Have had a bunch of Garmins and Polars, even a TomTom, so well aware of the fact that they all have their limitations.

Still have a V800, a Vivoactive and a 510, so it'll be interesting to see how they compare. Have an officially measured and well defined route of just below a mile I test distance on. Nothing extreme, but a mix of sharp turns, straights, open views and steep hill/trees on the side. A bit of everything, but very flat. The V800 and the TomTom Multisport usually come very close, within +5-25m, the Garmins tend to measure a bit longer, +15-45m. The best of the Garmins was a 305, back in 2006/7, so I'm not that impressed. Can't run at the moment and the route is covered in a bit of snow and ice, so might have to walk with the Suunto now and do a run later, when Glonass is enabled. The V800 isn't going anywhere yet though, so plenty of time to test, later in the spring.


----------



## JonnoBird

cerzet said:


> See Vertical manual, 3.22.1 Second display on phone.


Got it, thanks. I missed the Movescount software section in the manual, and was looking for in-app help or website help on the app. Thanks again.


----------



## SteveToro

Hi Guys!
I am a new Suunto owner and found forum 
I have a problem syncing workouts from the iOS app to my A3V - the default workout does not get deleted and a new one does not show up.
Anyone else with this problem? Do you have any ideas how to fix it?
Thanks in advance!


----------



## Sheldon007

Hello, I bought one week ago an A3V and I test it and GPS accuracy is really bad. Anyone have some info about when the new firmware will be release ? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Lexel

SteveToro said:


> Hi Guys!
> I am a new Suunto owner and found forum
> I have a problem syncing workouts from the iOS app to my A3V - the default workout does not get deleted and a new one does not show up.
> Anyone else with this problem? Do you have any ideas how to fix it?
> Thanks in advance!


sounds like the same bug i had with the peak before 2.0.45, 
just wait for a fw or movescount app update...


----------



## rdm01

SteveToro said:


> Hi Guys!
> I am a new Suunto owner and found forum
> I have a problem syncing workouts from the iOS app to my A3V - the default workout does not get deleted and a new one does not show up.
> Anyone else with this problem? Do you have any ideas how to fix it?
> Thanks in advance!


Workout planner not working in Android's movescount. Missing button.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## rdm01

Sheldon007 said:


> Hello, I bought one week ago an A3V and I test it and GPS accuracy is really bad. Anyone have some info about when the new firmware will be release ? Thanks in advance.


Hi Shekdon007,

Have you also got another Ambit3 (peak or sport) to compare the accuracy or is your feelings? Did you repeat the same route many times to compare them? Could you share the links to these moves?

After two weeks testing A3V I could say that A3V accuracy isn't so good as A3 peak/sport but still not so bad to say it's unusable.

Anyway I hope suunto improve it!

deporteporvida.com


----------



## user_none

cerzet said:


> Got fed up with Polar's inability to make Flow even semi-decent, and I really need auto-sync to TrainingPeaks, so I just ordered a Vertical. My 1st Suunto ever, ha. The removal of the wristband hump and addition of vibration alerts finally got me. Have had a bunch of Garmins and Polars, even a TomTom, so well aware of the fact that they all have their limitations.
> 
> Still have a V800, a Vivoactive and a 510, so it'll be interesting to see how they compare. Have an officially measured and well defined route of just below a mile I test distance on. Nothing extreme, but a mix of sharp turns, straights, open views and steep hill/trees on the side. A bit of everything, but very flat. The V800 and the TomTom Multisport usually come very close, within +5-25m, the Garmins tend to measure a bit longer, +15-45m. The best of the Garmins was a 305, back in 2006/7, so I'm not that impressed. Can't run at the moment and the route is covered in a bit of snow and ice, so might have to walk with the Suunto now and do a run later, when Glonass is enabled. The V800 isn't going anywhere yet though, so plenty of time to test, later in the spring.


From the ones in your list, the V800 was ranked as the most accurate among the GPS watches, and even edging out the Ambit3.

GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Some Ambit3 Vertical videos up (youtube), if you've wanted to see how the altitude profile visualization/tracking works, especially. (Kinda is *the* main new feature, after all.)

Also, two tracks each from Ambit3 Peak, Ambit3 Vertical, and Traverse, in the mountains: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z_6nDQqja5m8.kCO6TvSmm8wA&usp=sharing


----------



## cerzet

user_none said:


> From the ones in your list, the V800 was ranked as the most accurate among the GPS watches, and even edging out the Ambit3.


Thanks, I've seen it and my own tests support it, but didn't really get a Vertical for hope of better accuracy. I suppose I would be dissapointed if it was worse than the Vivoactive though. Not much trail running for me and no mountains around here, so I really hope the new antenna + Glonass will work out. Also swim and bike regularly and do an occasional tri now and then, so look forward to check out Suunto's implementations of these.


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Some Ambit3 Vertical videos up (youtube), if you've wanted to see how the altitude profile visualization/tracking works, especially. (Kinda is *the* main new feature, after all.)
> 
> Also, two tracks each from Ambit3 Peak, Ambit3 Vertical, and Traverse, in the mountains: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z_6nDQqja5m8.kCO6TvSmm8wA&usp=sharing


Thanks for the tracks and the video, Gerald, very helpful.


----------



## Teriemer

cerzet said:


> Thanks, I've seen it and my own tests support it, but didn't really get a Vertical for hope of better accuracy. I suppose I would be dissapointed if it was worse than the Vivoactive though. Not much trail running for me and no mountains around here, so I really hope the new antenna + Glonass will work out. Also swim and bike regularly and do an occasional tri now and then, so look forward to check out Suunto's implementations of these.


Then the Vertical will suit you just fine. The Vertical tracks on par with the old A3 series out in the open (well maybe a micro-slightly poorer if you zoom in to super detailed, but that has no effect). So I'm sure that in your case, yo'll be just fine. The only case where it struggles is when it gets challenging. Only in this case, the old A3's are better.


----------



## cerzet

From the specs:
"GLONASS ... will be available later via a software update."

Didn't Traverse get Glonass support a couple of months ago already? You'd figure it wouldn't be a big deal to add, given that this is pretty much the same hw. Oh well...


----------



## j--l

Anyone got any idea why there seems to be limitation of the apps you can run during workout. On Peak models it's 5 and on Vert just 1 (as per Suunto sit).


----------



## rdm01

j--l said:


> Anyone got any idea why there seems to be limitation of the apps you can run during workout. On Peak models it's 5 and on Vert just 1 (as per Suunto sit).


I didn't try in my Vertical but it you check http://www.suunto.com/Compare-Products/?products=12654;14483 it's 5 too.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## j--l

^ Yes, either I made error earlier, or that has been changed. So it is also 5. I am wondering between A3P vs A3V and trying to determine if there is any difference in the App functionality (capability). I went to MC and tried to create App which uses the advanced editor. I had a var suunto_ascent in my test App. This apparently ruled out the Vertical as not compatible. So I am wondering what is the difference in that sense really? I am planning to create some Apps and would not like to be anyway limited if I go with the Vertical. Any insights or experiences appreciated.


----------



## j--l

j--l said:


> So I am wondering what is the difference in that sense really? I am planning to create some Apps and would not like to be anyway limited if I go with the Vertical. Any insights or experiences appreciated.


Well, there are some differences, mentioned in Suunto's site as "Create own metrics with advanced formulas" which is marked as not available on the Vertical.


----------



## Teriemer

j--l said:


> Well, there are some differences, mentioned in Suunto's site as "Create own metrics with advanced formulas" which is marked as not available on the Vertical.


I have created some apps, that I do use a lot. For instance "Manual Lap Timer" or "Manual Lap Distance" - the latest versions of these are private due to testing. But both these apps work independent of Autolap. That is, they work while Autolap is enabled and are not triggered by Autolap. They're only triggered by your manual press on lap. Also the manual lap no. is shown in the postfix area.

However - those two key Suunto_functions - that is "SUUNTO_MANUAL_LAP_DURATION" and "SUUNTO_MANUAL_LAP_DISTANCE" are not supported by the Vertical. For what ever reason, I don't get that. But these two apps doesn't work with A3V. There may be more Suunto_functions that are not compatible, but I don't know of these (yet).

PS - this issue, together with the GPS performance in tough areas, was the reason for me to return my A3V and get an A3S. The A3S is just a well known solid performer in that perspective.


----------



## bruceames

I thought it odd too that the V won't support apps with advanced formulas (meaning anything with exponents). The Ambit 1 was the same way, and starting with the 2 you have do advanced formulas. Why revert to simple formula capability with the V? I don't get that either.


----------



## zipuni

Teriemer said:


> However - those two key Suunto_functions - that is "SUUNTO_MANUAL_LAP_DURATION" and "SUUNTO_MANUAL_LAP_DISTANCE" are not supported by the Vertical. For what ever reason, I don't get that. But these two apps doesn't work with A3V. There may be more Suunto_functions that are not compatible, but I don't know of these (yet).


This is so disappointing :-( The state of App development was already pretty bad (nothing much has changed since Ambit 2) and now with those incompatibilities things are simply worse. I have developed some A3P apps and I am curious how many of those work on A3V ...


----------



## cerzet

As a Suunto noob, where does that leave us then, regarding manual laps? Are you saying that a button press register a lap, but on the same time restarts the auto-lap? Which I actually would be ok with.


----------



## Teriemer

zipuni said:


> This is so disappointing :-( The state of App development was already pretty bad (nothing much has changed since Ambit 2) and now with those incompatibilities things are simply worse. I have developed some A3P apps and I am curious how many of those work on A3V ...


Go to your apps and click "edit" - click on the VERIFY button next to the code. There you can see which Suunto's are compatible. On mine two mentioned apps, there's a red cross "X" next to Vertical. And this means, while in the display settings for the watch, those apps are not in the list "My Apps"...!

In fact I asked Suunto, why that function is not supported? Here's their answer (and yes - I have read the manual!): 


> Hi Suunto
> 
> Why is it that the A3V doesn't support the SUNNTO function in the APP generator that's named "SUUNTO_MANUAL_LAP_TIMER" or _DISTANCE?
> 
> Note on the screen capture that the function is beeing used and the VERFIY button marks VERTICAL with a red "X". I've found out this is due to those two mentioned SUUNTO functions.
> 
> A have a few apps where I use this function to do manual created laps. It's a function I'm really happy to use, so please enable that for the A3V.





> ANSWERS
> While we are not able to provide extensive support for the App Designer, we would like to recommend that you use the App Designer manual in order to help you in your app creation: http://dcjitw11p57ya.cloudfront.net/downloads/SuuntoAppZoneDeveloperManual.pdf
> 
> As for the function, we would like to thank you for your feature suggestion! This will be forwarded to our developers and hopefully support for this function will be added to the app designer in a future update of our services!


And I agree - its a totally NO-GO from me, for the Vertical, if this keeps unsupported.


----------



## pjc3

Hazard a guess that advanced formula are not available as the limited processing power of the A3V is used for the embedded "vertical" metrics and display?


----------



## JonnoBird

I posted this question/comment at Product support

"CAN NOTIFICATION VIBRATION TIME BE EXTENDED?It's easy to miss a notification on the Ambit3 Vertical because vibration is so short as to not be noticeable (not even sure there *is* a vibration) and the beep is quick. The watch only holds the notification for a few seconds before it returns to time mode. Request is to turn on vibration notification and extend the display time of the notification by two seconds. This feature is important enough that it should be addressed in the next firmware update if at all possible. Thank you."

I received this reply via email from Diana_at_Suunto, although the reply is not posted on the Suunto website:

"While this feature is not currently available in the current version, we thank you for your feedback in regards to this. This will be forwarded to our developers and hopefully included in a future update!"

If you agree, please upvote the question at the Suunto site. Thanks.


----------



## JonnoBird

Question, in Movescount, in Select What You Want to Display, Choose What to Show in This Row...

Movescount lets you assign multiple items to a single row, for example, Pool Swimming shows 5 attributes assigned to the bottom row of the first screen (default I think). There's a msg on that Movescount screen that says "Note: you can select maximum of 5 items." so that is intentional. I'm used to an old Garmin where one data field is assigned to each position on each screen, and there are multiple screens that are set to auto-scroll. I know A3V can be set up the same way, but how does it work when you have multiple items set to one row of one screen? (I'd experiment but a quick answer might benefit others too, and yes I did RTFM. Thanks in advance.)


----------



## silentvoyager

JonnoBird said:


> how does it work when you have multiple items set to one row of one screen?


When you have multiple items selected to the bottom row they can be switched by pressing View button. That works for the bottom row of any screen.
The same applies to some standard screens. For example, pressing View button on Navigation screen switches between navigation modes.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

JonnoBird said:


> Question, in Movescount, in Select What You Want to Display, Choose What to Show in This Row...
> 
> Movescount lets you assign multiple items to a single row, for example, Pool Swimming shows 5 attributes assigned to the bottom row of the first screen (default I think). There's a msg on that Movescount screen that says "Note: you can select maximum of 5 items." so that is intentional. I'm used to an old Garmin where one data field is assigned to each position on each screen, and there are multiple screens that are set to auto-scroll. I know A3V can be set up the same way, but how does it work when you have multiple items set to one row of one screen? (I'd experiment but a quick answer might benefit others too, and yes I did RTFM. Thanks in advance.)


And the auto-scroll just treats the multiple "views" in the bottom line as defaulting to the first attribute that is shown there, i.e. it scrolls between the displays, but not between views. For those, you'd still have to hit the "view" button. (So, if you never want to push buttons because you have auto-scroll active, treat it like the Garmin and don't set up more than one attribute to be shown in the bottom line.)


----------



## rdm01

JonnoBird said:


> I posted this question/comment at Product support
> 
> "CAN NOTIFICATION VIBRATION TIME BE EXTENDED?It's easy to miss a notification on the Ambit3 Vertical because vibration is so short as to not be noticeable (not even sure there *is* a vibration) and the beep is quick. The watch only holds the notification for a few seconds before it returns to time mode. Request is to turn on vibration notification and extend the display time of the notification by two seconds. This feature is important enough that it should be addressed in the next firmware update if at all possible. Thank you."
> 
> I received this reply via email from Diana_at_Suunto, although the reply is not posted on the Suunto website:
> 
> "While this feature is not currently available in the current version, we thank you for your feedback in regards to this. This will be forwarded to our developers and hopefully included in a future update!"
> 
> If you agree, please upvote the question at the Suunto site. Thanks.


I'm agree with you that vibration alert is extremely soft. Autolap fires 3 semi-long vibration alerts and shows the lap data during 2 seconds.

I don't know if I'm getting more sensitive with that or vibration alerts are getting stronger with the use (happens with my Fenix 3) but now it's very unusual when I miss one of them.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## cerzet

I like the size of the Vertical, but the V800 screen is better, brighter and with more contrast, more difference than in the photo. Suunto's software, both on Movescount and on the watch, is more mature, Polar has a long way to go still. Only dissapointment so far is the much talked about GPS accuracy. Fine in open, flat landscapes (pic 3), but struggles on pine wood trails (pic 2). Where is that Glonass support they promised? Might help.

1.







2.







3.


----------



## rdm01

I also noted today there's a bug you can't navigate to a POI during an activity. You can set navigation to a POI but the navigation screen isn't added no more.

If I try navigate to POI when I'm not registering any activitiy the screen is added as ambit3 run/peak/sport does.

This is the missing screen when you set navigation to POI during an activity. 









I reported the issue to suunto.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

That took a bit longer, but I wasn't going to write a review that doesn't really look at *the* new feature of the Vertical.

Instead, here goes: All About Those Verticals&#8230; Suunto Ambit3 Vertical Review

Enough detail for y'all, even without any unboxing photos?


----------



## morey000

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> That took a bit longer, but I wasn't going to write a review that doesn't really look at *the* new feature of the Vertical.
> 
> Instead, here goes: All About Those Verticals&#8230; Suunto Ambit3 Vertical Review
> 
> Enough detail for y'all, even without any unboxing photos?


Good review Gerald. And I learned something. I had been waiting for the vertical display in the MovesCount Route Planner that Suunto announced months ago, and didn't realize how to access it. Just select the MapBox display! So- for me, the biggest change is that Movescount got an update.  Thanks


----------



## bruceames

Thanks, vertical display in MC is very helpful.


----------



## paul1928

user_none said:


> From the ones in your list, the V800 was ranked as the most accurate among the GPS watches, and even edging out the Ambit3.
> 
> GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


Someone please lend Jonathan from fellrnr a Vertical so he can test it!


----------



## betana

Hi, i am Emanuele from Italy and i am a new A3V user. Someone have problem with app ? Only a few of them works, the other i can save on my account but i cannot put on watch; for example app like temperature doesnt work ( to see the temperature on the watch suunto says me to download an app, but i know that i can see the temperature also if i sinc my watch with the app)


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## martowl

I have a question about the Vertical that has not been answered in the review by Gerald but I could have missed it. When using the vertical route profile is the watch then forced to 1 sec GPS fix no matter what the initial sampling rate? I know this is the case for the Peak but wondering if this has changed or not.


----------



## rdm01

martowl said:


> I have a question about the Vertical that has not been answered in the review by Gerald but I could have missed it. When using the vertical route profile is the watch then forced to 1 sec GPS fix no matter what the initial sampling rate? I know this is the case for the Peak but wondering if this has changed or not.


It should be that way but the truth is the data recorded every 2 second. I think that's the main reason between accuracy deferences, but only my thoughts.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## martowl

rdm01 said:


> It should be that way but the truth is the data recorded every 2 second. I think that's the main reason between accuracy deferences, but only my thoughts.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


My favorite implementation was the original Ambit where, when Nav screen was visible, the GPS fix switched automatically to 1sec and then when a different screen was selected one returned to the original GPS fix.

On current Ambits, the GPS fix switches to 1 sec when Navigation is activated and will stay on 1 sec until Navigation is quit. This is not ideal for ultra running and I much preferred the former implementation.

So my question is if the Vertical operates similar to the Peak. If you activate the vertical route navigation does the watch switch to the best GPS fix, reducing battery life to only 10h if you want to use the vertical route profile?


----------



## rdm01

martowl said:


> My favorite implementation was the original Ambit where, when Nav screen was visible, the GPS fix switched automatically to 1sec and then when a different screen was selected one returned to the original GPS fix.
> 
> On current Ambits, the GPS fix switches to 1 sec when Navigation is activated and will stay on 1 sec until Navigation is quit. This is not ideal for ultra running and I much preferred the former implementation.
> 
> So my question is if the Vertical operates similar to the Peak. If you activate the vertical route navigation does the watch switch to the best GPS fix, reducing battery life to only 10h if you want to use the vertical route profile?


I didn't try but I think the ambit2 and 3 still having the same behavior you noted on ambit1.

BTW I know some guys they create two different spot modes. One of them 1 sec recording and the second 5 seconds or more. During the route they use the multisport ability to switch between one or the second mode.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## martowl

rdm01 said:


> martowl said:
> 
> 
> 
> My favorite implementation was the original Ambit where, when Nav screen was visible, the GPS fix switched automatically to 1sec and then when a different screen was selected one returned to the original GPS fix.
> 
> On current Ambits, the GPS fix switches to 1 sec when Navigation is activated and will stay on 1 sec until Navigation is quit. This is not ideal for ultra running and I much preferred the former implementation.
> 
> So my question is if the Vertical operates similar to the Peak. If you activate the vertical route navigation does the watch switch to the best GPS fix, reducing battery life to only 10h if you want to use the vertical route profile?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't try but I think the ambit2 and 3 still having the same behavior you noted on ambit1.
> 
> BTW I know some guys they create two different spot modes. One of them 1 sec recording and the second 5 seconds or more. During the route they use the multisport ability to switch between one or the second mode.
> 
> deporteporvida.com
Click to expand...

I am aware of all of that and how to switch modes. BTW the behavior is not implemented now as I described for the Ambit1. Now, if you activate Navigation you are automatically changed to 1s GPS fix until you quit Navigation. Early with the Ambit1 1sec GPS fix was triggered only when the Navigation screen was visible. That is not the case now.

I still would like an answer to my original question. If you have a Vertical it is a simple test. If not would someone who has one reply? Thanks.


----------



## JonnoBird

I posted to Suunto support Q&A, but it hasn't shown up yet. I'm observing this, using two Wahoo Fitness BlueSC bike cadence/speed sensors, which Suunto pairs as Bike Pods. Bike 1's sensor works fine, Bike 2's cadence works fine, but speed is not seen/reported by A3V. If I pair Bike 2's sensor as Bike 1, cadence/speed is seen fine. If I pair Bike 1's sensor as Bike 2 to A3V, it only reports cadence. If I use the Wahoo Fitness iPhone Utility software to check the function of the cadence/speed sensors, both sensors report bike cadence and speed. My conclusion is that there's a bug in the A3V's software, where Bike 1 sensor will report cadence/speed, but the sensor paired with Bike 2 has the A3V only seeing the cadence data and not the speed data. This is obviously an issue, especially when the A3V is set to auto-pause, so the move never starts because the Bike2 sensor for indoor cycling activity never sees the speed go above 0. Again, I posted this to the Suunto Q&A section for the A3V, but it hasn't been reviewed yet or posted. It would be great if someone validated my observations and reported them to Suunto if they observed similar. IMO, it needs to be addressed in the next firmware update.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

martowl said:


> I have a question about the Vertical that has not been answered in the review by Gerald but I could have missed it. When using the vertical route profile is the watch then forced to 1 sec GPS fix no matter what the initial sampling rate? I know this is the case for the Peak but wondering if this has changed or not.


Unless they changed the complete navigation/GPS behavior to be like that of the Traverse, which I'm pretty sure they haven't, it forces you into (1 sec) "best" GPS fix rate all the same as the other items of the navigation. (The altitude profile tracking is just another new display within the navigation display's "views", replacing the "next waypoint" screen you'd have on the earlier/other Ambits)


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Unless they changed the complete navigation/GPS behavior to be like that of the Traverse, which I'm pretty sure they haven't, it forces you into (1 sec) "best" GPS fix rate all the same as the other items of the navigation. (The altitude profile tracking is just another new display within the navigation display's "views", replacing the "next waypoint" screen you'd have on the earlier/other Ambits)


Thanks Gerald. Another reason not to buy. 10h battery is too short for me.


----------



## HIKESOLO

I've been on the search for my perfect watch combo for quite some time. I'm constantly searching for good deals online and it's driven my wife a bit crazy, haha. I had recently picked up a black A3 Vertical with HR for $450 (which I thought was a good deal) but decided to sell it before I ended up using it only because I felt a bit guilty for spending the money. After I sold it though I came across the opportunity to purchase a brand new A3 Vertical (Black with HRM bundle) for only $296! I thought it was too good to be true but I now have the watch and it indeed is legit. A year or so ago I came across a Core Crush with green strap for only $170 (brand new as well). I threw on a couple custom 2 piece nylon straps and I think I now have my ideal watch combo for any adventure! Total (including straps) I paid $496 for this setup. The A3 Vertical with HR bundle alone retails for $519. So I'd consider myself a lucky man. This pic is from instagram, so it might make a few things look weird, but here is my setup!


----------



## rdm01

EatPlayLift said:


> I've been on the search for my perfect watch combo for quite some time. I'm constantly searching for good deals online and it's driven my wife a bit crazy, haha. I had recently picked up a black A3 Vertical with HR for $450 (which I thought was a good deal) but decided to sell it before I ended up using it only because I felt a bit guilty for spending the money. After I sold it though I came across the opportunity to purchase a brand new A3 Vertical (Black with HRM bundle) for only $296! I thought it was too good to be true but I now have the watch and it indeed is legit. A year or so ago I came across a Core Crush with green strap for only $170 (brand new as well). I threw on a couple custom 2 piece nylon straps and I think I now have my ideal watch combo for any adventure! Total (including straps) I paid $496 for this setup. The A3 Vertical with HR bundle alone retails for $519. So I'd consider myself a lucky man. This pic is from instagram, so it might make a few things look weird, but here is my setup!
> 
> View attachment 7167850


$296!! WTF!!!!!! I paid 410€ for mine one month ago :-(

deporteporvida.com


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## HIKESOLO

I know! It was crazy. So I had gotten one, but decided to sell it before I used it. I actually sold it to a member on the forums here. After selling it though, I figured I'd monitor things to see if I could get a better deal. I came across one on Ebay where the guy was selling a brand new A3 Vertical with HR for $470. At that price it didn't interest me, especially since I just sold one around that price. But after a day the guy must have lost his patience and transferred the buy it now setup to a 24 hour auction with no reserve. Apparently not enough people know about the Vertical yet because there was very little interest. With one second left in the auction I put in a max bid of $325 and I ended up winning it for $290 plus $6 shipping. I was concerned it was a fake, or used, or defective, but I now have the watch and it is 100% for sure legit, real, and unused. Still can't believe I pulled this off, haha.

Also, I stashed away the $225 I saved on this for a future Suunto  One that is rumored to possibly be here in June, haha.


----------



## cerzet

I earlier suggested Vertical missed a turn on a trail. Had not been there in a while with a Garmin or Polar, but looking at older sessions it looks more like an OSM map error. The Vertical GPS track is not bad at all. These are from different sessions, going in different directions and speed, but I might redo this with all 3, once Glonass is enabled.


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## HIKESOLO

Ahh crap. The wife is NOT happy with me over my most recent purchase. We are going on vacation next week and is livid that I'd spend that much money on a watch when I already have others, haha. 

If anyone is interested in a brand new Suunto A3 Vertical feel free to DM me. I'll give you a great price. I already installed the stock strap back on it and it hasn't been used in an activity or worn for more than 5 minutes.


----------



## rdm01

EatPlayLift said:


> Ahh crap. The wife is NOT happy with me over my most recent purchase. We are going on vacation next week and is livid that I'd spend that much money on a watch when I already have others, haha.
> 
> If anyone is interested in a brand new Suunto A3 Vertical feel free to DM me. I'll give you a great price. I already installed the stock strap back on it and it hasn't been used in an activity or worn for more than 5 minutes.


Bad luck man :-( But interesting wife noted you got a new watch. When I bought A3S blue as replacement to my A3P Black she didn't note at all and I wear as may day-to-day watch. Then I bought a Fenix 3 Silver with red strap and she didn't not. And now I bought the A3V and she didn't note yet XD. She really hates the technology in the same way I love it ;-)

deporteporvida.com


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## HIKESOLO

I posted the same picture from this thread in Instagram. Unfortunately she follows me there, haha. We booked a trip to Disney (which is a small fortune) so she is keeping eagle eyes on our bank account, haha.


----------



## Teriemer

EatPlayLift said:


> I posted the same picture from this thread in Instagram. Unfortunately she follows me there, haha. We booked a trip to Disney (which is a small fortune) so she is keeping eagle eyes on our bank account, haha.


I feel with you mann ;-)


----------



## paul1928

Sounds like you guys need to upgrade your wives next...

And mine would be so angry to see me say that.


----------



## rdm01

paul1928 said:


> Sounds like you guys need to upgrade your wives next...
> 
> And mine would be so angry to see me say that.


XDXDXD

deporteporvida.com


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## gijom

Absolutely. I also own both the Vertical and the Wahoo BlueSC pod and could not get the speed to be shown on the watch. I provided details of the issue on the DCRAINMAKER blog for the watch. Suunto support acknowledged the problem and promised a fix in next firmware release (no date though). What is interesting in your post is that you apprently found a workaround by using another slot (bike1 vs. bike2). I thought I did that experiment already but may have messed up. I will definitely try again tonight and update the forum. Thanks!


----------



## gijom

JonnoBird said:


> I posted to Suunto support Q&A, but it hasn't shown up yet. I'm observing this, using two Wahoo Fitness BlueSC bike cadence/speed sensors, which Suunto pairs as Bike Pods. Bike 1's sensor works fine, Bike 2's cadence works fine, but speed is not seen/reported by A3V. If I pair Bike 2's sensor as Bike 1, cadence/speed is seen fine. If I pair Bike 1's sensor as Bike 2 to A3V, it only reports cadence. If I use the Wahoo Fitness iPhone Utility software to check the function of the cadence/speed sensors, both sensors report bike cadence and speed. My conclusion is that there's a bug in the A3V's software, where Bike 1 sensor will report cadence/speed, but the sensor paired with Bike 2 has the A3V only seeing the cadence data and not the speed data. This is obviously an issue, especially when the A3V is set to auto-pause, so the move never starts because the Bike2 sensor for indoor cycling activity never sees the speed go above 0. Again, I posted this to the Suunto Q&A section for the A3V, but it hasn't been reviewed yet or posted. It would be great if someone validated my observations and reported them to Suunto if they observed similar. IMO, it needs to be addressed in the next firmware update.


Absolutely. I also own both the Vertical and the Wahoo BlueSC pod and could not get the speed to be shown on the watch. I provided details of the issue on the DCRAINMAKER blog for the watch. Suunto support acknowledged the problem and promised a fix in next firmware release (no date though). What is interesting in your post is that you apprently found a workaround by using another slot (bike1 vs. bike2). I thought I did that experiment already but may have messed up. I will definitely try again tonight and update the forum. Thanks!


----------



## HIKESOLO

Ahh screw it. I'm keeping the watch. I'll sell some older stuff to make up the difference and get the wife some flowers, haha.


----------



## gijom

gijom said:


> Absolutely. I also own both the Vertical and the Wahoo BlueSC pod and could not get the speed to be shown on the watch. I provided details of the issue on the DCRAINMAKER blog for the watch. Suunto support acknowledged the problem and promised a fix in next firmware release (no date though). What is interesting in your post is that you apprently found a workaround by using another slot (bike1 vs. bike2). I thought I did that experiment already but may have messed up. I will definitely try again tonight and update the forum. Thanks!


I did make the experiments I mentioned above. Last time I tried to pair to bike pod 1 & 2. It did not help. I did the same today and then paired again to bike pod 3 and it made the trick. I now get the speed on top of cadence. Thanks for hinting me to the workaround. I informed Suunto support of the new findings and suggested that they have a look at the watchuseek forum which I hope they are already doing...


----------



## danielp27

i have been playing around with the app editor to try to find out why an app i have done is not compatible with vertical (and traverse). i was considering upgrading to one of those.
well, the thing is that you cannot use vertical speed in apps for any of these two watches. :-s
i dont get it.

Suunto.Pow is not supported by A3Vertical either. but Traverse DOES support Suunto.Pow();
anyway vertical supports exp and log. therefore Suunto.pow(x,y) is equivalent to Suunto.exp(y*Suunto.log(x)). so there is a workaround for this one.
vertical does not support SUUNTO_USER_HEIGHT (although it does support SUUNTO_USER_WEIGHT). i cannot imagine why. seems like a bug.


View attachment 7253074


PS since a couple of weeks i somehow cannot get pics automatically displayed in the forum, but just a link?


----------



## JonnoBird

Thanks, gijom, for following up with Suunto and getting them to acknowledge the Bike1/Bike2 bug.

Not related, but while using the 2nd screen function of Movescount on my iPhone 5, I observed the screen freezing. Shutting the app and restarting it fixed it. This happened several times within a span of 20 minutes or so. That makes this software feature not very useful. Hard to know where the problem is...Movescount software, busy iPhone (other software impeding), bluetooth busyness (Wahoo BlueSC plus A3V), or ? Anyways, just another data point.

Other than these small bugs, overall the units been pretty good for running, cycling, and indoor cycling activities. I haven't trained it to recognize pool strokes yet, so it is confused about what it sees there, although the distances are spot on. Next up, paragliding.


----------



## paul1928

On my old Ambit 3 Sport, if I had "good" GPS accuracy (ie, ~5sec, lasts 15hours) but had navigation activated, it only upgraded to "best" GPS accuracy (ie, ~1sec, lasts 10hours) if I had the navigation screen up. So I could still activate a route with way points, but leave the watch showing another screen, have the way points pop up as needed, but the GPS was always only running at "good" accuracy and lasted 15hours.

Anyone know what the go is with the Vertical? In a mode set to "good" GPS accuracy, if Navigation is running does it _always_ stay at "best" even if navigation isn't the active screen it will it stay at "good" until the screen is active like the 3 Sport?


----------



## paul1928

paul1928 said:


> Anyone know what the go is with the Vertical? In a mode set to "good" GPS accuracy, if Navigation is running does it _always_ stay at "best" even if navigation isn't the active screen it will it stay at "good" until the screen is active like the 3 Sport?


And to answer my own question: No, the Ambit3 Vertical will always stay at Best "1s" recording when Navigation is enabled, unlike the 3S and 2S which only upgrade from Good to Best when the navigation screen is shown, otherwise it stays at Good 5s.

I put "1s" in parenthesis because so far I haven't seen the Vertical log GPS points in a track close to 1s intervals. The Vertical's Best "1s" seems only slightly better than the Peak's Good 5s.


----------



## martowl

paul1928 said:


> And to answer my own question: No, the Ambit3 Vertical will always stay at Best "1s" recording when Navigation is enabled, unlike the 3S and 2S which only upgrade from Good to Best when the navigation screen is shown, otherwise it stays at Good 5s.
> 
> I put "1s" in parenthesis because so far I have never seen the Vertical log GPS points in a track anything close to 1s intervals. The Vertical's Best "1s" seems roughly equivalent to the Peak's Good 5s.
> 
> And I'm also not getting anywhere close to the 10h battery - even with vibrate and all apps turned off. The 3S gets bang on 10h in similar terrain.
> 
> Overall, a bit disappointed with the Ambit3 Vertical.


Sorry to hear that. The Nav behavior is the same as on the Ambit3 Peak. The older peaks were the same as your older sport. I much preferred only having 1s fix on when the Nav screen was showing. I suspect the change occurred when Suunto implemented track back as this requires a high quality route to provide a return track. I thought about purchasing the Vertical but I am glad I did not. I need the battery life anyway as many of my races are 24-30h long.

I hope that the replacement for the Peak does not degrade GPS signal.

BTW, I am Brad Olwin on Movescount and on Stryd user group.


----------



## paul1928

martowl said:


> I hope that the replacement for the Peak does not degrade GPS signal.
> 
> BTW, I am Brad Olwin on Movescount and on Stryd user group.


Hey Brad. 

I obviously missed when the navigation changed. I must've been using the Peak by that firmware release and I'm yet to run a race >20 hours so it never leaves "Best" mode.

Re: replacement for the Peak and degradation of the GPS signal, I suspect Suunto are using the Vertical to beta-test, tweak and optimise the new bezel-mounted GPS chipset so they've got it as good as it'll get for the first Ambit 4 release. I can't see them going back to the old bump in future releases. Perhaps enabling GLONASS will make a difference (while likely impacting battery life further though) - although feedback from the Fenix 3 users suggests it doesn't make a huge difference for them.


----------



## HIKESOLO

I gotta say I'm enjoying my Vertical very much. I've owned many Suunto watches and this is my favorite so far. I'm not a heavy user compared to many of you, but as far as having a watch I can wear 24/7 that I can take on my walks & hikes, the Vertical fits the bill perfectly for me. You can easily swap straps without fear of damaging the pin holes/lugs (unlike the Traverse) and it feels very light and comfortable on my wrist. I think the Vertical would be fine for 95% of my moves. I'd only want to bring along the A3 Peak in activities that last longer than 5 hours. Anything under 5 hours or as a daily driver, the Vertical to me is the perfect Suunto.

If they made this same watch with the battery life of the Peak, it would be exactly what I am looking for. I probably should add that I was able to purchase it (Black with HR Bundle) for only $296 so that definitely helps my feelings about the watch. At $519 I probably wouldn't be as happy with it (only the price, not the actual watch).


----------



## Teriemer

paul1928 said:


> ... I suspect Suunto are using the Vertical to beta-test, tweak and optimise the new bezel-mounted GPS chipset so they've got it as good as it'll get for the first Ambit 4 release. I can't see them going back to the old bump in future releases. Perhaps enabling GLONASS will make a difference (while likely impacting battery life further though) - although feedback from the Fenix 3 users suggests it doesn't make a huge difference for them.


Yup I very much see it the same way. Doing some minor tweaks to get A3V to work as good as A3P/S will not harm in the same way, as if it where a brand new A4. This is one (clever) way to get some (free) field test input.


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## paul1928

Teriemer said:


> Yup I very much see it the same way. Doing some minor tweaks to get A3V to work as good as A3P/S will not harm in the same way, as if it where a brand new A4. This is one (clever) way to get some (free) field test input.


...and some extra cash flow due to a new model.


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## Pirk

Finally a real review of the vertical. 




Not a good review, and in the end he is almost begging for a Fenix 3 to try out.

The Ginger Runners review of the original Ambit3 was what convinced me go get the watch. Especially the accuracy and movescount issues will probably stop people from buying the Vertical.


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## paul1928

Nice to see someone do a proper review.

It was embarrassing how many sports/running/trail magazines/blogs etc simply copy n pasted the Suunto press release, making it obvious they didn't _actually _have their hands on one but desperately wanted to jump on board the "Hey, here's something new and shiny!" band wagon ASAP.


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## jimmysalvo

Hello guys, I have previously owned a A3S which I quite like it. I had some problem with the strap which used to broken very often until I lost it during a MTB ride.

I know have to buy a new one and my budget is a little bit higher so I am pointing to the A3V or A3P. The big plus towards the Vertical is that I can put any strap I want. Did you had any problem with the Peak strap? Which one do you suggest?

Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> Hello guys, I have previously owned a A3S which I quite like it. I had some problem with the strap which used to broken very often until I lost it during a MTB ride.
> 
> I know have to buy a new one and my budget is a little bit higher so I am pointing to the A3V or A3P. The big plus towards the Vertical is that I can put any strap I want. Did you had any problem with the Peak strap? Which one do you suggest?
> 
> Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


Sport comes with silicone strap that IMHO is more comfortable than peak's. I haven't got my peak enough time for a strap replacement but I more like silicone one coming with A3S. I hear peak's strap isn't so durable than silicone ones.

Vertical is lighter and my thoughts is the most comfortable to wear of all A3 series.

deporteporvida.com


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## jimmysalvo

Yes, I like the Vertical a lot. It is also the best looking IMHO and I don't really need a long battery life. The only thing that is stopping me to buy it is the GPS accuracy. Right now seems lower than the Peak/Sport but I don't know how much.
Hope is going to be fixed in the firmware update

Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> Yes, I like the Vertical a lot. It is also the best looking IMHO and I don't really need a long battery life. The only thing that is stopping me to buy it is the GPS accuracy. Right now seems lower than the Peak/Sport but I don't know how much.
> Hope is going to be fixed in the firmware update
> 
> Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


Well, gps isn't so perfect as A3P/S/R but it's a little bit better than Fenix 3. Using it as GPS during MTB activities is very good. Inaccuracies coming when doing a trail running in challenging areas and if you haven't got a A3 before you didn't note that ;-)

deporteporvida.com


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## jimmysalvo

Thanks rdm01! I may buy it in a near future. In Italy with the cardio it's at about 400€

Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> Thanks rdm01! I may buy it in a near future. In Italy with the cardio it's at about 400€
> 
> Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


Check also bike-discount.com They usually got the best prices in Suunto's!

deporteporvida.com


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## jimmysalvo

Mate, you are right. That's nearly 50€ lower. Thanks a lot, you deserve a bier. Where are you from?

Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> Mate, you are right. That's nearly 50€ lower. Thanks a lot, you deserve a bier. Where are you from?
> 
> Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


From Spain but living in Bratislava ;-) Happy you do a better deal with them. I also bought there some cycling stuff with very good prices.

deporteporvida.com


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## jimmysalvo

A bit too far...

Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## cerzet

About app compatibility, from Suunto's Q&A, about a month ago:
"The Vertical's firmware is not yet fully updated with all App compatibilities. This will be resolved in a coming update to the device via Moveslink2."

Still waiting for Glonass and hopefully some improvement in GPS accuracy. They released it for Traverse in December, dissapointed in how long this takes.


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## newtonfb

cerzet said:


> About app compatibility, from Suunto's Q&A, about a month ago:
> "The Vertical's firmware is not yet fully updated with all App compatibilities. This will be resolved in a coming update to the device via Moveslink2."
> 
> Still waiting for Glonass and hopefully some improvement in GPS accuracy. They released it for Traverse in December, dissapointed in how long this takes.


First experience with suunto? I'm sorry but this company is in shambles when it comes to software. The mobile apps are awful and the watch software feels outdated. I love my A3 peak but I can be honest. Not to mention how many watched have been released in since the ambit 3 that are basically all the same, just running different firmware with features enabled and disabled.


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## cerzet

newtonfb said:


> First experience with suunto? I'm sorry but this company is in shambles when it comes to software. The mobile apps are awful and the watch software feels outdated. I love my A3 peak but I can be honest.


1st Suunto yes, but unfortunately, as a Garmin and Polar user also, the above could be said for those as well, IMHO. Well, what can you do...

Thinking about Wahoo Elemnt for a bike computer, but I hear the software is still very much a work in progress ;-)


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## CorrerUnaMaraton

cerzet said:


> About app compatibility, from Suunto's Q&A, about a month ago:
> "The Vertical's firmware is not yet fully updated with all App compatibilities. This will be resolved in a coming update to the device via Moveslink2."
> 
> Still waiting for Glonass and hopefully some improvement in GPS accuracy. They released it for Traverse in December, dissapointed in how long this takes.


The update with GLONASS support was announced today, but it's not available yet (at least with the latest Moveslink)

Here's the full changelog:


Sync improvements: POD calibration, after exercise syncing
Improved notifications behaviour
Allow mobile notifications without Movescount App active
Added GPS setting to allow GLONASS mode
Added alert when going OFF ROUTE in navigation altitude screen
Improved vibration and added for certain events
Clock alarm duration extended
User interface translation issues fixed
Logbook jamming problem fixed in very long Moves
Memory full warning fixed during exercise
Fixed GPS problem when calibrating compass during Move
Fixes to running performance behavior
Fixes to altitude graph during navigation
Fixed problem with running cadence during navigation
Track back does not ask direction


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## rdm01

I updated my Ambit3 Vertical, enabled GLONASS and went for my trail running test route. I wore a Garmin Fenix 3 and the Suunto Ambit3 Vertical. Real route distance is 10 km (statistically to hundreds of times I ran it with my Ambit3 Sport and Peak and checked using openstreetmaps)

The A3V track and distance are horrible :-( Probably it's time to say good bye to my Vertical

Movescount: 9,33 km
Garmin Connect: 9,96 km
MyGPSFiles comparison


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## cerzet

Good out in the open, but terrible in the hills/woods, I see. I'll update/test mine later in the week.


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## jimmysalvo

Nooo... Just bought mine. :-(

Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## jimmysalvo

Is the GPS accuracy worse after the update? Do you think it's better to stick with the old firmware?

Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> Is the GPS accuracy worse after the update? Do you think it's better to stick with the old firmware?
> 
> Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


My thoughts are GPS+GLONASS give you worse track and distance accuracy according to my old moves. I have to check again the same route in GPS mode to see the differences.

deporteporvida.com


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## jimmysalvo

Yes, thanks. I'll check once I will get the watch as well. I won't update the firmware to test if it is the reason of the bad accuracy

Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Teriemer

rdm01 said:


> My thoughts are GPS+GLONASS give you worse track and distance accuracy according to my old moves. I have to check again the same route in GPS mode to see the differences.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Some did (or maybe still do, I'm not up to date) report the same with F3 when Glonass is ON. Personally when I had the F3 (and 920XT), I never used Glonass since it didn't add anything to where I live. I think Glonass is much overrated in terms of what we have seen so far. I don't recall anyone saying "waauw - what an accuracy with Glonass". In fact the opposite is more the case. And this also has to be compared to how A3P/S/R works with classic GPS.


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## gijom

Installed new firmware and went for a swim... Where did the drill screen go?!?


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## rdm01

gijom said:


> Installed new firmware and went for a swim... Where did the drill screen go?!?


Where did you read they add drill screen?

deporteporvida.com


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## jimmysalvo

Hello guys,

just received the watch, it looks great but GPS precision seems not very good. Please, see the track below.

MyGPSFiles

I just hope some firmware update will fix it, if I have to return it I don't know what to get :-(

BTW, I am still using firmware 1.0.0


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## gijom

rdm01 said:


> Where did you read they add drill screen?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Hi, the drill screen needs to be activated in the watch by going to options while in swim mode.
It had to be redone after the update.
No big deal.
I went for a run with GPS and GLONASS activated.
Will try to compare the GPX traces like you did and post it here.


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## gijom

Tried to run on same route as the one I ran on prior to the firmware upgrade. This time after activating GPS + GLONASS (Default is only GPS...).
I reached the conclusion this improves the result quite visibly and corrects the most inaccurate sections of the run.
Take a look for yourself and let me know what you think:
MyGPSFiles


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## jimmysalvo

Had a look today at some run made with the A3S and they are not much better than the A3V, yes definitely better but not very much. I have also asked the same question to the Suunto customer service, they told me that there is not reason why the hardware should perform worse the the peak/sport. 
I am starting to think that is just the software that it needs to be improved.

What do you think?

Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> Had a look today at some run made with the A3S and they are not much better than the A3V, yes definitely better but not very much. I have also asked the same question to the Suunto customer service, they told me that there is not reason why the hardware should perform worse the the peak/sport.
> I am starting to think that is just the software that it needs to be improved.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


 In challenging zones you can see bigger differences.

deporteporvida.com


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## pjc3

jimmysalvo said:


> I have also asked the same question to the Suunto customer service, they told me that there is not reason why the hardware should perform worse the the peak/sport.
> What do you think?
> 
> Inviato dal mio XT1052 utilizzando Tapatalk


Any surprise Suunto said it should not be worse than the previous model? I agree with rdm01; there is a difference once you hit dense tree cover amongst other things (Traverse vs A3).


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## XCJagge

I got pretty good improvement and results with glonass when I combined it with attempt to shoot straight up with the antenna. The same trick that had major impact with track pod. I placed piece of rolled fabric under the strap to make it stay like in the picture, so screen shoots straight up most of the time when running (there is peak in picture, just to illustrate the way I carried vertical, I did not have vertical at hand when I took the picture). Blue is Vertical strapped like this, red is Peak in right hand and yellow is Vertical carried normal way with the old firmware (GPS only) recorded week earlier. As you can see yellow is off quite a lot especially at turning points, so forest is challenging enough for the old firmware, but now blue is at par with red or slightly better. I'll do more tests, but I'd say it is not that certain vertical is all that bad really.


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## user_none

gijom said:


> Tried to run on same route as the one I ran on prior to the firmware upgrade. This time after activating GPS + GLONASS (Default is only GPS...).
> I reached the conclusion this improves the result quite visibly and corrects the most inaccurate sections of the run.
> Take a look for yourself and let me know what you think:
> MyGPSFiles


Hey, you live close to me!


----------



## HIKESOLO

And he lives right near my employer!


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## jimmysalvo

hello guys,

I went for a bike ride this morning. I was the first time with the A3V but I did part of it many times with the A3S. I must say that the A3V performed very nicely even in the middle of the forest under dense trees.

Look at the GPS trackes below.

MyGPSFiles

I am very happy, maybe I confident I dont have to return it.

Yellow is A3V (there is a bit of the track that is "zig-zag", it was me tired...)


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## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> hello guys,
> 
> I went for a bike ride this morning. I was the first time with the A3V but I did part of it many times with the A3S. I must say that the A3V performed very nicely even in the middle of the forest under dense trees.
> 
> Look at the GPS trackes below.
> 
> MyGPSFiles
> 
> I am very happy, maybe I confident I dont have to return it.
> 
> Yellow is A3V (there is a bit of the track that is "zig-zag", it was me tired...)


Great! I noted in the last week an improvement in my trail running tracks after disabling autolap. Looks like autolap produces a low power when notifying and it does GPS signal goes a down for a while... Only my thoughts...

deporteporvida.com


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## cerzet

Updated fw and enabled Glonass, not much of a difference. Top 2 pics are from the same session, with Polar and Suunto on the same arm. The 3rd pic is Suunto only a few days later, but going in the same direction and with approx. the same speed. No autolap.

Also did a session on a well defined and officially measured 1575m loop with many sharp turns, some tree cover, watches on same hand. Exported both sessions to tcx-files from Movescount/Flow to get the exact lap distances:
Polar V800: 1594.7m
Ambit3 Vertical: 1590m
Did the same loop with the Vertical later: 1603m
These are within the same 1-2% variation as any other GPS watch I've used. Just checked a few runs with the Vivoactive from last year: 1600, 1610, 1610, 1600m, a Forerunner 610 from 2012: 1590, 1590, 1600, 1600, 1610, 1620, 1610, 1610m. Garmins tend to measure slightly higher on this particular loop.











cerzet said:


> I earlier suggested Vertical missed a turn on a trail. Had not been there in a while with a Garmin or Polar, but looking at older sessions it looks more like an OSM map error. The Vertical GPS track is not bad at all. These are from different sessions, going in different directions and speed, but I might redo this with all 3, once Glonass is enabled.
> 
> View attachment 7177434


----------



## JonnoBird

The problem I reported in this post, https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/meet-suunto-ambit3-vertical-2750474-24.html#post26144154 , unfortunately was not fixed in the latest firmware update. Tested yesterday and it didn't work. Workaround is to pair the 2nd bike's sensor as Bike 1, then it works fine. It's a minor annoyance, but there's no point in having Bike 1-2-3 profiles if the sensors only work properly when paired as Bike 1.


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## gingerjedi

I've had a battery problem with my Vertical which has manifested itself on two separate occasions, on two different Vertical watches. The watches are both running the latest firmware and have been used regularly. Halfway through the day, battery at approx 45%, the watch starts to get quite warm and the battery starts rapidly depleting until empty. The watch is locked and not tracking any GPS activities Just wondering if anyone else had similar experience? I was so unsure about its reliability I didn't use it for running an ultra the other weekend and resorted back to my 920xt, not great :-(


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## rdm01

gingerjedi said:


> I've had a battery problem with my Vertical which has manifested itself on two separate occasions, on two different Vertical watches. The watches are both running the latest firmware and have been used regularly. Halfway through the day, battery at approx 45%, the watch starts to get quite warm and the battery starts rapidly depleting until empty. The watch is locked and not tracking any GPS activities Just wondering if anyone else had similar experience? I was so unsure about its reliability I didn't use it for running an ultra the other weekend and resorted back to my 920xt, not great :-(


I didn't experiment something like this

deporteporvida.com


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## paul1928

Tip for the GLONASS-enabled Vertical users who only ever sync via the Movescount app: you will likely get a faster fix time if you sync via the Moveslink2 app on a PC or Mac within 24 hours of your planned move. Last time I checked, the Movescount app only updates the GPS sgee file on the watch and not the GLONASS sgee. It appears at this stage that only Moveslink2 also updates the GLONASS sgee.


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## raducanmihai

Updating satelites via Moveslink tells the watch what to look for when trying to get a fix. After it got the minimum number of satelites (probably 4) you are good to go. Syncing in advance only reduces the time to find those minimum number of satelites. Accuracy has nothing to do with it (maybe just for the first few hundred meters until it finds more satelites, but that's it). Please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## AirVetra

Hello every one,

Pls. could some one did a real test of a new firmware to get the clearance with GPS+Glonass accuracy!
and some new sperares about correction are there&#8230;

for Trail Running in the forest and mountains is it sufficiently accurate already?
I've only two weeks before weekend to do a choice Vertical or Smth else&#8230;
Thanks!


----------



## rdm01

AirVetra said:


> Hello every one,
> 
> Pls. could some one did a real test of a new firmware to get the clearance with GPS+Glonass accuracy!
> and some new sperares about correction are there&#8230;
> 
> for Trail Running in the forest and mountains is it sufficiently accurate already?
> I've only two weeks before weekend to do a choice Vertical or Smth else&#8230;
> Thanks!


If you were ambit3 user I think Vertical accuracy will not good for you. If not Vertical is not so bad to be unusable device for trail running. Actually I got ambit3 sport and vertical and most of time I wear the Vertical during my runs.

deporteporvida.com


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## AirVetra

rdm01 said:


> If you were ambit3 user I think Vertical accuracy will not good for you. If not Vertical is not so bad to be unusable device for trail running. Actually I got ambit3 sport and vertical and most of time I wear the Vertical during my runs.


Thanks! And what about elevation data reliability? Now I use garmin 235 and for cycling - garmin edge 800 - and by no doubt garmin w/o barometric altimiter is not a device for trails and mountains...


----------



## rdm01

AirVetra said:


> Thanks! And what about elevation data reliability? Now I use garmin 235 and for cycling - garmin edge 800 - and by no doubt garmin w/o barometric altimiter is not a device for trails and mountains...


Looks to me as accurate as Peak was. But I really don't care too much about the elevation gain.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## jhonzatko

Does anybody have a track comparison with Fenix 3?
I'm ex-Ambit 3 Peak Sapphire user, now on Fenix 3. It's a great everyday tool, but not very strong in gps performance. Does it make sense to change the F3 for A3V regarding the gps performance? Is A3V better than F3 or are both on paar?


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## rdm01

jhonzatko said:


> Does anybody have a track comparison with Fenix 3?
> I'm ex-Ambit 3 Peak Sapphire user, now on Fenix 3. It's a great everyday tool, but not very strong in gps performance. Does it make sense to change the F3 for A3V regarding the gps performance? Is A3V better than F3 are both on paar?


I the tests I did the Vertical is a little bit better than F3 tracks and fairly better in distance measurement in challenging areas. Also in good GPS signal areas the Vertical distances are better when repeating the same route lots of times.

deporteporvida.com


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## jhonzatko

Thank you for this info, it sounds promising!


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## rdm01

jhonzatko said:


> Thank you for this info, it sounds promising!


Vertical is really a really nice watch. If you got a Peak/Sport/Run before probably you will see the tracks are worse in your Vertical than something else ambit3.

If you hadn't got an Ambit3 on before Vertical is simply great choice.

deporteporvida.com


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## jhonzatko

One more question, please. Which one of them has a strong/better vibrations?
Because vibration alarm is (at least for me) very important thing (Ambit3 Peak with vibration alarm is my dream watch  ).


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## rdm01

jhonzatko said:


> One more question, please. Which one of them has a strong/better vibrations?
> Because vibration alarm is (at least for me) very important thing (Ambit3 Peak with vibration alarm is my dream watch  ).


Fenix 3 got. Vertical vibration alerts are really soft.

deporteporvida.com


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## jimmysalvo

I agree. Vertical is very nice, I have switched from an A3S and, for my use, I haven't noticed much difference in terms of GPS accuracy. On the other hand, the vertical is lighter, much comfortable and, to me, better looking. 

Inviato dal mio E5823 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## mflbob

Hi

Newbie here to this forum and to the world of GPS watches/HRMs. I appreciate the collective expertise here about Suunto and Garmins and would like to ask a few questions that would help me to decide on the watch to buy. I've read reviews at DC Rainmaker's site and the various comments, discussions there and here about the watches that I'm considering, which are the Garmin Vivoactive HR, Suunto Ambit3 Sport, Peak and Vertical. I know...all different and that's where my dilemma lies.

I would use the watch predominantly for multiple sports...running (70%), cycling (20%), swimming (5%) and other occasional sports (5%) such as snowboarding, surfing, hiking etc. I am ramping up my swimming with the intention of trying triathlons in the not too distant future. 

I'm familiar with the features and differences of each of the watches above. I think I've eliminated the Vivoactive based on it's lack of multisport capabilities. I like the Vertical and it feels more comfortable than the Sport or the Peak. However, the GPS accuracy issue is stopping me from buying one immediately. The pros of the watch for me are: vibration alert, lighter and no GPS antenna nub. The barometric altimeter is nice to have but not essential. I can get the Vertical for $449, the Sport for $349 and the Peak for $499 here in Australia. 

My current HRM is not GPS enabled and is an old Polar s725X. It's been a great watch and HRM but I want to move into the 21st century. I've been using Sportstracker to mapy my runs with my Android phone GPS. 

One of the important questions which I'm trying to answer is: how bad is the GPS issue with the Vertical, really? I know that people compare the GPS to other more 'accurate' watches...but looking at some of the mapped results, the routes sometimes look like the routes that I have in Sporstracker...which is surprising considering the outlay required for the watches. I've been used to living with first the Polar footpod then the GPS unit (but no mapping capability, just distance) and finally, a phone based GPS app. Is the chipset of the watches much better than the chipset of the phones, and is the GPS inaccuracy so bad in the Vertical that it is unusable? It worries me that an expensive (well, when compared to my budget of around $400) watch can still be inaccurate. 

My requirements for distance aren't so specific that it must be exact to the metre or two. As long as the distance and speed/pace calculated are close to reality....so if I run a marathon, I'd be happy if the watch records 21.1 to 22.1 and the route plotted does not have me running into forests or swimming in rivers or lakes....let's face it, running around people in a half-marathon would usually result in a greater total distance anyway.

Oh...most of my running and cycling would be on city/suburban streets, although some of running routes are along some suburban trails under trees. I'd like to get into trail running soon too.

Sorry for the long winded post. The geek in me would love the Peak and am wondering if the extra $50 is worth it at the expense of losing the vibrating alert...or will the Sport be a better option and spend the $100 that I would save on a Wahoo Fitness Blue SC for my indoor trainer (again sacrificing the vibrating alert of the Vertical)? Lastly, I wonder if these units will drop in price further when the Spartan becomes available in a couple of months...and also see a reduction in the enhancements to the Ambit3 watches from Suunto?

Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.


----------



## JonnoBird

A little feedback, FWIW. I also mostly bike, road and trail run, and mostly openwater ocean swim, with a bit of other sports. I only wear the A3V during sports workouts - it's too bulky for me for daily wear. As a consequence, I have gone from thinking alerts were important to not really caring. The vibe/tone for my setup is used for biking laps (every 5 miles) and running (every mile). I use an HR strap for running and cycling, I don't bother for swimming. Tried it once for ocean swim - didn't think the results were accurate (especially PTE), and there were dropouts in the data. GPS accuracy seems just fine to me, but I'm not in narrow canyons or under thick tree canopies or trying to navigate off the watch. I do have two Wahoo Blue SCs, one for trainer/road bike, one for tri bike. Although the A3V can support 3 bike pods, each must be paired before a ride as Bike 1 in order to get both cadence and speed. That's a Suunto bug - not Wahoo. I don't have an opinion as to which watch, future pricing, etc, but I hope this helps.


----------



## mflbob

JonnoBird said:


> A little feedback, FWIW. I also mostly bike, road and trail run, and mostly openwater ocean swim, with a bit of other sports. I only wear the A3V during sports workouts - it's too bulky for me for daily wear. As a consequence, I have gone from thinking alerts were important to not really caring. The vibe/tone for my setup is used for biking laps (every 5 miles) and running (every mile). I use an HR strap for running and cycling, I don't bother for swimming. Tried it once for ocean swim - didn't think the results were accurate (especially PTE), and there were dropouts in the data. GPS accuracy seems just fine to me, but I'm not in narrow canyons or under thick tree canopies or trying to navigate off the watch. I do have two Wahoo Blue SCs, one for trainer/road bike, one for tri bike. Although the A3V can support 3 bike pods, each must be paired before a ride as Bike 1 in order to get both cadence and speed. That's a Suunto bug - not Wahoo. I don't have an opinion as to which watch, future pricing, etc, but I hope this helps.


Thanks JonnoBird. I appreciate the real-world feedback, particularly the GPS accuracy and Wahoo Blue SCs. It's interesting what you mentioned about the vibration alert. I haven't used vibration alerts before and have gotten used to audio prompts from Sportstracker when I hit each kilometre. It's a nice to have and my rationale for it is that if I'm listening to music while running, the vibration alert would be the replacement for the Sportstracker audio prompt. By the way, I looked at some of my recent runs on Sportstracker and in most cases, the GPS accuracy seems similar to the other GPS watches that I've seen....which i find interesting. It may be cheaper to stick with my trusty Polar and just get a Scosche Rhythm and Wahoo Blue SCs to pair with my Android phone!


----------



## mflbob

I bought the A3V and took it for its maiden run today. Also used Sportstracker on my phone to compare the tracks. A3V measured 10.64km and Sporstracker 10.63. Tracks were similar on the map although Sportstracker had me swimming in a lake rather than crossing a bridge. A3V had me running in the middle of roads on a couple of occasions. I ran around a lake with light tree cover along the path. Heavy in some areas and this is when I noticed that A3V had increased my pace by some 30 seconds to what I was running previously. The kilometre alerts were still the same with Sporstracker. I couldn't feel the vibration alert at all. 

Expensive exercise...the results don't seem to be any more accurate than an Android phone with a GPS app. I'm going on a work trip over the next week and will continue to test it. I had upgraded to the latest firmware, but didn't enable GLONASS. 

I do like the Movecount data, the heatmaps and also the Movecount data displayed on the app. Simple enough to pair and synchronise...after a couple of attempts.

Will give an update when I'm back in a week's time.


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## cerzet

There's an update out (1.0.31). Nothing major, mainly bug fixes.
Suunto Ambit3 Vertical release notes


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## loganb

One change that doesn't appear to be in the release notes is that it seems to show normal activity in the recovery plot now. As far as I can remember before it only showed recovery times in the graph corresponding to explicitly recorded activities (e.g. runs, swims.) However, now if I run for the ferry without touching my watch I'll see a little one hour spike in the recovery chart.

- logan



cerzet said:


> There's an update out (1.0.31). Nothing major, mainly bug fixes.


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## PiousInquisitor

loganb said:


> One change that doesn't appear to be in the release notes is that it seems to show normal activity in the recovery plot now. As far as I can remember before it only showed recovery times in the graph corresponding to explicitly recorded activities (e.g. runs, swims.) However, now if I run for the ferry without touching my watch I'll see a little one hour spike in the recovery chart.
> 
> - logan


My Ambit 3 Peak does this.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## jasoncd

I picked up a Vertical and a Peak with the idea of testing them and keeping one. It's a week later now, and I can't reach a decision! Maybe breaking down my thoughts here would help, and would love anyone else's comments.

My current use is road running and will do some runs in parks on the weekend. Longest runs are about two hours, but I'm working that up.


Wow the Peak is much larger than the Vertical. I think it's mostly the height, although the nub extension does make the watch appear larger. But I have slender wrists. No issue wearing the watch running, but wearing it at work it does look big against a dress shirt :-d
The Vertical disappears on the wrist more, and I can fit it under a sleeve.
Barometer on the Peak is cool, but not essential. Altitude features on the Vertical are cool, but not essential (I live in a very flat area). I do like bar graphs and data over time though, so the Vertical is cool there. Maybe it will make me seek out what counts as "hills" here.
Battery life is killer on the Peak, wearing both watches simultaneous to run after charging 5 days ago the Peak is at 77% and the Vertical is at 56%.
The Peak displays the day in time mode as an option at the bottom, the Vertical displays the day as part of the date at the top. Simple but much smarter implementation on the Vertical
The Vertical doesn't display the temp outside of part of an Activity???? Ditto with sunrise/sunset.
Font seems thicker on the Vertical, and maybe some other slight screen differences, not a huge deal either way
Button action feels slightly different, hard to describe though

In the suburbs, the tracks I've recorded have had distance within 0.5% of each other. They trade off sections where which has the more accurate looking line. The Peak looks smoother in general, but it records 1 data point per second while the Vertical records 2 data points per second. I did a few laps at a park with a lot of tree cover, and the difference was around 2.8% but it wasn't possible to tell which had the more accurate number.

Realistically, I'm not running Ultras anytime soon. Or crazy mountains, or super forested routes. The specific features of the Vertical are lost on me, as are a lot of the benefits of the Peak. I was sick of my Garmin and I do like the Suunto ecosystem. Love the hardware too.

My brain I think is telling me the Vertical is the easier to live with choice that will do everything I need it to. But I can't help but be intrigued by the Peak for just being that much more hardcore. I guess the Spartan could be an option, although I find the Ambit line a better looking watch. Love the fat bezel with exposed screws.

If I could sync recovery time, performance and other values between the two I might be tempted to keep both. After writing this out, I don't think I'm any closer to a decision!


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## Philip Onayeti

Go the Vertical. It sounds like it is more comfortable size on your wrist and hence it will get more wrist time when not running and thus better value long term. My Traverse has become my daily wear and my poor old Elementum just looks pretty sitting in its box!!


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## jimmysalvo

Hello guys, 
Did anyone notice any gps accuracy improvement with the last update?


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## tfa

DCR review of Ambit3V versus Fenix3 in terms of GPS accuracy, no wonder the Ambit3 track is wonky if GPS fix is 3 seconds versus his beloved Fenix3 with 1sec fix rate ... no further comment about creditability of DCR for non-garmin products ...

The New Suunto Ambit3 Vertical: An Explainer | DC Rainmaker
data examined from this gpx files


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## dcrainmaker

Interesting. But you skip over the fact that all of the issues I had with the unit wouldn't have mattered from a 3-second recording rate (though, that's odd, since I always have it set for 'Best'). But rather, these issues were massive cuts of the forest/course cut. That's easily shown in the post.


Also, you skipped over the fact that everyone else has found pretty similar results with these units.


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## JonnoBird

The 1.0.31 update did fix the issue I was having with multiple Wahoo Fitness Blue SC bike speed/cadence sensors always having to be paired as "Bike 1" to report both speed and cadence. Now my Tri bike is set to Bike 1, and road bike set to Bike 2, and switching between them works fine. Thank you Suunto.


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## raducanmihai

@tfa: I don't see how Ambit's 2-3 sec recording rate is DCRainmaker's problem. I looked at my files recorded with Ambit 3 Peak, GPS accuracy set on "Best", recording interval 1 sec. It's the same as DCRainamkers's: 2 or 3 seconds. In my experience, recording rate for GPS is variable, up to 3 sec, depending on your speed. Above a certain speed, GPS recording(fixing) rate is 1 sec. Below that speed, GPS recording (fixing) rate is 2 or 3 sec.


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## jimmysalvo

I had a look at a couple of gpx files. Yes, the recording interval is not constant, it does change from 1 to 5 seconds. The bad thing is that in the Vertical it is never recorder at 1 second interval, even if set to "best".
Different behavior with the A3 sport, most of the track is at 1 second.

I have to say that gps precision is Ok but quite worse then the A3 sport in some case. I am very disappointed as I sold the Ambit3 Sport to buy a Vertical and I ended up with a downgrade instead of an upgrade.


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## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> I had a look at a couple of gpx files. Yes, the recording interval is not constant, it does change from 1 to 5 seconds. The bad thing is that in the Vertical it is never recorder at 1 second interval, even if set to "best".
> Different behavior with the A3 sport, most of the track is at 1 second.
> 
> I have to say that gps precision is Ok but quite worse then the A3 sport in some case. I am very disappointed as I sold the Ambit3 Sport to buy a Vertical and I ended up with a downgrade instead of an upgrade.


I think recording interval makes the difference in GPS accuracy between Vertical and Spartan. Both of them without the Ambits antenna bulb but Spartan having better GPS accuracy.

deporteporvida.com


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## jimmysalvo

rdm01 said:


> I think recording interval makes the difference in GPS accuracy between Vertical and Spartan. Both of them without the Ambits antenna bulb but Spartan having better GPS accuracy.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Easy to check if you have a Spartan...


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## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> Easy to check if you have a Spartan...


Actually I've got one ;-)

deporteporvida.com


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## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> Easy to check if you have a Spartan...


Spartan also records data points with variable range. I've seen that in taking a quick look into one move (road run)

Here some part using 3 sec interval recording









And here other part using 1 sec interval recording









Both of the screenshots coming from the same activity.


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## jimmysalvo

rdm01 said:


> Spartan also records data points with variable range. I've seen that in taking a quick look into one move (road run)
> 
> Here some part using 3 sec interval recording
> 
> View attachment 9258482
> 
> 
> And here other part using 1 sec interval recording
> 
> View attachment 9258490
> 
> 
> Both of the screenshots coming from the same activity.


This quite sad as the device is sold to record every second when set at best. I have sent a formal complain to the suunto support. They MUST fix it as we paid for that but I trust suunto...

If some of you will submit the same complain they may speed up software development, even if busy to fix the spartan


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## jimmysalvo

If you go to the service menu, on the info submenu which hardware version do you have?


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## krazyeone

I don;t have an Vertical but I have Peek

I was looking at elevation data, comparing to 920xt it seems some strange data , it looks that 920xt records more often data points ?

MyGPSFiles


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## triple6

I miss my suunto now! lol


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## cerzet

paul1928 said:


> Last time I checked, the Movescount app only updates the GPS sgee file on the watch and not the GLONASS sgee. It appears at this stage that only Moveslink2 also updates the GLONASS sgee.


How exactly do you check this?


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## krazyeone

cerzet said:


> How exactly do you check this?


Hold Lap/Start buttons 
An menu with start service should appear
Keep pressing buttons 
Go to INFO, Version , Next for 6 time, then you should see SGEE Gps data 
It should be from today or last day


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## cerzet

Thank you, easy enough. So, in my case w/ Vertical 1.0.31, newest Movescount iOS app and Moveslink2 on windows 10:

1. Vertical starting point, not synced in a couple of weeks:
GPS sgee 20.11.2016 UTC 08:05:01
GLO sgee 20.11.2016 UTC 08:05:01
2. After syncing w/ Movescount on iOS
GPS sgee 6.12.2016 UTC 08:05:01
GLO sgee N/A
3. After syncing w/ Moveslink2 on windows 10
GPS sgee 6.12.2016 UTC 08:05:01
GLO sgee 6.12.2016 UTC 08:05:01

Redoing #2 shortly after didn't change anything, fortunately, so phone syncing the same day will not remove the GLO sgee.


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## krazyeone

cerzet said:


> Thank you, easy enough. So, in my case w/ Vertical 1.0.31, newest Movescount iOS app and Moveslink2 on windows 10:
> 
> Redoing #2 shortly after didn't change anything, fortunately, so phone syncing the same day will not remove the GLO sgee.


What do you want to change if the info is already latest?

SiRFInstantFix provides exceptional start-up times with or without connectivity
Satellites does not change position every minutes


With connectivity (SGEE)

Speedy start-ups are made possible via an internet connection that eliminates the need to download a satellite ephemeris, allowing a SiRF® receiver to be instantly navigating in almost any environment
The key to this solution is a sophisticated set of proprietary algorithms that calculate an Extended Ephemeris (EE) file, yielding an accurate fix long after a traditional broadcast ephemeris has timed out-about four hours-and provide navigable positions for up to 31 days


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## cerzet

krazyeone said:


> What do you want to change if the info is already latest?


I just tested if the iOS sync would keep the Glonass sgee when it was already up to date, which it did. Worked as expected, no problems there. But the iOS sync doesn't update the Glonass sgee if it's old, it deletes it. Which is a bug that I wanted to test with the newest versions of all software.


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## orks

Can someone show (post) the image of a new popup screen informing that navigation is off route ( software update 1.0.31,July 2016) and tell me does it only show the route with acutal declination or it shows something more?


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## guglez

So which watch should i buy if I'm going to do a lot of mountain biking? Peak or vertical? I need to track the elevation gain and I also wan't to see how much ascent left on my route. I will not use them for running.How ambit watches are working with heart rate zones? Thx for help.


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## martowl

guglez said:


> So which watch should i buy if I'm going to do a lot of mountain biking? Peak or vertical? I need to track the elevation gain and I also wan't to see how much ascent left on my route. I will not use them for running.How ambit watches are working with heart rate zones? Thx for help.


The most recent update for the Peak gave it all the software functionality of the Vertical. So the Vertical has vibration alert, 1/2 the battery life and no GPS antenna nub. Those are the only differences the Vertical possess that the Peak lacks. The Peak is cheaper than the Vertical as well. The Vertical is smaller so it really depends on your needs.

The Vertical does not have weather trends, storm alarm built in and will not perform waypoint navigation with a drawn route, only with the altitude profiling.

It depends on your needs.


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## krazyeone

orks said:


> Can someone show (post) the image of a new popup screen informing that navigation is off route ( software update 1.0.31,July 2016) and tell me does it only show the route with acutal declination or it shows something more?


Check Ambit 3 topic for latest fw...I post there some screens, I asume that is the same on Vertical

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## orks

error


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## orks

error


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## orks

krazyeone said:


> Check Ambit 3 topic for latest fw...I post there some screens, I asume that is the same on Vertical
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Tnx a lot.I've already checked it but that's not the screen (I assume) described in Suunto's info about latest sw update for Ambit Vertical (1.0.31,July 2016) because this is the second one popup screen (new) and your screen is anounced in April 2016 in sw update 1.0.27 for Ambit Vertical and it shows only message off route in navigation altitude screen.So,there are two screens or maybe one modified with off route alert.


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## orks

error


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## krazyeone

orks said:


> Tnx a lot.I've already checked it but that's not the screen (I assume) described in Suunto's info about latest sw update for Ambit Vertical (1.0.31,July 2016) because this is the second one popup screen (new) and your screen is anounced in April 2016 in sw update 1.0.27 for Ambit Vertical and it shows only message off route in navigation altitude screen.So,there are two screens or maybe one modified with off route alert.


I remember that is another popup just saying 'Off course" but I did not manage to take picture as it was in the same with 1 km autolap 
But nothing fancy

For example on Garmin You have option to configure (as many other option) to prompt once or to repeat after a while offcourse message


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## orks

krazyeone said:


> I remember that is another popup just saying 'Off course" but I did not manage to take picture as it was in the same with 1 km autolap
> But nothing fancy
> 
> For example on Garmin You have option to configure (as many other option) to prompt once or to repeat after a while offcourse message


That's the answer I've been looking for.I thought there were some more info on that new popupscreen (similar Garmin you've mentioned above) but it looks like there is just another fancy screen without more capabilities.Tnx anyway.


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## cerzet

Vertical gets step count also. Not that I need it, but anyway. Would rather have a list of the other small fixes:
Suunto Ambit3 Vertical Software Update December 2016

The 1.1.22 software update for Suunto Ambit3 Vertical includes:


Daily step count
Possibility to clear recovery test calibration values in service menu
Possibility to clear ascent history (all or today) in service menu
Fixes to wrist cadence when running with fast pace
Improved GPS performance at altitudes below sea level
Several other smaller fixes and general performance improvement


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## krazyeone

And I would like option to disable steps, but they did not implement that


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## cerzet

Nice price on a Wiggle ed. of the Vertical, 282€ w/ HR belt and an orange wrist band.
Wiggle | Suunto Ambit 3 Vertical GPS Watch Wiggle Exclusive (HR) | GPS Running Computers


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## Mokiwi

Here is my experience so far with a couple of questions for those who have used it if you don't mind. 
Only had the watch for 3 days. The first two days I used it only as a watch. The first day was excellent, battery lasted well even with me tinkering with the settings a lot. The second day the battery suddenly dropped, not sure why (I did have 2 messages showing on the watch and couldn't clear them even though they were cleared from the phone-maybe that had something to do with it). I tried to charge using a USB wall charger, didn't work. Charged 1% in about 20 mins, it eventually got to 10% then I gave up trying the wall charging and unplugged it. The watch battery percentage then showed 0% and turn off. Tried using the USB cable and connected to the PC, pretty much same thing happened, would charge ridiculously slow then turn off when unplugged. I was thinking maybe I had turned something on in the backround of the watch and it was still running(if that's even possible) so I unpaired from my iphone and through the website I restored all data. That seemed to help the battery, charged as normal and so far the battery has behaved as it should. I am hoping it was my mistake causing the battery to drain rather than a faulty device. Today I went for my first street run with it. The GPS locked on in about a minute even though I was amongst tall apartments-very impressive. I started the Runtastic app on my phone at exactly the same time as the watch to compare. During the run both the app and watch were exactly the same-again incredibly impressive. However the statistics after completing my run were very different. The Runtastic app had a total running time of 34:26 for 7km. Average pace 4:55min/km. This seems to be accurate. I have used many apps and they all have me at about this pace. The A3V however logged me at 38:40 for the 7km with and average pacce of 5:31min/km. There is no way I am that slow, thats a pace of about 3 years ago. A four minute difference is huge. Looking at the maps on both Runtastic and the Movescount app and website they are all fairly accurate so there shouldn't be that greater discrepancy. I did turn off GPS time on the watch-maybe that would have helped but pretty sure it wouldn't account for 4 minutes! On the Movescount website it even has the weather temperature of my run at 18.2C but in actual fact it was 10C! The run used 8% battery so pretty happy with that and it's been about an hour since my run and the battery is still at the same percentage as when I finished my run so hopefully the battery will be OK-fingers crossed!
So just wondering if anyone else has had battery issues or incorrect data. I really love the watch, it's my first GPS watch but if the activity times are going to remain inaccurate it could lead to lots of frustration! Thanks to anyone who replies. Looking forward to hearing of your uses and thoughts.


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## margusl

Time & pace difference -- I have no idea how Runtastic presents time & duration values, if "total running time" means total time (from start to stop) or just moving time, but from figures it just seems that Runtastic does not count stopped & slow paced moments. Some other apps and sites behave like this or give you both values, e.g. "Moving Time" & "Elapsed Time" in Strava. Ambit & Movescount are displaying total duration, time between pressing Start and Stop, and avg pace is calculated from total duration and total distance. If you enable autopause for Ambit, it will pause for you if speed drops below 2km/h and resumes after you start going over 3km/h.

Temperature measurement -- this is kind of a by-product of barometric altimeter. You see small holes in Ambit back cover? Sensor sits behind those, meaning that the watch placement (on wrist under the sleeve, on top of sleeve, strapped to a pack, ...) plays huge role on temperature readings and there is no way to compensate it to get accurate temperature of surrounding. Ambit Peak user guide actually points that out, somehow it's missing from Vertical guide, probably because only way to see temperature on Vertical itself is through service menu. That same topic pops up from time to time, for example https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/ambit-temperature-readings-669220.html , so maybe some Movescount UI/UIX wizards should take a 2nd look at temp. presentation.

Garmin has external Tempe Ant+ sensor to overcome this on their watches & handhelds, it sure would be nice to have BTLE temperature sensor support on Ambits. Besides, IIRC Ambit temp scale went only down to -20C or -22C, making it bit limited thermometer even when taking few off wrist & non-continuous temperature readings during winter ventures.


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## Mokiwi

Margusl, I think I understand what you mean about the time / pace difference. I did have autopause turned on on my watch and the Runtastic app. Perhaps Movescount has added the paused waiting time at the traffic lights into the total time i.e like you said from start to stop. I guess the wait at the lights plus a short pause to adjust shoes could account for the 4 minute difference between Runtastic and the watch. However I would much rather know the just actual run time without pauses included. Perhaps on my next run I will turn off autopause and try to remember to manually pause the watch at lights and see if that makes a difference. Perhaps there is a setting/display in the watch that can show only the actual run time!


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## margusl

Mokiwi said:


> I did have autopause turned on on my watch and the Runtastic app.


Interesting, with autopause on, I would have assumed smaller difference. In Movescount under laps section you should see lap paces between (auto) pauses and also have an option to toggle pauses on and off. Do those pace figures in lap list make sense? 
Anyway it's quite common that people find Movescount to lack some features they are used to. While there is no direct sync to Runtastic, you have a possibilty to push your moves right into Strava or Training Peaks. Plus few other options if you choose to go with sync services like tapiriik.com and use Strava or TP as a middle man.


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## cerzet

Replaced the wrist strap, tried a Zulu and a Nato, like them better than the original. Easy to do on the Vertical and looks nice. Got mine here, plenty of alternatives, 24mm is the ones to get.
https://www.miros-time.de/nato-bänder/nato-24-mm/
https://www.miros-time.de/zulu-bänder/zulu-24-mm/
The spring bars (Twin Cam) and tool works fine with Vertical as well, in case you need them.
https://www.miros-time.de/zubehör/
Good quality straps, certainly a lot better than the one I got a few years back for another watch.


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## cyrusvn

is it easy to change the strap on a3v? does it require a lug adapter?


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## cerzet

cyrusvn said:


> is it easy to change the strap on a3v? does it require a lug adapter?


Easy, like a regular watch. No adapter needed.


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## cyrusvn

cerzet said:


> Easy, like a regular watch. No adapter needed.


awesome, just what i need since im a watch strap addict!


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## cerzet

I really find these more comfortable than the original silicone one. Been swimming with them as well, no problems, dries quickly as the material is waterproof.


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## cyrusvn

anyone know why i can't see the notification menu in my start stop button menu? already updated my a3v to the latest fw. I have tried resetting the watch 3 times. my phone pairs with it perfectly. i can receive the notifications from the phone with no problems.


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## cerzet

You're right, it's missing. Still in the manual though. Needs to be reported to Suunto as a bug then. 
I feel that this functionality actually would need a separate display, that you can enable/disable in settings and scroll to with next. Just like other displays.


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## cerzet

cerzet said:


> Thank you, easy enough. So, in my case w/ Vertical 1.0.31, newest Movescount iOS app and Moveslink2 on windows 10:
> 
> 1. Vertical starting point, not synced in a couple of weeks:
> GPS sgee 20.11.2016 UTC 08:05:01
> GLO sgee 20.11.2016 UTC 08:05:01
> 2. After syncing w/ Movescount on iOS
> GPS sgee 6.12.2016 UTC 08:05:01
> GLO sgee N/A
> 3. After syncing w/ Moveslink2 on windows 10
> GPS sgee 6.12.2016 UTC 08:05:01
> GLO sgee 6.12.2016 UTC 08:05:01
> 
> Redoing #2 shortly after didn't change anything, fortunately, so phone syncing the same day will not remove the GLO sgee.


This has been fixed now, works as expected, based on a couple of days of testing, have an iOS 10.2.1 / iPhone 6S. Both sgee are updated from the app, every time an update is available. BLE connection also works much better, just needs to activate the app and syncing starts. No need to manually connect to the watch, as I often needed to do before. Great!


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## pirx

How well does the BT syncing with Android phones work on this watch?


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