# NEW Laco Flieger Collection ? 10 new models!



## Uwe W.

*NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*















*Die neue Fliegeruhrenkollektion ist gelandet!

*
*The new Flieger watch collection has landed!

*​
Laco Uhrenmanufaktur GmbH has finally unveiled their new and highly anticipated Flieger Collection. Enthusiasts of the brand will immediately recognise that Laco has made a number of significant changes to its iconic designs. Not only do these historically inspired watches represent Laco's renewed commitment to authenticity, they also move the Flieger Collection higher up the scale of finely crafted timepieces.

Available in both A- and B-Muster dials, in 42 and 45 mm sizes, the ten new watches will be available in a choice of three different movements: ETA F.06.111 quartz, ETA 2804.2 Handwinding, and ETA 2824.2 Automatic.

Notable attributes of the new models include:

Cases with a new sandblasted finish and anti-fingerprint coating that is almost identical in colour to the cases used for the original Laco Beobachtungsuhren
Thermally blued hands
New dark-brown calfskin leather strap that is extremely soft
The 45 mm B-Muster dial has been redesigned
Historically correct luminescent B-Muster pattern
A synopsis of the new models, including their specs and photos can be found below:






























*All pricing includes VAT (non-EU residents subtract 19%)
































​


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## flyingpicasso

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I like what I see--definitely a new direction for Laco. More money, yes, but I think the market will respond favorably to Laco for meaningful quality upgrades. Thanks for posting!


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## mebiuspower

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Assuming the prices include VAT, if so will it be the same price for people outside of EU?

How does ETA 2804.2 compare to the 2801 movement? Would like to have more info if possible.

I can't tell from the photos the difference with case finish/colour compare to the previous model, a comparison photo would be nice.

Glad to see Laco watches getting the blued hands many people have been requesting!!!


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## Uwe W.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



mebiuspower said:


> Assuming the prices include VAT, if so will it be the same price for people outside of EU?
> 
> How does ETA 2804.2 compare to the 2801 movement? Would like to have more info if possible.
> 
> I can't tell from the photos the difference with case finish/colour compare to the previous model, a comparison photo would be nice.
> 
> Glad to see Laco watches getting the blued hands many people have been requesting!!!


I assume the prices include VAT; however, I will confirm this and update the initial post to reflect the situation. Non EU residents don't pay VAT, so you would remove 19 percent from the listed price (but add the duties and taxes your country would charge). Shipping costs are also dependent on your location. The Laco Shop has a very easy to follow guide on shipping.

The difference between an ETA 2801 and 2804 is the addition of a date wheel in the 2804 package. I suspect that the current ETA supply issues have forced Laco to use the 2804 so they can offer a handwinding movement. I don't know if they have left the date wheel in place - or removed it altogether during the watch's assembly process.

There are plenty of photos of the previous case in this forum to use as a comparison. Essentially though the new case is darker and more closely resembles the finish of the original B-Uhr. I haven't seen one yet, but those who have claim it's spectacular.


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## Uwe W.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Because I care... ;-)









There really isn't much to be gained by placing these two images together. For an accurate comparison we would need a photo of the two watches together in the same light to really appreciate the changes made to the case. From what I understand, there is also an inherent difference in the tactile appreciation of their finishes.


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## thomas69

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Well,I was thinking of getting a Laco for myself waiting for the new models to show.

Now that I saw the prices of the new models all I have to say is that I wish Laco good luck to the new direction that chose to follow b-)


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## KUNISMAN

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Love the new models. Love the possibility of an handwind. 
I´m a WW2 fanatic so i have to have one .
Only problem i see it´s the price. I don´t understand the increase in 160e on the ETA in all similar to the old one. I understand the blue hands are more expensive and the glass seems nicer, but this things we´ve already seen on a rival brand with an ever lower cost. 
I was exited but now i´m a little "sore".


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## Uwe W.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



KUNISMAN said:


> Only problem i see it´s the price. I don´t understand the increase in 160e on the ETA in all similar to the old one. I understand the blue hands are more expensive and the glass seems nicer, but this things we´ve already seen on a rival brand with an ever lower cost.


As was foretold in other threads here, we were expecting a general price increase across the board, something all watch manufacturers are currently contending with. You couple a base price increase with a new case finish and the thermally blued hands and suddenly the new prices are more understandable. I know it's a disappointing pill to swallow when something you want costs more, but it's the reality of operating a business at a profit. Had Laco not sold their Flieger watches for such low prices in the past, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. The current pricing is on par with what the real competition is charging.

Laco Flieger watches have been slowly moving upscale and I don't think you can blame the company for that. Laco should be building on their name; besides, they still offer the most affordably priced Flieger watches of the original five manufacturers, and have what I would argue is the best looking and most unique Flieger case.

I don't know which rival brand you were referring to that has a watch with these features at a lower price. The 42 mm Laco ETA auto is 10 Euro more than a 40 mm Stowa with the same movement, so I can't believe that's who you had in mind.


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## Dr Pepper

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I'm gonna put this bluntly; there is no reason why I should consider Archimede or even Tourby now. The upgrades are a nice plus, especially the the blue steel hands, which Stowa before has a monoply on.

Looking forward to picking up the Munster as well as a Stowa no date & logo sometime in the future.


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## KUNISMAN

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Don´t get me wrong *Uwe W.. *I´m not trying to be pityful i can understand the need, and the historical heritage that makes Laco to want to occupy an higher marketplace. The trouble is that i tend to see the "old Laco" competing with the "new Laco". 
And yes i was thinking of Stowa (just thought it´ld rude to mention it in Laco´s forum). I know it´s a smaller diam., and to be sincere i haven´t had any experience with both, but i´ve gotten the notion from several postes from this and another forum that in short Laco were the more original, historical correct, better sized and cheaper and Stowa on the other hand expressed better finishing, smaller but more "livable" case, more expensive. Now the parameters have changed i think. 
What bothers me the most it´s the fact that Stowa will actually produce a handwind piece with an ETA 2801 that will be cheaper than the Laco equivalent. I´m not complaining, mind you, it´s just i favored Laco more.

Probably tomorrow i´ll see things differently


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## thomas69

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



KUNISMAN said:


> Don´t get me wrong *Uwe W.. *I´m not trying to be pityful i can understand the need, and the historical heritage that makes Laco to want to occupy an higher marketplace. The trouble is that i tend to see the "old Laco" competing with the "new Laco".
> And yes i was thinking of Stowa (just thought it´ld rude to mention it in Laco´s forum). I know it´s a smaller diam., and to be sincere i haven´t had any experience with both, but i´ve gotten the notion from several postes from this and another forum that in short Laco were the more original, historical correct, better sized and cheaper and Stowa on the other hand expressed better finishing, smaller but more "livable" case, more expensive. Now the parameters have changed i think.
> What bothers me the most it´s the fact that Stowa will actually produce a handwind piece with an ETA 2801 that will be cheaper than the Laco equivalent. I´m not complaining, mind you, it´s just i favored Laco more.
> 
> Probably tomorrow i´ll see things differently


+1

I think it is kinda late for Laco to resettle to the customer's mind as a higher-end manufacturer and straight competitor to Stowa.


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## avatar1

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I'm impressed... These are good.


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## forestone

Uwe W. said:


> Because I care... ;-)
> 
> View attachment 562878
> 
> 
> There really isn't much to be gained by placing these two images together. For an accurate comparison we would need a photo of the two watches together in the same light to really appreciate the changes made to the case. From what I understand, there is also an inherent difference in the tactile appreciation of their finishes.


Hi uwe!

How about the case diameter of the old 42mm compared with the new 42mm? Exactly the same when compared to lug to lug and case plus crown distance?

Im having hard time comparing the two pics. Thanks.


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## t1026

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Here is the new Type A 42mm Automatic:

https://shop.laco.de/en/Muenster.html
And the Type A 42mm Handwind:

https://shop.laco.de/en/Memmingen.html

I bought a present Type A 42mm from Tony at timequest. I noticed the hands are not heated. Laco claimed they are "chemically treated." I call Tony and mentioned this new one to him. He said the case is special treated to make it more looks like the original. I personally love the "thermical blued steelhands" and now Stowa will not be the only one that has their hands heated blued. I don't remember whether the present Type A 42mm is luminous with C3 or not but it's good to know the new one is. I think the size and weight are identical. The strap is more "comfortable" although the present one is already quite so, they are just too long for me.

Laco is the most affordable, most precisely "original WWII" replicated, most unique lug-case design, and most reasonable size among the "original five" pilot watches. I think it is the "best bang for the buck" watch! I will trade mine with the new one.

Cheers.


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## mebiuspower

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I'm pasting links below to the last version Laco Fliegers if anyone wants to compare specs.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f367/new-laco-pilot-42-photos-specs-462631.html
https://www.watchuseek.com/f367/new-laco-pilot-45-photos-specs-462043.html
I just noticed compare to my old Type A the minute hand is thinner on the new version? Hour hand is thinner towards the center as well.


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## Andy S.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Wrt the new b-dial.....the dial has been modified....have the hands been scaled larger also?...they appear to be...:think:

Any plans to build another run of 55mm pilot of some sort...looks like i missed the boat on the 85th LE....


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## picklepossy

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Looks great. Can anyone tell me what the overall lug to lug length is on the 45mm?


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## Statius

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Wow! I think those look great! Very, very nice.


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## Uwe W.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



KUNISMAN said:


> What bothers me the most it´s the fact that Stowa will actually produce a handwind piece with an ETA 2801 that will be cheaper than the Laco equivalent. I´m not complaining, mind you, it´s just i favored Laco more.


Good post and good points. You've summed up things nicely; the only item I disagree with your comment above. The 2804 is the same as a 2801, except that it has a date wheel. I just had a peak at the Stowa site and couldn't find a Flieger that uses a 2801; from what I could see they were all 2824 automatics.

I don't want to turn this into a Stowa vs. Laco thread. I like Stowa a lot and own a rare vintage model, but I've never had any success in obtaining a new one. Their limited availability more than likely actually helps to drive demand. But for me it isn't a question of how these new Laco watches compare to Stowa, it's all about how they stand on their own as quality timepieces. While some may baulk at their price, I still think that they represent a good value. Even without the history behind the Laco name.



thomas69 said:


> I think it is kinda late for Laco to resettle to the customer's mind as a higher-end manufacturer and straight competitor to Stowa.


That's a very harsh statement. I don't think you know Laco very well; you certainly don't know about the quality of their watches. You should take a look at their other collections and see that Laco has many watches that are in Stowa's price range. I paid a fair amount for my 55 mm B-Uhr Replica and am more than pleased with it. Even my watchmaker, who works on $100,000 watches, was impressed with its quality, build and value.



forestone said:


> How about the case diameter of the old 42mm compared with the new 42mm? Exactly the same when compared to lug to lug and case plus crown distance? Im having hard time comparing the two pics. Thanks.


I only put the two photos together so that the case colouring could be compared, and even then, I warned that it wasn't a very accurate way to size them up. The photos are not to scale, but I can still answer your question. The new 42 mm is identical to the old one in that it uses the same case. What HAS changed is the sandblasting method used to detail it and the application of the anti-fingerprint finish; they combine to give the case a slightly darker look, one that Laco claims is even closer to the original.


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## Uwe W.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Andy S. said:


> Wrt the new b-dial.....the dial has been modified....have the hands been scaled larger also?...they appear to be...:think: Any plans to build another run of 55mm pilot of some sort...looks like i missed the boat on the 85th LE....


I was told that it now has all of the correct dimensions when I inquired about the dial, but didn't ask about the hands. I haven't had time since these were announced to sit down with my reference books and compare the fine details. Then again, I have a couple of different "generations" of Laco B-Uhrs and am kind of glad that the hands have changed slightly over the years. It would be hard to tell a few of them apart if they hadn't.

I haven't heard anything about a new 55 mm. But, I'd be willing to bet that another one will appear in their store some day. And I'd even be willing to double-down on that bet that it will feature the new sandblasting and anti-fingerprint finish. The 55 mm is a part of Laco's DNA; I can't imagine the company turning their back on that model. I'm still kicking myself in the butt for not buying one of the Limited Edition A-Muster Replicas to go with my B-Muster model. Those who bought them, must love them, because you don't see them come up for sale very often.


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## forestone

Thanks uwe!


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## avatar1

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Uwe W. said:


> I just had a peak at the Stowa site and couldn't find a Flieger that uses a 2801; from what I could see they were all 2824 automatics.


It's the currently sold out B version; word is that it will be available in the shop as an unlimited edition from early December with deliveries starting in March. No xmas present there...


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## Andy the Squirrel

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

It's nice to see Laco making improvements, surely can't be beaten if you want a high quality watch that looks most like the original.


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## MAWLER

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I tend to sit with some of the earlier comments regarding price point and brand placement. Price rises are inevitable and mostly justified following a model redesign as Uwe points out, but I think the price point now does affect the way a customer will view Laco in relation to its main competitor in the Flieger market. The choice between Stowa and Laco will now mostly be decided by size and form rather than price, not a bad thing, but the question remains the extent to which Laco can play at this higher price bracket. I have owned neither Stowa or Laco but the vibe I get from forums and articles is that Stowa are generally regarded to represent a higher quality, obviously ppl will disagree with that, but thats the impression I have as a potential customer. It will be interesting to see whether their new approach will lose them customers or lift their brand image. Then again, Stowa may lift their prices next month in response to market pressures and we are right back where we started 

For me the new heat treated blue hands are welcome and appreciated, but the price increase has more of an impact than any minor aesthetic improvements. Personally I wish I had bought the old model rather than waiting for the new, 130euro is enough to make this a stretch for me and now brings Stowa into the equation. But all this is just emotion talking, we'll have to see what a cold hard comparision and more thinking time will bring to the debate.


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## forestone

MAWLER said:


> I tend to sit with some of the earlier comments regarding price point and brand placement. Price rises are inevitable and mostly justified following a model redesign as Uwe points out, but I think the price point now does affect the way a customer will view Laco in relation to its main competitor in the Flieger market. The choice between Stowa and Laco will now mostly be decided by size and form rather than price, not a bad thing, but the question remains the extent to which Laco can play at this higher price bracket. I have owned neither Stowa or Laco but the vibe I get from forums and articles is that Stowa are generally regarded to represent a higher quality, obviously ppl will disagree with that, but thats the impression I have as a potential customer. It will be interesting to see whether their new approach will lose them customers or lift their brand image. Then again, Stowa may lift their prices next month in response to market pressures and we are right back where we started
> 
> For me the new heat treated blue hands are welcome and appreciated, but the price increase has more of an impact than any minor aesthetic improvements. Personally I wish I had bought the old model rather than waiting for the new, 130euro is enough to make this a stretch for me and now brings Stowa into the equation. But all this is just emotion talking, we'll have to see what a cold hard comparision and more thinking time will bring to the debate.


If i may add, the case design is something to be considered. The more close to the original, the better like the lugs.


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## kubelwagen

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Uwe W. said:


> Because I care... ;-)
> 
> View attachment 562878
> 
> 
> There really isn't much to be gained by placing these two images together. For an accurate comparison we would need a photo of the two watches together in the same light to really appreciate the changes made to the case. From what I understand, there is also an inherent difference in the tactile appreciation of their finishes.


Thanks Uwe, I hope someone posts an actual side-by-side pic as well -- am curious just how "dark" the new case is.

As advertised, the 45mm dials are now taller -- 13mm vs the 11mm height of the Frankfurt / Stuttgart. Is this because of the 2804.2 itself?

The engraving at the back looks to be the same as previous models which I find too shallow as if its just printed on. But its good to note that the B-muster's lume pattern is now closer to the original. The new dark brown strap is a welcome change as well.

Alas, I should have pulled the trigger on the Stuttgart a few months back. o| While the current prices came as a surprise to me, I'd still say its a good buy, and hope that it stays at that level for a while till I get to order one.

Cheers


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## mebiuspower

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



avatar1 said:


> It's the currently sold out B version; word is that it will be available in the shop as an unlimited edition from early December with deliveries starting in March. No xmas present there...


Of course, Stowa has always been very reliable with their estimated deliveries... :roll:

They may make quality watches but I'm frankly tired of waiting and waiting for elusive handwind/original/LE Flieger models that never arrive...


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## Cioran

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Memmingen is on its way, will post pics once it arrives. My first Laco. As much as I love my FO1 and as much as I am eagerly awaiting new 2801 Flieger to appear on Stowa's site, the price difference of maybe 110 Euros more than justifies the ease of just ordering and purchasing the watch you want and avoiding the pain of months long wait to get what is essentially a simple watch with run of the mill movement.


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## Uwe W.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Cioran said:


> Memmingen is on its way, will post pics once it arrives. My first Laco. As much as I love my FO1 and as much as I am eagerly awaiting new 2801 Flieger to appear on Stowa's site, the price difference of maybe 110 Euros more than justifies the ease of just ordering and purchasing the watch you want and avoiding the pain of months long wait to get what is essentially a simple watch with run of the mill movement.


Wow, I'm jealous. That's a nice introduction to the brand. And I can't wait to see the photos. I wonder if you'll be the very first to post images of a watch from the new collection here. Congratulations in advance.


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## Myron

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I am totally on board with the new hand shape on the A-dial and the new case finish. I'm afraid I will be needing an A and B dial variant. The question is whether to keep the previous generation specimens or move them on....

Happy Thanksgiving to all my US-based Laco friends,

Myron


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## paveiv

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Myron said:


> I am totally on board with the new hand shape on the A-dial and the new case finish. I'm afraid I will be needing an A and B dial variant. The question is whether to keep the previous generation specimens or move them on....
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving to all my US-based Laco friends,
> 
> Myron


Same "problem" here  But I will probably be keeping even the previous ones. I am already attached to them. The new changes seem very good, I have a feeling Dortmund (45mm, B-muster) will be the first addition next year. Damn.

I wonder how the new models will sell, more historically accurate body, hands blued by heat but the price...justifiable in my opinion but still the rise is very noticable.

Btw, about the Stowa vs Laco, as I have written many times, it is just a matter of taste. Two Stowas, two Lacos here, they are quite different, yes, in my opinion, the quality is better with the Stowa, it feels more "dressier" but Laco feels like a tool watch and the vintage feel is incomparable to Stowa.

And now it is drooling time  (btw, I have the 42mm 2801, Mannheim, was it?, on me right now)


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## thomas69

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I think it is further than a Laco vs Stowa matter after the severe price increase of Laco watches.

The price that Laco demands for some of its models come to the Sinn-Damasko territory.Almost same price but better specifications with the last two ones.


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## mebiuspower

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



thomas69 said:


> I think it is further than a Laco vs Stowa matter after the severe price increase of Laco watches.
> 
> The price that Laco demands for some of its models come to the Sinn-Damasko territory.Almost same price but better specifications with the last two ones.


It's debatable topic... have you seen how much Sinn 556 was selling 1-2 years ago and how much it is now? Price went up 40% give or take and it's the *exact* same watch.

Besides, Sinn has an annual increase in price across the board every year. It's all about the baseline.


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## Uwe W.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



thomas69 said:


> I think it is further than a Laco vs Stowa matter after the severe price increase of Laco watches. The price that Laco demands for some of its models come to the Sinn-Damasko territory.Almost same price but better specifications with the last two ones.


With all due respect, I think you're being silly now. It's also your third or fourth post in which you're complain about the prices. I appreciate if Laco's price increase has disappointed you, but is it really necessary to keep repeating that you think they're too expensive. Unlike you, I have no issue holding my Laco up in comparison to the other brands; their quality justifies the cost - and Laco deserves to position itself on par with other Flieger manufacturers. I'll take the Laco over all of the others hands down. It's far cheaper than the Damasko, and even though its 10 EUR more than the Stowa, it has a bigger - more authentic - case AND it's available now. Moving up to a 45 mm Laco Flieger *is* a price jump, but that's a size that Stowa and Damasko don't even offer.

40 mm Stowa Flieger using an ETA 2824 = 640 EUR (VAT incl.) Delivery time - March 2012

42 mm Laco Flieger using an ETA 2824 = 650 EUR (VAT incl.) Delivery time - NOW

40 mm Damasko Flieger-style using an ETA 2836 = 850 EUR (VAT incl.)
38.5 mm Sinn (bare bones automatic model) = $1,000 USD


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## Uwe W.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Myron said:


> The question is whether to keep the previous generation specimens or move them on....





paveiv said:


> Same "problem" here  But I will probably be keeping even the previous ones. I am already attached to them. The new changes seem very good, I have a feeling Dortmund (45mm, B-muster) will be the first addition next year.


No question for me; I'm keeping all of my older models. Just like paveiv's sentiment, I'm too attached to them to let them go. There is another reason; I view my older models as different watches from the new ones. Without counting, I have around half-a-dozen Flieger watches with the same Baumuster from various manufacturers, and although the dials are extremely similar, each watch has its own feel when I'm wearing it. The same thing will apply to my older generation Laco B-Uhrs; very similar, but very different in how they make me feel. One thing I do need is another 55 mm, but with the A-Muster dial; just like Myron, I'd really like to have a complimentary 'set'.


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## thomas69

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Uwe W. said:


> With all due respect, I think you're being silly now. It's also your third or fourth post in which you're complain about the prices. I appreciate if Laco's price increase has disappointed you, but is it really necessary to keep repeating that you think they're too expensive. Unlike you, I have no issue holding my Laco up in comparison to the other brands; their quality justifies the cost - and Laco deserves to position itself on par with other Flieger manufacturers. I'll take the Laco over all of the others hands down. It's far cheaper than the Damasko, and even though its 10 EUR more than the Stowa, it has a bigger - more authentic - case AND it's available now. Moving up to a 45 mm Laco Flieger *is* a price jump, but that's a size that Stowa and Damasko don't even offer.
> 
> 40 mm Stowa Flieger using an ETA 2824 = 640 EUR (VAT incl.) Delivery time - March 2012
> 
> 42 mm Laco Flieger using an ETA 2824 = 650 EUR (VAT incl.) Delivery time - NOW
> 
> 40 mm Damasko Flieger-style using an ETA 2836 = 850 EUR (VAT incl.)
> 38.5 mm Sinn (bare bones automatic model) = $1,000 USD


Excuse me for being repetitive,my previous post was an answer to a member that happened to agree with.I would like to explain myself because my initial thought was that in the new Laco's price range there are multiple selections of flieger watches to be made apart from Stowa and even in an upper category like Sinn and Damasko,which both of them were stated as an example and their prices are quite similar.

I cannot enter into the situation of comparing prices,case diameters and analyzing characteristics or the pros and cons of Laco against other brands offering pilot watches because the list is unlimited.Everyone that is seriously considering getting a pilot watch should already know which company to choose and at which price.

I have no doubt about Laco's quality,yes I do believe that their new prices are high however I don't feel dissapointed by Laco because I tend to buy what suits me best.

So,no bad feelings.


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## LH2

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I like what I see. I own the previous hand wind A-Dial Karlsruhe, but might just spring for one from the new 42mm Flieger line just for the thermally blued hands and new case finish.

I presume the case dimensions and lugs remain the same as the older 42mm models?


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## fachiro1

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Being a long time Laco fan, i have this to offer. Yes, we all want a watch with all the features for less money, but a company has to thrive. Why, jusy a year ago, there was the possiblity that the company was going to fold...or at least rumors, and today, they are offering more models, more features, and they have stayed true to the roots of their historical design. I say Bravo! Laco!

Yes, Stowa and Jorg are meticulous when it comes to fit and finish, and quality. The watches are very well done. Conrad Damasko offers a lot of technology in a watch for a very good price too. They are all great watches.

But they are not Laco. With Laco, you get the historically correct designed case. Solid pressure fit back, correct dials, hand wind, auto, even quartz options. A lot more choices. The Stowa, though one of the 5 historical companies, has a case that doesnt resemble at all, the historical case. The FO case is the same case as the Marine Original, and the 40mm has a coventional case. Damasko DA series are modern designs.

I have owned all these watches and have loved them all, but For the most authentic design, the prize goes to Laco. Ive had just about every model, from the old sub second hand wind to the 55mm new edition. My favorite is still the WUS LE.

They are all quality watches.


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## Myron

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



fachiro1 said:


> Being a long time Laco fan, i have this to offer. Yes, we all want a watch with all the features for less money, but a company has to thrive. Why, jusy a year ago, there was the possiblity that the company was going to fold...or at least rumors, and today, they are offering more models, more features, and they have stayed true to the roots of their historical design. I say Bravo! Laco!
> 
> Yes, Stowa and Jorg are meticulous when it comes to fit and finish, and quality. The watches are very well done. Conrad Damasko offers a lot of technology in a watch for a very good price too. They are all great watches.
> 
> But they are not Laco. With Laco, you get the historically correct designed case. Solid pressure fit back, correct dials, hand wind, auto, even quartz options. A lot more choices. The Stowa, though one of the 5 historical companies, has a case that doesnt resemble at all, the historical case. The FO case is the same case as the Marine Original, and the 40mm has a coventional case. Damasko DA series are modern designs.
> 
> I have owned all these watches and have loved them all, but For the most authentic design, the prize goes to Laco. Ive had just about every model, from the old sub second hand wind to the 55mm new edition. My favorite is still the WUS LE.
> 
> They are all quality watches.


Right on, Fachiro. You have said it well.

Myron


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## clew84

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Love the new models - changes make a lot of sense. I am thinking of getting the type B, 42mm, hand wound model (the Leipzig). Anyone have any of the new models, and if so, what's your take so far?


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## Clockwork Blue

Uwe W. said:


> The difference between an ETA 2801 and 2804 is the addition of a date wheel in the 2804 package. I suspect that the current ETA supply issues have forced Laco to use the 2804 so they can offer a handwinding movement. I don't know if they have left the date wheel in place - or removed it altogether during the watch's assembly process.


Thanks for the info Uwe! Great new models!

With the 2804 movement, noting a date wheel, in setting the time, would one have to be mindful of the 10 to 2 rule to avoid damage... or would that mechanism be disengaged?


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## rationaltime

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

ETA does not state any warnings or restrictions about setting the date
on the 2804-2 movement.

Thanks,
rationaltime


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## Andy the Squirrel

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Why is the 2804 model more expensive than the 2824 model? What grade are the movements? Why doesnt Laco provide photographs showing inside the watches?


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## mebiuspower

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Andy the Squirrel said:


> Why is the 2804 model more expensive than the 2824 model?


Scarcity of the movement perhaps?


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## avatar1

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Andy the Squirrel said:


> Why is the 2804 model more expensive than the 2824 model? What grade are the movements?


Plus, the 2824 is not built for extensive manual winding, it ... degenerates.


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## EZM1

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



avatar1 said:


> Plus, the 2824 is not built for extensive manual winding, it ... degenerates.


What would extensive winding be? Would you say just enough to get it ticking when starting up?


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## avatar1

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



EZM1 said:


> What would extensive winding be? Would you say just enough to get it ticking when starting up?


I've heard several watchmakers advise against winding a 2824 altogether and instead suggest shaking the watch to get it going. The gears involved in manual winding are prone to aging quicker than those in true manual wind movements.

But I guess a little winding to get it running is fine, just don't wind it every day.


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## Renisin

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

If you would like to order a Flieger handwind,please send Stowa an email. I am sure Viveca or Mrs. Schauer would be glad to help you! They are well worth the price and would be a great addition to your collection.

It's funny that when your number one, everyone else comes gunning for you, as was earlier said lets not make this a Stowa bashing thread. Its more to the point do you like the new Lacos and are you willing the pay the additional price to get one, that should be the question,but if you want to, we can discuss the pros and cons,Stowa vs Laco.

Ren


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## Packleader

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I agree 100%.



flyingpicasso said:


> I like what I see--definitely a new direction for Laco. More money, yes, but I think the market will respond favorably to Laco for meaningful quality upgrades. Thanks for posting!


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## Laxntiga

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

ARggGGG, I should have waited a bit until I bought my Laco... My biggest gripe is the painted blue hands, not the real blued hands *sigh.

My Stowa is too small, my Laco is perfectly sized... *sigh what a dilemma.

*Edit,

I read all the past posts. I think the price is justifiable. You can't really compare LACO to STOWA. I bought both just to compare these two watches, its comparing apples to oranges. Yes, they have simlar histories, however they are two completely different watches.

The Stowa has a better fit and finish, it feels more of a dressier watch. It's also smaller and thinner, so it fits under the dress shirts. Great watch, however... my Laco gets more wrist time. Wearing the Laco just feels... more wholesome imho. Originally I was a Stowa fan (still am), however Laco is the gem in my eyes.

I'm so angry my current Laco doesn't have the real blued hands. I might have to purchase another Laco to see it for myself.


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## abingdon

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I've always admired Lacos from afar - I've owned a couple other replica fliegers in the past and in fact I own a couple Stowas. I'm thinking about buying another, and decided to check out Laco's website. Have to say, I'm really digging the new offerings. I like the 45mm availability (big, but wearable) and the availability of a handwind movement. Not to mention the overall authenticity that Laco provides. I'm not sure any other brand offers this particular combination, so I say well done. I may just have to pick up a Dortmund or Westerland (or both!) this year.


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## Uwe W.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Laxntiga said:


> I'm so angry my current Laco doesn't have the real blued hands. I might have to purchase another Laco to see it for myself.


Just a thought. Why don't you email Laco and see if they'll sell you a set of the new hands for your watch? Seems like a simple solution and you would have a neat and rare "crossover" Laco.


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## Laxntiga

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Uwe W. said:


> Just a thought. Why don't you email Laco and see if they'll sell you a set of the new hands for your watch? Seems like a simple solution and you would have a neat and rare "crossover" Laco.


I was contemplating it... I am still checking out the new one. Maybe i'll sell my old laco for one of the new ones hmmm...
I have to read up about the movements as well. My current laco isn't even "broken in" yet (runs about 4 seconds fast - manual wind).


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## Chris Hughes

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I always thought IWC was #1 in this segment.

That said, i'm drooling over the Dortmund...



Renisin said:


> If you would like to order a Flieger handwind,please send Stowa an email. I am sure Viveca or Mrs. Schauer would be glad to help you! They are well worth the price and would be a great addition to your collection.
> 
> It's funny that when your number one, everyone else comes gunning for you, as was earlier said lets not make this a Stowa bashing thread. Its more to the point do you like the new Lacos and are you willing the pay the additional price to get one, that should be the question,but if you want to, we can discuss the pros and cons,Stowa vs Laco.
> 
> Ren


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## Renisin

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Only in cost!


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## brainless

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



> I've heard several *watchmakers *advise against winding a 2824 altogether and instead suggest shaking the watch to get it going. The gears involved in manual winding are prone to aging quicker than those in true manual wind movements.
> 
> But I guess a little winding to get it running is fine, just don't wind it every day.


They weren't "watchmakers"............may be they can replace a battery.:-d

They should know that there is a clutch to prevent any harm to the automatic movement when winding it up.
When looking in ETA's spare part catalogue you will find identical part numbers for i.e. 2824 (automatic) and 2801 (handwind), regarding pinions and wheels.

Volker ;-)


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## Horlosjebedonderd

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Friends, can any one tell me if the 2804 movement has the "stop seconds" function like the modified Unitas movement with centralised seconds has? I refer to a features that causes the seconds hand to stop at "12" if the crown is pulled out.


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## StufflerMike

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

The Westerland does hack indeed.


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## Horlosjebedonderd

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Mike, I know this is a very old discussion and I enter it late, but if that is the case, then I am amazed that this fact was never shared with persons who participated in this discussion! The feature we are talking about, namely for the seconds hand to hack at the "12" position when the crown is pulled out is ONLY found in the modified Unitas movement, apart now from the ETA 2804.2 movement in the Westerland. The modified Unitas movement is currently only produced on a regular basis by Azimuth and Tourby as far as I know. Watches with this movement are significantly more expensive than the Westerland but then, the modified Unitas is a beautiful movement to admire through a transparant caseback. Neither the Azimuth nor the Tourby come close to the original look and feel of the BUhr however as can now be experienced with the Westerland and the Dortmund. The original BUhr did not have transparent casebacks anyway although the movements were beautiful. I was saving up for an IWC Big Pilot until I discovered recently that it does not have the "stop at 12" hack feature and as a consequence I have lost interest in it. Owners of the Big Pilot like to point out how close to the original BUhr it is, but, in fact, it is very far removed from the original: it is automatic, does not hack at "12", has a date feature, has a power reserve indicator, has the "wrong" case finish..... The same line of argumentation can be levelled at all the other brands that make BUhr homages but to me the most important one is the "stop at 12" hacking function. Its absence would be like making a chrono with chrono registers but without using a chrono movement in the watch. I am of the opinion that there is nothing out there that comes even close to the shadow of the Westerland and the Dortmund. I was wondering if the Dortmund does not have the exact same feature and then, what about the 42mm models with the same movement? Another question I have is why on earth Laco does not include a referende to this in their descriptions of these watches? At least Juwelier Haeffner mentions it in his description of the Westerland and that is how I became interested in the latest Laco products.


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## watchma

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

@ *Horlosjebedonderd* - I have recently bought the Memmingen with a 2804 movement.

It has the hack function , but all it does it stop the movement dead at whatever the seconds hand happens to be at the time as soon as you pull the crown out, could be 11,23,47 or whatever seconds, not at "12"
I also have a laco frankfurt (think its 2801 based) and a 2801 hamilton which also do the exact same

Is this stopping at "12" a different feature some movements have?


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## Horlosjebedonderd

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Yes, the feature I refer to is one whereby pilots got together just before a mission - as I understand - and in order to synchronsie watches for the mission at hand, the crowns were pulled and the watches were stopped with the seconds hands at "12". The time was then set and all watches were set into motion simultaneously so that time measurement during flight could be as accurate as possible. I owned a Steinhart with the modified Unitas movement. If you pull the crown out the seconds hand will just keep on running but when it reaches "12" the movement will stop with the seconds hand exactly on "12".


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## watchma

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Horlosjebedonderd said:


> I owned a Steinhart with the modified Unitas movement. If you pull the crown out the seconds hand will just keep on running but when it reaches "12" the movement will stop with the seconds hand exactly on "12".


Ah right, that's not the "hack" I know about where it just stops the second hand on demand (like the 2801 and 2804 I've described), the one you describe is a new one on me


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## Horlosjebedonderd

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

Yes, it was for me as well and because it is such a unique feature that seems to have originated with the BUhr I want one with that feature, or not have it at all. The look alone is not enough for me.


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## StufflerMike

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

The GO Flieger has the zero reset feature.


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## Uwe W.

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*



Horlosjebedonderd said:


> Yes, it was for me as well and because it is such a unique feature that seems to have originated with the BUhr I want one with that feature, or not have it at all. The look alone is not enough for me.


I wasn't aware that the original B-Uhr reset to 12 when hacked and have to say that it would be a bit of a surprise to me if they did. I don't recall reading anywhere that reset hacking was a requirement of the original specifications for the watch. Since different manufacturers' movements were used in the production of the original B-Uhrs, such a specification would require each of these different movements to re-set to 12, and to my knowledge the IWC built B-Uhr only stopped the movement when the crown was pulled out, not reset it to 12. In other words, to synchronise the time of his watch a navigator would just do what we all do now, which is to wait for the second hand to reach 12 and then pull out the crown.

Where's Janne in this thread? He owns an original and could answer this question fast.


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## StufflerMike

*Re: NEW Laco Flieger Collection - 10 new models!*

I am puzzled too, the Stowa has no zero reset. At least none of the WW II B-watches I had in my hands...........


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