# Jaeger-LeCoultre watch accuracy standards



## Pun

Hi. Since there are few threads here concerning the accuracy; I invite friends here to share their experience with the accuracy of their watches so that we get a proper perspective about JLC standard on accuracy to analyse our watches. Till now I believed that they would at least adhere to the COSC standards after claiming1000 hour rigorous Master Control Tests.... please share your feedback. Thanks


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## qtip.416

Great idea. 

JLC 976 Grande Reverso - ~4yrs old ran at +3s/day

JLC Master Control - ~4 yrs old ran at -3s/day

JLC TT1931 new no seconds hands to check accuracy 

JLC Memovox ~16yrs old ran +1min/day (sent for service)


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## Pun

Reserve de Marche - 7 months old - 8s/d after service as it stopped twice while fully wound. 
Geophysic Tribute 1958 - 2 months old - gone for service as it was running 15 s/d.


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## probep

Jaeger-LeCoultre Reverso Duo ref. 2718410 (172.8.51)


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## Hyu Chen

Yes the AD gave me that exact same test report little paper stating +6sec Max .
But after testing it a few days under normal wearing conditions it is in fact +16-20 sec per day (on my newly serviced overhauled master geographic )

went back lack to the AD and they confirmed that +16-20 sec per day is well within thier quality standards... 

I have it serviced in the first place because it was +16 as the AD recommended. Got it back after serviced and still same problem...


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## Pcurtin8

Master control came back from service +8. Bugs the hell out if me. I Got my Rolex explorer serviced at same time and it runs solid at +2. They also did better polish job and it was $400 cheaper.
Not ready to give up on JLC though. I still love a lot of their watches.


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## Hyu Chen

I'd have to agree with Pcurtin8 with this one. 
My JLC came back with +16 after service (which JLC claims to be within thier standards) while my sub runs with spot on accuracy. Here's a comparison side by side.


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## Pun

Should we take it as the standard watch accuracy they test and pass under 1000 hours rigorous tests?? The company claims the Master Control test more stringent than COSC standards!! But I understand COSC permits -2 +4 s/d variation .... I'm flummoxed to say the least....


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## Hyu Chen

After I was told by the AD and JLC's overseas client relations department that +16-20 sec per day was within thier standards , the next day I emailed JLC's official site again to request a official letter stating thier claim that my watch is 'within standard' for gaining +16. I haven't heard back from them ever since. (A week ago)

ill try to follow up on the issue and post updates here on the forum .


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## Pun

Hyu Chen said:


> After I was told by the AD and JLC's overseas client relations department that +16-20 sec per day was within thier standards , the next day I emailed JLC's official site again to request a official letter stating thier claim that my watch is 'within standard' for gaining +16. I haven't heard back from them ever since. (A week ago)
> 
> ill try to follow up on the issue and post updates here on the forum .


That would be a great post here. Eagerly waiting for your post on their response to your request. Thanks


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## Mirabello1

Wow, I have always heard not so great things about the accuracy of JLC movements, but these posts do not sound good
. Maybe JLC should put a solid workhorse like a 2824-2 or a 2892-2 in their watches, which in my personal experience have always kept very good time, much better than the reports here and other places I've read..

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## patton250

My 10 year old Master Geographic is -.5 seconds a day. It was just serviced by Govberg. My Reverso Grand Date (I thinks it's a 2008) is -.75 seconds a day.


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## Pun

Fantastic. Does it mean something went wrong in last 5-8 years....


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## Hyu Chen

Ok guys, I've finally heard back from them again after following up with another email.

Thier reply basically in short: more waiting time and they're looking into it.

ive posted screen shots of thier reply and my emails to them just in case anyone is interested to read them.

View attachment 7305674
View attachment 7305682


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## Emre

JLC MC 2 months old 1sec/24h


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## qtip.416

Thanks for keeping us posted. Can't see your attachments yet bc I believ you're a new member and need a certain number of posts before this can happen. If u pm me I can add it to this thread for others to see (I'm curious myself). Thx



Hyu Chen said:


> Ok guys, I've finally heard back from them again after following up with another email.
> 
> Thier reply basically in short: more waiting time and they're looking into it.
> 
> ive posted screen shots of thier reply and my emails to them just in case anyone is interested to read them.
> 
> View attachment 7305674
> View attachment 7305682


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## Hyu Chen

Thank you qtip for your help, much appreciated, ive just emailed you the screenshots.



qtip.416 said:


> Thanks for keeping us posted. Can't see your attachments yet bc I believ you're a new member and need a certain number of posts before this can happen. If u pm me I can add it to this thread for others to see (I'm curious myself). Thx


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## qtip.416




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## Mirabello1

Hard to believe 15-20sec a day would be considered normal by JLC.. Kinda crazy! 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Chris Stark

The watch companies are now doing what the airlines have been doing for years. If the flight is really 2 hours long, their official time for flight is stated as 2.5 hours long. So if it takes 2:25, 25 minutes long than usual, they list the flight as an on time arrival. 

Pretty soon all watch companies will tell you that + or - a minute a day is ok and will refuse to accept returns or repairs on anything 59 seconds off one way or the other.

This will cover most of the issues that could occur to a watch once it's left the factory/store: Shipping, dropped, heat, cold, humidity, improper storage, water, etc.


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## Mirabello1

Chris Stark said:


> The watch companies are now doing what the airlines have been doing for years. If the flight is really 2 hours long, their official time for flight is stated as 2.5 hours long. So if it takes 2:25, 25 minutes long than usual, they list the flight as an on time arrival.
> 
> Pretty soon all watch companies will tell you that + or - a minute a day is ok and will refuse to accept returns or repairs on anything 59 seconds off one way or the other.
> 
> This will cover most of the issues that could occur to a watch once it's left the factory/store: Shipping, dropped, heat, cold, humidity, improper storage, water, etc.


I would probably say I have to disagree with this as two big name watch companies, Omega and Rolex are going in the direction of tighter tolerances.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## FlyinMN

I think JLC's are capable of great accuracy but I think the 1000 hrs control is lame marketing hype and they have some quality control issues. 

My GRUT duo is keeping nearly perfect time as a daily wearer and setting it crown down at night. It was +13 sec/day when I got if from the AD new right out of the box as ordered from JLC. I wore it for a month and it didn't get better. My AD agreed that that was not acceptable and sent it off to the US service center where is was adjusted as a warranty service. Three weeks off my wrist and they got regulated very well. But, why wasn't it regulated in the first place? 

Who knows, maybe a new watch sitting in a box waiting for it's first owner changes? At the end of the day, mine is still running perfect after 6 months of daily wear and I wouldn't part with it for anything.


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## ridley

My Geophysic True Second is plus 2.5 seconds per day, I'm happy with that.


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## Pun

ridley said:


> My Geophysic True Second is plus 2.5 seconds per day, I'm happy with that.


That's really cool. Anything between 0 to +4 second a day is very accurate for a mechanical watch. Thanks for sharing.


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## Sergey1971

My JLC Master Control with 899 movement inside is +3 sec per day after full service by JLC. 


Отправлено из моего iPhone используя Tapatalk


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## Pun

Yesterday Rolex officially announced that its all movements starting 31xx shall confirm to -2+2 s/d accuracy standard. In fact their watches still perform within that range. JLC is any day a better and more sophisticated watchmaker. We expect better performance from them. My 7 months old RdM runs +8 second a day....


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## Hyu Chen

Hi guys,

Heres the latest update...
ive finally got my watch back from service.
and it is now +6-7sec / day compared to +16 sec / day previously.
the service center said that's the most they could adjust it.
which includes lowering the amplitude of the watch.

oh well. I guess if it's under +10 it's acceptable...


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## Wavava

From a very recent article I read:

JLC Master Ultra Thin

1.6-4 seconds fast in different positions....

Not sure that's saying much.

Seems to have performed slightly worse than PP and Lange in this comparison.


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## CristobalGordo

I have a Miyota 9015 that runs +1 sec per day and several Orients that run between +2 and +8 sec per day. If Orient can manage to put accurate movements in their watches, you'd think JLC would be able to, also. And mind you, my whole Orient collection probably cost less than the SERVICE on a JLC watch. Sounds like JLC should stop resting on their laurels and take some of the vast sums they earn from their exorbitant prices and invest it in developing some new movements. Or they could buy an Orient Mako for $100 and try to reverso engineer it.


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## Pun

CristobalGordo said:


> I have a Miyota 9015 that runs +1 sec per day and several Orients that run between +2 and +8 sec per day. If Orient can manage to put accurate movements in their watches, you'd think JLC would be able to, also. And mind you, my whole Orient collection probably cost less than the SERVICE on a JLC watch. Sounds like JLC should stop resting on their laurels and take some of the vast sums they earn from their exorbitant prices and invest it in developing some new movements. Or they could buy an Orient Mako for $100 and try to reverso engineer it.


+1. You couldn't have said better. It's high time JLC must take their job seriously and perform at least little better than ETA to say the least.


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## Mirabello1

CristobalGordo said:


> I have a Miyota 9015 that runs +1 sec per day and several Orients that run between +2 and +8 sec per day. If Orient can manage to put accurate movements in their watches, you'd think JLC would be able to, also. And mind you, my whole Orient collection probably cost less than the SERVICE on a JLC watch. Sounds like JLC should stop resting on their laurels and take some of the vast sums they earn from their exorbitant prices and invest it in developing some new movements. Or they could buy an Orient Mako for $100 and try to reverso engineer it.


Completely agreed

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## Jazzham

My Squadra, (since this time, 2013) has run +1 to +2/day. In November, I picked up a modern Master Calendar and it is about +4/day. Did have a Master Control and it ran about +3 to +4 a day. What I like about these watches is the audible spinning rotor and I change watches throughout the day and it doesn't take much movement to keep these pieces running without stopping and resetting.


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## Pun

BTW I checked this week my Omega coaxial prestige watch that is now 6 years old gaining only 1.1 second a day!!


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## BlueIn2Red

My Duometre is running essentially bang on (-0.2 per day according to my Watch Tracker app), although admittedly this is only over a four day measurement period so far. Delighted with that!


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## Pun

That's good. We all expect JLC to perform like that always. It has a rich history and excellent tradition to protect and take forward. Hope they resolve issues with the models facing such problems asap...


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## Knisse

This is scary reading, especially regarding some of the customer service experiences with JLC. That official who mentions that +16-20 seconds is normal must have been in a hurry or not been thinking, that cannot be the case. I hope that you, Hyu Chen*, *continue to press and get a respond which hopefully strongly deny that this is the case. If some official from JLC website confirms that +/- 16-20 is within norm then i am definitely avoiding JLC and looking elsewhere for my graduation gift.

We all know that mechanical watches will not be 100% accurate, if you want that get a cheap quartz watch. But i would expect GOOD customer service each time and at least +/- 5 a day brand new or after service. JLC brand live on their history and tradition, they are known as fine craftsmen but if they cannot live up to +/- 5 second a day new or after service then i would strongly consider whether the reputation fits them.

Just to add, as with most companies all you hear is the negative cases, if you are pleased with the product you obviously do not have the same needs to share your sentiments. I can even forgot that their service costs are blatantly high - they are a luxury good, so their prices in all regards will be higher - but i am dissapointed that the representative you talked to Hyu Chen did not immediately deny that 16-20 seconds a day is within norm, that should never be the case after a service or a new JLC watch.


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## Addicted

I tested my JLC MUT RG against my Rolex Daytona TT. The Rolex performs way better, +4 seconds. The JLC was over 2 minutes out (fast). Both tested over 10 days. To say shocked was an understatement. I paid far more for the JLC as it has the Diamond bezel, and to get these performance figures has steered me away from another JLC, as I was going to get the JLC Geophysic Universal Time. Not anymore, it's Skydweller time for me. It quite disappointing all things considered and the heritage of the JLC, being the watchmakers watch. Both watches were in my winder set at correct settings for rotation, JLC actually being CCW and the Daytona mixed. Shame as I had my heart set on another JLC.


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## Mirabello1

Not to add fuel to the fire, but even Watchtime magazine had time keeping issues with the movement in a JLC navy seals and tested it against the same JLC movement in other JLC watches and had the same issue.

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## IveBeenMoved

Addicted said:


> I tested my JLC MUT RG against my Rolex Daytona TT. The Rolex performs way better, +4 seconds. The JLC was over 2 minutes out (fast). Both tested over 10 days. To say shocked was an understatement. I paid far more for the JLC as it has the Diamond bezel, and to get these performance figures has steered me away from another JLC, as I was going to get the JLC Geophysic Universal Time. Not anymore, it's Skydweller time for me. It quite disappointing all things considered and the heritage of the JLC, being the watchmakers watch. Both watches were in my winder set at correct settings for rotation, JLC actually being CCW and the Daytona mixed. Shame as I had my heart set on another JLC.


Just wondering when was the last time that you've had either watch serviced and specifically regulated as part of that service, if at all. My RG MUT Moon is averaging ~8 sec fast per day over a two week span. My Rolex Explorer II is averaging ~ 6 sec fast per day, again over a two week period. Neither of these two watches have been serviced yet as they're both less than four years old.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## kgkg

Hyu Chen said:


> After I was told by the AD and JLC's overseas client relations department that +16-20 sec per day was within thier standards , the next day I emailed JLC's official site again to request a official letter stating thier claim that my watch is 'within standard' for gaining +16. I haven't heard back from them ever since. (A week ago)
> 
> ill try to follow up on the issue and post updates here on the forum .


I am eager to hear your story. What email did you use to contact JLC client relations?


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## Knisse

kgkg said:


> I am eager to hear your story. What email did you use to contact JLC client relations?


I am eager as well to hear what reply JLC gives, please keep us updated, especially regarding whether they find it acceptable or not.

I have just written to JLC as well, and directly asking them if there is any cases where a JLC (new or just serviced), which lost/gained +/- 16-20 seconds in 24 hours would be within their norm. I used their standard customer service on their website and then make a request. No idea if they reply or not.


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## Kal El

Wow this is not great news, especially since I'm considering to buy a Reverso this year


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## GrouchoM

Each movement is supposed to adhere to its own specs (as opposed to the all meeting the same specs). The US service department's email is [email protected].

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Knisse

GrouchoM said:


> Each movement is supposed to adhere to its own specs (as opposed to the all meeting the same specs). The US service department's email is [email protected].
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Could you pleasa elaborate, where exactly do you find the listing of each own specs? If its at their website then please provide exact link as i am unable to find it.

This sounds abit strange. Also if Rolex is able to offer +/- 2 at each watch, then why is JLC, which are supposedly superior in craftmanship not even able to offer something close too? Does the advanced complications mess so much with accuracy, i sincerely hope not.

The bitterness is not directed at you GrouchoM, but rather abit annoyed by all this questioning of accuracy since one of the reasons i want to purchase a JLC is their supposed superior craftmanship, but if they cannot even keep accurate then maybe i need to look elsewhere.


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## GrouchoM

Craftsmanship does not necessarily equate to accuracy. Once again, email or call their service center and ask about a specific movement's specs. For instance, a manual wind or ultrathin may not have as tight a spec as a basic automatic three hander. I knew my Deep Sea Chrono (cal 758) had worse specs than my Omega chronometer. It's delta was 30 s/d versus Omega's 15s/d. Also, JLC'S specs worsened more when the power reserve dropped than Omega. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Knisse

GrouchoM said:


> Craftsmanship does not necessarily equate to accuracy. Once again, email or call their service center and ask about a specific movement's specs. For instance, a manual wind or ultrathin may not have as tight a spec as a basic automatic three hander. I knew my Deep Sea Chrono (cal 758) had worse specs than my Omega chronometer. It's delta was 30 s/d versus Omega's 15s/d. Also, JLC'S specs worsened more when the power reserve dropped than Omega.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Well, to me craftmanship contains several things, where reliable accuracy after service or a brand new watch should definitely be covered. Isnt that just basic 101?

30 s/d? that sounds quite ridiculous to me. If this is the case then JLC are just fancy, but useless complications (which no-one uses, but only buys because they look aesthetically pleasing), with poor timekeeping standards - again not expecting quartz timekeeping, but comeon 30 s/d a day or close by is quite bad.

I am starting to re-consider if JLC really is the brand for me, if this is the case.


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## GrouchoM

I wrote that the delta was 30s/d. The delta is the rate difference (at full wind) between the fastest position and the slowest position. Omega chronometers spec 15s/d. As I recall, the JLC 758 has a max beat error of 0.5 which is also larger that the permissible Omega spec. OTOH, the JLC Deep Sea chrono is drop dead gorgeous.


> Well, to me craftmanship contains several things, where reliable accuracy after service or a brand new watch should definitely be covered. Isnt that just basic 101?


 You're singing to the choir.


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## Knisse

I emailed JLC and got an answer pretty shiftly. I asked in regards to be both new or just serviced watches, his answer was only in reply to my inquiry regarding new watches and not older watches which has been serviced. He states that +20 second is not normal as new watches should "ideally" be within -4/+6 a day. I am not sure i like the word ideally in stead of something more firm that clearly shows that they have firm standards here. I have sent a follow up email and will hopefully be able to shed further light on this.


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## probep

Knisse said:


> I emailed JLC and got an answer pretty shiftly. I asked in regards to be both new or just serviced watches, his answer was only in reply to my inquiry regarding new watches and not older watches which has been serviced. He states that +20 second is not normal as new watches should "ideally" be within -4/+6 a day. I am not sure i like the word ideally in stead of something more firm that clearly shows that they have firm standards here. I have sent a follow up email and will hopefully be able to shed further light on this.


Can you post the screenshots of their reply?


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## Knisse

probep said:


> Can you post the screenshots of thier reply?


I would prefer not to. Their official email clearly indicate that it is confidential and i would like to, within limits, respect that.


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## Pun

Knisse said:


> I emailed JLC and got an answer pretty shiftly. I asked in regards to be both new or just serviced watches, his answer was only in reply to my inquiry regarding new watches and not older watches which has been serviced. He states that +20 second is not normal as new watches should "ideally" be within -4/+6 a day. I am not sure i like the word ideally in stead of something more firm that clearly shows that they have firm standards here. I have sent a follow up email and will hopefully be able to shed further light on this.


My Geophysic bought in December last was running +15 s/d. I sent it for adjustment as for that watch they're committed to -2+4s/d variation. Now it is back after a week and running +45s/d!! I'm sending it again through my AD. I don't know what is happening there lately having so many issues with the customers. ... I pray all gets well soon. It's after all a great brand. ... and much sought after one too...


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## Pun

Knisse said:


> probep said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post the screenshots of thier reply?
> 
> 
> 
> I would prefer not to. Their official email clearly indicate that it is confidential and i would like to, within limits, respect that.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your feelings but sharing here with fellow users of same company may not infringe that confidentiality. The company owe us an explanation and correction in their approach to products they make. Till few years ago perhaps there was no such grave complaints regarding the accuracy of their watches. JLC was renowned for their excellent movements. It was known as the Watchmakers' Watchmaker! ! Every major brand including Patek Philippe Vacheron Constantin Audemars Piguet etc used their movement in their top models. I feel sad if it has reached at this dismal level. They must do something asap. I hope they read and listen to these complaints and take immediate remedial steps to satisfy their customers.

I own an Omega Deville, an UN Marine chronometer, a Patek Philippe Calatrava, a Longines Conquest, a Longines Vintage Flagship and a Tag Huer Grand Carrera watches and all, I'm sure, all run within -2 to +3 seconds per day. Period


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## Knisse

Bhakt said:


> I appreciate your feelings but sharing here with fellow users of same company may not infringe that confidentiality. The company owe us an explanation and correction in their approach to products they make. Till few years ago perhaps there was no such grave complaints regarding the accuracy of their watches. JLC was renowned for their excellent movements. It was known as the Watchmakers' Watchmaker! ! Every major brand including Patek Philippe Vacheron Constantin Audemars Piguet etc used their movement in their top models. I feel sad if it has reached at this dismal level. They must do something asap. I hope they read and listen to these complaints and take immediate remedial steps to satisfy their customers.


I understand what you are saying, and i agree with the part that JLC is known exactly as the watchmaker's watchmaker and should have high standards, but i will not post the exact emails. I would not like it myself if someone posted emails i have written on the internet so i will refrain from doing so myself. Instead i will continue to sum up and comment on what is important.

In the second email i was told that that JLC do operate with standards of -4/+6 for brand new JLC watches, AND for watches serviced by their authorized service center (unless their watchmaker or technical specifications states otherwise).

I am a bit weary about the last part, doesnt that just render the first oh so great standard kind of obsolete in a lot of cases? Either you have general standards to follow or you do not, granted in a lot of service cases you might need spare parts etc but in my mind, after correct needed spare parts are bought you should always have some kind accuracy limit that should be optained. Or am I missing something here? Maybe i expect to much.


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## GrouchoM

All them about the delta, too. Delta=(fastest position) minus (slowest position). As I recall, the Deep Sea Chrono had a delta of 30s/d. So, the timepiece might have a perfect 6 position mean rate but a user that mostly has the watch crown down might experience +15s/d.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Knisse

GrouchoM said:


> All them about the delta, too. Delta=(fastest position) minus (slowest position). As I recall, the Deep Sea Chrono had a delta of 30s/d. So, the timepiece might have a perfect 6 position mean rate but a user that mostly has the watch crown down might experience +15s/d.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


To me you have just described a flawed timepiece that needs servicing, if we assume that regular normal use *of any kind* leads to inaccuracies. I want a watch that i can wear and appriciate and then put down like a normal person face up on my bookshelf and then pick up - wind up if needed - and use the next day and within a week it has only gone +/- 5 seconds slow or fast a day, simple as that. So far all my previously automatics has been able to deliver that task.

I must admit, if you are trying to explain/justify why expensive timepieces used by a bonus pater still manages to be highly inaccurate after very recent service then i am honestly sorry for wasting your time replying to your post and will attempt to avoid in the future, we have different definition of the word broken


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## GrouchoM

No. I no longer own any JLC watches nor, after my last more than 2 years of horrible experiences, intend to own another. I now wear a Blancpain Bathyscaphe Chronograph that averages about +1s/d with a 2-3s/d delta. My other timepieces (a few Omega's and a basic Seiko diver that I personally regulated) all run more consistently than my last JLC.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Pun

Knisse said:


> GrouchoM said:
> 
> 
> 
> All them about the delta, too. Delta=(fastest position) minus (slowest position). As I recall, the Deep Sea Chrono had a delta of 30s/d. So, the timepiece might have a perfect 6 position mean rate but a user that mostly has the watch crown down might experience +15s/d.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> To me you have just described a flawed timepiece that needs servicing, if we assume that regular normal use *of any kind* leads to inaccuracies. I want a watch that i can wear and appriciate and then put down like a normal person face up on my bookshelf and then pick up - wind up if needed - and use the next day and within a week it has only gone +/- 5 seconds slow or fast a day, simple as that. So far all my previously automatics has been able to deliver that task.
> 
> I must admit, if you are trying to explain/justify why expensive timepieces used by a bonus pater still manages to be highly inaccurate after very recent service then i am honestly sorry for wasting your time replying to your post and will attempt to avoid in the future, we have different definition of the word broken
Click to expand...

+1. Well said friend.


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## GrouchoM

I think JLC make some of the nicest looking watches in the world BUT I think they are having issues with the quality of their (1) watchmakers and (2) chain of command.


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## phunky_monkey

Chris Stark said:


> The watch companies are now doing what the airlines have been doing for years. If the flight is really 2 hours long, their official time for flight is stated as 2.5 hours long. So if it takes 2:25, 25 minutes long than usual, they list the flight as an on time arrival.
> 
> Pretty soon all watch companies will tell you that + or - a minute a day is ok and will refuse to accept returns or repairs on anything 59 seconds off one way or the other.
> 
> This will cover most of the issues that could occur to a watch once it's left the factory/store: Shipping, dropped, heat, cold, humidity, improper storage, water, etc.


Rife in the car industry too. Have you ever read what oil consumption is deemed within spec? It's ridiculous.


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## Addicted

IveBeenMoved said:


> Just wondering when was the last time that you've had either watch serviced and specifically regulated as part of that service, if at all. My RG MUT Moon is averaging ~8 sec fast per day over a two week span. My Rolex Explorer II is averaging ~ 6 sec fast per day, again over a two week period. Neither of these two watches have been serviced yet as they're both less than four years old.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


THe Daytona and JLC were purchased within a week of each other, in December 2015. Concern in all honesty.


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## dgkula

Bhakt said:


> Yesterday Rolex officially announced that its all movements starting 31xx shall confirm to -2+2 s/d accuracy standard. In fact their watches still perform within that range. JLC is any day a better and more sophisticated watchmaker. We expect better performance from them. My 7 months old RdM runs +8 second a day....


I have been thinking about getting a JLC as I do not have a dress watch. I bought my Rolex GMT Master II new in 1997 and it just came back from its first and only service and is running -2 sec/day. Not impressed with this thread so far considering the JLC price point ...


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## Light15

I think you must stand back when people say a particular timing for a watch. The resting performance and the on wrist performance. There is not one timing. My JLC Gran Sport is +22s per day, face up, +18s per day crown up, and +1.5s per day crown down, and +2.5s per day on the wrist. I have taken a number of timings to check the stability of the results. When people say their watch is +1 s per day, ask yourself, what are the resting results, how are they storing the watch overnight, what was the wrist performance and so on. Try to stand back.


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## dgkula

Ok, I can kind of agree to that. However, I care almost exclusively about the variance of my watch when compared to an atomic clock over a period of time when worn & used in what I consider a normal manner. Take my GMT Master II - I wear it every day, from when I wake up to when I go to bed. At night it rests crystal up on my dresser. Occasionally during the day I will take it off and set it next to my laptop on my desk if I am working on my computer for an extended period of time. So not terribly scientific, but absolutely useful conditions. Under these conditions, my watch appears to run about -2 sec/day. Here are the timings I have recorded since receiving the watch back from RUSA. So all in, as of yesterday evening at 8pm it was spot on atomic time set 20 days ago with a max deviation of -2 sec. This is a 19 year old watch services once this month. When I sent it in for servicing I did so as it was running +7 sec/month (I know, 19 years is too long to go without a service).

I just bought a used 18k JLC MC from a dealer and we spoke prior about accuracy and regulation. We agreed that a fair expectation of a watch at this price point was to run within COSC specs. He had prior owner's service receipts indicating that within the warranty period it had gone back to JLC to be regulated a few times. We both hope that the watch ended up being regulated properly. I will check it using a similar process. I hope it can keep time as it is a beautiful watch in 18k ... if not it will be going back and my search will continue.

4/10/2016 : 09:30:00 AM Rolex & Timex
4/12/2016 : 09:16:00 AM Rolex -0.5 sec
4/14/2016 : 07:09:00 AM Rolex -0.0 sec, seems to lose 1.5 to2.0 sec during the day and pick up same amount when left flat at night
4/16/2016 : 12:16:00 PM Rolex -1.0 sec
4/17/2016 : 07:10:00 AM Rolex +1.0 sec, didn't wear duringsoccer yesterday & left face up
4/17/2016 : 12:11:00 PM Rolex +0.5 sec
4/18/2016 : 11:10:00 AM Rolex -1.0 sec
4/19/2016 : 11:59:00 AM Rolex -0.5 sec
4/20/2016 : 10:47:00 AM Rolex -1.0 sec
4/22/2016 : 08:01:00 PM Rolex -2.0 sec 
4/23/2016 : 08:52:00 AM Rolex -1.0 sec
4/24/2016 : 07:49:00 AM Rolex -0.5 sec
4/25/2016 : 06:36:00 AM Rolex -0.0 sec
4/26/2016 : 06:14:00 AM Rolex -1.0 sec
4/27/2016 : 06:15:00 AM Rolex -0.0 sec
4/27/2016 : 05:10:00 PM Rolex -1.0 sec
4/28/2016 : 06:14:00 AM Rolex -0.0 sec
4/28/2016 : 06:36:00 PM Rolex -0.5 sec
4/29/2016 : 05:38:00 AM Rolex +0.5 sec
4/29/2016 : 08:13:00 PM Timex +0.0 sec


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## dgkula

Typo in that last entry - should read Rolex. Here is today's:
4/30/2016 : 06:16:00 AM Rolex -0.5 sec

So after 20 days of normal wear, -0.5 sec off atomic time. I'll take that any day of the week. Of course my Timex is more consistently accurate (i.e. no variation), and it's not like I need a watch this accurate but as I appreciate the mechanical nature of the movement, the ability to hold time like this impresses me and is a hallmark of quality engineering and design. Will post my experience with the JLC when it arrives on Monday.


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## Pun

I will be eager to know your experience with the new watch. Please keep me posted here with your results.


dgkula said:


> Typo in that last entry - should read Rolex. Here is today's:
> 4/30/2016 : 06:16:00 AM Rolex -0.5 sec
> 
> So after 20 days of normal wear, -0.5 sec off atomic time. I'll take that any day of the week. Of course my Timex is more consistently accurate (i.e. no variation), and it's not like I need a watch this accurate but as I appreciate the mechanical nature of the movement, the ability to hold time like this impresses me and is a hallmark of quality engineering and design. Will post my experience with the JLC when it arrives on Monday.


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## dgkula

Watch just arrived. It is gorgeous. Just synched it to my Timex Ironman Triathalon which was synched with the navy Mil clock this morning. Will post progress.


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## vip1985

Based on reviews of accuracy, I've acquired the JLC Geophysic True Second. No complaints so far, heck even the IWC hasn't been reset to accurate time in the past 6 months so I suppose even that is good too. Maybe I'm too much of a noob to understand time losses.. its a Jaeger-LeCoultre and I cannot be any happier. Its a "get-lost" watch and I'm enjoying its reputation to the fullest. Rest be damned.


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## dgkula

So not the most encouraging start for the JLC:

4/30/2016 : 06:16:00 AM Rolex -0.5 sec
4/30/2016 : 12:36:00 PM JLC & Timex synch
4/30/2016 : 03:55:00 PM JLC -1.0 sec; Rolex -0.0 sec
 8.5 hrsRolex +0.5 sec
 3.5 hrsJLC -1.0 sec 

we'll see how it is tomorrow.


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## dgkula

Here's where we are to date.

1997 Rolex GMT Master II, serviced first time earlier this month
2007 JLC MC, last serviced in 2011

4/30/2016 : 06:16:00 AM Rolex -0.5 sec
4/30/2016 : 12:36:00 PM JLC & Timex synch 
4/30/2016 : 03:55:00 PM JLC -1.0 sec; Rolex -0.0 sec
 8.5 hrsRolex +0.5 sec; wore Rolex at soccer from 1:30 - 3:45
 3.5 hrsJLC -1.0 sec; left JLC in dresser drawer with crown up during soccer
4/30/2016 : 09:16:00 PM JLC -1.5 sec; Rolex +1.0 sec
 3.5 hrsRolex +0.5 sec; in dresser drawer crystal up
 3.5 hrsJLC -0.5 sec; on wrist
5/1/2016 : 06:15:00 AM JLC +2 sec; Rolex +0.5 sec
 9 hrsRolex -0.5 sec; in dresser crown down
 9 hrsJLC +3.5 sec; in dresser crystal up

So since 12:36 PM yesterday when I received the watch from USPS, wound, set and wore the watch, it has picked up 2 sec in 18 hours. In 24 hours my Rolex has picked up 1 sec.
Of course I did choose their resting position when they were not being worn in order to regulate both of them a bit. So far so good.


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## dgkula

This post may be of interest:
http://www.watchprosite.com/?page=wf.forumpost&fi=2&ti=968393&pi=6753963

It reviews the 899 cal and states
"The problem is that it is extremely difficult, with this system, to achieve a fine, precise tuning of the movement, since you get variations of + / - 10 seconds."

So there may be a practical limit of accuracy based on the movement design.


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## dgkula

Almost 6 hours on the wrist and the JLC is +/- 0sec.


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## VicLeChic

I'm disappointed with what I'm reading about JLC's accuracy in this thread. I find it unacceptable. Such a shame considering how absolutely beautiful some of their pieces are. I am tempted by a Master Ultrathin 41, can anyone post some accuracy figures of this model?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## Light15

Vic. Don't get too worried this forum is still a small sample size, those that are happy may wish to keep quiet (the status quo), while those that are genuinely unhappy will vent their frustrations. In truth JLC know how to make watches and have been doing so for many years, but like all watch manufacturers they don't want to held hostage to those that will never be happy, to users that won't find a good resting position for overnight, read the instruction manual or damage the watch to get a full refund and do not understand sampling times over at least a couple of weeks, with different temperatures and day time usage. There will be a small number of problems with all watches, so you just have to judge the after sales service and the way the AD treats you from the outset?


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## Light15

Vic. Don't get too worried this forum is still a small sample size, those that are happy may wish to keep quiet (the status quo), while those that are genuinely unhappy will vent their frustrations. In truth JLC know how to make watches and have been doing so for many years, but like all watch manufacturers they don't want to held hostage to those that will never be happy, to users that won't find a good resting position for overnight, read the instruction manual or damage the watch to get a full refund and do not understand sampling times over at least a couple of weeks, with different temperatures and day time usage. There will be a small number of problems with all watches, so you just have to judge the after sales service and the way the AD treats you from the outset?
:roll:


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## dgkula

Still on wrist. Almost 12 hours on the wrist and the JLC is +/- 0sec. Only time so far that it had a deviation was last night when it laid crystal up for 9 hours and picked up 3.5 sec.


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## dgkula

Taking the JLC off and placing it in my dresser crystal up. in 15 hours it is +/- 0 sec which is pretty darn excellent. It picked up 2 sec last night so will store crown down tonight.
My GMT Master has been sitting in my dresser crystal up all day and it has gained 1.5 sec in 15 hours. Also excellent. Will be storing crown down tonight to regulate.

After having read this thread and many others in this forum, I am pleasantly surprised with the accuracy of the JLC. And it is a stunning watch.


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## dgkula

JLC was overnight in my dresser crown down and picked up +0.5 sec in 9 hours. So total deviation under normal wear conditions since the watch arrived on 4/30/2016at 12:36:00 PM is +2.5 sec with it being about +/- 0 on wrist and gaining/losing small amounts of time overnight depending on resting position. So far this watch is meeting my expectations.


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## Pun

Light15 said:


> Vic. Don't get too worried this forum is still a small sample size, those that are happy may wish to keep quiet (the status quo), while those that are genuinely unhappy will vent their frustrations. In truth JLC know how to make watches and have been doing so for many years, but like all watch manufacturers they don't want to held hostage to those that will never be happy, to users that won't find a good resting position for overnight, read the instruction manual or damage the watch to get a full refund and do not understand sampling times over at least a couple of weeks, with different temperatures and day time usage. There will be a small number of problems with all watches, so you just have to judge the after sales service and the way the AD treats you from the outset?


I feel sorry for your post. It's written perhaps in a bad taste. It is more damaging to the brand you purportedly tried to defend. There are so many threads on many blogs complaining the service standards of Jaeger-LeCoultre and Richemont group in general that you can't wish them away as some disgruntled people having ulterior motives etc. It's high time the company rise to the occasion and satisfy it's esteemed customers who bought their premium watches expecting the best quality. Period.


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## Mirabello1

There's even a Watchtime magazine article on the JLC navy seals watch that talks about the issues with accuracy on the 899 movement. .

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## GrouchoM

Mirabello1 said:


> There's even a Watchtime magazine article on the JLC navy seals watch that talks about the issues with accuracy on the 899 movement. .
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I wish accuracy were the only issue that the current JLC watchmakers were failing to fix. I've already posted about my nearly 2 year JLC odyssey (My watch took 2 trips to Europe, was completely replaced and then it's movement was replaced and yet they couldn't get my (ex) Deep Sea Chrono to function appropriately.) Additionally, their management/communication is horrible; only their customer service reps are of any value.


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## dgkula

On a positive note, the JLC MC has been on my wrist since 7am and has lost 0.5 sec in 7.5 hours.


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## dgkula

Call me impressed. 12.5 hours on wrist and +/- 0 seconds today. I wonder if the original delta was a function of the watch not having been completely wound.
As of right now it is +2 sec from 4/30/2016at 12:36:00 PM but for the past 2 days it has picked up +/- 0 on wrist and gained/lost time when resting crystal up/crown down in my dresser at night.
I know there are some other experiences on this forum, but this Master Control is keeping excellent time so far. And it is stunning in 18k rose gold.


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## Pun

dgkula said:


> Call me impressed. 12.5 hours on wrist and +/- 0 seconds today. I wonder if the original delta was a function of the watch not having been completely wound.
> As of right now it is +2 sec from 4/30/2016at 12:36:00 PM but for the past 2 days it has picked up +/- 0 on wrist and gained/lost time when resting crystal up/crown down in my dresser at night.
> I know there are some other experiences on this forum, but this Master Control is keeping excellent time so far. And it is stunning in 18k rose gold.


Frankly I'm not surprised at all. I know this brand can easily do that. They are doing this and much more since many many decades with aplomb. They supplied movements to all major brands for decades that are still known for their accuracy and robustness. My only grouse is that for last few years they don't seem to pay attention to what they deliver and how they interact with customers. Yes they still can solve all issues with their customers and watches if they really want to. I'm happy that your watch is doing what a Jaeger-LeCoultre watch must do. Please enjoy wearing it. I hope all other friends of JLC watches get the same results soon.


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## GrouchoM

Bhakt said:


> Yes they still can solve all issues with their customers and watches if they really want to


Um...no.


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## Monad

GrouchoM said:


> Um...no.


To be fair, I don't think anyone is doubting JLC watchmakers have technical skill ... the key question is if they've made a business decision not to solve people's problems ...


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## GrouchoM

Based on my experience, their watchmakers could not properly fix their 758 movement. Just because these watchmakers work at JLC doesn't mean they are the best of the best. Maybe it would have several decades ago. ... Remember, there is still a shortage of superb watchmakers. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## dgkula

8 hours on the wrist, +/- 0 sec. Really accurate watch.


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## dgkula

12 hours on wrist and +/- 0.0 sec. Now I must confess that I bought this watch used or "pre-owned" (such a high-falutin term) and I have the prior owner's service history which was sufficient cause for concern that I have been timing the watch. He bought the watch in Oct 2007 and it was back at the authorized repair center by December of that year with a claim of accuracy issues "picking up 12 sec/day" on the service receipt. Next service receipts are for 2010 (again serviced for accuracy issues) and finally in 2011 where the service receipt states that it had been in every year since purchased for accuracy issues and it "Needed to be fixed!!!" The owner was a prominent member of the legal profession in the metro-PA area and it would appear that they definitely fixed this watch, which he traded earlier in 2016 against a rolex sky dweller. I cant match the existing serial number against any number on the service receipts or on the SKU sticker on the box, making me wonder if they gave him a new watch at the time. The ser # does match what was handwritten in the warranty card but that states that the watch was bought in 2008 where I have the original purchase receipt from 2007, looking like the warranty card was completed years following the purchase. So the prior owner of this watch suffered from accuracy issues. JLC or the AD made it right and I now have a very, very accurate and stunning 18k MC. Good luck to all. I am horrified by these stories but am knocking on wood myself - with any luck next Tuesday it will start gaining 26 sec per day and will be off for a service ... Yikes!!


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## hebhsteve

Wife's Rendezvous Night and Day has been right +20s per day, seems a little high to me. My sub runs +1.5 constantly...


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## dgkula

This site (http://www.watchprosite.com/?page=wf.forumpost&fi=2&ti=773798&pi=5155238) suggests that "The acceptable accuracy is depending on the level of complication of the watch, from -1 + 6 to - 8 + 14 seconds per day. In the case of the Master Control, the watch has to reach the accuracy of - 1 to + 6 seconds per day, which is more demanding than the COSC specifications."


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## IveBeenMoved

dgkula said:


> 8 hours on the wrist, +/- 0 sec. Really accurate watch.


That's an excellent result including the other stats you've been posting dgkula.

Personally, I'm not too bothered if a mechanical watch's accuracy swung by as much as +/- 10s a day. Obviously my preference is for less, but hey these are mechanical watches, not atomic time pieces. I pull out my atomic radio sync'd Casio Edifice for that, or I just use the clock on my iPhone/iPad that are NTP sync'd.

Having said that when in recent times I've rotated to my IWC Fliegerchrono, a humble Valjoux 7750, that watch has been running +/- 0 sec accuracy. The Fliegerchrono used to consistently run at +6 or +7 seconds per day over a year ago. Now it is dead on through a month of daily wear on the wrist, and I have done nothing to the watch in between. I rest it dial facing up at night. That really surprised me.


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## GrouchoM

IveBeenMoved said:


> That's an excellent result including the other stats you've been posting dgkula.
> 
> Personally, I'm not too bothered if a mechanical watch's accuracy swung by as much as +/- 10s a day. Obviously my preference is for less, but hey these are mechanical watches, not atomic time pieces. I pull out my atomic radio sync'd Casio Edifice for that, or I just use the clock on my iPhone/iPad that are NTP sync'd.
> 
> Having said that when in recent times I've rotated to my IWC Fliegerchrono, a humble Valjoux 7750, that watch has been running +/- 0 sec accuracy. The Fliegerchrono used to consistently run at +6 or +7 seconds per day over a year ago. Now it is dead on through a month of daily wear on the wrist, and I have done nothing to the watch in between. I rest it dial facing up at night. That really surprised me.


7750s can be regulated and adjusted to remarkable accuracy.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## H2Ito

Mirabello1 said:


> Wow, I have always heard not so great things about the accuracy of JLC movements, but these posts do not sound good
> . Maybe JLC should put a solid workhorse like a 2824-2 or a 2892-2 in their watches, which in my personal experience have always kept very good time, much better than the reports here and other places I've read..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Agree! I purchased the 2016 SIHH JLC Reverso Duoface Tribute, I own a handful of Rolexes, all of them hold to their COSC (Pre-2012 COSC standards).... the oldest being 35 years old! My Reverso is a manual wind,... I wasn't sure of it's accuracy, I called JLC (Switzerland)... the service representative gave me the (all above) standard answer... 12-20 seconds per day, post sale, is within acceptable. 
Know that ETA makes several "levels" of ebauches... the top being "chronometer grade". My opinion is that the average ETA movement is "medium" and is close to 12-20 +/- seconds per day. Two options would be to have a good watch technician could utilize the top grade 2892, if it physically fits... and voila... chronometer.... OR, it's theoretically possible to have an average grade ETA ebauche bench regulated to hold chronometer standards.... but it's like having an average left-handed MLB pitcher pitch to Sandy Koufax stats, but not "in game", or hold to the standards, six positions, etc.... best answer is that if accuracy is of top value... I'd much rather buy a Rolex (personal experience, etc..) To get JLC to hold to a post 1000 hour test, release into the "real world" isn't going to happen.... please advise comment, I'd like to hear from others on this. Few watch companies, even PP, AP, VC... don't put "chronometer" on their dials!!!


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## bevis

This is an old thread which has resurfaced!
For others who may come here and might fear for the quality of the JLC movements, I'd like to say that the various JLC watches I own or used to own have all run in the +-1 to +-2 s/day range when worn, with the sole exception of the MUT moon phase, which currently post service does +6s/d worn, but in the past has been much worse (it also varies wildly depending on the orientation it is left in).


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## Paulsky

My DuoFace has been running at under +1/day since I got it two months ago.


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## Michael5959

My JLC Hometime is -3sec/day.
Mike


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## trebor2

I'm interested in the accuracy of the new Master Control Date. Possible purchase!


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## 8past10

I do not own the newest version of the Master Control Date, but my version, the 39mm, runs consistently +4 seconds per day.


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## bigie35

JLC MC GMT -1/+.5 a day. it does get magnetized every once in a while


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## cerulean_depths

My 2020 master control chrono cal runs +1 sec/ day after 2 months.


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## GSNewbie

It is astonishing and embarrassing for JLC that they are apparently not willing, or able, to communicate what precision you as a customer can expect from their manufacture movements.
What is the use of 1000 hours of test babble, if you don‘t get reliable data from JLC?
I had also tried several times in recent months in vain to get information directly from this customer service - no answer!
Then I tried with the help of a very good JLC concessionaire - he also received no direct answer, only that there is no information on this.
Obviously, there is no need to give appropriate information here.
Tomorrow I'll look at the Mariner Date, so I'll raise the issue again here with another concessionaire and have the watch put on the time scale before I‘ll buy it.
If there are no plausible, competitive values here, as well as no information about this watch with a new movement, then I will turn my back on this manufacture.


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## trebor2

I did contact JLC to ask what accuracy I should expect from the Master Control Date. Just received a vague reply telling me how excellent their movements are!


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## mario1971

I received this answer about the cal 822 in my Reverso 1931:

_Dear Mr. ...,

Thank you for your message and your interest in Jaeger-LeCoultre.

Hope you are doing well and sorry your watch may gain seconds.

As a watchmaking enthusiast, we understand your knowledge of the extraordinary achievements of Jaeger-LeCoultre watches. Thank you for your special interest in the precision of our mechanical models, both hand-wound and automatic.

It was Antoine LeCoultre who in 1844 invented the most accurate measuring instrument in the world, the Millionomètre. Capable of measuring the micron for the first time, this revolutionary invention has pushed the boundaries of accuracy and reliability.

The accuracy of the mechanical models depends on the weight. Depending on the model, it performs 21,600 or 28,800 vibrations per hour. The timer should be within +8 seconds per day and should not be up to +30.

Despite all the care our master watchmakers at Jaeger-LeCoultre apply to the construction and assembly of a watch, its accuracy can be affected by gravity, magnetic fields, impact and oil degradation. It is measured by the regularity of its operation in various positions.

The nature of your activities and temperament can be the cause of minor abnormalities. If you notice a sudden distinct change in performance, we advise you to entrust your Jaeger-LeCoultre boutique or an approved jeweler to make the necessary adjustments.

Ever since the invention of the Millionomètre, Grande Maison has continuously improved the performance of its watches. Complicated production of the calibers and the implementation of a rigorous 1000-hour test program are therefore the benchmarks in this uninterrupted 180-year quest for accuracy.

Due to the problem of not being able to register the watch online, could you please share some details with me? Are you getting any particular error message you're encountering?

I hope this information finds you well and if there is anything else we can do for you please let us know.

Have a nice day.

Sincerely,_


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## AnonPi

mario1971 said:


> _The accuracy of the mechanical models depends on the weight._


Something must have been lost in translation here.


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## Stewpot

2018 Polaris Date that I picked up has been running pretty consistently at -1 to -1.5 per day over a week. (face up when I'm sleeping).

By comparison:

2020 DateJust 36 ran at a solid +2 sec per day. Resting position seemed to make no difference.
2018 Explorer (214270) was a little more inconsistent and fluctuated between -2 and -1 sec per day.
2012 Lange 1815 (36mm) ran at around +4 to +5 sec per day. But leaving it crown down at night brought it back down to about +1 overall.
2019 Omega AT (8900 movement) consistently +0.5 sec per day no matter which resting position.


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## spidaman

When I picked up my MUT Moon from the AD in January 2017, I asked what sort of accuracy I should expect, and when I should bring it back. She told me to bring it back if it was outside -4/+6 spd--basically COSC range.

It has been running a consistent -2 spd, although it spends most of the time on a winder.

My Omega Aqua Terra 8500 runs a consistent + 2 spd--it is the watch I wear most.

My Tudor Pelagos with the MT5612 movement runs + 1 spd--also spends most time on winder.

Cheers!


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