# buying a mont blanc 149 .. question



## joxxer

Found it for $648 new from itmustbetime.com .. anyone know anything about this place ?

here is a direct link .. it doesnt say 149 but it says mont blanc 10575 .. which i believe is the 149?

Montblanc Fountain Pen 10575

is this place legit >?


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## joxxer

Nevermind they aren't an authorized dealer


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## hoppes-no9

MB 149s don't hold their value well. They frequently appear for sale, used but in like-new condition, at around $350-$400 on fountain pen network.


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## Therightadvisor

hoppes-no9 said:


> MB 149s don't hold their value well. They frequently appear for sale, used but in like-new condition, at around $350-$400 on fountain pen network.


There is certainly some truth to what you're saying, but I'd like to elaborate on this a bit more. The luxury pen market is very similar to the luxury car market. The retail price is astronomical compared to the used market.

Pen buyers are finicky people. Many people have an artificial fear that used pens are somehow inferior. While it's certainly true that pens can easily be abused, you simply have to understand the new/used market and know who and where to buy from. Most people don't which is why there is such a wide range of prices between current retail and current used.

149s can easily be had for under $400. I've purchased several for under $200 from people that didn't know what they had.

With that said, there is a huge difference in price between buying a modern 149 with box and papers from an authorized retailer and buying just the pen by itself on ebay. Montblanc has rapidly increased their prices over the past 20 years. Back in the late 80s, the price was around $425 (I have one with the sticker still on it). Last year they retailed for $845 (if my memory serves me correctly). Currently, they retail for $915 (an 8%+ price increase in one year).


It's not terribly hard to get as much as 20% off retail from an authorized retailer. You may need to make friends with your local boutique, but it can and certainly has been done. They can't advertise below retail, but they certainly can sell below retail.
You can buy a brand new modern 149 from an unauthorized retailer for around $700 if you search a bit
If you hunt around you can find a new old stock pen for under $500 (I bought one of mine for $325 brand new in the box)
If you don't mind buying used, you can find them all day for $350-400 like you mentioned or much much less if you're good at locating good deals.

Essentially, the pen itself holds its value very well. However, people pay a serious premium for the 1 year warranty when buying retail. 
People don't realize that you can buy a used 149 and send it in to Montblanc to have it serviced for $80-100. Aside from the original clip and nib, there is a high likelihood that the rest of the pen will be returned brand new. That also includes a 1-year warranty.

You have a choice to pay the $915 retail and have a brand new "unmolested" pen. Or buy a used (or even broken) 149 for under $300, spend the $80-100 to have it services and have $400 into a near new 149.

My personal experience: I have five 149 pens. My most expensive one cost $325 (purchased brand new in the box), three were purchased for $200 or less. The fifth I purchased for $100 with a broken piston stem and will cost $80 to be serviced.

After I have the last one serviced I'll have less than $1000 into five 149s that work just like they did the day they were new. I'm comfortable buying used because I know what to look for.


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## joxxer

Therightadvisor said:


> There is certainly some truth to what you're saying, but I'd like to elaborate on this a bit more. The luxury pen market is very similar to the luxury car market. The retail price is astronomical compared to the used market.
> 
> Pen buyers are finicky people. Many people have an artificial fear that used pens are somehow inferior. While it's certainly true that pens can easily be abused, you simply have to understand the new/used market and know who and where to buy from. Most people don't which is why there is such a wide range of prices between current retail and current used.
> 
> 149s can easily be had for under $400. I've purchased several for under $200 from people that didn't know what they had.
> 
> With that said, there is a huge difference in price between buying a modern 149 with box and papers from an authorized retailer and buying just the pen by itself on ebay. Montblanc has rapidly increased their prices over the past 20 years. Back in the late 80s, the price was around $425 (I have one with the sticker still on it). Last year they retailed for $845 (if my memory serves me correctly). Currently, they retail for $915 (an 8%+ price increase in one year).
> 
> 
> It's not terribly hard to get as much as 20% off retail from an authorized retailer. You may need to make friends with your local boutique, but it can and certainly has been done. They can't advertise below retail, but they certainly can sell below retail.
> You can buy a brand new modern 149 from an unauthorized retailer for around $700 if you search a bit
> If you hunt around you can find a new old stock pen for under $500 (I bought one of mine for $325 brand new in the box)
> If you don't mind buying used, you can find them all day for $350-400 like you mentioned or much much less if you're good at locating good deals.
> 
> Essentially, the pen itself holds its value very well. However, people pay a serious premium for the 1 year warranty when buying retail.
> People don't realize that you can buy a used 149 and send it in to Montblanc to have it serviced for $80-100. Aside from the original clip and nib, there is a high likelihood that the rest of the pen will be returned brand new. That also includes a 1-year warranty.
> 
> You have a choice to pay the $915 retail and have a brand new "unmolested" pen. Or buy a used (or even broken) 149 for under $300, spend the $80-100 to have it services and have $400 into a near new 149.
> 
> My personal experience: I have five 149 pens. My most expensive one cost $325 (purchased brand new in the box), three were purchased for $200 or less. The fifth I purchased for $100 with a broken piston stem and will cost $80 to be serviced.
> 
> After I have the last one serviced I'll have less than $1000 into five 149s that work just like they did the day they were new. I'm comfortable buying used because I know what to look for.


thanks a lot for the info. I dont really know what to look for on used pens. So buying from an non authorized seller is fine ? I am always worried about fakes.


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## collectingfool

Therightadvisor said:


> While it's certainly true that pens can easily be abused, you simply have to understand the new/used market and know who and where to buy from. Most people don't which is why there is such a wide range of prices between current retail and current used.


I agree 100%. I would like to ask a question though, what part of the country do you live in? I'm in the NYC area and have been doing flea markets, antiques shows and estate sales for years and I don't remember ever seeing a deal like you've mentioned. Just wondering if I'm doing something wrong or if I'm in the wrong part of the country for that. I wouldn't mind picking up a 149 myself.


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## Monocrom

Another aspect is that it's true that when you use a fountain pen, over time it conforms to your writing style; and basically to you. That's another reason why used prices are what they are. Yeah, pen collectors tend to be very particular. Far more so than watch buyers. (When it comes to used pieces.)


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## Therightadvisor

collectingfool said:


> I agree 100%. I would like to ask a question though, what part of the country do you live in? I'm in the NYC area and have been doing flea markets, antiques shows and estate sales for years and I don't remember ever seeing a deal like you've mentioned. Just wondering if I'm doing something wrong or if I'm in the wrong part of the country for that. I wouldn't mind picking up a 149 myself.


I live in Austin, TX. Before that, I lived in Lawton, OK for almost 6 years.

And you don't necessarily have to find these kinds of deals at estate sales or in person. A few I've found through ebay:

1.) Montblanc 100th Anniversary Fountain Pen Brand New- $46 on ebay. Sold 2 weeks later for $770
2.) Montblanc 164 Classique Ballpoint- $18 on ebay. The seller had it listed as an "Eddie Bauer" pen.
3.) Montblanc 164 Sterling Silver Hematite- $100 shipped. Brand new seller with 0% feedback, but we talked on the phone before I paid and they happened to be a doctor
4.) Two Montblanc 149 Fountain Pens- $260 shipped. I had bought another pen from them in the past. He was cleaning out a house and found these two pens and offered to sell them to me for $260 shipped.

The key with this kind of stuff is to ALWAYS be looking. It's a quantity game. 
1.) I had the Ebay app on my phone and check it at least 100 times a day.
2.) I go to estate sales and always leave my name with the people asking them to call me if they find any pens.
3.) After I pay for an item on ebay, I'll ask them if they have any other pens they plan to sell. That saves them from having to pay the 10% ebay fee, but it also saves me from having to bid on it at auction.

I certainly don't do this for a living, but I do enjoy the "hunt." I'm at the point now where I get contacted once every week or so by previous buyers/sellers asking for certain pens, or wanting to sell others. I suppose that's the product of good business practices, but it's the easiest way to get amazing deals, plus you have more people looking for you.


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## collectingfool

You've certainly have had some wonderful results. I suppose I suffer from having too wide a range of things I collect. If I dedicated that much time to just pens my other collecting interests would suffer. Guess there just aren't enough hours in the day for people with our particular mental illness!


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## Therightadvisor

Monocrom said:


> Another aspect is that it's true that when you use a fountain pen, over time it conforms to your writing style; and basically to you. That's another reason why used prices are what they are. Yeah, pen collectors tend to be very particular. Far more so than watch buyers. (When it comes to used pieces.)


I don't disagree especially when it come to new pens. However, most big collectors eventually migrate towards vintage Montblanc pens. Their nibs are tremendously different and the ones I've owned in the past are truly a joy to write with. A good used celluloid 149 with silver rings will easily bring $1500. Very rarely do you ever find an unused vintage Montblanc pen, but if you were to ever find a new celluloid 149 I would guess that it could easily bring over $3000 (if not as much as $5000).

The Montblanc Hemingway is another pen that will easily sell for $2000+ in used condition. Back in 1992 I believe they sold for around $725. In new condition with the box it's not uncommon for them to bring over $3000. That's a 7%/year price appreciation over 21 years.



joxxer said:


> thanks a lot for the info. I dont really know what to look for on used pens. So buying from an non authorized seller is fine ? I am always worried about fakes.


Don't buy from just any un-authorized seller, but there are plenty out there that run legitimate businesses. PensinAsia and Zeaggars are two international sellers that aren't authorized Montblanc retailers but run very legitimate and respected businesses.

If you can find me a good replica 149 I will buy it from you at the Montblanc retail price! I'm not even kidding when I say that. There are no known replicas/fakes of the 149. It's simply not cost effective to produce a piston filler for a counterfeiter. You can spend $2 replicating a 163 rollerball or spend at least $20 replicating a 149. The 163 rollerball could technically be made in 4 parts (cap, barrel, section, and rollerball refill) and is easily marketable to the non-pen collector.

On a 149 you're talking about having to replicate the full piston mechanism, feed, section, barrel, cap, and the clear ink window. Plus, the 149 is more marketed towards the collector so it would need to be extremely precise.

Knowing the difference between the different Montblanc models is a great start:
*Most commonly faked pens:*
163 classique rollerball- easiest pen to fake. The best fakes are usually 163 rollerballs 
164 classique ballpoint- most commonly faked pen, but the mechanism is tough to repicate
144 classique fountain pen- harder to fake, but there are some excellent replicas out there
145 classique fountain pen- harder to fake, but there are some excellent replicas
Starwalker rollerball/fineliner- Very commonly replicated. Not terribly hard to fake, and the average buyer might not know what to look for.
Starwalker ballpoint- very commonly replicated. Harder to fake than the rollerball, but the average buyer might not know what to look for.

*Less commonly faked pens:*
Solitaire 163/164/144- I've seen some very good fakes that even have a serial number and the sterling silver hallmark (Ag 925 or 925)
114 Mozart- I've only seen a few fakes. Tougher to replicate
Writer's edition pens (I have a fake Greta Garbo ballpoint in a drawer somewhere). Most of the fakes are very bad.
165 classique mechanical pencil. I haven't seen very many fakes, but they do exist. 
147 Le Grand Traveler- The fakes are usually extremely poor. The cartridge holder is very tough to replicate
161 Le Grand Ballpoint- Fakes exist, but are much less common
162 Le Grand Rollerball- Fake exist but are fairly uncommon

*Pens I have never seen replicated/faked:*
146 fountain pen- I've seen only two fakes and both were so terrible even a new collector could tell the difference
149 fountain pen- I've never seen a fake, and there are no known replicas in existence.


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## Monocrom

Therightadvisor said:


> I don't disagree especially when it come to new pens. However, most big collectors eventually migrate towards vintage Montblanc pens. Their nibs are tremendously different and the ones I've owned in the past are truly a joy to write with. A good used celluloid 149 with silver rings will easily bring $1500. Very rarely do you ever find an unused vintage Montblanc pen, but if you were to ever find a new celluloid 149 I would guess that it could easily bring over $3000 (if not as much as $5000).
> 
> The Montblanc Hemingway is another pen that will easily sell for $2000+ in used condition. Back in 1992 I believe they sold for around $725. In new condition with the box it's not uncommon for them to bring over $3000. That's a 7%/year price appreciation over 21 years.


I have a couple of friends who bought up several examples of MB's 75th Anniversary Solitaire model back when those were available. Several each. They're holding onto them as investments. I told them to concentrate on MB's yearly Limited Editions instead. If I was wasn't currently so much into watches, I'd take my own advice.


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## joxxer

So I ended up purchasing a new one but I am thinking I am going to return it. After reading this thread I guess it was really a stupid move. I am not a collector. Just wanted a nice fountain pen.


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## Monocrom

joxxer said:


> So I ended up purchasing a new one but I am thinking I am going to return it. After reading this thread I guess it was really a stupid move. I am not a collector. Just wanted a nice fountain pen.


Well ... That's what you have.

It's not my cup of tea, but I've used a 149 in the past. Some guys prefer a thick but light-weight pen. I can see why. Still, if you're not enjoying it; no need to keep it around.


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## Therightadvisor

Monocrom said:


> I have a couple of friends who bought up several examples of MB's 75th Anniversary Solitaire model back when those were available. Several each. They're holding onto them as investments. I told them to concentrate on MB's yearly Limited Editions instead. If I was wasn't currently so much into watches, I'd take my own advice.


The advantage with pens is that many people don't realize how much some can be worth. Most people know that watches can get very expensive so you don't find as much "outstanding" deals.

As a result there is a much tighter range of prices for watches (condition being the same) compared to pens.



joxxer said:


> So I ended up purchasing a new one but I am thinking I am going to return it. After reading this thread I guess it was really a stupid move. I am not a collector. Just wanted a nice fountain pen.


It's not a stupid move at all. I can afford to take the chance on a used fountain pen because I know what to look for and I can also do basic restorations on pens. That came after spending hours learning and through the experience of buying literally hundreds of pens.

EDIT- If you do for some reason decide to return the pen. I'd consider selling one of my 149s if you're interested.


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## Monocrom

Therightadvisor said:


> The advantage with pens is that many people don't realize how much some can be worth. Most people know that watches can get very expensive so you don't find as much "outstanding" deals.
> 
> As a result there is a much tighter range of prices for watches (condition being the same) compared to pens.


Generally true. However, everyone "knows" Montblanc just as everyone "knows" Rolex. Still, it is rather surprising that MBs can be found at rather good deals. Whereas most used Rolex models, aren't.


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## Therightadvisor

Monocrom said:


> Generally true. However, everyone "knows" Montblanc just as everyone "knows" Rolex. Still, it is rather surprising that MBs can be found at rather good deals. Whereas most used Rolex models, aren't.


Admittedly, less than two years ago I had never heard of Montblanc. Now I own more than 30 of them. I used to laugh at my uncle for collecting pens. I never understood why people would spend so much on one. Now I'm even more guilty.

I accidentally came into this hobby after buying a Parker 51 Demi at an estate sale for $1. My interest grew exponentially and now my collection is worth almost as much as my BMW.


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## Snoweagle

I only have a simple Meisterstück LeGrand Platinum ballpoint which is my very first MB bought exactly a year ago. Ever since owning and using one (which I have dreamt for so long), it's exquisite handling, design and class is really one-of-a-kind and really glad to have bought it. I even sent it in to have it engraved with my name and the year it was bought to commemorate year of purchase.

Guess it'll be my only MB for now. :-!


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## Monocrom

Therightadvisor said:


> Admittedly, less than two years ago I had never heard of Montblanc. Now I own more than 30 of them. I used to laugh at my uncle for collecting pens. I never understood why people would spend so much on one. Now I'm even more guilty.
> 
> I accidentally came into this hobby after buying a Parker 51 Demi at an estate sale for $1. My interest grew exponentially and now my collection is worth almost as much as my BMW.


Sometimes the pen-bug takes a tiny nip, sometimes it bites down *hard.*

It's unfortunate that there are those out there who will never know or can't appreciate a beautifully crafted pen that writes silky smooth.


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## Mike_Dowling

The 149 is big, it's huge, you'll be hard pressed to find the opportunity to use it often. If I'm paying $800 for a pen I don't want to use it every five years for signing legal documents. You can't really use it at work, it looks almost comical how large it is.

If you can return it, return it, you can find about 100 used barely five times for less than half the price if it's a must have, no way I would buy one new.

If you want a great fountain pen, get a Pelikan M800 medium nib, or even cheaper a Lamy 2000 in medium.


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## Therightadvisor

Mike_Dowling said:


> The 149 is big, it's huge, you'll be hard pressed to find the opportunity to use it often. If I'm paying $800 for a pen I don't want to use it every five years for signing legal documents. You can't really use it at work, it looks almost comical how large it is.
> 
> If you can return it, return it, you can find about 100 used barely five times for less than half the price if it's a must have, no way I would buy one new.
> 
> If you want a great fountain pen, get a Pelikan M800 medium nib, or even cheaper a Lamy 2000 in medium.


I think you're comparing apples to oranges. The M800 is a great pen, I certainly agree, but it is comparable in size to the Montblanc 146. The Pelikan M1000 is nearly the same size as the 149 which would be a better comparison.

Pelikan M1000- Montblanc 149
Pelikan M800- Montblanc 146

I would actually agree that Pelikans consistently are better writers. However, there is something to be said for the brand recognition of Montblanc. Montblanc can charge their premium because of the demand. Is it the best writer for the price? Probably not, but that's only one aspect of the pen itself. The premium arises from owning a luxury item that is well known and in high demand. Mention "Montblanc" to a bunch of executives and I guarantee they've heard of it. Mention "Pelikan" to the same bunch and only a fraction may have heard the name. Does that matter to you? No, but it does matter to some people.

Why do people buy a BMW 750i when a Hyundai Genesis R-Spec is just as good of a car, but at half the price? Why do people spend $200 on a pair of jeans when a pair of $30 Wranglers will last longer? Why do people buy Breitling watches when Hamilton puts the same movements in theirs but at 1/3[SUP]rd[/SUP] the price? Why buy a diamond ring for your wife, when 99% of people can't tell the difference from a manufactured diamond or even cubic zirconium?

"Cost is only an issue in the absence of value." Everyone defines value differently. In addition, you pay a premium based on supply and demand. Montblanc may not be the best value for the price speaking strictly from a writing experience, but they have value beyond that.

These are luxury items. If functionality was the only importance, we'd all be carrying around Parker 51s.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong or that your opinion is invalid, but everyone has different tastes. It's why I prefer Montblanc and you prefer Pelikan. I can easily justify my collection just like I'm sure you can justify yours.


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## Mike_Dowling

Therightadvisor said:


> I think you're comparing apples to oranges. The M800 is a great pen, I certainly agree, but it is comparable in size to the Montblanc 146. The Pelikan M1000 is nearly the same size as the 149 which would be a better comparison.
> 
> Pelikan M1000- Montblanc 149
> Pelikan M800- Montblanc 146


That was the point of my post, the MB 149 is ridiculously large and not practical at all, go with a smaller pen like the Pelikan M800.


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## D N Ravenna

Mike_Dowling said:


> The 149 is big, it's huge, you'll be hard pressed to find the opportunity to use it often. If I'm paying $800 for a pen I don't want to use it every five years for signing legal documents. You can't really use it at work, it looks almost comical how large it is.
> 
> If you can return it, return it, you can find about 100 used barely five times for less than half the price if it's a must have, no way I would buy one new.
> 
> If you want a great fountain pen, get a Pelikan M800 medium nib, or even cheaper a Lamy 2000 in medium.


Please keep in mind that some of us prefer a "fat" fountain pen for everyday writing. The good Lord knows I have plenty of thin ones that I prefer less, and none of my Pelikans are used regularly.

YMMV,

Dan


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## Monocrom

Therightadvisor said:


> ... Again, I'm not saying you're wrong or that your opinion is invalid, but everyone has different tastes. It's why I prefer Montblanc and you prefer Pelikan. I can easily justify my collection just like I'm sure you can justify yours.


You were doing well, until you got to the comparison between a real diamond vs. a cubic zercon. It would be like saying, why buy a real MB Solitaire when 99% of folks out there can't tell the difference between a real and a fake one. Also, if one enjoys a pen than that's all the justification needed. Having sold both brands, I prefer Pelkian for the very fact that practically no one but a very tiny percentage of folks have ever even heard of the brand. Pelikan is one of those rare companies that is small, and actually prefers to stay that way so they can uphold their high standards. When I use my Pelikan 800M out in public, no one recognizes it. No one stares at it (or me). No one walks up and says anything to me about it. I like that.

Best part is, if anyone ever did, I immediately know I'm dealing with another enthusiast / collector. So, I can look forward to a pleasant exchange. The "Normies" just walk on by. And that's the way I like it.

Sure, plenty of folks buy a pen or a watch or a car because of it's status symbol factor _*and*_ quality. Unfortunately, FAR more individuals buy those items solely for the status symbol factor. No surprise that there are guys who buy modern-day real Rolex watches without having a single clue that there's no battery inside to change if the watch stops. Problem is, if you're a pen, or watch, or car enthusiast; you end up being lumped in with every pretentious ass who has zero actual appreciation for a Limited Edition MB, a Rolex Submariner, or a BMW M3. They just buy them only to show off. Yes, such "recognized" status symbols hold their value better than a Pelikan, a Damasko, or a Lotus. But if you're an enthusiast, you only need to justify your choices to yourself.


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## Mike_Dowling

D N Ravenna said:


> Please keep in mind that some of us prefer a "fat" fountain pen for everyday writing. The good Lord knows I have plenty of thin ones that I prefer less, and none of my Pelikans are used regularly.
> 
> YMMV,
> 
> Dan


I like a fat pen too, it's why I would go with the MB 146 or Pelikan M800. For the OP if he wants a usable pen as a daily writer that won't invite the stares of everyone within 100 meters don't go with the MB 149 or the Pelikan M1000, they are mammoth and hard to find a niche in your rotation.


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## Kittysafe

Monocrom, have you tried the new P3100 Pelikan Ductus Fountain Pen?


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## Monocrom

Kittysafe said:


> Monocrom, have you tried the new P3100 Pelikan Ductus Fountain Pen?


Not yet. Plan on correcting that though.


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## collectingfool

Monocrom said:


> Problem is, if you're a pen, or watch, or car enthusiast; you end up being lumped in with every pretentious ass who has zero actual appreciation for a Limited Edition MB, a Rolex Submariner, or a BMW M3. They just buy them only to show off. Yes, such "recognized" status symbols hold their value better than a Pelikan, a Damasko, or a Lotus. But if you're an enthusiast, you only need to justify your choices to yourself.


Amen brother! Truer words were never spoken. Been collecting for ages and I'm a fan of history and lots of other "unpopular" things. Can't tell you how frustrating it is when every once in a while something I was enjoying for years (in quiet anonymity) has a popularity spike and the people are either trying to talk to you with just the most basic understanding of a subject or look at you like you're a lemming following the latest fad. Unavoidable I guess, still annoying.


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## Kittysafe

I never felt that more than when I say I love Sriracha, and everyone thinks I'm an idiot, because all the cooking shows are so in love with Sriracha these days... not realizing I discovered Sriracha back around 1992, when no American knew what it was, and it was only used in really cheap awesome Chinese buffets! I fell in love with the stuff, and now it's on every cooking show in America and saying you like it, everyone thinks you're being trendy.


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## Monocrom

I wanted an Omega AT before Omega redesigned it, and then slapped the new model on Bond's wrist.


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