# Kingston and Tudor Black Bay



## Thieuster

I walked into a Rolex/Tudor dealer earlier today and asked about the Tudor Black Bay. The sales person showe me his. Now... in Dutch there's a saying: 'you can't compare apples and pears', saying that you're comparing two totally different things. At first, you can think that comparing a Kingston and a TBB is 'apples' and 'pears'. Well, it is not. Sadly, I didn't wear my Kingston today, I was wearing a modded Seiko SKX009. But I will return to the dealer with my Kingston on my wrist!!!

The look and feel of the Kingston is sooo close to the TBB's look and feel: the colour of the dial, the gilt markers and hands, the red triangle when compared with the TBB's red bezel... and... a very large crown! Like the Kingston's. When looking at the TBB, I can't help thinking again what I've written before: there must be a guy in Geneva following MKII website very closely: first the 39mm Explorer after Bill's Vantage and now this watch with this configuration after the introduction of the Kingston.

The TBB is a 'must have' watch on my list. Slightly larger than the Kingston, certainly thicker. The profile looks like the LRRP's profile.

So... if you happen to live in a county where you can try a TBB on your wrist and you happen to own a Kingston as well, just go to the Tudor dealer and check this yourself!

Menno


----------



## White Tuna

Thanks for the info. I really like the Black Bay. I have never seen one in real life but I really like the look. Did you see the bracelet? How is the bracelet?


----------



## tako_watch

The Black Bay has gotten my interest also...good to know it has the feel of the Kingston so we know the quality is up there.


----------



## exxondus

Not too sure abt quality as i only have the TBB. From the designs alone, the kingston looks like the black insert version of the TBB! Nice! A pity I cant get my hands on these beauties anymore


----------



## marchone

I heard that speculation about the Kingston and Black Bay at the NYC GTG. It's certainly possible. But not about another Tudor model. Which one is that? The Tudor website is awful. I wish they'd have one page with all of the models instead of hiding behind those silly graphics.

Still, I waded through enough to have a serious jones for the Pelagos.


----------



## TheDude

marchone said:


> I heard that speculation about the Kingston and Black Bay at the NYC GTG. It's certainly possible. But not about another Tudor model. Which one is that? The Tudor website is awful. I wish they'd have one page with all of the models instead of hiding behind those silly graphics.
> 
> Still, I waded through enough to have a serious jones for the Pelagos.


Ditto. Love the Pelagos. Matte ceramic lumed bezel? Yeah!

The TBB is nice but I can't deal with that crown or the ring of color on the tube.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## giosdad

The Tudor Black Bay is on that has caught my attention. Though a bit on the extreme side I like the red accents.


----------



## dece33

Just picked up my TBB and must say I love it. Gilt is very much like the Kingston. Snowflake hands are great as is the lume. Bracelet has a nice newly designed clasp. Kingston's, as we know, are awesome, especially at the price. Black Bay has those little features that make it "feel" like a high quality timepiece. The crown screws in perfectly, the bezel is silky smooth and exact, things you would expect at this price point. And the 42mm suits my 8+ inch wrist. Perfect solution: own both. Here's a couple quick pics:


----------



## brier

I really like the Black Bay.thanks for sharing .


----------



## sunster

dece33 said:


> Just picked up my TBB and must say I love it. Gilt is very much like the Kingston. Snowflake hands are great as is the lume. Bracelet has a nice newly designed clasp. Kingston's, as we know, are awesome, especially at the price. Black Bay has those little features that make it "feel" like a high quality timepiece. The crown screws in perfectly, the bezel is silky smooth and exact, things you would expect at this price point. And the 42mm suits my 8+ inch wrist. Perfect solution: own both. Here's a couple quick pics:


Youve caught the black bay at its best angle there. I love the idea and concept of this watch however like the dude, I can't get past the red crown insert ring. A side by side would be interesting to see how the gilt dials differ


----------



## dece33

sunster said:


> Youve caught the black bay at its best angle there. I love the idea and concept of this watch however like the dude, I can't get past the red crown insert ring. A side by side would be interesting to see how the gilt dials differ


I would love to do a side by side, but, alas, my Kingston is no more, unfortunately. I hope to pick one up again soon, and then we will do a side by side.


----------



## jswing

I love the look of the Black Bay, but being in the US I don't have access to one. I'm sure I can track one down at some point, as I did the Heritage chrono, but quite honestly I'm hoping that when I get my Kingston I'll forget all about the BB, because if they're as close as the specs and pics suggest, I couldn't justify the additional cost of the Tudor.


----------



## 66Cooper

Please, please, PLEASE take LOTs of pix of that fabric strap they come with. I am really interested in see these in more details and seeing what you think. I think I want one for my Kingston


----------



## Balidaan

I prefer the look to the kingston to the black bay. I am sure the finishing on the Tudor will be better but I just cant get over the red on the bezel.


----------



## Fullers1845

The Black Bay is nice looking, and I love the vintage direction Tudor is going with this and the Heritage Chrono. 

But, with the mishmash of features, it mostly seems like an ebay franken watch made with old Tudor parts. :-| (Gilt rose dial + snowflake hands + no crown guards + red bezel + oversized crown, etc.)

I would not pay ~$3,500 for the BB, especially since I have a Kingston!

(I do not prefer the larger size of the Tudor case & strap either.)

Tapatalk


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: I am pleased to see the return of the classic styling I've admired so much over the years from Tudor and Rolex.

The Tudor Black Bay is apparently attractive, but not to me. The jumble of colored parts and gilt and snowflake hands just doesn't draw me the way it does for some of you.

I'm very happy with my Kingston L34, and prefer it greatly over this offering. As far as my humble opinion, when I consider the price I paid for it, and perfect execution of design goals and function, it is an _exceptional value_, much more so than any current offering from Tudor or Rolex, or for that matter, any other marque.

-Best to all -

(And, if you get one of these, I hope you may enjoy it for a long, long time.)


----------



## White Tuna

I found this review comparing both:

Watches by SJX: Face off: Tudor Black Bay vs Mk II Kingston

I think the author may be a little jaded toward MKII but it is interesting. I appreciate the info and the pics.


----------



## TheDude

Nice.

Btw, this is what I meant when I have asked for deeper brushing on lugs and such...









Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## White Tuna

TheDude said:


> Nice.
> 
> Btw, this is what I meant when I have asked for deeper brushing on lugs and such...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


I like the look of the Black Bay but it has no lug holes. Don't a lot of people dislike the lack of lug holes to the point of not buying certain watches that lack them?

Also, someone mentioned the snow flake hands look odd with the round hour markers. Now everytime I see this watch that is all I see. I think the Pelagos has a nicer look to me now. I would still like to see both in person though.


----------



## enkidu

White Tuna said:


> I like the look of the Black Bay but it has no lug holes. Don't a lot of people dislike the lack of lug holes to the point of not buying certain watches that lack them?
> 
> Also, someone mentioned the snow flake hands look odd with the round hour markers. Now everytime I see this watch that is all I see. I think the Pelagos has a nicer look to me now. I would still like to see both in person though.


I agree. From a strictly case finishing standpoint, the Black Bay does look a step above the Kingston. However, from my personal form and design perspective, the Black Bay is a design nightmare, with mismatched markers and hands, ugly thick lugs and case, and too long hands. The review also doesn't touch on the amazing Kingston gilt dial and subtly domed crystal, the classic oversized crown. The Kingston is far from perfect, but a slightly lesser execution of a much much better design than the Black Bay. In my opinion, of course. The Pelagos, although a more tool watch design, has much better balance and aesthetics for me.


----------



## TheDude

enkidu said:


> I agree. From a strictly case finishing standpoint, the Black Bay does look a step above the Kingston. However, from my personal form and design perspective, the Black Bay is a design nightmare, with mismatched markers and hands, ugly thick lugs and case, and too long hands. The review also doesn't touch on the amazing Kingston gilt dial and subtly domed crystal, the classic oversized crown. The Kingston is far from perfect, but a slightly lesser execution of a much much better design than the Black Bay. In my opinion, of course. The Pelagos, although a more tool watch design, has much better balance and aesthetics for me.


Of course, I agree completely. However, I also agree with everything the reviewer said. To get to the next level, the quality of the casting on parts like bezels, crowns, end links, and bracelets needs to improve, or be machined.

Compare the bezel of the real thing (a Tudor actually). Crisp.









Now, I am totally happy with my MkIIs and this isn't a complaint, I am simply saying an objective comparison is right to point these differences out.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Thieuster

I think you can only compare the look and feel of these watches - like I wrote in my first posting back in July. 

The blogger who wrote the article safely avoids the fact that both watches have an ETA 2824 movement inside (perhaps the higher end version?) and that both watches are the same when it comes to WR (200m). Needless to say that, as a result of Bill's attention to detail, the Kingston runs within COSC measurement. Making it as good as the Tudor. Tudor's higher grade of finish is true. But then again, Rolex (Tudor) has more to spend on R&D, tooling etc.

There's a large gap between the price tags of both watches. Only to be justified by the fact that the Tudor's finish is -as said- outstanding. But, is the finish of the Tudor really 4 times better than the Kingston's? And remember, Bill wanted to build a watch echoeing a watch from decades past. Not a modern day interpretation like the Black Bay.

As I wrote back in July: I love the Black Bay. I'm glad Rolex had the guts to build it. It's a wonderful looking watch. And I really want to buy one. But in terms of producing a breathtaking watch at a certain price, I think that Bill did a better job: the Kingston is a bigger bang for your bucks!

Menno


----------



## rmasso

Thieuster said:


> I think you can only compare the look and feel of these watches - like I wrote in my first posting back in July.
> 
> The blogger who wrote the article safely avoids the fact that both watches have an ETA 2824 movement inside (perhaps the higher end version?) and that both watches are the same when it comes to WR (200m). Needless to say that, as a result of Bill's attention to detail, the Kingston runs within COSC measurement. Making it as good as the Tudor. Tudor's higher grade of finish is true. But then again, Rolex (Tudor) has more to spend on R&D, tooling etc.
> 
> There's a large gap between the price tags of both watches. Only to be justified by the fact that the Tudor's finish is -as said- outstanding. But, is the finish of the Tudor really 4 times better than the Kingston's? And remember, Bill wanted to build a watch echoeing a watch from decades past. Not a modern day interpretation like the Black Bay.
> 
> As I wrote back in July: I love the Black Bay. I'm glad Rolex had the guts to build it. It's a wonderful looking watch. And I really want to buy one. But in terms of producing a breathtaking watch at a certain price, I think that Bill did a better job: the Kingston is a bigger bang for your bucks!
> 
> Menno


If I can just add to what you said, Menno... the dial on the Kingston is Gilt using the old school dial method of the Gilt (gold plating) being beneath the black laquer paint. the gold on the dial on the Tudor is just painted on if you look closely. Although the Tudor is a very nice, crisp and sharp looking watch, the dial on the Kingston, IMHO, looks better due to the process in which it was made.
Rich


----------



## Fullers1845

Thieuster said:


> The blogger who wrote the article safely avoids the fact that both watches have an ETA 2824 movement inside (perhaps the higher end version?)


I could be wrong, but I thought the Kingston has an elabore grade ETA 2836 under the hood?

Tapatalk


----------



## rmasso

Same base movement. 2836 is a derivative of the 2824. It has the day of week function as well. 
-Rich


----------



## Fullers1845

rmasso said:


> Same base movement. 2836 is a derivative of the 2824. It has the day of week function as well.
> -Rich


Oh, right. I was mistaking it for the 21 jewel ETA 2892.

Tapatalk


----------



## Izzy

Sorry the Black Bay is a design mess. In many ways it is a frustrating solution, it smacks of design by commitee...


----------



## White Tuna

rmasso said:


> If I can just add to what you said, Menno... the dial on the Kingston is Gilt using the old school dial method of the Gilt (gold plating) being beneath the black laquer paint. the gold on the dial on the Tudor is just painted on if you look closely. Although the Tudor is a very nice, crisp and sharp looking watch, the dial on the Kingston, IMHO, looks better due to the process in which it was made.
> Rich


I think this is an important point. When the gold is painted on or printed it will not look the same and I personally feel would look cheaper. I wonder how many Black Bay owners sit at a stop light staring at the gleen of the gold on the dial and to admire how much the face of the watch can change with a slight turn of the wrist. I do this all the time. It almost makes me regret when I "catch the light".


----------



## Semuta

It's funny how many people complain about the snowflake hands not matching the dial when MKII cut its teeth with watch customization, which largely involved using parts from disparate designs to create modern interpretations of classic watches. It's not that the snowflake hands don't belong on that dial (they don't belong anywhere), it's just that we're not used to seeing them in that configuration.

I like the Black Bay. I really like it. I like the color. I like the odd crown cuff thing. I like the matte dial with gilt. I like that they used a more muted gold tone for the hands and markers. I do wish it had lug holes, and that it was closer to classic sizing, but those are just my preferences. I like smaller watches and I think watches of this design (subs) should have lug holes. It's almost as if it and the Kingston met in the same city but arrived by different roads.

And I love my Kingston. No doubt. But there is room for many watch designs and interpretations. After all, we can't just have direct copies of seminal watches. How would that be fun?

The Pelagos is cool too, but to me it kind of resembles a Seiko or something. And it's too big. Just my opinion.


----------



## enkidu

Semuta said:


> It's funny how many people complain about the snowflake hands not matching the dial when MKII cut its teeth with watch customization, which largely involved using parts from disparate designs to create modern interpretations of classic watches. It's not that the snowflake hands don't belong on that dial (they don't belong anywhere), it's just that we're not used to seeing them in that configuration.


I disagree. Do you think that the classic Rolex mercedes hands would go well with the snowflake dial markers, squares + rectangles? They don't belong because the shapes clash, like putting duaphine hands on a pilot dial.



Semuta said:


> I like the Black Bay. I really like it. I like the color. I like the odd crown cuff thing. I like the matte dial with gilt. I like that they used a more muted gold tone for the hands and markers. I do wish it had lug holes, and that it was closer to classic sizing, but those are just my preferences. I like smaller watches and I think watches of this design (subs) should have lug holes. It's almost as if it and the Kingston met in the same city but arrived by different roads.


Totally agree on the drilled lugs. The dial being matte and muted gold tones also go well together. It's just that the dimensions are all messed up. Both the hour and minute hands are too damn long. Look at this picture:









Note how the Black Bay's hands look cramped. I think it's because they went with the hand lengths from this model:









But the reason it works for the 1954 model is because the baton hands are much lighter and don't fill up the space like the snowflake hands. If they had gone with the original baton hands (properly sized of course) and drilled lugs it would have made the Black Bay much much better in my opinion. They high point of the Black Bay, in my opinion, is the wonderful case finishing and reeding of the bezel and crown; exquisite! Unfortunately the cartoonish hands and bezel bring the entire design down, in my opinion.



Semuta said:


> And I love my Kingston. No doubt. But there is room for many watch designs and interpretations. After all, we can't just have direct copies of seminal watches. How would that be fun?


 Completely agree. Actually, I'd love to get old style gilt baton hands for my Kingston but haven't been able to find a decent set to fit the Kingston dial.



Semuta said:


> The Pelagos is cool too, but to me it kind of resembles a Seiko or something. And it's too big. Just my opinion.


Well, it's only 42mm vs 41mm for the Black Bay. They're both too big (and thick) in my opinion. Drop the diameter of both by 2mm, and put in 2892's to make the cases 1-2mm thinner, give the Black Bay the old style elegant lugs and hands, and they would be much much better watches in my opinion.

And yes, definitely plenty of room for all types of watch designs (even bad ones). Different strokes and all that.


----------



## White Tuna

enkidu said:


> I disagree. Do you think that the classic Rolex mercedes hands would go well with the snowflake dial markers, squares + rectangles? They don't belong because the shapes clash, like putting duaphine hands on a pilot dial.


This is what I think. I did not notice it at first, and I LOVED the Black Bay when I first saw it, but now the squareness of the hands vs the round markers just irks me now. I think that there are a ton of design hits on that watch though. I would love to see the rose gold in person.


----------



## gonzomantis

enkidu said:


> They're both too big (and thick) in my opinion. Drop the diameter of both by 2mm, and put in 2892's to make the cases 1-2mm thinner, give the Black Bay the old style elegant lugs and hands, and they would be much much better watches in my opinion.
> 
> And yes, definitely plenty of room for all types of watch designs (even bad ones). Different strokes and all that.


100% agreement here.


----------



## Semuta

I might cede your point about the hands being a bit crowded, but I would have to reserve absolute judgement until I see one in the flesh. Watch pictures on the internet are extremely misleading. But I still maintain that the snowflake hands work here, and help it stand out from other Sub designs. 

At least we agree that they're both too big and too thick. I'm talking about the watches.


----------



## BigHaole

White Tuna said:


> I think this is an important point. When the gold is painted on or printed it will not look the same and I personally feel would look cheaper. I wonder how many Black Bay owners sit at a stop light staring at the gleen of the gold on the dial and to admire how much the face of the watch can change with a slight turn of the wrist. I do this all the time. It almost makes me regret when I "catch the light".


Sorry to bump an old thread, but I recently purchased a Tudor Black Bay and I have absolutely been guilty of staring at my watch at stoplights, and at work, and when my wife is trying to talk to me. I don't have a Kingston and I would not attempt to make a comparison, but I am extremely satisfied with the Black Bay. The gilt finish against the matte dark-dark-brown-but-not-quite-black dial is superb. I would love to see it side-by-side with the Kingston and see how they both reflect light. I only hope more manufacturers offer gilt dials.


----------



## mrklabb

BigHaole said:


> Sorry to bump an old thread, but I recently purchased a Tudor Black Bay and I have absolutely been guilty of staring at my watch at stoplights, and at work, and when my wife is trying to talk to me. I don't have a Kingston and I would not attempt to make a comparison, but I am extremely satisfied with the Black Bay. The gilt finish against the matte dark-dark-brown-but-not-quite-black dial is superb. I would love to see it side-by-side with the Kingston and see how they both reflect light. I only hope more manufacturers offer gilt dials.


If they had a date complication I'd have one!


----------



## wronghand

BigHaole said:


> Sorry to bump an old thread, but I recently purchased a Tudor Black Bay and I have absolutely been guilty of staring at my watch at stoplights, and at work, and when my wife is trying to talk to me. I don't have a Kingston and I would not attempt to make a comparison, but I am extremely satisfied with the Black Bay. The gilt finish against the matte dark-dark-brown-but-not-quite-black dial is superb. I would love to see it side-by-side with the Kingston and see how they both reflect light. I only hope more manufacturers offer gilt dials.


Having tried both. I will have to agree with you the Tudor is substantially best finished piece.


----------



## andygray8

time for some gratuitous photos! i do think they are very different beasts though...


----------



## White Tuna

The Black Bay is a very nice watch, there is no doubt. But I have read that the indices seem printed on? Does the gilt on the Black Bay shine at all? I really like the bezel and crown on the Black Bay. There is a huge amount of win on that watch.


----------



## andygray8

The indices look applied, and verily leap from the matt dial. The gilt is more conservative than the Kingston, and i would say gleams, rather than shines. It is a more subdued effect than the Kingston. The bezel and crown are works of art.

It is a stunning watch, wears a lot larger than the Kingston to my eye.


----------



## White Tuna

andygray8 said:


> The indices look applied, and verily leap from the matt dial. The gilt is more conservative than the Kingston, and i would say gleams, rather than shines. It is a more subdued effect than the Kingston. The bezel and crown are works of art.
> 
> It is a stunning watch, wears a lot larger than the Kingston to my eye.


Thank you for the response. Thank you for describing the gilt to me since I have never had the good fortune of seeing a Black Bay in person. It sounds very well done and makes me want to see one even more! I also need to see a Pelagos too.


----------



## Fullers1845

Wow. Beauty!


----------



## BigHaole

The Tudor Black Bay - Red dial is a very flat (not shiny) dark-dark-brown-almost-black dial (think the color of a cup of black coffee), gilt and C3 lume. The combination makes the lume look, in daylight, a little bit like the old tritium patina. It's a subtle effect, and not nearly as noticeable as an "aged" lume looks. I was wondering if Kingston owners with gilt and C3 see the same thing. I didn't even appreciate it, until I looked at the blue dial Tudor, which is more of a true inky black dial, no gilt, and BG W9 lume. That was stark white, in comparison.

This gets me thinking back to some of the discussions on the Project GMT thread about lume color. If the dial is a flat black and will be gilt (which I think was confirmed), then I'm leaning more toward wanting the black dial and C3, rather than the white dial and BG W9.


----------



## White Tuna

BigHaole said:


> The Tudor Black Bay - Red dial is a very flat (not shiny) dark-dark-brown-almost-black dial (think the color of a cup of black coffee), gilt and C3 lume. The combination makes the lume look, in daylight, a little bit like the old tritium patina. It's a subtle effect, and not nearly as noticeable as an "aged" lume looks. I was wondering if Kingston owners with gilt and C3 see the same thing. I didn't even appreciate it, until I looked at the blue dial Tudor, which is more of a true inky black dial, no gilt, and BG W9 lume. That was stark white, in comparison.
> 
> This gets me thinking back to some of the discussions on the Project GMT thread about lume color. If the dial is a flat black and will be gilt (which I think was confirmed), then I'm leaning more toward wanting the black dial and C3, rather than the white dial and BG W9.


Bill has stated he prefers the BGW9 on the Kingston.

I have both and prefer the C3. To me the C3 looks vintage because it has a slight greenish hue to it that I associate with older lumed stuff like watches, Ranger Eyes and compasses.

The BGW9 is white. It looks great. But I prefer the traditional, slightly unnecessary, green hue that the C3 brings to the table.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

White Tuna said:


> Bill has stated he prefers the BGW9 on the Kingston.
> 
> I have both and prefer the C3. To me the C3 looks vintage because it has a slight greenish hue to it that I associate with older lumed stuff like watches, Ranger Eyes and compasses.
> 
> The BGW9 is white. It looks great. But I prefer the traditional, slightly unnecessary, green hue that the C3 brings to the table.


 Well, I agree with you about the C3. As you do, I have both versions of the Kingston, and while they are both stunning in appearance and execution, I find that I prefer the C3 over the BGW9. For the same reason as you, but sometimes (maybe it is the way the light filters up north here) that BGW9 takes on a blue-grey cast under certain cloudy or low light conditions - and it just doesn't look as good when that happens, In my humble opinion. Under bright light, the BGW9 almost always looks white. - and that effect is very nice when it contrasts with the deep black dial.

On the other hand, C3 under certain light conditions can look very pale green-grey, almost white. But under most it has a greenish cast - that I don't mind at all, and I agree, for some reason it looks like it belongs, without looking 'Fake-Vintage' - IMHO.

The 'Kicker' for me is, that I believe the C3 is more efficient as a lume material - it simply re-radiates more light output.... ;-)

-Best-


----------



## BigHaole

C3 is slightly more efficient than BG W9, but the difference is small. I think it comes down more to color preference (green or blue) and the amount of lume that is applied. A heavy coating of BG W9 will out perform a lighter coating of C3.

I think the dial will make all the difference. If we have a shiny, deep black dial, then I will probably go BG W9, because I like the blue lume on a pilot watch (personal preference). But if the dial is more of a matte finish, and if it is not a deep black, but more of a dark coffee / cigar / whatever, then I will probably go for C3. 

Of course that all hinges on Bill deciding if lume color is a choice for each buyer or not. It is not clear that it will be.


----------



## White Tuna

I would bet that the lume will be BGW9 on the black dial Key West and that there will be no option. I base this on my own sense of self importance.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

I will take either one.


----------



## 66Cooper

I remember that bill preferred the BGW9 when he did the Kingston when someone asked. My guess is that as well for the KW. 
I have C3 on my Kingston and really love it. Maybe the BGW9 will grow on me and at least I can use that as the reason for getting two VERY similar watches when the wife asks


----------



## andygray8

Fullers1845 said:


> Wow. Beauty!


Thanks, she is my favourite watch. Waiting on a Gunny Black Bay strap to dress her up in.


----------



## raptus

I've owned a red Black Bay for a few months, but have now put it up for sale. While I really like the idea and the concept of that model, it just never really grew on me on the wrist. It always felt a little too big and frankly uncomfortable on my wrist. I like a watch that I can admire when I want, and forget about when I want. Also, I just couldn't get over the price of it, after all. Never felt too comfortable wearing something that valuable on my wrist. 

I guess the whole reason I got the BB in the first place was the Kingston, but getting one of those on the used market seemed like a bit of a risk and hassle, especially seeing that most are based in the US, very few in Europe. So, what did it all come to? Now I have a 3-6-9 Nassau on order with Bill, to be built December 1st. I've looked a thousands of pictures of watches on the web, but keep coming back to that one model. Really hoping the size will be alright. The closest thing I've tried on have been vintage Subs, Explorer IIs and GMTs, and they've been pretty much the perfect size, so I'm confident. Looking forward to be part of the MKII "family" :-D


----------



## adzman808

I have been a fan of the TBB ever since first seeing pictures. My only complaint was the red crown collar and I was unsure about about the colour of the bezel.

When I got to see a TBB IRL I really liked the shade of red used for the bezel, and the crown collar wasn't really noticeable on the wrist in real size (rather than blown up to the size of my monitor)

The mis-match between hands and markers has never really bothered me, it works well against a sea of sub-a-like designs and it's a good area of a watch to have sone contrast imo

My main issue with the TBB IRL was the crazy proportions... It's not at all to big when I read the spec and I have owned other 42mm dive watches (I realise the TBB is only 41) and still have a 43 watch. The bezel is a bit thin, when viewed face on and especially when viewed from the from the side. I also found the BB to look too slab sided when compared to the submariner shape, a bit like comparing the side view of a aircraft carrier compared to a classic ocean liner.

That said, I found the TBB fit, finish and quality to be really high, and I'm a massive sucker for the feeling of quality, and whereas I have criticisms of the BB shape, I do like how it's NOT just another sub clone (despite Tudor having more right than most to make a sub clone lol)

Ultimately as a 114060 owner I passed on the TBB, not because they're too similar in look, but simply because they'd share the same wearing duties and occupy a to similar position in my collection (namely "not inexpensive diver watches that one must take some degree of care over")

I never could quite get over the TBB though....

....So when the opportunity to own a Kingston came up I jumped at it, and I haven't been disappointed, the dimensions are imo perfect, the dial gilt a step above (the TBB) and I've always liked Mercedes hands!

But STILL my mind wanders to the TBB, i mean WTF? The Kingston not only looks better (imo) but it's rarer, more WIS and more special, and as better finished as the TBB is, I have the 114060 for that (which imo is at least one, maybe two levels above the TBB in that department)

So in summary of a fairly random and rambling post, I'd say that the TBB has enough going for it to be desired in it's own right, a homage that has out grown it's homage status if you will.

I continue to tell myself not to buy the TBB..... Time will tell!


----------



## Fullers1845

I thought I liked the Black Bay. (I do "like" it actually. I'd take it to dinner and a movie; wouldn't buy it a beer or get it bowling shoes though, Dude...). Until I handled one in person. Then I realized the reason I "liked" the BB is because I "Love" my Kingston... YMMV. b-)|>


----------

