# Junkers Bauhaus or Junghans Max Bill?



## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

These two German watches have similar aesthetics. Why is the Junghans more expensive?
I am considering one of the ones pictured for my next purchase.

In the included picture, please note that the watches are NOT to scale with each other.


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## dhtjr (Feb 7, 2013)

The Junghans Max Bill is a classic with a loyal following and history. The Junkers is a decent looking watch, but I can't get past that giant logo at 6.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

The Max Bill is the more iconic one. Price differences reflect different finish, case design (the Max Bill being way more elegant, the Junkers case being more "prominent"), dial quality and, and, and.....
Annual production:
Junghans: 50.000
Pointtec: 150.000
So Pointtec is ordering in (remarkable) larger quatities which for sure equals to other prime costs. Pointtec sources parts from France and Switzerland, Junghans from CH and GER which might influence the MSRP as well.


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## Delfino Furioso (Nov 15, 2016)

be advised that the cream tone of the junkers' dial is stronger than what your pic might suggest

this is more accurate:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/68/f3/c8/68f3c864d5982cd34563107d0192abfc.jpg

as for the cost difference: junkers has a thicker and basic-ish miyota movement

choosing other references, using on eta/sellita calibers, bring you closer to the junghans price range
https://shop.junkers.de/en/junkers-6030-5-bauhaus.html


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## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

Delfino Furioso said:


> be advised that the cream tone of the junkers' dial is stronger than what your pic might suggest
> 
> this is more accurate:
> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/68/f3/c8/68f3c864d5982cd34563107d0192abfc.jpg
> ...


The Junkers I'm looking at (In my picture) have the ETA or sellita movement.


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## Raku (Mar 20, 2017)

I would say go with the one that appeals to you more, the one that you see yourself wearing, because in terms of specifications there is not much difference between them. They both use ETA 2824-2 (although Junghans calls it J800.1), none of them has sapphire crystal or shell cordovan leather strap.
And don't listen to advice that you should buy a watch considering the amount of sales a company has. Stowa sells 5000 watches in a year and Swatch sells millions, does that make Swatch better?

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk


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## laza80 (Aug 9, 2016)

Junghans is rather small watch (38mm vs Junkers' 40mm), so depending on your wrist size it may be inadequate (or otherwise).


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Raku said:


> And don't listen to advice that you should buy a watch considering the amount of sales a company has. Stowa sells 5000 watches in a year and Swatch sells millions, does that make Swatch better?


That's not what I said or intended to say. I tried to explain that a different purchasing price for parts has impact on the MRSP of the final product. If you are in the fortunate position to order more 2824,more cases, more dials, more, more, more than a competitor can you are able to mirror this in the asking price.

To OP:


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## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

Raku said:


> I would say go with the one that appeals to you more, the one that you see yourself wearing, because in terms of specifications there is not much difference between them. They both use ETA 2824-2 (although Junghans calls it J800.1), none of them has sapphire crystal or shell cordovan leather strap.
> And don't listen to advice that you should buy a watch considering the amount of sales a company has. Stowa sells 5000 watches in a year and Swatch sells millions, does that make Swatch better?
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk


Thank you for the confirmation of spec similarities.


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## Raku (Mar 20, 2017)

Dhtjr and laza80 give some very good advice in considering the history and size of a watch.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk


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## BVItalia (Apr 19, 2016)

One more vote for the original: Junghans!


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## flyingpicasso (Jun 28, 2010)

I keep getting reminded how much I like the clean, classic design of the Max Bill. I seriously might need to buy one.


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## vinylgreek (Feb 4, 2008)

I don't know if this contribution will add anything of value to the conversation but here goes. A comparison of the faces of the two reveals that the Max Bill has a far thinner bezel which draws the eye more to the dial and thereby creates a more unified appearance overall, in my estimation at least. I find this very appealing and my Max Bill Chronoscope is my most complimented timepiece.


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## Hesemonni (May 27, 2017)

dhtjr said:


> The Junghans Max Bill is a classic with a loyal following and history. The Junkers is a decent looking watch, but I can't get past that giant logo at 6.


I used to think the same and I really like minimalistic dials. But nowadays I think I actually prefer Junkers. It sort of gives the watch more character and presence.

Hard to go wrong with either watch though.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

The Junkers Bauhaus ETA/Peseux 7001 with anthrazite dial does not look that bad, right ?









Ref.no. 6030-2
ETA 7001 - 17 jewels, 
Hesalite crystal
Galvanized anthracite dial
Diameter: 40mm
Water-resistant: 3 atm


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## rpugh40 (May 20, 2015)

My vote is for the Junghans Max Bill. The Q I ask myself before every watch purchase is: Will I still want to wear this in 5 years? The Max Bill is more of a classic that I know I'll never tire of wearing.


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## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

(this is the OP)
I decided to go with the Junghans, model 027/3500.00, (Max Bill Automatic Silver Dial Numerals)
The attached picture is not mine, just internet. I will post my own later on.
I find it interesting that the manual recommends either 30 or 40 winds for maximum winding. Doesn't seem like a lot. Junghans lists the movement as J880.1, basic calibre is ETA 2824-2.

This is quite an attractive watch in person, very crisp dial. Having received this yesterday, all the tags are still on it, and it is undergoing a power reserve test. Accuracy has been +1 ~ +2 spd over 17 hours, I haven't owned it for 24 hours yet!

Thank you to all for your advice / suggestions.


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## dhtjr (Feb 7, 2013)

Nice choice. Be careful about habitually fully hand winding the watch, as the movement is designed more for the rotor to wind it, and there seems to be a consensus that certain parts will be damaged or prematurely worn by regular manual winding. And also be sure to pull the crown all the way out when setting the time. Like some other brands that use the 2824 on non-date watches, Junghans regrettably leaves the date wheel and mechanism inside the watch, so if you mistakenly pull the crown out to only the second position thinking you are setting the time, you could damage the movement by unknowingly engaging the date mechanism during certain hours. Just some friendly advice. Hope you enjoy the watch; that's always been my favorite Max Bill model.


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## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

dhtjr said:


> Nice choice. Be careful about habitually fully hand winding the watch, as the movement is designed more for the rotor to wind it, and there seems to be a consensus that certain parts will be damaged or prematurely worn by regular manual winding. And also be sure to pull the crown all the way out when setting the time. Like some other brands that use the 2824 on non-date watches, Junghans regrettably leaves the date wheel and mechanism inside the watch, so if you mistakenly pull the crown out to only the second position thinking you are setting the time, you could damage the movement by unknowingly engaging the date mechanism during certain hours. Just some friendly advice. Hope you enjoy the watch; that's always been my favorite Max Bill model.


Thank you for the advice!


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## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

dhtjr said:


> Nice choice. Be careful about habitually fully hand winding the watch, as the movement is designed more for the rotor to wind it, and there seems to be a consensus that certain parts will be damaged or prematurely worn by regular manual winding. And also be sure to pull the crown all the way out when setting the time. Like some other brands that use the 2824 on non-date watches, Junghans regrettably leaves the date wheel and mechanism inside the watch, so if you mistakenly pull the crown out to only the second position thinking you are setting the time, you could damage the movement by unknowingly engaging the date mechanism during certain hours. Just some friendly advice. Hope you enjoy the watch; that's always been my favorite Max Bill model.


I had heard about not hand winding this ETA movement before. However, in the Junghans manual it advises to fully wind the watch (even automatics) prior to wearing. (see attached).
Also, the exact movement for this model (027/3500.00) is listed as J880.1, but the manual mentions only the J805.1, J800.1, and the J880.2. I'm not sure where the J880.1 falls.


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## dhtjr (Feb 7, 2013)

Sid_Mac said:


> I had heard about not hand winding this ETA movement before. However, in the Junghans manual it advises to fully wind the watch (even automatics) prior to wearing. (see attached).
> Also, the exact movement for this model (027/3500.00) is listed as J880.1, but the manual mentions only the J805.1, J800.1, and the J880.2. I'm not sure where the J880.1 falls.
> 
> 
> View attachment 12277786


Pretty sure the J880.1 is the chronograph (ETA 7750 base) for the Max Bill Chronoscope. Your watch uses the J800.1, which is ETA 2824 based, and used in all the Max Bill three-hand automatics. At least that appears to be the info on the Junghans site.


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## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

dhtjr said:


> Pretty sure the J880.1 is the chronograph (ETA 7750 base) for the Max Bill Chronoscope. Your watch uses the J800.1, which is ETA 2824 based, and used in all the Max Bill three-hand automatics. At least that appears to be the info on the Junghans site.


Maybe that "J880.1" is a typo on the Junghans site since there is no mention of it in the manual.


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## dhtjr (Feb 7, 2013)

That appears to be from the Junghans USA site, and the caliber is a typo. J880.1 is the ETA 7750 base for the Chronoscope chronograph model. Evidently a simple error. The user manual on the Junghans German website lists all the calibers for the Max Bill mechanical variations, including the J800.1 (ETA 2824 automatic; your 38mm watch), J805.1 (ETA 2801 manual wind in the 34mm model), J880.2 (ETA 7750 auto chronograph in the Chronoscope). These numbers match those listed with each individual watch on the main website as well.

https://www.junghans.de/typo3conf/ext/junghans_collection/Resources/Public/pdf/Line/maxBill.pdf


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## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

dhtjr said:


> That appears to be from the Junghans USA site, and the caliber is a typo. J880.1 is the ETA 7750 base for the Chronoscope chronograph model. Evidently a simple error. The user manual on the Junghans German website lists all the calibers for the Max Bill mechanical variations, including the J800.1 (ETA 2824 automatic; your 38mm watch), J805.1 (ETA 2801 manual wind in the 34mm model), J880.2 (ETA 7750 auto chronograph in the Chronoscope). These numbers match those listed with each individual watch on the main website as well.
> 
> https://www.junghans.de/typo3conf/ext/junghans_collection/Resources/Public/pdf/Line/maxBill.pdf


Thank you!


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## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

Here is mine. I tried to post this earlier, but must have neglected to do something correctly. So, here it is, my own pictures:


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## dhtjr (Feb 7, 2013)

Lovely watch Sid_Mac. If I ever resolve my somewhat neurotic, though justifiable, aversion to the hidden date wheel, this watch will likely top my short list.


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## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

dhtjr said:


> Lovely watch Sid_Mac. If I ever resolve my somewhat neurotic, though justifiable, aversion to the hidden date wheel, this watch will likely top my short list.


I never knew about the hidden date wheel until you mentioned it. Seems weird Junghans would do that, unless it was cheaper to manufacture it that way. German efficiency?


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## dhtjr (Feb 7, 2013)

Sid_Mac said:


> I never knew about the hidden date wheel until you mentioned it. Seems weird Junghans would do that, unless it was cheaper to manufacture it that way. German efficiency?


Undoubtedly for the sake of manufacturing efficiency, though this sort of shortcut seems very un-Teutonic. But Junghans isn't alone in doing this. Doesn't detract from the visual beauty of the watch of course.

I should mention one other thing you may not be aware of. The plexiglass crystal is coated with a substance called Sicralan, which evidently provides some added visual warmth and extra scratch protection. But if you scratch the crystal, don't try to buff it out using Polywatch or other things commonly used to remove scratches from uncoated plexi/acrylic crystals. It will likely damage the coating and look worse. You can do a search and see a few threads about this. Just another thing to keep in mind.


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## Sid_Mac (Sep 2, 2016)

dhtjr said:


> Undoubtedly for the sake of manufacturing efficiency, though this sort of shortcut seems very un-Teutonic. But Junghans isn't alone in doing this. Doesn't detract from the visual beauty of the watch of course.
> 
> I should mention one other thing you may not be aware of. The plexiglass crystal is coated with a substance called Sicralan, which evidently provides some added visual warmth and extra scratch protection. But if you scratch the crystal, don't try to buff it out using Polywatch or other things commonly used to remove scratches from uncoated plexi/acrylic crystals. It will likely damage the coating and look worse. You can do a search and see a few threads about this. Just another thing to keep in mind.


Thank you again for the additional info!


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## rpugh40 (May 20, 2015)

Sid_Mac said:


> Here is mine. I tried to post this earlier, but must have neglected to do something correctly. So, here it is, my own pictures:
> 
> View attachment 12284850
> View attachment 12284874
> ...


I may need to pull the trigger on this! I've been on the fence with this model for almost 2 years. I recently picked up the Nomos Metro which I thought would check my Junghans box...but every time I see pictures like these...I'm tempted again!


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## Raku (Mar 20, 2017)

Sid_Mac said:


> Here is mine. I tried to post this earlier, but must have neglected to do something correctly. So, here it is, my own pictures:
> 
> View attachment 12284850
> View attachment 12284874
> ...


Congratulations, it's a very handsome watch. Wear it in good health!

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk


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## BigFatFred (Jan 27, 2017)

Great choice. This reference is a complete classic from Junghans, people who know about watches know this is the modern sized version of the original design, Junkers doesn't have the heritage, the Junghans will look always look gorgeous it's really a timeless design 

This exact watch is my next purchase.


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## BigFatFred (Jan 27, 2017)

Don't get too hung up on the movement and the date mechanism. The dial case and hands are the key parts of the look


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## Rosenbloom (May 9, 2016)

Here's mine. Truly a timeless classic.


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## Rosenbloom (May 9, 2016)




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## Slm643 (Feb 21, 2017)

All I can say is that a beautiful watch! I will be making a trip to the Waterford Mi. area soon to get one!
I would go with


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## priamo (Sep 14, 2017)

I like this watch too. 40mm. The Flying Man at the top. The marker there bisects the 12. I find that curious but interesting.


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