# powermatic 80 nylon components and shorter service interval?



## georgenaka (May 18, 2018)

the Seastar has so much going for it. ceramic bezel, 300m wr, free sprung balance wheel, silicon hairspring. It's basically my perfect watch at that price point. I recently visited a watchmaker and asked his opinion on the powermatic 80 movement within. He was not optimistic about the long term durability of it. I was told that there is some nylon component in the movement and that the tweaks made to achieve an 80hr power reserve in turn undermine the long term durability of the movement. Those with experience and knowledge about this movement please chime in. I still want to get the new seastar!


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## pickle puss (Feb 13, 2006)

Sounds like something somebody who makes money from servicing watches would say.


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## palletwheel (May 15, 2019)

Go onto the watchmakers forum with this, you should get some good answers. I have one question out in one of the threads. These movements are meant to be toss away with around a 4 year replacement. The factory will salvage what they can to rebuild the replacements people get. But it's not clear to me if it will make it the four years and still keep a precise and accurate rate. Would like to learn more about this myself. Generally speaking Swatch made it hard for independents to service these.


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## Fatz028 (Mar 14, 2009)

I don’t think this is true. I have the new sea star Powermatic 80 and the older looking sea star. The new one looks like it has no plastic parts where the older one has plastic parts.


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## MrDisco99 (Jul 5, 2018)

pickle puss said:


> Sounds like something somebody who makes money from servicing watches would say.


Yeah heaven forbid you should want your watch to be serviceable by an independent watchmaker.

These new Powermatic movements are great in that they offer a nice long PR which people like. But it seems to me they are meant to be thrown away rather than serviced. The long PR is likely implemented thanks to lower tension needed from the mainspring through the train. The only way to do that (besides lowering the frequency which they've also done) is to reduce the force needed to flip the escapement, and the easiest way to do that is to make things lighter. Unfortunately lighter usually means weaker... replacing metal parts and jewels with synthetic materials that require less force to move but are more susceptible to damage over time.

I've seen talk of how you can only service them through people with Swatch accounts. Which means Swatch controls the cost of service and can make it prohibitively expensive if they choose. Swatch Group seem to be heading down the Apple model of implementing technology. Make it fragile and difficult to service so we're more likely to throw it away and buy it again than get it fixed.

I'd rather have an old fashioned ETA that beats at 4Hz, uses a real jeweled escapement, I can regulate myself, and pretty much any watchmaker can work on forever. But that's just me.


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## M1ks (Mar 16, 2019)

I don't know about this particular movement but this practise has been Swatch's method from the outset.
Build in not only obsolescence but design deliberately to last only a given period then make the serviceable bits. (Straps e.g. On the older quartz) prohibitively expensive and hard to get to encourage disposal and replacement.


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## Impulse (Dec 13, 2014)

palletwheel said:


> Go onto the watchmakers forum with this, you should get some good answers. I have one question out in one of the threads. These movements are meant to be toss away with around a 4 year replacement. The factory will salvage what they can to rebuild the replacements people get. But it's not clear to me if it will make it the four years and still keep a precise and accurate rate. Would like to learn more about this myself. Generally speaking Swatch made it hard for independents to service these.


Any chance you're talking about Tissot's Swissmatic movement (70-80 hr PR) which uses plastic parts (essentially a Swatch Sistem51 movement) vs the C07.111 Powermatic 80, which is a modified ETA2824?


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## MrDisco99 (Jul 5, 2018)

Impulse said:


> Any chance you're talking about Tissot's Swissmatic movement (70-80 hr PR) which uses plastic parts (essentially a Swatch Sistem51 movement) vs the C07.111 Powermatic 80, which is a modified ETA2824?


One is to a greater extent than the other, but both have similar problems. The Swissmatic is essentially a disposable mechanical movement. The Powermatic 80 is derived from the 2824, but it has some "nylon" (plastic) parts in it to help with the longer PR and make it less serviceable.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

I was assured by a Tissot AD that the P80 movements used in Tissots could be serviced whereas those used in Swatches were “sealed for life”


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## Yukoner1 (Aug 26, 2019)

sticky said:


> I was assured by a Tissot AD that the P80 movements used in Tissots could be serviced whereas those used in Swatches were "sealed for life"


I've been told the same.

The real question is what does "service" mean. If you have your Tissot P80 movement "serviced" by Tissot, they will give you a 2 year additional warranty from the moment your servicing is completed. It may very well be that they simply swap the entire movement out with a "remanufactured" one. And the one that came out of your watch then goes to the factory for remanufacturing itself, to be swapped into someone else's watch at some point.

Are you OK with that ? People can be very finicky with these types of things, for whatever reason. Personally, I'd be fine with a swapped out movement. Some people wouldn't be.

If you don't go the Tissot-route for servicing, I'm sure a competent watchmaker could service the movement (cleaning, lubricating, etc). If parts were needed, however, that's where it might get a bit tricky.


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## georgenaka (May 18, 2018)

The long PR is likely implemented thanks to lower tension needed from the mainspring through the train. The only way to do that (besides lowering the frequency which they've also done) is to reduce the force needed to flip the escapement, and the easiest way to do that is to make things lighter. Unfortunately lighter usually means weaker... replacing metal parts and jewels with synthetic materials that require less force to move but are more susceptible to damage over time.

I'd rather have an old fashioned ETA that beats at 4Hz, uses a real jeweled escapement, I can regulate myself, and pretty much any watchmaker can work on forever. But that's just me.[/QUOTE]

This lines up with the opinion of said watchmaker. I agree, there are things about the movement that don't appeal to me. I'd prefer a workhorse movement that could easily be serviced by many


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

Also decided to go for a watch with a P-80 despite reservations about the movement because the rest of the watch was very attractive, figuring I might be able swap it out for a 2824 at some point.


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## georgenaka (May 18, 2018)

yankeexpress said:


> Also decided to go for a watch with a P-80 despite reservations about the movement because the rest of the watch was very attractive, figuring I might be able swap it out for a 2824 at some point.


p-80 has a lot of things going for it, i've heard its very accurate with the free sprung balance, and it would be more resistant to shocks if it has the new silicon hairspring. All depends on what you value, for me, robustness and long term ease of serviceability are rather important


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## Jezza (Aug 4, 2010)

The “Powermatic” movement covers a lot of territory. That is, there are a number of C07.XXX movements with slight variations. Typically, the CO7.111 has a synthetic palette fork and escape wheel. This is why it has 23J versus 25: the two missing jewels are from the palette fork. However, the new Silicium Powermatic movements use a metal palette fork with ruby palette jewels, thus have 25J total. 

Overall, the increase in power reserve comes primarily from a reduction in frequency from 4hz to 3hz, and a more powerful mainspring. I’m not certain it has to do with thinner parts. The use of a synthetic escapement has more to do with the self-lubricating properties of synthetic materials. There are versions of the Powermatic family that have fully decorated bridges, blued screws and Chronometer certifications. Of course, it’s possible Tissot might swap the movement during service, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s disposable. 

Tudor does the same thing, as do many companies with respect to the chronograph module added to the 2892 movement. However, these components are not thrown away, but rather serviced and used for future swap-outs.


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## Kirves (Jul 28, 2020)

Powermatic 80 is a movement in its own right and should not be compared with sistem 51. I personally own a Tissot gentleman with powermatic 80 (C07.811 version to be specific) and have been very satisfied with accuracy. My watch is running within COSC though it's not even COSC certified. According to my research there are no plastic parts involved (at least in this particular version of the movement). I have come to a conclusion that the movement is partly traditional and partly modular. For example when repairing, some parts will be replaced as parts, but some parts like the balance wheel construction will be replaced as a modular unit.

I found this article very informative:









Swatch Group’s Powermatic Movement, a Powerful Entry-Level Engine - Monochrome Watches


All you need to know about Swatch Group’s Powermatic Movement, A Powerful Entry-Level Engine with modern technology, accuracy but accessibility.




monochrome-watches.com


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## Watchamacollit (May 24, 2021)

Just an FYI - the 23 jewel Powermatic 80 does have polymer (plastic) parts, but the 25 jewel Powermatic 80 does not. See the "how to tell the difference" section at Caliber Corner for more details: Tissot Caliber Powermatic 80 Watch Movement | Caliber Corner


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## cordi7 (Jan 27, 2019)

Lot of speculation here so let me share the response of ETA regarding Powermatic serviceability:










Sistem51 / Swissmatic is NOT serviceable, Powermatic - is.


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## Camguy (Nov 23, 2012)

The legendary Lemania 5100 has plastic (I think they're called "delrin?") parts and it's no less robust...maybe even more so...in spite of them.


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