# Mont Blanc meisterstuck legrande ballpoint vs caran d'ache leman ebony black ballpoint?



## ombladon

I really want to buy a ballpoint and not a fountain pen cause I write a lot at the law school and I want a ready to go pen. I know that fountain pens need special attention regarding cleaning etc. and I don't have time for it, so I want a ballpoint. Few days ago I was settle just on the Mont Blanc model, but accidentally I found caran d'ache writing instruments, so I please owners of them please reply me and tell me from your experience which is a better brand and last forever?

I like Mont Blanc cause they will engrave you for free and the meisterstuck legrande is very very beautiful.

but I also like caran d'ache because they offer international lifetime warranty( which Mont Blanc doesn't offer) and the caran d'ache Goliath refil quarantee 600 A4 sheets of paper. I don't have such kind of information regarding the Mont Blanc model.

please help me!!

these are the models I want

Writing Instruments Meisterstück LeGrand Ballpoint Pen | Montblanc

Ballpoint Pen Leman Ebony Black Gold-plated Finishing


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## amine

Aesthetically the Montblanc stands out, the Caran D'Ache resembles CROSS pens and the like a lot, it is however a good quality pen and in the long lasting refill department it wins hands down as the MB refills tend to run out fast (in my experience). If i were in your position, i'd stick with German (Pelikan, some MB, Graf Von Faber Castell) or Japanese (Namiki, Sailor) pen companies when it comes to writing instruments if the intended use is mainly for intensive regular writing (daily). Have a look also at Montegrappa and Omas as they are also specialized in pens.


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## ombladon

Sorry, but I really want one of these remarkebly pieces. So you say MB wins for sure? I really like the lifetime quarantee n caran d'ache and you can't say the ballpoint is ugly. I know that beauty is subjective, but for me caran d'ache, like MB is more then beauty..


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## Mike_Dowling

Each one uses a $10.00 refill to write with so just pick which one you think is nicer looking. My opinion is the Montblanc all day.


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## Snoweagle

I have the Meisterstück Le Grand platinum ballpoint and honestly it's a truly awesome pen!


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## Therightadvisor

When you buy a ballpoint pen in this price range, you’re buying it for the presence, history, and value beyond how well it puts a line on a paper. As others have said, both of the pens in question use a <$10 refill. 

My personal opinion is to go with the Montblanc 161 Le Grand Ballpoint. However, I am very partial. I use my 161 ballpoints as my go-to pens. I currently own three with a Unicef version in the mail as we speak.

Size: The Le Grand is a much larger pen. While I haven’t owned the Caran D’Ache pen, the pictures make it look comparable in size to the smaller Montblanc 164 Classique. The 161 is the perfect size for a larger hand while I consider the 164 to be more of a “pocket pen” in terms of size (the 116 Mozart being even smaller).

Build quality: Again, I’m speaking only of the Montblanc pens I have personal experience with. The build quality is very good. There are certainly cheaper pens with comparable (if not better) build quality, but these are luxury pens and the premium does not come from the build quality. If you're the kind of person who wears Wrangler jeans and drives a Honda Civic because they're "cheap and reliable" then these probably aren't for you. If you're the kind of person who wears a $1000+ suit and drives a BMW you may find value with pens at this price range. Neither situation is better or worse than the other, but everyone is different and we all appreciate different thigns for different reasons.

Writing experience: Again, these use $8 refills so you shouldn’t buy either of them for their ability to put ink onto paper. I’m a big fan of the Montblanc Broad point ballpoint refills, but it would be silly to buy a $400+ pen solely for its $8 refill.

Brand history, recognition, and presence: This is where Montblanc shines. Montblanc is the leading household name in the luxury pen market. 99% of people have heard of Montblanc. They have a rich history of making luxury pens which is partially why they can demand the prices they do. When I see someone writing with a Montblanc, I’m the kind of person to ask them about it. As a pen collector the “white mountain top” on top of the pen is the easiest symbol to recognize. 90% of the time people were gifted their Montblanc pens or bought them just because they wanted to spend money, but the other 10% of the time I’ve made friends with another collector or had a chance to have a conversation with someone who appreciates them.

No matter what your reasoning is, it’s your money. I find value in writing with my Montblanc pens for many reasons. If you’re the kind of person that buys solely for build quality, then you probably aren’t shopping for $400+ ballpoint pens anyways. If you’re the kind of person to who wants a great pen from a great company and finds value beyond it being “just a pen” then I’d go with the Montblanc 161 Le Grand 100% of the time.

Reiteration of my comments: There is no right or wrong answer to this question. Many people think I'm crazy for owning thousands of dollars of pens. Even pen collectors often think it's crazy to spend that kind of money on a ballpoint/rollerball. No matter what your reasoning is, buy it because the value is worth the cost TO YOU rather than someone else.


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## ombladon

@therightadvisor, thank you very much. You are very right. I really appreciate pens collectors. I know that 90% of pen collector have a fountain pen collection, not a ballpoint, or roller point collection and I really like it, but I don't buy my next ballpoint just to add to a collection cause first of all I don't have a collection. I think this ballpoint is great for me to start a collection. Secondly I really want to use it and I hope a lot this will not disappoint me( I don't understand why a company with suck a big tradition like Mont Blanc doesn't offer a lifetime quaranty?). I know that caran d'ache and other major brand offer lifetime quaranty( I think montegrappa offers lifetime quarantee too).

regarding the beauty of the pen I can't argue, this is trully awesome, but I want to ask the owners if in time this can get scratches, scuffs etc? I don't know how the material from what is made last in time?

@therightadvisor, I don't ride bmw( but I am going to buy a 325 in the near future), or Honda,but I am in the 3rd year of the law school.

can you post some photos with your best looking ballpoints/fountain pens ? It would be nice if you share a part of your collections with us.

thanks


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## Therightadvisor

Ask and you shall receive. I'm certainly not a Fountain Pen "Purist." I enjoy owning all types of pens, but obviously I tend to favor Montblanc.

Picture 1 (Left to right)

Montblanc 144 Solitaire Doue Sterling Silver Guilloche Fountain
Montblanc 164 Solitaire Doue Sterling Silver Guilloche Ballpoint
Montblanc 163 Solitaire Sterling Silver Guilloche Rollerball
Montblanc 163 Solitaire Sterling Silver Guilloche Rollerball
Montblanc 164 Solitaire Sterling Silver Guilloche Ballpoint
Montblanc 163 Solitaire Sterling Silver Pure Silver Rollerball
Montblanc 163 Solitaire Sterling Silver Korn Rollerball
Montblanc 164 Solitaire Hematite Ballpoint
Montblanc 144 Solitaire Stainless Steel Fountain
Montblanc 164 Solitaire Stainless Steel Ballpoint
Montblanc Starwalker Cool Blue Ballpoint
Montblanc Starwalker Metal & Rubber Fineliner

Picture 2 (Top Tray)

Montblanc Bordeaux 166 Le Grand Document Marker
Montblanc Bordeaux 147 Le Grand Traveler Fountain
Montblanc Bordeaux 163 Classique Rollerball
Montblanc Bordeaux 164 Classique Ballpoint
Montblanc Noblesse Fountain Pen

Picture 2 (Bottom Tray)

Montblanc 146 Le Grand Fountain
Montblanc 146 Le Grand Fountain (monotone nib/ebonite feed)
Montblanc 161 Le Grand Ballpoint
Montblanc 161 Le Grand Ballpoint
Montblanc 164 Classique Ballpoint

Picture 3 

Montblanc 146 Le Grand Fountain
Montblanc 166 Le Grand Document Marker
Montblanc 147 Le Grand Traveler Fountain
Montblanc 147 Le Grand Traveler Fountain
Montblanc 162 Le Grand Rollerball
Montblanc 149 Diplomat Fountain
Montblanc 149 Diplomat Fountain
Montblanc 149 Diplomat Fountain

Picture 4

Montegrappa Miya Ballpoint
Cartier Diabolo Ballpoint
Montblanc Noblesse Oblige Fountain
Parker 95 Fountain
Sheaffer Prestige Targa Fountain
Sheaffer Snorkel Fountain
Waterman Phileas Rollerball
Waterman Expert I ballpoint
Waterman Expert I fountain
Parker Duofold Junior Fountain
Sheaffer Connaissuer Ballpoint

Not shown:
Montblanc 161 Le Grand Ballpoint
Montblanc 114 Mozart Fountain
Montblanc 161 Le Grand Unicef ballpoint
Montblanc 164 Classique ballpoint
Montblanc George Bernard Shaw Writer's Edition Mechanical Pencil
Sheaffer Snorkels (I have about 10 more at the house)
25-30 others that didn't make the pictures


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## ombladon

Thanks very much. You have a very nice Mont Blanc collection. I hope you are proud of it, as you invested a lot of money and time in it. May God let you increase you collection with other unique pieces!

please tell me, how do you keep, clean and take care of your Mont Blanc ballpoints? Do you do something special after you write with it, or just keep in a box to prevent collect dust( my question is relevant just for the ballpoint(s) that you actually use).
but regarding fountain pens, I heard that you have to be really gentle with it, how to keep fp after use? Do you keep the ink inside, or you prefer keep them empty?which is the best way to keep a fp?how you maintenance them?

P.S. I saw that you don't have engraved pens, may I ask why? Don't you intend to keep them forever in your collection, or it's just a hobby and sometime you will eventually quit?


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## Therightadvisor

ombladon said:


> Thanks very much. You have a very nice Mont Blanc collection. I hope you are proud of it, as you invested a lot of money and time in it. May God let you increase you collection with other unique pieces!
> 
> please tell me, how do you keep, clean and take care of your Mont Blanc ballpoints? Do you do something special after you write with it, or just keep in a box to prevent collect dust( my question is relevant just for the ballpoint(s) that you actually use).
> but regarding fountain pens, I heard that you have to be really gentle with it, how to keep fp after use? Do you keep the ink inside, or you prefer keep them empty?which is the best way to keep a fp?how you maintenance them?
> 
> P.S. I saw that you don't have engraved pens, may I ask why? Don't you intend to keep them forever in your collection, or it's just a hobby and sometime you will eventually quit?


It's evident in the pictures, but most of my pens have finger prints on them from normal use. If a pen gets dirty beyond that, I'll wipe it down with a polishing cloth or clean it with an alcohol-based solution.

Ballpoints/rollerballs really don't need much extra care. Every single ballpoint/rollerball I have is stored with a refill inside. I have close to 50 extra refills so when one runs out, I simply put another in. I buy most of my refills in bulk and I can usually get them for under $5/each. I have so many pens that the refills will usually dry out from age rather than use. I figure that $5/year for each pen that costs more than $400 brand new is a pretty reasonable cost of upkeep.
The majority of my fountain pens are stored without ink. I usually keep about 5-7 inked at one time. If a pen hasn't been sitting with ink for very long, I can usually flush it all out with a couple cycles of warm water. If that won't work I usually move to a soap/water solution and then an ammonia/water solution in extreme cases (usually 9 parts water 1 part ammonia).

Ink is cheap and I'd much rather buy another bottle of $15-20 ink than spend 30+ minutes flushing out a pen with dried/caked ink inside.

These pens are designed to last decades with proper care so it's very easy to care for and maintain them.


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## ombladon

Do you have insurance for all of your collection?all of your items were purchased brand new?


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## Therightadvisor

ombladon said:


> Do you have insurance for all of your collection?all of your items were purchased brand new?


Yes I have insurance on all my watches and pens.

As far as if my pens were purchased brand new? Some were, yes. However, I certainly never payed retail prices for them. I'm 25 years old and 2.5 years out of college. I started with much cheaper pens and moved my way up as my knowledge (and bank account) grew. To put it into perspective, less than two years ago, I had never even heard of Montblanc before. Now I've owned more than 100 of them and currently own almost 40.


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## ombladon

I wish I have been born where you did..


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## Therightadvisor

ombladon said:


> I wish I have been born where you did..


For what it's worth, one of the largest (if not the largest) pen collectors in the world actually lives in the Ukraine. I'd dare to say that his pen collection is worth more than $10million usd.


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## ombladon

In Ukraine and Russian are many many bilionars who appear in top 100 Forbes. This is not the same for Romania..anyway health is more important, so I hope you will grow your collection and enjoy it! Thanks again for photos.


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## Snoweagle

Therightadvisor said:


> It's evident in the pictures, but most of my pens have finger prints on them from normal use. If a pen gets dirty beyond that, I'll wipe it down with a polishing cloth or clean it with an alcohol-based solution.
> 
> Ballpoints/rollerballs really don't need much extra care. Every single ballpoint/rollerball I have is stored with a refill inside. I have close to 50 extra refills so when one runs out, I simply put another in. I buy most of my refills in bulk and I can usually get them for under $5/each. I have so many pens that the refills will usually dry out from age rather than use. I figure that $5/year for each pen that costs more than $400 brand new is a pretty reasonable cost of upkeep.
> The majority of my fountain pens are stored without ink. I usually keep about 5-7 inked at one time. If a pen hasn't been sitting with ink for very long, I can usually flush it all out with a couple cycles of warm water. If that won't work I usually move to a soap/water solution and then an ammonia/water solution in extreme cases (usually 9 parts water 1 part ammonia).
> 
> Ink is cheap and I'd much rather buy another bottle of $15-20 ink than spend 30+ minutes flushing out a pen with dried/caked ink inside.
> 
> These pens are designed to last decades with proper care so it's very easy to care for and maintain them.


My Le Grand 161 ballpoint have some marks on the barrel from taking in and out from my MB pen pouch, considered normal?


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## D N Ravenna

Snoweagle said:


> My Le Grand 161 ballpoint have some marks on the barrel from taking in and out from my MB pen pouch, considered normal?


That is quite normal. If you want your pens to not have scratches, then it is best no to use them. ;-)

Dan


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## Snoweagle

D N Ravenna said:


> That is quite normal. If you want your pens to not have scratches, then it is best no to use them. ;-)
> 
> Dan


Glad to hear that, so having 'battle' marks on them makes it more special and well-used. :-d


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## ombladon

Can you post some photos with scratches and mark on your pen?


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## Hatman14

I have the Mont Blanc le grand in platinum too, it is a great pen, my only advice would be maybe go for the smaller size if you write a lot, it would be easier to use as the le grand is a big pen, just my personal opinion, you may prefer a larger pen, I'm not saying it's too big but the size down would have been better for me.


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## ombladon

Therightadvisor said:


> Ask and you shall receive. I'm certainly not a Fountain Pen "Purist." I enjoy owning all types of pens, but obviously I tend to favor Montblanc.
> 
> Picture 1 (Left to right)
> 
> Montblanc 144 Solitaire Doue Sterling Silver Guilloche Fountain
> Montblanc 164 Solitaire Doue Sterling Silver Guilloche Ballpoint
> Montblanc 163 Solitaire Sterling Silver Guilloche Rollerball
> Montblanc 163 Solitaire Sterling Silver Guilloche Rollerball
> Montblanc 164 Solitaire Sterling Silver Guilloche Ballpoint
> Montblanc 163 Solitaire Sterling Silver Pure Silver Rollerball
> Montblanc 163 Solitaire Sterling Silver Korn Rollerball
> Montblanc 164 Solitaire Hematite Ballpoint
> Montblanc 144 Solitaire Stainless Steel Fountain
> Montblanc 164 Solitaire Stainless Steel Ballpoint
> Montblanc Starwalker Cool Blue Ballpoint
> Montblanc Starwalker Metal & Rubber Fineliner
> 
> Picture 2 (Top Tray)
> 
> Montblanc Bordeaux 166 Le Grand Document Marker
> Montblanc Bordeaux 147 Le Grand Traveler Fountain
> Montblanc Bordeaux 163 Classique Rollerball
> Montblanc Bordeaux 164 Classique Ballpoint
> Montblanc Noblesse Fountain Pen
> 
> Picture 2 (Bottom Tray)
> 
> Montblanc 146 Le Grand Fountain
> Montblanc 146 Le Grand Fountain (monotone nib/ebonite feed)
> Montblanc 161 Le Grand Ballpoint
> Montblanc 161 Le Grand Ballpoint
> Montblanc 164 Classique Ballpoint
> 
> Picture 3
> 
> Montblanc 146 Le Grand Fountain
> Montblanc 166 Le Grand Document Marker
> Montblanc 147 Le Grand Traveler Fountain
> Montblanc 147 Le Grand Traveler Fountain
> Montblanc 162 Le Grand Rollerball
> Montblanc 149 Diplomat Fountain
> Montblanc 149 Diplomat Fountain
> Montblanc 149 Diplomat Fountain
> 
> Picture 4
> 
> Montegrappa Miya Ballpoint
> Cartier Diabolo Ballpoint
> Montblanc Noblesse Oblige Fountain
> Parker 95 Fountain
> Sheaffer Prestige Targa Fountain
> Sheaffer Snorkel Fountain
> Waterman Phileas Rollerball
> Waterman Expert I ballpoint
> Waterman Expert I fountain
> Parker Duofold Junior Fountain
> Sheaffer Connaissuer Ballpoint
> 
> Not shown:
> Montblanc 161 Le Grand Ballpoint
> Montblanc 114 Mozart Fountain
> Montblanc 161 Le Grand Unicef ballpoint
> Montblanc 164 Classique ballpoint
> Montblanc George Bernard Shaw Writer's Edition Mechanical Pencil
> Sheaffer Snorkels (I have about 10 more at the house)
> 25-30 others that didn't make the pictures


Can you post 2-3 photos just with the legrande ballpoint and classique ballpoint?
a few member recommend me to get the classique one, which they said is more comfortable then the legrande? What to do? Because you have both of them, your opinion is priority for me.

thanks


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## Therightadvisor

Hatman14 said:


> I have the Mont Blanc le grand in platinum too, it is a great pen, my only advice would be maybe go for the smaller size if you write a lot, it would be easier to use as the le grand is a big pen, just my personal opinion, you may prefer a larger pen, I'm not saying it's too big but the size down would have been better for me.


Very interesting.

Obviously, it's a matter of what fits you personally. The 164 is Montblanc's best selling pen of all time so you're certainly not alone. I personally favor the 161 Le Grand 9/10 times. The only exception to that is when I keep a pen in my suit jacket pocket. The 164 or 163 is a much better "pocket pen."

Convenience- 164 simply for its smaller size
Overall value- 161 without a doubt
Best compromise- Solitaire 164



ombladon said:


> Can you post 2-3 photos just with the legrande ballpoint and classique ballpoint?
> a few member recommend me to get the classique one, which they said is more comfortable then the legrande? What to do? Because you have both of them, your opinion is priority for me.
> 
> thanks


The two major things to consider on this matter:
1. Size- Obviously the Le Grand is a larger pen. I would say that the classique is more of a "normal" sized pen. It fits in a shirt pocket fairly easy. The Le Grand is larger when compared side to side, but it's certainly not too big.

2. Quality- If you're comparing only the precious resin versions there is a HUGE difference in quality between the two. The 164 Classique has a much thinner barrel and is much more prone to cracking. In fact, my black 164 in the picture is cracked on the lower barrel. I should note that this is the pen I usually keep in my golf bag, and I bought it this was from a friend this way for rediculously cheap.

If your budget only allows you to afford the precious resin version of either pen, I'd go with the 161 Le Grand 10/10 times. It's a no brainer for me. I personally favor its larger size. However, even if you're on the fence about it, the quality is leaps and bounds better than the 164 classique.

Again, my 161 Le Grand is my go to pen. I use it for taking client notes or in appointments. Not only is it a better pen in terms of quality, but it fits my hand better. I'm not a terribly big guy at 5'10" 200 pounds and my hands are average to slightly above average in size. Rarely do I write longer than 30-45 minutes at a time, but I never have issues with my hand getting tired when writing with my 161.

To put the quality issue into perspective- Go search on ebay for the ebay user: Novasportster

Here is one of his/her listings and a perfect example of why I don't favor the 164/163/144 "precious resin" Montblanc pens:
Montblanc Meisterstuck Classique Black Cap Tube Parts for Scrap or Repair Gold | eBay

Of note- I may have understated the number of Montblanc pens I've owned now that I think about it. I buy and sell pens quite often to fund my collection and the number of pens I've owned of each model should tell you something. The pens I own very few of are the ones I don't sell. The pens I've owned many of are the ones that usually get sold as soon as soon as I get them in.

Classique 163/164/144 (Rollerball, Ballpoint, Fountain)
I've owned a total of around 100 of these. When I get a precious resin version it usually goes up for sale. The Doues (half metal/half resin) usually do also. However, I don't think I've ever sold a solitaire version. In my opinion get a Classique Solitaire or don't get one at all.

Meisterstuck Le Grand (161/162/146/147/149
My favorite line offered by Montblanc. I've owned 30-4- of them. I currently own about 20 of them. The ones I sold were simply in order to downsize my collection. In my opinion they're the best pens Montblanc pens for the value.

Boheme Line
The only Bohemes worth considering are the Rollerball or XL Fountain (fixed nib) in my opinion. The ballpoint is a tiny pen and simply too small for my hand. It seems to be meant more for a woman's hand. The retractable nib fountain is very prone to issues. I've personally seen three with problems and they require above average care. I've owned a total of 10-12 Bohemes and I may invest in a rollerball again soon.
Starwalker
If your budget allows it, you may also consider a metallic Starwalker pen. I've owned 12-15 and they're phenomenal pens. You should know that they're heavier than others, but that is easily countered by its weight distribution. In my opinion DO NOT BUY A PRECIOUS RESIN STARWALKER. It's my least favorite pen in the Montblanc lineup.

Conclusion
My Top 5 (In order)- Under $500


Meisterstuck 161 Le Grand Ballpoint
Meisterstuck 162 Le Grand Rollerball
Starwalker Metal and Rubber (or similar pattern)
Boheme Rollerball
 Johannes Brahms Special Edition

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## Hatman14

Therightadvisor said:


> Very interesting.
> 
> Obviously, it's a matter of what fits you personally. The 164 is Montblanc's best selling pen of all time so you're certainly not alone. I personally favor the 161 Le Grand 9/10 times. The only exception to that is when I keep a pen in my suit jacket pocket. The 164 or 163 is a much better "pocket pen."
> 
> Convenience- 164 simply for its smaller size
> Overall value- 161 without a doubt
> Best compromise- Solitaire 164
> 
> Definitely, it is down to what fits you best, I don't think the le grand is too big, I use mine every day, I love it,I don't put it in a pocket so that's not an issue, it's in my drawer at work in the week and in a bag the weekend, I just think the smaller one would have been better for me so thought it was something to consider, I just went in wanting one and bought the bigger of the two, think that was just part of being ask
> I also bought the rollerball the next month which I couldn't get on with, being left handed the ink consistency looked rubbish as I write at an angle, it went thick and thin! I ended up giving it to a friend last Christmas and he loves it, its one thing I regret buying!


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## ombladon

Thanks again for sharing your experience. I will go for a le grande 161.
but what can you tell me about this model? Do you like it? I think is one of the best looking fountain pens
I don't want for now a fountain pen because I want first to test the quality of Mont Blanc ballpoints, to see if it is like others says, and I think for a fountain pen I should visit a Mont Blanc shop, cause I saw that there are different size( fine, extra broad, medium etc.), but for now legrande will be fine.

About refils, for the legrande model, what size do you usually use and you think is best looking on the paper( medium, broad, fine) ?

Writing Instruments Bohème Pirouette Lilas Fountain Pen | Montblanc


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## ombladon

The right advisor i still wait for your opinion.


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## ombladon

Today when looked very close to the top at the meisterstuck le grande ballpoint golden version I saw that the refill top is golden like it supposed to be on a golden/black pen, but when I searched for refills for this version, I saw that the top of the refill was silver...so silver won't look nice on a golden/black pen. Can you please tell me what to do? I really want the golden/black model( in fact I want it so bad as this is the only ballpoint that I would buy).


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## Therightadvisor

ombladon said:


> Thanks again for sharing your experience. I will go for a le grande 161.
> but what can you tell me about this model? Do you like it? I think is one of the best looking fountain pens
> I don't want for now a fountain pen because I want first to test the quality of Mont Blanc ballpoints, to see if it is like others says, and I think for a fountain pen I should visit a Mont Blanc shop, cause I saw that there are different size( fine, extra broad, medium etc.), but for now legrande will be fine.
> 
> About refils, for the legrande model, what size do you usually use and you think is best looking on the paper( medium, broad, fine) ?
> 
> Writing Instruments Bohème Pirouette Lilas Fountain Pen | Montblanc


I had actually typed out a response the other day and got pulled away to a meeting and forgot. My apologies.

The Boheme Fountain Pen you are asking about is one of the retractable nibbed pens I was talking about. I agree it is a beautiful pen however:


The mechanism that retracts the pen is prone to failure. I have seen three in person with this issue. The issue can largely be avoided by storing the pen properly without ink. Half of the time, ink gets caked inside the pen which causes the mechanism to become less smooth.
The Boheme pens are cartridge fillers. There's nothing wrong with that, but you should be aware. Personally, if I'm going to spend $1000+ on a fountain pen, I'd want it to have an ink filler that utilizes a piston mechanism (like the 146 and 149 pens).
The pen is also subject to ink flow issues. A former coworker of mine had experience with this. He sent his back to be serviced on two occasions and still had trouble with it. I have seen other people online post similar experiences about this ink flow issue.

Cosmetically I give it a 10/10. Mechanically, I give it about a 3/10 considering that it's one of the worst performing pens at its price point. It's a cool idea based on a 100 year old design, but it was executed poorly with the Boheme (in my opinion).

As far as refills: I personally favor the broad/bold tipped refills. You'll find that many people share the same preference.

Of note:
Rollerballs: I prefer Fine-Medium tipped refills. I use these pens when I need to write very small and concise. I will note that the Le Grand rollerball refills are physically larger. Perhaps it's just in my head, but they seem to function better than the normal sized rollerball refill

Ballpoints: Again, I strongly prefer the Broad Tipped Refills. 90% of my ballpoints have broad tipped refills in them. It may be in my head, but for some reason the broad tipped refills seem to function better than the fine-medium point refills.

Fountain Pens: Oddly enough, I prefer fine-medium tipped fountain pens. Montblanc nibs tend to write thicker than other brands. The larger modern pens also seem to write "wetter." Vintage Montblanc pens from the 70s or older tend to be rated more correctly (compared to other brands). For instance: my 146 mono-toned fine nib from the 70s writes a very thin line as a fine nib should. My fine nib 149 from the early 2000s puts a thicker line down onto paper.



ombladon said:


> Today when looked very close to the top at the meisterstuck le grande ballpoint golden version I saw that the refill top is golden like it supposed to be on a golden/black pen, but when I searched for refills for this version, I saw that the top of the refill was silver...so silver won't look nice on a golden/black pen. Can you please tell me what to do? I really want the golden/black model( in fact I want it so bad as this is the only ballpoint that I would buy).


To be quite honest, I never even gave this any thought until now. The older refills are made of brass (I assume) which make them look golden. I assume the modern refills are stainless steel which make them look silver.
I understand what you're saying completely. However, having owned roughly 100 Montblanc ballpoints I've never once gave this any thought. While I agree that the colors are different, it's such a small difference, that I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. To me, it's a non-issue.


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## eamonn345

Rather than a ballpoint, I would go for a Mont Blanc fountain pen.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## scuttle

Therightadvisor said:


> Build quality: Again, I'm speaking only of the Montblanc pens I have personal experience with. The build quality is very good. There are certainly cheaper pens with comparable (if not better) build quality, but these are luxury pens and the premium does not come from the build quality. If you're the kind of person who wears Wrangler jeans and drives a Honda Civic because they're "cheap and reliable" then these probably aren't for you. If you're the kind of person who wears a $1000+ suit and drives a BMW you may find value with pens at this price range.


The MB is made out of plastic. More prceisely, it's made of perspex with tiny pieces of glass added for shine. Unfortunately this makes the material brittle, but it looks good, the margins are fantastic, you don't have the long curing time that ebonite or celluloid require, and because plastic is light you can make huge look-at-me pens. You can get much better build quality for a lot less money - eg the Pentel Kerry Pencil is less than $50 and is quite astonishing. The same money as the MB ballpoint will buy a Pilot Vanishing Point fp in abalone finish - an exquisite hand finished pen with a complex mechanism (it's a retractible fountain pen!) for the same price as a plastic tube.



> If you're the kind of person that buys solely for build quality,


It's a plastic tube. That's it. You perceive that its high quality because it is expensive, but you haven't been able to write one word about what does make it high quality. This is how branding works: you pump ad money in, and the output is consumers who will pay the same for a mass produced suit with the right labels as more knowledgable ones for a tailored suit, or who pay ebonite and urushi money for a plastic tube.



> 99% of people have heard of Montblanc. They have a rich history of making luxury pens which is partially why they can demand the prices they do.


They used to make great pens - probably no better than Sheaffer or Parker at their best (and probably not as good as a Snorkel or 51) and not as good as the best modern Japanese. But modern MB has almost nothing in common with the Ancien Regime; they don't even produce a pen with MB's best and most distinctive nib design, the "folded wing nib". These are great because they stay wet uncapped, but they look less flashly than conventional nibs, so for the sort of consumer that psueodo-MB aim for, they are out. Ironically I have two pens with modern versions of this nib - one is a $10 Japanese semi-disposeable, but it contains more of MB's heritage than any of the pens the modern company makes - sort of like getting a copy of a classic Rolex watch mech in a Chinese watch after Rolex has been bought out and ETA-ized.


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## Therightadvisor

eamonn345 said:


> Rather than a ballpoint, I would go for a Mont Blanc fountain pen.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


The very first sentence of his first post specifically says that he wants a ballpoint rather than a fountain pen. I own many of both (bps, rbs, and fps) and each serves a specific purpose.


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## scuttle

Therightadvisor said:


> I had actually typed out a response the other day and got pulled away to a meeting and forgot. My apologies.
> 
> The Boheme Fountain Pen you are asking about is one of the retractable nibbed pens I was talking about. I agree it is a beautiful pen however:
> 
> 
> The mechanism that retracts the pen is prone to failure. I have seen three in person with this issue. The issue can largely be avoided by storing the pen properly without ink. Half of the time, ink gets caked inside the pen which causes the mechanism to become less smooth.
> The Boheme pens are cartridge fillers. There's nothing wrong with that, but you should be aware. Personally, if I'm going to spend $1000+ on a fountain pen, I'd want it to have an ink filler that utilizes a piston mechanism (like the 146 and 149 pens).
> The pen is also subject to ink flow issues. A former coworker of mine had experience with this. He sent his back to be serviced on two occasions and still had trouble with it. I have seen other people online post similar experiences about this ink flow issue.


Buy a Pilot Vanishing Point. Problem free, super respected among serious colectors (unlike modern MBs), interchangeable nibs, and if you want to shock and awe, available in abaolone finish.

Otoh, people won't point and look and say "Oh, he's got a MB!" Which is because it is a pen, not a cheap to make plastic tube loosely attached to an expensive marketing campaign.


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## Therightadvisor

scuttle said:


> Buy a Pilot Vanishing Point. Problem free, super respected among serious colectors (unlike modern MBs), interchangeable nibs, and if you want to shock and awe, available in abaolone finish.
> 
> Otoh, people won't point and look and say "Oh, he's got a MB!" Which is because it is a pen, not a cheap to make plastic tube loosely attached to an expensive marketing campaign.


The Vanishing Point is a well-respected pen no doubt. Very few people would disagree with that.

As pen collectors, we are often confronted by people who don't understand why we would spend $20 on a pen, much less more $1000. Why maintain that same ignorant thought process about someone else's collection? By making those kinds of comments, you're no better than them.

You don't have to like a specific brand or pen. We all have different tastes and choose to spend our money on whatever makes us happy.

As a (less-than-serious) collector. I find value in my modern Montblanc pens. I can easily justify their value to myself and others. Not everyone has to agree with me, but that's why we all collect different things. When I spend my money, I buy what makes me happy. When I'm spending your money, I'll let you pick out whatever you'd like.


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## scuttle

Therightadvisor said:


> The Vanishing Point is a well-respected pen no doubt. Very few people would disagree with that.
> 
> As pen collectors, we are often confronted by people who don't understand why we would spend $20 on a pen, much less more $1000. Why maintain that same ignorant thought process about someone else's collection? By making those kinds of comments, you're no better than them.


This is silly. If someone spent $2000 on a disposeable Bic then wouldn't you be astonished and tell them that they could get one for 25c? There is a HUGE difference between saying you shouldn't spend $500 for $500 worth of pen (urushi over ebonite, ebonite feed, hand tuned nib) and that another $500 pen (a plastic tube with a standard retractible mech and ballpoint refill) isn't worth the moolah.

Even sillier, I wasn't the one top raise the question of value and quality: that was the person with the silly jeans comparison!



> You don't have to like a specific brand or pen. We all have different tastes and choose to spend our money on whatever makes us happy.
> 
> As a (less-than-serious) collector. I find value in my modern Montblanc pens. I can easily justify their value to myself and others. Not everyone has to agree with me, but that's why we all collect different things. When I spend my money, I buy what makes me happy. When I'm spending your money, I'll let you pick out whatever you'd like.


That's fine. But you shouldn't expect that everyone else on the Internet will edit what they write to meet your approval.

Especially as this thread will be looked at by people thinking of buying MB's who deserve something better than "Spending $500 on a plastic pen made me feel good and I wish to validate myself." Objectively:

- Modern MB has little to do with the historical brand

- Modern MB models often look like old ones but have dumbed down cheapened construction - eg the Meisterstruck used to be celluloid over brass and is now plastic

- MB "precious resin" is in fact injection moulded plastic

- MB fountain pen nibs are of second rate quality; you can buy a better nib on a $10-20 pen.

- MB "precious resin" is extremely fragile - one of the worst materials to make a pen out of from every pov except getting money out of the sap in the store:

_"Precious resin" redux - The Montblanc Forum - The Fountain Pen Network

From what I know, all this talk about dyed tree sap is completely off the mark. I toured the Hamburg factory several years ago; the "precious resin" is injection molded, definitely not celluloid, is purely synthetic, and would seem to include glass as a filler. What was interesting to those of us in the tour was the almost obsessive pride of the Montblanc execs in the surface finish of their pens. It seemed clear to us that this quest for a hard mirror polish had led the company astray: the pens (and pencils) were beautiful, but glass-fragile. I believe there has been some re-engineering to reduce breakage in the years since, but I do not know if the actual material has been altered to reduce its brittleness.
_
..The "we have made our pens less fragile" is something MB says to collectors every few years.
_
From somone who is well versed in the Plastics industry, there is a very good reason why MB does not do any colors in its pens. Black resin will contaminate the injection barrel on the molding machine. To switch to another color costs money, as the machine must be purged thoroughly to ensure that the black does not show up in say, the orange or Mandarin Yellow 149 that we all desire. To run color efficiently one should really dedicate a machine to that color. Additionally, colors in injection moldng require colorants which must be mixed with the base resin. Mixers are then required to mix the resin prior to drying it.

So to make colored MB pens in great numbers they would have to buy clear or natural resin and colorant, extra purging material, mixers and suffer longer changeovers. Being that MB is a German company (and I have spent a fair number of years working for German companies) this would be illogical to them, thus it will not happen.

Now, wait you say, the limited editions come in colors. What about that?? Most likely a sample shop setup for small runs. What is the run size for a MB limited edition, Voltaire was 20K pcs. Imagine a 4 cavity mold running at about 1 minute per shot. So, 4 parts per minute, 240/ hour, 1920/ shift and say they run on 90% efficiency. So as a rough estimate they can produce 5200pcs or so in a 3 shift plant. That is 4 days people to mold the "limited editions". Barrels, having the most mass would have the longest cycle time, caps and blind caps would be way faster.

Glass filled material, as stated before is certainly what is being used for the pens. It can be very strong in tensile strength, but is lousy at impact and notch resistance. As an aside, glass filled material is very sensitive to moisture. It will be very strong when moist, but will be weak when dry. 
_
You might not like it, but this is the sort of objective fact-based discussion that people thinking of spending $500 on a pen deserve. MBs are a status symbol because of lots of marketing, European production and what I'd call "pseudo-heritage," but they're also super cheaply produced and fragile and generally can't match the quality of a well-chosen $50 pen. Obscenely, for the same sort of money you could have the pen equivalent of a Patek Phillipe:

A Visit to the Nakaya Fountain Pen Company


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## scuttle

Now, in other threads I have made a case that Rolex charge an awful lot of mark-up for their watches. (Given that a Sub is $8000 and the inflation adjusted price deduced from the 60s would be $1700, and that manufacturing costs will have fallen with automation, I think this can't sanely be argued against.) But Rolex do sell the best watch in the world of its type - their mech is robust, has good positional independence and changes date fast, and their standards of finish are high. 

This is not the case with MB: they charge Rolex money, but deliver a seriously problematic product. If you really want an excellent fp, then look at restored vintage pens and modern Pilot, Namiiki, Sailor, Nakaya. If you want a ballpoint... well, the refill determines the writing quality, so I would only pay serious money for a genuinely precious material. Which injected glass-filled plastic is not.


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## scuttle

..Pelikan, Vsconti etc are also a better better than MB, but they all buy in Bock nibs. Which are better than MB, but still not as good as vintage Parker/Sheaffer/Esterbrook or modern Japanese.


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## Therightadvisor

This may by shocking to read, but I agree with you completely: In terms of quality Pelikan, Visconti, Pilot/Namiki, Nayaka, and Sailor are all better made pens when comparing their initial price. 

However, once again I can easily justify why I collect Montblanc pens. When you factor in the true cost of ownership, Montblanc pens are by far the best value for me personally.

The pens you listed are truly "Collector's pens." The average person has never heard of those brands and the market for them is much smaller. The means that when buying used, you have less choices available and you'll probably be buying from another collector. As a result, the selling prices have very little variation.

Looking at Montblanc, I still consider them collector's pens, but they are also a "rich man's pen" which I consider to be different type of owner. When buying used, you have two markets: rich people selling their pens, and collectors. I personally buy from the rich people. What that means is that I buy BELOW fair used market value from people who don't know what their pen is worth.

To put that into perspective:
-I've bought four Montblanc 149s for $200 or less in perfect working condition
-I've bought at least 50 Montblanc pens for $100 or less in perfect working condition
-I've bought a Montblanc 100th Anniversary for $46 shipped brand new in the box and sold it for $770
-I've bought a 164 ballpoint for $20 shipped
-I've bought a 144 stainless steel solitaire and a 161 Le Grand ballpoint for $12.50 each
-I've bought five Sterling Silver solitaire pens for $125 or less

When you factor in the prices I pay, it actually costs me money NOT owning Montblanc pens. That may sound silly, but in many ways it's true.

I also own plenty of Sheaffer Snorkels, Parker 51s, and other "workhorse" pens. I certainly respect their quality and writing experience expecially considering their fair market prices.

And for the record, you didn't offend me one bit. I get where you're coming from and I respect your opinions. I completely understand that many collectors don't understand why people pay retail prices for their Montblanc pens......because I feel the same way. At $915 there's no way in hell I'm buying a Montblanc 149. However, at $150 I'm buying every single time.


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## Therightadvisor

I’ll even bother to mention this if you’ve never seen my previous comments:
1.) I think the Meisterstuck Classique precious resin pens are sad excuses for $400+ pens
-Thin barrels that crack if you look at them wrong
-Cheap feeds and sections that are prone to ink flow issues
-The trim ring finish on the section often chips or deteriorates after only a few years
-Thin undersized nibs that rarely write well

2.) The starwalker precious resin pens are no different:
-Thin barrels and poor quality control
-The precious resin ballpoint mechanisms feel like you’re writing with a $50 pen

3.) Boheme Fountain Pen
-The retractable nib is good in theory, but it’s prone to failure
-I’ve seen several with chronic ink flow issues
-The resin ballpoint pens are tiny, cheap, and overvalued


That’s why my Meisterstuck Le Grand pens and Classique Solitaires comprise the majority of my collection.
-Thicker barrels (Le Grand line)
-Metallic bodies (solitaire line)
-Piston filler mechanism (146/149)
-Larger nibs (146/147/149)

The move from celluloid to plastic was a quality control issue. I’ve owned several celluloid Montblanc pens and they shrink over time given their material nature.
The vintage Montblanc nibs are also much more pliable and “springy” which makes for a much more enjoyable writing experience.

The 144 used to be a piston filler as well. Montblanc eventually changed it to a C/C filler which was basically the equivalent of Omega falling victim to the quartz movement fad of the 70s and 80s. 

There's a reason why the classique precious resin pens are so commonly faked. They're cheap, simple, and easy to replicate. A well made pen should be very tough to replicate due to either its design, complexity, or precision of its parts.


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## scuttle

Therightadvisor said:


> This may by shocking to read, but I agree with you completely: In terms of quality Pelikan, Visconti, Pilot/Namiki, Nayaka, and Sailor are all better made pens when comparing their initial price.
> 
> However, once again I can easily justify why I collect Montblanc pens. When you factor in the true cost of ownership, Montblanc pens are by far the best value for me personally.
> 
> The pens you listed are truly "Collector's pens." The average person has never heard of those brands and the market for them is much smaller. The means that when buying used, you have less choices available and you'll probably be buying from another collector. As a result, the selling prices have very little variation.
> 
> Looking at Montblanc, I still consider them collector's pens, but they are also a "rich man's pen" which I consider to be different type of owner. When buying used, you have two markets: rich people selling their pens, and collectors. I personally buy from the rich people. What that means is that I buy BELOW fair used market value from people who don't know what their pen is worth.


I'd suggest that there are at least two problems with this:

1. Eventually the prices of such goods will always collapse. If you're holding a serious investment in tulip bulbs, pogs, strangely coloured G-Shocks, or plastic tubes, you will take a loss at this point. People always underestimate this type of "black swan" risk. The problem you have with an modern collectible as opposed to a vintage one is that (doh) it is still in production and therefore the manufacturer controls scarcity. This NEVER works out for the collector - at some point the brand owner will over-exploit, especially if they are a publicly traded company.

2. Modern MBs are extremely delicate - you can take a big loss from dropping a pen or even using a twist action mech too many times. (The torque has been known to cause barrel cracking by itself.)



> -I've bought four Montblanc 149s for $200 or less in perfect working condition
> -I've bought at least 50 Montblanc pens for $100 or less in perfect working condition
> -I've bought a Montblanc 100th Anniversary for $46 shipped brand new in the box and sold it for $770
> -I've bought a 164 ballpoint for $20 shipped
> -I've bought a 144 stainless steel solitaire and a 161 Le Grand ballpoint for $12.50 each
> -I've bought five Sterling Silver solitaire pens for $125 or less
> 
> When you factor in the prices I pay, it actually costs me money NOT owning Montblanc pens. That may sound silly, but in many ways it's true.


If you're good at finding anything at below market price and can re-sell it, then you should certainly do so! But I think you're a special case, and I'd argue that the fundamentals are such that even you should regard an MB as a risky investment in the longterm.



> And for the record, you didn't offend me one bit. I get where you're coming from and I respect your opinions. I completely understand that many collectors don't understand why people pay retail prices for their Montblanc pens......because I feel the same way. At $915 there's no way in hell I'm buying a Montblanc 149. However, at $150 I'm buying every single time.


I shall certainly do the same if I have the chance - for re-sale. But even at $150, you can get a much better fountain pen; $150 will buy a new Pilot VP or a Sailor 1911, two 1930s Sheaffer Balances, or half a dozen vintage Esterbrooks or new Platinum Plaisirs (which use that vintage MB nib design, have possibly the tightest cap seal of any pen ever made, and an annodized finished metal body that seems to be impervious to scratches.)

(..I'm a bit puzzled where you buy MBs at a such a discount in large numbers; I thought that everyone just threw whatever they wanted to get rid of on ebay these days and let the market decide the price... But well done!)


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## scuttle

Therightadvisor said:


> The move from celluloid to plastic was a quality control issue. I've owned several celluloid Montblanc pens and they shrink over time given their material nature.


My 1930s pens are fine: this sounds as if MB weren't waiting for their celluloid to cure.



> The vintage Montblanc nibs are also much more pliable and "springy" which makes for a much more enjoyable writing experience.


This is very much a question of taste - I like very hard nibs like the Sheaffer Triumph. It sounds me like you might enjoy the modern Namiki Falcon?



> There's a reason why the classique precious resin pens are so commonly faked. They're cheap, simple, and easy to replicate. A well made pen should be very tough to replicate due to either its design, complexity, or precision of its parts.


I really don't think that MB should be allowed to use the term "precious resin": it's deceptive marketing. It's simply plastic with some powdered glass for shine. Precious resin implies something inherently rare and expensive rather than, basically, solidified glue.

(You'll probably remember MB's legal problems when they were selling diamond encrusted pens for a every high price without revealing that the stones they used were worthless industrial grade ones that had been chemically cleaned up: NOT the most trustworthy corporation in the world!)


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## D N Ravenna

This thread appears to have run its course. No one is interested in posting about one BP versus another. I will keep the thread open in case anyone wishes to to post about the topic matter. Another off-topic post will result in the thread being closed.

Dan


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## Benjamin Chin

ombladon said:


> I really want to buy a ballpoint and not a fountain pen cause I write a lot at the law school and I want a ready to go pen. I know that fountain pens need special attention regarding cleaning etc. and I don't have time for it, so I want a ballpoint. Few days ago I was settle just on the Mont Blanc model, but accidentally I found caran d'ache writing instruments, so I please owners of them please reply me and tell me from your experience which is a better brand and last forever?
> 
> I like Mont Blanc cause they will engrave you for free and the meisterstuck legrande is very very beautiful.
> 
> but I also like caran d'ache because they offer international lifetime warranty( which Mont Blanc doesn't offer) and the caran d'ache Goliath refil quarantee 600 A4 sheets of paper. I don't have such kind of information regarding the Mont Blanc model.
> 
> please help me!!
> 
> these are the models I want
> 
> Writing Instruments Meisterstück LeGrand Ballpoint Pen | Montblanc
> 
> Ballpoint Pen Leman Ebony Black Gold-plated Finishing


 Since you will eventually become a lawyer, I suggest you get the Montblanc as it gives you the recognition that you will need.

Please do not get me wrong, I actually prefer the overall finishing and writing performance of the Caran d'Ache ( Cd'A ) ballpoint. In my personal experience, my Cd'A ballpoint writes far more smoothly than my Montblanc ballpoint. The writing tip of the Cd'A ballpoint can withstand shock when dropped onto concrete floor but not as much for Montblanc. The Cd'A writes with a clean writing tip but my Montblanc tip gets dirty with ink blot.

For writing pleasure and quality I go for Cd'A; for dress accessory I would go for Montblanc.

You mentioned about the lifetime warranty of the Cd'A, which Monblanc does not offer. In the past (20 years ago), Montblanc used to also offer the same lifetime warranty for its Meisterstuck collection but due to many instances of resin barrel cracks, Montblanc had since stopped the practice of giving lifetime warranty or it will need to give free barrel replacements at its own cost. The resin body of the Montblanc is vulnerable to cracks. This would not be profitable for Montblanc to continue giving lifetime warranty. As for Cd'A, the lifetime warranty applies to material & engineering defects, it does not cover the wear and tear from use. So if you drop the pen and the lacquer gets scratches or peels off, it will not be covered by the warranty.

Since you only intend to buy one of those 2 "expensive" pens, I would say buy the Montblanc as your professional dressing pen to enhance your professional image. Then buy another "cheaper" Cd'A pen that uses that same famous giant Cd'A Goliath cartridge for your daily writing to give you the exceptional writing comfort, smoothness, and durability. Getting the additional cheaper Cd'A pen also means you do not need to worry about damage or replacement cost. This way, you get to enjoy the best of 2 worlds.

Affordable Cd'A ballpoint pens that use the same Goliath cartridge as the Cd'A Leman include the *ALCHEMIX*, *DUNAS*,and *849* collections. See link below.

Link:
CARAN d'ACHE > L'Office > Alchemix > Alchemix


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## ombladon

I must confence myself and tell that I bought a hommage a Fredric Chopin 145 fountain pen and a le grand ballpoint mont blanc. Both are suck a beauty. They are really some masterpieces.. I don't regret this choice. Looking for a 149, or 146 for my next ballpoint and for a UNICEF claisque ballpoint.


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## Nokie

> I must confence myself and tell that I bought a hommage a Fredric Chopin 145 fountain pen and a le grand ballpoint mont blanc. Both are suck a beauty. They are really some masterpieces.. I don't regret this choice. Looking for a 149, or 146 for my next ballpoint and for a UNICEF claisque ballpoint.


Nice choices.


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## agentdaffy007

May i suggest you to get the MB 149. It is a beautiful fountain pen. As for a ballpoint that you can lend to others without having fear of people dropping it, get the Caran d'Ache Ecridor Ballpoint. They are superb and because of it, i hardly use my MB Legrand Ballpoint and my Starwalker Rollerball Rubber/Metal grid.


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## ombladon

I use my le grande for daily writing( have change,the refil with a broad and It's very cool). Also bought a starwalker mechanical pencil which I use very much at work. I hope to buy a Clasique ballpoint, and I know the mb 149 is the Graal, but to expensive right now.


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## Snoweagle

ombladon said:


> I use my le grande for daily writing( have change,the refil with a broad and It's very cool). Also bought a starwalker mechanical pencil which I use very much at work. I hope to buy a Clasique ballpoint, and I know the mb 149 is the Graal, but to expensive right now.


My Le Grand originally came with a broad tip and it used up pretty quickly, so I changed to a medium one instead. Yes I also looked at the 149 but around SGD1100 and SGD1180 for the 90 years model, it's way off my budget.


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