# Thoughts on Bell & Ross?



## automatik

Hello.
Just wondering how everyone feels about the quality/accuracy of Bell & Ross timepieces, especially models OTHER THAN the BR line (because I have seen quite a few posts on BR-instrument models and not others such as the Type Professionnelle, Classic and Vintage collections).

I enjoy the look of the Vintage/Geneve series, especially the 120/126. The only problem I find with them is the 39mm width, considering many WISs prefer 40+mm timepieces.

Thought this post might spark some fresh discussion on this forum|>
Have a great monday!


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## Watchbreath

When the line was pulled from my former store, there wasn't any tears or
gripes.


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## Aqua Spearo

Bell & Ross past...new brand struggling for identity

Bell & Ross current, hottest new watch brand on the market.

Too bad they pulled them for the tourneu in San Jose on santana row.. now they just have an overstock of corum and assorted other crap.. yuck

The older stuff is just alterations of basic Sinn watches while the company attempted to define itself... The instrument series defines the companies image, which has finally been discovered.

Strong commitment to advertising, edgy styling,superior fit and finish, rock hard cases and the use of robust and proven movements :-! Im passionate about the brand and wear its going.. that new white ceramic watch has all the girls talking.


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## kkibbey

I can say that a PVD 46 mm Chrono is in my _near(year) _future:-!

I tried one on at a local dealer, all most pulled the trigger but I decided I wanted PVD not stainless.b-)


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## watch-man7777

I really want to like Bell and Ross, but I feel they're a very good fashion brand now compared to what they used to be. I would spend my thousands elsewhere.


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## Aqua Spearo

watch-man7777 said:


> I really want to like Bell and Ross, but I feel they're a very good fashion brand now compared to what they used to be. I would spend my thousands elsewhere.


fashion brands use quartz movements ( movada)... I dont see bell & ross dumbing down their watches for the sake of sales like omega :-d ... but then again, they look up to the marketing techniques of rolex, and the visual appeal of panerai.. If they are succesful long term, I believe they would attemp to transition to in house movements like panerai is attempting, this is a long process that take massive investment.


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## OmegaSeiko

I love almost every model they make. I would be forced to get a smaller one if I ever got one, but they have some lesser known styles that still make a huge impression on me.


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## cdvma

BR03 is definitely next on my hit list. I love the look which is also why I got my Debaufre Airforce. Its also 11mm thick IIRC so its a small presence in feel but a big presence in look. Now if the nylon strap was only sized so it can fit a 6.75" wrist without alteration


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## watch-man7777

Aqua Spearo said:


> fashion brands use quartz movements ( movada)... I dont see bell & ross dumbing down their watches for the sake of sales like omega :-d ... but then again, they look up to the marketing techniques of rolex, and the visual appeal of panerai.. If they are succesful long term, I believe they would attemp to transition to in house movements like panerai is attempting, this is a long process that take massive investment.


You obviously have your opinions too. I don't believe there is a book that says fashion brands must have quartz movements. Look at Boucheron or Mauboussin, they use ETA movements, but most would consider them to be fashion brands.


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## Aqua Spearo

..fashion brand :-x











watch-man7777 said:


> You obviously have your opinions too. I don't believe there is a book that says fashion brands must have quartz movements. Look at Boucheron or Mauboussin, they use ETA movements, but most would consider them to be fashion brands.


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## obie

don't care for their design, never have. I'll stick to my fashion watches.


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## dbluefish

I always think "Bell & Howell" when i hear their name! Not my cup of tea!

paul<|


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## weavin

Aqua Spearo said:


> I dont see bell & ross dumbing down their watches for the sake of sales like omega :-d


lol. You didn't actually talk yourself into believing that did you? Or was it more of a "hit me and ill hit ya back" deal to watch-man7777?

Anyway, I personally only like 1 model that BR have come up with. Thats the BR-02. And when I say I like it, I really really like it. The rest are mostly, IMO, just a Sinn dial on a square lump that says look at me I am huge and trendy. Which is fine. There is obviously a huge target market there, and more power to them.


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## RedBaronF2001

I, too, feel that Bell & Ross is a brand to be taken seriously now. They looked to Sinn in the past for help building the brand and now they are on their own. Smarter folks in the Jewelry/Watch business see the rise of the Bell & Ross brand and they investing in them (Chanel, for example). 

There are many brands that polarize folks and this is one of them.

I urge those who have only seen photos to go hold one in your hand and try it on before forming an opinion. I currently only own one B&R (I did have two), but my next big purchase will be a BR 01 series chronograph. I looked at one this week and the fit and finish is top notch and on par with the "big boys." 

In addition to making "fashion" watches they do make serious watches for professionals.


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## Aqua Spearo

you clearly have it out for them.. but i doubt you have ever tried one let alone held one.

I think most of those watches in your collection are exception value and sweet watches, but its nice owning something thats being recognized outside of watch forums. You can also place them right next to a pam and tell the same exceptional finishing was applied.

I undestand the first watch is a unique shape that is definately not for everyone.. however the diving watch appears to have swayed over others... what will their next watch be? maybe it will be the one to finally convince you. I think its fun to watch something come of age instead of being force fed the same watches my grandparents were wearing.



dbluefish said:


> I always think "Bell & Howell" when i hear their name! Not my cup of tea!
> 
> paul<|


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## obie

Its just a watch, some don't like, some do. so on that note, lets change the tone to a light discussion. consider that my mod duties for today.


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## Aqua Spearo

agreed... edgy designs are way too out there for conservative wearers...I think they are on the right track though... maybe they will make a classic that sings to everyone one day.



yamahaki said:


> Its just a watch, some don't like, some do. so on that note, lets change the tone to a light discussion. consider that my mod duties for today.


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## obie

I'm sure they will. I happen to like some of there older stuff alot. its a great company thats moving forward. at least we like cool cars:-d


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## buckallred

Extremely overpriced.

Sinn is just much better, for my money.


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## RedBaronF2001

buckallred said:


> Extremely overpriced.


The same can be said for many other brands.


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## Dieselgeek

The same can pretty much be said for ANY brand really. I mean other than Casio Timex etc etc. Even then some one could buy a $5 watch at the Dollar store.


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## obie

I don't either brand is over priced. I bought 3 sinn u1's. Good price. If I really liked the B&R, I'd buy one. I think gas is over priced, but I need it so I have to pay for it.


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## PShow

I know folks may not like the look and style of these watches but come on now. Please don't go comparing these watches to Casio, Timex etc. I found the Bell&Ross to keep very accurate time. I also got a great deal of compliments on the watch and knew that I didn't have the same watch as the other folks in the area.


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## jimyritz

I think Bell and Ross make solid watches--some of their styles might not be for everyone but to say they are a fashion watch is a bit off base...


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## OmegaSeiko

I think the term "fashion watches" has a negative connotation, or at least may run on the assumption that they have quartz movements (or maybe thy is just my assumption). Perhaps, because the BR line has such a unique style, ut us "fashion", but I wouldn't put it in the same category as Michael Cors or even Chanel as far as styling goes (is Hermes a fashion watch?) in my opinion, we wouldn't be having this discussion if Bell & Ross didn't make the squared off BR instrument line. I think their other pieces fit my ideal, and have an IWC or Foetis simplicity to them.


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## Aqua Spearo

:rodekaartyou guys that say "overpriced" really dont have a leg to stand on here, I do pricing and analysis for a living... 
The watch brands that are a true "value" i.e. Sinn and Doxa, dont even have real distribution, inventory or advertising in the united states.. when has doxa ever been advertised in an american mainstream magazine? Advertising and brand name cost money to build.. look at rolex, you think the watch is actually worth the sum of its material parts? Its also been mentioned on here several times that ADs give 15-30% off B&R MSRPs at the store if your asking for it. So realistically, outside of the hobby, B&Rs price are realistic.. and a value, where as doxa and sinn pricing represents hobbyist cult watches, that no one outside of the hobby has really heard of. Is it really fair to compare them on pricing? and then say one is overpriced? We shouldnt be biased towards these watches targeted at the mainstream market just because we happen to know that Sinn U1s are a hell of a deal in our little circle.

... I can understand the argument, its way to gaudy for me on the other hand or dont like the way it looks.


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## suddha

I'll jump into this discussion, as a new B&R owner. I have to say, I don't care if B&R is considered a fashion brand or.... what is the opposite of "fashion brand" anyway? Their marketing appealed to me. Grainy photos of fighter pilots, vintage race cars and commercial divers sucked me in. Watches made for bomb squads and naval aviators? Sign me up. The fact that, when you hold a B&R watch and feel its quality, and knowing they're using workhorse Swiss movements, seals the deal.

I actually like the fact that not many people will recognize the brand or the look of it, like they would a Rolex or Omega. Whether a company makes its movements in-house really isn't important to me either. And I wouldn't know the difference between a 2824 and a 2892 if someone laid two in front of me. I care about reputation for quality, fit and finish and durability. Oh, and style is important, since I have to look at the thing every day. By those criteria, Bell & Ross is a great watch. If Sinn makes or made their pieces, well, you could pick much worse partners.

Let's face it, most of us buy into marketing in one way or another. The majority of dive watch buyers don't even wear their pieces in the shower or pool, much less diving. Yet we love the watches with the military article number stamped into the back and the 1000M water resistance. From what I read, most real world Search and Rescue and military guys are wearing G-Shocks. But we can all channel our inner Bond or Dirk Pitt while we take out the garbage.


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## watch-man7777

Aqua Spearo said:


> :rodekaartyou guys that say "overpriced" really dont have a leg to stand on here, I do pricing and analysis for a living...
> The watch brands that are a true "value" i.e. Sinn and Doxa, dont even have real distribution, inventory or advertising in the united states.. when has doxa ever been advertised in an american mainstream magazine? Advertising and brand name cost money to build.. look at rolex, you think the watch is actually worth the sum of its material parts? Its also been mentioned on here several times that ADs give 15-30% off B&R MSRPs at the store if your asking for it. So realistically, outside of the hobby, B&Rs price are realistic.. and a value, where as doxa and sinn pricing represents hobbyist cult watches, that no one outside of the hobby has really heard of. Is it really fair to compare them on pricing? and then say one is overpriced? We shouldnt be biased towards these watches targeted at the mainstream market just because we happen to know that Sinn U1s are a hell of a deal in our little circle.
> 
> ... I can understand the argument, its way to gaudy for me on the other hand or dont like the way it looks.


You seem to have a hard time respecting other people's opinions.


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## Aqua Spearo

Not over price, I let the reality of finance & economics determine that.



watch-man7777 said:


> You seem to have a hard time respecting other people's opinions.


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## jhowton

I just looked at the BR-02 at an AD yesterday and liked it, particularly the black PVD coated model. They seem well made, comfortable and not too large. The internal bezel seems like a PITA to be honest and will probably prevent me from buying the watch. 

I also looked at the BR-01 (square models) which I have never liked in internet pictures and I still don't. They look gimmicky IMO, although I was surprised that they are smaller than I have imagined them to be.

I did however really like the Hydromax 11100M dive watch with white face on a (very Sinn like) bracelet. I liked it a lot, in fact and may end up buying one. I actually like the fact that many of their designs are similar to Sinn, since I am a big fan of Sinn.


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## automatik

Again, thank you all for your contribution to this forum. I must, however, mention that I was referring to models OTHER THAN the B&R instrument line. I like the look of the VINTAGE and GENEVA line that B&R has produced. Can anyone comment on any of THESE models? 
Thanks!


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## automatik

yes, thanks yam. like that one, but as far as the quality of the geneva timepieces with the auto movements...i think they have eta 2894. 
I have not heard of too many watch company's using this eta movement. 
i think it runs at a list of $400-500 range for the movement alone, so i assume it is a quality movement.


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## RedBaronF2001

jhowton said:


> The internal bezel seems like a PITA to be honest and will probably prevent me from buying the watch.


Please explain. I find it very easy to operate.


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## RedBaronF2001

vandice said:


> I see lots of $50-100 B&R/homages in South-East Asia, accurate down to the caseback imprint. I think it hurts the brand's credibility when you see teenagers (even girls) walking down the street strapped in one. Some of them call the instrument style the 'wrist clock'.
> 
> Perhaps that's one reason why B&R is considered a fashion accessory, at least in my part of the world.


I have seen these "homages" and they are far from accurate reproductions if you have owned a real BR 01 and looked carefully.

In my neck of the woods and in others, the BR 01 series are still rare.

I am out in Phoenix/Scottsdale right now and I lost count of how many Rolex Submariners I have seen.


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## Aqua Spearo

The movement is the same ETA 2894 in my mcqueen monaco... and the same movment is used in the instrument line.. omega also uses a modified version in their PO, its very solid and reviews suggest on par with the best rolex calibers.



automatik said:


> yes, thanks yam. like that one, but as far as the quality of the geneva timepieces with the auto movements...i think they have eta 2894.
> I have not heard of too many watch company's using this eta movement.
> i think it runs at a list of $400-500 range for the movement alone, so i assume it is a quality movement.


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## jhowton

RedBaronF2001 said:


> Please explain. I find it very easy to operate.


I don't want to have to rotate a crown to turn the bezel.


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## RedBaronF2001

jhowton said:


> I don't want to have to rotate a crown to turn the bezel.


Rotate or unscrew the crown? They made the bezel rotator a screw-down crown for added water resistance.


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## jhowton

RedBaronF2001 said:


> Rotate or unscrew the crown? They made the bezel rotator a screw-down crown for added water resistance.


Well, either one really. I like an external bezel, i use it multiple times daily and want something that I can just set without having to fiddle with it. I do understand what they were trying to acomplish, it just seems unecessary since there are many watches with better water resistance than the BR-02 that have an external bezel, even watches made by Bell & Ross. Like I said, I like the watch I just don't like this feature and unfortunately it is a feature I use a lot.


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## J.D.

B&R Vintage and Geneva models are some of my favorite designs in their price range. Their clean no frills look have always appealed to me, much like Fortis does.


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## Peter Atwood

I really like their vintage designs. I would strongly consider them except that they are a little small, I think the biggest run about 40mm. A bit expensive but not too bad...


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## rmcsilva

One of my favorites: B&R Classic Pilot Limited Edition










Ideal size for me, not too big, not to small (41 mm). Movemente is an ETA 2894, great quality!

Also, take a look at the box it came with...










Best regards,
Rui


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## DMB

watch-man7777 said:


> You seem to have a hard time respecting other people's opinions.












it's the Kool- Aid Jarrod. - David


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## Watch_guy

I find these types of threads interesting. I posted a similar one in the Panerai forum a while ago. Bottom line that I have found is that NONE of these watches are "worth" the money we pay, but they are worth it emotionally if you like it.
You can get a watch for under $100 that is as accurate as any of these. It's about more than simply telling time (my cell phone does that), buy what you like, enjoy it, end of discussion.
I like the Bell & Ross line. As far as the fashion watch thing goes, I personally don't think B&R is a fashion watch that will fade away.


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## Moonrat

I think the PVD could be harder on my BR-02. Every time I brush against anything it marks. Its not a patch on the Ox-Pro on my Anonimo. Other than that it's the one which gets most wrist time when I'm not worhing.


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## jackafrica

I've owned a black face Vintage 123 for over a year now as my daily wearer. 
Bought and sold two Rolex DJ's that didn't have the same clarity when it came to the dial.
The DJ's a great watch, the B&R 123 looks that much clearer to my old eyes.
I actually put it up for sale when there was a grail watch ( for me ) available a little while ago, really pleased ( now ) I didn't sell.
If only they had a cyclops crystal on the date...I would be in heaven. 

cheers
Richard


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## EROKS

I used to have a BR-02...sold it and bought a Sinn U1 and 857...which I am much more happier with...These watches feel much more like a military tool watch than the BR I used to own...I must agree that Bell Ross is more of a fahion watch


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## BR Fan

Let me jump in at this late stage.To me there are only 2 considerations - form and function. Form is really a matter of taste. Do you like the way it looks or not? Function is a little more iffy. In my books, most owners never find themselves in situations where the limits of the watch are tested. So really, as far as enthusiasts are concerned, the specifications of most makes, more than fulfill our watch wearing needs.

Whether a make is perceived as a fashion brand or not is really a matter of how it's marketed. B&R is definitely marketed in a more "fashionable" way than Sinn but I doubt that makes the watches inferior.

A couple of short and grainy videos posted by a member on the official B&R forum shows the BR02 in action. It was filmed by the member (presumably a commercial diver in the oil & gas industry) in a diving bell off the coast of west Africa. The divers were all using Kirby Morgans so I figured they were going real deep. Undoubtedly, being a fashion brand does not necessarily affect the quality or ability of its watches.


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## EL_Chingon

I had Type Marine and the Vintage 126 XL Black dial. The Type Marine was the watch that got me into watch collecting. The only thing I did not like about the Marine is that it was small 39mm case. Then I got a 126 XL and that was a very nice watch, but my issue was that the lug width and strap was to small for the case ~20mm. Both are vey nice watches and I do miss them, but I have been looking at the BR 03's lately and may be my next purchase.


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## david Anthony

About 6 years ago I was a mod on what was the first online B&R forum. At the time I really liked the direction the company was going, lots of vintage styles of great professional watches.

When the instrument series was first unveiled it was universally mocked across the WIS world and branded the edsel of switzerland. Years later when they unveiled the "phantom" or "black" watch the same cries were heard. In both cases the forums were dead wrong in predicting the tastes of the average buyer as other companies are chasing after B&R's success by copying their ideas.

In the years since I first discovered them B&R has evolved into an entirely different company, not that I think the change is good or bad...just different. Most of their new watches aren't for me, but admittedly my tastes (and those of the average WIS) are the polar opposite of the "real" world. The fact is that B&R is now a recognized and very popular brand compared to the obscure little company they were a few years ago. I congratulate them for their success even if I'm not a fan of their current designs.


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## BR Fan

David Anthony - Thanks for that interesting background.
My initial reaction especially when I first saw the BR01 was that it was more of a gimmick rather than a serious watch. Like you, I thought they had done rather well with their vintage-inspired professional models, but the BR01?

But after having taken some time to consider what they have done so, I've come to realise that B&R is always going to be design-led company. After all, Bruno Belamich is first and foremost a designer and B&R is probably the only watch company where it's founder is actually a designer and not a watchmaker.

My view is that when a company is design-led, it can lose support as easily as it can win over new fans. Hence I'm not at all surprised by the views of some forum members who consider B&R no more than a fashion brand. 

But all said and done, B&R has found its own niche in Swiss watches and I think it makes the industry that much more interesting.


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