# No more Sandwich dials in base models?



## Maxy

I've been reading that all the 8 days inhouse base models like 510, 560, 609, 610 are moving away from sandwich dials and will be having only painted dials. Cost cutting or just keeping the sandwich option only for more expensive versions? What's up with this step from Panerai? What you guys think?

I've seen this at the boutique and also at the official site and none of the base models have sandwich dials anymore.


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## onewayedc

I thought the 560 had a sandwich dial?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Synequano

510 and 560 IIRC has sandwich dial

FYI,early 111 also came with painted dial,not sandwich...

Here's 111E from 2002:


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## Maxy

onewayedc said:


> I thought the 560 had a sandwich dial?


Not anymore! From now only Painted!


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## Maxy

Synequano said:


> 510 and 560 IIRC has sandwich dial


Yes it was introduced as sandwich dials but moved to painted dials!


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## Synequano

Really? These few years I didn't really follow the newer Pams since I'm already content with what I have and I like their older stuff better than the newer ones where everything interesting are only available in larger size


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## onewayedc

You guys may have saved me from a HUGE mistake. 

I've been chasing a 560, literally everything worked out, ready to send funds. Pictures looked a little painted, but I figured it was just lighting because I thought all had sandwich dials. 

UGH! Email off to AD, to double check. The timing of this couldn't have been better. Thank you!!!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maxy

onewayedc said:


> You guys may have saved me from a HUGE mistake.
> 
> I've been chasing a 560, literally everything worked out, ready to send funds. Pictures looked a little painted, but I figured it was just lighting because I thought all had sandwich dials.
> 
> UGH! Email off to AD, to double check. The timing of this couldn't have been better. Thank you!!!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Buy Q-series as long as they are available. If you don't want used, maybe AD's can still get hold of Q-series(LE of 3000 pieces) before its sold out all over and painted dial floods the market. Good Luck!!


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## stockae92

Need to see some pic of a 560 with painted dial


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## Maxy

stockae92 said:


> Need to see some pic of a 560 with painted dial


Found this on instagram, what do you think?


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## P1723

Yup.saw the 560 R series w/o SW dial when I went Japan few weeks ago.
Don't like the look.


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## Ruby8six

Wow I was already not really a fan of the 8 days. Painted dial and unnecessary "8 days" on the dial? nah.


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## Maxy

Ruby8six said:


> Wow I was already not really a fan of the 8 days. Painted dial and unnecessary "8 days" on the dial? nah.


Yeah, I agree but the cost cutting is coming coz of the recent price decrease in US and other places. I too never liked the '8 days' part but I can understand from marketing pov to have atleast few base models to display that text and now almost all of them are aware of the 8 days power reserve. 
Lets say, for example - Tudor inhouse movements were such big news when released and with lot of power reserve than any Rolex movements but hardly anyone remembers that hours number on top of the head.


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## onewayedc

Maxy said:


> Buy Q-series as long as they are available. If you don't want used, maybe AD's can still get hold of Q-series(LE of 3000 pieces) before its sold out all over and painted dial floods the market. Good Luck!!


Thanks Maxy - I wiill see what I can find. This thread really saved my bacon. I really would have been so bummed to have received the watch to discover it was a painted dial.

I've done a lot of research over the last month and everything I saw online (reviews, etc) mentioned a sandwich dial. So it never even crossed my mind to ask or think of it. Didn't realize PAM would made a big change like that without creating a new model.

Might have to reconsider a 112.


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## Ruby8six

onewayedc said:


> Thanks Maxy - I wiill see what I can find. This thread really saved my bacon. I really would have been so bummed to have received the watch to discover it was a painted dial.
> 
> I've done a lot of research over the last month and everything I saw online (reviews, etc) mentioned a sandwich dial. So it never even crossed my mind to ask or think of it. Didn't realize PAM would made a big change like that without creating a new model.
> 
> Might have to reconsider a 112.


Do the 112!


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## stockae92

That's interesting. Doesn't even look like the 000 with the "filled" number, it looks like just a print / paint on a flat dial.



Maxy said:


> Found this on instagram, what do you think?


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## DieSkim

So has the technique of the painted dail change as well?


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## kwang411

I was so close to pulling the trigger on the 510 until I noticed it is non sandwich dial at the AD. To my surprise all the pictures I've seen online have it. Ended up going with the 111 instead. I prefer the number font of the 510 but the dial of the 111 without the "8 days", but the removal of the sandwich dial is a deal breaker.


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## stockae92

I guess I am a happy camper with a 510 that has a SW dial


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## Synequano

The new painted looks even cheaper than the one on zero...it looks too 2D instead of 3D like Sandwich or puffy/sausage


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## P1723

Someone mentioned sandwich?


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## stockae92

I wonder if the titanium version get the same dial treatment ... ??


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## waikeekee

The newer version of Circa R onwards are all painted/sausage dials. Circa Q and before are sandwich dials.

RGDS
WKK

The enemy of my enemy is my friend


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## subdiver

Is it the same filled dial like 000 and 005 ?


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## marcmc

Maxy said:


> Found this on instagram, what do you think?


Looks like a painted dial as the numbers and markers don't appear to have any depth. That being said, the photo is pretty low res. If I were buying a non Sub, I would stick to models with sandwich dials.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## marcmc

onewayedc said:


> You guys may have saved me from a HUGE mistake.
> 
> I've been chasing a 560, literally everything worked out, ready to send funds. Pictures looked a little painted, but I figured it was just lighting because I thought all had sandwich dials.
> 
> UGH! Email off to AD, to double check. The timing of this couldn't have been better. Thank you!!!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm glad you double checked that, would have been disappointing to me too.


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## stockae92

decent quality photo of 560 with printed dial here:

Panerai Luminor Base 8 Days PAM560 - Emotion of Time


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## postman10mm

Wow, just awful! I couldn't believe the transition away from sandwich dials on the 609/610 would last and assumed Panerai would have to revive them to salvage the new Radiomirs, but now the Luminors too... tragic is the only word to describe it. The cost between manufacturing the two dial types cannot be that significant, what are they thinking?


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## Synequano

They've been doing things rather erratically these few years if you ask me...first is the 47 mm SLC and cali reissue as standard edition (424 and 425) that ruined the pre owned price of 448/449

Then they reissue the bronzo with front PR (507)

Then they made the 634 with snap back

Then they make all the interesting stuff in 47mm or more (us Asians typically have smaller wrist,so these larger models may not fit us well)

And...spring bar on newer models,c'mon...

That's why since 2014 I'm actually hunting for their older models in pre owned condition instead of brand new pieces and I also want to diversify my collection to non Pam


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## ianho

I quite like like the sausage dials 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## DONCORO

I have a 560 with the sandwich dial.
The last batch of 560/510/562/564 are with painted dial not even sausage dial but a simple flat painted dial.


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## Maxy

DONCORO said:


> I have a 560 with the sandwich dial.
> The last batch of 560/510/562/564 are with painted dial not even sausage dial but a simple flat painted dial.


Last batch is R series or still end of Q series? Can someone confirm that?


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## DONCORO

Yes R series


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## DONCORO

But you can still find some Q series that are still in stock with the sandwich dial


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## ianho

I have the R 564 with a sausage dial. Not flat. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Travelller

Synequano said:


> The new painted looks even cheaper than the one on zero...it looks too 2D instead of 3D like Sandwich or puffy/sausage


Disagree. I held a Ti 8-Days with painted dial under the loupe and it looked pretty good. I can't tell the difference between them and the logos. In contrast, the 360, 001Q, 594 and 599 are maybe a bit closer to the 4A/9A PAMs with Pre-V dials b-)



stockae92 said:


> I wonder if the titanium version get the same dial treatment ... ??


Yep.



subdiver said:


> Is it the same filled dial like 000 and 005 ?


Yep.



stockae92 said:


> decent quality photo of 560 with printed dial here...


"Painted" and "printed" are not the same thing. _Contemporary and Submersible_ PAMs, like the 024, have _printed_ dials. The numerals and markers "sit" on the dial (much like most dials from other companies). _Historical_ PAMs are either _sandwich_ or _painted_.The painted dial's numerals are actually beveled into the dial and then "filled" with lume. I think it's pretty unique, much like the sandwich dials. The term "sausage" is a bit misleading as some use it for painted dials and some for printed. That's why I gave up on using it :-d



ianho said:


> I quite like like the sausage dials...


Not sure what you mean (see above) but if you mean pre-V style, I'm with you! I'm hunting for a 111G/F/E because having a few sandwich dials, I really would love a painted to round out my humble PAM collection. An 04 A pre-A would do the trick, so would a 594 or even the 001Q/R |>



ianho said:


> I have the R 564 with a sausage dial. Not flat.


How do you mean? A painted dial where the compound is slightly higher than the dial, or did you mean to write Sandwich R... :-s

_variations in painted dials from the early days, c/o Volker Weigmann of "Vintage Panerai"_









_Some very nice painted dials..._


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## Maxy

ianho said:


> I have the R 564 with a sausage dial. Not flat.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


If possible, can you post some close up or micro shots of the dial please? That's the whole issue we're discussing and it'll help clarify it!


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## Tourbillonare

I quite like the 3D pop-out effect of the sausage dials!

Suddenly I've got a hankering for a BBQ sausage sandwich....


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## DONCORO

Yes i would like also to see some close pics of your 564 dial


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## ianho

DONCORO said:


> Yes i would like also to see some close pics of your 564 dial


I'm away at the moment, so don't have access to my slr, so iPhone pics will have to do...I've tried to get as best shots I could so you can see the raised sausage style paint. 

























As said, I really have grown to like the sausage dials, and it's not really removing anything from Pam history, as the used sausage dials in the past. I personally feel a shake up of these things every now and again, brings something new.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BlackBaer

This is not my picture, but it is why I love my PAM564Q, shadows and all.


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## Synequano

I own a mix between painted and sandwich dial,and I actually prefer sandwich because of its 3D effect,but I'm still confused why the newer pams are equipped with painted...

The actual painted dial I have in my collection is 111E,since my other pams are contemporary models (23,24,92,123) with printed dial


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## wheres_b

New base models look more or less like the dials found in 662, 663 - "filled in" recessed dials. Not painted per se....painted would be the ones found in 104, 24, etc.
This is my observation anyway - I could be mistaken.


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## Travelller

wheres_b said:


> ...painted would be the ones found in 104, 24, etc.


Those are, to the best of my knowledge, "printed". What I can guarantee you is that Panerai has three dial types.


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## Wlover

So much knowledge.... information overload. I bet nobody border to discuss the lume on other brands


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## P1723

ianho said:


> I'm away at the moment, so don't have access to my slr, so iPhone pics will have to do...I've tried to get as best shots I could so you can see the raised sausage style paint.
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> As said, I really have grown to like the sausage dials, and it's not really removing anything from Pam history, as the used sausage dials in the past. I personally feel a shake up of these things every now and again, brings something new.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Another difference I noticed,the color of the numbers are different.
The sandwich ones are more of vintage patina style.


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## Maxy

Wlover said:


> So much knowledge.... information overload. I bet nobody border to discuss the lume on other brands


I think its more of 'design' discussion than rather lume discussion.


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## Ekana

That LUME tho


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## Travelller

P1723 said:


> Another difference I noticed,the color of the numbers are different.
> The sandwich ones are more of vintage patina style.


Are we sure about that? I was under the impression that these were all "white", like the existing historicals (001, 005, 111, 112, ...) :think:


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## Synequano

For the same model I think the lume color remains the same,patina lume sandwich (IIRC) are not available on general release 44mm bettarini luminor case (maybe in boutique edition...even 360 <hardly a general release> 390 and 590 have painted lume),even on 1950 they only come in numeric dial (359,438,441)


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## P1723

Travelller said:


> Are we sure about that? I was under the impression that these were all "white", like the existing historicals (001, 005, 111, 112, ...) :think:


Sorry I mean comparing the 564 which I have.

This color


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## ianho

P1723 said:


> Sorry I mean comparing the 564 which I have.
> 
> This color


Looks about the same to me. Here's one with no charge, and one with a couple of seconds by the window. 

















Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Travelller

Guys, the color of CHARGED Super-Luminova is all but impossible to compare unless you have both watches in front of your camera, both charged simultaneously, one photo etc.
Anyway, I thought we were talking about the natural (daylight) color. These models are the only _new models_ that are _not_ in OPs "faux" patina, a color they have been obsessed with since SIHH 2011... .

OT _Here is a valid charged comparison. My 2005 217 is actually different (softer, less bright) than my 2011 233. Both are classic (very light green) lume._


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## jaredkanallakan

Love the sandwich dial, shame about the change.


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## stockae92

As much as I prefer the sandwich dial for my 510, we finally have modern days (i.e. current production models) painted dial with display back. Replace the "8 days" with logo and they can "shut up and take my money"


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## ilitig8

I am very glad I have my 44mm Luminor "trio" (111, 563, 564) with sandwich dials already. While I like the look of a sausage dial on some models, on the small seconds I MUCH prefer the sandwich dials, it is a big part of the appeal of these models for me.


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## postman10mm

Before buying my first Pam, I picked up an unbranded Parnis 111 homage. I wanted to see how the size and weight worked in real life and for $200, I got a great watch. Terrible lume, but a great case, sapphire crystal, a decorated Seagull 6497 clone and a display back. The watch keeps great time, in fact, the poor lume is my only complaint.

My point is that if Parnis can make a cheap sandwich dial, what could Panerai possibly be saving to justify their elimination? Panerai is still using the same dial material and are still routing the dial face to apply lume. I remain baffled by the move.


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## Travelller

postman10mm said:


> ...what could Panerai possibly be saving to justify their elimination?


I'm also in the dark regarding this move, but I do not believe it has anything to do with economics. I think they are simply revamping their current product line...


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## RobDeep

Travelller said:


> I'm also in the dark regarding this move, but I do not believe it has anything to do with economics. I think they are simply revamping their current product line...


I'm rather upset about this whole thing. I've wanted a 564 since i saw it a couple of years ago. I saw one first hand at an AD, and loved it. I bought one sight unseen from another AD just recently, expecting to get what I saw two years ago, only to find this drastic change in the look of the dial. Now I have very expensive watch I can't really return because I traded in another watch as a part of the transaction.

Needless to say, I'm left with a pretty poor opinion of Panerai right now.


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## RobDeep

I'm rather upset about this whole thing. I've wanted a 564 since i saw it a couple of years ago. I saw one first hand at an AD, and loved it. I bought one sight unseen from another AD just recently, expecting to get what I saw two years ago, only to find this drastic change in the look of the dial. Now I have very expensive watch I can't really return because I traded in another watch as a part of the transaction.

Needless to say, I'm left with a pretty poor opinion of Panerai right now.


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## DieSkim

Mate, I understand your pain. But collections change unfortunately and you cannot really blame the company here.


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## Genebe

I think he shouldn't have worn his daughter's bracelet.



Maxy said:


> Found this on instagram, what do you think?


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## Jeffro1

I still like my good ole 111 w/ sandwich dial. But the new models look beautiful, I must say, even without the sandwich.


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## Synequano

Thankfully I already have the assortments of sandwich dials pam (177,219,292,372 et al) and an older painted dial 111

Both types have their own charm,and I guess pam simply wants people to get their more expensive models for sandwich dial (312 and 372 are the so-called entry level with sandwich dial)

Want 8 days with sandwich? There's always 233


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## MattyMac

Purely marketing. Just making buyers step up to higher priced option to acquire the coveted sandwich.


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## P1723

RobDeep said:


> I'm rather upset about this whole thing. I've wanted a 564 since i saw it a couple of years ago. I saw one first hand at an AD, and loved it. I bought one sight unseen from another AD just recently, expecting to get what I saw two years ago, only to find this drastic change in the look of the dial. Now I have very expensive watch I can't really return because I traded in another watch as a part of the transaction.
> 
> Needless to say, I'm left with a pretty poor opinion of Panerai right now.


It will grow on you one day.
Appreciate the beauty of painted dial.
Why not start a thread on your purchase experience and post up some pics!


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## cjs5

When i was searching for my first PAM, i got to look close up at painted vs. sandwich. Sandwich stood out as something distinctly different vs other brands, so I went with the 312 which at the time didn't feel entry level from a price standpoint at all! 
still freakin love it to this day and have about $600 now invested in new straps. 
Aftermarket bands for Panerai are like accessories for Apple products...everyone sells them.


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## Maxy

cjs5 said:


> Aftermarket bands for Panerai are like accessories for Apple products...everyone sells them.


Actually its Panerai's popularity which has started this huge aftermarket straps industry!


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## RobDeep

P1723 said:


> It will grow on you one day.
> Appreciate the beauty of painted dial.
> Why not start a thread on your purchase experience and post up some pics!


Good attitude to have 

Maybe I'll do that. I am starting to get over it.


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## RobDeep

MattyMac said:


> Purely marketing. Just making buyers step up to higher priced option to acquire the coveted sandwich.


I think you may be correct here. Of course, all we can do is speculate.


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