# 40mm is too big!



## Andy the Squirrel (Sep 13, 2009)

Hi there, I had a Stowa Airman Fleiger for a while although its an amazing watch I thought it was a too big and heavy - it felt too uncomfortable to wear so I ended up selling it on. Are there any plans to make smaller watches? I find watches around 35mm wide much more comfortable.


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## jtbndy (Feb 17, 2010)

I think 40mm is a great size and can look good on both larger and smaller wrists. 35mm is really dwarfed on larger wrists. Smallest I would wear is a 38mm


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## Statius (Mar 28, 2007)

I know this is basically personal preference, but I'm surprised you find a 40mm Flieger too large and heavy (especially heavy). I have 6.25" wrists and my Flieger 2801 sits beautifully. It certainly isn't heavy.


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## mr.frida (Mar 18, 2008)

+1. too big? maybe, it´s a matter of taste, but too heavy? i don´t think so. i don´t feel the weight of my flieger wearing it. in terms of weight it feels allmost like my antea ks, just bigger. in generell, i dont think that 40mm watches are too big at all. for me and my 7.4 inch wrist i like it from 35,5mm to 44mm, it always depends on the watch.


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## Ozy (Aug 10, 2009)

Andy the Squirrel said:


> Hi there, I had a Stowa Airman Fleiger for a while although its an amazing watch I thought it was a too big and heavy - it felt too uncomfortable to wear so I ended up selling it on. Are there any plans to make smaller watches? I find watches around 35mm wide much more comfortable.


Pics of your wrist!!!!! :-!


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## Tobey (Feb 19, 2009)

My wrist is 6 3/4" around, and even I think the Flieger at 40mm is too small. IMHO, 41 - 42mm would be perfect.


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## roseskunk (Jul 20, 2008)

Get yourself an IWC Mark. The XVI is 39mm, but light and relatively thin. The earlier ones are even smaller. Pricey but worth it. I have a Mark XVI and it's a bit small for me. Personally I love my FO2, and in fact have a 45mm PO incoming. I also have 8" wrists. ;-)


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## Newton13 (Feb 3, 2008)

For me, it's lug to lug. Anything over 50mm tends to overhang my 6.5" wrist unless it's on a nato strap for some reason. As far as weight, I've had timepieces that have seemed heavier in the hand than they do on the wrist and vice versa. At the end of the day, if it's uncomfortable it's exactly that.


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## hwilsdorf (Jan 18, 2008)

But Airmans aren't good on 35mm. It's a pilot's watch! It is historical big and brawny!  Antea would be good at 35mm since it's a dress watch.


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## 2manywatchez (Mar 3, 2009)

Certainly not a common POV. Seems watches have standardized around the 40mm convention now, with those above being "large" and those below being "small". In any event, 40mm, or Stowa's 41mm case, is just perfect for me.

Until Stowa goes smaller, perhaps you should check out something like a Rolex Explorer -- 36mm case, classic design and still a stunner after all these years! You can of course find the original, or track down one of the many homage or ISO watches derived from this classic.


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## Cursor (Jun 22, 2008)

2manywatchez said:


> Certainly not a common POV. Seems watches have standardized around the 40mm convention now, with those above being "large" and those below being "small". In any event, 40mm, or Stowa's 41mm case, is just perfect for me.


I agree. Stowa's 40mm is right in my sweet spot. I dislike the larger ones, but I can't imagine what a smaller one would look/feel like. I have no interest in a "featherlight" watch.


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## Andy the Squirrel (Sep 13, 2009)

Thanks for the replies guys, I think i'll stick with my other watches until Stowa come up with something smaller - It doesn't even have to be a fleiger, perhaps a new watch all together. I like easy to read dials with arabic numerals, I like the Marine and Fleiger dials but the Anita not so much.


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## jdop (Feb 9, 2010)

Yep, Stowa may be about historically referenced watches, but definitely not the right forum to augment your historically referenced Mickey Mouse watch collection methinks...;-).

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=324955

You may have read this, but these watches were originally (may still be) worn by Pilots that needed to be able to read the time in adverse conditions and were worn over their jacket sleeves...so big was necessary.


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## Andy the Squirrel (Sep 13, 2009)

jdop said:


> Yep, Stowa may be about historically referenced watches, but definitely not the right forum to augment your historically referenced Mickey Mouse watch collection methinks...;-).
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=324955
> 
> You may have read this, but these watches were originally (may still be) worn by Pilots that needed to be able to read the time in adverse conditions and were worn over their jacket sleeves...so big was necessary.


I wasn't gonna mention my other watches, but now that you have brought it up  The British Royal Air Force wore normal size watches during World War 2 and my Omega Dynamic which is based on WWII RAF watches just came back from service and on my wrist. 35mm (excluding crown)


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## brummyjon (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi Andy. Have you looked at the Stowa Partitio? I'm sure you have, but just a thought...


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## caesarmascetti (Dec 17, 2007)

Lug to Lug distance is just as important as diameter. Many people just look at the diameter and never consider lug to lug. As an example my Seiko 6309 is 44mm, vs my UTS 500m which is 43, however the UTS wears huge compared to the Seiko because itt's 52mm lug to lug while the seiko is 45mm. Always remember to get lug to lug distance before you buy a watch.


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## jdop (Feb 9, 2010)

Andy the Squirrel said:


> I wasn't gonna mention my other watches, but now that you have brought it up  The British Royal Air Force wore normal size watches during World War 2 and my Omega Dynamic which is based on WWII RAF watches just came back from service and on my wrist. 35mm (excluding crown)


:-! Sorry AtS, couldn't resist. That's a beaut! I like the script style of the font. Haven't seen that very often. Looks like it may be 'lumed' as well. When you say 'based on', is this a contemporary watch that is available new, or something you picked up along the way?

Hold on, just ran a search and found your watch again on this thread: 
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=2722687

Now I'm wondering if it's 35 or 39mm, I dunno...42 with crown, that's starting to sound big again! ;-) One of the two of you will have to get their tape measure out I think... Cool , the pale yellow IS Superluminova.

*Specs*
Model #: 52505007
Mvmnt : Omega Cal. 1108, based on ETA 2892-A2
28,800 BPM
*Diameter: 39 mm
Width w/crown: 42 mm
lug tip to lug tip: 45 mm
lug width: 19 mm*
case height: 13 mm
weight: 72 gm
Satin finish SS case , screw-in back
WR: 50 M
white numerals with *pale yellow Superluminova* hour markers
yellow second hand
Condition: Very Good (90% +)

I believe Stowa is on the conservative end of the BIG trend though, given you can find a number of watches that are in the 50+ lug-lug size category elsewhere. Just look at the Dive watch threads.

BTW the Stowa Flieger Autos are 40mm last I checked...


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## jdop (Feb 9, 2010)

Hold up...I take that back, a full historical review of the watch model gives specs as 36mm for the 'Dynamic date (your's I think) and 39 for the Chrono version. Ah, the intricate world of watches:

http://members.chello.nl/~h.mennink/watches/_private/omegadynamic.htm


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## Andy the Squirrel (Sep 13, 2009)

The Fleiger and Marine are both based on huge pocket watch sized watches, so it is not really surprising they are on the big side... I'm wondering did German officers wear Stowa watches and if so what did they look like?


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## Andy the Squirrel (Sep 13, 2009)

brummyjon said:


> Hi Andy. Have you looked at the Stowa Partitio? I'm sure you have, but just a thought...


Just had another look, it does look rather nice... 37mm wide? I can't read German!


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## vincesf (Jun 8, 2009)

jtbndy said:


> I think 40mm is a great size and can look good on both larger and smaller wrists. 35mm is really dwarfed on larger wrists. Smallest I would wear is a 38mm


+1 and I have an average size wrist. I also like 40 - 42mm.

vincesf


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## marcone (Nov 2, 2008)

6.5' wrist and I don't think for a moment the MA looks out of proportion. 
In fact I would pretty much like to get my wrist on a MO with its 41mm diameter


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## brummyjon (Jan 27, 2010)

Andy the Squirrel said:


> Just had another look, it does look rather nice... 37mm wide? I can't read German!


Yes, the Partitio is 37mm diameter. I think it's really classy and understated.

You can see the English translation of the specs by going to www.manufactum.co.uk, and searching under "Mechanical".


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## Andy the Squirrel (Sep 13, 2009)

brummyjon said:


> Yes, the Partitio is 37mm diameter. I think it's really classy and understated.
> 
> You can see the English translation of the specs by going to www.manufactum.co.uk, and searching under "Mechanical".


You have one? Any pics?


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## jdop (Feb 9, 2010)

Andy the Squirrel said:


> The Fleiger and Marine are both based on huge pocket watch sized watches, so it is not really surprising they are on the big side... I'm wondering did German officers wear Stowa watches and if so what did they look like?


There's quite a bit already written on this topic, try 'pilmil'.
Perhaps start with these, then use search function:
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=817696#poststop
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=235349

Here's a few images, happy (re)searching!:-!


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## Andy the Squirrel (Sep 13, 2009)

jdop said:


> There's quite a bit already written on this topic, try 'pilmil'.
> Perhaps start with these, then use search function:
> https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=817696#poststop
> https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=235349
> ...


I'm not sure you understood my question. The Stowa Fleiger watch was worn by the luftwaffe, I already know this. I'm curious what german offers on the ground wore on their wrists.


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## jdop (Feb 9, 2010)

Ah, officers on the ground versus in the air, I see...let me know what you find out.


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Andy,

here you can see the "Partitio" compared to one of her ancestors (about 1940):
http://niffko.com/g2data/gallery2/v/brainless/Generations/

....and when you use the following URL, you can browse through lots of vintage and modern STOWA watches:

http://niffko.com/g2data/gallery2/v/brainless/

If there are any questions: Feel free to send me a PM,

Volker ;-)


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2010)

Lug length is important, but so is the profile of the lugs. If they're low and curved, they follow the wrist. I don't like the current trend for 47mm clown watches and the 41mm FO wears just fine on my tiny wrists. The *excellent* Stowa 'old style' strap helps as it's the perfect thickness for the Stowa lugs.

I would say the Stowa's 41mm is the perfect balance between size and timelessness, but if you want a smaller flieger-type watch, maybe look at the Archimede Pilot S at 36mm.


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## Andy the Squirrel (Sep 13, 2009)

brainless said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> here you can see the "Partitio" compared to one of her ancestors (about 1940):
> http://niffko.com/g2data/gallery2/v/brainless/Generations/
> ...


Super, I might get another Stowa yet


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## ibodhidogma (Feb 24, 2010)

I have to say I agree with you. In fact I just posted the same question in the German Watch forum a few days ago.

From what I have seen, the watches from the 30's they were much smaller than 40-42mm. I really like the Stowa Antea but I am a bit afraid I will open the box to find a Panza on a strap.

To answer your question, there is the Atena Kleine 365 at 36.5mm
http://www.german-watches.com/cgi-b...nteaklsek&file=&gesamt_zeilen=Tshowrub--antea

The problem is I need the date option to keep me out of trouble!


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## jdop (Feb 9, 2010)

AtS, I think I'm beginning to see what you're saying, especially the first & last paras, bolded here, interesting, thanks! Note the 'BIG watches' reference in caps, is as it appears in the original. ;-)
'The Heer, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine (Army, Air Force and Navy) and other German organizations each determined their own contract specifications for their watches. *A common pre-WWII practice was to convert pocket watches to wrist watches by adding wire lugs (for the wrist strap) to the watch case. Due to their availability and the accuracy of the movements, it is common to find Wehrmacht wrist watches that are converted pocket watches these most often are very BIG watches, often over two inches in diameter! *

The Swiss made imported watches tend to be the most common and the easiest Wehrmacht issued watches to verify IF the 'D' code and serial numbers are intact. They are of premium quality and commonly have a Swiss AS1130 movement (although other movements were used), this is an excellent movement that was used for commercial watches both before, during, and after WWII.

A partial list of the various Swiss & German contractors are; 
Arsa, Büren, BWC, Choisi, Civitas, Edo, Freco, Gala, Glycine, Grana, Helbro, Helios, Helma, Helvetia, Longines, Mimo, Minerva, Moeris, Moser, Mulco, Nisus, Phenix, Record, Recta, Revue, Stabila, Titus, Zenith, General Watch&Co, Grana, Hado, Förster Pforzheim, Gustonia, Flora, Acacia, Bulla, Era, Onda, Onsa, Alpina, Siegerin, Pronto, Monitor, *Stowa*, Tritona, Wagner, Aeschbach, Para, Berg, Nila, Omega, Natalia, Wempe, Geering, Bidlingmaier, Speck, Vogele, Wiemer, Tutima, Hanhart, Zentra, Selza, Aristo, Lemania, Titus, Breitling, IWC, Roamer, Rellum

Copies of these Wehrmacht watches were made during and after WWII, some for commercial reasons and some for military issue. Often times the copies are so close that only an examination of the watch movement indicates the country of origin and the date of manufacture. Several German watch companies reorganized and continued to manufacture their watches after the war, especially those companies located in East Germany. The Soviets were very fond of the German aviator watches and produced excellent copies during and after the war and issued them to their own air forces. If you like the style of a German aviator wrist watch but balk at the price, one of these Soviet issued copies might be an excellent choice for your consideration.

Which "type" of Wehrmacht watch do I enjoy the most you might ask? *Due to their accuracy and history I enjoy the large wrist watches made from converted pocket watches. Most tend to be pre-WWII (20's and 30's) and are of excellent workmanship. * Mine is accurate to within a minute during daily wear but be prepared, being an old movement (design) it needs to be wound every 10 hours! Not much power reserve compared to a modern watch but I can appreciate why the Wehrmacht choose to use these large watches when smaller calibers/movements were available.'
​(from an eBay guide:*WWII German military issue service watches* by:







teleraw







(







236







)







).


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## Andy the Squirrel (Sep 13, 2009)

check out the military watch collections on here many of which are world war 2 period and most are around 35mm wide (british military watches still are to this day)

Here is a good picture comparing sizes!


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## brummyjon (Jan 27, 2010)

Andy the Squirrel said:


> You have one? Any pics?


Sadly not Andy. It is, I think, my next purchase. (But is subject to what Basel World brings of course!)

Look at the post by Morton Peto, tho ("Partitio One Year On" I think) - he posted some pics.


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## Psmith. (Jul 18, 2009)

Andy,

If 40mm really is too big, then perhaps take a look at Archimede - they have fliegers in 36 and 39 mm.

Laco also have a 36 mm flieger.



Cheers


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## Capt. Canuck (Nov 10, 2006)

Andy the Squirrel said:


> Thanks for the replies guys, I think i'll stick with my other watches until Stowa come up with something smaller - It doesn't even have to be a fleiger, perhaps a new watch all together. I like easy to read dials with arabic numerals, I like the Marine and Fleiger dials but the Anita not so much.


You should look at vintage watches then. Plenty of choice there in the smaller sizes, and anything 35mm and under is discounted meaningfully given that most people want 40mm and up these days.


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