# Suggestion for oil substitutes



## mengshi (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm trying to learn how to take apart a 6497-2 (Asian copy) and try my hand at this hobby. I'm following the ETA technical guide as well as the flash movie on this.

As some of the oils used are darn expensive for a hobbyist, can anyone suggest some cheaper oil subsitutes for the following?

Moebius 9010
Moebius D5
Moebius 9501
Moebius 941

Think I can afford the stem lube.

Thankx


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## skoochy (Jan 6, 2009)

mengshi said:


> I'm trying to learn how to take apart a 6497-2 (Asian copy) and try my hand at this hobby. I'm following the ETA technical guide as well as the flash movie on this.
> 
> As some of the oils used are darn expensive for a hobbyist, can anyone suggest some cheaper oil subsitutes for the following?
> 
> ...


Try Molykote DX (for 9501 or D-5) and Novostar, which ones depend on the application...

-s-


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## bmwfreak (Jun 7, 2008)

This old thread may be of some help....or just confuse you even more as it did me. I purchased some Nye synthetic watch oil hoping to use in places specified for Moebius 9010 and D5? Maybe others can confirm whether this is okay. Still need to find something very light for the pallet stones (941).

https://www.watchuseek.com/archive/index.php/t-254371.html


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## skoochy (Jan 6, 2009)

bmwfreak said:


> This old thread may be of some help....or just confuse you even more as it did me. I purchased some Nye synthetic watch oil hoping to use in places specified for Moebius 9010 and D5? Maybe others can confirm whether this is okay. Still need to find something very light for the pallet stones (941).
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/archive/index.php/t-254371.html


I think depending on what size watch you're working on, you can use a Novostar L in place of 941.

I have my watchmaker use Nye + Moebius for some of our very low temperature watches.

-s-


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

Although I haven't heard them ever mentioned on any forum--they may not export them-- and I'm in Japan, Seiko makes some nice watch oils and greases which I use. For example, S-6 is their all purpose watch grease (this is what they call it) which Seiko recommends for eccentric posts and pawls on automatic watches, barrel arbors, cannon pinions and hole jewels.

Older watchmakers like myself , were taught to oil with one or two oils only and grease for the setting mechanism. The 6497 is a pocket watch movement that will take all sorts of abuse in oiling and be happy. I would use one oil on the whole thing, a non creep graphite based lubricant on the mainspring and watchmakers grease on the setting mechanism. 

If you can find Seiko watch oils, you'll probably end up saving money.My bet is that you can find Seiko watch oils in many parts of Asia outside of Japan if you ask around.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

The Novostar line is about half to a third the price of the Moebius line. Just as good, in my opinion. Nye is a good GP oil as well.

The only reason all ETA oil sheets call for Moebius oil is SWATCH Group owns both ETA and Moebius, not because Moebius is better oil....


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## dbl_ (Mar 22, 2009)

Somewhere else said:


> Although I haven't heard them ever mentioned on any forum--they may not export them-- and I'm in Japan, Seiko makes some nice watch oils and greases which I use. For example, S-6 is their all purpose watch grease (this is what they call it) which Seiko recommends for eccentric posts and pawls on automatic watches, barrel arbors, cannon pinions and hole jewels.
> 
> Older watchmakers like myself , were taught to oil with one or two oils only and grease for the setting mechanism. The 6497 is a pocket watch movement that will take all sorts of abuse in oiling and be happy. I would use one oil on the whole thing, a non creep graphite based lubricant on the mainspring and watchmakers grease on the setting mechanism.
> 
> If you can find Seiko watch oils, you'll probably end up saving money.My bet is that you can find Seiko watch oils in many parts of Asia outside of Japan if you ask around.


As an experiment i used light, synthetic switch oil for balance jewels, escape wheel pivots and palette jewels. So far so good.
It cost less than a dollar for 3 ml.
http://www.cybor-tech.com.pl/info.php?id=40026
This oil is used normally for lubrication of switches in electronics.

For stem and "neighbourhood", handwind main spring , barrel arbour, canon pinion etc. I use petrolatum.

Just amateur's (!) 3 cents.

Wojtek


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

dbl_ said:


> As an experiment i used light, synthetic switch oil for balance jewels, escape wheel pivots and palette jewels. So far so good.
> It cost less than a dollar for 3 ml.
> http://www.cybor-tech.com.pl/info.php?id=40026
> This oil is used normally for lubrication of switches in electronics.
> ...


The problem you will run into with all of these, I think is "creep", that is the oild spreading from the mechanical surfaces. Watch oil is designed not to do this. I'm not sure what petrolatum is, but you might run into the problem there not only of creep, but a tendency to rapidly pick up dirt and harden also.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

Somewhere else said:


> The problem you will run into with all of these, I think is "creep", that is the oild spreading from the mechanical surfaces. Watch oil is designed not to do this. I'm not sure what petrolatum is, but you might run into the problem there not only of creep, but a tendency to rapidly pick up dirt and harden also.


Petrolatum, aka petroleum jelly or Vaseline.

It is not that good of a lubricant for metals


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## dbl_ (Mar 22, 2009)

Somewhere else said:


> ...
> I'm not sure what petrolatum is, but you might run into the problem there not only of creep, but a tendency to rapidly pick up dirt and harden also.


Make's sense but rather for open clock movements as oposed to watch cased movements.
There should be no draughts in watch cases ;-) spreading dust inside.
In fact every watch oil and grease picks up dirt due to their viscous nature.
Please correct me if I'm wrong as I have very limited experience with servicing watches, but IMHO in case of vintage watches without dust- or waterproof crowns, when stem is too loose in case hole, there is a path to enter dust particles.
In such case winding pinion, clutch and set lever greased with viscous substance act as a trap for dust particles, catching them before they pass deeper to the movement.
As to vaseline, althou not the best lubricant (sufficient for watch movements in my opinion), but good quality (especially bought as chemical reagent) vaseline won't harden at all.
regards, Wojtek


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

dbl_ said:


> Make's sense but rather for open clock movements as oposed to watch cased movements....In such case winding pinion, clutch and set lever greased with viscous substance act as a trap for dust particles, catching them before they pass deeper to the movement.
> As to vaseline, althou not the best lubricant (sufficient for watch movements in my opinion), but good quality (especially bought as chemical reagent) vaseline won't harden at all.
> regards, Wojtek


To be honest, most of my work is with vintage watches, so dust does get in. The problem I see with vaseline is that it will spread ("creep") though the movement from the winding and setting mechanism. In the end, it may get into other parts of the watch. I think watch maker's grease is inexpensive enough to be worth the cost for that reason.


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## AbslomRob (Jun 13, 2009)

You get dust in watchcases because of temperature/pressure differences. When the watch is strapped to your wrist (or in your pocket) your body heats up the case and the air inside it. Warmer air expands, forcing air out of the case. When you take it off and put it on your dusty night table, it cools down. The air inside contracts, sucking in air and dust from outside. A good silicone-coated gasket keeps that to a minimum, but nothing is perfect.

Even expensive oil is pretty cheap when you consider the cost per application.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

AbslomRob said:


> You get dust in watchcases because of temperature/pressure differences. When the watch is strapped to your wrist (or in your pocket) your body heats up the case and the air inside it. Warmer air expands, forcing air out of the case. When you take it off and put it on your dusty night table, it cools down. The air inside contracts, sucking in air and dust from outside. A good silicone-coated gasket keeps that to a minimum, but nothing is perfect.
> 
> Even expensive oil is pretty cheap when you consider the cost per application.


Ahhh, but many of the old vintage watches with the cup-type case have no gasket for the stem, just two slots in each cup for the stem to pass through.

Here is an example:


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## AbslomRob (Jun 13, 2009)

Not sure if watches like that were marketed as dustproof (or even dust protected). That one looks like it could have had a rubber gasket around the stem piece that would help reduce dust when the case was together though.


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

My old watch teacher--and this was in the days to stack heels for men, bell bottom pants and paisley shirts--used to speak of "crowns, dust proof crowns and watch proof crowns". The type of watch Lysander showed photos of never had gaskets around the stem piece on the crown when new.Dust proof crowns didn't really come in until the middle 1970s, I think.

Also, to talk about oil, we were still oiling clocks mainsprings with whale oil (and occasionally bigger pocket watches too) at that late date, and when the US banned the import of whale oil, it created a furor. Some clock makers bought gallons to stock up.

Once in a while we would get in a watch that had hadn't been serviced for many years that was originally oiled using fish oils. Into the 1950s, some people were still using oils derived from shark liver, cod liver and porpoise to oil watches.


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