# New Orient Classic Automatic with hacking and winding



## leifulong (May 4, 2010)

Just saw this on the Orient-Watch website.
CLASSIC AUTOMATIC | DJ02002B | ORIENT WATCH




















Sapphire crystal
GMT dual-time
Power reserve meter
Hacking and winding
See through case-back
Solid stainless-steel bracelet with solid end-links

What more can you ask for?

Any chance OWUSA will carry this in the near future? I know I'll be all over it.


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## mav66 (Sep 1, 2008)

Now that is very nice indeed.


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## ochavez (Nov 8, 2010)

This is a beauty! It has everything I am looking for (GMT, 40mm or higher, Saphire). If we could only get it State side! =o(


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## skywatch (Aug 3, 2010)

Elegant! I wonder if we can ask nicely to OrientUSA to bring some over?


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

What's the bph rate? Hope 28,800


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

The roman numerals kill it for me. But nice to see some more models being released with hack/handwind.


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## halfapie (Jul 29, 2008)

I will be all over that too. I am definitely buying one if it comes to OUSA. 

Hmm black or white? ... both?


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## WhoKnowsWho (Jun 9, 2010)

That looks very nice. Hacking and hand winding are nice little perks as well. It's never been a deal breaker but it's cool to have. I normally don't care for Roman numerals but I like the look of this one.


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## kew (Jan 22, 2007)

delco714 said:


> What's the bph rate? Hope 28,800


21,600


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

Ick. So it comes with winding, hacking, all the goodies but stil 21600?... come on....


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## kew (Jan 22, 2007)

delco714 said:


> Ick. So it comes with winding, hacking, all the goodies but stil 21600?... come on....


Its unnecessary to have a high beat movement in a watch at this level. These watches produce amazing accuracy. They are robust and provide many years of good service. With Orient's in house movement, Orient have been able to provide mechanical watches at a very low price. The vast majority of Seikos beat at 21600 too.

Orient do have the higher beat movement in their flagship models.


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## Tsar Bomba (Apr 14, 2010)

What exactly is "hacking" a watch? I've seen it here multiple times but have no idea what it means.


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## skywatch (Aug 3, 2010)

Tsar Bomba said:


> What exactly is "hacking" a watch? I've seen it here multiple times but have no idea what it means.


It means that when you pull the crown out to set the time, the movement stops so that you can adjust the second-hand accurately. You push the crown back in when the reference time hits the point where the second hand stopped. This way, you can learn the drift in accuracy from day to day. It is not essential unless you enjoy calibrating you own watches to the second, or for some geeks like me who try to regulate their watches by hand. Luckily Orient watches make this easy by being typically quite good, not requiring regulation!


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

I understand it's not necessary! But it is a step up towards the more "luxurious" and well known swiss eta mvts.. hell, miyota just made a new mvt, the 9015 with winding, hacking and 28,800! Supposedly, this mvt is treading water with the elabore 2824-2! I understand to keep a lesser mvt well regulated, makers go with 6bps, but let them up their ante.


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## ckot (Oct 6, 2010)

If it means more reliability and longer before needing service, I'm quite happy with 21,600. I use hacking and hand winding, but I don't get any benefit from a higher beat-rate, so I'm quite happy with this. Anyway, this is going into their entry-level line-up. 

Great to see this discussion here on this watch. I just noticed it on the Orient site too. Seems like a no-brainer that OrientUSA would pick this one up, as soon as it is available to them.

I'm really surprised that Orient is putting this new movement out in the Orient line. It looks like it is a variant of the existing PR movement from the Orient Stars, and it seems like this watch would be a good fit as a OS. I guess they want to get it out there, and still don't want to loosen up the grip on the Orient Star line (by letting over-seas sellers sell them with their typical discounts).


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## kew (Jan 22, 2007)

ckot said:


> If it means more reliability and longer before needing service, I'm quite happy with 21,600. I use hacking and hand winding, but I don't get any benefit from a higher beat-rate, so I'm quite happy with this. Anyway, this is going into their entry-level line-up.
> 
> Great to see this discussion here on this watch. I just noticed it on the Orient site too. Seems like a no-brainer that OrientUSA would pick this one up, as soon as it is available to them.
> 
> I'm really surprised that Orient is putting this new movement out in the Orient line. It looks like it is a variant of the existing PR movement from the Orient Stars, and it seems like this watch would be a good fit as a OS. I guess they want to get it out there, and still don't want to loosen up the grip on the Orient Star line (by letting over-seas sellers sell them with their typical discounts).


I was surprised to see the new GMT movement in the Orient line too but they certainly needed a replacement for the non adjustable GMT. It's interesting with the Japan Domestic line...... at least some of the Orient Stars appear to be available in Singapore and Indonesia (there maybe others too).


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

though I wish it was 28,800, for an entry level I can take 21600, but I agree 100% this would be good for OrientUSA!


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## ochavez (Nov 8, 2010)

Maybe we should all e-mail orient USA and ask them to start asking Japan to send them our way. What do you guys think?


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## por44 (Dec 21, 2007)

ochavez said:


> Maybe we should all e-mail orient USA and ask them to start asking Japan to send them our way. What do you guys think?


Would suggest an email to Orient in Japan


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## JapanWatch (Sep 27, 2009)

Not to be picky  But a hacking, GMT, Diver would be a most amazing timepiece. They have the movements and Mako cases....


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

JapanWatch said:


> Not to be picky  But a hacking, GMT, Diver would be a most amazing timepiece. They have the movements and Mako cases....


 I agree. This watch has all the missing pieces, I just don't care for the whole delivery. If they made a diver with these elements, or even a sportier dress version of this current watch, it would be on my wrist in no time.


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## Chromejob (Jun 18, 2010)

28800 bph movements are nice for a central sweep second hand, for that vintage "luxury watch" look and feel (i.e. Rolex 6538, preserved for history in GOLDFINGER's pre-title sequence), but really doesn't add anything to accuracy considering the quality of today's movements. Oh, it's "nice" to see the sweep second hand moving a bit more smoothly around the dial, but really how many times a day do any of us use this? (Me, when I grind coffee, but 21,600 bph is sufficient for that.)

An exception would be chronos. I have a watch with, apparently, a Shanghai 3L movement (7750 clone), the high beat rate is wasted on the seconds sub-dial (makes it a little hard to see if it's running, actually), but comes in handy for the central sweep second hand of the chrono. Now _that's _a good application of a 28,800 bph movment IMHO.


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

I agree chrome, I have a hammy jazzy. It looks the like small seconds @9 stops moving sometimes, but the chrono center seconds is OK. Like many before have said numerous times, the center chrono hand is a bit choppy


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## ckot (Oct 6, 2010)

ochavez said:


> Maybe we should all e-mail orient USA and ask them to start asking Japan to send them our way. What do you guys think?


I emailed them, and they responded saying they thought it was a JDM watch. It clearly isn't, or it wouldn't be on orient-watch.com, or have a 'distributors' link at the top of the micro-site (Classic-Automatic GMT | ORIENT WATCH) for finding all the international distributors, including Puritime.

I don't think they are following new releases as much as we are, and it could well be that Orient makes this available to them in the near future. Based on the micro-site, they seem to see this watch as a pretty big deal and want to push it.


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## WeylandYutani (Nov 13, 2008)

For some reason I absolutely despise roman numerals. I'm a right sucker for arabic numerals though...

If this watch had arabic numerals I'd consider getting one.


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

WeylandYutani said:


> For some reason I absolutely despise roman numerals. I'm a right sucker for arabic numerals though...
> 
> If this watch had arabic numerals I'd consider getting one.


 Agreed.


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## yuber5 (Oct 1, 2009)

I think a very good feature in a quite good model,
hack, handwind, power reserve, and GMT in one watch, just wondering about the price.

And if it is an international model, it should be not hard to find it everywhere maybe in 2-3 months ahead?
Btw this model is DJ02003W, anyone know this EJ02003W?


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## 19 Delta (Nov 30, 2010)

That watch with their ivory dial and blue hands with a brown leather strap would be on my top 3 list.


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## Christopher Walken (Mar 2, 2011)

I just joined this site because I'm enamored with this watch, which apparently has been rumored/sighted for some time without it actually being sold anywhere. Probably not smart to judge without seeing it in person, but I'm thinking of it as my first watch and to commemorate graduating from college. I hope yuber5 is right that it should be everywhere in a couple months... just in time!

I just emailed Puritime and am tempted to ask the domestic marketing address in Japanese. 

Design is similar to WV0531ER (domestic tag) which sells for about $200, but I'm guessing it'll be quite a bit more than that since orient-watch.com bills it as "our new flagship model." I'm guessing it'll be more expensive than the other world time watches.


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## por44 (Dec 21, 2007)

WeylandYutani said:


> For some reason I absolutely despise roman numerals. I'm a right sucker for arabic numerals though...
> 
> If this watch had arabic numerals I'd consider getting one.


*+2

*


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## Christopher Walken (Mar 2, 2011)

No response from Puritime. Considering that it has been 5 weeks since their product announcement "for immediate release" and watch bloggers have seen the watch in person, I wonder what could possibly be taking so long. 

I'm going to write the Japanese marketing contact....


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## Christopher Walken (Mar 2, 2011)

Heard back from Orient Tokyo.

Polite but somewhat puzzling response. (They also got my name wrong, which is a bit annoying.)

Orient HQ says that the DJ02 is a model "currently being sold in select regions." "The on-sale date/season for the US is undetermined." This is my own translation of their Japanese response. 

The implication in Japanese is this: It is slated for release in the US, but when has not yet been determined. If it weren't slated for release in the US, they would have said "The selling in USA is undetermined," and say nothing of the date/season for starting to sell.

Curiously, despite basically telling me that US distribution is in the planning stages, they also said they'd pressure Puritime into answering my inquiry. Now I feel kind of like I'm in the wrong for getting anxious.

I had also asked about the price at least in general terms, but perhaps unsurprisingly, they did not comment on the price even in general terms. 

Of course, if HQ can't really tell me much, I'm not sure what good it is to pester Puritime. Since I was thinking of this watch as my very first watch, I wonder if I should look into other classy watches. Any recommendations?


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## ckot (Oct 6, 2010)

It might show up on one of the Singapore sites (Watches88, skywatches) before OrientUSA gets it, so it is worth checking in with them.


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## No Smoking (May 11, 2008)

Anyone have any news regarding the release of this watch? I emailed Orient enquiring about it and recieved this response. 
Dear Sir,​ ​ Thank you for your message.​
Unfortunately, we don't have any distributors in Australia, and we don't have any net shopping system.​ We don't think you can buy ORIENT watches in Australia.​ Recently, some person buy the watches by internet shopping, however those are not official sales.​ We don't know they are real ORIENT watches or not.​ In addition, they don't give you the guarantee booklet, and some troubles are already happened.​ Sorry for your inconvenience.​ ​ Best regards​ ORIENT WATCH CO., LTD​


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## GTR83 (Dec 26, 2010)

No Smoking said:


> Anyone have any news regarding the release of this watch? I emailed Orient enquiring about it and recieved this response.
> Dear Sir,​ ​ Thank you for your message.​
> Unfortunately, we don't have any distributors in Australia, and we don't have any net shopping system.​ We don't think you can buy ORIENT watches in Australia.​ Recently, some person buy the watches by internet shopping, however those are not official sales.​ We don't know they are real ORIENT watches or not.​ In addition, they don't give you the guarantee booklet, and some troubles are already happened.​ Sorry for your inconvenience.​ ​ Best regards​ ORIENT WATCH CO., LTD​


That is a typical response, actually. Seiko also sent me something like that, but I was indeed inquiring about their curiously termed 'net shopping system'. Come on, everyone knows (at least every WIS) that watches always go from factories to ADs and then to the retailers, including online stores. It's the only reason why online prices are always much lower, because they got massive discounts from ADs for buying in bulk. Sometimes it's even worse, a (not always rogue) AD employee opens up a webstore and sells his own company's merchandise for 50% off! I know this because I knew a chap who ran such a "business" locally. If ADs only sell to end users (not us, obviously) then how can any AD survive for years, let alone decades?

Thread jacking rant over.


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## fjf (Mar 26, 2011)

It seems it is already out: Orient GMT with hack and handwind - DJ02003W « Yeoman's Watch Review
No word on pricing, though.


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## por44 (Dec 21, 2007)

Might be tough to get a reply - emails don't seem to work well unless an order is being placed


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## fjf (Mar 26, 2011)

Orient Automatic Gents GMT Silver Dial Stainless Steel Watch SDJ02003W

Not cheap!.


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## MarkKim (Apr 11, 2011)

JapanWatch said:


> Not to be picky  But a hacking, GMT, Diver would be a most amazing timepiece. They have the movements and Mako cases....


Check out the m-force. It's a diving watch, that's hackable and wind-able. 
Automatic Watches | Orient Watch USA


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## leifulong (May 4, 2010)

What a coincidence that you brought this up, Mark! I was saving up for the DJ02 but finally decided that it's a bit TOO dressy for me. I already have the beautiful Orient 60th Anniversary for those rare occasions. I took that fund and ordered the new M-Force as soon as you posted it this past weekend. What can I say...it's love at first sight. I was slightly disappointed when I learned afterward that it has folded end links instead of SEL. But in reality, it's not that big of a deal. Rolex Submariners never had them until recent years and people actually argue that the folded end links were more comfortable. I'm hoping to be able to post my first ever watch review when I get it this weekend.


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## Ananda (Feb 28, 2008)

The amazing thing is that this watch is 15mm thick. That's a slab.


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## irev210 (Apr 29, 2008)

Ananda said:


> The amazing thing is that this watch is 15mm thick. That's a slab.


Diameter 40.40mm
Thickness 11.98mm

Where do you see 15mm?

*Specifications*

Mechanical Movement : ORIENT caliber 40P51 Made in Japan
Self-winding & Hand-winding movement
22 jewels
21600/hour vibrations
Power reserve indicator, Date indicator
24hour hand (Dual-time function)
Second hand halt mechanism

Stainless steel case
Sapphire crystal 
See-through caseback with crystal
Stainless steel bracelet
Water resistant to 50m
Diameter 40.40mm
Thickness 11.98mm

CLASSIC AUTOMATIC | DJ02002B | ORIENT WATCH


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## MarkKim (Apr 11, 2011)

Christopher Walken said:


> Heard back from Orient Tokyo.
> 
> Polite but somewhat puzzling response. (They also got my name wrong, which is a bit annoying.)
> 
> ...


Hey there!

We do have a couple pieces of the watch, however it's not for resale, but we're using it as samples for trade shows and our show room.

Our next delivery for DJ0200 is after Fall, which is our reason for not promoting it. Based on all the recent happenings, I'm so sorry to say it can't be available earlier.

Best,

Mark


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

MarkKim said:


> We do have a couple pieces of the watch, however it's not for resale, but we're using it as samples for trade shows and our show room.


 Just curious, what kind of trade shows do you do? Also, you have a show room for the public?


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## Ananda (Feb 28, 2008)

Oops, I guess it's not a slab.


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## MarkKim (Apr 11, 2011)

WillMK5 said:


> Just curious, what kind of trade shows do you do? Also, you have a show room for the public?


We attend the JCK show in Las Vegas. This is the largest jewelry convention in N America. We do have a show room for our wholesale customers in Los Angeles.


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## ckot (Oct 6, 2010)

Skywatches is saying it is 43mm in diameter, while the Orient site says 40.4. Anyone know which it is? 

Of course, for $480 (street), I'm not sure why they didn't just make it an Orient Star.


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## Lvnssa (Nov 3, 2010)

Very nice watch! I sure hope that I get to lay my hands on one of these.. The roman numbers and the texture on the dial are real nice, IMO.


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## Krosya (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm the opposite - I love roman numerals and wish Orient made more watches with them.


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## Krosya (Apr 26, 2011)

Well, if you dont need GMT - they have basically same watch - cheaper:
Orient Automatic Men's Power Reserve Sports Watch SEJ02003W


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## dbodner22 (Dec 10, 2012)

Krosya said:


> Well, if you dont need GMT - they have basically same watch - cheaper:
> Orient Automatic Men's Power Reserve Sports Watch SEJ02003W


Sorry to pump an old thread. Does anyone know if they have this in black? I really like the look of the DJ02002B, and prefer the black face, but have no real need for the GMT functionality.


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## skippington (Sep 30, 2010)

dbodner22 said:


> Sorry to pump an old thread. Does anyone know if they have this in black? I really like the look of the DJ02002B, and prefer the black face, but have no real need for the GMT functionality.


here:
Orient Automatic Men Power Reserve Sports Watch SEJ02002B EJ02002B


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## jalind (Sep 3, 2007)

delco714 said:


> Ick. So it comes with winding, hacking, all the goodies but stil 21600?... come on....


Old thread and comment but going to add my remarks as I found the thread searching on the movement caliber number . . .

There's a design trade-off with beat rate, and it's the reason the Seiko and Orient movements beat at 21.6k, a good number of ETA beat at 28.8k, and only some of the luxury and very costly beat at 36k. The higher beat rate offers the potential for higher precision, but whether or not a specific movement actually achieves that with a higher beat depends on several isochronism factors, including how much the balance varies with temperature, how much the beat slows as the mainspring unwinds, how the beat changes with watch position (aka how well adjusted it is), etc. Simply increasing a beat rate doesn't necessarily guarantee higher precision. The trade-off for a higher beat is a significant increase in mainspring force required to drive the balance, pallet and escape wheel at a higher rate (and it is significant). This results in higher potential for mainspring isochronism, requiring a very well designed mainspring to mitigate it, and there are greater forces on staff pivots resulting in greater wear over time.

It's why Seiko and Orient have chosen to remain at 21.6 kbph with all but their luxury movements. Their existing designs at that rate can be regulated quite well, often within COSC if patiently tweaked (their regulating arms don't have micro-adjusters), and it allows for a more robust movement with less pivot wear over time, leading to a longer service life. It's not difficult for me to understand their decision. That Miyota (Citizen) has created the 28.8kbph 9000 family is great and I applaud their doing it. What will remain to be seen is their long-term service life as a result.


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