# Any news on new pilot's mark with inhous caliber?



## viurar

Hi guys

I heard some rumours alredy last year about a new pilot's mark with in-house caliber coming out soon here in the forum.

Now I heard from an official seller that this might actually be true resp. that there are rumours of a Mark 20 coming out in the next months.

Any of you guys heard anything alike?

I'm thinking of buying a Mark XVIII but a new inhouse Mark would be a reason to wait a little bit.

Looking forward to your answers.

P.s. I'm a new member to the forum so hope you forgive me if any mistakes...


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## ivanos

The new Mark with 38 mm size and in-house movement? (Sorry I was just dreaming)


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## ctw19

Based on the number of years each Mark iteration has been in production, we should be getting close to the next one. I'm personally looking forward to it but not holding my breath that it will be 2022.


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## Kakemonster

viurar said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I heard some rumours alredy last year about a new pilot's mark with in-house caliber coming out soon here in the forum.
> 
> Now I heard from an official seller that this might actually be true resp. that there are rumours of a Mark 20 coming out in the next months.
> 
> Any of you guys heard anything alike?
> 
> I'm thinking of buying a Mark XVIII but a new inhouse Mark would be a reason to wait a little bit.
> 
> Looking forward to your answers.
> 
> P.s. I'm a new member to the forum so hope you forgive me if any mistakes...


Very interesting! I really hope these news are true! I would love a new mark! Since you refer to it as mark 20, they are skipping 19 then?


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## JorgeB

Mark XX is going to be so cool and great it'll skip the XIX


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## wagenx

+1 in house Mark would be a no brainer upgrade for me, no doubt


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## Kakemonster

Just saw a post on the IWC owners group on facebook. Apparently the mark XX is identical to the mark xiii, but includes the updated movement used in the spitfire automatic. High-end watchmaking from IWC. Glad they didn't choose the lazy approach...

Jokes aside I was actually hoping they would at least try to tinker a bit with the design. Guess not...


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## snikerdewdle

Probably won't happen but a fully lumed dial like the Big Pilot 43 would be nice.


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## chnzwh

Kakemonster said:


> Just saw a post on the IWC owners group on facebook. Apparently the mark XX is identical to the mark xiii, but includes the updated movement used in the spitfire automatic. High-end watchmaking from IWC. Glad they didn't choose the lazy approach...
> 
> Jokes aside I was actually hoping they would at least try to tinker a bit with the design. Guess not...


So they've skipped the Mark XIX designation altogether?


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## Kakemonster

chnzwh said:


> So they've skipped the Mark XIX designation altogether?


Looks like it. The thread-starter had inspected the pieces in an IWC boutique in Europe. Apparently these are available in the boutique, but not yet online.


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## LodeRunner

Not my photo but here it is. Looks pretty much the same as the old one and they managed to NOT fix the date window placement











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## Kakemonster

LodeRunner said:


> Not my photo but here it is. Looks pretty much the same as the old one and they managed to NOT fix the date window placement
> 
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> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I can understand why they didn't want to make any radical changes to the mark series, but this simply a lazy effort by IWC.

Not bothering fixing the date window, the lugs are still almost as long as the bg 43, and it seems like it does not even feature the easy strap/bracelet change system. Why even bother calling it the mark xx, when there are practically no changes?


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## Hackmartian

I'm not sold on that pic being of the real watch. The changes to the dial are so subtle (and a step back in refinement) that it's hard to believe this to be the next generation of the design and wouldn't make sense for IWC to designate this as a leap to "XX" rather than moving on to "XIX" and likely wouldn't inspire anyone to trade up to this model just to get an extra day of power reserve (assuming it uses the Spitfire movement). Possible this is just a pic of a knock-off?


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## Kakemonster

I


Hackmartian said:


> I'm not sold on that pic being of the real watch. The changes to the dial are so subtle (and a step back in refinement) that it's hard to believe this to be the next generation of the design and wouldn't make sense for IWC to designate this as a leap to "XX" rather than moving on to "XIX" and likely wouldn't inspire anyone to trade up to this model just to get an extra day of power reserve (assuming it uses the Spitfire movement). Possible this is just a pic of a knock-off?


It very well might be a knock-off. Hard to tell. The Facebook post also stated that a new aquatimer with a 5 day power reserve is coming and was available for viewing in the same boutique. Only way to verify this I guess is to enquire IWC or go to another boutique.


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## LodeRunner

Hackmartian said:


> I'm not sold on that pic being of the real watch. The changes to the dial are so subtle (and a step back in refinement) that it's hard to believe this to be the next generation of the design and wouldn't make sense for IWC to designate this as a leap to "XX" rather than moving on to "XIX" and likely wouldn't inspire anyone to trade up to this model just to get an extra day of power reserve (assuming it uses the Spitfire movement). Possible this is just a pic of a knock-off?


I believe the photo is real or I wouldn't have posted it. I was at an IWC boutique just two weeks ago myself, and they showed me photos of the upcoming Mark XX (they didn't have the actual watch at the time) and it looked like what's in that photo. They're also going to offer the Mark XX in black, silver, and green dialed versions.

And yes, it will be the Mark XX, they're skipping XIX for some reason. I don't know why but this isn't the first time IWC has skipped numbers in the Mark series. For example, IWC went straight from the Mark 12 (XII) to the Mark 15 (XV), presumably because 13 and 14 are considered unlucky by some cultures.


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## snikerdewdle

Any news on the pricing?


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## Kakemonster

LodeRunner said:


> I believe the photo is real or I wouldn't have posted it. I was at an IWC boutique just two weeks ago myself, and they showed me photos of the upcoming Mark XX (they didn't have the actual watch at the time) and it looked like what's in that photo. They're also going to offer the Mark XX in black, silver, and green dialed versions.
> 
> And yes, it will be the Mark XX, they're skipping XIX for some reason. I don't know why but this isn't the first time IWC has skipped numbers in the Mark series. For example, IWC went straight from the Mark 12 (XII) to the Mark 15 (XV), presumably because 13 and 14 are considered unlucky by some cultures.


Interesting. Seems legit then. Do you know if it will still be available on a bracelet like the mark 18?

Even though it looks identical, they might have done some subtle changes to case or lugs.


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## chnzwh

They basically slapped on the dial from Mark 18 Heritage (which is a minor visual improvement over the regular Mark 18 in terms of date window placement) and used the 32000 movement, sans sapphire caseback unlike their recent take on other pilot watches. 

I hope the L2L distance can be downsized to around 48mm to fit more wrists. Otherwise this release is an extremely lazy move on IWC's part.


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## ctw19

If that picture is real, this is really disappointing. Not that it's a bad looking watch, but like others have said it's just lazy. If real, hopefully they at least increased water resistance to 100m.


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## njhinde

I was only hoping for the Spitfire case and movement with a regular Mark series dial. And a bracelet. Maybe next time…


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## ATXWatch

I would never but a $4k ETA or Sellita powered watch. But if it is an in-house movement, this would be a no-Brainer purchase for me. I have always loved the IWC Flieger. But did 't like the movement. I loved the movement in the Big Pilot 43 but thought the watch wore too big.

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## k12123

Looks like the Mark XVIII is no longer available for purchase online. Could be a sign.


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## njhinde

k12123 said:


> Looks like the Mark XVIII is no longer available for purchase online. Could be a sign.


Well spotted - same here in Germany.


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## Kakemonster

LodeRunner said:


> Not my photo but here it is. Looks pretty much the same as the old one and they managed to NOT fix the date window placement
> 
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> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Someone on the Facebook group picked up some subtle dial differences between the mark xviii and the new mark xx.

The hour indicators on 3, 6, 9 and 12 have been extended slightly, much like the mark xviii heritage edition. However, unlike the heritage edition, the other hour indicators have not been extended. This change is likely a response to the date window placement on the mark xviii.


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## LodeRunner

To answer someone's question above, the pictures that I saw of the Mark XX indicated that it would have a bracelet option (with a higher price tag the leather strap model), consistent with the outgoing Mark XVIII. The pictures that I saw were small but the bracelet didn't look different from the one on the Mark XVIII.

But you might be right that the extended "stick" hour marker at 3:00 could have been done to reduce the impact of the date wheel placement, that was one of the benefits of the Heritage dial. It's still a lazy workaround for what should have been an easily-fixable problem on a supposed luxury watch, and it will remain an eyesore on the blue dial version given that the date wheel will still have a white background. I'd have to see it in person, of course; the picture of the Mark XX above was taken at an angle that might accentuate the date window placement, perhaps it looks better dead-on.

It's sad that IWC still can't get this right when other pilot-style watches like the Oris ProPilot 40mm pictured below, having almost identical dimensions as the Mark 18 at one-third the price, somehow manages to have its date wheel more suitably placed:


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## ShaGaL

Is there any official date of release? Or when they will show them online? In past i never saw something like this, that watch was already in showroom to check but not officialy released.


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## k12123

ShaGaL said:


> Is there any official date of release? Or when they will show them online? In past i never saw something like this, that watch was already in showroom to check but not officialy released.



It does seem odd. I wonder if it’ll be more of a “silent” update given the small changes.


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## vijay

I had written an email directly to customer care team at IWC asking the above question. Someone from their side called me and said that it might be a boutique edition. I informed to her that I was talking about refresh of the Mark 18 and hence it must be available globally to which she said that normally the watches are listed online on their website after which the new or facelifted models trickle to their boutiques and AD's slowly globally. The funny thing is I know that this isnot the case as the green dial IWC Big Pilot 43 was first seen in a boutique and it was updated on their website much later. So I believe their customer care team are as clueless as us in the grand scheme of things as she was asking me for the reference number.


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## Kakemonster

vijay said:


> I had written an email directly to customer care team at IWC asking the above question. Someone from their side called me and said that it might be a boutique edition. I informed to her that I was talking about refresh of the Mark 18 and hence it must be available globally to which she said that normally the watches are listed online on their website after which the new or facelifted models trickle to their boutiques and AD's slowly globally. The funny thing is I know that this isnot the case as the green dial IWC Big Pilot 43 was first seen in a boutique and it was updated on their website much later. So I believe their customer care team are as clueless as us in the grand scheme of things as she was asking me for the reference number.


😂 I can vouch for the customer care team being pretty clueless. I know that IWC is moving in the boutique exclusive direction as most watch companies, but I seriously doubt it in this case.


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## snikerdewdle

I searched #IWCmarkxx on Instagram and came up with some posts. It looks like it's going to be 100 meters wr, shorter L2L, and I think the pics showed a fully lumed dial. If all this is correct going to be hard not to pick one up at some point, they've made all the changes I would have asked for.


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## antnyhng

Mk XX will be an in-house movement. Still 40mm. Date window will be fixed. Has the new bracelet as an option. Green dial will be available. Case has been reworked. 

Launching this coming week. 


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## k12123

It looks like the date window is now white on the black dial.


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## snikerdewdle

Hopefully they don't move the price up too much. I have one more watch to sell, and would love to pick up this in a black dial to go with my sinn 356.


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## k12123

antnyhng said:


> Mk XX will be an in-house movement. Still 40mm. Date window will be fixed. Has the new bracelet as an option. Green dial will be available. Case has been reworked.
> 
> Launching this coming week.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mind if I ask where you heard this from? Thanks!


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## JorgeB

Just found a video. Definitely real.


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## Kakemonster

Nice!! Is it me or does the crown look bigger? Reworked lugs sounds promising... might have to add this after all...


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## PuffPhas

Kakemonster said:


> Nice!! Is it me or does the crown look bigger? Reworked lugs sounds promising... might have to add this after all...


The crown does seem larger. Look at the side-to-side comparison with the Mark XVIII at 2:45 on the video.


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## ctw19

Earlier in the thread I made a comment about the update seeming lazy since it looked almost the same but I'm changing my tune now. I think it's a nice subtle evolution similar to what Rolex does where they didn't mess with what was already great about the design of the previous model but made thoughtful updates like the date window and the water resistance. Not to mention an in house caliber. Unless they do something crazy with pricing they'll sell a ton of these. I can't wait to see the green that's been mentioned.


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## ATXWatch

A few more things to note. Looks like this one will get the 32111 calibre which will have a 72 hour power reserve and longer service interval. And water resistance to 100 meters. Shorter lug-to-lug distance and slightly thinner. 

If the price doesn't go up a lot, this is the no-brainer Flieger to buy.

Apart from Rolex availability, we live in the Golden age of watches IMO. There are so many incredible watches for sale that deliver outstanding performance and aesthetic right now...

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## Kakemonster

I was definitely quick to judge and labelled IWC as lazy when I saw the first picture of the new mark, expecting basically no real changes. However, this looks very promising. Glad to be have been wrong in this case! 🙂


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## Gerrard8

Cronos already has a poor man’s version, 39 mm, white calendar disc, full lumed numerals.

With SW200 movement, only for 300$. With another 35$, one can chosen own logo to be printed on the dial. I chose to print my favorite football team’s logo (without letters at bottom of the logo, in case someone knocks my door)

The case quality and finish are as good if not better than many stowa, Laco, Fortis…
I would say it is 90% the IWC mark 18 in terms of the watch, at less than 10% of the price.
What are missing are the double AR and brand recognition.

Nothing against IWC, I quite like many IWC models. But at around 5000 $, there are too many other options, e.g., in-house movement, 3D dial, or even gold index/hands.


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## Flaafl

ATXWatch said:


> A few more things to note. Looks like this one will get the 32111 calibre which will have a 72 hour power reserve and longer service interval. And water resistance to 100 meters. Shorter lug-to-lug distance and slightly thinner.


I can speak Korean pretty fluently, and the video says it is the Caliber 32111, but he said "...a power reserve of 120 hours, so 5 days".

Other things I got from the video:

51mm to 49mm lugs, and will be more sharply downturned versus the more "ladder-looking lugs" on the XVIII
Thickness from 11mm to 10.8mm (a *decrease *in thickness after going from a 2892-clone to an in-house movement is pretty impressive)
10 bar water resistance, like you said
Silicon balance adjusted to 5 positions
Bracelet is coming, will be revealed in August I think
Will use IWC's quick-change system for straps


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## Kakemonster

Flaafl said:


> I can speak Korean pretty fluently, and the video says it is the Caliber 32111, but he said "...a power reserve of 120 hours, so 5 days".
> 
> Other things I got from the video:
> 
> 51mm to 49mm lugs, and will be more sharply downturned versus the more "ladder-looking lugs" on the XVIII
> Thickness from 11mm to 10.8mm (a *decrease *in thickness after going from a 2892-clone to an in-house movement is pretty impressive)
> 10 bar water resistance, like you said
> Silicon balance adjusted to 5 positions
> Bracelet is coming, will be revealed in August I think
> Will use IWC's quick-change system for straps


This sounds amazing! If this is all true, then take my money! 

Spec-wise the new mark is on pair or better than the bp 43. This leaves me to suspect that we might see a major price increase 😔 Hope I am wrong (again) 🙏


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## snikerdewdle

I just realized that the bracelet is $1k more than the strap on the Mark XVIII.... It's a nice bracelet but IDK if it's that nice. Would probably buy an aftermarket canvas strap or see if IWC makes one with their quick change system. Hopefully it can stay under $5k but I doubt it.


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## ATXWatch

Flaafl said:


> I can speak Korean pretty fluently, and the video says it is the Caliber 32111, but he said "...a power reserve of 120 hours, so 5 days".
> 
> Other things I got from the video:
> 
> 51mm to 49mm lugs, and will be more sharply downturned versus the more "ladder-looking lugs" on the XVIII
> Thickness from 11mm to 10.8mm (a *decrease *in thickness after going from a 2892-clone to an in-house movement is pretty impressive)
> 10 bar water resistance, like you said
> Silicon balance adjusted to 5 positions
> Bracelet is coming, will be revealed in August I think
> Will use IWC's quick-change system for straps


I saw the 120 hour reference in the vid, but when you go to IWC's website, it states 72 hr power reserve for that calibre. Something is off unless the 32111 was upgraded further to have a 120 hour PR across the board and is first used in this watch.


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## ATXWatch

Gerrard8 said:


> Cronos already has a poor man’s version, 39 mm, white calendar disc, full lumed numerals.
> 
> With SW200 movement, only for 300$. With another 35$, one can chosen own logo to be printed on the dial. I chose to print my favorite football team’s logo (without letters at bottom of the logo, in case someone knocks my door)
> 
> The case quality and finish are as good if not better than many stowa, Laco, Fortis…
> I would say it is 90% the IWC mark 18 in terms of the watch, at less than 10% of the price.
> What are missing are the double AR and brand recognition.
> 
> Nothing against IWC, I quite like many IWC models. But at around 5000 $, there are too many other options, e.g., in-house movement, 3D dial, or even gold index/hands.


I used to think like you. Owned several Stowas and sold them all. They were good watches, but cannot keep up with an inhouse calibre like the 32111 in the long run IME. My Omegas and Rolex ALL keep better time than the Stowas, are all tougher with respect to shock resistance, have a much longer warranty etc. I think the real weakness was that the MK18 had the Sellita movement. I would never have paid for that. If you want a Sellita movement, there are indeed MANY watches that are similar for a fraction of the money. I think the MK20 is different.


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## Flaafl

ATXWatch said:


> I saw the 120 hour reference in the vid, but when you go to IWC's website, it states 72 hr power reserve for that calibre. Something is off unless the 32111 was upgraded further to have a 120 hour PR across the board and is first used in this watch.


I'm a bit confused about that as well. The guy seems to be talking with a local IWC representative, but maybe we can wait for a clarification on this when it gets talked about by other sources.

They also mentioned a silicon hairspring in the video. I had always thought that technology was exclusive to Swatch-Rolex. Do Richemont have their own patent-infringement-safe method for fabricating silicon balances?


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## JorgeB

I really like the new improvements made to the Mark series, I think it will be a 72 hours reserve and not a 5 day power reserve. 
The Top Gun Automatic already has the 32110 and I can see IWC matching the same movement for both models. 5-day is too close to the 7-day BP and it doesn't make sense on an entry level piece. 

Also at 10.8mm giving it 5 day would be insane from a technical perspective.


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## Flaafl

Okay, I did some quick looking around, and there seems to be some confusion on the caliber names, me included.

The Spitfire Marks we're familiar with use the Caliber *32110* with a 72 hour power reserve. The Mark XX (if the video is correct) uses Caliber *32111*, which does have a 5-day power reserve.

This "Laureus Sport for Good" Edition has the same movement, and has 120 hours of power reserve


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## ATXWatch

Flaafl said:


> Okay, I did some quick looking around, and there seems to be some confusion on the caliber names, me included.
> 
> The Spitfire Marks we're familiar with use the Caliber *32110* with a 72 hour power reserve. The Mark XX (if the video is correct) uses Caliber *32111*, which does have a 5-day power reserve.
> 
> This "Laureus Sport for Good" Edition has the same movement, and has 120 hours of power reserve


great detective work. Thanks,.


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## Gerrard8

ATXWatch said:


> I used to think like you. Owned several Stowas and sold them all. They were good watches, but cannot keep up with an inhouse calibre like the 32111 in the long run IME. My Omegas and Rolex ALL keep better time than the Stowas, are all tougher with respect to shock resistance, have a much longer warranty etc. I think the real weakness was that the MK18 had the Sellita movement. I would never have paid for that. If you want a Sellita movement, there are indeed MANY watches that are similar for a fraction of the money. I think the MK20 is different.


I see your point.
Mark 18’ price tag is a big ask. But I would not be surprised that Mark20 is at a ballpark of 8000$. If I have that much money to burn, and have no other watches on the wish list, it is fine.
For the pilot watch, I always recommend either IWC, or something with Sellita but cost less than 500$, hard to justify something in between.

by the way, I also bought and sold stowa.
The stowa I received is the least accurate watch among 20 or so purchases. It also has the worst case finish. In contrast I am happy with my 300$ Cronos, lost one second a day, and very well finished in terms of case, dial and hands.


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## Jamman

Gerrard8 said:


> Mark 18’ price tag is a big ask. But I would not be surprised that Mark20 is at a ballpark of 8000$.


I think it will be $5000-$6000. $8k is too much overlap with BP43 and a large price gap from spitfire


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## Kakemonster

Curious about the green color option. Hope it is more in the line of woodland green rather than racing green.


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## ctw19

My bet would be the green looks just like the dial of the new green BP43.


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## Kakemonster

ctw19 said:


> My bet would be the green looks just like the dial of the new green BP43.


Yeah, you are probably right. I wish they'd gone for a more military green.


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## antnyhng

It will be racing green. Hearing that all green dials (excluding the spitfire bronze green) will be boutique only from now on. 


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## Earl Grey

So many small, nice refinements, all cancelled out (imho) by two unfavorable ones on this black dial version (judging from the Korean video):

White date wheel
Polished bezel 

Fortunately one can still get the Pilot 36, which now strikes me as the far better version, Selitta movement or not. The black Mark XX also seems to be getting silver hands. Not my preference, but the 36 has them, too. 


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## JorgeB

Earl Grey said:


> So many small, nice refinements, all cancelled out (imho) by two unfavorable ones on this black dial version (judging from the Korean video):
> 
> White date wheel
> Polished bezel
> 
> Fortunately one can still get the Pilot 36, which now strikes me as the far better version, Selitta movement or not. The black Mark XX also seems to be getting silver hands. Not my preference, but the 36 has them, too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


i didn’t notice the silver hands, that’s a big deal breaker.Not-very legible.


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## Kakemonster

JorgeB said:


> i didn’t notice the silver hands, that’s a big deal breaker.Not-very legible.


I'm not yet sure how I feel about this change. A polished handset and bezel may give the watch some pop. But it is also kind of distracting. That being said I still miss the baton style handset.


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## Itgb

Flaafl said:


> I can speak Korean pretty fluently, and the video says it is the Caliber 32111, but he said "...a power reserve of 120 hours, so 5 days".
> 
> Other things I got from the video:
> 
> 51mm to 49mm lugs, and will be more sharply downturned versus the more "ladder-looking lugs" on the XVIII
> Thickness from 11mm to 10.8mm (a *decrease *in thickness after going from a 2892-clone to an in-house movement is pretty impressive)
> 10 bar water resistance, like you said
> Silicon balance adjusted to 5 positions
> Bracelet is coming, will be revealed in August I think
> Will use IWC's quick-change system for straps


Thanks for summarizing. That is a pretty substantial improvement over the MK18 and should wear better with the changes to the lugs. I was just at the IWC boutique last month commenting to the sales lady about the long lug issue so this is very exciting... can't wait to try one on.


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## ParkinNJ

Any info on whether the Mark XX dial will be all lumed similar to the Mark XVIII Heritage dial? Or are they sticking with only luming the cardinal markers?


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## O. Jones

ParkinNJ said:


> Any info on whether the Mark XX dial will be all lumed similar to the Mark XVIII Heritage dial? Or are they sticking with only luming the cardinal markers?


According to the comments section on that Korean video, it's exactly the same. Which is a personal bug bear of mine. I've never understood the minimal application on a Flieger that's supposed to be all about visibility. Nice enough updates otherwise, although that date wheel placement looks no better to me, and I'd prefer to keep the black disc (cheaper this way I suppose).


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## Flaafl

Itgb said:


> Thanks for summarizing. That is a pretty substantial improvement over the MK18 and should wear better with the changes to the lugs. I was just at the IWC boutique last month commenting to the sales lady about the long lug issue so this is very exciting... can't wait to try one on.


No problem. Yeah, these look exciting, I can't wait to hear more about them, especially how it looks on the bracelet.


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## Kakemonster

O. Jones said:


> According to the comments section on that Korean video, it's exactly the same. Which is a personal bug bear of mine. I've never understood the minimal application on a Flieger that's supposed to be all about visibility. Nice enough updates otherwise, although that date wheel placement looks no better to me, and I'd prefer to keep the black disc (cheaper this way I suppose).


I agree with the black date disc. Wish they stuck with it. The lume plots are faithful to the old marks, but in this day and age I think IWC should have updated this part of the design.


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## ivanos

Size maintained at 40 with shorter l2l. Wonder if this will have some proportion issue. Other than that I really like the strap quick change design. If price and proportion are right I may get a bracelet version and buy a strap.


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## trustmeiamanengineer

ivanos said:


> Size maintained at 40 with shorter l2l. Wonder if this will have some proportion issue. Other than that I really like the strap quick change design. If price and proportion are right I may get a bracelet version and buy a strap.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


one korean youtuber did post a vid showing a black mark xx on black, supposedly inside an iwc boutique. from that vidoe, you can hear a SA say that a bracelet version is 1300000 KRW (approx 1000 USD) extra, compared to standard strap version. Also, the video also suggests there is a blue dial version, but they will be no longer "Le Petit Prince".

Other interesting improvments are 10bar WR, thinner profile (10.83 vs 11mm), chunkier crown, and 120hr PR, per the video. 

I have to admit the font/dial looks more proportional, compared to mk 18, though I found the watch to be abit bland for my taste...


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## JorgeB

trustmeiamanengineer said:


> but they will be no longer "Le Petit Prince".


They cut the Jacques Cousteau foundation and now the Le Petit Prince, I wonder if this has to do with new marketing strategy or just cut costs.


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## ivanos

trustmeiamanengineer said:


> one korean youtuber did post a vid showing a black mark xx on black, supposedly inside an iwc boutique. from that vidoe, you can hear a SA say that a bracelet version is 1300000 KRW (approx 1000 USD) extra, compared to standard strap version. Also, the video also suggests there is a blue dial version, but they will be no longer "Le Petit Prince".
> 
> Other interesting improvments are 10bar WR, thinner profile (10.83 vs 11mm), chunkier crown, and 120hr PR, per the video.
> 
> I have to admit the font/dial looks more proportional, compared to mk 18, though I found the watch to be abit bland for my taste...


For me the case size/lug length proportion of Mark 18 is perfect. Its only issue for me is case size. If the case size and lug length can be reduced simultaneously with the same proportion maintained then it would be perfect overall.


----------



## MOLLE_UNDEAD

Hi guys, I had a nice and very interesting talk with the CEO of IWC at an event in Hamburg. He told me that the mark xx is coming as a next model - this year in June. As June is already over I assume that it won’t take that much time until they will launch the new model. So if the CEO is spreading this news with me, we can take his word  let’s give it some days. 💪


----------



## Earl Grey

JorgeB said:


> i didn’t notice the silver hands, that’s a big deal breaker.Not-very legible.


I don’t think it’s going to be a legibility issue, as the lume plots are huge. On the older Marks, the hour and minutes hands are matte black so they bend right into the dial and the only thing you can see are the lume plots. But the polished silver hands are a bit blingy for my taste. 


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## Earl Grey

O. Jones said:


> According to the comments section on that Korean video, it's exactly the same. Which is a personal bug bear of mine. I've never understood the minimal application on a Flieger that's supposed to be all about visibility. Nice enough updates otherwise, although that date wheel placement looks no better to me, and I'd prefer to keep the black disc (cheaper this way I suppose).


More isn’t necessarily better. My Oris ProPilot is my most legible watch at night, more so than my Seiko SKX, which has a reputation for awesome lume, exactly because the lume on the hour markers is weaker than the lume on the hands, making the hands stand out more. 


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## Earl Grey

ivanos said:


> For me the case size/lug length proportion of Mark 18 is perfect. Its only issue for me is case size. If the case size and lug length can be reduced simultaneously with the same proportion maintained then it would be perfect overall.


Have you looked at the Pilot 36? Sounds like that might work for you. 


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## MOLLE_UNDEAD

I was always in love with the mark series and so close to buy the 18. version. But I am so glad, that they are bringing out the xx now with in-house movement and 100 wr etc. All that what I have asked for in the past seems to be included now. I hope the black dial model is not too glossy at the end. Can’t wait to check it out in the boutique.


----------



## trustmeiamanengineer

ivanos said:


> For me the case size/lug length proportion of Mark 18 is perfect. Its only issue for me is case size. If the case size and lug length can be reduced simultaneously with the same proportion maintained then it would be perfect overall.


For most people, that 2mm lug to lug decrease, as well as a 40mm case, should provide more universal fit to general population, so i guess that is good for mark xx. However, I can see how mark xx lug shortening can make it look more like a generic dress watch, rather than the "military look" similar to, say, a Hamilton Khaki. 
Granted the quick release strap system, I still wish lug width is maintained at 20mm, to allow flexibiltiy in aftermarket options.


----------



## trustmeiamanengineer

JorgeB said:


> They cut the Jacques Cousteau foundation and now the Le Petit Prince, I wonder if this has to do with new marketing strategy or just cut costs.


probably both, and for the better. until mark 17, a Le Petit Prince actually meant something. I liked the look of mark 18 better than 17, but found the blue dial LPP to be pointless, at least to be called an LPP. okay, it is a differnet dial. it is not even a limited production. they have differnent dial design/color scheme. Then, there is the Antoine st.expury version, spitfire version, heritage version, top gun version...at least, these examples all have a "distinct feature", compared to the original version, to at least warrant such name. Then, there are ones like the laureus edition, which has nothing to do with the ingeniur line, the portugieser line, whatnot. Even then, I feel like there is too many versions of IWC pilots, which sadly distracts from the core model, and also, cheapens the value of being a "special edition". 

Sadly, this is not the problem with IWC. Montblanc does this with their pens now (LPP, fitzgerald version, mozart version, etc.), Omega with their weird olympic and space versions of their speedmasters and seamaster, same with Panerai (I mean, who the eff is guillaume nery, with due respect to all the divers). Hell, even whiskeys do this (Lagavulin Lannister version, Lagavulin Offerman editions, Macallan edition I to V). to me, all these examples are the ones marketed as special examples, with some of these special editions often charged (in terms of MSRP) hefty premium more than their original counter parts, yet offer no SIGNIFICANT changes or perks that justfiy over their core products (standard lagavulin 16, standard macallan 12 or 18 sherry, montblanc 146 meisterstuck, standard speedmaster, etc.). 

Granted, Rolex, PP and AP all play the same "special edition" tricks as well, but I think they use this trick in moderation, at least compared to above examples, at least enough not to distract the standard version from the spot light. the variants of these are minimal (like a dial or bezel change at most), with price delta never been significant, unless for a valid reason (such as ss vs gold vs platinum), and even among the variants, make it very difficult to change the dial/bezel after market part, via miniscule details, or by blatant throttling of parts and repairs. most importantly, their bread and butter standard models are already artificially throttled in the new market, with these variants more so, so again, the standard version is still on a spotlight. However, even these companies are now starting to cross the line (the destro gmt, tiffany nautilus, or two tone explorer 36) and I hope they start playing this variant card sparingly... 

As you see from here, I definitely had something to say or two about IWC, Omega and PANERAI's practice on producing "********" limited editions. After all, I like IWC, esp. big pilots, but when I could afford a watch, I always ended up having difficulty spending money on one, even used, for all the same reasons mentioned above, and end up with a different branded watch on my wrist. Sorry for a long rant, but I just dislike unnecessary storytelling.


----------



## ivanos

Earl Grey said:


> Have you looked at the Pilot 36? Sounds like that might work for you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the recommendation. Yes o noticed that one long ago. Just that I am not quite into its dial aesthetics (such as the outer ring etc) but prefer the dial aesthetic of Mark 18.

As to size, 36 for me is a bit small. “Pilot 37” or “Pilot 38” with the dial aesthetics and case/lug proportion of Mark 18 would be cool.


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## Kakemonster

trustmeiamanengineer said:


> For most people, that 2mm lug to lug decrease, as well as a 40mm case, should provide more universal fit to general population, so i guess that is good for mark xx. However, I can see how mark xx lug shortening can make it look more like a generic dress watch, rather than the "military look" similar to, say, a Hamilton Khaki.
> Granted the quick release strap system, I still wish lug width is maintained at 20mm, to allow flexibiltiy in aftermarket options.


Good point. I think though that 49mm lug to lug is still pretty long for a 40mm watch. I used to own the iwc spitfire automatic, and one of my main gripes with that watch was the disportional long lug to lug (50mm) for a 39mm watch. It just didn't look quite right to my eyes. Maybe IWC should have only reduced it to 50mm on the mark xx to better retain the flieger style. Time will tell.


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## trustmeiamanengineer

Kakemonster said:


> Good point. I think though that 49mm lug to lug is still pretty long for a 40mm watch. I used to own the iwc spitfire automatic, and one of my main gripes with that watch was the disportional long lug to lug (50mm) for a 39mm watch. It just didn't look quite right to my eyes. Maybe IWC should have only reduced it to 50mm on the mark xx to better retain the flieger style. Time will tell.


Time will tell indeed. imho, the one of the beauty of iwc mark series is that it is a strap monster. In the luxury watch segment, it may not beat panerai or speedy, when it comes to strap versatility, but I think it does come close. I even find the iwc pilot to be a better strap monster than a sub or other blk dial rolex sports watches (more on this later).
Indeed, where the lug holes are, rather than lug to lug matters more, when it comes to strap flexibiltiy. I mean, look at how speedmaster's lug hole is almost at the end, so that any strap you put on it, the watch looks flush! the IWC mk 18, as well as rolexes, sadly does not, as I find that IWC mk18 still has that fugly lug overhang, unless thicker or nato strap are used. Likewise, mk 18 looked a bit too tooly, that I personally could never see it in a gator or ostrich strap, unlike how speedy used to come with a gator skin for last gen. This, to me, is a minor personal nusiance that puts IWC a tad below omega, when it comes to strap versatility. Regardless, the dial color and simplicity, color wise, alllows the watch to look good in many nato or sporty boxy leather straps available in the market. Also, the 51mm lug to lug also allows you to pass through a nato strap, without having the watch float unnecessarily, while not looking aloof, if non-nato straps are used. Look at Hailton khaki mechanical. That watch only looks good on natos, as the lugs are too far apart from the case, so most normal straps result in this big void space between the lugs and the case.

I just hope that 49mm lug2lug, as well as more lug curvature and location of the lug, can maintain, if not enhance, the strap flexibilty. from the lug width and the curvature, I presume that even while still using straight spring bars, one should have enough space to slide a nato inside a mk20 effortlessly, without causing the watch to float excessively. for me, rolexes I played with needed curved spring bars, to barely slide a nato, which then would cause the watch to float a bit too much (hence I do not think of rolex as strap monster, compared to iwc pilots and speedmaster). maybe 50mm would have been better, for this reason, but as long as IWC's lug design still makes a mk xx a strap mosnter it is known to be, I will be happy


----------



## njhinde

I am sure the new Mark series will be fantastic, but I would have been interested in something like 38 - 39mm. They could have then dropped the 40mm and 36mm models and consolidated the collection a little. 

Anyway, IWC surely know what they're doing, so I am looking forward to seeing how the subtle changes affect the new series.


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## jerseytime

Saw the Mark XX in a boutique this week (and tried it on). Great watch. For me, date window still isn't "perfect", but it's totally fine (big improvement). Proportions much better all around. Excited to see what they do with it in terms of colors, straps, special editions, over the next year.


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## Earl Grey

ivanos said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. Yes o noticed that one long ago. Just that I am not quite into its dial aesthetics (such as the outer ring etc) but prefer the dial aesthetic of Mark 18.
> 
> As to size, 36 for me is a bit small. “Pilot 37” or “Pilot 38” with the dial aesthetics and case/lug proportion of Mark 18 would be cool.


The black dial 36 does not have a raised outer ring. The black dial is a very close match for the black dial XVIII, except for the better date placement, of course.  The hands though are silver, not black, but that appears true for the black XX, too. 

That said, I agree that a 38 would be a nice option to have. 


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## dberg

Can anybody explain why these are being teased in South Korea?


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## 1165dvd

dberg said:


> Can anybody explain why these are being teased in South Korea?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Makes little sense to me as well. We just had W&W a few months back. Seems like this release/update deserves a bigger splash. 


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## ctw19

It does seem odd to me that they are out there in a few places being shown to people since most brands keep new releases under a pretty tight lock and key until they're officially announced. The same thing seemed to happen with the green dial BP43. I noticed a few articles and pictures well ahead of IWC actually adding it to their website.


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## ivanos

For me with this move (to showcase new Mark only in Korea) IWC does not respect audience of other countries/markets enough.


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## antnyhng

It’s not being teased…people (all over the world) are buying them. There are multiple new watch posts on IWC facebook groups. ‘Launched’ last week. Go to your boutiques. Seems like IWC just isn’t that strong at marketing.


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## jerseytime

antnyhng said:


> It’s not being teased…people (all over the world) are buying them. There are multiple new watch posts on IWC facebook groups. ‘Launched’ last week. Go to your boutiques. Seems like IWC just isn’t that strong at marketing.


It's definitely a conscious choice by the company to roll them out without a big announcement, if a weird one. Maybe they just don't want the attention taken away from the much more expensive and exclusive Top Guns? Some kind of soft opening strategy, or time to troubleshoot anything? I assume that when they hit the website they'll be properly introduced.


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## antnyhng

jerseytime said:


> It's definitely a conscious choice by the company to roll them out without a big announcement, if a weird one. Maybe they just don't want the attention taken away from the much more expensive and exclusive Top Guns? Some kind of soft opening strategy, or time to troubleshoot anything? I assume that when they hit the website they'll be properly introduced.


Definitely a strange move considering the update to the Mark 18 is the release that so many people wanted for Watches and Wonders 2022. 

Also, there’s a new in house Chronograph 43 that’s been quietly released too. Guess everyone just has to go to their boutiques for details!


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## Kakemonster

It is not yet available for purchase via their website. I think it's only available in boutiques for now. Maybe after some time they will announce it and make it available via other retailers as well.


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## dberg

My only question is - this beauty or the 38 mm blue Aqua Terra. Like both on bracelet and rubber. Not even sure which mark XX dial I like the most with options of blue, black or white. Green is not an option. 


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## Kakemonster

dberg said:


> My only question is - this beauty or the 38 mm blue Aqua Terra. Like both on bracelet and rubber. Not even sure which mark XX dial I like the most with options of blue, black or white. Green is not an option.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think they are very different watches and can easily exist in the same collection. For IWC marks I always go with the black dial, although the blue is probably the most popular option.


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## drjmarc

I tried the blue Mark XX on in Toronto on June 25. I can confirm all the above statements on design, water resistance, movement with 120 hrs power reserve. The midnight blue leather strap with white stitching was gorgeous. I had them switch it from pin buckle to deployment clasp.


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## ivanos

drjmarc said:


> I tried the blue Mark XX on in Toronto on June 25. I can confirm all the above statements on design, water resistance, movement with 120 hrs power reserve. The midnight blue leather strap with white stitching was gorgeous. I had them switch it from pin buckle to deployment clasp.
> View attachment 16745448


With shorter lugs the dial seems to look even bigger….


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## Kakemonster

drjmarc said:


> I tried the blue Mark XX on in Toronto on June 25. I can confirm all the above statements on design, water resistance, movement with 120 hrs power reserve. The midnight blue leather strap with white stitching was gorgeous. I had them switch it from pin buckle to deployment clasp.
> View attachment 16745448


Looks great to my eyes!


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## dberg

Any news on the bracelet?


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## ctw19

dberg said:


> Any news on the bracelet?


It would be nice if it tapers a bit, like from 20 down to 18.


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## dberg

ctw19 said:


> It would be nice if it tapers a bit, like from 20 down to 18.


Agree with the taper. I'm also curious about the PCLs.


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## Earl Grey

dberg said:


> Agree with the taper. I'm also curious about the PCLs.


I don’t think you can taper a 5 link bracelet and have it look good. 

Unless you tapered each individual link a minuscule amount, and that would be cost prohibitive, as you’d have to machine about 50 different pieces. There are about 100 links in total, 50 on each side of the watch. 

If you look at other 5 link designs, like Omega Seamaster Professional, they don’t taper, either. 

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## Earl Grey

Kakemonster said:


> I think they are very different watches and can easily exist in the same collection. For IWC marks I always go with the black dial, although the blue is probably the most popular option.


Agreed. Those two plus a BB58 are my dream team. I’ll probably only ever get one of them, but if I had $15000 to burn on watches I’d get those 3 (actually I’d get a Mark XVI or Pilot 36 instead of the XX, but close enough). 


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## Toolwatchmd

Earl Grey said:


> I don’t think you can taper a 5 link bracelet and have it look good.
> 
> Unless you tapered each individual link a minuscule amount, and that would be cost prohibitive, as you’d have to machine about 50 different pieces. There are about 100 links in total, 50 on each side of the watch.
> 
> If you look at other 5 link designs, like Omega Seamaster Professional, they don’t taper, either.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Rolex Jubilee has a taper. Doesn’t the new BP43 bracelet have a slight taper?


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## dberg

Earl Grey said:


> I don’t think you can taper a 5 link bracelet and have it look good.
> 
> Unless you tapered each individual link a minuscule amount, and that would be cost prohibitive, as you’d have to machine about 50 different pieces. There are about 100 links in total, 50 on each side of the watch.
> 
> If you look at other 5 link designs, like Omega Seamaster Professional, they don’t taper, either.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Both the 41 mm chrono and 43 mm BP have bracelets that taper.


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## dberg

Earl Grey said:


> Agreed. Those two plus a BB58 are my dream team. I’ll probably only ever get one of them, but if I had $15000 to burn on watches I’d get those 3 (actually I’d get a Mark XVI or Pilot 36 instead of the XX, but close enough).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But -- if you had to pick one . . . the Omega AT or IWC XX? And, if Mark XX, black or blue. For me, beginning to think Mark XX black > blue.


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## Kakemonster

I don't understand IWC marketing strategy for the mark xx. Evidently it is only available in boutiques for the moment, but there has been no advertisement behind this - not even a Hodinkee article.

Thus, only people who happen to visit a boutique may accidentally stumble on to the new mark. I doubt most people actually follow watch forums or facebook groups and are aware that the new mark actually exists.


----------



## Toolwatchmd

Kakemonster said:


> I don't understand IWC marketing strategy for the mark xx. Evidently it is only available in boutiques for the moment, but there has been no advertisement behind this - not even a Hodinkee article.
> 
> Thus, only people who happen to visit a boutique may accidentally stumble on to the new mark. I doubt most people actually follow watch forums or facebook groups and are aware that the new mark actually exists.


I’m wondering if they knew about the recent Tudor release and decided to wait until the hysteria died down over that. Anything Rolex and Tudor does tends to take all the air out of the room. The Mark watches are popular, but would get completely buried under the media reactions to the Tudor news.

Just speculation…


----------



## Earl Grey

dberg said:


> Both the 41 mm chrono and 43 mm BP have bracelets that taper.


Interesting. I stand corrected. Wonder how they did that? can’t find a photo, so if someone has one please post. 


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## Earl Grey

Earl Grey said:


> Interesting. I stand corrected. Wonder how they did that? can’t find a good photo of the bracelet, so if someone has one please post.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I see now that all of those have center links that are more narrow at the end links than the outer links. That allows them to taper only the outer links without it looking strange. Maybe they will do that for the Mark XX, but on the Mark XVIII all the links are equally wide at the end links, and the bracelet doesn’t taper as a result. 


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## Earl Grey

dberg said:


> But -- if you had to pick one . . . the Omega AT or IWC XX? And, if Mark XX, black or blue. For me, beginning to think Mark XX black > blue.


IWC Pilot 36 black! Don’t like the white date on the Mark XX, nor the polished bezel. Don’t like the polished bezel on the Aqua Terra either. 


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## dberg

Is the polished bezel on the XX new? I thought they had done that on the blue XVIII. Not sure about the bezel on the black XVIII. 


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## Earl Grey

dberg said:


> Is the polished bezel on the XX new? I thought they had done that on the blue XVIII. Not sure about the bezel on the black XVIII.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was already polished on the colored dial mark xviii. But not on the black dial one. 

Mark XX is the first Mark to get a polished bezel with the matte black dial. It’s too bad, imho. 

(Not my photos)

Blue dial, polished bezel









Black dial, brushed bezel










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## dberg

Doesn't bother me much . . . the watch is still very very low key . . . still less bling than, say, an Explorer. With the polished bezel on both the black and blue Mark XX, that suggests we are going to get PCLs on the bracelet. Did they do the same finishing on the BP 43? Polished bezels on both the black and blue? And, now with the Mark XX -- is there an argument for the BP 43? Certainly, the BP 43 Spitfire stands apart, but what about the others? Interested in thoughts on this.


----------



## Kakemonster

dberg said:


> Doesn't bother me much . . . the watch is still very very low key . . . still less bling than, say, an Explorer. With the polished bezel on both the black and blue Mark XX, that suggests we are going to get PCLs on the bracelet. Did they do the same finishing on the BP 43? Polished bezels on both the black and blue? And, now with the Mark XX -- is there an argument for the BP 43? Certainly, the BP 43 Spitfire stands apart, but what about the others? Interested in thoughts on this.


After looking at some pictures, it seems the case finish on the blue and black dial bp43 is pretty much identical, both have polished bezels. 

This may indicate that they are going with PCLs on the bracelet for both the blue and black mark xx. However, I would personally greatly prefer a fully brushed bracelet for the black dial mark.


----------



## Parappa_the_snacka

Thinking about going for a second hand Mark XVIII...would now would be a "dumb" time to buy one? Any thoughts on if the value will drop significantly because of the mark XX coming?


----------



## FREG

drjmarc said:


> I tried the blue Mark XX on in Toronto on June 25. I can confirm all the above statements on design, water resistance, movement with 120 hrs power reserve. The midnight blue leather strap with white stitching was gorgeous. I had them switch it from pin buckle to deployment clasp.
> View attachment 16745448


may i ask what you’re wrist size is?


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## FREG

this looks very interesting, strange how they are rolling them out, do you think i can just go to any boutique and they will have them? the new 120 h movement, 10atm , lugs, very intriguing , really liked the dial and titanium of the herritage


----------



## wkw

Got a call from local IWC boutique. 

Both Mark XX and 43mm pilot chronograph with in-house movement are now in stock. Unfortunately there is no sample of bracelet option for now. 

Looking forward to check them out…


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## Kakemonster

FREG said:


> this looks very interesting, strange how they are rolling them out, do you think i can just go to any boutique and they will have them? the new 120 h movement, 10atm , lugs, very intriguing , really liked the dial and titanium of the herritage


Pretty much looks like you can atm. If not, then it would be interesting to hear why not.


----------



## FREG

very interested to see photos of other dials, very excited, so that i understand this correctly you can most likely try them on and buy them in boutiques


----------



## ShaGaL

I just received email directly from IWC. They send me confirmed improvements and msrp, also few pictures. They didnt mention any official release date or when they will be availible in AD. But in IWC boutiques they are already availible.

- The Pilot's Watch Mark XX will now have an IWC Manufacture Movement Cal. 32111
- A new Water Resistance of 10 bar

Reworked dial graphics with rhodium hands
Slightly shorter lugs for improved ergonomics
Enriched Case Finishing
The Eas-Xchange Strap Change System
A new slimmer, tapered metal bracelet

MSRP for stainless steel bracelet is 6200 CHF and for leather strap 5200CHF


----------



## vijay

ShaGaL said:


> I just received email directly from IWC. They send me confirmed improvements and msrp, also few pictures. They didnt mention any official release date or when they will be availible in AD. But in IWC boutiques they are already availible.
> 
> 
> The Pilot's Watch Mark XX will now have an IWC Manufacture Movement Cal. 32111
> A new Water Resistance of 10 bar
> 
> 
> Reworked dial graphics with rhodium hands
> Slightly shorter lugs for improved ergonomics
> Enriched Case Finishing
> The Eas-Xchange Strap Change System
> A new slimmer, tapered metal bracelet
> 
> MSRP for stainless steel bracelet is 6200 CHF and for leather strap 5200CHF
> View attachment 16759489
> View attachment 16759490


It seems there are lot of positive improvements made over the present Mark18. Unfortunately would have preferred white digit on black for date, blacked out hands, brushed bezel as well as brushed bracelet like existing one for the black dial.It seems that this difference wont be there for the black dial now compared to blue dial which is a shame. Also would have preferred fully lumed numerals like one in Big Pilot 43.


----------



## FREG

any news??


----------



## vijay

FREG said:


> any news??


I saw this on one of the posts in an IWC FB group:-


Pilot's Watch Mark XX available options. 


The Pilot's Watch Mark XX will now have an IWC Manufacture Movement Cal. 32111
A new Water Resistance of 10 bar
Reworked dial graphics with rhodium hands
Slightly shorter lugs for improved ergonomics
Enriched Case Finishing
The Eas-Xchange Strap Change System
A new slimmer, tapered metal bracelet

The stunning Pilot's Watch Mark XX is available in the following nuances:


with a Black Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Black Calf Leather strap.
with a Blue Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Blue Calf Leather strap.
with a Green Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Brown Calf Leather strap.
with a White Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Black Calf Leather strap.


----------



## FREG

vijay said:


> I saw this on one of the posts in an IWC FB group:-
> 
> 
> Pilot's Watch Mark XX available options.
> 
> 
> The Pilot's Watch Mark XX will now have an IWC Manufacture Movement Cal. 32111
> A new Water Resistance of 10 bar
> Reworked dial graphics with rhodium hands
> Slightly shorter lugs for improved ergonomics
> Enriched Case Finishing
> The Eas-Xchange Strap Change System
> A new slimmer, tapered metal bracelet
> 
> The stunning Pilot's Watch Mark XX is available in the following nuances:
> 
> 
> with a Black Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Black Calf Leather strap.
> with a Blue Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Blue Calf Leather strap.
> with a Green Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Brown Calf Leather strap.
> with a White Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Black Calf Leather strap.


thanks. i am looking forward to seeing the green and white dial, do you know if the hands are the same on all dials?


----------



## vijay

FREG said:


> thanks. i am looking forward to seeing the green and white dial, do you know if the hands are the same on all dials?


Sorry. No idea with regard to the same as I have only shared what I saw in one of the FB posts. Not even sure whether it is true or not but hopefully it should be true. Fingers crossed and we might find out a lot more details in the coming days. 😊


----------



## FREG

I am very excited, perhaps i have to visit a boutique. anyone have a idea when the will officially announce it?


----------



## Krcnoble

Mark XX in the pic- was at the IWC boutique here in Toronto.

Wears so much better than the Mark XVIII.
$6500 cad + tax though

Previous model was $5650 cad + tax 


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## Krcnoble

Krcnoble said:


> Mark XX in the pic- was at the IWC boutique here in Toronto.
> 
> Wears so much better than the Mark XVIII.
> $6500 cad + tax though
> 
> Previous model was $5650 cad + tax
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


****ty pic but in comparison to the old Mark XVIII










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----------



## FREG

Krcnoble said:


> Mark XX in the pic- was at the IWC boutique here in Toronto.
> 
> Wears so much better than the Mark XVIII.
> $6500 cad + tax though
> 
> Previous model was $5650 cad + tax
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i am very excited, could you have bought it if you wanted to? they have not released the new bracelet yet correct? very strange how they are handling this…


----------



## Kakemonster

Krcnoble said:


> Mark XX in the pic- was at the IWC boutique here in Toronto.
> 
> Wears so much better than the Mark XVIII.
> $6500 cad + tax though
> 
> Previous model was $5650 cad + tax
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting seeing it lying side by side with the GS sea of clouds. Doesn't really look that much bigger. Expected that there would be a price increase with the new models.


----------



## Krcnoble

FREG said:


> i am very excited, could you have bought it if you wanted to? they have not released the new bracelet yet correct? very strange how they are handling this…


It was for sale. I didn't buy it cause it's not my thing but yes, it's weird that IWC hasn't said anything about this model yet it's up for grabs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Krcnoble

Kakemonster said:


> Interesting seeing it lying side by side with the GS sea of clouds. Doesn't really look that much bigger. Expected that there would be a price increase with the new models.


Feels bigger due to the dial size. Still much better than the previous model though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FREG

Krcnoble said:


> It was for sale. I didn't buy it cause it's not my thing but yes, it's weird that IWC hasn't said anything about this model yet it's up for grabs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thanks


----------



## FREG

has anybody seen the green dial, i have not seen a picture of that one yet, only the blue and black, will there also be a white dial?


----------



## ctw19

I wouldn't be surprised if green is in the pipeline but comes later on. It's what happened with the BP43.


----------



## tikander

I suspect the lack of marketing can relate to production line ramp up. One has to consider these will probably sell in larger volumes than most IWC being a more suitable size (though I feel still 2mm too much), a popular line item, and at the lower end of the price range. So what you don't want is to overpromise and underdeliver. I think IWC are great in marketing, and these are selling just enough now (with community hype) to allow production to keep up and ramp up. There's time later to kick in the big gears once IWC themselves are ready.


----------



## Krcnoble

ctw19 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if green is in the pipeline but comes later on. It's what happened with the BP43.


Boutique confirmed to me that there will be four colours.

Blue, black, green, white 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FREG

has anyone seen the green or white dial? I think there have not been any pictures of them yet.


----------



## Kakemonster

tikander said:


> I suspect the lack of marketing can relate to production line ramp up. One has to consider these will probably sell in larger volumes than most IWC being a more suitable size (though I feel still 2mm too much), a popular line item, and at the lower end of the price range. So what you don't want is to overpromise and underdeliver. I think IWC are great in marketing, and these are selling just enough now (with community hype) to allow production to keep up and ramp up. There's time later to kick in the big gears once IWC themselves are ready.


I am hoping that this is in fact the main reason why we haven't seen any marketing on this new model for the moment. In the past my experience IWC have been very slow with actually getting their watches distributed in stores after an announcement.


----------



## ispeshaled

Looks like the black and blue dial are listed on the IWC US website now for $5250 on strap.


----------



## cerberus63

I went to an authorized IWC dealer this morning. This was before the black and blue dials were posted on the IWC website. I inquired about the Mark XX. The dealer did not know when he would be receiving them in store. He also stated that he did not realize how much information was already out on the web concerning the new model. He was really cool and said since the news was already out there he would show the official paperwork from IWC. He pulled up his email and showed me the watches. In addition to the black and the blue dial, there was indeed a white dial. However, he received no information about a green dial model at all. There was nothing in the paperwork he showed me, no pictures. He speculated that if it was going to be released in a green dial it might be a boutique only edition


----------



## antnyhng

cerberus63 said:


> I went to an authorized IWC dealer this morning. This was before the black and blue dials were posted on the IWC website. I inquired about the Mark XX. The dealer did not know when he would be receiving them in store. He also stated that he did not realize how much information was already out on the web concerning the new model. He was really cool and said since the news was already out there he would show the official paperwork from IWC. He pulled up his email and showed me the watches. In addition to the black and the blue dial, there was indeed a white dial. However, he received no information about a green dial model at all. There was nothing in the paperwork he showed me, no pictures. He speculated that if it was going to be released in a green dial it might be a boutique only edition


I heard from my boutique that as of a few months ago, going forward all racing green dials will be boutique only. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ctw19

It seems like this is a sleeper hit. No marketing or fanfare at all (so far at least) but the specs and subtle upgrades are just so good, especially when you consider the Big Pilot 43 has half the power reserve, same water resistance, no date complication and costs over $3,000 more. After a recent addition to my collection last month, I thought I'd be done buying for a while. This one is going to be hard to resist though!


----------



## viurar

Happy to join in again as the thread opener to announce that it's officially listed on all IWC online shops.

Strap version for $ 5250 / € 5500.

Everything else as said already by preposters.

Seems to be available online only in the US at the moment.


----------



## FREG

asked iwc online they said the blue and the black dial where the only ones at the moment no info about the green or black, has anyone seen the green or white dials in the flesh? or have info when the are coming. interested to see the green dial


----------



## Kakemonster

viurar said:


> Happy to join in again as the thread opener to announce that it's officially listed on all IWC online shops.
> 
> Strap version for $ 5250 / € 5500.
> 
> Everything else as said already by preposters.
> 
> Seems to be available online only in the US at the moment.


Hoping this is a sign that an announcement is soon incoming. Curious to see the bracelet options.


----------



## vijay

Kakemonster said:


> Hoping this is a sign that an announcement is soon incoming. Curious to see the bracelet options.


Yes. Anyone has any idea or spoke with the boutique executives as to when the easy X change bracelet options would be made available for the Mark XX ?


----------



## wkw

I paid a visit to IWC boutique and finally checked out the Mark XX and the new (to me) 43mm pilot chronograph with in house movement. 

XX with blue dial sold out instantly. Boutique staff mentioned the color tone is similar to that in 41mm chronograph. 

I was more interested to see the bracelet. However, I was told the delivery time will be in Q.4 2022. 



















Here’s a shot with my tribute to Mk Xl.












Sorry for the port picture quality.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kakemonster

The black dial looks really nice. Same diameter as your tribute model, but somehow looks smaller. The crown is noticeable bigger though.


----------



## FREG

wkw said:


> I paid a visit to IWC boutique and finally checked out the Mark XX and the new (to me) 43mm pilot chronograph with in house movement.
> 
> XX with blue dial sold out instantly. Boutique staff mentioned the color tone is similar to that in 41mm chronograph.
> 
> I was more interested to see the bracelet. However, I was told the delivery time will be in Q.4 2022.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s a shot with my tribute to Mk Xl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for the port picture quality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thanks, did they give you any info on the green dial


----------



## wkw

Kakemonster said:


> The black dial looks really nice. Same diameter as your tribute model, but somehow looks smaller. The crown is noticeable bigger though.


I agree the XX looks slightly smaller, possibly because of the shorter lug as mentioned by other posters. Also the watch looks small on strap. 

I’m looking forward to see one with bracelet…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## wkw

FREG said:


> thanks, did they give you any info on the green dial


Yes FREG. I asked for dial color option and they confirmed black, blue dials have already been delivered and they will get white one later.

Green dial is reserved as a boutique edition. However, they are not sure about delivery details. 

Thanks 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Kakemonster

Article about the mark xx now up at Hodinkee. Doesn't seem like they have been in contact with IWC though. The article doesn't mention anything regarding white and green dial options nor the metal bracelet (people in the comment section are complaining about its absence). It also doesn't mention the reduced lug to lug design.

Very strange that IWC doesn't address this with their own press release. It is not good to let these inaccurate news to fester.


----------



## njhinde

Chris Graingerherr casually posted the blue XX on Instagram recently. He also answered a question about whether the 36 will receive updates, saying “yes, in due course”. Maybe the 36 also gets a new movement?


----------



## ctw19

Do we have anyone here with the Photoshop skills to adjust the blue dial XX to a dark green to give us a little sneak peak of what that upcoming (supposedly) boutique edition will look like?


----------



## dberg

dberg said:


> Doesn't bother me much . . . the watch is still very very low key . . . still less bling than, say, an Explorer. With the polished bezel on both the black and blue Mark XX, that suggests we are going to get PCLs on the bracelet. Did they do the same finishing on the BP 43? Polished bezels on both the black and blue? And, now with the Mark XX -- is there an argument for the BP 43? Certainly, the BP 43 Spitfire stands apart, but what about the others? Interested in thoughts on this.


Restating my question from above. What is the argument for the BP 43? The Mark XX wears better on a 7 inch wrist, has a longer power reserve and is less expensive. I do like the dial markings better on the BP 43 with the larger hatches at each numeral and no date. To me, the argument for the BP 43 is wrist presence. It comes at a cost of a bigger watch that may not be as comfortable as as the Mark XX and a dial that some might think has too much negative space. Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kakemonster

I have yet to see the big pilot 43mm and the mark xx in person, hence it is hard for me to compare the two.

I expect the bg43 to be better finished, at least when it comes to the movement. It is arguably more iconic and regonizeable than the mark xx. The bg43 is perhaps also more historically correct, whilst the mark xx has changed several key features prominent for the mark series originally (baton style hands, no dots next to triangle, font etc.)

That being said, in terms of specs and prize alone, the mark xx is definitely the better option (longer power reserve, anti-magnetic, cheaper). I'd personally go for the mark xx between the two, simply because of the size alone.


----------



## ATXWatch

Kakemonster said:


> I have yet to see the big pilot 43mm and the mark xx in person, hence it is hard for me to compare the two.
> 
> I expect the bg43 to be better finished, at least when it comes to the movement. It is arguably more iconic and regonizeable than the mark xx. The bg43 is perhaps also more historically correct, whilst the mark xx has changed several key features prominent for the mark series originally (baton style hands, no dots next to triangle, font etc.)
> 
> That being said, in terms of specs and prize alone, the mark xx is definitely the better option (longer power reserve, anti-magnetic, cheaper). I'd personally go for the mark xx between the two, simply because of the size alone.


The other issue is that the MkXX can be worn in formal AND informal circumstances (especially by changing the strap). The BP43 will always be limited in that way because it is too big and sporty for that to be possible. My 2 cents.


----------



## Kakemonster

ATXWatch said:


> The other issue is that the MkXX can be worn in formal AND informal circumstances (especially by changing the strap). The BP43 will always be limited in that way because it is too big and sporty for that to be possible. My 2 cents.


Indeed. The bg43 will be tough to be pull as a dresswatch, unless you have big wrists or want to make a statement.


----------



## vijay

dberg said:


> Restating my question from above. What is the argument for the BP 43? The Mark XX wears better on a 7 inch wrist, has a longer power reserve and is less expensive. I do like the dial markings better on the BP 43 with the larger hatches at each numeral and no date. To me, the argument for the BP 43 is wrist presence. It comes at a cost of a bigger watch that may not be as comfortable as as the Mark XX and a dial that some might think has too much negative space. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> [/QUOT
> 
> Other than what you have mentioned above with regard to for arguments I can add 2 more - display caseback so one can look at the movement plus this is the big one - that sexy turnip shaped crown ( I would have preferred that crown but at a slightly smaller scale for Mark series )


----------



## vijay

dberg said:


> Restating my question from above. What is the argument for the BP 43? The Mark XX wears better on a 7 inch wrist, has a longer power reserve and is less expensive. I do like the dial markings better on the BP 43 with the larger hatches at each numeral and no date. To me, the argument for the BP 43 is wrist presence. It comes at a cost of a bigger watch that may not be as comfortable as as the Mark XX and a dial that some might think has too much negative space. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Other than what you have mentioned above with regard to for arguments I can add 2 more - display caseback so one can look at the movement plus this is the big one - that sexy turnip shaped crown ( I would have preferred that crown but at a slightly smaller scale for Mark series )


----------



## FREG

sorry to be asking this again.. I heard that some have seen photos of the green dial but have not seen anything yet, has anyone seen or heard anything about the white or especially the green dial


----------



## Knisse

Good question FREG, i have only seen or heard talk about Blue and Black..


----------



## Mullmuzzler

From "*IWC SCHAFFHAUSEN Watch Owners*" FB group:

_Pilot's Watch Mark XX available options. 

The Pilot's Watch Mark XX will now have an IWC Manufacture Movement Cal. 32111
A new Water Resistance of 10 bar
Reworked dial graphics with rhodium hands
Slightly shorter lugs for improved ergonomics
Enriched Case Finishing
The Eas-Xchange Strap Change System
A new slimmer, tapered metal bracelet
The stunning Pilot's Watch Mark XX is available in the following nuances:

with a Black Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Black Calf Leather strap.
with a Blue Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Blue Calf Leather strap.
with a Green Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Brown Calf Leather strap.
with a White Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Black Calf Leather strap.
_


----------



## 4fiftynine

wkw said:


> I paid a visit to IWC boutique and finally checked out the Mark XX and the new (to me) 43mm pilot chronograph with in house movement.
> 
> XX with blue dial sold out instantly. Boutique staff mentioned the color tone is similar to that in 41mm chronograph.
> 
> I was more interested to see the bracelet. However, I was told the delivery time will be in Q.4 2022.


_Edited for formatting _

Great photos! A little OT, but any idea if the lugs on the updated Pilot Chrono also got a redesign?


----------



## FREG

Mullmuzzler said:


> From "*IWC SCHAFFHAUSEN Watch Owners*" FB group:
> 
> _Pilot's Watch Mark XX available options.
> _
> 
> _
> The Pilot's Watch Mark XX will now have an IWC Manufacture Movement Cal. 32111
> A new Water Resistance of 10 bar
> Reworked dial graphics with rhodium hands
> Slightly shorter lugs for improved ergonomics
> Enriched Case Finishing
> The Eas-Xchange Strap Change System
> A new slimmer, tapered metal bracelet
> _
> _The stunning Pilot's Watch Mark XX is available in the following nuances:
> _
> 
> _
> with a Black Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Black Calf Leather strap.
> with a Blue Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Blue Calf Leather strap.
> with a Green Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Brown Calf Leather strap.
> with a White Dial, and a complimentary Stainless Steel Bracelet or Black Calf Leather strap.
> _


thanks, looks like they are existing/coming I think in some thread here ( sorry i do not remember) someone wrote they’re ad ( not boutique) also had documentation about the white dial, but the green dial was probably boutique exclusive, and someone wrote they saw pictures of the green dial, I am really waiting for the green dial. strange..


----------



## cerberus63

FREG said:


> thanks, looks like they are existing/coming I think in some thread here ( sorry i do not remember) someone wrote they’re ad ( not boutique) also had documentation about the white dial, but the green dial was probably boutique exclusive, and someone wrote they saw pictures of the green dial, I am really waiting for the green dial. strange..


I believe that was me who posted about the documentation. However, I did not write the AD, I actually went in and he showed me all the paperwork he had received from IWC. It contained the black, blue, and white dialed versions of the Mark XX. There was no green dial in his paperwork. While I was curious about the Mark XX. I was more interested in the Big Pilot 43 in green, as I had tried one on the New York boutique. He said he would contact his representative and find out if he could source the watch for me. After several days he informed me he could not get me that watch, it would be strictly boutique only. This led him to believe that the Mark XX, if released in green, would also be boutique only. This might be why there is a lack of information on it at this point.


----------



## FREG

cerberus63 said:


> I believe that was me who posted about the documentation. However, I did not write the AD, I actually went in and he showed me all the paperwork he had received from IWC. It contained the black, blue, and white dialed versions of the Mark XX. There was no green dial in his paperwork. While I was curious about the Mark XX. I was more interested in the Big Pilot 43 in green, as I had tried one on the New York boutique. He said he would contact his representative and find out if he could source the watch for me. After several days he informed me he could not get me that watch, it would be strictly boutique only. This led him to believe that the Mark XX, if released in green, would also be boutique only. This might be why there is a lack of information on it at this point.


thanks for elaborating, that with the green dial sound logical, a bit strange that to my knowledge there is also not much out there about the white dial


----------



## wkw

4fiftynine said:


> _Edited for formatting _
> 
> Great photos! A little OT, but any idea if the lugs on the updated Pilot Chrono also got a redesign?


I visited IWC again yesterday and check out the lug design of the new 43mm pilot chronograph.

There are subtle changes at the end of the lugs, looked a little wider to me. However, the changes seemed subtle and hard to tell unless you compare both new and old models together.

One on the right is the new model.











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wkw

Here is a picture of the blue XX.

The color tone is pleasing. Unfortunately I forgot to ask for a side by side comparison with the XVlll LPP.

I’m a big fan of the Mark series so I am interested to add an XX. I’ll probably wait for the bracelet version. Also I’m interested to check out the while dial variant when available.











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mondo Shizmo

drjmarc said:


> I tried the blue Mark XX on in Toronto on June 25. I can confirm all the above statements on design, water resistance, movement with 120 hrs power reserve. The midnight blue leather strap with white stitching was gorgeous. I had them switch it from pin buckle to deployment clasp.
> View attachment 16745448


Looks great! What is your wrist size if you don’t mind me asking?


----------



## FREG

any news on the green and white dial? wonder when a press model will be available so reviews with them in hand will apear


----------



## CasualAbuser

ivanos said:


> The new Mark with 38 mm size and in-house movement? (Sorry I was just dreaming)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Oh, you mean the new revolutionary 37mm Mark with a JLC movement, easX bracelet and the Mark XI dial?


----------



## Adil861

The difference between Mark xx and spitfire in terms of dial and size.


----------



## BigPilot5002

Both very cool watches. Can't go wrong with either. I would choose the Mark XX.


----------



## Kakemonster

Interesting to see the side by side comparison between the spitfire and the mark xx. I used to own the spitfire and one of my gripes was that the 50mm lug to lug length didn't feel right for the smaller watch diameter of 39mm. The mark xx seems more balanced in that regard.


----------



## Adil861

Kakemonster said:


> Interesting to see the side by side comparison between the spitfire and the mark xx. I used to own the spitfire and one of my gripes was that the 50mm lug to lug length didn't feel right for the smaller watch diameter of 39mm. The mark xx seems more balanced in that regard.


I think you’ll like it. The mark xx lug to lug is slightly smaller than the spitfire.


----------



## Hackmartian

I ended up swapping my XVIII for the XX and one thing that's been significantly downgraded is the strap. Compared to the brown calfskin that came with the Mark XVIII Le Petit Prince, the quick-exchange that comes on the blue Mark XX is stiff, uncomfortable, feels cheap, and doesn't compliment the color of the dial nearly as well. I picked up the older calfskin strap for my XX and the whole combination feels right.


----------



## Kakemonster

Hackmartian said:


> I ended up swapping my XVIII for the XX and one thing that's been significantly downgraded is the strap. Compared to the brown calfskin that came with the Mark XVIII Le Petit Prince, the quick-exchange that comes on the blue Mark XX is stiff, uncomfortable, feels cheap, and doesn't compliment the color of the dial nearly as well. I picked up the older calfskin strap for my XX and the whole combination feels right.
> View attachment 16853971
> View attachment 16853971


I've heard others people say the same. I'll probably follow your advice and buy the older straps when I pick up the xx.


----------



## Hackmartian

Kakemonster said:


> I've heard others people say the same. I'll probably follow your advice and buy the older straps when I pick up the xx.


FWIW, even the salesperson at the IWC boutique said he didn’t like the new straps when I went in to purchase the brown calfskin. The brown vs blue is obviously subjective (though, IMO, “blue dial gets blue strap” is a a pretty amateurish design choice), but the comfort and quality of the leather between the new and old straps is an obvious let-down, especially given just how comfortable IWC’s calfskin straps are.


----------



## Incis0r

Hackmartian said:


> FWIW, even the salesperson at the IWC boutique said he didn’t like the new straps when I went in to purchase the brown calfskin. The brown vs blue is obviously subjective (though, IMO, “blue dial gets blue strap” is a a pretty amateurish design choice), but the comfort and quality of the leather between the new and old straps is an obvious let-down, especially given just how comfortable IWC’s calfskin straps are.


Just to clarify, are you comparing to new quick-release straps to the stock IWC calfskin straps or the Santoni ones?


----------



## dberg

vijay said:


> Other than what you have mentioned above with regard to for arguments I can add 2 more - display caseback so one can look at the movement plus this is the big one - that sexy turnip shaped crown ( I would have preferred that crown but at a slightly smaller scale for Mark series )


Having had some time to think about it - here is what I say. While I’m typically interested in 39-41 mm watches, there is something a little “pedestrian” about the XX. I think that given the simplicity of the pilot design, the size IS part of what makes the BO aesthetic appealing. You have this simple understated design rendered in a bold form factor. It pulls me in, despite the size. Not sure whether I would like it or hate it though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## immerschnell

dberg said:


> Having had some time to think about it - here is what I say. While I’m typically interested in 39-41 mm watches, there is something a little “pedestrian” about the XX. I think that given the simplicity of the pilot design, the size IS part of what makes the BO aesthetic appealing. You have this simple understated design rendered in a bold form factor. It pulls me in, despite the size. Not sure whether I would like it or hate it though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Think you are right


----------



## CasualAbuser

Would you be guys into a new IWC Mark XXI with the following?

1. Same dial and as the Mark XI or Mark XII, **** maybe even an option for you to choose whether you want a dang date window or not. (I would opt for no)


















2. In house movement

3. Steel bracelet option their new EASX-CHANGE system

4. The following sizes: classic 36mm, 38mm for today, and a 41mm for the Big Wrist Bois

Am I the only one who wants this? I've spent an unhealthy amount of time trying to wish this into existence.

Oh btw, for all anyone sickos who were wondering, the bracelet for the current Pilot 36 will probably NOT fit on a vintage Mark XII. The Pilot 36 bracelet, at 17.945mm is juuuuust a smidge wider than the Mark XII, at 17.7mm.


----------



## Snowstrm

Went to my AD today to see the Mark XX with metal bracelet (IW328202) which they kindly had reserved for me. I have attached some photos below. Sorry about the quality, the lighting wasn’t the best for photographing.

I really like the new bracelet with that small tapering. It also has the new quick change system which you can see on the photos. Otherwise it is very similar than the bracelet that comes with the Mark XVIII with polished 2nd and 4th link and quick adjustment on the clasp.

I decided to go with the blue dial version so I placed my order for the blue one with metal bracelet (IW328204) and ordered blue rubber strap for it as well.They haven’t received any blue ones with metal bracelet yet but I’ll get the first one they’ll receive.

It is really strange that the metal bracelet versions are still not on the IWC website and you can’t find any information about them online.


----------



## CasualAbuser

Snowstrm said:


> Went to my AD today to see the Mark XX with metal bracelet (IW328202) which they kindly had reserved for me. I have attached some photos below. Sorry about the quality, the lighting wasn’t the best for photographing.
> 
> I really like the new bracelet with that small tapering. It also has the new quick change system which you can see on the photos. Otherwise it is very similar than the bracelet that comes with the Mark XVIII with polished 2nd and 4th link and quick adjustment on the clasp.
> 
> I decided to go with the blue dial version so I placed my order for the blue one with metal bracelet (IW328204) and ordered blue rubber strap for it as well.They haven’t received any blue ones with metal bracelet yet but I’ll get the first one they’ll receive.
> 
> It is really strange that the metal bracelet versions are still not on the IWC website and you can’t find any information about them online.


Looks good and that bracelet is sweet!

how big is your wrist?


----------



## Snowstrm

CasualAbuser said:


> Looks good and that bracelet is sweet!
> 
> how big is your wrist?


I agree! My wrist is ~18cm which is around 7.1”.


----------



## ctw19

Snowstrm said:


> Went to my AD today to see the Mark XX with metal bracelet (IW328202) which they kindly had reserved for me. I have attached some photos below. Sorry about the quality, the lighting wasn’t the best for photographing.
> 
> I really like the new bracelet with that small tapering. It also has the new quick change system which you can see on the photos. Otherwise it is very similar than the bracelet that comes with the Mark XVIII with polished 2nd and 4th link and quick adjustment on the clasp.
> 
> I decided to go with the blue dial version so I placed my order for the blue one with metal bracelet (IW328204) and ordered blue rubber strap for it as well.They haven’t received any blue ones with metal bracelet yet but I’ll get the first one they’ll receive.
> 
> It is really strange that the metal bracelet versions are still not on the IWC website and you can’t find any information about them online.


Nice! It's so odd like you said that they aren't on the website yet. The whole quiet rollout of the Mark XX has been odd. Almost like they aren't proud of it or something. 

What's the MSRP for the bracelet version?


----------



## Snowstrm

ctw19 said:


> Nice! It's so odd like you said that they aren't on the website yet. The whole quiet rollout of the Mark XX has been odd. Almost like they aren't proud of it or something.
> 
> What's the MSRP for the bracelet version?


Yes, it is odd. And the AD was also wondering why IWC is doing the launch that way and even the AD hasn’t received any communication from IWC about the Mark XX.

The MSRP for the bracelet version was 6950€ so 1100€ more than versions with a leather strap which seems to be a normal price addition for IWC. That said I think 7t€ starts to be expensive for the mark series.


----------



## Kakemonster

Snowstrm said:


> Went to my AD today to see the Mark XX with metal bracelet (IW328202) which they kindly had reserved for me. I have attached some photos below. Sorry about the quality, the lighting wasn’t the best for photographing.
> 
> I really like the new bracelet with that small tapering. It also has the new quick change system which you can see on the photos. Otherwise it is very similar than the bracelet that comes with the Mark XVIII with polished 2nd and 4th link and quick adjustment on the clasp.
> 
> I decided to go with the blue dial version so I placed my order for the blue one with metal bracelet (IW328204) and ordered blue rubber strap for it as well.They haven’t received any blue ones with metal bracelet yet but I’ll get the first one they’ll receive.
> 
> It is really strange that the metal bracelet versions are still not on the IWC website and you can’t find any information about them online.


It's a good looking bracelet, and the tapering is a nice improvement. I am kind of dissapointed though that it only comes with polished intermediate links, as I preferred the all brushed look that came with the black dial mark xviii.


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## thx67

Hackmartian said:


> I ended up swapping my XVIII for the XX and one thing that's been significantly downgraded is the strap. Compared to the brown calfskin that came with the Mark XVIII Le Petit Prince, the quick-exchange that comes on the blue Mark XX is stiff, uncomfortable, feels cheap, and doesn't compliment the color of the dial nearly as well. I picked up the older calfskin strap for my XX and the whole combination feels right.
> View attachment 16853971
> View attachment 16853971


I completely agree that the mk xx straps are bad. Mine is showing wear after a few days. It’s one of the worst straps I’ve ever owned. I reached out to them and they responded with some along the lines of “thanks for the feedback”. I’m not convinced their ease x change system is great either unless you’re using the bracelet. Slightly tainted my opinion of the brand to be honest. It’s not a big ask to provide a decent strap for a watch at this price.


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## Hackmartian

thx67 said:


> I completely agree that the mk xx straps are bad. Mine is showing wear after a few days. It’s one of the worst straps I’ve ever owned. I reached out to them and they responded with some along the lines of “thanks for the feedback”. I’m not convinced their ease x change system is great either unless you’re using the bracelet. Slightly tainted my opinion of the brand to be honest. It’s not a big ask to provide a decent strap for a watch at this price.


I agree it's a let-down compared to the supremely comfortable strap from the previous iteration. I wonder if the ease-x-change system requires them to use stiffer leather in order to support the metal mechanism? Still doesn't forgive the lazy color choice, but I could see the softer calfskin not being able to hold that metal clasp for long. That said, comfort isn't a compromise I'm willing to make for the ability to swap out straps quickly. Bummer is, I do plan on getting the bracelet when it's available for purchase and it would be nice not to worry about scraping up the lugs when I bounce between them.


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## Snowstrm

The metal bracelet versions of Mark XX are finally on the IWC webpage. They have also added a version with green dial as confirmed earlier. That’s also available with metal bracelet. I have added links below for each model.
The green looks nice but I think I will still go with the blue version as it is more versatile. I have ordered the blue version with metal bracelet from my AD and they told me the delivery time would be 4-5 weeks and that was a couple of weeks ago so shouldn’t be a long wait anymore. 

IWC Mark XX blue with metal bracelet
IWC Mark XX black with metal bracelet
IWC Mark XX green with metal bracelet


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## wkw

Snowstrm said:


> The metal bracelet versions of Mark XX are finally on the IWC webpage. They have also added a version with green dial as confirmed earlier. That’s also available with metal bracelet. I have added links below for each model.
> The green looks nice but I think I will still go with the blue version as it is more versatile. I have ordered the blue version with metal bracelet from my AD and they told me the delivery time would be 4-5 weeks and that was a couple of weeks ago so shouldn’t be a long wait anymore.
> 
> IWC Mark XX blue with metal bracelet
> IWC Mark XX black with metal bracelet
> IWC Mark XX green with metal bracelet


Thank you for the update.

I would go for the black dial version, if there is no polished accent in the bezel and the bracelet center links.

Now I’m more interested to the blue dial version, and need to check out the new while dial as well. 


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## Kakemonster

Snowstrm said:


> The metal bracelet versions of Mark XX are finally on the IWC webpage. They have also added a version with green dial as confirmed earlier. That’s also available with metal bracelet. I have added links below for each model.
> The green looks nice but I think I will still go with the blue version as it is more versatile. I have ordered the blue version with metal bracelet from my AD and they told me the delivery time would be 4-5 weeks and that was a couple of weeks ago so shouldn’t be a long wait anymore.
> 
> IWC Mark XX blue with metal bracelet
> IWC Mark XX black with metal bracelet
> IWC Mark XX green with metal bracelet


Great news! I was set on the black dial, but the green looks gorgeous. Hope it is not a boutique exclusive color or something. Think I need to see both in person to make up my mind.


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## Flaafl

Snowstrm said:


> The metal bracelet versions of Mark XX are finally on the IWC webpage. They have also added a version with green dial as confirmed earlier. That’s also available with metal bracelet. I have added links below for each model.
> The green looks nice but I think I will still go with the blue version as it is more versatile. I have ordered the blue version with metal bracelet from my AD and they told me the delivery time would be 4-5 weeks and that was a couple of weeks ago so shouldn’t be a long wait anymore.
> 
> IWC Mark XX blue with metal bracelet
> IWC Mark XX black with metal bracelet
> IWC Mark XX green with metal bracelet


"PCLs? On *my *tool watches? It's more likely than you think."


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## businesscasual

I recently purchased the black dial mark xx. Tried on the blue and the black and while they're both nice, I liked the versality of the black better. It also looks dark blue half the time anyway due to reflections.


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## natrmrz

Yea curious what they do with 36mm size


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## CasualAbuser

natrmrz said:


> Yea curious what they do with 36mm size
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A not date 36mm would be a cool way to distinguish it from the 40mm


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## Flaafl

CasualAbuser said:


> A not date 36mm would be a cool way to distinguish it from the 40mm


Careful, do you really want them to create the perfect watch, when they *just* came out with this one? Think of all the lost sales from people currently on the fence for the Mark 20. 😄


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## CasualAbuser

Flaafl said:


> Careful, do you really want them to create the perfect watch, when they *just* came out with this one? Think of all the lost sales from people currently on the fence for the Mark 20. 😄


Yes...yes I do..very much so. Also switching out the flieger hands for the old ones would be chefs kiss perfect as well but that is horse I've beat to death in my short time on this forum


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## martin_blank

the green dial is nice and the XX case looks great on bracelet but i dont think i would ever wear a sunburt dial, pilot watch. As well executed as they are its just too shiny for my tastes. I want to like these watches based on the pictures at certain angles but in the flesh there is just too much light play.


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## govdubspeedgo

green has me wanting to get one 


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## Kakemonster

martin_blank said:


> the green dial is nice and the XX case looks great on bracelet but i dont think i would ever wear a sunburt dial, pilot watch. As well executed as they are its just too shiny for my tastes. I want to like these watches based on the pictures at certain angles but in the flesh there is just too much light play.


Although I haven't seen the green in person, I've had a similar experience with other sunburst dial colors. In still photos they look great, but in real life the color is often a bit too dynamic for my taste. I often found that I generally love the these types of dials in overcast weather, but not in direct sunlight.


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## natrmrz

Anyone know what the bracelet tapers down to? Looks like a 20mm to 18mm taper


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## GregoryD

I tried on the Mark XX blue and black dial the other day, and they're both lovely. But, I will reiterate what others have said about the new leather straps - they are awful. They feel stiff and cheap, and each example I saw had significant wear from rubbing against the case (this seems to be a known issue).

The SA said he was confident there would be titanium heritage version of the Mark XX, so I'm going to be looking out for that.


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## Uhren Novice

Dear All,
I own the mark XX in blue with the bracelet, I love it but recently i notice that the minute hand jumps backwards whenever i pull the crown to the time setting position
Anyone experience this before? I have looked around and found a youtube video of another owner experiencing the same:






Is this something to be concerned with? or just a quirk of the 32111 movement ?

Appreciate your views on this


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## govdubspeedgo

seeing how the new oris movement with the higher power reserve also has this issue might be something to do with newer movements with higher power reserve, google oris cal 400 jump issues 


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## GregoryD

Although annoying, I'm not sure the hand jumping is really a defect. I don't think it would bother me as long as timekeeping is unaffected.


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## Kakemonster

I bought the mark xx (black dial) yesterday on the bracelet. They also had a version with the strap and the bg43 in black, thus I got to compare all three models.

As already mentioned by several other members, the new strap on the mark xx is of poor quality. It seems thin, stiff (not in a good way) and quite fragile (the strap already had several marks). The bracelet version is therefore the way to go. I am curious though if the easy-link straps on the chrono41 are of the same poor quality? In theory these straps should fit the mark xx, as the lug width is the same. Maybe they are of better quality?

The bracelet has now a subtle taper which does make a difference in terms of both looks and comfort. The intermediate links are polished, which I was quite critical of prior to seeing it in person. However, in person it does kind of suit watch, as the bezel is polished, but I would still have preferred an all-brushed look. 

The main attraction point for me with the mark xx is that they addressed most the issues I had with the xviii. The lugs are now shorter and angle more downwards towards the wrist, making for a superior fit (at least for my wrist). The markers and numbers on the dial have been moved closer towards the centre of the dial, reducing negative space, thus making the dial seem smaller. The date wheel background is now white, and not black as on the xviii. With this new dial layout and date wheel location I do believe this was the correct choice by IWC, as it does provide symmetry.

Some forum members have experienced issues with the new movement on the mark xx, i.e. that the hour had jumps during time setting. I tried setting the watch before I bought it, and experienced no such issues. The overall feel (winding, time setting etc.) felt very smooth and pretty much identical to the Spitfire automatic.

I also got to try the bg43 and compare it with the mark xx. In terms of case and dial finishing I can't really see much difference between the two. The crown is obviously much more distinctive, and the strap came with a deployant clasp. The strap seemed of high quality. The movement is also visible and likely much better finished than the mark xx's movement. However, the feel/operation of the movement during time-setting didn't feel of better quality. It actually felt less smooth than the mark xx. 

The lume on the bg43 is also obviously superior to the mark xx. I personally don't mind that not all the numerals are lumed on the mark xx, but what has dissapointed me thus far is that the lume overall seems quite weak. 

In terms of improvements to the mark xx I would have preferred baton style hands aka mark xv, and that the font used for numerals was the same as on the spitfire. Since IWC insist on using the the same hands and numerals on all their pilot watches, most of the models kind of look the same. They should strive to make their models a bit more distinctive going forward.


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## Mondo Shizmo

I am still waiting for my AD to receive the black dial on bracelet and they have not gotten any yet. The jumping minute when setting the time doesn't seem like a huge issue with time keeping but I am also not a watchmaker to understand it, I think with the long warranty it would protect you if it was. I am excited to get one and the photos people are posting validated my next purchase.


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## ParkinNJ

natrmrz said:


> Anyone know what the bracelet tapers down to? Looks like a 20mm to 18mm taper
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You’re spot-on based on my cheapo calipers: 20 mm lug-width tapering to 18mm and a 19mm clasp. On a separate note, I was surprised how short the bracelet was compared to other watches. I’d imagine you’d probably have to order extra links if your wrist is greater than 7.5 inches.


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## martin_blank

ParkinNJ said:


> You’re spot-on based on my cheapo calipers: 20 mm lug-width tapering to 18mm and a 19mm clasp. On a separate note, I was surprised how short the bracelet was compared to other watches. I’d imagine you’d probably have to order extra links if your wrist is greater than 7.5 inches.
> 
> View attachment 16980137


That’s a nice looking time piece 


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## Kakemonster

Picture of the black dial on bracelet:


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## MaximillionBuxx

GregoryD said:


> I tried on the Mark XX blue and black dial the other day, and they're both lovely. But, I will reiterate what others have said about the new leather straps - they are awful. They feel stiff and cheap, and each example I saw had significant wear from rubbing against the case (this seems to be a known issue).
> 
> The SA said he was confident there would be titanium heritage version of the Mark XX, so I'm going to be looking out for that.


I went to the boutique with the intent to buy a Mark XX, but left with the XVIII Heritage. The short lugs of the XX wore pretty small on my wrist. I'm pretty excited to see the Heritage come out in the XX for those with a smaller wrist, though.


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