# New Ingenieur Automatic 40mm - Preview SIHH 2013



## reverso68

I received the tweet this morning.
Time and Watches: SIHH 2013 Preview: IWC - New Ingenieur Automatic Ref. IW323902, IW323904, IW323906







I think it is a good choice to reduce the size.


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## tdk

Too bad its an ETA 2892 movement. Also it seems like the dial is missing the "grid" pattern of the current Ingenieurs.


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## Jim123

The size will please the people who found the mission earth Ingy a little on the large size, but the lack of the inhouse movement that the ME has and its predecessor in the 42mm had seems like a step backwards in this range for me.

Also the antimagnetic protection at 40000 is half of what the previous generation Ingys had ( I think).

Not excited about this one.


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## M.W.

In general I like the idea--a more classically styled and sized model, which I find fairly attractive. My two initial questions would be:

1) How will the 40 mm size really wear? I'm not a fan of 'big' watches but with this type of bezel and case design 40 mm could look small (obvious solution is just to check it out in person).

2) Where will the line be priced? I'd assume at around the same point as the base Aquatimer. I don't necessarily mind it having a 2892 but that of course makes the value proposition a little more complicated.

Thanks for the update. Will be interesting to see what else is in store for 2013 ...


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## timefleas

Essentially this is a stripped down version of the Ingenieur, and will be a very nice addition to the line IF the price is likewise stripped down as well.

However, as a current owner of two 3227, both of course with "in-house" movements, and both within weeks of each other requiring major servicing though both are only a few years old ($500 for one and $600 for the other), I am not sure I share the same sentiment as some suggested above about the relative value of an in-house movement, in fact, I wouldn't mind a tried and true ETA 2892 at all (especially if the price is right)...


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## Jez4

That is perfect! 40mm looks ideal. A great new addition to the IWC collection.


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## powerband

Any _GUESS_ on the price of this new model?


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## Cabaiguan

What's not to like?! A return of a classic, in smaller form, with a workhorse movement that will be easy to service. Hopefully, the price will reflect the lack of in-house movement. I love it!


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## akit110

timefleas said:


> Essentially this is a stripped down version of the Ingenieur, and will be a very nice addition to the line IF the price is likewise stripped down as well.
> 
> However, as a current owner of two 3227, both of course with "in-house" movements, and both within weeks of each other requiring major servicing though both are only a few years old ($500 for one and $600 for the other), I am not sure I share the same sentiment as some suggested above about the relative value of an in-house movement, in fact, I wouldn't mind a tried and true ETA 2892 at all (especially if the price is right)...


I would normally think it's preferable to have the in-house mvt. But after seeing the 2892 in my AT 3536 keep COSC time for nearly 14 years with no power reserve issues, I am starting to question my assumptions on what makes a good everyday workhorse movt. The reduced magneic protection is a bit of a drag, however, as that is the same level as the pilot watches. I will keep the Millie for now....


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## Hosea

At 40 mm, they could put caliber 80110 as they did on Ingenieur 3228 back in 2008. Of course it will make the watch a bit thicker. But i prefer that than 2892 in a watch of this caliber. If only they put 80110 in it, i'd be in line.

Cheers


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## hkustch

tdk said:


> Too bad its an ETA 2892 movement. Also it seems like the dial is missing the "grid" pattern of the current Ingenieurs.


Agreed. The case design is nice and classic, but the dial is monotone and lacks texture...the thick markers also look a bit too crowded on a small dial.

I would prefer the VC Ingenieur in this case (still considering)...


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## Toothbras

Here's a little more info, really looking forward to seeing this one

http://www.ablogtowatch.com/iwc-announces-updated-smaller-ingenieur-watches/


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## DrewII

a 40mm Ingenieur for 2013? this is quite interesting.

i'v noticed Panerai has released two new 42mm Radiomirs

seems watch makers are still catering for the demand in bigger watches (45mm+) but perhaps they feel a lot of the market are avoiding the larger pieces. Either they're too big on a smaller wrist, or they feel the current trend in larger watches might be taking a slight turn in the other direction.


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## akit110

The more I look at it, the more I like it. Maybe with the rose gold hands for more contrast.
Smart move as it puts an "entry-level' Ingy model into their line-up. 

I might have been tempted to pick up a 3227 pre-owned, but the size and thickness makes this a sweet option for a sport-dress watch for work or play. 

I wonder why is it only 40,000 a/m magnetic protection? Perhaps the thinner case?
Still glad not a sapphire back on this Ingy.


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## nrk

It looks great. I like the Genta roots, and the reasonable size. The movement doesn't bother me. I hope I'll like it as much after I see the price.


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## militaryfan

Yeah very interested to see what the new 40mm model's price point will be. I'm predicting around the $4,000 USD mark.


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## Dixan

militaryfan said:


> Yeah very interested to see what the new 40mm model's price point will be. I'm predicting around the $4,000 USD mark.


$4k? Sorry, man, not even close. The current AT on bracelet, which runs the same movement, comes in at $5,600, I believe. My guess is $5,900-6,100 MSRP.


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## jporos

Price is $6600 MSRP. Just keeps going up and up...


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## cuts33

jporos said:


> Price is $6600 MSRP. Just keeps going up and up...


I fail to see any value proposition here.

I'd rather save $700 and get the pilot chrono on a strap.


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## Cybotron

M.W. said:


> In general I like the idea--a more classically styled and sized model, which I find fairly attractive. My two initial questions would be:
> 
> 1) How will the 40 mm size really wear? I'm not a fan of 'big' watches but with this type of bezel and case design 40 mm could look small (obvious solution is just to check it out in person).
> 
> 2) Where will the line be priced? I'd assume at around the same point as the base Aquatimer. I don't necessarily mind it having a 2892 but that of course makes the value proposition a little more complicated.
> 
> Thanks for the update. Will be interesting to see what else is in store for 2013 ...


Yea I kinda agree. I think this would look a little small. 42mm would be better.


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## nrk

At $6,600 it's a pretty tough sell. It's 20% higher than a base Aquatimer. It's also more expensive that the new Omega Aquaterra with the 8508 15,000 gauss movement. Feels like it's punching a little above it's weight with an ETA movement, and moderate anti-magnetic properties.


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## ludawg23

beautiful piece. But for a $6,600 price tag...no way.


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## Legion681

nrk said:


> At $6,600 it's a pretty tough sell. It's 20% higher than a base Aquatimer. It's also more expensive that the new Omega Aquaterra with the 8508 15,000 gauss movement. Feels like it's punching a little above it's weight with an ETA movement, and moderate anti-magnetic properties.


How much is the AT 8508?


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## nrk

Legion681 said:


> How much is the AT 8508?


The list price that I saw was 5,900CHF, about 6,300USD. It's not a huge difference in price, but the Omega is a technically superior piece with an in house movement.


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## Watch-U-Say?

40mm.... too small regardless what movement it has in it.


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## hanz079

Price is confirmed at usd6600?
That's asking too much...
Well, there goes my excitement on this watch.


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## JoshTheCanadian

That is an absurd price for that watch. That is almost Milgauss territory. This really looks like a direct competitor to the Milgauss, and now the new Omega.


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## Le Chiffre

hanz079 said:


> Price is confirmed at usd6600?
> That's asking too much...
> Well, there goes my excitement on this watch.


Same opinion.


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## sidestreaker

I love the size and the proportion as well but for the price, hmmmmm....

I'd need to really have a slow talk with my AD on this to really bring the price down for what it is. Perhaps I can convince him that this will keep me happy in the meantime while I save up for the royal oak one day...


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## p_mcgee

Love the looks but I read it weighs over 150 grams, a little heavy for my liking so probably keeping my Mark XVI. As far as cost, its tough to find a Genta DNA piece in the $6K range....maybe a Cartier Pasha?


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## Keaman

p_mcgee said:


> Love the looks but I read it weighs over 150 grams, a little heavy for my liking so probably keeping my Mark XVI...


I'll be keeping my M16 too, but I'll also be buying a 3239 as SOON as the opportunity arises!


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## griffi

Some pics for you guys 
I think good daily watch.


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## kkchome

Love the black face version and thinking about it for my next watch. While the price is quite high, in my area it is possible to get decent discounts on IWC.


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## exoticwatches

powerband said:


> Any _GUESS_ on the price of this new model?


$6600/-

Should need some serious discounting if they want ppl to purchase this with an ETA movement inside ....


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## exoticwatches

kkchome said:


> Love the black face version and thinking about it for my next watch. While the price is quite high, in my area it is possible to get decent discounts on IWC.


What kind of discounting percentages could one look forward to ?


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## drhr

Love it, love it, love it! Had the Milgauss but never spoke to me so went sayonara. Quite enamored of this thing, though. It is a brute, especially on my small wrist . . .


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## kkchome

Not sure on this model,but usually 20+%.


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## xinxin

This would look really small. I have the AMG version which comes in at 42, & it barely looks bigger than a Rolex sub due to the smaller display glass diameter size of the Inge. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dhtjr

drhr said:


> Love it, love it, love it! Had the Milgauss but never spoke to me so went sayonara. Quite enamored of this thing, though. It is a brute, especially on my small wrist . . .


Great pics! When I eventually am able to get this watch, I will have a difficult time choosing black or white. Normally I gravitate toward silver or white dials, but the black also looks fantastic on this Ingenieur 3239. I could probably flip a coin and be happy with either with no regrets. I've tried both on and still would have a tough decision. Did you have a hard time choosing between them? Thanks.


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## drhr

dhtjr said:


> Great pics! When I eventually am able to get this watch, I will have a difficult time choosing black or white. Normally I gravitate toward silver or white dials, but the black also looks fantastic on this Ingenieur 3239. I could probably flip a coin and be happy with either with no regrets. I've tried both on and still would have a tough decision. Did you have a hard time choosing between them? Thanks.


Thx! Don't think you will regret either color dial. The black is very nice, too. My saving grace is I have this black dialed GS which pushed me toward the silver model. Lose the GS, though, might have ended up with the black. The white dialed Ingenieur with the gold accents impressed me the least, I think because it started toward the blingy side of the spectrum though others might love it.

As an aside, I keep reading less than flattering remarks about the pricey cost of these 40 mm considering their ETA (modified, I guess) movements but, you know, that was never an issue. In house or not, if I like the look of a piece, odds are it will be in the box at some time. There was no question on this one. Good luck to you, hope you can do it soon!!


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## lee233

Just didn't understand what's with the Milgauss either. The Ingenieur, on the other hand, speaks to me so much more than any other. It sure is a heavy brute, but still so wearable as an everyday watch. ETA or not, it's worth every cent of it.


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## drhr

lee233 said:


> Just didn't understand what's with the Milgauss either. The Ingenieur, on the other hand, speaks to me so much more than any other. It sure is a heavy brute, but still so wearable as an everyday watch. ETA or not, it's worth every cent of it.


Thx for the confirmation :-d , guess that makes at least 3 of us that can overlook the movement issue, or lack thereof . . . .


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## exoticwatches

lee233 said:


> Just didn't understand what's with the Milgauss either. The Ingenieur, on the other hand, speaks to me so much more than any other. It sure is a heavy brute, but still so wearable as an everyday watch. ETA or not, it's worth every cent of it.


Is it ?


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## drhr

exoticwatches said:


> Is it ?


yes


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## akit110

lee233 said:


> Just didn't understand what's with the Milgauss either. The Ingenieur, on the other hand, speaks to me so much more than any other. It sure is a heavy brute, but still so wearable as an everyday watch. ETA or not, it's worth every cent of it.


What's with the Millie thing you ask? The Millie case is likely the best modern interpretation of the classic mid-century Rolex oyster shape in the current line-up. All swoops and curves like a young Sophia Loren. Ignoring the arguable excesses of the green sapphire and orange indices on the flagship Millie for a moment, and you're really looking at a pretty pure distillation of the Rolex design. Yup, just like the 70s Genta inspired Ingy on this thread - it's Back to the Future.


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## GaryF

I'd agree that $6600.00 is a silly price for this watch given what you find from others at this price point but, having handled and liked the watch on a recent trip to the US, I decided to see if it is any more reasonable here in Europe. ACE lists it at €5,950! This currently works out at....

$7,896!!!!!!!!

That's right! Nearly $8k

Now, I'm no in-house snob. In fact, while IWC's in-house stuff might be very beautiful, I've read enough stories of poor timekeeping and reliability (combined with poorer after-sales support) that I'd probably be happier going with something bomb-proof from ETA, anyway.

But that price!! I'm sorry but that is laughable.


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## drhr

GaryF said:


> I'd agree that $6600.00 is a silly price for this watch given what you find from others at this price point but, having handled and liked the watch on a recent trip to the US, I decided to see if it is any more reasonable here in Europe. ACE lists it at €5,950! This currently works out at....
> 
> $7,896!!!!!!!!
> 
> That's right! Nearly $8k
> 
> Now, I'm no in-house snob. In fact, while IWC's in-house stuff might be very beautiful, I've read enough stories of poor timekeeping and reliability (combined with poorer after-sales support) that I'd probably be happier going with something bomb-proof from ETA, anyway.
> 
> But that price!! I'm sorry but that is laughable.


Understand the opinion and know it's nothing personal, but I'd've paid even more cause I like it so much. No worries, though, I don't mind the mirth since it won't be the last time I disagree with general consensus regards my taste/money ;-) . . . .


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## GaryF

At the end of the day, it's a great watch. If I hadn't wanted one, I wouldn't even have investigated, let alone been so disappointed.
Objectively, it's hard to make a case for _any_ luxury watch being good value. The only way it can make sense is relative to others of the breed and this, I'm afraid, is where I feel that IWC are having a laugh.

If you can get past it and enjoy what is indisputably, a beautiful, well-made timepiece, then that's great. I'm actually a little jealous. I'd love to be able to buy and enjoy one but I fear that every time I looked at it I'd hear the sound of IWC's execs sniggering into their Toblerone and that would just ruin the experience for me.



drhr said:


> Understand the opinion and know it's nothing personal, but I'd've paid even more cause I like it so much. No worries, though, I don't mind the mirth since it won't be the last time I disagree with general consensus regards my taste/money ;-) . . . .


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## Dixan

GaryF said:


> I'd agree that $6600.00 is a silly price for this watch given what you find from others at this price point but, having handled and liked the watch on a recent trip to the US, I decided to see if it is any more reasonable here in Europe. ACE lists it at €5,950! This currently works out at....
> 
> $7,896!!!!!!!!
> 
> That's right! Nearly $8k
> 
> Now, I'm no in-house snob. In fact, while IWC's in-house stuff might be very beautiful, I've read enough stories of poor timekeeping and reliability (combined with poorer after-sales support) that I'd probably be happier going with something bomb-proof from ETA, anyway.
> 
> But that price!! I'm sorry but that is laughable.


Gary, US pries don't reflect sales tax. That $6,600 price is actually $7,227, including sales tax, in Santa Monica, CA, for example. All of the prices discussed here are pre-discount, of course.


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## dhtjr

drhr said:


> Understand the opinion and know it's nothing personal, but I'd've paid even more cause I like it so much. No worries, though, I don't mind the mirth since it won't be the last time I disagree with general consensus regards my taste/money ;-) . . . .


Great pic of a gorgeous watch. Though it's just academic until I have the funds, I cannot decide which I like better, the white or black dial 3239. I was set on the black, but now I'm not so sure. I think now I'm leaning toward the white dial like yours. Despite the price, I think IWC hit a homerun with this one.


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## drhr

GaryF said:


> At the end of the day, it's a great watch. If I hadn't wanted one, I wouldn't even have investigated, let alone been so disappointed.
> Objectively, it's hard to make a case for _any_ luxury watch being good value. The only way it can make sense is relative to others of the breed and this, I'm afraid, is where I feel that IWC are having a laugh.
> 
> If you can get past it and enjoy what is indisputably, a beautiful, well-made timepiece, then that's great. I'm actually a little jealous. I'd love to be able to buy and enjoy one but I fear that every time I looked at it I'd hear the sound of IWC's execs sniggering into their Toblerone and that would just ruin the experience for me.


Ah, gotcha. The "experience" is actually all we really have at the end of the day, so more so understand and accept your point. Thankfully, as I age I'm getting better at getting past others' perceptions/influences of/on my actions. Mahalo for the clarification/input!


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## drhr

dhtjr said:


> Great pic of a gorgeous watch. Though it's just academic until I have the funds, I cannot decide which I like better, the white or black dial 3239. I was set on the black, but now I'm not so sure. I think now I'm leaning toward the white dial like yours. Despite the price, I think IWC hit a homerun with this one.


Hey thx, appreciate the comment! I may have mentioned earlier or on another thread that I had the same quandary pre purchase, but getting to strap both colors on helped me a lot with the choice. Both are beautiful, though. Hope you can acquire one soon!


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## GaryF

Right. I should have factored that in.



Dixan said:


> Gary, US pries don't reflect sales tax. That $6,600 price is actually $7,227, including sales tax, in Santa Monica, CA, for example. All of the prices discussed here are pre-discount, of course.


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## Hatman14

I don't get all this hate for an iwc for and having an eta movement, if they were soley in house most couldn't afford it... All you have to do is look at the price of an in house iwc to see how much it will set you back... It would certainly price me out of one and I love my mark xvii! its a great way to Own the brand without paying 10k plus! It's a tried and tested workhorse movement that any competent watchmaker can repair or service! The quality of the fit and finish are incredible and the history, that's what you're paying for, the movement isn't the only reason a watch costs 5k plus!


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## GaryF

Hatman14 said:


> I don't get all this hate for an iwc for and having an eta movement, if they were soley in house most couldn't afford it... All you have to do is look at the price of an in house iwc to see how much it will set you back... It would certainly price me out of one and I love my mark xvii! its a great way to Own the brand without paying 10k plus! It's a tried and tested workhorse movement that any competent watchmaker can repair or service! The quality of the fit and finish are incredible and the history, that's what you're paying for, the movement isn't the only reason a watch costs 5k plus!


I don't really see all the hate you are talking about. Most of us love the idea of a tried and true ETA movement going into a watch to make it affordable but, in this case, the package stacks up pretty poorly against what other manufacturers are offering at that price point. The movement and the watch itself are not the issue.
If what you want is to "own the brand" then, yes, it's cheaper than the price IWC asks for its in-house stuff but, personally, I couldn't care less about the idea of owning an IWC for the sake of owning an IWC.


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## Hatman14

GaryF said:


> I don't really see all the hate you are talking about. Certainly there is none in my posts. Most of us love the idea of a tried and true ETA movement going into a watch to make it affordable but, in this case, the package stacks up pretty poorly against what other manufacturers are offering at that price point. The movement and the watch itself are not the issue.
> If what you want is to "own the brand" then, yes, it's cheaper than the price IWC asks for its in-house stuff but, personally, I couldn't care less about the idea of owning an IWC for the sake of owning an IWC.


Hate was the wrong word to use in all fairness, but people dismiss watches because they use an ETA movement and say they arent worth it because they arent in house, but if they were in house it would price most people out of them..to be honest as long as the movement is good.. Tried and tested then I'm happy! And it's not about owning an IWC for the sake of owning one, but it's about owning a watch you love, from a brand you love without having to pay extra for an In house movement, it's not just on this post it's a lot on the forum, I personally prefer an ETA movement as it's easily serviceable and repaired, but that's just me


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## GaryF

I would also be perfectly happy with this movement. I don't see an ETA as a price to pay for getting a cheaper watch from a brand I love, though. It is part of the watch, not something added to (or taken) from it. It is a package.
The watch itself is very nice. It's good looking, well built and with a solid movement. When you look at that package and then compare it to how much similar packages cost from elsewhere, though, it's very hard to see where the price comes from unless it is simply that IWC's branding requires that even its entry-level watches should be very expensive. 
Tudor, for instance, offers something similar for about half the price. Omega offer a technically far more impressive movement in a watch costing less and, let's face it, when _Omega's_ new wave of pricing makes you look like you are gouging, then you deserve to have some questions asked of your pricing policy.



Hatman14 said:


> Hate was the wrong word to use in all fairness, but people dismiss watches because they use an ETA movement and say they arent worth it because they arent in house, but if they were in house it would price most people out of them..to be honest as long as the movement is good.. Tried and tested then I'm happy! And it's not about owning an IWC for the sake of owning one, but it's about owning a watch you love, from a brand you love without having to pay extra for an In house movement, it's not just on this post it's a lot on the forum, I personally prefer an ETA movement as it's easily serviceable and repaired, but that's just me


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## Hatman14

GaryF said:


> I would also be perfectly happy with this movement. I don't see an ETA as a price to pay for getting a cheaper watch from a brand I love, though. It is part of the watch, not something added to (or taken) from it. It is a package.
> The watch itself is very nice. It's good looking, well built and with a solid movement. When you look at that package and then compare it to how much similar packages cost from elsewhere, though, it's very hard to see where the price comes from unless it is simply that IWC's branding requires that even its entry-level watches should be very expensive.
> Tudor, for instance, offers something similar for about half the price. Omega offer a technically far more impressive movement in a watch costing less and, let's face it, when _Omega's_ new wave of pricing makes you look like you are gouging, then you deserve to have some questions asked of your pricing policy.


I get what you're saying and agree, but IWC has always been priced higher than Tudor and omega for it's entry level watches, I agree that omegas technology for less is more impressive, i have the ceramic seamaster and it's unbelievable, I love it, In ways I prefer it to my iwc, but the iwc is a bit special for me, I'd wanted a pilots watch for years and couldn't justify the price for a big pilot etc but had always loved the mark xvii too, and at 1/3 of the price was perfect for me, that was only possible because it had an eta movement,


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## GaryF

Hatman14 said:


> I'd wanted a pilots watch for years and couldn't justify the price for a big pilot etc but had always loved the mark xvii too, and at 1/3 of the price was perfect for me, that was only possible because it had an eta movement,


But, on leather at least, your Pilot XVII is about £1300 cheaper. _That_ is a better price for an entry level IWC.


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## Grahamsjz

I am another that does not care if the movement is in house or ETA. I am lacking soul and I buy based on how watches look and feel on my wrist. I have JLC with in house and that does not increase my enjoyment of wearing JLC at all. 


I do think IWC are pushing their prices compared to other brands but I keep my watches, so a couple of thousand difference today over the lifetime of the watch (50 years plus?) actually does not really matter in the long run IF I like the watch so much I think I will wear it that long and IWC do build some watches that really resonate with me. Having said that, forking over any extra money always annoys and irritates greatly at the time. I don't imagine the execs sniggering at me, just being pleased that they created a watch which wears so well, I will part with thousands to wear it.


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## Hatman14

GaryF said:


> But, on leather at least, your Pilot XVII is about £1300 cheaper. _That_ is a better price for an entry level IWC.


Yeah I know, the bracelet doesn't look as good either, now £450 for the deployant is ridiculous!


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## pinchoff

Buying a gold bigpilot is paying more for a less durable resistant, even delicate for a pilot.

My Ingenieur is Lovely, comfortable, precise, and iconic. Priceless, as it was a gift. Money is a lower, much lower level argument. And the ETA is super fine to me.

Just a sight


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## GaryF

pinchoff said:


> Buying a gold bigpilot is paying more for a less durable resistant, even delicate for a pilot.
> 
> My Ingenieur is Lovely, comfortable, precise, and iconic. Priceless, as it was a gift. Money is a lower, much lower level argument. And the ETA is super fine to me.
> 
> Just a sight


The price is always perfect when the watch is a gift. ;-)


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## pinchoff

GaryF said:


> The price is always perfect when the watch is a gift. ;-)


Very good point


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## TK-421

i love this watch and the size. i handled it in person. i just can't justify above 5K for this watch. iwc has just upped their prices too much on these non-in house watches.



GaryF said:


> I'd agree that $6600.00 is a silly price for this watch given what you find from others at this price point but, having handled and liked the watch on a recent trip to the US, I decided to see if it is any more reasonable here in Europe. ACE lists it at €5,950! This currently works out at....
> 
> $7,896!!!!!!!!
> 
> That's right! Nearly $8k
> 
> Now, I'm no in-house snob. In fact, while IWC's in-house stuff might be very beautiful, I've read enough stories of poor timekeeping and reliability (combined with poorer after-sales support) that I'd probably be happier going with something bomb-proof from ETA, anyway.
> 
> But that price!! I'm sorry but that is laughable.


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