# Raketa 24 hour watches



## sega01 (Jun 6, 2011)

Hey everyone,

About two weeks ago I stumbled upon a (supposedly) quite vintage 24 hour Raketa on Ebay. The watch was undeniably beautiful, and I'd never seen a mechanical 24 hour watch before.

I did a small bit of research regarding the watches, but could not tell how obvious of a "fake" that one was (which, seems to be pretty relative with Raketas). I placed a high bid on it, but was fortunately out-bid on it. Since then, I did more research on the watches, as well as on radium in the lume. The whole concept of old, radioactive 24 hour wind-up Russian watches was just far too cool to pass up.

My next bid was for this watch. It doesn't show German war planes and exhibits rust on the movement, indicating it might actually be a used watch. The seller also doesn't claim it's 70 years old and yet still manages to be in perfect condition. How I managed to entertain my ignorance around that fact with the last watch is beyond me. This one seems like a likely fake, but I'm curious as to what you guys think about it. I won the auction and also purchased a watch band for it.

More research yet, and I think I'm actually starting to get a hang on things with these Raketa watches. To my understanding, which is from quite a bit of reading on this forum and others, vintage Russian watches were for citizens, and should not have German war planes or tanks on them. More uncertain on this one, but I believe that "Made in USSR" was adopted later, some time after fakes started showing up with it. The fakes seem to come with many genuine Raketa parts, but no one really knows where they come from. And finally, there are even some who say that Raketas never came with lume, so these fancy gold-looking needles I see on many fakes may not be legitimate.

Very, very confusing. Nonetheless, my fascination does not waiver. Upon realizing the watch I purchased must be a "fake", I was curious enough to purchase a legitimate watch to compare it with. I'm quite certain that both this yellowish watch (the one I purchased) and this one are legitimate. The darker being the third iteration of its kind, as per this post.

What do you think of the yellowish one? It looks just like a second iteration, but I was not aware if the yellow ones are more rare or something along those lines. Also interesting that all three of them have made in the USSR on them, so perhaps that doesn't indicate a fake as much as I thought.

Anyways, I'm hoping you guys can give me your feedback on my statements and the things I've learned. I'm very curious about the legitimacy of these watches, and any backstory on why there are so many fake watches with genuine parts. It's amazing how intricate the story behind these watches seems to get. None of the watches have come in yet. Is there anything I should know before tinkering with and wearing one of these watches? I've never worn a true mechanical watch before.

Thanks for your time,
Teran


----------



## miamisurfer (Apr 17, 2011)

from what i understand raketa only uses thin hands and i don't think they've ever used lume. i'm 90% sure that the "ARctic" one is fake, I would guess the others are too, but I don't really know much about them


----------



## phd (Oct 2, 2008)

I collect Raketas (and nothing else). But I very rarely by 24hr watches for the sole reason that such a high proportion are fakes and I am not enough of an expert to tell them from the real ones. It would be really good if someone more knowledgeable (perhaps Raketa themselves, who appear here on the forum) could post a short article on this topic, with a reliable guide on how to tell genuine from fake items. Particularly curious is the abundance of German-war-themed 24hr Raketas. Someone here made the point that they don't claim to be Raketas (there's no brand name), and their abundance suggests that perhaps Raketa supplied movements (and probably cases) legitimately to a producer of these items. Seems strange, though, given the history of Petrodvoretz.

(Incidentally, I agree that your 24hr Raketa "polar" watches are authentic - they look too beat-up to be fakes/frankens. Do they have the correct 2623 movements?)


----------



## sega01 (Jun 6, 2011)

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the replies. So the fake/franken Raketa came in yesterday. Here are some pictures. I've not yet managed to pop off the back (the only scratches are from my feeble attempts at doing so). If you have any suggestions on how to properly do that, I'd appreciate the advice.

The watch feels genuine, though I have little to reference to. Nothing about it seems inherently cheap, though I've not yet given the winding mechanism enough time to prove itself just yet. It was still giving the occasional tick after the long trip from the Ukraine, having not been wound in weeks.

The lume on the hands is terrible. It'll glow for a few minutes after immediately being in direct sunlight, and nothing else. No point having it. The tick seems to go at 2Hz, but I know little of the mechanisms. There's no way to hack/stop the seconds hand while adjusting. The backing of the watch reads "stainless steel", in Russian. The band is a Di Modell I purchased separately.

phd:

Before the extra photos were taken down, there was a shot of the movement which had 2623 written on it. As soon as I get the watch I'll take some pictures of it and compare the both of them. I'm guessing that the German war themed Raketas may just have replaced numbers (what's the correct term?) under the crystal. Many of the bodies look identical to the other fakes I've seen.

Thanks,
Teran


----------



## DanC (Dec 25, 2010)

Teran, it looks like there is a small indentation in the case back. You may be able to use a very small flat-blade screwdriver to _very carefully_ remove the back. Of course, proper watch tools would be better but, if you don't have them, a screwdriver may be the next best choice.

I bought a Raketa 24-hour watch from another WUS member & the lume on it is useless too.


----------



## Alexander-watches (Jun 8, 2011)

If you are interested,I will post in this thread "Raketas" in 24 hour from my collection. Photos below


----------



## Vaurien (Jun 9, 2008)

Beatiful collection of 24h Raketa watches! 
There are some spectacular ones :-!

I am amazed in seeing that, in the third watch, time zones are wrong as in (supposed) franken raketas. There are only 2 time zones between Moscow and London :-d


----------



## Mister Mike (Nov 11, 2009)

Great watches! I particularly like the one in the 11th photo -- the graphics look especially "Soviet."


----------



## phd (Oct 2, 2008)

Vaurien said:


> Beatiful collection of 24h Raketa watches!
> There are some spectacular ones :-!
> 
> I am amazed in seeing that, in the third watch, time zones are wrong as in (supposed) franken raketas. There are only 2 time zones between Moscow and London :-d


Perhaps Russia was planning a little "reorganisation"?

Alexander - they are beautiful! If I ever recover my hard-drive (or recatalogue my watches...) I will post photos of mine; I have a few different ones, but equally I do not have most of yours...

Alexander - were you an employee at Raketa? I note that you live in St. Petersburg, and some of the items in your collection are "experimental" pieces...


----------



## Alexander-watches (Jun 8, 2011)

Yes, I worked on Petrodvortsovy Watch Factory 8 years (from 1975 to 1983). I have a lot of "experimental" watches


----------



## phd (Oct 2, 2008)

Congratulations on a beautiful collection, Alexander.

One question: do you have any catalogues for Raketa (or other Petrodvortsovy) watches? I have a large collection (about 1100 pieces), which I am trying to catalogue.
Paul


----------



## Alexander-watches (Jun 8, 2011)

Hello,Paul.
Yes, I have 3 catalogues for Raketa watches. In electronic form you can see them here https://picasaweb.google.com/newguest2008/1998# https://picasaweb.google.com/newguest2008/1989# https://picasaweb.google.com/newguest2008/1975Vremeks# https://picasaweb.google.com/newguest2008/1975# https://picasaweb.google.com/newguest2008/1972Mashpriborintorg# https://picasaweb.google.com/newguest2008/1977# https://picasaweb.google.com/newguest2008/1972#


----------



## phd (Oct 2, 2008)

Hi Alexander,

Aha! I had seen those catalogues before, but I did not realize it was you who posted them. I used to have about 10 catalogues (in electronic form), but then my hard drive failed, and I lost everything. So, I will download these to start my new collection. Thank you!

Are you confident of the dates of these catalogues? (Your 1975 catalogue has a "?" by the date; I think it is 1977. I had the same catalogue, emailed to me by Luiza from Raketa, and she said it was 1977.)

Soon (I hope!) I will recatalogue my collection, and I will try to make it available over the Web. I have some Raketas which are not in your collection, but you have many, many interesting pieces - lucky man!

Paul


----------



## Alexander-watches (Jun 8, 2011)

Hi,Paul.
It's not my catalogues.


----------



## Alexander-watches (Jun 8, 2011)

I have only 3 catalogues and they are not in electronic form


----------



## 10 ATM (Jun 1, 2011)

***please delete***


----------



## phd (Oct 2, 2008)

Hi Alexander - that is interesting! Is there any possibility you could scan them?
Paul


----------



## DanC (Dec 25, 2010)

I found a couple of (what appear to be) radio operator watches on ebay. The first one has a dial that I've seen in scanned catalogs, but the second one is new to me:

1. Rare Old Original Russian (USSR) Watch RAKETA 24 Hour. | eBay

2. Rare Old Original Russian (USSR) Watch RAKETA 24 Hour. | eBay


----------



## phd (Oct 2, 2008)

I haven't seen that precise combination of dial and case, but I have these (sorry for the poor photo).


----------



## DanC (Dec 25, 2010)

Thanks phd, those looks almost exactly like the ones being auctioned. One thing I am curious about - what do the red & blue sections on the bezel represent?

edit: I think I found the answer. "The three sectors on the rotating bezel indicates the time when the crew of the ship (or submarine) must be "on watch" to guard the ship. The markers at 6 and 18, instead, indicates the time of the high and low tide."

source - http://russianwatches.altervista.org/raketa_collection.htm


----------



## baye (Jun 22, 2011)

Hi. I'm would like to know whatever this is a fake Raketa or not. I have not seen a light blue antarctic watch like this before so is I just me or does it really exists? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....20370&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_4572wt_1338


----------



## sega01 (Jun 6, 2011)

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the beautiful watch pictures and your thoughts. Alexander's watches are amazing. I especially like the case design in the first and sixth watches that he posted.

As promised, I have pictures of both the suspected fake and real Raketa. Here's a directory listing of high resolutions of the fake/franken Raketa, and the real antarctic Raketa. The pictures speak for themselves. Both are amazing watches, but to me the original has much more charm to it. It reads easily and looks far better to the naked eye. It's fairly easy to hack, and my accuracy seems to be within one minute per day, on the slow side. Not bad for 31 years, and who knows how's long ago it was last serviced. The ticking sound between both is also a bit different, even though they supposedly have identical movements. Power reserve seems to be at least 36 hours on the original, while the franken watch seems to get stuck between 0 and 6 on the seconds hand at times, even in under 24 hours.



baye said:


> Hi. I'm would like to know whatever this is a fake Raketa or not. I have not seen a light blue antarctic watch like this before so is I just me or does it really exists? Raketa POLAR'S 24 Hours Vintage Soviet ARCTIC Watch on eBay (end time 28-Jun-11 23:17:24 BST)


Hi Baye,

I suspect that it's a fake. It's in perfect condition, and the distance around the 23 is not offset as is supposedly a "flaw" added to make genuine Raketas to make fakes more detectable. Also, the 2609 movement is a 12 hour movement. I've seen it on only a couple 24 hour watches with the 2609 that I thought were likely to be genuine. It's quite possible that there are 12-24 hour conversion kits in use on the 24 hour 2609s.

To its credit, at least it doesn't have the blatant "stainless steel" backing. Also interesting to see the seconds/minutes ring on the inside, rather than the hours. The needles are just like those on my real Antarctic watch, however the seconds hand is slightly different and actually looks kind of fake. Also, he says it was made between 1940-1969, and I don't think that 24 hour Raketas were even made back before the 70s. The likely fake (linked to above) I bought was also from wwwhypmark. I would not be surprised if it is based on a original Raketa design, however.

Sincerely,
Teran


----------



## 10 ATM (Jun 1, 2011)

Here's what I got in the post today:

34 mm case in what I presume is polished brass, not plated. Acrylic crystal. Plain, stainless steel back cover with the number 613 engraved.

Would I be correct in assuming that while this watch probably consists of genuine Raketa parts (from different watches of their range) that it was never made in the factory but instead assembled on someone's kitchen table?

Either way, I'm very happy with it and like it quite a lot.

(haven't popped the back yet to look at the movement and probably won't be doing so for a while either)


----------



## DanC (Dec 25, 2010)

10 ATM said:


> Here's what I got in the post today:
> 
> 34 mm case in what I presume is polished brass, not plated. Acrylic crystal. Plain, stainless steel back cover with the number 613 engraved.
> 
> ...


That looks really nice.

This is what I am waiting on - and now it's here!


----------



## selectA (May 26, 2014)

Hi everyone, I am looking to buy a Raketa 24h Polar and I would like some advice/help with the real and fake issue. Both watched are sold as ''Old New stock'' and ''not a modern copy made in Russia in present time''.
























thank you for your kind help !


----------

