# El Primero Bolognese (EPB) - The enigmatic Italian gold 06 Zenith El Primeros from the mid 1980s to early 1990s



## watchhunterandcollector

_My 06.0270.400, 06.0210.400, 06.0250.400, and 06.0062.400_

*INTRODUCTION*
As a Zenith and El Primero addict I have over the years been scouting offline and online sources for interesting finds. Some of the more intriguing ones are what I call the Italian El Primeros or the 06s. Some of you might have come across these on auction sites and in forums. The foremost authority on Zenith and especially El Primeros, Manfred Rössler only makes a brief mention about these on page 273 in the English version of _Zenith - Swiss Manufacture since 1965 _saying "In 1989 some El Primero movements were sent to Italy together with watch faces.... cases are all made of 18K gold.... The watch faces are enamelled." There is also an image of the face of one of these with a white enamelled face with golden subdials. There is no mention of a reference or production numbers.

Very little additional information can be found in Rössler's _El Primero - Der Chronograph_ that claims to list most if not all known El Primero models from 1969 to 2001 including Movado and a number of other makers that used the movement in some of their models (like Rolex, Concord, Ebel, Dubois, Panerai to mention a few). However, on page 41 there is a listing of a supposedly gold plated model with the reference 20.02xx.400.

Ever since I found my first 06 El Primero (06.0210.400, see detailed description below) have tried to find more of these and have now gathered a list of below references, with descriptions of features including movement versions and case maker if known. I have borrowed images from previous online sales in addition to my own images of my watches

I will continue to update this original post, but since I can only post 50 images in total, some images of my own watches will be deleted when space is needed for new references and/or variants. I will try to post additional images in reply posts instead.

*EXAMPLES
Reference 06.0050.400*
One of the models I have seen the most examples of. Most have white enamel dial, gold engraved tachymeter scale, and a screwed back labeled ZENITH, 06-0050-400, WATER RESISTANT, and 18K 750. There are also a few with a stunning black bakeliteSome also have a magnificent Zenith labled 18K bracelet (I have not been able to check the goldsmith's makers marks on one of these; I guess I have to buy one to be able to do that). I have also seen two example s with black dials. I have been able to look at the inside of a couple of these and they also have the maker's mark 50 BO indicating that the case was made by *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.

_An example of white dial 06.0050.400_









_And another 06.0050.400 with Zenith labeled original bracelet_









_A 06.0050.400 with a rare black dial_









_A typical screwed back case of a 06.0050.400_









_06.0050.400 with Bakelite bezel_06.0050.400 with Bakelite bezel









*Reference 06.0050.400B*
I thought I had seen all references when I stumbled upon this one. Looks exactly like 06.0050.400 from the dial side, but has a snap back instead of a screwed one. I have not been able to establish a maker of this case, but *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *seems like a safe bet.

_Front and back of an 06.0050.400B














_

*Reference 06.0050.400/1*
Just when I though I had seen them all this one shows up (was online for a day and was then sold). Just like many of the other 06.0050.400 variants it has a white enamel dial, gold engraved tachymeter scale, and a screwed back labeled ZENITH, 06-0050-400/1, WATER RESISTANT, and 18K 750. The interesting thing is the case shape that might be one of the most striking of them all; more material between the lugs making a solid appearance (most likely really heavy). I have been able to look at the inside and is almost certain that it also carries the maker's mark 50 BO indicating that also this case was made by *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.

_Front, side and back of an 06.0050.400/1





















_

*Reference 06.0051.400*
I had until recently only seen two of these looking exactly the same. Very similar to 06.0050.400 above, but instead if a white or black dial this one has a dial that seems to be in solid gold. One important difference is that it does not say El Primero on the dial. My take on this is that this means early production (maybe 1989) since the 1988-1989 Defy and Clipper did not have this text, while somewhat later models did. One of the examples I found also has the maker's mark 50 BO indicating that it also was made by *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO.*

So when I thought I figured this reference out a fellow collector on Instagram (Hat tip to @livingstonatnight) shares pictures of his example that actually looks a lot more like a 06.0050.400 with a white dial and is El Primero labeled. He also provided pictures of the 400 movement and the inside of the lid with the prototypical label CTRD BY ZENITH (see below). So much for my theory about early production of this reference. Might still hold true for some of them, but the use of the same references for quite different configurations is confusing. The hallmark on the second one shows that this case was also made by the goldsmith *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.

_Here is an 06.0051.400_









_An 06.0051.400 belonging to @livingstonatnight














_










*Reference 06.0053.400*
I have only seen one of this reference that has a screw back case that is identical to 06.0050.400 and 06.0051.400 above. Major differences are applied gold arabic indices (even though a few 06.0050.400 also have these indices) and gold subdials on a white porcelain dial. Have not been able to peek inside, but it highly likely made by *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO* and housing a 400 movement.









*Reference 06.0060.400A*
I have only seen one of these. It has a white dial very similar to 06.0250.400 and a case shape that is closest to 06.0210.400. It has a 400 movement. It has a snap back case and I have been able to look at the inside and again found the maker's mark 50 BO indicating that the case was made by *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.

_An 06.0060.400A_

















*Reference 06.0062.400*
I have only found two of these with very different dials. These have heavy gold cases with a snap back. One with a white enamel dial and gold bezel with any markings except a ridge at 12, 3, 6 and 9. And the other with dark chocolate brown dial with gold indices and subdials reminiscent of a Rolex Daytona (that BTW at about the same time was fitted with an El Primero movement). The second one belongs to me and can be seen below. Interestingly it has the exact same case shape and size as an El Primero Clipper (see follow up post below; NB the Clipper is NOT an 06 El Primero). Again made by the goldsmith *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.

_My 06.0062.400_
























_A white dial 06.0062.400_









*Reference 06.0173.410*
I have only been able to find one of these that have a completely round case with fancy lugs. As all the others it is 18K gold and has a white enamel dial. Since it is a 410 movement it has blue triple date and moon phase. Please note that this one also lacks El Primero on the dial. The gold maker's mark 218 BO on the inside of the back lid indicates that is was made in Bologna by the goldsmith *LUCIO ZUCCHINI*.

_Here is an 06.0173.410_










*Reference 06.0190.400*
I have only seen one examples that resembles 06.0210.400 below, but has a smooth bezel. Note that there is no El Primero mentioned on the dial (usually indicating early production). I have been able to look closer on one of these and it has a snap back case and is labeled with 50 BO inside indicating that the case again was made by the very productive *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna. I houses a 400 movement indicating production after 1986, but probably closely after based on the lack of El Primero on the dial.










*Reference 06.0191.400*
I have only seen two examples of this one that is the only panda dial EPB I have identified. Note that there is no El Primero mentioned on the dial. I have been able to look closer on one of these and it has a snap back case and is labeled with 50 BO indicating that the case again was made by *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna (productive goldsmith!). Interestingly, it is the second model I have found that has a 40.0 movement indicating early production in 1985-86.

_An 06.0191.400 _










*Reference 06.0193.400*
I have only seen one example of this model that has the same case as 06.0191.400 above, but a white dial. Also on this one there is no El Primero mentioned on the dial (usually indicating early production). I have not been able to look inside, but it is highly likely that *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna made the case. I do not know which movement version it houses. Probably made around 1985-1988 (if 40.0 earlier in that range, and if 400 after 1986).









*Reference 06.0200.400*
I have only been able to find two of these (one of them is now mine;-, but interestingly enough this is the one that looks closest to Rössler's example in _Zenith - Swiss Manufacture since 1965_. It has a 18K case with fairly long lugs, a pulsation bezel (instead of tachymeter in the book), and a white enamel dial with golden subdials.

_My 06.0200.400







_

*Reference 06.0210.400*
This is were it all started for me, because I actually owned the model mentioned by Rössler (see comparison below) and know that it is not gold plated but a heavy gold case and a snap back. It also has a solid silver dial with 18K gold hands and indices (verified by my watchmaker that serviced it; he said that on this watch nothing in terms of materials and workmanship was spared). It also has a domed sapphire glass (see images below). As you can see the reference is 06.0210.400. On the inside of the back cover it says CTRD BY ZENITH and 750. I have gathered images of 6 additional unique ones on various sites, and they all have the same configuration. The hallmark with a star followed by 50 BO means that the case was made by the goldsmith *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.

_My 06.0210.400_









_My 06.0210.400 and the incomplete listing in Rössler's book_









_More pictures of my 06.0210.400_
































*Reference 06.0250.400*
This one seems to be one of the more common ones and I have seen at least six of these. They have an elegant more dress like look with a flat fairly wide bezel, white enamel dial, and snap back case. One of them has a black dial very similar to the one seen on reference 06.0050.400. I have been able to look at the inside of a couple of these and they also have the maker's mark 50 BO indicating that the case was made by *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna. Now I have been able to acquire one with this reference with a blue dial I have only seen twice. It has a very heavy case and the watch weighs 60g without a bracelet. I have added an image of this one.

_My blue 06.0250.400_
























_A white 06.0250.400_








_A black 06.0250.400







_

*Reference 06.0270.400*
Until very recently I had only seen one example of this one (mine) but thanks to @Malilis I have now seen an image of a second one. It differs design wise quite a lot from the others with a ridged perimeter and fancy lugs. It has a silver guilloche dial with roman indices and hands in gold. One peculiar thing is that CHRONOGRAPHE ends with an E. This one also lacks El Primero on the dial and in addition this one has a 40.0 labeled movement that was just briefly used during the El Primero revival in the mid 80s before establishing 400 as the standard designation. It doesn't differ much from 3019PHC, but had Kif shock protection like in the 400 instead of Incabloc (see movement picture). This might indicate that this is a very early Italian El Primero (probably around 85-86 since the 40.0 was only produced for about a year). It actually looks a lot like a deluxe version of the Cosmopolitan model 20.0030.400 from 1987. The gold maker's mark 218 BO shows that is was made in Bologna by the goldsmith *LUCIO ZUCCHINI*. This makes complete sense since the case has the same shape as 06.0173.410 above.

_My 06.0270.400 _







































*Reference 06.0271.400*
Nearly identical to 06.00270.400 above, but gold quilloche dial instead of silver and a red seconds chronograph hand. Also has the 40.0 movement and gold maker's mark 218 BO showing that is was also made in Bologna by the goldsmith *LUCIO ZUCCHINI*.

_06.0271.400







_

*CONCLUSIONS*
So based on my findings:
1. Zenith in collaboration with Italian goldsmiths produced a number of high quality El Primeros starting in potentially as early as 1985 and a couple of years into the 1990s.
2. These watches are not mentioned in any regular catalogues or covered in the standard books about Zenith.
3. They are all in 18K gold.
4. The reference numbers are starting with 06.
5. Most likely they were produced in limited numbers and some configurations might even be unique (like my brown 06.0062.400).
6. One particular reference number seems to have been assigned to models with quite different dials, but for now it at least seems to be only one case model within the reference (we'll see if that holds up).
7. They are all marked on the inside of the back lid with CTRD BY ZENITH and 750.
8. There is also a star, a number and two letters (always BO). I have figured out that these are Italian maker's marks. BO indicate the province Bologna and the number the actual goldsmith. All except three of the known ones are marked 50 BO which shows they were made by the goldsmith *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna. The other maker's mark 218 BO also means production in Bologna by *LUCIO ZUCCHINI*. Both firms seem to still be in business.
9. All models except 06.0050.400, 06.0051.400, and 06.0053.400 have snap back cases. This in contrast to Rössler's statement about them all being waterproof.
10. As Zenith fans we should be very grateful to these Italian master goldsmiths that made fantastic El Primeros together with Zenith when mechanical movements where frowned upon!

I would be very happy if you my fellow Zenith fans could add information and images of additional Italian El Primeros! Especially additional references and maker's marks on the inside of the back lids.

Finally it should be mentioned that Zenith seemed to use references starting with 06 for a few whole gold Zenith Prime with glass backs (06.0010.420), but there is no evidence that these were cased in Italy. There are also a few 06 whole gold 1980-1990 Captains with ETA movements (Datejust lookalikes), and a few other dress watch models from the 1970s with 25x2xy movements. Some of these were definitely cased in Italy, since I have seen the same CTRD BY Zenith and Italian maker's marks.

Thanks for your time and love to get feedback! This will for sure be work in progress, and I have already edited based on friendly and very useful feedback;-)


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## fskywalker

watchhunterandcollector said:


> View attachment 15379226
> 
> As a Zenith and El Primero addict I have over the years been scouting offline and online sources for interesting finds. One of the more intriguing ones are what I call the Italian El Primeros or the 06s. Some of you might have come across these on auction sites and in forums. The foremost authority on Zenith and especially El Primeros, Manfred Rössler only makes a brief mention about these on page 273 in the English version of _Zenith - Swiss Manufacture since 1965 _saying "In 1989 some El Primero movements were sent to Italy together with each faces.... cases are all made of 18K gold.... The watch faces are enamelled." There is also an image of the face of one of these with a white enamelled face with golden subdials. There is no mention of a reference or production numbers.
> 
> Very little additional information can be found in Rössler's _El Primero - Der Chronograph_ that claims to list most if not all known El Primero models from 1969 to 2001 including Movado and a number of other makers that used the movement in some of their models (like Rolex, Concord, Ebel, Dubois, Panerai to mention a few). However, on page 41 there is a listing of supposedly gold plated model with the reference 20.02xx.400.
> 
> *Reference 06.0210.400*
> This is were it all started for me, because I actually owned the model mentioned above and know that it is not gold plated but a heavy gold case and a snap back. It also has a solid silver dial with 18K gold hands and indices (verified by my watchmaker that serviced it; he said that on this watch nothing in terms of materials and workmanship was spared). It also has a domed sapphire glass (see images below). As you can see the reference is 06.0210.400. On the inside of the back cover it says CTRD BY ZENITH and 750. I have gathered images of 4 additional unique ones on various sites, and they all have the same configuration.
> View attachment 15379198
> View attachment 15379195
> View attachment 15379193
> View attachment 15379194
> 
> 
> Ever since I have tried to find more of these and have now gathered a list of below references. Due to copyright issues I for now only describe them in words and only show images of the ones I own and have photographed myself.
> 
> *Reference 06.0050.400*
> One of the models I have seen there most examples of (at least 7 unique ones). The have white enamel dials, gold engraved tachymeter scale, and a screwed back labeled ZENITH, 06-0050-400, WATER RESISTANT, and 18K 750. Some also have a magnificent integrated 18K bracelet. I have also seen two example with black dials.
> 
> *Reference 06.0050.400*
> I have only seen two of these looking exactly the same. Very similar to the reference above, but instead if a white or black dial this one has a dial that seems to be in solid gold.
> 
> *Reference 06.0062.400*
> I have only found two of these with very different dials. These have heavy gold cases with a snap back. One with a white enamel dial and gold bezel with any markings except a ridge at 12, 3, 6 and 9. And the other with dark chocolate brown dial with gold indices and subdials reminiscent of a Rolex Daytona (that BTW at about the same time was fitted with El Primero movements). The second one belongs to me and can be seen below. Intrestingly it has the exact same case shape and size as an El Primero Clipper (see last image for a comparison).
> View attachment 15379211
> View attachment 15379214
> View attachment 15379216
> View attachment 15379212
> View attachment 15379213
> View attachment 15379224
> 
> 
> *Reference 06.0173.410*
> I have only been able to find one of these that have a completely round case with fancy lugs. As all the others it is 18K gold and has a white enamel dial. Since it is a 410 movement has blue triple date and moon phase.
> 
> *Reference 06.0200.400*
> I have only been able to find one of these, but interestingly enough this is the one that looks closest to the example form Rössler's example in _Zenith - Swiss Manufacture since 1965_. It has a 18K case with fairly long lugs, a pulsation bezel (instead of tachymeter in the book), a white enamel dial with golden subdials.
> 
> *Reference 06.0250.400*
> This one seems to be one of the more common ones and I have seen at least four of these. They have an elegant more dress like look with a flat fairly wide bezel, white enamel dial, and snap back case. One of them has a black dial very similar to the one seen on reference 06.0050.400.
> 
> *Reference 06.0270.400*
> This one I have only seen one example of. It differs design wise quite a lot from the others with a ridged perimeter and fancy lugs. It has a silver guilloche dial with roman indices and hand in gold.
> 
> I would be very happy if you my fellow Zenith fans could add information and images of additional Italian El Primeros. Finally it should be mentioned that Zenith seemed to use references starting with 06 for a few whole gold Zenith Prime with glass backs (06.0010.420) and a few whole gold Captains with ETA movements. I do not know if these also were cased in Italy, but it is not impossible.
> 
> Thanks for your time and love to get feedback!


Cool, thanks for sharing!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## sempervivens

Thank you for an excellent write-up! This is very useful as little was known about these models before.

Of course it would make it easier if you could show pictures of all of them but honestly the description in words is more valuable.

For instance: when you start to list the references you mention twice in a row (and describe them as different models) *Reference 06.0050.400*.

Next you describe _and show pictures_ of two models with the same ref. 06.0062.400.

This makes it easier for me to understand that there are some models with the same reference number although they may have different cases and dials (still a bit confusing, Zenith!)


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## watchhunterandcollector

Thanks for the kind words! I actually made a mistake with one! Will edit!


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## watchhunterandcollector

fskywalker said:


> Cool, thanks for sharing!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro





sempervivens said:


> Thank you for an excellent write-up! This is very useful as little was known about these models before.
> 
> Of course it would make it easier if you could show pictures of all of them but honestly the description in words is more valuable.
> 
> For instance: when you start to list the references you mention twice in a row (and describe them as different models) *Reference 06.0050.400*.
> 
> Next you describe _and show pictures_ of two models with the same ref. 06.0062.400.
> 
> This makes it easier for me to understand that there are some models with the same reference number although they may have different cases and dials (still a bit confusing, Zenith!)


I have now added at least one example image of all the references with links to their original source. I hope no one gets offended by my use of the images (please let me know and I'll act accordingly). It might actually boost sales (I have no connection to any of the ones for sale, except than that I might try to get another one;-)).


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## sempervivens

Excellent, thanks again for this original and useful overview!


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## Rollied

This needed to be pinned!! Great info!


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## swissra

Worth checking out this thread. Thanks for sharing.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Have added a few reference images and some more information.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Uppdated with a bunch of images of my 06.0270.400!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Updated with an additional variant of 06.0051.400. The plot thickens;-)


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## watchhunterandcollector

Updated with lots of movement pictures and markings inside the cases! Also the conclusions have been updated and clarified. Appreciate your input!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Breaking news! All known ones seem to have been made in Bologna! And all except one by the goldsmith Andreolo Guglielmo. One was made by Lucio Zucchini. Both firms seem to still be in business!


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## sempervivens

That is very interesting. Source?


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## watchhunterandcollector

Two different sources! Required some searching;-) The second one was also confirmed by a fellow collector on Instagram. I'm thinking about approaching the companies!

50 BO





ITALIAN SILVERSMITHS - ARGENTIERI ITALIANI: BO MARK


the directory of Italian silversmiths of Bologna - lista dei punzoni degli argentieri italiani registrati a Bologna



www.silvercollection.it





218 BO





Silver Forums at 925-1000.com


Antique Silver Hallmark Identification Forums



www.925-1000.com


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## watchhunterandcollector

Now updated with one additional model, 06.0050.400B and some conclusions! I have to start to remove some of the (unnecessary) pictures of my own watches since I can only upload 50 images in total;-)


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## sempervivens

Sorry I don't understand, is there a limit for pictures you can upload?


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## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Sorry I don't understand, is there a limit for pictures you can upload?


Yes, I got an error message when trying to upload more than 50!


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## sempervivens

It must be a mistake maybe a temporary error.


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## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> It must be a mistake maybe a temporary error.


Surely hope so!


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## Malilis

Good morning !
I happen to have one of these .400 movement in my chronograph from 1986 when Zenith resumed producing their El Primero chronographs ..
Here is the link to my post about it " El Primero 40.0 "
This watch is working like a charm .. the only moment would be as mentioned already that the pushers are very stiff especially the one to start/stop the chrono hand .. probably partial because they are small !
Thank you for your attention,


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## watchhunterandcollector

Hi, very nice El Primero you have!
However, technically yours is not one of the Italian El Primeros that always start with 06 in the reference and are made of solid gold, but a Cosmopolitan gold plated fairly rare model (ref 20.0020.400), I'll check the production number later today) that was in Zenith's regular catalogue and is described in Rössler's books about Zenith (as also @sempervivens clarified). But you are right it is from the same time as the Italian ones, and it is very interesting to hear that it also has a 40.0 movement (only produced for about a year), like my Italian reference 06.0270.400! It is also very interesting that in your first post you actually have an image of this model and compare it to yours. This is then only the second one I have seen and I agree that design wise they are related!
Congrats to a very nice watch! Hang on to it since it is wonderful and rare!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Updated with one more reference, 06.0271.400. Second one with a verified 40.0 movement.


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## Malilis

Hello !
Thanks for this clarification ! Recently, I thought I would find a capped crown to replace the one on the watch at present .. the front of the cap is gone .. but it seems it is very difficult to secure !! the size (6.mm) is a problem evidently .. and I aint gonna try Zenith again .. I lost quite a bit of time trying to get from them the "breguet" type handles you can see on the comparative image in my above referenced post, they even sent me the very same baton handles (I returned those). Any information would be appreciated !
Have a nice sunday!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Can be really difficult to find correct crowns! I have bought a few from this guy:





Zenith







watchesulike.com




I don't understand why you want other hands. The ones you have are correct for your model as far as I can tell!


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## Malilis

Thank you for the information .. I dont want to change the hands anymore .. I thought about it at first because I have always liked the Breguet type hands and because I saw this picture of the Zenith with Breguet hands .. but it is now water over the dam ..!!


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## cuthbert

watchhunterandcollector said:


> Two different sources! Required some searching;-) The second one was also confirmed by a fellow collector on Instagram. I'm thinking about approaching the companies!
> 
> 50 BO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ITALIAN SILVERSMITHS - ARGENTIERI ITALIANI: BO MARK
> 
> 
> the directory of Italian silversmiths of Bologna - lista dei punzoni degli argentieri italiani registrati a Bologna
> 
> 
> 
> www.silvercollection.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 218 BO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Silver Forums at 925-1000.com
> 
> 
> Antique Silver Hallmark Identification Forums
> 
> 
> 
> www.925-1000.com


As an Italian I can explain few things: in that country gold watches were popular as gifts for graduation, retirement and other personal milestones, before the EU importing gold watches from Switzerland was quite expensive so many jewelers since the 30s had the habit to cast or source somewhere from Italy gold cases, importing Swiss movements and then assemble them.

This was especially popular with Longines and Zenith that were always considered premium brands before Rolex brainwashed the entire industry.

In the 90s the Primero was extremely popular ( I remember commercial ads on TV) again as a graduation gift, Bologna has one of the most important universities in the country (think about Uppsala) therefore I am not surprised a local jeweler made a good amount of "custom" Primeros.


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## watchhunterandcollector

cuthbert said:


> As an Italian I can explain few things: in that country gold watches were popular as gifts for graduation, retirement and other personal milestones, before the EU importing gold watches from Switzerland was quite expensive so many jewelers since the 30s had the habit to cast or source somewhere from Italy gold cases, importing Swiss movements and then assemble them.
> 
> This was especially popular with Longines and Zenith that were always considered premium brands before Rolex brainwashed the entire industry.
> 
> In the 90s the Primero was extremely popular ( I remember commercial ads on TV) again as a graduation gift, Bologna has one of the most important universities in the country (think about Uppsala) therefore I am not surprised a local jeweler made a good amount of "custom" Primeros.


Thank you so much for sharing your insights about the Italian view on these watches! It certainly adds depth to my story and at some point I would like to try to visit these goldsmiths in Bologna. I have visited the old university campus and the anatomical theatre before, and now I have another reason to go;-)


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## cuthbert

I got my degree there but to be honest I prefer Scandinavian universities like DTU and KTH.

What I can say is that in the 90s the Primero was quite popular as gift for the graduation, surely because of the Rolex connection, it was known the Primero coated half of the Daytona but had a better movement.

In Italy "lone Star" Zeniths were always popular, even non watch people knew about them, Cairelli was a famous jeweler from Rome that in the 50s and 60s supplied the Air Force with the famous cronometri tipo CP1 and CP2, they also had a privileged relationship with Zenith because of this, that is the reason why I find funny to read here local watchmakers have trouble servicing a Primero...almost all the Italian watchmakers I know know how to service this calibre and most of them will say it's the best chrono movement ever made.


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## Age_of_Surfaces

watchhunterandcollector said:


> _My 06.0062.400, 06.0210.400, and 06.0270.400_
> View attachment 15385080
> 
> 
> As a Zenith and El Primero addict I have over the years been scouting offline and online sources for interesting finds. Some of the more intriguing ones are what I call the Italian El Primeros or the 06s. Some of you might have come across these on auction sites and in forums. The foremost authority on Zenith and especially El Primeros, Manfred Rössler only makes a brief mention about these on page 273 in the English version of _Zenith - Swiss Manufacture since 1965 _saying "In 1989 some El Primero movements were sent to Italy together with watch faces.... cases are all made of 18K gold.... The watch faces are enamelled." There is also an image of the face of one of these with a white enamelled face with golden subdials. There is no mention of a reference or production numbers.
> 
> Very little additional information can be found in Rössler's _El Primero - Der Chronograph_ that claims to list most if not all known El Primero models from 1969 to 2001 including Movado and a number of other makers that used the movement in some of their models (like Rolex, Concord, Ebel, Dubois, Panerai to mention a few). However, on page 41 there is a listing of a supposedly gold plated model with the reference 20.02xx.400.
> 
> *Reference 06.0210.400*
> This is were it all started for me, because I actually owned the model mentioned above and know that it is not gold plated but a heavy gold case and a snap back. It also has a solid silver dial with 18K gold hands and indices (verified by my watchmaker that serviced it; he said that on this watch nothing in terms of materials and workmanship was spared). It also has a domed sapphire glass (see images below). As you can see the reference is 06.0210.400. On the inside of the back cover it says CTRD BY ZENITH and 750. I have gathered images of 6 additional unique ones on various sites, and they all have the same configuration. The hallmark with a star followed by 50 BO means that the case was made by the goldsmith *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.
> 
> _My 06.0210.400_
> View attachment 15379198
> 
> 
> _My 06.0210.400 and the incomplete listing in Rössler's book_
> View attachment 15379195
> 
> 
> _More pictures of my 06.0210.400_
> View attachment 15387099
> 
> 
> View attachment 15379194
> 
> View attachment 15388453
> View attachment 15388454
> View attachment 15388455
> View attachment 15388456
> View attachment 15388457
> View attachment 15388458
> 
> 
> Ever since I have tried to find more of these and have now gathered a list of below references, with descriptions in words. I have also borrowed some example images from previous sales. I only show additional images of the ones I own and have photographed myself.
> 
> *Reference 06.0050.400*
> One of the models I have seen the most examples of. Most have white enamel dial, gold engraved tachymeter scale, and a screwed back labeled ZENITH, 06-0050-400, WATER RESISTANT, and 18K 750. Some also have a magnificent integrated 18K bracelet. I have also seen two example s with black dials. I have been able to look at the inside of a couple of these and they also have the maker's mark 50 BO indicating that the case was made by *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.
> 
> _An example of white dial 06.0050.400_
> View attachment 15379913
> 
> 
> _And another 06.0050.400 with integrated bracelet_
> View attachment 15379915
> 
> 
> _A 06.0050.400 with a rare black dial_
> View attachment 15381754
> 
> 
> _A typical screwed back case of a 06.0050.400_
> View attachment 15409016
> 
> 
> *Reference 06.0050.400B*
> I thought I had seen all references when I stumbled upon this one. Looks exactly like 06.0050.400 from the dial side, but has a snap back instead of a screwed one. I have not been able to establish a maker of this case, but *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *seems like a safe bet.
> 
> _Front and back of an 06.0050.400B
> View attachment 15408990
> View attachment 15408989
> _
> 
> *Reference 06.0051.400*
> I had until recently only seen two of these looking exactly the same. Very similar to 06.0050.400 above, but instead if a white or black dial this one has a dial that seems to be in solid gold. One important difference is that it does not say El Primero on the dial. My take on this is that this means early production (maybe 1989) since the 1988-1989 Defy and Clipper did not have this text, while somewhat later models did. One of the examples I found also has the maker's mark 50 BO indicating that it also was made by *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO.*
> 
> So when I thought I figured this reference out a fellow collector on Instagram (Hat tip to @livingstonatnight) shares pictures of his example that actually looks a lot more like a 06.0050.400 with a white dial and is El Primero labeled. He also provided pictures of the 400 movement and the inside of the lid with the prototypical label CTRD BY ZENITH (see below). So much for my theory about early production of this reference. Might still hold true for some of them, but the use of the same references for quite different configurations is confusing. The hallmark on the second one shows that this case was also made by the goldsmith *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.
> 
> _Here is an 06.0051.400_
> View attachment 15379919
> 
> 
> _An 06.0051 belonging to @livingstonatnight
> View attachment 15387309
> View attachment 15387311
> _
> View attachment 15387439
> View attachment 15387440
> 
> 
> *Reference 06.0062.400*
> I have only found two of these with very different dials. These have heavy gold cases with a snap back. One with a white enamel dial and gold bezel with any markings except a ridge at 12, 3, 6 and 9. And the other with dark chocolate brown dial with gold indices and subdials reminiscent of a Rolex Daytona (that BTW at about the same time was fitted with an El Primero movement). The second one belongs to me and can be seen below. Intrestingly it has the exact same case shape and size as an El Primero Clipper (see last image for a comparison; NB the Clipper is NOT an 06 El Primero). Again made by the goldsmith *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.
> 
> _My 06.0062.400_
> View attachment 15379211
> View attachment 15379214
> View attachment 15379212
> View attachment 15379213
> 
> View attachment 15388459
> View attachment 15388460
> View attachment 15388461
> View attachment 15388462
> View attachment 15388463
> 
> 
> _My Clipper from 1989 (19.0120.400) beside my 06.0062.400_
> View attachment 15379224
> 
> 
> _A white dial 06.0062.400_
> View attachment 15379928
> 
> 
> *Reference 06.0173.410*
> I have only been able to find one of these that have a completely round case with fancy lugs. As all the others it is 18K gold and has a white enamel dial. Since it is a 410 movement it has blue triple date and moon phase. Please note that this one also lacks El Primero on the dial. The gold maker's mark 218 BO on the inside of the back lid indicates that is was made in Bologna by the goldsmith *LUCIO ZUCCHINI*.
> 
> _Here is an 06.0173.410_
> View attachment 15379931
> 
> *Reference 06.0200.400*
> I have only been able to find one of these, but interestingly enough this is the one that looks closest to Rössler's example in _Zenith - Swiss Manufacture since 1965_. It has a 18K case with fairly long lugs, a pulsation bezel (instead of tachymeter in the book), and a white enamel dial with golden subdials.
> 
> _An 06.0200.400
> View attachment 15379945
> _
> 
> *Reference 06.0250.400*
> This one seems to be one of the more common ones and I have seen at least four of these. They have an elegant more dress like look with a flat fairly wide bezel, white enamel dial, and snap back case. One of them has a black dial very similar to the one seen on reference 06.0050.400. I have been able to look at the inside of a couple of these and they also have the maker's mark 50 BO indicating that the case was made by *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna.
> 
> _A white 06.0250.400_
> View attachment 15379952
> 
> _A black 06.0250.400
> View attachment 15379954
> _
> 
> *Reference 06.0270.400*
> Until very recently I had only seen one example of this one (mine) but thanks to @Malilis I have now seen an image of a second one. It differs design wise quite a lot from the others with a ridged perimeter and fancy lugs. It has a silver guilloche dial with roman indices and hands in gold. One peculiar thing is that CHRONOGRAPHE ends with an E. This one also lacks El Primero on the dial and in addition this one has a 40.0 labeled movement that was just briefly used during the El Primero revival in the mid 80s before establishing 400 as the standard designation. It doesn't differ much from 3019PCH, but had Kif shock protection like in the 400 instead of Incabloc (see movement picture). This might indicate that this is a very early Italian El Primero (maybe even before 1989). It actually looks a lot like a deluxe version of the Cosmopolitan model 20.0030.400 from 1987. The gold maker's mark 218 BO shows that is was made in Bologna by the goldsmith *LUCIO ZUCCHINI*. This makes complete sense since the case has the same shape as 06.0173.410 above.
> 
> _My 06.0270.400 _
> View attachment 15383719
> View attachment 15383718
> 
> View attachment 15383722
> View attachment 15383723
> 
> View attachment 15388464
> View attachment 15388465
> View attachment 15388466
> View attachment 15388467
> View attachment 15388468
> View attachment 15388469
> 
> 
> _The Cosmopolitan model from Rössler''s El Primero book
> View attachment 15381721
> _
> 
> *Reference 06.0271.400*
> Nearly identical to 06.00270.400 above, but gold quilloche dial instead of silver and a red seconds chronograph hand. Also has the 40.0 movement and gold maker's mark 218 BO showing that is was also made in Bologna by the goldsmith *LUCIO ZUCCHINI*.
> 
> _06.0271.400
> View attachment 15421147
> _
> 
> *Conclusion and final remarks*
> So based on my findings:
> 1. Zenith in collaboration with Italian goldsmiths produced a number of high quality El Primeros starting in potentially as early as 1985 and a couple of years into the 1990s.
> 2. These watches are not mentioned in any regular catalogues or covered in the standard books about Zenith.
> 3. They are all in 18K gold.
> 4. The reference numbers are starting with 06.
> 5. Most likely they were produced in limited numbers and some configurations might even be unique (like my brown 06.0062.490).
> 6. One particular reference number seems to have been assigned to models with quite different dials, but for now it at least seems to be only one case model within the reference (we'll see if that holds up).
> 7. They are all marked on the inside of the back lid with CTRD BY ZENITH and 750.
> 8. There is also a star, a number and two letters (always BO). I have now figured out that these are Italian maker's marks. BO indicate the province Bologna and the number the actual goldsmith. All except three of the known ones are marked 50 BO which shows they were made by the goldsmith *ANDREOLI GUGLIELMO *in Bologna. The other maker's mark 218 BO also means production in Bologna by *LUCIO ZUCCHINI*. Both firms seem to still be in business.
> 9. All models except 06.0050.400 and 06.0051.400 have snap back cases. This in contrast to Rössler's statement about them being water proof.
> 10. As Zenith fans we should be very grateful to these Italian master goldsmiths that made fantastic El Primeros together with Zenith when mechanical movements where frowned upon!
> 
> I would be very happy if you my fellow Zenith fans could add information and images of additional Italian El Primeros! Especially additional references and maker's marks on the inside of the back lids.
> 
> Finally it should be mentioned that Zenith seemed to use references starting with 06 for a few whole gold Zenith Prime with glass backs (06.0010.420), and a few whole gold Captains with ETA movements (Datejust lookalikes). I do not know if these also were cased in Italy, but it is not impossible.
> 
> Thanks for your time and love to get feedback! This will for sure be work in progress, and I have already edited based on friendly and very useful feedback;-)


This is a spectacularly good post. Thank you for taking all the time to put it together. I learnt a lot.

I've tried speaking with Zenith's Heritage department in Le Locle, with their regional president where I live, and with the designer of an individual piece. In each case I've been left slightly disappointed by how little they appear to know about their own watches. It seems like it's up to owners and enthusiasts to plug the gaps. Best regards.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Age_of_Surfaces said:


> This is a spectacularly good post. Thank you for taking all the time to put it together. I learnt a lot.
> 
> I've tried speaking with Zenith's Heritage department in Le Locle, with their regional president where I live, and with the designer of an individual piece. In each case I've been left slightly disappointed by how little they appear to know about their own watches. It seems like it's up to owners and enthusiasts to plug the gaps. Best regards.


🙏🏻 Thanks for the kind words! It is getting feedback like this that makes the digging worthwhile! Cheers / Mattias


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## watchhunterandcollector

Breaking news! This blue dialed 06.0250.400 is on its way home. NOT original bracelet. Will post more images and update the original post in due time!


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## sempervivens

Congratulations! I never realised there was such an amazing variety of these exclusive Italian gold Primero's.


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## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations! I never realised there was such an amazing variety of these exclusive Italian gold Primero's.


Thank you my Zenith friend! Nor did I until I started digging;-) There are not that many references, but as you say still amazing variation. Some of them have probably only been made in a handful of copies! This is the first one I have seen with a blue dial; the contrast between the gold and the deep blue is something extra. Can't wait to get my hands on it!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Now my blue 06.0250.400 has arrived! I could only upload one image to the original post since I can now confirm that only 50 images are allowed per post! Here are some additional shots! When I get time, I might reorganize a bit, to be able to update the original post! I'll also try to take daylight shot, because the blue color is actually lighter to the eye than what the images indicate. The madness continues;-)


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## watchhunterandcollector

A daylight image on a NOS 🐊!


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## watchhunterandcollector

I have just added one more reference, 06.0191.400 and reorganized a bit! Now, the total count is 11 unique references of which a few also have different dial colors and appearance. Please take a look and tell me what you think and I would love to get information and images of additional Italian Primeros you have identified or just more images of the already mentioned ones🙏🏻 I will post more detail images of mine in new posts in the next few days!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Some more shots of my *06.0270.400*! I have seen that there is one for sale right now on a major online marketplace. This is only the third one I have seen! No connection to me;-)


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## watchhunterandcollector

Here's are links to three current eBay listings with Italian 06 El Primeros, and actually two of the rarer ones! I do not endorse these auctions in any way, and have no connection to the sellers! I just want to link to them for reference, and I would be happy if you also link when you find one of these online, so we can increase the knowledge! The last one, the 06.0210.400 is actually erroneously described as a Chronomaster.

A 06.0270.400








Zenith EL First Gold | Wooden Original Box | Ref. 06.0270.400 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Zenith EL First Gold | Wooden Original Box | Ref. 06.0270.400 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





A 06.0250.400 (Blue)








Watch zenith Chronos EL First Gold 18kt. Ref. 3060255400 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Watch zenith Chronos EL First Gold 18kt. Ref. 3060255400 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





A 06.0210.400








Zenith Chronomaster gold 06.0210.400 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Zenith Chronomaster gold 06.0210.400 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


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## sempervivens

Amazing variety for these rare Bolognese El Primero's!


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## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Amazing variety for these rare Bolognese El Primero's!


I think we officially should start using that name for them🙏🏻 EPB. El Primero Bolognese!


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## sempervivens

Well if it doesn't remind one too much of the spaghetti! Bologna is actually a very nice city. And studded with good jewellers and watches.


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## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Well if it doesn't remind one too much of the spaghetti! Bologna is actually a very nice city. And studded with good jewellers and watches.


I visited once many years ago, but I would very much like to go back and check out the goldsmiths and see if I can find additional EPBs!


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## watchhunterandcollector

One more reference (*06.0060.400A)* added to the OP!


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## sempervivens

Here are a few comments or questions:


do you think the models by Zucchini are the oldest?
do you think the one with cal. 410 could in fact be a cal 3019 PHF considering the blue calendar disks?
since for most of these models you've seen very few, or even only one sample, could you estimate production numbers?
what do you think 'CTRD by ZENITH' means?


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## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Here are a few comments or questions:
> 
> 
> do you think the models by Zucchini are the oldest?
> do you think the one with cal. 410 could in fact be a cal 3019 PHF considering the blue calendar disks?
> since for most of these models you've seen very few, or even only one sample, could you estimate production numbers?
> what do you think 'CTRD by ZENITH' means?


Very good questions and comments @sempervivens ! I'm not sure my answers will be all that clear, but I can try;-)

1. Yes, I think these are from 1985-1987, since the 06.0270.400 has the 40.0 movement that was produced 1985-1986 and the 06.0173.410 has a 410 movement that I believe was produced from 1987 and onwards.

2. No, it is for sure a 410 since I have been able to look inside this single example (see image below)! If it would have been a 3019PHF it would possibly have been even earlier (I think that movement was produced 1970-76, but we of course know of examples of old movement being cased much later!).

3. Now I'm on very thin ice, but will try with some guesstimates;-) Based on how often you see on the market certain watches you know the production numbers for (like some quite rare DeLucas, Clipper, EP Defy etc).

The most common ones like 06.0210.400 (just one variant known), 06.0050.400 (a few variations), and 06.0250.400 (black, white and blue dials) I would guess production numbers of 100-150 each
For the rarer ones it becomes very difficult to guess. It doesn't make sense to make just one, but some like the 06.0062.400, the 06.0270.400, the 06.0271.400 and the 06.0173.410 I think only a handful of each were made. Some configurations with a certain dial color might be even scarcer, like the brown dial 06.0062.400 and the blue dial 06.0250.400

4. I think it means that Zenith controlled and approved of the design and workmanship of the cases. Hard to know if Zenith was involved in checking all the pieces or just approved of the models in bulk, but I would guess the latter!

Cheers!


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## watchhunterandcollector

One more very rare El Primero Bolognese has been added to the OP (Reference 06.0050.400/1)! Superb design if you ask me. Here's a sneak peak:


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## watchhunterandcollector

I've just added more information in the OP about the now verified reference 06.0191.400! Have a good weekend everyone!


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## mino86

Hello to all of you,
any help to identify this original zenith automatic chronograph that has been sold in late 80's in italy?No reference number anywhere on the case,which has the glass back and it's possible to see through the movement (31 jewelers swiss made-40.0).
From your accurate descriptions, I assume that the watch belongs to "06" italian production of El primero.Any help on its identification and value estimation on the market?


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## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to Watchuseek! I am afraid that I can't help you except to confirm that it looks very much like a rather early "revival" model from the eighties. It must be rather small - the movement is 30mm across and the case doesn't look much bigger.....

Hartmut Richter


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## watchhunterandcollector

Very nice model, but it is not one of the 06 18k gold models as far as I can tell! I'm quite sure it is one of the Cosmopolitan models also made in the mid 80s. Is is quite rare, but was one of Zenith's catalog models. It has the reference 20.0030.400 and is gold plated. Here's the entry from Rössler's book about EP. Not often you see these on the market, but we don't do valuations here if I have understood the rules right!
Welcome to the wonderful world of El Primeros!


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## mino86

watchhunterandcollector said:


> Very nice model, but it is not one of the 06 18k gold models as far as I can tell! I'm quite sure it is one of the Cosmopolitan models also made in the mid 80s. Is is quite rare, but was one of Zenith's catalog models. It has the reference 20.0030.400 and is gold plated. Here's the entry from Rössler's book about EP. Not often you see these on the market, but we don't do valuations here if I have understood the rules right!
> Welcome to the wonderful world of El Primeros!
> View attachment 15736764


Thank you so much for your helpful indications.Is that means that the watch isn't an El Primero?


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## watchhunterandcollector

mino86 said:


> Thank you so much for your helpful indications.Is that means that the watch isn't an El Primero?


It is definitely an early revival El Primero! No doubt about that. And quite a rare and spectacular model with a glass back! I'm sorry if my answer didn't make that clear!
Cheers,
Mattias


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## WTSP

Fantastic! Thanks so much for this thorough overview of this niche in the Zenith catalogue. This looks like a very collectible set of rare models.


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## sempervivens

mino86 said:


> Hello to all of you,
> any help to identify this original zenith automatic chronograph that has been sold in late 80's in italy?No reference number anywhere on the case,which has the glass back and it's possible to see through the movement (31 jewelers swiss made-40.0).


The reference number is between the lugs.


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## Hartmut Richter

mino86 said:


> Thank you so much for your helpful indications.Is that means that the watch isn't an El Primero?


With the reference number as shown by Rössler ending in a .400, it is definitely an El Primero! I remember the Cosmopolitan line looking a little different, that's why I didn't look there. Silly me..... 

Hartmut Richter


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## watchhunterandcollector

WTSP said:


> Fantastic! Thanks so much for this thorough overview of this niche in the Zenith catalogue. This looks like a very collectible set of rare models.


Thanks for the kind words🙏🏻 I will continue digging and updating. I have a rare one incoming to my collection!


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## One-Seventy

mino86 said:


> Thank you so much for your helpful indications.Is that means that the watch isn't an El Primero?


El Primero isn't a model but the movement, which has been fitted into all sorts of models - in this case, the Cosmopolitan.

Occasionally, Zenith refers to the movement name within the model, such as "Zenith Chronomaster El Primero", but it's tautologous - by definition the Chronomaster has a chronograph movement.


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## watchhunterandcollector

One-Seventy said:


> El Primero isn't a model but the movement, which has been fitted into all sorts of models - in this case, the Cosmopolitan.
> 
> Occasionally, Zenith refers to the movement name within the model, such as "Zenith Chronomaster El Primero", but it's tautologous - by definition the Chronomaster has a chronograph movement.


Your are of course completely right! It has however become quite common to nickname them all El Primero (if they have the movement). Sounds better that models that do not even have a model name. Like 06.0062.400;-) Other prestige brands and models are also nicknamed by fans, and I kind of like it!


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## Hartmut Richter

One-Seventy said:


> El Primero isn't a model but the movement, which has been fitted into all sorts of models - in this case, the Cosmopolitan.
> 
> Occasionally, Zenith refers to the movement name within the model, such as "Zenith Chronomaster El Primero", but it's tautologous - by definition the Chronomaster has a chronograph movement.


That is not quite right, at least not historically: in the late 1990s, the ChronoMaster series also included Elite models, e.g.:









『ZENITH Chronomaster Elite HW　Reserve de Marche』


時計を撮影してみたんですが、超難しいですね。 40枚近く撮って、使えるかな？と思ったのは上の2枚だけでしたｗ10年位前に、ピンクゴールドの色合いが気に入っ…




ameblo.jp





Also, J-F Dufour in his time as Zenith CEO claimed in an interview that the original El Primero was a watch _line_, not a movement (although it was exclusively made up of chronographs). The name became associated with the movement and it stuck. I personally can't vouch for that but can only impart what Zenith claim.

Hartmut Richter


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## WTSP

Harmut, I think you're absolutely right. There was a time around 2015-2017 when El Primero and Elite were specific lines (or "collections") of watches with imperfect relations to the movements to which they referred. "36,000 VPH" was possibly also a collection, or maybe it was "El Primero 36,000 VPH". I believe that the El Primero line consisted entirely of chronographs, but the Elite line did contain the Elite Classic Chronograph, a beautiful watch but a terrible misnomer since it contained an El Primero.
Incoming Zenith Elite Chronograph Classic
Zenith Buyer's Guide 2016

Zenith released models called the "Zenith El Primero 36,000 VPH", which as Ariel Adams ironically points out "narrows them down to every single El Primero watch ever made".

I'm glad those days are behind us.


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## chronocollector

great post and very informative 
Even among Zenith collectors this reference is not really known (yet)
This post that keeps on growing should imo be pinned on top of the Zenith forum !!


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## wolke

watchhunterandcollector said:


> ... Thanks for your time and love to get feedback! This will for sure be work in progress, and I have already edited based on friendly and very useful feedback;-)


Hey dude, what a great post! Thank you so much for this research and writing, it highly helped me to decide regarding the purchase of a 06.0050.400 (of cause i bought it 😉). If you are intersted, its this italian beauty LINK REMOVED BY MODERATOR - PLEASE USE PM!

Just want to give you my guess regarding the different ref-numbers of the 06.005x.400. I am pretty sure it markes the type of strap. There are some examples with an original 18k gold bracelet on the market. It would have made a lot of sense to give this watches a special ref.-number as they had a much higher prize than the leather strap watches. So its clear that this ref (0051) is much rarer than the other one. And its also comprehensible that this ref was made with the golden dial only or mostly so you have an all gold watch.

What do you think? Aggree?

Best greatings from Berlin to Sweden, stay healthy!

Alex


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## joshd2012

Thanks for the excellent write up. Oddly enough, I saw one on a popular watch retail site this morning and didn’t even know what I was looking at until I read your post.


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## watchhunterandcollector

joshd2012 said:


> Thanks for the excellent write up. Oddly enough, I saw one on a popular watch retail site this morning and didn't even know what I was looking at until I read your post.


Thank you! Really appreciate the feedback!


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## watchhunterandcollector

wolke said:


> Hey dude, what a great post! Thank you so much for this research and writing, it highly helped me to decide regarding the purchase of a 06.0050.400 (of cause i bought it 😉). If you are intersted, its this italian beauty LINK REMOVED BY MODERATOR - PLEASE USE PM!
> 
> Just want to give you my guess regarding the different ref-numbers of the 06.005x.400. I am pretty sure it markes the type of strap. There are some examples with an original 18k gold bracelet on the market. It would have made a lot of sense to give this watches a special ref.-number as they had a much higher prize than the leather strap watches. So its clear that this ref (0051) is much rarer than the other one. And its also comprehensible that this ref was made with the golden dial only or mostly so you have an all gold watch.
> 
> What do you think? Aggree?
> 
> Best greatings from Berlin to Sweden, stay healthy!
> 
> Alex


Great that my post was of use! Concerning your theory about the reference number and straps/bracelets, I'm not so sure. All the ones with gold bracelets I have seen are 06.0050.400, and the few 06.0051.400 I have seen all have leather straps. There are also many 06.0050.400 with straps (the bracelet could of course have been removed). So I don't think there is any clear evidence that the last digit indicate bracelet/strap version, but I will keep it in mind in my continued research!


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## watchhunterandcollector

chronocollector said:


> great post and very informative
> Even among Zenith collectors this reference is not really known (yet)
> This post that keeps on growing should imo be pinned on top of the Zenith forum !!


Thanks for the kind words!


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## Mauretus

I am italian and this is my Zenith 060053400.























and this is its photo in the Rossler's book


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## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to Watchuseek! That is a nice watch - it looks a little like a "Rainbow" series prototype (since the Rainbow series only came out in the 1990s). Why do you keep the blue protective film on the back? I'd trash it immediately. However, it's your watch, of course, and therefore your choice.....

Hartmut Richter


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## Mauretus

Thank you Hartmut, I bought it last year in a Sicilian jewelry and I like it much. It was a NOS, I have weared it two or three times and so I didn't still trashed the blue protective film on the back.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Mauretus said:


> I am italian and this is my Zenith 060053400.
> View attachment 15986429
> View attachment 15986431
> View attachment 15986432
> 
> 
> and this is its photo in the Rossler's book
> View attachment 15986433


Absolutely fantastic! It's the first time I see a real example of that reference outside Rössler's book. Is it OK if I add your images to the original post? I will of course give you credit! I also agree with Hartmut; remove the blue plastic. It has served it's purpose;-) Do you happen to know if it has the 400 or 40.0 movement? It's probably early (1986-87) based on the lack of "El Primero" on the dial!
All the best,
Mattias


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## WTSP

Personally I like to wear my watches. However, the presence of the blue protective film is probably part of the reason this A384 reached CHF 40,000 at auction. Since it's just on the caseback of your 06.0053.400 I'd be tempted to keep it. Depends on what you want to do with the watch.
https://www.phillips.com/detail/zenith/CH080119/172


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## Acme

Excellent work! I wonder if it might be possible to find out exact production numbers? I assume the jewellers involved are still in business?
Anyway here is my addition to this superb informative thread!

- It may not be visible in the pictures, but this reference has a beautifully done enamel dial with a slight two-tone treatment!


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## Zeeebot

Hej OP, fellow collector from Sweden here.
Does any of your Bolognese come with paper and box? I was not able to find many examples. Just wondering if different goldsmith gave different boxes? Or if Zenith allowed them to sell the 06’s with the official Zenith boxes.
Many thanks


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## Acme

Zeeebot said:


> Hej OP, fellow collector from Sweden here.
> Does any of your Bolognese come with paper and box? I was not able to find many examples. Just wondering if different goldsmith gave different boxes? Or if Zenith allowed them to sell the 06’s with the official Zenith boxes.
> Many thanks


Hi! I have two of them, both came with a genuine Zenith Box. Just like the ones in the pictures.



















The one with the wooden box has a warranty card as well, so it was originally sold with that very box. The other one has no specific papers just the manual. I think the jewellers just added random Zenith boxes with them, as 06s sold in "full sets" online have various setups box-wise.

Sorry for the late response, but I rarely check this thread.

Regards Acme


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## Zeeebot

Acme said:


> Hi! I have two of them, both came with a genuine Zenith Box. Just like the ones in the pictures.
> 
> View attachment 16521861
> 
> 
> View attachment 16521863
> 
> 
> The one with the wooden box has a warranty card as well, so it was originally sold with that very box. The other one has no specific papers just the manual. I think the jewellers just added random Zenith boxes with them, as 06s sold in "full sets" online have various setups box-wise.
> 
> Sorry for the late response, but I rarely check this thread.
> 
> Regards Acme


Thanks for your reply, Acme. 
Very interesting topic. I haven't seen two different 06s variants use the same box indeed.
Have you ever get your 06s serviced by Zenith? I wonder if they actually consider these as after market/modified models.

Best,
Z


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## Acme

Zeeebot said:


> Thanks for your reply, Acme.
> Very interesting topic. I haven't seen two different 06s variants use the same box indeed.
> Have you ever get your 06s serviced by Zenith? I wonder if they actually consider these as after market/modified models.
> 
> Best,
> Z


Both my Bolognese EPs are untouched, hardly ever worn "safe-queens". I give them the occasional wrist time, but never had them serviced. I think they are official Zenith products, with proper markings on the caseback and reference numbers unique to the product line. Zenith had a very strong market presence in Italy, countless models are connected to that country. (For example the famed A Cairelli military chronograph, or the DeLuca ElPrimero).

Regards

Acme


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## Zeeebot

Acme said:


> Both my Bolognese EPs are untouched, hardly ever worn "safe-queens". I give them the occasional wrist time, but never had them serviced. I think they are official Zenith products, with proper markings on the caseback and reference numbers unique to the product line. Zenith had a very strong market presence in Italy, countless models are connected to that country. (For example the famed A Cairelli military chronograph, or the DeLuca ElPrimero).
> 
> Regards
> 
> Acme


Hi Acme,
I totally get your point, I’m the owner of a De Luca MK1 
Back then when I just replied to this thread, I was interested to acquire a 06s. I tried to check with Zenith and asked if they can service that model. After the images were sent, radio silence ever since.
Which gave me assumptions that Zenith may think the case are not original from them. As the story of 06s I read, was the goldsmiths were “authorized” to produce the case, not Zenith order the work from them.
Best,
Z


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## Acme

Zeeebot said:


> Hi Acme,
> I totally get your point, I’m the owner of a De Luca MK1
> Back then when I just replied to this thread, I was interested to acquire a 06s. I tried to check with Zenith and asked if they can service that model. After the images were sent, radio silence ever since.
> Which gave me assumptions that Zenith may think the case are not original from them. As the story of 06s I read, was the goldsmiths were “authorized” to produce the case, not Zenith order the work from them.
> Best,
> Z


Alas Zenith customer support is not what it used to be. (I had very good experience with them 10+ years ago, but it is a new era.) Recently I had a service question regarding an A. Cairelli, and they never answered. That is perhaps one of the most iconic Zenith model of all time, still "radio silence" as you put it.
If you like the 06s, I say give it a go. The ElPrimero is not that impossible to service, I have mine done at a local watchmaker, never did go to an AD.

Regards
Acme

PS: "Proud owner of a DeLuca" that is the correct expression


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## Zeeebot

Acme said:


> Alas Zenith customer support is not what it used to be. (I had very good experience with them 10+ years ago, but it is a new era.) Recently I had a service question regarding an A. Cairelli, and they never answered. That is perhaps one of the most iconic Zenith model of all time, still "radio silence" as you put it.
> If you like the 06s, I say give it a go. The ElPrimero is not that impossible to service, I have mine done at a local watchmaker, never did go to an AD.
> 
> Regards
> Acme
> 
> PS: "Proud owner of a DeLuca" that is the correct expression


Totally agree. As I also collecting watches from other brands, what Zenith is doing feels very abnormal to me. Sounds like they are not value their heritage at all.( while they do benefit from the relaunch of their heritage model a lot recently, this is just wired.) I hope they will do some proper training to the team, and improve their service to the level that you experienced 10 years ago.
I’ll go for a 06s (or maybe a few) for sure  Every time I have my eyes on the DeLuca, A Proud Owner to be the exact expression, lol.
Have a nice weekend,
Z


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## Acme

Zeeebot said:


> Totally agree. As I also collecting watches from other brands, what Zenith is doing feels very abnormal to me. Sounds like they are not value their heritage at all.( while they do benefit from the relaunch of their heritage model a lot recently, this is just wired.) I hope they will do some proper training to the team, and improve their service to the level that you experienced 10 years ago.
> I’ll go for a 06s (or maybe a few) for sure  Every time I have my eyes on the DeLuca, A Proud Owner to be the exact expression, lol.
> Have a nice weekend,
> Z


Zenith should improve their support indeed. It is the only thing they need to become a real premium brand. Until that we can buy some undervalued gems from their vast history .

Best Regards

Acme


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## Zeeebot

Acme said:


> Zenith should improve their support indeed. It is the only thing they need to become a real premium brand. Until that we can buy some undervalued gems from their vast history .
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Acme


Support is one thing, but I’m afraid their strategy will not have the focus on embracing their heritage models because of the lack of story telling. And the train is already left, they made up their decision to be a hipster brand already.
Which is good for us to keep hunting those gems at a reasonable price.  Won’t climb crazy like the other hype brands, but at least stable for our money.

Cheers,
Z


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## Marco Ho

Appreciate for all your hard work in doing the research. It's very useful in understanding the Bolognese in depth. I have purchased one myself recently. However, I'm not sure whether it is Gold Plated or solid 18k gold. the reference number is 06.0050.400 and it's got the 750 stamp on the back. Can anyone enlighten me?


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## watchhunterandcollector

Marco Ho said:


> Appreciate for all your hard work in doing the research. It's very useful in understanding the Bolognese in depth. I have purchased one myself recently. However, I'm not sure whether it is Gold Plated or solid 18k gold. the reference number is 06.0050.400 and it's got the 750 stamp on the back. Can anyone enlighten me?


Dear Marco,

Congrats to your purchase! Based on your information I'm sure it's solid 18k gold! I have not seen any 06 references being gold plated (there are similar regular models that are gold plated though, like the Cosmopolitan with reference 20.0023.400). So, if you payed for a gold plated, you must have done a bargain;-) I would really appreciate some images!
Cheers,
Mattias


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## watchhunterandcollector

Sorry for not updating for a while! I have now added three more reference to the original post! We now have 18 unique references!


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## Marco Ho

Hi Mattias,

Thanks for getting back.







Here is the front and back, hope this is solid gold. Furthermore, I would like to know more about the packaging design / original box for the De Luca and Bolognese. Did you do any studies on the packaging by any chance?


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## watchhunterandcollector

Marco Ho said:


> Hi Mattias,
> 
> Thanks for getting back.
> View attachment 16926837
> Here is the front and back, hope this is solid gold. Furthermore, I would like to know more about the packaging design / original box for the De Luca and Bolognese. Did you do any studies on the packaging by any chance?
> View attachment 16926836


Big congrats! It seems to be a wonderful example of one of the few references with a screwed back. I would not swim with it though;-) If you dare to open it, I'm pretty sure you will find a nice caliber 400 there and a 50 BO marking on the inside of the lid. So, case made by a master goldsmith in Bologna in ca 1988.
Thanks for sharing and contributing to this thread!
Cheers


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## watchhunterandcollector

Acme said:


> Excellent work! I wonder if it might be possible to find out exact production numbers? I assume the jewellers involved are still in business?
> Anyway here is my addition to this superb informative thread!
> 
> - It may not be visible in the pictures, but this reference has a beautifully done enamel dial with a slight two-tone treatment!
> 
> View attachment 16318641


Sorry for not checking in for a while! Very nice example of this reference, that this is just the second example I have seen! I did some very non-scientific estimates in an earlier post, but it is on my to-do-list to reach out to the goldsmiths in Bologna. 
Cheers!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Marco Ho said:


> Hi Mattias,
> 
> Thanks for getting back.
> View attachment 16926837
> Here is the front and back, hope this is solid gold. Furthermore, I would like to know more about the packaging design / original box for the De Luca and Bolognese. Did you do any studies on the packaging by any chance?
> View attachment 16926836


I haven't done an extensive survey on the boxes. They seem to have been delivered in the wooden type of box you show, but more often the faux wood and leather one. But I think basically any box with the period correct logotype could have been used!


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## Markod86

hi everyone, 

well done already for listing the Zenith Bolognese, I was looking for some info, I came here by chance, I'm interested in a 06.0210.400 in excellent condition, they sell this for 4930€ with box, can you find it right price?

thank’s


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## Acme

Markod86 said:


> hi everyone,
> 
> well done already for listing the Zenith Bolognese, I was looking for some info, I came here by chance, I'm interested in a 06.0210.400 in excellent condition, they sell this for 4930€ with box, can you find it right price?
> 
> thank’s


Hi Markod86,

Alas we don't do valutions here for several reasons. This particular Bolognese is a more common variant, so with some effort you are likely to find previous listings of it. Top condition and original box will give you the higher numbers in the price-range.
IMHO the Bolognese watches are still rather under-valued, so it is up to you to decide if it is worth that amount to you.
If you buy it eventually, we will be very happy to see some pictures of this beauty!

Regards
Acme


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## Markod86

Acme said:


> Hi Markod86,
> 
> Alas we don't do valutions here for several reasons. This particular Bolognese is a more common variant, so with some effort you are likely to find previous listings of it. Top condition and original box will give you the higher numbers in the price-range.
> IMHO the Bolognese watches are still rather under-valued, so it is up to you to decide if it is worth that amount to you.
> If you buy it eventually, we will be very happy to see some pictures of this beauty!
> 
> Regards
> Acme



thank you for your answer, indeed these are underrated models, maybe people don't consider them a "real" Zenith, I find it beautiful, and I like the rarity, we will not see them not on a lot of wrist


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