# **WITH PICS** JUST PICKED UP AN ORIGINAL 1943 LACO BEOBACHTUNGSUHR



## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

I just picked up an ultra clean B-Uhr. When I saw the original pictures it looked real nice so I decided to bid on it. 
When I received it, the watch looked even better than I expected.
It appears to have never been worn. The holes in the original strap have never had the pin of the buckle go through them. Everything is in amazing condition for 69 years old. (DOB Sept. 02, 1943).
The Lume is all there and intact. The crystal has a couple of scratches to the naked eye. In the photos below they look worse than they really are. It is actually very clear to the eye.
The original finish is all there and looks great. The watch runs, but the only issue I can find is that it is a little stiff when winding and/or when changing the time. Nothing that a good cleaning, lubrication, and regulation of the movement by LACO can't cure.

The story behind the watch is that it was brought to the United States sometime after the war by a soldier who was in the German Army. The seller showed me photographs of the soldiers WWII discharge papers and is sending me an electronic copy of color scans. I believe he obtained these items from the soldiers son or grandson.

This watch is in new unused condition and very well preserved. It was obviously taken good care of for 69 years and never worn, and as you will see below the original matching serial numbered box is still with the watch.

Enjoy the photos...


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## mcotignola (Oct 29, 2011)

Very nice ... Enjoy it!


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## no21 (Jan 8, 2012)

*Re: **WITH PICS** JUST PICKED UP AN ORIGINAL 1943 BEOBACHTUNGSUHR*

impeccable!


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

What a happy camper you are ! Gorgeous time piece. Congrats.


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## MindGame (Nov 2, 2012)

What an awesome find, congrats!


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

|>What a fantastic pick-up! Do right by the watch and pass it down so it can be admired and appreciated for many generations to come. Enjoy it and wear it proudly.


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

Awesome. Do post pictures after its back from LACO.


Sent from my Microwave Popcorn Zapper


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for all nice comments. I plan on holding treasuring for many years and as one person has said, pass it down. I looked for an example of this quality for a while.



fatehbajwa said:


> Awesome. Do post pictures after its back from LACO.


I'm not sure what you mean... When it comes back from LACO it will not look any different than you see in the pictures I've already posted. 
The only work I plan on doing is to have the movement cleaned, lubricated, and regulated.


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## ar10 (Dec 1, 2012)

Congratulations on your find, I think that acquiring a 55mm original can't get any better than this. Would it be possible to share a night shot? I would love to see the old lume in action.


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

ar10 said:


> Congratulations on your find, I think that acquiring a 55mm original can't get any better than this. Would it be possible to share a night shot? I would love to see the old lume in action.


I'm afraid that is something I forgot to mention.

When I placed a bright LED flashlight directly on the Lume in pitch darkness and then quickly removed the flashlight, the Lume only lit for a split second. So I'm afraid it has lost its ability to glow.
I'm going to try it again using bright sunshine and then bring it into the house to a dark room to see if there is any difference. I know the LED works great with modern SuperLuminova. But maybe with the Radium, and it being so old, it might need a strong UV sourse like the Sun to charge it up.

If it works I will be certain to post pics.


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## sci (Aug 6, 2009)

Awesome watch. And the finish looks really like the 2012 model line. Interesting, how they achieve it at that time...


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

Well, the watch is spot on. Congrats!
The Radium lume is as it should be, almost dead. What you see is ow it should be after this time.

How much money changed hands??


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

Janne said:


> Well, the watch is spot on. Congrats!
> The Radium lume is as it should be, almost dead. What you see is ow it should be after this time.
> 
> How much money changed hands??


Thanks.

PM coming your way Jan.


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

sci said:


> Awesome watch. And the finish looks really like the 2012 model line. Interesting, how they achieve it at that time...


Quite simply. They Electro plated the Brass parts with Nickel. The Brass was sandblasted.


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

Spectacular! 

You are one very lucky fellow. I'm not sure that I've ever seen one in such good condition, and if that wasn't enough, that it came with its original packaging is a rarity indeed that only further drives up its value.

What are your ultimate plans for the B-Uhr? I'm not one for owning safe queens and believe that watches were meant to be worn. However, if I had bought this particular B-Uhr I would certainly find myself in a real dilemma. What you have is a museum-grade example, and some part of me screams that it should be preserved as such. In other words, your B-Uhr is too good to be worn. The typical used B-Uhr that you can pick up everyday of the week is certainly something that I would wear, but yours? Like I said it's a dilemma?

Obviously you know to just send the watch head to Laco (and stick everything else in a safe). But I would consider getting more than just a cleaning and lube done. Its lume is radioactive and very old, and will eventually cause you problems. I could live with the radioactivity issue, but the lume will slowly crumble over time and small particles of it will mess up your dial and end up floating around inside the movement, something that will undermine the service it will have received by Laco. Keep in mind too that it's going to get a good jostling around during its return trip to Germany, which will only further strain the old lume. I can only imagine that this watch has spent most of its life stored in a drawer somewhere, but now its going to be handled - quite a bit - so I'd really consider getting the dial and hands re-lumed.

Oh, one last thing. Don't wind it any more (I wouldn't have wound it at all given how long that movement has been sitting unused) until it's been serviced!


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

The stra can not be detached from the head, so everything has to be sent in one piece. 
The Lume and print look to be of a very preserved condition. 
I would leave the dial as it is. A relume of the dial means more or less destruction of the dial.
The hands - I do not know what I personally would do.


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks again guys for all the help and great feedback.

I really don't want to Re-Lume any part of the dial or hands. I purposely looked for an example that I could leave the old lume in place. I love the look of the darkened patina the hands take on over time.

I looped the watch last night. From what I saw everything looks really strong and solid. The only thing I did notice is on the minute hand. You may be able to see it slightly with the naked eye in the pics. There is a thin line running lengthwise down the lume. But it still looks to be quite intact and strong even through the loop. The only other thing is the tail of the second hand. It is missing a little bit of the flat black paint so if and when I send it in I will have them touch that up. Other than that a Cleaning, Lubrication, and Regulating is all I want. I'm even debating that. The reason is that I don't want to take a chance of disturbing any of the lume on the dial or hands during shipping both ways, and also during disassembly and reassembly while being serviced.
So it may just end up staying just the way it is. I'm also thinking about taking it to Sotheby's in Manhattan to have one of their experts give me more advise.

I also sent Diana from LACO a link to this page and she wrote me back and said she was extremely impressed by the watch. She also said she was going to show the pictures to their Watchmaker as she is interested in what he will say about this example.


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## 480/277 (Nov 12, 2012)

Sweet
Enjoy


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## senna89wc12 (Feb 27, 2009)

Great timepiece with history. Enjoy it!


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

***Update:* I received an email from Diana at LACO this morning.

She told me she showed the pictures of the watch to her Watchmaker and he said he is "totally impressed with the condition of the watch". He also said I was to be congratulated on this purchase. He said from what he can see in the photos the movement looks really good, although a cleaning and lubrication should be done, but as far as he could see all the parts look to be original.


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

JSal said:


> Thanks to everyone for all nice comments. I plan on holding treasuring for many years and as one person has said, pass it down. I looked for an example of this quality for a while.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean... When it comes back from LACO it will not look any different than you see in the pictures I've already posted.
> The only work I plan on doing is to have the movement cleaned, lubricated, and regulated.


Wrist shots.

Sent from my Microwave Popcorn Zapper


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

fatehbajwa said:


> Wrist shots.


Ahhhh... Unfortunately I won't be doing any of those... Well at least with the the strap actually buckled.

My reasoning is that from what I can tell this watch was NEVER worn. The holes on the strap are unstretched and the tang has never been put through ANY of the holes.

I can tell as the tang is bigger than any of the holes and would have to be forced through, thus stretching the hole.

I prefer to keep this watch in the condition it has been kept for 69 years. They took wonderful care to preserve this piece of history and I plan on doing the same.

Although I will take a picture with it draped around the sleeve of a leather jacket for effect.


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

The only question I would have is the visual difference between the Bezel + Caseback Vs the case body. The case body seems to look more worn, or probably the Nickel plating is not of the same standard.
Obviously, the caseback has been removed previously ( damage to the Brass is visible on the sellers photos)

The cloth lining show some weird areas, like it has been worn. B ut the leather looks mint.

I need to have a look on my examples at home and compare.


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

Janne said:


> The only question I would have is the visual difference between the Bezel + Caseback Vs the case body. The case body seems to look more worn, or probably the Nickel plating is not of the same standard.
> Obviously, both the bezel/crystal and the caseback has been removed previously ( damage to the Brass is visible on the sellers photos)


The bezel does not appear to have been removed. If it was, then who ever removed it did a good job not to bugger the notch.

The difference in color is not really that apparent with the naked eye. The flash of the camera makes it look that way and also exaggerates the buggered look of the notch for the caseback removal.

Also, on the opposite side (crown side) of the watch the coloring is even and all the same. 
I believe the difference you see on the notched side is from handling and removel of the caseback. There is a big difference in just the pictures that the seller took, and the one that I took of that side of the watch.

The picture of the "Inside" of the caseback I posted was taken by the previous owner which is why there is a drastic color difference with that. I forgot to take that picture and decided it was easier to just use his.

Although I must say you have a good eye for detail Jan. |>


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

I edited my post about the bezel, but you managed to post before I did it.

I am a sucker for detail. We dentists are.


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

That's a good thing especially when doing bridgework.
If I ever move to FL I'll be sure to give you a shout if I need dental work.
The difference between a good dentist and a great dentist can be dramatic.
You sound like a great one, and you're into watches too.


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

Here is an example of what I was talking about. Just look at the difference between these two pictures of the same side of the watch. They don't even look like the same watch to me.
The seller took the one that looks worse. To the naked eye that side of the the watch looks unlike either picture.
The flash of the camera must exaggerate the slight difference in coloring that I believe is from handling on that side.

The first photo is the one the seller took... The second is the one I took of the same side.

Look at what appears to be damage to the finish of the watch in his photo on the side of the case, bezel, case back, and even the lugs... 
I assure you that when looking at the watch with the naked eye that is NOT there and the original finish of the watch is still present. There is a small amount of what looks like handling on just the case and my photo represents that better but it is still much less noticeable in person.


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

The difference in appearence s staggering. Angle, light reflection, colour etc is ( I guess) what makes the difference.

Be prepared that Laco will replace some parts, like the mainspring. Most parts can be replaced, except the central mainplate ( with the jewel in the middle) but it is impossible to redo the finish of the case. 

My recommendation is to give them very detailed instructions. Then they will email you an estimate. Pick and choose.
On mine, they wanted to replace the strap, and restore the dial. I preferred the original.


I wonder how many of us here on WUS have an Original?


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## logan2z (Sep 23, 2012)

One word: WOW! What a find, congratulations.


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## 480/277 (Nov 12, 2012)

JSal said:


> Ahhhh... Unfortunately I won't be doing any of those... Well at least with the the strap actually buckled.
> 
> My reasoning is that from what I can tell this watch was NEVER worn.
> .


Not trying to change anyone's mind. And I can understand you reasoning.
But..... I had a heart attack and flat lined. The three things I thought about in this order my dog, my wife and a twenty year old bottle of Balvenie Portwood scotch I never opened and never tasted.

Everything came from star dust and in time will return to star dust. One day that watch will be elements disassembled. I liken your beautiful watch to Cindy Crawford. I would show her on my arm daily.

And yes the scotch has long been opened!
Jeff


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

480/277 said:


> The three things I thought about in this order my dog, my wife and a twenty year old bottle of Balvenie Portwood scotch I never opened and never tasted.
> 
> And yes the scotch has long been opened!
> Jeff


Good! 
I understand your reservation about your dog, but I truly believe you should make your wife happy!!!


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## watchma (Jul 11, 2012)

Janne said:


> Good!
> I understand your reservation about your dog, but I truly believe you should make your wife happy!!!


She opened the scotch!! :-d

Lovely watch - wear it


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## [email protected] (Mar 27, 2012)

WOW!
that's really a nice LACO!!! enjoy!


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## Quartersawn (Nov 20, 2008)

What a wonderful find! Congrats. :-!

Regarding the lume: I had the tritium hands of my Tudor snowflake stabilized, the watchmaker coated the backside of the hands with a strengthening material to keep the lume from cracking or crumbling. You cannot tell from the front that any work was done on them.


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

Saxon007 said:


> What a wonderful find! Congrats. :-!
> 
> Regarding the lume: I had the tritium hands of my Tudor snowflake stabilized, the watchmaker coated the backside of the hands with a strengthening material to keep the lume from cracking or crumbling. You cannot tell from the front that any work was done on them.


That is a wonderful idea. If and/or when I send mine in to LACO, I will request that be done.

Would you be so kind as to ask your watchmaker what he used ?

Thanks.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Incredible condition the watch is in. To top it off, you have a documented history of the watch with the original boxes! Holy Smokes.


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## dainese (Dec 28, 2012)

Just. Wow.
I literally went mushy inside seeing this proper, artifact. The history, the build, the things that the watch experienced...
Congratulations!.

You are sending to Laco for TLC?


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

dainese said:


> The history, the build, the things that the watch experienced...


yeah, like what it feels like to be in storage for 70 years. I doubt this particular example saw any action at all.


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

Uwe W. said:


> yeah, like what it feels like to be in storage for 70 years. I doubt this particular example saw any action at all.


Oh my God... You crack me up sometimes with your comments. I forget which thread it was or what you said, but you said something that was equally funny and I was at work at the time and I busted out laughing.
Boy did I get some odd looks from co-workers. :-d

P.S. Stop pickin' on the new guys Mister...LOL


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

JSal said:


> P.S. Stop pickin' on the new guys Mister...LOL


Hey, if anything it was a compliment. Pristine examples are far more rare than the battle weary ones.


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

Uwe W. said:


> Hey, if anything it was a compliment. Pristine examples are far more rare than the battle weary ones.


You miss understood my joke... I was referring to how you responded to "dainese" as it was his very FIRST post...

I know... I'm still a new guy at just under 300 posts and just under 6 months as a member.

You come out with some of the funniest stuff sometimes... I remember now what you said that cracked me up last time in the other thread... 
It was the comment about how you would gladly trading all the Russian Movements you could find for Swiss movements he had.
I thought I was gonna die from laughing so hard when I read that.

You're the best Uwe :-!


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

JSal said:


> You miss understood my joke... I was referring to how you responded to "dainese" as it was his very FIRST post...


oh... you're right. :-s However, any guy who calls himself dianese has to have a thick skin - literally - because Dianese makes really good racing leathers.



JSal said:


> the comment about how you would gladly trading all the Russian Movements you could find for Swiss movements he had.
> I thought I was gonna die from laughing so hard when I read that.


Funny, and disappointing, that he didn't take me up on my offer. ;-) There are a lot of outlandish claims made in forums; sure it's great to be enthusiastic about a specific brand or make of movement, but you have to keep things in perspective too. I think deep down he knew that I'd be getting the better of that deal.


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## JSal (Aug 27, 2012)

Uwe W. said:


> Funny, and disappointing, that he didn't take me up on my offer. ;-) There are a lot of outlandish claims made in forums; sure it's great to be enthusiastic about a specific brand or make of movement, but you have to keep things in perspective too. I think deep down he knew that I'd be getting the better of that deal.


Oh yeah... If he did I was gonna ask you if I could get in on that deal and go 50/50 with you...

I was all set to get on eBay and start buying all I could find. LOL !!!


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## dainese (Dec 28, 2012)

Uwe W. said:


> yeah, like what it feels like to be in storage for 70 years. I doubt this particular example saw any action at all.


Oh yeah. This is true.

Didn't even get to see combat. poor thing.


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

hey J

that a useless Piece of Crap.!!!!!!!!
you should Sent it to me. 
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OH MY GOD. can't Believe what i'm seeing.      . i'm Feeling so Dizzy and could use a Drink right now. .! oh Wait . it's 7.00 AM, and Better have Coffee instead.

SORRY , don't know How i missed your Post.!! but Honestly, i'm Speechless.
what a SPECTACULAR WATCH :-! :-! :-!. not only that, but it's in such a Great Condition AND came with it's Original BOX :-! ? 
i'd Wear it and Enjoy the Heck out of it if i were you.!! it's too damn Beautiful to go back to the Box after being Dormant for so many Years. time for Her to Breath some Fresh Air.

i only Hope that they won't Change the Lume on it. unless you start to have some Flaking Problems later on.
MANY CONGRATS on this Ultra Fine Rare Bird.

Cheers


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## Chris-John (Mar 24, 2011)

Incredible find. The fact it has the original box makes it once in a lifetime, or once in many lifetimes. There can't be many with the box around. Personally I wouldn't do anything to it. Too good to wear, so what's the point having it lubed or doing anything. Just leave it be. But each to their own.

With the radium, the whole point of radium is you shouldn't have to charge it up with light, which will achieve nothing. I think they mixed radium with phosphor, and the phosphor will glow for a very very short time if at all. But I thought they used an isotope of radium with a half life of over a thousand years. If the radium is totally dead, I guess that's not true, it must use a short half life isotope. Does anyone know much about that?


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Couldn't find a source confirming the Radium was mixed with phosphor. What I did find was a specification (FL 23885) to use Radium 226. The BO-UK1 was also fitted with Radium 226.

View attachment 1017901


Despite the specifications given by the RLM the dials could look different in detail. The FL 23885 hat 4 different types of dials. However, all have been extremly legible and were running very accurate. Good pics on www.cockpitclock.com.


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## pjw (Mar 5, 2012)

spectacular!


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## Chris-John (Mar 24, 2011)

The word phosphor refers generally to light emitting materials and not just the chemical element. Radioactive materials generally don't necessarily emit light just because they are radioactive. They need a phosphorescent material to excite. In the case of radium dials it was probably silver doped zinc sulfide. Radium 226 having a half life of 1600 years isn't worn out. But apparently the phosphor actually decays. So perversely, the dial won't glow, yet the radium is as dangerous as ever.


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

stuffler said:


> Despite the specifications given by the RLM the dials could look different in detail. The FL 23885 hat 4 different types of dials. However, all have been extremly legible and were running very accurate.


Here's one of my FL23885 bord uhren, a Junghans that needs restoration but is otherwise in good condition:

View attachment 1018334


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

With that sub dial there is some good reason to assume it was made for a Me Bf 109


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