# Chronoswiss - Where do these guys fit in?



## Elmo18

Hi All,

Just acquired my first high-end piece--a Glashutte Original Evo Pano Date, to fill the sport/casual end of the spectrum, and now looking for a dressier piece.

Ran into Chronoswiss, but I don't hear too much of it. Is this high-end, or not?

What brands/realm would they fall under?


Best,
ilham


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## Watchbreath

Yep, high end, they kinda have there're own nitch.


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## chefcook

Entry level to mid level - depends on which model you are looking for. Most stuff in their current line up is ETA based and my experiences with the built quality of Chronoswiss watches are not actually the best. To make things worse their headquarter in GERMANY (!), NOT SWITZERLAND, is royal pain to deal with (arrogant, not very polite, not customer friendly). 
Chronoswiss watches use swiss made parts and then are assembled in Munich, Germany. In my opinion they are no swiss watches. They can state swiss made on their dials because of a law that requires only a certain percentage of something being manufactured in switzerland to call it swiss made. 
They now may have some more complicated watches, but usually those are not 100% in house. Instead they use quite a variety of base movements from old Enicar calibers to very old FEF calibers to modern ETAs.


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## iim7v7im7

Elmo18 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just acquired my first high-end piece--a Glashutte Original Evo Pano Date, to fill the sport/casual end of the spectrum, and now looking for a dressier piece.
> 
> Ran into Chronoswiss, but I don't hear too much of it. Is this high-end, or not?
> 
> What brands/realm would they fall under?
> 
> Best,
> ilham


Ilham,

I would like my perspective as to where this brand fits in and also offer a differing opinion from _chefcook_.

Chronoswiss is unusual among many companies today in that it is a small, independently owned watch company, with consistent leadership for >25 years by a skilled watchmaker
Chronoswiss is known for popularizing the display caseback and regulateur watches
Chronoswiss manufactures only between 4,000-6,000 watches per year so you will not see many out there
In the USA, there are only 8 ADs
Like most small companies, it offers a fairly wide range of watches, many based on modified ETA movement bases (inadequate capitalization to develop in-house capability). Many however have extremely novel movement modifications a reflection of the watchmaker leader of the company, Mr. Lang. Some other models are based on modified movements from defunct manufacturers from the 1950s and 1970s like Marvin and Enicar.
In terms of quality, I have been impressed. For their price point, I believe they offer oustanding quality
In regard to some of the opinions offered, I will offer you mine and you should consider both.

I would not describe the watches as entry level watches. I own many fine watches and I consider the quality of my Chronoswiss to excellent.
I have found the headquarters in Germany, the US distributor and my AD to be nothing but professional and I have not experienced any arrogance in dealing with them. They are a small, customer focused company.
Chronoswiss is indeed headquartered outside of Munich, Germany. Mr. Lang has deep roots in Switzerland and was the head chonograph watchmaker for Heuer before starting his own company in the early 1980s. He has strong ties into the Swiss watch supply chain. He has set up a manufacturing facility in Nidau in Swistzerland, called Chronosa SA. This is where many of the components and movements are manufactured.
The facility in Germany designs, assembles, QC tests and distributes watches. Back in the early 1980s when the company was started and because of Mr. Lang's experience in the Swiss watchmaking industry, placing "Made in Germany" on their watches dial was anathema. Even the name of the company is based on the ideal of Swiss quality.
Today, however "Made in Germany" means excellent watchmaking quality. I would not be surprised if some day they relabel their watches with "Made in Germany" if they produce an in-house caliber.
Implying that Germany cannot make watches on a par with the best in Switzerland is a myth in my view. Perhaps someone should tell A. Lange & Sohne or Glashutte Original about their poor quality?
I hope that helps.

Bob


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## Blue bird

iim7v7im7 said:


> Ilham,
> 
> I would like my perspective as to where this brand fits in and also offer a differing opinion from _chefcook_.
> 
> Chronoswiss is unusual among many companies today in that it is a small, independently owned watch company, with consistent leadership for >25 years by a skilled watchmaker
> Chronoswiss is known for popularizing the display caseback and regulateur watches
> Chronoswiss manufactures only between 4,000-6,000 watches per year so you will not see many out there
> In the USA, there are only 8 ADs
> Like most small companies, it offers a fairly wide range of watches, many based on modified ETA movement bases (inadequate capitalization to develop in-house capability). Many however have extremely novel movement modifications a reflection of the watchmaker leader of the company, Mr. Lang. Some other models are based on modified movements from defunct manufacturers from the 1950s and 1970s like Marvin and Enicar.
> In terms of quality, I have been impressed. For their price point, I believe they offer oustanding quality
> In regard to some of the opinions offered, I will offer you mine and you should consider both.
> 
> I would not describe the watches as entry level watches. I own many fine watches and I consider the quality of my Chronoswiss to excellent.
> I have found the headquarters in Germany, the US distributor and my AD to be nothing but professional and I have not experienced any arrogance in dealing with them. They are a small, customer focused company.
> Chronoswiss is indeed headquartered outside of Munich, Germany. Mr. Lang has deep roots in Switzerland and was the head chonograph watchmaker for Heuer before starting his own company in the early 1980s. He has strong ties into the Swiss watch supply chain. He has set up a manufacturing facility in Nidau in Swistzerland, called Chronosa SA. This is where many of the components and movements are manufactured.
> The facility in Germany designs, assembles, QC tests and distributes watches. Back in the early 1980s when the company was started and because of Mr. Lang's experience in the Swiss watchmaking industry, placing "Made in Germany" on their watches dial was anathema. Even the name of the company is based on the ideal of Swiss quality.
> Today, however "Made in Germany" means excellent watchmaking quality. I would not be surprised if some day they relabel their watches with "Made in Germany" if they produce an in-house caliber.
> Implying that Germany cannot make watches on a par with the best in Switzerland is a myth in my view. Perhaps someone should tell A. Lange & Sohne or Glashutte Original about their poor quality?
> I hope that helps.
> 
> Bob


X2. There is nothing wrong with German watches. The OP's GO is a classic example. In my experience, German watch companies have always had excellent customer relations. I've never owned a Chronoswiss but if they're anything like GO or even Stowa then they must be excellent.


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## wasteoftime

Chronoswiss Waste of time


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## iim7v7im7

Elmo18 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just acquired my first high-end piece--a Glashutte Original Evo Pano Date, to fill the sport/casual end of the spectrum, and now looking for a dressier piece.
> 
> Ran into Chronoswiss, but I don't hear too much of it. Is this high-end, or not?
> 
> What brands/realm would they fall under?
> 
> Best,
> ilham


Ilham,

Here is another way to describe where Chronoswiss fits from a price perspective. The plot below is a box plot of many popular brands pricing based on watches listed in the Wristwatch Annual 2011.









I stratified the brands into four quartiles based on mean price of the watches listed:

Tier 1 <$7,400
Tier 2 <$17,800
Tier 3 < $37,800
Tier 4 > $37,800
Chronoswiss falls into Tier 2 based on a median price of $9,900. As reference, GO had a median price of $14,000, Omega $8,650, Panerai $12,900, Rolex $10,875 and Zenith $11,900. So from a pricing perspective, they are certainly not an "entry level" brand. The US prices range from $3,800 (Stainless, Kairos) to a $47,600 (White Gold, Sign of the Times). In general, from a pricing perspective, the more a brand is populated by precious metal watches the farther to the left (on the box plot) it lies. This is a key difference between tier 3 and tier 4 companies.



Bob


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## Tyrtle

I would class Chronoswiss as entry high end. While all of their pieces are low volume, in relative terms they have some higher volume lines like the Kairos' that are based on ETA movements. They also have lower volume lines or limited run pieces. Examples include their Digiteurs and repeaters. These pieces stack up well against anything more highly marketed "high end" brands offer.

The simple truth is that most people, including many self proclaimed WIS's, know little to nothing about Chronoswiss. However, those who have carefully looked at the company and its pieces think very, very highly of them.

As for the Swiss versus German debate, I would take a German Chronoswiss Repeater over a Swiss Quartz PP Calatrava or a Swiss Quartz JLC Reverso any day. But the more brand conscious may feel otherwise =)


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## iim7v7im7

Just to follow up on Tytle's comments which I agree with.

While many Chronoswiss watches are based on ETA 2892-A2, 7750, 2000-1 automatic calibers and ETA 6497-1 and 7001 base movements; many of which are significantly modified by Chronoswiss (new function modules, skeletonizing etc.).

They also offer 11 watches based on unique movement bases (not in-house, but exclusive). Gerd Lang bought up a number of base calibers from defunct swiss watch manufacturers in the 1980s. The movements are from the 1950s and the 1970s but are significantly reworked by Chronoswiss.

4 Manual winds (Marvin 700 and STT base calibers):

Sirius
Regulateur 24
Regulateur a' Tourbillon
Regulateur a' Tourbillon Squalette
7 Automatics (Enicar 165 base calibers)

Chronoscope
Delphis
Perpetual Calendar
Regulateur Automatique
Regulateur Medium
Regulateur a' Quarts
Tora
For an independent company of its modest size, this is an impressive offering of unique mechanical movements IMO.



Bob


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## Watchbreath

Plus, the smoothest running 7750 I ever checked out was in an Opus.


iim7v7im7 said:


> Just to follow up on Tytle's comments which I agree with.
> 
> While many Chronoswiss watches are based on ETA 2892-A2, 7750, 2000-1 automatic calibers and ETA 6497-1 and 7001 base movements; many of which are significantly modified by Chronoswiss (new function modules, skeletonizing etc.).
> 
> They also offer 11 watches based on unique movement bases (not in-house, but exclusive). Gerd Lang bought up a number of base calibers from defunct swiss watch manufacturers in the 1980s. The movements are from the 1950s and the 1970s but are significantly reworked by Chronoswiss.
> 
> 4 Manual winds (Marvin 700 and STT base calibers):
> 
> Sirius
> Regulateur 24
> Regulateur a' Tourbillon
> Regulateur a' Tourbillon Squalette
> 7 Automatics (Enicar 165 base calibers)
> 
> Chronoscope
> Delphis
> Perpetual Calendar
> Regulateur Automatique
> Regulateur Medium
> Regulateur a' Quarts
> Tora
> For an independent company of its modest size, this is an impressive offering of unique mechanical movements IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> Bob


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## TAG You're It

Semi off topic but since there seem to be a few people here with some Chronoswiss knowledge, I was hoping someone would be able to provide me with an answer to a question. Is there a way I would be able to tell when my Regulateur was produced? 

More on topic, I am extremely happy with the watch and love the look/quality of it |>


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## iim7v7im7

Not off hand...Why not e-mail Chronoswiss or Chronoswiss North America with your serial number? They can tell you.





TAG You're It said:


> Semi off topic but since there seem to be a few people here with some Chronoswiss knowledge, I was hoping someone would be able to provide me with an answer to a question. Is there a way I would be able to tell when my Regulateur was produced?
> 
> More on topic, I am extremely happy with the watch and love the look/quality of it |>


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## Elmo18

Bob et al. ,

Thank you for the great posts. I am intrigued, obviously, by the numerous higher end watch brands. The Glashutte Original is a spectacular watch so far (Sport Evo Pano Date). I would almost always want to pick up the GO over the Sub No Date, except that I have the silver dial version, so that the Sub No Date would not be out of rotation :-d Quality-wise, it looks and feels much better than the Sub No Date, although time will tell regarding the longevity of the Caliber 39 movement. I have heard great things about this movement, so I am hopeful.

Currently, watches with manufacture movements catch my eye, and while Chronoswiss does not seem to manufacture their own, I do like that they rework and use older movements as you mention above.

I am also concerned with value. For example, what other brands offer better, or equal value in terms of dressier pieces? I do not mean Rolex, Omega, Baume etc, but other smaller manufacturers.


Many Thanks,

Ilham


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## iim7v7im7

Ilham,

Value in luxury watches can differ depending on what is important to you. Some watch manufacturers who I feel offer excellent designs, manufacturing quality for their price point in stainless steel dress watches are (alphabetically):

_Blancpain_ (Villeret Ulta Slim)
_Chopard_ (L.U.C. Classic and 1937)
_Chronoswiss _(Sirius and Regulateur 24)
_D. Dornbluth & Sohn_ (99.2 and 99.4)
_Glashutte Original_ (Senator Sixties and Panomatic Lunar)
_Grand Seiko_ (SBGW001, SBGH013, SGBGR061)
_Jaeger-LeCoultre_ (Master Grande Ultra Thin, Reserve de Marche, Grande Reverso 976)
_Nomos Glashutte_ (Orion and Zurich)
_Zenith _(Elite Captain or Ultra Thin)
Personally, I feel value lies in stainless steel models. Once you dive into precious metals, much of the value gets confounded with precious metal pricing. I know you didn't want to look at large volume producers but _Rolex _Datejusts and _Omega_ DeVille Hour Vision are both nice dress watches as well!

Good Luck,

Bob



Elmo18 said:


> Bob et al. ,
> 
> Thank you for the great posts. I am intrigued, obviously, by the numerous higher end watch brands. The Glashutte Original is a spectacular watch so far (Sport Evo Pano Date). I would almost always want to pick up the GO over the Sub No Date, except that I have the silver dial version, so that the Sub No Date would not be out of rotation :-d Quality-wise, it looks and feels much better than the Sub No Date, although time will tell regarding the longevity of the Caliber 39 movement. I have heard great things about this movement, so I am hopeful.
> 
> Currently, watches with manufacture movements catch my eye, and while Chronoswiss does not seem to manufacture their own, I do like that they rework and use older movements as you mention above.
> 
> I am also concerned with value. For example, what other brands offer better, or equal value in terms of dressier pieces? I do not mean Rolex, Omega, Baume etc, but other smaller manufacturers.
> 
> Many Thanks,
> 
> Ilham


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## Tyrtle

I agree with Bob's list and would add Maurice Lacroix's Masterpiece line.

A careful shopper can find some amazing deals on the ML Masterpieces, whether you are looking for manufacture movements or interesting heritage movements.

--Tyrtle



iim7v7im7 said:


> Ilham,
> 
> Value in luxury watches can differ depending on what is important to you. Some watch manufacturers who I feel offer excellent designs, manufacturing quality for their price point in stainless steel dress watches are (alphabetically):
> 
> _Blancpain_ (Villeret Ulta Slim)
> _Chopard_ (L.U.C. Classic and 1937)
> _Chronoswiss _(Sirius and Regulateur 24)
> _D. Dornbluth & Sohn_ (99.2 and 99.4)
> _Glashutte Original_ (Senator Sixties and Panomatic Lunar)
> _Grand Seiko_ (SBGW001, SBGH013, SGBGR061)
> _Jaeger-LeCoultre_ (Master Grande Ultra Thin, Reserve de Marche, Grande Reverso 976)
> _Nomos Glashutte_ (Orion and Zurich)
> _Zenith _(Elite Captain or Ultra Thin)
> Personally, I feel value lies in stainless steel models. Once you dive into precious metals, much of the value gets confounded with precious metal pricing. I know you didn't want to look at large volume producers but _Rolex _Datejusts and _Omega_ DeVille Hour Vision are both nice dress watches as well!
> 
> Good Luck,
> 
> Bob


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## aznseank

i have a chronoswiss triple calendar lunar. (the older version of sirius) The watch is not as well known as IWC. It looks okay. It has a rather poor power reserve (it is NOT 48hours! More like 28!). The details are amazing. Its a good bang for your buck but has a rather low resale value. All in all, I would not recommend this watch. Save your money and get something like JLC. I am trying to trade my chronoswiss for an IWC 3714-17. Oh if anyone wants to trade, PM me =) I willing to offer cash + watch for the IWC.


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## TeutonicCarFan

^ good luck on finding a Portuguese chrono, they are great watches. I love my IWC.


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## Elmo18

Thanks all.

Still seriously thinking about what is the next high-end....taking my time on this one.


Best,
ilham


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## Tyrtle

"Still seriously thinking about what is the next high-end...."


Yeah, aren't we all :-d


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## Elmo18

The Chronoswiss Sirius is growing on me......what do i do!?!?! Aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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## iim7v7im7

Go to a Chronoswiss AD and try one on. I actually did not like it as much in person as I did in photos. It is a nice manual wind watch.



Elmo18 said:


> The Chronoswiss Sirius is growing on me......what do i do!?!?! Aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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## Elmo18

Hi Bob,

I think I will today. I am not sure if they carry Chronoswiss, but they do carry Glashutte, so I am hopeful. I sold an Omega 3570.50 Speedy to make room for a dress watch.

Best,
ilham



iim7v7im7 said:


> Go to a Chronoswiss AD and try one on. I actually did not like it as much in person as I did in photos. It is a nice manual wind watch.


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## Spit161

They are like Bremont - a brand in a niche, that will, in time, grow and grow.
That is what it needs - time.

cheers.


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## Elmo18

I have not gone to the AD yet, but as I was browsing their site, they do not mention any Chronoswiss, so I am doubtful.

For those who have tried the Sirius, is it really 7.7mm tall? THat is really rather thin...which is a good thing for a dress watch, in my opinion.


Best,
ilham


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## iim7v7im7

Ilham,

Yes it is that thin. Remember that there is no rotor in amanual wind watch so it can be quite thin. Here is a side shot of my regulateur which has a similar movement:









Here is a rear view of the movement as well.









Good Luck,

Bob



Elmo18 said:


> I have not gone to the AD yet, but as I was browsing their site, they do not mention any Chronoswiss, so I am doubtful.
> 
> For those who have tried the Sirius, is it really 7.7mm tall? THat is really rather thin...which is a good thing for a dress watch, in my opinion.
> 
> Best,
> ilham


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## ajack

I've been in love with Chronoswiss since the first time I saw 3 models of it in luxury department store! They're really gorgeous!

What do you think about Chronoswiss Opus? I believe Opus is very famous among Skeleton watches. I'm still looking for one...


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## Glennr

Hi, I just purchased my first Chronoswiss, a CH 2833 Timemaster. The quality and fit/finish are excellent. There is a lot of attention paid to making the movement look attractive and the styling is something you will love or hate. I have a reasonably big wrist at 7 3/4" and the watch looks extremely well balanced. The Onion crown is very comfortable and I would happily rate it on a par with the quality of a similar entry priced high end watches and you get a relatively rare watch that stands out. I'll upload some pics tonight.


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## flyingpicasso

Glennr said:


> Hi, I just purchased my first Chronoswiss, a CH 2833 Timemaster. The quality and fit/finish are excellent. There is a lot of attention paid to making the movement look attractive and the styling is something you will love or hate. I have a reasonably big wrist at 7 3/4" and the watch looks extremely well balanced. The Onion crown is very comfortable and I would happily rate it on a par with the quality of a similar entry priced high end watches and you get a relatively rare watch that stands out. I'll upload some pics tonight.


Looking forward to the pics!


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## iim7v7im7

Congratulations on your new watch. I also look forward to see your images.



Bob



Glennr said:


> Hi, I just purchased my first Chronoswiss, a CH 2833 Timemaster. The quality and fit/finish are excellent. There is a lot of attention paid to making the movement look attractive and the styling is something you will love or hate. I have a reasonably big wrist at 7 3/4" and the watch looks extremely well balanced. The Onion crown is very comfortable and I would happily rate it on a par with the quality of a similar entry priced high end watches and you get a relatively rare watch that stands out. I'll upload some pics tonight.


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## GWGeorge

Glennr, 

I have had my Timemaster for some time now ,great watch. I went with the left hand version because I didnt want the crown digging into my hand. I wear the watch on my left wrist and it looks like I have a stop watch on.
Hope you enjoy . Its a beaut! Post some pic already!


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## chicagonine

dial = 4/10 
case back 3/10 (non engrave) 
case finish = 8/10
movement 10/10 - i know ETA modified 
accuracy : 9/10
value 6/10

Overall rate: below avg., they dot even states the country of origin in the watch.


owner of Opus SR


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## iim7v7im7

I am a bit confused by your comments? Can you expand a bit?



chicagonine said:


> dial = 4/10
> case back 3/10 (non engrave)
> case finish = 8/10
> movement 10/10 - i know ETA modified
> accuracy : 9/10
> value 6/10
> 
> Overall rate: below avg., they dot even states the country of origin in the watch.
> 
> owner of Opus SR


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## mattsam

I've been looking at a used Tora Chronoswiss at a pawn shop for the last year. He wants $1400 with a nice aftermarket alligator strap that is too long for me. No box no papers. He offered to put a nice sea snake band off a Stowa watch he has. Guy is reputable I purchased my ebel from him. His stowa is also nice.
Is $1400 about market price??
Matt


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## iim7v7im7

mattsam said:


> I've been looking at a used Tora Chronoswiss at a pawn shop for the last year. He wants $1400 with a nice aftermarket alligator strap that is too long for me. No box no papers. He offered to put a nice sea snake band off a Stowa watch he has. Guy is reputable I purchased my ebel from him. His stowa is also nice.
> Is $1400 about market price??
> Matt


It's difficult to say based on the information provided. I assume it is model CH 1323 in stainless steel correct? What condition is the watch in? Does it have a box and papers? Has it ever been serviced by Chronoswiss?? A new Chronoswiss alligator band goes for ~$280 without a buckle. So keep that in mind if you're thinking of replacing it. All of these factors can influence the selling price.


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## almeladze

Blue bird said:


> X2. There is nothing wrong with German watches. The OP's GO is a classic example. In my experience, German watch companies have always had excellent customer relations. I've never owned a Chronoswiss but if they're anything like GO or even Stowa then they must be excellent.


If Italians can make watches, then Germans can certainly do so!


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## Chronocase

I have an Opus and I believe it to be one of the very best looking skeleton watches of its type. The size is just right at 38mm which is perfect for a skeleton watch. The detailing is simply quite amazing and it just oozes quality especially with the Chronoswiss metal bracelet. Exceptional value for money for such a beautiful piece.


ajack said:


> I've been in love with Chronoswiss since the first time I saw 3 models of it in luxury department store! They're really gorgeous!
> 
> What do you think about Chronoswiss Opus? I believe Opus is very famous among Skeleton watches. I'm still looking for one...


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## Chronocase

A couple of pics which hardly do justice.














Chronocase said:


> I have an Opus and I believe it to be one of the very best looking skeleton watches of its type. The size is just right at 38mm which is perfect for a skeleton watch. The detailing is simply quite amazing and it just oozes quality especially with the Chronoswiss metal bracelet. Exceptional value for money for such a beautiful piece.


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## Orbeman

iim7v7im7 said:


> Ilham,
> 
> I would like my perspective as to where this brand fits in and also offer a differing opinion from _chefcook_.
> 
> Chronoswiss is unusual among many companies today in that it is a small, independently owned watch company, with consistent leadership for >25 years by a skilled watchmaker
> Chronoswiss is known for popularizing the display caseback and regulateur watches
> Chronoswiss manufactures only between 4,000-6,000 watches per year so you will not see many out there
> In the USA, there are only 8 ADs
> Like most small companies, it offers a fairly wide range of watches, many based on modified ETA movement bases (inadequate capitalization to develop in-house capability). Many however have extremely novel movement modifications a reflection of the watchmaker leader of the company, Mr. Lang. Some other models are based on modified movements from defunct manufacturers from the 1950s and 1970s like Marvin and Enicar.
> In terms of quality, I have been impressed. For their price point, I believe they offer oustanding quality
> In regard to some of the opinions offered, I will offer you mine and you should consider both.
> 
> I would not describe the watches as entry level watches. I own many fine watches and I consider the quality of my Chronoswiss to excellent.
> I have found the headquarters in Germany, the US distributor and my AD to be nothing but professional and I have not experienced any arrogance in dealing with them. They are a small, customer focused company.
> Chronoswiss is indeed headquartered outside of Munich, Germany. Mr. Lang has deep roots in Switzerland and was the head chonograph watchmaker for Heuer before starting his own company in the early 1980s. He has strong ties into the Swiss watch supply chain. He has set up a manufacturing facility in Nidau in Swistzerland, called Chronosa SA. This is where many of the components and movements are manufactured.
> The facility in Germany designs, assembles, QC tests and distributes watches. Back in the early 1980s when the company was started and because of Mr. Lang's experience in the Swiss watchmaking industry, placing "Made in Germany" on their watches dial was anathema. Even the name of the company is based on the ideal of Swiss quality.
> Today, however "Made in Germany" means excellent watchmaking quality. I would not be surprised if some day they relabel their watches with "Made in Germany" if they produce an in-house caliber.
> Implying that Germany cannot make watches on a par with the best in Switzerland is a myth in my view. Perhaps someone should tell A. Lange & Sohne or Glashutte Original about their poor quality?
> I hope that helps.
> 
> Bob


Necrobump ...

spot on ... I would like to add Nomos to the list of GREAT German watchmakers


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## Manchuri

You can tell it is Halloween, zombies are appearing


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## Chicharito

some chronoswiss models are attractively priced/relatively affordable for the type of complication you are getting. case in point being their quarter repeaters.


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