# TAG Quartz movement comments



## Kawika (May 26, 2009)

I subscribe to a blog written by a watchmaker about his observations in day to day work.

This arrived today:
On multiple occasions recently I had problems with mid-range watches that failed when they shouldn't. Both of these examples were Tag Heuer wristwatches. At some point in the last couple of years Tag Heuer began using much lower quality movements in their watches. They can't be saving more than $10 per watch but the end result is lower quality.

The movement above is the ETA F03.111. It has 3 Jewels and lots of plastic, including complete wheels and pivots in the gear train (it's what I would expect from a low end Seiko or a Timex). Don't get me wrong. Plastic isn't bad but it evokes poor quality and the rest of the movement follows. I would never service one of these movements, it would simply get replaced. So how much do you have to pay for one of these gems? This particular watch is a steel & plated gold model with a diamond bezel and diamond dial which is listed for $4100 retail but can be obtained at Amazon







for just $2,660.00. The value of the movement is less than half of a percent of the market price and less than a quarter percent of the full retail price. In contrast the value of a Rolex movement represents around 1/3 of the cost of a comparably priced model.
This watch came to me for a power cell and a water resistance test, which I performed, but then the setting lever broke and I had to replace that as well. The quality of the ETA F series just isn't good enough to be used in any watch that costs more than a few hundred dollars and Tag Heuer should be ashamed of using them in this watches. Spend a few more dollars and use a good quality quartz movement that will stand up to customer use. The F03.111 is a part of ETA's Trendline which they describe as "economical movements for mass produced watches." In contrast ETA's Flatline watches which include the 256.xxx movement is described as "flat, reliable, numerous functions, high performances." Which would you rather have in your watch? Some Tag Heuer chronograph's now have movements from ETA's Fashionline, also described as "economical movements for mass produced watches." I guess that settles it, Tag Heuer is a fashion watch.
In this case . . . you don't get what you pay for, you get much less.

I have an Aquaracer quartz with that mentioned movement, and although I've know since I purchased the watch that is wasn't one of the high quality ETA movements (seriously, watch supply houses sell that "F" series movement for well under $20, and less if you buy 3 or more), it's a tad discouraging to learn just how cheap the movement really is. And to step up to the next grade of movement is really, as mentioned, only about $15 more per movement retail...and who knows how much cheaper when you're TAG and are buying them in bulk.

I still enjoy my TAG Aquaracer...this is just information.


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## decipher28 (May 2, 2010)

I agree with the blog written by the watchmaker



i've too noticed this trend that tag heuer seem to be going in over the years, using cheaper and cheaper movements.And i must say i don't really think its a good idea.They market themselves as a luxury sportwatch brand and yet have watches with $20 movements in them.I know other parts make up the cost of the watch like case,crystal,bezel,band etc.

But to be using cheaper and cheaper movements which will wear out or brake down sooner can only harm their reputation.

I do not see any problem with there higher end watches which use very very good quality movements.


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

You'd be surprised how cheaply large brands can get movements - automatic and quartz.

Do you think autos cost hundreds of dollars to mega brands? Well, you are mistaken.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

I have seen no evidence that the failure rate on fashion-line movements is higher than on flatline movements. 

The difference I have seen is there is no possibility of repair on fashion-line movements, only replacement.


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## wdrazek (Feb 7, 2008)

It's sad that a $4K diamond studded Tag would be powered by the same low grade movement used in a $100 fashion watch. This is the kind of thing that helps perpetuate negative perceptions of Tag in the WIS community.


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## Drez (May 17, 2008)

That's sadly part of the difference between boutique brands and brands like Tag, Omega, Rolex etc. Price difference is is your money is going into advertising and convincing people like you that they want one. That and putting watches on Tiger, Matt, Brad, Cindy etc. 

I agree its much harder to justify $$$ particularly in higher end quartz watches unless they're putting better features or a lot of fit and finish into them. Esp when Japan quartz has so much to offer. As far as Tag goes at least their chronotimer movement is a higher end piece...oh wait their discontinuing that. 

I'm actually really disappointed that watches like the Aquaracer, Seamaster, Colt quartz lines aren't all standard with perpetual calendars.


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

wdrazek said:


> It's sad that a $4K diamond studded Tag would be powered by the same low grade movement used in a $100 fashion watch. This is the kind of thing that helps perpetuate negative perceptions of Tag in the WIS community.


Who cares? WISses are <1% of their target market, probably not even that. Like TAG could care less.

Anyone who thinks a mass-produced, serviceable ETA 255 in service is significantly superior to a mass-produced, serviceable F0x is deluding themselves. The 255 has more jewels where no jewels are needed. Not for no reason has the 955 range (also 7 jewels) been discontinued in favour of the F0x and their are no 255s available outside of SwatchCo unless you're Breitling and you pay through the nose for something thermocompensated.

The 80x is the unserviceable range. Both F0x and 25x ranges suffer from being much cheaper to replace than service because labour rates are so high in the West (and increasingly elsewhere). It's even cheaper to replace a basic ETA 2824 with a new one than service it, in many places. Does that suddenly make it "replaceable"?

The blogowner has an anti-TAG problem of the kind you see all over the place amongst early WISdom (but not "wisdom").


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## Watchyman (Mar 4, 2010)

publandlord said:


> Who cares? WISses are <1% of their target market, probably not even that. Like TAG could care less.
> 
> Anyone who thinks a mass-produced, serviceable ETA 255 in service is significantly superior to a mass-produced, serviceable F0x is deluding themselves. The 255 has more jewels where no jewels are needed. Not for no reason has the 955 range (also 7 jewels) been discontinued in favour of the F0x and their are no 255s available outside of SwatchCo unless you're Breitling and you pay through the nose for something thermocompensated.
> 
> ...


I disagree, if all the movements are the same, why are there different grades?
Why flatline, thermoline, trendline if they are all the same?
A big bucks watch should come with a good quality movement, but this is not just Tag's thing, Omega being a part of the Swatchgroup doesn't use the better quartz movements (the Thermolines), only Breitling does. Every single watch that Breitling makes is a chronometer, and in order for a quartz module to be COSC certifies it has to be very, very good.
But in defense of TAG, i think that they are now using RONDA movements, i assume that the movement in their new big date chronos is one of them because of the dial layout.
So, to the OP, if you want a really nice high end swiss watch with kick ass quartz modules look for a Breitling.
It would be really nice if TAG could buy precisionist movements from Citizen for their quartz models, then you'd have high accuracy and sweep seconds hands.
SWEET! :-!


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## wdrazek (Feb 7, 2008)

publandlord said:


> Who cares? WISses are <1% of their target market, probably not even that. Like TAG could care less.
> 
> ...Not for no reason has the 955 range (also 7 jewels) been discontinued in favour of the F0x and their are no 255s available outside of SwatchCo unless you're Breitling and you pay through the nose for something thermocompensated.


Well, I for one do care. Breitling has thermocomp quartz watches starting around $2k. Meanwhile, Tag is putting low end movements in diamond crusted watches that cost as much as $4k+. That ain't right.


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## TimemindeR (Jun 29, 2010)

wdrazek said:


> Well, I for one do care. Breitling has thermocomp quartz watches starting around $2k. Meanwhile, Tag is putting low end movements in diamond crusted watches that cost as much as $4k+. That ain't right.


They are just trying to make affordable gemstone watches. Your not paying 4k for a watch with an amazing movement your paying 4k for diamonds and materials, movement is like $40. If TAG made a diamond encrusted watch with a high end quartz movement the price would be too high for their target consumer.


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## enricodepaoli (Feb 24, 2008)

I personally like the fact that the movements inside TAG Heuer watches are either easy to repair or to replace, yet it is still a high class watch. Hate to do the car analogy again, but I am more comfortable with my Mercedes maintenance than I'd be with a Bentley.


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## kori (Dec 12, 2010)

I have Tag Heuer Aquaracer with ETA 251.262 quartz movement. Is this movement good and is it appropriate for a watch that is priced almost 2000 dollars? Thank you for your answer(s)!


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## Benjamin Chin (May 11, 2008)

It's like putting up a Leica outer case for the camera but using cheap mechanism inside. What a shame !


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## Carrera 3 (Nov 9, 2008)

My wife's Tag Heuer Aquaracer Quartz failed to work (just stopped) just after 2 years 3 months before the second hand battery low indicator was activated...Out of warranty...So AUD$40 for the movement and $150 for the major service and some new gaskets. Guess what?...every new movement comes with a battery. So I think the movement should cost less that AUD $40...even less what the actual cost is. So I was glad it didn't cost an arm and a leg.

My Crocodile and Swatch quartz fashion watches (They have survived uncountable knocks) were still ticking for over 15 years and I've replaced my own batteries on those...I've never pressured and water tested them and swam with them. Still ticking till today.

So, I wasn't surprised if they were cheap and low grade movements. They were definitely not worth what it was supposed to be..I'd looked to Tissots, Seikos or Citizens, Fossils or even Swatches if you wanted a reasonably priced Quartz..

As for me, after realizing the quality of Tag's Quartz..If I ever wanted another Tag, It'll definitely be one of their automatics.

Some may argue that the exterior are all high quality parts (dial, finish, case etc etc) but I don't think Tag should compromise using low quality quartz movements because I when I buy a Tag, I would expect a long lasting high quality overall watch for the price charged. It just takes away the integrity of the brand.

Good business sense and model I suppose from TH's point of view..Higher margin...less maintenance issues and cost(just replace them)...high profitability in the event of high volume....and most who buys these quartz (no offense to those..I didn't initially) are less savvy in terms of what's inside it...so no complains.


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## eosdigital (Dec 1, 2010)

Does this also apply to the current Formula 1 men collection? Particularly the WAH1111.

The lineup is one of my personal favorite and it's really a bummer to find out that they're using the cheap ETA movement :-(


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

all three hand quartz movements are cheap. some break, most don't.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Wisconsin Proud said:


> all three hand quartz movements are cheap. some break, most don't.


Oh come on... the Eta Flatline movements are quite well made, genuine evolutionary products of Swiss mechanical technology. Indeed one could argue they are overmade given the minuscule side loading of stepper motors. But that makes them pretty indestructible if the casing holds its protection.

Now the Fashion Line movements and most of the Japanese and all of the Chinese quartz movements are indeed cheap.


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## bmwfreak (Jun 7, 2008)

kori said:


> I have Tag Heuer Aquaracer with ETA 251.262 quartz movement. Is this movement good and is it appropriate for a watch that is priced almost 2000 dollars? Thank you for your answer(s)!


The 251.262 is considered a high end quartz chronograph movement. 27 jewel movement under the Flatline model line. ETA makes only one higher grade quartz chronograph movement (251.233) which is thermo compensated as used by Breitling (calibre 73).


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## enricodepaoli (Feb 24, 2008)

I don't get all the negative buzz because TAG has some watches with quartz movements. MOST ladies watches of any brand have quartz movements inside. And they can be VERY expensive.


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## CLEANS-HIGH (Feb 26, 2009)

the Eta 251.262 is a very good movement and I have it in my $700 Swiss Army, whether it should be in a $2000 Tag is a decision for the buyer but it is a good movement and I believe it is top of the line or close to top


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## nakedjohnny (Nov 21, 2009)

is your swiss army watch - chrono classic?


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## cqcumber (Oct 15, 2009)

what movements r in F1 chronograph and chrono grand date line?


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## Grantdownunder (Oct 21, 2008)

Website lists the Grande Date movement as Ronda 6004B. Pity it doesn't list the chrono movement though it looks awfully similar to the 261.252.


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## kyotousa (Oct 2, 2010)

Eeeb said:


> Oh come on... the Eta Flatline movements are quite well made, genuine evolutionary products of Swiss mechanical technology. Indeed one could argue they are overmade given the minuscule side loading of stepper motors. But that makes them pretty indestructible if the casing holds its protection.
> 
> Now the Fashion Line movements and most of the Japanese and all of the Chinese quartz movements are indeed cheap.


 what? are you implying Swiss Quartz are better? lol


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

kyotousa said:


> what? are you implying Swiss Quartz are better? lol


Even a cheap Chinese stamped metal quartz movement has a good chance of keeping just as good a time as an ETA Flatline... but they are not as well made. Even Seiko quartz movements are not as well made. Take 'em apart. Look at 'em. You will agree I suspect.


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## dustoncross (Sep 13, 2006)

Grantdownunder said:


> Website lists the Grande Date movement as Ronda 6004B. Pity it doesn't list the chrono movement though it looks awfully similar to the 261.252.


I believe it's an ETA G10.211


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## accuracy (Mar 9, 2009)

Okay, so I bought a TAG Aquaracer Quartz (model WAB1112.BA0801) nearly two years ago to replace the Rolex I sold because it was up to the NYC Rolex Service Center too often for my patience. How can I find out which movement is inside? I don't want to open it up, but I am curious if it is a cheap movement.

BTW I'm very happy with the watch and it keeps very good time, unlike the Rolex which needed to be demagnetized too often for my patience. When it was returned to me for the last time after about ten days and a few replacement parts, I decided to sell it while it was still within the two year warranty.


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## cdnbear (Jun 10, 2009)

That watch uses a ETA F06.111 movement which would cost about $20 to replace from OFREI.


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## accuracy (Mar 9, 2009)

cdnbear said:


> That watch uses a ETA F06.111 movement which would cost about $20 to replace from OFREI.


Well that's disappointing, but what is the range of prices for a quartz movement? Is $20 the price of a good movement or a cheap movement? :-s


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

accuracy said:


> Well that's disappointing, but what is the range of prices for a quartz movement? Is $20 the price of a good movement or a cheap movement? :-s


Quartz movements are priced by 2 criteria: Those that are out of production are priced by demand. For example, old Heuer quartz movements sell for more than ever... Those that are in production are generally priced by volume and quality. $5-10 is cheap... chronos can get to $100. The actual ETA F06.111 sells for about $30 quantity one and is jeweled (3). I'd say it was a middle level movement.

Movements can be compared to engines in that both represent only a small percentage to the total price of the car. Fancy dials can cost more than movements.


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## Benjamin Chin (May 11, 2008)

Any comment about the quartz movement of WAF1014.BA0822 ?


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## enricodepaoli (Feb 24, 2008)

It's a common mistake to judge a car by its engine alone, and a watch by its movement. With a minimum understanding of the swiss watch industry, one can realize that an ETA movement that costs reasonably little is a workhorse, and is a "plus" for the watch, not a drawback.

Of course there are quite fancy movements out there as well...


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## Grantdownunder (Oct 21, 2008)

It's a pity people automatically label something that is inexpensive as being of poor quality. Good engineering isn't always expensive, in fact the best engineering tends to be the simpliest and therefore less expensive. The real issue should be the accuracy and longevity of the movement. If it costs $20 and ticks on for fifty years then I say 'you beauty!' And when it does give out, slap another $20 movement in it!|>


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Grantdownunder said:


> It's a pity people automatically label something that is inexpensive as being of poor quality. Good engineering isn't always expensive, in fact the best engineering tends to be the simpliest and therefore less expensive. The real issue should be the accuracy and longevity of the movement. If it costs $20 and ticks on for fifty years then I say 'you beauty!' And when it does give out, slap another $20 movement in it!|>


Spoken like someone who knows about technology! For example, the ETA 2892-A2 used in a number of TAG watches is probably one of the best mechanical movements ever made even though you can buy it by the thousands and at a fraction of the cost of a Patek movement. Indeed, some of the major quality jumps in horology were the result of low enough cost per unit that you could actually concentrate on quality.

KISS - the mark of an artisan


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## Carrera 3 (Nov 9, 2008)

Great to know that it's realible and cost effective. But Tag's Quartz line of watches are considerably more expensive that the likes of Tissots, Wengers and Swiss Army for the cost of movement. The gap between the cost of the movement and the price of the watch is even wider compare to Seikos Kinetics and Citizen Eco Drives (Require no batteries). 

I don't have alot of knowledge of quartz movements but if it was just as simple as slapping on another movement without the need of a watchmaker that charges labour cost, fees such as service charges, gasket charges and what have you, I'm happy with that. However in reality, the true cost of the repair if it fails is enough for one to buy the above mentioned brands. 

If it wasn't because it was my wife's daily wear and she loved the watch..A couple of hundred bucks to see my happy wife is worthwhile. If it was left to me..I would have just cut my losses left it as a bad buy...

Still love the TAG brand though. Gave up IWC...Aiming for a Monaco and a Rolex Date just next..


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

Carrera 3 said:


> . But Tag's Quartz line of watches are considerably more expensive that the likes of Tissots, Wengers and Swiss Army for the cost of movement.


What you say is true but you need to stop thinking actual costs of an individual model versus a brand's product placement. TAG wishes to place its brand above Tissot and Swiss Army by offering a more costly *product line*.

Also, understand that TAG does *alot more R&D* for watches than both of those brands combined. Part of the cost of a $2000 quartz watch pays for TAG to develop the V4 Monaco, pendulum, Calibre S, 1887, etc. This is what I mean by brand placement - all models contribute to the image of TAG Heuer. There is no way the sales of the Monaco V4 would entirely cover the cost of developing that movement considering they started working on it in 2004.

Some will say they don't care about the R&D of new movements, they just want a reasonably priced watch. Then, the good news is there are brands like Swiss Army and Tissot that filled that void very well. TAG has become known for innovation and moving forward. The other brands, not so much. Everyone has a choice, buy a watch as a timing piece alone or getting something that you have a connection with to a company brand and philosophy. Neither is right or wrong, but being on one side and complaining about the other does you no good.


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## pcar964 (Mar 4, 2009)

So, does anybody know what sort of quality the Calibre S movement is?


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## Carrera 3 (Nov 9, 2008)

Wisconsin Proud said:


> What you say is true but you need to stop thinking actual costs of an individual model versus a brand's product placement. TAG wishes to place its brand above Tissot and Swiss Army by offering a more costly *product line*.
> 
> Also, understand that TAG does *alot more R&D* for watches than both of those brands combined. Part of the cost of a $2000 quartz watch pays for TAG to develop the V4 Monaco, pendulum, Calibre S, 1887, etc. This is what I mean by brand placement - all models contribute to the image of TAG Heuer. There is no way the sales of the Monaco V4 would entirely cover the cost of developing that movement considering they started working on it in 2004.
> 
> Some will say they don't care about the R&D of new movements, they just want a reasonably priced watch. Then, the good news is there are brands like Swiss Army and Tissot that filled that void very well. TAG has become known for innovation and moving forward. The other brands, not so much. Everyone has a choice, buy a watch as a timing piece alone or getting something that you have a connection with to a company brand and philosophy. Neither is right or wrong, but being on one side and complaining about the other does you no good.


I totally agreed with you in terms of product placement and hence if I was looking for a Quartz I'd be looking at a Tissot or a Swiss Army..I wouldn't discount the Seiko Kinetics and the Citizen Eco Drives. This thread has made me understand that..Great strategy if I may say from TH perspective but from my perpective..Should have know that and picked others for a Quartz..

Do I feel proud now having a TAG label on my Quartz more than a Swiss Army - model to model (after knowing)? Not me personally but I believe most do so.

Again love the TAG automatics...They can use the contribution from my Automatics to the V4s and other research.

Complaining? not really...Enlightened? yes...Option?...Will not buy TAG Quartz...or any kind of high end brand Quartz


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## BruceS (Feb 11, 2006)

All I know is that my 1500 series has been ticking away since the mid 90's. I wore it everyday for quite awhile and even made some dives with it. Honestly, back then I bought it because I liked the way it looked. I didn't know Tag Heuer from anything back then either. I liked it and could afford it so I bought it. It pretty much sat around unused since about 2000 until now, but I have no complaints. 

Cheers,
Bruce


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

Carrera 3 said:


> I totally agreed with you in terms of product placement and hence if I was looking for a Quartz I'd be looking at a Tissot or a Swiss Army..I wouldn't discount the Seiko Kinetics and the Citizen Eco Drives. This thread has made me understand that..Great strategy if I may say from TH perspective but from my perpective..Should have know that and picked others for a Quartz..
> 
> Do I feel proud now having a TAG label on my Quartz more than a Swiss Army - model to model (after knowing)? Not me personally but I believe most do so.
> 
> ...


You have to remember, with any luxury item you pay for intangibles.

Why does the same sunroof cost more in a Cadillac than a Chevy? Why are labor rates higher for Lincoln compared to Ford?

Part of it is the understanding that customers in luxury markets have the extra disposable income and are willing to pay to be in this tier and don't have to rationalize what something costs.

By moving into this range of brands, TAG is leaving some cost conscious customers behing hoping to make up for it with a new customer base. Or, in the case of collectors and those in this hobby that will still buy TAG Heuer watches, we are forced to buy fewer items that have higher price tags.


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## CLEANS-HIGH (Feb 26, 2009)

I have the ETA 251.262 in my Swiss Army Chrono Classic XLS very nice watch


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## CLEANS-HIGH (Feb 26, 2009)

if you like having the Tag name on the watch then buy it, it may be worth it to some, but for me I will stick with my Swiss Army or Seikos, Bulovas,etc many may
say that Seiko quartz movements are inferior to Swiss Quartz but I have had no trouble with Seiko movements and I can not say the same for some of the Swiss ones and to me that's the ultimate sign of quality. Tag does make some nice watches though


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## Benjamin Chin (May 11, 2008)

Any comment about the RONDA 6004.B movement quality ?


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## Benjamin Chin (May 11, 2008)

Benjamin Chin said:


> Any comment about the RONDA 6004.B movement quality ?


Nevermind, I found the answer I wanted.


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## pcar964 (Mar 4, 2009)

So, still nobody has any idea about the quality of the Calibre S movement? Anyone? Is it a standard, cheap disposable quartz movement like discussed earlier in the thread, or is it a high quality in-house movement as implied by Tag's description?


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## calibre 11 (Jan 2, 2007)

pcar964 said:


> So, still nobody has any idea about the quality of the Calibre S movement? Anyone? Is it a standard, cheap disposable quartz movement like discussed earlier in the thread, or is it a high quality in-house movement as implied by Tag's description?


The Calibre S is definitely a more complex movement than the typical quartz ETA fare, with mechanical components to go along with all of the usual electronics. Is it "in-house"? Yes (certainly believe it was designed by TAG Heuer, but not sure where its assembled). Is it "high-quality"? I haven't seen anything that suggests that it isn't, but others who have the watch can comment


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## Kajuku (Dec 8, 2012)

I have the Aquaracer Quartz 500m (WAJ1110). What movement does it use? A fellow user in another post suggested that it utilizes a Ronda Mastertech 6003.B, but I thought that this movement was used only in the Grand Date Aquaracers. So, does this watch uses this movement, or something else;


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## bmwfreak (Jun 7, 2008)

Kajuku said:


> I have the Aquaracer Quartz 500m (WAJ1110). What movement does it use? A fellow user in another post suggested that it utilizes a Ronda Mastertech 6003.B, but I thought that this movement was used only in the Grand Date Aquaracers. So, does this watch uses this movement, or something else;


Most likely a ETA F06, but only way to know for certain is to open it up. Tag does use both ETA and Ronda as suppliers.


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## Harteless (May 2, 2013)

Benjamin Chin said:


> Nevermind, I found the answer I wanted.


What did you find out on this movement for Ronda? I have the same in my watch. 
Thanks


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