# Bronze Watch Guide Pt. 1 — Lessons in Alloys and Aging



## wgarbo

So, what do we think of Stowa's MO bronze, claiming it's been "cured" if you will, where additional patina won't happen.


----------



## Jordan77429

Love the bronze watches and own 5 of them! Each one is so unique


----------



## StufflerMike

wgarbo said:


> So, what do we think of Stowa's MO bronze, claiming it's been "cured" if you will, where additional patina won't happen.


Well, Jörg wished for a bronze case which has a worn-in look (not too dark brown, or polished bronze) but does not oxidize any further. After the treatment applied by Stowa, it turned out to be a perfect warm brushed bronze with a slightly dark hue. Being a warm dark bronze, the case could be used in several combinations of dials, hands, and straps. More info/discussion on our Official Jörg Schauer & Stowa Watches Forum.


----------



## JustinMFrost

wgarbo said:


> So, what do we think of Stowa's MO bronze, claiming it's been "cured" if you will, where additional patina won't happen.


To each his own, but personally taking the character out of the bronze in that sense isn't for me. Much of the love of the material is in its fluidity. That said, It's a good looking piece and will appeal to those who like it as-is.


----------



## drw50

Live bronze and black


----------



## Paceng59

I'm of the mindset that bronze is going to be a fad that folks remember us by and make fun of us for in 20 years


----------



## JustinMFrost

Paceng59 said:


> I'm of the mindset that bronze is going to be a fad that folks remember us by and make fun of us for in 20 years


Well, maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. Unlike other design fads, bronze cases aren't as outlandish in the sense that they're being made in traditional/conventional designs often alongside steel counterparts. From a design perspective when we're talking about a materials choice it is less likely to see it fall that far out of favor. It has been, is, and will continue to be a niche offering rather than a 'mainstream' one. IMHO.


----------



## capitalEU

Unfortunately, some of us are allergic to bronze  I love the bronze color, it gives an industrial look to the watches.


----------



## basculante

Fantastic!


----------



## JustinMFrost

basculante said:


> Fantastic!


Thanks! Part two should be coming in a week or so.


----------



## mt_timepieces

Bronze watches are very cool. Had few tudors BBB over the years, they all age with excellent patina and so unique.


----------



## watchman67

Great article. I had a bronze and flipped it quickly. I miss it. I may go back.


----------



## ekeyte

Very informative. I just got a Tudor BB Bronze and it seems like it developed a pretty nice patina even for being so new. I wondered how quickly that happened. Looks like within a year you can see big results.


----------



## JustinMFrost

watchman67 said:


> Great article. I had a bronze and flipped it quickly. I miss it. I may go back.


Thank you! Part 2 is in the works as we speak


----------



## JustinMFrost

ekeyte said:


> Very informative. I just got a Tudor BB Bronze and it seems like it developed a pretty nice patina even for being so new. I wondered how quickly that happened. Looks like within a year you can see big results.


IT really varies depending on the watch. I have a Graham that has been aging super quickly. Will be a part of "part 2" of this story.


----------



## ekeyte

JustinMFrost said:


> IT really varies depending on the watch. I have a Graham that has been aging super quickly. Will be a part of "part 2" of this story.


Can't wait!


----------



## alweisenberger

I "force patina" my bronze watch by traveling to tropical places and snorkeling with it  bad for gaskets, good for color


----------



## Quielo

My bronze Glycine is the only watch I've bought twice. I gave the first one to a relative when he bought a nice boat. He wears nothing else now. I missed it so I bought another exactly the same, 42mm combat.


----------



## Peter z

Jordan77429 said:


> Love the bronze watches and own 5 of them! Each one is so unique


Which is your favorite?


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## Jordan77429

Probably my Zelos Abyss 2


----------



## huntfortime

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


I would think the bronze would age well based on how much you would wear it


----------



## JustinMFrost

huntfortime said:


> I would think the bronze would age well based on how much you would wear it


This is very much variable depending on the alloy composition, the climate you live in, and even your body chemistry. I have some pieces that I've let age on their own that took forever to show any significant shift (The Halios Seaforth Bronze, for example). It's all a matter of personal preference, really.


----------



## cameltoejockey

How durable is a bronze watch versus the stainless? Looking at H2O. The bronze patina reminds me of my Navy days.


----------



## JustinMFrost

cameltoejockey said:


> How durable is a bronze watch versus the stainless? Looking at H2O. The bronze patina reminds me of my Navy days.


It is definitely softer than stainless in the grand scheme of things, but unless you're really abusive you won't really notice a tangible difference. Also, the look of a bronze watch with some age on it has a more 'used' feel, the odd scratch or ding is less of an eyesore (at least for me it is).


----------



## cameltoejockey

Thank you for the reply. JustinMFrost


----------



## JustinMFrost

cameltoejockey said:


> Thank you for the reply. JustinMFrost


You're welcome. As a point of reference, here's the big bronze Zodiac of mine, and a look at a dent I managed to put in the case. This is the result of a significant drop, I want to say about 4-feet, where it bounced of the edge of a piece of wooden furniture... Can't recall if it was the bed frame or a coffee table. Thankful to report that it still runs perfectly fine since this incident


----------



## ibowers2

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


I love the warm look of bronze, but how a watch will patina is my concern. To know you can clean, or remove, patina is great, but to not know if the finish will be affected is a risk that's not exciting. I think I'll wait to see how some of these bronze watches look like on the resale market in about 5 years. Do we know if watch manufactures test the patina/age affect for long term?


----------



## Uriquep

Will salt water accelerate patina?


----------



## JustinMFrost

Uriquep said:


> Will salt water accelerate patina?


Yes it can, not significantly/dramatically, but it can. Wearing your watch in the ocean and then letting it air dry, or even replicating that process with saltwater at home.


----------



## bornintheussr

I was researching for cheapest bronze watch on the market, turned out Invicta (hate this brand) got one for about $100


----------



## -Greg-

I have a bit different question, although could not find a place to ask. I love the bronze watches and I even pulled of wearing it every single day, but the biggest issue is the green tone left on the wrist. On my watch, Cobra Crossfire, stainless steel cover on the back is not wide/big enough to secure skin from the bronze parts. Once skin touches the bronze, I have a green skin (not allergic, just color that can be washed off) and it is very annoying. How do you deal with that? I am even thinking to take the watch and plate the back side, but that is one very painful process (at least for me)


----------



## dtquarles

A conundrum


----------



## cvanpelt14

Thanks for this just started looking into bronze watches, and this was super informative! Looking forward to the next installments.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## BtBaMrocks

Fantastic write up.


----------



## SanJose?Walt1

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the  Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


Thanks for the very informative article. I have a modest watch collection, mostly SS with a couple of Ti. I've just ordered my first bronze (Christopher Ward) and awaiting its arrival. Very excited to see how it patinates and compliments my others. I'll post some follow on comments in the near future.


----------



## ArchiMark

Nice character and unique look to the watches...

Curious as to whether bronze watches are generally heavier than other watches?


----------



## JustinMFrost

SanJose?Walt1 said:


> Thanks for the very informative article. I have a modest watch collection, mostly SS with a couple of Ti. I've just ordered my first bronze (Christopher Ward) and awaiting its arrival. Very excited to see how it patinates and compliments my others. I'll post some follow on comments in the near future.


Congrats! Let us know when it lands.


----------



## JustinMFrost

ArchiMark said:


> Nice character and unique look to the watches...
> 
> Curious as to whether bronze watches are generally heavier than other watches?


A fair question! Yes, Bronze and brass are heavier than steel, so these watches do pack a bit more weight. They aren't as heavy as solid gold, but somewhere in between.


----------



## RationalPragmatist

Here's my Black Bronze; left is new in 2016 and right is present day.


----------



## JustinMFrost

RationalPragmatist said:


> Here's my Black Bronze; left is new in 2016 and right is present day.
> View attachment 15621031


Wow, that's a pretty impressive shift. Daily wear? What sort of climate do you live in?


----------



## RationalPragmatist

JustinMFrost said:


> Wow, that's a pretty impressive shift. Daily wear? What sort of climate do you live in?


Not daily wear but in the rotation; I live in a very high humidity climate. It is quite a shift and more noticeable when looking at the back of the watch with the PVD coated steel caseback.


----------



## jay77jay5

Love the look of industrial look of bronze so had to add one to the collection. Just bought my first semi-bronze watch (a Helberg CH6 with SS body and bronze bezel, bronze crown and bronze buckle) and hope to receive it in the next month or two.
Out of interest, does anyone know what type of bronze is used in these watches?


----------



## The Sacred Crafts

We made a Patina Guide for our customers. All of these will happen with exposure to seawater (surf, dive, fish, sail) over time or they can be forced with some kitchen level chemistry. The only one below that was forced is the far right one - "Davey Jones." (1. Salt water >> 2. Sulfur bag). What's great about it is with a simple ketchup scrub bath it all goes back to the "Admiral" finish!

These finishes are all offered as part of our customer experience for our La Grande Mer Collection of 500 Limited Edition watches.


----------



## Grampyfish

What about the bronze coated steel watches? Not every manufacturer clarifies what is solid and what is plated.


----------



## NatiLad79

Nice looking watch


----------



## razzaah

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.





JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


Interesting Article. Thanks


----------



## dputydwg

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


Thanks for this.


----------



## yellowfury

Other than the stowa are there any bronze watches that are “set” or won’t have much patina over time? I know I’m in the minority but I love the color of new bronze watches and I’m not a fan of the green patina. Are there any options for people like me who want a consistent look over time without removing patina or is that just a fact of bronze watch life?


----------



## arg0n

Nice write up.

Here are 3 of mine

Yema - fresh
Seaforth - getting there...
Tropik - fully darkened










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Charliejadk

Thank you for this informative information OP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Elmero

Very interesting topic! Oddly, I cannot find part 2 of the series... can you kindly point me to it?

Cheers!


----------



## yadel

Very informative. Thank you. I am eagerly waiting to receive my first bronze watch . I have gathered alot of watches in my collection, bronze was not in my radar till Zelos introduced bronze Swordfish with bonze bracelet. Will be interesting to see how that bracelet will look after sometime.


----------



## mrk

wgarbo said:


> So, what do we think of Stowa's MO bronze, claiming it's been "cured" if you will, where additional patina won't happen.


I don't think it is fully cured, just cured enough to stop air based oxidisation any further. I say this because I messaged Stowa recently and was told that the manual process to get the aged look is one thing, but depending on the type of liquid the case comes in contact with may well result in further patination over time. So to me that sounds like it's not locked in and fully cured of any further oxidisation, it just won't change by air alone and would still need to come into contact with salt water regularly to further patinate.

This is fine by me. I sometimes wash myw athes under the tap to clean them and my Baltic Bronze never patinated form tap water and some soap alone (that was Aluminium alloy) and I'd bet that the Stowa will fare the same as I like the out of the box look of their CuSn8 finishing.


----------



## Cju777

Thanks for the great article Justin. I have an Oris Big Crown bronze/bronze dial on the way. Look forward to posting photos


----------



## Rolexplorer

Wow. I never knew any of this about Bronze watches. Thanks for the research and post. Always great to learn technical material.
I had never before considered owning Bronze, but now my eyes are opened.


----------



## DSS

I bought my first bronze watch--a Borealis Oceanaut--a month ago. I received it from a private seller looking like this (pic 1)... and cleaned it up to look like this (pic 2)... * A good trick I learned: toothpaste makes a great cleaner*--very mildly abrasive, lets you decide, as you go, how far back to new you want to bring it.

My watch looks like this now (pic 3). I love the organic, living nature of this material. It creates a constantly evolving relationship with the watch.


----------



## EclipseSilver

Never seen bronze on a watch before, very interesting, would really be a cool piece to hand down to someone with the natural patina


----------



## swsc

it's so interesting how this metal changes over time. Some patina really well, and some look a little too crazy with the green. I really like watch companies experimenting with new materials. Very creative! Good for the hobby and for the brands.


----------



## Sana Ullah

One month patina


----------



## Pjerome

I have several Bronze watches (Armida, Steinhart,Panerai) but I think my most beautiful match is my Glycine Airman. The brown dial and gold hands just all work with the natural patina . Occasionally I use WENOL to polish it but sometimes only the bezel just to bring out the numerals. Just a great watch all around with 3 time zone capability.24 hour military time at a glance, & locking bezel...When it's in POLISHED mode it looks very much like Rose Gold because this watch has more Copper.


----------



## Caracal

Excellent write-up! This makes it a lot simpler to decide between a couple I was looking at.. Turns out the one I was leaning towards is probably going to be what I need, so that's pretty cool.


----------



## Stchambe

Great write-up!


----------



## MotownStan

Nice write-up, now I know I want the Aluminum alloy


----------



## B.Kohr

We have some 1930s era machinery, made in bronze, which is a very cool alloy. Barely a patina to it, but a kind of "glow". We do have notes that, at the time, it was considered hard, and prone to chip, so it had to be milled very slowly. I think they are a monel bronze.


----------



## Nyumii

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


Is there a way to ceramically coat the bronze to freeze it at a specific patina?


----------



## ekeyte

Nyumii said:


> Is there a way to ceramically coat the bronze to freeze it at a specific patina?


I have to pile on here, I'd love to know. I sold a Black Bay Bronze about a month ago with the most perfect satin patina and would have loved to have kept it like that.


----------



## bhoffman28

Thanks for the amazing write up! I am a big fan of bronze myself!


----------



## f1tothe50

Good read!


----------



## justinloos88

Bronze watches are amazing looking. There definitely a bucket list watch.


----------



## Willbrink

RationalPragmatist said:


> Not daily wear but in the rotation; I live in a very high humidity climate. It is quite a shift and more noticeable when looking at the back of the watch with the PVD coated steel caseback.
> View attachment 15621103


This thread has been helpful in deciding on whether to get that exact watch. I have it in stainless and it's a favorite. I like the bronze look, really don't like what it becomes at all, so that ends my interest. Unless I could really preserve the new bronze look of that Tudor, the aged look is terrible looking to my eyes. If I read correctly, it looks like some semi regular cleaning will maintain the newer bronze look, but seems a losing battle. Oh well.


----------



## leonbeast

cool


----------



## Chiane

Willbrink said:


> This thread has been helpful in deciding on whether to get that exact watch. I have it in stainless and it's a favorite. I like the bronze look, really don't like what it becomes at all, so that ends my interest. Unless I could really preserve the new bronze look of that Tudor, the aged look is terrible looking to my eyes. If I read correctly, it looks like some semi regular cleaning will maintain the newer bronze look, but seems a losing battle. Oh well.


I’m in the same boat. Eyeing that Oris propilot big crown, but I like it clean and new. Not sure I want an endless project.


----------



## JoeShmoe414

I just picked up a Zelos Swordfish full bronze with bronze bracelet. I like the patina look but am considering doing a reset on it. Do you guys have any suggestions on the best method? Have been searching for a step by step but cant seem to find one.


----------



## JoeShmoe414

I reset my bronze watch I bought used excited to see it take charter in my wrist!


----------



## evvyou

the bronze mostly coated on? anyone knows?


----------



## BundyBear

evvyou said:


> the bronze mostly coated on? anyone knows?


No, bronze is bronze. The whole case would be made in bronze. I have not come across a coating type.


----------



## evvyou

BundyBear said:


> No, bronze is bronze. The whole case would be made in bronze. I have not come across a coating type.


that is good to know. thank you


----------



## Roley720

Beautiful piece


----------



## Silverspoon09

Bronze watches are cool, but I really wish more companies would do bronze braclets with the watches. I think that is my favorite part of my zelos Swordfish. Watching the braclet take on life is even more entertaining then the watch head itself.


----------



## stonecastle

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


 Thank you very much for the informational piece. I do own a Tudor BBB and wasn’t positive which category the bronze fell in, but over the 3-4 years I have had it , the patina has definitely darkened the bronze. It is sometimes a conversation piece between other watch lovers, who want to see the patina and how it has changed. Doubt I will be selling anytime soon… 😄


----------



## kope007

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


I've been on the fence about acquiring a bronze watch, but I am sold now. I'll be busy for the next month finding the right one, lol. Thanks for the article.


----------



## alpaslan

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


Thanks for the informative article. Highly appreciated.


----------



## KM_AB

Thanks for the info.


----------



## kissdb

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


Extra informative! Thanks!


----------



## misterbb

Thank you for this guide


----------



## GrundyB

Love the look of a bronze watch.


----------



## KRONO TIMEPIECES

Bronze is a great look and definitely trending again, especially with green. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Capi777

JustinMFrost said:


> Bronze watches are more prevalent now than they've ever been, to a point that I'd argue that there's more bronze than platinum available in the watch market at present day. The appeal is simple. To some, it's nothing more than a colorful alternative to steel, titanium, or DLC. To others, it's the idea of a watch that's constantly evolving, whose character is designed to change over time. Beyond that, there's the 'sciencing appeal' (no, sciencing isn't a word, but you get where I'm going with it). Having the ability the ability to force patination of the metal through different means is what draws some to collect bronze watches, myself included. Through this process, this experimentation, this 'oops I went too far now how do I bring it back' adventure I've been on, I've learned a great deal about the variations of the alloy-how they react, and their individual quirks.
> 
> With this experience in mind, the thoughts behind this series is really about sharing the life lessons that have come out of an ever-changing bronze watch collection. If you're contemplating adding a bronze watch or three to the collection, there are plenty of things to consider, so with each instalment of this series we will be covering different bases, covering everything from more general information, to lessons in cleaning, forced patina, and the risks involved in any sort of watch tampering. For today, let's kick things off with 'the basics'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Not All Bronze Is Created Equal*
> 
> Even by just taking a quick look at the different bronze watches on offer today, you'll quickly realize that bronze is by no means as consistent as steel or gold. On one end of the spectrum, watches like the Tudor Black Bay Bronze, the Halios Seaforth B , the Yema Superman , and last year's IWC Spitfire Chronograph in bronze have a distinctly yellowish hue that adopts a more muted grey coloring as it ages. Oppositely, bronze offerings from Oris , Zelos , Meistersinger , and others are much more warm and rosy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The differences, as you'd expect, come down to chemistry and composition. Bronze is an alloy, primarily made up of copper, but what fills the rest of the alloy can vary substantially all while still falling under the umbrella nomenclature of bronze. Bronze can be called such so long as it's composed primarily of Copper and has at least a small portion of tin (and other metals), but as metallurgy has evolved, what makes up the balance of the composition has varied. Based on available information, typically two basic variations of bronze are used in watchmaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It remains a bit of a frustration that many brands don't disclose which bronze type they've chosen when they post spec sheets. Once you're more familiar with the material it's not rocket science to detect, but to those less familiar, a little information could come in handy. After all, if you've been enamored with the Black Bay Bronze, and ended up buying an Oris Carl Brashear, the end results of your patina journey are going to be painfully different after months/years of wear. This all might seem a bit basic to some of you, but before we dig into the experience of living with bronze, we want to make sure that everyone is equipped with some good baseline knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Aluminum Bronze*
> 
> Aluminum bronze watches make up the first half of our examples in the paragraph above-those yellowy grey cases that patina in a more understated manner. Aluminum bronze is frequently used in marine applications, and is generally more corrosion resistant. This also means that it is slower to patina, as I've learned with both the Halios Seaforth and Yema Supermarine. The addition of between 9 and 12% aluminum, and 6% iron and nickel means less copper in the alloy, which is what leads to the cooler and more yellow hue of these cases. By and large, these pieces are better suited to those wanting to let their watch age naturally, and we've seen some great examples in our forums and elsewhere across the web.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CuSn/Phosphor Bronze*
> 
> Though there is still some variance in CuSn Bronze, the basics are simple. They're copper-heavy, with the balance of elements being comprised of Tin, Phosphorus, and other elements. Tin can range between around 6 to 8% (often seen as CuSn6 or CuSn8), whereas Phosphorus is less than 1% of composition. you'll still get some color variation in these cases from one to the next, but generally speaking it's easy to single them out in comparison to Aluminum Bronze. By comparison, these cases take quite well to forced patina, regardless of method, but the results can vary dramatically from case to case. You'll see more warmth come out in its color as it darkens, and occasionally even some peculiar textures will begin to appear in the metal.
> 
> *Frequently Asked Questions*
> 
> Between myself and about a dozen other patina geeks, I've compiled some basic questions that are most often thrown around to those who have been dabbling in bronze watch collecting through the last half decade or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is Patina Reversible?*
> 
> The best way to answer this question is by saying yes, but. We'll cover an entire instalment on the cleaning process at a later date to clarify this further, but at a basic level you can remove patina from a bronze watch case. Where the 'but' becomes applicable is when it comes to case finishing. Depending on how heavy the patina is, surface treatment and soft cloths won't necessarily cut it, and if you're talking about a polished case, turning back fully isn't really an option. That said, sometimes the aesthetics of the reversal can be really interesting. My Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 68 Bronze has gone to the dark side and back on several occasions, and at present its color is close to original, with an interesting texture to it that wasn't initially apparent in its original microblasted finish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Can Forcing Patina Damage My Watch?*
> 
> This is another loaded question, and the unfortunate answer is yes, sometimes it can. As a rule of thumb, I would never force patina on something without a screw-down crown, and even with a screw down crown, it is possible to go overboard. Just recently (on a watch that shall remain nameless) I subjected a piece to repeated long sessions of vinegar fuming which included temperature shifting as well (placing the sealed container with watch/fumes into a hot water bath to create vapor condensation). After several weeks of this, with intermittent pauses to rinse off the case, condensation was detected under the watch crystal. As it stands the watch is with my watchmaker to uncover which gasket failed and how, but this is exactly the kind of risk we run with these experiments.
> 
> That said, having patina naturally occur on bronze usually does not, and will not cause damage to a watch (case or otherwise). Patina on bronze is surface oxidization, and it (at a basic level) is creating an outer layer on the surface on the metal rather than eating away. It's not the equivalent of a rusting body panel on a car. Even when at the point of this greenish dust forming, this is still a matter of the surface of the material rather than something to panic about. If you let your watch age gracefully, you shan't be worried. If you get overzealous as I did, you might have to spend a couple hundred bucks with your watchmaker to fix your own foolishness.
> 
> There is one last note to be made here that especially applies to the affordables space. We have seen some cases where the specific bronze alloys used some manufacturers (Makara and Maranez have been culpable of this) is a bit more prone to corrosion, and some owners have seen pitting occur in the metal itself. It's rare, but it has happened.
> 
> *How Long Does Patina Take?*
> 
> This is a question that is immensely variable depending on everything from how much you wear your watch, to what climate you live in, to the type of bronze used on the case. Phosphor bronze does age quicker, without a doubt, with some pieces starting to show signs of aging within the first couple of days of wear. Aluminum bronze on the other hand can take weeks to start to shift, and is much more subtle as noted above. As a point of reference, have a look at the images below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Halios Seaforth and Zelos Swordfish were both acquired at the end of October, 2019. The second image was taken on June 24th 2020. They've seen close to the same amount of wear in the same environment, but the aluminum bronze of the Halios has been taking its sweet time to age (both naturally.


I like bronze watches, and I've had several, but in the end, I always sell them, but if I buy a bronze blue helios, I think I'll keep that one.


----------



## parsig9

Looks like Heimdallr uses the aluminum bronze too.


----------



## MrBlonde

Paceng59 said:


> I'm of the mindset that bronze is going to be a fad that folks remember us by and make fun of us for in 20 years


Bronze watches have been around since the start of… well… watches. I think it’s safe to say that the material’s popularity will rise and fall but I don’t see it ever being considered a “fad”.


----------

