# H-50 vs 2801 caliber...



## Verydark (Mar 19, 2006)

That's the question, i like the new power reserve but i'm not really sure about reliability, which one would you choose and why?


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

I have an H-10 and an H-30 movement, and both movements have an 80-hour power reserve and very accurate. I would go with the H-50 and the newer technology that has been incorporated into the movement over the 2801-2 movement. You may also want to refer to the following link with respect to the H-50's accuracy.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f357/hamilton-khaki-field-mechanical-white-dial-review-4968301.html


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

I've got both and the H50 is far and away the most accurate. 
In terms of winding there is noticeably less resistance in winding the H50 - I read somewhere that it has a longer, thinner mainspring which could explain this but other than that I can't really see any difference in performance.
The white dial doesn't come with the ETA 2800 calibre but had a nice aesthetic to it whilst I believe that the ETA 2800 version would be easier to get serviced locally if required but that doesn't bother me too much at the price point.
Which way are you thinking of going?









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## Stromboli (Mar 26, 2010)

NC_Hager626 said:


> I have an H-10 and an H-30 movement, and both movements have an 80-hour power reserve and very accurate. I would go with the H-50 and the newer technology that has been incorporated into the movement over the 2801-2 movement. You may also want to refer to the following link with respect to the H-50's accuracy.
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f357/hamilton-khaki-field-mechanical-white-dial-review-4968301.html


In your opinion would the newer technology have a higher cost for repairs? Just asking so I can make an educated decision as to what I'm looking for.


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## NC_Hager626 (Sep 20, 2018)

Tthe new technology that Swatch Group has incorporated into their 80 and 60-hour movements are patent, and outside of the Swatch Group little is known about the composition of these new materials let alone their availability in the marketplace. Therefore, it is my opinion, that when it comes time to have your watch serviced, you may have to rely on the Swatch Group Service Center and not your local watchmaker or jeweller. As for the serviceability of these movements, I would not be a bit surprised if Swatch Group Service Center swaps out the old movement with a new movement. The rational for this would be that it would be the most cost effective for both the customer and the service centre both in time and costs.


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## watchguy-007 (May 22, 2019)

NC_Hager626 said:


> I have an H-10 and an H-30 movement, and both movements have an 80-hour power reserve and very accurate. I would go with the H-50 and the newer technology that has been incorporated into the movement over the 2801-2 movement. You may also want to refer to the following link with respect to the H-50's accuracy.
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f357/hamilton-khaki-field-mechanical-white-dial-review-4968301.html


Looks dope man, great wrist shot

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## Stromboli (Mar 26, 2010)

NC_Hager626 said:


> Tthe new technology that Swatch Group has incorporated into their 80 and 60-hour movements are patent, and outside of the Swatch Group little is known about the composition of these new materials let alone their availability in the marketplace. Therefore, it is my opinion, that when it comes time to have your watch serviced, you may have to rely on the Swatch Group Service Center and not your local watchmaker or jeweller. As for the serviceability of these movements, I would not be a bit surprised if Swatch Group Service Center swaps out the old movement with a new movement. The rational for this would be that it would be the most cost effective for both the customer and the service centre both in time and costs.


Thanks, I'll keep that in mind as I decide. I'm not able to purchase watches like I used to so I want to know the in's and out's of what I'm getting into. To me this will be a very big treat, I look forward to it.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

As far as reliability, a lot of this comes down to whether you think Swatch would shoot themselves in the foot. The Powermatic line dominates their new releases. It's the replacement for the 2824 and the 2892, so it's a mainstay. They're NOT offering it, to my knowledge, to anyone outside the group. Conversely, as they've made the 2824 and 289x harder to source, more brands are coming up with alternatives. So if these bomb...Swatch is gonna have a real problem.

I also wouldn't be too surprised if NC_Hager's right...simply swapping the movement is likely to be more sensible. The list price for the plain-cased Khaki Field is $500, and that's at full markup. Puts wholesale at probably 250-300, which means the movement can't be very expensive. I don't know how long it'd take to replace a broken part, but loaded labor rates would shoot past the movement cost pretty darn quick.


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## bigjaymofo (Nov 5, 2017)

Verydark said:


> That's the question, i like the new power reserve but i'm not really sure about reliability, which one would you choose and why?


I am having the same dilemma right now myself. I have zero concerns about the reliability of the H-50. The big question though is the 80 power reserve of the H-50 worth the slower beat rate and as a result a less smooth sweep of the seconds hand as compared to the 2801. Personally, I would take a used 2801 but I might still opt for a brand new H-50...Decisions, decisions.


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## llyr (Jul 21, 2018)

I will go with the H- 50 on this one.


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## bigjaymofo (Nov 5, 2017)

Decision made. Just bought a 2804 in mint condition for about half of what a new H-50 would have cost me. If the price where the same it would be hard decision. For what I paid for the 2804, it was a no-brainer.


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

I am sure the H-50 will be fine. By the time these need service, the movement will be better understood by watchmakers

I understand the idea behind the H series movement in the automatic Khaki line and its dumbing down the movement beat rate to get a longer Power Reserve. This would allow somebody to wear it on Friday and take it off for the weekend and have it running on Monday morning. But for the manual watches, I would rather have the higher beat and a lower power reserve. I have always wound my manual watches(pocket watches and Hamilton Khaki and other vintage watches) every morning before i got ready for the day. So the 80 hour power reserve is lost to me. I would rather have a gliding second hand.


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## c185445 (Feb 10, 2018)

I probably belong to a minority of people that actually wouldn't mind if more manufacturers actually released again 18,000bph watch movements. My father has a hand-wound one that was my grandad's and I love the slower "tick tack" sound. It sounds as a clock.


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

c185445 said:


> I probably belong to a minority of people that actually wouldn't mind if more manufacturers actually released again 18,000bph watch movements. My father has a hand-wound one that was my grandad's and I love the slower "tick tack" sound. It sounds as a clock.


It is not that I have an issue with a slower beat watch. I have several pocket watches with a nice solid slow tick. However I have an issue with a watch company taking an existing watch that has a handwound higher beat movement and switching it out with a lower beat movement to get a higher power reserve. On the Khaki mechanical watch (which is a handwinder) most folks (including me) wind it up each morning so the extended power reserve means nothing


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## brothertime (Feb 23, 2017)

The lower beat rate also reduces the amount of wear on the mechanism, and thus increases the time interval to service. The downside is the movement is more vulnerable to temporary timing inaccuracies from shocks or bumps. The upside, you can get at least another year or two before you have to service the watch. I’m with you on the manual wind movements- I wind mine every day or before bed. I’m guessing this was done to help Hamilton meet warranty requirements, since less movement wear should equate to longer lasting movements.


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## D_Man (Jul 29, 2019)

Well I suppose this is as good of post as any to throw my first .02 into. 

I looked and looked and looked at Khaki Field Mechanical's. I wanted one for multiple reasons. For one, I really gravitate towards 1940's style field watches and with Hamilton releasing a homage to their own original timepiece, well it makes it easy to decide which one to get. Which leads me into another reason why I chose the KFM Hammy. I have been wearing $100-$200 various quartz and other non-swiss Autos over the years for a daily work horse watch that I don't mind scratching up and banging into things. The KFM to me was going to be an upgrade to my everyday wear workhorse watch. 

Which brings me into the H-50 vs 2801 decision. 

I don't like how Hamilton just abruptly moved to the H-50 while getting rid of the 2801 movement. It seems they solved a problem no one was complaining about. An 80 hour power reserve on a hand winder? And in order to achieve it they lower the beat rate and make it not as easily to regulate (albeit reports show it coming in quite accurate out of the box). The reason I say its a non-existent problem is that very very few people who wear a hand wind watch wear it to last for 80 hours before needing a wind. They wear it because they enjoy the interaction of a hand wind watch. Every morning they throw on their clothes, put their wallet in their pocket, wind the watch and put it on. Hamilton seems to have given what no one was asking for and sort of pushed people who are mechanical purists away. Were they hoping to get a new generation of watch wearers with this? I say possibly. But again, if someone was worried about not having to wind their watch as much then they would wear an auto or even a quartz. In 2019, someone who is buying a hand winding watch wants to hand wind it. If this "amazing" 80 hour reserve came out in 1946 then I am sure people would jump for joy thinking its amazing. But in 2019 when we have watches that run off the suns' energy, and virtually never need service, the ones who are still buying a hand wind watch want to hand wind it. 

And to solve this problem that no one considered a problem. They lowered the beat rate and made the hand more sluggish. Again, if this was released in the 1940's, no one would care if the hand was slightly more sluggish. They are just happy they can go a couple more days without winding it. In 2019, when watches are purely aesthetic, completely unnecessary (even more so hand wind ones), or if you need one for work and are not a watch person then there is literally hundreds of options available for less than 25 bucks that never need servicing. Even digital versions for 40 bucks that are more accurate than a $100k mechanical watch. Therefore, the people that want these types of watches want to wear them because they choose to wear a mechanical timepiece, not because they have to wear a mechanical time piece, so this is why I feel they solved a problem that didn't exist. I mean we are talking 42 hours reserve vs 80 hour reserve. 42 hours easily gets you through a full day and then some, IMO thats all you NEED and/or want in a hand winding piece.


That is why I settled on the ETA 2801 version and ended up snagging one just yesterday from the classifieds here. The higher beat rate, thus smoother second hand and tried and true technology of the ETA 2801 is what did it for me. I am not worried about the serviceability of either, just purely the movement itself. Using an analogy, I thought of it as I basically chose the work horse V8 pickup truck instead of the fancier unproven new technology. Sure that V8 truck might get worse gas mileage and pollute the air, but it'll never let you down. And IMO that is what the beauty of a hand winding mechanical watch is all about. Its a homage to a time long gone, a time when none of us were even alive to remember. And in order to have that experience, you want the best experience possible and I don't think that experience is really added too much with an 80 hour reserve while sacrificing sweep smoothness.


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## brothertime (Feb 23, 2017)

To be clear, there have been a handful of manufacturers who are producing new movements at 3hz, so Hamilton isn’t the only one doing this. Many of Seiko’s movements are at 3.5hz, so I wouldn’t say 3hz is bad, and it’s clear that it has advantages that are still relevant today.


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## brash47 (Jul 14, 2018)

I love the accuracy of my Hamilton's with the new slower movements. They are 3 of my most accurate watches.









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## Stromboli (Mar 26, 2010)

NC_Hager626 said:


> Tthe new technology that Swatch Group has incorporated into their 80 and 60-hour movements are patent, and outside of the Swatch Group little is known about the composition of these new materials let alone their availability in the marketplace. Therefore, it is my opinion, that when it comes time to have your watch serviced, you may have to rely on the Swatch Group Service Center and not your local watchmaker or jeweller. As for the serviceability of these movements, I would not be a bit surprised if Swatch Group Service Center swaps out the old movement with a new movement. The rational for this would be that it would be the most cost effective for both the customer and the service centre both in time and costs.


So in other words if you are out of warranty and need servicing to the movement most likely you the owner will be forced to purchase a new movement. I hate to say it but if this is the case I just might wait to hear some more feedback on this new H-50, and possibly how much a new movement could cost. It is just like the guy who hit the lotto and was able to afford the car of his dreams, a "Porsche" he had to get rid of it shortly after due to the fact that he couldn't afford the insurance.


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## Stromboli (Mar 26, 2010)

journeyforce said:


> It is not that I have an issue with a slower beat watch. I have several pocket watches with a nice solid slow tick. However I have an issue with a watch company taking an existing watch that has a handwound higher beat movement and switching it out with a lower beat movement to get a higher power reserve. On the Khaki mechanical watch (which is a handwinder) most folks (including me) wind it up each morning so the extended power reserve means nothing


This is just an opinion but I would think that the less you have to wind a watch the less that could go wrong as far as repairs. Does that sound right? I alos would wind a mechanical every day but there are those rain days where I would swap out a watch for one of my divers, and it would be a treat if I didn't have to reset the mechanical for at least several days. Those are the perks of the H-50 movement.


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

Given the choice, I would definitely favor the 2801. 

Unfortunately many Hammie are not available in both flavors and the newer releases only have the lowbeat H movements.


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

Given the choice, I would definitely favor the 2801. 

Unfortunately many Hammie are not available in both flavors and the newer releases only have the lowbeat H movements.


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## Rickster27b (May 8, 2019)

I was unsure of buying the newer model Khaki Field automatic with the H10 movement. However, I bought one, and just checked the accuracy.

the results were.. 

-0.7 secs per day. 

Very pleased, plus it is a good looking watch!

Rick


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## brash47 (Jul 14, 2018)

I have one of the white dial 38mm handwounds. I actually wind this watch about every 3 days when it's not in rotation, just sitting in the case. I like that I dont need to wind it every day and its keeping amazing time.

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## roseskunk (Jul 20, 2008)

The non-screw down large crown and no date makes the Hammy a joy to wind, unlike my Speedy, with the crown buried in the case a bit. Like many things, older is better.


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## NoHoMan (Jan 9, 2018)

Stromboli said:


> ...but there are those rain days where I would swap out a watch for one of my divers, and it would be a treat if I didn't have to reset the mechanical for at least several days.


^^^ THIS. Getting beyond dogma and into real world usage. That said, i gotta admit, a power reserve indicator on an 80-hr hand wind movement would be great for these scenarios 

So my question is - can i swap the H-50 into a watch that currently houses an ETA 2801 or equiv Sellita? Im holding a few in hand, and would love to have that 80-hr under a different dial...


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## MrDisco99 (Jul 5, 2018)

NoHoMan said:


> ^^^ THIS. Getting beyond dogma and into real world usage. That said, i gotta admit, a power reserve indicator on an 80-hr hand wind movement would be great for these scenarios
> 
> So my question is - can i swap the H-50 into a watch that currently houses an ETA 2801 or equiv Sellita? Im holding a few in hand, and would love to have that 80-hr under a different dial...


I don't see why not. They're just different versions of the same movement.


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