# Stowa Flieger Baumuster B vs. Laco Flieger 42mm Baumuster B



## FliegerPL

Pros and Cons of two great pilot watches:

*Stowa vs. Laco *










More info: *SCHAUER - Basel 2010* 

 More info: *Laco Shop*


I'm a Stowa-Fan and I sympathize with this manufacture. 
In my little collection I own a Stowa Flieger LE 2801 (44/100) and Stowa Antea 365 COSC. I intend to buy Marine Original and maybe Partitio. 
Really great watches but in this competition (Flieger Typ B) in my opinion wins Laco.

Why?

- price difference 
- "more authentic" 
- hand winding
- engraving FL23883
- solid back with engraving
- 2 straps
- available from stock (Stowa - Approx. 6 - 8 weeks)

Stowa has better hands, beautiful silver hand made rotor, smoother case and all in all is more elegant than Laco. 
But there is a question: Have to be a pilot watch elegant? I don't think so. It is not a dress watch. 
That's why a sapphire crystal back, silver rotor, automatic movement or smooth case is not so important for me in this type of watch.

I've tried to compare this two watches and my conclusion you can read from the table below.










*Which One Would You Choose And Why? *


----------



## senna89wc12

I absolutely adore Stowa watches, but this time I would choose the Laco over the Stowa.

The reasons are:


Bigger case for the Laco makes the B-dial less cluttered. I think the 40mm case of Stowa somehow makes the B-dial a bit too busy.
Price differences. Laco is less expensive.
Bead blasted finish fits the authentic flieger watches a bit better. Not saying that the more polished case of Stowa is a bad idea however.
Laco offers a handwinding movement for their flieger

There are something I like about the Stowa better though:


Stowa's Flamed-hands > Laco's painted hands
I like Stowa's onion crown much better than the diamond shaped crown
The smaller 40mm case of Stowa wears better than the 42mm case on my 6.5" wrist. (this is a personal preference)
I think Stowa's overall proportion looks better than Laco. I have always like the overall balance look of Stowa Flieger. Some of the bigger Flieger watches offered by some other brands look a bit too unbalanced in their looks when they get bigger in size.


----------



## FliegerPL

senna89wc12 said:


> Laco offers a handwinding movement for their flieger - _There will be probably Stowa Flieger Typ B LE of this watch with HW
> 
> _ There are something I like about the Stowa better though:
> 
> 
> Stowa's Flamed-hands > Laco's painted hands - _Are you sure? Is it not a chemical blueing process?_


----------



## senna89wc12

If there is a LE of the B-dial flieger with HW I will for sure go for it. And as far as I know, aren't the Stowa blue hands always heated with flame? Or only maybe now the higher end Schauer brand watches have them?


----------



## langtoftlad

For me - based on the two pictures alone - I would have to say the Stowa.
The whole Stowa seems better proportioned, certainly the crown on the Laco is ugly, the way it sticks out like a wart...
The Stowa case appears to be nicer generally, the Laco is functional, look at the way the lugs on the Stowa flow from the main case. On the Laco they look as if they're stuck on.
I even prefer the Stowa strap - the Laco looks, well... cheap. Small thing I know, but it just is part of the overall package.


----------



## minimoog

The Laco no doubt looks more like the WWII originals, the case shape and seconds hand in particular. The Stowa is more of an interpretation, but a very pleasing one. Which is why I'm waiting for mine to arrive ;-)


----------



## StufflerMike

From Laco Forum (member cholack)



> I've directly Ms. Bott from Laco and she confirms that the hands are painted.


----------



## Tom Traubert

^WHS^ And it's why I have #11 on my wrist at the moment.

I also investigated the Laco route (which I may revisit), via Archimede, and settled on Stowa as the 'correct' choice for me. As with much else in life I would recommend finding what suits one, as an individual, best and being happy in that choice 

Now for that Schauer One Hand… ;-)


----------



## brainless

> Which One Would You Choose And Why?


I will choose neither of them.
I already chose more than a year ago the one and only WUS edition:



















...and after I took those pics, the watch got blued hands too. |>

Volker ;-)


----------



## FliegerPL

brainless said:


> I will choose neither of them.
> I already chose more than a year ago the one and only WUS edition:
> Volker ;-)


The WUS-edition is my dream  but it is not so simply to get this version.


----------



## frank_be

I have them both and the Stowa gets by far the most wrist time. It practically didn't leave my wrist the last 5 months.

... no and I'm not selling my WUS edition b-)


----------



## Roy

I have been through this thinking process. But Stowa won in the end. The lugs and crown of Laco is too pertruding and original. Stowa's intepretion somehow is more smoothing to me. Of course if I have the cash I will have a GO instead =X


----------



## Jörg Schauer

Hello everybody,

just three short comments regarding the quality of the STOWA watch compared to the Laco watch and the price difference this three features cause.

1 - We use *real blued steel hands*, these hands are the best quality hands in the market and very, very expensive.
Only a few companies can get this hands from the best supplier in the world! .-)

2 - A *matt finished case* like ours needs more time to be finished than a sand blasted case, this finish of the case is the best you can have. .-)
(of course it is a matter of taste - if you prefer sand blasted cases or those finished with a satin finish like ours, as far as I am concerned I prefer this because it looks higher quality like IWC and others)

3 - *the lume on our dials is the best* in the market and also very expensive, if you compare with other watches the STOWA lume probably will be more intensive I suppose (this is the result of a few watch magazine tests in the past, I will add this tests in a few weeks to our new Onlineshop). .-)

Anyway, the Laco is a watch which is worth the price you pay but the STOWA details are more than worth the higher price. .-)

It is all a matter of the small details behind "two similar" watches on a first look.

That's why it is is very delicate to compare two "similar" watches without having the background details which ago beyond a first look. 

Best regards

Jörg Schauer


----------



## minimoog

Morning Jörg

Compliments of the season to you all at Stowa and thank you for your comments. It's a nice feeling to be buying a watch from a company and proprietor so involved with their customers 

On this point in particular:



Jörg Schauer said:


> 1 - We use *real blued steel hands*, this hands are the best quality hands in the market and very, very expensive. Only a few companys can get this hands from the best supplier in the world! .-)


Can you (or anyone else) tell me what the process is to make these hands so I can better appreciate their quality?

Many thanks |>


----------



## senna89wc12

Jörg Schauer said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> just three short comments regarding the quality of the STOWA watch compared to the Laco watch and the price difference this three features cause.
> 
> 1 - We use *real blued steel hands*, these hands are the best quality hands in the market and very, very expensive.
> Only a few companies can get this hands from the best supplier in the world! .-)
> 
> 2 - A *matt finished case* like ours needs more time to be finished than a sand blasted case, this finish of the case is the best you can have. .-)
> (of course it is a matter of taste - if you prefer sand blasted cases or those finished with a satin finish like ours, as far as I am concerned I prefer this because it looks higher quality like IWC and others)
> 
> 3 - *the lume on our dials is the best* in the market and also very expensive, if you compare with other watches the STOWA lume probably will be more intensive I suppose (this is the result of a few watch magazine tests in the past, I will add this tests in a few weeks to our new Onlineshop). .-)
> 
> Anyway, the Laco is a watch which is worth the price you pay but the STOWA details are more than worth the higher price. .-)
> 
> It is all a matter of the small details behind "two similar" watches on a first look.
> 
> That's why it is is very delicate to compare two "similar" watches without having the background details which ago beyond a first look.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Jörg Schauer


Thanks for your explanation Jörg! The quality of Stowa watches speaks for itself indeed. It is the details that the team puts in which make them worthwhile to have.


----------



## Jörg Schauer

Sorry i forgot another important and very high quality detail: our handmade Rotor in german silver .-)

Not only handmade but also individual serial numbered - each watch !

I think thats all.

best regards

Jörg Schauer

If i count all this special features: _*real blued steel hands*_, *more expensive finish of case*, *best lume dial* and the* handmade rotor *in "german silver"i think the price relation will be much better than i supposed


----------



## frank_be

And blued screws and sapphire case back.... :-!


----------



## StufflerMike

minimoog said:


> Can you (or anyone else) tell me what the process is to make these hands so I can better appreciate their quality?


We already had a lot of posts/threads regarding "blueing stainless steel screws". The most interesting read would be the British Horological Institute: bhi - clocks, watches &amp the art and science of timekeeping.

Using the search function would have delivered:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f36/blue-screw-process-71573.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/newbie-inquiry-about-blue-screws-57548.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f36/newbie-question-blued-screws-150582.html

There are more reports on WUS (see my NOMOS report, there are pics re blueing screws at the NOMOS premises).


----------



## paveiv

This is a hard choice :-/ Even though I have decided for Laco in the end (hopefully I should be ordering it next week), it was a hard call and probably will get Stowa later this year too. 

Why Laco? In short, it looks more like the original. After reading many posts here on the forum, most of you prefer the "smoothness" of the Stowa case, the lugs but I like the looks of Laco case more, plus more historically accurate. Second, it is hand wound and of course the price is more "friendly" for me right now. 

But Stowa...I know it is not that original, but the 2824-2, especially the rotor which I adore and COSC (to be honest I do not care about the certification but I do like the better materials in some parts and the polished look). Second, the hands, the hands, the hands. I probably would not recognize the difference but the feeling... And I do not know the customer service of Laco but I have heard miracles about Stowa. So the price is definitely justifiable (more than that) but right now, it will be Laco, really tough call.

Oh and I almost forgot, thank you FliegerPL for the comparison!


----------



## X.R.

Agree, I would lean toward Laco this time.


----------



## SiebSp

I am a great Stowa fan. I own 4 Stowa watches.
I have chosen the Laco over the Stowa, because it is more like the original. I think the Stowa is beautiful, but to me "historical correctness" in a B-Uhr is more important.
I realize that 45 mm would be even more correct, but I have chosen 42 mm for wearability.


----------



## fachiro1

Having owned both Stowa and Laco versions, No logo flieger, the wus le as well as the regular buhr auto, I have to say that fit and finish is superior with the Stowa. You see it in the case finishing, the dial, the hands, and the movement. I've opened up the wus le and it is basically and undecorated eta...nothing special. the Laco's bead blast finish, though true to the original is as basic as it gets. 


That being said, the Laco is the most representative of the modern and miniaturization of the old classic buhr watch, in almost every respect. The case shape, the thin mid case lugs, the carefully created b dial, even the lume pattern, the closed old style strap, all of these elements make the Laco a more authentic interpretation. The new versions even have press fit case backs.


So....it all boils down to what you want!

A fantastic quality greatly finished watch, or a true to the original very good quality watch.


I love both.....


----------



## snowfox

I'm hoping to get a Stowa shortly, but not this kind.

For some reason, you guys all seem to be enamoured with Beobachten-Flieger-Uhr's.

I've had a sh*t time flying planes all December with snow and ice cap delays lol.

In any case, it was the Steinhart Nav B Uhr which gets my vote:










Particularly the limited edition Russian version with the more rugged brown strap!










I've defected to the Russian forum to see if they will release their secret code for me so that I can get the Limited Edition Steinhart Russian Nav B Uhr!


----------



## StufflerMike

Steinhart seems to offer VFM, however the Steinhart Nav *B* watch is qua name kind of ridiculous because there has been no B-Uhr during WW II with a sub dial. All B-watches had a center seconds hand. In terms of "correctness" a real boob and therefore not my cup of tea.


----------



## UJU

The Laco might look more like the original if that's a big issue for you, but the smooth lines of the Stowa looks better IMO.
Original case shape or not, the Stowa.|>


----------



## Myron

So well stated, fachiro1. Clearly the only way forward is to own both. ;-)

Myron


----------



## Hologram

Even though I don't own either of them. After reading the comments about the two and how one is more historically accurate than the other. It seems to me Nd just my opinion that the Stowa takes from the original and enhances it's aspects in every positive way. Yeah remakes of originals in all aspects are always compared to the true origin and usually scrutinized for not being true but in this case I think Stowa version is what the original would be if it were made from scratch today if that makes sense.


----------



## fachiro1

No, it doesn't make sense at all. That's like saying a Lamborghini Murcielago is what the Model T would have been has the model T been made today. OkaY......:-s

Stowa was one of the 5 original companies that made the buhrs for the German military, so the pedigree is certainly there. 


The Laco for all intents and purposes, is the closest you will get to the 60 year old watch, in almost very aspect. The case. The time and effort put into the dial print. Even the font of the case side engraving. 

Having owned both watches, I agree that the Stowa has better fit and finsh, but the Laco is historically more correct. 

In the end, it all depends on what you want, what you like, and how much you can afford.

One aspect of the two watches is the difference in case size. On the wrist, the Laco definitely feels larger and taller. SOme may like this or not. The Stowa, being thinner, may wear better for some, but at 40mm, mat seem a bit small depending on wrist size. 

There are two other aspects to consider. The B Dial, compared to the A Dial, has more printing on it and it has been mentioned int he past that it is better suited to a larger watch case. Int he case of the Stowa, due to the wider bezel, the dial may appear even smaller. The Laco has a thin bezel and contributes to the appearance of a larger dial face, enhancing the overall visibility of the b dial.

Regarding the Steinharts with the sub seconds.....I think these watches have grown to be a category in an of themselves. Historical buhrs did not have subseconds; they had a central seconds with a hacking feature. Personally, the only aspect of these watches that I like is the case size and thickness, being 47mm. Steinhart does make a 44 and 47mm auto b dial, which is okay in quality, but the example I used to own did not exceeed the Stowa fit and finish, and I still like the Laco better.


----------



## AustinOX

Having just seen a wrist shot of the Stowa B dial, I've gotta go with Laco on this one as well. I think the B dial lends to a more vintage/utilitarian/instrument look, and the smaller, thinner, more modern Stowa case clashes with the dial. I'd also agree with the previous poster about the dial clutter. The all-dial 42mm Laco is as small as I would go with a B dial flieger. I don't think anyone is arguing that Laco's manufacturing is at the same level of quality (or cost) as Stowa's, but the Laco case provides a much more unique and striking look. The new crown doesn't photograph well, but in person it looks fantastic. Much better than Laco's old screw-down crown.

That being said, my 42mm Laco Flieger Classic (A dial) seemed a little stark and plain with all of that black real estate on the dial. That was the deciding factor that led me to flip it and find a Support Chrono. The ideal solution for me would be a Laco B dial for casual dress, and a Stowa A dial for slightly more upscale affairs. 

Austin


----------



## Guest

I can't comment on the 'Typ B' or 'Baumuster' style B-Uhr, but I have had the Stowa FA and recently bought a Laco 45mm Typ A (handwinding ETA 2801) and the Junghans J687 powered Archimede 42mm limited edition Original Pilot.

I am going to assume that people reading this thread are interested in a watch which will come close to a genuine WWII 'beobachtungsuhr' and not simply a modern interpretation (of which there are now many). Granted, an true version will be 55mm in diametre and about 20mm high, but while such purity is admirable it is almost certainly not wearable.

So taking this as some kind of reference point (rather than a standard of 'good vs bad') let me say that the Stowa is very high quality and a great piece. However, I sold it almost immediately after it arrived as it is nowhere near what I expected as a B-Uhr (again, I'm not being judgemental, it just isn't really trying to be an authentic B-Uhr but a modern interpretation). The dimensions are simply too small all round, and the case and finish do not lend it an 'older feel'. OK... yes, yes..., it has superb heat blued hands (and these are the best out there until you get to a much higher price category such as GO, for example). The hands, however, are not enough.

The Laco is 45mm and comes closer to the feel of an original B-Uhr, particularly as the 'old style' wide lugs add to this effect. The case style, finish, engraving, etc. are all much closer to the feel that you might expect of a B-Uhr. In addition, the dial is less crammed (than the Stowa) and thus evokes the earlier massive dials. The lume is also excellent. The handwinding 2801 with seconds hack and the diamond crown are a good combination, IMO, and very close to achieving the effect of an authentic B-Uhr. The only let-down is the quality of the chemically blued hand-set (when people refer to the hands being painted what they really mean, as I understand it, is the metal is blued by applying a chemical solution or lacquer. So the metal is blued but chemically rather than from heat. They are not, strictly speaking, painted blue. The final result does look painted, however. Bear in mind, I may be incorrect as to the exact process that Laco use). This is not a particularly good outcome, and to be honest, I may look for a higher quality hand-set and mod the Laco.

The Archimede Original Pilot is an interesting piece. Of all the Flieger/B-Uhren out there it is the only one which is 'all German' (unless you go again to a higher price bracket such as Glashütte Original, or a few others). The case made and finished by Fricker and houses the NOS Junghans J687 movement. The addition of the old stock movement is a nice touch. While it is not directly evolved from the military pieces produced by Junghans (such as a previous watch I've also owned, the Kal. J88 Bundeswehr Chronograph) but rather from the line of Bauhaus style handwinding dress watches (e.g. the Kal. J87) it remains a superb lineage and its wonderful to have the slowly beating original movement driving this watch (5 beats per sec vs. 6/sec for the ETA 2801, or 8/sec for the ETA 2824).

To come back to the question raised at the top of the thread, I do feel that both the Laco and Archimede are closer to old style B-Uhren than the Stowa.

Having said all this, I am very tempted to go for an original WWII watch and was offered a Tutima (Glashütte) example in non-working order a month or two ago. Its is a big commitment in time, money and work to go for something like this though. An ultimate goal might be, however, the Glasshütte Original Senator Navigator Auto, or of course, the IWC 5004... 

-bergspringer


----------



## brainless

I can't remember any other occasion,

that I've read so much nonsense in only one post.

- Why should Archimede purchase cases at Fricker? They are manufacturing cases by themselves (Ickler).
- The Laco blue hands are painted blue and are not chemically blued - so I was told when I had been in Pforzheim getting the blue hands for my WUS L.E.
- Referring to Junghans there is a wild mixture of styles, calibres and references - without any sense.
-


> "I can't comment on the 'Typ B' or 'Baumuster' style B-Uhr,.."


There is no _"Baumuster" style B-Uhr_.
The WWll-watches are called "B-Uhr" and they are differing in their two dials: First one (manufactured till 1941) type "A" (conventioal dial), joined by the type "B" (additional inner circle of hour numerals).



> "I am going to assume that people reading this thread are interested in a watch which will come close to a genuine WWII 'beobachtungsuhr' and not simply a modern interpretation .."


 - Who made you believe here are only people looking for poor imitations of legendary WWll-watches?
I assume most people here are interested in watches designed and made by Jörg Schauer and his team.

Volker ;-)


----------



## Guest

Oh, great. Thanks. Its responses like that one... :roll:... which remind me why I stopped posting on this forum, particularly on this sub-forum. I'll leave at at that...

-bergspringer


----------



## Guest

No... in fact I'm going to cancel my account. I've had it with posters like "brainless".

-bergspringer


----------



## Renisin

It sounds more to the point that money is the issue for you. All the rest of your argument for a laco is unfounded, simply because neither are historically accurate! If you want accurracy you would need to go with a 55mm watch and for most that would be ridiculous. One may be closer to the original than the other but neither are true to the original design. So now it comes down to the small details that makeup the two watches and it is in those details where you will find the better watch. In this case the Stowa wins hands down, it is a better more refined watch and a pleasure to wear. If you do not care or notice the more refined look of the Stowa, then save your money and buy the cheaper Laco.


----------



## Renisin

bergspringer,

It comes down to what you like and the quality you can afford! None of the watches you mentioned are historically accurate and thus it is a matter of taste and quality. For me, the Stowa has all that I am looking for in an affordable watch. I say affordable watch because when you add up all the details of the Stowa, it compares nicely to watches that cost three and four times as much. Its size is perfect for my 7inch wrist and for most of the watch buying population. I am not saying that the Stowa is the end all to all watches, but when you consider the cost and what you get, there are few watches that do compare well to the Stowa!!! 

I bought an M.O. with roman numerals not because it was a true copy of another watch but because it was what appealed to me. I looked at Steinharts collection and others and could have saved some money but in the end would not have been happy with them. I have since ordered a Stowa Flieger with logo and a M.O. with the durowe movement. I ordered the logo version because IMO, the version without was too empty looking. I ordered the durowe movement because of it's uniqueness and beauty.

When you get down to it ,it becomes a matter of money and taste, for me the Stowa wins on both fronts.

Ren


----------



## geek_boy_in

I just checked the price today. The Laco is going at 690 Euros (incld 19% VAT and excld. shipping to outside Germany) ( https://shop.laco.de/en/Pilot-Watch/Pilot-42-Type-B-hand-winding1.html ) while the Stowa is at 640 Euros (incld VAT and excld. shipping) ... So the talked about price advantage is gone !!! What a terrible move from a marketing perspective by Laco ... The choice has become a no brainer now unless someone is hell bent on proving 42mm=55 in watch world.


----------



## 2cats

geek_boy_in said:


> I just checked the price today. The Laco is going at 690 Euros (incld 19% VAT and excld. shipping to outside Germany) ( https://shop.laco.de/en/Pilot-Watch/Pilot-42-Type-B-hand-winding1.html ) while the Stowa is at 640 Euros (incld VAT and excld. shipping) ... So the talked about price advantage is gone !!! What a terrible move from a marketing perspective by Laco ... The choice has become a no brainer now unless someone is hell bent on proving 42mm=55 in watch world.


The Laco that you've linked to has a top grade movement. The base Stowa and Laco do not. The base Laco is 490 euro.


----------



## Odin43

I'm a huge Stowa fan and I'm wearing my flieger no logo right now. It's beautiful but I'm considering the Laco b over the Stowa b. Partly to have a watch from a different watch company but mostly because it is more of a tool watch. I think both together would be a great thing. Stowa a all the way though.


----------



## geek_boy_in

2cats said:


> The Laco that you've linked to has a top grade movement. The base Stowa and Laco do not. The base Laco is 490 euro.


Actually the comparison chart provided by thread starter compared the movement by picking the hand wound 2801 for Laco and mentioning the price at 490 ... which is not the case I found.


----------



## 2cats

geek_boy_in said:


> Actually the comparison chart provided by thread starter compared the movement by picking the hand wound 2801 for Laco and mentioning the price at 490 ... which is not the case I found.


It's not on their web page now, but it was available when that chart was made, and I am confident that is the watch referred to. Model # 861695, standard grade 2801, 490 euro. Apparently the standard grade movements have been scarcely available this year. If you want to compare the 640 euro Stowa to the 690 euro Laco in chart-like fashion, there should be another line in the chart with a "+" for the Laco's top grade movement.


----------

