# 70's Fortis Spaceman



## Megadiesel

Hi all..I am going to purchase the watch below. I hope it's a genuine piece. I don't know much about the watch, but I really like it. Any thoughts\info on this model appreciated.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-VINTAGE-FO...temQQimsxZ20100302?IMSfp=TL100302229008r19664


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## midshipman01

Can't say about this exact watch for sure, but sophon has a spotty reputation as a seller among those in "the know". Particularly in the Seiko community where he seems to specialize, people have received franken watches that weren't advertised as such, refurbs advertised as originals, and other quality/condition related issues. We notice that he rarely shows the actual movement in the ad, which is pretty much expected when you're talking about a vintage watch...so do with that what you will. 

But, like I said, it's impossible to know really on a watch by watch basis. They aren't all bad by any stretch of the imagination so don't be terribly frightened, just telling you what I know. Hopefully it works out. Cool watch by the way.


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## Megadiesel

Thanks Midshipman I rushed too much should of come here before I input my bid. Hopefully it works out.


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## Bob11746

Megadiesel,
Did you ever get this watch? Sophon has more of these for sale, I was wondering how you made out.

Thanks,
Bob


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## Watch Obsessive

Hi guys,

Thought I would just add a bit of my know how to you if anybody is considering buying a vintage Spaceman watch off eBay.

Basically I had my eye on one of these Spaceman watches for several years without ever getting around to buying one. I actually purchased an Omax Oval Spaceman watch off eBay for a very reasonable price in NOS condition last year.

I contacted a watch specialist about the other models of Spaceman watches as here were a few available at very reasonable buy it now prices on eBay. I was told by the specialist that any watch that doesn't hold a brand name on the dial such as Fortis, Omax, Tressa Lux and Harlem etc is a 1990's re-issue. One of the sellers actually told me this as well but only when I asked them, they didn't state it in the listing description.

As for sophon, I have dealt with him in the past. I put in an offer for a vintage Sicura Jump Hour watch a couple of years ago without realising that if the offer was accepted I would automatically win the auction. I assumed the seller would respond personally to the offer without an automatically generated response from eBay. Sophon took some time to accept the offer by which time I had bid on another watch. I contacted him and explained the situation, he kindly cancelled the bid.

He has some nice looking vintage Seiko Bullheads but I am put off by the straight BIN prices, with vintage watches I would rather try and win an auction in the normal way to get a good price.

Cheers.


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## Kojikabuto

Megadiesel said:


> Hi all..I am going to purchase the watch below. I hope it's a genuine piece. I don't know much about the watch, but I really like it. Any thoughts\info on this model appreciated.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-VINTAGE-FO...temQQimsxZ20100302?IMSfp=TL100302229008r19664


Even if the link its old, i know what watches are you talking about










this is a redone watch with aftermarket hands and Fortis dial, yes im late, but better later than never.

Sophon sells a mix of genuine and redone watches with aftermarket parts, so if you dont know what your doing
buying from him can be a risky business, but the solution is simple, just ask, & he will never lie to you



Watch Obsessive said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Thought I would just add a bit of my know how to you if anybody is considering buying a vintage Spaceman watch off eBay.
> 
> Basically I had my eye on one of these Spaceman watches for several years without ever getting around to buying one. I actually purchased an Omax Oval Spaceman watch off eBay for a very reasonable price in NOS condition last year.
> 
> I contacted a watch specialist about the other models of Spaceman watches as here were a few available at very reasonable buy it now prices on eBay.* I was told by the specialist that any watch that doesn't hold a brand name on the dial such as Fortis, Omax, Tressa Lux and Harlem etc is a 1990's re-issue.* One of the sellers actually told me this as well but only when I asked them, they didn't state it in the listing description.
> 
> As for sophon, I have dealt with him in the past. I put in an offer for a vintage Sicura Jump Hour watch a couple of years ago without realising that if the offer was accepted I would automatically win the auction. I assumed the seller would respond personally to the offer without an automatically generated response from eBay. Sophon took some time to accept the offer by which time I had bid on another watch. I contacted him and explained the situation, he kindly cancelled the bid.
> 
> He has some nice looking vintage Seiko Bullheads but I am put off by the straight BIN prices, with vintage watches I would rather try and win an auction in the normal way to get a good price.
> 
> Cheers.


Sorry but that is quite incorrect, Whilst the spaceman watches were franchised to many other brands, The unbranded dial spaceman
were those made in the original factory by catena, catena did not sign some of their spaceman models with their logo until very late.

There were never any official reissue in the 90s, but a good bunch of unsold remaining Nos units, and spare parts at catena headquarters
when the original 1964 factory was reposseded by Eric Aubert in 1993

Catenausa.com Front Panel

herse a good bunch of "unsigned" catena spacemen in the original catalogs to prove my words










in fact those are the one to look for, as those are the early originals built in the original factory.


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## Watch Obsessive

Kojikabuto said:


> Even if the link its old, i know what watches are you talking about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is a redone watch with aftermarket hands and Fortis dial, yes im late, but better later than never.
> 
> Sophon sells a mix of genuine and redone watches with aftermarket parts, so if you dont know what your doing
> buying from him can be a risky business, but the solution is simple, just ask, & he will never lie to you
> 
> Sorry but that is quite incorrect, Whilst the spaceman watches were franchised to many other brands, The unbranded dial spaceman
> were those made in the original factory by catena, catena did not sign some of their spaceman models with their logo until very late.
> 
> There were never any official reissue in the 90s, but a good bunch of unsold remaining Nos units, and spare parts at catena headquarters
> when the original 1964 factory was reposseded by Eric Aubert in 1993
> 
> Catenausa.com Front Panel
> 
> herse a good bunch of "unsigned" catena spacemen in the original catalogs to prove my words
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in fact those are the one to look for, as those are the early originals built in the original factory.


Hi,

My apologies, I stand corrected.

I was merely relaying information I had been given by an eBay seller regarding the Spaceman Audacieuse models. I have an old brochure in PDF format with the oval Spaceman watches containing no brand logo but I was told that any Spaceman Audacieuse watches without a manufacturers logo were reissues.

Thanks for putting me straight. I hope to own a Audacieuse to compliment my oval one day so I now know that whatever I find on eBay will more than likely be genuine.

Cheers.


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## Kojikabuto

;-) always glad to help, this watches are my favourites.


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## Kojikabuto

one more thing 

will love if you can share that pdf with me, maybe its a brochure i dont have.

Anyway, when searching for those watches always look for advice first, as there are multiple replicas,..just taken a glance to ebay and noone is genuine,

Normally they are pretty obvious, like units of the striped dial model with light...but with no light at all.. 

But sometimes are easy to spot,.. sometimes not.

Just remember some clues,

Regarding the Audacieuse model 

-If you find a Relucient audacieuse that looks brand new, Normally is just that, brand new and not a vintage at all, Most of them are chinese replicas made in 2008 

-There are no original audacieuses with date disc with white background

- On a mans model Crown must be black and not naked stainless steel

- Replica bracelets has a much lighter engraving of the logo on the clasp

- A replica Normally will show a rounded Backplate with just a painted serigraphy with the wrong logo and not engraved, but be warned actually theres also better ones with the logo engraved, and a faked orange date disc..and so forth...

so like with most vintage watches, always advice, advice, and more advice before purchasing anything.


tomorrow i can attach some photos of what to avoid, if you need them


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## Watch Obsessive

Hey,

I've just spent an hour searching my Mac for the PDF, I knew I had it but I must have deleted it. I've think I've found the site where I downloaded it from. It's not a brochure just scans from a book featuring different Spaceman models. I can't remember if this is the same as what I had previously though, I'm sure it was different. I may be able to locate it one day as it's bugging me now!

You may have already seen it but it can be found towards the bottom of this page:

SPACEMAN - BOOK ANDRE LeMARQUAND « 70s Watches Gallery

I appreciate your advice regarding the Audacieuse. I used to see a lot of them on eBay but not so much anymore. A lot of retro/70's watch specialists on the web sell them but they're quire pricey.

I own a pristine Oval Omax Spaceman that rarely gets worn. I picked it up for a steal off eBay for around £80. It came with a brown strap that looked new but unfortunately was so old it had dried out completely. It snapped the second time I put it on my wrist. I purchased a red strap to match the face off eBay for around £30. It now looks complete. I'll post some pictures up soon.

I'm a big fan of 70's watches and jump hours.

All the best.


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## Kojikabuto

thanks mate, thats my place ;-)


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## Watch Obsessive

Ha Ha, ....! I didn't even notice your signature! What are the chances?!

Cheers.


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## szabgab

Kojikabuto said:


> thanks mate, thats my place ;-)


Hi, man, your knowledge seem to be unexhaustible.

Anyway, I will try to hijack this thread about a different ebay listing. Could you by any chance tell by any certainty, if this watch is a real deal or a fake? VINTAGE OMAX SPACEMAN AUTO GENTS WATCH,MINT | eBay

Thank you,

Gabriel


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## Kojikabuto

Watch Obsessive said:


> Ha Ha, ....! I didn't even notice your signature! What are the chances?!
> 
> Cheers.


;-)



szabgab said:


> Hi, man, your knowledge seem to be unexhaustible.
> 
> Anyway, I will try to hijack this thread about a different ebay listing. Could you by any chance tell by any certainty, if this watch is a real deal or a fake? VINTAGE OMAX SPACEMAN AUTO GENTS WATCH,MINT | eBay
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Gabriel


Of course Gabriel, no problem.

Its definite not a Total fake, but i warn you ive got some doubts,

it looks somewhat restored to me,...Crown at least not original or theres something wrong with it,..Photos aint very good though..

but it could be the angle..

try to ask seller for bigger photos

_*Some Hints*_

The enamel on the backplate suspiciously looks way too bold & shiny to me
something quite rare, as i always thought enamel cases 
cant be polished without taking the paint appart

a new old stock with the rounded backplate Normally should have a brushed center area

see this ones for example and compare the difference with the one in the ad,


















also note how the original crown protudes from the case

something that doesnt really happen in the ebay Audacieuse posted

the crown in that watch is shorter and kind of even with the case
and thats *not normal*

Dial and hands looks original to me, so it perhaps..could be an overhauled watch in one of those
_"reedition"_ cases..who knows

Now go back to the ebay ad, and check back what i mean.

Cheers


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## Kojikabuto

attached images from the ebay ad before it dissapears..

look at the backplate and that crown and compare yourself with the images above

Beware because i think we have a new batch of fakes in town,..

i have spotted at least another two more of this ones, in a very short time


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## Dr.Fu Manchu

Hey sorry to bring this up, but are Spacemans with a ss looking backplate legit?


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## Kojikabuto

thats an Omax lady spaceman model, a tad Smaller than gents

and even if its not in the best of the shapes, looks 100% legit to me

answering your question, yes, its fairly common to see Spaceman watches with polished backplates.

they lose collector value that way, but that does not mean they are not legit

most polished backplates are legit,

but only those that you can still see the engraving is there like in your photos,

if the backplate looks like a mirror & brand new like in those fortis restorations

on this thread then its not the original one, its a fake










i explain myself, most Asian vendors think "if its shinny its sells good", and polish the back of used spacemans or other vintage watches

with wear out pitted or rusted original enameled paintjob, to make the watch look fresh, or more appealing

But thats an error.

As Most serious collectors prefers watches as they come by, unmolested, and with all the aging or defects

than restored or retouched.

The problem with enameled backplates its that they are very sensitive to sweat

i have seen used spaceman audacieuse units with totally eroded backplates by sweat acids over the years

& believe me when this happens it does not look good.

So taking all that into account and considering the spaceman watch was a best seller in asia back in the 70s

and that weather in that part of the world is humid to death...yes all the jigsaw puzzle comes together.


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## Dr.Fu Manchu

Kojikabuto said:


> thats an Omax lady spaceman model, a tad Smaller than gents
> 
> and even if its not in the best of the shapes, looks 100% legit to me
> 
> answering your question, yes, its fairly common to see Spaceman watches with polished backplates.
> 
> they lose collector value that way, but that does not mean they are not legit
> 
> most polished backplates are legit,
> 
> but only those that you can still see the engraving,
> 
> if the backplate looks like a mirror & brand new like in those fortis restorations
> 
> on this thread then its not the original one.
> 
> i explain myself, most Asian vendors think "if its shinny its sells good", and polish the back of used spacemans or other vintage watches
> 
> with wear out pitted or rusted original enameled paintjob, to make the watch look fresh, or more appealing
> 
> But thats an error.
> 
> As Most serious collectors prefers watches as they come by, unmolested, and with all the aging or defects
> 
> than restored or retouched.
> 
> The problem with enameled backplates its that they are very sensitive to sweat
> 
> i have seen used spaceman audacieuse units with totally eroded backplates by sweat acids over the years
> 
> & believe me when this happens it does not look good.
> 
> So taking all that into account and considering the spaceman watch was a best seller in asia back in the 70s
> 
> and that weather in that part of the world is humid to death...yes all the jigsaw puzzle comes together.


Oohh man that's a women's watch? Is there some kind of difference in size? How do you know it's a lady's watch?
And also a ss back would be better in the long run right? It won't erode away like the enamel one.
Thanks!


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## Kojikabuto

Yes thats a womans model,

The Gents Spaceman Audacieuse Model is much bigger, crown is black, and the bracelet has a different shape

all the backs plates on spaceman audacieuse models were ss with a enamel paintjob from origin,

and no, a redone polished one, its not much better, because the watch whilst legit, loses all its potential collector value.

if you want extended info about Spaceman watches please feel free to visit my blog, its all there

Spaceman « 70s Watches Gallery


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## Dr.Fu Manchu

Kojikabuto said:


> Yes thats a womans model,
> 
> The Gents Spaceman Audacieuse Model is much bigger, crown is black, and the bracelet has a different shape
> 
> all the backs plates on spaceman audacieuse models were ss with a enamel paintjob from origin,
> 
> and no, a redone polished one, its not much better, because the watch whilst legit, loses all its potential collector value.
> 
> if you want extended info about Spaceman watches please feel free to visit my blog, its all there
> 
> Spaceman « 70s Watches Gallery


Crap so the $140 I spent on it was a bust?
That's kind of depressing. It looks tiny compared to the men's version.
The seller wrote it was a men's watch!!!


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## Drop of a Hat

Dr.Fu Manchu said:


> Crap so the $140 I spent on it was a bust?
> That's kind of depressing. It looks tiny compared to the men's version.
> The seller wrote it was a men's watch!!!


If that's true, then you can get a refund. Misrepresented goods.

Sent via Tapatalk


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## Dr.Fu Manchu

Drop of a Hat said:


> If that's true, then you can get a refund. Misrepresented goods.
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


Well I do have a week to return it. 
Hopefully I get it tomorrow. It left Vancouver at like 9am today, so I'd hope it would be close to Nevada by now.


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## Drop of a Hat

Dr.Fu Manchu said:


> Well I do have a week to return it.
> Hopefully I get it tomorrow. It left Vancouver at like 9am today, so I'd hope it would be close to Nevada by now.


Good luck. And let us know when it arrives.

Sent via Tapatalk


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## Kojikabuto

Dr.Fu Manchu said:


> Crap so the $140 I spent on it was a bust?
> That's kind of depressing. It looks tiny compared to the men's version.
> The seller wrote it was a men's watch!!!


i wouldnt say that 140$ were exactly a bust, but if watch was advertised as a gents model,

yes that is misrepresented goods.

im afraid vintage ladys models of any watch brand , always are less

collectable than their gents counterparts..the reason is pretty obvious

Most watch collectors are men..

Of course there are woman who share our passion, but unfortunately very few yet.

For the next time here are some photos to set a ladys model appart from a gents audacieuse watch

ladys model is the last one on the right on both photographs


















this is the clasp of the gents bracelet










this is the clasp of a ladys model










standart hands on a ladys model (shorter)










Standart large hands on a Gents Model










also note the black crown is the standart in an unmolested gents watch,

and its naked stainless in its ladys counterpart.

Tip for everybody

vintage watch collection sometimes can be a risky business,

so read the forums, learn, and

always advice, advice & more advice,

before buying anything.

cheers!


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## Dr.Fu Manchu

Drop of a Hat said:


> Good luck. And let us know when it arrives.
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


I got it. It's too small for my wrists and it's pretty small...Definitely looks like a women's watch. :/
Do you think I should turn around and sell it, or return it?


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## Kojikabuto

Dr.Fu Manchu said:


> I got it. It's too small for my wrists and it's pretty small...Definitely looks like a women's watch. :/
> Do you think I should turn around and sell it, or return it?


told ya..

sorry im late again, about returning the watch, if you are still in time, and you dont feel like wearing it, return it

bear in mind lady spaceman watches does NOT have the same collectors value than its gents counterparts.

cheers


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## Kojikabuto

Hi Mates,

As i am still recieving private mails from people in the forum about the so-called Spaceman Audacieuse "Replicas", 
(better say fakes) that every now and then hit the net for sale, So for further help for others, and since the last ones are getting harder to detect,
im going to show you how to spot them in a few steps:

For Example

Here is the offending watch a Supposed OMAX audacieuse from around 1974

WatchLIM Online Store, Your Vintage Watch Shop: 8) NOS VINTAGE OMAX SPACEMAN AUTOMATIC WATCH ( RM1250 )










*Trial : we are going to disect this watch and find out if its a fake or not*

At First Glance, this one looks legit, even for me, that im used to them, and own several of this watches myself
but when you look closely, you can start to observe the differences....

Regarding that watch, i have seen lately several like this every now and then in the net for sale, and if you look, 
the crown is not original, (not even close), and the engraving at the back its also too bold (spaceman logo is shorter), 
the bracelet is an aftermaket fake for sure, same as the chinese spaceman fakes, that pop up in ebay every week

lets see First the bracelet

This is an original Spaceman Audacieuse Stainless Steel bracelet Clasp

*Genuine*










* Fake
*

please note how thin is the vertical engraved line in the Spaceman logo on the legit clasp and now note the gap in the logo
of this aftermarket counterpart










Not only an aftermarket bracelet will feel flimsy, and with less weight than the sturdy originals,

As you can see the gap is much shorter and wider than its supposed, the engaving is much lighter, and the ends of the logo in the corners are too short, appart from stating the obvious, a New old stock watch from 1974 would never keep attached for 40 years a modern protection vinyl
to avoid scratches..:-d..lol

Now the crown

*Genuine
*









*fake*

As you can see a crown in a gents black audacieuse, has always to be black and not chrome and protude from the case, no matter if its a manual wind or an automatic Spaceman, heres a Manual wind model










now see the fake again










the crown is not original,and not black (In a supposed black model) is way shorter, and no way its not from the same vendor, thing that amazes me, as the previous chinese replicas did sport a perfect 1:1 copy but chrome

this is an original chrome spare part crown










and this is a common chinese replica back with a perfect CROWN copy as stated :










Naturally one can always think, it could be an original watch that simply has suffered somewhere in time a crown replacement,

with the wrong spare part, but all those omax fakes i see lately for sale *sports the same wrong crown*, so i dont think so.

*Now let see the back
*
on the usual chinese fakes you only had to turn the watch to find out if it was a fake or not

the chinese replicas sport a backplate with a correct finish but a single fake spaceman logo

and *NO* reference model numbers










or just a model number with no more lettering










*on this one its no so easy
*









Again the modern protective vinyl fooled us, and it looks the correct engraving, but fortunately i got some shots
of the same back without the confusing plastic attached so we can see whats wrong much better

here there are










As you can see heres a diferent one from another sale ad, with the same fake crown and same fake back

this time without the disruptive plastic attached

the engrave logo an model number seems to be correct, until you compare it with an original










as you can see an original backplate finish *has to be brushed and not polished*, and the engraving on the fake backplate
say the correct things but in *bold letters with a polished finish
*

look again

*fake*










*genuine*










then we move to the front and check the date disc dial and hands

the first thing you have to check, to spot a fake Audacieuse are the date discs, the early chinese fakes
always sported WHITE date discs wich its pain wrong, as all spacemans came originally with orange date discs










_Chinese 2007 replica with wrong white date disc
_

Then fakers got smarter,and started to sell replicas with the correct date colouring










_Chinese 2009 replica with fake orange date disc
_

So lets take a look to our 2012 friend....yes it has orange discs...good










But Now take a geniune one, this one its a zeno no date, but it has the same model dial, so it will be usefull for comparison










Now Fist of all, hands has the correct length on the watch we want to buy, but on this model the hours hand came thicker than the minutes hand

something it does not happen in our faked friend, as both hands has identical width.

Also note how the circle of the seconds hand is way smaller in the faked watch, than in any original spaceman ç

so the hands are a replica...but whats up with the dial?..

_*Search for the differences :*_










The only thing i had doubts with at first was the dial, Normally chinese faked spacemans dials does not carry any branding
so the idea of a faked branded Spaceman, was not in my mind and was something somewhat weird..so i thought_ 
*"maybe there was batch of real Nos dials from omax around in asia, and the usual fakers are mounting them in their faked cases"*

__but then i looked closely and found the truth, also the dial is faked, *spaceman logo is not straight, ITS NOT WELL ALLIGNED !!*
(see the angle between Spaceman and Audacieuse Wording)
and also how the lume dots aint old aged tritium __but kind of a painted gel coloring..

*Veredict:
*_*So this new batch of replicas seems to be much more confusing, and slightly better faked than the previous usual chinese suspects, 
but Still a a fake IMHO*:rodekaart

My advice?.....stay Away from them and if you want to purchase a genuine Spaceman watch, always ask for advice first ...

*
As DISCLAIMER for the seller of this watch, who looks a profesional and not a faker, must say that this new batch of asian fakes
are pretty new, confusing, as they can be confused easily with a genuine restored model with aftermaket parts, and fortunately there are not yet many of them popullating the market..so most probably even the seller himself will not know he is actually trying to sell a fake

For everything related to spaceman watches or 70s watches in general feel free to read my blog

*http://70swatchesgallery.wordpress.com


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## Davidwalker100

Hi, just love the watch style. Any places you see authentic ones for sale would love to hear. Cheers


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## easyview

Here is a new batch of N.O.S. fakes from Switzerland or am I wrong somewhere ?

1974 Retro Vintage OMAX Spaceman Audacieuse Andre Le Marquand Date Watch | eBay
and 
1974 Retro Vintage OMAX Spaceman Audacieuse Andre Le Marquand Date Watch | eBay

Now they scuff them to not make them look more vintage and not too shiny.
But the really weird thing is they say "Recently Proportionally Polished & Buffed." 
N.O.S. that needs to be polished and buffed !!!!! :rodekaart

Here are some pictures :

Wrong crown








Buffed NOS !!!
















If I am jumping to conclusion, please tell me.


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## Beaker311

Hi - really interested in what people think the price that you should be paying for these very cool watches.
Have seen a fair few of the oval ones on the chronos website, but can be anything from £220 to £600!
Any help welcome as fairly new to this game!

Cheers
David


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## Petey Pete

Jumping in this old thread - just to say thanks - I spotted this one and thought wow! Then did some research on prices, a fishy smell started to develop so I came here (again), and voila - seems like a fakey!

RARE OMAX SPACEMAN AUTO GENTS WATCH,MINT | eBay

So far, two watches I have liked and was planning on going for have both been fakes, and from the same seller - I am going to have to remember his name so I do not look at his watches again 

Ok, third time lucky, time to go watch hunting to start my collection (on the cheap).

Thanks for all the lovely info so far guys!

Pete


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## The Guvnah

*Another dud/franken?*

An old thread Pete but the fakes keep on coming, here's one I'm watching at the moment the provenance of which seems highly questionable showing a lot of the symptoms of fakery previously described. kojikabuto, I would value your opinion on this fellah if you would as I was thinking of having a punt at this one until the page finished loading and I saw these.

The seller put up a few poor pictures on his listing which were sufficient to raise doubts so I requested that he add a few more of specific areas and of better quality. this he's done but they're no better quality wise than the first batch. Here's what I'm seeing here...

















From what I've deduced so far, the positioning of that "Omax" logo looks too high in relation to the date window and strangely isolated from the rest of the text? Also the hands are superposed one above the other so it's impossible to pass judgement on the relative width of the two hands, the second hand looks OK though? I did ask for the seller to reposition the hands in the prescribed manner but he returns me that the movement won't set? hmmm... really?









From the above photo I had to question the authenticity of the bracelet and asked for a better pic and got this one by return.









Not much better and still not good enough to confirm anything in my mind. As for the crown it looks dimensionally correct but again impossible to confirm from the pi$$ poor photo that it's a plain stainless fake or if it's pukka and the black finish has just worn through.

:think:

As for the case back... I asked for a clear shot of the back including the text and logo!









:roll: Bloody hell mate, at least take it outside and get some light on it! He says it's because he's only got a camera phone so we're still none the wiser. I also asked for a movement shot but he failed to do so. He's saying it was from a house clearance and doesn't know anything about how to do that.

Could this be the lady's model perhaps? If so I could ask the vendor to take the measurements of the watch and report back as I understand that the gents model is 38mm x 38mm. Off the top of your head what should the dimensions of the lady's version be?

All and any enlightenment and opinion most welcome Kojikabuto, with thanks in advance.

Guv.


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## carrosa1mx

Hello everyone. Question: Have you ever seen a fake leather Catena Spaceman?


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