# Tudor Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze: Is Tudor Trolling Omega?



## Bostonbruins1924

They have really done some great work!


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## Brandonboyle

i think it looks stunning


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## thx67

I love their 2021 releases. They put Rolex to shame although this years Rolex offerings were especially poor. Dont get me started on the new Explorer ii. The Meta rating for the ceramic model was a strange move when they didnt follow it up with the rating on the bronze version. I have a feeling Tudor are going to see a large price hike over the next couple of years. Their nearest competitor for the BB would probably be the Seamaster and its currently about £1000 more than the equivalent BB so the BB lineup could quite easily take a price hike and still be great value. I hope they dont do this but we know that the house of Rolex knows a thing or two about selling watches. The new Tudor watches are very hard to get at the moment. I even had one dealer mention "spend history" when I enquired about a BB Chrono. 

With regards to the metas rating. I think its a bit of marketing. Tudors movements are always top notch and very accurate. Even the early eta BBs were very accurate. My BB GMT is as accurate as my Rolex. No extra certification needed. Im not saying METAS is a waste of time. I own 2 METAS omegas and both perform very well. I guess its nice to have but it wouldn't stop me or push me towards buying a watch.


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## JLittle

They have had some nice releases, still aren't in Omegas league. When it comes to quality of watches, Rolex and Omega are direct competitors. Rolex just has the name.


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## mg512

Competition is good for the consumer. Tudor needs to introduce the adjustable clasp to all of their models. Ceramic bezels and some AR coating would be nice next steps. Putatively they are cheaper than Omega but most people get 10-20% discount which brings them to near parity. You get more with Omega for the same money and you get a watch which wants to dethrone Rolex versus a watch which is told to be good but not too good by Rolex.


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## mleok

thx67 said:


> With regards to the metas rating. I think its a bit of marketing. Tudors movements are always top notch and very accurate. Even the early eta BBs were very accurate. My BB GMT is as accurate as my Rolex. No extra certification needed. Im not saying METAS is a waste of time. I own 2 METAS omegas and both perform very well. I guess its nice to have but it wouldn't stop me or push me towards buying a watch.


METAS and co-axial escapements have always been a marketing play on the part of Omega, and the Rolex group choosing to match the METAS certification on their entry-level brand was a not so subtle method of communicating where Rolex views Omega relative to their brand line up.


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## mg512

mleok said:


> METAS and co-axial escapements have always been a marketing play on the part of Omega, and the Rolex group choosing to match the METAS certification on their entry-level brand was a not so subtle method of communicating where Rolex views Omega relative to their brand line up.


Yep they like the rest of us realize that Omega is better than Tudor. They probably got tired of hearing the watch reviewers say that Omega has better movements than Rolex and more innovation so they used their second brand to fire a shot so they look like they're not acknowedgjng Omega. But the problem is that all of the WIS know that Rolex uses Tudor as a cloak. And therefore it still inspires the same thoughts that the Wilsdorf foundation acknowledged the competition. Honestly they probably shouldn't have made this move because it's better for Rolex when Rolex doesn't acknowledge them at all, meaning don't even let your kid brother acknowledge them.


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## Roningrad

mg512 said:


> Competition is good for the consumer. Tudor needs to introduce the adjustable clasp to all of their models. Ceramic bezels and some AR coating would be nice next steps. Putatively they are cheaper than Omega but most people get 10-20% discount which brings them to near parity. You get more with Omega for the same money and you get a watch which wants to dethrone Rolex versus a watch which is told to be good but not too good by Rolex.


On the adjustable clasp, definitely agree on this.

Omega... a watch that wants to dethrone Rolex... The want is definitely there. Why wouldn't they? I suppose it appears to be Tudor is the little brother blindsiding Omega. Two to one.


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## JustinMFrost

thx67 said:


> I love their 2021 releases. They put Rolex to shame although this years Rolex offerings were especially poor. Dont get me started on the new Explorer ii. The Meta rating for the ceramic model was a strange move when they didnt follow it up with the rating on the bronze version. I have a feeling Tudor are going to see a large price hike over the next couple of years. Their nearest competitor for the BB would probably be the Seamaster and its currently about £1000 more than the equivalent BB so the BB lineup could quite easily take a price hike and still be great value. I hope they dont do this but we know that the house of Rolex knows a thing or two about selling watches. The new Tudor watches are very hard to get at the moment. I even had one dealer mention "spend history" when I enquired about a BB Chrono.
> 
> With regards to the metas rating. I think its a bit of marketing. Tudors movements are always top notch and very accurate. Even the early eta BBs were very accurate. My BB GMT is as accurate as my Rolex. No extra certification needed. Im not saying METAS is a waste of time. I own 2 METAS omegas and both perform very well. I guess its nice to have but it wouldn't stop me or push me towards buying a watch.


Well, there's still the matter of the movement failures that Tudor was facing with its in-house calibers. There were a good number of them that went back and got new movements, based on what I've heard across the collecting community. I was just chatting with someone today whose 58 has gone out 30-sec a day. No brand will be perfect when you deal in the kind of volume that these guys deal in, but I wouldn't be so fast to give Tudor any kind of upper hand on quality/reliability over Omega.


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## teckel12

JustinMFrost said:


> Well, there's still the matter of the movement failures that Tudor was facing with its in-house calibers. There were a good number of them that went back and got new movements, based on what I've heard across the collecting community. I was just chatting with someone today whose 58 has gone out 30-sec a day. No brand will be perfect when you deal in the kind of volume that these guys deal in, but I wouldn't be so fast to give Tudor any kind of upper hand on quality/reliability over Omega.


There will ALWAYS be exceptions, no matter how good the movement is. I've heard plenty of Omega horror stories as well. But in general, the Tudor in-house movements are spectacular.


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## mg512

teckel12 said:


> There will ALWAYS be exceptions, no matter how good the movement is. I've heard plenty of Omega horror stories as well. But in general, the Tudor in-house movements are spectacular.


I agree. Tudors in house movements are pretty good. The only one which had issues was the GMT movement and the date skip problem.


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## teckel12

mg512 said:


> I agree. Tudors in house movements are pretty good. The only one which had issues was the GMT movement and the date skip problem.


Time travel would be considered a feature, not an issue.


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## mleok

mg512 said:


> Yep they like the rest of us realize that Omega is better than Tudor. They probably got tired of hearing the watch reviewers say that Omega has better movements than Rolex and more innovation so they used their second brand to fire a shot so they look like they're not acknowedgjng Omega. But the problem is that all of the WIS know that Rolex uses Tudor as a cloak. And therefore it still inspires the same thoughts that the Wilsdorf foundation acknowledged the competition. Honestly they probably shouldn't have made this move because it's better for Rolex when Rolex doesn't acknowledge them at all, meaning don't even let your kid brother acknowledge them.


It's obvious that Rolex acknowledges Omega as competition, why do you think they upgraded the 313X movements, improved the accuracy specification to +2/-2 spd, and increased the warranty period? Better that they do it with Tudor than Rolex, and it's clear that they're trying to position Tudor as their counterpoint to Omega. To be honest, that's a good move, as their cases and bracelets are very well made, and if they're able to compete on METAS certification, that would take the wind out of Omega's sails.

The co-axial escapement has no practical benefits (and quite a number of potential downsides) to the consumer, and it's really the use of silicon hairsprings that was responsible for the longer warranty period and service interval. As an example of a downside, because the co-axial escapement losing lubrication does not manifest itself in a change in performance, a co-axial escapement actually needs to be serviced according to the conservative service interval in order to ensure that excessive wear on the gear teeth does not happen. In contrast, with the traditional Swiss lever escapement, you can wait until the movement's accuracy changes before getting the watch serviced.


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## mg512

mleok said:


> It's obvious that Rolex acknowledges Omega as competition, why do you think they upgraded the 313X movements, improved the accuracy specification to +2/-2 spd, and increased the warranty period? Better that they do it with Tudor than Rolex, and it's clear that they're trying to position Tudor as their counterpoint to Omega. To be honest, that's a good move, as their cases and bracelets are very well made, and if they're able to compete on METAS certification, that would take the wind out of Omega's sails.
> 
> The co-axial escapement has no practical benefits (and quite a number of potential downsides) to the consumer, and it's really the use of silicon hairsprings that was responsible for the longer warranty period and service interval. As an example of a downside, because the co-axial escapement losing lubrication does not manifest itself in a change in performance, a co-axial escapement actually needs to be serviced according to the conservative service interval in order to ensure that excessive wear on the gear teeth does not happen. In contrast, with the traditional Swiss lever escapement, you can wait until the movement's accuracy changes before getting the watch serviced.


I thought they were a superlative chronometer long before Omega re-emerged from near bankruptcy. The 3135 is an exceptional movement that they rode for 3 decades. It's true that the coaxial escapement is so efficient that it doesn't have a feedback loop to tell the owner that its time for a service.

I like seeing Tudor step it up. It would be great if they would add a few more features on top of METAS to actually compete with Omega. These competitive changes are a tricky business though. If you improve your product too quickly you risk alienating customers who bought your product just last year. They could take a page out of Omega's book though and make parts such as adjustable clasps reverse compatible and affordably priced.

Right now with equivalent street prices you get more brand heritage, more innovation, better materials, better bracelet with Omega.


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## mleok

mg512 said:


> I thought they were a superlative chronometer long before Omega re-emerged from near bankruptcy. The 3135 is an exceptional movement that they rode for 3 decades. It's true that the coaxial escapement is so efficient that it doesn't have a feedback loop to tell the owner that its time for a service.
> 
> I like seeing Tudor step it up. It would be great if they would add a few more features on top of METAS to actually compete with Omega. These competitive changes are a tricky business though. If you improve your product too quickly you risk alienating customers who bought your product just last year. They could take a page out of Omega's book though and make parts such as adjustable clasps reverse compatible and affordably priced.
> 
> Right now with equivalent street prices you get more brand heritage, more innovation, better materials, better bracelet with Omega.


The Rolex +2/-2 spd standard and increased warranty period came after Omega introduced the 8500 caliber.


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## Pj66

Why would Tudor target Omega? Maybe Is Omega catching up to Rolex? I have both the Tudor and Omega and love them both but Tudor is still not in the same league. If they release a slate dial bronze 58 then I will definitely get one, the 43 was just too big for me.


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## mg512

mleok said:


> The Rolex +2/-2 spd standard and increased warranty period came after Omega introduced the 8500 caliber.


Thanks I learned something new. Is this when the hang tags changed from red to green?


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## mleok

mg512 said:


> Thanks I learned something new. Is this when the hang tags changed from red to green?


Yes, exactly.









Demystifying the Rolex Hang Tag Seals


Everest explains the difference between red and green Rolex seals, shows what a real Rolex caseback sticker should look like, and explains how to make sure your Rolex watch is authentic.




www.everestbands.com


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## longtimelurker

Interesting to see how people seem to definitely know what tudor, Omega and Rolex spend their time thinking about as singular entities in relation to each other. 

In reality, I doubt any of them (being successful companies) spend much time or thought on what the other is doing. Most companies don't waste energy on petty pot shots beyond their marketing departments, occasionally.

You definitely don't spend time developing alloys and tooling for products in the generally "serious" watch industry just to troll the flagship of a watch group with higher perception.

Trying to convince people you're as good as omega by trolling them while using the same performance standards would be moronic.


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## thx67

JustinMFrost said:


> Well, there's still the matter of the movement failures that Tudor was facing with its in-house calibers. There were a good number of them that went back and got new movements, based on what I've heard across the collecting community. I was just chatting with someone today whose 58 has gone out 30-sec a day. No brand will be perfect when you deal in the kind of volume that these guys deal in, but I wouldn't be so fast to give Tudor any kind of upper hand on quality/reliability over Omega.


The only Tudor movement that has/had known issues is the GMT which seems to have been resolved so I wouldn't write off all Tudors movements based on "what you've heard". If you want to use a forum to gauge watch reliability take a look at the Rolex forum. You might want to stay away from the new Rolex movements. In reality, you will be unlucky to have a problem with any modern Swiss watch.


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## Mickey®

meh.


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## mg512

longtimelurker said:


> Interesting to see how people seem to definitely know what tudor, Omega and Rolex spend their time thinking about as singular entities in relation to each other.
> 
> In reality, I doubt any of them (being successful companies) spend much time or thought on what the other is doing. Most companies don't waste energy on petty pot shots beyond their marketing departments, occasionally.
> 
> You definitely don't spend time developing alloys and tooling for products in the generally "serious" watch industry just to troll the flagship of a watch group with higher perception.
> 
> Trying to convince people you're as good as omega by trolling them while using the same performance standards would be moronic.


when I worked for AMD we definitely watched the competition and considered our features and performance as well as market perception in relation to them. When I worked for Apple we didn't really think much about the competition but focused on the customer. Except in our private meetings we absolutely benchmarked ourselves against the competition. And you might remember our "Hi I'm a Mac commercials". However when ina press conference we said we don't think much about them even though our advertising campaigns say otherwise. We also adjusted supply to meet demand.

I don't know of many industries where you don't attack your competition. Or at least manage your products and features to position yourself well and yes you do it even when you have the upper hand to reinforce to the consumer that you are on top.

Absolutely they think about one another. They wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't. But maybe you're right since the Wilsdorf foundation is actually a charity.?


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## longtimelurker

mg512 said:


> when I worked for AMD we definitely watched the competition and considered our features and performance as well as market perception in relation to them. When I worked for Apple we didn't really think much about the competition but focused on the customer. Except in our private meetings we absolutely benchmarked ourselves against the competition. And you might remember our "Hi I'm a Mac commercials". However when ina press conference we said we don't think much about them even though our advertising campaigns say otherwise. We also adjusted supply to meet demand.
> 
> I don't know of many industries where you don't attack your competition. Or at least manage your products and features to position yourself well and yes you do it even when you have the upper hand to reinforce to the consumer that you are on top.
> 
> Absolutely they think about one another. They wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't. But maybe you're right since the Wilsdorf foundation is actually a charity.?


My point was that whole companies don't worry about each other in the petty, trolling context to the degree that you start launching entire products for that purpose.

The advertising and marketing departments might, but Tudor would be doing a crappy job of highlighting it so far.

Competition of course requires awareness.


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## j1n

I honestly didn't even think about the gold silver bronze thing until you brought it up.


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## TJ Boogie

Tudor appears to be trolling themselves. Abhorrent gold/green, bronze (clasp unavailable for other 58’s), the silver’s nice - but will it tarnish even with the mix of metallurgy (only time will truly tell). If they were COSC and METAS, and the gold didn’t look like a 90’s lowrider, I might give some acclaim.


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## djwoblely

I've been waiting for Tudor to do a bronze bracelet for these since they started making the bronze line. I can't wait to try this out in person when they become available.


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## MARVEL

Tudor is letting Omega know METAS certification is not that had to achieve......



JustinMFrost said:


> It's been another big week for Tudor with the launch of the Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze-yet ANOTHER polarizing Black Bay release-but as I sat in Toronto's Tudor Boutique for a quick press preview another thought crossed my mind. Based on the year's releases, there's little doubt in my mind that Tudor clearly has Omega in the crosshairs this year. I'll get to that in a second, but first some quick impressions of this new bronze release. For many (myself included), the original 43mm Black Bay Bronze was simply too big. The standard 41mm case is already quite chunky, given its slab-sided profile, and at 43mm you had to have substantial wrists in order to pull it off comfortably. Scaled down to 39mm across, the new Fifty-Eight Bronze is much more versatile.
> 
> The biggest gripe thus far for those who are interested is the situation of availability, which has been a talking point in a number of threads already. Yes, the Fifty-Eight Bronze is "Boutique Only", which means North Americans can only get it though the Tudor boutique in Canada at this time. There's talk of an NYC boutique coming (though we haven't heard much on the topic as of yet), but that certainly makes life difficult for stateside Tudor fans. That said, you can easily try on a steel-cased Fifty-Eight for size, and just know that the watch will be a touch heavier.
> View attachment 15961325
> 
> The choice of a full bronze bracelet is an interesting one, and something that's quite scarce in the industry aside from the recent Oris Cotton Candy divers and a couple of releases from Zelos Watches. The Oris bracelet is fully bronze, whereas the Zelos bracelet links are backed with stainless steel in order to prevent any marking from wearing the bracelet on hot/humid days. Many have raised concerns over the risk of leaving "green marks" on the wrist from wearing a bronze bracelet, however I am not especially concerned. First, the Aluminum Bronze composition of Tudor's watches is much slower to patina than other watches which use more copper. Tudor also claims that their bronze is "stabilized", though they have not provided further information on this. Beyond this, I can attest that a good friend of mine has been wearing Oris' bronze bracelet out in the heat and humidity of Charleston, and though the watch itself is showing significant patina, there hasn't been the faintest mark left behind on his wrist.


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## WatchAddicted21

The watch does look stunning with the bezel and brown dial. I think it puts the others to shame. Tudor is definitely doing a good job with the new releases


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## mleok

MARVEL said:


> Tudor is letting Omega know METAS certification is not that had to achieve......


I think it's more about letting watch buyers know it's not that big deal that Omega makes it out to be.


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## mg512

MARVEL said:


> Tudor is letting Omega know METAS certification is not that had to achieve......


It isn't impossible obviously. But let's see them do it across their entire product line. Doing it with one watch and then patting yourself on the back is definitely trolling. If they were willing to make the upgrades to one watch and lower their profit margin on a single piece they don't expect to sell many of that would be trolling.


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## Ducatiride1

JustinMFrost said:


> It's been another big week for Tudor with the launch of the Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze-yet ANOTHER polarizing Black Bay release-but as I sat in Toronto's Tudor Boutique for a quick press preview another thought crossed my mind. Based on the year's releases, there's little doubt in my mind that Tudor clearly has Omega in the crosshairs this year. I'll get to that in a second, but first some quick impressions of this new bronze release. For many (myself included), the original 43mm Black Bay Bronze was simply too big. The standard 41mm case is already quite chunky, given its slab-sided profile, and at 43mm you had to have substantial wrists in order to pull it off comfortably. Scaled down to 39mm across, the new Fifty-Eight Bronze is much more versatile.
> 
> The biggest gripe thus far for those who are interested is the situation of availability, which has been a talking point in a number of threads already. Yes, the Fifty-Eight Bronze is "Boutique Only", which means North Americans can only get it though the Tudor boutique in Canada at this time. There's talk of an NYC boutique coming (though we haven't heard much on the topic as of yet), but that certainly makes life difficult for stateside Tudor fans. That said, you can easily try on a steel-cased Fifty-Eight for size, and just know that the watch will be a touch heavier.
> View attachment 15961325
> 
> The choice of a full bronze bracelet is an interesting one, and something that's quite scarce in the industry aside from the recent Oris Cotton Candy divers and a couple of releases from Zelos Watches. The Oris bracelet is fully bronze, whereas the Zelos bracelet links are backed with stainless steel in order to prevent any marking from wearing the bracelet on hot/humid days. Many have raised concerns over the risk of leaving "green marks" on the wrist from wearing a bronze bracelet, however I am not especially concerned. First, the Aluminum Bronze composition of Tudor's watches is much slower to patina than other watches which use more copper. Tudor also claims that their bronze is "stabilized", though they have not provided further information on this. Beyond this, I can attest that a good friend of mine has been wearing Oris' bronze bracelet out in the heat and humidity of Charleston, and though the watch itself is showing significant patina, there hasn't been the faintest mark left behind on his wrist.
> View attachment 15961335
> 
> Back to Tudor's bracelet, they've opted to stick with the rivet-style bracelet on this edition, with a new glide-lock clasp. The clasp is spring loaded, and easily adjusts into one of 5 position without fussing. The hope is that this clasp will migrate into the last of the Black Bay line, however there has been mention that Tudor is in no rush to do this. For a closer look at the clasp operation, have a look at the video we posted on Instagram on Wednesday. At this time the bronze model is only available on bracelet, and is sold with the matching brown fabric strap to swap out to as desired.
> View attachment 15961347
> 
> On the dial and elsewhere there isn't much new to report, nor is there in terms of its caliber. The new Bronze model doesn't carry the METAS certification that was seen on the Black Bay Ceramic that launched earlier this year. Its dial spots the same 3-6-9 Explorer-style layout, with a subtle dégradé fade to it.
> View attachment 15961359
> 
> Now, to get back to my opening point, what is Tudor getting at here? In an Olympic year, where Omega remains the official timing partner/sponsor of the Olympics as they have for decades and decades, Tudor goes out of their way to launch new Black Bay models in Gold, Silver, and Bronze? This on its own someone "could" try and pass off as a coincidence, but silver is an extremely obscure material to try to use as a watch case, and I don't think that anyone could argue that there was really any kind of demand for a gold-cased Black Bay enough to justify its release. The two brands are close competitors in many respects, much more than Rolex and Omega compete these days(much to Omega's chagrin). While some Omega and Rolex models go head-to-head in terms of specs, Omega and Tudor compete based on availability/accessibility. Tudor wants to broaden their market appeal, and trying to sneak into the room as the high quality/more affordable alternative to Omega is a smart play, all while leveraging the Rolex connection.
> View attachment 15961391
> 
> While the gold/silver/bronze logic will smell like conspiracy theory to some, the other factor that plays into this ulterior motive is Tudor's move to get METAS certification for the Black Bay Ceramic. METAS has long been Omega's answer to COSC and Rolex's "Superlative Chronometer" certification, and the news from Tudor really came as a surprise-a quick middle finger to Omega, and independent validation of the capabilities of Tudor's in-house calibers. Given Tudor's connection to Rolex and the notoriety of Superlative Chronometer status, Tudor could have easily spun up its own testing and certification process, but instead they went after the one big independent testing service that has mostly only ever been used by Omega. If that's not a little suspect, I don't know what is.
> View attachment 15961403
> 
> Whatever the real agenda is, these last few moves from Tudor are interesting to say the least. Will we see the glide-lock clasp trickle down through the model range? Will we see more METAS certified calibers? How is that bizarre silver case actually going to age? Will anyone ever buy a gold Tudor Black Bay? I guess time will tell.
> 
> *See More of the Tudor Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze*


This is why I joined watchuseek. What can you say about that analysis? Spot on and eloquently stated. Tudor also took direct aim at the Speedmaster with its' new competively priced chrono.

Great comment/article. Thank you.

Matt


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## KissTone

Bronze? I guess I'm too hidebound to see such a colorway as desirable . . . though I'm sure plenty of folks will love it.

(I finally got my hands on a 58 in the flesh last week at an AD in Florida. I _thought_ it was the next watch I had to have, but after seeing it on my wrist I just didn't dig it all that much. I actually bought a another Seiko instead (the SPB145).


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## mg512

If we work on the theory that Tudor is a way for Rolex to test out new ideas rapidly before committing their flagship to them or to subtly hint to us upcoming changes then maybe Rolex is working on upgrading their movements to be METAS capable. They will then subsume METAS standards into the Superlative Chronometer designation and change the hang tag color. Then the entire Tudor line up is Master Chronometer. At that point if Omega doesn’t pick up the pace then it’s a fait accompli expertly executed by Rolex to dispatch the competition.


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## BundyBear

mg512 said:


> If we work on the theory that Tudor is a way for Rolex to test out new ideas rapidly before committing their flagship to them or to subtly hint to us upcoming changes then maybe Rolex is working on upgrading their movements to be METAS capable. They will then subsume METAS standards into the Superlative Chronometer designation and change the hang tag color. Then the entire Tudor line up is Master Chronometer. At that point if Omega doesn't pick up the pace then it's a fait accompli expertly executed by Rolex to dispatch the competition.


I think you may be on to something here @mg512 - what you said definitely makes some sense and as they say, only time will tell.


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## mg512

BundyBear said:


> I think you may be on to something here @mg512 - what you said definitely makes some sense and as they say, only time will tell.


And @mleok pointed out the changes to superlative chronometer certification once Omega launched their METAS certification. Also we have past examples of Rolex keeping their 3135 movement but updating the spring to a Parachrom bleu version. So a change in materials may not need a change in architecture and they can slip it in without updating their model lineup. Perhaps a M designation like the 14060 got?


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## mg512

But honestly guys all I want for Christmas is for Tudor to make their GMT in BB58 proportions and put a T clasp on it. As a bonus they could drop the rivets. As a necessity they definitively prove that the date skip bug is fixed. It's still an open issue in my mind as we have WIS around these parts with recent examples of failure in that regard.


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## BundyBear

mg512 said:


> And @mleok pointed out the changes to superlative chronometer certification once Omega launched their METAS certification. Also we have past examples of Rolex keeping their 3135 movement but updating the spring to a Parachrom bleu version. So a change in materials may not need a change in architecture and they can slip it in without updating their model lineup. Perhaps a M designation like the 14060 got?


Makes sense!


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## GazzSteiko

Anybody else watch Uptick Watch Reviews on YouTube? He bought the BB ceramic on release, one month later and it's dead....


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## AMarkAbove

It's pretty well agreed upon it takes years to bring a new production to launch so it's safe to assume that these models were always targeted to release this year when development started, which kinda blows the Olympics angle out of the water, no?


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## watchbobby

I was looking over the Tudor list of boutiques where this model is only available and it appears that Tudor doesn't think that we in the good'ole U.S.of A. are worthy of this watch. Shame.


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## Nippero

Its interesting that the majority of people see Tudor embracing METAS as a negative to Omega.

I feel like its more of an affirmation that METAS and the Master Chronometer standard is "real".

Its only a threat or negative to Omega if Tudor manages to make their entire lineup Master Chronometers while keeping the same price.

In terms of Tudor's new releases... They're all kind of interesting but I'd be hesitant to buy them for various reasons
1. Brass version: unclear how this will patina since its a brand new alloy from Tudor
2. Silver version: same patina concern + the display case back is showing off a fairly boring movement.. entirely unnecessary
3. Gold version: No real issue with this one, but just not my aesthetic taste
4. Ceramic version: Glad they actually made some aesthetic changes to the movement being shown off. Will be interesting to see how durable Tudor's ceramic case is considering how cheap it is in comparison to Omega. Not sure how I feel about the execution of details and the aesthetics.

I really really like how the Silver looks with the taupe color but the question of how it will patina holds me back.


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## Steeltown

I really like my Tudor, and I love what they are doing overall with their styles, but IMHO Omega is superior


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## bagle

Really like the full bronze bracelet. Looks clean!


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## sjb3

They have done such a good job with this line. It’s so much variety from really anything else out there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vasiforlife

thx67 said:


> I love their 2021 releases. They put Rolex to shame although this years Rolex offerings were especially poor. Dont get me started on the new Explorer ii. The Meta rating for the ceramic model was a strange move when they didnt follow it up with the rating on the bronze version. I have a feeling Tudor are going to see a large price hike over the next couple of years. Their nearest competitor for the BB would probably be the Seamaster and its currently about £1000 more than the equivalent BB so the BB lineup could quite easily take a price hike and still be great value. I hope they dont do this but we know that the house of Rolex knows a thing or two about selling watches. The new Tudor watches are very hard to get at the moment. I even had one dealer mention "spend history" when I enquired about a BB Chrono.
> 
> With regards to the metas rating. I think its a bit of marketing. Tudors movements are always top notch and very accurate. Even the early eta BBs were very accurate. My BB GMT is as accurate as my Rolex. No extra certification needed. Im not saying METAS is a waste of time. I own 2 METAS omegas and both perform very well. I guess its nice to have but it wouldn't stop me or push me towards buying a watch.


I would like to ask this group for some more opinions on the METAS. Specifically I'm wondering if the benefits of 15,000 gauss magnetic resistance is worth the wait/price increase over something with a silicon hairspring? How much magnetic field will a watch with a silicon hairspring withstand? I believe Ball has a watch with a silicon hairspring that they state is anti-magnetic to 2500 gauss, but I don't know if that's representative of Tudor or others... Short of being near an MRI machine while it's running, will I ever come into contact with 2500 gauss? Even in the area of an MRI, my understanding is that distance greatly reduces the magnetic field. How close would a person have to be to an MRI machine to experience fields greater than 2500 gauss?

Are there really any other significant benefits to the METAS certification from other watches in Tudor's lineup?


----------



## mg512

METAS certifies the watch is between 0-5 seconds per day accurate. That it is accurate at 100% wind down to 33% reserve power. And it happens after the movement is put into the watch case. COSC is -4 to +6 seconds per day. Not magnetism testing and before the movement is put in the watch Tudor watches are COSC certified except for the double black. Also more than just the hair spring has to be anti magnetic to achieve immunity to fields as high as 15000 Gauss. Watches get magnetized all of the time. It’s probably the number one fault watchmakers see on watches less than five years old.


----------



## SCAQTony

Omega has James Bond, the Olympics, and the moon landing. The Tudor watches are beautiful, but they have no "genre" save for being a fascinating and sexy-beast of a dive watch. When the watch-buying public starts looking for a dive watch after watching the Olympics, Tudor may outshine them alone on their design aesthetics, but I am not so sure they will harm mega in any way. As for Rolex, a genre watch for rich people, the only reason I want a Rolex GMT Explorer is because Robin Knox Johnson wore one when he became the first person to solo sail around the world in a boat he built himself named Suhaili.


----------



## time–>

The silver will eventually patina to a near black most likely. Might be interesting.


----------



## Makhdoom

Rolex is stuck making watches that are the Rolex way, If they do a co-axial or a METAS then that is not the Rolex way. But they figure Tudor can, so Tudor will. But Tudor is not Omega nor Rolex. If you want a brand that hits hard and is METAS then you buy Omega and not a wannabe Rolex. Because if you want Rolex then only a Rolex will do, and a METAS Tudor is not an Omega. Only an Omega scratches that Omega itch.


----------



## OldiesBatavia

Brandonboyle said:


> i think it looks stunning


They are! Especially the green one for me.


----------



## mleok

Makhdoom said:


> Rolex is stuck making watches that are the Rolex way, If they do a co-axial or a METAS then that is not the Rolex way. But they figure Tudor can, so Tudor will. But Tudor is not Omega nor Rolex. If you want a brand that hits hard and is METAS then you buy Omega and not a wannabe Rolex. Because if you want Rolex then only a Rolex will do, and a METAS Tudor is not an Omega. Only an Omega scratches that Omega itch.


Omega itch? With the possible exception of a Speedmaster Professional, is there truly such a thing?


----------



## JLittle

mleok said:


> Omega itch? With the possible exception of a Speedmaster Professional, is there truly such a thing?


Well, I have three, and none are the Speedmaster, so...yeah....


----------



## JLittle

Makhdoom said:


> Rolex is stuck making watches that are the Rolex way, If they do a co-axial or a METAS then that is not the Rolex way. But they figure Tudor can, so Tudor will. But Tudor is not Omega nor Rolex. If you want a brand that hits hard and is METAS then you buy Omega and not a wannabe Rolex. Because if you want Rolex then only a Rolex will do, and a METAS Tudor is not an Omega. Only an Omega scratches that Omega itch.


Rolex makes the same watches over and over and throws a curveball like the Milgauss and Palm Fronds every now and then...


----------



## mleok

JLittle said:


> Well, I have three, and none are the Speedmaster, so...yeah....


Okay, I have a Watchco assembled Omega Seamaster 300, but it's because I like the watch design, not because I had an itch for an Omega. Do people actually have an itch for an Omega as a brand, as opposed to specific Omega watches?


----------



## JLittle

mleok said:


> Okay, I have a Watchco assembled Omega Seamaster 300, but it's because I like the watch design, not because I had an itch for an Omega. Do people actually have an itch for an Omega as a brand, as opposed to specific Omega watches?


Yes, I LOVE Omegas. EASILY my favorite brand. There are a few more I want. Doubt I'll get them, but want them.

Maybe for very well off people who can afford them easily, there's no itch, but for those of us who aren't and have to save/budget, yeah, definite itch.

I also have an A. Lange & Sohne itch, but I can't buy that yet, so I use a topical cream instead...


----------



## Makhdoom

mleok said:


> Omega itch? With the possible exception of a Speedmaster Professional, is there truly such a thing?


Did I say an Omega itch, sorry I meant an Omega addiction.


----------



## Makhdoom

mleok said:


> Okay, I have a Watchco assembled Omega Seamaster 300, but it's because I like the watch design, not because I had an itch for an Omega. Do people actually have an itch for an Omega as a brand, as opposed to specific Omega watches?


Do people have an itch for a Rolex even though it's a Cellini?


----------



## Sana Ullah

Great looking watches


----------



## Cartwheel

longtimelurker said:


> Interesting to see how people seem to definitely know what tudor, Omega and Rolex spend their time thinking about as singular entities in relation to each other.
> 
> In reality, I doubt any of them (being successful companies) spend much time or thought on what the other is doing. Most companies don't waste energy on petty pot shots beyond their marketing departments, occasionally.
> 
> You definitely don't spend time developing alloys and tooling for products in the generally "serious" watch industry just to troll the flagship of a watch group with higher perception.
> 
> Trying to convince people you're as good as omega by trolling them while using the same performance standards would be moronic.


Agree on this. This kind of brands are way more worried about their target "cautive" customers than the competitors. Tudor is going faster than Omega and way more faster than Rolex. This is not going to be an easy decade for the crown, imho. They basically lost the excitement and only the drama remains. 
Tudor is capitalizing on the Rolex legend but at the same time kicking ass pushing with all the novelties. If they only ditch Becks and Gaga. Ugh.


----------



## DrSlamastika

wonderfull model ! I will need some in the far future


----------



## mleok

longtimelurker said:


> Interesting to see how people seem to definitely know what tudor, Omega and Rolex spend their time thinking about as singular entities in relation to each other.
> 
> In reality, I doubt any of them (being successful companies) spend much time or thought on what the other is doing. Most companies don't waste energy on petty pot shots beyond their marketing departments, occasionally.
> 
> You definitely don't spend time developing alloys and tooling for products in the generally "serious" watch industry just to troll the flagship of a watch group with higher perception.
> 
> Trying to convince people you're as good as omega by trolling them while using the same performance standards would be moronic.


Targeting the METAS certification isn't a "petty pot shot," it's targeting a specific marketing point that Omega employs. As I've mentioned before, Rolex and Omega clearly compete, and have released products, or improved their warranty, accuracy specification, or product specifications in response to competitive advantages in the other brand's products, and anyone who believes that successful companies don't spend time thinking and responding to what their competition does has no idea how a successful business is run. Honestly, the main issues I see with Seiko and Grand Seiko have precisely to do with the fact that they seem to have lost touch with the current competitive landscape that their products are operating in.

Even if one considers Apple, one only has to look at the introduction to Mac OS X, the shift from Power PC to Intel, and the shift from Intel to Apple Silicon to see that even Apple takes into account the competitive landscape, even if their response might be about changing the conversation entirely as opposed to a point by point rebuttal.


----------



## longtimelurker

mleok said:


> Targeting the METAS certification isn't a "petty pot shot," it's targeting a specific marketing point that Omega employs. As I've mentioned before, Rolex and Omega clearly compete, and have released products, or improved their warranty, accuracy specification, or product specifications in response to competitive advantages in the other brand's products, and anyone who believes that successful companies don't spend time thinking and responding to what their competition does has no idea how a successful business is run. Honestly, the main issues I see with Seiko and Grand Seiko have precisely to do with the fact that they seem to have lost touch with the current competitive landscape that their products are operating in.
> 
> Even if one considers Apple, one only has to look at the introduction to Mac OS X, the shift from Power PC to Intel, and the shift from Intel to Apple Silicon to see that even Apple takes into account the competitive landscape, even if their response might be about changing the conversation entirely as opposed to a point by point rebuttal.


Didn't say METAS was a pot shot. Referring to the conspiracy of Tudor's Olympic trolling.

Talking about tudor, not rolex.

Anyone who thinks that's what I meant is either being dense or doesn't understand the context. Again, talking about the "trolling" aspect. Literally the title of the OP. Wouldn't think I would have to explain it /spell it out. Talk about missing the point...

Of course you have to respond to competition. But if tudor is trying to troll omega, they are seriously sucking at it. So badly, that I would almost guarantee that's not what they are doing.

So all your examples are to support a point that no one is questioning.


----------



## mleok

longtimelurker said:


> Didn't say METAS was a pot shot. Referring to the conspiracy of Tudor's Olympic trolling.
> 
> Talking about tudor, not rolex.
> 
> Anyone who thinks that's what I meant is either being dense or doesn't understand the context. Again, talking about the "trolling" aspect. Literally the title of the OP. Wouldn't think I would have to explain it /spell it out. Talk about missing the point...
> 
> Of course you have to respond to competition. But if tudor is trying to troll omega, they are seriously sucking at it. So badly, that I would almost guarantee that's not what they are doing.
> 
> So all your examples are to support a point that no one is questioning.


The original post in this thread points to two aspects in which Tudor has ostensibly targeted Omega, one having to do with the Olympic theme, and the other is the METAS certification. If you were limiting your point to the Olympic trolling, your post did nothing to indicate that. In particular, this statement "in reality, I doubt any of them (being successful companies) spend much time or thought on what the other is doing," does not suggest that you were limiting your point to the issue of Tudor releasing gold, silver, and bronze Black Bays as an attempt to troll Omega.


----------



## longtimelurker

mleok said:


> The original post in this thread points to two aspects in which Tudor has ostensibly targeted Omega, one having to do with the Olympic theme, and the other is the METAS certification. If you were limiting your point to the Olympic trolling, your post did nothing to indicate that. In particular, this statement "in reality, I doubt any of them (being successful companies) spend much time or thought on what the other is doing," does not suggest that you were limiting your point to the issue of Tudor releasing gold, silver, and bronze Black Bays as an attempt to troll Omega.


That's why I said I didn't think I needed to spell it out, but apparently I did.


----------



## mleok

longtimelurker said:


> That's why I said I didn't think I needed to spell it out, but apparently I did.


Some people read the entire post, instead of just the title of the thread...


----------



## longtimelurker

mleok said:


> Some people read the entire post, instead of just the title of the thread...


I read the entire post. And I responded to the general motif of it. I can do this all day, but you're the one who can't accept a simple clarification.


----------



## mleok

longtimelurker said:


> I read the entire post. And I responded to the general motif of it. I can do this all day, but you're the one who can't accept a simple clarification.


You're the one who has a problem getting called out that your post was ambigious, not to mention passive aggressive.


----------



## longtimelurker

mleok said:


> You're the one who has a problem getting called out that your post was ambigious, not to mention passive aggressive.


I literally offered the clarification to your response. I tho it was clear and admitted as much. Then you had to keep on pointing out that it was ambigious.... Over and over. Yeah, I got it. You didn't know what I was talking about, specifically.

And hows "has no idea how a successful business is run" foe kickoff in passive-aggressive?

Your turn.


----------



## mleok

longtimelurker said:


> I literally offered the clarification to your response. I tho it was clear and admitted as much. Then you had to keep on pointing out that it was ambigious.... Over and over. Yeah, I got it. You didn't know what I was talking about, specifically.
> 
> And hows "has no idea how a successful business is run" foe kickoff in passive-aggressive?
> 
> Your turn.


Going after METAS certification could arguably be Tudor trolling Omega, since no other brand uses METAS certification at the moment. Most of the discussion in the thread was on METAS certification, as opposed to the gold/silver/bronze conspiracy theory which you claim was obviously what you were referring to unless one was "being dense or doesn't understand the context."

But, more to the point, things like METAS certification and the co-axial escapement were developed so that Omega could market itself as being superior to its competition, and price itself accordingly. So, if you don't like the term "trolling," you can still view Tudor's move as a way to position itself as being a direct competitor to Omega in one of its major selling points, which is an agressive move, since Omega would probably consider Rolex (and not Tudor) to be its direct competitor.


----------



## longtimelurker

mleok said:


> Most of the discussion in the thread was on METAS certification, as opposed to the gold/silver/bronze conspiracy theory which you claim was obviously what you were referring to unless one was "being dense or doesn't understand the context."


Okay, so it wasn't obvious to you. Got it. Still thought the third paragraph of my first post would have been context enough. But apparently it wasn't. Got it. 
Are you going to point out how my post wasn't clear to you for a fourth or fifth time? I don't know what it is you're trying to accomplish. If you clue me in, maybe I can get there quicker?


----------



## mleok

longtimelurker said:


> Okay, so it wasn't obvious to you. Got it. Still thought the third paragraph of my first post would have been context enough. But apparently it wasn't. Got it.
> Are you going to point out how my post wasn't clear to you for a fourth or fifth time? I don't know what it is you're trying to accomplish. If you clue me in, maybe I can get there quicker?


Never mind. Carry on being a jerk about it.


----------



## longtimelurker

mleok said:


> Going after METAS certification could arguably be Tudor trolling Omega, since no other brand uses METAS certification at the moment. Most of the discussion in the thread was on METAS certification, as opposed to the gold/silver/bronze conspiracy theory which you claim was obviously what you were referring to unless one was "being dense or doesn't understand the context."
> 
> But, more to the point, things like METAS certification and the co-axial escapement were developed so that Omega could market itself as being superior to its competition, and price itself accordingly. So, if you don't like the term "trolling," you can still view Tudor's move as a way to position itself as being a direct competitor to Omega in one of its major selling points, which is an agressive move, since Omega would probably consider Rolex (and not Tudor) to be its direct competitor.


Competitive attempt, sure. 
Trolling, which has some sort of antagonistic- ridicule connotation? No way. I mean, you don't make your competitor look stupid by adopting the same standard. Unless you are ceding/acknowledging that your brand should be making inferior watches. Which I don't think is any sort of successful marketing strategy.


----------



## mleok

longtimelurker said:


> Competitive attempt, sure.
> Trolling, which has some sort of antagonistic- ridicule connotation? No way. I mean, you don't make your competitor look stupid by adopting the same standard. Unless you are ceding/acknowledging that your brand should be making inferior watches. Which I don't think is any sort of successful marketing strategy.


Well, it is a trolling that Tudor is the one meeting the challenge, as opposed to Rolex. It sets Tudor as the direct competitor to Omega, and since Rolex is superior to Tudor, it reaffirms Rolex's superior position to Omega.


----------



## mudmud

Trolling or not, it's certainly suceeded in generating publicity, so it's a win for them.


----------



## Chris24

mudmud said:


> Trolling or not, it's certainly suceeded in generating publicity, so it's a win for them.


Agree with you!


----------



## Colonel_Sanders

mleok said:


> Well, it is a trolling that Tudor is the one meeting the challenge, as opposed to Rolex. It sets Tudor as the direct competitor to Omega, and since Rolex is superior to Tudor, it reaffirms Rolex's superior position to Omega.


Agree 100%


----------



## TXDirt

Case in point. I've started saving for my first substantial watch purchase. I was pretty solid that it would be a Ball, or if I saved longer an Omega... but the past 6-12 months I've added Tudor to my list of watches that I'd like to own when I get the cash together as I'm seeing them more regularly and they have models that I really like in the Black Bay line.


----------



## Dukeblue

Such a good article. I haven’t even thought about the Olympic and Tudor/omega comparisons


----------



## bielwatches

Tudor is giving Rolex a run for their money for sure.... Gone are the days where Tudor was hidden in Rolex's shadow. They are breaking out. Currently wearing the Tudor Pepsi GMT and I cant stop staring at it.


----------



## f1tothe50

I used to be in love with the bronze series, but I feel like this is just a fad and an excellent marketing campaign. While scrolling for second hand, and much more affordable, bronze series pieces, I quickly fell out of love with how different and inconsistent these pieces fade or patina. No longer my cup of tea, onto a Pelagos for me! Cheers


----------



## djgallo

Great Tudor article! Tudor bronze is the Bomb!


----------



## JLittle

Not a fan of bronze, but dig this one.


----------



## edengrill

Roningrad said:


> On the adjustable clasp, definitely agree on this.
> 
> Omega... a watch that wants to dethrone Rolex... The want is definitely there. Why wouldn't they? I suppose it appears to be Tudor is the little brother blindsiding Omega. Two to one.


I like that analogy


----------



## platinumderby

Tudor is nice watch!
I want to get this!!


----------



## Canadian_Kyle

Both Omega and Tudor have watches that I like and don't. I have to say me favorites from Tudor are still the Black Shields though.


----------



## JLittle

Canadian_Kyle said:


> Both Omega and Tudor have watches that I like and don't. I have to say me favorites from Tudor are still the Black Shields though.


Black shields?


----------



## GeekCred

Omega and Tudor are the two most exciting brands at the moment in terms of innovation. I want to see Tudor make more bracelets that match these new case materials, and make everything Metas certified (I think the latter is definitely coming).


----------



## JLittle

disregard, already said that in this thread.


----------



## kjc28

The silver one is my favorite. By far.


----------



## kali doberman

JustinMFrost said:


> It's been another big week for Tudor with the launch of the Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze-yet ANOTHER polarizing Black Bay release-but as I sat in Toronto's Tudor Boutique for a quick press preview another thought crossed my mind. Based on the year's releases, there's little doubt in my mind that Tudor clearly has Omega in the crosshairs this year. I'll get to that in a second, but first some quick impressions of this new bronze release. For many (myself included), the original 43mm Black Bay Bronze was simply too big. The standard 41mm case is already quite chunky, given its slab-sided profile, and at 43mm you had to have substantial wrists in order to pull it off comfortably. Scaled down to 39mm across, the new Fifty-Eight Bronze is much more versatile.
> 
> The biggest gripe thus far for those who are interested is the situation of availability, which has been a talking point in a number of threads already. Yes, the Fifty-Eight Bronze is "Boutique Only", which means North Americans can only get it though the Tudor boutique in Canada at this time. There's talk of an NYC boutique coming (though we haven't heard much on the topic as of yet), but that certainly makes life difficult for stateside Tudor fans. That said, you can easily try on a steel-cased Fifty-Eight for size, and just know that the watch will be a touch heavier.
> View attachment 15961325
> 
> The choice of a full bronze bracelet is an interesting one, and something that's quite scarce in the industry aside from the recent Oris Cotton Candy divers and a couple of releases from Zelos Watches. The Oris bracelet is fully bronze, whereas the Zelos bracelet links are backed with stainless steel in order to prevent any marking from wearing the bracelet on hot/humid days. Many have raised concerns over the risk of leaving "green marks" on the wrist from wearing a bronze bracelet, however I am not especially concerned. First, the Aluminum Bronze composition of Tudor's watches is much slower to patina than other watches which use more copper. Tudor also claims that their bronze is "stabilized", though they have not provided further information on this. Beyond this, I can attest that a good friend of mine has been wearing Oris' bronze bracelet out in the heat and humidity of Charleston, and though the watch itself is showing significant patina, there hasn't been the faintest mark left behind on his wrist.
> View attachment 15961335
> 
> Back to Tudor's bracelet, they've opted to stick with the rivet-style bracelet on this edition, with a new glide-lock clasp. The clasp is spring loaded, and easily adjusts into one of 5 position without fussing. The hope is that this clasp will migrate into the last of the Black Bay line, however there has been mention that Tudor is in no rush to do this. For a closer look at the clasp operation, have a look at the video we posted on Instagram on Wednesday. At this time the bronze model is only available on bracelet, and is sold with the matching brown fabric strap to swap out to as desired.
> View attachment 15961347
> 
> On the dial and elsewhere there isn't much new to report, nor is there in terms of its caliber. The new Bronze model doesn't carry the METAS certification that was seen on the Black Bay Ceramic that launched earlier this year. Its dial spots the same 3-6-9 Explorer-style layout, with a subtle dégradé fade to it.
> View attachment 15961359
> 
> Now, to get back to my opening point, what is Tudor getting at here? In an Olympic year, where Omega remains the official timing partner/sponsor of the Olympics as they have for decades and decades, Tudor goes out of their way to launch new Black Bay models in Gold, Silver, and Bronze? This on its own someone "could" try and pass off as a coincidence, but silver is an extremely obscure material to try to use as a watch case, and I don't think that anyone could argue that there was really any kind of demand for a gold-cased Black Bay enough to justify its release. The two brands are close competitors in many respects, much more than Rolex and Omega compete these days(much to Omega's chagrin). While some Omega and Rolex models go head-to-head in terms of specs, Omega and Tudor compete based on availability/accessibility. Tudor wants to broaden their market appeal, and trying to sneak into the room as the high quality/more affordable alternative to Omega is a smart play, all while leveraging the Rolex connection.
> View attachment 15961391
> 
> While the gold/silver/bronze logic will smell like conspiracy theory to some, the other factor that plays into this ulterior motive is Tudor's move to get METAS certification for the Black Bay Ceramic. METAS has long been Omega's answer to COSC and Rolex's "Superlative Chronometer" certification, and the news from Tudor really came as a surprise-a quick middle finger to Omega, and independent validation of the capabilities of Tudor's in-house calibers. Given Tudor's connection to Rolex and the notoriety of Superlative Chronometer status, Tudor could have easily spun up its own testing and certification process, but instead they went after the one big independent testing service that has mostly only ever been used by Omega. If that's not a little suspect, I don't know what is.
> View attachment 15961403
> 
> Whatever the real agenda is, these last few moves from Tudor are interesting to say the least. Will we see the glide-lock clasp trickle down through the model range? Will we see more METAS certified calibers? How is that bizarre silver case actually going to age? Will anyone ever buy a gold Tudor Black Bay? I guess time will tell.
> 
> *See More of the Tudor Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze*


The tats go well with the Tudor's.


----------



## KRONO TIMEPIECES

Sharp looking. Nice pieces! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dlmypr

First of all thanks for this review, I really enjoyed it. I agree with many comments here that Tudor and Omega are not in the same league. Many might think as Omega is catching up to Rolex, Tudor also needs to elevate, which sounds like a strategy I wouldn't actually take if I was Rolex. We have seen this example in Automotive, VW group wanted to invest more in Skoda's to steal the market share of KIA Group which was increasing rapidly. Skoda became sooo good, it actually stole the market share from VW =)


----------



## XquisiteTimepieces

JustinMFrost said:


> It's been another big week for Tudor with the launch of the Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze-yet ANOTHER polarizing Black Bay release-but as I sat in Toronto's Tudor Boutique for a quick press preview another thought crossed my mind. Based on the year's releases, there's little doubt in my mind that Tudor clearly has Omega in the crosshairs this year. I'll get to that in a second, but first some quick impressions of this new bronze release. For many (myself included), the original 43mm Black Bay Bronze was simply too big. The standard 41mm case is already quite chunky, given its slab-sided profile, and at 43mm you had to have substantial wrists in order to pull it off comfortably. Scaled down to 39mm across, the new Fifty-Eight Bronze is much more versatile.
> 
> The biggest gripe thus far for those who are interested is the situation of availability, which has been a talking point in a number of threads already. Yes, the Fifty-Eight Bronze is "Boutique Only", which means North Americans can only get it though the Tudor boutique in Canada at this time. There's talk of an NYC boutique coming (though we haven't heard much on the topic as of yet), but that certainly makes life difficult for stateside Tudor fans. That said, you can easily try on a steel-cased Fifty-Eight for size, and just know that the watch will be a touch heavier.
> View attachment 15961325
> 
> The choice of a full bronze bracelet is an interesting one, and something that's quite scarce in the industry aside from the recent Oris Cotton Candy divers and a couple of releases from Zelos Watches. The Oris bracelet is fully bronze, whereas the Zelos bracelet links are backed with stainless steel in order to prevent any marking from wearing the bracelet on hot/humid days. Many have raised concerns over the risk of leaving "green marks" on the wrist from wearing a bronze bracelet, however I am not especially concerned. First, the Aluminum Bronze composition of Tudor's watches is much slower to patina than other watches which use more copper. Tudor also claims that their bronze is "stabilized", though they have not provided further information on this. Beyond this, I can attest that a good friend of mine has been wearing Oris' bronze bracelet out in the heat and humidity of Charleston, and though the watch itself is showing significant patina, there hasn't been the faintest mark left behind on his wrist.
> View attachment 15961335
> 
> Back to Tudor's bracelet, they've opted to stick with the rivet-style bracelet on this edition, with a new glide-lock clasp. The clasp is spring loaded, and easily adjusts into one of 5 position without fussing. The hope is that this clasp will migrate into the last of the Black Bay line, however there has been mention that Tudor is in no rush to do this. For a closer look at the clasp operation, have a look at the video we posted on Instagram on Wednesday. At this time the bronze model is only available on bracelet, and is sold with the matching brown fabric strap to swap out to as desired.
> View attachment 15961347
> 
> On the dial and elsewhere there isn't much new to report, nor is there in terms of its caliber. The new Bronze model doesn't carry the METAS certification that was seen on the Black Bay Ceramic that launched earlier this year. Its dial spots the same 3-6-9 Explorer-style layout, with a subtle dégradé fade to it.
> View attachment 15961359
> 
> Now, to get back to my opening point, what is Tudor getting at here? In an Olympic year, where Omega remains the official timing partner/sponsor of the Olympics as they have for decades and decades, Tudor goes out of their way to launch new Black Bay models in Gold, Silver, and Bronze? This on its own someone "could" try and pass off as a coincidence, but silver is an extremely obscure material to try to use as a watch case, and I don't think that anyone could argue that there was really any kind of demand for a gold-cased Black Bay enough to justify its release. The two brands are close competitors in many respects, much more than Rolex and Omega compete these days(much to Omega's chagrin). While some Omega and Rolex models go head-to-head in terms of specs, Omega and Tudor compete based on availability/accessibility. Tudor wants to broaden their market appeal, and trying to sneak into the room as the high quality/more affordable alternative to Omega is a smart play, all while leveraging the Rolex connection.
> View attachment 15961391
> 
> While the gold/silver/bronze logic will smell like conspiracy theory to some, the other factor that plays into this ulterior motive is Tudor's move to get METAS certification for the Black Bay Ceramic. METAS has long been Omega's answer to COSC and Rolex's "Superlative Chronometer" certification, and the news from Tudor really came as a surprise-a quick middle finger to Omega, and independent validation of the capabilities of Tudor's in-house calibers. Given Tudor's connection to Rolex and the notoriety of Superlative Chronometer status, Tudor could have easily spun up its own testing and certification process, but instead they went after the one big independent testing service that has mostly only ever been used by Omega. If that's not a little suspect, I don't know what is.
> View attachment 15961403
> 
> Whatever the real agenda is, these last few moves from Tudor are interesting to say the least. Will we see the glide-lock clasp trickle down through the model range? Will we see more METAS certified calibers? How is that bizarre silver case actually going to age? Will anyone ever buy a gold Tudor Black Bay? I guess time will tell.
> 
> *See More of the Tudor Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze*


Either way, pretty beautiful😍.


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## chrisvett97

tudor and omega are both timeless brands with timeless watches to offer, but i dont see tudor ever coming out with anything with as much class as any omega watch. dont @ me did yall see that speedmaster chrono chime??? that piece is CLASS


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## tony.wtz

Great article! I would love to own one.


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## Apeaaa

That’s an absolute beaut!!!


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## Bryan Rushes

I definitely dig it


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## sumeet95

Looks like it


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## WoundDownRN

Brandonboyle said:


> i think it looks stunning


I agree! I think that the patina over time will be interesting!


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## WoundDownRN

I think that both the size, color scheme and material make it a very interesting piece to look at.


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## ADMartin

JustinMFrost said:


> It's been another big week for Tudor with the launch of the Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze-yet ANOTHER polarizing Black Bay release-but as I sat in Toronto's Tudor Boutique for a quick press preview another thought crossed my mind. Based on the year's releases, there's little doubt in my mind that Tudor clearly has Omega in the crosshairs this year. I'll get to that in a second, but first some quick impressions of this new bronze release. For many (myself included), the original 43mm Black Bay Bronze was simply too big. The standard 41mm case is already quite chunky, given its slab-sided profile, and at 43mm you had to have substantial wrists in order to pull it off comfortably. Scaled down to 39mm across, the new Fifty-Eight Bronze is much more versatile.
> 
> The biggest gripe thus far for those who are interested is the situation of availability, which has been a talking point in a number of threads already. Yes, the Fifty-Eight Bronze is "Boutique Only", which means North Americans can only get it though the Tudor boutique in Canada at this time. There's talk of an NYC boutique coming (though we haven't heard much on the topic as of yet), but that certainly makes life difficult for stateside Tudor fans. That said, you can easily try on a steel-cased Fifty-Eight for size, and just know that the watch will be a touch heavier.
> View attachment 15961325
> 
> The choice of a full bronze bracelet is an interesting one, and something that's quite scarce in the industry aside from the recent Oris Cotton Candy divers and a couple of releases from Zelos Watches. The Oris bracelet is fully bronze, whereas the Zelos bracelet links are backed with stainless steel in order to prevent any marking from wearing the bracelet on hot/humid days. Many have raised concerns over the risk of leaving "green marks" on the wrist from wearing a bronze bracelet, however I am not especially concerned. First, the Aluminum Bronze composition of Tudor's watches is much slower to patina than other watches which use more copper. Tudor also claims that their bronze is "stabilized", though they have not provided further information on this. Beyond this, I can attest that a good friend of mine has been wearing Oris' bronze bracelet out in the heat and humidity of Charleston, and though the watch itself is showing significant patina, there hasn't been the faintest mark left behind on his wrist.
> View attachment 15961335
> 
> Back to Tudor's bracelet, they've opted to stick with the rivet-style bracelet on this edition, with a new glide-lock clasp. The clasp is spring loaded, and easily adjusts into one of 5 position without fussing. The hope is that this clasp will migrate into the last of the Black Bay line, however there has been mention that Tudor is in no rush to do this. For a closer look at the clasp operation, have a look at the video we posted on Instagram on Wednesday. At this time the bronze model is only available on bracelet, and is sold with the matching brown fabric strap to swap out to as desired.
> View attachment 15961347
> 
> On the dial and elsewhere there isn't much new to report, nor is there in terms of its caliber. The new Bronze model doesn't carry the METAS certification that was seen on the Black Bay Ceramic that launched earlier this year. Its dial spots the same 3-6-9 Explorer-style layout, with a subtle dégradé fade to it.
> View attachment 15961359
> 
> Now, to get back to my opening point, what is Tudor getting at here? In an Olympic year, where Omega remains the official timing partner/sponsor of the Olympics as they have for decades and decades, Tudor goes out of their way to launch new Black Bay models in Gold, Silver, and Bronze? This on its own someone "could" try and pass off as a coincidence, but silver is an extremely obscure material to try to use as a watch case, and I don't think that anyone could argue that there was really any kind of demand for a gold-cased Black Bay enough to justify its release. The two brands are close competitors in many respects, much more than Rolex and Omega compete these days(much to Omega's chagrin). While some Omega and Rolex models go head-to-head in terms of specs, Omega and Tudor compete based on availability/accessibility. Tudor wants to broaden their market appeal, and trying to sneak into the room as the high quality/more affordable alternative to Omega is a smart play, all while leveraging the Rolex connection.
> View attachment 15961391
> 
> While the gold/silver/bronze logic will smell like conspiracy theory to some, the other factor that plays into this ulterior motive is Tudor's move to get METAS certification for the Black Bay Ceramic. METAS has long been Omega's answer to COSC and Rolex's "Superlative Chronometer" certification, and the news from Tudor really came as a surprise-a quick middle finger to Omega, and independent validation of the capabilities of Tudor's in-house calibers. Given Tudor's connection to Rolex and the notoriety of Superlative Chronometer status, Tudor could have easily spun up its own testing and certification process, but instead they went after the one big independent testing service that has mostly only ever been used by Omega. If that's not a little suspect, I don't know what is.
> View attachment 15961403
> 
> Whatever the real agenda is, these last few moves from Tudor are interesting to say the least. Will we see the glide-lock clasp trickle down through the model range? Will we see more METAS certified calibers? How is that bizarre silver case actually going to age? Will anyone ever buy a gold Tudor Black Bay? I guess time will tell.
> 
> *See More of the Tudor Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze*


But isn't Tudor owned by Rolex?


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## toade

Loving mine. Had thought I would polish it from time to time, but really loving the patina.


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