# Is there a better $3,500 watch than a Tudor Black Bay 58?



## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

Those who know me will know that I begin my search for a watch a very very long time before I actually buy it. I'm not a slow decider; I am just very deliberate. 
Firstly, my current collection:






















rules:
No two watches from the same category
Design must look as good today as it will 30 years from now (bonus if you are able to travel back 30 years and it still looks good then)
10ATM WR is minimum
I buy watches once every few years so it has to be something quite special.

Given those criteria, is there a better watch than a BB58?
And where is everyone else's BB58? I wanna see photos and hear your stories.

Purchase is set to sometime early 2021 so there's a definitely possibility of different colours of the watch available.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

With that sort of budget I’d be looking at the Sinn T2B.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

sticky said:


> With that sort of budget I'd be looking at the Sinn T2B.


2B or no T2B
the Sinn is a technically superior watch but the design lacks that classic feel.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

Rolex 16234 Datejust









Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

mui.richard said:


> Rolex 16234 Datejust
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ticks almost every box...
i fail to understand the fluted bezel.
The jubilee bracelet is too visually jarring.


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## wagoss122 (May 23, 2018)

BB58 is a great watch. I'd wait to see how they design it in different variations in the coming years.


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## slorollin (Dec 9, 2016)

There's a whole lot of slightly used Omegas available for $3.5k. So, yes there are many better watches at that price. But, we like what we like.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> ticks almost every box...
> i fail to understand the fluted bezel.
> The jubilee bracelet is too visually jarring.


Thing is, the fluted bezel is what makes the Datejust such a classic. And it's a tribute to the original Oyster case that actually used a screw-in bezel to keep the case hermetically sealed since 1926.









Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

imaCoolRobot said:


> 2B or no T2B
> the Sinn is a technically superior watch but the design lacks that classic feel.


If the Sinn doesn't rev your engine the my vote goes to the BB.


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## mak1277 (Aug 9, 2016)

No chance the BB58 will be selling for $3,500 in 2021.


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## vkalia (Oct 26, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> rules:
> No two watches from the same category
> Design must look as good today as it will 30 years from now (bonus if you are able to travel back 30 years and it still looks good then)
> 10ATM WR is minimum
> I buy watches once every few years so it has to be something quite special.


Oris 65, with the index dial (not the funky numbers) in a 40mm.

I saw the BB58, I saw the bronze-bezelled version of the above and even if the price were the same, I'd prefer the Oris.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

I'd rather have a Speedmaster or an older sapphire datejust.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

vkalia said:


> Oris 65, with the index dial (not the funky numbers) in a 40mm.
> 
> I saw the BB58, I saw the bronze-bezelled version of the above and even if the price were the same, I'd prefer the Oris.


I was sooo close to buying your Oris65 but the BB58 I was eyeing for the future was the deciding factor. Don't you have several of the Oris 65 watches?
Yeah the Index Dial version is BEAUTIFUL.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

sticky said:


> If the Sinn doesn't rev your engine the my vote goes to the BB.


The Sinn has a jarring design.
I want a watch evocative of a 911 which has design continuity for decades. Or something like the VW Golf (my car) which has a visual lineage stretching to the beginning. 
The BlackBay series has that retro look but is still good looking today. The Oris65 has that same vibe.
The other watch I like is the Seiko SLA017 (which is just too much money for too little watch).


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## pinkybrain (Oct 26, 2011)

I'm not sure where the current pricing is, but I was able to get my SLA017 ("SuperMas") new for under $3,000. I'm a huge fan of Tudor in-house (wearing my NF today) but I must say the SuperMas has a few things over the BB (I haven't seen the 58, only the 41 mm). The dial finishing and depth gives it more character...more je ne sais quoi. My only real gripe is the bracelet. The end links don't aesthetically fit the case, it barely tapers, and the clasp is disproportionately large. But otherwise it's a very special watch that you will rarely if ever see on another person. My timekeeping has been a steady +5 with very good isochonism.

I go back and forth on whether I would prefer a BB58 over my SuperMas. The biggest (subjective) advantage I see with the BB58 is the no-date and smaller size and thickness. The biggest advantage for the SuperMas is the aesthetics and the uniqueness. I don't think I could justify both as they're just too similar.

I would also suggest upgrading to the Club Neomatik. The more I think about future servicing headaches with my NF, the more I like what Nomos is doing - making parts fully available to independent watchmakers and at low prices. When it comes time to service your watch, even the Neomatik should be about 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of the Tudor (about $200-ish v. $800-ish). Also, just as a matter of principle, I'm really against what most Swiss watch brands are doing by refusing to sell parts to independent watchmakers. It would be like BMW only making parts available if you get your car repaired/serviced at an authorized BMW dealership. Total and complete BS.



imaCoolRobot said:


> The other watch I like is the Seiko SLA017 (which is just too much money for too little watch).


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## chicagosailor7 (Sep 18, 2014)

Omega Seamaster 2254.50


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## grifball (Nov 2, 2018)

imaCoolRobot said:


> ticks almost every box...
> i fail to understand the fluted bezel.
> The jubilee bracelet is too visually jarring.


You could always get a DJ with a flat or engine turned bezel then, and an oyster bracelet.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

pinkybrain said:


> I'm not sure where the current pricing is, but I was able to get my SLA017 ("SuperMas") new for under $3,000. I'm a huge fan of Tudor in-house (wearing my NF today) but I must say the SuperMas has a few things over the BB (I haven't seen the 58, only the 41 mm). The dial finishing and depth gives it more character...more je ne sais quoi. My only real gripe is the bracelet. The end links don't aesthetically fit the case, it barely tapers, and the clasp is disproportionately large. But otherwise it's a very special watch that you will rarely if ever see on another person. My timekeeping has been a steady +5 with very good isochonism.
> 
> I go back and forth on whether I would prefer a BB58 over my SuperMas. The biggest (subjective) advantage I see with the BB58 is the no-date and smaller size and thickness. The biggest advantage for the SuperMas is the aesthetics and the uniqueness. I don't think I could justify both as they're just too similar.
> 
> I would also suggest upgrading to the Club Neomatik. The more I think about future servicing headaches with my NF, the more I like what Nomos is doing - making parts fully available to independent watchmakers and at low prices. When it comes time to service your watch, even the Neomatik should be about 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of the Tudor (about $200-ish v. $800-ish). Also, just as a matter of principle, I'm really against what most Swiss watch brands are doing by refusing to sell parts to independent watchmakers. It would be like BMW only making parts available if you get your car repaired/serviced at an authorized BMW dealership. Total and complete BS.


Wtf! Servicing a BB58 is $800?
Might have to rethink that plan. 
I've seen the SLA017 going for $6000 on the used market. 
My annual watch budget is about $800 and if I want something expensive I just wait more years.


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## Chris Stark (Sep 21, 2015)

I think the newer BB Steel flies w-a-y under the radar.


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## Denizen (Jun 30, 2006)

My problem with all the Black Bays models is the silly collar around the crown/stem.

It's a no-go as long as that is there.


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## MX793 (Dec 7, 2017)

Denizen said:


> My problem with all the Black Bays models is the silly collar around the crown/stem.
> 
> It's a no-go as long as that is there.


The 58 doesn't have the anodized collar that the larger ones do.

The 58 also doesn't have the thick, slab-sided profile of the other Black Bays, either, which is my biggest problem with the Black Bay line.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

pinkybrain said:


> I'm not sure where the current pricing is, but I was able to get my SLA017 ("SuperMas") new for under $3,000. I'm a huge fan of Tudor in-house (wearing my NF today) but I must say the SuperMas has a few things over the BB (I haven't seen the 58, only the 41 mm). The dial finishing and depth gives it more character...more je ne sais quoi. My only real gripe is the bracelet. The end links don't aesthetically fit the case, it barely tapers, and the clasp is disproportionately large. But otherwise it's a very special watch that you will rarely if ever see on another person. My timekeeping has been a steady +5 with very good isochonism.
> 
> I go back and forth on whether I would prefer a BB58 over my SuperMas. The biggest (subjective) advantage I see with the BB58 is the no-date and smaller size and thickness. The biggest advantage for the SuperMas is the aesthetics and the uniqueness. I don't think I could justify both as they're just too similar.
> 
> I would also suggest upgrading to the Club Neomatik. The more I think about future servicing headaches with my NF, the more I like what Nomos is doing - making parts fully available to independent watchmakers and at low prices. When it comes time to service your watch, even the Neomatik should be about 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of the Tudor (about $200-ish v. $800-ish). Also, just as a matter of principle, I'm really against what most Swiss watch brands are doing by refusing to sell parts to independent watchmakers. It would be like BMW only making parts available if you get your car repaired/serviced at an authorized BMW dealership. Total and complete BS.


Do you have a source on the $800 service cost for the BB58? Or is that speculation? I'm asking as none of the in-house Tudor MT movements are old enough to be needing servicing yet so I do wonder where you got that.

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## pinkybrain (Oct 26, 2011)

I love my SLA017 but I don't $6,000 love it. I thought I just saw one on the sales forum for only $3,400. (BTW: if anyone wants to buy mine for over $4,000 send me a PM! haha).

Last I checked, my local authorized Rolex Service Center charges about $800+ for a service. Compare that to $200-ish for many reputable independents. If you're lucky and nothing is wrong with your Rolex/Tudor maybe all you'd need after 10 years is a new mainspring and gaskets. Also, IIRC, Rolex/Tudor uses unique stepped/grooved crystal gaskets (I swear I can see it on my North Flag). I'm not sure how hard it would be for an independent to get a hold of one of those. As of now, if your in-house Tudor needs movement replacement parts you can only get them through a service by an authorized RSC (ie $$$$).

Assuming nothing goes wrong, in 8 years or so I'll update WUS on my North Flag servicing adventure. (Right now it's one of two or three watches in my collection that I'm least likely to sell, but with WIS-ism you never know). Nomos is one of the few in-house brands that sells parts to independents. From what I saw on a watchmaker's blog their parts prices sometimes even undercut ETA, though I'm sure the neomatik - being a true in-house and not parts sharing with the Peseux 7001 - may have more expensive parts.

Again, it's really a matter of principle for me. I hate what the big brands are doing by limiting parts to only authorized service centers (bad) or their own in-house repair facilities (you $%@#).



imaCoolRobot said:


> Wtf! Servicing a BB58 is $800?
> Might have to rethink that plan.
> I've seen the SLA017 going for $6000 on the used market.
> My annual watch budget is about $800 and if I want something expensive I just wait more years.


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## CastorTroy3 (Dec 24, 2015)

At MSRP the BB is hard to beat. In 18 months its will be $2600 or less. There's a lot of good watches in the $2,500-$4,500. In fact that's just about everyone I own . I'm a hug fan of the BB though. ThAts why I have 3.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

A vote for Temption.


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## Denizen (Jun 30, 2006)

MX793 said:


> The 58 doesn't have the anodized collar that the larger ones do.
> 
> The 58 also doesn't have the thick, slab-sided profile of the other Black Bays, either, which is my biggest problem with the Black Bay line.


By golly, it seems you might be right. I must try this if ever I go to a Tudor AD.

The svelte profile and slightly smaller size...I already knew about and liked.


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

In answer to your question--yes--dozens (if not more), in fact. Do you want to wear what everyone else is wearing? If so, then there are many popular "WUS-approved" choices in that price range, including the BB. Do you want something a bit more special, unique? There are many to choose from.`Do you want a specific kind of watch, such as a diver, a chrono, an all-rounder? Again, so many to choose from--but, all this begs the question--with your post count, you already know all this--so, what's your point--that the Tudor BB is the best buy at $3500? Good luck with that--wouldn't touch one myself for either twice that, or half that.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

mui.richard said:


> Do you have a source on the $800 service cost for the BB58? Or is that speculation? I'm asking as none of the in-house Tudor MT movements are old enough to be needing servicing yet so I do wonder where you got that.
> 
> Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


I checked with an AD earlier today. He quoted CAD $350 (which is probably like USD 300 or less) for the servicing.

BlackBay58 back on my list.


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## RustyBin5 (May 30, 2015)

I'd say go get it. It's glorious







suits most straps too


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

timefleas said:


> In answer to your question--yes--dozens (if not more), in fact. Do you want to wear what everyone else is wearing? If so, then there are many popular "WUS-approved" choices in that price range, including the BB. Do you want something a bit more special, unique? There are many to choose from.`Do you want a specific kind of watch, such as a diver, a chrono, an all-rounder? Again, so many to choose from--but, all this begs the question--with your post count, you already know all this--so, what's your point--that the Tudor BB is the best buy at $3500? Good luck with that--wouldn't touch one myself for either twice that, or half that.


not really interested in "special" or "unique."
no use for a Chronograph.
I already have an all rounder with my Stowa TO2 and Nomos Club.
a Tudor BlackBay (of any variant) is far from ubiquitous like a Rolex Submariner. 
My other choice in the price range was the GrandSeiko Quartz Diver.


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## CastorTroy3 (Dec 24, 2015)

RustyBin5 said:


> I'd say go get it. It's glorious
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The leather NATO is awesome. What brand?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CastorTroy3 (Dec 24, 2015)

timefleas said:


> In answer to your question--yes--dozens (if not more), in fact. Do you want to wear what everyone else is wearing? If so, then there are many popular "WUS-approved" choices in that price range, including the BB. Do you want something a bit more special, unique? .


I've literally seen one other person in my entire town wearing a Tudor.

I've only seen 3 ever.

They are popular here but not all that popular in the wild. I've seen more nautilus the Tudor.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## c0rbin9 (Oct 17, 2018)

You're obviously very selective because your current collection is pretty much ideal in my eyes. Very nice, I'm sure whatever you decide on next will be equally as nice. I'm not the biggest Nomos enthusiast, but that one you posted the picture of is the coolest I've seen. Same thing with the second watch, whatever it is - never seen anything like it, very striking.

You'd probably like vintage King Seiko:


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## c0rbin9 (Oct 17, 2018)

And another:










Timeless and classic, just like your other watches. Also one of the most reliable and accurate watches you can buy.


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## Stargazer735 (Aug 24, 2018)

The BB58 is an excellent watch.

Also, consider the Omega Seamaster AquaTerra or the new Seamaster 300M. Both are stunning in person and are arguably just as good if not better. The METAS certification for accuracy, anti-magnetism, etc. is extremely impressive, as is the visual appeal of the movement (if you're into exhibition casebacks, that is.)

That said, if a Datejust ticks all your boxes except for the fluted bezel and jubilee bracelet, why not get a domed bezel and oyster bracelet?

My DJ41 below for reference.

Obviously, you would need to go used and/or spend a little extra... but it's worth it IMHO.

Good luck with whatever you go with and be sure to let us know with pictures! 









Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


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## warsh (May 22, 2017)

The BB 58 is fantastic! 








Super comfortable, super versatile and mines been running at +1spd. 
Given the movement and the quality overall, it's a steal!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Salt_Water (Sep 20, 2018)

imaCoolRobot said:


> 2B or no T2B
> the Sinn is a technically superior watch but the design lacks that classic feel.


I wear a Sinn U1. The indices and hands give it a distinctly bauhaus/architectural feel which I would consider classic, and distinctive. I cannot overstate my satisfaction with this one.


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## zimv20ca (Oct 21, 2017)

i tried on the BB58 today and liked it a lot. it fit / felt great in a way the larger BBs don't. the only thing i don't dig is the colour scheme, but (like others) i reckon they'll come out w/ some new ones.

at that point, i expect it'll be on my list.


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## Tohono Rat (Apr 23, 2018)

Is there a _better_ watch for the price? I think the clear answer is an emphatic "no" from an objective point of view. Are there others as good? _Many_. Some of the suggestions in this thread are examples of these. However, I do not think there is any way in which any of them are objectively better _overall_ watches. At this price point (maybe at all price points), I think there are trade offs to be made. It all comes down to a matter of preference and priorities. Wear and enjoy what you like.


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## LCandela (Feb 13, 2017)

It's a couple more dollars, but this thing is unreal. After I received mine, a friend of mine HAD to have it after trying it on. Ticks a ton of boxes, has several functionalities, classic design... and I think the BB58 will depreciate more by comparison.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

Salt_Water said:


> I wear a Sinn U1. The indices and hands give it a distinctly bauhaus/architectural feel which I would consider classic, and distinctive. I cannot overstate my satisfaction with this one.


The Sinn U1 is very nice but it is very large. 44mm
Also, I don't need that much WR. 
I just like a bit of WR for splashing around the pool and beach holidays. 
The Tudor has a better movement and that counts for more in my books. I like the super long PR. 
If I had room or the budget for a dozen watches I might think differently. 
I'm looking for my final piece.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

Stargazer735 said:


> The BB58 is an excellent watch.
> 
> Also, consider the Omega Seamaster AquaTerra or the new Seamaster 300M. Both are stunning in person and are arguably just as good if not better. The METAS certification for accuracy, anti-magnetism, etc. is extremely impressive, as is the visual appeal of the movement (if you're into exhibition casebacks, that is.)
> 
> ...


The OP 39 is also a consideration. It's sorta like a "it might not be too fancy" watch but I reckon it's doing alright.


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## vkalia (Oct 26, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> I was sooo close to buying your Oris65 but the BB58 I was eyeing for the future was the deciding factor. Don't you have several of the Oris 65 watches?
> Yeah the Index Dial version is BEAUTIFUL.


I have 3 and am oh-so-close to getting the 4th. They are like chips - you cant stop at one. Great watches, very well priced.


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## Stargazer735 (Aug 24, 2018)

imaCoolRobot said:


> The OP 39 is also a consideration. It's sorta like a "it might not be too fancy" watch but I reckon it's doing alright.


Huge fan of the new ones in white and black! 

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk


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## SpankyMcGee (Oct 15, 2018)

I dig the Tudor BB58 but this year I invested in the Oris 65 (40mm, bronze ring) and I love it. To me it's just the right balance of size, feel and looks. Beautiful but understated and it just feels good on my wrist. People like to bag on the movement but mine was +/- 5sec/day right out of the box. I also hope that it may be easier to get serviced in the future if needed as the parts aren't so sorry proprietary. Very happy with my purchase.


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## RustyBin5 (May 30, 2015)

CastorTroy3 said:


> The leather NATO is awesome. What brand?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bargain bucket cheapie - no make. Ebay £10


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## harry_flashman (May 30, 2016)

imaCoolRobot said:


> The Sinn has a jarring design.
> I want a watch evocative of a 911 which has design continuity for decades. Or something like the VW Golf (my car) which has a visual lineage stretching to the beginning.
> The BlackBay series has that retro look but is still good looking today. The Oris65 has that same vibe.
> The other watch I like is the Seiko SLA017 (which is just too much money for too little watch).


The Omega Speedmaster Pro - with Hesalite - is the 911 of watches.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Msiekierski (Sep 13, 2016)

Love the Speedy, but it does not have the 100m WR he was asking for. That pepsi Tudor is BOSS, wish Rolex would stay with that shade of blue/red, I’d be hunting it down lol.


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## c0rbin9 (Oct 17, 2018)

What is the second watch in the OP, the black one?


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## warsh (May 22, 2017)

c0rbin9 said:


> What is the second watch in the OP, the black one?


It's a Stowa. Don't know model

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## c0rbin9 (Oct 17, 2018)

Thanks, with a bit of Googling I found out it is a Stowa TO2 Flieger, to be exact.


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## CastorTroy3 (Dec 24, 2015)

RustyBin5 said:


> Bargain bucket cheapie - no make. Ebay £10


Those are the best kind. Myfavorite leather nato was $15.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Quartersawn (Nov 20, 2008)

imaCoolRobot said:


> ...
> Design must look as good today as it will 30 years from now (bonus if you are able to travel back 30 years and it still looks good then)


I think you are safe with the BB58, it's a great looking watch. The sub below is almost 40 years old and the design works as well today as when it was introduced in 1969. If Tudor releases a blue dial/blue bezel BB58 I will be getting one.


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## Karlisnet (Feb 20, 2016)

The BB58 is a great choice, no doubt. A future classic.

if you want to explore some alternatives at that price range, the seamaster 300 Master co-axial has the same vintage vib, uber cool insert, superb finishing and bracelet, and a great presence on the wrist. You can not go wrong with any of them |>


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## michael8238 (Sep 13, 2015)

I honestly think 58 is the best piece you can find at that price point.
Can't wait for Tudor to release other colors and, perhaps, the GMT version.


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## pets (Sep 30, 2018)

Quartersawn said:


> imaCoolRobot said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


The snowflake hand really works with those rectangular hour markers.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

Karlisnet said:


> The BB58 is a great choice, no doubt. A future classic.
> 
> if you want to explore some alternatives at that price range, the seamaster 300 Master co-axial has the same vintage vib, uber cool insert, superb finishing and bracelet, and a great presence on the wrist. You can not go wrong with any of them |>


The master coaxial was definitely a consideration but it is about 50% more money.


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## TwentiethCenturyFox (Mar 8, 2014)

Another for Omega. You can get a Speedy for that price and almost two vintage MKII's, which I vastly prefer.


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## barutanseijin (Sep 18, 2017)

I really hate the snowflake hands and i kinda dislike the Sub look in general, so i'd never consider the BB58 to be worth the money. But i won't be looking at it.

Looking at your other watches, what's really missing is something smaller and/or understated. It could be the Club, but it looks big on you. Maybe trade down for the 36mm version? 

The other thing i'd say is that if you apply the same rules to all your watches, you're likely to end up with a bunch of fundamentally similar watches. With these categories, there doesn't seem to be room for anything but a modern sports watch, which is kind of limiting.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

barutanseijin said:


> I really hate the snowflake hands and i kinda dislike the Sub look in general, so i'd never consider the BB58 to be worth the money. But i won't be looking at it.
> 
> Looking at your other watches, what's really missing is something smaller and/or understated. It could be the Club, but it looks big on you. Maybe trade down for the 36mm version?
> 
> The other thing i'd say is that if you apply the same rules to all your watches, you're likely to end up with a bunch of fundamentally similar watches. With these categories, there doesn't seem to be room for anything but a modern sports watch, which is kind of limiting.


Hey! That is a 36mm Nomos Club 701. 
The rules are simply there to stop me from buying something I don't like. 
The Nomos is small and the Stowa is understated. 
No interest in a chronograph or anything that lacks the classic vibe.


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## Juweinat (Aug 4, 2018)

Have you looked at the doxa sub 300?


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## MediumRB (May 7, 2015)

Are you effing kidding me? Three years from now you might not have an arm. Might as well start planning which shoes you will wear the day you go to buy it.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

MediumRB said:


> Are you effing kidding me? Three years from now you might not have an arm. Might as well start planning which shoes you will wear the day you go to buy it.


very likely these


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## LinuxJonCB (Jul 12, 2018)

It's preference, but I'd go with the Pelagos before the BB...


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

LinuxJonCB said:


> It's preference, but I'd go with the Pelagos before the BB...


The Pelagos was in the short list. It's a mite too big and too Toolish. It's a great watch but isn't like classic beauty. The NorthFlag and Ranger also rank high on my list. The BlackBay was fine...but the BlackBay58 just made me really really take notice and put it right atop the list.

I don't really need a watch so I am able to plan very far in advance. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my current watches.


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## Fantasio (Apr 5, 2009)

How about pre-owned 36 mm Rolex Explorer?


Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

Fantasio said:


> How about pre-owned 36 mm Rolex Explorer?
> 
> Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


Where are you finding those for that price?
I'm seeing $10k+ for a 1016. 
Oh hello. A 14270

Any reason not to get one?
If I can find in one good condition when I have the money I will put this at the top of my list.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Denizen said:


> My problem with all the Black Bays models is the silly collar around the crown/stem.
> 
> It's a no-go as long as that is there.


So many things REALLY irrationally bother me about watches. That however is one I don't get at all. if anything I think it's a nice bit of finishing on a watch that needs a bit more "help" if you will.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

imaCoolRobot said:


> not really interested in "special" or "unique."
> no use for a Chronograph.
> I already have an all rounder with my Stowa TO2 and Nomos Club.
> a Tudor BlackBay (of any variant) is far from ubiquitous like a Rolex Submariner.
> *My other choice in the price range was the GrandSeiko Quartz Diver*.


If you can get the white dial GS diver...and are ok with used. JUST DO IT! That watch is a master piece! I'd put off buying a house next year if they drop a new version of that a basel (I mean I'd dip into my down payment fund if needed).


----------



## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

MediumRB said:


> Are you effing kidding me? Three years from now you might not have an arm. Might as well start planning which shoes you will wear the day you go to buy it.


I know the shoes I'll wear when I buy my next watch. Isn't that a normal thing to know a few years ahead? I have my weekend shoes and if I'm going to a nicer place I know which pair I wear for that. They're less than 10 years old so no need to change my nice enough weekenders. What kinda animals do you take us for!?


----------



## ronsabbagh (Mar 8, 2006)

If you want the Porshe 911 of watches, I say stick with German

Dornbluth 99.1

42mm
Handcrafted by Herr Dornbluth himself
Timeless design

If you are in no rush you have the option to contact Herr Dornbluth personally and customize your piece.


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## 3005 (Apr 10, 2015)

There really isn't. You need to see it in the metal to fully appreciate this watch. The size is absolutely perfect and the gilt bezel coloring looks awesome with the gilt dial. Plus, the Tudor manufacture movement is accurate as hell and has 70 hours of power reserve.


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## warsh (May 22, 2017)

Quartersawn said:


> I think you are safe with the BB58, it's a great looking watch. The sub below is almost 40 years old and the design works as well today as when it was introduced in 1969. If Tudor releases a blue dial/blue bezel BB58 I will be getting one.
> 
> View attachment 13611639


Great photo! That watch has aged well!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## warsh (May 22, 2017)

3005 said:


> There really isn't. You need to see it in the metal to fully appreciate this watch. The size is absolutely perfect and the gilt bezel coloring looks awesome with the gilt dial. Plus, the Tudor manufacture movement is accurate as hell and has 70 hours of power reserve.
> 
> View attachment 13613691


Well said! Couldn't agree more.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

DustinS said:


> If you can get the white dial GS diver...and are ok with used. JUST DO IT! That watch is a master piece! I'd put off buying a house next year if they drop a new version of that a basel (I mean I'd dip into my down payment fund if needed).


I should see if my brother would ever want to part with his







i prefer the black dial


----------



## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

a second hand zenith el primero or a vintage valjoux 72 powered chronograph


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

georges zaslavsky said:


> a second hand zenith el primero or a vintage valjoux 72 powered chronograph










out of my budget *LOL*
also handwind and chronograph


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## hungdangnguyen23 (Mar 21, 2018)

For some reason, the 36mm Rolex 14270 Explorers have been going down in price while every other Rolex is appreciating. I saw one on WUS the other day for $3.2K but lacked provenance (no box/papers). 

No idea why the Explorer 1's are depreciating but if you want a good GADA watch and 36mm is acceptable to you, I'd rather have a Rolex than a Tudor. Just my opinion.


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## ronkatct (Sep 27, 2018)

The Tudor Black Bay 58 is one of the nicest divers for smaller hands in the $3,000 to $4,000 range. I would like to see what 2019 models become available. Maybe a coke red and a navy blue?

If I were to get a diver in that price range, the BBC 58 will be at the top of my list.


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## Heljestrand (Oct 26, 2014)

I just tried on the Tudor 58 at a Tampa, Florida AD within the last hour today, Sunday 4 November. It was the only one of two that arrived Friday and was presented on leather deployant. Cool watch, great wearable size for most men and some ladies I’d imagine. Personally I thought the bezel action was commensurate with the price range, nothing exceptional. PROBABLY for the $$ not a bad watch to own.


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## sillo38 (Nov 10, 2014)

2254.50

Just picked this up for $1875 to fill the do anything watch role in my collection. Classic Omega design, easily serviceable and accurate movement, plenty of water resistance and a date.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

Alternatively may I suggest the Omega AT...at 38mm it fits nicely on a small wrist and the dial is simply stunning in person. Besides, you can opt to wear it on a metal bracelet, leather or rubber strap to give it a different vibe to your heart's desire.









Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## Quartersawn (Nov 20, 2008)

sillo38 said:


> 2254.50
> 
> Just picked this up for $1875 to fill the do anything watch role in my collection. Classic Omega design, easily serviceable and accurate movement, plenty of water resistance and a date.


I sold my 2254.50 because of the date and the HE valve (I didn't like either one). Regardless, it is a really nice watch and I prefer it with its svelte case and sword hands to the chunky divers Omega is currently peddling.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

mui.richard said:


> Alternatively may I suggest the Omega AT...at 38mm it fits nicely on a small wrist and the dial is simply stunning in person. Besides, you can opt to wear it on a metal bracelet, leather or rubber strap to give it a different vibe to your heart's desire.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


possible consideration


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

hungdangnguyen23 said:


> For some reason, the 36mm Rolex 14270 Explorers have been going down in price while every other Rolex is appreciating. I saw one on WUS the other day for $3.2K but lacked provenance (no box/papers).
> 
> No idea why the Explorer 1's are depreciating but if you want a good GADA watch and 36mm is acceptable to you, I'd rather have a Rolex than a Tudor. Just my opinion.


don't jinx it!
if a 14270 is still in my budget when the time comes, I might get a nice one (with papers and stuff) instead of the BB58.


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## sillo38 (Nov 10, 2014)

Quartersawn said:


> I sold my 2254.50 because of the date and the HE valve (I didn't like either one). Regardless, it is a really nice watch and I prefer it with its svelte case and sword hands to the chunky divers Omega is currently peddling.


I definitely think it'd look even better without the HE valve plus it's absolutely useless for 99% of people.

I love the date though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Quartersawn said:


> I sold my 2254.50 because of the date and the HE valve (I didn't like either one). Regardless, it is a really nice watch and I prefer it with its svelte case and sword hands to the chunky divers Omega is currently peddling.


That's why I got this instead.


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## dwilliams851 (Jun 16, 2017)

Bremont S300, S301



















Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Quartersawn (Nov 20, 2008)

mleok said:


> That's why I got this instead.


Great minds think alike, this is the 2254.50 replacement I got six years ago. It gets lots of wrist time. b-)


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## grifball (Nov 2, 2018)

Man, this thread is killing me. I'm on the waitlist for a 58 at my local AD and I told myself when I did that, I wouldn't expect to hear back before the first of the year. There are about 8-10 people in front of me on the list and they said they've gotten about 4-5 in over the past couple months.

But seeing all the rave reviews here is stoking that fire again.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## Toothbras (Apr 19, 2010)

grifball said:


> Man, this thread is killing me. I'm on the waitlist for a 58 at my local AD and I told myself when I did that, I wouldn't expect to hear back before the first of the year. There are about 8-10 people in front of me on the list and they said they've gotten about 4-5 in over the past couple months.
> 
> But seeing all the rave reviews here is stoking that fire again.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


i was at a local AD on friday that had it (but it was on leather, not sure if you want it on the bracelet). RF Moeller in Edina, MN, call them if you're interested


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## grifball (Nov 2, 2018)

Toothbras said:


> i was at a local AD on friday that had it (but it was on leather, not sure if you want it on the bracelet). RF Moeller in Edina, MN, call them if you're interested


Yeah, I'm a bracelet guy, unfortunately. I'll probably look to get it on a bracelet and buy the NATO later. Based on what I've seen, it would be hundreds of dollars more expensive to get it on leather or NATO and buy the bracelet later.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

Tried it on today and it looked amazing


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## Fantasio (Apr 5, 2009)

Cheapest 14270s start from around 3.5k at Chrono24, so I guess it's not impossible to find one.



imaCoolRobot said:


> Where are you finding those for that price?
> I'm seeing $10k+ for a 1016.
> Oh hello. A 14270


Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> ticks almost every box...
> i fail to understand the fluted bezel.
> The jubilee bracelet is too visually jarring.


BTW, despite what some people think the Datejust on jubilee goes EXTREMELY well with denim...









Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

It goes well with denim. It just doesn't go well with my wrist. That fluted bezel. I just can't do it.


mui.richard said:


> BTW, despite what some people think the Datejust on jubilee goes EXTREMELY well with denim...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## sillo38 (Nov 10, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> It goes well with denim. It just doesn't go well with my wrist. That fluted bezel. I just can't do it.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


16200/116200 have smooth bezels.


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## grifball (Nov 2, 2018)

A stainless steel engine turned bezel on a brown leather strap will go well with jeans. In my experience, a vintage DJ with some good scuffs from use dresses down with jeans really well.


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## Cybotron (Dec 7, 2006)

I don't understand the appeal for this watch. Sure it's really nice and everyone raves about it like it's the next best thing to slice bread. Overrated in my book 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

Cybotron said:


> I don't understand the appeal for this watch. Sure it's really nice and everyone raves about it like it's the next best thing to slice bread. Overrated in my book
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


It's better than sliced bread


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## 1stcrown (Apr 9, 2018)

If the Sinn doesn't thick every box for you, you should consider Rolex 16234 Datejust.


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## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> It goes well with denim. It just doesn't go well with my wrist. That fluted bezel. I just can't do it.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


I don't think the fluted bezel on the stainless is overwhelming at all, nor do I think the fluted on those vintage pieces are overly showy. I think the size of the bezel and the flutes, if you will, as well as the fact that they have worn with age take away from the spectacularness of the shine that you would see on a new model. In fact, I don't think I could pull off the new model with the fluted bezel. Years ago I had my grandfather's two tone datejust with an 18 carat gold fluted bezel. It was not overwhelming at all and I think still works very casually.


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## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

Cybotron said:


> I don't understand the appeal for this watch. Sure it's really nice and everyone raves about it like it's the next best thing to slice bread. Overrated in my book
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


You talking the BB 58 or the Vintage datejust?

The BB 58 is, I think, more beautiful in real life than it is in pictures. I didn't get the hype at all but then saw at the wind up fair in New York City yesterday. I get the hype on it because it's much thinner than the black Bay, but otherwise I actually prefer the regular black Bay black to it.


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## Cybotron (Dec 7, 2006)

41Mets said:


> You talking the BB 58 or the Vintage datejust?
> 
> The BB 58 is, I think, more beautiful in real life than it is in pictures. I didn't get the hype at all but then saw at the wind up fair in New York City yesterday. I get the hype on it because it's much thinner than the black Bay, but otherwise I actually prefer the regular black Bay black to it.


BB 58. Yes I prefer the regular Black Bay also.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## JLS36 (Feb 5, 2016)

What do you mean?


mak1277 said:


> No chance the BB58 will be selling for $3,500 in 2021.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

JLS36 said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Rolex price creep


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## kepa (Jan 29, 2016)

hungdangnguyen23 said:


> For some reason, the 36mm Rolex 14270 Explorers have been going down in price while every other Rolex is appreciating. I saw one on WUS the other day for $3.2K but lacked provenance (no box/papers).
> 
> No idea why the Explorer 1's are depreciating but if you want a good GADA watch and 36mm is acceptable to you, I'd rather have a Rolex than a Tudor. Just my opinion.


36mm Explorers are not going down in price. That $3.2k must have been an aberration, seeing as a search on WatchRecon shows most people are selling for above $4k. I bought one 2 years ago for $3.2k and that was on the high end. Now I see them in shops for over $4.5k, which is one of the reasons why I got the newer 39mm, after I regretted selling my 36mm and was looking to get an Explorer again. Used Rolex market is crazy right now.

For the original question, it really does depend on what type of watch is wanted. I can think of a handful of watches I would prefer over the BB 58, but some are vintage and/or are different types of watches.


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## mak1277 (Aug 9, 2016)

imaCoolRobot said:


> Rolex price creep


Well really just general inflation of all goods. I wasn't making a comment about Rolex/Tudor. But I figure you're probably looking at a $250 bump every year right?


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## JLS36 (Feb 5, 2016)

Possible but I don't think Rolex prices keep going the vintage stuff that's skyrocketing along with the tough to obtain new stuff can't last imo. People paying twice resale won't recoop. Years ago Rolex was the same cost as seiko now, well not even close.


imaCoolRobot said:


> Rolex price creep


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## sillo38 (Nov 10, 2014)

JLS36 said:


> Possible but I don't think Rolex prices keep going the vintage stuff that's skyrocketing along with the tough to obtain new stuff can't last imo. People paying twice resale won't recoop. Years ago Rolex was the same cost as seiko now, well not even close.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


It's going to slow down but i don't think the prices will ever come down from where they are.

Cheapest day to buy a Rolex is today.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Btreichel87 (Jan 20, 2016)

Cybotron said:


> I don't understand the appeal for this watch. Sure it's really nice and everyone raves about it like it's the next best thing to slice bread. Overrated in my book
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I think it's a big deal because of the dimensions. For those of us with sub 7" wrists, a properly proportioned 39mm diver is a big deal.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

sillo38 said:


> It's going to slow down but i don't think the prices will ever come down from where they are.
> 
> Cheapest day to buy a Rolex is today.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As boomers pass on, they will flood the market with used watches. Given newer consumers don't buy them and the huge value on the brand today (so the old watches are maintained), there will be excess on the market eventually. Just a matter of when, unless china really does have huge huge demand.


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## Berty234 (Aug 1, 2016)

It’s a super watch. For me it fixes the problems with the bulkier, bigger BBs yet still wears sufficiently large enough to be a proper dive watch. 

The quality is, as ever with Tudor, very high. All the components add up to something special - the bevelling, the dimensions combined with in house movement, the curves to the inside of the lugs, the red triangle, the gilt bezel to match the dial, the all steel crown and engraved Tudor rose - it has to be near the top of the list at this price point.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

chicagosailor7 said:


> Omega Seamaster 2254.50


This and you'd be saving 1.5k. Or the electric blue version and you'd be saving closer to 2k. Bullet proof 1120 movement.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> I checked with an AD earlier today. He quoted CAD $350 (which is probably like USD 300 or less) for the servicing.
> 
> BlackBay58 back on my list.


I can't speak to that, but I got a quote from NY RSC for a Tudor Submariner and the price was about $800. That was for an ETA so I'd imagine the in-house would be even more.


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## bjespo (Oct 15, 2018)

I love my Omega Globemaster that I bought new for $3700 (it was a real steal IMO) and it's not a watch that you see too many people with nor does it get a lot of press. Most of the new Speedys are 15mm thick as are the old BBs which is just way too thick for my tastes. I would be in for a BB58 if/when it comes in blue but I agree it's a good buy. I also just bought a Halios Seaforth for $900 and it hasn't left my wrist since I purchased it. I can't say enough about how much I love that watch but it's a pain in the rear to buy.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

chillwill120 said:


> I can't speak to that, but I got a quote from NY RSC for a Tudor Submariner and the price was about $800. That was for an ETA so I'd imagine the in-house would be even more.


I found the old paperwork. Keep in mind this was from May of 2016 and prices may have increased. Normally you don't have to buy new hands but Rolex was making me do so because there was a crack in the lume of the hour hand. However, Rolex always makes you buy a new crown at every service.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

chillwill120 said:


> I found the old paperwork. Keep in mind this was from May of 2016 and prices may have increased. Normally you don't have to buy new hands but Rolex was making me do so because there was a crack in the lume of the hour hand. However, Rolex always makes you buy a new crown at every service.
> 
> View attachment 13620457


Could it just be that RSC USA is more expensive than elsewhere? Here's a couple of service receipts from my RSC in HK and looks like it's much less money here. Hkd to usd is about hkd7.8 to usd1.

So probably it's also cheaper in Canada where Sam is located?









Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

mui.richard said:


> Could it just be that RSC USA is more expensive than elsewhere? Here's a couple of service receipts from my RSC in HK and looks like it's much less money here. Hkd to usd is about hkd7.8 to usd1.
> 
> So probably it's also cheaper in Canada where Sam is located?
> 
> ...


Probably, I don't doubt what anyone else is saying. Just showing my experience with RSC NY.


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## corybantic (Aug 9, 2018)

Oak & Oscar has a new "dive" watch coming out in a week or so... I would take a look!


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## hungdangnguyen23 (Mar 21, 2018)

That guy kepa or whatever his name is who said 14270 prices aren't coming down is straight trippin. They most definitely are, I've been looking daily for the better part of 5-6 months straight and have no reason to fabricate this, unlike an Exp1 owner who would like to believe his investment is appreciating.

The 1st attachment is of a screenshot of a watchrecon search today. Those listings would have started in the $4.5-5K about 6 months ago, they're in the low 4's today. There's still a clean series A on bracelet up for grabs at $3.75K. And we all know these are starting points for a negotiation, knock off at least a couple hundred bucks from listed price.

Let's go back slightly farther - the 2nd attachment is a screenshot from listings within the past 2 months. 3 separate listings for 14270s in the $3.5K range and another at $3.9K.


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## evvignes (May 31, 2014)

Any Oyster Perpetual no-date. 
Used Planet Ocean.


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## sillo38 (Nov 10, 2014)

hungdangnguyen23 said:


> That guy kepa or whatever his name is who said 14270 prices aren't coming down is straight trippin. They most definitely are, I've been looking daily for the better part of 5-6 months straight and have no reason to fabricate this, unlike an Exp1 owner who would like to believe his investment is appreciating.
> 
> The 1st attachment is of a screenshot of a watchrecon search today. Those listings would have started in the $4.5-5K about 6 months ago, they're in the low 4's today. There's still a clean series A on bracelet up for grabs at $3.75K. And we all know these are starting points for a negotiation, knock off at least a couple hundred bucks from listed price.
> 
> Let's go back slightly farther - the 2nd attachment is a screenshot from listings within the past 2 months. 3 separate listings for 14270s in the $3.5K range and another at $3.9K.


Think you got your attachments backwards. The bottom is now, and the only one that is under 4k has no bracelet.


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## adamdoubletee (Jul 22, 2018)

I would say for that money it has to be Tudor BB58 or the North Flag. Value proposition on both considering what you get is amazing. That is what I have come to learn after 6 years of looking at this price range


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> It goes well with denim. It just doesn't go well with my wrist. That fluted bezel. I just can't do it.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


Then have a look at this, Rolex 114200 34mm, plain stainless steel bezel, Oyster bracelet with a choice of 7 dial colors to your heart's content, only 4k brand new from grey dealers, MSRP a bit under 5k. The green dial is my favorite, while the 2018 newly added white or black dial are the most understated.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/the-rolex-oyster-perpetual-now-with-white-and-black-dials









Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## Tman3000 (May 12, 2015)

imaCoolRobot said:


> Those who know me will know that I begin my search for a watch a very very long time before I actually buy it. I'm not a slow decider; I am just very deliberate.
> Firstly, my current collection:
> View attachment 13609203
> 
> ...


I think we have very similar tastes in watches!! I think the BB58 is an awesome looking watch, though probably a little too small for me. I also don't think I'm comfortable spending that much on a watch yet. For now I have a couple affordable watches with a similar style. I liked the nomos Club, got the Seiko SARG 011 and have been looking for a diver with gilt accents and just picked up the Mido Ocean Star Captain. The last piece in my collection is a Steinhart Ocean 1 Titanium GMT. Still looking for one more but that will probably be next summer.










Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk


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## Tman3000 (May 12, 2015)

Forgot to recommend an alternative watch! I think a great diver which you really should check out in person is the Oris Divers 65, both the Movember editions and the new Bronze Bezel models. I think it's been mentioned by a couple folks but I think it's worth seeing in person, it's so thin and the bezel taper is fantastic!

I'm also a big fan of the Bell & Ross V2-92. Not too sure about the pricing on them but they are gorgeous watches.

Pics from Fratello (Oris) and ablogtowatch (B&R)









Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

The SARG is gorgeous. 
I don’t like having too many watches so I buy a more expensive one every couple of years.


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## Fantasio (Apr 5, 2009)

Quite similar to your Stowa, I would say.



imaCoolRobot said:


> The SARG is gorgeous.


Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

Fantasio said:


> Quite similar to your Stowa, I would say.
> 
> Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


I like a certain aesthetic


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

Just picked this up for a friend, the dial really pops in person and while it's the simplest Rolex you can get in a men's size, the quality is immediately apparent when you hold it in your hands.









Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

yesssss..keep falling!
Soon I'll be able to get one.
sometime in two years i'll be asking Rolex Explorer 1 (14270) vs Tudor BlackBay 58 (blue or red)


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

I've been looking at the Rhodium


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

imaCoolRobot said:


> I've been looking at the Rhodium
> View attachment 13625153


Can you really get those down to 3,500 used? That's a nice discount.


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## pinkybrain (Oct 26, 2011)

DustinS said:


> Can you really get those down to 3,500 used? That's a nice discount.


Good luck with that.


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## sillo38 (Nov 10, 2014)

DustinS said:


> Can you really get those down to 3,500 used? That's a nice discount.


A quick check on WatchRecon nothing below high 4s.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

DustinS said:


> Can you really get those down to 3,500 used? That's a nice discount.


I'll just wait longer and spend more


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## Tman3000 (May 12, 2015)

imaCoolRobot said:


> I've been looking at the Rhodium
> View attachment 13625153


That's gorgeous. Do that make that in a 41mm?

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk


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## sillo38 (Nov 10, 2014)

Tman3000 said:


> That's gorgeous. Do that make that in a 41mm?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk


Just 39mm for this dial. The OP line comes in 34, 36 and 39mm.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

imaCoolRobot said:


> I'll just wait longer and spend more


I'd personally get the black bay for my money. I haven't handled that dial color but the OP imo was pretty underwhelming in how it felt given the price point. Plus a used black bay should come in even less


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## zimv20ca (Oct 21, 2017)

Tman3000 said:


> That's gorgeous. Do that make that in a 41mm?


heh, i'd probably get it if it came in 36mm.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

DustinS said:


> Can you really get those down to 3,500 used? That's a nice discount.


The 34mm I got for my friend yesterday was USD 4,230 brand new, grey market. Why bother with used?

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## jlow28 (Feb 27, 2010)

I would say at the BB58 is almost perfect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

mui.richard said:


> The 34mm I got for my friend yesterday was USD 4,230 brand new, grey market. Why bother with used?
> 
> Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


That was a 39 mm...that is also 21% more than 3500. Not exactly a small difference.


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## wuyeah (Apr 24, 2007)

mui.richard said:


> Just picked this up for a friend, the dial really pops in person and while it's the simplest Rolex you can get in a men's size, the quality is immediately apparent when you hold it in your hands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is your friend MY FRIEND? Just kidding. I do have a friend who picked this up as well. I have handle this one quite a bit. The green is fantastic. The color is very easy to wear too. Unlike LVC that need more sense to wear it. Highly recommended.


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## seedubs1 (Dec 22, 2017)

Yeah, the BB is a heck of a watch for the price. Only other thing I could think of in this price range is a speedy.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

wuyeah said:


> Is your friend MY FRIEND? Just kidding. I do have a friend who picked this up as well. I have handle this one quite a bit. The green is fantastic. The color is very easy to wear too. Unlike LVC that need more sense to wear it. Highly recommended.


Who knows? Is your friend located in Hong Kong?

Yes, it's a fantastic little watch very easy to wear. If I didn't already have a 6694 I would have definitely picked it up last year.

Now I'm just waiting for the right timing to blow my watch fund on a 126711 chnr. I hate the idea of paying over MSRP 

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

DustinS said:


> That was a 39 mm...that is also 21% more than 3500. Not exactly a small difference.





imaCoolRobot said:


> I'll just wait longer and spend more


I think OP already made his point no? 21% of 3,500 is $735 to be exact, I don't think that's a biggie 

Besides, Sam has a small wrist so I think the 34mm is more or less perfect for him.

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## wuyeah (Apr 24, 2007)

mui.richard said:


> Who knows? Is your friend located in Hong Kong?
> 
> Yes, it's a fantastic little watch very easy to wear. If I didn't already have a 6694 I would have definitely picked it up last year.
> 
> ...


Not HK but China. His first Rolex. Perhaps his last watch LOL. He is not a spendy, just a Rolex for life. 40yo with his first Rolex, he deserve to spend a bit more on a watch.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

wuyeah said:


> Not HK but China. His first Rolex. Perhaps his last watch LOL. He is not a spendy, just a Rolex for life. 40yo with his first Rolex, he deserve to spend a bit more on a watch.


I got the 16014 in 2012, I was 45...thought that's all the watch I needed. I didn't know better apparently.

In 2013, I bought my first brand-new 214270 Explorer and within 4 months I got the 216570 Explorer II...currently I have 6 Rolexes.

These things get additive! 

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## Toothbras (Apr 19, 2010)

mak1277 said:


> Well really just general inflation of all goods. I wasn't making a comment about Rolex/Tudor. But I figure you're probably looking at a $250 bump every year right?


FWIW the price of a Sub hasn't changed in 6 or 7 years


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

Navitimers with 7750 movements are in this price range, sapphire crystal datejusts, 36mm explorers, 36mm oyster perpetuals, several variants of the Omega Seamaster 300, the Planet Ocean, Seamaster 300 Master Co-axial, Breitling heritage divers, several IWC pilot watches, certain Panerai Radiomirs etc. etc.

I don't understand the obsession with this watch. Sure it's a nice watch but so are all the others I listed which are similarly priced. This watch by no means has the $3,500 price range dominated.



seedubs1 said:


> Yeah, the BB is a heck of a watch for the price. Only other thing I could think of in this price range is a speedy.


----------



## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

mui.richard said:


> I think OP already made his point no? 21% of 3,500 is $735 to be exact, I don't think that's a biggie
> 
> Besides, Sam has a small wrist so I think the 34mm is more or less perfect for him.
> 
> Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


Oooof! 
It's not that small 
I'm thinking of the 39mm Oyster Perpetual.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

chillwill120 said:


> Navitimers with 7750 movements are in this price range, sapphire crystal datejusts, 36mm explorers, 36mm oyster perpetuals, several variants of the Omega Seamaster 300, the Planet Ocean, Seamaster 300 Master Co-axial, Breitling heritage divers, several IWC pilot watches, certain Panerai Radiomirs etc. etc.
> 
> I don't understand the obsession with this watch. Sure it's a nice watch but so are all the others I listed which are similarly priced. This watch by no means has the $3,500 price range dominated.


BB58 is the less wealthy person's route to the iconic Submariner.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> Oooof!
> It's not that small
> I'm thinking of the 39mm Oyster Perpetual.





imaCoolRobot said:


> View attachment 13609203


If the Nomos looks like that on your wrist, then a 34mm Oyster case will not look small on you at all. 

But then of course, my motto is always wear what you like and size be damned.

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## seedubs1 (Dec 22, 2017)

chillwill120 said:


> Navitimers with 7750 movements are in this price range, sapphire crystal datejusts, 36mm explorers, 36mm oyster perpetuals, several variants of the Omega Seamaster 300, the Planet Ocean, Seamaster 300 Master Co-axial, Breitling heritage divers, several IWC pilot watches, certain Panerai Radiomirs etc. etc.
> 
> I don't understand the obsession with this watch. Sure it's a nice watch but so are all the others I listed which are similarly priced. This watch by no means has the $3,500 price range dominated.


Agreed. Lots of competition in this price bracket when I think about it more.


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## vkalia (Oct 26, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> BB58 is the less wealthy person's route to the iconic Submariner.


Is that why you want it, or is it because you like it in its own right?

It may look similar, but on the wrist, it is significantly different from the Sub and IMO, not for the better: it is chunkier and doesnt look as refined/versatile (Rolex does a very good job in differentiating its product lines).

IMO: get the BB58 if you like it in its own right - dont get it as a Sub-stitute.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

mui.richard said:


> If the Nomos looks like that on your wrist, then a 34mm Oyster case will not look small on you at all.
> 
> But then of course, my motto is always wear what you like and size be damned.
> 
> Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk











42mm Stowa ahhahaha


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> BB58 is the less wealthy person's route to the iconic Submariner.


I disagree, I think it's a route to a Tudor Black Bay. There are some similarities but it's a different company, different movement and different aesthetics. Just because there is some sort of tenuous link with the Rolex Submariner doesn't make it superior to all of the other great dive watches in this price range.


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## pinkybrain (Oct 26, 2011)

imaCoolRobot said:


> BB58 is the less wealthy person's route to the iconic Submariner.


Not necessarily when compared to the Sub C. But yes when compared to a vintage 5513.

If I had all the money in the world, it would be NOS 5513 > BB58 > SubC. In fact, if I had all the money in the world I'd still be in the market for a BB58 but NOT a SubC. I just don't like the SubC.

The Black Bays, IMHO, are nothing like the current Submariners. Domed crystal, matte dial, thin lugs...you know the drill by now.

But about once a year a NOS acrylic 5513 shows up on Chrono24. If I buy the BB58 over a new 5513 it _IS_ because it's cheaper - roughly $3,500 compared to over $20,000 (WGS) or $30,000 (matte). So I guess you have a point there.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

vkalia said:


> Is that why you want it, or is it because you like it in its own right?
> 
> It may look similar, but on the wrist, it is significantly different from the Sub and IMO, not for the better: it is chunkier and doesnt look as refined/versatile (Rolex does a very good job in differentiating its product lines).
> 
> IMO: get the BB58 if you like it in its own right - dont get it as a Sub-stitute.


I do like it. But I've never seen one in person. There's a waitlist at the local AD.

I wish Grand Seiko had a 39mm diver.


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## seedubs1 (Dec 22, 2017)

chillwill120 said:


> I disagree, I think it's a route to a Tudor Black Bay. There are some similarities but it's a different company, different movement and different aesthetics. Just because there is some sort of tenuous link with the Rolex Submariner doesn't make it superior to all of the other great dive watches in this price range.


Agreed. I think it's silly to say a BB is a cheap Sub. The new versions are not the same watch, and don't even look similar.

I'm kind of tired of every single dive watch being a "poor person's Sub."


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

seedubs1 said:


> Agreed. I think it's silly to say a BB is a cheap Sub. The new versions are not the same watch, and don't even look similar.
> 
> I'm kind of tired of every single dive watch being a "poor person's Sub."










not all


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

imaCoolRobot said:


> BB58 is the less wealthy person's route to the iconic Submariner.


I can't see the BB58 as a modern sub alternative. They're really different in a world of I admit all divers have some similarities. I don't have the 58 but my black bay has never once made me think about rolex other than I do believe the bracelet is really exceptionally well made much like the rolex (without their better clasp). Then again my black bay has a red bezel...so that's a factor.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

mui.richard said:


> I think OP already made his point no? 21% of 3,500 is $735 to be exact, I don't think that's a biggie
> 
> Besides, Sam has a small wrist so I think the 34mm is more or less perfect for him.
> 
> Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


Fair enough. 735 bucks is a LOT of money if we're talking 3,500. When I hear spend more and a budget set in the very expensive but not insanely expensive range, I'm thinking they can stretch to maybe 3750, not over 4k. 735 would get you a decent new laptop!


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

DustinS said:


> Fair enough. 735 bucks is a LOT of money if we're talking 3,500. When I hear spend more and a budget set in the very expensive but not insanely expensive range, I'm thinking they can stretch to maybe 3750, not over 4k. 735 would get you a decent new laptop!


This watch is to be my capstone piece. End Game.
~Fin~
(except for the occasional GShock)
I'd like to keep it in the ballpark but if there is something truly special for a bit more...sure
$735 for a decent new laptop? what?
I have to eventually replace my iMac before then...and I've budgeted like $2500-$3000 for that exercise. 
My current computer is a fully specced top of the line iMac from late 2013.
my iPad Pro costs more than $735.

I'm completely willing to take my time with the watch because I don't need it. I just kinda would like a nice dive watch to cap off this journey.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

imaCoolRobot said:


> This watch is to be my capstone piece. End Game.
> ~Fin~
> (except for the occasional GShock)
> I'd like to keep it in the ballpark but if there is something truly special for a bit more...sure
> ...


I don't think apple prices any of their products to be "decent". They are all priced as premium or ultra premium. 3k for a laptop should be pretty much the best money can buy without it being a work station / super high end gaming system. Just a quick look for 700 bucks you can get an 8th gen i5, a non integrated graphics card, 8 gigs of ram, an 256 GB SSD, windows 10 pro (so not even the home edition), 1080 screen resolution...if that's not decent I don't know what is. Heck that's more than decent.


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## Watcher0 (Oct 19, 2018)

I think you should look into the Tag Heuer Monaco chrono, its an amazing watch with great heritage and also versatile.


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## pinkybrain (Oct 26, 2011)

imaCoolRobot said:


> This watch is to be my capstone piece. End Game.
> ~Fin~


Oh, my inner WIS voice says that all the time. All the time. But you'll be back. And no watch is going to stop you and your incurable disease.

Let me begin: 
"My name is Pinkybrain and I have a problem"
"Hello Pinkybrain"
"My name is...


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## TJ Boogie (May 14, 2015)

Yes, I'd probably go with a pre-owned Explorer I. Prices are coming down on those, and if you wait for the right one, you can find one on the Rolex forum. Or just an Omega Speedmaster.

The 58's a gorgeous watch, don't get me wrong. It's lost some of its luster however, as I regard it.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

DustinS said:


> I don't think apple prices any of their products to be "decent". They are all priced as premium or ultra premium. 3k for a laptop should be pretty much the best money can buy without it being a work station / super high end gaming system. Just a quick look for 700 bucks you can get an 8th gen i5, a non integrated graphics card, 8 gigs of ram, an 256 GB SSD, windows 10 pro (so not even the home edition), 1080 screen resolution...if that's not decent I don't know what is. Heck that's more than decent.


Prffft that's not decent. 
My idea of decent laptop begins with an i9 chip. 32GB of RAM 
8GB VRAM. 512 PCIe SSD.

my 5 year old iMac has a 4th gen i7 Haswell, 32GB RAM and a 512GB SSD.

oh back to watches
I'm also partially considering a GrandSeiko SBGV007 (used)


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

imaCoolRobot said:


> Prffft that's not decent.
> My idea of decent laptop begins with an i9 chip. 32GB of RAM
> 8GB VRAM. 512 PCIe SSD.
> 
> ...


Patek's are decent watches...got it. 

BTW those are crazy specs for .... and movies in bed/the tub. What is your desktop like!!!!


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

DustinS said:


> Patek's are decent watches...got it.
> 
> BTW those are crazy specs for .... and movies in bed/the tub. What is your desktop like!!!!


I'm a retoucher. I have an old iMac 27" with a 3.5GHz Haswell

I've been putting off getting a new watch because I'd like a new computer first.

27" iMac 5k display 
Probably with 64gb of ram and an 8th gen i7

I keep feeling tempted to build my own pc but I love MacOS
Hackintosh sounds too risky and I don't want to spend time messing around.

Also, can't wait for photoshop full version to come to the iPad Pro.

Looks like it's narrowed to BlackBay 58, Rolex 14270, Grand Seiko SBGV007, and Omega Seamaster 300M coaxial.

I do not want a Speedy.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

imaCoolRobot said:


> I'm a retoucher. I have an old iMac 27" with a 3.5GHz Haswell
> 
> I've been putting off getting a new watch because I'd like a new computer first.
> 
> ...


Personally can't stand mac's OS and their prices make me laugh. My desktop is what I do everything on and then my laptop is just to watch movies and what not. My dad however is a professional photographer...he's doing just fine with a first gen i7 still at work! It was one of the "extreme's" or whatever it was at the time vs the standard versions. And these pads and phones...I really can't understand how anyone uses them to do much of anything. Email are hard enough for me to send on my phone.

Anyway that's one heck of a diverse set of watches. two divers and two sports watches both a bit on the dressy side of the sports watch world. I can't imagine taking the 300M over the blackbay especially with that HE valve (I don't know why Omega keeps putting that on watches, especially one with just 300 M water resistance). From there if this were to be my one great watch....I'd have to have a display back, but that's just me.


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## Bamy (Oct 19, 2018)

Try on the Omega SMPc, i'm sure you would love it.


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## kepa (Jan 29, 2016)

hungdangnguyen23 said:


> That guy kepa or whatever his name is who said 14270 prices aren't coming down is straight trippin. They most definitely are, I've been looking daily for the better part of 5-6 months straight and have no reason to fabricate this, unlike an Exp1 owner who would like to believe his investment is appreciating.
> 
> The 1st attachment is of a screenshot of a watchrecon search today. Those listings would have started in the $4.5-5K about 6 months ago, they're in the low 4's today. There's still a clean series A on bracelet up for grabs at $3.75K. And we all know these are starting points for a negotiation, knock off at least a couple hundred bucks from listed price.
> 
> Let's go back slightly farther - the 2nd attachment is a screenshot from listings within the past 2 months. 3 separate listings for 14270s in the $3.5K range and another at $3.9K.


Maybe it's a regional thing. Here in Hong Kong, I bought my 14270 (which I no longer have by the way so I am NOT a 14270 owner who thinks his investment is appreciating) 2 years ago for USD 3.2k. Now, in used shops, you can't find them under $4.3k. So here in HK, they most certainly are increasing in price (maybe not amongst private sellers, but it's a matter of time I believe). I'm not an owner trying to fabricate some narrative to fit increase the value of a watch or a "liar", which you seem to be insinuating, just giving what I see here locally (which usually reflects the trend worldwide).


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## CastorTroy3 (Dec 24, 2015)

imaCoolRobot said:


> BB58 is the less wealthy person's route to the iconic Submariner.


These comments are always ridiculous to me. I can go out and buy a Sub right now but I Ike the BB better. I'm not saying the BB is better. I just prefer it. Why is that so hard for some people to understand.

Now if you are saying the Hulk...well the Sub is one I really like. I'll take that over the BB.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CastorTroy3 (Dec 24, 2015)

chillwill120 said:


> Navitimers with 7750 movements are in this price range, sapphire crystal datejusts, 36mm explorers, 36mm oyster perpetuals, several variants of the Omega Seamaster 300, the Planet Ocean, Seamaster 300 Master Co-axial, Breitling heritage divers, several IWC pilot watches, certain Panerai Radiomirs etc. etc.
> 
> I don't understand the obsession with this watch. Sure it's a nice watch but so are all the others I listed which are similarly priced. This watch by no means has the $3,500 price range dominated.


Hey you're not the first one to put this comment out there. I said the same thing. The population of amazing watches at $2,500-4,500 is endless.

If you limit it and say $2,500 - $4,500 diver personally I think the only two options are BB or SOH II. I think these two beat the competition in the diver category.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

CastorTroy3 said:


> Hey your no the first one to put this comment out there. I said the same thing. The population of amazing watches at $2,500-4,500 is endless.
> 
> If you limit it and say $2,500 - $4,500 diver personally I think the only two options are BB or SOH II. I think these two beat the competition in the diver category.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Breitling makes me go yuck.
I'd take the Omega SM300 CoAxial







but alas it's above the budget by a considerable amount...and not that much better than the BB58.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

I see these go routinely for under $4k.



imaCoolRobot said:


> Breitling makes me go yuck.
> I'd take the Omega SM300 CoAxial
> View attachment 13630985
> 
> but alas it's above the budget by a considerable amount...and not that much better than the BB58.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

double post


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

CastorTroy3 said:


> Hey your no the first one to put this comment out there. I said the same thing. The population of amazing watches at $2,500-4,500 is endless.
> 
> If you limit it and say $2,500 - $4,500 diver personally I think the only two options are BB or SOH II. I think these two beat the competition in the diver category.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think the Omega Seamaster 300 Master Co-Axial, the Planet Ocean, the Seiko SLA017 are all great alternatives.


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## 14060 (Nov 27, 2010)

You might look at the Seiko Prospex Marinemaster models or a used Girard-Perregaux Sea Hawk Pro.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

chillwill120 said:


> I think the Omega Seamaster 300 Master Co-Axial, the Planet Ocean, the Seiko SLA017 are all great alternatives.


SLA017 would be a great alternative if it did not cost MORE...(much more) than a BlackBay58
If it was like $2000 to $2500, the SLA017 would be a great watch.
At $4000+ it's just ridiculous.


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## CastorTroy3 (Dec 24, 2015)

chillwill120 said:


> I see these go routinely for under $4k.


This is a good alternative. As is the PO. these watches are definitely on par. I find the PO a little chunky. I'm not all the interested by the SM. Different strokes for different folks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

14060 said:


> used Girard-Perregaux Sea Hawk Pro.


oh man! that is chunky looking.
I just want a dressy dive watch.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

14060 said:


> used Girard-Perregaux Sea Hawk Pro.


oh man! that is chunky looking.
I just want a dressy dive watch.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

CastorTroy3 said:


> This is a good alternative. As is the PO. these watches are definitely on par. I find the PO a little chunky. I'm not all the interested by the SM. Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


PO 2500 has a reasonable thickness. I love it with the orange bezel .


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> SLA017 would be a great alternative if it did not cost MORE...(much more) than a BlackBay58
> If it was like $2000 to $2500, the SLA017 would be a great watch.
> At $4000+ it's just ridiculous.


Have prices gone up? I used to see them for like $3.5k.


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## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

I think the regular black bay is pretty darned sexy


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## RDK (Mar 11, 2011)

Planet Ocean 2500, well under $ 3500:


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## wuyeah (Apr 24, 2007)

imaCoolRobot said:


> oh man! that is chunky looking.
> I just want a dressy dive watch.


Always wanted one but some other watches always cut in first. It is still on my list with the 38.5mm. Under 3K used.


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## wuyeah (Apr 24, 2007)

mui.richard said:


> I got the 16014 in 2012, I was 45...thought that's all the watch I needed. I didn't know better apparently.
> 
> In 2013, I bought my first brand-new 214270 Explorer and within 4 months I got the 216570 Explorer II...currently I have 6 Rolexes.
> 
> ...


addictive!? I would called it a GOOD LIFE!


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## Tomatoes11 (Feb 17, 2015)

I am waiting for the Pelagos 40 or the 38mm good planet titanium edition of the new AT’s myself. I think both will come out eventually.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

RDK said:


> Planet Ocean 2500, well under $ 3500:


Love that watch. I'd take it over a blackbay 58; better water resistance, cheaper, date function and better looks (imo). I also just prefer Omega as a brand.


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## gordonhurst (Nov 6, 2009)

BB58 is a great combination of features at a great price. However, you have to like the snowflake hour hand. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Awesom-O 4000 (Sep 20, 2018)

gordonhurst said:


> BB58 is a great combination of features at a great price. However, you have to like the snowflake hour hand.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, I don't mind it. I would love to own a Black Bay, any version, but my wife thinks the snowflake hand is the ugliest thing on the planet. I'd never hear the end of it.


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## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

I think the new Aqua Terras are gorgeous, particularly this silver dial. If I didn't have a datejust I'd have considered it.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

41Mets said:


> I think the new Aqua Terras are gorgeous, particularly this silver dial. If I didn't have a datejust I'd have considered it.


I was so so close to making a bad decision and buying that. They were even offering to brush the hideous polished center links. Not sure what the price drop would be, but I think we're looking at a decent bit over 4k still new at a discount. I'm not sure how fast that model is going to drop in price. It's awfully good looking.

I'm actually not sure I won't end up with one, and between my Tag and two GSs....and heck my cock tale seiko...I have ZERO need for that watch. But that grey is special and the blue metalic hands are stunning. I do wonder if it'll look as nice outside the show room lights though.


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## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

DustinS said:


> I was so so close to making a bad decision and buying that. They were even offering to brush the hideous polished center links. Not sure what the price drop would be, but I think we're looking at a decent bit over 4k still new at a discount. I'm not sure how fast that model is going to drop in price. It's awfully good looking.
> 
> I'm actually not sure I won't end up with one, and between my Tag and two GSs....and heck my cock tale seiko...I have ZERO need for that watch. But that grey is special and the blue metalic hands are stunning. I do wonder if it'll look as nice outside the show room lights though.


Agree about the center links. They are really really polished. More than my datejust.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

41Mets said:


> Agree about the center links. They are really really polished. More than my datejust.


wow, I've not really handled the datejust much. But they come off as pretty polished and blingy. The real annoyance is that they do the same polish on their vintage divers...whoever told omega that was a good idea needs to get a talking to. I will say when I voiced that complaint when these new horizontal teaks came out, the sales guy said that they'd actually been a selling point for a lot of buyers. No clue if that was a sales technique but he seemed like a pretty straight shooter and knew his stuff.


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## wbird (Feb 25, 2015)

I just handled the Tudors, put them next to the Breitling Superoceans and Colts. I think the Breitling's have a variety of models in that style, that are nicer in that price range. Not to say that the Tudors aren't nice, I just think the Breitling's are better. 

Heck when it comes to chronographs even Tudor thinks they are pretty good, why else would they use Breitling movements.


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## Btreichel87 (Jan 20, 2016)

I would agree with you if the PO wasnt so big. 3mm is a huge difference for a guy with 6.5" wrists. If it were 40mm instead of 42mm, is have to give the PO 2500 a serious look. Imo, it's a much better looking and better proportioned watch than the new PO.


chillwill120 said:


> Love that watch. I'd take it over a blackbay 58; better water resistance, cheaper, date function and better looks (imo). I also just prefer Omega as a brand.


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## vkalia (Oct 26, 2014)

Sam, this thread pushed me over the edge. I have bought the Oris 65 bronze bezel - will collect it in a couple of weeks.


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## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

DustinS said:


> But that grey is special and the blue metalic hands are stunning. I do wonder if it'll look as nice outside the show room lights though.


Actually, I'm fairly positive that the blued hands would not glisten outside of the jewelry store lighting the same way.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

Another $3k candidate, and NO OTHER manufacturer in this price bracket will come close in terms of finishing par excellence!

Grand Seiko SBGR251









Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Btreichel87 said:


> I would agree with you if the PO wasnt so big. 3mm is a huge difference for a guy with 6.5" wrists. If it were 40mm instead of 42mm, is have to give the PO 2500 a serious look. Imo, it's a much better looking and better proportioned watch than the new PO.


The 42mm is a measurement across the fat part of the case which includes the bumps that forms the crown guards.
The bezel itself is 40mm.

In essence, the case is asymmetric, being a 40mm round watch head (with lugs) that has a bump to cover the crown.

It isn't a 42mm watch in the usual sense.


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## Btreichel87 (Jan 20, 2016)

Good to know. Do you by chance know how thick this watch is? That is another attractive thing about the BB58 for me.


drunken monkey said:


> The 42mm is a measurement across the fat part of the case which includes the bumps that forms the crown guards.
> The bezel itself is 40mm.
> 
> In essence, the case is asymmetric, being a 40mm round watch head (with lugs) that has a bump to cover the crown.
> ...


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## sillo38 (Nov 10, 2014)

Btreichel87 said:


> Good to know. Do you by chance know how thick this watch is? That is another attractive thing about the BB58 for me.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


It's pretty thick. That was the reason I went with the 2254 instead of 2201. I think the PO is around 14-15mm thick.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pinkybrain (Oct 26, 2011)

*edit: I see I was so eager to correct your mistake I failed to notice someone already corrected it for me.

----

The PO 2500 *IS* 40 mm. The bezel is 40 mm, but Omega counts the integrated crown guard in the width measurement. Visually it's the same size as the Submariner.



Btreichel87 said:


> I would agree with you if the PO wasnt so big. 3mm is a huge difference for a guy with 6.5" wrists. If it were 40mm instead of 42mm, is have to give the PO 2500 a serious look. Imo, it's a much better looking and better proportioned watch than the new PO.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## Btreichel87 (Jan 20, 2016)

Yeah see I was just looking at other 40mm speedmasters and they are 15mm thick. That's unbelievable. What a puck. The black bay 58 comes in at under 12mm.

3mm of case diameter reduction makes a big difference to a slim wristed guy. 3 mm of case thickness reduction is an epiphany.

Ever since they started making their own in house co-axial movements, all Omega watches are way too thick. Wonder if they'll ever wise up.


sillo38 said:


> It's pretty thick. That was the reason I went with the 2254 instead of 2201. I think the PO is around 14-15mm thick.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## Berty234 (Aug 1, 2016)

Btreichel87 said:


> Yeah see I was just looking at other 40mm speedmasters and they are 15mm thick. That's unbelievable. What a puck. The black bay 58 comes in at under 12mm.
> 
> 3mm of case diameter reduction makes a big difference to a slim wristed guy. 3 mm of case thickness reduction is an epiphany.
> 
> ...


The Speedmaster FOIS (39.7mm) doesn't wear like a 14mm watch, especially with a thickish leather strap on it. It's a worthy contender for the slimmer wrist. Still can't fault the BB58 though, total stunner.


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## Juclaq (Aug 15, 2018)

I would see if you can snag a vintage datejust. More bang for your buck


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Juclaq said:


> I would see if you can snag a vintage datejust. More bang for your buck


Vintage Datejust is literally less bang for buck.
Out of date movement, using last generation materials selling at a premium because of the brand.


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## Buschyfor3 (Nov 12, 2018)

Berty234 said:


> The Speedmaster FOIS (39.7mm) doesn't wear like a 14mm watch, especially with a thickish leather strap on it. It's a worthy contender for the slimmer wrist. Still can't fault the BB58 though, total stunner.


Yes, I was thinking exactly this since I am he of the slimmer wrists haha.

I'm smitten by the BB58, so it is my first choice to purchase here in the next 6 months. But there is only one AD locally and their timeline for getting any models (nato, leather or bracelet) on the showroom floor that aren't already spoken for is up in the air. I really would like to see it in the metal before pulling the trigger (or more likely having to put my name on the waitlist for the bracelet model).

BUT... and this is a tough one... I can more readily acquire a brand new FOIS with full set (inc. the full 5 year warranty), and at a price that is just fractionally above the BB58 on bracelet's RRP.

It's tempting because I know I want both watches in the end, and they both tick all of the boxes for what I want in my very small collection (versatile tool watch functions; capable of being dressed up/down, yet won't look out of place with a suit; strap monsters that look good on any type of strap; quality and heritage; watches that I would want to keep for the long haul - I see them as "grails" even though others may disagree with me on that point). I would still like to see if Tudor releases any additional color variants of the BB58 in the new year, but I don't want to hold out and end up that much further down the waitlist, or worse, see a price bump kick in! In any case, I know there are worse problems to have than to have to decide between either of these two great watches.


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## RacingGreen II (Nov 29, 2018)

With the caveat that we’re in the world of watches where value is relative, the Tudor Black Bay is astonishing. In the UK, a black bay is £1000 less than a second generation superocean heritage, which uses a Tudor movement. It’s also around £900 cheaper than a speedy pro, my previous benchmark for value.

If Tudor exploit the movement in the BB58 to downsize other models in their range if the trend to smaller pieces gains legs, they are in a very strong position.


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## RacingGreen II (Nov 29, 2018)

Berty234 said:


> The Speedmaster FOIS (39.7mm) doesn't wear like a 14mm watch, especially with a thickish leather strap on it. It's a worthy contender for the slimmer wrist. Still can't fault the BB58 though, total stunner.


Speedy Pro and I assume FOIS are a lot thinner than specs suggests because the given height includes domed crystal. This isn't 'present' the way the same girth in the case would be. I have a 8500 P.O. and it simply dwarfs the speedy side by side. In fact I've got tired of it's bigness...not diameter but thickness and it's gettimf retired in favour of a BB58. The standard BB , conversely, isn't much slimmer looking, if at all, compared to the P.O. Once more the raw stats are misleading as the slab side of the BB bulks it up versus the contours of the planet ocean.


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## RacingGreen II (Nov 29, 2018)

chillwill120 said:


> Navitimers with 7750 movements are in this price range, sapphire crystal datejusts, 36mm explorers, 36mm oyster perpetuals, several variants of the Omega Seamaster 300, the Planet Ocean, Seamaster 300 Master Co-axial, Breitling heritage divers, several IWC pilot watches, certain Panerai Radiomirs etc. etc.
> 
> I don't understand the obsession with this watch. Sure it's a nice watch but so are all the others I listed which are similarly priced. This watch by no means has the $3,500 price range dominated.


If that is true, then there is remarkable variation in prices around the world. In the UK, if you can find one, a BB58 on bracelet is around £2600. A Breitling heritage diver with a Tudor movement is a grand more, a P.O. two grand more, ditto a Breitling 7750, a PAM three grand to sky's the limit, and the rest you name are in that range or higher. Perhaps you are comparing new with used, but that's not really apples to apples. Are prices really that different elsewhere ?


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## watchsignal (Sep 12, 2018)

I think speedmaster is the best option at that price range, that's my choice.


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## Buschyfor3 (Nov 12, 2018)

RacingGreen II said:


> If that is true, then there is remarkable variation in prices around the world. In the UK, if you can find one, a BB58 on bracelet is around £2600.


Interesting price note. With current exchange rates to USD, that makes the bracelet version in the UK roughly $250 cheaper than the bracelet version stateside (at retail). It almost puts the bracelet version on par price wise with the nato/leather options here (only about $75 more than what they list at retail). Of course, once you factor in shipping and customs for a US based buyer, it's more expensive to import one from the UK. Still goes to your point of price variation though.


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## RacingGreen II (Nov 29, 2018)

Buschyfor3 said:


> Interesting price note. With current exchange rates to USD, that makes the bracelet version in the UK roughly $250 cheaper than the bracelet version stateside (at retail). It almost puts the bracelet version on par price wise with the nato/leather options here (only about $75 more than what they list at retail). Of course, once you factor in shipping and customs for a US based buyer, it's more expensive to import one from the UK. Still goes to your point of price variation though.


An AD told me the other week that UK prices are currently the best in the world due to some exchange rate consequence: he expects brands to correct for it in the new year.

Makes a change mind you, as everything here is generally expensive vs the US and other parts of Europe.


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## dron_jones (Jan 2, 2016)

Speedy pro but this is such a subjective question


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zyklon (Jan 28, 2015)

seedubs1 said:


> Agreed. I think it's silly to say a BB is a cheap Sub. The new versions are not the same watch, and don't even look similar.
> 
> I'm kind of tired of every single dive watch being a "poor person's Sub."





imaCoolRobot said:


> View attachment 13627737
> 
> not all


That's a very nice "rich person's Sub" :-!


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## briang583 (Mar 25, 2014)

imaCoolRobot said:


> Breitling makes me go yuck.
> I'd take the Omega SM300 CoAxial
> View attachment 13630985
> 
> but alas it's above the budget by a considerable amount...and not that much better than the BB58.


But again, what is better? I think that watch is far "better" than the BB58 as I don't like the BB58 at all. I agree that I would take the SM300, Oris sixty, maybe an MKII diver (possibly GMT), Grand Seikos and and and over the BB58. But, you are not me so.......

p.s. I really like what you have already and I would wear the Nomos every day before this particular Tudor.


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## ReasonDrab (Mar 20, 2014)

I love the BB58 but I'm skeptical of their in-house movements. I spoke to a local watchmaker who told me they are very particular about sharing parts with watchmakers with the Tudor in-house movements because they want customers to send their watches back to Rolex for an $800 premium service. 

I appreciate the new case dimensions but I don't see what was wrong with the ETA version, which can be serviced locally for $100. I think it's less than one mm thicker. Tudor didn't have to make their own movement to make the watch smaller.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

ReasonDrab said:


> I love the BB58 but I'm skeptical of their in-house movements. I spoke to a local watchmaker who told me they are very particular about sharing parts with watchmakers with the Tudor in-house movements because they want customers to send their watches back to Rolex for an $800 premium service.
> 
> I appreciate the new case dimensions but I don't see what was wrong with the ETA version, which can be serviced locally for $100. I think it's less than one mm thicker. Tudor didn't have to make their own movement to make the watch smaller.


Wow you just have absolutely no idea what you're talking about do you?

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

briang583 said:


> But again, what is better? I think that watch is far "better" than the BB58 as I don't like the BB58 at all. I agree that I would take the SM300, Oris sixty, maybe an MKII diver (possibly GMT), Grand Seikos and and and over the BB58. But, you are not me so.......
> 
> p.s. I really like what you have already and I would wear the Nomos every day before this particular Tudor.


I'll give you the SM300 but a MK II? Get real.

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

ReasonDrab said:


> I love the BB58 but I'm skeptical of their in-house movements. I spoke to a local watchmaker who told me they are very particular about sharing parts with watchmakers with the Tudor in-house movements because they want customers to send their watches back to Rolex for an $800 premium service.
> 
> I appreciate the new case dimensions but I don't see what was wrong with the ETA version, which can be serviced locally for $100. I think it's less than one mm thicker. Tudor didn't have to make their own movement to make the watch smaller.


All indications I've seen show that Tudor servicing prices are very competitive and rather affordable. Nowhere near 800 bucks.

The ETA has a 38 hour power reserve the new movement 72 hours. I don't know about you, but 38 hours sucks, 72 hours is great (passes the weekend test easily!).


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## briang583 (Mar 25, 2014)

mui.richard said:


> I'll give you the SM300 but a MK II? Get real.
> 
> Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


No room for personal preference?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

briang583 said:


> No room for personal preference?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Yes there always is. I'm just not sure how our own personal preference would help OP in the context of this thread.

And both objectively and subjectively I just don't see how any MK II, which is a glorified pet project watch, stand to compare to a major player's offerings like those already mentioned in this thread...let alone the Tudor BB58 that OP is considering.

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


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## briang583 (Mar 25, 2014)

mui.richard said:


> Yes there always is. I'm just not sure how our own personal preference would help OP in the context of this thread.
> 
> And both objectively and subjectively I just don't see how any MK II, which is a glorified pet project watch, stand to compare to a major player's offerings like those already mentioned in this thread...let alone the Tudor BB58 that OP is considering.
> 
> Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


Ok, cool story

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## Camdamonium (Feb 7, 2017)

Breitling Superocean Heritage 46 Chronograph or Chronomat Blackbird by far.


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## sillo38 (Nov 10, 2014)

Camdamonium said:


> Breitling Superocean Heritage 46 Chronograph or Chronomat Blackbird by far.


I thought this was serious, but than you said "by far" so it has to be a joke.


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## Camdamonium (Feb 7, 2017)

sillo38 said:


> I thought this was serious, but than you said "by far" so it has to be a joke.


Personal opinion, not a joke. Exactly what the thread started wanted, opinions. Have owned a Tudor and had a few on wrist. Prefer the Breitling counterparts. The Blackbird is pretty indestructible and is incredibly versatile, can wear it with everything. The SOH is one of the hottest watches of 2017 and 2018.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

DustinS said:


> All indications I've seen show that Tudor servicing prices are very competitive and rather affordable. Nowhere near 800 bucks.
> 
> The ETA has a 38 hour power reserve the new movement 72 hours. I don't know about you, but 38 hours sucks, 72 hours is great (passes the weekend test easily!).


I got a service estimate from Rolex a few years ago for a Tudor with an ETA movement and the price was $700.


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## Tman3000 (May 12, 2015)

Camdamonium said:


> Personal opinion, not a joke. Exactly what the thread started wanted, opinions. Have owned a Tudor and had a few on wrist. Prefer the Breitling counterparts. The Blackbird is pretty indestructible and is incredibly versatile, can wear it with everything. The SOH is one of the hottest watches of 2017 and 2018.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think size was a big factor for the OP. So some of those Breitlings might be a little too large considering his wrist size.

Personally I really like the super ocean, especially on that mesh bracelet. I'm hoping I get to handle one in person one of these days

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

ReasonDrab said:


> I love the BB58 but I'm skeptical of their in-house movements. I spoke to a local watchmaker who told me they are very particular about sharing parts with watchmakers with the Tudor in-house movements because they want customers to send their watches back to Rolex for an $800 premium service.
> 
> I appreciate the new case dimensions but I don't see what was wrong with the ETA version, which can be serviced locally for $100. I think it's less than one mm thicker. Tudor didn't have to make their own movement to make the watch smaller.


The ETA version is thinner than the in-house movement version.

As for parts availability, I assume it's no more onerous than what it required to get a Rolex parts account, which requires you to be an AWCI CW21 certified watchmaker, and have proper equipment. I think it's even more challenging to become certified for an Omega parts account, since it requires training on servicing the co-axial escapement, which has very different (and precise) oiling requirements compared to a Swiss lever escapement.


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## The Dark Knight (May 14, 2012)

Well "better" is somewhat subjective so I can only provide my opinion. I touched upon this on another thread, but the street price for the newer Omega SMP 300M seems to be trending around $3500 already. Helps in comparison because both are divers. The SMP has better water resistance, the use of better materials like ceramic, and also now features an in-house movement. More controversial, but my personal opinion is Omega as a brand has slightly more prestige/cache than Tudor, for what that's worth.


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## Pavad (Oct 25, 2018)

Very sure there are used watches around that price, so dig in more for other offers that could suit you more.


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## pinkybrain (Oct 26, 2011)

chillwill120 said:


> I got a service estimate from Rolex a few years ago for a Tudor with an ETA movement and the price was $700.


I believe the estimate I got was $800, but that was years ago. I own a Tudor North Flag, and if someone knows where - 8 years from now if all goes well - I can get it serviced by an authorized Rolex service center in the USA for about $400 to $500 please let me know.


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## Camdamonium (Feb 7, 2017)

Tman3000 said:


> I think size was a big factor for the OP. So some of those Breitlings might be a little too large considering his wrist size.
> 
> Personally I really like the super ocean, especially on that mesh bracelet. I'm hoping I get to handle one in person one of these days
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk


Understood. 100% recommend trying one if you can- great watch at the budget in my opinion. I like them, I've never met someone who does not after seeing/wearing in person.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

chillwill120 said:


> I got a service estimate from Rolex a few years ago for a Tudor with an ETA movement and the price was $700.


wow, I've seen multiple places listing the pricing at 200-250 range for official servicing. Was there possibly other issues?


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## kyle1234c (Mar 30, 2017)

This so subjective. Personally I have had two tudors and found them devoid of personality and lacking finer details. Although solid, they were slabs of steel and quite unwieldy for the price. I would much rather a grand seiko or nomos even if just to avoid the lady gaga/beckam connection. That doesn't make me right though.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

kyle1234c said:


> This so subjective. Personally I have had two tudors and found them devoid of personality and lacking finer details. Although solid, they were slabs of steel and quite unwieldy for the price. I would much rather a grand seiko or nomos even if just to avoid the lady gaga/beckam connection. That doesn't make me right though.


Nomos vs Tudor...that's an interesting discussion. Nomos are far nicer but they're "lesser" watches in terms of well what they do. Nomos aren't diver watches, they're not steel bracelets, they're thinner simpler watches (for the most part).

Now mind you I own GS, Tudor, and Nomos so I love this grouping, though my GS's were at least for retail pretty far above this price point. I think the Tudor offers the better value than a Nomos at this price, but to be honest I'd get a nomos first as I did. GS, well they're on a whole other level. I forget there are some GSs still that you might possibly get at this price. That said the Tudor is more rugged.


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## kyle1234c (Mar 30, 2017)

DustinS said:


> kyle1234c said:
> 
> 
> > This so subjective. Personally I have had two tudors and found them devoid of personality and lacking finer details. Although solid, they were slabs of steel and quite unwieldy for the price. I would much rather a grand seiko or nomos even if just to avoid the lady gaga/beckam connection. That doesn't make me right though.
> ...


You have very similar taste to me! I would disagree with the idea of the tudor being more complex than the nomos though. Sure, it is more rugged, but so are dirt cheap seiko divers so Im not sure that is necessarily a consideration of expense. The thinness, the beauty of that decorated movement, the curvature of the case, all add up to the nomos being more 'complex' in my view. I do take your point though and clearly if you are after a diver then a nomos is not going to do it for you.

Also on price though, I got my grand seiko sbgr053 for £1550 a year old and absolutely mint. I had come from a black bay 36 which I had sold for about the same price and the GS literally blows it out of the water in every way. Admittedly, I got a good deal, but GS doesnt have to be out of consideration. My nomos is a ludwig which again I got one year old and mint for £650 with saphire caseback (again a lucky find) and I love it. The movement is a beauty. I got both watches for less than a new bb 58. I know what I would rather. In fact, I have just added a certina action ds precidrive for £200 so that is 3 watches of fantastic quality meeting all of my needs for £2400 or less than a black bay 58. It doesnt appear such a bargain now!


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

kyle1234c said:


> You have very similar taste to me! I would disagree with the idea of the tudor being more complex than the nomos though. Sure, it is more rugged, but so are dirt cheap seiko divers so Im not sure that is necessarily a consideration of expense. The thinness, the beauty of that decorated movement, the curvature of the case, all add up to the nomos being more 'complex' in my view. I do take your point though and clearly if you are after a diver then a nomos is not going to do it for you.


In terms of finishing, a typical Nomos case is fully polished, with no contrasting finishing, no sharp, well-defined edges, so in that sense, it is less complex.


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## kyle1234c (Mar 30, 2017)

mleok said:


> kyle1234c said:
> 
> 
> > You have very similar taste to me! I would disagree with the idea of the tudor being more complex than the nomos though. Sure, it is more rugged, but so are dirt cheap seiko divers so Im not sure that is necessarily a consideration of expense. The thinness, the beauty of that decorated movement, the curvature of the case, all add up to the nomos being more 'complex' in my view. I do take your point though and clearly if you are after a diver then a nomos is not going to do it for you.
> ...


Good point, but is the polishing not true of most dress watches including ones at much higher price points? And I would've thought that curvature such as curved lugs and and a curved case would be more complex to cut from steel than a black bay which has very straight sides for the most part. You may be right though, I am far from an expert! Would love to hear from an expert at working with these materials as I am now quite interested!


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## ACoulson (Mar 26, 2017)

I appear to have very similar tastes to the OP. I have a Nomos Tangente (not a Club) as my most worn watch. I also have a metal version of the G Shock on the way and I am looking out for a field/pilot watch. And I have a similar wrist size. 

I have considered and owned several watches in this price bracket.

I’ve bought and sold two Grand Seikos in the time I have owned my Nomos, and sold both because there wasn’t a situation where the Grand Seiko would be suited that I wouldn’t prefer the Nomos. For suits/shirts the Grand Seiko was too tall, whereas the Nomos fit perfectly. For casual wear the Grand Seiko was too shiny where as the Nomos was perfectly subtle. For evening use the Grand Seiko was harder to read than the Nomos (with light dial and with dark dial models). And all the while the Nomos was (in my very limited case) more accurate than either Grand Seiko, though I guess I have been very lucky.

I too have my eye on the Black Bay 58. The lack of aesthetically pleasing movement finishing does bother me slightly, even with no display back. Otherwise, it appears to be the perfect sports watch in this price bracket (or up to a Sub).

I haven’t seen anything yet that has convinced me (or would convince me if I were the OP) that a Black Bay 58 isn’t the way to go (if I couldn’t afford a Sub, which I can’t).


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

kyle1234c said:


> Good point, but is the polishing not true of most dress watches including ones at much higher price points? And I would've thought that curvature such as curved lugs and and a curved case would be more complex to cut from steel than a black bay which has very straight sides for the most part. You may be right though, I am far from an expert! Would love to hear from an expert at working with these materials as I am now quite interested!


See for yourself


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

kyle1234c said:


> You have very similar taste to me! I would disagree with the idea of the tudor being more complex than the nomos though. Sure, it is more rugged, but so are dirt cheap seiko divers so Im not sure that is necessarily a consideration of expense. The thinness, the beauty of that decorated movement, the curvature of the case, all add up to the nomos being more 'complex' in my view. I do take your point though and clearly if you are after a diver then a nomos is not going to do it for you.
> 
> Also on price though, I got my grand seiko sbgr053 for £1550 a year old and absolutely mint. I had come from a black bay 36 which I had sold for about the same price and the GS literally blows it out of the water in every way. Admittedly, I got a good deal, but GS doesnt have to be out of consideration. My nomos is a ludwig which again I got one year old and mint for £650 with saphire caseback (again a lucky find) and I love it. The movement is a beauty. I got both watches for less than a new bb 58. I know what I would rather. In fact, I have just added a certina action ds precidrive for £200 so that is 3 watches of fantastic quality meeting all of my needs for £2400 or less than a black bay 58. It doesnt appear such a bargain now!


As mleok pointed out the Nomos case is very simple in finishing. The Tudor actually has some contrasting brushed and polished services. The Tudor has a screw down crown. The Tudor on leather has a deployment clasp or is on bracelet with again a more complex clasp vs the very simple buckle on the nomos. The tudor has a rotating bezel. Anyway sure you can do these things at lower price points, but you don't get them as well done at lower price points (well beyond a point). Same brand, you'll pay more for a Tudor than a Nomos in terms of watch styles (diver vs dress).

FYI I bought the nomos largely because of the decorated movement and well in that area the Tudor is no match.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

kyle1234c said:


> Good point, but is the polishing not true of most dress watches including ones at much higher price points? And I would've thought that curvature such as curved lugs and and a curved case would be more complex to cut from steel than a black bay which has very straight sides for the most part. You may be right though, I am far from an expert! Would love to hear from an expert at working with these materials as I am now quite interested!


No, a high quality dress watch typically includes sharp interfaces between finishing of different types, and an excellent brushed finish needs to have an excellent polished surface as a base.


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## ACoulson (Mar 26, 2017)

Posted in error. Deleted.


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## Relio (Oct 9, 2018)

This might be an unpopular opinion due to similarities with a another gmt but for $3,500 I’d go for the Bell and Ross V2-93 GMT. Could probably pay half of that if bought second hand


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