# Core VS Vector/Observer



## jbarn02

Ok, Guys what are some of the pros and cons of each of them and what are your opinions given the recent problems with the cores vs the long standing reliability of the vector/observer.

I personally think the core was rushed to market even there were still buggs to be worked out? What are your opinions?

FYI: I own 2 vectors a yellow and a black one.:thanks


----------



## Jeff_C

You know, I tend to agree. There have been a lot of problems with many of the Cores. I think that had they come out without incident... I would answer differently. If I were going to climb K2 tomorrow, Id take my Observer. I just dont feel 100% confident with my Core. Now, granted, mine has had NO problems and is even more accurate than my Observer... but... by hearing all these issues I have to say, my confidence is a little rocked with the core.

But I will say this again. The technology in the Core is OUTSTANDING and its the best Suunto has put out there. It breaks my heart to hear of so many issues...

I guess my statement wrapped it up... if I were hitting the field for a long journey tomorrow... I may take both... but my Observer would get worn.


----------



## paduncan

jbarn02 said:


> Ok, Guys what are some of the pros and cons of each of them and what are your opinions given the recent problems with the cores vs the long standing reliability of the vector/observer.
> 
> I personally think the core was rushed to market even there were still buggs to be worked out? What are your opinions?
> 
> FYI: I own 2 vectors a yellow and a black one.:thanks


Vector Pros:

Reliable / field tested
Easy to operate
Can view alt and baro without having to change "profiles" (just tap mode button once)
Can manually calibrate sensor
Reads both absolute and sea level pressure
Light
Accurate compass
Easy to calibrate compass
Price (~$150 now)
Vector Cons

Plastic crystal, easy to scratch
Altitude always affected by pressure even when standing still
Min 5M altitude resolution
Seconds reading is a little funky but can be an endearing quality after awhile
Logbooks a little complicated to use
Core Pros

Easy to operate
Looks great
alt stays constant when standing still, and is quite accurate
Nice baro trend graph
Easy to use logbooks
Mineral crystal glass
Light
Accurate compass
Sunrise / sunset feature
Excellent resolution for altitude (1M)
Storm alarm is great feature (but...see below)
Excellent / easy to use log books and alt diff measurement
Seconds display after any button is pushed (I agree with others, who needs this after 10 minutes?)
Core Cons

Some have had battery issues
Some have had issues with losing button sound
Compass has to be "pushed" to calibrate
Can not manually calibrate pressure sensor
Only displays SEA level pressure, not absolute (what the pressure is at your location).
Storm alarm only works in baro mode, not in automatic mode (even when automatic mode has selected baro).
No bubble to let you know the watch is level for compass reading.
Many have reported bezels too hard to turn or too loose
I would like to have seen dedicated menus activated for each mode with center right button, vs. the same menu activated whatever mode you are in...while this is easier to understand, ultimately it leads to more button pushes to do simple things like change alt / baro profile, etc
When in alt mode, you lose the little 6 hour icon that illustrates baro trend.
I would rather have the above features than depth meter which is useless to me.
Backlight flickers when using compass (it does on the Vector also, just not as prominently).


----------



## Jeff_C

paduncans thoughts are right on.


----------



## paduncan

> As far as the Vector, I think your observations are pretty fair and logical. I will add one con, the Vector suffers from barometric drift more than the Core or Observer does.


Can't say that on my end. Once I "synced" up all of my watches, they all track almost exactly the same as far as SEA level pressure goes. You just have to know what you are doing on the vector as far as calibraing in SNR mode, and using SEA level pressure (third option in baro mode) instead of absolute. BTW: I forgot to mention that this is a con with the Vector...having to hit three button presses to view SEA level pressure.



> With the Core info you have there, it seems you loose your objectivity... ON the surface it looks like there are more cons, but several of those are YOUR opinions. (I know I'm being nit-picky here). But here are my thoughts..
> 
> You have "easy to use" listed as a Core pro... but you then go on to give it poor marks in several areas that would make it... Well, not easy to use.


I understand why you would see that. I tried to say that by "centralizing" the watch options menu, no matter where you are, the same menu pops up which makes the watch easy to learn. However, this same approach also makes for uncessary button pushes once you are familiar with the watch. I am sure there was a design trade-off: ease of use vs. button pushes.



> You have a Pro listed in the Vector category as "accurate compass" but you dont list that as a pro for the Core. My core is dead on. And you dont have to "push" the calibration... simply rotate it around a few times and it will auto calibrate. When in doubt... rotate!


I just double checked, and I did list that as a pro. Before hikes, I prefer to SEE how the watch is being calibrated, and when the watch is "happy." which happens on the Vector. On the Core, you never really know that it has been calibrated (little message that says "done") unless you manually push it in sleep mode. I suppose you can always check it against a plate compass for validation. By the way: How do you know the Core is level? Tiliting it a little bit looks like it has a pretty significant impact on the reading, which could be a problem for orienteering. The Vector bubble allows for consistent "reading angle" and eliminates that as an issue for possible error.



> Your comment that "I would rather have the above features than the depth meter" is kind of weird... the above features may have nothing to do with the depth meter. I dont see the connection. But I do agree, that IMHO, the depth meter is a goofy function.


The depth meter occupies ROM, menu complexity, adds uncessary cost etc. If we took away that feature, and added the ones like I listed, I would be happier.



> Is the flickering back light really a con? Does it prevent the use of the device? Annoyance perhaps, but a CON? Certianly not as bad as the Solar Protreks that LOCK lol...


Yes, it is a con. On the Vectors, this issue is barely noticeable. It looks like when this happens in the Core it is seriously draining the battery.



> For someone looking at your list and saying... Wow, thats a lot of cons, I think its misleading because you have the "quirks" listed separately... As if to add more cons. Yes, some have reported some "QC" issues, but others have not.


And others have...battery issues, button sound issues, baro display issues, and so forth.



> Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk... but I just want people to realize that if they just glanced at the NUMBER of pros and cons... some of those (IMHO) should be carefully considered.


Naturally, all opinions on the net should be weighed with others. The poster asked for ours, and I took the time to clearly list out what I feel are pros and cons for both watches, (my opinion).


----------



## Jeff_C

You are right...


----------



## scandium21

It may take 8 button-presses to change the Profile, but if you know your CORE, with the clear text-based menu system that also only takes about 8 seconds or less to do! :-!

Ive done it that fast with thick cycling gloves on.

I dunno...I have also had an X-Lander for a limited amount of time, and I found myself re-reading the manual a lot more than I did with the CORE.

I more read the CORE manual to find out more about what it did, as opposed to the X-Lander where I just couldnt remember which button to press to do what.


----------



## Jeff_C

I like the menu approach. I got used to it with my T3. To me, its more intuitive than trying to remember button combos...

But what do I know?


----------



## paduncan

Jeff_C said:


> I like the menu approach. I got used to it with my T3. To me, its more intuitive than trying to remember button combos...
> 
> But what do I know?


I like the menu approach too. On my T6 (and probably the T3) the menus are different based on what mode you are currently in, so you don't have to scroll through every option on the watch to say, change from baro to alti mode. That is what I believe is easiest to use and most efficient.

For instance, on the T6 when you want to change from alti or baro mode, it is like 3 or 4 button pushes. Simpler, quicker.

The Core however, has the same menu no matter where you are. Easy, intuitive (no surprises) but not as efficient.


----------



## paduncan

> It may take 8 button-presses to change the Profile, but if you know your CORE, with the clear text-based menu system that also only takes about 8 seconds or less to do! :-!


Vs. 1 second on the Vector going from alti to baro (sorry couldn't resist)

:-x;-)

Oh, and being able to always see the little baro trend graph on the Vector (only visible when you are in baro mode on Core).

:rodekaart


----------



## Jeff_C

The sky is blue....


----------



## scandium21

..but the Vector cant 'ask' me if I want more sleep or not!;-)

I really like the CORE.

I wonder how this thread would have read if it was up and running 'x'-number of years ago, in the first few months following the release of the very first Vector...


----------



## paduncan

Jeff_C said:


> The sky is blue....


Was that a feature I missed on the Core?

:-d


----------



## paduncan

scandium21 said:


> ..but the Vector cant 'ask' me if I want more sleep or not!;-)
> 
> I really like the CORE.
> 
> I wonder how this thread would have read if it was up and running 'x'-number of years ago, in the first few months following the release of the very first Vector...


Not sure the internet was around then...


----------



## paduncan

Jeff_C said:


> You are right...


As far as opinions go...

b-)


----------



## scandium21

Dunno about your watch, but my CORE also makes a most excellent 2 shot espresso for me in the morning as well...b-)

How to do this will be updated in the manual soon.


----------



## Jeff_C

Im just playing with you...

Wanted to see if you would say it was green...


----------



## Jeff_C

I tore my post out. It was argumentative and served no purpose.


----------



## Jeff_C

Oh yeah, mine even tells time. lol


----------



## paduncan

Jeff_C said:


> Oh yeah, mine even tells time. lol


YEAHHHH! :-!:-!:-!

Seriously, I like all of my Suunto watches. Having been a Vector owner for many years, I can see why Suunto went the direction they did. My "issues" probably won't matter to new users, and I am happy Suunto can expand their customer base with a watch that is more accessible.

I will be doing some hardcore (no pun intended) winter hiking in the Adirondacks in January so I will post up a report on how well the Core does then.

And Jeff, remember, it was all your fault I got the Core in the first place do I don't wanna hear it!! ;-);-);-)


----------



## paduncan

Jeff_C said:


> Im just playing with you...
> 
> Wanted to see if you would say it was green...


Only when I have had too much Long Trail Ale


----------



## MagnumIP

Long press the 'View' button when in Alti/Baro mode to acces the profile change shortcut.


----------



## MagnumIP

"Compass has to be "pushed" to calibrate"

Can someone please explain what the problem is with the Core compass calibration? 
1. enter compass mode
2. rotate your Core
3. DONE

Sorry, but I just don't see what the problem is.:-s


----------



## Jeff_C

Thats my thoughts... 

When in doubt.... Rotate...


----------



## paduncan

MagnumIP said:


> "Compass has to be "pushed" to calibrate"
> 
> Can someone please explain what the problem is with the Core compass calibration?
> 1. enter compass mode
> 2. rotate your Core
> 3. DONE
> 
> Sorry, but I just don't see what the problem is.:-s


How do you know when it is "done?"


----------



## paduncan

MagnumIP said:


> Long press the 'View' button when in Alti/Baro mode to acces the profile change shortcut.


AWESOME! THANKS!!! :-!:-!:-!

That just makes my opinion go up a notch. I need to revise my list above.


----------



## Rapt

Funny, I think a Depth meter is more useful than an altimeter... But since they both use pressure to determine the value I guess its easy to include both. 

I'm more likely to be snorkeling and wonder what depth I'm at than I am climbing a hill and wonder what elevation I'm at. 

Guess its largely individual what features are useful and what are gimmicks.


----------



## MagnumIP

paduncan said:


> How do you know when it is "done?"


The compass on the Core should not need more that 3 full rotations to be completely accurate.:-!

The exception to this is if your Core has come into contact with strong elecromagnetic fields and the compass is stuck in a certain range (eg. 100-170 degrees). In this case it may take more rotations to 'teach' the Core.

I know that the Vector/Observer have a calibration sub menu that says 'DONE' once performed but that is no guarantee that the compass is now accurate - in some cases it is neccessary to calibrate the Vector up to 5 or 6 times to ensure that the compass is accurate.


----------



## breijm

I know this is an old thread, but it's worth bringing up again. Here is my two cents. I have owned the Light Green Core, 2 Light Blacks and 2 Steel Cores (see below). I sold the Light Green on Ebay and had to replace both the Light Black and Steel Cores. Both of them had grayed out screens and would reset at the slightest static discharge IE: slipping your arm through a fleece sleeve. When I say reset, I mean it's like you just put a new battery in. I sent both the Steel and Light Black to Suunto who replaced them free. This was a good thing, however, 6 hours after wearing the Light Black, it had reset twice. No issues with the Steel Core (yet). 

This morning I contacted Suunto to have the Light Black replaced (again) and listed the Steel Core on Ebay. This afternoon, I bought a Vector. I had a Vector in Afghanistan for over a year. I never had the issues with the Vector that I had with the Core. I'm a service member. When I deploy I absolutely need to rely on the watch I take along. When I came to the conclusion that I would never take the Core into the field, I reverted back to the Vector. 

The functions of the Core were superior to the Vector, but that is no match for the reliability of the Vector.


----------



## jnewell

I have or have owned a Vector, a Core and an Observer. The Vector was a flakey POS. Honestly, if I had to pick one of the three, it would be the Core.


----------



## Geof3

First off, neither the Vector nor the Core (or pretty much any ABC watch) is really all that good for any real orienteering. Some basic map work, sure, but real life saving, lost in the wilderness stuff, not great. I ALWAYS carry a real compass if I am at all concerned. Period.

To that, the real benefit of either is the altimeter/barometer. The Core tends to be a tiny bit more accurate, but either one is only as good as how often it is set to reference altitudes. Especially if the weather is flaky.

The Vector is the standard by which all others are measured. It is an excellent overall piece. It is a monster though and can be impractical under tighter sleeves, gauntlet gloves etc. The Core has a bit better profile and is easier to learn. I personally have had no issues with either of my Cores but some of the posts here might give one pause. The challenge is to know the actual percentage of watches that actually have had issues, VS internet hype where most of what is read is doom and gloom.

I would take my Core (or Vector) to K2 any day. Having said that I would also have a backup of some sort. Electronics of any kind can be fickle at best in extreme conditions.

Having owned both, my overall preference is the Core, but that is really only due to the cosmetics and the height profile of he watch. I do many winter outdoor activities and the Vector proved to be in the pack more than on my wrist. The Core, I forget I have it on.

One other thing, the Core's logbook feature blows the Vector's away.


----------



## Jeff_C

Amen!


----------



## Deacon

I only have a Vector. And so far it has performed admirably.
I can understand how some would perceive it as less rugged due to it's lightness and plastic construction. 
But I've learned that it is plenty tough.

But for the sake of science I guess I will have to get a core so that I can perform a more diligent comparison....:-!


----------



## jnewell

I don't think you'll be disappointed.

One of the things that I didn't trust initially but has proven to be surprisingly accurate (and useful) is the "auto" alti/baro mode. It seems to work as well as my Observer when I switch the Observer back and forth between alti and baro mode. Better, in some ways, since I don't have to worry about forgetting to change modes when the Core is in auto mode.



Deacon said:


> I only have a Vector. And so far it has performed admirably.
> I can understand how some would perceive it as less rugged due to it's lightness and plastic construction.
> But I've learned that it is plenty tough.
> 
> But for the sake of science I guess I will have to get a core so that I can perform a more diligent comparison....:-!


----------



## NATHAN>

As I was traveling in my wife's car the other day I was playing wtih her GPS unit in the car. I found the alltitude setting that you can display on the front page of the unit. I had my Core in Auto mode and watched it and the GPS unit for about an hour long trip. The alltitude was never off between the two by for than 3ft.
It was a ton of fun watching the two. At least for me. The wife kept telling me to watch the road for some reason. Go figure.


----------



## Geof3

NATHAN> said:


> As I was traveling in my wife's car the other day I was playing wtih her GPS unit in the car. I found the alltitude setting that you can display on the front page of the unit. I had my Core in Auto mode and watched it and the GPS unit for about an hour long trip. The alltitude was never off between the two by for than 3ft.
> It was a ton of fun watching the two. At least for me. The wife kept telling me to watch the road for some reason. Go figure.


Nathan,

Actually (an FYI) GPS altitude is not all that accurate overall. Definitely not accurate enough to navigate by. The core otoh is. If there isn't significant change overall in altitude the gps will get it tight eventually, but the core is a far better altimeter. Cool they were so together...


----------



## NATHAN>

Geof, Thanks for the post. I have never known how Altitude was calculated in a Automobile GPS unit. I now have done some research (extensive) and found that you are right. The Core is most likely more acurate than my GPS unit. 
Did I mention that I love my Core.


----------

