# Why all the hate?



## kchustle (Sep 28, 2008)

I was floating through some of the other threads and saw something about the most over rated watches and Panerai showed up over and over. Wen googling for some information I came across some article where a guy was slamming Panerai for being a bad watch and said that any real watch connoisseur would go a bunch of different directions. I don't get it. Panerai has been around for forever, they seem to make a good watch with a very niche look, and I haven't seen many complaints about quality/time keeping. So, why do some people hate the brand so much? I used to have issues with Rolex and I am starting to come around (I still think that if a Rolex is your only watch that you are probably a schmuck but they have a place in a collection). Is it just people's bias or is there a real reason that they would consider Panerai to be so overrated?


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## chris slack (Sep 3, 2013)

Big,ugly and over priced ? but I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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## Mystro (Oct 26, 2008)

There isn't alot of hate. Some of the negative opinions are just internet fodder by some that think they are important.:roll: These same people tend to be those that that cry about any watch over the size of 40mm so Panerai becomes the target of the entire anti bigger watch movement. 
Panerai is also incredibly popular, especially with celebrities, famous politicians and sports stars. That drives the non Panerai lovers crazy so they talk smack.:-d

Funny observation with the general public's opinion about Panerai is that I get more unsolicited complements from men and women when I wear my Panerai, than all my other watches like Rolex, Omega, etc... combined and they are beautiful and much flashier watches that my Panerai. Panerai just has mass appeal to the average person that doesn't know much about watches. You get that "Cool watch" comment or "Beautiful watch, must be very expensive" generalized comment with out the baggage of some brands like Rolex stereo typing. Panerai flies under the radar just enough but has serious wrist presence so it must be that Italian style singing out. I dont care either way because I love the watch.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Secretly want and can't afford and so they whine. Many are just purist wannabes.


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

People whine because they cannot afford them,they think pam use ETA movt (because of their durability)

Personally I like the simplicity and boldness of Panerai,and the fact that they are not that popular also helps...

However they're getting too popular in my country,went to the mall for 2 hrs and I spot 5 pams...


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## Ames (Feb 2, 2008)

Most successful things end up with haters.


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## kchustle (Sep 28, 2008)

Fair enough. I just find it funny that the reviews are so split. People either love them or hate them. You don't find many people who are indifferent about them in the watch community.


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## Chris Nackers (Apr 3, 2013)

People love to voice their opinions 

I have a PAM 176 and it sees more wrist time than any of my other watches. It's also one of the most if not the most comfortable watch I own. 

I won't wear anything less than 40mm, even 40mm looks small on my wrist. I prefer 42mm or larger. My Panerai at 44m fits nicely on my wrist. I can't stand all the tiny dress watches or Rolex's that people love. But hey, everyone has their opinion and entitled to it.

I own a few watches with in-house movements, and I have quite a few with ETA based movements. They all tell the time the same


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## stilo (Aug 11, 2009)

First off, stop reading articles written by The Watch Snob. He tends to bash Panerai quite a bit and when he recommends a "real watch", it's usually an ALS or GO which are generally out of reach for most people. So a "real watch" ends up being a fantasy vs. reality. By the way, he doesn't own either an ALS or a GO so I guess he doesn't own a "real watch" either.

The thing with Panerai that most people don't understand is that they don't understand Panerai. Most people see the entry level, the 000, as a simple dial timepiece with a cool case that uses an off the shelf movement and costs $5000. I see it as the essence of the brand and a true classic in its own right. Needless to say, I can say the exact same thing about most Breitling, albeit the dial is usually a bit more detailed and flashy. Does that make the Breitling any better? Of course not!


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## Chris Nackers (Apr 3, 2013)

stilo said:


> First off, stop reading articles written by The Watch Snob. He tends to bash Panerai quite a bit and when he recommends a "real watch", it's usually an ALS or GO which are generally out of reach for most people. So a "real watch" ends up being a fantasy vs. reality. By the way, he doesn't own either an ALS or a GO so I guess he doesn't own a "real watch" either.
> 
> The thing with Panerai that most people don't understand is that they don't understand Panerai. Most people see the entry level, the 000, as a simple dial timepiece with a cool case that uses an off the shelf movement and costs $5000. I see it as the essence of the brand and a true classic in its own right. Needless to say, I can say the exact same thing about most Breitling, albeit the dial is usually a bit more detailed and flashy. Does that make the Breitling any better? Of course not!


That's what drew me to the 176, the shear simplicity of the dial, it's incredibly clean and well done. Can't think too many other watches that look that clean.

I dislike the watch snob articles as well.


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## kchustle (Sep 28, 2008)

stilo said:


> First off, stop reading articles written by The Watch Snob. He tends to bash Panerai quite a bit and when he recommends a "real watch", it's usually an ALS or GO which are generally out of reach for most people. So a "real watch" ends up being a fantasy vs. reality. By the way, he doesn't own either an ALS or a GO so I guess he doesn't own a "real watch" either.
> 
> The thing with Panerai that most people don't understand is that they don't understand Panerai. Most people see the entry level, the 000, as a simple dial timepiece with a cool case that uses an off the shelf movement and costs $5000. I see it as the essence of the brand and a true classic in its own right. Needless to say, I can say the exact same thing about most Breitling, albeit the dial is usually a bit more detailed and flashy. Does that make the Breitling any better? Of course not!


I actually think that it was the watch snob that wrote the article I referenced! That is funny. I don't know anything about his preferences. I just came across that single article because I was searching for something Panerai related. The people talking about Panerai being one of the most over rated watches was a thread on this forum. I guess everybody has a preference.


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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

I think it has something to do with some people thinkimg the price is high for what you get. The inhouse stuff is fairly new and for the msrp of some of its models puts it at a price point with traditional high end watch manufacturers..

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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

..opps


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

"The price is high for what you get" is the normal though around here and most everywhere else. It's very real 
when you go grocery shopping where the packaging has become far larger than the contents or a shrinkage in 
size like toilet paper.


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## 3Peat (Jan 26, 2014)

people see value in and appreciate different things. some people just don't get watches altogether. each to their own.


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

kchustle said:


> ... People either love them or hate them. You don't find many people who are indifferent about them in the watch community.


Not so sure that's a bad thing... indifference / lack of emotion towards something is the ultimate insult... ;-)


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## Donut (Aug 27, 2007)

I was never a Panerai fan until I placed one on my wrist...


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## srvwus (Aug 9, 2012)

The Watch Snob does have some valid points about Panerai, and later he did have some praise for their newer watches. But as a whole, many of their offerings are priced pretty high for what you get (many ETA movements), even in the watch world where everything is overpriced. And they haven't helped this perception with offerings like their Radiomir 1940 LE Chronographs that go from $54,000-80,000 with Minerva movements. Their Brooklyn Bridge watch was a PR nightmare. Their are numerous disaster stories about Panerai Service in Ft. Worth...

That being said, I own and enjoy my PAM 121. It is a smaller version, but there is something about that classic Panerai look that I think is just plain cool. The Paneristi are an active, educated, and fiercely loyal group. So my not so humble opinion is that if you like the watch and want to buy it, go for it!


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## ac_wong75 (Jul 26, 2013)

Everyone is entitile to their opinions.. But for the opinion to carry weight think it is always good that if they have experince it first before making comments or judgement.. that just my 2 cents worth. 

The question is if you have own a PAM and wearing like all folks here, you will know it has its great appeal... why worry about internet chatter, you have experince something, which I think debunks the myth so to speak....


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## powboyz (Nov 25, 2011)

*there are haters everywhere about every watch especially high end ones ......bet there is more hate for the Rolex DSSD than any Pam.........*


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

"Everything is overpriced'?


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

Sure, there are some blind haters out there. 

But more generally, I think there are probably two main camps of very rational criticism: 

1) Aesthetic - they are too big. (And perhaps, they all look very similar); 

2) Movement for price - overpriced ETA with huge premiums for basic functions like a seconds hand or seconds sub dial. In-house movements are extremely pricey without the history or technical excellence to support the asking price.

Those in camp #1 probably don't want a Panerai. Those in camp #2, might be willing to consider one, but they are not willing to do so because of being able to find better perceived value elsewhere.


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

i guess one of the main reason is Jealousy.
or could it be that some Fear the competition which may become a threat to Their iconic items ?.. who knows. 
but i know that it's A Human Nature, and it's an Ugly nature in my World.


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## TheMac (Mar 4, 2014)

Panerai's designs are great, they have this mass appeal that's minimalistic and feature bold elements. Unfortunately the brand attracts a lot of schmucks and douches' which gave the brand a bad name.

Among other concerns are their relatively simple designs that sell for so much more because of the brand and it's exclusivity. Take for example a contemporary Rolex has so much going for it, in terms of technological advancements and forward thinking designs. To name a few Rolex features, in house movements, 904L SS, in house forgery, in house gem/jeweller, parachrom hairspring, paraflex shock absorber. And for all that value a Rolex gives, the Panerai equivalent is a bare bones 316L case with an ETA movement.


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## dbostedo (Feb 26, 2014)

Not sure if this is the article you - the OP - read... but if not it contains a pretty full explanation for why the Watch Snob in particular dislikes Panerai. You may not agree, but it is a pretty well reasoned view at least...

http://uk.askmen.com/fashion/mens-watches/panerai-watch-challenge.html

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## Mystro (Oct 26, 2008)

This has been brought up many times on the forum. The "watch snob" *isn't a expert of anything* but likes to think he is in high demand or his opinions have weight.. This is the so called "expert" that likes to hear himself talk and does it with a arrogant tone while substituting facts with his personal opinions. :roll: Internet fodder for the non watch community to try to look sophisticated. I try to avoid his rantings but in this particular article he represents his ignorance in the first line. Anyone that starts a article with "Everyone is a snob about something" and then tries to justify this stament is a pure narcissistic ass.



dbostedo said:


> Not sure if this is the article you - the OP - read... but if not it contains a pretty full explanation for why the Watch Snob in particular dislikes Panerai. You may not agree, but it is a pretty well reasoned view at least...
> 
> The Watch Snob Rantings of ignorance: - Askmen
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## dbostedo (Feb 26, 2014)

Mystro said:


> This has been brought up many times on the forum. The "watch snob" *isn't a expert of anything* but likes to think he is in high demand or his opinions have weight.. This is the so called "expert" that likes to hear himself talk and does it with a arrogant tone while substituting facts with his personal opinions. :roll: Internet fodder for the non watch community to try to look sophisticated. I try to avoid his rantings but in this particular article he represents his ignorance in the first line. Anyone that starts a article with "Everyone is a snob about something" and then tries to justify this stament is a pure narcissistic ass.


Well you may not like the tone, and disagree with his take on things (assuming it's a person and not some AskMen writing panel), but the article on Panerai is pretty even handed and even has some useful information. I can see how the schtick would turn off some (most?) people, but I find it entertaining (which I think is the point). Even a narcissistic ass can provide some reasoned opinions.


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## Time Collector (Aug 14, 2012)

TheMac said:


> Take for example a contemporary Rolex has so much going for it, in terms of technological advancements and forward thinking designs. To name a few Rolex features, in house movements, 904L SS, in house forgery, in house gem/jeweller, parachrom hairspring, paraflex shock absorber. And for all that value a Rolex gives, *the Panerai equivalent is a bare bones 316L case with an ETA movement*.


Hello TheMac,
I would like to know which Panerai do you consider equivalent to the Rolex that you have described, I am guessing that you are comparing the SubC ?
I'm not asking to argue your opinion, I just want to know what you are comparing. 
Thanks in Advance.


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## gagnello (Nov 19, 2011)

mpalmer said:


> Sure, there are some blind haters out there.
> 
> But more generally, I think there are probably two main camps of very rational criticism:
> 
> ...


This in a nutshell.

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## Mystro (Oct 26, 2008)

I can't wade through all the poo to find a nugget of information from the "watch snob". 
This is like going to get a prostrate exam just so I can read the free magazines in the waiting room. 
There are better and more knowledgable sources to obtain direct information, especially for us WIS that have greater resources than "AskMen". IMO.

Remember, most that take pop shots at other brands, do so to validate their own watch purchases on the forums. This is very common when the brand pissing matches are brought up. Never so true when the Rolex vs Omega or Panerai vs Rolex pops up from the newbie. The true watch guy says Rolex AND Panerai AND Omega, AND PP, etc..... Own them all and appreciate them for their own distinctive personalities.



dbostedo said:


> Well you may not like the tone, and disagree with his take on things (assuming it's a person and not some AskMen writing panel), but the article on Panerai is pretty even handed and even has some useful information. I can see how the schtick would turn off some (most?) people, but I find it entertaining (which I think is the point). Even a narcissistic ass can provide some reasoned opinions.


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## Time Collector (Aug 14, 2012)

I feel that everyone has the right to hate on anything they want, what someone else likes or dislikes should have no bearings on anyone decision to purchase a particular watch.:roll: You can pick out any watch and I bet there will be a gang of heaters expressing why they don't like that watch,o|*( cost, size, movement and type of metal used )* . *The bottom line is to buy the watch you like and can afford that will make you happy.* :-!Always look for the facts in peoples opinion and never just accept what they say as law.:think:

:rodekaart*Haters are nothing but motivators !!!!!!! so let them hate on
*


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## TheMac (Mar 4, 2014)

Time Collector said:


> Hello TheMac,
> I would like to know which Panerai do you consider equivalent to the Rolex that you have described, I am guessing that you are comparing the SubC ?
> I'm not asking to argue your opinion, I just want to know what you are comparing.
> Thanks in Advance.


It could be the SubC or a Datejust fact is the in house forged 904L stainless steel case and components plus the parachrom hairspring plus the in house movement is worth the price of admission. I'm all about forward thinking and that's what watchmaking was all about making it more accurate, smaller, reliable while not forgetting history and heritage which a company like Rolex has tons of too.


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## Bree (Jun 2, 2007)

IMHO if one decides to have just one watch and it has to be a Rolex, one can never go wrong with a Submariner or GMT Master. That being said, I like Panerais enough... My only gripe is they all look the same(same case, similar faces). But then again, maybe that's part of the appeal? 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


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## Time Collector (Aug 14, 2012)

TheMac said:


> It could be the SubC or a Datejust fact is the in house forged 904L stainless steel case and components plus the parachrom hairspring plus the in house movement is worth the price of admission. I'm all about forward thinking and that's what watchmaking was all about making it more accurate, smaller, reliable while not forgetting history and heritage which a company like Rolex has tons of too.


Thanks for defining which watch, I liken the Submariner to the Porsche 911 , although both have kept their general shape over the years to keep in line with its heritage, they have also year after year made technological advances to keep up with the idea of forward thinking. I love both companies and I have both a Sub-c and Porsche 911 for that reason. I also have two Panerai watches that I brought because they had in-house movements and one for the heritage of the case and the other for the titanium case.


Bree said:


> IMHO if one decides to have just one watch and it has to be a Rolex, one can never go wrong with a Submariner or GMT Master. That being said, I like Panerais enough... My only gripe is they all look the same(same case, similar faces). But then again, maybe that's part of the appeal?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


For me I think you are 100% right that part of the appeal is the fact that they all look alike, the other part is the fact that while looking the same the different dials and bezels change them enough to make them different to those that get what Panerai is selling. The funny thing is that people say the same thing about my rolex watches and rolex in general. Some people say that, the Rolex sports models are all the same with the bezel and dials being the only thing that makes them different, sounds similar to Panerai, Humm 
I just think that its all in the eye of the beholder, not everything is going to appeal to everybody. The wonderful thing about this watch industry is the fact that there is always something for everybody from the Timex, G shock watches to the Rolex , AP, and Patek watches.

In the end, there should be no reasons for hating on any watch because all of them truly have a place and something to offer everyone. *The good thing about freedom of choice is the fact that if you truly don't like a watch brand, you can exercise your dislike for them by simply not buying them and that speaks louder and more volume than any opinion one can give.*


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## Chrlee3000 (Feb 27, 2012)

Mystro said:


> I can't wade through all the poo to find a nugget of information from the "watch snob".
> This is like going to get a prostrate exam just so I can read the free magazines in the waiting room.
> There are better and more knowledgable sources to obtain direct information, especially for us WIS that have greater resources than "AskMen". IMO.
> 
> ...


Well said Mystro!

As far as the Watch Snob is concerned I have pretty much always regarded the column as comedy. Although I do find that he/they do sometimes provide useful information. There are other more unbiased assessments provided on AskMen that are not done by the Watch Snob that are very well done IMHO.


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## ilitig8 (Oct 11, 2013)

To the OP, I would take issue with Panerai being around forever, they are quite young in the watch business (especially if you take out their "instrument" years). "Forever" means manufacturers like Vacheron, Breguet and Blancpain, you know, ones older than the United States.

The hate stems from:

1. Big
2. ETA
3. Celebrities
4. Value

1. Everyone seems to forget the 40mm watches but their 60mm novelties don't help and the fact that many of their interesting watches are 47mm (California dial Radiomirs and the Bronzo for example) though I understand the historic reasons
2. They have moved to a rather impressive line of in-house movements VERY quickly for a "fledgling" brand and have some great movements, that said I love my 8497 based watches since they are workhorses and I can get them serviced for a song locally
3. Not everyone loves Sly BUT he picked the watch instead of the other way around like most celeb watch wearers
4. particularly if you look at some of the novelties, value is not a Panerai string suit


In conclusion, the hate is mostly group-think. Despite not really aiming to I own more Panerais than any other brand (6). I guess I love them.


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## korneevy (May 17, 2012)

Hmmm. I have owned 6 Panerai watches over the past 5 years and I do understand why some people dont think that they are such a great thing. I also have had a ICW, a JLC, one VC and a number of other cheaper brands and I can say that in terms of the execution, Panerai is on par with IWC and a bit "below" JLC while VC is in a different league but then Panerai offerings are big, bold and not to everyone's taste as they dont necessary fit into a classic definition of premium Swiss watch...becoming somewhat of an Invicta for richer customer base, one may say. I am also of the opinion that Panerai has grown way too quickly and on the way, has gone a bit too far in terms of milking the max out of a fairly mundane "heritage", all way to manufacturing "history" as they go along. There are many other culprits out there who do exact same thing but Panerai has gotten into the spotlight because of their success and possibly, over-hyping by the Richmond marketing folks. In terms of value - my belief is that one can only realistically assess the value of an investment (be it a watch, a stock or house) when trying to sell it. All I can say that my VC or JLC, which retailed for about $12K, lost 50% of their value when I decided to sell them some 2-3 years after buying. Every Panerai I owned sold for about 20% less than I paid for them, so so from that point of view, even an "over-priced", 300$-a-pop Unitas-driven PAM is may be <<just may be>> presenting a better value than a fabulous VC with much better movement, immaculate case and a ton of real, not made-up-as-we-go-along history. Go figure! Having said that, I think the hype is coming to a close and what I see on the secondary Panerai market nowadays is that they lose their value pretty quickly and it takes longer to sell one, so this is a good reflection on where the brand is right now and probably a fair correction of its value.


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## David Woo (Feb 12, 2006)

Donut said:


>


nicely done


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## Time Collector (Aug 14, 2012)

korneevy said:


> Hmmm. I have owned 6 Panerai watches over the past 5 years and I do understand why some people dont think that they are such a great thing. I also have had a ICW, a JLC, one VC and a number of other cheaper brands and I can say that in terms of the execution, Panerai is on par with IWC and a bit "below" JLC while VC is in a different league but then Panerai offerings are big, bold and not to everyone's taste as they dont necessary fit into a classic definition of premium Swiss watch...becoming somewhat of an Invicta for richer customer base, one may say. I am also of the opinion that Panerai has grown way too quickly and on the way, has gone a bit too far in terms of milking the max out of a fairly mundane "heritage", all way to manufacturing "history" as they go along. There are many other culprits out there who do exact same thing but Panerai has gotten into the spotlight because of their success and possibly, over-hyping by the Richmond marketing folks. In terms of value - my belief is that one can only realistically assess the value of an investment (be it a watch, a stock or house) when trying to sell it. All I can say that my VC or JLC, which retailed for about $12K, lost 50% of their value when I decided to sell them some 2-3 years after buying. Every Panerai I owned sold for about 20% less than I paid for them, so so from that point of view, even an "over-priced", 300$-a-pop Unitas-driven PAM is may be <<just may be>> presenting a better value than a fabulous VC with much better movement, immaculate case and a ton of real, not made-up-as-we-go-along history. Go figure! Having said that, I think the hype is coming to a close and what I see on the secondary Panerai market nowadays is that they lose their value pretty quickly and it takes longer to sell one, so this is a good reflection on where the brand is right now and probably a fair correction of its value.


Well said, you have touched on some great points, this is even more of the reason why one should not view some brands as an investment and just get what they like. That way enjoyment of the watch is the main concern. If you are into flipping watches or keeping them for a short time, resale value should be at the top of your list. I feel that Hype , can cause any brand of watch (not just Panerai) to experience an increase in demand and then an increase in price. Like you said when the Hype settles down so will the price, *" The Market Always Correct It Self " * this is seen in housing prices, and stocks as well. 
Thanks, its always good to hear the views of others who have actually owned a Panerai and had time to really evaluate them.


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

chris slack said:


> Big,ugly and over priced ? but I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


Big, Ugly, and under priced! The Citizen Signature Grand Touring. 44mm case, 50mm including crown. hand assembled and polished case and movement. Hand assembled and polished bracelet with solid end links and screws instead of push pins, 200m WR double sided AR on domed sapphire crystal, sapphire crystal display case back. Decorated Miyota 9012 28,000 bph movement, mines has only gained two seconds in a week and a half. Costs well under $1K


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

[/QUOTE]

I love that photo!


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

TheMac said:


> Panerai's designs are great, they have this mass appeal that's minimalistic and feature bold elements. Unfortunately the brand attracts a lot of schmucks and douches' which gave the brand a bad name.
> 
> Among other concerns are their relatively simple designs that sell for so much more because of the brand and it's exclusivity. Take for example a contemporary Rolex has so much going for it, in terms of technological advancements and forward thinking designs. To name a few Rolex features, in house movements, 904L SS, in house forgery, in house gem/jeweller, parachrom hairspring, paraflex shock absorber. And for all that value a Rolex gives, the Panerai equivalent is a bare bones 316L case with an ETA movement.


The 904L ss is a marketing ploy, it is no better then 316L and in fact it is a softer metal then 316L. (Rockwell hardness rating of 70-90 for 904L 95 for 316L). parachrom hairspring and paraflex shock absorber are indeed some extras they threw on the 3135, but yet many watchmakers still say the ETA 2892-a2 is just as robust and accurate a movement. The movement in a Seiko 5 is in house also, and I don't see it being anointed like Swiss in house are.

Rolex has hardly been keeping up with the Jones technologically speaking, Omega with their 2500 and 8500 movements Seiko Spring Drives etc., Sinn with it's anti-humidity technology (copper sulfate capsule, and argon gas filled case) Tegimented steel, 6 times stronger then 904L (904L is 240 on the Vickers scale, while tegimented Sinn steel is 1200), their Diapal watches with escapements that never need lubricants.

At least the Panerai is refreshing looking compared to the over copied, cloned and homaged Subs.

This is why my Submariner 16610 is in a safety deposit box and never worn, too many clones, copies and homages, got tired of people asking me if it was real or not. The final insult came when some clown asked me where I bought that Invicta?


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## TheMac (Mar 4, 2014)

CombatMarine said:


> The 904L ss is a marketing ploy, it is no better then 316L and in fact it is a softer metal then 316L. (Rockwell hardness rating of 70-90 for 904L 95 for 316L). parachrom hairspring and paraflex shock absorber are indeed some extras they threw on the 3135, but yet many watchmakers still say the ETA 2892-a2 is just as robust and accurate a movement. The movement in a Seiko 5 is in house also, and I don't see it being anointed like Swiss in house are.
> 
> Rolex has hardly been keeping up with the Jones technologically speaking, Omega with their 2500 and 8500 movements Seiko Spring Drives etc., Sinn with it's anti-humidity technology (copper sulfate capsule, and argon gas filled case) Tegimented steel, 6 times stronger then 904L (904L is 240 on the Vickers scale, while tegimented Sinn steel is 1200), their Diapal watches with escapements that never need lubricants.
> 
> ...


Hi there maybe you should do a little light reading about Rolex 10 Things To Know About How Rolex Makes Watches | aBlogtoWatch you'll find out not everyone of it's technological marvels are blatantly obvious to the end user but that doesn't mean it's any less important and since when did hardness become the end all be all trait that SS is judged by, what about looks and corrosive resistance among other things? I love what Sinn, Omega and Seiko are doing just don't think it means Rolex is doing any less.

I can't believe you think Panerai is not over copied, cloned and homaged, perhaps not to the extent that subs are but that's just down to the fact that the Sub has been around in our minds longer than the PAMs have. I mean look at Parnis and a dozen other PAM homage makers from China. I share the same sentiments with Ben Clymer of Hodinkee, the Sub is the blue blazer of the watch world, a timeless design and look that works in a almost every occasion.

I'm no Rolex fanboy or Panerai hater, I own/owned watches from both companies. To me Panerai has a legacy/history that contradicts what it's trying to be now I mean this diving instrument maker's 'first' watches were made by Rolex then consequently Angelus which is something you'll never hear any of their representatives speak of, now they place themselves as an haute horlogerie maker ever since Richemont took over. Rolex never contradicted, they were a watch maker from the start with values that have held till now and it shows. I still love the look of the PAMs but I'd just rather not wear them because of what I know, if those things don't bother you then enjoy it but to me it does.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

There're not homage makers, there're shanzhai, knockoff artist.


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## TheMac (Mar 4, 2014)

Watchbreath said:


> There're not homage makers, there're shanzhai, knockoff artist.


The same can be said of Invicta and Steinhart then. Them being western companies or Swiss made doesn't give them a free pass to make submariner clones.

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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

TheMac said:


> The same can be said of Invicta and Steinhart then. Them being western companies or Swiss made doesn't give them a free pass to make submariner clones.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its when I saw about 7 of these clunkers in one week and some goofball, after noticing my Sub, asked me where I got my Invicta and how much it cost. I knew it was time to hang up my Submariner spurs, the watch became passe and it no longer held that tug on my heart strings.

Too many of these clunkers floating around to wear a Sub anymore, same thing with the two tone Datejusts, you see almost every geezer out here Arizona wearing a Seiko, or some other Japanese brand quartz homage of the Datejust.

Now the Explorers, that's a different story, and if I feel like going insane again, I will drop the big coin for one of them, probably the white face one.

Here's the clunker that did it!









Now this is a bullet proof tool watch!


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## vladinecko (Aug 7, 2013)

the so called "watch snob" is first and foremost an entertainer. their site is drowning in advertisements and they use every web trick known to man to produce as many ad impressions as humanly possible. 

in other words, he/she is being controversial intentionally to generate as many clicks as they can. they're most likely working on a $30-$40/hour salary, which means they probably wear a nice Seiko/Citizen or nothing at all. if they could afford a $100,000 Patek, they wouldn't be writing naively scathing blog posts on a tertiary website. 

when you read a few of their posts, you'll start noticing a very simple pattern in their determinations; 1) if it's cheap (under $20,000), it's crap and 2) if it's more than mildly popular, it's crap. most Panerai models cost under $20k and are wildly popular, check and check. 

they rarely mention brands other than Patek Philippe or its german adversary, A. Lange & Sohne. even those brands are almost never discussed in any kind of detail while words like "pedigree" or "history" are greatly overused and abused. also, their eloquence seems to reach the ceiling with such descriptive words as "good" or "bad." 

in any case, i concur that this animosity toward one brand or another is silly. there are many watch categories and thus it's invalid to judge a watch based on criteria that don't really apply to it. with Panerai, it's almost in a class of its own since it could easily pass for a fashion watch but their in-house movements definitely earn them a place in haute horology.


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## Trailboss (Apr 17, 2014)

On the internet, anybody can be a bully. It's very easy to trash talk people and hide behind your PC.
I'm confident that if you actually meet someone like that face to face over a beer, you'd probably get along with them pretty well. 
People love running their mouth on the internet, and if they do...let them. 

Be the better person.


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## TISSOT PRX (Aug 5, 2011)

If you think Panerai is getting the hate, you should see what TagHeuer fanboys are coping with their re-worked Seiko movement.


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## busmatt (Aug 5, 2012)

Time Collector said:


> I feel that everyone has the right to hate on anything they want, what someone else likes or dislikes should have no bearings on anyone decision to purchase a particular watch.:roll: You can pick out any watch and I bet there will be a gang of heaters expressing why they don't like that watch,o|*( cost, size, movement and type of metal used )* . *The bottom line is to buy the watch you like and can afford that will make you happy.* :-!Always look for the facts in peoples opinion and never just accept what they say as law.:think:
> 
> :rodekaart*Haters are nothing but motivators !!!!!!! so let them hate on
> *


I couldn't agree more T,C, I wanted a watch for my 40th and wanted something different but something well made and wearable, I looked at a lot of watches and eventually settled on the Meridian MP08







OK I know it's not a PAM but it shares a lot of traits, Size, Unitas movement, dual layer dial and most of all it gets a good slating from people who have nothing better to do and have probably never been within 50 feet of one, I was in the Omega boutique the other day and when I took of my Meridian to try on a few watches the sales guy picked it up and said " I never expected to see one of these in here, I have liked this watch from the first time I saw it at salon QP ", he then gave it a quick clean and polish for me and went to show his colleague who said " oh is this the watch you showed me on the web, it's great in person, isn't it ", I feel that is the problem with watches like PAM and Meridian if only people could see them in person they would fall in love and if they still don't like them then that's ok with me, there are a lot of watches I don't like(rolex for example, I don't know why, I just don't get them) but I don't slate anyones choice of wrist attire on the web.

Matt


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## Time Collector (Aug 14, 2012)

busmatt said:


> I couldn't agree more T,C, I wanted a watch for my 40th and wanted something different but something well made and wearable, I looked at a lot of watches and eventually settled on the Meridian MP08
> View attachment 1462647
> 
> OK I know it's not a PAM but it shares a lot of traits, Size, Unitas movement, dual layer dial and most of all it gets a good slating from people who have nothing better to do and have probably never been within 50 feet of one, I was in the Omega boutique the other day and when I took of my Meridian to try on a few watches the sales guy picked it up and said " I never expected to see one of these in here, I have liked this watch from the first time I saw it at salon QP ", he then gave it a quick clean and polish for me and went to show his colleague who said " oh is this the watch you showed me on the web, it's great in person, isn't it ", I feel that is the problem with watches like PAM and Meridian if only people could see them in person they would fall in love and if they still don't like them then that's ok with me, there are a lot of watches I don't like(rolex for example, I don't know why, I just don't get them) but I don't slate anyones choice of wrist attire on the web.
> ...


Hey Matt,
That is actually a very nice and legible watch. It is definitely a well made British watch with a work horse of an engine that is swiss made and it is designed to withstand the elements better than watches costing 5-10 times more. 
On a side note , when I wrote my post , I was just concerned that some members didn't realize that although they are expressing their opinion about a dislike for certain watches, they don't have to do it in a way that bashes or fall short of making people feel stupid for their watch choices with comments like : " That watch is Garbage, Whoever buys that type of watch must not know about watches or they must be a rapper type." This forum is for sharing the love of watches with fellow members and I feel we should welcome all types of watches other than ( knock offs ). I personally don't wish to purchase or like the design of every brand, but I would never put down anyone else for their love of the same watch because there is still something valuable in every brand.


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## xekret (Oct 3, 2011)

People like to hate because then can't or won't afford one. I am sure they are wearing a Panerai replica on their wrist while they wrote that haha! IMO Rolex is overrated, but they sell. I guess it gives the buyer that sense that they made it in the world when they buy a Submariner. There are thousands of them out there. To me Panerai has a sense of individuality. I can change my strap if I so desire and wear it differently. I guess it depends on the person really.


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## gagnello (Nov 19, 2011)

xekret said:


> People like to hate because then can't or won't afford one. I am sure they are wearing a Panerai replica on their wrist while they wrote that haha! IMO Rolex is overrated, but they sell. I guess it gives the buyer that sense that they made it in the world when they buy a Submariner. There are thousands of them out there. To me Panerai has a sense of individuality. I can change my strap if I so desire and wear it differently. I guess it depends on the person really.


I'm sure your sweeping generalizations are totally accurate.

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## ed21x (Feb 11, 2011)

Let's not make us paneristis look bad 



xekret said:


> People like to hate because then can't or won't afford one. I am sure they are wearing a Panerai replica on their wrist while they wrote that haha! IMO Rolex is overrated, but they sell. I guess it gives the buyer that sense that they made it in the world when they buy a Submariner. There are thousands of them out there. To me Panerai has a sense of individuality. I can change my strap if I so desire and wear it differently. I guess it depends on the person really.


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## GinGinD (Feb 29, 2008)

xekret said:


> People like to hate because then can't or won't afford one. I am sure they are wearing a Panerai replica on their wrist while they wrote that haha! IMO Rolex is overrated, but they sell. I guess it gives the buyer that sense that they made it in the world when they buy a Submariner. There are thousands of them out there. To me Panerai has a sense of individuality. I can change my strap if I so desire and wear it differently. I guess it depends on the person really.


Shockingly enough you can change straps on Rolexes too. ;-)

Jeannie


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## xekret (Oct 3, 2011)

GinGinD said:


> Shockingly enough you can change straps on Rolexes too. ;-)
> 
> Jeannie


You sure can but a Rolex will never look as good as a Panerai with a strap.

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## hchj (Jul 9, 2011)

When I saw the title I thought it was referring to Tag... I'm not a Panerai fan but I don't hate them.


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## ilitig8 (Oct 11, 2013)

xekret said:


> You sure can but a Rolex will never look as good as a Panerai with a strap.


First, I have already professed my love for Panerai in this thread and at the AD to the tune of 6 of them, just for context...

I don't know about that statement as a whole. Sure there are some Rolexes that look out of place on a strap, IMO, but a vintage Daytona looks immaculate on a strap just as an example. The Paneristi has a strong strap culture and they let their imagination run wild often to great results. Many see/feel that Panerais gain their identity from their owner. Practically every Panerai looks good on everything from glossy croc to heavily distressed bomber, not many watches can say that. In my opinion there are more versatile watches in that regard though. Take a Sub for instance, it looks right on a NATO, bracelet, band and even rubber something I don't think carries to most PAMs.


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## xekret (Oct 3, 2011)

ilitig8 said:


> First, I have already professed my love for Panerai in this thread and at the AD to the tune of 6 of them, just for context...
> 
> I don't know about that statement as a whole. Sure there are some Rolexes that look out of place on a strap, IMO, but a vintage Daytona looks immaculate on a strap just as an example. The Paneristi has a strong strap culture and they let their imagination run wild often to great results. Many see/feel that Panerais gain their identity from their owner. Practically every Panerai looks good on everything from glossy croc to heavily distressed bomber, not many watches can say that. In my opinion there are more versatile watches in that regard though. Take a Sub for instance, it looks right on a NATO, bracelet, band and even rubber something I don't think carries to most PAMs.


I don't hate Rolex, because there is one particular model that I would own. It is the stigma that the brand carries. Most people think that having a Rolex is the greatest thing in the world, and thats great. A PAM is not versatile, its big, bulky, and you probably couldn't wear one with a suit. I don't care for any of that. For the money I paid for my 351 I could have bought a Sub-C or Sea Dweller but I see them every single day.

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## Toothbras (Apr 19, 2010)

xekret said:


> I don't hate Rolex, because there is one particular model that I would own. It is the stigma that the brand carries. Most people think that having a Rolex is the greatest thing in the world, and thats great. A PAM is not versatile, its big, bulky, and you probably couldn't wear one with a suit. I don't care for any of that. For the money I paid for my 351 I could have bought a Sub-C or Sea Dweller but I see them every single day.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not buying something because you think it carries a supposed negative stigma is just as bad as buying different product for the same reason. You are selling yourself short if you won't consider wearing a Sub just because a lot of other people have them. Shouldn't that tell you it's a good product if it sells that well? If you personally prefer the PAM that's one thing, but don't wear it just because you think it makes a statement about you, "I am too cool to own a Sub like all you sheep." FYI, no one notices your watch anyway so you might as well wear what you like.....


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## xekret (Oct 3, 2011)

Toothbras said:


> Not buying something because you think it carries a supposed negative stigma is just as bad as buying different product for the same reason. You are selling yourself short if you won't consider wearing a Sub just because a lot of other people have them. Shouldn't that tell you it's a good product if it sells that well? If you personally prefer the PAM that's one thing, but don't wear it just because you think it makes a statement about you, "I am too cool to own a Sub like all you sheep." FYI, no one notices your watch anyway so you might as well wear what you like.....


Last time I checked, it was my opinion right? As far as people noticing my watches, you are so wrong! Thats what I like, my PAM and Monaco. I can careless what people think as long as I look at my wrist and realize I made the right choice. I appreciate your comment though.

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## Toothbras (Apr 19, 2010)

xekret said:


> Last time I checked, it was my opinion right? As far as people noticing my watches, you are so wrong! Thats what I like, my PAM and Monaco. I can careless what people think as long as I look at my wrist and realize I made the right choice. I appreciate your comment though.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No problem, I'm glad I'm appreciated around here


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## xekret (Oct 3, 2011)

Toothbras said:


> No problem, I'm glad I'm appreciated around here




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