# Other brands that have similar bang for the buck as Ball



## John Nelson (Feb 1, 2014)

Title says it all. I was admiring my Ball Aviator III but debating of letting it go since I already have a Ball and tend to only keep one watch of each brand. So I was then thinking what would I use to replace it with. Big fan of "american" watches but also good bank for the buck watches. Hamilton and Longines are similar bang for the buck "American" watches but not in the same price range and company as Ball. I do really feel Seiko can offer some great watches at good prices but thought I would see what you guys think. Thanks in advance.


----------



## doggbiter (Oct 31, 2010)

Oris.


----------



## MrDanno (Dec 22, 2016)

Nomos. Arguably better value since they have in house movements. Sinn too--good finishing, good tech, Swiss movements. 

If you look to some of Ball's more expensive offerings, Tudor as well.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk


----------



## John Nelson (Feb 1, 2014)

Wow, I forgot about Oris, how did that happen.


----------



## John Nelson (Feb 1, 2014)

I have kept my eye on a few Tudors but just haven't pulled the trigger. Might be time to pick up a Tudor Ranger to keep with the military theme should the Aviator go away. I need to spend more time looking at Nomos. I didn't realize they had inhouse movements.


----------



## bracky72 (Jun 30, 2013)

It's hard to beat Deep Blue when it comes to bang for the buck. Especially with one of their frequent 40% off codes.


----------



## John Nelson (Feb 1, 2014)

And DB is doing a fathers day sale...


----------



## IAmScott (May 12, 2011)

John Nelson said:


> Wow, I forgot about Oris, how did that happen.


Forgive the lighting..
Get one of these:









Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## IAmScott (May 12, 2011)

I have a bunch of deep blue pieces, highly recommend! !

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

Damasko should be appealing to many Ball owners.


----------



## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

Oris is one of the best "bangs for the buck" in the industry, if not the best--Damasko, too, is good value for the money (both, I think, better "bangs for the buck" than Ball has become, recently). Can't go wrong with most Seiko, Casio and Citizen in the lower price categories.


----------



## John Nelson (Feb 1, 2014)

great ideas guys. Even though I have only been collecting for a few years it gets really easy to have tunnel vision when looking at brands.


----------



## umarrajs (Oct 18, 2012)

Sinn and Damasko.
Used Omega..............


----------



## dcbill (May 11, 2011)

I will also say "Oris"... independent and not spending a millions on advertising and sponsorships.


----------



## dcbill (May 11, 2011)

Maddening that I cannot figure out how to edit my last post... simply to say "independent and NOT spending millions...." Figured it out...


----------



## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

I would say Rolex.


----------



## handsoverfist (Feb 9, 2017)

Damasko if Ball's tech is what impresses you

Oris if Ball's bang for buck and style impresses you


----------



## BostonWatcher (Jun 28, 2012)

Limes, Archimede, Damasko and Muhle Glashutte do it for me.


----------



## morrison2951 (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm also a Hamilton fan on this board. 

I've got a manual wind Masterpiece from the 1980's and I'm a big fan of the Ventura chrono- very cool and definitely bang for the buck for as much as it gets noticed.


----------



## John Nelson (Feb 1, 2014)

I am really impressed with the tech of Ball. I tend to buy watches that have something more than a standard swiss movement. I like the Ball's for their shock and anti-mag work, I have a Breitling B01 for the first "in-house" movement of theirs, I even have a Seiko Orange monster just because of its movement and history.


----------



## drummer13 (Jan 3, 2010)

Definitely Oris.


----------



## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

The ideal tool watch would combine features of both Damasko and Ball.


----------



## rreimer91 (Apr 18, 2017)

MrDagon007 said:


> The ideal tool watch would combine features of both Damasko and Ball.


I'm not that familiar with Ball. What tech does it have that Damasko does not?


----------



## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

rreimer91 said:


> I'm not that familiar with Ball. What tech does it have that Damasko does not?


To start with the obvious, plenty of tritium lume.
In addition many Balls offer improved antishock protection over standard eta movements, around the balance wheel and around the whole movement.


----------



## rreimer91 (Apr 18, 2017)

MrDagon007 said:


> To start with the obvious, plenty of tritium lume.
> In addition many Balls offer improved antishock protection over standard eta movements, around the balance wheel and around the whole movement.


Good point on tritium (which I think last only about 15 years). As I understand, Damasko has good anti shock too.


----------



## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

rreimer91 said:


> I'm not that familiar with Ball. What tech does it have that Damasko does not?


There really is very little common ground between the two brands (and I own them both).

The Damasko case is rather blocky, made of ice-hardened steel, with a gray unpolished surface, with rather unimaginative though highly legible dials, thought relatively weak lume (even for standard lume watches) with a one-choice only over-engineered (expensive, relative to the rest of the watch) bracelet--a good low to mid range tool watch.

Ball, on the other hand offers, besides the tritium tube lume, diversity (maybe too much so), with manuals and autos, men's and women's, polished dress watches to hard cased deep divers and rugged all weather sports watches, from low, to mid, and beyond. The only thing both Damasko and Ball share in common is that many of the movements are based on ETA movements. I personally like the lower end range of both brands, as shown in my signature.

And no, tritium doesn't last only 15 years--absurd! You can get the real facts on the "half life" of tritium tubes and what this means over the course of time elsewhere on this forum, but just for anecdotal evidence, I have two older Ball watches, a Fireman from 2005 and a Moonglow from 2006--both seem about as bright today as they were when they first came on the market--when I go to the movies, I take one of these two watches, as nothing of ANY kind of Superluminova comes even close to beating them in the dark, especially over a prolonged period of time.


----------



## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

rreimer91 said:


> Good point on tritium (which I think last only about 15 years). As I understand, Damasko has good anti shock too.


As mentioned already the joy of tritium will last longer than 15 years and in any case Ball offers reasonably priced tritium tube replacement service for older watches.
Regarding antishock, not sure about the luxury inhouse Damaskos, but the standard range offers the standard antishock system in the ETA movement which may be incabloc or another one whose name I forget.
Now in addition to this some Balls offer a shock absorbing ring around the movement and/or some kind of ring around the balance wheel to further improve shock resistance.
This is why I wrote that an ideal tool watch would blend the technical features of both!


----------



## ac7ss (Apr 24, 2017)

Tritium has a half life of 12.5 years, Which means that in 12.5 years it will be half as bright as it is now. In the nuke field, we call it decayed after 5 half lives, so 62 years it would be considered dead (3% of start value). The basic saying for Tritium watches is 4 half lives or 50 years. At that point it will be at 6% of it's starting value.


----------



## beyondhonesty (Jun 26, 2015)

Oris, great value.


----------



## stone1 (Aug 4, 2016)

MrDagon007 said:


> To start with the obvious, plenty of tritium lume.
> In addition many Balls offer improved antishock protection over standard eta movements, around the balance wheel and around the whole movement.


That explains alot...thanks for adding to my knowledge.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## john.6 (May 28, 2014)

Sorry, I have purchased 5 ball watches and the only way you get bang for your buck is if you buy used, it is easy to find virtually any of the range in mint or even unused condition for a 1/3rd of (not off ) the original list price or even less.


----------



## bcnwatch (Jun 24, 2008)

Fortis, Hamilton, Seiko.



John Nelson said:


> Title says it all. I was admiring my Ball Aviator III but debating of letting it go since I already have a Ball and tend to only keep one watch of each brand. So I was then thinking what would I use to replace it with. Big fan of "american" watches but also good bank for the buck watches. Hamilton and Longines are similar bang for the buck "American" watches but not in the same price range and company as Ball. I do really feel Seiko can offer some great watches at good prices but thought I would see what you guys think. Thanks in advance.


----------



## cuevobat (Jun 29, 2010)

If you want tritium, Ball and Marathon are pretty much the big kids on the block.
Ball is also a USA/Swiss company, which is HQ in USA but has a Swiss side that does all of the build obviously

If you don't want tritium, and you don't need the shock resistance, the anti-magnetic, and the tenuous USA connection then the suggestions in this thread.

I would add that many of the Teutonic suggestions in this thread are overly large, heavy and blocky, whereas Ball is for the most part a bit smaller and more diverse.


----------



## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

Just to add that Ball is in a class of one if you look at it for watch types across the range with GTLS lume. No one has even remotely comprehensive from dress to Uber divers with this lume. If you look at it horology wise Fortis, and Oris would be the only companies that make modifications, and additions to their movements like Ball, but they only have one or two where Ball has a few dozen (and more if you count some discontinued models).


----------



## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

cuevobat said:


> Ball is also a USA/Swiss company, which is HQ in USA but has a Swiss side that does all of the build obviously.


I thought that Ball was a Hong Kong company nowadays, yet Swiss made. Happy to be proven wrong if I am mistaken.


----------



## cuevobat (Jun 29, 2010)

MrDagon007 said:


> I thought that Ball was a Hong Kong company nowadays, yet Swiss made. Happy to be proven wrong if I am mistaken.


See this post: Who owns Ball watch Co.?

Here is a summary:

Answers from Jeff Hess, President of Ball Watch USA:

"We are incorpated under the laws of New York and our major investor is an American citizen" 

He also wrote:

"Owners are an investment group. CEO is Frajncisco Harreraa formerly of Citibank. Two of the main investors are a Swiss guy and an American citizen. VP's are a guy from Kansas City and a guy from Canada."

But ... in comes all of the HK investors, then ...

I think the info in my prior post indicates that Ball, like most robust international companies, is "all of the above." The investors appear to be Hong Kong based, but the various Ball companies are Swiss, US, and HK. 

From other members' prior posts over the past two years on this forum and TZ, I have learned that all Ball watches are designed and constructed entirely in Switzerland. I've never questioned Ball's provenance or quality based on the company's investors and never considered it anything other than a high quality Swiss watch company with an American heritage and which is underwritten largely by Asia-based financiers. From what Jeff has told Marc, there's an American among the primary investors (I presume of Ball Watch Company, Inc. a/k/a Ball Watch USA, if not Ball Watch (USA) Ltd).
​
So what does that mean? I was referring to Jeff Hess and the NY address when I said American. When I referred to the tenuous US connection I was implying that most of the operations are in Switzerland. But I was unknowingly more than a little correct while the HQ is in NY, all of the operations are Switzerland and all of the owners are Hong Kong.

Make of that what you will.


----------



## john.6 (May 28, 2014)

cuevobat said:


> See this post: Who owns Ball watch Co.?
> 
> Here is a summary:
> 
> ...


 Taken from a 2016 post on another site:

I rather like the simple Ball watch I have - a Fireman, and I like Ball Watches in general. I find them to be very well made with a good level of finish, in fact quite exceptional.

So I set out to find a little bit more about the brand.

"Ball, Accord Watch, Juvenia and Wakmann all have the same President in Switzerland.

They all have the same address in Switzerland.

They also have the same address in Hong Kong - 9 Des Voeux Rd W, Sheung Wan, Hong Kong.

Juvenia is a listed subsidiary of Asia Commercial Holdings Ltd in Hong Kong. .Juvenia has Swiss made on their dial.

Accord Watch is a manufacturer of watches "and a reliable HK Watch With Silver Case Exporter"

Wakmann at the same address also has Swiss made on their dial. ALL their watches have micro gas lights on their dials and hands. The sword hands on some of the models are identical to my Ball watch hands. Even the tubes are set in the same way. "

"When I used Google Street View to look at their building, I found a pic of a small building that is way too small to ever be a watch factory of a global brand - but it is definitely the Headquarters of Ball Watch. I have attached the image. See - a real watch company needs a foundry and machines to make cases and bracelets and the like. In this "factory" there would barely be enough space to house the admin staff and a few watch repairers (as it's also their Swiss service address) let alone enough people to put together the global output of many different models in the collection.

If their watches are in fact swiss made, I suspect they are all outsourced to someone else. I don't think Ball itself makes a single watch. I'd love to uncover the real truth about the Ball Watch company"

June 4th 2016, 12:47pm


----------



## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

cuevobat said:


> Make of that what you will.


A perfect example of successful globalisation!


----------



## cuevobat (Jun 29, 2010)

john.6 said:


> Taken from a 2016 post on another site:
> 
> I rather like the simple Ball watch I have - a Fireman, and I like Ball Watches in general. I find them to be very well made with a good level of finish, in fact quite exceptional.
> 
> ...


The story is getting more and more interesting.

The poster on the other site is right. These are not at all the buildings to manufacture watches at:

Florida HQ:







1131 4th St N, St. Petersburg, FL 33701

Florida Service Center







1920 Dr. MLK St North 
Suite D 
St Petersburg, FL 33704 
USA

Switzerland:







Ball Watch Ball Watch Company S.A. Rue du Châtelot 21 2300 La Chaux-de-Fonds Switzerland

Hong Kong:







9 Des Voeux Rd W, Sheung Wan, Hong Kong

I will hasten to add that they give great service and they are very prompt at the Florida Service Center address. So it may not look like much, but they do a great job. They fixed my 7750 when I stupidly changed the date near midnight for free and had it back to me quickly.

But I think the poster is right, the watches are contracted through another manufacture. That isn't bad, many brands do that and they make nice watches. They don't have to pay for that fancy head quarters and you get a good watch at a good price with good service.


----------



## cuevobat (Jun 29, 2010)

I have to admit Juvenia is almost completely off my radar. I know that its Johnny Depp's favorite watch, the Sextant.

But here they are with the same address as Ball:

communication_world_time

and if Juvenia was almost off my radar wakmann was a location distant in time and space, like Tudor England or Renaissance Italy or specifically the 1970's.

Wakmann Watches - Official Online Store Collection

But here they are. I was able to identify Wakmann Watch (International) Company Limited
19 Floor, 9 Des Voeux Road West, HONG KONG

Wakmann


----------



## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

Those current Wakmanns sure are generic and boring! Where is that lovely vintage triple day chrono?

I actually live in HK these days. You can find Ball here and there. I picked up my voyager at an AD to get it sized immediately.


----------



## Karkarov (Feb 22, 2016)

Hmm all interesting stuff, however the "major investor" in the US could theoretically own half the company. Which means you could have a line of HK investors going down the street, but they amount to little actual company control. Without knowing the real amount of ownership a given investor has, it is impossible to tell who really runs the company, or has the most say. 

That said, how big do you guys think these watch manufacturing machines really are? Kobolds watch headquarters is a barn.... yes a barn. While I am sure they manufacture far fewer watches than Ball, they certainly fit the required people, and machines, to make a watch in a building that is smaller than that 4 story Swiss one, much less the one in Hong Kong.

Funny story though, I do live in the States, yet much like Dagon my first Ball purchase was from a dealer in HK who was doing an online sale of old stock.


----------



## john.6 (May 28, 2014)

Asia is by far their biggest market


----------



## cuevobat (Jun 29, 2010)

Karkarov said:


> That said, how big do you guys think these watch manufacturing machines really are? Kobolds watch headquarters is a barn.... yes a barn. While I am sure they manufacture far fewer watches than Ball, they certainly fit the required people, and machines, to make a watch in a building that is smaller than that 4 story Swiss one, much less the one in Hong Kong.


I think it really depends on if they make their own cases, which I am beginning to doubt. Here is the Ickler building:









I am assuming they have much less volume then Ball, (maybe somebody has the stats on this), this seems an adequate amount of space to hold the large raw stock they need to use to make the cases and the 5-axis machines, plus milling machines etc. Add to that the fact that you have to keep your inventory somewhere and you end up with a minimum of say maybe 10,000 sq ft about 1000 sq meters?

Here are some other watch companies for comparison:









































However, if you contract with Ickler to make your cases, then you can get it down to less than 500 meters with offices and inventory. Finally if you don't hold inventory but have it drop shipped you can work out of the back of an Antique building on a strip mall. I find this rather appealing; but, I grew up with a similar situation. My Grandfather ran a million dollar real estate development company out of a spare bedroom in his hill top three bedroom house. Sometimes you need the organizational skills, not the machine skills.


----------



## GreatLakesWatch (Aug 12, 2016)

C. Ward
Steinhart
Seiko
Hamilton


----------



## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

To _MrDagon07_, _cuervobat_, and _john.6_, how about starting another thread if your interested in pursuing the ownership, and manufacturing location(s) of Ball watches, rather than hijacking a rather harmless thread on other companies that produce similarly good valued watches for the money spent?

To that end, as I noted earlier, Oris to me stands out above the rest, in terms of breadth and depth of their offerings, but without the tritium, still comes up a bit short.


----------



## rickdawg (May 20, 2014)

Oris. Dievas. Heroic 18. Sinn.


----------



## wwiibuff (Aug 19, 2010)

JLC putting out some of the best watches in the world for about half the price of a Patek


----------



## lovedeep (Jul 24, 2017)

Oris or Sinn


----------



## John Nelson (Feb 1, 2014)

Back on track might need to pick up an Oris. Not sure though where one would fit into my rotation but I am sure I can make it work.


----------



## clarken (Nov 30, 2013)

My watch collection is becoming a pitching staff. I have 5 starters now I need a good bullpen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gossler (Mar 19, 2009)

With the current pre orders and Ball My Offer outlet, Ball is the best bang for buck! You can get a very well made chronometer with tritium, for about the same price of a Steinhart. And with manufacturers warranty


----------

