# Decoding the mordern Citizen Serial number for Date of Manuafacture?



## SC-Texas

Does anyone know how to decode the modern Citizen Serial numbers for date of Manufacture?

In the old serial numbers, the first number was the year and the next two numbers were the month.

The new serial numbers dont seem to follow the year, two digits for month model.

Does anyone have an answer?


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## SC-Texas

Do these serial numbers follow the standard serial number patterns for citizen?

My serial number starts with 491020998 and is laser engraved v. stamped.

Is the 4 a 2014?

9 September? but shouldn't that be 09 under the old coding scheme?










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## SC-Texas

And no one here has a clue about reading citizen serial numbers ?

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## hoss

Im trying to find this out too. Why doesn't anybody know this?


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## Byron2701

Unfortunately I do not know it for sure, but:

1. I ordered my JP2000-08E beginning of this year and it says 81...serial number









2. Acc. to a thread here, Citizen switched from engraving to laser printing 2017/2018 at this Aqualand (maybe other models also?)

https://www.watchuseek.com/f905/citizen-aqualand-jp2000-08e-real-not-4661635.html

Because of this 2 points I ASSUME that it is right that first digit is still year, second digit month.

br Gerald


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## espiga

Good Day Everyone,

Another example from my Citizen Promaster JW0111 S/N: 591020XXX
1,000,000 gives the manufacturer room for long production and digits combination.
My theory:
Digit 1: 5=Year
Digit 2: 9=Month ("N" (November) or "D" (December) - Aqualand on the link provided the "D" example)
Digit 3: 1=Million
Digit 4: 0=Sequence of the million
Digit 5: 2=Sequence of the million or another code-common to most watches
Digit 6: 0=Manufacturing Serial number capable of 9,999 watches
Digit 7: X=Manufacturing Serial number
Digit 8: X=Manufacturing Serial number
Digit 9: X=Manufacturing Serial number

Have a great day.


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## SC-Texas

That is an interesting change. If Citizen is now using a single digit for the month plus N, D, that tracks what Seiko has always done.
This is the old vintage serial number system.

"The first three numbers in the serial are used for the date - the first number is the year. So, using the Seven Star pictured above left as an example, with a serial number of 90203597, the first number of the serial is '9' indicates the year. But which decade is it from? . . . . . 
The month is easier since Citizen used the second and third numbers in the serial to represent the month - 02 on this one means production in February."

https://sweep-hand.org/vintage-citizen-case-backs/


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## John_Frum

Brand new NY0040-50E (black dial with bracelet) purchased just two weeks ago, all the way from Italy. The English/Italian date wheel is quite nice to have in this watch with its Italian Navy history.

Case back is laser etched with serial 841050xxx.

I assume the 8 represents the year and the 4 the month? 
Was citizen laser etching promaster casebacks in 2008? Or is the ny0040 still being made in 2018?


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## SC-Texas

That appears to be the new serial number in scheme. So April of 2018 period under the old scheme, that would not make any sense because the old scheme used a two digit month identifier

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## John_Frum

2 digits to represent the week of the year is also possible but would not make sense for my case if 2018 is manufacturing year. Saw a post from 2017 in another thread:



jerouy said:


> Specifically, how to tell its year/month of manufacture?
> View attachment 12328855
> 
> So the serial number is 741XXXXXX. Now, according to some posts here and there, Citizen uses the 1st digit to represent year and following 2 digits to represent month.
> 
> I am wondering how to read this one? What the heck is month 41?
> 
> P.S. It's a NY0040 if you are asking. Does it indicate Citizen is still producing it in year 2017?? Fingers crossed...


Another April but from 2017? My caseback says "Water Resist" instead of Air Diver's.


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## SC-Texas

We need to see if they use the letters O, N and D for the last month's of the year


John_Frum said:


> 2 digits to represent the week of the year is also possible but would not make sense for my case if 2018 is manufacturing year. Saw a post from 2017 in another thread:
> 
> Another April but from 2017?


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## John_Frum

SC-Texas said:


> We need to see if they use the letters O, N and D for the last month's of the year
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Picked up my BN0150 from the post office. Customs certainly do take their time to release stuff.

Looks like it was made in October 2017. Serial number is 7O1020xxx. So it seems they are using letters for the last months of the year.

First digit of serial is the last digit of the year, second digit is the month (0-9, O, N, D)


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## DigPT

Whats the date of produtction?? Can anyone tell me?


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## 356746

DigPT said:


> Whats the date of produtction?? Can anyone tell me?


September 2018


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## DigPT

356746 said:


> September 2018


Thanks.

I know It was from 2018 (even got the citizen 100 years commemorative box), just didn´t know the month.

There were rumors that citizen had stoped the production of the ny0040, but look like not yet.


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## DigPT

What about his one? Think it still has the old citizen serial number...


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## faheemyazdani

I bought a Citizen Promaster BN0151-09L watch yesterday from WatchShop UK (AD) and I have a 9 digit serial number beginning 63. According to what some people have speculated, that means the watch was manufactured in April 2016.

Has it really been sitting in the stockroom for 3 years?! 

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## mi6_

faheemyazdani said:


> I bought a Citizen Promaster BN0151-09L watch yesterday from WatchShop UK (AD) and I have a 9 digit serial number beginning 63. According to what some people have speculated, that means the watch was manufactured in April 2016.
> 
> Has it really been sitting in the stockroom for 3 years?!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


No March 2016. April is the 4th month. Yes it was probably sitting in a box for 3 years.


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## faheemyazdani

mi6_ said:


> No March 2016. April is the 4th month. Yes it was probably sitting in a box for 3 years.


Lol yes I realised I wrote April instead of March.

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## J_NL

DigPT said:


> What about his one? Think it still has the old citizen serial number...
> 
> View attachment 13972799


December 2014.


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## DigPT

Thank you J_NL


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## dgaddis

espiga said:


> Good Day Everyone,
> 
> Another example from my Citizen Promaster JW0111 S/N: 591020XXX
> 1,000,000 gives the manufacturer room for long production and digits combination.
> My theory:
> Digit 1: 5=Year
> Digit 2: 9=Month ("N" (November) or "D" (December) - Aqualand on the link provided the "D" example)
> Digit 3: 1=Million
> Digit 4: 0=Sequence of the million
> Digit 5: 2=Sequence of the million or another code-common to most watches
> Digit 6: 0=Manufacturing Serial number capable of 9,999 watches
> Digit 7: X=Manufacturing Serial number
> Digit 8: X=Manufacturing Serial number
> Digit 9: X=Manufacturing Serial number
> 
> Have a great day.


Bringing this thread back up.

I don't understand what you mean for digits 3, 4, and 5.

I've got a PMD56-2952, a JDM Promaster Land titanium watch I love. I bought in May 2019, the serial number is 921030121 - so I understand it was made in Feb 2019 and is number 121, but I'd love to know what the '103' means.

I'm a bit confused about the 121 too - I don't really have any sense of scale as far as how many of these they make every year, but this model has been in production since at least 2011 (I found a '5 month review' posted in Feb 2012), surely they've made more than 121 of them in ~8 years, right? SO....is mine really 121, or is it 30,121? 121 seems low, 30,121 seems high, but again, I don't have a good sense of scale for this. It is a JDM only model, not a world-wide release.

In this review you can see the caseback and it's serial number is 5O1020062 - meaning it was made in Oct 2015 and is number 62....or 20,062. Now, it is a slightly different models tho, that's the green dial, mine is black dial. 62 makes more sense if mine is 121 after 8 years, 62 is is logical after 4 years. Whereas if mine was 30,0121 after 8 years you'd expect after 4 years to be closer to 15,000something, but that's assuming they make the same number of each, which I obviously don't know. I do know the green one is a bit cheaper...is that because there's more of them, or because it's less desired?

Am I over thinking this? Absolutely. Do I still want to know what the 103 means? Absolutely! haha. Thanks for any insight from anyone who might know.


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## dgaddis

Okay, a I found a few more examples. The last 3 digits obviously isn't just a chronological number or count.

This article has a greed dial version 461020174 - which would be June 2014, #174 Obviously they can't make #174 a year and change before they make #062 I mentioned above.


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## CitizenPromaster

Hi dgaddis, I have gathered a lot of serial numbers for specifically the PMV65-2271 and compared them to other 9 digit serial numbers and here is what I think.

Example of full serial number: 3N1010105 [Year of batch][Month of batch][1=2010s (2=2020s)][01 factory code????][Number, Number, Number, Number, so up to 9,999 per batch]
*Digit 1-3* = example 3N1 = 2013, November, 1 = ? The 3rd digit is almost always 1 on watches I have seen, but maybe it was put there to be able to have a production batch of more than 9,999 watches (or 999 watches if digit 6, a 0, is just a spacer digit), or multiple production batches during the same month, so production batch 1 can become production batch 2, because I have seen a watch where the 3rd digit was 2. It might also be a decade indication (like 1st decade of production, 2nd decade of production), otherwise if a watch stays in production for more than 10 years, you would get duplicate serial numbers if the batch is produced in the same month as a previous batch the decade before. See below update for the actual meaning of the first three digits.
*Digit 1-3* = example 3N1 = 2013, November, 1 = Produced in 20*1*0s, so 2011 - 2019. 2 = produced in 20*2*0s. So 1D1 is December 2011, 1D2 is December 2012.
*Digit 4-5* = example 01 = Well, I have seen different models where it is 00 or 01, or 02, or 03 or 05. I'm 100% certain it is unrelated to the last 4 digits, my theory is that it denotes the production facility and that digit 4 is a spacer digit = 0. Interestingly, from late 2010 to 2015 all PMV's had a serial like [Y][M][1]01[0NNN], but from 2016 to 2018 they were all [Y][M][1]02[0NNN]. Maybe they moved the production to a different factory. Also interestingly, the new 1000m diver has 00 as digit 4-5, so this might be a different factory? I would need more serial number samples of different categories of watches (Attesa, The Citizen, Cased in China, Cased in Thailand, ladies watches, etc) to get more insight. But for example, the diver BN0150-28E has 05 as digit 4-5, which I think is a non-Japanese factory. The new CB0171 'CASED IN THAILAND' models are 03, but then again, some other models, that don't have that disclaimer, like the AS7141-60E are also 03, while the caseback on those says 'MADE IN JAPAN'. So, I'm not too sure.
*Digit 6-9* = example 0105 = The first 0, digit 6, might be a spacer digit, like digit 4 seems to be, but in any case this section is the actual production number for the batch in that month of the year. For the PMV I have never seen a number higher than 0477, and from the samples I have, I would guess there are maybe 3 to 5 production batches per year in the case of the PMV with no more than 500 watches produced per batch. Other models might have more frequent production batches. As evidence for this I present the below Notice from Citizen:



> MAY 23, 2019
> 
> *Important notice of software update notification for customers who purchased SATELLITE WAVE GPS F990/F950 model.*
> Thank you for your kind patronage of our CITIZEN product.
> 
> An unexpected phenomenon is confirmed for models with Caliber F990/F950. This phenomenon will occur if the result of "automatic leap second reception* " is failed. While the watch is exposed under strong light in the daytime, this reception repeatedly activates until the reception result is successful. As a result, the battery may run out faster than expected.
> 
> Even this phenomenon will not affect the displayed time of watch or make the watch stop shortly, you are highly recommended to have the software updated so it can be used with confidence.
> 
> Please kindly contact the nearest CITIZEN Service Center if your watch model, case number and serial number are satisfied with the applicable scope in this notice.
> 
> *Applicable Case Number and Serial Number*
> Please confirm "Case Number" and "Serial Number" on the case back.
> 
> *Applicable Case Number*
> F990-T024602／F990-T024629／F990-T024611
> F950-T024521／F950-T024548／F950-T024530
> 
> *Applicable Serial Number (*First 3 digits)*
> <Cal. F990>
> 871, 881, 891, 8O1, 8N1, 8D1, 911
> 
> <Cal. F950>
> 891, 8D1


Here you can apparently see that for the F990 there was a production batch every month, for the F950 there were only two during the same period.

Further evidence that the middle digits denote something like a factory code, the pre-2010 watches had a 6 digit serial number, like:
030089
842801
680724
390064
I'm not sure if this is [Y][M][Factory code][NNN] or [Y][M][NNNN], the latter would enable production batches (per month) of up to 9,999 watches, which I think is an unlikely large amount, and I will try to offer a 'sense of scale' in just a moment. All I know for certain is that digit 3 and digit 4-5 were introduced in 2010, to indicate something that Citizen finds relevant.

So for a sense of scale... Usually limited edition models are 500 or 1,000 or 1,500 watches. It would make sense to make them in one batch with a serial that fits inside the [Y][M][1]01[NNNN] format. However, I've looked at the serial number for limited edition watches, and there is not always correlation between the limited edition number and the number in the serial. See below, two CC7015-55E's. Number *0142 *of 1989, AND serial number 99100*0142*, but number *1539 *of 1989, has serial number 9O100*0738*, so it was produced the next month. This would suggest they were incapable of producing more than 801 watches of this type in a single month, or in the days that remained in the first month of production (September 2019). I think the latter, because the third example is number *1680* of 1989, serial number 9O100*0879*, meaning they did produce at least 879 watches of this type in October 2019.



























And here is another limited edition watch, number *0251 *of 1500, and serial number 87100*0261*. So somehow 10 watches were produced in a previous batch/month.










Similar story for this one, number *171* of 500, serial number 34102*0065*, so in a previous batch/month 106 were produced.










My PMP56-2933 was limited to 3,000 pieces per year, so a limited run for Citizen is 500 to 3000 watches (per year). But now it gets confusing again. If we consider the PMV65-2271 unlimited, my best guess based on my list of about 15 serial numbers is they had about 4 batches per year, with no more than 500 watches per batch, which amounts to 2,000 watches per year. But if they are only making 2,000, what's the point of limiting the production (of the PMP56-2933) to 3,000 watches per year?

My explanation for the limit: the PMP56-2933 was MRK gas hardened and DLC coated, and considering the other models in MRK and DLC (MRK for some Promasters and DLC for some Attesas) the production could not be more than 3,000 per year, even if it proved hugely popular. But when there are no restrictions, if they have any business sense, they still won't make more watches, and still won't have more frequent production batches, than is dictated by the market demand. In other words, I can't imagine them selling more than 2,000 PMV's per year anyway, but maybe if there was enough demand, they could have made maybe 5,000 or 6,000 per year. And I can't imagine them selling thousands and thousands of the PMD56-2952 per year either.

Long story short, I'm not sure what the numbers 103 in your serial number stand for, but I am sure they have nothing to do with how many were produced.

The reason I'm thinking of a factory code (which is then also a country code), is because of the analogy with Toyota VIN codes: Vehicle Identification Numbers (VIN codes)/Toyota/VIN Codes - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

We could just ask Citizen, I'm sure they will tell us, it's probably not a secret.


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## CitizenPromaster

Since I have nothing better to do, here are all the serial numbers I've found for the PMV65-2271, which was released in spring of 2010.

030089 - probably a pre-production model, maybe it means [2010][March][Factory 0 (like the 1000m diver)][number 089] or maybe simply [2010][March][number 0089]

081010106 - new 9 digit serial number introduced
0N1010068
121010051
151010044
191010052
251010014
311010220
351010124
3N1010105
491010243
4N1010168
6O1020317 - here the center digit changes from 1 to 2, maybe the production moved to another facility?
7D1020376
7D1020477 - same batch as the one before this
841020001
841020042 - same batch as the one before this

Now I haven't studied statistics and this is a pretty small sample, but I HIGHLY doubt there were fixed planned batches EACH month, and I just happened to find serial numbers from wildly different months in the early years, and then also just happened to find two serial numbers of the same batch twice for the later years. I mean, what are the odds of that?

I think the early batches (2010-2014) were maybe only 250 watches per batch, and 2 or 3 batches per year depending on demand, and from 2016-2018, perhaps in a different factory, they combined production in one big batch per year of 500 each. That would give a total estimated production from 2010-2018 of maybe (5 years x 3 batches x 250 watches) + (3 years x 1 batch x 500 watches) = 5,250 watches as a conservative estimate, or a little more if we assume there were also watches produced in 2015.

Remember, this is a JDM watch, and sure, there are 126 million Japanese people who buy millions of watches each year, but this is just one of thousands of availabe Citizen models, and Citizen is not the only watch brand in Japan, and there are also many watch brands being imported, so how is Citizen going to sell more than 500 of the PMV65-2271 per year?

IF the '02' indeed is a factory code, it might mean that some JDM watches that say MADE IN JAPAN are actually cased in China, like this watch:










We discussed this in the titanium thread some time ago. It differs per country if they are allowed to say MADE IN JAPAN, or JAPAN MOV'T or if they have to say CASED IN CHINA/THAILAND. So if we find out what the 0/1/2/3/5 means we would have very interesting information. Anyway, the below watch suggests that they actually made 1710 watches of that model that month, so digit 6 is probably not a spacer after all, it is just rare that more than a 1000 get produced in a month.










But it's not rare for the Mont Bell models ;-)


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## Eric.S

I recently purchased one new with a serial number starts with 06, does that indicate maybe it’s manufactured in June 2020?


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## CitizenPromaster

Eric.S said:


> I recently purchased one new with a serial number starts with 06, does that indicate maybe it's manufactured in June 2020?


Makes sense


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## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> 030089 - probably a pre-production model, maybe it means [2010][March][Factory 0 (like the 1000m diver)][number 089] or maybe simply [2010][March][number 0089]
> 
> 081010106 - new 9 digit serial number introduced
> 0N1010068
> 121010051
> 151010044
> 191010052
> 251010014
> 311010220
> 351010124
> 3N1010105
> 491010243
> 4N1010168
> 6O1020317 - here the center digit changes from 1 to 2, maybe the production moved to another facility?
> 7D1020376
> 7D1020477 - same batch as the one before this
> 841020001
> 841020042 - same batch as the one before this
> 
> Now I haven't studied statistics and this is a pretty small sample, but I HIGHLY doubt there were fixed planned batches EACH month, and I just happened to find serial numbers from wildly different months in the early years, and then also just happened to find two serial numbers of the same batch twice for the later years. I mean, what are the odds of that?
> 
> I think the early batches (2010-2014) were maybe only 250 watches per batch, and 2 or 3 batches per year depending on demand, and from 2016-2018, perhaps in a different factory, they combined production in one big batch per year of 500 each. That would give a total estimated production from 2010-2018 of maybe (5 years x 3 batches x 250 watches) + (3 years x 1 batch x 500 watches) = 5,250 watches as a conservative estimate, or a little more if we assume there were also watches produced in 2015.


I already warned that this was a pretty small sample, and it is hard to draw conclusions, but guess what the next serial number is that I find for the PMV?

3O1010011

This might simply mean that they started a batch late October 2013 and finished it in early November 2013.
Or it might mean that batches were more frequent than the above set of serial numbers suggests.

To be continued...


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## CitizenPromaster

I'm borrowing this image from Mitch100 and his August 2008 SST limited edition to further 'proof' that there is no spacer digit for the sequential number, this limited run of 1500 watches happened to be produced all in the same month. I guess Citizen doesn't have OCD where they want all the limited models to have a serial number that matches the 'limited' number, so they just start production at a point where sometimes part of the run has to be produced in the next month.


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## Triku

I hope you can help me. I have bought a PMD56-2952 with reference 961030265. The watch is almost new but I think it is not from 2019 but from 2009. How can I know?

Later I will tell you the reason why I suspect it is from 2009 and not 2019. Thank you.

Enviado desde mi Mi 9T mediante Tapatalk


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## CitizenPromaster

Triku said:


> I hope you can help me. I have bought a PMD56-2952 with reference 961030265. The watch is almost new but I think it is not from 2019 but from 2009. How can I know?
> 
> Later I will tell you the reason why I suspect it is from 2009 and not 2019. Thank you.
> 
> Enviado desde mi Mi 9T mediante Tapatalk


I think it would be a 6 digit serial number if it were from 2009, like on the 2951 below and on other watches I've talked about here.


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## Triku

CitizenPromaster said:


> I think it would be a 6 digit serial number if it were from 2009, like on the 2951 below and on other watches I've talked about here.
> View attachment 15529870


Thank you Citizenpromaster. 
So Citizen used the six-digit serial number before 2010 (excellent information from you on this post and above) so the watch should be from 2019. Cardboard boxes are different. Before they used a bigger and better one (photo1) and from 2017-2018 they used a smaller one. I may be confused but that's what surprised me, u. 2019 watch with old box. They may simply use one type of box or another interchangeably.

Enviado desde mi Mi 9T mediante Tapatalk


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## CitizenPromaster

Triku said:


> Thank you Citizenpromaster.
> So Citizen used the six-digit serial number before 2010 (excellent information from you on this post and above) so the watch should be from 2019. Cardboard boxes are different. Before they used a bigger and better one (photo1) and from 2017-2018 they used a smaller one. I may be confused but that's what surprised me, u. 2019 watch with old box. They may simply use one type of box or another interchangeably.
> 
> Enviado desde mi Mi 9T mediante Tapatalk


I don't think all watches are shipped to the dealers in 'fixed' boxes. Some definitely are, but I've seen the same watches, even from a limited edition run, sold with a different 'original' box. It seems to me that a dealer just grabs whatever box he has laying around. And even if it came to them in the 'newer' box, they could have put the watch in the showroom, and put the box aside and then gave that 'newer' box away to another customer. I've noticed that Citizen puts the identifying tag on the watch with a piece of string, and often the box is just generic.

This is what I mean by the tag, no box in sight:








Who knows what kind of box they will ship it out in?

Others offer the watch (from 2017 it seems) with this box:









But that box is just generic, it's all about the tag:









And sometimes you get this generic box with your 2952:









And I also found this box:









And finally a PMD56-2952 from 2019 *from the same batch as your watch *with the box it came in:


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## CitizenPromaster

Here is a pre-2010 PMD56-2952 with 6 digit serial (August 2007):


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## Triku

CitizenPromaster said:


> I don't think all watches are shipped to the dealers in 'fixed' boxes. Some definitely are, but I've seen the same watches, even from a limited edition run, sold with a different 'original' box. It seems to me that a dealer just grabs whatever box he has laying around. And even if it came to them in the 'newer' box, they could have put the watch in the showroom, and put the box aside and then gave that 'newer' box away to another customer. I've noticed that Citizen puts the identifying tag on the watch with a piece of string, and often the box is just generic.
> 
> This is what I mean by the tag, no box in sight:
> View attachment 15530198
> 
> Who knows what kind of box they will ship it out in?
> 
> Others offer the watch (from 2017 it seems) with this box:
> View attachment 15530199
> 
> 
> But that box is just generic, it's all about the tag:
> View attachment 15530202
> 
> 
> And sometimes you get this generic box with your 2952:
> View attachment 15530218
> 
> 
> And I also found this box:
> View attachment 15530233
> 
> 
> And finally a PMD56-2952 from 2019 *from the same batch as your watch *with the box it came in:
> View attachment 15530234
> 
> View attachment 15530236


Amazing CitizenPromaster, thanks for answering and for the very specific answer and for your time. I have learned a lot with you. I didn't know much about Citizen until three months ago but now I'm very interested in it. I have two 2952s on the way. One for me and one for my wife.

Enviado desde mi Mi 9T mediante Tapatalk


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## CitizenPromaster

Triku said:


> Amazing CitizenPromaster, thanks for answering and for the very specific answer and for your time. I have learned a lot with you. I didn't know much about Citizen until three months ago but now I'm very interested in it. I have two 2952s on the way. One for me and one for my wife.
> 
> Enviado desde mi Mi 9T mediante Tapatalk


My pleasure. Very cool that you and your wife will have the same watch!


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## CitizenPromaster

So I found a serial number for the JY8020-52E, the European version of the PMV65-2271 (there are small differences, like Duratect TIC vs Duratect MRK, and no micro-adjust clasp).

411020116

So the JY already had the 2 as digit 5, in January 2014, when the PMV still had a 1. What does that tell us? They moved production of the PMV to the JY factory in 2006?

I really have to ask Citizen one of these days...


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## CitizenPromaster

The Yahoo Japan Gods have blessed me with two more PMV65-2271 serial numbers (*bold*), which brings the list to:

030089 - probably a pre-production model, maybe it means [2010][March][Factory 0 (like the 1000m diver)][number 089] or maybe simply [2010][March][number 0089]
081010106 - new 9 digit serial number introduced
*0O1010034*
0N1010068
121010051
151010044
191010052
*1D1010083*
251010014
311010220
351010124
3O1010011
3N1010105
491010243
4N1010168
6O1020317 - here the center digit changes from 1 to 2, maybe the production moved to another facility?
7D1020376
7D1020477 - same batch as the one before this
841020001
841020042 - same batch as the one before this


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## Triku

CitizenPromaster said:


> My pleasure. Very cool that you and your wife will have the same watch!


Thank you. 
One on de PMD56 is from 2019 but the other one is from 2020 I think but...the serial number is 02Xx with 9 digits so it could be from 2020. 









Enviado desde mi Mi 9T mediante Tapatalk


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## CitizenPromaster

I'm guessing this became 022 in stead of 021 because it is the second decade of production for this model. Technically it's the third decade, but the second decade with a 9-digit serial number.


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## Triku

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm guessing this became 022 in stead of 021 because it is the second decade of production for this model. Technically it's the third decade, but the second decade with a 9-digit serial number.


Thank you CP.

Enviado desde mi Mi 9T mediante Tapatalk


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## CitizenPromaster

Little update for my own entertainment:

030089 - probably a pre-production model
081010106 - new 9 digit serial number introduced
0O1010034
0N1010068
121010051
151010044
191010052
1D1010083
251010014
311010220
351010124
3O1010011
3N1010105
491010243
4N1010168
6O1020317 - here the center digit changes from 1 to 2, maybe the production moved to another facility?
*7O1020047*
7D1020376
7D1020477 - same batch as the one before this
841020001
841020042 - same batch as the one before this


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## CitizenPromaster

To my shock and horror, I found a PMV65-2271 2019 serial number, that might indicate another factory change, but the bad part is, they seem to now use the simpler bezel of the non-JDM JY8020-52E (I have discussed the knurled bezels in the Titanium thread), or at least a less refined bezel.

030020 - 6 digit serial number still in use
030089
040167
081010106 - new 9 digit serial number introduced
0O1010009
0O1010034 - same batch as the one before this
0N1010068
111010###
121010016
121010029 - same batch as the one before this
121010051 - same batch as the one before this
121010054 - same batch as the one before this
121010091 - same batch as the one before this
131010094
151010044
151010100 - same batch as the one before this
191010008
191010052 - same batch as the one before this
1O1010096
1O1010183 - same batch as the one before this
1D1010083
221010115
221010181 - same batch as the one before this
221010187 - same batch as the one before this
251010014
251010094 - same batch as the one before this
261010170
271010047
281010168
281010199 - same batch as the one before this
311010220
311010255 - same batch as the one before this
351010124
3710100##
3O1010011
3N1010105
3D1010064
441010120
491010243
4N1010168
4D1010105
53101####
5O1010388 - first example of last three digits higher than 300
5D1010537 - second "highest" serial number I've seen in a batch (using up stock before moving production to another facility?)
5D1010629 - "highest" serial number I've seen in a batch (using up stock before moving production to another facility?)
641020391 - here the center digit changes from 1 to 2 (and the laser-etched fonts on the caseback change), the production moved from Japan to China?
661020034
6O1020244
6O1020317 - same batch as the one before this
741020179
7O1020047
7D1020068
7D1020255 - same batch as the one before this
7D1020376 - same batch as the one before this
7D1020477 - same batch as the one before this
801020442
801020534 - same batch as the one before this
841020001
841020042 - same batch as the one before this
841020221 - same batch as the one before this
961030010 - here the center digit changes from 2 to 3 (and the laser-etched fonts on the caseback change), the production moved from China to Thailand?
961030080 - same batch as the one before this - also less refined bezel knurling
9N1030021 - also less refined bezel knurling
9N1030209 - same batch as the one before this - also less refined bezel knurling
9N1030287 - same batch as the one before this - also less refined bezel knurling
9N1030313 - same batch as the one before this - also less refined bezel knurling
9N1030354 - same batch as the one before this - also less refined bezel knurling
022030063 - new decade, third digit becomes 2 - also less refined bezel knurling
022030140 - same batch as the one before this - also less refined bezel knurling
022030147 - same batch as the one before this - also less refined bezel knurling
022030197 - same batch as the one before this - also less refined bezel knurling
242030307 - still in production, also less refined bezel knurling


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## CitizenPromaster

My theory is that much of the final assembly has been moved to China and Thailand, and my guess is watches with a 2 in the middle of the serial indicate production in China, and watches with a 3 in the middle of the serial indicate production in Thailand. But I might be wrong! And to reiterate, I know there are JDM Citizens with a 2 that say MADE IN JAPAN on the caseback, but according to some their rules of origin aren't very strict, or less strict than in the US or the EU. This was also discussed in the Titanium thread.

Citizen built a huge factory in Thailand in 2011, and it started out making parts, but it makes sense to also move the final assembly there once the quality control is up to par.

*Citizen going ahead with its second watch factory*

After a delay of a couple months because of the floods in Thailand, Citizen Watch Japan will soon start construction on its 3-billion-yen (Bt1.2 billion) second factory here.

"Despite the floods, we are still quite confident in the potential of Thailand because of its fair and high-quality workers. They also have very good technical knowledge of our watch products," James Nakai, a director of the company, said yesterday.
The plant, located in Rojana Industrial Estate in Ayutthaya province, will produce watch parts such as outer cases and bands.
When construction of the factory, which had to be redesigned because of the flooding, is completed in two years, 100 per cent of the output will be shipped to Citizen's factories in the region, including Japan and Hong Kong, he said.
The company's first factory, called Royal Time Citi, was set up 25 years ago near Don Mueang Airport as a joint venture with local partner C Thong Panich. Citizen Watch later bought out its partner.
The first factory does assembly work and some of the case manufacturing.
"We have lots of factories in Japan for making watch machines and final assembly. We also have factories in South China and Brazil for parts and bracelets," Nakai said.
About 70 per cent of the total production of Citizen watches will be for export, while 30 per cent will be for local consumption in Japan.
Because of the economic difficulties in Europe, the United States and Japan, all of the company's sales expectations are in Asia.
"We expect our sales in Asia to increase significantly by 30 to 40 per cent annually.
"Thailand will be one of the potential markets and a shopping destination especially for tourists from China, who have high purchasing power," Nakai said.
Vipavan Mahadumrongkul, managing director of C Thong Panich, said that because of the floods, the company now expected its sales to increase 12 per cent this year, which is lower than the earlier 20-per-cent target.
"However, we plan for 20-per-cent growth in sales also next year. The target will be achieved if there are no negative factors next year, especially political unrest and flooding," he said.

Source: Citizen going ahead with its second watch factory (nationthailand.com)


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## CitizenPromaster

1810*7*0131, interesting...

And then almost same model:
















8910*2*0097, well the 2 we see a lot.


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## CitizenPromaster

JDM CB0177-23E


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## CitizenPromaster

Eco-Drive One AR5000-50E, I'm pretty sure center digit 0 denotes a Japanese factory (as well as 1).


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## CitizenPromaster

CB0206-86X, released in October 2020, built in September 2020, but why already a 2 as the third digit? 09*2*030468. Very confusing...


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## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> My theory is that much of the final assembly has been moved to China and Thailand, and my guess is watches with a 2 in the middle of the serial indicate production in China, and watches with a 3 in the middle of the serial indicate production in Thailand. But I might be wrong! And to reiterate, I know there are JDM Citizens with a 2 that say MADE IN JAPAN on the caseback, but according to some their rules of origin aren't very strict, or less strict than in the US or the EU. This was also discussed in the Titanium thread.


This BN0220-16E from 1386paul has 5 as the center digit and it says CASED IN CHINA, which indicates that factory "5" is also in China.








Confusingly, a watch being offered in Singapore has virtually the same serial number, but it doesn't say CASED IN CHINA.








The render or prototype on Citizen.jp also lacks the CASED IN CHINA, but the actual product shipped from Japan (his watch came from Sakura) does say CASED IN CHINA.










CitizenPromaster said:


> CB0206-86X, released in October 2020, built in September 2020, but why already a 2 as the third digit? 09*2*030468. Very confusing...


Rather annoyingly this watch also says 16*2*, when June 2021 is the first month of production. So far, with the exception of two recently introduced watches, the theory that the third digit indicates the consecutive decade of production held true, so that you don't get duplicates if production lasts for more than 10 years, which it does in some cases. But again, this brand new watch has a 2 as the third digit, so does that mean they already made 9,999 watches that month with serial 161? I doubt it, but I currently have no other explanation.


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## Triku

Maybe there is no such a 161xxxx series. 
1- 2021
6- June
2- just +2020 year production. Second decade of time. 

So the first one of this model could be: 162XY0000 or 161XY0001
And no such a 161XY0001 to 161XY9999 as the first 10000 units. 

X or Y are the Factory code as you said.


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## CitizenPromaster

Triku said:


> Maybe there is no such a 161xxxx series.
> 1- 2021
> 6- June
> 2- just +2020 year production. Second decade of time.
> 
> So the first one of this model could be: 162XY0000 or 161XY0001
> And no such a 161XY0001 to 161XY9999 as the first 10000 units.
> 
> X or Y are the Factory code as you said.


It could indeed be that 16*1* is the 20*1*0s and 16*2* is the 20*2*0s, that is consistent with this recent NY0040 from October 2020.


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## CitizenPromaster

For the BN0190-82E they moved the production from China (2) to China (5)


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## CitizenPromaster

This limited edition CC7015-63E is truly made in Japan (factory code 0), and this serial confirms that the third digit (2) now denotes the 2020s.


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## Triku

CitizenPromaster said:


> This limited edition CC7015-63E is truly made in Japan (factory code 0), and this serial confirms that the third digit (2) now denotes the 2020s.
> 
> View attachment 16050541


My AT8181 is 00203xxx

That confirms that the third digit(2) is from 2020s. I think so.


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## CitizenPromaster

Then Citizen is ready for the next 78 years


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## Boris T

Great work, thank you. I've been using 'The Citizen serial number decoder', to find the production dates of my Citizen watches from here...
"https://serial-number-decoder.co.uk/citizen/citizen.htm"

Having just checked my new NY0040 serial number the site gives the production date as Dec 2011 or 2021. As my watch has a laser decorated back and a 8204 movement, both are clearly wrong. Using your method I get Jan 2021, so all good now. Thanks again.


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## Boris T

Just a quick pic of my new baby, which came with the 8204 movement with hacking and was born in Jan 2021. It's on a cheap Marine Nationale elastic nylon strap...


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## DB Broward

Bumping an old (durable!) thread cause (a) this serial #s issue is fascinating and (b) this serial #s issue is frustrating. Also ... (c) I just today received a JP2000 Aqualand of my own--and I love the thing. Wanted one ever since I first saw "The Big Blue." Will dive with it at first opportunity.

This thread has been enormously informative, but I'm still somewhat in the dark about the build date of MY watch. It's "new" as in "unworn, etc" for sure. Got a Citizen factory warranty card with it (ordered from an authorized dealer). But is it "new new" or "new old old stock new"?

Here's what I know:

1) The first five numbers of the 9-digit serial are 21205. Is that January 2022? Or Jan 2012??? Or something else?
2) The serial is laser-etched. The switch to laser etching was mid-2000s or so, yes? Might that then rule out Jan 2012? Serials switched from 6 to 9 digits around late 90s/early 2000s?
3) The rubber strap on my watch does NOT have the ND Limits printing on it. I think that went away with the latest JP2000s (my strap does not have the new plastic buckle of the new April/May version, tho)? But my watch DID come in the yellow Citizen scuba cylinder packaging. I thought that had disappeared years ago but maybe it has come back?

Whatever age it is, it's so cool. My only real concerns are potentially having to change the battery soon and the chance of old gaskets inside. But it sure seems fresh.

Thanks for any wisdom.


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## DB Broward

Ah! I think my question has been answered thanks to another nearby thread!

It seems "2120" = January 2022 (second year, first month, 2000s). So my watch is "new new"!









The Definitive Citizen Aqualand / Depth Meter C02X...


Certainly a shame, but then again, the price has remained the same despite 25 years of inflation? i guess there's always a positive! :)




www.watchuseek.com





Thank you, @CitizenPromaster !!

BTW ... I, too, wish there were a way to adjust the second hand ever so slightly -- the bezel aligns perfectly, but the second hand ... not so much (not that I care all that much).


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## CitizenPromaster

DB Broward said:


> Ah! I think my question has been answered thanks to another nearby thread!
> 
> It seems "2120" = January 2022 (second year, first month, 2000s). So my watch is "new new"!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Definitive Citizen Aqualand / Depth Meter C02X...
> 
> 
> Certainly a shame, but then again, the price has remained the same despite 25 years of inflation? i guess there's always a positive! :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you, @CitizenPromaster !!
> 
> BTW ... I, too, wish there were a way to adjust the second hand ever so slightly -- the bezel aligns perfectly, but the second hand ... not so much (not that I care all that much).





CitizenPromaster said:


> 232= *2*nd year, *3*rd month, 20*2*0s, so March 2022.


Indeed, your Aqualand is as fresh as a daisy!

But now that the thread is back to life, there is a new serial issue that is driving me crazy.

Now all of a sudden I see two "center" digits! Like on the watch below (BN ), and they even claim it is MADE IN JAPAN (NB6004-08E).








The above being from November 2022, but then instead of 00, 03 or 05, as is most common, it says 36, followed by the four digits for the individual number. This is a stock photo, but delivered watches have the same format, like this NB6004-83E from June 2021:









Citizen still sells watches in Japan that say MADE IN JAPAN on the caseback but are made in China according to the center digit (5), so I don't know what to make of this "36".


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## DB Broward

CitizenPromaster said:


> Indeed, your Aqualand is as fresh as a daisy!
> 
> But now that the thread is back to life, there is a new serial issue that is driving me crazy.


I'm beginning to think the intent of these overly complex Citizen serials is simply to keep the members of WUS entertained--and/or scratching our respective heads! 😆

Best of luck decoding this one ... and thanks again for all the insights and lore shared in this forum. In addition to "carbon-dating" my Aqualand, I can now also confirm my EcoZilla was built in Feb 2018!


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## CitizenPromaster

For some reason I only see the center digit 7 on Citizens from The Signature Collection. They also say JAPAN MOV'T so we can rule out Japan. I doubt they have a factory purely for one line of watches though, so I find it very strange.


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## CitizenPromaster

Made in Japan? Only the movement!










This tag makes no such claims.









The caseback shown above is a very recent Nighthawk, April 2020, made in Thailand (center digit 3). The one below is from 2018.










Earlier models have a differently laser engraved serial, like this one from 2016.









Previously they were made in China (center digit 2), and the serial looked different yet again.


















Before 2010 (the one above is from 2011) Citizens had a shorter serial number without information about the production facility, as can be seen below on a very early Nighthawk from 2004.










As you might know the EU/Asia Nighthawks had a nicer caseback, but they were made in China (2) like the US version..


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## raptorx

so how does one differentiate the year of manufacture for a certain watch that has been on the market for over 2 decades? ex PMD56-295x (?) or bm8180(?) etc

the starting serial number can be 92xxxxxxx which is 2019 feb, but can it also be 2009 feb MFG date?

why can't watch MFGs just engrave mfg date as feb2019 for simplicity?


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## CitizenPromaster

raptorx said:


> so how does one differentiate the year of manufacture for a certain watch that has been on the market for over 2 decades? ex PMD56-295x (?) or bm8180(?) etc
> 
> the starting serial number can be 92xxxxxxx which is 2019 feb, but can it also be 2009 feb MFG date?
> 
> why can't watch MFGs just engrave mfg date as feb2019 for simplicity?


The answer to your question has more or less been given in this thread I think, but here is the summary.

2020s = 9 digits, third digit being 2
2010s= 9 digits, third digit being 1
2000s= only 6 digits, as there was no factory code and no decade code, so for example 881416 = August 2008, watch #1416. And February 2009 would be 92xxxx.

The serials have differed in the number of digits in the 70s, 80s and 90s, I won't go into all that, but they always began with the year (1 digit) and month (with 1 or 2 digits for the month).

Why not make it more obvious? Because manufacturers don't want you to know if you are buying an old watch, they only want the dealers and themselves to know. I think most (Swiss) brands don't even have serials that you can date as a consumer without special knowledge about the production runs.


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## raptorx

CitizenPromaster said:


> The answer to your question has more or less been given in this thread I think, but here is the summary.
> 
> 2020s = 9 digits, third digit being 2
> 2010s= 9 digits, third digit being 1
> 2000s= only 6 digits, as there was no factory code and no decade code, so for example 881416 = August 2008, watch #1416. And February 2009 would be 92xxxx.
> 
> The serials have differed in the number of digits in the 70s, 80s and 90s, I won't go into all that, but they always began with the year (1 digit) and month (with 1 or 2 digits for the month).
> 
> Why not make it more obvious? Because manufacturers don't want you to know if you are buying an old watch, they only want the dealers and themselves to know. I think most (Swiss) brands don't even have serials that you can date as a consumer without special knowledge about the production runs.



Thanks for the clarification!

would be nice actually if all watch brands have the MFG date and model number engraved for simplicity, sometimes people can see a certain model number but it's not even engraved on the caseback, instead of having to dig the internet forums for more info, you have it right there on the watch itself !


----------

