# Bronze questions...



## Legmaker72 (Aug 16, 2006)

So I've never owned a bronze watch before, so I had some questions.
How hard is the bronze alloy that Anonimo uses? Does it mark up, ding etc, easier then say SS? How does it compare in weight to SS?
Does it come polished? How does it patina over time? anything you have to do to it for it to patina?
Hmmmm, I think that's all I have for now !:-d

Thanks in advance guys!
Christopher


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## mkpierro (Aug 28, 2009)

Just bought a Bronze Marlin. The weight is about the same or maybe a little lighter than the PAM 000.

I bought it two weeks ago and it had a goot amount of patina on it already. I think just exposing it to the eliments will do that. I actually wanted start clean and have it patina with me, so I committed a sin and polsihed it lightly. It still has a nice warm green/brown hugh to it.

In terms of hardness, I heard that it is harder than steal, but not sure. I would be consierned about straches though, because you would be cutting away the patina and showing the shinny bronze below. I think normal wear is fine, but a big ding may show more on this than on stainless.

Good Luck,
Michael


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## nelsondevicenci (Nov 30, 2009)

may be you can request help on that here :

https://www.watchuseek.com/f74/bronze-roll-call-many-pics-525434-post3861078.html


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## lorsban (Nov 20, 2009)

Edited. I wrongly associated bronze patina to be rust, when bronze doesn't rust.


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## phunky_monkey (Dec 9, 2008)

mkpierro said:


> In terms of hardness, I heard that it is harder than steal, but not sure. I would be consierned about straches though, because you would be cutting away the patina and showing the shinny bronze below. I think normal wear is fine, but a big ding may show more on this than on stainless.
> 
> Good Luck,
> Michael


See, I actally think it may be the other way around as when it is scratched that section will then develop a patina, and due to the patinas inconsistency all over the watch it would perhaps help to hide any minor scratches and dings... but I may be wrong. Hoping not to find out, but it's inevitable with very regular use unfortunately.


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

Legmaker72 said:


> ....How hard is the bronze alloy that Anonimo uses? Does it mark up, ding etc, easier then say SS? How does it compare in weight to SS? Does it come polished? How does it patina over time? anything you have to do to it for it to patina?...Christopher


 Since I have three bronze Anonimo, I can at least share my experiences based on my watches. The alloy is as hard as steel in practical terms--I haven't gouged, dented or scratched any of them any more significantly than any of my SS watches, and with brushed or satinated surfaces, any marks are pretty hard to see. Weight doesn't seem to be any different than SS. When new, and not floor display models, they arrive relatively polished. As for the patina question, it is similar to sterling silver--left unattended, and exposed to the elements (moisture) it will darken over time. If you then buff it, the darker areas that aren't touched by the cloth will remain dark, and the buffed areas will brighten again. If you want to accelerate the aging, darkening process, of course, don't polish it (see the links provided above for tips on how to encourage the patina process). 
Peter


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## stew77 (May 15, 2009)

*Hi Legmaker,*

*I've posted this before, so I'm just posting again here since you asked...here are my comments on the UNI 5275 Bronze used by Anonimo (and a few others):*

Just to set the record straight regarding the true physical properties of Bronze (and I'm talking specifically UNI 5275 Bronze that is being used most commonly in the manufacture of recent watch cases... as there are many, many different varieties of "Bronze"...many of which are much softer than the UNI 5275 alloy). While some makers are using a different Bronze than UNI 5275 (CuAl11Fe4Ni4), I can say that Anonimo, Helson with their Bronze Shark Diver, and Benarus with their Bronze Moray are using this Bronze alloy.

Let's compare the very basic mechanical properties of each that may be causing you to make comments regarding its hardness and risk to scratching and being more suseptable to nicks. I have seen some variation is specs depending on the source, but this summary of the basic specs seems to be conservative and reliable.

In general, Alloy UNI 5275 is a heavy duty, dense, high strength alloy with hardness equal to manganese bronze with excellent resistance to seawater corrosion and fatigue. This alloy has good wearing qualities and is suitable for elevated temperature use. It exhibits good shock and high stress qualities making it suitable for heavy duty, high shock and high impact applications, bearings, worm gears and helical gears.

UNI 5275 Bronze Alloy - Nickel Aluminum Bronze (CuAl11Fe4Ni4)

Mechanical Properties [Typical] Continuous Cast
Yield Strength 300 MPa
Ultimate Tensile Strength 680 MPa
Typical Hardness 200 HB (Brinell)​
and now Stainless Steel 316L (we know that Titanium is much softer and more succeptable to scratches and nicks)

Stainless Steel Grade 316L

Mechanical Properties [Typical] Continuous Cast
Yield Strength 290 MPa
Ultimate Tensile Strength 558 MPa
Typical Hardness 217 HB (Brinell)​
As you can see at a very basic level the UNI5275 Bronze offers slightly superior strength (and known better resistance to corrosion) which is one of the reasons it is used in marine applications such as ship propellers. I would say that the basic material hardness is fairly comparable between ss and the UNI 5275 bronze with ss getting a slight edge here with an approximately 8% greater hardness. Keep in mind that the 'oxidation' layer that forms on Bronze is considered a key advantage to the metal as it provides a protective layer to the base material that is considered harder than the base metal as well. Sorry I don't have any specific reference to quote for the specific hardness of Bronze oxidation.:think:

I think that the biggest driver for Bronze or Not-Bronze is an aesthetic one...some people really like the look of Bronze new, and some really like the look of it as it develops the deep patina that the material will develop with wear, age, and exposure to environmental elements. Some people don't care for it at all, and I would say that I've read a number of opinions from those that really don't like the patina that bronze develops and don't "get it".

I'm one of those that loves the patina that Bronze cased watches develop over time...a very unique look which IMO offers no "performance disadvantages" to some of the more mainstream materials like stainless steel.

All IMO, of course...:-!

Hope that helps,

Chris


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## phunky_monkey (Dec 9, 2008)

Great post Chris.


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## nelsondevicenci (Nov 30, 2009)

Nimo bronze pieces comes with the upper side of the case polished bronze and the sides is sand blasted bronze.


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## amers (Nov 5, 2008)

Adding to Chris' already kickin post.....The first Benarus Moray bronze used the UNI5275 alloy (same as Anonimo) while their upcoming second edition uses an CuSn8 alloy. Which is the same alloy being used on the new PAM382. CuSn8 has a different, warmer bronze colour and I only mention this since you can find photo's of aged and non aged PAM382's for comparison.


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## Legmaker72 (Aug 16, 2006)

Thanks for the great information guys!


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## StefB (Feb 19, 2010)

Excellent post from Chris. 

I'd be interested in everyone's opinion - what do you like better with your bronze pieces: patina or polished? 

And perhaps an even better question - what dial color goes best with bronze as it patinas? Blue, green, brown, black, white, ....? Would love to see everyone's opinions on this question.


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## phunky_monkey (Dec 9, 2008)

For me it has to have a strong Patina to be really appealing in my eyes. The fact that it develops this patina is the main reason I purchased a bronze piece as it gives you something quite different to the rest of the watch world without going for Titanium (which marks easily and is too light for me), gold (which I find gaudy, unless used sparingly such as on a Polluce), PVD (marks easily, and quite common). I also love the fact that it gives you the look of something that's been plucked from the ocean - gives the pieces a real 'old world' feel.

As for face colour, I'm just a touch biased... but champagne as it really pops against the patinated case while still integrating perfectly with the overall design. A very close second is the green for me, but used on the right model such as the Marlin or perhaps on a Polluce - I doubt I'd like it much on a Nautilo.


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