# Porsche 911 4S or Nissan GTR?



## drawman623

I've enjoyed my AMG for the last 3 summers and the car is nearing 30K on the odometer. I thought I might trade into something different. Not better or faster...just different.
The 911 and GTR are at the spending limit I have set for myself. I've made a choice, but having always driven MB products, I lack experience with these two cars. Your insight would be appreciated.

Does anyone have experience with both of these luxury sports cars? Either? If not, feel free to offer your answer if you would like to.
Which would you choose? Why? Why not?


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## Gunnar_917

Before I provide advice I have a couple of questions:

Have you driven either?
what style of cars do you like (and don't say Mercedes because that's an open ended response)
How do you like them to drive? 
Steering feel? 
Acceleration type?
What AMG do you have? 
What else have you owned? 
What do you look for in a car?

The above being said, they are both hit and miss cars to be honest, both are AWD. I'm yet to drive an AWD car that feels 'alive'. They are quick to drive and you don't need to be a good driver to be fast in one yet they have all lacked soul (best on my list was a Gallardo).

Unless of course you take AWD on dirt or a wet road, then they are a charmer!


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## walltz

Never driven both before, i'm a bimmer lover but based on my personal opinion i would say since both are AWD the next is comfort and the 911 it's my pick.
Not only is it more comfortable it is also better to look at.


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## onkyo

Without a doubt 911. Though I have to admit I have never driven a GTR. Porsche is a super fun car to drive with great handling, acceleration, braking, etc.


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## marcmc

I've never driven a GTR, but I'd still pick the 911 if for no other reason than you can option it with a manual.


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## ilitig8

First, do you own a fire suit and a helmet... that honestly impacts my choice.

I will assume you don't spend lots of time on the track since you would have probably mentioned it. The GTR is a violent hurricane bottled up in a comfy electronic safety net. It is one of those stupid fast cars that is near point and shoot to drive, wicked fast on the track (once you adjust your brain to the AWD driving style) but darn near insomnia inducing on the road at anything short of go directly to jail speeds. Sure you can get the tactile interaction with the steering and the tight suspension but those aren't "fun" they just indicate the car could be fun in the right environment. 

The 911 4s is probably my least favorite of the 911s, AWD without the added benefit of the locomotive level power rush of the Turbo. Great car no doubt but it is the one that leaves you wanting just a little more.

As primarily road cars the steering while still VERY good for these two is going to be quite different from good RWD cars.

Your budget buts you right in the middle of two of the best drivers cars made, the M3 and GT3 BUT it puts you right smack on top of what is certainly one of the best drivers cars ever built. The Porsche GT4. If you want track times the GTR will deliver, if you want what is truly a sublime drivers car (that is home on the track as well) drop any Cayman bias you may have and beg a dealer to sell you a GT4. If you can you must.


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## drawman623

Gunnar_917 said:


> Before I provide advice I have a couple of questions:
> 
> Have you driven either?
> what style of cars do you like (and don't say Mercedes because that's an open ended response)
> How do you like them to drive?
> Steering feel?
> Acceleration type?
> What AMG do you have?
> What else have you owned?
> What do you look for in a car?
> 
> The above being said, they are both hit and miss cars to be honest, both are AWD. I'm yet to drive an AWD car that feels 'alive'. They are quick to drive and you don't need to be a good driver to be fast in one yet they have all lacked soul (best on my list was a Gallardo).
> 
> Unless of course you take AWD on dirt or a wet road, then they are a charmer!


I have driven the 911 Carrera and enjoyed it. I was not impressed by its acceleration, particularly the torque band. I have not driven the GTR. My winter car here in the pothole/road salt Mecca of New England is a Maxima. Seeing the GTR at my local dealer was an afterthought.

Steering feel is my favorite aspect of driving.
Acceleration is far less important. I have no interest in street racing or tracking the car. I have a fast car now.

My AMG is the 2008 CLK 63. Only 100 cars were imported. It has the same 6.2L normally aspirated hand built engine as the CLK Black. (475-500 HP)
The AMG has 6 piston caliper breaks and despite its weight, stops well. The car has tall gears and is formidable in straight line full acceleration.
The steering feel is better than my 2012 BMW 1 series IMO (tho I like both). The amenities are luxurious. If anything, the car suffers from lack of traction, or imbalance between power and traction. 
I want a change because I know the AMG...it is time for a new experience.

Previous to that, I owned a CLK 430. 300hp non AMG.

The bulk of the time I enjoy the car will be highway driving, enjoying the feel and sound of a sports car well within its performance limits. Many have tried to bait me into racing...it's not my thing. I enjoy the rush of speed but I dislike the fear that follows acting like a fool on road. I want to feel the road and grip the turns. In my case, one needn't exploit a car's limits to enjoy it.


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## drawman623

ilitig8 said:


> First, do you own a fire suit and a helmet... that honestly impacts my choice.
> 
> I will assume you don't spend lots of time on the track since you would have probably mentioned it. The GTR is a violent hurricane bottled up in a comfy electronic safety net. It is one of those stupid fast cars that is near point and shoot to drive, wicked fast on the track (once you adjust your brain to the AWD driving style) but darn near insomnia inducing on the road at anything short of go directly to jail speeds. Sure you can get the tactile interaction with the steering and the tight suspension but those aren't "fun" they just indicate the car could be fun in the right environment.
> 
> The 911 4s is probably my least favorite of the 911s, AWD without the added benefit of the locomotive level power rush of the Turbo. Great car no doubt but it is the one that leaves you wanting just a little more.
> 
> As primarily road cars the steering while still VERY good for these two is going to be quite different from good RWD cars.
> 
> Your budget buts you right in the middle of two of the best drivers cars made, the M3 and GT3 BUT it puts you right smack on top of what is certainly one of the best drivers cars ever built. The Porsche GT4. If you want track times the GTR will deliver, if you want what is truly a sublime drivers car (that is home on the track as well) drop any Cayman bias you may have and beg a dealer to sell you a GT4. If you can you must.


No helmet...not a racer. Call me "up for insomnia" 

I entertain the GTR because my threshold of arousal is fairly low. I do not drift through turns with traction control off. I'm not a skilled driver. I thought I might like a car that makes every driver capable of control at high speed, hence the GTR. My heart is still with the 911.

As for the GT4, I can only lay claim to my bias. I don't want a Boxter variant. The 911 has the look and reputation that I prefer. I wouldn't make the emotional compromise, even if the GT4 is a great driving machine. I don't mean to disparage; but it comes down to a preference for me. As for the M, my AMG has walked away from several. If I am going to give up 100hp, I want the Porsche. Again it is personal preference.

I would enjoy knowing more about your reservations on the 4S. Especially given the context that I am an enthusiast, not a purist driver. If I am to become more than that, it will follow buying and experiencing my first 911.


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## 887146

drawman623 said:


> No helmet...not a racer. Call me "up for insomnia"
> 
> I entertain the GTR because my threshold of arousal is fairly low. I do not drift through turns with traction control off. I'm not a skilled driver. I thought I might like a car that makes every driver capable of control at high speed, hence the GTR. My heart is still with the 911.
> 
> As for the GT4, I can only lay claim to my bias. I don't want a Boxter variant. The 911 has the look and reputation that I prefer. I wouldn't make the emotional compromise, even if the GT4 is a great driving machine. I don't mean to disparage; but it comes down to a preference for me. As for the M, my AMG has walked away from several. If I am going to give up 100hp, I want the Porsche. Again it is personal preference.
> 
> I would enjoy knowing more about your reservations on the 4S. Especially given the context that I am an enthusiast, not a purist driver. If I am to become more than that, it will follow buying and experiencing my first 911.


The GT4 is not a "Boxter variant," not that being a Boxter variant would be a bad thing. The GT4 is the most well-balanced car mentioned in this thread, and among the best drivers anywhere in the world.

The current M cars have lost my interest since ditching that wonderful screaming S65/S85 V8/V10.

My AWD Porsche is a 997.1 Turbo, so I'm glad to have the AWD. If I were in your shoes, I'd look at the GT4 or a 911 2S or 911 GTS--the GT4 being the safest by design. If I didn't need a small backseat, I'd have a GT4.


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## drawman623

Thanks all for this feedback. I'll look at Carrera 2S as well.


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## Stelyos

drop a level and get a cayman GT4


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## GT4 RN

drawman623 said:


> No helmet...not a racer. Call me "up for insomnia"
> 
> I entertain the GTR because my threshold of arousal is fairly low. I do not drift through turns with traction control off. I'm not a skilled driver. I thought I might like a car that makes every driver capable of control at high speed, hence the GTR. My heart is still with the 911.
> 
> As for the GT4, I can only lay claim to my bias. I don't want a Boxter variant. The 911 has the look and reputation that I prefer. I wouldn't make the emotional compromise, even if the GT4 is a great driving machine. I don't mean to disparage; but it comes down to a preference for me. As for the M, my AMG has walked away from several. If I am going to give up 100hp, I want the Porsche. Again it is personal preference.
> 
> I would enjoy knowing more about your reservations on the 4S. Especially given the context that I am an enthusiast, not a purist driver. If I am to become more than that, it will follow buying and experiencing my first 911.


I've driven many cars and I'm still loyal to Porsche. A GTR is nice if you don't care about "driving". The GTR is like a video game. If you care about the driving experience and you're a driver, then the GTR is NOT it. 
Look and reputation? Then the GT4 is it unless you just want a run-of-the-mill Porsche. The GT4 is highly praised by every car person. Evo Magazine named it Car of the Year of the GT3 RS, McLaren, Ferarri 488, Lamborghini Aventador SV. The GTR wasn't even a contender.]

I don't think you would like a GT3 (which was my second choice) since I'm getting the impression you're not much of a purist/driver. My 3rd choice was a 911 GTS. The GTS felt excellent on the track. It's the perfect balance of a track car and a daily driver.



Stelyos said:


> *Go up a* level and get a cayman GT4


Fixed


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## MichaelKG

Get a 991 S/4S/GTS mk1 (so pre-facelift). Better and more fun sounding cars than the facelift.


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## AlphaM911

drawman623 said:


> No helmet...not a racer. Call me "up for insomnia"
> 
> I entertain the GTR because my threshold of arousal is fairly low. I do not drift through turns with traction control off. I'm not a skilled driver. I thought I might like a car that makes every driver capable of control at high speed, hence the GTR. My heart is still with the 911.
> 
> As for the GT4, I can only lay claim to my bias. I don't want a Boxter variant. The 911 has the look and reputation that I prefer. I wouldn't make the emotional compromise, even if the GT4 is a great driving machine. I don't mean to disparage; but it comes down to a preference for me. As for the M, my AMG has walked away from several. If I am going to give up 100hp, I want the Porsche. Again it is personal preference.
> 
> I would enjoy knowing more about your reservations on the 4S. Especially given the context that I am an enthusiast, not a purist driver. If I am to become more than that, it will follow buying and experiencing my first 911.





drawman623 said:


> I have driven the 911 Carrera and enjoyed it. I was not impressed by its acceleration, particularly the torque band. I have not driven the GTR. My winter car here in the pothole/road salt Mecca of New England is a Maxima. Seeing the GTR at my local dealer was an afterthought.
> 
> *Steering feel *is my favorite aspect of driving.
> Acceleration is far less important. I have no interest in street racing or tracking the car. I have a fast car now.
> 
> My AMG is the 2008 CLK 63. Only 100 cars were imported. It has the same 6.2L normally aspirated hand built engine as the CLK Black. (475-500 HP)
> The AMG has 6 piston caliper breaks and despite its weight, stops well. The car has tall gears and is formidable in straight line full acceleration.
> The steering feel is better than my 2012 BMW 1 series IMO (tho I like both). The amenities are luxurious. If anything, the car suffers from lack of traction, or imbalance between power and traction.
> I want a change because I know the AMG...it is time for a new experience.
> 
> Previous to that, I owned a CLK 430. 300hp non AMG.
> 
> The bulk of the time I enjoy the car will be highway driving, enjoying the feel and sound of a sports car well within its performance limits. Many have tried to bait me into racing...it's not my thing. I enjoy the rush of speed but I dislike the fear that follows acting like a fool on road. I want to feel the road and grip the turns. In my case, one needn't exploit a car's limits to enjoy it.


So why are you considering a GTR???


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## ilitig8

I get the Cayman bias, I do. In the end the GT4 and the M3 are the drivers cars under 100k, sure the M3 has evolved and I still think the best iteration was the E36 with the S50 engine, but the current ones still have the same genes. If you prefer the stop light to stop light of the AMGs vs the M cars get the GTR it isn't pretty, rather boring on the street but is violently fast. It sounds like you are looking for a luxury muscle car, which quite frankly AMG does the best, it isn't built for tidy lines but tail wagging, tire smoking good times, torque has its benefits.


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## Nokie

I have driven a GTR before and they are brutal in terms of acceleration. Typical Japanese construction, tight and well built. 

The only thing I don't like it the rear deck design, otherwise it really hauls the mail when you put your foot in it.


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## GT4 RN

ilitig8 said:


> I get the Cayman bias, I do. In the end the GT4 and the M3 are the drivers cars under 100k, sure the M3 has evolved and I still think the best iteration was the E36 with the S50 engine, but the current ones still have the same genes. If you prefer the stop light to stop light of the AMGs vs the M cars get the GTR it isn't pretty, rather boring on the street but is violently fast. It sounds like you are looking for a luxury muscle car, which quite frankly AMG does the best, it isn't built for tidy lines but tail wagging, tire smoking good times, torque has its benefits.


The bias of being one of the best sports cars of the year basically every year? I love that bias. "Driver's car of the year", "Car of the year", "the perfect driver's car", "UK's best driver's car"..etc etc. It's great to own a GT4 

BMW doesn't really make sports cars. I can't remember the last sports car they've made. They made fast grand tourers.


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## drawman623

AlphaM911 said:


> So why are you considering a GTR???


I had leaned toward the Porsche from the beginning. The following for the 911's is vast. When I realized the GTR was similar in cost, I put out this thread without indicating my bias. I wanted to confirm what I was thinking or discover something new.

I have long respected the autonomy AMG affords its owners. I can disengage traction control and release AMG hell in sport mode...no restrictions right up to the rev limiter. It is a car that requires a driver's care and respect. Forget for a moment and that power can break away and spin you. Choose an uneven road surface at 25 mph and press full throttle; the tires can smoke...they can even break away on a downhill grade. The engine is quiet and composed but has this alter ego. I'm looking for a bit more balance, even if I give up some power.

My bias against the gtr is that there is less autonomy afforded the driver. I heard that track mode, for instance, can only be accessed when GPS confirms the car is on a bona fide track. I admit no practical knowledge of the car, but I prefer the flexibility to enjoy stability management OR not...full power or not. I suspect the German philosophy is to empower the driver rather than the car itself. That closes the case for me on the GTR


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## drawman623

ilitig8 said:


> I get the Cayman bias, I do. In the end the GT4 and the M3 are the drivers cars under 100k, sure the M3 has evolved and I still think the best iteration was the E36 with the S50 engine, but the current ones still have the same genes. If you prefer the stop light to stop light of the AMGs vs the M cars get the GTR it isn't pretty, rather boring on the street but is violently fast. It sounds like you are looking for a luxury muscle car, which quite frankly AMG does the best, it isn't built for tidy lines but tail wagging, tire smoking good times, torque has its benefits.


I have enjoyed the "luxury muscle car" model. No too stiff nor too loud...just able to burst into speed if called upon. Now I'm eager to experience a more engaging drive.

I thought the 4S would put power to ground better than RWD versions. Is it the opinion of Porsche loyals that the back end should be allowed to slide trough turns with a skilled use of the throttle? I have seen this type of driving but confess my car with me at the wheel is ill suited. What is the "soul" that is lost to AWD?


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## ilitig8

GT4 RN said:


> The bias of being one of the best sports cars of the year basically every year? I love that bias. "Driver's car of the year", "Car of the year", "the perfect driver's car", "UK's best driver's car"..etc etc. It's great to own a GT4
> 
> BMW doesn't really make sports cars. I can't remember the last sports car they've made. They made fast grand tourers.


You are barking up the wrong tree. I already said the GT4 is the best drivers car under 100k but if you think there isn't a significant bias against the Cayman not only in the general public or the car community you are deluded.

There is no question BMW makes their bones in the GT world and the M3 essentially defined (defines) the segment but they are still a venerable favorite drivers car which is equally at home on the track or storming the Dragon's Tail.

The OP likes what the AMG brings to the table which in my view is a luxury muscle car, more motor than chassis. Porsche (across the board) as well as the GTR have a different philosophy. The GTR should not be unleashed fully on public roads, period, that is what tracks are for, nor should any of the cars being considered here. From a performance standpoint the GTR is going to be the most similar to an AMG but it is still a different philosophy, anyone that needs more performance on the road than a GTR can give needs their license revoked. I am, however, still nonplussed by the S4 vs GTR question, it just doesn't make sense. The S4 is the least "drivers car" of the current 911 line, the 911 that fits the OP best (from what I can divine) is the Turbo, especially after a visit to a tuner like AWE. While it doesn't have the refinement I bet the OP would get a kick out of driving a new Z06 as much as I hate to say it.


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## ThomG

I would prefer the GTR. Having driven both the Porsche and GTR on a track, I much prefer the GTR. The GTR's detractors can say what they like, the performance of the GTR on the track is just stunning. Were it not for the outrageous maintenance costs of the GTR, I would consider trading in my NSX for one. But the lines of my NSX are just too beautiful, so that's out.


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## Gunnar_917

drawman623 said:


> My bias against the gtr is that there is less autonomy afforded the driver. I heard that track mode, for instance, can only be accessed when GPS confirms the car is on a bona fide track. I admit no practical knowledge of the car, but I prefer the flexibility to enjoy stability management OR not...full power or not. I suspect the German philosophy is to empower the driver rather than the car itself. That closes the case for me on the GTR


Don't get all your car info from Top Gear ;-) That's a JDM feature of the GTR.

Yes and no, German cars are quite clinical in how they deliver their goods (yes even AMGs, to a point). There are not many cars on the market these days that are genuinely bonkers, and the ones who make them are from small manufacturers and stupidly expensive. Drive some of the Japanese cars from the early 90s, they were wonderfully pure, raw machines. They were what German cars were through the late 80's and early 90's (albeit done slightly differently).

Anyway I'm detracting. Given what you say about the AMG I'm surprised that you like the 4S. Make sure you drive a 2WD 911 before you decide though, I think you'll like it a bit more than the 4WD version as they do have more feel and are more involving.

Out of left field have you ever driven/considered an Evora? They are not as pure as an Elise but given the creature comforts you have they are a really nice drive. Then again that's pretty much any Lotus.


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## drawman623

I'm generally not a fan of the Lotus product on aesthetics. I doubt I would fit comfortably ether. If I were to pass on Porsche, it would be to save a bit more and reach for the R8

My path to the 4S is simple. My AMG overpowers its tires easily...across varied driving situations. It is a fine luxury car with muscle. My next choice will have a greater emphasis on traction. It appears those with practical experience are warning me that too much grip can take some joy out of the process as well.

I have intentions to drive an S before moving forward with a 4S. I won't pass on a chance to compare the GT4 to the 911's. I may update the thread after more driving. 

Thanks all for your opinions and insights


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## zhan

Why would you get a GTR when its getting redesigned next year?


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## 887146

drawman623 said:


> I'm generally not a fan of the Lotus product on aesthetics. I doubt I would fit comfortably ether. If I were to pass on Porsche, it would be to save a bit more and reach for the R8
> 
> My path to the 4S is simple. My AMG overpowers its tires easily...across varied driving situations. It is a fine luxury car with muscle. My next choice will have a greater emphasis on traction. It appears those with practical experience are warning me that too much grip can take some joy out of the process as well.
> 
> I have intentions to drive an S before moving forward with a 4S. I won't pass on a chance to compare the GT4 to the 911's. I may update the thread after more driving.
> 
> Thanks all for your opinions and insights


The AWD is different for two primary reasons: 1) extra weight, and 2) the wheels that steer are also pushing the car forward. You can't ignore the hardware required to drive the front wheels, and you can't ignore the difference between turning a wheel that is passively rolling (2S) and turning a wheel that is actively driving forward (4S). The effect of the latter is understeer--the tendency of the car to plow forward instead of turning. Porsche has done as admirable a job as any in working around these effects, but the basic physics don't change. If you want to "put the power to the ground" in a straight line, then AWD is the way to go--in a late model 911 Turbo, whichever one you can afford. The Turbo is also quite comfortable, by the way.

If taking a curve on a winding road faster than you had ever dreamed it could be done is your cup of tea, then you gotta drive a GT4. Forget about whether it is a Cayman variant, or a Boxter variant, or a Nissan, or an AMG. Just go drive the GT4. The two guys driving the GT4 in the Continental Tire Sportscar Championship 'GS' class in Daytona a couple of weeks ago were having a blast!


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## AlphaM911

L_P said:


> The AWD is different for two primary reasons: 1) extra weight, and 2) the wheels that steer are also pushing the car forward. You can't ignore the hardware required to drive the front wheels, and you can't ignore the difference between turning a wheel that is passively rolling (2S) and turning a wheel that is actively driving forward (4S). The effect of the latter is understeer--the tendency of the car to plow forward instead of turning. Porsche has done as admirable a job as any in working around these effects, but the basic physics don't change. If you want to "put the power to the ground" in a straight line, then AWD is the way to go--in a late model 911 Turbo, whichever one you can afford. The Turbo is also quite comfortable, by the way.
> 
> If taking a curve on a winding road faster than you had ever dreamed it could be done is your cup of tea, then you gotta drive a GT4. Forget about whether it is a Cayman variant, or a Boxter variant, or a Nissan, or an AMG. Just go drive the GT4. The two guys driving the GT4 in the Continental Tire Sportscar Championship 'GS' class in Daytona a couple of weeks ago were having a blast!


Exactly what I wanted to say except in less detail. Thanks!
Understeer and extra weight.

About the GT4, exactly! I was just watching the Continental Tires race the other day as I'm a huge Porsche fan/GT4 Owner.


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## max902

zhan said:


> Why would you get a GTR when its getting redesigned next year?


Great point alert!


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## Reinhard Immanuel

GTR is the way to go


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## jhopes

i will go with 911 ..... the ride is fun


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## blinktesty

I advice you go for Porsche911....I use it and is really giving me comfort.


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## thedern

ThomG said:


> I would prefer the GTR. Having driven both the Porsche and GTR on a track, I much prefer the GTR. The GTR's detractors can say what they like, the performance of the GTR on the track is just stunning. Were it not for the outrageous maintenance costs of the GTR, I would consider trading in my NSX for one. But the lines of my NSX are just too beautiful, so that's out.


I would assume that maintenance costs are on par with what it costs to acquire either one of the vehicles in-question. If one would argue that maintenance is outrageous, one could also argue that paying ~$102,000.00 for a GTR is equally outrageous. In short, if you have that kinda scratch, who cares what it costs for an oil change, brake job, etc, etc?

Disclaimer: I drive a Ford Expedition, Ecoboost and really have no business being in this conversation


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## Clocked

I can't speak on the 911 as I've never driven a Porsche, but I can tell you they are the ultimate driver's car. I don't know if that means anything to you. I can speak on the GTR, though. A good friend of mine has owned 2 in the past, I've whipped it around a good amount of times. My goodness, it's just a beast on the road.


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## Berwolf

Car guy and I have experience with both. I would take the 911 over the GTR everyday. 911 is much more refined, can be had with a stick or DCT, AWD or 2WD. Pretty much if you can imagine it Porsche will sell it you. The car drives nice, good power and torque, won't melt your face but it is sufficient. The ride and handling are very good. I recommend the S, sport chrono package and sport exhaust with a DCT. Nobody does a DCT as good as Porsche. Not as much cargo space as the GTR (I tried to fit golf clubs in a GT3, didn't work due to the fixed back seats) as well as the back seat is smaller, but seats do fold down for more storage. 

As for the GTR, the transmission is pretty bad and the ride is so-so. The quality just isn't there for $100k car. If you want a car that is quicker than the numbers on the page though it is pretty good at that. Straight line and on track I was pretty surprised because it doesn't have huge power but just pulls and will also hustle on track with the AWD and electronics. 

Sorry, mostly a stream of conscience, but hope that helps.


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## AlphaM911

thedern said:


> I would assume that maintenance costs are on par with what it costs to acquire either one of the vehicles in-question. If one would argue that maintenance is outrageous, one could also argue that paying ~$102,000.00 for a GTR is equally outrageous. In short, if you have that kinda scratch, who cares what it costs for an oil change, brake job, etc, etc?
> 
> Disclaimer: I drive a Ford Expedition, Ecoboost and really have no business being in this conversation


Since the GTR came out, owners were reporting their annual maintenance costs and they were ridiculous.



Berwolf said:


> Car guy and I have experience with both. I would take the 911 over the GTR everyday. 911 is much more refined, can be had with a stick or DCT, AWD or 2WD. Pretty much if you can imagine it Porsche will sell it you. The car drives nice, good power and torque, won't melt your face but it is sufficient. The ride and handling are very good. I recommend the S, sport chrono package and sport exhaust with a DCT. Nobody does a DCT as good as Porsche. Not as much cargo space as the GTR (I tried to fit golf clubs in a GT3, didn't work due to the fixed back seats) as well as the back seat is smaller, but seats do fold down for more storage.
> 
> As for the GTR, the transmission is pretty bad and the ride is so-so. The quality just isn't there for $100k car. If you want a car that is quicker than the numbers on the page though it is pretty good at that. Straight line and on track I was pretty surprised because it doesn't have huge power but just pulls and will also hustle on track with the AWD and electronics.
> 
> Sorry, mostly a stream of conscience, but hope that helps.


Exactly. As I mentioned before, if you're a driver, there's nothing like a Porsche. It's the all-around package from looks, performance, feel and feedback, BUILD QUALITY, REFINEMENT, etc etc. 
But from reading the OP's post he doesn't seem much of the driver/purist time. For track guys like me, Porsche was the best option. There's nothing like the highly-praised GT4.


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## Berwolf

AlphaM911 said:


> Since the GTR came out, owners were reporting their annual maintenance costs and they were ridiculous.
> 
> Exactly. As I mentioned before, if you're a driver, there's nothing like a Porsche. It's the all-around package from looks, performance, feel and feedback, BUILD QUALITY, REFINEMENT, etc etc.
> But from reading the OP's post he doesn't seem much of the driver/purist time. For track guys like me, Porsche was the best option. There's nothing like the highly-praised GT4.


GT4, very nice. I do not have any experience with that one. I have to assume though once you put the engine in the right place and put the Porsche polish on it, it has to be good.


----------



## drawman623

I'm planning a 4S drive this week. 

I read up on ownership cost of the GTR. As another member astutely noted, buying and owning a sports car can be two different things. I would be out of my league maintaining a GTR.

My search is refined to the S vs 4S

A question to the Porsche owners... has the sport exhaust option always come with a selector switch? I like the idea of being able to tame the exhaust note when desired.


----------



## AlphaM911

drawman623 said:


> I'm planning a 4S drive this week.
> 
> I read up on ownership cost of the GTR. As another member astutely noted, buying and owning a sports car can be two different things. I would be out of my league maintaining a GTR.
> *Yup. Even when it was just around $75,000 the first few years, it was very expensive to maintain. Even moreso than a Porsche.*
> 
> My search is refined to the S vs 4S
> *4S- more weight, slightly different handling characteristics especially at the limit (understeer), more moving parts, etc.
> But excellent if this will be your DD and you want to drive it in the snow/rain, etc. Put on a set of Pirelli Sottozero Winter tires and it's very confident.
> S- This would be the choice for me of course. More of the purist Porsche. The only AWD Porsche I would buy myself is the 911 Turbo which I almost bought until I miraculously got an allocation for a GT4.
> 
> Unless you really get to push the car during the test drives, I don't think you'll really be able too much of a difference between the S and 4S.
> Aesthically I do love the light bar between the tail lights and the wideeeee hips of the 4S.
> IMO, I think the 4S would be better suited for you (unless you were more of a Porsche purist or track the car).
> *
> A question to the Porsche owners... has the sport exhaust option always come with a selector switch? I like the idea of being able to tame the exhaust note when desired.
> *Yes. Porsche Sport Exhaust comes with the exhaust button to open and close the valves unless the owner buys the PSE after. When the car starts up, the valves are off until you press the button.
> For me the PSE or aftermarket exhaust is a must. It really sounds mean with the valves open. And you coming from the C63 AMG, I highly suggest it.*


^^^Bold


----------



## Berwolf

drawman623 said:


> I'm planning a 4S drive this week.
> 
> I read up on ownership cost of the GTR. As another member astutely noted, buying and owning a sports car can be two different things. I would be out of my league maintaining a GTR.
> 
> My search is refined to the S vs 4S
> 
> A question to the Porsche owners... has the sport exhaust option always come with a selector switch? I like the idea of being able to tame the exhaust note when desired.


I believe the sport exhaust has always come with the switch. I know the 2012 C2S I have experience with had it.


----------



## Brewersprts

I vote to keep your current AMG. I like it way better than the other two you have listed. 

Now if you wanna get into a GT4, or especially a GT3 or even a GT2, that's a different story.


----------



## Frenchguy

I've driven both. One is raw power without refinement. The other one is a Porsche...


----------



## drawman623

Brewersprts said:


> I vote to keep your current AMG. I like it way better than the other two you have listed.
> 
> Now if you wanna get into a GT4, or especially a GT3 or even a GT2, that's a different story.


I love the AMG and have had no mechanical issues. It has been minimal to maintain over the last 3 years. The car has provided plenty of joy and a few thrills. As the Frenchguy notes, the raw power of that engine is significant.

Considering a replacement is about enjoying a different experience...nothing more. Stagnation is the only issue calling me to make a change. I do not fancy myself a car collector so the next challenge beckons. Who knows...maybe I'll discover the magic the Porsche purists enjoy so much.


----------



## max902

GTR is one hell of an awesome car.


----------



## ShortOnTime3

Tough choice, which goes back to what you like and expect in a car. From an AMG you can really go in two direction: less refined with a GTR or more refined with a 911. The smaller AMG cars have a bit more edge, IMO, than they have luxury, so the next car seems like it will emphasize what you like more about your AMG experience. I like the idea of the GTR. It seems like a more engaging and raw experience (despite all of the electronics), though I haven't driven one. I do prefer to row my own gears though, so I might have a problem owning one. But if you don't care, it's currently the best performance option coming from Asia--the NSX will hopefully offer a better balance of luxury and performance. 

Then there's the 911--which of course is a classic. I drove several 997 cars, both the Carrera and Carrera S. I really wasn't all that impressed with how they drove on the street, which goes back to expectations. It was WAY too refined for me. I ended up with an M3 because felt that the refinement of that car was more in keeping with my expectations. For some folks though, it's perfect and if you drive one and it ticks all the boxes for you, nothing else will do.


----------



## AlphaM911

ShortOnTime3 said:


> Tough choice, which goes back to what you like and expect in a car. From an AMG you can really go in two direction: less refined with a GTR or more refined with a 911. The smaller AMG cars have a bit more edge, IMO, than they have luxury, so the next car seems like it will emphasize what you like more about your AMG experience. I like the idea of the GTR. It seems like a *more engaging and raw experience *(despite all of the electronics), though I haven't driven one. I do prefer to row my own gears though, so I might have a problem owning one. But if you don't care, it's currently the best performance option coming from Asia--the NSX will hopefully offer a better balance of luxury and performance.
> 
> Then there's the 911--which of course is a classic. I drove several 997 cars, both the Carrera and Carrera S. I really wasn't all that impressed with how they drove on the street, which goes back to expectations. It was WAY too refined for me. I ended up with an M3 because felt that the refinement of that car was more in keeping with my expectations. For some folks though, it's perfect and if you drive one and it ticks all the boxes for you, nothing else will do.


I completely disagree. Countless amounts of people and I feel it's exactly the opposite, especially when comparing it to a Porsche. It is numb and sterile, boring during normal driving, and very electronic feeling. 
Simply type in "Nissan GTR numb" on google and you'll get many results. Steering feel and feedback is what Porsches are praised for.

The 991 is a different beast than the 997. I've driven most of the 991 lineup on the track and they're amazing.


----------



## bech9

Porsch911 4s or Nissan GTR,do you want to buy one of the car?.


----------



## Gregorinho

Even i am a porsche lover i have to go in this one for the latest GTR , as the 4s is not my personal favourite, the GTR is a very fast and well regarded car that allows people enjoy speed without having to fight the steering


----------



## wjhoffmann

Go with the Porsche - especially if you are getting a 2016 and not a 2017. The'16s are the last of the normally aspirated models and nothing else sounds like that above 6K rpm.


----------



## Rivarama

I would pick the Porsche. The GTR is feels huge by comparison and it's not near as fun to drive or look at.


----------



## RoscoP

Porche because of the chassis. The gtr is really a computer with wheels. A heavy one at that.


----------



## mparthas

I'll take the GTR anyway, better value for money and less ubiquitous; though nowhere as rare as my "inferior" vehicle, below.


----------



## brettinlux

Had both on Nurburg Ring for a few laps and the GT-R would be my choice.


----------



## R35GTR

My weekend car is a GTR. I'd like to chime in with a few points.

The GTR vs 4S is a difficult comparison, they may be at a similar price point but they aren't necessarily comparable in other areas. The difficulties with comparing the Porsche to the Nissan really comes down to what you're looking for out of the vehicle. The GTR is all about consistent performance numbers. We aren't talking about a refined cruiser. This is a car ready to hit the track and consistently crank out numbers. It squeezes out every HP and every G. I'm not putting down the Porsche from a performance standpoint because it can hold its own. But the GTR was pretty revolutionary to the industry when it hit the stage. In terms of ride quality, that's really subjective. I drive all around for hours/miles without any discomfort. I cannot compare the comfort of a new Porsche as I haven't driven any recently. The GTR is a car built around the power delivery of the engine and getting it to the wheels in the most efficient way possible while retaining as much grip on the road as physics allows. This doesn't even delve into the capabilities of the GTR once you get into modifying. But that's a whole other conversation. If you aren't worried about any of what I just brought (pure performance) up you might want to pass up on the GTR and get the Porsche, which excels in a lot of other areas outside of comparing performance numbers of the two cars.


----------



## 3fedor3

Best analogy I can think of is using whiskey. The GTR is like Fireball: tastes good and always gets you drunk. The C4S is like Lagavulin 21: refined and you can appreciate it without getting lit up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## drawman623

3fedor3 said:


> Best analogy I can think of is using whiskey. The GTR is like Fireball: tastes good and always gets you drunk. The C4S is like Lagavulin 21: refined and you can appreciate it without getting lit up.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you saying the Porsche has a peaty aftertaste? 

I sat with my Porsche rep 2 days ago and reviewed expected maintenance costs. Presently am leaning strongly to the Porsche with its lower ownership cost. The AMG was checked out at my local MB dealer and is back on the road. I had almost forgotten how nice it feels...


----------



## Ugly-Nugget

I have driven the cars mentioned and currently own an AMG, to me the GTR is a great machine for what it is but it is a sterile driving experience and you would get board with the point and shoot driving. It would be hard to beat the pure thrill of power in the AMG line up but if you are looking for a change go Porsche. Take a few for a drive but the GT4 is a power punch package.


----------



## AlphaM911

Ugly-Nugget said:


> I have driven the cars mentioned and currently own an AMG, to me the GTR is a great machine for what it is *but it is a sterile driving experience and you would get board with the point and shoot driving.* It would be hard to beat the pure thrill of power in the AMG line up but if you are looking for a change go Porsche. Take a few for a drive but the GT4 is a power punch package.


Exactly what I and the whole world have been saying.

Yes on the GT4. I love mine! Here's mine (w/racing stripes) and 9 more plus a GT3 and GT3 RS (of my friends).


----------



## Ugly-Nugget

AlphaM911 said:


> Exactly what I and the whole world have been saying.


I was just confirming the statements, as a person who has driven these cars.

I have a C63 Coupe Edition 507 with a few mods on it and while it sits through the winter I find myself shopping around but the first drive of the year confirms my love for the car. This all comes down to what you are looking for in a car, personally I like the feeling of the tire ripping muscle car experience that can quickly convert over to a nice relaxing cruise.

As it has been said the 2 cars you are trying to compare are not in the same league IMO, I am not saying one is better than the other but it will come down to what you want in your driving experience.


----------



## TheGeezer

OK OP - I'm a looongtime lurker but I just registered to help you out  I've owned all of of the cars under consideration (including multiple iterations of the 911 - RWD, AWD, AWD TT etc), as well as a C63 (and even the Z4M someone posted about - great car BTW!)

Anyway, without regurgitating what's already been said, while I'd agree that the 911 is the "best" car on your list, I'm not sure it's the best car *for you.* Nothing you're looking at is going to have the immediate punch and the sound of your current AMG. The 911 (even in TT form) just isn't going to hit like you want it too, but if that's ok - if you truly want a totally different experience - the current Carreras are fantastic cars, just be aware that they are more "scalpel" than "hammer."

All that said, I think the AWD cars are getting bit of a hard time here. Again, while it's true that the RWD cars are nominally more tactile, the difference is really very small, and for a non-track goer who wants an all purpose sports car, I can't think of a single reason why the RWD car would be superior. As for the 981 (Cayman/Boxster) cars - those would be my choice as well (my Cayman R is one of the best cars I've ever owned), but again, if you're looking for road presence, prestige, heritage and the like, the 911 is going to be the choice every time.

Finally, might I suggest that you have a look at the new AMG GT? It's got the AMG engine you love, and it truly has all the precision of any non-GT3/4 Porsche. It's a real peach.


----------



## timeisnow

I'd take the Porsche 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## AlphaM911

Ugly-Nugget said:


> *I was just confirming the statements, as a person who has driven these cars.
> *
> I have a C63 Coupe Edition 507 with a few mods on it and while it sits through the winter I find myself shopping around but the first drive of the year confirms my love for the car. This all comes down to what you are looking for in a car, personally I like the feeling of the tire ripping muscle car experience that can quickly convert over to a nice relaxing cruise.
> 
> As it has been said the 2 cars you are trying to compare are not in the same league IMO, I am not saying one is better than the other but it will come down to what you want in your driving experience.


I'm just agreeing with you and stressing it to the other people that haven't driven the GTR. 



TheGeezer said:


> OK OP - I'm a looongtime lurker but I just registered to help you out  I've owned all of of the cars under consideration (including multiple iterations of the 911 - RWD, AWD, AWD TT etc), as well as a C63 (and even the Z4M someone posted about - great car BTW!)
> 
> *Anyway, without regurgitating what's already been said, while I'd agree that the 911 is the "best" car on your list, I'm not sure it's the best car *for you.** Nothing you're looking at is going to have the immediate punch and the sound of your current AMG. The 911 (even in TT form) just isn't going to hit like you want it too, but if that's ok - if you truly want a totally different experience - the current Carreras are fantastic cars, just be aware that they are more "scalpel" than "hammer."
> 
> *All that said, I think the AWD cars are getting bit of a hard time here. Again, while it's true that the RWD cars are nominally more tactile, the difference is really very small, and for a non-track goer who wants an all purpose sports car, I can't think of a single reason why the RWD car would be superior.* As for the 981 (Cayman/Boxster) cars - those would be my choice as well (my Cayman R is one of the best cars I've ever owned), but again, if you're looking for road presence, prestige, heritage and the like, the 911 is going to be the choice every time.
> 
> Finally, might I suggest that you have a look at the *new AMG GT*? It's got the AMG engine you love, and it truly has all the precision of any non-GT3/4 Porsche. It's a real peach.


Yes very true. Best of the group but possibly not the best for him unless he can appreciate a different experience. But do you really feel the 911TT doesn't have as much punch as a C63???? If the 911TT isn't already enough he can easily get a quick ECU flash and you can def feel a big difference.

I also agree with the AWD vs. RWD. I will chose RWD every time, but that's because I track my car.

The AMG GT would be great but it's def much more expensive...


----------



## TheGeezer

AlphaM911 said:


> Yes very true. Best of the group but possibly not the best for him unless he can appreciate a different experience. But do you really feel the 911TT doesn't have as much punch as a C63???? If the 911TT isn't already enough he can easily get a quick ECU flash and you can def feel a big difference.
> 
> I also agree with the AWD vs. RWD. I will chose RWD every time, but that's because I track my car.
> 
> The AMG GT would be great but it's def much more expensive...


To clarify - the TT 911 cars definitely have as much, if not more, ultimate punch than the AMG motors -just a very very different delivery. As much as Porsche has done to "fix" it, the cars still suffer from turbo lag from a stop, whereas the AMG engines really hit from the go, and that may be what the OP is used to and likes (IMO it does tend to "feel" faster even if it's not). Now, to be fair, I do NOT have any (street) time in the very newest AMG turbo engines, so they may have lost some of that character that they had in the last gen cars. (On track I didn't notice any appreciable problems with the AMG GT turbo engines).


----------



## AlphaM911

TheGeezer said:


> *To clarify - the TT 911 cars definitely have as much, if not more, ultimate punch than the AMG motors -just a very very different delivery. As much as Porsche has done to "fix" it*, *the cars still suffer from turbo lag from a stop, whereas the AMG engines really hit from the go, and that may be what the OP is used to and likes (IMO it does tend to "feel" faster even if it's not).* Now, to be fair, I do NOT have any (street) time in the very newest AMG turbo engines, so they may have lost some of that character that they had in the last gen cars. (On track I didn't notice any appreciable problems with the AMG GT turbo engines).


Okay that I definitely agree with. The last 911 Turbo I drove was a 2010. There's almost no thrust under 2,800 RPMs or so and then it just kicks in like a rocket! The 911 Turbo was my dream car as a kid, but this was a problem for me as it go so well when I autocross. But again, apparently an ECU flash fixes this and makes the power delivery much more linear! Again, I passed on a 911 Turbo and purchased the GT4 which was the perfect choice for me. 
If the budget allows, I think the OP would like the 911 GTS as I love that car. I drove it on the track and really enjoyed the experience! It would also do great as a DD which is the best part!

OP, I strongly suggest looking at a 911 GTS as the current generation also has the option of getting it as an AWD.


----------



## ohdavey6286

I would say the 911 but I would shoot for a 2S or GTS if you do not need all wheel drive for the weather. If you want more of a track rat, I would look into the previously mentioned GT4 or perhaps a 997.2 gt3.


----------



## watcher88

Go for the Porsche but the 2S !


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## bryan00

If you pick the gtr then you don't just have a car you have a life companion.


----------



## drawman623

TheGeezer said:


> To clarify - the TT 911 cars definitely have as much, if not more, ultimate punch than the AMG motors -just a very very different delivery. As much as Porsche has done to "fix" it, the cars still suffer from turbo lag from a stop, whereas the AMG engines really hit from the go, and that may be what the OP is used to and likes (IMO it does tend to "feel" faster even if it's not). Now, to be fair, I do NOT have any (street) time in the very newest AMG turbo engines, so they may have lost some of that character that they had in the last gen cars. (On track I didn't notice any appreciable problems with the AMG GT turbo engines).


Mine (the OP's) AMG is a 2008 6.2L normally aspirated engine. As TheGeezer correctly suggests, its push feels formidable to me from a standing stop. In sport mode, the AMG engages 1st gear which in normal comfort mode is not available. This car in sport mode, as a 7 speed automatic, will break the tires away on a standing start, even on a slight down slope. That is the primary reason for my all wheel drive preference now.


----------



## drawman623

AlphaM911 said:


> OP, I strongly suggest looking at a 911 GTS as the current generation also has the option of getting it as an AWD.


My research has led me to the GTS as a top consideration based on enhanced engine performance. They are exquisite.


----------



## lantar

i prefer porsche designs, i would go with the 911


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## klakamaka

did you make a decision yet?


----------



## AlphaM911

drawman623 said:


> My research has led me to the GTS as a top consideration based on enhanced engine performance. They are exquisite.


 Great. I believe this is would be the best decision. I'm still looking at picking up a 911 GTS as a stable mate to my GT4. It's a more pure/raw driving experience than a standard 911/911 S, sounds great, and still perfect for daily driving. The alcantara interior and deviated stitching gives it a nicer touch as well. It's also good to have the option of RWD or AWD, 7spd manual or PDK, Coupe or Convertible. I can't stress how much I enjoyed it on the track. The power delivery is smooth and linear and has a good amount of grunt. I really like how planted it felt rocketing out of a corner. Due to it's rear-engine, I was able to use the throttle to control the amount of oversteer in a corner. I, myself am deciding between a 911 GTS or a 911 Turbo S.


----------



## Miscexpense

ilitig8 said:


> First, do you own a fire suit and a helmet... that honestly impacts my choice.
> 
> I will assume you don't spend lots of time on the track since you would have probably mentioned it. The GTR is a violent hurricane bottled up in a comfy electronic safety net. It is one of those stupid fast cars that is near point and shoot to drive, wicked fast on the track (once you adjust your brain to the AWD driving style) but darn near insomnia inducing on the road at anything short of go directly to jail speeds. Sure you can get the tactile interaction with the steering and the tight suspension but those aren't "fun" they just indicate the car could be fun in the right environment.
> 
> The 911 4s is probably my least favorite of the 911s, AWD without the added benefit of the locomotive level power rush of the Turbo. Great car no doubt but it is the one that leaves you wanting just a little more.
> 
> As primarily road cars the steering while still VERY good for these two is going to be quite different from good RWD cars.
> 
> Your budget buts you right in the middle of two of the best drivers cars made, the M3 and GT3 BUT it puts you right smack on top of what is certainly one of the best drivers cars ever built. The Porsche GT4. If you want track times the GTR will deliver, if you want what is truly a sublime drivers car (that is home on the track as well) drop any Cayman bias you may have and beg a dealer to sell you a GT4. If you can you must.


Very well said. I have owned both of these cars and have to say the GTR was "insane". It's body lines left me feeling as though I had purchased a large shipping crate and the interior feels like it was made from the same cheap Altima plastics. No fit and finish per se. The 4s was beautiful, but underpowered for me. I did do as this post mentioned and got a E92 m3 and put the rest of the budget back for a future project.


----------



## DarrinNYC77

I had a 911 4S... Scariest car I've ever driven. Light as a feather with tons of power. I used it as a daily driver, and it really beat the crap out of me because of the stiff suspension. Amazing car.


----------



## Cape

I love the GTR. Best value in that price range imo


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## rockroyalty

Porsche all the way... GTR drivers ruined the GTR for me.


----------



## mastamuffin

I vote Porsche. I love the GTR but I would go with the 911


----------



## Boomachucka

A friend of mine has had both and rather enjoys the 911 over the GTR... depends on what you're looking at for price between the two. Let's just say he likes to spend his weekends at the track, and has found a pretty solid preference for one over the other.


----------



## Heinz

Given the budget, I'd go with the GTR but the tranny seems to be a troublesome weak link; to the point where it is the only car Nissan will not offer in its Certified Pre-Owned program. I always wondered why that was, until I did a little digging. It's because they don't want to be on the hook for expensive repairs. Outside of that, it truly is deserving of the nickname Godzilla. It's a race car for the commuter masses.


----------



## Bigdaftboy

Buy an RS6 Avant and go super car baiting, faster than the porshe 0-60, failing that 911, although I've only read about the new GTR it's supposed to be alot better car than the previous model or a RR SVR, for nothing other than the noise it makes lol


----------



## 8Artisans

911 OF COURSE!


----------



## ThomG

None of the other cars mentioned can touch the GTR when it comes to overall performance. I've driven this car on the track, and it can hang with practically anything. The problem is the cost of ownership. The matainence cost is off the charts. I know some people who own them, and they don't drive them much. I have an NSX, which is an exceptional car as well. They say the new NSX will be able to out perform practically anything with its super-light-weight composite body, twin-turbo engine, AWD hybrid power assist (extra 100hp just for this alone), and the list goes on and on. Again the cost is out there, the range is around $160 - $250K. I've driven a number of different exotic cars on the track, but I would really like to drive the highest performance version of this car.


----------



## 001

Keep your current C63.

As fast as the ones you've listed, and doesnt make you look like you're having a midlife crisis.


----------



## ThomG

001 said:


> Keep your current C63.
> 
> As fast as the ones you've listed, and doesnt make you look like you're having a midlife crisis.


lol! Or...he could just be a car guy, did that ever occur to you?


----------



## 001

ThomG said:


> lol! Or...he could just be a car guy, did that ever occur to you?


And what car guy lets go the last Normally Aspirated V8 having about 500 BHP?

I consider myself to be a car guy too, and the 911, and especially the GTR are to me, the ultimate 12 year old I know all about cars guy typical wallpaper for whom Paul Walker was the ultimate racer.

And given a choice, I'd take the C63* over any supercar all day. Heck, my ultimate car is a Jetta/Octavia with about 600BHP.

Fast AND practical AND inconspicuous.

*C63 here means 63, which was derived from a 6.3 L engine. The current Turbo 4.0 L is a disgrace to the name, and should be called a C40T.


----------



## Heinz

> The matainence cost is off the charts.


Which blows my mind, considering, you know, Japan. I guess these are too trick for their own good.

I'd bet a beer it's still less than keeping a Lamborghini running. They are awe-inspiring, but Lord have mercy.


----------



## bracky72

Save some cash and get a GT350!


----------



## watchman2655

Going to agree I would prefer the Porsche 911 assuming funds were ok


----------



## Tarasoft11

GTR


----------



## Tarasoft11

gtr is better in performance


----------



## sheik_djibouti

OP- is this still something you're considering? 

I know 2 GTR owners who enjoy their cars, but wish they had a 991. I know zero 991 owners who longed for a GTR instead. GTR will smoke the Carrera 4S in most performance parameters except everyday drivability.


----------



## LikeClockWork

porsche for sure


----------



## Kit.

The 911 is a timeless classic. The GTR is (relatively) new and amazing performance for price. 

Personally I would go with the 911. But it depends on what YOU are after. Follow your heart.


----------



## Nayan Saheb

911 any day of the week. But as many people have pointed out they are two very different cars...it depends a lot on you. The 911 just has a certain oomph to it!


----------



## ResidentR

If you just want to go fast, GTR is the obvious choice. Interior quality has gotten better over time but the 911 has really been perfected over and over again as to what it means to be a luxury car. I personally would go with the 911, since the GTR is impossible to properly enjoy on public roads without considering jail time. You will appreciate the 911 every time you look at it, sit in it, moving or still, city or highway or backroads.


----------



## Petrova

GTR


----------



## tzwick

911. Or another AMG ;-)


----------



## conkmwc

The 911 is hard to beat. I know the GTR is a rocket but some say it has no personality, which the 911 has in spades. You might look into a used Turbo as that’s all wheel drive and outrageously fast.


----------



## r171pt

For me there´s no comparison. Once you you go Porsche you never want another brand. But don´t get me wrong, the GTR is a unique piece of machinery, an admirable one. Though the 911 has something difficult to explain, mostly the smoothness and creaminess of all the moving parts.


----------



## xcellr8tion

C4S without question!


----------



## amptic

Have owned a C4S and rented / driven a GTR. The GTR is great for a weekend track day but wouldn't really recommend it for daily driving. Consumables run a bit more expensive than the 911 (transmission fluid is >$100 / qt and takes...10 quarts, I think?) and the rear view is taken up by the gigantic wing. Would definitely pick the 911 for any sort of commuting, though I kind of regret not going with one of the RWD models. Weather was always either not bad enough to need AWD or in excess of what the ride height could handle and the C4S always felt a little weak at midrange speeds than a C2S.


----------



## PetarN

If you like adrenaline, Godzilla is definately your choice. But if you will use the car daily o on long distance travels, 911 would be better.


----------



## Pharmlou

Which models are you comparing, i.e which year/designation 993/996.... vs which godzilla model? Apologies if it has been mentioned already, did not want to sift through 10 pages.


----------



## MOV

911!


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## Timer7

A couple of years ago I would've said the GTR. It has immense power and stylistically, its a beautiful car.

However, when you're looking at purchasing a sports car, class is something to consider, particularly if you're over the age of 25. Undoubtedly, the Porsche will give you that sense of European prestige which, unfortunately, the Nissan will never be able to offer you. 

Nothing against the GTR though. Absolute monster of a machine.


----------



## THE_BARCODE_GUY

I'd go with an AMG GT-S over either of those. 


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## Reza

911 always

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## qcos

The 911 and AMG GT will be future collectibles. The GT is a timeless design, and the 911 will never die or go out of style either. 

Buy what drives best, over everything. However the 911 likely has more kinks worked out than the AMG GT which is still a young car.


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## huntflyer

911, assuming it's not a 996. Personal favorite is the 993 C4S 


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## WnS

If money wasn't an issue, I'd go the Porsche. Such a refined machine with legendary performance.

But if you're after specs and a controlled budget, go the GTR which is half the price.


----------



## watcher88

Always go for the Porsche.


----------



## DarrinNYC77

My last Porsche was a 2012 C4S. I literally had it for a month and went back to a Range Rover because I just couldn't go slow! The fat P-Zero's, AWD, traction control system, light weight, and low C of G made it the best cornering vehicle I've ever drive. Other cars I've owned include RS5, 2002 911 S, Jaguar XK-R, last generation BMW M5.


----------



## fliqua

911 would be my pick... i'm not a fan of Nissan


----------



## Camdamonium

I'd skip the GT-R because of the owner reputation. In DFW, it looks like most GT-R owners are in their 20s or 30s and are all about street racing. Then there are the people here with the big bucks... they tune them to 800+ (even seen a few 1400+). 

The 911 4S is a more reputable vehicle. it is classy, and no one will mistake it for anything else. Additionally, it will never go out of style. I love the plush of the 911s interior vs. the GT-R's plastic interior with alcantara seats (unless you opt for an I believe 2015+ with the upgraded full redesigned leather interior).


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## DiscoZ

GTR is a boy racer unemotional machine with a ...... sounding ubiquitous turbo V6. Get the 911. I went a step further and got a Shelby GT350 which here in Canada is expensive. 

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## mcwatch12

Porsche without a doubt. I've seen so many GTR's getting driven around by high school students starts to look like a kids car.


----------



## ProjectQuattro

Porsche, every single time. Driving experience, style, and history can't be matched. And because they make so many variations and have so many options you can tailor it the exact way you want.


----------



## Southtown57

I'd pick the 911. Love me some porsche. 

As for people seeing kids driving around in GT-R's. Must live in a rich area with rich parents.


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## Donp34

911 all the way. GTR is quick but the 911 gives you the everyday luxury feel. Plus its so much better looking than a GTR. Hard to pay that kind of coin for a nissan badge


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## 7211773

No expert but i would think the 911 would be more practical, not in terms of any storage or seating but in the ability to get around town in. I am in los angeles so i am biased to anything that is easier to parallel park in.


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## wctah

I wonder who buys Nissan, 911 all the way!


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## Gunnar_917

wctah said:


> I wonder who buys Nissan, 911 all the way!


Visit a racetrack


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## vintage_collectionneurs

I feel the 911 is relatively safer. If I drive a GTR I will be compelled to race every driver that I make eye contact with at the traffic lights.


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## jimbizzle

Porsche 911 4S


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## huntflyer

911 all the way. Iconic design and heritage. 


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## DiscoZ

Get a Shelby GT350 fully loaded with the comfort seats.


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## mkim520

911, resale value, driving experience, pedigree


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## JMann2380

911, can't beat the heritage. Like Jeep, Rolex, etc.


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## Loke-Z

Porsche any day of the week


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## sokol3333

I've only driven the GTR, but I enjoyed the hell out of it when I did.


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## Robert Nalbandov

Definitely Porche! I drove both and can attest to the highest performance level and interior luxury of the former.


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## J969

No doubt a 4s or even better a GTS. I have only driven the Porsche but the experience has remained unmatched and from a looks perspective (although this is always personal) the Porsche is better looking and has a style that is legendary and will last
through times. 



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## FloridaTime

I have always found the 911 to have a unexciting driving experience and honestly downright sluggish acceleration. I am also not a GTR fanboy either, I think that car is getting very dated even with the recent updates. I hate when people flood a thread suggesting different products from the original question so picking between the two a GTR would be my pick. I have a customer of mine who got a stellar lease deal on one so that may be an avenue to explore on the GTR as well.


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## GTmaster

I have a 987 Cayman S w/ manual transmission and I love it so much, I havnt had the chance to drive to drive a 911 but imagine it can only get better. I have driven a GTR and it is so clunky in traffic that it is stressful.


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## ExoticLifestyle

I would have to say the porsche for sure!

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## faizan1990

Haven't owned either, but if I had the option of buying either, I would pick the 911. The GTR is still a Nissan and there is no comparison to German refinement. Porsche is Porsche. GTR also has a subtle look to it, while you recognize a 911 immediately.


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## nikesupremedunk

Even though I have never driven a Porsche yet, that would be my choice. I have driven the GTR and it was nothing like any other cars I've driven before. Pure insanity in all departments but I'd rather come out of a classy 911 than a sporty Nissan. Also, I wouldn't want to attract the wrong kind of attention driving down in a GTR.


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## mkim520

This is for new? At the price i would get a 991 Turbo or 997.2 Turbo if you have to have AWD


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## qcos

911 all day.. the GTR lacks the level of tech and luxury of the Porsche.

The GTR may be quicker in a line, but the 911 is way more fun.


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## dannyking

Agreed. The GTR is pure speed. And the Porsche is the handling king.


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## Londongirl

I was given the loan of a 911 for the weekend recently, and ended up spending hours on the Sunday trying to polish out a door edge chip before returning the vehicle the next day. Didn’t enjoy the stress frankly, so only worth owning if you have a 24/7 blank cheque approach to maintenance.


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## LuxuryRevolution

Porche 911 all the way. Porche is an amazing brand and it's a huge symbol of a luxury lifestyle.


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## JaphyRyder

How can you even cross shop those two cars?

911: Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.


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## JDMLS430

I only have experience with the gtr. You are basically just paying for performance. It has cheap materials and the drive is meh. Just my opinion. Id probably opt for the 911


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## letgeo

The 911 would be my first choice without a doubt.


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## gward10

The 911 is so refined, and the 4S essential here in the east coast. Thats my choice all day long. 


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## mt_timepieces

911 S please.

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## dron_jones

911.... not even a question


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## kmboxees

Ive had both, 2017 GTR and 991.1 (and various 991's before)

Best all rounder is the 911, it does everything well if a little dull but to some that is a bonus. They blend in like any regular car.

GTR will wipe the floor in just about every aspect of performance but defintely doesnt have the build quality of Porsche. I loved the 2017 update look and it was a real thrill to drive, but not the same to live with daily as the 911, harder ride and more highly strung!

Either way you cannot go wrong, go with what you prefer they are both epic! 



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## mt_timepieces

It was pretty easy when I was younger, I would always choose GTR, now that I got a bit older, I'm lean ok ng towards Porsche.

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## francorx

I have to go 911 without a doubt. Cant beat the timelessness of this car. It's the full package. I have a 911 and absolutely love it.

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## JuanPablo046

So which car did the thread creator buy?


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## dealer-1

With no doubt, Iconic 911 any day , test drive them, you will see


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## Rbird7282

911 all day every day. Timeless lines. 911 with the PDK transmission is absolute heaven.


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## paulhotte

From personal experience, I will recommend the 911....Unless of course proven otherwise by any that has driven the GTR


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## Ross13

It depends; they are two different experiences. The 911 with a manual transmission is a pure driver's car. The GTR is a play station inspired Japanese muscle car. I'm a boy racer wanna be with a Honda S2000 and Subaru WRX STI and while I'm personally drawn to the GTR on many levels, I'm also a purist and would probably go with the 911 with a manual gearbox.


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## drcab

Porsche 911


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## ugawino

Porsche

No question


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## jkpa

The 911 has been my dream car since I was about 10 years old so that's it for me. I'll never own one, but maybe that's OK. We're not getting everything we want in life


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## DaleEArnold

PORSCHE


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## jamesmartin11

Definitely the legendary 911 high performance rear-engined sports car.......


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## jkpa

I already posted that it's the 911 all day etc but my buddy has a GTR and it's..... drool worthy. Hard to make a wrong choice.


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## TMats

Never driven a GT-R, although my brother owned a 380Z roadster; it was certainly fun to drive. We have owned a 997.1 4S with manual gearbox for almost 2 years now. I’m still blown away by it.


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## ElliotH11

The GT-R is fun to drive in a straight line. But the 911 is so much more refined, and timeless. I’d choose the 911 11 times out of 10.


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## jtf8751

Ultimate driving machine is the 911, but wanna go fast and most the hell out of it to go even faster, the GT-R.


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## Watchguy08

Two different cars if you want luxury porsche, but if you want a crazy fast street legal track car GTR.


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## CallMeJarob

For that price point both are completely overrated. 911 is definitely much more of a drivers car - GTR is just a really fast altima IMO. I would personally look at F-type R or AMG GT


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## nomking77

There is no single reason to compare the Porsche 911 to the Nissan.


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## SuperOrbital

CallMeJarob said:


> For that price point both are completely overrated. 911 is definitely much more of a drivers car - GTR is just a really fast altima IMO. I would personally look at F-type R or AMG GT


The F-Type R isn't really a sports car though and I'd struggle to call it a GT car. Of those four, only the AMG GT is a sports car per se.


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## hobefabu

Porsche Panamera Turbo S


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## zcat1958

ElliotH11 said:


> The GT-R is fun to drive in a straight line. But the 911 is so much more refined, and timeless. I'd choose the 911 11 times out of 10.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


911 is to rolex submariner as GT-R is to Tudor.


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## slickman

Porsche. Driven a couple of GTRs before and although fast, something about that Porsche gives it that luxury feeling. 


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## jz1094

I worked at a nissan dealership in college. the Porsche is more of a status symbol, but I think the GTR is a better car, and less common


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## wristplug

Had a GTR back in 2012. It was a rocket, but the platform is very outdated now. Many sports cars can go low 3s 0-60 these days, which was rare a decade ago.


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## nicholascanada

Porsche hands down.


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## Kgriffin18

P car no doubt.


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## zygomatic21

I've driven both on a track. The GTR is mighty and a technological marvel. You can go scortchingly fast in one. 

To me, the C4S was a more involving drive and had a better 'feel' as a driver. Plus, I liked the cabin better. 

You won't go wrong with either, and never forget: they're just cars - if you don't like them, you can sell them on.


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## byunts

Porsche, no question.


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## bjlev

It really depends on what your preferences are... from a stylistic and driving experience standpoint. 

I have been lucky enough to own both and though I prefer the Porsche for the look and feel, the GTR has its on rewarding experience that unique most cars. Funny how when the GTR came out many thought it was so digital/video game like..now it feels much more raw than so many new cars.


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## forsakenfury

Porsche 911 4s....it's imo just the better car.


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## Adam2011

911 every day. So much class and refinement


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## LMNT LUXE

I agree with Jz's comment. Gtr you dont see much and when you do it stands out. I live in Scottsdale AZ and Porsche's are everywhere. Still nice though.


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## pfern10

Grew up loving watching Paul Walker driving Nissan GTRs. Therefore staying true to my old love Nissan GTR it will be for me. 


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## SolarPower

Since the OP's post we are already advanced two 911 generation (991.2 and 992) and still with pretty much same GTR...
I love GTRs, but I am on 4th 911 and no GTRs in my garage..


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## Atom_99

Most reviewers would lean towards 911 as an everyday driver


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## Fredette

The GTR used to be cool because it was so quick in a straight line. Now pretty much everyone can go fast in a straight line and a 911, among many other sports cars, can do so much more. Get a 911

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## ADAMSWATCHCOLLECTION

Porsche all day 


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## mikemark

No debate here. Porsche.


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## cowboyjack

Yup. 911. All day. Every day.


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## andycoph

This is an old and long thread, wish it had a POLL.
I'm curious what did the OP chose though..


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## TheWalrus

andycoph said:


> This is an old and long thread, wish it had a POLL.
> I'm curious what did the OP chose though..


Maybe I'm being cynical - but I'm going to guess the 2008 Toyota Corolla his parents gifted him when he went off to College.


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## andycoph

TheWalrus said:


> Maybe I'm being cynical - but I'm going to guess the 2008 Toyota Corolla his parents gifted him when he went off to College.


That's a classic. lol.


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## jermyzy

My dad bought a new 2002 911 Carrera 4S when I left the house for university. He loved that car and kept it til 2016, when he sold the car to get a bigger car, as he had to babysit my brother's kids. He still regrets selling the car.


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## G1Ninja

Personally I would say 911. But then I saw a story about the Nissan barely selling 300 cars last year. Then I saw Naomi Osaka post her special edition version with a red trim. And I thought maybe a GTR could be a good car to own. It is one of the best Japanese sportscars ever made. Not my favorite though. That would go to the old Toyota in You Only Live Twice. But perhaps if the upcoming Nissan Z isn't that good. Then the GTR would be a good car to own if you could get a good deal.


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## tmvle5m

Porsche 911


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## brianinCA

911 all day


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## kritameth

I grew up around the JDM car scene, so I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the GTR. I wouldn't pick the 911 4S over the GTR, but a GT2/3 that'd be different conversation. Of course, then it'd no longer be an AWD comparison.


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## SolarPower

Want AWD? - You can go with Turbo as I did


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## jkmetz

SolarPower said:


> Want AWD? - You can go with Turbo as I did


Love that. 911 is the clear answer!

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## MiamiAngler

I have owned 3 911’s loved them all. Maintenance is expensive it mine were very reliable. My first was a 993, worth more now than when I bought it.


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## kritameth

SolarPower said:


> Want AWD? - You can go with Turbo as I did


Now that's a view! Beautiful shot.


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## 360turbo

Go for the 911, it will hold its value better and it’s an Overall better vehicle


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## kritameth

MiamiAngler said:


> I have owned 3 911's loved them all. Maintenance is expensive it mine were very reliable. My first was a 993, worth more now than when I bought it.


I bet! On a side note, the 993 GT2 is my childhood poster car, and to this day still is my favorite 911.


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## MiamiAngler

Kritameth,  I liked the 993 better than my 996. But my 997 S cabriolet was my favorite, more hp than the 993 and the AC could handle 100+ degree days in SC.


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## SolarPower

kritameth said:


> Now that's a view! Beautiful shot.


Thanks. Glad you liked the shot. This TTS is easy to photoshoot  









I also like my GT Silver GTS, now gone, but not forgotten.









Had couple more 911s. So, yes, it is a 911 for me.


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## drlagares

GTR!!


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## kritameth

MiamiAngler said:


> liked the 993 better than my 996. But my 997 S cabriolet was my favorite, more hp than the 993 and the AC could handle 100+ degree days in SC.


I know all too well the value of good AC! 😅 My old LS-swapped 240sx did not have AC and it felt like driving around a microwave on hot summer days.











SolarPower said:


> Thanks. Glad you liked the shot. This TTS is easy to photoshoot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also like my GT Silver GTS, now gone, but not forgotten.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had couple more 911s. So, yes, it is a 911 for me.


With the talents you're working with you can't really have any bad shots, can you. Beautiful shots and equally beautiful 911s!


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## Seddyspaghetti

911 because i would find it more fun


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## WatchBill

911 will be better balanced, lighter, corners harder, etc. Much more racing experience applied back into their street cars at Porsche.


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## WaleedE

Porsche 911 hands down


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## PCCM

I hope the OP found something since bringing it up in 2016...


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## Oleg1987

911 because of it’s reliability. You can do launch starts as many times as you want, unlike with GTR


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## Abgul

911. I feel the GTR ages quick quickly and nowhere near as well as the 911.


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## Jim Addy

Love the Nissan for me. 

But a real car guy would do a Porsche. 

Jim


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## jkim23

walltz said:


> Never driven both before, i'm a bimmer lover but based on my personal opinion i would say since both are AWD the next is comfort and the 911 it's my pick.
> Not only is it more comfortable it is also better to look at.


I would highly recommend that you drive both. You'll have your answer almost immediately.


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## jkim23

To those that recommend the GT4, it's a bit harsh for the street. It's perfect for the track, but not so great around town. The Cayman GTS would be the one to get for the street.


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## jkim23

ThomG said:


> lol! Or...he could just be a car guy, did that ever occur to you?


The C63 is from the last great era of performance cars where everything was naturally aspirated, large displacement, with great sounding exhausts and hydraulic power steering.

Now, everything is turbocharged or hybridized (NSX) with electric power steering and small displacements with crappy sounding exhausts. C63 is a classic, and it also has that stealth factor that the GT-R and Porsche lack. If you want to be noticed, then by all means get one of the other two cars. But C63/M3/RS5 type cars are great, great cars.



001 said:


> And what car guy lets go the last Normally Aspirated V8 having about 500 BHP?
> 
> I consider myself to be a car guy too, and the 911, and especially the GTR are to me, the ultimate 12 year old I know all about cars guy typical wallpaper for whom Paul Walker was the ultimate racer.
> 
> And given a choice, I'd take the C63* over any supercar all day. Heck, my ultimate car is a Jetta/Octavia with about 600BHP.
> 
> Fast AND practical AND inconspicuous.
> 
> *C63 here means 63, which was derived from a 6.3 L engine. The current Turbo 4.0 L is a disgrace to the name, and should be called a C40T.


Agree.


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## jkim23

DiscoZ said:


> GTR is a boy racer unemotional machine with a ...... sounding ubiquitous turbo V6. Get the 911. I went a step further and got a Shelby GT350 which here in Canada is expensive.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


You analysis of the GTR is your opinion. And all 911's have six cylinder engines, and many of them are turbocharged just like the GTR.

The GT350 is a better choice as it has a NA V8.


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## WatchHobby

Not sure if this matters (it did to me at one time) but my buddy had a GTR (I have/had Porsche, BMW, Corvette) and my ex-wife never understood why we all liked that "Nissan." In other words, the brand Nissan may not be very impressive to some people if that has any value to you.


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## Dingo2017

Get the 911


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## JesseBertone

911 4s for sure. Gtr is cool but it cant touch the quality of a Porsche. 

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## KKuo

I guess it depends on the crowd you are trying to get attention from and why. Personally I am drawn towards the 911.


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## Falling Up

I live on Long Island which my friend from that wild frontier west of the Hudson called a "24/7 car show". I will just mention that I see GT3Rs and other exotics on a pretty regular basis. Every GT3R I've seen was being driven exactly the speed limit, as clocked by my GPS. I haven't polled the drivers but I'm going out on a limb and guess threats of insurance cancellation, if one more ticket is issued, as the main incentive for such careful motoring. I think GTRs are even more of a target for cops because there is the illegal street racer vibe.

I think your chances of whining your way out of a ticket are better behind the wheel of something boring and conservative, like the Audi S8. If you want to go fast, get a crotch rocket. Cops won't even bother chasing you on a Ducati Panigale V4.


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## Mazzanti

A friend of mine used to own a 2010 GTR Black Edition. I'm not really into japanese cars but this one is incredible : 4 real confortable seats, great finishes, electronics is way less complicated than what germans do and the car is really fast. Something I personally love is that the paddle shifters do not move with the steering wheel (same configuration as in most italian cars). Only little thing you could want to change is the exhaust as the original one is a bit quiet. There are countless options to solve that, including a modification on the original exhaust by removing some parts (I don't remember the exact name).

I never tried a 911, but the same friend did (he owns a 991 GT2 RS). He would have never exchanged the GTR for a Carrera, especially in terms of performances. However, the Porsche is better looking in my opinion. I guess the 992 has similar performances as the GTR and probably a superior quality, but do not count on using the rear seats for more than a sports bag.


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## cholewski

911 all day long


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## tman916

I've had a 911.1 GT3 and a 2014 and 2009 GTR. 911 GT3 easily. Not much insight to give on vs a 4S tho...


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## Benjaz4

I rented a GTR off Turo. the interior is a typical nissan. nothing fancy. can get a used one pretty fairly priced. if you want luxury, 4s if speed, GTR


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## Jonathan T

911!


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## Dusty78

In 2022 good luck trying to find a new 911 or any other Porsche for that matter. You might have more luck walking into a Rolex AP and snagging a Daytona


----------



## Bullydog

911 all the way. GTR is a great car and fun to drive, but a Porsche is classically nicer and will hold a better value in the end.


----------



## Andoy

Hands down, it's a Nissan GTR for me!


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## FuzeDude

Whichever one has 3 pedals.......


----------



## Dusty78

Porsche 100%. Godzilla is fast and fun but it’s not very refined. A 911 can truly be a great everyday car.


----------



## nosamk

a porsche or a nissan??? 

911 all day everyday


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## poweredbyjae

Another vote for the 911


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## taylorcummings97

Got to be the 911. Elegant 


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## taylorcummings97

Like comparing fillet steak with a rustlers burger 


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## GrouchoM

taylorcummings97 said:


> Like comparing fillet steak with a rustlers burger
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Unfortunately, I'm a vegetarian... I've got neither. 

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect


----------



## taylorcummings97

GrouchoM said:


> Unfortunately, I'm a vegetarian... I've got neither.
> 
> Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect


Lol I tried to go vegan after watching the netflix doc… lasted 2 days 


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## bwh21335

911


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## TimeCapsoul

Having owned a GTR, maybe it’s because I’m older now, but I would go with the 911. Actually in the market looking for one right mow


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## Morlock

AMG GT


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## Benjaz4

i have never driven the 911, but i rented a GTR out in california. The GTR is super fast and fun. In the end, it is only a Nissan. If you want fast, fun and luxury go the 911.


----------



## Drmklr

I’ve driven many Porsche models over the years, on and off the track. Took this one to an event yesterday at Porsche Jacksonville and it reminded how much fun they are to drive. I’ve never driven the GT-R, though love the look of them and the power they can make. If you want near perfection from a looks, luxury and driving experience perspective, the 911 all day.


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## AS Maaz

owned a 2010 911 4s and loved it. GTR if you want to beat cars on the highway.


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## Xolotl

Driven both during Xtreme Xperience - 911 is so much fun. Love porsches.


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## OotOot

Porsche 911. Nothing wrong with the GTR but the Porsche is just a better overall package


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## Atom3S

Morlock said:


> AMG GT


You’re missing an R


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## Atom3S




----------



## cipollawatchco

As people mentioned, I'd recommend the Cayman GT4. Or go up if possible and get a 911 Turbo S (GT2RS or GT3RS also are incredible optiona).


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