# Most interesting movements in inexpensive skeleton watches?



## bgk

I posted the following in the Public Forum, and it was suggested that I re-post it in this forum:

My watch budget is modest. I've recently become interested in purchasing a relatively inexpensive skeleton watch (roughly under $200 usd), just as a "fun watch", conversation piece, etc. that I would wear infrequently. (I already have the pre-requisite dive watch, dress watch, sports watch, beater watch, etc.)

In retail stores in my area, I've had the opportunity to handle watches and see the movements operating on inexpensive skeletons with the brand names Akribos, Sturhling, Fossil and Kenneth Cole. These watches have list prices of roughly $150 or more, but are generally available at discount prices around $80. From reading posts here on Watchuseek, I believe that the movements in these watches are Hangzhou 9xxx series?

On the internet, I have seen pictures and read specs/reviews for the Stauer 1779 skeleton watch ($100 on Stauer website) and the Sea-Gull M182SK skeleton watch ($185 on Sea-Gull website). I don't know which movement the Stauer uses. The Sea-Gull uses Sea-Gull's in-house ST-16 movement. 

Sea-Gull watches in general have been favorably reviewed on Watchuseek, and in particular the Sea-Gull M182SK skeleton watch that I am considering has been favorably reviewed.

My problem is that I can only buy the Sea-Gull sight-unseen and only at Sea-Gull website retail price, and the Sea-Gull is more than twice the price of most of the other skeleton watches that I'm considering that I can buy locally at significant discount off retail, and is almost twice the price of the Stauer.

For those of you with experience with multiple skeleton watches, is the Sea-Gull movement much more interesting to watch in motion? Is the Sea-Gull movement, case, fit and finish, etc. worth roughly double the prices of the other watches that I'm considering? 

Do you have any other opinions, or suggestions for other inexpensive skeleton watches that I'm unaware of? 

Thank you for your responses in advance.


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## Chascomm

First of all I'll warn you off the Stauer.

The movement is the Chinese Standard movement. It's an excellent design, but sadly amongst most of the several factories producing skeleton versions, the build quality is very poor. The plate tolerances are amongst the worst in the industry. And unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with the different cuts to know whether this is from one of the good factories or one of the bad ones.

Besides, how can you take seriously a spiel like this?



> A trip to an antique book store led us to find one of the earliest designs of the sought after skeleton timepiece. With a 227-year-old design, Stauer has brought back the past in the intriguing old world geometry of the Stauer 1779 Skeleton. See right through to the precision parts and hand assembled movement and into the heart of the unique timepiece... ...Inspired by a rare museum piece dating to 1779, we engineered this classic with $31,000,000 worth of precise Swiss built machinery to create the intricate gears and levers. So the historians are thrilled with the authenticity and the demanding engineers are quite impressed with the technical performance... ...the gold-fused mainspring, escapement, balance wheel...
> 
> ...We took the timepiece to George Thomas, a noted historian and watch restorer for major museums, and he dissected the 110 parts of the vintage movement. He gave the "1779" top reviews. "It is possible to build it better than the original, and your new skeleton requires so little maintenance." When we shared the price with him, George was stunned. He said that no other luxury skeleton can be had for under $1000...;


Sorry, I've veered off-topic a bit but I just had to share yet another Stauer literary gem. :-d


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## toholio

Chascomm said:


> First of all I'll warn you off the Stauer. Besides, how can you take seriously a spiel like this?
> 
> ...
> 
> Sorry, I've veered off-topic a bit but I just had to share yet another Stauer literary gem. :-d


I nearly sprayed hot tea onto my screen just now. That is comedy gold.


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## Reno

bgk said:


> Do you have any other opinions, or suggestions for other inexpensive skeleton watches that I'm unaware of?
> 
> Thank you for your responses in advance.


I own two skeletons :

I recently bought this *EYKI* "Ventura" homage.


















https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=375247

Excellent fit & finish :-! you can have this one for less than $100 on the bay.

And this *Wagner* (I bought it 3 years ago, but it can't be found anywhere now)



























https://www.watchuseek.com/showpost.php?p=2468982&postcount=1


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## rmelle

And I empied my cup of coffee on my screen!!!
THIS IS WAY TOO HYLARIOUS!!!
I have to remenber this one!!!

nice day!
RJ van Melle.


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## Dapper

My skeleton was from the 'Samson Watch Co'. Can't remember the exact price but it was well under $150 
I think the movement is a variant on the Sea-Gull 3600, the one with the long regulator arm.
I like the look of this one, especially the big blued 'necktie' hands that show up well against the movement details. 
Finish & decoration is good too and it has a nice quality look :-!


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## nderwater

I really, really like the engraving on that one Alan. Nice find!

(edit to add 
In reference to the original post, I found a variation of this watch on Ebay a while back for $50: 
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=267215. 
The casework was fantastic and the Sea-Gull ST-17 is a little jewel of a movement. I've not had any issues with it.


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## bgk

Thank you for your responses, particularly to Chasecomm for the excellent humor and to nderwater for the link to another post with an extensive review of the Sea-Gull skeleton watch.

So, the Stauer is definitely out of the running thanks to Chasecomm, and I've got new choices to consider thanks to the rest of you. (I'm also considering NakedWatch products). Right now, the Sea-Gull is my preference, but it costs the most.

My principal problem remains that I don't have any experience actually viewing most of these skeleton watches in operation. The local Tourneau store only carries one skeleton and it's an Oris Artelier at over $2000. None of the other "mall" stores in my area carry skeleton watches, except Wal-Mart with an unappealing (to me) Armitron. 

Are the inexpensive skeleton watch movements more or less the same in operation, or are there significant differences?


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## Dapper

nderwater said:


> I really, really like the engraving on that one Alan. Nice find!


Thanks nderwater :-! It was the engraving that did it for me |>


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## vinylgreek

Reno, the current equivalent to the Wagner from what I can tell is being branded Winner. It even includes the wing motif.


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## rich5665

Fuyate, Goer, Jaragar and Winner are basically the same watches. They share the same standard movement and quite often a similar dial design. The only exception that I've seen has been the Goer Manual Wind watch. But I'm sure that if you looked hard enough, some other ebay only "mushroom" brand makes a skeleton using the the same housing. For under $20 they're fun to buy, but I don't really expect them to last long. I've attached a couple shots of the Goer in gold plate, I've seen it in silver as well. They can be found all over ebay.


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## Martin_B

I just remembered I also have a standard skeleton


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## aron

Martin_B said:


> I just remembered I also have a standard skeleton


That skeleton cut looks quite different than the typical Chinese skeleton. I like it! Any other watches with this movement?


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## Rxq

aron said:


> That skeleton cut looks quite different than the typical Chinese skeleton. I like it! Any other watches with this movement?


Lots, do a search. It is one of the chepaest skeleton movemetns available. They can usually be had for $10.


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## rich5665

A closer look at the Goer Gold Skeleton.


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## SouthBend

They look so much more different, unique, when they're hand made.


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## Tictocdoc

Most skeletons out there are using the chinese movement that was mentioned before. I'm posting a picture of my watch. It has the exact same movment all the other skeletons at the mall have, seems like brands from kenneth cole all the way to "Paris hilton":-x! use it. 

The Kenneth cole I have seems pretty good, It keeps reasonably good time. The power reserve lasts between 30 and 40 hours. I have yet to scratch the crystal, Im not going to tell you its Sapphire but Ive worn it just as long as another watch I have that does have a sappire crystal and yet has many tiny swirleys auuuugggggggggggghhhhhhhhhho| .
The movement lets you "hack" and you can also hand wind.
The only thing I dont like about this particular movement is 
1) it seems "cheaply decorated" even from a distance. (its a matter of personal taste but I would have preffered something more plain, less pardon the expression "BLINGY" its shiny and engraved)
2) Already stated its a very comon movement almost all skeletons at the mall use it..and ill say it again "PARIS HILTON".....................:-s

This is a watch you can enjoy, there is alot to look at. and the plus side to it being a very comon movement means you have alot of variety when it comes to choosing a case.


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## RON in PA

It's a shame that you don't like the Walmart available Armitrons as they use the ST-16 movement. I have seen them for sale for under $50 at times. Also the Armitrons will say TY2807SV on the case back. This is the same as the ST-16.


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## bgk

Thank you again for your responses.

I chose to purchase the Sea-Gull M182SK.

I received it last week, and am posting with my initial thoughts.

First, my correspondence with Kevin Ma, the Sea-Gull USA representative has been excellent. He responded to my email inquiry very quickly, provided a modest discount for the product (10% for Watchuseek forum members) shipped the watch and sent emails confirming order processing and shipping the same day.

The watch arrived within three days, well packed. It was running when I unpacked it; I assume due to movement of the rotor during shipping.

All aspects of the watch look fine (materials, fit and finish, etc.) and are commensurate with the price. Portions of the movement visible through front and back crystals are nicely polished. The visible "operation" of the skeleton movement is OK, not as dramatic as I had hoped for, but "it is what it is". As noted by people who posted in this thread, it is my understanding that the same movement is used in a number of other inexpensive skeleton watches, such as Fossil, Armitron, etc.

Frankly, to my newbie watch-novice eye, I see very little difference between the fit and finish and operation of the Fossil skeleton watch that is available at local shopping malls for $80 and the Sea-Gull that I bought for more than double that amount. But, it is also my understanding from posts on Watchuseek that the Sea-Gull movements in Sea-Gull brand watches have higher levels of quality control, fitment, finishing, etc. than the movements that they sell to others.

Anyway, I've scratched my itch to have a skeleton watch, for under $200, and I'm generally happy with the decision. (This will save me from thinking that I need to buy a +$2000 Oris Artelier skeleton watch).

The Sea-Gull watch is running about +30 seconds per day. Is this within the normal expected range for the Sea-Gull ST-16 movement?

As a side note, my wife and I went to a cocktail/dinner party this weekend, and one of the other wives noticed the Sea-Gull watch, and it was the topic of conversation for a few minutes. It is rare for me to receive comments about any of my other watches (modest collection of "affordables") so this was a pleasant surprise.


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## rich5665

bgk said:


> Thank you again for your responses.
> 
> I chose to purchase the Sea-Gull M182SK.
> 
> I received it last week, and am posting with my initial thoughts.
> 
> First, my correspondence with Kevin Ma, the Sea-Gull USA representative has been excellent. He responded to my email inquiry very quickly, provided a modest discount for the product (10% for Watchuseek forum members) shipped the watch and sent emails confirming order processing and shipping the same day.
> 
> The watch arrived within three days, well packed. It was running when I unpacked it; I assume due to movement of the rotor during shipping.
> 
> All aspects of the watch look fine (materials, fit and finish, etc.) and are commensurate with the price. Portions of the movement visible through front and back crystals are nicely polished. The visible "operation" of the skeleton movement is OK, not as dramatic as I had hoped for, but "it is what it is". As noted by people who posted in this thread, it is my understanding that the same movement is used in a number of other inexpensive skeleton watches, such as Fossil, Armitron, etc.
> 
> Frankly, to my newbie watch-novice eye, I see very little difference between the fit and finish and operation of the Fossil skeleton watch that is available at local shopping malls for $80 and the Sea-Gull that I bought for more than double that amount. But, it is also my understanding from posts on Watchuseek that the Sea-Gull movements in Sea-Gull brand watches have higher levels of quality control, fitment, finishing, etc. than the movements that they sell to others.
> 
> Anyway, I've scratched my itch to have a skeleton watch, for under $200, and I'm generally happy with the decision. (This will save me from thinking that I need to buy a +$2000 Oris Artelier skeleton watch).
> 
> The Sea-Gull watch is running about +30 seconds per day. Is this within the normal expected range for the Sea-Gull ST-16 movement?
> 
> As a side note, my wife and I went to a cocktail/dinner party this weekend, and one of the other wives noticed the Sea-Gull watch, and it was the topic of conversation for a few minutes. It is rare for me to receive comments about any of my other watches (modest collection of "affordables") so this was a pleasant surprise.


Congrats on the purchase. I have considered the Sea-Gull in Gold. Can't wait to see some photos.|>


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## MoonPhase

rich5665 said:


> Fuyate, Goer, Jaragar and Winner are basically the same watches. They share the same standard movement and quite often a similar dial design. The only exception that I've seen has been the Goer Manual Wind watch. But I'm sure that if you looked hard enough, some other ebay only "mushroom" brand makes a skeleton using the the same housing. For under $20 they're fun to buy, but I don't really expect them to last long. I've attached a couple shots of the Goer in gold plate, I've seen it in silver as well. They can be found all over ebay.


Hi Rich5665,

Are those brands you have mentioned the same quality ? For price around 20 dollar, which brand is good in terms of movement and styling ?
And, are they worth the money you pay ?
I am buying my first mechanical watch, will appreciate your comments !
Thanks !!:thanks

Regards,
MoonPhase


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## rich5665

I can't really vouch for the quality yet, but so far I'm happy. My understanding is that these are a mass produced standard movement. I would equate them to the $20 watch found in Kmart, Walmart, and Target or any such store. That doesn't mean they are bad, just that they are not of the same quality as say a Parnis or an Alpha. Kind of like comparing an $80 watch to a $500 watch. Out of the 9 watches that I have bought so far, only one looked like it was rushed through quality control. The other thing I noticed is, you will see the same watch with different names. I think they all come from the same factory so that really is no surprise. thislink to the Chinese watch wiki explains the grades of the movements better than I can. There have been questions regarding what metals might be used in the manufacturing of the watches. The sellers indicate Stainless Steel. Not being a metallurgist I can't really say if that is true. If it is stainless Steel then it is most likely a lower grade. Most of the watches I have are plated. My best suggestion would be to buy one that interests you and form an opinion.


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## MoonPhase

Thank you very much ,Rich5665 ! It is helpful and that link is very good,which I 've visited before. It is interesting that you equate them to the $20 watch from Walmart, Kmart....etc, I was expecting them to be a bit better than those watches in the shops.
You are right, I 'll just buy one and see the quality . Would you please recommend some reliable seller which you can trust ?
Also, it will be nice if I can see your affordable Chinese collection and from our members here !!
Many thanks !!


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## rich5665

Here are a few of my watches. Still working on photographing the rest. and will edit this post as I add them.

Winner Skeleton









Winner Chronometer









Winner Aguaracer









Goer Gold Skelton


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## mmcb250

I have a LK Colouring skeleton watch with the exact movement. I ordered it from DealExtreme, $14.58 delivered. The only difference is that mine is more of a stainless/nickel finish but still attractive. Keeps good time, comparing it to readings off of my Casio Waveceptor atomic watch it seems to be within the +28 seconds a day range and I've had it running for three weeks now. By the way on the DealExtreme site it is shown as a Daybird crystals see-thru steel mechanical wrist watch. Is indeed a LK model #98001g. Thanks Mike


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## MoonPhase

Thank you for posting the pics, they are good looking !
Are they from same seller, Nice00watch ??

Regards.


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## rich5665

Most of my purchases have been fromeveryday.deal, if he doesn't have anything I like then I also browse a_ashop and watch-times. They all carry pretty much the same watches, but once in a while one will have something the others don't or have a watch listed a few dollars cheaper. I scored a Wilon Open Heart for $.01 with $9.99 shipping when every one else had the total cost up around $20.


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## Abbazz

I have a small Alpha Skeleton that I love a lot. Here are a few pictures:





































Cheers!

Abbazz


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## rich5665

Abbazz said:


> I have a small Alpha Skeleton that I love a lot. Here are a few pictures:
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That is a very beautiful watch :-!:-!:-! I've been looking at a similar one, I think you may have pushed me over the edge on my decision to buy one.


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## rcs914

I've bought a few watches from "Everyday deal" as well - one was one of the above manual wind Goers the other was the below Winner - which I think is much nicer for the same price. The rotor in mine doesn't turn, but it does hand-wind easily, and it has been quite accurate. It has a domed mineral crystal. I especially like how I can see the mainspring and the pallet fork. It isn't a decorated skeletonized movement, but I actually prefer this. The pics are grabbed from a current auction. For about $15 shipped, it's pretty great I think.



















Chris


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## MoonPhase

rich5665 said:


> Most of my purchases have been from
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> 
> Thank you so much for sharing ! Everyday.deal and a ashop has a lot of offers with low pricing.I haven't bought anything from them . BTW, that first pic of skeleton watch, do the two circles are just decoration ?


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## AChoice

wow - stunning - would easily pay 150-200 for that watch new!!


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## James Haury

Armitron is a good brand.


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## rich5665

MoonPhase said:


> Thank you so much for sharing ! Everyday.deal and a ashop has a lot of offers with low pricing.I haven't bought anything from them . BTW, that first pic of skeleton watch, do the two circles are just decoration ?


No I actually borrowed the photo from the watch listing, the discoloration is the watermark "stamp" of the watch seller.


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## south_aussie

Hi Alan,

I am new to the forum and a novice watch collector.

I really like this watch but am unsure where to buy it from. As a novice, I am unfamiliar with where these watches are often sold.

I would greatly appreciate your help if you can point to me where this watch was sold.

Thank you
South aussie


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## Dapper

south_aussie said:


> Hi Alan,
> 
> I am new to the forum and a novice watch collector.
> 
> I really like this watch but am unsure where to buy it from. As a novice, I am unfamiliar with where these watches are often sold.
> 
> I would greatly appreciate your help if you can point to me where this watch was sold.
> 
> Thank you
> South aussie


PM sent ;-)


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## south_aussie

Thank you for your prompt and helpful advice. 

Much appreciated.


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## Itamaraty

I bought this Eyki model last week. I have no idea of witch movement does it use!!! I bought it because it's diferent of anything in this price range (US$ 49,98 shipped)!!! Any information about it?
Regards,
Itamaraty


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## rich5665

Itamaraty said:


> I bought this Eyki model last week. I have no idea of witch movement does it use!!! I bought it because it's diferent of anything in this price range (US$ 49,98 shipped)!!! Any information about it?
> Regards,
> Itamaraty


I think I've seen it mentioned somewhere on the forum as a "J" or bar, not sure what the actual designation is though.


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## timeisofthessence

I know it's not a Chinese mechanical watch, but my favorite skelleton watch that I own is the Swatch Irony "Body & Soul" model. I think retail it's $150 or so, it can be purchased through WUS or ebay for around 100 - 120. I beleive it has a 2824 motor and looks really cool. I have owned it for about 7 months and not had an issue at all.

The watch is 36mm or 38mm and the steel bracelet is definitely on the lighter side but I enjoy the watch, and recommend it especially if you just want to look at the gears move and all, it is attractive.

I beleive someone is selling one on the WUS forum right now actually.


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## GuySie

Itamaraty said:


> I bought this Eyki model last week. I have no idea of witch movement does it use!!! I bought it because it's diferent of anything in this price range (US$ 49,98 shipped)!!! Any information about it?
> Regards,
> Itamaraty


I seem to remember some talk about this in threads about Corum Bridge homages (which use a similar movement layout). Try searching for that.


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## gemologist

I have the Sea-Gull M182SK for 2 years now, still running true, it was $120 a month before I bought it, I got it at $150, and now it's $185, I wouldn't sell mine for $185, so maybe the price is going up because it's a good watch. I have been amazed by the cool watches coing out of china recently, I just got myself a jaragar, It wasnt the same quality as a seagull by any means, but for a $19 watch, it so cool, I love it. If you have the money for a nice watch seagull is what I would do, they are lovely, simple and elegent, not like swiss watches, but hey, it aint bad. power reserve on that seagull is 18 hours, just FYI, I don't care what they say, and be careful not to overwind it, other than that it's perfect, genuine leather strap that is very very good quality, I would compare it to swiss straps, and it looks nice with a black or blue suit. Of course you could just get 4 or 5 goer or jaragar watches and throw them away as they break down, but for me, the nicest quality is the seagull, and it is the same movement as the staur btw, but that does not mean it's the same quality, it is very possible that the gov't sells the not-so-great movements to staur and keeps the best pieces to built their national brand. Word was that these were not even available for purchase in the US at one time, so I would go with that one.


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## James Haury

bgK, I recommend you look at the site DEAL EXTREME they have many skeleton watches and the prices are very reasonable I have two watches from their site and they work well enough.I recommend this sku--SKU 21428 .I have a similiar one but it came with white hands and face.Here is the SKU for the skeleton I have--SKU 21126 P.S Stauer creates a vaccum as does Steinhausen we had a lot of amusement making fun of their advertising(see lies).You can probably still find the thread.


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## Toolman12345

Reno said:


> I own two skeletons :
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> I recently bought this *EYKI* "Ventura" homage.
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> Excellent fit & finish :-! you can have this one for less than $100 on the bay.
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Oh wow, Reno, I really love that *EYKI. *But of course I can't find one online at the moment. *sigh* That is one of the most nicely decorated movements I've seen in an ultra-affordable watch.

Still waiting on my Tauchmeister T0146...


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## blurrycloud

Itamaraty said:


> I bought this Eyki model last week. I have no idea of witch movement does it use!!! I bought it because it's diferent of anything in this price range (US$ 49,98 shipped)!!! Any information about it?
> Regards,
> Itamaraty


pts resources movement
chinese


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## flitz40

I've had this stauer watch for years. That's news to me. The movement is actually accurate and reliable. Have a good day


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## Soumodip Das

*Re: somebody help me!!!!want to buy a skeleton watch within $300......*

*Planning to buy a vintage skeleton watch....within a price tag of 300$*

Hi ,

I am from india and am planning to buy a vintage skeleton watch....but cant decide which one would last for a long time...as i am looking for one that looks good(has a sub-dial) and lasts for a long time...
i was planning to buy an invicta 12403 vintage skeleton but i got mixed reviews...so kinda confused...could somebody please help me......I am a newbie bdw...

Thank You,
Soumodip Das​


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## Chascomm

*Re: somebody help me!!!!want to buy a skeleton watch within $300......*



Soumodip Das said:


> *Planning to buy a vintage skeleton watch....within a price tag of 300$*
> 
> Hi ,
> 
> I am from india and am planning to buy a vintage skeleton watch....but cant decide which one would last for a long time...as i am looking for one that looks good(has a sub-dial) and lasts for a long time...
> i was planning to buy an invicta 12403 vintage skeleton but i got mixed reviews...so kinda confused...could somebody please help me......I am a newbie bdw...
> 
> Thank You,
> Soumodip Das​


You won't find any 'vintage skeletons' on this forum. The Invicta that you mentioned has a modern skeleton movement. There's nothing vintage in it.

If you've been considering Invicta then I would suggest looking also as Stuhrling Original who usually have a broad selection of Chinese skeleton watches, usually Hangzhou or Liaocheng movements which are generally quite dependable.

Elsewhere on this thread you will see pictures of several variants of the 'Tongji' or Chinese Standard' skeleton, both hand-winding and automatic versions. Steer clear of anything that looks like that and you should be safe.


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## hallo

*Re: somebody help me!!!!want to buy a skeleton watch within $300......*

Hi,

I can highly recommend Beijjing Watch. They make various skelletonized versions of their well respected SB 18 Movement. They realy minimized the unused material in the various bridges. It is a very transparent movement. They have them in contemporary (40 mm) and vintage cases (38mm). If you want some pictures please send a PN. Robert


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