# Why so much hate on Bremont watches



## FSU92grad

Just curious....I own and have owned many different brands of watches including Rolex, Omega, Zenith Seiko etc....but I’ve been in some of the “other” forums and they seem to hate on Bremont watches....why is that ? They are great pieces in my mind and look great....excellent quality and finish, IMHO and great selection of minimalist pieces which I crave ....

Thoughts ? 


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## Michael Day

No more than any other brand. Wait until you've been around a while. There's hate for every model of every brand. Just ignore it and go with the good stuff. 


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## FSU92grad

Michael Day said:


> No more than any other brand. Wait until you've been around a while. There's hate for every model of every brand. Just ignore it and go with the good stuff.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I guess you're right....I'm on other forums too and see the same thing... but I guess my question is how is the quality of Bremont movements, finish etc compared to Rolex or Omega ? I know everything is subjective but was curious as this is my first Bremont purchase....

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## ItsDave

I saw quite a bit of hate before I picked up my Bremont but I still went ahead with it and... screw the doubters! They make beautiful watches with a great quality. They had a bit of a bad PR issue with an incorrect statement which they rectified almost immediately. Bremonts tend to use ETA movements which have been customised and improvement, so they take something tried and tested and make it much much better, which I find nothing wrong with. They will start venturing out into in house movements soon. At the movement you can’t really compare Rolex and Omega with Bremont because they’re completely different brands, with many years of history and achievements whereas Bremont is just starting. You should get a Bremont because you want a Bremont imo. They are making a good start, they’ve got some impressive ambassadors and feats already under their name.


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## Carl.1

I can not really say i agree there is any 'hate' on Bremont. People comment on them and compare them to older more established brands using superior ( a whole other discussion!) movements. Do they criticise out of ignorance? I do not know. Bremont though have definately brought a new flavour to the watch world with their designs, something that a whole host of other newcomers have failed to do. So maybe others are jealous of their success.


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## FSU92grad

Carl.1 said:


> I can not really say i agree there is any 'hate' on Bremont. People comment on them and compare them to older more established brands using superior ( a whole other discussion!) movements. Do they criticise out of ignorance? I do not know. Bremont though have definately brought a new flavour to the watch world with their designs, something that a whole host of other newcomers have failed to do. So maybe others are jealous of their success.


Certainly one of the better UK watch brands....I just really like the aesthetics of the brand and their aesthetics....I've owned many brands but looking for something different but minimal....Too many pieces out there have too much going on on the dial and I just like simple pieces....Bremont fits the bill for me....Don't get me wrong I own both a relax and then I'm a go watch and they are all good watches in their own right but every now and then you want to venture off and try something a little bit more "off the cuff....Blancpain is another watch company I've been "eye-ballin'" and yes, even Breitling.....They finally have some pieces that don't have a Lotta crap going on on the dials that look somewhat wearable.....good stuff!

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## Vig2000

A lot of people tend to rag on Bremont for a few different reasons IMO: First up is their origin story, which I won't go into since it can easily be found with a quick Google search. Many question their story's authenticity, but regardless of how true it is or isn't, I've heard others comment on how cheesy it is. Secondly, they made a big blunder a few years back when they falsely claimed that they developed their own in-house movement. Turns out they didn't and they were called out on it, and I remember how huge of a controversy it was at the time and how a ton of people went up in arms. As a result of all the backlash, they issued a sort of half-apology video. Finally, many feel that the retail prices of their watches are too inflated and exorbitant. I personally would never buy a Bremont brand new since this is definitely a brand to buy pre-owned if you're ever so inclined to purchase one.

I personally think they make half-decent watch, even though their prices are unjustified IMO. I previously owned several Bremonts at one point and now I own none and don't plan on purchasing any in the future. I fell into being a Bremont fanboy and then I gradually began to view them as a fad, so their watches no longer became appealing to me. Not to mention that I think their marketing is off-putting.

Just my opinion and don't let that dissuade you. The usual cliche is offered here: Buy what you like. However, at the same time, it never hurts to be a smart and conscientious watch collector and consumer for that matter. Again, never buy a Bremont brand new (think resale here, it won't be pretty trying to sell after buying brand new).


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## lvt

Personally I like some of their watches, but the prices are out of my ranges.


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## 1165dvd

Speaking from the perspective of someone who has actually owned an MBII, I'll say I like their watches very much. They are just cool. They are very well built. They have outstanding customer service (they often replace case parts when you send your watch in for service). I guess you have to ask yourself what original design language is worth to you. No brand has a case shaped and assembled like Bremont's. It's what attracted me in the first place. 

Beyond design, there are also some solid features, like the faraday cage in some of their watches. This protects the watch from magnetic fields. It's a relatively common feature, though, one that can be found in watches like Sinn and Damasko at a fraction of the price. They also developed and patented a shock absorption system that is in a few of their watches. That is a technology that takes time to create, and it comes at a R&D cost that has to be passed on to the consumer. The roto-click internal bezel in some of their watches is very well engineered. They have a contract with Boeing to use the company's patented steel in their Boeing line of watches. Finally, Bremont hardens most of their cases (probably not the precious metal variety). But hardening is available on many other brands as well, so while it's a nice feature, it's not solely theirs to own. I also believe that Bremont uses surface hardening, similar to Sinn, whereas Damasko hardens the entire case. Bremont's are susceptible to dings if you strike them hard enough.

Vig2000 did a great job of outlining why there are haters. I really don't have much to add there. I will say this though. The use of ETA movements does not justify the price they are asking at retail for their most of their line. However, Ulysse Nardin, IWC, and a couple other big boys use the same movements (or Sellita ) and upgrade them to varying degrees. Bremont has positioned itself as a lifestyle brand. They don't pay for brand ambassadors, but they do spend a lot of money on affiliating their brand with charities, the military, and big events, and in other traditional ways. Nothing bad there. Rolex spends a ridiculous amount to advertise. It just adds cost to the watch. Lesser known brands to people outside of the WUS world do way less advertising, and most likely pass that savings on to the consumer. They also create gimmicky theme watches that are priced outlandishly, but no-one else is putting a piece of fabric from the Wright Brother's plane into the rotor of their watch. 

My advice to anyone: buy used. Be patient. Set an alert on watchrecon for the model you'd like to buy and wait it out. It will eventually come up. If you buy new, you better be buying to keep, because you are going to get killed on resale. If you have to buy new, get 30-35% off from your AD or walk away. I know they can swing the steep reduction because many were offering said discount over the holiday sales season. I bought my year old MBII for about $2000 in August. To put that in perspective, that's $3000 off retail for a barely broken-in watch. When I sold it, I was lucky to only loose about $100. Their watches lose 50% of value very quickly. Currently, I'm holding out for a white dial MBII. If one comes up, I'm going to buy with hopes to make it part of my permanent collection. So you can tell that I'm not a hater.


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## GoBuffs11

1165dvd said:


> Speaking from the perspective of someone who has actually owned an MBII, I'll say I like their watches very much. They are just cool. They are very well built. They have outstanding customer service (they often replace case parts when you send your watch in for service). I guess you have to ask yourself what original design language is worth to you. No brand has a case shaped and assembled like Bremont's. It's what attracted me in the first place.
> 
> Beyond design, there are also some solid features, like the faraday cage in some of their watches. This protects the watch from magnetic fields. It's a relatively common feature, though, one that can be found in watches like Sinn and Damasko at a fraction of the price. They also developed and patented a shock absorption system that is in a few of their watches. That is a technology that takes time to create, and it comes at a R&D cost that has to be passed on to the consumer. The roto-click internal bezel in some of their watches is very well engineered. They have a contract with Boeing to use the company's patented steel in their Boeing line of watches. Finally, Bremont hardens most of their cases (probably not the precious metal variety). But hardening is available on many other brands as well, so while it's a nice feature, it's not solely theirs to own. I also believe that Bremont uses surface hardening, similar to Sinn, whereas Damasko hardens the entire case. Bremont's are susceptible to dings if you strike them hard enough.
> 
> Vig2000 did a great job of outlining why there are haters. I really don't have much to add there. I will say this though. The use of ETA movements does not justify the price they are asking at retail for their most of their line. However, Ulysse Nardin, IWC, and a couple other big boys use the same movements (or Sellita ) and upgrade them to varying degrees. Bremont has positioned itself as a lifestyle brand. They don't pay for brand ambassadors, but they do spend a lot of money on affiliating their brand with charities, the military, and big events, and in other traditional ways. Nothing bad there. Rolex spends a ridiculous amount to advertise. It just adds cost to the watch. Lesser known brands to people outside of the WUS world do way less advertising, and most likely pass that savings on to the consumer. They also create gimmicky theme watches that are priced outlandishly, but no-one else is putting a piece of fabric from the Wright Brother's plane into the rotor of their watch.
> 
> My advice to anyone: buy used. Be patient. Set an alert on watchrecon for the model you'd like to buy and wait it out. It will eventually come up. If you buy new, you better be buying to keep, because you are going to get killed on resale. If you have to buy new, get 30-35% off from your AD or walk away. I know they can swing the steep reduction because many were offering said discount over the holiday sales season. I bought my year old MBII for about $2000 in August. To put that in perspective, that's $3000 off retail for a barely broken-in watch. When I sold it, I was lucky to only loose about $100. Their watches lose 50% of value very quickly. Currently, I'm holding out for a white dial MBII. If one comes up, I'm going to buy with hopes to make it part of my permanent collection. So you can tell that I'm not a hater.


What he said. Haha. Also I'm looking forward to your white dial MBII.

I love my S500.


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## Wooden_spoon

I was meh until I saw them in person. They are unique and very cool. Most of the haters are just going by pics and looking at prices/ stats. 

I agree they are overpriced but not by a whole lot. A lot of Omegas and IWC will sell used for 40% off second hand but no one hates on them. 

My MB3 is one of my favorite watches and truly unique. You’ll never bump into anyone wearing the same watch!


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## RPF

Simply put, they came from nowhere and moved up the food chain too quick. Just ten years ago, nobody heard of Bremont. Today, they are charging Omega and Brietling prices without the cachet of the Swiss. Let's face it. People buy luxury for the experience of brand recognition too. A Bremont watch is not more innovative, beautiful, better made or superior to a Swiss product batting in the same league. But asking for the same money without brand recognition? Even Grand Seiko finds it hard to sell watches next to the Swiss, and Seiko makes a clearly superior product, with the best finishing.


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## Vig2000

1165dvd said:


> They also create gimmicky theme watches that are priced outlandishly, but no-one else is putting a piece of fabric from the Wright Brother's plane into the rotor of their watch.


This is another point that really devalues the brand IMO. It's not only the gimmick of adding a piece of cloth from a plane or some copper from a ship in their watches, but yes, it's also the ridiculous premium they charge to their limited editions pieces-that's in addition to their already overinflated prices that they already charge for their core production pieces. Some of the LEs they released in the past rival Patek prices; it's beyond eye rolling at that point. You'll often hear that their most prominent limited editions always skyrocket in value once they're all sold out, which I would say is true but context is key here: Following the dedicated Bremont forum closely, I noticed a trend over there whenever a Bremont LE is put up for sale. It takes an extraordinary amount of time for an LE to sell, in some cases years, which isn't an exaggeration. The point being, the LEs are very niche IMO, appealing really to your local Bremont fanboy only. Your dedicated or seasoned watch collector isn't going to drop 5 figures on a P-51 with an ETA engine, it's just not going to happen. The artificial overinflation of their LE pieces well after their sold out is objectively unjustified given how notoriously difficult is to sell them pre-owned. IMO, this just lends further evidence that their pricing strategy is almost nonsensical and should very much be reconsidered in order for their detractors to start taking them seriously.


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## Independent George

Vig2000 said:


> 1165dvd said:
> 
> 
> 
> They also create gimmicky theme watches that are priced outlandishly, but no-one else is putting a piece of fabric from the Wright Brother's plane into the rotor of their watch.
> 
> 
> 
> This is another point that really devalues the brand IMO. It's not only the gimmick of adding a piece of cloth from a plane or some copper from a ship in their watches, but yes, it's also the ridiculous premium they charge to their limited editions pieces-that's in addition to their already overinflated prices that they normally charge. Some of the LEs they released in the past rival Patek prices; it's beyond eye rolling at that point. You'll often hear that their most prominent limited editions always skyrocket in value once they're all sold out, which I would say is true but context is key here: Following the dedicated Bremont forum closely, I noticed a trend over there whenever a Bremont LE is put up for sale. It takes an extraordinary amount of time for an LE to sell, in some cases years. The point being, the LEs are very niche IMO, appealing really to your local Bremont fanboy only. Your dedicated or seasoned watch collector isn't going to drop 5 figures on a P-51 with an ETA engine, it's just not going to happen. The artificial overinflation of their LE pieces well after their sold out is objectively unjustified given how notoriously difficult is to sell them pre-owned. IMO, this just lends further evidence that their pricing strategy is almost nonsensical and should very much be reconsidered in order for their detractors to start taking them seriously.
Click to expand...

Interesting. If their LEs sell out at the prices they ask why should they charge less?


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## panzerr

1165dvd said:


> If you have to buy new, get 30-35% off from your AD or walk away.


This is why I don't care for Bremont. Inflated prices with crap resale.


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## Independent George

No, Bremont doesn't have the best resale, but few watches not named Rolex do. Bremont sells at about 60% of list price, which is about average for most brands. However, if you are paying full list price for a Bremont, you probably should not be buying any luxury watches in the first place, because I would have serious concerns that you don't know how any of this works. Generally, you should be able to walk into an AD and walk out with a Bremont paying about 80% of list, including taxes. So, if you pay $4000 for a $5000 watch and you sell it for $2800 to $3000, that is better than average. You will do worse with certain Speedmasters, for example. 

Also, if Bremont feels that they can charge the prices they do and still sell watches, then they aren't "inflated". They are charging the maximum of what the market will allow. It's called capitalism.


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## Independent George

Double post.


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## Michael Day

Independent George said:


> No, Bremont doesn't have the best resale, but few watches not named Rolex do.


Pretty hard to lose many skins on a Tudor at the moment as well.

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## Independent George

Watch4hobby said:


> Just curious....I own and have owned many different brands of watches including Rolex, Omega, Zenith Seiko etc....but I've been in some of the "other" forums and they seem to hate on Bremont watches....why is that ? They are great pieces in my mind and look great....excellent quality and finish, IMHO and great selection of minimalist pieces which I crave ....
> 
> Thoughts ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A word to and from wise: Beware the flippers!

A saleswoman from an AD told me that, with a smile. I initially thought she was referring to buying and selling on the forums, but flippers can be a pretty good asset. They generally don't wear watches that much, they don't keep watches that long and sometimes they are very hot for the sale, so if you do your homework and are patient, you can get a low mileage watch at a very good price.

After being on this board for four months, I realized she was referring to advise/reviews from flippers. That's because flippers are promiscuous, and promiscuous people are fickle. They can't commit and they can't appreciate and sometimes they have agendas.

If resale is very important to you, then, of course, seek advice from the flippers. They know what sells, how fast, and for what price. For example, you might really dig a Rolex Explorer II Polar. You ask a flipper, and the first thing he'll say is that all Rolexes retain value, thought even non-flippers will tell you that. But more often than not, he will also advise you to look at a black dial Explorer II because black dial watches tend to sell faster and sell for more than white dial watches. But if you want to know about the subjective, emotional appeal of owning and wearing the Explorer II Polar, you might get something like "I used to own one, but I sold it and now I have a Submariner/Daytona/Datejust." Essentially he is saying "Yeah, I slept with that chick, but she bored me and know i am sleeping with this other, hotter chick."

Maybe a better analogy is that flippers think of watches as semi-liquid assets, and the quality, looks, the value is determined mainly by its potential return.

By the way, I do not discount resale value. I am very lucky in that I can afford to buy a few 3 and 4 thousand dollar watches and not care much about resale value. But for a lot of people, 3 thousand dollars is a hella lot of money, and they like the secuirty of knowing that if they need cash in a pinch, they can get most of what they paid for the watch.

How do you tell if someone is a flipper? Click their name and look at their forum posts. You might encounter someone with a few thousand posts, but 99.99% of them are "for sale" posts. Posts often contain the proviso that the watch for sale is from their private collection, but you notice that the private collection has, over the years, consisted of 100s of watches and the stock never seems to dwindle. These are not flippers, they are more or less pre-owned watch dealers/traders. Think of these people as "day traders" in watches.

Flippers will buy and sell a lot of watches but they will also make substantive contributions to these boards. I consider flippers more "enthusiast" than "collector." There was a post a few months back called "Confessions of a serial watch flipper." If you can find it, read it. It is full of interesting observations and very good buying and selling advice. But, for the most part, unless you want to know about resale value, take all observations and opinions from flippers about any watch with a few grains of salt.

OK, that was a TL;DR post. What do I think of my Bremonts? I like them very much, I find them to be very handsome and well-made watches that pair easily with anything you wear. They are Chronometers, so accuracy is consistently +1.0 to +2.0 sec/day, which is fanstastic. They don't stand out, which I like because I don't worry about being jacked for wearing one, but almost everyone who looks closely at them says "Ooooo, pretty watch!" Although Bremont thinks of themselves as a chronograph company, the best values, and, IMHO, the best watches, are the three-handers. The MB line is unique and awesome, the S300 and S301 are terrific, versatile watches. I think the AIRCO and Solo lines are better deals and better watches than the IWC Mark XVIIIs. Their chronorgraphs are all COSC certified, and, IMHO, are much much more attractive and better values than Breitlings. I do not have an "in-house movement fetish" so I don't care if they use ETA-made movements -- +1.0 to +2.0 accuracy per day pleases me very much. I am not offended by their pricing, because, well, why should I be? I am very pro-capitalist and I believe that any company can and should charge what the market will bear. Also, luxury watch pricing is more about positioning than about actual value, so the fact that you can go to an AD and walk out the with a Bremont for 20% less than list price means absolutely nothing. The advice that you should buy a Bremont used? I would never buy a brand new Speedmaster, a new IWC Big Pilot, or a new Navitimer, but those watches don't get the "hate" for poor resale value as Bremont does. I don't care about heritage because heritage alone means diddly-squat. You know what has been around for 150 years? Maxwell House coffee. You know what tastes like warm piss? Maxwell House coffee. I think Bremont makes a quality watch so it doesn't matter to me if they have been around 20 or 200 years. I think Bremont's origin story is highly embelleshed at best, utter rubbish at worst, but I have gotten over that because, well, in the Internet age, everyone is free to invent and re-invent themselves, and I don't see why Bremont should be exempt. Besides, they make a quality watch.

Would I buy another Bremont? Sure. Form an AD. Yes, because I can get the COSC certificate. Will I sell my Bremonts? Perhaps. I won't buy a watch that I will not wear at least once a week, so that limits me to about five or six watches. Right now, I am considering revamping my entire collection to two high-end (+10,000) watches, one or two mid-range watches ($3,000-$4,000) and two affordables (less than $1000). I am keeping the Skyhawk because I have had it for 15 years and though four crystal replacements, it's like family. The Defender will be sold soon. Surprisingly accurate, but it doesn't wind, which irritates me. My Maurice Lacroix is in ways my "worst" watch, but it is also my favorite. However, I am eyeing a GP Laureato Chrono, and if I pull the trigger, the ML goes. I might sell the Solo 43 even though it looks snazzy with the black shirt I am wearing. The S300 goes with everything, so that will be a hard one to part with.

Again, a TL;DR post. So, to answer the question, Why the Bremont hate? Forget it, Jake. It's a watch forum. In the wild, among normal people, no one will care about what watch you are wearing, since they are all wearing Apple Watches anyway.

Buy a Bremont and enjoy it.


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## Independent George

Double post again.


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## Vig2000

Independent George said:


> Interesting. If their LEs sell out at the prices they ask why should they charge less?


Again, context is key: Bremont, like many other brands, will often to announce that any given LE has sold out. Right, they've all been sold to their AD network. Now, how long is that rose gold Wright Flyer with a retail price of nearly $45k been sitting in a dealer's storeroom just collecting dust?


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## Independent George

Vig2000 said:


> Again, context is key: Bremont, like many other brands, will often to announce that any given LE has sold out. Right, they've all been sold to their AD network. Now, how long is that rose gold Wright Flyer with a retail price of nearly $45k been sitting in a dealer's storeroom just collecting dust?


Not as long as a Sinn 910 Anniversary for $5500 on Watch Buys.

Yes, Context is key.


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## Independent George

Vig2000 said:


> Again, context is key: Bremont, like many other brands, will often to announce that any given LE has sold out. Right, they've all been sold to their AD network. Now, how long is that rose gold Wright Flyer with a retail price of nearly $45k been sitting in a dealer's storeroom just collecting dust?


Not as long as a Sinn 910 Anniversary for $5500 on Watch Buys.

Yes, Context is key.


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## SnakeMan

My first exposure to Bremont was through watching "Long way down" with Charley Boorman & Ewan McGregor. I have since handled several models in AD's.
I rather like the watches themselves .... but I think that the "make-believe", manufactured "history" really doesn't help the brand.


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## Vig2000

Independent George said:


> Not as long as a Sinn 910 Anniversary for $5500 on Watch Buys.
> 
> Yes, Context is key.


Everytime Watchbuys gets a new batch from Sinn, they sell out just like they're temporarily sold out now, waiting for the next batch.

Correct, context is key.


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## panzerr

Independent George said:


> It's called capitalism.


I'm aware of what that is, but thank you, and I still don't care for Bremont. Just because some people like you are willing to pay for their product does not make it worth it, as demonstrated by their resale. Perhaps if they didn't try so hard to be high end they would do better.


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## Independent George

panzerr said:


> I'm aware of what that is, but thank you, and I still don't care for Bremont. Just because some people like you are willing to pay for their product does not make it worth it, as demonstrated by their resale. Perhaps if they didn't try so hard to be high end they would do better.


Umm, no. That's not how the modern economy works. BMWs are expensive cars. Yet they have terrible residual values, especially compared to Lexus. Yet a new BMW is worth what the market bears. Same rule applies to watches.


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## Independent George

Vig2000 said:


> Everytime Watchbuys gets a new batch from Sinn, they sell out just like they're temporarily sold out now, waiting for the next batch.
> 
> Correct, context is key.


Look, I get you don't like Bremont watches. Looks like you sold one this year. Looks like you didn't get what you think you should have got, probably compared what you paid. Interesting in that it seems to be one of the first watches of the five you listed that sold.

There are a lot of reasons for watch hate on the fourms. A significant reason, in my opinion, is purchase validation. "I bought this watch, so I want to hate on that watch in order to help justify my purchase decision." I understand that. Swiss watches are expensive, and, I suspect, too expensive for many Swiss watch purchasers, i.e., too expensive for most people on this board. If the purchase of a consumer product is contingent on its potential resale value, then it's too expensive for you. But if that held, then the Swiss watch market in the country would crater. Except Rolex. And there are people who think about these things might happen, that the Swiss Watch Market in North America and Europe is, long term, in permanent decline, and those who will be left standing are Rolex and a few lucky alternatives.

Anyway, I don't know you from Adam, but I suspect that a good deal of your Bremont skepticism is that your purchase was not properly validated. And that's fine.


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## Independent George

Independent George said:


> Look, I get you don't like Bremont watches. Looks like you sold one this year. Looks like you didn't get what you think you should have got, probably compared what you paid. Interesting in that it seems to be one of the first watches of the five you listed that sold.
> 
> There are a lot of reasons for watch hate on the fourms. A significant reason, in my opinion, is purchase validation. "I bought this watch, so I want to hate on that watch in order to help justify my purchase decision." I understand that. Swiss watches are expensive, and, I suspect, too expensive for many Swiss watch purchasers, i.e., too expensive for most people on this board. If the purchase of a consumer product is contingent on its potential resale value, then it's too expensive for you. But if that held, then the Swiss watch market in the country would crater. Except Rolex. And there are people who think about these things might happen, that the Swiss Watch Market in North America and Europe is, long term, in permanent decline, and those who will be left standing are Rolex and a few lucky alternatives.
> 
> Anyway, I don't know you from Adam, but I suspect that a good deal of your Bremont skepticism is that your purchase was not properly validated. And that's fine.


BTW: Those 910 Anniversary's sat for at least a year, and the final one didn't sell until Watchbuys went on their North American tour. Most LE's tend to sit. And the Sinn LE, which is a $5000 watch, sat (compared to there sub-$2000 LEs). My point is that most LEs will sit, especially LEs that are more than $10,000.

Also, Feldmar in LA sold the only LE $45,000 Wright Flyer they got.


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## Vig2000

Lol a keyboard warrior in our midst. Jebus still loves you. Triggered.


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## Independent George

And the personal insults come out. 

Looks like I got to you. What, had to blow out the collection because you were over-extended? 

Yeah, sucks to be poor. I'll pray to Jebus for you.


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## Vig2000

I weep for you. What a sad life you must live raging behind the keyboard. I take it back, Jebus hates you. Mods, shut this joker down.


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## Independent George

How am I "raging behind a keyboard"? I thought I was being fairly reasonable. I didn't even call you a Bremont hater, I called you a Bremont skeptic, which I don't think is insulting. Personally, I think skeptics are rational and intelligent beings in that they tend to not be easily duped. Anyway, I posed a fair question -- Is your recent Bremont skepticism due to the fact that your purchase expectations were not met? And you escalated with a personal insult. So I gave back. And then you have escalated it again. If the mods what to shut me down, that's fine. Other than trading, I don't expect to be as "busy" on this board in the future. I think I have gotten everything I can from spending time here, I think I can learn more about watches elsewhere. And if I need to sell or trade, there is always the Bay or Chrono24. You have been here much longer and have more posts than I ever will, so board participation seems to be important to you, so yeah, ban me if necessary. 

Look, I took a bath a reselling a Stowa Partitio. Bought it for almost $1000, sold it for a $500 net. That's a 50% depreciation in less than three months. Doesn't make me think any less of Stowa as a company, but it did make me realize when buying a sub-$1000 watch, don't expect any decent resale. I mean, for $500 more, someone could have bought a Partitio brand new and not accept the risk that comes with buying used. 

If I spent $5000 on something with the expectation of receiving a certain return, I'd be disappointed as well. It's a big reason why I stopped owning BMWs and switched to Lexus. Beemers are much more engaging to drive, but man, their residual value is crap, especially when they come out of warranty. You can always sell and quickly a boring Lexus SUV for 60 to 70% of retail, even out of warranty, and since I have no interest in cars other than reliable, safe and comfortable travel, residual value is a key factor in my purchase decisions. If I were into cars, my calculus would be different. 

I like watches, so my calculus is different. Also, I feel I am more immune to resale concerns than the average WUSsie because I look at it a bit differently. I worked my way through law school as a runner for the CBOE and the MERC, so I have a different experience with asset apprecition and risk. I don't see watches as assets as all, so I don't care about resale value, which you can clearly infer from the watches I own, all of which, except the Orient, will most likely take a 30 to 40% hit if I ever sell them, which I might. You clearly do, and again, if you read my previous posts, I have been very clear I feel that is more than fair and reasonable. 

Anyway, don't take this post as a capitualtion to a threat. If the mods want to ban me, fine. I don't think they will because little I have posted very little that is insulting or mean spirited. You posted an insult, I returned service, and you made a threat. I am sure I will piled on, and again, that's fine. I am going to go to lunch with my still ridiculously sexy wife, so, have at it.


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## Vig2000

Your rambling, spastic posts are almost not worth reading, but I love that you were so easily butthurt by "keyboard warrior." That was nothing, and anything even slightly worse would decimate you and cause more ramblings...so let's treat you like the delicate snowflake you are.

My last post dealing with the likes of you. You're now blocked on my end, so not going to see you're worthless responses. Good bye and good riddance, loser.


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## Independent George

Vig2000 said:


> Your rambling, spastic posts are almost not worth reading, but I love that you were so easily butthurt by "keyboard warrior." That was nothing, and anything even slightly worse would decimate you and cause more ramblings...so let's treat you like the delicate snowflake you are.
> 
> My last post dealing with the likes of you. You're now blocked on my end, so not going to see you're worthless responses. Good bye and good riddance, loser.


Um, ok.

Sorry about what happened to your collection.


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## jonobailey

For clarity I have had an as new second hand Bremont MB2 in the past and think it is a great watch, with some good tech, however I knew that I could get a watch I preferred for the money I had spent and could recoup for the watch.

My biggest issue with Bremont however is still the price and I would never consider paying full RRP. for a Bremont watch or anywhere near to it for that matter. For me there is no question which is better value for example- an Omega with an inhouse master chronometer movement and a far superior bracelet can be had for £3600, not that much more than the rrp. of a Solo, or you could pick up a Damasko watch for just over £1000 which has similar hardening tech etc. 

Bremonts should be viewed as tool watches and personally, to me nearing £4000 for a tool watch is too much. A Rolex or Omega for example has more versatility and the refinement and could be the only watch you ever need to own... not sure that is the case with a Bremont

And I find some of the limited editions cringeworthy and a little bit childish...so what if a watch contains a bit of a spitfire or part of an old boat! To charge £10,000 for what is still a relatively standard watch I find absolutely absurd and while it might be a good money earner for the company it actively puts me off.


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## yankeexpress

Watches are nothing special and the prices are insane, which can be said of many brands. Only consider one deeply discounted. 

Like buying a new Audi, the market value plummets as soon as it goes out the door.


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## Carl.1

Too much thought goes into re sale value. What happened to buying a product because you want to use it yourself? It strikes me that a fair few people here buy with the sole intent to sell on later. 

Maybe i am in the few, i buy to use and rarely sell as i know what i like. I am still driving my 1998 Jeep Cherokee and have probably saved a fortune by not swapping and changing cars all the time. I still enjoy driving it and smile when i walk toward it.


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## 1165dvd

Carl.1 said:


> Too much thought goes into re sale value. What happened to buying a product because you want to use it yourself? It strikes me that a fair few people here buy with the sole intent to sell on later.
> 
> Maybe i am in the few, i buy to use and rarely sell as i know what i like. I am still driving my 1998 Jeep Cherokee and have probably saved a fortune by not swapping and changing cars all the time. I still enjoy driving it and smile when i walk toward it.


I'm not sure that people buy with "intent to sell." I do think some people know that they are restless owners who like to try new watches relatively quickly. They also have limited budgets, so taking huge losses on a new acquisition is a non-starter.

Take Jeep99dad for example. I imagine he readily accepts that he will lose $$$ on many of his purchases. But collecting and trying out and then flipping is a hobby for him. He is simply limiting his risk buy choosing watches that won't kill him on resale. I also believe he has developed such a good relationship with his AD that he gets a heavy discount on most of what he buys.

I also think there are people like me, who slowly move up the watch brand ladder. Buy a piece. Enjoy it for a little. Flip it because you bought smart and won't lose much-maybe even break even or make money. Then invest a little more into your next purchase. I went from Timex to a Benarus as my first mechanical watch. Then moved on to Damasko and Oris. Finally Tudor, Bremont, and AquaTerra and now my new Seamaster, which I doubt I will ever flip. It's sort of a pinnacle for me.

People who say they dont understand flippers must never consider that many might not understand why you would keep a watch that doesn't get worn much. Or why you wouldn't want to try as many watches as you can.

All I'm saying: Owning a Bremont comes with risk if you know it might just be scratching an itch. They are not technically superior to any watch in their price range. In fact, they are overpriced, which has been stated over and over by forum members we ho know much more than me. But they are cool watches, and that's worth something too.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Independent George

Well, we have the answers. Bremont's are considered overpriced, they have poor resale value, and some people are turned off by there marketing.


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## papayaseed

Promotion of artificial history in their ad campaigns (Concorde, Spitfires).


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## Vig2000

papayaseed said:


> Promotion of artificial history in their ad campaigns (Concorde, Spitfires).


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## SnakeMan

Carl.1 said:


> Too much thought goes into re sale value. What happened to buying a product because you want to use it yourself? It strikes me that a fair few people here buy with the sole intent to sell on later.
> 
> Maybe i am in the few, i buy to use and rarely sell as i know what i like. I am still driving my 1998 Jeep Cherokee and have probably saved a fortune by not swapping and changing cars all the time. I still enjoy driving it and smile when i walk toward it.


I completely agree with you.

I buy plenty of things and rarely sell. I buy because I like and want the item and I'm not bothered about future value.

If I sell anything, it is generally for a lot less than I paid... my reasoning is, I've had my enjoyment, now lets give someone else a chance to own this at a bargain price. About the only things I do well with, loosing little money is firearms & shotguns. My regular Gun Dealer knows how well I look after my gear and gives me very good trade-in prices, as I've spent tens of thousands with him.

One of the most irritating phrases I see on watch and knife forum classified adds is "I want what I paid for it" ..... That turns me right off!
It is fine if you have had an item years and the value has increased dramatically over that time.... but NOT if you bought it last week and then decide to try and sell it for the same money.


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## jubbaa

I really like the watches , I think the Brothers are great and being British myself applaud the Brand ....but I don't think they do themselves any favors with their pricing


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## Independent George

SnakeMan said:


> I completely agree with you.
> 
> I buy plenty of things and rarely sell. I buy because I like and want the item and I'm not bothered about future value.
> 
> If I sell anything, it is generally for a lot less than I paid... my reasoning is, I've had my enjoyment, now lets give someone else a chance to own this at a bargain price. About the only things I do well with, loosing little money is firearms & shotguns. My regular Gun Dealer knows how well I look after my gear and gives me very good trade-in prices, as I've spent tens of thousands with him.
> 
> One of the most irritating phrases I see on watch and knife forum classified adds is "I want what I paid for it" ..... That turns me right off!
> It is fine if you have had an item years and the value has increased dramatically over that time.... but NOT if you bought it last week and then decide to try and sell it for the same money.


Interesting. Do firearms keep value? I just assumed they would depreciate like everything else, but now that I think about it, I can see firearms retaining value.


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## SnakeMan

Independent George said:


> Interesting. Do firearms keep value? I just assumed they would depreciate like everything else, but now that I think about it, I can see firearms retaining value.


Things like my "JM" Marlin lever-action rifles have certainly gone up in value... 300% more than what I originally paid 15 years ago. Several other guns are collectable, limited editions that are very likely to be future investments. I've traded in several guns after a year or two of ownership and only lost 10%. I'm happy with that. If, I sell a gun to someone privately I let it go cheap.... but my Firearms dealer offers such good trade-in prices, I'm not going to say no.


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## City74

I dislike them for having no heritage and IMO being very overpriced. I like their designs somewhat and thot briefly about picking up a V2-92 but again the dislikes kept me from it


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## Michael Day

City74 said:


> I dislike them for having no heritage and IMO being very overpriced. I like their designs somewhat and thot briefly about picking up a V2-92 but again the dislikes kept me from it


You seriously dislike a brand for having no heritage!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Carl.1

City74 said:


> I dislike them for having no heritage and IMO being very overpriced. I like their designs somewhat and thot briefly about picking up a V2-92 but again the dislikes kept me from it


Why do you dislike them for having no heritage? Seems odd so i just wondered.


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## Independent George

Carl.1 said:


> Why do you dislike them for having no heritage? Seems odd so I just wondered.


Silly, but not surprising. Much of this, this watch collecting stuff, is driven by branding. Some folks are not honest with themselves when they declare that they make rational purchase decisions and are not swayed at all by marketing, etc. I read a post where the OP claimed that while he is entirely immune to marketing, he takes heritage into serious consideration. Mike the Moderator has expressed similar sentiments in some of his posts. Try to 'splain to them that heritage is marketing, and they'll push back hard. Or put you on the ignore list.

Personal example. Cartier released a new Santos Chrono. I am in the market for a new Chrono. Was looking at a GP Laureato Chrono, but now I am leaning toward the Santos Chrono. Being a little cheaper is one reason, but big reason is also the Cartier name. I admit that.

Or, take my good friend Vig2000. Lots of words above trying to rationalize his Bremont hate, but a lot of it boils down to the fact that he finds Bremont and it's marketing "uppity".


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## Carl.1

Fair enough.

Generally for me heritage means a company that has been about long enough for me to have confidence in their products. It does not stop me though. I bought the Ocean7 LM1-LE, the companies first watch many years ago and it is superb for its purpose and i love it as a dive watch.
I get what you mean though.


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## Independent George

Carl.1 said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Generally, for me, heritage means a company that has been about long enough for me to have confidence in their products. It does not stop me though. I bought the Ocean7 LM1-LE, the companies first watch many years ago and it is superb for its purpose and i love it as a dive watch.
> I get what you mean though.


If you do a watch right, you do not need to draw on an invented heritage. Nomos doesn't, and they seem to be doing well. There are folks who "don't get Nomos" because they don't like the minimalist designs, but rarely, if ever, have I read "I don't like Nomos because they have no heritage." Bremont does ask for it with its cheesy back story.

I ordered an Oak and Oscar, so I am not really that inspired by heritage, as long as I feel I can service a watch as long as, say, if in five years time the watch company goes away.


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## Carl.1

Yes Nomos are a nice clean design. I like Farer for that too but by crikey they charge like a wounded bull!

Must admit i do like some of the Bremont designs but i agree that their pricing is also bizarrely high.


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## Michael Day

I think the Heritage aspect may come from their advertising campaigns. With so much old school stuff in them they infer that they were around then. The truth is just that they are inspired by old school. I think this is a little slight of hand that doesn't go down well with old school fans. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Independent George

Michael Day said:


> I think the Heritage aspect may come from their advertising campaigns. With so much old school stuff in them they infer that they were around then. The truth is just that they are inspired by old school. I think this is a little slight of hand that doesn't go down well with old school fans.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


This.

I am a little more "forgiving" of Bremont pricing because I am lead to believe that final assembly is in the UK, and costs are higher. Bremont does purposefully list their models a little high because they understand that luxury item pricing is about market positioning. I would say that quality wise an AIRCO is equal to an IWC Mark XVIII. But if they price too much lower, in the luxury goods positioning game, they will positioned by journalists, dealers, watch nerds as a lower tier brand, and Bremont didn't want that, because it's very difficult to go upmarket once it's been established that you are "mid-market."

Hence the interest and argument whether Grand Seiko can sucessfully re-position as an upmarket brand.


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## Independent George

Carl.1 said:


> Yes Nomos are a nice clean design. I like Farer for that too but by crikey they charge like a wounded bull!
> 
> Must admit i do like some of the Bremont designs but i agree that their pricing is also bizarrely high.


If Farer were to have final assembly in the UK, and, say, make a lot of small improvements, like improve the case materials, use COSC certified movements, better and anti-magentic protection and price accordingly, I don't think the market would react positively at all, because they are established as a mid-market affordable.


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## Vig2000

Independent George said:


> Or, take my good friend Vig2000. Lots of words above trying to rationalize his Bremont hate, but a lot of it boils down to the fact that he finds Bremont and it's marketing "uppity".


Do you really want to continue this in a public forum, you troll? I stopped responding to your worthless banter, and here you are starting up again. Enough from you. You are just some trolling rando on the Internet, and here you are now playing armchair psychologist purporting to analyze what I'm "rationalizing" and my "hate for Bremont." Well, Dr. Freud, you know absolutely nothing and like the real Dr. Freud you're just some amature hack who thinks they they know a thing or two about what I am trying to "rationalize." The only thing I find "uppity" is you. Do this thread a favor and just disappear. Your presence here is a blemish and only serves to devolve and denigrate this thread, and you are just an embarrassment at this point. If you truly had any shred of dignity and to spare yourself any further humiliation, just end this now and move on your life. But alas and unfortunately, the likes of your caustic, bile-tasting Type A personality will not allow you to walk away, so here's to waiting for the next gem you post.


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## City74

I’ll explain what I meant. By heritage I mean a watch company who has been around, who has added something or done something important for the watch industry. That’s part of the reason I buy watches, for the history of the brand and to be apart of a long standing legacy in a way. It’s the same reason for my dislike of micro brands. Sure some are decent quality but they are a flash in the pan mostly and really don’t do anything special. I’m not saying Bremont is a bad brand. I’m saying for me their lack of heritage and what I perceive as being very overpriced lead me to dislike them.


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## Independent George

Vig2000 said:


> Do you really want to continue this in a public forum, you troll? I stopped responding to your worthless banter, and here you are starting up again. Enough from you. You are just some trolling rando on the Internet, and here you are now playing armchair psychologist purporting to analyze what I'm "rationalizing" and my "hate for Bremont." Well, Dr. Freud, you know absolutely nothing and like the real Dr. Freud you're just some amature hack who thinks they they know a thing or two about what I am trying to "rationalize." The only thing I find "uppity" is you. Do this thread a favor and just disappear. Your presence here is a blemish and only serves to devolve and denigrate this thread, and you are just an embarrassment at this point. If you truly had any shred of dignity and to spare yourself any further humiliation, just end this now and move on your life. But alas and unfortunately, the likes of your caustic, bile-tasting Type A personality will not allow you to walk away, so here's to waiting for the next gem you post.


I thought I was on ignore.

Talk about a snowflake.


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## Independent George

City74 said:


> I'll explain what I meant. By heritage I mean a watch company who has been around, who has added something or done something important for the watch industry. That's part of the reason I buy watches, for the history of the brand and to be apart of a long standing legacy in a way. It's the same reason for my dislike of micro brands. Sure some are decent quality but they are a flash in the pan mostly and really don't do anything special. I'm not saying Bremont is a bad brand. I'm saying for me their lack of heritage and what I perceive as being very overpriced lead me to dislike them.


Fair enough. That's the same way I fell about many micros, in that many really don't offer anything different or special.


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## Vig2000

City74 said:


> I'll explain what I meant. By heritage I mean a watch company who has been around, who has added something or done something important for the watch industry. That's part of the reason I buy watches, for the history of the brand and to be apart of a long standing legacy in a way. It's the same reason for my dislike of micro brands. Sure some are decent quality but they are a flash in the pan mostly and really don't do anything special. I'm not saying Bremont is a bad brand. I'm saying for me their lack of heritage and what I perceive as being very overpriced lead me to dislike them.


You hit the nail right on the head. Based on what you're saying, Bremont shows the characteristics of the microbrands that you generally dislike insofar they come in with zero heritage or provenance, yet they demand the big bucks. It's not like they are part of the HT who has the street cred to justify the prices they charge. Simply put, Bremont doesn't.

But it goes further than that with the nonsense they pulled a few years back, claiming falsely that they developed an in-house movement. I love how the community put them on notice and called them out. No excuse for what they did since it was either incompetence at best or outright dishonesty at worst. IMO, that's way more inexcusable than their lack of heritage.


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## bigclive2011

Non WIS will always hate a brand based on their own personal preferences.

I certainly would have picked up some of their LTD editions if I had been in the right place and time collection wise.

Interesting guys to talk to as well, having met them at Salon QP a few times.


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## jimiwilli

Independent George said:


> A word to and from wise: Beware the flippers!
> 
> A saleswoman from an AD told me that, with a smile. I initially thought she was referring to buying and selling on the forums, but flippers can be a pretty good asset. They generally don't wear watches that much, they don't keep watches that long and sometimes they are very hot for the sale, so if you do your homework and are patient, you can get a low mileage watch at a very good price.
> 
> After being on this board for four months, I realized she was referring to advise/reviews from flippers. That's because flippers are promiscuous, and promiscuous people are fickle. They can't commit and they can't appreciate and sometimes they have agendas.
> 
> If resale is very important to you, then, of course, seek advice from the flippers. They know what sells, how fast, and for what price. For example, you might really dig a Rolex Explorer II Polar. You ask a flipper, and the first thing he'll say is that all Rolexes retain value, thought even non-flippers will tell you that. But more often than not, he will also advise you to look at a black dial Explorer II because black dial watches tend to sell faster and sell for more than white dial watches. But if you want to know about the subjective, emotional appeal of owning and wearing the Explorer II Polar, you might get something like "I used to own one, but I sold it and now I have a Submariner/Daytona/Datejust." Essentially he is saying "Yeah, I slept with that chick, but she bored me and know i am sleeping with this other, hotter chick."
> 
> Maybe a better analogy is that flippers think of watches as semi-liquid assets, and the quality, looks, the value is determined mainly by its potential return.
> 
> By the way, I do not discount resale value. I am very lucky in that I can afford to buy a few 3 and 4 thousand dollar watches and not care much about resale value. But for a lot of people, 3 thousand dollars is a hella lot of money, and they like the secuirty of knowing that if they need cash in a pinch, they can get most of what they paid for the watch.
> 
> How do you tell if someone is a flipper? Click their name and look at their forum posts. You might encounter someone with a few thousand posts, but 99.99% of them are "for sale" posts. Posts often contain the proviso that the watch for sale is from their private collection, but you notice that the private collection has, over the years, consisted of 100s of watches and the stock never seems to dwindle. These are not flippers, they are more or less pre-owned watch dealers/traders. Think of these people as "day traders" in watches.
> 
> Flippers will buy and sell a lot of watches but they will also make substantive contributions to these boards. I consider flippers more "enthusiast" than "collector." There was a post a few months back called "Confessions of a serial watch flipper." If you can find it, read it. It is full of interesting observations and very good buying and selling advice. But, for the most part, unless you want to know about resale value, take all observations and opinions from flippers about any watch with a few grains of salt.
> 
> OK, that was a TL;DR post. What do I think of my Bremonts? I like them very much, I find them to be very handsome and well-made watches that pair easily with anything you wear. They are Chronometers, so accuracy is consistently +1.0 to +2.0 sec/day, which is fanstastic. They don't stand out, which I like because I don't worry about being jacked for wearing one, but almost everyone who looks closely at them says "Ooooo, pretty watch!" Although Bremont thinks of themselves as a chronograph company, the best values, and, IMHO, the best watches, are the three-handers. The MB line is unique and awesome, the S300 and S301 are terrific, versatile watches. I think the AIRCO and Solo lines are better deals and better watches than the IWC Mark XVIIIs. Their chronorgraphs are all COSC certified, and, IMHO, are much much more attractive and better values than Breitlings. I do not have an "in-house movement fetish" so I don't care if they use ETA-made movements -- +1.0 to +2.0 accuracy per day pleases me very much. I am not offended by their pricing, because, well, why should I be? I am very pro-capitalist and I believe that any company can and should charge what the market will bear. Also, luxury watch pricing is more about positioning than about actual value, so the fact that you can go to an AD and walk out the with a Bremont for 20% less than list price means absolutely nothing. The advice that you should buy a Bremont used? I would never buy a brand new Speedmaster, a new IWC Big Pilot, or a new Navitimer, but those watches don't get the "hate" for poor resale value as Bremont does. I don't care about heritage because heritage alone means diddly-squat. You know what has been around for 150 years? Maxwell House coffee. You know what tastes like warm piss? Maxwell House coffee. I think Bremont makes a quality watch so it doesn't matter to me if they have been around 20 or 200 years. I think Bremont's origin story is highly embelleshed at best, utter rubbish at worst, but I have gotten over that because, well, in the Internet age, everyone is free to invent and re-invent themselves, and I don't see why Bremont should be exempt. Besides, they make a quality watch.
> 
> Would I buy another Bremont? Sure. Form an AD. Yes, because I can get the COSC certificate. Will I sell my Bremonts? Perhaps. I won't buy a watch that I will not wear at least once a week, so that limits me to about five or six watches. Right now, I am considering revamping my entire collection to two high-end (+10,000) watches, one or two mid-range watches ($3,000-$4,000) and two affordables (less than $1000). I am keeping the Skyhawk because I have had it for 15 years and though four crystal replacements, it's like family. The Defender will be sold soon. Surprisingly accurate, but it doesn't wind, which irritates me. My Maurice Lacroix is in ways my "worst" watch, but it is also my favorite. However, I am eyeing a GP Laureato Chrono, and if I pull the trigger, the ML goes. I might sell the Solo 43 even though it looks snazzy with the black shirt I am wearing. The S300 goes with everything, so that will be a hard one to part with.
> 
> Again, a TL;DR post. So, to answer the question, Why the Bremont hate? Forget it, Jake. It's a watch forum. In the wild, among normal people, no one will care about what watch you are wearing, since they are all wearing Apple Watches anyway.
> 
> Buy a Bremont and enjoy it.


Your Maxwell House Coffee post is life 

I agree with this post 100%. I've owned 2 Bremonts, 2 s500 one in black and one in blue loved them both, but I'm an IWC fanatic and they went when I decided to revamp my collection. I will own a Bremont again in the near future. They have a few pieces that really speak to me. The MBII white Dial is stunning. I also like most of their Chronos, but I would need one in white or blue to balance out my collection.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TKiteCD

I remember when they were just in the early stages of becoming Bremont - over on EOT one of their owners would post regularly. Anyway, as to Bremont, I believe they are good watches, but they have no heritage (yet demand the price of watches that have it). Call me stuck up, call me a snob, call me anything you feel about this, but I like watches who have a nice history. Like I said, they make good watches though (I don't hate them, I just wouldn't buy one).


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## TKiteCD

City74 said:


> I'll explain what I meant. By heritage I mean a watch company who has been around, who has added something or done something important for the watch industry. That's part of the reason I buy watches, for the history of the brand and to be apart of a long standing legacy in a way. It's the same reason for my dislike of micro brands. Sure some are decent quality but they are a flash in the pan mostly and really don't do anything special. I'm not saying Bremont is a bad brand. I'm saying for me their lack of heritage and what I perceive as being very overpriced lead me to dislike them.


Yep, basically what I said. No heritage, over priced. Companies like Rolex, Omega, and others who have made significant innovations in the watch world, been around 100 years or more etc. can charge the prices they do because of their heritage and innovations.


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## DaleEArnold

Bought a Chrono a few weeks ago..nice watch, well built. In fact it's a real Beauty. Wear it once in a while.


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## 8Days

Love my MBII - fantastic watch - looks great, a little unusual, and tough as a mofo.

Almost wish I cared what others think.

One caveat - I bought used.


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## bunnswatch

I saw 2 pieces I really like - but honestly I feel discouraged seeing some of the feedback on other forums. Feels like I'm not getting back for my buck - which keeps me away.


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## FSU92grad

DaleEArnold said:


> Bought a Chrono a few weeks ago..nice watch, well built. In fact it's a real Beauty. Wear it once in a while.


Why wear it only once in a while ?? I'd be wearing that one a whole lot !!!


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## FSU92grad

bunnswatch said:


> I saw 2 pieces I really like - but honestly I feel discouraged seeing some of the feedback on other forums. Feels like I'm not getting back for my buck - which keeps me away.


I've got two Bremont's and a Rolex Sub along with an Omega Railmaster and Seiko Prospex PADI....I was like you but I've started to buy what I like now versus letting some Rolex snobs steer me away.....resale value is pretty bad for these but it's also equally bad for Omega and Breitling....I love the Bremont bland and their newer pieces are aesthetically very pleasing and I would venture to say the quality is right up there with IWC, if not better....


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## sjsoon

Like many of the Bremont models, and love, in particular MB range .


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## jkpa

Their designs are not bad but all the negatives posted are the reasons I won’t buy any ever. For me, they’re one of the worst offenders in the hyped/bs marketing of today. I wouldn’t wear it if it was free.


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## G26okie

I really like Bremont as a brand and some of their watches. I had a blue/white supermarine S500 for a little while that I bought used that came with some very very glaring quality control and finishing issues. 

Even after Bremont stepped up and replaced a lot of parts under warranty (dial, hands, bezel insert) I felt like the dial/hand finishing couldn't match the price they commanded. The case finishing and quality was top notch, but the finishing to the edges of the polished indices, the lume filling them being really uneven, the mis-aligned day/date left something to be desired. Just not on par with the likes of Tag Heuer or Omega for similar priced models.

These finishing issues can sometimes even be seen in pictures of those for sale.


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## G26okie

double post.


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## johnnmiller1

That definitely highlights the issues with hand finishing I'm afraid. Those same small inconsistencies are the reason that some people pay twice as much for a pre-Vendome Panerai, a Kaventsmann or others. I see that on my s301 and enjoy its uniqueness rather than baulk at it. I completely understand the need to have perfection for the price we pay for them though.



G26okie said:


> I really like Bremont as a brand and some of their watches. I had a blue/white supermarine S500 for a little while that I bought used that came with some very very glaring quality control and finishing issues.
> 
> Even after Bremont stepped up and replaced a lot of parts under warranty (dial, hands, bezel insert) I felt like the dial/hand finishing couldn't match the price they commanded. The case finishing and quality was top notch, but the finishing to the edges of the polished indices, the lume filling them being really uneven, the mis-aligned day/date left something to be desired. Just not on par with the likes of Tag Heuer or Omega for similar priced models.
> 
> These finishing issues can sometimes even be seen in pictures of those for sale.


----------



## G26okie

johnnmiller1 said:


> That definitely highlights the issues with hand finishing I'm afraid. Those same small inconsistencies are the reason that some people pay twice as much for a pre-Vendome Panerai, a Kaventsmann or others. I see that on my s301 and enjoy its uniqueness rather than baulk at it. I completely understand the need to have perfection for the price we pay for them though.


Hand finishing never crossed my mind. It was more like are they using the lowest Chinese bidder to make dials?


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## junta

I would love to pick up an S301, if it was around 2k USD

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## johnnmiller1

I can pretty much quash that. My good friend works for Bremont and was trained in the UK at their factory, though he now works in the (week old) Bremont boutique in Melbourne. He has told me about their hand finishing, including the (painting?) of the dials. 

I went to the Boutique opening last week and they showed us video of the step-by-step manufacture of the hands, dials and cases and the finishing of the movements, all of which my friend has previously told me about. 

I would easily put $100 as a bet that they are not printed or manufactured in China in any way. Nick English, one of the two owners of the company was there and he chatted on about how they started manufacturing aircraft parts before making watches. He is absolutely OBSESSED with detail (and a nice guy as well). He was telling me about all the iterations that they went through with my s301 before they decided on the final dial layout, he is hands-on with the design team the whole way through. He was telling us about all the stages they are going with to produce the watch entirely in house. It is a 5 year goal for them, they are designing a whole new movement. Not just a replica movement using gear structures and ratios from the 60s; re-designing the gear ratios, bridges and gearing to make something completely new. In the meantime they do make the case, dial, hands, crown, pin-buckle, caseback and shock absorbing system and already make many of the parts of the movement, though not all.


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## bbuckbbuck

people here talking about “legacy” and “heritage” are talking nonsense. You buy a watch because it’s the best, not because the company is old. People who buy watches because of “heritage” are simply buying the same marketing hocus pocus they complain about with Bremont. 

Bremont is making some incredible timepieces. That’s true regardless of whether they’re a year old or 100 years old.


----------



## Jrsaleh

bbuckbbuck said:


> people here talking about "legacy" and "heritage" are talking nonsense. You buy a watch because it's the best, not because the company is old. People who buy watches because of "heritage" are simply buying the same marketing hocus pocus they complain about with Bremont.
> 
> Bremont is making some incredible timepieces. That's true regardless of whether they're a year old or 100 years old.


Yes


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## Wooden_spoon

bbuckbbuck said:


> people here talking about "legacy" and "heritage" are talking nonsense. You buy a watch because it's the best, not because the company is old. People who buy watches because of "heritage" are simply buying the same marketing hocus pocus they complain about with Bremont.
> 
> Bremont is making some incredible timepieces. That's true regardless of whether they're a year old or 100 years old.


Yes. I have read people scoff at Seiko's heritage. Can you imagine? "Heritage" is just another way to justify the extra money you pay for the name.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gyang333

The problem for Bremont for me is two-fold. (1) The prices seem inflated for what they offer. Maybe I am wrong, since I've never held one in person and the finishing justifies the cost. (2) The deception about having an in-house movement, and then when confronted, back-peddled and said it was an exclusive movement designed by La Joux-Perret, but then had to back-track some more when people noticed there were very clear similarities between the Bremont movement and an Arnold & Son movement.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/real-s...er-in-house-made-bwc01-london-watch-movement/


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## jubbaa

When comparing Bremont to the likes of Farer (or what some micro brands are doing) and commenting on the price or the former and how there is much more 'value' in the latter , I think its important to remember Bremont are a retail brand that has many employees world wide to support , retail stores ( that come with fixed fit-out costs , and ongoing running costs ), global marketing campaigns, a factory where they do their own assembly and a ton of other expenses , and where they are not selling through their own retail outlets are having to sell their product at wholesale to Authorized Dealers,all of which have to be covered in the margin of the product . 

The others are internet brands usually run on a staff of 1-3 people who sell direct to consumer. 

The output of the product could be similar , what you are buying is the brand, the design language that appeals to you , and how they got the product into your hands.

Choose your poison and quit criticizing other peoples choice.


----------



## gyang333

jubbaa said:


> When comparing Bremont to the likes of Farer (or what some micro brands are doing) and commenting on the price or the former and how there is much more 'value' in the latter , I think its important to remember Bremont are a retail brand that has many employees world wide to support , retail stores ( that come with fixed fit-out costs , and ongoing running costs ), global marketing campaigns, a factory where they do their own assembly and a ton of other expenses , and where they are not selling through their own retail outlets are having to sell their product at wholesale to Authorized Dealers,all of which have to be covered in the margin of the product .
> 
> The others are internet brands usually run on a staff of 1-3 people who sell direct to consumer.
> 
> The output of the product could be similar , what you are buying is the brand, the design language that appeals to you , and how they got the product into your hands.
> 
> Choose your poison and quit criticizing other peoples choice.


When I'm talking about price, I'm certainly not comparing Bremont to micro-brands. I'm comparing to the likes of Hamilton -> Omega in terms of price point and quality. And (again never having held one) I question the quality to price ratio.


----------



## Jrsaleh

gyang333 said:


> jubbaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> When comparing Bremont to the likes of Farer (or what some micro brands are doing) and commenting on the price or the former and how there is much more 'value' in the latter , I think its important to remember Bremont are a retail brand that has many employees world wide to support , retail stores ( that come with fixed fit-out costs , and ongoing running costs ), global marketing campaigns, a factory where they do their own assembly and a ton of other expenses , and where they are not selling through their own retail outlets are having to sell their product at wholesale to Authorized Dealers,all of which have to be covered in the margin of the product .
> 
> The others are internet brands usually run on a staff of 1-3 people who sell direct to consumer.
> 
> The output of the product could be similar , what you are buying is the brand, the design language that appeals to you , and how they got the product into your hands.
> 
> Choose your poison and quit criticizing other peoples choice.
> 
> 
> 
> When I'm talking about price, I'm certainly not comparing Bremont to micro-brands. I'm comparing to the likes of Hamilton -> Omega in terms of price point and quality. And (again never having held one) I question the quality to price ratio.
Click to expand...

So i recommend you go actually check one out before you judge. Ready for the floodgates to open.....i handled a sub yesterday and i think both my bremonts feel more sturdy and every bit as good quality.


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## Independent George

gyang333 said:


> When I'm talking about price, I'm certainly not comparing Bremont to micro-brands. I'm comparing to the likes of Hamilton -> Omega in terms of price point and quality. And (again never having held one) I question the quality to price ratio.


Bremonts at retail are certainly not a great value, and my AD would agree. But one also doesn't buy a Bremont at full retail.

Bremonts have a much better fit, finishing, and construction, yada, yada, yada than Hamiltons and Longines. I think Bremont makes a better watch than TAG. I think IWCs are more attractive and have they a bit more "polish" to the overall presentation, but IWCs are also far from a bargain. Brand I would compare Bremont to is Breitling (or IWC before Richemont bought them and prettified the brand). In my opinion, handling both watches side by side, I would say the ETA based Breitlings compared to Bremonts are an either/or choice. Dollar to dollar, I wouild have bought a Breiling over a Bremont, but Breitling aggressively discourages ADs from discounting and I bought my Bremonts at more than 25% off out the door, so in that sense it was a no brainer for me.

My one "complaint" about Bremont's is that the designs are a bit too "safe." Some people have commented that Bremonts just don't grab them, and I would agree. But more often than not, I just need my watches to be watches, and Bremont performs that duty quite well.


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## fish70

RPF said:


> Simply put, they came from nowhere and moved up the food chain too quick. Just ten years ago, nobody heard of Bremont. Today, they are charging Omega and Brietling prices without the cachet of the Swiss. Let's face it. People buy luxury for the experience of brand recognition too. A Bremont watch is not more innovative, beautiful, better made or superior to a Swiss product batting in the same league. But asking for the same money without brand recognition? Even Grand Seiko finds it hard to sell watches next to the Swiss, and Seiko makes a clearly superior product, with the best finishing.


Sounds like marketing genius!


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## fish70

Gun flipping is usually a great way to get rid of unwanted cash. Trading to a dealer is no better than going to a pawnbroker usually.


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## fish70

Maybe because they have fake heritage?


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## franco60

I just bought a (used, but LNIB) DH-88 Limited Edition. I've collected Rolex and Omega for 25 years and currently own several, a Grand Seiko, El Primero, and many vintage. There's a lot of pedigrees there along with the incredible technology blended (SBGH267 20th Anniversary w/9S movement) with history with the Grand Seiko. So the heritage and longevity of brands isn't lost on me.

I did a fair amount of research on Bremont and the DH-88 in particular, and it is one of the very LE watches I've the the "hate on" and price negativity mentioned here. As much as I research in general, amazingly, not being that familiar with the brand and focusing on the watch and it's features (aesthetics, movement (7754 base movement no slouch), GMT function, case design and construction, innovations, current status of the brand, I bought the (expensive) watch. I had no idea about the fake heritage claims. I bought the watch because I tried a fellow member's on at get-together and couldn't get it out of my mind-that compelling a piece. Loved the DH-88 Comet aspect of history and I'm not even an aviator.

The haters, however not cool whatever went on previously is, there is an established connection to watch interest to the point of passion, knowing the workings (even though no real watchmaking experience) , and to aviation.

Long story made longer (!), Bremont isn't a micro brand that designed a watch,!had it machines in China, put in an decent movement, and started cranking them out. I own some micros and am no snob, and some are quite good, but the thoughtfulness and roots of Bremont isn't there. My Bremont is a fine watch. Let's face it, EVERY expensive watch is is a timepiece that any other watch on the planet can do the the same thing - tell time. There's serious marketing and mark-ups on all, and no dial with a name on it is worth the premium but we all still pay it. Very few are true investments and we pay the market for them. We buy because we like them, they're cool, and we enjoy wearing them. There you go-precisely what's the problem with Bremont doing the same. So for now I'm solidly in the Bremont camp. The last thing I need is another brand affinity as I tend to go crazy, but it's a damn cool watch. Enjoy gents!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wooden_spoon

franco60 said:


> I just bought a (used, but LNIB) DH-88 Limited Edition. I've collected Rolex and Omega for 25 years and currently own several, a Grand Seiko, El Primero, and many vintage. There's a lot of pedigrees there along with the incredible technology blended (SBGH267 20th Anniversary w/9S movement) with history with the Grand Seiko. So the heritage and longevity of brands isn't lost on me.
> 
> I did a fair amount of research on Bremont and the DH-88 in particular, and it is one of the very LE watches I've the the "hate on" and price negativity mentioned here. As much as I research in general, amazingly, not being that familiar with the brand and focusing on the watch and it's features (aesthetics, movement (7754 base movement no slouch), GMT function, case design and construction, innovations, current status of the brand, I bought the (expensive) watch. I had no idea about the fake heritage claims. I bought the watch because I tried a fellow member's on at get-together and couldn't get it out of my mind-that compelling a piece. Loved the DH-88 Comet aspect of history and I'm not even an aviator.
> 
> The haters, however not cool whatever went on previously is, there is an established connection to watch interest to the point of passion, knowing the workings (even though no real watchmaking experience) , and to aviation.
> 
> Long story made longer (!), Bremont isn't a micro brand that designed a watch,!had it machines in China, put in an decent movement, and started cranking them out. I own some micros and am no snob, and some are quite good, but the thoughtfulness and roots of Bremont isn't there. My Bremont is a fine watch. Let's face it, EVERY expensive watch is is a timepiece that any other watch on the planet can do the the same thing - tell time. There's serious marketing and mark-ups on all, and no dial with a name on it is worth the premium but we all still pay it. Very few are true investments and we pay the market for them. We buy because we like them, they're cool, and we enjoy wearing them. There you go-precisely what's the problem with Bremont doing the same. So for now I'm solidly in the Bremont camp. The last thing I need is another brand affinity as I tend to go crazy, but it's a damn cool watch. Enjoy gents!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well said!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vig2000

franco60 said:


> Long story made longer (!), Bremont isn't a micro brand that designed a watch,!had it machines in China, put in an decent movement, and started cranking them out
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Anyone who thinks that Bremont is a microbrand or that their watches are made in China is misguided. That's not the issue, and people take umbrage with other aspects of the brand, which have already been discussed in ad infinitum here.

Is that the DH-88 that MSW was selling?


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## Alysandir

So I'm just going to throw out my $0.03 (adjusted for inflation). I've said this is in other posts about Bremont, so I ask forgiveness from the long-timers who've heard this before.

*On the subject of "fake" heritage:*

There's really two ways to look at this:

1) *Does anyone really buy a watch because of it's heritage?* Seriously, show of hands? "Well, you see, I previously hadn't considered Breguet as a brand, but the *heritage* - oh my word, the heritage - really swayed my opinion." Really, people? So Bremont is a terrible watch because it has no heritage...but a company like...oh, let's say Breitling...whose heritage includes being bought by Sicura for basically the trademark and dies, and having elements sold to Ollech & Wajs...that's a heritage beyond reproach apparently. (According to Federico, it's a better brand than Rolex.) Or how about Blancpain - another brand I have a soft spot for - having traded hands several times and yet can still trace a fairly crooked line back to the original family? And that doesn't even count the fact that they are a marque under Swatch Group just like Breguet and Omega...similar to how Vacheron Constantin, ALS, Cartier, Piaget, IWC, JLC, and many more, are currently owned by Richemont. This all counts as unreproachable heritage? Neat.

2) *The Bremont story is fake and cheesy*. Well, for a fake story, the brothers really put a lot of effort into it to making it believable, including killing their father Euan in a tragic air accident in 1995. We know this happened because the official AAIB report is still available on the internet (start here: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=18870).

And if you ever meet Nick English - his son and one of the co-founders of Bremont - he still has physical problems dating back to the crash. His brother Giles? He was involved in a similar crash in 2013 (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391522/Breton-Watch-millionaire-pilot-Giles-English-lost-power-crashed-vintage-plane.html.

These guys are aviators from a family that owns their own aircraft and put on air shows up until their father died. Now...did the story about landing at a Monsieur Bremont's farm really happen? Who knows? But enough of their "story" can be proven true that there's no reason to think they are lying about it. If you ever get a chance to meet these guys, they've got this sort of chill, "we've always had money so we've got nothing to prove" air about them, and they're basically doing this (making watches) because, "Hey, why not? We like watches. Don't you like watches?" They don't care if you think they're a couple of goof-balls with a cheesy story. (It also doesn't hurt that the Bremont Winery just happens to be in the region of France where they originally said they crashed (although in later accounts, they no longer disclose the region).

*On the subject of being overpriced:*

This is another one of those where, for reasons I can only speculate, gets trundled out for some brands and not for others. So Bremont uses ETA/Valjoux movements. Okay. So does Breitling; and no one called those watches overpriced, even though they happened to be in pretty much the same price point as Bremont. IWC as well uses ETA/Valjoux for their lower-end offerings. Tudor did up until a couple years ago, and they are a forum darling, to the point where many Tudor aficionados swear by the old ETA Tudors vs the thicker in-house movement.

But I digress...this was supposed to be about the overall value proposition of Bremont. True, their residual value for the non-LEs generally stinks, but you should at least know what you're getting for your money, right?

- *Some of the hardest steel in the industry*. 2000 Vickers, actually. Fun fact: the steel is so hard, they cannot actually refinish it. As someone mentioned above, they just replace that component of the case if it gets too badly messed up.

- *"Trip-tick" cases*. Oh yeah...you did know almost all of their watches come with a three part case - versus a monolithic case - so that individual parts of it can be replaced, right? I mean, sure, it also looks cool and keeps their watches from looking slab-sided, but there's actually a reason for the three-part case.

- *Anti-shock mounts*. This one makes me laugh, because a frequent criticism I've heard directed at Bremont is that their cases are "too big," both in thickness and diameter, because they've "bought into the fad of big watches." Uh, no, not exactly. You see, if you turn over a Bremont watch, in most models you'll see a little flash of red or blue peeking out at you from three locations just along the edge of the rear crystal. You might find yourself wondering what that is. Well, wonder no longer: it's a movement mount. You see, the entire movement floats inside the case on anti-shock mounts. The. Entire. Movement. That's why the cases are oversized, to give it space to vibrate from shocks without it banging into anything.









- *Anti-reflective coating*. There's two ways to approach this: if you're Rolex you say to heck with AR coating (except under the cyclops) because you don't want the crystal show spots where the AR has worn away. Or if you're Bremont, you put seven bloody layers on both sides of the crystal and dare people to try to wear it down to bare crystal through normal use.

- *Temperature-resistant oils*. They don't do this for all of their models (I don't think, at least) but for a couple - notable the Terra Nova line - they use oils that have higher resistance to heat and cold. Because you might find yourself in Antarctica. Or parts of Canada.

- *They give a crapton of money away*. Certainly Bremont has made no bones about wanting to establish a manufactory in Henley-on-Thames, and that takes money. But those "ridiculously overpriced" LEs people complain about? Every single one of them was done in conjunction with donations to a charitable historical preservation cause. Yeah, I know other brands do this too. Rolex is a charitable trust, for crying out loud. But I wager most people didn't know that Bremont wasn't pocketing the money from those crazy-expensive LEs, which BTW, have held on to their value, if not appreciated in value. Good luck finding a complete set at less than MSRP.

So, does this all mean that their watches *aren't* overpriced? No, of course not; what watch *isn't* truly overpriced nowadays? But it's not like Bremont outsources this stuff to China and slaps their name on it. They may use off-the-shelf ebauches that they tend finish themselves and upgrade a few bits, but everything else they make in England.

Look, if you are of the opinion that Bremont is a crap brand, I'm not going to tell you different. Everyone needs to value what they need to value. But having had many conversations with Nick, and a couple with Giles, I can attest that either they are the real deal or they are an amazing pair of actors. They love watches. They have no illusions that they will never be a big deal. They'll tell you they needed something to do after walking away from the air show business and this was one thing that their wives would go along with. They want to enjoy the ride. They want to bring watch manufacturing back to England. Selling watches gives them an excuse to travel and see the world. They admire the heck out of Rolex and want to make tool watches the way Rolex used to be. They're legitimately likable fellows who'll talk watches or industry with anyone who wants to have a conversation. And yes, I hope they success in their attempt to make something of Bremont. If that makes me a dummy, then so be it.

Regards,
Alysandir


----------



## Helo

Alysandir said:


> So I'm just going to throw out my $0.03 (adjusted for inflation). I've said this is in other posts about Bremont, so I ask forgiveness from the long-timers who've heard this before.
> 
> *On the subject of "fake" heritage:*
> 
> There's really two ways to look at this:
> 
> 1) *Does anyone really buy a watch because of it's heritage?* Seriously, show of hands? "Well, you see, I previously hadn't considered Breguet as a brand, but the *heritage* - oh my word, the heritage - really swayed my opinion." Really, people? So Bremont is a terrible watch because it has no heritage...but a company like...oh, let's say Breitling...whose heritage includes being bought by Sicura for basically the trademark and dies, and having elements sold to Ollech & Wajs...that's a heritage beyond reproach apparently. (According to Federico, it's a better brand than Rolex.) Or how about Blancpain - another brand I have a soft spot for - having traded hands several times and yet can still trace a fairly crooked line back to the original family? And that doesn't even count the fact that they are a marque under Swatch Group just like Breguet and Omega...similar to how Vacheron Constantin, ALS, Cartier, Piaget, IWC, JLC, and many more, are currently owned by Richemont. This all counts as unreproachable heritage? Neat.
> 
> 2) *The Bremont story is fake and cheesy*. Well, for a fake story, the brothers really put a lot of effort into it to making it believable, including killing their father Euan in a tragic air accident in 1995. We know this happened because the official AAIB report is still available on the internet (start here: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=18870).
> 
> And if you ever meet Nick English - his son and one of the co-founders of Bremont - he still has physical problems dating back to the crash. His brother Giles? He was involved in a similar crash in 2013 (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391522/Breton-Watch-millionaire-pilot-Giles-English-lost-power-crashed-vintage-plane.html.
> 
> These guys are aviators from a family that owns their own aircraft and put on air shows up until their father died. Now...did the story about landing at a Monsieur Bremont's farm really happen? Who knows? But enough of their "story" can be proven true that there's no reason to think they are lying about it. If you ever get a chance to meet these guys, they've got this sort of chill, "we've always had money so we've got nothing to prove" air about them, and they're basically doing this (making watches) because, "Hey, why not? We like watches. Don't you like watches?" They don't care if you think they're a couple of goof-balls with a cheesy story. (It also doesn't hurt that the Bremont Winery just happens to be in the region of France where they originally said they crashed (although in later accounts, they no longer disclose the region).
> 
> *On the subject of being overpriced:*
> 
> This is another one of those where, for reasons I can only speculate, gets trundled out for some brands and not for others. So Bremont uses ETA/Valjoux movements. Okay. So does Breitling; and no one called those watches overpriced, even though they happened to be in pretty much the same price point as Bremont. IWC as well uses ETA/Valjoux for their lower-end offerings. Tudor did up until a couple years ago, and they are a forum darling, to the point where many Tudor aficionados swear by the old ETA Tudors vs the thicker in-house movement.
> 
> But I digress...this was supposed to be about the overall value proposition of Bremont. True, their residual value for the non-LEs generally stinks, but you should at least know what you're getting for your money, right?
> 
> - *Some of the hardest steel in the industry*. 2000 Vickers, actually. Fun fact: the steel is so hard, they cannot actually refinish it. As someone mentioned above, they just replace that component of the case if it gets too badly messed up.
> 
> - *"Trip-tick" cases*. Oh yeah...you did know almost all of their watches come with a three part case - versus a monolithic case - so that individual parts of it can be replaced, right? I mean, sure, it also looks cool and keeps their watches from looking slab-sided, but there's actually a reason for the three-part case.
> 
> - *Anti-shock mounts*. This one makes me laugh, because a frequent criticism I've heard directed at Bremont is that their cases are "too big," both in thickness and diameter, because they've "bought into the fad of big watches." Uh, no, not exactly. You see, if you turn over a Bremont watch, in most models you'll see a little flash of red or blue peeking out at you from three locations just along the edge of the rear crystal. You might find yourself wondering what that is. Well, wonder no longer: it's a movement mount. You see, the entire movement floats inside the case on anti-shock mounts. The. Entire. Movement. That's why the cases are oversized, to give it space to vibrate from shocks without it banging into anything.
> 
> View attachment 13999301
> 
> 
> - *Anti-reflective coating*. There's two ways to approach this: if you're Rolex you say to heck with AR coating (except under the cyclops) because you don't want the crystal show spots where the AR has worn away. Or if you're Bremont, you put seven bloody layers on both sides of the crystal and dare people to try to wear it down to bare crystal through normal use.
> 
> - *Temperature-resistant oils*. They don't do this for all of their models (I don't think, at least) but for a couple - notable the Terra Nova line - they use oils that have higher resistance to heat and cold. Because you might find yourself in Antarctica. Or parts of Canada.
> 
> - *They give a crapton of money away*. Certainly Bremont has made no bones about wanting to establish a manufactory in Henley-on-Thames, and that takes money. But those "ridiculously overpriced" LEs people complain about? Every single one of them was done in conjunction with donations to a charitable historical preservation cause. Yeah, I know other brands do this too. Rolex is a charitable trust, for crying out loud. But I wager most people didn't know that Bremont wasn't pocketing the money from those crazy-expensive LEs, which BTW, have held on to their value, if not appreciated in value. Good luck finding a complete set at less than MSRP.
> 
> So, does this all mean that their watches *aren't* overpriced? No, of course not; what watch *isn't* truly overpriced nowadays? But it's not like Bremont outsources this stuff to China and slaps their name on it. They may use off-the-shelf ebauches that they tend finish themselves and upgrade a few bits, but everything else they make in England.
> 
> Look, if you are of the opinion that Bremont is a crap brand, I'm not going to tell you different. Everyone needs to value what they need to value. But having had many conversations with Nick, and a couple with Giles, I can attest that either they are the real deal or they are an amazing pair of actors. They love watches. They have no illusions that they will never be a big deal. They'll tell you they needed something to do after walking away from the air show business and this was one thing that their wives would go along with. They want to enjoy the ride. They want to bring watch manufacturing back to England. Selling watches gives them an excuse to travel and see the world. They admire the heck out of Rolex and want to make tool watches the way Rolex used to be. They're legitimately likable fellows who'll talk watches or industry with anyone who wants to have a conversation. And yes, I hope they success in their attempt to make something of Bremont. If that makes me a dummy, then so be it.
> 
> Regards,
> Alysandir


Very well said! I agree with your $0.03


----------



## sjsoon

Helo said:


> Very well said! I agree with your $0.03


I will up your $0.03 to $0.1 .... well said!


----------



## Geology Rocks

I will be purchasing a Bremont U2 in blue here in the near future. I am looking for a nice used example primarily because I don’t want to spend $5100 on a new example when I have a new infant at home. Having worn the watch and looked it over a few times I have no doubt it is worth what they are selling it for. There is a love of flight and the U2 as the primary reasons. 

In the end I buy the watches I like, will wear, and don’t care about resale because I haven’t really ever sold a watch.

If you don’t like something that is fine, but don’t knock someone elses likes simply because you can’t see the value in it.


----------



## G26okie

johnnmiller1 said:


> I can pretty much quash that. My good friend works for Bremont and was trained in the UK at their factory, though he now works in the (week old) Bremont boutique in Melbourne. He has told me about their hand finishing, including the (painting?) of the dials.
> 
> I went to the Boutique opening last week and they showed us video of the step-by-step manufacture of the hands, dials and cases and the finishing of the movements, all of which my friend has previously told me about.
> 
> I would easily put $100 as a bet that they are not printed or manufactured in China in any way. Nick English, one of the two owners of the company was there and he chatted on about how they started manufacturing aircraft parts before making watches. He is absolutely OBSESSED with detail (and a nice guy as well). He was telling me about all the iterations that they went through with my s301 before they decided on the final dial layout, he is hands-on with the design team the whole way through. He was telling us about all the stages they are going with to produce the watch entirely in house. It is a 5 year goal for them, they are designing a whole new movement. Not just a replica movement using gear structures and ratios from the 60s; re-designing the gear ratios, bridges and gearing to make something completely new. In the meantime they do make the case, dial, hands, crown, pin-buckle, caseback and shock absorbing system and already make many of the parts of the movement, though not all.


Like I said, I love their watches and brand, but they really need to work on that attention to detail part.

Here is my thread detailing the glaring issues with my s500.

They ended up replacing the dial, hands, and bezel insert. It still wasn't great when I got it back (scratches to the metal date window surround, the day/date never lined up, and lots of dust under the crystal).

https://www.watchuseek.com/forum.php#/topics/4522475?page=1


----------



## Jrsaleh

G26okie said:


> johnnmiller1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can pretty much quash that. My good friend works for Bremont and was trained in the UK at their factory, though he now works in the (week old) Bremont boutique in Melbourne. He has told me about their hand finishing, including the (painting?) of the dials.
> 
> I went to the Boutique opening last week and they showed us video of the step-by-step manufacture of the hands, dials and cases and the finishing of the movements, all of which my friend has previously told me about.
> 
> I would easily put $100 as a bet that they are not printed or manufactured in China in any way. Nick English, one of the two owners of the company was there and he chatted on about how they started manufacturing aircraft parts before making watches. He is absolutely OBSESSED with detail (and a nice guy as well). He was telling me about all the iterations that they went through with my s301 before they decided on the final dial layout, he is hands-on with the design team the whole way through. He was telling us about all the stages they are going with to produce the watch entirely in house. It is a 5 year goal for them, they are designing a whole new movement. Not just a replica movement using gear structures and ratios from the 60s; re-designing the gear ratios, bridges and gearing to make something completely new. In the meantime they do make the case, dial, hands, crown, pin-buckle, caseback and shock absorbing system and already make many of the parts of the movement, though not all.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, I love their watches and brand, but they really need to work on that attention to detail part.
> 
> Here is my thread detailing the glaring issues with my s500.
> 
> They ended up replacing the dial, hands, and bezel insert. It still wasn't great when I got it back (scratches to the metal date window surround, the day/date never lined up, and lots of dust under the crystal).
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/forum.php#/topics/4522475?page=1
Click to expand...

Every company makes a dud once in a while. Every single one. It's how they deal with it that defines them. I just read your thread, thanks for sharing. It looked like upon your last post, you were very happy with their work. Sorry it didn't end up that way.


----------



## johnnmiller1

I need to make an addition to my previous post. I had a chat to my friend about the contents of this thread and he was comically surprised. There are a few things that take Bremont from the realm of being a good watch to a great watch, and one that is worth its cost: 

1. Bremont do not use 316L stainless steel. They might look like stainless but they are actually made from a proprietary mix of titanium and steel (hence the darker colour) based on a tool steel that the Giles' developed when they and their father were machining aeroplane parts, well before they were making watches. It is a steel amalgam that is harder and more corrosion resistant than standard steel (including Rolex's 904L) which is THEN surface hardened, making it harder still. NO other watches use this steel. 

2. The sand-coloured lume on the s301 and s501 is a proprietary lume mixed for the company by CW Tritec (makers of Superluminova). It took Bremont several years to get it right. That is why it glows longer and more brightly compared to other retro-coloured lume. (which I can definitely attest to, having had the s301 and the heritage Rail and Seamaster 300 Omega re-issues, both of which had pretty poor lume in comparison to the Bremont. 

3. They just bought another 15 million pound C&C machine to mill cases before they are hand finished, which was a huge financial gamble on their part. 

4. Dial work for lume application is hand-done on the printed indicies watches, which might account for the slight differences discussed earlier, as is the finishing work on the movement parts. 

What amazes me is that Bremont do not market discussing any of the above points (that I know about). They are content to let the watches speak for themselves. I respect that a lot, aviation themed or not.


----------



## Vig2000

johnnmiller1 said:


> I need to make an addition to my previous post. I had a chat to my friend about the contents of this thread and he was comically surprised. There are a few things that take Bremont from the realm of being a good watch to a great watch, and one that is worth its cost:
> 
> 1. Bremont do not use 316L stainless steel. They might look like stainless but they are actually made from a proprietary mix of titanium and steel (hence the darker colour) based on a tool steel that the Giles' developed when they and their father were machining aeroplane parts, well before they were making watches. It is a steel amalgam that is harder and more corrosion resistant than standard steel (including Rolex's 904L) which is THEN surface hardened, making it harder still. NO other watches use this steel.
> 
> 2. The sand-coloured lume on the s301 and s501 is a proprietary lume mixed for the company by CW Tritec (makers of Superluminova). It took Bremont several years to get it right. That is why it glows longer and more brightly compared to other retro-coloured lume. (which I can definitely attest to, having had the s301 and the heritage Rail and Seamaster 300 Omega re-issues, both of which had pretty poor lume in comparison to the Bremont.
> 
> 3. They just bought another 15 million pound C&C machine to mill cases before they are hand finished, which was a huge financial gamble on their part.
> 
> 4. Dial work for lume application is hand-done on the printed indicies watches, which might account for the slight differences discussed earlier, as is the finishing work on the movement parts.
> 
> What amazes me is that Bremont do not market discussing any of the above points (that I know about). They are content to let the watches speak for themselves. I respect that a lot, aviation themed or not.


I would call that more odd than amazing. For a brand that touts its technological prowess, why not call further attention on these achievements, especially points one and two? Sure, the watches can speak for themselves, but they literally cannot tell you about the higher end steel alloy they're made of or the story behind the lume. If what you are saying is true, then Bremont fans, being who they are, would surely appreciate this additional tech that Bremont put into their watches, so why not tout these claims? With respect to the first claim for example, it just seems strange not to mention something so seemingly and materially relevant.

By the way, not calling you a liar in any sense, but obviously since anyone can say anything online, a disservice would be committed by accepting what you're saying at face value. It would definitely be nice if Bremont can actually confirm your points above since I cannot find anything lending credence to your claims, which doesn't mean what you're saying is untrue, but this really needs to come straight from the source.


----------



## john.6

johnnmiller1 said:


> I need to make an addition to my previous post. I had a chat to my friend about the contents of this thread and he was comically surprised. There are a few things that take Bremont from the realm of being a good watch to a great watch, and one that is worth its cost:
> 
> 1. Bremont do not use 316L stainless steel. They might look like stainless but they are actually made from a proprietary mix of titanium and steel (hence the darker colour) based on a tool steel that the Giles' developed when they and their father were machining aeroplane parts, well before they were making watches. It is a steel amalgam that is harder and more corrosion resistant than standard steel (including Rolex's 904L) which is THEN surface hardened, making it harder still. NO other watches use this steel.
> 
> 2. The sand-coloured lume on the s301 and s501 is a proprietary lume mixed for the company by CW Tritec (makers of Superluminova). It took Bremont several years to get it right. That is why it glows longer and more brightly compared to other retro-coloured lume. (which I can definitely attest to, having had the s301 and the heritage Rail and Seamaster 300 Omega re-issues, both of which had pretty poor lume in comparison to the Bremont.
> 
> 3. They just bought another 15 million pound C&C machine to mill cases before they are hand finished, which was a huge financial gamble on their part.
> 
> 4. Dial work for lume application is hand-done on the printed indicies watches, which might account for the slight differences discussed earlier, as is the finishing work on the movement parts.
> 
> What amazes me is that Bremont do not market discussing any of the above points (that I know about). They are content to let the watches speak for themselves. I respect that a lot, aviation themed or not.


The Bremont website states cases made from Stainless steel or Titanium, nothing about some devilish concoction of both, and lets face it watch companies will always boast of something that makes them stand out from the crowd as they did with the Bremont Boeing Model 1 (manufactured from Custom 465® Stainless Steel) , if it were true that is.


----------



## johnnmiller1

I will see if I can get a formal email from Bremont and then I'll post it on here.



Vig2000 said:


> I would call that more odd than amazing. For a brand that touts its technological prowess, why not call further attention on these achievements, especially points one and two? Sure, the watches can speak for themselves, but they literally cannot tell you about the higher end steel alloy they're made of or the story behind the lume. If what you are saying is true, then Bremont fans, being who they are, would surely appreciate this additional tech that Bremont put into their watches, so why not tout these claims? With respect to the first claim for example, it just seems strange not to mention something so seemingly and materially relevant.
> 
> By the way, not calling you a liar in any sense, but obviously since anyone can say anything online, a disservice would be committed by accepting what you're saying at face value. It would definitely be nice if Bremont can actually confirm your points above since I cannot find anything lending credence to your claims, which doesn't mean what you're saying is untrue, but this really needs to come straight from the source.


----------



## johnnmiller1

Righto, I just got an email back from Bremont. There was a bit of personal stuff in it so I won't copy it in directly. However, here is the link to the custom 465 stainless and datasheet developed and used by Bremont - now marketed as a product by Cartech. It is far superior to standard 316L.

Here is an excerpt from the email:

"Here is a few links about the "custom465 steel" its quite dense reading but very informative. My understanding is that the steel is heat annealed for hardness and then there is a chemical hardness treatment." That is to say that the steel is tempered for hardness initially, then chemically surface hardened.

https://www.cartech.com/en/alloy-te...inability-project-70-and-custom-465-stainless

https://www.spacematdb.com/spacemat/manudatasheets/custom465.pdf

Here is an excerpt from the email to me:

"As for the Lume:
It is a blend of super-luminova that we tinted ourselves for a nice patina look. My understanding is that it was not just a bought in product."

As I said, great product, great brand. I dig it.


----------



## johnnmiller1

Righto, I just got an email back from Bremont. There was a bit of personal stuff in it so I won't copy it in directly. However, here is the link to the custom 465 stainless and datasheet developed and used by Bremont - now marketed as a product by Cartech. It is far superior to standard 316L.

Here is an excerpt from the email:

"Here is a few links about the "custom465 steel" its quite dense reading but very informative. My understanding is that the steel is heat annealed for hardness and then there is a chemical hardness treatment." That is to say that the steel is tempered for hardness initially, then chemically surface hardened.

https://www.cartech.com/en/alloy-te...inability-project-70-and-custom-465-stainless

https://www.spacematdb.com/spacemat/manudatasheets/custom465.pdf

Here is an excerpt from the email to me:

"As for the Lume:
It is a blend of super-luminova that we tinted ourselves for a nice patina look. My understanding is that it was not just a bought in product."

As I said, great product, great brand. I dig it.


----------



## Wooden_spoon

That’s pretty cool and they should advertise that on their site. Backs up their claims of toughness. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mayah110

Really like their new line that they made for/with the MoD. Wish I could afford one.


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## Michael Day

Alysandir said:


> So I'm just going to throw out my $0.03 (adjusted for inflation). I've said this is in other posts about Bremont, so I ask forgiveness from the long-timers who've heard this before.
> 
> *On the subject of "fake" heritage:*
> 
> There's really two ways to look at this:
> 
> 1) *Does anyone really buy a watch because of it's heritage?* Seriously, show of hands? "Well, you see, I previously hadn't considered Breguet as a brand, but the *heritage* - oh my word, the heritage - really swayed my opinion." Really, people? So Bremont is a terrible watch because it has no heritage...but a company like...oh, let's say Breitling...whose heritage includes being bought by Sicura for basically the trademark and dies, and having elements sold to Ollech & Wajs...that's a heritage beyond reproach apparently. (According to Federico, it's a better brand than Rolex.) Or how about Blancpain - another brand I have a soft spot for - having traded hands several times and yet can still trace a fairly crooked line back to the original family? And that doesn't even count the fact that they are a marque under Swatch Group just like Breguet and Omega...similar to how Vacheron Constantin, ALS, Cartier, Piaget, IWC, JLC, and many more, are currently owned by Richemont. This all counts as unreproachable heritage? Neat.
> 
> 2) *The Bremont story is fake and cheesy*. Well, for a fake story, the brothers really put a lot of effort into it to making it believable, including killing their father Euan in a tragic air accident in 1995. We know this happened because the official AAIB report is still available on the internet (start here: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=18870).
> 
> And if you ever meet Nick English - his son and one of the co-founders of Bremont - he still has physical problems dating back to the crash. His brother Giles? He was involved in a similar crash in 2013 (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391522/Breton-Watch-millionaire-pilot-Giles-English-lost-power-crashed-vintage-plane.html.
> 
> These guys are aviators from a family that owns their own aircraft and put on air shows up until their father died. Now...did the story about landing at a Monsieur Bremont's farm really happen? Who knows? But enough of their "story" can be proven true that there's no reason to think they are lying about it. If you ever get a chance to meet these guys, they've got this sort of chill, "we've always had money so we've got nothing to prove" air about them, and they're basically doing this (making watches) because, "Hey, why not? We like watches. Don't you like watches?" They don't care if you think they're a couple of goof-balls with a cheesy story. (It also doesn't hurt that the Bremont Winery just happens to be in the region of France where they originally said they crashed (although in later accounts, they no longer disclose the region).
> 
> *On the subject of being overpriced:*
> 
> This is another one of those where, for reasons I can only speculate, gets trundled out for some brands and not for others. So Bremont uses ETA/Valjoux movements. Okay. So does Breitling; and no one called those watches overpriced, even though they happened to be in pretty much the same price point as Bremont. IWC as well uses ETA/Valjoux for their lower-end offerings. Tudor did up until a couple years ago, and they are a forum darling, to the point where many Tudor aficionados swear by the old ETA Tudors vs the thicker in-house movement.
> 
> But I digress...this was supposed to be about the overall value proposition of Bremont. True, their residual value for the non-LEs generally stinks, but you should at least know what you're getting for your money, right?
> 
> - *Some of the hardest steel in the industry*. 2000 Vickers, actually. Fun fact: the steel is so hard, they cannot actually refinish it. As someone mentioned above, they just replace that component of the case if it gets too badly messed up.
> 
> - *"Trip-tick" cases*. Oh yeah...you did know almost all of their watches come with a three part case - versus a monolithic case - so that individual parts of it can be replaced, right? I mean, sure, it also looks cool and keeps their watches from looking slab-sided, but there's actually a reason for the three-part case.
> 
> - *Anti-shock mounts*. This one makes me laugh, because a frequent criticism I've heard directed at Bremont is that their cases are "too big," both in thickness and diameter, because they've "bought into the fad of big watches." Uh, no, not exactly. You see, if you turn over a Bremont watch, in most models you'll see a little flash of red or blue peeking out at you from three locations just along the edge of the rear crystal. You might find yourself wondering what that is. Well, wonder no longer: it's a movement mount. You see, the entire movement floats inside the case on anti-shock mounts. The. Entire. Movement. That's why the cases are oversized, to give it space to vibrate from shocks without it banging into anything.
> 
> View attachment 13999301
> 
> 
> - *Anti-reflective coating*. There's two ways to approach this: if you're Rolex you say to heck with AR coating (except under the cyclops) because you don't want the crystal show spots where the AR has worn away. Or if you're Bremont, you put seven bloody layers on both sides of the crystal and dare people to try to wear it down to bare crystal through normal use.
> 
> - *Temperature-resistant oils*. They don't do this for all of their models (I don't think, at least) but for a couple - notable the Terra Nova line - they use oils that have higher resistance to heat and cold. Because you might find yourself in Antarctica. Or parts of Canada.
> 
> - *They give a crapton of money away*. Certainly Bremont has made no bones about wanting to establish a manufactory in Henley-on-Thames, and that takes money. But those "ridiculously overpriced" LEs people complain about? Every single one of them was done in conjunction with donations to a charitable historical preservation cause. Yeah, I know other brands do this too. Rolex is a charitable trust, for crying out loud. But I wager most people didn't know that Bremont wasn't pocketing the money from those crazy-expensive LEs, which BTW, have held on to their value, if not appreciated in value. Good luck finding a complete set at less than MSRP.
> 
> So, does this all mean that their watches *aren't* overpriced? No, of course not; what watch *isn't* truly overpriced nowadays? But it's not like Bremont outsources this stuff to China and slaps their name on it. They may use off-the-shelf ebauches that they tend finish themselves and upgrade a few bits, but everything else they make in England.
> 
> Look, if you are of the opinion that Bremont is a crap brand, I'm not going to tell you different. Everyone needs to value what they need to value. But having had many conversations with Nick, and a couple with Giles, I can attest that either they are the real deal or they are an amazing pair of actors. They love watches. They have no illusions that they will never be a big deal. They'll tell you they needed something to do after walking away from the air show business and this was one thing that their wives would go along with. They want to enjoy the ride. They want to bring watch manufacturing back to England. Selling watches gives them an excuse to travel and see the world. They admire the heck out of Rolex and want to make tool watches the way Rolex used to be. They're legitimately likable fellows who'll talk watches or industry with anyone who wants to have a conversation. And yes, I hope they success in their attempt to make something of Bremont. If that makes me a dummy, then so be it.
> 
> Regards,
> Alysandir


*1) Does anyone really buy a watch because of it's heritage? *
Perhaps not, but certainly I will "not buy a watch" because of a trivial aspect of the watch. Isn't that something we all make choices on? How many posts have been written about great watches with one trivial item that stops a person from buying. And to illustrate the importance and significance of "history" look no further than the Omega Speedmaster Professional. (Mind you, Omega claiming other Speedmaster watches as "Moonwatch" is far more irritating than anything Bremont do.)

*2) The Bremont story is fake and cheesy.*
There is no doubt about what you have said here, but Bremond as a brand and as a watch do not have this history. By putting their watches alongside and in historical images and video the implication being infered is that the watch was there as well. In fact, it was not.

Personally I like their watches. I do believe that the pricing is a little high for a brand still aiming to a higher level of acceptance and reputation. This is not a significant amount though and would not stop me buying one. It would and does stop others though. The history side won't stop me from buying either but I think it's a fals chase for the brand. They are starting to build a real association with the services and should trade on that. So, while I personally might own a Bremont one day, I can see how they are shooting themselves in the foot for some buyers.


----------



## johnnmiller1

Fair enough, I have nothing to say about the aviation theme of Bremont watches or any sense of history. They haven't been around nearly as long as many other Swiss and Japanese watch companies. I love how they look and they do make a fantastic, beautifully tooled and finished watch that not only looks great but is amazingly robust. They also have a great deal of hand finishing that they never over-emphasise (I have a few Grand Seikos with Zaratsu polishing). That for me is easily worth the 5K that I paid Australian for mine.


----------



## john.6

johnnmiller1 said:


> Righto, I just got an email back from Bremont. There was a bit of personal stuff in it so I won't copy it in directly. However, here is the link to the custom 465 stainless and datasheet developed and used by Bremont - now marketed as a product by Cartech. It is far superior to standard 316L.
> 
> Here is an excerpt from the email:
> 
> "Here is a few links about the "custom465 steel" its quite dense reading but very informative. My understanding is that the steel is heat annealed for hardness and then there is a chemical hardness treatment." That is to say that the steel is tempered for hardness initially, then chemically surface hardened.
> 
> https://www.cartech.com/en/alloy-te...inability-project-70-and-custom-465-stainless
> 
> https://www.spacematdb.com/spacemat/manudatasheets/custom465.pdf
> 
> Here is an excerpt from the email to me:
> 
> "As for the Lume:
> It is a blend of super-luminova that we tinted ourselves for a nice patina look. My understanding is that it was not just a bought in product."
> 
> As I said, great product, great brand. I dig it.


Custom 456 stainless 
U.S. Patent Number 5,681,528
Patent number: 5681528
Type: Grant 
Filed: Sep 25, 1995
Date of Patent: Oct 28, 1997
Assignee: CRS Holdings, Inc. (Wilmington, DE) 
Inventors: James W. Martin (Sinking Spring, PA), Theodore Kosa (Reading, PA), Bradford A. Dulmaine (Muhlenberg, PA)

Not developed, invented by or sold by Bremont to anyone, it's an original invention of CRS Holdings.
I would love to see the part of the email that you received from Bremont stating that they invented "Custom 456 stainless" seven years before the creation of the company in 2002

These are great watches, but outlandish statements that are easily proven to be false doesn't do the brand any favors, and this is another that gives ammo to the critics of Bremont.


----------



## Vig2000

johnnmiller1 said:


> I need to make an addition to my previous post. I had a chat to my friend about the contents of this thread and he was comically surprised. There are a few things that take Bremont from the realm of being a good watch to a great watch, and one that is worth its cost:
> 
> 1. Bremont do not use 316L stainless steel. They might look like stainless but they are actually made from a proprietary mix of titanium and steel (hence the darker colour) based on a tool steel that the Giles' developed when they and their father were machining aeroplane parts, well before they were making watches. It is a steel amalgam that is harder and more corrosion resistant than standard steel (including Rolex's 904L) which is THEN surface hardened, making it harder still. NO other watches use this steel.
> 
> What amazes me is that Bremont do not market discussing any of the above points (that I know about). They are content to let the watches speak for themselves. I respect that a lot, aviation themed or not.





johnnmiller1 said:


> Righto, I just got an email back from Bremont. There was a bit of personal stuff in it so I won't copy it in directly. However, here is the link to the custom 465 stainless and datasheet developed and used by Bremont - now marketed as a product by Cartech. It is far superior to standard 316L.
> 
> Here is an excerpt from the email:
> 
> "Here is a few links about the "custom465 steel" its quite dense reading but very informative. My understanding is that the steel is heat annealed for hardness and then there is a chemical hardness treatment." That is to say that the steel is tempered for hardness initially, then chemically surface hardened.
> 
> https://www.cartech.com/en/alloy-te...inability-project-70-and-custom-465-stainless
> 
> https://www.spacematdb.com/spacemat/manudatasheets/custom465.pdf
> 
> Here is an excerpt from the email to me:
> 
> "As for the Lume:
> It is a blend of super-luminova that we tinted ourselves for a nice patina look. My understanding is that it was not just a bought in product."
> 
> As I said, great product, great brand. I dig it.





john.6 said:


> Custom 456 stainless
> U.S. Patent Number 5,681,528
> Patent number: 5681528
> Type: Grant
> Filed: Sep 25, 1995
> Date of Patent: Oct 28, 1997
> Assignee: CRS Holdings, Inc. (Wilmington, DE)
> Inventors: James W. Martin (Sinking Spring, PA), Theodore Kosa (Reading, PA), Bradford A. Dulmaine (Muhlenberg, PA)
> 
> Not developed, invented by or sold by Bremont to anyone, it's an original invention of CRS Holdings.
> I would love to see the part of the email that you received from Bremont stating that they invented "Custom 456 stainless" seven years before the creation of the company in 2002
> 
> These are great watches, but outlandish statements that are easily proven to be false doesn't do the brand any favors, and this is another that gives ammo to the critics of Bremont.


Right and exactly, I was going to debunk johnnmiller1's claim as posted above, but you beat me to it. I asked the poster above for proof directly from Bremont since I knew what he was saying was 100% false, so he comes with some seemingly random information about Custom 465 steel, which was in no way developed or invented by Bremont as correctly pointed out in john.6's factually astute post above. johnnmiller1 claims that Bremont uses "a proprietary mix of titanium and steel" that was "based on a tool steel that the Giles' developed." For the record, Bremont has never invented any sort of propriety metal as johnnmiller1 falsely claims. And aside from the his post being blatantly false, it goes beyond that since he makes it sound as if this magical "steel amalgam" that was supposedly invented by Bremont is used in _all_ of Bremont's watches. johnnmiller1 says, "Bremont do not use 316L stainless steel." No. Just no. Like most of the watch industry, Bremont uses 316L steel to make their steel watches. In fact, here's a post from Bremont's official Twitter page explicitly confirming as such:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1094230280548876288. What is proprietary, however, is the surface hardening process that Bremont uses, which is known as B-EBE2000. That, Bremont gets credit for. But the actual steel used is most definitely not proprietary in any sense, but good ol' fashioned 316L. Now, they do use Custom 465 steel on their Boeing models, but again, Custom 465 is not at all Bremont's proprietary steel.

And yes, it is the spreading of this false information that most certainly gives Bremont detractors fuel to criticize the brand. It's a shame because such false information is either rooted in outright lies or from people who have zero clue of what they're talking about, so they're simply speaking out of their you know what.


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## Jrsaleh

When you’re a fan of something, you downplay it unless you’re 100% sure about something. I am a huge bremont fan, and i agree that false statements add fuel to the fire. Everyone should get in the habit of checking their facts. 

On another bremont note, i would like to offer that the idea of criticism for “fake heritage” is just another form of snobbery and exclusion. Bremont cannot be in the club because they didn’t supply watches to the german airforce in ww2? That’s perfectly ok with me. “Heritage” is a surrogate for money and exclusivity, things i am happier not to flaunt.


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## Gerry.GEG

Good point, every company has to start somewhere and when one makes a mistake - one needs to correct it, apologize and move the hell on. 

Then, don't do it again


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## jalquiza

Because marketing works and (the perception of) prestige is (IMO, overly) valued.


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## J Fix

Figured I'd add to the thread. Just got a Bremont U-2/51 DLC and I'm absolutely loving it. I have a couple of different watches that I suppose would be considered heritage watches, but that certainly didn't dissuade me from picking up a Bremont. Bottom line is that U-2 has features that no other company has and the look and feel of the watch is just plain awesome. I don't see myself ever flipping this one.


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## J Fix

.


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## Watchaficionado5

I have 2 and am very happy with them!


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## rborden

Does anyone remember Kobold watches? Michael Kobold and his watches were a flash in the pan! Kobold watches started out sub 1k and moved quickly to 5-10k! Way over priced for what you got! Mediocre watch parts put together with a cool name and adventure selling point and presto, selling watches at an insane price point. Where is Kobold today? See my point!
Bremont, on the other hand, is building on a rich tradition of British watch making prior to WWII. I can count on one hand the British owned watch companies and Bremont is at the top of the list. They produce high quality watches for real people in real jobs! My Kobold watch broke on day 2 of wearing it! No other watch I have ever owned at the $1000 - $10,000 price point has ever crapped out on day two. Bad luck, maybe. But I doubt it. I have my first Bremont being delivered tomorrow. I will post an honest and fair assessment of this watch. There are lovers and haters of many brands, I am neither. I love watches and form my opinion only after owning and living with the watch everyday on my wrist. 
Keep you posted on my Bremont ALT1-Z Zulu. More to come!


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## rborden

Amen brother! However, I believe Bremont uses 9 layers of anti-reflective coating, not 7 as you stated.
https://us.bremont.com/pages/about-values-technology-us


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## gyang333

rborden said:


> Bremont, on the other hand, is building on a rich tradition of British watch making prior to WWII.


They were founded in 2002...


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## trueblueswiss

gyang333 said:


> They were founded in 2002...


I think the word you missed was building.... as in there has been a rich British watch industry in the past that all but ceased. Bremont has been at the forefront at revitalising a bygone era of manufacturing watches in the UK.


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## rborden

Yes there were founded in 2002, however, the English brother’s have stated they want to bring back British watch making. I say good for them!


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## rborden

Thank you for Your point of clarification! Well said!


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## FSU92grad

rborden said:


> Yes there were founded in 2002, however, the English brother's have stated they want to bring back British watch making. I say good for them!


I enjoy their watches immensely....


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## parsig9

I like them but think the MB line falls in with Damasko more than Breitling or IWC and should be Damasko-ish in price too.


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## Maximu5

A lot of interesting discussion in here. I've owned a MB III military edition for 4 years now and absolutely love it. It's taken a beating and I don't shy away from wearing it knowing how good they are at replacing bezels and other parts in a standard service.
Being a military edition I received quite a good price with the other members of my unit, I'm not sure if I would have originally purchased it at full retail over some of the other watches I've picked up since. 1 Rado, 3 Omegas, 1 Seiko and 2 Stowas. The resale on most of them would probably be terrible, apart from my old Speedmaster, people seem to go nuts for the old tritium models down my way these days. I tend to purchase based on what I love and believe I'm going to keep for the rest of my life. 
Having said all of that, my experience with the MBIII has been very positive and I would consider buying another one second hand or possibly new if it were to tickle my fancy. Their customer service has been fantastic. From my experience Omega could learn a lot from them in that respect. My 2¢


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## MLsims

I love hearing the opinions of those who have owned Bremont watches for a long time. Due to some of the controversy around their movements, I've always kept my distance. I'll keep a closer eye on them in the future.


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## yankeexpress

MLsims said:


> I love hearing the opinions of those who have owned Bremont watches for a long time. Due to some of the controversy around their movements, I've always kept my distance. I'll keep a closer eye on them in the future.


Don't have a dog in this mess, but why would someone who likes the brand resurrect this awful thread?


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## Mr.Jones82

yankeexpress said:


> Don't have a dog in this mess, but why would someone who likes the brand resurrect this awful thread?


That actually did make me laugh out loud pretty hard because I was thinking the same exact thing. Hahaha


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## Vig2000

yankeexpress said:


> Don't have a dog in this mess, but why would someone who likes the brand resurrect this awful thread?


Simple, just look at his post count and history with a bunch of BS, non-substantive posts, so clearly a speed poster and wanted to hit his 100. He did it, so congrats?


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## tophotdog

1) History- seems forced and its heritage feels made up. Monsieur Bremont - the farmer who saved the English brothers lives - is conspicuous in his absence and no one seems to know who or where he is or what he looks like for that matter. The silence is deafening.

2) Value - Overpriced for what they are. To be fair, this is subjective especially to those who say they do not care about resell value as the watch will be never be resold as long as they are alive and will be heirloom after they are long gone. I guess that makes sense but I still wouldn't pay USD10,000 for a skx that I swear not to resell. 

3) Trust - Founders interview after in-house-movement-gate makes them look disingenuous.

4) Gimmicks - Use of ancient relics to mark up prices on limited editions. (Wright Flyer costs more than a Patek because you get a piece of lint from the scaffolding of the planes wings) 

5) Marketing - Cheesy marketing due to sweeping epic soundtracks. (This is subjective as those who enjoy Celine Dion may not agree with me - no offence to Celine Dion - Titanic soundtrack was epic..)

6) Relationship damage - my wife will divorce me if I told her I bought a Bremont over a Rolex, Patek, JLC etc. To be fair if I buy another new watch I think my relationship will suffer and I will be permanently sleeping in the guest bedroom. Better than getting divorced I guess.

7) OverCrowded Market- IWC and Breitling are already well entrenched into the Luxury Pilots Watch business. Together they provide loads of "limited editions" (many which do not even sell out mind you) and push a huge number of SKU's onto the market every year. Does Bremonts existence provide a product that is not offered by its competitors? You can say triplock case, but honestly who cares? 

8) Respect - My WIS friends will disown me if I told them I bought one. Not that I care what others think because all that matters is my personal enjoyment. But some people buy for respect and cool factor. Not me though. I promise.

Having said this, I do respect the founders for starting up a watch brand and to have gotten this far.


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## tophotdog

mods delete double post


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## thewatchidiot

Own a u2/51 jet and find the watch comfortable beautiful and well made. I’ve read about great watches with terrible service. Does a quality company give bad service. Yes indeed. Would most buy the brand again? I have an issue so needed service. Bremont paid to ship it to ny then informed me it has to go to England for service. I got an email from Bremont that said the watch was received, analyzed and in line for service. That was 1 week from when ny said they will have to ship it overseas. That is outstanding communication and shipping. That is what a top notch customer friendly company does. I’m highly impressed with Bremont. There’s an old saying: you don’t know what service means until you need it. Never be fooled by promises cause talk is cheap!


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## WallyGreenblatt

Bremont has (almost) not history (compared with Rolex et al.) but tells a great story, sharp focus, high quality watches - thumbs up!


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## watchbreather2

Yeah I cant understand all the hate on Bremont watches,they are high quality timepieces and the base models are reasonably priced


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## Vig2000

watchbreather2 said:


> Yeah I cant understand all the hate on Bremont watches,they are high quality timepieces and the base models are reasonably priced


Clearly, you're yet another speed poster looking to make your hundred. If you even skimmed this thread, there would be no reason to ask this question. Well, either a speed poster or a troll. If you're are a troll, best not to feed you and let you starve instead.


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## Delirious

There is a lot of debate about the history in this thread but I’ve seen many interviews with the founders and in one they were asked this very question. Their response was that they had looked at buying an historic watch name or company and using that but they decided to start afresh and not be bound or even guided on something that already had a history and might dictate the style or design cues for the watches. I agree with them to be honest. There are plenty of old discontinued watch brands that they could have revived but in reality would that give them any more history than today?

Also on the movement issue over the claim of an in-house movement when it wasn’t fully, well, they are not the only brand who have made this mistake. Brands with 150 years of “history” such as Tag Heuer all fell foul to this and you’d expect much more from a Swiss watch house with all that history. I think the Bremont founders learnt their lesson on that one. I’m not so sure of others.

Plenty of other valid arguements on here as to why they make good watches so I won’t repeat. However, in the end just like what you like an be happy about. We don’t all have the same tastes and that is a good thing. Personally I love the brand and it really resonates with me but if it doesn’t with others well no big deal.

Cheers,
Delirious.


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## Delirious

There is a lot of debate about the history in this thread but I’ve seen many interviews with the founders and in one they were asked this very question. Their response was that they had looked at buying an historic watch name or company and using that but they decided to start afresh and not be bound or even guided on something that already had a history and might dictate the style or design cues for the watches. I agree with them to be honest. There are plenty of old discontinued watch brands that they could have revived but in reality would that give them any more history than today?

Also on the movement issue over the claim of an in-house movement when it wasn’t fully, well, they are not the only brand who have made this mistake. Brands with 150 years of “history” such as Tag Heuer all fell foul to this and you’d expect much more from a Swiss watch house with all that history. I think the Bremont founders learnt their lesson on that one. I’m not so sure of others.

Plenty of other valid arguements on here as to why they make good watches so I won’t repeat. However, in the end just like what you like an be happy about. We don’t all have the same tastes and that is a good thing. Personally I love the brand and it really resonates with me but if it doesn’t with others well no big deal.

Cheers,
Delirious.


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## Jrsaleh

Begging moderators to shut this thread down because it is tired, negative, redundant and also repetitive


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## ocieb

not sure why, i find them very appealing in terms of aesthetic. the idea that a watch brand needs heritage to be quality is not my jam.


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## Vig2000

ocieb said:


> not sure why, i find them very appealing in terms of aesthetic. the idea that a watch brand needs heritage to be quality is not my jam.


Geez, the speed posters have been out in full force lately.



Delirious said:


> Also on the movement issue over the claim of an in-house movement when it wasn't fully, well, they are not the only brand who have made this mistake.
> 
> Cheers,
> Delirious.


I would be inclined to fully agree if it was a mistake in earnest, except that it wasn't. Their in-house debacle was either an outright lie or incompetence. I mean, the movement was made by La Joux-Perret. The brothers obviously knew that. I understand that "in-house" has a wide variety of definitions, depending on who's being asked, but a central point of that definition that in no way should be up for debate is that the movement is developed exclusively by the brand. Outsourcing the development of the movement to a movement maker and then calling it in-house? No. Just no. Were the boys that naive, not realizing that an outsourced movement is the antithesis of in-house? If so, then that is 100% pure Grade A incompetence at best or if more ulterior motives were involved, then a blatant falsehood at worst.


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## Msweat000

Vig2000 said:


> watchbreather2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I cant understand all the hate on Bremont watches,they are high quality timepieces and the base models are reasonably priced
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly, you're yet another speed poster looking to make your hundred. If you even skimmed this thread, there would be no reason to ask this question. Well, either a speed poster or a troll. If you're are a troll, best not to feed you and let you starve instead.
Click to expand...

Speed poster here. You must be a speed reader, prone to make mistakes. I don't even see a question in the post that you couldn't even help yourself but to respond to. Explain yourself!


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## Vig2000

Msweat000 said:


> Speed poster here. You must be a speed reader, prone to make mistakes. I don't even see a question in the post that you couldn't even help yourself but to respond to. Explain yourself!


Well, at least you admit to it, so props to you on that. Actually, it's refreshing to see that you outted yourself since, by your very own admission, you've just given the mods the justification they need to delete your superfluous posts given that speed posting is expressly prohibited:



> Speed posting with the aim of reaching 100 posts with little additional contribution to the forum will result in access to the Sales Corner being removed. Superflous posts will be regarded as spam and deleted.


So thanks for calling yourself out!

And it is a public forum, so do you not realize that anyone can respond to anything? Swear to God that's allowed, so now you know. So yeah, just couldn't help myself, you hit the nail right on the head.

Okay, it's not a question but a comment, so let's amend to that? I hope that I've now explained myself to your satisfaction.

EDIT: 'nuff said:


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## Msweat000

Vig2000 said:


> Msweat000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speed poster here. You must be a speed reader, prone to make mistakes. I don't even see a question in the post that you couldn't even help yourself but to respond to. Explain yourself!
> 
> 
> 
> Well, at least you admit to it, so props to you on that. Actually, it's refreshing to see that you outted yourself since, by your very own admission, you've just given the mods the justification they need to delete your superfluous posts given that speed posting is expressly prohibited:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speed posting with the aim of reaching 100 posts with little additional contribution to the forum will result in access to the Sales Corner being removed. Superflous posts will be regarded as spam and deleted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So thanks for calling yourself out!
> 
> And it is a public forum, so do you not realize that anyone can respond to anything? Swear to God that's allowed, so now you know. So yeah, just couldn't help myself, you hit the nail right on the head.
> 
> Okay, it's not a question but a comment, so let's amend to that? I hope that I've now explained myself to your satisfaction.
> 
> EDIT: 'nuff said:
> 
> View attachment 14905809
Click to expand...

Hilarious! So because you aren't fluent in sarcasm, you've busted me real good! I'm devastated! I love that you copied and posted that info but failed to take notice that even been a member for 4 and half years. Not very speedy I guess! I commented because the world and this forum needs less people with your attitude. Based on the evidence you have supplied, the Mods have it covered so maybe your time would be better used policing a Facebook group or something like that?

I was brought to this thread because my buddy and I were in long discussions about a Bremont MB2, A damn beautiful watch, prior to his purchase of one. My worthwhile contributions in question here, but the earnest pursuit of a forum free of your type of negativity is worth the risk.


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## ErikPayton

I would agree with a buy pre-owned approach. The only issue is the pre-owned market for them is pretty limited. I went ahead and bought one brand new but, had been looking for a preowned one for months. That said, I bought one because I like their look and design knowing they werent very popular and a resale would probably not be worth it. That said, I only bought one.


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## SLuc18

ErikPayton said:


> I would agree with a buy pre-owned approach. The only issue is the pre-owned market for them is pretty limited. I went ahead and bought one brand new but, had been looking for a preowned one for months. That said, I bought one because I like their look and design knowing they werent very popular and a resale would probably not be worth it. That said, I only bought one.


Obvious troll.

Mods - PLEASE close this thread!


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## Cpt Canuck

Overpriced

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


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## J Fix

So, I've owned my U2/51 for about 10 months now. Overall, I still really enjoy the look of the watch (specifically the DLC Coating, the twin crowns, and the aged look of the dial/hands). I haven't had any real issues with mine. My only complaint is with the beefy leather band. First, the 'Regular' size band barely fits my 7" wrist (I should have gotten a 'Long'). Second, the band was driving into the left side of my wrist making it uncomfortable to wear. I had to bend the heck out of it a few times, but now it fits way more comfortably.

I'll freely admit that the lume is kind of weak, but I've had zero issues with the crowns. Maybe people are annoyed with their overt advertising or their attempt to create heritage, or maybe it's the lume or the crown...IDK. All I know is I'm keeping mine.


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## Mhcks

Honestly; pilots watches. I’m an ex military and commercial pilot. Not one of the watch manufacturers out there appreciate that not one pilot on the planet uses his multi gizmo push button timer for anything other than telling the time.
All modern civilian and military aircraft have a plethora of timers installed in the aircraft systems... and these make the silly buttons on these watches pointless.. seriously all we want is a watch with big numbers and a clear face... why are all watches black faced ... or white faced with gold hands which render them unreadable? .
It’s time manufactures asked pilots what they actually want in a watch ... Breightling... ugh... the current Pilot watch is a marketing gimmick for frequent flyers and the super rich who just need to impress their mates ... they are ghastly. I challenge someone to make a watch of quality with a white face, black hands and black numbers... with no stupid stopwatch which we never use anyway!


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## Avo

Mhcks said:


> I challenge someone to make a watch of quality with a white face, black hands and black numbers... with no stupid stopwatch which we never use anyway!


Try Damasko. 
https://www.watchmann.com/damaskowatches.php


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## 1165dvd

Mhcks said:


> Honestly; pilots watches. I'm an ex military and commercial pilot. Not one of the watch manufacturers out there appreciate that not one pilot on the planet uses his multi gizmo push button timer for anything other than telling the time.
> All modern civilian and military aircraft have a plethora of timers installed in the aircraft systems... and these make the silly buttons on these watches pointless.. seriously all we want is a watch with big numbers and a clear face... why are all watches black faced ... or white faced with gold hands which render them unreadable? .
> It's time manufactures asked pilots what they actually want in a watch ... Breightling... ugh... the current Pilot watch is a marketing gimmick for frequent flyers and the super rich who just need to impress their mates ... they are ghastly. I challenge someone to make a watch of quality with a white face, black hands and black numbers... with no stupid stopwatch which we never use anyway!


Kind of like this?









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kypt

People feel they ask too much for their watches given they use off the shelf movements.


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## emsmkivgolf

It’s been referenced a bunch here already but I think it’s the questionable history and fact they got caught with egg on their face about their in house movement. That being said, I personally like their watches. Brand history is not all that important to me as most watch companies have no real connection to the people who founded the brand many many years ago.


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## journeyforce

Mhcks said:


> I challenge someone to make a watch of quality with a white face, black hands and black numbers... with no stupid stopwatch which we never use anyway!


If you are looking for a white dial with black hands and black numbers then look to Fortis. Fortis makes a series of watches known as the B-42 collection that is easy to read.

Here is mine. It is a dial that appears white during the day but is in fact lumed so that at night the dial glows and very readable due to the black hands

As for Bremont. I like their stuff and have met Giles and company at my local AD. However the MSRP on most of the watches is high and competes price wise with Grand Seiko (which my AD also is an AD for) so I end up going towards the Grand Seiko display and buying one of those instead.


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## Tsee

Just like a few people mentioned in this thread. There are people who dislike anything you can think of which is totally fine and their valid opinion. 

To each their own!


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## Tsee

Just like a few people mentioned in this thread. There are people who dislike anything you can think of which is totally fine and their valid opinion. 

To each their own!


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## bounce

I don't see how you can actually hate all Bremont watches, like any brand there are model I prefer to others, but I wouldn't say I hate any models.


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## Vinegar

British brand with a French name (despite the brothers being named English!)

Dodgy heroic back story

Dodgy claims about movements

Endless questionable 'partnerships' and 'special editions'

High cost

Nice cases though


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## shedlock2000

Despite the usual grumbling and protests, I've found this thread interesting and informative. My thanks to those who've weighed in with useful comments.

I've owned a Bremont Alt1-ZT/BK (ridiculous name, but better than Omega's reference number system) for about 4 years now. I originally bought it because my 16753 gave up the day before I drove from Alberta to Tahoe for a kayaking holiday. I purchased the piece from Topper in San Fran (or just outside). I did receive the usual discounts associated with AD purchase, and was happy with the price (though who wouldn't prefer to spend less). I bought it on the leather strap with a Bremont NATO - one of my dislikes of the brand is that either the aforementioned case-hardening (or material selection) affects the colouring of the case, and Bremont bracelets do not 'match'. As a bracelet groupie, this was nearly a deal breaker.

I wore the watch throughout my trip on the Bremont Velcro NATO strap thingy, which tugged at my girlfriends hair too much at night, and she banned me from wearing it again!



















The leather strap and buckle was comfortable, but the clasp irritated my wrist, so I swapped it for a traditional cheapo Zulu - on which it's lived mostly ever since (I've recently picked up a fake Tudor deployant from eBay for it after wearing the BBGMT on leather for a day or so and finding the clasp comfortable; this lets the watch sit flush on my wrist and lowers the profile).










The watch itself appears bullet proof, and is very resilient to all manner of abuse. I've worn it while lifting, splitting wood, painting, framing, and everything in-between.










After a long time trying to locate an hour wheel for my Rolex 1675, I gave up and sent it to RSC for servicing. Since it's return, the Bremont has been relegated - mostly because I like a bracelet and the 1675 is more comfortable. Until, that is, I started to do some wood splitting. The 1675 stopped one night for unknown reasons (it's been returned to RSC - no doubt for another 3 month sojourn) and I pulled out the Bremont again. It performed without missing a beat for two more days of splitting (by axe), followed by a day of banging in fence posts.

The watch remains my most accurate ever mechanical wrist watch (gaining less than 7 seconds in 270 days). This figure, however, is less declarative than it seems, and is likely a function of serendipitous chrono use. Nevertheless, the 7 second gain over that duration will do fine.

My issues with the watch are minor: it's a bit too big and won't fit nicely under a shirt cuff (especially on a NATO or Zulu); you can't get a matching bracelet; and the gmt function is tracking rather than travelling (as a traveller, this bugs me a lot - as does the ETA date-change annoyance with hours near midnight). I nearly swapped it out for the Endurance due it's having a bezel and matching bracelet, but the bezel isn't a 0-24 and the thing feels much chunkier with the bezel compared to the domed crystal.










My issues with the company are non-existent (other than they don't yet produce the watch I really want from them: a 40/41mm non-case hardened gmt, with matching bracelet, a lumed 0-24 external bezel and 0-60 roto-click rehaut, sword hands, black dial, and white plots). I like that they're trying to re-launch the British watch industry and are spending money trying to develop a truly in-house movement. I don't care for their aviation story because I couldn't care less about airplanes. I quite like the fact that the brothers still ride around in old Land Rovers and have a mechanical bent (as a diesel engineer and a Land Rover enthusiast, this appeals to me on both fronts). I don't really care about the resale value, though the Bremont has been up for sale since I bought the 1675 and hasn't yet sold (which tells me I'm wanting too much for it; I'm selling because I am a one watch guy, not a collector).

In comparison to other brands I've owned: it's probably better built and finished than my 1675 or 16753. It's finishing is better than the SMP300GMT I recently owned - and roughly on par with the 116710 I flipped for my 16753. It's been the most accurate automatic wrist watch I've ever owned, but not the most comfortable (that goes to the 1675). It's finished more nicely than the Tudor BBGMT I owned because of the awful slab sides of the watch case in between the lugs on the Tudor - (which is why it looks dreadful with a leather strap or NATO; however, the dial and handset of the BBGMT are en pointe).










I think that if this watch came with a matching bracelet I would likely never sell it. I would also say that were Bremont to come up with a titanium or stainless 40/42mm gmt (based on the S301) with 0-24 bezel, I'd buy one in an instant (they came close with the recent 7 peak thing they just released but dropped the wrong bezel on it).

But the sum of the discussion here is that people like different things. Which is as it should be. The backstory and promotional slips (or down-right lying, depending upon which side of the bed you exited) doesn't matter at all to me, where it might with some other person. For me what matters is that the watch is accurate, comfy, and has the complications I use daily. The Bremont is close enough on all of those - and I'd only move away for greater comfort through reduced size and a bracelet. My 1675 trumps it on comfort, but loses out on robustness and accuracy; the 116710 was too showy; and the SMP300GMT has a blue dial (I don't know what possessed me there!) - the BBGMT was probably the most uncomfortably balanced watch I've ever owned, though in almost every other way it was sublime (no date drama while I had it)!

TD;DR: I like mine, but it's not perfect. I don't care about the backstory - or any of the aviation tie-ins; but as a patriotic ex-pat, I support their endeavours to bring back British watchmaking. If they made my dream watch, I'd buy another in a heart beat. I think they're fairly priced in comparison to Omega, Breitling, IWC, etc. and won't lose sleep if I lose a bit on it (I've lost big coin on all of my watches - including my vintage pieces; tbh, if even if I give it away I'll lose less on it than I have on my 16753 and 16710)!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 1165dvd

Chopping wood with a mechanical watch. Bremont should be highlighting your story, not that Venom dude’s. You make a lot of valid points. Good stuff. 


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## shedlock2000

1165dvd said:


> Chopping wood with a mechanical watch. Bremont should be highlighting your story, not that Venom dude's. You make a lot of valid points. Good stuff.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha! I can't see them using me as a brand ambassador! I'm much too forthright with my opinions!

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## Dr4

Actually just got one in (an S300) Spitfire Diver and the quality/value appears really strong to me. Highlight is the blue sunray dial for sure.


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## bounce

Dr4 said:


> Actually just got one in (an S300) Spitfire Diver and the quality/value appears really strong to me. Highlight is the blue sunray dial for sure.


Couldn't agree more, top quality/value for money. I have just purchased the S500 with blue dial & its stunning.


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## samanator

I've let this go on just to see where it goes. Here are some of my rambling thoughts:
On the name story point, what would be so unbelievable? I have a childhood friend that has several older planes. They have problems and he has had to land in a few fields over the years. Nearly every one of those landings has a few stories. Bremont is a reasonably common name in France with over a quarter-million people having this as a surname according to Google. There is a good chance any town in France will have a couple of people named Bremont. France has a lot of wine and other spirits that sometimes enhance or color a story in our memory. My forum name comes from watching Saturday Night Live when Arnold was hosting and they had a skit called the Tooncinator. My brother started calling my dog Sam, Samanator. Since it was the first thing I could think of when I joined that was not taken it has become my online handle. My since gone dog Sam got her name because when I first brought her home Bewitched was the first thing on when I turned on the TV. Sam is the name of the Female lead character if you have never seen the show. I know these name stories are true, and have no reason to doubt the Bremont story. 

As far as the watches they are a bit unique as some have pointed out. You can tell a Bremont is a Bremont. Their AR has to be one of the best in the business. Some of the LE have fantastic resale. They are working to build the entire watch in their factories and you can see the progress. Some day they will get there. Like any brand, you either love, tolerate or hate them.

The great in-house thing. For me, I was more disgusted with HODINKEE acting like they discovered Watergate than what Bremont said. Fact is many long-established brands use borrowed or acquired technology they call their own. If you pay someone to design something for you do you not own it. Along those lines would you not go to a movement manufaturing company to help you design a movement? Do you think every movement is designed from scratch, and borrows nothing for other things that company designed? How many very high-end brands are using JLC movement designs that they now claim as theirs with a tweak or two? There where several brands making similar claims that were no more in-house than Bremont including a few elite ones. Tag bought Seiko technology and then modified it nearly 60% so it could be mass-produced. Again I thought HODINKEE looked like idiots for that whole blow up. They bought it so it's theirs and then changed it. Do you think most manufacturers or software companies invented half the stuff in their products? Omega bought co-axial technology from George Daniels and screwed it up the first try because they tried to do it cheaply and not in the manner George designed it. A few years later they implemented the three-level system as George intended and now have some of the best movements out there. Ariel Adams from A Blog to Watch shortly after this blow-up posted one of the best things he ever wrote suggesting new nomenclature including the now widely used term manufactured that seems to be common now throughout the industry. Very few brands can qualify for in-house. Thanks to Ariel we now have proper terminology.

Bremont can teach almost any industry how to do customer service. Right out of the box they have been better than anyone, and that has never really wavered. I had an issue with one and in less than two weeks it was back and fixed. I had great communication back and forth from them, they arranged the return shipping, and I got several gifts when it came back. On this point, they are the gold standard that everyone else needs to try to meet.

The last point is integrity and just good people. I posted about this a few years ago here, but I had a long bout in the hospital in 2017 due to a heart attack and then a complication with blood clots in my lungs. I was in the hospital for over five weeks. I've never had the chance to meet the English brothers in person. We had talked a bit with them when we first started this forum in email, but that was about it. About two and a half weeks into my hospital stay I get an email that I posted here from them wishing me well and thanking me for helping support the brand over the years. It had details that had to be from them. They even followed up later when I was home making sure I was OK. I know quite a few presidents of watch brands here in the US and nothing came from them. I think the English brothers have integrity and are just all-around good people. That does not mean you have to buy a watch from them unless you like the watch, but I personally will cut them some slack on the other things since I feel they try their best to do the right thing. No, I can't provide scientific data to support this, but why else would Customer Service be such a priority to a young brand? Look at how they support the military around the world. Some companies try to do the right thing in everything they do. I work for one and feel Bremont is also in this category. Things have gotten a bit too cynical, but I still believe that most people still try to do the right thing. I try to surround myself with those people.


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