# Damasko should use BGW9 lume - agree or disagree?



## JuicyFruit1983

First off, no disrespect to the brand. I think they're a mighty fine organisation and quite possibly may have one of their pieces to call my own one day, they look fantastic and from what I can tell they represent a very competitive option for their niche and price-point. I have spent a lot of time researching their watches. However. The sticking point for me and many others seems to be the lume, and in most cases i've seen, only the lume (everything else about them looks solid). At present the use of C1 on a tool watch designed for military grade performance and usefulness just seems... a little self-defeating. Now the only real excuse i am aware of is that C1 is a crisp white in daylight so it looks better. Until recently that was all good, but with BGW9 now being widely used, brighter and longer-lasting, and just as crisp and white in the daylight, surely it is high-time for a Damasko lume revolution? 

Lume may not be important to some, and in some styles of watches I can take it or leave it myself, but for a tool watch of this level of spec and corresponding cost I would say it was quite significant, and a big factor to consider when debating whether to make a purchase or not. From reading around I know I am not alone. The sort of people interested in these watches are often the sort that need to be able to read their watches at night, and some of these folk are sometimes put off by the use of C1 lume.

A DA47 with fully-lumed BGW9 dial and bezel that popped like a Tudor Pelagos and burned all through the night would inspire me to raise (or justify) the funds quicker and out-do several close-call competitors all at once. The dial would stay a crisp white, and in all reality after the initial burst of charge the lume wouldn't be so bright as to offend anyone (some prefer subtle lume). It would just be nice and legible all night, and far superior to C1. 

I fail to see how this would be anything other than a win-win situation all around.

Thoughts?


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## timefleas

If I wanted lume that REALLY lasted all night, I would get a watch with Tritium tubes, as most folks do who REALLY need to see what time it is after 10 or 20 hours in darkness (caving, tunnelling, piloting, trekking in the far north, etc.)--otherwise, it is a non-issue--Damasko is plenty bright for most uses where regular lume is relied upon.


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## ehansen

Agreed. I own a DA34 and DC66 and would gladly spend another $100 per if they improved the lume. Another coat, BW9, whatever...


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## Nokie

> If I wanted lume that REALLY lasted all night, I would get a watch with Tritium tubes, as most folks do who REALLY need to see what time it is after 10 or 20 hours in darkness (caving, tunnelling, piloting, trekking in the far north, etc.)--otherwise, it is a non-issue--Damasko is plenty bright for most uses where regular lume is relied upon.


Agree.


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## StufflerMike

If I may ask: Why not C3 ?


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## ehansen

stuffler said:


> If I may ask: Why not C3 ?


It's the color. If I could choose any one, it'd be W9 for its whiteness.

My DA34 has the red lume 12 maker and indeed it's also pretty weak.


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## Horatius

stuffler said:


> If I may ask: Why not C3 ?


I think because BGW9 is quite a lot whiter in daylight.

edit: ehansen beat me to it


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## whoa

Agree in this! Really the only "bad" thing about my da36! Still love it though 

/insert clever or funny note here\


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## StufflerMike

OK, I see. 
Never ever had a problem reading a Damasko in a glance in any daylight situation. Valid for the no lume DA20 as well and all the other watches I own(ed).


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## ehansen

stuffler said:


> OK, I see.
> Never ever had a problem reading a Damasko in a glance in any daylight situation. Valid for the no lume DA20 as well and all the other watches I own(ed).


Definitely no problem reading it... for me would just be a style preference. Stark white against a black dial, vs white with greenish hue, which I've had on other watches.

Though I'd also be great with brighter, greenish hue, vs their stock lume.


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## JuicyFruit1983

"If I wanted lume that REALLY lasted all night, I would get a watch with Tritium tubes, as most folks do who REALLY need to see what time it is after 10 or 20 hours in darkness (caving, tunnelling, piloting, trekking in the far north, etc.)--otherwise, it is a non-issue--Damasko is plenty bright for most uses where regular lume is relied upon."

I respectfully disagree entirely. I own a trit watch and it's great, practically, but as a watch-lover i'd like to think that one day i might wear a nice auto to work and it would be just as capable, practically. Isn't that the whole design ethos behind a brand like Damasko? Wear anywhere, do anything... it would seem as if lume is the only weak link holding this type of watch back from being a perfect 10.


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## COZ

Should use C3. Agree though, C1 is awful, at their price point they could up the lume game.


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## Happy Acres

timefleas said:


> it is a non-issue--Damasko is plenty bright for most uses where regular lume is relied upon.


 I completely agree, I have never had a problem reading the time clear until dawn, with several black dialed Damasko.


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## UnfortunateDateWindow

I agree with the original poster: Damasko owners could benefit from better lume, at least on the black-dial models (I've never seen the all-lume white dials in person).

It's not as necessary on the DA34/44 with the lumed bar indices, but the little dots and triangle on the numeral-dial models really aren't sufficient. (If they'd lume the numerals themselves, that would help.) I greatly prefer my DA44 to my DA46 in darkness for that reason.

Damasko's dials are so high-contrast that, when the lume is completely worn out for the night, they're still more legible than a lot of other watches on the market. But that doesn't mean they can't improve by using better (and more) lume.


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## timefleas

_"I respectfully disagree entirely. I own a trit watch and it's great, practically, but as a watch-lover i'd like to think that one day i might wear a nice auto to work and it would be just as capable, practically. Isn't that the whole design ethos behind a brand like Damasko? Wear anywhere, do anything... it would seem as if lume is the only weak link holding this type of watch back from being a perfect 10." 
_
BUT, the lume solution you suggest WON'T (BGW9) get you anywhere near being "just as capable"--there are several threads on the WUS site here showing clear evidence that even the best "regular" lumes can't hold a candle to a T25 Tritium watch, much less a T100 Tritium watch, beginning from around the 3rd hour of being placed in total darkness. My point is that even the best regular lume has nowhere near the longevity in darkness that just about any-t-tubed watch does. Your suggestion, therefore, does not offer even the potential for a "perfect 10," but by definition, falls well short of that mark. While perhaps the average Damasko may be improved changing the lume type, it will still fall short of ANY T-tubed watch, by actual comparison, if tested anytime after that three hour mark, give or take. So, to me at least, it seems odd to propose a solution that still clearly falls shorts of making for a perfect 10 in terms of night time legibility--if you are going to advocate change, why not advocate for the best that there is, rather than just some intermediate compromise? With that said, I still think my DA36 is perfectly legible for just about any situation I find myself in.


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## 1165dvd

Brighter, longer lasting lume would be great, but when I wore my DA36 (and my incoming 363 will probably be the same), I spent little time lamenting the poor luminescence b/c the thing was just so darn cool. Not sure I'd pay an extra $100.00 for it. My diver would be a different story.


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## pley3r

Nothing wrong with a white dial full lume Damasko using C1. Just as readable all night as anything else.
I can see an argument with the black dial versions, BGW9 could be a good alternative. 
C3 on the other hand I don't see being a good option. No subtlety or class to it at all, its just bright green... all the time. Works with some dials, wold look very naff on a Damasko dial. 
I love the White dials with C1, It's there when you need it and not when you don't


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## mucklechumps

If the BGW9 is white when not illuminated and brighter than C1, then I agree Damasko should use it. My DK14 is a tool watch. I bought it to use hard, and I often rely on the lume. I have lumed quite a few watch hands and dials with Noctilumina and I think it's generally a brighter product color for color, than Superluminova. I don't think cost is the issue here. Damasko must lume big batches of hands and dials at the same time so there will be very little waste, which is where the lume gets expensive (at least for me). But I'd pay more for a brighter lume if I had to. 
I want it all in one watch. I want a stunningly beautiful, boutique brand, hand crafted timepiece that is rugged and dependable and easily readable at night. What I don't want is to have to switch watches to a Seiko or Casio when I'm working in some Cambodian jungle at night.


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## Chris Stark

What are the different cost factors to the manufacturer with regard to Mike's chart in reply #5?


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## JuicyFruit1983

Fully lumed bgw9 bezel like the tudor pelagos would look so sick on one of the bezel models. All-in-one watch is right, having to switch to a watch a fraction of the cost when you need decent lume is silly when these pieces are marketed as military grade tools. No excuse for c1 on these watches, everything else about them is over-engineered, yet some people are defending "adequate" lume. Crazy. If micros like armida can knock out best lume ever with lashings of c3 at 1/3 the price, surely it's achievable. I simply do not see a reason not to switch to a stronger lume.


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## adimaano56sl

When I was shopping for my last tool watch purchase the only thing keeping me from purchasing a Damasko was the lume. 
Regarding the use of Tritium, I prefer the use of lume. I have a 17 year old Seamaster that is still burning bright, and if/ when the lume expires, I can easily get it relumed.
Tritium, on the other hand, would require OEM tubes, which may or may not be available in 20, 30, 40 years etc...


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## Insanevette

I would gladly spend $100 sending my Damasko in to get new lume. Really, the only drawback for me is the lume on Damasko.


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## voiceman

I know that the DA-37 uses C-1 but have not seen one "in hand". Can anyone shed a little "light" on how the C-1 lume holds up through the night on this model?

Thanks in advance.


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## myke

i agree the lume could be better. It is also disappointing the the bezel indices have no lume at all except for the pip


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## myke

It starts up really bright for sure. Not sure how long it lasts though in the night. I'm always sleeping.



voiceman said:


> I know that the DA-37 uses C-1 but have not seen one "in hand". Can anyone shed a little "light" on how the C-1 lume holds up through the night on this model?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


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## voiceman

Thanks, Myke. Just got a DA-35 and, as you stated, the lume starts out with a full green glow and fades to a minimal lume through the night. Visible but not fully usable unless you have great "night vision".


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## Lopez

I Agree!


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## MrDagon007

voiceman said:


> I know that the DA-37 uses C-1 but have not seen one "in hand". Can anyone shed a little "light" on how the C-1 lume holds up through the night on this model?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I have the big sister 373. It is readable through the night. I also have tritium watches and frankly I find them on practical terms not better. The large lumed area compensates for lesser strength.
Interesting how the dial seems to become whiter at dusk, it is the lume working but it has at dusk more an impression of whiteness rather than lume! 
My strongest lume watch is my seiko tuna, their own lume is like C3 or even better. Yes it is incredibly strong and lasting as well. But greenish in daylight.
Another interesting use of c1: my steinhart premium flieger has multiple layers, so that lumed markers look almost applied. The result is a watch whose lume starts of reasonably good, but importantly lasts well.
Coming to bgw9: my MKII Hawkinge has that (one of my favourite watches!) and it is indeed nicely white in daylight just like damasko's c1. However it is indeed stronger through the night, even while the mkii has only little bits of lume it is perfectly readable until the morning. A 373 with bgw 9 would be a torch, perhaps even too much of a good thing! An interesting detail is that bgw9 glows blue!


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## sulpher

Dagon said:


> An interesting detail is that bgw9 glows blue!


Although C1 can glow blue, too. Is is aviable in green and blue lumination colour.


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## MrDagon007

Interesting, I didn't know that!


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## rcs914

What I find frustrating is that they are a small boutique manufacturer, plus they offer the ability to customize their watches, and yet they still refuse to use better lume, even when it has been requested lots of times in the past. There is frankly no excuse.


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## StufflerMike

rcs914 said:


> What I find frustrating is that they are a small boutique manufacturer, plus they offer the ability to customize their watches, and yet they still refuse to use better lume, even when it has been requested lots of times in the past. There is frankly no excuse.


I think C3 grade A is sufficient for my needs. I do not need an excuse though.
Grade A lume must glow at least 25% brighter than normal lume, and it has to remain visible for at least 700 minutes (vs 570 related to "normal" lume).


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## Happy Acres

They do not need an excuse. Manufacturers have reasons for the choices they make, to presume they are just stubbornly not willing to do it is likely not the case.


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## TheBigBadGRIM

To the owners of white-dial Damaskos, do you need brighter lume? I'm still waiting for my DC67 but I assume C1 on white-dial Damaskos are good enough and anything else makes it look like a flash light.


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## MrDagon007

TheBigBadGRIM said:


> To the owners of white-dial Damaskos, do you need brighter lume? I'm still waiting for my DC67 but I assume C1 on white-dial Damaskos are good enough and anything else makes it look like a flash light.


I have the 373. It is readable through the night.


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## Sylus Grey

TheBigBadGRIM said:


> To the owners of white-dial Damaskos, do you need brighter lume? I'm still waiting for my DC67 but I assume C1 on white-dial Damaskos are good enough and anything else makes it look like a flash light.


I have a DA47 and IMO the lume is alright. I find the C1 is adequate for most situations, if you can give it a charge. But it will only last up to about 4 hours before it becomes quite difficult to read. I work night shifts and so in an environment where there is a gradual decrease in ambient light, the lume isn't able to store a useful charge for longer than 2 hours; in my experience. As you mentioned about stronger lume like C3, although its performance would be superior, I think this would be too bright and this negatively impact the visual style.


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## GreatScott

Maybe we can all agree that any other lume would be better than the C1 they use. Big fan of Damasko, but it is pretty weak in all honesty. Does anyone know of a person who can relume and how much?


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## Happy Acres

Everest Watchworks Home

http://internationalwatchworks.com/services/reluminizing/


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## Skoghen

I looked at the Damasko DS30. Almost ordered, I thought it was BGW9 lume... No order from me now. Same problem with Sinn.


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## Tanjecterly

Skoghen said:


> I looked at the Damasko DS30. Almost ordered, I thought it was BGW9 lume... No order from me now. Same problem with Sinn.


The DS30 has much better lume than the other Damaskos. It is quite readable at night. Not a torch by any means but good enough.


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## Skoghen

Tanjecterly said:


> The DS30 has much better lume than the other Damaskos. It is quite readable at night. Not a torch by any means but good enough.


Ok but I don't like green lume  That's the biggest reason I chose a Stowa Flieger Verus instead of a classic flieger. If it glows bright or not doesn't really matter that much to me. I want BGW9 because it makes the white crispy and glows blue=win.


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## kennylorenzo

I will say that the lume on my DA46 is disappointing. I was expecting better lume for the cost of the watch. I guess I was spoiled with my Orange Monster.


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## robi1138

I haven't checked to see which one lasts longer but I wish everyone would use BGW9. I just like the blue color and subtle brightness as opposed to the very bright green. It's just a personal aesthetic thing but the blue looks classier while the green looks familiar but trending towards cheesy at this point...but that's just me.


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## Caltex88

BGW9 is great, but C1 is absolutely a whiter white in sunlight.


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## danimal107

I can only speak for my latest gen dc66. But with the giant sward hands I’ve never had issues reading it at night and I use it for that quite often. Even till 4am it’s still legible. Just as much so as any of my bgw9 dive watches


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## The Rook

I agree - I prefer BGW9


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## Cahanc

They should use or offer both, maybe a test run of a model or two and see what sales look like and go from there.


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## spoolmakdays

My thoughts on my DS30 with C1...
It's not wow as far as initial charge, but it does have staying power to be visible all night. So, if I charge it by holding it close to a light bulb for about a minute before heading to bed, I'm able to read it all night into the morning. It works for my needs.


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## Kirkawall

IDK. Mine lights up okay...











... I do like BGW9 for its colour and duration and as an accent on many dials, but for a full-time or stark black/white dial I prefer SL.


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## nepatriot

Kirkawall said:


> IDK. Mine lights up okay...
> 
> ... I do like BGW9 for its colour and duration and as an accent on many dials, but for a full-time or stark black/white dial I prefer SL.


I agree: the contrast of anything other than "paper white" would not IMHO look right. I have owed the DA47 twice (flipped), and now a DC57si. 

I wouldn't want that dial glowing like a light bulb, as it would with brighter lume. That would draw too much attention I think to the watch. As it is, it's bright enough to see, especially after your eyes adjust to the dark, and lasts hours. I think Damasko has this spot on. 

On other styles, different story. I like a bright diver, and don't mind if it's greenish. Actually I think that greenish glow is kind of "classic diver". Dive watches, when they were THE instrument for timing, needed to be a torch for a short time frame, because dive time was limited. Their fading was a subtle sign that "time's about up". Today dive watches are a style, and not the tool they once were. 

I like green on a tactical style watch as well.

Pilot style watches, on the other hand, that greenish glow, IMHO, doesn't look right. Not sure what Damasko uses on their divers, but I like the look of their pilot watches with the lume they use now. To me, Damasko = aviation style watches.


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## Commisar

nepatriot said:


> I agree: the contrast of anything other than "paper white" would not IMHO look right. I have owed the DA47 twice (flipped), and now a DC57si.
> 
> I wouldn't want that dial glowing like a light bulb, as it would with brighter lume. That would draw too much attention I think to the watch. As it is, it's bright enough to see, especially after your eyes adjust to the dark, and lasts hours. I think Damasko has this spot on.
> 
> On other styles, different story. I like a bright diver, and don't mind if it's greenish. Actually I think that greenish glow is kind of "classic diver". Dive watches, when they were THE instrument for timing, needed to be a torch for a short time frame, because dive time was limited. Their fading was a subtle sign that "time's about up". Today dive watches are a style, and not the tool they once were.
> 
> I like green on a tactical style watch as well.
> 
> Pilot style watches, on the other hand, that greenish glow, IMHO, doesn't look right. Not sure what Damasko uses on their divers, but I like the look of their pilot watches with the lume they use now. To me, Damasko = aviation style watches.


Yeah I agree although I do with they had printed/applied a few more lume layers to me DC86 hands and indices. 

The lume is "present and accounted for" not a nuclear reactor like a Seiko or even my Omega Seamaster. 

I'd also LOVE a little bit of lume on my DC86's "airplane" minute counter, maybe a spot where the jets cockpit would be... 🤔😄


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