# Stowa Flieger impressions and review vs Archimede 42H and Alpina Startimer Pilot



## olegr (Dec 28, 2013)

Got my Flieger a few weeks ago and wanted to share my impressions. Also, I previously ordered and returned Archimede 42H and Alpina Startimer Pilot, so I wanted to share my take on all three as the questions and comparisons often come up as to which to buy.

I wanted to buy a pilot watch for a while, but I really didn't want to spend over 1k on a pilot style watch, no matter how much I liked IWCs and Zenith's versions of it. I don't care about the heritage much, since none of these watches really resemble the original pilot watches, and companies making them are entirely different companies than they used to be. I simply wanted a nice looking quality semi-beater in pilot style.

I initially wanted to get the Stowa, but the price together with the long wait, as well as it being on the smaller side put me off, so I ordered an Alpina Startimer 44mm. I ended up returning it and ordering an Archimede 42H thinking that it would be good enough since it's very similar to Stowa. It was also in stock and cost a few hundred less, so it made a lot of sense. Ultimately, I returned it as well and waited 3 months for the Stowa. I am happy with my purchase, but there are definitely things Stowa can improve upon. Not commenting on the movement as I believe all 3 use variations of the same 2824-2.

*Alpina Startimer Pilot 44mm

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Probably the best overall finish of the three, as well as feature set (strap quality, clasp, box, screw down, etc). Also had the best dial - sharp, nice finish, antiglare coating. If you look around, you can find it for about the same price as Stowa, or a little bit more. The issue I had with this watch is that it tuned out to be much bigger than I anticipated. I have a big wrist (7") but the watch just felt huge and stiff. The crown was way too big and sharp around the edges. It cut into my wrist. I think a comparable Stowa (with alligator strap and deployment clasp) would actually cost more than the Alpina. Had this watch fit better, I would probably keep it. The Aplina also had the best packaging/presentation as it came in a really nice case and with a really cool looking model plane.

*Archimede 42H

*
Good watch. Even though it was 2mm smaller than Startimer, it also felt too big for its size and the crown was huge and sharp as with the Alpina. The diamond crown looks great until you put the watch on, then it just gets in the way and cuts into your wrist. I understand now that a pilot watch over 40mm should probably be a chrono as the plain matte black dial just doesn't look right with all that empty space. The 42H was well finished, slightly worse than Stowa. I didn't like that all the indicators had a yellowish tint to them (probably due to C3), which made the watch look a bit dull. Also, without logo and date, the watch looked like it was missing something. Overall, it's similar to Stowa, but definitely feels a cheaper watch. It came in a very plain and generic black box - not a big deal, but presentation definitely matters. Great customer service, the watch shipped quickly and the return was easy (they even refunded original shipping fee) 

*Stowa Flieger with date & logo

*
Definitely the best overall watch out of the three. Wish the wait was shorter, but it was probably worth it. The size is perfect for a flieger, and the onion crown looks and feels fantastic. The finish is great, better than Archimede and close to Alpina. I got the TOP movement version, so the watch has been very accurate thus far and wears nicely due to its size and shape. It's 40mm, but wears a big larger due to the lugs. Has the best lume out of the three. Customer service was great as well. Came in a really nice metal case with personalized paperwork, so it made a good impression right away. Few things that I feel could be improved, especially at this price:


The rotor seems a bit loose by design, so it makes more noise than it has to as you move around. Not super loud, but you can hear the clicking in a quiet environment. Compared it to my co-workers 6 year old Stowa Flieger and it was the same. Doesn't seem to impact the operation of the watch though, more of an annoyance.
Would be great if the crown was a screw in type. I think that should be a given at this price point. Alpina had a screw in crown and 2x the rated water resistance at 10ATM. I would not feel comfortable wetting the Stowa.


I wanted the date feature since it's an additional (and useful) complication and the plain dial would look better with it. I think the placement could be improved though. I like how Sinn has it between 4 & 5, it's there but very much out of the way. Having the date window replace the 6 makes it more noticeable than it has to be. I still think it looks better than no date version though. Having the date window there makes the watch look a bit less round, which is a good thing.
Dial could be a bit sharper and numbers/indicators would look better without the slightly yellowish tint (could be unavoidable due to C3). The second indicators are white but they don't glow. Definitely better looking dial than 42H, but could be improved. Antiglare would be nice.

Hope this rant helps somebody make a decision one way or the other. Sorry for the rambling, here are some phone pics ..


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## sduford (Nov 24, 2013)

Just curious as to why you ordered an Archimede 42H and not the regular 42 if you don't like the sterile dial and vintage lume? That's the whole point of the H variant...


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

Welcome to the forum!


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## hidden830726 (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks for the review.

Wonder you mentioned, The Alpina is the best overall finish of the three. How is the Alpina finish compare to Stowa? Can u share more about this? Thanks


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## Ita (Nov 6, 2013)

I love your watch Olegr...

Flieger with date, sweep seconds and logo is my favourite. :-!

Ita


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

sduford said:


> Just curious as to why you ordered an Archimede 42H and not the regular 42 if you don't like the sterile dial and vintage lume? That's the whole point of the H variant...


+1 Plus stating the preference for the date being between 4 and 5 is exactly where Archimede puts it on the standard version.


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## Altezahen (Jan 29, 2014)

Hi olegr,

What about the Alpina 40mm, why haven't you tried that one?


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## elbilo (Sep 11, 2011)

Congrats on the STOWA! I also wish the STOWA had a screw-in crown, but I understand it's not meant to get wet. Personally, I think having the date at 6:00 offers better flow. I think the date at 4:30 would make the dial look a little cluttered, so for me, it would be distracting and stand out more than it does at 6:00. To each his own.


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## CSG (Feb 3, 2014)

I'd placed an order for a Stowa Flieger plain dial, no date but cancelled it when I came across the Archimedes 39H. A few hundred cheaper, same movement, in house case, and slightly smaller (which is better for my wrist size). But if one wants a date feature, I far prefer where Stowa puts theirs vs. Archimede's placement between 4 and 5.


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## kellencl (Jul 23, 2012)

Nice comparison. I also did a lot of research, before deciding on a more modern looking German flieger. I do own 3 different Laco fliegers, 2 A dials and one B dial. My criteria was case size, quality, sterile dial, no date and handwinding, since most of my other Mil/Pil pieces are autos. I did not check out Alpina, but did research Archimede, and strongly considered it. The tipping point, though, was that Stowa has history behind it, and I have always heard good things about their quality and CS. This is what I wound up with (pun intended):










I was able to get Stowa to substitute a 2801, for the 2824. The end result is beautiful, IMO. It is the perfect size, for me, the dial doesn't look too empty, given the 40 mm diameter. The lume color doesn't bother me. Mine looks white, until it fluoresces, and it is very bright, when it does. I especially like the low profile, and I opted for the historic engraving on the case side. Also, I LOVE the onion crown! I don't think I could have made a better choice. I ordered my watch last August, and received it in November. I have since heard that Stowa will no longer substitute the 2801, upon request. Perhaps they are finally running low on ETA movements. My watch also has the top grade movement, as I believe Stowa uses top grade, by default, or maybe that's Laco.

The beautifully decorated 2801:


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## olegr (Dec 28, 2013)

sduford said:


> Just curious as to why you ordered an Archimede 42H and not the regular 42 if you don't like the sterile dial and vintage lume? That's the whole point of the H variant...


Two reasons. I wanted blued hands, which I think improve the looks of a pilot watch considerably, only 42H has them AFAIK. Also, I didn't realize how much better a watch with logo/date looks until after I got the 42H since Alpina had all of those things.


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## olegr (Dec 28, 2013)

Hard to explain, it just felt more refined from the case finish, quality of materials, attention to detail/quality of the dial, as well as packaging. I think Alpina is probably in a higher luxury category (also much bigger), although the price difference vs Stowa is not significant. They probably have access to better machinery/equipment/materials, more designers, etc, so the watches come out looking more refined.


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## olegr (Dec 28, 2013)

Altezahen said:


> Hi olegr,
> 
> What about the Alpina 40mm, why haven't you tried that one?


No, I think the crown would be a pain in the ass still. I also prefer Stowa's lume to Alpina (it's minimal on the Startimer)


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## catlike (Aug 7, 2009)

Well everyone sees things differently and it really would be boring (especially here) if we didn't.

I chose my pilot style watch for the exact opposite reasons you did:


I like mine with no logo or text on the dial, especially with the numbers sitting inside the indices and away from the edge of the dial. It also adds diversity to my collection.
I didn't want a date on it.
I went for the vintage lume.
I haven't had a crown that ever cut into my skin and I've had a Chronoswiss with the biggest onion crown you ever saw! So crown size was not an issue.

I ended up getting an auto despite the fact that I probably would have preferred a hand wind, but I like the design.

Enjoy your new Stowa!


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## kellencl (Jul 23, 2012)

catlike said:


> Well everyone sees things differently and it really would be boring (especially here) if we didn't.
> 
> I chose my pilot style watch for the exact opposite reasons you did:
> 
> ...


Exactly! Seeing the OP's Stowa, and mine, in the same thread, I know I made the right choice for me. He made the right choice for him. Can you post a pic of yours?


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## catlike (Aug 7, 2009)

kellencl said:


> Exactly! Seeing the OP's Stowa, and mine, in the same thread, I know I made the right choice for me. He made the right choice for him. Can you post a pic of yours?


I intend to post a review but not yet, I've only had it a week and want to give it some more wrist time before I do.

Here's a snippet, I don't want to post too much non Stowa on their forum:


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## sduford (Nov 24, 2013)

catlike said:


> Well everyone sees things differently and it really would be boring (especially here) if we didn't.
> 
> I chose my pilot style watch for the exact opposite reasons you did:
> 
> ...


I think exactly the same as you, but I also wanted a bronze case so it would look more vintage (although not historically accurate!), so I ended up going for the Archimede 42H Bronze.


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