# New Laco Flieger PRO: Stuttgart PRO and Karlsruhe PRO



## Laco Pforzheim

We are happy to present our new model line the "Flieger PRO" with the two new models: Stuttgart PRO (type A dial) and Karlsruhe PRO (type B).

Use the online configurator to design a watch with a striking personality and use the opportunity to refine traditional craftsmanship with your own desires. Whether you want to use the Karlsruhe PRO or Stuttgart PRO as the base, you can always create a timepiece that looks back at the tradition of historic pilot watches. Discover the "Flieger PRO" as a personal composition of a "customized" pilot watch for your wrist. As model A or B - available in case sizes 37 mm, 40 mm and 43 mm.









Further information can be found on our webiste: Flieger Pro from Laco Watch Manufactory
And use your chance to win the NO. 1 in the raffle


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## Buramu

Nice! A 37mm Typ-B on a vintage looking strap... very appealing!


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## stelios036

Congrats, they look great. The dimension choices and lug to lug sizes are great!


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## DeckRunner

Hello - Anyone know what movement this is using? Either web site does not say or I am overlooking it.


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## Laco Pforzheim

DeckRunner said:


> Hello - Anyone know what movement this is using? Either web site does not say or I am overlooking it.


We're using the following movements:


movementLaco namebase movementAutomatic with / without dateLaco 200Sellita SW 200-1Hand winding without dateLaco 210Sellita SW 210-1Hand winding wit dateLaco 215Sellita SW 215-1


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## DeckRunner

Laco Pforzheim said:


> We're using the following movements:


For me Laco Fleiger with curved lugs, 37mm (small wrists) and better movement than Miyota = big win. Going straight to top of my list for next purchase.


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## JOHN J.

These look great! Congrats Laco!


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## Bobthekelpy

stelios036 said:


> Congrats, they look great. The dimension choices and lug to lug sizes are great!


Where are the lug to lug dimensions listed?


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## ianlyle

I am already in love with this watch! I can’t wait to purchase one. However, I would like to enter the raffle for the NO. 1, but the website is not letting me do so. It is not working. How can I enter the raffle?


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## BundyBear

Bobthekelpy said:


> Where are the lug to lug dimensions listed?


It’s on the website 

37mm case = lug to lug 44.5mm
40mm = 47.5mm
42mm = 50.5mm


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## BundyBear

Hi @Laco Pforzheim, congratulations on the new release. It’s a very handsome (or beautiful?) watch.

I would like to know what’s coming in November? I jumped onto the website when I saw the newsletter but it seems some features (decorated movement) will only be available next month.

By the way, one of the photos show an exhibition caseback. Is that what it is?


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## Bobthekelpy

BundyBear said:


> It’s on the website
> 
> 37mm case = lug to lug 44.5mm
> 40mm = 47.5mm
> 42mm = 50.5mm


Thanks, I just needed to scroll that bit further..


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## jmariorebelo

Buramu said:


> Nice! A 37mm Typ-B on a vintage looking strap... very appealing!


I've been waiting for this watch for years. Laco doing it right, as usual.


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## stelios036

BundyBear said:


> Hi @Laco Pforzheim,
> 
> I would like to know what’s coming in November? I jumped onto the website when I saw the newsletter but it seems some features (decorated movement) will only be available next month.


Great question! Do we have more information about this?


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## drmdwebb

ianlyle said:


> How can I enter the raffle?


Enter the Laco raffle Flieger Pro


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## Laco Pforzheim

Thanks for your feedback!

The decorated movements are currentky not available but will ready for ordering in November....


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## Lee_K

I think this is an outstanding offering. First of all, I'm delighted to see a case a with curved down lugs like the Basic series but with the ability to have higher-end Sellita movements. I also like all the customization options, particularly the anti-reflective coating choices. This is exactly what I've been hoping for and will be ordering one early next year. Well done, Laco!


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## Aspiniou

Hi, @Laco Pforzheim, this is probably a wrong place to ask, but are you by any chance planning to make a Cuxhaven model in 36 - 37mm case in the nearest future? I love the look of the large version, but the size is an issue for me as I'm looking for a compact piece.

Thanks!


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## StufflerMike

Aspiniou said:


> Hi, @Laco Pforzheim, this is probably a wrong place to ask, but are you by any chance planning to make a Cuxhaven model in 36 - 37mm case in the nearest future? I love the look of the large version, but the size is an issue for me as I'm looking for a compact piece.
> 
> Thanks!


How ? The Unitas movement is 16 lignes½ ‴ (36,60 mm). You are asking for the impossible. An automatic would be doable with an ETA 2895-1 which has a small second, however it wouldn‘t be a Cuxhaven anymore.


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## Erik_H

Aspiniou said:


> Hi, @Laco Pforzheim, this is probably a wrong place to ask, but are you by any chance planning to make a Cuxhaven model in 36 - 37mm case in the nearest future? I love the look of the large version, but the size is an issue for me as I'm looking for a compact piece.


I appreciate the new models and the option of customisation. For the company to grow and continue its success based on the core design I think it is the way to go.

However I think having the availability of other models in different sizes would be good. I know manufacturing processes calls for streamlining for cost. How about making a different dial for the new 37 mm case in the same design as the discontinued Navy 36? I was about to purchase that one, but suddenly it was gone.

What do you say @Laco Pforzheim ?









Navy Watches by Laco Watches | Model Navy 36


Laco offers exclusive and original German Navy Watches since 1925. Buy your model Navy 36 quick and safely at the Laco Watches Onlineshop.




www.laco.de


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## Dano14

Laco Pforzheim said:


> We are happy to present our new model line the "Flieger PRO" with the two new models: Stuttgart PRO (type A dial) and Karlsruhe PRO (type B).
> 
> Use the online configurator to design a watch with a striking personality and use the opportunity to refine traditional craftsmanship with your own desires. Whether you want to use the Karlsruhe PRO or Stuttgart PRO as the base, you can always create a timepiece that looks back at the tradition of historic pilot watches. Discover the "Flieger PRO" as a personal composition of a "customized" pilot watch for your wrist. As model A or B - available in case sizes 37 mm, 40 mm and 43 mm.
> View attachment 16163086
> 
> 
> Further information can be found on our webiste: Flieger Pro from Laco Watch Manufactory
> And use your chance to win the NO. 1 in the raffle


Looks like a very nice offering. I really like the higher WR rating while keeping a relatively modest thickness.

For the version w/ bead-blasted steel case, are titanium or other non-steel beads used, so that the case surface finish is not base steel but titanium or other (similar to your Frankfurt GMT, I believe)?


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## stelios036

One question regarding the height. I understand the handwinding and the automatic version have the same height?


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## Laco Pforzheim

stelios036 said:


> One question regarding the height. I understand the handwinding and the automatic version have the same height?


Yes both versions have the same cases and the same dimensions.


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## jmariorebelo

Laco Pforzheim said:


> Yes both versions have the same cases and the same dimensions.


And does the handwinding version also have a screw down crown?


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## Laco Pforzheim

Yes, all those Stuttgart PRO and Karlsruhe PRO models have a screw down crown due to the watcher resistance of 20 ATM. No matter if it's the handwinding or the automatic version...


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## Sammy Q

I just placed an order for the Karlsruhe PRO 43mm B dial, what is the standard strap size for this watch, especially the lug spacing? Thanks


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## Laco Pforzheim

Hello, what do you mean exactly with strap size? The lug width for the strap is 22 mm.


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## gseiko

We need a lume shot of the Karlsruhe PRO. Is the lume the same as the Pilot Watch Original where the 5, 15, 25, 35, 45, 55 are not lumed?


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## Myron

Been waiting for years for another Laco to speak to me, and this one totally does. 

Question for @Laco Pforzheim -- when will the option for a decorated movement be available?

--Edit-- Never mind! I loved the watch so much I already placed my order. Went with the solid caseback, so who cares about a decorated movement, right?


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## Currywurst

Buramu said:


> Schön! Ein 37mm Typ-B an einem Vintage-Look-Armband... sehr ansprechend!
> [/ZITIEREN]
> Hi !
> That was my first words ,too.👍🏻


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## praetor47

Laco Pforzheim said:


> Yes, all those Stuttgart PRO and Karlsruhe PRO models have a screw down crown due to the watcher resistance of 20 ATM. No matter if it's the handwinding or the automatic version...


any way to have a handwinding version WITHOUT the pointless (to be polite) screw down crown that would only make insufferably irritating to operate a manual wind watch for 0 actual benefits? it's currently the only thing (that and waiting to see what the decoration on the movement will look like  ) stopping me from buying one


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## StufflerMike

For those in the area. LACO is going to showcase their Flieger Pro models this weekend, 29-30 Oct, at the Watchtime Düsseldorf.


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## watchobserver

Myron said:


> Question for @Laco Pforzheim -- when will the option for a decorated movement be available?


I have a related question for @Laco Pforzheim. When customizing either Stuttgart or Karlsruhe, and choosing the "Sapphire crystal caseback", the picture changes to this one regardless of the "Elaboré" or "Quality level Top" movement option.








Is the picture valid for both movement options, or, in other words, is the "Quality level Top" mostly non-decorated? Thanks!


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## flametop

Any information about magnetic resistance? Difference between steel and glass case back?


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## StufflerMike

flametop said:


> Any information about magnetic resistance? Difference between steel and glass case back?


Both 4.800.


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## leapinglizard

Very nice Laco, now give us a blue dial option


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## Earthbound

I’ve put the Kempten in the cart so many times but never hit pay due to the lugs. Problem solved. Thanks Laco.


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## Laco Pforzheim

Earthbound said:


> I’ve put the Kempten in the cart so many times but never hit pay due to the lugs. Problem solved. Thanks Laco.


You're welcome! Looking forward to your feedback and pictures


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## Myron

Laco got my watch built and shipped within a few days of my order, but FedEx sent it on a North American tour for about 3 weeks after it arrived in the US. It was finally delivered and I'm super thrilled with this watch. It's great to have a Laco again after so long!

Mine is the brushed case, A-dial, hand winding Top grade movement with Laco logo. Back in my more hardcore flieger phase I used to be a snob about sterile dials, but now I'd rather the watch said Laco and Made in Germany. 

Well done Laco on these great watches!

Myron


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## Earthbound

Myron said:


> Laco got my watch built and shipped within a few days of my order, but FedEx sent it on a North American tour for about 3 weeks after it arrived in the US. It was finally delivered and I'm super thrilled with this watch. It's great to have a Laco again after so long!
> 
> Mine is the brushed case, A-dial, hand winding Top grade movement with Laco logo. Back in my more hardcore flieger phase I used to be a snob about sterile dials, but now I'd rather the watch said Laco and Made in Germany.
> 
> Well done Laco on these great watches!
> 
> Myron
> 
> View attachment 16233302


Looks fantastic! Enjoy 
I’m on the fence with sizing. Is that the 40mm? What is your wrist size, if you don’t mind me asking?


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## Myron

Hi Earthbound,

Yep, this is the 40 mm watch, and my wrist is ~ 7.25". For reasons I've never been able to figure out, my pictures always seem to make watches look bigger on the wrist than they seem in person. This watch is perfectly sized for me, and wears a little smaller than the identically sized Sinn 856. 

I have not one single criticism of this watch. In fact, something I didn't mention earlier is how much I love the modified diamond crown Laco has come up with here. I've never been nuts about super exaggerated diamond crowns. This Laco PRO gets it just right with a toned down, modified diamond shape. I love it; perfect in every way. 

Hope this helps,

Myron


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## BundyBear

Myron said:


> Laco got my watch built and shipped within a few days of my order, but FedEx sent it on a North American tour for about 3 weeks after it arrived in the US. It was finally delivered and I'm super thrilled with this watch. It's great to have a Laco again after so long!
> 
> Mine is the brushed case, A-dial, hand winding Top grade movement with Laco logo. Back in my more hardcore flieger phase I used to be a snob about sterile dials, but now I'd rather the watch said Laco and Made in Germany.
> 
> Well done Laco on these great watches!
> 
> Myron


Congrats! That's a beautiful watch. I am still on the fence with respect to the new release or go for the older one.


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## Myron

BundyBear said:


> Congrats! That's a beautiful watch. I am still on the fence with respect to the new release or go for the older one.


Thanks, BundyBear. I've owned other Laco fliegers over the years, and although the traditional and historically correct cases with their short, sticky-outty lugs are cool, I never found them particularly comfortable to wear. The lugs of the PRO flieger puts the strap down closer to the bottom of the watch, and makes it much more comfortable (for me at least). It makes this flieger a little more conventional looking, I suppose, but I like it more.

Good luck with your decision!

Myron


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## Lee_K

Great job, Myron! You spec'ed the watch out exactly the same way I would have. I also agree with you: the turned down lugs of this series are my preference over the historically correct perpendicular lugs of the Original Series watches.


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## Myron

Lee_K said:


> Great job, Myron! You spec'ed the watch out exactly the same way I would have. I also agree with you: the turned down lugs of this series are my preference over the historically correct perpendicular lugs of the Original Series watches.


Thank you, @Lee_K! I made a new strap for my Laco today out of Horween Whiskey shell cordovan. I went back and forth about putting a rivet in it at the lug ends for that true flieger look, but have put that off for now. I can always add one later.


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## Earthbound

Myron said:


> Hi Earthbound,
> 
> Yep, this is the 40 mm watch, and my wrist is ~ 7.25". For reasons I've never been able to figure out, my pictures always seem to make watches look bigger on the wrist than they seem in person. This watch is perfectly sized for me, and wears a little smaller than the identically sized Sinn 856.
> 
> I have not one single criticism of this watch. In fact, something I didn't mention earlier is how much I love the modified diamond crown Laco has come up with here. I've never been nuts about super exaggerated diamond crowns. This Laco PRO gets it just right with a toned down, modified diamond shape. I love it; perfect in every way.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Myron


Thanks for the reply Myron. I’ve owned 40mm non dive watches in the past and find them visually too large for my eyes. I have a round 6.7inch wrist, 2.25 across and prefer 38/39mm. I am going to try the 37mm out I think. I own a 37mm Stowa that wears well at 37mm, but it’s white and has open space on the dial. Not sure how a black, busy dial will look size wise visually.


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## Myron

Earthbound said:


> I have a round 6.7inch wrist, 2.25 across and prefer 38/39mm. I am going to try the 37mm out I think. I own a 37mm Stowa that wears well at 37mm, but it’s white and has open space on the dial. Not sure how a black, busy dial will look size wise visually.


I wear a lot of 38 mm watches myself, and I think if I were you I'd go with the 37 mm case with this Laco. Good luck and best wishes, @Earthbound !


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## jmariorebelo

One more question for you @Myron, which AR coating option did you go for, both sides or underside only? How's the crystal clarity?


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## Myron

I opted for the underside AR only (not sure it's an option?). Crystal clarity is fine. 

Really, truly, this is a dandy watch. Exactly what I want in my German Flieger. Laco nailed it!


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## dnodelman

These definitely bump them up a tier.


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## Myron




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## watchobserver

ISO 764 or its equivalent DIN 8309


StufflerMike said:


> Both 4.800.


Is this because it's what is expected? I could not find this information anywhere in the included documentation nor Laco website (ISO 764 / DIN 8309).


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## loqv75

Received mine (37mm manual)


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## loqv75

Here it is...Great watch!


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## LuckyTime35

I wonder if Laco would do a different color for seconds hand? love the look


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## SwedishElite22

Does anyone know if it's possible to obtain a Chronometer grade Sellita 210 movement in the Karlsruhe? 

I know it comes standard with the Special/Elaboré grade, and you can jump to the Premium/Top grade for €130, but I would like the Chronometer grade movement ideally. (If I'm dropping $1,500+ on a watch I'd really like to get the best performance as possible.) I'm under the impression Laco does use Sellita Chronometer grade movements in other models but didn't see an option to select it on the Karlsruhe page.

I asked my AD but they seem confused as the reply was, "_there are no Chronometer specs from Laco as they are not a Swiss company_" which is inaccurate anyway you slice it. (Unless I'm mistaken the 'Chronometer' designation is simply a certification of the movements regulation/adjustment and its ability to maintain COSC level accuracy; so it makes no difference where the watch comes from. Even if it was a requirement that the movement be Swiss, while Laco is German, they are using a Sellita Swiss made movement.)


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## watchobserver

@SwedishElite22 better to ask Laco directly. I am not aware of them using any Chronometer/COSC movements, so you might be out of luck. Does not hurt to email them!

Although it is for a different purpose, I am reporting on the Premium grade accuracy of this watch here. The summary is: near 0.00 after one month.


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## Laco Pforzheim

No need to email us 😉 But as already presumed by @watchobserver we don't offer any Chronometer or COSC movements / watches currently, neither in the PRO line nor in any other models.
We have a very good experience with the precision of our currently used movements and also get a very good customer feedback (for both Elaboré and Top grades).


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## watchobserver

Laco Pforzheim said:


> No need to email us 😉 But as already presumed by @watchobserver we don't offer any Chronometer or COSC movements / watches currently, neither in the PRO line nor in any other models.
> We have a very good experience with the precision of our currently used movements and also get a very good customer feedback (for both Elaboré and Top grades).


Out of curiosity, do you regulate them yourselves when assembling your watches or do you rely on Sellita's/ETA's fabric regulations, given that they sell their movements with a grade for a reason?


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## StufflerMike

SwedishElite22 said:


> Does anyone know if it's possible to obtain a Chronometer grade Sellita 210 movement in the Karlsruhe?
> 
> I know it comes standard with the Special/Elaboré grade, and you can jump to the Premium/Top grade for €130, but I would like the Chronometer grade movement ideally. (If I'm dropping $1,500+ on a watch I'd really like to get the best performance as possible.) I'm under the impression Laco does use Sellita Chronometer grade movements in other models but didn't see an option to select it on the Karlsruhe page.
> 
> I asked my AD but they seem confused as the reply was, "_there are no Chronometer specs from Laco as they are not a Swiss company_" which is inaccurate anyway you slice it. (Unless I'm mistaken the 'Chronometer' designation is simply a certification of the movements regulation/adjustment and its ability to maintain COSC level accuracy; so it makes no difference where the watch comes from. Even if it was a requirement that the movement be Swiss, while Laco is German, they are using a Sellita Swiss made movement.)


There is indeed some difference where the watch comes from, COSC only certifies Swiss Made watches (according to the revised “Swiss Made” Ordinance for Watches entered into force on 1 January 2017. This is also the date on which the new "Swissness" rules entered into force), a watch Made in Germany will never ever get a COSC certificate. That‘s basically the reason the Glashütte Observatory certifies German chronometer watches.


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## skuripanda

SwedishElite22 said:


> Does anyone know if it's possible to obtain a Chronometer grade Sellita 210 movement in the Karlsruhe?
> 
> I know it comes standard with the Special/Elaboré grade, and you can jump to the Premium/Top grade for €130, but I would like the Chronometer grade movement ideally. (If I'm dropping $1,500+ on a watch I'd really like to get the best performance as possible.) I'm under the impression Laco does use Sellita Chronometer grade movements in other models but didn't see an option to select it on the Karlsruhe page.
> 
> I asked my AD but they seem confused as the reply was, "_there are no Chronometer specs from Laco as they are not a Swiss company_" which is inaccurate anyway you slice it. (Unless I'm mistaken the 'Chronometer' designation is simply a certification of the movements regulation/adjustment and its ability to maintain COSC level accuracy; so it makes no difference where the watch comes from. Even if it was a requirement that the movement be Swiss, while Laco is German, they are using a Sellita Swiss made movement.)


I can tell you that both my recent Laco watches that I had built with top grade movement (the Munchen with a top grade Valjoux 7750, and the Replica with the top grade Sellita 210) were fine tuned by the watchmaker who assembled them and regulated to about +2, +3 seconds per day.

I am quite happy with that.


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## SwedishElite22

Laco Pforzheim said:


> No need to email us 😉 But as already presumed by @watchobserver we don't offer any Chronometer or COSC movements / watches currently, neither in the PRO line nor in any other models.
> We have a very good experience with the precision of our currently used movements and also get a very good customer feedback (for both Elaboré and Top grades).


Thank you very much for the reply and confirmation. While researching the different movements I came across an article on watch and wound for the new LE models which mentioned Chronometer grade movements being used. In checking back to the Laco site it seems that article was in error. 

The request for a Chronometer grade is more in that this purchase already went from <$500 to <$750 to <$1,000 and now I'm looking at a $1,600 Karlsruhe, so given that journey I might as well go for broke if the option exists. 



StufflerMike said:


> There is indeed some difference where the watch comes from, COSC only certifies Swiss Made watches (according to the revised “Swiss Made” Ordinance for Watches entered into force on 1 January 2017. This is also the date on which the new "Swissness" rules entered into force), a watch Made in Germany will never ever get a COSC certificate. That‘s basically the reason the Glashütte Observatory certifies German chronometer watches.


Thank you very much for the reply and adding that bit of knowledge. I was not aware such a requirement was placed on the COSC certification so that is helpful. 

Please forgive me for this simplification, but to clarify and ensure I understand it correctly:

A Chronometer is a movement regardless of country of origin (or the country of origin of the watch itself once assembled) which meets various standards, the most associated being a maintained accuracy of -4/+6 sec/day, correct? 

Since 1 Jan 2017 only a Swiss movement in a Swiss Made watch can be certified by COSC. 

For German Made watches they obtain a similar certification from the Glashütte Observatory. 

Still correct? 

Does the Glashütte Observatory care if the movement is Swiss but the watch is German Made (eg does the movement have to be German in-house or modified by the German watch maker (eg Laco 210 vs Sellita 210)) for them to certify it?


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## watchobserver

watchobserver said:


> Although it is for a different purpose, I am reporting on the Premium grade accuracy of this watch here. The summary is: near 0.00 after one month.


@SwedishElite22 forgot to specify that “this” watch is a Laco Karlsruhe Pro with a Premium Sellita SW200-1. It has averaged -0.34s/day for almost 5 weeks now. 

It seems to swing between +15s and -15s absolute (not per day) over weeks, averaging near 0s/day after the first weeks.


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## StufflerMike

In Switzerland, the “Contrôle officiel suisse des chronomètres”, or COSC for short, carries out the chronometer tests on the basis of the ISO standard 3159 and only tests if “Swiss made”. The COSC does test movements only, so not the complete watch.

In Germany, chronometers are tested by the “State Office for Measurement and Calibration Thuringia”, LMET for short, in cooperation with the “Saxon State Office for Measurement and Calibration”, or SLME for short, in the Glashütte i / SA observatory in accordance with DIN 8319 .

For mechanical watches, tests according DIN 8319 correspond to the ISO requirements used by the COSC. However, DIN 8319 stipulates that a watch must be adjustable to the second and fully assembled, i.e. just as the customer wears it.

Test procedures in Glashütte (for Swiss COSC see www.cosc.ch).

1st + 2nd day: watch in position "6 up" at 23 ° C

3rd + 4th day: watch in position "3 up" at 23 ° C

5th + 6th day: watch in position "9 up" at 23 ° C

7th + 8th day: watch in position "dial down" at 23 ° C

9th + 10th day: watch in position "dial up" at 23 ° C

10th day: additional functional check of complications (if any)

Day 11: Watch in the "dial up" position at 8 ° C

Day 12: Watch in "dial up" position at 23 ° C

Day 13: Watch in "dial up" position at 38 ° C

14th + 15th day: watch in position "6 up" at 23 ° C

Test criteria for mech. watches (movement> 20 mm) and corresponding tolerances:

Average daily gear (M) -4 to +6 seconds / day

Average daily rate deviation (V) max. 2 seconds / day

Greatest rate deviation (Vmax) max. 5 seconds / day

Difference between horizontal and vertical (D) -6 to +8 sec / day

greatest difference between the mean daily course and one of the courses (P) max. 10 sec./day

Primary compensation error (C)
(Rate deviation per ° C) max. 0.6 sec./ ° C

Resumption of Gear (R)
(Comparison of the 1st and 2nd day with the 15th day) max. 5 seconds / day

It is my understanding that the LMET/SLME does test German watches with swiss movements if required by the manufacturer, see Zeppelin 7620-1 with ETA 7753 or the Junkers 6658-1. However, chronometer tests are not cheap in Glashütte, that‘s why you will only find a couple of German watches with a chronometer certificate. The Zeppelin 7620-1 was issued for their anniversary, there‘s a certified Nomos 175 years of watchmaking in Glashütte, there are some Wempe Chronometerwerke watches, Mühle Teutonia II, GO Senator Chronometer.


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## Laco Pforzheim

StufflerMike said:


> There is indeed some difference where the watch comes from, COSC only certifies Swiss Made watches (according to the revised “Swiss Made” Ordinance for Watches entered into force on 1 January 2017. This is also the date on which the new "Swissness" rules entered into force), a watch Made in Germany will never ever get a COSC certificate. That‘s basically the reason the Glashütte Observatory certifies German chronometer watches.


Thanks for that explanation, Mike! You never stop learning  I thought that Swiss Made movements can be tested for COSC, no matter in which watch they were build afterwards. But probably they changed the rules in 2017, as today all the "customers" are Swiss (Rolex, Omega & Breitling etc.). Theoretically we can test our watches at the German testing institute in Glashütte, but it would increase the price of the watch dramatically as they only test full watches (not the movements like in Swittzerland). Especially for the individualized models like the Karlsruhe or Stuttgart this would be almost impossible as we would have to send the watches to the institute after building them according to the customers request.



watchobserver said:


> Out of curiosity, do you regulate them yourselves when assembling your watches or do you rely on Sellita's/ETA's fabric regulations, given that they sell their movements with a grade for a reason?


We regulate every single watch again after assembling to check the precision and adjust them again if necessary.
For most Laco watches, the adjustment is even more precisely than stated in the regulations by Sellita / ETA or Miyota, to make sure, that the watch will work accurately even after shipping etc.


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## watchobserver

Laco Pforzheim said:


> We regulate every single watch again after assembling to check the precision and adjust them again if necessary.
> For most Laco watches, the adjustment is even more precisely than stated in the regulations by Sellita / ETA or Miyota, to make sure, that the watch will work accurately even after shipping etc.


Thanks for specifying, and I can gladly report that both my Laco watches, one with a Miyota 9015, the other with a Sellita SW200-1 Premium, are almost +/-0s/day after 4-5 weeks of continuous use.


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## skuripanda

Laco Pforzheim said:


> We regulate every single watch again after assembling to check the precision and adjust them again if necessary.
> For most Laco watches, the adjustment is even more precisely than stated in the regulations by Sellita / ETA or Miyota, to make sure, that the watch will work accurately even after shipping etc.


I mentioned this to Dorothea and would like to repeat it here:

I really appreciate how the München chrono includes the watchmaker's proof of testing the watch accuracy (the proof is a small printout that Laco includes in the Certificate, and the proof is signed, dated and stamped).
I think it would be very appropriate if you included such a proof with all high end watches that you send to customers. I was a shame that my Replica did not come with it.

I am about to buy a Stuttgart Pro with top grade decorated movement, and it would be great if you started including testing proof with all watches by the time my Stuttgart is built 

I know it's not the same as having the watches officially tested at Glasshüte, but it gives the customers a lot of peace of mind and adds a lot of credibility and sense of effort that goes into building Laco watches, and it's not a big effort for Laco (as I assume you internally regulate and test all watches, especially high end ones).


----------



## randallb

Sorry if this has been asked, and there aren't many pictures out there of these yet. I'm thinking about getting the A-dial version, does the printing on the dial have a fauxtina or is it white? Thanks!


----------



## skuripanda

randallb said:


> Sorry if this has been asked, and there aren't many pictures out there of these yet. I'm thinking about getting the A-dial version, does the printing on the dial have a fauxtina or is it white? Thanks!


faux patina is kind of reserved for the Erbstück models. I doubt the Flieger Pro watches have anything different from the "Original Pilot" contemporary line-up like the Dortmund, Heidelberg (non-Erbstück models)...
So, to answer your question: the print on the dials is quite surely white with C3 superluminova.


----------



## randallb

skuripanda said:


> faux patina is kind of reserved for the Erbstück models. I doubt the Flieger Pro watches have anything different from the "Original Pilot" contemporary line-up like the Dortmund, Heidelberg (non-Erbstück models)...
> So, to answer your question: the print on the dials is quite surely white with C3 superluminova.


Thank you. I previously owned a Leipzig and an Augsburg. I much preferred the Leipzigs dial so this is great to hear. On the website it looks yellowish to me so just wanted to make sure.


----------



## watchobserver

randallb said:


> On the website it looks yellowish to me so just wanted to make sure.


I took several photos of my Type-B Karlsruhe Pro indoor and outdoor and posted them here. Perhaps this helps you to judge the whiteness of the dial. To me, it does look slightly yellowish/greenish most of the time, and I like it. The parts covered in Super-LumiNova somehow prevail over the white ones. You have to focus on it to notice the white parts. 

Alternatively, you need to hit the dial with a non-yellow light to notice them better. Here it's a window:


----------



## Quartersawn

That looks like C3 to me - a slight greenish tinge to it. I would personally prefer a pure white like BGW9 lume (it glows blue) rather than C3 but the C3 glows brighter (and perhaps longer).

I might be in the minority but I like fauxtina lume that is a light cream color. There is a fine line between nice looking and too dark though. I don't care for the lume with a brownish tone.


----------



## skuripanda

Indeed, Superluminova C3 is literally what Laco lists as putting on the dial and hands. And it does last a good long while and glows quite brightly.


----------



## mrk

Looks like I am soon to buy the Karlsruhe 37mm, options are blasted case, AR coating, hand winding, Type-B, open back, Top grade movement, with decorations.

Will be on a Hirsch PURE natural rubber strap as that's my go to for all my pilot watches. Will sit in the trio cllection I already have, Hamilton Pilot Pioneer Mechanical (H-50 ETA 2901 hand wind), Stowa Flieger Vintage Bronze 36mm (Sellita SW215-1 hand wind, no ghost position, no date). Both these watches are 0 to +4s a day depending on wear. Looks like the Laco uses the SW210-1 instead of the 215, *wonder if that has a ghost position for the hand wind model or has it removed like on the Stowa's SW215?*

Very nice looking watch and love the diamond crown. Cannot wait! Finally nice to have a Laco Type-B back in the collection again!


----------



## JOHN J.

mrk said:


> Looks like I am soon to buy the Karlsruhe 37mm, options are blasted case, AR coating, hand winding, Type-B, open back, Top grade movement, with decorations.
> 
> Will be on a Hirsch PURE natural rubber strap as that's my go to for all my pilot watches. Will sit in the trio cllection I already have, Hamilton Pilot Pioneer Mechanical (H-50 ETA 2901 hand wind), Stowa Flieger Vintage Bronze 36mm (Sellita SW215-1 hand wind, no ghost position, no date). Both these watches are 0 to +4s a day depending on wear. Looks like the Laco uses the SW210-1 instead of the 215, *wonder if that has a ghost position for the hand wind model or has it removed like on the Stowa's SW215?*
> 
> Very nice looking watch and love the diamond crown. Cannot wait! Finally nice to have a Laco Type-B back in the collection again!


Jealous


----------



## skuripanda

mrk said:


> Looks like the Laco uses the SW210-1 instead of the 215, *wonder if that has a ghost position for the hand wind model or has it removed like on the Stowa's SW215?*


The 210 doesn't have a date complication and I can confirm (my Replica 45 is built with Sellita 210 top grade) that there is no ghost position on the crown.
Frankly, it makes no sense why Stowa would use the 215 on no-date models, why even use a movement with date complication if you're not using it on the dial?

Congrats on getting the Laco. Sounds like a great watch... I myself am getting for my wife a 40mm version with the A dial (Stuttgart), sandblasted open back case, AR coating and the automatic top grade decorated movement. I have to say that the way Laco is letting us tinker and customize our watches is amazing and I keep going back to the website and coming up with different configurations... I love it.


----------



## mrk

JOHN J. said:


> Jealous


It's not a choice that came lightly! Been eyeing the Laco Pro since November time!



skuripanda said:


> The 210 doesn't have a date complication and I can confirm (my Replica 45 is built with Sellita 210 top grade) that there is no ghost position on the crown.
> Frankly, it makes no sense why Stowa would use the 215 on no-date models, why even use a movement with date complication if you're not using it on the dial?
> 
> Congrats on getting the Laco. Sounds like a great watch... I myself am getting for my wife a 40mm version with the A dial (Stuttgart), sandblasted open back case, AR coating and the automatic top grade decorated movement. I have to say that the way Laco is letting us tinker and customize our watches is amazing and I keep going back to the website and coming up with different configurations... I love it.


I figured as much! It was a question I asked myself when ordering the Stowa too as could not understand it but hey ho, mine definitely has no ghost position and their page stated it was the 215. No complaints of course 

But yep I had the 39mm Aachen a while back and that had the upgraded movement and AR crystal customisations which really made it stand out in my eyes. That watch was really nice so it's nice to have a higher grade Laco back on the wrist this time round.


----------



## recon493

mrk said:


> Will be on a Hirsch PURE natural rubber strap as that's my go to for all my pilot watches. Will sit in the trio cllection I already have, Hamilton Pilot Pioneer Mechanical (H-50 ETA 2901 hand wind), Stowa Flieger Vintage Bronze 36mm (Sellita SW215-1 hand wind, no ghost position, no date). Both these watches are 0 to +4s a day depending on wear. Looks like the Laco uses the SW210-1 instead of the 215, *wonder if that has a ghost position for the hand wind model or has it removed like on the Stowa's SW215?*


I see that you are all about hand wound movements. I like your style and have found myself really close to adding a Laco Pro with a date window using the SW215 to go with my Stowa 41mm 6498. I just love the pure mechanicals. 

It was briefly discussed in earlier replies about them all being 20 ATM waterproof with a screw down crown. I still don't quite understand how the screw down crown will work with the SW210/SW215 models. How can one reach a hard stop on the winding and then be able to screw it down?


----------



## mrk

That's an interesting question I'd it thought about! Is it definitely a screw down crown in that case or are the hand wind ones simply non screw down?


----------



## recon493

mrk said:


> That's an interesting question I'd it thought about! Is it definitely a screw down crown in that case or are the hand wind ones simply non screw down?


Perhaps someone has already purchased one and can chime in here. It is my hope that the hand wound models are not screwed down. I do not understand the movement enough. It would seem that in order for it (SW215) to work, it would require a screwed down position then the following: position 1 winding, position 2 date adjust, position 3 time setting.


----------



## mrk

I'll find out soon enough! Mine should be here in 10 days or so hopefully.


----------



## skuripanda

There is no screw down crowns on any of the Basic or the Original pilot watches, EDIT: but they do mention screw down crown on the Flieger Pro

(And yes, Laco mentions screw down crowns always when their models feature them, see the Frankfurt GMT for instance)


----------



## mrk

Hmm interesting i did miss that. Then the question still stands about what happens on screw down when it's already fully wound and you need to then screw it back down!


----------



## SwedishElite22

StufflerMike said:


> In Switzerland, the “Contrôle officiel suisse des chronomètres”, or COSC for short, carries out the chronometer tests on the basis of the ISO standard 3159 and only tests if “Swiss made”. The COSC does test movements only, so not the complete watch.
> 
> In Germany, chronometers are tested by the “State Office for Measurement and Calibration Thuringia”, LMET for short, in cooperation with the “Saxon State Office for Measurement and Calibration”, or SLME for short, in the Glashütte i / SA observatory in accordance with DIN 8319 .
> 
> For mechanical watches, tests according DIN 8319 correspond to the ISO requirements used by the COSC. However, DIN 8319 stipulates that a watch must be adjustable to the second and fully assembled, i.e. just as the customer wears it.
> 
> Test procedures in Glashütte (for Swiss COSC see www.cosc.ch).
> 
> 1st + 2nd day: watch in position "6 up" at 23 ° C
> 
> 3rd + 4th day: watch in position "3 up" at 23 ° C
> 
> 5th + 6th day: watch in position "9 up" at 23 ° C
> 
> 7th + 8th day: watch in position "dial down" at 23 ° C
> 
> 9th + 10th day: watch in position "dial up" at 23 ° C
> 
> 10th day: additional functional check of complications (if any)
> 
> Day 11: Watch in the "dial up" position at 8 ° C
> 
> Day 12: Watch in "dial up" position at 23 ° C
> 
> Day 13: Watch in "dial up" position at 38 ° C
> 
> 14th + 15th day: watch in position "6 up" at 23 ° C
> 
> Test criteria for mech. watches (movement> 20 mm) and corresponding tolerances:
> 
> Average daily gear (M) -4 to +6 seconds / day
> 
> Average daily rate deviation (V) max. 2 seconds / day
> 
> Greatest rate deviation (Vmax) max. 5 seconds / day
> 
> Difference between horizontal and vertical (D) -6 to +8 sec / day
> 
> greatest difference between the mean daily course and one of the courses (P) max. 10 sec./day
> 
> Primary compensation error (C)
> (Rate deviation per ° C) max. 0.6 sec./ ° C
> 
> Resumption of Gear (R)
> (Comparison of the 1st and 2nd day with the 15th day) max. 5 seconds / day
> 
> It is my understanding that the LMET/SLME does test German watches with swiss movements if required by the manufacturer, see Zeppelin 7620-1 with ETA 7753 or the Junkers 6658-1. However, chronometer tests are not cheap in Glashütte, that‘s why you will only find a couple of German watches with a chronometer certificate. The Zeppelin 7620-1 was issued for their anniversary, there‘s a certified Nomos 175 years of watchmaking in Glashütte, there are some Wempe Chronometerwerke watches, Mühle Teutonia II, GO Senator Chronometer.


The width and depth on your knowledge continues to impress and astound me. There are often times when I'm reading a thread, or starting one, that I'm hopefully you'll chime in. 

I sent you a PM to pick you brain on something whenever you have a moment. 

Again, thank you for your contributions. 



Laco Pforzheim said:


> Thanks for that explanation, Mike! You never stop learning  I thought that Swiss Made movements can be tested for COSC, no matter in which watch they were build afterwards. But probably they changed the rules in 2017, as today all the "customers" are Swiss (Rolex, Omega & Breitling etc.). Theoretically we can test our watches at the German testing institute in Glashütte, but it would increase the price of the watch dramatically as they only test full watches (not the movements like in Swittzerland). Especially for the individualized models like the Karlsruhe or Stuttgart this would be almost impossible as we would have to send the watches to the institute after building them according to the customers request.
> 
> We regulate every single watch again after assembling to check the precision and adjust them again if necessary.
> 
> For most Laco watches, the adjustment is even more precisely than stated in the regulations by Sellita / ETA or Miyota, to make sure, that the watch will work accurately even after shipping etc.


It makes a lot more sense after reading Mike's breakdown. I honestly assumed that a Swiss movement could still be certified by COSC regardless of what watch it was going into but I stand corrected. 

I can also completely understand why it doesn't make sense for the more standard production models. That said, for pieces that are already custom builds, I do wonder if it would be of interest to the consumer. If there is already a month (or however) long lead time on a custom Pro Flieger that is already (undoubtedly) bringing a cost in excess of the $1,050usd starting point, it could be a worthy 'custom' option for the customer to select. That is assuming the cost is the same per piece whether it's one watch being sent, or fifty. (Honestly, if such an option existed at say +$300-500 it probably would have been one I saved a little extra for and done. That said, if it more than doubled the cost of the watch itself then it's a whole different situation.) 

Also, thank you for confirming that your watchmakers regulate and adjust each watch before they leave the factory. It was an assumption I made when reading up on the movements and saw that Laco's stated tolerances for accuracy were tighter than Sellita's, but it's great to see it confirmed. 

For movements that are requested to be decorated, is the decoration done in-house, or is that done by Sellita, etc. before being sent to you? 

Lastly, I do echo @skuripanda in that seeing the watchmakers proof in the box upon arrival would be a very very nice touch. 

I do want to thank you, @watchobserver @StufflerMike & @Laco Pforzheim for all the help and insight along the way. Earlier this week I placed an order for a sandblasted 43mm Karlsruhe Pro with a date less, decorated, top grade movement, and a sapphire case back to admire it through. 



skuripanda said:


> I mentioned this to Dorothea and would like to repeat it here:
> 
> I really appreciate how the München chrono includes the watchmaker's proof of testing the watch accuracy (the proof is a small printout that Laco includes in the Certificate, and the proof is signed, dated and stamped).I think it would be very appropriate if you included such a proof with all high end watches that you send to customers. I was a shame that my Replica did not come with it.
> 
> I know it's not the same as having the watches officially tested at Glasshüte, but it gives the customers a lot of peace of mind and adds a lot of credibility and sense of effort that goes into building Laco watches, and it's not a big effort for Laco (as I assume you internally regulate and test all watches, especially high end ones).


This would be a very very nice touch. I would be over the moon to see something like that upon opening my Karlsruhe. 



mrk said:


> That's an interesting question I'd it thought about! Is it definitely a screw down crown in that case or are the hand wind ones simply non screw down?


In an earlier reply on this thread I believe it was confirmed that all versions of the Pro, regardless of them being auto or hand wind, came with a screw down crown. This was done more to provide the 20m of WR vs the 10m.


----------



## mrk

Ah no I meant in the context of how does the hand wind work if it's a screw down crown. I imagined there would be a click or something you hear as you approach fully wound so you don't go too far into resistance and not be able to screw the crown back.

I asked Laco that in an email and they said the crown will give some feedback as normal when the spring is fully wound, the crown also has a clutch so when you push it in to screw it down, you won't be over-winding the spring. This is how other watchmakers also go about screw down crown implementations on their hand wind watches!


----------



## SCD

Laco Pro Flieger just arrived. Went for 40mm, sandblasted, sterile, elabore undecorated auto. It’s a beaut! Love the proportions of the dial.


----------



## mrk

Pics front and back??

Edit* I see you added one pic


----------



## SCD

mrk said:


> Pics front and back??
> 
> Edit* I see you added one pic


I got the closed case back. Seemed more in keeping with the tool aspect. If I’d known for sure how much I’d like it, in hindsight, I should have sprung to the top grade movement, but I don’t think it makes a difference anyway. The modern movements are all so precise.


----------



## skuripanda

In my opinion, closed case back makes fairly little sense for the Pro, because the case back (when it's in the closed configuration) doesn't look like the original B-uhr anyway. If you want to keep the flieger watch genuine, then it's better to opt for one of the Original Pilot watches which are closer to what the original B-urh was (case shape, lugs, crown, case back...).

And if you make the sensible choice and go for the open case back, then it's decorated top grade or bust


----------



## mrk

I've gone for the decorated top grade! 

Will be interesting to compare the differences in decoration vs the top grade 215-1 on my Stowa Bronze hand wind.


----------



## SCD

‘nother pic


----------



## mrk

Do you have a 36mm watch of similar thickness too? Would be interested to see a size comparison whilst I wait for my 37mm to arrive!


----------



## skuripanda

I placed my order today and I couldn't be happier. My wife will be very happy with this watch and it will be a perfect gift for our 20th anniversary this year... Unfortunately not a complete surprise, because I did let her choose the precise parameters of the watch (I told her to pick any watch on Laco's website, and this is the one she came up with).

Laco Stuttgart Pro
A-dial
40mm
automatic movement
top grade movement
decorated refined finish with blued screws, geneve strips, the works
sapphire double-anti-reflective coated crystal
sapphire crystal exhibition case back
dark sandblasted case
dial without date display, without Laco logo or "made in germany" text
black leather strap

I have added one small surprise on the watch that she doesn't know about, a unique engraving on the rotor that reflects the identical unique engraving we have on our wedding rings. Laco was kind enough to accomodate it for me as it's not just simple text in a standard font, so it will be a bit unique in that regard.


----------



## whiskeymuscles

Your wife has excellent taste in watches! This is the exact same configuration I would go with if I were to get a PRO.

Edit: Oops, sorry. I was referring to @skuripanda last comment. I forgot to quote.


----------



## schiorean

Hi,

One of the watches I'm considering to buy in the near future is the 40mm Karlsruhe Pro but I'm not sure what finishing to choose. I never saw a dark sandblasted Laco live, although many of you seem really impressed when you see it live. I'm leaning for the brushed version though, I'm afraid the dark sandblast looks too toolish for my liking, and might also make the watch look larger.


Which finishing is more able to "hide" scratches from being visible?
Is the brushed case quality on par with Stowa brushed cases?

Thank you.


----------



## skuripanda

schiorean said:


> Hi,
> 
> One of the watches I'm considering to buy in the near future is the 40mm Karlsruhe Pro but I'm not sure what finishing to choose. I never saw a dark sandblasted Laco live, although many of you seem really impressed when you see it live. I'm leaning for the brushed version though, I'm afraid the dark sandblast looks too toolish for my liking, and might also make the watch look larger.
> 
> 
> Which finishing is more able to "hide" scratches from being visible?
> Is the brushed case quality on par with Stowa brushed cases?
> 
> Thank you.


I love the toolish look of the sandblasted finish, and from what I hear (but cannot confirm), the sandblasted finish should be able to hide small scratches better.

I would say that it depends on whether you want your flieger watch to look fairly authentic to what the original was, or if you want a more modern look.
Original pilot navigator watches were gray painted to prevent glare from the case. Hence, the sandblasted finish is definitely the more authentic one.
And in my opinion the sandblasted finish fits better with the overall toolish design of the watch.

I don't have a Stowa, nor a higher grade brushed finish Laco but I am confident the quality should be on par.


----------



## watchobserver

skuripanda said:


> the sandblasted finish should be able to hide small scratches better.


It looks gorgeous, but I am not convinced of this.

It was sufficient for me to have the two metallic discs of the original leather strap touch the case to leave four micro scratches on the case itself.

What I mean with touch: lift the watch from the two sides of the strap and have the strap form a triangle with the watch. This will make the two metallic disks of each side touch the case. There will be marks afterwards. I found them on one side first, suspected of the disks, then simply lifted the other side of the strap, to find the same marks afterwards. No impact, merely touching a couple of times.

Granted, these are as big as a grain of salt, and you can see them only when light hits the case. I don't care about them.

But I am not convinced that sandblasting hides scratches that easily or better than brushing. I am still delighted that I went for this finishing.

Edit: a pic shows it better. Here I am having light hit one of the two marks for this side. Again, not complaining, these are microscopic. My point is on the finishing making the watch more scratch resistant.
Edit2: showing both of them from the same side


----------



## skuripanda

I'll just say this: the worst part of ordering a watch from Laco is waiting 10-12 working days for the watch to be assembled (custom orders). My parents never taught me the value of patience...


----------



## watchobserver

skuripanda said:


> I'll just say this: the worst part of ordering a watch from Laco is waiting 10-12 working days for the watch to be assembled (custom orders). My parents never taught me the value of patience...


It was 13 full days for me


----------



## skuripanda

watchobserver said:


> It was 13 full days for me


----------



## Killshakes

Anyone here got the 37mm variant, and can you post some photos? I’m curious to see one on-wrist.

I’m considering the 37mm / B-dial / brushed / logo / no date combo.


----------



## schiorean

Killshakes said:


> Anyone here got the 37mm variant, and can you post some photos? I’m curious to see one on-wrist.











Got my Flieger Pro 37mm sandblasted with every upgrade...


My previous Laco experience was the Aachen 39mm with the movement upgrade option and double sided AR crystal. I like dthat watch but at 39mm it was a little on the thick side for that case and I fancied a more substantial movement so sold it on for a Stowa. I missed the Type-B dial though so...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## schiorean

Q: The sandblasting on PRO is exactly the same (color, texture) as on Pilot Original series?


----------



## skuripanda

schiorean said:


> Q: The sandblasting on PRO is exactly the same (color, texture) as on Pilot Original series?


From all the photo material I have seen, it appears so, but I will be able to confirm in a week or two when I receive my watch and compare it to the Replica.

I can confirm that the Replica 45 dark sandblasted finish is identical to the München Chrono dark sandblasted finish, so I would assume they have the same process for all of the watches with this finish.


----------



## schiorean

@skuripanda many thanks, looking forward for the pics after you receive it !
I saw in your topic that you also have brushed LACO watches. Which finishing do you like more? Is sandblasting holding up well for you against micro scratches?


----------



## skuripanda

schiorean said:


> @skuripanda many thanks, looking forward for the pics after you receive it !
> I saw in your topic that you also have brushed LACO watches. Which finishing do you like more? Is sandblasting holding up well for you against micro scratches?


In the sheer looks department, the sandblasted finish for me personally just can't be beat. But that's my own biased opinion. If you like polished mirror finish look, then the sandblasted finish might look... almost fake, like matte PVD coating maybe. But to me it looks great, like a proper tool watch as opposed to a shiny wrist jewelry.
Scratches... I can't really judge, I haven't owned them for long enough and I do take care of the watches, so I haven't bumped them into anything yet, not enough to leave a mark. My gut tells me nothing lasts forever... I would love to see the sandblasted Laco watch after years of use, though.


----------



## Laco Pforzheim

schiorean said:


> Q: The sandblasting on PRO is exactly the same (color, texture) as on Pilot Original series?


Yes it's the same surface treatment on the Original series as well as on the PRO series (and on other models like the München or Frankfurt GMT).


----------



## mrk

skuripanda said:


> In the sheer looks department, the sandblasted finish for me personally just can't be beat. But that's my own biased opinion. If you like polished mirror finish look, then the sandblasted finish might look... almost fake, like matte PVD coating maybe. But to me it looks great, like a proper tool watch as opposed to a shiny wrist jewelry.
> Scratches... I can't really judge, I haven't owned them for long enough and I do take care of the watches, so I haven't bumped them into anything yet, not enough to leave a mark. My gut tells me nothing lasts forever... I would love to see the sandblasted Laco watch after years of use, though.


My case does not have any scratches yet but where I've been swapping straps I can see some silver coming out from where the spring bar has been rubbing on one of the lug areas. Cannot be seen when a strap is on of course but just for reference on what to expect. I have no idea if the inside of the lugs is untreated though so may be more prone to scratches if metal is rubbing against it?


----------



## watchobserver

mrk said:


> I have no idea if the inside of the lugs is untreated though so may be more prone to scratches if metal is rubbing against it?


Well, if you see my report one page ago, you might not be much surprised anymore that it scratches easily.


----------



## mrk

watchobserver said:


> It looks gorgeous, but I am not convinced of this.
> 
> It was sufficient for me to have the two metallic discs of the original leather strap touch the case to leave four micro scratches on the case itself.
> 
> What I mean with touch: lift the watch from the two sides of the strap and have the strap form a triangle with the watch. This will make the two metallic disks of each side touch the case. There will be marks afterwards. I found them on one side first, suspected of the disks, then simply lifted the other side of the strap, to find the same marks afterwards. No impact, merely touching a couple of times.
> 
> Granted, these are as big as a grain of salt, and you can see them only when light hits the case. I don't care about them.
> 
> But I am not convinced that sandblasting hides scratches that easily or better than brushing. I am still delighted that I went for this finishing.
> 
> Edit: a pic shows it better. Here I am having light hit one of the two marks for this side. Again, not complaining, these are microscopic. My point is on the finishing making the watch more scratch resistant.
> Edit2: showing both of them from the same side
> 
> View attachment 16394386
> View attachment 16394397


Ah this clarifies things a bit, so looks like because of the sandblast and greying, scratches will show the silver maybe easier than brushed/polished which would otherwise "mask" the scratches under most lighting conditions.
I'll be careful not to ding the case!


----------



## schiorean

Finally after lots of thinking over the pros and cons I ordered a Karlsruhe with the sandblast finishing. Even though some scratches may be more visible on this finishing, it is the one that is true to this watch style. And in all honesty after seeing a bunch of long term youtube reviews of the original pilot, the finishing withstands the test of time quite nicely imo.

Thank you all and now the waiting game begins... ⌚


----------



## whiskeymuscles

schiorean said:


> Finally after lots of thinking over the pros and cons I ordered a Karlsruhe with the sandblast finishing. Even though some scratches may be more visible on this finishing, it is the one that is true to this watch style. And in all honesty after seeing a bunch of long term youtube reviews of the original pilot, the finishing withstands the test of time quite nicely imo.
> 
> Thank you all and now the waiting game begins...


Excellent choice! You won't be disappointed.


----------



## mrk

Pics, don't forget pics when it arrives!


----------



## skuripanda

schiorean said:


> Finally after lots of thinking over the pros and cons I ordered a Karlsruhe with the sandblast finishing. Even though some scratches may be more visible on this finishing, it is the one that is true to this watch style. And in all honesty after seeing a bunch of long term youtube reviews of the original pilot, the finishing withstands the test of time quite nicely imo.
> 
> Thank you all and now the waiting game begins... ⌚


Welcome to the fan club 
Everything about Laco watches is amazing, except for the waiting.


----------



## watchobserver

schiorean said:


> Finally after lots of thinking over the pros and cons I ordered a Karlsruhe with the sandblast finishing. Even though some scratches may be more visible on this finishing, it is the one that is true to this watch style. And in all honesty after seeing a bunch of long term youtube reviews of the original pilot, the finishing withstands the test of time quite nicely imo.
> 
> Thank you all and now the waiting game begins... ⌚


Welcome to the club! You'll love it!


----------



## mrk

And one for lume's sake.


----------



## skuripanda

The Stuttgart Pro I ordered for my wife for our 20th anniversary arrived today and I snapped a few quick pictures (she isn't a watch nerd so I know she doesn't frequent this forum and there is little chance she will see this before she receives the watch).

I have nothing but good things to say about Laco and their willingness to go above and beyond to make a special watch for me. Dorothea is the kindest person you could ever hope to have as your contact there... And Mr. Agotzikis, their technical director, took it upon himself to personally carry out the unique rotor engraving I wanted for this watch, and accommodated my wishes beyond Laco's standard rotor offerings for this movement.

The watch is:
Stuttgart Pro, A-dial
40mm diameter
dark sandblasted case
exhibition case back
double AR coated sapphire crystal
dial without the logo or text
automatic movement, no date
top grade movement upgrade
decorated movement upgrade
unique rotor engraving
black strap

It looks amazing, truly beautiful. The top grade decorated movement really shines, and the unique rotor that Mr. Agotzikis selected (without the "jewels" standard text, a slightly different rotor shape and with some additional surface decorations that aren't present on the standard rotor) really helps the great work with the custom design engraving. Unfortunately, the photo of the movement and the engraving isn't the best, I need to bring the watch to work to take proper macro shots of it.


----------



## BundyBear

skuripanda said:


> The Stuttgart Pro I ordered for my wife for our 20th anniversary arrived today and I snapped a few quick pictures (she isn't a watch nerd so I know she doesn't frequent this forum and there is little chance she will see this before she receives the watch).
> 
> I have nothing but good things to say about Laco and their willingness to go above and beyond to make a special watch for me. Dorothea is the kindest person you could ever hope to have as your contact there... And Mr. Agotzikis, their technical director, took it upon himself to personally carry out the unique rotor engraving I wanted for this watch, and accommodated my wishes beyond Laco's standard rotor offerings for this movement.
> 
> The watch is:
> Stuttgart Pro, A-dial
> 40mm diameter
> dark sandblasted case
> exhibition case back
> double AR coated sapphire crystal
> dial without the logo or text
> automatic movement, no date
> top grade movement upgrade
> decorated movement upgrade
> unique rotor engraving
> black strap
> 
> It looks amazing, truly beautiful. The top grade decorated movement really shines, and the unique rotor that Mr. Agotzikis selected (without the "jewels" standard text, a slightly different rotor shape and with some additional surface decorations that aren't present on the standard rotor) really helps the great work with the custom design engraving. Unfortunately, the photo of the movement and the engraving isn't the best, I need to bring the watch to work to take proper macro shots of it.
> 
> View attachment 16453209
> 
> 
> View attachment 16453210
> 
> 
> View attachment 16453212


Awesome watch. And I think she is now the one posting here using the Laco handle.


----------



## skuripanda

BundyBear said:


> Awesome watch. And I think she is now the one posting here using the Laco handle.


I have had the pleasure of also corresponding with Mrs. Renz, but I was referring to a different Dorothea


----------



## BundyBear

skuripanda said:


> I have had the pleasure of also corresponding with Mrs. Renz, but I was referring to a different Dorothea


Only @Laco Pforzheim knows.


----------



## StufflerMike

BundyBear said:


> Only @Laco Pforzheim knows.


I think it is Sarah😉


----------



## Laco Pforzheim

BundyBear said:


> Only @Laco Pforzheim knows.





StufflerMike said:


> I think it is Sarah😉


Yes, Sarah here 😄 I'm handling the marketing topics, as well as social media or the Laco account here in the forum. Dorothea Günther takes care about special orders like the one from @skuripanda and many other topics (the good soul of Laco 😉). And Dorothee (Mrs. Renz) is managing all the orders from our onlineshop, retailers etc. Secret revealed, but obviously not easy to distinguish both Doro's, especially in English with only the forenames 😊


----------



## skuripanda

Having had the good fortune of meeting Mrs. Günther several times, I can confirm that she is the good soul of Laco.


----------



## schiorean

Got my watch yesterday. 40mm, top grade, anti reflective coating on both sides. Absolutely loving it! Big props to Laco, awesome customer care as well.
The anti reflective coating on both sides is worth every penny, sometimes the crystal disappears (wife said it, not me!).

In the pictures below I'm including a shot along a Hamilton Khaki Auto 38.


----------



## mrk

Very nice! Where did you get that remove before slight tag btw? I need one!
The AR is wicked isn't it? The underside AR on my Stowa can disappear too but because the crystal is more domed than on the Laco, you get a different kind of effect, both look great though and the blue tint on the Laco upgrade AR is just too cool.


----------



## skuripanda

mrk said:


> Very nice! Where did you get that remove before slight tag btw? I need one!
> The AR is wicked isn't it? The underside AR on my Stowa can disappear too but because the crystal is more domed than on the Laco, you get a different kind of effect, both look great though and the blue tint on the Laco upgrade AR is just too cool.


They sell the tag extra under accessories.

Such a beautiful watch! And I can't agree more on everything: AR coating is top notch, and their customer service is bar none.

I'll admit that the Stuttgart Pro I bought for my wife... might end up on my wrist more than once.


----------



## schiorean

mrk said:


> Very nice! Where did you get that remove before slight tag btw? I need one!


I got it from Laco, it was a gift because of a shipping issue. Very nice gesture from Laco, truly a peoples company. You can buy it directly from Laco Accessories by Laco Watches | Model Keyholder "Remove before flight".



> The AR is wicked isn't it? The underside AR on my Stowa can disappear too but because the crystal is more domed than on the Laco, you get a different kind of effect, both look great though and the blue tint on the Laco upgrade AR is just too cool.


Wicked indeed! Can't see how nice it is from the pictures. When I asked about it Laco sent me a picture with watches with and without the extra coating. Didn't see much difference, but Laco contact said the dial and hands are clearly nicer with the extra coating. They were right.


----------



## mrk

My Laco watches have only ever had the upgraded AR so I have no experience with just the basic crystal really, but yeah I would not choose any other crystal when buying new again too. The Aachen I had for like a year never had scratches etc too and the order sheet said the AR upgrade on that was a 13 layer coating (11 on top, 2 underside) - So I imagine the same applies to the latest crystals too as the look is very familiar.


----------



## skuripanda

My Nürnberg (Aachen predecessor) came with a mineral glass which I later had Laco replace with a sapphire... But the sapphire has no AR coating. And the difference between my Nürnberg and my double-AR coated Replica and München, as well as Stuttgart Pro, is simply staggering.
It's not something I've ever been aware of when just owning the Nürnberg, but that watch reflects every source of light and if the source of light is white, the reflection will be very bright white. And when that happens, you cannot see the dial underneath.

The double coated watches, however, turn white light sources (windows, lights in my appartment etc) into a very subdued blue/grey, and you can see the dial and hands even through those reflections very clearly.

When I have a chance, I will take a photo of both examples reflecting the same light source.

I do not own any Laco watches with just underside AR coating, though, so I can't judge how that works, and if it's significantly worse than double coating (or if it's any better than no coating at all).

I have heard, however, that with double AR coated crystals, it's possible that the top coating can get scratched (which can't happen with a sapphire crystal with no top coating). Hasn't happened to me yet.


----------



## StufflerMike

mrk said:


> Very nice! Where did you get that remove before slight tag btw? I need one!
> The AR is wicked isn't it? The underside AR on my Stowa can disappear too but because the crystal is more domed than on the Laco, you get a different kind of effect, both look great though and the blue tint on the Laco upgrade AR is just too cool.


If you want a tag (or two) from another company plus ball pen for free drop me a PM.


----------



## mrk

Yep those are interesting points, I only have one mineral crystal watch which is a boxed variety on the Hamilton Khaki Pilot Pioneer Mechanical, but that crystal is double AR coated, so whilst mineral is less reflective than sapphire with no AR coating, it is even more glare free on that watch.

Here's a side by side AR comparison between my Stowa which has underside AR which a very faint blue tint, vs the double sided AR on the Laco:










And here's a comparison with the same light sources off angle so they don't reflect off the crystal to give an idea of how sidelight hitting the surface glares on each crystal:










I'd say both are very very good, the Laco's double sided AR does a great job at diffusion and masking out soft light sources and stuff but direct light like my LED torch I found that the Stowa dial is slightly more legible if I shine the torch directly at the crystal so the whole beam is central.


----------



## skuripanda

Here is a direct comparison between my watches and their AR coating (or lack there of) effectiveness, when reflecting a direct source of light (in this case, a window).

Top left: Laco Cottbus, flat mineral crystal, no AR coating
Top middle: Laco München, domed sapphire crystal, double AR coating
Top right: Laco Nürnberg, flat sapphire crystal, no AR coating
Bottom left: Hamilton Pilot Pioneer 43mm, domed sapphire crystal, AR coating (unsure if top side and underside, or if it is underside only?)
Bottom middle: Hamilton Panda, domed sapphire crystal, AR coating (unknown how much AR coating)
Bottom right: Laco Replica 45, double domed sapphire crystal, double AR coating










First and foremost, it is blatantly clear that crystals with no AR coating are awful and dials become illegible if they reflect light sources (Laco Cottbus top left and Laco Nürnberg top right)
But the Cottbus performs better than the Nürnberg because the Cottbus has polished metal dial numbers and hands, whereas the Nürnberg has white printed dial markings and lumed hands with flat black edges - the metal indeces and hands reflect light and help with legibility.

Second, it is interesting to see that the flatter sapphire of the München performs worse than the double domed crystals of the Hamiltons and the Laco Replica. Hamilton's AR coating is as good (if not better) as the best scenario AR coating on the Laco Replica 45, because all of these watches are sporting double domed (with a very pronounced curvature) crystals. So, I'd say it is desireable to have your watch crystal curved instead of flat.

Third, it's interesting to compare the blueish hue AR coating of the Laco Replica and München, versus the more greenish AR coating of the Hamiltons (less visible on the Panda).

And last but not least, it is very interesting to observe how dial color and texture helps with anti-reflective properties of the crystal... The black grainy textured dial of the Pilot Pioneer, and the cream white dial of the Panda help mitigate reflections more than the matte black of the Laco. That being said, as you can see, the double AR coating of the Laco Replica makes the watch perfectly readable in the worst conditions, and is well worth the premium you pay on it.


I don't own any single-coated (underside only) Lacos, so I can't judge how those would perform, but in my opinion AR coating is a must have, and Laco is doing a spectacular job.


----------



## schiorean

I've been thinking for a while before posting this... It looks to me that the hour hand is not hitting the center of the hourly dots at :00, there's a delay of 2 to 3 minutes. This is especially visible on the left side of the dial 7 -> 12 hours.
Am I being anal assuming perfect dial & hands alignment on a $1000+ watch? It's not a big issue for me, just wondering as this is my first watch that passed the $1000 mark.
Is anyone with a Karlsruhe kind enough to check?


----------



## mrk

schiorean said:


> I've been thinking for a while before posting this... It looks to me that the hour hand is not hitting the center of the hourly dots at :00, there's a delay of 2 to 3 minutes. This is especially visible on the left side of the dial 7 -> 12 hours.
> Am I being anal assuming perfect dial & hands alignment on a $1000+ watch? It's not a big issue for me, just wondering as this is my first watch that passed the $1000 mark.
> Is anyone with a Karlsruhe kind enough to check?
> 
> 
> View attachment 16481001
> View attachment 16481000


Interesting, looks like yours could have received a knock that budged the minutes hand forwards a bit or something maybe?

I expect correct alignment on any watch that isn't a fashion watch (or a Seiko ) really.

Mine looks perfect:










I'd contact @Laco Pforzheim


----------



## mrk

skuripanda said:


> Here is a direct comparison between my watches and their AR coating (or lack there of) effectiveness, when reflecting a direct source of light (in this case, a window).
> 
> Top left: Laco Cottbus, flat mineral crystal, no AR coating
> Top middle: Laco München, domed sapphire crystal, double AR coating
> Top right: Laco Nürnberg, flat sapphire crystal, no AR coating
> Bottom left: Hamilton Pilot Pioneer 43mm, domed sapphire crystal, AR coating (unsure if top side and underside, or if it is underside only?)
> Bottom middle: Hamilton Panda, domed sapphire crystal, AR coating (unknown how much AR coating)
> Bottom right: Laco Replica 45, double domed sapphire crystal, double AR coating
> 
> View attachment 16480153
> 
> 
> First and foremost, it is blatantly clear that crystals with no AR coating are awful and dials become illegible if they reflect light sources (Laco Cottbus top left and Laco Nürnberg top right)
> But the Cottbus performs better than the Nürnberg because the Cottbus has polished metal dial numbers and hands, whereas the Nürnberg has white printed dial markings and lumed hands with flat black edges - the metal indeces and hands reflect light and help with legibility.
> 
> Second, it is interesting to see that the flatter sapphire of the München performs worse than the double domed crystals of the Hamiltons and the Laco Replica. Hamilton's AR coating is as good (if not better) as the best scenario AR coating on the Laco Replica 45, because all of these watches are sporting double domed (with a very pronounced curvature) crystals. So, I'd say it is desireable to have your watch crystal curved instead of flat.
> 
> Third, it's interesting to compare the blueish hue AR coating of the Laco Replica and München, versus the more greenish AR coating of the Hamiltons (less visible on the Panda).
> 
> And last but not least, it is very interesting to observe how dial color and texture helps with anti-reflective properties of the crystal... The black grainy textured dial of the Pilot Pioneer, and the cream white dial of the Panda help mitigate reflections more than the matte black of the Laco. That being said, as you can see, the double AR coating of the Laco Replica makes the watch perfectly readable in the worst conditions, and is well worth the premium you pay on it.
> 
> 
> I don't own any single-coated (underside only) Lacos, so I can't judge how those would perform, but in my opinion AR coating is a must have, and Laco is doing a spectacular job.


Also interesting! I have a Hamilton Khaki Pilot Pioneer Mechanical which has a boxed dome mineral crystal which has double AR coating which you rarely see (if at all??) - Mineral is said to be less reflective than sapphire on its own, so the double AR coating adds even more clarity which I find superb when looking at the textured dial. Just oozes a certain quality. It doesn't have a clear blue hue though but it is a very faint hint of blue much like how the Stowa underside only AR looks under sunlight in terms of colour hue.


----------



## watchobserver

schiorean said:


> Is anyone with a Karlsruhe kind enough to check?


Mine does not have this issue but I have just sent it back to them because the crystal is not leveled and the minute hand does not have a uniform lume. They replied me immediately to send it and they will fix it. I assume the same will be for you. Good luck!


----------



## BundyBear

skuripanda said:


> Here is a direct comparison between my watches and their AR coating (or lack there of) effectiveness, when reflecting a direct source of light (in this case, a window).
> 
> First and foremost, it is blatantly clear that crystals with no AR coating are awful and dials become illegible if they reflect light sources
> 
> Second, it is interesting to see that the flatter sapphire of the München performs worse than the double domed crystals of the Hamiltons and the Laco Replica.
> 
> Third, it's interesting to compare the blueish hue AR coating of the Laco Replica and München, versus the more greenish AR coating of the Hamiltons (less visible on the Panda).
> 
> And last but not least, it is very interesting to observe how dial color and texture helps with anti-reflective properties of the crystal...


Thanks for sharing your little experiment at home. I tend to agree with your conclusion. However, I don't have much issue with watches without AR. Years ago, I decided that I like no AR because I had one where the AR flaked and the result is very awful. With reflection, I can at least rotate my wrist to tell time.

End of the day, depends on what we are looking out for. For example, people swoon over a Rolex but those watches had no AR on them and has one of the most reflective sapphire glass in the market.


----------



## TgeekB

BundyBear said:


> Thanks for sharing your little experiment at home. I tend to agree with your conclusion. However, I don't have much issue with watches without AR. Years ago, I decided that I like no AR because I had one where the AR flaked and the result is very awful. With reflection, I can at least rotate my wrist to tell time.
> 
> End of the day, depends on what we are looking out for. For example, people swoon over a Rolex but those watches had no AR on them and has one of the most reflective sapphire glass in the market.


I think it’s just one of those things some people get hooked on, like lume. I’ve never had a problem reading any of my watches outdoors. It’s not like you can’t adjust your wrist slightly. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## skuripanda

schiorean said:


> I've been thinking for a while before posting this... It looks to me that the hour hand is not hitting the center of the hourly dots at :00, there's a delay of 2 to 3 minutes. This is especially visible on the left side of the dial 7 -> 12 hours.
> Am I being anal assuming perfect dial & hands alignment on a $1000+ watch? It's not a big issue for me, just wondering as this is my first watch that passed the $1000 mark.
> Is anyone with a Karlsruhe kind enough to check?
> 
> 
> View attachment 16481001
> View attachment 16481000


Yeesh, you HAD to post this and make me take a look at mine, didn't you?
My $1900 Replica's hour hand hits the centers of the dots with the minute hand at 57 and now I'm hearing voices in my head.


----------



## watchobserver

Just gotten back my Karlsruhe Pro from warranty repair, where the hands have been replaced for lume issues (fixed).
I was about to freak out, given that I also have the offset hour hand problem, apparently less prominent than the one of @schiorean (mine is likely 1 minute off).
















But then I played with it a little. The offset issue is not always present.















My explanation is that the dial has very little printing errors here and there, and that the hour is offset in some places. Or, that is a Sellita issue. No idea.

I also _think_, but now I might placebo myself with this, that it got better by setting time counterclockwise.

@schiorean, could you try seeing if the issue you have is present all around, and if setting time counterclockwise helps?


----------



## schiorean

watchobserver said:


> I also _think_, but now I might placebo myself with this, that it got better by setting time counterclockwise.
> could you try seeing if the issue you have is present all around, and if setting time counterclockwise helps?


Thanks for the info but I can't test this, I had to send it for service after I encountered an issue with the crown. Curious if Laco will fix the alignment issue (I mentioned the alignment problem when I sent the watch).


----------



## skuripanda

I will hold off on the minor hands alignment issue on my Replica for the time being. I am seeing Mrs. Dorothea and Mr. Rücker in september and will talk to them there about it, and may just hand the watch to them on the spot, if needed. It's not an issue I really notice when wearing the watch, even if it is slightly annoying me in my mind.

And yes, I also noticed that adjusting time clockwise or counterclockwise makes a difference in how much discrepancy there is in the hours/minutes hand alignment, on my Replica as well. Like there is a little free play of the minute gears or something. I guess that's simply the tolerances within the Sellita movement. My Valjoux 7750 based München is much worse in this regard (there is a lot more noticeable free play of the minutes hand there), and I see the same on my Valjoux 7753 based Hamilton chrono, so I'd dare say that these tolerances are normal, to a degree.


----------



## watchobserver

skuripanda said:


> And yes, I also noticed that adjusting time clockwise or counterclockwise makes a difference in how much discrepancy there is in the hours/minutes hand alignment, on my Replica as well.


I missed your last sentence before, that you also have this issue, but thank you for confirming that there is some play to..play with!


----------



## mrk

All things considered I'd say a little deviation on the hands is no issue at all really but it's good that Laco easily reachable and they will take watches in for service if such things are brought to attention!

Yeah the alignment will likely vary between movements/calibrations etc. not a major issue really unless it was way out but doesn't seem to be the acse so just


StufflerMike said:


> If you want a tag (or two) from another company plus ball pen for free drop me a PM.


Just to say thanks to Mile for sending me two tags by air mail, most kind and they are superb


----------



## schiorean

Still loving it.


----------



## gdanko

Really digging the quality of the straps on that one. Very nicely done!


----------



## schiorean

gdanko said:


> Really digging the quality of the straps on that one. Very nicely done!


Agree. Besides the Laco, I only have a Hamilthon Khaki Automatic on strap but the Laco strap is much better, imo.


----------



## watchobserver

Speaking of the strap. Anyone has info on any water resistance properties of the leather strap?


----------



## mrk

the leather straps have no water resistance.


----------



## skuripanda

If you want water resistance, Hirsch makes great straps that are declared to be 100m water resistant. Unfortunately they don't make a flieger style strap with rivets, but their Heavy Calf in dark brown looks quite good and I plan on getting one for my München chrono.
Not all their models are water resistant, so look for the Runner, Mariner, Heavy Calf, Grand Duke or Carbon. The water resistant models (full leather, not rubber/leather combo) are easily identified by the blue stitching on the bottom side (normal color stitching top).


----------



## mrk

Are Laco's hands lumed on the underside too or are they simply very thin? Because on my Pro I notice when the lume is charged up that the lume lights up the dial under the hands too!

Look at this comparison vs the Stowa, both use the same lume compound:


----------



## skuripanda

Usually, watch hands meant for lume are just an empty frame (in this case, sword shaped). Lume is applied from the bottom, because lume is basically a powder mixed with a fixer liquid, which turns it into a somewhat liquid paste.
When you apply lume to watch hands, you do it from the bottom, and the lume paste fills out the gap inside the hand frame but doesn't seep through to the front. This keeps the top part of the watch hands frame pretty and polished and blued steel, while the lume on the bottom usually can go edge to edge of the hands. So basically, lumed hands are lumed on both sides.

This is why often (and on Lacos it does as well) lume can, when thoroughly charged, shine on the dial as seen on your pictures.

I am not sure how Stowa applies lume to their hands. It could be they do additional work, maybe they paint the lumed bottom to make it matte... or their hand construction is different (maybe instead of a frame, they have flat hands with raised edges and they apply lume from the top, like pouring it into a bowl?).

One thing that looks apparent from this image: there is more lume on Laco, it shines brighter than Stowa.


Here is a video of how lume is usually applied:


----------



## mrk

skuripanda said:


> Usually, watch hands meant for lume are just an empty frame (in this case, sword shaped). Lume is applied from the bottom, because lume is basically a powder mixed with a fixer liquid, which turns it into a somewhat liquid paste.
> When you apply lume to watch hands, you do it from the bottom, and the lume paste fills out the gap inside the hand frame but doesn't seep through to the front. This keeps the top part of the watch hands frame pretty and polished and blued steel, while the lume on the bottom usually can go edge to edge of the hands. So basically, lumed hands are lumed on both sides.
> 
> This is why often (and on Lacos it does as well) lume can, when thoroughly charged, shine on the dial as seen on your pictures.
> 
> I am not sure how Stowa applies lume to their hands. It could be they do additional work, maybe they paint the lumed bottom to make it matte... or their hand construction is different (maybe instead of a frame, they have flat hands with raised edges and they apply lume from the top, like pouring it into a bowl?).
> 
> One thing that looks apparent from this image: there is more lume on Laco, it shines brighter than Stowa.
> 
> 
> Here is a video of how lume is usually applied:


That makes sense and I kinda like both I guess. Was just an interesting observation I'd not noticed before. I think Stowa do some additional work perhaps. The initial full charge appears brighter on the Laco but they both settle to a more normal glow which is very similar between them in a couple of minutes and then remain glowing for a few hours into the night both similarly. It's the old radium colouring of the lume on the Stowa Bronze that makes it glow a little less bright on initial full charge vs the whiter day glow colour of the C3 Laco use. I imagine the non Bronze versions of the Stowa which also use white lume to be on the same initial charged brightness as Laco though.

Either way, both have exceptional lume vs most other watches out there


----------



## skuripanda

Oh I agree, these fliegers are lume monsters. Even budget Lacos in the $400 range are crazy brightly lumed and outshine all of my other watches by several orders of magnitude.


----------



## WJon

My wrist is 6.5 inches and I'm torn between the 37mm and 40mm. 37mm is a no-brainer for smaller wrists like mine. But I feel I can pull off the 40mm with it's curved lugs, also since it's a Flieger it should feel/look 'bigger'.


----------



## skuripanda

WJon said:


> My wrist is 6.5 inches and I'm torn between the 37mm and 40mm. 37mm is a no-brainer for smaller wrists like mine. But I feel I can pull off the 40mm with it's curved lugs, also since it's a Flieger it should feel/look 'bigger'.


My wife wears the 38mm Cottbus on a 6.5inch wrist with no issues and I bought her the 40mm Stuttgart Pro as I think it will look fine and have a bit more presence that such a fine watch deserves. Luckily, these are fairly thin watches at only 11mm, and curved lugs should help with how they conform to the wrist. She will receive it next week for our anniversary.
So I think you can pull off the 40mm fine.


----------



## whiskeymuscles

WJon said:


> My wrist is 6.5 inches and I'm torn between the 37mm and 40mm. 37mm is a no-brainer for smaller wrists like mine. But I feel I can pull off the 40mm with it's curved lugs, also since it's a Flieger it should feel/look 'bigger'.


I know you are looking at the PRO with the curved lugs, but I thought I would share some pics of my Kempten (39mm) with similar sized wrists (barely over 6.5). I think it fits pretty good, and the curved lugs on the pro should appear even smaller.


----------



## Laco Pforzheim

6.5 inches is really something in between, so you can go for the 37 mm one (if you're used to wear smaller watches and feel comfortable with it) or the 40 mm version as well. But especially on a male wrist, and as you mentioned pilot watches can have a little bit more presence, we would recommend you to go for the 40 mm. We often have customers who tend to stay in their "comfort zone" when ordering or trying the watch (and go for the smaller size) but will go for the next size then in direct comparison.


----------



## schiorean

I have 6.5 inch wrist and have the Karlsruhe Pro 40mm. It's wears well and doesn't look oversized. 
Having the chance to wear the 40mm I would find the 37mm too small for my wrist.


----------



## watchobserver

Laco Pforzheim said:


> we would recommend you to go for the 40 mm


Also, Flieger watches are supposed to be BIG.


----------



## DBGO

SCD said:


> Laco Pro Flieger just arrived. Went for 40mm, sandblasted, sterile, elabore undecorated auto. It’s a beaut! Love the proportions of the dial.
> View attachment 16358938


What is your wrist size please? I am looking to get this exact watch, but in 43mm, my wrist size being 7.5"


----------



## SCD

7.5, maybe a bit more during the holidays. 😂


----------



## P007

I am just wondering if there are any models from @Laco Pforzheim that use the SW400 movement, which is a larger version of the SW200 that brings the date window all the way out on watch dials over 40mm. It would be very interesting to hear if this is considered for any future larger models with the date window, or especially with pro models....but I understand that it may not be economically feasible to purchase small numbers of movements for those who chose the larger models and date windows.


----------



## P007

DBGO said:


> What is your wrist size please? I am looking to get this exact watch, but in 43mm, my wrist size being 7.5"


I am also looking at the 43mm, and I have 7.1* wrists (18cm), but quite flat rather than thicc.


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## BundyBear

P007 said:


> I am just wondering if there are any models from @Laco Pforzheim that use the SW400 movement, which is a larger version of the SW200 that brings the date window all the way out on watch dials over 40mm. It would be very interesting to hear if this is considered for any future larger models with the date window, or especially with pro models....but I understand that it may not be economically feasible to purchase small numbers of movements for those who chose the larger models and date windows.


No, Laco does not use the SW400. For this, you can find this information on their website. It’s listed under the FAQ page on the movements nomenclature.


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## P007

BundyBear said:


> No, Laco does not use the SW400. For this, you can find this information on their website. It’s listed under the FAQ page on the movements nomenclature.


Right. Guess I was curious to see if there had been consideration of using the larger sw400 for the 43mm pro models that have a date window, maybe the 40mm as well. 

The SW400 is basically the same as the SW200 but about 5mm wider and with bigger text on the date wheel, so it would be super nice. Having said that, IWC failed to use the movement even when they can charge a lot extra, so I understand it is probably hard to justify extra costs for what will be so few models.

I think the Oris Propilot series uses the SW400, though they list a modified SW200 on there site. Again, a decent jump in price from the Laco, but much better value then IWC.


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## watchobserver

DBGO said:


> What is your wrist size please? I am looking to get this exact watch, but in 43mm, my wrist size being 7.5"





P007 said:


> I am also looking at the 43mm, and I have 7.1* wrists (18cm), but quite flat rather than thicc.


My wrist size is 7" (17.8cm) and I have a Karlsruhe Pro 43mm, same case. It is the largest watch I have (both diameter and lug to lug distance) and it fits well. The curved lugs and low profile help a lot.
I have just snapped this pic for you, from about 50cm distance (2x iPhone lens). I am not actually wearing it today, hope you don't mind that time/date are not set


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## P007

watchobserver said:


> My wrist size is 7" (17.8cm) and I have a Karlsruhe Pro 43mm, same case. It is the largest watch I have (both diameter and lug to lug distance) and it fits well. The curved lugs and low profile help a lot.
> I have just snapped this pic for you, from about 50cm distance (2x iPhone lens). I am not actually wearing it today, hope you don't mind that time/date are not set
> 
> 
> View attachment 16988403


Nice watch, and thanks for the picture! I agree that the 11mm thickness and curved lugs make it nice to wear. I found that trying the thicker, and slightly larger lug-to-lug IWC Spitfire 43 left me wanting for a lighter and easier to wear watch. And one that will not bankrupt me 😂 

I just ordered the A dial 43mm, and can't wait to get it on my wrist


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## dlmypr

Does anyone know if I can replace the strap? Are there official laco ones or does anyone know where I can get good quality ones?


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## mrk

Bracelet or strap? The pro doesn't come with a bracelet.


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## dlmypr

mrk said:


> Bracelet or strap? The pro doesn't come with a bracelet.


Sorry, I meant strap, wanted to know if there are official Laco ones or does anyone know where I can get good quality ones?


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## BundyBear

dlmypr said:


> Sorry, I meant strap, wanted to know if there are official Laco ones or does anyone know where I can get good quality ones?


You can buy it from the Laco website.









Laco Watch Strap Advisor | Find your matching watch strap


Laco's watch strap advisor will easily find the right watch strap for your Laco watch. Step by step to the matching strap.




www.laco.de


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## mrk

I've got rubber/cordura hybrids on my watches. Hirsch, Barton Bands are my brands.


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## OTNC

I'm finding it hard to find photos of the 43mm caseback, would love to see any pics if you guys have one of these in person.

All the best.


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## watchobserver

OTNC said:


> I'm finding it hard to find photos of the 43mm caseback, would love to see any pics if you guys have one of these in person.
> 
> All the best.


Not much to see, really..


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## StufflerMike

Lume shot Karlsruhe Pro


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## JamesKL

My Stuttgart Pro I picked up at the NYC Windup Watch Fair. I love it so much!


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mocapitane

Would like to know if this will be available with the blue sunburst dial. I would be most keen to add to my collection. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## P007

Got my new Stuttgart 43 with the black date, top grade, this past week. Love the sandblasted slim case and the vintage/waxed strap with rivets. Good job to the team at @Laco Pforzheim.


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## watchobserver

Love how the light plays with those hands.


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## Elrodcod

mrk said:


> Bracelet or strap? The pro doesn't come with a bracelet.


A bracelet is available as an extra cost option.


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## Capt.Keith

I like this new Laco. You can customize it to basically look like a Laco original (without the logo and made in Germany) but you get 20 atm of wr. That watch would look right on a mesh strap too. I live in South Fl. I'm in the water often. I Like my wr. Nice go Laco!!


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## mrk

Still going strong...


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## skuripanda

Elrodcod said:


> A bracelet is available as an extra cost option.


Important to note: the bracelet for Pro is only with the brushed steel finish (to match the brushed steel version of the Flieger Pro).

Laco unfortunately does not offer a dark sandblasted steel bracelet that would match the sandblasted Pro.
As they replied to me when I asked them about it, they made some trials but the result of sandblasting the bracelet isn't on par with the case finishing, which is why they don't offer it.


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## mrk

Got a macro lens now, so used the usual test subject


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## skuripanda

mrk said:


> Got a macro lens now,


Get closer in there, don't be shy.


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## mrk

It's a 1:1 magnification 100mm ma ro lens, the above are at 1:1 without cropping in^ Drag the images to your desktop and open them locally, they are 2000px wide, the forum doesn't offer dynamic zoom. to full res.

Here are native res samples to view in even further


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## skuripanda

Which lens?
Because the Canon 100mm macro lens I use can take these shots (without cropping, just resized to a more forum-friendly resolution):


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## mrk

Canon 100mm 2.8 L IS - Same lens?

I don't go that far in for my shots because aesthetically it does nothing for me, I need the case or something to frame the subject with to be visually appealing. It will make sense if my above 2 pics are viewed full screen as there's lots of detail.


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## DeckRunner

skuripanda said:


> Which lens?
> Because the Canon 100mm macro lens I use can take these shots (without cropping, just resized to a more forum-friendly resolution):
> View attachment 17146170
> 
> View attachment 17146169


What is that engraved on the rotor?


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## skuripanda

mrk said:


> Canon 100mm 2.8 L IS - Same lens?
> 
> I don't go that far in for my shots because aesthetically it does nothing for me, I need the case or something to frame the subject with to be visually appealing. It will make sense if my above 2 pics are viewed full screen as there's lots of detail.


Yeah, the same lens. It's quite excellent for the money, amazing for macro shots, but also great for portraits.

Understood... showcasing the entire watch, your shots are perfect.
I like getting closer on some shots to really visualise the fine details which the naked eye cannot see. I figure if a macro lens is capable of sharp photos so up close and personal, I'll push it to its limits 



DeckRunner said:


> What is that engraved on the rotor?


It's a phrase in Tolkien's elven language Quenya, written in Tolkien's elven letters Tengwar, custom engraved by Laco (I prepared the vector design and they kindly made it for me).


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## DeckRunner

skuripanda said:


> It's a phrase in Tolkien's elven language Quenya, written in Tolkien's elven letters Tengwar, custom engraved by Laco (I prepared the vector design and they kindly made it for me).


Oh wow. First, awesome to have that engraved on your watch. Second, had no idea Laco would do something like that, which is really cool.


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## skuripanda

DeckRunner said:


> Oh wow. First, awesome to have that engraved on your watch. Second, had no idea Laco would do something like that, which is really cool.


Laco does offer free engraving, but it's usually meant to be letters and/or numbers. They were VERY kind and made it custom from a vector design for me, no idea if that is standard service or nepotism  But it's always worth to ask if you have an idea or a design, the worst thing they can say is "unfortunately not possible". And it's a good approach to have the design ready as a vector file (I sent it over in DXF format), not a bitmap image.

I wanted that particular engraving as it was a watch for my wife for our anniversary and we have the same thing engraved on our wedding rings.


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## mrk

skuripanda said:


> Yeah, the same lens. It's quite excellent for the money, amazing for macro shots, but also great for portraits.
> 
> Understood... showcasing the entire watch, your shots are perfect.
> I like getting closer on some shots to really visualise the fine details which the naked eye cannot see. I figure if a macro lens is capable of sharp photos so up close and personal, I'll push it to its limits
> 
> 
> It's a phrase in Tolkien's elven language Quenya, written in Tolkien's elven letters Tengwar, custom engraved by Laco (I prepared the vector design and they kindly made it for me).


This is fair and completely preferential on stuff like this yep!


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