# Quality issues with Grand Seiko bracelet



## kennyljv (Jul 27, 2017)

Hi,

Me being a Seiko fan for a few years, I recently jumped the gun and purchased my first Grand Seiko SBGX091. I made the purchase online and being very sure it's from a reputable AD I received the watch. Everything was in pristine new condition which I bought brand new and when I was about to resize the bracelet I noticed one of the end links having a noticeable gap. I could have ignored this link but having paid a substantial amount(at least for me) for this watch and it's still under a year warranty, I decided to send the whole bracelet back to the AD who will send it to be rectified by Grand Seiko directly. Now my question is, has Grand Seiko's quality deteriorated this badly and for their customer service to treat their customers as fools? I saw someone else who had issues with Grand Seiko as well posting in this forum with topic title "My less than pleasant experience with Grand Seiko Japan Customer Service Dept". I couldn't post the link due to insufficient post count. So Grand Seiko took in the bracelet to fix it but their feedback was:-

_Seiko staff mentioned that you should never attempt to remove the link by your own. This result that the special glue was unbound from the pin and the link was losing its shape or bend. Seiko recommends for next time you should bring it to only Grand Seiko professional technician instead. _

Now I'm dumbfounded by the statement. As you can see from the pic, the link had a gap on the second last link and the whole bracelet was new untouched. When I had a look at the back of the bracelet, it's all solid stainless steel which doesn't seem to be bent by force in any way as there's no scratches. It just seemed like it was wrongly constructed. Does Seiko's comment actually make sense?


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## PANICiii (Dec 7, 2015)

Their half-links are just poor quality, from your post above, it looks like they can't admit it. I hate to see stories like this. But I appreciate people are spreading the info.
I found the halflinks to be also of less good quality then the rest of the bracelet. The spacing, the width, they are not perfect. Luckily, I don't have to use halflinks on any of my GS's. 

On my SBGE001, if I remove all extra links on the shorter side of the bracelet, I get a fitment issue where the bracelet doesn't come flush with the clasp-half-link. A bit like yours but the opposite (bracelet being slightly large than the little halflink at the clasp).

It looks like you could get that halflink replaced and everything should be fine though. I heard in the past that GS in New Jersey I think can send you half links for free.


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

Nothing to add on my end, but just wanted to say thank you OP for the post; As it's been reported, GS pays attention to forums so it's important we let them know when issues like this arise, as I'd love for them to up their QC and CS as well!


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## Ducati_Fiend (Dec 10, 2012)

Odd, I have a newer GS and an older GS and they are both immaculate. Not sure what to say about this. My new GS has a titanium bracelet and stainless with the older. No issues, and you can change the links yourself, or at least I did without any problems. The Newer Snowflake was a perfect fit right out of the box so obviously nothing required there..


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## Jezza (Aug 4, 2010)

Grand Seiko bracelets seem to have a bit more lateral movement than comparable watches. My SBGR301 has a three-link bracelet, and the fit is perfect. I wasn't clear from your post, however: Did they replace the link or pin? Or, did they decline to provide a remedy? What did the AD do?


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## snakeeyes (Jan 23, 2014)

wow.

google rolex bracelet problems. every brand has an issue once in awhile. what makes you think Grand Seikos quality is 'deteriorating'?


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## kennyljv (Jul 27, 2017)

Hi, thanks for the response. I think for me having owned so many cheaper Seikos including SARB033 and SKX173 where I couldn't really find any fault for the price, it's just excellent. I decided to get the Grand Seiko after reading so much about them from forums and videos raving about how good the workmanship and zaratsu polishing, I was a bit surprised with the quality of my piece. I don't want to go into the watch itself which I would put as good but will focus on the bracelet instead. Apart from the gap which you can clearly see on the halflink, there's also a consistent gap between removable full links and fixed ones making it inconsistent. So here are my points:-

1) I say "deteriorating" because I see many complains about GS in this forum in recent years and months.
2) When contacting Grand Seiko about the issue, they say that every watch is checked thoroughly. For mine, it's clear that it was not.
3) After "fixing" it, they subtly put the blame to the customer that it was mishandled when I did not remove the link yet. Can glue actually cause a hard as rock stainless steel link to bend by itself as claimed? To me the link was just not made with precision. This was the main reason I posted this to find if there's really an issue like this or it's their refusal to admit it was a mistake on their side.

For me, I could have ignored this little half link issue and not used it but having save up with my really long hard earned cash to enjoy the finer craftsmanship of horology, I really needed to say something about it so that Grand Seiko take notice. Of course, I understand not every watch is perfect and some will have some issues but if GS admitted that it was a mistake and replaced it I would not have said anything further. Anyway the issue is now fixed as Grand Seiko said they have fixed/adjusted the link and also reglued the pin without any additional cost as it's under warranty and it's now being sent back to the AD in Japan who will then ship it back to me.


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

Never seen this issue on my affordable watches.

Sent from my LG-H630 using Tapatalk


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

Their statement does make sense if they were under the impression that you tried to remove screws and that what is pictured was the result. If you didn't touch it, then that's their mistake/misunderstanding but probably nothing more. And language/translation issues can accentuate things in unintended ways. Bottom line is, is it duly being fixed/replaced ender warranty?


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## kennyljv (Jul 27, 2017)

bluedialer said:


> Their statement does make sense if they were under the impression that you tried to remove screws and that what is pictured was the result. If you didn't touch it, then that's their mistake/misunderstanding but probably nothing more. And language/translation issues can accentuate things in unintended ways. Bottom line is, is it duly being fixed/replaced ender warranty?


Really? So if what they said made sense, that means that Grand Seiko stainless steel links are bonded by glue which will wear off overtime and most of it will bend in a few decades. Wow.

This was communicated by the local AD who can communicate well in both English and Japanese. So there's no translation lost there and yes it's being fixed under warranty. It looks like I'm whining but if nothing is said and lower quality QC becomes acceptable and the norm for this price range, they will only lose credibility as a brand which I love.


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

No, like many bracelets at this price point that use screws, some binding compound like loctite is used to help keep the screws in place. They aren't saying the link itself is glued together, I don't think so. Again, there are easily details and nuance lost in translation. The statement you quoted definitely reads like a Japanese translation, far from seamless English.

They may not truly know how this problem occurred, and are theorizing that difficulty in removal or replacement if the screws _could_ cause this. If not initially, then in the future the problem could be encountered again if an untrained person forces it. They're trying to state this in the interest of preventing future problem, not necessarily in the interest of not taking responsibility or blaming you for causing the problem. Without need for a translation, this may have been communicated more effectively and seemingly more politely.

Perhaps it could've been nicer to just see an apology for a rare hiccup in manufacture, and nothing else. But also they'd like to help ensure you don't encounter this problem again, should you ever try to work on the bracelet yourself in the future. That shouldn't be taken the wrong way, it's just that no manufacturer can speak for the skill/knowledge level of individual owners. They've honored the warranty so essentially have taken responsibility.

And btw, I'm not saying there's no issue with those half links... There very well may be if this commonly occurs. I can't speak for that. I just don't think that translated statement grape-vined by your AD deserves the backlash.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

If your bracelet came as depicted in the picture, then there simply is no excuse and GS should be ashamed for delivering such a product. Now having said that, several members allready pointed out that even amongst the most renowned Swiss brands QC mistakes can and do occur from time to time. I can perfectly understand your disappointment and feel sorry that it had to happen to you, but as is with everything in life sometimes we do end up drawing the shortest straw. Regarding your statement that these issues have been reported with more regularity as of late, I believe that popularity and greater brand awareness are to blame rather than a result of general QC deterioration as you put it. Regardless, what counts is that it's been repaired under warranty and that it's on its way back to you. The rest is just speculation on our part.


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## kennyljv (Jul 27, 2017)

bluedialer said:


> No, like many bracelets at this price point that use screws, some binding compound like loctite is used to help keep the screws in place. They aren't saying the link itself is glued together, I don't think so. Again, there are easily details and nuance lost in translation. The statement you quoted definitely reads like a Japanese translation, far from seamless English.
> 
> They may not truly know how this problem occurred, and are theorizing that difficulty in removal or replacement if the screws _could_ cause this. If not initially, then in the future the problem could be encountered again if an untrained person forces it. They're trying to state this in the interest of preventing future problem, not necessarily in the interest of not taking responsibility or blaming you for causing the problem. Without need for a translation, this may have been communicated more effectively and seemingly more politely.
> 
> ...


What I understood from the statement is that what they are trying to say is that if the pin was mishandled, that would've caused the link to lose its shape _overtim_e in which the pin was holding its shape.If you personally inspected the link, you will know that there's no force to it as it's really solid and hard and should be hard to bend with normal strength. The person inspecting it would've known and be able to tell that and would've mentioned that it was forced and by using such force to bend it, there would've been scratches and dents but there's none and they didn't mention that and use that as an excuse which would've made it way easier. So which is why I don't think there's an issue with the translation. I think they needed to find the most logical reason rather than admitting it's a manufacturing defect which would've harmed the reputation of the brand. It's the same as what Steve Jobs would say, you are holding the phone the wrong way for the antennagate issue.


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## kennyljv (Jul 27, 2017)

T1meout said:


> If your bracelet came as depicted in the picture, then there simply is no excuse and GS should be ashamed for delivering such a product. Now having said that, several members allready pointed out that even amongst the most renowned Swiss brands QC mistakes can and do occur from time to time. I can perfectly understand your disappointment and feel sorry that it had to happen to you, but as is with everything in life sometimes we do end up drawing the shortest straw. Regarding your statement that these issues have been reported with more regularity as of late, I believe that popularity and greater brand awareness are to blame rather than a result of general QC deterioration as you put it. Now it may be that the times when GS watches were totally assembled and inspected by hand are far gone, and that nowadays in an attempt to meet global demand, at least entry level GS manufacturing has become a fully automated process foregoing adequate QC inspection. We can only hope this is not the case. Regardless, what counts is that it's been repaired under warranty and that its on its way back to you. The rest is just speculation on our part.


I agree with what you said. However until now, it seems that it's touted that Grand Seiko watches are still assembled and finished byhand is still widely acknowledged but like you mentioned this may not be the case anymore. The watch that I bought is an entry level GS retailing at around USD3,000 and maybe the quality is not on par with the higher end ones? I do think the watch itself is still of high quality but generic parts like the bracelet may have been manufactured for volume rather than for quality. I compared my SARB033 and SBGX091 bracelet side by side and I can't say that the GS bracelet is a lot better than the SARB except for the clasp. The quality is almost similar at least to me. Yeap most importantly the issue is fixed and I rest my case and will no longer blow this out of proportion. Thank you to everyone who commented.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

kennyljv said:


> I agree with what you said. However until now, it seems that it's touted that Grand Seiko watches are still assembled and finished byhand is still widely acknowledged but like you mentioned this may not be the case anymore. The watch that I bought is an entry level GS retailing at around USD3,000 and maybe the quality is not on par with the higher end ones? I do think the watch itself is still of high quality but generic parts like the bracelet may have been manufactured for volume rather than for quality. I compared my SARB033 and SBGX091 bracelet side by side and I can't say that the GS bracelet is a lot better than the SARB except for the clasp. The quality is almost similar at least to me. Yeap most importantly the issue is fixed and I rest my case and will no longer blow this out of proportion. Thank you to everyone who commented.


Ever heard of the rule of diminishing return and all that? Simply put it means that quality does not improveme proportional to price increase.


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## jandrese (May 11, 2009)

Same exact thing happened to me today! I wanted to remove a 1/2 link to make a better fit and both 1/2 links ended up wonky like yours. Not good. Not excusable.


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## Weua (Jan 5, 2018)

I have a Seiko SBGX263 and removed and added the half links several times for trial and error to get the perfect fit and have had zero problems like what is listed above. I felt I should make a post on the positive side instead of always only reading about something negative only when people decide to make a post about a bad experience. Overall I think the GS bracelet is very nicely done.


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## dayandnight (May 24, 2016)

I love my Grand Seiko but I am not too fond of the bracelet. Although I had it adjusted to fit my wrist I will probably replace it with a nice rally strap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## reggie747 (Sep 12, 2013)

My understanding of your post is that you're a little piffed ?
You've highlighted an issue with something you've bought and it's getting sorted out. What more do you you want ?


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## jinfaep (Feb 5, 2017)

As a prospective GS buyer, seeing posts like these are disheartening.. Definitely makes you reconsider purchasing a GS.


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## Weua (Jan 5, 2018)

jinfaep said:


> As a prospective GS buyer, seeing posts like these are disheartening.. Definitely makes you reconsider purchasing a GS.


I wouldn't let these posts let you down if you wanted a Grand Seiko, afterall every brand will have some problems, even Rolex, I read about some that fog up under the glass (maybe due to a bad seal) or Rolex owners receiving poor servicing when sending their watch in to be repaired. (And they paid lots of money for the servicing and waited a looong time (months!) to get the watch back too!). Yet there are so many more happy Rolex owners than unhappy ones.

So buy a Grand Seiko if you wanted it and hope for the best, afterall there are much much more happy GS owners than unhappy ones. You can't let a freak occurrence stop you from getting the watch you want. I have been wearing mine for a month and I have no problems with the bracelet.

If I was the OP I would ask Grand Seiko to replace the broken half-link with a new one, that will fix everything right away.


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## reggie747 (Sep 12, 2013)

jinfaep said:


> As a prospective GS buyer, seeing posts like these are disheartening.. Definitely makes you reconsider purchasing a GS.


Until you actually handle one perhaps...


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

No brand is perfect, and every brand will have issues. I wouldn't let any of this get you down if you want a GS; check them out in person, and inspect before you buy (from a reputed AD). Everything else will work itself out.

*As a side note, it's been mentioned by the Govberg team that among the pre-owned watches they buy, GS is never one they have to send back to the manufacturer for servicing/repair. Speaks volumes for me, and don't forget we're in an online bubble at that


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## jinfaep (Feb 5, 2017)

reggie747 said:


> Until you actually handle one perhaps...


Ive handled quite a few, which is why I'm a prospective buyer!
Per my original post, it's little things like these that make you reconsider spending this much on a GS. There were no such issues when purchasing my Omega from the AD which is what you'd want to expect when spending this type of money on a watch.
But since we're making assumptions, I'll assume you haven't had the chance to purchase similarly priced Swiss to know what I'm speaking about?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Weua (Jan 5, 2018)

jinfaep said:


> Ive handled quite a few, which is why I'm a prospective buyer!
> Per my original post, it's little things like these that make you reconsider spending this much on a GS. There were no such issues when purchasing my Omega from the AD which is what you'd want to expect when spending this type of money on a watch.
> But since we're making assumptions, I'll assume you haven't had the chance to purchase similarly priced Swiss to know what I'm speaking about?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Are you just slow or being purposely difficult, if it is the latter you should find something else to do with your time. As for your Omega, it is great you got a perfect one, just like I got a perfect Grand Seiko, but that doesn't mean there are never any problems with Omega watches by other people, so the BS that you keep repeating "There were no such issues when purchasing my Omega from the AD which is what you'd want to expect when spending this type of money on a watch." is not helping your case.

As for GS pricing, their watches are worth 2x as much when being compared to swiss watches, this is not just my opinion, you can read the same opinion from many people on the internet. So why are you beating a dead horse? If you want to put down Grand Seiko, there are plenty of other forums on this site to do so, everytime you come across a thread stating "what watch should I buy", all you need to do is write: "Go Swiss, get a swiss watch". (Did you ever read a post here with a blanket statement saying to get a Japanese watch over a Swiss one?)

So what is a "similarly priced swiss" are you talking about? Because if you talking about a $3000 GS and a $1500 swiss brand I wouldn't even dare consider getting such a swiss brand, because mid-level swiss brands are just meh and only have their "swiss-made" marketing to sustain them: a bit of white nationalism + european heritage ("buy the watch your grandfather would wear, not some yellowskin asian copycat-brand, oh the horror) + subtle anti-Japanese (or asian) bias goes a long way. I would understand that if you are white and it would be so bad to pass down a yellow Japanese watch to your white children. (but why would you pass down a watch in the first place (that is some gooood marketing). (Here is food for thought: Would an Asian choose a Swiss watch over a Japanese watch to pass down their their children?)

If you are talking about a $3000 GS and a $6000 Swiss brand (that is really only worth $3000), well I don't have such a watch cause my best watch is a Grand Seiko, but I have read a lot of problems about Rolex watches and people still buy them (also, I have no grudge against people who like Rolexes) Why should Grand Seiko have to have a lower defect rate than Rolex (and also have a lower price), and settle for less when it comes to such a comparison. Are you going to beat on the Rolex dead horse as you are on GS? I thought not. Swiss made gets an easy pass, Japanese made has to work harder, and for less.


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## kezown (Jan 2, 2014)

jinfaep said:


> As a prospective GS buyer, seeing posts like these are disheartening.. Definitely makes you reconsider purchasing a GS.


All manufactures will have defects in their watches. Seiko are really good at rectifying problems like this.


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## zuiko (May 17, 2016)

Was the watch in all of its protective plastic?

The removable bracelet section normally has tape across it. Was this all intact?

Is it possible it was a returned watch? Did the screws have any obvious evidence of having been touched with a screwdriver? 

Just pointing out that the watch can end up in a number of hands after it leaves the factory. The chain leading to the consumer can be the problem also. Please don't underestimate that for the potential of problems like this.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Weua said:


> Are you just slow or being purposely difficult, if it is the latter you should find something else to do with your time. As for your Omega, it is great you got a perfect one, just like I got a perfect Grand Seiko, but that doesn't mean there are never any problems with Omega watches by other people, so the BS that you keep repeating "There were no such issues when purchasing my Omega from the AD which is what you'd want to expect when spending this type of money on a watch." is not helping your case.
> 
> As for GS pricing, their watches are worth 2x as much when being compared to swiss watches, this is not just my opinion, you can read the same opinion from many people on the internet. So why are you beating a dead horse? If you want to put down Grand Seiko, there are plenty of other forums on this site to do so, everytime you come across a thread stating "what watch should I buy", all you need to do is write: "Go Swiss, get a swiss watch". (Did you ever read a post here with a blanket statement saying to get a Japanese watch over a Swiss one?)
> 
> ...


Weua, since you are new to WUS and our forum, let me suggest trying to keep a respectful tone, this and several of your other posts are strident. 
WUS is not Twitter or Facebook. 
On the GS forum we all try to help, challenge, and educate each other, without being insulting. 
If you don't agree with me, fine, I realize you are entitled to your view as much as I am.


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## CFK-OB (Oct 15, 2007)

jinfaep said:


> Ive handled quite a few, which is why I'm a prospective buyer!
> Per my original post, it's little things like these that make you reconsider spending this much on a GS. There were no such issues when purchasing my Omega from the AD which is what you'd want to expect when spending this type of money on a watch.
> But since we're making assumptions, I'll assume you haven't had the chance to purchase similarly priced Swiss to know what I'm speaking about?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Omega are fine watches, no doubt, but so are Grand Seiko and in my opinion GS provide much better quality and value in their finishing. I completely understand people not liking their aesthetics, but you'll find very few people arguing their quality.

As for Swiss watches in general, I certainly appreciate them, and have IWC, Omega and Breitling in my collection, but there's a reason that only four of the last eighteen watches I have bought have been Swiss. There's also a reason that two of the last four have been Grand Seiko and it's very likely that my next few purchases will be GS.


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## jinfaep (Feb 5, 2017)

Weua said:


> Are you just slow or being purposely difficult, if it is the latter you should find something else to do with your time. As for your Omega, it is great you got a perfect one, just like I got a perfect Grand Seiko, but that doesn't mean there are never any problems with Omega watches by other people, so the BS that you keep repeating "There were no such issues when purchasing my Omega from the AD which is what you'd want to expect when spending this type of money on a watch." is not helping your case.
> 
> As for GS pricing, their watches are worth 2x as much when being compared to swiss watches, this is not just my opinion, you can read the same opinion from many people on the internet. So why are you beating a dead horse? If you want to put down Grand Seiko, there are plenty of other forums on this site to do so, everytime you come across a thread stating "what watch should I buy", all you need to do is write: "Go Swiss, get a swiss watch". (Did you ever read a post here with a blanket statement saying to get a Japanese watch over a Swiss one?)
> 
> ...


Great to see GS fans out there vehemently defending the brand!

I wouldn't be a prospective GS buyer (or even on the GS forum for that matter) if I didn't love Spring Drive, the level of finishing on the watch heads, or the overall aesthetic of the brand.
*In my experience* however, perceived bracelet quality does seem to be the one area where GS lags behind compared to similarly priced Swiss. Like I said before, it's small things like this that could be the tipping point between someone buying a GS, or an alternative.

That being said however, my next (hopefully final) acquisition will be a GS Spring Drive


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## jandrese (May 11, 2009)

Here are pics of what happened to my bracelet. All I did was remove the links like I've done countless times before to many watch bracelets. The watch and bracelet were in almost new condition and the bracelet was always worn loose, that is, there no possibility of it being previously stressed by me. Removing the links magically caused them (the 1/2 links) to bend downwards and outwards. After sending an email to my AD and not receiving a response and after ordering a nice handmade strap and separately a GS buckle, I decided to try and fix it myself. BTW, this particular GS of mine is a SBGV205.

Anyway, I have a vice designed for delicate items. Was not hard to bend back using the vice. Just had to be careful with alignment and pressure. Had to apply pressure side to side on the "arms" and lengthwise to straighten and flatten. Seems like back to 95% perfect. Bad design by GS. Anyone with a screwdriver should be able to change the bracelet at any time without fear of causing harm to the bracelet.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

jandrese said:


> Here are pics of what happened to my bracelet. All I did was remove the links like I've done countless times before to many watch bracelets. The watch and bracelet were in almost new condition and the bracelet was always worn loose, that is, there no possibility of it being previously stressed by me. Removing the links magically caused them (the 1/2 links) to bend downwards and outwards. After sending an email to my AD and not receiving a response and after ordering a nice handmade strap and separately a GS buckle, I decided to try and fix it myself. BTW, this particular GS of mine is a SBGV205.
> 
> Anyway, I have a vice designed for delicate items. Was not hard to bend back using the vice. Just had to be careful with alignment and pressure. Had to apply pressure side to side on the "arms" and lengthwise to straighten and flatten. Seems like back to 95% perfect. Bad design by GS. Anyone with a screwdriver should be able to change the bracelet at any time without fear of causing harm to the bracelet.
> 
> ...


Wow! Could the half-links have been deformed when they were installed (but it sounds like you handled that) and when you removed the screws they returned to their shape?

Did you buy the watch from the AD? If yes, then shame on the AD for not responding to you.

You might want to contact Grand Seiko USA, they will provide additional links (I got two for my 5-piece bracelet) and in this situation might send you replacements.

Sorry if this experience left a bad taste in your mouth about GS.


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## jandrese (May 11, 2009)

I have not figured out why the links deformed. Obviously, they were stressed somehow and relaxed to shape but it boggles my mind. The screws, or at least, the screws on one side had a generous helping of loctite or whatever. Perhaps the stress of turning those did something.

I'm still cool with GS. There are I think 5 GS watches in my house. I'd consider another. Like any other brand they are not perfect in every detail and I'm OK with that.

Thanks for the info about contacting GS. I will do that for sure.



whineboy said:


> Wow! Could the half-links have been deformed when they were installed (but it sounds like you handled that) and when you removed the screws they returned to their shape?
> 
> Did you buy the watch from the AD? If yes, then shame on the AD for not responding to you.
> 
> ...


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## At4rax (Dec 7, 2017)

Sad to hear but thanks for sharing! Always looking for info like this when I consider a serious buy


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## zuiko (May 17, 2016)

The two screw and bar system can be a bit tricky in that only a short part of the bar goes into the end piece. If it is screwed in without being properly engaged in its distal part it can bend the end into which it is being improperly pushed perhaps. 

Looks like what might have happened here.


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## jandrese (May 11, 2009)

I grant that this is possible, in which case is pretty much my own fault. I will say, however, that no undue force seemed necessary to screw the screws back in. But, things on this scale are hard to gauge. Anyway, it still points to a less than optimal design. The 1/2 links are not solid, one piece construction. The "arms" are joined across the link by a thin piece of metal and that seems glued or pressed onto the center section. The thin metal is what bent here. That, and the pin system is lame. Should be robust and easy to use. Others have figured it out.



zuiko said:


> The two screw and bar system can be a bit tricky in that only a short part of the bar goes into the end piece. If it is screwed in without being properly engaged in its distal part it can bend the end into which it is being improperly pushed perhaps.
> 
> Looks like what might have happened here.


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## LodeRunner (Feb 17, 2013)

This obviously wasn’t a brand new watch, was it?

It’s possible that the bracelet was stressed or stretched by a previous owner when you bought it. Your earlier post said you had “a year left” on warranty, which indicates it was pre-owned albeit in good condition.

I’ve bought Omega Seamaster watches with similar bracelet problems. In my case, I found out that the previous owner was using a watch winder with a mounting cup that was a little too big for the bracelet. The owner would force the bracelet closed around the mounting cup (which was hard plastic), making a super tight fit, and over weeks and months, it stretched out the bracelet in bizarre ways towards the clasp. A similar thing can happen if someone tries to close the clasp around the watch holder inset in the watch box; if it’s too tight, it will stretch the bracelet over weeks, months, or how ever long it’s in that position. 

Bottom line, it’s not right to automatically conclude that a bracelet problem is due to faulty GS quality if you didn’t take delivery of the watch brand new. You literally have no idea what might have happened to that bracelet before you took delivery.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## jandrese (May 11, 2009)

Are you referring to the OP? Mine is less than a year old and was new to me. I wore it in something like a 20 watch rotation and always loose. Absolutely zero chance of damage by me or anyone else.

Also the most recent posts by me and Zuiko place the cause most likely on user error. If the bar is not perfectly set in place, which cannot be seen and is a bit tricky (I experimented with this), replacing the screws could produce enough torque to deform the links. That is because the 1/2 link has a weak design whereby the "arms" are joined across the center section by a thin strip of metal. Not a robust design. They must anticipate dealers and end users, i.e. non-GS technicians, altering bracelet length.

Most likely the OP jumped the gun placing all the blame on GS. I followed suit after I freaked about really mysteriously ending up with bent 1/2 links and turning to WUS. The GS bracelet is fine if you take unusual care in reassembling the links. Their design is weak and if you've never done it before or don't wear your reading glasses it seems super easy to bend the links. On the plus side they can be bent back as I've shown. GS could eliminate this potential issue with a simple design change that would afterall improve their bracelets. It's part of going global, stuff like this will creep up. Still love me my GS but even they have room for improvement. And so do I.



Mark.W said:


> This obviously wasn't a brand new watch, was it?
> 
> It's possible that the bracelet was stressed or stretched by a previous owner when you bought it. Your earlier post said you had "a year left" on warranty, which indicates it was pre-owned albeit in good condition.
> 
> ...


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## Y08140 (Aug 16, 2016)

I’ve had this happen with my sbgx065. The link splayed apart for no real reason at all, worse than what was pictured. I mean it’s a small quibble and I don’t use them halflinks at all, but it’s still annoying. It seems they solder on thin pieces of metal( the part containing the pins and screws) onto the main solid link.
As mentioned, ill still buy gs, I didn’t even get a replacement link or contact seiko regarding the halflinks I’ll never use, but it’s fair game to point out such stuffs in hopes they refine their already refined game. Why leave out the bracelet when their manufacture game is strong?

Not a knock on gs, just made my 4th purchase, the peacock! Btw my peacock half links, while didn’t splay apart, had one end with a noticeable gap while the other was flushed. Not gonna do anything about it, though I know how it will piss some people off. I should be pissed considering twice bitten, but the pretty face says everything’s gonna be ok.


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## reggie747 (Sep 12, 2013)

jinfaep said:


> I'll assume you haven't had the chance to purchase similarly priced Swiss to know what I'm speaking about?


I never assume.... but seeing as you are, I do feel I'm suitably qualified to answer your question....





































And of course with non-Swiss also...


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## jinfaep (Feb 5, 2017)

reggie747 said:


> I never assume.... but seeing as you are, I do feel I'm suitably qualified to answer your question....
> 
> View attachment 12809499
> 
> ...


Nice collection buddy. Did you feel that GS' perceived bracelet quality is not on the same level as Omega or Rolex for example?

Like I said before, IMO having handled numerous GS and similarly priced brands, this is one area where GS lags behind

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## Y08140 (Aug 16, 2016)

I know you didn’t direct the question to me, but I used to think they were quite close, not anymore though.

This coming from somemore who owns the subc, explorer 39mm, and even Tudor black Bay. Even the black Bay is solid throughout the links. like how Rolex used to have tinfoil clasps just awhile ago, gs will up their game if we give them more .... haha


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## Y08140 (Aug 16, 2016)

Design and finishing of bracelet/clasp of the gs is way better though. The brushing, polishing, and the way the edges of the bracelet are rounded for maximum comfort and aesthetics. Clasp is also thin.

Rolex has better manufacturing, but the clasp feels too thick, too long, and the edges of links are more simple. Tudor is just chunky all around, but unbreakable!


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## jinfaep (Feb 5, 2017)

Y08140 said:


> I know you didn't direct the question to me, but I used to think they were quite close, not anymore though.
> 
> This coming from somemore who owns the subc, explorer 39mm, and even Tudor black Bay. Even the black Bay is solid throughout the links. like how Rolex used to have tinfoil clasps just awhile ago, gs will up their game if we give them more .... haha


No worries mate, open forum 

It was more so my tongue in cheek assumption that wasn't directed to reggie747

I get what you mean with GS bracelets. While their finishing is of high quality, there's something about the feel of GS bracelets/clasps that felt subpar (just!) compared to Omega or Rolex. Again, my opinion only 

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## tunadubby (Sep 11, 2014)

My SBGJ225 fits very comfortably on the wrist. Better than my 16800, and as well as my 214270. I think it has to somewhat do with one's wrist shape to prefer a bracelet over another. 

That said.....what a pain to size the GS Bracelet! And I certainly wish there was a way to micro adjust the length of the bracelet without using tools, similar to modern rolex bracelets.


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## Raydius (Jul 26, 2016)

Just jumping in here, I have no extensive experience with the presumably better 5-link GS bracelet (though have tried on many at AD's), but I have the 3-link "oyster style" from my SBGA083. It's ok, and I think probably suitable for a ~$3k watch. Unlike many, I don't think GS punches as far above their weight class as some who claim they are worth 2x etc. As stated above, sizing using the half link (and no micro adjustment) can be hit or miss.

Having had a Rolex 114060 (roughly double $$ depending on what you spend for either), that bracelet/clasp is the best in the business imho. It is futile to compare just about any other sport bracelet to the current oyster/Glidelock system, which can magically fit wrists both tiny and gigantic. That is why this bracelet/clasp fetches $2k in the used market.

Have since moved onto a 116710 (GMT Master) which does not have a Glidelock clasp, but still has "Easylink" adjustment. Build quality and comfort is still above my GS bracelet although fitment is only a little better without Glidelock.

To avoid this comparison altogether, I mostly enjoy my GS on leather. Then I can focus on the things that my GS excels at instead of the shortcomings. Your mileage may vary.










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## blowlamp (Jan 15, 2018)

Y08140 said:


> Design and finishing of bracelet/clasp of the gs is way better though. The brushing, polishing, and the way the edges of the bracelet are rounded for maximum comfort and aesthetics. Clasp is also thin.
> 
> Rolex has better manufacturing, but the clasp feels too thick, too long, and the edges of links are more simple. Tudor is just chunky all around, but unbreakable!


Greetings, first post here.

I've got the SBGV005 with a five-piece bracelet and the SBGV023 with a three-piece bracelet. In comparison to my 2017 manufactured Explorer, I must say that I agree with much of Y08140s view when comparing bracelets between these two manufacturers.

To add to these observations, the satin finish of the Seikos is finer and appears to be hand-applied, whereas the Rolex is coarser grained and slightly more consistant which gives the impression of being machine-applied. The Seiko links also articulate slightly within themselves and interestingly to me, the pivot points are actually different between the three & five-piece versions. This makes the bracelet more flexible than the Rolex offering which has its three-piece links solidly joined into one inflexible unit and no doubt contributes to the marginally looser feel of the Seiko.

I prefer the Seiko clasp over the Rolex. The Seiko is compact, secure, easy to put on and beautifully made no matter which side of it you look at. In comparison the Rolex is quite bulky, but very secure with its safety lock feature. However, I find the watch awkward to put on & remove by virtue of needing to use a fingernail to raise the safety clasp, which then semi blocks access to the release lever that opens the bracelet. I also don't like the way the safety clasp gets pushed back against the satin finished surface whilst using the release lever. Finally, the usually unseen mechanical part of the clasp isn't finished to the standard that can be observed on the Seiko.

Martin.


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## Y08140 (Aug 16, 2016)

Yea the gs clasp, imo is fantastic. Having no additional features aside, it’s slim, compact, discreet, rock solid still, and excellently finished. 10/10 for what I need. I think the links are what most people have an issue with, haha. Good note on flexibility, it’s more comfortable than Rolex, overall. If only they used total solid parts! Matter of time, matter of time.


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## CFK-OB (Oct 15, 2007)

I only have an Omega that has a five link bracelet to compare with my GS and while I admit that the Omega clasp design is superior to my GS, for the rest of the bracelet there's no comparison. My Omega never looked this good. The sharpness of the lines on the GS are amazing and the Omega just doesn't come close. The way the overall design of the bracelet matches the lugs of the watch case is also impressive.

The three link bracelet on my father's quartz GS is also very impressive and in that case the clasp is excellent. I haven't spent enough time with Rolex bracelets to make an informed comparison, but I'm generally impressed with the quality of the GS bracelets.









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## Indyboot (Jan 1, 2018)

So do the GS clasps not have any micro adjustment capability? It’s half link only?


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Indyboot said:


> So do the GS clasps not have any micro adjustment capability? It's half link only?


Correct - for the non-divers. Divers do have micro-adjust: https://www.grand-seiko.com/professionaldivers/


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