# Please convince me to buy a Grand Seiko



## Mirabello1 (Sep 1, 2011)

Lately I've become very interested in Grand Seiko watches. In the past I've been heavily into Brands like Omega Panerai and even a little bit of Rolex. Grand Seiko is really starting to interest me with high beat movements and there Spring Drive.
But Omega for the same money or less, depending on the discount,offer completely anti-magnetic movements that are shockproof and are now certified to be +2 -2 sec. Per day and have better water resistance in most cases..and American service centers all over the place. Some expert opinions from the people on this forum would be appreciated. Thanks

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## matthew P (Aug 1, 2013)

Visiting a GS retailer would be the best advice I can give you ( assuming your interest so far has been limited to reading/ pictures ?)
The polishing/ finishing of GS is what they are known for and the way they play with light is very hard to capture in a one dimensional image.

I personally was more than happy enough to " settle " for only 200 meters of water resistance and a longer potential service because I preferred the look and wrist presence of the GS diver..... The 72 hour power reserve and +2 second per week accuracy were a bonus.

Well worth a look in my opinion and certainly hold their own against the brands you mentioned. 









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## JoeOBrien (Aug 2, 2013)

If you have to be convinced, then maybe they aren't for you. If you like Omega then buy Omega. You don't have to like GS because people on the internet say they're good. 

But if accuracy and magnetism are the main things holding you back, then certainly go for a Spring Drive. Unparalleled accuracy and no hairspring to magnetize. And, as mentioned above, the build quality and finishing is really where they show their quality vs. most other brands, Omega included.

It's very to hard to argue that GS mechanicals can hold up to Omega, for the reasons you mentioned, plus the fact that Omega claims a 10-year service interval while Seiko is so unwilling to show confidence in their product that they recommend service every 2-3 years.


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## Mirabello1 (Sep 1, 2011)

JoeOBrien said:


> If you have to be convinced, then maybe they aren't for you. If you like Omega then buy Omega. You don't have to like GS because people on the internet say they're good.
> 
> But if accuracy and magnetism are the main things holding you back, then certainly go for a Spring Drive. Unparalleled accuracy and no hairspring to magnetize. And, as mentioned above, the build quality and finishing is really where they show their quality vs. most other brands, Omega included.
> 
> It's very to hard to argue that GS mechanicals can hold up to Omega, for the reasons you mentioned, plus the fact that Omega claims a 10-year service interval while Seiko is so unwilling to show confidence in their product that they recommend service every 2-3 years.


Thanks for the input, I don't like GS because anybody on the Internet says I have to, I am just very intrigued because I see the quality and love the story behind GS and the workmanship that goes into them..I just wanted opinions from the people that own them, vs other brands they own or have owned.

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## Crabtree (Oct 28, 2014)

I would just echo the comment to go visit a retailer and see some of the GS line in person.....photos really don't do them justice. I've owned what I consider to be some very nice watches from the other brands that you mention--and very satisfying experiences. But gotta say, my experience with my lone (and modest as the line goes) GS has been equally if not more satisfying. Great stuff.


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## Laso1 (Oct 10, 2012)

Seeing is believing. The Hi-Beat seconds hand sweep is incredibly smooth. The Spring Drive sweep is mesmerizing. Every thing is in house including the lubricants and they grow and hand select their own Quartz crystals. The dial detail and finish are rarely captured in photographs. Seeing is believing.


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## catflap (Feb 7, 2011)

I have 2 x GS, Omega and Rolex in my small collection. The GS is in my opinion the best finished and most special feeling of these. Yet I wear my Omega the most and I'd never sell the Rolex. However it's another GS that I want to buy next!!! 

Not it sure quite what that tells you. Omegas are really nice but if you want something special, that flys under the radar and you will very rarely (if ever) see in the wild then try a GS. Think you will have to try one though to know if it's really for you.


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## G07 (Nov 20, 2008)

GS are fantastic watches. Not for everyone, but once you see them - you'll know your answer!


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## James Haury (Apr 10, 2008)

No I won't .What i will do is advise you to see one in person.If they are are nice as people say, I won't have to argue you into it.


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## jeffreyt (Mar 31, 2015)

My story... I've previously owned Rolex, Omega, B&M, GO, and others. Now I own seven Grand Seiko's, and everything else is gone. Just my untrained opinion is that my Grand Seiko's have clean and easy to read dials with great depth, impeccable finishing work, and incredible accuracy. Heck, +/- 10 seconds a year on my GS quartz divers! What can really beat that? 

Honestly, the GO Senator may have had slightly better finishing work and a better quality leather strap, but the GO also had much less power reserve and wasn't nearly as accurate as any of my Grand Seiko's. The Rolex Milguass was heavy overall and felt top heavy on my wrist. It always wanted to rotate off the side when I twisted my wrist. I've never felt that this has been an issue with any of my Grand Seiko's.

As has been advised above, go try one on and see for yourself. I'm personally very happy with my decision to dump my other watches in favor of Grand Seiko.

Jeff


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

Buy it, you will love Sushi too


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## Mirabello1 (Sep 1, 2011)

G07 said:


> GS are fantastic watches. Not for everyone, but once you see them - you'll know your answer!
> 
> View attachment 10169594
> 
> ...


That Crystal is amazing to look at

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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

My situation is very similar to Jeff's. Over the years, I have owned Omega (mostly), Breitling, Rolex and Cartier. Lots of beautiful watches. But I kept flipping them, because for one reason or another I grew tired of them. I had been reading about Grand Seiko here on the watch forums, but did not want to order one online without first seeing one. Finally, I realized through a friend, that we actually have an AD here in Vancouver, from whom I had actually bought an Omega Railmaster.

Initially, I hoped to look at, appreciate, and maybe score an SBGX061, a black dial 37mm quartz model. It would be intended as a replacement for a 36mm Rolex Explorer that I sold a few years ago, and kind of missed. Turned out, the only quartz model at the AD was an SBGX059, same case but with white dial. I tried it on reluctantly and fell in love with it and bought it on the spot. So far, it was the nicest finished watch I had ever tried on, and I had been doing research on the amazing quartz movement and was mesmerized.

That was my first GS, now I have a total of four. Three quartz and one automatic. My only non-GS is a lovely Oris Diver 65.

Now, if you are insistent on having a watch with lume, then you will likely not be impressed with most Grand Seiko. Not that I am against lume, but I feel that the white material on the hands and dial adversely affects the aesthetics of most watches. I love the beautifully finished hands and markers on the Grand Seiko watches I own. They do have some models, most diver watches, though, that are lumed, and they do an excellent job of it.

You already know that the quartz models are amazing, as are all the movements. The Hi-Beat and Spring Drive models are wonderful. But so is the automatic movement. For one thing it has a power reserve of 72hours, three days, most automatic watches are much less than that. And, without going into a lot of technical detail mostly because I don't understand it, the automatic movements are adjustable in six positions. I believe that only Patek Philippe, Nomos and one other manufacturer which I forget, share that trait in the movements.

Yes, there is a lot of hype about the Omega movements, and the extensive testing they go through, and the anti-magnetic qualities. I have owned three of the 8500 series movements that make all these claims, and none has been as accurate as my automatic GS. As far as the anti-magnetic feature, as brilliant as it is, in the 20 or so years I have been buying and selling and flipping fine watches, only once has a watch I owned become magnetized. I took it to the AD, and that was fixed in less than 5 minutes. Most have a special device for de-magnetizing a watch, it normally costs nothing, and it is a perfectly usual situation. As far as the testing of movements, and the many years warranty etc., all I can say is that testing alone does not guarantee the quality of the movement. Not meaning any disrespect here, only to say that there are many other considerations. These coaxial movements are quite thick as well, and many Omega watch cases are quite thick as a result. Admittedly, some GS models are as well, though.

If you can possibly get to see a Grand Seiko in real life, that is definitely the best thing. If not, though, I doubt you will be disappointed. And craftsmanship, accuracy apart, I find that Grand Seiko watches simply have features which I had been looking for for many years, and could not seem to find in other brands.

Cheers,
Carl


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## urbino (Jun 28, 2015)

I can only echo the suggestions to go to a dealer. That's how I ended up owning one (the same model G07 posted those wonderful pics of). I went in planning/expecting to come out wearing a Nomos, and instead came out wearing a GS.

Once you see one on your wrist, you'll know if it's for you or not.


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## Tseg (Mar 29, 2014)

I'm into more sporty/casual watches, but needed something a bit more refined for more dressy occasions. I'm not into formal watches or leather straps... ultimately I settled on the SBGJ001. It has worked well for me over the past year. Besides accepting reduced functionality due to lack of lume, and every nick is that much more painful because because the GS finish/polish is so amazing, it has really worked well for me in a business environment. It remains nearly +3 SPD, but is extremely consistent in that regard.


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## riddlers (Sep 24, 2013)

In psychology, we discuss how some people try to "convince" you of something while others simply "convey" information. People who try to "convince" others are typically less than honest. People who convey information are typically more honest. Compare the fit, finish, and quality of a Grand Seiko against another brand. Compare the two, three, or four other brands. You will then leave with the Grand Seiko. You won't need to be convinced once you witness one against other brands.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

There is one other factor about my ownership of Grand Seiko, that I have never found with any other brand. I came to this realization only recently, after doing a tribute thread about my collection of four Grand Seiko models: So far, in my many years of exploring and enjoying the world of fine timepieces, I have been often swayed by, and even envious, of the acquisitions of other forum members, to the point where I often feel that I must obtain a particular model, or to be disappointed that I could not afford a certain model o|. Not until I had achieved my small Grand Seiko collection, have these feelings dissipated. It is almost a feeling that no matter how much money one has to spend on a watch, in my eyes the quality and craftsmanship cannot be improved upon. As subjective as this may sound, I am relating this only as it applies to my personal experience. My total satisfaction in being fortunate enough to own such timepieces. And a level of satisfaction that I felt would never be achieved.

Now, I am not saying that other Grand Seiko models or models of other brands do not appeal to me, nor that I will never buy another watch. Only that, at this point in time, I am totally satisfied with my collection, and certainly not in any hurry to acquire another watch. Regardless of which one of the four watches I am wearing at any given time, I never find myself wishing that I had chosen to wear a different one.

This is quite a testament from one who tends to be most indecisive and often rather selfish.

Cheers,
Carl


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## G07 (Nov 20, 2008)

Thank you. It is!



Mirabello1 said:


> That Crystal is amazing to look at
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## paszto (Dec 6, 2016)

Some Grand Seiko has a certain charm that is unique. In the end, all that matters is which watch speaks to you and gives you more pleasure.


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## zaratsu (Jul 27, 2013)

I'm the proud owner of a GS. It's one of my favorite watches, but it shares that honor with a Nomos, a Rolex and a G-Shock.

The GS is a damn fine watch, but it's just that - a watch. I think it's unlikely the GS will live up to the hype being created by some of the responses here (no watch could, IMO).

Like many have said, visit the AD. Try some on, reflect, try some on again another day. When you're at the point where you don't give a damn what any of us say or think on the matter anymore, you'll know you've reached the right decision.

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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

A luxury watch should be something with evokes an emotional response in you, it doesn't matter how accurate the movement is, and how well finished the watch is, if it doesn't make you smile when you wear it.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

> make you smile when you wear it.


That is what works for me when it comes to the watch I want. Good call.


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## AKM (May 30, 2016)

mleok said:


> A luxury watch should be something with evokes an emotional response in you, it doesn't matter how accurate the movement is, and how well finished the watch is, if it doesn't make you smile when you wear it.


+1

This is an aesthetic question as much as anything else.

Rolex and Omega have both made laudable advances in their movement design and technology and I think that Grand Seiko no longer offers a clear advantage.

I have two GSs, both GMTs, one an automatic and the other Spring Drive, neither of them do I wear for their accuracy or service network, they both make me smile and I appreciate their design and finishing.


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## sachinmodi (May 11, 2012)

I am in the same boat as OP. Great pictures but I don't know much about Seiko... how do these compare to the Fifty Fathoms that keeps coming up on Massdrop? What is so Grand about these?


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## urbino (Jun 28, 2015)

Accuracy is never a foremost concern for me when buying a watch. We all carry a palm-sized, networked computer around with us that will tell us the time with both greater accuracy and greater precision than any watch, including quartz. A wristwatch is for quick, at-a-glance time and/or date checks without dragging out my phone. Also, the smile it gives me when I see it. 

I don't want a watch that's losing or gaining 20 or 30 seconds a day, but I'm cool with most anything less than that. If my watch is within 5 minutes of correct, I'm happy as a clam (or oyster).


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## Nom de Forum (Oct 17, 2012)

urbino said:


> Accuracy is never a foremost concern for me when buying a watch. We all carry a palm-sized, networked computer around with us that will tell us the time with both greater accuracy and greater precision than any watch, including quartz. A wristwatch is for quick, at-a-glance time and/or date checks without dragging out my phone. Also, the smile it gives me when I see it.
> 
> I don't want a watch that's losing or gaining 20 or 30 seconds a day, but I'm cool with most anything less than that. If my watch is within 5 minutes of correct, I'm happy as a clam (or oyster).


I don't doubt there are other person such as yourself that would be "cool" with a watch that loses or gains 19 seconds a day, but can't imagine how I could be with a watch currently being manufactured. For me to be happy with a watch that is +/-19SPD the watch would have great value that has nothing to do with providing the time and really no longer served the purpose of a time keeping device for me. You may be happy as a clam with a watch that is in within 5 minutes, but I'll bet that occasionally you forget to check your "palm-sized, networked computer" and unconsciously rely on your watch. I suspect that on some of those occasions you become an unhappy clam when punctuality was critical and "the train has left the station" because you were late.



mleok said:


> A luxury watch should be something with evokes an emotional response in you, it doesn't matter how accurate the movement is, and how well finished the watch is, if it doesn't make you smile when you wear it.


Taken at face value that is really quite a sweet sentiment, but I think upon closer examination it is rather saccharine. Your comment fails to acknowledge that for some people accuracy is a large component of what "evokes an emotional response" in a luxury watch or any watch. When I read or hear people dismissing accuracy as being a significant component of what causes a watch to "make you smile" it strikes me as possibly being a conscious or unconscious covert defense of traditional mechanical movements. I don't think people who appreciated high quality mechanical movements were so cavalier in their attitude about accuracy being a significant factor in the "emotional response" a watch would evoke before the "Quartz Crisis" required a change in the paradigms used by makers of luxury mechanical movements to market their products. How well finished a watch is also contributes to the evocation of an emotional response. Finishing (symmetry and polish) is enormously influential in putting a smile on someone's face. Bright shiny objects produce an obviously observed response in all primates not just **** sapiens. Without telling her in advance about the grading, go show a woman a one carat diamond that is an I1 J with poor cut and poor symmetry and then show her the same size stone that is IF D with excellent cut and excellent symmetry; you will observe very different emotional responses.

Rolex and Omega have certainly upped their game, but I sure don't see how their performance improvements alone in anyway justify their products commanding prices higher than comparable and sometimes objectively superior Grand Seiko automatics. I think all the talk about longer service intervals for Rolex and Omega should be taken with a grain of salt until it is conclusively proven that Grand Seikos in the wild are not matching their accuracy and functioning using the same servicing schedule.

For some of us accuracy is a very important part of what puts a smile on our faces. I could have bought a GS Titanium Auto that was just as beautiful as the GS Titanium Spring Drive I bought. The SD provided a bigger smile because of its accuracy.


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## urbino (Jun 28, 2015)

Nom de Forum said:


> I'll bet that occasionally you forget to check your "palm-sized, networked computer" and unconsciously rely on your watch.


I almost always rely on my watch. That's why I wear it.  So I don't have to drag my phone out.



Nom de Forum said:


> I suspect that on some of those occasions you become an unhappy clam when punctuality was critical and "the train has left the station" because you were late.


Never happens. I know my watches are +/- 5 minutes and make allowance when its necessary.



Nom de Forum said:


> I don't doubt there are other person such as yourself that would be "cool" with a watch that loses or gains 19 seconds a day


Here your ultra-literal reading is causing you to miss my point, which is: nth-degree accuracy is not something I look for in a wristwatch. It's not something I need from a wristwatch. I already have something with me that does that, and on the rare occasion I need an ultra-accurate time reading, I'll use it. There _is_ a degree of inaccuracy I _won't_ tolerate in a watch (and it gets more stringent as the price of the watch increases), but almost no modern movement is that inaccurate.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Nom de Forum said:


> Taken at face value that is really quite a sweet sentiment, but I think upon closer examination it is rather saccharine. Your comment fails to acknowledge that for some people accuracy is a large component of what "evokes an emotional response" in a luxury watch or any watch. When I read or hear people dismissing accuracy as being a significant component of what causes a watch to "make you smile" it strikes me as possibly being a conscious or unconscious covert defense of traditional mechanical movements. I don't think people who appreciated high quality mechanical movements were so cavalier in their attitude about accuracy being a significant factor in the "emotional response" a watch would evoke before the "Quartz Crisis" required a change in the paradigms used by makers of luxury mechanical movements to market their products. How well finished a watch is also contributes to the evocation of an emotional response. Finishing (symmetry and polish) is enormously influential in putting a smile on someone's face. Bright shiny objects produce an obviously observed response in all primates not just **** sapiens. Without telling her in advance about the grading, go show a woman a one carat diamond that is an I1 J with poor cut and poor symmetry and then show her the same size stone that is IF D with excellent cut and excellent symmetry; you will observe very different emotional responses.
> 
> Rolex and Omega have certainly upped their game, but I sure don't see how their performance improvements alone in anyway justify their products commanding prices higher than comparable and sometimes objectively superior Grand Seiko automatics. I think all the talk about longer service intervals for Rolex and Omega should be taken with a grain of salt until it is conclusively proven that Grand Seikos in the wild are not matching their accuracy and functioning using the same servicing schedule.
> 
> For some of us accuracy is a very important part of what puts a smile on our faces. I could have bought a GS Titanium Auto that was just as beautiful as the GS Titanium Spring Drive I bought. The SD provided a bigger smile because of its accuracy.


With all due respect, you need to learn to parse a sentence. I am not saying accuracy and finishing isn't important, but that all the finishing and accuracy in the world doesn't make a difference if you don't like a watch.

For example, there are many Credors that share the accuracy and exceed the finishing of a Grand Seiko, but they have an extremely high price tag, and an ostentatious design that might be off putting. I suspect that you will respond differently to those than the Grand Seikos that you favor.

Circling back to the original post, the point of what I was saying is that all the accuracy and finishing of a Grand Seiko (or insert your favorite brand, say, Patek, ALS, etc.) is moot if you need to be convinced to buy one.


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## Nom de Forum (Oct 17, 2012)

urbino said:


> I almost always rely on my watch. That's why I wear it. So I don't have to drag my phone out.
> 
> Never happens. I know my watches are +/- 5 minutes and make allowance when its necessary.
> 
> Here your ultra-literal reading is causing you to miss my point, which is: nth-degree accuracy is not something I look for in a wristwatch. It's not something I need from a wristwatch. I already have something with me that does that, and on the rare occasion I need an ultra-accurate time reading, I'll use it. There _is_ a degree of inaccuracy I _won't_ tolerate in a watch (and it gets more stringent as the price of the watch increases), but almost no modern movement is that inaccurate.


Whatever makes you content. I also almost always rely on my watch not my phone for the time. Because I rely on my watch I expect it to be accurate to within a few seconds because I realize that humans make mistakes, can forget to make allowances for error, and choose to eliminate that possibility as much as possible. I like to eliminate "fudge factors" as much as possible in the time calculations I make for my life's time management. You were rather specific in your post in stating what you find to be acceptable accuracy and no "ultra-literal reading" of your post was needed on my part to reach my conclusions. In the post above you have significantly modified and specified what you find acceptable regarding accuracy. I am curious though about why for someone who doesn't need his watch to be anymore than 5 minutes within the correct time it would would matter that as the price of a watch increases there is an increasingly stringent requirement for accuracy. In fact with regard to ratio of price to accuracy, increases in accuracy quickly end in mechanical watches at price points that are very low in comparison to the lowest prices of the most expensive watch brands. What changes that makes the use of a 5 minute "fudge factor" no longer acceptable?



mleok said:


> With all due respect, you need to learn to parse a sentence. I am not saying accuracy and finishing isn't important, but that all the finishing and accuracy in the world doesn't make a difference if you don't like a watch.
> 
> For example, there are many Credors that share the accuracy and exceed the finishing of a Grand Seiko, but they have an extremely high price tag, and an ostentatious design that might be off putting. I suspect that you will respond differently to those than the Grand Seikos that you favor.
> 
> Circling back to the original post, the point of what I was saying is that all the accuracy and finishing of a Grand Seiko (or insert your favorite brand, say, Patek, ALS, etc.) is moot if you need to be convinced to buy one.


With all due respect, you need to learn what it means to parse a sentence. It is because I parsed your sentence that I detected your implying that accuracy is not that important in a watch evoking an "emotional response". I am not disagreeing with you that accuracy and finishing cannot compensate for appearance factors that are too "off putting". You are correct in your suspicions that there are Credors I don't find at all appealing. Circling back to the original post, I disagree with you "that all the accuracy and finishing of a Grand Seiko (or insert your favorite brand, say, Patek, ALS, etc.) is moot if you need to be convinced to buy one". With watches having comparable prices and appealing physical characteristics, consideration of accuracy and finishing are important factors in convincing some people to buy one watch instead of another. I like many of Rolex's designs. I could have bought one of several of those designs for what I paid for my Grand Seiko. It was accuracy and finishing that were the convincing factors in making the decision to buy a Grand Seiko instead of a Rolex, Omega, and other comparably priced and physically appealing watches. I would buy a Rolex or Omega for their superior accuracy instead of many other mechanical watches I find appealing.


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## guccimanilla (Jul 23, 2016)

mleok said:


> A luxury watch should be something with evokes an emotional response in you, it doesn't matter how accurate the movement is, and how well finished the watch is, if it doesn't make you smile when you wear it.


Absolutely.

You have to wear that watch on your wrist all day, and 99.99999% of people won't care about it.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Nom de Forum said:


> Whatever makes you content. I also almost always rely on my watch not my phone for the time. Because I rely on my watch I expect it to be accurate to within a few seconds because I realize that humans make mistakes, can forget to make allowances for error, and choose to eliminate that possibility as much as possible. I like to eliminate "fudge factors" as much as possible in the time calculations I make for my life's time management. You were rather specific in your post in stating what you find to be acceptable accuracy and no "ultra-literal reading" of your post was needed on my part to reach my conclusions. In the post above you have significantly modified and specified what you find acceptable regarding accuracy. I am curious though about why for someone who doesn't need his watch to be anymore than 5 minutes within the correct time it would would matter that as the price of a watch increases there is an increasingly stringent requirement for accuracy. In fact with regard to ratio of price to accuracy, increases in accuracy quickly end in mechanical watches at price points that are very low in comparison to the lowest prices of the most expensive watch brands. What changes that makes the use of a 5 minute "fudge factor" no longer acceptable?
> 
> With all due respect, you need to learn what it means to parse a sentence. It is because I parsed your sentence that I detected your implying that accuracy is not that important in a watch evoking an "emotional response". I am not disagreeing with you that accuracy and finishing cannot compensate for appearance factors that are too "off putting". You are correct in your suspicions that there are Credors I don't find at all appealing. Circling back to the original post, I disagree with you "that all the accuracy and finishing of a Grand Seiko (or insert your favorite brand, say, Patek, ALS, etc.) is moot if you need to be convinced to buy one". With watches having comparable prices and appealing physical characteristics, consideration of accuracy and finishing are important factors in convincing some people to buy one watch instead of another. I like many of Rolex's designs. I could have bought one of several of those designs for what I paid for my Grand Seiko. It was accuracy and finishing that were the convincing factors in making the decision to buy a Grand Seiko instead of a Rolex, Omega, and other comparably priced and physically appealing watches. I would buy a Rolex or Omega for their superior accuracy instead of many other mechanical watches I find appealing.


Clearly, you fail to grasp the role of the conditional in my statement.


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## Nom de Forum (Oct 17, 2012)

mleok said:


> Clearly, you fail to grasp the role of the conditional in my statement.


Clearly, you fail to grasp that your statement can be perceived as consciously or unconsciously implying exactly what I commented upon. Perhaps if you had been more elaborative I would not have perceived it so.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Nom de Forum said:


> Clearly, you fail to grasp that your statement can be perceived as consciously or unconsciously implying exactly what I commented upon. Perhaps if you had been more elaborative I would not have perceived it so.


I am aware that a person who lacks an adequate command of logic will read more into the statement than is intended.


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## Nom de Forum (Oct 17, 2012)

mleok said:


> I am aware that a person who lacks an adequate command of logic will read more into the statement than is intended.


I am aware that you are implying I have an inadequate command of logic. Are you aware that a person lacking adequate precision when communicating will frequently make statements that will be logically interpreted in ways that are unexpected? Are you aware of "inference" as it relates to the phrase "to read between the lines". Are you aware that history is filled with examples of persons thinking they have made a very simple and easily understood statement that is not interpreted as they expected and sometimes results in disastrous consequences? Are you aware that this dialog we are conducting has no logical reason for continuance since you clarified the meaning of your original statement? Please consider the preceding questions to be rhetorical and requiring only your contemplation and not replying answers. Adieu.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

I am a Berliner!


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## Nom de Forum (Oct 17, 2012)

T1meout said:


> I am a Berliner!


I'm going to _infer_ that you are a citizen of Berlin and not a jelly donut. ;-)


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## WindingMan (Jun 1, 2016)

JoeOBrien said:


> If you have to be convinced, then maybe they aren't for you.


This


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## ten13th (Nov 2, 2013)

Too much text not enough photos in this thread.














































Much better now. IMHO.

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## matthew P (Aug 1, 2013)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Nom de Forum said:


> I am aware that you are implying I have an inadequate command of logic. Are you aware that a person lacking adequate precision when communicating will frequently make statements that will be logically interpreted in ways that are unexpected? Are you aware of "inference" as it relates to the phrase "to read between the lines". Are you aware that history is filled with examples of persons thinking they have made a very simple and easily understood statement that is not interpreted as they expected and sometimes results in disastrous consequences? Are you aware that this dialog we are conducting has no logical reason for continuance since you clarified the meaning of your original statement? Please consider the preceding questions to be rhetorical and requiring only your contemplation and not replying answers. Adieu.


Spare me the faux indignation, surely you were aware that when you responded to my initial post that you were being intentionally insulting when you said I was expressing a "saccharine" sentiment. You have too strong a command of the language to have misread the statement the way that you claimed to have done.


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## shakin_jake (May 19, 2015)

Nom de Forum said:


> I don't doubt there are other person such as yourself that would be "cool" with a watch that loses or gains 19 seconds a day, but can't imagine how I could be with a watch currently being manufactured. For me to be happy with a watch that is +/-19SPD the watch would have great value that has nothing to do with providing the time and really no longer served the purpose of a time keeping device for me. You may be happy as a clam with a watch that is in within 5 minutes, but I'll bet that occasionally you forget to check your "palm-sized, networked computer" and unconsciously rely on your watch. I suspect that on some of those occasions you become an unhappy clam when punctuality was critical and "the train has left the station" because you were late.
> 
> Taken at face value that is really quite a sweet sentiment, but I think upon closer examination it is rather saccharine. Your comment fails to acknowledge that for some people accuracy is a large component of what "evokes an emotional response" in a luxury watch or any watch. When I read or hear people dismissing accuracy as being a significant component of what causes a watch to "make you smile" it strikes me as possibly being a conscious or unconscious covert defense of traditional mechanical movements. I don't think people who appreciated high quality mechanical movements were so cavalier in their attitude about accuracy being a significant factor in the "emotional response" a watch would evoke before the "Quartz Crisis" required a change in the paradigms used by makers of luxury mechanical movements to market their products. How well finished a watch is also contributes to the evocation of an emotional response. Finishing (symmetry and polish) is enormously influential in putting a smile on someone's face. Bright shiny objects produce an obviously observed response in all primates not just **** sapiens. Without telling her in advance about the grading, go show a woman a one carat diamond that is an I1 J with poor cut and poor symmetry and then show her the same size stone that is IF D with excellent cut and excellent symmetry; you will observe very different emotional responses.
> 
> ...


~~~Bingo!...truth has spoken, at least someone else thinks the way I do. I knew there was a reason I come over to the GS forum once in while to read and peruse posts...

Admittedly, I'm the bastard at the family reunion. I have the GS spring drive in a Seiko Prospec watch (SBDB009=, and like the author here I'm quoting, I bought the watch for the movement

I came very close to buying a used GS spring drive diver like Matthew has but the cheapskate in me found out Seiko decided to use the 9r65 movement, less the finished rotor, and put it into their Ti Tuna and call it the 5r65...thank you Mr. Seiko! for letting rif raf like me taste the GS candy<LOL> $2K bought me a lot of spring driving diver










Best,

Jake
Reddick Fla.
BRILLIANT'S LAW OF LIMITED AMBITION: If you can't learn how to do it well learn how to enjoy doing it poorly


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## Mirabello1 (Sep 1, 2011)

ten13th said:


> Too much text not enough photos in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent, beautiful pictures... Exactly what this thread needed...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Nom de Forum (Oct 17, 2012)

mleok said:


> Spare me the faux indignation, surely you were aware that when you responded to my initial post that you were being intentionally insulting when you said I was expressing a "saccharine" sentiment. You have too strong a command of the language to have misread the statement the way that you claimed to have done.


How ironic! We have exchanged positions in this dialog. You have inferred that I felt indignation when replying to your barbed wit when I actually felt bemusement and then responded in kind. No need to feel insulted because you wrote something that could be interpreted as being saccharine; we all occasionally unconsciously make such comments. Your further elaboration convinces me it was at worst an unconsciously made saccharine comment and doubt it was a conscious act. I sure have you fooled, because my command of the English language is certainly much weaker than you perceive.


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## matthew P (Aug 1, 2013)

shakin_jake said:


> I came very close to buying a used GS spring drive diver like Matthew has but the cheapskate in me found out Seiko decided to use the 9r65 movement, less the finished rotor, and put it into their Ti Tuna and call it the 5r65...thank you Mr. Seiko! for letting rif raf like me taste the GS candy $2K bought me a lot of spring driving diver


My 029 has a finished rotor?
I only have eyes for the lion on the case back. After the MM300 I thought that was a pleasant step up. 
But I have to agree with the accuracy being a much appreciated bonus, especially for a daily wear watch that never stops running. 
My power reserve is almost always in the flat/ fully charged position so I don't really notice it. The " all the way to the edge of the dial" hand set and the sweep of the second hand are appreciated daily and the glint of the hour markers and contrast bezel still catch my eye/ appreciation. 
I've worn it everyday on this three week work trip and the watch head its self never gets tired..... I'm changing straps on the weekend to liven up the feel, wish it still came with stock rubber.
Not having to remember the last time you corrected the time is fantastic...... At plus two seconds per week I never worry that it's going to be enough off to matter, I just correct it once a month........ Pleasant change.


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lunar Watch Club (Dec 7, 2014)

I think a GS will be the pinnacle of Japanese watches in my quest to acquire one watch from every watchmaking nation


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## Nom de Forum (Oct 17, 2012)

Besso said:


> I think a GS will be the pinnacle of Japanese watches in my quest to acquire one watch from every watchmaking nation


Consider getting a Grand Seiko Spring Drive because no other watchmaking nation produces anything that can compare to its superior mechanical movement's smoothly sweeping second hand and accuracy.


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## Tseg (Mar 29, 2014)

Nom de Forum said:


> Consider getting a Grand Seiko Spring Drive because no other watchmaking nation produces anything that can compare to its superior mechanical movement's smoothly sweeping second hand and accuracy.


While I enjoy my GS, it was finally my $120 Bulova Military that gained .1 seconds over 6 months and whose second hand smoothly ticks 16 times per second (60% improvement over my hi-beat) that finally satiated my watch accuracy bug. True, it is a quartz, but after experiencing such accuracy I've rid myself of my obsession/quest for an amazingly accurate automatic (even ones with quartz components). Of course, Bulova is now owned by Citizen.


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## PJ S (Apr 29, 2013)

^
The Bulova is still stepping, which due to visual acuity appears to be smoothly sweeping, but you should know that Spring Drive is truly smooth.


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## PJ S (Apr 29, 2013)

Besso said:


> I think a GS will be the pinnacle of Japanese watches in my quest to acquire one watch from every watchmaking nation


Credor, if it must be from a recognised brand - otherwise there's at least 2 other independent Japanese watchmakers that could be considered as equal or better.
Hajime Aasoka - self-taught, and his first watch was a tourbillon - and Masahiro Kikuno.


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## shakin_jake (May 19, 2015)

matthew P said:


> My 029 has a finished rotor?


~~~yes!, don't believe me?!?, here's whatcha do...get cherself one of these here case back opening tools










Flip the watch over jus like in the pikshur, now hold your watch in yur left hand and use yur right hand to remove the case back and youll see the finished rotor. Dats how they do it in the Morioka Studio in Jap Pan

In all seriousness, Mister Seiko figured since you liked yur mid tier MM300 so much, he could save some coin and put a solid case back on your Hi dollar GS diver, thinkin you wouldn't miss seeing the nicer finished rotor bridge. He mighta even gave you a lessor finished rotor bridge like I got in my Prospex spring drive, jus to save even mo money

Now!, when & if you ever get tired of those long scraggly hairs on your arm gettin pinched between the bezel and case,










I have the answer for you!




























Best,

=
Jake
Reddick Fla.
Warning! This member tends to use sarcasm as a regular form of communication. If a post seems offensive, before you panic and fly off the handle, reread the post and imagine it being said with a sideways grin. Life's too short!


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## Collectionist (Aug 23, 2015)

carlhaluss said:


> There is one other factor about my ownership of Grand Seiko, that I have never found with any other brand. I came to this realization only recently, after doing a tribute thread about my collection of four Grand Seiko models: So far, in my many years of exploring and enjoying the world of fine timepieces, I have been often swayed by, and even envious, of the acquisitions of other forum members, to the point where I often feel that I must obtain a particular model, or to be disappointed that I could not afford a certain model o|. Not until I had achieved my small Grand Seiko collection, have these feelings dissipated. It is almost a feeling that no matter how much money one has to spend on a watch, in my eyes the quality and craftsmanship cannot be improved upon. As subjective as this may sound, I am relating this only as it applies to my personal experience. My total satisfaction in being fortunate enough to own such timepieces. And a level of satisfaction that I felt would never be achieved.
> 
> Now, I am not saying that other Grand Seiko models or models of other brands do not appeal to me, nor that I will never buy another watch. Only that, at this point in time, I am totally satisfied with my collection, and certainly not in any hurry to acquire another watch. Regardless of which one of the four watches I am wearing at any given time, I never find myself wishing that I had chosen to wear a different one.
> 
> ...


Agreed here! Of all my watches I would not even contemplate selling the Grand Seikos. They are incredible. 
Also because of the superior finishing legibility is tops well into the night, light reflects off the hands in a uniquely GS way. Below the SBGF021..


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## Herman65 (Nov 28, 2015)

I bought the SBVG007 and people would think I'm crazy for buying a quartz for over $2000. The beauty of owning a GS is that YOU know that the fit, finish and quality is impeccable. Most of my watches are automatic but the GS Quartz had to be in my collection.
A company that spends this much time and effort on a Quartz is on another level imho. They grow their own quartz crystals for God's sake. 
It may not be for everyone, but the most important thing is that its for ME.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Btruijens said:


> Agreed here! Of all my watches I would not even contemplate selling the Grand Seikos. They are incredible.
> Also because of the superior finishing legibility is tops well into the night, light reflects off the hands in a uniquely GS way. Below the SBGF021..


That is a beautiful piece, one I have not seen before. Good point you bring up about the design and finish of hands and markers, and the ability to read the time in the dark. And I just prefer the looks of hands and markers without the added lume anyway.


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## Ahriman4891 (Oct 18, 2008)

Herman65 said:


> I bought the SBVG007 and people would think I'm crazy for buying a quartz for over $2000.


Just shows how strong the anti-quartz propaganda is. I myself never thought that way. How is a jeweled, thermocompensated, high-torque quartz less horologically "worthy" than a run of the mill ETA in a Longines or something? 9F is a great movement, the case/dial craftsmanship is comfortably above the rest at the price point (also, the "grammar of design" 44GS case is historically interesting), what's not to like? Congrats on your watch, well chosen |>


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