# Seiko 4R36 automatic caliber with hand winding and hacking, how accurate is yours?



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

Hi,
I bought a new monster recently and I would like to know how accurate is your watch running the same 4R36 caliber.

Mine lost 7 seconds since yesterday, I hoped to something better, I know that it is not a chronometer and that
this is a cheap watch but I heard of people with really better accuracy.

Let's see how many minutes it will lost at the end of the month.


----------



## Topher1556 (Aug 22, 2007)

If it's brand new your -7 seconds really doesn't matter. It can take a couple of weeks of daily wear for these to "settle in" to a predictable pattern. The answer to your question is the accuracy will be just like that of the 7S movement that the 4R is based on.


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

from what I read on the net generally people tends to say that 4R36 is .more accurate than 7S26.
I will wait a month or two.


----------



## azigman (May 1, 2013)

-7 seconds. Celebrate! Be happy! You have a winner.

Enjoy your new monster. I certainly enjoy mine and don't get anywhere near that accuracy.

Be well,

AZ


sblantipodi said:


> Hi,
> I bought a new monster recently and I would like to know how accurate is your watch running the same 4R36 caliber.
> 
> Mine lost 7 seconds since yesterday, I hoped to something better, I know that it is not a chronometer and that
> ...


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

azigman said:


> -7 seconds. Celebrate! Be happy! You have a winner.
> 
> Enjoy your new monster. I certainly enjoy mine and don't get anywhere near that accuracy.
> 
> ...


why a winner? how seconds do you lost/gain per day?


----------



## rfortson (Feb 18, 2012)

Just off of chronometer spec for around $200 sounds like excellent performance. You could probably adjust it closer but why?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

rfortson said:


> Just off of chronometer spec for around $200 sounds like excellent performance. You could probably adjust it closer but why?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


because I like to be punctual and I set my watch once a month. 
Ok, it is too soon to talk about accuracy, I bought the watch on Monday, I will update the thread next month.


----------



## rfortson (Feb 18, 2012)

sblantipodi said:


> because I like to be punctual and I set my watch once a month.
> Ok, it is too soon to talk about accuracy, I bought the watch on Monday, I will update the thread next month.


Sounds like you'd benefit from a nice quartz. Same look and build quality, and much better accuracy.


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

rfortson said:


> Sounds like you'd benefit from a nice quartz. Same look and build quality, and much better accuracy.


When I need to use a quartz, I read the hours from my phone


----------



## himmelblau (Mar 8, 2010)

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but the accuracy for the Seiko 4R36 movement is: +45/-35 sec/day. So losing 7 seconds in a day is well within the movements specifications.

Enjoy your new watch.


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

himmelblau said:


> Sorry if this sounds harsh, but the accuracy for the Seiko 4R36 movement is: +45/-35 sec/day. So losing 7 seconds in a day is well within the movements specifications.
> 
> Enjoy your new watch.


I know it, but why don't improve if you can improve?
I like to have things at their best, so if it loose 7 seconds a day, why don't regulate it to try to reduce the error? 

I will regulate my seiko as soon as it will made a month of life.


----------



## Triton9 (Sep 30, 2011)

My is 10 seconds per day and I am happy with it.


----------



## himmelblau (Mar 8, 2010)

sblantipodi said:


> I know it, but why don't improve if you can improve?
> I like to have things at their best, so if it loose 7 seconds a day, why don't regulate it to try to reduce the error?
> 
> I will regulate my seiko as soon as it will made a month of life.


Remember to try leaving the watch in different positions over-night i.e crown down, crown up, face down and face up, as this will make a difference to the accuracy.


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

himmelblau said:


> Remember to try leaving the watch in different positions over-night i.e crown down, crown up, face down and face up, as this will make a difference to the accuracy.


I sleep with the watch, no way I wear it off during night.


----------



## Mustard-Cutter (Nov 14, 2013)

When new mine kept almost perfect time whilst worn and gained about 7 dial up in the watch box over 24 hours, as it broke in it would lose about 5 seconds whilst worn and gain a couple of seconds dial up.


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

Mustard-Cutter said:


> When new mine kept almost perfect time whilst worn and gained about 7 dial up in the watch box over 24 hours, as it broke in it would lose about 5 seconds whilst worn and gain a couple of seconds dial up.


does this means that the watch loose accuracy over time?
we are talking about months or years?


----------



## Topher1556 (Aug 22, 2007)

sblantipodi said:


> I know it, but why don't improve if you can improve?
> I like to have things at their best, so if it loose 7 seconds a day, why don't regulate it to try to reduce the error?
> 
> I will regulate my seiko as soon as it will made a month of life.


Because even if you do regulate it so that the watch runs even more accurately, it cannot maintain that accuracy over a wide range of operating conditions. Accuracy for these movements is quite dependant on the level of power reserve in the mainspring too. These movements, though capable of amazing accuracy, are built with a focus to be robust and reliable.

After you've worn it for a couple of weeks, recheck the daily accuracy. If you track this daily accuracy and get a good average, you can have the watch regulation tailored to how you wear the watch. Over time (think in terms of years), the accuracy will deviate but I'm betting it will be good and consistent enough that you would be satisfied.


----------



## Splinter Faction (Feb 23, 2013)

I guess I got lucky. Mine runs less than +2 (crown up at night).


----------



## Mustard-Cutter (Nov 14, 2013)

sblantipodi said:


> does this means that the watch loose accuracy over time?
> we are talking about months or years?


Slowed down after a few weeks, so if it's slow out of the box it will get worse, fast out of the box and it'll get better.


----------



## Howa (Mar 7, 2013)

I have so many different watches that it is a rare occasion to wear the same one for more than 8 hours, then I have to set it again the next time I wear it which could be several days. I cannot imagine even noticing a loss or gain of a few seconds much less being concerned about that. With all due respect, and saying this half jokingly. .......get a life, or a quartz.


----------



## Splinter Faction (Feb 23, 2013)

Mustard-Cutter said:


> Slowed down after a few weeks, so if it's slow out of the box it will get worse, fast out of the box and it'll get better.


Is that a general rule for all movements?


----------



## catalinsb75 (Feb 12, 2014)

I was lucky, -3s/day in the first 10 days. I keep it face up during the night as advised on some forums, it helps gain a few seconds (or loose less).


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

iit seems that my watch is loosing a bit more seconds every day it pass.
now is 10 seconds slower per day.


----------



## catalinsb75 (Feb 12, 2014)

Are you wearing it as recommended? More than 8 hours / day I think.
It seems you have to let them for a few months to stabilize then go for an adjustment if they stabilize at a really bad value.
Also, even if the common idea is that resting with the face up will help, you should try different positions (face up, face down, crown up, crown down) to see which will fit better for your watch.


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

catalinsb75 said:


> Are you wearing it as recommended? More than 8 hours / day I think.
> It seems you have to let them for a few months to stabilize then go for an adjustment if they stabilize at a really bad value.
> Also, even if the common idea is that resting with the face up will help, you should try different positions (face up, face down, crown up, crown down) to see which will fit better for your watch.


I wear it 24 hours a day, 7 day per week at the moment.
I wear the watch when sleeping so there is no "resting position" for my watch.


----------



## 20131113 (Nov 13, 2013)

mine was losing about 10 seconds per day. i tried to regulate it. big mistake. should have just sold the watch. now it's not running at all. any ideas of the problem? how to fix it? how much it is worth to sell now?


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

20131113 said:


> mine was losing about 10 seconds per day. i tried to regulate it. big mistake. should have just sold the watch. now it's not running at all. any ideas of the problem? how to fix it? how much it is worth to sell now?


have you regulated it by your own?
what do you mean for is not running at all? does the watch stopped working?


----------



## 20131113 (Nov 13, 2013)

sblantipodi said:


> have you regulated it by your own?
> what do you mean for is not running at all? does the watch stopped working?


yes, i regulated it myself. seemed simple enough. i was getting closer and closer to +/- 0. then one day after regulation, stopped running entirely. no movement whatsoever now.


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

20131113 said:


> yes, i regulated it myself. seemed simple enough. i was getting closer and closer to +/- 0. then one day after regulation, stopped running entirely. no movement whatsoever now.


have you tried to give the watch to an expert to see what's happened?


----------



## 20131113 (Nov 13, 2013)

sblantipodi said:


> have you tried to give the watch to an expert to see what's happened?


how much would that cost?


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

20131113 said:


> how much would that cost?


less than throw out the watch.


----------



## DM71 (Feb 6, 2009)

sblantipodi said:


> I know it, but *why don't improve if you can improve*?
> I like to have things at their best, so if it loose 7 seconds a day, why don't regulate it to try to reduce the error?
> 
> I will regulate my seiko as soon as it will made a month of life.


Hi sblantipodi,

Did you ever regulated a Seiko movement? I'm asking because even if the adjustment is easy to do, chances are that when you're finished with the adjustment, it's going to be worst. The small lever you have to move is very sensitive and to speed up just a few seconds is not an easy task. You might have to play with it more than you think.

I know, I've been there before.

-7 sec/day is very good for a mechanical movement. I would just leave it as is and enjoy the watch. Good luck with your decision.


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

DM71 said:


> Hi sblantipodi,
> 
> Did you ever regulated a Seiko movement? I'm asking because even if the adjustment is easy to do, chances are that when you're finished with the adjustment, it's going to be worst. The small lever you have to move is very sensitive and to speed up just a few seconds is not an easy task. You might have to play with it more than you think.
> 
> ...


I have a watchmaker friend, I will bring the watch to him in the hope that it could be something better than me using the appropriate instruments.


----------



## Mike_Dowling (May 4, 2013)

+10 seconds a day consistently.


----------



## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

I got lucky with mine. It's consistently +/- 1 sec. per day _when worn_, which makes it the most accurate watch I've owned, including lots of ETAs (though if I had them regulated, they would equal or better the Seiko's performance). My 4R36 does have positional variance and isochronism (variance on state of wind) but when worn the variances cancel themselves out to achieve this accuracy. The watch is actually too large for me and I'm considering selling it but waver on that because it's just so damn accurate!

BTW, it had this accuracy from its first wearing and hasn't changed in the 4 months I've owned it.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver (Aug 7, 2009)

In the last 3 weeks I've bought 3 new Superior Divers,2 with 4R36 & 1 with 7S36.One of the 4R's is -4 secs./24 hrs.the other thinks it's an Indy car as it is running +60 secs./24 hrs. & the 7S36 is kicking both their butts running +2 secs./24!


----------



## ec633 (Jan 6, 2012)

20131113 said:


> yes, i regulated it myself. seemed simple enough. i was getting closer and closer to +/- 0. then one day after regulation, stopped running entirely. no movement whatsoever now.


 That could have been what is termed 'overbanking' . The locked balance jewel is not able to swing back into the pallet fork. You must have disturbed the balance badly when regulating the movement.


----------



## raze (Nov 28, 2010)

Got my Armida A7 with the NH35A running at minus 60 seconds. After having a watch maker adjust it 2 separate times I have it running at +1 sec on wrist over a 12hr period. After setting it down face up overnight its running +7. Just as good as my old Sumo and MM300.


----------



## 20131113 (Nov 13, 2013)

ec633 said:


> That could have been what is termed 'overbanking' . The locked balance jewel is not able to swing back into the pallet fork. You must have disturbed the balance badly when regulating the movement.


any way to fix it myself? approx. how much would a repair person charge?


----------



## LeeMorgan (Jun 3, 2012)

20131113 said:


> any way to fix it myself? approx. how much would a repair person charge?


You did something bad in the attempt to regulate your watch (let's say a quite easy task) and now you keep asking if there is any way you fix it back?

I would go to a watchsmith asking to put a quartz in it!
Easy, cheap and you won't get mad with this obsessive idea to let a cheap mov run better than + - 1/day


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

LeeMorgan said:


> You did something bad in the attempt to regulate your watch (let's say a quite easy task) and now you keep asking if there is any way you fix it back?
> 
> I would go to a watchsmith asking to put a quartz in it!
> Easy, cheap and you won't get mad with this obsessive idea to let a cheap mov run better than + - 1/day


The most obsessive things I see around the forum is your answers.


----------



## LeeMorgan (Jun 3, 2012)

sblantipodi said:


> The most obsessive things I see around the forum is your answers.


you can skip my post if they disturd you, in contrary I love your threads and posts


----------



## gippo (Nov 8, 2011)

Manual to adjust the caliber o|


----------



## 20131113 (Nov 13, 2013)

LeeMorgan said:


> You did something bad in the attempt to regulate your watch (let's say a quite easy task) and now you keep asking if there is any way you fix it back?
> 
> I would go to a watchsmith asking to put a quartz in it!
> Easy, cheap and you won't get mad with this obsessive idea to let a cheap mov run better than + - 1/day


only way to get better is to practice. and i'm not sure i want to invest any more money into the watch.


----------



## catalinsb75 (Feb 12, 2014)

I made a study of my 4R36 accuracy over the last 40 days. 
This is the average in seconds / day calculated with different resting positions over the night, each position used for 10 nights:
Face up : -3.2 seconds / day
Face down: -3.6 seconds / day
Crown down: -4.8 seconds / day
Crown up: -6.4 seconds / day


----------



## JohnA (Dec 4, 2008)

My collection is pretty broad - in age and movement quality. With mechanical watches I rate anything under 15sec a day as acceptable, anything under 10 seconds as excellent and anything under 5 seconds either way as miraculous. New, my MM1000 was half a sec slow per day and when I realised how good it was I nearly hit the roof (it's drifted since). I have some terribly inaccurate watches that I love. My Seagull 1963 is a shocker - minutes out every day. But I love the watch and given it will cost half its value to adjust I just put it 5 mins behind every morning. I have to wind it daily anyway so tweaking it is no biggie. Be happy OP. Your watch is more accurate that all my 6r15s, and nearly as accurate as my MM300, Orient 300, 6r20 Premier and Grand Seiko 9s64-powered SBGW047. My 7s26 monster is about 22-25 secs out and it varies, something I really dislike.


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

My monster lost 16 seconds since the first of March. The worst case varies from -3 to +3 but it averages the -1 a day.
16 seconds lost in 20 days is a wow result, I hope it will maintein its accuracy for a long time


----------



## Hammond B3 (Jun 19, 2014)

Regarding 4R36 movement accuracy, my SRP423 50th Anniversary watch which I acquired 50 days ago hasn't been set since the second day of ownership. After getting to know the watch and its features, I've left well enough alone. The watch is dead on. I wear it all day and take it off at night. It's my first watch in thirty years. I remember having a Seiko (and loving it) in the seventies and I had a Rolex briefly in the early 80s until it was stolen. At that time I pledged to never wear a tie or watch again. But you all know that watches have soul. Still no wearing of ties though. My life long hobby is audio equipment and I can spend 30K on a turntable. The attraction of a mechanical watch for me is its design. I don't need the latest greatest thing anymore but am of an age where I appreciate the stars, So I really hope to get a Blue Sumo and get out. Too many similarities to audio. I could very easily get nutty over watches too. Bye all.


----------



## Aquahallic (Jun 8, 2014)

In a 24hr. period my SRP307 is +25-30sec. slow per day while my SKX007J (7S26C) is 0 sec. / +1 sec. per day.


----------



## eg01st (Jun 9, 2016)

I have had my SRP637 for 7 months now, and it is still about 1 minute per week slow. I wear it constantly, often even in bed. 
For comparison, before that I was wearing Orient Blue Mako, and it was only around +30 sec/week. Really good movement, I still have that watch.
Now I have got used to it, every few weeks I set my watch to +2 minutes, and then wait to see it being late again.


----------



## VintageChris (Oct 5, 2016)

I just started a similar thread because I appear to be losing 38 seconds a day on my newly bought SRP775. (https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...hare_tid=4792335&share_fid=13788&share_type=t). I hate to hijack an old thread but I have found some of this info very useful.


Topher1556 said:


> If it's brand new your -7 seconds really doesn't matter. It can take a couple of weeks of daily wear for these to "settle in" to a predictable pattern. The answer to your question is the accuracy will be just like that of the 7S movement that the 4R is based on.


Can anyone explain why it takes time for a new watch to settle in to a predictable pattern?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## VintageChris (Oct 5, 2016)

himmelblau said:


> Sorry if this sounds harsh, but the accuracy for the Seiko 4R36 movement is: +45/-35 sec/day. So losing 7 seconds in a day is well within the movements specifications.
> 
> Enjoy your new watch.


Himmelblau, I read somewhere that the 4r36 is rated to +/- 30 seconds a day. Can I ask where you got +45/-35 from? I seem to be losing 38 seconds a day on my new SRP775 and, unless it settles down, I'd like to see if I can get it regulated/replaced under warranty.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

VintageChris said:


> Himmelblau, I read somewhere that the 4r36 is rated to +/- 30 seconds a day. Can I ask where you got +45/-35 from? I seem to be losing 38 seconds a day on my new SRP775 and, unless it settles down, I'd like to see if I can get it regulated/replaced under warranty.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


on every seiko specs is written -35/+45...
but don't be afraid, they generally do much much better than that


----------



## VintageChris (Oct 5, 2016)

I got home and checked the warranty booklet I received eith the watch and found this entry which refers to "approximately +/- 25". Strangely this page is pasted into the booklet - not sure if it store specific, Seiko Australia specific, or a world wide update?

In any event given that today I was -38 I think it gives me a pretty good argument that I should be able to get it regulated/replaced under warranty (assuming it doesn't settle down over the next week or so).









Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## Hippopotamodon (Jan 20, 2016)

VintageChris said:


> I got home and checked the warranty booklet I received eith the watch and found this entry which refers to "approximately +/- 25". Strangely this page is pasted into the booklet - not sure if it store specific, Seiko Australia specific, or a world wide update?
> 
> In any event given that today I was -38 I think it gives me a pretty good argument that I should be able to get it regulated/replaced under warranty (assuming it doesn't settle down over the next week or so).
> 
> ...


I would try to get it regulated under warranty. Even if the stated accuracy of the 4R36 is +/-25, +/-30 or +45/-35, (that if I am not mistaken it's the latter) you are out of spec. So a regulation under warranty is something you should ask for.


----------



## leong33 (Aug 27, 2013)

I have one SRP779 when bought it runs at 1 min fast. Since under warranty, I sent for regulation. Now runs at about 5sec/ day.

In another new Seiko 5 with 4R36, i bought some tools to try regulate it, but i screw it up. I think the hairspring over stretch by my tool and send for repair. Later it came back with 10sec/ day. I ask for further regulation, now runs at +1sec/day. This movement is incredible if you regulate it.

I always think that why Seiko does not regulate all these movements e,g 8L35, 8L55, 4R35, 6R15 etc. If they do, more will buy these and less will go for Grand Seiko


----------



## sblantipodi (Jul 14, 2013)

Hippopotamodon said:


> I would try to get it regulated under warranty. Even if the stated accuracy of the 4R36 is +/-25, +/-30 or +45/-35, (that if I am not mistaken it's the latter) you are out of spec. So a regulation under warranty is something you should ask for.


strange neither of my booklet report that 
http://jdvos.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/seiko-4R36.pdf


----------



## ck13 (Apr 27, 2018)

I put one in my skx007 and after a week on the wrist it was -15 in total. The first 2 weeks it was -2 a day.
Extremely lucky


----------



## ck13 (Apr 27, 2018)

I put one in my skx007 and after a week on the wrist it was -15 in total. The first 2 weeks it was -2 a day.
Extremely lucky


----------



## Keye Skware (Jun 12, 2014)

I regulated the 4R36 in my Turtle down to about -1.5/spd through good old fashioned trial and error. Probably took about 5 rounds of +120/spd and then -80/spd until I hit the right spot. I would have definitely stopped at anywhere near +/-5/spd. 
The one thing I noticed is that it is very sensitive to not being fully wound. I took it off for about 22 hours to wear another watch and it lost like 50 seconds in that time. My ETA's and 6R15's wouldn't have changed nearly as much. I reset the time, gave it a couple hand-winds, and it's back to keeping great time.


----------



## TurboHarm (Aug 24, 2014)

I am totally with you Howa.I run the same way,guess i have waaay to many watches and not enough arms LOL


----------

