# Does setting date between 9pm and 3am damage Tags



## TOPDOG9000

I cant believe that of all the internet reading, and forums, and researching watches Ive done, I never knew it was not recommended to set the date between these hours. However I just wanted to get some insight from some of the watch experts here regarding this and Tag Heuer. I assume certain movements or watches would be more prone to damage by this than others. Also I've read that they say this in the manual, but In all 3 Tags I own I have yet to find it in the manual. Ive read them multiple times to ensure proper care of my watches. Do certain tags or movements have protection from such damage? Also I read in another topic that some of the watches change date at different times now because of damage, and even watches that are not damaged change either early or late by minutes or hours. My Tag 2000 Classic Automatic is probably 6 or 7 years old, and I've never known about the correct method for setting the date and decided to wind it up and check it out today. I would have been happy if the date changed somewhere around midnight but i was surprised at what I found. After properly setting the time and date this morning I eagerly awaited midnight and for a watch that has yet to be serviced, the date chaged at exactly 12:00am. I am so happy to know that I didnt damage my watch, or at least badly since it changed on the dot. I believe it is the Calibre 5 inside, and it must be a testament to it being a good movement. Just thought I'd share my experience, and I enjoy reading the advice and comments from the expert members on the forum.


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## Watchbreath

Allways set the date at mid-day. The safe zone is usually 10am to 2pm.


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## bmwfreak

I think it's just the valjoux 7750 (Calibre 16) you have to be careful when setting the date.


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## megane2

For Calibre 36 (aka El Primero), do not adjust the date between 11pm-1am.


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## BigJunior

U


Watchbreath said:


> Allways set the date at mid-day. The safe zone is usually 10am to 2pm.


Now if you set the date after 12 mid-day, isn't your watch going to change dates at mid-day instead of mid-night..Unless you advance the second hand 12 hrs.


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## hristowatch

Calibre 16 definitely has the language not to change in the manual and it also takes a few hours for date/day to change. Calibre 17, my manual does not warn against changing and the date changes instantly at 12 without any lag.


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## bmwfreak

BigJunior said:


> U
> 
> Now if you set the date after 12 mid-day, isn't your watch going to change dates at mid-day instead of mid-night..Unless you advance the second hand 12 hrs.


I always set the date one day before the actual date and advance the hands until the date turns so I know I've got the AM/PM correct.


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## TOPDOG9000

Interesting...I've seen some breitling manuals warn against this, and thought it pertained to any automatic movement, but if it's not in a certain manual maybe that movement isn't as prone to damage. When I get my GC calibre 17 back from TAG I'm going to check my date changeover and compare. In my calibre 5 and 17 both manuals do not mention it, and I tested my calibre 5 as mentioned in the first post, and I'm curious to see how my grand carrera operates. I know the carerra which is calibre 16 I believe does mention it in the manual so it seems odd tag would leave such an important care tip out if it pertained to all movements.


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## Wisconsin Proud

On some movements such as the cal 16 (7750) the date wheel is engaged for an extended period of time during the date changeover. This period can start well before 12:00 and end well after 12:00. It does not have an instant clickover like the other ETA calibres. If you change the date manually while the date wheel is engaged with the movement, you may cause damage.

Just to be safe, I don't change the date of any watch during the midnight hours.


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## bmwfreak

Wisconsin Proud said:


> On some movements such as the cal 16 (7750) the date wheel is engaged for an extended period of time during the date changeover. This period can start well before 12:00 and end well after 12:00. It does not have an instant clickover like the other ETA calibres. If you change the date manually while the date wheel is engaged with the movement, you may cause damage.
> 
> Just to be safe, I don't change the date of any watch during the midnight hours.


Good advice. So if you just absolutely need to change the date between 10 and 2, couldn't you simply advance the hands allowing the date to change before using the quick set date function?

My older mechanical chronographs don't even offer a quick set date. You have to manually advance the hands. It's such a pain, I don't even bother with setting the proper date. Same is true for my older Tag quartz chronos. No quick set feature, you have to advance the hour hand 12 hours in order to change the date.


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## Wisconsin Proud

bmwfreak said:


> Same is true for my older Tag quartz chronos. No quick set feature, you have to advance the hour hand 12 hours in order to change the date.


Yes, that's the 251 quartz. Some consider that date setting procedure a positive as the hour can be changed quickly for daylight savings time. I find it just as easy to advance the minute hand one hour and still have the quick set date feature.


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## rage2

This video shows what happens if you change the date during the restricted time.






You won't be able to and forcibly doing so will break the date change gear.


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## bmwfreak

rage2 said:


> This video shows what happens if you change the date during the restricted time.
> 
> You won't be able to and forcibly doing so will break the date change gear.


Very cool. Thanks for posting!


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## Wisconsin Proud

And if you do, that cop in the video will arrest you! :-d


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## Close 2 Cool

Wisconsin Proud said:


> Just to be safe, I don't change the date of any watch during the midnight hours.


 Same here. I'm not even 100% sure that's the case for my 3 watches but I just stay away. If I need to set it, I usually just advance the time to 4 or 5 to start, then do what I gotta do.


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## enricodepaoli

Rage, thanks for posting this cool video showing one of the issues people question most.

Thanks much,

Enrico


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## LouS

rage2 said:


> This video shows what happens if you change the date during the restricted time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You won't be able to and forcibly doing so will break the date change gear.


great vid! can't get a better explanation than that - Thank you.


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## aeroman

for such a price, why it has such bug, watch should be solid!


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## Wisconsin Proud

aeroman said:


> for such a price, why it has such bug, watch should be solid!


It has nothing to do with price and everything about knowing this movement and how it works. Many brands use it with some costing many thousands more than TAG. It's a proven design that's been arond since 1974, not a bug.


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## decipher28

aeroman said:


> for such a price, why it has such bug, watch should be solid!


you do understand this is a complicated movement with 300 individual parts in it.One tiny triviality doesn't mean it has a bug or fault its just the way it is.


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## TimemindeR

aeroman said:


> for such a price, why it has such bug, watch should be solid!


It's not a "bug" it's inevitable. This is a highly complicated machine and things must be done in certain order to prevent damage. This goes for any sophisticated machanical object it has nothing to do with price. And for as many parts as it has this is the only precaution when operating it, that's very impressive.


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## aeroman

this is absolutely design bug flaw in watch industry hundred year ago, I am surprised that this issue still has no solution in our modern 21st



TimemindeR said:


> It's not a "bug" it's inevitable. This is a highly complicated machine and things must be done in certain order to prevent damage. This goes for any sophisticated machanical object it has nothing to do with price. And for as many parts as it has this is the only precaution when operating it, that's very impressive.


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## derek0812

I have a new Carrera Day/Date and the day/date don't change completely until about 12:07 AM each day. Oh well.


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## dkatunc

aeroman said:


> for such a price, why it has such bug, watch should be solid!


Do you consider Ferrari sports cars to have a "bug" in them because you can tear up the gear box if you shift without using the clutch?

And there is a "fix" for this bug - it's called a battery operated quartz movement. (Just like there's a "fix" for the Ferrari called an automatic transmission... it's just not quite the same experience though, is it?).


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## aeroman

Today,Ferrari has dual clutch transmission, it automatic engage/disenage cluth during shift. This is impossible hundred years ago, With mordern electronics, the dual clutch auto-manual tranny is available and solve the issue of tearing up gearbox.

For quartz, it has same issue, no date adjustment between some time. I believe there is a mechnical solution for this flaw. Adjusting date damage watch, this is NOT an acceptable design! As a consumer, I can not change it and just accept this.



dkatunc said:


> Do you consider Ferrari sports cars to have a "bug" in them because you can tear up the gear box if you shift without using the clutch?
> 
> And there is a "fix" for this bug - it's called a battery operated quartz movement. (Just like there's a "fix" for the Ferrari called an automatic transmission... it's just not quite the same experience though, is it?).


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## Eeeb

aeroman said:


> this is absolutely design bug flaw in watch industry hundred year ago, I am surprised that this issue still has no solution in our modern 21st


Movements evolve over time with newer ones having improvements the market demands.

The Venus 188 is a chronograph designed in the 1940s. It doesn't even have a date. From it was developed the Valjoux 7730. This product of the 60's is also a manual wind chronograph but with a number of improvements to the chronographic mechanism. From it was developed the Valjoux 7750.

The Valjoux 7750 has a number of improvements mandated by the market in the 70's. It's an automatic. It hacks. It operates at 28800 beats per hour. And it added the day-date complication. To make this complication more usable, it even added quick setting, which, at the time, was not common.

With all those improvements, adding 'you can change the date even if the date is automatically changing' was not considered important. I'm not sure the market still cares. But movements being designed 40 years later probably have it anyway.

Automotive engines whose timing belt fails can be designed so the piston does not strike the valves (some valve somewhere is bound to be open!). But most engines still go to la la land if your belt fails while it is operating (hummmm... when else would it fail except when operating? :-s) Yet the 'never PM your timing belt and you will be OK' engines are not dominant in the market today.

You see these things... (I maintain this is another example of how Liebniz was wrong :-d ["this is the best of all possible worlds"])


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## oymd

I think aeroman still has a valid point....

It may not be a design flaw, but its a limitation nevertheless...

I have a CV2010...and my wife the other day changed the date on it...

She had NO idea about this issue, (neither did I) and if what i read on this thread is correct, I think for the movemet to be damaged by such a silly mistake is a weakness...

Luckily it was done in the morning....:-!


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## Eeeb

Oh I'm not saying I like it. I'm just explaining why it is.

Since I've long since learned not to force anything in watches (EXCEPT THE PUSHERS ON 7750's!!) I don't fear breaking it myself.... but I can see how it can be done. Yet I have never heard of it happening in the real world... so maybe it isn't easy.


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## TagDogg

Just get the Chronotimer. No worries!


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## oymd

Eeeb said:


> Oh I'm not saying I like it. I'm just explaining why it is.
> 
> Since I've long since learned not to force anything in watches *(EXCEPT THE PUSHERS ON 7750's!!)* I don't fear breaking it myself.... but I can see how it can be done. Yet I have never heard of it happening in the real world... so maybe it isn't easy.


:thanks

Oh...and i always thought there is something wrong with my CV2010's pushers....

Thanks for that bit of info...so they are known to be hard...:think:

By the way...it seems I can learn a lot here...why do I have CV2010-3 written on my watch...what's the extra "3" mean??

Thanks..


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## Wisconsin Proud

How many of you complainers failed to read your instructions manual? When you spend a couple grand, learn about your product. This has been a known fact about this movement for many years. Failure to learn about this is a defect in your learning ability. Move on if you can't deal with it.


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## Eeeb

Wisconsin Proud said:


> How many of you complainers failed to read your instructions manual? When you spend a couple grand, learn about your product. This has been a known fact about this movement for many years. Failure to learn about this is a defect in your learning ability. Move on if you can't deal with it.


You mean you buy NEW watches that come with instruction manuals?? :-d

I have some obscure Omegas which I couldn't even set until I found the manuals on old-omegas.com


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## TimemindeR

Wisconsin Proud said:


> How many of you complainers failed to read your instructions manual? When you spend a couple grand, learn about your product. This has been a known fact about this movement for many years. Failure to learn about this is a defect in your learning ability. Move on if you can't deal with it.


:-!:-!


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## rage2

oymd said:


> She had NO idea about this issue, (neither did I) and if what i read on this thread is correct, I think for the movemet to be damaged by such a silly mistake is a weakness...
> 
> Luckily it was done in the morning....:-!





Eeeb said:


> Since I've long since learned not to force anything in watches (EXCEPT THE PUSHERS ON 7750's!!) I don't fear breaking it myself.... but I can see how it can be done. Yet I have never heard of it happening in the real world... so maybe it isn't easy.


It's not easy breaking it. The date change gears will catch if you try to change it during the forbidden hours, which realistically is only a 1 hour window. If you force it, then it'll break.

I tried to break it on purpose on an old worn out 7750 a while ago, and you need quite a bit of force to do it.


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## dotti

wow i never know about this before, great info. will be more careful next time i receive an automatic watch. i don't remember reading about this in my calibre 5 manual book, though.


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## Eeeb

rage2 said:


> It's not easy breaking it. The date change gears will catch if you try to change it during the forbidden hours, which realistically is only a 1 hour window. If you force it, then it'll break.
> 
> I tried to break it on purpose on an old worn out 7750 a while ago, and you need quite a bit of force to do it.


Good data. I thought this would be the case but never had an old worn out 7750 to test with. You're a better man than I, Gunga Din :-d


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## Carl.1

Get the Aquagraph..no date, no issues...What's wrong with you people? Can't you remember what day it is?? He he, sorry.:-d


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## c-spe

Wisconsin Proud said:


> On some movements such as the cal 16 (7750) the date wheel is engaged for an extended period of time during the date changeover. This period can start well before 12:00 and end well after 12:00. It does not have an instant clickover like the other ETA calibres. If you change the date manually while the date wheel is engaged with the movement, you may cause damage.
> 
> Just to be safe, I don't change the date of any watch during the midnight hours.


Hi,

I just purchased (yesterday) a brand new Tag Heuer Link Calibre 16 automatic and I have been so excited that I haven't even read the owners manual. I know I'm a idiot for not doing so but please spare me. I was watching the playoffs tonight and it was about 9:30 pm and I changed the date on my new timepiece from 30 to 31. I did so by manually unscrewing the crown and pulling it until it clicked into the first position. Then I waited until 12 am to change the date from 31 to 1 since it's now May 1. However, after multiple unsuccessful attempts at changing the date from 31 to 1, I finally opened the manual to read DO NOT CHANGE THE DATE BETWEEN 8PM AND 4 AM. Now, I am very worried that my negligence could have caused significant damage. Should I be worried? What can I do to observe for the next few days to ensure damage has or has not been done to the brand new time piece? Will Tag Heuer's warranty cover this since the watch is technically newly purchased from a reputable dealer?

Thank you for your expertise. I knew not reading instructions would come bite me on the rear end one day, I just hope its not today.


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## Dave+63

c-spe said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just purchased (yesterday) a brand new Tag Heuer Link Calibre 16 automatic and I have been so excited that I haven't even read the owners manual. I know I'm a idiot for not doing so but please spare me. I was watching the playoffs tonight and it was about 9:30 pm and I changed the date on my new timepiece from 30 to 31. I did so by manually unscrewing the crown and pulling it until it clicked into the first position. Then I waited until 12 am to change the date from 31 to 1 since it's now May 1. However, after multiple unsuccessful attempts at changing the date from 31 to 1, I finally opened the manual to read DO NOT CHANGE THE DATE BETWEEN 8PM AND 4 AM. Now, I am very worried that my negligence could have caused significant damage. Should I be worried? What can I do to observe for the next few days to ensure damage has or has not been done to the brand new time piece? Will Tag Heuer's warranty cover this since the watch is technically newly purchased from a reputable dealer?
> 
> Thank you for your expertise. I knew not reading instructions would come bite me on the rear end one day, I just hope its not today.


The easy way to find out if you've damaged it is to wait until tomorrow. If the date has advanced you're ok. If not, then there could be s problem.

If you have damaged it then TAG are under no obligation to repair it under warranty as it wasn't a manufacturing defect.

I'm not aware of any mechanical watches where it's ok to change the date during the time when the date change function is engaged. That could be any time between 8pm and 4am depending on the movement.

It's not a design flaw, it's a basic principle of mechanics.

To use a motoring analogy, try putting your car in reverse at 50mph and see what happens to the engine. That's not a design flaw either!!


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## Dave+63

Just in case there's anyone stupid enough to try it, DO NOT PUT YOUR CAR INTO REVERSE AT 50mph!!!


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## c-spe

Dave+63 said:


> The easy way to find out if you've damaged it is to wait until tomorrow. If the date has advanced you're ok. If not, then there could be s problem.
> 
> If you have damaged it then TAG are under no obligation to repair it under warranty as it wasn't a manufacturing defect.
> 
> I'm not aware of any mechanical watches where it's ok to change the date during the time when the date change function is engaged. That could be any time between 8pm and 4am depending on the movement.
> 
> It's not a design flaw, it's a basic principle of mechanics.
> 
> To use a motoring analogy, try putting your car in reverse at 50mph and see what happens to the engine. That's not a design flaw either!!


Thanks for the reply Dave. I never said it was a design flaw and nice analogy! What is the cost generally to repair the date function? Also, when should the date change tomorrow if everything is functioning properly? 12 am ballpark? Thanks again for the information.


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## Dave+63

It should change over sometime between 11 and 1 but the best thing is to just go to bed and see if it's changed in the morning. 

If you've not had to use any force and didn't feel anything snap then you're probably ok. 

I'm not saying TAG will not fix it under warranty as they may do do as a goodwill gesture. I hope it doesn't come to that though. 

Dave


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## c-spe

Dave+63 said:


> It should change over sometime between 11 and 1 but the best thing is to just go to bed and see if it's changed in the morning.
> 
> If you've not had to use any force and didn't feel anything snap then you're probably ok.
> 
> I'm not saying TAG will not fix it under warranty as they may do do as a goodwill gesture. I hope it doesn't come to that though.
> 
> Dave


Dave,

Thanks again for the info. I didn't necessarily use force but I did turn the crown 100 times (overstated number but it was somewhere in that ballpark) clockwise and counter clockwise. However, I never felt any form of snap. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best. Thanks again for your .02, it is very helpful.


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## Dave+63

When you were turning the crown was just the date changing or were the hands moving or were you just winding the watch up?

It may be a stupid question but I can't imagine a time when you would turn the crown do many times to adjust the date using the quickset function. 

Dave


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## c-spe

Only the date changed from 30 to 31 then no movement occured after the change took place. I am 99% positive the crown was in the first position the entire time I attepted to change the date. Another member on this forum suggested I try changing the time past 12:00 multiple times to observe the date change multiple days. I noticed the date did indeed change on its own when I passed 12:00 twice (I'm guessing for am then pm). I kept changing the crown pass 12:00 to watch the date change 3x's. Hopefully this makes sense and hopefully due to the results of the date changing 1 day per 2 passes over 12:00 means that I have not caused any noticeable damage to the date mechanism.


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## Dave+63

No, you're ok there. The date change is working properly. 

Cheers

Dave


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## systemcrasher

It's a good habit of getting into changing time first to make sure you are in the safe time zone. You can damage the movement in some calibres (mentioned in previous posts) by changing the date while the watch is stopped in certain times - especially if you repeat making the same mistake.

Strange that you couldn't find it in the manual..


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## thesmeagol

so if i changed the time (2nd position) on my watch during the evil hours, but not the date using the position-1 function thingy, its ok? it still seems to click to the next day if I go forward 24 hours. As long as it keeps rolling over the days at the correct time (within a certain window) I'm good?

also noticed it clicks the day over at like 11:40... but the date at dead-on 12. Is that within the boundaries of acceptable as well? not as if I won't be able to tell what day it is between 11:40 and 12am every night, but you know, it's more awesomer on the dot.

-J


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## Dave+63

You can adjust the time at any time without risk of damage. It's the date change mechanism that engages between 9 and 3 that gets damaged if you try to adjust the date between these times. 

These are mechanical objects and things take time to happen so the day and date will change at slightly different times. It can also vary depending on how the hands have been fitted, a few degrees out will cause the date to flip over at a different time whilst being totally unnoticeable in everyday use.


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## thesmeagol

Dave+63 said:


> You can adjust the time at any time without risk of damage. It's the date change mechanism that engages between 9 and 3 that gets damaged if you try to adjust the date between these times.
> 
> These are mechanical objects and things take time to happen so the day and date will change at slightly different times. It can also vary depending on how the hands have been fitted, a few degrees out will cause the date to flip over at a different time whilst being totally unnoticeable in everyday use.


solid. so glad I didn't screw up my awesome new watch!


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## Ombre Vivante

thesmeagol said:


> so if i changed the time (2nd position) on my watch during the evil hours, but not the date using the position-1 function thingy, its ok? it still seems to click to the next day if I go forward 24 hours. As long as it keeps rolling over the days at the correct time (within a certain window) I'm good?
> 
> also noticed it clicks the day over at like 11:40... but the date at dead-on 12. Is that within the boundaries of acceptable as well? not as if I won't be able to tell what day it is between 11:40 and 12am every night, but you know, it's more awesomer on the dot.
> 
> -J


This is the first I've heard of a quartz watch requiring a date change between specific hours. I knew mechanical watches required it.

I think I damaged the date function in mine. The first thing I did when I got the watch was pull the crown out and run the date and hour functions. I thought I had set the date and time to night, but the hours were actually morning, so that the date was changing every day at noon time. I wasn't paying attention and I changed the date at midnight (hahaha sounds like something outta Gremlins!). Well, I ran the date function and it got stuck! The date would not turn anymore. I then turned the hours function and the date finally clicked. From this day on, though, the date is sometimes slightly off in the little display window. I have to pull the crown out and adjust the date ever so slightly to get the date number centered in the little window. This is a low-end quartz Aquaracer, by the way.

Just tonight, the date did not click after midnight, so it was still saying "27" instead of "28." This Tag watch has been seriously wonky. No other watch has given me so much annoyance!


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## Wisconsin Proud

Ombre Vivante said:


> I wasn't paying attention and I changed the date at midnight ......... No other watch has given me so much annoyance!


Hmmm


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## Ombre Vivante

Hahaha. I know, I know. For whatever reason, it never dawned on me that this also applied to quartz since I've done date changes on other watches before and after midnight and they still work tip top after several years. This Tag clunked out in less than a month! [/lesson learned]


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## Minimalist1972

11 years ago, I bought a quartz watch. I was living in Germany at the time, and the watch was a local brand now defunct; it cost me EUR 250. It came with an alarm feature that copped out after 5 months of regular usage. The time feature, on the other hand, is rock solid: I have never had to adjust the time except when the battery had to be swapped. However, the date feature on the watch was never correct. In the beginning I would correct it periodically, but after a while, I simply gave up on it. It was always either a day ahead or a day behind. 

Thanks to this post, I can now surmise why. I've learned recently that one shouldn't adjust the date between 8pm and 4am, but I had no idea the effect would be permanent! They really need to emphasize this fact in the instruction manual.


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## Dave+63

Minimalist1972 said:


> 11 years ago, I bought a quartz watch. I was living in Germany at the time, and the watch was a local brand now defunct; it cost me EUR 250. It came with an alarm feature that copped out after 5 months of regular usage. The time feature, on the other hand, is rock solid: I have never had to adjust the time except when the battery had to be swapped. However, the date feature on the watch was never correct. In the beginning I would correct it periodically, but after a while, I simply gave up on it. It was always either a day ahead or a day behind.
> 
> Thanks to this post, I can now surmise why. I've learned recently that one shouldn't adjust the date between 8pm and 4am, but I had no idea the effect would be permanent! They really need to emphasize this fact in the instruction manual.


It may be a stupid question but the date isn't changing over at noon is it? If do, the hands want to be adjusted twelve hours forwards or backwards and the date will change at midnight.


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## Ombre Vivante

Yep. That's how I busted my Tag's date function. I fiddled with it at noon time during lunch, but the watch was actually showing midnight!


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## Minimalist1972

Dave+63 said:


> It may be a stupid question but the date isn't changing over at noon is it? If do, the hands want to be adjusted twelve hours forwards or backwards and the date will change at midnight.


Nope, tried it and it's still off. It's always off by a day, either ahead or behind. It's now ahead after following your recommendation. Either it's always been garbage or I messed it up by flipping it at night some years ago. On the other hand, I'm glad I hadn't been a moron the last 11 years. No matter anyway, don't wear it anymore; just use it track the time on my auto.


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## Little Squid

Does this precaution also apply to the non-chrono, Calibre 5, Sellita sw200 movt?


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## Wisconsin Proud

Little Squid said:


> Does this precaution also apply to the non-chrono, Calibre 5, Sellita sw200 movt?


Generally, those have quick change dates - they snap over very quickly and have a much shorter "engagement period" with the gears. However, to be safe, I would treat it like the Calibre 16.


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