# Serious question about current - not future - utility of smart watches



## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

Hi All,

I usually hang out on affordables, so I'm new over here...

I have a serious (not trolling!) question about smart watches and their current utility today (not what they will or may be capable of in the future).

A bit of background first: I'm tech guy. I went down the watch collecting rabbit hole in large because of Hodinkee's review of the Apple Watch which I found from Hacker News. I used to build my own gaming PCs as a kid, I used Linux for several years, I now own two Macs, an iPhone, and an iPad, and I owned and ran a web development firm for a while, too. And yet... I don't know what I would use a smart watch for. 

Not notifications... On my phone, I've long since disabled ALL notifications except calls and texts. I check email on my phone, but rarely. I check Facebook occasionally. Mostly I use my phone for calls and texts, photography, weather, and when I'm traveling, maps, Yelp, and a few other apps. 

Maybe, but probably not fitness tracking... I had a Fitbit for a few years and liked it, but haven't used it in years and see little reason to replace it. I'm not obsessive enough to track my steps and heart rate and such. When I work out, I just... work out. 

Is there anything there for me in the smart watch world? What else is left besides notifications and fitness tracking? I'm curious about the tech, and I'm usually an early adopter, but I don't know what I would do with a smart watch.


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## pr1uk (Sep 25, 2012)

brahman said:


> Hi All,
> Is there anything there for me in the smart watch world? What else is left besides notifications and fitness tracking? I'm curious about the tech, and I'm usually an early adopter, but I don't know what I would do with a smart watch.


Wow for me it is all about notifications i can see no other useful feature if i out glancing at my watch tells me if i have a need to get the iPhone out and replay to messages or they can wait oh and who is calling same thing answer or not, simple.
Fitness tracking if i wanted that i would buy a dedicated band no if you don't want the notifications then i would say do not buy a smartwatch

Peter


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

that's the problem with smart watches...they are nothing more than glorified notification devices.
As they are right now, they are just ugly pieces of tech trying to solve a problem not invented yet.

I did think they would be useful for driving, but I don't even drive much anymore as I telecommute. Forget about the Apple watch being useful on my motorcycle, cant even check the time in sunlight and without taking my hand off the bars and doing that ridiculous flipping motion. At least Pebble you can check time really fast. (also my bike and car already has clocks)

As for notifications, when I'm in my car...great! On my bike...worthless as I can't feel a thing.

I have the Gear S2 by the way, after trying out an Apple watch, Pebble, Moto 360, LG G watch R, Gear fit, Microsoft band and several different fitbits. 

I've gone back to wearing affordable watches while out riding and wear my expensive autos when out. I wear a smartwatch during work....but only because I can keep my phone on a charging dock and still get notifications, other than that. I find carrying both phone and smartwatch redundant.

Of course this has been MY experience, YMMV


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## Prdrers (Oct 28, 2015)

pr1uk said:


> Wow for me it is all about notifications i can see no other useful feature if i out glancing at my watch tells me if i have a need to get the iPhone out and replay to messages or they can wait oh and who is calling same thing answer or not, simple.
> Fitness tracking if i wanted that i would buy a dedicated band no if you don't want the notifications then i would say do not buy a smartwatch
> 
> Peter


I'm along these same lines. I have a Microsoft Band that I wear purely for notifications. In the beginning I tracked my sleep, but am now convinced it's likely inaccurate. I like being able to see who's calling ot texting without taking my phone out of my pocket. If I'm at home, it's nice to just leave my phone in the bedroom without worry of missing a text or call that may/may not be important. It's also helpful that I can use Cortana to return a text without my phone if need be. Just my .02...


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

Long version:
Comparing my AW to the rest of my collection (pic heavy)
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=2699457

Short version:
I use mine so I don't have to tend to my phone all the time.

I've used it for navigation, whether for driving or walking or riding the bus, and it worked. It's weird, trusting the taps on my wrist, but it beats looking like a lost tourist (of which there are plenty in DC).

I responded to some work texts while standing in line at the shops with my wife yesterday. Pretty cool.

I use the timer to remind me when laundry is ready, and I use the alarm (well, multiple alarms) to wake me in the morning.

It's good for doing a laundry list, and it's good for checking the weather as I'm getting dressed.

In a nutshell, most of my basic phone functions, plus a few others, are now handled by the watch. I wear it every day. My automatic watches' date indicators are _weeks_ behind.


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## pr1uk (Sep 25, 2012)

Buhma55c said:


> that's the problem with smart watches...they are nothing more than glorified notification devices.
> As they are right now, they are just ugly pieces of tech trying to solve a problem not invented yet.


Yes notification devices but ugly i don't think the Pebble range are ugly and my main watch the Vector Luna i think looks really nice on my wrist..
I never wanted a smartwatch i had two friends who had them and i was not interested i have a range of watches and would change everyday often twice a day if i was going out i would change my day watch for a gold one etc. Then one of my friends wife bought him an Apple for over £600 so he almost gave me his Pebble Steel unlike the Apple it was a watch and you can see the time without shaking your arm and it's visible in sunlight and battery lasted a whole week. So i set it up and gave it a go well one day my son was coming over for a cheap night in we will do some beers watch his football team then watch a film but he was working nights so he will confirm when he gets up in the afternoon. I was out shopping and thinking he will come over loading up with extra beers then i felt the phone and heard a ding so i knew i had a message. Normally i would change hands dig my phone out open it's leather case then look to see if it was my son say yes it's on or not or wether it's just an unimportant message, but not this day one glance at the watch told me it was a message that could wait so i ignored it till later. From then on i was hooked on notifications and find it so useful and if i get a call i can tell if it needs to be answered or just ignored a great service and i love every bit of it.
So glorified notification device well you could say that but ugly no sorry not all of them are ugly i have a iPhone so like watches that have software for that not into Android of touch screen control so that narrows down the choice to Pebble or Vector and i think my Vector Luna in stainless steel and the same size as my Omega Seamster looks really nice and not at all ugly.

ps
Would my friend go back to the Pebble Steel instead of the Apple well he as admitted to me YES but don't tell his wife

pps
The Vector Luna is my little Member photo so anyone can see it;s not an ugly duckling IMO


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

pr1uk said:


> Yes notification devices but ugly i don't think the Pebble range are ugly and my main watch the Vector Luna i think looks really nice on my wrist..
> I never wanted a smartwatch i had two friends who had them and i was not interested i have a range of watches and would change everyday often twice a day if i was going out i would change my day watch for a gold one etc. Then one of my friends wife bought him an Apple for over £600 so he almost gave me his Pebble Steel unlike the Apple it was a watch and you can see the time without shaking your arm and it's visible in sunlight and battery lasted a whole week. So i set it up and gave it a go well one day my son was coming over for a cheap night in we will do some beers watch his football team then watch a film but he was working nights so he will confirm when he gets up in the afternoon. I was out shopping and thinking he will come over loading up with extra beers then i felt the phone and heard a ding so i knew i had a message. Normally i would change hands dig my phone out open it's leather case then look to see if it was my son say yes it's on or not or wether it's just an unimportant message, but not this day one glance at the watch told me it was a message that could wait so i ignored it till later. From then on i was hooked on notifications and find it so useful and if i get a call i can tell if it needs to be answered or just ignored a great service and i love every bit of it.
> So glorified notification device well you could say that but ugly no sorry not all of them are ugly i have a iPhone so like watches that have software for that not into Android of touch screen control so that narrows down the choice to Pebble or Vector and i think my Vector Luna in stainless steel and the same size as my Omega Seamster looks really nice and not at all ugly.
> 
> ...


I do think smartwatches are ugly, my opinion.

The pebble first gen looks like something from a Crackerjack box (Steel included). The Pebble Time is better but that bezel....
So I gave away the 1st Gen Pebble to a friend.

Moto 360,first gen was just sad looking. the 2nd gen is better...but that FLAT TIRE...just horrid.

LG G Watch R. good effort, but the substandard build quality a no go for me.Android wear was not very reliable...like on the Huwawai (sp?) watch...it froze alot.

Apple watch just looks dorky to me, like a mini iphone strapped to the wrist. Despite Apple marketing, it isn't cool nor high end. And that tiny crown was hard to use while wearing it. I tried out a friends AW...used it in all conditions, indoor, outdoor on my bike...try using the damn thing with motorcycle gloves. At least the Pebble I could see the time and hit the buttons easily with gloves.

Gear S2, I liked it at first, and I still wear it and looks the most like a normal watch, but I don't like how light and cheap it feels. I'll probably give it away like the Pebble. My wife likes the look of it and would like it when she's visiting her patients. She can keep her phone in pocket.

I looked at your Vector watch posts. I'm glad you like it, but that screen resolution looks so 8 bit. I would hate to look at that all the time. Reminds me of an old gameboy resolution. I don't see how you can compare the Vector to your Omega and think it's a good looking watch, but hey as I said beauty is subjective.

None of those watches can compare to my autos in style IMHO. The Tag smartwatch looks nice, but for the price, I'd rather get a good mechanical than a glorified notifier. Then again I may be biased since I'm into the whole retro thing with my cars and bikes.

There is a reason why Harley sells so well compared to modern bikes even tho they haven't updated their bikes since the 1950s....nostalgia and style.


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## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

pr1uk said:


> Wow for me it is all about notifications i can see no other useful feature if i out glancing at my watch tells me if i have a need to get the iPhone out and replay to messages or they can wait oh and who is calling same thing answer or not, simple.
> Fitness tracking if i wanted that i would buy a dedicated band no if you don't want the notifications then i would say do not buy a smartwatch
> 
> Peter


It seems like the consensus is that notifications are the killer app. Which I neither need nor want; I've got my phone set up such that it doesn't intrude on my life and yet is very, very useful. No need for more notifications.


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

brahman said:


> It seems like the consensus is that notifications are the killer app. Which I neither need nor want; I've got my phone set up such that it doesn't intrude on my life and yet is very, very useful. No need for more notifications.


They haven't come up with the killer app yet for smartwatches. Right now its just a new revenue stream Apple and Android are trying to tap into. Wait a few years and see what new versions bring, but for now all they are good for are notifications.


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## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

BarracksSi said:


> Long version:
> Comparing my AW to the rest of my collection (pic heavy)
> Comparing my AW to the rest of my collection (pic heavy)
> 
> ...


Thanks. That was a really informative review you linked to.

I don't feel like I have to tend to my phone all the time, so that benefit is moot. The first couple of years I had an iPhone it was pretty distracting, especially compared to my Blackberries of old, but now I've got my apps and notifications managed such that I feel like my phone serves me, not the other way around.

I don't use countdown timers much, so I probably wouldn't need that... And my phone is my alarm - it charges on my bedside table anyway - so I don't need a second source of alarms.

I _can_ see myself using navigation and weather apps. But again, I'm happy with the way my phone performs here, too.

It sounds like smart watches don't offer much for users like me... not yet, anyway.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

brahman said:


> It seems like the consensus is that notifications are the killer app. Which I neither need nor want; I've got my phone set up such that it doesn't intrude on my life and yet is very, very useful. No need for more notifications.


I won't say "more", but instead "deferred" notifications. I even turned my phone's vibrations off. The only notifications I send to the watch are phone calls, texts, work emails, and emails from my "VIP" list (family, a couple friends, and specific coworkers). Most everything else stays on the phone.

It's the most useful at times when I don't have the phone in hand, too. When I'm having breakfast by myself in the work cafeteria, I'm reading stuff on my phone, so the watch hardly gets used; but, when I'm sitting with a group at lunch, I talk with my fiends and keep the phone in my pocket because I don't need to leave it on the table just to see short text replies like "Got it" and stuff like that.

Anyway, as they say, the watch is just an extension of the phone, not a replacement.


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## pr1uk (Sep 25, 2012)

Buhma55c said:


> I looked at your Vector watch posts. I'm glad you like it, but that screen resolution looks so 8 bit. I would hate to look at that all the time. Reminds me of an old gameboy resolution. I don't see how you can compare the Vector to your Omega and think it's a good looking watch, but hey as I said beauty is subjective.


"i think my Vector Luna in stainless steel and the same size as my Omega Seamster looks really nice and not at all ugly"
In fairness i compared the Vector in size to my Omega not in looks they are different watches the Vector is a smartwatch and i still think for such a watch the display is OK and it as a 30 day battery life not found in any other model not even Pebble.

Peter


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

Personally, I find people I'm talking to who checks his/her wrist just as rude as if they continually checked their phones. Sometimes even more so since I don't know if they are checking a message or just in a hurry. I would rather they check their phones than give the "hurry up" body language.

I think it's so distracting that I have now started to ignore the little buzzes on my wrist when I'm in company. It wouldn't look good to my clients if I was continuously checking my watch. Maybe if we get smart contacts one day ha!










As of now, I kinda see smartwatches like those bluetooth earphones or hip holsters. People loved them back in the day....but how goofy do those people look now?


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## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

BarracksSi said:


> I won't say "more", but instead "deferred" notifications.


Interesting. The value proposition makes more sense when you put it that way.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

brahman said:


> Interesting. The value proposition makes more sense when you put it that way.


Yeah, it's strange how it worked out. Although my posts make it seem like my watch does a lot of things, the time spent on each is very small -- one to five seconds, really. Totally different usage than what you'd do with a larger device. Using it works best in short glances. It's kind of like checking the date on your regular watch except it happens to be the hockey score.


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

BarracksSi said:


> Yeah, it's strange how it worked out. Although my posts make it seem like my watch does a lot of things, the time spent on each is very small -- one to five seconds, really. Totally different usage than what you'd do with a larger device. Using it works best in short glances. It's kind of like checking the date on your regular watch except it happens to be the hockey score.


So basically you are spending upwards of $500-$17,000 for a notification device when a $100 fitbit or Pebble does that. I'm no stranger to spending too much money but I'd rather have something useful to show for it.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

Buhma55c said:


> So basically you are spending upwards of $500-$17,000 for a notification device when a $100 fitbit or Pebble does that. I'm no stranger to spending too much money but I'd rather have something useful to show for it.


Except that a Fitbit or Pebble can't do anything with those notifications.

I'll use the inept secretary metaphor again:
"Sir, you have a message."
-"Thanks. Who's it from?"
"I can't tell you, sir."
-"&#8230; Then why are you telling me?"
"It's all I know how to do, sir."
-"Okay. Can you call whoever it is back and tell them I'll call them later?"
"No sir."
-"Then why the F did I hire you?"


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

neither can the Apple watch. I bet I can pull out my iphone and fire off a reply faster than you can on an apple watch. Did you just write your post on your Apple watch? With all the capitalizations and punctuations? No?


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

As for phone calls, again I repeat, we all laugh at those dinosaurs still using bluetooth headesets in public...how is talking to your watch any better?


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

Until you can write full posts just on your Apple watch (all the time-not just canned messages) your point for the utility for the Apple Watch being able to "do more" is moot.Besides I have an Gear S2 so I can reply to messages if I choose with more than a canned message.

Lookie here three posts within a minute...try that with your Apple watch.


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## pr1uk (Sep 25, 2012)

Buhma55c said:


> Until you can write full posts just on your Apple watch (all the time-not just canned messages) your point for the utility for the Apple Watch being able to "do more" is moot.Besides I have an Gear S2 so I can reply to messages if I choose with more than a canned message.
> 
> Lookie here three posts within a minute...try that with your Apple watch.


I take it you will not be buying an Apple soon then shame the secondhand market is growing and they are getting cheaper


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

BarracksSi said:


> Except that a Fitbit or Pebble can't do anything with those notifications.
> 
> I'll use the inept secretary metaphor again:
> "Sir, you have a message."
> ...


yeah it was an inept metaphor

"sir sir sir incoming email"

"sir sir sir incoming spam"

"sir sir sir incoming snapchat"

"Dammit! Can't you see I'm in a meeting?"

"No sir, you didn't shut my mouth"

"Dammit ok, here let me interrupt my meeting to shut your mouth...there."

"Oh by the way...take a dictation. I will be there at 9:30 am. Repeat that."

"I will bee dur at Nine Colon thirty aim"

"Never mind I'll do it myself! Why did the F did I hire you? You can't even type 60 words per minute!"


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

pr1uk said:


> I take it you will not be buying an Apple soon then shame the secondhand market is growing and they are getting cheaper


Maybe version 2 in all honesty. I try out all smartwatches to find one that actually works for me.


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## pr1uk (Sep 25, 2012)

Buhma55c said:


> Maybe version 2 in all honesty. I try out all smartwatches to find one that actually works for me.


The same one my friends wife paid £599 for is now going for £450 I have to admit i am an Apple man but until they make a model with 24 hour watch display and a battery that last at least a week i will not be saving my pennies up. Not sure i will live long enough to see that model released 
Good job we all like different things it would be a sad world over wise


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

The OP asked for opinions on the real utility for smartwatches, and in my opinion, they are just notifiers right now
If you want to reply and take calls on your wrist then there are plenty of other cheap smartwatches that do that for under $60. 

Until these watches can actually do things like see full emails with attachements and be able to reply fully, without taking more time than whipping out my phone, then he should wait for the next versions.


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

pr1uk said:


> The same one my friends wife paid £599 for is now going for £450 I have to admit i am an Apple man but until they make a model with 24 hour watch display and a battery that last at least a week i will not be saving my pennies up. Not sure i will live long enough to see that model released
> Good job we all like different things it would be a sad world over wise


I think you found something that works for you. Long battery life and notifications, the price was great too. My Gear S2 has about 2 days charge with real world useage....about a day and a half with always on mode. Nowhere near the Vector.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

Buhma55c said:


> Until these watches can actually do things like see full emails with attachements and be able to reply fully, without taking more time than whipping out my phone, then he should wait for the next versions.


He'll be waiting a long time, because I don't believe a tiny device is very good for so much work.

I also don't believe a phone is very good for running a recording mixer or doing Photoshop. It could, based on its processing power, but it's just too small.

I'm under no delusions that a watch -- no matter the brand or OS -- will ever be a full replacement for a phone. I'm not going to try to dictate a calendar entry for a dental appointment while I'm standing at the reception desk.

But it sure does some things more conveniently than a phone.


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

BarracksSi said:


> He'll be waiting a long time, because I don't believe a tiny device is very good for so much work.
> 
> I also don't believe a phone is very good for running a recording mixer or doing Photoshop. It could, based on its processing power, but it's just too small.
> 
> ...


Thanks for making my point  
smartwatches are glorified notifiers. If you don't need or want constant notifications (like the OP) what other utility is there for a smartwatch?


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## HerrNano (Apr 29, 2015)

Smartwatches are extensions of a phone. And a smartphone is already fairly difficult to work on as compared to a desktop computer or a laptop, but it is the compromise we have made in order to carry it in a pocket. With that said, any time you do more than glance at a smartwatch, you have destroyed the utility. You might as well have just taken out your phone. Smartwatches shine when they convey passive, lightly actionable information 'at a glance' on your wrist. Reminders, texts, weather, maybe even the time, all fit on the wrist and belong there, but the moment you think it makes sense to peck out a message on your wrist or visit Crazytown by talking to your watch in public, it's over. 

The real problem, IMO, is that smartwatch makers are in an arms race of functionality trying to cram little recipe apps and coffee house locators into the things when that capability belongs on your phone (if you really think you need that crap anyway). A simple vibration to tell you someone is reaching out, glance, decide if it is appropriate right now, and proceed. No chime, take out phone, struggle with what you are carrying, unlock, squint, scroll, tap, cuss, etc. Smartwatches have their place, but users need to figure out what actually works and what is just fluff.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

It probably helps to either use one of your own or to see someone use theirs. pr1uk has talked about being given one (a Pebble, right?) and finding out he enjoyed at least the principle of a smartwatch.

One trick I showed a coworker while we were hanging out was raising my wrist, saying, "Hey Siri, tell Ralph I'll see you at Starbucks in five minutes," then putting down my wrist. He looked at me, said, is it that easy?, and then his phone got my text. (which read, "I'll see you at Starbucks in five minutes.")

Sometimes I get a group text during lunch. Three taps on the watch and I've replied with an "Ok". Another person in the group, who happens to be sitting with me, sees my reply and goes, "Wait, how'd you do that?"


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## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

Buhma55c said:


> As for phone calls, again I repeat, we all laugh at those dinosaurs still using bluetooth headesets in public...how is talking to your watch any better?


And yet no one bats an eye when someone walking down the street alone speaking into a little black box. That would have seemed literally insane 30 yeas ago. Who's to say what the next few years will bring. predicting which technological developments will be dead ends and which will be revolutionary is tough.

That said, I agree that Apple watches and smart watches don't sound particularly useful to me at this point.


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## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

BarracksSi said:


> He'll be waiting a long time, because I don't believe a tiny device is very good for so much work.


I probably will be waiting a long time before getting a smart watch. It sounds like they're just not where I need them to be to consider a purchase. I don't want to add more digital devices to my life unless they're overwhelming likely to make a positive impact on my day to day existence. Too much overhead. And I like that my watches - even the mechanicals - just don't require much effort on my part to manage.

I would like to take an Apple watch for a test drive some day, though. And there are a few capabilities that might not be too far off that could get me to reconsider and actually buy one.

Most Important: 
- MUCH longer battery life. Either a month+ of between recharges or better yet solar powered.
- Better water resistance. I know some brave souls swim with their Apple watches, but I want 100m+ rating from the manufacturer.

Would Be Cool:
- GPS & compass independent of a cell phone. Street maps, topo maps, lat/long, and loadable GPX tracks.
- Texts & calls independent of a cell phone. If Stephen Hawking can compose scientific monographs with basically one button, why can't we write emails on a watch?
- Video out port.
- Bluetooth keyboard/mouse support.

A lot of that stuff sounded impossible with cellphones not that long ago, and look where we are now...


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## garublador (Feb 17, 2014)

I think people currently underestimate how useful the voice command can, or will be. Notifications are nice, but giving quick voice commands like adding reminders or adding stuff to a to do list without fishing out your phone is also convenient. I periodically find myself wondering if a store or restaurant is open when I'm out and about and being able to get that information without getting my phone out, especially in the car, would be nice. Just like with notifications, having a watch that will do that is only as useful as you find those features. If you don't do any of that stuff with your phone now, then adding a watch that does it won't do any good. 

If you use Android, there's currently a ton of automation you can control using voice commands and an Android Wear or Pebble watch...assuming you're willing to put the work in to make it all work. There's an app called Tasker that allows you to control a ton of stuff on or with your phone and it can interface with some home automation systems and smart watches. So if you set one of these compatible systems up you can make custom voice commands to control stuff in your house and then send those commands through your watch rather than your phone. There is also some inter device communication options where you can monitor stuff like battery levels of other devices. So you cold have a watch face that shows the battery life of your phone and tablet. There's a plug in for Chromecast as well, so you'd be able to control it to the point of making custom screens and controlling them using voice commands (so there's your video out port  ).

So, rambling aside, my point is that people tend to think of a smart watch as just a way for your phone to send information to you, but it's also a way for you to send information to your phone if you don't need the display. It's also that many don't realize just how much you can control using voice commands. Again, if you personally don't use any of this stuff then it won't make a smart watch any more useful to you, but they can be used for a lot more than just wrist mounted notifications.


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## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

That makes perfect sense. 

I was already thinking control of home automation could be one of the killer features of a smart watch, once it's more widespread. 

If voice commands worked well, I could imagine that being very useful as well. 

I've been pretty underwhelmed with voice control so far, though. Haven't tried Android's implementation, but with Siri I usually start out speaking like a normal person, then enunciating like a stern parent scolding a toddler, and then shouting at the damn robot, and finally just giving up. And there's too much back and forth to get anything done. Too many confirmations just to send a text -- and that's if Siri understands my message in the first place. 




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## pr1uk (Sep 25, 2012)

I have to admit even trying many times i have never got Siri to work 100% and it's always turned off and to me anyway viewed as a useless toy that is as useful to me as turning on voice control on my laptop.

Peter


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## garublador (Feb 17, 2014)

brahman said:


> I've been pretty underwhelmed with voice control so far, though. Haven't tried Android's implementation, but with Siri I usually start out speaking like a normal person, then enunciating like a stern parent scolding a toddler, and then shouting at the damn robot, and finally just giving up. And there's too much back and forth to get anything done. Too many confirmations just to send a text -- and that's if Siri understands my message in the first place.


My wife uses iOS and I use Android. My experience is that Google Now works great sometimes, but then about 20% of the time it won't understand what you want to say no matter what. Most of my voice commands are custom, so I only get the back and forth that I want. Google Now seems to be better at finding what you want on the web and parsing out the useful information. Siri does a better job of doing stuff on your phone. They seemed to have really overthought Siri.


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## vanilla.coffee (Feb 27, 2011)

pr1uk said:


> I have to admit even trying many times i have never got Siri to work 100% and it's always turned off and to me anyway viewed as a useless toy that is as useful to me as turning on voice control on my laptop.
> 
> Peter


My wife's new Opel Astra has Apple CarPlay. Siri is massively useful as all functions to play a particular track, album or playlist, select a podcast - get nav directions - voice dial, construct or reply to texts etc all with your voice is brilliant.


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## scentedlead (May 11, 2015)

BarracksSi said:


> Except that a Fitbit or Pebble can't do anything with those notifications.
> 
> I'll use the inept secretary metaphor again:
> "Sir, you have a message."
> ...





Buhma55c said:


> yeah it was an inept metaphor
> 
> "sir sir sir incoming email"
> 
> ...


I'd say BarracksSi's metaphor is relevant.

Watch: You have a message.
Me: Pulls out phone.
Watch: You have another message.
Me: Pulls out phone again.
Watch: You have yet another message.
Me: Pulls out phone yet again.
Watch: And another message.
Me: Pulls out phone and yet again.

Watch: Cousin: What are we doing for New Year's Eve?
Me: Pulls out phone to have long convo.
Watch: Parents: can you pick up the dim sum for my mahjong party tonight?
Me (on watch): Okay.
Watch: Cousin: am stuck at work, can you pick up my kid from school?
Me (on watch, with Siri): sure will be there at 4.
Watch: spam SMS.
Me (on watch): (dismiss).

iPhone Killer: The Secret History of the Apple Watch



> Lynch is leaning forward in his chair, telling me about his kids: about how grateful he is to be able to simply glance at his Watch, realize that the latest text message isn't immediately important, and then go right back to family time; about how that doesn't feel disruptive to him-or them.
> 
> A moment later, he stands up. He has to leave; he owes Dye and Ive an update on something important. In all the time we've been talking, he's never once looked at his phone.


Even if all your watch does is notifications, then that's the value of the watch-being able to decide when to pick up your phone.

The only notifications I allow are for phone calls and text messages-everything else can wait (mostly because I am very selective as to who gets my phone number). As for the disruptions, the only sounds I allow are my alarms. Every other notification is done through taps.

Also, I am capable of assessing the situation to determine whether it would be gauche or not to look at my watch. Surprisingly, some people already have social skills. And the great thing about smartwatches is that, if they buzz or vibrate, the other person never has to know.



Buhma55c said:


> neither can the Apple watch. I bet I can pull out my iphone and fire off a reply faster than you can on an apple watch. Did you just write your post on your Apple watch? With all the capitalizations and punctuations? No?





Buhma55c said:


> Until you can write full posts just on your Apple watch (all the time-not just canned messages) your point for the utility for the Apple Watch being able to "do more" is moot.Besides I have an Gear S2 so I can reply to messages if I choose with more than a canned message.
> 
> Lookie here three posts within a minute...try that with your Apple watch.





Buhma55c said:


> Until these watches can actually do things like see full emails with attachements and be able to reply fully, without taking more time than whipping out my phone, then he should wait for the next versions.





BarracksSi said:


> He'll be waiting a long time, because I don't believe a tiny device is very good for so much work.
> 
> I also don't believe a phone is very good for running a recording mixer or doing Photoshop. It could, based on its processing power, but it's just too small.
> 
> ...





Buhma55c said:


> Thanks for making my point
> smartwatches are glorified notifiers. If you don't need or want constant notifications (like the OP) what other utility is there for a smartwatch?


What does your watch do?

It gives you the time at a glance.
It gives you the the date at a glance.
It gives you the day of week at a glance.
It gives you the moon phase at a glance.
It gives you sunrise/sunset at a glance.
It gives you the tide at a glance.
It gives you North at a glance.
It gives you atmospheric pressure at a glance.
It gives you altitude at a glance.
If you have a Van Cleef & Arpels Midnight Planétarium, then your watch does almost none of the above but, it gives you the position of the planets at a glance.

Notice the common thread here-at a glance.

Likewise, the smartwatch will be best at things that can be done in a glance.

In addition to doing the top 5 in that above list (all in just one face), I can also: see how many miles before my next exit (a godsend when the phone is in the glove compartment because that's where the phone-to-audio hookups are); check if my lunch order is ready for pickup; check if my prescription is ready for pickup; mount my phone on a tripod or selfie stick and then view and snap the pic; and play the next episode from my couch without walking to my phone hooked up to my TV.

(Tangent: What does your fitness wearable do? It tracks your movement. Thanks to the AW, I don't need to buy a Fitbit.)



brahman said:


> Most Important:
> - MUCH longer battery life. Either a month+ of between recharges or better yet solar powered.
> - Better water resistance. I know some brave souls swim with their Apple watches, but I want 100m+ rating from the manufacturer.
> 
> ...


I know everyone wants gps and cellular radios in their watches, but the compromise is a larger case size _and_ reduced battery life. And even if your watch had no radios, a better battery life also means increasing the case size. Larger than 45mm and that alienates too much of the general population from considering the product.

A watch is not a cell phone, it's just that much smaller. Not saying that miniaturization will never happen but realize how much more of an obstacle watches are compared to cell phones.

Lastly, an AW battery goes from 0% to 100% in less than two hours. For most people, charging smartwatch is no more a chore than charging a smartphone. As long as it lasts the day, it's fine, right?

Video out? I don't ever remember wanting to hook up my watch to my TV. My phone? sure. My watch? never.

Bluetooth keyboard/mouse support? Checking my lunch order on my watch? Sure. Placing a lunch order on my watch? Nope. I don't know why I would when looking at a menu is so much more pleasant on a phone, or tablet, or computer. Also, I don't ever remember being in the middle of a busy sidewalk, looking at my watch, and thinking, "I wish I could *take out a keyboard* for this thing." And truth be told, I've never thought about getting a keyboard for my AW ever.

As people have pointed out, if you want your watch to replace your phone, you'll be sorely disappointed-just use a cell phone if that's what you really want. But if you use your smartwatch as a glancable thing-and there are apps for the tasks you want done-then a smartwatch is a great value.



vanilla.coffee said:


> My wife's new Opel Astra has Apple CarPlay. Siri is massively useful as all functions to play a particular track, album or playlist, select a podcast - get nav directions - voice dial, construct or reply to texts etc all with your voice is brilliant.


Siri is great! Except with names and most of what I want to do with Siri on my watch has to do with Maps, and that means dealing with place names. It actually does well with San Francisco names-Geary gets heard as Gary but gets corrected to Geary, so long as I specify San Francisco. But outside the city? It's horrible with street names, even when I specify the city. That's okay, I just type in the address into my phone, and then use the watch to check for upcoming exits.


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## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

> Lynch is leaning forward in his chair, telling me about his kids: about how grateful he is to be able to simply glance at his Watch, realize that the latest text message isn't immediately important, and then go right back to family time; about how that doesn't feel disruptive to him-or them.
> 
> A moment later, he stands up. He has to leave; he owes Dye and Ive an update on something important. In all the time we've been talking, he's never once looked at his phone.


 In my opinion this guy has already failed to successfully manage his digital devices in a way that enhances, rather than detracts from, his daily life. If he's in interview, he shouldn't be checking email. If he's playing with his kids, he shouldn't be checking email. If he's not a fireman or doctor or someone who is actually on call, he shouldn't need to check or respond to work calls/texts/emails outside of work. And if he truly does have to - like he'll be fired if he doesn't - than he's failed to achieve work-life balance.



scentedlead said:


> Notice the common thread here-at a glance.
> 
> Likewise, the smartwatch will be best at things that can be done in a glance.


Granted. But there just aren't many things I need at a glance, other than time. Weather, maybe... Directions, maybe... Texts, not so much, since most of my texting is in bursts of 3-5 back and forth messages followed by an hour or more of no texts. Email, definitely not. Unless I'm working I check email in the morning and the evening and that's about it. Calls, no. I put my phone on silent when I don't want to receive calls.



scentedlead said:


> Lastly, an AW battery goes from 0% to 100% in less than two hours. For most people, charging smartwatch is no more a chore than charging a smartphone. As long as it lasts the day, it's fine, right?


Going from my old Nokia that needed charging once a week to a smart phone that needed charging every night was a big hassle, but worth it. Charging both an iPhone and an iPad every day is a hassle, and I'm not sure it's worth it. My tablet is more of a time waster and preventer-of-reading-actual-books than anything else. Definitely don't want to add yet another device that needs nightly charging unless it's a really big win for me.



scentedlead said:


> Video out? I don't ever remember wanting to hook up my watch to my TV. My phone? sure. My watch? never.
> 
> Bluetooth keyboard/mouse support? Checking my lunch order on my watch? Sure. Placing a lunch order on my watch? Nope. I don't know why I would when looking at a menu is so much more pleasant on a phone, or tablet, or computer. Also, I don't ever remember being in the middle of a busy sidewalk, looking at my watch, and thinking, "I wish I could *take out a keyboard* for this thing." And truth be told, I've never thought about getting a keyboard for my AW ever.


Ok, ok. So that stuff sounds irrelevant, granted. But hear me out. 

Laptops reached near-parity with desktops years ago in terms of capability. Many, many people don't use desktops anymore and haven't in years. 
Tablets are closing in on desktops. The memory, storage, and clock speed aren't there yet, but what's really holding them back from most day-to-day work is an inability to run all of the specialized software (other than just email, web browser, and word processor) that so many people need for their work. 
Phones are close behind tablets. Pair a Bluetooth keyboard and maybe hook up an external screen, and you can get quite a lot done (except of course for all those tasks that require specialized software). 
Smart watches *might* be the next digital device to eat their way up the food chain. 

So, following this train of thought through to its conclusion:

Phones could easily replace tablets, laptops, and desktops once they a) get powerful enough, b) have more robust operating systems, and c) are paired with external screens and keyboards. We're not that far off. 
In the somewhat more distant future, watches could do all of that. 

Maybe it sounds like science fiction now, but it seems totally plausible in the years-to-decades timeframe. Hence my great interest in smart watches despite my negative sounding assessment of them.


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## scentedlead (May 11, 2015)

brahman said:


> In my opinion this guy has already failed to successfully manage his digital devices in a way that enhances, rather than detracts from, his daily life. If he's in interview, he shouldn't be checking email. If he's playing with his kids, he shouldn't be checking email. If he's not a fireman or doctor or someone who is actually on call, he shouldn't need to check or respond to work calls/texts/emails outside of work. And if he truly does have to - like he'll be fired if he doesn't - than he's failed to achieve work-life balance.


In this age of international business where every time zone is your local time zone, having blackout blocks from messages is not an option. At one job I worked at, a team got called into the office in the middle of the night because of events in India. Sunday 3 p.m. in San Francisco is Monday 8 a.m. in Tokyo.

How do you know if that midnight message you get is from your kid asking for a slumber party extension into the late afternoon; or your kid stranded because the train broke down; or a boss nagging you about font sizes in a memo; or the boss panicking because an event in China is going to cost the company billions?



> Granted. But there just aren't many things I need at a glance, other than time. Weather, maybe... Directions, maybe... Texts, not so much, since most of my texting is in bursts of 3-5 back and forth messages followed by an hour or more of no texts. Email, definitely not. Unless I'm working I check email in the morning and the evening and that's about it. Calls, no. I put my phone on silent when I don't want to receive calls.


But that's where the value lies in a watch-fitness tracking and glance-able tasks. If you don't have any tasks that are glance-able, or if you do but the apps aren't there, then there's no value for you in a smartwatch. And that's okay, but more on that later.

But not knowing what to do with the thing is where smartphones were a decade ago-a computer does everything a smartphone does, so why bother with a smartphone, right? Turns out, some tasks are better done in a smaller form factor. I don't think anyone would argue that hailing a taxi is more useful on a phone than on a computer-but that's just one of many things people couldn't imagine a smartphone doing a decade ago.

In due time, people are going to figure out what smartwatches are good for. I've already identified a number of tasks I like doing on my watch. Eventually, people will figure out more tasks that can be done on a watch and more people will find it useful. But it's going to be different for everyone because everyone's needs are different-but the great thing about a computer is that you can customize it to what you need done.



> Going from my old Nokia that needed charging once a week to a smart phone that needed charging every night was a big hassle, but worth it. Charging both an iPhone and an iPad every day is a hassle, and I'm not sure it's worth it. My tablet is more of a time waster and preventer-of-reading-actual-books than anything else. Definitely don't want to add yet another device that needs nightly charging unless it's a really big win for me.


My cell phone is my morning alarm. While I have USB ports there, might as well charge my tablet and watch there too. And I read more on my iPad mini-being able to change colors and font sizes are an accessibility boon.



> Ok, ok. So that stuff sounds irrelevant, granted. But hear me out.
> 
> Laptops reached near-parity with desktops years ago in terms of capability. Many, many people don't use desktops anymore and haven't in years.
> Tablets are closing in on desktops. The memory, storage, and clock speed aren't there yet, but what's really holding them back from most day-to-day work is an inability to run all of the specialized software (other than just email, web browser, and word processor) that so many people need for their work.
> ...


But the reason why laptops have reached near parity with desktops is because the miniaturization used in desktops transferred over to laptops and vice versa. What is an iMac now? It's a screen with a thin computer behind it. What's a laptop? It's a screen with a thin computer below it. So why use desktops?

The Grand Unified Theory of Apple Products

The Inside Story of Apple's New iMacs



> Schiller, in fact, has a grand philosophical theory of the Apple product line that puts all products on a continuum. Ideally, you should be using the smallest possible gadget to do as much as possible before going to the next largest gizmo in line.


Nothing is replacing anything; nothing should replace anything. The smaller device will be more portable; the larger device will be more powerful. Of course there are going to be overlaps. But this is how it should be to give the user the most flexibility. The product line should be designed so that, with _easier data transferring_ between devices, individual devices complement each other-and the customers pick and choose which form factors make the most sense for their lifestyles. A product line designed for flexibility and individuality is why it's okay to choose some of the line's products and not others. Someone could have a desktop, laptop, smartphone; another person a watch, phone, and tablet; and another person, desktop, smartphone, and smartwatch; a desktop only is okay; and a smartphone only is also okay.

If I wanna mull over an email on the bus, all I need is a phone to display it. I might even send a short reply on my phone. But if I want to write a lengthy response, sitting down at a table with a tablet or computer would be better for that-I could do it with a phone if a situation really presses me. But if the situation doesn't press me, then why use the phone? when comfort is of the essence?

If I'm in front of my TV and want to skip to the next episode on my playlist, my watch is perfect for that. But if I wanna plan a playlist-do I want to watch _Supernatural_ before or after watching _The Flash_ and _Arrow?_-I'm pulling out a tablet or sitting down at a computer for that. They might do each other's tasks but again, comfort and convenience is of the essence. I'd rather not walk to my computer just to skip the ending credits of an episode and I'd rather not re-arrange long lists of episodes on a tiny little watch.

I don't deny that increased power will mean increased productivity. But you have to interface with a device in a way that is natural for its form.

What will it take for me to ditch my bluetooth keyboard and stop pretending my tablet plus its keyboard case are a laptop? Last year, Apple released one half of the solution to my problem-the Pencil-and the other half (am still waiting for it) is handwriting recognition, complete with recognition for cursive and editing symbols. I hate carrying a keyboard; why can't I just carry a tablet and a stylus like I carry a notebook and a pen? Once the tablet stops pretending to be half a laptop, and embraces being more like a writing/drawing pad, I'm going to be both more comfortable and more productive.

Likewise, I don't care about keyboard input for smartwatches. The energy put into designing portable yet still usable-without feeling cramped-keyboards is energy better spent improving voice input.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

brahman said:


> In my opinion this guy has already failed to successfully manage his digital devices in a way that enhances, rather than detracts from, his daily life.


"This guy" was one of the heads at Adobe and was brought to Apple in 2013 to work on the Apple Watch.

I'm pretty sure he has to be tightly connected to his job. If the watch means someone like him can afford to put his phone aside, I'd say it does its job brilliantly.

[adding for clarity]
"This guy" is Kevin Lynch, formerly CTO at Adobe; he answers to Apple bigwigs Jony Ive and Alan Dye (head of the UI group).


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## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

scentedlead said:


> In this age of international business where every time zone is your local time zone, having blackout blocks from messages is not an option. At one job I worked at, a team got called into the office in the middle of the night because of events in India. Sunday 3 p.m. in San Francisco is Monday 8 a.m. in Tokyo


You most definitely *can* have "blackout blocks". Do you sleep? Blackout block. Do you answer messages while showering, on the toilet, or mid-coitus? No? Then those, too, are blackout blocks.

Of course there are always going to be times when you need to work at odd hours for one reason or another. A conference call, a disaster, a major push at the end of a project... I had a fieldwork job once for which I routinely had to start my day at 1 am, hike through the dark among scorpions and rattlesnakes to take resting photosynthesis measurements of plants, hike back at dawn to nap and eat breakfast, and then work my regular 8 hour day in the field in 100+ degree heat. And I loved it.

On the other hand, my colleagues in India are almost 12 hours out of phase with me. Do they answer my emails during my workday which is their night? No. Do I do the converse for them? No. And it works fine. Once in a while, we have to make concessions and answer messages at odd hours, but business as usual is just typical workday hours on both sides of the world.



> But that's where the value lies in a watch-fitness tracking and glance-able tasks. If you don't have any tasks that are glance-able, or if you do but the apps aren't there, then there's no value for you in a smartwatch. And that's okay, but more on that later.


That's exactly why I started this thread: to see what people use smartphones for and if those things would be useful for me. I'm learning that the answer is: not much for me - yet.



> But not knowing what to do with the thing is where smartphones were a decade ago-a computer does everything a smartphone does, so why bother with a smartphone, right? Turns out, some tasks are better done in a smaller form factor. I don't think anyone would argue that hailing a taxi is more useful on a phone than on a computer-but that's just one of many things people couldn't imagine a smartphone doing a decade ago.
> 
> In due time, people are going to figure out what smartwatches are good for. I've already identified a number of tasks I like doing on my watch. Eventually, people will figure out more tasks that can be done on a watch and more people will find it useful. But it's going to be different for everyone because everyone's needs are different-but the great thing about a computer is that you can customize it to what you need done.


Exactly. It sounds like we don't yet have a killer app for smart watches yet. No doubt we one day will. In the meantime, smart watches sound more useful to people who have different lifestyles than my own.



> But the reason why laptops have reached near parity with desktops is because the miniaturization used in desktops transferred over to laptops and vice versa.


Exactly my point! Miniaturization, Moore's law, etc. mean that as time goes by we can accomplish more with smaller devices.



> Nothing is replacing anything; nothing should replace anything.


Ah, but things do replace other things! (I'll leave Hume's guillotine out of it and not address whether or not they _should_.)

A lot of people I know don't use desktops at home or at work. They use laptops all the time. At work, they plug their laptop into a keyboard and monitor. I did just that for the last 14 years. So for these people, laptops _have_ replaced desktops.

This is what I mean by keyboard and monitor. Not that you carry them around with you; rather, that you can attach your device into them at your desk at work. But I think we were just talking past one another with the whole video out, keyboard in subject. I was mostly just reflecting on the trajectory of technological development. That smaller devices at first seem like novelties, or tools for a tiny niche of users, or toys for rich nerds. (Think: laptops in the early 1990s.) And later on, they become more powerful, more useful, and less costly. And pretty soon people do real work on them. And they become integrated into the fabric of our lives.

So no, I'm not married to the idea of dockable smart watches. That's just one speculative trajectory that smart watches could follow.

Anyway, to some up my feelings about smart watches, I think they're currently in the development phase where most people see them as novelties, niche tools, or expensive toys. But I'm not naive enough to imagine that's where the story ends. One way or another, smart watches will become more powerful and useful and more integrated into our lives. I'm very curious to see how it unfolds.


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## garublador (Feb 17, 2014)

brahman said:


> In my opinion this guy has already failed to successfully manage his digital devices in a way that enhances, rather than detracts from, his daily life. If he's in interview, he shouldn't be checking email. If he's playing with his kids, he shouldn't be checking email. If he's not a fireman or doctor or someone who is actually on call, he shouldn't need to check or respond to work calls/texts/emails outside of work. And if he truly does have to - like he'll be fired if he doesn't - than he's failed to achieve work-life balance.


I'm probably a special case, but I think the notifications would be more useful while I'm at work than at home. With my job I'm not always at my desk so getting emails and calendar notifications on my phone is super nice. Having access to them on my wrist would be a bit more convenient, especially so I don't have to stop what I'm doing just to see that I got some spam.



> Weather, maybe... Directions, maybe... Texts, not so much,


Spoken like a true Iowan. Checking weather: useful. Interacting with others, not useful.


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## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

garublador said:


> I'm probably a special case, but I think the notifications would be more useful while I'm at work than at home. With my job I'm not always at my desk so getting emails and calendar notifications on my phone is super nice. Having access to them on my wrist would be a bit more convenient, especially so I don't have to stop what I'm doing just to see that I got some spam.


I agree. I can more easily see myself using a smart watch at work than at home.



> Spoken like a true Iowan. Checking weather: useful. Interacting with others, not useful.


Hahaha! Touché :-!

It's more that I tend to get in full blown text conversations rather than the quick one-off questions/replies other people here are talking about. A lot of my friends barely use their phones for calls, so we end up doing a lot of back and forth texting. A lot of slang, and word play, and riffing off of in-jokes. Voice to text just can't do that.


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## scentedlead (May 11, 2015)

brahman said:


> You most definitely *can* have "blackout blocks". Do you sleep? Blackout block. Do you answer messages while showering, on the toilet, or mid-coitus? No? Then those, too, are blackout blocks.


I actually do know someone who answered calls and messages during these times. He was the founder of a startup with tens of millions and a dozen employees at stake. You can tell someone like that that you won't be friends with/won't date them. But with those stakes, you can't really tell them to put the phone down.



> That's exactly why I started this thread: to see what people use smartphones for and if those things would be useful for me. I'm learning that the answer is: not much for me - yet.





> Exactly. It sounds like we don't yet have a killer app for smart watches yet. No doubt we one day will. In the meantime, smart watches sound more useful to people who have different lifestyles than my own.


Whether the smartwatch has a killer app is going to be different for everyone. You don't have yours. I have mine. I have several actually, starting with all the complications that with traditional watches would be found on a half dozen watches, some for 10x the price of my car and I have them on one face for the price of a tablet.

The question isn't whether smartwatches have that killer app for everyone. The question is: When will there be enough apps that the smartwatch will have a killer app for everyone?



> Exactly my point! Miniaturization, Moore's law, etc. mean that as time goes by we can accomplish more with smaller devices.





> Ah, but things do replace other things! (I'll leave Hume's guillotine out of it and not address whether or not they _should_.)
> 
> A lot of people I know don't use desktops at home or at work. They use laptops all the time. At work, they plug their laptop into a keyboard and monitor. I did just that for the last 14 years. So for these people, laptops _have_ replaced desktops.


ENIAC calculated munitions trajectories. Today, that kind of power can be found in a small smartphone, the question is, "Is there an app for that?" Yet building-sized super computers still exist. NOAA does its weather modeling on a supercomputer. Maybe generations from now, the power to process today's data will exist on our wrists. But generations from now, NOAA will also have generations more data to deal with.

Same with desktops. I met a graphic designer who remembers the good old days of Adobe Photoshop 1.0. It was installed on "the supercomputer"-a 2MB monster at a special desk that you had to sign up for to use. Being a small outfit, there might be a few people ahead of you in line, or two, or one, or none. But you get the point about the atmosphere about that station-special computer for special work! Today, most people don't need desktops but those who do, really really do. Have fun animating a Pixar-quality movie on a laptop that doesn't melt itself onto your legs.

I knew a guy who bought a gaming quality laptop before being sent to Iraq-he joked that the thing would never touch his lap, but worth it to play games. For what I do, Photoshop included, a Macbook Air with SSD is all I need.

People will always want bigger computers for more power and people will always want smaller computers for convenience, and that's accounting for the fact that people will _always_ want more power.



> This is what I mean by keyboard and monitor. Not that you carry them around with you; rather, that you can attach your device into them at your desk at work. But I think we were just talking past one another with the whole video out, keyboard in subject. I was mostly just reflecting on the trajectory of technological development. That smaller devices at first seem like novelties, or tools for a tiny niche of users, or toys for rich nerds. (Think: laptops in the early 1990s.) And later on, they become more powerful, more useful, and less costly. And pretty soon people do real work on them. And they become integrated into the fabric of our lives.
> 
> So no, I'm not married to the idea of dockable smart watches. That's just one speculative trajectory that smart watches could follow.


Of course people are going to want to do real work on anything-but input is key.

I'd rather use a desktop for analyzing spreadsheets-the size of the screen plus keyboard and mouse trump a tablet, even with a keyboard, because using fingers and styli for input sucks for those tasks. But I'd rather use a tablet for drawing and sketching-drawing with a mouse sucks. There's a reason why the Apple Pencil made such big news last year-it's going to disrupt the stylus and drawing tablet market. Who cares about the keyboard cover Apple made last year; do you know anyone who talked about that? I don't. Apple released a PENCIL. Is this the Cintiq killer? Is this the bluetooth styli killer? Blah blah blah, Apple Pencil, blah blah blah.

And the Apple Pencil will make no sense on a watch, just like a keyboard makes no sense. Because usage is a marriage between device size and format with input methods. You can try to mix and match them-people have tried, look at the keyboard case/cover market-but people eventually realize that some forms of input are better for some tasks on some devices and they figure out which combos are best. For a smartwatch, that's going to be buttons, fingers, voice, and movement-better to take what already feels natural and make it more natural than to take something that doesn't feel natural and spend energy pretending that it is.


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## MMT (Feb 11, 2006)

The main reason for me using a smartwatch is not to have to take the smartphone out of my jacket in inclement weather. I bought a really cheap smartphone for that purpose and it works fine. 

Cheers,

MMT


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## brahman (Nov 19, 2015)

MMT said:


> The main reason for me using a smartwatch is not to have to take the smartphone out of my jacket in inclement weather.


Very interesting use case... I never thought of that before. It definitely makes sense.


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## scentedlead (May 11, 2015)

Before smartwatches, I survived the cold weather with touchscreen gloves. If you can find a pair with touchscreen leather, that is the best.

My reasons for not wanting to take my phone out is because phone thefts were a problem in the area—spokespeople for police departments enough times went on the news to say, “Don’t take your phones out.” I’ve seen video of people with their watches stolen off their wrists but that’s a lot more brazen, takes more skill, and seems less common than having your phone snatched from your hands.


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## Buhma55c (Jul 11, 2015)

this exemplifies the Apple Watch.


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