# Attention: Problems with Stowa



## Nyrfen

Hello Watchuseek,

*This is a thread I did not want to create in the first place but I felt that I had to.*

So where should I begin? This is my first "serious" watch. I ordered a marine 36mm with roman numerals with the hand-wound movement (2804-2) from Stowa. I decided to purchase the hand-wound version because I did like the look of it on their website and I liked the fact that there would not be a rotor that disturbs me while observing all the fine details on the movement. I fell in love with the balance wheel, the perlage finish and basically the whole movement and the way it looked so I decided that all the "bells and whistles" would be worth the extra 150€ that it would cost me. Me being a bit naïve I also fell for the "you get what you pay for" dilemma, so obviously I thought I would get something great, I spent 150€ extra so that should be the case, right?

So since this was my first watch I was a bit green/new on the subject of watches and grades of ETA movements but I came to realize that people used terms such as "top-grade", "Elaboré-grade" etc, I did not know the hierarchy of those I just knew that there were different grades of the movement and since Stowa explicitly tell the customers that the automatic version is in both top finish and the top grade (for 130€ extra) and also suggest that you can upgrade to the 2804-2 hand-wound version for 150€ you might believe that you will get the best possible movement that they can get, because it's the most costly alternative within that watch model. So I later came to realize that the grade of the movement was elaboré and that the standard of that one is not as good as the top-grade one. I had to email them and ask to find this information it's not clearly stated when you select the hand-wound movement that it is of lower quality.

So now I have bought something that is of less quality for 20€ more than the cheaper alternative that is better on paper. But I still liked the fact that I could see the beautiful movement without a rotor, and I've also heard that Stowa regulate their ETA movements so I still didn't really care since I am sure that I would not notice the difference anyway. I was so hooked on the appearance of the movement so I didn't really care that much of it being a little bit inferior in the timekeeping aspect compared to the top-grade automatic one.

After reading a bit more on this forum I found out that they have had old pictures of their watches before, something about their regulators used to have screw adjustment and now they don't. That kinda scared me and made me write an email to Stowa asking them if their movement pictures on their website is a true representation of the movement or if they had changed anything on it. Turns out that the beautiful movement I fell in love with was an old picture and they sent me a picture of the new one to my mail and they had basically changed everything. The balance wheel was replaced with an uglier one, they added extra text to one of the bridges, the pearl finish was gone the only thing that was left was basically the blued screws honestly it looked dull and depressing compared to the picture they advertise with on their website. So now I am in the process of emailing back and forth with them hoping to find a solution. So don't trust the images on their website they might be outdated or false in some way. Also, their FAQ says that the 2804-2 comes with the pearl finish on the movement but it does not.

*How are customers supposed to know what they are purchasing if all information is either false or outdated somehow?*

Old Pic (the one they use to advertise their hand-wound movement on the website)








This is the new one you will actually get (totally different). This pic was emailed to me from the support. (as you can see, no perlage finish, totally different balance wheel etc etc)








I think it's called false marketing..


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## LosAngelesTimer

If you're not happy and you don't have the watch yet, why not just cancel the order? Seems simple. 

Stowa make a great watch but if what's on offer doesn't please YOU, then look elsewhere. There is hardly a dearth of marine/deck watches out there. 

However, I'm surprised Stowa have not updated the photos on their site. This is at least the second post I recall reading where someone voiced the same complaint - the movement photos on the site not matching the movement as delivered. This is not a difficult change to make - literally a few keystrokes since they already have photos of the new(er) movements.


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## Nyrfen

As I said, I am emailing with them back and forth trying to find a solution. But right now I just feel like I have been fooled. Because as you say, they are supposed to make great watches, I have heard that as well... I just want to raise awareness so this does not happen to somebody else.


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## Skeptical

Sorry, but when your first post is to complain about a company with a good reputation because you couldn't be bothered to ask questions before purchasing I don't have a lot of sympathy. Fortunately for you, I have found their customer service to be quite good and accommodating.


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## LosAngelesTimer

Skeptical said:


> Sorry, but when your first post is to complain about a company with a good reputation because you couldn't be bothered to ask questions before purchasing I don't have a lot of sympathy. Fortunately for you, I have found their customer service to be quite good and accommodating.


Really? Stowa posts photos of a specific movement on their e-commerce site and then slap a different movement into the actual watch they send out to buyers and you're blaming the buyer? That's some twisted, HIGHLY FLAWED logic there. Blame the victim.


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## kiwi71

I really wish I hadn't read this thread. I just received a manual wind Ikarus from the recent special offers. I've been raving about the watch and don't get me wrong, I do love it. I won't be complaining further to Stowa or requesting any refunds or exchanges. But this thread did just call to my attention that I did get a different movement than was depicted in the advertisement. This is the photo on the actual listing in the special offers:










And this is the movement I received:

















I'm just saying the OP's kind of got a point. I already have the watch, been wearing it, and i had no clue about this until reading this thread.

I'd say if the new movement was aesthetically equal to the one in the photos, no problem. But I have to say the one in the website photos is quite a bit prettier to look at. And as someone else said, just update the photos. It shouldn't be that hard to do.

I'm also just kind of wondering, did the manual winds only until recently actually have this nicer looking movement in them? Or did the change happen a while ago?

Again, I love my new watch, I'm keeping it. Stowa is a great company and I've been a fan for a long time. But I do happen to be a living example of the OP's point.

P.S. Who would ever think to ask "Hey, am I actually going to get the movement in the photo you have posted on your website, or is it possible you might a throw a lesser one in there?" Yes, not logical.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bjjkk

Dude, Stowa is a first class company. They will resolve any issue with their customers. You coming on this board and whining, and accusing Stowa of false advertising is just wrong, and quite frankly a dou- che move. If you are not happy you should have just cancelled your order on moved on with your life. Instead you besmirch Stowa stellar reputation because you can't get what you want, waah waah.

The new movement still has Geneva strips, and is finished appropriately for its price point. I fail to see your issue, at all


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## mitchjrj

While I can’t comment on the OP’s experience I will say mine – over two Stowa pieces – has been outstanding. And that is the prevailing attitude towards them here.

Hope it works out for you.


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## LosAngelesTimer

The absence of perspective and objectivity on this thread is disconcerting.

Did Stowa put a different movement than advertised in a watch? YES. There is no arguing that point. None. 
You can argue wether it was a mistake or not but, as I posted above, this is not the first time someone has complained about this precise issue. At this point, one can only assume there's negligence involved. Updating the photos would literally take under an hour - and that's being generous. It would also obviate future customer service complaints, which will only snowball if they continue to use outdated photos. 

Does the OP come across as a "The sky is falling! Ermergerd!!!" type? Yes, perhaps a little of that, too but he does have a point, which has been backed up by another poster on this thread. 

The brand cheerleading on this thread strains credulity and makes me weep for the future of our species.


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## toph

bjjkk said:


> Dude, Stowa is a first class company. They will resolve any issue with their customers. You coming on this board and whining, and accusing Stowa of false advertising is just wrong, and quite frankly a dou- che move. If you are not happy you should have just cancelled your order on moved on with your life. Instead you besmirch Stowa stellar reputation because you can't get what you want, waah waah.
> 
> The new movement still has Geneva strips, and is finished appropriately for its price point. I fail to see your issue, at all


You are absolutely wrong. Whilst I agree that the movement on the watch is still of good quality it is not what is advertised, and in fact appears inferior. 
Is it the end of the world? No. Is it wrong in principle? Absolutely

Someone has the right to spend their money on exactly what they want, as advertised, and expect to receive just that.

It appears they are advertising a different movement to one that Is sold


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## Nyrfen

Skeptical said:


> Sorry, but when your first post is to complain about a company with a good reputation because you couldn't be bothered to ask questions before purchasing I don't have a lot of sympathy. Fortunately for you, I have found their customer service to be quite good and accommodating.


Hello Skeptical,

My intention is not to complain but to *highlight* an issue that is very real and might affect people without them knowing it beforehand. I am sure that Stowa is a company that makes great watches I do not doubt that for one second. However when a company's business model is soley based on an e-commerce website and it's impossible to get a hold of a watch from a physical retailer one might assume that the pictures on their e-commerence are real because when it comes down to it that is the only way for the customer to decide if the items is worth to purchase or not. You / I as a customers should not have to email the customers service to ask if the picture on the website are real represenations or not I cannot think of a single other e-commerce website that I have done that.

They are selling a luxuary product that costs lots of money. If I purchase something cheap (lets say less than 100€) I couldn't care less if something was missing or different than advertised but this is not (for most people) a cheap item.

Stowa is well-known for offering fine decorations on the movement (I am sure you are aware of this) in this specific price segment, if that statement is based on the pictures on the website or if it's based on the watches people have bought, I do not know. But for me that was one big selling point I was thrilled to get a hold of my Stowa because I have heard so much about them.

Would you say the same if they did change the dial on the front of the watch as well, let say you get a dial that was not on the pictures on the website, how would you react? I can imagine you would be a bit annoyed to say the least. Now it's not the dial that is changed but the movement that has undergone a total makeover without the buyers knowledge of it. I most certainly think that is a problem to be discussed therefore I decided to publish this thread. I do not care if you think that this is a minor issue, feel free. But I think it's a major one, one to be raised and discussed.

Thanks


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## fracture.

I love my Stowa as much as the next guy, but the amount of fanboyism in this thread is unbelievable. I don't know if OP claims are true or not, but* if* they are, that is *illegal*.


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## Nyrfen

fracture. said:


> I love my Stowa as much as the next guy, but the amount of fanboyism in this thread is unbelievable. I don't know if OP claims are true or not, but* if* they are, that is *illegal*.


Yes that is probably true. I can assure you that what I am saying is correct as I mentioned before it was actually their customer service (ironically...) that informed me about this. I wonder how they can spend time informing me that thier pictures are outdated but without doing anything about it like updating the pictures for instance.

My only wish is to recieve a watch looking like the one that I decided to purchased on their website or as close to it as possible. I do not think that is to much to ask for. And if the reputation of the Stowa brand is as good as people say I am sure they will help me in some way. Otherwise mabye they shouldn't have a good reputation anyways.

I wonder how long this has been going on unnoticed..

Correct me if I am wrong fracture but didn't you have problems with Stowa as well? I think i recall reading on of your threads. Did they resolve your problem in a good manner?


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## fracture.

I did have problems with Stowa. I ended up getting a refund, but I love the damn watch so much I bought it again almost a year later and I still love it. This time it works like a charm...for now (it's only a month or so old).

I always try to be as objective as possible. I don't want to be either a fanboy of Stowa or a fanboy of you, OP. Objectively, if you are correct in your claim - and I have no reason not to believe you because you showed proof that what you say is true - is illegal in EU. And all this "superb customer service" that gets pushed a lot around here - they're obligated to provide it by law. I'm not saying Stowa's customer service is bad, make no mistake, I'm just saying that what they do provide they have to by law anyway. We in the EU have strict laws, especially when it comes to online sales ("distance sales", as we name them in our laws).


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## kiwi71

fracture. said:


> I did have problems with Stowa. I ended up getting a refund, but I love the damn watch so much I bought it again almost a year later and I still love it. This time it works like a charm...for now (it's only a month or so old).
> 
> I always try to be as objective as possible. I don't want to be either a fanboy of Stowa or a fanboy of you, OP. Objectively, if you are correct in your claim - and I have no reason not to believe you because you showed proof that what you say is true - is illegal in EU. And all this "superb customer service" that gets pushed a lot around here - they're obligated to provide it by law. I'm not saying Stowa's customer service is bad, make no mistake, I'm just saying that what they do provide they have to by law anyway. We in the EU have strict laws, especially when it comes to online sales ("distance sales", as we name them in our laws).


Again, I love my Stowa, but it really isn't even an issue of whether the OP is correct or not. The movement in the photo on the website is different than what they are sending out in the watches, at least in my case it was. I think the Stowa supporting argument is simply that it doesn't matter and the current movement is simply equal but slightly different. Anyone who read my first post would see that I absolutely received a different movement than advertised (at least photographically). And I was completely unaware of it until finding this thread.

I'm not that technically knowledgeable of the inner workings of movements, so I'd like to know are both of these movements an ETA 2804-2? I'm guessing they are. Are they just different levels of the same movement? Elabore vs ???? It's obvious to me that the regulator (is that what it's called?) is very different in the website photo and the actual movement I received. I imagine this is what the OP mentioned as far as an adjustable one vs a non-adjustable?

So, yes, this is actually happening right now. I received mine about a week and a half ago. The question is how soon will it be addressed/corrected by Stowa?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mirabello1

Stowa should jump on this thread and comment


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## Jörg Schauer

Hello Nyrfen,

its me , Jörg Schauer, CEO of STOWA. I will check everything next week after our yearly event "STOWA Hiking" (tomorow) which doesn´t allow me to check already tomorrow.

I will do on Monday/Tuesday and let you know ASAP.

In the reason that i make the pictures of the watches - or use them for the shop - i think it is a mistake by my own which should not happen.

But i wil check it and let you know whats happen with this picture.

Bye for now

Jörg Schauer
CEO STOWA


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## Nyrfen

kiwi71 said:


> Again, I love my Stowa, but it really isn't even an issue of whether the OP is correct or not. The movement in the photo on the website is different than what they are sending out in the watches, at least in my case it was. I think the Stowa supporting argument is simply that it doesn't matter and the current movement is simply equal but slightly different. Anyone who read my first post would see that I absolutely received a different movement than advertised (at least photographically). And I was completely unaware of it until finding this thread.
> 
> I'm not that technically knowledgeable of the inner workings of movements, so I'd like to know are both of these movements an ETA 2804-2? I'm guessing they are. Are they just different levels of the same movement? Elabore vs ???? It's obvious to me that the regulator (is that what it's called?) is very different in the website photo and the actual movement I received. I imagine this is what the OP mentioned as far as an adjustable one vs a non-adjustable?
> 
> So, yes, this is actually happening right now. I received mine about a week and a half ago. The question is how soon will it be addressed/corrected by Stowa?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am frustrated to hear that you are in the same situation as me, I wish that Stowa will help us resolve this as quickly and effectivly as possible.

As I've understood the "old version" they use on their website is also a 2804 hand-wound movement but I am not sure which grade, it sure looks like it's either elaboré or top-grade. There are tons of differences in the apperance of the movement just to name a few they removed: perlage finishing, screw adjustment regulator and decided to go for another balance wheel with straight spokes etc etc just to name a few. I would go as far to say that compared with the old version the new one is almost not even top-finished with the exception for the blued screws.

I think that the aestetics of the movement is one of the most crucial factors to why someone would like to purchase the hand-wound version since there is no rotor to distract the view. But now they have changed it without announcing it anywhere on their website. I am feeling a bit lost to be honest I was so hyped on getting my watch but now it feels like I have been deceived, I do not know what to think after realizing this.

you wrote the following:
_"I think the Stowa supporting argument is simply that it doesn't matter and the current movement is simply equal but slightly different." _

I understand that might be the case. However that is not valid reasoning because that is utterly naïve and on the brink of being pure stupitidy. To think that the customers that pays hundreds and up to a few thosands of euros would not care if they changed on of the most crucial parts of the whole watch. Especially when they have an open sapphire case-back with the sole purpose to view the movement. And if they say it's "slightly different" that is an understatement to say the least.

I am not sure if it's only the hand-wound movements that is affected or if they've changed all the automatic ones as well, if someone knows please feel free to chime in.


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## Nyrfen

Jörg Schauer said:


> Hello Nyrfen,
> 
> its me , Jörg Schauer, CEO of STOWA. I will check everything next week after our yearly event "STOWA Hiking" (tomorow) which doesn´t allow me to check already tomorrow.
> 
> I will do on Monday/Tuesday and let you know ASAP.
> 
> In the reason that i make the pictures of the watches - or use them for the shop - i think it is a mistake by my own which should not happen.
> 
> But i wil check it and let you know whats happen with this picture.
> 
> Bye for now
> 
> Jörg Schauer
> CEO STOWA


Hello Mr. Schauer!

Thanks for looking into this, I hope that we will solve this problem in a good way. It's not a pleasant surprise to purchase something and get something else other than advertised. I want a watch movement that looks more like the one on your website with perlage finishing and the balance wheel that looks like the old one.
Have a nice weekend and be sure to get back to me as soon as possible.

Thanks!


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## fracture.

Nyrfen said:


> I am not sure if it's only the hand-wound movements that is affected or if they've changed all the automatic ones as well, if someone knows please feel free to chime in.


My automatic looks like the one advertised.


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## M6TT F

I bought a handwound Verus, about 7 months ago from memory. Mine has the same movement as yours, not as pictured. Still tells the time, accurately. Slightly disappointing? If it turns out to be a lesser grade movement, I’ll Be interested to see how this is dealt with


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## taurnilf

I've asked Stowa's customer service before and was told the handwound movement is an Elaboré grade ETA 2804-2 with a Top finish.


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## woiter

The top 2824 in my marine 36 looks as advertised.









Considering the excellent customer service experience I had from them, I am sure they can work something out to bring this to a satisfactory conclusion.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## Nyrfen

woiter said:


> The top 2824 in my marine 36 looks as advertised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering the excellent customer service experience I had from them, I am sure they can work something out to bring this to a satisfactory conclusion.
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


What a beautiful watch you've got there!  
I am glad to hear that it's probably only the hand-wound movements that is affected by this issue of false advertising. I am almost certain that Stowa will rectify this in some good manner, I still have hope.

But I think it's important to inform people about things like this to raise awareness regarding the situation. I think it's better that potential customers read this thread before purchasing something that differs that much from the advertised product. Otherwise Stowas reputation is going to be damaged permanently with customers all around the world complaining to their friends etc. But now I gave them a perfect chance to fix the situation. Who knows maybe they wasen't even aware of the situation before i mentioned it, If so.. now is a great time to fix it.


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## woiter

Nyrfen said:


> What a beautiful watch you've got there!
> I am glad to hear that it's probably only the hand-wound movements that is affected by this issue of false advertising. I am almost certain that Stowa will rectify this in some good manner, I still have hope.
> 
> But I think it's important to inform people about things like this to raise awareness regarding the situation. I think it's better that potential customers read this thread before purchasing something that differs that much from the advertised product. Otherwise Stowas reputation is going to be damaged permanently with customers all around the world complaining to their friends etc. But now I gave them a perfect chance to fix the situation. Who knows maybe they wasen't even aware of the situation before i mentioned it, If so.. now is a great time to fix it.


Let's just say you made me double check what was going on in my watch. Awareness and holding people responsible is always good. Let's not blow this out of proportions and wait until Jörg gets back to you on this.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## Saluk

I think that movement shown on Stowa website is actually "SW 215" not ETA 2804-2. SW 215 was used some years ago but they changed it to ETA 2804-2. It is weird that photo of 36mm version is outdated but photo of 40mm versions shows corect movement. 

You can see older version with SW 215 movement if you Google "Stowa marine hand wound SW 215" .


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## Nokie

Jorg is first class when it comes to backing his products.


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## woiter

Saluk said:


> I think that movement shown on Stowa website is actually "SW 215" not ETA 2804-2. SW 215 was used some years ago but they changed it to ETA 2804-2. It is weird that photo of 36mm version is outdated but photo of 40mm versions shows corect movement.
> 
> You can see older version with SW 215 movement if you Google "Stowa marine hand wound SW 215" .


That is surprising, if anything I would expect Stowa to make the shift from ETA to Sellita and not the other way around. Still though since the SW215 and the ETA2804 are virtually identical, the finishing could be easily kept the same.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## Nyrfen

Saluk said:


> I think that movement shown on Stowa website is actually "SW 215" not ETA 2804-2. SW 215 was used some years ago but they changed it to ETA 2804-2. It is weird that photo of 36mm version is outdated but photo of 40mm versions shows corect movement.
> 
> You can see older version with SW 215 movement if you Google "Stowa marine hand wound SW 215" .


That is an interesting observation Saluk but I am not sure if that is the case, but it might be!

This is a screenshot of the FAQ on Stowas website with information regarding the 2804-2 movement, notice what they specify.. Rhodium Coated Movement, Cotes de Genéve stripes _*and pearl finish*_ (same as perlage finish). Still the "new movement" does not have any perlage finish. So both the image used to advertise the watch and thier FAQ states that there should be a perlage finish on the hand-wound movement. Yet the new one that they actually send out does not have it.

You can read for yourself: https://www.stowa.de/en/FAQ/


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## Nyrfen

Nokie said:


> Jorg is first class when it comes to backing his products.


I trust you! Jörg seems like a person that won't give up until the customer is satisfied. That is at least my impression from reading other threads. So I am sure until he proves me otherwise.


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## tsteph12

This is my Flieger Weiss received a couple weeks ago through Special Offers. Beautiful watch and love it regardless.


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## City74

Ok wait, so you start a thread about a watch that you don’t currently own (yet) and because you didn’t do your homework before purchasing the watch you try to soil a companies name? You are still in talks with them and I’m sure they will find a solution to the issue as they are a top rate company and I have always had excellent service. Honestly it’s people like you that make me glad I’m not a business owner


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## Nyrfen

City74 said:


> Ok wait, so you start a thread about a watch that you don't currently own (yet) and because you didn't do your homework before purchasing the watch you try to soil a companies name? You are still in talks with them and I'm sure they will find a solution to the issue as they are a top rate company and I have always had excellent service. Honestly it's people like you that make me glad I'm not a business owner


Dear City74,

I started a thread to enlighten the potential customers that was going to purchase a watch without knowing what they were going to get, as someone else mentioned previously in this thread is that false advertising is ilegal in Europe. If you've read the whole thread you have already seen examples of customers that has experienced this. I am also sure that Stowa will fix this somehow, I am also sure that this is a mistake and not something Stowa did on purpose.

In theory I already own the watch, I've transferd my money to Stowa but the watch is not in my possession yet since I am waiting for the delivery, there is a difference. I do not think that a company of Stowas caliber needs any rude white knights defending them. I think they're fully capable of speaking for themselves and I think it's good for a company to be questioned if something like this appears, frankly I think Stowa appericiate when customers can help them find mistakes like these. I think it's good that you're not a business owner if you can't handle criticism, but let's not go off-topic.

Have a nice day.


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## Acidstain

City74 said:


> Ok wait, so you start a thread about a watch that you don't currently own (yet) and because you didn't do your homework before purchasing the watch you try to soil a companies name? You are still in talks with them and I'm sure they will find a solution to the issue as they are a top rate company and I have always had excellent service. Honestly it's people like you that make me glad I'm not a business owner


It's already ordered and paid for. He's just waiting for to arrive. Customer support emailed him a picture of the actual movement he will receive, and that's when he noticed it's different from the advertised picture.

And what homework were you suggesting he do? Research "is stowa engaged in false advertisement?" Or "will i receive the watch picture on stowa's website or will they send me something different?"

How would you feel if you buy something from the WUS trade forum, and received a watch different from what was pictured?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## whineboy

Nyrfen said:


> Hello Mr. Schauer!
> 
> Thanks for looking into this, I hope that we will solve this problem in a good way. It's not a pleasant surprise to purchase something and get something else other than advertised. I want a watch movement that looks more like the one on your website with perlage finishing and the balance wheel that looks like the old one.
> Have a nice weekend and be sure to get back to me as soon as possible.
> 
> Thanks!


Not sure if you are aware, but the reason you want the pretty balance wheel is because it's made of Glucydur, a better material than what's used in elabore-grade ETA movements (brass, IIRC).

https://watchotaku.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/swr/pages/1638452/ETA+grades

By the way, while I'm not a German/European attorney, I am a US attorney. May I point out that when you say "I started a thread... false advertising is ilegal in Europe", you could be perceived as accusing Stowa of false advertising, and if you do not have a sufficient factual basis of deceptive intent for that allegation you yourself might be engaging in libel (in the US, libel = written defamation, slander = spoken defamation)? Stowa is a respected company with a valuable reputation they work hard to maintain.

Good luck, OP. Hope you will still be able to enjoy the watch you end up with.


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## praetor47

Acidstain said:


> It's already ordered and paid for. He's just waiting for to arrive. Customer support emailed him a picture of the actual movement he will receive, and that's when he noticed it's different from the advertised picture.
> 
> And what homework were you suggesting he do? Research "is stowa engaged in false advertisement?" Or "will i receive the watch picture on stowa's website or will they send me something different?"
> 
> How would you feel if you buy something from the WUS trade forum, and received a watch different from what was pictured?


he'd probably accuse himself of not doing the research and soiling the name of a poor WUS member who falsely advertised the item for sale by posting a picture not matching said item...


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## whineboy

praetor47 said:


> he'd probably accuse himself of not doing the research and soiling the name of a poor WUS member who falsely advertised the item for sale by posting a picture not matching said item...


Agreed. As a longtime WUS member and Stowa owner, I am impressed by Jorg's responsiveness and attention to customer service. Jorg gets it. What I find interesting here is that OP seems more concerned with the appearance of the top-grade movement than the mechanical superiority of top over elabore.

And even grade doesn't always matter. My two most accurate/precise mechanical watches are a Hamilton Jazzmaster with an elabore-grade ETA 2895-2 that loses 1-2 seconds daily, and a Damasko DA46 with an elabore-grade ETA 2836-2 that gains 1-3 seconds daily. Kudos to whoever regulated them.

Pix or it didn't happen....









(not mine)

and


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## City74

Nyrfen said:


> Dear City74,
> 
> I started a thread to enlighten the potential customers that was going to purchase a watch without knowing what they were going to get, as someone else mentioned previously in this thread is that false advertising is ilegal in Europe. If you've read the whole thread you have already seen examples of customers that has experienced this. I am also sure that Stowa will fix this somehow, I am also sure that this is a mistake and not something Stowa did on purpose.
> 
> In theory I already own the watch, I've transferd my money to Stowa but the watch is not in my possession yet since I am waiting for the delivery, there is a difference. I do not think that a company of Stowas caliber needs any rude white knights defending them. I think they're fully capable of speaking for themselves and I think it's good for a company to be questioned if something like this appears, frankly I think Stowa appericiate when customers can help them find mistakes like these. I think it's good that you're not a business owner if you can't handle criticism, but let's not go off-topic.
> 
> Have a nice day.


Enlighten people? I think people can do that for themselves. You don't have a clue honestly. The title of your thread says it all and the statement "I really don't want to do this" should have been the end to your post. You slander a good company because of you not knowing? No cool

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## City74

Acidstain said:


> It's already ordered and paid for. He's just waiting for to arrive. Customer support emailed him a picture of the actual movement he will receive, and that's when he noticed it's different from the advertised picture.
> 
> And what homework were you suggesting he do? Research "is stowa engaged in false advertisement?" Or "will i receive the watch picture on stowa's website or will they send me something different?"
> 
> How would you feel if you buy something from the WUS trade forum, and received a watch different from what was pictured?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You throw the false advertising term around pretty easy. I don't think the would or need to do that at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nyrfen

whineboy said:


> Not sure if you are aware, but the reason you want the pretty balance wheel is because it's made of Glucydur, a better material than what's used in elabore-grade ETA movements (brass, IIRC).
> 
> https://watchotaku.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/swr/pages/1638452/ETA+grades
> 
> By the way, while I'm not a German/European attorney, I am a US attorney. May I point out that when you say "I started a thread... false advertising is ilegal in Europe", you could be perceived as accusing Stowa of false advertising, and if you do not have a sufficient factual basis of deceptive intent for that allegation you yourself might be engaging in libel (in the US, libel = written defamation, slander = spoken defamation)? Stowa is a respected company with a valuable reputation they work hard to maintain.
> 
> Good luck, OP. Hope you will still be able to enjoy the watch you end up with.


Thanks for tuning in!
Yes I am aware that the wheel on the old picture appears to be made of Glacydur and not gold-plated nickel, I can't be sure of that though since I just have the apperence to go by.

I did also say that _"I am also sure that this is a mistake and not something Stowa did on purpose._" Which I stand by. I do honestly feel like this is a mistake and not something Stowa did with intent. But it's a fact that the picture on the website differs from the one that their customer service sent me via email. And also that other people in this thread have received watches with movements looking in another way compared to the one advertised on their webpage.

I am sure Stowa and I will solve this is a good way, so I am certain that I will be happy with the end result  
Thanks for wishing me good luck! |>


----------



## JacobC

My rational and even keeled response would be that Stowa has an obligation to correctly depict the product a customer will be buying. Full stop.

Anything else from anyone else should be withheld until we see a corrective action from Stowa as the CEO has already indicated will happen. There's no reason to grab pitchforks yet.

The OP's complaint is legitimate but "false advertising" requires intent when in this case it's clear it's a simple error that was overlooked and will be corrected.


----------



## woiter

whineboy said:


> Not sure if you are aware, but the reason you want the pretty balance wheel is because it's made of Glucydur, a better material than what's used in elabore-grade ETA movements (brass, IIRC).
> 
> https://watchotaku.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/swr/pages/1638452/ETA+grades
> 
> By the way, while I'm not a German/European attorney, I am a US attorney. May I point out that when you say "I started a thread... false advertising is ilegal in Europe", you could be perceived as accusing Stowa of false advertising, and if you do not have a sufficient factual basis of deceptive intent for that allegation you yourself might be engaging in libel (in the US, libel = written defamation, slander = spoken defamation)? Stowa is a respected company with a valuable reputation they work hard to maintain.
> 
> Good luck, OP. Hope you will still be able to enjoy the watch you end up with.


The elabore 2804-2 used by Stowa supposedly has a gold plated nickel Balance wheel (according to the FAQ anyway).









Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## whineboy

woiter said:


> The elabore 2804-2 used by Stowa supposedly has a gold plated nickel Balance wheel (according to the FAQ anyway).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


Noted. Thanks.

whineboy

All mechanical, all the time


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## LosAngelesTimer

False advertising implies intent. Negligence does not. 

As this is at least the second post I've seen detailing this specific complaint - with at least two people on this thread who have received or are about to receive a different movement than was advertised - we've got to assume the latter at the very least. Again, Stowa, why not just change the photo on your site and update the relevant copy? 

Seems like the best solution for both your business and for future customers.


----------



## whineboy

LosAngelesTimer said:


> False advertising implies intent. Negligence does not.
> 
> As this is at least the second post I've seen detailing this specific complaint - with at least two people on this thread who have received or are about to receive a different movement than was advertised - we've got to assume the latter at the very least. Again, Stowa, why not just change the photo on your site and update the relevant copy?
> 
> Seems like the best solution for both your business and for future customers.


[edit: toned down the rhetoric, not looking to start a beef with LosAngelesTimer]

I agree fixing the website is sensible.

Jorg has spent decades building up Stowa and developing its reputation, think long and hard about that, before you cast aspersions. I should think DE/EP consumer law acknowledges we are all human and make mistakes. I read 10s, 100s of positive threads on this forum, let's give Stowa the chance to address this issue.

whineboy

All mechanical, all the time


----------



## Nyrfen

*Okey I think we should wait to hear what Jörg/Stowa has to say about this now, I appriciate all support and interesting discussions but I think it's time to let Stowa answer before this thread gets out of control, I am certain that Stowa will make this right. Everyone is able to makes mistakes. Lets draw a line here. Thanks :-! *


----------



## kiwi71

Wow, this thread is getting out of control rather quickly. I am an attorney, but I wouldn’t presume to make any legal judgements here. And I don’t think anyone else is. In using the term false advertising, I don’t think anyone is making legal arguments nor threatening legal action (yes I know it’s a legal term). No one is going to sue (at least I hope not) and no one is opening an international case with all those pesky issues like venue and standing, over a $700 watch. 

False advertising may come across a little harsh, but it’s the simplest way to describe the fact that there is a photo on the website of a very beautiful hand wound movement in several watches sold by Stowa and customers, like me, have received a completely different movement upon purchasing those watches. The movement we/I received is nice, but it is undoubtedly different from what is shown on the website. I’ll say it again. It is a different movement. I feel like some the posters on here have not accepted this fact. If the Stowa supporters on here think that the OP and I and the couple of others who have chimed in with the same experience, are lying, then we have a whole other issue. But this is a fact. After following and participating in this thread, I feel that some really have not thoroughly read all the posts and viewed all the photos, because some of the responses just defy logic.

Also important, no one on here has ever suggested that Stowa did this purposely or intended to deceive anyone! At worst, it’s been presented as an oversight that maybe hasn’t been addressed quickly enough. 

And for those who haven’t thoroughly read all the posts, I am a Stowa fan and have been for a long time. I was and am thrilled to have finally gotten my hands on my first Stowa, a Flieger Ikarus. 

However, I am also glad that the OP brought this to our attention. Some seem to suggest he should have stayed silent so as not to tarnish the perfect Stowa reputation. And another point, I don’t know how long it’s been since the OP brought this to Stowa’s attention via their private communication, but the photos still have not been removed or updated. If that is difficult to do quickly, then how hard is it to add a line of text on the home page or the affected watches’ pages noting that the movement differs in X manner from the photo?

And for those who still have doubts about the truth of these claims, please go to the Stowa website, click on the Classic Flieger Ikarus, then click the Hand Wound icon and view the photo of the movement that is presented. Then go back to this forum and view my posts of my watch on the “What Stowa are you wearing” and the “Special Offers” thread, where I posted photos of my case back before this thread was started. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kiwi71

Nyrfen said:


> *Okey I think we should wait to hear what Jörg/Stowa has to say about this now, I appriciate all support and interesting discussions but I think it's time to let Stowa answer before this thread gets out of control, I am certain that Stowa will make this right. Everyone is able to makes mistakes. Lets draw a line here. Thanks :-! *


Sorry, Nyrfen. I was working on my last post for a while and didn't see your until I posted it just now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nyrfen

kiwi71 said:


> Sorry, Nyrfen. I was working on my last post for a while and didn't see your until I posted it just now.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's alright kiwi71, you shined some light on some very important things and summarized our intentions in a good way. I agreed with every single word in your post.


----------



## Saluk

I checked stowa website today and they no longer offer hand winding movement for marine watches. It looks like they will update photos so problem described in this thread won't happen in the future.


----------



## indygreg

JacobC said:


> My rational and even keeled response would be that Stowa has an obligation to correctly depict the product a customer will be buying. Full stop.
> 
> Anything else from anyone else should be withheld until we see a corrective action from Stowa as the CEO has already indicated will happen. There's no reason to grab pitchforks yet.
> 
> The OP's complaint is legitimate but "false advertising" requires intent when in this case it's clear it's a simple error that was overlooked and will be corrected.


This would be my stance as well. I have a MO from over 10 years ago that i love, but part of it is the art and beauty of the finished movement. The OP has a right to be disapointed but Stowa are not villains.


----------



## joeabroad

I love Stowa, too, especially the 3 I own, including my new Partitio. I only just realized that the movement of mine is also not as pictured--mainly the change from the regulator screw adustment. I'm not disappointed, but yes, a lot of movement pictures on the Stowa website need to be updated.


----------



## kiwi71

Saluk said:


> I checked stowa website today and they no longer offer hand winding movement for marine watches. It looks like they will update photos so problem described in this thread won't happen in the future.


Yup, they pulled it from the Flieger pages as well. I assume it's site-wide. Good for them. They're on it now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jörg Schauer

Hello everybody,

now our yesterdays STOWA Hiking is over and i will find time to solve this issue.

Just in case we removed all hand wound watch versions in our online shop.

Now i will check if - maybe on one of the last uploads some confusing pictures where uploaded.

I will bring back the hand wound pictures step by step - i need a few hours, 1-2 days.

Sorry if we have confused some customers!

The movement we use since a few years is the Elabore finish like we describe in our FAQ´s. (i have attached the description)

After checking of all pictures i have to guarantee that no wrong pictures are uploaded, this is my job now.

Sorry for the confusion.

Here is the email dress for those who have been confused and want to mail me personally: [email protected]

Please mail me under this headline: „Confusion about movement 2804-2-please forward to Jörg"

I will answer personally by mail in the next days !

Bye for now and sorry again.

Best regards

Jörg Schauer


----------



## City74

Jörg Schauer said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> now our yesterdays STOWA Hiking is over and i will find time to solve this issue.
> 
> Just in case we removed all hand wound watch versions in our online shop.
> 
> Now i will check if - maybe on one of the last uploads some confusing pictures where uploaded.
> 
> I will bring back the hand wound pictures step by step - i need a few hours, 1-2 days.
> 
> Sorry if we have confused some customers!
> 
> The movement we use since a few years is the Elabore finish like we describe in our FAQ´s. (i have attached the description)
> 
> After checking of all pictures i have to guarantee that no wrong pictures are uploaded, this is my job now.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Here is the email dress for those who have been confused and want to mail me personally: [email protected]
> 
> Please mail me under this headline: „Confusion about movement 2804-2-please forward to Jörg"
> 
> I will answer personally by mail in the next days !
> 
> Bye for now and sorry again.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Jörg Schauer
> 
> View attachment 14311787


Now that's a real watch brand owner right there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nyrfen

Jörg Schauer said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> now our yesterdays STOWA Hiking is over and i will find time to solve this issue.
> 
> Just in case we removed all hand wound watch versions in our online shop.
> 
> Now i will check if - maybe on one of the last uploads some confusing pictures where uploaded.
> 
> I will bring back the hand wound pictures step by step - i need a few hours, 1-2 days.
> 
> Sorry if we have confused some customers!
> 
> The movement we use since a few years is the Elabore finish like we describe in our FAQ´s. (i have attached the description)
> 
> After checking of all pictures i have to guarantee that no wrong pictures are uploaded, this is my job now.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Here is the email dress for those who have been confused and want to mail me personally: [email protected]
> 
> Please mail me under this headline: „Confusion about movement 2804-2-please forward to Jörg"
> 
> I will answer personally by mail in the next days !
> 
> Bye for now and sorry again.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Jörg Schauer
> 
> View attachment 14311787


Hello Jörg,

I will make sure to email you so we can solve this together, I am sure we will. I will be awaiting your answer.

Best regards, 
Nyrfen


----------



## seadial

Interesting to note that in the fine print some manufacturers (not necessarily watchmakers) actually state that the model shown may not accurately depict what will be delivered as they reserve the right to make minor changes in readying the model for final production.


----------



## cadenza

woiter said:


> The top 2824 in my marine 36 looks as advertised.
> Considering the excellent customer service experience I had from them, I am sure they can work something out to bring this to a satisfactory conclusion.
> 
> +
> 
> Let's just say you made me double check what was going on in my watch. Awareness and holding people responsible is always good. Let's not blow this out of proportions and wait until Jörg gets back to you on this.





JacobC said:


> My rational and even keeled response would be that Stowa has an obligation to correctly depict the product a customer will be buying. Full stop.
> 
> Anything else from anyone else should be withheld until we see a corrective action from Stowa as the CEO has already indicated will happen. There's no reason to grab pitchforks yet.
> 
> The OP's complaint is legitimate but "false advertising" requires intent when in this case it's clear it's a simple error that was overlooked and will be corrected.


Indeed. Very well stated by both of you.


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## cadenza

It's great when two civilized people (Nyrfen and Jörg Schauer) can work things out between themselves, reasonably, civilly, and demonstrate that outside Sturm, Drang, and Djokovic/Federer level lobbed accusations aren't really that helpful to the discussion at all. 

Nyrfen's original point seems perfectly valid, not "trashing" anyone, even if it is communicated passionately, with enthusiasm, a bit dramatic perhaps, but well-considered and well-written by someone for whom (I assume, possibly incorrectly) English is not the primary language. Of course Mr. Schauer's replies are as considerate and respectful as always. No harm, no foul.

I would completely trust that Stowa will work this out, very fairly, and correct any mistakes. Their CS has always been exemplary, in my experience. This has been an interesting thread to observe, both the interactions and the "positions" taken. The most important, salient, and refreshing aspect is that both of the two directly involved principals communicated respectfully and, it seems, also learned some valuable lessons, to the future benefit of us all.


----------



## Lowrota

Small mistake easily made when 2k has been spent on pretty photos which are outdated - forced by movement/technical changes. I would not have cared, understand some would.

I like Stowa's handling of it. 

Toys can be put back in pram. Hearty back-slaps for all.


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## esteban1925

Kind of funny that the old pic that the OP posted shows the manual movement, but the case back says "Marine Automatic".


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## DCTwin

These appear to be two different movements (or grades). Have you been able to figure out specifically what each or them are?


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## DCTwin

Nyrfen said:


> Hello Watchuseek,
> 
> *This is a thread I did not want to create in the first place but I felt that I had to.*
> 
> So where should I begin? This is my first "serious" watch. I ordered a marine 36mm with roman numerals with the hand-wound movement (2804-2) from Stowa. I decided to purchase the hand-wound version because I did like the look of it on their website and I liked the fact that there would not be a rotor that disturbs me while observing all the fine details on the movement. I fell in love with the balance wheel, the perlage finish and basically the whole movement and the way it looked so I decided that all the "bells and whistles" would be worth the extra 150€ that it would cost me. Me being a bit naïve I also fell for the "you get what you pay for" dilemma, so obviously I thought I would get something great, I spent 150€ extra so that should be the case, right?
> 
> So since this was my first watch I was a bit green/new on the subject of watches and grades of ETA movements but I came to realize that people used terms such as "top-grade", "Elaboré-grade" etc, I did not know the hierarchy of those I just knew that there were different grades of the movement and since Stowa explicitly tell the customers that the automatic version is in both top finish and the top grade (for 130€ extra) and also suggest that you can upgrade to the 2804-2 hand-wound version for 150€ you might believe that you will get the best possible movement that they can get, because it's the most costly alternative within that watch model. So I later came to realize that the grade of the movement was elaboré and that the standard of that one is not as good as the top-grade one. I had to email them and ask to find this information it's not clearly stated when you select the hand-wound movement that it is of lower quality.
> 
> So now I have bought something that is of less quality for 20€ more than the cheaper alternative that is better on paper. But I still liked the fact that I could see the beautiful movement without a rotor, and I've also heard that Stowa regulate their ETA movements so I still didn't really care since I am sure that I would not notice the difference anyway. I was so hooked on the appearance of the movement so I didn't really care that much of it being a little bit inferior in the timekeeping aspect compared to the top-grade automatic one.
> 
> After reading a bit more on this forum I found out that they have had old pictures of their watches before, something about their regulators used to have screw adjustment and now they don't. That kinda scared me and made me write an email to Stowa asking them if their movement pictures on their website is a true representation of the movement or if they had changed anything on it. Turns out that the beautiful movement I fell in love with was an old picture and they sent me a picture of the new one to my mail and they had basically changed everything. The balance wheel was replaced with an uglier one, they added extra text to one of the bridges, the pearl finish was gone the only thing that was left was basically the blued screws honestly it looked dull and depressing compared to the picture they advertise with on their website. So now I am in the process of emailing back and forth with them hoping to find a solution. So don't trust the images on their website they might be outdated or false in some way. Also, their FAQ says that the 2804-2 comes with the pearl finish on the movement but it does not.
> 
> *How are customers supposed to know what they are purchasing if all information is either false or outdated somehow?*
> 
> Old Pic (the one they use to advertise their hand-wound movement on the website)
> View attachment 14304759
> 
> 
> This is the new one you will actually get (totally different). This pic was emailed to me from the support. (as you can see, no perlage finish, totally different balance wheel etc etc)
> View attachment 14304765
> 
> 
> I think it's called false marketing..


It appears to me that the first picture (from the website) is the 2804-2. It's pretty clear that you received a 2801-2 movement. If you look up pictures of both, you'll see that you got the 2801-2. I had thought those were being phased out.


----------



## M6TT F

I was under the impression that the 2804 is the same as the 2801, with the addition of the date complication 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jörg Schauer

Hello everybody,

still working on the check and changing of some pictures.

But: The 2804-2 is the same movement like 2801-2- but *wit*h date !

best regards

Jörg Schauer


----------



## Nyrfen

*Off-topic:
*
I recently found out that the manuals for ETA movements are open for the general public to read. As Jörg mentioned (2801-2 and 2804-2) is basically the same movement with the exception for the date-ring. If I understand correctly Stowa just disables the crown date adjustment on their no-date alternative but still uses the 2804-2 with the date-ring.

*Link to ETA:* https://www.eta.ch/en/our-products/mechanical-movements/mecaline


----------



## 99watches

Lmao destruction 100. You straight up got crushed city boy.


----------



## JacobC

I wish all CEOs were as responsive as Jörg, very good service to say the least.


----------



## LosAngelesTimer

whineboy said:


> [edit: toned down the rhetoric, not looking to start a beef with LosAngelesTimer]
> 
> I agree fixing the website is sensible.
> 
> Jorg has spent decades building up Stowa and developing its reputation, think long and hard about that, before you cast aspersions. I should think DE/EP consumer law acknowledges we are all human and make mistakes. I read 10s, 100s of positive threads on this forum, let's give Stowa the chance to address this issue.
> 
> whineboy
> 
> All mechanical, all the time


Not sure what point you're trying to make. I observed that this did not appear to be false advertising with intent. However, I do see it as negligent - again, no intent - when it comes to updating the website with the correct photos. This negligence resulted in buyers not getting what they paid for and created an easily avoidable customer service hassle for the company.

Negligence as defined by Merriam-Webster: failing to exercise the care expected of a reasonably prudent person in like circumstances

I think that pretty much sums up what happened here.


----------



## Rosenbloom

Thanks OP for bringing up this issue. I was not aware of it until I read this thread. No wonder I could not find the handwinding option on their webstore when I was checking out their new grey limited editions last night.
I think you are fully legitimate in opening this thread. I hope the issue will be resolved very, very soon.

And, this is the Flieger I bought in May 2017:


----------



## cadenza

Rosenbloom said:


> Thanks OP for bringing up this issue. I was not aware of it until I read this thread. *No wonder I could not find the handwinding option on their webstore when I was checking out their new grey limited editions last night*.
> I think you are fully legitimate in opening this thread. I hope the issue will be resolved very, very soon.


That is because Stowa is not offering hand-wound movement options on the Grey LEs they posted a few days ago. Automatic only.

Sapphire crystal case back: yes
ETA 2824-2 TOP movement, automatic: yes.
Hand-wound movement option: no.

Exactly as the description/specifications pages indicate.
In this case, Stowa can hardly be accused of being unclear.


----------



## rob9765

Thanks OP for pointing this out. I have a nicely finished Flieger auto and have been eyeing a Marine manual. I really like the finish on my Flieger and would have been disappointed receiving something less so. I’ll be considering the top grade marine auto more heavily now.


----------



## zquek

Very exciting thread.

I think that the OP's comments and outrage are fair. He is intending to spend a lot of money (objectively for most people) and he should get exactly what he is going to pay for.

I can see that the photos on Stowa website is updated. This gives me strong confidence in Stowa especially seeing how the CEO handled it.

I would buy a Stowa in a few month's time to celebrate the birth of my first-born. I will get something with engraving etc.


----------



## JacobC

zquek said:


> Very exciting thread.
> 
> I think that the OP's comments and outrage are fair. He is intending to spend a lot of money (objectively for most people) and he should get exactly what he is going to pay for.
> 
> I can see that the photos on Stowa website is updated. This gives me strong confidence in Stowa especially seeing how the CEO handled it.
> 
> I would buy a Stowa in a few month's time to celebrate the birth of my first-born. I will get something with engraving etc.


Yep. Stowa proving again they are among the most nimble companies out there and VERY quick to resolve issues to make their customers happy. They have a reputation of this I feel I've seen plenty of evidence of in the past years. I'm hoping to buy their new Grey Partitio soon.

Instagram: open_escapement


----------



## Gargamel35

Good that they updated the website. But what else was done to "solve" this problem? Updating website does nothing for people that already have a watch. 

Were buyers compensated in any way since they paid full price and got a lesser watch for their money?


----------



## jermyzy

My flieger Baumuster B with the 215-1 handwind movement has the perlage and nicer balance wheel on it


----------



## brainless

Gargamel35 said:


> Good that they updated the website. But what else was done to "solve" this problem? Updating website does nothing for people that already have a watch.
> 
> Were buyers compensated in any way since they paid full price and got a lesser watch for their money?


WHAT are you asking for?
Regarding to your signature you don't own any Stowa watch. Are you craving for sensation?
Be assured any issues will be solved in a dialogue between customers in question and Stowa,

Volker


----------



## cadenza

Gargamel35 said:


> Good that they updated the website. But what else was done to "solve" this problem? Updating website does nothing for people that already have a watch.
> 
> Were buyers compensated in any way since they paid full price and got a lesser watch for their money?


Wow, talk about a back-handed compliment....

There are enough difficult, with far more serious consequences to society at large, "reparations" discussions going on in the world right now that to ask this question in the manner it was asked is fairly ludicrous as well as definitely insulting to Stowa.

Stowa have indicated that they are addressing the issue, and they have certainly started to do so as evidenced by the corrections on their website. So, perhaps allow Stowa and those specific individuals who may still feel so aggrieved by this now-corrected mistake to resolve any further issues amongst themselves, like mature, rational adults rather than petulant, petty children?

If those individuals and/or Stowa choose to publish any eventual decisions, so be it, but until then we the non-affected do not really need to know those private details...this isn't exactly Ford having sold fire-prone Pintos to millions of customers, after all....


----------



## Jörg Schauer

Hello again,

some of the readers already saw that we have checked the most of the pictures and if necessary (only a few) we changed them into the former pictures. Like i told before - after a backup there have been a few pictures showing the older version of the movements we have used years ago. Now our summer holidays interrupt the process of checking and changing if necessary the pictures (all STOWA employees are in holidays). We finish the work right after our holidays. In the meantime we have taken out this versions to be sure that nothing happen. We are sorry again for this confusion - but we never have had any "plan" to show things we don´t deliver. Our long term worldwide reputation is completely different. I still understand that some clients (a handful which was or is under process of buying) have been confused. 

Again sorry for this - in the future we have to take care that backups and changing of models are 100% perfect - text and pictures.

Bye for now.

Jörg Schauer
CEO of STOWA


----------



## JacobC

Attention other CEOS: this is how you handle business.


Instagram: open_escapement


----------



## Nyrfen

Hello everyone, OP here!

My watch arrived today so I thought I would provide everyone with an update regarding the reason I started this thread. As everyone knows Mr. Schauer stepped in and took care of the situation by updating the pictures on their website. I think it was good that we noticed this in time. I won't go into any details but Stowa did a lot to make me happy with my watch purchase. I spoke to Mr. Schauer personally several times and worked out a solution that would fit both of us.

We need to remember that the most important thing is not whether you make mistakes or not but how the company decides to resolve them when they do appear. It can happen to the best of us. It's not hard for a company to gain a good reputation as long as everything is working out as planned. The real reputation is gained when the company is put to the test and I must say that Stowa did well.

I had to wait about eight weeks for the delivery but it was worth the wait and I can accept that the delivery was a bit late due to everything that happend. I would highly recommend Stowa. Here are some pictures of this little piece of art.

Best regards,
Nyrfen


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## brainless

That's exactly the result I expected to hear. 
Well done, Jörg. :-!


Volker


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## Rickster27b

That is a Gorgeous time piece ! Congratulations Nyrfen. (Ps. ... I want one!)


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## kiwi71

Nyrfen said:


> Hello everyone, OP here!
> 
> My watch arrived today so I thought I would provide everyone with an update regarding the reason I started this thread. As everyone knows Mr. Schauer stepped in and took care of the situation by updating the pictures on their website. I think it was good that we noticed this in time. I won't go into any details but Stowa did a lot to make me happy with my watch purchase. I spoke to Mr. Schauer personally several times and worked out a solution that would fit both of us.
> 
> We need to remember that the most important thing is not whether you make mistakes or not but how the company decides to resolve them when they do appear. It can happen to the best of us. It's not hard for a company to gain a good reputation as long as everything is working out as planned. The real reputation is gained when the company is put to the test and I must say that Stowa did well.
> 
> I had to wait about eight weeks for the delivery but it was worth the wait and I can accept that the delivery was a bit late due to everything that happend. I would highly recommend Stowa. Here are some pictures of this little piece of art.
> 
> Best regards,
> Nyrfen
> 
> View attachment 14405867
> 
> 
> View attachment 14405869
> 
> 
> View attachment 14405911


Congrats! Very nice!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## City74

Maybe next time take it up direct with the company before sorta dragging a company thru the mud without giving them a chance to make it right first


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## woiter

Nyrfen said:


> Hello everyone, OP here!
> 
> My watch arrived today so I thought I would provide everyone with an update regarding the reason I started this thread. As everyone knows Mr. Schauer stepped in and took care of the situation by updating the pictures on their website. I think it was good that we noticed this in time. I won't go into any details but Stowa did a lot to make me happy with my watch purchase. I spoke to Mr. Schauer personally several times and worked out a solution that would fit both of us.
> 
> We need to remember that the most important thing is not whether you make mistakes or not but how the company decides to resolve them when they do appear. It can happen to the best of us. It's not hard for a company to gain a good reputation as long as everything is working out as planned. The real reputation is gained when the company is put to the test and I must say that Stowa did well.
> 
> I had to wait about eight weeks for the delivery but it was worth the wait and I can accept that the delivery was a bit late due to everything that happend. I would highly recommend Stowa. Here are some pictures of this little piece of art.
> 
> Best regards,
> Nyrfen
> 
> View attachment 14405867
> 
> 
> View attachment 14405869
> 
> 
> View attachment 14405911


Nice strap. Where did you get it? (Not asking for a friend)

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## cadenza

Nyrfen said:


> Hello everyone, OP here!
> 
> My watch arrived today so I thought I would provide everyone with an update regarding the reason I started this thread. As everyone knows Mr. Schauer stepped in and took care of the situation by updating the pictures on their website. I think it was good that we noticed this in time. I won't go into any details but Stowa did a lot to make me happy with my watch purchase. I spoke to Mr. Schauer personally several times and worked out a solution that would fit both of us.
> 
> *We need to remember that the most important thing is not whether you make mistakes or not but how the company decides to resolve them when they do appear. It can happen to the best of us. It's not hard for a company to gain a good reputation as long as everything is working out as planned. The real reputation is gained when the company is put to the test and I must say that Stowa did well.*
> 
> I had to wait about eight weeks for the delivery but it was worth the wait and I can accept that the delivery was a bit late due to everything that happend. I would highly recommend Stowa. Here are some pictures of this little piece of art.
> 
> Best regards,
> Nyrfen


Good news, and a good outcome.
Bravo to you for your communication and perseverance, and bravo to Stowa for their professionalism across the board.

Thank you for posting the conclusion to the story.


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## cadenza

City74 said:


> Maybe next time take it up direct with the company before sorta dragging a company thru the mud without giving them a chance to make it right first


Jeezus....

Or, maybe...just let other people (the other people being Nyrfen and Mr. Schauer/Stowa as the two and only principals involved here) work things out between themselves, like mature adults, as they were obviously perfectly capable of doing, without the interference of third-party, uninvolved schoolmarms, and if the story is _also_ presented along the way as a positive learning experience for all, including both the principals as well as us mere readers, then so be it, and thank you for doing so Nyrfen and Mr. Schauer/Stowa.


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## City74

cadenza said:


> Jeezus....
> 
> Or, maybe...just let other people (the other people being Nyrfen and Mr. Schauer/Stowa as the two and only principals involved here) work things out between themselves, like mature adults, as they were obviously perfectly capable of doing, without the interference of third-party, uninvolved schoolmarms, and if the story is _also_ presented along the way as a positive learning experience for all, including both the principals as well as us mere readers, then so be it, and thank you for doing so Nyrfen and Mr. Schauer/Stowa.


It's a thread that doesn't need to exist. The issue hadn't even had time to be resolved. Contact the company and see what is done before making a thread that's a knee jerk reaction

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nyrfen

woiter said:


> Nice strap. Where did you get it? (Not asking for a friend)
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Hello Woiter, the strap is handmade in Italy by a small company with the name "colareb". It's the "Spoleto brown" strap. I love it. I could have paid twice as much and still be happy with it. Thanks for the nice comment 

https://shop.colareb.it/index.php?id_product=83&controller=product&id_lang=1


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## cadenza

City74 said:


> It's a thread that doesn't need to exist. The issue hadn't even had time to be resolved. Contact the company and see what is done before making a thread that's a knee jerk reaction.


That is purely your opinion. Precisely 1) opinion. And, your 1) opinion is not a directive as to how others should conduct themselves, to your pleasure. Has Mr. Schauer complained about this thread existing? Do you think he is offended by its existence? So, what is bothering you so much?

Here are the contrary takes. 
1) Nyrfen the OP clearly thought that this thread needed to exist.
2) I was going to buy a Partitio LE, was thoroughly confused by the information on the Stowa website, found this thread, as a result of which thread the Partitio LE information was subsequently updated; ergo, I am glad that this thread exists.
3) Other (multiple) posters here clearly think the thread needs to exist. 10 pages of posts attests to that.
4) Even Mr. Schauer himself seems fine with the thread existing, as I believe he has stated that it helped him understand and resolve some Stowa website inconsistencies and errors, a website which markets his products not just to you but to the entire world at large. It also afforded him an opportunity to show his and his company's very positive attitude and actions regarding customer service. He is resolving the website issues to our benefit and his, at least partially as a result of this thread. So, again, where is the problem?

Therefore, even without adding up the multiple pros in 3) that's 4 votes for the thread existing, against your 1 vote against. In a democracy, who is OK? And what interest do you have anyway, besides chastising a member and calling a series of his questions, communications, developments, and resolutions "knee-jerk", as if your stance is somehow superior to any other members' stance? If you don't like it, don't post; or, start your own thread and post away in your own manner and to your heart's delight.

The thread was/is in fact useful; it led to some positive changes on the Stowa website; it showed tolerance, understanding, and leadership on Stowa's part; I believe it was certainly far more needed than your opinion that it is unnecessary, etc. There is nobody here complaining to no good at all in the manner you have done. Too bad if that doesn't sit well with you. I really don't understand your issue here. There are _plenty_ of other threads on WUS started by people questioning and/or complaining about many other companies and their products/conduct; plenty of fields full of fodder for you. Enjoy yourself policing them all _ad infinitum_, I suppose....


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## cadenza

Nyrfen said:


> Hello Woiter, the strap is handmade in Italy by a small company with the name "colareb". It's the "Spoleto brown" strap. I love it. I could have paid twice as much and still be happy with it. Thanks for the nice comment
> 
> https://shop.colareb.it/index.php?id_product=83&controller=product&id_lang=1


Very nice strap. 
Colareb do very good work it seems, with some excellent designs and colors, etc. There is a grey one, "Venezia", that I keep meaning to buy, and a dark blue one, beautiful (I think also "Spoleto" like the one you bought).


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## woiter

Nyrfen said:


> Hello Woiter, the strap is handmade in Italy by a small company with the name "colareb". It's the "Spoleto brown" strap. I love it. I could have paid twice as much and still be happy with it. Thanks for the nice comment
> 
> https://shop.colareb.it/index.php?id_product=83&controller=product&id_lang=1


Aah Colareb, should have guessed... lovely as always.


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## woiter

Nyrfen said:


> Hello Woiter, the strap is handmade in Italy by a small company with the name "colareb". It's the "Spoleto brown" strap. I love it. I could have paid twice as much and still be happy with it. Thanks for the nice comment
> 
> https://shop.colareb.it/index.php?id_product=83&controller=product&id_lang=1


Look at what arrived in the mail earlier today... changed the normal buckle out for a deployant i still had kicking around... im a happy camper right now.









Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Nyrfen

woiter said:


> Look at what arrived in the mail earlier today... changed the normal buckle out for a deployant i still had kicking around... im a happy camper right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Cool! Gratz! I am contemplating getting a deployent clasp as well. I have it on one of my other watches and it's really convenient to "undo" the strap. However the one thing holding me back is that the open caseback wont be as easy to glance at. But I really do love that strap with the marine 36!


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