# Seiko SARX035- beautiful but very overpriced?



## Adman (May 11, 2010)

I've always wanted an SARB033 which I absolutely LOVE the look of however I've always felt that 37-38mm is just too small for me so I've never gotten one. The alternatives I've looked at always have something about them that turns me off: the patterned dial and Onyx crown on the SDGM003, the day wheel and the exhibition case back printing on the SARY057, the unusual hands and bracelet on the SARX015 etc. So, when I saw the upcoming release of the beautiful SARX035, I was super excited and decided I would get one- until I saw the price. *****, these things are expensive for what they are! It's a basic three hand stainless steel dress watch with a 6R15 movement (admittedly it also has a Diashield coating) but they are asking more than double the price of a SARB033 and three times the price of an SARY057.

Is it just me or does anyone else think this is a bit over the top price wise?


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## T3C (Mar 28, 2016)

I could be wrong but from the pics I have seen its finishes are way better than the SARB033


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## ryanmanyes (Oct 21, 2013)

I think so too


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## Chute (Feb 10, 2016)

I too thought it odd that it was several hundred dollars more than the Brightz. I don't have many other Seiko's to compare it to, just a Dive watch that has a plastic crystal and a jingling cheap feeling bracelet that cost $125. I have tried on Grand Seiko's and to me the SARX035 is pretty close to them in appearance and the fit and finish is really nice. To me, it's a close as you can get to GS for much less. It is nicer than a Hamilton Jazzmaster for similar money. And given the in house movement it's no comparison to anything Swiss for $800.
For me, it was the Seiko I had been looking for and I can be a bit of a Goldilocks when shopping for expensive items. I think it was absolutely worth it but I've spent much more on watches in the past.


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## alexcswong (Jan 18, 2015)

Yes indeed over price. Maybe this to test market reaction. The price can buy almost 2pcs Sarb035. 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk


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## hooliganjrs (Dec 30, 2011)

Sorry but under the hood you have a movement slightly better than a 7S26 (same beat rate sans hacking and an extra 10 hour power reserve), and a design that is a slightly larger sarb033 (forum darling in these parts) with some better finishing on the case and I don't get it. This is just Seiko propping up a new addition to their line-up and I guarantee price drops on the Big 3 Japanese seller sites within a couple months. I think it's a nice piece but no way I'd spring that kind of dinero. Just my 2 cents. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## hooliganjrs (Dec 30, 2011)

hooliganjrs said:


> Sorry but under the hood you have a movement slightly better than a 7S26 (same beat rate sans hacking and an extra 10 hour power reserve), and a design that is a slightly larger sarb033 (forum darling in these parts) with some better finishing on the case and I don't get it. This is just Seiko propping up a new addition to their line-up and I guarantee price drops on the Big 3 Japanese seller sites within a couple months. I think it's a nice piece but no way I'd spring that kind of dinero. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Oops forgot to mention, I dig the SARX033 a bit more with those blue hands!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

alexcswong said:


> Yes indeed over price. Maybe this to test market reaction. The price can buy almost 2pcs Sarb035.


2.65 exactly. From Rakuten JP prices, 86,400 / 32,500.


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## CLP (Sep 25, 2015)

"Oops forgot to mention, I dig the SARX033 a bit more with those blue hands!"

That's the one thing I dislike about it. Second hand maybe but all 3 are overkill.

Not sure why, but Seiko seems to put a couple of aesthetic deal-killers on all their white faced models for some reason, with the exception of the SBGR051, buts it's not 
<$1000 like the SDGM001 and SARX033 are.


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## Gerard Jones (Feb 27, 2015)

It's pricey, but the quality is there. But I've spent a long time looking at it and find the dial too expansive (large and plain), and the hands not to my taste (don't like the soft curve and extra long minute hand).

Thankfully, we all have different tastes, that's the great thing about watches.

I prefer the SDGM (apart from the crown).


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## Vlance (Apr 12, 2014)

I found this on eBay the other day, and was taken back by the price. I figured it must be justified, but it could really only be finishing and the diamond coating? Can anyone confirm if the crystal is even coated at all?


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## noenmon (Nov 19, 2013)

Yeah, the price should be much lower, so we can go back to complaining why everyone thinks Seiko watches are cheap.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Hrm... If I did not already have a watch box full of black dials on stainless steel bracelets, I would consider the SARX035 but it is not a slam dunk purchase. I do not know how I feel about the polished steel on the case where the bracelet end link butts up against it and had not noticed it in the original product shots. The chubby hands are also something I notice every time, maybe because they are over such a flat black dial. Is it overpriced? I do not think so but it is certainly not the great bargain and value that are the SARB065 and SARB033/035. I might be tempted if it shows up with a significant discount on Massdrop and it would have to be _very_ significant because I am in California and will have to pay the sales tax which will be a lot for this watch.



noenmon said:


> Yeah, the price should be much lower, so we can go back to complaining why everyone thinks Seiko watches are cheap.


Seiko's reputation for making cheap watches goes far beyond the price of one watch as it is a misconception based on a eurocentrism held by some watch snobs and lingering fallout from the so-called Quartz Crisis starting in the 1970s. In the unlikely event this watch can get mentioned in the same breath and with the same respect as lower-mid range Swiss automatics, I would be happy.


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## Dunelm (Aug 8, 2013)

Gerard Jones said:


> It's pricey, but the quality is there. But I've spent a long time looking at it and find the dial too expansive (large and plain), and the hands not to my taste (don't like the soft curve and extra long minute hand).


I feel much the same way. To me the design looks a bit 'over-inflated' to reach an overall width and it's ended up with a touch too much dial for my liking. I like long hands but I'm not keen on the curved edges.
I'll pass on this one and hold on to my money until maybe someday this search will once more return more than 0 results...


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## Babalu (Apr 11, 2016)

It's a really nice looking watch and it looks to be a huge upgrade to the SARB033 if the bracelet on it is as good as my Brightz chrono I had. A huge portion of the watches price is subjective anyway. If you love the watch, that's what really matters. Would you rather not have the watch you really want in order to buy something you don't really like because it was a "better deal"? There are no good deals on watches, they cost hundreds to thousands of dollars for a technology that went obsolete right around when the eight track did. There's no logic or sense in watch purchasing, it's purely an emotional purchase.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Babalu said:


> It's a really nice looking watch and it looks to be a huge upgrade to the SARB033 if the bracelet on it is as good as my Brightz chrono I had. A huge portion of the watches price is subjective anyway. If you love the watch, that's what really matters. Would you rather not have the watch you really want in order to buy something you don't really like because it was a "better deal"? There are no good deals on watches, they cost hundreds to thousands of dollars for a technology that went obsolete right around when the eight track did. There's no logic or sense in watch purchasing, it's purely an emotional purchase.


I completely disagree. Fortunately not everyone buys by looks only, even if many makers are there trying to fool people in buying crap for 100 times the production cost. It is instead very good to learn and understand what value really is, which is a fundamental element to rational purchasing.


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## Memento Vivere (Dec 31, 2011)

It is absolutely ridiculous to me how anyone could think these watches are overpriced. The quality and level of the finish alone is above and beyond anything you can get from a Swinese manufacturer for that kind of money, and you get an in house movement instead of an off the shelf Swiss movement that the company on the dial didn't make (ignoring that they didn't make the case either :-x). No brainer to me. Crazy to me that some people consider it overpriced, considering it's actually a bargain. 

It's almost like the embodiment of that stereotype that Seiko makes cheap watches that are supposed to be cheap, unless it's a Grand Seiko which gets away with it because you'd have to be mad to deny their level of quality. :roll:

The SARB is a cheap watch. A good watch? Yes. A classic? Yes. But it's a cheap watch. The SARX035 is the next level up. You have cheap $300-400 watches from Tissot/Hamilton/micros/etc with bone stock ETA2824's in them, then you have watches that are a step up in finish quality in the $700-800 range with the same movement. Why is it an issue when Seiko does the same thing? This even ignores the whole in-house aspect of the Seiko, which I understand some couldn't care less about, but it's still a relevant point of comparison.

Coming full circle: is the SARX035 "very overpriced?" No, it isn't. And I guarantee if Seiko didn't have that "Asian stigma," they could get away with charging double for the same watch, not that they would mind you, because I believe personally Seiko is one of the most honest watch companies in the watch world.


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## Babalu (Apr 11, 2016)

El @ said:


> I completely disagree. Fortunately not everyone buys by looks only, even if many makers are there trying to fool people in buying crap for 100 times the production cost. It is instead very good to learn and understand what value really is, which is a fundamental element to rational purchasing.


Obviously I'm not going to buy a piece of junk for $1,000 because it looks cool, but what you call fundamental elements to rational purchasing, I call it trying to quantify the un-quantifiable once you hit certain price points. In this case maybe the watch compared with other Seiko's is a little overpriced, but it's not so high priced that someone who loves it should go buy a SARB033 just because it's apparently a better deal and represents good value to some people.


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## Dunelm (Aug 8, 2013)

Vlance said:


> Can anyone confirm if the crystal is even coated at all?


Yes, both sides.
http://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/collections/en/comfotex


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## T6061 (Mar 20, 2012)

The yen isn't helping the conversation. I purchased the SDGM003 on June 22, 2015 from the Gobal Rakuten seller Seiko3s when the yen was around 123 per US dollar for 68,000 yen (discounted from a list price of 90,000 yen) which worked out to $552. At todays exchange rate that would be $612. Chino still offers the SDGM for $665 including EMS shipping. The SARX035 lists for another 10,800 yen more than the SDGM or just under $100 more at todays exchange rate. With the SARX035 just starting to be available there seems to be an early bird premium but with wider availability I'm hoping it will settle down a bit. Would not be surprised to see the SARX move closer to $700 before too long. If the yen were to weaken we could see it move below $700 and perhaps for many of us the value proposition would be more compelling.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Babalu said:


> There's no logic or sense in watch purchasing, it's purely an emotional purchase.


Counterpoint: I get pretty damn emotional half-way through a 12-pack of instant ramen because I am broke after having spent too much money on obsolete technology again.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Memento Vivere said:


> The SARB is a cheap watch. A good watch? Yes. A classic? Yes. But it's a cheap watch. The SARX035 is the next level up. You have cheap $300-400 watches from Tissot/Hamilton/micros/etc with bone stock ETA2824's in them, then you have watches that are a step up in finish quality in the $700-800 range with the same movement. Why is it an issue when Seiko does the same thing? This even ignores the whole in-house aspect of the Seiko, which I understand some couldn't care less about, but it's still a relevant point of comparison.
> 
> Coming full circle: is the SARX035 "very overpriced?"


I still disagree. This "next level up" in finishing, which consists of case hardening, AR coating, and non-micro-adjustable bracelet, but minus the excellent luming of the SARB, comes with a final price 2.65 times the "cheap watch". This price is dictated by marketing not industrial cost, and makes the "value" of the watch worse than a SARB033. And in the end, the movement is still a derivate of a 7S26.
The comparison had to be made Seiko Vs Seiko (or Orient, or Citizen). Swiss or other makers are irrelevant.


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## 7TSeven (Dec 26, 2015)

Please keep disgreeing, but I fail to understand why you keep ignoring the _fact_ that the level of craftmanship and refinement _is _higher in the Brightz and new SARX line. It is that, a fact. Again, have you ever handled one? If not, your opinion is purely based on pictures. And everybody in the watch world knows Seiko creates THE worst product pictures in history of marketing.

Please check out these presentations:

https://uhrforum.de/seiko-brightz-sdgm003-t212617
https://uhrforum.de/seiko-brightz-sdgm001-t231499

Compared to this:
https://uhrforum.de/klein-fein-doch-ganz-gross-seiko-sarb033-t244700 
(the wrist in the last picture is ~ 8,5")

The SARX is, at it´s current freshly released price point, a bargain. The Brightz is, at slightly over 500,-, downright cheap. The movement is the one reason you get them this reasonably priced. And of course the competition is relevant.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

7TSeven said:


> Please keep disgreeing, but I fail to understand why you keep ignoring the _fact_ that the level of craftmanship and refinement _is _higher in the Brightz and new SARX line. It is that, a fact.


Please keep your opinion, we're both entitled to have and express one.
Fact: The watch cost 2.65 times a SARB033 for having Diashield, AR coating, and non micro-adjustable bracelet, minus any lume.
Which in the opinion of mine and some other makes it overpriced. As simple as that.


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## Gerard Jones (Feb 27, 2015)

Gentlemen, here's the real deal; something becomes overpriced when you are not prepared to pay for it. But that does not make it overpriced for another person. 

I purchased an SDGM007. Many felt it was way overpriced. But it was within my budget at the time, and I wanted it. I don't care what value anyone else sees in it; I love it and feel it's one of my best purchases.

When quality/scarcity rises, so does the price. You can choose to pay for what you want, or settle for something a little cheaper that's still a great watch. That's one of the great things about Seiko.


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## Maithree (Jan 17, 2013)

El @ said:


> Please keep your opinion, we're both entitled to have and express one.
> Fact: The watch cost 2.65 times a SARB033 for having Diashield, AR coating, and non micro-adjustable bracelet, minus any lume.
> Which in the opinion of mine and some other makes it overpriced. As simple as that.


In addition, the bracelet on the SARX035 and for that matter the SDGM is far superior to the SARB. The finishing, the links, fit and it is also treated by comfotex, making the wearing well, a lot more comfortable. Particularly for it's weight.

The dial, hands and batons are finished better. The case is finished better than the SARB, and the SARB is already quite well finished (particularly for the prices) and has very pleasing contrast between polished and brushed surfaces.

The lack of micro adjustment is more down to style than it is cost.

Comfortex makes the wearing of the watch, for the weight really comfortable.

All of this makes a difference. A substantial difference. It depends if those differences are important to the buyer. For the money, once again there is very little that comes close, except from Citizen. Stowa makes good watches but the case finishing is not at the same level. Stowa cases are still good, but more one dimensional in terms of finishing.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Maithree said:


> The finishing, the links, fit and it is also treated by comfotex, making the wearing well, a lot more comfortable. Particularly for it's weight.
> 
> The dial, hands and batons are finished better. The case is finished better than the SARB, and the SARB is already quite well finished (particularly for the prices) and has very pleasing contrast between polished and brushed surfaces.
> 
> ...


I understand that Comfotex (and Comfotex Ti) are just marketing names to indicate the presence on both AR coating (SCC) and superficial hardening (Diashield). Weight saving is pertinent only to Titanium watches, which are not being discussed in this thread.
https://www.seiko-watch.co.jp/collections/en/comfotex/


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## 7TSeven (Dec 26, 2015)

I was about to write that, with half links, there is no need for micro adjustments. But I see that it´s handy for in the field adjustments. And that would be the point, where I really wish Seiko would lock up some engineers and have them construct something for quick adjustment in the means of Rolex Easy Link.

Anyway, in the spirit of Gerard post, let´s agree to disagree here. No hard feelings ( ^_^)y


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

7TSeven said:


> I was about to write that, with half links, there is no need for micro adjustments. But I see that it´s handy for in the field adjustments. And that would be the point, where I really wish Seiko would lock up some engineers and have them construct something for quick adjustment in the means of Rolex Easy Link.


I agree with that, and in fact neither the SARB (just two holes on the clasp 3mm apart), or the SARX (half-links 4mm) allow perfect adjustment for certain wrist sizes.
I've mentioned the feature just for completeness and to remark the differences. Certainly it does not subtract anything.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Hey, I reserve the right to claim anything is overpriced when I am unwilling to pay for features I think are only nominal improvements. Fifty-cents to add cheese to my burger?! That is a 10% price increase for an enhanced flavor and mouthfeel that does not justify the premium let alone the stomach aches and farts. Cheeseburgers are overpriced. Wait, bacon is only a dollar more? Pile it on, minimum wage warrior!

The SARX035 is not overpriced, _per se_, but it is out of my current price range for another black dial bracelet watch. As a lone consumer, I do not pretend to know enough about Seiko's pricing policy relative to their manufacturing process and costs. Is the build on the SARX035 worth the price? That is for each of us to decide for ourselves based on whatever criteria is important to the individual. I am just happy this watch, which was intended for the Japanese market, is available to me if I choose to spend the money for it.


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

El @ said:


> The comparison had to be made Seiko Vs Seiko (or Orient, or Citizen). Swiss or other makers are irrelevant.


May I ask you why do you see such distinction ?


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

v1triol said:


> May I ask you why do you see such distinction ?


Nevermind. If you think it's proper and meaningful to compare competitively-priced, efficiently produced Japanese watches with renowned Swiss brands, or micro-brands from anywhere, that's your right, go on and teach us again how the SARX035 is such a bargain compared to a 2982 or Myota 9015 watch.


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

Gerard Jones said:


> Gentlemen, here's the real deal; something becomes overpriced when you are not prepared to pay for it. But that does not make it overpriced for another person.
> 
> I purchased an SDGM007. Many felt it was way overpriced. But it was within my budget at the time, and I wanted it. I don't care what value anyone else sees in it; I love it and feel it's one of my best purchases.


Exactly. At the end of the day, the price charged is the price you pay. If you don't desire the watch enough to pay at that price, you can always wait and buy it from some flip-crazy watch collector on F29 for $100-to-$150 less. Or don't buy it at all if it doesn't appeal to you. Both sides of the discussion can get into the facts and merits. Ultimately, however, the desire for the watch (or lack thereof) is what determines whether you consider it priced right or not.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Sevenmack said:


> Exactly. At the end of the day, the price charged is the price you pay. If you don't desire the watch enough to pay at that price, you can always wait and buy it from some flip-crazy watch collector on F29 for $100-to-$150 less. Or don't buy it at all if it doesn't appeal to you. Both sides of the discussion can get into the facts and merits. Ultimately, however, the desire for the watch (or lack thereof) is what determines whether you consider it priced right or not.


Which is the same to say that since every purchase is ultimately a personal decision, a discussion on the facts and merits of the item is sterile and pointless. But if it is, why are you reading and participating it?


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

El @ said:


> Which is the same to say that since every purchase is ultimately a personal decision, a discussion on the facts and merits of the item is sterile and pointless. But if it is, why are you reading and participating it?


...or he means to remind us to qualify our own determination of whether or not it is overpriced based on the criteria that is important to us individually, giving others reading and participating a point of reference, hence answering the original question.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> ...or he means to remind us to qualify our own determination of whether or not it is overpriced based on the criteria that is important to us individually, giving others reading and participating a point of reference, hence answering the original question.


Great. So, same question to you, why are your reading and participating, if the answer is known and obvious from the onset?


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

El @ said:


> Mr. James Duffy said:
> 
> 
> > ...or he means to remind us to qualify our own determination of whether or not it is overpriced based on the criteria that is important to us individually, giving others reading and participating a point of reference, hence answering the original question.
> ...


Well the complete answer is complex and delves into my loneliness and need to fill the void in my life with consumer goods and its related community. Also, we were asked and like the OP, gave proper context to how I came to an opinion that differs from his.



Adman said:


> Is it just me or does anyone else think this is a bit over the top price wise?


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## Gerard Jones (Feb 27, 2015)

So, do we have any Seiko employees here? I'd be interested to hear from the horse's mouth what causes price increases, but I doubt very much that more than 10-percent of any rise is purely because they feel they can 'get away with it'.

I have no insider knowledge, but having run a business targeting consumers, I would not be surprised to hear that a large dollop of the rise is linked to increased manufacturing costs beyond what the blurb sells. For instance, if they have decided to implement a design that involves new tooling and/or more stages... this adds to the cost. And if they have decided to increase quality control by a margin of 'x', that too will pump costs (possibly by a vast amount).

Plus they have to pay for all these boutiques in the West so we can go fondle the merch'.


Blaa Blaa Blaa. It all adds up.


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

El @ said:


> Which is the same to say that since every purchase is ultimately a personal decision, a discussion on the facts and merits of the item is sterile and pointless. But if it is, why are you reading and participating it?


Because I'm a watch collector and enjoy discussions about trivial matters. Which describes nearly every watch collector -- and everyone on Watchuseek.

Also, because the point needs to be made. Everyone has their own opinions on pricing, and that is fine. But we all need to occasionally remind ourselves that subjective opinions on pricing are both not objective and hardly fact.

Now, you may write that this is obvious. But if the obvious was exactly that, then no one would be arguing about it. It isn't obvious to everyone that views on pricing are subjective. In the real world, few things are obvious.


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## Tickstart (Oct 30, 2015)

hooliganjrs said:


> better than a 7S26


That's an oxymoron.


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## JMart (Apr 12, 2016)

This thread made it harder for me to decide between a SARB033 or SDGM003, or the wait for the pirce on the SARX035 to regulate. The Cocktail Time is still in the mix. I guess I have more soul searching to do.


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

El @ said:


> Nevermind. If you think it's proper and meaningful to compare competitively-priced, efficiently produced Japanese watches with renowned Swiss brands, or micro-brands from anywhere, that's your right, go on and teach us again how the SARX035 is such a bargain compared to a 2982 or Myota 9015 watch.


You must be mixing some members, as I was never referring to ETA or Miyota, but agree for one point - nevermind.


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## Maithree (Jan 17, 2013)

JMart said:


> This thread made it harder for me to decide between a SARB033 or SDGM003, or the wait for the pirce on the SARX035 to regulate. The Cocktail Time is still in the mix. I guess I have more soul searching to do.


Buy that one that you are most attracted to aesthetically. They are all good watches, I doubt that any of those watches would disappoint.


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

El @ said:


> Nevermind. If you think it's proper and meaningful to compare competitively-priced, efficiently produced Japanese watches with renowned Swiss brands, or micro-brands from anywhere, that's your right, go on and teach us again how the SARX035 is such a bargain compared to a 2982 or Myota 9015 watch.


For one, V1triol didn't mention any of those watches or movements. You did. He merely asked why do you think that Seiko's offering can be compared to Citizen and Orient, and not to Swiss brands. From where I sit, that's a good question that you never answered. You don't have to, of course, but don't be surprised that someone points it out.

Secondly: If he did and thought that the SARX035 is a bargain compared to other brands, he has a right to do so, and you have a right to disagree. Simple as that. No justification will matter on either side because this is a matter of preference driven by whatever each of you considers to be important. It's not as if we are talking about any objectively-measured differences in how each of the watches and their movements measure time.


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## Atkinson (Apr 24, 2010)

JMart said:


> This thread made it harder for me to decide between a SARB033 or SDGM003, or the wait for the pirce on the SARX035 to regulate. The Cocktail Time is still in the mix. I guess I have more soul searching to do.


I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a new piece. I was seriously considering the SARB035 at about 335 on Amazon. I also love the Cocktail Time but maybe too dressy for me. My last two purchases were Seiko's, so I know the quality will be excellent.

When I saw the SARX033 with the blue hands I thought I had found my watch, but the price is giving me some pause. I agree the price feels too high, but is it only because of the much lower price of the SARB033/035? I've been looking at some Swatch group brands, like Mido and Rado (at fairly steep discounts) and they make the SARX035 seem very reasonable.


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## midwing (Dec 9, 2013)

Hi, I got my SARX033 today and I'm very pleased. The dial and the whole watch is fantastic and I must admit I was a bit sceptic to The blue hands, but in reality its a very good combination.


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## midwing (Dec 9, 2013)

View attachment DSC_8365.jpg


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## 7TSeven (Dec 26, 2015)

Awesome shot :-!


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## dr_tyler (Oct 30, 2014)

I have been wearing the SARX035 for a day now. It cost me a little over a grand CAD. Buying from Seiya, who prints very legibly in english on the shipping label, landed me a nice $197 customs fee (which I have not had in the past with Chino) so I have intimately felt the full price of this watch. I will share some reflections that I think pertain to the subject of this thread. 

Wow, does this watch ever pop. The eye is instantly drawn to the dial which is incredibly legible thanks to a crystal which is clearly double AR coated. The first watch that I own with this feature, really quite something. Indicies are highly intricate in a way that techinically difficult to describe. You can see in midwings photo that they are suspended above the dial. They central part is finely ribbed like the top of some shotgun barrels. They are perfectly aligned with the minute markers. 

I wear my watches on bracelets 90% of the time so this was a big factor in my purhcase. The SARX does not dissappoint. I will compare to the SARB035. IMO the sarb has a bland bracelet, I think the softened edges make it look cheap, the clasp has an unslightly gap on the 6 o'clock side, the end links do not match the case and spring bars in the clasp creak and crackle when tension is applied. I would say the opposite for the SARX on all of these points. It is solid and hefty. The way the medial aspect of the lugs slope inward to meet end links give you the impression that the case and the bracelet were designed for each other. Each link has 5 separate peices which you will note are not fused together when you are adjusting it. The 2nd and 4th peices are highly polished which gives it a very flashy look that some people may dislike but I think really add to the overall look of the watch. Personally, I wish the links were a little more flexible so that when the watch is laid on a table the caseback would rest flat on the ground. 

I have to comment on the movement. The rotar is noisy and the beat rate not fast. It has gained about 11 seconds in the last 20 hours (I did not wear in while sleeping). These are all pretty major drawbacks when compared to the ETA in my Omega. 

Pictures of this watch do not do it justice. The overall package feels very refined. I would say it feels like wearing the Tag Carrera 5 I have tried on and lusted after before. I only own one luxury watch (Omega 2531.80 Seamaster) and have come to appreciate that when you spend a few grand on a watch the difference is in the details. I do not think the SARX is on the same level as my Omega but it takes substantial steps towards it when compared to my SARB. The major drawback when compared to higher end peices is the movement and I am not the first one to say this. I think the watch is fairly priced. If they put a better movement in it they could charge more. But then who would buy a Grand Seiko? 

Hope this was helpful.


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## pharmacon (Jan 19, 2015)

The hands are colored thermally or just lacquered?


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

pharmacon said:


> The hands are colored thermally or just lacquered?


The hands are tempered to create the blued finish.


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## pharmacon (Jan 19, 2015)

Are you sure about that? Is it in any specifications? In sdgm001 the second hand was painted.


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

dr_tyler said:


> I have been wearing the SARX035 for a day now. It cost me a little over a grand CAD. Buying from Seiya, who prints very legibly in english on the shipping label, landed me a nice $197 customs fee (which I have not had in the past with Chino) so I have intimately felt the full price of this watch. I will share some reflections that I think pertain to the subject of this thread.
> 
> Wow, does this watch ever pop. The eye is instantly drawn to the dial which is incredibly legible thanks to a crystal which is clearly double AR coated. The first watch that I own with this feature, really quite something. Indicies are highly intricate in a way that techinically difficult to describe. You can see in midwings photo that they are suspended above the dial. They central part is finely ribbed like the top of some shotgun barrels. They are perfectly aligned with the minute markers.
> 
> ...


Good overview and comparison to the SARB033. As a fellow Canuck that Customs charge pisses me off greatly.


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

lxnastynotch93 said:


> The hands are tempered to create the blued finish.


Are you certain they are heat-blued? From the photos I have seen they appear laquered, with telltale (color aside) being how they get lighter at the edge. Truly heat blued hands are more subdued and uniformly blue.


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## Petrolicious88 (Jan 4, 2016)

Seiko needs to rename these watches. The word Presage is not the name you want for a watch or anything else.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Petrolicious88 said:


> Seiko needs to rename these watches. The word Presage is not the name you want for a watch or anything else.


Maybe in your culture, but not necessarily in their, actually not even in mine.
And they keep the Tsunami logo, something that cause tens of thousands od deaths just recently, go figure.


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## Vlance (Apr 12, 2014)

mitchjrj said:


> Are you certain they are heat-blued? From the photos I have seen they appear laquered, with telltale (color aside) being how they get lighter at the edge. Truly heat blued hands are more subdued and uniformly blue.


Go watch the video on YouTube and decide for yourself.


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## malach ra (Sep 29, 2012)

Damn, these things are nice. Wish they had a better movement to match the finishing of the watch, but tben that would mean it would cost way more. I dont think they are overpriced at all as it stands right now.

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

I'd rather pay half the price for a Sarb. The finishing is better but for double the price of a SARB, I'd need to see a better movement.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

chillwill120 said:


> I'd rather pay half the price for a Sarb. The finishing is better but for double the price of a SARB, I'd need to see a better movement.


Not double the price. 2.85 times as much. 30,240 Vs 86,400 (yen)


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

chillwill120 said:


> I'd rather pay half the price for a Sarb. The finishing is better but for double the price of a SARB, I'd need to see a better movement.


Or spend the same money on a SARW with the 33% higher-beat 6R2x movement, maybe even something with an Urushi or Enamelled dial. All of these would be more attainable, ironically making them less available, if and when the Japanese Yen finally weakens.


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## Alastor (Sep 6, 2012)

I agree, it's very expensive for such a plain looking watch. Admittedly though I'm not a complete WIS and don't notice things like coatings, finishes, and movements. I just like looking at watch faces.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> Or spend the same money on a SARW with the 33% higher-beat 6R2x movement, maybe even something with an Urushi or Enamelled dial. All of these would be more attainable, ironically making them less available, if and when the Japanese Yen finally weakens.


Sounds like much better bang per buck. I'm not a fan of the 6R15 but I make an exception for the Alpinist because it's so beautiful and awesome for the price. But close to $1k for a 6R15? Not happening.


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## Pachoe (Sep 26, 2007)

pharmacon said:


> Are you sure about that? Is it in any specifications? In sdgm001 the second hand was painted.


I think the second hand on SDGM001 is not painted;

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## bubbleback30 (Jul 31, 2014)

IMHO and obseravtions, Seiko have segmented its 6R15 / 6R2X series as a mid-tier workhorse mechanical watch over the 5-years. By offering selected premium models in enamel or urushi dial; price escalated 30% above basic 6R models. 

In brief, for a Seiko collector who adore classic design & fine finishing of 6R model, you might want to consider acquiring one in used condition (G9 is not difficult to find) ... 

Nevertheless, imo, although Seiko 6R movements are proven robust & workhorse caliber BUT it should not be market as a high-grade mechanical movt in view of its mass production using high tech machinery for assembly ...


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

bubbleback30 said:


> IMHO and obseravtions, Seiko have segmented its 6R15 / 6R2X series as a mid-tier workhorse mechanical watch over the 5-years. By offering selected premium models in enamel or urushi dial; price escalated 30% above basic 6R models.
> 
> In brief, for a Seiko collector who adore classic design & fine finishing of 6R model, you might want to consider acquiring one in used condition (G9 is not difficult to find) ...
> 
> Nevertheless, imo, although Seiko 6R movements are proven robust & workhorse caliber BUT it should not be market as a high-grade mechanical movt in view of its mass production using high tech machinery for assembly ...


I agree, mostly. While there are a few Grand Seiko models I like, I still prefer the designs of the more expensive 6R movement models. Sure the build and finish are not as refined but being half the cost of a GS, I can be less precious with it and enjoy its other qualities that I might prefer over a GS. In terms of cost-benefit, it could be analogous to the comparison of the SARX035 and the SARB033 (or even the SARY line). In the end, we buy what we like, based on whatever criteria, amongst what we can afford and we can choose what premium features we deem worth spending more for no matter what movement is under the hood.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

Saw a Seiko 5 today that looks a lot like the SARX here and the black SARB (033, right?). I didn't take any pics -- I was stopping by the shop to talk with a friend -- but I think it was this model:
SEIKO 5 Finder - SNKM47 Automatic Watch

I'd love to get four price levels of this same design in my hand at once just to see what I'd be getting for the extra money. Somehow, I think I'd be willing to pony up the cash.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

BarracksSi said:


> Saw a Seiko 5 today that looks a lot like the SARX here and the black SARB (033, right?). I didn't take any pics -- I was stopping by the shop to talk with a friend -- but I think it was this model:
> SEIKO 5 Finder - SNKM47 Automatic Watch
> 
> I'd love to get four price levels of this same design in my hand at once just to see what I'd be getting for the extra money. Somehow, I think I'd be willing to pony up the cash.


Ah yes, the Seiko 5 "Son of SARB." I was considering the sub-$100 USD Seiko Solar SNE039 ("Sun of SARB") which has lugs that remind me of the lugs on the SARX035.


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## 3th3r (Jul 20, 2011)

The main complaint against the cost seems to be the use of the 6r15. Well then, how would the same complaintnants feel about the cost if the movement was an ETA 2824?


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## 7TSeven (Dec 26, 2015)

"I´m getting a Skoda Fabia with 1.9 TDI. I like the Audi A6, but it´s too expensive, since I get the same engine much much cheaper in the Fabia." Same argument.


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## Adman (May 11, 2010)

There is also this one, the SRP703K. Automatic and 42mm but with non-solid end links, Hardlex glass and a 4R35 movement. Great value but ever so slightly too big at 42mm?


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

3th3r said:


> The main complaint against the cost seems to be the use of the 6r15. Well then, how would the same complaintnants feel about the cost if the movement was an ETA 2824?


I would feel much better about the cost if the movement was ETA 2824, especially a higher grade or chronometer grade.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

chillwill120 said:


> I would feel much better about the cost if the movement was ETA 2824, especially a higher grade or chronometer grade.


A similar watch w/ 2824 high grade would cost $ 1,500 - 2,000 not $900.


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## Richard- (Jan 1, 2011)

El @ said:


> A 2824 high grade would have a similar watch cost $2,000 not 900.


I think a lot of guys are getting spoiled with ETA 2824's and Miyota 9015's in their lower priced micro brand watches and automatically pit them against Seiko's 6R15. They disregard that if the movement was put in the equivalent Swiss watch it would cost much more.

The 6R15 bashing threads are becoming as numerous now as the SKX is discontinued threads.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

The core tenet of Seiko, imo, is durability and longer service intervals (if at all). How many people would actually service an ETA 2824 in a sub-$1000 watch? 
Not sure what the score is for the 6r15 vs 2824 if durability and service interval is included in the metric.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

El @ said:


> A similar watch w/ 2824 high grade would cost $ 1,500 - 2,000 not $900.


Ok, but that doesn't change my answer to the question:

The main complaint against the cost seems to be the use of the 6r15. Well then, how would the same complaintnants feel about the cost if the movement was an ETA 2824?

My answer is still that I would feel better about the ETA 2824, even a base version, and if it was a higher grade, even better.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

Richard- said:


> I think a lot of guys are getting spoiled with ETA 2824's and Miyota 9015's in their lower priced micro brand watches and automatically pit them against Seiko's 6R15. They disregard that if the *movement *was put in the equivalent Swiss watch it would cost much more.
> 
> The 6R15 bashing threads are becoming as numerous now as the SKX is discontinued threads.


Which one? The 6r15? If the answer is yes, I'm going to have to disagree with your statement. If Hamilton and Steinhart can sell watches with the 2824 for $300 - $500, why would a Swiss watch with a Swiss version of the 6r15 cost so much? Also, I think Seiko deserves some criticism for it's use of the 6r15 in watches that are higher end and costing around $1000. The 6r15 is by no means a bad movement and it makes sense to have it in a $300 Sarb. Just like the 7s26 movement, while not refined or pretty, is perfectly acceptable in an inexpensive tool watch like the SKX. But if Seiko wants to sell watches for $1k, I need to see something nicer, like what you find in the MM300. If these beautifully finished watches had an nh35 or 4r36 movement, people would be up in arms. But I have a hard time seeing how the 6r15 is superior to the aforementioned.


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## Richard- (Jan 1, 2011)

chillwill120 said:


> Which one? The 6r15? If the answer is yes, I'm going to have to disagree with your statement. If Hamilton and Steinhart can sell watches with the 2824 for $300 - $500, why would a Swiss watch with a Swiss version of the 6r15 cost so much?


The Sumo can be had for about $450 show me the equivalent Hamilton or Steinhart with a 2824 where the case work is as near or as good as a Sumo. If any of the bigger Swiss companies were to use the same case finishing that is on a higher priced Seiko with a 6R15 it would be priced higher. Also the only watch that Seiko sells for around 1K with a 6R15 is the new Transocean models.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

Richard- said:


> The Sumo can be had for about $450 show me the equivalent Hamilton or Steinhart with a 2824 where the case work is as near or as good as a Sumo. If any of the bigger Swiss companies were to use the same case finishing that is on a higher priced Seiko with a 6R15 it would be priced higher. Also the only watch that Seiko sells for around 1K with a 6R15 is the new Transocean models.


1. *The Sumo can be had for about $450 show me the equivalent Hamilton or Steinhart with a 2824 where the case work is as near or as good as a Sumo.* The Sumo has some nice curves in the lugs and is nicely finished, but is the polishing, brushing, finishing and fit so vastly superior than a Khaki? I haven't handled a Sumo, but my Sarbs seem on par with my old Khaki.

2. *If any of the bigger Swiss companies were to use the same case finishing that is on a higher priced Seiko with a 6R15 it would be priced higher.
*I don't know a ton about mid-tier Swiss brands, but I know that I could buy a really nice watch like a Sinn 104 or a Hamilton Pan Europ in the $900 range. If these same brands came out with similar watches that were the same (or higher) priced and were slightly better finished (which is debatable), but had a movement with a lower beat, slow date change, and less precision/accuracy, I think most consumers would stick with the 2824.

3.* Also the only watch that Seiko sells for around 1K with a 6R15 is the new Transocean models. Isn't the Sarx about $900?*


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## Richard- (Jan 1, 2011)

I owned the Khaki field, Steinhart OVM and the Vintage gmt and honestly the Sumo is a better finished watch. If I was asked to choose which movement was better I would say the 2824, but the better watch is the Sumo.

The SARX003 can be had for $760 from Seiya and the SARX019 with enameled dial is only $660. I think one of the Brightz models might be about $900 but not too familiar that range. 

Seiko is missing a movement that should sit just above the 6R15 but I am not sure I need it or if I would pay extra for it.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

Richard- said:


> I owned the Khaki field, Steinhart OVM and the Vintage gmt and honestly the Sumo is a better finished watch. If I was asked to choose which movement was better I would say the 2824, but the better watch is the Sumo.
> 
> The SARX003 can be had for $760 from Seiya and the SARX019 with enameled dial is only $660. I think one of the Brightz models might be about $900 but not too familiar that range.
> 
> Seiko is missing a movement that should sit just above the 6R15 but I am not sure I need it or if I would pay extra for it.


Out of the Khaki, Sumo, and Steinhart, I've only ever handled the Khaki, so I'll take your word for it. I agree Seiko needs something above the 6r15 and if they put that into a nicely finished field watch with a screw down crown - I'd be the first one to buy it.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

One can put this whole debate to rest, or just give it a timeout, by getting a Hamilton Intra-matic with the solid ETA 2892-2 under the hood that beats at 28000 bph (like Seiko's 6R2x movement) but you will be forced to not care about that because it does not have a sweep hand. Oh, it has an MSRP of under $1000 USD and right now it happens to be on sale everywhere for 40% off before any additional discounting and rebates.

Hamilton Intra-Matic Silver Dial Leather Men's Watch H38455751 - American Classic - Hamilton - Shop Watches by Brand - Jomashop
Hamilton Intra-Matic Mens Watch H38455751


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## bubbleback30 (Jul 31, 2014)

Hi Guys,

Seiko Do have a high grade mechanical caliber ** above 6R & below GS, i.e. the unregulated GS movt version which is the current 8L available ONLY in Diver MasterMarine series ...

** Not forgetting back in 1995~2005, Seiko used to roll out 4L & 8L movt for a limited run series of dress watch models available in SARA (4L), SAGL (8L), Seiko Credor 4L75 and Phoenix 8L ... ...

IMO, from Seiko perspective, they will not to re-launch 4L dress watches using "Seiko" branding. For Seiko lovers who adore high grade 4L dress watch, the only option is CREDOR ... (Sadly, it's price is way too expensive matching the price of a GS 9S for a mid-income salary collector)!

by Danell


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## Gerard Jones (Feb 27, 2015)

And let's not forget the 8L38 SARLxxx...


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

Gents, the 6R15 is a reliable and fairly accurate movement. Could it be better decorated? Yes it could. Then the watch would cost a few hundred more and there'd be a million threads about how Seiko is getting away from their roots by not offering an affordable watch etc.

So I'll take a slightly less decorated movement in better finished case and dial any day. I'm not going to be looking at the movement all day, I'm going to be looking at the case and dial.

If you want a highly decorated movement then buy a Grand Seiko. That's why they're offered at their respective price point.


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## Petrolicious88 (Jan 4, 2016)

Can we please see more wrist shot of this beauty.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Petrolicious88 said:


> Can we please see more wrist shot of this beauty.


Due to the price and how new it is as of this post, it just has not made it to the wrists of many here yet but I suspect it will show up on WRUW threads regularly by the end of the year. The Japanese Yen has been its strongest it has been in a year versus the US Dollar since the Seiko SARX033/035 was released. This is coming down from a 10-year low just 10 months ago (I think). If the Yen weakens back to those levels, the watch will be around $600 USD.

Massdrop seems to like JDM Seikos so I am sure they are trying to secure a volume discount on the new SARX and I would not be surprised if it was made a Black Friday drop or for the holidays.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

lxnastynotch93 said:


> Gents, the 6R15 is a reliable and fairly accurate movement. Could it be better decorated? Yes it could. Then the watch would cost a few hundred more and there'd be a million threads about how Seiko is getting away from their roots by not offering an affordable watch etc.
> 
> So I'll take a slightly less decorated movement in better finished case and dial any day. I'm not going to be looking at the movement all day, I'm going to be looking at the case and dial.
> 
> If you want a highly decorated movement then buy a Grand Seiko. That's why they're offered at their respective price point.


It's not a matter of decoration but fundamental design. In the end the 6R15 is derived from the 7002 which was a thick entry level movements of 30 years ago. It gained hack, handwind, power reserve but all the rest remained the same. Good for a watch up to 6 ot 7 hundreds dollars. The SARX033 and Shogun are already a bit too expensive for the movement. If one doesn't care about the movement can as well buy quartz that are always accurate and don't stop when left aside.

As mentioned above and in other thread Seiko simply does not have an alternative / better movement.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Sure, if all other things are equal when comparing watches, I would prefer a "better" movement but I do not wear movements, I wear watches of which the movement is one of many parts, albeit the most cruicial to a watch's function. Still I can see where everyone is coming from on this.

Again, I purchase as much for exterior design as I do for the internal function. And as I have said before, price and value are relative to different things and to different people. When the low-end Urushi and Enamelled Dial watches were sub-$600 USD last summer due to a favorable exchange rate, they were a great value and I would not call them overpriced. The new SARXs are subject to the same conditions.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> Sure, if all other things are equal when comparing watches, I would prefer a "better" movement b*ut I do not wear movements, I wear watches *of which the movement is one of many parts, albeit the most cruicial to a watch's function. Still I can see where everyone is coming from on this.
> 
> Again, I purchase as much for exterior design as I do for the internal function. And as I have said before, price and value are relative to different things and to different people. When the low-end Urushi and Enamelled Dial watches were sub-$600 USD last summer due to a favorable exchange rate, they were a great value and I would not call them overpriced. The new SARXs are subject to the same conditions.


But most WIS care about movement a lot, otherwise we'd be wearing lots of quartz fashion watches.


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## Gerard Jones (Feb 27, 2015)

Reading his full post, it's clear Mr.JD cares about movement quality too.


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## Steven Davison (Feb 19, 2006)

Comment deleted - it attached to wrong comment.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> One can put this whole debate to rest, or just give it a timeout, by getting a Hamilton Intra-matic with the solid ETA 2892-2 under the hood that beats at 28000 bph (like Seiko's 6R2x movement) but you will be forced to not care about that because it does not have a sweep hand. Oh, it has an MSRP of under $1000 USD and right now it happens to be on sale everywhere for 40% off before any additional discounting and rebates.


Its not clear that the 2892 is better than the 2824. See: ETA 2824 vs 2892
The trade off is between robustness and thickness. Its a similar trade off for the 6r15 versus the 2824, with the 6r15 being thicker and arguably more robust for multiple reasons, not least because of the well-known hand-winding issue.

People also forget that the "humble" ETA 2824 can be found in $2,000-$10,000 watches (see Tudor, Tag, Ochs and Junior).


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

KtWUS said:


> Mr. James Duffy said:
> 
> 
> > One can put this whole debate to rest, or just give it a timeout, by getting a Hamilton Intra-matic with the solid ETA 2892-2 under the hood that beats at 28000 bph (like Seiko's 6R2x movement) but you will be forced to not care about that because it does not have a sweep hand. Oh, it has an MSRP of under $1000 USD and right now it happens to be on sale everywhere for 40% off before any additional discounting and rebates
> ...


Oh I know. I was just trying to steer the discussion and try to pretend the lack of a sweep hand on the Intra-matic is somehow a good thing. Wait, there's a well-known hand-winding issue? That I didn't know.


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

chillwill120 said:


> But most WIS care about movement a lot, otherwise we'd be wearing lots of quartz fashion watches.


Not really. Collectors _talk _about movements. But when it comes down to it, movement _matters much less_ than brand. A Rolex movement is nothing special in terms of decoration (outside of some rhodium plating), though it keeps good time for a mechanical; but people buy Rolex because it is the best-known and most-prestigious watch brand in the world. This goes, one way or another, for Omega, for Seiko and for other brands.

As far as I'm concerned, people should buy the watch and not the brand. But most casual watch buyers buy the brand, even if it is Michael Kors. And collectors aren't much different.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

Sevenmack said:


> As far as I'm concerned, people should buy the watch and not the brand.


I want to do exactly this, but my practical side wants to know if the brand will stand behind their work when it comes to service and repair.

It's a little different from buying something just for the badge on the dial (or grille, or h-a-n-d-bag strap), but sometimes it feels like it's really the same idea.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Back on topic, I do not think the new SARX035 are _very_ overpriced but they are pushing the limits of affordability and value for me. If I did not already have a watch box full of black dial watches on bracelets that I really like, I might think differently and see it as possibly the definitive model of this particular style and deem it quite a good buy even with a 6R15 movement which I have gladly paid the same money for already.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> Oh I know. I was just trying to steer the discussion and try to pretend the lack of a sweep hand on the Intra-matic is somehow a good thing. Wait, there's a well-known hand-winding issue? That I didn't know.


Apparently hand-winding the 2824 too often destroys the movement: https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/f6-2824-handwinding-thread-866942.html


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

BarracksSi said:


> I want to do exactly this, but my practical side wants to know if the brand will stand behind their work when it comes to service and repair.


I get that. But the reality is that brands can be inconsistent on that, even the best ones. We have read more than a few stories about Seiko rejecting requests to fix Kinetics and there are plenty of complaints even about Omega.

From where I sit, I don't know if a brand will stand by its wares until _I have to find out_. I know Swarovski will back its no-questions-asked replacement guarantee because I had to get a Christmas ornament replaced. I can't say that for a lot of other brands because the items I own still work. When it doesn't, it's usually at end of useful life and I was going to replace it anyway. So I buy the product, be it the watch, the cuff links, and the like.


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## osmin (Jun 9, 2012)

Compared to the SDGM003 it is expensive. 
I was so blown away by the Quality of the SDGM so I bought another one just now. I also like the design better.
But maybe the SARX is not expensive, the SDGM is too Cheap


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

Sevenmack said:


> Not really. Collectors _talk _about movements. But when it comes down to it, movement _matters much less_ than brand. A Rolex movement is nothing special in terms of decoration (outside of some rhodium plating), though it keeps good time for a mechanical; but people buy Rolex because it is the best-known and most-prestigious watch brand in the world. This goes, one way or another, for Omega, for Seiko and for other brands.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, people should buy the watch and not the brand. But most casual watch buyers buy the brand, even if it is Michael Kors. And collectors aren't much different.


I'm not talking about casual watch buyers. I said WIS care about movements and I stand by that. That is why we are having this whole discussion. There are plenty of very nice looking quartz watches that WIS would never consider due to the pedestrian quartz movement. Throw in an ETA or Miyota in there and suddenly it becomes the darling of the forum. I'm sure I speak for many WIS when I say that the movement is one of the most important factors when purchasing a watch, especially if it's an expensive one. Is it robust? Easy/inexpensive to service? Accurate? Easy to source parts? Precise? etc. These are all serious considerations. From the perspective of most WIS, brand and movement are probably equally important.

As a side note, a Rolex movement is not special when it comes to decoration, but it is probably the best movement when it comes to balancing robustness, performance, accuracy and looks. Rolex is way overpriced but let's not pretend that the ONLY reason people like them is because of the prestige, they are also great watches.


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## Gerard Jones (Feb 27, 2015)

Seiko SARX035- beautiful but very overpriced?

The answer to this is... yes, it's beautiful, but not as beautiful as it could be, and yes, it is currently overpriced, but not very. 

Well, I think that about sums it up. Shall we all go for a beer?


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

Gerard Jones said:


> Well, I think that about sums it up. Shall we all go for a beer?


I hope you're not suggesting _overpriced_ beer.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

chillwill120 said:


> I'm not talking about casual watch buyers. I said WIS care about movements and I stand by that. That is why we are having this whole discussion. There are plenty of very nice looking quartz watches that WIS would never consider due to the pedestrian quartz movement. Throw in an ETA or Miyota in there and suddenly it becomes the darling of the forum. I'm sure I speak for many WIS when I say that the movement is one of the most important factors when purchasing a watch, especially if it's an expensive one. Is it robust? Easy/inexpensive to service? Accurate? Easy to source parts? Precise? etc. These are all serious considerations. From the perspective of most WIS, brand and movement are probably equally important.


I do not think you are wrong. I have taken the movement into consideration and I don't pretend to speak for any WIS other than myself. If anyone is suggesting I am not giving the movement enough consideration in determining value, so be it. Call me Reinhold but who am I to judge a person on how they judge me on how I judge the value of a watch?


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## oak1971 (Aug 19, 2013)

It's worth what they can sell them for. Read Adam Smith.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> I do not think you are wrong. I have taken the movement into consideration and I don't pretend to speak for any WIS other than myself. If anyone is suggesting I am not giving the movement enough consideration in determining value, so be it. Call me Reinhold but who am I to judge a person on how they judge me on how I judge the value of a watch?


I don't mean to imply that you don't take movement into consideration; you clearly made statements to the contrary. Obviously people are free to value the movement, brand, looks etc. as much or as little as they want; there is no wrong approach to this ridiculous hobby. I just don't think it's true to say that WIS care about brand and only like talking about movements as Sevenmack stated.


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## Pachoe (Sep 26, 2007)

Found this video helpful with this topic 





Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

chillwill120 said:


> I'm not talking about casual watch buyers. I said WIS care about movements and I stand by that. That is why we are having this whole discussion. There are plenty of very nice looking quartz watches that WIS would never consider due to the pedestrian quartz movement. Throw in an ETA or Miyota in there and suddenly it becomes the darling of the forum.


Again, watch collectors say they care about movement. That's not what many truly care about. Otherwise quartz movements, which are far more-accurate than mechanicals by at least a nine-fold, would not be dismissed by many of them. In fact, they would be just as concerned about thermocompensation, GPS modules, and other technical aspects of quartz, all of which are fascinating for those of us collectors who care as much about the technology of horology as we do about the craftsmanship and art.

For many collectors, the reality is that they are in the hobby as a retreat from technology. In that light, quartz is verboten. So, of course, an ETA or Miyota is favored. A Sea-Gull or Dixmont would be favored, too. Because for many collectors, the thing isn't so much the movement as it is the ability to not own a watch with that dreaded new-fangled technology. Neo-luddism on a wrist.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

I like the idea of having a collection representing a lot of different movements, not just the supposed best (that I could currently afford). The new SARXs just would not add anything new to my lineup so I am not as enthusiastic about them as others might be.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

Sevenmack said:


> Again, watch collectors say they care about movement. That's not what many truly care about. Otherwise quartz movements, which are far more-accurate than mechanicals by at least a nine-fold, would not be dismissed by many of them. In fact, they would be just as concerned about thermocompensation, GPS modules, and other technical aspects of quartz, all of which are fascinating for those of us collectors who care as much about the technology of horology as we do about the craftsmanship and art.
> 
> For many collectors, the reality is that they are in the hobby as a retreat from technology. In that light, quartz is verboten. So, of course, an ETA or Miyota is favored. A Sea-Gull or Dixmont would be favored, too. Because for many collectors, the thing isn't so much the movement as it is the ability to not own a watch with that dreaded new-fangled technology. Neo-luddism on a wrist.


That doesn't make sense. Your own posts is an argument in my favor. You've presented the following arguments to support your thesis that watch collectors don't care about movements: i) Rolex sells well despite an undecorated movement; ii) mechanical movements are favored over quartz movements notwithstanding the far superior accuracy of quartz. These points do not prove that WIS do not care about movements; instead, it shows that many WIS do not care about decorated movements or quartz accuracy. Speaking personally, I do not care about the decoration of a movement if I'm not buying a haute horologie piece, and I don't care about quartz accuracy as I'm not a Navy Seal. However, I DO care about a movement's robustness, longevity, and ease/cost of servicing. I may not care about what YOU personally think matters in a movement, but I do care about what I value in movements. Everyone values different things in a watch and that's fine. But many watch nuts argue the pros and cons of different movements all day and it is a heavy consideration when buying a watch.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

oak1971 said:


> It's worth what they can sell them for. Read Adam Smith.


Sure, but the definition of overpriced is different from worth. And we're discussing the first not the second.


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

chillwill120 said:


> That doesn't make sense. Your own posts is an argument in my favor. You've presented the following arguments to support your thesis that watch collectors don't care about movements: i) Rolex sells well despite an undecorated movement; ii) mechanical movements are favored over quartz movements notwithstanding the far superior accuracy of quartz. These points do not prove that WIS do not care about movements; instead, it shows that many WIS do not care about decorated movements or quartz accuracy.


Yet again, if watch collectors truly cared about movements, they would spend as much time discussing quartz movements as they do mechanicals. If you care about how a watch works, then you have to first care about what powers it, especially when you have to deal with the day-to-day reality of telling time, which is what a watch is supposed to do. That the preference of many is for mechanicals that are objectively less-accurate than either quartz or NTP options (smartwatches) is a reminder that movement is merely a secondary concern. Especially since the main goal for many watch collectors is to retreat from modern technology.

Additionally, in conversations about watches, movements are often secondary to matters such as brand perception, dial and case work, resale value (for the flippers among us), and versatility in wear. This is pretty clear with any look through any of the forums on Watchuseek. There are mentions of in-house versus outsourced movements, but that is often one driven by perceptions held by some that one is superior to the other, either based on level of difficulty or ease of servicing. But those are often secondary to the above-mentioned.

The points I raised undercut your argument. Wishing it away doesn't make it so.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Sevenmack said:


> Yet again, if watch collectors truly cared about movements, they would spend as much time discussing quartz movements as they do mechanicals.


Please believe this simple, true fact: watch collectors do care amount the movement. You may think otherwise, but that doesn't make this fact less true.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

Sevenmack said:


> Yet again, if watch collectors truly cared about movements, they would spend as much time discussing quartz movements as they do mechanicals. If you care about how a watch works, then you have to first care about what powers it, especially when you have to deal with the day-to-day reality of telling time, which is what a watch is supposed to do. That the preference of many is for mechanicals that are objectively less-accurate than either quartz or NTP options (smartwatches) is a reminder that movement is merely a secondary concern. Especially since the main goal for many watch collectors is to retreat from modern technology.
> 
> Additionally, in conversations about watches, movements are often secondary to matters such as brand perception, dial and case work, resale value (for the flippers among us), and versatility in wear. This is pretty clear with any look through any of the forums on Watchuseek. There are mentions of in-house versus outsourced movements, but that is often one driven by perceptions held by some that one is superior to the other, either based on level of difficulty or ease of servicing. But those are often secondary to the above-mentioned.
> 
> The points I raised undercut your argument. Wishing it away doesn't make it so.


This is the last time I will reply since it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere. First of all, many people do talk about quartz movements; there is a whole subform dedicated to them. When a quartz movement is highly accurate, nicely finished, and serviceable like what you find in an oyster quartz, seiko tuna, seiko 9f or spring drive, watch enthusiasts do get excited and talk about them - perhaps not as much as mechanicals, but they do pique the interest of WIS. Second of all, for the 100th time, the very fact that watch enthusiasts prefer quartz over mechanical watches shows that they DO CARE about movements. If we didn't care, we would just pick up the cheapest, most accurate, and best looking watch regardless of movement. However, the reason why people don't do this is because people CARE about movements. Even though they could get a great looking quartz for a fraction of the price of a mechanical, they go for the mechanical because the CARE and PREFER the mechanical movement notwithstanding its inferior accuracy. Just because you personally prefer quartz or think quartz is superior, doesn't mean that others most also prefer quartz watches if they truly care about movements. People value mechanical movements for reasons other than accuracy. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about this. That's like saying that that Ferrari or Porsche enthusiasts don't care about engines because if they did, they would prefer the more efficient and technologically superior engine in a Tesla. On the contrary, they avoid Tesla because they love the outdated technology of the internal combustion engine.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

It seems like 'care' is being used differently. On one hand, 'care about movements' can refer to the fact that people base their purchase decisions on what movement is in the watch (quartz vs mechanical, beat rates, power reserve, etc etc.) On the other hand, 'care about movements' can also refer to getting the most impressive movements based on criteria set out by Sevenmack (objective accuracy regardless of how it is achieved). Maybe Sevenmack might prefer to label that 'caring about accuracy/telling time' rather than the broader and more easily misunderstood 'caring about movements'? It is pretty clear most watch enthusiasts do not prize accuracy over all other aspects. If we did, Sevenmack would be right and we'll all be wearing high tech watches.


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## Bosman (Jul 13, 2014)

This was all discussed a while back comparing the sarb to the sdgm;

https://www.watchuseek.com/f21/sdgm001-worth-$300-more-than-sarb035-2303234.html

My comment in that thread was "But clearly the finishing, dia-shield, drilled lugs, and bracelet, make it "worth" the $300 more in terms of "specs". Aesthetically, that is in the eyes of the beholder."

Now I have the SARB035 but have only seen the SDGM in pics and vids, but could see why it was priced about double.

The SARX being just newly released is the "premium" compared to the sdgm and sarb, it will probably settle down to sdgm pricing and who knows maybe Seiko will release a "new" "sarb" soon. It is all relative. But remember the last line of my post "eye of the beholder", in that thread "size", "Automatic" font and even the "dial" were negatives for some.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Brand matters, too, and is also a big part of my decision-making process when considering a purchase. The SARX035 is a really nice Seiko. It might be the Seikoist Seiko that has ever Seikoed. If I were to consolidate my black dialed, stainless steel Seiko collection and eliminate redundancy, I can have the SARX035 replace 4 others. If that was my primary motivation, the 6R15 movement and even its price takes a backseat to design.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

Absolutely - I didn't mean to say 'care' implies one bases purchase decisions solely on movement characteristics.


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

chillwill120 said:


> This is the last time I will reply since it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere.


We're not "getting anywhere" because we disagree. That's fine. But the disagreement has to be acknowledge for what it is: A conflict of visions over what watch collectors think based on different experiences and contrary evidence.

Elaborating further on KtWUS' response: What can be stated is that many collectors don't care about what watch movements do -- that is, accuracy in timekeeping -- or the aesthetics of the movement. What they do care about is the kind of technology on which the movement is based.

Even then, it is often superficial. Once many collectors learn whether a movement is mechanical or quartz, they often either decide to look further at the watch (if it is automatic) or move on (if it is quartz). Beat rate, finishing, and other matters ends up being secondary to whether the watch is quartz or automatic. That, in turn, is secondary to whether or not the watch comes from a brand they favor, and whether the aesthetics are to their liking.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

I would certainly buy a Seiko SARB033 twice over than an Eterna KonTiki without ever comparing the movements. When the KonTiki shows up in the Bargains thread, y'all act like y'all lost your damn minds! And I don't even like the SARB033!


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Sevenmack said:


> Once many collectors learn whether a movement is mechanical or quartz, they often either decide to look further at the watch (if it is automatic) or move on (if it is quartz). Beat rate, finishing, and other matters ends up being secondary to whether the watch is quartz or automatic.


Yeah right, place a 7S26 in Grand Seiko, ETA in a Rolex (whoops actually they do that with Tudor) and see how they would sell. Get real, we'are talking about watch collectors or lovers, not quartz purchases. Most definitely, movement is a very important deciding factor, get over it.


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

El @ said:


> Yeah right, place a 7S26 in Grand Seiko, ETA in a Rolex (whoops actually they do thatwith tudor) and see how they would sell. Get real, we'are talking about watch collectors or lovers, not quartz purchases. Most definitely, movement is a very important deciding factor. get over it.


Yes the movement is important. The 6R15 is a great movement. Maybe people should get over the fact that it's not dressed up and accept the fact that it's a well designed and reliable workhorse that makes sense in a watch that has phenomenal case finishing and a beautiful dial.


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## Gerard Jones (Feb 27, 2015)

Not sure about "great", but the 6r15 is certainly a good reliable movement. 

It may just be chance, but the 6r in my SDGM007 is far more accurate than the 6r in my SARX019.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

lxnastynotch93 said:


> Yes the movement is important. The 6R15 is a great movement. Maybe people should get over the fact that it's not dressed up and accept the fact that it's a well designed and reliable workhorse that makes sense in a watch that has phenomenal case finishing and a beautiful dial.


It's a solid workhorse movement but I don't think it makes sense in a watch that has phenomenal case finishing. I don't think the issue is that it is not dressed up, the issue from my perspective is the erratic accuracy, slow beat, slow date change, and positional variance. In such a beautiful watch, I'd like to see some of these refinements. Your run of the mill ETA 2824 in a $300 Hamilton has this, so not why sure why Seiko can't manage to put a similar movement in a $800 watch.


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## Richard- (Jan 1, 2011)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> It might be the Seikoist Seiko that has ever Seikoed.


13 pages so far in this thread and James gets my vote for the best one liner :-d:-!


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Gerard Jones said:


> It may just be chance, but the 6r in my SDGM007 is far more accurate than the 6r in my SARX019.


Just have the SARX demagnetized and regulated accurately. It's a normal need with mechanical watches.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

chillwill120 said:


> It's a solid workhorse movement but I don't think it makes sense in a watch that has phenomenal case finishing. I don't think the issue is that it is not dressed up, the issue from my perspective is the erratic accuracy, slow beat, slow date change, and positional variance. In such a beautiful watch, I'd like to see some of these refinements. Your run of the mill ETA 2824 in a $300 Hamilton has this, so not why sure why Seiko can't manage to put a similar movement in a $800 watch.


I wanted to add, I could probably live with the slower beat (especially if it means a longer service interval) and/or the slow date change if accuracy and precision were improved. But I'd like to see at least some of these refinements so the movement is more worthy of being in such a refined case.


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

chillwill120 said:


> I wanted to add, I could probably live with the slower beat (especially if it means a longer service interval) and/or the slow date change if accuracy and precision were improved. But I'd like to see at least some of these refinements so the movement is more worthy of being in such a refined case.


That's exactly what a slower beat does - trade accuracy for longevity and a longer service interval.

Would most owners actually service a sub-1k watch? I think longevity trumps almost anything else if the expectation is that the movement is to be left unserviced until something goes wrong and the movement is either entirely swapped out or the watch is dumped. We praise the cases of these watches but I don't know how many people plan on servicing them rather than replacing them. My guess is that for most buyers, the cutoff for servicing is higher than 1k MSRP.


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## 65rob (Oct 30, 2014)

I personally feel the watch you wear 90% of the time you want good accuracy but watches on rotation accuracy means diddly the 6r15 is pretty good i'd rather pay 1000 for a sarx035 than 2000 if they put some fancier movement in it


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## dr_tyler (Oct 30, 2014)

I am going to chime in again because I have now been wearing this watch for going on two weeks. I loved it the day I put it on and it has been growing on me even more as time passes. The proportions are really bang on for a sport dress watch and the finishing is top shelf. The contrast of the black sunburst dial and the highly polished stainless steel are positively gorgeous. You really need it on the wrist to appreciate. I think once this extended honeymoon is over it will settle in the place of my second favourite watch amongst the 20 or so that I have collected in the last 2 year. My Seamaster is first place. 

I agree with the previous two posts about the movement. It has continued to be 10-11s fast per day. At least it is consistent. It has not stopped since I bought it and I just set it back a minute once per week. When I stop wearing it daily that wont even be an issue. I've had an ETA movement in a $500USD watch before and it was not much more accurate (and the finishing paled in comparison). I think you will find many people with similar experiences if you do some google searches. There are other drawbacks about the movement which have been beaten to death in this thread. However, 10 years down the road if there are significant issues it would be easy enough to replace. Compare that to a $300+ service on an ETA and you see some value. 

Long and the short is I think this watch is well enough constructed to last and beautiful enough to be worth servicing/replacing the movement in 10 years. It'll be an even better value proposition if the price comes down but as things stand I definitely got my moneys worth. I can combine several permutations of lesser valued watches I own that add up the price of this one and will not receive the same amount of wrist time. Easily. I think the theme of this thread is that everyone has different aspects of a given watch that they place value on. I am interested to see how popular the SARX035 becomes once more people have acquired it.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

dr_tyler said:


> I am going to chime in again because I have now been wearing this watch for going on two weeks. I loved it the day I put it on and it has been growing on me even more as time passes. The proportions are really bang on for a sport dress watch and the finishing is top shelf. The contrast of the black sunburst dial and the highly polished stainless steel are positively gorgeous. You really need it on the wrist to appreciate. I think once this extended honeymoon is over it will settle in the place of my second favourite watch amongst the 20 or so that I have collected in the last 2 year. My Seamaster is first place.
> 
> I agree with the previous two posts about the movement. It has continued to be 10-11s fast per day. At least it is consistent. It has not stopped since I bought it and I just set it back a minute once per week. When I stop wearing it daily that wont even be an issue. I've had an ETA movement in a $500USD watch before and it was not much more accurate (and the finishing paled in comparison). I think you will find many people with similar experiences if you do some google searches. There are other drawbacks about the movement which have been beaten to death in this thread. However, 10 years down the road if there are significant issues it would be easy enough to replace. Compare that to a $300+ service on an ETA and you see some value.
> 
> Long and the short is I think this watch is well enough constructed to last and beautiful enough to be worth servicing/replacing the movement in 10 years. It'll be an even better value proposition if the price comes down but as things stand I definitely got my moneys worth. I can combine several permutations of lesser valued watches I own that add up the price of this one and will not receive the same amount of wrist time. Easily. I think the theme of this thread is that everyone has different aspects of a given watch that they place value on. I am interested to see how popular the SARX035 becomes once more people have acquired it.


Just curious what makes you think it will be easy to replace in 10 years?


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## dr_tyler (Oct 30, 2014)

You know what, TBH, I could be off base with that comment. I was inferring from other posts I have read. Are you suggesting that the movement might not be in production at that time or that it is difficult to find watchmakers to do the work?



chillwill120 said:


> Just curious what makes you think it will be easy to replace in 10 years?


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## KtWUS (Mar 19, 2016)

chillwill120 said:


> Just curious what makes you think it will be easy to replace in 10 years?


Its based on the 7s26 which has been around for 20 years already. Its unlikely, I think, that Seiko would deviate from the workhorse base in the next 10 years.


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

dr_tyler said:


> You know what, TBH, I could be off base with that comment. I was inferring from other posts I have read. Are you suggesting that the movement might not be in production at that time or that it is difficult to find watchmakers to do the work?


No, I don't mean to suggest that, just an honest question. Even if it is widely available, will it be cheap to buy? Is it even cheap now?


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## chillwill120 (Apr 18, 2014)

KtWUS said:


> Its based on the 7s26 which has been around for 20 years already. Its unlikely, I think, that Seiko would deviate from the workhorse base in the next 10 years.


Well it is based on the 7s26, but it is not a 7s26. No way to know for sure.


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## Richard- (Jan 1, 2011)

chillwill120 said:


> No, I don't mean to suggest that, just an honest question. Even if it is widely available, will it be cheap to buy? Is it even cheap now?


I think an NE15 movement is about $100, just swap out the rotors and your good to go. I don't know if this is cheap vs servicing costs if you have to pay someone to fit it for you. But this applies to any mechanical movement, servicing will have to be dealt with at some point in the life of a watch.


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## Premise (Jul 31, 2016)

I'm just going to leave these here.


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

Love everything in this watch except the hands, so upgraded them a bit.


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## bubbleback30 (Jul 31, 2014)

IMHO, Seiko will continue 6R movement offering as mid tier Japan Domestic models for many years ahead ... No worries if any collector wishes to replace parts or even entire movement &#55357;&#56842;

On the other hand, current 4R movements (International & Asia Models) will gradually replaced the aging 7S (non-hacking & non-winding) within next 3-5 years.

The differences of 6R and 4R:
:: 6R - higher reserved power of over 50-hrs; plus using Spron mainspring!
:: 4R - reserved power of 40-hrs;

As I have mentioned earlier, to achieve Economical of Scales, Seiko had focus on the followings:

Standard Movt - 7S (will gradually replaced by 4S);
Standard Movt - 4S (many new Asia Models already housing 4S);
Advance Movt - 6S (JDM and selected Asia Models);
High Grade Movt - 8L and 4L (only Seiko MarineMaster Diver and Dressed Credor);
Chronometer Grade - GS (no need to elaborate &#55357;&#56911

Cheers
Danell SG


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

I don't think the 7S will be ever be replaced by the 4R - Seiko needs it for differentiation and to maintain pricing levels.

However the disappointing fact is the total lack of development on mechanical movements except for very marginal features and polishing on the high end.


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

No doubt SARX035 is a beautiful watch, is it overpriced?
Well, same question was raised while SDGMs have been released, considering how many of us have bought them people voted with their wallets very clearly.

SARX, SDGM or any other watch - I think if you like it the only question is can I afford if? or how should I manage to be in a position to afford it?

Have both, SARX035 and creamy SDGM and they are my favourite Seikos, probably can be beaten only by hi-beat GS one day.

Now, let me release some watchp0rn of these lovely watches...


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)




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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)




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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)




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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)




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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)




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## John Price (Feb 21, 2011)

Great photos v1triol. They capture the design of the case and bracelet quite nicely. I have the inverse of your pair - black dialed SDGM and white SARX. I think both are definitely worth the money.


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

Thank you JP, yes saw your pair I've started with SDGM003 as a black dial but SARX is more my cup of tea. Agreed, does not matter which dial you prefer each of these watches is worth every penny.
If everything turns out well, in 2-3 month time I should be able to do a comparison to GS, fingers crossed.

Family photo btw


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## Pachoe (Sep 26, 2007)

Absolutely Stunning V1triol!!!!!!! thanks for sharing!!!!! what a joy to watch;


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## CeeDee (Jan 24, 2015)

v1triol said:


> Love everything in this watch except the hands, so upgraded them a bit.


Beautiful! May I ask where you got the new hands? Did you have a local watchmaker install them?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## John Price (Feb 21, 2011)

Ha, right there with you v1triol as far as Grand Seikos go. I have a Snowflake on lay away here and will be picking it up in Sept. Counting the days!


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

Thanks Pachoe, glad you enjoy it. Isn't it all about enjoying how our watches look? 
Would be great to see more of your great shots soon!


No problem cdonald, these are 50-years old hands from Sportsmatic Deluxe. Cost me peanuts, cause I took a risk and bidded a piece with crystal so tired that you couldn't really tell what is going on under it. Lucky everything underneath was fine. Apparently I was also lucky that Seiko didn't change the stem diameter. 
First, wasn't happy as thought that hour hand is way too short, but realized it is exactly in the middle of hour mark. All together keeps the watch very symmetric and I like it a lot


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)




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## Whitershadeofpale (Apr 17, 2016)

Adman said:


> I've always wanted an SARB033 which I absolutely LOVE the look of however I've always felt that 37-38mm is just too small for me so I've never gotten one. The alternatives I've looked at always have something about them that turns me off: the patterned dial and Onyx crown on the SDGM003, the day wheel and the exhibition case back printing on the SARY057, the unusual hands and bracelet on the SARX015 etc. So, when I saw the upcoming release of the beautiful SARX035, I was super excited and decided I would get one- until I saw the price. *****, these things are expensive for what they are! It's a basic three hand stainless steel dress watch with a 6R15 movement (admittedly it also has a Diashield coating) but they are asking more than double the price of a SARB033 and three times the price of an SARY057.
> 
> Is it just me or does anyone else think this is a bit over the top price wise?
> 
> View attachment 8281362


Consider this. When comparing prices of SEIKO timepieces against Swiss watches. Always remember that a SEIKO is a in house product down to the last drop of lubricant. SEIKO designs, manufactures and assembles every timepiece that is sold. 
The vast majority of Swiss watches use suppliers for their dials, hands, bracelets, cases and you know the story about their movements. ETA a division of the Swatch company provides the majority of Swiss brands with movements. So what you end up with is a Swiss watch company assembling watches.
But with SEIKO you have a watch that is 100% SEIKO. So what is there to complain about when it comes to their prices.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Whitershadeofpale said:


> Consider this. When comparing prices of SEIKO timepieces against Swiss watches. Always remember that a SEIKO is a in house product down to the last drop of lubricant. SEIKO designs, manufactures and assembles every timepiece that is sold.
> The vast majority of Swiss watches use suppliers for their dials, hands, bracelets, cases and you know the story about their movements. ETA a division of the Swatch company provides the majority of Swiss brands with movements. So what you end up with is a Swiss watch company assembling watches. But with SEIKO you have a watch that is 100% SEIKO. So what is there to complain about when it comes to their prices.


Also the US Dollar, Euro, British Pound, Canadian Dollar and Australian Dollar tend to rise and fall together with other Western currency so relative savings with currency exchange rates might not be as significant as they can be versus the Japanese Yen. (Then again, the Western currencies are all in the toilet versus the JPY right now and we may never see the new SARXs in the sub-$700 USD range.)


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Well, if you're based in the US, the dollar will probably rise once the Fed's adjust the interest rates up a notch.


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## Premise (Jul 31, 2016)

Speaking of SARX prices, I'm surprised how low a few have listed for used. There's a cheap 035 available now. I was almost tempted to snag the black dial too.


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## rytec (Dec 7, 2016)

Good afternoon, here a quick picture of my SARX035
I will send some more and I will have to introduce myself somewhere


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

rytec said:


> Good afternoon, here a quick picture of my SARX035
> I will send some more and I will have to introduce myself somewhere


Welcome mate.


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## serge70 (Nov 16, 2010)

It's a lovely simple watch and if I wanted it I would just save up a bit and buy it.

However,I have just received the "inferior" SARB017 and am quite smitten.

All is well in Seikoland.


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## rytec (Dec 7, 2016)

El @ said:


> Just have the SARX demagnetized and regulated accurately. It's a normal need with mechanical watches.


By yourself or at a service point?


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

rytec said:


> By yourself or at a service point?


Any watch repair shop can do that.


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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks for all the pics, this thread got me to pull the trigger on a SARX035.

I sold my Rolex Explorer 1 36mm to a friend in order to fund my JLC MUT Moon and was looking for a suitable replacement for the Explorer (bracelet watch), after having my SARB065 for 3 years and it being the watch I wore the most in that time I felt like I clearly had to get another Seiko!

Was very close to getting the SDGM003 due to the dial but I didn't like the crown (I know it can be swapped) or the typeface on it.

Will post some pictures when I get it to add to this thread and hopefully convince someone else..


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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2010)

Got my SARX. Honestly Pictures don't do this watch justice, the finishing of the hands, the dial and all components is amazing, the bracelet design is excellent and just the general feel of it is quality!

The only negative I feel about the watch after a day with it is that it seems to wear pretty thick, I feel like I'd probably like the watch even more if it was 1mm to 1.5mm less in diameter as it would allow it to wear a bit thinner and be a better size for my relatively thin wrists (I tried a SARB033 on which I thought was perfect).

Very excited to wear this and enjoy it more though.

*
Box Shot:*








*Wrist Shot:*








*Wrist shot comparing with my JLC MUT Moon:
*


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## rytec (Dec 7, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> Got my SARX. Honestly Pictures don't do this watch justice, the finishing of the hands, the dial and all components is amazing, the bracelet design is excellent and just the general feel of it is quality!
> 
> The only negative I feel about the watch after a day with it is that it seems to wear pretty thick, I feel like I'd probably like the watch even more if it was 1mm to 1.5mm less in diameter as it would allow it to wear a bit thinner and be a better size for my relatively thin wrists (I tried a SARB033 on which I thought was perfect).
> 
> ...


Congratulations with this beauty.

I'm als still in love with mine but I'm glad it is a bit bigger than my previous SARB033

Just my 2 cents 

Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


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## WichitaViajero (Feb 22, 2013)

I feel the same way, I did pull the trigger and bought a sarb033, it is a beautiful watch indeed, but if feels so small, I'm considering the sarx035, we'll see


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

With the US Dollar performing so well against the Japanese Yen, the SARX035 is getting near that dangerous "Hrm...maybe I should..." range. I'm still not sold on the chubby hands but this might be the closest I get to a Grand Seiko in the near future. Then again, the cost of one is a good chunk of the cost of an SBGR053 or another one of my upmarket grails. I just have to keep reminding myself that I do not need yet another black dial bracelet dress watch until that GS.


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## rytec (Dec 7, 2016)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> With the US Dollar performing so well against the Japanese Yen, the SARX035 is getting near that dangerous "Hrm...maybe I should..." range. I'm still not sold on the chubby hands but this might be the closest I get to a Grand Seiko in the near future. Then again, the cost of one is a good chunk of the cost of an SBGR053 or another one of my upmarket grails. I just have to keep reminding myself that I do not need yet another black dial bracelet dress watch until that GS.


For me it's also a very long way to a GS, and I can tell you that this SARX035 is worth the money and it really gives you the idea you almost have a GS 

What feeling should it give if I would have a GS, man am I curious 

Ryan

Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

Yes, it is worth every penny. Initially I used to call SARX as a kind of the GS substitute, but now after owning hi-beat, think it is just a step to the GS.


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## rytec (Dec 7, 2016)

v1triol said:


> Yes, it is worth every penny. Initially I used to call SARX as a kind of the GS substitute, but now after owning hi-beat, think it is just a step to the GS.


Wow! Beautiful to see them both together and they both play so good with the lights

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## rytec (Dec 7, 2016)

rytec said:


> Wow! Beautiful to see them both together and they both play so good with the lights
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


Would it be possible to show a short video with both watches showing their secondhand movings?

Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Boy, I wish I hadn't looked through this thread. I had no idea how nice that watch actually looked, having only seen a few retailers' pics. What a perfect watch to pair with a suit, which I only wear occasionally now.

<Sigh> add another to the wannit list...


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

So this is what a cheaper version of the Grand Seiko looks like. The finishing really looks like crap.


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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2010)

T1meout said:


> So this is what a cheaper version of the Grand Seiko looks like. The finishing really looks like crap.


What is wrong with the finishing?


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## blurred (Jul 7, 2009)

I think the SARX is just stunning as a 3 hander. I have a big soft spot for an Omega Aqua terra but I have a feeling that I will prefer this instead for my intended use!!!


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## glassmandave (Mar 25, 2015)

Love what you did with the hands--I agree with you, I love everything about this watch except the hands. Did you consider SDGM hands? Do you know if they would fit the markers, or if they'd be too long? Thanks.


v1triol said:


> Love everything in this watch except the hands, so upgraded them a bit.


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## wilcoxen.4 (Jan 25, 2014)

T1meout said:


> So this is what a cheaper version of the Grand Seiko looks like. The finishing really looks like crap.


Aren't trolls fun? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

rytec said:


> Would it be possible to show a short video with both watches showing their secondhand movings?


Should be fine pal, I will try to do some video during Christmas break.



glassmandave said:


> Love what you did with the hands--I agree with you, I love everything about this watch except the hands. Did you consider SDGM hands? Do you know if they would fit the markers, or if they'd be too long? Thanks.


Thanks mate. SDGM hands fit damn good imo, actually this is exactly how I mod it currently, here are few shots.


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## lechat (Oct 13, 2014)

Congrat !
How much second +/~ by day ?


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## bjkadron (Dec 14, 2016)

Where did you get the Hands/get them installed? And can I ask how much it was to do that?



v1triol said:


> Should be fine pal, I will try to do some video during Christmas break.
> 
> Thanks mate. SDGM hands fit damn good imo, actually this is exactly how I mod it currently, here are few shots.


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## reggie747 (Sep 12, 2013)

That looks just fine to me.


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

reggie747 said:


> That looks just fine to me.


A pair of SARXes for you Sir?


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Damn it. Every time this thread is bumped up to the top, I get the itch to buy one. Then I get stuck in the same dilemma of purchasing one or putting that money into a Grand Seiko 9S. Then I think about how many black dial watches on stainless steel bracelets I already own. Then I remember the kids are beginning to suspect why we have been having bologna and mustard sandwiches for months which would become more evident when I omit the mustard.


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> Then I remember the kids are beginning to suspect why we have been having bologna and mustard sandwiches for months which would become more evident when I omit the mustard.


Well, you know, healthy eating and such... :-d


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## x_zephyr (Jun 12, 2016)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> Damn it. Every time this thread is bumped up to the top, I get the itch to buy one.


Me too, and I finally pulled the trigger last week when I was in Singapore
I couldn't resist the temptation of this beauty


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## zymphad (Dec 28, 2015)

If they upgrade the movement, would be at top of my list of watches to get. But I refuse to pay more than $400 for a 6R15

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

zymphad said:


> If they upgrade the movement, would be at top of my list of watches to get. But I refuse to pay more than $400 for a 6R15
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I agree. It must also be said that Seiko doesn't have any product to upgrade the mov.t.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

El @ said:


> I agree. It must also be said that Seiko doesn't have any product to upgrade the mov.t.


That's the rub for budget-conscious Seikoholics like myself. Do I drop $800 USD for a SARX035 with a 6R15 movement or do I spend five times as much for a SBGR053 with a 9S65? Furthermore, what would be the potential service and/or replacement costs down the line?

I know I am echoing the same concerns that have been raised since the SARX03x unveiling but I find myself specifically facing this decision recently.


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## hikeNbike (Oct 26, 2013)

Prices really haven't come down much. Seems its still over 700 most places. If I had a smaller wrist would get a sarb. But given my wrist size feels too small.

Considering this but how does it compare to the citizen. Which would you get. Citizen looks to be about 150 to 200 less.



















yadda yadda tapatalk


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## Premise (Jul 31, 2016)

I had the SARX033. It's spectacular. I only parted with it to pick up a Marinemaster. It feels like a ton more watch than the SARB. I can't really give a knock to the 6R15 other than what I noticed about every Seiko I've owned including the Marinemaster's 8L35 is that they all seem to lose a bit of time off of full wind. I could possibly get another SARB at some point, but I have a feeling I would wish I had the SARX when wearing it.


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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

To me the Citizen Grand Classic looks (in styling) a lot like the SARX013/15. I think they look nice (both the Citizen and the SARX013/15), but not what I want for a dress watch.

I think the Citizen is a great value. It has AR which I believe the SARX013/15 lack, and it is a 28.8k movement.

The SARX033/35 remind me of the type of Grand Seiko I want. That is why I enjoy looking at them.

My problem is my 6.7" wrist. It looks to me that the SARX going to be too big for a dress watch for me at 41mm.

The Citizen is even bigger at 42mm.

So as far as I can tell, my only step up from my sarb033, which is my ideal dress watch size, is a GS SBGR051/53.


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## Premise (Jul 31, 2016)

awayne said:


> To me the Citizen Grand Classic looks (in styling) a lot like the SARX013/15. I think they look nice (both the Citizen and the SARX013/15), but not what I want for a dress watch.
> 
> I think the Citizen is a great value. It has AR which I believe the SARX013/15 lack, and it is a 28.8k movement.
> 
> ...


We have near the same size wrist. This is what it looked like on me.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

awayne said:


> So as far as I can tell, my only step up from my sarb033, which is my ideal dress watch size, is a GS SBGR051/53.


I completely understand. I have plenty of 40mm JDM Seiko dress watches but they feel a smidge too large at times. The SARX035 might be even chunkier on the bracelet (and I tend to keep watches in stock configuration). That said, the smaller SBGR053 might be worth saving for but then I'm creeping toward Rolex territory.


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## Premise (Jul 31, 2016)

The SARX is all dial too in the sense that the bezel is very thin. Other than the added thickness it wore almost the same as my 40mm Scurfa diver. It's a big dress watch but not overwhelming so in my experience. That said if you own the SARB and think it wears perfectly, the SARX will feel big.


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> That's the rub for budget-conscious Seikoholics like myself. Do I drop $800 USD for a SARX035 with a 6R15 movement or I I spend five times as much for a SBGR053 with a 9S65? Furthermore, what would be the potential service and/or replacement costs down the line?
> 
> I know I am echoing the same concerns that have been raised since the SARX03x unveiling but I find myself specifically facing this decision recently.


For those who are primarily concerned about movement and not about the aesthetics, the SARX033 and SARX035 is not enough value. That's fine. For those of us who appreciate the improvements in aesthetics (including the better bracelet), the two SARX are worth the money. Besides, people buy Swiss watches with Sellita and ETA movements that are often no better, save for the higher beat. But again, that's a matter of preference and we are each entitled to it.

The SARX035 is on my list at this point. Ultimately,it will come down to aesthetics for me.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Sevenmack said:


> The SARX035 is on my list at this point. Ultimately,it will come down to aesthetics for me.


Yeah, it is still on my list but a return visit to the Seiko Boutique in March might change that. The SBGR053 haunts me in my sleep.


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## rytec (Dec 7, 2016)

Congratulations with this purchase, I weared it again this weekend and it is a great watch. And how bright the glass is, you could almost take out the hands of it


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## rytec (Dec 7, 2016)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> Yeah, it is still on my list but a return visit to the Seiko Boutique in March might change that. The SBGR053 haunts me in my sleep.


In my case it's the SBGH005 which haunts me


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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

Even at $3600 full MSRP, the SBGR051/053 are just getting into the bottom range of used Explorer I/Datejust prices. And I think the GS looks better than the Rolexes.

I think the GS high-beats look a little better than the SBGRs. But the high-beat case is too long for me, and the cheapest GS auto is all I'd ever want in a dress watch.


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)




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## longstride (Jan 13, 2011)

It's enough to make you want to buy a vintage Grand Seiko...



Adman said:


> I've always wanted an SARB033 which I absolutely LOVE the look of however I've always felt that 37-38mm is just too small for me so I've never gotten one. The alternatives I've looked at always have something about them that turns me off: the patterned dial and Onyx crown on the SDGM003, the day wheel and the exhibition case back printing on the SARY057, the unusual hands and bracelet on the SARX015 etc. So, when I saw the upcoming release of the beautiful SARX035, I was super excited and decided I would get one- until I saw the price. *****, these things are expensive for what they are! It's a basic three hand stainless steel dress watch with a 6R15 movement (admittedly it also has a Diashield coating) but they are asking more than double the price of a SARB033 and three times the price of an SARY057.
> 
> Is it just me or does anyone else think this is a bit over the top price wise?
> 
> View attachment 8281362


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

I tried on a GS SBGA011 snowflake at an AD and it was phenomenal. 10/10 in finishing quality. 9.5/10 for finishing on the movement as well.

The SARX is a 9.3/10 for the finishing quality and a 6/10 for the movement. I would say for 1/10 of the price it's a pretty good buy.


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

x_zephyr said:


> Me too, and I finally pulled the trigger last week when I was in Singapore


Where exactly in Singapore? Big Time?


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

hikeNbike said:


> Prices really haven't come down much. Seems its still over 700 most places. If I had a smaller wrist would get a sarb. But given my wrist size feels too small.


I wouldn't look at it from just the size comparison.

Tbf, I've not handled one. But the details on the SARB033/035 always left me scratching my head as to how this could remotely be compared to a GS apart from a relatively clean dial. One detail I can't move past is the toy-looking crown. Also, I don't like how the SARB series has "23 Jewels" in that serif font - a reason I've never pulled the trigger on the SARB065/cocktail time despite me always monitoring the prices.

Back to point, even if I wanted a smaller watch, I would not consider the SARB033/35 as an adequate substitute for the SARX033/35. Of course, it just my opinion and we can all beg to differ.


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> That said, the smaller SBGR053 might be worth saving for but then I'm creeping toward Rolex territory.


I know what you mean... If I spend $X000 on a watch, I want people to know I've spent that amount.

I think part of the problem of lack of brand recognition on the GS is just branding. The bottom half of the dial with "GS" and "Grand Seiko" is fine... but they also endow every dial with the regular "Seiko" on the top half of the dial. To the less informed, what you have is just another seiko...

IMO, Lexus and Infiniti would be viewed quite differently if there were branded as "Grand Toyota" and "Grand Nissan". Branding does make a BIGBIGBIG difference!


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

mrfourcows said:


> I know what you mean... If I spend $X000 on a watch, I want people to know I've spent that amount.


That isn't something I'm concerned with, really. My dad turns 82 this year and his 1964 Rolex Day-Date Presidential is something he has been very proud to own through my entire life. Since I started getting into watches, he has wanted me to get a Rolex. I have never spent more than $1000 USD on a watch and have no interest in having more than one watch beyond that range, hence the dilemma. Maybe when he sees the GS at the Seiko Boutique next month he will give the SBGR053 his endorsement!


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> My dad turns 82 this year and his 1964 Rolex Day-Date Presidential is something he has been very proud to own through my entire life. Since I started getting into watches, he has wanted me to get a Rolex.


... Back in the days where Rolex was still an affordable timepiece and not some symbol status.


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## DarthVedder (Jun 12, 2011)

mrfourcows said:


> I think part of the problem of lack of brand recognition on the GS is just branding. The bottom half of the dial with "GS" and "Grand Seiko" is fine... but they also endow every dial with the regular "Seiko" on the top half of the dial. To the less informed, what you have is just another seiko...
> 
> IMO, Lexus and Infiniti would be viewed quite differently if there were branded as "Grand Toyota" and "Grand Nissan". Branding does make a BIGBIGBIG difference!


Well, I think Seiko have been succesful. Creating a luxury brand from scratch is also very difficult, since one of the biggest selling points is the heritage and prestige earned through many years. That's why even relatively new manufacturers purchase the rights to older names (like Breguet or Lange).


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## Aerofish (Aug 10, 2011)

Wish I never saw this thread/watch


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

DarthVedder said:


> Well, I think Seiko have been succesful. Creating a luxury brand from scratch is also very difficult, since one of the biggest selling points is the heritage and prestige earned through many years.


I'm not saying that Seiko should disregard/discard the GS brand... but the watches would get an instant aesthetic/branding upgrade if they just removed the "seiko" on top, and moved the GS logo and "Grand Seiko" to the top - not dissimilar to rolex.

Also, talking about sub brand names, seiko has shown that it is not afraid to use different names - pulsar, credor to name a couple. Also, would credor get as much of the credit it does if it had "seiko" written anymore near it? I think even if you wanted a watch at the top end of finishing/detail, you wouldn't want someone mistaking that you have "just another seiko". Ergo, back to my point that the branding of GS could be improved.


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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

I think having "Grand Seiko" at the top won't make a GS any more recognizable as a luxury watch than it already is.

I think almost nobody in the public is going to be impressed with "Grand Seiko". If they saw that, combined with how pretty the watch is, they'd probably assume it was a $1,000 Seiko.

I really like seeing the plain Seiko there myself.

I think Credor is way more obscure in the West than GS is. Until a few months ago, if I saw a watch with just "Credor" there and didn't look at it really good, I'd assume it was either some Swiss brand I hadn't heard of, or some cheap knockoff.

One of the reasons I like GS over the well-known Swiss brands and hope to have one someday is I think it would be an effective filter.

I mean I think this is how it would probably go if somebody commented on your GS

Scenario A:

Man on Street: "Hey, that's a nice watch! What is it?"
Me: "Thanks. It's a Seiko".
Man on Street: "Oh."

Scenario B:

Fellow WIS (unknown to me): "That's a nice watch, what is it?
Me: "Thanks. It's a Seiko."
WIS: "Is it a Grand Seiko?"
Me: "Yes"
(Short friendly conversation about watches follows)


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## Premise (Jul 31, 2016)

awayne said:


> I think having "Grand Seiko" at the top won't make a GS any more recognizable as a luxury watch than it already is.
> 
> I think almost nobody in the public is going to be impressed with "Grand Seiko". If they saw that, combined with how pretty the watch is, they'd probably assume it was a $1,000 Seiko.
> 
> ...


Your first example has been my experience with every Seiko I've ever had. A guy at work kept staring at my SARX033. I was about to say something when he leaned in closer, saw SEIKO on the dial, his facial expression changed to one less than amused, and he walked away.

I've been asked about my Marinemaster before but more of the same. Most people don't care about a watch unless it has a recognizable luxury name on the dial.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Premise said:


> Your first example has been my experience with every Seiko I've ever had. A guy at work kept staring at my SARX033. I was about to say something when he leaned in closer, saw SEIKO on the dial, his facial expression changed to one less than amused, and he walked away.
> 
> I've been asked about my Marinemaster before but more of the same. Most people don't care about a watch unless it has a recognizable luxury name on the dial.


They are objectively terrible people and neither deserve nor are even capable of knowing anything about watches.


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## x_zephyr (Jun 12, 2016)

mrfourcows said:


> Where exactly in Singapore? Big Time?


Yes, I picked up the one and only SARX035 they had at that time 
Had requested them several days before to hold it for me


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

awayne said:


> I think having "Grand Seiko" at the top won't make a GS any more recognizable as a luxury watch than it already is.
> 
> I think almost nobody in the public is going to be impressed with "Grand Seiko". If they saw that, combined with how pretty the watch is, they'd probably assume it was a $1,000 Seiko.


You've said it there yourself: Seiko has failed to market the GS brand to the high luxury market it thinks/wants/deserves to be.


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## Gharddog03 (Nov 16, 2008)

At the price point you can't beat the SARX. The bracelet is a major upgrade from the Sarb.


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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

That's a nice pic of the sarx035. It looks like the AR is doing its job.

I can never take a decent pic of my sarb033. It always looks glazed over.

People keep posting here that Seiko sells 90% of their watches in Japan. 

That may be true, but they've been available almost everywhere else for a really long time.

I think the brand is well-regarded around the world. But I think almost nobody has ever seen a Grand Seiko.

I see Omega, Breitling, IWC, Zenith, Tag, Longines, Tissot, Hamilton etc. every time I go downtown. I have seen Rolexes, but there is no Rolex AD in my town. 

I've never seen a Grand Seiko.


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

I stopped into a local Grand Seiko AD wearing my SARX033. They took out the SBGA011 snowflake for me to look at.

Simply put: The GS is not worth nine times as much as the SARX.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

lxnastynotch93 said:


> Simply put: The GS is not worth nine times as much as the SARX.


What about twentyfive times a SARB?
Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## wuhan_clan (May 24, 2010)

The SARX series is definitely a step up in quality from the SARB series but I don't think it's a good value.

I don't own the particular SARX in question but I've had one of the newer models from this year, the SARX047, for just a couple days. The improved finishing on the case and dial/markers is immediately noticeable but I don't think that alone can justify the over double price tag considering it is still using the 6R15 movement (the newer ones are now up to 6R15D). Maybe I've just had bad luck but the 6R15 movement seems really overrated. I currently have a 2 year old Alpinist running at -35 seconds per day, a 1 year old SARB035 running at -25, and a week old SARG005 running at +40. The SARX047 that I gave back was also running ridiculously fast. I've never had this much variation with ETAs, and I've owned dozens of those. I've never seen an ETA run more than +/- 20s and I even have a 7 yr old Hamilton with a 2824-2 doing +5 s a day, no service.
They don't even decorate the 6R15; they get the same non finishing as on the lower models. Yes, you don't get to see it on your wrist but this is a luxury product we are talking about here. C'mon now, who makes a $650+ dress watch with a display back and DOESN'T decorate their movement at least a little bit? Apparently Seiko. I love this company but man, what a ...... value at this price point. I'll never spend more than $400 on a Seiko unless it's for a Grand Seiko.

That being said, the value per dollar from the SARBs is pretty much unmatched.


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

mrfourcows said:


> awayne said:
> 
> 
> > I think having "Grand Seiko" at the top won't make a GS any more recognizable as a luxury watch than it already is.
> ...


Finally, GS will be independently branded. Not sure about the font choice though.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/grand-seiko-independent-brand-sbgw251-sbgw252-sbgw255-introducing


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## ChronoTraveler (Oct 28, 2014)

Here's mine.









Very happy so far. First impressions is that it looks like a high-end watch, with superb AR coating and top finish.

I'll probably write a small review and (try to) take some better pictures next week.


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## depwnz (Apr 14, 2016)

wuhan_clan said:


> The SARX series is definitely a step up in quality from the SARB series but I don't think it's a good value.
> 
> I don't own the particular SARX in question but I've had one of the newer models from this year, the SARX047, for just a couple days. The improved finishing on the case and dial/markers is immediately noticeable but I don't think that alone can justify the over double price tag considering it is still using the 6R15 movement (the newer ones are now up to 6R15D). Maybe I've just had bad luck but the 6R15 movement seems really overrated. I currently have a 2 year old Alpinist running at -35 seconds per day, a 1 year old SARB035 running at -25, and a week old SARG005 running at +40. The SARX047 that I gave back was also running ridiculously fast. I've never had this much variation with ETAs, and I've owned dozens of those. I've never seen an ETA run more than +/- 20s and I even have a 7 yr old Hamilton with a 2824-2 doing +5 s a day, no service.
> They don't even decorate the 6R15; they get the same non finishing as on the lower models. Yes, you don't get to see it on your wrist but this is a luxury product we are talking about here. C'mon now, who makes a $650+ dress watch with a display back and DOESN'T decorate their movement at least a little bit? Apparently Seiko. I love this company but man, what a ...... value at this price point. I'll never spend more than $400 on a Seiko unless it's for a Grand Seiko.
> ...


For me, I pay for the Seiko aesthetic and durability. Accuracy has never been a decisive factor simply because it's too random.

3x4R: +-3 in the last 1.5 years, no service
Chariot 2220 from 1974: +-10, no service as far as I know
SARG012 with 6R: +1min lol

Anyway from my experience, 4R movement does have more stable accuracy. Meanwhile 6R ranges from +-1s to +2 mins, no ideas why


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

depwnz said:


> For me, I pay for the Seiko aesthetic and durability.


That is fine, but the subject of this thread is to discuss how much the the SARX033 is overpriced relatively to other Seiko models. Doing the comparison to the 4R36 that you like, that is about 7 or 800%.


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## Seikogi (May 2, 2016)

Don't think its overpriced. Seiko is just increasing prices generally. Swiss brands do it as well, why should Seiko not care about profits? Look at the Sinn 556 for example. Went from 600 to 900€ without any upgrades...


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## soaking.fused (May 3, 2012)

Fancy its looks and hoping to see more of these surface on the boards.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

soaking.fused said:


> Fancy its looks and hoping to see more of these surface on the boards.


Due to its price and other reasons discussed in this thread, these simply have not become ubiquitous as the SARB033 and SARB035.


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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

I think they're awesome watches for people who want AR sapphire, GS style, near-GS-level finishing, and a GS-quality bracelet, for a fraction of the GS auto price, and don't mind having the 6r15. And also can handle a dress watch this big (which, unfortunately, I cannot).


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Seikogi said:


> Don't think its overpriced. Seiko is just increasing prices generally. Swiss brands do it as well, why should Seiko not care about profits? Look at the Sinn 556 for example. Went from 600 to 900€ without any upgrades...


What Sinn or anything else has to do with Seiko? If you don't get the meaning of "overpriced", I'll repeat it again:
SARB033, about $300
SARX033, about $900
And these are comparable watches using the same mov.t - which cost about $100 retail.

So, three times more, that is very overpriced - just like the thread title says.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Meh. I think most of us agree that it is overpriced, understand what overpriced means relative to comparable models and relative to our own budgets, and a select few are willing to pay the large premium for the nominal upgrades and specific aesthetics of SARX035. It is overpriced in many ways for many of us but it is not objectively so.

Thinking about this, I would pay twice as much for the SARB033 if it did not have lume and maybe a better clasp but that is just me. That might sound silly but that would be a decision I am making with my money and I can do so whether or not I think it is overpriced.


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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2010)

El @ said:


> What Sinn or anything else has to do with Seiko? If you don't get the meaning of "overpriced", I'll repeat it again:
> SARB033, about $300
> SARX033, about $900
> And these are comparable watches using the same mov.t - which cost about $100 retail.
> ...


If you are buying from somewhere who's selling the SARB033 for $300 you wouldn't be paying much more than $700 for the SARX033 so I'm not sure about the validity of the price comparison.

Comparing these watches based on the movement alone isn't fair either, there are some clear differences like the removal of the lume on the hands and markers making the SARX into more of a dressy watch but the BIG advantage the SARX has is the 5 part bracelet which is similar to what they use on the Grand Seiko's - It has to be seen in the flesh to see the quality of it, the differences in textures between polished and brushed is perfect, the flush clasp makes it look classy and it just screams quality in comparison to the SARB bracelet which is just a run of the mill bracelet.


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## Toothbras (Apr 19, 2010)

Overpriced???? This is probably in the top 1% of bang-for-the-buck watches


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Toothbras said:


> Overpriced???? This is probably in the top 1% of bang-for-the-buck watches


You haven't seen a sarb033 then.

"Movement doesn't di the watch."...
"No lume adds quality"...
"Screaming bracelet"...

Laughable statements of no substance.


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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> Meh. I think most of us agree that it is overpriced, understand what overpriced means relative to comparable models and relative to our own budgets, and a select few are willing to pay the large premium for the nominal upgrades and specific aesthetics of SARX035. It is overpriced in many ways for many of us but it is not objectively so.
> 
> Thinking about this, I would pay twice as much for the SARB033 if it did not have lume and maybe a better clasp but that is just me. That might sound silly but that would be a decision I am making with my money and I can do so whether or not I think it is overpriced.


I'd also want AR on the crystal before I'd pay 2X the price for a sarb033


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## fordy964 (Oct 8, 2013)

I think there are a few things going on here.

Firstly I think Seiko have had a lot of success with their basic mechanical lines over the last 10 years and I suspect they haven't made a whole lot of money on it. Concurrent with an attempt to get GS customers paying fair market value for what GS believe is Rolex/Omega level, they also want customers in the regular mechanical lines paying fair value too versus the mid-tier Swiss like Hamilton and Tissot. It seems to be that Seiko think it's time to charge more.

I think we are also seeing a little bit of a repositioning of the 6R15. Previously used in the 30-50000 JPY watches but now seems to be moved up to the 50-10000 JPY level. Of course in those watches, as with this SARX033/035 we are seeing more watch too. The 4R36 seems to be taking the 30-50000 JPY slot as we have seen with the Presage Cocktail Time replacement.

Finally, and I think its been said above, the Yen has appreciated markedly in the last 12 months and we are seeing the Yen at a level we haven't seen for about 5 years. It is still slowly appreciating so I don't think we are done yet although I hope we don't get back to the crazy levels of 2011!

Truth is we've enjoyed absolutely golden times over the past 5 years on Seiko mechanical pricing and favourable exchange rates. The watches will not be quite the bargain that they once where but it doesn't diminish the product. Seiko mechanicals STILL have an excellent value proposition to go with some excellent designs.


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## Seikogi (May 2, 2016)

fordy964 said:


> I think there are a few things going on here.
> 
> Firstly I think Seiko have had a lot of success with their basic mechanical lines over the last 10 years and I suspect they haven't made a whole lot of money on it. Concurrent with an attempt to get GS customers paying fair market value for what GS believe is Rolex/Omega level, they also want customers in the regular mechanical lines paying fair value too versus the mid-tier Swiss like Hamilton and Tissot. It seems to be that Seiko think it's time to charge more.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with you. I do not own a SARX but I own a SARB033 and bought it in Japan for under 300€. To be honest with you, that much watch for so little money felt criminal. Its totally Seikos mistake to offer this watch at that low price point. There is no logic in watch prices because the price is not about "how good the watch is". What bothers me on the Seiko Forum is that many people do not get it and instead of appreciating watches complain and complain about prices.

Its not that the SARX is 3times the better watch. It is slightly improved with small upgrades but then again the Datejust or a GS is around 5k and offers not that much improvement either to justify the huge price difference. Still many people buy a datejust or Grand Seikos because they are willing to pay the price. This is what the market is about...

We have a free market, if you feel that the SARX033 is overpriced get yourself a watch that can do better. I own a SARB and yes it is a "better deal" but those times are over...
(but the Presage line offers nontheless excellent value for the money watches (if they weren't that bloody thick but that's another story))


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

Seikogi said:


> Its not that the SARX is 3times the better watch. It is slightly improved with small upgrades but then again the Datejust or a GS is around 5k and offers not that much improvement either to justify the huge price difference. Still many people buy a datejust or Grand Seikos because they are willing to pay the price. This is what the market is about...
> 
> We have a free market, if you feel that the SARX033 is overpriced get yourself a watch that can do better. I own a SARB and yes it is a "better deal" but those times are over...


Oh my oh my, a Datejust or a Grand Seiko is not that much improvement over an SARB/SARX?? I think most people who are interested in watches at all would disagree. Also, a Grand Seiko SBGR051 is only about 3k, not 5...but I'd take that over an SARB or SARX any day and personally I think an entry level Grand Seiko is a MUCH better deal than a Presage.

For what it's worth, I think Seiko is going up(per) market with their Presage line...sadly that unadjusted movement is really no excuse.

No matter how good the case finishing is, a watch's movement is still the most important part as far as I'm concerned. And $700 for a watch with a 6R15 movement claiming +25/-15 daily rate is pathetic.

A Tissot certified chronometer (+6/-4) can be had for less...now whether you like the styling is personal, but at least it will be reasonably accurate.

http://www.jomashop.com/tissot-watch-t0064081105700.html

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## Seikogi (May 2, 2016)

mui.richard said:


> Oh my oh my, a Datejust or a Grand Seiko is not that much improvement over an SARB/SARX?? I think most people who are interested in watches at all would disagree. Also, a Grand Seiko SBGR051 is only about 3k, not 5...but I'd take that over an SARB or SARX any day and personally I think an entry level Grand Seiko is a MUCH better deal than a Presage.
> 
> For what it's worth, I think Seiko is going up(per) market with their Presage line...sadly that unadjusted movement is really no excuse.
> 
> ...


I am not saying that the price for a Datejust or GS is too high. It obviously isn't otherwise the Datejust wouldn't be a bestseller. They put more work into it, better QC and so on. However, from a rational point of view the end product isn't that much of a difference. If I put a SARB and a Datejust next to each other and look at them from a distance of 40cm I am not noticing any differences in quality. Under magnification its a different story and I understand that it matters to most people here...

Regarding Presage line and movement:
Agree with you on the unadjusted movement. My biggest hate here is the thickness. I am not sure but I would assume that its the fault of the 6RXX movements that the Presage line watches are that thick (+-14mm).


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## fordy964 (Oct 8, 2013)

Seikogi said:


> I am not saying that the price for a Datejust or GS is too high. It obviously isn't otherwise the Datejust wouldn't be a bestseller. They put more work into it, better QC and so on. However, from a rational point of view the end product isn't that much of a difference. If I put a SARB and a Datejust next to each other and look at them from a distance of 40cm I am not noticing any differences in quality. Under magnification its a different story and I understand that it matters to most people here...
> 
> Regarding Presage line and movement:
> Agree with you on the unadjusted movement. My biggest hate here is the thickness. I am not sure but I would assume that its the fault of the 6RXX movements that the Presage line watches are that thick (+-14mm).


It's just the law of diminishing returns at work.

FWIW, the Datejust is a significantly better watch in every conceivable way than a humble SARB. I have both and love 'em both for different reasons


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

Seikogi said:


> I am not saying that the price for a Datejust or GS is too high. It obviously isn't otherwise the Datejust wouldn't be a bestseller. They put more work into it, better QC and so on. However, from a rational point of view the end product isn't that much of a difference. If I put a SARB and a Datejust next to each other and look at them from a distance of 40cm I am not noticing any differences in quality. Under magnification its a different story and I understand that it matters to most people here...
> 
> Regarding Presage line and movement:
> Agree with you on the unadjusted movement. My biggest hate here is the thickness. I am not sure but I would assume that its the fault of the 6RXX movements that the Presage line watches are that thick (+-14mm).


Oh but trust me, even at 40cm you'll notice the difference between a Grand Seiko and a SARB/SARX. The way the extremely well polished hands and dial indices pick up and reflect ambient light is incredible. Cell phone photos seldom do it justice. 

And the minute you pick up and try on a GS you'll notice the bracelet is much better constructed /finished compared to the lower Seiko lines.










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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2010)

mui.richard said:


> Oh but trust me, even at 40cm you'll notice the difference between a Grand Seiko and a SARB/SARX. The way the extremely well polished hands and dial indices pick up and reflect ambient light is incredible. Cell phone photos seldom do it justice.
> 
> And the minute you pick up and try on a GS you'll notice the bracelet is much better constructed /finished compared to the lower Seiko lines.
> 
> ...


Nice GS!

It's interesting in the context of a number of the posts above that the 3 differences you pointed out between the GS and lower lines are the better constructed and finished hands, dial indices and bracelet which are the 3 primary changes between the SARB and SARX.

Now im not saying that the quality of the construction and finishing in the GS and SARX are the same but I feel like a lot of people bash the SARX because they feel that the aesthetic differences don't justify the price leap but the same characteristics are the most common differences that are discussed when comparing Seiko's to Grand Seiko's.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Nice GS!
> 
> It's interesting in the context of a number of the posts above that the 3 differences you pointed out between the GS and lower lines are the better constructed and finished hands, dial indices and bracelet which are the 3 primary changes between the SARB and SARX.
> 
> Now im not saying that the quality of the construction and finishing in the GS and SARX are the same but I feel like a lot of people bash the SARX because they feel that the aesthetic differences don't justify the price leap but the same characteristics are the most common differences that are discussed when comparing Seiko's to Grand Seiko's.


I was just pointing out that the differences are noticeable. I didn't mean the aesthetics alone are worth the price difference.

Beauty is seldom skin deep....

The 9S are very accurate movements. Mine averages within +2 sec a day, and that alone is worth the extra admission for me.









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## Seikogi (May 2, 2016)

mui.richard said:


> Oh but trust me, even at 40cm you'll notice the difference between a Grand Seiko and a SARB/SARX. The way the extremely well polished hands and dial indices pick up and reflect ambient light is incredible. Cell phone photos seldom do it justice.
> 
> And the minute you pick up and try on a GS you'll notice the bracelet is much better constructed /finished compared to the lower Seiko lines.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the photo mate. Your GS looks beautiful! I think a GS belongs in every well balanced collection.. hence I will get one! Unfortunately it has to wait for now as I am currently after the Railmaster. 
The SARB greets


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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2010)

mui.richard said:


> I was just pointing out that the differences are noticeable. I didn't mean the aesthetics alone are worth the price difference.
> 
> Beauty is seldom skin deep....
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong, i'm a Grand Seiko fan and I wasn't trying to imply that you were saying that aesthetics alone justify the price difference.

I was just making a point about the SARX and saying that some people appreciate better finishing which is one of the key reasons people buy high end watches like Grand Seiko's and in the case of the SARX are willing to pay a premium for that alone over the SARB even if it means that the watch might not have the most amazing movement.


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## Toothbras (Apr 19, 2010)

El @ said:


> You haven't seen a sarb033 then.
> 
> "Movement doesn't di the watch."...
> "No lume adds quality"...
> ...


I'm an idiot, I read the thread title as sarb035, which is one of my favorite watches. Maybe I gotta get my eyes checked....lol


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Don't get me wrong, i'm a Grand Seiko fan and I wasn't trying to imply that you were saying that aesthetics alone justify the price difference.
> 
> I was just making a point about the SARX and saying that some people appreciate better finishing which is one of the key reasons people buy high end watches like Grand Seiko's and in the case of the SARX are willing to pay a premium for that alone over the SARB even if it means that the watch might not have the most amazing movement.


But I do need something more than a pretty face...unfortunately the SARX is exactly that. So the next step up, the entry level GS, is logically my choice.



Seikogi said:


> I think a GS belongs in every well balanced collection.


Not so sure if my collection is at all "balanced"...2 Seikos, 3 Tudors and 4 Rolexes, along with some others is probably more skewed than balanced I suppose.

But the 2 Seikos that I have do hold a special place in my heart...










But of all the watches I have, this is the one piece that I enjoy most. Took me a year to hunt down this pristine example, the last handwind Rolex model 6694.










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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

mui.richard said:


> For what it's worth, I think Seiko is going up(per) market with their Presage line...sadly that unadjusted movement is really no excuse.
> 
> No matter how good the case finishing is, a watch's movement is still the most important part as far as I'm concerned. And $700 for a watch with a 6R15 movement claiming +25/-15 daily rate is pathetic.
> 
> ...


That Tissot is one of the cheapest COSC Swiss watches you an get. Most ETA watches priced like Seikos (even sarx) are not regulated.

Maybe un-regulated ETAs generally run more accurately than 6r15. But I think the manufacturer's accuracy claims are about the same for both.

I think of all the affordable Swiss brands, Mido sends the most watches to COSC. But it's kind of random which models they do that with. The ones I like (aesthetically) aren't, and on top of that have the power-80 low-beat 21.6k version of the ETA.


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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

How does it work with unregulated movements?

Do they just put the thing together with the adjustment lever set to the middle and ship it like that?

If so, then I would think that if they would take the trouble wind it all the way up, listen to it on a timegrapher for a few seconds, and nudge the lever until it was running about 4 seconds fast, that would be a big improvement.

My Seikos are all over the place, but my one 6r15c is, ironically, given all the complaints about the movement, the best. It runs -0.8 spd. I doubt I'll get that lucky the next time, though.


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## mui.richard (Aug 13, 2014)

Be careful, I wrote "unadjusted", not "un-regulated". These are two different things we're talking about here. I do believe even the 4R/6R series movements have to be regulated before the watches are shipped, but they are definitely unadjusted.

AFAIK, movement adjustment requires the watchmaker to fine tune the hairspring. Whereas regulation is more or less what you described, turning of the regulation screws/lever whatever the movement has to fine tune the rate.

As you can imagine adjustment is far more demanding on the watchmaker's skill and time consuming.

A video on hairspring





Grand Seiko, shows hairspring adjustment ever so briefly @3:19





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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

I wasn't aware of the difference. I wouldn't expect them to do anything too involved except on a GS.

My slowest Seiko runs -16 spd. My fastest runs +9 spd. All my Seikos are very consistent, if kept wound up enough.

Given the wide difference in rates along with the high consistency, I think a simple regulation at one position, one temperature, and one power level would make them perform much better. And I also think Seiko doesn't do it at the factory. I think this lack of factory regulation is why their accuracy claims are so loose (e.g.+25/-15 spd for the 6r15 and +45/-35 for the 4r36).

My only gripe about something that might have to do with the hairspring or the other fancy bits is that a couple of my Seikos (the sarb033 and the skx007) run terribly slowly when near the bottom of their power reserves. The other three don't seem to care so much.

I know I should go out and find somebody to regulate them, at least the skx.


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

El @ said:


> What Sinn or anything else has to do with Seiko? If you don't get the meaning of "overpriced", I'll repeat it again:
> SARB033, about $300
> SARX033, about $900
> And these are comparable watches using the same mov.t - which cost about $100 retail.
> ...


Have you every worn a SARX? Because it blows the SARB033 away in case finishing and by an even wider margin when it comes to the bracelet.

I've had a GS snowflake and my SARX033 side by side. The SARX is finished 90-95% of the GS and the bracelet is nearly identical save the clasp on the GS is nicer. Obviously the GS has a better movement and it should for $5000 more.

The SARX is a league above the SARB and worth every penny of difference.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

lxnastynotch93 said:


> Have you every worn a SARX? Because it blows the SARB033 away in case finishing and by an even wider margin when it comes to the bracelet.


Yes, I did. The bracelet is the same construction as on SARB watches except for the butterfly clasp which makes awkward doing season change size adjustment. Polished stripes do not make a better finishing, as they 
are found on $100 Seiko 5 as well. Worth every penny? 60,000 of them.. just trying to defend the money you've spent already.
As in all threads like this people with little knowledge of the industry can only use world like screaming.. blows away.. nothing tangible or measurable.


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## dleesys (Feb 14, 2017)

Looking at them and holding them side by side, I'd say the bracelets are plenty different and not the same in construction. The middle links are chamfered alongside the polished links, and the finishing on the brushed surfaces look and feel significantly better to me than the one on the sarb. 

The 6r movement is the same, but I think it's clear for a large segment of watch enthusiasts that it's not a deal breaker. Are monsters/baby tunas overpriced? Some could say so since they've gone up to around 400-500 dollars for a watch with a 4r movement, but people are buying them for the unique finishing and design that aren't on other watches. 

I'd say the same is true for the sarx035/033, since they have a shape and finishing that is higher quality and is unique to that line. They're more eye-catching for those looking for a similar aesthetic but with less corners cut, and that's pretty much what the sarx035 is. Also, looking on SeiyaJapan and ebay, you can pick up a SARX for 738-750 USD, and a SARB for 280-350 USD, so it's closer to double the price than triple. Even with that though, it's up to the person if the higher level of finishing, diashield coating, 40mm size, drilled lugs, AR, better bracelet, etc. is worth double.

May favorite of all the "grand seiko-like"s though is still the SDGM001/003, which i can attest to being overpriced these days, if you can even find one on the market *_*


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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2010)

El @ said:


> Yes, I did. The bracelet is the same construction as on SARB watches except for the butterfly clasp which makes awkward doing season change size adjustment. Polished stripes do not make a better finishing, as they
> are found on $100 Seiko 5 as well. Worth every penny? 60,000 of them.. just trying to defend the money you've spent already.
> As in all threads like this people with little knowledge of the industry can only use world like screaming.. blows away.. nothing tangible or measurable.


I'm curious, how do you go about measuring the quality of the bracelets without it being subjective?

Maybe you could help this thread out by giving us a measured comparison of the bracelets in order to give us something tangible to base the comparison on.

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## Bosman (Jul 13, 2014)

If the sarx was priced where the sdgm was then it would be "worth it" vs the sarb. The sdgm dial, bracelet, AR coating, drilled lugs, superior fit and finish vs the sarb at 1.5 to 2 times the price. If the sarx costs 2.5 to 3 times the sarb, it is "overpriced" comparatively, but of course aesthetically that is totally in the eyes of the buyer.


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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

I don't have a dog in this fight because I've ruled out the sarx033/35 because of it's size (and the sdgm previously as well). 

But for some reason I think the thread is interesting.

I'm pretty sure I remember sdgm pricing being about the same as sarx033/35. I do remember people complaining that the sarx033/35 was considerably more expensive than the other sarx's that came before it.

I also remember a post from a guy who had either a GS sbgr051 or a 53 (I was looking for pictures and info on those GS) and either the opposite color sdgm or sarx033/35. He posted really good pictures, and commented on how close the sdgm/sarx was to his GS, and I think he specifically mentioned how impressed he was with the bracelet on the sdgm/sarx.

I really wish I could find that thread, but I've had no luck.


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

awayne said:


> I also remember a post from a guy who had either a GS sbgr051 or a 53 (I was looking for pictures and info on those GS) and either the opposite color sdgm or sarx033/35. He posted really good pictures, and commented on how close the sdgm/sarx was to his GS, and I think he specifically mentioned how impressed he was with the bracelet on the sdgm/sarx.
> 
> I really wish I could find that thread, but I've had no luck.


That could be my thread - SARX and Grand Seiko hi-beat comparison.
You probably can't find it because of my hosting stopped working, I will re-upload the pics.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f21/grand-seiko-presage-sarx-comparison-%5Bpics-heavy%5D-3738402-2.html


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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

v1triol said:


> That could be my thread - SARX and Grand Seiko hi-beat comparison.
> You probably can't find it because of my hosting stopped working, I will re-upload the pics.
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f21/grand-seiko-presage-sarx-comparison-%5Bpics-heavy%5D-3738402-2.html


Yes! It was your thread. Thank you.


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## fordy964 (Oct 8, 2013)

v1triol said:


> That could be my thread - SARX and Grand Seiko hi-beat comparison.
> You probably can't find it because of my hosting stopped working, I will re-upload the pics.
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f21/grand-seiko-presage-sarx-comparison-%5Bpics-heavy%5D-3738402-2.html
> ...


Great thread!

It's clear the SARX is a lot closer to a GS than you'd imagine and certainly a whole stride forward from the SARB with some great steps forward on the bracelet especially. I'm looking forward to handling one. That GS though! Case polishing is miles better. Details on the dial, markers and hands are better in every way. Bracelet construction is better (screws versus pins). Movement is another world obviously. Overall I think the GS is worth the money (to me & recognising the law of diminishing returns bites hard with luxury watches) but it's hard to justify over that SARX for the money. On the other hand the SARX versus SARB looks much easier to justify!

Bravo!


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I'm curious, how do you go about measuring the quality of the bracelets without it being subjective?
> 
> Maybe you could help this thread out by giving us a measured comparison of the bracelets in order to give us something tangible to base the comparison on.


This exactly. Certainly there are objective ways of measuring the quality of bracelets. The level of steel used is one. Whether there are solid versus hollow end links is another. The gaps between bracelet links and bracelet and lug is another. Even then, comparison of bracelets is mostly subjective, driven by preference, and is in the eye of the beholder.

A problem in any watch discussion is that so much of what people consider to be "overpriced" is based not on any objective evidence, but on what they "think" or prefer. Considering the fact that any smartphone or $5 Paw Patrol-branded digital can tell time as accurately as any quartz and more-accurately than any mechanical, all watches can be considered "overpriced".

Once that is accepted, all that matters is which "overpriced" hunk of metal and glass you will buy with the cash in your wallet.



fordy964 said:


> Great thread!
> 
> It's clear the SARX is a lot closer to a GS than you'd imagine and certainly a whole stride forward from the SARB with some great steps forward on the bracelet especially. I'm looking forward to handling one. That GS though! Case polishing is miles better. Details on the dial, markers and hands are better in every way. Bracelet construction is better (screws versus pins). Movement is another world obviously. Overall I think the GS is worth the money (to me & recognising the law of diminishing returns bites hard with luxury watches) but it's hard to justify over that SARX for the money. On the other hand the SARX versus SARB looks much easier to justify!


From where I sit, the Grand Seiko beats the SARX in movement and case finishing. The dials, in this case for me, are of equal weight, and the SARX's bracelet is nice enough. If anything, based on my experiences (again, subjective), the bracelets on some of Seiko's lower-priced watches can be better than those on the Grand Seiko. But even then, as I said above, it is all subjective.

Ultimately, people should just enjoy their watches, not get into pissing matches that are meaningless in the context of what watch you want to wear.


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## riposte (Nov 6, 2015)

Wow it's true, SARX035/033 is better if using SDGM hands
How much the hands and cost to change it at the watchmaker?


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

I was going to start an argument on this thread but have decided to keep it civil.

Here's a picture of my SARX033:


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

lxnastynotch93 said:


> I was going to start an argument on this thread but have decided to keep it civil.
> 
> Here's a picture of my SARX033:


No need to argue: It is a beautiful watch!


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## fordy964 (Oct 8, 2013)

Sevenmack said:


> Ultimately, people should just enjoy their watches, not get into pissing matches that are meaningless in the context of what watch you want to wear.


I never once got the impression that this thread was in any way shape or form a pissing match! A discussion of quality vs value perhaps.

It starts with the need for folk to try to justify the price hike of the 6R15 watches recently and in this case establishing that its the overall finishing of the watch that sets a SARX apart for the SARB. Fair enough right? I'm a SARB owner and am curious about this SARX035. The GS was brought in to put the SARX finishing into context and so it was informative (to me at least).


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

riposte said:


> Wow it's true, SARX035/033 is better if using SDGM hands
> How much the hands and cost to change it at the watchmaker?


IIRC the hands cost $35.

Also, I did the attempt to install 50 years old hands from Sportsmatic.
They were bit too short, but were more GS-style, still I liked it a lot. Here are few shots.


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## Usui (Feb 13, 2009)

Just ordered a SARX033 myself. From Seiya. It arrived from Japan to California in 5 days. Amazing turn around. 


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## glengoyne17 (May 29, 2011)

Usui said:


> Just ordered a SARX033 myself. From Seiya. It arrived from Japan to California in 5 days. Amazing turn around.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Congrats! Please post some pictures, this watch does not get the attention it deserves,
And being a JDM is hard to see before you buy.

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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

v1triol said:


> Also, I did the attempt to install 50 years old hands from Sportsmatic.
> They were bit too short, but were more GS-style, still I liked it a lot. Here are few shots.
> 
> View attachment 11495962


That isn't too shabby! b-)


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

I'm back on this thread because I was itching today... I was looking at used samples the Enamel and Urushi dial 6R15s online and I couldn't help but noticed all the swirling and light scratches. I was thinking why did all the used examples look poorly (compared to the the SARX), and then I remembered of course it was the diashield treatment. Now with the recall of that fact, I'm not even sure I want a Enamel/Urushi anymore unless they put diashield on it.

And now back to the SARX... I know its a Seiya picture but when I saw it again, it brought a smile to my face:


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

mrfourcows said:


> I'm back on this thread because I was itching today... I was looking at used samples the Enamel and Urushi dial 6R15s online and I couldn't help but noticed all the swirling and light scratches. I was thinking why did all the used examples look poorly (compared to the the SARX), and then I remembered of course it was the diashield treatment. Now with the recall of that fact, I'm not even sure I want a Enamel/Urushi anymore unless they put diashield on it.


None of the Urushi or Enamel dials come on bracelets so scratches and swirling is limited to the case. I like to think people who have purchased them generally take good care of them and only the roughed up ones are put back on the secondary market.


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

mrfourcows said:


> I'm back on this thread because I was itching today... I was looking at used samples the Enamel and Urushi dial 6R15s online and I couldn't help but noticed all the swirling and light scratches. I was thinking why did all the used examples look poorly (compared to the the SARX), and then I remembered of course it was the diashield treatment. Now with the recall of that fact, I'm not even sure I want a Enamel/Urushi anymore unless they put diashield on it.
> 
> And now back to the SARX... I know its a Seiya picture but when I saw it again, it brought a smile to my face:
> View attachment 11614442


The Urushi dial watches are gorgeous and finely crafted. They're also much dressier than the do-it-all SARX.

I'm coming up on a year of owning mine and that's a milestone considering how I cycle through watches very frequently. It's been one of the best watches I've ever owned. I don't think I'll ever sell it unless it's being replaced with an SBGA011 snowflake.


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## bmdaia (Aug 14, 2015)

Yes overpriced. Seiko cannot manufacture provenance. GS and the (real) Tunas are what they are because generations of craftsmen invested their soul into these timeless icons. JC Penny's everywhere are full of $275 Seikos that will always cost $275. It just is what it is.


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## Usui (Feb 13, 2009)

bmdaia said:


> Yes overpriced. Seiko cannot manufacture provenance. GS and the (real) Tunas are what they are because generations of craftsmen invested their soul into these timeless icons. JC Penny's everywhere are full of $275 Seikos that will always cost $275. It just is what it is.


Huh ?
Provenance?
Generations?
JC Penny?
$275?

I don't think I follow your argument for why SARX are overpriced. Stringing those statements together makes for a non-sequitur for me.

For my own argument as to why I bought a SARX over a SARB:
The shiny bits and facets on the bracelet I like more
I like the blue hands
I like the anti reflective coating on the crystal
I have a dia-shield shogun and I really like the dia shield treatment
I like the larger diameter

Those were enough reasons for me to throw more cash down.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dleesys (Feb 14, 2017)

bmdaia said:


> Yes overpriced. Seiko cannot manufacture provenance. GS and the (real) Tunas are what they are because generations of craftsmen invested their soul into these timeless icons. JC Penny's everywhere are full of $275 Seikos that will always cost $275. It just is what it is.


I have no idea what this has to do with the thread lol


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

dleesys said:


> bmdaia said:
> 
> 
> > Yes overpriced. Seiko cannot manufacture provenance. GS and the (real) Tunas are what they are because generations of craftsmen invested their soul into these timeless icons. JC Penny's everywhere are full of $275 Seikos that will always cost $275. It just is what it is.
> ...


Seiko cannot manufacture cheeseburgers either. Oh wait, maybe they can but that is not what they are trying to do with the SARX035 or is anyone saying they are. That would be ridiculous. Stop being ridiculous, people. C'mon!


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> None of the Urushi or Enamel dials come on bracelets so scratches and swirling is limited to the case. I like to think people who have purchased them generally take good care of them and only the roughed up ones are put back on the secondary market.


Yeah, but the swirls on the side of the case made me unpleased :/


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

A head to head.

I just got a used SDGM003 in from Japan. I decided to get the less common black variant because I thought it matches better with the black onyx crown.

The size of the heads are very similar as we know - and its small differences between the 2 models that have them spoken in the same breath a lot.

- Dial: Colour aside, both have sunburst dials. The SDGM Grand Cocktail has a more pronounced effect, and it doesn't take much effort to see the sunburst. The SARX "Grand Cocktail II" on the other hand has a more subtle effect - but if you look at it in person, you will appreciate the little shine.

- Hands: The SDGM has clear straight sword hands; while the SARX is largely similar, the shape is more rounded in its appearance - this is most obvious on the hour hands where there is a taper at the terminal 1/3 of the hand.

- Indices: While looking largely similar, the indices once again have slight differences. Also, the SDGM only has double indices at 12 o'clock, while the SARX has double indices at 12, 3, 6, 9 o'clock.

- Chapter Ring: The SDGM has bolder markers at every 5 minutes compared to the SARX. I think, together with the different font of the Automatic, this makes the SDGM look more strong while the SARX has a more delicate feel.

- Bracelet: While both are 3-part 20mm bracelets that once again look very similar, the proportion of the center part are actually slightly different - the SDGM is broader in the middle than the SARX. Deployant clasps look very similar too... FYI, the part number for the depolyant clasp are MOYY.Z.C and MOZL.Y.C for the SARX and SDGM respectively.

- Crown: This one, is finally less similar. The SDGM has that protruding onyx and the SARX is more discreet with a signed crown.

So overall, which do I prefer? I think on the whole, the SARX is the prettier proposition - I like how it looks more refined (you can disagree of course), has no drilled lugs, and with its more subtle dial less in-your-face. That said, I think its nice to have something different rather than just black and white versions of the same watch.

Then again, with both models being so similar, to the uninitiated, you might just believe me if I said that the differences were down to the fact that one is a black version and one is white - a bit like having different pokemon in your pokemon red and pokemon blue.


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## v1triol (Jul 21, 2015)

@mrfourcows, Niiice pick-up with SDGM!

You are right that clasps are practically the same, but because of end-links construction the bracelets are not interchangeable.


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## Usui (Feb 13, 2009)

glengoyne17 said:


> Congrats! Please post some pictures, this watch does not get the attention it deserves,
> And being a JDM is hard to see before you buy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not a great photographer but here you go. I'm really enjoying it.



























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## glengoyne17 (May 29, 2011)

Usui said:


> I'm not a great photographer but here you go. I'm really enjoying it.
> 
> View attachment 11654546
> View attachment 11654562
> ...


That looks stunning! Congrats and thanks for sharing!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dleesys (Feb 14, 2017)

mrfourcows said:


> A head to head.
> 
> I just got a used SDGM003 in from Japan. I decided to get the less common black variant because I thought it matches better with the black onyx crown.
> 
> The size of the heads are very similar as we know - and its small differences between the 2 models that have them spoken in the same breath a lot.


Great comparison! I have both as well, as two sides of a (dress) coin |>

I love the pristine and sharp look of the sarx, esp with its elongated minute hand. It's far dressier looking and looks amazing with a leather strap, which I think will be what mine will be on 90% of the time.

The sdgm stays on the bracelet because I feel it's a "showier" sporty dress piece with a lot of reflective parts. The polished bezel is a bit bigger than on the sarx and the biggest difference I noticed when comparing the two were actually the indices.

The indices on the sdgm have incredibly fine machining lines and bevels that go down the tops of each one that does a lot to catch a ton of extra light and adds more "light movement" to the watch face. The indices of the sarx have broader flat-topped indices that still catch a lot of light, but might look a little flat compared to the sdgm.

I really like the case differences between the two models, and appreciate them whenever i put them on. The sarx has all-polished sides with a sharp angular case shape compared to sdgm's more subtle brushed/polished sides and longer lugs.

They may look very similar at first glance but they have a LOT of subtle and not-so-subtle differences that make me appreciate the distinct personalities of each! I won't be wanting for a dress watch unless something really special comes around with these two in my collection, that's for sure.


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

dleesys said:


> The indices on the sdgm have incredibly fine machining lines and bevels that go down the tops of each one that does a lot to catch a ton of extra light and adds more "light movement" to the watch face. The indices of the sarx have broader flat-topped indices that still catch a lot of light, but might look a little flat compared to the sdgm.


I agree. If anything, the SDGM is too reflective - I keep seeing "marks" on my crystal, where it is actually internal reflection of light...


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

bmdaia said:


> Yes overpriced. Seiko cannot manufacture provenance. GS and the (real) Tunas are what they are because generations of craftsmen invested their soul into these timeless icons. JC Penny's everywhere are full of $275 Seikos that will always cost $275. It just is what it is.


Seiko can't manufacture provenance? You mean like the spring drive which took 30 years to develop and is the most important horological event since the water tight case and crown.

What you're saying is that because Seiko recognizes a market (especially in the US) where people want affordable watches, that it somehow devalues the brand. Who cares if they sell less expensive watches. Seiko has more horological significance than many other brands, which are artificially priced to astronomical levels.

You know what my favorite part about wearing my SARX is?

It's the moment when I go into a jewelry store full of certain "highly regarded brands", get asked what I'm wearing, and utter the word "Seiko". I get to watch the salesperson's face turn sour with disappointment. It's like clockwork and it makes me smile every time it happens.

There's a huge difference between department store grade Seiko and their Presage, Brightz, and Grand Seiko offerings. If you can't appreciate the watch for its craftsmanship then I suggest buying something else that's several times more expensive for lesser quality. You'll have a watch which has "manufactured provenance" written all over the dial


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

lxnastynotch93 said:


> You mean like the spring drive which took 30 years to develop and is the most important horological event since the water tight case and crown.


SHUT UP!

How can you not even mention "most important horological event" and "iWatch" in the same sentence? You know how long it took apple to scale that touch screen from the iPod to the iPhone to the iPad, and finally learn enough to make that same brilliant retina screen onto a watch you can wear?! o|

Some people... :roll:


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

lxnastynotch93 said:


> It's the moment when I go into a jewelry store full of certain "highly regarded brands", get asked what I'm wearing, and utter the word "Seiko". I get to watch the salesperson's face turn sour with disappointment. It's like clockwork and it makes me smile every time it happens.


Though it could be:

A. Like you said, salesperson is jealous that Seiko can make such wonderful watches

B. Salesperson thinks you have no money, and only enough money to afford a Seiko - hence the disappointment that they won't be making any commission that day.


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

mrfourcows said:


> Though it could be:
> 
> B. Salesperson thinks you have no money, and only enough money to afford a Seiko - hence the disappointment that they won't be making any commission that day.


To be honest this is the sad reality. Like clockwork, they proceed to direct me towards the Tag Heuer case, in comical desperation, thinking "He's too poor for an 'xyz'".

I'll tell you, wristwatch sales in the US are sad. I've been to only one AD where I felt welcomed and alas they sold GS and Prospex Seiko lines.


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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2010)

lxnastynotch93 said:


> To be honest this is the sad reality. Like clockwork, they proceed to direct me towards the Tag Heuer case, in comical desperation, thinking "He's too poor for an 'xyz'".
> 
> I'll tell you, wristwatch sales in the US are sad. I've been to only one AD where I felt welcomed and alas they sold GS and Prospex Seiko lines.


Maybe it's a difference in cultures but I've been into a number of AD's here in Australia who sell Swiss brands and sales reps don't seem to treat me differently because I'm wearing a Seiko, I'm usually wearing a suit or nice clothes when I go on though which I think is profiled more than what watch I'm wearing.

At one AD the rep asked if he could have a better look at my cocktail time when I set it down to try on a watch and seemed genuinely interested in it despite working at a fairly high end store (they carry Patek, Piaget, Rolex etc..).


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

The younger staff at most authorized dealers in the San Francisco Bay Area seem to respect Seiko and get excited when the banter shifts to Grand Seiko. The older sales reps are more often the stuffy Swiss or nothing types.

Back to the SARX035...I wonder if the larger size is to better set it apart from the SARB033. I know the JDM dress watches have hovered around 40mm recently which I find odd because of the nice 36-39mm models that came about five years ago like the Blue Spark, SARB031 and their respective variants. Is Seiko late to the party on the big watch trend or is 40mm simply the trendy size in the Japanese domestic market?


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## awayne (Aug 21, 2016)

The almost 41mm size is too big for me for a dress watch. For me the size of the sarb033 is just right. I wish Seiko made something better in this style that was the same size as the sarb.

I really dig the sarx033/35 and sdgms. I think there aren't any dressy bracelet watches that look better made by anybody for less money, and not even for more money until you get into Grand Seikos.

I guess the only negative thing I have to say is that I'd sort of be a little apprehensive buying one because Seiko doesn't seem to pledge serviceability the way even the mid-range Swiss brands do. 

But to me, none of those Swiss watches priced south of Grand Seikos look anywhere near as good as the $800 sarxes and sdgms.


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Maybe it's a difference in cultures but I've been into a number of AD's here in Australia who sell Swiss brands and sales reps don't seem to treat me differently because I'm wearing a Seiko, I'm usually wearing a suit or nice clothes when I go on though which I think is profiled more than what watch I'm wearing.
> 
> At one AD the rep asked if he could have a better look at my cocktail time when I set it down to try on a watch and seemed genuinely interested in it despite working at a fairly high end store (they carry Patek, Piaget, Rolex etc..).


It also could be that, like most good salespeople, he knows that the easiest way to win a sale is to compliment the good tastes of the potential buyer, even if he doesn't really mean it.


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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2010)

Sevenmack said:


> It also could be that, like most good salespeople, he knows that the easiest way to win a sale is to compliment the good tastes of the potential buyer, even if he doesn't really mean it.


Maybe, he knew what it was and referred to it as a Cocktail Time before I said anything about what it was so I assume he had at least some level of interest in Seiko.


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> Maybe, he knew what it was and referred to it as a Cocktail Time before I said anything about what it was so I assume he had at least some level of interest in Seiko.


The young security guard at the Cartier boutique in Chicago said "Nice Seiko" to me last year when I was wearing my Cocktail Time. He clearly recognized it from afar. The sales reps said nothing.


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> The young security guard at the Cartier boutique in Chicago said "Nice Seiko" to me last year when I was wearing my Cocktail Time. He clearly recognized it from afar. The sales reps said nothing.


Real recognize real.


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

lxnastynotch93 said:


> To be honest this is the sad reality. Like clockwork, they proceed to direct me towards the Tag Heuer case, in comical desperation, thinking "He's too poor for an 'xyz'".





[email protected] said:


> Maybe it's a difference in cultures but I've been into a number of AD's here in Australia who sell Swiss brands and sales reps don't seem to treat me differently because I'm wearing a Seiko, I'm usually wearing a suit or nice clothes when I go on though which I think is profiled more than what watch I'm wearing.


I think that's it, isn't it? Just quick sieving so they *think* they are not wasting their time.


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## mrfourcows (Aug 3, 2014)

awayne said:


> I guess the only negative thing I have to say is that I'd sort of be a little apprehensive buying one because Seiko doesn't seem to pledge serviceability the way even the mid-range Swiss brands do.


Serviceability of a 6R movement? :-s


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

mrfourcows said:


> awayne said:
> 
> 
> > I guess the only negative thing I have to say is that I'd sort of be a little apprehensive buying one because Seiko doesn't seem to pledge serviceability the way even the mid-range Swiss brands do.
> ...


As a certain abrasive forum member has pointed out over and over (and over) again, the 6R movement descends from the 7S architecture so service, parts, drop-in movements and donor parts are plentiful.


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## rytec (Dec 7, 2016)

After selling my SARX035 in the beginning of this year, because I boughted another watch and had to free some money, I really missed it and wanted one back, two weeks ago I finaly could buy one and now I will keep it. 
It's my "baby" Grand Seiko.
Who knows, maybe I will have the possibility to buy a real Grand Seiko.
I'm very happy with this one, again !


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## dleesys (Feb 14, 2017)

having a sdgm and a sarx really does curb me from lusting after a GS. I would still love to get one eventually of course, but I'm in no rush. Glad that you were able to reunite with a keeper!


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## Chronopolis (Apr 8, 2009)

Mr. James Duffy said:


> Counterpoint: I get pretty damn emotional half-way through a 12-pack of instant ramen because I am broke after having spent too much money on obsolete technology again.


Add Sriracha for a positively "Wagnerian" swelling of "emotions"... 
That extra boost in "verklempt" somehow lessens the sordidity of it all, by adding an element of the Tragic. :-!

PS: I'd love to have a SARX035 - but the white dial equivalent - but for $200 less. I think $600 ish would be reasonable.


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## datglasstho (Dec 6, 2017)

Ordered a SARX035 yesterday. It'll end up being my dressy black dial watch. Grabbed a second hand SARB earlier in the year but I think it looks too small on me and I never wear it. Going to look into selling it here once I meet the requirements to do so.


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## datglasstho (Dec 6, 2017)

Just came in today from Seiya. Absolutely loving it. The bit of extra size works so much better for me than the 38mm case of the SARB and the bracelet is immensely better. For what it's worth (not much I'm sure), though this watch on Seiya is pictured with the 6R15C mine came with the D revision. Now I just need to sell the SARB to recoup some of the costs.


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## jonsix33 (Jul 2, 2015)

Better finish, better bracelet, size you want, none of the things that you dont like in other models.... DO IT haha


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## datglasstho (Dec 6, 2017)

Hmm, well last night it stopped working sometime after 3AM. With some hand winding the second hand was jittery bouncing back and forth and then stopped again. Pulled out the crown and moved the time forward when there was a distinct click, then it resumed working. Also the date change didn't take place and seemed stuck about halfway.

So that's a bit worrying and I hope it doesn't happen again.


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## datglasstho (Dec 6, 2017)

So glad I got this piece. After the scare of my prior post on the first night, it's been averaging -0.8 s/d for me.


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## balagee (Feb 18, 2012)

From the SARX line, still the 035 is the best.

I am very pleased with mine.


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## Pyrolistical (Nov 22, 2017)

If you ignore the movements for a moment, SARX035 is a steal compared to SBGV207, and is miles ahead of SARB033.

Personally I don't care about movement, I'd wear a quartz.


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## Aop (Dec 19, 2017)

Dunelm said:


> I feel much the same way. To me the design looks a bit 'over-inflated' to reach an overall width and it's ended up with a touch too much dial for my liking. I like long hands but I'm not keen on the curved edges.
> I'll pass on this one and hold on to my money until maybe someday this search will once more return more than 0 results...
> 
> View attachment 8284098


there are now 8 results, in 2017


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## Aop (Dec 19, 2017)

El @ said:


> I completely disagree. Fortunately not everyone buys by looks only, even if many makers are there trying to fool people in buying crap for 100 times the production cost. It is instead very good to learn and understand what value really is, which is a fundamental element to rational purchasing.


If what you say is true, then 95% of the swiss watch companies should be bankrupt.


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## scottconn170 (Feb 24, 2017)

chillwill120 said:


> Ok, but that doesn't change my answer to the question:
> 
> The main complaint against the cost seems to be the use of the 6r15. Well then, how would the same complaintnants feel about the cost if the movement was an ETA 2824?
> 
> My answer is still that I would feel better about the ETA 2824, even a base version, and if it was a higher grade, even better.


Ok I see all the debate around the 6r15. As a preface I own Rolex, IWC, JLC and Seiko watches. Out of the bunch, want to know what watch keeps the consistently best time at a +1-2 second per day average? My $700 SBDC53 with the 6r15....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## joelbny (Jan 9, 2012)

Does anyone have pics of the SARX033 and the SARX057 together? How do they compare? I can't find reviews or comparisons with the 057 anywhere, only mentions of the 055 snowflake.


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## scottconn170 (Feb 24, 2017)

I have a NIB SARX033 for sale in the sales corner..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Premise (Jul 31, 2016)

scottconn170 said:


> Ok I see all the debate around the 6r15. As a preface I own Rolex, IWC, JLC and Seiko watches. Out of the bunch, want to know what watch keeps the consistently best time at a +1-2 second per day average? My $700 SBDC53 with the 6r15....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


While that can be true some of the time, I've never had any 6R15s stay super accurate. They always drift and slow for me over time. My new SARB starting doing this too and so did my SARX.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

There can be few who can call the looks of the SARX035 into question. It’s expensive (I wouldn’t say VERY) compared to other Seikos but it’s not bad when you look at it and see what you get for your money.


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## Premise (Jul 31, 2016)

sticky said:


> There can be few who can call the looks of the SARX035 into question. It's expensive (I wouldn't say VERY) compared to other Seikos but it's not bad when you look at it and see what you get for your money.


True. Sometimes I wish I kept mine. It's the best finished Seiko I've owned. The MM300 while nice felt a bit sloppy especially comparing the bracelets.


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## barihunk (Jul 2, 2012)

Premise said:


> While that can be true some of the time, I've never had any 6R15s stay super accurate. They always drift and slow for me over time. My new SARB starting doing this too and so did my SARX.


How long Ong did this take to happen? I'm presuming this is easily fixed by regulation by a watchmaker, but I would be interested to know if this is on the order of a year or 4-5 years, and by approximately how much...


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## farquha (Mar 3, 2018)

I like the lume on the sarb. I know a dress watch (if you can call it that) doesn't need lume. 6r is a 6r though and double the price for fancy finishing, as nice as it is, doesn't justify the difference for me. It's still is a very nice piece. 

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## Premise (Jul 31, 2016)

barihunk said:


> How long Ong did this take to happen? I'm presuming this is easily fixed by regulation by a watchmaker, but I would be interested to know if this is on the order of a year or 4-5 years, and by approximately how much...


Usually 6-8 months in which is highly frustrating because every example was insanely accurate staying dead on or a second or two fast and then goes to losing around 5 seconds a day. I don't own a ton of watches and my job relies on having accurate timing and it sucks when accuracy shifts. Mechanical is definitely not the best choice for my job, but it's what I prefer.


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

I _finally_ got around to adding the SARX035 to my collection. Rather than start a new thread just tacking on here. The question at hand is whether or not this watch is worth the price. Always subjective, but for me definitely. The design, fit and finish are outstanding. I tire of "it's too big" commentary for a watch that is a very modest 40mm and fits well within the confines of a 7" wrist, offering ample wrist presence without looking delicate nor overbearing. Those opinions aside...

View attachment 13981357


It's been noted elsewhere how the dial can present as glossy black or a copper/chocolate brown sunburst depending on the sunlight...

















The case lines are beautiful, the finishing very crisp...









Dial detail is superb. Applied logo, very clean printed 'Automatic' script. Faceted and ribbed applied markers catch tonnes of light. I would have preferred straight edges to the hands but these are still very nice, and it's not always evident in product photos that the finishing is half-and-half polished and brushed. Legibility is always very good as a result.









The anti-reflective treatment on the crystal is very effective, more often than not it simply disappears.









With mine at least the accuracy over a week of wear has been outstanding. Tale of the tape as recorded by Hairspring and WatchTracker apps...



























Over the last week during normal wear, with resting overnight in the crown down position to chew up daily gains, I'm tracking at +0.3spd. Average positional rate is +5.3spd with the biggest variance at +11.9spd resting dial up. Zero complaints.

As for the bracelet it of course uses Seiko's reviled pin-and-collar system. But in my experience it was way easier to adjust than the Sumo or Turtle bracelets. Don't know why, perhaps experience. That aside with the addition of half-links I was able to size perfectly. The fit and finish is very good, better than any of my other Seiko bracelets. The outside edges of the inner links could be smoother, and there is a slight gap between the closed clasp and adjacent link but otherwise there is nothing that has me wanting a replacement bracelet. Or for that matter even wanting to take it off.

I think this is a beautiful, flexible timepiece that perfectly complements my Seiko divers and watch collection in general.


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## Tom Schneider (Apr 8, 2012)

I have a SARX035 and paid the price but for the quality and details it is a fantastic watch. I have a 7.5” wrist with wide hands so the SARBs looks too small which is what drove me to pick up a SARX035. For me the size is perfect with a quality level that really has to be seen up close to appreciate. Certainly not a watch for everyone but it’s a great dress type watch for me.


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## jkingrph (Feb 6, 2018)

Got my first watch back about 1958-59 when I was in the 8th grade, a Wyler manual wind. I still have it, and word it daily through high school, college, and the first few years of my USAF service. No computers or atomic clocks in those days, so would occasionally check time on the radio or TV. About 1970 I picked up a Seiko Bellmatic and wore it constantly for 7-8 years, again no computer or atomic clock service, so same means of checking time. Clocks in my USAF duty section were not all that accurate either. I then picked up a Seiko quartz and was amazed at how was constantly accurate, not deviating much over months of time. I never really tried to check daily or weekly accuracy of those earlier manual or automatic watches, as long as I could check them every few days or weeks. How many jobs require such 2-3 seconds per day variance in accuracy?? I always got to classes on time, appointments, or my duty /work . 


Even now my method of setting a watch if hackable is to stop it on a minute with second hand at 12 'oclock, then watch a little weather station/atomic clock or my computer. Atomic clock is probably more precise but cannot be sure. Computer I have my doubts. My internet is via cable and then wi fi. I do notice that there is a time lag for sound from main living room tv and bedroom tv if on same channel of a second or so, which makes me wonder how accurate the internet time might be.


In reality a couple of minutes variance a day is no big deal for me.


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## wkw (Feb 12, 2006)

mitchjrj;
I think this is a beautiful said:


> Great write up. I'm wearing mine today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## gwilder (Aug 16, 2017)

mitchjrj said:


> . I tire of "it's too big" commentary for a watch that is a very modest 40mm and fits well within the confines of a 7" wrist, offering ample wrist presence without looking delicate nor overbearing.
> 
> This is very helpful to hear, as I've admired this watch for years but have never seen it in the metal and continue to worry about it being oversized (for my approx. 7" wrist, maybe a tiny bit under). I'd wear it as an everyday watch (have other dressier dress watches) -- the way one might wear a Rolex OP 36 (I'm NOT comparing the two). Can I ask whether you wear it as a versatile everyday watch or reserve more for dress watch duty? Have you tried it on leather straps? Thanks!


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