# Fortis Quality Control Part 2?



## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

Today I noticed that my day wheel is not aligning up with date wheel on B-42 Cosmonaut Ti. Immediately walk over to my friend's office, who purchased a B-42 date/day after seeing my watch, I examed his. Of course, he's watch is flawless. The date/day wheels on his watch align up perfectly.

I'm glad I caught this since my watch is less than a month old. I immediately contacted the AD. The AD is contacting the Fortis Rep about this issue and I should hear back from my AD soon. Meanwhile, take a look at those pictures. My question to you all is, is this something that can be fixed easily by adjusting the day wheel?


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## gooter (Mar 17, 2008)

I dont know if it's easy to fix, but that would drive me crazy! I hate little things like that. Hopefully they'll fix it, keep us updated, all this quality control/lack of customer service talk on here is scaring me away from my first Fortis.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2008)

Little update. I though this was isolated incident, however, it's not. We examined my buddy's Fortis more closely today. Guess what, the day wheel on his watch is also crooked. We realize that if the date is in single digit, it does not look that miss aligned. However, if the date is double, then the day and date does not align up. 

I contacted the AD again to report that my buddy's watch is also out of alignment, AD checked his Fortis Date/Day he has in stock. It appears that the new watch is also crooked.

We are still waiting to hear back from the Fortis Rep. but I'm bit dissapointed that Fortis' QC pass the watches with this issue. Now, my buddy is bothered by the alignment issue.


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## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

oh man, sorry to hear about this issue Sang.
To me, the date window doesn't look bad but the day window surely does!
I'd be peeved by it too.
I think its a matter of moving the wheel by one cog/tooth to get it aligned perfectly.
Its most likely that you'll have to end up sending it to PWH (Providence Watch Hospital) to have it repaired.
That does suck to have to do on a 1 month old watch.
Wonder if it appeared straight when you got it but possibly jumped a cog/tooth since
that time?

best,
Steven


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2008)

Hey Steven,

Yeah.. I'm going crazy over this. Anyway, my buddy also bought a fortis (2 weeks after I did) from same AD have this issue as well. Now the date/day thing is really bothering him too. We are thinking maybe a bad batch?

I don't like the fact that I have to send the watch to get it repair when the watch is less than a month old. Not good. We will see. My wife thinks that I should get a different model. Maybe she will let me upgrade to more expensive Fortis, perhaps a Fortis B-42 Pilot Professional Chrono GMT.... well if the AD and Fortis let me return the miss aligned watch.


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## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

I too would be peeved by the misaligned wheel Sang.
Nor would I want to have to send a watch out for repair, and be without it, 
after having it only one month.
keep me posted and good luck to you and your friend!
-Steven


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2008)

Ok. Things are looking up.

My AD contacted the Fortis Rep and this was the Fortis Rep's response to my AD:

* "He can send the watch to Providence Watch Hospital. It can be fixed quite easily and will be covered under warranty. Let me know if you need my help with it. Let me also know the ticket number when you send it and I'll call them directly to expedite the repair time."
* 
Although I have the option of sending the watch in for repair, thanks to my wife (allowed me to get a better model) and the AD (who will go extra miles to keep the customers happy), I've opted to get a different model of Fortis instead. So I'm sending my Ti back to AD.

Stay tuned and pictures of the new watch will be up soon.

Ops, I forgot, Thanks again Steven for hooking me up with a great AD. Greg is awesome! :-!


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## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

hey Sang... 
yeah my boy Greg is a really great guy.
You really can't find a better AD anywhere!

so, your wife let you upgrade... that must have taken some serious booty kissin'? (haha)

post pics of the new one when you get it!

really glad things worked out for you and that Fortis' response was an amicable one.


-Steven


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## toolio (Jun 29, 2008)

i had a FORTIS B-42 diver chronograph with the same problem with the day wheel. they changed the watch for a new one but on this one i had several other problems. first i noticed ( a little late)that the sec hand of the chrono didn't mark the center of the "12", then the little lume dot on the bezel fell just off one day. quite disappointed with fortis quality over all i must say. i gave it back and now have a fabulous EDOX class 1....

my brother by the way has a FORTIS off cosmonaut GMT and just had to send it back for the watch lost its black ring which seems to be glued onto the bezel...

hum....


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## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

sorry to hear of your issues with Fortis.
as for the bezel, it has a very similar setup as many many other brands...
the 'insert' as well as the lumed PIP are both glued to the bezel.
EDOX is a very nice brand as well and I like my Class 1 very much.
I hope your small issue with the lume PIP didn't turn you away from Fortis?!
;-)


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## SJACKAL (Mar 2, 2006)

I am very sorry to hear about this. Well as a Fortis fan too, I must say I really like their tech watches but unfortunately problems just pops up here and there. I am on a fence on something and I am hesitant too.


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

I am facing this same alignment issue with the Day and Date wheels of my new Pilot Pro. Are others still seeing this issue with their 2836-2 movements in the B-42 or Pilot Pro models?

The misalignment seems to vary over time as well (similar to RAREM5's experience), which does not make sense to me. Maybe it's the different lighting creating optical illusions.

Unsure whether to live with it, send to PWH for warranty repair, or return to the AD for a new model.


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

I have this exact same issue. I noticed it too the very first day. It's most glaring sometimes, whereas on occasion I don't quite notice it. I'm going to show it to my AD tomo. Great thread this...I thought I was being a little too finicky when I first noticed it.


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

razer,
Please let us know what you learn from the AD tomorrow. I do not have a local AD.


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## HappyJack (Mar 31, 2008)

RAREM5 said:


> Ok. Things are looking up.
> 
> Although I have the option of sending the watch in for repair, thanks to my wife (allowed me to get a better model) and the AD (who will go extra miles to keep the customers happy), I've opted to get a different model of Fortis instead. /quote]
> 
> Are you going with the Pilot Pro GMT?


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

Hi Guys,

My local AD is more than happy to have it fixed here locally, and is ready to have my new watch fully serviced for free if I so wanted. They said it would be minor adjustment for the day/date wheel... 

Am not sure if I should give it in or not. Am wondering if I should do it. Any thoughts guys?


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## HappyJack (Mar 31, 2008)

Is it about what the AD will do for you or what the wife will sign off? Get Financial Controller approval is usually the hardest part of any watch buying decision - so if she's happy for you to upgrade, I'd say, go for the upgrade rather than the repair. And get a Pilot Professional GMT chrono...b-)


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## whifferdill (Jan 11, 2007)

Hi guys

After taking a look myself over the last couple of days, I noticed this on my Fortis - not something I have ever paid much attention to in the 7 years I've had the watch. I'm not sure this is a fault - I think it's more a quirk of the movement. The day and date wheels rotate in opposite directions and through the course of the day there is a little movement - I've noticed that they line up better at different times than others, and on different days than others - there's bound to be some give / play in the gearings and at the midnight change over, the day / date will line up better one day better than the next - I think that there's some movement as the day progresses as well - so that they may begin out of alignment and slowly come in as they reach the 'optimum' part of the day.

I'm sure that a skilled watchmaker could achieve tighter tolerances to improve the alignment, but to me, the problem is not great enough for it to bother me, as long as I can see both the day and date without either of them being partially obscured and they change over correctly within 5 - 10 minutes of midnight I am happy - but it is something to mention when the watch goes in for a full service.

Just my two pennies worth on the subject!


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

whifferdill, I think you've nailed it. It is not consistently off, and sometimes I feel that I'm staring at it too closely. :-|

Right now, 'WED' is slanting -5degrees below datum. And '14' is about a millimeter above datum. So there's clearly a misalignment. But both are well within the window. 

When I had first noticed it, it was something that I had just noticed, and honestly, it did bother me a little bit. But not enough for me to give it in or even raise a question.

So it slid to the back of my mind. But saw this thread, and then looked up more of this online and found that this has been an issue that has come up before as well.

So back of mind soon became front of mind. And I started staring at it really intently--not good! 

Also, I've had this watch for less than a month, so I'm in the honeymoon period, so feel that either best I fix it now, or keep my peace forever. 

For what it's worth, the AD was cooperative, and is ready to have it serviced at no charge. 

It's keeping great time, has been off by about 5-7 seconds at worst. So I feel why try tinkering with something that's working so well. :think:

No?


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

You guys have me to blame for your newfound woes. Sorry for bringing up the topic again.

I am feeling the same as razer: doubting whether it's worth sending in specifically for this fix. I do not have a local AD, so will need to ship to PWH. Whifferdill provides good perspective on the minor nature of this problem; the watch does work correctly, after all. And mine, like razer's, is running very consistently.

I guess we each need to determine whether a possible fix is worth the time/hassle/risk,, based on how much the view bothers each of us. (Sounds like whifferdill already made his decision.)


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

*I would like to hear from others who have experienced this problem and had it fixed.*

If I knew it would be corrected without issue, I would likely send it in. I just worry that there will still be inconsistency in the wheels, per whifferdill's points, even after a supposed fix.


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

Quick update. My AD just responded with the following advice: All you need to do is pull the setting crown out to the first click and realign the date by turning the crown. (If that does not work for you contact Fortis for warranty repair.)

Does this make any sense to others? I have not tried it, but don't recall being able to adjust position of the wheels through the crown.


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## whifferdill (Jan 11, 2007)

Gopher said:


> Quick update. My AD just responded with the following advice: All you need to do is pull the setting crown out to the first click and realign the date by turning the crown. (If that does not work for you contact Fortis for warranty repair.)
> 
> Does this make any sense to others? I have not tried it, but don't recall being able to adjust position of the wheels through the crown.


Hmmm - sounds like sloping shoulders, that one. Isn't the first click the winding position? It might be that when you pull the crown out to the date / day setting position - second click, you could try tweaking the position in the window to get a true alignment before pushing the crown back in. Might be worth ago.

To my mind - the amount of give / play should not be enough to have an obvious discrepency between the date and day - one that stands out like a sore thumb - if it does and it bothers the wearer every time he / she looks at it, then send it away and have it adjusted - the level of misalignment / play on my own Fortis is not enough for me to want to have it adjusted or checked and never has been. I guess it's up to the individual what thay can live with and what they can not. If under warranty, it is perhaps worth having Fortis attempt to improve the alignment to within tighter tolerances.

Persoanlly - I'm happy enough with mine as it is. It has never been so obvious for me to be concerned with, but I don't think the misalignment on mine is as significant as in the picture at the start of this thread.


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

Great news!

Gosh! Just back from the AD once again. Filled in the form, removed my watch and handed it over to him. Explained the problem once again in great detail. Said it was inconsistent in the misalignment. Then the rep. started to change the dates, and turned the date wheel full circle and back to WED, and flipped the dates as well. 

Voila! Day-Date perfectly aligned. I said this is great, and good enough for me. In any case he was smart enough to mention that this required adjustment and probably shouldn't be the case, and I should wait for the watch to change dates on its own and then see how things line up. I will wait for tomorrow, and let the watch do what it has to overnight. 

My service slip is ready, it has my signature on it, and they're ready to take it in for a full service. The watch will be sent to HO, and then will be sent to Fortis so said the rep. If things don't align again, they're happy to take it in and get it checked out.

Great AD! Damas Watches, Festival City Dubai, if you'd ever like to buy a Fortis watch from this region, I'd suggest pay these folks a visit. Good discount, too! :-!

Am happy I have the cosmo back with me, I felt like a small boy who had to give away his toy-car at the AD. :-d


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

So the crown adjustment trick worked...interesting. I just tried the same trick on mine and was also able to get them to line up with small adjustments, but then they snapped back to misalignment when I pushed in the crown. I guess your AD is more skilled than am I (big surprise).

Guess I need to live with it or send it in.


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## MarkJnK (Nov 10, 2006)

I had a crooked day wheel on a watch once and called the Canadian repair center for many of the major brands including Fortis, Breitling etc. I was told by the head guy that there is some very slight adjustment possible, which if thats all it takes, is an easy fix. If not, the job becomes much bigger as the wheels need to be removed and either replaced or re-aligned. I don't think this is specific to Fortis, most watches with day/date displays have a percentage of problems with alignment. I've seen it on almost every brand.

Also, make sure you never set the day/date between 9pm and 3am. NEVER!

Mark


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

Great context, Mark! I am aware of the rule to never set day/date between 9 p.m. (or 8 p.m.) and 3 a.m. (or 2 a.m.), but do not know what happens if you do. What is the result?

Thanks.


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

Okay, here are the results of my overnight experiment.

The misalignment is back, ever so slightly. It's not as severe as before, but if I stare hard enough I can see that the Day slopes downwards, and the date is a tad bit pushed up. 

Not something that's bothering me so much now. I'm going to see if this gets worse tomorrow.

But yes, it's not as well aligned as it was when I got back from the AD.


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks for the update. So much for a freebie. I figured the simple adjustment was too good to be true.


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## skoochy (Jan 6, 2009)

Gopher said:


> Great context, Mark! I am aware of the rule to never set day/date between 9 p.m. (or 8 p.m.) and 3 a.m. (or 2 a.m.), but do not know what happens if you do. What is the result?
> 
> Thanks.


The POSSIBLE consequences vary on different movement types. If you force it, you may just feel a binding and then it snaps as it is forced. That's the minimum possibility, of course if you're close to the changing time but not at a bad time, there are no consequences. Some movements may cause the time of changeover to move (i.e. no longer exactly at 12m on movements that have a jump date). Or, some movements may have the date corrector broken, and will no longer change the date. In a rare case, the date wheel's tooth may be broken so the date will no longer change, only on that date.

Again, the possible consequences will vary on the movement and exactly where in the date change process the movement is when you force it. On the 7750, I believe it actually just doesn't change the date when you try at the wrong time, and no further consequences. This is supported by ETA documentation that states "rapid date correction is not possible" in the evening, compared with other movements where the documents indicates not to change the date.

The 7750 family has rather ... um, _interesting_ rules for changing the day and date.

7750, 7760, 7754: can't change the date or day (7750, 7760) between 8pm and 2am. 
7751: don't change the date between 10pm and 2am, can't change the day between 9:30pm and midnight, can't change the moon phase between 3am and 4am
7753: can't change the date between 8:30pm and 11pm

Normally to ensure I'm not causing a problem, I've made it a habit on all my watches to change the time to 12n, then set the date (and maybe day) to the day before, then forward the watch through midnight to the correct time. A pain, yes.

-s-


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## Aless (Jun 21, 2008)

Hi guys

Well i have i b42 cosmonaute day/date. Things that you mention here when day and date dont align upp perfecly is bothering. i would never ever accept that. I dont have this problem whith my cosmonaute. But it is scaring me of my next fortis a b42 flieger day/date... And it seems to be many people that have problem whith fortis. To bad because i love mine. But i wont feel good if i se this problem or lume problem on my next one and have to ship it away. I have seen to many treads like this one. I work whith quality control of electronic, i would never let something like that pass. Dont understand how Fortis let things like that pass. I probebly wont get i Fortis after this. There are many nice watches for the same cash. It is just sad:roll:

Regards
Alessandro


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

After tweaking my day and date with crown as described above, my alignment has been better. It seemed to snap back to misaligned position immediately after screwing down the crown (as I mentioned above), but has been better aligned after switching over automatically the next day. It's not quite perfect (date is now perfect, day is angled downward just slightly) but good enough for me to barely notice even when looking closely and not at all when taking a normal glance.


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

I gave it in today. There was a spec of dust on the inside of the crystal. At first I thought I had scratched it, but then later then it shifted position! :roll:

I also told them about my day/date misalignment and they were happy to fix it as well and give it a service as well.

So there you have it, my first Fortis and it's not been the best piece they produced. But I still like it!


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## graybabs (Jun 10, 2007)

A very interesting thread, I have two watches with day/date a Fortis Cosmonaut (Lemania 5100) and a Zeno Pilot with valjoux 7750, and both seem OK to me. Following one of the earlier posts (and having nothing to do today...how sad is that!) I have photographed my watches at various times today and can't say theres much if any change during the day. I tried to keep the angles similar but the light changed a bit.


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

Graybabs, that's a great picture.

The problem seems to be with the 2836-2 movements me thinks. I could be wrong though.

I will have my watch back on Wednesday, so will see if they have it fixed or not.


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## graybabs (Jun 10, 2007)

There might be a clue in this pic nicked from another web site (Hope they don't mind)
Looking at the alignement of the day wheel depending on the language, they don't seem to line up the English day as well as some of the other languages? Maybe it changes when installed.
Regards, Graham


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

Got it back yesterday. Glass is cleaned and now spotless. The movement was serviced, and is keeping good time so far. 

No change in the day wheel though. The slant is still present, and I told them about it. They said they'd happy to take it in again if I wasn't satisfied. I said, maybe later, but for now I'd like to keep it!


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## skoochy (Jan 6, 2009)

graybabs said:


> There might be a clue in this pic nicked from another web site (Hope they don't mind)
> Looking at the alignement of the day wheel depending on the language, they don't seem to line up the English day as well as some of the other languages? Maybe it changes when installed.
> Regards, Graham


Only what's in line with the stem is aligned... the others won't ever line up because there are 31 dates and 14 days, and those have no common denominator greater than 1... which means one alignment point.

Razer, I just noticed something on another one of my watches. When the stem pushes on the keyless works too much, the date doesn't align. Try leaving it overnight with the crown unscrewed, and see if the next day the day/date are aligned.

-s-


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

Thanks Skoochy, I'll give that a try tonight.

What I've noticed yesterday as well is that if you do adjust the day manually, and then give it a nice tweak to align it correctly, then it's all well up to that point. But the minute you push the crown back in, "CLICK" the day slots into the slanted position. 

I try not to look at it hard nowadays.


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## johnee (Jan 1, 2009)

hmmm, I had finally settled on either the Fortis Pilot Professional or the Flieger as my first watch, but now i'm not sure anymore (?)

I think I'm partial to the Flieger anyway as I actually don't like the day indicator.

Hope it works out, seems like the AD folks are top notch though.

John


EDIT : Can you tell me what AD all of you bought your watch at? Someone mentioned "Greg" was a great dealer?


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

John: I wouldn't let this thread dissuade you too much. Even with the slight misalignment of the day wheel on my Pilot Pro Day/Date, I still love it. And I have a Flieger Chrono that has been great. There are AD references on this forum (check with Cookoo4Watches). I have had good purchasing experiences with Princeton Watches and Worldlux.


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

razer: What did you learn from leaving the crown unscrewed overnight during the day/date change? Any improvement?


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

Sorry, meant "cuckoo4watches."


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

Haven't done it as yet. 

Still drooling over my new PO over the last few days.


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## sjaakb (Feb 24, 2006)

Guys; sooner or later the watch needs service regardless. If you can live with it 'till then, do it at time of overhaul. Just a thought
My B42 MM Chrono is off slightly it seems or so I guess, but can live with it. the watch runs like clockwork only a few seconds a week so I'm not going to mess with a good thang


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

You're right, sjaakb.

razer: I did the unscrewed-crown experiment last night with no effect. I am now living with mine as is without issue.


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

That's interesting Gopher, cause I did mine yesterday night as well. And either it is WEDnesday and hence the error isn't as pronounced or something else happened. 

The results are good I'd say, but this is just one night's experiment, who knows if it will happen again tomorrow night!

But as of now, WED is lined up perfectly. Much, much better than the slightly slanted TUE.

So I'm guessing the open screw position did some good. Thanks Skoochy.


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

Interesting, indeed, razer. I find that my misalignment is probably worst on TUE (mine seems dependent on day), so my result may look better tomorrow when on WED.


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## razer (Dec 26, 2008)

That's exactly what I've noticed as well. It's worst on TUE.

But just like you've already concluded, whatever the result am not going to hand it in. And my love for this watch hasn't diminished one bit.


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## johnee (Jan 1, 2009)

Gopher said:


> John: I wouldn't let this thread dissuade you too much. Even with the slight misalignment of the day wheel on my Pilot Pro Day/Date, I still love it. And I have a Flieger Chrono that has been great. There are AD references on this forum (check with Cookoo4Watches). I have had good purchasing experiences with Princeton Watches and Worldlux.


Thanks for the info. After lots of research, I keep coming back to the Flieger. As soon as I finish saving my money in march, I'm placing my order.


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## cuckoo4watches (Oct 24, 2006)

wow, those are come crazy findings guys... date wheels off but only on certain days?
was Mr Magoo painting the days on the wheel???
haha

glad you still love your Fortis'... they are great watches for the money.


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## Gopher (Dec 27, 2007)

cuckoo4watches said:


> wow, those are come crazy findings guys... date wheels off but only on certain days?
> was Mr Magoo painting the days on the wheel???
> quote]
> 
> It is odd. Mine is always off a bit, but it does seem to vary by day. It might be an optical illusion created by the different overall shapes of the letters of the different days. Or it could be that the wheel/gears are not consistent around all the days. Or we might be insane. Or all the above! Mine is minor enough that it's not bothering me anymore.


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## Seikopath (Jun 19, 2007)

Funny thing this... I was weary, after reading this thread, but went ahead and got the B-42 Titanium Official Cosmonaut on Metal. Well, it has the same crooked day wheel problem. It's bad. Well, about the same as the Original Post's Pics. I love the watch, being that this is the first time I've even seen one in person. After reading this thread, I'm beginning to think it's like just a quirk on the Ti B-42s. It gives them "character". It's like a freckle beauty mark on a model.

I noticed it first off, because it's the first thing I checked. Funny how today is the same day and date as the OP pics. Thur, the 12. So mine looks EXACTLY like that.

It didn't take long to decide to just deal with it. It's like wearing a hat a little crooked. It's got a "gangsta lean" going on. I like it. Especially knowing I'm not alone. It's just a "Ti Cosmo Thing" - if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.

It's like finding a rare album with a miss-print. It's cool. I am drooling over my watch, and I doubt I will ever even look at another.


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## J.D. (Aug 15, 2006)

I think it's more of a "B-42 date wheel thing"! My B-42 Pilot Pro does the same thing on occasion. Needless to say, I am not worried about it. Btw, That Ti Cosmo looks really sweet! How's the weight for you? Not too light?

In any case, wear it well and welcome to the club. |>



Seikopath said:


> Funny thing this... I was weary, after reading this thread, but went ahead and got the B-42 Titanium Official Cosmonaut on Metal. Well, it has the same crooked day wheel problem. It's bad. Well, about the same as the Original Post's Pics. I love the watch, being that this is the first time I've even seen one in person. After reading this thread, I'm beginning to think it's like just a quirk on the Ti B-42s. It gives them "character". It's like a freckle beauty mark on a model.
> 
> I noticed it first off, because it's the first thing I checked. Funny how today is the same day and date as the OP pics. Thur, the 12. So mine looks EXACTLY like that.
> 
> ...


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## Seikopath (Jun 19, 2007)

J.D. said:


> That Ti Cosmo looks really sweet! How's the weight for you? Not too light?
> 
> In any case, wear it well and welcome to the club. |>


Thanks! I can't stop staring at it. I've been carrying around a little polishing cloth, and that crystal DISAPPEARS with a couple swipes.

The weight is awesome. I really love the weight. It is perfect. The color is a lot darker than I thought it would be, and it's beautiful. I love the finish. I'm just in awe and keep getting lost, just zoning out on the dial. From EVERY angle, it is the best watch in the world. The curves of the case are SEXY. The diver extension is thick, not stamped steel, like others.

Oops, not trying to hijack a thread, I'm just overly excited about this watch!

I'm not a collector, just been searching for that "perfect" watch and I've totally found it. This is a lifetime investment for me. Also my first "nice" watch.


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## ckcspice (May 22, 2010)

my b42 marinemaster has the same problem...barely 2 wks old...sighh....i like the watch very much but......


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## voltshin (Jun 18, 2010)

i believe every watch's brands have their own fault. there are bound to have few that got problem in there.

atleast we know more than 99% of their watches went thru intensive QC.

unlike watches from china, even its 100% perfect, we might even think it's fake.


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