# ways to discern a fake Panerai



## EF76 (Apr 27, 2011)

hi guys,

Is there a drop-dead way to tell if a panerai is fake? A pal of mine showed me his today, and it just didnt feel right. It was a bit light, the polish wasn't looking super high-end, and the "12" on the dial didnt look quite right. I'm not an owner of the brand (yet) so I'm not familiar with all the subtleties that an experienced owner would know. Can anyone help and let me know?

thanks!!


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## meliaser (Apr 18, 2011)

Depends on the fake. Some fakes get certain things right and others completely wrong. I think you hit the nail on the head yourself in terms of a drop-dead tell. It's the overall look, feel, and reaction you have when you see it in its entirety. Pictures of the actual watch would certainly help myself and other members of this forum tell with some level of certainty.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

What model was it? Pics are needed here, absolutely.


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## Trel (Nov 21, 2009)

The easiest way to tell is to look at the movement. The in-house movements can't be faked, and even their version of the Unitas can't be easily faked. The Unitas typically has square bridges. The curved bridges with a functioning swan's-neck regulator in the fashion of the old Rolex-Cortebert movements is unique to Panerai, IIRC.

However, if the back is solid, the crown guard is usually a dead giveaway. I have yet to see a fake that gets it right. The pin is never perfectly flush as they are in the geniune ones, the lever is always slightly loose or wobbly-feeling. Then, of course, there's lume strength. A geniune Panerai (Luminova dials only, of course. The tritium dials have long since died) glows incredibly brightly all night long and in nearly all light conditions. Even if you're outdoors and it's cloudy out, you can see the lume glowing. (One of the reasons that fakes will often use a green-tinged lume is to imitate the effect of the Panerai's dial lume being constantly visible.)

You're right to look at the polish. Panerai take extreme pride in the finish of their cases and if there are even the slightest rough spots in hard-to-reach places like between the lugs, it would not pass factory QC.

Fortunately for you, Panerai owners take riduculous amounts of close-up pictures of their watches, so if you ever want to compare a potential fake to a real one, there are guaranteed to be dozens of high-res close-ups to compare to.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Might be a good question to ask on the Affordable Forum.


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## EF76 (Apr 27, 2011)

handwound said:


> What model was it? Pics are needed here, absolutely.


Im not quite sure, as I'm not all that familiar with all the models. I'll try to get pics, but its not my watch so I need to ask my pal if he's comfortable with me posting them. As you could imagine, its a bit embarassing finding out you got a fake watch. One thing that I noticed right away was the pushers on the chrono. They didnt feel 'solid' and the movement was not working correctly. That and the other factors I already mentioned led me to believe my boy got himeslf a fugazi. The back is solid on his so I couldn;t see the movement. Of course that was the first thing I looked for.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

Well, one way to spot most fakes is to look at the letter "A" on the dial. Look at the pics of genuine watches and notice how high the cross-bar is. Most fakes have cross-bars that are MUCH closer to the "feet" of the letter.


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## Mercury2wo (Oct 4, 2009)

Hi! I am a PAM Newbie so correct me if I am wrong and give me opinions on my observations-
A. What about the seconds hand? On some YouTube videos of fakes, the movement is non-hacking - which means the seconds hand will keep going when the crown is pulled out to adjust the time. Many indie watch makers also use Japanese automatic movement which is non-hacking. While all good Swiss movements are hacking. 

B. The AR coating on the glass. Unlike in Breitlings and many others that have an AR coating, the glass on the Panerai WILL NOT throw off a blueish hue or tinge. While a blueish hue is common in Swiss watches with AR, the PAM's will not. Fake PAMs will give off a blueish hue, though. 

Am I right in these observations?


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## Trel (Nov 21, 2009)

You're kinda right on both. The handwound movements used in Panerai, basically gussied-up Unitas, are non-hacking. However, the automatic movements used in most automatic Panerai, SOPROD-modified Valjoux 7750s and 7752s do hack. So that depends on the model, really.

Panerai's AR nowadays is colorless, but they are actually really inconsistent across years and models and sometimes tinges can be seen that are blue, green, or even yellow. In all cases, though, the tinge is very slight and nothing like the bright blue tinge common to IWCs. Moreover, older Panerai (I believe before the C-series) didn't use AR coating at all.


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## Satansfist (Jul 20, 2009)

All in all there ISN'T a sure-fire, one step solution to picking a replica, it's a matter of familiarity with the real thing or being prepared to look at a lot of pictures on forms. I find it interesting that you admit to being unfamiliar with the brand yet quickly assumed your buddy's watch was a fake...not a close buddy I guess? lol


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## Mercury2wo (Oct 4, 2009)

SatansfistI find it interesting that you admit to being unfamiliar with the brand yet quickly assumed your buddy's watch was a fake...not a close buddy I guess? lol[/QUOTE said:


> Grin! I thought the same thing!!


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## lefufu73 (May 28, 2011)

Hi All, I've been reading this interesting forum for 3 weeks now and regarding this thread I would like to ask. I have targeted my first PAM (000, yes, another victim) it's a preowned one... I think after watching hundreds of photos I am confindent the one i am buying is legit.... the only question I got is about the L swiss made L at the bottom of the dial, the one I am buying just says L swiss L , why is that? I have not seen many pics with this, should I be worried about this? Thanks!


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## Satansfist (Jul 20, 2009)

Depends what year the watch is, I think earlier models had the abbreviated LSL.


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## akira23 (Dec 15, 2009)

Everyone here has made some valid points on what to look for. Due diligence! Not only do you invest in the watch, but make sure all the documents, boxes etc are correct for that model. Ask if the case back can be removed so you can get a better look at the movement.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

Satansfist said:


> Depends what year the watch is, I think earlier models had the abbreviated LSL.


Correct. I think they changed to the "L Swiss Made L" for the H series (it might be I series). So, this would be one of the first two years or so of the Zero if it just has "L Swiss L".


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## lefufu73 (May 28, 2011)

Thanks guys for the info... just for the record, the one I am buying is H series (for $2970 USD I think it's a nice deal) so you are certainly right Handwound, from I series and up should be L swiss made L. 

Cheers.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

You might want to double-check that, mate. I'm wearing my H series PAM000 right now (don't know why I didn't think of this at the time of my first post) and it has "L Swiss Made L" on the dial. H series PAM000, OP6616, H237/800, PB 524875.

What are the numbers on your case back? The OP number should be the same, as well as the total output of 800 for the H series. The PB or BB number will be different.


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## lefufu73 (May 28, 2011)

That's a good one handwound, I will check this ASAP. This is the only pic I have of the back (I also include other three pics) just hope are big enough for you guys to take a look and give me your opinion, it's H072/800 but the OP number is not clear in the pic.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

Hmmm, tough to tell from those pictures, but the dial print looks brighter/heavier than mine, too. Which could make sense if it is a left-over dial from the G series watches (quite possible being such a low production number). Someone here posted pics of their G series Zero with the fatter indices, I would compare it to those pics.

Does the seller have all the boxes and paperwork?


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## lefufu73 (May 28, 2011)

handwound said:


> Hmmm, tough to tell from those pictures, but the dial print looks brighter/heavier than mine, too. Which could make sense if it is a left-over dial from the G series watches (quite possible being such a low production number). Someone here posted pics of their G series Zero with the fatter indices, I would compare it to those pics.
> 
> Does the seller have all the boxes and paperwork?


No, just the watch and that's why I am concerned. I am meeting the seller and take the watch to a jeweler and have the case open to check the movement.


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

To a jeweler or a Panerai AD?


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## jswing (Dec 1, 2006)

I was under the impression only the G series had the L SWISS L dial, but I guess it's possible some of the dials carried over to the H series. Having a look at the movement should clear things up. I'd be cautious, though, and do my due diligence on the seller as well as the watch.


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## abingdon (Oct 1, 2008)

Out of curiosity I did a Google image search for 000G and 000H. All the pictures of Gs say L Swiss L while all of the Hs say L Swiss Made L. Could it be redialed?


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## lefufu73 (May 28, 2011)

absolutely, this jeweler is an AD, let's see how it goes.... I apreciate all you for taking some time to investigate this facts and recommend, very useful to support my decision.... do you guys recommend open the case by myself? with the proper tool of course or is it too risky to do on your own?


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## Satansfist (Jul 20, 2009)

Opening the case couldn't be simpler, however, I'm not sold 100% on the fact that looking at the movement will be the final word on authenticity, it's pretty simple to find various genuine Panerai parts and put them together with replica parts, a movement can be had for $1500, a case for $900 etc etc. Knowing the provedence of the watch is the best way to satisfy yourself.

That said, Panerai are infamous for mixing different model parts themselves at the factory, G series dial, H series case, E series CG etc etc. So...ummm...don't let me put a downer on your buying experience! lol If you are satisfied by the AD then congrats.


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## diverman (Mar 27, 2011)

There are several threads about this already, fakes are not easy to spot lately with the high ended ones..


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