# Suunto Spartan Firmware update 1.4.6 (2016/11/10)



## np31 (Sep 8, 2016)

*10TH NOVEMBER UPDATE: GPS ENHANCEMENTS, IMPROVED HR TRACKING CONSISTENCY, AND ENHANCED SPORTS EXPERIENCE

Spartan Ultra & Spartan Sport watch firmware release 1.4.6

Improvements


A fix to GPS signal filtering, reducing the number of cases with large location offsets in GPS tracking experienced by some users.
Move data compressed to fit show more workouts in logbook on watch
Improved quality of running cadence measured from wrist by removing unreal spikes and drops
Fixes made to avoid unnecessary watch resets during firmware update

New features


Autopause feature pauses the exercise when speed is close to zero. This feature can be found in exercise options in the watch, or in sport mode setting in Movescount.com.
Training load duration is now shown more accurately, using one minute resolution.
New week summary view for steps on left side of daily activity view

Bug fixes


More consistent HR tracking during workouts. This fix addresses the occurrence of a flat-line in HR tracking affecting some users.
Compass declination setting is no longer lost after syncing with Movescount
Recovery time is now calculated accurately
Swimming distance differed from Movescount summary
Triathlon transition view did not appear
Cycling power was not found during triathlon cycling leg
Altitude was flat in Triathlon move
Altitude not shown any more in outdoor swimming
Fixed crash when navigating during running move
Stopwatch shows reset button even when stopwatch time count is already zero
Move type was not stored in Move

Known issues


Cycling power with intervals multisport causes UI to loose colors until refreshed by scrolling
Altitude is still shown in outdoor swimming
*


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## buenosbias (Aug 18, 2016)

"… reducing the number of cases with large location offsets in GPS tracking experienced by some users" – sounds more like a small step. But at least in the right direction!


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

Hopefully a good step forward finally. Can't update mine yet to test, look forward to people's feedback.


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## mercuir0 (Mar 24, 2015)

what's the gps fw version? 5.7.9-P1.GC?


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## buenosbias (Aug 18, 2016)

mercuir0 said:


> what's the gps fw version? 5.7.9-P1.GC?


Yes


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

Just updated. The new Step summary looks nice! Still no way to adjust the target values though.
The touchscreen responsiveness seems to be improved. I don't know if that's just a feeling, but I think swiping is now easier.
All moves are lost when updating. I'll go for a ride now and see what else has changed!


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## buenosbias (Aug 18, 2016)

Just ran 17K with the updated watch. GPS performance looked very satisfactory. I passed through a stretch of dense forest where all of my GPS watches struggle. Before the update, the Spartan Ultra sometimes lost it completely after passing through such conditions. But alas, not this time! Just a sample of one, of course…


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt (Oct 30, 2011)

That was with that GPS version: Venice Marathon (Yes, I shared that before.)


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

buenosbias said:


> Just ran 17K with the updated watch. GPS performance looked very satisfactory. I passed through a stretch of dense forest where all of my GPS watches struggle. Before the update, the Spartan Ultra sometimes lost it completely after passing through such conditions. But alas, not this time! Just a sample of one, of course&#8230;


Good to know, though I've noted better performance after an update before, time will tell


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

My Bluetooth connectivity with the Movescount app has improved significantly. I.e. it is usable. My ride was tracked fine, small deviation in the forest but nothing bad.
The Autostop function did not work at first - until I realised it was set to off, even though I enabled it in Movescount and synced. We'll see if that issue persists. It was the same with the sport mode settings last time after first sync...

Edit: Move settings were not synced befor my activity - now it should work!


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

BobMiles said:


> My Bluetooth connectivity with the Movescount app has improved significantly. I.e. it is usable. My ride was tracked fine, small deviation in the forest but nothing bad.
> The Autostop function did not work at first - until I realised it was set to off, even though I enabled it in Movescount and synced. We'll see if that issue persists. It was the same with the sport mode settings last time after first sync...
> 
> Edit: Move settings were not synced befor my activity - now it should work!


I had something similar after previous update, I had to sync it a couple of times after the update, at the very least it seems that you need to sync it once after updating before the movescount settings site shows the right firmware version for the watch.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

BobMiles said:


> Just updated. The new Step summary looks nice! Still no way to adjust the target values though.
> The touchscreen responsiveness seems to be improved. I don't know if that's just a feeling, but I think swiping is now easier.
> All moves are lost when updating. I'll go for a ride now and see what else has changed!


Someone reported that Suunto support indicated that changing target values was part of sports mode customisation, so likely we won't see it until then.


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## kopis007 (Oct 6, 2012)

Czech language is totally crippled in the watch. That's incredible...


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

buenosbias said:


> "&#8230; reducing the number of cases with large location offsets in GPS tracking experienced by some users" - sounds more like a small step. But at least in the right direction!


Yes, the use of the word 'enhance' isn't great and inspiring of confidence, hopefully just marketing trying to play down negative associations with using words like fixed (as that implies it was broken in the first place) and downplaying the extent of the problem


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## buenosbias (Aug 18, 2016)

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> That was with that GPS version: Venice Marathon (Yes, I shared that before.)


Thanks for reposting, I missed it on first time. The track looks OK to me, only a few minor glitches and driftings. So maybe the Spartan Ultra is ready for regular use now.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

Is the battery icon bug and erratic second hand on the digital watch face fixed? Haven't managed to update mine to check yet.


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## buenosbias (Aug 18, 2016)

The update introduced a very silly bug to the compass declination setting (the synchronization of which should have been fixed with the update): negative declination shown on the watch is identified with Eastern declination in Movescount. But of course, in the real world it's the other way round. Negative means Western, positive means Eastern. Now I don't know what really counts for the compass: the +/- or the Eastern/Western?

To all the Suunto testers here: please report that to Suunto, I don't know how to do that.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt (Oct 30, 2011)

PTBC said:


> Yes, the use of the word 'enhance' isn't great and inspiring of confidence, hopefully just marketing trying to play down negative associations with using words like fixed (as that implies it was broken in the first place) and downplaying the extent of the problem


No,they aren't saying "fixed" because improvement work is still ongoing."Steps in the right direction" captures it pretty well.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt (Oct 30, 2011)

Pegasus said:


> Is the battery icon bug and erratic second hand on the digital watch face fixed? Haven't managed to update mine to check yet.


Battery icon is still static, last I checked...


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## Philip Onayeti (Jun 23, 2016)

GPS filtering fixed maybe, but underlying problem not :-(


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

Pegasus said:


> Is the battery icon bug and erratic second hand on the digital watch face fixed? Haven't managed to update mine to check yet.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The funky second hand on the digital watch face is still there. It looks like it's a bit less funky now - more fluid, but still has shorter and longer intervals of hand movement, but overall smoother. Before the update it would sometimes skip a second and a half, now it just skips for a fraction of a second. At least that's what I've noticed so far.

Besides that, someone mentioned a smoother touch interaction. I've noticed that too and using the buttons to move between screens - especially moving to the watch face screen with extra data on it - seems smoother and more responsive now.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

Philip Onayeti said:


> View attachment 9890074
> GPS filtering fixed maybe, but underlying problem not :-(


That looks pretty bad 

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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Philip Onayeti said:


> GPS filtering fixed maybe, but underlying problem not :-(


Looks like there is still offset issues based on that track


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## mercuir0 (Mar 24, 2015)

PTBC said:


> Looks like there is still offset issues based on that track


I'm on the .GC gps firmware since about one to two weeks and didn't note any relevant improvements...

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## Hecke (Jun 7, 2016)

My battery icon is now stuck at 100%, I feel much more confident than with the 70% I had before the update 

Re. Step trends:
First of all: Apparently, steps were stored in the old firmware too, because the history is filled already. 
Second: switching to the step overview works by swiping left from the current steps of the day. Switching to calories is done via a middle button press. I'd expect that there are now three screens in the daily activity face: overview, steps and calories. But then navigation should be consistent, right? Like swiping right from steps leads to calories, left to the overview, and the middle button press should cycle through overview->steps->calories, long middle button press vice versa. 
Did I somehow misinterpret the UI?

While playing with the UI, I saw an artifact in my preferred watch face, a near to horizontal line:







It is gone since the watch face went to power save, i.e. muted the second hand, and I cannot reproduce this in an instant.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

If we find bugs and poor GPS again so quickly why do they not in their testing? It's strange and disappointing.


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## Hecke (Jun 7, 2016)

Altitude is only shown after some pretty waiting time, when waking the watchface (from not showing the second hand). There is either only the unit (m) shown and it takes about 10 secs, or a small bar, whereafter it only takes about one or two seconds.

Why is there no weekly overview of calories?
Maybe this should be customizable (did I say that I am a fan of customization?), which metrics should show up in the weekly summary. I'd love to have distance and time exercising too.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

This watch has so much potential but the little things just seem poorly implemented, how hard can it be to get the battery icon working for instance?! Just small things seem to be shoddily done and if the small things are poor it doesn't bode well for the bigger issues.

I still remain hopeful though.


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## mercuir0 (Mar 24, 2015)

Pegasus said:


> If we find bugs and poor GPS again so quickly why do they not in their testing? It's strange and disappointing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


to me it looks like their antenna design is worth nuts.... if the watch points towards the sky you get great tracks, in any other situation you only get crap...


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

Pegasus said:


> If we find bugs and poor GPS again so quickly why do they not in their testing? It's strange and disappointing.


Because the people who create and develop are not the ones using and testing. The worse part is that this is not just Suunto, all of these companies are acting this way. They have been doing this exact same "blind release", calling it "beta testing", for a long time now. They release, and then see what sticks. We go after them like ducks because we feel like we have no choice. Like I said in the other thread, just consider this: are we really going to have to ask for a graphical battery gauge that is not bogus? How pathetic is that? On a top of the line item?!? Really?!?

And like I also said on the other thread: I still think the Spartan Ultra is being abandoned. They released a bug fix update, with bug fixes listed under "improvements" and "new features" just to make it look like there is significant progress, probably with stuff they needed to fix for the other Spartan models, but will not invest much time into solving any serious problems specific to the Spartan Ultra anymore.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

I hate to agree with you but it feels like you are right this time 


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

Sorry but this looks like Alpha release , not even close to Beta


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

I wish they would add the option back for Advanced in Units rather than Imperial or Metric, pretty sure they had this on my Ambit 3?? Everything seems a step backwards.


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## Unperson (Aug 23, 2016)

PTBC said:


> Someone reported that Suunto support indicated that changing target values was part of sports mode customisation, so likely we won't see it until then.


That was indeed the response I got.



Pegasus said:


> Is the battery icon bug and erratic second hand on the digital watch face fixed? Haven't managed to update mine to check yet.


The battery icon is not a bug, the icon is just a static image, the percentage shows the level. I agree that it's strange that they use a static image of a partly empty battery so maybe they'll change that. Making an image that shows the battery level correctly is likely harder to develop. Personally I'd prefer that time to go into usable functionality and not esthetics


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

Unperson said:


> The battery icon is not a bug, the icon is just a static image, the percentage shows the level. I agree that it's strange that they use a static image of a partly empty battery so maybe they'll change that. Making an image that shows the battery level correctly is likely harder to develop. Personally I'd prefer that time to go into usable functionality and not esthetics


That could be a hardware issue. Instead of just thinking of testing different firmware versions on the same hardware, we need to be wondering what works differently on different hardware, for the same firmware version. For example, is the battery level icon bogus also on the Spartan Sport and Spartan Trainer? For the same firmware version? And so on... if we find something that works on a newer model but not on the Ultra, we will be able to tell the Ultra is being abandoned because of fundamentally faulty hardware. And that they didn't recall it after releasing the hardware fix as a brand new model. (Which would also explain why they did it so quickly.)


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

Unperson said:


> That was indeed the response I got.
> 
> The battery icon is not a bug, the icon is just a static image, the percentage shows the level. I agree that it's strange that they use a static image of a partly empty battery so maybe they'll change that. Making an image that shows the battery level correctly is likely harder to develop. Personally I'd prefer that time to go into usable functionality and not esthetics


Why is that hard ?
Even 1 $ Phone has an battery status bar


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

krazyeone said:


> Why is that hard ?
> Even 1 $ Phone has an battery status bar


As far as software that is very simple. It becomes hard or even impossible if the hardware itself is defective. Is the battery gauge hardware defective in the Ultra? In the Sport? In the Trainer?


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

LONG_HAUL said:


> As far as software that is very simple. It becomes hard or even impossible if the hardware itself is defective. Is the battery gauge hardware defective in the Ultra? In the Sport? In the Trainer?


What?? 
If you can display the percent in numbers, you can process a dynamic image. It's plain simple.


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## WEM (Jun 15, 2014)

The battery icon is truly the biggest issue of this watch....

Sorry for the sarcasm ;-)


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

WEM said:


> The battery icon is truly the biggest issue of this watch....
> 
> Sorry for the sarcasm ;-)


Haha, it's just indicative of their level of attention to detail, not that it's the most important thing but it is a pointer.

Like checking to see if someone polishes their shoes, shows a level of care.

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## Hecke (Jun 7, 2016)

Also, the battery icon once worked as intended. Then came the percent in numbers and the icon got static (in the sense that it always showed the charge the watch had when doing the update).


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

BobMiles said:


> What??
> If you can display the percent in numbers, you can process a dynamic image. It's plain simple.


Of course Bob! But as we can see that is not what they are doing. So we need to wonder what else could be going on.

I think they are using the percent number and the battery icon each differently. They are being used to display two different ways to measure the same thing. It should work and the two should match. But it is not working. They are not changing the code in the hope that they can detect when the problem with one of them is fixed or is improved. Do you see what I am trying to say? And maybe what they are now showing as the percent number is really just a patch. That is just to get by for now. It would explain why some times it seems to be bogus as well. And the battery level icon is really the way it should work. But for some more fundamental reason is always stuck either at 100% or at some random value.


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## oli70 (Sep 4, 2016)

WEM said:


> The battery icon is truly the biggest issue of this watch....
> 
> Sorry for the sarcasm ;-)


I wonder why some people here can argue about such small and in my oppinion not very important things like the battery icon. tzzzz......


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

oli70 said:


> I wonder why some people here can arge about such small and in my oppinion unnecessary things like the battery icon. tzzzz......


Good question. The reason for worrying about small things is that on one hand there are fundamental issues with the Ultra, and on the other hand we don't have access to the firmware code. In other words we see issues but cannot tell whether the hardware is broken or the software is broken. If the hardware is broken we need to know that right now so we can get Suunto to recall the Ultra. So we need to study every little stupid thing we can find in the watch so we can gather an understanding of whether we are being conned or not. Do you see that?


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

oli70 said:


> I wonder why some people here can argue about such small and in my oppinion not very important things like the battery icon. tzzzz......


As I said it shows attention to detail, maybe you would be happy with a decorator that paints around the furniture.

The small things all add up to make the bigger picture.

Its not specifically about the battery indicator, it's what it shows about the care that goes into the watch.

Just my opinion.

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## Hecke (Jun 7, 2016)

Pegasus said:


> Like checking to see if someone polishes their shoes, shows a level of care.


Darn, don't look down! Once the dirt no longer falls from my shoes on its own, it time to get a new pair...


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## bryanredneck27 (Nov 27, 2014)

I think it's pathetic- just imagine if apple updated a product just as poorly as suunto does... it would be in the news and a thousand lawsuits... it's just shows you poor to none business practices ..


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## JimmyKane (Oct 10, 2016)

Just to close this battery icon thingy. Yes it's wrong had only 2 - 3 states. On the other hand also does Nexus 5x for example. The icons (since someone mentioned it here) DO NOT HAVE A DYNAMIC IMAGE!

There not something called a dynamic image of an icon. So go check font-awesome, material icons by google etc etc etc.

There are acutaly 5 states of a battery icon that are replaced according to the battery level signal.

You want it as code? 
Here:


```
if (batteryLevel > 80 && batteryLevel <= 100) {
            icon = batteryFullIcon;
        .. else if (batteryLevel > 60 && batteryLevel <= 80) {
            icon = batteryThreeQuartersIcon;
        .. else if (batteryLevel > 40 && batteryLevel <= 60) {
            icon = batteryHalfIcon;
        .. else if (batteryLevel >= 20 && batteryLevel <= 40) {
            icon = batteryQuarterIcon;
        .. else {
            icon = batteryEmptyIcon;
        ..
        return icon;
```
As you can see Suunto uses only 3 states instead of 5 for example on android. Please get past this story with the icon.


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## borgelkranz (Aug 17, 2016)

Pegasus said:


> As I said it shows attention to detail [...] [t]he small things all add up to make the bigger picture.
> 
> Its not specifically about the battery indicator, it's what it shows about the care that goes into the watch.


When I look at my SSU that I wear as an everyday watch since I bought it in august I must conclude that Suunto shows incredible attention to detail. It wears well and it looks great.
Yes, it's true. The watch as a product is not finished yet. But they are working on it.

But what do most people posting here do? Cry for a quicker release cycle, new features, bug fixes and improved usability at the same time.

This thread by now is largely about people's opinions and sentiments and not so much about the SSU. So I add my opinion: you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either keep your SSU and hope for the best (my strategy) or cry yourself and everyone else an ocean... a bad strategy as far as I am concerned. There is no use crying about spilt milk!

As a technical writer I have to document many products that are far from perfect. And because some of these products are software products I had to acquire an understanding about the pitfalls in software engineering. Give them the time they need to do their work instead of talking product managers into a frenzy...


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

borgelkranz said:


> When I look at my SSU that I wear as an everyday watch since I bought it in august I must conclude that Suunto shows incredible attention to detail. It wears well and it looks great.
> Yes, it's true. The watch as a product is not finished yet. But they are working on it.
> 
> But what do most people posting here do? Cry for a quicker release cycle, new features, bug fixes and improved usability at the same time.
> ...


Nice lecture, I will respond as you quoted me. If you don't like the topic don't join in, then you don't need to cry about us crying 

We all have a valid opinion here and we don't need to agree, I'm comfortable with that, some don't seem to be.

If we stick to the facts Suunto sold a product via a series of promises regarding functionality that they have failed to keep to. I think we can all agree on that?

All we have done is voice opinion as is usual on a forum and you won't convince me that Suunto have not messed the release of this product up.

I happen to think the aesthetics of the watch are great but we paid for a lot more than just aesthetics.

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## JimmyKane (Oct 10, 2016)

Btw this is the update related topic. Not the generic one guys. Let's keep this to the update please


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## Unperson (Aug 23, 2016)

When I mentioned the battery thing was a static image I was referring to information someone got as a response from a Suunto ticket. If I recall correctly the response was something akin to 'that's working as intended, the image is just an image, look at the percentage for the charging level'. And yes, an image that reflects the percentage is possible and should be easy to implement but it will take time, which I'd rather see them investing in getting the sports mode customisation done. 

Even if making the image more sensible takes 10 lines of code that is time wasted for a watch which doesn't even support intervals. Who gives a damn about an icon? Well, ok, apparently Suunto does, as they've changed it around a few times so in that sense it is worrying in itself.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

JimmyKane said:


> Just to close this battery icon thingy. Yes it's wrong had only 2 - 3 states. On the other hand also does Nexus 5x for example. The icons (since someone mentioned it here) DO NOT HAVE A DYNAMIC IMAGE!
> 
> There not something called a dynamic image of an icon. So go check font-awesome, material icons by google etc etc etc.
> 
> ...


Can you send this code to Suunto?? 

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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

JimmyKane said:


> Btw this is the update related topic. Not the generic one guys. Let's keep this to the update please


We did, but got reprimanded for crying about it, the battery icon change is part of the update isn't it?

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## morey000 (Dec 12, 2013)

I don't see anything about yet adding the ability to customize display fields?
Is that pretty friggen essential feature still not in the watch? 

on a separate note, there are leaks of the Garmin Fenix 5S, 5, 5X. nice looking.
Suunto- get your act in gear!


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## zvojan (Sep 24, 2013)

Today's run with recorded points. 3km with track back (6 km). Heavy conditions. Middle rain, little fog and dense forest. I know that A3p can do better, question is, can SSU?

A3P








SSU


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

That looks not too bad, especially with the conditions you were in.


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

LONG_HAUL said:


> That could be a hardware issue. Instead of just thinking of testing different firmware versions on the same hardware, we need to be wondering what works differently on different hardware, for the same firmware version. For example, is the battery level icon bogus also on the Spartan Sport and Spartan Trainer? For the same firmware version? And so on... if we find something that works on a newer model but not on the Ultra, we will be able to tell the Ultra is being abandoned because of fundamentally faulty hardware. And that they didn't recall it after releasing the hardware fix as a brand new model. (Which would also explain why they did it so quickly.)


Oh c'mon, you must be trolling or something. Looking at the plans for developing the SSU it does not look like they're abandoning anything. And you clearly don't know how long product development takes ... it's not like they're capable of developing a new watch after realising SSU has a potential hardware issue. The new models coming out now have been in the development pipeline for at least a year if not longer.
As has been said by others, software developers need their time with the new platform and good things will come sooner or later - for example take a look at the week history display for steps on the watch. If future updates show this kind small things as improvements to the major functionalities of the watch, then I think we have nothing to fear as SSU owners.


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## JimmyKane (Oct 10, 2016)

Jaka83 said:


> Oh c'mon, you must be trolling or something. Looking at the plans for developing the SSU it does not look like they're abandoning anything. And you clearly don't know how long product development takes ... it's not like they're capable of developing a new watch after realising SSU has a potential hardware issue. The new models coming out now have been in the development pipeline for at least a year if not longer.
> As has been said by others, software developers need their time with the new platform and good things will come sooner or later - for example take a look at the week history display for steps on the watch. If future updates show this kind small things as improvements to the major functionalities of the watch, then I think we have nothing to fear as SSU owners.


He is probably. Or got his knowledge wrong. Or he does not know a thing about firmware/software and hardware. Maybe he does not own a Spartan. We will never know.



> That could be a hardware issue. Instead of just thinking of testing different firmware versions on the same hardware, we need to be wondering what works differently on different hardware, for the same firmware version. For example, is the battery level icon bogus also on the Spartan Sport and Spartan Trainer? For the same firmware version? And so on... if we find something that works on a newer model but not on the Ultra, we will be able to tell the Ultra is being abandoned because of fundamentally faulty hardware. And that they didn't recall it after releasing the hardware fix as a brand new model. (Which would also explain why they did it so quickly.)


On reply to the original post of LANG_HAUL to help you with understand I hope:

- Firmware is software that drives the essentials of a chip. Is usually read only for the whole world, but the vendor of the device plus the vendor of the chip (probably) can change code in that software. They have special procedures usually referred to flashing. If this procedure fails and has not essentially completed your device can be bricked indeed. There is always a risk there.

At the SSU if you go to the excerise you have a percentage of the current battery level plus the icon to represent visually and more quick that percentage. Yes they have the icon calculation code wrong. That part of code would belong to the Core OS (we will see that later).

Having the same firmware for example for the GPS chipset and testing on different hardware can be of assistance and indicate a faulty one for example, but believe me field testing especially with GPS (which sucks at positioning) can be so tricky that you wont expect it. I bet if you wear same model of your most accurate GPS watch go run come back check map. You will have differences. Sometimes HUGE! Why? Because watch A locked 7 satelites and could not get some extra and Watch B 10 and went up to 15. Why? Well maybe the ones that the Watch B had locked became not available. Or RANDOM ;-)

Now to help you understand how things are made (probably). Let's take for example the Spartan Family.

- Spartan sport, ultra , trainer etc if they have the same GPS chipset they are most likely to run the same GPS firmware.
- Spartan sport , ultra ,trainer etc will have the same Core if we might say in the OS with missing features. A subset of features. Imagine it as applications not installed or like windows home blah blah blah.

Same would apply to the Ambit family and even to Traverse.

Now to whatever assumptions you made I hope this clears this up. Cheers


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

JimmyKane said:


> As you can see Suunto uses only 3 states instead of 5 for example on android. Please get past this story with the icon.


THIS IS NOT TRUE!!! The battery level icon is stuck, also on this new firmware.

This has been a recurring issue since the Ultra was released and many here have noticed and reported it. Since Suunto has demonstrated it cannot fix it over several firmware updates, I think the code they have for the icon must already look right to them and should work. And I think it is not working because of underlying hardware defects. I wonder if the icon works properly on other Spartan models.

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## JimmyKane (Oct 10, 2016)

LONG_HAUL said:


> THIS IS NOT TRUE!!! The battery level icon is stuck, also on this new firmware.
> 
> This has been a recurring issue since the Ultra was released and many here have noticed and reported it. Since Suunto has demonstrated it cannot fix it over several firmware updates, I think the code they have for the icon must already look right to them and should work. And I think it is not working because of underlying hardware defects. I wonder if the icon works properly on other Spartan models.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Show us. Please


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

JimmyKane said:


> Show us. Please


Is the battery level icon changing for anyone?


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

LONG_HAUL said:


> Is the battery level icon changing for anyone?


Not for me no, was always 3/4 full icon on previous firmware even when below 25% and now always a full icon on new firmware.

If anyone's is changing I will try to force firmware and see if that fixes it for me.

If anyone can take a pic of their watch on less than 50% without a full battery icon I would be interest to see it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

Pegasus said:


> Not for me no, was always 3/4 full icon on previous firmware even when below 25% and now always a full icon on new firmware.
> 
> If anyone's is changing I will try to force firmware and see if that fixes it for me.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU!!! Same exact story for me. It was stuck at about 3/4 with previous firmware and now it stuck at full icon. There could be an issue there. I confess there is no way for me to know from fact. But if we are all seeing the same issue and the same firmware on another Spartan model works fine, then it has got to point to a hardware related issue.


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

Then how do you explain the right percentage displayed on the Exercise screen and the percentage with the correct battery level shown graphically when you tap the bottom part of the screen during exercise? You clearly know next to nothing about programming and software bugs.

They will fix the main battery icon, so stop *****in' about it and making a big deal out of a small software issue - please, Suunto abandoning the Spartan Ultra based on a software bug displaying the wrong battery level graphically on the main screen. Get real.


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

Jaka83 said:


> Then how do you explain the right percentage displayed on the Exercise screen and the percentage with the correct battery level shown graphically when you tap the bottom part of the screen during exercise? You clearly know next to nothing about programming and software bugs.
> 
> They will fix the main battery icon, so stop *****in' about it and making a big deal out of a small software issue - please, Suunto abandoning the Spartan Ultra based on a software bug displaying the wrong battery level graphically on the main screen. Get real.


I don't have to explain how it is possible that one thing works properly before I'm can be allowed to point out another thing does not work properly.

You don't have to get personal and offend others here.

Suunto is the one who needs to get real (if the general consensus is to be respected).


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

I don't think we need to fall out over this, we all have different views and different priorities with what we would like Suunto to deal with.

Nobody is wrong, I think the small detail would be an easy win for Suunto to gain back some confidence in their product but it's cool if others think differently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

LONG_HAUL said:


> I don't have to explain how it is possible that one thing works properly before I'm can be allowed to point out another thing does not work properly.
> 
> You don't have to get personal and offend others here.
> 
> Suunto is the one who needs to get real (if the general consensus is to be respected).


Saying the company is abandoning a product it barely even launched based on the battery display bug is overreacting, don't you think? You are clearly just aching for attention (not to call you something worse like an attention lady of the evening).
I'm putting you on the ignore list...


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## johan6504 (Aug 7, 2016)

LONG_HAUL said:


> Is the battery level icon changing for anyone?


No it is static.


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## johan6504 (Aug 7, 2016)

Fellrnr has put together data to visualize the GPS performance of Spartan Ultra. It is pretty obvious that SSU still has a very very long way to go.
Does anyone actually believe that Suunto will get this to work, ever? Fellrenr doesnt seem to think so...

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Suunto_Spartan_Ultra


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

Jaka83 said:


> Saying the company is abandoning a product it barely even launched based on the battery display bug is overreacting, don't you think? You are clearly just aching for attention (not to call you something worse like an attention lady of the evening).
> I'm putting you on the ignore list...


I think this offensive to me and to women in general.


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

johan6504 said:


> Fellrnr has put together data to visualize the GPS performance of Spartan Ultra. It is pretty obvious that SSU still has a very very long way to go.
> Does anyone actually believe that Suunto will get this to work, ever? Fellrenr doesnt seem to think so...
> 
> http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Suunto_Spartan_Ultra
> ...


No, nit me, not anymore.


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## bryanredneck27 (Nov 27, 2014)

Knock, knock.... os update ....


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## marcomueller (Aug 18, 2016)

Jaka83 said:


> Saying the company is abandoning a product it barely even launched based on the battery display bug is overreacting, don't you think? You are clearly just aching for attention (not to call you something worse like an attention lady of the evening).
> I'm putting you on the ignore list...


I am busy a different topic. Suunto says they have solved the compass problem with this update. For me this is not the case. Every time I synchronize the watch with the magnetic plug I have to re-calibrate the compass again because he show everytime a false north. Same problem as before the uptade. Will suunto really f... us?
Have you guys the same problem?


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Drunken wobbly track, especially at start of move, offset to side watch was worn on, not exactly sure how GPS is supposed to be enhanced by this fix.
Compass seems laggy and unresponsive, turning around it doesn't track and even moves in wrong direction at times, seems worse than before


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

My take on the battery icon is that is possibly shows a development team that's stretched and not working in a structured manner, simple tasks like this are being left or not managed properly, hopefully its because they are all tied up with performance issues.

Also noticed that there is no mention of day to day smartwatch type functions in the development list, music control, better message management, things that are taken for granted these days and functions they are needed to compete in the current market.

If it's dynamic its just using the % already shown to size the bar, if it's static it's selecting one of a handful of images based on the %, which it already does for below 20% as has been stated not exactly difficult.

Right now I'm wondering what the point of the update was, hopefully it is an improvement for some. Inconsistent and poor service management isn't helping things.

Also noticed that the mode settings you could change appear to have reverted back to default so running modes all have foot pod re-enabled and so on


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## buenosbias (Aug 18, 2016)

Someone pointed out here that the GPS performance is highly dependent on the orientation of the antenna, upwards vs. sideways. This may be the key to unterstanding all the confusion: why some users (like me) see an improvement, while others see deterioration. If this is true, Suunto likely will have a hard time fixing it: repairing a flawed antenna design by tweaking the software.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

PTBC said:


> My take on the battery icon is that is possibly shows a development team that's stretched and not working in a structured manner, simple tasks like this are being left or not managed properly, hopefully its because they are all tied up with performance issues.
> 
> Also noticed that there is no mention of day to day smartwatch type functions in the development list, music control, better message management, things that are taken for granted these days and functions they are needed to compete in the current market.
> 
> ...


Good post, I pretty much agree with all this, I'm getting similar tracks to you also, drunken wandering and over buildings etc. I wear the watch left wrist, if we get into 'you are wearing it wrong' we are all sunk 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zvojan (Sep 24, 2013)

PTBC said:


> Compass seems laggy and unresponsive, turning around it doesn't track and even moves in wrong direction at times, seems worse than before


Exactly.

Below is my today's run only with SSU, A3P runs out of battery .
In circle you can see deviations more than 30 m. I just can not see any improvements in gps tracking. SSU goes back to the drawer till next update (like previous 2 weeks) and I will be using good old A3P till then.


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

PTBC said:


> My take on the battery icon is that is possibly shows a development team that's stretched and not working in a structured manner, simple tasks like this are being left or not managed properly, hopefully its because they are all tied up with performance issues. If it's dynamic its just using the % already shown to size the bar, if it's static it's selecting one of a handful of images based on the %, which it already does for below 20% as has been stated not exactly difficult.


The battery icon shows a full battery for any actual battery level.



PTBC said:


> Right now I'm wondering what the point of the update was, hopefully it is an improvement for some.


I think it gives the impression that a road map is being followed.


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## bruceames (Jul 20, 2013)

johan6504 said:


> Fellrnr has put together data to visualize the GPS performance of Spartan Ultra. It is pretty obvious that SSU still has a very very long way to go.
> Does anyone actually believe that Suunto will get this to work, ever? Fellrenr doesnt seem to think so...
> 
> Suunto Spartan Ultra Review - Fellrnr.com, Running tips
> ...


This a very disappointing. It certainly looks like I'll be skipping this watch entirely and hope that their next watch has acceptable GPS performance. As he said, the GPS is so bad that the best it can potentially do with updates is mediocre performance, and that's not good enough for me.


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## bruceames (Jul 20, 2013)

buenosbias said:


> Someone pointed out here that the GPS performance is highly dependent on the orientation of the antenna, upwards vs. sideways. This may be the key to unterstanding all the confusion: why some users (like me) see an improvement, while others see deterioration. If this is true, Suunto likely will have a hard time fixing it: repairing a flawed antenna design by tweaking the software.


Yes that's true. It's a double whammy, not only is the antenna smaller, but it's oriented sideways instead of facing up like the Ambit. And nothing can fix small nor how it's oriented (unless you wear your watch abnormally).


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

My first outdoor move after the latest FW update and it looks like the watch is giving me worse GPS performance than before. 

And to add to that, I had scrambled watch settings with no saved tracks on the watch. I loaded a couple of trails/tracks on the watch this morning before leaving ... the watch had been synced via the cable two times after the FW update. When I started the move and wanted to choose a track for navigation the list was totally empty. On top of that, the settings on the watch were scrambled - GPS accuracy setting, auto pause, backlight toggle etc. I then took out my phone and connected the app with the watch and it synced via BT (might I add this takes painfully long on Android ... about 5 minutes). After the phone app sync, the settings were back and so were the tracks/trails I had in my watch before the update and the ones I loaded this morning. Strange behaviour.

After that everything worked, except I have a feeling GPS performance is worse than before.

BTW, auto pause is funny too ... I was walking up some stairs at a steady pace and the watch put me on auto pause even tho my speed didn't change. But OK, I can live with that but will probably have auto pause turned off like on the Ambit.


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## rdm01 (Jan 10, 2015)

bruceames said:


> This a very disappointing. It certainly looks like I'll be skipping this watch entirely and hope that their next watch has acceptable GPS performance. As he said, the GPS is so bad that the best it can potentially do with updates is mediocre performance, and that's not good enough for me.


I think there is something wrong with fellrnr's unit. It's impossible I got good or decent tracks in most of my runs/trail runs and he got such a mess! I use to repeat the same routes a lot and not only the tracks but even the autolaps are virtually the same every time.

I'm back now to my Peak and I still doing again and again the same routes and there are no big difference between my past two Spartan's units and now. His Spartan performance is weird ☹

Next week I'm going to use a Spartan Sport and I'll start running with both of them (SS and Peak). I'll see if there are differences...

deporteporvida.com


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## milkofamnesia (Oct 14, 2016)

Jaka83 said:


> My first outdoor move after the latest FW update and it looks like the watch is giving me worse GPS performance than before.


Same for me. Walking at least. Might be that iphone didn't update latest gps info or the gps went beserk. Monday is running day so hopefully it's normal or better then today.


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## rdm01 (Jan 10, 2015)

LONG_HAUL said:


> And like I also said on the other thread: I still think the Spartan Ultra is being abandoned. They released a bug fix update, with bug fixes listed under "improvements" and "new features" just to make it look like there is significant progress, probably with stuff they needed to fix for the other Spartan models, but will not invest much time into solving any serious problems specific to the Spartan Ultra anymore.


Sorry mate but I'm completely disagree with your thoughts. I think that thanks to the leaked Trainer pics we know now the Spartan's core will be present in all the new Suunto models. Anyway it's only my point of view 

deporteporvida.com


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## tinu80 (Aug 23, 2016)

Has the small bug in trail run, hill(?) mode(called "Bergmodus" in German version) been fixed? If you start an activity and switch to the lap summary page, the first data column was empty and the column header showed a funny nonsense sign.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

rdm01 said:


> I think there is something wrong with fellrnr's unit. It's impossible I got good or decent tracks in most of my runs/trail runs and he got such a mess! I use to repeat the same routes a lot and not only the tracks but even the autolaps are virtually the same every time.
> 
> I'm back now to my Peak and I still doing again and again the same routes and there are no big difference between my past two Spartan's units and now. His Spartan performance is weird ☹
> 
> ...


If theres a fault with his unit then it must be widespread fault based on comments online about GPS


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

zvojan said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Below is my today's run only with SSU, A3P runs out of battery .
> In circle you can see deviations more than 30 m. I just can not see any improvements in gps tracking. SSU goes back to the drawer till next update (like previous 2 weeks) and I will be using good old A3P till then.


Right now I'd be pleased with that performance, I don't have lines that close going up and down a wide street with clear view of the sky, repeated tickets to support about GPS and only answer I had was that GPS was not set to best. replying that it was was never acknowledged.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

tinu80 said:


> Has the small bug in trail run, hill(?) mode(called "Bergmodus" in German version) been fixed? If you start an activity and switch to the lap summary page, the first data column was empty and the column header showed a funny nonsense sign.


Stuff like this along with some of the bug fixes, like race mode not passing race as type, makes me wonder what testing they did with the watch as they should have been obvious, even if you just ran a move with each mode for example a lot of this stuff should have shown up.
Why their GPS testing didn't show what fellrnrs did means they should either be trying to figure out what the difference is, assuming they did testing that extensive.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

LONG_HAUL said:


> The battery icon shows a full battery for any actual battery level..


Sorry meant that but as an example of how it would be done and that it was simple, though with the previous firmware if the watch dropped below 20% a red battery icon was displayed on the watchface so there is some concept of measuring % and taking action based on that already in the codebase


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Doing a 5k tomorrow, will try race mode, last time it totally screwed up and apparently they have fixed passing type to movescount in the sync


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## zvojan (Sep 24, 2013)

PTBC said:


> Right now I'd be pleased with that performance, I don't have lines that close going up and down a wide street with clear view of the sky, repeated tickets to support about GPS and only answer I had was that GPS was not set to best. replying that it was was never acknowledged.


One more thing. I run always with watch facing towards to the sky. At least with SSU. (That is not necessary with a3P). And still I am not satisfied with accuracy.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

zvojan said:


> One more thing. I run always with watch facing towards to the sky. At least with SSU. (That is not necessary with a3P). And still I am not satisfied with accuracy.


This fact does make me wonder how much of it is simply antenna related which no amount of software will fix, but then I struggle to see how a reputable company like Suunto could get its testing so wrong, even if software interface and features was rushed and not tested properly they must have done enough GPS raw signal testing on the antenna to be able know it was at least as good as previous non-bump ambit models, assuming it really is a different design abd not the same as the Ambit non-bump models.

Really don't want to return the watch but Suunto aren't making it easy to keep justifying why I should just give it a little longer and stick with it, ultimately it's too expensive to write off as nice if it's not fulfilling its primary function.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Bluetooth syncing seems worse, has always worked well for me after the initial update. Now there are times when it doesn't connect straight away and sync sometimes fails just like it did a few updates back, annoyingly failed sync still shows a tick and you have to read small text closely to see it says failed.


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## zvojan (Sep 24, 2013)

PTBC said:


> I struggle to see how a reputable company like Suunto could get its testing so wrong


You don't understand. Suunto doesn't have testers, looks like we are testers. . Suunto is just making and selling nice watches (from Spartan edition) .


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

zvojan said:


> You don't understand. Suunto doesn't have testers, looks like we are testers. . Suunto is just making and selling nice watches (from Spartan edition) .


If they release an Movescount app version and next day another version with bug fix ...this is what it looks, that they don't have testers
"_Bugfixes and performance improvements"


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

PTBC said:


> This fact does make me wonder how much of it is simply antenna related which no amount of software will fix, but then I struggle to see how a reputable company like Suunto could get its testing so wrong, even if software interface and features was rushed and not tested properly they must have done enough GPS raw signal testing on the antenna to be able know it was at least as good as previous non-bump ambit models, assuming it really is a different design abd not the same as the Ambit non-bump models.
> 
> Really don't want to return the watch but Suunto aren't making it easy to keep justifying why I should just give it a little longer and stick with it, ultimately it's too expensive to write off as nice if it's not fulfilling its primary function.


I am confused about the antenna issue, I have a perfect track of me driving, I couldn't have drawn it better on the map myself. I made sure the watch was hidden under my jacket sleeve, there is no way it had full view of the sky.

Can someone explain why speed would improve accuracy even if the watch is totally hidden under a sleeve? Perhaps it's obvious but I don't understand the technicalities.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

Pegasus said:


> Can someone explain why speed would improve accuracy even if the watch is totally hidden under a sleeve?


Speed doesn't improve accuracy, as we can do a similar test while running, put the SSU in our pockets, and get better tracks. 
All evidence seems to point to the fusespeed algo not being able to handle the Ultra hardware being swung around. 
In other words, arm swim + fusepeed + SSU accelerometer/magnetometer = f'ed up tracklog/instant pace.


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

I would say speed can improve the accuracy of the recorded points. Not the accuracy of the GPS, but the prediction of the sensor fusion might be more accurate and in turn, the filter might work better. 

I have one really annoying issue: When navigating during a move, auto pause or auto lap will revert the active screen to the first data screen, instead of going back to the one I had active (i.e. Navigation). So basically I end up constantly changing screens...


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## Unperson (Aug 23, 2016)

I noted the same when I failed to end a move a couple of months ago. Got into the car and drove for half an hour before realising the watch was still recording a move. The track from the watch (worn on my wrist) while in the car was perfectly smooth. To me that points more towards problems with software than the hardware. Perhaps their algorithm just makes a mess of the combination of sensors, compass and GPS, like mentioned above. Maybe I should run faster to get better tracks.


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

BobMiles said:


> I would say speed can improve the accuracy of the recorded points. Not the accuracy of the GPS, but the prediction of the sensor fusion might be more accurate and in turn, the filter might work better.
> 
> I have one really annoying issue: When navigating during a move, auto pause or auto lap will revert the active screen to the first data screen, instead of going back to the one I had active (i.e. Navigation). So basically I end up constantly changing screens...


Yes, I'm referring to a more fundamental accuracy specification of the GPS, accelerometer and magnetometer hardware used. Now, swinging your watch while it is combining combining data from all of them is more significant than effect of speed.


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

Unperson said:


> I noted the same when I failed to end a move a couple of months ago. Got into the car and drove for half an hour before realising the watch was still recording a move. The track from the watch (worn on my wrist) while in the car was perfectly smooth. To me that points more towards problems with software than the hardware. Perhaps their algorithm just makes a mess of the combination of sensors, compass and GPS, like mentioned above. Maybe I should run faster to get better tracks.


The inevitable "You're running too slow." meme is forming.  Like the Apple's "You're holding it wrong.".

In other news, I did another hike today with heavy foliage and some tight turns too.
Jaka_Jese's 3:11 h Hiking Move

The GPS tracking made a mess twice but was overall OK with some offsets of about 10-20 m. The weather was partly cloudy with heavy wind and constant changing pressure - the altimeter did great.

Going skiing tomorrow and will see how that goes.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Seems like first 100-200 m of any move the watch wanders to the side the watch is worn on before coming back to the track, today I gave it 10 mins before starting and that was after I recorded a move during warm up as well, also took ages to sync to phone afterwards and failed a few times, sort of bluetooth issues I had before first update.
It was a 5k course and watch gave 4.93k so at least that was ok, but given it was a fairly open road run with clear sky at all times it still showed cut corners, track offset from road rather than on it, oddly offset was to opposite side to watch hand for a change. Just end up feeling that the net errors happened to round out.


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

Got my walk today just to check if there was anything ..... well , gps it's pretty precise on the option OK .... the problem is that after a 1h walk , the Watch bugged and I had to hard reset it ... first time in 1 week though....


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## Philip Onayeti (Jun 23, 2016)

LONG_HAUL said:


> In other words, arm swim + fusepeed + SSU accelerometer/magnetometer = f'ed up tracklog/instant pace.


My GPS track is crap and my MTB moves don't use fused speed or wrist cadence. My money is on poor hardware design. Spartan looks pretty, data looks ugly.


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1445844158

https://www.movescount.com/moves/move130826477

I did an mtb ride in park , Garmin Edge 810 vs Ambit 3 Peak, alot of turns and stops , you can check by comparation acuracy


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## borgelkranz (Aug 17, 2016)

My slow "run" on sunday (8'27 min/km). The comparison is between SSU (orange) and the route planned on Movescount's map (blue):








SSU was cutting corners as can be seen here:








Most of the track is placed in a mixed forest, foliage is in recline due to winter. Sunny weather:








Distance match: planned 8.1, measured 8.0.

I can clearly live with this level of accuracy.


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## Hecke (Jun 7, 2016)

borgelkranz said:


> I can clearly live with this level of accuracy.


I see similarly good/bad (it's all relative, isn't it?) tracks with 1.4.6. One part of me is satisfied, overall evaluation of a runs seems doable now. When I first ran with my Ambit2S I was exploring the woods around my house, always getting kind of lost, and at home seeing where I really went. Also the overall distance, and thereby the average pace, is a good estimate now.
But, I want to use the watch for watching my current pace (in an interval session, for example) and for navigation (imagine in the woods, two singletrails diverge by a small angle). Those wiggles will screw up the direction for navigation, cutting corners will render the current pace inaccurate. I once ran a good time about 10m parallel to a trail because the position was off. If this happened in a race, I would be severely angry.

So, my opinion is: We are not there yet.


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## Simurgh (Aug 4, 2016)

Awful results from the first run since the update. Maybe this is only one of, but have a look at this one.

5k run pre (orange) vs post (blue) update:


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## borgelkranz (Aug 17, 2016)

Hecke said:


> So, my opinion is: We are not there yet.


I totally agree. But it seems to me we are making progress...



Hecke said:


> [...] I want to use the watch for watching my current pace (in an interval session, for example) [...]


Same with me. However I came to the conclusion that GPS is not the best possible measure for doing it, unless you are willing to live with a certain inaccuracy. My opinion is: if you want 100% accuracy regarding your pace you have to run track using a stopwatch or use a calibrated foot pod.


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

I think there have been some progress , between all the reading here and my personal experience with the Watch.... 
I would like to have a couple more things available :
ABC tools under navigation menu
countdown timer and alarm under the stopwatch menu 
weekly calories count in weekly resume 

they extended the Watch warranty by 1 year to every buyer in 2016 and that seems a good sign of commitment...wait and see


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## capcav73 (May 24, 2016)

Is it possible to change the 10k steps objective per Day or the scale of the week steps summary ? 
Thanks.


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

Philip Onayeti said:


> MTB moves don't use fused speed.


Isn't some form of a "fusedspeed" algorithm being applied on all sport modes that use GPS? That's what I thought anyway, but I would have to go and reread whatever was published on the topic to see if it is only for running.


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

borgelkranz said:


> I totally agree. But it seems to me we are making progress...
> 
> Same with me. However I came to the conclusion that GPS is not the best possible measure for doing it, unless you are willing to live with a certain inaccuracy. My opinion is: if you want 100% accuracy regarding your pace you have to run track using a stopwatch or use a calibrated foot pod.


Yes but footpod is calibrated at certain speed , on 920xt it has Automaticaly calibration but I don't know if is working

I can follow an specific pace with A3Peak , only when I run under an bridge pace is changing


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## rotia (Oct 6, 2016)

I tryed today in the swimming pool with the new firmware

I did exactly 1000 meters, only freestyle, between 25-30s each 25 meters and the final result was 1075, some swims doing breathstroke and random rest between the move...
rotiA's 0:20 h Pool swimming Move

Another day I did exactly the same with the old firmware
rotiA's 0:19 h Pool swimming Move


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

So so far with this firmware my observations are

GPS - no improvement, if not a little worse, offset to watch hand side still an issue, noticed what might be a pattern of diverging at start off move which may suggest that when it reports lock it doesn't have it fully
Compass - worse, doesn't work well, doesn't consistently point north and is laggy when moving
Syncing - worse, back to original state where it was patchy, didnt sync consistently and had failed sync's
Settings: Tones - testing to see if it repeats issue, turned tones off in movie theatre and they came back on, either I didn't turn them off properly or it re-synced the settings and used the movescount settings

Had a phone call and couldn't seem to cancel/dismiss it, somehow managed to silence it on watch but it kept ringing on phone

Also anything less than Best GPS is pointless, did a loop on a walk and it had me on the wrong side of the loop each way the offset was so bad, useless for anything other than a general sense of where you have been as far as I can tell


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

Back from the skiing trip.
Jaka_Jese's 4:41 h Alpine skiing Move

GPS set on best, only paused for longer stops (lunch and two toilet stops).

Generally the track is OK but I can see at least three errors during the 23 drops I did. I did go off-piste a couple of times but even then the track looks messed up. I wore my watch over my fleece and under my ski jacket.

Overall, I think the Spartan could do better.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Jaka83 said:


> Back from the skiing trip.
> Jaka_Jese's 4:41 h Alpine skiing Move
> 
> GPS set on best, only paused for longer stops (lunch and two toilet stops).
> ...


Hopefully speed wasn't an issue for skiing, how does it deal with runs vs lift in practice?


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Noticed a pattern where it drifts off to the watch hand side (left) at start of moves, think maybe it's reporting lock when it's not fully locked or starting to move from a dead start throws off sensors? Even did it on a track run, maybe I need to start faster









Apart from 1,2 and 4 the start point should be in the same place for each move and I usually have the GPS icon full for 5 mins before actually starting


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

PTBC said:


> Hopefully speed wasn't an issue for skiing, how does it deal with runs vs lift in practice?


I'm not sure I know what you're asking, but it's just regular GPS tracking like any other sport mode - no notifications, no extra display info, just your normal display with ascent, descent, speed, vertical speed and duration coupled with the manual or automatic lap screen (the normal auto lap preset in movescount set to distance or duration - I had mine set to off) and breadcrumb display. Nothing special here.
I was skiing with a friend who has an Ambit2 Sapphire but he hasn't uploaded his move yet and he gave up way before I did ... but he got a ton of extra metrics during the move.


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## d2i23 (Jun 7, 2016)

I just don't get it. Why have a ski mode, if there's no sport specific metrics? I had ski runs and ski lifts metrics on my ambit 1.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Jaka83 said:


> I'm not sure I know what you're asking, but it's just regular GPS tracking like any other sport mode - no notifications, no extra display info, just your normal display with ascent, descent, speed, vertical speed and duration coupled with the manual or automatic lap screen (the normal auto lap preset in movescount set to distance or duration - I had mine set to off) and breadcrumb display. Nothing special here.
> I was skiing with a friend who has an Ambit2 Sapphire but he hasn't uploaded his move yet and he gave up way before I did ... but he got a ton of extra metrics during the move.


Was wondering it it set autolaps based on descent (run)/ascent (lift) or did you manually have to mark end of runs so it kept track of total runs etc.
Sounds like it's actually pretty basic though


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

d2i23 said:


> I just don't get it. Why have a ski mode, if there's no sport specific metrics? I had ski runs and ski lifts metrics on my ambit 1.


Maybe tagline shouldn't be "making spartan stronger" it should be "making spartan do what an ambit does"
Actually maybe we should suggest that as a development goal


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

Anyone getting recovery times ?


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

Cassote said:


> Anyone getting recovery times ?


Yes I do. Do you use a HR belt?


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

d2i23 said:


> I just don't get it. Why have a ski mode, if there's no sport specific metrics? I had ski runs and ski lifts metrics on my ambit 1.


http://www.suunto.com/sports/News-Articles-container-page/Ski-Apps/


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## d2i23 (Jun 7, 2016)

krazyeone said:


> Ski Apps


Yes exactly. Why have ski mode on SPARTAN...... It's just useless


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## d2i23 (Jun 7, 2016)

PTBC said:


> Maybe tagline shouldn't be "making spartan stronger" it should be "making spartan do what an ambit does"
> Actually maybe we should suggest that as a development goal


Or maybe "making spartan usefull"


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## Philip Onayeti (Jun 23, 2016)

OMG this Spartan is useless!!!!


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

BobMiles said:


> Yes I do. Do you use a HR belt?


Yes . Well, for some reason after a 12sec upper button press and reset and a sync through the pc , the "problem" was solved.... working again ...


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## Hecke (Jun 7, 2016)

Philip Onayeti said:


> OMG this Spartan is useless!!!!


Wow, this is an incredibly bad track. Just for curiosity: Can you post the link to the move on movescount?
Where on earth do they name a trail 'defibrillator'? lol!


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Had an email today from Suunto support for a GPS issues tickets from weeks ago asking me to download the 10th Nov. firmware (itself a week old) as it was 'specifically released to improve GPS data'

Hasn't worked for me with limited testing


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## d2i23 (Jun 7, 2016)

Green line is where Spartan thought I was running, black line is where I was actually running. This is on latest firmware and SGEE data updated just before the run.o|:rodekaart


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## rdm01 (Jan 10, 2015)

I recomend to the users having a bad accuracy do the same test:

If you are going to start running somewhere close to your home, do a GPS soaking for 20 minutes and go for your run after the soaking. To do that start a fake run activity and keep recording that during 20 minutes. Then stops and delete. Then go for your run.

Please let me know if the accuracy improved for the move you records after the GPS soaking. It's only a test and it doesn't mean you have to do that every activity you are going to do.


deporteporvida.com


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

d2i23 said:


> Green line is where Spartan thought I was running, black line is where I was actually running. This is on latest firmware and SGEE data updated just before the run.o|:rodekaart
> View attachment 9946914
> View attachment 9946922
> View attachment 9946906


Looking on the positive side it's a smooth track, just way offset which a lot of people seem to get. Mine are very zigzagged as if I'm drunk and wondering aimlessly.

I will try the 'soaking' method and see if mine improves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

rdm01 said:


> I recomend to the users having a bad accuracy do the same test:
> 
> If you are going to start running somewhere close to your home, do a GPS soaking for 20 minutes and go for your run after the soaking. To do that start a fake run activity and keep recording that during 20 minutes. Then stops and delete. Then go for your run.
> 
> ...


Tried that on Sunday,started an activity during warmup, didn't make any appreciable difference


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## Philip Onayeti (Jun 23, 2016)

rdm01 said:


> I recomend to the users having a bad accuracy do the same test:
> 
> If you are going to start running somewhere close to your home, do a GPS soaking for 20 minutes and go for your run after the soaking. To do that start a fake run activity and keep recording that during 20 minutes. Then stops and delete. Then go for your run.
> 
> ...


Likewise have tried all the tricks. Had Suunto for years: T6 with Track pod and A1 through to Spartan. Definitely the worst performer by far.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt (Oct 30, 2011)

End of the Venice Marathon. A3P vs. SSU. A3P on right wrist, SSU on left. (Yes, I know, I'm repeating myself. And it's not an apology, there clearly is work to do - but it seems to me a reminder that it's not a uniform problem is in order. If it were all clearly a POS (and I don't mean point of sale...), it would be easy to find the problem / a conclusion / a solution...


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

I watched your interview at Suunto, was there discussion about accuracy and failure to deliver promised functions or were you not allowed to ask that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

rdm01 said:


> I recomend to the users having a bad accuracy do the same test:
> 
> If you are going to start running somewhere close to your home, do a GPS soaking for 20 minutes and go for your run after the soaking. To do that start a fake run activity and keep recording that during 20 minutes. Then stops and delete. Then go for your run.
> 
> ...


Just an A3p test
I warm up 1 km before without starting move, open exercice get an sattelite lock 
After few laps I slow down and start activity , fist lap had an drift 
I will repeat tomorow without first part

Of course it does not help in SSU issue but I am curious if there is an influence in GPS accuracy


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## martowl (Dec 31, 2010)

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> End of the Venice Marathon. A3P vs. SSU. A3P on right wrist, SSU on left. (Yes, I know, I'm repeating myself. And it's not an apology, there clearly is work to do - but it seems to me a reminder that it's not a uniform problem is in order. If it were all clearly a POS (and I don't mean point of sale...), it would be easy to find the problem / a conclusion / a solution...


Gerald, I looked at the entire track when you posted it and this looks perfectly acceptable for wrist-worn GPS. There clearly appears to be issues with some units and not others from what I read. I still have not purchased an SSU yet. I hope everything does get fixed before another company comes out with something much better. I like my A3P but there are things I would like it to do that it does not do....and I have been fairly happy with my Suunto devices X9, X9i, T6, T6c, Amibt 1, Ambit 2, Ambit 3.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Had a reply from Suunto support regarding a GPS ticket, initally they sugggested I upgrade to latest firmware, when I pointed out I had and there was no improvement they asked for the move that made me think that, I sent them a move with detailed explanation of where i felt it was wrong, then had this reply......

'Thank you for the link of the move and for your thorough explanation.

I can clearly see the difference of distance at the end of the activity. It's very possible that this issue is related to the fact that you're not connecting your watch to your computer regularly. When you connect your watch to your computer it will also synchronize orbital GPS data, these data are not transferred via the mobile app.

We recommend connecting your watch to your computer 3-4 times a week to have optimal GPS data, the longer you wait the worse your GPS data becomes. I suggest trying this to see if the data improves.'

So sounds like they have broken the mobile app with the latest updates, though as I had 'soaked' the watch for 20mins prior doing a warmup (which was in my explanation to Suunto) you would hope that GPS optimisation wouldn't be an issue


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## capcav73 (May 24, 2016)

PTBC said:


> Had a reply from Suunto support regarding a GPS ticket, initally they sugggested I upgrade to latest firmware, when I pointed out I had and there was no improvement they asked for the move that made me think that, I sent them a move with detailed explanation of where i felt it was wrong, then had this reply......
> 
> 'Thank you for the link of the move and for your thorough explanation.
> 
> ...


You can see in watch settings the date of the SGEE data (menu settings, general, about) 
I check this before each move and I can affirm that Android app synchronize each time the proper uptodate data (according to watch informations).


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## Philip Onayeti (Jun 23, 2016)

PTBC said:


> So sounds like they have broken the mobile app with the latest updates, though as I had 'soaked' the watch for 20mins prior doing a warmup (which was in my explanation to Suunto) you would hope that GPS optimisation wouldn't be an issue


To me it sounds like the usual irrelevant response you get when you contact Suunto service. This has been like this for years with pointless suggestions which seem almost randomly generated. It would be comical if not for the fact you are so peeved that you have a glaring problem which needs fixing.


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## Unperson (Aug 23, 2016)

After three or four runs with the new firmware I must say the GPS tracking looks a little better to me. I wasn't really bothered before since I'm a more casual runner and for hiking the GPS accuracy was already good enough not to get lost. Nevertheless, GPS tracks have not told me I ran over the pond in the park I go to for running. I probably did about ten laps around it this week and with the previous firmware one out of every three or four went straight through the pond, not so now. There's still the odd glitch but overall I'd rather see Suunto focus on sport mode customisation and trackback and POI's for navigation than more GPS improvements. Not to say there's no need for further GPS improvements but I'm more bothered by missing features now.


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## d2i23 (Jun 7, 2016)

Unperson said:


> After three or four runs with the new firmware I must say the GPS tracking looks a little better to me. I wasn't really bothered before since I'm a more casual runner and for hiking the GPS accuracy was already good enough not to get lost. Nevertheless, GPS tracks have not told me I ran over the pond in the park I go to for running. I probably did about ten laps around it this week and with the previous firmware one out of every three or four went straight through the pond, not so now. There's still the odd glitch but overall I'd rather see Suunto focus on sport mode customisation and trackback and POI's for navigation than more GPS improvements. Not to say there's no need for further GPS improvements but I'm more bothered by missing features now.


Well I have the opposite effect.Before the upgrade it was bad. Now after the upgrade it is terrible. They need to fix the GPS issues before anything else.


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## oli70 (Sep 4, 2016)

Unperson said:


> After three or four runs with the new firmware I must say the GPS tracking looks a little better to me.


For me the same. gps looks a bit better. i have hardware version G1.


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

oli70 said:


> For me the same. gps looks a bit better. i have hardware version G1.


I have the 1740G1 ...same as you, right?


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## oli70 (Sep 4, 2016)

Cassote said:


> I have the 1740G1 ...same as you, right?


Yes


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

oli70 said:


> Yes


How's your gps? 
Actually what's the ward ware versions of people having worst and most problems?


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

oli70 said:


> Yes


How's your gps? 
Actually what's the wardware versions of people having worst and most problems?


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## jeremy1271 (Mar 22, 2016)

oli70 said:


> For me the same. gps looks a bit better. i have hardware version G1.


GPS is a little better for me too but G2 here.


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## johan6504 (Aug 7, 2016)

Better, didn't miss Strava segment for the first time. On G2

Johan6504's 1:04 h Trail running Move


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

My watch is 1740G1 too and I've mostly had good tracks ... only a couple of segments in a couple of tracks were not that good - slight drifting and cut corners or knots.


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## zvojan (Sep 24, 2013)

After 8 runs I can say that GPS tracking is a little better. Street running on open sky is good now and I am satisfied. Here is today's trail run, 9 km, 350 ascent/descent.

A3p on right hand - perfect









Ssu on the left hand - good. Max deviation is 20m, but direction is ok all the time, no zig-zag....


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

I had 30km cycling move , with mixed scenario from city streets , but mostly open sky rural ... 

city part there were a couple points it was not very accurate, but as soon aS I started on open area, it has not missed a spot . G1 working perfectly , in my opinion


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

Cassote said:


> I had 30km cycling move , with mixed scenario from city streets , but mostly open sky rural ...
> 
> city part there were a couple points it was not very accurate, but as soon aS I started on open area, it has not missed a spot . G1 working perfectly , in my opinion


Check Cycling vs running
As you can see on running (slow move) watch is struggling more 
Cycling
GeorgeOprea's 1:21 h Cycling Move

Running
GeorgeOprea's 0:51 h Running Move


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## oli70 (Sep 4, 2016)

hey, the gps results dont look so bad for me. so i am still happy with the ssu and i am sure it will be better with the time. thanks for sharing some positive things. have a nice sunday evening!


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

zvojan said:


> After 8 runs I can say that GPS tracking is a little better. Street running on open sky is good now and I am satisfied. Here is today's trail run, 9 km, 350 ascent/descent.


With what software you import moves to show gps points?


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## zvojan (Sep 24, 2013)

Google Earth. Export as GPX and then check option in Google Earth.


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## MoLu (Sep 14, 2012)

krazyeone said:


> Check Cycling vs running As you can see on running (slow move) watch is struggling more Cycling GeorgeOprea's 1:21 h Cycling Move Running GeorgeOprea's 0:51 h Running Move


 But both of those moves were done with an Ambit3 Peak, not the SSU...


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

MoLu said:


> But both of those moves were done with an Ambit3 Peak, not the SSU...


Yes, it was an example to point that GPS in cycling mode is accurate than running(I think mainly watch is standing still and watching to sky) , 
pointing that users are taking conclusion based on cycling activities


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## MoLu (Sep 14, 2012)

Ah well, fair enough. Makes more sense now.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Anyone else starting to think that filtering was just tinkering around at the edges and GPS problem still not solved?

Partly based on this recent support email reply on GPS and other issues after the last update

"We are currently working on a series of firmware updates that are designed to increase the performance of this watch in several fields.
The data which you sent to us will be forwarded to the project team for analysis. 
GPS performance is still one of our main priorities and our developers are working continuously to implement optimizations through the future updates that will continue into the beginning of 2017.
This is also valid for compass or synchronization issues."


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

PTBC said:


> Anyone else starting to think that filtering was just tinkering around at the edges and GPS problem still not solved?
> 
> Partly based on this recent support email reply on GPS and other issues after the last update
> 
> ...


Yes I'm pretty sure that they found one bug, but accuracy is impaired by more than this. Mainly their fusion of accelerometer data and compass data is the big issue here in my opinion. Just look at the compass, it barely works. There's great room of improvement on the same hardware if you ask me...


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

Don't know if this is connected to 1.4.6 update or not , but aside from the delay on analog Watch faces whenever unlocking Watch , have anyone else noticed a bug in the seconds counter in the digital display? And the buggy transition between exercises ??!


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

BobMiles said:


> Yes I'm pretty sure that they found one bug, but accuracy is impaired by more than this. Mainly their fusion of accelerometer data and compass data is the big issue here in my opinion. Just look at the compass, it barely works. There's great room of improvement on the same hardware if you ask me...


Obviously a tricky subject as integration of various sensor data with some erroneous readings is being mentioned as probable cause for latest ESA martian probe failure, apparently it read negative altitude while it was still 3.7km up due to data saturation of a sensor, maybe my data isn't so bad after all!


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

I've noticed in the last days when time changed from sunny to a bit of a storm , that my altitude presented in Watch face has been changing too .... ranging from 30m to 66m if I remember correctly... and I was siting at the exact same place ...


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

This is normal, if preasure changes(droping in your case) , altitude is affected too (elevation increase)


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

krazyeone said:


> This is normal, if preasure changes(droping in your case) , altitude is affected too (elevation increase)


Yes, but in the Ambit3 they would estimate whether it was weather change or altitude,using the accelerometer. Either they don't do that in the spartan yet, or it doesn't work properly...


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

BobMiles said:


> Yes, but in the Ambit3 they would estimate whether it was weather change or altitude,using the accelerometer. Either they don't do that in the spartan yet, or it doesn't work properly...


Something else to add to the list then


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

PTBC said:


> Something else to add to the list then


I think it will come with altitude/barometric trends. At least this will be the point where you have to use that filtering, otherwise it'd be pointless...


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## Hecke (Jun 7, 2016)

Cassote said:


> Don't know if this is connected to 1.4.6 update or not , but aside from the delay on analog Watch faces whenever unlocking Watch , have anyone else noticed a bug in the seconds counter in the digital display?


My daughter used my SSU to set the kitchen clock today, and returned it to me: "It is broken!"
Apparently, the second hand (first analog display) jumped back ten seconds at one point.

I think the SSU has some kind of video buffer for every screen, and sometimes the old screen pops up long enough that you see it, and then it updates. I had this in navigation mode. Very frustrating if you go to the track display, have a short glimpse and run on, only to see a bit later that the direction has changed entirely. I was fooled by the last track image from when I left to another display of the running mode...


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## borgelkranz (Aug 17, 2016)

Hecke said:


> ...I had this in navigation mode. Very frustrating if you go to the track display, have a short glimpse and run on, only to see a bit later that the direction has changed entirely. I was fooled by the last track image from when I left to another display of the running mode...


I can confirm this. It feels like the screen is not showing the latest information and is updated a little bit later. And this "little bit" is long enough to perceive as a lag.
Same holds for the Activity view (steps). Whenever I open it after the watch was in energy saving mode, it initially shows "0". Then, the actual value is displayed with a noticeable delay.


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## Hecke (Jun 7, 2016)

borgelkranz said:


> Same holds for the Activity view (steps). Whenever I open it after the watch was in energy saving mode, it initially shows "0". Then, the actual value is displayed with a noticeable delay.


So true and so annoying. Also, the ring is already filled until the correct value, so it is not that the info is not available, but the first frame shows a zero...


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

Today I just synced and charged , and I'm set to check how much battery it consumes . My estimate sits around 1% every 2h in Watch mode , and around 1% every 10mins whenever im running for exercise with best ps option and interval recording of 1 second ... what about you guys ? Any draining in battery also ?


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

borgelkranz said:


> I can confirm this. It feels like the screen is not showing the latest information and is updated a little bit later. And this "little bit" is long enough to perceive as a lag.
> Same holds for the Activity view (steps). Whenever I open it after the watch was in energy saving mode, it initially shows "0". Then, the actual value is displayed with a noticeable delay.


I tried following the navigation screen the other day and it would seem to jump about 45 degrees to one side or the other then back to the right direction, assumed it was just the compass being flaky, but could have been related to screen refreshing


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

So Suunto is quiet so speculation time I guess...my thoughts on SGEE issues based on info and observations with latest firmware

Observations
1. Email from support saying to sync with computer not mobile for GPS data - Assume SGEE not working properly with mobile sync (support haven't responded to confirm or deny this)
2. SGEE time stamp on watch about screen shows as current date - Assume that mobile sync is updating something and not failing completely
3. Plugged watch into computer in evening and it only updated settings not GPS - Assume that it's reading SGEE time stamp and not updating as it's current
4. Left watch to charge overnight on computer and did a sync next morning, watch had been separated from phone, and GPS was updated with settings - Assume that backs up previous assumption on time stamp
5. You can't force a GPS optimisation

So my guess is that SGEE isn't working properly with mobile sync, but that as long as you are connected to your phone it won't always update it when you sync to a computer (time stamp), so SGEE can't be relied on at this point unless you take deliberate effort to not sync phone and Spartan before syncing on computer.

One of my issues is that at the start of moves the track wanders off to the watch side and I still see it on the last move where I was going through the houses on the other side of the street going out, but coming back I was on the right side of the street which would seem to support SGEE data issues.


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

do you start near to an tall buliding?


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

krazyeone said:


> do you start near to an tall buliding?


No, residential area and I started/ended at an intersection with crossings so nothing blocking visibility. On the plus side the return track was better and less wobbly than the outgoing track which hasn't always tended to be the case

Start of move, bottom track is return and follows pavement, definite difference in tracks








Midway through move following side track down into canyon to river and back, I'd say this is good given the conditions, steep slope, tree coverage etc.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Interesting bit on 5Krunner site where he is doing some GPS tests, he does stress that small samples aren't going to give definite results, based on runs with a Spartan Sport before the firmware upgrade and a Spartan Ultra after the firmware upgrade the Ultra performed worse. In fact out of the handful of tests he's done so far the Sport has one of the best scores and the Ultra has the worse. Now as he points out devices have good days and bad days and perhaps more interesting is how the new firmware performed rather than the device. also that someone that has previously had good results is seeing variability that others have seen


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## costaxo (Jan 3, 2014)

PTBC said:


> No, residential area and I started/ended at an intersection with crossings so nothing blocking visibility. On the plus side the return track was better and less wobbly than the outgoing track which hasn't always tended to be the case
> 
> Start of move, bottom track is return and follows pavement, definite difference in tracks
> View attachment 10023290
> ...


That's how the tracks are on my A3 peak everytime I do runs in residential areas. Come on guys..
On another note I saw earlier a move done on spartan from the IAU World 100k championship held in Spain yesterday. Well once again it was precise as f*ck. 10 x 10km laps and watch counted 100.6km... You'd expect it to not be able to count the distance correctly with all the gps mess but it did count 100.6km. I find that precise. Of course when you look @ the gps track close you'll find a mess but IT DID count 100km.


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

But if the Gps is all over, does not mean that instant pace is not precise?


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

costaxo said:


> That's how the tracks are on my A3 peak everytime I do runs in residential areas. Come on guys..
> On another note I saw earlier a move done on spartan from the IAU World 100k championship held in Spain yesterday. Well once again it was precise as f*ck. 10 x 10km laps and watch counted 100.6km... You'd expect it to not be able to count the distance correctly with all the gps mess but it did count 100.6km. I find that precise. Of course when you look @ the gps track close you'll find a mess but IT DID count 100km.


Of course, because the corner cutting cancels out the wobbly GPS track 
Maybe its a feature!


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## johan6504 (Aug 7, 2016)

krazyeone said:


> But if the Gps is all over, does not mean that instant pace is not precise?


Yes it does.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

costaxo said:


> That's how the tracks are on my A3 peak everytime I do runs in residential areas. Come on guys..
> On another note I saw earlier a move done on spartan from the IAU World 100k championship held in Spain yesterday. Well once again it was precise as f*ck. 10 x 10km laps and watch counted 100.6km... You'd expect it to not be able to count the distance correctly with all the gps mess but it did count 100.6km. I find that precise. Of course when you look @ the gps track close you'll find a mess but IT DID count 100km.


Just means the the sum of the errors was close to zero, the range of the errors is the issue, especially for use during the move.

As for my post above I'm commenting more on the variability and that I'd like to see the outgoing and return lines show similar degrees of accuracy as it's obviously capable of it.

Reading online it seems that if distance accuracy is the goal then a footpod is the recommended way to go; generally distance hasn't been the main complaint I've seen here, I've had a few outliers (worst was 4.3km on a 5km course), but generally I'd say distance is within 95% with a marked tendency to be short. That said I had 4.93km on a 5km course where Suunto support acknowledged the overall track wasn't good even though the distance accuracy was pretty spot on.

Ideally we want to see something like the red curve (just a random distribution image I grabbed online)


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## Philip Onayeti (Jun 23, 2016)

krazyeone said:


> But if the Gps is all over, does not mean that instant pace is not precise?


I was recently on a chairlift in alpine area moving at constant speed with clear view of the sky. Instant speed was still varying between 8-13km/hr.


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

Lets just hope next software version corrects some of this miscalculations... how much battery drain you guys are getting per day on 1.4.6 on Watch mode ?


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Philip Onayeti said:


> I was recently on a chairlift in alpine area moving at constant speed with clear view of the sky. Instant speed was still varying between 8-13km/hr.
> 
> View attachment 10050202


So no detection of run vs lift? Just continuous recording or does it do some form of automatic interval reporting?


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

PTBC said:


> So no detection of run vs lift? Just continuous recording or does it do some form of automatic interval reporting?


It does not do any automatic interval reporting, not during the move or after syncing with Movescount. It's the usual parameters ... this is how my ski run looked after syncing:


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## bruceames (Jul 20, 2013)

costaxo said:


> That's how the tracks are on my A3 peak everytime I do runs in residential areas. Come on guys..


Does not look that wobbly on my A3P when I run in residential areas. Sure there may be a slight offset where it shows I'm running on everyone's front lawns, but at least the line will comform to the shape of the straightness or curvature of the road and not go all over the place like the track shown above.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

bruceames said:


> Does not look that wobbly on my A3P when I run in residential areas. Sure there may be a slight offset where it shows I'm running on everyone's front lawns, but at least the line will comform to the shape of the straightness or curvature of the road and not go all over the place like the track shown above.


Thanks, I was trying to highlight that it may not be locking on fully at start despite reporting lock which may be due to not having up to date SGEE data due to sync issues and that the wobbly upper line which was start was very different to the end line which was good which supported that theory.


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## rdm01 (Jan 10, 2015)

Jaka83 said:


> It does not do any automatic interval reporting, not during the move or after syncing with Movescount. It's the usual parameters ... this is how my ski run looked after syncing:
> View attachment 10052042


89.9 km/h max speed!!! You're crazy, man :-D


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

rdm01 said:


> 89.9 km/h max speed!!! You're crazy, man :-D


That's actually not the fastest I've gone on skis if only for a very short time. But to be clear, you need to have control at all times. If the piste is clear and you don't pose any danger to other skiers or to yourself, then go for it - it's a joy carving at very high speeds.


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## no4 (Aug 26, 2016)

Answer from Support:

"Thank you for contacting Suunto and please accept our apologies for the delayed response. 

We are sorry to hear about this issue with the altitude on your Suunto Spartan. 

Please note that altitude readings can be influenced by external factors like gusts of wind or sudden changes in air pressure, as the altitude readings are partially based on the watch's pressure sensor. 

Also, please keep in mind the fact that the auto-adjust function does not react immediately. It may need 10 to 20 minutes and you need to be on the street or in open air. 

It is important to make sure that you have the latest firmware version too. The latest such version is 1.4.6. You can update via SuuntoLink. 

Should you have additional questions or need further assistance, do not hesitate to contact us."

So, what?

Why in that case A2 in the same time and place shows altitude properly?

Even I had changed altitude manually and put watch on table it was changing (go down from 45m to -200m)

FYI
I have watch updated and there is no wind gusts at my home.


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## gousias (Oct 18, 2015)

I think that anyone who has a case with SUUNTO and an open communication should ask those questions you mentioned (like the Ambit 2 that you say it is correct) to them. It would be quite interesting to see their answers!


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

I did, I highlighted how far behind their 'old' Ambit 3 the 'new' Spartan Ultra was. They apologised and said an update is due to correct all the issues.

We will wait (longer) and see. I also got offered some gifts for the inconvenience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

The iOS app has just been updated for better connectivity with spartan.... there have been some tweaking in the webpage for movescount I think... so we might be gettin g new update on spartan this week..
can someone test this new app in iOS (my spartan is flying to Finland for servicing )


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Cassote said:


> The iOS app has just been updated for better connectivity with spartan.... there have been some tweaking in the webpage for movescount I think... so we might be gettin g new update on spartan this week..
> can someone test this new app in iOS (my spartan is flying to Finland for servicing )


Not tested with uploading a move, but just opening it to do an update after updating app and it did seem to find the watch quicker when I started and seemed to update and SGEE entry in 'About' had today's date on it.

I've been having some failed sync, having to shut app down and re-sync multiple times since the previous firmware update which was very similar to when it was first released.

By manual sync I mean opening app, clicking on gear then selecting the spartan ultra option.


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

PTBC said:


> Not tested with uploading a move, but just opening it to do an update after updating app and it did seem to find the watch quicker when I started and seemed to update and SGEE entry in 'About' had today's date on it.
> 
> I've been having some failed sync, having to shut app down and re-sync multiple times since the previous firmware update which was very similar to when it was first released.
> 
> By manual sync I mean opening app, clicking on gear then selecting the spartan ultra option.


The SGEE beeing update is nice... someone pointed this was not working properly ...


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Cassote said:


> The SGEE beeing update is nice... someone pointed this was not working properly ...


I had an email from support saying it didn't work, then another email form support saying it did and no further reply to the question asking for clarification


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

PTBC said:


> I had an email from support saying it didn't work, then another email form support saying it did and no further reply to the question asking for clarification


I sent my spartan today due to battery drain issues . Good support , coherent information . Satisfied customer !

And and they even provided pick up thru UPS directly at house , even though ups did not had local pick ups avoiding any cost for me...


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## Oeffi (Sep 29, 2016)

After several disappointments (GPS accuracy wise) with the G1 SSU I've sent it back to Suunto and they've immediately replaced it with a new unit (now G2) and the first 2 runs with the latest FW showed significantly better GPS accuracies, which was quite satisfying to me. But today I had problems in getting a GPS lock before I started my standard 15km run, so I thought just hit 'start' and GPS will be there somewhere within the first couple of hundred meters, this worked perfectly with my Ambit2 before. After I've finished the run, no GPS data at all! So the complete track was measured based on Fused Speed only (13,6 km instead of 15km) and GPS couldn't get locked for the whole run! Is this possible? Someone having similar experiences? It should work, right? So starting a run without having GPS locked, and after a while the SSU should find a proper GPS signal and switch from Fused Speed to GPS tracking....


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

Oeffi said:


> After several disappointments (GPS accuracy wise) with the G1 SSU I've sent it back to Suunto and they've immediately replaced it with a new unit (now G2) and the first 2 runs with the latest FW showed significantly better GPS accuracies, which was quite satisfying to me. But today I had problems in getting a GPS lock before I started my standard 15km run, so I thought just hit 'start' and GPS will be there somewhere within the first couple of hundred meters, this worked perfectly with my Ambit2 before. After I've finished the run, no GPS data at all! So the complete track was measured based on Fused Speed only (13,6 km instead of 15km) and GPS couldn't get locked for the whole run! Is this possible? Someone having similar experiences? It should work, right? So starting a run without having GPS locked, and after a while the SSU should find a proper GPS signal and switch from Fused Speed to GPS tracking....


I have a G1 and no major GPS issues, we discussed this earlier in the thread and people had both experiences with any hardware revision.
13,6km from FusedSpeed alone is impressive, but could be random as well. GPS fix is harder to aquire when you're moving - so if you had no sattelites at start it might end up trying and failing the whole run. I had this with other watches, but not with the Ambit3, which basically always got its GPS fix right away.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Any expectations of an update tomorrow?


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## johan6504 (Aug 7, 2016)




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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

PTBC said:


> Any expectations of an update tomorrow?


To be honest, no... They seem to be busy fixing GPS. It is awful that sport mode customization is listed under development, not coming soon. Coming soon also takes months apparently..


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

Nothing as of yet, I think we are weeks away judging from conversations with support, then there is probably a break for Christmas which will cause more delays.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mercuir0 (Mar 24, 2015)

BobMiles said:


> To be honest, no... They seem to be busy fixing GPS. It is awful that sport mode customization is listed under development, not coming soon. Coming soon also takes months apparently..


unluckily they aren't working on fixing the gps problems. the beta updates added charts for pressure and altitude, a more detailed training view, planed moves, the possibility to configure target steps and calories. that's it so far... regarding the sport mode customization they just started to implement it in movescount (it's freaking me out how they work, apparently they try to reinvent the wheel as often as possible, completely senseless) and that's the only thing missing, but looking at the speed they're working at it will take them at least two weeks to release it...


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## oli70 (Sep 4, 2016)

mercuir0 said:


> unluckily they aren't working on fixing the gps problems. the beta updates added charts for pressure and altitude, a more detailed training view, planed moves, the possibility to configure target steps and calories. that's it so far... regarding the sport mode customization they just started to implement it in movescount (it's freaking me out how they work, apparently they try to reinvent the wheel as often as possible, completely senseless) and that's the only thing missing, but looking at the speed they're working at it will take them at least two weeks to release it...


I think they do work on gps issues, but didnt reached beta phase yet... Well i hope so.


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## marcomueller (Aug 18, 2016)

mercuir0 said:


> unluckily they aren't working on fixing the gps problems. the beta updates added charts for pressure and altitude, a more detailed training view, planed moves, the possibility to configure target steps and calories. that's it so far... regarding the sport mode customization they just started to implement it in movescount (it's freaking me out how they work, apparently they try to reinvent the wheel as often as possible, completely senseless) and that's the only thing missing, but looking at the speed they're working at it will take them at least two weeks to release it...


Thanks for your information! What do you think when the next uptade is published? And when do you think the sport mode settings are released? I resent the whole thing too!!! The GPS is still a catastrophe!!!


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

mercuir0 said:


> unluckily they aren't working on fixing the gps problems. the beta updates added charts for pressure and altitude, a more detailed training view, planed moves, the possibility to configure target steps and calories. that's it so far... regarding the sport mode customization they just started to implement it in movescount (it's freaking me out how they work, apparently they try to reinvent the wheel as often as possible, completely senseless) and that's the only thing missing, but looking at the speed they're working at it will take them at least two weeks to release it...


Thanks for the inside information! Two weeks to release what? The customization or the watch update that you already have a beta of? 
Gitta admit I'm looking forward to having those graphs!


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

How often betas are released ?


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

mercuir0 said:


> unluckily they aren't working on fixing the gps problems. the beta updates added charts for pressure and altitude, a more detailed training view, planed moves, the possibility to configure target steps and calories. that's it so far... regarding the sport mode customization they just started to implement it in movescount (it's freaking me out how they work, apparently they try to reinvent the wheel as often as possible, completely senseless) and that's the only thing missing, but looking at the speed they're working at it will take them at least two weeks to release it...


Thanks once again for the information, it helps, but also highlights how badly Suunto is managing the situation and it's lack of transparency to owners of the watch. I appreciate that the original attempt to show dates backfired on them, but they seem to have retreated back even further now.


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## johan6504 (Aug 7, 2016)

mercuir0 said:


> unluckily they aren't working on fixing the gps problems. the beta updates added charts for pressure and altitude, a more detailed training view, planed moves, the possibility to configure target steps and calories. that's it so far... regarding the sport mode customization they just started to implement it in movescount (it's freaking me out how they work, apparently they try to reinvent the wheel as often as possible, completely senseless) and that's the only thing missing, but looking at the speed they're working at it will take them at least two weeks to release it...


What the fu**k, not working on GPS fix. Are you serious!!!! What are Suunto doing?


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## Zirconn (Jul 17, 2016)

I'd expect a different teams to work on the GPS issues. Probably with help & support from CSR, the maker of the SiRFstarV.


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## buenosbias (Aug 18, 2016)

BobMiles said:


> I have a G1 and no major GPS issues, we discussed this earlier in the thread and people had both experiences with any hardware revision.
> 13,6km from FusedSpeed alone is impressive, but could be random as well. GPS fix is harder to aquire when you're moving - so if you had no sattelites at start it might end up trying and failing the whole run. I had this with other watches, but not with the Ambit3, which basically always got its GPS fix right away.


Same here. I also have a G1. GPS is working rather fine since the last update. Not quite Ambit3 level, but really OK. Sometimes, my SSU still seems to lose it, but rarely now, and it gets back on track quite reliably. Some of the supposedly "bad" SSU tracks which I see posted here aren't that bad IMHO. My Ambit3 produces similar ones.


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## paul1928 (Jul 27, 2013)

johan6504 said:


> What the fu**k, not working on GPS fix. Are you serious!!!! What are Suunto doing?


Believing everything you read in Internet forums leads to events like BREXIT and Donald Trump being voted POTUS. Always advisable to apply some critical thinking.


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## IronP (Aug 8, 2016)

Suunto is working in more serious issues than the training views, etc....
here a copy of what suunto sent to me as a feedback of my problems with the SSU:









 
Dear customerThank you for your patience with case and we apologize for the delay in our response.

Our Performance Dept. have reviewed your case. The jamming incidents are already a crucial issue with the watch and our R&D Dept has already been notified about this. At the moment, the are putting all efforts to rectify this issue on the upcoming software updates for the Spartan Ultra. We ask for your kind understanding about this issue and we will do our best to release this updates as soon as possible.

_Check the latest software updates for your Spartan and the newest Movescount features and help us make the Suunto Spartan Stronger: _Suunto Spartan gets stronger via software updates


   










ref:_00Db0ILKF._500b0rYZmB:refThis e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.


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## borgelkranz (Aug 17, 2016)

buenosbias said:


> Same here. I also have a G1. GPS is working rather fine since the last update. Not quite Ambit3 level, but really OK. Sometimes, my SSU still seems to lose it, but rarely now, and it gets back on track quite reliably. Some of the supposedly "bad" SSU tracks which I see posted here aren't that bad IMHO. My Ambit3 produces similar ones.


I also have the G1. My last comparison with a friend's Ambit2R was ok for me. I included the planned route as reference to make clear that even the Ambit line isn't perfect (though undisputably more precise).

What still strikes me as interesting is the altitude. I did not set the reference altitude before starting the run. And one can clearly see an offset there. For me this function still feels broken. As things now stand I have to manually adjust the reference altitude at least once a day...


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## mercuir0 (Mar 24, 2015)

Cassote said:


> How often betas are released ?


every friday for spartan ultra, sport and sport hr and every second day for spartan trainer


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## mercuir0 (Mar 24, 2015)

BobMiles said:


> Thanks for the inside information! Two weeks to release what? The customization or the watch update that you already have a beta of?
> Gitta admit I'm looking forward to having those graphs!


two weeks to release the sport mode cusmization if they speed up to max, but as holidays are coming i would rather guess january...


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt (Oct 30, 2011)

paul1928 said:


> Believing everything you read in Internet forums leads to events like BREXIT and Donald Trump being voted POTUS. Always advisable to apply some critical thinking.


+1. As much as I wish Suunto were more forthcoming about what they're working on... somebody who feels in a position to leak details isn't in a position privy to inside information.

Just by logic (yeah, I know, dangerous to assume for companies, at times), does anyone really think that Suunto isn't looking into improving the GPS issues? (Maybe long_haul, who thinks they will have to recall that watch. From that point of view, it would make sense. But otherwise?)


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## mercuir0 (Mar 24, 2015)

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> +1. As much as I wish Suunto were more forthcoming about what they're working on... somebody who feels in a position to leak details isn't in a position privy to inside information.
> 
> Just by logic (yeah, I know, dangerous to assume for companies, at times), does anyone really think that Suunto isn't looking into improving the GPS issues? (Maybe long_haul, who thinks they will have to recall that watch. From that point of view, it would make sense. But otherwise?)


true, i joust found some open doors in suuntos ecosystem... so no real inside information, though i never claimed that...

and just by logic, did anyone really think back in july that suunto would release a watch as unfinished as the spartan is? my fear is that the problem is the antenna design and there is little they can do by modifying the firmware... just look how accurate the gps signal is when the screen is pointed at the sky (e.g. handle bar mount) and how bad it is when worn on your wrist... i still hope i'm wrong though...


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## LONG_HAUL (Aug 14, 2016)

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> +1. As much as I wish Suunto were more forthcoming about what they're working on... somebody who feels in a position to leak details isn't in a position privy to inside information.
> 
> Just by logic (yeah, I know, dangerous to assume for companies, at times), does anyone really think that Suunto isn't looking into improving the GPS issues? (Maybe long_haul, who thinks they will have to recall that watch. From that point of view, it would make sense. But otherwise?)


I sold my Spartan Ultra. I don't think I will ever buy another Suunto/Garmin/Polar watch again. Good luck guys!


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## rdm01 (Jan 10, 2015)

LONG_HAUL said:


> I sold my Spartan Ultra. I don't think I will ever buy another Suunto/Garmin/Polar watch again. Good luck guys!


What about a TomTom?

deporteporvida.com


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## krazyeone (Aug 30, 2016)

LONG_HAUL said:


> I sold my Spartan Ultra. I don't think I will ever buy another Suunto/Garmin/Polar watch again. Good luck guys!


I am curious what you chose
Apple ?


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

mercuir0 said:


> true, i joust found some open doors in suuntos ecosystem... so no real inside information, though i never claimed that...
> 
> and just by logic, did anyone really think back in july that suunto would release a watch as unfinished as the spartan is? my fear is that the problem is the antenna design and there is little they can do by modifying the firmware... just look how accurate the gps signal is when the screen is pointed at the sky (e.g. handle bar mount) and how bad it is when worn on your wrist... i still hope i'm wrong though...


Allow me to disagree.... I cycled about 30 km with some 5 km inside city and the rest in rural area... it's a old road bike , and having goes on left wrist , pointing to the left side of the road it tracked very good , with only some difficult one spots with major buildings at the beginning ... mine it's a G1 (or was .... arrived this morning for servicing at suunto , now I'll wait to see if the just repair or exchange . Battery drain problem )


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## IronP (Aug 8, 2016)

LONG_HAUL said:


> I sold my Spartan Ultra. I don't think I will ever buy another Suunto/Garmin/Polar watch again. Good luck guys!


I also thought about selling my SSU, but I would have just a bad feeling on giving this trouble watch to someone else...so mine is lying on my desk!
For the moment, I will use my apple watch series 2, that is just an amazing seemless experience combined with the iphone! Fantastic display and no lags or jamming software!
For extra long trainings (more than 5h), I will use my old and good A3P...though.
And as you wrote....same for me, I don´t think I will never buy another suunto/ polar or garmin watch again....this companies are just throughing beta products to the market!
I really thought that suunto was the last serious company in the market, but with the SSU release, its proven that they decided to be together with the competition.
If just apple decide to invest a little more on the watch interace, all the other companies can close the doors. In fact strava is coming strong in 2017 with new apple watch features.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

IronP said:


> I also thought about selling my SSU, but I would have just a bad feeling on giving this trouble watch to someone else...so mine is lying on my desk!
> For the moment, I will use my apple watch series 2, that is just an amazing seemless experience combined with the iphone! Fantastic display and no lags or jamming software!
> For extra long trainings (more than 5h), I will use my old and good A3P...though.


That's why I haven't sold mine, couldn't bring myself to dump it on someone else!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oli70 (Sep 4, 2016)

Would be interesting to see running track with fusedspeed disabled... I have the feeling that result gets bad because of fusedspeed which doesnt work properly. Maybe theres possibility to use alternative type of move for testing that.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

johan6504 said:


> What the fu**k, not working on GPS fix. Are you serious!!!! What are Suunto doing?


I read it as the current beta's do not include a GPS fix, very different from not working on it


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> +1. As much as I wish Suunto were more forthcoming about what they're working on... somebody who feels in a position to leak details isn't in a position privy to inside information.
> 
> Just by logic (yeah, I know, dangerous to assume for companies, at times), does anyone really think that Suunto isn't looking into improving the GPS issues? (Maybe long_haul, who thinks they will have to recall that watch. From that point of view, it would make sense. But otherwise?)


Makes no sense at all to create produce and abandon a product just because software has flaws ... I there is support , the problems will be solved


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## marcomueller (Aug 18, 2016)

No uptade for this week again! It's just more incredible!!!


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## jhonzatko (Dec 8, 2012)

I don't think we will see any update till the end of this year ...


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

jhonzatko said:


> I don't think we will see any update till the end of this year ...


On the one hand no updates hopefully means they are concentrating on the GPS problem........on the other hand the fact it's taking this long with no word of progress on GPS and the comment that current beta's don't have GPS fixes is starting to be worrying.


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## Philip Onayeti (Jun 23, 2016)

I'm beginning to wonder about the possibility of hardware inconsistencies between units. My Spartan Sport has been nothing but disappointing wrt GPS tracking. However my wife's Spartan has always been somewhat better.....perhaps on par with Traverse.

Same vintage, same HW version, updated together & this move we rode together both wearing on same side wrist:


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## jhonzatko (Dec 8, 2012)

I don't think it is possible to correct the gps problem via software. It looks like "by design" issue and therefore you can't it completely solve by sw fix.
It's similar situation like with Fenix 3 ... the gps si very weak from the beginning and after many fw updates, there is no change in term of precision.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Philip Onayeti said:


> I'm beginning to wonder about the possibility of hardware inconsistencies between units. My Spartan Sport has been nothing but disappointing wrt GPS tracking. However my wife's Spartan has always been somewhat better.....perhaps on par with Traverse.
> 
> Same vintage, same HW version, updated together & this move we rode together both wearing on same side wrist:


Could be

Generally as a starting point variability with same device is more likely to be software related, variability between devices is more likely to be component/hardware related, though not always the case. Trouble shooting is partly about identifying the differences to try to determine root cause.


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

Philip Onayeti said:


> I'm beginning to wonder about the possibility of hardware inconsistencies between units. My Spartan Sport has been nothing but disappointing wrt GPS tracking. However my wife's Spartan has always been somewhat better.....perhaps on par with Traverse.
> 
> Same vintage, same HW version, updated together & this move we rode together both wearing on same side wrist:
> 
> View attachment 10149762


You definitely should send those two moves to suunto! Maybe it'll help!


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## d2i23 (Jun 7, 2016)

PTBC said:


> Could be
> 
> Generally as a starting point variability with same device is more likely to be software related, variability between devices is more likely to be component/hardware related, though not always the case. Trouble shooting is partly about identifying the differences to try to determine root cause.


Yea. The root cause is that they made a sh_itty watch and now we're wipeing up the mess. I'm sick and tired of being lied to. Had three days of skiing with the last ride always on the same slope but SSu drew three different tracks. Strava didn't even pick up a segment, so I created one myself for day one and it didn't get picked up by day two or three. On day three SSU even froze mid activity and didn't pick up any sensor information, no HR, no speed and no elevation or temperature, just gps sensor info. To hell with this piece of crap.


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## jhonzatko (Dec 8, 2012)

I have got an update for Suuntolink today ... maybe it's something on the way?


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## Cassote (Nov 11, 2016)

jhonzatko said:


> I have got an update for Suuntolink today ... maybe it's something on the way?


2.1.48 ? That one was out on December 1st


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## borgelkranz (Aug 17, 2016)

Philip Onayeti said:


> ...
> 
> Same vintage, same HW version, updated together & this move we rode together both wearing on same side wrist:
> 
> View attachment 10149762


Looks bad indeed. 

What bugs me most is missing reliability. By and large I am quite content (not happy) with the Spartan's performance. But then and again it freaks me out.

Some days I get this:







(orange is the reference, three consecutive runs on the same track recorded individually because I tried to make my Stryd Summit work; link to MyGPSFiles):

On other days I get this:







(reposted from post #221; link to MyGPSFiles)

The latter move shows that the SSU is capable of providing accurate tracks. The first move shows shows (to me at last) that one cannot rely on it for serious training, as the reported distances show:









Well, at least the SSU comes out shorter than other instruments most of the time...









(purple is the reference track; link to MyGPSFiles)
I did this run with a friend who wore his new Apple Watch Nike+. Sadly he has not figured out how to share an GPX but the reported distances were devastating for the SSU:

Reference track: 8,36 km
SSU: 7.78 km
Stryd summit: 8 km
Apple Watch Nike+: 8,36 km

Let's say that I am quite anxious what further updates bring in terms of reliability and coherence...


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## IronP (Aug 8, 2016)

d2i23 said:


> Yea. The root cause is that they made a sh_itty watch and now we're wipeing up the mess. I'm sick and tired of being lied to. Had three days of skiing with the last ride always on the same slope but SSu drew three different tracks. Strava didn't even pick up a segment, so I created one myself for day one and it didn't get picked up by day two or three. On day three SSU even froze mid activity and didn't pick up any sensor information, no HR, no speed and no elevation or temperature, just gps sensor info. To hell with this piece of crap.


I had also a jamming issue while in a competition! Very very annoying! Suunto replied to my case, saying that the jamming issue is known to them and they are working on a fix. However this was in beginning november....!


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## Oeffi (Sep 29, 2016)

IronP said:


> I also thought about selling my SSU, but I would have just a bad feeling on giving this trouble watch to someone else...so mine is lying on my desk!
> For the moment, I will use my apple watch series 2, that is just an amazing seemless experience combined with the iphone! Fantastic display and no lags or jamming software!
> For extra long trainings (more than 5h), I will use my old and good A3P...though.
> And as you wrote....same for me, I don´t think I will never buy another suunto/ polar or garmin watch again....this companies are just throughing beta products to the market!
> ...


Thanks for sharing! But what about the GPS accuracy with the Apple Watch2? Would you recommend it? Is it on par with the Aambit2/3? I'm also considering this move towards Apple! Many thanks


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

I can't believe people are actually throwing Apple's shiny hipster watch in the same bag as robust sport watches. I mean, the Apple Watch (1st or 2nd series) isn't even fully water proof. It might be OK for swimming but I wouldn't risk it if even Apple states that it has problems with sealing.
Well, to each their own and if it floats your boat (no pun intended), then go for it. I wouldn't even consider it for a sport tracking watch.


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## martowl (Dec 31, 2010)

Jaka83 said:


> I can't believe people are actually throwing Apple's shiny hipster watch in the same bag as robust sport watches. I mean, the Apple Watch (1st or 2nd series) isn't even fully water proof. It might be OK for swimming but I wouldn't risk it if even Apple states that it has problems with sealing.
> Well, to each their own and if it floats your boat (no pun intended), then go for it. I wouldn't even consider it for a sport tracking watch.


The AW2 is fully waterproof and recognizes swim strokes. iSmoothRun is an amazing iPhone app that can pair with the watch and provide all the running metrics and intervals you need. iSmoothrun will upload directly to Movescount as well. The developer is going to support native GPS in the AW2 so you can run without the phone. Both Stryd and the iSmoothRun developer are looking into supporting power for running on the AW2.

For me, I have thought about getting an AW2 and this might push me over the edge. I could record all of my weekly runs/workouts with the AW2. My weekend runs are too long and will require my A3P. I would like to have the smartwatch features the AW2 offers and the integration with my iPhone. Even when SSU is fully fixed and has all of the planned features, it will not have any reasonable smartwatch capabilities. AW2 can use a chest HR strap as well instead of the optical, it works with the Suunto Movesense HR transmitter.

I run ultra marathons and I am considering an Apple Watch....I don't think you are giving it enough credit. For anything 4h or so (they say 5 max) it is a reasonable sports watch. Just my opinion. I don't have an AW but my wife does...pretty cool device.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

borgelkranz said:


> Looks bad indeed.
> 
> What bugs me most is missing reliability. By and large I am quite content (not happy) with the Spartan's performance. But then and again it freaks me out.
> ........
> Let's say that I am quite anxious what further updates bring in terms of reliability and coherence...


Yes, I took the dog out in the snow, watch under my coat and just started it straight off, no warmup etc. and had this








Which looks good especially given the conditions and better than a lot of other moves I've had. Also did my first cycling move and it was much more accurate as others have noted.


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

martowl said:


> The AW2 is fully waterproof and recognizes swim strokes. iSmoothRun is an amazing iPhone app that can pair with the watch and provide all the running metrics and intervals you need. iSmoothrun will upload directly to Movescount as well. The developer is going to support native GPS in the AW2 so you can run without the phone. Both Stryd and the iSmoothRun developer are looking into supporting power for running on the AW2.
> 
> For me, I have thought about getting an AW2 and this might push me over the edge. I could record all of my weekly runs/workouts with the AW2. My weekend runs are too long and will require my A3P. I would like to have the smartwatch features the AW2 offers and the integration with my iPhone. Even when SSU is fully fixed and has all of the planned features, it will not have any reasonable smartwatch capabilities. AW2 can use a chest HR strap as well instead of the optical, it works with the Suunto Movesense HR transmitter.
> 
> I run ultra marathons and I am considering an Apple Watch....I don't think you are giving it enough credit. For anything 4h or so (they say 5 max) it is a reasonable sports watch. Just my opinion. I don't have an AW but my wife does...pretty cool device.


Tell me how that native GPS function drains your battery when/if it gets enabled.

Apple Watch 2 is water resistant ? but don't swim with it - Business Insider

Apple Watch and water resistance: a quick guide to proper use and care

And finally:
https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT205000

But go ahead, it's your money.


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## martowl (Dec 31, 2010)

Jaka83 said:


> Tell me how that native GPS function drains your battery when/if it gets enabled.
> 
> Apple Watch 2 is water resistant ? but don't swim with it - Business Insider
> 
> ...


If you take care to read the apple support article it has a separate section for the AW2, which is waterproof for swimming. According to these folks that use it and tested it, unlike the links you sent me it works well in the pool, not so hot for outdoor swimming.
Apple Watch Series 2: A Swimmer's Perspective - Mac Rumors
A swimmer's view of Apple Watch Series 2 [Review]
.
AW2 is not an ideal sports watch, we all know that but...the price is half of an SSU. GPS on the watch will last a significant amount of time, certainly enough for most marathons
Apple Watch 2: the full 26.2 mile marathon test | TechRadar

I still think it would be nice to have as a smartwatch...the features for me that are problematic are the lack of altimeter, which if the Stryd summit does get implemented with an app could potentially record altitude as it has an altimeter. And the other issue is exporting data. When iSmoothRun has a standalone app on the phone that problem will likely be solved. Runkeeper already has a standalone app that transfers the data out.


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## wydim (Feb 26, 2012)

Like Martowl wrote, AW series 2 (which just came out) is water-resistant to 50m. Also, according to the apple support article, that means you can swim with it (not dive to 50m).

Jaka83, I too had this opinion the AW. But recently I bought it as a gift to my girlfriend (will give it to her for Christmas) and let me tell you why I think it's a good watch for her. She's already in the apple ecosystem. She's a casual runner, and a good swimmer. We also do bike rides together sometimes, and she started to participate in Triathlons 2 years ago. Previously, I asked her if she wanted to have a training watch like mine and she told me it would look ridiculous on her skinny wrists.

With the AW2, she'll be able to ditch the Iphone during her runs and also record the swims and rides ! She'll also be very happy to be able to answer the phone while having her hands full with our baby or if we have our hands tied cooking or washing the dishes.

Finally, I think it's also beautifully designed and elegant with a dress.

She is not an extreme athlete like some of us here that need (or want) a dedicated tough training watch, but I think it's plenty useful for her. I think the AW2 has its place as an all-rounder training and fitness smartwatch. I'll give you my contradictory opinion if needed, when she puts it in use for real (next year).


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

These are quotes from Apple's FAQ that I linked to earlier (https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT205000):


> Apple Watch Series 2 may be used for shallow water activities like swimming in a pool or ocean. However, Apple Watch Series 2 shouldn't be used for scuba diving, water skiing, or other activities involving high velocity water.





> Water resistance isn't a permanent condition and may diminish over time. Apple Watch can't be rechecked or resealed for water resistance. The following may affect the water resistance of your Apple Watch and should be avoidedropping Apple Watch or subjecting it to other impacts.
> Exposing Apple Watch to soap or soapy water.
> Exposing Apple Watch to perfume, solvents, detergent, acids or acidic foods, insect repellent, lotions, sunscreen, oil, or hair dye.
> Exposing Apple Watch to high velocity water, for example while water skiing.
> Wearing Apple Watch in the sauna or steam room.





> After swimming, gently rinse Apple Watch Series 2 with warm tap water. Dry Apple Watch and the band thoroughly if they're exposed to fresh water.


I don't know about you, but these words from Apple are discouraging to me. I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people, but I don't see it as a proper sport watch.
IMO it's not wise to mix sport watches and smart watches, because there are going to be compromises on both fronts. On top of that, you're pretty much tied to the Apple eco system, as the watch does not function as well without an iPhone.
And as I said before, it might work for you, but for many others I don't think it's a viable option.
For proper training I'd recommend an A3P, even if it's old hardware.The Spartan is clearly having issues right now - for me it's working quite well so far, even tho it's missing a lot of features, but GPS has been generally good to great. Battery life - not a concern at all.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

Jaka83 said:


> These are quotes from Apple's FAQ that I linked to earlier (https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT205000):
> 
> I don't know about you, but these words from Apple are discouraging to me. I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people, but I don't see it as a proper sport watch.
> IMO it's not wise to mix sport watches and smart watches, because there are going to be compromises on both fronts. On top of that, you're pretty much tied to the Apple eco system, as the watch does not function as well without an iPhone.
> ...


In fairness I recall the Spartan terms of use have notes about insect repellents and stuff like that and they have also advisory not to use for scuba diving etc. Some of this stuff is generic and for legal protection more than anything else. Anyone who is even half serious about water-sports will understand the issues with waterproofing well enough to know the basic limitations, I wouldn't take an AW2 snorkeling let alone scuba diving, but I would take the Spartan assuming it was something casual. I've done 40m-50m wreck dives in my younger days, you use dedicated equipment for that sort of stuff

Now battery life is another issue, my wife has the original AW and that would definitely be a concern


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## 604 (Aug 30, 2016)

If you care about accurate data, I'd trust Ginger Runner's review. I don't think the Apple Watch is an option at all. As a sporadic runner that wants a smartwatch, maybe:


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## Oeffi (Sep 29, 2016)

Jaka83 said:


> I can't believe people are actually throwing Apple's shiny hipster watch in the same bag as robust sport watches. I mean, the Apple Watch (1st or 2nd series) isn't even fully water proof. It might be OK for swimming but I wouldn't risk it if even Apple states that it has problems with sealing.
> Well, to each their own and if it floats your boat (no pun intended), then go for it. I wouldn't even consider it for a sport tracking watch.


I know what you mean, and I actually agree! One shouldn't really compare the AW2 with the SSU and other multi sport watches, I'm just a bit desperate because of the SSU GPS performance and that's actually all I need for my running: Reliable GPS data / pace etc.! Most probably I'll make a step back and will get the Ambit3 Peak again, somehow I miss this device! But I'll wait for the next SW release for the SSU for sure, I really hope Suunto can fix this GPS inaccuracy issues.


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## Pegasus (Jan 23, 2008)

I think it's a bit offensive to Apple to compare the AW2 with the Spartan, one is a well thought out, well designed product that does what it's meant to and the other isn't unfortunately.

I own the Spartan by the way 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## martowl (Dec 31, 2010)

@Jaka83 after the Ginger runner review I stand corrected! That was hilarious....ok get the Spartan working Suunto! Hope you guys get another BIG update soon.


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## borgelkranz (Aug 17, 2016)

While waiting for the all rectifying software update of my dreams, I made another comparison. If this wrecks your nerves, tell me...
Today: SSU against the good old Ambit2R







(green is the reference, blue the Ambit2R and orange the SSU; link to MyGPSFiles)

Reported distances:

*Reference*: 8,48
*Ambit2R*: 8,3
*Stryd Summmit*: 8 (probably because of Autopause at traffic lights; it needs some time to reactivate)
*SSU*: 7,58 

Hope my math is right because this seems to be a deviation of 900(!) m on behalf of the SSU. But then again, if I can't do math, I at least am able to run on water...

During the whole run, instant pace was not usable at all. In fact is was off by almost 1min/km as compared to the Ambit. My friend and I ran next to each other and checked regularly...

Fortunately, christmas is coming...


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

borgelkranz said:


> Reported distances:
> 
> *Reference*: 8,48
> *Ambit2R*: 8,3
> ...


Good point that even though it seems to track for most of the course (apart from the major mess at the water it doesn't look bad) it's still not reporting accurate pace and other data


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## borgelkranz (Aug 17, 2016)

PTBC said:


> Good point that even though it seems to track for most of the course (apart from the major mess at the water it doesn't look bad) it's still not reporting accurate pace and other data


If I am not mistaken, instant pace is a function of the distance covered over time. And if the distance covered is not accurate, neither can be the pace. I want to encourage everyone to zoom in and take a closer look. According to the SSU I was everywhere but on the track for most of the time.

Take this example:








Or this:








Or this:








All of these screens are from the first 2km of the run. When I take a look at them I know where my 900m went...
And as a side note: the terrain is all but challenging.


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## buenosbias (Aug 18, 2016)

borgelkranz said:


> While waiting for the all rectifying software update of my dreams, I made another comparison. If this wrecks your nerves, tell me...


So strange. I just spent an hour comparing tracks from my A3P and my SSU. Same routes, varying conditions, etc,. etc. My SSU performs absolutely OK. As others here have noted, the SSU seems to record less points than the A3. But precisionwise, it is not at all much behind. Some tracks from my SSU even look better than the corresponding ones from my A3P. I just don't see the anomalies you guys post here. At least not since the last software update. Very rarely, the SSU still visibly drifts off, but only to catch itself soon after.


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## oli70 (Sep 4, 2016)

buenosbias said:


> So strange. I just spent an hour comparing tracks from my A3P and my SSU. Same routes, varying conditions, etc,. etc. My SSU performs absolutely OK. As others here have noted, the SSU seems to record less points than the A3. But precisionwise, it is not at all much behind. Some tracks from my SSU even look better than the corresponding ones from my A3P. I just don't see the anomalies you guys post here. At least not since the last software update. Very rarely, the SSU still visibly drifts off, but only to catch itself soon after.


same here with my SSU...


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## borgelkranz (Aug 17, 2016)

buenosbias said:


> So strange. I just spent an hour comparing tracks from my A3P and my SSU. Same routes, varying conditions, etc,. etc. My SSU performs absolutely OK. As others here have noted, the SSU seems to record less points than the A3. But precisionwise, it is not at all much behind. Some tracks from my SSU even look better than the corresponding ones from my A3P. I just don't see the anomalies you guys post here. At least not since the last software update. Very rarely, the SSU still visibly drifts off, but only to catch itself soon after.


Good for you! I think I will force a firmware update before the next run, regardless of whether we see an update or not. It's software after all. Maybe something went wrong during update...

But as I said earlier, it's the varying performance that makes me crazy. The watch clearly can record good tracks (I posted a very good one earlier). But sometimes it simply doesn't. And from a user's perspective I cannot figure out why. And that makes me feel like I bought a product that is broken. And this feeling seems to be the gist of the threads in this forum...


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## marcomueller (Aug 18, 2016)

buenosbias said:


> So strange. I just spent an hour comparing tracks from my A3P and my SSU. Same routes, varying conditions, etc,. etc. My SSU performs absolutely OK. As others here have noted, the SSU seems to record less points than the A3. But precisionwise, it is not at all much behind. Some tracks from my SSU even look better than the corresponding ones from my A3P. I just don't see the anomalies you guys post here. At least not since the last software update. Very rarely, the SSU still visibly drifts off, but only to catch itself soon after.


My GPS (SSU G2) accurary has been a catastrophe since the last software update. Four of five workouts are completely adjacent. That's why I used the Suunto customer service yesterday. They told me:"No update for this week". They can't tell me exactly when the next is released. They seem to work on GPS updates too. When this update is published, they don't even know because there are difficulties in programming. It's really annoying.


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## Hecke (Jun 7, 2016)

I'm with borgelkranz and marcomueller on this. 
A run where the tracks of my Ambit3R and SSU don't deviate further than 20m is a very rare exception. And 25% of all runs the SSU does something completely crazy. 
And yes, I also see current pace way off due to the bad GPS accuracy.

Re the christmas reference:
Do you think we get an update at dec24? That would make me happier than my kids that day ;-)


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## Jaka83 (Aug 1, 2016)

Hecke said:


> Re the christmas reference:
> Do you think we get an update at dec24? That would make me happier than my kids that day ;-)


Only to be disappointed when you find out the only updates are:
- Transfer training plans to Suunto Spartan and follow your progress
- Graphs for heart rate, speed and altitude
- New ways to import your training data to Suunto Movescount from other sports services

Which is pretty much the features Suunto should be working on AFTER they sort out the basic functionality.


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## borgelkranz (Aug 17, 2016)

> Re the christmas reference:
> Do you think we get an update at dec24? That would make me happier than my kids that day ;-)


During this time of the year I don't feel like an idiot when thinking about my wishes...
There's this German proverb: "Aber es ist ja bald Weihnachten..." that goes into the direction that hope never dies...

But I certainly don't want to install software at Christmas eve. So please Suunto...

Sent from mTalk


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## BobMiles (Sep 4, 2016)

I was thinking about a Christmas update as well. Given there are some people who will find a Spartan under their tree, suunto might not want to ruin their Christmas... But then again, it's suunto. More likely they come up with an update next week that brings graphs and has a ton of new bugs that make the watch even more frustrating. 
I don't know who is developing there, but every single bit of the software seems immature and not thought through. 
If you code an activity graph, how could you hard code daily goals in there and tag it with a state that says, ready for the customer. 
It seems that they have a horrid programming style, otherwise the whole watch would be way more customizable. And features wouldn't take that long.


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

BobMiles said:


> I was thinking about a Christmas update as well. Given there are some people who will find a Spartan under their tree, suunto might not want to ruin their Christmas... But then again, it's suunto. More likely they come up with an update next week that brings graphs and has a ton of new bugs that make the watch even more frustrating.
> I don't know who is developing there, but every single bit of the software seems immature and not thought through.
> If you code an activity graph, how could you hard code daily goals in there and tag it with a state that says, ready for the customer.
> It seems that they have a horrid programming style, otherwise the whole watch would be way more customizable. And features wouldn't take that long.


I'd say that's poor requirements, developer will code what they are asked for, if the spec is 'target=10,000' then you get what Spartan has....if the spec was 'default target of 10,000 that is adjustable [be by the user] or [some auto adjustment based on trend] etc.' then you would have what you suggest.
Possibly a developer might say there is a problem with the spec, but having a variable target isn't complicated*, the extra time is in the UI for changing it or code to make it responsive based on trend and there may be a time constraint as to why they didn't do it.

As for Xmas release of updates, that should be a no, you aim for mid week as it means you have staff available to deal with issues from the rollout, avoiding Monday/Tueday means statutory holidays aren't usually a problem (often Mondays) or people taking long weekends and gives a couple of days at the start of the week for final tweaking etc. You may make an exception if Xmas sales are big and you know you are going to have a lot of new users and want the fix in before then and there's no other time. In this case if Suunto had a dead certain GPS fix it may make sense to release it so that Xmas new owners would update straight away, though I can't see that happening (or big Xmas sales). Doing a release on a Friday before a long weekend is usually not a good idea (unless you need 3 days to complete the update in which case it's the perfect time).

*Assume any even barely sensible developer codes the target as a variable (which is then declared as a value of 10,000) so altering the method of calculating/ascertaining the target doesn't mean changing the display code etc. rather than hard coding 10,000 into the code for displaying the progress etc.


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## mercuir0 (Mar 24, 2015)

looks like a basic implementation of sport mode customization is coming sooner than i thought... today's short update apparently was to some extent to implement the first version of it.... if your firmware version is above some value you can add a new sport mode with three screens (yes, no way to customize this...). the first one a four field, the second a five field and the last one a laps screen... just a small step towards implementing what should have been there from the beginning... but still no gps update in the firmware, pretty annoying...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PTBC (Aug 5, 2016)

mercuir0 said:


> looks like a basic implementation of sport mode customization is coming sooner than i thought... today's short update apparently was to some extent to implement the first version of it.... if your firmware version is above some value you can add a new sport mode with three screens (yes, no way to customize this...). the first one a four field, the second a five field and the last one a laps screen... just a small step towards implementing what should have been there from the beginning... but still no gps update in the firmware, pretty annoying...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Mention was made of bi-weekly beta's so it sound like there has been 3 or 4 since the last official update, at some point it makes sense to issue an incremental update for tested features, like the graphs that have been mentioned, in order to show progress and to avoid having a large update that is difficult to troubleshoot if there are problems. Adding to the beta incrementally then rolling up all the changes and applying at once needs additional testing as conflicts and dependency issues can arise that were not present when the incremental change was done.
I understand the temptation of holding off until you have a GPS fix as that and the data jamming are the two most critical bugs, but at some point if you don't have something in the works and a reasonable date for the critical fixes you have to release some of the other stuff; right now Suunto give the impression of just lurching around rather than managing the situation


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## eeun (May 31, 2012)

I've worked for several software companies and have been involved as a beta tester of gps/fitness units (not Suunto) and generally what happens is bugs are reported by users (or testers) on general release firmware/software. These are assessed for impact/importance after being replicated by the engineers. If they can't replicate the issue they can't fix it. 

The bug is then prioritised and the important ones resolved. A new alpha software release then gets tested internally and if it looks good in goes out to beta testers who test ALL functionality to hopefully confirm that the bug is fixed and nothing else is broken that was working. Remember no software is bug free nor can you prove the absence of bugs but you can prove you have fixed them. 

Finally the beta release goes GA and is pushed to users. This cycle can be hours, days or weeks for beta testing. GA releases will be ad hoc or scheduled depending on the severity/impact of a bug and whether new features are being added.


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