# My german watch journey and Junghans Max Bill Chronoscope



## Shoefish8

Hello fellow uhr-fantasts!

Todays topic is the seemingly timeless, eye-catching piece: Junghans Max Bill Chronoscope. But first, I want to give a short presentation of who I am and what I'm doing here, so you can better understand my situation. If you wish to just partake in the direct questions at hand, please skip the following paragraphs. Readers be warned that the following text is somewhat of a ramble, an attempt to confirm the result of my studies and the decisions I have come to make through my peers here at WUS.

I very recently plunged head first into the wonderful world of watch gazing, not so surprisingly coinciding with my intended first purchase. My initial tastes and priorities were as you can imagine not too refined. I am a second year university student so my liquidity is not the best. The first piece I eyed, and almost ordered, was a Zeppelin 100 Jahren 7640 quartz chronograph. This idea thankfully got sidetracked by an initiated real thirst for an understanding of what is the world of watch collecting. Quartz has since then been disqualified from earning any whatsoever intimate time with my wrist.

Since then I have come to realize that I absolutely love simplistic, elegant and preferably a tad vintage designs. Categorically I defined my search as one for a casual dress watch that could be worn to class, but also inhibit the ability to fill in that missing hole in my dress outfits. Which, knowing myself, will be needed quite often seeing as I take any opportunity I can to dress up without embarrassing myself.

Bauhaus and most marine chronometers spring to mind. Stowa, Steinhart, Tourby, Archimedes, Dugena Premium, Fredrique Constante, Nomos and the likes. Even most redesigned vintage (1900-60) pocket watches from the big brands get my blood going, but sadly most of these pieces are far too big for my 7" wrists, and the genuine pieces are expensive and in my opinion too small. Further searching my aesthetical preferences, trying to hone in on what really appealed to me, it became clear that thin bezels and domed crystals were my thing. Obviously, when I stumbled upon the Max Bill Chronoscope, I fell in love!









The "stop-watch" chronograph pushers are in my opinion astounding. I know this is a borrowed concept, but they are for sure the only pushers I actually find appealing. It gives the piece an instrumental feel while simultaneously breaking off the dial flawlessly. Contributing a solid feel and look to an otherwise practically bezelless design. The domed dial, short angled lugs, needle indices, just everything fits the bill perfectly.

There are however some negative sides to the design. Even though I believe the domed acrylic crystal makes and breaks the piece, it is still a shame saphire can't accomplish the same effect. Also, I know this is going to sound unorthodox, but I would of liked to have seen what a darker (towards black) hand and indices profile would of looked like. I'm guessing it might not marry with the bezel as nicely however. Lastly, but not least, the lack of a glass backside dissapoints me. I want to be able to see that Valjoux 7750! If I were to venture a guess this has to do with the already thick profile of the movement.

Now to the twist, I'm not actually buying this watch now. I just can't afford it. Now you might say; "Shoefish8, why don't you have a go at the Junghans Max Bill Automatic, it's a beaut!", and I would have to agree. Even though they are exquisite, my general feeling is the 38mm size coupled with the very clean aesthetic is just too old fashioned of a watch for a 21 year old to be wearing. So instead, I am buying the closest thing I have found (disregarding the shameless quartz driven "homage" dugena dessau) that will satisfy my itch and lies within my current budget: Junkers 6060-2 (found in the attachments).

This piece is 40mm in diameter, 12mm thick, and sports a display back "showing off" a Miyota 9100 movement. The crystal is hesalite and the movement includes a power reserve. It retails for roughly €400. Around €150 less than the Junghans Automatic.

But don't fret! My plan is to buy this watch whilst I gather the funds necessary to grab me one of 'em white faced ladies. We've flirted far too long to forget about her just because the skanky cousin decided to put out. I will then be selling the Junkers, I can't have two almost identical pieces. "So what in the world are you actually asking for youngster, except what seems as a blatant attempt to steal our valuable time?". It's time for some real questions:

*QUESTIONS:*
--------------------------------------------------------

I have been searching the net for weeks now for second hand Junghans pieces. I understand they are rare. Currently I use watchrecon and check Ebay plus the local auction houses in Sweden. Is there a sales-channel I'm missing? I am willing to invest a lot of time, I just want to make sure I am using the relevant resources. Is there anything I should be weary of other than the accompanied common sense to online shopping?
Details regarding the thickness of the chronoscope vary, but from what I've gathered it seems to be 14mm. I know the 7750 is a bigger movement, but from what other people have written it doesn't seem to wear this big. People are claiming it to be dress appropriate. How can this be? Is it because of the domed crystal? Can the watch fit beneath a shirt cuff?
Many of you will probably object to my decision to buy the Junkers, and instead insist on me saving up for a Stowa or the likes. This is most probably not going to happen, as I've already asked for some slight christmas help to start this process. This will be my starter piece, to then be sold (for what I assume to be a semi-low resale value) unless someone here can provide me with information strongly against the movement or other relevant aspects. I have heard from german forums that the Miyota 9100 can rattle, but I took it with a grain of salt as it seemed to me to be swiss snobbery. Is there any truth to this?
Finally, if you wish to point me in the direction of a brand I might not have heard of, go ahead!

If you made it this far, thank you kindly for taking the time to read my highly unorganized thoughts. Any input will be much appreciated and taken into consideration, I have much respect for the vast amount of knowledge and good taste that circulate on these forums.
*
EDIT: I posted this here in the German watch forums for expertise on these models, but please direct me elsewhere if more appropriate. *

-------------------------------------


----------



## Outlawyer

_*"...when I stumbled upon the Max Bill Chronoscope, I fell in love!"

*_
+100


----------



## Ed.YANG

Hmm... I don't think the movement that's fitted in is really a 7750? More like SEIKO developed calibre J880.2?
Junghans Watches USA: 027/4600.00 Max Bill Chronoscope by Junghans


----------



## Shoefish8

Ed.YANG said:


> Hmm... I don't think the movement that's fitted in is really a 7750? More like SEIKO developed calibre J880.2?
> Junghans Watches USA: 027/4600.00 Max Bill Chronoscope by Junghans


Really? The threads I've read have stated it consists of a slightly modified 7750. I might be mistaken however. Here is a quick reference thread I found elsewhere: New arrival - Max Bill Chronoscope


----------



## CM HUNTER

Shoefish8 said:


> Really? The threads I've read have stated it consists of a slightly modified 7750. I might be mistaken however. Here is a quick reference thread I found elsewhere: New arrival - Max Bill Chronoscope


It is most definately a 7750 in the watch. Some people try to say in just about every thread pertaining to German watches they have an Asian movement or other Asian made part to it. Do a search of this particular watch. You will find tons of QUALIFIED information, and not some "just thrown out there" speculation. The Seiko/Junghans thing happened way back in 2006 with the Arthur Junghans line (doesn't even exist anymore) with the J830-automatic and J890-chronograph movements. But, again, the J880.2 is based on the Valjoux 7750.


----------



## Shoefish8

Excuse me for my pushiness, but this subject matter takes up way too much of my simple minds time to not warrant some nagging from my side. I really just want to know if there are places I can look for used German models that I haven't thought of. I need X more tabs to slow down my computer and keep me up for an hour longer each night. That is all I ask 

Is it worth it to register on German forums (for post count etc, which I'm guessing would require language skills) for private listings? Are there WUS-approved German auction houses? The reason I'm specifying Germany is because, seemingly logically, that's the country I've found to have the highest amount of used Junghans pieces earlier.

Lastly, should this query be elsewhere? I realize I sound impatient so thank you in advance for bearing with me.



CM HUNTER said:


> It is most definately a 7750 in the watch. Some people try to say in just about every thread pertaining to German watches they have an Asian movement or other Asian made part to it. Do a search of this particular watch. You will find tons of QUALIFIED information, and not some "just thrown out there" speculation. The Seiko/Junghans thing happened way back in 2006 with the Arthur Junghans line (doesn't even exist anymore) with the J830-automatic and J890-chronograph movements. But, again, the J880.2 is based on the Valjoux 7750.


Thanks for the confirmation, I was so sure it was a Valjoux I hadn't really done any real research, so his comment threw me off.


----------



## CM HUNTER

Shoefish8 said:


> Excuse me for my pushiness, but this subject matter takes up way too much of my simple minds time to not warrant some nagging from my side. I really just want to know if there are places I can look for used German models that I haven't thought of. I need X more tabs to slow down my computer and keep me up for an hour longer each night. That is all I ask
> 
> Is it worth it to register on German forums (for post count etc, which I'm guessing would require language skills) for private listings? Are there WUS-approved German auction houses? The reason I'm specifying Germany is because, seemingly logically, that's the country I've found to have the highest amount of used Junghans pieces earlier.
> 
> Lastly, should this query be elsewhere? I realize I sound impatient so thank you in advance for bearing with me.
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation, I was so sure it was a Valjoux I hadn't really done any real research, so his comment threw me off.


No problem. There are alot of people that just throw random comments out there, so again, doing your own research is VERY vital.

As far as trusted places to purchase past as well as current German watch models would be Chrono24 which is a sponsor on here. Like anything else though, investigate the particular seller that may have the watch you want. If they have a brick-and-mortar establishment, it would lend them more credibility. Good luck with your journey.


----------



## Kilovolt

I agree with CM: Chrono24 should be the right place where to look for a Chronoscope.

BTW: what exactly is a Max Bill Chronoscope? :-d


----------



## rationaltime

Kilovolt said:


> I agree with CM: Chrono24 should be the right place where to look for a Chronoscope.
> 
> BTW: what exactly is a Max Bill Chronoscope? :-d
> 
> View attachment 908249


For a size comparison perhaps you could take some photos
of that one next to the WW2 Regulateur. I also wouldn't
mind some in focus, close up photos of the Regulateur.
Perhaps that should start in a new thread.

Thanks,
rationaltime


----------



## watchma

Shoefish8 said:


> Lastly, but not least, the lack of a glass backside dissapoints me. I want to be able to see that Valjoux 7750!


So would I - it's VERY pretty inside it:


----------



## StufflerMike

The J880.2 is a modified ETA 7750.

The J 830 (automatic), J 890 (chronograph) ate those made by Seiko. I think I posted pics already in 2006.


----------



## Shoefish8

Some good replies and wonderful pictures people! I too would like to see a size comparison. The movement really does it for me, but I guess I'll have to get my fix from the exhibition caseback on my incoming Junkers. God, if there was one thing I could change about that watch it really would be the horrendous name. However war-affiliated the name may be, it's an association I would steer clear of if I were branding a lower-segment watch company.

I've started contemplating jumping at the chance to get a Max Bill automatic if one presents itself at a reasonable price. Used I could pretty much afford it alongside my Junkers and maybe keep whichever I like the most. My disinclination stems from not having a clue how it will fit my arm. Then again for each new piece I own will let me get closer to gaining a reputable status and thus easing the process of catch and release, which at the time seems like a difficult task with absolutely no sellers references on any platform whatsoever.

Anyways, here's a borrowed pic of two gorgeous German sisters posing side by side:









And some more chronos, this time with numbers:


----------



## jzpjzp

wow the chronoscope really is a nice watch! 

I can fully appreciate your interest in it, however cant help but think that for that price a stowa 1938 would be nicer !

just my own opinion of course


----------



## Kilovolt

rationaltime said:


> For a size comparison perhaps you could take some photos
> of that one next to the WW2 Regulateur. I also wouldn't
> mind some in focus, close up photos of the Regulateur.
> Perhaps that should start in a new thread.


I have decided to post here just the requested comparison picture while you can find more images in my existing Bomber thread.


----------



## brummyjon

You mention that you would prefer a 40mm watch to the 38mm Chronoscope. If I remember correctly, the Chronoscope IS 40mm (the Max Bill 3 hand Autos are 38mm, the handwinders 34.5mm). [EDIT: 34.2mm, apparently..]

In fact it was only the diameter and thickness that put me off this watch when I tried it on. (Oh, and the presence of a date, but that's a personal quirk of mine). I have the handwinder, by the way. And for what it's worth, ALL of the Max Bills wear much larger than their diameter would suggest, particularly the chrono.

These are nice watches, but I would recommend not making assumptions about size based upon quoted numbers (especially if they happen to be wrong).

As for the Junkers.... it's quite nice if you can't afford the Max Bill. But it's not the same.

Oh, and finally... one of the things that MAKES these watches so special is the beautiful domed acrylic crystals. There are plenty of watches out there for sapphire lovers, without them trying to apply pressure on manufacturers to stop using the acrylics that so many of us adore..... This is a vintage reissue; allow it to have some vintage look and feel.


----------



## CM HUNTER

jzpjzp said:


> wow the chronoscope really is a nice watch!
> 
> I can fully appreciate your interest in it, however cant help but think that for that price a stowa 1938 would be nicer !
> 
> just my own opinion of course


It's not nicer if the OP wants the particular Max Bill Bauhaus look that drew him to the watch in the first place. The Stowa is modeled after a pocket watch and looks nothing at all like the Junghans. The Stowa is a great watch and that's why I have one, but the OP wants that Bauhaus look that the 1938 just doesn't have.


----------



## Shoefish8

brummyjon said:


> You mention that you would prefer a 40mm watch to the 38mm Chronoscope. If I remember correctly, the Chronoscope IS 40mm (the Max Bill 3 hand Autos are 38mm, the handwinders 34.5mm). [EDIT: 34.2mm, apparently..]
> 
> In fact it was only the diameter and thickness that put me off this watch when I tried it on. (Oh, and the presence of a date, but that's a personal quirk of mine). I have the handwinder, by the way. And for what it's worth, ALL of the Max Bills wear much larger than their diameter would suggest, particularly the chrono.
> 
> These are nice watches, but I would recommend not making assumptions about size based upon quoted numbers (especially if they happen to be wrong).
> 
> As for the Junkers.... it's quite nice if you can't afford the Max Bill. But it's not the same.
> 
> Oh, and finally... one of the things that MAKES these watches so special is the beautiful domed acrylic crystals. There are plenty of watches out there for sapphire lovers, without them trying to apply pressure on manufacturers to stop using the acrylics that so many of us adore..... This is a vintage reissue; allow it to have some vintage look and feel.


Thanks for the reply! I believe everything you say is absolutely correct, and I do have far less hands on experience than I should when it comes to size. However I was in fact aware that the Chrono is 40mm, I was actually referring to the Max Bill automatic which is as you stated 38mm. Seeing as both the automatic and the Junkers are in almost the same price range the comparison seemed valid.

I've tried many different dimensions in regular boutiques, but as you said the dome quality of the Max Bill line does seem to have it's very own feel and aesthetic. This aspect of the watch is probably my favorite, as I've noticed that most vintage models catch my eye when I'm browsing ebay. This is also the biggest contributing factor as to why I'm purchasing the Junkers 6060-5:


----------



## Shoefish8

CM HUNTER said:


> It's not nicer if the OP wants the particular Max Bill Bauhaus look that drew him to the watch in the first place. The Stowa is modeled after a pocket watch and looks nothing at all like the Junghans. The Stowa is a great watch and that's why I have one, but the OP wants that Bauhaus look that the 1938 just doesn't have.


You are correct, the Bauhaus style really fits in with the way I want to look and portray myself. On the other hand, the Stowa 1938 AND the Marina are beautiful pieces of engineering I wouldn't mind owning alongside the Junghans...


----------



## brummyjon

A nice shot of that watch. That shows what I mean about acrylic crystals exactly. There is so much more interest in a face shrouded in one of these that a flat featureless non-reflective sapphire. I have heard it said on this forum that some feel a acrylic/hesalite crystal 'cheapens' a watch, and can be a 'deal breaker'. I feel exactly that way about sapphire crystals, on watches with a 'period' feel. My last two purchases both have Acrylics; I fully expect my next will too...

Enjoy the watch - I find that a purchase is more special when preceded by a long period of cogitation....


Shoefish8 said:


> Thanks for the reply! I believe everything you say is absolutely correct, and I do have far less hands on experience than I should when it comes to size. However I was in fact aware that the Chrono is 40mm, I was actually referring to the Max Bill automatic which is as you stated 38mm. Seeing as both the automatic and the Junkers are in almost the same price range the comparison seemed valid.
> 
> I've tried many different dimensions in regular boutiques, but as you said the dome quality of the Max Bill line does seem to have it's very own feel and aesthetic. This aspect of the watch is probably my favorite, as I've noticed that most vintage models catch my eye when I'm browsing ebay. This is also the biggest contributing factor as to why I'm purchasing the Junkers 6060-5:
> 
> View attachment 909595


----------



## jzpjzp

CM HUNTER said:


> It's not nicer if the OP wants the particular Max Bill Bauhaus look that drew him to the watch in the first place. The Stowa is modeled after a pocket watch and looks nothing at all like the Junghans. The Stowa is a great watch and that's why I have one, but the OP wants that Bauhaus look that the 1938 just doesn't have.


I wasnt at all trying to criticise the OP, i fully appreciate that the max bill is a gorgeous watch and would love to own one some day 

Nor was i trying to compare the 2 watches, i only brought the stowa up as the OP had originally mentioned the stowa so i was only expressing my opinion 

either way im sure we can all agree the max bill is one hell of a watch!

HAGWE


----------



## mpalmer

Very pretty indeed.


----------



## cleanup

OP's debacle is precisely the same thing I'm going through right now. Do I get the Junkers 6060-2 (which I love) immediately, or do I wait for the availability of a good deal on a Max Bill Chronoscope?

I'm also torn between the Max Bill version (with the circular stopwatch pushers) and the Meister version, which has a seconds subdial and non-circular pushers, but it DOES have a display caseback and a similar domed crystal (although from photos it doesn't seem to have quite the same bezel-to-bezel impact as the Max Bill version).

Honestly, I'm torn.

I recently got interested in domed plexiglass crystals; I love the vintage aesthetic. Another watch on my wishlist is the Seagull 1963 Reissue; the history behind it and its vintage look just screams at me. It's certainly no Bauhaus design, but its old-time charm is a little too hard to ignore.

For the OP:
Junghans Max Bill Chronoscope Automatic 40mm for C$.1,583 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24

Meister:









Seagull 1963 (far more attainable at the moment):


----------



## sys

If you love the Chronoscope you shouldn't settle for the Junkers. It is similar enough to remind you that it's not the watch you actually want and you will lose money on the resale. Why don't you buy something with a different look for your starter watch and save up to buy the Chronoscope later? That way you will eventually have two watches that you love and can wear for different occasions instead of one and money down the drain.

Also, make sure you see the Chronoscope in person. I was not a fan of the lume dots, which looked cheap to me, nor the large size. It is a classically-styled dress watch and calls for no lume and a classic dimension. My opinion of course.


----------



## brummyjon

I love the lume dots on my Max Bill. Very understated in my opinion, and perfectly executed. I tend to agree about the size of the Chronoscope though.


----------



## DrGoldin

sys said:


> If you love the Chronoscope you shouldn't settle for the Junkers. It is similar enough to remind you that it's not the watch you actually want and you will lose money on the resale.


Very, very good advice.


----------



## MrDsheel

Looks great! Since you own this watch, i would like to ask whether the dial is white in color or cream/beige in color? ..as i have come across pics of both shades on the net.


----------



## sduford

sys said:


> Also, make sure you see the Chronoscope in person. I was not a fan of the lume dots, which looked cheap to me, nor the large size. It is a classically-styled dress watch and calls for no lume and a classic dimension. My opinion of course.


To me a chrono is a sport watch, not a dress watch. Sure, this one is dressier, but it is still a sporty watch and I think a chrono with small registers needs to be at least 38mm.


----------



## wilson_smyth

Watch buying decisions 101:

1. Dont use the price as the main deciding factor. Its a secondary concern. Youre spending a lot of money on an antiquated piece of very beautiful jewelry ( not an insult, i do it too!). So to base the decision on money makes the whole idea null and void anyway!

2. When deciding between two watches, especially similar watches think "if i buy this one, will i look at it and always wish it was the other one?". 
If the answer to this is yes, then dont settle, be patient, save and buy the one you want.

You will "save" money in the long run. otherwise you just buy the cheaper one, dont enjoy it like you should, sell it on at a loss, take longer than ever to get the one you want.

3. Money. Only after you decide what you want, you then decide if its obtainable. if you can be patient, save for a few months/years and then buy it without feeling guilty and without sending yourself to financial ruin, then go for it.


----------



## blowfish89

wilson_smyth said:


> Watch buying decisions 101:
> 
> 1. Dont use the price as the main deciding factor. Its a secondary concern. Youre spending a lot of money on an antiquated piece of very beautiful jewelry ( not an insult, i do it too!). So to base the decision on money makes the whole idea null and void anyway!
> 
> 2. When deciding between two watches, especially similar watches think "if i buy this one, will i look at it and always wish it was the other one?".
> If the answer to this is yes, then dont settle, be patient, save and buy the one you want.
> 
> You will "save" money in the long run. otherwise you just buy the cheaper one, dont enjoy it like you should, sell it on at a loss, take longer than ever to get the one you want.
> 
> 3. Money. Only after you decide what you want, you then decide if its obtainable. if you can be patient, save for a few months/years and then buy it without feeling guilty and without sending yourself to financial ruin, then go for it.


I gotta put some of that in my signature.


----------

