# How long can a spring drive watch last?



## mho_london

Dear all,

I am relatively new to GS and have become inspired by the brand and it's spring drive mechanism. I am considering getting one. Im however looking for a watch which, if serviced regularly, can last a lifetime and more as I would like to pass it down to my children. Will a spring drive watch last that long? I'm concerned that the IC and the coils might fail over a long space of time. Also would a watch like a SBGE201 survive ski trips? I'm again concerned that in the sub zero temps the circuit board might fail with irreversible damage! 

Would really like to hear your comments on this.


Michael


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## trueairspeed

@ Michael:

Every watch can fail over long periods of time. That’s what the service is for. Properly serviced your Grand Seiko will last forever (or as long, as parts are available like e.g. appears the trouble nowadays with the Lemania 5100 movement).

Do you wear the Grand Seiko on top of your clothing during skiing? If not, you shouldn’t need to worry about subzero temperatures.


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## Laso1

The Spring Drive movements have only been on the market Since 2005.................Only time will tell. So far my 2-2005 models are doing fine.


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## T1meout

I would strongly advise aganst wearing any watch unless you are:
a. an exceptional skier.
b. you are wearing a G-Shock or a cheap beater.
It may take up to 20 or 30 years, but you can be cerain that unless properly maintained, the electronic components will eventually fail.


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## Laso1

12 years old and running fine.


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## mho_london

T1meout said:


> I would strongly advise aganst wearing any watch unless you are:
> a. an exceptional skier.
> b. you are wearing a G-Shock or a cheap beater.
> It may take up to 20 or 30 years, but you can be cerain that unless properly maintained, the electronic components will eventually fail.


The Bremont Martin Baker II sounds like a watch that can stand the test of a snow holiday. 'Tested beyond endurance'.

I'm not sure the IC in a GS spring drive could last for generations even if we'll serviced. I guess maybe it will just be accuracy that will be sacrificed.


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## Tom-HK

T1meout said:


> It may take up to 20 or 30 years, but you can be cerain that unless properly maintained, the electronic components will eventually fail.


I have watches with electronic components that are still going strong after more than 40 years. And they were built with somewhat 'experimental' micro-electronics. Spring Drives not only have far fewer electronic components than 40-year-old quartz watches but they also have the benefits of advanced modern materials, decades of design experience, higher production standards and better QC. I would be frankly amazed if the electronic components of a Spring Drive (even one that hadn't seen much servicing) failed within 30 years.


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## Alysandir

mho_london said:


> The Bremont Martin Baker II sounds like a watch that can stand the test of a snow holiday. 'Tested beyond endurance'.
> 
> I'm not sure the IC in a GS spring drive could last for generations even if we'll serviced. I guess maybe it will just be accuracy that will be sacrificed.


While the Bremont MB line is their anti-shock collection, any mechanical watch is subject to shock; some just suffer less deviation than others. Hence his suggestion of a G-SHOCK or a watch you don't care about.

The thing to understand about Spring Drive is that it is a mechanical watch in every way except one: the escapement in a traditional mechanical has been replaced by the flywheel assembly, which includes the coils and the tri-synchro regulator (TSR). And the reason I make this point is to drive home the fact that the Spring Drive can be completely disassembled, just like a mechanical, including all elements of the flywheel assembly. The coils go bad? They get replaced. The TSR goes bad? Replaced. Don't think of Spring Drive like a monolithic quartz movement where if the IC goes, it's time to trash the watch. Grand Seiko goes on tours where they visit ADs and disassemble & reassemble a Spring Drive right in front of you; I've seen it first-hand and it's quite interesting.

Regards,
Alysandir


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## Alysandir

Here's a tour video from Grand Seiko's visit to Little Treasury in Gambrills, Maryland.






Regards,
Alysandir


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## Toothbras

7 minutes. 10 if he's thinking about an Invicta Russian Diver


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## Tseg

There is an argument that the stresses to the mechanical components of a Spring Drive are less than that of an automatic watch. We also know Grand Seiko boasts a 50 year service interval for their quartz watches. Other than pressure testing a watch every year or so, I would think it reasonable to assume a Spring Drive can go 15-20 years before parts wear enough to affect time keeping. To put in perspective, I believe a typical quality mechanical watch can go 10 years before parts wear accelerates. I also believe in not servicing a watch until time keeping is visibly affected vs. the norm for that watch. Other than seal failure, catastrophic watch failures just don't occur from worn parts... and replacement of key worn parts generally is included in the service costs. Water in a watch and watch impact are the typical causes for exorbitant service costs. 

I've seen service centers of quality watch brands make nearly destroyed watches like new again. As long as parts are available just about any watch, no matter the service interval, can be made like new again. Seals and water are the issue. I've been eying up a 10 Bar pressure tester... but at $1250 have not yet brought myself to pull the trigger.


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## mho_london

Thanks for all the opinions, it is an interesting topic indeed and I am still very keen on a GS. Just need to find out about GS servicing options in UK now.


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## Alysandir

mho_london said:


> Thanks for all the opinions, it is an interesting topic indeed and I am still very keen on a GS. Just need to find out about GS servicing options in UK now.


That could be interesting. To the best of my knowledge, it would probably have to go to the Grand Seiko service center in New Jersey, USA. However, in order to have Zaratsu polishing done, my understanding is that it has to go all the way back to Japan. That is one of the admitted negatives of Grand Seiko is that they are still branching out internationally and do not have infrastructure in place everywhere.

Regards,
Alysandir


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## mpalmer

My guess is that the watch will last longer than you would care to wear it. The lion's share of watches cease to be useful to their owner, not because they are no longer serviceable, but because the value and desirability of the watch no longer exceeds the cost of servicing. If you want a watch that will last for many decades, your best bet is to invest in a high end watch that will continue to be worthy of paying the service costs as the piece ages. While a watch is never a good investment in terms of making money, sometimes spending more on a watch can help with enhancing longevity.


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## Tom-HK

mpalmer said:


> My guess is that the watch will last longer than you would care to wear it. The lion's share of watches cease to be useful to their owner, not because they are no longer serviceable, but because the value and desirability of the watch no longer exceeds the cost of servicing. If you want a watch that will last for many decades, your best bet is to invest in a high end watch that will continue to be worthy of paying the service costs as the piece ages. While a watch is never a good investment in terms of making money, sometimes spending more on a watch can help with enhancing longevity.


For many people, a Grand Seiko _is_ a 'high end' watch and in buying one they are parting with a fairly large chunk of money with every expectation that, with proper care and servicing, these watches will indeed be treasures that will last for generations. I know I paid through the roof to get an old Omega serviced, recently, but I was prepared to do it for a number of reasons and I truly believe I will have the same willingness to pay increased service costs on my GS when they get a bit long in the tooth.

I think your basic point may be quite correct, but I'm not sure you will find a lot of people agreeing with you (on this forum, at least) that Grand Seiko is not 'high end'enough to keep on maintaining into the future.


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## Laso1

I would like to say that my experience with low end Seikos has been very good. I have a 32 year old Seiko quartz dive watch that I bought new. It was a daily wear for many years and never babied like my Grand Seikos are and up until recently when I wanted to "clean it up" did I have to do anything except replace batteries. I finaly replaced the crystal, bezel insert and replaced the gaskets and O rings and had the date wheel worked on (it drooped). Judging from what I have seen of the engineering and craftsmanship that goes into a GS, I would find it hard to believe it would not be of such quality to be an heirloom watch in years to come.


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## mpalmer

Tom-HK said:


> For many people, a Grand Seiko _is_ a 'high end' watch and in buying one they are parting with a fairly large chunk of money with every expectation that, with proper care and servicing, these watches will indeed be treasures that will last for generations. I know I paid through the roof to get an old Omega serviced, recently, but I was prepared to do it for a number of reasons and I truly believe I will have the same willingness to pay increased service costs on my GS when they get a bit long in the tooth.
> 
> I think your basic point may be quite correct, but I'm not sure you will find a lot of people agreeing with you (on this forum, at least) that Grand Seiko is not 'high end'enough to keep on maintaining into the future.


I think there is no question that Grand Seikos can be serviced and kept for generations. The real question is how many/which owners will care to do so. The watches will certainly be serviceable long into the future; I think the real question is how long into the 'future' owners will elect to pay to service them. Will a Grand Seiko be practical to keep servicing for the rest of your liftime? Certainly, as long as you still like the look of it in 20 or 30 or 40 years more than your other options. Realistically, in 40 years, a new 1k watch in today's money might well be look nicer than a 40 year old Grand Seiko to many non WIS and might make the servicing cost more questionable, but then again not to others (i.e. WIS vintage collectors), so this is clearly subjective and it depends on who owns the watch down the line. Will your children or grand children or whomever they have given/sold the watch to want to service the watch 50+ years from now? It is hard to say. My guess is it may depend largely on sentimental value or on the cash value of the watch. I still think that if you really want to improve the chances a watch will still be serviced by the owner for the very long term, the best bet is significant cash value, i.e. a 30, 40, or 50 year old Patek will likely still be serviced because it is still in the financial interest of the owner to do so, irrespective of their WIS/non-WIS status, because of the value of the watch.

Ultimately, I don't worry about ownership beyond my own, I just wear watches. Nothing lasts forever, and I don't see any need to convince myself my watches will be worn decades after I am not around to enjoy them. If my children/grandchildren or whomever they gift or sell them to enjoy them enough they will be worn, if not, they will end up in a box or at a flea market. What I have become more aware of and consider much more now is the long term practicality of servicing the watches I buy during my ownership of the watches. This is why I have reduced the number of watches that I own and will likely keep the number relatively small, and have/will in the future gravitate toward a smaller number of higher end watches. For me, less watches mean lower servicing costs, less inefficiency, and moving toward higher end watches will lead to less/slowed acquisitions, less flipping, and longer term practical ownership of my watches (I'll be less likely to feel the need to flip them for something else or question if I should stop servicing them when they get older).

If one really is concerned about having to own a watch that is likely to be worn by someone many decades from now, I think that the long term liklihood of a high cash value of the watch is probably going to be the best predictor of voluntary servicing over the very long haul, and this is likely to be at least somewhat influenced by the current cost of the watch.


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## T1meout

I tend to agree with mpalmer.

Another factor which will influence whether an heirloom watch will be maintained/ kept depends on your caracther as an individual and how you were perceived by the person whom inherits the watch.


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## ten13th

mho_london said:


> Dear all,
> 
> I am relatively new to GS and have become inspired by the brand and it's spring drive mechanism. I am considering getting one. Im however looking for a watch which, if serviced regularly, can last a lifetime and more as I would like to pass it down to my children. Will a spring drive watch last that long? I'm concerned that the IC and the coils might fail over a long space of time. Also would a watch like a SBGE201 survive ski trips? I'm again concerned that in the sub zero temps the circuit board might fail with irreversible damage!
> 
> Would really like to hear your comments on this.
> 
> Michael


Black diamond, heliski, check. 

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ten13th

T1meout said:


> I would strongly advise aganst wearing any watch unless you are:
> a. an exceptional skier.
> b. you are wearing a G-Shock or a cheap beater.
> It may take up to 20 or 30 years, but you can be cerain that unless properly maintained, the electronic components will eventually fail.


Well. I would not consider myself an exceptional skier. But base on your definition, I'm beyond exceptional. Maybe Master Yoda class.





































In fact I wear my watches for every activity I partake, other than sleeping and showering.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## T1meout

Rescue helicopter, cast, crutches, painkillers, check.


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## mho_london

ten13th said:


> In fact I wear my watches for every activity I partake, other than sleeping and showering.


Why not to sleep? I sleep with my watch.


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## Zinzan

ten13th said:


> In fact I wear my watches for every activity I partake, other than sleeping and showering.





mho_london said:


> Why not to sleep? I sleep with my watch.


Might be a comfort thing, but maybe something to do with how hard it is to refinish titanium?

Not sure, but this is what someone said in another recent thread. ;-)



in2zion said:


> I've tried to refinish titanium using 3M polishing paper cloth. Failed. It is really hard to refinish. If you get scratches on it...just enjoy the watch. BTW, this is the reason I stay awake from titanium watches.


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## nielss

I doubt my children will want my watches after I die, although I haven't asked them. Neither of them wears a watch currently--they're millennials. Regardless, they can sell them or wear them, it's of no significance to me.


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## Ticonderoga

Last vid was good. Here is another.

Spring Drive Function Movie

Frictionless escapement. Yes, this thing will last longer than a quartz. I learned something new today.


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## manofrolex

mpalmer said:


> I think there is no question that Grand Seikos can be serviced and kept for generations. The real question is how many/which owners will care to do so. The watches will certainly be serviceable long into the future; I think the real question is how long into the 'future' owners will elect to pay to service them. Will a Grand Seiko be practical to keep servicing for the rest of your liftime? Certainly, as long as you still like the look of it in 20 or 30 or 40 years more than your other options. Realistically, in 40 years, a new 1k watch in today's money might well be look nicer than a 40 year old Grand Seiko to many non WIS and might make the servicing cost more questionable, but then again not to others (i.e. WIS vintage collectors), so this is clearly subjective and it depends on who owns the watch down the line. Will your children or grand children or whomever they have given/sold the watch to want to service the watch 50+ years from now? It is hard to say. My guess is it may depend largely on sentimental value or on the cash value of the watch. I still think that if you really want to improve the chances a watch will still be serviced by the owner for the very long term, the best bet is significant cash value, i.e. a 30, 40, or 50 year old Patek will likely still be serviced because it is still in the financial interest of the owner to do so, irrespective of their WIS/non-WIS status, because of the value of the watch.
> 
> Ultimately, I don't worry about ownership beyond my own, I just wear watches. Nothing lasts forever, and I don't see any need to convince myself my watches will be worn decades after I am not around to enjoy them. If my children/grandchildren or whomever they gift or sell them to enjoy them enough they will be worn, if not, they will end up in a box or at a flea market. What I have become more aware of and consider much more now is the long term practicality of servicing the watches I buy during my ownership of the watches. This is why I have reduced the number of watches that I own and will likely keep the number relatively small, and have/will in the future gravitate toward a smaller number of higher end watches. For me, less watches mean lower servicing costs, less inefficiency, and moving toward higher end watches will lead to less/slowed acquisitions, less flipping, and longer term practical ownership of my watches (I'll be less likely to feel the need to flip them for something else or question if I should stop servicing them when they get older).
> 
> If one really is concerned about having to own a watch that is likely to be worn by someone many decades from now, I think that the long term liklihood of a high cash value of the watch is probably going to be the best predictor of voluntary servicing over the very long haul, and this is likely to be at least somewhat influenced by the current cost of the watch.


I think this is very fair but again some of the current vintage collector pieces going for big bucks not all started as very expensive pieces. So who knows a reasonable purchase today could turn out to be the next best thing since sliced bread for collectors who will want to have the thing serviced.
But agree that going up market might give one better odds for longevity. However, if one owns a Patek and gifts it to his kids they might get frightened by the cost of a service.
Not going to lie I would love my kids to wear my watches just for the simple reason they might remember their old man a bit every day on the wrist.
Nothing last forever and it is pointless to get to stop it but in the meantime I will try to enjoy the pieces I acquire

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Armstrong31

Tseg said:


> There is an argument that the stresses to the mechanical components of a Spring Drive are less than that of an automatic watch. We also know Grand Seiko boasts a 50 year service interval for their quartz watches. Other than pressure testing a watch every year or so, I would think it reasonable to assume a Spring Drive can go 15-20 years before parts wear enough to affect time keeping. To put in perspective, I believe a typical quality mechanical watch can go 10 years before parts wear accelerates. I also believe in not servicing a watch until time keeping is visibly affected vs. the norm for that watch. Other than seal failure, catastrop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hic watch failures just don't occur from worn parts... and replacement of key worn parts generally is included in the service costs. Water in a watch and watch impact are the typical causes for exorbitant service costs.
> 
> I've seen service centers of quality watch brands make nearly destroyed watches like new again. As long as parts are available just about any watch, no matter the service interval, can be made like new again. Seals and water are the issue. I've been eying up a 10 Bar pressure tester... but at $1250 have not yet brought myself to pull the trigger.


Thank you. I was only thinking GS Quartz, because service costs are just not my thing. However, with this new thinking that a SD could go decades without showing significant performance issues enlivens my appetite to move beyond quartz. I am now seriously eyeing the new SBGA373G. I saw it at an AD and I think she is the one. Lol


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## dopuletz76

Send it to the workshop,watchmaker will let you know


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## BarracksSi

Ticonderoga said:


> Last vid was good. Here is another.
> 
> Spring Drive Function Movie
> 
> Frictionless escapement. Yes, this thing will last longer than a quartz. I learned something new today.


Well, frictionless apart from all the pivots of the geartrain, including the tri-syncro rotor, plus the winding mechanism and the mainspring barrel...


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## GMT-man

mho_london said:


> Also would a watch like a SBGE201 survive ski trips?


If the watch is worn normally on the wrist, the watch temperature will be normal, at least +25C. It will be also covered with fairly thick clothing protecting it from any shocks and such. Thus there is nothing to worry about.

Besides the electronics actually like cold, they are not going to die on you, even if you left the watch on the porch at the chalet for some reason.


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## Tonhao

If properly built electronic watch components can last just as long if not longer than metal parts. Thousands of Accutrons still survive today and conform to factory specs, and Accutrons weren’t nearly as luxurious as the Spring Drive, where no expenses were spared.


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