# crazy question, are there watch making kits for beginners?



## ghosthunter242

i love to tinker. i love it to a fault. but i also like to repair and create.

i loved all my science and electronic kits as a kid and the world is lucky i did not have access to any of the heathkits because i probably would have contacted mir or something.

anyways, i was on the getat site and saw that you could buy individual parts. has anyone ever done that and assembled it themselves? how did it turn out? any other off the shelf kind of experiences?

but the main question is there complete kits from start to finish? i know about the paper clock book and instructions to make a wooden grandfather clock, but i am talking every little part to a watch that you would need ready to assemble?

i was in contact with bulova and was trying to buy all the parts to a 214h and they told me no. so in the 50's and 60's world of heathkits and the like were there ever kits like this?

there was a hamilton(i think) video linked somewhere on this site that showed a huge wooden watchwork laid out and this totally made me either want a giant watch like that or to make one from scratch.

i do not want to have to mill and lathe and need machinery, just assemble..
any thoughts?

i have fully disassembled a pocketwatch and besides the broken hairspring it worked when i was done.
thinking a different direction.
thanks all!


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## markrino

I believe there must be.


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## halfapie

the time zone school has 3 kits, one for each level. It comes with a working watch, that you disassemble and then re-assemble into a working watch.

I am planning to enroll in this class myself...

Time Zone Tool Shop


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## mars-red

If you are looking for a kit that contains all the parts you need to build a wrist or pocket watch movement, then I've never heard of such a thing (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, though). But if you want a kit with a completely assembled movement and all the parts necessary to turn it into a watch (case, crown, dial, hands, spacer ring (where applicable) and strap) then that's a different story. A few sites (getat, helenarou, otto frei, etc) sell all the components, you could call them and have them put together an order making up the "kit".

Good luck, and let us know if you find what you're looking for!


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## ghosthunter242

i could just disassemble any watch i already own. i am thinking along the lines of a complete build from the bottom up.
i was teetering on the idea of the getat but want to go way more into it than that.

imagine the sense of accomplishment if someone asks who made your watch and you can proudly say,"i did."

each gear and spring piece by piece into the plates to make a movement.

maybe i will try to get a hold (cue laugh track) of some current watch manufacturers and see if that is even possible. doubtful though.


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## Somewhere else

Such kits exist and they are very successful here in Japan. A friend of mine up in boondocks (Yamagata) has been making assemble it yourself kits for quite a while. I think he's gone through five or six generations of different hand winding watches now . You have to be able to read Japanese to understand the instructions, how.


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## ghosthunter242

if you ever get a chance, could you possibly find out the maker of those kits? it sounds like others might be mildly interested in the same thing. how did your friend's watches turn out? that is awesome, thanks for the info and glimmer of hope.
mark



Somewhere else said:


> Such kits exist and they are very successful here in Japan. A friend of mine up in boondocks (Yamagata) has been making assemble it yourself kits for quite a while. I think he's gone through five or six generations of different hand winding watches now . You have to be able to read Japanese to understand the instructions, how.


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## JohnInMinnesota

I can't recommend this book since I haven't read it yet, but I do like to get ideas from books like this Amazon.com: Beginner Watchmaking: How to Build Your Very First Watch (Volume 1) (9781456451653): Tim A Swike: Books.

Regardless of which path you take, I believe in the end you will be attracted to and maybe even required to either get the tools or have someone who has the tools do the work. My own desire to create a watch lead me down the path of purchasing a watchmaker's course (from the Chicago school of watchmaking) and tools like a staking kit, and all the basics. I will get a lathe too eventually. I have a small armature lathe that my father used to use to turn armatures, so I am going to make use of that until I need to get something more. There is a couple threads here of people actually creating their own watch from scratch, modeling existing movements. I personally wouldn't have a desire to go to this level, but do enjoy saying "I made it". There are times when you must, out of either necessity or expedience, make your own parts in watchmaking, but installing a movement into a case with your own choice of both case and movement, along with your choice of hands and a strap qualifies you to say "I built it myself" in my opinion. It's up to you to determine what level of "I built it myself" you want to go to, and in today's world of boundary-less component availability, you can pretty much go to any length easily.

I started out with the goal of fixing a pocket watch I had from my father's collection of mostly broken watches. That has presented many obstacles that I am still working on... My first wrist watch build was a 7750 movement from Ofrei, which I soon realized was going to sit for a time while I learned the basic skills necessary to work with that complication. Next, I bought a 6498, which I broke a part on and have been waiting for a month to get everything together to build it. In the meantime, I saw a skeleton 6497 movement on Ebay that I decided was too awesome not to use, so I bought that and used a case from the other project. It's all fun, and I am learning and building my skillset with each new challenge.

I love hobbies that I can never master. Playing the guitar, coaching people, becoming a watchmaker... all require a depth of knowledge that must be obtained from previous generations and practiced in order to become better. There are plateaus with each and persistence and patience are key.

Good luck! Keep posting your progress!
John

Here's a picture of my first watch... I made it myself ;-)


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## Philip Bayer

Perhaps not what you are looking for, but Bergeon distributes a few "watch kits," that are assemble yourself watches using ETA movements.


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## ghosthunter242

nice skeleton.. i was working on a watch a few months back that i gave up on because i have NO useful tools. in one of my bulk lots i found a "fat ladies" watch...you know the oversized watch...anyways, i ripped off the pink band, took out the movement and disassembled a molnjia pocket watch i had intended on selling. it sort of dropped right in and looked REAL good BUT.... there was a problem of depth. i think the p.w. mov's could fit with a little lathe massaging, i don't have a lathe. also, the winder hole needed adjustments.. the thing looked like a sick combination of a panerai and iwc but too many things went wrong, so it got put in ziploc bags.

as far as the kits, i guess i should clarify, i want to assemble my own movement. i have given my hand at swapping mov'ts in watches, that is personalizing more-so than assembling or building.. i am still mulling over the idea of buying all the parts from a supplier of the panerai replicas. i also spent WAY too much time on frei's(sp?) site last night and not sure i would go with them because the site is so hard to navigate and disorganized. i am sure i will make a stupid mistake plus i did not really like the stuff they had in general.
thanks all again.
mark


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## ej0rge

The daunting part is how huge this kit will actually have to be. 

I mean if it were just a matter of taking apart the watch, I'd offer to take apart an ST36 (Unitas 6497 clone) and ship it to you in a collection of tiny jars. 

But you also need good screwdrivers, a movement holder, three or more lubricants that cost at least $8/ea and as much as $30/ea, a set of 3 to 5 oil pins, oil cups, finger cots, at least one pair of tweezers, at least a small lump of rodico. Many people will need or prefer a loupe. 

Hand all that to a total beginner and they will be lost, so an oiling chart and instructions or at least a series of high resolution photos would be needed. 

It's certainly not a bad idea. I don't know that anyone offers it. 

I'm a n00b myself but it seems that the vast majority of watchmakers start learning with dis-assembly of a working movement. I started with a nonworking movement and got lucky. That was just yesterday, and today i handed an embarrassing chunk of money to two separate supply houses. 

I realized a few weeks ago that this is like bicycle repair for me. 

When i was young, if my bicycle broke down, my main option was to talk my father into taking it to a repair shop. 

The only repair shop he was interested in visiting, near the university where he still teaches, had a mechanic who was either incompetent or lazy. It seemed like every time i got my bike back it had some new and different problem, sometimes totally unrelated to the reason it had been taken in for repair. 

So, starting when i was about 9 years old, I grew weary of the waiting and uncertainty and took up the wrench myself. 

For the first few years i was no worse than the mechanic who'd been breaking my bike for pay, and much faster. By the time i was 12 I was fixing my siblings and parents bicycles on a regular basis. By the time i was 17 i was lacing my own wheels. I was almost 30 before i realized that lacing up ordinary bicycle wheels is for people who have the proper jigs and people who have way too much time on their hands. 

Last year, i noticed that the dial on my favorite watch had started rotating. Dial feet broken off. At the time i was only vaguely aware that something called dial feet existed. Late in december i took it to a watchmaker who should have been properly trained to deal with such things. 

He failed. His repair held for about an hour. 

When i took it back he gave me my money back (in store credit) and told me my Orient automatic was "not good quality". 

A couple weeks after that i started collecting tools and practice watches. 

A few weeks ago i worked up the nerve to open up my orient slide-rule and investigate for myself. 

My 3rd generation german-american watchmaker had attempted to attach the dial to the slippery plastic movement spacer with jeweler's epoxy. 

I'm at a loss. I do not understand how, as the junior watchmaker in a business that has existed for more than 40 years, he could have come to the conclusion that applying a resin to slippery injection molded plastic without even roughing up the surface could possibly work in the long term. 

I fixed it myself. with essentially what are known as 'dial stickers', though i cut them myself from a large roll of industrial double-sided tape.


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## devilmoon

Philip Bayer said:


> Perhaps not what you are looking for, but Bergeon distributes a few "watch kits," that are assemble yourself watches using ETA movements.
> 
> View attachment 416414
> 
> View attachment 416415


I was looking into one of these. Anybody have experience with them?


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## ghosthunter242

here's the molnija frankenwatch in a parker case that is a little too small. it is a mock up nothing is secure.






you can see the other fat lady watches i have held on to if this were to ever work.


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## ghosthunter242




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## JohnInMinnesota

ej0rge said:


> SNIP
> 
> So, starting when i was about 9 years old, I grew weary of the waiting and uncertainty and took up the wrench myself.
> 
> SNIP


That's my story. My Dad told me at one point in my life - "someone built this - I can fix it". That mantra along with "if it's been created it can be modified and potentially improved" are mine. I've had some bad experiences with all kinds of repair shops. It pays to do some background work before you hand over a valuable watch to a shop.


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## ej0rge

JohnInMinnesota said:


> That's my story. My Dad told me at one point in my life - "someone built this - I can fix it". That mantra along with "if it's been created it can be modified and potentially improved" are mine. I've had some bad experiences with all kinds of repair shops. It pays to do some background work before you hand over a valuable watch to a shop.


The other important lesson for me - that I'm still learning - is that super-competence is almost always an illusion. The best you can hope for, almost always, is regular old competence. If you get lucky, you might get competence + vast applicable knowledge.


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## pithy

*fat ladies*



ghosthunter242 said:


> nice skeleton.. i was working on a watch a few months back that i gave up on because i have NO useful tools. in one of my bulk lots i found a "fat ladies" watch...you know the oversized watch...anyways, i ripped off the pink band, took out the movement and disassembled a molnjia pocket watch i had intended on selling. it sort of dropped right in and looked REAL good BUT.... there was a problem of depth. i think the p.w. mov's could fit with a little lathe massaging, i don't have a lathe. also, the winder hole needed adjustments.. the thing looked like a sick combination of a panerai and iwc but too many things went wrong, so it got put in ziploc bags.


At the risk of throwing nitro methane on an already uncontrollable conflagration, I present the following: An un-pronounceable hecho en el Chino brand with a mangled DG2813 revised into the - "D R rampant rollin' tribute watch": :-d


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## ej0rge

*Re: fat ladies*

I've actually still been thinking about the whole kit question.

Watch factories have no interest in keeping a lot of disassembled movements around, from what i can tell. They produce whole movements, mostly-whole movements, and individually packaged parts that are priced high enough to make it worth their while to put them in little packages.

The factory isn't going to help.

If someone is going to offer a kit like this, obviously they will have to buy whole brand new movements and disassemble them.

Which FEELS foolish to people who have already started disassembling used movements for educational purposes, but, that doesn't mean there isn't enough demand for this sort of thing to justify it.

We can't expect lubrication to remain intact during the packaging and shipping process, so they will have to be cleaned and then the parts packaged. You could get away with using a large-array pill organizer but people would be disappointed with the packaging. Perhaps better to use one of the aluminum cases with multiple nested aluminum tins. For marketing purposes. Maybe lined with foam rubber, or not. I don't know.

It is irrational to remove the balance and simply put it in a little container still attached to it's bridge or cock. It'll never survive the postal service. You would have to reinstall the balance on the main plate for it to even reach the destination intact. And then the assembler will have to remove it again as a first step.

So this sounds like a lot of prep work for a kit of questionable value.

<whine>why can't you just service a vintage movement like a normal tinkerer?</whine>


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## ghosthunter242

ok, well, it's not the same, BUT, i went to a place called 'pdx liquidators'
and they had diy clock making kits in the kid's section.
it is a key wind clear plastic bodied and multicolored gear clock you assemble.

i made my 8 year old help me assemble it.
it was a lot of fun and took about 1/2 an hour after fumbling with some details.. like the key falls out and the spring and ratchet part fall out when that happens, other than that it was a great sense of accomplishment.
mm


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## jonomo

Somewhere else said:


> Such kits exist and they are very successful here in Japan. A friend of mine up in boondocks (Yamagata) has been making assemble it yourself kits for quite a while. I think he's gone through five or six generations of different hand winding watches now . You have to be able to read Japanese to understand the instructions, how.


I know this thread is kind of old, but I was researching this and came upon this thread. I learned of the following product from my friend in Japan (for some reason I knew something like this would exist in japan!)...

¡Ú³ÚÅ·»Ô¾ì¡Û»þ·×ÁÈÎ©¤Æ¥­¥Ã¥È ÁÈ¾¢ KUMITAKU CR001 ¥á¥ó¥º¡Ú¿·ÉÊ¡Û¡ÚÏÓ»þ·×¡Û¡ÚÁ÷ÎÁÌµÎÁ¡Û¡Ú³Ú¥®¥Õ_ÊñÁõ¡Û¡§£Ò£Á£Ó£É£Î¡¡³ÚÅ·»Ô¾ìÅ¹

Use Google Translate or whatever to get the info you need....


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## InvictaJ26

I wish I could find something like the kit that KUMITAKU offer either here in the UK or another English speaking county as I would love to have a go at making a kit.


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## Craig Mansfield

THAT, is beautiful!
I'm here because I want to learn how to make a pocket watch, and I want to make something as beautiful as your watch.

I see this post is an old one, have you been working on watches recently? Cheers, Craig.


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