# SBGA031 vs SBGA231



## zuiko

I know there are other old vs new logo threads but I think the question can vary on a case by case basis.

I've yet to see a real life A031 or A231.

I am partial to the old Seiko up top 031 on this one, but the 231 is growing on me. Thoughts?

















From Rakuten.


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## berni29

Hi

I am just about to buy the old style SBGA031, but I already have the 029, and in fact both the SBGE001 and 015. I thought I did not care much for the logo change, but actually it is growing on me. Not that I don't like the original SEIKO, but I think the new logo is right for the brand in the long term. At the same price I would have the new logo. I think.

All the best

Berni


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## elysium73

I've always preferred the new. IMO, less unnecessary clutter on the dial is more attractive. Is that the only difference between 031 and 231?


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## whineboy

I think the 231 looks fine, on that watch the new design works nicely.
Plus, all other things being equal, my preference is for a newer piece. Lubricants are less deteriorated, pushing off the time for servicing.
Love that high-relief GS crown!


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## matthew P

With the GS branding/ font all up top and the cleaner/ modern text below the newer divers look dressier IMO
The shift in text from the bottom to the top gives them more is a dress watch balance IMO and the removal of the second applied branding "seiko" there's less text over all.

These changes also create more negative space on what is already a pretty spacious black dial.

As an owner of a 029 I prefer the seiko branding and bottom heavy text as it more closely resembles the SKX tool dive watches that I grew up idolizing. 
I wear mine on rubber as a daily wear piece and to me it's a GS quality evolution of the seiko dive watch DNA.










The applied SEIKO up top also balances out nicely with the applied GS down below. 
Symmetry is always hard to argue with this watches power reserve and date window, but I prefer the way the text fits around the power reserve rather than the way the power reserve sits isolated on the new version.

I'm obviously biased but I still prefer the old version , even a year after the new versions release. 
I think the new Grand Seiko branding has been fantastic for the brand and the dress watches ( and if you think of it as a dress diver it's better ) .... and even chronographs , but on the diver, especially a tool diver , I prefer my first love.










PS..... I'm expecting to be in the minority with this opinion..... I'm also aware that many people think the boiled SKX rubber strap is a travesty, 
I'm sorry but it works for me.


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## bluedialer

I'm somehow just not attracted to this diver's watch. Maybe I should go handle one (I've had multiple opportunities to just ask to see it; that's how off the radar it's been). But if I chose based on which is a nicer looking watch design, it would be old version.


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## ahonobaka

matthew P hitting the nail on the head yet again...Personally prefer the 031 over the 231 but I'm biased as the 031 is my favorite watch and represents Seiko diver DNA at it's finest. I wanted to buy a 229 for the new dial as a daily wearer, but only because I already own the 031 OG titanium. One other thing to note is the "cluttered" dial on the originals helps bring the size down visually, since let's be honest they're not the smallest.


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## zuiko

I agree with you guys, I think the SEIKO up the top is almost like the essential ingredient in the GS diver's credibility. GS is a watch brand that is better known for it’s timeless 1960’s classic watches. The introduction of a sport's range like the divers, GMT, and Chronographs is an obvious attempt to grow it's audience into sport's watch enthusiasts.

The sports range may even be seen as a bridge, hook, trojan horse, an entry door or even a welcome mat to the GS brand. The positioning of SEIKO up top really brings the heritage of the greatest diving watches the world has known into the GS brand. I think the old world watches really have that presence because of the logo. 

I hung on to the old logo sports watches I have despite the fact I have really taken to the new logo with the several new logo watches I have with it. In fact it's become what I expect to see with a Grand Seiko watch. 

Now the confession. I have decided to trade in my SBGA029 with all the loss attendant with that decision, for a SBGA231. I had always wanted the 031 from the pictures I had seen of it in forums. I believe it was a Master Shop / Boutique exclusive then. Another way to insure that buyer's came in to a boutique and could see some of the other finery on display. It was just never available locally and from what I can tell none have made it to these shores. A big reason being the fact it's list price comes right in at the scary $10,000 AUD five figure mark. 

Those who can get over the eye watering price have to pony up half this and then wait for several months for the watch to arrive in the next shipment. 

Despite all this I was able to patch up something and it appears I am to lose my 029 which I genuinely loved for all the reasons above but the new logo doesn't scare me anymore and I really needed to have the much more wearable titanium model. The 200+ gram of the stainless 029 takes the weight to ridiculous levels and I take my hat off to those who can wear that weight daily. I think it's Seiko's way of getting people to graduate to the more expensive titanium version. That one weighs 137 grams. 

After my recent acceptance and embrace even of the quartz 9F I am at peace with Spring Drive again. I think the A231 will be worn often as one of my daily wearer rotation watches. It will be sad to see the A029 go, my second or third GS (I really can't remember because it's been a while but suspect it was second). I have the SEIKO up top SLA017 and to arrive SLA025 as well as the SBEX001 which represent pinnacle watches with the diving heritage. I'm okay with the A231 being just a Grand Seiko along with it's cousin H257. 

Anyhow, a long winded way of saying I traded my A029 for a A231 and that I am excited.


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## matthew P

zuiko said:


> Anyhow, a long winded way of saying I traded my A029 for a A231 and that I am excited.


pics when it arrives... you are going to love it on wrist with its bracelet..... I haven't even tried to wear my029 on metal as I know 200gms is way too much for me no matter how well balanced.


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## zuiko

matthew P said:


> pics when it arrives... you are going to love it on wrist with its bracelet..... I haven't even tried to wear my029 on metal as I know 200gms is way too much for me no matter how well balanced.


Sometimes I think I post too many pictures 

The A029 is a watch I got without really realising how difficult it is to wear 200 grams on a wrist regularly. I can do it for occasions but not as an all day.

I have overcompensated on the loss of a SEIKO up top watch ie. the A029 with two recent purchases of Seiko divers, an SBDX011 and 017.

I tried the MM300 on its bracelet and it's still a 200 gram watch at the end of the day. I thought the caseback and different weight distribution would make it possible but alas it's not and it went on a spare accordion type Seiko OEM strap and is now wearable at 146 grams but the strap still needs a bit of breaking in. The wrist strain and ache from the attempted 200gram wear needs to heal before I can tell whether it's truly comfortable.

The Emperor Tuna on the other hand is still being worn concurrently on my right wrist while at home to break in it's strap and keep the movement going so that it settles in to a daily routine. Despite it's size I prefer it to the MM300 overall.

The bezel actions are comparable but just that bit nicer on my example of the Emperor and I love the warmer lume having slight cream brown vintage look to it compared to the off white yellow green of the MM300.

But the thing I don't like the most on the MM300 is the crown being non-aligned to the 4 o'clock index. Lazy design. The caseback bulge, the 'fuzzy' bezel teeth ie. not machined to precision like the SBEX, the seconds hand that still has a bit of machine burr and looking unfinished.

I'm so pleased the SLA025 (6159-7001 re-issue) remedies the 4 o clock aligned crown and uses a new case. I can see the potential in the design and feel certain that my MM300 will be relegated to being a bystander until I trade it at some point in the future because of it's overall incoherency.

The MM300 is a pig with lipstick, an attractive pig admittedly, and expensive lipstick at that but it's still a pig imo.

















The Emperor would be the watch I'd want on a deserted island. It's my deserted island watch, no question.


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## berni29

Hi There

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I was looking for a secondhand SBGA031, and I found one! But then a week or so later I found an SBGA231 for less than I paid for the 031. So of course I had to buy it. The condition is not quite as good, but it is only a year old, and I do marginally prefer the new logo. There seems to be a slight difference in the colour of the bracelets, and they are also marked differently the earlier one being stamped Seiko "TITANIUM ALLOY + ST.STEEL-G" and the later Seiko "TITANIUM ALLOY + ST. STEEL -B JAPAN" in a different font and over 3 lines rather than two.

I intend to sell the 031 version. I shall keep the 029 steel version that I already have though.


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## CraigShipp

I went to Little Treasury Jewelers yesterday and liked the watch so much I bought it. For me the insert video clip and photo options are not working so my YouTube link is below.


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## berni29

Hi

Its a great choice, and the best looking diver on the market in my opinion. Nice video! I can see that the clasp on yours has the same inscriptions as mine. Easily read on such high def video.


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## zuiko

berni29 said:


> Hi There
> 
> I mentioned earlier in this thread that I was looking for a secondhand SBGA031, and I found one! But then a week or so later I found an SBGA231 for less than I paid for the 031. So of course I had to buy it. The condition is not quite as good, but it is only a year old, and I do marginally prefer the new logo. There seems to be a slight difference in the colour of the bracelets, and they are also marked differently the earlier one being stamped Seiko "TITANIUM ALLOY + ST.STEEL-G" and the later Seiko "TITANIUM ALLOY + ST. STEEL -B JAPAN" in a different font and over 3 lines rather than two.
> 
> I intend to sell the 031 version. I shall keep the 029 steel version that I already have though.
> 
> View attachment 13121587
> View attachment 13121589


Wow thanks for the side by side.

As much as I don't mind the old look at all I think the new one is totally awesome and really distinguishes the watch as a Grand Seiko.

My 231will arrive around June so still waiting on it but your pictures make me know it's worth it.


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## matthew P

berni29 said:


> View attachment 13121587


wow.... opinion revision here.

with the GS branding in gold being contained to the top half I can see the attraction to the cleaner new dial..... sure, I still appreciate the old school Seiko up top but the new school Ti version appeals more to me than i expected.


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## zuiko

Tonight is the first night with the replacement for my SBGA029 which is still in the plastic for delivery (a rarity in the retail world here, and a rarity for me to show such patience) looks and feels (weight wise) absolutely what I was expecting. Being a regular edition I'll almost certainly wear this one a great deal down the track but I think I'm going to let it wait a while. My dive watch addiction made me stray towards Omega with one of their 1957 Seamaster 300 LE trilogy watch and while isn't perfect for me adds something else to compare to. I don't like anything really in Omega's dive watches otherwise. If I was into it back then I might have had a Spectre edition (for it's looks since it's marketing link to 007 makes no impact on me) but nothing appeals much. The LE compares favourably but the SLA017 blows it away in style and substance. To be fair the SLA017 is a watch in it's original guise that was 8 years further on from the 1957 Seamaster.

Anyway I ramble... the A231 is a worthy replacement for the A029; a watch that I loved but could not bear to wear (due to it's weight). In titanium and with gold New Logo it's a watch I know will pull me back towards the Spring Drive and I can (sadly?) see it happening down the line, an Eich II.


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## dr.sphinx

All has been said, but are you guys sure about the lonely PR on the new models? With less text on the dial, I think it almost begs to be placed somewhere else. I am actually still soldiering on with the 029 - just not ready for the golden details. But I am used to wearing MM300, so no biggie (btw, zuiko, them was some fighting words about the MM300  ).


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## zuiko

dr.sphinx said:


> All has been said, but are you guys sure about the lonely PR on the new models? With less text on the dial, I think it almost begs to be placed somewhere else. I am actually still soldiering on with the 029 - just not ready for the golden details. But I am used to wearing MM300, so no biggie (btw, zuiko, them was some fighting words about the MM300  ).


The power reserve... my eye is used to it's current spot but it would not surprise me if they changed the layout down the track. The PR position has been played with before on Spring Drives.

The MM300, I got it out a few days ago and really it's a watch I still can't see myself keeping for the long term. I got it to play the Seiko lottery and it turns out it has a chapter ring that is misaligned by the breadth of a bee's .... proboscis counter-clockwise ie only obvious with 10x magnification. The weight is the biggest issue though. It's another ultra-heavyweight and I can't wear it for more than half a day.

It will be interesting to see where the MM300 goes. I'm pretty sure it will be reborn in a more expensive form. It's a watch with a huge following and now close to two decades behind it. It's still too imperfect for me as a whole and I think they do it deliberately to keep it in it's place amongst the extensive diver models Seiko makes.

What I await eagerly is the SLA025 coming in the next month or two. A watch that I think will see that the MM300 is retired from my collection in short order.


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## Dorfmeister

I think in the future it wouldn't hurt if they would put the power reserve indicator somewhere else. Now they rebranded Grand Seiko, but didn't do anything else about the movement resulting in a (even more) asymmetrical dial. The ideal solution would be to put it in the back but I don't know how realistic that is, but they did it with a Credor watch. With the current branding the design of the dial is somewhat off imho (just like the SBGA211).


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## dr.sphinx

zuiko said:


> The MM300 .... The weight is the biggest issue though... I'm pretty sure it will be reborn in a more expensive form
> What I await eagerly is the SLA025 coming in the next month or two. .


Don't get me wrong, there are many valid reasons why it is not a perfect watch and you listed some  It's actually refreshing to hear a clear negative opinion as the MM300 tends to be pussyfooted around too much. Better luck with the SLA025, they ain't slender either 

Anyway, had a chance to handle the GS hi-beat divers again a couple of days ago and I would still rather have 029/229/031/231 than those anytime, so I guess it's all good, though I still second the opinion that SEIKO on the dial befits a diver better than just GS.


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## zuiko

dr.sphinx said:


> Don't get me wrong, there are many valid reasons why it is not a perfect watch and you listed some  It's actually refreshing to hear a clear negative opinion as the MM300 tends to be pussyfooted around too much. Better luck with the SLA025, they ain't slender either
> 
> Anyway, had a chance to handle the GS hi-beat divers again a couple of days ago and I would still rather have 029/229/031/231 than those anytime, so I guess it's all good, though I still second the opinion that SEIKO on the dial befits a diver better than just GS.


Absolutely agree on the broader Seiko front.

I mean Seiko dominates the diving watch scene so overwhelmingly it isn't funny. And there are no shortages of divers of every description and price level here. It's so comprehensive it's ridiculous.

The Seiko on the dial thing is history for the 231 now and I like both but the dual gold marking of the 031is borderline acceptable imo; but leaving one or other silver would be controversial too. I like the increased coherence of the new dial from the lettering/labelling standpoint but as discussed above the power reserve is probably the more interesting thing given the new logo change is done now.

I reviewed some pictures of the A029 today and the bracelet clasp bevel is polished on that and not on the titanium versions. A subtle difference but nevertheless present. I do have some slight regrets at letting it go since it is spectacular in it's finish but the weight was too much for a watch I intended to wear very often but it wasn't to be.


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## valuewatchguy

I'm pleased a heck with the old logo and the balance that it brings. I do think it looks better than the new logo BUT had I been given the option of either one for the same price it wouldn't really matter to me.


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## zuiko

.


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## zuiko

valuewatchguy said:


> I'm pleased a heck with the old logo and the balance that it brings. I do think it looks better than the new logo BUT had I been given the option of either one for the same price it wouldn't really matter to me.
> 
> View attachment 13196795


I thought it didn't matter and still I would gladly wear either, but the new logo grows on one. For me it's joining the dominant crowd. With the disappearance of two old logos from my collection and replaced with new logos my eye is becoming biased towards the new.

The single dominant gold logo at 12 again adds to that elegant ruggedness it does so well. It's a single focal point. Most people don't care what some other's watch is unless one is a watch enthusiast. So the enthusiast whether they be knowledgeable about GS or not has their eyes drawn to this point. Maybe that's a bad thing? Maybe it ruins some of the more underground stealth of the old logo. I don't know. It stands out and means even the GS fans can see which one is silver and which is gold  No one gets a silver medal for coming first after all......


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## matthew P

great photo VWG.... I'm still enjoying my old school diver but both those versions of the Ti diver do look wonderful on the bracelet

my urge for a smaller sized diver that i could wear on a bracelet has caused me to sin and add an un needed splash of color into my collection ( plastic still on as I'm not quite sure yet if i can justify it to the wife. )


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## zuiko

matthew P said:


> great photo VWG.... I'm still enjoying my old school diver but both those versions of the Ti diver do look wonderful on the bracelet
> 
> my urge for a smaller sized diver that i could wear on a bracelet has caused me to sin and add an un needed splash of color into my collection ( plastic still on as I'm not quite sure yet if i can justify it to the wife. )


Hi matthew P, your collection really deserves praise for the restraint and great thought put into each watch choice. A selection of the finest. Congratulations on the Rolex Explorer I. It's a watch that is always on the radar for me and I think it's current incarnation is just about perfect. There's no ceramic bezel or other crazy thing coming I would say. You have a collection that has timelessness all over it. Watches that have and probably will stand the test of time.

So I had tried to tamp down my 369 style watch with the green Seiko Alpinist, and on the OEM metal bracelet it definitely gives one a feel of a more faux vintage style. Somewhat truer to the small sizes these early 369 watches, even the Rolex Explorer had when it was 36mm.

But it stood little chance of sustained wrist time amongst my GS. I'll probably splurge on some of these old desires in the Rolex world like an Explorer I, and if Rolex ever dares to venture into historical remakes then an Orange hand 1970's Explorer II that I would love to own (maybe even a PN Daytona), when I turn 50 as a celebration of over 25 years of watch mania for me. So Rolex, if you read this then please mail me an invoice for your first three publicly available specimens.

But one piece recently got me looking outside the GS scene and it was an Omega Seamaster 300 LE which I think covers the 369 style well, even with it's additional 12 index.

















A watch I think the Omega community overlooked in the mania for yet another Speedmaster. This I think is the real gem amongst the Trilogy but only time will tell.


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## KFraz

I can go either way on this one. On a few models one looks clearly better to my eyes, but on this diver I think both of them look great. That being said, if you like both I would go for the discontinued one for potential value retention / increase. It's not guaranteed but it's more likely than the current production model.


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## Glengooligan

matthew P said:


> With the GS branding/ font all up top and the cleaner/ modern text below the newer divers look dressier IMO
> The shift in text from the bottom to the top gives them more is a dress watch balance IMO and the removal of the second applied branding "seiko" there's less text over all.
> 
> These changes also create more negative space on what is already a pretty spacious black dial.
> 
> As an owner of a 029 I prefer the seiko branding and bottom heavy text as it more closely resembles the SKX tool dive watches that I grew up idolizing.
> I wear mine on rubber as a daily wear piece and to me it's a GS quality evolution of the seiko dive watch DNA.
> 
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> The applied SEIKO up top also balances out nicely with the applied GS down below.
> Symmetry is always hard to argue with this watches power reserve and date window, but I prefer the way the text fits around the power reserve rather than the way the power reserve sits isolated on the new version.
> 
> I'm obviously biased but I still prefer the old version , even a year after the new versions release.
> I think the new Grand Seiko branding has been fantastic for the brand and the dress watches ( and if you think of it as a dress diver it's better ) .... and even chronographs , but on the diver, especially a tool diver , I prefer my first love.
> 
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> PS..... I'm expecting to be in the minority with this opinion..... I'm also aware that many people think the boiled SKX rubber strap is a travesty,
> I'm sorry but it works for me.


What kikd of rubber strap is that? The UNtravestied version?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


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## matthew P

Glengooligan said:


> What kikd of rubber strap is that? The UNtravestied version?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


This one?










Bonetto.... that I trimmed down from 24mm at the lugs and turned inside out to not have the taper

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## berni29

Hi

Seeing as this thread has come back to life here is a pic of my 231 worn today. I still love my 029, and in an MN it's really not so heavy and has a totally different vibe to it.


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Watch19

berni29 said:


> Hi
> 
> Seeing as this thread has come back to life here is a pic of my 231 worn today. I still love my 029, and in an MN it's really not so heavy and has a totally different vibe to it.
> 
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> That's great having otherwise identical versions of the old and new dials but in different case metals.
> 
> On this model and most others, I like both with a slight nod to the new. The GS's where I definitely prefer the older dial are the quartz models where the newer version has nothing on the lower dial. Some see those as "cleaner" but to me, they look barren and unbalanced.
> Took a look at a SBGV207 (44GS homage w/thinner case) at the only local GS AD today and:
> 1. The dial looked more gray than black at certain lighting angles.
> 2. The empty lower dial made that "not black" tone more obvious.
> 3. The second hand was missing the hash marks by the width of it's tip and the sales creature's response was "they're all like that so just buy
> an Automatic or Spring Drive instead". Sales technique at it's finest!? Funny, the hands (all 7 of them) on my 1980's 7A48"s line up
> perfectly . . .
> 
> No sale


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## ahonobaka

Lovely combo berni29! I have a safequeen 031, and am considering buying the 229 if GS doesn't reveal a new diver at Basel 2019, so basically the inverted versions of your two!

For me, I'll always prefer the OG dial on the Spring Drive diver's, but strictly out of bias for the 031 being my "grail", and the first true "luxury" watch that I've purchased. You never forget your first, as they say!


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## Glengooligan

Looks sharp!


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## jcc5024

CraigShipp said:


> I went to Little Treasury Jewelers yesterday and liked the watch so much I bought it. For me the insert video clip and photo options are not working so my YouTube link is below.


Your YouTube videos are great. They pushed me to purchase a sbge201g.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## wesayhowdyhere

Resurrecting this old thread just to throw my $.02 in the «.old logo.» direction. I really think this particular watch, the 029/031 Seiko up top looks better than the new GS logo. On most other GS I do like the new logo, but on the dive watches I think the old way just looks more ... correct!


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## Hardaway

This always seems like a nice sub alternative. I just can’t get over the short even stubby hour hand.


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## gychang03

I like the new logo. the gold GS just catches the light in a great way


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## berni29

Hardaway said:


> This always seems like a nice sub alternative. I just can't get over the short even stubby hour hand.


Hi, I must say I have never felt that way about the hands. I do know not everyone likes them but for me the whole watch just looks well balanced and "right". The hour hand does have quite a long "tip" to it. So it's perhaps not quite as short as it may appear at first glance.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TellingTime

Besides the markers, I've never understood how this sbga231 could ever be confused with a Sub. Completely different watches. --Size, material, bracelet, date, bezel.


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## dwalby

TellingTime said:


> Besides the markers, I've never understood how this sbga231 could ever be confused with a Sub. Completely different watches. --Size, material, bracelet, date, bezel.


did someone make that claim? Didn't read all 4 pages, so excuse me if I missed it, but I don't recall them being commonly confused. Given the current pricing (and availability) I wouldn't even give a Sub a second look compared to the spring drive divers, and I used to own a Sub.


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## gychang03

agreed. Just the size alone is enough to differentiate the two. Given the movement, finishing, and other details, I'd much rather own a GS diver than a sub. I should also add that I also have a milgauss... which I'm planning to sell now that I've got a GS diver.


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## DVR

Wow, this topic keeps coming back on top.
Love both, no preference really. 
What I do want to say is the hands are perfect to me.

Also the weight of the steel one is just fine. Hard to understand 200gr is heavy but YMMV as always.

My watch
https://i.imgur.com/6VHfQxp.jpg









info: Imgur and WUS don't mix well from time to time, picture not visible? click on direct link, after error refresh and picture shows.


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## gychang03

DVR said:


> Wow, this topic keeps coming back on top.
> Love both, no preference really.
> What I do want to say is the hands are perfect to me.
> 
> Also the weight of the steel one is just fine. Hard to understand 200gr is heavy but YMMV as always.
> 
> My watch
> https://i.imgur.com/6VHfQxp.jpg
> 
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> info: Imgur and WUS don't mix well from time to time, picture not visible? click on direct link, after error refresh and picture shows.


Wow that's a really nice one! what model is that? I love the pop of blue on the short end of the second hand


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## DVR

That's the SBGA071 from 2012, it's even better in real. Love that watch.


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## Sparrowhawk

DVR said:


> That's the SBGA071 from 2012, it's even better in real. Love that watch.


I agree, that is sharp. Wish they would bring something like that forward as an option for the A231.


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## TCWU

I found out the old logo one's list price is $330 USD lower than the new one
because these are kind of new old stocks
the local dealer is more willing to offer a better discount than new one
I got the 015 with 44% off if I go for 215 I bet I only at most get 22-23% off

I will go for which one is cheaper in this case basically they are the identical watch..why pay more


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