# Oris, Hamilton, and Tag Heuer Name Cache??



## lakerguy3 (Apr 14, 2008)

Alright I am always interested in how people view individual watch brands versus others.
So I thought I'd pick my three favorite brands and see how others view them. So what do you guys think the cache order of these three brands are? Hamilton, Tag , and Oris, who ya got and why? I'm going to try and post the same question on all three boards.


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## Chris Hohne (May 1, 2005)

Here's my order: Oris 1st, Hamilton 2nd, Tag 3rd. However, a person's order depends on what is important to them. I like Oris due to the unique design, relative rarity (I have never seen another person wearing an Oris besides me), build quaility, and the relative value. Hamilton gets 2nd due to build quality and value. Most Hamilton designs are not that unique. Tag, to me at least, is overpriced for what you get and over advertised (again my opinion).

I feel like Tag is a brand for people looking for brand recognition even though they are not really into watches. Hamilton is more for "watch people", but Oris is the most for "watch people" as most non "watch people" don't even know what Oris is.

Just my .02, nothing more. My opinions are not meant to offend anybody. Please feel free to disagree with my opinions.

Chris


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## ronin26 (Jan 5, 2011)

Chris Hohne said:


> I feel like Tag is a brand for people looking for brand recognition even though they are not really into watches. Hamilton is more for "watch people", but Oris is the most for "watch people" as most non "watch people" don't even know what Oris is.
> Chris


My opinion exactly. When I was looking into buying a swiss watch I talked to a friend of mine who directed me to WUS and after lurking awhile I bought an Oris for the reason above. I wanted a nice watch that would be appreciated by "watch people" not people who recognize a popular brand.

I just ordered my first Hamilton. I chose the Hammy because of the history and that again it is a "watch persons" watch. I also like what you get for your money with the Hamilton. I love my Oris but I can't wear it at work so it spends more time in the winder than on my wrist. The Hamilton I will wear at work so it should see lots of wrist time.

I cannot comment on Tag directly as I do not own one. I have tried on a couple and they do seem really nice, if I wanted to advertise I may have purchased one.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Chris Hohne said:


> Here's my order: Oris 1st, Hamilton 2nd, Tag 3rd. However, a person's order depends on what is important to them. I like Oris due to the unique design, relative rarity (I have never seen another person wearing an Oris besides me), build quaility, and the relative value. Hamilton gets 2nd due to build quality and value. Most Hamilton designs are not that unique. Tag, to me at least, is overpriced for what you get and over advertised (again my opinion).
> 
> I feel like Tag is a brand for people looking for brand recognition even though they are not really into watches. Hamilton is more for "watch people", but Oris is the most for "watch people" as most non "watch people" don't even know what Oris is.
> 
> ...


I own two of the three brands and I agree with the statements above...


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

ronin26 said:


> I just ordered my first Hamilton. I chose the Hammy because of the history and that again it is a "watch persons" watch.


Ya but you just advertised that you're a "watch person", which is no different an act to purchasing any other kind of watch with which you choose to "advertise". If you think choosing a non-Tag watch advertised that you are somehow a better person than someone who chooses a Tag... well, ya just advertised that you're prejudiced, for a start.

If there one thing to be said against Tag it's that they're very expensive for the spec you get. But then so is Oris, which is a shadow of the bargain - relatively speaking - it used to be.


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## ronin26 (Jan 5, 2011)

I don't think I'm better than anyone, I just choose to purchase stuff I appreciate for more than brand recognition.


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## scoot (Apr 16, 2011)

I have a 15 year old TAG 2000 automatic, a recent Oris Day Date and two year old Hamilton Viewmatic. In terms of build quality, I have to give the TAG the blue ribbon. After about 13 years of daily wear and intermittent over the past two, it looks and works as well as ever. The Oris and Hamilton are great watches but they will need many thousands of hours of use before I can say they are the equal of the TAG.


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## zephyrnoid (Mar 12, 2011)

Since you asked about name brand CACHÉ, that's what I'll address. 
TAG is the only one that I've owned ( A Link SEl Professional in Silver w/ Black dial). I give it top marks as it has fulfilled my EDC watch requirements and gets "oooh ah" from the ladies that always ask me if I've golfed with Tiger Woods. Ah hah! You see. Brands do matter when it comes to Caché. Having said that, I'm certain the other brands that you cited will have their 'followers' rank them differently. Who are the Hamilton and Oris ambassadors?
Aside: My TAG keeps perfect time ( it's a quartz) but the date dial is broken . Oh well! The ladies don't care if it even runs


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## ats0281 (Jun 27, 2010)

ORIS(Independent Co) is No1 - No doubt - feels great wearing ORIS Diver:-!
My tt1 keeps great time for 6 years.
I don't know much about Hamilton(Swatch Group) but they seem to change their model very fast.
I had Heuer Diver(before Tag) and I liked it very much.
But Tag(LVMH Group) is a little cluttered and fancy for my taste and over advertised with those ambassador from Hollywood movie :-s It's just not for me anymore - find a bit tacky:roll:


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## wilfreb (Jul 10, 2007)

i own Oris and Tag, not hamilton.

brand, yes i like a known brand, i wouldnt paid $9000 usd for my DeepSea if it wasnt a rolex, a brand means quality, resale value, and heritage, and you have to pay for that.
when you buy a tag you get, quality, a known brand, and heritage, and that cost.

Tag has much better fit and finish than oris, better overall quality, but thats why tag is more expensive, oris is a great brand with very original designs, i love my tt1

tag is a true watch manufacturer, as they make all their cases, bracelets, dials, and some of the most unique movements ever produced.

do the math.


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## Watchyman (Mar 4, 2010)

TAG : Spends millions on advertisement and "Ambassadors" that's why it's more expensive, people recognize them. They DO MAKE NICE GOOD WATCHES, but the thing is, if someone notices your watch and then that same person checks TH's website they'll see DiCaprio and B. Pitt and they'll think "Oohhh, i can have the same watch as Brad Pitt" and therefore TH makes another sale.
ORIS: Does not have "Look at me i married Angelina Jolie after i divorced Jen Aniston" kinda ambassadors, but they do sponsor some interesting -maybe exclusive- kinda things like F1 and Carlos Coste the diver. Oh, they make NICE AND GOOD WATCHES TOO, so they are more of a conoisseur brand.
HAMMIES: Used to be very important horologicaly speaking but then they got "absorbed" by the multibrand consortium known as SWATCH. So they -like the other brands under that umbrella- are very much slaves to what SWATCH wants to do with them, currently they are in "middle range" slot in their hyerarchy but you can still get a lot of good things from your money from them. E.g. The Jazzmaster Chrono looks very much like the TH Carrera (Val 7750, Saph, 100M WR) but the Hammie goes for less than 1 grand and the TH goes for almost 3.
A good thing about Oris and Hammies is that they don't have girly men obsessed with them (fanboys) associated with them.


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Well, I've owned each, so my experience is based on what was on my wrist.

Hammie: A very generic 7750 chronograph. Well made, but looking like the <$500 that I spent on it, if you know what I mean.

Tag - actually Heuer: A very nicely made chronograph. Very good quality on the case, dial, and hands. Despite the fact that it uses the same movement as a Speedy Pro, an atrocious time keeper.

Oris: Unique design and build. Some reliability issues (movement), but well made.

Overall, I would rate them Oris, Hammie, Tag. While the Tag is better built, its time keeping kills me. The only reason I don't dump it is superstition (OK, that is another story for another day). The Hammie is just cheap. Not bad for a sub $500 watch, but that is what it is. While there was some reliability issues, the Oris was fixed at minimal cost and runs well. I would buy another Oris before I purchased another Tag or Hammie.

Dan


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## WnS (Feb 20, 2011)

I bought an Oris as my first watch, and have flipped my subsequent Seiko and Deep Blue purchases (which I initially believed to be better value, I was wrong). It's just unique and cool, and not in the Mac vs PC way.

Hammies aren't available in Australia so I can't comment.

TAG is decent but overpriced for what they are. Some of their range is viewed as superior to Oris but for a little more I'd get an Omega. Plus TAG bracelets are generic.

I rank they Oris > TAG.


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks for the entertainment, boys!

In terms of watchmaking, please inform me of any significant advances either Oris or Hamilton have made in the last ten years. Now do some research on what TAG has done and you will see real technical advances in watchmaking. 

Are they more expensive with similar movements? Sure. But becoming a true manufacture has it's costs and in the long run raises the brand's standing within the watch industry pecking order.

Oris and Hamilton will remain where they are: making quality watches for the entry level Swiss watch buyer. Nothing wrong with that. I've owned many Hamiltons and Oris watches over the years and they peformed flawlessly and would recommend them to someone looing for a great watch.

But please don't regurgitate the same old lame story that has been brought up for years: fashion watches, marketing company, etc. Do some research about what TAG heuer has brought out during Basel for the last 10 years and you will see significant industry awards for new developments in real watchmaking to move them into the rhelm of manufactures and moving away from being a customer brand that Oris and Hamilton continue to be. This is a long and expensive process to move up to the next level.

R&D to become a manufacture costs alot of money. These costs are spread over the entire range of their lineup. It's why a Carrera retails for $2200 and a Jazzmaster cost under $1000. See what Omega is doing with its movemnt line and the substantial price increases their watches have been hit with. The cheapest Seamaster auto is about $3500. (by the way, Omega and Breitling both advertise more than TAG Heuer and have costly ambassadors as well).

The bottomline is all three brands make great, quality watches. If you are in Oris' or Hamilton's demographic, those brands will serve you very well, I can personally attest to that. But TAG is moving in a completely different direction than Oris and Hamilton, a direction more closely associated with what Omega and Breitling are doing. Meanwhile Hamilton will continue to make another iteration of X-this and X-that which are the same watches with different dials. TAG has vacated the entry level Swiss arena that they shared with Oris and Hamilton. Moving up market also means higher prices. I am on record as saying I didn't like that TAG has moved upmarket so fast. While I love the barnd, it means that my dollar doesn't go as far which means less watches to buy. It is my guess that Oris and Hamilton didn't mind TAG moving away from their customer base as those brands will take in people who can't move up to a TAG Heuer.

So, rather than make posts about what TAG may have been ten years ago and prior, look at what they have accomplished since 2004 and forward. Watches and movements take many years to develop. In the next ten years you will see this R&D come to fruition and filter down into their main lines of watches, not just put in concepts. TAG's watches will continue to get more costly as they move closer to becoming a complete manufacture.

Let's just be happy that we all have quality watches available to us at prices that are acceptable.


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Wisconsin Proud said:


> Thanks for the entertainment, boys!
> 
> <<snip long stuff>>
> 
> Let's just be happy that we all have quality watches available to us at prices that are acceptable.


You are ignoring that some of us do buy watches for their looks and not what their companies have or have not done. Well, at least I do.

Cheers!

Dan


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

D N Ravenna said:


> You are ignoring that some of us do buy watches for their looks and not what their companies have or have not done. Well, at least I do.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Dan


The OP's question was about cache, not looks.


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## Watchyman (Mar 4, 2010)

TALK ABOUT ENTERTAINMENT!! (Ernie, we need the smiley with the popcorn ASAP)


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## Cana (May 6, 2008)

Wisconsin Proud said:


> Thanks for the entertainment, boys!
> 
> So, rather than make posts about what TAG may have been ten years ago and prior, look at what they have accomplished since 2004 and forward. Watches and movements take many years to develop. In the next ten years you will see this R&D come to fruition and filter down into their main lines of watches, not just put in concepts. TAG's watches will continue to get more costly as they move closer to becoming a complete manufacture.
> 
> Let's just be happy that we all have quality watches available to us at prices that are acceptable.


Are you forgetting that TAG did try to sell us on a new movement that was only a remake of a Seiko movement. Wasn't that just last year. Good R&D there.


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## ats0281 (Jun 27, 2010)

Tag's new calibre 1887 is made by Seiko.
Tag just bought the intellectual property from Seiko.
And their calibre S is just battery operated - nothing like Seiko's Kinetic or Spring drive.
I think they realised that they need to produce their own movement instead of just making more fancy cases or huge marketing with their ambassador but... 


Are you forgetting that TAG did try to sell us on a new movement that was only a remake of a Seiko movement. Wasn't that just last year. Good R&D there.


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

No post is complete without an English school marm lesson.

We are talking about cachet, where one popular definition is "superior status; prestige" and not cache, which typically means "a hiding place, especially one in the ground".

I do have to be honest in that when I think of cachet, I think of when Omega brought out the original Seamaster, or you had the Heuer Monaco, or the Zenith El Primero. Now-a-days, these companies have been purchased over and over again so that there is no cachet in my opinion. Tag and Zenith share the same movements at time because they are owned by the same people. It does make sense afterall. Omega has stopped using some because they are not owned by Swatch. ;-( It took Rolex years upon years to make their own chronograph movement.

I am hoping that in the years to come, these companies once again make their own, distinctive cachet. In the meantime, I live in the land of vintage.

All the best,
Dan


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

ats0281 said:


> Tag's new calibre 1887 is made by Seiko. Not true.
> Tag just bought the intellectual property from Seiko. True. But it's taken them 2-3 years to get what they want it to be.
> And their calibre S is just battery operated - nothing like Seiko's Kinetic or Spring drive. Does Oris or Hamilton make anything like it?
> I think they realised that they need to produce their own movement instead of just making more fancy cases or huge marketing with their ambassador but... So, now they make their own movement - make up you rmind - which is it, genius? Does anyone give a rip who Carlos Coste is? LOL!
> ...


red...


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## Carrera 3 (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm very sure they are brand followers that couldn't care less what is inside a watch purchase because it's a Tag Heuer (perception of prestige). Nothing wrong with that..It tells time like a $6000 Rolex Sub. To many, the TH is a bargain compared to Rolex. You get prestige (closing to Omega level maybe???) and value for money. That I believe, is WPs reasoning of TH stepping away from the Oris level...and i totally agree.

However...

Whilst I believe Tag Heuer has a better prestige in terms of technical R and D. I don't believe they should overprice their entry level watches particularly their quartz range (Fomula 1, Aquaracer). For the same price, I would rather buy an Oris with an ETA automatic movement than a Quartz Fomula 1 if I was just comparing technical terms... 

If I'm going to finance my prefered brand in technical R and D, I would prefer to finance it by buying the value added in terms of technical R and D in the watch it self...not paying premium for a lesser watch and just have the "feel good" and the notion that I've purchased a good brand in r and d...That is just me. Some may think otherwise.

Overall and generally all factors considered, I would rank Tag Heuer as 1st, Oris as 2nd and Hamilton 3rd.

I have growing interest in the BC4 Choronograph strap which houses the 7750 for casual wear if my management permits...great looking watch...reliable movement and great price after discount...my only concern...the size...43mm maybe a tad big for me but with a leather jacket, it could hide my small 6.5 inches wrist...


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## Watchyman (Mar 4, 2010)

D N Ravenna said:


> No post is complete without an English school marm lesson.
> 
> We are talking about cachet, where one popular definition is "superior status; prestige" and not cache, which typically means "a hiding place, especially one in the ground".
> 
> ...


Dan i wish i could be there with you, my problem is that vintage watches tend to be too small for liking.
I envy you brother!


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

Carrera 3 said:


> However...
> 
> Whilst I believe Tag Heuer has a better prestige in terms of technical R and D. I don't believe they should overprice their entry level watches particularly their quartz range (Fomula 1, Aquaracer). For the same price, I would rather buy an Oris with an ETA automatic movement than a Quartz Fomula 1 if I was just comparing technical terms...
> 
> If I'm going to finance my prefered brand in technical R and D, I would prefer to finance it by buying the value added in terms of technical R and D in the watch it self...not paying premium for a lesser watch and just have the "feel good" and the notion that I've purchased a good brand in r and d...That is just me. Some may think otherwise.


I understand the value quotient seems out of whack in the quartz/entry level line. Unfortunately, without premiums for the entry level watches, the models that have more R&D would be outrageously priced, if even made at all.

TAG does charge more for F1s and Aquaracers because these lines are high volume sellers. Getting a couple hundered extra for these goes along way to keep prices down on the models with high R&D costs.

For example, the new Moncao 24 system costs way more to develop than they will ever recover just through sales of that watch. Same with the V4 movement. If they didnt spread costs, these watches would never be made.

It's a question the buyer has to ask - do I get a watch from another brand that may have lower cost or do I buy the other brand knowing some of my price goes towards a product I'm not buying. The way I see it, if I buy the lower valued watch (higher price, less content) I am helping a brand create a watch I may buy years down the road that I helped fund.

Sounds silly for the guy that just wants the best value all the time but big picture it makes sense as to what these brands are trying to accomplish by moving upscale.


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Wisconsin Proud said:


> ...For example, the new Moncao 24 system costs way more to develop than they will ever recover just through sales of that watch. Same with the V4 movement. If they didnt spread costs, these watches would never be made.
> 
> It's a question the buyer has to ask - do I get a watch from another brand that may have lower cost or do I buy the other brand knowing some of my price goes towards a product I'm not buying. The way I see it, if I buy the lower valued watch (higher price, less content) I am helping a brand create a watch I may buy years down the road that I helped fund...


I can see your point, but as we digress further away from cache/cachet, this is just not the way that businesses operate.

A company such as Zenith will create and sell the Cal. 135 just like Tag and the Monaco 24 just to show that it can. It is prestige. The rationale is that if they can attract the right type of attention, more people will buy the other watches (that they can afford). They all understand that not everyone can afford the elite brand, but many will purchase the lower brands and then allude to the "just like XX". I've seen everyone do it from Audis to copper-clad cooking pans.

The bottom line is to make a profit. Many are ready to take on a loss leader if they more than break even in the end.

The fact that Oris does not do much of this makes them more desirable to someone if what they want is more watches they like and want to wear than the one or two "grail" watches.


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## zephyrnoid (Mar 12, 2011)

D N Ravenna said:


> We are talking about cachet, where one popular definition is "superior status; prestige" and not cache, which typically means "a hiding place, especially one in the ground".


You guys ought to check out some of the discussions on LinledIn.com ( If you belong). We had a loooong thread on the following subjects: Style, Luxury brands. So we delved deeply into what comprises 'Style' and what defines a 'luxury' brand. cachet is a different concept though closely related. It's about

provenience
or what I like to term, 'Good Breeding' to cull a phrase from the British aristocrats  So cachet is more than just about stylishness, association with celebrities or even the values associated with price tag ( not TAG!) ... it's about the history, the provenience of a brand. 
This is why the statement about Hamiltons and the SWATCH group is pertinent. When an elite luxury brand with cachet due to great breeding and long provenience 'sells out' to unbridled volume commercialization, the cachet becomes diluted and vanishes altogether!
We're seeing the effects of globalization and the end result will be that the watch landscape will be even more flooded that it already is with sub-par products trading almost entirely on Brand recognition.
I sold my TAG SEL because the fashion shifted up in face size and the darn thing could not keep the date straight. Otherwise, my cheap $300 Chinese made nite MX50 and Reactor watch and recently... $100 wooden watches keep plenty good time and are dispensable in the scheme of things.
Hopefully, not every brand in Switzerland will sell out to SWATCH group.

*Item of note: Do you not find it strange that SWATCH, a cheap throw-away watch brand, made enough to buy out much older brands with better cachet and provenience . That's the part that gets me, the tail is wagging the dog!


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## WnS (Feb 20, 2011)

zephyrnoid said:


> *Item of note: Do you not find it strange that SWATCH, a cheap throw-away watch brand, made enough to buy out much older brands with better cachet and provenience . That's the part that gets me, the tail is wagging the dog!


It's survival of the fittest apparently, something really lame like the Hello Kitty corporation rakes in $10B yearly (thanks to licensing agreements and millions of silly girls worldwide who buy the products). They could buy out many 'proper' companies.


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## underpar (Jan 26, 2009)

ats0281 said:


> Tag's new calibre 1887 is made by Seiko.
> Tag just bought the intellectual property from Seiko.
> And their calibre S is just battery operated - nothing like Seiko's Kinetic or Spring drive.
> I think they realised that they need to produce their own movement instead of just making more fancy cases or huge marketing with their ambassador but...
> ...


Yeah, I own several Tags but to say they are on the cutting edge of inovation is a stretch. To say their R&D is on par with Omega and Breitling is also a stretch. The best movement they offer is the cal 36 and they don't even make it. The pendulum concept movement is a gimmick and the Calibre S is a colossal failure. The majority of watches they sell are quartz or simple SW or ETA movements. That being said, they make some nice looking watches. For the large number of models they offer, very few are unappealing which cannot be said for any other brand. I buy them for their looks and feel, not their innovation.


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## mav (Jan 25, 2008)

Wisconsin Proud said:


> But please don't regurgitate the same old lame story that has been brought up for years: fashion watches, marketing company, etc. Do some research about what TAG heuer has brought out during Basel for the last 10 years and you will see significant industry awards for new developments in real watchmaking to move them into the rhelm of manufactures and moving away from being a customer brand that Oris and Hamilton continue to be. This is a long and expensive process to move up to the next level.
> 
> R&D to become a manufacture costs alot of money. These costs are spread over the entire range of their lineup. It's why a Carrera retails for $2200 and a Jazzmaster cost under $1000. See what Omega is doing with its movemnt line and the substantial price increases their watches have been hit with. The cheapest Seamaster auto is about $3500. (by the way, Omega and Breitling both advertise more than TAG Heuer and have costly ambassadors as well).


I'll begin by saying that I generally like Tag Heuer and really like the Monaco and Carrera lines. I've had two Tags in the past, an S/EL and F1. I ended up selling both. After a few years, the S/EL began accumulating humidity inside the watch and one day simply stopped working. Very disappointing. Being a huge F1 fan, I brought an orange dialed F1 but only wore it a few times. Being the only quartz watch among automatics, it just seemed lacking. My mistake.

Like it or not, Tag Heuer is an entry level luxury watch brand. Part of brand cache is exclusivity. Tag's are extremely common and sold in common low end shops, like Macy's and outlet stores for example, next to fashion watch brands.

And innovation? Despite the Calibre S "innovation", it's still a quartz watch and turned out to be a massive failure. And Tag's latest "innovation", the Calibre 1887 is nothing more than a Seiko at heart. Innovation? What innovation?

You mention that Tag is moving in a direction more closely associated with Omega. I disagree. Omega has provided real innovation in their latest products, in-house movements, use of Liquid Metal technology, ceramics, etc. Omega is also changing their retail strategy, opening boutiques rapidly and tightly controlling their supply chain and pricing.

Meanwhile Tag Heuer is being sold in Macy's. The only Tag Heuer worth owning is the Monaco and maybe the Carrera.


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## djpatrick35 (Jan 28, 2010)

There's always going to be opinions of what's better just based upon personal taste, but I think the original spirit of the post was how much cache these brands bring to the average person. On that basis, for me, it's:

TAG>ORIS>HAMILTON

Why? Because when I first started collecting watches, I already knew about Tag, and while Oris and Hamilton are kind of toss-ups for non-WIS name recognition, I think Oris watches are better overall. I own two Oris F1s and a Tag Carrera, and I'm trying to find a Hamilton I like, but I just can't...

For me, the only Tags I like are in the Carrera line as I'd like to add a Carrera Chrono to my collection with my Twin-Time and MAYBE the Gulf Monaco (MAYBE!!!), but Oris has a lot of designs that push the envelop without being gaudy. Hamilton, in my own humble opinion, has fallen into the giant watch trap as the X-Wind is the only Hammie I would consider but it's too big for my hamhock of a wrist. 

That said, this is all based on my own opinion. But for name cache, the gold medal goes to Tag with these three choices. They have a wide range of products for the entry watch freak all the way up to Rolex/IWC-level budgets. So, they are in line with Omega. For me, I personally prefer my Oris F1s to my Carrera Twin-Time, but if I want to impress someone, I'll put on the Carrera before either of my Oris F1s. And, while I keep looking, I can't find a single Hamilton to add to my growing collection even though I REALLY want to have an American automatic. (Ohh Kobold, can't you lower your prices?!)


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