# How do you know a ETA 2428 is the real thing?



## BullDawg (May 18, 2008)

You know the saying "If it is too good to be true?"

How do you know a ETA 2824 is the real thing not and a Chinese copy?

If you can post a photo better than mine that can help shed some light.

Thanks,

Bulldawg


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## bry1975 (Aug 28, 2006)

:-!:-x2428 is a fake m8 should be 2824


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## NEG (Aug 11, 2006)

I think 2428 is a typo....

If this is off the bay for about $70 then sorry but it's not an ETA2824. Its most likely a Hangzhou 6300 from China....a clone 2824 that's been stamped as a genuine one. A Genuine one will set you back $150 today.

Some of the tell tale signs are:

The the ETA logo, the clone is poorly shaped, where the gen is sharper and better defined.

The Novdiac shock housing on the gen has three cutouts the clone just one.

The gen has 25 Jewels engraved on the rotor, the clone either has a sticker or nothing...

The Barrel is polished on the clone, brushed on the gen.

The regulator markings are shallow on the clone with the + hanging on to the edge, on the gen they are deeper and clearly etched in the balance cock.

There are other tell tale signs but these are the most obvious without tearing it down


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## NEG (Aug 11, 2006)

Clone logo:











Gen logo:











Clone shock housing:











Gen shock housing:











Clone regulator markings:











Gen regulator markings:


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

The movement pictured is either a Seagull 24 or a Hangzhou 6300, both are almost exact copies of the ETA 2824-2.

Other differences:

1) The rotor should be marked along the joint "TWENTY-FIVE 25 JEWELS SWISS MADE" (or "SEVENTEEN 17") or have a manufacturer's name engraved across the rotor. When a manufacturer's name is engraved on the back without the "Swiss Made" it is highly questionable. (or if the manufacturer name is "Rolex.")

2) On the ETA the eccentric screwhead for the regulator is not flat, but curves downward toward the slot, the Chinese 2824s have flat heads with a nice sharp slot, on both the slot does not go all the way across the head. (In my opinion, the Chinese type is easier to work with, as the rounded slot in the ETA allows the screwdriver to slip if you are not paying attention.)

3) On the Chinese 2824-2 the "ETA" shield and "2824-2" is sometimes laser etched not stamped. Sometimes it appears as a series of fine dots burned into the plate. Sometime it is just not there at all.

4) On the Chinese 2824-2 both reverser wheels have two jewels, each. The ETAs have only one reverser jeweled, the other has plain holes.

5) On the Chinese 2824-2 the barrel bridge is jeweled, giving both ends of the barrel arbor a jewel.

6) Because of #5 and #6 the Chinese 2824-2 has 28 jewels, three more than the ETA.

7) On the Chineses 2824-2 the font on the date wheel font is slightly different, but replacement dials from BestFit have the same font as the Chinese movement.

8) On the Chinese 2824-2 the alignment pins for the various bridges and balanace cock are pins permanently installed in the bridge, on the ETA the alignment pins are trepanned. This is only visible when you look at the underside of the bridges and balance cock.

9) On the Chinese 2824-2 the gear teeth have a hypoid profile, where as the ETA gear teeth are trapezoidal.

(As an aside, the Chinese copies of the 2824-2 are just as good performance-wise. In some areas, they are better, even if by minicule amounts (hypoid gears, more jewels.) These Chinese movement are capable of matching the Standard grade ETA 2824-2 in all areas, except decorative finish, and that is generally only in areas not visible with the movement assembled or not visible without 5x or 10x magnification. With an plain Standard grade ETA 2824-2 going for $150, the Hangzhou 6300 or Seagull 24 is well worth the $80 or $90 you can get them for on ebay,etc,.)


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## billermo (Nov 2, 2007)

Very informative posts. Thanks for the pics.

FYI...my genuine ETA 2824-2 matches all of the genuine markings described except for the regulator markings. Mine look more like the "clone" pic. Could this be a variation from production years?


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## BullDawg (May 18, 2008)

Hi NEG,

Wow great pics. I have been looking with a 5x and 10x loop tonight and can check every one of your bullet points. Thanks, I was sure of it at first look but wanted to know exactly what to look for. So at a glance just looking at an eBay ad - Pay $150ish and there should be a brand name but not Rolex.

Hi Lysanderxiii,

Thanks you make me feel a littel better about my $79 purchase and $10 shipping and with the 10% November discount almost paid for the shipping. What is the difference between the Hangzhou 6300 or Seagull 24?

Thanks for the lesson guys, worth the money just to get such a detailed description of the clone and real 2824. How is the ETA 2892 and what is the going rate for these? Are there many of the clone floting about?

Cheers,

Bulldawg


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## NEG (Aug 11, 2006)

The ST18 is the equivalent of the 2892....pretty good movement as well.

Edit: ST26 not ST18!


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

billermo said:


> FYI...my genuine ETA 2824-2 matches all of the genuine markings described except for the regulator markings. Mine look more like the "clone" pic. Could this be a variation from production years?


Yes, there have been periods of lax QA, even at ETA.



BullDawg said:


> What is the difference between the Hangzhou 6300 or Seagull 24?


The Hangzhou and the Seagull are identical, other than possible decorative finishes, from a functional stand point, there is no difference that I can see.

The major reasons I prefer these two movements over other Chinese movements, such as the ST16 and the DG28, is replacement parts are available* for the ST24 and Hangzhou 6300 and replacement dials and hands are common.

* I have had success using parts for ETA 2824-2 on a 6300.



NEG said:


> The ST18 is the equivalent of the 2892....pretty good movement as well.


I thought the ST*26* was the ETA 2892 clone.


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## NEG (Aug 11, 2006)

You're correct lysander, it's the ST26. |>

Edit: looking at the ST18 dimensions it's very close to the 2892, the main difference is the height at 3.91mm vs 3.6mm.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

More comparisons shots:

Real ETA regulator, eccentric and balance cock:









Hangzhou, note now the slot in the eccentric goes all the way across the head, and note this one has a "Incabloc" type shock mount









Note the laser etched logo, note now it looks burnt, that is because it is:









Sometimes the older ETAs will appear to have a polished barrel. This is a real ETA:









Real ETA reverser wheels:









Hangzhou with both reversers jeweled:









Real ETA's upper barrel, no jewel:









Hangzhou with an upper barrel jewel:


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## preacher62 (Jul 15, 2008)

Ok...thanks for info. Once you determine that you have a clone...how does one determine what clone it is?


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

preacher62 said:


> Ok...thanks for info. Once you determine that you have a clone...how does one determine what clone it is?


As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter, both the Hangzhou and the Seagull are very good movements in their own right, I pity the fact they have to be sold on ebay as fake ETAs.

But within the Chinese movements there are minor differences. If you look at second image in the last post, you can see the rotor bearing splines, not all Chinese 2824s have this feature, then there is the shock system, some have an Incabloc type, some have a Novdiac type, and lastly, some have three tapering straight spokes on the balance, some have the flared spokes. The spokes on the ETA 2824-2 balance show the same variation:

Here is an ETA from Chronometrie.com, straight spokes:










Here's one from Otto Frei with flared spokes:


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## preacher62 (Jul 15, 2008)

OK...once I've determined that the two that I bought from eBay are clones, how do I determine what clone they are. Is there a mfger's mark somewhere on it. My regulator screw is not slotted all the way.

Thanks for pics.

I think 2428 is a typo....

If this is off the bay for about $70 then sorry but it's not an ETA2824. Its most likely a Hangzhou 6300 from China....a clone 2824 that's been stamped as a genuine one. A Genuine one will set you back $150 today.

Some of the tell tale signs are:

The the ETA logo, the clone is poorly shaped, where the gen is sharper and better defined.

The Novdiac shock housing on the gen has three cutouts the clone just one.

The gen has 25 Jewels engraved on the rotor, the clone either has a sticker or nothing...

The Barrel is polished on the clone, brushed on the gen.

The regulator markings are shallow on the clone with the + hanging on to the edge, on the gen they are deeper and clearly etched in the balance cock.

There are other tell tale signs but these are the most obvious without tearing it down[/quote]


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## preacher62 (Jul 15, 2008)

Thanks very much for the detailed info. I have been fascinated by the 60 year old technology of these watches. I have purchased a couple of these and have built watches using case, dial and hands from Otto Frei. I really love them but they drive me crazy. When you wear it it runs at a speed and when you take it off it runs at another speed...depending on if it is 9 down, dial up, etc. I have four automatic movements and you must get to know each one, individually. One of the ETA clones like to be treated one way and one another.

Does anyone have any sources for stock type watch cases and dials other that Frei?


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