# cosc certificate



## brian45acp (May 15, 2014)

Is it standard for GM dealers to remove the documentation for the cosc? According to the bremont manual the warranty card is the cosc and must be sent to bremont to register the watch. Since it wasnt bought at an AD I figure this is why it want included with the watch.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Even if you buy a Bremont brand new from an AD, the COSC certificate is not included with the watch. If a Bremont owner wants the COSC certificate, then the owner will have to request it from Bremont. In order to request the COSC certificate, you will have to register your watch with Bremont either electronically by scanning your warranty card or by mailing it to them:

Register my Bremont â€" Bremont Watch Company


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## brian45acp (May 15, 2014)

thank you. I am currently chatting with an amazon rep. 

So what is involved with obtaining this cert or is it even necessary? Seems I would need to have the warranty card to activate this COSC certificate. Since there is no warranty card from a GD I guess that is the difference between buying AD vs GD. 

This watch came with no warranty card. In the manual it states that it is there and to be filled out and sent in. So thats the part I was questioning since I dont have any of that. The watch does appear perfect though.

There is also no sticker on the case back but no signs of having been worn. No skin in the grooves of the band or finger marks etc. Looks very clean. The rep from amazon states that these watches are all inspected by amazon jewelers before being shipped which is pretty cool if thats true. Makes it a pretty secure purchase knowing it had some additional quality control vs a company like amazon simply boxing and shipping items


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

brian45acp said:


> thank you. I am currently chatting with an amazon rep.
> 
> So what is involved with obtaining this cert or is it even necessary?


The COSC certificate just shows that the movement is chronometer certified. It is not absolutely necessary to have the COSC certificate, but some people want it for the sake of completeness and having all papers that go with the watch. Also, since you did not purchase the Bremont from an AD, I'm assuming that the warranty card is blank and not stamped. If that's the case, then you will not be entitled to Bremont's warranty coverage, although a warranty may be provided by Amazon instead. I am also not sure if Bremont would even give you the COSC certificate since it was purchased via grey dealer. You may want to ask Bremont about that.

EDIT: Just saw your updated response regarding the no warranty card with the watch. That is typical when purchasing from the grey market. Unfortunately, you will not be entitled to warranty coverage through Bremont, and my guess is that Bremont will not likely send you the COSC certificate either since they need to see your warranty card in order to send out the COSC certificate.


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## brian45acp (May 15, 2014)

I love the watch and if I saved $2100 I can live with out the piece of paper for sure. I just wanted to confirm my purchase from Amazon was complete and all documents were included. Seems their jewelers understand this process and likely remove this card as part of the agreement selling as non authorized dealers. 

I appreciate your quick responses. I thanked the amazon rep with your help confirming this. I dont think its something they would understand as they arent specialists in any one particular product and this seems to be a pretty deep issue.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

brian45acp said:


> I love the watch and if I saved $2100 I can live with out the piece of paper for sure. I just wanted to confirm my purchase from Amazon was complete and all documents were included. Seems their jewelers understand this process and likely remove this card as part of the agreement selling as non authorized dealers.
> 
> I appreciate your quick responses. I thanked the amazon rep with your help confirming this. I dont think its something they would understand as they arent specialists in any one particular product and this seems to be a pretty deep issue.


The one thing to worry about when purchasing a Bremont via grey market is the warranty. Did you find out if Amazon warranties the watch? To be honest, I've heard that Amazon outsources their watch warranties and have heard some people complain about various aspects their warranty service, whereas Bremont is known for their great customer service and quick turnaround time. It's always a bit of a trade off when purchasing via grey dealer as opposed to authorized dealer.


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## brian45acp (May 15, 2014)

Amazon uses Asurion. I would likely just use Bremont if needed.

Gemnation replied saying they do include the cosc cert but based on what you are saying I think they aren't accurate regarding Bremont watches. I would like to know for certain because I could return to Amazon and purchase from gemnation if it's worth having complete documents assuming they are accurate in stating they provide the cert


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

brian45acp said:


> Amazon uses Asurion. I would likely just use Bremont if needed.
> 
> Gemnation replied saying they do include the cosc cert but based on what you are saying I think they aren't accurate regarding Bremont watches. I would like to know for certain because I could return to Amazon and purchase from gemnation if it's worth having complete documents assuming they are accurate in stating they provide the cert


Well, it depends on how they source the watch. I would venture to guess that Amazon most likely purchased your watch brand new from excess AD stock, which is why the warranty card (and therefore the COSC certificate) was not included. Assuming Gemnation is being truthful about including the COSC certificate with the watch, then they may have purchased it pre-owned with the COSC certificate already requested by the previous owner. You can request that Gemnation send you some photos of all the papers and accessories that accompany the watch. Make sure that you ask them for a clear picture of the warranty card, including serial number, and also make sure that serial number matches the inscription on the caseback. If they're unable or unwilling to provide you with these photos, then I would take that as a clear sign to stay away from them.


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## brian45acp (May 15, 2014)

Gemnation giving very generic info. I replied stating that it was interesting they had the cosc being that I just learned it is only sent out after the warranty card which comes from an AD is registered on Bremonts web site. They replied back again saying they dont include any warranty card. I guess they are just giving generic responses until further questioned. 

I did some searching on the forum and it seems the procedure is as you said. register with Bremont online and they send cosc info and goodies like hat and sticker etc. So I am good to go with what I have from Amazon and based on gemnation responses am a little skeptical. I dont like them saying one thing then changing it but not exactly elaborating on the fact they gave wrong info to begin with. Imagine getting the watch then contacting them regarding the promise of cosc cert which obviously doesnt exist with the watch no matter where its purchased.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

brian45acp said:


> Gemnation giving very generic info. I replied stating that it was interesting they had the cosc being that I just learned it is only sent out after the warranty card which comes from an AD is registered on Bremonts web site. They replied back again saying they dont include any warranty card. I guess they are just giving generic responses until further questioned.
> 
> I did some searching on the forum and it seems the procedure is as you said. register with Bremont online and they send cosc info and goodies like hat and sticker etc. So I am good to go with what I have from Amazon and based on gemnation responses am a little skeptical. I dont like them saying one thing then changing it but not exactly elaborating on the fact they gave wrong info to begin with. Imagine getting the watch then contacting them regarding the promise of cosc cert which obviously doesnt exist with the watch no matter where its purchased.


Can't say that I'm surprised. It's really a mixed bag with grey dealers. I've heard all kind of stories when purchasing grey, both good and bad. I personally would not purchase from some of the more popular grey dealers, such as Gemnation or Jomashop, because you never know what you're going to get, and if the watch winds up going haywire, you're stuck with their own warranty. There have been some really doozies on here with people going through, say, a Jomashop warranty-not exactly the most pleasant of experiences. Suffice it to say, if I don't go the AD route, then I'd much rather purchased pre-owned from a private seller with a valid manufacturer's warranty.

Also, a grey dealer's primary motivation is to profit, which makes sense that Gemnation is giving you the runaround. An AD is also motivated by profit, but to a lesser extent I think. A grey dealer just wants your money and then says "bye Felicia," so the incentive to provide quality aftersales service is not as strong as that of an AD. An AD, especially the smaller and independent ones, has more of a vested interest to build meaningful relationships with their customers in order to earn their repeat business down the road. And that means providing quality aftercare service when necessary.


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## tobytobes (Jul 17, 2011)

You can get the watch serviced by bremont for around 600 dollars then you will have a two year warranty from them and still saved 1500 dollars. Also if u send it in for service they will send you the cosc of I request it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fyego (Dec 26, 2015)

I am in the same situation. I got my Bremont through eBay with a warranty card that hadn't been filled out. I contacted Bremont and they registered it but wouldn't give the COSC certificate since it wasn't purchased from an authorized dealer.

I was hoping that when I sent it in for servicing that they would give the certificate. At that time they can check the outer serial number with the internal COSC number and verify it. I haven't asked them about that, but I think it is beneficial to them and everyone who owns a Bremont that they give out the cert when they verify the watch. That way the resale price won't be undermined. If people question the watch on resale due to lack of a cert that would lower resale prices.

So my question is how do you know that they will give out the cert on servicing?

Thanks, Fred


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Fyego said:


> So my question is how do you know that they will give out the cert on servicing?


Simply ask Bremont if they would be willing to give you the COSC certificate upon servicing of the watch.


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## brian45acp (May 15, 2014)

im trying to find a reliable method of checking the watches accuracy but not having much luck. I tried the hairspring app and some other similar app. I think the tech on this watch is so great that the movement being protected and floating, from what I understand, messes with these apps ability to hear the tics and make a calculation. Doing it the sync method with using a web site for the world time clock matched with my computers clock I hacked the seconds hand on the watch and it seems mine is likely plus 3-4 seconds a day. I havent worn it a full day or even 12hrs yet though so its not a true test just yet. 

The hairspring app seems to like the headsets microphone taped to the case back and the watch on its side. I get good results that way and in that position it looks like +1 sec. Its interesting to see how the different positions affect the accuracy. It doesnt like to be face down or face up but that makes sense assuming they adjust it the least in those positions being that your wrist wont ever be perfectly right side up or down for very long. 

Do you guys know a better method of checking the accuracy?

What would you guys say is acceptable accuracy? In my mind the closer its getting to +6 secs a day I am not going to be happy. The great thing is with Amazon the return policy is amazing should it turn out that the watch is outside COSC standards. I dont think it is but I need a more reliable method of checking accuracy.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

> I would likely just use Bremont if needed.


Agree. Amazon's third party warranties can be hit or miss when it comes to repairs or issues.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

brian45acp said:


> im trying to find a reliable method of checking the watches accuracy but not having much luck. I tried the hairspring app and some other similar app. I think the tech on this watch is so great that the movement being protected and floating, from what I understand, messes with these apps ability to hear the tics and make a calculation. Doing it the sync method with using a web site for the world time clock matched with my computers clock I hacked the seconds hand on the watch and it seems mine is likely plus 3-4 seconds a day. I havent worn it a full day or even 12hrs yet though so its not a true test just yet.
> 
> The hairspring app seems to like the headsets microphone taped to the case back and the watch on its side. I get good results that way and in that position it looks like +1 sec. Its interesting to see how the different positions affect the accuracy. It doesnt like to be face down or face up but that makes sense assuming they adjust it the least in those positions being that your wrist wont ever be perfectly right side up or down for very long.
> 
> ...


If you really want to get serious about testing a watch's accuracy, then there's the Lepsi Watch Scope:

How Precise is Your Watch? Test It with the Lepsi Watch Scope â€º WatchTime - USA's No.1 Watch Magazine
LEPSI

It's sort of like a stethoscope for your watch.

Anything within COSC specifications (-4 to +6 seconds deviation in a 24 hour period) is acceptable since the watch is chronometer certified after all. But the other thing to keep in mind is that there usually is a "break in period" in which a new watch may settle in. So the watch's accuracy may seem to deviate for the first six months or so of ownership, and will then then settle in and the accuracy will become more consistent.


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## brian45acp (May 15, 2014)

Thanks for that. I had wondered if there was a break in period. It made sense to me that there would be since it is a spring and gears etc that need to settle down. When it arrived it had the crown out as it should so I know it hasnt been running until I received it. 

It seems to me that its quite good so I am going to check it once more today after 6hrs of wear time and then just enjoy it. This seriously is one great looking watch. The bezel is fantastic as well. My Damasko is a 60 click and is amazing but for a 120 click this Bremont is so solid. I won the lottery on my Damasko that sucker is like 1 sec a day from day one. Unfortunately I promised myself I would sell off my others for this Bremont but I am not sad being that with having this Bremont I want to enjoy it most and wear it daily.


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## TigerDore (Jul 18, 2015)

When getting in this price range, COSC is very important to me. I think that accuracy is part of what you are paying for.


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## brian45acp (May 15, 2014)

honestly it seems like the whole COSC thing is kind of a joke. It doesnt seem all that uncommon to have even cheaper watches be in -4 to +6 and that is a pretty wide range. My supermarine I think is right around +4 secs a day. I am also realizing its some what of a lottery as to what you get. So long as it arrives with in COSC not much more can be expected. In addition to that its said that the movement needs to break in so how can you really tell what you have when you get it anyway? I have also been told the best method for accuracy is to wear it a while then after break in have a watch maker adjust it to be more accurate but from the get go there isnt a better way to accomplish this.

https://toolwatch.io/
this web site is the closest I could come to accurate readings but for some reason I think there is an issue with it. I enter the 24hr time format and get crazy readings. It sucks because you have to wait 12hrs between readings so there is no quick way to know what was entered in incorrectly until the next go around.


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## ike2112 (Jul 27, 2015)

There's two ways of looking at it. 
First of all, Bremont want to protect their brand - they're pretty pushy about it. For a company still so relatively new, and kind of niche, its surprising (one AD I spoke to thought it was bordering on them being cheeky!) for them to demand brand protection both on the high street and online. They do not sell to Amazon in the UK, and they are very strict on UK dealers around tracking the serial numbers of their European stock. I guess given there are deals to be had in the US, they either found it more difficult to enforce.
But as they wish to protect their brand, honestly I don't think they would take too kindly towards helping you in future given you have gone grey market.

On the other hand, every Bremont watch is COSC. I have a Ball Worldtimer which is COSC but many of theirs are not, so its handy to have the certification and evidence there. Its something else to mention when selling, and another reason for someone to potentially buy. With Bremont though, its a question nobody would ever need ask and something already taken into account when buying/selling as everyone knows they are all COSC. Its partly why the cost is high - some dealers don't add the full cost of COSC to the individual watch, they'll smooth it out a little bit across a range. With Bremont every watch is checked, so its added to the manufacturing cost.

This is really only a consideration if you wish to sell in future. If you want to just keep it and wear it, be safe in the knowledge that as its a Bremont, its COSC - not only that but its robust and looks great.

Just a note on the "breaking-in" advice. I am sure this is a myth. Your watch was already tested before anyone wore it, and had to meet the COSC conditions, so there's absolutely no reason you would then have to wear it a few weeks before testing yourself.
The only thing I would add to this, is that testing it properly is a mundate task. You need to average out the angle of wear, so in reality that means changing the position of the watch at least hourly whilst also keeping power in the watch, and tracking it over a period of at least 24 hours but ideally more than two full cycles and taking an average. So if we say 3 days, that means moving your watch at least 72 times and winding it probably 3-4 times.



Fyego said:


> I am in the same situation. I got my Bremont through eBay with a warranty card that hadn't been filled out. I contacted Bremont and they registered it but wouldn't give the COSC certificate since it wasn't purchased from an authorized dealer.
> 
> I was hoping that when I sent it in for servicing that they would give the certificate. At that time they can check the outer serial number with the internal COSC number and verify it. I haven't asked them about that, but I think it is beneficial to them and everyone who owns a Bremont that they give out the cert when they verify the watch. That way the resale price won't be undermined. If people question the watch on resale due to lack of a cert that would lower resale prices.


I don't think this is beneficial to them.
If they give out the certificate, they are giving buyers who lean towards grey market dealers, a chance to get the watch and all its AD-related benefits just by getting a service. As someone else pointed out, you could save $2.2k then pay $600 for a service, get the COSC cert and a new warranty, and still be $1500 better off.
Yes their resale price takes a dent - but only for resale of grey market watches which technically will be passing to the 4th set of hands by then (the AD, the grey dealer, and now the seller being the 3 prior 'owners').


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## Fyego (Dec 26, 2015)

ike2112 said:


> I don't think this is beneficial to them.
> If they give out the certificate, they are giving buyers who lean towards grey market dealers, a chance to get the watch and all its AD-related benefits just by getting a service. As someone else pointed out, you could save $2.2k then pay $600 for a service, get the COSC cert and a new warranty, and still be $1500 better off.
> Yes their resale price takes a dent - but only for resale of grey market watches which technically will be passing to the 4th set of hands by then (the AD, the grey dealer, and now the seller being the 3 prior 'owners').


I'd differ on that - the resale value is an important factor in the desirability of a watch and keeping it high is very beneficial to them and every Bremont owner. If one could buy a used Bremont for less than $1000 or more realistically less than $2000 then it becomes hard to justify a high new price or a high resale price with cert. The higher the resale - the higher the perceived value of the brand and the higher the demand for new watches. So anything that makes it easier for anyone to sell at a higher price is beneficial to all of the Bremont world.


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## ike2112 (Jul 27, 2015)

On the contrary part of the desirability of a watch for me is having some sense of security that some other guy isn't going to pay 35% less then me without being inconvenienced in some way and having taken a risk or three along the way.

I do not wish to see others who have gone grey-market, get the same customer service, warranty and COSC certification that I paid good money for.

The resale cost of a watch is only affected for those who went grey in the first place. The best way to keep resale values high, is to not have your brand selling on the grey market in the first place, which I know for a fact Bremont are going out of their way to ensure in Europe (they have had legal people work on it in the UK).


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## Fyego (Dec 26, 2015)

I agree with you completely. Bremont needs to work hard to stop the gray market and I'm glad to hear it is. They know their market well and produce great watches.

Since they can trace the dealers selling on the gray market via the serial numbers, it should be easy to cut these ADs off. But my understanding is that some of this gray market watches come from ADs that go bankrupt and their assets are being liquidated. There is no way of stopping that. I guess they could repurchase the watches from ADs that go bankrupt to protect the market which is what they should do.

I also understand that if you never sell your watch the price of resales may not seem relevant. But every brand value is truly determined by its resale value.

So I do hope they do everything to stop watches getting onto the gray market. I know they are taking all the right marketing steps and they are building great watches - so the future for Bremont looks great!


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

ike2112 said:


> There's two ways of looking at it.
> First of all, Bremont want to protect their brand - they're pretty pushy about it. For a company still so relatively new, and kind of niche, its surprising (one AD I spoke to thought it was bordering on them being cheeky!) for them to demand brand protection both on the high street and online. They do not sell to Amazon in the UK, and they are very strict on UK dealers around tracking the serial numbers of their European stock. I guess given there are deals to be had in the US, they either found it more difficult to enforce.
> But as they wish to protect their brand, honestly I don't think they would take too kindly towards helping you in future given you have gone grey market.





ike2112 said:


> The resale cost of a watch is only affected for those who went grey in the first place. The best way to keep resale values high, is to not have your brand selling on the grey market in the first place, which I know for a fact Bremont are going out of their way to ensure in Europe (they have had legal people work on it in the UK).





Fyego said:


> I agree with you completely. Bremont needs to work hard to stop the gray market and I'm glad to hear it is.
> 
> Since they can trace the dealers selling on the gray market via the serial numbers, it should be easy to cut these ADs off. But my understanding is that some of this gray market watches come from ADs that go bankrupt and their assets are being liquidated. There is no way of stopping that. I guess they could repurchase the watches from ADs that go bankrupt to protect the market which is what they should do.
> 
> ...


As Bremont continues to grow in popularity and moves away from being more of a niche brand to a mainstream one, which I personally think is already happening, their watches will inevitably and invariably appear on the various grey market channels. Just go to Watchrecon and look up your known grey market dealers. You'll see all the big players sold on the grey market, everything from Patek to Omega and everything else in between. Despite Bremont's best efforts, or any major brand's for that matter, having your watches end up on the grey market is simply the cost of doing business. As fiercely as Bremont and others strive for brand protection, and justifiably so, there's just no way getting around it-their timepieces will end up going grey whether they like it or not. This is especially true as Bremont's retail and distribution outlets continue to expand-the larger the distribution and retailer network, the more Bremont timepieces you will see on the grey market. Bremont is constantly adding authorized dealers to their ever growing roster, and that simply provides more of an avenue for the grey market to get their hands on dealer stock.

There are only a handful of brands that enjoy a fairly high resale value when their watches end up on the grey market-Rolex and Patek are two such major players that quickly come to mind. Many other brands, Bremont included, are not privileged enough to be part of this 1%. Who knows, maybe someday Bremont will eventually find themselves as part of the upper echelon of the horology food chain, but today is certainly not the day and they have such a long way to go. So it's a bit of a double-edged sword: As a brand, Bremont will undoubtedly continue to grow and gain in popularity, which of course is a good thing for them; however, as that happens, more and more of their watches will find their way on the grey market by way of an expanding distribution network thereby lowering the brand's resale, and in turn, perceived value.

I'm not just picking on Bremont here. Many, many other brands have to contend with this very same issue, and I again say, it's simply the cost of doing business.



Fyego said:


> I'd differ on that - the resale value is an important factor in the desirability of a watch and keeping it high is very beneficial to them and every Bremont owner. If one could buy a used Bremont for less than $1000 or more realistically less than $2000 then it becomes hard to justify a high new price or a high resale price with cert. The higher the resale - the higher the perceived value of the brand and the higher the demand for new watches. So anything that makes it easier for anyone to sell at a higher price is beneficial to all of the Bremont world.


Also, just because XYZ brand suffers from poor resale and perceived value, doesn't necessarily mean that brand will lower its retail prices. There are many a brand that have this problem, but will still continue to overinflate their watches' MSRP. Is Bremont one such brand employing this particular practice? Well, I'll leave that question for the reader to answer.


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## tobytobes (Jul 17, 2011)

If the Grey market watch does not have the cosc then it's odds on the watches are being supplied by bremont themselves to the grey market delears. Any other dealer would keep the cosc in the box. The idea that bremont have be sort of clout to strip ADs of their dealership is laughable. No authorities dealer who has a successful chain of shops is going to really care if bremont phone them up to complain. The power sits with the shops not bremont. Bremont have to woo them not vice versa. Of course it is the reverse for brands like Rolex. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

tobytobes said:


> If the Grey market watch does not have the cosc then it's odds on the watches are being supplied by bremont themselves to the grey market delears. Any other dealer would keep the cosc in the box. The idea that bremont have be sort of clout to strip ADs of their dealership is laughable. No authorities dealer who has a successful chain of shops is going to really care if bremont phone them up to complain. The power sits with the shops not bremont. Bremont have to woo them not vice versa. Of course it is the reverse for brands like Rolex.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As previously mentioned, regardless if a Bremont watch is sold via authorized channels or the grey market, the COSC certificate is not included with the watch. If the watch is sold via authorized agent, then the COSC certification would have to be requested by the customer who purchased that watch. The buyer would have to register their new watch with Bremont by showing them their duly filled out warranty card, and then Bremont would mail out the certificate to the owner. While most COSC certified watches are accompanied with the certificate straight from the dealer, that's obviously not the case with Bremont. I suspect that Bremont employs this tactic in order to keep tighter control on their stock, as well as to see who's purchasing their watches.


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## brian45acp (May 15, 2014)

There is no such thing in my mind of higher resale just because it was bought at an AD. Bremont is being sold on Amazon as well as GD for huge discounts. Selling today on watchrecon for $3000 used when new AD prices are $5400 sounds great but the problem is if I bought mine brand new from a GD at $3000 new the used price is going to now mean $2500 or so. Those who paid for the paperwork which in this case is only the COSC cert I doubt will be able to ask $4500 and get a buyer just because it was from an AD when that same potential buyer can hit up Amazon for BNIB at $3000

Im only a newbie here but its quite hard to convince me that I should pay $2200 more then what I did just to say I got it from an AD and not consider the resale compared to those who paid $2200 less for BNIB minus a piece of paper. Huge discounts like that really push people away from AD. If it were more like $500 to ensure I have a factory warranty and all the papers I would have done it. For $2k plus that aint even a question of whats the best option.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

brian45acp said:


> There is no such thing in my mind of higher resale just because it was bought at an AD. Bremont is being sold on Amazon as well as GD for huge discounts. Selling today on watchrecon for $3000 used when new AD prices are $5400 sounds great but the problem is if I bought mine brand new from a GD at $3000 new the used price is going to now mean $2500 or so. Those who paid for the paperwork which in this case is only the COSC cert I doubt will be able to ask $4500 and get a buyer just because it was from an AD when that same potential buyer can hit up Amazon for BNIB at $3000
> 
> Im only a newbie here but its quite hard to convince me that I should pay $2200 more then what I did just to say I got it from an AD and not consider the resale compared to those who paid $2200 less for BNIB minus a piece of paper. Huge discounts like that really push people away from AD. If it were more like $500 to ensure I have a factory warranty and all the papers I would have done it. For $2k plus that aint even a question of whats the best option.


I would agree with this, but up to a point. If you were to sell your Supermarine in the fairly recent future and priced it at around the $2500 mark, barring the COSC certificate but with an otherwise complete and mint set, I don't think you would have a tough time selling it. As someone else mentioned, the argument that every single Bremont watch is COSC certified and therefore makes the certification unnecessary personally rings a bit of truth for all intents and purposes. Not to mention that you own the bial dial version, which I think many potential buyers might find appealing-COSC certificate included or not-since I don't see that particular version popping up very often on the pre-owned market.

Where it can be somewhat problematic, however, and what I've alluded to before, is the warranty issue regardless if you decide to keep the watch for the long haul or if you decide to pass it on to the next owner. If you decide to keep the watch, then you would have to go through Asurion should a warranty repair ever become necessary. If you decide to sell it, then you would have to disclose the fact that the watch carries no manufacturer's warranty-well, at least you _should_ disclose that bit of information to the next potential owner. I would personally much rather go through Bremont for warranty service than through an outsourced warranty service like Asurion, especially given some of the stories I've heard about them. Granted, not all Asurion warranty experiences are negative, but another factor to consider is that I would have absolutely no idea who would be repairing my watch, nor could I predict the quality of the repair as well as the post-repair condition of the watch, both mechanical and cosmetic. Simply put, I wouldn't trust a third-party warranty service, and so I wouldn't be willing to roll the dice and risk either a hit-or-miss experience. With a Bremont warranty, however, there is a proven track record of consistency, and this is speaking from both direct, personal experience as well as from anecdotal accounts. I know for a fact that the watchmakers who assembled the watch to begin with would also be the ones repairing it, and it would come back to me in pristine condition, along with top notch customer service to boot. Also, another thing to keep in mind is that Asurion offers a two-year warranty, whereas an AD-purchased watch will offer a three-year Bremont warranty.

The bottomline for me is that there are some watches I would be comfortable purchasing from the grey market without a proper manufacturer's warranty, and there are some in which I would not be comfortable purchasing. Bremont falls into the latter camp because they are a relatively new and expanding brand. I know that they were previously sorting through some quality control issues, and quite a few of their customers, myself included, had to send back our watches for repair under warranty service. From what I understand, these quality control issues have since been largely resolved, but that is yet something else to consider when you're talking about the merits of a manufacturer's warranty vs. an outsourced one.


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## ike2112 (Jul 27, 2015)

brian45acp said:


> There is no such thing in my mind of higher resale just because it was bought at an AD. Bremont is being sold on Amazon as well as GD for huge discounts. Selling today on watchrecon for $3000 used when new AD prices are $5400 sounds great but the problem is if I bought mine brand new from a GD at $3000 new the used price is going to now mean $2500 or so. Those who paid for the paperwork which in this case is only the COSC cert I doubt will be able to ask $4500 and get a buyer just because it was from an AD when that same potential buyer can hit up Amazon for BNIB at $3000
> 
> Im only a newbie here but its quite hard to convince me that I should pay $2200 more then what I did just to say I got it from an AD and not consider the resale compared to those who paid $2200 less for BNIB minus a piece of paper. Huge discounts like that really push people away from AD. If it were more like $500 to ensure I have a factory warranty and all the papers I would have done it. For $2k plus that aint even a question of whats the best option.


No you're right there's no standard concept of higher resale just because original purchase was from an AD. But if I was buying a watch second-hand, and the seller had no warranty card and no COSC, I'd wonder about its origins and would probably not buy. If the seller had original box, receipt, warranty and COSC then it all feels more comfortable and as if the seller is someone who cares about watches and about that sort of thing.

I agree though if you can get a $2.2k discount then for many that's obvious. I might have gone for it myself if it were possible for me, but its not as I'm in the UK where Bremont have been able to retain an element of control and have prevented sale on amazon.co.uk. They are keeping close control of European stock. Why they're not doing the same in the US I don't know - perhaps its the different laws or policies, perhaps its harder to keep track/control, or perhaps they feel its just part of the US market and they need to embrace grey sellers there.

I have a grey market watch, an Armand Nicolet where I weighed up the cost differences, downsides and risks, and decided I would rather go grey market than dealer. Its always a viable option to consider. But personally for Bremont I went the AD route, albeit I didn't pay ticket price either.

PS. What is GD?


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## ike2112 (Jul 27, 2015)

tobytobes said:


> If the Grey market watch does not have the cosc then it's odds on the watches are being supplied by bremont themselves to the grey market delears. Any other dealer would keep the cosc in the box. The idea that bremont have be sort of clout to strip ADs of their dealership is laughable. No authorities dealer who has a successful chain of shops is going to really care if bremont phone them up to complain. The power sits with the shops not bremont. Bremont have to woo them not vice versa. Of course it is the reverse for brands like Rolex.


That is the case with the majority of the mid-market sellers, but with Bremont they withold the COSC and registration and only provide it when you send in a card that is stamped by the dealer. This is their way of keeping some element of control.
They also are quite picky, in the UK anyway, of what dealers they partner with - strangely to the point where Chisholm Hunter are selling them, but Barclays Diamonds are not, even though it is the same company under a different name. They specified this to that shop. There are only 3 stores in my entire country that sell Bremont.
Shops do wish to retain a good relationship with Bremont, because the set pricing helps them too - their own mark-up is 70% higher than what they take on a Raymond Weil, for example. As a result they cannot offer great discounts on Bremont (although if you use an AD and have repeat business, they'll do something for you) but they will throw in something else - I got a piece of jewellery for next to nothing when buying my watch. So a shop, in UK at least, wouldn't want to lose the Bremont licence as its making good money for them. Rolex is a bit more pricey, and to be honest I rarely see Rolex in high street in the UK, they are mostly boutique along with PP over here.


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## awildermode (Mar 23, 2015)

Vig2000 said:


> Where it can be somewhat problematic, however, and what I've alluded to before, is the warranty regardless if you decide to keep the watch for the long haul or if you decide to pass it on to the next owner. I would personally much rather go through Bremont for warranty service than through an outsourced warranty service like Asurion, especially given some of the stories I've heard about Asurion. Granted, not all Asurion warranty experiences are negative, but another factor to consider is that I would have absolutely no idea who would be repairing my watch and what kind of condition it would be returned back to me. With a Bremont warranty, however, and this is speaking from direct experience, I know for a fact that the watchmakers who assembled the watch to begin with would also be the ones repairing it, and it would come back to me in pristine condition, along with top notch customer service to boot. Also, another thing to keep in mind is that Asurion offers a two-year warranty, whereas an AD-purchased watch will offer a three-year Bremont warranty.


I was told by a Bremont Rep that the watches are easy to work on, and any decent watchmaker can work on them. The issue is with the Bremont case, as it is takes additional training/knowledge to disassemble/assemble it correctly. Still, like you mentioned, I would rather the watchmakers that first assembled the watch be the same ones repairing them.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

awildermode said:


> I was told by a Bremont Rep that the watches are easy to work on, and any decent watchmaker can work on them. The issue is with the Bremont case, as it is takes additional training/knowledge to disassemble/assemble it correctly. Still, like you mentioned, I would rather the watchmakers that first assembled the watch be the same ones repairing them.


That's true. This presents another option: Should a mechanical issue ever present itself in the future, Asurion or another third-party warranty service can be bypassed altogether, and a trusted, competent watchmaker can carry out the repair instead. With the exception of their proprietary movement, Bremont uses beefed up ETA (and now Sellita) movements, so an experienced watchmaker should have no problem with that. A downside is that repair through a watchmaker would be at cost, whereas an approved warranty claim would be free of charge through Asurion. Nevertheless, I would rather have peace of mind and pay a trusted watchmaker to repair my timepiece instead of rolling the dice with Asurion.


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