# Sea-Gull ST25 movement durability and acuracy compared to ETA? G.Gerlach watch



## Suncoast (Jan 25, 2010)

Over on the affordables forum there is quite a thread going in regards to a new watch made in poland but using a Sea-Gull ST-25 movement https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/g-gerlach-made-poland-642051.html they are made by g.Gerlach and look very nice and very well made. I''m just wondering if anyone from the Chinese board with experience with the Sea-Gull ST25 movements can comment on the accuracy and durability aspect of these movements when compared to other swiss or japanese movements. The watches end up being @ $320.00 shipped anywhere in the world. Is this a lot for an ST25 movement based watch? Comments?


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## RuffRydas (Mar 19, 2011)

$320 for an ST25 watch isn't too bad, in fact, it's right in line with what Seagull (the manufacture of the movement) charges for their watches:

-SeaGull USA

-SeaGull USA

-SeaGull USA

I'm actually surprised that G. Gerlach used this specific movement as it is more commonly used for open-heart watches. The movement itself appears quite reliable, Seagull produces many difference variations of this movement with multiple functions and those have been known to have some minor issues, but as a time-only watch in the case of the G. Gerlach, it should be worry free. Relative durability of the movement against Swiss or Japanese counterparts will be hard to judge as these haven't been in production for nearly as long so it'll be hard to find a reliable track record.


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## IanC (Jul 3, 2010)

ST25 is also commonly used in Parnis watches, commonly found for around $100.


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## Defiant4Ever (Dec 28, 2011)

Sea-Gull M171S M172S automatic watch flywheel retrograde power reserve Seagull | eBay

open-heart ST25 for $245. I bought the M172S. One of my favourites.


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## Reno (Sep 23, 2008)

Suncoast said:


> Over on the affordables forum there is quite a thread going in regards to a new watch made in poland but using a Sea-Gull ST-25 movement https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/g-gerlach-made-poland-642051.html they are made by g.Gerlach and look very nice and very well made. I''m just wondering if anyone from the Chinese board with experience with the Sea-Gull ST25 movements can comment on the accuracy and durability aspect of these movements when compared to other swiss or japanese movements. The watches end up being @ $320.00 shipped anywhere in the world. Is this a lot for an ST25 movement based watch? Comments?


I have a *TIMEX* SL with this movement ; got it in Sept 2009&#8230;

It's an _Hebdomas-type_ open-heart, 









with two complications : power reserve + date retrograde










I've been _very_ impressed by the ST-25. And the finish is excellent.









_Beijing stripes_ on the rotor & _perlage_ on the bridges |>

According to the chinese wiki : Open heart - Chinese Watch Industry Wiki



> The highest grade Chinese open-heart currently is the Sea-Gull ST25.


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## dkbs (Nov 2, 2008)

ST-25 was originally designed to 28800bph but due to beat error problem, it was reduced to a non-standard 23400bph by modifing number of tooth on the gears. However, pallet, escape wheel remain at 28800bph design. 

ST-25 copies some Rolex idea, the winding and auto-bridge have very rough design. 

ST-25 usually can achieve stable 5s/d accuracy, but I have no data about its reliability.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

IanC said:


> ST25 is also commonly used in Parnis watches, commonly found for around $100.


Although I suspect no Parnis has ever had a case of comparable quality to the G. Gerlach watch.


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## IanC (Jul 3, 2010)

Chascomm said:


> Although I suspect no Parnis has ever had a case of comparable quality to the G. Gerlach watch.


Well you are paying about 3-4x as much, so i would expect the quality to be better.

But how do you judge the quality of a case anyway?


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## SquishyPanda (Mar 13, 2008)

IanC said:


> But how do you judge the quality of a case anyway?


Usually it's in the details. Is the crystal mounted in the case with some sort of lock ring, or is it just press-fitted, which is easier to machine and assemble, but theoretically not as water-resistant? Does the screw-down crown operate smoothly? Does the bezel click feel solid or is it wobbly? How clean is the machining around the lugs?

Little details that, on their own, aren't that big a deal but added up they make the difference between, say, a Bagelsport Sub and a real Sub (as sort of an extreme example).


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## lipla (Jul 6, 2011)

dkbs said:


> ST-25 was originally designed to 28800bph but due to beat error problem, it was reduced to a non-standard 23400bph by modifing number of tooth on the gears.


I don't want to destroy a myth here but current production ST-25 movements definitely run at 21600bph and not 23400. I just checked my forum watch and as you can see from the waveform shown below, it clearly beats 6 times per second which corresponds to 21600 beats per hour (6 * 60 * 60).


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## camouflage (Aug 29, 2009)

ST25 seems to be relatively quite accurate, because I have Sea-Gull 172s and it keeps better time, than my older Myota 8215 or Seiko Monster and probably 10 times better then Vostok Amphibia. About durability I dont have an idea, because it's my first Chinese watch. This Polish watch looks good, but I'm a bit surprised, that they didn't make their own copy-movement, because Poland is usually called "European China"


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

That ST25 is a well built and reliable movement. However, for over $300 you almost get an ETA in a different watch.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

camouflage said:


> ST25 seems to be relatively quite accurate, because I have Sea-Gull 172s and it keeps better time, than my older Myota 8215 or Seiko Monster and probably 10 times better then Vostok Amphibia. About durability I dont have an idea, because it's my first Chinese watch. This Polish watch looks good, but I'm a bit surprised, that they didn't make their own copy-movement, because Poland is usually called "European China"


It's not quite that easy to reverse-engineer a mechanical watch movement. And I doubt that G.Gerlach has the millions of euros needed to buy and set up the required tooling.


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## giodoc (Aug 20, 2015)

I recently bought the Gerlach RWD and have some mixed reviews. First the bad, the watch has some microscopic pieces of dust between the dial and the glass. Since the dial is black the dust particle is visible (barely but still visible) to the naked eye which is a big no no and shouldn't have passed inspection. The crown occasionally gets stuck when trying to screw down and the biggest problem (atleast to me) is the watch does not wind on a basic parallel winder (all my other watches are totally fine). 

The good, its a sharp looking watch no doubt. Winds fine when wearing. The lume is fantastic! The Seagull movement does a great job at keeping time atleast up to now (I'm within COSC). And the power reserve lasts nearly two days.

Weighing the pros and cons I would say it's a keeper when compared to other Pilot watches in the same price range. Keep in mind, an IWC Mark XVII(I) costs more than 10 times at $4000 for a watch with a 2892 movement which if put in the RWD would cost $400. Silly!


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## bushu16 (Jul 12, 2018)

I have order a Xiaomi Ciga with Seagull seagull ST2551JK movement.
Let's see how that performs.


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## ML55AMG (Dec 24, 2018)

bushu16 said:


> I have order a Xiaomi Ciga with Seagull seagull ST2551JK movement.
> Let's see how that performs.


Friend, what do you experience with the ST25 quality today? I ask because the thread is old and experience can change


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

ML55AMG said:


> Friend, what do you experience with the ST25 quality today? I ask because the thread is old and experience can change


This question seems to be coming up a lot lately on this forum.

My own experience of the ST2528 in my forum project watch has been that after several years it continues to be a great runner with excellent accuracy, good power reserve and fast auto-winding.


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## Thrax (Oct 6, 2012)

I have several ST25 that are nearing 10 years. They all run superbly.


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## Triton9 (Sep 30, 2011)

I hate the second hand design of standard ST-25 movement. Try reinstall it and the design for it is pain in the a-ss.

In terms of reliability, the second hand design might cause some stability problem since it's hold by a tiny spring. 

Not a easy movement to work with.


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## ST2505 (Jan 14, 2021)

Suncoast said:


> Over on the affordables forum there is quite a thread going in regards to a new watch made in poland but using a Sea-Gull ST-25 movement G. Gerlach - Made in Poland they are made by g.Gerlach and look very nice and very well made. I''m just wondering if anyone from the Chinese board with experience with the Sea-Gull ST25 movements can comment on the accuracy and durability aspect of these movements when compared to other swiss or japanese movements. The watches end up being @ $320.00 shipped anywhere in the world. Is this a lot for an ST25 movement based watch? Comments?


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## ST2505 (Jan 14, 2021)

Very nicely finished ...and pretty accurate...and very affordable...love it!


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