# To go Damest or not?



## UnfortunateDateWindow (Jul 14, 2016)

I'm close to pulling the trigger on a DA 46, hopefully customized with red pip, red seconds hand, and red-stitched strap. (Effectively looking like a smaller DK10, which I'd just buy instead and get all of the cool tech if it were available in the DA line's dimensions, but unfortunately, it's not.)

Only remaining question is Black (Damest) or regular finish. I've been searching through posts here for a while, trying to get a feel for how owners end up liking the Damest coating long-term, but have come up with relatively little. Considerations:


*Appearance: *Both finishes look great to me, but I slightly prefer the Black in most photos so far. (I've seen neither in person.)
*Durability: *I don't mind if this watch gets beaten up a bit, but I'd prefer the extra durability of Damest if it makes a big difference.
*Bracelet:* I'd love the option to get the bracelet as well, but there's no Damest bracelet today, and nobody seems to think it's coming anytime soon (if ever?). It seems like the regular bracelet's surface shows minor surface wear more easily than people expected, despite being otherwise very well-received, and I wonder whether a Damest one would avoid those wear marks.

I'd love to hear from owners of either/both finishes whether you're happy with it, whether you'd buy the same finish again, and in particular, how the Damest coating wears long-term. Does it stay flawless in practice? Is the regular hardened steel close enough?

Thanks for any guidance you can provide.


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## TimePieceObsessed (Dec 30, 2014)

I have had a DK11 for a little over 1 year and it looks brand new. The ice hardened steel is, perhaps, the most scratch resistant surface I've seen. As a result, I recently added the Damasko bracelet to my collection and it seems equally durable. If I were you, I'd base this decision on looks alone. If you're a bracelet guy, go with the standard color so you can get the bracelet -- it's [email protected] good. Otherwise, flip a coin ... Hard to make a bad decision between two great options.


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## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

Would go black, the grey which is similar to the Sinn grey is just not my thing either and looks very Germanic not sure how to explain it, like battleship grey something about it I just do not like. The black (just ordered one) just makes everything pops especially the red. My 2 cents worth 


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Well, in the flesh I like the "regular" finish a bit more, it is, imho, visually more attractive. As a result and a matter of fact I wear my DC 66 more often compared to my DA20 Vintage.


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## Lolo88 (Oct 28, 2008)

I also have the same dilemma, black or blasted. I am looking forward to see more opinions.


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## Shalalai (Nov 7, 2013)

Been contemplating a Damasko myself and asked them regarding the black bracelet absence. The answer was that a black version is in the works, "near future" to be precise, although didn't get a definition of what near future is so guess we'll see about it.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

I think we will see some Damasko novelties during Munichtime 2016.


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## sulpher (Nov 3, 2013)

jmanlay said:


> (...) the grey which is similar to the Sinn grey is just not my thing either and *looks very Germanic* (...)


Well, it is a German watch after all. (Even if I really don't understand what you mean by "Germanic" - especially with the battleship reference.)


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## UnfortunateDateWindow (Jul 14, 2016)

Thanks to everyone so far. This helps a lot.

Seems like the ideal move is to wait until the Damest bracelet comes out (October? 2017? 2050?), fly out to Germany, see them all in person, get a feel for all of them, then make one perfect, educated, final decision.

The more realistic and likely move is to just accept that I'll probably end up buying multiple Damaskos, possibly at the same time, and oh well, life is short.

And I suppose that around here, the latter option is probably not completely unheard of.


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## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

sulpher said:


> Well, it is a German watch after all. (Even if I really don't understand what you mean by "Germanic" - especially with the battleship reference.)


I know hard to describe but German designs are very austere in a lot of cases and the grey fits right in. Not a flashy people in general which Is what I meant. Nothing wrong w grey just not my thing.

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## Junior29 (May 5, 2015)

I personally really like the grey of Damasko steel on my DA44. The finish is very uniform and attractive and its sheen interacts with light in interesting ways.

Regarding durability, I don't believe it is an absolute given that just because a Damest coated Damasko is harder it will look better longer. Even though it may scratch much less often, when it does, it will be more obvious because of the difference in color between the coating and the base metal.

Regarding the bracelet I would have a similar concern as someone who is pretty picky. The Damasko bracelet demonstrated that no matter the hardness, when you have two substances of identical hardness rubbing against each other you will have wear. And again, when that happens with the Damest it will show up more.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

No wrong choices. All have their own unique characteristics.


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## UnfortunateDateWindow (Jul 14, 2016)

Junior29 said:


> The Damasko bracelet demonstrated that no matter the hardness, when you have two substances of identical hardness rubbing against each other you will have wear. And again, when that happens with the Damest it will show up more.


I hadn't considered this point - I'd just assumed that the Damest coating would be able to rub against itself without noticeable wear. Might there be anything about it (its increased hardness, its finish texture) that would make it more/less tolerant of rubbing against itself?

For reference, I have the Apple Watch black DLC bracelet, which I used heavily for about 9 months, and it shows absolutely zero signs of wear anywhere. No scratches, no scuffs, no shiny wear areas. Nothing. Looks brand new. (And I wasn't incredibly gentle with it.) So it appears to be possible for a good black DLC layer to be used on a bracelet without noticeable wear patterns.


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## parsig9 (Jul 28, 2015)

I have a DA46 black. I have rapped it on doorways and in the kitchen and garage. I hit it pretty hard on a door jam a couple weeks ago and about lost it... Looked down and saw marks, paint from the door was on the case and bezel, stuck between the crystal and bezel. I took my finger nail and a toothpick and scraped it all off and there is not a mark left to be found. The door got the worst of it for sure. Watch looks totally new.


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## Bender.Folder (Sep 16, 2014)

Damest is cool . 2nd day DC66 on wrist, someone slams a door on me at work, blocked it with my...damasko . The door has a small dent in it due to the bezel beveling. The watch is pristine and keeps time same as out of the box. I'd say the 'weakest' is the movement, remains an automatic one even if they're time proven workhorses, and the dual AR coating. Mine as a super tiny scratch already, but its less sensitive as Omegas or Breitling ones imho. I'd go for inner AT coating only and with damest. Its the king of pvd watches after all. Harder than ceramic vickers wise but in case of drop it won't shatter. 

And if a damest bracelet is in the drawer, always time to add one later.


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## Junior29 (May 5, 2015)

UnfortunateDateWindow said:


> I hadn't considered this point - I'd just assumed that the Damest coating would be able to rub against itself without noticeable wear. Might there be anything about it (its increased hardness, its finish texture) that would make it more/less tolerant of rubbing against itself?...


This is a fair point. It would seem that the combination of hardness and elasticity found in Damest would in fact make it more tolerant of rubbing against itself in theory - although that is a topic beyond my technical ability. Maybe others will chime in.

I also recognize that there is a difference between theoretical wear and noticeable wear. Damest is after all a thick layer. I would certainly expect the Damasko bracelet to hold up better and longer than your Apple Watch DLC bracelet.


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## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

Junior29 said:


> Damest is after all a thick layer


 I would not describe 7 microns (0.000275591 inches) as "thick"


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## Junior29 (May 5, 2015)

Happy Acres said:


> I would not describe 7 microns (0.000275591 inches) as "thick"


Compared to an inch....no. Compared to average DLC thickness....I believe yes. Additional microns of something of this hardness should add a lot of life in this context.

The point I was trying to make is that if OP is pleased with the performance of his DLC in this application so far, then he should be even more pleased with Damest. And in addition to hardness and elasticity, thickness is a factor.


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## sulpher (Nov 3, 2013)

Happy Acres said:


> I would not describe 7 microns (0.000275591 inches) as "thick"


Do you have a clue how "thick" a normal PVD coating is? Not even half that thick. So I would say 7 µm is pretty thick indeed, compared to 2 or 3 µm.


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## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

sulpher said:


> Do you have a clue how "thick" a normal PVD coating is? Not even half that thick. So I would say 7 µm is pretty thick indeed, compared to 2 or 3 µm.


 I do, just a personal thing. would not use that adjective for either.


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## goschro (Jul 25, 2016)

Don´t wanna hijack your post. 

Just curious: Anyone has an idea what voltage and current is applied during ion implantation? Damasko also doesn´t say too much 
about which kind of plasma is applied during final layer deposition? Argon, Xenon, oxygen ...? Cool technology watches. 

Mikey, any idea???


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Feel free to ask Damasko to get the information you want to know. If you do it in a polite way you will get a response, I am sure about that. That being said I am afraid your politeness has boundaries. Anyway, give it a try.


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## WichitaViajero (Feb 22, 2013)

I feel that I'm getting converted to Damasko already!



parsig9 said:


> I have a DA46 black. I have rapped it on doorways and in the kitchen and garage. I hit it pretty hard on a door jam a couple weeks ago and about lost it... Looked down and saw marks, paint from the door was on the case and bezel, stuck between the crystal and bezel. I took my finger nail and a toothpick and scraped it all off and there is not a mark left to be found. The door got the worst of it for sure. Watch looks totally new.


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## ridnovir (Feb 20, 2015)

I have DA36 on a bracelet. It is durable and looks great, wears good with any outfit and it is very different (I call it stealth grey) from polished or brushed stainless steel that everyone else is wearing which makes it stand out of the crowd - got numerous compliments already.


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## myke (Jan 19, 2012)

I have both finishes the Damest and standard. The Damest coating can scratch and I prefer just stock unfinished. I think it is more durable. My wife has DA46 black that she confiscated from me when it arrived. i then purchased a DA 47 black which after 2 years has a small scratch on the bezel and hers is very scratched up. Great watches you can't go wrong either way.


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## Bender.Folder (Sep 16, 2014)

Post pics, curious to see , scratched damest??


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## UnfortunateDateWindow (Jul 14, 2016)

Thanks for the opinions and experiences, everyone. They helped me appreciate both finishes... so much that I actually ended up wanting one of each:


DA36 on bracelet (regular finish)
DA46 Black on strap, customized to be red-themed like a smaller DK10 (if Damasko rejects my customization, I'll just get a DA44 Black)

I'll follow up when they arrive (with photos, of course). And if I don't like one, oh well, I can sell them (hopefully here). Life is short.


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## handkepi (Aug 1, 2016)

Your thread was helpful.
Thanks


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## Junior29 (May 5, 2015)

Nice! Will look forward to reading your impressions when they arrive. Two great choices.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Glad that you decided to go with both. I too own a Damest and non-Damest and I personally appreciate both in their own way. I reckon that you too will be pleased with your two new additions.



UnfortunateDateWindow said:


> Thanks for the opinions and experiences, everyone. They helped me appreciate both finishes... so much that I actually ended up wanting one of each:
> 
> 
> DA36 on bracelet (regular finish)
> ...


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## bpjacobs (Apr 13, 2016)

For me aesthetics played a large part. I like the white luminescent dial - I chose a DA-35 - and to my eyes the black Damest finish frames it much more effectively than the normal finish. I was further persuaded by my research on the Damest finish, which failed to yield any adverse criticism after long-term use; it is about 3 times harder than the normal finish and the application process seems to avoid the "wearing thin" problem that plagues other black coated watches, including those made by Sinn.


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## pcypret (Aug 22, 2016)

+1 regular finish


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## osamu (Dec 17, 2013)

I was recently making the same choice. I was highly tempted to go with the damest since I have been curious about an all black watch for a while. In some pictures I thought it looked a little very dark grey, which appealed to me, but in other pictures it looked true black. I just don't find too many all black watches all that attractive, and in the pictures I thought the regular was more attractive and would go better with more strap options. I am very happy with the regular, as I've also been looking at like titanium watches, and the regular has an interesting finish like a grey ceramic/titanium mix, a very unique case in my collection. I still am curious in an all black watch, but I think it really needs to be the right watch (likely a ceramic or Tudor BB Dark), not just any watch since I find most black case watches not very attractive.


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## happyscrappyheropup (Feb 6, 2013)

bpjacobs said:


> For me aesthetics played a large part. I like the white luminescent dial - I chose a DA-35 - and to my eyes the black Damest finish frames it much more effectively than the normal finish.


Those were my thoughts, too. The white dial contrasts nicely with the black case.










-- Wayne


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## umarrajs (Oct 18, 2012)

Damest.......white dial looks sleek and elegant encased in the rubbery blackness:


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