# The Mk II Paradive the second step in a new direction:



## Yao

Beginning in the new year we will be reorganizing our collection. The collection will be divided into two groups:

- Professional Series (name is subject to change)
- Specialist Series (name is subject to change)

The Professional series will be our top tier priced at $1k +. This half of the collection will include the LRRP, the new Stingray, and the Paradive. These watches will include features such as higher water resistance, HRV, and antimagnetic shielding but not necessarily in all one package. Along with the more sophisticated features will come higher quality cases. For example the Paradive is an entirely CNC machined case as will be the new Stingray. The one exception for the near future to this will be the LRRP which is partially CNC machined and partially stamped, which is also why it is at the lower end of the price range despite the more expensive movement. 

The Specialist series will be our 2nd tier collection priced under $1k. This will include the Sea Fighter, the LE Kingston and Vantage. These watches will feature 100 - 200 meters water resistance. The quality and price of these watches will remain the same with more subtle improvements made over time. 

What prompted the change is that as a company I wanted to add more sophisticated watches to our line but keep the watches that built this company. We will be investing a great deal more on a per watch basis into the Professional line so it will be important to make the distinction between the different quality and sophistication levels. As the company has grown we can now afford to build more interesting projects. With the Professional line it is my hope that over the next 12 months it will allow me to do a number of things:

·Smooth out the production schedule for custom watches. With more slack in the schedule I will be better able to deal with issues and look for and train staff
·Spend more time building the brand
·Make long overdue improvements to communication and customer service

I guess we shall see if the economy will allow for such a shift within a year but this a new direction that after much consideration I believe will be fundamental for the long-term development of Mk II. 

As some will note with the Paradive in particular that this is a significant increase in price to watches that you are already familiar with and may wonder what justifies the higher price. As a tenet I have striven to sell the watches that I have built at what they are "worth" rather than charge what the market would bear based on demand and that will remain a core value. Details such as the acrylic insert that is featured on the Paradive and will be featured on the new Stingray actually held hidden costs (largely consisting of my time spent producing and installing the parts) when I did the inserts myself. For every Stingray I sold with an acrylic insert I was actually losing money when you factor in the time required to finish and install the inserts. With the Tornek inserts we will break even because the painting and luming of the parts are already completed. The reason why I never charged more for the watch was because I felt the price was fair for what the customer received. Just because you have to do it the hard way given the resources at your disposal does not add value for the customer. 

Okay now&#8230;.if there is anyone left still reading this&#8230;.the photos of the new Mk II Paradive:









































Here is a summary of the improvements made:

* Luminous material: We are phasing in a new luminous material by RC Tritec called BG W9. Many of you are already familiar with this new material. It is very similar in daylight appearance to C1 (our standard lume for the last 7 years) but glows blue and glows about twice as brightly as C1. All pre-built watches will be available with BG W9. We are maintaining the use of C1 in order to be able to offer custom options

* Movement: The new standard movement will be a highly decorated Elaboré grade ETA 2836-2. The accuracy and serviceability of the watch is comparable to that of the 2824 but features a day/date display and instant date change at midnight. The later is particularly useful for those of us that keep long and irregular hours.

* Water resistance: The Paradive is water resistant to 300 meters/1,000, which is more consistent with the original 50717 specification for a water resistance of 1,200 feet.

* Helium release valve: I have added an automatic helium release valve (HRV) at the 9 o'clock position. In addition the added capability to saturation dive with the new Paradive the technical requirements for a watch with an automatic HRV require it to be pressure proof to any achievable altitude.

* Acrylic insert: The insert on the new Paradive is acrylic with luminous numbers. All of the numbers and markers on the 12-hour GMT insert are luminous. For the Dive-time elapse insert all of the major markers are luminous (the first 20 minutes and in increments of 5 minutes afterwards). This was a feature I had wanted to include in the Blackwater but could not afford to do so at the time.

* Strap attachment: The strap holes are drilled through the lugs like the Blackwater but the holes are slightly larger so that they will accommodate the Rolex-type shoulderless spring bars found on the Marathon SAR.

* Machining: Normally watches cases are made in a combination of stamping and CNC machining steps. The Paradive is our first case body that is completely CNC machined. The end result should be tighter tolerances and a higher quality fit and finish.

* Size: The new Paradive is 41.25 mm in diameter across the bezel. This is slightly bigger than the Blackwater which is 39.25 mm across the bezel. I didn't make the watch bigger for the sake of making it bigger. After working with and staring at hundreds of finished Blackwaters I felt that the case was actually too small for the size of the dial. At the same time I felt that the dial shouldn't be made any smaller as it was legible and very functional at 28.00 mm.

As usual we will be taking pre-orders but in a change we will be limiting the number of pieces available for pre-order. This in part due to the fact that taking too many pre-orders in the past has dominated our custom build schedule for the better part of each year and the Kingston will probably dominate a significant portion of 2010.

 The Link


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## setherd

Lovely!!!

I particularly like the font used in the bezel. it works very well with the whole watch.
I also like the choice of movement.

Is the lug width 20mm? I ask because the lugs look thick to me. I wonder if 22 mm would be too thin?
EDIT: OK I compared the paradive with the blackwater and you can see how the lugs are slightly thicker, but it looks to me like 22mm would be way to thin. I grabbed a photo of both watches and stuck them together to compare them.

Any chance of a lume shot?? :-!:-!


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## Reintitan

*Bill, you're wrong about one thing*



Yao said:


> The Specialist series will be our 2nd tier collection priced under $1k. This will include the Sea Fighter, the LE Kingston and Vantage.


I think the LE Kingston is not a 2nd tier collection watch. The quality of the dial itself pushes it up to the 1st rung.

Regards,
Gerard


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## ctujack

Very nice, is there any chance of a lume shot?


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## SirRolf

Wow the paradive looks very nice.

I'm also happy that your company is doing so well that it is allowing you to expand (like you said, 'economy willing'). Thanks for the in depth post explaining the restructuring. It's always so nice to hear of a business owner putting so much time and love into their company. MKII is really special. I'm quite happy I stumbled into this community. 

Best of Luck

S.R.


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## sunster

Congratulations Bill. I think you're making the right move.

Pity the Kingston doesn't make it into the 'professional category' quality wise but happy with the price!

I wonder if those who saw the Paradive at the GTG can make a comment now about this watch?


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## Thieuster

SirRolf said:


> Wow the paradive looks very nice.
> 
> I'm also happy that your company is doing so well that it is allowing you to expand (like you said, 'economy willing'). Thanks for the in depth post explaining the restructuring. It's always so nice to hear of a business owner putting so much time and love into their company. MKII is really special. I'm quite happy I stumbled into this community.
> 
> Best of Luck
> 
> S.R.


The watch is awesome. And I think it will be worth the money. Yes, it's expensive, but there's a lot of R&D put into this watch! I think it's worth it!

Talking about community: a few people knew about the watch already. Some did see the watch at the NY GTG, others received an email from Bill about the watch. Bill asked those to be silent about the watch. As far as I know, all did keep their mouth shut. A great achievement, I think.

Menno


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## Dave E

Looks pretty good to me.:-!


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## MID

I know I am not alone in appreciating MKII watches in the past (after all, I have 4, and am looking forward to my TR.) I'm excited about your plans, and wish MKII great success in the future. I'm looking forward to seeing your new designs,


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## siggy

Nice one Bill, looks quality all the way.

regards

siggy


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## *2112

*You've convinced me to buy my first new watch! >>*

The Paradive looks excellent and exactly what I've been waiting for. Great job Bill


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## jeffc67

Congratulations on the growth and the new branding strategy! Though I have yet to book my first MkII (sort of hoping to get in on a Kingston...), I hope MkII's ability to introduce awesome new models outpaces my ability to buy them!

Best of luck,
Jeff


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## nyc_paramedic

Bill,

Are you still considering offering a quartz? Perhaps a profesional series MKII with a thermo-compensated movement? The Paradive, with a quality quartz movement and beefy shoulder-less bars, would make an amazing work/field watch.

Any hint would be appreciated. If a quartz is really coming down the pike, I would like to start putting some pennies aside.


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## GregoryD

Thanks for the update, Bill. It sounds like MkII has some very exciting days ahead. The Paradive looks very nice, and I am excited to see what other watches will come out of the new Professional Line. I just saw the Paradive for the first time last night - in Watch Time magazine!


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## dave43

*Re: Bill, you're wrong about one thing*



Reintitan said:


> I think the LE Kingston is not a 2nd tier collection watch. The quality of the dial itself pushes it up to the 1st rung.
> 
> Regards,
> Gerard


I agree...I think Bill under priced it. I would assume he's taking a hit on plank owners.

Bill....congratulations on your new direction. I think it's admirable but not necessary that you kept your lower priced line as I think your track record of quality and attention to detail warrants MKII pieces to sell in the $1500-$2500 range.


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## clarencek

If I place an order for this watch, when are pre-orders being filled? 2009? 2010? I love the watch, just not sure I want to order it and then wait until Feb 2010 to receive it.


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## Yao

setherd said:


> Lovely!!!
> 
> I particularly like the font used in the bezel. it works very well with the whole watch.
> I also like the choice of movement.
> 
> Is the lug width 20mm? I ask because the lugs look thick to me. I wonder if 22 mm would be too thin?
> EDIT: OK I compared the paradive with the blackwater and you can see how the lugs are slightly thicker, but it looks to me like 22mm would be way to thin. I grabbed a photo of both watches and stuck them together to compare them.
> 
> Any chance of a lume shot?? :-!:-!


The lume shot will have to wait. The insert you see there is C1 LumiNova (not C1 *Super*LumiNova) so it doesn't glow as well as the final will. The final version will use SuperLumiNova exclusively and be available in BGW9 or C1.


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## Yao

*Re: Bill, you're wrong about one thing*



Reintitan said:


> I think the LE Kingston is not a 2nd tier collection watch. The quality of the dial itself pushes it up to the 1st rung.
> 
> Regards,
> Gerard


I think when the the watch is done you will be right. The expected price keeps it in the 2nd tier rather than the expected quality. If anyone would like to volunteer to pay more than $1K let me know :-d


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## sunster

*Re: Bill, you're wrong about one thing*



Yao said:


> I think when the the watch is done you will be right. The expected price keeps it in the 2nd tier rather than the expected quality. If anyone would like to volunteer to pay more than $1K let me know :-d


I could quite imagine them being worth more than $1k this time next year


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## Yao

nyc_paramedic said:


> Bill,
> 
> Are you still considering offering a quartz? Perhaps a profesional series MKII with a thermo-compensated movement? The Paradive, with a quality quartz movement and beefy shoulder-less bars, would make an amazing work/field watch.
> 
> Any hint would be appreciated. If a quartz is really coming down the pike, I would like to start putting some pennies aside.


When I was in Basel earlier this year I asked about the thermo-compensated movements from ETA. They are COSC movements which requires two things:

* Me to register with the COSC and pay for the certification of each movement
* Movements can't leave Switzerland until they are cased.

so no high end quartz will be on the table for the time being. I need to smooth out other parts of the supply chain before I take on something this complicated.


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## Yao

clarencek said:


> If I place an order for this watch, when are pre-orders being filled? 2009? 2010? I love the watch, just not sure I want to order it and then wait until Feb 2010 to receive it.


I hope and expect that we will begin shipments before the end of the year but there is one part that may or may not hold up shipment. I am awaiting word from the case manufacturer about that part. Everything else about the watch is done:

* Movements are in stock
* Dials and hands for the Type I non-date and day/date are in stock'
* Cases and crowns are finished

The one part that we are waiting on is the acrylic insert. In any event the dials, crowns, hands and case bodies will be going to the assemblers sometime next week for assembly.

I wish I had a more clear cut answer for you but that is unfortunately the nature of manufacturing.


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## nyc_paramedic

Yao said:


> When I was in Basel earlier this year I asked about the thermo-compensated movements from ETA. They are COSC movements which requires two things:
> 
> * Me to register with the COSC and pay for the certification of each movement
> * Movements can't leave Switzerland until they are cased.
> 
> so no high end quartz will be on the table for the time being. I need to smooth out other parts of the supply chain before I take on something this complicated.


I really appreciate the info. Totally understandable. If not a thermo-quartz perhaps you'll consider a decent high quality non-thermo quartz as well. I do hope that I see something quartz come from MKII in the near future. I'll be checking in periodically.

Thanks again Bill. Congrats and the best of luck with the new line.


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## justsellbrgs

Yao said:


> When I was in Basel earlier this year I asked about the thermo-compensated movements from ETA. They are COSC movements which requires two things:
> 
> * Me to register with the COSC and pay for the certification of each movement
> * Movements can't leave Switzerland until they are cased.
> 
> so no high end quartz will be on the table for the time being. I need to smooth out other parts of the supply chain before I take on something this complicated.


great explanation --- thanks for all the info Bill.

now, please, everyone, let the master finish the Kingstons! :-!


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## sunster

What is a CNC machined case? How does this improve quality?


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## clarencek

Yao said:


> I hope and expect that we will begin shipments before the end of the year but there is one part that may or may not hold up shipment.


Thank you!

I'm eagerly awaiting my LRRP. Between this model, the new stingray, and the Hamilton... I have some decisions to make.


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## marcel78

break a leg,
congrats,
m


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## es335

Bill does the pre built LRRP have BG W9 lume?

* Luminous material: We are phasing in a new luminous material by RC Tritec called BG W9. Many of you are already familiar with this new material. It is very similar in daylight appearance to C1 (our standard lume for the last 7 years) but glows blue and glows about twice as brightly as C1. All pre-built watches will be available with BG W9. We are maintaining the use of C1 in order to be able to offer custom options


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## timbo

Yao said:


> When I was in Basel earlier this year I asked about the thermo-compensated movements from ETA. They are COSC movements which requires two things:
> 
> * Me to register with the COSC and pay for the certification of each movement
> * Movements can't leave Switzerland until they are cased.
> 
> so no high end quartz will be on the table for the time being. I need to smooth out other parts of the supply chain before I take on something this complicated.


I guess the thermo-compensated ETA is a quartz movmentment?

One thing I would like to see as an option is a COSC automatic option for MKII watches in general. I know that other companies offer a COSC option on their movements when ordering (Stowa does this - a 2824-2 with COSC is an extra $266USD). Any possibility of this option in future watches, Bill?


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## rmasso

timbo said:


> I guess the thermo-compensated ETA is a quartz movmentment?
> 
> One thing I would like to see as an option is a COSC automatic option for MKII watches in general. I know that other companies offer a COSC option on their movements when ordering (Stowa does this - a 2824-2 with COSC is an extra $266USD). Any possibility of this option in future watches, Bill?


I think that Bill adjusts his watches to COSC specification, if not better. With a COSC movement you get an accurately adjusted movement with a certificate. Many watch companies don't even give you a printed certificate anymore. Omega charges $50 extra to get the certificate. The important thing here is that a watch be highly accurate, beyond that the certification is a printed word on the dial or a paper certificate that although nice doesn't see the light of day much. I have a few chronometer certified watches and yet one of my most accurate watches of all, my Seiko Marine Master, is not a chronometer, but is timed very accurately by Seiko. It runs as accurately if not better than my Omega Planet Ocean, which is a chronometer but if i want the cert I have to pay $50 and get it from Omega Switzerland. Not really worth it to me.

That being said, I have nothing against a COSC watch (I have 3), merely stating that Bill already times his watches to that degree. From having looked at ETA's site, I think the chronometer spec movements they sell cost more, thereby adding more to the price of the finished product from MKII, and they might have tighter tolerances or slightly better finish on the movement and maybe use better materials on some of the parts like the balance or hair spring, but I could be wrong here. Bill please correct me if I am wrong.

Oh and yes, a thermo compensated quartz is a chronometer spec'ed quartz movement. I have heard those to be accurate to about 10 seconds a year I believe.

Best Regards,
Richard


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## bompi

Indeed. My Grand SEIKO is actually pretty accurate : +1s / year. ;-) It sports a thermo-compensated quartz movement from SEIKO.

I totally agree with you upon the COSC option [even though I do like the text written on my RLX's dial ]


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## pipers

Very nice Mr. Yao... My plan was to purchase a Blackwater as my first MKII. After seeing this one, now i cant decide


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## nullidentitat

FWIW, I couldn't care less about COSC certification. Knowing that Bill's name is stamped all over the watch (figuratively speaking) is worth more than any certificate/superfluous text on the dial, and I've never had a problem with either of my Mk IIs keeping absurdly good time.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing something with a multifunction ana/digi movement like the one found in the Breitling Aerospace. That movement in the new PD case would be my ultimate tool watch.



timbo said:


> I guess the thermo-compensated ETA is a quartz movmentment?
> 
> One thing I would like to see as an option is a COSC automatic option for MKII watches in general. I know that other companies offer a COSC option on their movements when ordering (Stowa does this - a 2824-2 with COSC is an extra $266USD). Any possibility of this option in future watches, Bill?


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## caesarmascetti

Bill, I love the direction you are going. I would offer one suggestion to your higher end line and that would be to offer the option of top grade movements. I for one would be willing to upgrade the movement as I tend to keep my watches. A program like Stowa offers make the movement upgrade an option. Please let me know what you think.

thanks


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## Yao

caesarmascetti said:


> Bill, I love the direction you are going. I would offer one suggestion to your higher end line and that would be to offer the option of top grade movements. I for one would be willing to upgrade the movement as I tend to keep my watches. A program like Stowa offers make the movement upgrade an option. Please let me know what you think.
> 
> thanks


Yes I do like that option. As the company develops I hope to make this an option. I do appreciate all the references to Stowa but with all deference to Jorg he runs a much more sophisticated and bigger operation that I do ;-)

However I do expect that it will take at least 2 years before I am in a position to offer this.


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## MID

I would definitely appreciate a multi-function ana-digi from MKII along the line of the Aerospace, B1, or Omega X33. There are times when this kind of watch is more than useful.



nullidentitat said:


> That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing something with a multifunction ana/digi movement like the one found in the Breitling Aerospace. That movement in the new PD case would be my ultimate tool watch.


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## ljg

Does the introduction of the new Paradive mean that the Blackwater will be discontinued?
I didn't see the Blackwater mentioned on your list. (I'm saving up for a Blackwater now.....so don't discontinue it yet!!!!!! ;-) )


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## alpapilot

MID said:


> I would definitely appreciate a multi-function ana-digi from MKII along the line of the Aerospace, B1, or Omega X33. There are times when this kind of watch is more than useful.


Huge "YEAH THAT!" from me too. There is no way I would ever spend $3500 or more for a quartz/digital but, less than $1500, oh yeah!


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## clarencek

So I've been reading up on the Blackwater and the Benrus Type I/II watches... is the Paradive a homage to another watch? Or is it an evolution of the Blackwater line?
This is not necessarily for Bill to answer - if anyone else knows I'd love to learn. Thanks.


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## Peter Atwood

So Bill, the Paradive has a slightly larger case and is slightly taller than the first generation Blackwater, correct? Does it still have 20mm lugs? A pity if it does since there is such a lack of high quality 20mm straps on the market.


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## nullidentitat

From the PD specifications link:

Dimensions: 

• Lug width: 20.0mm


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## Yao

clarencek said:


> So I've been reading up on the Blackwater and the Benrus Type I/II watches... is the Paradive a homage to another watch? Or is it an evolution of the Blackwater line?
> This is not necessarily for Bill to answer - if anyone else knows I'd love to learn. Thanks.


It is both. It is an evolution of the Blackwater line. However both watches are homages to the Benrus Type I/II watches.

Here is some more info on the Benrus if you like:

Billy's Site

Hyunsuk's site

Incidentally Hyunsuk is the collector that really brought the Type I/IIs to the forefront of the collector's community. In addition his work on custom watches paved the way for Mk II.


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## Yao

sunster said:


> What is a CNC machined case? How does this improve quality?


CNC stands for computer numerical controlled. CNC machining is where a computer controls the cutting and machining of parts. It allows for greater accuracy and precision in the manufacture of certain types of components.

As far as watchmaking is concerned it also allows more complex shapes and for a greater consistency in production. Stamping can also lend itself to great accuracy for certain types of parts but for watch cases CNC machining is preferable if you can justify the cost. Stamping saves time but you tend to sacrifice the purity of the lines of a case you are trying to create.

However the added expense of CNC machining is somewhat lost if it is not de-burred and polished by a skilled craftsman. For the Paradive it is a culmination of the two.


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## Yao

Peter Atwood said:


> So Bill, the Paradive has a slightly larger case and is slightly taller than the first generation Blackwater, correct? Does it still have 20mm lugs? A pity if it does since there is such a lack of high quality 20mm straps on the market.


I thought about using 22 mm lugs and even mocked it up but it just didn't look right. I was trying to capture more of the chunkiness of the original.

I for the most part a NATO/rubber strap guy so I don't follow what is available as much. I also figured that most of these would end up on some type of nylon strap :-d

I am looking into having a nice leather strap made but I am waiting on word from the supplier.


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## Yao

ljg said:


> Does the introduction of the new Paradive mean that the Blackwater will be discontinued?
> I didn't see the Blackwater mentioned on your list. (I'm saving up for a Blackwater now.....so don't discontinue it yet!!!!!! ;-) )


I haven't decided yet. I'd like to keep a version of it in the line up but the economy next year will be a bigger factor in what happens to it. In any event if the watch stays in the line up the name will be changed also.


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## J_Hack

This is a very nice looking watch. Glad to hear you are continuing to make progress with your business. While I do not own any MKII's at the time, they are on my short list. Let's see... where to begin, Seafighter... Maybe the new Paradive. Hard to pick really as all your pieces look great.


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## GarageBoy

So wait, the new LRRP is even higher quality than the existing?


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## Beau8

Like the look of the paradive~Cheers! ;-)


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## nullidentitat

I'm in.


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## Yao

GarageBoy said:


> So wait, the new LRRP is even higher quality than the existing?


As far as the case goes it is on par with what the Kingston will be. The additional cost of the movement, extra components, higher water resistance and HRV push the retail price higher than the Kingston will retail for in the general release though.


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## DaveOBrien

*A different view*

Bill is to USA like Eddie is to UK, a maker of fine military style/hommage watches for reasonable prices. You could buy and wear a fine watch that looked similar to a grail without having to worry about ruining a piece of history. In addition Bill's parts for Seiko's and ETA's have enabled myself and many to enjoy the fun of modding watches.

I have always liked the Mark II offerings and the Blackwater is my favorite watch. I had considered the Blackwater a little overpriced but worth it when I bought it last year (used) even though I dislike the unfortunate name, good thing is not marked on the case I call it my Mark II.

The new upsized and renamed offering is priced too high for me but Mark II continue to set the standard for style and slim design unlike all the massive divers coming out. I am sure that the costs to produce a new watch are reflected in the pricing. But I am still unhappy with this trend in pricing, especially in this economy. I wish Bill and Mark II all success.

The new price hike will drive a lot of people to other brands or sub $600 dollar watches.

So unlike all the posters who applaud the raise in prices I would like to voice my sorrow at the elevation of the Mark II brand into this higher price bracket.

Wish you the best Bill and love your watches.


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## MID

I know this isn't really the place to tell Bill what watches to make, but a Chronosport UDT homage might be a modest compromise on an ana-dig. And it probably wouldn't require a Swiss module.



alpapilot said:


> Huge "YEAH THAT!" from me too. There is no way I would ever spend $3500 or more for a quartz/digital but, less than $1500, oh yeah!


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## Steve356

I was fortunate to see this new model in person a few weeks ago and I would like to tell everyone that it is a great looking watch that improves on the Blackwater IMHO. 
I had Blackwater briefly and I thought that compared to the original Benrus it did not have that proud presence. It was a bit too thin for my liking. the new Paradive is thicker and wears better IMHO. The new bezel is very nice btw.


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## rmasso

Bill, will the LRRP continue to have the same movement in it in the future (the 2893-2)?? Also, will the LRRP eventually be CNC machined 100% thus cost more than its current retail? 

I continue to debate whether to buy a second Kingston or get the LRRP. I like the 2893 movement in the LRRP a lot and I like the current price of it as well, I feel it is priced right. If it changes to be a 100% CNC case, I am afraid that will hike the price quite a bit from where it currently stands.

Any information you are willing to share would be greatly appreciated as I continue to try and make decisions. You have a lot of nice watches in the line but I can't afford to get one of each.

Best Regards,
Richard


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## Yao

rmasso said:


> Bill, will the LRRP continue to have the same movement in it in the future (the 2893-2)?? Also, will the LRRP eventually be CNC machined 100% thus cost more than its current retail?
> 
> I continue to debate whether to buy a second Kingston or get the LRRP. I like the 2893 movement in the LRRP a lot and I like the current price of it as well, I feel it is priced right. If it changes to be a 100% CNC case, I am afraid that will hike the price quite a bit from where it currently stands.
> 
> Any information you are willing to share would be greatly appreciated as I continue to try and make decisions. You have a lot of nice watches in the line but I can't afford to get one of each.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Richard


Honestly I don't know if the LRRP will move to the stage of using a 100% CNC machined case. That will ultimately depend on how well the watch sells if sales are good we will upgrade the case when we we run out of the current cases.


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## TheHobbit

Congrats to Mr. Yao on the new watch. It is very nice. I wish all the best to you and your company. As for me I am still waiting to put my name on the next launch of the TR1000. I missed the first on and hopefully is on the wait list.


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## kkmark

*Fixed lugs?*

Already have a Blackwater incoming so will need to wait before I pull the trigger on this new one! Looks fantastic though.

Wondering if cutting a case via CNC allows for fixed lugs to be machined...


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## Redrum

Honestly:

1.- Higher water resistance?
What for?, for most normal people 200m is enough.
2.- HRV's?
What for?, not many people are actually saturation divers.
3.- CNC's?
How exactly is this a major improvement over a CNC-Stamped case.
Any examples out there?, how can a lay man know if a watch is CNC'd
or stamped or CNC'd-stamped.
4.- If anything, your watches need bracelets.

Congrats and good luck on your new direction. |>
(just don't start with fine leather goods and jewelry like Omega)


RR


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## Yao

Redrum said:


> Honestly:
> 1.- Higher water resistance?
> What for?, for most normal people 200m is enough.


The original specification for this watch was for 1,200 feet water resistance. 300 meters is close enough for my purposes to the original standard. Also my read of what people like is that they like higher water resistance watches. I choose to stop at 300 meters at this point because its the most that my equipment will be able to test. I don't believe in making a watch to a water resistance that I can't actually test and verify.



Redrum said:


> 2.- HRV's?
> What for?, not many people are actually saturation divers.


We are trying to build more sophisticated watches and watches that all diver's can use. Also it does have other attributes which I explain in the overview of the watch posted in this thread and on the site.



Redrum said:


> 3.- CNC's?
> How exactly is this a major improvement over a CNC-Stamped case.
> Any examples out there?, how can a lay man know if a watch is CNC'd
> or stamped or CNC'd-stamped.


I answered most of this question above in a separate post. If you have a chance to see the Blackwater versus the Paradive the difference will become very clear. I will try to take a pic if I have time. I am trying to explain the difference in cost and the improvements it imparts and how those improvements in fit and finish were achieved. I did not intend for this to become a defining factor in general watch purchases.



Redrum said:


> 4.- If anything, your watches need bracelets.


I am working on a bracelet for the Paradive. As you will see each watch after the Stingray has featured a solid end-piece bracelet (e.g. Vantage, LRRP, and Kingston)


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## Bill J

Yao said:


> I haven't decided yet. I'd like to keep a version of it in the line up but the economy next year will be a bigger factor in what happens to it. In any event if the watch stays in the line up the name will be changed also.


Bill, I hope you keep the Blackwater prefer the GMT bezel and type 1 and II dials and type 1 hands. The rest, no need. I also prefer the non-lume bezel and the case size as is. BTW I have 4 BW's now.
By all means, change the name, if you recall my background, you know I do not condone mercenaries. Enough said!

I love the new Paradive, it looks great as is. I am not sure I will buy one though, there comes a point that the price becomes out of reach sort of. I really want a Kingston, wish I had heard about it sooner and gotten in on the first wave. Hoping to get in on the last wave! We shall see.

Best wishes Bill and MKII, may you continue to grow and prosper.

Bill J


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## JDS (Ohio)

Yao said:


> I haven't decided yet. I'd like to keep a version of it in the line up but the economy next year will be a bigger factor in what happens to it. In any event if the watch stays in the line up the name will be changed also.


Bill, change the Blackwater name but keep the watch. I have the Blackwater on my wishlist too, but hoped to get it in a stronger lume - the BG-W9 might be the ticket - I need it to glow well throughout the night.

I do like the Paradive's looks though, but the case diameter (almost 45mm without the crown) would likely overpower my wrist, the 42mm Blackwater would be much closer to my needs.

I understand the name change though, a shame it got besmirched by things totally divorced from the watch.


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## Yao

JDS (Ohio) said:


> Bill, change the Blackwater name but keep the watch. I have the Blackwater on my wishlist too, but hoped to get it in a stronger lume - the BG-W9 might be the ticket - I need it to glow well throughout the night.
> 
> I do like the Paradive's looks though, but the case diameter (almost 45mm without the crown) would likely overpower my wrist, the 42mm Blackwater would be much closer to my needs.
> 
> I understand the name change though, a shame it got besmirched by things totally divorced from the watch.


As far as the Paradive's size. Yes the watch is bigger than the Blackwater but the size is comparable to that of the LRRP that you have. If the LRRP works for you the Paradive should also work, size wise anyway. ;-)

The figure of the Paradive's width, including the crown guards but not the crown, overstates the actual size.


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## bompi

[oops. sorry]


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## *2112

*Bill - How thick is the watch? >>*

..and for those trying to quantify/validate the increase in price over the Blackwater...stop! The R&D, materials, finishing, regulation and something we probably all underestimate, Bills time, certainly add up to an $1150 watch. If you don't agree, go with the Blackwater; the're both excellent choices. 
I haven't been this excited over a watch since the arrival of my GS; thanks Bill !



Yao said:


> As far as the Paradive's size. Yes the watch is bigger than the Blackwater but the size is comparable to that of the LRRP that you have. If the LRRP works for you the Paradive should also work, size wise anyway. ;-)
> 
> The figure of the Paradive's width, including the crown guards but not the crown, overstates the actual size.


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## pipers

Bill J said:


> Bill, I hope you keep the Blackwater prefer the GMT bezel and type 1 and II dials and type 1 hands.


+1 on this. I'm hoping to get a non-date blackwater type 1 or 2 soon, but i see that the 12hr gmt bezel is no longer available


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## Kent108

I hate to sound ungrateful after this big news, but:

Any timeframe on the new professional version of the Stingray? Will the upgraded Stingray have enhancements similar to the Paradive (acrylic bezel insert, HEV, higher WR, etc.) and also be slightly bigger in the same way? Will the case design be substantially the same?)

(Trying to decide whether to get the present version or wait for the Professional one and determining whether the enhancements will be worth the additional wait ...)

Thanks!

- Kent


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## Plissken

I was pondering buying a Blackwater, and then I looked on the MIIK web site and saw this!! What a watch! My only concern is the thickness and weight compared with the Blackwater, but still the features are amazing. Day/date seems on a Type I dial seems a great combo. Decisions decisions. :-!


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## Peter Atwood

If Bill says this is comparable to the LRRP then it is not overpowering in size and weight at all. It really should hit a sweet spot I'd say...


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## Yao

Peter Atwood said:


> If Bill says this is comparable to the LRRP then it is not overpowering in size and weight at all. It really should hit a sweet spot I'd say...


The Paradive and the LRRP are exactly the same weight, 95 grams (head only)


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## nullidentitat

Any further news on the PD? I'm assuming they're still at the assemblers?


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## *2112

*+1 !!!!!! nt*

gg


nullidentitat said:


> Any further news on the PD? I'm assuming they're still at the assemblers?


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## Peter Atwood

*Re: +1 !!!!!! nt*

What's the latest word? Any progress report Bill?


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