# Please post your vintage Zenith



## sneer

As a quite fresh member WUS I'd like to see lots of pictures of the vintage Zenith you have in your possession.

I'd like to say hello and welcome everyone!

cal. 126-6 (1947-56)


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## D N Ravenna

Welcome to the Zenith Forum. Nice 126-6! Wear it in good health!
Dan


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## sempervivens

Hello and congratulations, that is a lovely vintage Zenith you got there. Is the caseback signed?

Cal. 106 (-6) (1938-1958)


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## sneer

yes - pls find caseback picture



Thank you for your nice feedback  ... and another one below


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## sempervivens

Congratulations that is very nice, another beautiful vintage.


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## sneer

Congratulations! great sporto. I think that I have something similar











and without sporto


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## sempervivens

Wonderful. I like the painted stars and the specially shaped numerals. 
So you have (at least) three Sporto's ? The third one being the white dial with the special numerals, but without Sporto on the dial? 
Looks like caliber 120, I'd like one of those


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## sneer

thanks - previous with black ring is also a sporto. I started collecting zenith watches just a year ago - it is very difficut to find zenith in nice shape at a resonable price
First one is with cal 40-t , second and third one with cal. 120 - you right 

it is my guide





and my last from sporto below cal 2542 (till now ...)


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## sneer

and the next one from my collection

cal 2531 (1964-66)


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## sempervivens

lovely, I can see you're very meticulous in your choice

have you found these in Poland ?


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## sneer

not only, im buying around the world... and you?

Cal. 2532, 1964-67, f = 21600 A/h, power reserve 50h,


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## Sakonioli

Classic Cal.40 is my poor man PP


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## sneer

great photo! This watch has been renovated?


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## Sakonioli

My watch has 100% all original parts. Movement inside looks like new.

PS. I am purist vintage watch collector. I always avoid buying a watch with refinished dial or a watch coming without original Zenith crown 



sneer said:


> great photo! This watch has been renovated?


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## sempervivens

sneer said:


> not only, im buying around the world... and you?


I bought all my Zeniths in URP












> Classic Cal.40 is my poor man PP


Nice one, Sakonioli. Cal. 40 remains among my favorites.


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## sneer

congratulations - they look great!

next one from me


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## sneer

and the next one with cal. 120


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## sempervivens

A Zenith Pilot ! Very nice. Keep 'em coming :-!


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## sneer

Thanks 

and next one in great condition


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## Tony C.




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## sempervivens

Hi Tony !


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## sneer

I can say only WOW ! Great chrono and sporto - Congrat !

and next


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## sneer

and next


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## joesnuffy




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## sempervivens

I like them all, but I should definitely get one like this


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## sneer

and next one from my collection - cal. 126, 1951, with box


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## gippo

My little star ;-)


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## sempervivens

* Zenith automatic 28800 AutoSport (01-1291-290)


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## sneer

wow! great star!

and from me - i dont know how old is this watch? cal 126-6


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## Hartmut Richter

Nice watch. With that movement serial number (4486152), it should date to 1956. Zenith ought to be able to give an exact date, but unfortunately they have not been consistent in replying in recent years.

Hartmut Richter


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## palmpalm




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## sneer

Hartmut Richter said:


> Nice watch. With that movement serial number (4486152), it should date to 1956. Zenith ought to be able to give an exact date, but unfortunately they have not been consistent in replying in recent years.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


thank you very much for your help!
regards


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## Stigmata

sneer said:


> and the next one from my collection
> 
> cal 2531 (1964-66)


Same as mine but mine is without the Arabics.


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## Stigmata

Oh and i have seen watches exactly the same marked 'Sporto' and mine is a clearskin with only the Zenith and the star. Is there a difference between the watches?


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## zeljan

Zenith Sporto


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## sneer

gold version?


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## zeljan

YES, 18K

https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/zenith-sporto-738470.html

brg

Zeljan


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## Sakonioli

My latest acquisition

A vintage pilot-style Zenith Cal.120 (Brass movement)


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## Schrodinger

Hi, first post. Just made my first move into watches with the good stuff inside!

I bought this Zenith, which I like very much but on inspection (it arrived today) it has an area to the edge of the 3 & 4 numerals on the dial which is damaged. The paint appears to be lifting off the dial steel (is this the correct construction assumption) perhaps due to corrosion, being close to the crown. You can see it in the second poor photo...

So I have a couple of questions for those with more knowledge...

is this repairable?
if you could return the watch (wasn't cheap I don't think) would you?

Thanks in advance


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## Hessu

Did you buy it from Thailand or Philippines by any chance? Bought two years ago a Mido Ocean Star Commander, with beautiful blue dial. It also stated to chip. They repaint dials, but it don't last, when you pull crown up and push down, the friction makes dial to chip the paint.
Just came here from eBay.co.uk, its full of Zeniths with repainted dials. Blue or burgundy dials in 40's watch... annoys the heck out of me, just thinking about all those ruined watches.


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## Schrodinger

No, no. From a chap in the UK, great feedback, sold a few watches. To be clear the dial paintwork is perfect, it's like there is rust UNDER the paint causing a tiny bit to lift. Seems like something that could happen to a quality watch given lack of service/ not dried when splashed.

Did Zenith do painted dials?


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## Hartmut Richter

Oh dear - bad redial! I would say that it is certainly repairable- but it would cost and still not be an original dial. On balance, I would say that given the option, I would return it - it is unlikely to have such a special movement as to warrant keeping it and investing a whole load of cash in it. Unless it has a Cal. 135.....

Hartmut Richter


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## Schrodinger

When you say 'bad redial' do you mean the crease in the paint was caused by a refit? So the current dial is not authentic. New to this...

Pretty sure it contains a 126-6


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## Hartmut Richter

When you see a dial blistering like that, it is a reasonably safe bet that it was badly redialled and that the new paint is peeling off. On top of that, black dials from that period are generally rare and should be viewed with some caution - because they are rare, the real ones are more valuable than an identical watch with silver dial so the fakers and frankenizers tend to churn them out more. Zenith mainly made black dials for (military) Pilot watches and these did not have white paint but instead had radium lume on enamel based dials. Some of their later (civilian) watches had white paint but most had applied indices or numbers and also had applied Zenith stars. To cap it all, although it might be a trick of the light or crystal distortion, the numbering in the lower half is not really very good - the upper edges of the "5" and the "7" do not by any means form a straight line. It is possible that it is an original, unrestored dial that has suffered over the ages but I still consider it unlikely.

Hartmut Richter


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## ChrisDeskDiver




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## Hessu

Here's my T-twins:








































The first on I have had about 10 years. The latter one is a new purchase (95€ in a internet auction). I serviced it yesterday, but did not have a new glass for it. Just polished it a bit, will replace it next year.


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## sneer

And new.


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## D N Ravenna

Love those applied numbers!
Thanks for the shots!
Dan


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## Hessu

Sneer, what cal is that? 25xx-series? Looks absolutely cool!


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## sneer

Thanks  cal. 2532


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## Sakonioli

Sexy Captain Cal.71


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## LouS

Sakonioli said:


> Sexy Captain Cal.71
> 
> View attachment 934827


HUGELY sexy! What a lovely watch - and a cal 71 to boot.


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## Hartmut Richter

Great watch, only one thing wrong with it - IT ISN'T MINE!!! :-| :-x o|

<Insert a green-eyed logo here.....>

Hartmut Richter


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## predapio

Any help with this one? It's my dad's. He bought it sometime in 1966 when I was born.

18K with a matching bracelet.

Yes, the pics are a few years old.

TIA


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## Sakonioli

Just get a Pilot back from overhaul.

My Zentih brothers. Pilot born in 1956 and Irvine Hindle born in 1957. Both are powered by Cal.120


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## sneer

sneer said:


> and the next one with cal. 120


Gentlemen,

What do you think is on the dial? fungus?

regards


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## Hartmut Richter

I am not sure that there is anyone specializing in microbial assays here - especially based on just one non-close-up picture. Possibly fungus, possibly bacterial - or maybe just simple chemical degradation. If you think it's microbes, just make sure you don't keep the watch in humid conditions.

Hartmut Richter


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## D N Ravenna

Hard to tell from here, but is it verdigris?

Cheers,
Dan


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## sempervivens

predapio said:


> Any help with this one? It's my dad's. He bought it sometime in 1966 when I was born.
> 
> 18K with a matching bracelet.
> 
> Yes, the pics are a few years old.
> 
> TIA


I'm sorry if you got no reply to your question. There is little we can tell you without a movement shot.

Based on the serial number on the case back, I think your watch dates to ca. 1968.

I would guess it has a Zenith calibre 2541 inside.

What is the diameter of the watch (without crown) ?


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## sneer

Thank you gentlemen!

I'll check precisely at the watchmaker. I bought something like that in Germany- I'm waiting for a package. Could you tell me more about this? It is standard zenith or something interesting? There is no on ebay - I do not know if there is anything worth..or only for parts.


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## Hartmut Richter

That is a late "Captain" model from ca. 1970. Because of its case shape, it was nicknamed "_La Tortue_" (turtle or tortoise). If it works, it would be a terrible shame to sacrifice it for parts. A crystal polish and a service will do wonders.

Hartmut Richter


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## stilli

I'm really interested in getting a vintage Zenith. I found this one online that I like a lot. Can anyone comment on the authenticity or if it is true to the time period(1960s)? Thanks!


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## LouS

stilli said:


> I'm really interested in getting a vintage Zenith. I found this one online that I like a lot. Can anyone comment on the authenticity or if it is true to the time period(1960s)? Thanks!


The watch is authentic. The price is exorbitant.


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## Hartmut Richter

Haven't seen the price so I can't comment on that. The watch is authentic and seems like it could do with a decent clean. It is from the early to mid 1960s - it already has the new case number system (###A###) which is from 1962-63 or thereafter. The sunken subdials and the movement (Cal. 146 D) agree with this.

Hartmut Richter


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## stilli

what do you think is a fair price? they are asking about $3k USD.

also are there any online resources where i can learn more about vintage zeniths?


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## everestx

I received this Port Royal model 20-0140-346 today and had to stop the inspection once I got to the the crystal/case seal. I'll leave the inspection of the movement for another day but so far it's running great. The crystal has a few scratches but they hide well against the dial. The day wheel is in Italian/German so I brushed up on day abbreviations really fast.


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## Hartmut Richter

Very neat. The Cal. 346 (or 34.6) denotes an ETA calibre, according to the book it should be the Cal. ETA 2837 but I think that this is a consistent misprint (i.e. it runs throughout the book) and it is actually the high frequency ETA 2832 in Ranfft:

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Zenith 2832

Quick edit: Ranfft states under the ETA 2832 that there are no known differences between the ETA 2832 and the ETA 2837 so it may not be a misprint after all.....

Hartmut Richter


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## sneer

Hartmut Richter said:


> That is a late "Captain" model from ca. 1970. Because of its case shape, it was nicknamed "_La Tortue_" (turtle or tortoise). If it works, it would be a terrible shame to sacrifice it for parts. A crystal polish and a service will do wonders.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks Hartmut!

pack just arrived - first picture before cleaning and light polishing


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## cambrid

You are all very lucky to have such beautiful watches. Vintage Zeniths just ooze class, but why are modern Zeniths so.....err, different? Sorry, I know this isn't a thread to start a dialogue...


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## Hessu

Hartmut Richter said:


> Very neat. The Cal. 346 (or 34.6) denotes an ETA calibre, according to the book it should be the Cal. ETA 2837 but I think that this is a consistent misprint (i.e. it runs throughout the book) and it is actually the high frequency ETA 2832 in Ranfft:
> 
> bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Zenith 2832
> 
> Quick edit: Ranfft states under the ETA 2832 that there are no known differences between the ETA 2832 and the ETA 2837 so it may not be a misprint after all.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


A couple of days ago I was wondering this 2832/2837 stuff also. Reading Rössler, his table does not mention ETA 2832 at all. There is ETA 2837 as cal346.


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## everestx

Hessu said:


> A couple of days ago I was wondering this 2832/2837 stuff also. Reading Rössler, his table does not mention ETA 2832 at all. There is ETA 2837 as cal346.


Had a little time today to look under the hood


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## martinzx

I currently have two Vintage Zeniths in my collection, I am very fond of both of them, the dial on the 'Respirator' is not in great condition, regarding the 'Pilot' I do not know that much about it.........Also my 1st post in the Zenith Forum.......
I hope you enjoy them,


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## Hartmut Richter

Strange - they drilled away the 2832 or 2837 (circular pit next to the "AF") and added their own 346 or 34.6 (next to the geartrain bridge) but they left the ETA stamp.

Hartmut Richter


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## D N Ravenna

Hartmut Richter said:


> Strange - they drilled away the 2832 or 2837 (circular pit next to the "AF") and added their own 346 or 34.6 (next to the geartrain bridge) but they left the ETA stamp.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


I noticed that too. I wonder what the madness behind the method was...

Dan


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## japi

This is 100% similar to my old Zenith Port Royal Quartz i bought in 1981 in Tampere, Finland. I sold the watch in 1982 and recently bought similar watch from the Bay. The price of this watch was 995 FIM back then (corresponds 415 EUR of year 2011's / about 425 USD ) . I'm very happy that i found just the similar Zenith as in 1981 as a highschool student. The condition of the watch is very good. The movement of the watch is ETA 940.111, an original movement Zenith used in these watches.


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## 8675309




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## Hartmut Richter

An interesting looking specimen. Any knowledge of the movement inside? Alternatively, any piccies of the back?

Hartmut Richter


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## 8675309

No photos of the back or movement. Back reads surf stainless steel on top and 01 0480 210 on the bottom.


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## Hessu

Got two new fellas in the family, but not 100 % sure that I will keep 'em in my collection.















A 70's Zenith signed as Sporto. Note a patch someone has done to dial under the name Zenith. Not so visible in real life as in this "mug shot". Late 70's with 2572, a 28.800 A/h with micrometer adjust device. Like these 70's ones with good size.














A 2531. someone has polished partly off the serial number from this one.


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## MichaelB_Can

Here is mine -








Mike B , Canada


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## Hartmut Richter

Nice watch - but it looks as if your date mechanism is slightly wonky.

Hartmut Richter


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## MichaelB_Can

I haven't even wore it . I usually wear a Sub every day . I bought it to wear with a suit . I'll have to check that though , thanks !


Mike B , Canada


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## japi

Here's my "new" Zenith Respirator Automatic 28800 from the first half of the 70's. The movement is Zenith 2562PC (link to Rantff movement site)


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## sempervivens

Congratulations, looks in very good condition. 

Bracelet is not a Zenith I suppose?


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## japi

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations, looks in very good condition.
> 
> Bracelet is not a Zenith I suppose?


Thanks! You're right the bracelet is a new german Eichmüller stainless steel bracelet, 22mm.


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## sneer

and my new one..NOS?


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## MichaelB_Can

Nice !


Mike B , Canada ⌚


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## sempervivens

sneer said:


> and my new one..NOS?


The hands seem relumed, and the crown seems not original, so I doubt it is new old stock.
But it is a worthy addition for your collection. Good pics.


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## sneer

hmm .....in my hands luma looks great and ok 
under foil lid is matte , sides of the case as well, (also between the ears, but ears are shiny)
the crown is similar to many that I have from that time ....


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## sempervivens

sneer said:


> hmm .....in my hands luma looks great and ok
> under foil lid is matte , sides of the case as well, (also between the ears, but ears are shiny)
> the crown is similar to many that I have from that time ....


It does show lume. After 50 years it normally should not have any lume left, so I think it must have been relumed. Nothing wrong with that, possibly part of a service.
Another indication are the lume holes between the hour indices: they are empty.

It has me thinking it could also be a repainted dial: it looks too perfect.

The original crown would have been signed Zenith (for this period : with a star with a Z inside).

Compare with the hands (where the lume has disappeared), slightly blemished dial and original signed crown of this new old stock Sporto : Zenith Sporto cal. 106-6


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## sneer

ok....but  I have several clocks from the years '50 and '60, such as omega pre moon 105.002 with still filled hands, but of course I agree that it could be relumed...

case in my opinion is untouched. I checked with a magnifying glass as well as dial - some dirt on the dial edges, especially around 5. Hourly indexes are clean and minutes are slightly convex, not flooded by paint .

but of course thanks for your opinion and I'm waiting for more 

btw black or dark brown strap will be better suited?


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## Hartmut Richter

sneer said:


> ok....but  I have several clocks from the years '50 and '60, such as omega pre moon 105.002 with still filled hands, but of course I agree that it could be relumed...


I would say the pressing question is whether or not the lume still glows. Modern superluminova should survive for decades but radioactive stuff deteriorates within about 20-30 years. Radium because of the luminescent material (usually Zinc sulfide) and Tritium because of a short half life. If it looks good during the day but is hardly visible at night, it's original.

Hartmut Richter


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## sneer

Fully agree... Please tell me what do You think about this watch


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## Hartmut Richter

I have to say that I wonder whether it is possible for the watch to have sat in a relatively protected environment so that the dial is pristine and the hands aren't. The alternative - and to me probably more plausible - theory is that it's a redial. One point in favour of that is that the 6:00 marker on the secodns subdial does not seem to line up with the number 6:00 (or what little of it is there) on the main dial.

Hartmut Richter


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## sneer

Thanks! I will put here picture with subsecond dial where marker on ss is in line with 6.00 drop


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## Hartmut Richter

Yes, it is in line with the drop - but I was looking more at the numeral 6 (or what little you can see of it). Still, unless subsecond markings *and *drop were redone during redialling, you would expect them to be misaligned. In other words, it does look less like a redial now.....

Hartmut Richter


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## Hessu

It's a redial. Saw this on at Huuto.net, did not place a pid. Finland is a place where the back tape is still on the watch after odd 50 years! Sneer, my name at site is Tashkent. Ain't gonna let you rob good ones out from Finland!


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## sneer

If the painter can paint so well, he is good, very good, or even one of the best on the world! From my point of view is not redialling



and it seems to me that Finland has lost quite a nice watch


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## sempervivens

sneer said:


> If the painter can paint so well, he is good, very good, or even one of the best on the world! From my point of view is not redialling
> 
> 
> 
> and it seems to me that Finland has lost quite a nice watch


I still think it is a redial, well done, but a redial.

The 'Zenith' part is a little better than the 'Pilot'.

If you compare with an original, you can see the difference in the lack of serif in the 'O' of Pilot, but also in the 'L' : the base is too long.

View attachment 982918


Also, the lumeholes at the back of the hourmarkers are empty. Lume doesn't just disappear, it leaves spots. This must have been cleaned and painted over.

This Pilot is about the same age as your watch, the dial is original, showing some dirty spots where the lume used to be (for instance at 3 o clock):

View attachment 982920


From the back we can also see a lot of difference :

View attachment 982921
View attachment 982923


Could Zenith have made two such different Pilots?

And yet, based on the numbers, they are made in the same period, they are less than 30 thousand apart.

I think the one on the left was not originally a Pilot. The redialler has added "Pilot" on the dial.

A Zenith Pilot was always waterproof and for that purpose it had a screwback.

I can show you many vintage Zenith Pilots with screwback (can you show me other Zenith Pilots with a snap-on back?)

The case number 9675010 dates to around 1962-63 (just before Zenith started with the new case numbers with a letter in the middle).

You can see two vintage Zenith Pilots from that period here : this one Zenith Pilot with cal. 40 T dates to ca. 1962 , and this My vintage Zenith Pilot with (extra R.R.) cal. 120 T dates to 1963/64.

The one here above with the snap-on back is more likely a case for a classic dress watch, like a Sporto.

Pop off the back and let's have a look inside.


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## sempervivens

In the 'swiss made' the difference is also obvious:

redial (l.) and original (r.):

View attachment 982947
View attachment 982949


I see a clear difference in the overall length; the letters should appear a little 'compressed', and also the 'W', 'D' and 'E' are different.


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## sneer

*sempervivens* respect for your knowledge and experience!. I think that too hard and too long I'm looking for a nice pilot 

CHAPEAU BAS!

thanks and regards!


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## sempervivens

thank you Sneer


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## sempervivens

I'd just like to add, as far as necessary (which it probably isn't or shouldn't be), that I am just learning as I'm going along, like you.


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## Hessu

These weasels who counterfit dials make life for collectors difficult. I got one like Sneer as well, from a reasent purchase. Hard to spot on a bad internet pic. There were some spots at the dial and I thought it may be real deal, but it wasn't. The easiest thing to spot redial is the gray metalcolor everyone of 'em seem to use. The original dials have been made with 1) base color, 2) printing and 3) on the top a lacquer layer. It seems lacquer without any bubbles is very tricky, so they skip it. So when you have a watch in your hand, moving it under a light, you see the light shine from lacquer layer, it does not shine same way from base paint. 
Sneer, they do not paint the texts by hand, it's like a compterized engravingmachine, only instead of engraving tool or laser, it's got micropietso nosils for paint, that's why the dials on these redials and fake watches are nowadays so good.

View attachment 990491

One with gray dial  
It's got cal 40 and a screw down back.


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## sempervivens

Hessu said:


> These weasels who counterfit dials make life for collectors difficult. I got one like Sneer as well, from a reasent purchase. Hard to spot on a bad internet pic. There were some spots at the dial and I thought it may be real deal, but it wasn't. The easiest thing to spot redial is the gray metalcolor everyone of 'em seem to use. The original dials have been made with 1) base color, 2) printing and 3) on the top a lacquer layer. It seems lacquer without any bubbles is very tricky, so they skip it. So when you have a watch in your hand, moving it under a light, you see the light shine from lacquer layer, it does not shine same way from base paint.
> Sneer, they do not paint the texts by hand, it's like a compterized engravingmachine, only instead of engraving tool or laser, it's got micropietso nosils for paint, that's why the dials on these redials and fake watches are nowadays so good.
> 
> View attachment 990491
> 
> One with gray dial
> It's got cal 40 and a screw down back.


That is a very nice Zenith and a beautiful dial (even if it is a redial).

Allow me to spice up the thread a little with some more vintage Zenith:

View attachment 991880


View attachment 991882


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## sneer

better picture..

'51


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## sempervivens

sneer said:


> better picture..
> 
> '51


Nice _ensemble _! I like that box, I should try and get one like that for my collection.


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## Giuseppe Piersantelli

Hi Everybody
Congratulations on your timepieces. Some of the watches posted here are absolutely awsome. 
This is my '50s era Zenith caliber 126.

View attachment 1008649


The movement was not working , the case was damaged and the dial in poor conditions, so I senti it to a local (and quite affordable) watchmaker for a service. Our agreement was to limit the final cost because the watch's value is not very high.
It will be back tomorrow. I'll post some updates
Regards


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## Hartmut Richter

Well, that one does certainly have its fair share of patina! Still, a nice watch and one with all the more character for its patina - shows that it has a history!

Hartmut Richter


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## Giuseppe Piersantelli

Hartmut Richter said:


> Well, that one does certainly have its fair share of patina! Still, a nice watch and one with all the more character for its patina - shows that it has a history!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks
Actually i think that the cleaning service may have somehow taken that patina away 
On monday i sould receive my watch and i will post some new pics 
Regards


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## Giuseppe Piersantelli

Giuseppe Piersantelli said:


> Thanks
> Actually i think that the cleaning service may have somehow taken that patina away
> On monday i sould receive my watch and i will post some new pics
> Regards


Hi everybody 
my Zenith has just come back from the watchmaker: it received a full service which includes.
- case polishing
- movement overhaul (replacement of the mainspring, cleaning, lube, tune)
- plexi glass polishing
- dial cleaning -- maybe it has lost some of its patina, but know it is superclean
sorry for the picture quality, the light was quite low and the camera is cheap, but it shows how the watche has changed.
Now I would like to replace the strap, whose size by the way is not correct, with something more appropriate and matching with the dial. Suggestions? Thanks !

View attachment 1013569


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## Hartmut Richter

Well, yes, I would certainly call that a clean dial.....

I must say that it is a little difficult to suggest a strap to go with it. Purely style wise, I think the one it is on would be OK.

Hartmut Richter


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## Giuseppe Piersantelli

I tend to agree . Now the dial is superclean and it shows a particular mirror-style effect . Maybe the previous patina was more fashinating But there were too many stains . 
Anyways Now the watch is running and is accuarate , the power riserve is 36hours.
As stated the strap will be replaced soon : the lug size is wrong and the color not very pleasant. 
Thanks for watching and commenting


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## Stewart H

I hate to say this but he has killed the dial. All of the original colour, except for between the letters of ZENITH, has been removed as have the dial markings.

The only thing left is to have the dial re-finished. That won't increase the value of the watch from this point but at least it will look right. That is, unless you can find a replacement dial.


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## Giuseppe Piersantelli

Stewart H said:


> I hate to say this but he has killed the dial. All of the original colour, except for between the letters of ZENITH, has been removed as have the dial markings.
> 
> The only thing left is to have the dial re-finished. That won't increase the value of the watch from this point but at least it will look right. That is, unless you can find a replacement dial.


I see your point. Before sending my Zenith to that watchmaker, I interviewd another copuple of watch repair shops, but they that suggested that the watch value was too low to do something more than servicing the movement. Which is true, generally speaking. You can buy a similar watch in better conditions for 150 euros. And the crazy thing is that a nice dial is rare to find and very expensive (i've been monitoring ebay and forums for weeks). 
So I decided to take a risk and ship the Zenith to the "low cost guy"  Honestly: I won't send him any valuable watch, but this Zenith has been lying dead on the bottom of a drawer for decades, and I wanted to give it a second chance.
The dial, which was covered with stains, has been washed with an ultrasonic washing machine, but the watch guy didn't report which cleaning products have been used. I suspect that the procedure was too harsh (or too long). As a consequence, the damaged paint applied on the dial appears like it faded away. I want to point out that in the posted picture the final effect is more evident and dramatic than it actually is. Anyway, I admit that at first I was a little upset by the new shiny dial. 
This said , I may consider to find another dial or have the current dial repainted in the future.
On the other hand, the service was really good: now the watch works and keeps excellent time (the main spring and 2 retaining screws have been replaced), the case and the plexy were gently polished... 
Thank you for your yime and comments.
Regards
G


----------



## BlondeNV

Sorry about the lousy pictures. Anyway, to our esteemed moderators and other enablers -- thank you. Chris, Lou and Steve, extra thanks. I did do extra checking regarding possible redial, etc. Nice patina, and a couple of people interested in the watch after performing their examination. Dates to '56-'57. Happy Friday!

View attachment 1017771

View attachment 1017770


----------



## Skullerud

Hi, I am new at this forum and here are some images of my vintage Zenith. It is a cal 133.8, but I am not sure what year it is, the 60´s? Unfortunately the dial has a crack all way through, so I will try to find a replacement dial. 
View attachment 1020869
View attachment 1020872
View attachment 1020862
View attachment 1020865


----------



## Hessu

133.8 was in production 1951-58, so it's 50's. Do not make the mistake having it repainted, it nills the collection value to just a case and a movement. Better to have a bad original dial than a fake one. It's a lovely piece, a gold cap case.


----------



## D N Ravenna

Hessu said:


> 133.8 was in production 1951-58, so it's 50's. Do not make the mistake having it repainted, it nills the collection value to just a case and a movement. Better to have a bad original dial than a fake one. It's a lovely piece, a gold cap case.


+1!
Dan


----------



## Hartmut Richter

The movement serial number dates it to 1959.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sneer

next one..


----------



## sempervivens

sneer said:


> next one..


Nice one. Any model number on the back?


----------



## sneer

yes


----------



## sempervivens

sneer said:


> yes


so what is it ? I can't read it. Looks like an early model, maybe 1972-73, when they stamped the model number in small print ;-)


----------



## sneer

true - it is 011280360...?

and new with cal 2562 PC


----------



## Hartmut Richter

sneer said:


> true - it is 011280360...?


That would be the reference number: 01.1280.360, the 360 denoting a Cal. 2572 (380 would be a Cal. 2572 PC).

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sneer

Hartmut Richter said:


> That would be the reference number: 01.1280.360, the 360 denoting a Cal. 2572 (380 would be a Cal. 2572 PC).
> 
> Hartmut Richter


thanks!


----------



## sempervivens

Hartmut Richter said:


> That would be the reference number: 01.1280.360, the 360 denoting a Cal. 2572 (380 would be a Cal. 2572 PC).
> 
> Hartmut Richter


There is a model 01.1290.380 in the 1974-76 catalog, as well as a 01.1300.360. 
The case and dial style of this 01.1280.360 is different, but surely Zenith couldn't include all the models and possible variations in the catalog.


----------



## LtCariad

Hello!

Here are some pictures of my grandfathers Zenith Pilot. I don't know much about it, but it still ticks along really nice.


----------



## nglester

Here is mine. 126-5-6 from the 1950 purchased 4-5 years ago.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Now that is a nice, simplistic design. Any signs of dial retouching?

Hartmut Richter


----------



## nglester

Hello Hartmut
Well, it looks fully original to my untrained eyes, still very accurate so far. (maybe it's time for a service...)

To be honest, you approved this purchase for me 3 years ago. You said everything looks authentic. lol


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Oh, in that case, it *must* be original!!! :-d I am confident that I wouldn't get it wrong.....b-)

Well, I have to admit that I don't remember every watch I am asked about over the years.....;-)

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Deception

Zenith El Primero Chronograph model A 385, made in the 4th quarter of 1971 and purchased brand new by my Dad while in Italy in '73. He wore it a handful of times and then put it away for ~40 years. I decided to replace the factory metal strap with a NATO strap, which I'm still up in the air about it but will suffice until I can find something more suitable. It's nice how precise the time is after not being work for ages.


----------



## MMMD

Deception said:


> Zenith El Primero Chronograph model A 385, made in the 4th quarter of 1971 and purchased brand new by my Dad while in Italy in '73. He wore it a handful of times and then put it away for ~40 years. I decided to replace the factory metal strap with a NATO strap, which I'm still up in the air about it but will suffice until I can find something more suitable. It's nice how precise the time is after not being work for ages.
> 
> http://s207.photobucket.com/user/mezz0italiano/media/IMG_1648_zps133477f2.jpg.html


Great looking watch! If you haven't done so already, you should have it serviced before running it again, even though it's keeping good time. The lubrication will have lost it's effectiveness, and you'll risk damaging the movement. Looks like someone tried to polish the case once, perhaps, but thankfully didn't really muck it up. I would recommend forbidding the watchmaker to polish it if you have it serviced... it's easy to loose those sharp bevels.

What's more suitable than the factory bracelet?!


----------



## sempervivens

Deception said:


> Zenith El Primero Chronograph model A 385, made in the 4th quarter of 1971 and purchased brand new by my Dad while in Italy in '73. He wore it a handful of times and then put it away for ~40 years. I decided to replace the factory metal strap with a NATO strap, which I'm still up in the air about it but will suffice until I can find something more suitable. It's nice how precise the time is after not being work for ages.


I would advise against the nato strap, which can damage the back.

And with Zenith's master watchmaker, I'd advise to leave the watch in peace, as long as it is working well.

You father took very good care of it. I don't see any indication of polishing or much use.


----------



## Hessu

My new green one.







It's not too small, even I do have bit of a working mans wrist! (smallish by today's jumbo watch standards, yes)

I did servive this on Friday, even the seller did say: "It is serviced and runs well!" Well, the same thing all over again. It did run surprisingly well at tester, but my motto is: "Trust no one!" Plenty of oil between the mainplate and bridges (=the wrong place for oil to be), but no oil at Incablocs = Not serviced for years, only a handy man's service. 
Must say one thing, from service point of view. Zenith 2572PC's date quick corrector is an one pain in the you know where to dismantle and put up together again. Evil patent.


----------



## sempervivens

Hessu said:


> My new green one.
> View attachment 1073048
> 
> It's not too small, even I do have bit of a working mans wrist! (smallish by today's jumbo watch standards, yes)
> 
> I did servive this on Friday...


 How about the inside: does it have a suspension-ring for the movement? And does the caseback mention a patent number on the inside?


----------



## RamJam

Longtiome browser -- first time poster... My pride and joy from the early 1950s:


----------



## Stewart H

I would say that the case has been polished. Compare the bottom edge with this untouched one:


----------



## Hessu

Sempers, no patents inside of the case back, only a Zenith logo. Also no suspensionring like Defy has, a metalic ring.


----------



## sempervivens

RamJam said:


> Longtiome browser -- first time poster... My pride and joy from the early 1950s:
> 
> View attachment 1078618
> View attachment 1078619


Now that is lovely, I love those Zenith Excelsior Park chronographs, great movement, beautiful cases, dials and hands, perfect size also.



Stewart H said:


> I would say that the case has been polished. Compare the bottom edge with this untouched one:
> View attachment 1078663


I know what you mean, but I think the unevenness which you see is only a trick of the light. In this picture you can have a closer look at the original polishing :










Hessu said:


> Sempers, no patents inside of the case back, only a Zenith logo. Also no suspensionring like Defy has, a metalic ring.
> 
> View attachment 1079608
> 
> 
> View attachment 1079609


Thank you Hessu!


----------



## sneer

automatic 2572PC


----------



## sempervivens

sneer said:


> automatic 2572PC


What does the back look like? What is the reference?

Looks a lot like my Autosport (see # 28 in this thread)

ps congratulations of course, very nice


----------



## exichlo

I have this manual vintage Zenith but I have no clue what model nor when it was manufactured. Any help with be great!


----------



## Hartmut Richter

It looks like it was very likely made in the fifties. As for model, most Zeniths did not actually belong to a model range at that time. As for precise date, the movement serial number will help use there - and while you are at it, a movement picture would help identify that too.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## lp1974




----------



## rtoip

there's my vintage Zenith I've just received.It looks really good but is not working.
the case number makes me believe that was produced in early 60' but I don't know what's inside(the caliber?)
sooner or later I'll know(rather sooner!)'because I'll be taking it to my watchmaker.
cheers


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Nice looking watch. I hope it can be got going agin. It's definitely from the early to mid 1960s and should therefore have a Cal. 2511 or 2521, perhaps even a 2531 inside (they all look similar and differ only with respect to details).

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Zenith 2511

Hartmut Richter


----------



## rtoip

you're right-there's cal.2531












needs just simple cleaning-seems like never been open before(there are no watchmaker's marks) serial number-6251771
thank you


----------



## rtoip

It's been 9 days since the watch was serviced -running with accuracy of +1.5s/day(gained about 22s/9days)with 50h power reserve;
correcting time-once a month!
winding-once every two days!
awesome!


----------



## peksii

My father got this watch -77. Found the watch from my parents house a while ago and it had been without use for a while. I took it to local clocksmith who serviced it.

Before:









After:


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Nice - see what a new crystal will do for you! What's the reference number on the back?

Hartmut Richter


----------



## peksii

01.1491.360

Heres another pic after service:

[URL


----------



## Hessu

I've got one of those also. A good looking watch from last days of vintage watches. Looks like you have put a Hirsch band to it. At the moment I do have order in for a new dial for my Sporto, it has slightly damaged dial (should be about 180€, if still aviable. Order has been in already for a month and half, wheels of Zenith are slow).


----------



## Longjean

Dumb question: about what year do Zenith watches stop being "vintage"? According to Zenith watches made before 1995 are "historical".


----------



## Hartmut Richter

On Vintage/PW, it is approximately anything from before the quartz crisis which culminated in the early eighties. Since we are moving further away from that date every year, one might stretch it to ca. 1990. I would consider 1995 a touch late.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Longjean

Thanks ,I had thought before 1970, but perhaps1995 is the cut off for Zenith having off the shelf parts available.


----------



## lp1974

imo, definition of vintage watch must be made before at least a certain period before current time. i would say anything made more than 25 years agi to even qualify for vintage. i know of quite a few collectors who believe it has to be at least 50 years, or its just retro. 
i like to consider, the ending of an era to be defining moment too. such as end of a series, brand, design concept, technological method... immediately, something could be consider old school or vintage.


----------



## phsb

Hello all,

I just bought this one and really like it. I think there must have been some water inside at some stage and the case could use some cosmetics, but it runs pretty well and looks ok. Don't know much about it except there's a 133.8 in ticking in it.


----------



## D N Ravenna

Movement looks good though! Thanks for sharing, Dan


----------



## lp1974

phsb, that is a very nice piece!

i just got this, a 2562PC...
cleaned it up a little and will be working on 
replacing an original crown.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

That looks in good condition - hard to believe that there must have been water inside at some stage. Except maybe a touch of humidity or condensation.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Giuseppe Piersantelli

Dear all,
I just wanted to share with you my old Zenith (whose dial was ruined by a "watchmaker") after a dial restoration.
I hope you like it.
Regards


----------



## sempervivens

It is quite nice, certainly better than before. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## sneer

with box.....


----------



## sneer




----------



## sempervivens

sneer said:


> with box.....


Excellent selection


----------



## sneer

thanks

Guys

I need your help - have you seen before this kind of movement description?
Extra RR??? etc., 120 T is rare?


----------



## sempervivens

sneer said:


> thanks
> 
> Guys
> 
> I need your help - have you seen before this kind of movement description?
> Extra RR??? etc., 120 T is rare?


Very nice, looks great. Yes, I've seen that "RR" before, here on the forum. It is rare though. I think Hans knows more about these.


----------



## D N Ravenna

The Sporto models in Rossler's book sport a variety of movements; none of them the 120 T. The S.58, which is a completely different watch, sports a 120 (note no "T"). According to Rossler, there were 2,500 made of that model.

So you have a unique one there. Let's see what the other members have to add.

Thanks for posting!

Dan

P.S. A little further digging indicates that a total of 18,000 120 T movements were made between 1961 and 1963.


----------



## Hans61

Hi
Cal 120-T Extra R.R.?
Help needed with my Zenith watch.


----------



## D N Ravenna

What is interesting is that it is in a Sporto configuration and not a Canadian RR config.

Dan


----------



## sneer

D N Ravenna said:


> What is interesting is that it is in a Sporto configuration and not a Canadian RR config.
> 
> Dan


The question is - where to find more information...? no idea.

http://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian Rail_no424_1991.pdf

I will write to Zenith 
https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/my-vintage-zenith-pilot-728830.html


----------



## sneer

And answer from Zenith....

"This is an automatic answer. Thank you for your interest in ZENITH.

Dear faithful Customer,

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately we do not disclose information relating to the history of watches by email. In order to get comprehensive information on your watch, its movement or its accurate production date, please contact your nearest official ZENITH service centre. After a detailed analysis of your watch, our local team will be able to provide you all the necessary support as to its history and its maintenance.

Sincerely,
Your ZENITH Customer Service

A list of retailers and service centres officially authorised by ZENITH, Branch of LVMH Swiss Manufactures SA, is available on the NETWORK section of our website: Home page. Only these retailers and service centres can guarantee the service and repair of ZENITH watches as they are well-trained and have all the necessary"

Do You know any @adress from Zenith where can I send this question....?
Thanks & regards


----------



## D N Ravenna

If you don't live near a customer service center, tell them that and has for help. You might add that you do not feel comfortable in mailing your watch. 

Best regards,

Dan


----------



## sneer

Thanks Dan. I wil try to use this way...


----------



## peter-g

Cal 2531


----------



## sneer

Nice gold plated watch, from ca.1965, diameter 33mm?


----------



## peter-g

Diameter 34mm, with crown 36mm.


----------



## Jani1

Zenith silver (0.900) pocketwatch. Sold by Van Arcken en Co, Batavia, Soerabaia. Former Dutch Indies (Indonesia)


















15 jewels.Diamant? If somebody has more info on the watch I would appreciate it.
Patent 27541 and 30751: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Zenith_18_5


----------



## Jani1

Zenith pocketwatch Silver (0.800). Damaged dial (belonged to my grandfather.)If somebody has more info on the watch I would appreciate it.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Made in 1920.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Hartmut Richter

And that one was made in 1907. Batavia is the old name for Jakarta.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## D N Ravenna

Jewels are synthetic rubies. No diamonds. 

Although some high-end American pocketwatches did have a balance cap jewel that was sapphire? It was not synthetic ruby.

Cheers!

Dan


----------



## Jani1

On the dial it the word "diamant" in printed in the same fond as the word "zenith". The balance cap jewel is colourless. Did a Zenith pocketwatch exist called Diamant?


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Not to the best of my knowledge.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## D N Ravenna

Jani1 said:


> On the dial it the word "diamant" in printed in the same fond as the word "zenith". The balance cap jewel is colourless. Did a Zenith pocketwatch exist called Diamant?


Sorry, I did not see it on the dial as it is very faint. I imagine it is a model or line of watches sold by Van Arken.

Dan


----------



## Baconeater

My Zenith. I got this from my grandfather (RIP) and I guess it's from late 60's to early 70's? 
Sorry, but this is the only pic I got for the moment.
I'm new to the forum and I really like your nice vintage Zenith's. Now I will send Zenith a mail to see if they can help me with more information about the watch.

It's SS and 14K gold-cap
serial: 40 1380 380 (or 300)


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to the Zenith forum. With that logo, reference number and calibre (380 = 2572 PC), it won't be 1960s. More like mid to late 1970s.

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Zenith 2572PC

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Baconeater

Hartmut Richter said:


> Welcome to the Zenith forum. With that logo, reference number and calibre (380 = 2572 PC), it won't be 1960s. More like mid to late 1970s.
> 
> bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Zenith 2572PC
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thank you. 
Great link.

Ah, so it's a bit younger than my first thought, nice to get some more information I'm still a novice in this.
I love it. The crystal is worn but I don't really see that as a problem yet.


----------



## sneer

new one 2522c 1950


























plus


----------



## sempervivens

sneer said:


> new one 2522c 1950


Wonderful.

SN 5028187 ? Case 9496427?

I think it dates to 1960.

I've seen another cal. 2522C with # 5029350 dated to 17.06.1960.


----------



## Hessu

The Sporto Box
Yes you can't watch football or icehockey from this Sporto box, but it's yet thrilling...
















Left upper cal 126-6, 8969854; lower XL Sporto cal 40, 9213784
Middle upper cal 126-6 9225044; lower cal 40, 9372353 (engraving 24.12.-58)
Right upper cal 120, 9511087; lower cal 40 9615718 (screw down back)









Left upper cal 120 9649639 (screw down back); lower cal 40-T, 9671548
right upper cal 40-T 9674327 (engraving date 20.6.-63); lower cal 120-T 9691262 (screw down back)


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Wow, what a collection! I wish I had even half of those.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## D N Ravenna

I'm with Hartmut here. Thanks for sharing!

Dan


----------



## sempervivens

I like the box and the watches. I'll give this a ten.


----------



## dmirl

I know little about this watch.
I have emailed Zenith about the reg no. on the back, nothing heard yet.
It's going in for a service next week, including new glass - it gains 20secs in each 24hr period.
I bought this because I love the simplicity and elegance of it, I learnt about Zenith after the fact!
Next watch is a Pilot Big Date Special.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Interesting. Does it hack? In that case, it should have a Cal. 120. If not, it will have an (indirect centre second) Cal. 126-50 or something like that.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sempervivens

Based on the SN on the back, it probably dates to 1955/56.

The black dial is the result of a restoration job: the original dial was probably white.

The case looks polished.

+20 seconds in a day is not so bad. This could be adjusted, without need for a full service.

Keep us posted.


----------



## Hessu

Looks like Pilot is missing a bezel ring (= a metal ring round the glass. It has been there with snap tightness like a case back).


----------



## D N Ravenna

Hessu said:


> Looks like Pilot is missing a bezel ring (= a metal ring round the glass. It has been there with snap tightness like a case back).


Nice catch Hessu. I first saw the post on my phone. The picture was too small to tell. Much easier on the full screen!

Dan


----------



## sneer

Thanks *sempervivens* !

next one with cal 120


----------



## sempervivens

Beautiful. Well done.


----------



## sneer

Thanks guys!

This Zenith disease never ends ....till el primero at a reasonable price ...(it will be number 1 in my collection)

number 2 is with me 
pre moon 105.002 from '62









and one from my last purchase has just returned from overhaul - I was looking for it a year for my brother as a gift










Dan - thanks for the advice!

I got a reply from Zenith that my request for the RR Extra has been sent to the factory ... we will see


----------



## sneer

brothers in arms.....


----------



## Hessu

Ain't a bad week, when you get 3 Zeniths to the family! 
At last I found a Respirator.









The dial has "suffered a bit, but I think its a beayty!









































Inside a 2542PC. Serviced approx a hour ago! Running all fine!


----------



## Hessu

The Second one exchanged hands with only 72 euros. Seller is a pro vintage watchtrader, but what do they know. He probs thought this is worthless due suffered dial!

























Movement is 126-6, serial 9232311, so it's from the late -50's, maybe 1956-57. Diam of the watch without the crown is 34mm.

The third Zenith is a Elite 670, but it does not belong to this thread.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Two nice watches there. Well, the Elite was introduced in 1994 so, depending on the exact age of the watch, we might not throw you out on this thread.....;-)

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Hans61

Hi Hessu
Would you say us your Respirator's movement- and case-number?
Thanks


----------



## Hessu

Oh, forgot the case number. It's 795A176.
Movement is of course 2542PC.
(I thought, it can be seen from the pic. Only 2542PC has 25 stones engraved to oscillating weight and a stud with jewels as bearing. 
2522PC has different looking oscillating weight and 28 stones engraved to it. 2532PC has 30 stones engraved to oscillating weight (no other visible differences to 2542PC apart the caliber no). And from 2552PC on movements have ball bearing on oscillating weight and looks therefore totally different)


----------



## Sakonioli

My new Golden Captain powered with Cal. 2522P.17 has just arrived. Its dial is pristine. Hand and hour index shapes are stunning.

It is sent to get CLA, crystal replacement and polished. I will post pics again once I receive my Captain back


----------



## sempervivens

Sakonioli said:


> My new Golden Captain powered with Cal. 2522P.17 has just arrived. Its dial is pristine. Hand and hour index shapes are stunning.


It is stunning, congrats.

@ Hessu: beautiful watches. 
The Respirator has a marvellous, rare dial. 
With that case number I would guess it has a movement number in the 64xxxxx range and dates to 1966-67.


----------



## Hessu

sempervivens said:


> @ Hessu: beautiful watches.
> The Respirator has a marvellous, rare dial.
> With that case number I would guess it has a movement number in the 64xxxxx range and dates to 1966-67.


Inside the caseback is 6 - 66. My understanding is that, it is the month and year of making of the case: June 1966.


----------



## sempervivens

Hessu said:


> Inside the caseback is 6 - 66. My understanding is that, it is the month and year of making of the case: June 1966.


Right of course :-d

Movement number is under the balance, maybe you can see it in your pics?


----------



## Hessu

Popped it open and checked the serial no, it's 6450240.


----------



## sempervivens

Hessu said:


> Popped it open and checked the serial no, it's 6450240.


Thank you Hessu, that is excellent information for the database, for those of us who try to keep track.


----------



## sneer

and new one.. 



















still no answer from zenith about RR....

*Sakonioli* - captain from ebay?


----------



## Sakonioli

still no answer from zenith about RR....

*Sakonioli* - captain from ebay? [/QUOTE]

Yes, I bought it from the bay. Its dial and hands are better than my expectation. Gold capped is in perfect condition. Back side of the case has many tiny pits from rusty corrosion. I got it back from CLA yesterday. With new crystal replacement and case polish, it looks great on my small wrist.

















Anyway, I got one Zenith Cal.120 RR in a Pilot model. I have no info about it as well. Nonetheless, RR calibre looks more beautiful with more adjusted positions than those ordinary Cal.120 movement. Just keep it


----------



## Hartmut Richter

My, oh my, that must be a *really* old Cal. 25X2 P (presumably 2522 P)! The rotor even lacks the gap in the middle area. Without the movement picture, I would have sworn that there should be a Cal. 133.8 inside. A nice example of a transitional piece between the old and the new (Martel) automatic calibres from around 1960.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## nokard

.

Zenith Automatic Captain

This is my father's watch that I hope to inherit someday in the future. I think he purchased it in the late 60's and it took a weeks salary to buy it. I have no idea what it may be worth now days.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

It looks as if it is missing the seconds hand and could do with some TLC. However, I see a date - and the style is the same as the Cal. 133.8 watches of the fifties. I rather doubt that it is from the late sixties (unless bought second hand) - the early sixties is the latest that Zenith made watches in that style. If it is from the fifties, that would mean that it could well have a Cal. 71 (date version of the Cal. 133.8). If so, you have quite a rare watch (only 15000 pecimens of the Cal. 71 made - and not all of them ended up in that style of watch!). When you shake the watch, does something thud around inside? If so, it is definitely a Cal. 71. In which case, your dad had better watch out or I'll pay his house a midnight visit - that is one of my grail watches!

Hartmut Richter


----------



## nokard

@ Hartmut


I just happen to be over my parents home for dinner and my father says he thinks he got this watch in 1965, but he's not exactly sure. There is no second hand and it does make a thud noise when you shake the watch. If this is a rare watch, what do you think it's worth? I'm really curious now. He doesn't wear it very often and now he's all excited about having a rare watch after reading your post. Lol!

I've been searching the internet for similar watches and I can't seem to find one without a seconds hand.


----------



## Hessu

My bet would be that, it is 2522PC. The dial of bumpers are more domed than ones of rotor automatics, of course it's hard to estimate that from photo.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

If it clearly thuds when you shake it - which should be just about audible but certainly can be clearly felt by the one holding the watch - it must be a bumper wind watch. The style also suggests it. And, since it has a date, it would then be a Cal. 71 (unless it's a fake and there is an entirely different movement inside - unlikely!). And there were only 15000 Cal. 71s made, ever! All references.

Of course, the watch is not worth thousands, especially in that state. However, if done up and given a suitable seconds hand, it would be worth more than the average Zenith of that type. And Zeniths are already worth more than the average watch of that type.

(Before you ask, no, we don't give precise valuations - the reasons are described in the forum rules and guidelines.)

Enjoy the watch once you get hold of it - preferably before the old man passes away. It's worth quite a bit but it's certainly not worth losing a father for.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## nokard

Thanks for the info Hartmut. It definitely thuds when shaken. I don't think it's a fake. Honestly, I didn't read the rules, but I think I have a monetary figure after I google searched for the price. One day I'll have it looking like it's new.


----------



## Hessu

Here's my first 106. It's fine one. 106-P-6. As Pince' it is a top shelf example. The case is chromed, because of it's a wartime baby. Serial numbers Case 8483863 and movement 3552761 dates it to 1945. 
One of the first models with some waterproofness, the gasget is made of led. Crown is not original Zenith. Case diameter is 33mm. Movement of course 10,5" = 23,40mm.


----------



## sempervivens

Hessu said:


> Here's my first 106. It's fine one. 106-P-6. As Pince' it is a top shelf example. The case is chromed, because of it's a wartime baby. Serial numbers Case 8483863 and movement 3552761 dates it to 1945.
> One of the first models with some waterproofness, the gasget is made of led. Crown is not original Zenith. Case diameter is 33mm. Movement of course 10,5" = 23,40mm.
> 
> View attachment 1262733
> 
> 
> View attachment 1262734


Very nice! b-)

Probably dates to March 1946. Compare # 3545119 (cal. 12-4-P-50 made 15.02.1946), # 3577995 (8499085)(cal 106-P made June 1946) and # 3598268 (cal 12-4-P-6 made 16.09.1946).


----------



## Hessu

OK! Thanks for more accurate info. By the way spotted that Rössler claims that 106 models have 17 jewels and strangey 106-50-6 only 16 jewels, but the correct number is 15.


----------



## sneer

Hessu congrat  next time


----------



## El Padre

01.0171.415 after service 



















with older brother:










;-)


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Wonderful! When I was (a little) younger, I thought that these were really weird looking. Now, I would love to have one - or, even better, the equivalent Zenith.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Hessu

sneer said:


> Hessu congrat  next time


Yep, like I said it is my first 106, had to have it! 
(For others who wonder what we're talking about. Sneer and I had a bit of a bidding competition over my new 106-P-6. We did not know exactly what it was, only a face pic of the dial side in auction.)


----------



## abzack

There are many beautiful watches in this thread. I'd like to share mine with you. The Sporto just arrived today.


----------



## sempervivens

Nice collection, beautiful Sporto, thank you for sharing


----------



## yledre

Hi all,

Just joined as a member after many months of skimming this great site. I'm a '60s chronograph enthusiast and small scale amateur collector.

Last week I found this pretty worn Zenith Pilot in one of my grandmother's shoe boxes, full of other "antiques". The Zenith has slept there, never touched, for at least 50 years.

This of course, is a common tale..... BUT, when I wound this old thing, it began ticking away immediately AND....... after 48 hours, it was running a mere 4 seconds slow, WOW.

Amazing to me.

Cheers


----------



## rug777

My latest zenith, a 34mm manual wind. Not actually sure what model or year it is so if anyone can shed any light I'd be grateful...


----------



## Telban

Well I am here now so i may as well put this one in from another thread....


----------



## abzack

sempervivens said:


> Nice collection, beautiful Sporto, thank you for sharing


Thank you, sempervivens!


----------



## sempervivens

yledre said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just joined as a member after many months of skimming this great site. I'm a '60s chronograph enthusiast and small scale amateur collector.
> 
> Last week I found this pretty worn Zenith Pilot in one of my grandmother's shoe boxes, full of other "antiques". The Zenith has slept there, never touched, for at least 50 years.
> 
> This of course, is a common tale..... BUT, when I wound this old thing, it began ticking away immediately AND....... after 48 hours, it was running a mere 4 seconds slow, WOW.
> 
> Amazing to me.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> View attachment 1267636
> View attachment 1267629
> View attachment 1267635


Welcome to the forum and congratulations, that Pilot looks very good. And yes: Zenith's precision is admirable. Any plans to get a new crystal installed?


----------



## sempervivens

rug777 said:


> My latest zenith, a 34mm manual wind. Not actually sure what model or year it is so if anyone can shed any light I'd be grateful...


Nice Zenith, by the looks of it I would say it dates to around 1960. Pictures of the movement and back and serial numbers could help to date it more exactly. Garrard is a jeweller and apparently had their name added to the dial, like some other jewellers did with other brands as well.


----------



## yledre

Thank you for the welcome, sempervivens. 
Yes, I will try to find a new original chrystal, have the case cleaned and slightly polished.
Cheers


----------



## Hessu

Yep, it's a good looking Pilot well worth to have be repaired.


----------



## sempervivens

yledre said:


> Thank you for the welcome, sempervivens.
> Yes, I will try to find a new original chrystal, have the case cleaned and slightly polished.
> Cheers


I would not have the case polished, why would you?


----------



## Hessu

I would, correctly done, it'll give the watch back it's old glory. Of course the polish can be done badly, but that goes with everything in life. A polish is part of a good class A restauration job.


----------



## sneer

and last one ... cal. 2522


----------



## Hessu

My new sand color Defy with the "ladder" metalband... 2552PC, 333D396

































I got it in a nice original Zenith box.


----------



## sempervivens

Wow, what an incredible day for you, St. Benignus is with you. This is excellent, a first series Zenith Defy in perfect condition, superb original dial and hands. I would say this is rare in this excellent original condition, the best I've ever seen. The big size 1969 box is also a rarity, beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Enjoy!


----------



## Hessu

Forgot to take and post a photo of the box. It has the seller firm's neat logo on a corner, a French wall pendlum clock! It looks cool! Will photo it tomorrow and post it!


----------



## eparisini




----------



## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to the Zenith forum. You had better stay in Italy - I generally regard that as a watch to kill for!! (Especially since my bank manager doesn't allow me to get one.....!)

Wear it in good health for the rest of your life.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## D N Ravenna

Indeed, welcome! Congratulations on your Zenith. May it serve you well.

Dan


----------



## eparisini

Tnx for the wellcome!


----------



## sneer

last one


----------



## sneer

and the last one


----------



## sempervivens

sneer said:


> and the last one


It is not so easy to find such an old watch with such a beautiful dial and all in very good condition.
Sneer, I say you have put together a remarkable collection, and you have chosen your prey very well: among all the different Swiss brands, there can't be a better deal than these vintage Zeniths, and among all the vintage Zeniths, there can't be a better deal than these old, more or less anonymous models, and among all those anonymous old Zeniths out there, you have found and selected the best, with amazing beautiful original dials. Congratulations and wear them in good health!


----------



## sneer

thank you very much - you're embarrassing me ...

inside cal 106 P-6 no. 3552339 -do you know how old could be?


----------



## sempervivens

sneer said:


> thank you very much - you're embarrassing me ...
> 
> inside cal 106 P-6 no. 3552339 -do you know how old could be?


I would estimate April 1946 (compare with Hessu's cal. 106-P-6) give or take a month...


----------



## haga888

Mangled case but the dial and hands are very nice.


----------



## sneer

hands can be restored...?


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Possibly. Unfortunately, it's the case that needs restoring here.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## haga888

I think the hands are fine. The case is going to Belgium for restoration. Not a lot to work with though.


----------



## sempervivens

haga888 said:


> Mangled case but the dial and hands are very nice.


 Beautiful dial and hands. Terrific.

Case has seen life, but hey, it's a 40 year old used watch. At least you can wear it without fear of scratches.

Crown looks a bit small, but that can be replaced.



>


Nice wristshot. It looks great on that simple black strap.

Congratulations on this rare piece. Thanks for sharing.

ps Looking forward to the results of the restoration.


----------



## sempervivens

The A384 went for a short break to the watchmaker, to remove some dust particles I had spotted on the dial, and to regulate it.

Back on my wrist, the precision of the Zenith El Primero still amazes me: during the past four days it hasn't gained or lost a second.


----------



## Hessu

A new Pilot in the family!

















It has cal 126-5-6 inside. No usual Zenith Pilot text on the case back, only serial. Movement serial number dates it to 1954. Case diameter is "only" 34mm without the crown. Crown is original star with Z in it.


----------



## Hessu

Also a 133.8 in da house, serviced it yesterday. It's gold plated with 80 micron case, a bit scratchy, but not worn out. Serial dates it to 1954.
Always think that bumpers are huge, but this is only 35mm diameter. Of course it is big if you compare with 40's watches like Zenith's with 106, case diam around 30mm. But I have seen bigger Zenith bumpers around 37-38mm.

























It is kinda wierd, even these bumpers are well respected, as a movement it is totally out of date, a relic. If you need to replace a mainspring, you have to dismantle practically the whole damn thing. The automatic mainspring is like in old Eterna's: a separate automatic end spring and a normal spring to reserve the power. Works OK in Eterna's, but usually you have trouble getting a minimum movement from ballance wheel. Here we went over the limit only just. It does not help that power reserve is shortish, 35h. After all downfalls, gotta respect it being a milestone in a watch history.







The barrel arbour and two springs.
More pics from assembling:


----------



## sneer

Congrat Hessu!


----------



## D N Ravenna

Very nice Hessu, thanks! My only bumper (not a Zenith) is non functioning. Gotta admit, they all look good from that age!

Dan


----------



## sempervivens

Hessu said:


> Also a 133.8 in da house, serviced it yesterday. It's gold plated with 80 micron case, a bit scratchy, but not worn out. Serial dates it to 1954.
> Always think that bumpers are huge, but this is only 35mm diameter. Of course it is big if you compare with 40's watches like Zenith's with 106, case diam around 30mm. But I have seen bigger Zenith bumpers around 37-38mm.
> 
> It is kinda wierd, even these bumpers are well respected, as a movement it is totally out of date, a relic. If you need to replace a mainspring, you have to dismantle practically the whole damn thing. The automatic mainspring is like in old Eterna's: a separate automatic end spring and a normal spring to reserve the power. Works OK in Eterna's, but usually you have trouble getting a minimum movement from ballance wheel. Here we went over the limit only just. It does not help that power reserve is shortish, 35h. After all downfalls, gotta respect it being a milestone in a watch history.
> 
> The barrel arbour and two springs.
> More pics from assembling:


Thank you for the beautiful and informative post. And the Pilot is very beautiful too :-!


----------



## everestx

Giving this Cal 71 bumper some wrist time this weekend


----------



## Hessu

18 karats inna box! Bought a Zenith gold watch, with a original box, but I am not gonna keep it. I'm not a gold watch man. I'm gonna make a profit! Measured the weight of the case, as it was a subject here, as a dutch guy who criminally melted the case, asked the weight of a Defy. Well, here is not much work for watch-history-criminals, the case only weights 14,5 grams, and this is an automatic, bigger case than a mechanical watch (with 2542) that is more usual gold Zenith.








It is 2562PC. Must say I have seen plenty of Zenith gold watches and in all of 'em case back threads sucks. Also in this. To close one well you need a diverswatch case closer and you need to ballance the case back with fingers to get it to the thred. Also Zenith's quartz gold watch sucks! In that the movement rings poor, you need to adjust the movement or you have trouble closing the case. There you guys have it, a big no no!









with a nice original box from turn of 60's and 70's. See, late 60's logo in the box. I bet Sempers likes the box!

















Engraving tells it has been given to some poor soul for 20 years work at Strömberg Ab (Ab =Ltd) a Swedish firm (operates also here in Finland) that does industrial electrical stuff like Windmill turbines and such.









Had a hell of a work, somebody had messed with the wheels end operating space, had to re-adjust them. Hate amateurs who mess things like that, there is absolutely no need for to touch 'em in any Swiss watches.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Well, I certainly like it! One thing I find interesting is that the logo is a star but the crown has the newer square logo. Either the crown is a replacement or the whole thing is transitional. Which is what you would expect since it was presented in 1974 but probably dates to a few years earlier (presumably it had been in the shop a year or two before being bought and handed out in 1974.....).

Hartmut Richter


----------



## georges zaslavsky

I am mostly known in the Omega and vintage forums but I am a huge fan of Zenith too.
I went 35 the 30th November , and a friend of my uncle who had sold me the 1969 aquastar benthos 500, knew I had in interest in one of his daily wearers.
I decided to make a credit and asked him if he was interested to part with his daily wearer because you never have 35th years old twice and he knows me well. I have made a relative bargain but I don't regret it. Now I am the happy owner of a rare watch an electroplated gold 1975 el primero ref 20-0220-418 in excellent condition. The watch was given to my favorite watchmaker Charly for a full mechanical overhaul (he is one of the few watchmakers in the parisian area and in France) to make overhaul on el primeros, I also ordered a custom made camille fournet black ostrich with yellow stitchings strap.


----------



## Hessu

Hartmut Richter said:


> Well, I certainly like it! One thing I find interesting is that the logo is a star but the crown has the newer square logo. Either the crown is a replacement or the whole thing is transitional. Which is what you would expect since it was presented in 1974 but probably dates to a few years earlier (presumably it had been in the shop a year or two before being bought and handed out in 1974.....).
> 
> Hartmut Richter


There was a non-signed crown, but I replaced it with this 70's Zenith crown. After all it is 70's Zenith. Forgot to mention the ref it's 30 0291 290. Production of 2562PC started 1972. Funny it still does have the star in the dial. This is not how ever no speciality, I have serviced at least two identical ones for customers.
Yes the watch is not ugly, but I'll put it for sale on my website. (I feel a bit guilty buying so many watches this year)... maybe nobody will buy it and it'll stay in the family.


----------



## sempervivens

Hessu said:


> Production of 2562PC started 1972.


That is a mistake in Rössler. Production of 2562 PC started early in 1970. See for instance the "TV" Defy https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/zeni...econd-series-1970-a-953910-2.html#post7115714

Zenith automatics in gold are relatively rare, congratulations with this beautiful watch.

Even the inscription on the back is nice. Don't see the reference number, is it between the lugs?

Beautiful box too, this would also be suitable for a vintage Zenith El Primero A386 on a leather strap :-!

Wear it in good health


----------



## andsan




----------



## Hessu

sempervivens said:


> That is a mistake in Rössler. Production of 2562 PC started early in 1970. See for instance the "TV" Defy https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/zeni...econd-series-1970-a-953910-2.html#post7115714
> 
> Zenith automatics in gold are relatively rare, congratulations with this beautiful watch.
> 
> Even the inscription on the back is nice. Don't see the reference number, is it between the lugs?
> 
> Beautiful box too, this would also be suitable for a vintage Zenith El Primero A386 on a leather strap :-!
> 
> Wear it in good health


What, Rössler messed up again! Well that explains also the old style star in several 2562PC models. The serial is as usually in gold Zenith watches inside the case back.


----------



## Hessu

Here's an another. I am ashamed to confess that I have dissed this model several times as looking boring and dull. Why did Zenith even bother. The style is a bit similar to early 70's Omega Geneve model. Main difference is Omega has 31,6mm glass/dial and 34,0mm case, Zenith has 33,0mm glass/dial and 35,0mm case. The watch has a mat finish at top and also silver dial has mat surface. (Somebody had polished the mat finish off from the case and it looked like piece of soap, but I restored it. Also the glass was replaced with normal glass, not the one with armoured tensionring, it is supposed to have. This a very typical mistake, always must be checked.) Well in "flesh" the watch is absolutely gorgeous!
The second hand in the watch looks like it has been altered, possibly has been black like hour and minute, but the color may have been polished off, due confusion in time reading. In first pic second hand looks yellowish, but it's silver.















It has 2542 movement inside. Serial 210D461.















Here's the Omega I was referring to. This one with calender, cal 613, but model without calender, cal 601 is more common.


----------



## jspollmann

Bought it yesterday; a 1970's Zenith respirator (television):


----------



## georges zaslavsky

jspollmann said:


> Bought it yesterday; a 1970's Zenith respirator (television):
> 
> View attachment 1320161


very cool zenith


----------



## sneer

38mm from 1955...


----------



## georges zaslavsky

sneer said:


> 38mm from 1955...


nice quality timepiece:-!


----------



## Sri

A "Star" in my collection...


----------



## Hessu

Sneer, is that really 38mm diameter? I've got one of those XL-size Zeniths from 50's, and it is "only" 36mm. Even that 2mm extra for standard size 34mm makes it look big.


----------



## andsan




----------



## sneer

yes, it is.

this one is also 38mm but from 1951


----------



## andsan




----------



## abzack




----------



## sempervivens

That seems to be a rare Defy : do you have more information, such as model number on the back, which movement has it, have you seen others like this... ?


----------



## abzack

sempervivens said:


> That seems to be a rare Defy : do you have more information, such as model number on the back, which movement has it, have you seen others like this... ?


Sorry for my delayed response. Anything you can tell me about this Defy would be most interesting.
There is no model number on the outside of the case back. I haven't had it opened yet, but from the seller the following is on the inside of the caseback: 
NR 50 03X-X Swiss Made Pat. 4938XX









Here is a picture of the movement from the seller:









Here are some pictures of the caseback:


----------



## abzack

This one arrived today.


----------



## sempervivens

Lovely. Cal. 2562 ?


----------



## abzack

sempervivens said:


> Lovely. Cal. 2562 ?


You are correct, Sir. 2562


----------



## abzack

Wearing this again today. Thought I'd post a wristie.


----------



## sempervivens

abzack said:


> Wearing this again today. Thought I'd post a wristie.


Any more information about this, such as number on the back, movement,...?


----------



## abzack

sempervivens said:


> Any more information about this, such as number on the back, movement,...?


Sempervivens, I did respond to your previous post. My response is post #290.
There is no model number on the outside of the case back. I haven't had it opened yet, but from the seller the following is on the inside of the caseback: NR 50 03X-X Swiss Made Pat. 4938XX

My previous post has pictures of the inside and outside of the caseback and a pic of the movement. I look forward to hearing what you can tell me from the information available. Thanks and cheers!

Sent from my ME173X using Tapatalk


----------



## sempervivens

abzack said:


> Sempervivens, I did respond to your previous post. My response is post #290.
> There is no model number on the outside of the case back. I haven't had it opened yet, but from the seller the following is on the inside of the caseback: NR 50 03X-X Swiss Made Pat. 4938XX
> 
> My previous post has pictures of the inside and outside of the caseback and a pic of the movement. I look forward to hearing what you can tell me from the information available. Thanks and cheers!


Sorry, I missed your previous post, thank you for that. The movement is not original to this watch, which confirms suspicion that it is cobbled together. I was suspicious because the dial and hands don't look original for this model (never seen this combination before and it seems unlikely to have gold details and hands in a steel Defy). The dial and hands must belong to another model (a gold Defy?). The green plastic movement ring is not the right one for the Zenith Defy, it is more what one would expect for a cal. 2552 PC in a Zenith Autosport; but the rotor has '17 jewels' which would only be correct for cal. 2572 PC. If it has quickset for the date in the third position of the crown, it is a cal. 2572 PC. It still looks nice though, because the dial and hands go well together, and the tonneau case has huge wrist presence.


----------



## abzack

Thanks for the info Sempervivens. Live and learn, but I'm not too disappointed with it. The combination works for me. It does not have a quick date set. Ill open the caseback when I have time and take better pics of the movement.

Sent from my ME173X using Tapatalk


----------



## sneer

cold day .... 

**


----------



## sempervivens

sneer said:


> cold day ....


Spectacular! congratulations


----------



## Zedapostrphe

Hello from new member.
First of all congratulation for making this place the best place for content rich information about vintage Zenith, and that by a long, long mile.
Here a picture of one of my vintage Zeniths. Nothing major but still quite interesting.
Z'


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to the forum and nice watch! Now, can we have the other side, please?

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Zedapostrphe

Hartmut Richter said:


> Welcome to the forum and nice watch! Now, can we have the other side, please?
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thank you Hartmut.
Off course you can. Here you are. Manual movement inside...
Z'









oops, a quick edit as I forgot adding that the watch came with this bracelet.








(my bracelet but not my picture)


----------



## sempervivens

Zedapostrphe said:


> Hello from new member.
> First of all congratulation for making this place the best place for content rich information about vintage Zenith, and that by a long, long mile.
> Here a picture of one of my vintage Zeniths. Nothing major but still quite interesting.
> Z'


Welcome to the forum!


----------



## Zedapostrphe

Thank you sempervirens.
Will be posting some EP vintage content in due course.
Z'


----------



## sempervivens

Zedapostrphe said:


> Thank you sempervirens.


Sempervirens? Are you referring to the Sequoia sempervirens?









I'm more fond of Sempervivum though.








And El Primero's of course!



Zedapostrphe said:


> Will be posting some EP vintage content in due course.
> Z'


b-)


----------



## Zedapostrphe

Oops, sorry sempervivens. Sorry for misspelling your name and for the lapsus linguae. No harm intended. But you are spot on. Beside my family, plants and watches are my 2 passions in life. I love houseleek and sequoia inspire and command such a lot of respect.
I not too sure where it is best of posting pictures of my watches. I can't say that the S58 has been noticed by many. In my book this diver's watch is not that common...

Here is another one getting closer to a something that is close to your heart. I hope you and others will like it.
Best
Z'


----------



## sempervivens

Zedapostrphe said:


> Oops, sorry sempervivens. Sorry for misspelling your name and for the lapsus linguae. No harm intended. But you are spot on. Beside my family, plants and watches are my 2 passions in life. I love houseleek and sequoia inspire and command such a lot of respect.
> I not too sure where it is best of posting pictures of my watches. I can't say that the S58 has been noticed by many. In my book this diver's watch is not that common...
> 
> Here is another one getting closer to a something that is close to your heart. I hope you and others will like it.
> Best
> Z'
> 
> View attachment 1358464


Wonderful. The S.58 is indeed a rare and collectible watch, but if I had a choice, I'd go for this one: even if it is not so old and not a vintage yet, this first series De Luca has been on my list since a long time now.

Posting in a separate, new thread could attract more attention, and many of the watches posted here do deserve a thread of their own. You can still do that of course.


----------



## Zedapostrphe

Thank you for your compliment, sempervivens.
Yes, I'd also go for that one between the 2. But you know how it goes, sometimes, most of the times one cannot choose. One simply has to go for or pass the watch that one stumbles upon.
I love this particular one for many reasons. The rivalry with the then oh so popular Daytonas (there is site a lot of similitudes of course) but also and especially for the retro-reference to Zenith divers watch in the 60's that was sporting a manual movement, off course, but similar type of hands. It was 3 sub counters chronograph equipped with cal. 146HP, if I remember correctly. A watch that I must acquire someday, as it is a missing link in my collection of vintage sport chronographs. A watch that not only announces the EP DLI but also the famous Cairelli.;-) If only I could lay my hands on a good specimen... As we are on the hands, notice that those on this watch are luming differently than the indexes, which makes for the most stunning effect. I still think they are original. This sometimes also occurs on old Submariners.
Best
Z'


----------



## sempervivens

Zedapostrphe said:


> Thank you for your compliment, sempervivens.
> Yes, I'd also go for that one between the 2. But you know how it goes, sometimes, most of the times one cannot choose. One simply has to go for or pass the watch that one stumbles upon.
> I love this particular one for many reasons. The rivalry with the then oh so popular Daytonas (there is site a lot of similitudes of course) but also and especially for the retro-reference to Zenith divers watch in the 60's that was sporting a manual movement, off course, but similar type of hands. It was 3 sub counters chronograph equipped with cal. 146HP, if I remember correctly. A watch that I must acquire someday, as it is a missing link in my collection of vintage sport chronographs. A watch that not only announces the EP DLI but also the famous Cairelli.;-) If only I could lay my hands on a good specimen... As we are on the hands, notice that those on this watch are luming differently than the indexes, which makes for the most stunning effect. I still think they are original. This sometimes also occurs on old Submariners.
> Best
> Z'


Right! thank you for reminding me that I don't need the De Luca as long as I have this one!


----------



## Zedapostrphe

Yep, that's the one sempervivens. 
One that I am looking for&#8230; waiting for the right one to come by. Congratulations, superb dial and hands.
Onto something slightly different.









Best
Z'

PS. I think I'll stop here as this is turning into a one to one dialog that we could have had by private mail...


----------



## sempervivens

sempervivens said:


> Right! thank you for reminding me that I don't need the De Luca as long as I have this one!


Who am I fooling? I need the black dial De Luca! it combines the classic design of the Zenith A277 with the El Primero movement. It was a "vintage reissue" _avant la lettre_, before any company had yet thought of making "new vintages".

There is nothing like a panda dial. I recently did some research on https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/first-panda-938582.html : the first were reverse panda's (black dial with white subdials) made by Breitling (Transocean) in the late 1950's, followed by Heuer Autavia's in the early 1960's. The first true panda (white dial with black subdials) was the Rolex Cosmograph Daytona in 1963, and I think a true panda dial will forever be associated with the Rolex Daytona.


----------



## sempervivens

Zedapostrphe said:


> Yep, that's the one sempervivens.
> One that I am looking for&#8230; waiting for the right one to come by. Congratulations, superb dial and hands.
> Onto something slightly different.
> 
> Best
> Z'
> 
> PS. I think I'll stop here as this is turning into a one to one dialog that we could have had by private mail...


What a teaser! You should post these in a separate thread. b-)

See what happened to Sneer: he posted his superb A384 in this thread, and nobody reacted!

Then in a separate thread he did get a few reactions.


----------



## VinDefy

sempervivens said:


> What a teaser! You should post these in a separate thread. b-)
> 
> See what happened to Sneer: he posted his superb A384 in this thread, and nobody reacted!
> 
> Then in a separate thread he did get a few reactions.


I fully agree&#8230;there are so many watches in this thread that currently don't get the attention which they deserve. The issue is that if you don't visit this forum daily, this thread doesn't invite you to post feedback because very often other watches and comments have been posted in the meanwhile after the post on which you would be interested in posting some feedback...

Kind regards,
VinDefy


----------



## Zedapostrphe

sempervivens said:


> Who am I fooling? I need the black dial De Luca! it combines the classic design of the Zenith A277 with the El Primero movement. It was a "vintage reissue" _avant la lettre_, before any company had yet thought of making "new vintages".
> 
> There is nothing like a panda dial. I recently did some research on https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/first-panda-938582.html : the first were reverse panda's (black dial with white subdials) made by Breitling (Transocean) in the late 1950's, followed by Heuer Autavia's in the early 1960's. The first true panda (white dial with black subdials) was the Rolex Cosmograph Daytona in 1963, and I think a true panda dial will forever be associated with the Rolex Daytona.
> 
> View attachment 1359412


I thought you'd be interested... ;-)
Many thanks for your quick historical perspective and for your link about panda dials. It is most interesting.
Nice EP you also have there. Is that also a 1st gen De Luca? I only knew of the paper knife and the mercedes hands. I much prefer the former for the very reason that you state. But those are kind of cool too.

Thanks for your suggestion of posting watches individually on this forum. I'll do so when I get more time. A new heavy working week beckons ahead.

Thanks again for your warm welcome and for all your input
Z'


----------



## Zedapostrphe

Thanks VinDefy,
I will do so... 
Z'


----------



## sempervivens

Zedapostrphe said:


> Is that also a 1st gen De Luca?
> Z'


Yes it is. There were 790 made of the white dial. Here is a catalog picture (the rest of the thread is also very informative).

I remember another member who got both the black and white first series De Luca: https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/white-zenith-de-luca-760768.html#post5543997


----------



## PZG302

Hi,

As my first post I am after some information on a Zenith watch my late father left to me.

















It was given to him by my Grandmother for his 21st birthday in 1960, so I would assume the watch would have been manufactured in the late 1950's and sold in Australia.

Any help in identifying the model and any information about the watch would be appreciated.

It still keeps great time and in my opinion is a great looking watch, nicely understated and simple with easy an easy to read face.

Thanks in advance,
Matt


----------



## sempervivens

that is correct, manufactured in the late '50s, maybe 1957. Could you confirm the number on the back?
The movement could be several different ones, does it have hack seconds?


----------



## PZG302

sempervivens said:


> that is correct, manufactured in the late '50s, maybe 1957. Could you confirm the number on the back?
> The movement could be several different ones, does it have hack seconds?


Thanks for the quick reply.

The number on the back reads 9297882. And if by hack seconds you mean the second hand has a "jerky" movement rather than a constant sweep, then yes.

Thanks again.

I think I am becoming a convert to old watches, searching the net trying to find information it seems that the old watches are better styled, and for me, more affordable and justifiable than the new versions.

Matt


----------



## sempervivens

PZG302 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply.
> 
> The number on the back reads 9297882. And if by hack seconds you mean the second hand has a "jerky" movement rather than a constant sweep, then yes.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> I think I am becoming a convert to old watches, searching the net trying to find information it seems that the old watches are better styled, and for me, more affordable and justifiable than the new versions.
> 
> Matt


'Hack seconds' or 'hacking' means the second hand can be stopped by pulling the crown out to the time-setting position. That would indicate a cal 120 in your watch. There were a few other calibers with central seconds at the time. To be sure which movement it is, you'll have to open the watch or ask a watchmaker to do it for you. But for now... just enjoy it. It looks like a nice steel watch in good original condition. The case number indicates production around 1957. The lovely sword hands are typical for the 1950's, the thin hour markers were modern for the time.


----------



## PZG302

Thanks for the clarification. It has a hack seconds movement, just confirmed by pulling the crown out to the time setting position and the second hand stopped.

Many thanks for your help.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Cal. 120, then.

Datei:Zenith 120 Werkansicht.jpg

Hartmut Richter


----------



## heartofjade

Hello everyone,

I'm a new member here as well, joined last month. Since then I've been following the Russian and Chinese Mechanical forums (fora?) and browsing more widely as well. I've learned a lot already in the past month! After a long absence I'm returning to my rather eclectic collection of watches I put together more than ten years ago, and I've begun to acquire a few new pieces. I really don't focus on a theme or brand or era; I've just collected watches I've found interesting for their design, movement, and/or history. I want to learn more about the watches I currently have, and maybe find some new areas to explore.

About ten years ago I got this vintage Zenith on Ebay. I've attempted to embed links to two photos of it I took yesterday (sorry for the quality, both are cameraphone shots).

As you can see, the dial is marked Zenith but as far as I can tell there is no "Swiss" at six o'clock or anywhere else on the dial. I don't know if the dial and hands are original; there is some wear between two and four. The case is marked as being 14K, and bears what looks like the maker's mark (Faber Zagreb). Below it is the number 348, and the number 7 below it. Could the first number perhaps be the month and year of production (or year and month, even?) followed by the number of the case manufactured in that particular month? The case also has wire lugs, which look like they may be hallmarked (I don't yet have a loupe or magnifying glass to check).

I have not tried to open the case, so unfortunately I can't offer a shot of the movement. It looks to me like the movement might be accessible through the crystal as there's no back to the case to unscrew or pop off or otherwise detach. I don't want to run the risk of damaging the watch (which appears to keep accurate time), so I hope to find time soon to take it to my local watchmaker and ask him to open it.

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any thoughts you have to offer!

Regards,

Grant

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4P0vRtZztkNajk1TGFJcEpKV1BjcnJfWGRXcGZ6R256U1Rv/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4P0vRtZztkNZ2VFMkY4SlZZQ2p5SzhVRmtJSTNTVnhyQW9F/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## sempervivens

heartofjade said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm a new member here as well, joined last month.


Welcome. Can't see you pics, perhaps better if you post them directly on the forum.


----------



## heartofjade

Thanks very much for the welcome. Sorry for the problem with the pics. I tried to link to Google Drive after several attempts at uploading pics straight from my computer to the forum failed. Will try direct upload again within the hour.


----------



## heartofjade

Ok, I've tried uploading directly to here again, again the uploads have failed. I didn't think I was that technologically-challenged. :think: I've read the FAQ about posting images but apparently I've missed something. I'll be back as soon as I've learned properly how to use the forum system!;-)


----------



## heartofjade

Let's try Photobucket links . . .

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78/gswhite63/shot1_zps253e3d8d.jpg

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78/gswhite63/Zenith2_zps97d8d723.jpg


----------



## sempervivens

heartofjade said:


> Let's try Photobucket links . . .


Interesting, nice watch. Maybe around 1950? We could tell more if you have a movement picture.


----------



## heartofjade

Thanks much, I will get photos of the movement when my local watchmaker opens it up. I have no experience with this kind of case, unfortunately. I'll be back!


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Looks like early fifties or even 1940s to me. Interesting that it already has a centre seconds hand. Must be a conversion from subseconds. Like Cal. 126-5 or 106-5.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Hessu

There is no springbars, so I'd say it's from early 40's.


----------



## heartofjade

Thanks Hartmut and Hessu for your replies. Curiosity got the better of me last night, I managed to remove the bezel holding the crystal, but could get no further. Tonight I will post pics of what the watch looks like after that operation. Any suggestions about how to proceed from there would be much appreciated.


----------



## sempervivens

I agree it could also date to 1940. But +- 1950 is also possible, a locally made gold case around 1949 could still have wire lugs.


----------



## heartofjade

Hi again all,

Here's the watch with the bezel removed. Am I dealing with a two-piece winding stem here? I'm a newcomer to watch photography so if there are more helpful angles you'd like me to try to capture, please let me know.

Thanks much,

G.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78/gswhite63/20140129_151008_zpscef558e4.jpg

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78/gswhite63/20140129_150856_zps0ffe8759.jpg

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78/gswhite63/20140129_150635_zps3886771e.jpg


----------



## FBuler

My first post. I've got a mint vintage 9ct gold Zenith from around 1969. I'm having trouble uploading photos, so as soon as I figured out how to, or what's wrong I'll get them up


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to the forum. Make sure that the pictures are ca. 190KB or less and you should have no problems.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Hessu

heartofjade said:


> Hi again all,
> 
> Here's the watch with the bezel removed. Am I dealing with a two-piece winding stem here?


No, as you can see the case is open where the stem goes in. You just have to pull movement out from case by lifting from the crown. The movement may be like glued to back case because of dirt and dried water.


----------



## heartofjade

Sure, I see what you mean. Thanks for your help, I appreciate it.


----------



## heartofjade

Here's the movement:

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78/gswhite63/20140130_175908_zps6f6799c3.jpg


----------



## Hessu

It's cal 12-4-50 and the movement serial no takes it to 1944.
About the Serbian hallmarks, came to my mind that here in Finland till 60's the importing company was oblicated to have gold watch cases inspected, if the wanted to sell the watch as gold watch. So the case is not necessery locally made, even it has Serbian hallmark. To conform do you have any pics from inside of the watch, or did you see if there is a signing by Zenith.


----------



## heartofjade

Thanks very much indeed for the information, I appreciate your help a lot. I did check inside the case for any signing; there was none that was visible to the naked eye. I did take two photos of the inside as I noticed what looked like a scratch on the inside rim of the case. I wondered if was a notation left after a service. I'll upload the pics in a moment. Perhaps you noticed that I'm located in Finland as well. Might I ask where you are? I'm in Turku.


----------



## heartofjade

The pics aren't great but here they are . . .

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78/gswhite63/20140130_180008_zps21d95fb1.jpg

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78/gswhite63/20140130_180009_zps502e9b57.jpg

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab78/gswhite63/20140130_180010_zps88ad9b9f.jpg


----------



## Hessu

heartofjade said:


> . Perhaps you noticed that I'm located in Finland as well. Might I ask where you are? I'm in Turku.


Yep, I did notice, I'm in Espoo (to outsders: at capital area, west side of capital Helsinki).
Looks like Sempers was right, the case is not made by Zenith. Noticed also that wirebars do have hallmarks, so they must have been added later.


----------



## heartofjade

Nice to meet another person from these parts on here.  I wondered if the lugs were hallmarked but as I said I don't have a loupe or glass yet to check. Why do you suppose the lugs would have been added later? The original lugs broke, perhaps?


----------



## Hessu

Not the lugs, but the wire between them (see the flat bit on both of 'em, goldsmith has stamped the hallmark). In these old gold watches the springbar was usually so called female springbar and in the lugs had small studs. This because of the lugs are hollow and normal springbar (male) would have fast eaten the materal. But after war springbars were hard to find stuff and many had the gold watch altered with rigid wirebars.


----------



## heartofjade

That's very interesting, thanks much for the information and explanation. I used the wrong terminology (learning all the time) but I meant the flat stamps on the wires between the lugs when I referred to what I thought might have been hallmarks. The more I learn about this watch the more a mystery it becomes, at least to me. Or how this movement came to be cased in this particular case.


----------



## Hans61

Hello.
I think it's a cal 12.4-P-5


----------



## sempervivens

(So we can see what we're talking about)


----------



## Hessu

Hans61 said:


> Hello.
> I think it's a cal 12.4-P-5


Hans is right. It is Pince (P can be seen under spiral studcarrier). Pince' = top version of caliber line.


----------



## Hans61

P (Pince) stands for the beveled edge


----------



## heartofjade

Hans and Hessu, thank you for the additional information. Is it known for certain how many of this movement were manufactured? I've found an earlier thread discussing this movement in which it was suggested that the numbers given by at least one online source may not be accurate. 

sempervivens, thank you for posting the photos here from my links. Sorry for posting just the Photobucket links; this weekend I should have the time to sit down and figure out how to reduce the size of my cameraphone pic files so they can be uploaded directly here. 

Grant


----------



## abzack

Sent from my ME173X using Tapatalk


----------



## FBuler

Hartmut Richter said:


> Welcome to the forum. Make sure that the pictures are ca. 190KB or less and you should have no problems.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


I'm still unable to upload any photos for some reason. I've reduced the file sizes. When I click upload, nothing happens. Anyway, I changed my avatar to said Zenith.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

FBuler said:


> I'm still unable to upload any photos for some reason. I've reduced the file sizes. When I click upload, nothing happens. Anyway, I changed my avatar to said Zenith.


Hmmmmm - a little odd. Do you use the appropriate icon in the list above (when writing a new message) - the one to the right of the globe with the red X (i.e. third from right)?

Hartmut Richter


----------



## FBuler

Yes. I insert the images to upload, press upload, and nothing happens.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Is the picture in .jpg format? I think that bitmaps, etc. are not accepted.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## FBuler

Yes, they're jpegs at under 120k each. The 'Insert Image' window comes up on a blank background, I click the 'from computer' option, click browse, select images. The image data appears in the bar. I click 'Upload Files' and nothing happens. The window just sits there on a blank background. No twirly thing signifying something is happening either. The number next to the balance wheel is 2541, so I guess it's that movement


----------



## D N Ravenna

Please try to send Hartmut or I a copy of the pictures and we will try to upload them. There is no reason why they should not upload, but yet they won't. We will help as we can.

Thanks,
Dan


----------



## FBuler

Same problem with PMs also.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Try via e-mail (click on the user name and select "Send e-mail").

Hartmut Richter


----------



## hayday

Calibre 2531, circa 1967

-hayday


----------



## Hartmut Richter

And here, on behalf of FBuler, are the pictures of his watch:



























Hartmut Richter


----------



## FBuler

Thank you for uploading the photos. Is there any information on this watch other than it having a 2541 movement ? It's a 9ct gold case, which I believe is a typical UK grade carat. Most of the other gold cases I have seen, have been either 14ct or 18ct.


----------



## Hessu

The case does not look like original Zenith. The movement is from 60's and the case and the crown are from turn of 40's and 50's.


----------



## FBuler

That would make sense with the case. The UK used to have heavy restrictions on the importation of gold. If you wanted a Swiss watch with a gold case, the case would probably have to have been made in Britain.


----------



## sempervivens

As often seen gold cases were locally made in the UK. 

Movement cal 2541 without serial number: dates it to the late 1960's, ca. 1969. 

(Cal 2541 was still in use in the 1970's as well, but seeing the case inscription the watch was not cased later than 1970.)


----------



## abzack

Here are my two 2562s. I haven't opened them because they are running great. When I do, I'll post pics.










Decided to try the Sporto on a bracelet. I usually wear it on a Tropic. What do you think?


----------



## Hartmut Richter

I think that it looks quite nice on the bracelet - especially since it's a Zenith bracelet.

BTW, I have deleted two copies of this post in other threads. It's OK to post the odd duplicate piccie but duplicate questions are usually a little bit of a pain since the various replies should relate to each other and their content will be influenced by whether the poster has seen the other replies.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sempervivens

abzack said:


> Here are my two 2562s. I haven't opened them because they are running great. When I do, I'll post pics.
> 
> Decided to try the Sporto on a bracelet. I usually wear it on a Tropic. What do you think?


Nice, the bracelet does not look original, but the clasp is. Enjoy


----------



## abzack

Thank you Hartmut. I understand and I'll be more careful about duplicate posts.


----------



## abzack

Thanks sempervivens. You are correct. The bracelet is a Kreisler, with the Zenith clasp.


----------



## watch77

Looking into buying a zenith watch but cant match the style to any pictures and wanted to know if it is fake.








will post pictures of the movement soon. Please help


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Difficult to be sure without a movement picture but I doubt that it is a fake. If anything, it will be a little frankenized or redialled but probably not an outright fake. And the chances are decent that it is entirely original.

Looks like it's from the 1950s.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## FBuler

I did a bit of research into the markings on the inside of the case back. DS&S is more likely than not; David Shackman & Sons. DS&S were a London jewellery Co that cased Swiss watches when the UK had strict gold importation laws. They also cased Omega & Rolex for the UK market in that time. DS&S also made maritime sextants and have patents on sextant improvements. I was a bit disappointed in the low carat of the gold in the case (9ct is the norm in the UK, but 10k is the lowest purity the the US will allow), but I'm more than happy to discover the case was (most probably) made in my home town


----------



## andsan




----------



## Sakonioli

My new acquisition - vintage Zenith 9k yellow gold with "J.H. LUNN LTD BELFAST", a jeweller, printed on dial. It comes with Cal.40. It is a really lovely watch.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

That looks very clean. I always love those watches with additional information on the dial - the jewellers where they were sold - it doesn't make them more valuable but still makes them special since the vendor is certain.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sempervivens

Sakonioli said:


> My new acquisition - vintage Zenith 9k yellow gold with "J.H. LUNN LTD BELFAST", a jeweller, printed on dial. It comes with Cal.40. It is a really lovely watch.


Beautiful. Must be one of those UK made gold cases as well.


----------



## Sakonioli

At first glance, I think its dial is too good to be true. Then, I opened a case back to see its movement. Its looks pristine as well. I also asked the opinion from my repairer about the dial. He said it is a genuine as the numeric-emboss dial is difficult to make a perfect redial. Furthermore, most redials do not have jeweller name on it.

Any opinion?



Hartmut Richter said:


> That looks very clean. I always love those watches with additional information on the dial - the jewellers where they were sold - it doesn't make them more valuable but still makes them special since the vendor is certain.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


----------



## Sakonioli

Yes, case is UK made. I see a "wolf" hallmark inside a case back.



sempervivens said:


> Beautiful. Must be one of those UK made gold cases as well.


----------



## Kossu

Hi, it's my first post here, though I've been hanging around for years.

One of my relatives passed away and this Zenith was found from his drawer. He wasn't into watches, he allways wore a cheap quartz watch, so I was very suprised when I found this. But is there something wrong with that watch? The dial has some dents, otherwise the watch is in quite good condition. The crown looks original with zenith logo. But... the dial has "Pilot" printed on and the screw down back is stamped as "Sporto". The back case is smooth from outside, no text, no logos (sorry, no photo). Serial of the movement dates somewhere around 1959. Any comments about the originality of the parts and is it worth something like it is? Or is it a hybrid made from two watches?


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Kossu said:


> Or is it a hybrid made from two watches?


Welcome to the Zenith forum. 'Fraid so - the watch is definitely made up from parts. The least that has happened is that someone took a Sporto caseback and put in on yours. It is also possible that the watch was originally a Sporto and someone took the dial off a Pilot. If you send the movement serial number (4844000 by the looks of it - which BTW means that it was made in 1959-60) plus some $$$ in, Zenith will tell you more.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Kossu

Thank's a lot Hartmut. I was waiting for a comment like that. I myself think that the dial has been changed because it has those dents that can't be seen well from the picture. It keeps time well and looks good, that makes me a happy Zenith owner.


----------



## sneer

Hartmut is right. Please look on attached link

https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/please-post-your-vintage-zenith-770983-13.html

[url]https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/zenith-pilot-flea-market-find-937100.html

[/URL]


----------



## sempervivens

Kossu said:


> Hi, it's my first post here, though I've been hanging around for years.
> 
> One of my relatives passed away and this Zenith was found from his drawer. He wasn't into watches, he allways wore a cheap quartz watch, so I was very suprised when I found this. But is there something wrong with that watch? The dial has some dents, otherwise the watch is in quite good condition. The crown looks original with zenith logo. But... the dial has "Pilot" printed on and the screw down back is stamped as "Sporto". The back case is smooth from outside, no text, no logos (sorry, no photo). Serial of the movement dates somewhere around 1959. Any comments about the originality of the parts and is it worth something like it is? Or is it a hybrid made from two watches?


I think it is an all original cal. 40 Pilot, only the back is not original to the watch. Dial isn't so bad, but it seems your camera lens has a stain ;-)


----------



## Kossu

sneer said:


> Hartmut is right. Please look on attached link
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/please-post-your-vintage-zenith-770983-13.htmlhttps://www.watchuseek.com/f27/zenith-pilot-flea-market-find-937100.html


Yeah, I've studied those pictures very closely. "Sidminds" Watch looks just like mine otherwise, but hands are different. The other watch has also different crown.


----------



## sneer




----------



## andsan




----------



## D N Ravenna

andsan said:


>


I swear, everytime I see it, it is a killer!

Thanks,

Dan


----------



## sneer

My next RR Extra 120T


----------



## sneer

my next PILOT...


----------



## sempervivens

Superb... is it a cal. 40? cal. 120?


----------



## sneer

no idea...i can not open it..


----------



## Hessu

It's cal 40. I got one, like that with worn dial. Serials are close, but case back differs.


----------



## sneer

Thanks Hessu! Did you buy anything interesting recently?


----------



## Hessu

Not Zeniths, other brands...


----------



## VinDefy

Hereby my latest Defy. 

It took me some time, but I finally found a TV-shaped Defy from the early seventies in decent condition. The watch itself I found in France, the matching GF bracelet I found around the same time in Austria. Once the bracelet is attached to the watch, the result is just great. b-)























Kind regards,
VinDefy


----------



## yledre

Hi folks,

Last week, I was lucky enough to strike a deal on this chronograph. Unfortunately, the crown is not period correct. Could one of you experts out there show me a picture of an original crown belonging to this chronograph ? Also, what diameter should it have ?

Thank you very much.

[URL="


----------



## Hartmut Richter

There is a nearly identical watch to that one in Rössler (p. 223, top) - only the 12 hour totalizer differs. It has a Cal. 146 H and is from 1965. As for the corwn, it looks a little like the one in Rössler is also a replacement -() so that won't help much. I suspect that the original would have had a Nato star or perhaps still the old "Z" in a five pointed star.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sempervivens

yledre said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Last week, I was lucky enough to strike a deal on this chronograph. Unfortunately, the crown is not period correct. Could one of you experts out there show me a picture of an original crown belonging to this chronograph ? Also, what diameter should it have ?
> 
> Thank you very much.


Hartmut is right, should have a four pointed star (often referred to as 'Nato' star). In a small circle, like this:



















As you can see, this crown also shows wear.

It is after all a handwound chronograph.

But a very beautiful one: congratulations!


----------



## sempervivens

VinDefy said:


> Hereby my latest Defy.
> 
> It took me some time, but I finally found a TV-shaped Defy from the early seventies in decent condition. The watch itself I found in France, the matching GF bracelet I found around the same time in Austria. Once the bracelet is attached to the watch, the result is just great. b-)
> 
> Kind regards,
> VinDefy


Hearty congratulations! A rare beauty, first series 'TV' Defy in excellent condition. The bracelet goes so well with this one it should not be without.:-!


----------



## yledre

Good morning,

Thanks to both of you, Hartmut and semperviens.

Probably not easy to find one. Would you have an idea about the diameter or ref. # ?


----------



## sempervivens

yledre said:


> Good morning,
> 
> Thanks to both of you, Hartmut and semperviens.
> 
> Probably not easy to find one. Would you have an idea about the diameter or ref. # ?


Diameter is about 6 mm, that should narrow down your choices.


----------



## andsan




----------



## zaytsuca

Superb piece!


----------



## VinDefy

sempervivens said:


> Hearty congratulations! A rare beauty, first series 'TV' Defy in excellent condition. The bracelet goes so well with this one it should not be without.:-!


I fully agree. Without the GF bracelet, this model clearly misses something. However, I would argue that this is the case for most of the Zenith Defy's (as well as for the El Primero's) from the early seventies. This is exactly why I buy from time to time a bracelet without having the matching watch already. The bracelets sometimes are harder to find than the matching watch so you have to grab them when they appear on the market for a decent price. 

The only thing I am often puzzling with in this case is the definition of a decent price. Especially those tropical (or ladder) GF bracelets have a tendency to cost more than the matching octagonal cased Defy's if they are in good condition... At that moment you start wondering whether this is still logical. :think:

Kind regards,
VinDefy


----------



## andsan




----------



## sempervivens

VinDefy said:


> I fully agree. Without the GF bracelet, this model clearly misses something. However, I would argue that this is the case for most of the Zenith Defy's (as well as for the El Primero's) from the early seventies. This is exactly why I buy from time to time a bracelet without having the matching watch already. The bracelets sometimes are harder to find than the matching watch so you have to grab them when they appear on the market for a decent price.
> 
> The only thing I am often puzzling with in this case is the definition of a decent price. Especially those tropical (or ladder) GF bracelets have a tendency to cost more than the matching octagonal cased Defy's if they are in good condition... At that moment you start wondering whether this is still logical. :think:
> 
> Kind regards,
> VinDefy


Of course it is logical: the ladder GF bracelets can also be used for vintage El Primero's, and so it is normal that they are priced higher.

On the other hand I agree it is not rational that say the single row rice bead GF bracelets, or the vintage Defy watches themselves are not fetching higher prices.

But we should only be happy about that! It is because the market is not always rational, that we can find good deals.


----------



## vadimvt

Does anyone know how much this one is worth? I found it on a Belgian Secondhand shop.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

An interesting TV case watch from the sixties. I am afraid we don't do valuations here but it should not be any more or less valuable than any other Zenith with automatic and date 25x2 movement (which is what yours has, e.g. 2542 PC: bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Zenith 2542PC). The best way to tell is to see what sort of $$$ these watches go for on eBay or the like (obviously, a solid gold one would fetch more but that's no comparison) - that should give you a decent idea.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## vadimvt

Hartmut Richter said:


> An interesting TV case watch from the sixties. I am afraid we don't do valuations here but it should not be any more or less valuable than any other Zenith with automatic and date 25x2 movement (which is what yours has, e.g. 2542 PC: bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Zenith 2542PC). The best way to tell is to see what sort of $$$ these watches go for on eBay or the like (obviously, a solid gold one would fetch more but that's no comparison) - that should give you a decent idea.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Oh, i'm sorry, I should have checked the forum rules first!
I'll check out Ebay! 
Maybe you can answer this question: Is it a rare watch? 
Thanks!


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Rare? In principle, no - there are a lot of Zenith watches of that era with automatic winding and a date feature. You would get bonus points for a Cal. 2552 PC (the rarest of the 25x2 series) and you might add a a tiny bit of value for the unusual case. Other than that, it's just the same as any other Zenith 25x2 PC watch in a base metal case, I'm afraid. The precise condition of the watch counts for a lot, of course.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sneer

https://imageshack.com/i/nd42yoj


----------



## GoFisk

What´s the definition for "vintage"? My watch below is now sixteen years old... old enough? By the way, who can tell me something about this watch? Is it possible that is was made for the italian market ? Any information welcome..:-!


----------



## Hessu

Vintage is 30 years or older.
Watch (or any other product) that is less than 30, but no more a current model is a retro.


----------



## Buliwy

I have 2 for you!

1. Plain Surf Day Date.




















2. Prototype Surf Diver.




















(yes I did get rid of that horrible green strap!)

Let me know what you think!


----------



## Hartmut Richter

I think: :-!!

The first one has a Ca. 34.5 (Zenith designation for an ETA Cal. 2837 - I can see the numbers under the balance). I presume that this is an ETA 2836 going at 36000 A/h since I can also see an "AF" under the balance which I would interpret as "_alta frequenza_", i.e. "high frequency".

The second watch puzzles me slightly. In view of the bezel, I would have assumed it to be a diver's watch. However, the case back designation "Surf" is simply equivalent to "splash proof", i.e. no special water protection (such watches were designated "Subsea" at Zenith). The two don't quite match up. Does it have a screw down crown? If so, I would suspect that the case back isn't original. If it is original, then in spite of its sporty looks, I doubt that it was intended as a diver's watch.

The possibility of a non-original case back is strengthened by the reference number which ends in a "360" or "380" (not quite clear from the photos). The 360 is the designation for a Cal. 2572 and the 380 is the 2572 PC; neither fits in this case. Still, a nice watch.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Buliwy

Currently I am away on Business and didn't bring this watch. I also can't remember if it has a screw down crown or not. I will let you know when I return home.
I zoomed in on the original pic and it is 380 on the back.
I do how ever think that it is the original case back, as the red discoloring is from the original plastic protector.
Like I posted in the other thread I think this is a prototype not produced.
Then again I an no expert!
I will get with you again when I get home.

Thanks for your insight!


----------



## pyiyha

Not terribly vintage, but before Nataf...
Zenith Prime.


----------



## Hessu

Surprised to see that Zenith's 36.000 is made out of 17jewel, a poorman's ETA.
Like Hartmut, I was too wondering about Surf in divers watch.


----------



## castigliano

* Hi,

Here is the Zenith wall clock I have and appreciate if someone could provide an information about that, when it was manufactured and any other available information.

Thanks

*


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Nice clock. Please leave all replies here, so that we don't split the discussion:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/old-zenith-18-days-movement-wall-clock-help-info-needed-1013416.html

Thanks!

Hartmut Richter


----------



## John MS

From the 1970's a Zenith AF/P in a brushed case with a signed screwdown crown. Movement is a 28 jewel 36,000 bph caliber 405 (Zenith Movado venture). It's on a Zenith alligator deployant strap. The case makes me think of a vintage television set.


----------



## sempervivens

John MS said:


> From the 1970's a Zenith AF/P in a brushed case with a signed screwdown crown. Movement is a 28 jewel 36,000 bph caliber 405 (Zenith Movado venture). It's on a Zenith alligator deployant strap. The case makes me think of a vintage television set.


Pretty b-) looks to be in splendid condition.


----------



## John MS

sempervivens said:


> Pretty b-) looks to be in splendid condition.


Thank you. Yes it is in nice condition. Although the picture doesn't show it, the dial is delicately brushed in the same radial way the bezel is.


----------



## laikrodukas

Incoming it is


----------



## SilkeN

A nice and about 1921 really modern poket watch. 















The movement is a 17 3/4 ''' BAS V.S.I in a whitegold filled Wadsworth case. The diameter of te watch is 4,4 cm.


----------



## andsan




----------



## everestx

With all the posts about gold watches I think I'll wear this through the week.


----------



## Hessu

People are posting wallclocks to Vintage Zenith thread by Sneer. Well I've bought something that fits to the both categorys. I bought a watch display plate (just one, from on watch agent's case. Paid a mesely 8€ + an another 8€ for post). Drilled a holes for a pianowire hook and put it up the wall. Like it, like to watch Zeniths!
Oh yes, all the watches on the plate are Zenith.


----------



## sneer

Brothers in arms.. only pilot


----------



## camper4

hi everyone, i have this zenith, which was my grandfather's. does anyone know what year it is or where I can find out? On the back, the numbers "186989" are inscribed. I believe it's 18K gold...anybody know what it is worth? I plan on keeping it anyway but just curious.

also, i'd love to buy a new crystal because mine is cracked ever so slightly between the 7 and 8 o'clock markers, right in the corner. my concern is that the seal could be compromised, although my watchmaker says it looks ok but he can't tell for sure without removing the crystal and he doesn't want to do that becuse it will likely crack. he also doesn't want to put on aftermarket crystal because he says it will lose that domed look.


----------



## sempervivens

camper4 said:


> hi everyone, i have this zenith, which was my grandfather's. does anyone know what year it is or where I can find out? On the back, the numbers "186989" are inscribed. I believe it's 18K gold...anybody know what it is worth? I plan on keeping it anyway but just curious.
> 
> also, i'd love to buy a new crystal because mine is cracked ever so slightly between the 7 and 8 o'clock markers, right in the corner. my concern is that the seal could be compromised, although my watchmaker says it looks ok but he can't tell for sure without removing the crystal and he doesn't want to do that becuse it will likely crack. he also doesn't want to put on aftermarket crystal because he says it will lose that domed look.


Made by Zenith in Besançon (France) towards the end of the 1960's.


----------



## andsan




----------



## sneer




----------



## VinDefy

Two new octagonal Defy's in a month time and both with their original GF bracelet. :-d

The one on the left has a 2562PC, the one on the right a 2552PC.

















Kind regards,
VinDefy


----------



## captainh0wdy

Back from the spa.


----------



## VinDefy

Another octagonal Defy. b-)

This time one of the last batch that was brought to the market given that it has the type number on the back, in this case 01.0901.290. The 0901 has the brown-gray shaded dial.

Interesting enough, the GF bracelet does not have a date indication stamped in it. I'm however not sure whether they simply forgot to stamp the date indication in it or whether this is normal for the last batch of the octagonal Defy's that were brought to the market. :-s Any thoughts on this?

























Kind regards,
VinDefy


----------



## sempervivens

VinDefy said:


> Another octagonal Defy. b-)
> 
> This time one of the last batch that was brought to the market given that it has the type number on the back, in this case 01.0901.290. The 0901 has the brown-gray shaded dial.
> 
> Interesting enough, the GF bracelet does not have a date indication stamped in it. I'm however not sure whether they simply forgot to stamp the date indication in it or whether this is normal for the last batch of the octagonal Defy's that were brought to the market. :-s Any thoughts on this?


I've seen a few like that (GF bracelets without date stamp) and I think you could be right (that these were the last batch made).

Which dial colours do you distinguish among the khaki dials? Brown-grey and ...? Do you think they were different originally or the result of tropicalisation?


----------



## VinDefy

sempervivens said:


> Which dial colours do you distinguish among the khaki dials? Brown-grey and ...? Do you think they were different originally or the result of tropicalisation?


Interesting question and to be quite honest, I am not sure I have an answer on this one. What I do know is that the khaki dials of the 01.0901.290 seem to be darker and contain more grey than the khaki dials of some of the earlier A3643s. Look for instance to my earlier post on this page. The dial of this A3643 is much lighter and to be quite honest I doubt that this has something to do with tropicalisation. It simply seems to contain less grey and grey in my mind is not a color that easily deteriorates. What puzzles me more is that there are dials as well that contain almost no brown&#8230;

Below I have put three so-called khaki dials next to each other. The one on the left (227E311) has almost no grey, the one on the middle (the 01.0901.290) has a mix of grey and brown and the one on the right (003E672) has almost no brown&#8230; So, it looks indeed that we have a lot of khaki variants&#8230; Probably we have to do with some replacement dials as well and those might explain the different types of khaki dials as well I would think.









Kind regards,
VinDefy


----------



## andsan




----------



## sneer

With polished glass


----------



## VinDefy

sneer said:


> With polished glass


Very nice, I think that I have to bring in a couple of my Defy's as well for some polishing but I still need to find someone here around who's able to do such a nice job.

Kind regards,
VinDefy


----------



## abzack

Just arrived this afternoon... Zenith El Primero Rainbow


----------



## Phranz

*Zenith cal 133.8 Bumper ±1955*








regards Phranz


----------



## Trevor M

My much beloved 1956 Zenith 133.8 hammer automatic sporting its new Hadley-Roma band and double-folding clasp -- which finally made it "right".


----------



## FDarcey

This is my Zenith monopusher. 

Case : 18k yellow gold, four body hinged 44 mm.
Dial: Enamel /Pulsometer/30 minute counter for chrono

I like the fact that the button is at 6, it reminds me of the Omega ref 741A also from the 1920's.

Any information on the watch would be appreciated. I have never seen one exactly like this.

About me: 
Live in Sydney, Australia.
I just collect monopushers from 1915-1930.
Collecting since 1977.

Regards

FDarcey


----------



## sempervivens

*Zenith monopusher chronograph*



FDarcey said:


> This is my Zenith monopusher.
> 
> Case : 18k yellow gold, four body hinged 44 mm.
> Dial: Enamel /Pulsometer/30 minute counter for chrono
> 
> I like the fact that the button is at 6, it reminds me of the Omega ref 741A also from the 1920's.
> 
> Any information on the watch would be appreciated. I have never seen one exactly like this.
> 
> About me:
> Live in Sydney, Australia.
> I just collect monopushers from 1915-1930.
> Collecting since 1977.
> 
> Regards
> 
> FDarcey


Interesting and beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

Is it really 44 mm or did you mean 34 ?

Does it have a number inside the caseback? That might help to date it, although information is scarce in this field.

Any photo of the movement?

You might enjoy Nicola1960's post about his Zenith monopusher with Valjoux movement: https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/my-z...pusher-chronograph-made-1920-30-a-687056.html


----------



## Second Time

*Re: Zenith monopusher chronograph*

My collection is primarily Omega but always had a liking for Zenith. Breaking myself in gently with this 2572PC and looking at a slippery slope ahead. 
Believe this was the last Zenith movement from 1975/8 but any other information or corrections appreciated.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

*Re: Zenith monopusher chronograph*

No, you are quite correct - the Cal. 2572 PC from the early 1970s is the last version of this movement. It was used in the late 1970s too but that was only using up old stock - no further specimens were being made. It has recently been revived but has not seen its way into many modern Zenith watches (unfortunately! :-(). The 25 stands for movement diameter (25mm), the 7 for the 7th movement of its type at Zenith and the 2 for the movement type (ordinary non chrono movement with central seconds hand), the P ("power") for automatic winding and the C ("calendar") for the date feature.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## luvmyhilux

https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/some-help-please-540752.html

My vintage Zenith (my late fathers) identified by the super helpful members on this forum


----------



## D N Ravenna

luvmyhilux said:


> https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/some-help-please-540752.html
> 
> My vintage Zenith (my late fathers) identified by the super helpful members on this forum


You are referring a 2011 post. What are you lucking for?

Thanks,

Dan


----------



## FDarcey

Thanks for your comments.

It is an oversized case 44mm not 34mm.
The lug shape, case size and the olive pusher at six are very similar to the Omega attached.

I am familiar with the smaller 1920's Zeniths which are covered in the article you refer to which are between 33mm and 40mm . I have owned a few of them but never seen one like this. Thats why Im curious.
Also Dial, Case and movmeent are mint+++ close to NOS. It also has a dust cover with medals and 1900.

Case number is 3,850,424 if this helps.


----------



## ezinternet

We've seen this "special" model DeLuca from 1990 before from some forum members, although not this particular watch. 
It's a new old stock, reference 89.0315.400 with blue dial and blue bezel in stainless and 14K gold.
530 of them made and all taken by Cairelli of Rome --- until this one found its way from Italy to Illinois 

-Ez


----------



## sempervivens

That's a beautiful De Luca! And to me it looks like a forerunner of the Rainbow series. 
You should post that information in the De Luca overview  where you'll also find this illustration from 1992:


----------



## sempervivens

FDarcey said:


> Thanks for your comments.
> 
> It is an oversized case 44mm not 34mm.


That is wonderful, and since size matters, it sounds like a valuable addition for your collection


----------



## FDarcey

There are amazing Zenith watches in both case sizes. I just wish I knew more about this one.

Cheers

FD


----------



## sempervivens

FDarcey said:


> There are amazing Zenith watches in both case sizes. I just wish I knew more about this one.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> FD


You could try to contact the Zenith historian, sometimes people manage to get a response, see for instance https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/information-vintage-zenith-calibre-156-a-891390-2.html#post9198770

With that case number maybe they can find some more information for you. If you get a reply, let us know!


----------



## FDarcey

Thanks mate. I will order an extract from the archives, get in touch with the historian and see what happens.
I have been told on good advice from a watchmaker who deals with alot of vintage Zenith timepieces that the movement in this watch is a Zenith 19 CHR from 1912 which is interesting because the case number is leading to a watch possibly made in 1930?? I am not worried about the mismatch because I have seen stranger things that turned out to be a manufacturers decision.

Identifying the Zenith movement is a good start - I will keep you posted.


----------



## sempervivens

FDarcey said:


> Thanks mate. I will order an extract from the archives, get in touch with the historian and see what happens.
> I have been told on good advice from a watchmaker who deals with alot of vintage Zenith timepieces that the movement in this watch is a Zenith 19 CHR from 1912 which is interesting because the case number is leading to a watch possibly made in 1930?? I am not worried about the mismatch because I have seen stranger things that turned out to be a manufacturers decision.
> 
> Identifying the Zenith movement is a good start - I will keep you posted.


Excellent :-!


----------



## sempervivens

Zenith Defy ref 3642 (1969)


----------



## avkkkk

Zenith Defy


----------



## VinDefy

Not a Defy... ;-) But I could not resist. :-d This is a nice Respirator with a light blue dial. I'm not sure whether the dial is original given it misses the little x below "Respirator". With a silver dial, the reference should be A7632. The serial number is 460D394, dating the watch to 1970. The bracelet is a NSA bracelet, the movement a 2552PC.

Any additional information or comments on this "light blue dial" version are of course welcome.

















Kind regards,
VinDefy


----------



## sempervivens

Yes, obviously a repainted dial. Looking bland, without the lacquered finish of an original dial. 
Besides the missing 'X' some more differences are: 'T swiss made - instead of '- swiss made -'; missing the painted frame around the date window; lacking serifs in 'Zenith'; different size/positioning of 'Zenith automatic'; 
Case looks re-polished (glossy instead of matte). Did you buy this from Asia?

Surely it was a good buy anyway for the original bracelet, the movement, the original crystal, hands etc.

It is an early serial number, I would date this to 1969.

The movement cal 2552 PC is also typical for 1969.


----------



## VinDefy

sempervivens said:


> Yes, obviously a repainted dial. Looking bland, without the lacquered finish of an original dial.
> Besides the missing 'X' some more differences are: 'T swiss made - instead of '- swiss made -'; missing the painted frame around the date window; lacking serifs in 'Zenith'; different size/positioning of 'Zenith automatic';


Indeed, and what strikes me as well are the indexes. The indexes at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock are much longer than the other indexes while on the original dial it is just the other way around. Given this, I am not sure whether the dial has been repainted. It might be that it is a completely new dial that has been made like this. Given that the indexes are quite different, the fixation points of the indexes must be on different places as well I would think, which makes it already more cumbersome to reuse an original dial (but however certainly not impossible either :think.



sempervivens said:


> Case looks re-polished (glossy instead of matte). Did you buy this from Asia?


Nope, I did not purchase it from an Asian country, it is coming from a European country. It might indeed be slightly polished although the front looks more glossy than the side of the case as shown below.











sempervivens said:


> Surely it was a good buy anyway for the original bracelet, the movement, the original crystal, hands etc.


It was certainly a good deal given I paid less for the entire watch than the price which I often see for the NSA bracelet alone...  Nevertheless, I would never buy a watch (or watch parts) which I don't like and even although I spotted that the dial was most likely not original, I liked this one.



sempervivens said:


> It is an early serial number, I would date this to 1969.
> 
> The movement cal 2552 PC is also typical for 1969.


I am not going to counter argue on this one, because I had some doubts on this my self. My guess was however that it was an early 1970 specimen, but I would certainly believe it to be a 1969 specimen as well.

Kind regards,
VinDefy


----------



## sempervivens

I should correct myself: these Respirator X dials are usually signed at the bottom '- swiss made - T' and not just '- swiss made -'. 
Yours with 'T swiss made -' is definitely wrong IMHO.
I also have a couple of Respirators with repainted dials and I agree they are still nice to wear, but of course not as nice as the original, and I buy them mainly for the parts.

The Respirator X is very sleek on the wrist and there is a lovely variety of dials, including different length of hour markers as well:























The first example above is a bit rare, as it seems to be non automatic. Dial looks original though.
The second and the third example also look original: you can see the vertical grain of the original dial finish and other details.


----------



## VinDefy

Hmm, interesting. The lenght of the hour markers of the first watch shown above seems to be consistent with the hour markers on the dial on my respirator. Can it be that this one has the oldest serial number of the three watches which are shown above? In any case, the fact that the indexes on the dial in the first respirator shown above are similar in lenght as on mine, makes it more likely that mine has been repainted. In any case, repainted or not, I really like the light blue color on this one and it is certainly well done, except for the fact that they have forgotten the "x" and misplaced the "T". 

Kind regards,
VinDefy


----------



## sempervivens

avkkkk said:


> Zenith Defy
> 
> View attachment 2033274
> 
> 
> View attachment 2033282
> 
> 
> View attachment 2033266


Thanks for posting. I think the dial has been switched, as this dial normally belongs to the octagonal case (as do the hands). But it is an original Defy dial and looks great in this case as well.

Could you still decipher the serial number on the back?


----------



## abzack




----------



## D N Ravenna

Very nice! Can you provide some history behind it? How long have you had it? Where did you find it?

;-)

Dan


----------



## abzack

D N Ravenna said:


> Very nice! Can you provide some history behind it? How long have you had it? Where did you find it?
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Dan


It just arrived from Australia. Its powered by a 2572PC.


----------



## Hessu

Zenith 250 S with 2532P. No serial at the case.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Well, at least there's a serial number on the movement (dating it to ca. 1965). Is there a logo on the inside of the case? If not, it's probably a generic replacement. Which would be a pity. If the logo is on the inside of the case, the serial number (should be ###X### format) may have been polished away.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sempervivens

*Zenith 250 S, 2600, 2300, 2000*

Very nice vintage Zenith.

It's amazing that ca. 1964 Zenith made all these different dials with numbers: 250 S, 2600, 2300, 2000 ... and now nobody knows why those numbers were used or what they mean.


----------



## Hessu

*Re: Zenith 250 S, 2600, 2300, 2000*

Yes, these numbers are a puzzle. I was kinda waiting to hear from Sempers what it does mean! Shame about the fact that "letter-number" codes were made to the case back with a normal goldsmith's gengraving machine, they are so easily often polished off. If the watch is round 1964-65 so it is probs ###A### -series.
Shame, I just looked from Ranfft that 2532P was made 1961-62 only 12.000 pieces. How can this be from 1964-65? Had an another look at the movement and realized that it says 2532*PC*. Took the dial off. This movement is with calender plate, without calender parts. The factory did make up till 2542 different plate to non-calender and calender version. So conclusion is that somebody may have swapped the movement or factory has cleared shelves out from old movements when making this one.

Edit The wierdest thing is, the plate should be 2522PC, it does have the 2 extra stones that it had.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

*Re: Zenith 250 S, 2600, 2300, 2000*

Thanks for the update. On balance, I must say that it doesn't look too good for the watch being entirely original.....:-(

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sempervivens

*Re: Zenith 230 S, 250 S, 2600, 2300, 2000*



Hessu said:


> Yes, these numbers are a puzzle. I was kinda waiting to hear from Sempers what it does mean! Shame about the fact that "letter-number" codes were made to the case back with a normal goldsmith's gengraving machine, they are so easily often polished off. If the watch is round 1964-65 so it is probs ###A### -series.
> Shame, I just looked from Ranfft that 2532P was made 1961-62 only 12.000 pieces. How can this be from 1964-65? Had an another look at the movement and realized that it says 2532*PC*. Took the dial off. This movement is with calender plate, without calender parts. The factory did make up till 2542 different plate to non-calender and calender version. So conclusion is that somebody may have swapped the movement or factory has cleared shelves out from old movements when making this one.
> 
> Edit The wierdest thing is, the plate should be 2522PC, it does have the 2 extra stones that it had.


Well, one thing is likely: the "model codes" on the dial refer to the movement.

The '2000' (with the famous cal 135 ca. 1962) may have started the idea of having a number on the dial.

The others followed about two years later and are all cal 2532, and its variants:

2300 = cal 2532 ; 
230 S = cal 2532; 
250 S = cal 2532 P ; 
2600 = cal 2532 PC;

The difference between 2300 and 230 S is not clear.

Still you can see the theme developing here.

The 230 S and 250 S may be the rarer models; they sound like luxury versions.

From your notes as a watchmaker, I understand this was practically custom built by Zenith. Probably in the Martel workshops b-)

Anyway these "letter-number code" dials are all rare, made only for a short period of time.

That was in the same period when the new case numbers were introduced.

The case number was most likely between 1xx and 3xx A xxx : among the first watches with the new case XXX A XXX serial numbers, introduced ca. 1964 ;

However since the movement number of this watch (250 S) is relatively high (looks like 60xxxxxx) the case number was probably also high: *3xxAxx* would be my best guess.

These numbers as you say were engraved lightly, on steel as on gold cases, and it's always a shame when numbers are polished away.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

*Re: Zenith 230 S, 250 S, 2600, 2300, 2000*

Great info! Thanks, sempervivens.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## andsan




----------



## Hessu

A rare Zenith 2522C with 3 o'clock calender window.

























engraving: Mor o Far (=swedish from Mom and dad)


----------



## andsan




----------



## OttoH

Zenith cal 2532
Wearing it almost daily as a "smart casual office watch"

best regards,
Otto


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to the Zenith forum. That's a smashing looking watch - very clean for its age. Personally, I can generally live with manual winding but I do like a date feature on my watches. However, others might say it destroys the symmetry of the dial..... In the end, everyone has to decide for themselves.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## ThomG

andsan said:


>


This is a beautiful watch. I hope to find a Captian of this vintage at some point. Is that 38mm?


----------



## Clockwiser

Hi zenith-addicts!
I'm working to obtain my first Zenith. Can you give me your oppinion on the authenticity of this one?



























I have doubts on several issues:

The text: TH seem to be very close one to another
The movement - quite a thick and "rude" inscription, no serial number on the movement
The case - it's a snap on, and not a screw one.

Otherwise, if it's original, it;s exactly what I'm looking for: gold, thin, simple, no date, hand-wind...


----------



## sempervivens

It looks all original. The serial number and caliber number are both engraved under the balance. From 1969, so it is also possible that it does not have a serial number for the movement, as around this time serial numbers for the movement were dropped.


----------



## andsan




----------



## busmatt

Just got this from my watchmaker, swapped an Omega Geneve And a couple of parts watches for it.










Matt

Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD


----------



## hogwldfltr

Waiting on this incoming; would welcome any analysis of it from what photos I've posted.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

The photos are not entirely up to scratch but I suspect that the watch has issues. The dial claims that it is a "Pilot" model, at the same time, it has a small seconds hand. The "Pilot" line had Cal. 12-4 movements with indirect central seconds adaptation initially, later they used Cal. 120 with direct central seconds. Others may correct me here but I would say that the dial is at least a redial with a little added that shouldn't be there.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Hessu

Zenith did manufacture Pilots with 40 and 40-T from late 50's and especially early 60's 1962. And not all of those Pilots did have that ZENITH PILOT text at the case back. The dial do look a bit wierd, but can't say from this pic if it is a redial or not. If you look closely against light you may be able to see if it dos have a laquer layer on the top, redials do not have it.


----------



## hogwldfltr

Hessu said:


> Zenith did manufacture Pilots with 40 and 40-T from late 50's and especially early 60's 1962. And not all of those Pilots did have that ZENITH PILOT text at the case back. The dial do look a bit wierd, but can't say from this pic if it is a redial or not. If you look closely against light you may be able to see if it dos have a laquer layer on the top, redials do not have it.


The 40-T tracks to '61 as far as I can tell. I've seen a number of Pilots with the 40 (-T) movements. The dial appears to have age degraded lume and age degraded hands. That would seem unlikely on a redial. I'll show more when I have it in hand. It can be returned. Thanks for the thoughts on the watch.

-Lee


----------



## hogwldfltr

Hartmut Richter said:


> The photos are not entirely up to scratch but I suspect that the watch has issues. The dial claims that it is a "Pilot" model, at the same time, it has a small seconds hand. The "Pilot" line had Cal. 12-4 movements with indirect central seconds adaptation initially, later they used Cal. 120 with direct central seconds. Others may correct me here but I would say that the dial is at least a redial with a little added that shouldn't be there.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Zenith Pilot


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Thanks for the link. So, must be correct after all.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## hogwldfltr

Hartmut Richter said:


> Thanks for the link. So, must be correct after all.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


We'll see; hard to tell with your post whether sincere or not.


----------



## GUTuna

This is both vintage and my first Zenith period. I am a new collector, so if anyone could offer a good servicer of Zenith vintage pieces in or around Washington, DC, it would also be appreciated. Want to get this serviced and working its best!


----------



## sempervivens

hogwldfltr said:


> Waiting on this incoming; would welcome any analysis of it from what photos I've posted.












The oblique dial shot makes it difficult to see, but as far as I can see it looks original.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Oh, it's sincere enough. You see, I do not pretend to be an exhaustive authority on Zenith watches. I'm good but some here are better, especially in certain sub-areas. Several people consider me - erroneously! - to be a demi-god on the subject and I think that impression is based on the fact that a) I do have a fair amount of knowledge on the subject but also b) as moderator of this forum, the knowledge is particularly prominent. And if I cast doubt on a watch and later someone unearths a thread in which I saw a similar one and didn't blink an eye, this obviously doesn't look too hot for me! The bottom line is that, whether the watch is entirely genuine or not in the end, my opinion on this pointis evidently not the one to go by.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## hogwldfltr

Hartmut Richter said:


> Oh, it's sincere enough. You see, I do not pretend to be an exhaustive authority on Zenith watches. I'm good but some here are better, especially in certain sub-areas. Several people consider me - erroneously! - to be a demi-god on the subject and I think that impression is based on the fact that a) I do have a fair amount of knowledge on the subject but also b) as moderator of this forum, the knowledge is particularly prominent. And if I cast doubt on a watch and later someone unearths a thread in which I saw a similar one and didn't blink an eye, this obviously doesn't look too hot for me! The bottom line is that, whether the watch is entirely genuine or not in the end, my opinion on this pointis evidently not the one to go by.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Frankly after reviewing as many posts on the Pilots as I can yours is the opinion I value the most. That is why I asked for clarity. I've received the watch and it seems to be almost in too good condition; I'll post pictures later. Oh and wasn't thinking demi-god status; maybe a bit more removed, more like a semi-demi-god. One final question; I've seen recommendations regarding contacting Zenith for info on watches; are they willing to help with questions regarding authenticity?

Thanks!

Lee Fisk


----------



## ThomG

I've heard Zenith archives charges a fee for information on specific Zenith vintage watches. LVMH is helpful, but only on watches made since they acquired Zenith.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Correct: they do but it costs a fair amount. More specifically, this is equivalent to an "excerpt from the archives" and costs 120 Swiss Francs with an extra 30 Swiss Francs if information is to be confirmed on paper and sent by post.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## ThomG

Thanks for that information Hartmut. You're right, that's a bit pricey.


----------



## hogwldfltr

Hartmut Richter said:


> Correct: they do but it costs a fair amount. More specifically, this is equivalent to an "excerpt from the archives" and costs 120 Swiss Francs with an extra 30 Swiss Francs if information is to be confirmed on paper and sent by post.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Interesting price schedule; hardly worth it on a $200 watch.


----------



## sneer




----------



## sneer




----------



## abzack




----------



## Seikomad

my all new Zenith 18kt gold


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Nice! Cal. 133.8 from 1959.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Hessu

A Zenith cal 10,5" movement serial 3122657. Chromium case diameter 27mm, betzel has lost it's shine. About year 1938.
I got this baby as a sidekick when I bought Omega Seamaster 600 with cal 600 (not 601) and a Tissot Seastar 781-1.

















It's small but I think it has been men's watch back in the day. Seller told that his mother wore this at 60's. I will restore it for the collection.


----------



## OttoH




----------



## Hartmut Richter

A Cal. 2511 (or perhaps 2521 or 2531) from the early 1960s. Nice. Thanks for showing that.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## OttoH

Cal. 40-T from 1962.


----------



## surreynorthern

On behalf of friend, what is it, and is it worth anything?


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to the Watchuseek Zenith forum. That's a nice, if a little standard, Zenith pocket watch made in their subsidiary in Besancon, France (hence the dial inscription). The serial number (74863 if my eyesight serves me right) should help date it but I don't have a list of Besancon serial numbers. I would say late 1920s or early 1930s though. I am sorry but we give no valuations here since it's too difficult to be precise. eBay is your best bet here: just see what these things go for there and you arrive at a pretty good estimate.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## surreynorthern

Hartmut Richter said:


> Welcome to the Watchuseek Zenith forum. That's a nice, if a little standard, Zenith pocket watch made in their subsidiary in Besancon, France (hence the dial inscription). The serial number (74863 if my eyesight serves me right) should help date it but I don't have a list of Besancon serial numbers. I would say late 1920s or early 1930s though. I am sorry but we give no valuations here since it's too difficult to be precise. eBay is your best bet here: just see what these things go for there and you arrive at a pretty good estimate.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Cheers for that.

I sent the above images to the Zenith Archive department. According to their archives the serial numbers of the case and movement are indicative of a manufacture date of 1955. Zenith email below. The owner of the above watch believes that its pre-1900. I'd already said it was likely 30s at earliest, since my research that Besancon opened around 1926 or so. I was also told that someone had offered 70,000 euros for it, A poke round ebay suggest likely 300 euros.

-------
Dear Sir,

Exceptionally, the service is free, as information will incomplete, given that our historian is temporarily absent.

Normally you have to pay for this service, in: Zenith Extraits d'Archives - Certificat d'origine

N° movement: 74863
N° case: 585669
Caliber: 88-8
Date of manufacture: 31.12.1955

Hoping that this information is enough for you, 

Best regards,


----------



## Hartmut Richter

I think that someone confused the Besancon serial numbers with Le Locle serial numbers. A serial number of only 75000 would really be (distinctly!) pre 1900 - if the watch was made at Le Locle. Since Besancon only opened up in the 1920s, this is of course not possible.

I am afraid someone botched up a little on the information, though. There is no way that this can be a Cal. 88-8. That is an 8 3/4''' calibre, i.e. only ca. 19.5mm in diameter. (Made in 420000 pieces between 1938 and 1968 - all Cal. 88 derivatives, that is.) Since your watch is about 50mm and the movement fairly well fills the watch, I would think that it is rather more likely to be a 19'' calibre, most likely the 19''' P.T. (successor of the 19''' N.V.I). The precise calibre designation seems to be under the balance wheel. What does it read?

Hartmut Richter


----------



## zenith_bg

Hello from Bulgaria!
I will present you my small Zenith vintage collection


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Some nice watches there although the Sporto (as I have pointed out elsewhere already) is a redial. The AF/P has a Movado Cal. 405 inside, made available to Zenith during their cooperation. Congratulations.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Betadingo

Early 60's Pilot. Caliber 120


----------



## kimmop

Posted this already to another forum, but here's a cal 2552PC Respirator X. AFAIK, only case has been polished, otherwise original.


----------



## jva59

kimmop said:


> Posted this already to another forum, but here's a cal 2552PC Respirator X. AFAIK, only case has been polished, otherwise original.


Absolutely gorgeous! What's the story behind the name?


----------



## kimmop

jva59 said:


> Absolutely gorgeous! What's the story behind the name?


As Far As I Know. 

Shouldn't use too much abbreviations...


----------



## pedromoliveira

Here goes my old 37mm case Sporto which was from my grandfather.























It looks better in person. I'm not very good at taking watches pictures!
Unfortunatelly the dial had to be restored has it was in very bad shape when my father gave it to me 10 years ago. Still I think the work done on the dial was not bad. You be the judge.


----------



## Sakonioli

My new acquisition cal. 2531. Steel case with rose gold indices on dial is so beautiful.


----------



## Time Is Escaping




----------



## rts9364

So many great watches in this thread! I have been looking for a gold 156 chronograph for a year or so. There are quite a few around, it seems, but never at the right time due to other buying/selling going on.  I finally came across this one at a good time and it is now resting peacefully next to its much younger cousin (see below). The shadows in these pics are a little much, but the dial seems pretty clean while still presumably original. Everything seems as it should to my ignorant eye and it is keeping good time so far. It's a great size next to my 38mm EP; I can't wait to get it on a proper strap and wear it. I would welcome any thoughts.


----------



## sempervivens

It looks all original. Nice patina. Beautiful rose gold case. I like the dauphin hands.


----------



## Bandi78

Hello!

At first: so sorry for my bad english...

A few days ago, i found this Zenith watch on the attic of my grandpa's house. I cleaned it, and i bought a new leather whristband, because the original is missed.













Unfortunatly, i can't identify exactly this watch, i have a lot of questions: this is original or just a replica? What is the year of the making? etc. etc. I think this is not original, because, for example: there is no sign on the crown, or no "swiss made" sign on the dial. The only one word the inside is just: ZENITH nothing else.
The only one think what i know, that the cal. nr. is 2522
I found these numbers inside:


























And there is a number inside of the case backplate:









Please, somebody can help me? Any opinion? If somebody can answer to me, i will very thenkful!


----------



## nickma

Zenith US Signals Corp 1917.


----------



## sempervivens

@ Bandi78: Welcome and congratulations with your Zenith. It looks in good condition. Nice classic style with applied numerals.

This was produced By Zenith in Besançon, France. It should also have a number on the back in the order of 1.000.000. 

It dates to ca. 1965 (give or take a couple of years).

The markings etched inside the back indicate that it was serviced by a watchmaker in 1978.

with kind regards


----------



## Bandi78

@sempervivens: Thank you fot the quick answer, im very appreciated! Yes, there is a number in the back: 928324


----------



## sempervivens

Ok thank you. Sounds like the case number is older than the movement number, probably slightly before 1965 then.


----------



## Tony N

From the 50's


----------



## Verdi

So happy with my vintage Zenith..


----------



## mooieklokjes

Very nice!


----------



## tiger8888

I am a new Zenith owner....1975 PC 2572 01-1561-380 cobalt blue sunray dial. Would anybody add any thoughts on its rarity it anything else? Thank you. Mark.


----------



## EnderW

tiger8888 said:


> I am a new Zenith owner....1975 PC 2572 01-1561-380 cobalt blue sunray dial. Would anybody add any thoughts on its rarity it anything else? Thank you. Mark.


No thoughts on rarity as I'm not familiar w the model...But it looks awesome. Great condition, cool case and awesome dial.


----------



## yourturn.id

Guys glad to know this thread...

Vintage Zenith Fabrication Française... Enjoy

Pls let me know the production year if you know


----------



## abzack




----------



## Hartmut Richter

Nice! Cal. 405 from Movado, I presume?

bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Zenith 405 (Movado 405)

Hartmut Richter


----------



## behappy04




----------



## enrico6309

Zenith deLuca


----------



## georges zaslavsky

today is Subsea day


----------



## oso2276

Just got this. Need to find a suitable bracelet for it









Enviado desde mi Moto G (5) Plus mediante Tapatalk


----------



## AmraTheLIon

I have this watch from around 6 months and it became my favorite watch.For this period the watch was not on my wrist for around 5 days and when I take a shower.The hidden crown is a nice feature,love it.With unkown service history it is fantastic timekeeper +7-+15 seconds per day,depending of the position I sleep.












The size is pergect for my wrist-38 mm.


----------



## Sansoni7

Here it is:


----------



## exgiuseppe

Hi all,
I am new to the forum, My Zenith is an automatic 18kt gold.


----------



## exgiuseppe

As you can see the movement is a 2572 PC (produced between 1975 and 1978), I am wondering which model is my watch; on the back there is a number 12345. 
Following the instructions on this forum, I can see that in these years the code number should be:
XX Metal - > 20 Gold
XXXX -> ????
XXX Movement -> 380
Can anyone help me?
Thanks


----------



## sempervivens

Hi Giuseppe, welcome to the forum.

Could you share a picture of the back with the number? It seems an unusual number. 

Also inside the case the Zenith signature is missing. Maybe it was a locally (in Italy) produced case.

For a gold model, the first part of the model number would be 30.


----------



## exgiuseppe

sempervivens said:


> Hi Giuseppe, welcome to the forum.
> 
> Could you share a picture of the back with the number? It seems an unusual number.
> 
> Also inside the case the Zenith signature is missing. Maybe it was a locally (in Italy) produced case.
> 
> For a gold model, the first part of the model number would be 30.


Hi Sempervivens, thank you for your welcome.
Here it is:


----------



## sempervivens

Like you said, 12345. It is not a Zenith case, nor does it look like it was made in Switzerland, maybe it was made in Italy (for Zenith). 

Going by the style of your watch, it does look similar to other Zeniths made in 1977-82.


----------



## exgiuseppe

sempervivens said:


> Like you said, 12345. It is not a Zenith case, nor does it look like it was made in Switzerland, maybe it was made in Italy (for Zenith).
> 
> Going by the style of your watch, it does look similar to other Zeniths made in 1977-82.


Many thanks for your help, so it is not an original Zenith. I am a bit disappointed


----------



## sempervivens

I dare not say that it's not an original Zenith. There are other instances where Zenith had the cases outsourced. Here is an example of an unusual case for a gold El Primero:









The dial of your watch looks original, the case fits and the case style and dial style is very similar to other Zeniths in this period. Here is an example from the 1977 catalog:


----------



## exgiuseppe

sempervivens said:


> I dare not say that it's not an original Zenith. There are other instances where Zenith had the cases outsourced.


Thanks. 
Anyway, it is an heirloom, I am looking for a watch repairer in order to renew it.


----------



## sempervivens

I've added a catalog example of similar watches. 

As you can see it doesn't show any automatic watches: automatic Zeniths in gold always were a rare luxury (as compared to handwound).

Any good old watchmaker should be able to service it for you. 

Cal. 2572 PC only has an unusual quickset mechanism for the date through a small external part on the stem. 

Congratulations and enjoy your Zenith!


----------



## probep

Vintage Zenith Pilot, late 1950s, cal.120.
The crown isn't original.


----------



## probep

Vintage Zenith Tank, calibre 8 3/4 F, late 1930s.


----------



## sempervivens

Very nice. I agree the movement was probably produced ca. 1938. But the case dates to a few years later ca. 1942.


----------



## Sansoni7

Very nice and in a great condition. 
Congrats.


----------



## probep

Vintage Zenith, ca. 1959/1960, Calibre 120, signed crown, stainless steel case:


----------



## BVItalia

Not mine.. a good friend lent it to me for the day. So jealous!


----------



## BVItalia

This is mine!


----------



## probep

My vintage Zenith Pilot and a postage envelope stamped on the South Pole (?) and devoted to Zenith Pilot watches cal.5011:


----------



## Rifish

My dear vintage Zenith from late 60's or early 70's, can't remember exact year. Movement is 2542. Don't know the model/reference number.

Here with black leather strap:








And here with light brown ColaReb Ostrich-strap:








Although I found a similar one on the internet and there it says that model reference number is SP 1209 4:


----------



## river rat

A cool one from 1931 as vintage as you can get.


----------



## vujen

This is my vintage beauty... 143-6 Yugoslavian Army.
It's my favorite watch ever.


----------



## MarkMarkH

river rat said:


> A cool one from 1931 as vintage as you can get.
> http://i.imgur.com/pqDODlG.jpg[/im]
> [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/X3uNACO.jpg[/IM]
> [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/v6svJvI.jpg[/IM][/QUOTE]
> 
> That's gorgeous! Congrats.
> How did you go about getting an extract from the archives?


----------



## MarkMarkH

Removed


----------



## tacotom

vujen said:


> View attachment 12430059
> 
> 
> This is my vintage beauty... 143-6 Yugoslavian Army.
> It's my favorite watch ever.


Show us more!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vujen

tacotom said:


> Show us more!!


Of course! But we have to wait more or less a week, it's not with me at the moment


----------



## vujen

tacotom said:


> Show us more!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As promised!


----------



## happ

I found this one in my late father in law drawer. Judging for the G F bracelet stamp, it was made in first quarter 1969. I presume it is one of the Yugoslav army model, since his brother was high ranked navy officer, even military attache in one period of time. It didn't work, so have it repaired. Now it is fully operational and very accurate. I am wearing it with great pleasure.There are some photos. Sorry for the quality, I made it with my cell phone.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to Watchuseek! What a lovely watch! In fantastic condition, known to have an original dial, works like a dream and an heirloom to boot! There are a few here willing to kill for something like that! Congratulations.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Sansoni7

From 1942 with a 12-4-P mechanism... bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Zenith 12-4-P


----------



## happ

Hartmut Richter said:


> Welcome to Watchuseek! What a lovely watch! In fantastic condition, known to have an original dial, works like a dream and an heirloom to boot! There are a few here willing to kill for something like that! Congratulations.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thank you for warm welcome. Before I got this watch I was completely ignorant in horology. I didn't know difference between watch and chronograph. I thought Zenith is a Russian company. It opened completely new world for me. I think this chronograph will be the first item in small collection. The next one will be an El Primero, I hope.


----------



## vujen

happ said:


> Thank you for warm welcome. Before I got this watch I was completely ignorant in horology. I didn't know difference between watch and chronograph. I thought Zenith is a Russian company. It opened completely new world for me. I think this chronograph will be the first item in small collection. The next one will be an El Primero, I hope.


Wonderful watch, congratulations! But.. are you sure this came from Yugo army? Never heard anything about that.


----------



## happ

Thank you. Well I am not completely sure, but I have red in In Omega forums about that. It is different caliber, and an earlier period, but having in mind such a watch was far beyond reach of ordinary people in Yugoslavia in that time, and knowing about his brother highly ranked navy officer, military attache, I presume the watch come from this side. My late father in law have just married at at time, so I suppose this was a wedding present. And I heard from an old local watchmaker about Zenith watches for Yugoslav highly ranked officer. Allegedly they got it as a present for promotion, or have access to buy it for very reasonable price.


----------



## djlotto




----------



## Hartmut Richter

Ah - the "lost reference"! Very nice too.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## irontex

What have i bought? incoming Zenith. Sellers pic.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Looks like a late 1940s Zenith, probably with Cal. 106 or 126 (what size is it?!) and one of the first with a star on the dial. If you're lucky, the case will even be steel - I can certainly see no chrome flaking off. Congratulations!

Hartmut Richter


----------



## irontex

The seller told me it was 32 mm, rather small then, and there were several scratches on the back case, not good, maybe it have a D H number on the back, i hope it will arrive at the end of the week, more pics then. I'm a little bit worried it might be a re-dial but the lume looks aged, have'nt found so many similar dials on the net.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

If it has a DH number, it should probably be a redial. In WWII, Zenith didn't yet use the star logo. However, just because it has lume, I wouldn't really consider it a military watch anyway.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Femur77

Zenith A277. In need of a lot of tlc.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sempervivens

Great find


----------



## phat7

These are the kind of finds I look forward to Most.


----------



## djlotto

Real beauty


----------



## irontex

Hartmut Richter said:


> Looks like a late 1940s Zenith, probably with Cal. 106 or 126 (what size is it?!) and one of the first with a star on the dial. If you're lucky, the case will even be steel - I can certainly see no chrome flaking off. Congratulations!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Now i have opened it, cal.106, unfortunately the balance spring is not feeling well, but the movement looks clean, no star on the crown, all stainless though, but i'm happy anyway, 90 $ together with 2 Seikos, one 7548 and Seiko 5.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Definitely a Cal. 106 and one from 1945. This makes it very early for a star on the dial (and at that time, the crown didn't have a star so yours may well be original). I wonder what sempervivens will say about this one.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sempervivens

It is about this time that one can see the first Zenith Pilot dials with star. This is nice but I suspect it is a redial. Any number on the back?


----------



## irontex

sempervivens said:


> It is about this time that one can see the first Zenith Pilot dials with star. This is nice but I suspect it is a redial. Any number on the back?


Hi!
It was my first thought too, a re-dial, but the lume looks rather aged, if it's a re-dial it's pretty well done, not some Mumbai dial, unfortunately the back case looks like Wolverine tried to opened it, here's a couple more pics:


----------



## sempervivens

The lume looks good, even too good (as does the whole dial) for a 70 year-old.

The case number is correct for 1945 and puts it even before the oldest Zenith Pilot I've seen.

Considering all that lume for the numbers, it is odd that the star is not lumed.

Compare with this Zenith Pilot:








(https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/pilot-flown-228528.html)


----------



## irontex

sempervivens said:


> The lume looks good, even too good (as does the whole dial) for a 70 year-old.
> 
> The case number is correct for 1945 and puts it even before the oldest Zenith Pilot I've seen.
> 
> Considering all that lume for the numbers, it is odd that the star is not lumed.
> 
> Compare with this Zenith Pilot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/pilot-flown-228528.html)


Okay, so your verdict is: it's a fake then, but what should it have looked like before the re-dial, is there any specific faulty matters like the fonts, minute indexes, colors and so on, i'm just interested, there are also a dust cover for the movement.


----------



## sempervivens

I wouldn't call it a fake I guess it's an older redial and fairly close to the original which would have been a two tone dial perhaps in somewhat different colours. Faulty matters besides the star and the all too perfect condition: the font seems a tad too thick. The second hand has lost its tip and is too short.


----------



## QWatchQ

WWII


----------



## LiquidPZA

This thread certainly does not disappoint!


----------



## irontex

sempervivens said:


> I wouldn't call it a fake I guess it's an older redial and fairly close to the original which would have been a two tone dial perhaps in somewhat different colours. Faulty matters besides the star and the all too perfect condition: the font seems a tad too thick. The second hand has lost its tip and is too short.


Thanks for your answer, you says the sec-hand is broken but the sub dial is recessed so why should the second hand be longer than the recessed area? and i found an other similar Zenith on the Bay (surprisingly from Sweden) and it's even older then mine, with a star, so what do you think of this one:

Zenith, rare vintage caliber 106 P-6, automatic. | eBay


----------



## sempervivens

I would say, here is one more ca. 1945:








Vintage ZENITH movements: Cal 106 P-6

The one above is only a tiny pic, so difficult to tell if it is original.

And all three it seems were destined for the Swedish market.

The one you found coincidentally also has a seconds hand that is too short (it should normally reach the calibrated area).









Here the radium numerals are rather sloppy, even covering the seconds dial.

I conclude it is a redial.

For your watch the numerals look much better, although they do leave some empty space within the numbers:









But it's mainly the font which doesn't convince me, e.g. if you compare with this example also from ca. 1942:








(VINTAGE Zenith cal 106 P-6 Orologio Da Polso Stile Militare | eBay)

The font is much more refined. The dial also shows proper signs of ageing, it doesn't shine like new. And the seconds hand has the proper length, indicating it has not been tampered with.

Still one could argue that here there are three examples of early dials for cal 106 perhaps specially made for the Swedish market with a star on the dial.

But on the other hand for this period there are many redials around. I think they are all three redials.

After all, mine is only an opinion of course. I hope it may help.


----------



## irontex

sempervivens said:


> I would say, here is one more ca. 1945:
> 
> View attachment 12529393
> 
> Vintage ZENITH movements: Cal 106 P-6
> 
> The one above is only a tiny pic, so difficult to tell if it is original.
> 
> And all three it seems were destined for the Swedish market.
> 
> The one you found coincidentally also has a seconds hand that is too short (it should normally reach the calibrated area).
> 
> View attachment 12529385
> 
> 
> Here the radium numerals are rather sloppy, even covering the seconds dial.
> 
> I conclude it is a redial.
> 
> For your watch the numerals look much better, although they do leave some empty space within the numbers:
> 
> View attachment 12529387
> 
> 
> But it's mainly the font which doesn't convince me, e.g. if you compare with this example also from ca. 1942:
> 
> View attachment 12529391
> 
> (VINTAGE Zenith cal 106 P-6 Orologio Da Polso Stile Militare | eBay)
> 
> The font is much more refined. The dial also shows proper signs of ageing, it doesn't shine like new. And the seconds hand has the proper length, indicating it has not been tampered with.
> 
> Still one could argue that here there are three examples of early dials for cal 106 perhaps specially made for the Swedish market with a star on the dial.
> 
> But on the other hand for this period there are many redials around. I think they are all three redials.
> 
> After all, mine is only an opinion of course. I hope it may help.


Just a correction, it's a 106 P-6, and once again thanks for the answers, but despite its errors it's a rather nice piece of watch.


----------



## probep

My Zenith DH watches that were made for the German army during WW2:


----------



## vujen

Two weeks without an update. New life for this topic!


----------



## nick10

A nice Zenith from 1956 with great patina:








It's movement is cal 40 I think:


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Looks like a real lemon! Well, the dial, that is, not the watch. Yes, it's a Cal. 40 (from 1956).

Hartmut Richter


----------



## EssexX

My current vintage Z lineup


----------



## Hartmut Richter

And what a nice line up it is! I'd have - and wear - any of those in a flash!

Hartmut Richter


----------



## nick10

I just saw your comment, yes but it's very nice at least in person!


----------



## EssexX

Hartmut Richter said:


> And what a nice line up it is! I'd have - and wear - any of those in a flash!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks Hartmut! Each of these little mechanical wonders always put a smile on my face


----------



## EssexX

Shining on Sunday morning


----------



## probep

Recently arived - Vintage Zenith wristwatch, circa 1958, 18K Gold case, Case diameter 37 mm!, Zenith calibre 40.


----------



## sempervivens

Wonderful, congratulations. I would estimate 1957 therefore exactly 60 years old now.


----------



## cincinnatipaul

Wearing this as it is my day off and plexi does not stand up to my work.


----------



## bpjacobs

Sweet Sporto (126 inside) to replace my great-aunt's one, stolen off my wrist in Casablanca many years ago.


----------



## Gusten

Here is My Zenith,serialnumber 5395357 which means around 1962.Inside 19 jewels and on back the Numbers 9709720 and 274A 900.
It is goldplated.


----------



## sempervivens

That is very rare, two numbers on the back, for this period, do you have a picture of that?


----------



## Gusten

Here is two pictures.


----------



## Gusten

Here is two pictures.


----------



## sempervivens

I see, one number between the lugs, and one on the back, thank you for showing that. A transitional piece from the period 1962-1964. Inside I'd expect a cal 2522 C.


----------



## tony edmunds

Hi
WE must have the same taste in watches I've just bought an almost identical Zenith.
May I ask how did you remove the caseback?


----------



## vujen




----------



## franco60

Just in from Europe. Captain Chronometre. Came on original NSA bracelet wit signed clasp (although a few links short, which I'll round up). Keeping perfect time. Looks to be a very nice example.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sempervivens

Congratulations, looks like a fine sample. I like it with this old type of date ring.


----------



## SilkeN

THis watch don't have such a nice perfect face but as round about 90 years old Lady she is really a fine sample in my eyes (17 Jewels/ movement number: 2808800 something like a little NVSI with Roost regulation, case number: 293348 with squirll  ). Keeps perfect the time and hid under the fir-tree









Regards Silke


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Lovely specimen and a truly nice Christmas present! Solid gold case?

Hartmut Richter


----------



## SilkeN

Solid..more a material-saving lightweight construction but stabil and 14 k  so it gets the squirll. The dial looks in real live much better than on my foto.

Regards Silke


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Ah, that's what you meant by squirrel: solid gold case hallmark! Lovely! - enjoy it for many years to come.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## watchcollector67

Two beautiful pieces, you should be very proud of them


----------



## MrCairo

Hello everyone,

got this one incoming:









My first (vintage) Zenith, Cal. 2532 C. I've previously been collecting similar watches from Longines, but I am slowly falling into the Zenith rabbit hole. Looking forward to contributing here!


----------



## MrCairo

This just in today. *Zenith Sporto* 28800, Cal. 2562. 36mm and wears huge. What a beauty.


----------



## caesarmascetti

wearing this one today....DeLuca aka Poor Man's Daytona


----------



## probep

Zenith DH watches for the German Army during the WW2.
From left to right:
1. Wrist watch in stainless steel case;
2. Wrist watch in chrome-plated case;
3. Pocket watch.


----------



## Terje Pedersen




----------



## sempervivens

probep said:


> Zenith DH watches for the German Army during the WW2.
> 
> View attachment 12920949
> 
> 
> View attachment 12920951


That's an impressive line-up, I've never seen that on this forum (nor anywhere else).


----------



## design-of-the-times

My newest acquisition. Thanks to sempervivens for the date of mfg, 1963.


----------



## WatchOutChicago

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vujen

Zenith Pilot Special, original from '30s.
What a charme!


----------



## sempervivens

Spectacular


----------



## Femur77

Just got this back from a light restoration. Zenith A 277 from February 1968. Currently running -5.5 seconds over 24 hours.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Beautiful, clean movement. I am sure that with a slight shift of the lever, it could be got to ±0 seconds/day.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Rifish

My latest Zenith purchase. I guess if you want to be a true Zenith collector, you have to have a respirator. Although there is no "respirator" text on the dial so maybe this is not a true respirator. I guess this is from year 1965 because on the back of the watch is a text about 100 year old Zenith (in Finnish). This has movement cal. 2542 PC and it has has a very nice touch. The crown has Zenith logo but is not an orginal one.


----------



## vujen

sempervivens said:


> Spectacular


It totally is.
Another shot, with cloudy sky. 
1938 guys, what can we say?


----------



## Hartmut Richter

That looks nice but I do wonder whether it's all orginal. Generally, silver (coloured) cases and golden (coloured) hands/dial indices are a more modern thing. Are there serial numbers on case and movement (as there should be from a Zenith of that age)? They would help to confirm that the two go together.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sempervivens

Femur77 said:


> Just got this back from a light restoration. Zenith A 277 from February 1968. Currently running -5.5 seconds over 24 hours.


Awesome b-)


----------



## supergrilldds

Great looking watch. Wear it in good health


----------



## river rat

A pair of vintage Zenith the US Army Signal Corps watch from 1919 and a Zenith Special from 1931


----------



## abzack




----------



## Femur77

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bqtime

This lovely bumper...


----------



## sempervivens

I'll not say goodbye so soon to this 1968/69 200 m diver cal 2542 PC...


----------



## digikam




----------



## FBPB




----------



## espiga

A survivor, rescued in 2002/2003 will post more details later. Service performed by LVMH in New Jersey.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Looks quite nice, if somewhat overpolished, plus the original crown is gone and the dial a little damaged. However, from your text, I suspect that it once looked rather more abysmal and that the current state is rather better than what it used to be. I look forward to the whole story.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## espiga

Hartmut Richter said:


> Looks quite nice, if somewhat overpolished, plus the original crown is gone and the dial a little damaged. However, from your text, I suspect that it once looked rather more abysmal and that the current state is rather better than what it used to be. I look forward to the whole story.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thank you Hartmut and Sempervivens, I admire and appreciate all the work you guys do here on this forum!
I will try to be brief and explain the best I can:

In 2002 I received a Zenith book from an AD and saw the picture of the El Primero as presented for the first time, as shown in the book.
We know the El Primero history in minuscule details now. All I had in my hands in 2002 was the book!
At that point I was amazed to say the least!
Then the search began...

Found this watch on Ebay in 2003.
Contacted the same AD with the picture, then he contacted Zenith and they said they could fix, all I had to do was buy it.

At that time it was just a matter of getting it back in working order, I wanted it functional like the one on the Zenith book.
My wife when saw the watch said: "Did you see what you bought, it is all broken!" 
Took the watch to the AD and after some time, maybe 5 months, I receive the call it was ready for pick up.

It was funny, the day I went to get the El Primero back, on the spot, the AD looking at the watch asked me if I wanted to sell it!
Sure, now I know how much an unpolished case and all the grime is worth today, but back then was not this crazy!!!
I still have all the parts they replaced!

LVMH today is the same Heuer in Springfiled NJ, with Mr. Hans... only much bigger!
I always had great service performed by him on my Heuers in the 80's and 90's!

I still send my watches to them and they ALWAYS treat me with respect and do their best.
LVMH did a GREAT job on this watch, bringing it back to working order with no special instructions, other than just fix it!
For them an old/worn part has to be replaced to make the watch reliable, they have a different point of view from the 
collector.

Sorry for the long post, it was going to be longer...
Best regards.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Not at all - I enjoyed reading that! I would say that you did the right thing. There's no point in shelving a wreck just to have it in your collection. Watches are meant to be worn.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## sempervivens

That's what all this is about, bringing old beauties back to life :-!


----------



## MDT IT

Hi , after WW2 , memory of my grandfather


----------



## Verdi

Crown jewels


----------



## Rifish

My latest purchase is this Zenith Diver, I guess ref. 3637. Movement is 2452 pc. Crown is not orginal, but otherwise on quite good condition. For example the case should not be polished. Still needs to be serviced.


----------



## [email protected]

I've never met my grandfather but I was left with a timeless 1950 beautiful watch.

























Two questions:

1 - I've never seen this model, anyone have any information or know something about it?
2 - I'm looking for a strap to it, options in my mind are the Fluco Horween Shell Cordovan paded or non paded (opinions??), or the Rios 1931 Chicago (Shell Cordovan too). What do you thing of the bands and there is another band in that kind of range (40-70$) worth?


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Don't know about the straps but it looks like a nice but no-model-name Zenith with a Cal. 126. Most Zeniths at the time didn't belong to a model range (it's more of a modern thing).

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Rifish

My latest purchase is this Defy from 1969 with cal. 2552PC. I gues this is model A3642. This is second Defy for me but not the last one. For years I didn't like this "sand dial" and thes indexes but now when I got to see it for the first time "on live", I really like them.

_BTW. Sorry about a bit blurry picture._


----------



## sempervivens

Rifish said:


> My latest purchase is this Defy from 1969 with cal. 2552PC. I gues this is model A3642. This is second Defy for me but not the last one. For years I didn't like this "sand dial" and thes indexes but now when I got to see it for the first time "on live", I really like them.
> 
> _BTW. Sorry about a bit blurry picture._


Congratulations, that is a classic and the first of the Zenith Defy's.


----------



## Rifish

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations, that is a classic and the first of the Zenith Defy's.


Thanks. Unfortunately the first number from the serial number has worn out so don't know the exactly number. But was it so that the first Defy watches (1968) had that different kind of "sand" dial?


----------



## sempervivens

Yes, the oldest case numbers are found on the Defy's with the green-grey or 'khaki' dial with the steel hour markers. If you send me the case number, maybe I can tell what the first number should have been. Does it have the 'patent pending' notice inside the caseback?


----------



## probep

Vintage Zenith 18K Gold watch, circa 1954, cal. 120


----------



## sempervivens

Congratulations! Beautiful. Ca. 1954/1955.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

...but not a Cal. 120. It's a Cal. 126 (I can't see any capping on the escapement gear otherwise it would have been a Cal. 40).

Hartmut Richter


----------



## probep

Hartmut Richter said:


> ...but not a Cal. 120. It's a Cal. 126 (I can't see any capping on the escapement gear otherwise it would have been a Cal. 40).
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Sorry, typo. Yes, it is Cal.126.
Thank you *Hartmut*.


----------



## sempervivens

1956


----------



## JackFliegeruhr104

Cal 12 4 -P,/1942/ Model unkown/ On a new Nato


----------



## KO_81

Here we have my 1960s Zenith which I aquired last month, just back from a service and new crown.

I am just besotted with it; especially on a custom made, regal red genuine alligator leather strap. The pictures do not do the watch nor the sumptuous strap any justice.

The 2562 PC movement is running smoothly @ 28800 vph. So so happy with it. :-! :-!


----------



## sempervivens

Congratulations, it is an excellent movement. It seems (in the first pictures) there may be an issue with the date change: it should snap over around midnight. If it is a slow change-over, this should be looked at.


----------



## design-of-the-times

A small piece of history


----------



## KO_81

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations, it is an excellent movement. It seems (in the first pictures) there may be an issue with the date change: it should snap over around midnight. If it is a slow change-over, this should be looked at.


Thanks for the information and advice, have contacted the watchmaker in question to enquire as it has only just been serviced.

Some more pics in much better light.............


----------



## Rifish

I thought that it would be very hard to find red dialed Zenith Defy but luckily this came on sale. I didn't need to think a second what to do🙂 This dial is so beautiful! 

Ok, the case is not in the best shape and it has been repolished but otherwise ok condition.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Oh my word - that really is a beautiful watch! Congratulations!

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Rifish

Hartmut Richter said:


> Oh my word - that really is a beautiful watch! Congratulations!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks Hartmut.

Yes, the dial and the bracelet is beautiful but unfortunately that case is repolished quite badly. Don't know if it is possible to fix it anymore.


----------



## KO_81

I have got a new Crocodile strap on its way to me from the far east, a more conservative brown than the vivid red currently fitted to my vintage Zenith:



Can't wait to put it on this beauty:


----------



## Rifish

Zenith Defy red dial (A3691) with Gay Freres bracelet. I just love that dial.


----------



## pattymac




----------



## Hartmut Richter

Vintage? Then mine must be too (it's from 1996, the model was introduced in 1994).....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Longjean

Vintage , veteran or just old, who decides?


----------



## amg786

Triple date moonphase (410z) From 2000








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rifish

My latest purchase: Turquoise dial Defy. One Defy (A3642) had to leave (had two of those), but it was worth it. 

Ok, the case is quite beaten up, no orginal bracelet etc. but I just love that turquoise dial. It is hard to get a good picture about it. This is my favourite Defy.

Still missing white dial Defy but those are not hard to get😊


----------



## Ric Capucho

Ca. 1970 Zenith El Primero A386 (probably a Mark 2).

A few issues with this one... the red second hand is too long (I have an authentic A386 replacement at hand), the keyless works needs a damn good looking at by my demon watchmender, and the case back is a SP 1301 off an A3817 or A3818 (it should be an SP 1205). And the dial's a bit grubby.

But... but, it's a nice looking watch that I can freely wear without needing an armed guard to accompany me. And I got it at a great price.

Happiness, innit.

Ric


----------



## wiwatm

My Pilot deserves new seals. So I did it!









Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## wiwatm

wiwatm said:


> My Pilot deserves new seals. So I did it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Took me some courage to do so 









Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## probep

Just got: vintage Zenith wrist watch, 30x30 mm, cal. 11''' N.V.S.I.
I think the movement was made in 1929, but the case - in the mid-1930s. It was the time of the Great Depression.


----------



## sempervivens

Very sweet cushion case. Is that a movement number 28...8 or 29... 9?


----------



## probep

sempervivens said:


> Very sweet cushion case. Is that a movement number 28...8 or 29... 9?


2950819


----------



## sempervivens

I agree, movement may have been produced earlier (ca. 1931?), but the case number dates to ca. 1936/37.


----------



## sempervivens

View attachment 13924353


Zenith Defy 01 1010 290 (1973)

View attachment 13924355


----------



## probep

Recent arrival.

Georges Favre-Jacot original wrist watch for the Russian market; cal. 15''' №36; 18.07.1917 (± 2 days) - just before Russian Communist revolution; case diameter 39 mm; enamelled dial.
The same model was described in Manfred Rösler's book, p. 162.


----------



## sempervivens

Awesome! 39 mm, that is pretty modern. Beautiful dial. Congratulations.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Great thread!
Here's my 40T Chronometre from ca 1962.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

probep said:


> Recent arrival.
> 
> Georges Favre-Jacot original wrist watch for the Russian market; cal. 15''' №36; 18.07.1917 (± 2 days) - just before Russian Communist revolution; case diameter 39 mm; enamelled dial.
> The same model was described in Manfred Rösler's book, p. 162.
> 
> View attachment 15015603
> 
> 
> View attachment 15015605
> 
> 
> View attachment 15015607


Wonderful! It doesn't get much better than that; a historically important piece, indeed!


----------



## sempervivens

mattiascollin said:


> Great thread!
> Here's my 40T Chronometre from ca 1962.
> View attachment 15015979
> View attachment 15015981
> View attachment 15015987
> View attachment 15015989
> View attachment 15015993


Very sweet. In 18 K, not that common either. Beautiful in all details.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Very sweet. In 18 K, not that common either. Beautiful in all details.


Thanks! Yes, it was an opportunity that I could not miss. It is so much fun to get in contact with you and some of the other Zenith-afficinados here; I have learned a lot already! Previously I have mainly been active in a Swedish watch forum. Hope to get some info from Zenith about my Zenith 2000, but they are apparently closed right now. I will post some of my other vintage Zeniths here soon!


----------



## moyrules

Here's my new addition to the collection



















Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## MrCairo

used to have this lovely 2400:









Regretted selling it, and now I found its identical twin for sale. Will post photos when the actual thing is here!

edit: cal. 2532C


----------



## probep

MrCairo said:


> used to have this lovely 2400 (cal. 2352C)


Maybe cal. 2532C?


----------



## MrCairo

probep said:


> Maybe cal. 2532C?


oops, that's correct! minced numbers there


----------



## Zenithconnoisseur

A watch I have not shared on this forum yet: my simple but enjoyable Zenith Sporto 2562c.









Sent from my BV9500Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## moyrules

Staying at home, while reading something, and Zenith De Luca Mark I on my wrist










Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## Buddy2

a beauty ;0


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Captain Chronometre (turtle)


----------



## Zenithconnoisseur

Today's wrist shot









Sent from my BV9500Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## Longjean

Another old thing but a good time keeper after recent service done locally.


----------



## drumcairn

Zenith Sporto


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Chronometer triple. Calibers 133.8, 40T and 2542PC.


----------



## drumcairn

Zenith Sporto 28800 - new crystal after lockdown!!


----------



## maguirejp

This belonged to my father. I am guessing late 1960's - 1970's?
Does anyone know more about this? 
Probably purchased in Germany 
Cheers from Calgary, Canada


----------



## sempervivens

Congratulations on your Zenith ref 01.3490.150 from 1974/1975.

If you could tell us what movement it has, this would be useful for our sticky on Zenith movement codes.


----------



## drumcairn

Zenith Sporto 28800


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Captain Chronometre with caliber 71. From ca 1959.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

What a superb watch!! Rare movement, solid gold, in excellent state, looks 100% original - my dream come true. Only that it's not sitting in my watch box or on my wrist...... :-(

Wear it in good health for the rest of your hopefully long life!

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Longjean

Exactly what I was thinking, superb,enjoy.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Hartmut Richter said:


> What a superb watch!! Rare movement, solid gold, in excellent state, looks 100% original - my dream come true. Only that it's not sitting in my watch box or on my wrist...... :-(
> 
> Wear it in good health for the rest of your hopefully long life!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Yes, it was an opportunity I could not pass on! Thanks for your kind words!


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

mattiascollin said:


> Captain Chronometre with caliber 71. From ca 1959.


Here's the back and movement on request:


----------



## sempervivens

Congratulations from me as well. The dial is solid gold too I presume? And with the Zenith hourglass on the back. b-)


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations from me as well. The dial is solid gold too I presume? And with the Zenith hourglass on the back. b-)


Many thanks! Yes, pure gold the whole thing! I posted the back and movement above on request;-)


----------



## sempervivens

Always good to see the innards and back as well. Based on the case and movement number I would estimate it was produced in 1958.


----------



## Zenithconnoisseur

What a beauty ! 

Sent from my BV9500Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## 5277

love the fresh colours and the unpolished case on it


----------



## joaot

My Zenith 135 from 1959/1960
View attachment P1002170.jpg


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

joaot said:


> My Zenith 135 from 1959/1960
> View attachment 15166357


Truly wonderful! Does it house a version 2 movement? Rhodium-plated?


----------



## joaot

watchhunterandcollector said:


> Truly wonderful! Does it house a version 2 movement? Rhodium-plated?


Unfortunately I am not knowledgeable enough to answer your question, but I will post a picture of the movement and you will tell me. 

View attachment Zenith_135_movement.jpg


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

joaot said:


> Unfortunately I am not knowledgeable enough to answer your question, but I will post a picture of the movement and you will tell me.
> 
> View attachment 15168051


Thanks for posting the movement! Looks like a wonderful example of a rhodium plated version 2. Me an the other 135 fanatics would be very happy for a crosspost here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/zeni...35-overview-859709.html#/topics/859709?page=9
Then @Hartmut Richter can add it to the database that was created by @sempervivens 
Cheers,
Mattias


----------



## _Mechanical_Art_

Love this one the most.









Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Malilis

Latest acquisition, a vintage from the 40'ties .. to join the others, each from a different decade !


----------



## tomspellman

My Grandad's Zenith. We have no information about it so any advice would be great.

Keeps time perfectly but needs new glass and a bit of a polish!

View attachment 15195749


View attachment 15195751


View attachment 15195753


View attachment 15195757


View attachment 15195761


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to Watchuseek! However, your pictures don't show up. Could you upload them directly (using the button in the toolbar abover the text box when writing a new message - the one next to the one with the red X)? It would help rather a lot. Thanks.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Zenith 2000 back from service. I'm very happy!


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Malilis said:


> Latest acquisition, a vintage from the 40'ties .. to join the others, each from a different decade !


Very nice collection!


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## tomspellman

Thank you Hartmut! I hope you can now see the below!

It keeps perfect time and has a DS&S hallmark on the clasp.


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## watchhunterandcollector

tomspellman said:


> Thank you Hartmut! I hope you can now see the below!
> 
> It keeps perfect time and has a DS&S hallmark on the clasp.
> 
> View attachment 15201507
> 
> 
> View attachment 15201509
> 
> 
> View attachment 15201511
> 
> 
> View attachment 15201515
> 
> 
> View attachment 15201517
> 
> 
> View attachment 15201519
> 
> 
> View attachment 15201521


Wonderful heirloom! I'm not an expert on this model, but it looks like solid gold and the original bracelet is fantastic! Based on the appearance and Zenith logo, I would guess late 60s or early 70s. Would be great to see the movement and also see the information on the inside of the back lid! Probably a 25x2PC series movement. Again, based on the looks, I would guess 2552PC or 2562PC. Thanks for sharing!


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## Hartmut Richter

It certainly looks like a nice watch. The square logo means that it is post 1972 and therefore has a Cal. 2562 PC or 2572 PC. I am not sure whether it's solid gold. The case back sadly looks like a replacement: if the watch is solid gold, it should have a solid gold case back too and even if it is only plated (and such watches have a stainless steel case back), I would expect the case back to have at least a reference number of the structure ##.####.### where the last three digits should be 290 (if Cal. 2562 PC) or 380 (if 2572 PC). The bottom line is that either the case back has been polished heavily or it is a replacement. It is possible that the entire case is a replacement but, since the bracelet looks like it's fused to the case and the buckle has a Zenith logo, it would either be a replacement from another Zenith model or the buckle has been swapped or the main case is original (the most likely option IMO).

It would be rather interesting to see the inside of the case back in case it does have a Zenith logo.

Hartmut Richter


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## watchhunterandcollector

Early 133.8! From ca 1952. Was hoping to get my first 133, but it was yet another 133.8;-) Still very happy!


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## sempervivens

Congratulations, very nice. There's nothing quite like the '50's.


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## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations, very nice. There's nothing quite like the '50's.


Thanks! It was covered with dirt and the plexi was scratched when I got it. A few hours of cleaning and polishing did the trick. I think the case has kept tight, since the movement looks great!


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## 5277

Steel Zenith in real 38mm from 1939


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## watchhunterandcollector

Friday gold! Caliber 71 Captain Chronometre from 1958.


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## Hartmut Richter

When I first saw that one in Rössler, I thought that that is one of the most beautiful and desirable Zeniths of all time! Congratulations on a very fine watch!

Hartmut Richter


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## watchhunterandcollector

Hartmut Richter said:


> When I first saw that one in Rössler, I thought that that is one of the most beautiful and desirable Zeniths of all time! Congratulations on a very fine watch!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thank you very much Hartmut! I'm privileged to be able safe keep it for the next generation. Cheers!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Friday gold again! Italian 18k Zenith El Primero from ca 1990 (06.0210.400). Domed sapphire glass, solid silver dial, and 18k hands and indices. I'm preparing some material for a feature about these quite rare golden Italian El Primeros. Not even Rössler seems to have much information about these, but I have some;-) Substantial wrist presence!


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## andsan




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## watchhunterandcollector

andsan said:


> View attachment 15362473
> View attachment 15362474
> View attachment 15362475


Wonderful trio!


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## Rifish

Bicolour Zenith Defy from early 70's.


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## dpn

Zenith Defy A3642 from 1972. Just received this watch, and getting ready to send it out for service.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Rifish said:


> Bicolour Zenith Defy from early 70's.


Wonderful! I have never seen this variation before; is the bezel in solid gold?


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## watchhunterandcollector

133.8 bumper from ca 1952.


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## Rifish

watchhunterandcollector said:


> Wonderful! I have never seen this variation before; is the bezel in solid gold?


Thanks! The bezel is gilded/gold plated.


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## Longjean

A nice walk in the morning before coffee sets this one up since the crown is recessed therefore difficult to wind.
Chronometre signed movement is a bonus, photo before it was serviced.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Unusual El Primero from approx 1985. Heavy gold case, silver guilloche dial, gold indices and hands, and a domed sapphire glass. One of the Italian El Primeros with reference 06.0270.400 with a 40.0 movement that was produced for just one year 1984-85. If you want to read more about the Italian El Primeros:








El Primero Bolognese (EPB) - The enigmatic Italian gold...


My 06.0270.400, 06.0210.400, 06.0250.400, and 06.0062.400 INTRODUCTION As a Zenith and El Primero addict I have over the years been scouting offline and online sources for interesting finds. Some of the more intriguing ones are what I call the Italian El Primeros or the 06s. Some of you might...




www.watchuseek.com


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## watchhunterandcollector

Longjean said:


> A nice walk in the morning before coffee sets this one up since the crown is recessed therefore difficult to wind.
> Chronometre signed movement is a bonus, photo before it was serviced.
> View attachment 15381900
> View attachment 15381901


Fantastic example of a 133.8 Chronometre! Looks like a very nice Spillmann case with hidden crown. I love it!


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## Tomdavoren

So glad to find this forum and thread! This is my vintage Zenith. I know pretty little about it, it came originally with 'surf' designation, it is on a jubilee with an oyster style case, and under a macro the dial is actually a dark blue. I'm excited to try and lean more! Cheers


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## watchhunterandcollector

Excellent start of your Zenith collection! There’s no going back once you have started;-)


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## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to Watchuseek! Nice watch and, if it has "Surf", it is probably from 1972 or thereafter. "Surf" was the Zenith and Movado designation for water resistant those days - truly waterproof watches were labelled "Sub Sea". Are there any numbers on the case back? That would tell us more.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Barn find! Gold capped with 2542PC from ca 1968.


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## Hartmut Richter

Very nice and clean! I bet it runs like a dream.

Hartmut Richter


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## watchhunterandcollector

Thanks! Yes, it runs plus a few seconds per day! One thing that puzzles me is that the back is labeled "fond acier inoxydable" even though the case for sure looks like a classic gold capped steel. Do you think the lid is original?


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## Hartmut Richter

It should be. "_Acier Inoxydable_" means stainless steel and "_Fond Acier Inoxydable_" means stainless steel *back*! So you're OK.

Hartmut Richter


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## watchhunterandcollector

Friday gold!


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## watchhunterandcollector

New arrival! Quite unusual 2532PC Chronometre in a nice steel case. From approx 1964.


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## montelatici

I posted my new arrival elsewhere but I just ran a a test and it looks like a winner.


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## watchhunterandcollector

montelatici said:


> I posted my new arrival elsewhere but I just ran a a test and it looks like a winner.
> View attachment 15406457
> View attachment 15406460


Beautiful and accurate, as you can expect from a Zenith!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Blue Thursday with Zenith 2000 with caliber 135. Now with a correct Zenith buckle!


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## dpn

watchhunterandcollector said:


> Blue Thursday with Zenith 2000 with caliber 135. Now with a correct Zenith buckle!


That is a really gorgeous and understated piece. Do you have any pictures of its movement?


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## watchhunterandcollector

cuckoowasp said:


> That is a really gorgeous and understated piece. Do you have any pictures of its movement?


Thanks a lot! Yes, I surely do! The balance is 14mm;-)


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## watchhunterandcollector

Friday gold. 133.8 bumper in a Spillmann case with hidden crown from 1957. When you want to keep a low profile;-)


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## hi_bri

I usually hang around with the affordable Seiko crowd but I do have this...










Cheers,

-Brian


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## watchhunterandcollector

hi_bri said:


> I usually hang around with the affordable Seiko crowd but I do have this...
> 
> View attachment 15410248
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -Brian


Great! You should hang here more often🤛


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## AmraTheLIon

The hidden crown is a nice feature.


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## watchhunterandcollector

AmraTheLIon said:


> The hidden crown is a nice feature.
> View attachment 15412535
> View attachment 15412535
> View attachment 15412536
> View attachment 15412536


That one is absolutely stunning! I love those Spillmann cases with hidden crowns! Looks like it is housing a calibre 71 too. Thanks for sharing this rare piece🙏🏻


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## AmraTheLIon

Yes,cal.71.
Here is my other Zenith with hidden crown.Ref.01.1010.290 from 1972 year.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Great with the 71! Quite different this Spaceman, but definitely cool 🚀!


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## ARB1

Good evening,

I'm been watching this forum for a little while and fascinated by the depth of knowledge and impressed by the help offered and wonder can I avail of same?

An old friend of my fathers, both deceased, has left me amongst other items a dress bracelet gold Zenith watch. I would be interested in learning more about it, although I'm afraid it is much too small for my wrists.

Following earlier posts I have tried to photograph movement etc to assist and any insight would be helpful.


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## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to Watchuseek! That looks like a nice Zenith with Cal. 2531 from ca 1965. Any picture of the outer caseback - or details of what's written on it?

Hartmut Richter


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## 5277

Fresh colours


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## sempervivens

Congratulations on your Zenith. Sounds like a sweet family heirloom. Like Hartmut said it dates to ca. 1965 or 1964/65 (production date of the movement). The case (is it 9 karat gold?) was made by 'ZWC' which stands for Zenith watch company and indicates local production in the UK. Therefore it probably doesn't have a case number on the back.



ARB1 said:


> Good evening,
> 
> I'm been watching this forum for a little while and fascinated by the depth of knowledge and impressed by the help offered and wonder can I avail of same?
> 
> An old friend of my fathers, both deceased, has left me amongst other items a dress bracelet gold Zenith watch. I would be interested in learning more about it, although I'm afraid it is much too small for my wrists.
> 
> Following earlier posts I have tried to photograph movement etc to assist and any insight would be helpful.


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## ARB1

Hartmut Richter said:


> Welcome to Watchuseek! That looks like a nice Zenith with Cal. 2531 from ca 1965. Any picture of the outer caseback - or details of what's written on it?
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Hello Hartmut,

Thand you for the welcome and forgive my delay in responding. Thank you for the information which is most helpful.

The watch strap forms part of case , but I don't see any writing on the outside of the case.
The inside of the case has a 9ct hall mark, 1945 date stamp and ZWCc stamp. The hall mark and ZWCc stamps are also found on the clasp.

I hope that this helps.

Kind regards


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## design-of-the-times

12-4 with cut out markers


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## Hartmut Richter

ARB1 said:


> Hello Hartmut,
> 
> Thand you for the welcome and forgive my delay in responding. Thank you for the information which is most helpful.
> 
> The watch strap forms part of case , but I don't see any writing on the outside of the case.
> The inside of the case has a 9ct hall mark, 1945 date stamp and ZWCc stamp. The hall mark and ZWCc stamps are also found on the clasp.
> 
> I hope that this helps.
> 
> Kind regards


Thanks for the reply. I see that sempervivens has already given you the necessary extra information. Enjoy your watch!

Hartmut Richter


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## watchhunterandcollector

design-of-the-times said:


> 12-4 with cut out markers
> 
> View attachment 15428054


Wonderful model! Is the case in solid gold and is it from the early 40s?


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## design-of-the-times

watchhunterandcollector said:


> Wonderful model! Is the case in solid gold and is it from the early 40s?


Yes 18K from 1936


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## watchhunterandcollector

design-of-the-times said:


> Yes 18K from 1936


🙏🏻


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## Age_of_Surfaces

Some people might consider anything older than 20 years of age to be vintage. If that's so, then here's the 1997 El Primero ChronoMaster 'São Gabriel' that I've just acquired. A 1990s watch with a 1960s movement cased in a 1940s look.

These are the merchant's photos of the piece as I'm still waiting for it to arrive. Hope that's okay.

btw - I'm really enjoying the much older watches on this thread.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Excellent choice!


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## watchhunterandcollector

06.0210.400 ahead of time;-)


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## Age_of_Surfaces

watchhunterandcollector said:


> 06.0210.400 ahead of time;-)
> View attachment 15452907


That is simply beautiful. Thanks for sharing.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Time only Zenith 2000 with calibre 135. And a Swiss 🐶! From approximately 1967. The watch that is😎


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## Skamantpt

Was just gifted my grandfather's 1969 Zenith Defy. Thanks to everyone who contributed info on early defys in other parts of the forum. Using that, I say 1969 based on the case number (xxxx-68), bracelet number (1/69) and movement number (2552). My guess is that this is an earlier model as the inside of the case back is stamped Pat. Pend. If anyone has additional info I'd love to learn more!


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## sempervivens

Congratulations on your Zenith and welcome to the forum. It seems the bracelet could use a cleaning! Your watch should also have a case number on the outside of the back, which could help to date it more precisely.


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## AmraTheLIon

My first Zenith with gold plated case.These single and double black-striped markers are just amazing.


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## watchhunterandcollector

AmraTheLIon said:


> My first Zenith with non-steel case.These single and double black-striped markers are just amazing.
> View attachment 15464746


Beautiful dial and classic styled case! If you don't mind me saying, I would change to a leather strap to avoid wearing down the gold on the lugs. Very good buy!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Good companion at work! 133.8 Chronometre in a gold Spillmann case with hidden crown. From 1957.


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## dpn

I've posted this already in the specific "Octagonal Zenith Defy" thread, but I'm very happy to be wearing this 1971 Zenith Defy (A3642).


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## watchhunterandcollector

Stunning! Thanks for sharing!


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## 8505davids

Quartz day.


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## 5277

All steel,all 38mm but from 1971 / 1951 / 1938


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## 8505davids

Blue day


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## 8505davids

Silver day


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## watchhunterandcollector

This one just arrived from a German auction house. A Saurer labeled Sporto with a 126-6 movement under a plexiglass inner lid. I think it is from approx 1952. In another forum there were question raised about the originality of the dial. What do you honestly think?


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## watchhunterandcollector

5277 said:


> All steel,all 38mm but from 1971 / 1951 / 1938
> View attachment 15489521
> View attachment 15489522
> View attachment 15489523
> View attachment 15489524


Wonderful trio!


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## sempervivens

Congratulations. I vote original!


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## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations. I vote original!


Thanks my Zenith friend! Really appreciate it!


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## TgeekB

Up for sale/trade btw.









Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## montelatici




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## watchhunterandcollector

montelatici said:


> View attachment 15503400


That one makes me want to quartz! Wonderful🤛


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## Ted99999

Hello,this is my vintage Zenith Defy.
I think it's from 1972 and I believe its all original. I understand it has a 2572pc movement which I understand to be unadjusted. 
Would appreciate any information and comments to help me learn mire about the watch. I've owned it for about 10 years


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## sempervivens

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your Zenith Defy. I think it is a model from the mid '70s. The production date can be estimated to ca. 1973-75. Check this thread : Mid seventies Defy twins: 01.0020.380 versus 01.1370.380


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## Ted99999

Thank you for your reply.
I just checked out that thread in the link. How good is the 2572pc movement? Does it stand the test of time? And do you know why the movement was unadjusted? 
Thanks in advance


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## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to Watchuseek, also from me. The Cal. 2572 was the last in the long line of 25x2 movements and was the only one with a quick set date adjustment. Like in the El Primero (an unlike almost all other movements), the date is set in the second crown position whereas the intermediate crown position sets the time. I don't think that the movement was unadjusted (does it say so on the movement?); generally in those days, they merely didn't specify how many adjustments they made. On the whole, the movement should attain very good accuracy readings even without special adjustment.

Hartmut Richter


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## 8505davids

Change of case colour today


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## 8505davids

Just when I think I might have a few changes and sell a watch or two .... I put it on for pics, remember why I like it ... and think ...nah....I'll just keep it! Always seem to add more than I move on...


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## watchhunterandcollector

8505davids said:


> Just when I think I might have a few changes and sell a watch or two .... I put it on for pics, remember why I like it ... and think ...nah....I'll just keep it! Always seem to add more than I move on...
> 
> View attachment 15525133
> 
> 
> View attachment 15525136


Wonderful Sporto! The star and Z on the back is fantastic!


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## Birky1

Hi I'm new to Zenith and this is my 1st but I know nothing about it 
It has 01-0170-346 on the caseback 
Thank you in advance 
Stay safe and well
















Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## 8505davids

On leather for a change


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## Rifish

Zenith Defy A3642 with a yellow glass from early 1970.


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## design-of-the-times




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## 8505davids




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## Dean Learner

Just has this arrive in the post after a month long trip from a post office 3km away where the seller sent it from (didn't realise he was so close till too late). Somehow it arrived in another envelope sent from a local shop still inside the original envelope/packaging from the seller. There's a mystery I won't get to the bottom of but at least I finally got the watch.


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