# Archimede Outdoor Protect - looking for your pics, feedback & opinions



## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Greetings WUS collective:

due to some changes in my work life, I'm looking to add a second dress (dressier) watch to my collection. While I adore my Stowa Antea, I'd like to add something with a black dial and possibly a bracelet, which is slim enough for a tight cuff and will stand up well to travel (planes, trains, autos, etc.) This would really be for business use.

So I've been looking seriously at the *Archimede Outdoor Protect, *which I had read reviews of in the past (e.g. here and here), and was hoping to solicit some advice here on WUS. I like the unique design, the fact that it's not a common brand (otherwise I'd just wear my Omega <cough>), and in particular I am intrigued by the hardened steel case and matching bracelet.

Some questions:

- *Can anyone here who has the Outdoor or Outdoor Protect post a pic of it on their own wrist along with their wrist size?* I've got a 7.25" wrist, and the Outdoor comes in at 39mm. This would be one of the slimmest in my collection, and possibly too diminutive for my tastes. I would love to see it "in the wild" on other wrists.

- *Would you consider the Outdoor a suitable match for a dress shirt and sport coat, or possibly with a business suit? *The Outdoor bills itself as a sport/field watch, but by my eyes it seems reasonably dressy enough. I'm in the tech field, and I meet with execs, but things are not ultra formal. What are your thoughts on the dressiness of this watch?

- *Any general feedback about dealing with Archimede for service/support, or overall opinion about quality of their watches?* I've looked at sourcing this from Watchmann in the US but he only has the older non-Protect version, so I'd most likely be ordering this direct from the source in Germany. I've also been spoiled by Stowa's service, and I definitely have WIS OCD, so the bar is rather high for "getting it right" when I buy a new watch via mail order.

For reference, here's the specific version I'm looking at (from Archimede website):









Many thanks in advance!

Cheers
Eric


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## Robmks (Mar 17, 2006)

Don't know about the Outdoor, but had this for quite awhile. Very nice quality. I think it has a sandblasted finish. Not too rough with my watches, but after a number of years not a mark on the case.

Service/Support, don't know. Never had a need for either. But only heard good things about them.

Bob


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## GlennO (Jan 3, 2010)

No problem with a dress shirt and passable with a suit though your Antea would be better. I really like the Outdoor and have been tempted by it at times but each time my watch box has been full.


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## pley3r (Mar 15, 2014)

Archimede were easy to deal with when I bought a fliedger, great quality for the price amd mine at least was regulated really well. Been +1-2sec/day since I bought it 6 months ago.


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## richnyc (Feb 21, 2013)

ehansen said:


> - *Can anyone here who has the Outdoor or Outdoor Protect post a pic of it on their own wrist along with their wrist size?* I've got a 7.25" wrist, and the Outdoor comes in at 39mm. This would be one of the slimmest in my collection, and possibly too diminutive for my tastes. I would love to see it "in the wild" on other wrists.


Will do it for you when I get the watch next week... My wrists are 7.25" too


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## LH2 (Oct 25, 2009)

My wrist is just under 7" and here's my Outdoor Protect. You've probably read in the German forum that quite a few people consider this watch a solid value, especially now that it has a hardened case.

Greg at Watchmann could certainly order you a current model, but dealing with Ickler direct is really easy. Price will be the same either way. Main difference is Greg will ship USPS if that's your preference, whereas Ickler will only ship FedEx.


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback and wrist shots, everyone ... I can feel my inhibitions weakening.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

Ickler products have always been of great quality for me. I admire the in-house manufacturing aspect that you just don't get with comparable brands. Look at Icklers closest competition and compare feature to feature versus the price. No competition really.

The Outdoor has been called reminiscent of a Rolex Explorer in looks. That should speak to it's wearability in a more formal setting.


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Chase is over, now the wait... I'll post a mini review when the goods arrive! I went direct to Ickler and also got the sapphire case back upgrade.


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## zetaplus93 (Jul 22, 2013)

I'm also looking at the Outdoor Protect. FYI, just found a pic for a gent with 7.25" wrists:

Sinn 556 Vs Archimede Outdoor Protect - Page 3


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Just circling back on this. Received the Outdoor Protect today from Archimede. Shipped yesterday from Germany and arrived today (overnight) in Boston. Total of about 3 weeks from my order date, and Archimede was great throughout with communication.

Here are some preliminary cell phone pics and comments. I'll do a follow up review after I've had it for a bit longer.

So far it's been on my wrist for a few hours. Size is just fine, I think... that was a concern of mine. Quality is high (dial and case are basically perfect), though I'll say that the brushing is somewhat coarse. This may be due the hardening process - I'm not sure if it's hardened before or after finishing ... probably before, so maybe brushing is more difficult given the outermost layer of hardened steel?

There is some discoloration on parts of the bracelet and clasp, shown in pics below. I'm curious to hear from others here if this is par for the course or not. I've not seen this on any other watch purchase I've made. Any cursory inspection / QC should've noticed this, so I have to assume it is acceptable from Archimede's perspective. (Not sure yet if it's acceptable by _my_ QC, but I have a knack for finding things wrong.)

So here the the pics to prove it all happened 

In the box:










Up close:










Sized for my 7.25 wrist. One thing to note is that the clasp (the main one, not the smaller locking part) takes some real effort to pop open. I'd expect this will get easier with use.




























Here's the optional sapphire display back I went for. The Sellita movement is pretty plain, but I do like having the visibility. Maybe it's not so toolish, but hey, if the rotor gets stuck or some other problem, perhaps this'll help me to diagnose.  Fwiw Archimede said they would still offer a money-back satisfaction return, even with this minor customization.










Crown & guards:










The clasp has some discoloration on it... Any recommendations for if / how this can be cleaned up?



















A little rough / discolored on one of the bracelet links:










Side by side with my SMP (for size comparison):










Lastly, here's the bonus multi tool... It's branded Archimede, though the box very prominently says Puma Tec. Anyone know where these are made? (Methinks Asia.) It's much larger and more substantial than I was expecting. Not bad at all for a freebie, but definitely sub-Leatherman, quality wise...










That's all for now. Happy Friday!

Eric


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## Crumpsa (Oct 30, 2014)

Hi Eric. I've been considering this watch myself so thanks for bumping the thread with your pictures. I think anyone's QC would consider that discolouration as unnaceptable. In the pics it looks almost burnt like someone has held a lighter to it. In any case, I'd contact Archimede right away and tell them.


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## Emil Kraeplin (Nov 28, 2013)

I would contact them also, that discoloration is unacceptable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Emil Kraeplin said:


> I would contact them also, that discoloration is unacceptable.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OK yeah, I think so too. I'll email them and update the thread with any outcome.

Eric


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

ehansen said:


> OK yeah, I think so too. I'll email them and update the thread with any outcome.
> 
> Eric


Curious as to the verdict of what the discoloration could be. Metallurgy can be a tricky proposition, and this hardening process being a new one for Ickler, there could be a tie-in. No doubt Ickler will live up to their reputation for customer service and put a new bracelet on the watch.


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## jerseywatchman (May 31, 2006)

Nice looking Outdoor Protect, congrats and thanks for sharing. I find it very hard to believe Ickler could ship a watch with that discoloration on the clasp. Did anybody check the watch before they packaged it!!! Unbelievable and totally unacceptable.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Emailed Mr. ickler as well. Curious what his visually findings are.


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## whoa (May 5, 2013)

I couldn't live with that! Would hate it every time looking at it.. However i do like the watch, simple and easy time telling! Congrats! And I like the caseback  

-Sent using Rock, Paper and the occasional Scissors-


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## jyyck (Mar 20, 2014)

Great watch. Goes well with suit and tie imo. My wrist is about 7"









Sent from my smart watch using Tapatalk


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Here's a terminology question... I believe the W&W review said the Outdoor had solid end links, but from what I gather they're actually hollow / folded. Here's a pic. What do you think?


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## cheoah (Aug 16, 2014)

Not sure what's going on there with the end link, it's not what I'm accustomed to for a solid end link. Looks like this allows for some movement, which could have its pluses and minuses. I just spent a half hour extracting a spring pin from my sinn 857 UTC last night,distorted from wear. Watch is only a year old. 

Looks like the bracelet changes very easily though, just keep an eye on the pin -- and change it from time to time. cheap Insurance. 

Cool watch, I think we are all baffled by the discoloration. Hard,to imagine how someone could put a nice watch like that into a box and ship it out, so perhaps we are missing something. 

Does look like flame could have done it. Any chance it came into context with a dissimilar metal? That it happened over a days time doesn't make sense. 

At any rate, it doesn't change the fact that you just got a great watch, You just have to sort out some details and make it right. 

Despite general counsel not to say this, "wear it in good health" anyway!



Sent from my iSomething using tapatalk


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

cheoah said:


> Cool watch, I think we are all baffled by the discoloration. Hard,to imagine how someone could put a nice watch like that into a box and ship it out, so perhaps we are missing something.
> 
> Does look like flame could have done it. Any chance it came into context with a dissimilar metal? That it happened over a days time doesn't make sense.


On the clasp, the discoloration does seems to be where the spring bars were set, so maybe there is some interaction between the two metals. Still, I think it's basically impossible that this occurred within the 24 hour period between packaging in Germany to my taking delivery of it in the US. So, while the cause/effect of the metal discoloration itself is puzzling, the fact that it went unnoticed might be even more troubling. You'd think boutique brands would be sensitive to the fact that most (if not all?) of their customers are detail-obsessed freaks who all talk with one another on WUS.


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## Emil Kraeplin (Nov 28, 2013)

I honestly think that this will be very detrimental to the future sales if this watch. I was considering buying it, but this has dissuaded me. I agree with OP that the WIS community is probably the biggest group of buyers of the Protect and details like this are very important to us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cheoah (Aug 16, 2014)

I guess it's possible the discoloration on the bracelet is related to the surface treatment. The marks on the clasp holes look like they are related to the manufacturing process, maybe plasma, laser or possibly drill - all hot. I have no idea how they do that process. It's as if it missed a ride in the tumbler, or some polishing. Or got overheated and case hardened or at least discolored. 

I can see if they are in a growth phase or,implementing new processes that they might overlook one, but management is not gonna be happy. Whoever is ultimately responsible for the final check, didn't help marketing efforts. 

I'm sure it'll get straightened right out for you, but this company will have to step it up on the QC front. 


Sent from my iSomething using tapatalk


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

stuffler said:


> Emailed Mr. ickler as well. Curious what his visually findings are.


He will look into it on MON, currently not in Pforzheim.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

In no way will this incident hurt Ickler at all. They are far from a boutique brand, with the multi-generational Ickler family being in business for more than 90 years. If you've spent any time at all on the German watch forum, you know their impeccable reputation for quality. That reputation among the WIS crowd is beyond well established. It would take a whole lot more than some discoloration on a bracelet (not the watch) to change that. If a few discolorations on a bracelet of all things scares you off from a company, then that's a shame indeed.


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## Emil Kraeplin (Nov 28, 2013)

A little discoloration on a watch approaching a thousand dollars is absolutely unacceptable, especially when the selling point of the watch is the surface treatment on the case and bracelet. It's not like the OP found some micro flaw under a loupe, the damn bracelet is brown. There is not enough critical evaluation on these forums. Seems like a brand that has been around for ninety years would have this thing looked at before being sent out. 


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

Emil Kraeplin said:


> A little discoloration on a watch approaching a thousand dollars is absolutely unacceptable, especially when the selling point of the watch is the surface treatment on the case and bracelet. It's not like the OP found some micro flaw under a loupe, the damn bracelet is brown. There is not enough critical evaluation on these forums. Seems like a brand that has been around for ninety years would have this thing looked at before being sent out.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, the damn bracelet is brown. You must have missed the point I mentioned earlier about this process of hardening a case and bracelet being a really new one for Ickler. This one example's bracelet had a flaw. They have an impeccable reputation for 90 years... that's with dealing in regular SS, not a brand new process. Could it be that it wouldn't even cross their mind that this could happen? Damasko had some brown spotting with their ice-hardening process when they first started. The watches were sent out, then the spots appeared. Don't hear about the spotting with Damasko's anymore. Throwing away a company (or dismissing a model) for trying something innovative is pretty short-sighted. I'd rather appreciate them for the effort and commend them on how they handle a rare situation. I guess they would get more appreciation from you if they just did things the easy way and kept doing what they have always done.


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

I'll let yall know how it turns out. I'm reserving judgement, and certainly it isn't the first time anyone has gotten a less than perfect watch. We'll see how it goes...


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## Emil Kraeplin (Nov 28, 2013)

CM Hunter, I said that the sales of this watch will be affected, not the entire brand. However, at what point are we allowed to critique a watch or even a brand for that matter? One watch, two watches, 1000 watches? I suppose that I am a different type of consumer. If I am spending this amount of money on a luxury product I don't think it is acceptable for even one model to look like this. Perhaps I am "short sighted" in your words (which is a bit offensive), but perhaps you are not critical enough. However, this is the beauty of capitalism. For every person that is so critical like me there will be another person that is more forgiving.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

Emil Kraeplin said:


> CM Hunter, I said that the sales of this watch will be affected, not the entire brand. However, at what point are we allowed to critique a watch or even a brand for that matter? One watch, two watches, 1000 watches? I suppose that I am a different type of consumer. If I am spending this amount of money on a luxury product I don't think it is acceptable for even one model to look like this. Perhaps I am "short sighted" in your words (which is a bit offensive), but perhaps you are not critical enough. However, this is the beauty of capitalism. For every person that is so critical like me there will be another person that is more forgiving.


I knew you were going to point out saying the model and not the brand. It's why I went back and added it.

Trust me, I can be (usually am) very critical when it comes to things like this. This is so unlike this brand, that I have to think that it's the new territory that's the culprit with this model. That's why I'm not being so critical in general. However, I think everybody should demand the best when they plop down their money, and I admire that you feel so strongly about it. Just makes sense.

I guess I fed off of the tone (use of damn) in your message. I apologize for my choice of words and didn't mean to offend.


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## Emil Kraeplin (Nov 28, 2013)

Right on CM! Looking forward to seeing how Ickler handles this.


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## Viellektric (Jul 24, 2013)

Any updated from the OP about the issue?


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Viellektric said:


> Any updated from the OP about the issue?


Received a response today, for my email on Friday, from Mr Thomas Ickler. Said he would have someone look into it on Monday.

Eric


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## richnyc (Feb 21, 2013)

Dude,

That looks bad. Mine certainly isn't anything like that. It isn't spotless, I too have a slight discoloration on my clasp but it is in the pinholes under the securing clasp so I never see it, on one side only... No discoloration anywhere on my bracelet links or ends. And definitely no scratches.

I have a hard time believing that this was a simple oversight as you had a see-through case back custom installed so whoever put that watch together had to clearly see what kind of a bracelet he put on. That's just lazy and unacceptable. Definitely want to see how Archimede responds to you.

If I'm you I certainly demand at least a bracelet replacement. I'm happy with mine but if I'd seen yours before buying mine, I'd be a little apprehensive to buy the watch. When I get home will take some pics with my macro lens so you can compare it.

All the best with the replacement, it looks like from the comments here that Archimede, and Ickler by association, will stand behind their product.


Regarding my OutDoor Protect, I have some light scratches on my case back as it seems it is just regular SS steel. They were my fault when having the watch in my bag and shoving it into a locker when in a gym. I guess the treated bracelet pressed into it and scratched it... Doesn't bother me at all as the bracelet and the case are spotless, even after my two weeks of 'abuse', biking and showering with it, virtually having it on wrist 24/7... The treated surface really delivers, even after a few unexpected bangs into doors at work and one 'encounter' with a metal pole in a NYC subway car, I cannot see any scratches on the case

Good luck again with your claim.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OH Redhawk (Jun 18, 2009)

To me, the brown stains appear to be the result of residual oil or contaminants left on the steel prior to heat treatment. If so, the easiest way to remove the discoloration would be some type of mechanical cleaning, say, buffing with Scotchbrite.


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## EHV (Mar 30, 2010)

I wouldn't touch that hardened surface with a Scotchbrite pad or anything else. I don't think that it's like normal brushed SS. We'll see what Mr. Ickler has to say. I have no doubt that he'll set it right and I'd bet that the OP will receive a new watch or a definitive method from the source as to how to remove all of the discoloration.



OH Redhawk said:


> To me, the brown stains appear to be the result of residual oil or contaminants left on the steel prior to heat treatment. If so, the easiest way to remove the discoloration would be some type of mechanical cleaning, say, buffing with Scotchbrite.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Re: Discoloration

According to Thomas Ickler who checked back with the company hardening the steel the discoloration (spots and or stains) are an unwanted but not worrisome effect of the hardening process. Like member 'OH Redhawk' write this is probably residual oil coming out of cavities, especially out of the spring bars. Some bracelets show this effect after hardening and Ickler easily remove it through cleaning the surface carefully. It might occure in a very few cases that the resdual oil can show up out later after the QC due to the transport. Should not happen but.....
Ickler staff tested this morning how to remove the spots with usual household cleanser like eg 'Frosch Cream Cleaner Lemon' or 'Ecover', soft abrasive of course.


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## OH Redhawk (Jun 18, 2009)

EHV said:


> I wouldn't touch that hardened surface with a Scotchbrite pad or anything else. I don't think that it's like normal brushed SS. We'll see what Mr. Ickler has to say. I have no doubt that he'll set it right and I'd bet that the OP will receive a new watch or a definitive method from the source as to how to remove all of the discoloration.


Ha, what do you think a mild abrasive would do to a hardened steel surface? Heat treatment actually changes the crystalline structure of the metal to better align the grain for increased hardness. This takes place within the actual material - not just on the surface. Cleaning the visible surfaces will not affect any mechanical properties imparted by the treatment.

Mike Stuffler: since you are in contact with the manufacturer, maybe you can recommend alternating temperature pre-cleaning cycles prior to heat treat. Elevated temp cleaning (150F or above) followed by a lower temp cleaning should be enough to draw out the stubborn entrapped oils. Also, a simple water break-free test should indicate a clean, oil-free surface following cleaning and prior to heat treatment.


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## Viellektric (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks very much Mike for the information, it is good to know Mr. Ickler is following the issue closely.


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Just to sync back, Mr Ickler replied to me essentially with the same info he sent to Mike. They offered a few options including replacing the bracelet, which is what I'm electing. So, some additional time will pass before the new bracelet, which I'll swap out myself. Will update the thread once it's all resolved.


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## blowfish89 (Apr 15, 2014)

Thanks for updating us, let us know how it goes. Glad to see its getting sorted out - I have the same watch in my future sights.


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## richnyc (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks for the update

Here my macro shots of the sides of my bracelet clasp. They are both really small.The first one is hiding under a securing clasp, so I never see it. The other side is perfect on the clasp. Only a slight mark near a pinhole on a link, not visible with a naked eye. I know hard to believe.

Loving the watch, these little blemishes don't bother me at all... The 1,200 HV hardness works wonders so far, not a scratch on the case or bracelet surface My first ever hardened steel watch. I think I will have a hard time to get back to normal SS watches now... I have never experienced such a thing with any of my SS watch. Normally, even after a casual but careful wearing of a regular stainless steel watch for a day, or two, I will start seeing 'micro' scratches under magnifying glass.


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## richnyc (Feb 21, 2013)

Adding a few pics to this thread... Enjoy:


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

Thanks for the extra pics. The blue lume looks cool. You still seem to be proud to have the watch even though the issues with bracelet occurred. Very commendable.


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## richnyc (Feb 21, 2013)

CM HUNTER said:


> Thanks for the extra pics. The blue lume looks cool. You still seem to be proud to have the watch even though the issues with bracelet occurred. Very commendable.


Yep, not a big nitpicker and my issues were nothing when compared to ehansen's 'messed' up bracelet. Hope the new one is on the way to him, so he can enjoy it just as I do


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

New bracelet is supposed to ship this coming week... looking forward to hopefully getting it all resolved. I'll update the thread accordingly, and also post some more detailed thoughts about the watch.


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## gaptooth00 (Dec 21, 2011)

I guess I have been lucky 

Not any sign of discolouration at all

no blemishes or imperfections

very happy with this little watch


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

gaptooth00 said:


> I guess I have been lucky
> 
> Not any sign of discolouration at all
> 
> ...


Great to hear that your bracelet is perfect. That's quite a number without flaws that I know of and two with. Appears to be an oversight with the hardening procedure that Ickler wasn't aware of. According to Mr. Ickler, the discolorations happened after the watches were sent out so QC saw nothing wrong. Thanks to this thread, they are now aware of a manufacturing procedure to be on top of. Beauty of these threads.

These pieces are great value, and yours looks perfect on your wrist. Congrats.


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## EHV (Mar 30, 2010)

I'm just looking for follow up on this thread. I hope that ehansen got his bracelet issue taken care of. 
I suspect that all is well by now and I'm hoping to read as much.

Eric



ehansen said:


> New bracelet is supposed to ship this coming week... looking forward to hopefully getting it all resolved. I'll update the thread accordingly, and also post some more detailed thoughts about the watch.


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

EHV said:


> I'm just looking for follow up on this thread. I hope that ehansen got his bracelet issue taken care of.
> I suspect that all is well by now and I'm hoping to read as much.


Greetings! Well I ended up sending my watch back to Ickler, and only just finally received it back in my possession less than a week ago. They took care of the bracelet by cleaning it somehow (so they didn't replace it), but more significantly they actually replaced the watch case because of a flat spot on the finishing that I identified.

So, it's back with me now after a US/import delay of a week (FedEx held it due to paperwork issues), and in fact I've got it with me traveling this week. I intend to write a longer review with pics and more details about the service experience with Ickler. All in all, far from perfect, but generally good and I still intend to keep the watch. There are a few things that the OCD-types would object to, like a very small particle of dust or metal fragment having appeared on the face of the watch (barely visible to the naked eye, of course more visible under a loupe ... only there since Ickler serviced it), but in general I'm happy. Accuracy is running about +7 to +8 secs per day, which is fine for me.

The overall design and wearability of the watch suits me well, and my intended purpose which was an alternative dress watch (business / business casual.) One of my key concerns going into this was the size, and I can report that I no longer feel 42-43mm is my ideal size, but rather 40-43mm, which going down to 39mm for dressier watches. The OutDoor in particular does wear a little bit larger than its dimensions might suggest, even with the L2L (lugless) being quite short. The bracelet complements the watch and balances the size, and the unusual design also makes you visualize it differently. The design is IMHO more on the modern, or retro-modern side ... really interesting to me. Like something you might wear on Space Lab or from THX 1138 (I'm dating myself with both of those refs!  Anyways, I really doubt I will every come across another one of these in the wild, and even with the history of the brand the guys at the Tourneau shop won't have a clue what it is.

So, long story short, I'll write more to come in the next few weeks after its had more wrist time, though happy to answer any other questions here in the meantime ...

Thanks!

Eric


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

ehansen said:


> Greetings! Well I ended up sending my watch back to Ickler, and only just finally received it back in my possession less than a week ago. They took care of the bracelet by cleaning it somehow (so they didn't replace it), but more significantly they actually replaced the watch case because of a flat spot on the finishing that I identified.
> 
> So, it's back with me now after a US/import delay of a week (FedEx held it due to paperwork issues), and in fact I've got it with me traveling this week. I intend to write a longer review with pics and more details about the service experience with Ickler. All in all, far from perfect, but generally good and I still intend to keep the watch. There are a few things that the OCD-types would object to, like a very small particle of dust or metal fragment having appeared on the face of the watch (barely visible to the naked eye, of course more visible under a loupe ... only there since Ickler serviced it), but in general I'm happy. Accuracy is running about +7 to +8 secs per day, which is fine for me.
> 
> ...


What an ordeal. Very surprising to hear all of the hoops that had to be jumped through and to still have a particle on the dial. Maybe Ickler's getting a little more business than they can adequately handle therefore making other areas suffer. Whatever it is, I hope they get back to their old rock solid ways sooner rather than later.


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

CM HUNTER said:


> What an ordeal. Very surprising to hear all of the hoops that had to be jumped through and to still have a particle on the dial. Maybe Ickler's getting a little more business than they can adequately handle therefore making other areas suffer. Whatever it is, I hope they get back to their old rock solid ways sooner rather than later.


I'm not thrilled with this new wrinkle (particle), but it's small enough that even I can probably tolerate it ... and my bigger concern is that if I send it back for fixing it - again - then something else might go wrong. I also didn't like having to wait nearly three weeks to get back a watch I had only had for a week in the first place (this was also about 3 weeks from when I originally ordered it.) Still, I can't help but conclude that it's just a lower bar for QC. Certainly not the end of the world (it still tells time), but as they say "it is what it is."

Of course, had I bought this at a retail shop, I would have gotten quicker and more complete resolution, since I just would have avoided taking possession of an item with these issues in the first place.


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## Tony Abbate (Dec 15, 2012)

Glad to hear that your issues have mostly been addressed, BUT "I can probably tolerate it" isn't the response I would be having.

Its not what I have come to expect of Ickler. I own and love several of their products so I don't think our expectations on QC should be lowered.

I have been watching this thread as I was ready to pull the trigger a month ago.

Did anyone notice the white dial Outdoor Protect is no longer available?...I was looking forward to the reverse lume dial as I have enough black dial watches already.

I just sent an inquiry and will post back when I hear from them.


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Tony Abbate said:


> Glad to hear that your issues have mostly been addressed, BUT "I can probably tolerate it" isn't the response I would be having.
> 
> Its not what I have come to expect of Ickler. I own and love several of their products so I don't think our expectations on QC should be lowered.


So with full disclosure, here are the remaining issues. Obviously it's a personal decision ultimately, but would you consider these minute enough to pass QC?

1) Newly appeared particle on face, upper left of logo (both with and without flash). I swear this is not on the outside of the crystal; when the second hand passes, it's clearly underneath, on the surface of the face...


















Unfortunately it's the Seinfeld "spot on the sweater", once you know it's there....

2) Some sort of scratch on the crown, which is visible due to the position it's exposed when the crown is fully screwed down. It is only about a quarter of the circumference.










So what would you do? Stop crying and be happy? Or go back for another round of shipping, repair, waiting... and hoping third time's a charm?

Answers on a postcard please 

Eric


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## windows95 (May 24, 2013)

For all the grief so far, return for a refund.


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## blowfish89 (Apr 15, 2014)

Thats tough Eric  
The issues here, my own thoughts and the poll results here - https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/what-would-you-buy-archimede-vs-hamilton-1225650.html have made up my mind about getting the Hammy instead of the Archimede. I had a look at one yesterday at a local AD and was impressed.


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## LH2 (Oct 25, 2009)

The particle, although minor, would bug the heck out of me. The milling mark on the crown is totally unsatisfactory.

Earlier this year, my Outdoor Protect had a metal sliver from the case manufacturing stuck in the escapement, so it wasn't running when it got to me from Germany. Ickler paid shipping both ways to The Last Windup (Montana), one of Ickler's authorized repair facilities here in the USA.

Maybe rather than shipping to Germany, you could send it to The Last Windup? Would probably be quicker. 

I know sales volume is up at Ickler - the word has gotten out that their product is an excellent for the price, and their line is much more diverse than just a couple of years ago. I think that your experience (and mine) are rare isolated incidents, and I hope they aren't an indicator of declining quality on a broader scale. FWIW, I've owned a double-digit number of Ickler watches, and my Outdoor was the first one with any issue.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

I agree with LH2 here. I'd send to the authorized repair facility in the US that Ickler recommends.

Also, these number of issues lately seem to be directly associated with this one newly updated model. Something is obviously amiss. Would like to know what it is. At this point, it would keep me away from this particular model, but it absolutely wouldn't keep me from Ickler altogether. I've had nothing but great experiences with them.


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## Tony Abbate (Dec 15, 2012)

Return to closest center for repair with the understanding that if the repairs aren't satisfactory, return for a full refund.


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## EHV (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks for your update and I'm sorry that more issues arose.

I don't know that I'd be able to live with the watch as is. I find it very surprised that if both bracelet and watch case had issues, then why wasn't the whole watch just replaced with a new one instead of replacing just the watch case and correcting the existing bands problems. Now you have problems with the dial and crown that weren't there before and how much did Ickler really save by doing the fix this way?

A whole new watch with a new bracelet should have been issued IMO. Now, I would probably try for the US repair facility option for the dial and a new crown. Back to Germany means ??? as you mention plus the possibility of some more time away from the watch and/or yet another customs issue and all of this after you've paid in full.

Very surprising from Ickler but hopefully, they will make it right and that it's an isolated incident.


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## Millbarge (Apr 3, 2014)

This situation is going to cost them customers and they really should just send you a new watch


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

And so we come to the end of the story...


I brought to Ickler's attention the new particle under the crystal, as well as the scratch on the circumference of the crown. I communicated via email back and forth with Mr Ickler himself, who explained that the particle is most likely a flake of superluminova that was dislodged. I'm not sure if I can confirm that, since it doesn't glow, but it's there and that's that. As for the crown, the explanation is that unlike the case itself, the crown is actually not hardened, and thus when screwing/unscrewing, if the crown wiggles and contacts the crown guards (which are hardened) then it can scratch. So that's probably what happened. Kind of a bummer.


As for resolution, Ickler offered only one recourse: full refund. They will pay for return shipping to Germany so that's what I'll do. Repair or replacement were specifically not options, so while I do like the watch and would really prefer to keep it (though in proper 'new' condition), my only choices here are to keep it as-is or return it for a refund. No repair option, no replacement option, only refund.


I can commend Ickler, and in particular Mr Thomas Ickler, with whom I've emailed back and forth on this matter over the past month. They've been good about communicating, even if the final resolution essentially boils down to "let's both cut our losses". This is my only experience with Ickler/Archimede and from what I have heard, this is perhaps exceptional. I find it more unusual that the only final option is refund instead of making it right, but if that's how this ends, then so be it.


I had planned on doing a review of the OutDoor Protect watch ... but needless to say I don't think it would be very positive and thus this thread can serve instead.


So moving on ... any recommendations for a comparable on-the-dressy-side durable watch from another brand?


Thanks,
Eric


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## blowfish89 (Apr 15, 2014)

Good job by Ickler offering you a full refund, even though the overall experience was painful for you.

Its really hard to suggest an alternative since there are no other hardened case watches below 1k$. However, there are plenty of options in general for that price. How about stepping up to a Sinn or Damasko ?

I personally am going for the Hamilton Pan Europ 3 hander in blue, but I understand that its quite different from the Outdoor Protect.


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## Tony Abbate (Dec 15, 2012)

Im glad your ordeal is over but to me, this doesn't sit well as far as customer satisfaction. And as a prospective buyer of the Protect, I know I won't be considering it any longer. 

MAYBE...keyword maybe, they brought this upgraded watch to market and have since found some issues they aren't willing to share publicly. I don't understand how the company expects to sell this line to anyone that reads this tread. 

It would have been great to hear from Ickler here with an explanation of their position.

Too bad...it had such a great niche carved out both price and feature wise.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

It's true we're hearing about a couple of buyers issues here. I've seen positive ones for this model as well. It would be in the back of my mind if I was considering a purchase of this model, but since an alternative in this price range has yet to be discovered, I'd still take my chances. If a full refund is the outcome if I get a bad experience, then no harm no foul.

Speaking of being the only outcome... couldn't a qualified watchmaker remove the particle? I'm not sure why Mr. Ickler doesn't want his to do it, but that doesn't mean others won't. Yes you'd have to pay for that, but if you're really wanting to keep the watch it's a viable move. As for the mark on the crown? It would be nice if the crown was hardened to, but it is what it is. At least that issue kinda adds up.


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## Millbarge (Apr 3, 2014)

The real problem, as a potential customer, is that there really aren't that many good alternatives out there...
seems like a section of the market that really hasn't been exploited yet...
everybody's too busy making yet another submariner "homage" or some new giant dive watch that goes to 50000000 meters, but requires a team of helpers if you wish to lift your arm.


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## Jason_R (Mar 31, 2014)

This thread is bumming me out. I had really planned on this being my next watch. Now I'm not sure...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## blowfish89 (Apr 15, 2014)

Jason_R said:


> This thread is bumming me out. I had really planned on this being my next watch. Now I'm not sure...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


One option is to upgrade to Damasko/Sinn directly.
I moved on to my alternate choice for now. Going to the Hamilton AD tomorrow with my credit card


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

blowfish89 said:


> One option is to upgrade to Damasko/Sinn directly.
> I moved on to my alternate choice for now. Going to the Hamilton AD tomorrow with my credit card


Aha, yes.... I've a feeling my DC66 may be getting a braceleted little brother soon...


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## Millbarge (Apr 3, 2014)

if this was 40mm with 20mm lugs or 42mm with 22mm lugs i would buy it in a second...
bummer...
it is just too small for me and the lugs make natos or any aftermarket strap look tiny and badly proportioned


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Just to put some (personal) closure on this topic, I did end up getting a full refund from Eckler for the OutDoor.

That, in turn, subsidized a new Damasko DA34 with bracelet, which Santa delivered early to me (last week), and I'm very happy with. The Damasko is a step up for sure (product and cost) from the Archimede, but ultimately it was about meeting my requirement for a watch that is business-capable, cuff friendly, non-flashy, niche brand, hardened steel case, hardened bracelet, and generally overengineered wherever possible. Oh, and German.  At 40mm width it's a bit larger than the OutDoor, but size wise works great for me (7.25" wrist.) The Damasko bracelet is indeed hardcore, and finishing is overall perfect. Calling it a bracelet almost seems a misnomer, it's like a piece of a tank tread, repurposed for the wrist. Anyways, I'll put up a mini review of the whole shebang after it's been on my wrist a few more weeks.

Pics here, to show it all happened:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/wruw-wednesday-december-24-2014-a-1360953-8.html#post11048561

Thanks to all for following my travails here, advice and wisdom ... best wishes to you for the holidays!

Eric


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## Millbarge (Apr 3, 2014)

ehansen said:


> Just to put some (personal) closure on this topic, I did end up getting a full refund from Eckler for the OutDoor.
> 
> That, in turn, subsidized a new Damasko DA34 with bracelet, which Santa delivered early to me (last week), and I'm very happy with. The Damasko is a step up for sure (product and cost) from the Archimede, but ultimately it was about meeting my requirement for a watch that is business-capable, cuff friendly, non-flashy, niche brand, hardened steel case, hardened bracelet, and generally overengineered wherever possible. Oh, and German.  At 40mm width it's a bit larger than the OutDoor, but size wise works great for me (7.25" wrist.) The Damasko bracelet is indeed hardcore, and finishing is overall perfect. Calling it a bracelet almost seems a misnomer, it's like a piece of a tank tread, repurposed for the wrist. Anyways, I'll put up a mini review of the whole shebang after it's been on my wrist a few more weeks.
> 
> ...


Very cool watch you ended with...
in part this thread also helped me choose a Damasko, the DA46 for me...
Thanks for sharing this all with us.


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## Lucible (Feb 14, 2014)

I was shocked to hear this story but I'm glad you found a great alternative. Sometimes it really is best to cut your losses and start afresh with something else.


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## Jcp311 (Mar 20, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your experience, I recieved my outdoor protect for Christmas and I love it. I didn't notice any of the issues you were referring to save a small milling mark on the crown. It really didn't bother as I've gotten other brand new watches with similiar "production scuffs." Had this been a 1000+ watch I might have sent it back. 

Dust under the crystal is what drives me absolutely insane. Thankfully my outdoor is perfect in this regard.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

Yesterday ordered the OutDoor Protect w/bracelet due to the recent drop in Euro. But I only just read this thread today.

Cross my fingers and hope that mine will be fine. Will post my finding of any defects about 2 weeks later (hopefully).

Have a great day!


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## blowfish89 (Apr 15, 2014)

I ended up with a Damasko DA44.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

blowfish89 said:


> I ended up with a Damasko DA44.


.....which is a good choice. Congrats.


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

blowfish89 said:


> I ended up with a Damasko DA44.


My DA34 says "hi" to your DA44


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

SimpleWatchMan said:


> Yesterday ordered the OutDoor Protect w/bracelet due to the recent drop in Euro. But I only just read this thread today.
> 
> Cross my fingers and hope that mine will be fine. Will post my finding of any defects about 2 weeks later (hopefully).
> 
> Have a great day!


My OutDoor Protect arrived yesterday and I am happy to report everything seems ok.

Only thing that I don't like is I can't reduce the 6 o'clock links to 4 piece. The least is 5 links, which caused the clasp to shift off centre from the back of my 6-6.2" wrist. Ideally, I like my watches to have 3.5 links at 6 o'clock (like my Sub 114060).

I had removed all the 4 links and the clasp had been set to the tightest and fit just nicely.

One more thing, a small package of sweet came with the package.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

Forgot to add that to my surprise, it come with diver extension.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

Great to hear that another example is fine. A fluke can happen sometimes. Ickler is a proactive company and will do what they need to do to ensure that a product they put out is worthy of doing so. If it was truly a chronic problem, you wouldn't still see it being offered. Not every brand can say that.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

Also, I am happy to report the accuracy. Fully wound, my simple timegrapher results :

Dial up : +1/2s

6 down : +3/4s

9 down : +1/2s

12 down : 0+1s

Dial down : +3/4s

3 down : +5/6s

I am lucky to have COSC result out of the box.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

I read a whole thread again just to see what other issues reported I had missed. Nope, I did not have any similar issue reported.

I think I might have found my perfect watch (under US$1000) after almost 2 years of searching. Mostly likely, it will steal most of my wrist time, maybe all the way till the day I die. 

I feel very sorry that OP is so unfortunate to have the bracelet issue in the beginning, which lead to other issues later. At least he did managed to get a good alternative in the end.

Interestingly, someone have issues with his Damasko in this thread.
https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/damas...atches-1216458.html?highlight=Outdoor+protect

Maybe just some form of watch karma?

Lastly, I have this question in mind. Did any Archimede owner receive any free multi-tool like OP did? I only got a small package of sweet as free gift.

Have a great day!


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

I'm smiling that subsequent purchases of the OutDoor Protect have been issue-free. Makes me wonder if I should have waited a few weeks to place my original order! Glad others have had no problems and good experiences so far.

For what it's worth, my original OutDoor order did come with both the multitool and the candy. I kept the candy , but the multitool had to be sent back with the watch upon return. I believe the multitool was part of a short-time sales promotion they were having, so it's likely long over with.

I had also read that Damasko thread, though didn't think too much of it because I already owned a Damasko (no problems), plus I purchased both through Watchmann and I knew Greg would stand behind any product he sold. Speaking of which, I would have bought the original Achimede OutDoor through him as well, but when I was shopping for it he only had in stock the original OutDoor, not the Protect version. Hence I went direct to Archimede.

So, happy OutDoor to all... I still love the design, and can give credit to this particular watch for re-orienting my size preferences towards smaller watches. I used to be a 42-43 guy, now I feel like I'm a 40-42 guy. 

Cheers!


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## LH2 (Oct 25, 2009)

Wearing my Outdoor Protekt today. It is a watch I like more the more that I wear it. Comfortable, legible, durable... I'm happy with it!


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

LH2 said:


> Wearing my Outdoor Protekt today. It is a watch I like more the more that I wear it. Comfortable, legible, durable... I'm happy with it!


Same feeling here. 

It was a pleasure wearing my OutDoor Protect for the past 1 week.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

ehansen said:


> I'm smiling that subsequent purchases of the OutDoor Protect have been issue-free. Makes me wonder if I should have waited a few weeks to place my original order! Glad others have had no problems and good experiences so far.
> 
> For what it's worth, my original OutDoor order did come with both the multitool and the candy. I kept the candy , but the multitool had to be sent back with the watch upon return. I believe the multitool was part of a short-time sales promotion they were having, so it's likely long over with.
> 
> ...


In fact, I am such a big fan of my OutDoor Protect that I updated my Avatar. Previously, I did not bother to place any picture for my Avatar picture area.


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## Watch Hund (Sep 14, 2013)

Mine's been flawless in timekeeping and durability for a couple months now. So nice not to fret about the case, links, or AR coating during various tasks. And since I haven't worn my damasko since the outdoor protect arrived, I guess I've come to appreciate the lower profile and a thinner watch in general.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

I found some issue with my bracelet and posted it on another thread https://www.watchuseek.com/f8/archimede-outdoor-protect-bracelet-1572282.html

I wonder OP (ehansen) of this thread have any bracelet issues with his Damasko DA34?


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

SimpleWatchMan said:


> I found some issue with my bracelet and posted it on another thread https://www.watchuseek.com/f8/archimede-outdoor-protect-bracelet-1572282.html
> 
> I wonder OP (ehansen) of this thread have any bracelet issues with his Damasko DA34?


No issues with my Damasko DA34, or its bracelet, thus far. The Damasko bracelet is very different than the Outdoor's. The Damasko bracelet is the same hardened steel and overall design as the watch case, it's fully machined with very tight tolerance and almost no play. End links are also machined and fitted (vs folded), links individually screwed in with two torx bolts per (vs pressure fit pins), the clasp mechanism is butterfly style with ceramic ball bearings. On the wrist, the bracelet is ultra secure and takes some effort to remove! With some removal of extra links, the Damasko bracelet happens to fit me just about perfectly, but if that weren't the case I would not have been happy as there are no micro-adjustments and I'd have ended up wearing it too loose (this is how my Omega SMP is, and unfortunately it doesn't get as much wrist time as a result.) Fwiw I'm 7.25" wrist.

The thing I quite liked about the Outdoor Protect was the case design and dial. But my initial reaction to its bracelet (aside from the cosmetic issues discussed earlier in this thread) was that it was a bit "rattly" and quite thin, though I could easily have gotten used to this. I can appreciate that, presumably, the design of the Outdoor's bracelet is to allow flex/movement, though at the time I received it, my only other bracelets were an Omega SMP and a Raymond Weil Tango, and both of those are beefier with fitted end links and considerably less lateral "give" in how they flex, so that was my point of reference. I also found the Outdoor's clasp to be pretty generic (someone said "stamped" which makes sense, it isn't machined). I do think that the bracelet works design-wise (aesthetically) with the rest of the watch, though I would have to say that the bracelet is not as well executed as the watch case. I also think that if Archimede had made the lugs 20mm or 22mm (thus the bracelet wouldn't have differently sized end links) it would make a lot of people happy because it'd be very easy to swap out for other straps - as it stands now, you're limited to 18mm straps, assuming you don't want to do any cutting.

The bracelet issues that SimpleWatchMan writes about in the related thread appear very similar to what I experienced, and the corrosion on the bottom of the links I recall even looked a little like pitting as it had some texture to it. The solution Archimede/Ickler proposed to me (lemon cleanser) was the same as well.

HTH

Eric


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

ehansen said:


> No issues with my Damasko DA34, or its bracelet, thus far. The Damasko bracelet is very different than the Outdoor's. The Damasko bracelet is the same hardened steel and overall design as the watch case, it's fully machined with very tight tolerance and almost no play. End links are also machined and fitted (vs folded), links individually screwed in with two torx bolts per (vs pressure fit pins), the clasp mechanism is butterfly style with ceramic ball bearings. On the wrist, the bracelet is ultra secure and takes some effort to remove! With some removal of extra links, the Damasko bracelet happens to fit me just about perfectly, but if that weren't the case I would not have been happy as there are no micro-adjustments and I'd have ended up wearing it too loose (this is how my Omega SMP is, and unfortunately it doesn't get as much wrist time as a result.) Fwiw I'm 7.25" wrist.
> 
> The thing I quite liked about the Outdoor Protect was the case design and dial. But my initial reaction to its bracelet (aside from the cosmetic issues discussed earlier in this thread) was that it was a bit "rattly" and quite thin, though I could easily have gotten used to this. I can appreciate that, presumably, the design of the Outdoor's bracelet is to allow flex/movement, though at the time I received it, my only other bracelets were an Omega SMP and a Raymond Weil Tango, and both of those are beefier with fitted end links and considerably less lateral "give" in how they flex, so that was my point of reference. I also found the Outdoor's clasp to be pretty generic (someone said "stamped" which makes sense, it isn't machined). I do think that the bracelet works design-wise (aesthetically) with the rest of the watch, though I would have to say that the bracelet is not as well executed as the watch case. I also think that if Archimede had made the lugs 20mm or 22mm (thus the bracelet wouldn't have differently sized end links) it would make a lot of people happy because it'd be very easy to swap out for other straps - as it stands now, you're limited to 18mm straps, assuming you don't want to do any cutting.
> 
> ...


Eric, thank you for taking time to write more about your experience, which seems similar to mine.

Maybe I should have bite the bullet when given the chance to buy the DA36 with bracelet around end of last year. But I was low on budget, as I have to go for cataract ops on both of my eyes near the Christmas period.

Anyway, I still love the Archimede OutDoor Protect, despite of it's "inferior" bracelet. I will wear it for another 6 months to see whether my love will wear out by then.

If the love for OutDoor somehow lost by then, I will fall back on my 1st love, 904L sub, which is highly corrosion resistance but less scratch resistance than normal 316L watches.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

ehansen said:


> No issues with my Damasko DA34, or its bracelet, thus far. The Damasko bracelet is very different than the Outdoor's. The Damasko bracelet is the same hardened steel and overall design as the watch case, it's fully machined with very tight tolerance and almost no play. End links are also machined and fitted (vs folded), links individually screwed in with two torx bolts per (vs pressure fit pins), the clasp mechanism is butterfly style with ceramic ball bearings. On the wrist, the bracelet is ultra secure and takes some effort to remove! With some removal of extra links, the Damasko bracelet happens to fit me just about perfectly, but if that weren't the case I would not have been happy as there are no micro-adjustments and I'd have ended up wearing it too loose (this is how my Omega SMP is, and unfortunately it doesn't get as much wrist time as a result.) Fwiw I'm 7.25" wrist.
> 
> The thing I quite liked about the Outdoor Protect was the case design and dial. But my initial reaction to its bracelet (aside from the cosmetic issues discussed earlier in this thread) was that it was a bit "rattly" and quite thin, though I could easily have gotten used to this. I can appreciate that, presumably, the design of the Outdoor's bracelet is to allow flex/movement, though at the time I received it, my only other bracelets were an Omega SMP and a Raymond Weil Tango, and both of those are beefier with fitted end links and considerably less lateral "give" in how they flex, so that was my point of reference. I also found the Outdoor's clasp to be pretty generic (someone said "stamped" which makes sense, it isn't machined). I do think that the bracelet works design-wise (aesthetically) with the rest of the watch, though I would have to say that the bracelet is not as well executed as the watch case. I also think that if Archimede had made the lugs 20mm or 22mm (thus the bracelet wouldn't have differently sized end links) it would make a lot of people happy because it'd be very easy to swap out for other straps - as it stands now, you're limited to 18mm straps, assuming you don't want to do any cutting.
> 
> ...


Eric, based on your testimony of your DA34, I jumped at the chance of buying the DA37 (with hardened bracelet) just 2 days ago. I understand from my local AD that I am might be the first and only one wearing this model in Singapore now. As the Damasko cost 150% more than the Archimede, at least it is worthwhile that I have some form of bragging rights. 

Having compared the two side by side, I must say both matches their own overall value well. I am happy with both purchases.

Most likely, DA37 will represent the last mechanical watch that I will be owning.

I might post a thread reviewing the both together, about 6 months from now. I need some time to analysis their corrosion resistance characteristics.

Have a great day!


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

Here are the two rivalries. The Black vs the White camp!









Maybe a showdown, 6 months from now? ;-)


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## blowfish89 (Apr 15, 2014)

The Archimede has a better dial actually, but the bracelet looks like crap compared to the Damasko :-d


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

blowfish89 said:


> The Archimede has a better dial actually, but the bracelet looks like crap compared to the Damasko :-d


Agreed. But to be fair, I think the Archimede hardened bracelet served it's purpose well, at it's given price.


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

Congrats SimpleWatchMan ... a showdown, indeed! (But "last mechanical you'll be owning?" surely you gest!)



blowfish89 said:


> The Archimede has a better dial actually, but the bracelet looks like crap compared to the Damasko :-d


Ultimately they're different types of watches & dials. Field vs pilot. Well, both purport to be "tool" watches I suppose, though I think the Archimede attempts some more stylish elements whereas the Damasko is 100% about the build and technical features.

For me, I went with the DA34 (vs DA37) because I wanted something slightly dressier, and the numerals seemed just *too* toolish. (And again, I already have a DC66 which is mega-tool.)


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## blowfish89 (Apr 15, 2014)

SimpleWatchMan said:


> Agreed. But to be fair, I think the Archimede hardened bracelet served it's purpose well, at it's given price.


After reading this thread, I can hardly agree.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

blowfish89 said:


> After reading this thread, I can hardly agree.


I mean the bracelet served it's purpose for scratch resistance capability and maintain a more durable and lasting outer appearance. Everything else disregarded.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

ehansen said:


> For me, I went with the DA34 (vs DA37) because I wanted something slightly dressier, and the numerals seemed just *too* toolish. (And again, I already have a DC66 which is mega-tool.)


For me, the red second hand & red 12 o'clock indices make DA34 less dressier. But that is just my own opinion.

And yes, DC66 looks really a cool bad ass b-) , compared to the rest of Damasko's catalog.

Have a nice day!


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## Cesare Borgia (Feb 12, 2015)

I'd like to know about the OUTDOOR how the anti-magnetic field property is.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

4.800 as specified by DIN 8309. No inner cage though as being used by Damasko, Rolex. Case hardening does not imply higher anti-magnetic properties.

Example: Rolex









Example: Damasko


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

stuffler said:


> 4.800 as specified by DIN 8309. No inner cage though as being used by Damasko, Rolex. Case hardening does not imply higher anti-magnetic properties.
> 
> Example: Rolex
> 
> ...


Mike, somehow I'm unable to find out the info you stated "4,800 as specified by DIN 8309" in Archimede web site for the OutDoor Protect. Could you point me the link? Thanks.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

There is no link, all wrist watches have to meet the requirements of DIN 8309 = 4.800 and all do. It is a must so no need to mention.

Excurs:
The international standard ISO 764 Horology—Magnetic resistant watches defines the resistance of watches to magnetic fields. According to ISO 764 or its equivalent DIN 8309 (Deutsches Institut für Normung - German Institute for Standardization) a watch must resist exposition to a direct current magnetic field of 4 800 A/m. The watch must keep its accuracy to ± 30 seconds/day as measured before the test in order to be acknowledged as a magnetic resistant watch. Annex A of ISO 764 deals with watches designated as magnetic resistant with an additional indication of intensity of a magnetic field exceeding 4 800 A/m.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

stuffler said:


> There is no link, all wrist watches have to meet the requirements of DIN 8309 = 4.800 and all do. It is a must so no need to mention.
> 
> Excurs:
> The international standard ISO 764 Horology-Magnetic resistant watches defines the resistance of watches to magnetic fields. According to ISO 764 or its equivalent DIN 8309 (Deutsches Institut für Normung - German Institute for Standardization) a watch must resist exposition to a direct current magnetic field of 4 800 A/m. The watch must keep its accuracy to ± 30 seconds/day as measured before the test in order to be acknowledged as a magnetic resistant watch. Annex A of ISO 764 deals with watches designated as magnetic resistant with an additional indication of intensity of a magnetic field exceeding 4 800 A/m.


Thanks for the info.


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## rd0401 (Aug 30, 2012)

It may be worth emailing and asking them. I emailed them in May 2014 to determine what the anti-magnetic properties where and the response was it didn't have any anti-magnetic properties. Looking at Mikes response may be they meant it didn't have any additional protection over the DIN requirements. Things may have changed since May 2014 and now it has anti-magnetic protection. At the time it put me off buying the watch so would be interested to know.


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## blowfish89 (Apr 15, 2014)

Always wanted to ask this question - So is my Damasko equally antimagnetic as a Rolex Milgauss - since I think the standard is the same - 1000 Gauss roughly (or maybe I am mistaken) ?


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## ehansen (Sep 20, 2013)

blowfish89 said:


> Always wanted to ask this question - So is my Damasko equally antimagnetic as a Rolex Milgauss - since I think the standard is the same - 1000 Gauss roughly (or maybe I am mistaken) ?


Yes, 80,000 A/m is 1,000 gauss... All Damasko's feature this. Same as the Rolex Milgauss.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

ehansen said:


> Yes, 80,000 A/m is 1,000 gauss... All Damasko's feature this. Same as the Rolex Milgauss.


Correct 1000 Gauss or 100 mT = 80.000 A/m.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

Maybe it's time for me to consider getting a watch demagnetizer for my collection of mechanical watches. Any recommendations?


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

ELMA Antimag. Offrei offers some cheaper possibilities, of course.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

stuffler said:


> ELMA Antimag. Offrei offers some cheaper possibilities, of course.


Thanks for the recommendation. I will get one soon.

This watch hobby is getting to be a big black hole ...


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## Avo (Mar 1, 2010)

I have read on other forums some claims that Damasko steel is prone to magnetization, significantly more so than ordinary steel, and that hence a Damasko watch can be a source of magnetization for other watches (e.g., stored in the same watch case). 

Anyone have real info on this?


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Avo said:


> I have read on other forums some claims that Damasko steel is prone to magnetization, significantly more so than ordinary steel, and that hence a Damasko watch can be a source of magnetization for other watches (e.g., stored in the same watch case).
> 
> Anyone have real info on this?


In a nutshell: Another urban myth.

Long version:

There are different ways to harden different steels (martensitic and austenitic as well). Damasko for example does not use the 316L steel Sinn uses for their tegimented cases.

UTS for example works with 1.4305 steel. Rolex uses another one.

Here´s a quote taken from the interview WUS - Damasko in 2007 and still valid:

....."Well, first of all I would like to mention that my major goal always was and still is to construct a watch with superior technical characteristics which should represent a very high standard. The most ideas or let´s say projects have been developed at home, sitting in front of the TV. While my wife is watching television I always have some drafts or paperwork on my knees I am fiddling about with.
It needed more than 3 ½ years of extensive work (at least the last two years) to realize the DAMINOX process which allows to harden austenitic steel alloy (316L, 904) to between 1000 and 1800 HV, depending on the composition of the stainless steel. So far the "ice-hardening" process of martensitic steel (we do use 1.41.08) was only the first step into a new world of hardened steel. Of course I had to face some backstrokes over the time but finally I succeeded.
All that is based on long years of extensive research which lead to several dozens of patents and I always feel proud when a watch leaves our factory"......

Indeed martensitic steel has other anti-magnetic properties compared to 316l for example. However, the inner cage makes a Damasko as anti-magnetic as a Rolex Millgauss. Both, the Damasko and the Rolex MG, or any other 80.000 A/m watch are not sources of magnetization to other watches.

This and that and much more is already written on WUS, feel free to make use of our cross-forum-search-function.
On a side note: wasn't this thread about the Archimede Outdor Protect ?


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## Cesare Borgia (Feb 12, 2015)

The outdoor's case seems to have no magnetic resistance. 
However, if some alloys have withstanding a magnetic field used for the movement,"SW200, it might meet a requirement of ISO 764/DIN 8309.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Be assured, it does meet the requirement of ISO/DIN. A must is a must and no manufacturer I know is running the risk not to match the requirements.


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## JCBS (May 14, 2015)

SimpleWatchMan said:


> Maybe it's time for me to consider getting a watch demagnetizer for my collection of mechanical watches. Any recommendations?


The Omega Master Co-Axil is resistant to 15,000 Gauss, and you never need to have your wach demagnetizised :roll:

Kind regards,
Arno


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

JCBS said:


> The Omega Master Co-Axil is resistant to 15,000 Gauss, and you never need to have your wach demagnetizised :roll:
> 
> Kind regards,
> Arno


I know.

But I can buy at least 4 sets of OutDoor Protect + digital timegrapher + demagnetizer, for one Omega master co-axil.

Also, I do not have to work with any worries of substaining scratches, in my daily engineering work activities.

Moreover, I hate polished mid links, which are scratch magnets. Do note that I am a bracelet guy.

Lastly, 38 mm dia, 43 mm L2L, 10 mm thickness, really suit my 6" wrist size.


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## elliswyatt (Feb 12, 2015)

This watch just hit my radar screen as did this thread. I have a 556i that I wear to work and the Outdoor Protect would be a nice alternative, especially with its thin case to fit under dress shirt cuffs. Unlike the Sinn, I would be more comfortable wearing it during outdoor activities as well. At the current price, it's very tempting but with some of the issues raised in this thread, I'm anxious to hear any additional feedback from owners now that some time has gone by.


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## LH2 (Oct 25, 2009)

elliswyatt said:


> I'm anxious to hear any additional feedback from owners now that some time has gone by.


FWIW - I live in a fairly dry climate, but have had zero issues with the finish on my Outdoor Protect. This is still one of my favorite all around pieces - it's comfortable and legible. I like the interior AR coating, as it does a good job with no worries about scratching.

The shapely case seems durable, with no marks thus far. Like other Ickler products, it's a lot of watch for the money.


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## SimpleWatchMan (Apr 25, 2014)

elliswyatt said:


> This watch just hit my radar screen as did this thread. I have a 556i that I wear to work and the Outdoor Protect would be a nice alternative, especially with its thin case to fit under dress shirt cuffs. Unlike the Sinn, I would be more comfortable wearing it during outdoor activities as well. At the current price, it's very tempting but with some of the issues raised in this thread, I'm anxious to hear any additional feedback from owners now that some time has gone by.


Same as LH2 had said. My favorite all rounder too.

Only problem is the humid weather here, which tend to form rust a bit. No problem. Just baby it a bit using kitchen lemon cleaner every on and then, and all is fine. b-)


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