# Garmin Fenix - Will it be the Ambit Killer ???



## RobGrinter

Garmin announced the new Fenix about an hour ago.

Will it be a fair competitor to the Suunto Ambit ??

See product announcement our blog HERE


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## eeun

RobGrinter said:


> Garmin announced the new Fenix about an hour ago.
> 
> Will it be a fair competitor to the Suunto Ambit ??
> 
> See product announcement our blog HERE


Lets hope it will be tough competition and that Suunto will improve the Ambit accordingly. Looks pretty impressive at first glance and well priced.


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## ejunge

Yep saw it on endgadget
Garmin unveils Fenix, its first GPS watch for deep-pocketed outdoorsy types (hands-on) -- Engadget

Its also $100 cheaper than the Ambit, and adds Bluetooth. But other than that, I don't think it's going to hurt the hard core customer base. It offers no HR and while it's GPS function appears to be at least equal to the Ambit. Suunto has the ability to push firmware updates.

It is good looking though- it has a clean look - as opposed to a Casio type interface. This product obviously went into production AFTER the OR show, as it looks like Garmin saw the Ambit and said, "oh, we can do that too."


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## RobGrinter

I believe it will do heart rate. Refer here: That means you can also pair fēnix with several external devices, such as the Tempe™ external temperature sensor, Garmin heart rate monitor and speed/cadence sensor.

Also, don't believe they saw the Ambit and copied, they have been working on this for sometime. If anything Suunto saw Garmin and said, oh we can do a GPS watch for fitness/outdoor use, and made the Ambit !

The Fenix is scheduled to be released very late August, however we expect to have a pre-release model in our hands in about a fortnight or so. (As we did with the Ambit).


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## cobrapa

They say it has TracBack, which should provide that follow track ability people really want. It'll be interesting to see how their navigation looks. I'm looking forward to it.


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## RobGrinter

Yes this was a key point in discussions in our office here about the Track Back feature.

Garmin quote:  .....more importantly, guide you back out again.After all, what good does it do you to collect data, if you can't use it to find your way back to your computer to download it?

That certainly seems to be a swipe at the Ambit !

... and one of the main reasons why I titled this thread; Will it be the Ambit Killer ????


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## eeun

RobGrinter said:


> Yes this was a key point in discussions in our office here about the Track Back feature.
> 
> Garmin quote:  .....more importantly, guide you back out again.After all, what good does it do you to collect data, if you can't use it to find your way back to your computer to download it?
> 
> That certainly seems to be a swipe at the Ambit !
> 
> ... and one of the main reasons why I titled this thread; Will it be the Ambit Killer ????


I wonder how far Suunto can push the Ambit with firmware/software updates? It would be nice to have some of those features incorporated into future releases.


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## cobrapa

eeun said:


> I wonder how far Suunto can push the Ambit with firmware/software updates? It would be nice to have some of those features incorporated into future releases.


I think they can do this. The real question is how soon they update Ambit and how functional the Fenix will be at release time. Of course, we'll probably find that both have some strengths.

I like the screen shots with what looks like alti/baro graphs with some real rise and fall on the Fenix. I'd like to be able to scale the Ambit displays with a little higher vertical resolution.


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## paduncan

Interesting.

I am happier with the Garmin FR610's GPS performance than the Ambit - Possibly a map overlay issue, but I often see the Ambit track log going a bit off the trails I am riding. 

Also, the max waypoints of 100 on the Ambit is a very lackluster feature. Garmin claims up to 1,000 on the fenix. 100 waypoints is just not enough for accurate trail riding where there are lots of junctions, etc.

No mention of battery life on fenix...that is definitely a strong point of the Ambit. 

Love the track back map...


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## cobrapa

paduncan said:


> No mention of battery life on fenix...that is definitely a strong point of the Ambit.


I see this:
"Li-ion battery: Watch mode: 6-weeks / Sensor mode: 3-weeks / GPS mode: 16 to 70 hours depending on tracklog frequency"
from the initial post link. Sounds comparible, maybe with a couple more sample rates than Ambit, or just a slightly larger battery.


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## cobrapa

You know what it's missing? The antenna bump of the Ambit... interesting.


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## notwired

Also on gizmodo:
http://gizmodo.com/5924731/this-sensor+packed-gps-watch-masquerades-as-a-stylish-timepiece
And a snip: " first watch to include similar GPS navigation functionality as its handheld units" Wohoooo !

Me glad not spending money on ambit


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

I feel almost obligated to like the Ambit more - but that's all the more reason I think Suunto may be in trouble.

Much larger log of trackpoints, ability to follow routes, something of a map view, external temperature sensor if you are really crazy about that data, desktop software and mobile app (and connectivity there via Bluetooth), similar battery life, standard ANT... - it does sound like Garmin listened to the complaints people had about the Ambit and is looking to give Suunto a run for its money. (Except, planning and development phases are quite a bit longer than that... and Suunto's team is considerably smaller than Garmin's. Not a good excuse, though, when you are a customer anxiously awaiting some features...)


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## mesteviet

I'll be getting the Fenix the day it comes out. I simply hate movescount and can't wait to to return to garminconnect. On top of that, Ambit has done little to please the "runner only" group. I can't wait for the Fenix.


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## eeun

The biggest issue I have right now with the Ambit is no means of downloading without connecting to a pc. If the Fenix has solved that one I may jump right away unless Suunto offers a solution. Having been away for a long weekend I ended up having to use the Ambit and T6D on different days, not ideal but I had no means of saving the Ambit data for the whole weekend. I have several 3 and 4 day events planned in the next few months.


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## cobrapa

How do you save data off the T6D without a computer? Or is the memory deep enough you don't need to for what you are doing?


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## pjc3

I'm not fussed on the orange button. Looks a bit cheap.


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## ejunge

Holy Cow, this has a graphic interface for the GPS mode. It looks like a handheld GPS


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## pjc3

I think the answer to the question is "yes"


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## BD1

It looks like it is a bit smaller and does not sit as high on the wrist. I little less hockey puck looking vs Ambit.


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## Gyneron

pjc3 said:


> I think the answer to the question is "yes"


At first glance I have to agree.


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## gaijin

Looks like it will take "normal" watch straps - FINALLY! Allowing for NATO/Zulu on an outdoor watch - what a concept!

Although I can't find the exact wording to confirm this, but based on every Garmin watch to date, I'll wager the time is sync'd to the GPS signal. Not having the time sync'd was a HUGE miss for the Ambit.

The graphic representation of GPS tracking info (not on Ambit), 1,000 Waypoints (100 on Ambit), HR Monitor capable, Standard ANT interface, Garmin Connect as opposed to Movescount, Bluetooth for connectivity to my iPhone (none on Ambit), TrackBack (not on Ambit) ... it all looks very exciting.

I just put in my pre-order direct from Garmin. Yes, I know it's probably a little more expensive than waiting until the regular complement of re-sellers get their stocks, but I am anxious. ;-)


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## or_watching

Sure looks capable. 
After so long, now those of us inclined to want one have two ABCGHR's to choose from. 

Hopefully it's good in that it makes the Ambit better sooner, and provides an option for Garmin aficionados.


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## or_watching

ejunge said:


> Holy Cow, this has a graphic interface for the GPS mode. It looks like a handheld GPS


I read that the fenix is 70x70 pixels. 
Isnt the Ambit about 100px across? I need someone with younger eyes to check.

No matter what, it's still going to be a 1" nav screen, or less.


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## or_watching

pjc3 said:


> I'm not fussed on the orange button. Looks a bit cheap.


Garmin does market to hunters, and maybe this is a subtle hint to appeal to them.


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## pjc3

or_watching said:


> Garmin does market to hunters, and maybe this is a subtle hint to appeal to them.


Actually, the only thing the Ambit has got going for it is the aesthetics. Much prefer its look vis fenix


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## Jeff_C

This is EXCELLENT..  one of the reasons I have never liked GPS watches is because they DONT do this... the ability to display this view is VERY cool in my mind.



ejunge said:


> Holy Cow, this has a graphic interface for the GPS mode. It looks like a handheld GPS


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## mondoshawan

pjc3 said:


> Actually, the only thing the Ambit has got going for it is the aesthetics. Much prefer its look vis fenix


agreed. The Ambit is a nice piece of hardware and awesome looking, but the software engineers have a lot of work to do. I think the Ambit hits the market a little bit too early. But we will see how accurate the ABC functions of fenix are and with this product Garmin is really challenging Suunto now. Interesting in my eyes is the fact that both are exposing their watches as an outdoor watch and not as a sportwatch. Especially for sports in higher price segments Garmin has the 910. Suuntos t6 will be soon have EOL state i guess and i don't think the Ambit could fill the gap at this moment. They need an Ambit XT.


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## Lost-again

It has not hit the market yet and judging by the experience on the Ambit I suspect it will be many months if not a year before it is widely available. However, it clearly has some nice features to appeal to those of us who want a HRMABC that truely meets the outdoor requirements. If I was Suunto I would ignore this at your peril; they still have a chance to stay ahead, but the window is closing fast and they cannot hang around with the upgrades!


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## format

This one has breadcrumb tracks. You will be able to load any track and simply start to follow it. 

Ambit has no chances here. They don't have navigation (yet?) they don't have exercices (yet?). Garmin is ahead Suunto in these areas. They just have to stitch functions from some other units. Then they add Geocaching and Bluetooth, bum! 
Feature by feature only the accelerometer is missing.

There is no user manual and all the photos and videos have fake displays so there is nothing more to talk about until we start seeing the details in the user manual at least.

Ok I saw a video with the product boss, a german speaking guy, where the fenix is working. Not much info though. I saw a batt remaining %... good!


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## Lost-again

format said:


> This one has breadcrumb tracks. You will be able to load any track and simply start to follow it.
> 
> Ambit has no chances here. They don't have navigation (yet?) they don't have exercices (yet?). Garmin is ahead Suunto in these areas. They just have to stitch functions from some other units. Then they add Geocaching and Bluetooth, bum!
> Feature by feature only the accelerometer is missing.
> 
> There is no user manual and all the photos and videos have fake displays so there is nothing more to talk about until we start seeing the details in the user manual at least.


Agree but it sure is interesting! You have got to wounder what they mean by "auto calibrating barometer and compass" does this mean set and forget? Nice concept if it works, or misleading at its worst!


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## format

Auto calibrating barometer I can see the point. You can roughly calibrate an altimeter with a GPS altitude. It's better than guess. Then you go from there.
Compass... hummm. I think all the existing compasses have the 8 routine from time to time to calibrate. Maybe that's it. Is can use GPS direction of movement to avoid the 8 calibration.


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## mikeynd

I sure do like the looks,and put myself on the list.


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## RobGrinter

Lost-again said:


> It has not hit the market yet and judging by the experience on the Ambit I suspect it will be many months if not a year before it is widely available....


I would disagree, Garmin are suggesting Late August / Early September.


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## RobGrinter

pjc3 said:


> Actually, the only thing the Ambit has got going for it is the aesthetics. Much prefer its look vis fenix


Agree it has aesthetics. However it also has build quality, here we have not seen one returned through a fault or poor workmanship. (Yes this comment may create a flood of data disagreeing, but I am giving you MY experience in my own retail store.)

Not 1 Ambit out of many many dozens has ever come back !


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## SavageSS

I got an email from a shop taking deposits for end of August release. I'd be interested if the Garmin has mgrs and mils for the compass, which the Ambit has.


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## or_watching

OMG. Did you see what's included "In the Box"???

*What's in the Box:*


fēnix
USB cable
AC adapter with plug

An AC adapter plug? How did they do it? Impossible to imagine how they could possibly afford it, if you believe the folks who rationalized all the reasons why the Ambit didn't have one.
LOL.

Next thing you know someone will say it holds 50 routes and 1000 waypoints, and works with offline mapping/routing software like BaseCamp.


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## gaijin

or_watching said:


> Next thing you know someone will say it holds 50 routes and 1000 waypoints, and works with offline mapping/routing software like BaseCamp.


I think you know already that's the case ;-) , but in addition to that the Tracklog will hold 10,000 points and 100 saved tracks.

But what about regular watch features? How about not just a second World Time display, but one that shows Home Time and FOUR World Times - at the same time:










I'm liking this more and more. ;-)


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## format

Bluetooth could be a great addition. What would be possible to get out of it or into it? An android APP to unload/load tracks? This is the most intriguing feature. So many potential.... better not start to dream with possibilities. Garmin doesn't develop their products after release. It does what it does. They prefer to develop new models instead.So in a moth or so we will knowNo touch interface. Chuif! Chuif! That would be awesome. Too bad.Exercises, workouts capabilities, etc. ? No word on that. But it's another thing that it's fully developed in other models. It's just glue the thing togheter. If they want to...Now it's clear to me why Garmin never allowed the 610 to follow tracks... Bastards!


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## format

Furthermore I think Garmin has earned the right to a subforum in the ABC section


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## RobGrinter

format said:


> Furthermore I think Garmin has earned the right to a subforum in the ABC section


I agree |>


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## RobGrinter

gaijin said:


> ....... based on every Garmin watch to date, I'll wager the time is sync'd to the GPS signal. Not having the time sync'd was a HUGE miss for the Ambit. ;-)


Agree,

EVERY Garmin watch syncs time from GPS. I could not imagine this will change suddenly for the Fenix.


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## santoshrane

Battery in % value

Sun n moon rise data.

Wireless transfer - Can't do in Ambit 
(On a trip ill surely carry a phone n not a laptop, xfer of data would be great to free memory + load to www)

Basic watch functions

I bought the ambit, but now I'm drooling at this.

Ambit should atleast be a basic watch...I know someone said on the forum Casio makes good watch n little of ABC. And suunto makes Good ABC n little of watch..I guess Garmin has proved that all can be in one wrist. 

Graphic image of a route not a big deal for me. Novelty I say!

Ambit can use their accelerometer in calculation if swimming strokes if possible. 

Moves count to be made offline

Ambit to tell me the approx time n intensity to go for target PTE. 

If I get even these basics right in ambit...I'd stay


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## jimmijames73

I hope the annoucement of the Fēnix pushes Suunto to improve the navigation capabilities of the Ambit in the 2.0 firmware update. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with my Ambit, but the Fēnix also looks very tempting. I promised myself I would not buy another gps watch for at least another 6 months. *sigh*


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## suecoloco

I wonder if they have solved the altimeter issue that they have with the 910 (it is also supposed to auto calibrate but works like crap), that was the main reason for choosing Ambit instead because the 910 was/is totally unreliable when it comes to elevation. As for functions Ambit is way behind and will probably be so even after the 2.0 firmware that the will release october-november.


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## uabWatch

This thing looks very cool. Really like that its got a fairly normal looking watch body (no gps bulge). Agree with an earlier poster re: the orange button- would rather it was black or perhaps grey - but def not a deal killer for me.


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## cobrapa

suecoloco said:


> I wonder if they have solved the altimeter issue that they have with the 910 (it is also supposed to auto calibrate but works like crap), that was the main reason for choosing Ambit instead because the 910 was/is totally unreliable when it comes to elevation. As for functions Ambit is way behind and will probably be so even after the 2.0 firmware that the will release october-november.


Can the auto feature for alti calibration be turned off on the 910? That would be a pain if it was on all the time. Can you manually reference it even if it auto cals?


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## martowl

cobrapa said:


> Can the auto feature for alti calibration be turned off on the 910? That would be a pain if it was on all the time. Can you manually reference it even if it auto cals?


I had a 910XT for a couple of weeks and the atimiter was and still is a complete disaster! One look through th Garmin Forums will show you it does not work well. You cannot adjust the altimiter manually or set it manually. You have to set a known GPS location with an altitude and once at that location the unit is supposed to set the altitude. It rarely works and I found the altimiter to be wildly off most of the time. I returned mine as soon as the Ambit was announced. If the Fenix uses the same settings I would not purchase one. If the altitude/pressure can be input manually it should not be a problem.

A second issue for me with Garmin is durability. I have had units in the past and have had issues with durability. The Suunto is superior in this regard. I will stick with the Ambit for now and hope that the new firmware will give us route tracking, which should be implemented as track points not waypoints.

Another reason I am happy with Suunto is their support, so consider the whole package. Garmin has not acknowledged the altimeter issue with the 910 and did not fix it with their last update. If anything, it appears to have made the issue worse. Suunto posted in a forum discussing screen issues on some Ambits here and I am impressed with their willingness to acknowledge and inform us of this. Second, they are soliciting features for the next update from the users! That is the way it should be, I don't think you will find Garmin doing this either. So look before you leap to ensure the grass is greener and no droughts are on the horizon.


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## Mystro

I wonder where it is made and how good the build quality is???? One thing for sure is this will push Suunto for quicker firmware updates and expand its features. "Suunto killer"? No but it will encourage competition between the two companies and we consumers will benefit. Garmin knows GPS but Suunto knows outdoor watches and especially ABC watches so Suuntos sensors and reliability will be superior.


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## or_watching

Mystro said:


> I wonder where it is made and how good the build quality is????


Pictures at Engadget show made in Taiwan on the back.


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## Mystro

Meh,..thats pretty much what I thought. Then the quality will be nowhere near as good as the Suunto Ambit..
Its one thing to have a GPS on your dashboard but another on your wrist beating it against a tree as you climb a hill.


or_watching said:


> Pictures at Engadget show made in Taiwan on the back.


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## or_watching

gaijin said:


> I think you know already that's the case ;-) , but in addition to that the Tracklog will hold 10,000 points and 100 saved tracks.


Yes. tongue in cheek!
Actually, I wonder if 10k track points is TOTAL or for each of the 100 saved tracks. Seems kind of wimpy if that's the total total. It's only 2.7hr at 1/sec. Some folks won't like that. Hikers using lower rates will still be fine.

And I've found something I love to hate. Those crazy Garmin basemaps. Nifty that they've included them, but I hate the tease, and makes me laugh to see a map that tells me, "Yep, I'm in the state of Illinois, somewhere". 









And I'm a fan of vibration alerts.


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## cobrapa

I just think it's cool it has breadcrumb traces for gps. I don't really need maps on that small a device, but a little bit of the route and/or track would be nice to see.


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## mesteviet

RobGrinter said:


> Garmin announced the new Fenix about an hour ago.
> 
> Will it be a fair competitor to the Suunto Ambit ??
> 
> See product announcement our blog HERE


In my experience...yes...it killed the Ambit. Here are a few of the reasons that I am going back to Garmin.

- The primary reason that I am going back to Garmin is for Garmin Connect (I hate Movescount. Having my public page display Metric #'s is irritating since I share my info with friends and family. I can change my private view to Imperial but it doesn't change the public view for someone without a Movescount profile. Also, there are a number of graphs/charts that display MPH instead of pace. Movescount sucks for runners.)
- Ambit doesn't display hundredths of a mile once you've reached 10 miles...Garmin does
- Ambit can't keep the backlight lit permanently...Garmin does
- Garmin has vibration alerts. Audio alerts are worthless since I run listening to music/audiobooks.
- Ambit start/stop button adds a lap every time even if I'm only pausing it to walk around a snake or use the bathroom...Garmin doesn't do this
- I prefer the Ant stick over connecting to the computer with a cable
- It may be marketing only but the Fenix appears to have a better battery life
- Garmin distance measurements are typically longer than the Ambit's distance measurements. The Ambit may be more accurate but mentally I like Garmin's better!
- I've had no issues with Garmin quality having owned every model they've ever made since the 201...I guess I'm just lucky. I only use my watch while running/mtn biking/hiking.
- I switched to Ambit primarily for the Altimeter but Movescount is so horrible that I'll take my chances with the Fenix's accuracy.
- I may be in the minority but I actually prefer the look of the Fenix over the Ambit

I realize that most of these issues can be fixed with a new firmware update but I'd rather jump ship now and go back to what I know works. The Fenix with HRM will probably cost about $450 so it'll actually save me about $100 once I return the Ambit to REI.

Ambit...it was nice knowing ya.


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## JoggWithoutDog

In Germany the Suunto Ambit costs 429 Euros in comparison to the Garmin Fenix (about 399 Euros) - just 30 Euros more ... but:
the Ambit Display contrast seem much more better ... even the quality of the whole hardware...
So, if Suunto will manage the "worm-navigation" till October this year (and maybe the possibility that "lap-points" are saved as POIs 01, 02 ... which can renamed after the running etc.) I really see no reason to switch over to the Fenix.
The whole thing reminds me on Ballmers new Windows-Pad ... year(s) later but not even better
Well done Suunto!
JoggWithoutDog


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## jimmijames73

mesteviet said:


> The primary reason is that I am going back to Garmin is for Garmin Connect


I also prefer Garmin Connect over Movescount, both on the web interface and the mobile app. I like to review my exercises on my iPhone, but the Movescount app only seems to provide average speed, total distance and the pace for each lap. For some reason it does not show my track or any graphs for the moves made using my Ambit (not sure if it is user error or the limitation of the app?). The Garmin Fit app shows my track as well as graphs for pace, elevation, heart rate and cadence. I also find the web interface of Movescount very user unfriendly. I may be tempted to go back to Garmin if the Movescount web interface and app are not improved.


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## format

JoggWithoutDog said:


> In Germany the Suunto Ambit costs 429 Euros in comparison to the Garmin Fenix (about 399 Euros) - just 30 Euros more ... but:
> the Ambit Display contrast seem much more better ... even the quality of the whole hardware...
> So, if Suunto will manage the "worm-navigation" till October this year (and maybe the possibility that "lap-points" are saved as POIs 01, 02 ... which can renamed after the running etc.) I really see no reason to switch over to the Fenix.
> The whole thing reminds me on Ballmers new Windows-Pad ... year(s) later but not even better
> Well done Suunto!
> JoggWithoutDog


I didn't see the Fenix display yet but if it's the same quality the Garmin 610... Sorry. Not even close. The 610 display is the best LCD I have ever see. The Ambit LCD is a palid standard display. Just look at these photos here
Runbook de um gajo que mudou de vida: Suunto Ambit versus Garmin 610...

Regarding the Suunto navigation, I'm not pessimist but think with me: In 2 months they produced the "pseudo" navigation in 1.5, just a way of automate the WP's loading. What do you think they can produce in 2 more months, that include a summer holiday period? 
A navigatrion like Garmin has to be developed from scratch (since they have zero nav), tested, improved, etc. etc. Maybe they are developing if from the begining in a paralel development cycle and have it ready in October... then again maybe not.
Just don't expect much from a small team they appear to have.

The back to start feature that appeared in 1.5 freaked me out... What is that? This kind of thing doens't give much confidance to anybody. Why they did that? Not a good indicator of things to come.


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## Clevor

The Fenix ads don't mention anything about an accelerometer, not that Suunto has exploited this feature in the Ambit as of yet. 

As for being made in Taiwan, no surprise there. Garmin, as well as most U.S. companies, have gone that route a long time ago.

When it comes to GPS, hey, you can't beat Garmin so no surprise there. But there's no reason the Ambit won't be capable of those GPS maps eventually. What Suunto needs to do is make an offer to a top Garmin software engineer that he can't refuse ;-).


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## Jim1348

*Garmin Fenix*

This will be interesting to see when it is finally available. I suppose the street price might be closer to $300.


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## or_watching

format said:


> I didn't see the Fenix display yet but if it's the same quality the Garmin 610...


the fenix has a 70x70 pixel display. 
The 610 has a 128x128 pixel display. That's 2.5x the pixels vs the fenix.

So, not the same actual display or resolution. As for other aspects of quality and viewing, I guess we each need to judge when it comes out.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

format said:


> I didn't see the Fenix display yet but if it's the same quality the Garmin 610... Sorry. Not even close. The 610 display is the best LCD I have ever see. The Ambit LCD is a palid standard display.
> 
> The back to start feature that appeared in 1.5 freaked me out... What is that? This kind of thing doens't give much confidance to anybody. Why they did that? Not a good indicator of things to come.


If that is a palid display I see there on my wrist, able to use every single pixel that is visible, not just the ones in a central rectangular area, with the ability to swap between positive and negative display, with a customizable backlight as well-working as that... I guess you know where I'm going with this.

I really want to go to the usual "expectations/needs differ", though, given the comment on the "back to start" feature: I know that from the X9i, and I'm happy to have it back. Went somewhere on my bike, started navigation and went running, and had an easy way of finding my bike again when I was getting close to having finished a loop, but not entirely sure where I was by then. Track back along the exact route taken before wouldn't be helpful when going in a loop anyways.

Same with the maps and such. I can see the appeal, I probably would have advised Suunto to include such a feature - but it's a total gimmick to appeal to the less-than-serious/skilled. I could ask, and I'm sure the people at Suunto will be laughing about 70x70 pixel map displays...

Trackpoints, desktop software, and mobile app... those entice me, too (as mentioned before). In that regard I concur that the Ambit doesn't look good. Turn on Bluetooth, though, and battery life will go down considerably (which is a reason, for all I know, why the Ambit didn't go that way). I'll also be curious to see how long wireless data transfer will take. From what I understand, Suunto didn't want to use that because it would take longer and be more unstable than the transfer by cable; I'm not quite sure about that, though.

I just did an ultramarathon in the mountains, it didn't convince me of the Ambit's navigation, but was even less convincing that a track/route navigation by breadcrumbs would be any better. I'll be setting waypoints only for the control stations, next time, and trust the trail markings and my (mental or paper) map...
Add in training effect and recovery time displays, all the other data I can get for my running, and the fenix only gives a jab of envy at first glance, but doesn't yet convince me of its worth as the tool I want and need as a (well, wannabe) mountain/ultra runner. Garmin would be welcome to try and convince me otherwise, but I don't expect they'd bother with a small and slow figure like me...


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## JoggWithoutDog

or_watching said:


> the fenix has a 70x70 pixel display.
> The 610 has a 128x128 pixel display. That's 2.5x the pixels vs the fenix.
> 
> So, not the same actual display or resolution. As for other aspects of quality and viewing, I guess we each need to judge when it comes out.


...and if the fenix will have the display of the FR610 ... - but the picture (I believe I've seen it on the Garmin side but I'm not 100% sure...) showed blue instead of darkgrey or black figure segments ...
Just the navigation and the POIs ... a lot of homework till October for Suunto - I hope it will be a successfully answering, too ;-)
JoggWithoutDog
Nice day!


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## Hrti

Looks like Garmin have taken a lot of design clues from Suunto with the Fenix. Let's hope the build quality is on par. I've had the forerunner 110, 610 and 910XT before my Ambit, and none even come close regarding build quality and craftsmanship. Also the Garmin forums are flooding with both HW and SW faults that gets overlooked by the Garmin team.

Overall what won me over with Suunto is the customer support, design/build quality and continuos development post release. If Garmin can catch up on this I might reconsider, but not at this point. Still hoping for breadcrumb navigation, battery % and an offline Movescount though


----------



## format

I didn't say the Ambirt display is bad. I said is pallid... compared with the 610. Judge by yourself. I compared both. 

Regading the back to start feature, of course it's useful sometimes to find the original starting point without going all the way back. My main concern is because that feature was already there since day1. No need for a menu entry, big announcement, etc. etc. Pointing to WP1 is a feeble back to start feature announced as a firmware update.... 

Regarding BT and the App to load/unload tracks to your phone on the go...Who cares about battery with that functionality by hand. Just don't use it, but an emergency USB charger cost 2€ in ebay in case you need. I prefer to have the APP 
Also BT is not a battery hog if you use it for a few minutes to connect the watch to your phone. Hardly.

Regarding ANT+ wireless transfer compared with the Ambit cable I don't have good news for you. The wireless transfer is faster. The Ambit seems to always take the same time to unload the tracks, if I train 5 minutes or 1 hour. The wireless ANT+ wireless sync can fail sometimes depending on the distance the watch is from the antena but it auto restarts. Very happy with it overall.

The only doubts I have right now is about exercise/workout features in the Fenix. The Fenix has so many features that those are not mentioned. We need to wait for the user manual to see how deep Garmin went in that aspect.


----------



## format

I agree there are a lot of problems in the Garmin forums. I have my quote of those also. But where are the Suunto forums for us to compare?
It's not easy to find world size brands with open forums... and note that people just go to the forums when they're angry with the product. Otherwise they're out there using it. So it's not a lot of customers with problems compared with the joyful ones 

The forum is one of the great Garmin attitude.

Regarding further development in their products, forget it. It's not in their hearts. They prefer to launch new products. You hardly see more than fixes and small improvements after a product is released. Never buy a Garmin thinking they will release feature A or B afterwards. They won't


----------



## antjoh

If you look at the specs at Garmins site it says that the interface is usb, so wouldn't that mean that there will be no use of an ant-stick? Great news if that is the case I think. Bluetooth and usb will make the watch a true cross platform device.

Has anyone seen info about the lug width and lug-to-lug distance by the way?


----------



## PaulR7

antjoh said:


> If you look at the specs at Garmins site it says that the interface is usb, so wouldn't that mean that there will be no use of an ant-stick?


From Garmin UK website:
What's in the Box:

fēnix
USB cable
AC adapter with plug
Manual
Rear view of Fenix:


----------



## format

Yes but it has ANT+ also. BT and ANT+ a true jack of all trades. Remains to see what can be done with any of these connections. Cable, USB and ANT+


----------



## martowl

format said:


> Yes but it has ANT+ also. BT and ANT+ a true jack of all trades. Remains to see what can be done with any of these connections. Cable, USB and ANT+


If the Fenix could transfer by Ant+ , the specs and box would include the Ant stick. They include this and spec it for every watch that is Ant+ so I doubt very much that the Fenix will Ant+ wirelessly transfer.


----------



## PaulR7

format said:


> Yes but it has ANT+ also. BT and ANT+ a true jack of all trades. Remains to see what can be done with any of these connections. Cable, USB and ANT+


My money is on:
USB Cable: Charging & data transfer with Garmin Connect
Bluetooth: Device to Device (Fenix to Fenix, Fenix to Garmin handheld etc) sharing of tracks, waypoints, geocache
ANT+: HR belt, sensors (footpod, Cadence, Tempe)

And you know what they say about jack of all trades .... master of none!!!


----------



## format

Yep that's right but remember the others don't have any other option to communicate. This comes with an USB cable but you can also use BT... It doesn't come with a BT dongle. It has Ant+ but there is no model with HRM chest belt. You have to buy one. Who knows what those german folks imagined. It's a mix bag of things they already have in various models. Not very difficult to assemble the software in the same platform.


----------



## format

PaulR7 said:


> My money is on:
> USB Cable: Charging & data transfer with Garmin Connect
> Bluetooth: Device to Device (Fenix to Fenix, Fenix to Garmin handheld etc)
> ANT+: HR belt, cadence sensor, footpod
> 
> And you know what they say about jack of all trades .... master of none!!!


You're probably right. It's the safe bet 

Don't forget BT for Fenix to Phone App!!! Innovation here!!! (clap clap clap)

Oh! Wait. The 4** series does device to device by ANT+


----------



## or_watching

PaulR7 said:


> My money is on:
> USB Cable: Charging & data transfer with Garmin Connect
> Bluetooth: Device to Device (Fenix to Fenix, Fenix to Garmin handheld etc) sharing of tracks, waypoints, geocache
> ANT+: HR belt, sensors (footpod, Cadence, Tempe)


My money is on your money. 
The most interesting part of BT is the smartphone connection opportunity with the upcoming BaseCamp app.

That pkg is very interesting.


----------



## antjoh

or_watching said:


> The most interesting part of BT is the smartphone connection opportunity with the upcoming BaseCamp app.


I asked Suunto on twitter a while ago about a similar setup for the Ambit.



> My question:
> Any plans of making moveslink2 for Android or iOS? Would be awesome to sync the Ambit with your pad/phone while on the move.
> 
> Suuntos answer:
> It's not in our plans at the moment, but thanks for the feedback. We'll add it to the wishlist.


If Garmin manages to pull this off in a good way it will definately be a huge benefit in favor of the Fenix. At least for me.


----------



## Statius

Wow! This looks really great! I've been super happy with my Core, and the Ambit didn't really push me to want it. But this Garmin looks pretty awesome, especially for a runner and hiker. My GPS Timex Trail Runner is getting long in the tooth; this just may be its replacement.


----------



## format

antjoh said:


> I asked Suunto on twitter a while ago about a similar setup for the Ambit.


But how do you get things out of the Ambit and into the phone? No way.


----------



## eeun

I've raised this with Suunto as well as I am thinking of designing an app for iOS. Would there be many takers and what would it be worth? There is some interest from them.


----------



## antjoh

format said:


> But how do you get things out of the Ambit and into the phone? No way.


There is most certainly a way if you have a device (phone or tablet) that have support for usb host. Then "all you have to do" is to code movelinks2 for that platform.


----------



## format

Usb host is almost unavailable even today and gives most troubles even to connect a simple pen or hdd. There are ant+ adapters for iphone but Ambit is not Ant+ (yet? ever?) and acquiring the adapter will difficult the adoption of that solution also. Not easy... Don't know if exists sucha an adapter for android the dominant platform (if not now, in a few days


----------



## format

Usb host is almost unavailable even today and gives most troubles even to connect a simple pen or hdd. There are ant+ adapters for iphone but Ambit is not Ant+ (yet? ever?) and acquiring the adapter will difficult the adoption of that solution also. Not easy... Don't know if exists sucha an adapter for android the dominant platform (if not now, in a few days


----------



## motherblessing

I'm way too busy for reverse engineer the moveslink app, but in theory it is feasable.Should it be possible to have the specs for downloading the XML file from the watch and the upload protocol to movescount, I can code an iPhone/iPad app myself.Ideally it would connect to the iDevice in a similar fashion as adapters for digital cameras. 

The application on the iDevice should be able to handle the data and do some data chart/analysis magic. 
When an uplink connection is avaible it should be able to upload data to movescount.
Nice to have: the possibility to change device setup (screens, mode, etcc..) from the app itself, but then even more specs are necessary.I believe there would be as many buyers as Ambit+i(something) owners. 
The business case is quite simple.

Question: how many of you would be interested in such and app and how much would you be willing to pay for it?


----------



## eeun

motherblessing said:


> I'm way too busy for reverse engineer the moveslink app, but in theory it is feasable.Should it be possible to have the specs for downloading the XML file from the watch and the upload protocol to movescount, I can code an iPhone/iPad app myself.Ideally it would connect to the iDevice in a similar fashion as adapters for digital cameras.
> 
> The application on the iDevice should be able to handle the data and do some data chart/analysis magic.
> When an uplink connection is avaible it should be able to upload data to movescount.
> Nice to have: the possibility to change device setup (screens, mode, etcc..) from the app itself, but then even more specs are necessary.I believe there would be as many buyers as Ambit+i(something) owners.
> The business case is quite simple.
> 
> Question: how many of you would be interested in such and app and how much would you be willing to pay for it?


I was also looking at this option but IMO all that's needed is a means of saving the files and then an ability to upload to somewhere to get it into movescount. Just like moveslink does now on pc or in my case mac. I'd probably pay a tenner if it worked well and was stable - unlike of course moveslink which crashes my mac usb connected devices!!


----------



## PaulR7

motherblessing said:


> Question: how many of you would be interested in such and app and how much would you be willing to pay for it?


You know how much work has to go into it, what do you think would be a fair price for your efforts? Given that the camera adaptor kit is £25 from apple store.
Its certainly something I would be interested in, as I find the need to carry around laptop & have internet access just to upload my data rather limiting. Just the ability to store the data until I get back to humanity would suffice, then upload to moves count once internet is available.


----------



## gaijin

Latest from Garmin FYI:

Thankyou for your purchase of the Garmin fēnix. Please be aware that Garmin isstill awaiting Federal Communications Commission (FCC) authorization of thisdevice.

Upon receipt of FCC authorization, the device will be available for sale andshipment. You will not be charged until the product is shipped toyou. Until then, we will hold your request and honor it upon receipt ofFCC approval, unless you instruct us that you are no longer interested in pursuingyour order. 
Sincerely, 
Garmin International,Inc.

All good things come to he who waits ...

;-)


----------



## or_watching

Definitely looking fwd to some reviews. In the ABC forum, I suppose.


----------



## Faxwitz

motherblessing said:


> I'm way too busy for reverse engineer the moveslink app, but in theory it is feasable.Should it be possible to have the specs for downloading the XML file from the watch and the upload protocol to movescount, I can code an iPhone/iPad app myself.Ideally it would connect to the iDevice in a similar fashion as adapters for digital cameras.
> 
> The application on the iDevice should be able to handle the data and do some data chart/analysis magic.
> When an uplink connection is avaible it should be able to upload data to movescount.
> Nice to have: the possibility to change device setup (screens, mode, etcc..) from the app itself, but then even more specs are necessary.I believe there would be as many buyers as Ambit+i(something) owners.
> The business case is quite simple.
> 
> Question: how many of you would be interested in such and app and how much would you be willing to pay for it?


Getting such app would be great. I would pay up to 10 €. Any plans to get it done ?


----------



## kirbysdl

I'm waiting for them to post a manual, and hopefully there are some nice reviews with plenty of screenshots/videos soon. =)


----------



## motherblessing

Faxwitz said:


> Getting such app would be great. I would pay up to 10 €. Any plans to get it done ?


I think that with all the specs from suunto it could take a couple of weeks to have a beta version suitable for some field testing.... 
The iDevice adapter could be the same as the downlink gizmo to connect a camera.The problem is how to get the specs for how to download data from the watch and how to uplad data to Movescount. 
I don't think the XML with the logs is directly produced by the watch, most likely is the Moveslink app performing the magic behind it.

The charting/analysis part of it is the less complicated once the data from the watch are transformed into an XML.


----------



## Lost-again

+1 I would pay for an app that used the iPad camera adapter to connect to the watch. I have requested it from Suunto but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## martowl

I would pay for this app as well. I think $15 or $20 US is reasonable.


----------



## ifarlow

Add me to the list of those willing to pay. My offer: $10. However, depending on just how well it is written, how feature-packed it is, etc. I would gladly spend more. Heck, I have spent far more than that for OmniFocus on my iPhone and iPad.


----------



## pjc3

Offer me a gadget and I will buy it!


----------



## srwilson

pjc3 said:


> Offer me a gadget and I will buy it!


Yeah, me too...


----------



## Faxwitz

motherblessing said:


> I think that with all the specs from suunto it could take a couple of weeks to have a beta version suitable for some field testing....
> The iDevice adapter could be the same as the downlink gizmo to connect a camera.The problem is how to get the specs for how to download data from the watch and how to uplad data to Movescount.
> I don't think the XML with the logs is directly produced by the watch, most likely is the Moveslink app performing the magic behind it.
> 
> The charting/analysis part of it is the less complicated once the data from the watch are transformed into an XML.


I raised a question with Suunto Helpdesk how willing they would be to disclose the upload specs. Let's see....


----------



## Geof3

Hmm... Looks like and orange black core... Not a bad thing. I like it. Garmin does do a hell of a job on its GPS units, there is something to be said for specializing...


----------



## or_watching

Hi.
DC Rainmaker has a Fenix-Ambit comparison posted. It includes a side-side comparison on an 8mile hike.
DC Rainmaker: A weekend in Seattle playing with the Garmin Fenix and other gadgets

Here's the fenix track at GC. It shows best if you switch to Google and use Terrain.
Fenix - Mt. Si Hike by dcrainmaker at Garmin Connect - Details

A few tidbits:
Ascent: Difference between the two watches of 143ft on a climb of ~3000 ft.
Distance
. Ambit: 6.66 in-watch. 
. Fenix: 8.36 in-watch, 7.44 at Garmin Connect
. Trail Markers: 8 miles

No word on the recording intervals used.
He mentions have some recommendation for Garmin on features that would improve the utility/use of the fenix for Runners.


----------



## or_watching

Thanks to DCRainmaker for sharing links to his tracks.

Here are the two track of the Ambit vs the Fenix from his hike up Mt. Si.
You can see the trail in White on Google Terrain.
The Ambit seems to follow the trail much better than the Fenix, especially in the lower sections of the trail.

So the raw track data from the Ambit is better vs the pre-release Fenix.
But then we're back to those pesky in-watch distance algorithms...

Red = Fenix (pre-release)















Blue = Ambit


----------



## or_watching

FCC has posted it's certification of the fenix, under FCC ID: IPH-O2AWGD

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...e=N&application_id=799947&fcc_id='IPH-O2AWGD'

Has internal and external pictures and a draft copy of the User Manual.

Since the fenix doesn't have an obvious antenna "area" or "face" I've been wondering how it's implemented.
Does anyone know if it's in the upper part of this picture? (this looks like it is on vertical side of the watch -- i.e. facing up when your hand is perpendicular to the ground). Or maybe that the transmitting antenna..









I don't believe that the mere listing of this information indicates FCC approval yet. Perhaps someone knows for sure.


----------



## or_watching

feeding the fenix information drip.... 2 cents after reading the Quick Start Manual (it's not the full User Manual)

Likes:

Press and Hold one button to mark a waypoint
Press and Hold one button to bring up status screen (GPS signal, battery %, time of day)
(May this one is just me!) From the pictures: In the 3-field views the upper and lower fields are a tad bigger vs Ambit - I'm not old old but I don't want to run or hike with my fine-print reading glasses and the Ambit's fields are just *that much* too small when I'm out around dawn. (I felt the Timex Run Trainer was even harder to read.
The breadcrumb TracBack (vs Ambit point to start)

Dislikes:

Still don't like the orange button
From the pictures: again the bloody font size, in some views the small font looks even smaller than the Ambit.


----------



## ambit_cracker

or_watching said:


> Since the fenix doesn't have an obvious antenna "area" or "face" I've been wondering how it's implemented.
> Does anyone know if it's in the upper part of this picture? (this looks like it is on vertical side of the watch -- i.e. facing up when your hand is perpendicular to the ground). Or maybe that the transmitting antenna..


I hope the GPS antenna has a wider area than that, if not, I don't think it would have good signal reception.
In one of the report, they say:
"Two samples were supplied for testing, one production design and the other modified for testing purposes replacing integral antenna with RF connection port."


----------



## primus

Garmin Fenix GPS wrist watch packs in the sensors | wirefresh






Watch functions: time, date, alarm, *timer, chronograph*, *chimes* and *vibration* Fitness functions include: user profiles for running and cycling, Auto Pause®, Auto Lap®, alerts, customizable data fields such as heart rate, distance, pace, calories, laps and more

Looks good!


----------



## or_watching

ambit_cracker said:


> I hope the GPS antenna has a wider area than that, if not, I don't think it would have good signal reception.
> In one of the report, they say:
> "Two samples were supplied for testing, one production design and the other modified for testing purposes replacing integral antenna with RF connection port."


Yeah, exactly... that's why I'm hoping an antenna/RF expert can chime in...


----------



## Mystro

Why is Garmin showing this watch to Castro's brothers best cigar roller????


primus said:


> Garmin Fenix: GPS-Uhr für Outdoorer - YouTube


----------



## or_watching

best cigar roller. LOL. 

I can think of one use that some Cubans would have for a 50hr Navigation watch.


----------



## John Kay

bump


----------



## pjc3

Is this a firesale before the fenix hits the market and destroys all further sales? Has the Ambit stopped selling already as people wait for the fenix?


----------



## cobrapa

Sweet discounts, maybe it's time to pick up a silver one! |> Wonder if any USA dealers have those deals.


----------



## gaijin

I'm looking forward to wearing my Fenix on a 24mm Zulu and watching the continuously displayed seconds move around the dial when in watch mode. What a concept - a GPS *watch* with standard 24mm lugs so any strap can be used and a time display that continuously displays Day, Date, Hour, Minute and Seconds!

Glad I passed on the Ambit. ;-)


----------



## cobrapa

So you're upset that day of the week and seconds aren't on the same screen? 'cuz it has all of that...


----------



## gaijin

cobrapa said:


> So you're upset that day of the week and seconds aren't on the same screen? 'cuz it has all of that...


Not upset. If we approach the Ambit and the Fenix from the premise that it will be used as a daily wearer watch, then what is important *to me* in a digital watch? I want to see, at a glance, Day, Date, Hour Minute and Seconds. I get that with the Fenix, but on the Ambit I have to choose Day or Seconds. If I choose Seconds, I lose the Day and vice versa. Of course, the information is available on both watches, but it is important to me the way it can be displayed. It's a purchasing discriminator for me and the main reason I never bought a Suunto Elementum - an expensive digital watch with no seconds display.

The fact that the Ambit does not sync the time display to the GPS info is an even bigger gaffe. The Fenix does.

What's important to me may not be important to others, but I'm the one who has to live with my choices. ;-)


----------



## ifarlow

My concern with both of them (beyond the fact that they are both fairly large) is that neither has foot pod support. I had the Ambit and took it back for this reason, although I really liked the device otherwise. I'm a fan of setting the device up online versus, for example, my 910xt which is a pain if I ever have to reset it. So... first one to get foot pod support gets my money. Secretly I'm hoping that the Ambit wins, although a recent tweet from Suunto puts the next big firmware update to October or November. That's a long way off in the land of evolving technology. Of course, that's still likely faster than Garmin will move since they rarely (if ever) _add_ features to devices once they are released. Heck... Garmin has a hard time just fixing existing features on their devices.


----------



## ambit_cracker

ifarlow said:


> My concern with both of them (beyond the fact that they are both fairly large) is that neither has foot pod support.


According to this nice comparison Ambit/Fenix/910XT by or_watching, the Fenix has ANT+ footpod support:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f296/fenix-ambit-910xt-comparison-720618.html


----------



## ifarlow

or_watching may have written a chart that shows that the Fenix supports an ANT+ foot pod, but it doesn't. First, the Garmin website lists that the Fenix is compatible with the ANT+ HR strap, the ANT+ Tempe temperature pod, and the ANT+ speed/cadence sensor. It does not list compatibility with the ANT+ foot pod. Second, Ray Maker's preview also doesnt mention compatibility with the ANT+ foot pod, and in the comments he specifically states that the Fenix does not support it. He also states that he asked Garmin to include support for it (which they likely will ignore). We will have to wait for mid to late August to roll around to see if they add support for it or not, but currently the Fenix does not support it.

Ray Maker's prreview: DC Rainmaker: A weekend in Seattle playing with the Garmin Fenix and other gadgets

From the comments on the preview:

_*Anonymous: *Hi Ray, will the foot pod work with the Fenix? Thanks!_
_*Rainmaker: *No, not at this time. I made the request though as well to the Fenix product team._


----------



## ambit_cracker

OK, although I did intervene two time in DCRainmaker comments, seems I skipped this part ;-(((
Well, the perfect watch with all tids and bits will never exist, I fear, market segmentation logic.


----------



## ifarlow

Yeah, I seem to be searching for the perfect ABC-GPS watch and likely won't find it. Both the Ambit and the Fenix (on paper) come close, though.


----------



## or_watching

ifarlow said:


> or_watching may have written a chart that shows that the Fenix supports an ANT+ foot pod, but it doesn't. First, the Garmin website lists that the Fenix is compatible with the ANT+ HR strap, the ANT+ Tempe temperature pod, and the ANT+ speed/cadence sensor. It does not list compatibility with the ANT+ foot pod. Second, Ray Maker's preview also doesnt mention compatibility with the ANT+ foot pod, and in the comments he specifically states that the Fenix does not support it. He also states that he asked Garmin to include support for it (which they likely will ignore).


Well, I can't say where/if I read it about the footpod. But I'd go with whatever DCR and garmin.com say now. I did notice that garmin fixed a typo or two in the specs page, so they are updating what's posted.


----------



## ifarlow

It's certainly possible that Garmin just hasn't added text indicating ANT+ foot pod support to the website (and there is no doubt some tweaking going on just prior to the device being rolled out... no manual at the moment, for example), but it doesn't make much sense that they would skip writing about foot pod support. They specifically list support for other sensors, so to not list the foot pod indicates to me that they had no intent to make it work with the Fenix. I don't quite follow the logic in that decision (including Suunto's similar decision with the Ambit), but it is what it is. I still hope that foot pod support comes in a last-minute firmware update, but at this point I'm not holding my breath. I'll say this: if foot pod support in the Fenix doesn't show up at launch, then I would never hold out hope that it will show up later. Garmin just doesn't work that way.


----------



## paduncan

I am surprised nobody has brought up the custom display and negative / positive display features on the Ambit vs. the Fenix. These were the WOW factors when the Ambit came out. Haven't read one post that discusses the merits of being able to customize the displays on MovesCount.com, or the pos/neg switch.


----------



## ifarlow

paduncan said:


> Haven't read one post that discusses the merits of being able to customize the displays on MovesCount.com, or the pos/neg switch.


While the positive/negative display switch is cool, cool doesn't help me exercise. As far as the merits of being able to customize the displays on Movescount, just a few posts above yours I mentioned:



ifarlow said:


> I'm a fan of setting the device up online versus, for example, my 910xt which is a pain if I ever have to reset it.




I suppose it's not quite gushing or anything, but I really do love the ability to manage the Ambit online. Very easy to customize the watch.


----------



## martowl

I have not chimed in about what I like about the Ambit, having used the Ambit, T6c, x10 Garmin 310xt and 910xt. I will put something together from the perspective of a mountaineer, skier and ultrarunner. One of the MAJOR great factors of the Ambit is the online customization, far more than anything Garmin does.


----------



## paduncan

Haven't dug deep into the Fenix's features yet, but will it have training effect, and all of the other training / fitness metrics that the Ambit has?


----------



## martowl

paduncan said:


> Haven't dug deep into the Fenix's features yet, but will it have training effect, and all of the other training / fitness metrics that the Ambit has?


My reading of it and on DCRainmaker's preview, the answer is no. I have a Garmin handheld device and the fenix appears to blend these ABC features with watch features. Most of the Garmin handhelds will do HR but no R-R data and no ability to incorporate training programs, etc. If these were available they would be listed on Garmin's specs and on the Quick Start Guide. I think it will be great to have the competition. My observance with Garmin is the device that is delivered will pretty much be the final feature-wise except for tweaks to fix problems. Suunto seems committed to change Ambit features, which I hope they can do. For me, allowing logs to be saved in the watch or on my iPhone is the most important, so I can charge and keep going. The second is to follow a breadcrumb or trackpoint route. Suunto had the latter in the X10 so I am confident that they can incorporate this into the Ambit. The former I am not so sure of. For me the Ambit is still the best mix of ABC and training. Unlike most, I prefer Movescount to Garmin connect-with the caveat that I hate you cannot manually upload from another device into Movescount--it should be opened up more.


----------



## ifarlow

martowl said:


> My reading of it and on DCRainmaker's preview, the answer is no.


That's my take as well with the limited information available at the moment.



> My observance with Garmin is the device that is delivered will pretty much be the final feature-wise except for tweaks to fix problems.


Yep. I fully expect that what we see on launch is what we get with the Fenix.



> Unlike most, I prefer Movescount to Garmin connect-with the caveat that I hate you cannot manually upload from another device into Movescount--it should be opened up more.


Add me to that short list. I like the way Movescount presents the information, I like the way Movescounts slices and dices the information, and I like the way that I can manage the Ambit from the website. So much better that the way Garmin does it. I have requested several times now that Suunto allow for proper TCX uploads as well as TCX downloads (although my app of choice, rubiTrack, can read the raw Ambit files). If they would just add foot pod support then I would be all over the Ambit once again.


----------



## ambit_cracker

ifarlow said:


> If they would just add foot pod support then I would be all over the Ambit once again.


Wouldn't that implicitly mean that Suunto should admit that their high tech integrated FuseSpeed technology is not up to the task :roll:


----------



## gaijin

ambit_cracker said:


> Wouldn't that implicitly mean that Suunto should admit that their high tech integrated FuseSpeed technology is not up to the task :roll:


Not at all!

I see the greatest benefit to Foot Pod compatibility would be the ability to use the Ambit on a treadmill. FuseSpeed does no good when stationary. ;-)

HTH


----------



## ifarlow

ambit_cracker said:


> Wouldn't that implicitly mean that Suunto should admit that their high tech integrated FuseSpeed technology is not up to the task


Perhaps, unless FusedSpeed is made to work indoors without GPS coverage. FusedSpeed may work magic when outside with GPS coverage, but does _nothing_ for inside without GPS coverage. Furthermore, it doesn't (as far as I can tell) offer cadence, only distance and pace, and even then only as a supplement to GPS speed and pace.


----------



## ambit_cracker

Sorry, I am a stupid European, I am not used to train indoors ;-)


----------



## ifarlow

gaijin said:


> FuseSpeed does no good when stationary. ;-)


Exactly. I had an argument with Suunto about this very situation and they insisted, repeatedly, that FusedSpeed would work. I tried. It didn't. They finally said that I had to have GPS enabled. I countered with "I'm inside. On a treadmill." Ultimately they agreed that FusedSpeed would not work in this situation. I never got the impression that they really understood why foot pod support would be important. It's made worse by the fact that the Ambit _will_ support both the speed sensor and the cadence sensor for a bike.


----------



## ambit_cracker

ifarlow said:


> I never got the impression that they really understood why foot pod support would be important.


Suunto advertisement for the Ambit says it all:
"Integrated GPS with heart rate monitoring for the Outdoor Explorer" ;-)


----------



## ifarlow

ambit_cracker said:


> Suunto advertisement for the Ambit says it all...


Actually, it doesn't. Care to explain how the following (taken from Movescount) relate to the outdoor explorer?


Indoor Cycling 
Crosstrainer 
Indoor Rowing 
Weight Training 
Aerobics 
Dancing 
Yoga 
Stretching 
Bowling 
Cheerleading 
Badminton 
Ice Skating 
Boxing 
Martial Arts 

The real irony here is that I can attach the Suunto bike speed and bike cadence sensors to an indoor bike trainer and get readings, but I can't add the dang foot pod to my shoe!

The point is that the Ambit is clearly intended for all types of activity, not just those that fall under some vague "outdoor explorer" identifier. Adding foot pod support _should_ be trivial considering that other products made my Suunto do support the foot pod. So the question becomes this: why not add foot pod support?


----------



## martowl

ifarlow said:


> That's my take as well with the limited information available at the moment.
> 
> Yep. I fully expect that what we see on launch is what we get with the Fenix.
> 
> Add me to that short list. I like the way Movescount presents the information, I like the way Movescounts slices and dices the information, and I like the way that I can manage the Ambit from the website. So much better that the way Garmin does it. I have requested several times now that Suunto allow for proper TCX uploads as well as TCX downloads (although my app of choice, rubiTrack, can read the raw Ambit files). If they would just add foot pod support then I would be all over the Ambit once again.


I use rubiTrack as well and... I totally agree with footpod support. Although I am rarely on a treadmill, it happens and as a bonus we should be able to get cadence, they have this in the Quest, no reason it cannot be implemented in the Ambit.


----------



## gaijin

ifarlow said:


> The point is that the Ambit is clearly intended for all types of activity, not just those that fall under some vague "outdoor explorer" identifier. Adding foot pod support _should_ be trivial considering that other products made my Suunto do support the foot pod. So the question becomes this: why not add foot pod support?


Whatever reason Suunto has for not supporting their Foot Pod on the Ambit, Garmin has the same shortcoming - the Garmin Foot Pod is supported on other Garmin devices, but not on the Fenix. :-(

There must be a rational explanation ...

HTH


----------



## ifarlow

gaijin said:


> There must be a rational explanation ...


I'm guessing that the explanation (non-rational as it is) centers around marketing and product differentiation.


----------



## or_watching

ifarlow said:


> I'm guessing that the explanation (non-rational as it is) centers around marketing and product differentiation.


Not sure why , but it kinda reminds me of this cartoon...


----------



## gaijin

May be old news to others, but I just found the Fenix Quick Start Guide as part of the FCC filings: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=799947&fcc_id=%27IPH-O2AWGD%27

Click on "User Manual 1" to view the June 12, 2012 version of the Quick Start Guide.

HTH


----------



## format

In fact it's old news to the thread. Also that quick start seems a few sheets put together to fcc submission. you can't squeeze almost nothing from it.


----------



## GhostBear

Hey Guys,

Couldn't find this anywhere else so I thought I'd pop it in here - fenix Videos - Just some general look and feel stuff for the watch and a release date of the 24th of this month. I can feel the visa stating to tingle, the more I look at this watch the more I want it. It may even be a pre-order if my excitement doesn't get tempered soon.


----------



## gaijin

GhostBear said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Couldn't find this anywhere else so I thought I'd pop it in here - fenix Videos - Just some general look and feel stuff for the watch and a release date of the 24th of this month. I can feel the visa stating to tingle, the more I look at this watch the more I want it. It may even be a pre-order if my excitement doesn't get tempered soon.


Thanks for posting that link! The fenix has even more than I expected. Mine is already pre-ordered, so this makes the wait all that more anxious. ;-)


----------



## Mystro

That is a good feature.


----------



## Lost-again

gaijin said:


> Thanks for posting that link! The fenix has even more than I expected. Mine is already pre-ordered, so this makes the wait all that more anxious. ;-)


Wow UK Grid (and many others) supported out of the box, the one key feature missing ( and a miss for Suunto IMHO). If the v2.0 update does not have this, the Ambit could be in for early retirement!


----------



## primus

Somewhere in these videos, units for depth are mentioned! Is Fenix equipped with depth meter?

Also, is Fenix waterproof like Suunto Core, where 30 meters really mean 30 meters of depth? Or "50 meters waterproof (@ Fenix)" mean, that only swimming is permitted with this ABC instrument.


----------



## gaijin

primus said:


> Somewhere in these videos, units for depth are mentioned! Is Fenix equipped with depth meter?
> 
> Also, is Fenix waterproof like Suunto Core, where 30 meters really mean 30 meters of depth? Or "50 meters waterproof (@ Fenix)" mean, that only swimming is permitted with this ABC instrument.


As far as I know, there is no depth meter in the fenix. What I understand from the video is that you can add depth information to a waypoint. For example, if one of your waypoints is a fishing spot, you could add the water depth at that spot to the information that displays about the waypoint.

Not sure about the water resistance. I'm sure there will be better information in the Manual, but unfortunately it is not available yet. :-( All the specs on the Garmin web site say is "Waterproof 50 m." My guess is this means swimming and snorkeling are OK, but SCUBA diving is probably not. We'll have to wait and see for a definitive answer to this one. ;-)

HTH


----------



## cobrapa

One of the comments on the gpscity city mentions that the fenix comes with a basemap for the region you purchase, claiming internal 20mb of memory. That's pretty cool. I thought maybe it would just have tracks and a mini display, but they are saying internal map as well.


----------



## gaijin

cobrapa said:


> One of the comments on the gpscity city mentions that the fenix comes with a basemap for the region you purchase, claiming internal 20mb of memory. That's pretty cool. I thought maybe it would just have tracks and a mini display, but they are saying internal map as well.


Yes, but ... it looks like that basemap gives you state borders and not much else. So you'll know whether or not you're in PA, but that's about it.

Anyway, better than nothing, I suppose. ;-)

hth


----------



## suecoloco

Not so impressed with the interface on the fenix. It feels like Ambit is more clearly targeted towards ultrarunners/trail runners while Fenix is a multi tool watch for outdoor people (with a lot of cool but unnecessary features), sometimes less is more and for me fenix has way to many features. Although Ambit lacks some core functionality I prefer its simplicity (and looks ). 

I have also changed my mind about routes and waypoints, I have used Forerunner with routes and a lot of times it said you were of track just because the accuracy of the GPS was off. Waypoints is better for me becuase it allows me to improvise a little but still guides me in the right direction.


----------



## Mystro

Nothing is gonna touch the Ambits looks. The adjustable display on the Ambit is a awsome feature and it's display clarity is excellent. The Ambit has the "Wow" factor, the Felix looks like a gizmo watch.


----------



## cobrapa

I want that gps track gizmo :roll:


----------



## GhostBear

Lost-again said:


> Wow UK Grid (and many others) supported out of the box


Nice spot - I missed that. That's a handy little feature, really nice and thought out. After all, how often do you really use Degrees, minutes and seconds when out and about. Ironically this little trick has actually sold me on it, it'll really help when out with my troop of scouts.


----------



## GPSGeo

gaijin said:


> As far as I know, there is no depth meter in the fenix. What I understand from the video is that you can add depth information to a waypoint. For example, if one of your waypoints is a fishing spot, you could add the water depth at that spot to the information that displays about the waypoint.


Two of the available data fields are a barometric & ambient pressure measured in mb. I've attached a photo for reference... I also dunked it in a glass of water to make sure the sensor was pulling real-time data |>

My apologies if this comes out of the blue- Our company is the one that produced the fenix videos, and we have the watch on-hand. I first reached out to the staff here a few weeks ago to ensure that I wouldn't be stepping on any toes by posting, but have yet to receive a response. In the interest of ensuring correct information is distributed, I figured I would register and address any issues your forum felt have been inadequately covered. If this is deemed imprudent, I understand and please feel free to delete.

G


----------



## gaijin

GPSGeo said:


> Two of the available data fields are a barometric & ambient pressure measured in mb. I've attached a photo for reference... I also dunked it in a glass of water to make sure the sensor was pulling real-time data |>
> 
> My apologies if this comes out of the blue- Our company is the one that produced the fenix videos, and we have the watch on-hand. I first reached out to the staff here a few weeks ago to ensure that I wouldn't be stepping on any toes by posting, but have yet to receive a response. In the interest of ensuring correct information is distributed, I figured I would register and address any issues your forum felt have been inadequately covered. If this is deemed imprudent, I understand and please feel free to delete.
> 
> G


welcome, GPSGeo, and thanks for chiming in. The more info the better!

If I understand your post correctly, the option you show is simultaneous display of sea level pressure (the "Barometer" reading) and absolute pressure (the "AMB Pressure" reading). This is great stuff!


----------



## SavageSS

Hi GPSGeo.
Can you let me know if the watch had MGRS for Australia? and can the compass show in Mills?
Cheers


----------



## GPSGeo

SavageSS said:


> Hi GPSGeo.
> Can you let me know if the watch had MGRS for Australia? and can the compass show in Mills?
> Cheers


Thanks for the warm welcome!

MGRS is one of the many available position formats it can display, and it has AGD66/84 as well as the GDA94 datums (along with countless others). The compass can display data in Degrees or Mils, as well.

G


----------



## MagnumIP

Grids, visual trail and much more is coming. Start thinking v1.8, v2.0, v.2.5 and beyond


----------



## gaijin

MagnumIP said:


> Grids, visual trail and much more is coming. Start thinking v1.8, v2.0, v.2.5 and beyond


And what about GPS time sync? Didn't you say that was going to be implemented on the Ambit with the first FW update? ;-)

On March 21, 2012 you wrote:



MagnumIP said:


> As I said, so many of the things you miss will be added, including GPS time sync, navigation and many more.
> Those features I have mentioned, you can take to the bank


HTH


----------



## Lost-again

If the details of the next update on DC Rainmaker's review are true, I guess we can close this thread with the simple answer "No it will no be an Ambit killer!".


----------



## ifarlow

Agreed. I agree so much so that I am headed out today to purchase a new Ambit. I returned my last one because there were features I really wanted but weren't implemented, and these two updates suit my wants perfectly.


----------



## MagnumIP

gaijin said:


> And what about GPS time sync? Didn't you say that was going to be implemented on the Ambit with the first FW update? ;-)
> 
> On March 21, 2012 you wrote:
> 
> HTH


What I actually said was "The Ambit will get GPS time sync in a future update". NOW I'm saying it will be within the next 2 months. ;-)


----------



## Mystro

Suunto knows what they are doing. They are perfectly aware of what is else is out there and what their competition brings to the table. Suunto doesn't doesn't produce second place watches.. Even though Garmin is a GPS company, they dont have the experience or expertise as Suunto does in this category of wrist watches. Suunto IS the leader with these kinds of watches. The fenix will be a cheap alternative made in China and will never have the reputation Suunto does.


----------



## martowl

Mystro said:


> Suunto knows what they are doing. They are perfectly aware of what is else is out there and what there competition brings to the table. Suunto doesn't doesn't produce second place watches.. Even though Garmin is a GPS company, they dont have the experience or expertise as Suunto does in this category of wrist watches. Suunto IS the leader with these kinds of watches. The fenix will be a cheap alternative made in China and will never have the reputation Suunto does.


Mystro, I could not agree with you more, I have been a Suunto owner since they introduced the Vector. A week after I bought my Vector (an expensive purchase for a grad student at the time) I was moving file cabinets and put a deep scratch in the watch face, rendering the watch nearly unreadable. I called Suunto and asked if it could be fixed. I sent the unit in and received with no charge a brand new Vector. When my X9i battery gave out long after the warranty period I sent it in for repair and received a new X10 no charge! The Ambit is already a great training instrument. Suunto's idea is to buy the watch and have it last. I have owned Garmins and also do not feel that they compare.


----------



## format

Competition is a beautiful thing. The battle in on!!! FIGHT!!!!!!

DC Rainmaker: Suunto Ambit to get full ANT+ functionality in November 2012, additional features in September 2012.


----------



## or_watching

format said:


> Competition is a beautiful thing. The battle in on!!! FIGHT!!!!!!
> 
> DC Rainmaker: Suunto Ambit to get full ANT+ functionality in November 2012, additional features in September 2012.


Whoa Nelly! Good Stuff.


----------



## gaijin

MagnumIP said:


> What I actually said was "The Ambit will get GPS time sync in a future update". NOW I'm saying it will be within the next 2 months. ;-)


Fair enough, I stand corrected. I'll hold you to it! ;-) If there is no GPS time sync implemented on the Ambit by 10 October, 2012 you owe me a virtual beer.


----------



## martowl

gaijin said:


> Fair enough, I stand corrected. I'll hold you to it! ;-) If there is no GPS time sync implemented on the Ambit by 10 October, 2012 you owe me a virtual beer.


If MagnumIP owes you a virtual beer then you owe the rest of us a video of the virtual drink:-d


----------



## gaijin

martowl said:


> If MagnumIP owes you a virtual beer then you owe the rest of us a video of the virtual drink:-d


Wouldn't be the first time a video of me drinking (virtual or otherwise) showed up in a public forum. ;-)


----------



## MagnumIP

gaijin said:


> Fair enough, I stand corrected. I'll hold you to it! ;-) If there is no GPS time sync implemented on the Ambit by 10 October, 2012 you owe me a virtual beer.


:-d Deal!

Lets make it interesting though -I also predict..............
An option to have the backlight permanently activated b-)


----------



## martowl

MagnumIP said:


> :-d Deal!
> 
> Lets make it interesting though -I also predict..............
> An option to have the backlight permanently activated b-)


I asked for this by sending more than one email to the dev team--will be happy to have this on my shorter runs! Glad the Ambit is on my wrist and not trying to find one when the updates come through and it is sold out---again!;-)


----------



## Mystro

I have been pestering the Ambit team for a countdown timer and stand alone chrono. I also wanted a 6 hour weather forcast arrow. The current barometer graph does not show movement very dramatic like the Core does. The graph scale needs to be changed. I have corresponded with them on several occasions about this.



martowl said:


> I asked for this by sending more than one email to the dev team--will be happy to have this on my shorter runs! Glad the Ambit is on my wrist and not trying to find one when the updates come through and it is sold out---again!;-)


----------



## or_watching

Amen on the Barometer scale. And the Countdown timer. 

.... the single alarm and no countdown timer keep me from wearing the Ambit more regularly... though it's funny to me how often I've come use those features in a watch once I got them.


----------



## MagnumIP

I hear you, the countdown timer is a must - I use it almost every day, how else do I know when to rotate my steak!


----------



## petew

MagnumIP, just give me a strap option that's long enough to wear over my Ski Jacket, and it'll then be the perfect outdoor watch for me! I"m really looking forward to the latest enhancements though, that's for sure.


----------



## MagnumIP

Great idea! But you are directing it at the wrong place - *I do not currently decide, inform or have anything to do with Suunto or the development their products. *
On the other hand YOU can! Everything sent to [email protected] is read so I know that if you, and 1000 of your friends got together to bomb the email address with a request of say.... an interval timer... then i'm pretty sure you would have a reasonable chance of successb-)


----------



## Mystro

It would be nice to see the Ambit have some strap choices and colors like burn orange or ranger green.. It seems like accessorizing these type of watches is very popular.


----------



## andy c

Mystro said:


> It would be nice to see the Ambit have some strap choices and colors like burn orange or ranger green.. It seems like accessorizing these type of watches is very popular.


A burnt orange strap. Now that would be cool.


----------



## gaijin

andy c said:


> A burnt orange strap. Now that would be cool.


Like this Fenix strap?










;-)

HTH


----------



## andy c

gaijin said:


> Like this Fenix strap?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ;-)
> 
> HTH


Right colour strap, wrong watch.


----------



## gaijin

andy c said:


> Right colour strap, wrong watch.


We'll see. ;-) Should be released in two weeks or so - can't wait to do an in-depth review. Since I'll be using mine as an everyday watch, the ability to use just about any 24mm strap is a big plus.


----------



## SSingh1975

The 24mm standard lugs (and BT connectivity) on the Fenix is what's pulling me to the 'dark side' right now. I do agree, aesthetically, the Ambit looks more cooler. Both my aging Vector and Core had been on after market straps from day one and I've never been a big fan of stock rubber straps (unless it's a Hirsh or Isofrane). I think the Fenix would be more 'office-friendly' on a 24mm thick leather strap than the Ambit.

I didn't pick up the Ambit at launch (had enough issues with my Core so decided to wait it out)....then lost interest and picked up the Casio Protek for my ABC needs. Then decided to get the Ambit eventually last week (work bonus always help!) and came back to the Suunto section and guess what......I run into the Fenix thread!!! But with the Fenix release so close, I'm going to wait out the reviews. I think I should be pretty satisfied with either watches but $400-$500 is still a lot of money for a digital watch (albeit features).

BTW, I think the Fenix on the burnt amber strap looks a killer (sorry...Ambit fans!).


----------



## RobGrinter

Stay Tuned for some more news pre Xmas that should shake up this discussion even further.

One could say, "Will the xxxxxx be the Fenix killer, that killed the Ambit"

No I am not talking about the new Polar RC3 that was announced today. That unfortunately was dead before it arrived. Beaten by Garmin (15 times over), Timex, Suunto, Bryton, Motorola, Nike and probably many more.


----------



## Garda

RobGrinter said:


> Stay Tuned for some more news pre Xmas that should shake up this discussion even further.
> 
> One could say, "Will the xxxxxx be the Fenix killer, that killed the Ambit"
> 
> No I am not talking about the new Polar RC3 that was announced today. That unfortunately was dead before it arrived. Beaten by Garmin (15 times over), Timex, Suunto, Bryton, Motorola, Nike and probably many more.


Can you elaborate from what company ? 
Shame about the Polar RC3 GPS. Lot of us were expecting a successor to the RCX5 or RS800CX.


----------



## cobrapa

RobGrinter said:


> Stay Tuned for some more news pre Xmas that should shake up this discussion even further.
> 
> One could say, "Will the xxxxxx be the Fenix killer, that killed the Ambit"
> 
> No I am not talking about the new Polar RC3 that was announced today. That unfortunately was dead before it arrived. Beaten by Garmin (15 times over), Timex, Suunto, Bryton, Motorola, Nike and probably many more.


Sounds cool Rob. I'd like a Ambit without the antenna bulge like the fenix, altough we'll have to see how Garmin's gps reception is to find out of that's a good idea or not.


----------



## GPSGeo

cobrapa said:


> Sounds cool Rob. I'd like a Ambit without the antenna bulge like the fenix, altough we'll have to see how Garmin's gps reception is to find out of that's a good idea or not.


To take a small note and expand on it...

I've been wearing an Ambit on one wrist and Fenix on the other for the last few days (Yep. I'm THAT guy) during certain activities that are along known routes. My main objective is to assess the GPS receivers in both, but I'm also learning what it's like to "live" with one or the other. A secondary objective is to get as many weird looks as possible.

Main methodology of testing: I run an 5.5mi course pretty much daily, and have been wearing a 910XT on every run for the last three months. I have a precedent of 55 historical runs that are almost step-for-step identical in terms of positioning, not pace. Wearing both the fenix and Ambit, the plan is to check for any unacceptable (IMO) deviations compared to the historical data. I switch them off from one wrist to the other every run just to even out any variables that might come with being attached to one side or the other.

Once I have both sets of data for a solid week, I'll feel I'm in a better position to opine. I have yet to get the Ambit to successfully download my data to my movescout account. I keep receiving "Failed to read data from Suunto Ambit. Please check your device connection and try again." on my Mac after forcing a firmware upgrade, so I'll try on another computer this afternoon.

My initial impression from the limited data I can see is that they're extremely close. Ambit read 5.6mi and fenix read 5.5mi over the last two nights. Once I can see the GPX file, I can find out where that extra .1mi is coming from or getting dropped.

G


----------



## cobrapa

Very cool. Nice testing.

Where can we find a fenix to test with? :rodekaart


----------



## GPSGeo

cobrapa said:


> Very cool. Nice testing.
> 
> Where can we find a fenix to test with? :rodekaart


Out of respect for WUS sponsors, I plead the fifth. I'm pretty sure everything's still on schedule for an early/mid-September delivery, though.

Alternatively, if you're in Vegas and want to set your eyes on it, let me know.

G


----------



## GhostBear

gaijin said:


> Since I'll be using mine as an everyday watch, the ability to use just about any 24mm strap is a big plus.


Is it a 24mm lug space? I've heard other people say its at 26mm, I know you can get some zulu's that wide and you'd probably get away with a 24 anyway but if it is then it's going to be a biiiiigggg strap.


----------



## Lost-again

GPSGeo said:


> To take a small note and expand on it...
> 
> I've been wearing an Ambit on one wrist and Fenix on the other for the last few days (Yep. I'm THAT guy) during certain activities that are along known routes. My main objective is to assess the GPS receivers in both, but I'm also learning what it's like to "live" with one or the other. A secondary objective is to get as many weird looks as possible.
> 
> Main methodology of testing: I run an 5.5mi course pretty much daily, and have been wearing a 910XT on every run for the last three months. I have a precedent of 55 historical runs that are almost step-for-step identical in terms of positioning, not pace. Wearing both the fenix and Ambit, the plan is to check for any unacceptable (IMO) deviations compared to the historical data. I switch them off from one wrist to the other every run just to even out any variables that might come with being attached to one side or the other.
> 
> Once I have both sets of data for a solid week, I'll feel I'm in a better position to opine. I have yet to get the Ambit to successfully download my data to my movescout account. I keep receiving "Failed to read data from Suunto Ambit. Please check your device connection and try again." on my Mac after forcing a firmware upgrade, so I'll try on another computer this afternoon.
> 
> My initial impression from the limited data I can see is that they're extremely close. Ambit read 5.6mi and fenix read 5.5mi over the last two nights. Once I can see the GPX file, I can find out where that extra .1mi is coming from or getting dropped.
> 
> G


It is interesting to see the Ambit at 5.6 and Fenix at 5.5, many on here (although not my experience) claim the Ambit reports short distance?


----------



## GPSGeo

I apologize in advance for the lighting. The left side is lined up with the 10mm mark, so this should give you a better idea of the actual strap size.

G


----------



## Lost-again

Looks like 26 mm?


----------



## GPSGeo

Lost-again said:


> It is interesting to see the Ambit at 5.6 and Fenix at 5.5, many on here (although not my experience) claim the Ambit reports short distance?


I thought it was interesting as well, though my confidence level isn't near 100% for two main reasons: 1) Sample size, 2) The fenix firmware is still in beta. I'll keep working on both!

G


----------



## format

The difference between Fenix and Ambit would be on details and feature A or B missing in one or the other. But Suunto is going to win this game because they're showing their customers that they won't get stuck with the Ambit. They'll have an always evolving watch. The Fenix will be another dead corps a few days after launch because Garmin never updates their products with new features. And the differences will be in the features not in the GPS signal/recording. I tested an Ambit against a 610 with same methodology. No differences, besides the obivous ones being 2 different products.


----------



## or_watching

Just because I have them... here are my 2-cent predictions

1. With decent/open sky view, all the watches will have decent reception. Antenna won't be a big factor in reported distance. (Garmin can't have made that daft a compromise)
2. It's the in-watch filtering algorithms (smart vs. 1/sec vs 2*EHPE, etc) that will account for most of the apparent differences.
2a. Pre/Early release may not be a fair judge.
3. Under tougher GPS conditions, size and position matter. I'm talking about the antenna. 

But if Garmin pulls this off, it's a feather in their hardware engineering cap ... 49x49x17mm & no antenna bulge.


----------



## cobrapa

GPSGeo said:


> Out of respect for WUS sponsors, I plead the fifth. I'm pretty sure everything's still on schedule for an early/mid-September delivery, though.
> 
> Alternatively, if you're in Vegas and want to set your eyes on it, let me know.
> 
> G


Hehe, good response. I was mostly teasing. You never know, there might be some early samples available. A man can dream!


----------



## ifarlow

or_watching said:


> Garmin can't have made that daft a compromise


While I follow and basically agree with what you said, this part isn't something that I would bet on. Garmin (and many other companies, Suunto included) will make decisions that only they can explain but come across as strange or downright stupid. For example, the Garmin 610 is supposed to be the top of the line running watch, but it doesn't support Courses (a big deal for many, it seems). It is also not fully waterproof as it only tests at IPX7 standards. The 910xt is the top of the line tri watch, and yet it can't actually function as a watch (even though it does have a Time of Day data field).

So, I wouldn't be quite so sure that Garmin won't make another odd decision with the fenix... only time and the release firmware will tell.


----------



## or_watching

ifarlow said:


> So, I wouldn't be quite so sure that Garmin won't make another odd decision with the fenix... only time and the release firmware will tell.


True enough. The touch bezel was apparently another case (I never used one myself). But I give them some points for the mentality of applied innovation and risk taking. Touch screen inclusive. Buyer beware, right? I think it's all about the right tension between marketing dreams and engineering reality. So long as it's not in their Aviation division.


----------



## GPSGeo

or_watching said:


> True enough. The touch bezel was apparently another case (I never used one myself). But I give them some points for the mentality of applied innovation and risk taking. Touch screen inclusive. Buyer beware, right? I think it's all about the right tension between marketing dreams and engineering reality. So long as it's not in their Aviation division.


Amen to that. On all counts. The Forerunner 405 (the first to include the touch bezel) is possibly my least favorite product, but it represented a decent leap forward in their creative thinking. It's likely that the engineers that worked on the concept had never actually broken a sweat running before, so they couldn't have known to design for those conditions :think:

To their credit, Garmin has been quickly and effectively adapting to the input they've been receiving on this, so I'm hoping the final product will reflect that attitude.

G


----------



## format

I miss my 405 over my 610... chuifff. All I had to do was lock the bezel when the moisture got going. But it had a ton of features, (i.e. courses  Now I love the 610 touch screen that works even underwater but I hate Garmin for (intentionally) let courses out and never moved a finger to release the feature (although its there already) even after 8 firmware updates. GRRR!!!!!!

I learned my lesson. Fenix firmware day 1 is gold release for ever. If it's not there, forget it. All you'll got is bug fixing. Just wait for Ambit "real" nav to jump off the Garmin boat. Unless Fenix would amaze me by including every feature possible now and forever...

With this Fenix release I almost see a Garmin fighting to change attitude. So many features, a few days to gold feature and there isn't a word about final feature set. New things are entering the beta firmwares... Even the Fenix is not a clear product... Is it for hikers? For runners? It's not a Forerunner but apparently they don't want to let those guys out... It's going to be an interesting Christmas with November Ambit firmware and Fenix with 2 or 3 firmware updates also (will they be just bug fix as usual?)


----------



## or_watching

RobGrinter said:


> One could say, "Will the xxxxxx be the Fenix killer, that killed the Ambit"


Sorry, couldn't resist updating my table with the recent news on the Ambit, and from Rob.
I'm not sure though if I'm poking fun at him (;-)) or at myself... :think:

PM me any corrections you have.


----------



## cobrapa

Lol. Gps Time Sync = 'No. It tells the satellites what time it is'

Nicely done. :-d


----------



## RobGrinter

or_watching said:


> Sorry, couldn't resist updating my table with the recent news on the Ambit, and from Rob.
> I'm not sure though if I'm poking fun at him (;-)) or at myself... :think:
> 
> PM me any corrections you have.


Nice, I got a watch named after me. The SuperRob

I will take it as a compliment, even if it does look like Big Ben and has all the problems in the world with it! I am chuffed.

Seriously though, the watch/s I speak of is/are not far off the existing ones but simplified down. Unfortunately I cannot say any more. Hence it may be deemed more Baby Ben than Big Ben !


----------



## GhostBear

GPSGeo said:


> I apologize in advance for the lighting. The left side is lined up with the 10mm mark, so this should give you a better idea of the actual strap size.


Thanks GPSGeo, that certainly looks like a big ol' 26mm to me. You seriously are going to have to stop showing off this watch, it's making the wait all the more unbearable! In all seriousness I really appreciate all the info you are bringing to the table.

As an asside I wonder how Seiko feel about their Astron "the worlds first GPS time controlled watch" being beaten to release both by a Garmin and a Sunnto. Completely different styles of watch I know but it isn't so much of a USP now.


----------



## pjc3

Hi Rob,

Do you have any inside info regarding Ambit supporting NZGD2000 and AMG94?

Cheers


----------



## petew

GhostBear said:


> As an asside I wonder how Seiko feel about their Astron "the worlds first GPS time controlled watch" being beaten to release both by a Garmin and a Sunnto. Completely different styles of watch I know but it isn't so much of a USP now.


There have been GPS time controlled watches available for years now. I'm not sure why Seiko has been making that claim.


----------



## or_watching

GhostBear said:


> As an asside I wonder how Seiko feel about their Astron "the worlds first GPS time controlled watch" being beaten to release both by a Garmin and a Sunnto. Completely different styles of watch I know but it isn't so much of a USP now.


the press release I read said the first solar GPS watch ...
And I think it's the first with automatic detection of the 39 time zones...
I don't think they thought it was the first with GPS synch.


----------



## GhostBear

or_watching said:


> the press release I read said the first solar GPS watch ...
> And I think it's the first with automatic detection of the 39 time zones...
> I don't think they thought it was the first with GPS synch.


Looks like you're right, I guess that is what they meant then. You raise a interesting point though - will the Fenix and "New" Ambit detect timezones, I would have thought it would have, or at least be an easy job for the GPS on them. Didn't Citizen release a Solar GPS watch as a limited edition a while back though?


----------



## petew

This was the first Solar GPS watch...it was released a year ago. I guess the Seiko is the first Solar with auto TZ detection.


----------



## or_watching

GhostBear said:


> Didn't Citizen release a Solar GPS watch as a limited edition a while back though?


Well, that's Marketing for you.


----------



## mars.ll

Nice watch. What model is it?


petew said:


> This was the first Solar GPS watch...it was released a year ago. I guess the Seiko is the first Solar with auto TZ detection.


----------



## Keith437

They say it has TracBack, which should provide that follow track ability people really want. It'll be interesting to see how their navigation looks. I'm looking forward to it.​


----------



## petew

Citizen Appleseed Satellite Wave


----------



## Shayne438

They say it has TracBack, which should provide that follow track ability people really want. It'll be interesting to see how their navigation looks. I'm looking forward to it.​


----------



## or_watching

gaijin said:


> Thankyou for your purchase of the Garmin fēnix. Please be aware that Garmin isstill awaiting Federal Communications Commission (FCC) authorization of thisdevice.
> 
> Upon receipt of FCC authorization, the device will be available for sale andshipment.
> Sincerely,
> Garmin International,Inc.
> 
> All good things come to he who waits ...
> 
> ;-)


I apologize if this is old news...
According to this:
Garmin Fenix - The GPS Watch for All Outdoor Enthusiasts - SFGate

Garmin has now receiced FCC approval...


----------



## gaijin

or_watching said:


> I apologize if this is old news...
> According to this:
> Garmin Fenix - The GPS Watch for All Outdoor Enthusiasts - SFGate
> 
> Garmin has now receiced FCC approval...


I hope to be writing my first review of the Fenix by the end of this month.


----------



## primus

gaijin said:


> As far as I know, there is no depth meter in the fenix. ...
> HTH


At the moment I am user of Garmin 405, Suunto Core and Suunto D4, anyway, I will buy new Fenix, 100%.
But it would be very useful if Fenix, like Core, will have DEPTH METER. Since Fenix already has pressure sensor like Core and it is WR to 50 meters, pressure sensor apparently withstand high pressure and it probably offers some readings at least at depths up to 10 or 20 meters, which (with adequate algorithm) could be converted into depth measurements.
In this case for all my activities I will need only two tools: Fenix and D4.


----------



## johngenx

I use an ABC watch all the time while climbing, and Suunto models are popular in the climbing community. Personally, I am not impressed with Suunto build quality. I haven't had one that lasted very long before it was malfunctioning in some manner. I bought a Momentum (St-Moritz) VS-1, and it held up better than any Sunnto I've owned, but now it's also broken. There has been an inverse relationship between complexity and reliability.

On the other hand, I have used Garmin gps units extensively, and have been very impressed with their reliability. I had one Magellen device that was returned, and I returned to Garmin.

Based on my experience with both brands, I would not buy another Suunto product, but I have pre-ordered the Garmin Fenix.


----------



## Mystro

What Suunto models have you owned that failed?? There is a big difference between the abuse a handheld GPS unit receives verses strapping one on your wrist.


johngenx said:


> I use an ABC watch all the time while climbing, and Suunto models are popular in the climbing community. Personally, I am not impressed with Suunto build quality. I haven't had one that lasted very long before it was malfunctioning in some manner. I bought a Momentum (St-Moritz) VS-1, and it held up better than any Sunnto I've owned, but now it's also broken. There has been an inverse relationship between complexity and reliability.
> 
> On the other hand, I have used Garmin gps units extensively, and have been very impressed with their reliability. I had one Magellen device that was returned, and I returned to Garmin.
> 
> Based on my experience with both brands, I would not buy another Suunto product, but I have pre-ordered the Garmin Fenix.


----------



## johngenx

Mystro said:


> What Suunto models have you owned that failed?? There is a big difference between the abuse a handheld GPS unit receives verses strapping one on your wrist.


Core and Vector models. All failed for various reasons, mostly failing buttons. I have used a Garmin 305 extensively, and it's been durable. I'm also not very gentle with my handheld gps units. I subject my gear to some pretty harsh conditions, and so far, everything Garmin-made has been reliable, be it handheld or wrist mounted. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt with this product based on previous experience.


----------



## or_watching

For sure plenty of people love their 305's.... and keep them a long time.


----------



## GPSGeo

The ability to select depth measurement units is in the system settings. I've not had the time to dive a bit deeper (no pun intended) to locate and test the functionality, however it's apparently baked in.

Units offered are feet, fathoms, and meters.

G


----------



## gaijin

GPSGeo said:


> The ability to select depth measurement units is in the system settings. I've not had the time to dive a bit deeper (no pun intended) to locate and test the functionality, however it's apparently baked in.
> 
> Units offered are feet, fathoms, and meters.
> 
> G
> 
> View attachment 801284


Please be aware this is NOT a Depth Meter. It is simply the ability to add text about depth to an existing Waypoint. For instance if you mark a favorite fishing spot as a waypoint, you can add depth information to the Waypoint description.

The Fenix does NOT have a depth meter and is not capable of measuring depth.

HTH


----------



## or_watching

GPSGeo said:


> Units offered are feet, fathoms, and meters]


What? No Leagues? 
They've lost all the sales to Ancient Romans then!


----------



## dani31

Any details about the altimeter function, specifically the refresh rate / lag? How close to real-time is it?

I'm interested to use it as a second alti for skydiving. So far the closest I could get was the Suunto Core, but it's not coming even close to a dedicated alti.


----------



## GPSGeo

dani31 said:


> Any details about the altimeter function, specifically the refresh rate / lag? How close to real-time is it?
> 
> I'm interested to use it as a second alti for skydiving. So far the closest I could get was the Suunto Core, but it's not coming even close to a dedicated alti.


Apologies on the radio silence lately -- I'll get that information for you, hopefully today. Incidentally, I know that a lot of people have been cross-shopping this with the Foretrex for non-civilian use, and one of the most popular features of that series was the Jumpmaster function.

We're nearing final release, but as I'm sure most are aware, bringing a new product to market is a labor of love and an exercise in patience. Garmin's pushed the date out a week (that may sometimes run into two or three), but I'll post a note when it starts shipping.

G


----------



## kirbysdl

Manual was posted in the last 2 minutes:

Manuals

EDIT: we need their cdn to catch up :roll:


----------



## gaijin

kirbysdl said:


> Manual was posted in the last 2 minutes:
> 
> Manuals
> 
> EDIT: we need their cdn to catch up :roll:


You beat me to it: Manuals

It's encouraging that the manuals are now available, but Garmin have pushed the release date back another week. :-(

Amazon now has shipment of the Fenix from them scheduled for September 30: http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Hiking...8&qid=1346448564&sr=8-1&keywords=Garmin+fenix

We're getting closer. 

HTH


----------



## ifarlow

Well, now that I have seen the manual... no footpod support. That's disappointing.


----------



## or_watching

For sure this is the hiker's and geocachers feature set to beat... and an easy transition from a Garmin handheld.
Now it's all about getting some practical field performance testing on production units. (DC Rainmakers hiking track was far from stellar).

My favorite stuff (i.e. vs November Ambit)
- Overall: Menu system and button-press efficiency
- Ext temp sensor
- Large array of Alert options
- WP averaging
- Vibration
- Track intervals by dist/time
- Sun/Moon Almanac
- Optional auto GPS-cal of altimeter
- Adjustable backlight duration
- Create Route in watch
- Bluetooth options.


----------



## format

I read the whole poor manual and I still have many doubts.

Will I be able to load a route and start following that route being alerted only when I get X meters out of route? If I don't turn in the right track and get off track for instance?


----------



## kirbysdl

The manuals were not at all comprehensive. Many sections seemed to say, "Go here and you can modify the settings." Well, what are the settings and what are the available options for each? I guess by keeping it vague they can make firmware improvements without obsoleting the docs, but still. For a $400 price tag you should devote a bit more time to your documentation.


----------



## ifarlow

kirbysdl said:


> I guess by keeping it vague they can make firmware improvements without obsoleting the docs, but still.


I would _not_ jump to this conclusion. Garmin doesn't operate this way. The safer conclusion is (1) what the fenix can do at launch is what it will do for its product lifetime, and (2) the manual is just poorly written.


----------



## martowl

ifarlow said:


> I would _not_ jump to this conclusion. Garmin doesn't operate this way. The safer conclusion is (1) what the fenix can do at launch is what it will do for its product lifetime, and (2) the manual is just poorly written.


I agree with ifarlow, Garmin has not provided many firmware improvements. In fact, improvements stated for the 310XT including TSS for power meters was canned even though they stated it would be available as an upgrade. My experience with my Oregon 450, which I don't use much because in the daytime the screen is unreadable and my iPhone is better...is that firmware upgrades providing enhanced functionality are not Garmin's business plan. If you want something added to the fenix, wait for the next one, the current model is highly unlikely to be upgraded.

I may start a new thread but am focusing on my training at this time. IMHO the fenix is a hiker/geocacher watch, it probably has a better feature set for those folks. For me, as a trail runner/mountaineer I much prefer the feature set of the Ambit (with the upgrades stated). I would not want to use the fenix as a running watch as I think it will be very cumbersome to set fields for that. I like the online customization of the Ambit. I do not need to change my customization often, mostly when the seasons change so not having that functionality on the watch is not an issue for me.


----------



## johngenx

martowl said:


> IMHO the fenix is a hiker/geocacher watch, it probably has a better feature set for those folks. For me, as a trail runner/mountaineer I much prefer the feature set of the Ambit (with the upgrades stated).


I'm looking to use the watch primarily for climbing, and either seems to fit the bill. I am looking forward to trying the remote temperature sensor, as then I don't have to take my watch off at night to get an accurate temperature reading. The vibration feature is very interesting to me as well, as I often have my watch buried deep in my sleeping bag and can't hear the little beeps most watches use for an alarm. Even when I hang my watch in the tent, I can't hear the alarm, and I'd prefer to get a temp reading outside.

The Track-back is the feature I use a lot on my current gps. Setting waypoints for critical navigation points and back-tracking in poor weather (typically on large, featureless icefields in white-out conditions) is what I really need the gps to do, and it looks like the fenix will do that with ease. As far as ABC functions, I have used Garmin's three axis electronic compass, and found it excellent. The gps calibrating altimeter is good, and vital to difficult navigation situations. I won't miss the topo mapping and screen feature of my handheld gps, as I can't stand using it anyway. I much prefer to use my paper map. None of the ABC/gps watches offer it anyway.

I too trail run, but not competitively or on a rigorous training system/schedule. I do it to train for climbing and for enjoyment, and just knowing total distance and elevation gain/loss will suit me fine, so for running, it has more than enough functionality.

I don't think the Garmin will "kill" the Ambit, but it sure offers an attractive non-Suunto option in the ABC/gps watch market. (as I noted in an earlier post, I'm prety much done with Suunto watches after repeated reliability problems...)


----------



## munchyboy

Hi All,

Nice surprise from the postman this morning:

View attachment 814234


Firmware updated - time for a play !

View attachment 814237


----------



## cobrapa

munchyboy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Nice surprise from the postman this morning:
> 
> View attachment 814234
> 
> 
> Firmware updated - time for a play !
> 
> View attachment 814237


I'm not seeing your attachments. What did you get? Is this a shipped Fenix?


----------



## gaijin

cobrapa said:


> I'm not seeing your attachments. What did you get? Is this a shipped Fenix?


I can't see munchyboy's (How does someone join the forum in 2008 and have their first post today?????) attachments either, but my Fenix is in the UPS system and scheduled for delivery today!


----------



## munchyboy

<epic de-lurk !>

It sure is - I think my account pre-dates photos  - here's a link to them:

Image 07-09-2012 at 11.44.png | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


----------



## Chando

Anyone in the U.S. gotten theirs, yet?


----------



## GhostBear

munchyboy said:


> <epic de-lurk !>


Uber de-lurk. Don't suppose you got it from Cotswolds? I hope so, might have a little surprise when I get home too then.


----------



## munchyboy

I did - made even nicer with the 15% discount code they emailed me the day before I ordered it (which may or may not be good news to you). 

You can get tracking info from their site - they hadn't told me it had been despatched.


----------



## format

Where is the Garmin forum for the Fenix?

I searched in forums.garmin.com and found none. Have you found it yet?


----------



## GhostBear

munchyboy said:


> I did - made even nicer with the 15% discount code they emailed me the day before I ordered it (which may or may not be good news to you).


Oh I assure you a £52 discount was music to my ears! No Fenix today though for me :-( , I guess it'll be here on Monday - which is no major loss because I wouldn't have a chance to play until Monday anyway. Try not to gloat too much when you're showing it off.


----------



## or_watching

format said:


> Where is the Garmin forum for the Fenix?
> 
> I searched in forums.garmin.com and found none. Have you found it yet?


I don't think they've had forum for the Foretrex either, and this is in the same Wrist/Trail category. Seems like they oughta have one, but Garmin is sometimes mysterious.


----------



## format

With so many features and a user manual so poor the fenix must have a forum for the customers to discover what can be done with the fenix....Or, since it's Garmin, maybe not. 

Who knows what their obscure minds are planning. 

I guess they just leave the User Manual do DCRainmaker


----------



## or_watching

Nice to see this setting... 1/sec vs. 1/60sec is just too big a spread sometimes.

Changes made from version 2.30 to 2.40: 

Added ability to set UltraTrac update as fast as 15 second intervals. ( Battery life varies according to interval )


----------



## gaijin

Chando said:


> Anyone in the U.S. gotten theirs, yet?


My fenix has landed:



















Look for my reviews coming soon in the "Digital & ABC watches" Forum. 

HTH


----------



## cobrapa

gaijin said:


> My fenix has landed:


Nice early shipment. Where did you order from?


----------



## gaijin

cobrapa said:


> Nice early shipment. Where did you order from?


I ordered directly from Garmin on July 10, 2012.


----------



## cobrapa

Interesting... So they are shipping, that explains why their website now shows 'order processing of 5-8 weeks' instead of pre-order. They must have a lot of orders (or a really small allocation of web site order units to ship.)


----------



## Rigel

You don't need Fenix (or a shotgun) to kill the Ambit, it seems to be barely alive... If you just look at the WUS Suunto forum, and count the threads about Ambit issues, you'll see why.


----------



## cobrapa

Rigel said:


> You don't need Fenix (or a shotgun) to kill the Ambit, it seems to be barely alive... If you just look at the WUS Suunto forum, and count the threads about Ambit issues, you'll see why.


Haha, _this_ is the Suunto forum... and a bunch of us are Ambit owners. I rather like mine for many things.

We have yet to see the issues with the Fenix...


----------



## Lost-again

Rigel said:


> You don't need Fenix (or a shotgun) to kill the Ambit, it seems to be barely alive... If you just look at the WUS Suunto forum, and count the threads about Ambit issues, you'll see why.


Ah you miss the point. People post when they have an issue which happens with any product, many out there (like me) are very happy with the Ambit. I suspect you are miss reading this forum and not sensing the overall success of the Ambit!


----------



## martowl

Rigel said:


> You don't need Fenix (or a shotgun) to kill the Ambit, it seems to be barely alive... If you just look at the WUS Suunto forum, and count the threads about Ambit issues, you'll see why.


I'll give you a second opinion, I like my Ambit, quite happy with it. Is it perfect, no but getting there. If you like go count the issues on the Garmin forum with the 910XT. THREE firmware updates and many issues reported initially still not fixed including broken elevation readings for some, which was my issue. You will find many more issues with the 910XT than have been reported here for the Ambit,


----------



## theotherphil

I too have zero problems with my Ambit - works perfectly.


----------



## johngenx

According to FedEx, my fenix arrives today. Ordered from gpscentral.ca


----------



## FortySix&2

I have the Ambit and am mostly happy with it (and I'm pretty picky). The distance algorithm needs to be updated and I'm not thrilled with the fact that the dark setting is more indigo than black, but with the upcoming updates and Garmin's well-documented history of deploy and forget, I have a feeling the Ambit will get the nod in the end. Also, the Fenix, IMO, loses to the Ambit aesthetically bigtime. The Fenix looks more like a Casio. The Ambit looks like ... a Suunto. In any case, Garmin people will love the Fenix and Suunto people will love the Ambit--so everyone should be happy.


----------



## mars.ll

FortySix&2 said:


> I have the Ambit and am mostly happy with it (and I'm pretty picky). The distance algorithm needs to be updated and I'm not thrilled with the fact that the dark setting is more indigo than black, but with the upcoming updates and Garmin's well-documented history of deploy and forget, I have a feeling the Ambit will get the nod in the end. Also, the Fenix, IMO, loses to the Ambit aesthetically bigtime. The Fenix looks more like a Casio. The Ambit looks like ... a Suunto. In any case, Garmin people will love the Fenix and Suunto people will love the Ambit--so everyone should be happy.


I am also one of the users who chose Ambit because it looks much better (I actually think Core Black looks best. Well... exclude elementum since it's in different price range). When I thought about getting a GPS watch (the end of July) the Garmin fenix was already announced so I could wait just a bit longer. I have to say Garmin fenix actually looks good, even close/better than Garmin 610 (the best looking watch in Garmin before fenix), but Ambit still looks better.  But I think Garmin is improving in this category, which is good for all the customers.


----------



## johngenx

My fenix is charging as we speak. First impressions? Well, it isn't gorgeous. It does look durable and the buttons are big and easy to manipulate. The strap is quite long, which is nice, as I'm hoping to fit it over gloves on occasion. The documentation is lousy, no paper manual included. Oh well, some time fiddling with it will do the trick, I'm sure. Garmin has a long history of writing incomplete or cryptic manuals.

The Suunto is more attractive, but I do have a different dress watch, so I don't really rank esthetics very high. Personally, I need something that works. As an early adopter, I might be getting a little burned here, but Garmin has been making other stuff, and most of it very well, for some time, including gps watches.

One thing I do really like in the very brief time I've had it is the very large display and the bright and clear illumination.


----------



## pjc3

johngenx said:


> As an early adopter, I might be getting a little burned here,


But is is quite rewarding being one of the first to put it through the paces.....


----------



## gaijin

johngenx said:


> One thing I do really like in the very brief time I've had it is the very large display and the bright and clear illumination.


Roger that!


----------



## johngenx

So far I'm pretty impressed with the GPS accuracy. I've done a few out and back trail runs, and the tracks pretty much overlap exactly. This includes some heavy timber where my 305 had a little difficulty. Nice. The large display is awesome, easy for my old eyes to read on the go. The problem with these new devices is TOO MANY things! It's going to take me all fall just to figure it all out... ;-)


----------



## Time_Bandit_8

I picked up a Fenix a couple of days ago, running it through it's paces. One thing my "older" eyes are a little surprised at is how small a font Garmin chose to use on some screens - for example the Sunrise / Sunset data on the main / time screen (if you choose to display it). Even the day / date is relatively small and thin font-wise compared to the time - there was plently of real estate, but too much of it was given to the time and not enough to the other data. Those of you with younger, keener eyes probably cannot relate... but this is one aspect of the Fenix that is not stellar - chosen font size on some of the screens. Another example is the trending data on the bottom of the ABC screens - if you set the Sensors to Always On you will get this data displayed - and again, with the real estate available on the screen, the font is relatively small compared to the data above it... surprisingly small. Maybe the engineer who developed this part of the interface was young with keen eyesight LOL....

But the big question I have - IS THE BATTERY USER REPLACEABLE IF IT STOPS HOLDING A CHARGE? I saw this asked a couple of times but never answered... although with all the lengthy threads, I may have just missed it. I did find this 010-01040-00, Is The Battery User Replaceable that addresses it, but the answer is currently hard to find on most sites selling or discussing the Fenix. I am trying to verify the correct answer.

The Fenix has not withstood the test of time yet, and I am wondering how long / how many charge cycles I will get before the charge time diminishes and it discharges quicker. (happens to all batteries). The time it stays charged is already an aspect that has me wondering if I want to keep it.... but the answer to user replacability of the battery and what to expect on discharge rates might be a deal breaker for me. YMMV, all of our needs are different.

Thanks all... PS - I have been lurking on the GShock board for a few weeks now... great site here... saw this thread after I picked up my Fenix.

Cheers


----------



## Joakim Agren

Time_Bandit_8 said:


> I picked up a Fenix a couple of days ago, running it through it's paces. One thing my "older" eyes are a little surprised at is how small a font Garmin chose to use on some screens - for example the Sunrise / Sunset data on the main / time screen (if you choose to display it). Even the day / date is relatively small and thin font-wise compared to the time - there was plently of real estate, but too much of it was given to the time and not enough to the other data. Those of you with younger, keener eyes probably cannot relate... but this is one aspect of the Fenix that is not stellar - chosen font size on some of the screens. Another example is the trending data on the bottom of the ABC screens - if you set the Sensors to Always On you will get this data displayed - and again, with the real estate available on the screen, the font is relatively small compared to the data above it... surprisingly small. Maybe the engineer who developed this part of the interface was young with keen eyesight LOL....
> 
> But the big question I have - IS THE BATTERY USER REPLACEABLE IF IT STOPS HOLDING A CHARGE? I saw this asked a couple of times but never answered... although with all the lengthy threads, I may have just missed it. I did find this 010-01040-00, Is The Battery User Replaceable that addresses it, but the answer is currently hard to find on most sites selling or discussing the Fenix. I am trying to verify the correct answer.
> 
> The Fenix has not withstood the test of time yet, and I am wondering how long / how many charge cycles I will get before the charge time diminishes and it discharges quicker. (happens to all batteries). The time it stays charged is already an aspect that has me wondering if I want to keep it.... but the answer to user replacability of the battery and what to expect on discharge rates might be a deal breaker for me. YMMV, all of our needs are different.
> 
> Thanks all... PS - I have been lurking on the GShock board for a few weeks now... great site here... saw this thread after I picked up my Fenix.
> 
> Cheers


This is not an issue. But no it is not user replaceable not on the fenix nor the Ambit. These sort of watches gets used for 2-5 years or so and the battery will most likely last the entire life time of the watch. I have an Suunto X10 that is now 4 years old and I have noticed that the duration of the 300mAh Li-ion battery is slightly less then when it was new. But it is perhaps a reduction of only 5% or so.


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## backcountry

Here is a question that has been gnawing at me for a little.The Suunto Ambit will be getting full ANT+ technology in the next November 2.0 firmwareupdate which they say will be compatible with an array of ANT+ equipped devicesnot just the "Suunto ANT" system they seem to be running currently. When thathappens are all ANT+ devices compatible with one another? I'm not too tech savvyin relation to cross platform compatibility and whatnot. In other words will theAmbit be compatible with something like say a Garmin Tempe unit? For those thatunfamiliar the "Tempe" is Garmin's external sensor pod for the Fenix which alsoruns on ANT+ technology? I did some research and it seems like they both followthe same frequency and such? Come tothink of it the Tempe actually looks almost identical to Suunto Foot Pot.


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## ifarlow

Not necessarily. I would expect that the Ambit will be compatible with ANT+ foot pods (Garmin, Timex, Suunto, etc.) and ANT+ bike sensors (again from Garmin, Timex, Wahoo, etc.). I doubt that the Ambit will be compatible with ANT+ power sensors or ANT+ temperature sensors (Tempe), or even ANT+ geocache sensors (Chirp). Being ANT+ compliant is only half the battle. The other half is software that knows how to communicate with and interpret the data stream from the ANT+ device in question.

On a side note: all of these sensors come from only a handful of manufacturers. That's why the Suunto foot pod looks like the Garmin foot pod that looks like the Timex foot pod. That's also why the Tempe looks like the food pods... it uses the same casing (but different guts).


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## Guace

Joakim Agren said:


> This is not an issue. But no it is not user replaceable not on the fenix nor the Ambit. These sort of watches gets used for 2-5 years or so and the battery will most likely last the entire life time of the watch. I have an Suunto X10 that is now 4 years old and I have noticed that the duration of the 300mAh Li-ion battery is slightly less then when it was new. But it is perhaps a reduction of only 5% or so.


Hello,

I have had a Garmin Forerunner 405 for the last 3 years and after 600 to 700 charge cycles the battery is dead (it works 10 min and then goes off). Garmin proposed to replace the watch with a Forerunner 410 for 150€. I was thinking of buying one of these two watches (Fenix or Ambit) but if the batteries are not replacable or only available for a third of the price of the watch, it's a no go for me!


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## RobGrinter

Guace said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have had a Garmin Forerunner 405 for the last 3 years and after 600 to 700 charge cycles the battery is dead (it works 10 min and then goes off). Garmin proposed to replace the watch with a Forerunner 410 for 150€. I was thinking of buying one of these two watches (Fenix or Ambit) but if the batteries are not replacable or only available for a third of the price of the watch, it's a no go for me!


Yes, the usual problem.

- I want my Electronic items made in Europe
- built like a German tank, able withstand the forces of a World Trade Tower collapse
- last longer than a Gallopogos Turtle and allow me to pass it on to my childrens children.
- be able to exchange parts like its a Ford
- be able to buy these parts easily at my local K-Mart store at say change from a fiver !
- buy the unit originally online from a country I dont speak the language of and have my local store provide full support without a quibble.

For this, I want to pay the price indicative of it being made in China or Tiawan.

Guace, get over it and buy a new one ! (or as you say, go without !)


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## Guace

RobGrinter said:


> Yes, the usual problem.
> 
> - I want my Electronic items made in Europe
> - built like a German tank, able withstand the forces of a World Trade Tower collapse
> - last longer than a Gallopogos Turtle and allow me to pass it on to my childrens children.
> - be able to exchange parts like its a Ford
> - be able to buy these parts easily at my local K-Mart store at say change from a fiver !
> - buy the unit originally online from a country I dont speak the language of and have my local store provide full support without a quibble.


Well that's how things were before some guys at Goldmann Sachs decided it should be different...
Have a look at this: The Light Bulb Conspiracy (2010) - IMDb

Joke appart, if you send your watch to Suunto, they will replace the battery for a fee. For me it's a better approach...

Guace


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## guzzio

Suunto Vector oldie for heavy duty activities, Suunto Core for outdoor trips ... mostly watersport (taking the boat out and go snorkeling). I really need a 'Storm Alarm' and the Core warned me everytime bad weather is comming up. The Garmin Fenix plays in my head but: is there a storm alarm ??? Thanks. 
Brrr ... it's so cold in Belgium. :-(


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## kmseteam

There's been some discussion about prices. Many say the Ambit is more expensive compared to Fenix. Here at us I've noted it's the other way around: Ambit with HR strap is as expensive as Fenix without a strap and Fenix performer bundle is a hundred euros more expensive compared to Ambit HR.


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## SavageSS

Need to shop around, I got my Ambit and heart Rate strap for $400 AUD delivered.

Friend has the Fenix, and has had numerous issues. He's currently having a GPS lock issue. Went for a few runs in the last couple of weeks, it would be lucky if his Fenix could find a GPS signal, even after the run. While the Ambit would take less than 20 seconds each time!


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