# An affront to minimalism, or my conceptual watch



## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

Welp, hi WUS.
Can't say I'm not nervous to share this here as the community can be pretty critical. But I've been told I've got at least a bit of something going on after showing some friends and people a few conceptual watch renderings I've done in the last year.
Personally, I'll throw it out there that I'm just making a design that's to my own taste and/or trying out some idea that's badgering me, and I don't care for minimalism - lovers of bauhaus watches, for example, please look away now.

The latest one I've done is a 38mm diver and a relatively normal one by my standards and dimensioned somewhat to potentially fit a Selitta movement, as, yes, I've gotten the suggestion of trying to make my own watches, which I have no immediate delusions of attempting due to having some idea of the things involved. But with that thought in mind, I figured, perhaps it'd be time to try to share with a wider audience and get feedback or ideas.
So, meet my most recent, unnamed diver.









The main thing I wanted to try here was outlined cardinal indices to hide a date window while also meeting ISO-6425 requirements (visually) thus, it also has a more typical-of-divers styling than my previous things, but with a few other quirks such as the different edge to the 0-15 section of the bezel and a central section with a wave pattern.
At this point in time I of course feel like I need to change things, like I might want to redesign the hands and I need to reshape the crownguards to be circular around the crown, which itself I feel could do with a rework. The lugs are also probably too long and I want to shrink the 16-59 bezel dots.

But, otherwise, I'm taking the plunge (no pun intended) here to see if I might really have a shot at this. 
And if I were to start a micro, what would I bring to the table, right? At this point, probably wild amounts of multicolor lume would be the first thing I'd say...


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## PeterK. (Jan 4, 2014)

Make hour hand bit longer and case 40 mm and you have a winner in my opinion .


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

PeterK. said:


> Make hour hand bit longer and case 40 mm and you have a winner in my opinion .


Thanks. The hour hand length is sized to the edge of the larger quarter indices but I can't help finding it looks too short next to a minor indice. I'd either extend it or maybe add a pointy end (ala a Mercedes hand).
As for the mild upsize, I see your point. Though of course to personal taste I've been looking for more sub-40 divers, hence the smaller size. Also, the SW200 date window is further inwards than I thought, making a wider diameter harder to fit the date window into an index marker.
That said, adding an extra 1mm between the four major markers and the minute chapter ring to size up to 40mm would certainly not affect things and probably improve it as I felt I made said gap too small!


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

Other than the mercedes hour hand, which is jarring and needs to be replaced, it looks very interesting.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

yankeexpress said:


> Other than the mercedes hour hand, which is jarring and needs to be replaced, it looks very interesting.


Do you have a suggestion for the hand style? At the moment I'm thinking of using a segmented arrow.


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## wtma (Jul 26, 2014)

Looking good, I really like it. Love how you incorporate the date window inside the 6 o'clock marker.
However I'd also concern about the hands, all three of them. The hour and minute hands are too thin they all look like second hand. Not a fan also of the hexagonal tail of the second hand there, too distracting imho. I'm not sure what type of hands will go with the overall aesthetic, but I think a paddle or ploprof hands set might worth a try.


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## andrea__81 (Jul 27, 2016)

Overall, very nice!
Love your weird logo and how it works as counterbalance on the seconds.
The tips of hour and minutes are not much to my taste and the hands should probably be thicker.
The 15 minutes arc on the bezel is imho not much highlighted, if anything the dots on the rest of the bezel are more visible than the dashes! I would also give a different color to the first 15 minutes. There, another step away from minimalism 

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Noro (Jun 16, 2018)

I like the design a lot. Though the lugs are far too long IMO, which I think not only detracts from the aesthetic in itself but also negates the purpose of the smaller 38mm size, as the lug to lug looks to be near 50? If so, that is long for even a 40mm watch. When people are creating smaller watches they often focus on the wrong dimension- it matters little if you build a 38 or 40 if you end up making the lug-to-lug no shorter than that of your average 42mm watch, and thus not fitting those seeking or requiring a smaller watch anyway.

Other than that I like it a lot, interesting and original. And you have some real talent on the design work and renders btw.

If the lug to lug is made no more than 46/47 (either a 38 or 40 diameter), and you used a 9015 or STP1-11 instead, I would buy it today. I just do not like the Sellita. And ETA's are over priced of course.



yankeexpress said:


> Other than the mercedes hour hand, which is jarring and needs to be replaced, it looks very interesting.


I was under the impression it was a cube, it looks like a cube to me, to go along with the rest of the geometric shapes.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

wtma said:


> Looking good, I really like it. Love how you incorporate the date window inside the 6 o'clock marker.
> However I'd also concern about the hands, all three of them. The hour and minute hands are too thin they all look like second hand. Not a fan also of the hexagonal tail of the second hand there, too distracting imho. I'm not sure what type of hands will go with the overall aesthetic, but I think a paddle or ploprof hands set might worth a try.


Thanks!
By ploprof, do you mean the Omega Ploprof?








The hexagonal tail is a logo counter-balance, but I think I made it too large proportionately in this instance.
I do also want to do something about the minute hand, I was trying to keep its arm slim and made the hand an equilateral triangle to match the indexes, but the final result looks strange as the head is too small.



andrea__81 said:


> Overall, very nice!
> Love your weird logo and how it works as counterbalance on the seconds.
> The tips of hour and minutes are not much to my taste and the hands should probably be thicker.
> The 15 minutes arc on the bezel is imho not much highlighted, if anything the dots on the rest of the bezel are more visible than the dashes! I would also give a different color to the first 15 minutes. There, another step away from minimalism


Thanks!
The counterbalance is a recurring item for me, though as above I think I made it too large this time. That said, in raw millimeters it is still very small, to the point that I'm not sure if it could be lumed in practical terms.
It does also intend to invoke the lumed tail of some Seikos which do not have the lume on the hand end. 
As for the bezel, I'm probably going to halve the size of the dots and thicken the stripes for the 15 minute hashes.



Noro said:


> I like the design a lot. Though the lugs are far too long IMO, which I think not only detracts from the aesthetic in itself but also negates the purpose of the smaller 38mm size, as the lug to lug looks to be near 50? If so, that is long for even a 40mm watch. When people are creating smaller watches they often focus on the wrong dimension- it matters little if you build a 38 or 40 if you end up making the lug-to-lug no shorter than that of your average 42mm watch, and thus not fitting those seeking or requiring a smaller watch anyway.
> 
> Other than that I like it a lot, interesting and original. And you have some real talent on the design work and renders btw.
> 
> ...


The lug to lug is something close to 50mm I think, because I absent mindedly keyed in the wrong lengths when drawing them. I do want to cut them down significantly to around 45-47, which together with the curling should make for a compact watch. Usually I don't end up with such disproportionate lugs.
I like the idea of using a Miyota 9015 as well, though for this instance I did intend to have a Swiss Made label for kicks. A previous one I did was meant to have a Miyota 9039, in fact. The STP-11 on the other hand, if I recall, that's a ETA-2824 replacement, right?


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## Noro (Jun 16, 2018)

Karriope said:


> The lug to lug is something close to 50mm I think, because I absent mindedly keyed in the wrong lengths when drawing them. I do want to cut them down significantly to around 45-47, which together with the curling should make for a compact watch. Usually I don't end up with such disproportionate lugs. I like the idea of using a Miyota 9015 as well, though for this instance I did intend to have a Swiss Made label for kicks. A previous one I did was meant to have a Miyota 9039, in fact. The STP-11 on the other hand, if I recall, that's a ETA-2824 replacement, right?


The STP1-11 is a dimensional clone of the 2824, meaning it is a drop in replacement yes, but it's not an exact clone part for part- I would argue it's better in a few ways. Rather than repeat it all here, this is a good explanation: https://www.noduswatches.com/blog/stp-1-11-vs-eta-2824


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

Noro said:


> The STP1-11 is a dimensional clone of the 2824, meaning it is a drop in replacement yes, but it's not an exact clone part for part- I would argue it's better in a few ways. Rather than repeat it all here, this is a good explanation: https://www.noduswatches.com/blog/stp-1-11-vs-eta-2824


I see. I do believe the STP hits a fairer pricepoint, yes?
That said, I'm not actually sure how much a watch like this would cost if it were made, especially if I did try to have it manufactured in DLC-coated titanium (which I expect to be costly). At this point I'm not sure what would be a safe pricepoint to target, too.

If you guys like where this one gone, should I show my other ones?


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## kalburnfall (Feb 18, 2010)

Nice unique case design. Integrated strap would be cool not necessary though. Maybe the lugs could curve down, it might be too flat to be comfortable. Feature-wise, the bezel dots seem too large compared with the numbers. Cool chapter ring, maybe a different color. Equilateral triangle markers look odd to me, especially with the keystone markers. Maybe fill them all in and make the triangles into circles, rectangles, or skinny keystones. Nice dial text. Not sure about the thing in the center or the 3D cube design on the second and hour hands. Regarding the date window, appreciate the attempt to integrate it but it ends up looking cluttered like it was forced in. Cool lume.


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## skyefalcon6 (Apr 10, 2015)

I like that it doesn't look like everything else out there. Well done.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

kalburnfall said:


> Nice unique case design. Integrated strap would be cool not necessary though. Maybe the lugs could curve down, it might be too flat to be comfortable. Feature-wise, the bezel dots seem too large compared with the numbers. Cool chapter ring, maybe a different color. Equilateral triangle markers look odd to me, especially with the keystone markers. Maybe fill them all in and make the triangles into circles, rectangles, or skinny keystones. Nice dial text. Not sure about the thing in the center or the 3D cube design on the second and hour hands. Regarding the date window, appreciate the attempt to integrate it but it ends up looking cluttered like it was forced in. Cool lume.


Thanks for the feedback. I considered making the triangle markers isoceles, but at the time I felt I preferred equilateral... as for making them other shapes, maybe the skinny keystones? I personally like the sharp contrast between the cardinal marks and the minor indices, however. 
I've not posted it yet but I've shortened the lugs while retaining a downward curvature. Strapwise, I would imagine it would fit a folding clasp with rubber or a bracelet.
As for the date integration, I'm finding it interesting that this aspect is receiving different views from different people.



skyefalcon6 said:


> I like that it doesn't look like everything else out there. Well done.


Thanks! I'm fond of 'unique' watches that look unusual, so I do like to try to get a distinct look.


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## Hose A (Jun 4, 2018)

I think it looks great, lets see the others.


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## brandon\ (Aug 23, 2010)

Wow. Well done. I like it!

My only critique is the logo. First, there's too much of it - hour hand, seconds hand, 12:00 dial, crown. Too much. And second, it's too reminiscent of the old Chrysler logo.

Other than that, you have my attention.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

Sorry that I'm not responding here that quickly guys, but I appreciate the reactions so far.



brandon\ said:


> Wow. Well done. I like it!
> 
> My only critique is the logo. First, there's too much of it - hour hand, seconds hand, 12:00 dial, crown. Too much. And second, it's too reminiscent of the old Chrysler logo.
> 
> Other than that, you have my attention.


Um, well, ahahaha. It's actually a highly simplified version of a personal graphic I have, and resembling the old Chrysler pentastar is ... well, a coincidence - I'd never seen that at the time. Having a logo on the crown and dial is typical, hiding it in the seconds counterbalance is less so, but at some point I began to really appreciate that detail in watches such as Balls and Zeniths. It's not actually in the hour hand - the hour hand is a more geometric/cubified 'Mercedes' hand, as I intended to sort of have the clear distinction between the hour and minute hands that is associated with ISO compliance and allegedly a reason for why the Mercedes hand as we know it exists. As it happens it being hexagon shaped was a coincidence that I just stuck with.
I'm actually sorta considering making it into a snowflake-esque hand instead.

Other than that I know I had a set of redesigned hands in mind, but being busy and not able to act on it I seem to have forgotten what they were... Ugh.



Hose A said:


> I think it looks great, lets see the others.


Okay, to start with, perhaps I'll go in the other direction and show the most minimalist one I did, which is intended to be a dress watch, also of 38mm.








The lines in the dial are meant to be engravings for texture and the lume is intended to be a mix of C3 and White Line luminova. Movement wise, I don't think I chose one in particular.
Obviously, the lugs are again too long and need to be cut to get a more proportionate LTL of, say, 46. I also want to shrink the text, which I feel is too large proportionately, but they are already just 1mm which is pretty small IRL. I also personally feel the crown should be shrunk, but at the same time I've seen some 'classy' type or dress watches with large crowns.


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## andrea__81 (Jul 27, 2016)

I like this one as well. You're good at it. 
For symmetry purposes, I think that the strip at 6 should be lumed green.

Oh and BTW your logo to me looks like a stylized croissant. And that's a positive for me.


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## Ajwood (Aug 6, 2018)

The logo in triplicate on the dial is a bit repetitious. What if you removed the one on the hour hand, and then made the one on the counterbalance overlap the dial logo when the seconds hit 30. Oak & Oscar did something similar that worked really well in my opinion.









On the plus side, I really like the repetition of the date window frame in the hour 3 and 9 indices.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

andrea__81 said:


> I like this one as well. You're good at it.
> For symmetry purposes, I think that the strip at 6 should be lumed green.
> 
> Oh and BTW your logo to me looks like a stylized croissant. And that's a positive for me.
> View attachment 13401359


The strip at 6 is actually the second hand. The 6 marker is the same as the 3 and 9, a C3-lume triangle.



Ajwood said:


> The logo in triplicate on the dial is a bit repetitious. What if you removed the one on the hour hand, and then made the one on the counterbalance overlap the dial logo when the seconds hit 30. Oak & Oscar did something similar that worked really well in my opinion.
> 
> View attachment 13401869
> 
> On the plus side, I really like the repetition of the date window frame in the hour 3 and 9 indices.


The hour hand one is not intended as an echo of the logo, again, it's a cubified Mercedes hand.
Your idea about lining up the counterbalance with the applique logo is clever, I'll look into it as I'm editing this design, though I've lacked the time to do so. I've already shortened the lugs and had a handset in mind, but I seem to have completely forgotten what they were...
I do think though that because my counterbalance is more intricate than the one in your example, it seems like it might be too large or too long to be discreet.


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## andrea__81 (Jul 27, 2016)

Karriope said:


> The strip at 6 is actually the second hand. The 6 marker is the same as the 3 and 9, a C3-lume triangle.


Oh... right.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

andrea__81 said:


> Oh... right.


it's probably my fault for being lazy and just putting the second hand at exact 6 instead of an angle.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

Hi again guys, besides searching for an Ananta I've managed to make up something else in the meantime. I haven't finished my rework of this ISO-style diver originally used to start this thread, but here's what I've been working on:

If anyone's played Metro 2033 back in the day and saw the replica watch that came in the collectors' edition and thought it was bad...








Yes, I'm trying to make my own version of the Metro 2033 watch. It's not exact, yet close. My main noticeable tweaks to the dial are extra hash lines in the timer segments and an emphatic 6'o'clock hash. I considered using a triangle at 6', as well.
No, it's not complete (hence the not-quite-done lugs)
Now of course, I know what you're thinking, the bezel looks like a Vostok's, apart from that weird 0-15 section that matches the timer. And frankly, no, I do not know how the timer would work in real life either, but I'm imagining a bezel-operated egg-timer style mechanism, but I have my doubts that would be possible to make in a wristwatch...
At any rate, more conceptual than intended for production!

Secondly, since I'm toying with the idea of getting something produced, I thought of trying something simpler and possibly easier to manufacture. It's based on a watch I actually own so most of the core aesthetics are such. It's intended as a simple, elegant, vintage-esque nautical sport watch to be made out of steel with a brushed finish. A desk-diver, if you will. Target dimensions are currently 37.5mm and about 10mm thick with a Miyota 9039 (don't know how technically feasible that is). A high depth rating is not a priority either and the lume is relatively conservative, coming from me.
















Yes, I know, the crown is not there yet. I'm intending to make a smallish one with simple guards.
For now I'd like feedback on the dial, hands and bezel design. Save for the rehaut and spearhead seconds, the design is very similar to the inspiration.
I'm considering replacing the seconds hand with a syringe or circular (Rolex style) tip. Currently it's Milsub-esque, not that that's bad.
I'm also really unsure what to do with the 12'o'clock marker to make it stand out, without...making it too different.

Tentative specifications would be:
Case dia: 37.5mm, ~39mm including crown, <10mm thickness (not including crystal)
Case, lug to lug: 45mm
Case material: 316L, fine brushed finish
Caseback: Exhibition
Dial: Ice white with luminous chapter dots, metal applique stick indices (double-stick 12-3-6-9)
Bezel: unidirectional 120 click, coarse circular brushed steel with engraved timer markings and 0 BGW9 Luminova stripe
Lume: C3 Luminova (chapter dots), BGW9 Luminova (hidden cardinal lume)
Crystal: Box sapphire or domed sapphire
Movement: Miyota 9039 (28,800vph, hackable, no date)
Hands: Arrow hour & pointed stick minute, spearhead seconds


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

More or less decided I'm finished with the "desk diver". I kinda like the idea of making it sterile, but at any rate, I have renderings.
Of course, if produced, I'd go for a customized rotor.
Again, this is meant to be a "classic inspired" sport watch, though I doubt it looks full retro...









Dimensions have been tweaked:
Case diameter: 37.5mm
Case lug to lug: 45mm
Case width including crown: ~39.5mm
Case thickness including caseback: ~10.5mm
Overall thickness including box sapphire protrusion: 10.6mm

Specifications remain the same:
Case material: 316L, fine brushed finish, polished bezel edge
Caseback: Exhibition
Dial: Ice white with luminous chapter dots, metal applique stick indices (double-stick 12-3-6-9)
Bezel: unidirectional 120 click, coarse circular brushed steel with engraved timer markings and 0 BGW9 Luminova stripe
Lume: C3 Luminova (chapter dots), BGW9 Luminova (hidden cardinal lume)
Crystal: Box sapphire
Movement: Miyota 9039 (28,800vph, hackable, no date)
Hands: Arrow hour & pointed stick minute, spearhead seconds

I'd like to get feedback on this one.


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## rr82 (Jan 2, 2020)

Karriope said:


> Welp, hi WUS.
> Can't say I'm not nervous to share this here as the community can be pretty critical. But I've been told I've got at least a bit of something going on after showing some friends and people a few conceptual watch renderings I've done in the last year.
> Personally, I'll throw it out there that I'm just making a design that's to my own taste and/or trying out some idea that's badgering me, and I don't care for minimalism - lovers of bauhaus watches, for example, please look away now.
> 
> ...


It looks good, maybe smaller markers for the hours. The lume looks great.


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