# New Trackback in 1.5.14 for Ambit2



## martowl

Tried this today. It is pretty nifty and does not simply show your track but inserts POIs that were not recorded, directing you to each one in succession. I deliberately went offtrack and missed a POI, the Trackback figured this out and directed me to the next ( earlier) point. This is going to be very useful for me!

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## pjc3

This was probably the most oft quoted failing of the Ambit. Although I will rarely use it myself, it does seem well implemented.


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## kmseteam

Track back navigation is still as crow flies from point to point, not as exact following of track, so some users still won't be happy. But I am.


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## briefer

I am not. I wanted that feature in my Ambit


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## martowl

kmseteam said:


> Track back navigation is still as crow flies from point to point, not as exact following of track, so some users still won't be happy. But I am.


No, this is incorrect there are two types of back navigation and one calculates the route back, inserts points and directs you exactly along the path that you already recorded. There is still a find back option that is as the crow flies. This new TrackBack option is available under Navigation when you have an exercise running. As I stated above it is well implemented.


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## JoggWithoutDog

briefer said:


> I am not. I wanted that feature in my Ambit


Me too. Ambit1 user ... why can't, for example, the new zoom 200m not given to the Ambit1 ...
Obviously because some of the Ambit1 users could even buy the Ambit2 ... not for me:rodekaart
JoggWithoutDog


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## santoshrane

Hey martowl...I tried it too today. Went one way stopped my training and then on the way back half way I selected navigation and chose the end point. . It took me road by road

Santosh Rane
Suunto Ambit 2
GNote 2
Samsung NX300
Merida TFS100


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## kmseteam

martowl said:


> No, this is incorrect there are two types of back navigation and one calculates the route back, _inserts points_ and directs you exactly along the path that you already recorded. There is still a find back option that is as the crow flies. This new TrackBack option is available under Navigation when you have an exercise running. As I stated above it is well implemented.


 You also said: "does not simply show your track but inserts POIs that were not recorded, directing you to each one in succession" And I said: "Track back navigation is still as crow flies from point to point", that is, from POI to POI. I don't see the difference between the claims.


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## kmseteam

Went out trying the trackback navigation again and noted I need to clarify myself: there are two different displays in navigation, the one that shows the route and your position in relation to the route, and the one that displays the distance and the bearing. The first one, with its scaling, is not much of a use if you try to locate a trail in the bushes, and the latter one indicates only the distance to the target and the arrows indicate only left or right, it doesn't indicate where to go to get to the route. That's how Ambit's navigation has always been, and that latter one is what I mean by saying as the crow flies. My claim was not incorrect.


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## bruceames

kmseteam said:


> ..there are two different displays in navigation, the one that shows the route and your position in relation to the route, and the one that displays the distance and the bearing.* The first one, with its scaling, is not much of a use if you try to locate a trail in the bushes*, and the latter one indicates only the distance to the target and the arrows indicate only left or right, it doesn't indicate where to go to get to the route. That's how Ambit's navigation has always been, and that latter one is what I mean by saying as the crow flies. My claim was not incorrect.


So there is no zoom feature in Trackback? That would limit it's appeal if you were trying to stay on a biggish route with lots of turns, since the Ambit2 will want to show the whole route on its tiny display.


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## kmseteam

There is, but the smallest one I managed to get was 200 meters.


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## bruceames

Where do you access the zoom feature? I tried all the buttons, so it must be buried somewhere.


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## pjc3

bruceames said:


> Where do you access the zoom feature? I tried all the buttons, so it must be buried somewhere.


View button while in navigation screen.


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## bruceames

pjc3 said:


> View button while in navigation screen.


Ok, I see. Hey it's not super zoom but it's certainly good enough 99.9% of the time in finding/tracking a trail/track. If a trail is concealed by bushes, then one can always walk parallel until it's not.

This totally looks like a true trackback feature. I don't know what else you would need (other than mommy holding your hand) other than the breadcrumb track and the compass arrow following it. If there is a GPS device which will give you trackpoint by trackpoint turn directions, I'm not aware of it and certainly don't need it.



> kmseteam said:
> 
> 
> 
> The first one, with its scaling, is not much of a use if you try to locate a trail in the bushes,
> 
> 
> 
> You must not have much practice in following faint trails, and if it's off trail you're going just use the compass feature to follow the track. You don't need turn-by-turn directions when all the information you need is on the display. I like turn-by-turn directions though when I'm driving, but that's because I don't have to look at the display.
Click to expand...


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## kmseteam

bruceames said:


> Ok, I see. Hey it's not super zoom but it's certainly good enough 99.9% of the time in finding/tracking a trail/track. If a trail is concealed by bushes, then one can always walk parallel until it's not.
> 
> This totally looks like a true trackback feature. I don't know what else you would need (other than mommy holding your hand) other than the breadcrumb track and the compass arrow following it. If there is a GPS device which will give you trackpoint by trackpoint turn directions, I'm not aware of it and certainly don't need it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must not have much practice in following faint trails, and if it's off trail you're going just use the compass feature to follow the track. You don't need turn-by-turn directions when all the information you need is on the display. I like turn-by-turn directions though when I'm driving, but that's because I don't have to look at the display.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, why not go and play "did I pass that already" with almost obsolete trails, or even better, go geocaching with this scaling. How about when the trail really faints, when you needed the help the most... Well that's theoretical. I never said I needed advice in how to do orienteering or find my trails. Nor did I ask for estimation about my experience. What I was claiming was 1. the navigation still goes as the crow flies in the distance/direction mode and 2. the picture is of a largerish scale. And I never said I wasn't happy with the Ambit, on the contrary. Today I'm going geocaching and enjoying the precision of the Ambit's gps!
Click to expand...


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## bruceames

kmseteam said:


> bruceames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, why not go and play "did I pass that already" with almost obsolete trails, or even better, go geocaching with this scaling. How about when the trail really faints, when you needed the help the most... Well that's theoretical. I never said I needed advice in how to do orienteering or find my trails. Nor did I ask for estimation about my experience. What I was claiming was 1. the navigation still goes as the crow flies in the distance/direction mode and 2. the picture is of a largerish scale. And I never said I wasn't happy with the Ambit, on the contrary. Today I'm going geocaching and enjoying the precision of the Ambit's gps!
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry no offense was intended. I just understood your post to mean it wasn't much use to find very faint or hidden trails, but since trails are never really hidden for long you can just follow the track on the GPS until it reveals itself. Perhaps you meant it was of little use finding a geocache in the bushes?
> 
> In any case, I agree the scale could be bigger and I would always bring along a handheld GPS for any navigational purposes I may need. I really don't consider the Ambit2 a replacement for traditional handhelds for that purpose.
Click to expand...


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## kmseteam

It's like, with that scale it's not very useful to look at it and make guesses about how close to the trail you are, if there's 20 or five meters until reaching a track. But I have found my tracks and trails long before Ambits or even any gps'es (I still do) and in totally unfamiliar terrain I wouldn't count my orienteering only on a watch or any other gps. Well, to be exact, that's actually forbidden in Ambit's manual!  In this thread, first I was irritated by that Martowl's almighty "you don't seem to be knowing anything, but I know" -approach and it made me give poorly explicated statements.


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## bruceames

Yeah, hopefully Suunto adds another zoom level on the next update. It certainly would be useful.

I'm still trying to find a niche with the Ambit2. It seems to do about everything, but so far nothing better than what my other devices already do. As far as hiking, the Garmin 62sc will always be with me. It's the more accurate GPS device I have and I like taking pics with it and getting a "pic trail" (so easy to whip it out from my chest pouch and snap landmarks and scenery as I go). The Suunto Trackpod also is a must as it records a very accurate track as well, as I can put it where it always gets a clear view of the sky. Finally the T6 goes as well, because I get fewer HR dropouts. Also I sync the T6 to the Trackpod and get speed/distance data from it. However that effect is lessened by having the Ambit2 strapped on my chest rather than on my wrist. So right now the ambit is kinda like an extra, not really giving me anything I don't get from something else. But it is nice getting 3 sets of data.


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## paul1928

bruceames said:


> Yeah, hopefully Suunto adds another zoom level on the next update. It certainly would be useful.
> 
> I'm still trying to find a niche with the Ambit2. It seems to do about everything, but so far nothing better than what my other devices already do. As far as hiking, the Garmin 62sc will always be with me. It's the more accurate GPS device I have and I like taking pics with it and getting a "pic trail" (so easy to whip it out from my chest pouch and snap landmarks and scenery as I go). The Suunto Trackpod also is a must as it records a very accurate track as well, as I can put it where it always gets a clear view of the sky. Finally the T6 goes as well, because I get fewer HR dropouts. Also I sync the T6 to the Trackpod and get speed/distance data from it. However that effect is lessened by having the Ambit2 strapped on my chest rather than on my wrist. So right now the ambit is kinda like an extra, not really giving me anything I don't get from something else. But it is nice getting 3 sets of data.


You forgot to pack the ....... sink.  It sounds like the most redundant item here is the Ambit?


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## bruceames

paul1928 said:


> You forgot to pack the ....... sink.  It sounds like the most redundant item here is the Ambit?


It would be, except that I'm using the Garmin for HR instead of the T6. So the Ambit is the only device which is recording R-R data. I had to choose between the Garmin 62sc and the T6 for HR recording because I can only wear one HR belt and until Suunto makes an Ant+ belt then I'll have to choose. The choice really is easy though. The Garmin will store HR and Temp data every 1 sec (for up to 150 hours or so before it runs out of memory) and it's always been a dream of mine to have position, HR and Temp data recorded on one device every second. The R-R data on a hike isn't really important anyway.

I've always thought I was a little crazy for bringing along so many devices but this year I've gone overboard, lol. It's because I haven't been buying any new watches or GPS for several years, and now that I realize that GPS reception has improved so much over my Garmin 76s, It's like I have an embarrassment of riches. I never would have thought that the Ambit2 would give me the third best track on my hikes, but that will be the case as the Trackpod and Garmin do a better job (the Trackpod by virtue of its mounting position of course). Oh, I forgot to mention, I also lug along the Kestrel 4000 and record data with that every 30 seconds. 

Edit: Just remembered that the Ambit2 does provide one crucial piece of information that the other devices can't compare to: total ascent/descent. With FusedAlti, both the Ambit2 and the Garmin read almost exactly the same current altitude. However the Garmin will give you ridiculously high total ascent/data because the elevation data changes only every foot (instead of every 3 feet with the Ambit and T6), so the changes are too sensitive to be of any use in terms of ascent/descent. Plus, during breaks, the Garmin will keep fluctuating and adding to the total, while the Ambit2 figures out that I've stopped and doesn't record trackpoints or changes in elevation. It is very accurate (the T6, since it was only barometer-based, would always read low, losing 50-100 of elevation for every 1000 gained), and for that reason alone it earns its place on my hikes. But really, it's overkill for me and for anyone who doesn't do triathlons. I wish I had the Ambit2 with me back in the day when I did even longer hikes, just so I would know what the total vert was.


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## mnaranjo

hope that track-back function could be implemented some day in the ambit 1
That and a closser zoom level in the navigation are the only things I actually miss


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## pjc3

mnaranjo said:


> hope that track-back function could be implemented some day in the ambit 1


Could be? maybe...
Will be? Buckley's....


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## martowl

kmseteam said:


> bruceames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I see. Hey it's not super zoom but it's certainly good enough 99.9% of the time in finding/tracking a trail/track. If a trail is concealed by bushes, then one can always walk parallel until it's not.
> 
> This totally looks like a true trackback feature. I don't know what else you would need (other than mommy holding your hand) other than the breadcrumb track and the compass arrow following it. If there is a GPS device which will give you trackpoint by trackpoint turn directions, I'm not aware of it and certainly don't need it.
> 
> Sure, why not go and play "did I pass that already" with almost obsolete trails, or even better, go geocaching with this scaling. How about when the trail really faints, when you needed the help the most... Well that's theoretical. I never said I needed advice in how to do orienteering or find my trails. Nor did I ask for estimation about my experience. What I was claiming was 1. the navigation still goes as the crow flies in the distance/direction mode and 2. the picture is of a largerish scale. And I never said I wasn't happy with the Ambit, on the contrary. Today I'm going geocaching and enjoying the precision of the Ambit's gps!
> 
> 
> 
> To clear this up, here is how I used the TrackBack feature and it is a true track back
> 1. Started a move with NO navigation features, I ran a little under 3 miles to my 1/2 way point
> 
> 2. Started Navigation and selected Trackback, the watch screen stated "calculating route" and required several seconds before a breadcrumb route with POIs was shown (I did not have Navigation enabled on the route). I have no idea how the watch calculated POIs but there were 4 in that distance + the start point for a total of 5
> 
> 3. I started back the way I came, on the zoom screen I could clearly see I was on track.
> 
> 4. I deliberately went off track for one of the POIs to see what the Ambit2 would do
> 
> 5. The directions skipped the POI I missed and continued to directing me toward the next POI and finally to my beginning point.
> 
> This is exactly the feature I and many others need, a true Trackback. I venture off trail in nearly every high mountain run I go on. Many times I am going where I have never been. With this feature, which can be enabled on the fly, I will consult a handheld GPS far less often and be faster and more efficient especially when weather is preventing me from seeing where I came from. I have to agree that this is about as good as Trackback can get with a wrist worn device. I do carry a GPS (actually an iPhone as I find it far better than my Garmin Oregon 450) and use it when I need it. With this feature, I will need it less
Click to expand...


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## kmseteam

martowl said:


> The directions skipped the POI I missed and continued to directing me toward the next POI and finally to my beginning point.


In other words: it directed you to the next POI as the crow flies.


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## bruceames

kmseteam said:


> In other words: it directed you to the next POI as the crow flies.


Actually you use the recorded track to guide yourself to the next POI, not some arrow pointing towards it. That's why it's called a "trackback" feature.


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## martowl

bruceames said:


> Actually you use the recorded track to guide yourself to the next POI, not some arrow pointing towards it. That's why it's called a "trackback" feature.


Thanks bruceames I could not have said it better. You have a track and POIs, all you need. I found the Garmin implementation of tracking on the 310/910 models to be highly problematic. If you veer a few feet off of the track an alarm sounds ever 30 sec or so with no way to turn it off. I don't need that kind of guidance


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## bruceames

martowl said:


> Thanks bruceames I could not have said it better. You have a track and POIs, all you need. I found the Garmin implementation of tracking on the 310/910 models to be highly problematic. If you veer a few feet off of the track an alarm sounds ever 30 sec or so with no way to turn it off. I don't need that kind of guidance


Exactly. You don't need additional directions with the actual track staring you in the face. The track IS the directions.


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## kmseteam

bruceames said:


> Actually you use the recorded track to guide yourself to the next POI, not some arrow pointing towards it. That's why it's called a "trackback" feature.


 Well, actually there IS an arrow pointing, when you use the distance/direction display of the very same navigation function. And that's what I've been trying to say right from the beginning. I'm not saying there's no route to follow. And I am not the only one who has thought the closer zoom level would be good. Well, enough with this, like I said, I got irritated by that Martowl's "that is incorrect" while it was not.


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## Adam Rosser

kmseteam said:


> Well, actually there IS an arrow pointing, when you use the distance/direction display of the very same navigation function. And that's what I've been trying to say right from the beginning. I'm not saying there's no route to follow. And I am not the only one who has thought the closer zoom level would be good. Well, enough with this, like I said, I got irritated by that Martowl's "that is incorrect" while it was not.


With respect, your constant references to 'as the crow flies' are pointless. No-one sees the distinction you are trying to draw. The old 'find-back' could properly be described that way, but when you have an actual track and POIs in key places, it is irrelevant to keep talking about 'as the crow flies' from POI to POI. If you are going to take that view, then the Garmin method is as the crow flies from one track-point to the next. As everyone who has ever used a Garmin knows, they are very sensitive to going off course, and not terribly helpful in finding your way back. The Suunto implementation sounds far better (though I haven't tried it personally yet).


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## martowl

kmseteam said:


> Well, actually there IS an arrow pointing, when you use the distance/direction display of the very same navigation function. And that's what I've been trying to say right from the beginning. I'm not saying there's no route to follow. And I am not the only one who has thought the closer zoom level would be good. Well, enough with this, like I said, I got irritated by that Martowl's "that is incorrect" while it was not.


I was not try to irritate you, sorry. Perhaps if you compare the FindBack feature, which is still there to the Trackback feature you will see the difference. The Findback requires that you navigate from the beginning and simply leads you as the crow flies from one POI to the next, no track. So you are expected to fly over a cliff if necessary. The new Trackback adds POIs and a route showing exactly the path you used to get to your current location. POIs are also inserted and I am not sure how they are calculated. I will play around with this in the mountains this weekend when I do another mountain run. However, this is the feature we have been requesting since we bought Ambit1 models. I traded up and was not sure it was worth it. For me, this feature is one that I will use extensively.


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## kmseteam

Well, I think I'm not going to repeat myself any more, everything I have wanted to say is on previous posts. Maybe some day it becomes clear what I've been after. Respect.


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## or_watching

Hi. 
Would some kind Ambit2 owner please help a lost (I only have an Ambit1) soul, and post a video showing the new Ambit2 trackback in action?

Thanks.


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## martowl

or_watching said:


> Hi.
> Would some kind Ambit2 owner please help a lost (I only have an Ambit1) soul, and post a video showing the new Ambit2 trackback in action?
> 
> Thanks.


Hi or_watching! I will post a video today as I plan to run so I will geek up and take my phone with me


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## bowesmana

or_watching said:


> Hi.
> Would some kind Ambit2 owner please help a lost (I only have an Ambit1) soul, and post a video showing the new Ambit2 trackback in action?
> 
> Thanks.


Not sure what there is to show. When you select trackback, it calculates your reverse track. In my case, we had run about 13km along a new track, bush bashing part of the way. It took about 30 seconds to calculate the track. It inserted 12 POIs and immediately started navigating to POI 12. It used exactly the same 3 navigation screens as standard route navigation.

See short video It had the same "Approaching..." message and beeps when at POI.






Video was on this route

Amazing route to Taffy's Rock on a 33 degree day in the bush north of Sydney


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## arhuaco

Nice pics, Cowan is a beautiful spot. I need to get out there and explore some of the trails in the area.....


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## or_watching

bowesmana said:


> When you select trackback, it calculates your reverse track. In my case, we had run about 13km along a new track, bush bashing part of the way. It took about 30 seconds to calculate the track. It inserted 12 POIs and immediately started navigating to POI 12. It used exactly the same 3 navigation screens as standard route navigation.
> 
> See short video It had the same "Approaching..." message and beeps when at POI.


Nice shots!
Great. Looks like it creates a Route back usable just like one created in Movescount. Thanks.


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## bowesmana

or_watching said:


> Nice shots!
> Great. Looks like it creates a Route back usable just like one created in Movescount. Thanks.


I couldn't work out the logic for its choice of POIs, for example, there was a 90 degree track junction and the POI was placed about 50m after the junction, in this case the physical track was easy to see, visibility was good and with the 200m breadcrumb track on screen it was easy to know where I was going. Maybe that was intentional, so if you were standing on the junction and had the directional arrow screen visible, it would always point you the correct direction rather than having ambiguity about the next POI.

It is certainly a nice feature. I hope martowl took his iphone and shares his experience in a mountainous environment.


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## Tony L

Thank you for the post *Bowesmana*! Beautiful scenery and informative vid of Trackback feature of Ambit2. :-!

Couldn't fully catch your 2nd sentence though. Did you say "supposed to break an ankle?"


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## bowesmana

Tony L said:


> Couldn't fully catch your 2nd sentence though. Did you say "supposed to break an ankle?"


One way to break an ankle!

Trying to focus the camera on the watch and make sure the sun wasn't reflecting off the screen, while walking on those rocks... I've enough problems with an already taped ankle


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Stupid headcam keeps looking too high, but before I have to go for *another* try, have perfectionism kick in, and never publish anything anymore (even after having done all those original Ambit review vids)...






Only watch it if you have too much time and no Ambit2, though. Otherwise, get yourself out there. Next up, context-sensitive view button... and then I guess it will be time to test the all-new diversity of GPS "quality"/power-saving settings, right?


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## or_watching

Thank you Gerald. 
Interesting to see it's behavior turning on TrackBack at several different places how the POIs seem to work. It could be misleading if you have crossed the same ground twice. in such as case just following the line would seems best. 

The inserted still pictures were a helpful addition.


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## martowl

Late to the Game or_watching, busy weekend for hiking and running. Below are two photos showing the menus on the watch and then the calculation of the route back. I did not have any Navigation on up until I turned on the Trackback feature.














Trackback_movie Sorry, cannot get the video to load so the link is to the left

This is where the video was taken








these are part of the run, in the first Pagoda Mtn (my goal) is the large pyramid to the left at the end of the valley. The last is a shot from the summit
























Here is the move if you are interested


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## Joakim Agren

Great shoots you did there!:rodekaart

Here is the video you had trouble loading:






When you want to embed the video on the forum just use the YouTube tags and embed this part of the URL between those tags: pR1DWU7IErk Basically the code that comes after watch?v=in the YT URL.


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## or_watching

Wow, thanks everyone. All this gives a good sense of how it works. 

Fantastic vistas, martowl.


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## martowl

Joakim Agren said:


> Great shoots you did there!:rodekaart
> 
> When you want to embed the video on the forum just use the YouTube tags and embed this part of the URL between those tags: pR1DWU7IErk Basically the code that comes after watch?v=in the YT URL.


thanks Joakim! I was trying to embed the entire URL and it would not work.


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## TmanIsHere

I got a question. Is there a way to end navigation on trackback during exercise? It seems it stops recording exercise info after using "End navigation" when I used trackback.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

TmanIsHere said:


> I got a question. Is there a way to end navigation on trackback during exercise? It seems it stops recording exercise info after using "End navigation" when I used trackback.


Must have hit the wrong button (?). Changing navigation, deactivating trackback, etc. shouldn't affect the recording of the exercise. Sure didn't when I last used it...


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## morey000

TmanIsHere said:


> I got a question. Is there a way to end navigation on trackback during exercise? It seems it stops recording exercise info after using "End navigation" when I used trackback.


Agree with above. Starting and stopping navigation doesn't stop recording. I inadvertently 'paused' my workout while turning on navigation once. Not sure how that happened, and it took me about 2 miles to notice, but I assume I just hit the button.


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## TmanIsHere

morey000 said:


> Agree with above. Starting and stopping navigation doesn't stop recording. I inadvertently 'paused' my workout while turning on navigation once. Not sure how that happened, and it took me about 2 miles to notice, but I assume I just hit the button.


Thanks for the help! I must've hit "Pause" inadvertently then. I'm relatively new to this watch, and I just learned to lock the buttons on my run so it won't pause my exercise. :-d


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