# Orient automatic movements - regulating, serviceability



## gtsongor

Hi everyone,

I am planning to purchase an orient automatic watch. At this moment the preference list has been reduced to three watches:

Eminence, FDW08004B0 http://orientwatchusa.com/collections/mens-watches/classic/dw08004b
Bambino, FER24005W0 http://orientwatchusa.com/collections/mens-watches/classic/er24005w
Curator, FFD0J004W0 http://orientwatchusa.com/ffd0j004w0

I have almost made the purchase, but an acquaintance who is a watchman told me that the Orient movements are not durable, contain a lot of plastic components and cannot be neither regulated nor services properly.

What is your experience with these movements? Did you regulate or service these movements?
The Eminence has the Orient 48D40, the Bambino the ORIENT caliber 48743, and the Curator the Orient Caliber 46N40 movement.

Whoul you buy any of these watches?
Which of the above models would you buy (first ;-))?

Thanks for your answers!
Csongor


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## skippington

that seems like a strange statement to me. orient movements are similar to seiko ones. i've read about people replacing seiko parts with orient parts because orient movements are nearly all metal, while some seiko parts were plastic. here's a link to someone that took apart the orient 46943 movement.

Service: Orient DayDate / calibre 4694 | Watch Guy

perhaps your friend is confusing orient with another brand?


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## AustinPeacock

I've taken apart an Orient Bambino. The entire movement was metal.


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## AutomaticWatch

gtsongor said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am planning to purchase an orient automatic watch. At this moment the preference list has been reduced to three watches:
> 
> Eminence, FDW08004B0 http://orientwatchusa.com/collections/mens-watches/classic/dw08004b
> Bambino, FER24005W0 http://orientwatchusa.com/collections/mens-watches/classic/er24005w
> Curator, FFD0J004W0 http://orientwatchusa.com/ffd0j004w0
> 
> I have almost made the purchase, but an acquaintance who is a watchman told me that the Orient movements are not durable, contain a lot of plastic components and cannot be neither regulated nor services properly.
> 
> What is your experience with these movements? Did you regulate or service these movements?
> The Eminence has the Orient 48D40, the Bambino the ORIENT caliber 48743, and the Curator the Orient Caliber 46N40 movement.
> 
> Whoul you buy any of these watches?
> Which of the above models would you buy (first ;-))?
> 
> Thanks for your answers!
> Csongor


Your watchman buddy is way off, unfortunately. Japanese brands suffer from a lot of negative bias. Orient movements get a tremendous amount of kudos due to the great accuracy. In fact the specifications of your average 46943 movement are better than a basic 2824.

All 3 watches you've picked are good examples of Orient's quality.


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## pasiz

I have seriviced many Japan movements and need to say that your watchman does not really know nothing about orient movements. They are really good workhorses, that can go without service well over 10 years.


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## yifu

He might be referring to the movement holders, which are made of plastic on most entry level Seikos and Orients. There are no plastic components in the movement of any modern watch i know of, except part of the date mechanism on some Orients, which isn't much of a concern. Orients have very good regulation out of the box compared to Seikos and Miyotas, which are unregulated out of the factory. However, like most entry level Japanese movements, the movements, they lack microadjuster screws so they are hard to adjust, have low amplitude resulting in poor isochronism (all entry level Orients and Seikos run faster as the mainspring winds down) and have no decorating, all these problems are really only addressed when you look at the high end Japanese movements, where the basic ETA2824 would have all of them.


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## gtsongor

Thank you All for your kind answer!

I am looking for watch similar to the Doxa my late grandfather had. The Bambino looks very alike.

Would any of these run for decades?

Dear yifu!
Do you think that, in spite of the lack of the micro-adjuster screws, these movements can be regulated to be precise?
Can you give me an example of a high and movement? From the bottom end of the price list...


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## dimman

AutomaticWatch said:


> Your watchman buddy is way off, unfortunately. Japanese brands suffer from a lot of negative bias. Orient movements get a tremendous amount of kudos due to the great accuracy. In fact the specifications of your average 46943 movement are better than a basic 2824.
> 
> All 3 watches you've picked are good examples of Orient's quality.


What is 'great' accuracy? All of mine are off by between 1-2 minutes/week. Not bad, but not great. What kind of bugs me is that 3 lose and one gains. So in this case while the accuracy is ok, the precision of the regulation seems less so. A spread of ~3 minutes/week between the gaining watch and the losing watch. For reference, I have 3 handwinders from the 1950s that all have equal or superior accuracy to my best Orient while running at only 18000 bph.

Not that I'm unhappy at all, but I wouldn't call them great. There are also minor irritations on some of them, like fiddling with the backlash when setting the 24h ring on my world timer so that everything lines up when I change cities.

These are very well priced watches, and worth every dollar, but I feel some people over hype them a bit.


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## dimman

Well as luck will have it, I will be finding out first hand on what serviceability on my Journeyman is some time next week.

I've discovered that I exceeded the shock limits on my watch tonight. As it turns out, it cannot handle a force specified as 'make really fast glow stick light tornadoes for my two-year-old nephew with my watch on because I got almost as excited as he did and didn't think to take it off'. 

Not sure what that converts to in metric... 'One metric tonne of stupidity', maybe? Argh...

Watch stopped, and putting very light tension to advance the time in setting position it would run until the tension was released. Second hand would then continue for a few beats and abruptly stop, almost looked like it kicked one beat backwards. But now it just stays stopped.

Oh well, off to the watchmaker when I get home next week. Good thing I brought my Omega that I'm tracking the accuracy on for a few more days...


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## dimman

Watch started on its own this morning. So still going to have to wait to find out about serviceability. This is a good thing, btw. 

This is the only problem I've had with any of my 4 Orients, and it was 100% my fault, but it managed to recover on its own.

Also here's a pic of the movement from one of my Excursionists. Plastic? Maybe the date wheel. (This is pretty much just a typical 3 hand and date movement with the addition of a central 24h hand that can't be separately set.)










Another thing to note is the anti-shock on the balance jewel with the 3 'petals' looks to me (not an expert) to be more similar to the anti-shock on Seiko's very high grade movements.

Can more technically knowledgeable guys comment on the anti-shock? Does this have something to do with why my Journeyman recovered by itself?


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## -hj-

Dimman said:


> Well as luck will have it, I will be finding out first hand on what serviceability on my Journeyman is some time next week.
> 
> I've discovered that I exceeded the shock limits on my watch tonight. As it turns out, it cannot handle a force specified as 'make really fast glow stick light tornadoes for my two-year-old nephew with my watch on because I got almost as excited as he did and didn't think to take it off'.


Wow, just a thought, could problem could be something else or a defect? I've subject my Orient to much more shock than what you described (clapping hands forcefully and including shaking it back and forth very quickly) and it still ticks. In fact, initially it was slowing by about a minute every 2 weeks, and now it's keeping time pretty well (i will admit I am not being very scientific in keeping track of its accuracy though).


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## dimman

-hj- said:


> Wow, just a thought, could problem could be something else or a defect? I've subject my Orient to much more shock than what you described (clapping hands forcefully and including shaking it back and forth very quickly) and it still ticks. In fact, initially it was slowing by about a minute every 2 weeks, and now it's keeping time pretty well (i will admit I am not being very scientific in keeping track of its accuracy though).


Well I was alternating between shaking back and forth, and twirling around a glow stick as fast as physically possible for at least 10 minutes straight, plus when I noticed it stopped later it was at the time I was playing with him. And since zero problems for the previous year, I'll assume user error.


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## daniel9399

Hello there! Your watchman better watch his mouth.. *just kidding* Well Orients are a humble but durable watch brand which uses its in house movements, which are all unique in a special way. The price of servicing a swiss watch (basic lube) at their authorised dealer can easily allow one to purchase one to three Orients timepieces. Talking about durability, Japanese branded mechanical watches (Seiko, Orient and Citizen) are known to withstand harsh usages without fail, compared to their dearer Swiss counterparts. Furthermore, most of these affordable and durable Japanese watches ended up as a daily beater watch in almost every watch collector's collection! Many reputable watchmakers also claim that the slower beat rate of these Japanese mechanical watches (21700bpm, with the exception of hi-beat models) can actually outlast their smoother Swiss 28800bpm counterparts due to less moving parts, less friction and slower speed. Anyhow, people like me do have interest in Swiss and also Japanese watches as both are beautiful and unique in their own special way. 

Which Orient you should buy? ALL OF THEM! (if you can afford it) Wear a different watch everyday, every occasion, every situation. Each model tells a different time and story. If you have a tight budget, choose one that suits your lifestyle.. are you a construction guy, a sports person or a desk diver? If you are a rough person with scratches on your hands, you might need one with sapphire crystal, stainless steel band and all stainless steel body. 
Last but not least, if your Orient ever fails (usually after years of abuse), don't be sad as you had already saved so much money... Time to get a new one. Enjoy your watches!


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## -hj-

Dimman said:


> Well I was alternating between shaking back and forth, and twirling around a glow stick as fast as physically possible for at least 10 minutes straight, plus when I noticed it stopped later it was at the time I was playing with him. And since zero problems for the previous year, I'll assume user error.


Ahh, bad luck. Hope you get the watch fixed - this makes me concerned about my own as I believe I have subjected mine to much more shock than I should really have.


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## dimman

-hj- said:


> Ahh, bad luck. Hope you get the watch fixed - this makes me concerned about my own as I believe I have subjected mine to much more shock than I should really have.


If you read a couple posts after, it corrected itself in a few days and is running fine. I don't know how anti-shock works, if the springs put pressure to re-align things or what, but I'm happy it's fine now.


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## -hj-

Dimman said:


> If you read a couple posts after, it corrected itself in a few days and is running fine. I don't know how anti-shock works, if the springs put pressure to re-align things or what, but I'm happy it's fine now.


Ah, I must have missed that part. Good to hear about that


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## Proenski

Just wondering; if kept in good condition, how long do Orient movements last? A life-time? Enough to pass on through the generations?

I mean you do see vintage Orient watches but considering the factory output not what I would expect. Or are people just keeping them to themselves? :-!


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## hantms

Dimman said:


> What is 'great' accuracy? All of mine are off by between 1-2 minutes/week. Not bad, but not great.


It's been more than a month since I last set my Ray, it's around 10 seconds fast right now.

Depending on use and positioning it varies a bit, it sometimes loses 5 seconds, sometimes gains that back.

So far it's a watch that only needs setting when I don't wear it and it runs out of juice. Otherwise it'll stay within + or - 15 seconds pretty much indefinitely.


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## Proenski

But what about the life-span in general?


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## Proenski

Proenski said:


> But what about the life-span in general?


No long time collectors here with this kind of experience?


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## hantms

With service it should last just as long as any other movement. Thing is that mostly expensive watches get the service to keep them running, and more affordable ones often don't.

But if you service it after 7-10 years it should keep running for decades.

I have basic watches that were made in the 1950s and are running fine. (Not Orient, but there is nothing in that movement that is of lesser quality than those 1950s movements.)


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## GettinIn2watches

That's great to know. I am currently looking at Seiko 5 21 Jewels SNKL19 because I have great experience with Seiko 5 because my current one is an SKN601 and I have been using it since 8 years ago (middle of highscool) and now I have finished College and still working and accurate as my other quartz. At the same time, there is this Orient ER27006B that has a caliber 48743 that really interest me. So I think I know what to buy now. I should give Orient a try since alot of people here in forum say that Orient Automatics are reliable just as the Seikos. I will post a picture once I get it. What do you think tho? Should I really go for the Orient or Seiko 5? 
There is only $5 difference between the two models I am choosing from Amazon.ca



AutomaticWatch said:


> Your watchman buddy is way off, unfortunately. Japanese brands suffer from a lot of negative bias. Orient movements get a tremendous amount of kudos due to the great accuracy. In fact the specifications of your average 46943 movement are better than a basic 2824.
> 
> All 3 watches you've picked are good examples of Orient's quality.


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## Lcoopie

Perhaps you need a new watchman?


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## norsairius

I have an Orient Journeyman, one of the watches referenced earlier in this thread, that I picked up off of eBay. The seller noted that it was about 5 years old so I figured I'd at least get it looked at once I got it. I took it to a local jewelry store that has watch specialists on site that typically perform repairs and service for high-end Swiss brands, but they're flexible enough that they'll at least try to work with anything you bring in. I was actually a bit surprised that they knew of the Orient watch brand, but I suppose they've probably seen a lot too, given the range of services they offer for watches.

Anyway, long story short, the watch specialist opened up the watch, took a look around, and found that there were no issues, that there was no need to do any service on it, and that it was keeping time just fine. This was all even after I gave them pre-approval to do any work they needed to bring it up to "like new" condition.

I had heard before that these Orient watches will run very well as long as they are serviced, even as little as every 10 years, but I can certainly believe that now! I think and agree, as someone else mentioned, that there's probably some merit to the fact that Orient's in-house movements aren't high-beat compared to others. I'm sure there are other factors that help though.


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## jupiter6

Lcoopie said:


> Perhaps you need a new watchman?


The Op was 2 years ago, and the poster long gone, judging by the amount of posts. Posts that are sure to make people indignant, combined with a poster with next to no posts and who doesn't respond to any replies looks a lot like trolling to me.


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## theobub

Dimman said:


> What is 'great' accuracy?


My Bambino came 8 secs/day fast... after a few months it consistently settled at 3 secs/day fast.
It outperforms all my 2824, 2836, 2892. I got lucky I guess... I can get my seikos(7s26 and 4R36) and miyotas(8210) adjusted to to something close to that. My experience with japanese movements can be described as:
- Seikos (low end 7s26 and 4R36): usually are quite fast out of the box... up to 20 secs a day and settle to 10-12 secs/day after a few weeks of use. Hard to adjust (no fine adjustment) but when you get it right they keep great accuracy.
- Miyotas 8210: Anything can happen out of the box, but solvable with some adjustment... same as seiko in that area.
- Orients: out of the box little fast or slow, if it is a little fast... just use for a few weeks and it will settle. If slow out of the box it is easy to make it a little fast and wait to settle

As for service, well I try to get them serviced at least every 3-4 years (but usually 2-3 years) although I have had at least one of each that stayed 8 years running fairly well without any service (the miyotas needed a replacement spring when not serviced for that long).

What I am looking forward is to lay my hands on some high beat Miyotas 90xx 91xx (well just because they are in my league... I would really love to get any springdrive machines), have heard great things about it.

Hope to have helped in some way.


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