# Can you really dive with a 200m Orient?



## Lonepine

Sorry if this has been asked before- but I can't seem to find the answer. I just got a new White Dolphin- LOVE it. I love how thin the bezel is compared to another dive watch I have (Citizen 200m Air Diver). It fit better on my wrist (maybe just a tad tight), and it's bold and unusual. Just love it.

And, it's my first auto, so I'm always eyeing it for its time, comparing it with AT&T (phone) but so far so good.

Anyhow, the booklet's chart on Water Resistance says a 200m is okay for snorkeling and skin diving, but not SCUBA. Anyone take a 200m Orient on a SCUBA dive?

TIA,
ts


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## ragamuffin

I don't dive, but in general a 200m watch should be suitable for light scuba diving. A 300m watch is what I would say is a real diver - meaning you can take it a deep as any scuba-divers would go (down to 40-45m)


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## scottymac

ragamuffin said:


> I don't dive, but in general a 200m watch should be suitable for light scuba diving. A 300m watch is what I would say is a real diver - meaning you can take it a deep as any scuba-divers would go (down to 40-45m)


There's a distinction here besides the numeric depth rating; i.e. "200M vs. 300M".

Also, it's not enough to simply say "a 200M watch is generally ok for light scuba diving", as not all 200M watches are created the same. Case in point: a 200M "water resist" watch is not specifically designed nor tested for scuba the same way a 200M "diver's" or "air diver's" watch is. Two completely different animals.

The descriptive language is significant, as is the manufacturer's recommendation. "Water Resist 200M" does not mean the same thing as "Diver's" or "Air Diver's 200M." Water resist is not specifically designed for scuba, so you couldn't really complain if you tried it and it failed. Would it actually stand up though? I dunno, maybe. But when there are other models specifically designed with scuba in mind, it would be a margin of assurance and safety further to go with one of those models.

There are many "real" 200M diver's watches...it just doesn't start at 300M and above. Again, the numeric depth rating is not the only qualifier of a "real" diver's watch.

There's a decent reference chart here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Resistant_mark


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## dspencer

The "Divers" mark on a watch simply means that the watch was voluntarily ISO certified. All that ISO certification shows is that the watch was tested and met standards. It does not say anything about the watches ability to perform in the real world. Most watches on the wrists of most SCUBA divers are indeed not ISO certified. I would say that a 200m water resistant watch with screw down crown and pushers and a screw down case back should be able to go to 40-45 meters. Now, if you are a professional diver and you are going to be working at over 100m or saturation diving, you should not even consider this watch, you need something like a Rolex deep sea dweller. Besides, even if the watch does fail, the MSRP is only $190.00 US. If you're recreational diving and you are really afraid to take this watch diving, get a SEIKO monster. Same price, automatic, similar looks and ISO certified.


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## robzilla

dspencer said:


> The "Divers" mark on a watch simply means that the watch was voluntarily ISO certified. All that ISO certification shows is that the watch was tested and met standards. It does not say anything about the watches ability to perform in the real world. Most watches on the wrists of most SCUBA divers are indeed not ISO certified. I would say that a 200m water resistant watch with screw down crown and pushers and a screw down case back should be able to go to 40-45 meters. Now, if you are a professional diver and you are going to be working at over 100m or saturation diving, you should not even consider this watch, you need something like a Rolex deep sea dweller. Besides, even if the watch does fail, the MSRP is only $190.00 US. If you're recreational diving and you are really afraid to take this watch diving, get a SEIKO monster. Same price, automatic, similar looks and ISO certified.


MSRP really means nothing the MSRP for the Monster is close to $400 and the same with the SKX175/173.

In the real world you can get a Mako for around $100 and a Seiko Diver ISO certified for about $50 more, both with a bracelet. I have seen the Seiko as low as $145 sometimes you can snag one off the bay for just over $100 but around $150 is easily obtained.

I think the Mako for most diving purposes will work fine. Just as the above poster pointed to if you are going 100m or more on a regular basis then you should get a Seiko or Citizen diver.

If you are not then it is really down to looks. The Mako will probably be more accurate if that is a consideration, has a steel movement holder and is made in Japan all for around $100 and looks pretty sharp as well and is very comfy on the wrist.

The Seiko for $50 more has a movement made in Malaysia, plastic movement holder, and is cased in China.

Does it matter where it is made? Not really as I am sure the steel from both is from China and the bracelets on both come from China. The plastic movement holder may offer better shock protection and the quality of both is awesome. The 7s26 has a proeven track record as tough as nails movement!

Personally I think that you really can't go wrong with the Mako. For $100 it is a solid, well made watch with a big following. I am sure there are a lot of Mako owners who dive with their Mako's and have never had a problem.

BTW if you are a professional diver do you need a dive watch?? If you did would you not have a Citizen Eco-zilla on Titanium? Why would any pro dive with a Rolex- really why? Oh and if you do not trust the solar tech then the Auto-zilla would work!

Rob


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## greywolf

Lonepine said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before- but I can't seem to find the answer. I just got a new White Dolphin- LOVE it. I love how thin the bezel is compared to another dive watch I have (Citizen 200m Air Diver). It fit better on my wrist (maybe just a tad tight), and it's bold and unusual. Just love it.
> 
> And, it's my first auto, so I'm always eyeing it for its time, comparing it with AT&T (phone) but so far so good.
> 
> Anyhow, the booklet's chart on Water Resistance says a 200m is okay for snorkeling and skin diving, but not SCUBA. Anyone take a 200m Orient on a SCUBA dive?
> 
> TIA,
> ts


my question is, are you a scuba diver?

the manufacturer (Orient) say's it is not an approved activity then you have no warranty from the maker if it floods within the warranty period, that Citizen would be the better choice of the two. (if you have it tested every year or so)

oh someone mentioned Rolex, they do make a fine dive watch...(manufacturer say's scuba OK) I've used my Sea-Dweller and Submariners on many dives but my trusty old Skx175 has much better lume.:-d

gw


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## dspencer

robzilla said:


> MSRP really means nothing the MSRP for the Monster is close to $400 and the same with the SKX175/173.
> 
> In the real world you can get a Mako for around $100 and a Seiko Diver ISO certified for about $50 more, both with a bracelet. I have seen the Seiko as low as $145 sometimes you can snag one off the bay for just over $100 but around $150 is easily obtained.
> 
> I think the Mako for most diving purposes will work fine. Just as the above poster pointed to if you are going 100m or more on a regular basis then you should get a Seiko or Citizen diver.
> 
> If you are not then it is really down to looks. The Mako will probably be more accurate if that is a consideration, has a steel movement holder and is made in Japan all for around $100 and looks pretty sharp as well and is very comfy on the wrist.
> 
> The Seiko for $50 more has a movement made in Malaysia, plastic movement holder, and is cased in China.
> 
> Does it matter where it is made? Not really as I am sure the steel from both is from China and the bracelets on both come from China. The plastic movement holder may offer better shock protection and the quality of both is awesome. The 7s26 has a proeven track record as tough as nails movement!
> 
> Personally I think that you really can't go wrong with the Mako. For $100 it is a solid, well made watch with a big following. I am sure there are a lot of Mako owners who dive with their Mako's and have never had a problem.
> 
> BTW if you are a professional diver do you need a dive watch?? If you did would you not have a Citizen Eco-zilla on Titanium? Why would any pro dive with a Rolex- really why? Oh and if you do not trust the solar tech then the Auto-zilla would work!
> 
> Rob


The Rolex deep sea dweller is required equipment for the divers employed by several oil companies. It is a tool watch designed for diving. This guy is a lifelong diver and uses rolexes whether they are required or not.

www.diving-watch.net


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## James Haury

I disagree.If a watch is pressure rated to 200meters to say you can only dive to 40-45m is ridiculous static overpressure is not that great(extra pressure on the watch from moveing around) The reason recommended uses for 200m dive watches are so conservative is to minimize warranty claims.


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## greywolf

James Haury said:


> I disagree.If a watch is pressure rated to 200meters to say you can only dive to 40-45m is ridiculous static overpressure is not that great(extra pressure on the watch from moveing around) The reason recommended uses for 200m dive watches are so conservative is to minimize warranty claims.


what part do you disagree?:-s the 200m WR rating is what it is, 200m. 
Orient states that scuba is not allowed. that makes the Mako a really good looking "diver styled" watch instead of a dive watch , according to Orient and their warranty.
so it seems to me the question is not could you, but should you use this watch for scuba..

gw


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## dspencer

James Haury said:


> I disagree.If a watch is pressure rated to 200meters to say you can only dive to 40-45m is ridiculous static overpressure is not that great(extra pressure on the watch from moveing around) The reason recommended uses for 200m dive watches are so conservative is to minimize warranty claims.


I wasn't stating that this watch could only dive to 45 meters. Overpressure is a non-issue as it has been well proven that the fastest, most powerful swimmer in the world could not generate enough overpressure to cause a watch to fail at depth. My point was that most leisure divers will probably never approach, let alone go below 45 meters. Most of the visible light spectrum is absorbed within 10 meters so it is dark, what would be the point? There is no doubt that this watch can dive to well beyond 45 meters without worry.


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## medtech

James Haury said:


> I disagree.If a watch is pressure rated to 200meters to say you can only dive to 40-45m is ridiculous static overpressure is not that great(extra pressure on the watch from moveing around) The reason recommended uses for 200m dive watches are so conservative is to minimize warranty claims.


Close. It is actually so conservative, b/c they want to avoid large lawsuits for wrongful death. Imagine diving at 200m and for whatever reason, your watch fills with water. If you were relying on that as your sole means of timing the dive, you could be in trouble. The company would then be liable not only for deaths, but also anyone that claimed lasting effects from the bends, etc. They want to keep costs down, so they don't rate it for Scuba at all.


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## Nick1016

medtech said:


> Close. It is actually so conservative, b/c they want to avoid large lawsuits for wrongful death. Imagine diving at 200m and for whatever reason, your watch fills with water. If you were relying on that as your sole means of timing the dive, you could be in trouble. The company would then be liable not only for deaths, but also anyone that claimed lasting effects from the bends, etc. They want to keep costs down, so they don't rate it for Scuba at all.


I think this is overdoing it a bit. Any professional diver is going to have multiple backup resources to his wristwatch (dive computer, fellow diver's watch, fellow diver's computer, divemaster at the surface with timers, clocks, etc.). No recreational diver is going to be diving to 200m. 40-45m is the absolute limit of what a recreational diver can do...I've never been below 30m myself. And it would take some PRETTY creative lawyering to get past the comparative negligence of a diver who let a faulty wristwatch result in his death...

Bottom line, as others have said, Orient says don't Scuba dive with the Mako because it wants to avoid warranty claims. There are plenty of folks who have dived with Makos, however, and they've posted photos here and on other fora in the past.


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## medtech

Nick1016 said:


> I think this is overdoing it a bit. Any professional diver is going to have multiple backup resources to his wristwatch (dive computer, fellow diver's watch, fellow diver's computer, divemaster at the surface with timers, clocks, etc.). No recreational diver is going to be diving to 200m. 40-45m is the absolute limit of what a recreational diver can do...I've never been below 30m myself. And it would take some PRETTY creative lawyering to get past the comparative negligence of a diver who let a faulty wristwatch result in his death...
> 
> Bottom line, as others have said, Orient says don't Scuba dive with the Mako because it wants to avoid warranty claims. There are plenty of folks who have dived with Makos, however, and they've posted photos here and on other fora in the past.


I don't think it's overdoing it at all. Like you said, how many people would dive with this watch, and how many of those would actually submit a warranty claim? The numbers would be tiny IMO.

And you don't need to be creative or good to be a lawyer. If the manufacturer said it was ok for Scuba, there is undoubtedly some moron who would dive without a backup, and that is exactly the person who would sue, and they would win, easily. (Think Mcdonald's coffee lawsuit, burgulars suing people defending their homes, the list is endless. Our country is full of lame lawsuits that reward dumb people for doing dumb things just because the owner manufacturer didn't tell them not to.)

Crack open the manual again and you will see two warnings that focus solely on death and severe bodily harm. Then they devote nearly 2 pages to basically address the fact that if you Scuba with this watch you might die. Fixing warranty claims is pennies compared to just one wrongful death suit.

Anyway, I'm sure the watch would be fine to depths of 100ft.


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## Turkishraf

I have to confess that I Searched this forum to find out information on the mako and how deep you can dive with it. I own a dive school in Pemba Tanzania and I have An old Mako with a rubber strap. It runs a bit fast but it works just fine for hundreds of dives- to a max of 36 metres. I hope this helps. 

also I have had 4 seiko divers and all of them have been inaccurate to the point of annoyance. Seiko owns orient, but I prefer orient . And yes I do dive with a dive computer too. The mako is my back up in case of computer failiure, which does happen.


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## oogabooga

First of all, that is a nice watch. Good pick. I love orient. 

This is just me... i'd dive with that thing anytime if it was me, and not worry for a second.


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## ManMachine

Same, if I actually do a real dive in the ocean. I'd be lucky to reach 10m


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## A MattR of Time

The only two Orients I would seriously dive with are the ISO certified divers - the 200m Air Diver Revolver and the 300m Sat diver.


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## Chazman1946

Most recretional divers aren't going deeper then 30m. A 200m watch is more then enough.


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## HOV

I had my Mako pressure tested for its rated pressure and it passed just fine.

I swim often and snorkel occasionally, but if I ever did SCUBA dive I'd probably use my completely overkill Ecozilla or GSAR before my Mako. Based purely on panache.


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## ManMachine

I'd also worry more about myself than the watch


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## Leonine

Dive, dive, dive


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## serge70

Quite a number of young people dive with $10 Casio watches on their wrists.Orient make very high quality watches & I'd happily leap into any body of water wearing my Excursionist.
My only worry would be the watch weighing me down,such is the beefiness of the case.
I think the only reason the Mako or any budget Orient 100/200m rated watch isn't ISO rated as a diver is that the testing required to meet ISO standards would increase the purchase price.


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## Nosmo

Took my original Mako with me on a holiday to the Maldives and had no problems with it diving to depths of 30m.


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## md101010

Been about 50m-70m.....no problem with mine. LOVE the watch!!!


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## trekDS

I have dived with my Orient Ray and had no problem. A 200m rated watch from a company like Orient or Seiko will always be capable of what the dial says, regardless of whether they bothered to have that particular model ISO tested.


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## A MattR of Time

I'd have no qualms about diving with this one:










True ISO rated Air Diver.


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## anzac1957

Don't recall seeing mentioned in this thread, but part of the ISO rating for Scuba/Air Divers designation also has to do with lume visibility AFAIK.. Not just the depth rating..


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## sirgilbert357

anzac1957 said:


> Don't recall seeing mentioned in this thread, but part of the ISO rating for Scuba/Air Divers designation also has to do with lume visibility AFAIK.. Not just the depth rating..


And some posters above don't seem to realize that not EVERY single watch is ISO tested individually. The DESIGN of the watch is engineered to meet or exceed ISO standards, but I'm sure only the first few prototypes are tested. After it's determined that the watch is solid and capable of ISO standards, then it is just produced and sold and the quality control measures do the rest.


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## A MattR of Time

sirgilbert357 said:


> And some posters above don't seem to realize that not EVERY single watch is ISO tested individually. The DESIGN of the watch is engineered to meet or exceed ISO standards, but I'm sure only the first few prototypes are tested. After it's determined that the watch is solid and capable of ISO standards, then it is just produced and sold and the quality control measures do the rest.


Once the design meets the ISO criteria, the only thing to test during production is WR of each individual watch.

Water Resistant mark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> ISO 6425 testing of the water resistance or water-tightness and resistance at a water overpressure as it is officially defined is fundamentally different from non-dive watches, because every single watch has to be tested.
> 
> Marking. Watches conforming to ISO 6425 are marked with the word DIVER'S WATCH L M or DIVER'S L M to distinguish diving watches from look a like watches that are not suitable for actual scuba diving. The letter L indicates the diving depth, in metres, guaranteed by the manufacturer.


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## Rojote

A MattR of Time said:


> I'd have no qualms about diving with this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True ISO rated Air Diver.


X2, although I hear the yellow faced version can dive a little deeper. LOL


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## Laso1

I only dive with Seikos, started diving 27 years ago with a 150 meter quartz. The depth ratings on these watches are overkill. 200 meters is well over 6 times the safe dive limit for sport diving. Screw down crowns and backs are a must as well as periodic checks (2 or 3 years) of the "o" rings and seals. Most recreational dives are around 10 to 15 meters. Whatever watch you wear make sure you double check that the crown (and pushers) are screwed down tight before getting wet. It will most likely fog up right away if it is not water tight. Orient makes a good watch. I have a blue mako, never thought about diving with it, it's to pretty. I prefer the good old fashion simple dive watches. The less exterior moving parts (ie pushers) the better. But I would be surprised if you had any problems with using it for sport diving. The only real difference from snorkeling is bottom time. By the way great looking watch, enjoy.


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## TheBronze

I know nothing about ISO stuff or certifications of any kind. All I know is that I frequently swim and snorkel with my Mako and its always been fine. I "dive" down to maybe twenty feet....beyond that my little sensitive ears hurt


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## James Haury

Yeah I'm lucky if I get 10 feet below the water on a dive from the side of a pool. I just like dive watches because they are rugged good looking watches mostly.


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