# POLL: Interest in Vostok Compressor Reissue



## Sullivanjt

I am trying to gauge interest in a reissue of the Vostok Compressor. This is not a reinterpretation, but rather an attempt to make something much closer to the original. 39-40mm case, same design style for the dial and internal bezel. Certain small changes will have to be made to distinguish from the original, of course (no сделано в СССР, for example), but leave most of it alone.

The purpose of the project is pretty simple: a lot of people appear to like the look of the watch, and while the recent reissue has its own charms, a smaller case and different design still draw people in. I think doing this particular reissue gives Vostok a great opportunity to show off one of their more interesting (for me, anyway) past designs, and would grab people's attention, even from outside the Russian watch collecting community. Someday I'd like to see it as a regular offering!

Current information (as of 2020/05/06):

- Dimitry from Meranom has stated the minimum order number required would be 400: 300 minimum members required to purchase, and 100 for sale on the website.

- The cost of the last reissue was USD $267. For this project, estimates are USD $300+

- Because of the COVID-19 epidemic, I'm not going to comment on a lead time for the project. I think a year is a reasonable time frame, if we give the supply chain some time to reset and limit our own design voting to a few items such as the caseback, along with any design issues that may pop up.

I appreciate you taking time to read the information posted. If you want any other information from me, please let me know, and I will try to answer questions as best I can. I'm still trying to do research before officially presenting the project to the forum moderators.

Here are pictures of the original design:















DESIGN SPECS SO FAR:
- Dmitry has an original case, meaning that during the manufacturing process, they will can try to make the case and crowns as close as possible to the original. Case dimensions: 40mm diameter, 47mm lug-to-lug, 18mm strap width.















- We cannot use acrylic crystals; we have the option of either mineral or sapphire box crystals. Both are much closer to the original than a flat crystal. See pictures above. The mineral crystal will potentially reduce WR to 100m; sapphire is more expensive, but can potentially allow for 200m WR.

- He does not have an original dial or bezel. We will have to redesign those ourselves. I do not have the software to design the dial and bezel; if anyone has any recommendations, I'd greatly appreciate it. User 24h was kind enough to draw up an example to use as a base, attached below:









THINGS WE STILL NEED:

- Bezel design mock-up. 
- Caseback design (if any; I'm honestly inclined to leave it as the regular Amphibia caseback)

I'll keep updating this space so people don't need to scroll through the entire thread.


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## Bandido

I think, a lot of members will connect if something tangible will appear. Until this moment prepare to see blah-blah like mine here. Sorry for the bitter truth


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## Sullivanjt

Bandido said:


> I think, a lot of members will connect if something tangible will appear. Until this moment prepare to se blah-blah like mine here. Sorry for the bitter truth


Thanks for the input. By something tangible, do you mean moderator approval?


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## elsoldemayo

If it's a replica with the only difference being the made in on the dial, 100% in. Large crowns are a must too.


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## Bandido

Sullivanjt said:


> Thanks for the input. By something tangible, do you mean moderator approval?


Yes, and something like processed design with all details to discuss. A real WYSIWYG picture with current price from the contractor.
And there will be debates)))) 
And several price, terms and specs changing.
And new "designs" in mspaint (ha-ha) from members, etc.
And after 2-3 years, if the stars will allow, there will be a new reissue of the Vostok Compressor.
This wold be a good hunting!


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## Kotsov

Camel dude ftw


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## MHe225

Very interested if it will indeed be a true Compressor.

You may recall that "we" have done several (WUS endorsed) projects in the Chinese Mechanical Watches subforum. In 2012 we set out to create a dual crown compressor. The final product looks very nice, but is not a compressor - having a true compressor case would have raised the price above what the participants were willing to pay.








_(2012 WUS CMW Dual Crown prototype - photo credit: hked)_


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## Sullivanjt

MHe225 said:


> Very interested if it will indeed be a true Compressor.
> 
> You may recall that "we" have done several (WUS endorsed) projects in the Chinese Mechanical Watches subforum. In 2012 we set out to create a dual crown compressor. The final product looks very nice, but is not a compressor - having a true compressor case would have raised the price above what the participants were willing to pay.
> 
> View attachment 15086113
> 
> _(2012 WUS CMW Dual Crown prototype - photo credit: hked)_


Thanks for bringing this project up. I actually looked at it during my research on other case designs/producers!

My understanding is that a regular vostok amphibia is essentially a compression case, as its caseback and crystal seal tighter the more pressure is applied. So, as long as that same principal is applied to this watch but with an extra crown, then we have a compressor!


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## OrangeOrange

Can we also bring back the original crimped metal crowns of the Amphibias? I prefer those to the stainless crowns that we have today. According to a representative at Meranom, they haven't been producing the crimped metal crowns. Also if possible, can the original fonts of the Soviet watch be used in the reproduction watch?


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## mariomart

I'm interested, I'll be watching :-!


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## LordRust

Very much interested as well. 

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## zagato1750

I’m in for sure...I love dual crown watches.. my only request would be for some other hands other than the standard amphibia arrow....


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## Chascomm

I think replication in every way that is technically possible (case, crowns, crystal, hands, fonts, colours) should make for a more straightforward project than what we've seen for a while. It is either doable or not doable. No arguments. Those who want a variation from spec can buy the watch and mod it with off-the-shelf Vostok parts.


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## Kotsov

Chascomm said:


> I think replication in every way that is technically possible (case, crowns, crystal, hands, fonts, colours) should make for a more straightforward project than what we've seen for a while. It is either doable or not doable. No arguments. Those who want a variation from spec can buy the watch and mod it with off-the-shelf Vostok parts.


Exactly. I think we should have this as a first principle.


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## Dtn8

I'm interested and also support the replication of the original.


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## ohhenry1

I'm interested, and also am for the idea of keeping it faithful to the original. 

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## Miguel Fazendas

The compressor is one of the most central watches of soviet horology for (not only) me and, like many I suspect, the couple of tries there were before to make a re-edition failed to capture its design exactly.

I’d be all over an exact re-edition (would compromise on its water resistance spec if that helps, as I wouldn’t dive with it -though I get it may be important to many) and would be ok to have a discreet but clear differentiator somewhere in the graphic so that there’s no ambiguity about it being a re-edition or an original.

I’ll be following this closely


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## zagato1750

I stand corrected....it would’ve easily modified to change the hands etc yourself,...I’m in for original!


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## RedFroggy

+1 ... count me in for an exact replica .


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## ohhenry1

By the way, this should go without saying, but in case anyone is viewing this in Tapatalk, this POLL is an actual POLL that you need to log onto watchuseek to vote on. It is not meant to be simply a poll by commentary; you actually need to hit a radio button and then cast your vote (commenting in this thread does not constitute voting).

I'm guessing most everyone else here knows this already, but it almost tripped me up, so I thought it worth emphasizing.


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## tokareva

It would be nice if a comrade from watch.ru would start another poll there. That would give us a better idea of how many are interested . So far it looks like it's well on its way to being a success.
I think if it's executed correctly this could be the biggest most successful project of all time, or MOAP, mother of all projects. :-d


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## Sullivanjt

ohhenry1 said:


> By the way, this should go without saying, but in case anyone is viewing this in Tapatalk, this POLL is an actual POLL that you need to log onto watchuseek to vote on. It is not meant to be simply a poll by commentary; you actually need to hit a radio button and then cast your vote (commenting in this thread does not constitute voting).
> 
> I'm guessing most everyone else here knows this already, but it almost tripped me up, so I thought it worth emphasizing.


Thank you for bringing this up. Yes, there is an actual poll that I would like as many people to vote on as possible, whether it's positive or negative. The numbers can inform my decision on whether or not there are enough people to make the project viable. 300 is doable, I think, but seems pretty high right now considering I can only point to 25 or so that are "officially" interested!


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## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> The compressor is one of the most central watches of soviet horology for (not only) me and, like many I suspect, the couple of tries there were before to make a re-edition failed to capture its design exactly.
> 
> I'd be all over an exact re-edition (would compromise on its water resistance spec if that helps, as I wouldn't dive with it -though I get it may be important to many) and would be ok to have a discreet but clear differentiator somewhere in the graphic so that there's no ambiguity about it being a re-edition or an original.
> 
> I'll be following this closely


Principle no.2 then keep it simple, get it done.


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## Kotsov

Principle no.3 would be that people who have invested in it need to be communicated with?


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## Kotsov

Principle no.4. No more principles, reference the other three


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## StrangeQuark

If it looks like the original, comes from Vostok, and has a Russian movement, I'd be willing to pay up to $350 USD for such a reissue if it was a limited production, with numbered copies. I understand the desire to preserve the value of the actual originals by not copying them exactly, so a few changes would be OK, but I think the color scheme and general design should be preserved. Maybe remove the vertical and horizontal lines from the center of the face, but leave everything else the same? And of course, as you say, the Cyrillic on the face would say "made in Russia" rather than "made in the USSR". That would distinguish them sufficiently, I think. And 40 mm would be OK with me if that's what it takes to keep the 200m WR. Anyway, I would be very excited to see this actually come to fruition.


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## zagato1750

350 too rich for my blood....around 200 and I’m in...already voted in the poll..


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## Miguel Fazendas

danbranan said:


> If it looks like the original, comes from Vostok, and has a Russian movement, I'd be willing to pay up to $350 USD for such a reissue if it was a limited production, with numbered copies. I understand the desire to preserve the value of the actual originals by not copying them exactly, so a few changes would be OK, but I think the color scheme and general design should be preserved. Maybe remove the vertical and horizontal lines from the center of the face, but leave everything else the same? And of course, as you say, the Cyrillic on the face would say "made in Russia" rather than "made in the USSR". That would distinguish them sufficiently, I think. And 40 mm would be OK with me if that's what it takes to keep the 200m WR. Anyway, I would be very excited to see this actually come to fruition.


In this regard, I personally would prefer to keep the original dimensions, even if it compromises the WR grade.

The slightest dimensional tweak generates different proportions and different relationships between shapes, and the design may not be satisfactory any more, specially as a re-edition.

(I believe that part of the reason why previous attempts weren't as appealing to me is precisely those tweaks to the dimensions, that seem innocuous enough but have an unsurpassable effect on the end result.)


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## StrangeQuark

You may be right about the dimensions, Miguel. I'd be happy with either 39 or 40 mm, I think, but certainly no larger. It would be nice to see a mock-up eventually and see if that extra mm causes any significant differences in the looks.

Oh, and for the price, I'd also expect some really decent lume. That's one area where the older Amfibias really fall down is in the quality of the lume. I would hope Dimitry might be able to provide some Superluminova or something close to that in terms of performance. Having some good lume in those different colors would make it look super trippy.


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## tokareva

Comrades, please, let's not already be considering dropping features on the original for fear of devaluing a handful of original watches. It will be hard enough to make a reissue look like an original as is, without worrying whether someone will try to somehow fake one in the future. I think it's already been decided that the dial won't say made in USSR, nothing else different is necessary.


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## Kotsov

tokareva said:


> Comrades, please, let's not already be considering dropping features on the original for fear of devaluing a handful of original watches. It will be hard enough to make a reissue look like an original as is, without worrying whether someone will try to somehow fake one in the future. I think it's already been decided that the dial won't say made in USSR, nothing else different is necessary.


Eggsbloodysactly.


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## StrangeQuark

tokareva said:


> Comrades, please, let's not already be considering dropping features on the original for fear of devaluing a handful of original watches. It will be hard enough to make a reissue look like an original as is, without worrying whether someone will try to somehow fake one in the future. I think it's already been decided that the dial won't say made in USSR, nothing else different is necessary.


Yes, since the originals were all made in the USSR, I think you're correct. Thank you for keeping us on track, tokareva.


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## tokareva

danbranan said:


> Thank you for keeping us on track, tokareva.


No problem comrade, that's what I'm here for :-! :-d


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## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Comrades, please, let's not already be considering dropping features on the original for fear of devaluing a handful of original watches. It will be hard enough to make a reissue look like an original as is, without worrying whether someone will try to somehow fake one in the future. I think it's already been decided that the dial won't say made in USSR, nothing else different is necessary.


Agree


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## Sullivanjt

Just posted an update to the first post with more information. I would appreciate it if you would read it in its entirety.

BLUF: No acrylic crystal. I asked if we could use domed sapphire instead, but it may end up being a flat crystal. Everything else can be original design. Also, an update on cost estimate.


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## tokareva

Sullivanjt said:


> Just posted an update to the first post with more information. I would appreciate it if you would read it in its entirety.
> 
> BLUF: No acrylic crystal. I asked if we could use domed sapphire instead, but it may end up being a flat crystal.


Did he say why it can't be acrylic? How can the watch look the same as the original if the glass is flat?


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## OrangeOrange

For the font we should keep the original Soviet font on the whole watch (dial, date wheel, etc). For the crown we should use the original crimped metal crowns. I would like to see the crimped metal crowns to be back in production again as I prefer those to the new stainless crowns. The old Soviet font used for the numbers on the date wheel has a very nice aesthetic and the original crimped crowns are what makes the Amphibia so unique.


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## Kotsov

Can we stop messing around and just make it an LED digital.


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## Kotsov

Bonus points for the first person to suggest LCD.


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## Kotsov

OCD?


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## Sullivanjt

tokareva said:


> Did he say why it can't be acrylic? How can the watch look the same as the original if the glass is flat?


He stated that the case is not made by Vostok, and so it cannot be acrylic. Not certain of the specific reason, but I've only ever had good dealings with him, and trust that if he says it can't be done, then it can't be done, for whatever reason. I'd rather focus on exploring alternatives as close to the original as possible. If, for two projects, he has said it cannot be done, then I would focus on recreating the rest of the watch to the best of our abilities.

Everything else can be the same. I will ask his what information about the design he needs from us, or if the factory has some of the original design/typefaces to use.


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## Kotsov

I don't think it should even be a watch.


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## Kotsov

Was there ever a Vostok inflator? If not an exact copy of that would be worth pursuing.


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## detroie

there was a poll at the factory group of Vostok about compressor at vkontakte, does it related to this thread?)


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## detroie

Kotsov said:


> I don't think it should even be a watch.


and what it should be? a post card?)


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## Kotsov

detroie said:


> and what it should be? a post card?)


That's it. What type of card?


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## Bandido

Stallionhorse dude ftw


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## tokareva

Kotsov said:


> Can we stop messing around and just make it an LED digital.





Kotsov said:


> Bonus points for the first person to suggest LCD.


:roll:



Sullivanjt said:


> He stated that the case is not made by Vostok, and so it cannot be acrylic. Not certain of the specific reason, but I've only ever had good dealings with him, and trust that if he says it can't be done, then it can't be done, for whatever reason. I'd rather focus on exploring alternatives as close to the original as possible. If, for two projects, he has said it cannot be done, then I would focus on recreating the rest of the watch to the best of our abilities.
> 
> Everything else can be the same. I will ask his what information about the design he needs from us, or if the factory has some of the original design/typefaces to use.


Ok, thanks. I didn't mean to imply that he was wrong or something, I thought it might be an issue related to water resistance. For example, I would take much less water resistance if acrylic could be used. It does seem like it's not an option however.

Can sapphire be made in the correct shape?


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## Sullivanjt

tokareva said:


> :roll:
> 
> Ok, thanks. I didn't mean to imply that he was wrong or something, I thought for example it might be an issue related to water resistance. For example I would take much less water resistance if acrylic could be used. It does seem like it's not an option however.
> 
> Can sapphire be made in the correct shape?


I asked if we could do a domed sapphire crystal instead of a flat crystal. Not sure how that would affect cost, but I'm waiting for his response. He told me the issue with the original case wasn't its water resistance, but rather fitting the internal bezel system inside.


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## StrangeQuark

I don't mind it being sapphire, or even mineral, but if the crystal isn't domed then I'm out. A flat crystal just wouldn't look right on this watch.


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## Chascomm

danbranan said:


> I don't mind it being sapphire, or even mineral, but if the crystal isn't domed then I'm out. A flat crystal just wouldn't look right on this watch.


Like I said earlier; if it is as exact as possible, then it is a simple question of whether it can be made or not. If the shape of the crystal is not domed, then that would be a major change to the overall appearance, therefore the answer seems to be 'no it cannot me made'. That's just my opinion.

However for those interested in pursuing the idea of a sapphire crystal on a watch originally designed for a fully-domed acrylic crystal, it might be worth doing a bit of a search for images of the various versions of the Chinese '1963' style chronograph. The 37mm versions in particular. Red Star have produced this watch with the original style domed acrylic, but have also offered an option with a slightly convex sapphire mounted in a rounded bezel. The shape of the bezel is significant because the bezel and crystal together combine to give a quite similar profile to the original acrylic, but the effect is nevertheless distinctly non-vintage. Would that be a deal-breaker for the majority?


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## Miguel Fazendas

I’m afraid that yes, a flat crystal would be a deal breaker for me...

Not only would it not reflect the original design of the crystal, but it would force the redesign of the case, with taller sides, so that the flat crystal clears the top of the inner bezel and hands.

It would be a different watch.


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## NotaryX

I'm interested. Yesterday in the evening i thought that it was a mistake to refuse from reissue of Vostok Compressor few years ago on Russian watch forum. And this morning i found out this thread. So i will follow.
I also would like to own replica the closest to the original but with modern material - sapphire crystal and stainless steel crowns and so on. And to have a true compressor but not just two crowns case. But first is necessary to understand who will produce. For "Восток" on the dial it must be Meranom. But can he produce true compressor. Of-course in Chine where he order parts they can do everything but the price will bi high


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## ohhenry1

Flat crystal would be a deal breaker for me too, unfortunately.


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## Fergfour

I'd prefer domed as well but will wait until I see some pics before deciding.


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## AlphaFoxtrot

ohhenry1 said:


> Flat crystal would be a deal breaker for me too, unfortunately.


I agree with this


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## AlphaFoxtrot

del


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## LordRust

A flat crystal would indeed nullify most of the vintage look. The previously mentioned Chinese 1963 watch is a good example. The domed acrylic is gorgeous, the flat crystal very much a different watch. The slightly domed sapphire looks somewhat ok, but still a very different watch. Like a deliberate modern take inspired by a vintage watch. I am afraid that those variants would kill the beautiful look of the original in this Vostok 

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## detroie

while there is a discussion about glass.

Could someone tell me, will it be the "compressor" like technically super compressor case, which allow to rotate inner besel under water.

Or, will it be just a look a like case with two screw down heads, which will not allow to use inner besel under water?


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## Sekondtime

Isn't interesting how something like this brings out all these supposed watch enthusiasts who have suddenly found the Russian forum and have one or two posts under their belt. :think:

I am as sceptical as Bandido (see page 1), I doubt this project will ever materialise.

Sekondtime


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## Sullivanjt

Alright, an update.

After speaking with Meranom, here's the information I have:
- He has an original case, with box glass. Pictures attached. The case dimensions are 40mm wide, 47mm lug-to-lug, 18mm strap width.
- They used domed sapphire for the last reissue. He has stated that we could use either mineral or sapphire box crystal for a more original look. They will try their best to make it as close to the old one as possible, to include the oversized crowns. The mineral crystal would be cheaper, but would only get up to 10ATM. Sapphire is obviously more expensive, but is more likely to get the full 20ATM. No cost estimate yet.

- Dmitry does NOT have an original dial or bezel. If we want an original look, we will need to design it ourselves. He will need the Pantone colors we choose. I do not have the software to develop a design, so I would appreciate any recommendations on what to use.

If you have any questions, please let me know. I'll try to collect them through the week and contact Dmitry closer to the end of the week, so I'm not inundating him with questions every day. I'll make sure I edit the first post with this information as well. Please continue to actually vote in the poll, so I get a better idea of the numbers we'll have supporting the project.


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## Miguel Fazendas

That’s a bit better: the case at least would be right.

We could source a more correctly shaped crystal from, say, cousins uk and change it on our own after the fact (those that wish to do so). We’d loose the WR, of course.

The original watch is, for me, both about it’s function and the way it looks. For the reproduction the looks come first (because many other watches can do the function but none does the looks), in my personal view.

About the dial and bezel graphics, I may try to help, I’m a bit fluent in Corel Draw, that seems to be the favored platform for these purposes.

The colors can be challenging because the references won’t be color corrected, but if we have a few of them we can probably have a sense of what’s right.


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## tokareva

I think I could accept the lens above if it's that or nothing. That configuration still looks closer to the original than the one we have now. So if the dial can be replicated correctly it should still be really nice.


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## Sayan

can they make 20mm stap width, please....


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## tokareva

Sayan said:


> can they make 20mm stap width, please....


Comrade, the one we have now is 20 mm and you see what happened. The whole idea of the project is to make an exact replica, not redesign the original.


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## Sullivanjt

Miguel Fazendas said:


> That's a bit better: the case at least would be right.
> 
> We could source a more correctly shaped crystal from, say, cousins uk and change it on our own after the fact (those that wish to do so). We'd loose the WR, of course.
> 
> The original watch is, for me, both about it's function and the way it looks. For the reproduction the looks come first (because many other watches can do the function but none does the looks), in my personal view.
> 
> About the dial and bezel graphics, I may try to help, I'm a bit fluent in Corel Draw, that seems to be the favored platform for these purposes.
> 
> The colors can be challenging because the references won't be color corrected, but if we have a few of them we can probably have a sense of what's right.


I'd appreciate the help. The color can be challenging, the font is going to be especially challenging to do. Not sure how we would go about trying to design/reproduce a typeface! Still, it would be worth it, I think.


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## 24h

Something like this?
Rough sketch in Photoshop. I know that the colors/scaling/positioning are not true to the original and the inner bezel is not included.









Edit: Ehh it was basically pointless for me to do this sketch.
I think the main concern is getting the case right, since the dial for the last project is already so similar...


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## Chascomm

Miguel Fazendas said:


> It would be a different watch.


That seems to be the popular sentiment.

_If_ Vostok can redevelop an authentic Amphibia-style acrylic crystal to fit a dual-crown case, then people will line up to throw money at them. But without that key design element there are other dual-crown watches out there, including the recent Vostok reissue, that are designed around their chosen technologies without compromise.


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## Miguel Fazendas

Sullivanjt said:


> I'd appreciate the help. The color can be challenging, the font is going to be especially challenging to do. Not sure how we would go about trying to design/reproduce a typeface! Still, it would be worth it, I think.


I'm happy to assist. There are good font matching tools around: I think we'll be able to be very close and then, since this will all be done in vectors, we fine tune each shape to make it as exact as possible.


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## Sullivanjt

24h said:


> Something like this?
> Rough sketch in Photoshop. I know that the colors/scaling/positioning are not true to the original and the inner bezel is not included.
> 
> View attachment 15092337
> 
> 
> Edit: Ehh it was basically pointless for me to do this sketch.
> I think the main concern is getting the case right, since the dial for the last project is already so similar...


I think it's a great start! From this, if/when the project has enough people, we can use it as a base design to make tweaks to.


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## Sullivanjt

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I'm happy to assist. There are good font matching tools around: I think we'll be able to be very close and then, since this will all be done in vectors, we fine tune each shape to make it as exact as possible.


I'd appreciate the help. With a dial and bezel example to show, even if we re-work them further, I think more people would be inclined to take the project seriously.


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## jose-CostaRica

Sullivanjt said:


> Alright, an update.
> 
> After speaking with Meranom, here's the information I have:
> - He has an original case, with box glass. Pictures attached. The case dimensions are 40mm wide, 47mm lug-to-lug, 18mm strap width.
> - They used domed sapphire for the last reissue. He has stated that we could use either mineral or sapphire box crystal for a more original look. They will try their best to make it as close to the old one as possible, to include the oversized crowns. The mineral crystal would be cheaper, but would only get up to 10ATM. Sapphire is obviously more expensive, but is more likely to get the full 20ATM. No cost estimate yet.
> 
> - Dmitry does NOT have an original dial or bezel. If we want an original look, we will need to design it ourselves. He will need the Pantone colors we choose. I do not have the software to develop a design, so I would appreciate any recommendations on what to use.
> 
> If you have any questions, please let me know. I'll try to collect them through the week and contact Dmitry closer to the end of the week, so I'm not inundating him with questions every day. I'll make sure I edit the first post with this information as well. Please continue to actually vote in the poll, so I get a better idea of the numbers we'll have supporting the project.
> 
> View attachment 15091921
> 
> View attachment 15091923


Does this mean that Vostok factory will be able to machine the original case??

Enviado desde Costa Rica


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## StrangeQuark

Chascomm said:


> That seems to be the popular sentiment.
> 
> _If_ Vostok can redevelop an authentic Amphibia-style acrylic crystal to fit a dual-crown case, then people will line up to throw money at them. But without that key design element there are other dual-crown watches out there, including the recent Vostok reissue, that are designed around their chosen technologies without compromise.


Right on, Chascomm. Go dome or go home, as far as I'm concerned. Acrylic would be my first choice, but mineral or sapphire would be OK if it has a similar look (like what Citizen did with their Chandler chronograph's mineral crystal to give it a vintage look - see image below). But I have zero interest in a non-domed crystal for this project.


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## agfa100

Well I hope this happens the last time I did one of these was way back in 2007-2008 with a Radio Room that we were able to order with or without date I got mine without date to keep it cleaner I was 35/105. I think the with date group had around 125 and I think it took about 18 months from start to when we got our watches. Mine still works fine but then I don't wear it that often still looks good.

Plus it will sit alongside my first real watch I bought right out of HS a Bulova super compressor back in 67 which started me paying attention to watches.


----------



## Sullivanjt

jose-CostaRica said:


> Does this mean that Vostok factory will be able to machine the original case??
> 
> Enviado desde Costa Rica


The case isn't made in-house, but yes, they said they can attempt an exact replica based on the case they have.


----------



## Kotsov

This is going to be an uphill struggle. God bless anyone who takes it on. Not for the watch project but the barrage of constructive* ideas.


----------



## Sullivanjt

Kotsov said:


> This is going to be an uphill struggle. God bless anyone who takes it on. Not for the watch project but the barrage of constructive* ideas.


I'm a little surprised I haven't seen more right now, with the views this thread has I thought there would be a little more engagement/response than the 48 votes I have at the moment. I do think at least a hundred of those views are mine, though.


----------



## Kotsov

God bless you but I don't think the current audience are capable of completing this.

It's easier to criticise than create.

Pick something. Go for it and see who is interested. 

Ignore those who aren't and the negative.

Once you get the ball rolling people will join in.


----------



## StrangeQuark

Sorry if you think I or others have come across as overly critical, Kotsov. The original proposition that started this thread was summarized as: "Certain small changes will have to be made to distinguish from the original, of course (no сделано в СССР, for example), but leave most of it alone." As it progressed it became clear that there would be very many changes, but that's not what I voted in support of. I fully support the original idea that I voted for and if it ever happens I will gladly pay for the watch. I also appreciate the hard work that sullivanJt put into it and I certainly don't blame anyone if it doesn't work out. But I can't go along with a project that doesn't have a good chance of conforming to the original proposition.


----------



## mariomart

Personally I was originally all in for this because the aim was to make an almost indistinguishable reissue of the original Compressor, other than the "Made in USSR", but if the direction continues to accept constant changes to the original design then we will end up with a "compromise" homage, similar or almost identical to the already produced 800b28 project watch.

I am still interested and watching keenly.


----------



## Sullivanjt

danbranan said:


> Sorry if you think I or others have come across as overly critical, Kotsov. The original proposition that started this thread was summarized as: "Certain small changes will have to be made to distinguish from the original, of course (no сделано в СССР, for example), but leave most of it alone." As it progressed it became clear that there would be very many changes, but that's not what I voted in support of. I fully support the original idea that I voted for and if it ever happens I will gladly pay for the watch. I also appreciate the hard work that sullivanJt put into it and I certainly don't blame anyone if it doesn't work out. But I can't go along with a project that doesn't have a good chance of conforming to the original proposition.


Thank you for your insight into what I am sure a lot of people are thinking about the project proposal - that there may be too many compromises. I am attempting to identify ways to remake the model to the exact specifications as is possible. This is how I feel the scoreboard is tallying up so far, and I would appreciate any feedback you or others may have on what areas have had compromises:

Exact specifications:
- Case: shape, size, crowns will all be made based on an original case.
- Dial and bezel: currently working to identify individuals with know-how to re-design the same dial and bezel colors and font. Unfortunately, the Vostok factory does not have the originals on hand.

Compromises:
- Crystal. Whether mineral or sapphire, it will still be a compromise. However, it can be in the same shape as the original, according to the pictures sent of the case by Dmitry at Meranom. Mineral crystal results in less water resistance, but sapphire is more expensive.
- Strap. No idea where to even begin here. That'd be up to a vote.

If there are any other areas people are concerned about, I like to hear them, in order to ensure all are addressed. My guiding theory on this has been, as original as possible, barring technical issues that we have no control over. In which case, we'd never be able to recreate the original anyway.


----------



## pump 19

mariomart said:


> Personally I was originally all in for this because the aim was to make an almost indistinguishable reissue of the original Compressor, other than the "Made in USSR"


This is my view as well. My thanks to Sullivanjt for taking the lead on this.


----------



## tokareva

Sullivanjt said:


> Compromises:
> - Crystal. Whether mineral or sapphire, it will still be a compromise. However, it can be in the same shape as the original, according to the pictures sent of the case by Dmitry at Meranom. Mineral crystal results in less water resistance, but sapphire is more expensive.
> .


I'm confused, I thought you said the crystal has to be a box crystal. From the photo it looks like the crystal on a big zero and is flat on the sides and top, how can it be made in the same shape as the original?

It seems like the only technical limitation is the lens for some reason. Why is it so hard to get a curved piece of plastic for the lens? We're not trying to build a pyramid, just a watch.


----------



## Sullivanjt

tokareva said:


> I'm confused, I thought you said the crystal has to be a box crystal. From the photo it looks like the crystal on a big zero and is flat on the sides and top, how can it be made in the same shape as the original?
> 
> It seems like the only technical limitation is the lens for some reason. Why is it so hard to get a curved piece of plastic for the lens? We're not trying to build a pyramid, just a watch.


I apologize; in the last post by original I meant "glass on the original case example."

I do not know the specifics of why; Dmitry stated it is because the case, hands and dial are not going to be made by Vostok. Maybe a patent issue, rather than an actual engineering one. But, that's pure speculation. All I know is that we cannot use an acrylic crystal. Dmitry stated Amphibia acrylic crystals are box type crystals, but I agree the crystal in the picture he provided looked flatter on top.


----------



## jose-CostaRica

Do we need to worry about the strap? Is there any registry of any original compressor with the strap it came from the factory with?

Unless there is a commemorative strap... or a customized vintage looking one, why not to have it without one?? Just the watch in a box

Enviado desde Costa Rica


----------



## Sullivanjt

danbranan said:


> Right on, Chascomm. Go dome or go home, as far as I'm concerned. Acrylic would be my first choice, but mineral or sapphire would be OK if it has a similar look (like what Citizen did with their Chandler chronograph's mineral crystal to give it a vintage look - see image below). But I have zero interest in a non-domed crystal for this project.
> 
> View attachment 15093609


Reading back through some of the comments - I think this is a good suggestion. I will ask what material would get us closest to this shape, since it seems to be the closest to the original acrylic. Maybe ask for additional pictures of the crystal he has on the original case example.


----------



## StrangeQuark

Looking on Meranom.com, the Amfibians all have domed acrylic crystals and are 39 or 41 mm (there might be a 40 mm somewhere but I didn't see one just poking around). So I would think Dimitry should be able to source an appropriate domed acrylic crystal, but if not surely a domed mineral crystal could be found. I also don't see how that would affect watertightness. My vintage Amfibian and my new Komandirskie 650539 (from Meranom) both have 200 meters water resistance and they both have acrylic domed crystals. Anyway, I agree, Sullivanjt, that asking Dimitry about other options is a good idea. I really do appreciate you taking the lead on this and putting up with our critiques


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

danbranan said:


> Looking on Meranom.com, the Amfibians all have domed acrylic crystals and are 39 or 41 mm (there might be a 40 mm somewhere but I didn't see one just poking around). So I would think Dimitry should be able to source an appropriate domed acrylic crystal, but if not surely a domed mineral crystal could be found. I also don't see how that would affect watertightness. My vintage Amfibian and my new Komandirskie 650539 (from Meranom) both have 200 meters water resistance and they both have acrylic domed crystals. Anyway, I agree, Sullivanjt, that asking Dimitry about other options is a good idea. I really do appreciate you taking the lead on this and putting up with our critiques


It may have to do with the tension ring: it should be easy to source an acrylic crystal with the right diameter and shape, but it won't have a tension ring.

(The crystal on regular Amphibias is much smaller than on this case, as it fits in the inside diameter of the bezel.)


----------



## Bandido

Miguel Fazendas said:


> (The crystal on regular Amphibias is much smaller than on this case, as it fits in the inside diameter of the bezel.)


Exactly!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Sullivanjt said:


> I'd appreciate the help. With a dial and bezel example to show, even if we re-work them further, I think more people would be inclined to take the project seriously.


I'll do my best!

Do you think we can get exact measurements for the bezel (inside and outside diameter) and dial (exact outside diameter and hands orifice diameter)? And the dimension and position of the date window.

Cheers!


----------



## thomas1888

Would it not be quite cool to have 'РАЗРАБОТАНО В СССР” (designed / developed in the USSR) printed at the bottom of the dial? That'd get even closer to the original. I believe this is what was done with a Desert Shield reissue.


----------



## Sullivanjt

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I'll do my best!
> 
> Do you think we can get exact measurements for the bezel (inside and outside diameter) and dial (exact outside diameter and hands orifice diameter)? And the dimension and position of the date window.
> 
> Cheers!


I can try; that would either mean asking someone with with an original if they have all the dimensions you just requested, or asking Dmitry what he recommendations are for said dimensions. The original dimensions are obviously ideal, but I'm not sure if any one of the 20 or so people that has one is willing to go get their watch taken apart just to give us that information haha


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Sullivanjt said:


> I can try; that would either mean asking someone with with an original if they have all the dimensions you just requested, or asking Dmitry what he recommendations are for said dimensions. The original dimensions are obviously ideal, but I'm not sure if any one of the 20 or so people that has one is willing to go get their watch taken apart just to give us that information haha


I bet you are right  the date window is probably located in the same position and has the same size as other Vostoks, as the date wheel is standard (thinking about that, I don't know if we can source a date wheel with the original font). The hands orifice must be the same as other Vostoks too.

For the rest (bezel inside and outside diameters, dial outside diameter if not standard) Dmitry can probably deduct them from the case, I suspect!


----------



## MattBrace

I consider myself very lucky to own an original example of the King with two Crowns, if I can help with dimensions or pictures let me know, the crystal has no retaining ring like a standard Amphibian, it appears to be pressed or bonded into the case.

Cheers...


----------



## Sullivanjt

MattBrace said:


> I consider myself very lucky to own an original example of the King with two Crowns, if I can help with dimensions or pictures let me know, the crystal has no retaining ring like a standard Amphibian, it appears to be pressed or bonded into the case.
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> View attachment 15100029
> 
> View attachment 15100065
> 
> View attachment 15100033
> 
> View attachment 15100035
> 
> View attachment 15100045


I was literally typing a PM to you about this as you replied to this thread. Thank you for the offer!


----------



## stevarad

interested.

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## Vadik97

Hi! I will definitely participate in the project! would prefer sapphire crystal, even if the cost rises.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

MattBrace said:


> I consider myself very lucky to own an original example of the King with two Crowns, if I can help with dimensions or pictures let me know, the crystal has no retaining ring like a standard Amphibian, it appears to be pressed or bonded into the case.
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> View attachment 15100029
> 
> View attachment 15100065
> 
> View attachment 15100033
> 
> View attachment 15100035
> 
> View attachment 15100045


That is brilliant!!  Congratulations!

I wouldn't ask you to measure the bezel (only if you think you can do it without hardships) but is there a chance of a flat "plan" view in high-res of the face of the watch? That would be a great reference! 

(If you feel like it, a profile picture with no angle would be interesting too, to see the shape of the dome.)


----------



## stevoe

24h said:


> Something like this?...


Maybe...


----------



## Sayan

I am definitely in. Looking forward to the updates!


----------



## MattBrace

Miguel Fazendas said:


> MattBrace said:
> 
> 
> 
> I consider myself very lucky to own an original example of the King with two Crowns, if I can help with dimensions or pictures let me know, the crystal has no retaining ring like a standard Amphibian, it appears to be pressed or bonded into the case.
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> View attachment 15100029
> 
> View attachment 15100065
> 
> View attachment 15100033
> 
> View attachment 15100035
> 
> View attachment 15100045
> 
> 
> 
> That is brilliant!! ? Congratulations!
> 
> I wouldn't ask you to measure the bezel (only if you think you can do it without hardships) but is there a chance of a flat "plan" view in high-res of the face of the watch? That would be a great reference! ?
> 
> (If you feel like it, a profile picture with no angle would be interesting too, to see the shape of the dome.)
Click to expand...

Ok no problem give me a few days or so.

Cheers...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

MattBrace said:


> Ok no problem give me a few days or so.
> 
> Cheers...


Thank you


----------



## rokman

Just came to me that this picture came up as 'two prototypes' at the compressor case project some years ago. Never understood what they were, never got an official answer. The same watch is what Dmtry says is an original case he processes, I guess.









Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sullivanjt

tokareva said:


> I'm confused, I thought you said the crystal has to be a box crystal. From the photo it looks like the crystal on a big zero and is flat on the sides and top, how can it be made in the same shape as the original?
> 
> It seems like the only technical limitation is the lens for some reason. Why is it so hard to get a curved piece of plastic for the lens? We're not trying to build a pyramid, just a watch.


After speaking with Dmitry, he acknowledges the sample he has is only slightly rounded on top, with sharper edges, as we can see. But, they can make the box crystal with a rounder shape. To what degree, I am not certain. So, of the options we have, a rounded box crystal would be closest to the original, rather than a domed crystal.

We're getting there, one step at a time!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Sullivanjt said:


> After speaking with Dmitry, he acknowledges the sample he has is only slightly rounded on top, with sharper edges, as we can see. But, they can make the box crystal with a rounder shape. To what degree, I am not certain. So, of the options we have, a rounded box crystal would be closest to the original, rather than a domed crystal.
> 
> We're getting there, one step at a time!


Those are good news!

But, if I may ask: if we have an original case and can reproduce it perfectly, and if the original crystal doesn't have a tension ring, why can't a domed crystal be sourced? Is the thickness required not available?

(I confess that in the event that the watch comes with a box crystal, the first thing I'll do is order a domed one from cousins, even if it compromises its WR.)


----------



## rokman

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Those are good news!
> 
> But, if I may ask: if we have an original case and can reproduce it perfectly, and if the original crystal doesn't have a tension ring, why can't a domed crystal be sourced? Is the thickness required not available?
> 
> (I confess that in the event that the watch comes with a box crystal, the first thing I'll do is order a domed one from cousins, even if it compromises its WR.)


I thought that a box crystal is what we all wanted?

Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk


----------



## miroman

Miguel Fazendas said:


> ...if we have an original case and can reproduce it perfectly...


I hope it not will be done! A perfect 'reproduced' case is a counterfeit!

I'm pretty sure there will be attempts to sell 'reproduced' case for original. This shouldn't be allowed.

Regards, Miro.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

rokman said:


> I thought that a box crystal is what we all wanted?
> 
> Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk


I think it's a compromise Meranom suggested, closer to the original domed crystal, instead of a flat mineral or sapphire glass.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

miroman said:


> I hope it not will be done! A perfect 'reproduced' case is a counterfeit!
> 
> I'm pretty sure there will be attempts to sell 'reproduced' case for original. This shouldn't be allowed.
> 
> Regards, Miro.


That's a different discussion on a different level, of course, and I don't know what to say about it.

But from a technical perspective, I suspect things like the way the crowns will work and interact with the bezel will end up being slightly different -there's an outsourced manufacturer that will tweak things to their production capabilities and techniques, so it's likely that even if dimensionally correct they won't be truly interchangeable.

But I don't know, I'm just speculating: I don't have any inside knowledge of the project.

But I see the pertinence in what you're saying (maybe it's possible to introduce a small inconspicuous something that makes clear it's not an original -like on the dial- or that makes it incompatible with the original).


----------



## Kotsov

miroman said:


> I hope it not will be done! A perfect 'reproduced' case is a counterfeit!
> 
> Regards, Miro.


It isn't.

A counterfeit is intended to deceive.


----------



## Bandido

Kotsov said:


> It isn't.
> 
> A counterfeit is intended to deceive.


This reminds me an argument with some "purist" about Casio modding. 
The most important thing is why.


----------



## Sullivanjt

Update on a couple things:

- Meranom/Vostok has begun 3D modeling of the case, to meet the specifications of the example they have on hand.

- I have provided Dmitry some additional examples of the crystal in profile, he says they should be able to re-create that shape in sapphire (example below, provided by user dinkan):















- User Miguel Fazendas has been kind enough to begin using vector modeling to re-create the dial; see attached picture below. Once we have the dimensions, we can refine it further. The dial has the old-school Vostok logo, an updated jewel count to reflect the movement inside, and "Made in Russia" on the dial, as discussed.

I'm going to continue updating the thread as more information comes in. It seems, however, that we're on a good path to getting a very similar-looking watch to the original! I would encourage anyone viewing this to (1) go vote, whether in favor or against, and (2) encourage others to do the same, to determine whether or not we will have to numbers to ultimately place an order and call this an official forum project.


----------



## Kotsov

Fantastic


----------



## tokareva

That *is* fantastic news. Please tell me we won't have to decide between the two dials , Can we buy the watch with dial of choice and be able to buy the other dial only, so we can change it later?

At this point I'm loving that all green dial 

If we can't buy a different dial separately though I guess I'll have to buy both watches. :roll:. o|


----------



## Kotsov

tokareva said:


> That *is* fantastic news. Please tell me we won't have to decide between the two dials , Can we buy the watch with dial of choice and be able to buy the other dial only, so we can change it later?
> 
> At this point I'm loving that all green dial


I prefer the orange and green for contrast


----------



## Bandido

I think it is too early to discuss such an options like the ability of two dials))).
But the progress is just amazing. I'm crossing fingers for the success.


----------



## hoja_roja

Im super excited looking this going forward!!

and Moito Obrigado to Miguel for the starting work!


----------



## MattBrace

I have a day off tomorrow so will have time to upload pictures and some dimensions. 

Cheers...


----------



## Sayan

Great news, i really like the dial on the left.


----------



## Sayan

Sullivanjt said:


> Update on a couple things:
> 
> - Meranom/Vostok has begun 3D modeling of the case, to meet the specifications of the example they have on hand.


Is it possible to ask them to make the lug width 20mm?


----------



## Sullivanjt

Sayan said:


> Is it possible to ask them to make the lug width 20mm?


Sorry man, the goal of the project is to re-create the watch as closely as possible, to include the 18mm strap width.


----------



## JOEY10121

OrangeOrange said:


> Can we also bring back the original crimped metal crowns of the Amphibias? I prefer those to the stainless crowns that we have today. According to a representative at Meranom, they haven't been producing the crimped metal crowns. Also if possible, can the original fonts of the Soviet watch be used in the reproduction watch?


I very well agree with the crimped crown. Why did they even discontinue it?
Vostok, SMH..............


----------



## Bandido

JOEY10121 said:


> I very well agree with the crimped crown. Why did they even discontinue it?
> Vostok, SMH..............


The old crown has it's charm, but seems like it less robust and reliable comparing to solid steel crown.


----------



## collector210

It's a good project and I hope it comes out successful *fingers crossed*.
For now we can't suggest but if it's a success, I will wish for a 20mm.


----------



## Christopher-N

I watching this closely and very interested, if it stays close to the original intent that is. Definitely 18mm lug width (whats wrong with you people wanting 20? 18mm is so much more elegant and comfortable to wear). Has to be the original amphibia case back - don't mess with perfection. 
I'm quite happy with a shaped box crystal. I have several watches with them, they look to all intense purposes just like an acrylic if done right and this would be the defining difference that the watch needs.
Whats this voting thing all about???? .......I'm of a certain age where I have enough trouble working out how to post here let alone introducing something else for me to think about


----------



## Christopher-N

I'm watching this closely and very interested, if it stays close to the original intent that is. Definitely 18mm lug width (whats wrong with you people wanting 20? 18mm is so much more elegant and comfortable to wear). Has to be the original amphibia case back - don't mess with perfection. 
I'm quite happy with a shaped box crystal. I have several watches with them, they look to all intense purposes just like an acrylic if done right and this would be the defining difference that the watch needs.
Whats this voting thing all about???? .......I'm of a certain age where I have enough trouble working out how to post here let alone introducing something else for me to think about


----------



## MattBrace

Dial Diameter is 28.3mm
Bezel I.D is 26.25mm
Bezel O.D is hard to measure as it can't be removed from the case but 33.45mm approx

Lots of pictures following, I hope this helps, best I can do with the light.

Cheers...


----------



## MattBrace

More Pictures, from when I purchased the watch, thanks to Dutch.

Cheers...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

MattBrace said:


> More Pictures, from when I purchased the watch, thanks to Dutch.
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> View attachment 15113735
> 
> View attachment 15113737
> 
> View attachment 15113739


Thank you so much! That info is brilliant!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Thank you everyone for the kind words!
This is a super interesting dial and bezel to design (each numeral of the bezel, for instance, is individually drawn to account for the bezel curvature: really neat stuff)!

A finalized design for both the bezel and dial should come soon! 

Cheers!!


----------



## jose-CostaRica

Amazing the progress you guys are making on this project. The key is not letting the ball to drop. So exciting, thank you for the hard continued work

Enviado desde Costa Rica


----------



## detroie

[QUOTE = jose-CostaRica; 51625443] Нужно ли нам беспокоиться о ремне? Есть ли реестр какого-либо оригинального компрессора с ремешком, с которого он поставляется с завода?

Если нет памятного ремня ... или индивидуального винтажного вида, почему бы не иметь его без него? Просто часы в коробке

Enviado Desde Коста-Рика  [/ QUOTE]

The best strap from Meranom was for НВЧ 30.


----------



## Bandido

detroie said:


> [QUOTE = jose-CostaRica; 51625443] Нужно ли нам беспокоиться о ремне? Есть ли реестр какого-либо оригинального компрессора с ремешком, с которого он поставляется с завода?
> 
> Если нет памятного ремня ... или индивидуального винтажного вида, почему бы не иметь его без него? Просто часы в коробке
> 
> Enviado Desde Коста-Рика  [/ QUOTE]
> 
> The best strap from Meranom was for НВЧ 30.


I can imagine some bund strap.
Могу представить какой-нибудь напульсник.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Bandido said:


> I can imagine some bund strap.
> Могу представить какой-нибудь напульсник.


If any strap is included, maybe I'd suggest a metal bracelet adjusted to the case.

I confess I'm not a big fan of metal bracelets, but other types of straps will be easy to find and make work with the watch. On the other hand though, if one wants a metal bracelet integrated with the case design it's pretty much impossible. It has to come with the watch.


----------



## Bandido

Seems like reasonable compromise is to have no straps or bracelets))).


But this will be a 99% completed job...

In this case an integrated metal bracelet appears smart.


----------



## Sullivanjt

Miguel Fazendas said:


> If any strap is included, maybe I'd suggest a metal bracelet adjusted to the case.
> 
> I confess I'm not a big fan of metal bracelets, but other types of straps will be easy to find and make work with the watch. On the other hand though, if one wants a metal bracelet integrated with the case design it's pretty much impossible. It has to come with the watch.


I think my issue with a metal bracelet specifically made for the watch would be price. We're already looking at USD $300+ according to Dmitry, and that's not the final price just yet. Developing new end links for the case and a high-quality bracelet would definitely add to the cost. I'd almost prefer to receive the watch without a strap, which shaves the price down a little and allows everyone to pick their own strap separately. But, we'll see what most people want.


----------



## stevarad

I am so exvited because of positive development. Thank you guys!!

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## Bandido

The watch will be pricey. No doubts.
This project is an ambitious story and (I hope) nobody wait something less than 300.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Sullivanjt said:


> I think my issue with a metal bracelet specifically made for the watch would be price. We're already looking at USD $300+ according to Dmitry, and that's not the final price just yet. Developing new end links for the case and a high-quality bracelet would definitely add to the cost. I'd almost prefer to receive the watch without a strap, which shaves the price down a little and allows everyone to pick their own strap separately. But, we'll see what most people want.


Indeed, and I imagine that's how the original one was supplied, without strap.

Enviado do meu iPad usando o Tapatalk


----------



## Bandido

I would like you guys to take a look at this.


----------



## Sullivanjt

Bandido said:


> I would like you guys to take a look at this.


This is great! Where did you find this information?


----------



## jose-CostaRica

It will be lovely to have a 18mm version of the 1967 bracelet for this one

Enviado desde Costa Rica


----------



## Bandido

Sullivanjt said:


> This is great! Where did you find this information?


I've downloaded some pdf scans of ussr watch catalogues several years ago. Will try to find the source web site.


----------



## Bandido

Here is a clumsy translation from the catalogue.

Vostok 2416b 300158

The case is circular. There are two crowns on the case, one of which is for a movement winding and setting the hands, another one is for setting the rotary ring position. The glass is circular, acrylic.

The dial is double detailed with an additional refinement. It contains a rotary ring and a black disk. The rotary scale digits are imprinted with white. The rest of marks are orange.
The initial triangular index of the scale has a continuous luminescent on it.

On the disk. Minutes scale, signs and signatures are salad-green. Number 12 and the stripes are orange. Each 5 minute mark has a continuous luminescent.
Hands. Flat, nickel plated, filled with continuous luminous composition inside the windows.


----------



## LeDocteur

Sullivanjt said:


> Update on a couple things:
> 
> - Meranom/Vostok has begun 3D modeling of the case, to meet the specifications of the example they have on hand.
> 
> - I have provided Dmitry some additional examples of the crystal in profile, he says they should be able to re-create that shape in sapphire (example below, provided by user dinkan):
> View attachment 15112099
> 
> View attachment 15112101
> 
> 
> - User Miguel Fazendas has been kind enough to begin using vector modeling to re-create the dial; see attached picture below. Once we have the dimensions, we can refine it further. The dial has the old-school Vostok logo, an updated jewel count to reflect the movement inside, and "Made in Russia" on the dial, as discussed.
> 
> I'm going to continue updating the thread as more information comes in. It seems, however, that we're on a good path to getting a very similar-looking watch to the original! I would encourage anyone viewing this to (1) go vote, whether in favor or against, and (2) encourage others to do the same, to determine whether or not we will have to numbers to ultimately place an order and call this an official forum project.
> 
> View attachment 15112097


The same shape with sapphire ! 
Fantastic !

I hope the project will succeed


----------



## Confuse-a-cat

Sullivanjt said:


> Thank you for bringing this up. Yes, there is an actual poll that I would like as many people to vote on as possible, whether it's positive or negative. The numbers can inform my decision on whether or not there are enough people to make the project viable. 300 is doable, I think, but seems pretty high right now considering I can only point to 25 or so that are "officially" interested!


I'm Officially interested


----------



## Marijn2

Wow!! this is a really fantastic initiative guys. Thanks a lot!
I am definitely officially interested. Acrylic or sapphire would be my choice if the shape can be like the original (more or less). A mineral would be a deal breaker for me.
Really exiting this is!
I will be following this and I will sign the Poll now 🙂
Best,
Marijn


----------



## StrangeQuark

Wow! This is really coming together nicely. Thanks to Matt Brace for the photos of the original watch. I had been under the erroneous impression that the crystal was domed, but it is indeed a shaped box crystal with a slightly convex top. If Dimitry can get us that shape of crystal (and it looks that that is so), then I'll be very happy with it. Thanks to SullivanJT and everyone else who is making this happen.


----------



## ArtemKuzminykh

I am interested!


----------



## hoja_roja

The bracelet in the catalogue looks like those "light" zim bracelets.....


----------



## Bandido

Actually I have a doubt about the bracelet from catalogue. It's appearance does not impress me. I've just posted the info about the origin and how it was.
The only thing abot this beacelet is that second link wider than 18mm. It gives the options.


----------



## fliegerchrono

Count me in!


----------



## tokareva

Can someone who is also a member of watch.ru gather the number if comrades there who are interested in the project? I would do it myself but it would be hard to do without the ability to speak Russian. 

Whoever does it will have to remember not to count comrades twice who have already voted here, obviously.

We also need a representative from relojes especiales to do the same don't we?


----------



## Marijn2

I posted a link to this thread on Horlogeforum.nl (Netherlands) in one of the Russian watch threads with a little explaining about the possible project and the need to fill in the poll👍


----------



## Sullivanjt

tokareva said:


> Can someone who is also a member of watch.ru gather the number if comrades there who are interested in the project? I would do it myself but it would be hard to do without the ability to speak Russian.
> 
> Whoever does it will have to remember not to count comrades twice who have already voted here, obviously.
> 
> We also need a representative from relojes especiales to do the same don't we?


I might make a watches.ru account - it would give me a good opportunity to practice my Russian.


----------



## Fergfour

I'll post a thread link on both watch.ru and relojes-especiales.com


----------



## Ruastur

I'm interested. It's a great watch.


----------



## Sullivanjt

Since we're inviting people from other forums to come view the thread, I'll put out this update: bezel design, courtesy of user Miguel Fazendas.


----------



## Bandido

tokareva said:


> Can someone who is also a member of watch.ru gather the number if comrades there who are interested in the project? I would do it myself but it would be hard to do without the ability to speak Russian.
> 
> Whoever does it will have to remember not to count comrades twice who have already voted here, obviously.
> 
> We also need a representative from relojes especiales to do the same don't we?


Seems like the heads of that forum are far from this project and moreover from the persons, who are involved in the Compressor reissue. I cannot guarantee, but have a huge feeling that they will not allow a separate topic for this project on their territory. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've already tried to create a poll topic in a relevant section there. It did not appear. No explanation. Just silence.


----------



## tokareva

Bandido said:


> Seems like the heads of that forum are far from this project and moreover from the persons, who are involved in the Compressor reissue. I cannot guarantee, but have a huge feeling that they will not allow a separate topic for this project on their territory. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've already tried to create a poll topic in a relevant section there. It did not appear. No explanation. Just silence.


Oh that's right ,I forgot about that but knew you had mentioned it, thank you comrade. What is the problem with this project though? Do they feel threatened because it could be better than the previous compressor or something?


----------



## 24h

Bandido said:


> Seems like the heads of that forum are far from this project and moreover from the persons, who are involved in the Compressor reissue. I cannot guarantee, but have a huge feeling that they will not allow a separate topic for this project on their territory. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've already tried to create a poll topic in a relevant section there. It did not appear. No explanation. Just silence.


They allowed me to post a thread for the Elektronika project.
If I remember correctly, I asked one of the admins/moderators before posting and I made clear that it was a Watchuseek project unaffiliated with Watch.ru.


----------



## tokareva

Everything looks great so far but I have a dumb question. This is *NOT* a complaint. On the original it seems that the numbers on the bezel are not centered with the hour markers. Why did they make it that way? Should we copy the way it came originally because it makes the watch look more interesting or visually appealing somehow?


----------



## Bandido

tokareva said:


> Everything looks great so far but I have a dumb question. This is *NOT* a complaint. On the original it seems that the numbers on the bezel are not centered with the hour markers. Why did they make it that way? Should we copy the way it came originally because it makes the watch look more interesting or visually appealing somehow?
> 
> View attachment 15119121
> View attachment 15119123


Maybe it was just an imperfection which we are trying to sell ourselves as an additional attractive touch?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Everything looks great so far but I have a dumb question. This is *NOT* a complaint. On the original it seems that the numbers on the bezel are not centered with the hour markers. Why did they make it that way? Should we copy the way it came originally because it makes the watch look more interesting or visually appealing somehow?
> 
> View attachment 15119121
> View attachment 15119123


That's a very pertinent question!  I myself had that in my mind a lot.

I think the lumed triangle was painted at a phase posterior to the bezel printing and -I don't know why, maybe due to a technical limitation- its positioning wasn't very precise.

I reached this conclusion because the misalignment varies from watch to watch: some are closer to the mark, others are way off. It's too inconsistent to be intentional.

So, I believe this wasn't a design problem (and surely not a design intention) but a technical limitation: I felt there was no reason for us to not try and do it right.


----------



## tokareva

Bandido said:


> Maybe it was just an imperfection which we are trying to sell ourselves as an additional attractive touch?


That could be it, or possibly for some important reason that was discovered during the design of the watch originally and has now been lost to time, like the construction of the pyramids. :-d


----------



## MattBrace

I'm very interested in this project, I totally agree that it needs to be a close replica of the original, original style crowns, old style date ring font and old style hand sets. it's a superb watch perhaps one of Vostoks best. My only concern is people trying to pass these of as original. I guess it's a tough balance keeping that vintage original look but using modern manufacturing techniques internally.
Will case backs be numbered 001 of 300?

Great job so far guys.
Cheers...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

MattBrace said:


> I'm very interested in this project, I totally agree that it needs to be a close replica of the original, original style crowns, old style date ring font and old style hand sets. it's a superb watch perhaps one of Vostoks best. My only concern is people trying to pass these of as original. I guess it's a tough balance keeping that vintage original look but using modern manufacturing techniques internally.
> Will case backs be numbered 001 of 300?
> 
> Great job so far guys.
> Cheers...


Of course, that difficulty exists with every reissue.

The dial will have a different jewel count and "made in Russia": we're safe there.

Maybe the case can have a marking on the back too that will distinguish it from an original, for instance.


----------



## pump 19

MattBrace said:


> My only concern is people trying to pass these of as original.


Earlier in the thread there's a rendition of the dial with suggested lettering. If this is the way it goes I'd think any confusion should be pretty much eliminated.


----------



## Sullivanjt

MattBrace said:


> I'm very interested in this project, I totally agree that it needs to be a close replica of the original, original style crowns, old style date ring font and old style hand sets. it's a superb watch perhaps one of Vostoks best. My only concern is people trying to pass these of as original. I guess it's a tough balance keeping that vintage original look but using modern manufacturing techniques internally.
> Will case backs be numbered 001 of 300?
> 
> Great job so far guys.
> Cheers...


Thanks for the question, I know a lot of people are concerned about forgeries/frankenwatches. I think the numbered caseback is probably the easiest way of differentiating this edition from the vintage.

I don't know if this would happen, but I would love to see this model become a regular in the Vostok collection - it would make replacement parts easier in the future and draw a lot of people into Russian watches, I think. Obviously that's not up to us, but if a lot of people do end up requesting one, then I could see it. Plus, this watch is the draw for me, not necessarily having a "limited" edition.

In that case, it may be more pertinent to change something on the back, rather than number it. Perhaps just the words "modern edition," or something that specifies that it is not an original case, but allows for future editions to be made. That would definitely be a vote by everyone, once the project is determined viable and we can move forward.


----------



## Bandido

tokareva said:


> That could be it, or possibly for some important reason that was discovered during the design of the watch originally and has now been lost to time, like the construction of the pyramids. :-d


Nice try, though)))). Also we can bind the Great wall and Nazca desert lines)))).

Apart this joke.
We can make some dedication by misaligning one number. Just turn in for a noticeable angle. I think about 20 minutes mark, for example. It is a year (2020) of this project start.
I've search a little about the year of manufacturing the original watches and it can be 1990 - 1991 So it may be another candidate - 30 min as an anniversary.
Just an idea which can take us one step out from the original look, so it is nothing to do actually and leave it as is.


----------



## Marijn2

tokareva said:


> Everything looks great so far but I have a dumb question. This is *NOT* a complaint. On the original it seems that the numbers on the bezel are not centered with the hour markers. Why did they make it that way? Should we copy the way it came originally because it makes the watch look more interesting or visually appealing somehow?
> 
> View attachment 15119121
> View attachment 15119123


It seems that there is some alignment though. after looking at the pics it seems that the (last) digits of a specific number have been outlined opposite of the last digit of the number 180 degrees accross the dial. For instance the 5 of the 55 seems to have a connection with the 5 of the 25. The 5 of the 35 seems to have the same thing going on with the 5 minute mark. It still seems a bit inconsistent but I think it looks appealing though. maybe better then a perfectly alligned bezel. It definitely doesn't trigger my OCD  If it was up to me I think we should keep it some sort of inconsistent like the originals.


----------



## Bandido

Original position of 5 is annoying.


----------



## pump 19

Marijn2 said:


> If it was up to me I think we should keep it some sort of inconsistent like the originals.


Not sure what the reasoning/pattern was behind the bezel numbering but I favor recreating it. The only changes I would favor are the dial lettering changes, "31" jewel count and "made in Russia." Whenever possible I support keeping the rest of the details exactly like the original(s). That would include the design of the back cover and omission of any limited edition numbering. For me the truer this is to the original the more easily I can justify the $300+ cost.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

All the numbers are perfectly aligned, in fact.  It's the lume triangle that isn't!

But, of course, our first intuition is to align the triangle and, so, all the numbers will be out of whack.

For me, it would be a disservice to the original designers to perpetuate something that for sure they didn't want to happen (and a sign of occasionally not having the best production practices). They were meant to align (correct time measuring depends on that) and, on the luckier examples, they almost do.


----------



## pump 19

Miguel Fazendas said:


> They were meant to align (correct time measuring depends on that) and, on the luckier examples, they almost do.


I haven't seen enough examples to spot the variations. Will have to keep looking.


----------



## pump 19

Duplicate


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Nice project... Indeed. Thanks for it!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

This is really interesting stuff, so forgive me to dig so deep in it. 

There are actually 4 (!!) different designs in the original bezel for the "5" digit alone. All of them are a careful consequence of the alignments they were designed to have.

Here they are:









As you can see, they are symmetrical to an axis at their center, which is in line with any hour (or minute) marker chosen.

If they were designed to align in a different way, their design would have to be different: as they are it wouldn't work. This is what we usually see:









As a demonstration, if the lone 5 minutes mark were designed to align to the right, it would look like this:









Sorry for nerding out on this.  But it's pretty cool.


----------



## tokareva

Bandido said:


> Original position of 5 is annoying.


Maybe, but it's making you see the 5 instead of a lume dot, it's kind of interesting looking. Maybe it was accidental but it's still the result. I'm not suggesting either way, just an observation.


----------



## RafaGalvez

Nice project, newcomer and I find this .. I stay here, thanks.


----------



## Fergfour

I think on the original they were interested in keeping the space between the numbers consistent more so than lining the numbers up with the hour markers.
One thing I like is how they made equal black space between the 55 and the triangle and the triangle and the 5. That looks nice and symmetrical to me. They then continued with that spacing between the 5-10 and 10-15 because those numbers are fairly close in size (the 1's add a little). The oddball is the space between the 15-20 as it's the only place where you have a 2-digit number with a 1 and a 2-digit number with no 1. After that the spacing between the 20 thru the 55 is about the same.

Have the white minute markers already been decided? Seems bright compared to the original. Also I was thinking one way to make it distinguishable from the original would be to move those orange lines between the 45-50-55-v to v-5-10-15. This might reduce the crowding of the numbers between 45 and triangle and fill the space a little on the other side where the numbers are smaller.


----------



## Christopher-N

Miguel Fazendas said:


> That's a very pertinent question!  I myself had that in my mind a lot.
> 
> I think the lumed triangle was painted at a phase posterior to the bezel printing and -I don't know why, maybe due to a technical limitation- its positioning wasn't very precise.
> 
> I reached this conclusion because the misalignment varies from watch to watch: some are closer to the mark, others are way off. It's too inconsistent to be intentional.
> 
> So, I believe this wasn't a design problem (and surely not a design intention) but a technical limitation: I felt there was no reason for us to not try and do it right.


I'm pretty certain looking at this that is was intentional. If you look at the spacing of the 5's either side of the triangle it is even. Change the position to line up with the hour marker and you get an offset at the top that would look plain awful.


----------



## Christopher-N

To go back to the crystal discussion, Here is one of my watches with a shaped sapphire box crystal. I would be quite happy with this.


----------



## Fergfour

In other news, I made the posts on RE and WRU yesterday and the comments/questions have begun. 
Sullivanjt I see you registered on watch.ru, might as well register on relojes especiales too


----------



## tokareva

Comrade *Fergfour* , I think you may have discovered the hidden "code". I ask that this deliberate equal spacing of the numbers theory be further investigated.

However, I don't agree with changing anything about the lines.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> View attachment 15120625
> 
> 
> I think on the original they were interested in keeping the space between the numbers consistent more so than lining the numbers up with the hour markers.
> One thing I like is how they made equal black space between the 55 and the triangle and the triangle and the 5. That looks nice and symmetrical to me. They then continued with that spacing between the 5-10 and 10-15 because those numbers are fairly close in size (the 1's add a little). The oddball is the space between the 15-20 as it's the only place where you have a 2-digit number with a 1 and a 2-digit number with no 1. After that the spacing between the 20 thru the 55 is about the same.
> 
> Have the white minute markers already been decided? Seems bright compared to the original. Also I was thinking one way to make it distinguishable from the original would be to move those orange lines between the 45-50-55-v to v-5-10-15. This might reduce the crowding of the numbers between 45 and triangle and fill the space a little on the other side where the numbers are smaller.





Christopher-N said:


> I'm pretty certain looking at this that is was intentional. If you look at the spacing of the 5's either side of the triangle it is even. Change the position to line up with the hour marker and you get an offset at the top that would look plain awful.


Hi guys: thank you for your comments.

If you look closely, you'll see that the spacing is consistent only when the numbers' size is the same: the spaces between 5, 10 and 15 are different. All of those spacings are an exact match to what we designed, though.

The only spacing difference between the original and the design you've seen is with the triangle, but I believe this design specification is a match to the original design specification. (And, if you look closely to the original, the space to the left of the triangle is slightly larger than the space to the right: they are not the same, so that wasn't the criteria there too.)

Lume wasn't applied on the bezel when the bezel was printed: it was usually a manual process at a later stage, hence the lack of precision.

The numbers were clearly designed to be aligned by their centers, and I'm sure the triangle was meant to be in the right spot when they were, even when the accuracy in manufacturing couldn't quite achieve it.

This has to be: it was a functional watch, meant to do a job. The bezel wouldn't measure time accurately if all its parts wouldn't align with the marks, so I'm sure the misalignment isn't intentional but a casual -but important- error. There's no purpose to it nor any aesthetic sense in it: it's just a manufacturing imprecision.

That's why I believe the original spec was to have everything aligned (To be honest, how could it not be: who would specify to make it crooked and less precise in its function?) and what we see here is a manufacturing imprecision, unwanted by both the designers and the engineers.

We don't want to give the original designers and engineers a bad name: we should follow both the original design and the original intent.

So I'm afraid there's no hidden code  the particular design of the digits is self-explanatory, and the function of the watch asks for it.

We'll have a new 31 jewels movement, a sapphire crystal, and it's fitting that the lume is applied with the precision we can have nowadays.


----------



## Frankieets

Beautiful idea i m interested 👍👍


----------



## stevarad

@Chascomm 

Is it time to make this as official project, and make dedicated subforum for it, like there is one for elektronika?

There we can have threads for varios important questions, from design to managing project questions. And formal applications of course.

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> Have the white minute markers already been decided? Seems bright compared to the original. Also I was thinking one way to make it distinguishable from the original would be to move those orange lines between the 45-50-55-v to v-5-10-15. This might reduce the crowding of the numbers between 45 and triangle and fill the space a little on the other side where the numbers are smaller.


Hi again.  I just wanted to leave a note about the colors.

We have to take into consideration that we're looking at aged dials: the vibrancy of the colors is diminished from what they originally were. So, the white in the numerals has darkened slightly, but it was white originally. The same with the lume: we're seeing it with a cream color, but it was originally closer to white, too.

The reissue will naturally age in a similiar way.


----------



## MattBrace

pump 19 said:


> MattBrace said:
> 
> 
> 
> My only concern is people trying to pass these of as original.
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier in the thread there's a rendition of the dial with suggested lettering. If this is the way it goes I'd think any confusion should be pretty much eliminated.
> View attachment 15119261
Click to expand...

Granted, the dial lettering is helpful. But there is a batch of original Soviet era NOS dials out there that could make there way into a new watch.

Hopefully the modern internals of the watch would give it away,

Cheers...


----------



## Fergfour

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Hi again.  I just wanted to leave a note about the colors.
> We have to take into consideration that we're looking at aged dials: the vibrancy of the colors is diminished from what they originally were. So, the white in the numerals has darkened slightly, but it was white originally. The same with the lume: we're seeing it with a cream color, but it was originally closer to white, too.


Fair enough, if the original minute numbers were white so be it  
Not sure I agree with your spacing assessment or assumptions about the original intent of the designers, but honestly I don't care THAT much either way what the end result is. To me the spacing differences between the 55-v-5 are evident. Super minor detail but the horizontal orange line between the 45-50-55-v see a tad higher on the original than the render.


----------



## Sullivanjt

Dmitry is working on getting a 3D render of the case complete, to get us the exact dimensions we need to complete it. But while we wait, here's an updated mockup by Miguel Fazendas on what the final product might look like:









Things that should be addressed now, while we're at this stage:

POTENTIAL FOR FRANKENWATCHES:
This is going to be inevitable; if someone wanted to , they could buy the watch, send the design off to someone, and make a complete forgery. But we shouldn't make their job easier for them.
- The dial has different printing
- I agree that we'll need to agree on something for the caseback, whther it's a limited edition number or an inscription.
- The way the bezel is designed now, with the aligned numbers, increases our ability to distinguish our copy from the original; I would say that we should keep it as it is aligned currently. If we can get more information as to why it was produced the way it is, we can discuss it. Personally, I think getting the font right was the most important aspect; if that comes out correct, then we're sitting pretty good.

CRYSTAL:
Dmitry said he can make it the domed box crystal we discussed earlier, which most people approved of. I only bring this up because I still haven't seen an actual picture of what the final product will look like, but we should be on track to getting a lookalike to the original.

PRICE:
Still no updates just yet, still looking at USD $300+. Once we get final assessments done, I can get a more accurate number for everyone. But, inevitably, the watch is not going to be cheap. Then again, I can think of a lot of watches with less interesting designs and specs that go for a lot more.

When I get more information, I'll let you all know. In the meantime, keep voting!


----------



## Bandido

tokareva said:


> Maybe, but it's making you see the 5 instead of a lume dot, it's kind of interesting looking. Maybe it was accidental but it's still the result. I'm not suggesting either way, just an observation.


Looking at 5 10 and 15 on the original dial I can not separate the ring from the whole look including indices and stripes. As a result I see it clear, that ring's numbers are not aligned with indices. Even if I close the dial and look only at the ring I see that difference between 55-V-5 and 25-30-35 spaces. 
The theory of aligned numbers around the triangle for sure has a solid platform under, but that 5 above the index looks misplaced. Maybe (eh, actually not)))) it would be ok, if all the numbers has the same space between, but this is also was failed in the original ring. But (55-V-5) and (25-30-35) spaces (again) are different. IMHO and with no regrets I vote for the aligned numbers relatively to the indices as on Miguel's dial.
Sorry it is just my own cockroaches inside the head like it is said in Russia)))))


----------



## Fergfour

Looks great!


----------



## thomas1888

thomas1888 said:


> Would it not be quite cool to have 'РАЗРАБОТАНО В СССР" (designed / developed in the USSR) printed at the bottom of the dial? That'd get even closer to the original. I believe this is what was done with a Desert Shield reissue.


Sorry for pushing my own post but does anyone have an opinion on this? I think 'Made in Russia' might be better but just throwing ideas out there. Progress looks good thus far and hope everyone is well!


----------



## Sullivanjt

thomas1888 said:


> Sorry for pushing my own post but does anyone have an opinion on this? I think 'Made in Russia' might be better but just throwing ideas out there. Progress looks good thus far and hope everyone is well!


Thank you for your input, I know it was brought up before in another, earlier thread, to hold true to the original. I think most people would like to go with "Made in Russia," to make sure there is absolutely no confusion about its origins or timeframe, especially now that we're discussing concerns about forgeries.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Fergfour said:


> In other news, I made the posts on RE and WRU yesterday and the comments/questions have begun.
> Sullivanjt I see you registered on watch.ru, might as well register on relojes especiales too


Hello, comrade...:-!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

thomas1888 said:


> Sorry for pushing my own post but does anyone have an opinion on this? I think 'Made in Russia' might be better but just throwing ideas out there. Progress looks good thus far and hope everyone is well!


Hello Thomas 

Thank you: your post was not lost (and I actually copy/pasted your text so that I had the characters)!
I was fond of the possibility of including CCCP.

The difficulty was that the lume dot divided the phrase in two parts, and "АЗРАБОТАНО | В СССР" didn't produce such an harmonious result, with the left half text compressed and the right half very spaced.

The "Made in Russia" was easier and, graphically, more similar to the original (just replacing URSS by Russia).


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> Fair enough, if the original minute numbers were white so be it
> Not sure I agree with your spacing assessment or assumptions about the original intent of the designers, but honestly I don't care THAT much either way what the end result is. To me the spacing differences between the 55-v-5 are evident. Super minor detail but the horizontal orange line between the 45-50-55-v see a tad higher on the original than the render.
> 
> View attachment 15121225
> View attachment 15121233


That's true. 

There are many inconsistencies once we start diving into it. I just had to see the maximum of references and try to understand what the intent was.

Look at these ones, for instance:
















Maybe the white and the color were printed in different stages, too.


----------



## Bandido

If you want some options for made in Russia / Made in USSR and not only Разработано в СССР
We can try 

Наследие СССР
Традиции СССР
Активы СССР
Достояние СССР

Also thesaurus gives a field of notions like
парадигма, прообраз, образец, макет, стандарт, воссоздание, обновление, возрождение

We really need this?


----------



## marctibu

Sounds good a new reissue

IMG_20180620_201135-01 by Marcos, en Flickr


----------



## marctibu

With some orange color parts are amaizing !!!



Sullivanjt said:


> Dmitry is working on getting a 3D render of the case complete, to get us the exact dimensions we need to complete it. But while we wait, here's an updated mockup by Miguel Fazendas on what the final product might look like:
> 
> View attachment 15121159
> 
> 
> Things that should be addressed now, while we're at this stage:
> 
> POTENTIAL FOR FRANKENWATCHES:
> This is going to be inevitable; if someone wanted to , they could buy the watch, send the design off to someone, and make a complete forgery. But we shouldn't make their job easier for them.
> - The dial has different printing
> - I agree that we'll need to agree on something for the caseback, whther it's a limited edition number or an inscription.
> - The way the bezel is designed now, with the aligned numbers, increases our ability to distinguish our copy from the original; I would say that we should keep it as it is aligned currently. If we can get more information as to why it was produced the way it is, we can discuss it. Personally, I think getting the font right was the most important aspect; if that comes out correct, then we're sitting pretty good.
> 
> CRYSTAL:
> Dmitry said he can make it the domed box crystal we discussed earlier, which most people approved of. I only bring this up because I still haven't seen an actual picture of what the final product will look like, but we should be on track to getting a lookalike to the original.
> 
> PRICE:
> Still no updates just yet, still looking at USD $300+. Once we get final assessments done, I can get a more accurate number for everyone. But, inevitably, the watch is not going to be cheap. Then again, I can think of a lot of watches with less interesting designs and specs that go for a lot more.
> 
> When I get more information, I'll let you all know. In the meantime, keep voting!


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

marctibu said:


> Sounds good a new reissue
> 
> IMG_20180620_201135-01 by Marcos, en Flickr


You....!

Beautiful!!


----------



## Bandido

Another thing.
The original watch has just a lume dots on dial.
The WRU reissue by MEranom has a metal frame which is elegant.









Any thoughts about?


----------



## tokareva

Bandido said:


> Another thing.
> The original watch has just a lume dots on dial.
> The WRU reissue by MEranom has a metal frame which is elegant.
> 
> View attachment 15121747
> 
> 
> Any thoughts about?


I think you're forgetting the goal of original design comrade :-d , no additional embellishments are necessary.

Plus you already have that watch :roll:. :-d


----------



## Bandido

dpl


----------



## Bandido

tokareva said:


> I think you're forgetting the goal of original design comrade :-d , no additional embellishments are necessary.
> 
> Plus you already have that watch :roll:. :-d


[crying in the corner]
))))just kidding

nope)) I have a no date version))))


----------



## Dave51

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Hi guys: thank you for your comments.
> 
> If you look closely, you'll see that the spacing is consistent only when the numbers' size is the same: the spaces between 5, 10 and 15 are different. All of those spacings are an exact match to what we designed, though.
> 
> The only spacing difference between the original and the design you've seen is with the triangle, but I believe this design specification is a match to the original design specification. (And, if you look closely to the original, the space to the left of the triangle is slightly larger than the space to the right: they are not the same, so that wasn't the criteria there too.)
> 
> Lume wasn't applied on the bezel when the bezel was printed: it was usually a manual process at a later stage, hence the lack of precision.
> 
> The numbers were clearly designed to be aligned by their centers, and I'm sure the triangle was meant to be in the right spot when they were, even when the accuracy in manufacturing couldn't quite achieve it.
> 
> This has to be: it was a functional watch, meant to do a job. The bezel wouldn't measure time accurately if all its parts wouldn't align with the marks, so I'm sure the misalignment isn't intentional but a casual -but important- error. There's no purpose to it nor any aesthetic sense in it: it's just a manufacturing imprecision.
> 
> That's why I believe the original spec was to have everything aligned (To be honest, how could it not be: who would specify to make it crooked and less precise in its function?) and what we see here is a manufacturing imprecision, unwanted by both the designers and the engineers.
> 
> We don't want to give the original designers and engineers a bad name: we should follow both the original design and the original intent.
> 
> So I'm afraid there's no hidden code  the particular design of the digits is self-explanatory, and the function of the watch asks for it.
> 
> We'll have a new 31 jewels movement, a sapphire crystal, and it's fitting that the lume is applied with the precision we can have nowadays.


I agree 100% This will not be a 100% reproduction. It will, however be quite true to the original design. The watch was designed with a function. The spacing of the numbers on the dial had a critical function. This is a dive watch. If it has the proper crystal, it will be fully functional. Some divers even dive with their dive watches these days. It is hard to imagine that a dive watch designer would design a dive watch with a bezel that was inaccurate or hard to read.

This watch will have other improvements, why not include the benefits of improved quality control and accuracy among them?


----------



## Dave51

By the way, I am interested, but hesitate to vote because the price is not yet hard. If it becomes too expensive I don't want my vote to throw things off.


----------



## Bandido

Actually the original Vostok was not a true super compressor, because the bezel rotation was not allowed under water. All crowns had to be screwed on during the diving.


----------



## tokareva

Comrades, comrade Bandido and myself think it might be a good idea to advertise this project on the same place as the Luna dude project. If they can sell 600 of that watch this one should easily sell over 1000 pieces and also lower the price.

If anything goes wrong with it blame comrade Bandido. :-x. :-!


----------



## Bandido

tokareva said:


> If anything goes wrong with it blame comrade Bandido. :-x. :-!


The world is full of injustice!!!!
[crying in the corner again]



tokareva said:


> Comrades, comrade Bandido and myself think it might be a good idea to advertise this project on the same place as the Luna dude project. If they can sell 600 of that watch this one should easily sell over 1000 pieces and also lower the price.


By the way, the price of Luna Dude is more acceptable, than presumed one for this project, this might be a bate.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

This one is more special, though O


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Miguel Fazendas said:


> This one is more special, though O


Way more...:-d


----------



## Marijn2

Will any update be synchronised on WUS also when you decide to advertise the project somewhere else? I think the Luna Dude was advertised on facebook right? But I for instance am one of the people that does not have an account for this service. (and I do not want one


----------



## Sullivanjt

I want to thank everyone for their work in helping to promote this project with groups outside this immediate forum; with the increased audience, I'm sure we can find at least 300 people who are interested. However, I would like to introduce some ground rules to distributing information on the project, and I would appreciate it if people would read and discuss first:

1. These projects are a regular occurrence on this forum, along with watch.ru and relojes especiales. On other platforms, people might not understand that we're in the early stages of this project. Therefore, I ask that, at minimum, we wait until this project is officially approved by the moderators. I don't think I need to wait officially until June 1st; due to the engagement this has received, and the clear-cut nature of the project, I may submit it much sooner than that.

2. I will ask that, if we push this project out into other watch groups that may be interested, we present a single, clear, coherent message about the details of the project. Once we begin this, we can agree on which imagery we will use to support our request/promotion of the watch. The central theme is "as close as possible," but should include any changes that have been made, i.e. crystal, dial inscription, etc. I don't want to lead people into this under false pretenses (not that I think anyone here has any intention of doing that).

3. I want to wait until Dmitry can, in fact, make the case and crystal to the specifications we want. It's no good to build up hope for everyone across multiple websites, if we can't actually deliver on the project's initial scope. I am going to send him an email soon, to see how the 3D render is coming along. I will also ask how many units we will need if we want to lower the price.

4. I'd like to have one main representative for any group we reach out to. That person would be responsible for updating that group when new information comes out. That way, we mitigate the risk of multiple people putting out information all at once. I might pop into different groups, but allow that person to be the spokesperson,as it'll get too complicated for me to handle very quickly.

Once again, thank you to everyone for your hard work in promoting the project. Let's see this all the way to the end!


----------



## tokareva

Thank *you* comrade * Sullivanjt* for your professional, efficient and dedicated leadership on this long overdue project.


----------



## Kotsov

#25 please


----------



## DirkT

I am absolutely interested, if the result of this project is to re-create the watch as closely as possible.


----------



## jose-CostaRica

Are we going to talk about the hands?

This is a picture of my reissue, those are new hands... bigger, wider, more refined, the seconds hand is longer also. I found these new hands on my antimagnetic SE amphibia too. In my opinion these are more pretty.

Regular Amphibia hands are not the very same that the original compressor had anyway right?

So which hands set are we going to use?










Enviado desde Costa Rica


----------



## BreaksThings

I'm in! If there is a list, put me on it!


----------



## tokareva

Fergfour said:


> Fair enough, if the original minute numbers were white so be it
> Not sure I agree with your spacing assessment or assumptions about the original intent of the designers, but honestly I don't care THAT much either way what the end result is. To me the spacing differences between the 55-v-5 are evident. Super minor detail but the horizontal orange line between the 45-50-55-v see a tad higher on the original than the render.
> 
> View attachment 15121225
> View attachment 15121233


Somehow I missed this comparison picture post. If all of the original examples are misaligned I urge the design team to consider the possibility of making the reissue with the same misalignments.

It would be impossible to make a mistake if every detail of the original (including any peculiarities) is copied exactly.


----------



## Victorv

I'm in

But i think the factory was testing the posibility of make a remake himself, i think I read something like that on the spanish forum. Anyone knows ?


----------



## Bandido

About the factory.
They made their own poll in Dec 2019
https://vk.com/vk_vostok?w=wall-80819626_8794
They have a lot of positive answers, but this discussion went to silence mode since Jan-Feb 2020. 
I'm curious now who will be faster?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Somehow I missed this comparison picture post. If all of the original examples are misaligned I urge the design team to consider the possibility of making the reissue with the same misalignments.
> 
> It would be impossible to make a mistake if every detail of the original (including any peculiarities) is copied exactly.


Please see my answer to that post.

















The originals weren't made with a computer and were built like a prototype production. Things are not precise and details vary from watch to watch: positions change slightly from watch to watch, there are thickness variations, there are lots of inconsistencies.

If 1000 compressors were made, there will be 1000 bezels that are not exactly the same. But we have to design just one.


----------



## MattBrace

26 original dials.

Cheers...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

About the misalignment, folks, please refer to post #178.

The original designers went to great lengths of trouble to design every single digit individually. They were designed around a matrix made of concentric lines to the center of the dial and a straight line from the center of the dial to the center of the number, from which parallel lines were drawn.

If these lines were radial, the numbers would have no inherent alignment, but they are not, they are parallel. Because of this, these number only work design-wise when aligned with a minute or hour mark by their center, and not by any other point. At any other point, they show at a slight angle (as they do in all the examples shown).

They didn't go to all this trouble to, in the end, misalign it on purpose. They were absolutely designed to rest aligned with the hour markers and lume dots by their center, with 100% of certainty.

With that, it's obvious the design called for the triangle to be aligned with the final lume dot. This insistence that they went to all this trouble to then prescribe that all the numbers should be slightly crooked is absurd.

I don't have any doubts the original design prescribed everything to line up: it's a manufacturing error.



This is the last time I'll address this issue. I understand everyone is very passionate about it.

So am I: that's why I donated an absurd amount hours of my time to this project, investigating, comparing, studying, designing and redesign every single detail of this to make it as perfectly as possible, because that's what I would want for myself.

This design couldn't be made from a 2 minutes appreciation from the couch and it's not a knee jerk design.

Please understand that all this time that I've been investing in the project was a pleasure but I won't be able to keep debating and keep tweaking. I have a very intense work life.

The best possible was done, with the information available to us, with the skills available to me and my best judgement. I still stand by it: considering all I've learned about it, I stand by it. And if I spot something that can be made better, I'll improve it.



This is a product of today, it will unavoidably be made with today's quality, consistency and smaller tolerances. 

Trying to pursue original inconsistencies would be crazy: they are not design intents, they are just technical shortcomings. Reproducing manufacturing errors unwanted by the original designers would be an offense to them and to the art.



Such a project is always filled with compromises, and I have to accept that not everyone will be happy ever. But please try to accommodate the ones who generously try to do the work.


----------



## 24h

Yeah, I don’t understand. Why try to replicate a mistake that did not equally affect every example that we’ve seen? Clearly the intention of the original design was for everything to line up. How could you time things properly if the marks were not evenly spaced?

Rumor has it that one of the watchmakers wasn’t feeling well a few decades ago and forgot to lubricate a movement. Does that mean you should request that Vostok should choose a random sample to bypass the oiling stage of movement assembly? :-d

Joking aside, great work. I know how long it takes to do all of that, especially with the custom numerals around the bezel.


----------



## Fergfour

I'm appreciative of everyone's efforts and I'm fine with the numbers aligned however they end up. 
Still, I find it interesting that I haven't yet seen a single original where the minute numbers are centered with the hour markers. If that was their intent you'd think they would've got it right at least once. I'll keep looking to satisfy my curiosity.


----------



## Fergfour

duplicate post


----------



## tokareva

Comrade* Miguel* it's obvious you're doing a great job, I'm extremely confident in your, work but I'm also paranoid when it comes to projects so I have to ask a lot of questions. I really appreciate how you have explained various things.


----------



## tokareva

MattBrace said:


> 26 original dials.
> 
> Cheers...


That's fantastic, comrade, could you please take a closer picture, maybe with more light. I'm concerned about the color of the lume dots and the the other colors especially the orange. Because those dials are new there should be no fading, but the orange is not a vibrant color but looks subdued. Also the lume dots appear slightly ivory colored. Could the lume dots have changed with age? I just want to make sure that we're not using paint that is more vibrant than the original colors.


----------



## Bandido

I think those dials also fade.

Is this picture from Vkontakte discussion?
Ive seen there something similar.


----------



## MattBrace

Yes, it's from that discussion. 

My watch used one of these NOS dials to complete it, as it had an incorrect dial when purchased. 

I guess it depends on the look your going for. I personally think, as close to the vintage NOS dials as possible. 

Cheers...


----------



## Martin_F

Hello everyone, been lurking this forum for a long time, but this project made me finally sign up!
I'm interested in getting on board, but there are a couple pieces of information I must have missed on this long thread:
What movement will be in the watch and what's the thickness?
Thanks and keep up the good work!


----------



## Sullivanjt

Martin_F said:


> Hello everyone, been lurking this forum for a long time, but this project made me finally sign up!
> I'm interested in getting on board, but there are a couple pieces of information I must have missed on this long thread:
> What movement will be in the watch and what's the thickness?
> Thanks and keep up the good work!


The movement will be a 2416B. Dmitry is still working on case dimensions, but I don't expect it to be much thicker than any other Vostok, maybe around 14mm?


----------



## Sullivanjt

Additionally - I understand we are trying to make this as close to original as possible, but unless someone can find hard evidence why alignment is off, the bezel alignment is going to remain as-is. We cannot put additional pressures and work on the individual creating the products based on assumptions or speculation, and the product is more efficient for it.

The dial/bezel color question is more reasonable - if we can find additional suitable pictures of NOS dials and bezels, then we can discuss whether or not the dial should be a different shade.

I think the font on both the dial and bezel are pretty spot-on. Since these are set, I believe we have a 95% of the part of the project complete, barring any significant discoveries.


----------



## Martin_F

Sullivanjt said:


> The movement will be a 2416B. Dmitry is still working on case dimensions, but I don't expect it to be much thicker than any other Vostok, maybe around 14mm?


Thanks for the reply, that makes sense!
I've read some discussions about straps earlier in the thread, and when I think compressor, I remember this Diver Longines just re-released a few years back. It has a nice mesh bracelet:
View attachment 15125077


I really like the look of that and found a budget friendly version of that strap on poljot24: it's called the 9550 Milanese Strap. (sorry I can't post any links yet)


----------



## Dave51

Sullivanjt said:


> Additionally - I understand we are trying to make this as close to original as possible, but unless someone can find hard evidence why alignment is off, the bezel alignment is going to remain as-is. We cannot put additional pressures and work on the individual creating the products based on assumptions or speculation, and the product is more efficient for it.
> 
> The dial/bezel color question is more reasonable - if we can find additional suitable pictures of NOS dials and bezels, then we can discuss whether or not the dial should be a different shade.
> 
> I think the font on both the dial and bezel are pretty spot-on. Since these are set, I believe we have a 95% of the part of the project complete, barring any significant discoveries.


The color issue will be hard to nail down using photos. Different sensors (or films) render colors differently. Different lighting conditions impact the way a color appears in a photograph. Photographers go to great lengths to have systems calibrated from camera to screen to printer to try to get accurate color rendering. Most of us don't have that. Even if we did, the photo on the screen won't be the product of that calibrated system. It will be really hard to "know" the colors accurately from looking at photos. The Pantone colors look great. They are a standard reference and make it possible to reproduce the colors again and again.

Since the watch being discussed cannot be a total reproduction of the original in every way, it will inevitably end up being a watch inspired by the original that is extremely similar and manufactured to Vostok's modern capabilities.

I think that is pretty cool.


----------



## LeDocteur

about the bezel:
is it a click bezel?
if so, I hope it's not a 90 clicks like the "modern Compressor" and its misalignment...


----------



## Martin_F

LeDocteur said:


> about the bezel:
> is it a click bezel?
> if so, I hope it's not a 90 clicks like the "modern Compressor" and its misalignment...


I doubt it clicks, as it's operated with the top crown, so you can't directly turn it from the outside.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> I'm appreciative of everyone's efforts and I'm fine with the numbers aligned however they end up.
> Still, I find it interesting that I haven't yet seen a single original where the minute numbers are centered with the hour markers. If that was their intent you'd think they would've got it right at least once. I'll keep looking to satisfy my curiosity.


I understand where you're coming from, of course.

But the explicit design of the numerals (and the effort it took from the original designers to individually design each one of them to that effect) shows unambiguously that the design intent was to have them all aligned by their centers. Even if all of the lume triangles are misaligned on all the original bezels it was still a manufacturing mistake.

Of course one could discuss that there's merit in reproducing even the smallest manufacturing mistakes to make a true replica (but then we'd have to reproduce everything, every imprecision, every inconsistency, source NOS movements... where would it end?), and defend that avenue against the merit of trying to respect the intent of the original design instead, even if that intent is not fully realised on the original watch.

This isn't a replica, though, of course: it's an homage that tries to be as close to the original as possible. It will be a new watch, with a new movement, built to contemporary standards, finishes and tolerances. And it should honor the best of the soviet industry and their heroes.

That's not achieved by picking and eternalising their ocasional shortcomings and mistakes. This watch should be all they dreamed it could be. We have the obligation to make it as perfect as possible. That's how I feel.


----------



## Sullivanjt

LeDocteur said:


> about the bezel:
> is it a click bezel?
> if so, I hope it's not a 90 clicks like the "modern Compressor" and its misalignment...


This is an interesting question, I didn't realize the previous edition had that issue. I will be sure to bring it up with Dmitry.


----------



## Fergfour

Martin_F said:


> I doubt it clicks, as it's operated with the top crown, so you can't directly turn it from the outside.


The previous compressor model from a couple years ago did not have smooth action, it clicked slightly. It's worth noting that the Amfibia Scuba has a smooth turning inner bezel.


----------



## Fergfour

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I understand where you're coming from, of course.
> But the explicit design of the numerals (and the effort it took from the original designers to individually design each one of them to that effect) shows unambiguously that the design intent was to have them all aligned by their centers. Even if all of the lume triangles are misaligned on all the original bezels it was still a manufacturing mistake.
> 
> Of course one could discuss that there's merit in reproducing even the smallest manufacturing mistakes to make a true replica (but then we'd have to reproduce everything, every imprecision, every inconsistency, source NOS movements... where would it end?), and defend that avenue against the merit of trying to respect the intent of the original design instead, even if that intent is not fully realised on the original watch.
> 
> This isn't a replica, though, of course: it's an homage that tries to be as close to the original as possible. It will be a new watch, with a new movement, built to contemporary standards, finishes and tolerances. And it should honor the best of the soviet industry and their heroes.
> 
> That's not achieved by picking and eternalising their ocasional shortcomings and mistakes. This watch should be all they dreamed it could be. We have the obligation to make it as perfect as possible. That's how I feel.


Sorry Miguel, we'll have to agree to disagree on what the original designer's intent was. It's all speculation at this point. As far as this project goes it doesn't matter anyway. You are approaching this project the way you feel is appropriate and there's not a single thing wrong with that. Keep up the good work comrade.


----------



## haejuk

I like this idea and would likely pay what it costs to get it done with a high domed sapphire, if acrylic (my preference) is indeed impossible. I'm not really a fan of how light reflects off of mineral glass. The Oris Diver 65 is another example of a sapphire crystal that mimics the Amphibia crystal's looks very well, so I am sure something similar can be found.
The inner bezel on the last reissue was quite a let down. If it didn't align at first you could turn it all the way around a few times to get it to align properly. 90 clicks was a weird choice and I would rather have a smooth moving inner bezel.


----------



## MattBrace

The original has a smooth action (no click), and is very similar in construction to the chapter ring on a Poljot 3133. I did post a picture early in the thread showing it.

Cheers...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> Sorry Miguel, we'll have to agree to disagree on what the original designer's intent was. It's all speculation at this point. As far as this project goes it doesn't matter anyway. You are approaching this project the way you feel is appropriate and there's not a single thing wrong with that. Keep up the good work comrade.


It's natural we disagree, and the world would be a boring place if we all were the same.

In this case it's not an opinion, it's data: I took the trouble to make specific drawing to explain how the numbers were originally constructed, they are in post #178, and what they say to us is incredibly clear and unambiguous. And I took that data to to design. There's really nothing else I can add to it.

Thank you for your worlds, though. I'm far from perfect but I try to do the best I can.


----------



## Fergfour

Miguel Fazendas said:


> It's natural we disagree, and the world would be a boring place if we all were the same.
> In this case it's not an opinion, it's data: I took the trouble to make specific drawing to explain how the numbers were originally constructed, they are in post #178, and what they say to us is incredibly clear and unambiguous. And I took that data to to design. There's really nothing else I can add to it. Thank you for your worlds, though. I'm far from perfect but I try to do the best I can.


Again Miguel, to me its an opinion on what the intent of the original designers was. I believe they had the option/capability of centering all the individual elements (such as the hour marker bars and lume dots) but chose a different, more artistic layout for the bezel.

I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone, to change the approach of centering the bezel numbers. I see the logic in that and I don't dislike it. Regards.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> Again Miguel, to me its an opinion on what the intent of the original designers was. I believe they had the option/capability of centering all the individual elements (such as the hour marker bars and lume dots) but chose a different, more artistic layout for the bezel.
> 
> I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone, to change the approach of centering the bezel numbers. I see the logic in that and I don't dislike it. Regards.


If it were intensional, it would be explicit: they would design it for that position. They wouldn't align all 3 sets of numbers (wide 2 digits, narrow 2 digits and single digits) differently or randomly, specially with numbers designed to work differently.

They would take the same enormous effort they made before to make it work and look proper with that alignment (like the last example in post #178) and for the user to have a solid reference for the bezel function (exactly aligning all of them to the right, for instance).

People who invest that much in the design they make don't throw it away to make it "artistic". There's nothing artistic about this misalignment from a design standpoint, it's just skewed.

I, furthermore, never heard of a tool watch that would forsake it's functionality (the misalignment doesn't allow for correct time measuring) for a (presumable) artistic value. Not even in the most artistic Swiss brands.

This isn't an artistic watch (and I've never seen this "artistic" gesture in the Soviet industry, even in dress watches were design can forget a bit about function).

With soviet watches (and watches in general: dial designers are strict folks) traditionally everything is rigorously in its place. And the lumed parts were always where the precision failed in Soviet watches, as we know from so many examples.

I understand this reasoning isn't agreed upon universally Fergfour  but to me it seems pretty solid.


----------



## Fergfour

duplicate


----------



## Fergfour

Miguel Fazendas said:


> If it were intensional, it would be explicit: they would design it for that position. They wouldn't align all 3 sets of numbers (wide 2 digits, narrow 2 digits and single digits) differently or randomly, specially with numbers designed to work differently.
> 
> They would take the same enormous effort they made before to make it work and look proper with that alignment (like the last example in post #178) and for the user to have a solid reference for the bezel function (exactly aligning all of them to the right, for instance).
> People who invest that much in the design they make don't throw it away to make it "artistic". There's nothing artistic about this misalignment from a design standpoint, it's just skewed.
> I, furthermore, never heard of a tool watch that would forsake it's functionality (the misalignment doesn't allow for correct time measuring) for a (presumable) artistic value. Not even in the most artistic Swiss brands.
> This isn't an artistic watch (and I've never seen this "artistic" gesture in the Soviet industry, even in dress watches were design can forget a bit about function).
> With soviet watches (and watches in general: dial designers are strict folks) traditionally everything is rigorously in its place. And the lumed parts were always where the precision failed in Soviet watches, as we know from so many examples.
> I understand this reasoning isn't agreed upon universally Fergfour  but to me it seems pretty solid.


Fine, maybe "artistic" was not the best choice of words. Again, centering the bezel numbers is completely reasonable. 
Miguel I suggest if you'd like to continue this discussion for some reason we can do it offline via pm or whatever. I'd rather this thread be used for the progress of the project, etc.


----------



## hoja_roja

MattBrace said:


> 26 original dials.
> 
> Cheers...


Like.... How?? im specheless! 😮


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Fergfour said:


> Fine, maybe "artistic" was not the best choice of words. Again, centering the bezel numbers is completely reasonable.
> Miguel I suggest if you'd like to continue this discussion for some reason we can do it offline via pm or whatever. I'd rather this thread be used for the progress of the project, etc.


Thank you for you consideration, Fergfour.

It's fine: everything is on the table already and I reckon there's nothing else to be productively added.


----------



## tokareva

Just some observations, I don't know if the colors for the lume dots and second hands are finalized yet but wanted to give my opinion. Looking at some originals this is what seems to be the case to me.

1.The only thing on the watch that looks bright white appears to be the bezel numbers.

View attachment 15128109


Here is an enhanced view using auto correct. Notice the lume triangle on the bezel looks exactly like the lume dots, kind of very light yellow or ivory.

View attachment 15128121


2.The second hand is always a more vibrant deeper color of orange red than the orange of the dial.

View attachment 15128151
View attachment 15128155


Here is an auto corrected view.









3. It seems like the main difference between the first reissue and the original is really the colors, the reissue looks mosty all white unless it's in lower lighting. Also the orange used is more vibrant than the more pastel looking original orange.

View attachment 15128161


4. I think generally this copy is pretty good but has too much color and slightly too mint colored and the lume dots need to be different.
View attachment 15128167


My conclusion is that it takes a lot of different colors to make this watch look interesting like the original and I caution about using colors that are too deep or vibrant.


----------



## StrangeQuark

Can we get some input from owners of the original as to what portions of the dial and bezel were actually luminous? I expect that the yellow triangle on the bezel and the yellow dots on the dial as well as the green hour marker lines were all luminous originally. It doesn't look like the white numbers on the bezel or the orange (or green) 12 were luminous, although I'd love it if the orange 12 were to be luminous on the homage. Anyway, in the interest of making the homage as close as possible to the original, I'd sure like to know.

And I agree with tokareva that it's precisely the combination of the white, orange, yellow and green colors on the dial and bezel (and the red sputnik second hand) that is one of the key visual cues that make this watch so interesting to me. It's really one of the main things that I didn't like about the first re-issue version.


----------



## haejuk

The only luminous material looks to be the dots around the edge of the dial, the triangle on the bezel, and the hands.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Just some observations, I don't know if the colors for the lume dots and second hands are finalized yet but wanted to give my opinion. Looking at some originals this is what seems to be the case to me.
> 
> 1.The only thing on the watch that looks bright white appears to be the bezel numbers.
> 
> View attachment 15128109
> 
> 
> Here is an enhanced view using auto correct. Notice the lume triangle on the bezel looks exactly like the lume dots, kind of very light yellow or ivory.
> 
> View attachment 15128121
> 
> 
> 2.The second hand is always a more vibrant deeper color of orange red than the orange of the dial.
> 
> View attachment 15128151
> View attachment 15128155
> 
> 
> Here is an auto corrected view.
> 
> View attachment 15128221
> 
> 
> 3. It seems like the main difference between the first reissue and the original is really the colors, the reissue looks mosty all white unless it's in lower lighting. Also the orange used is more vibrant than the more pastel looking original orange.
> 
> View attachment 15128161
> 
> 
> 4. I think generally this copy is pretty good but has too much color and slightly too mint colored and the lume dots need to be different.
> View attachment 15128167
> 
> 
> My conclusion is that it takes a lot of different colors to make this watch look interesting like the original and I caution about using colors that are too deep or vibrant.


Hello!

Yes, the colors have been the focus of a lot of work.

First, two things need to be explained: the design is being built with Pantone spot colors. When translating them to RGB files to show them here, the color translation is not accurate. (For instance, the orange on the mockup I see on my display here is darker and more saturated than the physical Pantone sample on my hands, but the real physical one is the one that counts.)

An image with the Pantone colors was published before: those who have access to a physical Pantone color guide can give it a look.

Secondly, at the same time, the images produced directly from graphic software will always have brighter colors and better contrast than photos (always limited by reflections, burned parts, ambient conditions, light temperature, sensor settings, etc., resulting always in poorer color reproduction.)

We also have to take into account that we're looking at 40-year-old pigments. The color of the lume, for instance, is so creamy because of its age: a well-known phenomenon. (Look how much brighter it looks on Bandido's catalog image in post #140.)

We've been comparing several sources to get the correct feel. MattBrace's photo without the crystal and bezel (that you also referenced) is probably the better one (though we're constantly checking others against it). We corrected it a bit using the white of the paper and the black of the dial.









(This isn't a preview of how our Compressor will look in a photo, but a simulation of how the original dial would look in a graphic design software like the one where we're doing the mockups: that's how it can be best useful for the development.)

It's still not the same as holding a physical Pantone color guide against a dial on my hand, but it was great to take us closer. But, coming back to the first point, the physical Pantone sample I have for the orange is very close to the one on the photo, while it's RGB equivalent on the mockup appears darker and more saturated.

There's no doubt that we'll be tweaking it constantly to be as near as possible to the original as when it left the factory. Please understand that the mockup will never fully realize the actual colors, but trust that we're doing the best that can be done with the tools available to us.


----------



## tokareva

Ok, thank you comrade Miguel, it sounds like you have the colors well under control so now I can relax. I was going to include comrade Bandido's catalog picture but the post was already so long I didn't. It's a very good point and the lume would also look good white if it's the original color.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Hello, everyone:

I've been trying to make a mockup with RGB colors that are a closer match to my physical Pantone colors.
(These colors are close in my display, which is calibrated, but may look slightly different from display to display depending on the settings or calibrations you have on yours.)










I'm convinced for a while now that our colors will inevitably be somewhat subdued compared with the original as new. In part because the 40-year-old colors are what we know, and in part because rejuvenating them further requires courage and involves a certain amount of guesswork.

But it seems like vibrancy was what the original designers were looking for, choosing that bright orange (and an almost fluorescent yellow-green on that rarer version) against black, and it makes sense in a dive watch to increase legibility.

I think we'll be close to the original.


----------



## tokareva

Dumb question, will prototypes of the watches be made before they go into production. That way if something doesn't turn out as expected can be adjusted accordingly, color, shape, fit, etc.


----------



## Dave51

Miguel Fazendas said:


> But it seems like vibrancy was what the original designers were looking for, choosing that bright orange (and an almost fluorescent yellow-green on that rarer version) against black, and it makes sense in a dive watch to increase legibility.


The legibility and color choice idea for vibrant colors makes sense, especially with respect to the vibrant green color. I have not been diving for many years, but I did a lot of it when I was younger. As you descend, red is the first color to disappear. Orange takes longer, but green will be one of the last two colors to go. I remember that the red stripes on my dad's wetsuit would go gray quickly. The lime green trim on other suits was very visible much deeper into the water. I would imagine the watch designers knew this when they included so much of that shade of green in the design.

I am all for a watch with vibrant colors. It can fade on its own as we spend more time together! I don't really understand the fascination with buying a brand new watch that looks likes it is old. An older design, I get. I mean why have a brand new watch fade to old before its time? Let's all be courageous.


----------



## Kirill Sergueev

Can they be made in 38 mm?


----------



## Kotsov

Dave51 said:


> The legibility and color choice idea for vibrant colors makes sense, especially with respect to the vibrant green color. I have not been diving for many years, but I did a lot of it when I was younger. As you descend, red is the first color to disappear. Orange takes longer, but green will be one of the last two colors to go. I remember that the red stripes on my dad's wetsuit would go gray quickly. The lime green trim on other suits was very visible much deeper into the water. I would imagine the watch designers knew this when they included so much of that shade of green in the design.
> 
> I am all for a watch with vibrant colors. It can fade on its own as we spend more time together! I don't really understand the fascination with buying a brand new watch that looks likes it is old. An older design, I get. I mean why have a brand new watch fade to old before its time? Let's all be courageous.


Couldn't agree more. I'd trust Miguel's guesswork on the original colours rather than recreating the time dulled version.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Dave51 said:


> The legibility and color choice idea for vibrant colors makes sense, especially with respect to the vibrant green color. I have not been diving for many years, but I did a lot of it when I was younger. As you descend, red is the first color to disappear. Orange takes longer, but green will be one of the last two colors to go. I remember that the red stripes on my dad's wetsuit would go gray quickly. The lime green trim on other suits was very visible much deeper into the water. I would imagine the watch designers knew this when they included so much of that shade of green in the design.
> 
> I am all for a watch with vibrant colors. It can fade on its own as we spend more time together! I don't really understand the fascination with buying a brand new watch that looks likes it is old. An older design, I get. I mean why have a brand new watch fade to old before its time? Let's all be courageous.


This is precious info, Dave!!


----------



## MattBrace

As Requested,

The bezel line is a darker orange/red than the dial colours.

Hopefully the pictures will assist. 

Cheers...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Thank you MattBrace! 

That’s exactly what I needed (the references I had tended to obscure it under the reflections of the crystal curve).

I’ll try to figure the color out and update the design.

Cheers!!


----------



## Bandido

Sullivanjt said:


> This is great! Where did you find this information?


Hi. This site. http://ussr-watch.com/watch-catalogues/


----------



## Bandido

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Thank you MattBrace!
> 
> That's exactly what I needed (the references I had tended to obscure it under the reflections of the crystal curve).
> 
> I'll try to figure the color out and update the design.
> 
> Cheers!!


I'm afraid this difference is also because of imperfection of the past watchmaking and the fact, that this bezel and this dial were separate from each other until *MattBrace* managed to combine them inside one case.
The best is the enemy of the good as I've heard.

Thinking twice and made some google search I may be wrong about that fact that color difference is because of parts from different watches.
For instance this article has a big enough photo to notice the same effect.
But it does not reject the imperfection of watch making those days.


----------



## MattBrace

Bandido said:


> Miguel Fazendas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you MattBrace! ?
> 
> That's exactly what I needed (the references I had tended to obscure it under the reflections of the crystal curve).
> 
> I'll try to figure the color out and update the design.
> 
> Cheers!!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm afraid this difference is also because of imperfection of the past watchmaking and the fact, that this bezel and this dial were separate from each other until *MattBrace* managed to combine them inside one case.
> The best is the enemy of the good as I've heard.
> 
> Thinking twice and made some google search I may be wrong about that fact that color difference is because of parts from different watches.
> For instance this article was a big enough photo to notice the same effect.
> But it does not reject the imperfection of watch making those days.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if that's an insult or compliment, I can only observe what's in front of me to try and further the project.

Cheers... (I think?)


----------



## Bandido

MattBrace said:


> I'm not sure if that's an insult or compliment, I can only observe what's in front of me to try and further the project.
> 
> Cheers... (I think?)


Dear MattBrace I'm sorry if you've noticed even a shadow of insult in my words. I have no intention to give any kind of insulting at all.
I'm just worrying about the result of the project because it is very often when the one can not stop in time (we know a lot of examples in car styling and tuning, plastic surgery etc.) and continuously changes the good result trying to make closer to perfection and makes it farther from it than than the previous version was. Just a clumsy plea. That's all. No offence given.


----------



## Sullivanjt

After talking with Miguel, I think the best way to go about it is to match the lines to either the seconds hand or the orange on the dial. This limits the number of different colors on it, which presents a clearer, more coherent watch. Too many different bright colors may make it appear "busy"

Thanks to MattBrace for his pictures, they definitely helped clear up some of our questions about the bezel.


----------



## MattBrace

Bandido said:


> MattBrace said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if that's an insult or compliment, I can only observe what's in front of me to try and further the project.
> 
> Cheers... (I think?)
> 
> 
> 
> Dear MattBrace I'm sorry if you've noticed even a shadow of insult in my words. I have no intention to give any kind of insulting at all.
> I'm just worrying about the result of the project because it is very often when the one can not stop in time (we know a lot of examples in car styling and tuning, plastic surgery etc.) and continuously changes the good result trying to make closer to perfection and makes it farther from it than than the previous version was. Just a clumsy plea. That's all. No offence given.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bandido,

This is certainly a complex project and with so many variables in the known examples, I hope my watch is pretty representative of the original.

Thanks to all the organisers for there great work so far.

Cheers...


----------



## StrangeQuark

So far, both Matt Brace's photo and the one in the article from Bandido seem to support the fact that the bezel lines are more red than orange and unless there's firm evidence to the contrary, I'm in favor of matching those lines with the second hand.


----------



## Dave51

I agree with the decision to limit the different shades of orange. This idea that there were two different shades of orange on these watches and that we should emulate that presents an interesting question. I was glad to see Sullivanjt's post. I had been thinking about the question a lot between forum visits. Perhaps these thoughts will help ease the minds of forum members who are concerned with this decision.

The first question to ask should probably be: "What design purpose, or what function, is served by having two different shades of orange on the same watch?" 
If it is for aesthetics, is that purpose served by multi-shades of orange in such close proximity on such a small device? It seems as if Vostok used the same color green on both dials. From the photos, it appears that on the dial without orange, the shade of green used on the bezel was the same as the green used on the dial. Why would they have used different shades of orange? I cannot think of one. Miguel's proposed design, which takes all of its cues from the original, looks better than the photo samples showing two colors. I think that tells us something, unless there is a functional reason to have different shades of orange. (And if there is, why wasn't the same reason present for the green?)

From a functional perspective we have to posit a reason to include a different color orange on the bezel than used on the dial. The bezel was the critical feature of a dive watch (besides the feature of telling time). Tracking elapsed time underwater, or tracking remaining time left on a planned dive, or timing a decompression or safety stop are all critical functions of a dive bezel. Not knowing about Soviet SCUBA diving practice leaves me at somewhat of a disadvantage. However, one thing is clear. From what I have read about this watch, you had to set the bezel in advance before you went underwater. Operating the bezel crown underwater would flood the watch. So, it is likely that the diver planned a dive and set the bezel to count up the time to the end of the dive or count down, whichever was their preference or training. Since divers typically work in pairs, maybe the other diver set the bezel on their watch to time a decompression stop (if one was required). I hypothesize that the orange "dashes" from 45 to the triangle mark are akin to the minute markers found on the first 15-20 minutes on a typical external bezel you would find on a Seiko, Rolex, or other dive watch. I think, most likely, that the dashes are there to remind you that if you are using the bezel to keep track of remaining time ("count down"), you are getting closer to the end of your dive. Given that purpose, is there any significant reason to use a different color orange on the bezel than on the dial? Again, I cannot think of one. That does not mean that there isn't one. There are other divers with more experience than me who might be able to come up with something.

So, what would account for the difference in color? Attacking it from another angle seems like a good exercise. I start from the idea that manufacturers prefer to minimize cost. It would cost more to stock and set up to use two different shades of orange paint. This is especially true given the minute amounts of orange used on the bezel. With no functional reason to have a different color, why expend the additional costs? Costs involve not only purchasing the paint, but also storing it and switching and setting up for a paint run for the different parts. To what purpose? [This is something for us to think about if we want to minimize production costs so the final product is not more expensive than it needs to be.]

Another potential explanation could be that the dial and bezel were subcontracted to different companies and they did not use a color matching system (like Pantone) to ensure that the paint was the same color. We have seen many examples of Soviet era production techniques that were . . . lacking. Maybe the different colors are an example of them not caring if the colors matched. Do we want to emulate poor quality control?

Yet another explanation could be that a different type of paint was used on the bezel than the dial. The two paints might have faded at a different rate.

A possibility was suggested by a different forum member, that parts from different watches combined in one of the examples, would account for the difference. Perhaps one has faded more and the other less.

In the end, I have to bet that, like the green, the orange on the bezel and the dial either was intended, or should have been intended, to match. Unless there is a substantive reason that good design, either aesthetic or functional, demands that the watch have two shades of orange, I can't see a reason to do it.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Dave51 said:


> I agree with the decision to limit the different shades of orange. This idea that there were two different shades of orange on these watches and that we should emulate that presents an interesting question. I was glad to see Sullivanjt's post. I had been thinking about the question a lot between forum visits. Perhaps these thoughts will help ease the minds of forum members who are concerned with this decision.
> 
> The first question to ask should probably be: "What design purpose, or what function, is served by having two different shades of orange on the same watch?"
> If it is for aesthetics, is that purpose served by multi-shades of orange in such close proximity on such a small device? It seems as if Vostok used the same color green on both dials. From the photos, it appears that on the dial without orange, the shade of green used on the bezel was the same as the green used on the dial. Why would they have used different shades of orange? I cannot think of one. Miguel's proposed design, which takes all of its cues from the original, looks better than the photo samples showing two colors. I think that tells us something, unless there is a functional reason to have different shades of orange. (And if there is, why wasn't the same reason present for the green?)
> 
> From a functional perspective we have to posit a reason to include a different color orange on the bezel than used on the dial. The bezel was the critical feature of a dive watch (besides the feature of telling time). Tracking elapsed time underwater, or tracking remaining time left on a planned dive, or timing a decompression or safety stop are all critical functions of a dive bezel. Not knowing about Soviet SCUBA diving practice leaves me at somewhat of a disadvantage. However, one thing is clear. From what I have read about this watch, you had to set the bezel in advance before you went underwater. Operating the bezel crown underwater would flood the watch. So, it is likely that the diver planned a dive and set the bezel to count up the time to the end of the dive or count down, whichever was their preference or training. Since divers typically work in pairs, maybe the other diver set the bezel on their watch to time a decompression stop (if one was required). I hypothesize that the orange "dashes" from 45 to the triangle mark are akin to the minute markers found on the first 15-20 minutes on a typical external bezel you would find on a Seiko, Rolex, or other dive watch. I think, most likely, that the dashes are there to remind you that if you are using the bezel to keep track of remaining time ("count down"), you are getting closer to the end of your dive. Given that purpose, is there any significant reason to use a different color orange on the bezel than on the dial? Again, I cannot think of one. That does not mean that there isn't one. There are other divers with more experience than me who might be able to come up with something.
> 
> So, what would account for the difference in color? Attacking it from another angle seems like a good exercise. I start from the idea that manufacturers prefer to minimize cost. It would cost more to stock and set up to use two different shades of orange paint. This is especially true given the minute amounts of orange used on the bezel. With no functional reason to have a different color, why expend the additional costs? Costs involve not only purchasing the paint, but also storing it and switching and setting up for a paint run for the different parts. To what purpose? [This is something for us to think about if we want to minimize production costs so the final product is not more expensive than it needs to be.]
> 
> Another potential explanation could be that the dial and bezel were subcontracted to different companies and they did not use a color matching system (like Pantone) to ensure that the paint was the same color. We have seen many examples of Soviet era production techniques that were . . . lacking. Maybe the different colors are an example of them not caring if the colors matched. Do we want to emulate poor quality control?
> 
> Yet another explanation could be that a different type of paint was used on the bezel than the dial. The two paints might have faded at a different rate.
> 
> A possibility was suggested by a different forum member, that parts from different watches combined in one of the examples, would account for the difference. Perhaps one has faded more and the other less.
> 
> In the end, I have to bet that, like the green, the orange on the bezel and the dial either was intended, or should have been intended, to match. Unless there is a substantive reason that good design, either aesthetic or functional, demands that the watch have two shades of orange, I can't see a reason to do it.


Hello Dave!

You sum up well the difficulties about this last detail.

The references seem to show always that the shade of the bezel arch is different from the dial shade (discounting for any aberrations caused by the crystal curved edge).

Did they begin similar and age differently because of a different substrate, different printing technique, or different ink formula?

And, if they started differently: was it intentional? After all, on the green version they were made to match.

It's a tough cookie this one: it was not by chance it was left to the end!

Design-wise having the same shade of orange on both the dial and bezel would be the most elegant solution (and I can't figure a particular reason for it to be otherwise).

But I didn't find an instance where the shade was close enough to convince me that that was the intention either: it seems they may have left the factory as two defined different colours.

I'm still juggling these thoughts, but here's a mockup:










Cheers!


----------



## Dave51

It is a really interesting problem. Miguel, you have a great design sense. 

The catalog scan is rough. It could probably be interpreted either way depending on where a person wants to come out on this. That is where I looked, given that the other photos are of old watches. It is a tough call.

To me, one color is the best solution. It would be interesting to hear from Dmitry if it multiple oranges will have a significant impact on manufacturing cost. From that perspective, it might make the most sense to match the orange to a color that Vostok is already using! 

Your solution looks good. If you decide to go that way it would not destroy my interest in the watch.  

You are working your tail off on this project. Thanks for that.


----------



## StrangeQuark

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Hello Dave!
> 
> You sum up well the difficulties about this last detail.
> 
> The references seem to show always that the shade of the bezel arch is different from the dial shade (discounting for any aberrations caused by the crystal curved edge).
> 
> Did they begin similar and age differently because of a different substrate, different printing technique, or different ink formula?
> 
> And, if they started differently: was it intentional? After all, on the green version they were made to match.
> 
> It's a tough cookie this one: it was not by chance it was left to the end!
> 
> Design-wise having the same shade of orange on both the dial and bezel would be the most elegant solution (and I can't figure a particular reason for it to be otherwise).
> 
> But I didn't find an instance where the shade was close enough to convince me that that was the intention either: it seems they may have left the factory as two defined different colours.
> 
> I'm still juggling these thoughts, but here's a mockup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!


Thank you Miguel for all your hard work on this project. I really like the red dashes on the bezel echoing the red second hand (which is a feature I have always loved about classic Amphibia watches). I think this looks wonderful. I think it make the orange 12 even more special on that dial.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Dave51 said:


> It is a really interesting problem. Miguel, you have a great design sense.
> 
> The catalog scan is rough. It could probably be interpreted either way depending on where a person wants to come out on this. That is where I looked, given that the other photos are of old watches. It is a tough call.
> 
> To me, one color is the best solution. It would be interesting to hear from Dmitry if it multiple oranges will have a significant impact on manufacturing cost. From that perspective, it might make the most sense to match the orange to a color that Vostok is already using!
> 
> Your solution looks good. If you decide to go that way it would not destroy my interest in the watch.
> 
> You are working your tail off on this project. Thanks for that.


Thank you Dave! 
It's a very demanding design, but also an incredibly interesting one!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

danbranan said:


> Thank you Miguel for all your hard work on this project. I really like the red dashes on the bezel echoing the red second hand (which is a feature I have always loved about classic Amphibia watches). I think this looks wonderful. I think it make the orange 12 even more special on that dial.


Thank you, Dan!


----------



## Arizone

This other prototype seems to support the bezel being a red color.


----------



## tokareva

I think you're making a good choice if you're not using the same color on the dial for the bezel. To me it looks much more interesting and maybe refined is the word, with a color like the second hand.


----------



## Chascomm

For whatever it is worth, my thought on the orange/red colours is this:
1. it makes sense for the second hand to be the standard Vostok red item
2. it is useful for the orange dial colour to be different from the second hand so that the second hand can be read easily
3. for simplicity of design, the line colour on the bezel was surely either intended either to match the dial, or to match the second hand, but definitely not to introduce a third colour.

My observation on the earlier question about the shades of white is just this:
whether looking at new photos of old watches or old photos of new watches, we must remember that the lume white will appear darker or lighter than the bezel number white depending on the ambient light. That is the nature of luminous paint.

On the question of as-new or pre-aged colour schemes:
We went with pre-aged on the 2016 project and the result was pretty good in my opinion; but we've been there and done that. As-new colours are more appropriate for a watch that we hope might inspire a general production dual-crown eventually.

(just my opinion)


----------



## tokareva

Some or most of second hands don't look red to me. They look like a darker orange, like the color of the one on the first reissue. Could they have used different colors for the second hands on some watches. Maybe they ran out of orange hands and used some regular red ones?

I think the regular red with the green and orange would not be a complementary color at all.


































To me it looks like the second hand needs to be a little darker orange than what is on the current compressor.

Something happened in this picture of mine and the dial color looks red. You can see how red and orange clash , and with the green too really.









After looking at the current reissue some more I see why it looks so different from the original. The orange on the dial is too dark, it needs to be more pastel or orange cream. Seemsike they got the bezel line and seci hand pretty close though. I understand that it's a modern interpretation of the original though.


----------



## emsmkivgolf

always admired Vostok. I need to add one to the collection.


----------



## Sullivanjt

This discussion has been extremely productive - everyone's input feels well-researched and invested in ensuring we match the originals as closely as possible. However, I want to go back to a point several people have raised about production costs. Dmitry recently let me know he can give me an updated estimate once we provide him with the dial and bezel mockups. I don't know how much of a cost differentiation there is between using different shades of orange, let alone developing a new-colored seconds hand as well. I can ask these questions when we deliver a draft to him. Should we be unable to use certain colors for whatever reason, or if they raise the cost, then we can go back to the drawing board.

Reading through everyone's comments, it seems to me everyone is okay with the darker shade of orange on the bezel. If we are unable to use it, however, the same shade of orange as the dial looks just as fine, perhaps even cleaner. As of right now, since we have the mockups already done, we will wait for information from Dmitry as to whether or not it is possible. This brings us to the next topic:









Courtesy of Miguel. He and I discussed a couple different ideas to differentiate the case from the original. The easiest choice is a standard, limited-edition numbered caseback. The alternative is the date we executed this project. The reason this one was included is to emphasize the limited importance of this being an exclusive run, rather a hopeful start to or inspiration for a regular production. Keep up the great work everyone!


----------



## Bandido

Have you take into discussion the WUS logo? Is it possible and wanted to be used?

Comparing the numeration and a year of issue on caseback my thoughts are: a 2020 year on a caseback looks lighter a gives me (personally) more sense of harmony, but it is much easier to fake than numeration 0-400.


----------



## MattBrace

The left hand example gets my vote.
Simple and classic.

Cheers...


----------



## Dave51

Sullivanjt,

I thanked Miguel earlier. I should have thanked you for all of your efforts too! 

A crazy thought crossed my mind about the colors. Perhaps there is someone at the Vostok factory who actually remembers something about the colors used on the dial, bezel, and second hand. Maybe Dmitry can check in there to see if he can find some oral history data. He is going to have to talk to folks there about putting this thing together. Maybe there will be some useful input. I remember reading on the forum about a watch designer who has worked at Raketa forever. Perhaps there is someone like that at Vostok. Maybe they can also explain why they designed the watch to flood if the bezel is adjusted underwater!


----------



## tokareva

I like the one with the year, the numbered cashbacks always seem a little gimmicky to me, and at least they would all look the same with the date and a nice reference point as it ages. 

There would also be less arguing about who gets what number, but I don't care one way or the other.


----------



## tokareva

Dave51 said:


> Sullivanjt,
> 
> I thanked Miguel earlier. I should have thanked you for all of your efforts too!
> 
> A crazy thought crossed my mind about the colors. Perhaps there is someone at the Vostok factory who actually remembers something about the colors used on the dial, bezel, and second hand.


That's a good idea and I was also wondering what happened to all the people involved in the design and production of the originals. However, it seems like there are more than enough examples to see what the various components look like especially with the new old stock dials.

If we try too hard to make it look some speculative original colors it won't even look like the same watch. It obviously has a light orange dial and a darker reddish orange second hand.

Personally I don't see how the pigment on the NOS dials could have faded any, they're still wrapped up so weren't exposed to light. Just because something is old doesn't make it fade.


----------



## Bandido

I think the air, temperature and humidity also can affect.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Of course, and there’s always also chemical decay too.


----------



## tokareva

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Of course, and there's always also chemical decay too.





Bandido said:


> I think the air, temperature and humidity also can affect.


That's true but if paint can last for hundreds or even thousands of years it seems unlikely that the dials could have been affected so much that it would even be discernable.


----------



## Kotsov

Other examples are available. Certain colours in The Scream” are deteriorating rapidly...


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Don't be eluded: the colors on those examples are very different from when they were first painted.


----------



## tokareva

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Don't eluded: the colors on both the examples are very different from when they were first painted.


Yes comrade, but that painting wasn't kept wrapped up in a drawer for the last 500 years.:-d


----------



## Kotsov

Never mind that. What watch is she hiding?


----------



## Bandido

Kotsov said:


> Never mind that. What watch is she hiding?


Looks like she is shy of her watch. Either it is too expensive or too cheap. The secret of her smile is solved.
She smiles like she is wearing something impressive.

Speaking about the paint used. There are a lot of variations of base, pigments precursors, solvents and protection layers.
A lot of gusessing with no result. This will lead us to nowhere. I'm happy that it has lead us to Mona Lisa, not something else, less attractive)))).


----------



## iomran

Hello, dear colleagues!
Long registered on this site. Never participated in projects. But this project is very interest. It is ready to participate!
P.S. Sorry for my bad English.


----------



## tokareva

Miguel Fazendas said:


> (Please include in your considerations that only the "date only" version allows for a deep stamped engraving like the original, if that option presents itself.)


This sounds much nicer to me, comrade. That would look like it came from the factory instead of an afterthought. Those little thin engravings look a little low cost.


----------



## Bandido

Miguel Fazendas said:


> (Please include in your considerations that only the "date only" version allows for a deep stamped engraving like the original, if that option presents itself.)


Maybe it is better to centre the year stamp and put the number laser engraving right under.
Just not to have a mixture of stamps and laser marking on the same level.


----------



## tokareva

Bandido said:


> Maybe it is better to centre the year stamp and put the number laser engraving right under.
> Just not to have a mixture of stamps and laser marking on the same level.


This sounds like a great idea, comrade.The year will be factory stamped and then everyone can still have their little individual engraved numbers.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Bandido said:


> Maybe it is better to centre the year stamp and put the number laser engraving right under.
> Just not to have a mixture of stamps and laser marking on the same level.


This is possible (and we've seen it done before, of course).
I'm just afraid that the product won't look that well finished: the serial will always look tacked on.

If we go that route, I feel it's better to have the full design laser engraved, so that the finish is uniform on the whole piece.


----------



## Bandido

Miguel Fazendas said:


> This is possible (and we've seen it done before, of course).
> I'm just afraid that the product won't look that well finished: the serial will always look tacked on.
> 
> If we go that route, I feel it's better to have the full design laser engraved, so that the finish is uniform on the whole piece.


This is another bitter spoon in a barrel of honey.
What is better
1. to have fully stamped case back without serial number
2. to have fully engraved case back
3. to have everything stamped except serial.

I'm ok with 1 and 3, but 2 will not stop me.


----------



## StrangeQuark

Can we add a poll to this discussion for the case back options? Now that we have some specific options, I think it would be good to have an indication from all the participants as to what their preference is for the case back.


----------



## Kotsov

danbranan said:


> Can we add a poll to this discussion for the case back options? Now that we have some specific options, I think it would be good to have an indication from all the participants as to what their preference is for the case back.


Seconded.


----------



## Kotsov

Bandido said:


> Maybe it is better to centre the year stamp and put the number laser engraving right under.
> Just not to have a mixture of stamps and laser marking on the same level.


To me a big part is just enjoying the process. I'm pretty much 99% certain to buy the final outcome as it's just good to watch it happen.


----------



## Bandido

Kotsov said:


> To me a big part is just enjoying the process. I'm pretty much 99% certain to buy the final outcome as it's just good to watch it happen.


Pretty much the same story about me, mate.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

(Slightly updated design: sometimes the geometric and the visual centers are different.)

Personally, I've always found the 000/000 a bit tacky (a bit of a show-off): if we think about it, none of our vintage grails has that, and some of them are quite exclusive, built in even smaller numbers. I don't know if it's in good taste or needed. But I can live with it.

But I'd 100% avoid having two different finishes in the same piece: unmatched finishes are a sign of an inferiorly executed work.

(I feel also that a stamped back -versus a lasered one- would be truest to the spirit of this watch, if we manage to have that option.)


----------



## Dave51

Miguel Fazendas said:


> But I'd 100% avoid having two different finishes in the same piece: unmatched finishes are a sign of an inferiorly executed work.
> 
> (I feel also that a stamped back -versus a lasered one- would be truest to the spirit of this watch, if we manage to have that option.)


I would prefer all one finish. The date alone is enough for me.

Like the others, the caseback would not be my deciding factor. All of the options would be acceptable, even if I have a clear preference.


----------



## Bandido

Actually if the caseback with 2020 will be a single stamp it will be difficult to reproduce out of the factory walls. 
This is enough, I think.


----------



## StrangeQuark

I personally don't find serial numbers for limited editions to be tacky. I happen to think they add an air of distinction to an already distinctive item. We're free to disagree, of course. But my preference is the year and serial number. I'd still like to see a poll for this so everyone can indicate their preference, though.


----------



## tokareva

Can the factory stamp the year and stamp 1 of 300? In Cyrillic of course.
That way it's exclusive without the cheap looking engraving and everybody gets the same number to prevent arguing.


----------



## StrangeQuark

tokareva said:


> Can the factory stamp the year and stamp 1 of 300? In Cyrillic of course.
> That way it's exclusive without the cheap looking engraving and everybody gets the same number to prevent arguing.


Lol! That's ridiculous, of course. The most expensive watch I own (still only about $1000) has laser engraving on the back and looks quite nice and classy. If it's done correctly, it doesn't have to look cheap. Also, even if this was a watch in grave danger of being copied (it isn't), stamping on the case back provides zero protection. It's not much harder to stamp something than to engrave it if you have the equipment necessary to copy a watch.

(besides, if I had a choice of numbers, and I don't expect to, I wouldn't choose "1")


----------



## tokareva

danbranan said:


> Lol! That's ridiculous, of course. The most expensive watch I own (still only about $1000) has laser engraving on the back and looks quite nice and classy. If it's done correctly, it doesn't have to look cheap. Also, even if this was a watch in grave danger of being copied (it isn't), stamping on the case back provides zero protection. It's not much harder to stamp something than to engrave it if you have the equipment necessary to copy a watch.
> 
> (besides, if I had a choice of numbers, and I don't expect to, I wouldn't choose "1")


Well maybe it could say something more like 300 pieces then , it's already obvious that it's one watch. I don't care one way or the other, I just don't really know what the numbers are for. It's usually just something that causes controversy. It seems to create an issue out of a non issue. :roll:


----------



## Sullivanjt

We can do a poll once the project is officially approved. I agree a laser engraving doesn't necessarily look cheap, but I would recommend comparing it to Meranom/Vostok's past work, rather than to other watch brands. Does anyone have a picture of some previous limited edition engravings they've done?


----------



## StrangeQuark

Sullivanjt said:


> We can do a poll once the project is officially approved. I agree a laser engraving doesn't necessarily look cheap, but I would recommend comparing it to Meranom/Vostok's past work, rather than to other watch brands. Does anyone have a picture of some previous limited edition engravings they've done?


I don't know how many numbered limited editions Vostok has done, but the first compressor reissue had a back that looked like this. I don't think it looks cheap or tacky at all, personally. And I'm pretty sure everything on that case back was laser engraved.








(from USSR Watches CCCP: Russians)


----------



## Kotsov

danbranan said:


> Lol! That's ridiculous, of course. The most expensive watch I own (still only about $1000) has laser engraving on the back and looks quite nice and classy. If it's done correctly, it doesn't have to look cheap. Also, even if this was a watch in grave danger of being copied (it isn't), stamping on the case back provides zero protection. It's not much harder to stamp something than to engrave it if you have the equipment necessary to copy a watch.
> 
> (besides, if I had a choice of numbers, and I don't expect to, I wouldn't choose "1")


It generally means "one of x" not "number one of x"


----------



## Mossback

Lovely a great choice IMO.


----------



## StrangeQuark

Kotsov said:


> It generally means "one of x" not "number one of x"


Ah, I see now. I owe comrade Tokareva an apology, then. I thought he was being provocative and saying "just give everyone the serial number of 1". Sorry that I didn't understand that he literally meant to indicate "one watch of a batch of 300". Anyway, I think the serial numbers are a nice touch and I don't see them as a source of conflict, at least I don't view them in that way. Once the project is approved and we have a poll to indicate what people want on the case back, I will be happy with whatever the group decides. It's an important element of the watch, but it's not a make or break in my opinion.


----------



## tokareva

danbranan said:


> Ah, I see now. I owe comrade Tokareva an apology, then. I thought he was being provocative and saying "just give everyone the serial number of 1".


No apology necessary comrade. I didn't say it right, and meant one out of 300 as Kotsov correctly said. However I was working and my brain wasn't. Anyhow that would look better than E Pluribus Unum on the back.


----------



## OCSleeper

Initially you could include me in the camp of preferring the year and 000/000 on the case back. My first thought was one of pride at the idea of exclusivity of a one out of 000, but the truth is owning one of these watches in itself provides that. 
Then I contemplated how it would be possible to not leave those out who want some form of a serial number and wondered if it would be possible to receive a document that accompanies each watch that provides an identifier to the original purchaser. This in turn could be etched by each individual on the inside of the case back if he/she so chooses.
Personally I like how the old watch passports have aged on my NOS Soviet era watches, and are more valuable to me than a stamp on the case back. If this is a possible option maybe there is also some cost incentive too.
Just my thoughts and I’ll be thrilled however it transpires.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tokareva

I still think the stamped date with 300 pieces = 300 штук 
would look good.

Or may be possible to use 300 шт.


----------



## Bandido

I'm sorry, but I cannot see anything useful in 1 of 300 (one of) or the 300шт.
It is an extra unnecessary badge for me like those boy scout patches for something does not related to survival skills.


----------



## tokareva

Bandido said:


> I'm sorry, but I cannot see anything useful in 1 of 300 (one of) or the 300шт.
> It is an extra unnecessary badge for me like those boy scout patches for something does not related to survival skills.


Ok, I tried. Personally for me I would prefer only the date anyway. However, if most want numbers it won't hurt my feelings any.


----------



## Bandido

Just a date is cool.
Anyway guys want a poll about it.


----------



## lorroberty

Premise: interested in the watch no matter the case-back
Opinion: when involved in some special edition or starting a project in Kickstarter I like the idea of "immortalise" the event. I don't think that a small xxx/300 or a "a WUS original project" writing on the case-back is tacky or excessive and I am favouring it. I am not actually interested in the number per se, I could really accept any; is just a small way of differentiating this watch from just a ready-to-wear Hamilton I can buy in any shop.


----------



## tokareva

I know this is still only in the development stage but I still want to formally request to reserve one of each color, thank you. I have a feeling this one is going to fill up fast.

Numbers 1 and 2 will be fine...:-d


----------



## Kotsov

tokareva said:


> I know this is still only in the development stage but I still want to formally request to reserve one of each color, thank you. I have a feeling this one is going to fill up fast.
> 
> Numbers 1 and 2 will be fine...:-d


Ditto. With serial numbers lower than Tokerevas


----------



## tokareva

Kotsov said:


> Ditto. With serial numbers lower than Tokerevas


I would actually be very happy with 299 and 300 :-!


----------



## iomran

Bandido said:


> Maybe it is better to centre the year stamp and put the number laser engraving right under.
> Just not to have a mixture of stamps and laser marking on the same level.


Good idea!


----------



## Bandido

tokareva said:


> I would actually be very happy with 299 and 300 :-!


May I modestly have a #50 with orange 12? In case, if we already staking out the numbers.

Is the next step clear for the organisers? Maybe we can give a hand about it?


----------



## iomran

tokareva said:


> I know this is still only in the development stage but I still want to formally request to reserve one of each color, thank you. I have a feeling this one is going to fill up fast.
> 
> Numbers 1 and 2 will be fine...:-d


One is enough for me. With orange decoration. But certainly number 8


----------



## Fergfour

Choosing numbers already? We don't even know how many willing participants there yet (hopefully more than the 87 who voted yes), or when they can actually make the watch, could be into next year the way things are these days. The RE IV Meranom project which is already finalized has been on hold for a while now.


----------



## Martin_F

Maybe those that have done it could describe the process for us newbies?
What are the next steps, hurdles that have to be taking in order for this to happen?
How will the ordering process work, who handles the payments?

There were some comments above about the slots filling up quickly. And other talks about getting a broader audience involved to make sure there will be enough people interested to make it happen.
Will people on here get preferred treatment to get their order in, before it gets opened up to everyone?

Like I said, I'm a newbie, so I have more questions than answers at this point


----------



## Bandido

Everybody is running. So am I))))


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Bandido said:


> Everybody is running. So am I))))


Kindly translate it, please? My Russian is rusty... as in non existent...:-d


----------



## tokareva

Martin_F said:


> Maybe those that have done it could describe the process for us newbies?
> What are the next steps, hurdles that have to be taking in order for this to happen?
> How will the ordering process work, who handles the payments?
> 
> There were some comments above about the slots filling up quickly. And other talks about getting a broader audience involved to make sure there will be enough people interested to make it happen.
> Will people on here get preferred treatment to get their order in, before it gets opened up to everyone?
> 
> Like I said, I'm a newbie, so I have more questions than answers at this point


I don't know the answers to your questions but I assume if you voted yes in the pole you are covered. The ones who voted no will be left out in the cold due to their defeatist attitude. :-d


----------



## elsoldemayo

Martin_F said:


> Maybe those that have done it could describe the process for us newbies?
> What are the next steps, hurdles that have to be taking in order for this to happen?
> How will the ordering process work, who handles the payments?
> 
> There were some comments above about the slots filling up quickly. And other talks about getting a broader audience involved to make sure there will be enough people interested to make it happen.
> Will people on here get preferred treatment to get their order in, before it gets opened up to everyone?
> 
> Like I said, I'm a newbie, so I have more questions than answers at this point


As this is to be a faithful reproduction the main questions are the tenhical feasibilty of manufacturing it which Sullivanjt is pushing forward. Ordering is usually a case of requesting one here and then you will be added to a list, usually on Google docs so everyone can see.
Payment is done via Meranom. They get the list of participants with email addresses and send you a link to allow you login and buy as you would any watch on their site. But you need the link to be able to access the right page. 
Tip: if you request a watch, give the email you use to logon to Meranom or is can be a little more complex.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

tokareva said:


> I don't know the answers to your questions but I assume if you voted yes in the pole you are covered. The ones who voted no will be left out in the cold due to their defeatist attitude. :-d


:-d


----------



## rokman

Those of us who participated in the last reissue, just hope that this project will finish in less than 5 years.
LOL.

Keep up the good work and we will be here to support you 

Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bandido

BRUICHLADICH said:


> Kindly translate it, please? My Russian is rusty... as in non existent...:-d


This is a famous USSR comedy Gentlemen of fortune.
It is about the prisoners whose escape was staged by cops and one decoy prisoner to trace them afterwards and find the stolen helmet of Alexander the Great
This guy is an occasional fellow who was not in plan.

The decoy prisoner asked him 
- Why you are here?
- Everybody is running. So am I))))


----------



## max888

Bandido said:


> May I modestly have a #50 with orange 12?


And that already numbers distribute? Please leave #7 and #77 for me.


----------



## Martin_F

elsoldemayo said:


> As this is to be a faithful reproduction the main questions are the tenhical feasibilty of manufacturing it which Sullivanjt is pushing forward. Ordering is usually a case of requesting one here and then you will be added to a list, usually on Google docs so everyone can see.
> Payment is done via Meranom. They get the list of participants with email addresses and send you a link to allow you login and buy as you would any watch on their site. But you need the link to be able to access the right page.
> Tip: if you request a watch, give the email you use to logon to Meranom or is can be a little more complex.


Thanks for the reply. That makes a lot of sense. I'll be on the lookout for the list to be added to.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Bandido said:


> This is a famous USSR comedy Gentlemen of fortune.
> It is about the prisoners whose escape was staged by cops and one decoy prisoner to trace them afterwards and find the stolen helmet of Alexander the Great
> This guy is an occasional fellow who was not in plan.
> 
> The decoy prisoner asked him
> - Why you are here?
> - Everybody is running. So am I))))


:-db-)

I see now, thanks!!


----------



## Mossback

I like the idea of limited edition numbers but am Okay with whatever the group wants.
Bandido could have #13? ;^)


----------



## Kotsov

Fergfour said:


> Choosing numbers already? We don't even know how many willing participants there yet (hopefully more than the 87 who voted yes), or when they can actually make the watch, could be into next year the way things are these days. The RE IV Meranom project which is already finalized has been on hold for a while now.


Open the numbers now to the contributors right now rather than to those who are at the right place and time in terms of investment.

No 25 for me and 300 for tokareva


----------



## Kotsov

Kotsov said:


> Open the numbers now to the contributors right now rather than to those who are at the right place and time in terms of investment.
> 
> No 25 for me and 300 for tokareva


Oh, and 16 please.


----------



## Fergfour

I'm sure Sullivanjt is busy reading through all the posts taking everyone's number requests down


----------



## Kotsov

Fergfour said:


> I'm sure Sullivanjt is busy reading through all the posts taking everyone's number requests down


 Not sure if serious


----------



## Bandido

Mossback said:


> I like the idea of limited edition numbers but am Okay with whatever the group wants.
> Bandido could have #13? ;^)


Didn't get the joke, if any, honestly.


----------



## Kirill Sergueev

looks like a division of the skin of the bear which is still alive.


----------



## mariomart

Can I get a Negative number reserved? :-d


----------



## Kirill Sergueev

mariomart said:


> Can I get a Negative number reserved? :-d


you going to get this number pick one a + bi


----------



## zolotoff

Hello everyone! Am I right understand that will be made 2 colors versions? And the design is complete? And there will be 300 pieces of every version?


----------



## Sullivanjt

zolotoff said:


> Hello everyone! Am I right understand that will be made 2 colors versions? And the design is complete? And there will be 300 pieces of every version?


Thanks for commenting - we are not certain yet what Meranom is capable of doing. When we get the 3D example of what they can make, I will ask if we can do both colors, and how many we need to order if we want both. I will let everyone know once the next phase of the project moves forward!


----------



## Kotsov

mariomart said:


> Can I get a Negative number reserved? :-d


To any decimal places?


----------



## lorroberty

Kotsov said:


> To any decimal places?


so to have a proportion of a proportion?

so to have 5/7 of 300? or even better 5/7/300

I would like the Avogadro number if possible


----------



## mariomart

Put me down for Pi please :-!


----------



## frenchtreasure

Just went through the 38 pages.
*Sullivanjt* and *Miguel* are doing a great job and I fully support and appreciate the philosophy behind the project (=keep as close as possible to original).
Count me in, #55


----------



## Kotsov

mariomart said:


> Put me down for Pi please :-!


And chips?


----------



## Bandido

Sooooo deeeeeep flooooooded))))


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Hello everyone!

While Dmitry Buyalov is working on the case design (and figuring out other aspects of the project, of course) there won't be much more to do than wait. 
So, I'll leave you here a mockup of the most up-to-date version of the design (I already sent it to Sullivanjt a few days ago but, since we were focusing on the caseback design, I haven't shown it here):









There were very minor tweaks to some details (especially on the lume triangle shape and the bezel colored arches, that I felt could be made even closer to the original) and a few colors finetuning. In the caseback, the Amphibia logo was also tweaked to make it more cohesive (it had some sloppy details).

Otherwise, it's the design you already know.  Let's see if we can sail this ship to a good port.


----------



## max888

*Miguel Fazendas*,great job!Thank!


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> While Dmitry Buyalov is working on the case design (and figuring out other aspects of the project, of course) there won't be much more to do than wait.
> So, I'll leave you here a mockup of the most up-to-date version of the design (I already sent it to Sullivanjt a few days ago but, since we were focusing on the caseback design, I haven't shown it here):
> 
> View attachment 15148159
> 
> 
> There were very minor tweaks to some details (especially on the lume triangle shape and the bezel colored arches, that I felt could be made even closer to the original) and a few colors finetuning. In the caseback, the Amphibia logo was also tweaked to make it more cohesive (it had some sloppy details).
> 
> Otherwise, it's the design you already know.  Let's see if we can sail this ship to a good port.


Excellent, thanks!!


----------



## 1afc

Sullivanjt said:


> Alright, an update.
> 
> After speaking with Meranom, here's the information I have:
> - He has an original case, with box glass. Pictures attached. The case dimensions are 40mm wide, 47mm lug-to-lug, 18mm strap width.
> - They used domed sapphire for the last reissue. He has stated that we could use either mineral or sapphire box crystal for a more original look. They will try their best to make it as close to the old one as possible, to include the oversized crowns. The mineral crystal would be cheaper, but would only get up to 10ATM. Sapphire is obviously more expensive, but is more likely to get the full 20ATM. No cost estimate yet.
> 
> - Dmitry does NOT have an original dial or bezel. If we want an original look, we will need to design it ourselves. He will need the Pantone colors we choose. I do not have the software to develop a design, so I would appreciate any recommendations on what to use.
> 
> If you have any questions, please let me know. I'll try to collect them through the week and contact Dmitry closer to the end of the week, so I'm not inundating him with questions every day. I'll make sure I edit the first post with this information as well. Please continue to actually vote in the poll, so I get a better idea of the numbers we'll have supporting the project.
> 
> View attachment 15091921
> 
> View attachment 15091923


Can someone confirm that the dial is an Amphibia dial size @ 28.4mm?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> While Dmitry Buyalov is working on the case design (and figuring out other aspects of the project, of course) there won't be much more to do than wait.
> So, I'll leave you here a mockup of the most up-to-date version of the design (I already sent it to Sullivanjt a few days ago but, since we were focusing on the caseback design, I haven't shown it here):
> 
> View attachment 15148159
> 
> 
> There were very minor tweaks to some details (especially on the lume triangle shape and the bezel colored arches, that I felt could be made even closer to the original) and a few colors finetuning. In the caseback, the Amphibia logo was also tweaked to make it more cohesive (it had some sloppy details).
> 
> Otherwise, it's the design you already know.  Let's see if we can sail this ship to a good port.


We're assuming, for now, that it is (for the dial design, the bezel's interior diameter is more determinant, as there's an overlap).

Final dimensions will be tweaked to the final case design.

Having said that, considering we've seen original compressor dials used on regular Amphibia watches (after having their feet cut), it's possible they have the same diameter.


----------



## elsoldemayo

A minor detail on the mockup bezel, the numerals seem sharper at the corners than the original. I find the more rounded numerals on the original a huge part of it's charm as they look almost hand applied.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

elsoldemayo said:


> A minor detail on the mockup bezel, the numerals seem sharper at the corners than the original. I find the more rounded numerals on the original a huge part of it's charm as they look almost hand applied.


They weren't hand applied but they were hand designed (and the printing process used tended to round the edges)!

There are some limitations in translating these vintage designs, of course: first of all because we can have total consistency in the computer while they couldn't. If you look for them you'll always be finding differences between our design and the original: some corners are arbitrarily more rounded than others on the original, while ours always have the same radius.

There are technical limitations to what can be efficiently done with the software, too, that have to be taken into consideration: the last 1% -as is usually said- would require taking this as a full time job to achieve, which is not possible. 

But I'll keep looking into it to see if there are better compromises to be made (including on the numerals design as you suggested) and will always continue improving the design at every chance until it's time to freeze it.


----------



## tokareva

elsoldemayo said:


> A minor detail on the mockup bezel, the numerals seem sharper at the corners than the original. I find the more rounded numerals on the original a huge part of it's charm as they look almost hand applied.


Good observation, they are more rounded , kind of like the numbers on a Raketa big zero.
I agree they are extremely important to match the original look. Is it possible to make them look more like the originals?

* Edit:* Nevermind, comrade Miguel already answered before I could ask.


----------



## Kotsov

With my eyesight just seeing the numerals is a bonus.


----------



## tokareva

Miguel Fazendas said:


> - would require taking this as a full time job to achieve, which is not possible.


Comrade Miguel, maybe you could just take a leave from your regular job until the project is finished. :think:. :roll: :-!


----------



## Dave51

Miguel,

It looks great! The designs look fantastic.


----------



## t3tan3k

To me, bezel font looks more or less like this


----------



## tokareva

Couldn't an original bezel just be scanned to copy the design, like when you take a photograph to make a copy at Walmart?


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Good observation, they are more rounded , kind of like the numbers on a Raketa big zero.
> I agree they are extremely important to match the original look. Is it possible to make them look more like the originals?
> 
> * Edit:* Nevermind, comrade Miguel already answered before I could ask.
> 
> View attachment 15148833


Please take also into account that the curves look rounder on the top half of each digit because the crystal is deforming the shapes of the numerals (as is easily seen on this photo).

The mockup doesn't include the way the crystal deforms them (it would be too troublesome to do).


----------



## tokareva

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Please take also into account that the curves look rounder on the top half of each digit because the crystal is deforming the shapes of the numerals (as is easily seen on this photo).
> 
> The mockup doesn't include the way the crystal deforms them (it would be too troublesome to do).


I'm glad you mentioned the shape of the crystal, comrade, it's something that I've been wondering about. If the original is domed and the new one is a rounded box crystal, will it cause the bezel numbers to look different somehow? Maybe distorted?


----------



## 24h

tokareva said:


> Couldn't an original bezel just be scanned to copy the design, like when you take a photograph to make a copy at Walmart?


You would still need to trace everything by hand to create a vector graphic, and I'm not so sure it would turn out any different than what Miguel has already designed.
He's done a great job!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Couldn't an original bezel just be scanned to copy the design, like when you take a photograph to make a copy at Walmart?


No..  Because no one will be disassembling their compressor for that, because a scan won't produce a vector design with Pantone spot colours as needed, and because we would be reproducing the imperfect production result and not the impeccable design behind it.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> I'm glad you mentioned the shape of the crystal, comrade, it's something that I've been wondering about. If the original is domed and the new one is a rounded box crystal, will it cause the bezel numbers to look different somehow? Maybe distorted?


That's an unknown for the time being  but the original bezel wasn't designed to correct the distortion, so we're safe. We must wait and see how the crystal will be (but Sullivanjt mentioned that Dmitry feels confident he can reproduce the same shape of the original one).


----------



## tokareva

24h said:


> He's done a great job!


I agree completely, he has done a great job, but there's always room for improvement. :-d


----------



## 24h

tokareva said:


> I agree completely, he has done a great job, but there's always room for improvement. :-d


I think no matter what you see on your screen, the actual print will have some inconsistencies.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Glad to spark a little more debate and never take anything I post as any criticism of the wonderful job done in such a short time by Miguel, Sullivanjt and others. I know we all want the same thing 

I take the point about the crystal distorting the numerals slightly but anything which brings the new design closer to the rounded, slightly thicker at the top of the numeral look of the original will make me want the watch even more. And I already own both incarnations of the most recent re-issue.


----------



## Marijn2

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> While Dmitry Buyalov is working on the case design (and figuring out other aspects of the project, of course) there won't be much more to do than wait.
> So, I'll leave you here a mockup of the most up-to-date version of the design (I already sent it to Sullivanjt a few days ago but, since we were focusing on the caseback design, I haven't shown it here):
> 
> View attachment 15148159
> 
> 
> There were very minor tweaks to some details (especially on the lume triangle shape and the bezel colored arches, that I felt could be made even closer to the original) and a few colors finetuning. In the caseback, the Amphibia logo was also tweaked to make it more cohesive (it had some sloppy details).
> 
> Otherwise, it's the design you already know.  Let's see if we can sail this ship to a good port.


Very nice work Miguel! Orange 12 with #72 for me please


----------



## Kotsov

Marijn2 said:


> Very nice work Miguel! Orange 12 with #72 for me please


We need a list, things are moving fast :-!;-)


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Went to sleep and look... more debate and more excellent work... Great project, comrades!


----------



## RedFroggy

I like the orange 12 as well, always thought the green/yellow looked like a faded orange 12 until I was told it was fitted in the Ministry case . 
# 128 if poss to match my Slavstok ;-)


----------



## StrangeQuark

Orange 12 version for me. Number 66 if possible.


----------



## digdug

First time on WUS in a while and excited to see this project! Does anyone have photos handy that shows other Compressor re-issues?


----------



## Kotsov

digdug said:


> First time on WUS in a while and excited to see this project! Does anyone have photos handy that shows other Compressor re-issues?


That's a good idea.


----------



## rokman

Here's mine









Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk


----------



## elsoldemayo

digdug said:


> First time on WUS in a while and excited to see this project! Does anyone have photos handy that shows other Compressor re-issues?


----------



## NeedfulThings84

I would like to join this project &#55357;&#56490;&#55357;&#56490; how can I join?


----------



## NeedfulThings84

I would like to join this project 💪💪 how can I join?


----------



## Sullivanjt

NeedfulThings84 said:


> I would like to join this project &#55357;&#56490;&#55357;&#56490; how can I join?


Vote in the poll! And I will let everyone know when we can start requesting watches officially. Right now I am waiting for the manufacturer to confirm they are able to make everything to our specifications, and to get an updated price. I don't want to collect names and then have to tell everyone that the project either significantly jumped in price, or that the watch isn't going to look like what everyone wants.

But, I'm always glad to hear that more people are interested in joining!


----------



## haha

Comparing with the reissue gave me the idea to try that. Depending on the cost, i might really have it done...


----------



## Martin_F

elsoldemayo said:


> View attachment 15151745
> View attachment 15151747


I prefer our new project. It's a lot closer to the original than those two.


----------



## digdug

rokman said:


> Here's mine





elsoldemayo said:


> View attachment 15151745
> View attachment 15151747


Thanks! Those are really nice! Around what time were these made? I'd like to see the caseback, too, if it's not too much trouble. I think I saw a pic of the caseback earlier in the thread.


----------



## Fergfour

digdug said:


> Thanks! Those are really nice! Around what time were these made? I'd like to see the caseback, too, if it's not too much trouble. I think I saw a pic of the caseback earlier in the thread.


Came out early 2018 I believe. As far as pictures go, all you have to do is google Vostok Compressor Meranom 
https://meranom.com/en/amfibia/vostok-watch-compressor-800b27.html


----------



## Sullivanjt

Martin_F said:


> Looking good. Any chance we can get a copy of the 3D files to look at?
> I agree, the logo on winding crown only would be preferred.


I don't have files, only the photos. I agree about the crowns, but I didn't feel it was wise to nitpick the images right away. Once he's confirmed we can do the bezel, and we start finalizing designs, then I'll let him know about the crowns. Winding crown only, if at all!


----------



## Bandido

tokareva said:


> Unless there is a "B" on the original why would we need one on the reissue?
> 
> Hopefully those crowns shown are just so kind of stock images used for design purposes, they look like the new machined crowns.


Maybe because it looks more completed and traditional. 
Anyway if the community against that logo, ok.

I would say that chances to have rolled/stamped crowns are less than we can accept.

Probably the only option is a machined crown.


----------



## tokareva

Bandido said:


> Maybe because it looks more completed and traditional.
> Anyway if the community against that logo, ok.


Well ,you are probably right that it would be nice if making a new watch , but I thought the whole idea is to replicate the original that doesn't have a B.

Anyhow, if they use the old style crowns I don't think they could even put a B on them. Maybe they can't make the watch with the stamped crowns for some reason.

What size are the original crowns? Are they bigger than standard old style stamped amphibia crowns?

If they can only use machined crowns one B would be ok with me.


----------



## Bandido

It is simple for me. I would accept the crown with and without B, rolled/stamped or machined. The only 1 condition is important for me personally is a right proportion, same as the original.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Do we know if the crowns on the original are larger when compared to standard Vostok crowns? They do appear to be in any of the images we have of the original watches.
If they are is this something which can be replicated?


----------



## tokareva

Bandido said:


> I would say that chances to have rolled/stamped crowns are less than we can accept.
> 
> Probably the only option is a machined crown.


I think you're probably right, unfortunately.

That would be a little disappointing because they are such a prominent feature, but it definitely wouldn't be a deal breaker. The drawings still look great.


----------



## Bandido

Heh...
I have more scrupulous question about the crowns on the original Compressor, by the way.
Can the owners of the original watch reply? 
Is the winding crown spring handed or wobbling like a classical Amphibian crown?


----------



## Kotsov

Bandido said:


> Heh...
> I have more scrupulous question about the crowns on the original Compressor, by the way.
> Can the owners of the original watch reply?
> Is the winding crown spring handed or wobbling like a classical Amphibian crown?


Ooh, that's a good one.


----------



## MattBrace

Bandido said:


> Heh...
> I have more scrupulous question about the crowns on the original Compressor, by the way.
> Can the owners of the original watch reply?
> Is the winding crown spring handed or wobbling like a classical Amphibian crown?


Both crowns are wobbly, the winding crown is a standard Amphibian crown/stem arrangement.

Cheers...


----------



## Kotsov

Can we have OCD on one of the crowns.

No, wait, the lower one.


----------



## Marijn2

Nice images already! Good work. About the crowns, I think there should not be logo's on them as the original does not have them either. Having that said, I think it must be possible to use the B signed crowns but without the b stamping on it. That would be the best option in my opinion in case the old style crown can not be replicated. The new stainless type crown which can be found on the new amphibias I do really hate as they are too long/sharpish and have a tendency to dig into your wrist.


----------



## Bandido

Anyway these crowns expected to be customised for the project (the shape, the size). That is why there is no big sense to compare them with the standard Amphibian crown.


----------



## t3tan3k

Looks to me like the bezel is too wide on these models - maybe not to the same extent as the previous project Compressor, but noticeably compared to Original compressor images found online. I could be wrong on this, or it could be the angles the model is shown at.. At any rate this is one of the crucial details that needs to be done right.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

I believe the model was made from a direct 3D scan of an original case, and it looks pretty spot on to me!


















(The 3D model is presented in a parallel perspective -instead of the conical one of the photos- so that may change the perception of the shapes a bit.)


----------



## tokareva

I hope it will be possible to replicate the gap that exists between the case and the crown. If the crowns are recessed or even fit flush with the case it's obviously not going to look the same.


----------



## Dave51

Bandido said:


> Probably the only option is a machined crown.


Actually, if the other parameters are correct, machined would be a great option. A well machined part is a beautiful thing.


----------



## tokareva

We already have a version with machined crowns though...:roll:

Also, I think the grooves are deeper on the machined crowns than the stamped version, causing the machined crowns to appear smaller.


----------



## t3tan3k

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I believe the model was made from a direct 3D scan of an original case, and it looks pretty spot on to me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (The 3D model is presented in a parallel perspective -instead of the conical one of the photos- so that may change the perception of the shapes a bit.)


You are probably right, it does look about the same as on this photo...


----------



## jose-CostaRica

Is the case supplier using amphibia crown tubes? Or will machine custom ones?

Enviado desde Costa Rica


----------



## Sayan

Quick question: are both crowns are screw-down crowns? Or just the one for winding the watch? I would like to see them both be screw down without a logo.


----------



## tblox

And another. I'm definitely interested, but couldn't vote in the poll as a newbie.


----------



## tokareva

Is there any reason why the poll has to close now? Maybe it could be extended.


----------



## Martin_F

What happened to the last three pages of this thread?


----------



## Fergfour

Martin_F said:


> What happened to the last three pages of this thread?


Not seeing an issue


----------



## elsoldemayo

Testing....


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

elsoldemayo said:


> Testing....


Working fine here


----------



## 24h

I can't see any posts made on this thread within the last five days...


----------



## NerdThing

Working again for me now. Very peculiar! 

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sullivanjt

I have had difficulty as well, but it seems better now. Not like I've had any updates anyway


----------



## bva

This has grabbed my attention. Time to delve into the previous pages.


----------



## Martin_F

Working for me again as well. Thanks!


----------



## mudylych

Count me in if it is not too late .


----------



## detroie

We still dont have remain 300 members(


----------



## tokareva

detroie said:


> We still dont have remain 300 members(


Don't worry comrade, they will advertise it on Facebook after all of this details are finished. I'm certain that if the Luna dude can sell 600+ there this can sell 200 there.


----------



## tokareva

Duplicate


----------



## Bandido

Please, remind me the price if the previous compressor.

It was about 14500 - 15000 in roubles
Appr 230 USD?


----------



## elsoldemayo

Just checked my Meranom history and the date version was $267 and no date version was $250.


----------



## Bandido

So it was 1:59 USD to RUB

1:68 currently


----------



## rokman

elsoldemayo said:


> Just checked my Meranom history and the date version was $267 and no date version was $250.


Yes 267 is correct

Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sullivanjt

No news yet. I will ask for an update at the end of the week.


----------



## Dave51

Sullivanjt said:


> No news yet. I will ask for an update at the end of the week.


Thanks for the update!


----------



## Sullivanjt

Just spoke with Dmitry this morning - the supplier is still working through the bezel construction. Additionally, they are ensuring the box type sapphire crystal will be able to actually reach a 200m water rating. I'll let you all know when I hear more!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Thanks for the update!


----------



## lorroberty

just a small curiosity:
what will be produced in Chistopol and what will be outsourced, if you know?


----------



## hoja_roja

Probably at Chistopol, just the movement


----------



## lorroberty

hoja_roja said:


> Probably at Chistopol, just the movement


oh I "hoped" cases where milled "in-house"!


----------



## detroie

tokareva said:


> Don't worry comrade, they will advertise it on Facebook after all of this details are finished. I'm certain that if the Luna dude can sell 600+ there this can sell 200 there.


At the NVH 30 project on WRU there were more than 400 participants at the list, and almost half of them step aside after watch was ready for sale.

I hope that all 600+member will buy ordered watches, but reality will show us how many will be in fact.

Same situation here, 300+ participants, I'm not sure that all watches will be sold according to the list


----------



## tokareva

detroie said:


> At the NVH 30 project on WRU there were more than 400 participants at the list, and almost half of them step aside after watch was ready for sale.
> 
> I hope that all 600+member will buy ordered watches, but reality will show us how many will be in fact.
> 
> Same situation here, 300+ participants, I'm not sure that all watches will be sold according to the list


Well, you have some valid points, comrade. However, I'm hoping this one should be a very accurate reproduction, (it seems to be already) which should make it irresistible.


----------



## elsoldemayo

When it can be over a year from sign-up to completion it's the nature of these projects that people drop out. However if Meranom have requested an additional 100 for open sale on their site, it's a good sign they have never had problems selling any watches which are not picked up by project participants.
I got the no date version of the previous compressor project when it just popped up on the Meranom page a few months after they were all gone.


----------



## Sullivanjt

An update: Dmitry has asked if we would want to do a double domed sapphire crystal with a chamfer edge, instead of the box type. The reason he's asking is because it's about $50 less than the box type crystal we predicted we'd use. See the attached pictures for comparison.



















Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Hello everyone:
Sullivanjt had the courtesy of reaching out with this situation a few minutes ago, and I've been looking at my references 
















It seems, actually, that the double-domed crystal is quite closer to the original than the box one. If it even makes the watch more cost-effective, brilliant!


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Miguel Fazendas said:


> It seems, actually, that the double-domed crystal is quite closer to the original than the box one. If it even makes the watch more cost-effective, brilliant!


Agree! And... it turns out it's the one I prefer...!:-!


----------



## Oldheritage

Looks good to me, no problem with the double dome.


----------



## StrangeQuark

Yep, the double-domed crystal looks like the one for me as well, since it appears to be the most authentic-looking. The fact that it's cheaper is just a bonus. Thanks to Miguel for pointing out the detail - just casually looking at the photos of the original, it's not obvious that the double-domed crystal is the better match.


----------



## Martin_F

Double domed it is!


----------



## Sayan

Double domed and $50.00 for savings!


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> Hello everyone:
> Sullivanjt had the courtesy of reaching out with this situation a few minutes ago, and I've been looking at my references
> 
> View attachment 15215225
> 
> View attachment 15215223
> 
> 
> It seems, actually, that the double-domed crystal is quite closer to the original than the box one. If it even makes the watch more cost-effective, brilliant!


I'm fine with the double domed too.


----------



## NerdThing

Double domed is doubley hot! 

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sullivanjt

Sounds like enough of a consensus to me. I'll let Dmitry know we'll go with the double dome. If 3D renders show a wildly different shape for the watch than we expected, I'll let everyone know and we can reassess.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bva

like the double dome as well


----------



## tokareva

The double domed lens won't cause some kind of weird magnification or distortion will it?

*Edit:* Nevermind, I figured out it's the good one.


----------



## Quempas

Add me to the list, please!


----------



## Quempas

And here I was, about to try and answer you helpfully. I'm just too slow! LOL


----------



## Kirill Sergueev

Is it go ?


----------



## Kotsov

Kirill Sergueev said:


> Is it go ?


Seems so


----------



## Marijn2

I am good with the DD sapphire too. If it saves us the money while looks are almost the same I think we should go for it.
Thanks for the update!


----------



## Marijn2

edit: double post removed


----------



## Christopher-N

bva said:


> like the double dome as well


Me too


----------



## haejuk

My only concern with the double dome is that it may require a deeper rehaut than the boxed crystal in order to get the same amount of clearance for the hands. This means that the case itself usually needs to be thicker to accommodate this. This can result in a watch with the same thickness overall, but the actual metal part of the case will be thicker and throw off our desired proportions. I hope this will not be the case here, but that's how it usually goes.


----------



## Quempas

That's a really interesting point. I'll be hoping that the proportions don't get thrown off, too. As is, the design is perfect.


----------



## Martin_F

haejuk said:


> My only concern with the double dome is that it may require a deeper rehaut than the boxed crystal in order to get the same amount of clearance for the hands. This means that the case itself usually needs to be thicker to accommodate this. This can result in a watch with the same thickness overall, but the actual metal part of the case will be thicker and throw off our desired proportions. I hope this will not be the case here, but that's how it usually goes.


Assuming that the glass is only a millimeter or two, the internal difference doesn't seem too much to me.
Also the hands don't even reach out side of the dive ring, so I think we'll be fine!


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Martin_F said:


> Assuming that the glass is only a millimeter or two, the internal difference doesn't seem too much to me.
> Also the hands don't even reach out side of the dive ring, so I think we'll be fine!


Yes, near the crystal there's just the inner bezel: the hands work on a plane under that.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Good news then...|>


----------



## Sullivanjt

A couple things: 

First, I submitted the project to forum moderators for approval. There are still a few questions to be answered about the watch, but I figured it was time. If it gets approved, I will post the sign-up roster in a new thread.

Second, Miguel Fazendas and I spoke with Dmitry on Friday - he stated we can only choose one dial version, as he cannot alternate limited edition numbers between examples. This brings up a question: would people prefer limited edition numbers on the caseback, or a second dial color? I am going to ask Dmitry whether it's possible to do a second dial color within the same order amount, or if we would need to order additional pieces.

Second, if we cannot have both dials, which do you prefer? The Orange or Green?


----------



## jose-CostaRica

I personally couldn't care less about the limited edition numbers, I would like to have both dials done. If this project becomes real I will buy both dial versions.

But if I'm obligated to choose, it will be the orange one.

again, to me a number in the caseback mean nothing.

Enviado desde Costa Rica


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

I think my opinion is known too  if by not having numbered watches we can have both dials, I’d go for both dial colours.

(I’d buy both, and we can cater for fans of both color combinations, excluding no one, which can only be good for the project numbers.)


----------



## NerdThing

I'm happy with just the green dial and numbers, but I'm also pretty easy and happy to go with the flow. 

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sullivanjt

Just got the confirmation - Dmitry says it's possible to make two versions, if we don't use serial numbers/limited edition numbers.


----------



## Kotsov

Miguel Fazendas said:


> I think my opinion is known too  if by not having numbered watches we can have both dials, I'd go for both dial colours.
> 
> (I'd buy both, and we can cater for fans of both color combinations, excluding no one, which can only be good for the project numbers.)


What Miguel says is OK with me.

Inclusive rather than exclusive.

Learn from the Luna dude


----------



## Kotsov

Sullivanjt said:


> Just got the confirmation - Dmitry says it's possible to make two versions, if we don't use serial numbers/limited edition numbers.


Again, learning from the Luna dude unpleasantness let's not have numbers.


----------



## Sullivanjt

Kotsov said:


> What Miguel says is OK with me.
> 
> Inclusive rather than exclusive.
> 
> Learn from the Luna dude


What happened to the Luna Dude project?


----------



## tokareva

I definitely prefer both versions, I don't care about serial numbers.


----------



## lorroberty

yes! better more choice in dials than limited editions.
I do not believe in limited editions!


----------



## StrangeQuark

I'll go along with whichever choice allows me to get the orange version.


----------



## zolotoff

Whatever how many dials will be and I don't need numbers, I just want orange compressor))))


----------



## Chascomm

The project proposal is currently being assessed. If given the green light, I will arrange to a have a dedicated sub-forum space created.


----------



## elsoldemayo

Just to add another voice to the 'not bothered about serial numbers' if it means more dial choices and a better chance to bring the project to fruition.


----------



## mariomart

I'm not too fussed about serial numbers, but my focus is on the Orange dial.


----------



## BRUICHLADICH

Both colours is best IMHO. if that means no serial number, I'm OK with it...


----------



## Martin_F

I'd like to get the green version. No limited numbers is fine, but we'll still have 2020 on there, correct?


----------



## Victorv

I prefer two dial versions if possible.


----------



## iomran

mariomart said:


> I'm not too fussed about serial numbers, but my focus is on the Orange dial.


Similarly!


----------



## tblox

I also prefer the availability of both dial colours, forgoing limited edition caseback numbers.

The Orange dial would be my choice if only one colour is possible.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Martin_F said:


> I'd like to get the green version. No limited numbers is fine, but we'll still have 2020 on there, correct?


Yes, that would be no problem


----------



## Dave51

This is getting interesting!


----------



## Dave51

Numbers do not matter to me. The 2020 "edition" is enough. Giving more choice has many possible benefits, not the least of which is attracting more buyers.


----------



## digdug

I would also prefer more dial designs over a custom serial number. Would be really tempting to get the multiple dial options which would probably boost sales.  Are the dial options in this thread? I found several options in this other thread.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/vostok-compressor-dials-5187489.html


----------



## Sullivanjt

digdug said:


> I would also prefer more dial designs over a custom serial number. Would be really tempting to get the multiple dial options which would probably boost sales. Are the dial options in this thread? I found several options in this other thread.
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/vostok-compressor-dials-5187489.html


I think for this project I'd prefer to have a narrower focus and stick with the dials we have; it's not that I don't like the design, but I think we should stick with one pattern. If the project is successful, then we'll have the case shape and size that other projects can use.


----------



## Miguel Fazendas

Actually, the (prototype?) designs those drawings are based on use a different case, with 300 m wr and a manual winding movement. A different beast.


----------



## digdug

Sullivanjt said:


> I think for this project I'd prefer to have a narrower focus and stick with the dials we have; it's not that I don't like the design, but I think we should stick with one pattern. If the project is successful, then we'll have the case shape and size that other projects can use.


Sorry, I wasn't suggesting to use the dials from that thread. I was wondering where the dial options are at and had noticed that other thread.

Edit: After reading back, I guess it's the design from the first page but different color combinations?


----------



## tokareva

I want to return to the crowns for a moment. The original crowns have a convex shape, however the drawings appear to have flat crowns. I realize the drawings are only preliminary, but this is an important feature and want to make sure they will be convex.


----------



## Sullivanjt

digdug said:


> Sorry, I wasn't suggesting to use the dials from that thread. I was wondering where the dial options are at and had noticed that other thread.
> 
> Edit: After reading back, I guess it's the design from the first page but different color combinations?


This is an earlier render, but see below for the color schemes we're talking about!


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## Sullivanjt

tokareva said:


> I want to return to the crowns for a moment. The original crowns have a convex shape, however the drawings appear to have flat crowns. I realize the drawings are only preliminary, but this is an important feature and want to make sure they will be convex.


I can ask Dmitry about the crowns. We haven't gotten any new renders with the double domed crystal, so I can ask what the options are for crowns as that gets put together.


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## digdug

Sullivanjt said:


> This is an earlier render, but see below for the color schemes we're talking about!


Awesome, thanks! Such a good looking dial. Really looking forward to this one!


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## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> I want to return to the crowns for a moment. The original crowns have a convex shape, however the drawings appear to have flat crowns. I realize the drawings are only preliminary, but this is an important feature and want to make sure they will be convex.
> 
> View attachment 15237231
> 
> View attachment 15237233


Yes, both on my illustration (where I just mocked up something more or less believable, but not representing anything in particular) and on Dmitry's 3Ds (where he just used a placeholder crown) there was no real consideration about the crown design yet (though the threaded tube probably will be a standard Amphibia one as that's how the original was).


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## Miguel Fazendas

Maybe it would be opportune to refresh our memories about the design versions.


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## BRUICHLADICH

Comrades, I have a problem.. first, I favoured the orange one, now I'm not sure.. the green dial is also nice... Decisions, decisions...

Please, just don't say "get both"...:-d


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## Sullivanjt

Speaking of which to get, the information that we can make both brings up another question - how many of each to order? Based on the limited feedback here, I am proposing a 70/30 orange/green split. For 300 watches, this would mean 210 orange dials available, and 90 green dials available.

I have a second spreadsheet ready in case a waitlist is required. I will change it to allow people to request which dial color they want. If we get enough people to increase the size of the order, those requests will reflect which dials we get.


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## NerdThing

Sullivanjt said:


> This is an earlier render, but see below for the color schemes we're talking about!
> 
> View attachment 15237325


The orange is nice, but I'm in love with the green! Forget the numbering, let's have the dial choice please.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk


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## tokareva

I definitely want the green one, depending on how much the price is I might go ahead and get the orange also.

Will we have a chance to review sample dials before they go into production?


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## Sullivanjt

tokareva said:


> I definitely want the green one, depending on how much the price is I might go ahead and get the orange also.
> 
> Will we have a chance to review sample dials before they go into production?


Good question: I don't know. I'll ask Dmitry.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## tokareva

Sullivanjt said:


> Good question: I don't know. I'll ask Dmitry.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Ok, great. Has a definite color been chosen for the second hands? I realize that's probably a question maybe more for Miguel.


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## Miguel Fazendas

tokareva said:


> Ok, great. Has a definite color been chosen for the second hands? I realize that's probably a question maybe more for Miguel.


Yes, an orangey red (Pantone Red 32 c)


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## Sullivanjt

I got an answer surprisingly fast. Unfortunately, the crowns aren't going to be the same. But, they don't have to put the logos on them, if we just want plain crowns.

They'll have prototypes that we can see, but according to Dmitry, they are limited in the changes they can make at that stage.

Lastly, the supplier is still working on the bezel. But, it appears as if everything will come out as depicted in the 3D render.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Miguel Fazendas

Sullivanjt said:


> I got an answer surprisingly fast. Unfortunately, the crowns aren't going to be the same. But, they don't have to put the logos on them, if we just want plain crowns.
> 
> They'll have prototypes that we can see, but according to Dmitry, they are limited in the changes they can make at that stage.
> 
> Lastly, the supplier is still working on the bezel. But, it appears as if everything will come out as depicted in the 3D render.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I suspect it will be the same with sample dials: once the plates are engraved for the printing pads, the scope for change will be marginal if any.


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## Kirill Sergueev

both are good. But I am still recovering after NVCh-30. Hope it is not going to be a disaster.


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## Dave51

I am leaning green. I can't see how I can justify getting both. However, if you give me enough time . . . .


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## andrea__81

BRUICHLADICH said:


> Comrades, I have a problem.. first, I favoured the orange one, now I'm not sure.. the green dial is also nice... Decisions, decisions...
> 
> Please, just don't say "get both"...:-d


I usually love orange accents (have a few watches with them) but prefer how everything blends on the green dial in this case. The orange one seems a bit too busy for me.

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk


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## NerdThing

I'm glad I found this, albeit late. I'm definitely wanting a green one please. Have I mentioned that before?!?


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## Kotsov

List...


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## BRUICHLADICH

Fergfour said:


> I wonder where this fits in in relation to the RE Pripyat project, meaning would they work these projects in the order that they received them (the Pripyat has been lingering for a coulple months now), or is it based more on the supplier/manufacturer/parts needed to be produced?


Knowing... what we know, it all will depend on things like... the phase of the moon and such....


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## Sullivanjt

Appreciate it. Just trying not to raise expectations only to have them crash.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## agfa100

So do I have to ck in everyday on this listing to make sure I get on the list when the watch sales start? I did make it on the survey before it was closed will that be good enough?


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## Kotsov

The softly softly approach is understandable, and commendable, given what is going on and the progress made to date.

But a simple list of those interested wouldn’t be beyond the wit of man?


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## Kotsov

Put me down for two. Green and orange. No.1 and no.2


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## 24h

agfa100 said:


> So do I have to ck in everyday on this listing to make sure I get on the list when the watch sales start? I did make it on the survey before it was closed will that be good enough?


I think Sullivanjt can see who answered "yes" to the poll. Maybe when registration opens he can PM everyone?


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## 24h

Kotsov said:


> Put me down for two. Green and orange. No.1 and no.2


😂


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## Sullivanjt

Great news, the project has been approved! Chascomm has told me they're working on creating a subfolder for the project now. Once it's up and running, I will post the sign-up roster there.

I appreciate everyone's desire to join, and I'm not withholding the sign-up roster to be mean; I am trying to make sure all information about the project can be consolidated in one area, and therefore easily accessible.

All information will be posted in the subfolder from now on. We still have a few details to discuss: the crowns and the caseback. I will message Dmitry about the crowns to determine to what extent they can be re-created, but he has stated we can't do the old wobbly crowns. We can, however, request non-signed crowns.



24h said:


> I think Sullivanjt can see who answered "yes" to the poll. Maybe when registration opens he can PM everyone?


Not sure if I can! there doesn't seem to be a button to identify everyone that voted.

Thanks to everyone that has participated in the discussion so far! I have no doubt that this project's approval was in part shaped by the significant amount of interest everyone has already shown in this thread.


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## StrangeQuark

Thanks @Sullivanjt! I assume you'll post something here with a link to the signup list when it's available? When you say that information will be posted "in the subfolder", I don't know what that means. Where do we find said subfolder?


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## Sullivanjt

danbranan said:


> Thanks @Sullivanjt! I assume you'll post something here with a link to the signup list when it's available? When you say that information will be posted "in the subfolder", I don't know what that means. Where do we find said subfolder?


The subfolder has to be created by the moderators, like the 2019 Forum project folder at the top of the "russian watches" forum topic list.

I will post the list when that folder is created!


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## Dave51

Thanks to Sullivanjt and Miguel for all of their hard work so far!


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## zolotoff

Great news!!! Can't wait to be on the list. And now I think that don't know which color I want actually...


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## BRUICHLADICH

Dave51 said:


> Thanks to Sullivanjt and Miguel for all of their hard work so far!


+1000!


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## NerdThing

Great news!!


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## 0elcid0

Oh, it's great.


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## AK918

That's great news! (Hopefully I haven't been lurking around here for too long to get on the list lol)


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## BRUICHLADICH

Sullivanjt said:


> Not sure if I can! there doesn't seem to be a button to identify everyone that voted.


Oh, don't worry... I tell you...I did vote!


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## Martin_F

Great news! Keep us posted...


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## Kotsov

The


Sullivanjt said:


> Great news, the project has been approved! Chascomm has told me they're working on creating a subfolder for the project now. Once it's up and running, I will post the sign-up roster there.
> 
> I appreciate everyone's desire to join, and I'm not withholding the sign-up roster to be mean; I am trying to make sure all information about the project can be consolidated in one area, and therefore easily accessible.
> 
> All information will be posted in the subfolder from now on. We still have a few details to discuss: the crowns and the caseback. I will message Dmitry about the crowns to determine to what extent they can be re-created, but he has stated we can't do the old wobbly crowns. We can, however, request non-signed crowns.
> 
> Not sure if I can! there doesn't seem to be a button to identify everyone that voted.
> 
> Thanks to everyone that has participated in the discussion so far! I have no doubt that this project's approval was in part shaped by the significant amount of interest everyone has already shown in this thread.


From everyone who has contributed so far I think we can say we love you.


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## Sayan

Thank you very much for the good new Sullivanjt! Looking forward to the link to the new subfolder.


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## mudylych

Cant wait for the list . I hope I wont miss on this one.


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## Knutikov

It is possible to be added to the list? What's the current cost of the watch? 

Sent from my HWI-AL00 using Tapatalk


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## Sullivanjt

Current price is USD $300+, according to Dmitry. We do not have a final price just yet.


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## andrewm7

Really looking forward to this one


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## Sullivanjt

The subfolder is live, go register!

Remember: as we discussed, we will not have limited edition numbers on the caseback. The choices on the registration form are only listed as numbers so that the computer program can differentiate them. If you choose a number from the list of orange watches or green watches, it counts as "one orange watch" or "one green watch," NOT "orange watch #100" or "green watch #30"


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## Kotsov

Done, one of each.

I wonder if the 2020 project will arrive before the 2019 one?


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## kakefe

Sullivanjt said:


> The subfolder is live, go register!
> 
> Remember: as we discussed, we will not have limited edition numbers on the caseback. The choices on the registration form are only listed as numbers so that the computer program can differentiate them. If you choose a number from the list of orange watches or green watches, it counts as "one orange watch" or "one green watch," NOT "orange watch #100" or "green watch #30"


sorry but where is the subfolder ? any link ?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## Sullivanjt

kakefe said:


> sorry but where is the subfolder ? any link ?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


At the top of the Russian forum. It says "2020 forum project"


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## Martin_F

kakefe said:


> sorry but where is the subfolder ? any link ?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk











2020 Forum Project Vostok Compressor







www.watchuseek.com


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## kakefe

deleted


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## Sullivanjt

kakefe said:


> I checked it before posting..and still seen like in the pic .. I'm using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


You may need to use a computer. My tapatalk has not been working recently either.


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## BRUICHLADICH

Done!

Thanks!


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## Moryak

Hi for everybody, if there is an opportunity I want to participate in the project. 
left one free number....orange


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## Fergfour

Moryak said:


> Hi for everybody, if there is an opportunity I want to participate in the project.
> left one free number....orange


The 300 are spoken for I believe. Here's the link to the waitlist in case anyone backs out: 2020 Vostok Compressor Project Registration Thread


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## rokman

Fergfour said:


> The 300 are spoken for I believe. Here's the link to the waitlist in case anyone backs out: 2020 Vostok Compressor Project Registration Thread


In all probability quite a few will back out, so put your name there and most probably you will get one.

Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk


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## Moryak

Fergfour said:


> Here's the link to the waitlist in case anyone backs out: 2020 Vostok Compressor Project Registration Thread


Many thanks.


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## Chascomm

One last time:








2020 Forum Project Vostok Compressor







www.watchuseek.com





Closing this thread now.


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