# What's Considered the Break-in Period for an Automatic Watch?



## Twelve Crows (Mar 29, 2011)

I have a Carrera Caliber 5 (posted pics in another thread) that is picking up 10+ seconds a day. I'm getting a little peeved and have set the watch slow to keep from getting too far out. Some days it gains as much as 20 seconds. 

I've read on the forum that many of your non-chronometer TAGs keep excellent, consistent time in the +-3-6 range. It makes me wonder if my watch has been magnetized or is dirty, even though it was bought a few short weeks ago: watches can sit in cases for years sometimes. Advice was given on one thread to let the watch break-in. How long do you suggest this period to be?

Should I send the watch back to TAG for adjustment? I did buy it from an authorized dealer.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

About 30 days.


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

I would be concerned if the rate was eratic from day to day. If it's +10 on a regular basis, it is not out of spec for a non-chronometer. (My Cal 5 500M is about +7 per day).

If it bounces up to +20 I would definitely take it in. I don't think +20 is caused by magnetism. Usually that results in +minutes per day and a very short power reserve.

I would wind it fully (40 turns or so), then make a daily record of your results for a week. If it is not satisfactory to your requirements, then take it in.

good luck.


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## Twelve Crows (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks. I love the watch, and I wear it everyday; it's just this inconsistency it a little frustrating. I'll give it a full wind and write down my results.


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## hyogen (May 17, 2011)

don't even know how to break in an automatic watch. how do you wind it? so unscrew it...that's the wind position, the next position is the date, the last (furthest out) position is the minute hand? 

wind it clockwise? thanks


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## ken2ty (May 5, 2011)

I'm with hyogen - I don't even know how to break it in. Would appreciate it if the experts chime in. =) Thanks


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## Brisman (Mar 10, 2011)

Rtm


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

hyogen said:


> don't even know how to break in an automatic watch. how do you wind it? so unscrew it...that's the wind position, the next position is the date, the last (furthest out) position is the minute hand?
> 
> wind it clockwise? thanks


Unscrew to the first position and twist back and forth to wind. 60 winds should reach full power reserve (almost 2 days, usually). If the hands or date are not moving, you are in the winding position. If they are moving, the crown is out too far.


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## hyogen (May 17, 2011)

Eeeb said:


> Unscrew to the first position and twist back and forth to wind. 60 winds should reach full power reserve (almost 2 days, usually). If the hands or date are not moving, you are in the winding position. If they are moving, the crown is out too far.


thank you


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## selfwind (Oct 29, 2010)

There really isn't much of a breakin period except for the lubricants to get settled. By a week or two what ever accuracy you are getting is probably it. As some of the folks have said wind it fully, wear it all day and keep records if you want to know the results. Use an atomic clock or a good website like Time Zones - Current Time in every Time Zone of the World for a time standard.

My watch originally was about plus 6-7 seconds per 24. I found if I give the winding a little boost in the a.m. by rotating my wrist when I put it on about 25 times, it now is about plus 4. Keeping it fully wound will make it the most constent and will slow it down slightly if it is fast.


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## Twelve Crows (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks. I wound it completely and matched time with the US Naval Observatory clock. It looks like I'm now only gaining 1 second every four hours, but I'll keep tracking it for one week.


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## kyotousa (Oct 2, 2010)

Twelve Crows said:


> Thanks. I wound it completely and matched time with the US Naval Observatory clock. It looks like I'm now only gaining 1 second every four hours, but I'll keep tracking it for one week.


 time keeping def. varies by the position & temp.
mine usually vary month to month...from -3 ~ +2/day. As I just checked the time, this month is a good month gained 1 sec after 21 days.


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

Eeeb said:


> Unscrew to the first position and twist back and forth to wind.


uh oh...must you twist back before you twist forth? 4500 posts, you think I woulda known that!


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Sean779 said:


> uh oh...must you twist back before you twist forth? 4500 posts, you think I woulda known that!


Well, except on alarm movements, you need only twist in one direction. But which direction that is can vary. So I always advise the back-and-forth because that always works...


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

Eeeb said:


> Well, except on alarm movements, you need only twist in one direction. But which direction that is can vary. So I always advise the back-and-forth because that always works...


you got to be kidding me...how's the water up there these days--the Great Lakes--reports of many fevers?


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Sean779 said:


> you got to be kidding me...how's the water up there these days--the Great Lakes--reports of many fevers?


What answer were you looking for? Always wind clockwise? Yes, that's usual but always is not operative. Besides, the back-and-forth method is preferred by the movements themselves according to the latest polls of movements... Ah, yes, it is hot tonight... LOL


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

Eeeb said:


> What answer were you looking for? Always wind clockwise? Yes, that's usual but always is not operative. Besides, the back-and-forth method is preferred by the movements themselves according to the latest polls of movements... Ah, yes, it is hot tonight... LOL


thank you for giving me an answer when I gave you little clue what I was asking. First, I have never experienced non-clockwise winding, so I couldn't understand why you worded your answer ("wind back and forth") as you did--figured there had to be a reason for your specificity, unless, as I said, Great Lakes and fever.

Second--and this goes beyond playing it safe due to the occasional counter-clockwise winding watch--I must have missed those polls that showed the aggregate wisdom (or educated guessing, which is still better than just guessing) that back and forth winding is the preferred method. Anybody has more info on this, and/or can provide links, I'd appreciate it.


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## watchman19 (Dec 16, 2010)

found this link, I think it holds some validity:

Watch Accuracy & Service Tips - PrestigeTime.com the watch experts


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## watchman19 (Dec 16, 2010)

From link:

*Mechanical Movements*

Mechanical watch movements - whether an automatic wind or a manual wind - are comprised of small gears, miniature screws & paper-thin springs. From a perspective of bringing it all together in a small watch and getting it to work accurately is an amazing feat to begin with.

A mechanical wristwatch, especially the modern ones with a jeweled movement, can last forever with the right care, as well as be brought back to life if in reasonable condition.

*Accuracy of Mechanical Wristwatches - what to expect*

In the world of mechanics, anything assembled of small parts which are capable of maintaining 99% accuracy would be considered a top-tiered piece of machinery. To put things in perspective, if a watch is only 99.9% accurate it would be off by 1 minute and 27 seconds per day - which is unacceptable in the luxury watch world.

Accuracy is dependant on a few variables, such as:

*Position:*
Due to gravity a watch will gain or loose more time if laid to rest in a single position. The balance wheel has been adjusted to compensate for losses and gains in different positions. An adjusted watch should perform overall within the specification when worn throughout the day. If you remove the watch at night you may want to find the optimum position that will compensate for drift during wear. Watches are typically adjusted to between 2 - 8 positions: 
1. Dial Up
2. Crown Down
3. Dial Down
4. Crown Left
5. Crown Up
6. Crown Right
7. Half-way position crown up
8. Half-way position crown down

A watch adjust to 2 positions has been adjusted to the first 2 positions, a watch that has been adjusted to 4 positions has generally been adjusted to the above 4 positions & so on.

*Temperature:*
The environment may have an impact on how accurate the watch operates. Temperature changes expand and contract many of the parts, changing the dimension and shapes - especially the balance wheel and hairspring. In modern watches most materials and designs are able to compensate for the changes and maintain a consistent rate. This is generally not a problem unless the watch is constantly in extreme weather environments and is corrected by a very simple regulation.

The standard acceptable accuracy of mechanical wristwatches is as follows:

*Modern Mechanical non-COSC Certified watch*Worst Case Scenario+/-10 seconds per day99.988% accuracyTypical+/-5 seconds per day99.994% accuracyExcellent+/-3 seconds per day99.996% accuracy

*Modern Mechanical COSC Certified watch*Worst Case Scenario+6/-4 seconds per day99.994% accuracyTypical+/-3 seconds per day99.996% accuracyExcellent+/- 1 seconds per day99.998% accuracy

It is important to understand that a fresh watch off the shelf may need a break-in period of a month or so. This allows the watch to find its beat and distribute the lubricants evenly. If you find the watch not to be as accurate as you would expect after the break-in period, there are generally two courses of action to increase accuracy - both being minor in nature, but require competent watchmakers to perform:

*Regulation* - if the watch runs consistently too fast or too slow - the keyword being "consistent". The solution would be to regulate the beat rate accordingly. This is a very simple and relatively quick procedure achieved by turning a screw. With the appropriate time-measuring machinery a qualified watchmaker can accomplish this in a matter of minutes. This procedure is probably one of the most common tasks for a watchmaker.

*Adjustment* - when a watch is fast or slow or does not have a consistent rate, especially in different positions. The balance wheel needs to be adjusted to compensate for the different positions. Although this too is a simple procedure, it does require a little more time to correct as each position needs to be monitored and adjusted.

*Maintenance and Frequency of Service*

A mechanical wristwatch is comprised of small gears, miniature screws & paper thin springs - as with any mechanical instruments that have constantly moving parts, a mechanical watch requires periodic maintenance.

As a watch ages the lubricants start to break down and the gears shift ever so slightly, and the accuracy of the watch will decline as well. The accuracy may be compensated by performing a couple of regulations over the course of a few years. However, ultimately a complete overhaul will be required. There are a few methods of thoughts to the frequency of service. Some say that a service should be done every 2-3 years as the manufacturer suggests. Others subscribe to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule and will only send it into the manufacturer once the watch stops working - which could be many years. We suggest a middle ground, that the watch go in every 5 years or sooner if you notice something amiss. Anything longer than 5 years will create undue stress on different parts and end up costing more to replace those components. A complete overhaul entails disassembling the movement, inspecting each component, replacing any damaged components, cleaning each part, lubricating, reassembling, adjusting and regulating the movement

The cost for a complete overhaul could start at roughly $250 for a simple watch, going up to $500 for a chronograph and into the thousands for a highly complicated watch.

A typical maintenance requires the watch to be opened, the movement dismantled, and each component cleaned and lubricated. The movement is then reassembled, regulated, the gaskets changed, and finally, tested.

Click here to read a detailed article on water resistance.

*A Few Notes to Accuracy*

*Magnetism*
If a watch suddenly begins running extremely fast (20+ seconds per day to hours fast per day) it is usually an indication that the hairspring coils are magnetized, causing the coils to stick together. This shortens the rotation of the balance wheel and increases the beat rate extremely. Correcting this is one of the simplest tasks for a watch maker. The watch needs not be opened (only in extreme cases), is passed through a demagnetizing machine and is ready to go again. Magnetism can also cause a watch to stop or run slow - however, generally the watch will run fast.

*Tangled Coils*
This could be caused by a small jolt to the movement. Although this is less likely than magnetism it is still a common cause of a watch running extremely fast. The coils are entangled, and this shortens the rotation of the balance wheel and significantly increases the beat rate extremely. The good news is that the fix is fairly simple for a qualified watchmaker to accomplish.

*Overall Poor Operation:*
This is rare on a new watch and will generally be the case of a watch that is 4-5 years old. If the watch runs slow and cannot be corrected by a regulation, does not maintain a power reserve, stops working while on your wrist - it may signify a deeper issue, where the skills of an expert watchmaker are required to pin-point and correct the problem. The most extreme resolution is to have the watch completely overhauled. We generally recommend sending the watch back to the respective company for a job as such.

*Quartz/Battery Operated Watch*

*What is a Quartz watch?*
Quartz timepieces use the quartz crystals to provide a very accurate resonator which gives a constant electronic signal for timekeeping purposes. Quartz crystals are piezoelectric, which means that they generate an electrical charge when mechanical pressure is applied to them. They also vibrate if an electrical charge is applied to them. The frequency of this vibration is a function of the cut and shape of the crystal. Quartz crystals can be cut at a consistent size and shape to vibrate at thousands of times per second, making them extremely stable resonators for keeping very accurate time.

*Accuracy:*
Modern quartz/battery operated watches are generally more consistently accurate than mechanical wristwatches. Quartz watches are typically accurate to +/-1 second per day. Unlike mechanical wristwatches, where accuracy is dependant upon a variety of factors such as gravity, tolerances and lubricants, quartz watches will keep a consistent time to whatever the original accuracy is. However certain environments may cause quartz watches to lose their accuracy such as proximity to high magnetic fields such as MRI equipment, doctor's offices with x-ray equipment, dentist offices etc...

As most quartz watches easily outperform the COSC requirement for mechanical wristwatches, the COSC created a whole separate set of tests and standards for a quartz movement requiring the watch to stay accurate to an amazing 0.02 seconds per day!

As the cost of the COSC test is high, most companies choose not to certify their watches, as this would increase the price of the watch drastically. However, there are a few exceptions such as Breitling quartz watches.

Following is what you can expect in terms of accuracy from quartz watches:

*Modern Quartz (battery) Operated non-COSC Certified watch*Worst Case Scenario+/-2 seconds per day99.997% accuracyTypical+/- 1 seconds per day99.998% accuracyExcellent+/-0.5 seconds per day99.999% accuracy

*Modern Quartz (battery) Operated COSC Certified watch*Worst Case Scenario+/-0.02 seconds per day99.99998% accuracyTypical+/-0.02 seconds per day99.99998% accuracyExcellent+/-0.00 seconds per day100% accuracy

*Other pros of quartz watches:*


Servicing is less expensive than a mechanical wristwatch. As there are only a few gears for the drive train (hand, minutes and seconds) most quartz watches require a less frequent and less entailed servicing. General servicing will consist of a cleaning, lubricating the few gears, replacing the battery, changing the gaskets and water resistance testing.
There is no need to make sure the watch is wound, which means less attention needs to be focused on the watch.
*We recommend:*


Have your watch water tested once a year. Click here to read a detailed article on water resistance.
Send the watch to the respective manufacturer every other battery change for a complete service.
When having the battery changed, make sure you find a watchmaker that has the capability to open, seal and test the watch. Generally, you can find such watchmakers affiliated with or at a local authorized dealer for fine brand name watches (not necessarily your brand, but a brand of equivalent status).


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

watchman19 said:


> found this link, I think it holds some validity:
> 
> Watch Accuracy & Service Tips - PrestigeTime.com the watch experts


pretty good advice, except for this self-serving insertion, which is no big deal--they sell luxury watches and I'm nigglin:

_"To put things in perspective, if a watch is only 99.9% accurate it would be off by 1 minute and 27 seconds per day - which is unacceptable in the luxury watch world._"

off 1 minute 27 seconds per day is unacceptable not only in the luxury watch world, but in the watch world period.

still nothing about back and forth winding.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Sean779 said:


> ...I must have missed those polls that showed the aggregate wisdom (or educated guessing, which is still better than just guessing) that back and forth winding is the preferred method. Anybody has more info on this, and/or can provide links, I'd appreciate it.


My humor sometimes wanders off and this case has clearly escaped the audience (and reality) ... I was referring to a poll asking the movements themselves what they preferred. Who cares what the owners want. It's the movements that count!

As the great cartoon character Foghorn Leghorn says "Uh, that's a joke, Son."


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

Eeeb said:


> As the great cartoon character Foghorn Leghorn says "Uh, that's a joke, Son."


very cleverly disguised ;-).


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## Turnaround (Jun 30, 2008)

5000 miles.


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## Twelve Crows (Mar 29, 2011)

Looks like I'm now running 10" a day fast.


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## underpar (Jan 26, 2009)

Twelve Crows said:


> I have a Carrera Caliber 5 (posted pics in another thread) that is picking up 10+ seconds a day. I'm getting a little peeved and have set the watch slow to keep from getting too far out. Some days it gains as much as 20 seconds.
> 
> I've read on the forum that many of your non-chronometer TAGs keep excellent, consistent time in the +-3-6 range. It makes me wonder if my watch has been magnetized or is dirty, even though it was bought a few short weeks ago: watches can sit in cases for years sometimes. Advice was given on one thread to let the watch break-in. How long do you suggest this period to be?
> 
> Should I send the watch back to TAG for adjustment? I did buy it from an authorized dealer.


Tag will not adjust your watch under warranty as +10 is well within their non-chronometer standards. It is almost within COSC specs so I'm not sure what you are worried about. I don't believe in "break in" periods. I have owned over 60 different automatics and have never had one "break in". With todays lubricants, "break in" periods are just excuses and spin. If your watch is running consistantly at +10 just take it to a decent watchmaker. It shouldn't cost more than 30 minutes to regulate, re-seal and test and should be about $40-50. It's not worth sending back to Tag and waiting 3 months for.


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## timefreak (May 8, 2011)

My carrera calibre 5 with the ETA 2824-2 movement does not have a screw down crown. As I do not have to pull out the crown to wind it, I was told to wind in a cockwise direction. Am I able to turn the crown back and forth to wind with this watch?


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

timefreak said:


> My carrera calibre 5 with the ETA 2824-2 movement does not have a screw down crown. As I do not have to pull out the crown to wind it, I was told to wind in a cockwise direction. Am I able to turn the crown back and forth to wind with this watch?


You can if that's your style...


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## hyogen (May 17, 2011)

so what do you guys do about it if it gains 7 seconds a day? which my new caliber 5 aquaracer 300m seems to be doing. Do you just wait till a couple weeks and reset it? a month? every day? Thanks


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## timefreak (May 8, 2011)

I try to wait until it gets to about 5 minutes ahead or a date change then pull out the crown and wait for the time to get caught up then push back in. I don't know if anyone has a better system.


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

timefreak said:


> I try to wait until it gets to about 5 minutes ahead or a date change then pull out the crown and wait for the time to get caught up then push back in. I don't know if anyone has a better system.


If you are pulling the crown out anyway, why not adjust the hands back rather than waiting 5 minutes?


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## selfwind (Oct 29, 2010)

hyogen said:


> so what do you guys do about it if it gains 7 seconds a day? which my new caliber 5 aquaracer 300m seems to be doing. Do you just wait till a couple weeks and reset it? a month? every day? Thanks


I would set it 1.5 minutes slow at the beginning of a month and by month's end it will be a little over 1.5 minutes fast. Since every date watch has to be reset 7 times a year (5-30 day months and 2 time changes) what is 5 more settings going to hurt.


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## timefreak (May 8, 2011)

Both great points. I guess I don't wind back because the minute hand is set right on. Sometimes when you set the hand and it comes back around it's not always dead on from where you set it. Kind of anal I guess.


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## hyogen (May 17, 2011)

selfwind said:


> I would set it 1.5 minutes slow at the beginning of a month and by month's end it will be a little over 1.5 minutes fast. Since every date watch has to be reset 7 times a year (5-30 day months and 2 time changes) what is 5 more settings going to hurt.


great advice


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## Twelve Crows (Mar 29, 2011)

+10 may be considered "in spec" by TAG, but it bothered me. I broke down and headed south to Birmingham to a certified Rolex watch repairer, since I couldn't find a TAG AD with on-site watch repair services. The guy did his magic and a few minutes later, I my Carrera 5 had gone from +10 to -2 a day--which doesn't bother me.


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## Sodiac (Dec 6, 2008)

Set it. Wind it. Wear it. If it doesn't *break*, you're *in*!


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## HansTom (Mar 8, 2014)

I have been tracking my latest purchase -a Hamilton Jazzmaster with ETA 2834-2 movement- for 4 weeks. It stabilized at about +8s after erratic readings in the first 2 weeks.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Looks like good data. I wish more folks could supply data like this!!


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## HansTom (Mar 8, 2014)

Thanks Eeeb, I have another new watch with a 2834 movement coming. I will collect and post the data for that one for a direct comparison. Curious to see how other movements "break-in".


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

hyogen said:


> so what do you guys do about it if it gains 7 seconds a day? which my new caliber 5 aquaracer 300m seems to be doing. Do you just wait till a couple weeks and reset it? a month? every day? Thanks


7 seconds isn't too bad, the watch should slow down a bit in about a month. I bought an Aquaracer 300m almost two years ago and it was getting about the same accuracy as yours. It has now settled down to getting +2 to +3 seconds a day, which is outstanding.

My watch has the Selita SW200 movement, and I my opinion the Selita movements are superior to the ETA models they emulate. My most accurate Swiss automatics are Selitas, much more accurate then my ETA ones.


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## MJM (Sep 16, 2009)

I know this is an old post, but per TAG when I called them, they said TAGs should run -10 to +20 and that is what they consider normal. Also, there is no such thing as a break in period.


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## merkyworks (Jan 25, 2008)

I picked up a Carrera 1887 recently;

Week 1 = +3 to +4 seconds a day
Week 2 = -2 to -3 seconds a day


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## MJM (Sep 16, 2009)

Tag customer service told me that -10/+20 is what they consider normal and that 1 to 1.5 minute gain per week is within their specs. They also said there is no such thing as a break-in period.


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## RVH (Mar 8, 2013)

My Tag was running 10 seconds fast, I thought it was to fast. So Tag did because they made it slower and yes for free. The only problem is they scratched the watch :-( so I send it back and I wonder what they're going to do about it.


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## omegarider (Apr 14, 2014)

MJM said:


> ...They also said there is no such thing as a break-in period.


MJM, you beat me to it. That's what I thought as well, because the movements should have been tested and ran for days during the manufacturing process.


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## HansTom (Mar 8, 2014)

Data from my latest purchase with ETA 2834-2 movement is non-conclusive. Will see if it levels out over time.


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## KRD (Mar 18, 2014)

HansTom said:


> Data from my latest purchase with ETA 2834-2 movement is non-conclusive. Will see if it levels out over time.
> 
> View attachment 1478361


I bought my CAP2110 a couple of months ago. From day one, it was running about 26 sec/day fast. I let it run down until it stopped, gave it a full wind again and it then ran about 13 sec/day fast. I let it run down again, gave it another full wind, it then ran about 6 sec/day fast. Over the last weekend, I let it run down once more, and gave it another full wind. So far it looks like it's stabilised at around 6 sec/day which I'm certainly happy with.


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## selfwind (Oct 29, 2010)

The most important breakin period is that of the wearer of the watch. To really see what the normal use accuracy is, you have to establish a consistant wearing time per day. Also if you are going to do any manual winding or placing the watch on a winder, that needs to be consistent too. At that point you can make an accurate decision to live with it or have it adjusted.


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## Rachdanon (Jan 30, 2012)

selfwind said:


> The most important breakin period is that of the wearer of the watch. To really see what the normal use accuracy is, you have to establish a consistant wearing time per day. Also if you are going to do any manual winding or placing the watch on a winder, that needs to be consistent too. At that point you can make an accurate decision to live with it or have it adjusted.


Yup, and in which position one lays it down overnight too.


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