# vintage Caribbeans - who made them?



## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

Despite being a vintage Caribbean collector, I've never been able to establish who actually made the Caribbeans in the 1960s and 1970s. The list of watches bearing the Caribbean name is a long one. The list includes Jenny, O&W, Jacques Monnat, Haste, Jacquet Droz, Aquadive, Eisenhardt, Fortis, Uno, Philip Watch, Thermidor, Moviga, Maty, Phigied, Heuer and Surtec to my knowledge (I have many of these). It would make no economic sense for each of those names to make their own watch. Thus, it would appear that all of them were made by 1 factory. The most likely are Jenny or O&W. Trouble is, I've heard from a relaible source that they were made by O&W and from an equally relaible source that they were made by Jenny. :-s Seeing as the current owners of Doxa are Jenny, could Rick or someone else set the record straight on this?

I read in a discount watch book "1001 Wristwatches from 1925 to the present", 2007, Martin Haussermann, ISBN 978-1-40549464-9 (only £6.99 at Bookends and has a great divers section!) that the Caribbean 1000 and the Aquastar Benthos 1000 (a reworked 500?) were the first 1000m divers in 1964. I'd read somewhere else that the Caribbean 1000 was the 1st.

cheers

Dave

***********************************************************
*Reply by DOXA *
***********************************************************
*Hi Dave and thank you for posting those wonderful images. The Caribbean and Jenny Caribbean are trademarks of the Jenny family. The Patent for the first 1000meter water resistant dive watch is held by Mr. Jenny Sr. All brands who carry the Jenny fish logo have outsourced manufacturing their cases to the Jennys as they were the only watch manufacturer to achieve the 1000 meter depth rating*

*DOXA S.A.*


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

Timelord said:


> Despite being a vintage Caribbean collector, I've never been able to establish who actually made the Caribbeans in the 1960s and 1970s. The list of watches bearing the Caribbean name is a long one. The list includes Jenny, O&W, Jacques Monnat, Haste, Jacquet Droz, Aquadive, Eisenhardt, Fortis, Uno, Philip Watch, Thermidor, Moviga, Maty, Phigied, Heuer and Surtec to my knowledge (I have many of these). It would make no economic sense for each of those names to make their own watch. Thus, it would appear that all of them were made by 1 factory. The most likely are Jenny or O&W. Trouble is, I've heard from a relaible source that they were made by O&W and from an equally relaible source that they were made by Jenny. :-s Seeing as the current owners of Doxa are Jenny, could Rick or someone else set the record straight on this?
> 
> I read in a discount watch book "1001 Wristwatches from 1925 to the present", 2007, Martin Haussermann, ISBN 978-1-40549464-9 (only £6.99 at Bookends and has a great divers section!) that the Caribbean 1000 and the Aquastar Benthos 1000 (a reworked 500?) were the first 1000m divers in 1964. I'd read somewhere else that the Caribbean 1000 was the 1st.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for getting back to me :-! Apologies, I wasn't aware that you had responded. That's solved that question. I recall somewhere here on WUS, Doxa/Jenny saying they cannot give a full list of the Caribbeans carrying the name for legal reasons. I can divulge the above list (apologies for leaving out Montresor and Datzward) because I either have the watches, or have pictures of them, or have reliably heard about them.

Anyway, does Jenny/Doxa have any plans to reissue a Caribbean 1000 with monoblock case? Given the success of other reissues from Doxa, Certina etc (and the success of homages such as the PRS divers, Bill Yao's offering and the announced Ploprof homage by Ocean 7), I think that it would be a winner. b-)


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## Synchron (May 3, 2005)

Timelord said:


> Wow, thanks for getting back to me :-! Apologies, I wasn't aware that you had responded. That's solved that question. I recall somewhere here on WUS, Doxa/Jenny saying they cannot give a full list of the Caribbeans carrying the name for legal reasons. I can divulge the above list (apologies for leaving out Montresor and Datzward) because I either have the watches, or have pictures of them, or have reliably heard about them.
> 
> Anyway, does Jenny/Doxa have any plans to reissue a Caribbean 1000 with monoblock case? Given the success of other reissues from Doxa, Certina etc (and the success of homages such as the PRS divers, Bill Yao's offering and the announced Ploprof homage by Ocean 7), I think that it would be a winner. b-)


Hi, no problem at all, I was happy to post my reply. There is no legal reason or whatsover, why we cannot give a full list ofthe Caribbeans. In fact every Watch manufactured from the Sixties till today, carrying the Jenny fish logo is made by The Jenny Family, whatever brand it shows on the dial.

YES, there are plans to reissue the monoblock case

cheers
Rick


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## subkrawler (Oct 26, 2006)

DOXA S.A. said:


> YES, there are plans to reissue the monoblock case
> 
> cheers
> Rick


Rick, will these watches be branded solely as _Jenny,_ or will they be rolled into DOXA?


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## Synchron (May 3, 2005)

Hi Subkrawler, they will be part of the DOXA brand

rick


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## Jason71 (Jan 30, 2007)

Wow, I will be excited to see this one come out. Any idea of a time-frame?


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## Dimitris (Jul 3, 2007)

Yassou Rick,

moniblock case is like Seiko's Marinemaster? 
Sounds great.

Regards
Dimitris


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

DOXA S.A. said:


> Hi, no problem at all, I was happy to post my reply. There is no legal reason or whatsover, why we cannot give a full list ofthe Caribbeans. In fact every Watch manufactured from the Sixties till today, carrying the Jenny fish logo is made by The Jenny Family, whatever brand it shows on the dial.
> 
> YES, there are plans to reissue the monoblock case
> 
> ...


Sorry, I must have been barking up the wrong tree about the legalities.

Some of the current/recent Philp Watch output still carry the Jenny fish logo and/or the Caribbean name.

Any idea which Caribbean case(s) is planned. My guess would be 702, 706 and/or the 708 cases in that order. Could even have the option of the 12 hr, time-elapsed or the divetable bezels b-)


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

DOXA S.A. said:


> Hi Subkrawler, they will be part of the DOXA brand
> 
> rick


Doxa is probably a stronger trademark than Jenny, so it makes sense to issue these watches under the Doxa brand. It also obviates the need to change the name on the fliplock of the beads or rice bracelet, if that's what the Caribbeans will come with (makes good sense to me).:-d


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## cyclopath (Jul 21, 2007)

I saw one a while back made by Montressor, otherwise just like an O&W Caribbean? I haven't seen this name on this thread. Were they also part of the picture?


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## subkrawler (Oct 26, 2006)

DOXA S.A. said:


> Hi Subkrawler, they will be part of the DOXA brand
> 
> rick


That's cool, but it would be super-cool to see one solely bearing the Jenny brand. How great would it be to see some of these make a come-back?https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=3437

I especially like the bent-link bracelets with the large holes. Those are awesome!!:-!:-! And the name _Sea-Lab_, oh man...even better:-!:-!:-!


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

subkrawler said:


> That's cool, but it would be super-cool to see one solely bearing the Jenny brand. How great would it be to see some of these make a come-back?https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=3437
> 
> I especially like the bent-link bracelets with the large holes. Those are awesome!!:-!:-! And the name _Sea-Lab_, oh man...even better:-!:-!:-!


From a historical purist point of view, Jenny would be better.

Those bent-link bracelets with the large holes are great aren't they. I have a OEM one on my Philip Watch Caribbean 1500. The clasp is signed with PW or Philip Watch and the Jenny fish.


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## subkrawler (Oct 26, 2006)

Timelord said:


> Sorry, I must have been barking up the wrong tree about the legalities.
> 
> Some of the current/recent Philp Watch output still carry the Jenny fish logo and/or the Caribbean name.
> 
> Any idea which Caribbean case(s) is planned. My guess would be 702, 706 and/or the 708 cases in that order. Could even have the option of the 12 hr, time-elapsed or the divetable bezels b-)


Dave, can you post some photos of your Caribbeans and maybe show all of us Jenny Caribbean fans what a 702, 706 and 708 case looks like?:thanks


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## Synchron (May 3, 2005)

subkrawler said:


> That's cool, but it would be super-cool to see one solely bearing the Jenny brand. How great would it be to see some of these make a come-back?https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=3437
> 
> I especially like the bent-link bracelets with the large holes. Those are awesome!!:-!:-! And the name _Sea-Lab_, oh man...even better:-!:-!:-!


*Hi Subkrawler, I like the bent steel bracelet links too on a vintage watch but they cannot meet the quality criteria of today's watch. Nowadays, it is also considered an inferior quality characteristic, you usually get with a $100.00 watch. So I do not think this will be an option for DOXA.*

*Cheers*
*rick*


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

cyclopath said:


> I saw one a while back made by Montressor, otherwise just like an O&W Caribbean? I haven't seen this name on this thread. Were they also part of the picture?


I added Montresor and Datzward to the list.

I'd love to see a Caribbean chrono. Of course, the Valjoux 72 and 7736 are too rare and expensive nowadays. However, the tricompax modular movement used on the Doxa T-graph could be used, or even better, the (3,6,9) tricompax Valjoux 7750 variant (7753 or 7754 I think) as seen on the Sinn 903 auto.


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

subkrawler said:


> Dave, can you post some photos of your Caribbeans and maybe show all of us Jenny Caribbean fans what a 702, 706 and 708 case looks like?:thanks


I will post some pics later, but in the meantime, if you look at my other catalogue thread and scroll across to the scan showing the O&W Caribbean 1000s, all 3 models are shown together. The 702 has a round case with splayed lugs, the 706 has convex sides like a Doxa Sub with parallel lugs and straight top and bottom edges, and the 708 has a strange sort of tonneau shape with hooded lugs. In my opinion the 702 is the most classic and the 706 being the most retro. The 708s are rare (I only have 1, an orange Aquadive 1000)


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## Jason71 (Jan 30, 2007)

Timelord said:


> I will post some pics later...................










:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

jclevoy said:


> :-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d


There are better pics than mine, but these are some of my watches:

A Jacques Monnat Caribbean 1000 case ref. 706:


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

O&W Caribbean 1000 case ref. 702:


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

Aquadive Caribbean 1000 case ref. 708 before the case was refinished and hands relumed:


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## Jason71 (Jan 30, 2007)

Timelord said:


> There are better pics than mine, but these are some of my watches:
> 
> A Jacques Monnat Caribbean 1000 case ref. 706:


I REALLY like this one........It is a domed crystal?


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## Jason71 (Jan 30, 2007)

Timelord said:


> Aquadive Caribbean 1000 case ref. 708 before the case was refinished and hands relumed:


And this one is probably my favorite. THANK YOU FOR THE PICS


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

jclevoy said:


> And this one is probably my favorite. THANK YOU FOR THE PICS


Sure about that? The 706 looks good in blue:

Eisenhardt Caribbean 1000 (watchadoo's pics):


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

Or maybe even the later ref. 715 as seen on this Philip Watch Caribbean 1500:


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## Jason71 (Jan 30, 2007)

You have a fine, very obscure collection. I really like it alot. How did you get started collecting Caribbeans?


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

jclevoy said:


> You have a fine, very obscure collection. I really like it alot. How did you get started collecting Caribbeans?


These watches are only the nucleus of a much larger (now) collection of Caribbeans. I was collecting vintage O&W watches in general (EarlyBird, Selectron etc) and happened to get the silver-dialled O&W Caribbean shown above. I was so impressed by the O&W and the history of the Caribbean that I had gleaned from the meagre info. on the internet, I started to collect other Caribbeans, before diversifying into other classic vintage divers such as Certina DS-2, DS-3, Favre Leuba Deep Blue, Aquastar Benthos 500 etc. Now I also collect the new divers as well (there seems to be a new 1000m diver almost every month ). My love of the vintage divers led me to the modern Doxas (less risky), and then to the vintage ones too (with a bit of help from Pete Millar's site and this forum). However, it is vintage Caribbeans that appeal to me most, something about being the very first 1000m diver.


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

jclevoy said:


> I REALLY like this one........It is a domed crystal?


Yes, all Caribbean crystals are hi-domed. They had to be at least 6mm thick to ensure the water resistance. See the pic below of my Eisenhardt ref. 706:


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## subkrawler (Oct 26, 2006)

DOXA S.A. said:


> *Hi Subkrawler, I like the bent steel bracelet links too on a vintage watch but they cannot meet the quality criteria of today's watch. Nowadays, it is also considered an inferior quality characteristic, you usually get with a $100.00 watch. So I do not think this will be an option for DOXA.*
> 
> *Cheers*
> *rick*


Rick,

Man, that's too bad because the bent links, with the big hole bracelets are classic of '70s watch style. Seems like it would be an awesome compliment to a Caribbean 1000 reissue.:-!:-!

Because I'm learning, can you clarify for me why a modern version of a big link bracelet, wouldn't meet today's quality criteria? My vintage, Fortis Marinemaster has a bent link bracelet. Although this one incorporates micro-springbars to connect the links...for a modern interpretation, why couldn't you use screw-pins to make the connection? Something similar to the screw-pins on a modern DOXA bracelet.

Here are a few shots of my Marinemaster with some close-ups of the bracelet. Perhaps the Jennys are different, but the Fortis design looks adaptable for a modern equivalent.




























Now, I'm not an expert or an authority on watch style, but I do know what quality looks like when it comes to watches. With that said, if I saw a modern reissue watch with a bent link, large hole bracelet...I wouldn't think it was inferior quality at all. To me, it would be seen as keeping pure to the original late sixties/seventies design, not a means of taking a cheap short-cut. Just something to think about, when the times comes to re-issue the Caribbean 1000.;-)


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## Synchron (May 3, 2005)

Hi Subkrawler, We might be talking about 2 different things. I did not mean the bracelet with the holes, I was generally speaking about bracelet made of bent sheet metal

Bent sheet metal is the material of which the original SUB bracelet and other braceletswas made of, they tend to loosen and have a lot of play and finally break. That is why DOXA and all other brands upgraded their bracelets to solid stainless steel link type

Rick


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## Jim (Feb 12, 2006)

subkrawler said:


> Dave, can you post some photos of your Caribbeans and maybe show all of us Jenny Caribbean fans what a 702, 706 and 708 case looks like?:thanks


Some 702s

[Big Hello to Linus in Singapore]

Cheers,

Jim


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## subkrawler (Oct 26, 2006)

Jim said:


> Some 702s
> 
> [Big Hello to Linus in Singapore]
> 
> ...


Jim, Those look awesome!! So, was there a blue face offered in the 702 and if so, what color was the bezel?


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## subkrawler (Oct 26, 2006)

The 702 and the 708 cases are awesome!!. I'm sure I'd learn to love the 706 but it may have to grow on me a bit.;-)

Rick, I really think a *Jenny*Caribbean in either a 702 or 708 configuration would be a real sweet seller. Hopefully you guys will give it some serious consideration


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## Jason71 (Jan 30, 2007)

I LOVE how the endlinks are angled.............Thanks for the pics Jim!!


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

subkrawler said:


> Jim, Those look awesome!! So, was there a blue face offered in the 702 and if so, what color was the bezel?


Depending on whether the bezel is the time-elapsed, 12 hr or divetable bezel, a blue-dialled Caribbean 702 would have a blue and white bezel (if the divetable bezel) as shown in my picture of the Eisenhardt 706 above.

Most of the Caribbeans used acrylic insert bezels (there are exceptions, such as my bezel-free Uno Caribbean 400 below and my metallic bezel Philip Watch Caribbean 1500 Hi Swing):










However, the later models such as my Philip Watch 715 and Aquadive 708 have noticeable wider acrylic inserts than the earlier models such as my O&W 702 above.


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

Jim said:


> Some 702s
> 
> [Big Hello to Linus in Singapore]
> 
> ...


Hi Jim

That's a fantastic collection of 702s with divetable bezels and what looks like OEM BOR bracelets. :-!


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## Jim (Feb 12, 2006)

subkrawler said:


> Jim, Those look awesome!! So, was there a blue face offered in the 702 and if so, what color was the bezel?


Here ya go.

Nice..huh ?

Jim ;-)


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## Jim (Feb 12, 2006)

Timelord said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> That's a fantastic collection of 702s with divetable bezels and what looks like OEM BOR bracelets. :-!


Those are the original bracelets. They came unsigned in the original 702s but later ones were stamped with the J Fish !

Jim


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

Jim said:


> Here ya go.
> 
> Nice..huh ?
> 
> Jim ;-)


That's a really nice Jenny. Is it your watch or is it a pic from the internet?


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

Jim said:


> Those are the original bracelets. They came unsigned in the original 702s but later ones were stamped with the J Fish !
> 
> Jim


I didn't know that. Thanks for the information :-!


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## Jerrynorthwest (Dec 1, 2008)

Timelord said:


> I didn't know that. Thanks for the information :-!


Hello from a new collector of vintage watches. I began with some military watches and clocks and have gradually branched out into all types. Last night I acquired one that is new to me. It is branded Solar which I believe is a Canadian retailer. It is a 400 meter Jenny diver's watch. It has both a day and a date register. I have not seen any others with a day register in my limited searches. It is somewhat worn, but working perfectly since last night. One question is the day will alternately appear or dissappear leaving blank white, but how is this done? Case back is marked BREV DEM 5292/68. Is this indicating 1968? It is also numbered 387551 and what I think is the serial number at the bottom of the caseback of 30410XX. I will try to attatch some pics. Thanks


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## Jerrynorthwest (Dec 1, 2008)

Sorry for the bad pics. When I get my other camera back I can post some better ones if that will help. Thanks again.


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## Timelord (Jul 12, 2007)

Jerrynorthwest said:


> Hello from a new collector of vintage watches. I began with some military watches and clocks and have gradually branched out into all types. Last night I acquired one that is new to me. It is branded Solar which I believe is a Canadian retailer. It is a 400 meter Jenny diver's watch. It has both a day and a date register. I have not seen any others with a day register in my limited searches. It is somewhat worn, but working perfectly since last night. One question is the day will alternately appear or dissappear leaving blank white, but how is this done? Case back is marked BREV DEM 5292/68. Is this indicating 1968? It is also numbered 387551 and what I think is the serial number at the bottom of the caseback of 30410XX. I will try to attatch some pics. Thanks


Solar is definitely a new one on me. I've never seen one like that before. Congratulations on your find. :-! I'll have to update the list of names now.

The no. 68 on the back refers to the year of Jenny's patent, not the year of manufacture.


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## Jerrynorthwest (Dec 1, 2008)

Timelord said:


> Solar is definitely a new one on me. I've never seen one like that before. Congratulations on your find. :-! I'll have to update the list of names now.
> 
> The no. 68 on the back refers to the year of Jenny's patent, not the year of manufacture.


Dave or anyone, maybe you can answer a question for me. I am sure it is very simple and I am just missing something. The day register seems to alternate between displaying the day of the week and blank spaces. Now it wants to rotate past the day to blank everytime I advance past midnight. How do I set it to show the day and not just the date?:-s


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## Jerrynorthwest (Dec 1, 2008)

Took my new watch to the jeweler and got a cheap band for it. While I was there I asked for an estimate for cleaning and lubricating and polishing the crystal. I was quoted $125, which I think is really fair. From a collector's standpoint would it be best to leave the hands and markers as is or to have them polished? He is a very competent jeweler, but should working on this movement be left to someone more familiar with it or is it within any competent jeweler's ability? How hard is it to obtain new seals for a watch like this? Is it even possible? I would like to keep it as original as possible. The day will advance, but always skips past as the date changes. Hoping that is the result of something simple and not a failure in the mechanism. I am wearing it and it is keeping good time.


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## Roger Ruegger (Aug 28, 2006)

Timelord said:


> I read in a discount watch book "1001 Wristwatches from 1925 to the present", 2007, Martin Haussermann, ISBN 978-1-40549464-9 (only £6.99 at Bookends and has a great divers section!) that the Caribbean 1000 and the Aquastar Benthos 1000 (a reworked 500?) were the first 1000m divers in 1964. I'd read somewhere else that the Caribbean 1000 was the 1st.


Hi there. Since I have unfortunately a quite good idea from where the mentioned author took the info for the chronology in the book (he even didn't care to at least slightly change some phrases he used, or to publish the sources he used) :-| , let me precise the info:

It looks very, very much like the Caribbean (1964) was the first serially produced watch that officially offered a clearly visible 1000 Meter WR. 
The Benthos 500 (1963, the Benthos 1[000] came 1974) was officially rated to a depth of 500 M (hence the name ;-)), but there's the possibility that this watch was (inofficially) water resistant to a depth of 1000 M as well.

Some further info:

http://www.rruegger.ch/dive_watch_history.htm 
http://www.rruegger.ch/jenny_caribbean.htm
http://www.rruegger.ch/aquastar_benthos.htm

Hope that clarifies the matter a bit.

Regards

Roger


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## T Bone (Feb 18, 2006)

Roger first off, Welcome to the Doxa Forum!

Thanks for sharing your works here, a very good reference (I've saved links to these pages to my watch reference section, think I had them before but lost them in a computer crash :-(). Also, thanks for setting the record straight.

Do you have an English language version of these on line? If not, Babel Fish Translation does a decent job for those of us who are not multi-lingual.

Thanks again! :-!


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