# Why are Tissots less expensive than other Swiss watches?



## Charlie Music Fan (Oct 26, 2013)

Is their quality that far below all of the other respected brands from their country?


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## imagwai (Feb 23, 2013)

Charlie Music Fan said:


> Is their quality that far below all of the other respected brands from their country?


They're probably not going to break any easier if that's what you mean, and will mostly be as reliable time-wise (and cheaper to service). There *are *differences in finishing and quality of materials between a Tissot and the more expensive brands, but in all day-to-day practical terms, they'll both tell you the time reliably. For the mostpart, the price difference buys exclusivity and brand-prestige.


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## JR1 (Nov 23, 2012)

they are omega's version of tudor so rest easy. affordable luxury for the masses but still nicely made, using ETA movements not inhouse movements.


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## WatchUlooking (May 30, 2010)

Why? Well, they are differentiated as a middle class brand in the swatch group just like hamilton and certina. These are roughly in the same price range and use the same movements and components I believe. The quality itself like case, bracelet/strap, etc. I think is on pair with the more expensive brands. By that said, these middle class brands are not "cheap", you still have to pay at least 350-450:- for a basic automatic movement, and like 1000-1500:- for the automatic chronos. As we all know, the price reflect very little of the actual quality when it comes to watches. I have a tissot myself and im pretty satisfied with it, but really the movements is still a ETA 2824-2 which can be found in many other watches. The quality of the case etc. is what should be expected from a 400 dollar watch.


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## Seiko_Licker (Feb 17, 2012)

Having owned a Tissot, as well as watches from several more expensive brands (ranging from slightly more expensive to lots more expensive) I can safely say that it's because Tissot has a poorer level of quality/fit and finish.

That's not to say that Tissots are bad watches, it's just that, quite simply, you get what you pay for. Tissots fit and finish is on par with other watch brands in its price range (Hamilton, etc).

I would not go so far as to say that they are "Omegas version of Tudor". That statement displays a lack of understanding of the structure of the companies making the watches, as well as the respective history behind the brands.


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## WatchUlooking (May 30, 2010)

"Poorer" level of quality and fittment, in what way might that be? I would say there are little differance at all between watches because the manufacturing processes are getting better and better. There are 80 dollar watches that is on pair with tissot regarding quality and fittment, and I know because I have owned several low class brands around that price range. 

It would be intresting to see what klind of differance there is, in pictures of course, because thats the closest we can come.

Also "get what you pay for", with that statement you are totally in the wrong forum section dude. it has been discussed many times before that when it comes to watches the added value you get regarding quality, fittment, finish, etc. has little to do with the actual cost.


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## JR1 (Nov 23, 2012)

seoulseeker said:


> Having owned a Tissot, as well as watches from several more expensive brands (ranging from slightly more expensive to lots more expensive) I can safely say that it's because Tissot has a poorer level of quality/fit and finish.
> 
> That's not to say that Tissots are bad watches, it's just that, quite simply, you get what you pay for. Tissots fit and finish is on par with other watch brands in its price range (Hamilton, etc).
> 
> I would not go so far as to say that they are "Omegas version of Tudor". That statement displays a lack of understanding of the structure of the companies making the watches, as well as the respective history behind the brands.


i was generalizing but i did not mean to imply that tissot is equal to tudor, or even omega being equal to rolex. that is an entirely different subject that i did not wish to imply. tissot is an underrated and respected brand full of quality despite being relatively affordable.

you get what you pay for? so is the value of watches entirely objective and tangible? how much actual value are there for upmarket brands, or are some of it for the brand perception itself, marketting, goodwill, heritage or history itself as you stated? how much went into paying for the perception of the time the cratftsman made the watch, and not for the timepiece itself? is a costly hand assembled watch better than a cheaper watch assembled by robots? japanese brands particularly seikos have fit, finish and movements thst would rival or exceed hand made swiss brands like but are priced well below. does it mean they are of inferior quality because of your "you get what you pay for" theory?


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

Tissots provide a lot of bang for buck. I have watches that cost many more time what my Tissots cost but no way are they many times better than a Tissot and in some cases they have the same movement in them. O.K. so the Tissots may not be as well finished as some watches but do you really want to pay $1,000 more for one that is?


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## Seiko_Licker (Feb 17, 2012)

JR1 said:


> i was generalizing but i did not mean to imply that tissot is equal to tudor, or even omega being equal to rolex. that is an entirely different subject that i did not wish to imply. tissot is an underrated and respected brand full of quality despite being relatively affordable.
> 
> you get what you pay for? so is the value of watches entirely objective and tangible? how much actual value are there for upmarket brands, or are some of it for the brand perception itself, marketting, goodwill, heritage or history itself as you stated? how much went into paying for the perception of the time the cratftsman made the watch, and not for the timepiece itself? is a costly hand assembled watch better than a cheaper watch assembled by robots? japanese brands particularly seikos have fit, finish and movements thst would rival or exceed hand made swiss brands like but are priced well below. does it mean they are of inferior quality because of your "you get what you pay for" theory?


I think it's fairly well understood that watches, like all luxury goods, experience diminishing returns the more you spend. I would not go so far as to say, however, that you don't "get what you pay for". There is definitely a (significant) step up in quality to be found. This fact in itself answers the OPs question as to "why Tissots are less expensive than other swiss watches". They are priced squarely within their quality tier. There can of course be "outliers" that are exceptional (or inversely, exceptionally poor) value for money, but I would not consider Tissot to be one of them

That said, I didn't think that you were comparing Tissot to Tudor in terms of quality. I was pointing out that Tudor was always meant to be a more affordable alternative to Rolex - the brand itself was specifically made for such a purpose. Tissot and Omega on the other hand, share no such relation (other than the fact that both Tissot and Omega are owned and managed by the Swatch group). Granted Tissot and Omega did collaborate to some extent in the past, but it was not a structured hierarchy like you see with Rolex and Tudor. It would be just as fallacious to take any other lower-tier brand under the swatch group, Hamilton for example, and claim that they are to Omega what Tudor is to Rolex.


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## WatchUlooking (May 30, 2010)

The point is, if you are wealthy enough or want to spend a bigger amount of money on a watch, you would probably not buy tissot from the frist beginning. Not because the brand isnt good, but because the brand is in the "middle" and also sold and priced accordingly. 

Other than that, I feel this thread will envolve to similar like the other one in the public section, about infladed watch prices. Not sure if we can come any further here :/.


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## JR1 (Nov 23, 2012)

the law of diminishing returns comes to mind here. other swiss brands may be better than tissot, but is the cost worth the incremental improvement? only the final buyer can answer that. if he forks out the cash, then he seems to think so. to him it is, so everything is fair to him. for me, there are many better swiss brands than tissot. but for me tissot is in a sweet spot with its value for your money proposition. a case can be made for hamilton too, but it is an american brand that got the "swiss made" badge. personally for me, i could care less about where the product is designed and manufactured. 

apple states that they are "designed in california" and "assembled in china" with components made all over the globe. i could care about where as long as they give me an outstanding what (product). having said that, i do not own a tissot yet but have been impressed with their quality for the price. i plan to get a tissot someday, and a hamilton too despite having a couple of watches from the more upscale swiss brands.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

Strictly because of Swatch and Tissot's managers deciding where/how to place Tissot in the marketplace. The carry ETA movements, so they could just as easily be priced higher or lower.


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## pwshadow (Oct 17, 2012)

Tissot is a great value brand that makes watches on par with some more expensive brands such as Tag. However, when you jump up in price category to say an omega or a rolex you do get more. The movements are decorated and the tolerances throughout the watch are tighter. The gap between the end links and the lugs, how well the hands line up with the markers, etc. We keep asking our selves if little things like this are worth the money and my argument is yes. We are not buying mechanical watches because they are better at tellin time. We buy them because of how they do it. Watches are expensive because they are precise works of art and you pay more for the time and attention to detail that goes into making them. The tourbillon is a great example. It is useless from an accuracy standpoint, but once you understand how a watch works, the tourbillon suddenly becomes an amazing and artistic way of telling time.


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## Cmdr.Lee (Mar 1, 2013)

tony20009 said:


> Strictly because of Swatch and Tissot's managers deciding where/how to place Tissot in the marketplace. The carry ETA movements, so they could just as easily be priced higher or lower.


Agreed, It's almost as if they have positioned themselves in the "Niche" segment of Swiss watches. They are not boutique and they are not upscale. I have several and could not be more happier as i understand what the brand is and what to expect. You get a relatively solid product in return for your investment. Also their model range is quite large and encompasses many different styles that both enthusiast and non-enthusisiast can enjoy and afford.


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## johnj (Apr 13, 2006)

Charlie Music Fan said:


> Is their quality that far below all of the other respected brands from their country?


Not at all. Their quality is excellent for the price point. They are made by the same company that makes Omega, Longines, ETA, and others. That kind of quality cache should make you feel great about your purchase.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Charlie Music Fan said:


> Is their quality that far below all of the other respected brands from their country?


You ask two independent questions.

Why are they less expensive? 
Because Swatch Group put them at that price point.​
Is their quality far below other Swiss brands? 
No. It does not seem to be 'far below'.​If you look at failure rates I bet it is near average. 
If you look at fit and finish, you won't see Tissot taking the expensive options in dials, finishes, cases, crowns, et.al.​
But they do have the freedom to be innovative which few others in the Swatch Group have.


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

I have a Tissot PRC200 automatic. Not a bad watch, but as someone else said the fit and finish is not as good as say an Omega, Tag or Longines.

When I changed out my bracelet for a leather strap, I was shocked to find the end links weren't solid, which shows me a not-so-luxury watch after all.

The watch is a workhorse and not bad to look at either.


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## JR1 (Nov 23, 2012)

solid end links aren't necessary hallmarks of luxury watches. my father has a vintage rolex sub and a gmt master II, and they have hollow end links. i know, they suppossed to be tool watches but in reality they are marked as luxury watches already.


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## pwshadow (Oct 17, 2012)

CombatMarine said:


> I have a Tissot PRC200 automatic. Not a bad watch, but as someone else said the fit and finish is not as good as say an Omega, Tag or Longines.
> 
> When I changed out my bracelet for a leather strap, I was shocked to find the end links weren't solid, which shows me a not-so-luxury watch after all.
> 
> The watch is a workhorse and not bad to look at either.


Tissot has plenty of watches that have solid end links. I believe the 2013 prc 200 has solid end links. And you didn't notice it had hollow end links until you took the bracelet off?


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## Shaunie_007 (Feb 5, 2012)

Overall, I'd say that Tissot is what you pay for. A middle of the spectrum Swatch brand, but they do come out with some great valued watches that carry COSC spec movements (which means they aren't your run of the mil ETA movement). These watches will cost a bit more ~$1200 for non-chrono and ~$2,000 for a chronograph, but if you compare these prices with TAG or Omega offerings, then you will ultimately find them to be of great value.

My example is the 150 year anniversary watch, which comes in both a chronograph and standard movement, both COSC certified (I have the middle one on the way):


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## alx007 (Jan 28, 2013)

I have had several Tissots. My current collection includes a Heritage Visodate and a Le Locle with Power Reserve. The only cheap looking/feeling thing I could point out about these watches are the leather straps. Other than that, they are very solid performers with nice finish, and yes, usually cost a lot less than watches with the same movement and *similar*, or maybe a little higher quality finish.

I really think you can't go wrong with Tissot. From all the watches I have, they probably are my favorite every day wearers, for their looks, quality, and reliability. Also, the cost of ownership doesn't hurt!


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## Beefalope (Sep 23, 2013)

tony20009 said:


> Strictly because of Swatch and Tissot's managers deciding where/how to place Tissot in the marketplace. The carry ETA movements, so they could just as easily be priced higher or lower.


I completely agree.

When it comes to watches, I don't necessarily believe in the notion that "you get what you pay for." For example, if I bought a new Rolex Submariner for retail, I'd spend roughly eight grand. Is that watch worth that much? Really? The individual components in there aren't necessarily that expensive. We're not talking about a watch that's made out of platinum here. Is the watch particularly rare? Nope. Rolex makes at least 700,000 watches per year. Is the watch especially innovative at this point? Please.

Just the same, if I bought a new Tissot Veloci-T Automatic Chronograph -- which is a very sharp-looking watch that I find more interesting-looking than any standard black Submariner -- then does that mean I'm getting a pile of garbage? Absolutely not. I'm getting a reasonably priced watch that's going to last me a very, very long time and accomplish its purpose just as well as a watch that costs 10 or 20 times as much.

Ultimately, the reason Tissot watches are less expensive is because they say "Tissot" on the dial.


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## balzebub (May 30, 2010)

Tissot good value for the cash spent, lower priced due to the market positioning of the brand is all. Much of what we pay for a watch is for the "branding"


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## Camguy (Nov 23, 2012)

I'm extremely impressed with this PRC 200, especially the bracelet. Very solid, well-finished (yes, for what it is), the crown screws in smoothly, the hands line up (rare for a quartz in my experience), the hands and indices are cleanly done, sapphire...it's a good-looking watch at a decent price.
One thing I've learned in my time on these fora is watches are analogous to bikes. You can get a really good bike (watch) for $500, and then you pay about $100 per pound lighter (detail, movement, etc.) from there.


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## ORANGEm0ney (Sep 28, 2011)

Tissot makes good entry-level Swiss watches, but their quality is definitely not on par with Omega or Longines. The construction, detail and overall feel is not there.


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## Sergi0 (Aug 8, 2012)

Only difference: Tissot watch - FIT & FINISH & Brand recognition

I think prices reflect the brand recognition (as in a luxury brand) and also the fit and finish in comparison to the other great brands that are available out there. Tissot watches are okay, but for their prices you get better value else where (Seiko, Citizen). They are considered middle class watches and you can find them anywhere in North America so you wouldnt call them exclusive by any means so I guess their prices reflect that.

As far as movement goes, they are pretty much the same as other watches out there. But the look of the watch is really reflective of the money that you pay for. I think if you compare Tissot with other step down companies like Tudor you get less quality from Tissot. 

I dont know, personally if I had to ask myself this question I would just take a hard look at the watches that Tissot offers and you can clearly see the difference between them and the other brands out there. But if you like Tissot thats a different story and if you can only afford a Tissot, I guess thats what you can afford for now.


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## WatchUlooking (May 30, 2010)

I would say that Tissot offer the best value for money speaking of automatic swiss watches since they all use the ETA movements. Quartz is another thing though, then you get more value from citizen, seiko and casio. Also certina has some decent priced automatics with the eta 2824-2. I guess hamilton and stenhart also offer watches with the eta 2824-2 for the same price range. Really speaking of the 400 dollar range its all about what shop selling these middle class entity watches where the prices can differ a bit. If we look at the level above, which is watches with the cosc certification or the ETA 2892 or other automatic movements with day/date then the prices will increase for these brands. Even chronos with valjoux movements will probably cost 1200 dollars minimum.

There are also other swiss brands if im not wrong, with swiss auto movements that are cheaper than those brands above, possibly with sellita or any other swiss movement. Its all about what you want to pay for the value and the service cost, where basic movements like the ETA 28xx series or equivalent movements _should _be cheaper and more easy to work on. To me, paying 1200-1500 dollars for a swiss chrono is _doable_, how ever the service cost isnt because thats really too much. When it becomes too expensive to own a everyday item it kinda turns me off, and thats a problem with mechanical watches, where some people underestimate the cost of owning such a piece.


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## Seiko_Licker (Feb 17, 2012)

WatchUlooking said:


> I would say that Tissot offer the best value for money speaking of automatic swiss watches since they all use the ETA movements. Quartz is another thing though, then you get more value from citizen, seiko and casio. Also certina has some decent priced automatics with the eta 2824-2. I guess hamilton and stenhart also offer watches with the eta 2824-2 for the same price range. Really speaking of the 400 dollar range its all about what shop selling these middle class entity watches where the prices can differ a bit. If we look at the level above, which is watches with the cosc certification or the ETA 2892 or other automatic movements with day/date then the prices will increase for these brands. Even chronos with valjoux movements will probably cost 1200 dollars minimum.
> 
> There are also other swiss brands if im not wrong, with swiss auto movements that are cheaper than those brands above, possibly with sellita or any other swiss movement. Its all about what you want to pay for the value and the service cost, where basic movements like the ETA 28xx series or equivalent movements _should _be cheaper and more easy to work on. To me, paying 1200-1500 dollars for a swiss chrono is _doable_, how ever the service cost isnt because thats really too much. When it becomes too expensive to own a everyday item it kinda turns me off, and thats a problem with mechanical watches, where some people underestimate the cost of owning such a piece.


Except Tissots chronographs don't even use Valjoux 7750 - they use a cheaper ETA called the C01.221 (in the Seastar chrono at least) that, from my understanding, has a bunch of plastic components. Not in any way the best value among swiss automatics.


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## WatchUlooking (May 30, 2010)

seoulseeker said:


> Except Tissots chronographs don't even use Valjoux 7750 - they use a cheaper ETA called the C01.221 (in the Seastar chrono at least) that, from my understanding, has a bunch of plastic components. Not in any way the best value among swiss automatics.


Funny, since there are couple of tissot chronos all in the 1200-1500 dollar range having the 7750/valjoux movement. Look on their website.

TISSOT LE LOCLE AUTOMATIC - T41.5.317.51 - Tissot Swiss Watches

TISSOT BRIDGEPORT AUTOMATIC - T71.0.427.33 - Tissot Swiss Watches

Tissot Uhr-Herren-TISSOT COUTURIER Automatic Chronograph Valjoux-T035.614.16.051.01-Automatikwerk-Zifferblatt Schwarz-Armband Leder Schwarz


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## Seiko_Licker (Feb 17, 2012)

WatchUlooking said:


> Funny, since there are couple of tissot chronos all in the 1200-1500 dollar range having the 7750/valjoux movement. Look on their website.
> 
> TISSOT LE LOCLE AUTOMATIC - T41.5.317.51 - Tissot Swiss Watches
> 
> ...


Yeah do you not read or something? I said "in the seastar chrono at least"


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## Cmdr.Lee (Mar 1, 2013)

seoulseeker said:


> Except Tissots chronographs don't even use Valjoux 7750 - they use a cheaper ETA called the C01.221 (in the Seastar chrono at least) that, from my understanding, has a bunch of plastic components. Not in any way the best value among swiss automatics.


Not exactly accurate seoulseeker. They do offer the 7750 in the SeaStar 1000 chrono, Your just going to have to pay for it. With the standard SS1K you get what you pay for a nice little "desk diver" that you can take a dip in and go to meetings with. That is where they positioned it and priced it accordingly.

If you will be doing some serious reef or wreck diving a couple of time a year or just have to have a 7750 then just get this:

Tissot Seastar 1000 Men's LTD Automatic Chronograph Black Sport Watch


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## Seiko_Licker (Feb 17, 2012)

Cmdr.Lee said:


> Not exactly accurate seoulseeker. They do offer the 7750 in the SeaStar 1000 chrono, Your just going to have to pay for it. With the standard SS1K you get what you pay for a nice little "desk diver" that you can take a dip in and go to meetings with. That is where they positioned it and priced it accordingly.
> 
> If you will be doing some serious reef or wreck diving a couple of time a year or just have to have a 7750 then just get this:
> 
> Tissot Seastar 1000 Men's LTD Automatic Chronograph Black Sport Watch


Yep, and at that price point ($2250) for a 7750, Tissot is no longer good value for money, and no longer on par for fit and finish in the price range.


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## WatchUlooking (May 30, 2010)

_"Except Tissots chronographs don't even use Valjoux 7750"

_They use in some chronos and they are good value for money since they cost 1000 euros roughly. Meanwhile certina, hamilton and stenhard do also provide valjoux chronos in roughly the same price. We talk about all chronos, not only diving watches. I believe you made a misstake and now want to act smart by saying "in diving watches".


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## Cmdr.Lee (Mar 1, 2013)

seoulseeker said:


> Yep, and at that price point ($2250) for a 7750, Tissot is no longer good value for money, and no longer on par for fit and finish in the price range.


While traveling, I saw one sub $2k at a small establishment. I do not recall the exact price to be honest. At the list price it may not be that great a value, But a couple of hundred less and it may scratch some peoples itch.


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## WatchUlooking (May 30, 2010)

So you people telling me that valjoux chronos for 1000-1200 euros isnt worth the money?


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## Cmdr.Lee (Mar 1, 2013)

WatchUlooking said:


> So you people telling me that valjoux chronos for 1000-1200 euros isnt worth the money?


I never typed that...


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## Seiko_Licker (Feb 17, 2012)

WatchUlooking said:


> _"Except Tissots chronographs don't even use Valjoux 7750"
> 
> _They use in some chronos and they are good value for money since they cost 1000 euros roughly. Meanwhile certina, hamilton and stenhard do also provide valjoux chronos in roughly the same price. We talk about all chronos, not only diving watches.* I believe you made a misstake and now want to act smart by saying "in diving watches"*.


Sorry, no. I said it in my initial post, you just didn't read it.


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## regnaD kciN (Feb 17, 2010)

ORANGEm0ney said:


> Tissot makes good entry-level Swiss watches, but their quality is definitely not on par with Omega or Longines. The construction, detail and overall feel is not there.


_Entry-level_??? You must be joking. An entry-level Swiss watch is something like a Wegner. Tissots are a lot higher on the chain than that.


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

pwshadow said:


> Tissot has plenty of watches that have solid end links. I believe the 2013 prc 200 has solid end links. And you didn't notice it had hollow end links until you took the bracelet off?


Nope never noticed. I know everyone wants their brand of watch to get some respect, I should know, I'm a Tag owner, no respect ever given there. But the fact is, the Tissot, while being a fine watch, does not have the same quality fit and finish as an Omega, Longines, Tag, or even a Citizen Grand Classic Auto.

Now talking best bang for your buck automatic with an ETA movement, look no further then a Sinn, all their movements are ETA and Selita "Top Grade". I did a recent side by side comparison of this piece next to a Rolex Explorer I 39mm. While not as polished and shining as the Rolex, the fit, finish and quality was about the same. I was really lusting after the Rolex, but the side by side ended that.

Of the 25 watches I own, Tags, a vintage Omega, a 1995 Rolex Sub, Tissot, Citizens, Accutrons, the one I absolutely love the best is my Sinn 556i, it has all but stopped my quest for the "Grail" in it's tracks.


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## WatchUlooking (May 30, 2010)

Top grade, means little since regular movements can be made really accurate. Tissot and certina, as well as hamilton and steinhart provide excelent bang for the buck talking about regular date and or day/date automatics. Here in sweden the cheapest tissot/certina auto cost about 3300 SEK, convert it so USD. Either way thats a really good price. If you want sellite movement then you can get swiss military hanowa, they are a little bit cheaper I guess.


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

WatchUlooking said:


> Top grade, means little since regular movements can be made really accurate. Tissot and certina, as well as hamilton and steinhart provide excelent bang for the buck talking about regular date and or day/date automatics. Here in sweden the cheapest tissot/certina auto cost about 3300 SEK, convert it so USD. Either way thats a really good price. If you want sellite movement then you can get swiss military hanowa, they are a little bit cheaper I guess.


Any watch can be made to be accurate, but are they? A Top Grad movement has improved and better parts then regular of even elbore grade. Mechanically the only thing that separates a Top Grade movement from a Chronometer, is the certification.


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## igorRIJEKA (Oct 6, 2008)

They outsource watch components?
Movements by ETA,cases made in China etc...

Don't get me wrong,I love Tissot..my first "real" watch was LeLocle :-! and I still have it.Beside LeLocle,I have Porto Limited Edition chronometer :think: (great watch,COSC certified,nice movement,PLASTIC holder around the movement)....


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

igorRIJEKA said:


> They outsource watch components?
> Movements by ETA,cases made in China etc...
> 
> Don't get me wrong,I love Tissot..my first "real" watch was LeLocle :-! and I still have it.Beside LeLocle,I have Porto Limited Edition chronometer :think: (great watch,COSC certified,nice movement,PLASTIC holder around the movement)....


Plastic is better than metal in may applications. Movement holders are one such part. Metal does not attenuate shocks as well as plastic.


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## igorRIJEKA (Oct 6, 2008)

That kind of watch does not deserve plastic  it's too vintage and too good for that.


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## Reaper85 (Apr 6, 2013)

Tissot is great, but outside the Heritage collection, they don't offer watches that stand out to me.
So I would put design in first place as to why they are less expensive.


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## WatchUlooking (May 30, 2010)

Tissot arnt really that existing, but they do provide some decently good priced automatics in different ranges, which are far more cheaper than others with equivalent movements. By that said, certina and hamilton provide more or less the same group of watches for the same price. And that is true, since they are all a part of the swatch group, but aimed at different markets. In countries where all three brands are avalable, then it doesnt really matter what you choose, you get the same stuff quality wise.


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