# Has the SBGN003/005 been discontinued?



## YuG (Feb 13, 2021)

Got an itch last year wanting to pick up one of these, but read a forum post saying they were discontinued, so forgot about it for awhile. I just checked with an AD recently and they said they weren't and had one (SBGN003) in stock. Are they mistaken and just getting rid of old stock? Just wondering if this is something I should move on quickly. FWIW I'm in Canada and while I have no issues picking one up secondhand, we still get hit with taxes and extra fees, and it looks like most of the availability of used copies is from Japan.


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## MX793 (Dec 7, 2017)

Not that I've heard. That model only came out a couple years ago.


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## dnslater (Feb 26, 2009)

Why would people on this forum have better info than your AD?


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## sdiver68 (Aug 6, 2010)

dnslater said:


> Why would people on this forum have better info than your AD?


Because 95% of the time we do.


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## brash47 (Jul 14, 2018)

Where did you read that it was discontinued? I've never seen that before. This is a bread and butter money maker watch for them.


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## YuG (Feb 13, 2021)

brash47 said:


> Where did you read that it was discontinued? I've never seen that before. This is a bread and butter money maker watch for them.


It was on another forum by someone that tried to buy one last year, and that's what they were told by their AD. I think it was coinciding around the time when GS released the newer 9F GMTs. Just did a little bit more research and maybe thinking that one AD was misinformed.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

YuG said:


> Got an itch last year wanting to pick up one of these, but _read a forum post_ saying they were discontinued, so _forgot about it for awhile_.


I can't fathom why you would do that. Why not find out for yourself?


dnslater said:


> Why would people on this forum have better info than your AD?


They're not trying to sell him a watch .


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## cordi7 (Jan 27, 2019)

They are on Grand Seiko webpage, I can't imagine having a model there when it's not produced anymore


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

There’s oodles of them for sale in UK ADs including the Seiko Boutique.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Gorgeous watch!
Check the GS web site to see if it is still available (it is).
Someone just got one for a 20% discount - dang!








No Discounts on GS?


As a long-time collector, and out of principle, if a brand or AD isn't willing to discount, I'll simply move on to a different watch or brand. There are a lot of pieces I like, and I'm usually able to buy at a reasonable discount from somewhere reputable. My goal has always been to have a...




www.watchuseek.com


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

cordi7 said:


> They are on Grand Seiko webpage, I can't imagine having a model there when it's not produced anymore
> 
> View attachment 16361862



Well Grand Seiko USA keeps the discontinued ones on the website

The SBGX259 is discontinued. The GS rep at the last meet up at the AD in Oct 2021 told me that when he brought out the last one they had in stock. I missed buying it 2 days later and they sold out. i asked my AD to inquire with GS USA about getting one and he got back to me and told me it was discontinued with none in the USA.

They also have the SBGN009 still listed. This was a 2019 limited edition that my AD also confirmed that is no longer in stock or being made.


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

YuG said:


> Got an itch last year wanting to pick up one of these, but read a forum post saying they were discontinued, so forgot about it for awhile. I just checked with an AD recently and they said they weren't and had one (SBGN003) in stock. Are they mistaken and just getting rid of old stock? Just wondering if this is something I should move on quickly. FWIW I'm in Canada and while I have no issues picking one up secondhand, we still get hit with taxes and extra fees, and it looks like most of the availability of used copies is from Japan.


The SBGN003 and SBGN005 are big sellers and widely loved. I am sure it is one of the most popular of the 9F offerings so I doubt they will be killed off any time soon. As for old stock, I know there were some sales to be had on some of the 9F models that were being replaced with updated models with the new independent hour hand but the 003/005 have that already so there is no old stock. This forum poster might have been blowing smoke up folks rear or mistaken. Perhaps they were thinking about the SBGN001 which was a limited edition and is long gone.


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## cordi7 (Jan 27, 2019)

journeyforce said:


> They also have the SBGN009 still listed. This was a 2019 limited edition that my AD also confirmed that is no longer in stock or being made.


For LE it’s clear to me that it can happen as it’s a limited number of pieces that are being made. As per SBGN 003 / 005 I spoke with my AD and he heard nothing about those models being discontinued, they are also available through GS Online Boutique in EU:


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## brash47 (Jul 14, 2018)

There are some AD that still have stock of the 009. Just got to find them. 

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## YuG (Feb 13, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> I can't fathom why you would do that. Why not find out for yourself?


Well let's just say I had multiple itches that I had to scratch, but 2022 is a new year. 



chas58 said:


> Gorgeous watch!
> Check the GS web site to see if it is still available (it is).
> Someone just got one for a 20% discount - dang!
> 
> ...


Canada's website is weird, both these models disappeared from the site a long time ago. But it seems like the overwhelming consensus is that they are still available, at least in most parts of the world and likely still in Canada. Also I read that thread and damn, time for me to start figuring out which of the handful Canadian ADs they went to by process of elimination.


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## warsh (May 22, 2017)

With all this talk about whether or not it’s discontinued or available, let me just add it is an absolutely fantastic watch. It’s basically the perfect travel watch, Goldilocks dimensions (thinner than most GS) highly accurate and bullet proof. I won’t leave my home time zone without it 











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## Brent L. Miller (Nov 6, 2020)

We have received both in stock again recently and to the best of my knowledge they are not discontinued. That's not to say it could be announced next week, but at this time I haven't heard anything otherwise.


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## ronenash (Feb 27, 2020)

warsh said:


> With all this talk about whether or not it’s discontinued or available, let me just add it is an absolutely fantastic watch. It’s basically the perfect travel watch, Goldilocks dimensions (thinner than most GS) highly accurate and bullet proof. I won’t leave my home time zone without it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks fantastic. Definitely on my list.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

warsh said:


> With all this talk about whether or not it’s discontinued or available


These rumours are persisting, aren't they!

Even though there is no evidence at all to suggest discontinuation, a rumour costs nowt
...


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## dnslater (Feb 26, 2009)

brash47 said:


> Where did you read that it was discontinued? I've never seen that before. This is a bread and butter money maker watch for them.


Forums love perpetuating rumors like this. There were reports here of the SKX007 being discontinued 10 years before it actually was. SBGN003 is a great seller according to AD’s that I have talked to and they can’t keep them in stock.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

dnslater said:


> Forums love perpetuating rumors like this. There were reports here of the SKX007 being discontinued 10 years before it actually was. SBGN003 is a great seller according to AD’s that I have talked to and they can’t keep them in stock.


So - the SBGN00x is indeed soon disconnected as the stock is low? Look what happened to the SKX013.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

dnslater said:


> Forums love perpetuating rumors like this. There were reports here of the SKX007 being discontinued 10 years before it actually was. SBGN003 is a great seller according to AD’s that I have talked to and they can’t keep them in stock.


So the SBGN003 and SBGN005 are being discontinued then? That's a shame, they're so popular. Prices to rise? That's the usual reason people talk about popular watches like the SBGN003 and SBGN005 being discontinued. 

(Just making sure the planet's internet bots pick all that up, as dimly context-ignorant as they all are!)


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

One-Seventy said:


> So the SBGN003 and SBGN005 are being discontinued? That's a shame.


Yes it is.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)




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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

I'll just add there are two of them in the display at my AD (one black one blue dial)...


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## dnslater (Feb 26, 2009)

chas58 said:


> I'll just add there are two of them in the display at my AD (one black one blue dial)...


…because they aren’t discontinued.


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## duckmcf (Jan 29, 2008)

I’d be ok if they were discontinued if they were immediately replaced by identical watches with rotating bezels. Hell, I’d still be ok if they bumped the price up by $1k while they were at it…


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

dnslater said:


> …because they aren’t discontinued.


They could be discontinued! It could be new old stock! Anything you like! After all, this is the age of _your _truth; _own _your truth.

I was told by my shrink/fund manager/clairvoyant/internet feed (take your pick) that the Tudor North Flag was discontinued back in 2019, and not to take any notice of the facts that it was still active on the website with globally maintained pricing; it was still available in the shops; retailers were still marketing them; and Tudor had never actually made any kind of announcement to that end. The fact that they were all long on North Flag stock, and possibly trying to shill/pump the price, is neither here nor there.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

> I’d be ok if they were discontinued if they were immediately replaced by identical watches with rotating bezels. Hell, I’d still be ok if they bumped the price up by $1k while they were at it…


'scuse my ignorance, but why would you need a rotating bezel on a GMT? 
I understand the theory, but I'm thinking 99% of GMT owners don't know how to use it and closer to 100% don't ever use it. Sure, if I'm a pilot and constantly changing time zones it would be useful, but...

Besides, the world is full of rotating bezel GMTs, part of the charm of this is that it has a large face with a thin fixed SS bezel.


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## duckmcf (Jan 29, 2008)

chas58 said:


> 'scuse my ignorance, but why would you need a rotating bezel on a GMT?
> I understand the theory, but I'm thinking 99% of GMT owners don't know how to use it and closer to 100% don't ever use it. Sure, if I'm a pilot and constantly changing time zones it would be useful, but...
> 
> Besides, the world is full of rotating bezel GMTs, part of the charm of this is that it has a large face with a thin fixed SS bezel.


It’s a good question. I guess it all comes down to your individual set of use cases. If all you need is a stylish watch for day to day use as well as an awesome travel watch, then yes, you don’t need a rotating bezel. You’d simply set the 24hr hand for your home time zone and enjoy the quick set local hour hand when you travel.

Myself, I live in Australia and my job has me working with people all over the world. The way I use my GMT-II is to set the 24hr hand to UTC and then roll the bezel left for the European, Asian and pacific counties and to the right for the Americas. When I travel I set the 24hr bezel to my local time zone (+10 or +11 depending on daylight savings) and quick set the hour hand to my local time.

For me, a rotating bezel unlocks the true power of a GMT movement, especially if that movement is HAQ. If, for whatever reason, you want to change the 24hr time zone you have to hack the movement. In one of the other threads Paulie8777 reported that his SBGN005 is tracking at +0.0 spd after 610 days and with that sort of accuracy I’d be reluctant to hack it, ever.

Anyway, as I said, it’s all about your personal use cases. I’ve had my GMT-II for nearly 20 years and while I want to retire it (because Rolex baggage) I won’t until (more like if) GS makes a GMT watch with sensible dimensions and a rotating bezel.

Edit: …and while I’m at it, if you live in an area where there’s daylight savings, and you want the 24hr hand set to your home time zone, then you’ll be hacking your HAQ watch at least twice a year. Rotating bezels for the win…

Cheers,
Noel


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## vmgotit (Apr 27, 2017)

Right now in my small collection, I have been wearing my 003 more than my other watches. Great daily Watch. Vance.


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## JOHN J. (Nov 19, 2020)

Loevhagen said:


> View attachment 16368083


That’s just an unqualified beauty!


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

duckmcf said:


> It’s a good question. I guess it all comes down to your individual set of use cases. If all you need is a stylish watch for day to day use as well as an awesome travel watch, then yes, you don’t need a rotating bezel. You’d simply set the 24hr hand for your home time zone and enjoy the quick set local hour hand when you travel.
> 
> Myself, I live in Australia and my job has me working with people all over the world. The way I use my GMT-II is to set the 24hr hand to UTC and then roll the bezel left for the European, Asian and pacific counties and to the right for the Americas. When I travel I set the 24hr bezel to my local time zone (+10 or +11 depending on daylight savings) and quick set the hour hand to my local time.
> 
> ...


Good explanation. I've lived in Australia and worked around the world (and vice versa). A rotating bezel gives you the ability to track 3 timezones, so yep, if you need 3, that is the way to go.

you are right about the great size of the watch. Its a pity GS doesn't make more compact sports watches (GMT or Dive). Most of the ones I tried on are huge.


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## Xaltotun (Apr 19, 2007)

One of my favorite!


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## duckmcf (Jan 29, 2008)

chas58 said:


> …A rotating bezel gives you the ability to track 3 timezones, so yep, if you need 3, that is the way to go…


One more clarification. It’s not so much that a rotating bezel gives you the ability to track 3 time zones, the real benefit is that it allows you to track any of the main 24 time zones, as well as your local time zone, at the twist of the bezel.

This is possibly the reason that the Rolex GMT-II changes hands for around 1.5x the price of a Rolex Explorer II. Although, who really knows what goes through the minds of Rolex buyers when it comes to pricing.  It‘s more likely as simple as they just want to be like the cool kids on Insta…

Cheers,
Noel


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## DSZ44 (Feb 7, 2021)

I actually picked one up from a GS boutique in November and there were 3 left in the US. They did not know or here of additional allocation, so they were assuming they be phasing it out. No official word though. Crown and Cal oddly has them at or above retail. Anyones guess. 


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

DSZ44 said:


> I actually picked one up from a GS boutique in November and there were 3 left in the US. They did not know or here of additional allocation, so they were assuming they be phasing it out. No official word though. Crown and Cal oddly has them at or above retail. Anyones guess.


Crown and Caliber is a secondary market seller that sells at whatever it wants, and its typical customer is very wealthy and just buys what they read about without too much thought. I would sell _anything _at above retail price if I could; with a market this insensitive to price, who wouldn't?

Availabiliy it still "everywhere" here. Anyway, nice to see this thread bubbling along, telling the bots and the scrapers that the SBGN003 and SBGN005 are discontinued!


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## Brent L. Miller (Nov 6, 2020)

Brent L. Miller said:


> We have received both in stock again recently and to the best of my knowledge they are not discontinued. That's not to say it could be announced next week, but at this time I haven't heard anything otherwise.


Replying to my comment from about a month ago with an update as I have been told both will be "phased out" by the end of the year however plenty of stock remains for now.


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## YuG (Feb 13, 2021)

Brent L. Miller said:


> Replying to my comment from about a month ago with an update as I have been told both will be "phased out" by the end of the year however plenty of stock remains for now.


That's unfortunate if true, but the newer quartz models seem to have their prices hiked up quite a bit so I'm not terribly surprised. Glad I picked one up sooner rather than later then.


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## MX793 (Dec 7, 2017)

Well, that's unfortunate. We can probably count on the replacement, if they come out with one, to be larger and at least $1000 more money. GS has been ferociously killing off their 36-39mm offerings.


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## JOHN J. (Nov 19, 2020)

MX793 said:


> Well, that's unfortunate. We can probably count on the replacement, if they come out with one, to be larger and at least $1000 more money. GS has been ferociously killing off their 36-39mm offerings.


That’s bad news if true. May have to settle on a pre-owned.


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## Earthbound2 (Nov 30, 2021)

Interesting you read they are being discontinued. I read the same thing and proceeded to call around. I’m also looking at that model. I contacted 2 places and they are in stock. Perhaps due to that $4500 model somewhat recently being released, some speculated the discontinuation. It’s a beauty.


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## MX793 (Dec 7, 2017)

Earthbound2 said:


> Interesting you read they are being discontinued. I read the same thing and proceeded to call around. I’m also looking at that model. I contacted 2 places and they are in stock. Perhaps due to that $4500 model somewhat recently being released, some speculated the discontinuation. It’s a beauty.


See post from Brent confirming this is the final year.



Brent L. Miller said:


> Replying to my comment from about a month ago with an update as I have been told both will be "phased out" by the end of the year however plenty of stock remains for now.


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## Earthbound2 (Nov 30, 2021)

Thanks for that. Well I’m going shopping Monday so I’m glad I discovered the model now when I can still try it on. Looking forward to seeing the brand for the first time.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Curious as to if this is true, as they are the biggest bargain in the lux watch world. nothing like it for under 10K outside of GS. Can pick them up used all day long for under 2.5k. Oddly, they haven't raised the prices on this like everything else seems to be getting hit (maybe that is an indication that its going away?)


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## JOHN J. (Nov 19, 2020)

chas58 said:


> Curious as to if this is true, as they are the biggest bargain in the lux watch world. nothing like it for under 10K outside of GS. Can pick them up used all day long for under 2.5k. Oddly, they haven't raised the prices on this like everything else seems to be getting hit (maybe that is an indication that its going away?)


It's a great watch but I'm not seeing them all day long at under $2500. Where are you finding them, I appreciate any tips. thanks


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

JOHN J. said:


> It's a great watch but I'm not seeing them all day long at under $2500. Where are you finding them, I appreciate any tips. thanks


There are a fair amount "asking" 2300-2400. Most people will take less than they ask - they did when I bought mine.
Here is one listed in the last week for $2200, which is a good target price. I wouldn't haggle at that price. 


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchexchange/comments/stavxw






sbgn005 - WatchRecon


Browse and search for watches efficiently with WatchRecon




www.watchrecon.com


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## JOHN J. (Nov 19, 2020)

chas58 said:


> There are a fair amount "asking" 2300-2400. Most people will take less than they ask - they did when I bought mine.
> Here is one listed in the last week for $2200, which is a good target price. I wouldn't haggle at that price.
> 
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for the link. Much appreciated.


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## YuG (Feb 13, 2021)

JOHN J. said:


> It's a great watch but I'm not seeing them all day long at under $2500. Where are you finding them, I appreciate any tips. thanks


Also Chrono24, specifically the listings out of Japan which seem to be fairest. I picked up my 003 listed for 261000 yen, which is around 2250 USD. 2019 production in very good condition and complete kit. There's an unworn 005 from the same seller for not too much more.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

YuG said:


> Also Chrono24, specifically the listings out of Japan which seem to be fairest. I picked up my 003 listed for 261000 yen, which is around 2250 USD. 2019 production in very good condition and complete kit. There's an unworn 005 from the same seller for not too much more.


GS prices in Japan are great, but after shipping, insurance and then at least another 25% tax take by customs here, the meagre saving on offer is marginal.

I noticed that its list price here (a little under £3,000) hasn't moved since launch which could suggest GS doesn't see it lasting forever. But it continues to release limited editions of that model type in Japan; the last is not more than a few months ago.

Anyway, it's got another, what, 10 months to go before new supplies become difficult. Naturally some will wait until it's officially discontinued at some point in future, and only then, buy them - driving the prices up accordingly.


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

Brent L. Miller said:


> Replying to my comment from about a month ago with an update as I have been told both will be "phased out" by the end of the year however plenty of stock remains for now.


Thank you for the heads up on this. I will still wait and see on this as you might have gotten the info from the same GS Rep that told me back in fall of 2019 that they had discontinued the $2200 SBGX261. Of course the SBGX261 is alive and well and still being made and sold as of this day. I feel like the GS Reps really don't know what they are talking about some times. I know it drives mt AD nuts


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Talking about clueless ADs. you can buy the watch used for close to 30% off MSRP, or you can go to crown and caliber and get an "authentic used watch" today and pay *$200 OVER MSRP*. Maybe they are preparing for this to be discontinued and become a collectors item? 🤣 😝


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

chas58 said:


> Talking about clueless ADs. you can buy the watch used for close to 30% off MSRP, or you can go to crown and caliber and get an "authentic used watch" today and pay *$200 OVER MSRP*. Maybe they are preparing for this to be discontinued and become a collectors item? 🤣 😝
> 
> View attachment 16460169


Crown and Caliber. For people like this, only later to the party. The more you pay, the more you value it.


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

Brent L. Miller said:


> Replying to my comment from about a month ago with an update as I have been told both will be "phased out" by the end of the year however plenty of stock remains for now.


What a shame..... Thank goodness I got my S BGN005 that was 4 weeks old (bought May 14, bought by me June 20) for almost $1000 less than MSRP. Full warranty and box too.

It is a stunner and is a great size for a fixed bezel GMT. Bracelet initially but the lack of microadjust was annoying. Put it on a brown leather strap that was great but I had my JB Forstner Komfit and I popped that on this morning. It was such a PITA to put on that I think it's staying on for a LONG time.


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## warsh (May 22, 2017)

What a shame they will phase them out. Mine has been all over the world with me and proven to be a great travel watch. Very versatile —- can really GADA! I’ve got to replace my battery now….











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## duckmcf (Jan 29, 2008)

If memory serves, the SBGN001/003/005 were released in 2018 for the 25th anniversary of the 9F movement. If (and it’s a big, “if”) they’re being phased out, perhaps they’ll be refreshed and updated for the 9F’s 30th anniversary in 2023…


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

I doubt they are being phased out. 

Certainly don't need to be refreshed (we don't need this to be a $4k watch).




Commisar said:


> What a shame..... Thank goodness I got my SBGN005 that was 4 weeks old (bought May 14, bought by me June 20) for almost $1000 less than MSRP. Full warranty and box too.


Best used watch bargain in the planet - any quartz Grand Seiko.


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## YuG (Feb 13, 2021)

chas58 said:


> Certainly don't need to be refreshed (we don't need this to be a $4k watch).


I'm sure Grand Seiko would like us to think otherwise.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Maybe the rumors are true? Looks like its replacement is coming to the market.









Quartz GMT SBGN027 and SBGN029 | GS9 Club | Grand Seiko


Grand Seiko has announced two new additions to their line of quartz GMT watches in the Sport Collection, SBGN027 and SBGN029.




grandseikogs9club.com





Changes to the blue dial are pretty subtle - moving the date, a little better lume and thickness on the hands, moving the crown (bummer), getting a more bland case shape. Same 9F movement. Surprisingly the price isn't much different ($3300). Not sure it is an upgrade, just something different.

What do you think of the change?

Interestingly years later, they still show exactly the same time!!!










The other 2+ colorways are gone, giving us a monochrome black dial watch as the alternative...


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

It's a cool monochrome look in its own right, but it's shame that the black version has lost the visual distinction of the orange 24h hand. I'm sure this was done to appease those who think Rolex had patented the colour orange (...) but they could have chosen yellow, which is sometimes used in their sports models, so has plenty of precedence. 

There may well be several LE models to come though.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Will be keeping my SBGN005 for sure.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

One-Seventy said:


> It's a cool monochrome look in its own right, but it's shame that the black version has lost the visual distinction of the orange 24h hand. I'm sure this was done to appease those who think Rolex had patented the colour orange (...) *but they could have chosen yellow, which is sometimes used in their sports models, so has plenty of precedence.
> 
> There may well be several LE models to come though.*


What, like this? Its both yellow and LE!


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## YuG (Feb 13, 2021)

I'm pretty ambivalent leaning towards negative on the changes. But then again I'm not sure what I'd fix on the original models. Maybe a better clasp on the bracelet?


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

YuG said:


> I'm pretty ambivalent leaning towards negative on the changes. But then again I'm not sure what I'd fix on the original models. Maybe a better clasp on the bracelet?


I agree. The original is spot on. I'd miss the crown guards (and date at 3). Not a showstopper, just like the OG better.

I do like the new hands. I always thought the thin dress hands were a little out of place on what is a sports watch. Sports watches can be bolder on the hands and have more lume.

Not expecting much in the lume dept though. Its pretty meh on the 005 and I don't see them improving that much (although there looks to be more lume surface area on the hands of the new one).


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

chas58 said:


> What, like this? Its both yellow and LE!
> 
> View attachment 16817707


Beauty!


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## YuG (Feb 13, 2021)

chas58 said:


> I agree. The original is spot on. I'd miss the crown guards (and date at 3). Not a showstopper, just like the OG better.
> 
> I do like the new hands. I always thought the thin dress hands were a little out of place on what is a sports watch. Sports watches can be bolder on the hands and have more lume.
> 
> Not expecting much in the lume dept though. Its pretty meh on the 005 and I don't see them improving that much (although there looks to be more lume surface area on the hands of the new one).


Yeah I'm fine with the handset change, even though the original doesn't bother me too much because they just look so good, but overall the changes really don't do enough to differentiate. If I wanted a 4 o'clock crown and sportier look the SBGN019, 21, and 23 are more interesting, albeit more expensive. 

I also just realized that the SBGN027 looks a lot like the recently released Evolution 9 GMT.


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

Price wise, the replacements for the 003 and 005 is only $100 more so GS is clearly not replacing the 003/005 to force folks to spend a lot more money for a 9F GMT (or else the watches would be $500 or $1000 more). I wonder why they felt the need to replace two of the most popular GS models? These lose the look that made the 003/005 such an icon. They look like the 009/011/013 with a number bezel. However they still stuck with the 19mm lug width........grrr...


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## MX793 (Dec 7, 2017)

journeyforce said:


> Price wise, the replacements for the 003 and 005 is only $100 more so GS is clearly not replacing the 003/005 to force folks to spend a lot more money for a 9F GMT (or else the watches would be $500 or $1000 more). I wonder why they felt the need to replace two of the most popular GS models? These lose the look that made the 003/005 such an icon. They look like the 009/011/013 with a number bezel. However they still stuck with the 19mm lug width........grrr...


Well, the new ones probably won't be as oft accused of aping the ExpII.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

MX793 said:


> Well, the new ones probably won't be as oft accused of aping the ExpII.


I guess. I mean having numbers printed on a steel bezel and black dial aren't that novel. Other than that, there are lots of differences....









much different crystal.
Sunburst dial on GS.
divergent brushing on bezel
cyclops
Accuracy: Rolex is running 3 minutes fast above.
GS has gorgeous case.
Zaratzu polishing gives a much different effect
GS dial comes across as larger much more dominating
etc...


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

more from browsing Insta...
no the 005 dial does not look that blue - its midnight blue (closer to black in many situations)


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

chas58 said:


> I guess. I mean having numbers printed on a steel bezel and black dial aren't that novel. Other than that, there are lots of differences....
> 
> View attachment 16819970
> 
> ...


It's the steel 24h bezel that people don't want to see beyond, ignoring that Glycine first used one (and it rotated!) back in '53 and Seiko first used one in '67 or thereabouts, several years before Rolex. Then again, the same corner of the Internet believes that Apple invented the mobile phone, so...


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

One-Seventy said:


> It's the steel 24h bezel that people don't want to see beyond, ignoring that Glycine first used one (and it rotated!) back in '53 and Seiko first used one in '67 or thereabouts, several years before Rolex. Then again, the same corner of the Internet believes that Apple invented the mobile phone, so...


I had a windows smart phone before the iPhone was invented. I try to forget those days though...


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

chas58 said:


> I had a windows smart phone before the iPhone was invented. I try to forget those days though...


I had a Nokia 2110, 15 years before the first iPhone came out. I'd happily go back to those days in a nanosecond!


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

So I thought these replacement watches looked familiar. It turns out the blue one at least looks like the Automatic version. Here is the auto version at my AD


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## westcoastco (Apr 10, 2016)

The lugs on the original look nicer in my opinion and the framed date window looks more premium. We may be getting better lume and sportier hands on the new one. Will have to see in person. The OG blue dial was gorgeous; not sure about the new one.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Funny thing about Grand Seiko these days - if you like a design, but want a different color or movement, just wait a few months and they'll release it. So many new drops, must be part of their new strategy. Definitely a different mentality than their prime swiss competitor! 



journeyforce said:


> So I thought these replacement watches looked familiar. It turns out the blue one at least looks like the Automatic version. Here is the auto version at my AD
> 
> View attachment 16820734


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

chas58 said:


> Funny thing about Grand Seiko these days - if you like a design, but want a different color or movement, just wait a few months and they'll release it. So many new drops, must be part of their new strategy. Definitely a different mentality than their prime swiss competitor!


Quite a few people have commented that GS has too many case styles, and entirely too many dials, and that this makes the range incoherent or dificult to navigate. Also, having hundreds of combos isn't really a luxury watch "thing". I have some sympathy for that view, and I wonder if this is part of an attempt to reduce the number of case designs in the Sport collection (since the SBGN003/005 case is not used anywhere else, except a handful of past LE dial versions) and concentrate the range on a case design with the crown at 4 o'clock, with only the divers retaining a traditional crown at 3. 

However there are already a lot of crown-at-4 cases in the range that are almost the same, but not quite, and this appears to introduce another new one. There is a crown-at-4 case available from the ceramic-trimmed GMTs; a 40mm case used by the 28.8k GMT automatic; the 40.5mm case used by the SD GMT; and a 39.5mm case used by the Antimagnetic. What was wrong with any of these?


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## sania1717 (May 15, 2008)

Received my SBGN 005 recently and totally disappointed with 24 hours bezel misalignment. Anybody seen that before. Can that be a famous qc of Grand Seiko??


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Difficult to tell from your photos. Some of the numbers looks spot on, but not others. Close-ups will exaggerate parallax error so you need to take a photo from further away, and dead centre. Currently there no way to tell how many degrees or minutes it's offset by. 

(BTW replacement bezels can be fitted by larger Seiko service centres, so if you're not happy, but don't want to return it, find one and have them remove and reinstall it.)


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## ts298 (May 11, 2021)

I see the misalignment you're talking about. IIRC this is an unfortunately frequent issue. I would have the dealer get you a brand new replacement.


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## F1_watches (Sep 3, 2017)

Are there any lume comparison shots? I looked around online and didn't see any.


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## SouthTX (Jul 20, 2019)

Yes, Have a 003. Like it (except for no micro adjustment ) and will keep. Ya I think GS will drop it and the 005.

I have a difficult time reading the 003 time at a _glance._ The highly polished hands seem to reflect so much light that it can be troublesome.

Would I be to far gone if I went all in on the 027 (not a blue dial fan)? (Two 9Fs). 027 Appears to be more legible with broader hands and what appears to be less polished hand set. Would probably move out my TI Winter. It is Really difficult for me to read at a glance with the gray dial and certain lighting conditions. Thoughts?


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

F1_watches said:


> Are there any lume comparison shots? I looked around online and didn't see any.


Everyone is hiding the fact that the new watch only has lume At 3 6 9 12. Lume kinda sux on both of these anyway.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

chas58 said:


> Everyone is hiding the fact that the new watch only has lume At 3 6 9 12. Lume kinda sux on both of these anyway.


It was raised in a couple of other threads, including one in General Population that turned into the inevitable car crash ("GS sux lol").

It looks like GS is harmonising dial and case layouts across the Sport range. Luckily they've left the ceramic 9F GMTs alone, with lume everywhere (and plenty of it), but they're not very popular.


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## westcoastco (Apr 10, 2016)

One-Seventy said:


> It looks like GS is harmonising dial and case layouts across the Sport range. Luckily they've left the ceramic 9F GMTs alone, with lume everywhere (and plenty of it), but they're not very popular.


The fixed ceramic bezel 9F GMTs are priced so high that rotating bezel mechanical GMTs from Tudor or Longines look like value propositions.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

westcoastco said:


> The fixed ceramic bezel 9F GMTs are priced so high that rotating bezel mechanical GMTs from Tudor or Longines look like value propositions.


Agreed - as does the market. Although they are cheaper than the 28.8k automatic GMTs (fixed steel bezel versions) and much cheaper than the Spring Drives, they're stiff for a "quartz watch", which even a reasonably enlightened market is apparently struggling with. 

I suspect the first rotating-bezel 9F, when it eventually comes, will be sold out, scalped and wait listed for many months to come. The people playing in this ballpark aren't going to have a recession .


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## duckmcf (Jan 29, 2008)

One-Seventy said:


> I suspect the first rotating-bezel 9F, when it eventually comes, will be sold out, scalped and wait listed for many months to come.


In the words of my people, “Yeah. Narh.”

I’ve come to realise that GS will never release a 9F86 with a rotating 24hr bezel.

Word on the street is that the GS product planning department has a picture of me up on their wall with the words, “This is the guy we’re trying to drive crazy”.

Every now and then one of the planners will walk past the picture and yell out something like, “Hey Barry-san, what do you think of an even larger 9F86, this time with a fixed bezel made of tungsten”. All the planners cheer as one, and then open a new bottle of sake.

Well, the joke‘s on them. I’ve been certifiably insane since the mid 70’s… 🤪


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

I almost forgot, for those that like both the monochrome look and the original version, this one is gorgeous. Very limited release though.


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## bto10 (Oct 19, 2018)

Edit: SBGN005 not SBGN003

SBGN029 just arrived.

The biggest distinction has to be that the newer model has the surfaces inverted. 003 has a polished bezel and top of the lugs with sloping polished lugs, side of the case is brushed. 029 has a brushed bezel with straighter/less sloping brushed lugs, polished side of the case.

The 003 with these surfaces, dauphin hands, date window, crown guards has the watch positioned on the more elegant end of dress v. sport. Then the 029 has shifted towards the tool-ish end of that same balance.


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## Piter_De_Vries (Apr 23, 2020)

bto10 said:


> SBGN029 just arrived.
> 
> The biggest distinction has to be that the newer model has the surfaces inverted. 003 has a polished bezel and top of the lugs with sloping polished lugs, side of the case is brushed. 029 has a brushed bezel with straighter/less sloping brushed lugs, polished side of the case.
> 
> ...


Your 003 has a white date wheel?


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Piter_De_Vries said:


> Your 003 has a white date wheel?


@bto10 has a 005 (red GMT-hand) - not a 003. Probably just a typo.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

bto10 said:


> Edit: SBGN005 not SBGN003
> 
> The biggest distinction has to be that the newer model has the surfaces inverted.* 003 has a polished bezel...*


SBGN003/5 do not have polished bezels. Mine doesnt. Did you buy yours new? On yours it looks like it was brushed, and then polished on top of that for some reason. 
Below a Seiko rendering, and my watch.


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## bto10 (Oct 19, 2018)

chas58 said:


> SBGN003/5 do not have polished bezels. Mine doesnt. Did you buy yours new? On yours it looks like it was brushed, and then polished on top of that for some reason.
> Below a Seiko rendering, and my watch.
> 
> View attachment 16901594
> View attachment 16901596


Oh wow, now that you mention it. I guess it must have been polished. I bought mine second-hand, originally sold from boutique December 2019.

See the below for the contrast. I can pretty well see my reflection with the 005.

I'm actually leaning away from holding onto the 029 because the brushed bezel has such a flat look compared to my 005 where the light plays very well with the polished sloping lugs.


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## YuG (Feb 13, 2021)

Oh weird, I wonder why they did that. If I'd wanted the dressier option I would have opted for the models with the 24 hour markers on the chapter ring and the smooth bezel. Forgot the model numbers but iirc those are usually cheaper too.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Yeah, I love the SBGN00x case design. I think it is the only GS with that case, and it works great. The older model has more lume too. I do like the bolder hands on the new model - makes it a tad easier to read.



bto10 said:


> Oh wow, now that you mention it. I guess it must have been polished. I bought mine second-hand, originally sold from boutique December 2019.
> 
> See the below for the contrast. I can pretty well see my reflection with the 005.
> 
> ...


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## Rice and Gravy (Feb 7, 2014)

bto10 said:


> Oh wow, now that you mention it. I guess it must have been polished. I bought mine second-hand, originally sold from boutique December 2019.
> 
> See the below for the contrast. I can pretty well see my reflection with the 005.
> 
> ...


I'd keep the 005. But I wish I could do a mash up of these two.
Hands and chapter ring from the 029, and lume and date/crown placement from the 005. And I'd keep the polished lugs and brushed sides of the 005.

I really like my 005, although I sometimes wish the date wheel matched the dial.
I don't wear it much and had considered selling until I checked current used prices and how long they are sitting unsold. I got mine from a friend a year and a half ago for a really good price, but don't think I am willing to sell for less than $2k.


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## alllexandru (Nov 5, 2010)

Bought one today 
005

Me happy


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## pjmaxm (Apr 11, 2008)

chas58 said:


> Yeah, I love the SBGN00x case design. I think it is the only GS with that case, and it works great. The older model has more lume too. I do like the bolder hands on the new model - makes it a tad easier to read.


Just wanted to say that if you like the SBGN00x case design it is also used on a few of the SBGX models and a couple SBGA models. The SBGX models are a bit thinner (I had a SBGX085) and the SBGA models are a touch thicker.

SBGX083
SBGX085
SBGX087

SBGA073
SBGA075

And also their new single logo models with the 2 in place of the 0 in the model numbers (i.e. SBGX283).


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## pjmaxm (Apr 11, 2008)

chas58 said:


> Yeah, I love the SBGN00x case design. I think it is the only GS with that case, and it works great. The older model has more lume too. I do like the bolder hands on the new model - makes it a tad easier to read.


Oops, forgot the automatic references that also use this case:

SBGR067
SBGR069


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## misterkevlar (Jan 28, 2020)

Recently bought a 003 had it on my radar for ages now, what a watch so nice to take it off and pick it up days later and its ready to go...its slim, super nice weight...however must agree it can play tricks on you in certain light with the hands. Glad I got the previous version new version is not for me.


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## F1_watches (Sep 3, 2017)

misterkevlar said:


> Recently bought a 003 had it on my radar for ages now, what a watch so nice to take it off and pick it up days later and its ready to go...its slim, super nice weight...however must agree it can play tricks on you in certain light with the hands. Glad I got the previous version new version is not for me.


Agreed and did the same thing. The 4:30 frameless date window and crown on the 029 and 027 and their more traditional sporty handset made the watch a bit too toolish and less of a GS to my eyes. I imagine part of this is just getting used to the updated models and maybe they'll grow on me. And as a GS brand fan, I hope so 100%.


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## pjmaxm (Apr 11, 2008)

Still feels pretty GS to me. The sides of the case now are full Zaratsu polish which if anything feels more GS than the brushed sides of the 003/005. The dial and hands/indices finishing is still impeccable.

Do I wish it had a color matched date? Yes but the loss of the frame is not a huge problem for me. Sometimes the framed dates are harder for me to read.


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## Richard_r86 (Apr 18, 2021)

The new one is nice, but I prefer my old one


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## pjmaxm (Apr 11, 2008)

Richard_r86 said:


> View attachment 16920918
> 
> 
> The new one is nice, but I prefer my old one


It is a nice one, I had a SBGN003 but just did not bond with it.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Oh come on - let's vote for it gets discontinued. It doesn't matter. Those of us loving it have it already.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Looks great on that strap. 
Then again, I think most GS look better on the strap as it brings out parts of the case design that just get lost on a bracelet.



Loevhagen said:


> Oh come on - let's vote for it gets discontinued. It doesn't matter. Those of us loving it have it already.
> 
> View attachment 16952691


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## SCRAPPYDO (Dec 29, 2016)

The 005 in particular is amazing. Loved that watch. Should never have sold it


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Time to change the battery.

The most confusing part was settting the time. I can't remember the last time I set the time on this watch (other than the jumping hour hand). I even forgot to set the time after changing the battery, I just always assume this watch is correct. Its the watch I set my mechanical watches to. Its just been so long since I pulled the crown out that far! 😅


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Yes - it seems that it has indeed been discontinued: Cf. second paragraph in this link: 









New vs Old - The Evolution of the Grand Seiko Quartz GMT


Grand Seiko surprised the watch world with the announcement of the SBGN027 and the discontinuation of the previous line of highly successful Quartz GMTs. Instead of sticking with the largely conservative nature of watches such as the SBGN003, Grand Seiko sought to change the formula. Grand Seiko...




www.watchuseek.com


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Why on earth did GS discontinue this gem?


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## Little Treasury Jewelers (Feb 11, 2015)

These watches have indeed been discontinued; however, it has not been completely sold out yet. If you are looking to purchase one of these, we have them in-stock but once they are gone that's it. Get them while you can


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

One-Seventy said:


> It's the steel 24h bezel that people don't want to see beyond, ignoring that Glycine first used one (and it rotated!) back in '53 and Seiko first used one in '67 or thereabouts, several years before Rolex. Then again, the same corner of the Internet believes that Apple invented the mobile phone, so...


Interesting anecdote about the Glycine. There was an Australian soldier who worked with the Montagnards in Vietnam in the early 60's. He requested these watches so that they could time operations.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

chas58 said:


> Time to change the battery.
> 
> The most confusing part was settting the time. I can't remember the last time I set the time on this watch (other than the jumping hour hand). I even forgot to set the time after changing the battery, I just always assume this watch is correct. Its the watch I set my mechanical watches to. Its just been so long since I pulled the crown out that far! 😅
> 
> View attachment 16963851


Gorgeous


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Pete26 said:


> Interesting anecdote about the Glycine. There was an Australian soldier who worked with the Montagnards in Vietnam in the early 60's. He requested these watches so that they could time operations.


You mean the little hacking pin at the 12? Yes that was a neat, if off-beat, solution. A few watches had hacking-seconds-at-12 mechanism but it was pretty rare. Can't think of any which have them today...


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