# fortis 595.10.46.1 Is this real?



## bluestifford (Jun 21, 2010)

Hello guys.

I wanted to ask the experts if this looks genuine it's in a local ad. Something tells me to get it checked by the forum experts first. Seller says the bracelet is a replacement. 
Thanks


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## Sergeant Major (Dec 13, 2019)

Compare here.








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## Sergeant Major (Dec 13, 2019)

The date font looks too thick. The engraving inside and out look off but this watch has been around a while.








FS: Fortis Fleiger Automatic 595.10.46 Full Size White Dial


Up for is my 1998 Fortis Fleiger Automatic 40mm 595.10.46 Pilot watch in good condition.ETA 2824.2 movement same movement that's in a Tudor Submariner 79090 great movement!!! Crown is screw down with 3 good turns! Lume is Tritium and has some glow left. The SS band is fitted for 7.25 but have...




www.watchuseek.com


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## bluestifford (Jun 21, 2010)

Thanks, the first link is for a different model. And that second link also a different model. 
But I will steer clear anyway since you say the date font and engraving looks off. 

Thanks


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## Sergeant Major (Dec 13, 2019)

bluestifford said:


> Thanks, the first link is for a different model. And that second link also a different model.
> But I will steer clear anyway since you say the date font and engraving looks off.
> 
> Thanks


No, just do a little more research. As the years have progressed the machining and printing have been changed. I have a B42, I would wait for an expert to chime in.


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## bluestifford (Jun 21, 2010)

Sergeant Major said:


> No, just do a little more research. As the years have progressed the machining and printing have been changed. I have a B42, I would wait for an expert to chime in.


Thanks for the input. I will wait a bit


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## cludwig (May 4, 2008)

There are fake 595.10.46.1 cases/watches in circulation. The ones I've seen were pretty good, but the case back was the give-away. On the fakes I've seen, the 595.10.46.1 is stamped in a secondary process to making the case back and because the case back is not flat, the bottom of the numbers is noticeably shallow (I don't see that here). Also, the i and the n in "since" are notably run together so that it is hard to even see the i on first glance (maybe some of that doing on in this one, can't really be certain as it is better than what I've seen, but not quite as good as the genuine watches). The case back Fortis logo on the relief is also shallower on the fakes I've seen than the real thing. 

Also, the fakes I saw were fully blasted, no brushing finish anywhere on the cases.

The numbers on that dial have a very specific font with a heavy use of serif when serif is generally avoided when maximum readability is desired, not like what you see on the black-dialed Fortis watches. I'd look for genuine photos of that watch/dial and see if Fortis used that font on the white dials.

Hope that helps, but honestly I've seen watches that were exactly spot on the original when looking for rare gmt chronos by Fortis (higher end watches are always faked better as there is more to gain for fraudsters). I just couldn't tell by photos alone. They looked right, but the seller didn't feel right. When buying watches, buy the seller first, then the watch. Do they have too many rare watches of similar type and vintage (using one good faked case design to make several with different dials)? Does the seller have a positive history on forums or as a brick and mortar establishment? Is the seller from a country known for a strong fine watch market, or a country known for well established organized crime syndicates (some countries admittedly have both). When it is a country that has strong organized crime and no luxury watch market to speak of, I pass. Remember, in a world of the internet, there are no really good deals. Everyone knows what they have, can reach a world wide market, and price accordingly. Good luck.


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## bluestifford (Jun 21, 2010)

cludwig said:


> There are fake 595.10.46.1 cases/watches in circulation. The ones I've seen were pretty good, but the case back was the give-away. On the fakes I've seen, the 595.10.46.1 is stamped in a secondary process to making the case back and because the case back is not flat, the bottom of the numbers is noticeably shallow (I don't see that here). Also, the i and the n in "since" are notably run together so that it is hard to even see the i on first glance (maybe some of that doing on in this one, can't really be certain as it is better than what I've seen, but not quite as good as the genuine watches). The case back Fortis logo on the relief is also shallower on the fakes I've seen than the real thing.
> 
> Also, the fakes I saw were fully blasted, no brushing finish anywhere on the cases.
> 
> ...


Man thanks ! That was a really great response mate.

Well the seller is in England same as me, and he's selling a crappy wall clock and an old tv. So not really a watch dealer. 
I did try to find white dials online but I'm not sure what's real and what's not. I guess I could try official well known dealers images. 
What calibre should be inside? If an eta 2824 would that mean it's genuine? I mean who would fake a watch then use the real movement? Huh stranger things have happened lol.

Are there any "tells" that means it's  genuine?

Thanks guys


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## cludwig (May 4, 2008)

No way to really know 100% genuine. If the asking price is high enough to make a profit faking watches then there will be fakes. They can turn a decent profit on anything over about 200USD. There are about a half dozen clones of the 2824 (Swiss, Chinese, etc as the patents are expired). Indeed many of the parts in the genuine Swiss movements can be from in China. If you are already making parts to Swiss quality standards, how hard is it to make a few more and then start doing final assembly under your own brand? Clones would be readily available and cheap to buy, and hard to distinguish from a genuine 2824, given that some clones actually contain some genuine parts due to those parts originally coming from China. Signed rotors are even available for fakes. Focus on the seller. Have a chat and ask how he came to have it, how long he's had it, if it has ever been in for service, etc. Basically, look to see if it was the cherished possession of a dead uncle or if he knows nothing at all about it. The fake Fortis market is relatively young, so if he's had it for more that 5 or 10 years, then it is likely genuine. If you see it in person, check out the lume. That is tritium paint which will charge up a bit from bright sunlight, but would fade rapidly as its job is just to change the radiation from the tritium into visible light. The half life is 12.5 years so it probably doesn't glow at all on its own for most vintage watches. If it has powerful lume then you know someone faked a T dial or refinished it with modern lume.


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## bluestifford (Jun 21, 2010)

cludwig said:


> No way to really know 100% genuine. If the asking price is high enough to make a profit faking watches then there will be fakes. They can turn a decent profit on anything over about 200USD. There are about a half dozen clones of the 2824 (Swiss, Chinese, etc as the patents are expired). Indeed many of the parts in the genuine Swiss movements can be from in China. If you are already making parts to Swiss quality standards, how hard is it to make a few more and then start doing final assembly under your own brand? Clones would be readily available and cheap to buy, and hard to distinguish from a genuine 2824, given that some clones actually contain some genuine parts due to those parts originally coming from China. Signed rotors are even available for fakes. Focus on the seller. Have a chat and ask how he came to have it, how long he's had it, if it has ever been in for service, etc. Basically, look to see if it was the cherished possession of a dead uncle or if he knows nothing at all about it. The fake Fortis market is relatively young, so if he's had it for more that 5 or 10 years, then it is likely genuine. If you see it in person, check out the lume. That is tritium paint which will charge up a bit from bright sunlight, but would fade rapidly as its job is just to change the radiation from the tritium into visible light. The half life is 12.5 years so it probably doesn't glow at all on its own for most vintage watches. If it has powerful lume then you know someone faked a T dial or refinished it with modern lume.


Hmm that ain't a bad idea at all. Ask him what the lumes like, a faker will likely say good. Am enthusiast would say how it really is. 
Thanks again


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## cludwig (May 4, 2008)

Buyer beware, the parts to make a fake are readily available for that watch. I found this on a website in the UK:

















Now, if you had a like new case, crown, dial hands, and rotor, why would you have not kept them together and sold the whole watch for hundreds of dollars instead of as 'parts' for 80GBP? (Also, you could clearly see active lume in some of the shots on the site, that won't happen with 20+ year old tritium.) I found that on a search for Fortis 595.10.

Honestly, these fakeries have turned me off of the online used market entirely unless buying from well know forum members.


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## bluestifford (Jun 21, 2010)

It's sold lol. Funny old world eh


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## cludwig (May 4, 2008)

I have to ask, was there an asking price advertised? Just wondering what their profit margin is on these.


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## bluestifford (Jun 21, 2010)

275 quid he was asking. What he got I don’t know.


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## citjet (Feb 11, 2006)

Could be a Franken-Fortis. A mish mash of parts and probably a real movement.


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## krcarserv (Nov 1, 2021)

bluestifford said:


> Thanks for the input. I will wait a bit


Why?If the Price is Right grab it,there getting more and more Sarce Fortis Watches.The ETA 2824 alone is worth a couple hundred.I have a drawer full of genuine Fortis Watch Material including this Model Case,Dial,Crown,etc the only thing Ive seen is people selling Bracelets as Original when there NOT,the Fortis Flip Lock Crown Buckle is even and straight vs Fake crooked and not aligned,this Buckle is not an authentic as the inner buckle isnt like that but this stainless,but the band isnt a major concern.The Movement,Case,Dial etc is ALL Genuine.


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## JimSclavunos (Nov 18, 2018)

Resurrecting this thread for a similar question; how about this one? The hands look a bit funky to me, not sure about the rest.


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## Nycitychef (Dec 10, 2021)

It’s not polished looks awful


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