# Lange Valuation over time vs. other collectables like Rolex/Patek



## Wrist_watch_ing

when you read about watch valuations over time, Rolex and PP always gets mentioned for holding and typically increasing in value. What's the thought on other HH brands such as Lange? Should one expect their Lange's to increase in value over time? Given their craftsmanship and gorgeous movements, i'm surprised they don't stack up or gain mention like the Patek's. I have a rose gold Lange 1 and curious how the market might value this over time. I suppose that might inform my next purchase as well when considering a PP or something similar.


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## dantan

At the moment, based on what I have been reading and hearing, unfortunately, A. Lange & Sohne Watches do not hold their value as well as Patek Philippe Watches, but that's no surprise.

I recently purchased a Lange, in spite of knowing that the resale value won't be great.

I do not intend to sell it anytime soon, but I also am realistic that if I do, I will take a huge hit on it.

In the end, I purchased what I really wanted.

A. Lange & Sohne apparently produces well under 10,000 Watches per year (and perhaps closer to 5,000 than 10,000), so when it comes to exclusivity, they are a lot more exclusive than PP, AP and VC.


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## CFR

Lange's annual production is likely about 4000-5000 pieces. Lange has said a few years ago that they want to keep production about the same but shift it towards the more complicated pieces. I don't know if that has changed due to market economics, though. If you want to see approximate annual production numbers, click the "Production Year" tab at http://goo.gl/vWFC7Q (the "Caseback Number" column is where you want to look -- Lange started with caseback #110000 in 1994).


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## mlcor

Even with Rolex and Patek, with the exception of certain models (mostly sporty ones, such as the Daytona or the Nautilus), they will not appreciate, or at least not under normal conditions. ALS, not having the common name recognition of the other two, definitely does worse overall. Since I never plan to sell mine, it's not a problem for me. The same is true in reverse for me--I could make enough profit by selling my Hulk and my Silver Snoopy to buy another Lange, but I wouldn't sell either of them...


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## Rivarama

If you take Rolex and Patek out of the equation how do they stack up in terms of value over time compared to similarly priced brands? 
I know you are still going to lose but is going to be as bad as a Breguet, AP, VC, Journe etc.?


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## Pun

Rivarama said:


> If you take Rolex and Patek out of the equation how do they stack up in terms of value over time compared to similarly priced brands?
> I know you are still going to lose but is going to be as bad as a Breguet, AP, VC, Journe etc.?


You are right to great extent. My only submission is that since ALS is a new Company in present form, we don't have a vintage collection of these models.

There was a huge gap since WW II when it was dismantled and 1994 when they restarted. You need a base of dedicated collectors to get appreciation in pre-owned watch market.

I think we may see appreciation in Lange after a decade or so when watch collectors compare them with other watch brands from 1990s onwards. They have everything that's needed for a watch to gain value in real term. At least they can't be called inferior to Patek in any aspect.


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## Rivarama

I think ALS will be a pretty good bet long term if they keep up what they are doing.


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## Pun

Rivarama said:


> I think ALS will be a pretty good bet long term if they keep up what they are doing.


Yes, I agree in toto!


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## Jeremy2101

Give Lange some time. The brand has a lot of time to make up. It was missing during a lot of the key periods in the last 70 years when Rolex and Patek made themselves into what they are today. 

I don't own a Lange yet, but once I get one I don't think I will be too inclined to sell it anyway. Not sure how the actual Lange owners feel about that. To me, Lange brings finishing to a level that is at the peak of what I would think is not "over-doing” it. It still remains a very function over form brand for me. It straggles the line of art piece to actual timepiece. My perceptions might change over time. However at the moment, my feelings on some of the HH and independent HH pieces are that they are beautiful, but I don't fully consider them watches anymore. Lange is still very much a practical watch. 

Does anyone else feel that way? That for me is Lange's number 1 draw.


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## dantan

I have owned my A. Lange & Sohne 1815 Up/Down for exactly four weeks today. 

I do not intend to sell it. 

For a Dressy timepiece, I feel as though it actually is still practical enough for me to wear it when I dress more casually.


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## xherion

I always prefer Lange models over Patek's equivalent for some reason.

Their designs are just more coherent and consistent, and the movement decorated nicer.


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## mlcor

I've owned my Saxonia Moonphase for just under a year, and also own a number of other high end watches. I can't imagine selling the Lange.


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## jamesmartin17

I don’t think ALS will generate the hype of the PP5711 and therefore will not command a premium over SRP like PP.

I have the Lange 1 and PP Calatrava. Comparing these two watches, IMO the former has better workmanship, aesthetics and functionality. As to exclusivity, Lange 1 has a very different dial unlike the Calatrava that looks very similar to other brands dress watches. 

I bought the Lange 1 for its value to me now and not for its future value. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CFR

I should have added this in my first reply. To your question, "Should one expect their Lange's to increase in value over time?" the answer is, "It depends."

If you look at the value of standard-production Lange watches from 1994 to the present, you'll see a pretty typical pattern.

For all current standard-production Lange models, the preowned price is always below retail. For the first few years after a popular new model is introduced, the preowned price starts out relatively high, but still below retail. Then, as more preowned pieces become available over those first few years, the preowned price hits a stable floor and then very, very gradually begins to rise -- but far too gradually to consider it an "investment" of any sort.

You mentioned that you own a RG Lange 1, so let's use that as an example. If you had bought a brand new rose gold/silver dial Lange 1 (101.032) back in 1998, when it was first introduced, you would've paid $19,800 USD full retail. That's about the same price you'd pay for that same 101.032 if you bought it preowned right now (20 years later). The brand new equivalent watch -- the 191.032 (which to most folks is indistinguishable from the 101.032) -- is now $34,700 USD full retail. So right now you could buy a preowned RG Lange 1 for about 40% less than a brand new one costs.

Limited edition Langes (unsurprisingly) do not conform to this price behavior model and are much less predictable. This has been the subject of much discussion among collectors. In the past 10-12 years, Lange has introduced various LEs that have frustrated and disappointed many collectors because these new LEs may dilute the value of previous similar LEs (or even standard-production models), often because these new LEs are not innovative or special enough to warrant being an LE (in the eyes of many) and are available in relatively large numbers for a brand the produces less than 5000 total watches annually.

For example, 3 years ago, Lange introduced the PT/black dial/rhodium hands 1815 "200th Anniversary of F.A. Lange" in an LE of 200 pieces (236.049). Guess what? Just a few years prior to that, Lange had introduced a "limited edition" of 500 pieces (an extraordinarily large LE for Lange) in the exact same watch with a rhodium dial (233.025). That was the only physical difference between the two watches -- black dial vs. rhodium dial. It's very likely that Lange offered the 200-piece LE before all 500 of the other pieces were sold out. And here's the kicker: The price for the 200-piece black dial model -- the later model with fewer pieces -- was actually LOWER than the price of the earlier 500-piece rhodium dial model! So imagine how you might've felt if you had bought the rhodium-dial version. And it gets even better: Less than a year after Lange launched the 200-piece black-dial version, they launched ANOTHER 200-piece "200th Anniversary of F.A. Lange" 1815 -- same watch -- but with a honey gold case and eggshell dial (236.050). That SECOND LE of 200 pieces was pretty offputting to more than one person who had just purchased the PT/black dial version a few months earlier.

Lange did this with various other models too, such as the Richard Lange "Pour Le Merite" (which first had a RG case/enamel dial, and was then introduced for much less money with a WG case/black dial). And in fact, just last week, Lange offered a 100-piece "1815 Tourbillon" LE in PT with an enamel dial for just under $200,000 ... but just a few years ago, when Lange launched the 1815 Tourbillon, it did so with a 100-piece LE in a PT case with regular rhodium dial, for just OVER $200,000. So again, here you have the same frustrating dynamic: Lange later introduces an arguably more desirable LE (PT/enamel dial) for less money and in the same quantity as an earlier LE (PT/standard rhodium dial).

Also, in the early days (late 1990s), Lange's LEs all had something very special about them -- either some special engraving on the movement, or a totally different dial, etc. That would tend to make them more desirable and valuable over time. The early LEs would never have, as their only distinguishing feature from a standard-production model, something so basic as different colored (but still standard) hands or dial. Those relatively mundane differences of course make the watch much less special, especially when Lange releases them in such large numbers.

So the net result is that certain Lange LEs -- especially certain early LEs -- have increased significantly in price (and then stabilized). For example, look at the prices for the Emil Lange 1815 Moonphase series from 1999 (150 in PT/black dial 231.035, 250 in RG/black dial 231.031). The retail prices on those watches were $18,200 and $13,200, respectively. They have more than doubled in price -- which is tremendous for a Lange, but still not so great for a 20-year investment.

With a few exceptions, the more recent LEs that are likely to hold their full retail value right now are those that are introduced in very small numbers (e.g., less than 30), usually because there's something quite special about these watches (such as the "Handwerkskunst" series). Those tend to be quite expensive, though. The Lange 1 Tourbillon with black enamel dial (704.048F) exemplifies this. It was released to commemorate the 20th anniversary of the Lange 1 in an LE of 20 pieces. The retail price was $221,700 USD. One was auctioned not long ago for basically that same price (slightly higher by a few thousand dollars). 

I hope this helps, and sorry for the long reply -- just thought some examples might be useful.


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## IllCommunication

So the short answer is.. no. They won't. Because ALS doesnt market themselves. Patek and Rolex both have excellent marketing and create hype around their products. This in turn leads to more demand on the secondary market. Could ALS get there? Yes, but its going to a tough uphill climb for any brand that wasnt big in the 90s. That was the turning point for pure marketing that really propped up the brands. I dont think anyone will ever take a bath on their ALS as HH always has fans but its not going to be like those two. Take Vacheron. They have equal to or better than AP in almost every way but they dont hold value like the Royal Oak does because the Royal Oak is marketed like crazy (even if its rappers).


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## Dancing Fire

I purchased a Lange 1 RG in 2002 for $12K and wore it for 3 yrs then sold it for 15,500, so no, you don't always lose money on a Lange.


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## Wrist_watch_ing

what an amazing, informative reply. Thank you!


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## CFR

rskelley75 said:


> what an amazing, informative reply. Thank you!


So, I'm dying to know ... You posted this question nearly 2 years ago. What went on between then and now? Do you still have your RG Lange 1, was yesterday the first time you saw these replies since 2018, etc.? I'm really curious!


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## Wrist_watch_ing

CFR said:


> So, I'm dying to know ... You posted this question nearly 2 years ago. What went on between then and now? Do you still have your RG Lange 1, was yesterday the first time you saw these replies since 2018, etc.? I'm really curious!


I do still have it yes. I originally posted it and your reply came in 12 days later, thus I Somehow missed it at that point. Funny enough, I never felt I got a comprehensive answer, and I happened to do a Google search for something similar yesterday when I came across my own thread. I chuckled, took another look at the replies and finally saw yours. I have a much better perspective after reading your reply. Would your thoughts differ in any way 2 yrs later? I remain curious as I continue to casually consider the Datograph or 1815 fly back but a data point is value retention over time.

I felt so rude not replying when I finally saw your thoughtful answer...apologies


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## Maverixk

When you talk about valuation you're specifically targetting second hand resale prices?

To be honest, watches are not investments , they're expensive toys. 

However, if you are a collector, the resale prices are attractive in the sense that you will be able to pick up a Lange grail , sometimes for pennies on the dollar.


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## CFR

rskelley75 said:


> I do still have it yes. I originally posted it and your reply came in 12 days later, thus I Somehow missed it at that point. Funny enough, I never felt I got a comprehensive answer, and I happened to do a Google search for something similar yesterday when I came across my own thread. I chuckled, took another look at the replies and finally saw yours. I have a much better perspective after reading your reply. Would your thoughts differ in any way 2 yrs later? I remain curious as I continue to casually consider the Datograph or 1815 fly back but a data point is value retention over time.
> 
> I felt so rude not replying when I finally saw your thoughtful answer...apologies


No need to apologize, and thanks for the kind words! I was just curious what happened. My thoughts are unchanged with the caveat that of course I have no idea what COVID-19 will do to second-hand Langes and the rest of the preowned watch market. I think prices of preowned original Datographs have held steady (that's one change in the last 2 years -- I found a bracelet for mine during that time!).


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## greentimgreen

CFR said:


> No need to apologize, and thanks for the kind words! I was just curious what happened. My thoughts are unchanged with the caveat that of course I have no idea what COVID-19 will do to second-hand Langes and the rest of the preowned watch market. I think prices of preowned original Datographs have held steady (that's one change in the last 2 years -- I found a bracelet for mine during that time!).


Ooh...please do share a photo of your Datograph on a bracelet!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CFR

greentimgreen said:


> Ooh...please do share a photo of your Datograph on a bracelet!


Sure! It's yellow gold/black dial ("yellowjacket"). I added a pic with in on the old strap for comparision.


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## greentimgreen

Simply superb!! Chapeau!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ranger822

CFR's discussion about price over time has summarized much of my own analysis of the market on many watches that interest me. Some watches have proven over time to have very distinct price points over time and the best investments are the ones that if you choose to buy should incorporate a fully stabilized price that you an weather if bought new (and possibly accept an initial drop) or a fully depreciated and stabilized priced pre-owned which in effect guarantees that over time the watch will continue to hold its value. The example CFR gave regarding the Lange 1 was spot ot. These types of watches, if they appeal, represent a solid investment from the standpoint of being able to possess for however long you choose and then sell and retrieve what you paid, sometimes even if it involves trading into a dealer. There are some watches that can hit a bubble market - sort of like the PF Nautilus or other really popular steel sports watches. These can be more risky. The question is will you hit the bubble and watch it burst or will the watch just keep appreciating exponentially? Time will tell. 

I for one choose not to participate it supporting a market of speculation in watches being sold in the secondary market for 2-3 times their original value and only being less than a year old. I feel there is going to be a market correction of crazy priced watches and the last ones left holding those watches will be the ones wishing they had stuck to more conservative and possibly much more horological interesting watches. In summary, choosing the right Lange, after proper research should prove financially satisfying.


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## Wrist_watch_ing

That looks fan freakin tastic!


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## Wrist_watch_ing

It's clear buying most Lange's brand new isn't a great financial decision, but picking one up on the secondary market after the initial depreciation, is unlikely to see you get hurt. 

There are countless examples of brands seeing value acceleration years later, Universal Geneva and even the time only Royal Oak's spring to mind. I can't help believe that ALS's is under appreciated for the haute horology that it is, and at some point will become more favorable from a collector's perspective. When i hear Philippe Dufour say on Hodinkee Radio that ALS is on another level in terms of quality watch making, and their movement design is unmatched, that that type of evangelism will ignite a spark.


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## Delraydude

A couple of points to add:
1. Other brands have ambassadors in the entertainment and sports world that bring high visibility and social media to affect demand for their watches. This demand of course causes prices to rise. 
2. The other brands, offer sports models that fit today’s lifestyle better than ALS, VC, and many Pateks except of course the Nautilus and Aquanaut (aquanaut...really???)
3. Even if ALS held its value after the initial depreciation, selling to dealers will knock off 30% or so because they have to hold the watch for so long. Not enough demand.
4. ALS offers too many Different watches and is a bit confusing. I have no problem with 5,000 overall production, but keep it streamlined to key pieces with a real reason to exist. 
5. Too many Limited Edition series that do not have a true purpose or key mechanical movement changes to warrant a new offering. Again, upsetting the core customer base and not gaining much more traction in the wider community. 
6. Don’t talk so much. You can’t find a YouTube video from Rolex or Patek with a spokesperson. They have pretty 30 second commercials with music and no dialogue. Actually, I don’t think Rolex has a YouTube channel. Keep some mystery. Create a moat around the castle. Have a little swagger. You know that you’re watches are equal or better than the best from Geneva. Act like it.


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## DoraTheExplorerII

1. Marketing not competitive enough. Other names have much more exposure and are better at indicating success and wealth. Lange is still too stealth.
2. In general they're too dressy and formal in this day and age. People aren't wearing suits anymore, they need something to match their high end streetwear.
3. Supply too big. Much harder to corner the secondary or grey market than FP Journes so cannot trick collectors into paying attention.
4. They need to perform much better in auctions.

If somehow Lange can really address one or more of these points under the grip of the Richemont conglomerate (probably difficult to impossible), then I think we will see them reach the resale value and status in the likes of Rolex, Patek, AP, Richard Mille, FP Journe. I'm not holding my breath for this, however.


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## capitalEU

Delraydude said:


> A couple of points to add:
> 1. Other brands have ambassadors in the entertainment and sports world that bring high visibility and social media to affect demand for their watches. This demand of course causes prices to rise.
> 2. The other brands, offer sports models that fit today's lifestyle better than ALS, VC, and many Pateks except of course the Nautilus and Aquanaut (aquanaut...really???)
> 3. Even if ALS held its value after the initial depreciation, selling to dealers will knock off 30% or so because they have to hold the watch for so long. Not enough demand.
> 4. ALS offers too many Different watches and is a bit confusing. I have no problem with 5,000 overall production, but keep it streamlined to key pieces with a real reason to exist.
> 5. Too many Limited Edition series that do not have a true purpose or key mechanical movement changes to warrant a new offering. Again, upsetting the core customer base and not gaining much more traction in the wider community.
> 6. Don't talk so much. You can't find a YouTube video from Rolex or Patek with a spokesperson. They have pretty 30 second commercials with music and no dialogue. Actually, I don't think Rolex has a YouTube channel. Keep some mystery. Create a moat around the castle. Have a little swagger. You know that you're watches are equal or better than the best from Geneva. Act like it.


I like this very much.
Especially the moat around the castle. Buffett fan?


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## WatchEater666

I don't think anyone should be buying watches as investments. If you buy ALS right, you won't lose much if any money.

I bought my brand new Zeitwerk quite a decent chunk below list. Enough that if I sold it right now I wouldn't lose much and I suspect I'll be at breakeven in ~2 years due to their consistent price increases.


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## ugo-daniele

My idea about brand brand like als, journe, is they are going to grow and be more and more recognized. 

Dont be fooled by the spéculative Rolex market , is just wind. This Is My idea.


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## Cincy2

Maverixk said:


> To be honest, watches are not investments , they're expensive toys.
> However, if you are a collector, the resale prices are attractive in the sense that you will be able to pick up a Lange grail , sometimes for pennies on the dollar.


Agree with both of these comments. The Lange's I have sold were used in trades to get closer to the ones I coveted. I now have a Lange 31 and a Double Split both procured on the used market. I am complete!

Cincy


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## AnonPi

Cincy2 said:


> Agree with both of these comments. The Lange's I have sold were used in trades to get closer to the ones I coveted. I now have a Lange 31 and a Double Split both procured on the used market. I am complete!
> 
> Cincy


What, you don't have a Triple Split?


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## Pongster

Unfortunately, Rolex and PP are outliers. Lange behaves normally like other luxury watches. They depreciate over time.


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## Cincy2

AnonPi said:


> What, you don't have a Triple Split?


LOL. Not yet......

Cincy


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## AnonPi

Cincy2 said:


> LOL. Not yet......
> 
> Cincy


Well, don't feel bad, neither do I.  (Or any other Lange.)

On the plus side, at least you still have something left to accomplish in life. 🙂


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## Retumbo

Cincy2 said:


> Agree with both of these comments. The Lange's I have sold were used in trades to get closer to the ones I coveted. I now have a Lange 31 and a Double Split both procured on the used market. I am complete!
> 
> Cincy


I didn't realize you also had a double split! Is there a thread? Pictures please!


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## Cincy2

Retumbo said:


> I didn't realize you also had a double split! Is there a thread? Pictures please!


It's off getting a service. Should be back in a week or so. Will post then.

Cincy


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## CFR

Cincy2 said:


> Agree with both of these comments. The Lange's I have sold were used in trades to get closer to the ones I coveted. I now have a Lange 31 and a Double Split both procured on the used market. I am complete!
> 
> Cincy


Below is a fun set of 3 jeweled Lange 31's, each inscribed "Unique Piece" (none are mine, lol) -- the set was split and the pieces sold individually:


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## ppluissz

Don't think a lot of people selling their langes, the lange 1 for me is a grail watch, that I wouldn't justify to purchase, since I don't dress formal lots.

If I got one I wouldn't sell it for sure, I think it is more of a passing down piece, than something you think you might sell. 

Sent from my SM-N9600 using Tapatalk


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## Hereditary Disease

ppluissz said:


> Don't think a lot of people selling their langes, the lange 1 for me is a grail watch, that I wouldn't justify to purchase, since I don't dress formal lots.
> 
> If I got one I wouldn't sell it for sure, I think it is more of a passing down piece, than something you think you might sell.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9600 using Tapatalk


Passing down watches is a mixed bag.. styles change and people's tastes are different... this leave the inheritor in a place where the sentimental value of the watch/collection excedes the functional or monetary value.. They nay have a really nice and expensive watch they don't care to wear or sell.


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## WatchEater666

Hereditary Disease said:


> Passing down watches is a mixed bag.. styles change and people's tastes are different... this leave the inheritor in a place where the sentimental value of the watch/collection excedes the functional or monetary value.. They nay have a really nice and expensive watch they don't care to wear or sell.


Yeah...personally there's no way I would expect my kid to keep a $$$ watch sitting around if they aren't into watches.


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## mlcor

WatchEater666 said:


> Yeah...personally there's no way I would expect my kid to keep a $$$ watch sitting around if they aren't into watches.


The only watch I expect my kids not to sell is my father's early '70's Hamilton because it is a piece of family history. The rest I expect will all go, although they'll be free to keep any they want.


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## Hereditary Disease

WatchEater666 said:


> Yeah...personally there's no way I would expect my kid to keep a $$$ watch sitting around if they aren't into watches.


If you're into watches, there's a better chance they will develop an appreciation for them... that's what you are truly passing down.. the physical watches are a head start on their collection.. or something they can pawn for cash if that interest doesn't develop


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## unclemexnyc

I love Lange as a watch brand and have always considered them haute horology. Furthermore, I was convinced that in 2020/21 I would buy a Zeitwerk which has been on my potential 'grail' list for a couple of years. However, we can't forget that they're part of Richemont group which means they're not independent (which seems to be a main driver of values on the secondary market) and Richemont definitely has an obsession with production #s. I've also noticed that Richemont brands tend to do a lot of 'special editions' which dilute the collectability of the offerings. 

I discussed all this with a collector friend of mine and he confirmed that it is not Lange's moment at present; he also said that they are beautiful timepieces but are quite brittle and needed frequent repairs / adjustments. 

For these reasons, I've decided to cross the Zeitwerk off the list and point my sights on the AP 26574 Perpetual Calendar for next year


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## CFR

unclemexnyc said:


> I love Lange as a watch brand and have always considered them haute horology. Furthermore, I was convinced that in 2020/21 I would buy a Zeitwerk which has been on my potential 'grail' list for a couple of years. However, we can't forget that they're part of Richemont group which means they're not independent (which seems to be a main driver of values on the secondary market) and Richemont definitely has an obsession with production #s. I've also noticed that Richemont brands tend to do a lot of 'special editions' which dilute the collectability of the offerings.
> 
> I discussed all this with a collector friend of mine and he confirmed that it is not Lange's moment at present; *he also said that they are beautiful timepieces but are quite brittle and needed frequent repairs / adjustments*.
> 
> For these reasons, I've decided to cross the Zeitwerk off the list and point my sights on the AP 26574 Perpetual Calendar for next year


A few comments, since you were considering the Zeitwerk, which I love!

None of the watch enthusiasts I know who've owned multiple Langes have left the brand due to reliability/durability issues. They might've fallen out of love with Lange for other reasons, but needing frequent servicing isn't one of them. So I'd respectfully suggest that your friend's comment in that regard isn't widely held. In fact, one of the things I've found remarkable about Lange (vs. say FP Journe) is that I can' t think of a single Lange model or movement since 1994 that ever had systemic issues. Lange is primarily a movement company, and they test their watches very extensively before releasing them. I'd be curious to know more about which Langes your friend owned and had problems with. To be clear, I've definitely had problems with Langes before -- and occasionally these problems don't get fixed the first time and are frustrating -- but that's more the exception than the rule, and it's definitely no worse than any other brand I've owned (such as Rolex).

My other comment is about production numbers. So far, Richemont has not been heavy-handed about this. Lange isn't flooding the market with pieces, and there's no sign of that changing anytime soon. They don't have the capacity to do that, and they've been sticking with fewer than 5000 pieces/year recently (they never went much above that). The Zeitwerk is a great example of this: Lange couldn't easily expand Zeitwerk production very much even if they wanted to (without taking considerable time to do so). One of the tensions in the brand is how to allocate production between the more complicated (more expensive) pieces versus the more basic pieces.

I just wanted to add my 2 cents if it helps with your decision-making, because the Zeitwerk movement is truly a (reliable) work of art, and it's a really cool watch to own.


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## Cincy2

CFR said:


> I just wanted to add my 2 cents if it helps with your decision-making, because the Zeitwerk movement is truly a (reliable) work of art, and it's a really cool watch to own.


+1


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## unclemexnyc

CFR said:


> I just wanted to add my 2 cents if it helps with your decision-making, because the Zeitwerk movement is truly a (reliable) work of art, and it's a really cool watch to own.


Thank you for the thoughtful comments, @CFR ! The Zeitwerk is truly a marvel of engineering.


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## CFR

unclemexnyc said:


> Thank you for the thoughtful comments, @CFR ! The Zeitwerk is truly a marvel of engineering.


Also, you might find these videos interesting:


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## mlcor

I've had three Langes, and still own two (an Up Down and a Saxonia Annual Calendar (the latter replaced a Saxonia Moon Phase). Never had a problem with the Moon Phase or the Up Down, did have a problem with the AC that Lange sorted out reasonably quickly. I've not heard that Langes were any more fragile than other high end brands.

I would agree that the more complicated the watch, the more parts inside, the higher potential for problems. But I suspect this is no different for complicated watches from Patek, Vacheron, AP, etc. Now, I would expect someone like Rolex to have far fewer problems given that the vast majority of their pieces are not particularly complicated.


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