# Doxa SUB 750t Professional vs. Breitling Seawolf Avenger



## gregfsu (Jul 9, 2006)

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to figure out which one of my two dive watches is the technically the "better" watch . Please share your opinions and comparisons if you're familiar with the movements of the Breitling Avenger Seawolf compared to the Doxa Sub 750t. 

...awaiting Tropical Storm Ernesto...:-!


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## T Bone (Feb 18, 2006)

Why not one on each wrist? :-D 

Two great watches. As far as "technically better", I'd have to give the nod to the Avenger. It has a Helium vent I think, correct? (Yes, it does... I checked). It is rated to I think 3000 meters, as commpared to the Doxa's "measely" 750 meters -D ). They both start with the ETA 2824 movement. Breitling decorates these and assembles them, and all are COSC certificatied. The titanium is also more corrosion resistant than the SS the Doxa uses.

Now with all of this, it'd be hard to consider the Doxa the "technical" winner. But on history, aesthetics and pure "joy" (an intangible, I know) for me anyway, the Doxa beats the Sea Wolf hands down!

Keep in mind, my favorite brand is still Breitling. And my favorite watch is the Sea Wolfs father, the Chrono Avenger. But between these two, as to which I would prefer wearing? I wear my Doxa now more than any other watch. And it's specifications are more than up to the task of any dive anyone I know has ever undertaken!


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## gregfsu (Jul 9, 2006)

Great reply T. 

I love both these watches. When I need to wear something light and comfortable I go with the Breitling on the rubber strap. I tend to wear the Doxa on weekends and for Dolphins games. Unfortunately it is difficult to get away with wearing a yellow or orange dail in a business environment. 

Also, thanks for the info on the movements. I was unaware that they both use the same ETA.


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## Dean in Canuckistan (Aug 22, 2006)

gregfsu said:


> ...Unfortunately it is difficult to get away with wearing a yellow or orange dail in a business environment.


Au contraire, I think it's fairly easy. I've been cycling almost all of my watches during the work week and have found that the Doxa fits in with a business or business casual dress code just fine. It's big and bright, yes, but there's nothing wrong with that in my view because it's also well built, classy, and clearly didn't come from the local convenience store.

A Casio Baby-G on the other hand...


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## obie (Feb 9, 2006)

gregfsu said:


> Great reply T.
> 
> I love both these watches. When I need to wear something light and comfortable I go with the Breitling on the rubber strap. I tend to wear the Doxa on weekends and for Dolphins games. Unfortunately it is difficult to get away with wearing a yellow or orange dail in a business environment.
> 
> Also, thanks for the info on the movements. I was unaware that they both use the same ETA.


Most people will not even notice what watch you are wearing in an situation. Being a WIS, I notice it 1st. What I have seen is business men in expensive suits wearing timex ironmans and shoes that do not match anything on their body.

It comes down to, that you notice it yourself, and may feel that is won't fit in. While in reality no one in the office would notice a 10 foot monster storming through the hallways... Unless he had a raise or pink slip in its hand...


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## dibetu (Feb 12, 2006)

Doxa has the heritage and history the Breitling is something for sience fiction divers. Who will ever go 3000m? No human unless in a protected atmosphere. You get what you pay for, the Breitling is more expensive but is manufactered to higher standards. However if your wrist is below 8" and you ever intend to wear a shirt you will need to get the Doxa which wears wonderfully comfortable.


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## jean-michel (Apr 30, 2005)

Two very different watches IMO
both companies have a lot of history behind them so I do not think it is a valid argument BUT :

Breitling is not a "diving wqtch specialist" as Doxa alays been since 1968

Breitling with this model is trying to "win a race of spec" ... but for WHAT ? 3000 meters ? ... no rzal issue there at the exception of making a monstruous watch (size an thickness) : I am a diver I have always dived with watch 200 meters or more rated it is by far sufficient and even excessive : historically Doxa have proposed "deep" WR but this is NOT an issue or a factor of choice : if you are a diver or even a non diver keep in mind that theses values are marketing nothing else

Movements of the watch are the same so no issue there ... SO ?

if you want a REAL dive watch with a LOT of history under its belt : First company to introduce deco bezel, first company to have a HRV valve on a dive watch ... Watches used by Cousteau team ... go Doxa ! , bare in mind than more of 50% of doxa owners REALLY dive (look at the poll here) this is FACTS

if you want a "hi tech hype spec" , a known brand by the average "Joe" go Breitling , Breitling impress people , Doxa is by far less known : this is also a FACT

if you are a diver : go for Doxa : Stainless steel is superior to Titanium for scratches and my Doxa did not suffer at all of a full month diving , all my titanium diving watches have been badly scratched : Breitling watches are difficult to rince specially because of the bezel wich is a real sand magnet (horriible noises when you move the bezel after a sandy dive) , Doxa Bezel is great for that ! , the lower profile and the size of doxa is better for diving

Price : compare 

I do think you have sufficient inputs to choose 
JM


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## msa (Mar 3, 2006)

If I didn't have a dive computer on the other wrist, then I'd take the Doxa, for the bezel. If I did have a dive computer, then the Breitling because it's the better watch as far as depth rating and having the helium valve.

--msa


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## jean-michel (Apr 30, 2005)

msa said:


> If I didn't have a dive computer on the other wrist, then I'd take the Doxa, for the bezel. If I did have a dive computer, then the Breitling because it's the better watch as far as depth rating and having the helium valve.
> 
> --msa


I feel quiet surprised as a diver to read this ...
you mean you are using the US Navy 1973 tables for your dives ? hum ... do you know they are not at all up to date and not conservative ???
I do not know what about the regulation in the US but in France you need either to dive with a computer OR with updated tables + a watch + a depth meter so you could not actually dive relying only on a old table
you say hat if you dive with a computer ... you need a 3000 meters depth rating ? are you SERIOUS ? , I would be also interested to know your use of the helium valve ... are you a saturation diver ????
JM


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## msa (Mar 3, 2006)

Dude, you are taking my answer way too seriously . All these "which watch would you pick" polls are just good fun. 

--msa


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## Steven Dorfman (Feb 14, 2006)

They are both excellent watches --- Hugely (no pun intended) different in appearance. My Doxas get far more wrist-time than my Seawolf. On land, they work for all kinds of social,busuness situations.
My secretary calls my blue dial Seawolf "the ultuimate watch to wear with jeans"
For amateur water activity, both work just fine.

Steve
_Fine watches are like diamonds for men_


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## gregfsu (Jul 9, 2006)

Nicely said Steven. :thanks

I tend to wear my Rolex GMT-Master II day in and day out at the office. It has a lower profile than my Doxa and Breitling Avenger. I also appreciate how light my Rolex is. I tend to wear my Doxa on weekends when I'm out and about in the Miami sun, I feel that it's orange dail keeps me from wearing it with a long sleeve shirt/suit. I wear my yellow dail-rubber strap Avenger when I'm out and very casual. 

Forgive my rant. I'm also watching my Dolphins.


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## twylie (Jun 7, 2007)

resurfacing an old thread, but I recently picked up a used Avenger Seawolf - blue face w/ Ti bracelet. I actually thought of writing a comparison review between it and my 750T COSC CaRRibbean. Easy to argue they aren't that similar, but the ASW is much closer size wise to the 750T than the SuperOcean is. My 750T is on a GMT braclet for comparison. I don't have a clear favorite, but will share my thoughts between the two:

"Same" on both watches:
- same base movement
- COSC spec
- flat crystal
- wetsuit extension on bracelet
- 120 click bezel

"Differences":

DOXA:
- Deco bezel
- decent, but not great lume on hands (my dial markers fade to invisibility within an hour)
- cusion case
- nice mix of brushed and polished stainless steel
- orange acents (minute hand and bezel numbering)
- outstanding bezel action - also easy to grip
- dial is a glossy medum dark blue with a hint of yellow when viewed next to the ASW


ASW
- silly depth rating (bragging rights only for my use)
- thicker case, but still wears well despite thickness.
- great balance and wearability
- He release valve
- removable bezel - this seems to be a huge feature for a dive watch as its actually serviceable vs the DOXA bezel being unremovable from a user standpoint
- raised Arabic numerals on dial
- red tipped second hand - makes it easier to pick off dial when glancing at it
- bracelet comfortable, but has grabbed a few more arm hairs than the GMT rice beads bracelet
- Ti is warmer and "softer" feeling than steel
- bezel easy to grab at rider tabs; less so at other parts of the bezel
- Double AR is one of the best I've ever seen on a watch. The crystal all but disappears most of the time. I've stayed away from AR coated watches for durability purposes, but the ASW changed my mind on this. Reflections off the flat crystals on my other watches are distracting to me now.
- lume is weaker than the DOXA but lasts evenly through the night. The lume on all my DOXAs is inconsistant between hands and dial markers. The ASW has a much smaller volume of lume and doesn't shine very bright, but can still be easily seen after 8 hours of darkness and remains even the entire time.
- blue dial is a matte dark blue, but very true color.

As I said earlier, no red headed step child in the lot. 

My CaRRibbean will always be remembered as the first DOXA I purchased. With its polished surfaces, it feels a bit dressier than the ASW. Case lines that date back over 30 years and still look good have to be respected. 

The ASW is a watch I've wanted to own for a long time and I finally found a nice used specimen for a decent price. The Ti finish helps offset the chuckiness of it. Can't ignore it, but it's pretty understated given its size. It's a very traditional looking watch overall.

Both are no nonsense tool watches that also work in a more formal setting.


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

I just bought the new Avenger Seawolf. It wears much heavier and thicker than the 750T. The Doxa is dressier with the bead bracelet and more high polishing.

The Breitling has higher tech points if that's important but the Doxa is more versatile as it can be dressy or sporty.

Enjoy the pics.


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## odp (Feb 18, 2006)

I've got a Sea Wolf (black face, pro bracelet). Its a very big watch.
It would be true to say that the Breitling and Doxa both use the same movement (ETA 2824) but Breitling uses a far higher grade, in house finished than the Doxa. It also has COSC certification.


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## mmcleaning (Dec 11, 2008)

I am not usually a Breitling fan as I find them too flashy and busy but the seawolf is not too bad I kind of like it. That being said I would still go for the Doxa


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## twylie (Jun 7, 2007)

odp said:


> I've got a Sea Wolf (black face, pro bracelet). Its a very big watch.
> It would be true to say that the Breitling and Doxa both use the same movement (ETA 2824) but Breitling uses a far higher grade, in house finished than the Doxa. It also has COSC certification.


The 750T I have is contains a COSC movement, but in reality all of my DOXA keep time within COSC spec. My Breitling is going to go back for service and to be regulated as it's losing 10s / day. Most accurate mechanical I own is my 750T Searambler which is within 2s / week consistantly on wrist.


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## jstawasz (Feb 8, 2007)

This is the first Stainless Steel Avenger I've seen and I like it. It has a beautiful brushed finish giving it a real tool look. Does anyone here know whether the change to stainless is going to eliminate the Steelfish line? Price wise I think the 750s were the better bargain than the Avenger. I think the Steelfish is more comparable to the Doxa in price. For Diving both watches are more than adequate. Both are over engineered as a 300M WR is more than adequate. Unless you are a pro and routinely saturation dive the HRV is just a decoration and potentially an unnecessary opening in the case which could result in system failure. That being said, who really needs a car that's capable of speeds over 150 mph? but, it's still fun to own one. As to which one is dressier, I'm not a fan of thin dress watches so I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't wear either of these fine watches. This article has caused me to rethink my upcoming Steelfish purchase. I was thinking of a Steelfish in 2009 as I prefer Stainless. The Stainless Avenger is now an option I hadn't planned on.:-s Looks like I have to do more research:-d:-d

Joe


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## T Bone (Feb 18, 2006)

Joe, while I can't authoritatively answer your question, I did just visit Breitling's (updated) site, and they list the Avenger Seawolf in steel (this post was the first I'd seen it also) as well as the classic Superocean, Superocean Steelfish and Superocean Heritage.

While they're still showing all of these, it wouldn't surprise me if one or more models were soon dropped from the lineup. But they are all there at this point.


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## karwath (Feb 24, 2007)

People have mentioned COSC, HRV, depth rating, etc., but no one has mentioned a comparison of the lume. 

I would think that would favor the DOXA, but maybe I am not giving the Breitling enough credit. 

It seems to me that lume would be a more important characteristic than COSC, HRV and depth rating, whether you are a desk diver or a diver who actually plans to use the watch on a dive.


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## Caribbean Soul (Oct 31, 2007)

odp said:


> I've got a Sea Wolf (black face, pro bracelet). Its a very big watch.
> It would be true to say that the Breitling and Doxa both use the same movement (ETA 2824) but Breitling uses a far higher grade, in house finished than the Doxa. It also has COSC certification.


 If you had one of the COSC versions of the 750T (https://www.watchuseek.com/showpost.php?p=1301157&postcount=2), as Twylie mentioned he has, would not the two brands then have the same high grade of ETA 2824 movement as well as the COSC certification?


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## twylie (Jun 7, 2007)

karwath said:


> People have mentioned COSC, HRV, depth rating, etc., but no one has mentioned a comparison of the lume.
> 
> I would think that would favor the DOXA, but maybe I am not giving the Breitling enough credit.
> 
> It seems to me that lume would be a more important characteristic than COSC, HRV and depth rating, whether you are a desk diver or a diver who actually plans to use the watch on a dive.


The Breitling ASW is known for having poor lume in comparison to most modern divers. I touched on it, but will be more specific. The lume on the Breitling is not terribly strong, but does last longer and is more consistant than my DOXAs. It has thin stick hands and small pips on the dial so the surface area is much smaller than the DOXA. What the Breitling does have going for it is that the lume is very even and can be seen 8 hours later in the dark on mine. Both on the hands as well as dial and bezel pips. The DOXA hands shine brighter , but the dial markings fade to nothing in about 3 hours on all but one of my DOXA. I think lume consistancy is an area that could have used more attention on the 750T seeries.

As far as dive use, I think if you're on a dive and relying on your dive watch lume to provide you info it means a lot of other gear has failed you (flashlight, dive computer, etc.) so you probably are screwed anyway and should have already headed to the surface. :-d


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## odp (Feb 18, 2006)

Caribbean Soul said:


> If you had one of the COSC versions of the 750T (https://www.watchuseek.com/showpost.php?p=1301157&postcount=2), as Twylie mentioned he has, would not the two brands then have the same high grade of ETA 2824 movement as well as the COSC certification?


No Breitling buy the 2824 in kit form and basically build it to their higher specification in terms of fit and finish, Omega do much the same. The standard ETA movements are not in the same league.


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## Retep (Jan 29, 2007)

I've had 2 Seawolfs in the past: a yellow- and a black-faced example. I sold them both after a while because they do not wear comfortably as they are very thick. I believe that the sapphire-crystal on the Seawolf is 4.8mm thick, and the caseback 4.75mm. This alone counts for almost 1cm thickness.

Overall height is 18.4mm, and my experience is that while wearing it the watch bumps easy against almost everything: doorposts, walls, tables etc. leaving dings and scratches on the soft titanium.

This height is required to reach a ridicilous depth of 3000m, never to be achieved by any human being.

Maybe a Seawolf is more rugged, but my 750T wears much more comfortable.


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## Caribbean Soul (Oct 31, 2007)

odp said:


> No Breitling buy the 2824 in kit form and basically build it to their higher specification in terms of fit and finish, Omega do much the same. The standard ETA movements are not in the same league.


 Ah, gotcha!

Actually, I enjoy the Omega brand but it is a fact of life that when folks need service that the Omega replacement parts that have been modified end up causing "_Limited sources, difficulty in obtaining and higher cost._"

I like the fact that a tool watch is as accurate as my Doxa watches are, with very stock movements, and they even have the higher grade COSC movement versions available for those who want them. And I also like the fact that my Omega cal. 1120 is a modified/improved ETA 2892, despite the added service issues that may bring. Horology is a wonderful thing. b-)

--Keith


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

twylie said:


> The Breitling ASW is known for having poor lume in comparison to most modern divers. I touched on it, but will be more specific. The lume on the Breitling is not terribly strong, but does last longer and is more consistant than my DOXAs. It has thin stick hands and small pips on the dial so the surface area is much smaller than the DOXA. What the Breitling does have going for it is that the lume is very even and can be seen 8 hours later in the dark on mine. Both on the hands as well as dial and bezel pips. The DOXA hands shine brighter , but the dial markings fade to nothing in about 3 hours on all but one of my DOXA. I think lume consistancy is an area that could have used more attention on the 750T seeries.
> 
> As far as dive use, I think if you're on a dive and relying on your dive watch lume to provide you info it means a lot of other gear has failed you (flashlight, dive computer, etc.) so you probably are screwed anyway and should have already headed to the surface. :-d


LOL!! I was thinking the same thing!!

Lume varies from brand to brand and from model to model within a brand.

As a former owner of two Doxa 750Ts, I was quite surprised by the variance in strength between my two watches. One very bright and the other very faint.

In light, you could not see any difference in lume application or thickness. Confusing why the intensity was so different.

I dont place a whole lot of importance on lume anyway.


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