# Zenith chronometre caliber 135 first series + Zenith caliber 135 overview



## sempervivens

Recently I was offered this, which I couldn't refuse:









A rare first series cal. 135, all original, from its first owner!

A Zenith cal. 135 as such is not rare, but a first series is - the more so in all original condition.









This nicely aged, original dial, should make all other dials blush, as they look repainted in comparison (many are).









The solid but elegant steel case is typical for a cal. 135: the same steel case was still used for later editions.









The case looks unpolished, with chamfered edges on the lugs.

it is a case in three parts.










Caseback looks unpolished as well. 









The crown has the correct logo for the period, although I think it was replaced at some point during service (possibly in 1963), as it doesn't look a perfect fit.









Original buckle:









This early cal. 135 has chromium plated hands and dial markers. What a contrast with later, more luxurious editions of cal. 135, when half of all cal. 135's were fitted with gold cases!









The lettering is also different from later editions. The emphasis here is on the 'chronometre', which has a thicker font than the 'Zenith' name, whereas in later examples the Zenith name appears bigger than the 'chronometre'.









But all its beauty is on the inside ... 

















































































As you can see in this picture the balance is uncut, monometallic, whereas the original balance for a first series cal. 135 was a bimetallic, split balance : I'll explain more about this in the second part of this post. I conclude that the balance was replaced during service with a second series caliber 135 monometallic balance.

Caseback shows only one service date (1963).









Although I'm not worthy of it, I'm of course happy and grateful that I got this: a caliber 135 should be the cornerstone of any collection.










Hope you enjoyed this.


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## chicagozqian

glad for you. 
expecting the 2nd post


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## sempervivens

*Part II: Zenith caliber 135 : first, second and third series *

There are several differences between the first and second series cal. 135.

According to Rössler, Zenith could not find any documentation about these differences.

Fortunately Nicola1960 made it simple and clear for everybody to see in this post on orologi & passioni : Zenith Chronometre cal. 135 nuovo arrivo - page 2

Here is a synthesis (with some additions) of what I found:

*The first series (1949-1952)* has a goldplated movement with "Côtes de Geneve" finish; it has a bimetallic, split, screwed balance; 
it can especially be recognised by a "pin with round head" on the main plate near the crown wheel, which can be seen in this picture:









The serial numbers for the first series are in the range 3869xxx/3870xxx and 4062xxx (see also below).

*The second series (1953-1960) *has a rhodium plated movement (*) with "Côtes de Geneve"; a monometallic, uncut, screwed balance; 
the movement is marginally simplified, which can be noted visually by the absence of the "pin with rounded head" (replaced by a screw, not visible on the main plate);
(*) a few second series movements were still goldplated, but can easily be recognised as second series by the absence of the pinhead under the crown wheel.

The serial numbers for the second series are in the range 4217xxx until 4872xxx (see also below).

*The third series (1962)* is the same as the second series, but the finishing of the decoration is less refined. In the third series there were also movements without the mention 'chronometre'.

The serial numbers for the third series start in the range 5362xxx and end in the range 6326xxx (see also below).

See also these 3 pictures by Nicola1960, showing the differences between the first, second and third series:








First series: goldplated; split bimetallic balance wheel; round pinhead near crown wheel







Second series: rhodium plated; uncut monometallic balance wheel; pinhead near crown wheel is absent







Third series: same as second series, but less anglage in the finishing, and in this example the 'chronometre' is missing

Actual production of cal 135 started in 1949 and ended in 1962. Production thus was for 13 years : *1949-1962*.

Note also that it is a *13 lignes* movement. There definitely is something special about that number 13 :think:!

With a total of *11000 *units made, cal. 135 is not a rare watch. Still, it has become relatively rare, because it is much in demand by collectors.

To complete this overview I made a list of serial numbers of the three series, which allows to discern the different production batches during the years.

As a general conclusion one can say that the first series cal. 135 appears especially rare. Most cal. 135's belong to the second series, especially around 1954 many were produced (after caliber 135 had already won the chronometer competition for several years in a row). But you can draw many conclusions, maybe better let the results speak for themselves.

There is one example which could represent the oldest production run of cal. 135; it has no known movement number, a repainted dial, and a steel case # 8763119. Judging by the case number, it was produced around *1949*.

Judging by the case numbers, this was followed around 120000 watches later (ca. 1 year later) by a second production run of first series 135's:

3869877 (steel case 8884024) (ca. *1950*)
3869905 (steel case 8884032) 
3869940 (steel case 8884007)
3869957 (steel case 8883994)
3869965 (gold case 456208) 
3870001 (gold case) 
3870041 (gold case 456294) : "produced on *23.10.1951*"
3870061 (steel case 8884057)
3870073 (gold case 488228) 
3870187 (gold case 534723)
3870210 (gold case 527936)

Additionally there were of course also cal 135-0 observatory movements: 

3951097 cal 135-0 (Phillips-Voutilainen cal 135-0 observatoire edition 2022)

Now following the movement numbers, around 190000 watches later (= 1-2 years later) there came a third production run of the first series cal. 135, of which I found two examples:

4062567 (steel case 8990993) Favre Leuba Zenith chronometre; with inscription SANTRAM 17th May 1954
4062593 (steel case; ca. *1952*) 
4062647 (steel case)
4062796 (this additional example was reported by Hans61)

*Conclusion concerning the first series of cal. 135:*

I found only seven examples of the first series cal. 135, which were produced in three separate production runs, dating to 1949-1950/51-1952. 
(later updated to sixteen examples)

Around 150000 watches later (ca. 1,5 years later) there followed *the second series* *of caliber 135*.

There have been at least seven production runs of the second series, starting in 1953/1954, and continuing with regular intervals until 1960. Additionally, there are some observatory chronometers.

4217256 (gold case) (ca. *1953/1954*)
4217359 (gold case)
4217397 (gold case)
4217481 (steel case 8991151)
4217431 (steel case 8991171)
4217xxx (steel case 8991198)
4217646 (steel case, number worn to illegibility)
4217677 (steel case 8991227) second series movement, but goldplated instead of rhodinated
4217759 (gold case was probably melted) with goldplated finish instead of rhodinated
4217824 (rose gold): produced *25.02.1954*
4217967 (steel case 9006110)
4218021 (steel case 9047931) rhodium plated

4250320 (steel case 9048110)
4250423 (steel case 90xxxxx)
4250xxx (gold case): produced *12.11.1954 *
4250520 (steel case 9092160)
4250589 (steel case)
4250628 (steel)
4250632 (gold case 582162)
4250637 (steel case, SN 744D777)
4250662 (gold case 542332) (hammerhead 143)
4250709 movement and dial (gold case probably was melted) 
4250728 (gold)
4250746 (gold case probably was melted)
4250791 dial with hollow star and 'importé de suisse' (steel case 9175164)
42508xx (gold case 542326) (ebay it 6000 £)
4250826 (rose gold case 582162) *12.10.1954*
4250828 (gold case 542128) with engraving 1956
4251060 (9 K gold case 28638 with Zenith London's subsidiary's Hallmark "ZWCo") *19.11.1954* (ebay.uk 5200 £)
4251122 (steel)
4251186 (rose gold case 542386)
4251256 (gold case 542166)
4251282
4251289 (9 K gold case 28762)

4405086 (rose gold case 612336) produced *09.09.1955 *
4405102 (steel case)
4405127 (steel)
4405162 (gold case 612292)
4405182 (rose gold)
4405296 (steel)
4405427
4405485 (gold)
4405486 (gold case) 
4405497 (steel 9254940)
4405594 (gold case 612384) 
4405600 (gold case melted?)
4405604 (gold case 617364)
4405647 (steel case 9254827)
4405990 (gold case 648510)

(ca. *1956/57*):
4518048 (steel case 9254958)
4518072 Favre-Leuba Zenith 
4518074 Favre-Leuba Zenith (steel case 9306384) (sold in auction on 4 May 2013 for GBP 3.600) 
4518260 (steel case 9250170)
4518334 (gold case 648524)
4518391 
4518393 (steel case 919449x)
4518450 (steel case 9194461)
4518564 
4518584 Favre-Leuba Zenith
4518650 
4518695 (steel case 9306425)
4518770 Port Royal (gold case 687760)
4518832
4518908 (steel case 9255048) ebay brazil 4400 $ (Oct 2016)
4519393 (goldplated movement but no côtes de geneve?); Favre-Leuba Zenith

4641318 observatory chronometer

4663046 (steel case 9297436)
466xxxx (steel case 9297355) (with 'shock & water protected ZENITH CHRONOMETRE non-magnetic stainless steel' on back)
466306x (steel case 92773x3) *17.07.1956*
4663081 (gold case 677891) 
4663146 (9 K gold case 30817)
4663224 (steel case 9297324)
4663289 
4663330 
4663353 Port Royal
4663400 Port Royal (gold case 772852)
4663401 
4663438 
4663439 (gold case)
4663xxx (gold case) produced *25.04.1957*
4663523
4663687Port Royal (gold case 687877) (€ 5800) 
4663727 (steel case) (this was reported stolen, from Gombrich)
4663824 
4663828 
4663920
4663952
4663983 (steel case)

*(ca. 1959*
4743020 
4743033 Port Royal 
4743050 (steel case 9415400) (with 'shock & water protected ZENITH CHRONOMETRE non-magnetic stainless steel' on back)
4743106 (gold case 765526) produced *30.10.1959* (Port Royal I model)
4743115 (steel case 9483935) Port Royal
4743131 (gold case) 
4743195 (steel case 9385925) produced *13.05.1959*

4732508 observatory chronometer
4732528 observatory chronometer with observatory certificate dated to *1960*
4732661 observatory chronometer
4732665 cal 135-0 in a test case
4732666 observatory chronometer


4743106 (gold case 765526) produced *30.10.1959*
4743127 (gold capped case 9530007)
4743195 (steel case 9385925) produced *13.05.1959* 
4743235 (gold capped case 9529985)
4743290 (gold capped case 9530030)
4743387 Port Royal (steel case 9483912) (€ 14.995, Veldeszenith)
4743392 Port Royal (gold case 765562) produced *1959*
4743437 (steel case)
4743475 Zenith 2000 (steel case 9485375) engraved 26.3.1960
4743679 Port Royal (steel case 9493959) 
4743730 Port Royal (gold case 816530) 
4743763
4743803 Port Royal 
4743921
4743926 (steel case 9579836)

*(ca. 1960*
4872096 Favre-Leuba Zenith (steel case 9564716) *7.9.1960*
4872109
4872199 (steel case 9564729) (ebay.uk £ 4000)
4872349 Port Royal 
4872469 Zenith 2000 (steel case 9579919) 
4872480
4872674 (steel case)
4872718 Port Royal (steel case 9651915)
4872857 (steel case 9663247)
4872882
4872943 Port Royal (steel case 9651873)


*Conclusion*: the second series is the most prolific and was made from ca. 1953 until 1960, with a peak in production around 1954.

Finally,* the third series (ca. 1962-69) :*
according to Rössler the last production year of cal. 135 was 1962, the remaining movements of which were then used up until 1969.

Still there are different serial numbers for different years (between 1962 and 1967):

5362010 Zenith 2000 steel case between lugs 9668880 engraved 11.8.1962
5362084 Zenith 2000 steel case engraved 19.11.62 
5362134 non-chronometer Zenith 2000 
5362145 Zenith 2000 'produced 1959'
5362178 Zenith 2000 
5362197 non-chronometer  Zenith 2000
5362590 Zenith 2000 
5362625 Port Royal (steel case 9697655) 
5362627 non-chronometer Zenith 2000 (serial number under balance)
5362666 Port Royal (steel case 9697666) 
5362680 Port Royal (steel case 9697590) 

*(ca. 1963*
5414172 Zenith 2000
5414383
5414499 Zenith 2000 (on back) case 779A182 (between lugs) (case number dates ca. 1967)
5414998 Zenith 2000 (on back) case 779A593 (between lugs) 
5414531 Zenith 2000 (steel case 9753571 between lugs)
5414695 Zenith 2000 (steel case with engraving 30-5-1964)

*(ca. 1964/67*
Zenith 2000 (dial and movement signed chronometre) steel case 284A778 with engraving 5th Sept 1966 
5816755 Zenith 2000 (dial and movement signed chronometre) steel case 284A821
(no serial number visible) Zenith 2000 (steel case 429Axxx between lugs) (case number dates ca. 1965) sold Feb 19, 2013 US $7,700.00 (Italy)
5414998 Zenith 2000 (steel case, number 799A593 between the lugs) dated '1963' (but case number dates ca. 1966/67)
5455034

58xxxxx Zenith 2000 non-chronometer (mentions "2000" only on the back)

63xxxxx chronometer Zenith 2000 (ca. 1966-67) 
6326611 non-chronometer Zenith 2000
632xxxx Favre-Leuba Zenith chronometer with Zenith 2000 caseback
6326479 Zenith 2000 (case 799A648) (case number dates ca. 1967)
6326611 Zenith 2000
6326627 Zenith 2000

*Conclusion concerning the third series*: most common model here is the Zenith 2000, but in the first batch we still see some Port-Royal's. Often the serial numbers of the movements are not visible in pictures, because ca. 1963 Zenith started to engrave the numbers below the balance. Additionally, the Zenith 2000 had a special caseback (with Zenith 2000 logo) : these have a case number between the lugs. Since the movements for the third series were supposedly all made in 1962, I'll mention Nicola's theory that the serial numbers were added only when the watches were finished.

*I hope you like this and may find it useful.

Thanks to all who have contributed pics or information.

Special thanks to Nicola1960 for explaining the differences between the three series and providing so much useful information.

Also thanks to Hans61 for adding many more serial numbers to the list. Danke!*

To conclude with some catalog illustrations.

Thanks to Nicola1960 again for the following three pictures from a 1953 catalog:

























Thanks to LouS for the following pic from a catalog (ca. 1954):









And thanks to all...


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## chicagozqian

very interesting thanks


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## Hartmut Richter

Wonderful watch - congratulations!

I am not sure where you got the production of 13500 instead of 11000 from, there seems to be no documentation (Rössler also lists 11000 and, although he not always correct as we know, we have no proof to the contrary here).

The "pin with a rounded head" is a decoupling device to take the hour and minute hands out of the main power transmission while the time is being set, allowing the main movement to run without any extra friction and maintain chronometric accuracy to the greatest possible extent. I have a German article on that (in bad photocopies), if necessary, I will upload the page with the relevant diagramme.

The 13''' size is significant only to the extent that it was the maximum size allowed for movements in the observatory competitions for the wrist watch grade (30mm diameter or 707mm² total area for form movements, which is where the Zenith Cal. 707 - the "potato"! - got its designation from). This is the reason why there are so many 13''' and very few 14''' and 15''' movements around (except chronographs, where every little bit of extra area for the chrono mechanism made a difference - chronographs were almost never tested in observatory competitions anyway!). Any movement larger than 13''' would have to be entered in the pocket watch grade and would then have to compete against movement up to 50mm diameter. Since larger movements are more accurate, all other things being equal, the chances of doing well in that category for a 14''' movement were slim.

Enjoy the watch!

Hartmut Richter


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## MMMD

Congratulations on a wonderful addition to your collection!
Well I'll be darned... never noticed that "decoupling" device. My 135 has a gilt movement, a 421xxxx serial number, and no decoupling device.










I had considered it a late first-series movement, but because of this silly little knob near the crown wheel I'll have to call it a transitional movement between the gilt first series and rhodinated second series. There are others like it, as John Chris will attest. Thanks for the information! Looks like there is a sudden cavity in my collection that must be filled.


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## sempervivens

Hartmut Richter said:


> Wonderful watch - congratulations!
> 
> I am not sure where you got the production of 13500 instead of 11000 from, there seems to be no documentation (Rössler also lists 11000 and, although he not always correct as we know, we have no proof to the contrary here).
> 
> The "pin with a rounded head" is a decoupling device to take the hour and minute hands out of the main power transmission while the time is being set, allowing the main movement to run without any extra friction and maintain chronometric accuracy to the greatest possible extent. I have a German article on that (in bad photocopies), if necessary, I will upload the page with the relevant diagramme.
> 
> The 13''' size is significant only to the extent that it was the maximum size allowed for movements in the observatory competitions for the wrist watch grade (30mm diameter or 707mm² total area for form movements, which is where the Zenith Cal. 707 - the "potato"! - got its designation from). This is the reason why there are so many 13''' and very few 14''' and 15''' movements around (except chronographs, where every little bit of extra area for the chrono mechanism made a difference - chronographs were almost never tested in observatory competitions anyway!). Any movement larger than 13''' would have to be entered in the pocket watch grade and would then have to compete against movement up to 50mm diameter. Since larger movements are more accurate, all other things being equal, the chances of doing well in that category for a 14''' movement were slim.
> 
> Enjoy the watch!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks Hartmut. In the English translation of Rössler on p. 123 he writes 'The movement was produced until 1956 for a total of 13500 units.' Is it the same in the German edition?
I see now that in his movement list on p. 31 he mentions 11000. If he contradicts himself, I would choose the higher number to be on the safe side.
13500 units produced of caliber 135 in 13 years. It's too good, _not _to be true b-)


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## sempervivens

MMMD said:


> Congratulations on a wonderful addition to your collection!
> Well I'll be darned... never noticed that "decoupling" device. My 135 has a gilt movement, a 421xxxx serial number, and no decoupling device.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had considered it a late first-series movement, but because of this silly little knob near the crown wheel I'll have to call it a transitional movement between the gilt first series and rhodinated second series. There are others like it, as John Chris will attest. Thanks for the information! Looks like there is a sudden cavity in my collection that must be filled.


Thanks M. Well you certainly have a beautiful pair of 135's already, one steel and one gold, I don't see any cavities there ;-)


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## sempervivens

thank you


chicagozqian said:


> very interesting thanks


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## D N Ravenna

Very nice, thanks for sharing!

:-!

Dan


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## nicola1960

:-!




P.S.
Aggiungo:
L'orologio Zenith "2000": l'ultimo con il cal. 135


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## sempervivens

D N Ravenna said:


> Very nice, thanks for sharing!
> 
> :-!
> 
> Dan


Thank You Dan


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## sempervivens

nicola1960 said:


> :-!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S.
> Aggiungo:
> L'orologio Zenith "2000": l'ultimo con il cal. 135


Wonderful Nicola. Thank You.

Excellent new post you did on the "Zenith 2000" !

PS For your research concerning the "Zenith 2000", note that some have a serial number between the lugs, e.g. 429Axxx.
(Da notare per la tua ricerca "Zenith 2000": alcuni hanno un numero seriale tra le anse, per esempio 429Axxx)


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## nicola1960

;-)


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## sempervivens

"La perfection existe, Zenith le prouve!" :-! "Il est toujours l'heure Zenith" :-! Pretty cool slogans b-) Nice drawing of the men behind microscopes


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## Hans61

Hi sempervivens.
I have added your numbers to my list:

3869877 Cal 135
3869905 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 8884032
3869989 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 456252 18K
3870001 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
3870041 Cal 135 vom 23.10.1951 Zenith 456294
4062593 Cal 135
4062647 Cal 135 vom 26.12.1952 Zenith Chronometre
4062796 Cal 135
4217256 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4217359 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometer
4217397 Cal 135 von 1960 Zenith Chronometre 18K RösslerS126
4217481 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 8991151
4217677 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 8991227
4217759 Cal 135
4217824 Cal 135 vom 25.02.1954 Zenith Chronometre
4217967 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 9006110
4250xxx Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4250320 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 9048110
4250423 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4250520 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometer 9092160
4250589 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4250628 Cal 135
4250632 Cal 135
4250728 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4250746 Cal 135
4250813 Cal 135 Zenith ???
4251122 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4251282 Cal 135
4251289 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 28762 9K
4260375 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4405086 Cal 135 vom 09.09.1955 Zenith Chronometre 612336 18K
4405102 Cal 135 vom 07.06.1955 Zenith Chronometre
4405127 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 9175197
4405296 Cal 135 vom 29.04.1955 Zenith Chronometre
4405427 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4405485 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 18K
4405486 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 542196 18K
4405594 Cal 135 vom 09.09.1955 Zenith Chronometre 612384 18K
4405600 Cal 135 nur Werk
4405647 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 9254827
4518074 Cal 135 Favre-Leuba Zenith 9306384
4518391 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometer
4518393 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 919449
4518564 Cal 135 Zenith HAU
4518584 Cal 135 von 1955 Zenith Favre-Leuba Chronometer Rössler
4518650 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4518695 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 9306425
4518779 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4519393 Cal 135
4641318 Cal 135
4663081 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 677891 18K
4663146 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 30817 9K
4663289 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4663330 Cal 135 Zenith 1050654
4663353 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre Port Royal 18K
4663401 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4663438 Cal 135 Zenith HAU
4663439 Cal 135 Zenith
4663490 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre Port Royal 18K
4663710 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4663727 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4663824 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4663828 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4663920 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4663952 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4663983 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4732528 Cal 135-O Zenith Chronometre Spezial Observatoriumsuhr
4732661 Cal 135-O Zenith Chronometre Observatoriumsuhr
4732666 Cal 135-O Ebauche 1950 Zenith Chronometre Observatoriumsuhr
4743020 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4743033 Cal 135 Zenith Port Royal Chronometre
4743050 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 9415400
4743106 Cal 135 vom 30.10.1959 Zenith Port Royal Chronometre 765526 18K Rössler
4743115 Cal 135 Zenith Port Royal Chronometre 9483935
4743131 Cal 135
4743195 Cal 135 vom 13.05.1959 Zenith Chronometre 9385925 Rössler
4743437 Cal 135 vom 18.11.1959 Zenith Chronometre
4743679 Cal 135 Zenith Port Royal Chronometre 9493959
4743724 Cal 135 Zenith Port Royal Chronometre
4743730 Cal 135 Zenith Port Royal Chronometre 816530 18K
4743803 Cal 135 Zenith Port Royal Chronometre
4743921 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4872096 Cal 135 vom 07.09.1960 Zenith Favre-Leuba Chronometre 9564716 Rössler
4872109 Cal 135
4872349 Cal 135 Zenith Port Royal Chronometre
4872480 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 700160 18K
4872674 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre
4872857 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre 9663247
4872882 Cal 135
4872943 Cal 135 Zenith Port Royal Chronometre 9651873
5362134 Cal 135 Zenith 2000
5362178 Cal 135 Zenith 2000
5362197 Cal 135 Zenith 2000 9669117
5362590 Cal 135 Zenith 2000
5362625 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre Port Royal 9697655
5362627 Cal 135 Zenith 2000
5362666 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre Port Royal 9697666
5362680 Cal 135 Zenith Chronometre Port Royal 9697590
5414172 Cal 135 Zenith 2000
5414383 Cal 135 Zenith 2000
5455034 Cal 135 Zenith HAU
632xxxx Cal 135 Zenith 2000 Chronometre
6326344? Cal 135 Zenith 2000 Chronometre
6326351 Cal 135 Zenith Favre Leuba
6326479 Cal 135 Zenith 2000 799A648
6326611 Cal 135 Zenith 2000
6326627 Cal 135 von 1957 Zenith 2000 Chronometre Rössler


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## Hartmut Richter

Nope - 'fraid not! The German version is correct: it states 11000 made (rather than 13500). I think that was a bit of a Freudian slip on behalf of the translator - take the calibre number and add two zeros! A pity - it would have amounted to an increase in production of ca. 20%.....:-(

Hartmut Richter


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## sempervivens

Hartmut Richter said:


> Nope - 'fraid not! The German version is correct: it states 11000 made (rather than 13500). I think that was a bit of a Freudian slip on behalf of the translator - take the calibre number and add two zeros! A pity - it would have amounted to an increase in production of ca. 20%.....:-(
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thank You Hartmut! Translators are dreamers, aren't they, dreaming their day away.

However it's still a 13 lignes movement that was produced for 13 years 



Hans61 said:


> Hi sempervivens.
> I have added your numbers to my list:


Thank You Hans I've added your numbers to my list as well. Thanks for all the extra work ;-)


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## sempervivens

Thanks to Hans, there were also several observatory chronometers included in the list.

These were not for sale, made only for testing purposes.

The observatory cal. 135-0 movements always appear goldplated without côtes de genève.

They have a normal regulator instead of the fancy old (1903 Zenith patent) regulator.

No incabloc, hence it is named cal. 135-0 instead of cal. 135-6.

And they always have the "decoupling device", revealed by the "pin with round head" near the crown wheel, as in the first series cal. 135.

One has # 4641318 and can be seen on this page https://sites.google.com/site/zenithistoric/zenith-et-le-calibre-135 :









The serial number dates it to around 1956.

Another observatory chronometer which can be seen on the same page has a later number # 4732508 (around 1958).










That is close to three more observatory watches reported by Hans:

4732528 Cal 135-O Zenith Chronometre Spezial Observatoriumsuhr 
4732661 Cal 135-O Zenith Chronometre Observatoriumsuhr 
4732666 Cal 135-O Ebauche 1950 Zenith Chronometre Observatoriumsuhr

This group of serial numbers dates to 1958, or just prior to the launch of the Zenith Port Royal.

The # 4732528 can be seen on this page Hauke Heffels - News (entry dated 26 May 2008).

Maybe Hartmut can translate the information by Heffels about the "isolateur" or decoupling device?

This, we are informed by Heffels, has an observatory bulletin dated to 1960:







J.P. Sunier regulated it and it received an N = 13.


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## Hartmut Richter

It is close to midnight, I have just eaten my dinner after spending ca. 2 hours putting a new computer table together (after putting the children to bed, after repairing one of the children's toys) - so I'm afraid that the translation will have to wait until tomorrow! You seem to have got the gist pretty well yourself.....

Hartmut Richter


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## Hessu

Sempers, have noticed, the rear end of regulatorpin carrier is not in it's position, inside the shell-like hole. It is either put incorrectly up together or the pin that holds it there is broken.
A nice one anyway!


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## Hartmut Richter

I think that's just a trick of the light - plus some staining on the top of the pin.

Here is your translation:

"Observatory calibre Zenith 135. One of the most sought after observatory calibres among collectors.

Zenith Chronometre Special (with regulator) with a valid observatory bulletin from 1960. The watch was regulated by J.P. Sunier and achieved N=13

According to regulations introduced in 1949, the officials limited the surface of wristwatch chronometers submitted for observatory testing to 707mm². The height was also limited to 5mm. Circular movements attained this limit at 30mm in diameter and therefore represented the most frequently submitted calibre type.

E. Jobin constructed the first archaetypal version of the Cal. 135 in 1949. This calibre may be recognised by the pin next to the crown wheel. Underneath the bridge may be found a friction spring for the minute wheel pinion there which is used to eliminate the _Zahnluft _[_no equivalent found, I presume he simply means the connection_]. This calibre is therefore designated as Cal. 135 "_avec isolateur_". Almost all observatory versions of the Cal. 135 may be recognised by this. The subsequent versions for watches destined for the open market lacks this characteristic. Furthermore, all movements tested by an observatory are marked with an "O" underneath the balance wheel."

My comments: J.P. Sunier can't have been all that hot a regulateur. N=13 is not an especially good grade and only gets you a second or third prize (called "_bulletin de marche_"). At the Concours International in 1948 in Neuchatel, 13.0 was a second but 13.01 would have been third prize, i.e. a borderline performance. The best regulateur Zenith had around that time was probably Charles Fleck. He regularly raked in first prizes, such as the top five (out of the permitted maximum of eight per maker per class) Zenith deck/pocket chronometers at that same contest - the top four also being the top four non-tourbillon movements of all calibres of all makers tested!

Hartmut Richter


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## sempervivens

Hartmut Richter said:


> I think that's just a trick of the light - plus some staining on the top of the pin.
> 
> Here is your translation:
> 
> "Observatory calibre Zenith 135. One of the most sought after observatory calibres among collectors.
> 
> Zenith Chronometre Special (with regulator) with a valid observatory bulletin from 1960. The watch was regulated by J.P. Sunier and achieved N=13
> 
> According to regulations introduced in 1949, the officials limited the surface of wristwatch chronometers submitted for observatory testing to 707mm². The height was also limited to 5mm. Circular movements attained this limit at 30mm in diameter and therefore represented the most frequently submitted calibre type.
> 
> E. Jobin constructed the first archaetypal version of the Cal. 135 in 1949. This calibre may be recognised by the pin next to the crown wheel. Underneath the bridge may be found a friction spring for the minute wheel pinion there which is used to eliminate the _Zahnluft _[_no equivalent found, I presume he simply means the connection_]. This calibre is therefore designated as Cal. 135 "_avec isolateur_". Almost all observatory versions of the Cal. 135 may be recognised by this. The subsequent versions for watches destined for the open market lacks this characteristic. Furthermore, all movements tested by an observatory are marked with an "O" underneath the balance wheel."
> 
> My comments: J.P. Sunier can't have been all that hot a regulateur. N=13 is not an especially good grade and only gets you a second or third prize (called "_bulletin de marche_"). At the Concours International in 1948 in Neuchatel, 13.0 was a second but 13.01 would have been third prize, i.e. a borderline performance. The best regulateur Zenith had around that time was probably Charles Fleck. He regularly raked in first prizes, such as the top five (out of the permitted maximum of eight per maker per class) Zenith deck/pocket chronometers at that same contest - the top four also being the top four non-tourbillon movements of all calibres of all makers tested!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thank you for the excellent translation, Hartmut. But what is "Zahnluft"? "Luft" is air: does it mean the friction spring creates a sort of airlock?


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## Hartmut Richter

I presume he means the "space" or "play" between the gears, possibly between the individual teeth of the gears. These never interact in a 100% rigid way, there is always a little "shake" when the system is slack. However, I fail to see what this has to do with the friction spring under the bridge. This should not eliminate the "shake", it should disconect the gear and the pinion altogether.

Hartmut Richter


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## sempervivens

Hartmut Richter said:


> I presume he means the "space" or "play" between the gears, possibly between the individual teeth of the gears. These never interact in a 100% rigid way, there is always a little "shake" when the system is slack. However, I fail to see what this has to do with the friction spring under the bridge. This should not eliminate the "shake", it should disconect the gear and the pinion altogether.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


 He writes "air" and you would like to translate it as "play" ? Quite a liberal translation if you ask me ;-) I think he would have written "jeu" if he meant "play".


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## Hessu

Zahnluft (teeth space) is the space between the teeth of two watchwheels, without it, it is impossible for wheels to roll and move another wheel. It can only be seen in the end of wheelchain, where is no pressure on the wheel. Normal mechanical watch only the shake of hourhand shows it and is not easy to see. In special constructions (like old IWC calibers or Omega 601 and 550-series, in these it's eliminated by friction spring) in second hand and in calibers like Zenith 120 also in minutehand. In quartz watches you see it as shake of secondhand. If you have a wallclock at home, you can test zahnluft by touching the hourhand and see the shake of the hand, that's zahnluft.


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## Hartmut Richter

Thanks for the support. @sempervivens: yes, translations can be a funny thing - but then, I am no specialist in the etymology of English (or German!) words, I just learnt both languages fairly well from scratch and without translating one of them word for word into the other. 

Hartmut Richter


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## sempervivens

Hartmut Richter said:


> Thanks for the support. @sempervivens: yes, translations can be a funny thing - but then, I am no specialist in the etymology of English (or German!) words, I just learnt both languages fairly well from scratch and without translating one of them word for word into the other.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Air = space: it is not such a big logical step after all. Thank you Hartmut and Hessu for explaining the meaning of "Zahnluft".

However, Hartmut, you have to explain what you mean with "I learnt both languages from scratch". Is German not your first language? Then, my friend, that doesn't count as learning a language from scratch! It came to you with the mother milk! And moreover if you learnt German as a baby, and then learnt English in medium school, that would not count as learning English from scratch either, since German and English are closely related languages. If your first language was Chinese, ok, then learning English or German would mean you have to start from scratch


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## Hartmut Richter

Off topic: I am German and German is my native language. I started learning English at school in the "normal" way - you know, grinding vocabulary. It didn't do much for my English proficiency (being bone idle - then and now, that is - didn't help much either!) so my parents kicked me over to the UK to learn it there. I went to school in England and picked up the language just by speaking it every day. However, this way (i.e. without grinding vocabulary), I don't have a "bridge" between the two languages the way most people who learn lists of vocab do. When asked to translate a word, I therefore have to think about it a moment. That's what I meant by learning both languages from scratch.

Hartmut Richter


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## D N Ravenna

Having just been near Munich, I will have to weigh in. ;-) From my experience, learning from scratch is when you do it on your own. That would include watching TV, reading books, having someone explain just what the heck they just said to you. It would take me forever and a day to learn German from scratch, and I know both Spanish and English. Hartmut learned English the way I learned English. We were exposed to it in a formal and informal way for many years. Having German and French speaking grandparents, I can say that, IMO, there is not that much relationship between German and English. Now I have heard enough German that I can pick up a German newspaper and perhaps predict what the article is about; But that is as close as I can get. Having shared bread with Hartmut, I can attest that he knows English about hundred times better than I know German. Not that this helps Zenith any, but it is a nice discussion. Cheers! Dan


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## v76

Wonderful example there, congratulations! Hope you get many years of joy with it, and a really nice write-up as well.


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## mahamithra

Outstanding bit of information. Thanks from all of us who operate in the dark most of the time


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## sempervivens

I've made a small mistake in the list of serial numbers, when I added a recent arrival on the forum to the list, including it in the first production batch of the _second series_: 4217xxx (steel case 8991198).









The case number is correct for the first batch of the second series, but I wrongly guessed the movement number would start with 4217: the correct movement number appeared to be 4405731 (belonging to the third production batch of the second series). So it seems that Zenith put together an older case and dial with a newer movement. It is a beautiful example of a second series movement:










The dial is also very nice:









On the other hand I found some additional information: a _first series _movement was sold this evening in auction. Just a dial and movement, but the serial number (3869929) makes it the third oldest in the list (p. 1); it is a beautiful example of a first series movement:


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## sempervivens

M300raj pointed out to me that there is an example of an early second series caliber 135 with number 4217298 on the pink pages, which I forgot to add to the list; I can't edit the list any more, so here it is: bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Zenith 135


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## Hartmut Richter

I also notice that that one has a bimetallic split balance which the later ones didn't have. Unless that's an indication of a movement for observatory competitions.....

Hartmut Richter


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## sempervivens

Hartmut Richter said:


> I also notice that that one has a bimetallic split balance which the later ones didn't have. Unless that's an indication of a movement for observatory competitions.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


I don't quite understand what you're getting at, Hartmut. The first series movement has a bimetallic, split, screwed balance, and the second series has a monometallic, uncut, screwed balance. I thought that was clear by now. Also, the observatory movements are of the first type. But please do explain the advantages of the bimetallic, split balance vs. the monometallic, uncut balance (or vice versa) b-)


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## Hartmut Richter

Oh, that's Ok then - probably missed something in the general conversation up to date (or more likely too short on time to run through all the posts in the thread again!). As for the advantage of the bimetallic balance, it depends on what it is competing against. A monometallic nickel balance (e.g. ETA "Standard" or "Elabore" movements) is of course inferior to the bimetallic one but the monometallic glucydur balance has made the bimetallic one obsolete. Especially since it is far easier to make than the bimetallic one.

But then, I suspect that's common knowledge too.....

Hartmut Richter


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## sempervivens

Hartmut Richter said:


> Oh, that's Ok then - probably missed something in the general conversation up to date (or more likely too short on time to run through all the posts in the thread again!). As for the advantage of the bimetallic balance, it depends on what it is competing against. A monometallic nickel balance (e.g. ETA "Standard" or "Elabore" movements) is of course inferior to the bimetallic one but the monometallic glucydur balance has made the bimetallic one obsolete. Especially since it is far easier to make than the bimetallic one.
> 
> But then, I suspect that's common knowledge too.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks, Hartmut.

PS This was not so much in the general conversation, but in the beginning of the thread :



> *The first series (1949-1952)* has...* a bimetallic, split, screwed balance*;
> 
> (...)
> 
> *The second series (1953-1960) *has ... a monometallic, uncut, screwed balance;


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## D N Ravenna

The real problem with bi-metallic, split balances is that eventually, the "arms" mis-align. I've dealt with many of them on American PWs, but the truth of the matter is that you never really align them perfectly. Dan


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## georges zaslavsky

congrats on a fantastic watch|>


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## bqtime

here is mine Port Royal for the case + movement ref.

case: 9651915
movt: 4872718


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## sempervivens

Congratulations with that caliber 135 chronometre. It dates to c. 1960/61. The Port Royal series was indeed launched c. 1960. 

ps Please excuse my late reply.


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## sempervivens

Hessu said:


> Sempers, have noticed, the rear end of regulatorpin carrier is not in it's position, inside the shell-like hole. It is either put incorrectly up together or the pin that holds it there is broken.
> A nice one anyway!


A little late, but I thank Hessu for this comment: the regulator was indeed not in its correct position. Fortunately it appeared that the pin that holds it there was not broken and the watchmaker managed to get it back in position.

In the meantime a second caliber 135 has joined the collection: this dates to ca. 1956 and is therefore a second series cal. 135.









This has an original Zenith crown which is more flush with the case and may very well be the original crown.









The screw back is signed 'Zenith Chronometre'. It was probably polished in the past, which makes it difficult to read in a photograph.









And here is the movement, the beautiful cal. 135 in the rhodium plated second edition.









The cases have about the same diameter, ca. 35.5 mm. The second one is maybe 0.5 mm bigger, but it looks bigger because of the thinner bezel.








Zenith cal. 135 first series (1950) and second series (ca. 1956)








Thanks to SilkeN who published the 'Eckerlin papers', we can also add the information that Zenith delivered 4357 pieces of cal. 135 to the market from 1950 until 1956.

The other 6643 pieces of cal. 135 were then delivered to the market in 1957-1967.


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## sabby.marol

Hi,Was luck enough to get hold of 2 Favre Leuba Zenith Chronometer Cal 135 in India...works fantastic... Though initially did not have much knowledge about the caliber or its importance have read enough about it on the net apart from this it's a beautiful piece which is allways adored by people across board's

Sent from my LS-4503 using Tapatalk


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## sabby.marol

Sent from my LS-4503 using Tapatalk


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## sabby.marol

Sent from my LS-4503 using Tapatalk


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## sabby.marol

Sent from my LS-4503 using Tapatalk


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## sempervivens

Congratulations. One of them is indeed a rare first series caliber 135 and dates to ca. 1952. Can you tell what the case inscription refers to?
The other looks like a nice second series cal 135 perhaps from ca. 1956.


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## sabby.marol

Sent from my LS-4503 using Tapatalk


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## sabby.marol

The case inscription states "SANT RAM" 17th May -1954 Case Back Serial No 8890993

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## sabby.marol

No idea who SANT RAM is but would probably a prominent personality for that era.....At that time independent princely States did exist in India .

Sent from my LS-4503 using Tapatalk


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## sempervivens

sabby.marol said:


> The case inscription states "SANT RAM" 17th May -1954 Case Back Serial No 8890993
> 
> Sent from my LS-4503 using Tapatalk


Are you sure it is 8890993 and not 8990993?

Santram is a holy figure and temple in Gujarat. Maybe the first owner got this watch on occasion of a pilgrimage.


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## sabby.marol

You are right the number is 8990993...Typing error....

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## sempervivens

Does the other have a case number too? This could help to date it.


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## sabby.marol

No case back no...The Movement has a number 4518072

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## sabby.marol

Sent from my LS-4503 using Tapatalk


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## sempervivens

The movement number puts it in 1956. The case number was probably polished away and would have been 9306382. Together this dates it to 1956/57.


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## sabby.marol

Thanks for the update Sir....So much of information available it's just outstanding... Probably years of hard work and research... Have collected a couple of vintage watches and would like to more about them....And the forum and sub forum seems to be the result right place...

Sent from my LS-4503 using Tapatalk


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## Acme

Wearing my Holy Grail


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## Dan S

Adding to this wonderful thread on the uncommon occasion of the public appearance of a first-series cal 135 for sale (assuming I understood the thread correctly), in a solid gold case.

fine vintage watches - orologi d'epoca e secondo polso Zenith,Chronometer, vintage, 1957`s, 18kt, gold,watch, cal.135,


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## Hartmut Richter

WOW! - what a present for 30 years' service! I wish I'd get something like that if I manage to clock up that much (I'd have to stay on after formal retirement, though.....).

Hartmut Richter


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## sempervivens

Thanks to the heads-up by Badbackdan, I am now the lucky owner of a *Zenith chronometre* *in 18 k gold with a first series caliber 135*.

I estimate the production date to 1951.

It is one out of only ten first series cal. 135 in my list (production period 1949-1952).

Here are the pics again:








Original dial with some patina.








The back looks better in reality, the dedication is crisp as is the case number. On a Zenith crocodile strap.








Movement number puts it in 1951 among the first seven cal 135's in my book.


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## Hartmut Richter

Oh, you ended up with it! Good man! It certainly looks like a nice watch, never mind the inscription on the back (insciptions never really bothered me much anyway). And it's a first generation 135 with the decoupling mechanism for when it's being wound, I see.....

Hartmut Richter


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## sempervivens

Thank you, Hartmut. The inscription on the back is very well done and for me adds to the beauty. It now feels as if I had done 30 years of service ...


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## Dan S

I think this watch ended up on exactly the right wrist! Very pleased that you found it to be a worthy example. And I agree 100% about the inscription. When it comes to a watch that is so special, it seems trivial to quibble about the presence an interesting and high-quality inscription.


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## sempervivens

Thank you Dan! There's no quibble here.


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## sempervivens

I changed the strap for a vintage crocodile strap with a period correct Zenith buckle. Here are some new pics:


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## sempervivens

This thread would not be complete without a word about the creator of calibre 135, Ephrem Jobin.

He was born in late November 1909 and passed away May 1st 2014 in his 105th year.

He started working for Zenith in 1939.

By 1954 he had created three complete calibres for Zenith, including the mythical cal. 135.

In December 2009 he was honoured by Zenith on the occasion of his 100th birthday.








Source for this picture: a nice article on cal 135 by Ilias Giannopoulos








The centenarian in 2009. Source for this picture: Arcinfo

Ephrem Jobin was passionate about watchmaking and about music (organ).

He was also the first museum conservator of the Le Locle Musée d'horlogerie, Château des Monts, a position which he held for almost 30 years.


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## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Recently I was offered this, which I couldn't refuse:
> 
> View attachment 1078198
> 
> 
> A rare first series cal. 135, all original, from its first owner!
> 
> A Zenith cal. 135 as such is not rare, but a first series is - the more so in all original condition.
> 
> View attachment 1078211
> 
> 
> This nicely aged, original dial, should make all other dials blush, as they look repainted in comparison (many are).
> 
> View attachment 1078212
> 
> 
> The solid but elegant steel case is typical for a cal. 135: the same steel case was still used for later editions.
> 
> View attachment 1078234
> 
> 
> The case looks unpolished, with chamfered edges on the lugs.
> 
> it is a case in three parts.
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078301
> 
> 
> Caseback looks unpolished as well.
> 
> View attachment 1078253
> 
> 
> The crown has the correct logo for the period, although I think it was replaced at some point during service (possibly in 1963), as it doesn't look a perfect fit.
> 
> View attachment 1078220
> 
> 
> Original buckle:
> 
> View attachment 1078303
> 
> 
> This early cal. 135 has chromium plated hands and dial markers. What a contrast with later, more luxurious editions of cal. 135, when half of all cal. 135's were fitted with gold cases!
> 
> View attachment 1078215
> 
> 
> The lettering is also different from later editions. The emphasis here is on the 'chronometre', which has a thicker font than the 'Zenith' name, whereas in later examples the Zenith name appears bigger than the 'chronometre'.
> 
> View attachment 1078217
> 
> 
> But all its beauty is on the inside ...
> 
> View attachment 1078258
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078286
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078261
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078259
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078262
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078263
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078264
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078265
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078267
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078283
> 
> 
> As you can see in this picture the balance is uncut, monometallic, whereas the original balance for a first series cal. 135 was a bimetallic, split balance : I'll explain more about this in the second part of this post. I conclude that the balance was replaced during service with a second series caliber 135 monometallic balance.
> 
> Caseback shows only one service date (1963).
> 
> View attachment 1078260
> 
> 
> Although I'm not worthy of it, I'm of course happy and grateful that I got this: a caliber 135 should be the cornerstone of any collection.
> 
> 
> View attachment 1078285
> 
> 
> Hope you enjoyed this.


Truly wonderful post! Thank you for compiling all this very useful information about caliber 135. Here are some pictures of my Zenith 2000 that according to your identification scheme should be from around 1962-63 and the movement should be in the third series. However, looking at the finishing it looks more like a second series. What do you think?


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## sempervivens

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your Zenith cal. 135. It looks in very good original condition.

Which language is that inscription on the back? (It seems that the Zenith 2000 was particularly succesful in Scandinavian countries.) Does it have a case number between the lugs?

There is not much difference in the finishing of the movement between second and third series, but most typical is the missing 'chronometre' designation on the movement, which is only seen in examples of the third series.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Thank you and great that you give me feedback right away!

The name on the back is most likely Swedish - I picked it up on a Swedish auction site. Yes it has the case number 799A593. I have requested an extract from the Zenith archive, but I guess that you probably know more than them!

Feel free to include the data from me in your database! I have another one incoming that I will post when it has arrived.
Cheers


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## sempervivens

That is interesting, thank you. Keep us updated on the extract from the archives as well. It can be tricky to date a Zenith, even for Zenith themselves. Sometimes different results don't seem to match, as the information that trickles through from the archives shows that the numbers were not always used in a sequential order. I often wonder whether a production date information is based on either the movement number or on the case number or on both. And what do they mean by 'production date'? Is it the day the movement was completed or when it was cased or when the whole watch left the factory? 

Have you given them both case number and movement number? If you have supplied them with only the movement number, then we would know for sure that their information is based on that number only. 

For your watch the case number indicates a much later date than the movement number, suggesting that they kept the movement on the shelves for a few years before it was cased. 

The movement (I would estimate) was produced in 1962/63, but the case number dates it to ca. 1966/67.


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## watchhunterandcollector

I for sure will keep you posted! Yes, I supplied them with both movement and case number. Interesting that it might not have been assembled until 1966! I left it with my watchmaker today for a complete service. He was amazed by the movement and knows that I want it to be preserved as original as possible. No polishing of the case or unnecessary replacements!


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## design-of-the-times

Move at were stamped with serial numbers but may not have been assembled until much later. An extract is the only way to be sure. I have a piece that would suggest 1940s but wasn’t assembled until 1958.


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## watchhunterandcollector

design-of-the-times said:


> Move at were stamped with serial numbers but may not have been assembled until much later. An extract is the only way to be sure. I have a piece that would suggest 1940s but wasn't assembled until 1958.


Yes, I'm looking forward to Zenith getting back to me to be sure about assembly date! It may take a while though since they are closed down at the moment due to Covid-19!


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## Acme

mattiascollin said:


> I for sure will keep you posted! Yes, I supplied them with both movement and case number. Interesting that it might not have been assembled until 1966! I left it with my watchmaker today for a complete service. He was amazed by the movement and knows that I want it to be preserved as original as possible. No polishing of the case or unnecessary replacements!


I have the exact same model and it is dated 1967 (according to the case Nr among the last ones produced). The movement Nr is higher than Yours. A lot of MK3 movements were stored and cased years later, it is not unusual for Zenith (There are examples of movements used after several decades in storage!). Some say that the MK3 movements without the "chronometre" designation are inferior quality, but I don't think so. My MK3 has almost quartz-level accuracy, easily outperforms my COSC Chronomaster. All 135s are great watches, but I especially enjoy the "sleeper" nature of the Zenith 2000, it is a real king ind a beggar's disguise.


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## watchhunterandcollector

Acme said:


> I have the exact same model and it is dated 1967 (according to the case Nr among the last ones produced). The movement Nr is higher than Yours. A lot of MK3 movements were stored and cased years later, it is not unusual for Zenith (There are examples of movements used after several decades in storage!). Some say that the MK3 movements without the "chronometre" designation are inferior quality, but I don't think so. My MK3 has almost quartz-level accuracy, easily outperforms my COSC Chronomaster. All 135s are great watches, but I especially enjoy the "sleeper" nature of the Zenith 2000, it is a real king ind a beggar's disguise.


Thanks for sharing! Interesting to hear about your 2000. I also like the wolf in sheep's clothing design of it! Mine was less than +10s/day despite probably never being opened. I still just left it with my watchmaker for a service; I think it deserves being well taken care of. Do you have any pictures of yours to share?


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## Acme

mattiascollin said:


> Thanks for sharing! Interesting to hear about your 2000. I also like the wolf in sheep's clothing design of it! Mine was less than +10s/day despite probably never being opened. I still just left it with my watchmaker for a service; I think it deserves being well taken care of. Do you have any pictures of yours to share?


After cleaning we managed to regulate it to +-1 s/day. After 2 months on the wrist it still runs less than 10s fast. (Unbelievable. Really.)


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## watchhunterandcollector

Here's my new addition to the database! The movement must be a version 2 but gold plated (no pin!). The serial on the movement 4217646 would put it in approx 1953 according to the list in this fantastic thread. The back is a bit difficult to photograph. Have not found a case serial yet. The condition is just superb!


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## watchhunterandcollector

And again! Sorry!


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## watchhunterandcollector

Acme said:


> After cleaning we managed to regulate it to +-1 s/day. After 2 months on the wrist it still runs less than 10s fast. (Unbelievable. Really.)
> 
> View attachment 15017453
> 
> View attachment 15017459
> 
> View attachment 15017461
> 
> View attachment 15017465


It is a fantastic model and I'm not surprised that it's so accurate. One of the best manual movements ever made!


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## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> That is interesting, thank you. Keep us updated on the extract from the archives as well. It can be tricky to date a Zenith, even for Zenith themselves. Sometimes different results don't seem to match, as the information that trickles through from the archives shows that the numbers were not always used in a sequential order. I often wonder whether a production date information is based on either the movement number or on the case number or on both. And what do they mean by 'production date'? Is it the day the movement was completed or when it was cased or when the whole watch left the factory?
> 
> Have you given them both case number and movement number? If you have supplied them with only the movement number, then we would know for sure that their information is based on that number only.
> 
> For your watch the case number indicates a much later date than the movement number, suggesting that they kept the movement on the shelves for a few years before it was cased.
> 
> The movement (I would estimate) was produced in 1962/63, but the case number dates it to ca. 1966/67.


So here's the answer from Zenith! They couldn't tell me much more than this thread already helped me with;-). Interesting though that it seems very close in delivery time to the 2000 of @Acme described above/below. I guess that settles it even though it would have been nice if they had found my specific watch in the archive. I have no doubt whatsoever that it is genuine, since it matches others described here!
--------------------------------
Thank you for your request for an Extract from the Zenith Registers, for which we have now finalized the research.

Data available in the Zenith Registers in this specific instance, unfortunately does not allow to attest the belonging correspondence between the movement and the case, as well as its casing.

Thus, it is unfortunately not possible to provide you with an Extract from the Zenith Registers, in this specific case.

For that reason, you will be receiving a refund.

Based on further research we have carried out, what we can tell you is that:
Your movement is a caliber 135
Your watch could have been delivered on 1967


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Would be great with an updated list based on the new ones that have been shown in the thread and all the previous work you have done @sempervivens, @Hans61, @nicola1960, and @D N Ravenna ! Without your contributions I would not be the owner of two calibre 135s!
Cheers,
Mattias


----------



## sempervivens

Congratulations on your second Zenith cal. 135. The movement looks nice, but the dial is not original, in the sense that it is a redial (with rather sloppy lettering). The case style is a bit later, ca. 1956, the case number should be on the back below the word 'chronometre', perhaps with a magnifying glass you can still read it it. Interesting combination though of steel with gold accents.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Yes, a definite redial. It looks good, overall but sadly, the Zenith script is somewhat wobbly.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations on your second Zenith cal. 135. The movement looks nice, but the dial is not original, in the sense that it is a redial (with rather sloppy lettering). The case style is a bit later, ca. 1956, the case number should be on the back below the word 'chronometre', perhaps with a magnifying glass you can still read it it. Interesting combination though of steel with gold accents.


Thank you for the assessment! I had a feeling that it was not completely right when it arrived......


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Thank you for your assessment too! A bit disappointing I must say, since I try to find completely original ones......


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

I have now spent hours looking at it, and it is problematic in many ways. Definitely a redial with wobbly text, no Swiss made below 6. The back cover might not be original and potentially laser engraved with no serial below Chronometre. I have mixed feelings since the movement is great and runs ca -5s/d. However I don’t think I will wear this heavily restored or even Franken watch. Might be good to add the movement to your list anyway, since it might turn up again! I thank my friends here and in Klocksnack in Sweden for honest help! I have contacted the seller for a return!


----------



## sempervivens

The back is an original caseback for a cal 135, but whether it is original for this movement and dial, is impossible to tell. It is strange that the case number should be completely worn out. I do take notes, but I can't edit the database in this thread any more.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> The back is an original caseback for a cal 135, but whether it is original for this movement and dial, is impossible to tell. It is strange that the case number should be completely worn out. I do take notes, but I can't edit the database in this thread any more.


Thank you for your quick and honest assessment of my buy! I have been in contact with the seller that did not question that it was a recent redial or that the back lid was laser engraved(!). I will return it to the seller and get a refund. I wonder what will happen with it next? The movement is fantastic, so someone less picky about originality might actually enjoy it. It is a good looking watch, but for me it is spoilt!


----------



## sempervivens

Well that is good news, I'm glad, as today 1st May is a feast day, also in remembrance of Ephrem Jobin, the creator of cal. 135.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

I have added the serial number and noted that the cse serial number is "worn to illegibility". If you want the information removed again or altered, please let me know.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Hartmut Richter said:


> I have added the serial number and noted that the cse serial number is "worn to illegibility". If you want the information removed again or altered, please let me know.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


I think that is the best possible way to handle it! :-! Hope to be able to come back with an unrestored one!

Best,
Mattias


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Hi again 135 lovers!
I just picked this one up. I'm almost certain that it is a redial, but I bought it with open eyes. No sloppy Zenith or Chronometre text, but a rather classy dial that works for me! The case seems authentic, with a serial that would put among the early ones. The movement seems to be early first version based on looks and number! What do you think friends? Please be honest!


----------



## Mobiliere77

Mi dispiace deluderti ma a questa prima serie manca la boccola sotto il treno delle ruote del bariletto ovvero la boccola che distingue le prime dalle seconde serie. Vi allego le foto della mia prima serie che a oggi risulta essere il primo tra i seriali conosciuti

Moderator's translation (via Babelfish): "I'm sorry to disappoint you but this first series lacks the bushing under the train of the wheels of the barrel or the bush that distinguishes the first from the second series. I attach the photos of my first "

PLEASE USE ENGLISH ONLY!


----------



## Mobiliere77

Zenith cal. 135 prima serie


----------



## Mobiliere77

Il Dial è una ristampa e ho notato che è stato cambiato anche il bilanciere in quanto dovrebbe montarne uno tagliato come dimostra la foto del mio che ha comunque un seriale molto vicino

Moderator's translation (via Babelfish): "The Dial is a reprint and I noticed that the balance has also been changed as it should mount one cut as evidenced by the photo of mine that still has a very close serial "

PLEASE USE ENGLISH ONLY!


----------



## CMSgt Bo

Mobiliere77 said:


> Il Dial è una ristampa e ho notato che è stato cambiato anche il bilanciere in quanto dovrebbe montarne uno tagliato come dimostra la foto del mio che ha comunque un seriale molto vicino


We are an international community, but the functional language here is English.


----------



## Mobiliere77

first of all, I apologize for not writing in English. I was saying to the friend who has just purchased the Zenith 135 first series which unfortunately has some problems that are difficult to fix because the bushing is missing (under the gears of the barrel) the balance has been replaced because it should fit a bimetallic cut and the dial is a reprint.
Feedback
Imagehttps://translate.google.com › ...
Risultato web con link ai siti
Google Traduttore


----------



## CMSgt Bo

Mobiliere77 said:


> first of all, I apologize for not writing in English. I was saying to the friend who has just purchased the Zenith 135 first series which unfortunately has some problems that are difficult to fix because the bushing is missing (under the gears of the barrel) the balance has been replaced because it should fit a bimetallic cut and the dial is a reprint.
> Feedback
> Imagehttps://translate.google.com › ...
> Risultato web con link ai siti
> Google Traduttore


No worries, welcome to the community!

Nessun problema, benvenuto nella community!


----------



## sempervivens

Congratulations! It's a pity about the dial, which may be an older redial or replacement dial. Otherwise a fine example of a first series cal 135 in 18 K gold. In fact it may be the oldest known example in a gold case, at least the movement number is. How about the case number?



watchhunterandcollector said:


> Hi again 135 lovers!
> I just picked this one up. I'm almost certain that it is a redial, but I bought it with open eyes. No sloppy Zenith or Chronometre text, but a rather classy dial that works for me! The case seems authentic, with a serial that would put among the early ones. The movement seems to be early first version based on looks and number! What do you think friends? Please be honest!
> View attachment 15105219
> View attachment 15105221
> View attachment 15105223
> View attachment 15105227
> View attachment 15105229
> View attachment 15105233
> View attachment 15105235


----------



## Mobiliere77

Thank you


----------



## sempervivens

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your Zenith cal 135 first series!

It is the oldest known cal 135 movement number in our database, so thank you for posting that.

The dial is however a replacement dial - an original Zenith cal 135 service dial - in a somewhat later style (ca. mid 1950's).

The movement looks in very good condition and with the original balance, as you noticed.

The case looks polished and so overall it seems a nicely refurbished and serviced first series Zenith cal 135 and even the oldest known example, yet it looks like new!

How about the case number: could you share a picture of the back as well?



Mobiliere77 said:


> Zenith cal. 135 prima serie


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Thanks for the comments this far! I forgot to post the back. Here it is!


----------



## Acme

sempervivens said:


> Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your Zenith cal 135 first series!
> 
> It is the oldest known cal 135 movement number in our database, so thank you for posting that.
> 
> The dial is however a replacement dial - an original Zenith cal 135 service dial - in a somewhat later style (ca. mid 1950's).
> 
> The movement looks in very good condition and with the original balance, as you noticed.


Any info on bimetallic vs non-bimetallic balance usage in the 135 series?

Thanks, Acme


----------



## sempervivens

It is mentioned in the beginning of the thread, here.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

I can also mention that I have changed my nickname. You have helped me before with evaluation of two 135:s. The most heavily restored with sloppy text has been returned to the seller! I’m continuing my sampling of 135:s! Cheers


----------



## Hartmut Richter

I have translated the two posts via Babelfish. Please note that any further posts in other languages will be deleted.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## Mobiliere77

*Re: Zenith Cal. 135*

Back

Perfect running condition

Zenith back


----------



## Acme

sempervivens said:


> It is mentioned in the beginning of the thread, here.


This is why I asked. First series supposed to have bimetallic cut balance wheel, but there are examples of MK1s in the thread with uncut balance wheels. These have replacement parts? or transitional movements?


----------



## sempervivens

This is why we have such stickies: so anyone can easily find all the information, without much work or effort, or questions, more often than not it is all there on the first page ;-)


----------



## Acme

sempervivens said:


> This is why we have such stickies: so anyone can easily find all the information, without much work or effort, or questions, more often than not it is all there on the first page ;-)


I have read it through many times. Still it occurs to me that there are numerous examples of MK1s with uncut balance wheels. Is it a common repair to change the balance wheel entirely? I was wondering what is behind all this.


----------



## sempervivens

True, in this thread alone there are two examples of first series cal 135 with uncut balance wheels. Both are well-used watches which have been serviced repeatedly, so it seems likely that their entire balance wheel was changed during service; I doubt on the contrary that they are 'transitional movements' mainly because the first series was made in such a limited production run, and moreover both watches are among the oldest known.


----------



## Acme

sempervivens said:


> True, in this thread alone there are two examples of first series cal 135 with uncut balance wheels. Both are well-used watches which have been serviced repeatedly, so it seems likely that their entire balance wheel was changed during service; I doubt on the contrary that they are 'transitional movements' mainly because the first series was made in such a limited production run, and moreover both watches are among the oldest known.


Thank you, it really makes sense! After searching with Google for movement pictures I have to say that lot of MK1s have uncut balance wheels out there. Maybe not only cut versions were made? Or it was a common repair back then? Nowadays it is not easy nor cheap to aquire a complete balance assembly for a 135.


----------



## sempervivens

That's interesting, but when you say 'a lot of MK1s have uncut balance wheels out there', how many did you find, out of a total of how many MK1s?


----------



## Acme

sempervivens said:


> That's interesting, but when you say 'a lot of MK1s have uncut balance wheels out there', how many did you find, out of a total of how many MK1s?


MK1 is very rare, and some pictures are featuring running movements (difficult to tell balance type), so my observations are far from reliable. I would say every 3rd MK1 seems to have an uncut balance.

UPDATE:

I found 10 MK1 movement pics online (including this thread). 5 of these have cut, 3 have uncut balance wheels. 2 are running so hard to tell.

In addition I can confirm that all competition movements have cut balance wheels, regardless of manufacturing date (even 47xxx)


----------



## sempervivens

Thanks for the research and update. So you found 10 Mk1 movements out of which 4 are shown in this thread. Of the 4 in this thread 2 have cut and 2 have uncut balance wheels. Outside of this thread you found only 1 more with uncut and 3 with cut balance wheels, and 2 which were impossible to tell. Perhaps not enough samples for any big conclusions, but still interesting.


----------



## Acme

sempervivens said:


> Thanks for the research and update. So you found 10 Mk1 movements out of which 4 are shown in this thread. Of the 4 in this thread 2 have cut and 2 have uncut balance wheels. Outside of this thread you found only 1 more with uncut and 3 with cut balance wheels, and 2 which were impossible to tell. Perhaps not enough samples for any big conclusions, but still interesting.


Exactly. As I said it is too little data for big conclusions. However, I took notes on all gold plated 135 movements (simply because they are easier to spot among other movement pictures) and I found 6 goldMK2 movements, all having uncut balance, and 5 completition 135 movements, all having cut balance. So changing the balance wheel may not be that common after all.
After seeing these beautiful movements I really hope that one day I can add a nice MK1 cut - or uncut - to my collection. My MK2 and MK3 deserve an older brother.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations! It's a pity about the dial, which may be an older redial or replacement dial. Otherwise a fine example of a first series cal 135 in 18 K gold. In fact it may be the oldest known example in a gold case, at least the movement number is. How about the case number?


Hi again friends! I found an old dial that I'm thinking of replacing the service dial with. It looks a lot like the one on the early gold one with the back inscription in the thread. The only thing that might be a bit odd is the space between the star and the text. What is your honest opinion?


----------



## sempervivens

Honestly? I think it looks very good and would be a great improvement. Congratulations on your find and let's hope it fits.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Honestly? I think it looks very good and would be a great improvement. Congratulations on your find and let's hope it fits.


Thank you for such quick feedback! I really appreciate all the help I'm getting in this thread and will try to contribute as well. I'll update you on the restoration process!

@Hartmut Richter , please feel free to add it to your master list. Case no is 456208 and the movement serial is 3869965. You have seen the gold case and service dial already. I will most likely exchange it with the one I posted above!
Cheers
Mattias


----------



## Hartmut Richter

watchhunterandcollector said:


> @Hartmut Richter , please feel free to add it to your master list.


Done. Only that it's not my master list, it's sempervivens'. ;-)

Hartmut Richter


----------



## joaot

Re master list there is looking at the 135 for sale in Chrono24. I can give the following references:
* 4251256 (says the seller) and case number 542166 .
* 4663523
* 4743763
* 4518832


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Hartmut Richter said:


> Done. Only that it's not my master list, it's sempervivens'. ;-)
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks then to BOTH you and @sempervivens for creating and curating the list!
/Mattias


----------



## joaot

2 more numbers for the master list. Guys let me know if what am doing this is useless, I don't want to be spamming the forum!

Zenith 2000: 5362145/case number n/a
Zenith 135 Port Royal 4743392/765562


----------



## sempervivens

Case number for the Zenith 2000 is usually between the lugs. The Port Royal can be dated to late 1959 and the Zenith 2000 to early 1962.


----------



## joaot

As suggested by @watchhunterandcollector I am cross-posting pictures of my Zenith 135.
View attachment P1002170.jpg

View attachment Zenith_135_dial.jpg

View attachment Zenith_135_movement.jpg


----------



## sempervivens

Does this also have a case number ?


----------



## joaot

sempervivens said:


> Does this also have a case number ?


It does: 9530030


----------



## sempervivens

Thanks, I'd say that puts it in 1959/60. Lovely dial!


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Back after service now! I'm thrilled;-) @Hartmut Richter could you please add the info to @sempervivens list? Movement serial is 5414998 and the case number between the lugs 799A593. Zenith 2000 back as previously mentioned. This will be my third appearance on this fabulous list! The very early gold one is being serviced as we speak.
This is the best thread ever!


----------



## joaot

I have found this 2 Zenith 135 on Chrono24 (not my watches, not my pictures) and I post them here for @sempervivens master list.
4250637/744D777
3870210/527936


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Transferred to the list. The steel one is probably frankenised: the movement points to 1954 whereas the case serial number is from the late sixties. Unless they stored the movement for all that time.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

joaot said:


> I have found this 2 Zenith 135 on Chrono24 (not my watches, not my pictures) and I post them here for @sempervivens master list.
> 4250637/744D777
> 3870210/527936
> 
> View attachment 15335762
> 
> View attachment 15335767
> 
> View attachment 15335769
> 
> View attachment 15335774
> 
> View attachment 15335776
> 
> View attachment 15335777





Hartmut Richter said:


> Transferred to the list. The steel one is probably frankenised: the movement points to 1954 whereas the case serial number is from the late sixties. Unless they stored the movement for all that time.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


I agree with your assessment! The steel one caught my eye, but as you say that old movement in a Zenith 2000-like case and the NSA bracelet is probably a mix and match by someone creative. The dial could match the movement or what do you think? The gold one looks really nice; an early version 1 in a gold case. Almost as early as mine;-) Gives me goose bumps!


----------



## Hartmut Richter

watchhunterandcollector said:


> I agree with your assessment! The steel one caught my eye, but as you say that old movement in a Zenith 2000-like case and the NSA bracelet is probably a mix and match by someone creative. The dial could match the movement or what do you think? The gold one looks really nice; an early version 1 in a gold case. Almost as early as mine;-) Gives me goose bumps!


Hmmmm. I'm not sure about the dial but the hands seem to match the case more than the movement. The 1950s "sword" hands that I've seen look a little different. Very confusing.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Hartmut Richter said:


> Hmmmm. I'm not sure about the dial but the hands seem to match the case more than the movement. The 1950s "sword" hands that I've seen look a little different. Very confusing.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Yes, there are so many conflicting design attributes in the same watch. I agree, the hands look more like something from a 60s watch. In fact they are almost identical to the hands of my 40T Chronometre in gold from ca 1964 (see attachment).
Important that we try to limit the success for frankens like these;-)
Cheers


----------



## joaot

Found this one in instagram:
4743926


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Added to the list.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## joaot

And another Port Royal (again not mine, not my pictures)
4663400 / 772852


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Also added.

On a side note: I just noticed that the entry "4217397 (gold case)" is the watch featured in Brunner/Pfeiffer-Belli's big, fat, trilingual book "Armbanduhren (Wristwatches/Montres-bracelets)", Page 411. 

Hartmut Richter


----------



## joaot

I also found the following watch in "Wristwatch Chronometers" by Ftitz von Osterhausen (page 196), so I think this watch was presented at an observatory.
Movement 4250915


----------



## joaot

A rose gold 135 (not mine, not my photos). Movement number 4405182. Unfortunately the case number was covered, I wonder why people do that...


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

My second Zenith 2000 just arrived from Finland. Overall in great condition but with some patina on the dial. Calibre 135 movement serial is 5414531 and case number between the lugs is 975357. That would put it directly after my other 2000 in the list;-) Would be very grateful if you @Hartmut Richter add it to the list!


----------



## sempervivens

Congratulations! Two of these!! However I'm a little confused here: isn't this the older one? Didn't the other one have a much later case number?


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations! Two of these!! However I'm a little confused here: isn't this the older one? Didn't the other one have a much later case number?


Many thanks and I'm also a bit confused;-) Earlier movement serial on the new arrival above and case serial in a different format with no letter in the middle. Haven't seen this before on a 2000! However the cases are identical. This probabably means that this is an early cased 2000, before there was a letter in the middle of the serial, or what do you think, @sempervivens ? 1961-62?


----------



## sempervivens

First of all 975357 is not complete as a case number; now I can see in your picture that the last number is probably '1'. This dates it ca. 1963. 

The other one with case number 799A593, dates to ca. second half of 1966.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> First of all 975357 is not complete as a case number; now I can see in your picture that the last number is probably '1'. This dates it ca. 1963.
> 
> The other one with case number 799A593, dates to ca. second half of 1966.


Thanks for sharp eyes and knowledge! Then it all makes perfect sense. 🙏🏻


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> First of all 975357 is not complete as a case number; now I can see in your picture that the last number is probably '1'. This dates it ca. 1963.
> 
> The other one with case number 799A593, dates to ca. second half of 1966.





watchhunterandcollector said:


> Thanks for sharp eyes and knowledge! Then it all makes perfect sense. 🙏🏻


Could you then please update this record with an additional *1 *in the case serial on the master list @Hartmut Richter ? Thank you both for keeping this thread alive and updated. I just love it!

5414531 Zenith 2000 (ca. 1963, steel case, serial number 975357*1* between the lugs)

Hope to be able to contribute again to the list!

All the best / Mattias aka @watchhunterandcollector


----------



## Hartmut Richter

watchhunterandcollector said:


> Could you then please update this record with an additional *1 *in the case serial on the master list @Hartmut Richter?


All done! I did wonder a little at the time.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## joaot

A Zenith 135 I found in IG.
4217431/8991171


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

joaot said:


> A Zenith 135 I found in IG.
> 4217431/8991171
> 
> View attachment 15437736
> 
> 
> View attachment 15437739
> 
> 
> View attachment 15437740
> 
> 
> View attachment 15437741
> 
> 
> View attachment 15437742


I've also followed the restoration of that one! Very nice, but the dial almost looks too clean for me;-)


----------



## joaot

watchhunterandcollector said:


> I've also followed the restoration of that one! Very nice, but the dial almost looks to clean for me;-)


I agree. I does look like a new dial. Still the watch looks amazing.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

joaot said:


> I agree. I does look like a new dial. Still the watch looks amazing.


Yes, I wouldn't mind adding it to my collection;-)


----------



## joaot

Another 135 (found in chrono24):
4743235/9529985


----------



## sempervivens

Nice one, another of the fairly rare gold capped cal 135's.


----------



## Jantjewgm

Hi @*watchhunterandcollector, I see your first series 18k gold 135 Chonometre is on auction as we speak, is that correct? I recognize the dial that you have switched with the service dial, same movement nr and case nr. Im just curious why you would put such a nice watch on for auction. Thank you.*


----------



## bitera

*Recently, my "135" was fully maintained and tested in six directions. Unfortunately, one test failed to keep my watch within five seconds.

The movement number is 4405446

Do you have any good suggestions?*


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Welcome to Watchuseek! I am afraid that there is nothing that *you* can do - it would be up to the watchmaker. If it is a structural problem, it boils down to parts replacement (one or more of balance staff, mainspring, etc.). I would just accept it as it is and maybe wait for the next service - it is a 60+ year old watch, after all!

Hartmut Richter


----------



## bitera

[QUOTE =" bitera，post：53265949，member：1488760"]
View attachment 15803870



bitera said:


> View attachment 15803870
> 
> 
> *Recently, my "135" was fully maintained and tested in six directions. Unfortunately, one test failed to keep my watch within five seconds.
> 
> The movement number is 4405446
> 
> Do you have any good suggestions?*


*Latest achievements:*









*I try to correct the polarization value to close to 0ms, but its performance is worse. Different angles may need different polarization to compensate the travel time accuracy, and the polarization will affect the firing force of the balance wheel.*


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Looks a little like the watch may be badly out of isochonism. You adjust one position and the others get messed up badly. In which case, it will be a professional's job to get the length of the hairspring more in line with the strength of the mainspring and adjust via balance screws and fine adjustment.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Jantjewgm said:


> Hi @*watchhunterandcollector, I see your first series 18k gold 135 Chonometre is on auction as we speak, is that correct? I recognize the dial that you have switched with the service dial, same movement nr and case nr. Im just curious why you would put such a nice watch on for auction. Thank you.*


You spotted this correctly! I needed to thin out a bit to finance other purchases. You can't keep them all!


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

New arrival that is not on the list! Second series movement with serial 4663046. Steel case with screwed and labeled back. Case number on the back 9297436. 36mm I diameter. Seems original except the Omega crown. Just set a record in my timegrapher with -0.1s/d! I think the numbers suggest production in 1956-1957.


----------



## sempervivens

Congratulations, that is beautiful! I've added the numbers to the list.


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations, that is beautiful! I've added the numbers to the list.


Thanks x 2!


----------



## Kahunero

_Moderator's note: The subsequent text was translated from Spanish. This is an English speaking forum - please use that language exclusively!_

Hello, greetings to all members of this forum, I join you in finding information about a new acquisition that I just added to my collection.


----------



## sempervivens

Hi Kahunero, welcome to the forum. Congratulations on this very rare first series cal 135! I've added the numbers to the list.

I would estimate the movement was produced ca. 1951 (based on previous communications by Zenith). The gold case was probably made by Classicor SA (hammerhead 143).


----------



## Kahunero

Thank you!!!


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

New arrival that is not on the list! Rhodium plated movement 4218021, which indicates first run of the second series. Case number 9047931 which I guess would put it around 1954. I really like the case with the substantial bezel. Reminds me of the one in @sempervivens post that started the whole thread!


----------



## Hartmut Richter

Thanks, added to the list.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

Hartmut Richter said:


> Thanks, added to the list.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Great! Thanks!


----------



## sempervivens

Congratulations! Classic case and beautiful original dial!


----------



## watchhunterandcollector

sempervivens said:


> Congratulations! Classic case and beautiful original dial!


Thanks! I knew you would like it;-)


----------



## skand

Hello,
I would like to report to the list of housing numbers and movement of the Port Royal, and by the way show it off. How do you like it, does everything look original ? I struggled with comparisons for two weeks before deciding that this would be mine. I have isolated three different dials, and I'm not sure if not four in this 18k version. I'm already a bit on the subject of vintage watches, but Zenith is not yet known by me. It's very strange that with such a small number of copies produced, the differences in dials are so large. Is there any data on how many gold-cased Port Royals there were ?


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## Hartmut Richter

Wonderful watch and it looks all _bona fide_ to me. I've added the details to the list. At this rate, we might even get all 11000 specimens of this calibre together before we're done.....!

Hartmut Richter


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## skand

Hartmut Richter said:


> Wonderful watch and it looks all _bona fide_ to me. I've added the details to the list. At this rate, we might even get all 11000 specimens of this calibre together before we're done.....!
> 
> Hartmut Richter



Thank you for your kind words about the Port Royal. With the initiative to catalog "living" watches on the cal 135 movement, I have added three Zenith cal 135 watches(two second series and the first) and a Zenith cal 133.8 to my Omega collection within a year. I am going down the path of searching for what Ephrem Jobin created.


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## sempervivens

Congrats! Maybe you could do a post about the dial differences and/or other experiences with the famous cal. 135.


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## skand

sempervivens said:


> Congrats! Maybe you could do a post about the dial differences and/or other experiences with the famous cal. 135.



This refers to the discrepancy of the dials on the Port Royal model. My English is not at the highest level, but when I have a little more time I can describe my research based on photos of other Port Royal watches, as this is the only material I had available. However, I'm already glad that the watch was looked at by experts on this forum and nothing was questioned, as far as originality is concerned.


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