# Grand Seiko finishing really so great?



## Ferdinance

So I've been reading a lot about the superb finishing of GS, with their 'Samurai Zaratsu' polishing. Can anybody provide side-by-side pictures that really point out the superiorities or deficiencies of one over the other? Or explain what makes it so much better? Because what I mostly hear is about the GS being awesome _because,_ of the finishing, and not so much how/why the finishing is superior - what are the perceptible differences?

Replies much appreciated.

And here's a nice one from Basel


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## KazeKei

Is there any shops selling GS beat you? The best is to take a look yourself. 


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## Ferdinance

No there aren't unfortunately.

I'm not even sure though, that if I were to hold a GS in one hand and a Rolex in another I'd notice a difference (comparisons seems to go along these lines... Rolex). I'd probably need a loupe, and somebody to point out to me the differences, then explain to me which required superior craftsmanship.


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## PJ S

You'll tell nothing from that low resolution picture - that's for sure.
Google has plenty of pictures in high definition - so get looking.
In the meantime...


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## Nokie

Lots of threads on this topic via the search engine and a few videos on YouTube as well.


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## sea0bass

The difference of polished surface of GS and other brands at similar price range is like the difference between pure white and off white. Brushed surface on GS has longer strokes and more even.


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## Gerald_D

Yes. It really is that great. 

Examples - 

Kind regards, 

Gerald.


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## Gerald_D

Rolex for comparison. 

It's not even close. The Grand Seiko is in a different league.


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## jscho

wow that picture is just amazing. that fine sword like hand is just insane.


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## Domo

Don't worry about the katana samurai nonsense, that's just marketing stuff for white people. The finishing truly is on another level, the polishing is so very uniform and crisp. GS (and just high-end Seiko is general) polish is like looking into an actual float glass mirror. Also, you have to consider the complexity as well. Their cases have so may facets and chamfers to show off the finishing, so it works on two levels. GS cases are no slab sided Tudor Omega fare.


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## Ferdinance

Gerald_D said:


> Yes. It really is that great.
> 
> Examples -
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Gerald.


Wow, that clarity!

Exactly what I was asking and looking for 

Thanks!!!

If anybody has more super-macro shots of GS and/or other brands that'd be awesome - great for purposes of comparison.


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## Gerald_D

Loads more like that on my Instagram feed (Grand Seikos, Rolex, Patek, JLC, Vacheron, MB&F...) 

@watchdxb

Kind regards, 

Gerald


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## John Price

Gerald,

Your macro photos are amazing! Thanks for sharing.

John


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## Reinhard Immanuel

That macro is stunning! what is the serie of that GS?


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## The Naf

Gerald_D said:


> Yes. It really is that great.
> 
> Examples -
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Gerald.


This deserves two likes but unfortunately I only have one to offer :-D

The Naf


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## Ferdinance

Again, more pictures would be awesome!

Anybody have any, or know where to find _good_ macro shots?


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## Domo

This thread of mine is from a different forum

A closer look at the "9" family...


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## Ferdinance

Thanks


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## Ferdinance

Domo said:


> This thread of mine is from a different forum
> 
> A closer look at the "9" family...


Wow Domo.

Those are _amazing _shots! How did you manage to take shots so up-close?

Now I just need to find some as good for comparison!


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## DoraTheExplorerII

How painful are the scratches to you guys? I've never seen a picture of a well worn GS. Although I suppose most of the show is behind the crystal so it may not matter that much if the nice polishing on the bezel/lugs/bracelet gets scratched.


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## Domo

Ferdinance said:


> Wow Domo.
> 
> Those are _amazing _shots! How did you manage to take shots so up-close?
> 
> Now I just need to find some as good for comparison!


90mm 1:1 macro, 50mm of extension tube and a D5000. I wouldn't go searching for comparisons, you won't like what you find :-d



DoraTheExplorerII said:


> How painful are the scratches to you guys? I've never seen a picture of a well worn GS. Although I suppose most of the show is behind the crystal so it may not matter that much if the nice polishing on the bezel/lugs/bracelet gets scratched.


When I take photos, I naturally use lighting to hide the flaws. ALL by GSes are extremely beat up, with huge rashies and scratches :-(


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## beeman101

While its undeniable as show cased by many op in this thread. I wish they start doing some more complicated dial designs ! Then GS designs will try outshine their competitors.
imho for now they dont do it for me. My Seiko JDM while slightly near the GS range does showcase where and what GS can do ,,,,,


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## Ferdinance

beeman101 said:


> While its undeniable as show cased by many op in this thread. I wish they start doing some more complicated dial designs ! Then GS designs will try outshine their competitors.
> imho for now they dont do it for me. My Seiko JDM while slightly near the GS range does showcase where and what GS can do ,,,,,


I suppose simplicity is part of their ethos. Sure, some people call it cold. But, sometimes I like cold  No doubt when the watches are made to perfection.

The first Seiko in the latest WUS article is another great looking timepiece:
Baselworld 2016: Grand Seiko and Credor Live Report with Photo Gallery - watchuseek.com


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## sea0bass

Complicated design and GS is like chilli source on blue fin tuna sashimi


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## Dragonutity

sea0bass said:


> Complicated design and GS is like chilli source on blue fin tuna sashimi


Lol amazing metaphor. Can't ruin that flavor


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## Domo




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## tinger

You guys have already seen awesome macro shots of these GSes.

I went to party a few years ago.
I noticed more than a few double takes- heads snapping back to my wrist, like a scantily clad Victoria Secrets model walking into a room full of drunken sailors.
The faceted markers and hands flashes/shimmers like a disco ball (ya.. i just dated myself).

oh ya.. i was wearing a Quartz Astron (40th anniversary)


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## bech9

Its fantastic.


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## Tseg

The glow this dial emits under certain lighting conditions is superb.


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## William Ayin

I love all watches for what they are.


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## Kris The Swede

What a great thread. Love the pics and the OP getting all he bargained for.

Would love to see some macros of older GS and KS, to see if they always had this level of finishing compared to their contemporaries.


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## William Ayin

Kris The Swede said:


> What a great thread. Love the pics and the OP getting all he bargained for.
> 
> Would love to see some macros of older GS and KS, to see if they always had this level of finishing compared to their contemporaries.


Photo credit to molle


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## toomuchdamnrum

I'm lucky enough to have a few AD near me to see what the fuss is about and I was definitely impressed. The GS quartz didn't blow me away as a whole due to the lack of heft but the finishing was brilliant. To get a mechanical like the SBGR053 for under 3k is like nothing else on the market


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## jihn

William Ayin said:


> I love all watches for what they are.











Which GS is that? I like the blue of the dial.


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## Mark355

The dial finishing of GS is unparalleled IMO.


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## ieatkows

DoraTheExplorerII said:


> How painful are the scratches to you guys? I've never seen a picture of a well worn GS. Although I suppose most of the show is behind the crystal so it may not matter that much if the nice polishing on the bezel/lugs/bracelet gets scratched.


The first scratch always hurt on every watch - just hurts a lot more on the GS (since it's more obvious due to the finishing).


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## William Ayin

jihn said:


> View attachment 7572978
> 
> 
> Which GS is that? I like the blue of the dial.


SBGA105


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## fld




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## bech9

To my mind their finishing is very much adorable.....Nice!!!


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## Ferdinance

Great pictuers William Ayin.

Not sure about the JLC or AP, but I think I can see on the Rolex, that the hands don't have the same razor-sharp finish/edges as the GS's.

Thanks!


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## bech9

I agree.....Its beautiful and solid.....thank you for posting.


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## igorsfc

Incredible jewel...


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## tinger

You guys should read today's Deployment article on on the platinum GS. 
I knew seiko grew their own quartz crystals.. I what I didnt know is that they grew their own rubies. It takes a watchmaker at the micro studio 45 mins to hand polish each screw

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## KtWUS

Grand Seiko finishing really so great? - Page 3

@William Ayin: Your post is the best comparison post I've seen. Really nails the argument for GS taking its place among the other luxury watches.



Domo said:


> This thread of mine is from a different forum
> 
> A closer look at the "9" family...





Gerald_D said:


> Yes. It really is that great.
> 
> Examples -
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Gerald.


Big kudos to Gerald and Domo too!



DoraTheExplorerII said:


> How painful are the scratches to you guys? I've never seen a picture of a well worn GS. Although I suppose most of the show is behind the crystal so it may not matter that much if the nice polishing on the bezel/lugs/bracelet gets scratched.


I would love to see some well-worn GS watches. I'm convinced that the way a watch ages should be a factor when deciding to purchase!


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## PJ S

tinger said:


> You guys should read today's *Deployant* article on on the platinum GS.


Review: Grand Seiko SBGD001 Spring Drive 8 Day Power Reserve -


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## Whitershadeofpale

My GS smokes any watch I have ever owned. The Longines Hydroconquest is very well appointed with a finish that is great. The Grand Seiko embarrassed it.


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## Emospence

Some of these pics made my eyes go wide..


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## Khanh Le Dinh

Grand seiko is beutiful and excellence finish.


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## EDL7

Wow!


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## nilfire77

jihn said:


> View attachment 7572978
> 
> 
> Which GS is that? I like the blue of the dial.


As mentioned earlier, it's a Limited Edition 57GS reissue SBGA105 with a very rare Caliber 9R15. Some hate the fatty lugs, but I absolutely love it!!! Here's a wrist shot:










Movement shot - Not hand finished, but still damn pretty I would say


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## nilfire77

Here's a closeup on the impeccable indices of my old SBGR061:










Zoomed out:


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## Davidtan

from far is just a "seiko", from near is a "WOW"
















​


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## beeman101

WoW ! i agree with the macros of the above machining work. Superbly executed.


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## Emospence

Those are some absolutely insane close-ups.


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## John Price

Wonderful macro shots! Thanks for sharing those.


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## manofrolex

Davidtan said:


> from far is just a "seiko", from near is a "WOW"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Pretty much perfect nothing more to add really and the 1st pic I believe is sbga071 which I need very badly . Yes it is a need


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## Btreichel87

DoraTheExplorerII said:


> How painful are the scratches to you guys? I've never seen a picture of a well worn GS. Although I suppose most of the show is behind the crystal so it may not matter that much if the nice polishing on the bezel/lugs/bracelet gets scratched.


Search for the thread titled "daily wear? You decide". A guy shows the abuse the GS can take. The watch still looks great. But a good amount of scuffs. Also on the last page of this thread there's a link to the Zaratsu Journey, am which showcases the difference in polishing between seiko USA and seiko Japan. Quite remarkable honestly. USA does the job that you'd expect, Japan makes it looks like a new watch. But unfortunately you get what you pay for. Japan polishing I think is double the fee. Interesting nonetheless.


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## vintage navitimer

Grand Seiko finishing really so great? In one word, yes.


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## nilfire77

Gerald_D said:


> Yes. It really is that great.
> 
> Examples -
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Gerald.


Hey Gerald, you posted too little of your GS close ups.. These are yours too right?


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## michael8238

Pretty much everything from GS is very chunky. They don't have the most delicate proportion. Maybe that's why from a pic they don't instantly scream utter craftsmanship. HOWEVER, it's a different story in person. The finish is easily on par with all the big Swiss/German names, if not better, especially within that price range.


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## Flatspotter

My SGBX063.


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## Oblongata

Having recently acquired a GS. I can see the differences in quality compared to the highly regarded SARB035.

What I've noticed thus fa when compared to my SARB:
-"Rainbow effect" from the polished indices
-Better bracelet
-The font "Grand Seiko" looks baked in while the "GS" and "Seiko" logos pop out
-Better finishing on the hands


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## tzakiel

It was really cool to see the macro shots... thanks. I need a macro lens...


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## Khanh Le Dinh

I love My SBGR061
GR600213 by songoku1981, on Flickr

GR600200-HDR by songoku1981, on Flickr


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## dkbs

The answer should be yes. Dials of watches at GS price range normally are printed by tampo printer, not engraved. Because technology does not allow batch produce of engraved dials until very recent years.

However, Grand Seiko's dial and case are not made by Seiko in house. It is made by Hayashi Seiki.

????????????????????????????????



Ferdinance said:


> So I've been reading a lot about the superb finishing of GS, with their 'Samurai Zaratsu' polishing. Can anybody provide side-by-side pictures that really point out the superiorities or deficiencies of one over the other? Or explain what makes it so much better? Because what I mostly hear is about the GS being awesome _because,_ of the finishing, and not so much how/why the finishing is superior - what are the perceptible differences?
> 
> Replies much appreciated.
> 
> And here's a nice one from Basel
> View attachment 7513818


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## Watchyman

dkbs said:


> Grand Seiko's dial and case are not made by Seiko in house. It is made by Hayashi Seiki.


 So Seiki makes Seiko's dials? is it the little brother???


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## William Ayin

dkbs said:


> The answer should be yes. Dials of watches at GS price range normally are printed by tampo printer, not engraved. Because technology does not allow batch produce of engraved dials until very recent years.
> 
> However, Grand Seiko's dial and case are not made by Seiko in house. It is made by Hayashi Seiki.
> 
> ????????????????????????????????


Grand Seiko's cases are made by Seiko in the same sense that Grand Seiko spring drives are made by Epson.


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## William Ayin

A bit off topic but does anyone know what the model of this dive watch is on their English website?


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## dkbs

Brightz Phoenix mechanical SAGQ (4S movement) and SAGH (6S movement) series. For some reason Seiko phased out all 4S and 6S movements and replaced it with 7R based movement (4R,6R,8R).



William Ayin said:


> A bit off topic but does anyone know what the model of this dive watch is on their English website?
> 
> View attachment 8653722


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## William Ayin

thanks man!


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## mark.wilo13

Can't stop starring at mine









Mark Williams on IPhone Taptalk


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## Ovalteenie

Watchyman said:


> So Seiki makes Seiko's dials? is it the little brother???


Majority-owned by Seiko. And make cases only for Seiko. That makes it an effective subsidiary and in-house for Seiko.


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## dkbs

Seiki makes cases for all Japanese watch makers, including Citizen's "The Citizen", "Attesa", and even some Casio cases.

Watch making is a dying industry, Seiki cannot even make a living by making "cases only for Seiko". Keep in mind, Grand Seiko production barely hit 3000 pieces per year.



Ovalteenie said:


> Majority-owned by Seiko. And make cases only for Seiko. That makes it an effective subsidiary and in-house for Seiko.


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## Ahriman4891

dkbs said:


> Keep in mind, Grand Seiko production barely hit 3000 pieces per year.


I thought they were up to 15k/year or so as of late?


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## Ovalteenie

dkbs said:


> Seiki makes cases for all Japanese watch makers, including Citizen's "The Citizen", "Attesa", and even some Casio cases.
> 
> Watch making is a dying industry, Seiki cannot even make a living by making "cases only for Seiko". Keep in mind, Grand Seiko production barely hit 3000 pieces per year.


So Mr Hattori is telling lies? :-\



> TZ: Is Hayashi Seiki (the company that makes Grand Seiko cases) a subsidiary of the Seiko Watch Corp.? Does it only make GS cases for Seiko Instruments or also for Seiko Epson?
> 
> Seiko: Yes. The Seiko Group is the majority shareholder. The company makes cases only for Seiko Instruments.
> 
> http://www.timezone.com/2015/01/14/...responds-to-the-seiko-forum-by-james-dowling/


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## dkbs

No, He was answering the question regarding Seiko Instruments and Seiko Epson. He means "The company makes cases for Seiko Instruments, not Seiko Epson."



Ovalteenie said:


> So Mr Hattori is telling lies? :-\


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## Ovalteenie

dkbs said:


> No, He was answering the question regarding Seiko Instruments and Seiko Epson. He means "The company makes cases for Seiko Instruments, not Seiko Epson."


I see the nuance. But as they are a Seiko majority-owned subsidiary, therefore GS cases are in-house. The suggestion was that they are not.


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## PJ S

Ahriman4891 said:


> I thought they were up to 15k/year or so as of late?


At least, if not well past it.
Bear in mind though, this was the number of mechanical movement models (which includes Spring Drive and manual wound, and the Galantes, Credors, and Prospex, like the MM600).
It does not include the battery powered quartz models from Credor and Grand Seiko, which I've no idea how many that would be.


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## Ahriman4891

Thanks. That's an interesting wrinkle that they don't count pure quartz.


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## urbino

tinger said:


> I went to party a few years ago.
> I noticed more than a few double takes- heads snapping back to my wrist, like a scantily clad Victoria Secrets model walking into a room full of drunken sailors.
> The faceted markers and hands flashes/shimmers like a disco ball (ya.. i just dated myself).


I'm very much late to this party and catching up, but I've had this same thing happen at the office. I'd venture to say nobody I know is even aware Grand Seiko exists, so people think, "Oh, a Seiko," and then my wrist moves or the light shifts or whatever, and their eyes go straight back to the watch. The cognitive dissonance is amusing.


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## mui.richard

Gerald_D said:


> Loads more like that on my Instagram feed (Grand Seikos, Rolex, Patek, JLC, Vacheron, MB&F...)
> 
> @watchdxb
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Gerald


I just have to ask if you don't mind...do you use a medium format digital back setup for these photos? They are stunning in detail!

Sent from my F8132 using Tapatalk


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## Boomerdw

Not my SBGX119, sorry for unable to post a picture but a good one can be found at Seyiajapan. Be sure to click a few times on the picture to get a closer look.

This model is anything but chunky!


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## whineboy

I like that watch - the case style looks to be the same as the handwound SBGW031/035/049 and larger SBGR061.
Great face!


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## Schussnik

The attention to details, the quality and the level of finish is indeed incredible when it comes to Grand Seiko. Examples of my SBGR083 below


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## Schussnik

And in different lighting conditions


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## T1meout

The foto below is borrowed from post #56 on page 6.
As some of you might know I recently bought this watch, the SBGW047.
I always thought that the black text was printed, but upon closer inspection after enlargement of the foto, one will note that actually the black lettering on the dial is applied and not printed, as the shadowing below the lettering clearly shows. Simply baffling.


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## chris slack

to the naked eye it is no better than any good quality watch,under high magnification it looks spectacular.the question should be,what is the point of that level of finishing ?


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## PJ S

^
A variety of reasons, but mainly to showcase what the craftsmen (and women) can achieve, and to provide visual pleasure to the owner.
Given a Grand Seiko isn’t bought to appease others’ perceptions of whether you’ve made it or not (unlike all that a Rolex conveys to them), then as a personal possession, it’s bought to admire the extra effort made and lengths taken in its manufacturing.


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## KtWUS

chris slack said:


> to the naked eye it is no better than any good quality watch,under high magnification it looks spectacular.the question should be,what is the point of that level of finishing ?


I think there is a subtle difference even to the naked eye. The polishing on the applied indices and hands dial-side makes a difference compared to other watches I've seen in that broad price range.


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## Gerald_D

mui.richard said:


> I just have to ask if you don't mind...do you use a medium format digital back setup for these photos? They are stunning in detail!
> 
> Sent from my F8132 using Tapatalk


Oops. A bit late answering this!

Yes, I do


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## mui.richard

Gerald_D said:


> Oops. A bit late answering this!
> 
> Yes, I do


It figures. 

a watch is meant to be worn


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## ten13th

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/with-the-seiko-eichi-ii-versus-dufour-and-ferrier

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eblackmo

Yes


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## Watchseeker27

My friend keeps trying to get me to get either a rolex or an Omega, but I keep getting pulled to GS - in large part it's because to me there is a qualitative difference between the look and finishing of a GS and other watches around the same price point, and even many in higher price brackets.


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## Allan_de_dub

Watchseeker27 said:


> My friend keeps trying to get me to get either a rolex or an Omega, but I keep getting pulled to GS - in large part it's because to me there is a qualitative difference between the look and finishing of a GS and other watches around the same price point, and even many in higher price brackets.


It can be argued that the Swiss have more interesting designs but I like GS finishing better as well; it makes the other watches look flat in comparison.


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## Greek6486

Go to your local AD and check any Grand Seiko out in person.... looking at the finish online will accomplish nothing (sorry if I'm late to the thread!) Even the quartz watches get the great zaratsu on them!


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## Eran

chris slack said:


> to the naked eye it is no better than any good quality watch,under high magnification it looks spectacular.the question should be,what is the point of that level of finishing ?


Basic assumption is not correct - even to the naked eye it actually does look better. Even if you cannot immediately pinpoint what it is that makes it look different, and a magnifying glass might be needed to spot the precise elements at work here, the eye and your brain still capture the impression of quality as a whole, and can appreciate it. There is something about the crispness of the Grand Seiko, it is like you've been wearing glasses and have not changed them for too many years - then you get a new pair and suddenly everything takes on a higher level of clarity.


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## princent

Very very nice pictures!


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## Dankoh69

GS's attention to details and quality is superb.


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