# Suunto Ambit FW1.8.6 is out !!



## beebox

Downloading it now:-!


Suunto Ambit 1.8
--------------------------------- 
Additions and new features: - 

Route navigation visualisation on screen:
Full view of the whole route and zoom view for closer details - 

Support for 5 new languages: Finnish, Swedish, Italian, Dutch and Portuguese - 

Chrono, that can be used without accessing exercise modes, has been added - 

New backlight mode in which backlight goes on/off by press of the backligh button has been added - 

New GPS coordinate systems added as follows: 
* British (BNG) * Finnish (ETRS-TM35FIN) * Finnish (KKJ) * Irish (IG) * Swedish (RT90) * Swiss (CH1903) * UTM NAD27 Alaska * UTM NAD27 Conus * UTM NAD83 - 

GPS time keeping feature added: This feature keeps the minutes of the Ambit in correct time Improvements: - 
Changing the backlight mode in the settings window doesn’t change the setting anymore before that setting window is exited - 

When searching for the POD(s) and/or HR belt there’s now a “later” option available: 
You can start the exercise without waiting for the POD(s) and/or the belt to be found first. - 

Improvements in how GPS fix readiness percentages are shown


----------



## cobrapa

That could use some serious formatting. ;-) Thanks though!


----------



## srwilson

Where was this info taken from?


----------



## Hrti

Early back from work just in time for the update  Downloading now.

Changelog here: http://d1c229iib3zm7m.cloudfront.net/release_notes/SuuntoAmbit_ReleaseNotes.txt


----------



## Mystro

Suunto Ambit 1.8
---------------------------------

Additions and new features:

-	Route navigation visualisation on screen: Full view of the whole route and zoom view for closer details
-	Support for 5 new languages: Finnish, Swedish, Italian, Dutch and Portuguese
-	Chrono, that can be used without accessing exercise modes, has been added
-	New backlight mode in which backlight goes on/off by press of the backligh button has been added
-	New GPS coordinate systems added as follows:
* British (BNG) 
* Finnish (ETRS-TM35FIN) 
* Finnish (KKJ) 
* Irish (IG) 
* Swedish (RT90) 
* Swiss (CH1903) 
* UTM NAD27 Alaska 
* UTM NAD27 Conus 
* UTM NAD83 
-	GPS time keeping feature added: This feature keeps the minutes of the Ambit in correct time

Improvements:

-	Changing the backlight mode in the settings window doesn’t change the setting anymore before that setting window is exited
-	When searching for the POD(s) and/or HR belt there’s now a “later” option available: You can start the exercise without waiting for the POD(s) and/or the belt to be found first.
-	Improvements in how GPS fix readiness percentages are shown
-	Distance calculation improvements


----------



## or_watching

Mystro said:


> Suunto Ambit 1.8
> Improvements:
> - Distance calculation improvements


ambit_cracker, are you listening?


----------



## srwilson

No mention of implementing the auto-pause or fixing the Pause button bug inserting a unwanted lap into a move and keeping the timer running. I was really hoping they would address that. Oh maybe next update. 

Wouldn't it be nice to allow the user to have control of how certain things function? Maybe in November!!!!


----------



## Mystro

Now if there only a updated menu explaining how to use these new features. I turned on the GPS time sync in the general menu. I then changed my time to a incorect time and then turned on the GPS. The time didn't update to the correct time after the SAT lock????

Switch the backlight over to toggle in the general menu. Now your lower right button is a constant on/off switch for your backlight. Turn your brightness up to 100% an you have a readable night light.

Turn the Stopwatch on in the upper right button. Now you have a stopwatch in main displays. Cool thing is you can change the sub display to time and you can just leave it there.


----------



## cobrapa

Maybe it's smart and only does it if you haven't set it to some crazy value! :-s

Or maybe there are still bugs. haha.


----------



## martowl

I like the navigation features




















Black screen looks better but does not photograph as well. When you have selected navigation and you exit to a different screen the GPS turns off!!!! Saves battery and then turns back on when you enter the navigation screen. That is a great idea and I am not sure I would have thought of that. So if you are simply using for navigation and don't record a route the battery should last a long time.


----------



## Mystro

Does the map ony show up in a route or does it show up in navigate to a POI?? The instant off/on GPS signal while navigating is brilliant. It will save me a lot of battery life and button pushes in the woods.


----------



## srwilson

New PDF is out.http://ns.suunto.com/pdf/SuuntoAmbit/1.8/Suunto_Ambit_1.8_SW_Update_EN.pdf


----------



## martowl

Mystro said:


> Does the map ony show up in a route or does it show up in navigate to a POI?? The instant off/on GPS signal while navigating is brilliant. It will save me a lot of battery life and button pushes in the woods.


The Map will show with Navigate to POI but no route. I had a route about 20 miles away and it showed my arrowhead and a teeny tiny route up in the corner of the screen. the dst screen showed 21 miles to the first waypoint, which I selected to start. I don't think the routes will work well without at least a begin and end waypoint. The zoom view is accessed with the view button, you can see the caret in the first screen, the second hit to the view button takes you to the POI navigation screen.


----------



## Joakim Agren

Finally this update is here. I have the Ambit waiting for me on the Post office and I will collect it soon. Will be nice to get this update right away when I start using it, could not have timed this update any better for me.

One thing that puzzles me tough is this claim that only the minutes will be adjusted by GPS time sync. The entire purpose of GPS time sync is atomic precision and not minute precision. Can someone here test this time sync function?

Will it adjust to match atomic time or only the minutes?


----------



## cleanton

How to enable "Route navigation visualisation on screen" ?


----------



## martowl

cleanton said:


> How to enable "Route navigation visualisation on screen" ?


You need to have a route uploaded, go to Navigation, select your route and start by selecting a waypoint. Once the GPS is activated you will see the route on your Ambit screen.


----------



## Vigge

martowl said:


> You need to have a route uploaded, go to Navigation, select your route and start by selecting a waypoint. Once the GPS is activated you will see the route on your Ambit screen.


And as I dont have time to test tonight, how do you use the route navigation while on a workout? Can u select the route as a training exercise/move?


----------



## JPfeuffer

Can't wait to update!


----------



## Mystro

I cant figure out how to even get the GPS time sync to work?? 
Anyone figure this out yet???....Kudos for Suunto releasing a operation sheet for these new features....:roll:


Joakim Agren said:


> One thing that puzzles me tough is this claim that only the minutes will be adjusted by GPS time sync. The entire purpose of GPS time sync is atomic precision and not minute precision. Can someone here test this time sync function?
> 
> Will it adjust to match atomic time or only the minutes?


----------



## martowl

Vigge said:


> And as I dont have time to test tonight, how do you use the route navigation while on a workout? Can u select the route as a training exercise/move?


Yes, you can start an exercise and then select Navigation and go. When you select Navigation, it will add screens to your screens already selected in Movescount for that exercise. These additional screens will be the Nav screens. You can then simply scroll through what you have. I have used this option with the 1.5 release running in the mountains to help me find summits, trails, and passes in off trail sections. Having the route will be extremely helpful now.


----------



## or_watching

Mystro said:


> I cant figure out how to even get the GPS time sync to work??
> Anyone figure this out yet???....Kudos for Suunto releasing a operation sheet for these new features....:roll: Get with it Suunto, I expect a little better organization in releasing a operation update sheet when you release new features.


Hi.
It worked for me. I think.
After 1.8.6 update, I set GPS Timekeeping on.
Since the watch was ontime to start, I mis-adjusted it by changing the minutes (which also resets the seconds to :00) before doing my first GPS acquisition. It was then off by 1m47s.
I got a GPS signal (using Location menu).
It was then on time within 1 second.

I tried it again, but found that the minutes could not be manually changed when GPS Timekeeping was On.
So aside from the very first time above), to manually change the minutes you need to turn GPS Timekeeping Off.

other notes
- I didn't fiddle with the hours... so I don't know yet what GPS Timekeeping does with those. Probably just leaves it alone.
- The lock-out on minutes with GPS Timekeeping On maybe be an issue for those folks who live in "half hour" time zones.


----------



## hansem

Love the map on screen, just too bad its such a large zoom 1km or 500m, thats too little zoom to use for running.

Hope the add more zooms.


----------



## Mystro

GPS Timekeeping does not work for me. Everyone better check theirs. This could be the first bug...I have reset the GPS and done everything I can think of and it will not GPS Time synch.


----------



## jimmijames73

Joakim Agren said:


> One thing that puzzles me tough is this claim that only the minutes will be adjusted by GPS time sync. The entire purpose of GPS time sync is atomic precision and not minute precision. Can someone here test this time sync function?
> 
> Will it adjust to match atomic time or only the minutes?


I haven't had a chance to update the firmware and test, but my guess is that the sync would update minutes and seconds, but not the hour which would need to be manually updated for the correct time zone and daylight savings.


----------



## jimmijames73

It may be more a Movescount thing, rather than the firmware, but I was disappointed to see that we are still stuck with only 1sec or 60sec GPS recording intervals. Please Suunto give us some intermediate options!


----------



## martowl

hansem said:


> Love the map on screen, just too bad its such a large zoom 1km or 500m, thats too little zoom to use for running.
> 
> Hope the add more zooms.


I disagree, most of the time I plan on using the overview as I should have a general idea of where I am running. I cannot constantly keep looking at the watch. When I am attempting to find a trail or a location that may be difficult to see I would typically use a waypoint and follow this as it is much more useful than the map overview. I used this when running on East Coast wooded trails without the map function. I marked a waypoint at a trail junction that was darn near invisible and kept running. On my way back I activated Navigate and when my Ambit told me I was close, I slowed down and when the waypoint beeped I found the hidden trail junction in the trees. I would have had a lot of difficulty finding my way back on these unfamiliar trails without this feature. I also used it to plan a longer run 18 miles in the same area and marked a waypoint at an intersection to keep me from taking the wrong trail, which I did anyway. A few hundred feet in the wrong direction showed me heading away from my next waypoint. I backtracked and went the direction I was intending. I think the maps would have been useful here as I would have seen myself off course earlier. I cannot imagine running while looking at my watch trying to follow a route. I end up tripping on rocks and roots enough already.

My 2 cents worth.


----------



## Mystro

O.K, I got my Ambit to Time synch with the GPS. I put the watch in sleep mode and then reset the GPS. I also connected it to movescout a few times adjusting its internal general setting. I am not sure what did it or why it was acting flakey but it seems to be working now. Keep an eye on this feature and test it after you upgrade. *FYI, the GPS time synch does synch the seconds as well. Your time will not synch to your computers time if GPS Timekeeper is set to on*

*7.2 Using GPS timekeeping*
GPS timekeeping corrects the offset between your Suunto Ambit and the GPS
time. GPS timekeeping corrects the time automatically once a day, or after you
have adjusted the time manually. Also the dual time is corrected.
NOTE: GPS timekeeping corrects the minutes and seconds, but not the hours.
*GPS timekeeping corrects the time accurately, if it is less than 7.5 minutes
wrong. If the time is wrong more than that, GPS timekeeping corrects it to the
closest 15 minutes.*
To activate GPS timekeeping:
1. Keep [Next] pressed to enter the options menu.
2. Press [Next] to enter GENERAL.
3. Scroll to Time/date and then to GPS timekeeping using [Start Stop]. Enter
with [Next].
4. Set GPS timekeeping On with [Start Stop] or [Light Lock]. Accept with [Next


----------



## eeun

Updated 1.8 manual is available

http://ns.suunto.com/Manuals/Ambit/Userguides/Suunto_Ambit_UserGuide_EN.pdf

Edit: I see someone else added this already. Oops.


----------



## or_watching

Mystro said:


> O.K, I got my Ambit to Time synch with the GPS.
> *FYI, the GPS time synch does synch the seconds as well. *


Good!

I guess now it makes sense to take this Release note literally:
_"GPS time keeping feature added: This feature keeps the minutes of the Ambit in correct time"_

Of course the seconds need to be right for the minutes to be right.


----------



## or_watching

eeun said:


> Updated 1.8 manual is available
> 
> http://ns.suunto.com/Manuals/Ambit/Userguides/Suunto_Ambit_UserGuide_EN.pdf


Same day!!! Exceeding my expectations.

Addressing the concern for those folks in crazy non-hour time zones
_"GPS timekeeping corrects the time accurately, if it is less than 7.5 minutes wrong. If the time is wrong more than that, GPS timekeeping corrects it to the closest 15 minutes."_

Thankfully the nav map is explained pretty well.

But, AFAIK, no display of ones own track. :-( I expected a new "map" screen to be an option in Movescount. Not that tiny screen tracks are fantastic, but when not navigating a pre-defined route, I'd expected to see POIs on a map next to my own track.

In Movescount I note couple things (maybe not all news)
Route Tool: now has a Copy/Duplicate route button. Handy!
Backlight drop down does not include the new Toggle (aka Continuous) option in the watch.
I can't see yet how to get/download any shared routes. --*edit *--> Easy = Community - Get Stuff - Routes

My First Day armchair summary of 1.8: Solid single that moved the runner to 3rd base. No home run on the Map/Nav/Track side. I just wish I knew if we're in the 4th inning or 8th inning. 
(and my favorite feature is actually the Light toggle... now that it's dark in the mornings when I run, I'll use this all the time. Simple thing but supremely practical for me.)


----------



## bowesmana

Updated this morning and created a new route for my dog walk to test out the map. I just mapped the first 1.5km and uploaded the route and off I went.

First odd thing. See this map view







What's with the 1000km??? It looks like it's telling me B is 12000km away.

The zoom button took me to 500m, which is as the manual describes. I noticed I had not specifically set the last WP to 'End', so did that but it makes no difference.


----------



## bowesmana

I had another route in the watch which was in California - long way from Sydney, so thought that it might be confused with the end point, so I deleted that bit it made no difference.

I took an existing 13km route and pushed that to the watch and that has the same single straight line and 1000km display with the tiny blob for the scale indicator.

I tried these routes both in exercise mode and navigate only mode.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?


----------



## Mystro

Who wants to be the first one to see how long the battery will last with the backlight on constant at 30%?? One of you night runners have gotta test it.


----------



## icuriosity

bowesmana said:


> Updated this morning and created a new route for my dog walk to test out the map. I just mapped the first 1.5km and uploaded the route and off I went.
> 
> First odd thing. See this map view
> View attachment 832958
> 
> What's with the 1000km??? It looks like it's telling me B is 12000km away.
> 
> The zoom button took me to 500m, which is as the manual describes. I noticed I had not specifically set the last WP to 'End', so did that but it makes no difference.


I have exactly the same problem as well (Melbourne, Australia route).
Maybe all the old routes have this problem.
I will try to create new route and see if this makes any different.

Update:
Created this route with Movescount's route planner: http://www.movescount.com/routes/route156864-OW-Virginia_Park.

Pushed this to the watch and still having the same problem.
Zoom-in view doesn't look anything like the map! See attached image.


----------



## roots-n-rocks

martowl said:


> Yes, you can start an exercise and then select Navigation and go. When you select Navigation, it will add screens to your screens already selected in Movescount for that exercise. These additional screens will be the Nav screens. You can then simply scroll through what you have. I have used this option with the 1.5 release running in the mountains to help me find summits, trails, and passes in off trail sections. Having the route will be extremely helpful now.


Looks like I picked the right time to start playing around with Routes/Waypoints, etc. 
Up until now I've only used the basic data recording functions of the watch.

So, needless to say, I have some questions. 

On Sunday I ran one 12.5 mile loop of the course of my upcoming 50 miler. (the race is 4 loops.)
I ran it with the fenix and saved the GPX file to my desktop. Tonight I imported it into the MC route planner.
I had to use the "Remove Points" function to get the route down below 1000 points, and the I had to "step back" a bunch of times, because I ran a few extra miles
after finishing the loop.

here's a link to the route on MC

Now I've got the route down to 700ish points and onto my Ambit.

Here's where I get confused.

I don't know how useful having the route on the watch is if I don't know how to use it to tell me when to turn. Do I need to set alerts at all of the trail intersections?
If so, how do I know where those intersections are? You can see on the map that the State Forest is just a big green blob with no trail markings. So how do I know along the route where
trail intersections are? Is it more ideal to create the route in the field and set waypoints at each intersection?

I'll start with just those questions. I'm sure the answers will lead me to many more!


----------



## or_watching

icuriosity said:


> I have exactly the same problem as well (Melbourne, Australia route).
> Maybe all the old routes have this problem.
> I will try to create new route and see if this makes any different.
> 
> Update:
> Created this route with Movescount's route planner: OW-Virginia Park 1.11 km - Route at Movescount.com.
> 
> Pushed this to the watch and still having the same problem.
> Zoom-in view doesn't look anything like the map! See attached image.
> View attachment 833029


I have same problem. I'm in the US. 
Zoom in and out maps have crazy wrong lines, and a few correct segments. But fully unusable.







shooting off to the right a totally random line off to nowhere.






(that apparent left turn should be a right turn)






I'm a mile away from the route... no clue what those lines are






1 pixel = 500 miles in the Zoom out map.

POIs on the zoom in map are fine. And POIs update to the 'nearest' when I m moving.

The waypoint nav screen is fine, and actual navigation by it is fine.


----------



## paduncan

Sweet! Everything works A.O.K for me.


----------



## martowl

roots-n-rocks said:


> Looks like I picked the right time to start playing around with Routes/Waypoints, etc.
> Up until now I've only used the basic data recording functions of the watch.
> 
> So, needless to say, I have some questions.
> 
> On Sunday I ran one 12.5 mile loop of the course of my upcoming 50 miler. (the race is 4 loops.)
> I ran it with the fenix and saved the GPX file to my desktop. Tonight I imported it into the MC route planner.
> I had to use the "Remove Points" function to get the route down below 1000 points, and the I had to "step back" a bunch of times, because I ran a few extra miles
> after finishing the loop.
> 
> here's a link to the route on MC
> 
> Now I've got the route down to 700ish points and onto my Ambit.
> 
> Here's where I get confused.
> 
> I don't know how useful having the route on the watch is if I don't know how to use it to tell me when to turn. Do I need to set alerts at all of the trail intersections?
> If so, how do I know where those intersections are? You can see on the map that the State Forest is just a big green blob with no trail markings. So how do I know along the route where
> trail intersections are? Is it more ideal to create the route in the field and set waypoints at each intersection?
> 
> I'll start with just those questions. I'm sure the answers will lead me to many more!


i agree with you, you need waypoints. Here is how I draw my routes (I have asked the Movescount folks to implement TOPO maps). I use Trimble it is free and syncs with my iPad and iPhone. The website is here and you can import the track you made with the Ambit or draw one. Note where your trail intersections are either visually or by copying lat/long. Export the route from Trimble into Movescount and add your waypoints in Movescount. You can add these either using lat/long or visually if you can see the junctions. Most of my stuff is above treeline so the latter works for me. I have not found a way to import waypoints into MC yet but I am trying. Good luck.


----------



## martowl

or_watching said:


> I have same problem. I'm in the US.
> Zoom in and out maps have crazy wrong lines, and a few correct segments. But fully unusable.
> 
> Zoom out scale is 500 miles per pixel.
> 
> POIs on the zoom in map are fine.
> And update the 'nearest' when I m moving.
> 
> The waypoint nav screen is fine, and actual navigation by it is fine.


I had a similar issue occur when you are a long distance from your route. The Ambit will mark where you are currently, show the route as a tiny squiggle in the corner and tell you how far you are from the route. You need to draw or import a route that is where you are, then it works appropriately as you can see in my photos.


----------



## roots-n-rocks

martowl said:


> i agree with you, you need waypoints. Here is how I draw my routes (I have asked the Movescount folks to implement TOPO maps). I use Trimble it is free and syncs with my iPad and iPhone. The website is here and you can import the track you made with the Ambit or draw one. Note where your trail intersections are either visually or by copying lat/long. Export the route from Trimble into Movescount and add your waypoints in Movescount. You can add these either using lat/long or visually if you can see the junctions. Most of my stuff is above treeline so the latter works for me. I have not found a way to import waypoints into MC yet but I am trying. Good luck.


Thanks! I'll try to mess around with it tomorrow.


----------



## bowesmana

icuriosity said:


> I have exactly the same problem as well (Melbourne, Australia route).
> Maybe all the old routes have this problem.
> I will try to create new route and see if this makes any different.
> 
> Zoom-in view doesn't look anything like the map!


My first go was a new route, 2nd was an existing.
My zoom in view as I was walking looked correct and pointer was moving in the right way, so GPS knew where I was. It's just the zoomed out view that does not work.
Looks like we're not the only ones.


----------



## or_watching

martowl said:


> I had a similar issue occur when you are a long distance from your route. The Ambit will mark where you are currently, show the route as a tiny squiggle in the corner and tell you how far you are from the route. You need to draw or import a route that is where you are, then it works appropriately as you can see in my photos.


Hi. 
Nope, not in mine. I made a new fresh route tonight, starting from my house. Same fubar zoomed out view.

And nothing explains how when I did get to the route area, sometimes I was on the Zoomed in route line (correctly drawn), but the upcoming turn/segment was drawn going left instead of right (the waypoint page, as I said, was always correct). I'll sent Suunto a pointer to my MC Route names.


----------



## Joakim Agren

So there appear to be something wrong with the new navigation by following route method.

Also the new GPS time sync function seems to be flawed in much the same way as my old X10. Imagine a situation where you have no other time reference in the form of another watch, phone or computer and your Ambit have been dead for several hours due to a dead battery. Then after you have charged it up from a battery pack in the field, how are you supposed to get the correct time from GPS when the hours are not adjusted? And it seems the Ambit can not even adjust the minutes when the minutes are more than 7.5 minutes of the satellite time. I do not understand these strange limitations. It is my understanding the Garmin fenix not only adjust the time fully (hours, minutes and seconds) but also the date. Is it not so that GPS satellites have all the correct date and time information that a GPS receiver can receive and use? If so it should be able to adjust both the time and date as well as automatically adjust for DST, much in the same way a solar atomic Casio does. Also one possibility would be to automatically change time zones when passing a new time zone. But The GPS time function in the Ambit are not that advanced unlike the fenix. I am not completely disappointed with the Ambit and its new GPS time sync function. At least this is better than not having it. But it is now only on par with the old X10 and not with the fenix in this regard. Lets hope for future improvements in this regard!

I am also curious to see how this new continuous backlight affects battery life? When GPS is set to 1 second the battery will last about 16 hours, would be fun if someone tested to run the watch with backlight constant on at 30%. How long duration do you get?

Have anyone checked yet if the slow speed bug have been solved? The Ambit have had problems creating straight lines when walking in speeds below 7 Km/h, instead the lines have looked like loose threads between two pins on a map.

One of the updates mentioned is better distance calculation, have anyone checked this out yet?


----------



## DaveS66

I upgraded to 1.8.6 last night and my (negative) display looked awful. Could hardly view from any angle apart from straight-on. Adjusted the contrast back from 80% to 50% and its much better now


----------



## Mystro

I too noticed the negative display parameters have been changed. It isn't noticeable in positive display but the negative display contrast doesn't need to be at 70-80% anymore.



DaveS66 said:


> I upgraded to 1.8.6 last night and my (negative) display looked awful. Could hardly view from any angle apart from straight-on. Adjusted the contrast back from 80% to 50% and its much better now


----------



## srwilson

I was worried they would remove the ability to adjust the contrast. Glad to hear you were able to adjust it. 

It's torturous having my Ambit in the shop just when the update came out :-( but maybe you guys will have it all figured out by the time it is returned. 

How about the stop/pause, was it changed at all? Do you still get the inserted lap?


----------



## ambit_cracker

or_watching said:


> Suunto Ambit 1.8
> Improvements:
> - Distance calculation improvements
> 
> ambit_cracker, are you listening?


Did you have a chance to compare distance computed for known runs between old and new firmware?
But don't expect me to crack their new algorithm, if any, unless they send me a free Ambit :-d


----------



## theotherphil

Weird, I didn't have to adjust my contrast. Was set to 53% before the update and same post update.


----------



## idgsd

ambit_cracker said:


> Did you have a chance to compare distance computed for known runs between old and new firmware?
> But don't expect me to crack their new algorithm, if any, unless they send me a free Ambit :-d


First try with the new 1.8.6, no distance measurement improvement in walking with the watch on my wrist. Still measure 2-3% long and the corresponding track with lateral, periodic deviation (Fused Speed enabled). I expect that the measured distance will be right on with the watch in static position in my pocket. Oh well, it seems like Suunto is incapable of fixing this issue and I resign to living with this anomaly (if I want to measure my walks accurately, I need to hold the watch steady in my pocket). BTW, the Garmin fenix measures the same walk reasonably accurate, independently of how I hold the watch.


----------



## roots-n-rocks

ambit_cracker said:


> Did you have a chance to compare distance computed for known runs between old and new firmware?
> But don't expect me to crack their new algorithm, if any, unless they send me a free Ambit :-d


It's a small sample, but this morning i did a trail run that always measured between 6.25 and 6.28 miles with fw1.5. Distance measured 6.40 with fw1.8. Full disclosure, it was raining throughout my run this morning, so I don't know how that would effect the analysis.


----------



## Mystro

See if your negative display is as crisp. My guess is the contrast is more pronounced now so there is no need to be in the 70-80%. If you were already at 53%, you wouldnt notice the change. What was once super crisp negative display, looked more over saturated at 80%. Now at 50-60% it looks crisp and properly adjusted.



theotherphil said:


> Weird, I didn't have to adjust my contrast. Was set to 53% before the update and same post update.


----------



## or_watching

Joakim Agren said:


> So there appear to be something wrong with the new navigation by following route method.


Hi.
Specifically, it's the two map screen that have errors in drawing some segments, not all segments. And obviously not for all users and routes. POIs and current location and direction are correct.
The Waypoint navigation screen is fine.
And even when in an error-filled map screen the arrival and auto-next-waypoint are happening correctly.

So, hopefully just a graphics drawing bug.



Joakim Agren said:


> Also the new GPS time sync function seems....


I think you have characterized it right. I'm sure Suunto thought all this through, and everyone gets to decide on the practical consequences to themselves on their approach.


Joakim Agren said:


> I am also curious to see how this new continuous backlight affects battery life? When GPS is set to 1 second the battery will last about 16 hours, would be fun if someone tested to run the watch with backlight constant on at 30%. How long duration do you get?


Me too! I don't have the time now... but I'd love to see a gaijin-fenix-like graph with the light on vs off. It'll be handy to have a rule of thumb: Like, 1 hr of the BL on = 20% of the battery capacity. 


Joakim Agren said:


> One of the updates mentioned is better distance calculation, have anyone checked this out yet?


 I'll dig into this, but due to circumstances could be a couple weeks before I can get enough fresh data and then crunch it. "Better" could mean many things, but what specifically/technically?


----------



## or_watching

ambit_cracker said:


> Did you have a chance to compare distance computed for known runs between old and new firmware?


No. Curse my Real Life. Will be a week or two before I can get some runs of new vs. old references.


----------



## joelc

ambit_cracker said:


> Did you have a chance to compare distance computed for known runs between old and new firmware?
> But don't expect me to crack their new algorithm, if any, unless they send me a free Ambit :-d


Will give some news at the end of the week-end:
- tomorrow morning, I will run on a path I have measures with fw 1.5
- on sunday, I will run with a friend of mine on a path without no previous measure, but he is owner of a Garmin 610 and we always ended up with an underestimate on my Ambit fw 1.5 compared to his Garmin. So we will see the new status of the comparison between these two watches.


----------



## Premmit

The 1.8.6 also contains a few new language packs, does anybody know how I change the language?


----------



## or_watching

Premmit said:


> The 1.8.6 also contains a few new language packs, does anybody know how I change the language?


Hi.
In Movescount.


----------



## Premmit

Maybe I'm turning old...but I don't see the option in movescount to download a language patch to the ambit.


----------



## or_watching

Premmit said:


> Maybe I'm turning old...but I don't see the option in movescount to download a language patch to the ambit.


Hi.
It's in the Movescount General Settings for the watch.
Gear - Ambit - General Settings








After setting it in Movescount, Hit Save, then unplug and replug in your Ambit to get the Moveslink Synch to happen down to the watch.


----------



## bowesmana

theotherphil said:


> Weird, I didn't have to adjust my contrast. Was set to 53% before the update and same post update.


Mine was 50 before and 50 post update. The negatve display now seems to be much darker, but I can't be sure as I never really used it.


----------



## bowesmana

idgsd said:


> First try with the new 1.8.6, no distance measurement improvement in walking with the watch on my wrist. Still measure 2-3% long and the corresponding track with lateral, periodic deviation (Fused Speed enabled).


It's interesting that you measure longl. My own experience and most of the comments I've read show it always measures short. Not had a chance to run an exact same route yet, but next week will be able to.


----------



## idgsd

bowesmana said:


> It's interesting that you measure longl. My own experience and most of the comments I've read show it always measures short. Not had a chance to run an exact same route yet, but next week will be able to.


Please note that the activity is walking (about 6 km/hr pace) and not running. I noticed when I run, the distance accuracy is better. My only speculation is that while running, the arm is held mostly in an horizontal position where the antenna is mostly up, while in walking the antenna is mostly forward (arm is mostly down). At one time I thought is may be speed related, but that was refuted when I realized that once I hold the Ambit in my pocket, with the antenna mostly up, the distance is pretty accurate (and the track is fairly smooth without the weird lateral, about 50m periodic excursions). For my activities, this is a real downer of the Ambit compared to the fenix. The fenix exhibits none of this discrepency on the same walks!


----------



## petew

I've always wondered about how you guys really know what the exact distance of your runs are. Garmin says one thing, Ambit says another, Google maps says a third etc etc. Unless you actually go out and measure it with a wheel, how do you really know which one really is correct? Is there really an absolute reference for this information that we can truly compare our watches to?


----------



## pjc3

Morning run. On road at all times. Went into forested area and Ambit lost it! Bit disappointed.


----------



## idgsd

petew said:


> I've always wondered about how you guys really know what the exact distance of your runs are. Garmin says one thing, Ambit says another, Google maps says a third etc etc. Unless you actually go out and measure it with a wheel, how do you really know which one really is correct? Is there really an absolute reference for this information that we can truly compare our watches to?


This is an excellent question which I struggled with for a long time. What I did is measure a local street route carefully with Google Earth, at 6.60km. To confirm my methology I performed the same GE measurement on a local High School track (the inside lane) and measured 401m, so I felt reasonably comfortable with my methodology. I then walked the course with my trusted Etrex-30 handheld. I previously used the Etrex in an "official" 5K run, and it measured within 20m. I also used it on marked trails and it consistently measured well. The Etrex30, has measured "my" course consistently within 20-30 m. So now I use this specific course when I want to evaluate any GPS unit's distance measurement. I believe this course is definitely within +/- 1% of the actual distance. However, at this stage I care more about relative measurements and consistency (Ambit vs. fenix, Etrex vs. Oregon 450t, etc - you got the gist that I am a gismo freak, especially with GPS devices).


----------



## martowl

Don't know why some are having problems with route maps. Today I copied a prior run route, added new waypoints and transferred to the Ambit for a hike with a friend down from Canada. Here are the photos, the route maps worked perfectly. This is about 20 miles from my house.
































It worked perfectly, showed the route and heading
Just a view of where we actually were


----------



## bowesmana

martowl said:


> Don't know why some are having problems with route maps. Today I copied a prior run route, added new waypoints and transferred to the Ambit for a hike with a friend down from Canada. Here are the photos, the route maps worked perfectly. This is about 20 miles from my house.
> 
> It worked perfectly, showed the route and heading
> Just a view of where we actually were


Now I understand why you've hitting 50+ hours a month in MC!! Do you have a job?  If that was 20 miles from my hours, I think I would have a problem going to work!


----------



## martowl

bowesmana said:


> Now I understand why you've hitting 50+ hours a month in MC!! Do you have a job?  If that was 20 miles from my hours, I think I would have a problem going to work!


Yea, sometimes when there is fresh powder or I want a run in the mountains it is tough going to work. I have a fairly demanding job 60+ h per week but flexible. I am a Professor and have a research lab working on stem cells.


----------



## pjc3

Pause has not been fixed :-(


----------



## Premmit

pjc3 said:


> Pause has not been fixed :-(


I Agree with pjc 3. It's a big bummer they didn't fix pause!!


----------



## icuriosity

martowl said:


> Don't know why some are having problems with route maps. Today I copied a prior run route, added new ...


Hello everyone. Hello 'martowl'. I am new here. I visited this forum about 10 times a day but never participated. Until I have this problem with Ambit's zoom-out view in 1.8.6 firmware.

I think something is wrong with the zoom-out view algorithm. Not sure if Suunto have tested their program with topology in southern hemisphere (where latitude is reversed/opposite from northern hemisphere).

Any one from Australia has this same problem? :think:

These are the things I have tried:
- Forced another firmware update
- Reset GPS
- Removed all my old routes and POIs and recreated new ones
- Make sure my routes have BEGIN and END
- Changed all my formats around (i.e. use mile instead of km, etc)
- This morning I even went out for a run and logged my run in the watch, then uploaded and created new route from this run.
This trial was recorded with over 1000 route points and has been reduced to just over 700 route points. Total distance is 6.5 km.















- Next, I created a small route just around the block (only 0.5 km in total distance) and still having the same problem with the zoom-out view. The zoom-in view (using 500m scale) also looks funny and nothing like in the map or in the route planner tool.














- Note: I have 2 ambit watches: one black and one silver

They all have the same problem with the zoom-out view where it shows just a straight line and 1000km scale. Everything else seems working OK, i.e. way-point beep and notified me correctly when I approached each point.

I think 1000km scale is obviously wrong!! Running or even cycling can't cover the area this huge (unless you count flying as an outdoor sport as well).

Despite all those attempts above, I still have the same problem with the zoom-out view.

So far I haven't heard of anyone from southern hemisphere (i.e Australia) claiming this working correctly (anyone?). I will conclude that there is something incorrect with the zoom-out display algorithm.

I am considering summing this up and notify Suunto.
Do you have any suggestion?

PS: the problem above aside, I enjoy this forum and everyone kind comments and warm participation here very much. Hoping to participate more... ;-)

Thank you, all.


----------



## bowesmana

icuriosity said:


> Hello everyone. Hello 'martowl'. I am new here. I visited this forum about 10 times a day but never participated. Until I have this problem with Ambit's zoom-out view in 1.8.6 firmware.
> 
> I think something is wrong with the zoom-out view algorithm. Not sure if Suunto have tested their program with topology in southern hemisphere (where latitude is reversed/opposite from northern hemisphere).
> 
> Any one from Australia has this same problem? :think:


Welcome!

There are at least 2 of us from Australia who've posted the problem here. Interesting observation about the southern hemisphere. I just loaded an old route from the UK, but it shows no map, which I guess is because I'm miles away. It does not even show the line. However, it did show 1000km and the scale indicator was double the width of the scale indicator for the local route.



icuriosity said:


> So far I haven't heard of anyone from southern hemisphere (i.e Australia) claiming this working correctly (anyone?). I will conclude that there is something incorrect with the zoom-out display algorithm.
> 
> I am considering summing this up and notify Suunto.
> Do you have any suggestion?


I have alredy posted a coment of Suunto's facebook page as well as logged a phone support call and sent Helena details of the problem as I've found it.

So, they are certainly aware of the problem but it's always worth adding your voice.


----------



## pjc3

Hi icuriosity and bowesmana, another antipodean here 

I spent an hour or so doing same to get the "overview" map to work. Same results as you.

Some additional testing to your:

I made a route in mapmyrun and exported it...no luck.

I changed my home location to my current location ....no luck.

I turned of GPS time sync (just in case)....no luck.

I come to the same conclusion: there is a glitch.

Interestingly, when I made a route close but at my current location I got the "route" (2nd) map to toggle the scale between 500m and 1000m depending on orientation of the Ambit.


----------



## icuriosity

pjc3 said:


> Hi icuriosity and bowesmana, another antipodean here
> 
> I spent an hour or so doing same to get the "overview" map to work. Same results as you.
> ...


Thanks, gents.

I have posted a message to Suunto (via My Suunto section on suunto.com).
I bought my 2 ambits from Highly Tuned Athletes in Hampton, Vic.
Thinking of going to visit Peter (he wrote very good review on the Ambit) and see what he is thinking.

Will keep you posted.

Cheers!
iCuriosity.


----------



## pjc3

Got most of my Suunto stuff from HTA! Great service.


----------



## Radiopirat

pjc3 said:


> I made a route in mapmyrun and exported it...no luck.
> 
> I changed my home location to my current location ....no luck.
> 
> I turned of GPS time sync (just in case)....no luck.
> 
> I come to the same conclusion: there is a glitch.
> 
> Interestingly, when I made a route close but at my current location I got the "route" (2nd) map to toggle the scale between 500m and 1000m depending on orientation of the Ambit.


Do you have tested already with orientation north up or course up?


----------



## martowl

pjc3 said:


> Hi icuriosity and bowesmana, another antipodean here
> 
> I spent an hour or so doing same to get the "overview" map to work. Same results as you.
> 
> Some additional testing to your:
> 
> I made a route in mapmyrun and exported it...no luck.
> 
> I changed my home location to my current location ....no luck.
> 
> I turned of GPS time sync (just in case)....no luck.
> 
> I come to the same conclusion: there is a glitch.
> 
> Interestingly, when I made a route close but at my current location I got the "route" (2nd) map to toggle the scale between 500m and 1000m depending on orientation of the Ambit.


A question for those of you having this issue. Do you have any POIs listed other than your route POIs? I have one for my home in the watch. When I uploaded my first route it showed this POI, my position and the route that was about 20 miles away in the overview screen. Perhaps there is a POI that is confusing the watch? I do not have a good explanation as I have used two routes at two distinct places now without this issue. Let us know how it turns out.


----------



## Radiopirat

Joakim Agren said:


> One thing that puzzles me tough is this claim that only the minutes will be adjusted by GPS time sync. The entire purpose of GPS time sync is atomic precision and not minute precision. Can someone here test this time sync function?
> 
> Will it adjust to match atomic time or only the minutes?


I suggest to think in bigger dimensions... afaik only the Seiko Astron has programmed all the existing time zones and make the relation with the position. That means in fact: Even the Ambit has the exact atomic time from the GPS-Satellites the Ambit don't (yet?) know in which time zone you are and can't adjust the hours on a right way. Do you agree?


----------



## icuriosity

martowl said:


> A question for those of you having this issue. Do you have any POIs listed other than your route POIs? ...


I deleted all POIs and all routes. Then I created two new routes as stated. Still the same problem occurred.


----------



## petew

Radiopirat said:


> I suggest to think in bigger dimensions... afaik only the Seiko Astron has programmed all the existing time zones and make the relation with the position.


I've got a Garmin GPS watch that sets the time based on where I am. I've never had to tell it what timezone I was in to get the correct time.


----------



## pjc3

Radiopirat said:


> Do you have tested already with orientation north up or course up?


Yes, both settings.


----------



## diego87bs

Hi, Im going to buy a gps/cardio watch and I m looking for an ambit or a fenix.. With the release 1.8 i think Suunto will be my choice. 
But before Buy i have a question.
Can I put gpx file in the ambit? I want to upload on it the gpx file with the road that I'll ride with the bike.. just to dont get lost.. my fear is that a 60miles ride can't be uploads on the ambit for the limited space of the memory.
Thanks for your reply.


----------



## roots-n-rocks

Ok, rookie navigation question. If I'm running in unfamiliar woods, but I've got a route on my Ambit, how crucial are waypoints at intersections? Will the direction arrow on the navigation screen show me which way to go at intersections? (based on the route track) Im finding that entering waypoints at all intersections (with the online route planner) is pretty tedious, so I want to be sure it's necessary!


----------



## pjc3

The Ambit only points to next waypoint on a route, not the route itself. I specifically tested this. Thus you need to mark each significant change in direction with a waypoint if you are relying on Ambit for continuous navigation prompts.


----------



## roots-n-rocks

pjc3 said:


> The Ambit only points to next waypoint on a route, not the route itself. I specifically tested this. Thus you need to mark each significant change in direction with a waypoint if you are relying on Ambit for continuous navigation prompts.


hmmm. ok, so (again rookie here) is there any way for me to follow a route with no waypoints? specifically, if I'm looking to pre-run a race course that I've never run before, I try to find someone's gps file of the course. most of what I'm finding doesn't have waypoints at intersections. (someone's garmin connect route for example).
So, is there any way for me to follow a basic route like that on the Ambit?


----------



## bowesmana

roots-n-rocks said:


> hmmm. ok, so (again rookie here) is there any way for me to follow a route with no waypoints? specifically, if I'm looking to pre-run a race course that I've never run before, I try to find someone's gps file of the course. most of what I'm finding doesn't have waypoints at intersections. (someone's garmin connect route for example).
> So, is there any way for me to follow a basic route like that on the Ambit?


Short answer. No. The navigation works based on waypoints, so unless you edit the route and add waypoints, you cannot navigate with it. It doesn't seem possible to import kml files with waypoint definitions. At least I've not found out how.

I can't comment on how the new map feature works if you just upload that route with no waypoints to the watch because it doesn't work for me.


----------



## sordio

bowesmana said:


> Updated this morning and created a new route for my dog walk to test out the map. I just mapped the first 1.5km and uploaded the route and off I went.
> 
> First odd thing. See this map view
> View attachment 832958
> 
> What's with the 1000km??? It looks like it's telling me B is 12000km away.
> 
> The zoom button took me to 500m, which is as the manual describes. I noticed I had not specifically set the last WP to 'End', so did that but it makes no difference.


I have the same program:-|


----------



## bowesmana

sordio said:


> I have the same program:-|


Are you in the southern or northern hemisphere?


----------



## sordio

bowesmana said:


> Are you in the southern or northern hemisphere?


northern hemisphere


----------



## Joonatan

roots-n-rocks said:


> hmmm. ok, so (again rookie here) is there any way for me to follow a route with no waypoints? specifically, if I'm looking to pre-run a race course that I've never run before, I try to find someone's gps file of the course. most of what I'm finding doesn't have waypoints at intersections. (someone's garmin connect route for example).
> So, is there any way for me to follow a basic route like that on the Ambit?


Yes, but then only using the map route navigation, the arrow thing only points you directly to the next waypoint if you have those. I did two map route tests creating route previously unknown for me, and using zoomed in view was pretty straight forward and kept me all time well on the right track. Seems like the begin and end waypoints are mandatory to have?, but that is not any problem for me. I wonder how accurate the map navigation would be on a fog, but it worked really good on tracks and even on forrest passages.


----------



## Radiopirat

petew said:


> I've got a Garmin GPS watch that sets the time based on where I am. I've never had to tell it what timezone I was in to get the correct time.


You are right. I checked the Manual of my 610 and found also this note. So maybe the Seiko Astron is he only analog Watch with this feature.

But I use also a Nike/TOMTOM-Watch which also syncs only the Minutes and Seconds (and only if I disable the sync with the computer).

It seems that there is a lot of options for next updates...


----------



## or_watching

I have the mapping problems at second location, 100 miles from my home. Different routes, different location. Same problems I mentioned earlier in the Zoomed out (500mile scale) and the Zoomed in screens (some segments correction, some going the wrong direction and some vectoring off in to the ether).

At suunto.com I wrote them a note to let them know specific problematic routes, but nothing happened when I clicked the "Send" button. Two browsers, same problem. Don't know if it actually submitted. I'll try again tomorrow.


----------



## or_watching

ambit_cracker said:


> Did you have a chance to compare distance computed for known runs between old and new firmware?
> But don't expect me to crack their new algorithm, if any, unless they send me a free Ambit :-d


here's a teaser which, perhaps, only ambit_cracker could love. 1.8 is definitely not your grandma's original recipe.
time to get crackin'! 

I also wont have much time to look carefully this for a couple weeks.

the very shortest version of this story so far:
- a few more points are used in the Ambit calculation now (vs 2xEHPE in 1.5). Skewed to do a calculation a few meters shorter, on average (e.g. maybe one seconds worth of running travel)
- On a 6mi run and 1.5mi wooded hike, the Ambit reported distance was 0.01mile different than the fenx (on Auto "more often" and "most often")
- On a 6mi run and 1.5mi wooded hike the track on the Ambit has the same drunken wander it's always had.
- On a 6mi run the fenix followed the road 'pretty darn well', comparitively, and on 1.5mi wooded hike fenix track was straighter (obvious with 90% fewer points), and probably more correct.


----------



## ultra_apm

*Southern Hemisphere*



icuriosity said:


> opposite from northern hemisphere).
> 
> Any one from Australia has this same problem? :think:


Hi all.
I'm another "viewer-turned-new-member" from Australia.
icuriosity: I went for a run right near your route (ran along beach road brighton to mentone and back) yesterday and found the same problem.

Here are my observations:
1) The zoom out is set to 1000km scale and shows a straight line, as though I'm 1000s of km away from the start (same as icuriosity noted).
2) The zoomed in (500m) view was also buggy: at one point on my run (a long, straight section) the map route looked like a big ">" shape as though I needed to do a 90-degree turn, which was wrong. When I continued on my path, after a 100m or so, it suddenly switched to a "<" shape as though I was coming back onto the track (note that I have it set so up always North, so it shouldn't have suddenly rotated like that). It just suddenly switched. Note that I was running along a beach path, so it was telling me that I should have been running across the ocean and turning when I hit land (in other words, the route shown on screen was obviously ridiculous).
3) The zoom automatically adjusts if you go off course. I ran longer than intended, just kept going past the turn around point. The 500m scale just adjusted out to 700m, 1km, 2km etc as I ran further, so that it always showed my location AND the turnaround waypoint on the same screen. That's a cool feature!

On another point: does anyone have a good, clear explanation of the easiest ways to save runs as routes? I can't get movescount to upload previous routes from my routes library onto the watch. I'd also love a simple way to use routes that garmin users have posted on the garmin site.

Cheers.


----------



## icuriosity

*Re: Southern Hemisphere*



ultra_apm said:


> Hi all.
> I'm another "viewer-turned-new-member" from Australia.
> icuriosity: I went for a run right near your route ...


Ahhh! I thought I saw someone wearing the Ambit running passed me when I was nearly passed out yesterday ;-)

Update:
- Called HTA (Peter won't be back until tomorrow). Not much luck. Was told to contact Sunnto.com instead.
- Have not heard back from Sunnto (after submitting bug/request on saturday)

I don't have my watch with me, but thinking of trying this:
- Setting compass declination to +11 (according to Magnetic Declination). My watch currently has no declination set.

I don't think this will help but I will update back tomorrow.

Regards


----------



## pjc3

*Re: Southern Hemisphere*

My declination is correctly set and it makes no difference.


----------



## mnaranjo

*Re: Southern Hemisphere*

I think the 500m min zoom of the track is useless
When I've used those kind of tracks in my garmin devices always selected 80m zoom
with 500m when you realize you have missed the correct way you are really far away..

I will write suunto about that


----------



## undret

or_watching said:


> here's a teaser which, perhaps, only ambit_cracker could love. 1.8 is definitely not your grandma's original recipe.
> time to get crackin'!
> 
> I also wont have much time to look carefully this for a couple weeks.
> 
> the very shortest version of this story so far:
> - a few more points are used in the Ambit calculation now (vs 2xEHPE in 1.5). Skewed to do a calculation a few meters shorter, on average (e.g. maybe one seconds worth of running travel)
> - On a 6mi run and 1.5mi wooded hike, the Ambit reported distance was 0.01mile different than the fenx (on Auto "more often" and "most often")
> - On a 6mi run and 1.5mi wooded hike the track on the Ambit has the same drunken wander it's always had.
> - On a 6mi run the fenix followed the road 'pretty darn well', comparitively, and on 1.5mi wooded hike fenix track was straighter (obvious with 90% fewer points), and probably more correct.
> <cut>


I am also a newcomer here, trying out the Ambit right now. I have owned Garmin devices for the last 10 years. I was out yesterday on a 18km trekking tour with Ambit. The area is close to the sea with mostly unobscured sky. 
Yet, the track it recorded looks like I had a pint of vodka instead of water to drink..

I have used GPS devices for trekking and general navigation. I have never used a sports watch before, so I would like to combine these functions in a single device. And I would also like to try our a new vendor with a reputation and history in sports watches to get a new approach. The results I got in that area and the HR belt was very positive.

But the disappointment with GPS accuracy, or rather the inability of the device to cope with GPS inaccuacies, and the reported problems with routes... Now, I am seriously considering the Fenix instead... I have some time left before I absolutely must decide. I also love movescount web site, and I am not sure if Garmin has something even close to it.

The deficiencies could be remedied with FW updates I am sure.


----------



## mnaranjo

I think you have the GPS recording bad configured
Check both, the activity config and that you have no ultra track selected
In movescount


----------



## or_watching

undret said:


> I am also a newcomer here, trying out the Ambit right now. I have owned Garmin devices for the last 10 years. I was out yesterday on a 18km trekking tour with Ambit. The area is close to the sea with mostly unobscured sky.
> Yet, the track it recorded looks like I had a pint of vodka instead of water to drink..
> 
> I have used GPS devices for trekking and general navigation. I have never used a sports watch before, so I would like to combine these functions in a single device. And I would also like to try our a new vendor with a reputation and history in sports watches to get a new approach. The results I got in that area and the HR belt was very positive.
> 
> But the disappointment with GPS accuracy, or rather the inability of the device to cope with GPS inaccuacies, and the reported problems with routes... Now, I am seriously considering the Fenix instead... I have some time left before I absolutely must decide. I also love movescount web site, and I am not sure if Garmin has something even close to it.
> 
> The deficiencies could be remedied with FW updates I am sure.


Hi.
This is very typical of my experience with my Ambit, especially as walking speed:
the Ambit track is in blue (1/sec). fenix in red (Auto, Most-Frequent: records about 1 every 10 seconds on average)
(this is perhaps the 'worst' segment of the walk, but it's illustrative)

However the reported distance was essentially identical (within 1%) on this walk in the woods, because the Ambit doesn't use every point it records in it's distance calculation.


----------



## idgsd

Walking in my neighborhood (6 km/hr pace):

1. Yellow - Ambit (1.8.6) on my wrist
2. Blue - Ambit (1.8.6) in my pocket
3. Black - fenix (2.60)

The watch measured distances of 2 & 3 are nearly identical. The distance of 1 about 2-3% longer


----------



## cobrapa

idgsd said:


> Walking in my neighborhood (6 km/hr pace):
> 
> 1. Yellow - Ambit (1.8.6) on my wrist
> 2. Blue - Ambit (1.8.6) in my pocket
> 3. Black - fenix (2.60)
> 
> The watch measured distances of 2 & 3 are nearly identical. The distance of 1 about 2-3% longer


So which do you think is better of blue or black?

It looks like they differ quite a bit in places as well. It looks like black is off the road quite a distance in a few places.

In some ways, I would argue yellow is no worse than black, given the variance from the sidewalk, but who knows.

Do you have WAAS enabled on the fenix? (It is disabled by default.)

Very nice comparison.


----------



## idgsd

cobrapa said:


> So which do you think is better of blue or black?
> 
> It looks like they differ quite a bit in places as well. It looks like black is off the road quite a distance in a few places.
> 
> In some ways, I would argue yellow is no worse than black, given the variance from the sidewalk, but who knows.
> 
> Do you have WAAS enabled on the fenix? (It is disabled by default.)
> 
> Very nice comparison.


The fenix WAAS is enabled. From my previous Ambit moves on movescount, with the watch inside my pocket, and fenix on GC, I would say that the tracks are of about the same "quality". Each will veer off track at times but not too badly. Their distances measured on the watch are very close (<0.5%). The "odd" track out is the Ambit on the wrist. As you can see, it has this strange behavior and its distance is consistently 2-3% longer. To add to this mix, the Ambit track while running is similar to the "pocket" case....


----------



## cobrapa

idgsd said:


> The fenix WAAS is enabled.


Interesting. Have you happened to look at the fenix satellite view, to see if the little 'D' indicators are showing up (indicating you are getting WAAS corrections?)


----------



## idgsd

cobrapa said:


> Interesting. Have you happened to look at the fenix satellite view, to see if the little 'D' indicators are showing up (indicating you are getting WAAS corrections?)


Haven't done it but will look on my nexy walk.


----------



## roveurboat

I'm new to Ambit. Did take it with me(on wrist) for my last two 4 mile runs. Same course I've run hundreds of times using Garmin, Runkeeper, etc... It is quite accurate when running. Total distance was long by less than 200 feet for the 4 mile course(open skies, no trees). I'll keep testing and report back.


----------



## idgsd

cobrapa said:


> Interesting. Have you happened to look at the fenix satellite view, to see if the little 'D' indicators are showing up (indicating you are getting WAAS corrections?)


Satellite view shows 10 satellites at varying level of receptions, nearly all show D (but the D never stays permanent, it just stays on for a few seconds )


----------



## Lost-again

roveurboat said:


> I'm new to Ambit. Did take it with me(on wrist) for my last two 4 mile runs. Same course I've run hundreds of times using Garmin, Runkeeper, etc... It is quite accurate when running. Total distance was long by less than 200 feet for the 4 mile course(open skies, no trees). I'll keep testing and report back.


Looking back at my history of Ambit runs, 5k, 10k and up to 12.5k I have found it to be consistent and within a 100 m of google earth, so I'm not seeing any big issues, in most cases I can even see where I cross the road. This is mainly on road with a good sky view.


----------



## or_watching

Hi. 
I didnt notice if anyone had posted this link summarizing the Movescount changes that went along with 1.8.6.

Routes
Sharing
Exporting
Merging (beta)

Movescount.com - Powered by Suunto


----------



## icuriosity

Ladies and Gents,

RE: Problem with Map View (both Full Track View and Zoom-in view)

I have created a separate thread to sum up the problems with Map Views here https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/map-view-issues-suunto-ambit-firmware-1-8-6-a-756877.html.

If you have similar issues, could you help adding some weight to the thread? 
I hope this will help in speeding up the resolution process.

Thanks All.


----------



## undret

or_watching said:


> Hi.
> This is very typical of my experience with my Ambit, especially as walking speed:
> the Ambit track is in blue (1/sec). fenix in red (Auto, Most-Frequent: records about 1 every 10 seconds on average)
> (this is perhaps the 'worst' segment of the walk, but it's illustrative)
> 
> However the reported distance was essentially identical (within 1%) on this walk in the woods, because the Ambit doesn't use every point it records in it's distance calculation.


Hi thanks.
That is very useful information.
Let me tell you a bit more about the background. I go hiking quite a bit for sometimes long distances. I also do outdoor training, cycling, inline skating, running on trails, and take walks. I am an outdoor enthusiast with a big interest in nature. Indoor training is less important for me.

I have had Garmin handhelds since my first Geko 201 10 years go. Then I have had also Foretrex 101 (essentially a 201 but wrist worn), a Geko 301 (201 + barometer, and compass, I think), Nüvi car navigator, and an Oregon 550t.
Garmin is a GPS company, and they build GPS-es. That is, the GPS receiver is the core of the device, but then a lot of extra goodies are thrown in that use the GPS receiver in almost all imaginable, and more or less useful ways. Just think of all data that can be chosen to be displayed in a field, for example.
When I saw the Fenix and pictures on it, I thought "Ok, a GPS in a wrist-worn form factor with better battery time (an achilles heel of past devices), bluetooth, vibrator, and some ANT+ capability, no maps". 
When you switch on the device, you switch on the GPS, because the device, according to Garmin philosophy, is the GPS. Then that is active until you turn the device off.

I have questioned the approach... So I considered the Suunto Ambit that has a different one.

For the Ambit, I clearly see it is basically a watch where you time your exercise by pressing start/stop and lap times. We had those old mechanical ones in school. Then the Ambit has included a lot of technology to implement more training data besides timing for other uses, like running, cycling, skiing and now trekking. What I like here is that a hiking/trekking tour is seen as a exercise that I can start and stop. And navigation has been provided. Here, the positioning functionality is one technology beside the others in the watch and is engaged when needed depending on what you are going to use the watch for.

Which device is best for me? I thought if I buy the Fenix, then it is yet another Garmin GPS once again that I already have several of. A sport watch I have never owned. It is unclear to me if the Fenix can be used for indoor training (heart rate, cadence, etc), but clearly, the Ambit can. Do you know?

But then the Ambit has several shortcomings that make me doubt it:
* Track is not shown in a map on the device.
* GPS performance (as discussed above). My old foretrex performed better here.
* In Movescount I cannot point to a point on my track, and see exactly when I was at that point and relate to my heart rate for example. No connection between google map track, and HR data.
* GPS antenna placement
* Pausing an exercice creates a lap
* No USB mass storage when I plug the device in. 
* Full dependency to movescount/moveslink.

I have not yet tried the route and navigation to waypoints.

What is really good with the Ambit:
* Training functions, and the HR sensor. Love that! That gave my running a new dimension.
* GPS fix took only a few seconds even though tall buildings surround me.
* Movescount functionality.
* Build quality. Looks.

Then Fenix has two other advantages:
* Bluetooth
* Vibrator
BUT
* Lacks foot pod support. BIG disadvantage for me.

Right now I do not know if I should replace it for Fenix, or hope for firmware improvements.
It is much more exciting to see where Suunto will take the Ambit. Garmin remains Garmin...

I have up to the coming weekend to make a decision.

Please correct me if I am wrong. 

To summarize:
Ambit is a watch. Fenix is a GPS.

Regards,


----------



## undret

Lost-again said:


> Looking back at my history of Ambit runs, 5k, 10k and up to 12.5k I have found it to be consistent and within a 100 m of google earth, so I'm not seeing any big issues, in most cases I can even see where I cross the road. This is mainly on road with a good sky view.


I will do the same, comparing my Ambit with my Oregon 550 both placed in pockets.  Early on, the 550 had GPS problems initially with WAAS/Egnos support, but that was fixed with firmware updates.
I have no doubt about the GPS receiver inside the Ambit, it is a SiRF star IV. The Oregon has another GPS chip (ST Cartesio) which I have found to be reliable. If it has been used in the last few days at least, it often gets a GPS fix even before the screen is lit up. 
The uneven tracks shown in Ambit should certainly be possible to fix with new firmware updates. I have an old wrist worn GPS, Foretrex 101, that had no such problems.

I wish I knew more about what Suunto has up its sleeve for later firmware updates... Should I keep the watch or not, or should I get the Fenix GPS.
It feels like I have caved in to Garmin once again if I make the switch.

I really like the watch paradigm by Suunto. The Fenix is, according to me, not really a watch. Rather a handheld GPS gives a watch form factor, spiced up with sports support.
Does it make a difference? I don't know...


----------



## pjc3

People really are getting caught up in nuances here wrt tracks viewed on PC/Mac. It is obvious both the Ambit and fenix are pretty damn accurate. Sure, the squiggly line on the GE embedded map is not as smooth when you zoom in fully but what does that really mean when you are going on a 10K run, 20K hike or a 5 day epic. I trust Suunto for altimeter, barometric and watch function, it is very easy to prepare at home & use in the field. I haven't got a fenix but the ambit does everything with such ease I have no interest in trialling anything else. I am also confident the small number of bugs will be fixed.


----------



## Mystro

Garmin has a long road to prove it is in the same league as Suunto in this field of ABC explorer type of watches. You can nick pick minor technical differences but in the end, what watch will hold up in the back country when you are miles from any support? This is where Suuntos reputation as the leader in ABC watches is paramount.


----------



## cobrapa

About the fenix & Garmin...



undret said:


> When you switch on the device, you switch on the GPS, because the device, according to Garmin philosophy, is the GPS. Then that is active until you turn the device off.
> 
> I have questioned the approach... So I considered the Suunto Ambit that has a different one.


Small correction here. The fenix has 'gps start' and 'gps stop' options on the menu. The gps is stopped by default, until you press 'gps start'.


----------



## or_watching

undret said:


> It feels like I have caved in to Garmin once again if I make the switch


Funny!!!!


----------



## stevil

I noticed something else rather interesting yesterday. I did a treadmill run of 3 miles, telling the Ambit I was running, but chose "Later" for GPS. It tracked a distance of 3.34 miles. I expected it to track nothing, so I'm wondering if it's using FusedSpeed to estimate it, despite the fact that the GPS should be off?


----------



## saridis

stevil said:


> I noticed something else rather interesting yesterday. I did a treadmill run of 3 miles, telling the Ambit I was running, but chose "Later" for GPS. It tracked a distance of 3.34 miles. I expected it to track nothing, so I'm wondering if it's using FusedSpeed to estimate it, despite the fact that the GPS should be off?


yes it does use fusespeed , quite accuretely actually!

if you choose gps signal "later" then only the internal accelerometer works. and works great on a treadmill.
this is untill you run on a treadmill near a window or where ever your watch will pick up satellite signal and will aventually override the fusespeed accelerometer , resulting in zero distance and zero speed measurements.

i emailed suunto asking in next update to be able to choose the use of the fusespeed separetely from gps, for indoor or treadmill cases like this one.

many running watches use internal accelerometer for measuring speed and distance while running. and they make it just fine.

i dont see a reason why not fully utilize the already existing acceloremeter instead of making ambit owners to BUY a separate one (footpod in the next update)

i wish they finally use the fusespeed ,which by the way could be auto-calibrated using the existing gps in ambit....


----------



## Joakim Agren

saridis said:


> yes it does use fusespeed , quite accuretely actually!
> 
> if you choose gps signal "later" then only the internal accelerometer works. and works great on a treadmill.
> this is untill you run on a treadmill near a window or where ever your watch will pick up satellite signal and will aventually override the fusespeed accelerometer , resulting in zero distance and zero speed measurements.
> 
> i emailed suunto asking in next update to be able to choose the use of the fusespeed separetely from gps, for indoor or treadmill cases like this one.
> 
> many running watches use internal accelerometer for measuring speed and distance while running. and they make it just fine.
> 
> i dont see a reason why not fully utilize the already existing acceloremeter instead of making ambit owners to BUY a separate one (footpod in the next update)
> 
> i wish they finally use the fusespeed ,which by the way could be auto-calibrated using the existing gps in ambit....


This is interesting. I was not aware of nor have I seen it announced anywhere that the Ambit are now using fused speed for pedometer purposes. The question is then how can it calculate distances without having to program the step distance?


----------



## bowesmana

Joakim Agren said:


> This is interesting. I was not aware of nor have I seen it announced anywhere that the Ambit are now using fused speed for pedometer purposes. The question is then how can it calculate distances without having to program the step distance?


Accelerometers do not work using a fixed step distance, they work by using acceleration. I don't know the detail, but just google accelerometer speed


----------



## or_watching

Joakim Agren said:


> This is interesting. I was not aware of nor have I seen it announced anywhere that the Ambit are now using fused speed for pedometer purposes. The question is then how can it calculate distances without having to program the step distance?


Hi.
True, I think, that the fusedspeed hasn't been marketing for pedometer purposes.
I think it's just a by-product of the marketed purpose of still showing a pace when the satellites are lost. If it's going to report a pace, it must know a distance traveled.








I've seen it do exactly this at the beginning of a run when I started in an downtown with tall buildings. Link.

There's no user-entered calibration factor, like there is with the footpods. Either it's done silently with the GPS distance, or else it's a fixed. Given that and the differences between running the road and running a treadmill, I'm not surprised by the 10% error.

It'll be interesting to see how exactly Suunto implements the Footpod in November.


----------



## format

Correct me if I'm wrong but I guess this update for the Ambit doesn't offer a real follow track feature "a la Garmin".

The idea is to load a track and have the watch alert you if you go off course. In the 2.7 fenix firmware I finally saw a "off course alert". I don't want to set waypoints along the track. I just want to make sure I'm on track all the way without having to constantly looking at the watch. If you go more than, say, 20 meters the correct path you're following, the watch alerts you. 

I guess this feature is not in Ambit plans. The way I see this navigation map display, from what I read in this thread, is just a graphical layer, with the basic navigation stuff remaining exactly the same (navigate to waypoints).

Or am I wrong?


----------



## pjc3

format said:


> Or am I wrong?


You are right. It is reasonably simple. It works well.


----------



## Tweekster

Anyone notice their battery life is less with FW 1.8.6?

I can fully charge, not use GPS or backlight, and the battery indicator hits the 50% mark in 4-5 days of daily wear. Before the update it was much longer.


----------



## Time_Bandit_8

Question for the Ambit crowd - I want to purchase an Ambit, but most vendors still have the 1.5 version of the watch on their shelves... if you had a choice, would you wait until you could buy one with the latest 1.8 software already loaded from the factory on the watch? Or does it matter? I know it is just a simple download, very familiar with that, but still sometimes its better to get the factory pre-loaded version when it comes to software. 

I already own the Fenix, and want to play with both watches for the next few months to see which watch / platform I like better. I have three Garmin GPS's, been using Garmin for years and have Mapsource, Basecamp, 5 different TOPO 24K regions, etc, etc so I am familiar with the Garmin platform. Overall happy with the Fenix so far. But I have never used Movescount, etc, or have no experience with Suunto GPS platform.

I also own a Suunto Core, and do like the functionality / operational aspects of Suunto - their BP readings are the only ones spot on of ALL the portable devices I own that monitor it - including my Kestrel 3500!!!

Anyway, do I wait for Ambit's being sold off the shelf with 1.8 before taking the plunge, or does it matter in your humble opinion?


----------



## cobrapa

Don't think it matters.

Unless you want to keep that 500 bucks nice and warm in your pocket for a while longer! :-d


----------



## theotherphil

It doesn't matter...1.8 is a mandatory upgrade which will be applied the first time you plug it into your computer.


----------



## jimmijames73

Time_Bandit_8 said:


> Question for the Ambit crowd - I want to purchase an Ambit, but most vendors still have the 1.5 version of the watch on their shelves... if you had a choice, would you wait until you could buy one with the latest 1.8 software already loaded from the factory on the watch? Or does it matter? I know it is just a simple download, very familiar with that, but still sometimes its better to get the factory pre-loaded version when it comes to software.


I would not hold off purchasing an Ambit based on the installed firmware as you could be waiting a while. Firmware 2.0 is scheduled for release in November, by the time the Ambit is shipped with this version it is possible that an updated firmware would be available.


----------



## Poluglottos

Yes, mine seems to wear out quicker than that... Makes me wonder if I've left something on or something??


----------



## Lost-again

No issues here, battery life is fine. Can do weeks running 3x a week for 60 min+ @ 1s update, even after 3 weeks there is usually around 40% left.


----------



## Guest

first of all a *big* thanks for all the useful info I've found here before buying the ambit!

mine after 1h running @1s loses ~14% of charge. out of curiosity do you save the move every time? if that is the case you gain some more day because it charges a bit


----------



## Lost-again

ihoannes said:


> first of all a *big* thanks for all the useful info I've found here before buying the ambit!
> 
> mine after 1h running @1s loses ~14% of charge. out of curiosity do you save the move every time? if that is the case you gain some more day because it charges a bit


Normally I will sync once per week, only connecting long enough to transfer the data, but you are right it is a little top up. However, mine is back at Suunto for a screen issue so I cannot run a test until I get it back, but 14% in 1h is slightly high 7% would be more normal. Suggest yo run it completely flat then charge fully, to re- cal the battery meter.


----------



## Guest

Lost-again said:


> Normally I will sync once per week, only connecting long enough to transfer the data, but you are right it is a little top up. However, mine is back at Suunto for a screen issue so I cannot run a test until I get it back, but 14% in 1h is slightly high 7% would be more normal. Suggest yo run it completely flat then charge fully, to re- cal the battery meter.


these are the very first outings w/ the ambit and probably the battery needs some more charging cycle for improving performance. anyway it's a very strange behaviour because the first time I've used the ambit for an hike I was impressed because it lost less than 15% in +4h (ok, recording rate @60s...). I will check this in more detail. thanks!


----------

