# 2010 Projects Survey.....



## Yao

Its time to start thinking about 2010. While the projects proposed in this survey probably will not make it to market until early 2011 its time again for me to begin planning for the upcoming year.

If you have a few moments your input is, as always, appreciated.

Survey


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## Inq

*IWC Die Kampftaucheruhr* is my first and only choice. Make it a *quartz* like the original and I will commit.

Cheers,
Catalin


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## rmasso

Just completed my survey!


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## Watchamacallit

OMG that proto Seamaster is _so_ gorgeous.

I'm tempted to complete the survey with every e-mail address at my disposal ...


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## NWP627

Thank you for requesting my opinion.
N


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## SirRolf

Wow that Proto-seamaster is really nice looking. I'd say the best looking out of the three.

I noticed a question about possible quartz chronographs with vintage look...am I getting hints of the Omega Speedmaster? That would be totally sweet!!! I'd be on that boat so fast.

-S.R.


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## sunster

Watchamacallit said:


> OMG that proto Seamaster is _so_ gorgeous.
> 
> I'm tempted to complete the survey with every e-mail address at my disposal ...


Agree here :-!

I was wondering whether MK II projects necessarily need be a homage. Styling cues may be taken from other watches (and usually of course popular watches) as all manufacturers do however it would be nice to have some unique styling cues to set the new piece as totally Mk II


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## clarencek

+1 Proto Seamaster for me as well. If he does it, I'll buy it. I really didn't like the IWC. 

I requested a vintage chronograph - like a Daytona, but am thinking that might be a bit tacky. I do love chronos, so hopefully there are other options.


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## Dave E

Done and I love that proto-Seamaster.


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## tomr

Another +1 for the Proto-Seamaster. I was somewhat expecting the likelihood of the SM300, but the Proto-SM was a real surprise and, I think, a much more distinctive model. I'm also encouraged by the quartz chrono prospect, and would like to see something like the Aquastar or Rotary, as shown in previous threads.

While the IWC Ocean in quartz might be a consideration, it would come last in my preferences of the aforementioned models.

As a 2nd stage Kingston member, who got in too late to provide input for its design, I am looking forward to participating this time around.

Thanks to Bill for giving us that opportunity.


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## Arthur

I too like the Proto Seamaster quite a bit. The IWC doesn't do it for me at all. A quartz chrono if it were a homage to the right watch would be a winner for me.Omega X-33 (Are is it too off beat?)
Right now, I'm hoping against hope that i can be in that lucky 100 that are able to order the 3rd stage kingston. That's my watch for now.
Arthur


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## messenius

All this sounds very very promising

I voted proto Seamaster as my first choice. Don't you just love the plastic shiny bezel b-)

As a dial and hands choice the arrow hands would be great á la railmaster and ranchero

here is a link for a first gen seamaster 300 with railmaster

http://www.chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?noframes;read=10424


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## bompi

Proto Seamaster to me as well.
[I don't like much the IWC/Porsche]

I'd be interested in getting a MKII Quartz. The main question in that case would be : which calibre to choose for it ? Since MKII sell watches adjusted in the range of COSC specifications, It'd be relevant to choose a high-end quartz movement, to be in the range of COSC specs as well.
But I don't know who sells such movements and their price [SEIKO, Citizen, Ronda, ...]


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## number2

I vote for the larger and more traditional SM300.
To have a wearable classic like the SM300, with the MOD dial and hands, would be my choice.
The "proto" Seamaster, while nice, just doesn't do it for me.


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## WiscOmega

I guess I am in the minority, but I really like the IWC Ocean diver. It's retro cool with a highly readable dial ala a Speedmaster without the chrono dials. I guess I have seen so many SM300s out there along with the fakes and homages that another one doesn't do it for me.

YMMV


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## rmasso

Bill,

In regards to the Quartz chronograph, if you made one with the standard 3-6-9 dial layout and used a high end ETA quartz chronograph movement where the chronograph seconds hand ticks at a 1/5th /second increment I would be interested. If it was an homage to the right watch. For me in particular it would be this one below....








or this one with black dial, very very nice....









Make an homage of that Daytona with that color scheme and movement as described and at the right price, I am in. Screw down pushers and crown. 20mm lugs. Sapphire crystal that mimics the original plastic one....
The only thing in question if you make an homage of it, is what would you put at 12 o'clock in place of the Rolex crown.... it seems that is an integral part of the look. Perhaps the MKII logo applied as the crown?
Also the RED DAYTONA above the chronograph hour marker, come up with a good name and put it there in red as well.....
Very nice.
That's my two cents.
Best Regards,
Richard


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## Galpo

I've voted for the IWC, if only for being different from other Mil divers.
I can't say it's 80ies design is sexy but sure is bold and unique.

I hope bill will "push" it a little forward in time, design wise, towards 2010.

BTW, All three suggestions are a great start point for another fine MKII watch :-!


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## tomr

Although I voted for the Proto-Seamaster, I have to admit that the IWC model is starting to grow on me. It has a clean and distinctive look, and I also like that it is not oversized. Also, with a high-quality quartz movement in a titanium case, it would be a great everyday/sport watch. I certainly would not be disappointed with this model if it won out in the poll.

With so many attractive prospects, it's too bad that Bill can only pursue one project at a time. I'm getting too old to wait a year or more for a watch. Hopefully, perhaps, he may get some help and deliver two or more models concurrently.


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## timbo

I like the chrono idea - especially one based on proto-speedmasters like this

I am wondering about the whole quartz issue, though. What is the attraction to quartz over an automatic like the ETA/Valjoux 775X family? Cost? I would definitely be on board for an auto, not so sure about a quartz.


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## clarencek

rmasso said:


> Make an homage of that Daytona with that color scheme and movement as described and at the right price, I am in. Screw down pushers and crown. 20mm lugs. Sapphire crystal that mimics the original plastic one....


|>
Took the words right out of my mouth - absolutely. Add 100M water resistance and I'll take one and know 3-4 other folks who would buy one as well.


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## Yao

timbo said:


> I like the chrono idea - especially one based on proto-speedmasters like this
> 
> I am wondering about the whole quartz issue, though. What is the attraction to quartz over an automatic like the ETA/Valjoux 775X family? Cost? I would definitely be on board for an auto, not so sure about a quartz.


The reason for quartz is that it is less expensive to do and therefore less expensive to sell. It also ties up less of my capital in a long term project. Also the other point is that a chronograph has many more parts and a more complicated dial (generally). If there is interest I would prefer to start with something simpler like a quartz movement. At this point it is just an idea. I am really curious as to how much interest there would be in such a project.

Personally I don't like the 7750. I prefer the 2894-2 even though it is a modular chronograph. I probably won't venture into a mechanical chronograph until the unemployment rate actually drops.


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## Cowbiker

Curious where the Snowflake may show up and if blue dial and bezel are being considered, an LRRP like that would be a pick-up for me.


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## clarencek

Yao said:


> The reason for quartz is that it is less expensive to do and therefore less expensive to sell. It also ties up less of my capital in a long term project. Also the other point is that a chronograph has many more parts and a more complicated dial (generally). If there is interest I would prefer to start with something simpler like a quartz movement. At this point it is just an idea. I am really curious as to how much interest there would be in such a project.
> 
> Personally I don't like the 7750. I prefer the 2894-2 even though it is a modular chronograph. I probably won't venture into a mechanical chronograph until the unemployment rate actually drops.


My $0.02 and coming from a fan... I personally wouldn't be interested in quartz unless it was solar-powered which may go against what this whole effort is about (homage, nostalgia, etc.).

There's something about a battery and having to change it that I find inconvenient even thought I've never had to. I know - totally irrational, but my only quartz watches were tough solar casio's or eco-drives from Citizen.


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## Salmosalar

*Iwc ingenieur homage....*

I would like to suggest a tribute to the IWC INGENIEUR. :-!

The iteration I have in mind is the model prior to the current generation. About 38mm diameter with Faraday soft iron cage about the movement to protect it from magnetism This Faraday cage is then suspended on rubber rings within the main case to protect from physical shocks. Water resistance increased to 300 meters as the original only went to 120 meters. :-!:-!

And a GMT function would be nice. b-)b-)b-)

Thanks. :thanks


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## rmasso

Yao said:


> The reason for quartz is that it is less expensive to do and therefore less expensive to sell. It also ties up less of my capital in a long term project. Also the other point is that a chronograph has many more parts and a more complicated dial (generally). If there is interest I would prefer to start with something simpler like a quartz movement. At this point it is just an idea. I am really curious as to how much interest there would be in such a project.
> 
> Personally I don't like the 7750. I prefer the 2894-2 even though it is a modular chronograph. I probably won't venture into a mechanical chronograph until the unemployment rate actually drops.


Bill,

I fully agree with you and this is why I thought you were going with quartz. Quartz is not bad if priced right. It makes for a tough watch too... Less maintenance costs... Especially on a complicated piece like a chronograph. A quartz chronograph is still a complicated piece of machinery, but much simpler in terms that it won't need adjusting or repair for the most part and its maintenance is a battery change every so often. They are highly accurate, and if it looks like an homage of the Daytona I posted earlier, it would be a great, carefree fun watch to add to any collection.

I can see a 2894-2 Daytona homage go really nice.... modular or not. The biggest issue I have with mechanical chronographs (and mind you I have a few but have sold many also) is that they are very expensive to repair and COA.

Richard


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## Steve356

Ocean 2000 would be awesome. Eterna makes something similar but with a less interesting dial. 
How about combining the 2 Seamaster Projects? I like the thin bezel and dial/hands of the early Seamaster, but the case is really plain. It would be very cool to put that bezel and dial/hands into a later curved lug case. 

Quartz chronograph would be a great replacement for the Lemania 5100 military chronographs. You've got to consider using the ETA quartz movement that has the central minute counter! it's only been used in a few models, like the discontinued Tutima Pacific, Bell&Ross 120, etc. You could recreate Sinn EZM1 or something similar. There's not much out there like it. I think it would be very practical and very popular


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## Bill J

No offense Bill, nothing from the survey appeals to me. Too many watches too close already available. Same goes for quartz chrongraphs, there are a lot of them available already. Sorry


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## Yao

Bill J said:


> No offense Bill, nothing from the survey appeals to me. Too many watches too close already available. Same goes for quartz chrongraphs, there are a lot of them available already. Sorry


No offense taken. Its more important that I hear what you guys are saying. I really wouldn't want you to tell me what you think I wanted to hear.


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## Inq

I think the IWC with a quartz movement like the original and a titanium case would make an excellent project: underated but great design, carefree and not very expensive movement, and military connection.

http://www.iwcforum.com/Articles/OceanBund/text.html


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## Thieuster

I just completed the survey. And once again, I'm very pleased with the fact that Bill is checking with us about his plans!

About the quartz idea: I wouldn't buy a (MKII) watch that's a homage to a vintage watch that was originally built with a mechanical or automatic movement. 
On the other hand, I'm currently looking for a vintage Lip with an 'electric' movement. However, I'm a little uncertain about it: how to service this watch when it's broken... not all watchmakers are able to repair or service these watches. That's where (-imho-) a MKII quartz homage steps in! A MKII homage to an -originally- quartz driven vintage watch would be great!

(Phew, that was not easy expressing this in English - sorry if this posting's text is a little chaotic)

Menno


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## Luso308win

_I vote for the larger and more traditional SM300._
_To have a wearable classic like the SM300, with the MOD dial and hands, would be my choice._
_The "proto" Seamaster, while nice, just doesn't do it for me._

Specially considering the smallish size of it. Make it 41/42mm and I most certanly consider it. Even so, without doubt:

- 300!


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## NWP627

Yao said:


> I probably won't venture into a mechanical chronograph until the unemployment rate actually drops.


 Let's hope the unemployment rate drops quickly! In my opinion putting a quartz movement in a MKII watch is the equivalent of putting a lawn mower engine in a Ferrari 312P Barquetta, not a good fit.
N


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## Luso308win

NWP627 said:


> Let's hope the unemployment rate drops quickly! In my opinion putting a quartz movement in a MKII watch is the equivalent of putting a lawn mower engine in a Ferrari 312P Barquetta, not a good fit.
> N


Exactly. Regarding a MECHANICAL chrono, what about using one of those new movements that Swatch is now marketing, based on a Lemania?
Seems afordable...


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## TheDude

You know I love your stuff Bill, but none of these are super interesting to me either.

I'd love to see something original at some point, your sensibilities and taste would undoubtedly make any original designs a great success and possibly an instant classic.

I've said it here before, but I'd love to see an homage to the old Israeli divers - the IDF Eterna-matic Super Kon-Tiki watches...


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## GraniteQuarry

WiscOmega said:


> I guess I am in the minority, but I really like the IWC Ocean diver. It's retro cool with a highly readable dial ala a Speedmaster without the chrono dials. I guess I have seen so many SM300s out there along with the fakes and homages that another one doesn't do it for me.
> 
> YMMV


+1 couldn't have put it any better IMO ;-)


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## ljg

I like both the Seamaster watches displayed.

But I may be in the minority, but what is really missing from the market right now is a quality, thin (11mm or less) and light (50gram head weight) automatic diver with bezel.
I've seen lots of threads in the dive forum for a watch like this (I'm currently looking too) and no-one (barring a now discontinued Titanium Seamaster Pro) makes one.
So I like either of the two Seamaster watches, but I think MKII already has many thicker and heaver dive watches. At least one lightweight, thin, automatic tool watch would be fantastic!!!

Just my $.02.

P.S. Titanium could always be an option for those that like heaver watches.


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## Quartersawn

ljg said:


> ...but I think MKII already has many thicker and heaver dive watches. At least one lightweight, thin, automatic tool watch would be fantastic!!!


I agree. At the risk of ruffling some feathers I'll admit I honestly don't understand the "big" watch trend. Anything over 40mm is just out of proportion on most wrists (look _objectively_ at some of the wrist shots you see posted on this and other watch forums). A watch over 14mm or so high is just clunky and clumsy feeling, at least to me and my 7.4" wrist.

I understand making a large homage to a large watch but don't get the appeal of taking a nicely sized and proportioned watch and making it substantially larger and chunkier for no reason other than fashion. I suppose some might say it is done to increase sales but without statistical data it is just supposition - it may chase away as many buyers as it attracts.


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## TheDude

ljg said:


> I like both the Seamaster watches displayed.
> 
> But I may be in the minority, but what is really missing from the market right now is a quality, thin (11mm or less) and light (50gram head weight) automatic diver with bezel.
> I've seen lots of threads in the dive forum for a watch like this (I'm currently looking too) and no-one (barring a now discontinued Titanium Seamaster Pro) makes one.
> So I like either of the two Seamaster watches, but I think MKII already has many thicker and heaver dive watches. At least one lightweight, thin, automatic tool watch would be fantastic!!!
> 
> Just my $.02.
> 
> P.S. Titanium could always be an option for those that like heaver watches.


What's wrong with the Kingston? That's 39mm and about as thin as you can reasonably get away with these days.

BTW, titanium is lighter.

Do you know the Bell and Ross Demineur? It's only about 11mm thick. Quartz though, but as professional and as tool as you can get in a modern watch.

I would happily support an original project that sought to reinterpret the modern tool watch. Your parameters are about right, and the watch I mentioned is a good place to start IMO.

http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/showthread.php?t=26905






































http://images.google.com/imgres?img...crosoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&sa=N&start=42&um=1


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## finch

Proto for me:-!,make it not too big & 20mm lugs please,please!!!
don´t like quartz & not a fan of international wc.
& btw millions of swatchs loooking similiar!
just my 2c.

cheers


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## SirRolf

Saxon007 said:


> I agree. At the risk of ruffling some feathers I'll admit I honestly don't understand the "big" watch trend. Anything over 40mm is just out of proportion on most wrists (look _objectively_.


I'll second (or third) that. I have smaller wrists and look just silly with larger watches.  I'd love to see a thinner watch. Maybe that would be where a quartz mechanism could come into play.

Cheers,

Erik


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## psalles

Yao said:


> No offense taken. Its more important that I hear what you guys are saying. I really wouldn't want you to tell me what you think I wanted to hear.


Before thinking about the next project, how about reducing waiting time for actual customers who have paid the money but who are waiting for ever for what they paid for?


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## prometheus

my vote is in :-!


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## the_marlin

Didn't like that IWC the first few times I looked at it but it has since grown on me. Make it a quartz.


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## Galpo

TheDude said:


> I've said it here before, but I'd love to see an homage to the old Israeli divers - the IDF Eterna-matic Super Kon-Tiki watches...


Great Idea! This one is a real classic. I have the original, s/n 375xxx, and it's the best diver I've oned


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## shorinjikempo

give us the 2010 tornek rayville. :-!


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## sfglenrock

Galpo said:


> Great Idea! This one is a real classic. I have the original, s/n 375xxx, and it's the best diver I've oned


+1 on the Super KonTiki. A great looking dive watch.


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## colinman.77

Seconded. This is tied with the Seamaster 300 for my favorite watch of all time.



TheDude said:


> You know I love your stuff Bill, but none of these are super interesting to me either.
> 
> I'd love to see something original at some point, your sensibilities and taste would undoubtedly make any original designs a great success and possibly an instant classic.
> 
> I've said it here before, but I'd love to see an homage to the old Israeli divers - the IDF Eterna-matic Super Kon-Tiki watches...


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## Yao

psalles said:


> Before thinking about the next project, how about reducing waiting time for actual customers who have paid the money but who are waiting for ever for what they paid for?


The answer is simple. Unfortunately good suppliers' lead times can be 3-6 months. The crowns for the Kingston are already 2 months late for example. Many times you have to plan 1 year in advance, sometimes more. For example to do a mechanical chronograph I would probably have to plan 2 years out.

The projects proposed won't be out until late 2010 or first half of 2011. This is just planning. I have already reduced the number of watches scheduled to be delivered in the first half of next year so that lead times can become more accurate. This unfortunately will likely increase lead times for custom watches. In addition there is about 3-4 weeks of slack built into the last month of the year and the first half of January to get the backlog cleared out. To decrease overall lead time while maintaining quality requires that I train new staff, that can take 6-12 months to train a good candidate.

I hope that that answer will satisfy you that this issue is being taken care of but it does take time for them to take effect. Planning is a necessity and has to be done concurrently with dealing with delivery issues.


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## JDS (Ohio)

I put my $0.02 in. It's good to see that you are moving to a brighter and longer lasting lume, though to be honest I've never yet lived day to day with a watch using the BG-W9.


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## es335

Build this and they will come:


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## kkmark

I voted for the IWC. That would be an awesome watch in ti.

Proto-seamaster and SM 300 seem nice but am not convinced.

I suggested the BP Air Command as an alternate, but that may be a long shot.


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## TACSTS

IWC! In Ti would be even better. I could see myself on a preorder list already.


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## Donald Grant

I like the IWC Kampfschwimer. Very cool. The other pieces are nice too, but the kampfschwimmer is so damn cool.


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## Denizen

*#1 Super Kon-tiki, #2 IWC*

the IDF Super Kon-Tiki would be my first pick. i've wanted to own an original but hard to find one in nice condition with a full bracelet. a hommage would be sweeeet!
.
.
.
#2 would be the Ocean 2000 BUT only it is a 42mm case and 22mm bracelet, as that is what the original was. and of course, titanium all the way. and mechanical please, no quartz. a pvd bezel like the Bunds would be a final feather in the cap.

some years after their partnership ended, Porsche Design (Eterna) did a 40mm diver (w/20mm lugs) that was loosely derived from the Ocean 2000 and it wasn't anywhere close.

the other two projects in the survey don't really do it for me unfortunately.


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## dnpina

My vote went for the Seamaster. Man, ive been waiting on that like forever. I hope it makes the cut. 

danny


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## oxford_guy

messenius said:


> All this sounds very very promising
> 
> I voted proto Seamaster as my first choice. Don't you just love the plastic shiny bezel b-)
> 
> As a dial and hands choice the arrow hands would be great á la railmaster and ranchero
> 
> here is a link for a first gen seamaster 300 with railmaster
> 
> http://www.chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?noframes;read=10424


Wow! I love the look of the proto Seamaster, ahve also voted for this as my first choice...


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## es335

Watchamacallit said:


> OMG that proto Seamaster is _so_ gorgeous.
> 
> I'm tempted to complete the survey with every e-mail address at my disposal ...


My issue with the "proto" transitional version above is that the bezel numerals are so miniscule as to be non-functional in a dive environment. Form does not follow function here, and the production of this piece would be more of a fashion watch with a "rare transitional wow factor." It's important to remember this flawed design was discarded and is not remembered as fondly as its much improved mid-late 60s successor.

Therefore, this is why the mid-late 60s Seamaster 300 reference, with its larger bezel numerals and sword hour hand, is a far superior approach to tackle the functions it was designed to perform (diving) and likely to sell more units for MKII. Couple this with the fact that Omega discontinued the modern day classic 2254.50, and I think you will have demand for the sword hand look. You can't even buy a sword hand modern day Omega anymore, all the references are discontinued and being phased out. Amazing!

See below for the "classic" Seamaster 300 approach, which I believe will yield more sales and profit for MKII:


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## Yao

es335 said:


> My issue with the "proto" transitional version above is that the bezel numerals are so miniscule as to be non-functional in a dive environment. Form does not follow function here, and the production of this piece would be more of a fashion watch with a "rare transitional wow factor." It's important to remember this flawed design was discarded and is not remembered as fondly as its much improved mid-late 60s successor.
> 
> Therefore, this is why the mid-late 60s Seamaster 300 reference, with its larger bezel numerals and sword hour hand, is a far superior approach to tackle the functions it was designed to perform (diving) and likely to sell more units for MKII. Couple this with the fact that Omega discontinued the modern day classic 2254.50, and I think you will have demand for the sword hand look. You can't even buy a sword hand modern day Omega anymore, all the references are discontinued and being phased out. Amazing!
> 
> See below for the "classic" Seamaster 300 approach, which I believe will yield more sales and profit for MKII:


I think it would be important to note that the Proto-SM and the IWC leave 
more room for improvement. If those projects met a minimum level of interest I would actually spend more time addressing the design. Flaws like the size of the numerals on the Proto-SM would be addressed by making the insert wider and the steel section smaller. On a personal note these would make the projects more interesting/challenging for me.

The SM300 is less interesting in the sense that there isn't really much that stands improvement. If the SM300 is the "winner" my intention would be to do it as a Limited Edition because there isn't as much value for me to add as a designer.


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## sunster

Yao said:


> The SM300 is less interesting in the sense that there isn't really much that stands improvement. If the SM300 is the "winner" my intention would be to do it as a Limited Edition because there isn't as much value for me to add as a designer.


I'd add that there's already a pretty good homage on sale of the SM300(maybe more) and that also may make it less interesting in terms of artistic value


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## es335

Yao said:


> I think it would be important to note that the Proto-SM and the IWC leave
> more room for improvement. If those projects met a minimum level of interest I would actually spend more time addressing the design. Flaws like the size of the numerals on the Proto-SM would be addressed by making the insert wider and the steel section smaller.


If you make the insert wider, and the steel section smaller, then you have a mid-late 60s Seamaster 300 anyway. You end up with something like this:


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## Yao

sunster said:


> I'd add that there's already a pretty good homage on sale of the SM300(maybe more) and that also may make it less interesting in terms of artistic value


Perhaps....but I don't think Timefactors has any stock or has a timetable to re-stock at this point. If I wrong kindly let me know.


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## Yao

es335 said:


> If you make the insert wider, and the steel section smaller, then you have a mid-late 60s Seamaster 300 anyway. You end up with something like this:


Well not exactly. There would still be significant differences.


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## number2

Yao said:


> The SM300 is less interesting in the sense that there isn't really much that stands improvement. If the SM300 is the "winner" my intention would be to do it as a Limited Edition because there isn't as much value for me to add as a designer.


Not to offend the artist/designer in you, but the fact that "there isn't really much that stands improvement" in my view, is one of the reasons to pay homage to the SM300.
It'd worry me to put an original SM300 in water for fear of its degraded water tightness.
The Planet Oceans have that tacky HEV.
I'm sure you could add aspects to the SM300 that would make it, however slightly, better and definitely more wearable for the current generation.

SM300 Please.


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## NWP627

Yao said:


> If the SM300 is the "winner" my intention would be to do it as a Limited Edition because there isn't as much value for me to add as a designer.


Bill, design, design, design the IWC and make a perfect MKII design.
Thanks
N


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## Yao

number2 said:


> Not to offend the artist/designer in you, but the fact that "there isn't really much that stands improvement" in my view, is one of the reasons to pay homage to the SM300.
> It'd worry me to put an original SM300 in water for fear of its degraded water tightness.
> The Planet Oceans have that tacky HEV.
> I'm sure you could add aspects to the SM300 that would make it, however slightly, better and definitely more wearable for the current generation.
> 
> SM300 Please.





NWP627 said:


> Bill, design, design, design the IWC and make a perfect MKII design.
> Thanks
> N


We'll see how the survey turns out. But if the SM300 "wins" we will move it to the next stage which is a slightly more detailed survey and then deposits if it makes it to the third stage. But the issue will be decided by the end of January.

There may be a way as I toss around the ideas in my head to give you both what you may want....again depending on how the survey actually turns out. I have been considering the idea of doing an "annual" LE that is forumer/customer driven and then doing a separate project that allows me more "license" and would be considered for standard production. Eventually we will run out of good vintage stuff to work from so its time to begin the process of more independent design. Its just an idea at this point. I really have to re-examine how I budget out my time so I don't bite off more than I can chew.

I have to complete a shipment for one of my dealers. After that I got about 10-14 watches that are 3/4 ths finished that need my attention.


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## es335

Yao said:


> We'll see how the survey turns out. But if the SM300 "wins" we will move it to the next stage which is a slightly more detailed survey and then deposits if it makes it to the third stage. But the issue will be decided by the end of January.
> 
> There may be a way as I toss around the ideas in my head to give you both what you may want....again depending on how the survey actually turns out. I have been considering the idea of doing an "annual" LE that is forumer/customer driven and then doing a separate project that allows me more "license" and would be considered for standard production. Eventually we will run out of good vintage stuff to work from so its time to begin the process of more independent design. Its just an idea at this point. I really have to re-examine how I budget out my time so I don't bite off more than I can chew.
> 
> I have to complete a shipment for one of my dealers. After that I got about 10-14 watches that are 3/4 ths finished that need my attention.


A MKII SM300 in the $800-1000 range would be a compelling value proposition:

a) Watchco version made from NOS parts and old movement available in limited supplies for about $2200k.
b) Omega has discontinued all sword hand watches, including the much admired 2254.50. The Planet Ocean, which remains in production, is a hodgepodge of old Omega design elements and contains a cheesy HRV and feminine white gold hour surrounds.
c) Precista not in production and doesn't offer date and metal bracelet etc. Quality not as good as MKII.


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## Dennis Smith

I think the proposed designs are too similar to current line or produced by others already, but the 300 would be most popular and sell the best.

I would like to see one or more of your current offerings with titanium case option.
I am looking forward to a TR with date :-!

Am still looking for your input on this O&W Early Bird hommage discussion (from the 24 hour forum). It would be a truly original homage project, using the MMT case. Feel free to post on the thread or email or PM me please :thanks

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=324996


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## Yao

Dennis Smith said:


> I think the proposed designs are too similar to current line or produced by others already, but the 300 would be most popular and sell the best.
> 
> I would like to see one or more of your current offerings with titanium case option.
> I am looking forward to a TR with date :-!
> 
> Am still looking for your input on this O&W Early Bird hommage discussion (from the 24 hour forum). It would be a truly original homage project, using the MMT case. Feel free to post on the thread or email or PM me please :thanks
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=324996


Thanks for your input and thanks for the reminder Dennis.


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## Dennis Smith

Thanks for your input! And I replied to your post in the 24 Forum, asking if maybe the Paradive case would work with the 2893?


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## bakuma

*Re: SM300 LE*

Can you clarify what you mean here? Having owned both a PRS-14 and a Stingray (and opened and examined both), I'd say quality is quite similar. Have you owned a Fricker-made Timefactors?



es335 said:


> Quality not as good as MKII.


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## es335

*Re: SM300 LE*



bakuma said:


> Can you clarify what you mean here? Having owned both a PRS-14 and a Stingray (and opened and examined both), I'd say quality is quite similar. Have you owned a Fricker-made Timefactors?


Should have qualified my statement as "based on reviews I've read about the respective quality control of both watchmakers."

There is a review online of the Precista which says the lume was awful and the movement was 15 seconds out of wack per day.

In contrast, I've read reviews that praise Bill for his perfectionist attention to the smallest detail and his precise regulation process, resulting in MKII watches achieving COSC accuracy despite non being COSC certified movements.


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## Andre B

Done


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## Luso308win

*Re: SM300 LE*



es335 said:


> Should have qualified my statement as "based on reviews I've read about the respective quality control of both watchmakers."
> 
> There is a review online of the Precista which says the lume was awful and the movement was 15 seconds out of wack per day.
> 
> In contrast, I've read reviews that praise Bill for his perfectionist attention to the smallest detail and his precise regulation process, resulting in MKII watches achieving COSC accuracy despite non being COSC certified movements.


I had a PRS-14 and I was very underwelmed for what I got. Although there was any question on my mind regarding the quality of construction of the case itself, the watch as a whole, did not please me: top heavy (too tall for its width?) thick with a bezel that did not prevent the crystal from being scratched (a domed crystal can provide a slimmer case, as it will be scratched anyway) and the lume was indeed poor. The lume of the bezel was almost symbolic, to the point of being irrelevant. The movement had and antimagnetic cover but I would give it up in order to have a slimmer case. The accuracy was also nothing to brag about either (more than 15sec/day). The crown was also small and not very confortable to use. 
Like I said, very good construction, very good looks, flawed overall design.


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## Quartersawn

I have a PRS-17A, I absolutely love it. Its a solid watch, the lume on mine is nice and bright and glows all night. I can still read the watch in the dark when my alarm goes off in the morning 7 hours later (although the bezel pip is tiny and weak). Size is just about perfect for my 7.35" wrist, quite legible without being huge and blingy.

But it does run 20 seconds fast. Someday I'll regulate it but its fine for what it is, my weekend errands/fishing/hunting/cleaning the garage watch.


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## ntr

es335 said:


> A MKII SM300 in the $800-1000 range would be a compelling value proposition:


I guess it would...

As far as I'm concerned, I guess I could still hesitate with a Watchco though...TBC..

No interest in the IWC at all and no real interest in the proto as well (apart the thinner case?).

As I've previously said, I feel an hommage to Milsubs (either Rolex or Tudor, depending on the dial and on the insert..) would have been/be interesting...

Take a Kingston case, put some crownguards, a 5517 style insert, various dials ad hands (snowflakes or classical, black or blue dials, swords or mercedes hands), eventually skip the drilled lugs... and I feel people would come... because you will offer a higher quality

I know there is already the LRRP/MILSUB but I rather see it as a modern inspiration of the 5517 due to the bigger case, crownguards and lugs

Should you go one day for an hommage for a Kontiki, this one is rather nice










(CR Ludi13, MDP?)


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## oldsmobile1979

I went with the proto seamaster. as the watchco sm300 are still available, and the precista model can still be found so they are a couple of options for that watch already.

proto seamaster

thanks,
wade


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## goz211

Bill,

I originally voted for the Proto Seamaster. That would be a great homage watch. However, I've changed my mind. There are just so many similar choices to the Seamaster diver design.
The IWC design is more interesting.
Whatever you choose, I'm sure it will be outstanding.:-!


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## Yao

we will be moving the SM300 to the next stage. I will likely skip an additional survey as it seems that everyone wants a watch as close as possible to the original, meaning that there won't be much room for interpretation anyway.

In the next 2-3 weeks I will put up a page and begin the process of taking deposits for a limited edition of 300-350 pieces. The deposits will be refundable initially. If a sufficient number of deposits are received then we will begin the design work. Given the workload that is anticipated in Q1 of 2010 the interest has to preceed any work beginning.

For the Kingston project please understand that it will still receive priority over any potential work on the SM300 and that at this stage we are still only at the planning level.


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## es335

Awesome news!


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## bakuma

*Re: SM300 and....*

Bill: I appreciate your responsiveness to your market, and I'm sure you will do a great job on a SM300 homage, and that it will sell out like the Stingray did. Although I don't know your business model I know you are small and need the cash flow of deposits/ready sales, but I'm wondering whether you have the room to do what may be slower-selling models alongside your more popular ones. You could go forward with the SM300 and then do the proto SM on a more relaxed schedule. My guess is that the latter would sell, though maybe not as quickly as the former. Like the Stingray, you could do a factory-assembled option to keep the price around $600. This project would be an attractive prospect for those of us who like the vintage look and are getting a little burned out on hockey-puck divers from boutique marketers, and it provides the more interesting design input you mentioned.

Paul


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## clarencek

Argh - I'm so diappointed! I just got the "Project 300" email for the Proto Seamaster 300 and it's not this one. :-(


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## Thieuster

I just sent the deposit! Man, this watch is just what I want. The other day, I was looking for a Watchco version; I'm glad I didn't go with that. I prefer a MKII!

Menno


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## Luso308win

Thieuster said:


> I just sent the deposit! Man, this watch is just what I want. The other day, I was looking for a Watchco version; I'm glad I didn't go with that. I prefer a MKII!
> 
> Menno


I´ve just been told about the price.
What a cold water shower!:-(
Without doubting for a minute about MKII´s quality, for the same amount I would rather buy a 2254.50.
My budget would accept something around USD$600 but NEVER twice that amount.
There is a maker that already offers a watch with most of the tecnical specifications of the eventual MKII 300 for USD$550.
I am really very sad...


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## Quartersawn

clarencek said:


> Argh - I'm so diappointed! I just got the "Project 300" email for the Proto Seamaster 300 and it's not this one. :-(


I was hoping for this one too. I like the watch offered - its a great looking piece - but it is too big and clunky for my tastes so I'll have to see what 2011 offers.

The Kingston will work for me this year.


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## sunster

Saxon007 said:


> I was hoping for this one too. I like the watch offered - its a great looking piece - but it is too big and clunky for my tastes so I'll have to see what 2011 offers.
> 
> The Kingston will work for me this year.


My thoughts likewise. Looking forward to my Kingston. I have to say that I've not enjoyed waiting. I guess this kind of thing suits some people but not me. The Kingston is a one off but I doubt I'd be prepared to wait a year or so for a sm300 clone at that price. I'm sure it'll be a great watch though no doubt


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## dnpina

I just sent my deposit. Ive got three MKIIIs on order. kingston, quad 10 and now my very special 300. custom watches . awesome. Im just pleased right now. I'll just have to sit patiently. 

dp


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## Thieuster

Yep, I'm also on three waiting lists: Kingston (plank owner), TR and now the SM300. I know I will get what I paid for: first class products. I don't mind waiting.

Menno


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## JDS (Ohio)

In contrast, I am on the fence. It looks inviting especiallly the lumed bezel insert, but I do alreadyy have a LRRP with sword hands and a sword hand Seamaster. Plus, I am still waiting patiently for the Kingston, and planning another, fairly expensive (for me that is) watch puchase this year. A shame I can't just buy each one that catches my fancy!b-)


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## ntr

JDS (Ohio) said:


> In contrast, I am on the fence. It looks inviting especiallly the lumed bezel insert, but I do alreadyy have a LRRP with sword hands and a sword hand Seamaster. Plus, I am still waiting patiently for the Kingston, and planning another, fairly expensive (for me that is) watch puchase this year. A shame I can't just buy each one that catches my fancy!b-)


are any drawings of this project already available ?


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## Kent108

I highly doubt it, but between the specs and Bill's stated intention of making this as close to the original as possible, I'm sure we get an idea of how it will look.




ntr said:


> are any drawings of this project already available ?


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## Farrell

Wow, didn't look at this thread, wishing I had

Could I get sent the link or whatever for this? Also I admit to speed reading but is this going to be the date version or not? No date stopped me buying one of Eddie's SM300 homages.


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## Farrell

es335 said:


> c) Precista.... Quality not as good as MKII.


:think:


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## ianmont

Am I missing something here, where do I get the chance to put a deposit down on this watch, I WANT one!

Regards, Ian


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## Yao

ianmont said:


> Am I missing something here, where do I get the chance to put a deposit down on this watch, I WANT one!
> 
> Regards, Ian


Here is the link to the private page to submit deposits. I wanted to give the guys that took the survey first crack. I am pretty sure that at this point that everyone that took the survey that wanted to submit a deposit has already done so.

Project 300

The page will be published publicly on our site on Monday/Tuesday.

So far participation looks promising but if your interested in this project it would be best to submit interest now rather than wait for pictures (deposits are refundable until the design is finalized). If the interest isn't strong enough we probably won't make it to the design phase. As I explained in the e-mail that went out to those that took the survey the design is significantly complicated and our schedule for the first half of the year so full that we can't begin development in advance of there being verified interest.

I will post the contents of the e-mail that went out next. Thanks for reading and for your support guys.


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## Yao

Here is the text of the e-mail with some more details on the project and how I arrived at the structure:

_There was sufficient interest in an homage to the Omega Seamaster 300 for us to take it to the next stage. Detailed in the link below (click the banner) Project 300 will be a limited edition project sponsored by our customers. The page below is not visible yet on our site in order to present the first opportunity to sign on to this project to those that took the time to take the survey. Here are some more details about the project:_​

_I decided against using Tititanium as an option. Based on the size of the production and the quality level of the supplier that I want to use Titianium would have been prohibitively expensive. So we will be using stainless steel._
_The plank owner package is not as generous as it was for the Kingston project because of the higher quality of the case that we will use for this watch._
_The project could theoretically be done less expensively but it would mean using untested suppliers. For a customer sponsored project I thought it best to use tried and tested suppliers even though it would mean a higher cost. Fortunately the higher cost will also result in a higher quality case so the trade-off is balanced out by what should be a superior finished product._
_I have decided that it will be okay to produce a watch that is very similar to the original, while choosing to make subtle changes to the design to differentiate it from the original. My reasoning is based on the fact that the replica market is already saturated with fake vintage Seamaster 300s. Given the cost of our watch it is extremely unlikely that it will be cost effective for fakers to use Project 300 as a platform for a fake SM300. Essentially there are cheaper and more accurate copies of the SM300 for a criminal to use to create a fake SM300 than the Project 300 would be. So there *will not * be any additions to the project such as the HRV that was contemplated earlier or moving the crown to the 4 o'clock position. I think it will be sufficient to just change the crystal material, the luminous pattern on the insert, and other subtle changes to distinguish the Project 300 from the orignal._


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## bompi

Well, I couldn't resist ... I'm in as well |>


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## bompi

By the way, I wonder whether a nice mesh bracelet would be a nice choice for _our_ SM300-like ? We still have to get it a nice name as well.


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## MonroeA

I'm in as well.  I have desired this watch for a long time.


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## bpax

Me too. Too great to pass up.


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## HappyJack

steve356 said:


> quartz chronograph would be a great replacement for the lemania 5100 military chronographs. You've got to consider using the eta quartz movement that has the central minute counter! It's only been used in a few models, like the discontinued tutima pacific, bell&ross 120, etc. You could recreate sinn ezm1 or something similar. There's not much out there like it. I think it would be very practical and very popular


+1


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## Marc7300

+1 for EZM1... but for now it think it will only be a dream...


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## jarhead5345

Based on the cost I would hope that the SM300 project is a water resistant to 300 meters.


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## oxford_guy

jarhead5345 said:


> Based on the cost I would hope that the SM300 project is a water resistant to 300 meters.


I'm pretty sure if would!


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## jarhead5345

Bill,
I was happy to get in on the SM300 project, I know there was some discussion about reducing the cost; I don't think the quality should be reduced from the goals set forth in your outline of the project, I would definitely want to keep the CNC machined case for example. I don't mind paying a little more for a higher quality piece, just my input... Thanks..

Brian


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## LAPD

bompi said:


> By the way, I wonder whether a nice mesh bracelet would be a nice choice for _our_ SM300-like ? We still have to get it a nice name as well.


Some watches look very nice on a mesh strap, specially mirrored finished ones, I guess we'll vae to see what Bill thinks about this.

For a name I thought of keeping it simple on the Dial:

The beautiful "MIIK" with the II larger than the M and K.
the letters "Automatic" under that, similar T with in a circle.

and then "Project 300" with maybe a nice font.

What do you guys think?

Suggestions...b-)


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## jcc456

I like "Project 300" or "Pro 300". In RED!!!!


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## k1gordon

I agree with "*Project 300*"


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## sotomakikomi

Hi! I think this is the perfect military watch, and everytime I see that "300" it reminds me of the spartans, the best warriors. So what do you think of "MKII Leonidas" or maybe "MKII Molon Labe"?. Just an Idea.


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## bompi

I agree upon "Project 300" as well.


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## nsmike

I've always liked the proportions of the Mido Multifort Super Automatic. I wonder what it would look like supersized to say 39 to 42 mm. With the larger size it would be a natural for a MKII dial. the original was quite thick so you could get some of the Sea Dweller effect. The octaganal case would be somewhat different.


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## nsmike

Just a quick addenduem. The watch shown is 29mm with 16mm lugs some quick math shows that a 40mm watch with 22mm lugs would have the same proportions.


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## tlshepherd

This may have already been suggested but I'm just too lazy to read all 110 replies to find out. How about using the Kingston platform to build an homage to the Rolex ref. 6542 - the 1958 no crown guard GMT Master? I assume that much of the design work would already be done with significant changes being the bezel insert, dial, hands and movement. I think it would make a truly unique watch and would compliment the Kingston nicely. Just my 2c worth. Tom



Yao said:


> Its time to start thinking about 2010. While the projects proposed in this survey probably will not make it to market until early 2011 its time again for me to begin planning for the upcoming year.
> 
> If you have a few moments your input is, as always, appreciated.
> 
> Survey


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## pupuek

+1 eterna matic super kontiki :-!


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## Duarte

+1 on the Eterna Super K


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## Joe K.

Its a nice watch (believe me I know, I have 2 of these), but Eterna just did a limited edition reissue. So I am not sure the timing is right...:think:



pupuek said:


> +1 eterna matic super kontiki :-!


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