# Do You Consider Breitling to be High End?



## jw3571

I noticed on the High end forum that someone mentioned they don't consider Breitling to be high end. Do you agree or disagree? They went on to say that they consider the Bentley line to be a gimmick. I was curious to see if people on here agreed.


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## Pietermann

It all depends on how mutch money you have on your bank account...


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## markdeerhunter

Pietermann said:


> It all depends on how mutch money you have on your bank account...


Exactly correct. They may not be everyones favorite style but they are very nice high end watches. That is, unless you are some kind of watch snob or an oil sheik. Several thousand dollar watches are definitely high end.


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## Fordham-NY

I'd group brands like Patek, etc., above Breitling, Omega, TAG, but Breitling is certainly a high end luxury watch. That's based on price, brand reputation, function/features, craftsmanship. 

I don't think most people consider actually buying/wearing such an expensive watch; when I look around I see many, many more watches sold at Macy's or some other regular department store. They are certainly extravagant... unless you are a watch snob or an oil Sheik!


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## Fordham-NY

2x


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## jiber172r

To some people Patek is high end, to others a Seiko is high end. It's all relative. IMO, Breitling is a high end watch. Is it in the league of a Patek, JLC or Rolex? In* MY* personal opinion...No.


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## wuyeah

Any pieces that are MSRP at 2K5+ I'll consider as high-end.


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## jojo

absolutely in the beginning breitling was equal to most other hi end brands. 
but to be honest after the bad years in the 70 they did first achieve the finest status when they manufactured the own movement

look at the very nice Venus and Valjoux used by most of the other brands including breitling, 
apart from the work that breitling refined the movements in the wintage watches like the venus 178
sorry bad pic 



regards jonas


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## Spit161

The 'level's of each brand will be subjective, depending on how easy it is for the owner of the watch to get the money, and what the owner classes as expensive.
For example, for someone that earns £11k p/a something like a Citizen Skyhawk AT ( around £300) may be 'high end'.
Whereas, someone who earns £80k p/a, a Patek Philippe Calatrava ( £8-10000) may be 'high end'.

cheers.


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## jojo

sorry but i disagree abut the money being the bench mark

rather technicality during manufacturing and in-house service is a more true way to determine if or not its a *high*-*end watch*


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## homathetes

For me, yes (high end in my tiny collection!); in the scheme of horology, no. The objective differences between indisputable high-end brands such as Lange and Patek vs. Breitling, Omega, Rolex are so manifest that IMHO it really is untenable to maintain they are on the same level as mid-range brands. I'm a big 'ling fanboy, but facts is facts.


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## SnapIT

I consider atomic clocks high end. All other watches/clocks are time pieces within a budget. The LHC in Switzerland and France is high end. 
This is high end .... Has Quest for the Elusive 'God Particle' Succeeded? - FoxNews.com


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## Novacastrian

Seems to depend on a bunch of variables: workmanship, cost, one's own personal budget, history and tradition, how the brand is perceived at large and how the individual perceives the brand. That makes it a really subjective thing. For example, even within this thread some think Rolex is in the Breitling mid range bracket and others put it in the higher bracket. 

For me... i'd say it's in the mid range of quality watches. Not in the PP/ AP/ VC range but better than Rado, Raymond Weil, Tissot, Tag and Longines (just my perspective).

As an aside, when i explain watches to non WIS friends I'll often suggest a watch brand as being roughly equivalent to a particular brand of car. What kind of car do you see Breitling as? (For me its not Bentley, it's Porsche).
Greg


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## Spit161

So, you don't think money has any bearing on what is 'high end'?
I'm going to have to disagree with you, sorry. As others on here have said, money pays a vital part in what is high end.
In my opinion, what your saying is that if a brand has their own movements, they are high-end? So if Timex made they're own movement, yet sold it for £60, it would suddenly be classed as high-end? Sorry, but I think not.


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## Watchbreath

The boys at Shop NBC think Invicta is high end.


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## Guarionex

Watchbreath said:


> The boys at Shop NBC think Invicta is high end.


Hey! I just traded my Breitling for an Invicta.

Just kidding.

Sent from my Garminfone using Forum Runner


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## jojo

Spit161 said:


> So, you don't think money has any bearing on what is 'high end'?
> I'm going to have to disagree with you, sorry. As others on here have said, money pays a vital part in what is high end.
> In my opinion, what your saying is that if a brand has their own movements, they are high-end? So if Timex made they're own movement, yet sold it for £60, it would suddenly be classed as high-end? Sorry, but I think not.


 No but i do not think that à Quartz full of Diamonds made for bling bling rather than beeing à watch à high end regardless
If it at 15k or more.

So its not money that set the standards

But if you folow the tread from the begining breitling is defenently à high end now whith the 01movement and thats My opinion corect me if i am wrong
Jonas


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## martin_blank

isnt there a literal definiation for high end? i read somewhere its brands with an entry level model over a certain dollar amount..

and cost to the purchaser isnt really valid imo. i mean if you are rich enough a 20,000 dollar Patek isnt really costly to you but its no question a high end watch.


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## Guarionex

Pietermann said:


> It all depends on how mutch money you have on your bank account...


I agree with Pietermann and Martin, it all matters on what you can afford and make of it. If you can easily drop 20 grand on a simple looking Patek watch and you can easily afford it, then 20 grand isnt much.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/high-end

Definition of _HIGH-END_
Of superior quality or sophistication and usually high in price ,(Superior Quality? I think Breitling fits in this)


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## Mr modnaR

Guarionex said:


> I agree with Pietermann and Martin, it all matters on what you can afford and make of it. If you can easily drop 20 grand on a simple looking Patek watch and you can easily afford it, then 20 grand isnt much.
> 
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/high-end
> 
> Definition of _HIGH-END_
> Of superior quality or sophistication and usually high in price ,(Superior Quality? I think Breitling fits in this)


If you're saying price is the deciding factor, then saying 'if you can easily drop 20 grand...', that is contradictory IMO. If you can 'drop 20 grand', then the cost of the watch is no longer the yardstick by which you are measuring the quality of a watch and you are in fact suggesting there is another scale on which the quality of watch movements are measured, with which I agree!

To me watchmaking is a craft, and there are factual (and measurable) technical reasons for one watch movement being more advanced than another, and therefore more 'high end'. These technical reasons are more difficult to achieve and therefore affect the price, which is why higher end watches cost more. Of course, there are other factors, such as the inclusion of diamonds, gold etc. or 'brand image' that will affect peoples' opinion on what constitutes high end, but just because people believe something makes a difference to quality, it does not make it factually so. May I suggest people read Walt Odets' articles on the 'Horologium' website to have some idea of the differences between 'high end' and 'mid range'. Sadly, he has yet to strip down a Breitling B01 movement, but here's hoping!


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## jstawasz

There are two classes of high end. Mass produced and Hand crafted. I think Breitling fits in with the mass produced High End.

Joe


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## Spit161

Jonas, Breitling is definitely a high-end brand with the 01 and 04 Calibers. 
These watches are, for sure, high-end, theres no doubt about it.

Cheers.


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## MGtheGreat

to me,is breitling high end?no.do they produce watches that have hand finishings and produce horological innovations?no..but in the eyes of the owner,is the watch priceless?yes.


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## O2AFAC67

MGtheGreat said:


> to me,is breitling high end?no.do they produce watches that have hand finishings and produce horological innovations?no..but in the eyes of the owner,is the watch priceless?yes.


To me, is breitling high end? Yes. Do they produce watches that have hand finishings and produce horological innovations? Yes. ...but in the eyes of the owner, is the watch priceless? No.


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## Mercmanuk

It's probably different depending on which side of the water your on in England there are not that many knocking about, and most people have never seen one in the flesh, also 2.5k+ for a watch is high end, personal taste leads me to Brietling, rolex are boring, omega are boring, and some I can not Evan pronouce look like the fell out of a lucky bag, not much bang for you buck, breitling on the other hand deliver for me personally, and I have a small collection, which I wear every day and like them lot, personal taste, I could throw 20k at a audenmoore pigpot but I can not pronounce it,and neither do I like them.

A bit tonge and cheek there no offence to any owners intended, 


Merc


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## LFCRules

High-end is in the eye of the beholder, and as such is a discussion which will never end. Everyone is right, noone is wrong, or is it the opposite 

If I had a pigpot, or one of phillips pancakes, or whether I stick with my B's, it's what I like and I want that's important ;-)


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## Sabresoft

I would define low end as below $100. A broad category between that and $999 as mid range, that could be subdivided into several sub categories. Watches over $1000 bucks are high end. Obviously someone who could afford a Zenith Grande Class Traveller ($600,000 - 3 made per year) might look down their noses at a mere $10,000 Breitling as being not worthy of being considered as high end. But in the real world where most people and many of us watch nuts reside $1000 plus watches are high end. 

Individually we might move that barrier up or down a little depending on our own perceptions, and certainly we may feel that hand made pieces are "higher end" than more mass manufactured brands. 

Also dollar (or pound, euro, ruble, etc) cost is not an absolute identifier as there are some relatively low grade items being flogged at outrageous prices, and some quite amazing product at quite reasonable prices. 

Then too is a multi-thousand dollar watch of mediocre caliber but blingged up with gold and diamonds more high end than say a cheaper but much more serious watch housed in a plain Jane (but well built) stainless steel case, such as my Sinn UX? Depends if you value a watch as a watch or as jewelry. 

To say that a Breitling isn't high end is like saying millionaires aren't rich, only billionaires are. It's all a matter of degree, but at some point raising the definition point too high becomes rather pointless. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dianetix

^ Very well worded response. I'd have to agree completely.


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## georges zaslavsky

well alongwith the breitling mulliner flying tourbillon made by renaud & papi and pieces like the navitimer limited edition with the b01, the limited edition transocean b01 and the chronomat gmt with the b04, breitling is on par with IWC, JLC, omega and rolex very easily. The breitling models with the eta based movements are not really comparable to manufactured movements but from a quality/price ratio standpoint, breitling offers a lot for the money including a top notch after sales quality service.


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## ForGoodnessSeiko

I don't consider any "regular" brand to be "high end".
To explain what I mean... 
Rolex Deepsea: High end. Rolex Air King: Not.
Breitling Navitimer: High end. Breitling SO II "Abyss": Not.
Omega PloProf: High end. Omega SMP: Not.

All these brands (and there are more  ) have "high end" watches but they are brought down from "high end" status by their "lower end" that invariably cater for "new money" fashion followers...

Brands like Patek, JLC and TAG don't count as they're either "too posh" or "rubbish". You decide which is which. 
I like Breitling.


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## EF76

High end is a state of mind. A matter of perspective... The watch community, just like any other passionate group of enthusiasts, will always want to define what is and what is not "high end' or desirable. Coming from a racing background, which is also full of passionate, over-opinionated, enthusiasts, I have a "run what you brung" mental. I don't care if you spent $100 or $100,000. If you like it and it makes you feel like a winner, run it. Run it with pride.


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## 13th

jiber172r said:


> To some people Patek is high end, to others a Seiko is high end. It's all relative. IMO, Breitling is a high end watch. Is it in the league of a Patek, JLC or Rolex? In* MY* personal opinion...No.


Patek, JLC league... maybe not.

But surely it's in the same league with Rolex. Even tho it might not have the brand name recognition of Rolex, it has beauty on its side. Also same league with the likes of Omega and IWC, imho. And above TAG & Longines and such.

But, as it's been said, it's all relative. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and for me there's no Patek that makes me go "wooooow" from a design pov, while there are a couple of omega's and breitling's that have that effect. And no matter what's under the hood, if I don't LOVE the way the watch looks, it's wasted on me.

And while my most expensive watch is merely an Omega, I have this feeling that no matter how much moneys I will ever have, I would rather get a couple of "lower-end" breitlings and omega's rather then a single patek  Now let's just hope that one day I'll have to make that tough decision


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## iim7v7im7

Interesting and likely unanswerable question...

Breitling is...

- An independent watch company like _Audemars Piguet, Chopard, Patek Phillipe, Rolex_ and _Ulysse Nardin_
- A company who produces 100,000s+ of watches every year like _Omega, Rolex_ and _TAG Heuer_
- Uses ETA movements and has developed a few in-house like _IWC, Omega, Panerai_ and _Ulysse Nardin_
- Has many watches with an aviation motif like _IWC _
_-_ Most of its line is steel with some precious metal
_-_ Distributes its line through ADs who regularly discount like many other brands
- Sells watches between $3-$40k with most watches between $3-$7k

So does that make it a "high-end" watch company? To some yes, and to others no. I think of Breitling in this way:

- Independent
- High volume 
- Aviation 
- Good quality control & service

All producers are a bit different in their focus and which segment they cater to. I think that Breitling certainly makes high-end watches within its line as opposed to its entire line. In the end, that becomes the real difference between companies. The greater the percentage of the line is made from precious metals, at low volumes and using hand finishing processes it becomes associated as High-end.

My $.02


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## davey vermaak

Great thread this

Lots of solid opinions.

I thought I was a king the day I bought my 1st expensive (For me) Watch. A Breitling B1. I still feel that way when I wear my watches. I feel privileged.

High end? For me of course I'm aware of the truly expensive brands and models, but it's all about if it looks/feels right for me.

Davey


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## geronomo12

I don't consider Breitling high end. BUT, I think it is a fine Premium Brand. They make a great quality watch. I consider high end to be Patek, Vacheron, Audemars JLC, GP, Lange, Breguet, & the bespoke manufacturers. Craftsman the can make a tourbillon, minute repeater, perpetual calendar, etc. That is the high end to me. It doesn't mean the any of the High End manufacturers make a better everyday chrono than a Navitimer, Daytona, or Rainbow Flyback. High end doesn't always tranlate to more useful or better. It can mean more detailing and intricate in design and execution.


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## SnapIT

When Breitling wants to address the high end of the market they are more then capable. Does the market, which represents the majority of their turnover, require such timepieces? When the occasion demands something superlative, above and beyond the normal strata inhabited by your died in the wool Breitling owner, yes.


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## Sean779

jstawasz said:


> There are two classes of high end. Mass produced and Hand crafted. I think Breitling fits in with the mass produced High End.


this seems simplest without getting bogged down in semantics. Maybe too simple, because you still have to draw a line between what is considered mass produced and what is considered hand crafted.


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## Split Second

High end, yes, but with different grades therein. 

mike.


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## tribe125

Mercmanuk said:


> It's probably different depending on which side of the water your on in England there are not that many knocking about


But there are loads of them... just about every High Street has a jewellery chain selling them. :-s

Breitling High End? Not in the way the term is usually used, no. The High End starts with the likes of JLC, goes through brands like Lange and FP Journe, and then zooms all the way up to the stratosphere of George Daniels. I doubt if Breitling themselves would say they were in that bracket.

Breitling are jostling towards the top of the next bracket down, along with Rolex and Omega.


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## underpar

IMO, Breitling falls into the category of 'luxury' brand with Omega, Panerai, Rolex and many others. High end to me are PP, AP, JLC and select others.


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## DragonAce

For me high end is a brand with serious Research & Development Center, new thinks to show and many innovations. Lange, JLC, Sinn, Rolex, Patek...are some high end firms.
I dont know, has Breitling some serious innovations to show? Untill now for me was a very serious brand with beautifull watches, nothing more..hey men i can built my case too and put an ETA inside! Am i high end?
*BUT*
i believe with new B01 caliber Breitling realized that if she wants to go a step up *she has to work much more in house* and show some more diffent interesting things...

eg. please show merci! money cost *is not the real* factor to tell if a watch is high end!


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## Mercury2wo

As many have said - It us relative. Also, importantly, depends with which watch you have started your "Watch Journey". 
Mine was - 
Age 18 - Timex
Age 21 - Swatch (My first Swiss Watch!)
Age 26 - Hamilton ( What I thought was a 'high end' Swiss watch then!)
Age 32 - Breitling SA. (Waay too expensive, I gotta stop!)
Age 35 - Looking for a Panerai or a Zenith Dress watch. 

The concept of High End never ends!!


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## jimmer42

jiber172r said:


> To some people Patek is high end, to others a Seiko is high end. It's all relative. IMO, Breitling is a high end watch. Is it in the league of a Patek, JLC or Rolex? In* MY* personal opinion...No.


Patek, AP, JLC and the like are top tier and then you have 2nd tier with the likes of Breitling, Rolex, IWC, Omega etc... Don't put Rolex in with Patek, AP & VC though as that would be purely down to the Rolex marketing machine


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## por44

jw3571 said:


> I noticed on the High end forum that someone mentioned they don't consider Breitling to be high end. Do you agree or disagree? They went on to say that they consider the Bentley line to be a gimmick. I was curious to see if people on here agreed.


Question & Answer: Is Rolex "high end? Is Omega "high end"? Is Breitling "high end"?


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## underpar

por44 said:


> Question & Answer: Is Rolex "high end? Is Omega "high end"? Is Breitling "high end"?


To me they are all mass produced, luxury brands...despite what Rolex enthusiasts think.


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## DragonAce

i agree with the mass luxury brands but the rolex...not that much..its not about enthousiasm, its about facts...rolex has facts..the steel quality, the new hair, the in house movements etch.....


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## Sean779

DragonAce said:


> i agree with the mass luxury brands but the rolex...not that much..its not about enthousiasm, its about facts...rolex has facts..the steel quality, the new hair, the in house movements etch.....


Rolex is a mass luxury brand whose only uniqueness, largely begun and perpetuated by its buyers--for their own interest and gain--is that it's in-house. There's nothing else special about a Rolex that is not special about a Breitling, a Panerai, an Omega.

Seiko is in-house, with watches and movements that are at least the equal of Rolex. Rolex makes very good watches and makes them available at very high cost. Seiko is more democratic, with a range of models and price. People who value the superficiality of "exclusivity" will go to extraordinary lengths to find bogus reasons their purchase didn't make them a sap.

Hypothetical: I'm a Rolex buyer, just shelled out $10k for whatever model it is I forget. Then I find out about Omega, Breitling, Panerai...and I panic for a moment, thinking I'm a sap. But wait, there's something I will deify that separates Rolex from the other 3: its movement is in-house! I am not a sap! And I will ignore forever that Seiko, those shiny things at shopping malls under glass cases, are in-house. I have to forget that fact, not deal with it, because I just bought a $10k watch and I may be a sap.

Rolex hasn't earned its premium price and place due to anything extraordinary horologically; they're where they are because people are saps and will pad Rolex pockets if Rolex continues to be generally perceived as exclusive. This is no slam on Rolex; I see them as valuable horologically as Omega, Breitling, Panerai, and others I might not know of. Consumers have been easy prey for Rolex, and I don't blame Rolex, and I don't mind it has taken advantage, milked it, for an easy meal. We all would do the same.


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## ImitationOfLife

No, I don't consider Breitling to be high end. I view Breitling in the same league as Tag, Rolex, Omega, etc.... mid end. 

High end is VC, PP, AP, JLC, Lange, etc.


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## O2AFAC67

*I've had it!!*

The amazingly ridiculous nature of this thread has finally gotten to me. I gave in to the madness and bought this one for the wife... b-) LINK: https://www.watchuseek.com/f1/girar...llon-haute-joaillerie-539319.html#post3946750 Wait a minute... :think: :-( it's not even COSC certified, ISO certified, NOAA certified, FAA certified or even EPA ceritfied!!! :-| :-x :rodekaart o| I give up!! o| I just tossed it in the trash can cuz today is pickup day... :-|:roll: 
;-) :-d
Best,
Ron


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## CaptRimmer

*Re: I've had it!!*



O2AFAC67 said:


> The amazingly ridiculous nature of this thread has finally gotten to me. I gave in to the madness and bought this one for the wife... b-) LINK: https://www.watchuseek.com/f1/girar...llon-haute-joaillerie-539319.html#post3946750 Wait a minute... :think: :-( it's not even COSC certified, ISO certified, NOAA certified, FAA certified or even EPA ceritfied!!! :-| :-x :rodekaart o| I give up!! o| I just tossed it in the trash can cuz today is pickup day... :-|:roll:
> ;-) :-d
> Best,
> Ron


I was hoping you would put this completely subjective thread in with it Ron.
Cheers,
Andy


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## Watchbreath

Yep, about 960K in 2005, Cartier - 1.1M.


underpar said:


> To me they are all mass produced, luxury brands...despite what Rolex enthusiasts think.


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## iim7v7im7

There is no "correct" way to decide the answer to this question. You can however divide the market by some measurable characteristic to differentiate brands.

Y Axis = Price Point (Low to High)
X Axis = Annual Manufacturing Volume (Low to High)

Breitling would fall into the low to medium price point (on a relative scale) and in the high manufacturing volume category. For example, the number of watches produced per year might seperate manufacturers into low, medium and high volume manufacture buckets.

*Low Volume (<10,000)*
A. Lange & Sohne
Blancpain
Breguet
Chronoswiss
Glashutte Original​*Medium Volume (>10,000, <100,000)*
Audimars Piguet
Ball Watch
Bell & Ross
Cartier
Chopard
Girard Perregaux
Hublot
IWC
Jaeger-LeCoultre
Montblanc
Officine Panerai
Patek Phillipe
Sinn
Ulyse Nardin
Vacheron Constantin
Zenith​*High Volume (>100,000)*
Breitling
Citizen
Omega
Rolex
Seiko
TAG Heuer​The median price within a line might provide a way to divide the market into quartiles. Many brands sell across a broad range of prices. For example, Breitling does offer pieces >$30,000 but they are outliers to the line pricing. Below, I analyzed the Wristwatch Annual pricing which is a "sampling" from each of the manufacturers lines. I broke pricing into quartiles:

*Low Median Price (<$7,400)*
Ball Watch
Bell & Ross
Breitling
Citizen
Seiko
Sinn
TAG Heuer​*Low-Medium Median Price (> $7,400, <$17,800)*
Chronoswiss
Glashutte Original
Montblanc
Omega
Officine Panerai
Rolex
Zenith ​*Medium-High Median Price (>$17,800,<$37,800)*
Chopard
Girard Perregaux
Hublot
IWC
Jaeger-LeCoultre
Ulysse Nardin
Vacheron Constantin​*High Median Price (>$37,800)*
A. Lange & Sohne
Audemars Piguet
Blancpain
Breguet
Cartier
Patek Phillipe
​So on these metrics, Breitling is a high manufacturing volume/low median price manufacturer of luxury watches. Omega and Rolex both have higher median price points which is the major difference between the companies in my view.

We need to be clear that these do not reflect the desirability of a companies designs, the level of quality, the level of service or quality of the distribution channel.



Bob


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## avers

I'd say the Breitling brand is medium level for most of the models (on par with Omega), but they make some high-end models as well.


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## Blerk

I consider Ferrari a high-end car even though they are mass produced and low priced compared with a Pagani.


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## CometMan

Breitling is High end for me, all models cosc certified, price range from 2000 to 150k, quality build, omega and tag are in a lower division on my opinion

rolex has the name...and is famous, all watches look the same except the daytona, i guess the only chrono rolex has, patek that most consider high end, is imo old mans watch, old fashioned, overpriced, nothing spetacular about breitling but even less in a paket, for me patek are great watches, but you can have a good one, reliable at a fraction of the price.

patek invented what in watch world? what about rolex? 
at least i know that breitling invented whit zenith the first start stop chronographs in the world

what did the high end patek did, besides fancy gold cases, and usless complications?

i really like and consider high end...JLC, Hublot, panerai, Frank Muller, AP, Patek and of course breitling hehehe


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## Lilac1

iim7v7im7 said:


> There is no "correct" way to decide the answer to this question. You can however divide the market by some measurable characteristic to differentiate brands.
> 
> *Low Volume (<10,000)*A. Lange & Sohne
> Blancpain
> Breguet
> Chronoswiss
> Glashutte Original​*Medium Volume (>10,000, <100,000)*Audimars Piguet
> Ball Watch
> Bell & Ross
> Cartier
> Chopard
> Girard Perregaux
> Hublot
> IWC
> Jaeger-LeCoultre
> Montblanc
> Officine Panerai
> Patek Phillipe
> Sinn
> Ulyse Nardin
> Vacheron Constantin
> Zenith​*High Volume (>100,000)*Breitling
> Citizen
> Omega
> Rolex
> Seiko
> TAG Heuer​The median price within a line might provide a way to divide the market into quartiles. Many brands sell across a broad range of prices. For example, Breitling does offer pieces >$30,000 but they are outliers to the line pricing. Below, I analyzed the Wristwatch Annual pricing which is a "sampling" from each of the manufacturers lines. I broke pricing into quartiles:
> 
> *Low Median Price (<$7,400)*
> *Low-Medium Median Price (> $7,400, <$17,800)*
> *Medium-High Median Price (>$17,800,<$37,800)*
> *High Median Price (>$37,800)*
> 
> 
> 
> Bob


Thank you for defining watch "class" with these arbitrary metrics (seriously, 7,400-17,800?) largely serving only to divide between the handful of most expensive brands and everything else.

But it did give you an opportunity to pile breitling in along with seiko, and we're all grateful for that, distancing oneself from the poor saps defining high-end by a mere few _thousand_ dollars spent is truly worth taking your time to do, especially when one has to justify spending ten times that on a brand noone outside the bleak circle of watch collecting has ever heard of.



Blerk said:


> I consider Ferrari a high-end car even though they are mass produced and low priced compared with a Pagani.


Exactly. Brand recognition and reverence is key to what makes a watch desirable, and Rolex is just that far ahead of the pack, with Omega, Breitling and even Tag trailing behind.

Mention "Glashutte" to a non-initiate and they're likely to respond with "bless you"


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## fearless-five

If a watch company markets their time pieces 2k or above, that is high end!


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## Sean779

fearless-five said:


> If a watch company markets their time pieces 2k or above, that is high end!


you are fearless aren't ya :-!.


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## iim7v7im7

Lilac1,

Welcome to WUS (I see that this is your second posting). I will try to address your comments:

_Thank you for defining watch "class" with these arbitrary metrics (seriously, 7,400-17,800?) largely serving only to divide between the handful of most expensive brands and everything else. _​They were not arbitrary at all. It was based on a statistical analysis of the brands using the Wristwatch Annual 2011 as a representive sample. The numbers are based on the data and represent actual quartiles of the market.

_But it did give you an opportunity to pile breitling in along with seiko, and we're all grateful for that, distancing oneself from the poor saps defining high-end by a mere few thousand dollars spent is truly worth taking your time to do, especially when one has to justify spending ten times that on a brand noone outside the bleak circle of watch collecting has ever heard of._
​I think you misunderstand my post and may not be familiar with just how fine Grand Seiko watches are. They are beautifully designed and crafted watches. Comparing Breitling to them is in no way a slight (perhaps others will comment). Lastly, this is a watch enthusiast forum. If you spend some time here, I think you'll find that many participants at WUS are quite familiar with the brands that are listed.



Bob


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## fearless-five

Rolex is marketed very well. That's why I believe, it is a watch people strive for. Think about a diamond. Everyone can dump their life savings on one. Because, it's marketing was brilliant. We all hold them in dear regard, a piece of carbon that has been squeezed to hard for to long )


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## ljb187

jw3571 said:


> I noticed on the High end forum that someone mentioned they don't consider Breitling to be high end.


For most people, Hamilton would be a high end watch so for nearly all people Breitling is so high end that purchasing one is unfathomable (for all sorts of reasons). However, after looking at the brands suggested by the Watchuseek Admin when the High End forum was created, it doesn't look like Breitling was meant to be discussed in depth there:



Watchuseek Admin said:


> Recently one of our members contacted Hartmut Richter, moderator of our Zenith forum and asked him if a Ulysse Nardin forum would be possible here on watchuseek.com.
> 
> While this could have been a good idea we at Watchuseek believe it would be rather better to create a "high end watches" forum than a UN forum.
> 
> Potential brands to be discussed here are:
> Patek Philippe
> Audemars Piguet
> Vacheron Constantin
> A. Lange & Söhne
> Breguet
> 
> ... plus a whole load of brands like Harry Winston, F.P. Journe, Christiaan van der Klaauw, etc.


That's that forum's standard, you don't have to accept or adhere to it unless you choose to post there.


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## atennisplayah

no


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## tompw

High End watches for me are watch houses that command a sustained reputation both in technological innovation (advanced research models that set the bar for horological excellence), craftsmanship (i.e. Geneva Seal, Lange, PP Seal, etc), beauty (both outside and from within), style, and above all demand (resell value is a very good indicator of this/number of watches produced per year, etc). 

High-Class Luxury watches are watch houses like Breitling/Rolex/IWC/Omega that are well known, innovative, reputable, stylish, beautiful and with continued high demand (higher production levels/lower resale values on most models). The main difference between the two (in my opinion) is your typical buyer. An enthusiast for the High Class Luxury, and a connoisseur for the High End (I guess its all down to how you define an enthusiast and a connoisseur!). Of course there are your Pseudo Luxuries (Tag, Oris, etc) and Basic Luxuries (Invicta, fashion house watches, etc) to consider too.

However high end watches have their lower end models (Patek 24 series), and vice-versa for your high class luxuries (Brietling B01, Cartier Tank Americaine Tourbillon Volant). Its all down to overall watch standard and not biasing a watch company's status to their top tier models (or low tier models!).

Of course I consider myself a watch enthusiast, and I happen to be fascinated by almost all watches (apart from your fashion watches such as your Armani, Versace, Guccis! Just cannot take them seriously!).


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## Hammondo

homathetes said:


> For me, yes (high end in my tiny collection!); in the scheme of horology, no. The objective differences between indisputable high-end brands such as Lange and Patek vs. Breitling, Omega, Rolex are so manifest that IMHO it really is untenable to maintain they are on the same level as mid-range brands. I'm a big 'ling fanboy, but facts is facts.


Agreed. I have several Omega's and 1 Seawolf in my humble collection and I know these are not high end watches, not based on price, but the fact whether it has a truly in-house movement, the level of craftmanship, materials used and to some degree the amount of watches produced. IMHO, Omega, Breitling and Rolex are all mid-level brands......producing don't get me wrong very nice watches which I am prepared to pay thousands of pounds for, but when compared to Patek, AP, ALS, VC, GP, even Breguet and Blancpain, they are not quite in the same league.


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## Hammondo

Spit161 said:


> The 'level's of each brand will be subjective, depending on how easy it is for the owner of the watch to get the money, and what the owner classes as expensive.
> For example, for someone that earns £11k p/a something like a Citizen Skyhawk AT ( around £300) may be 'high end'.
> Whereas, someone who earns £80k p/a, a Patek Philippe Calatrava ( £8-10000) may be 'high end'.
> 
> cheers.


a Calatrava will cost you more than 8-10000 pounds....not sure where your looking, but you will not find one from an AD for this price.....try in the 20000-30000 range. Someone earning 80k isn't earning enough to purchase a truly high-end watch.


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## Hammondo

Watchbreath said:


> The boys at Shop NBC think Invicta is high end.


Invicta watches can be described be the anagram 'hits'


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## Hammondo

ImitationOfLife said:


> No, I don't consider Breitling to be high end. I view Breitling in the same league as Tag, Rolex, Omega, etc.... mid end.
> 
> High end is VC, PP, AP, JLC, Lange, etc.


Agreed, with the exception that I view Tag below Rolex and Omega


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## Hammondo

Sean779 said:


> Rolex is a mass luxury brand whose only uniqueness, largely begun and perpetuated by its buyers--for their own interest and gain--is that it's in-house. There's nothing else special about a Rolex that is not special about a Breitling, a Panerai, an Omega.
> 
> Seiko is in-house, with watches and movements that are at least the equal of Rolex. Rolex makes very good watches and makes them available at very high cost. Seiko is more democratic, with a range of models and price. People who value the superficiality of "exclusivity" will go to extraordinary lengths to find bogus reasons their purchase didn't make them a sap.
> 
> Hypothetical: I'm a Rolex buyer, just shelled out $10k for whatever model it is I forget. Then I find out about Omega, Breitling, Panerai...and I panic for a moment, thinking I'm a sap. But wait, there's something I will deify that separates Rolex from the other 3: its movement is in-house! I am not a sap! And I will ignore forever that Seiko, those shiny things at shopping malls under glass cases, are in-house. I have to forget that fact, not deal with it, because I just bought a $10k watch and I may be a sap.
> 
> Rolex hasn't earned its premium price and place due to anything extraordinary horologically; they're where they are because people are saps and will pad Rolex pockets if Rolex continues to be generally perceived as exclusive. This is no slam on Rolex; I see them as valuable horologically as Omega, Breitling, Panerai, and others I might not know of. Consumers have been easy prey for Rolex, and I don't blame Rolex, and I don't mind it has taken advantage, milked it, for an easy meal. We all would do the same.


Nice explanation! I find it quite funny when Roli owners try to describe their watches as high-end! Just see the response they get in the high-end forum!! Perhaps lets take a look at the high street shops to explain what watches are considered better than the run of the mill. In England, if you go to any large city or town, there are your standard jewelers, selling Invicta, Rotary, ESQ, Seiko, then above that some may have Gucci, Tag even, but usually the ADs, like Ernest & Jones, Beaverbrooks etc...usually sell Omega's, Breitling and Rolex. Theses shops are in shopping malls catering for the working class masses....some excellent watches for sure, but specifically targeting folk earning a particular income.....oh I don't know, let me have a stab at up to 50k...perhaps a little more, but these outlets also offer interest free credit for the more cash strapped among us. However, what you don't see, unless you visit an exclusive part of town....and I'm thinking Bond Street, London, is the real high-end brands. There is a reason for this, normal working class people cannot afford to easily spend 10000-50000 pounds on a watch, with little money off the MSRP and the retailer looking strangely at you if you ask for interest free credit. Of course, we all have out opinion, thats what I especially like about this overall forum, but I for one know what I consider to be high end, and I know I do not possess any currently.


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## Hammondo

CometMan said:


> Breitling is High end for me, all models cosc certified, price range from 2000 to 150k, quality build, omega and tag are in a lower division on my opinion
> 
> rolex has the name...and is famous, all watches look the same except the daytona, i guess the only chrono rolex has, patek that most consider high end, is imo old mans watch, old fashioned, overpriced, nothing spetacular about breitling but even less in a paket, for me patek are great watches, but you can have a good one, reliable at a fraction of the price.
> 
> patek invented what in watch world? what about rolex?
> at least i know that breitling invented whit zenith the first start stop chronographs in the world
> 
> what did the high end patek did, besides fancy gold cases, and usless complications?
> 
> i really like and consider high end...JLC, Hublot, panerai, Frank Muller, AP, Patek and of course breitling hehehe


it's hard not to laugh out loud......so quartz Breitling have cosc do they?? If your going to give a viewpoint, try to actually not be completely bias, otherwise pointless giving a view.


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## tompw

Hammondo said:


> it's hard not to laugh out loud......so quartz Breitling have cosc do they?? If your going to give a viewpoint, try to actually not be completely bias, otherwise pointless giving a view.


I am afraid quartz Breitlings do have cosc, though at a much tougher criteria than mechanical watches. Having said that I do agree with all your replies from your previous posts.


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## Wisconsin Proud

Hammondo said:


> it's hard not to laugh out loud......so quartz Breitling have cosc do they??


Trying not to laugh....at you


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## O2AFAC67

Even though I very strongly dislike this thread :-| and figuratively kick myself for contributing to it, I am compelled to post this link for purposes of interest only.... :think:

HH Journal: "Breitling doesn't have to buy itself a pedigree" - Baselworld 2011 - News - news from the world of watchmaking and luxury watches - Fondation de la Haute Horlogerie

Best,
Ron


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## Spit161

*Re: I've had it!!*



O2AFAC67 said:


> The amazingly ridiculous nature of this thread has finally gotten to me. I gave in to the madness and bought this one for the wife... b-) LINK: https://www.watchuseek.com/f1/girar...llon-haute-joaillerie-539319.html#post3946750 Wait a minute... :think: :-( it's not even COSC certified, ISO certified, NOAA certified, FAA certified or even EPA ceritfied!!! :-| :-x :rodekaart o| I give up!! o| I just tossed it in the trash can cuz today is pickup day... :-|:roll:
> ;-) :-d
> Best,
> Ron


Smiley overload there, Ron!

cheers.


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## jrpcid79

Guys-
To me this question seems a little silly. I drive a car, visit a place, or wear a watch because I prefer and choose that car, place or watch. So it is question of a watch being "High end" or of "emperor's new clothes"? I had a Rolex 18K/SS Submariner, and sold it because I did not care for the way the watch wore on my arm. Also the18k gold proved to be too soft to be practical. BTW, I just bought a Super Ocean II because* I like the watch*. A label doesn't equate to "high end" to me.
Wear them well and enjoy!
Randy


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## Boxer

Regardless of price, I will buy what I like for my own reasons. Several players at the US Open have AP stitched on the sides of their polos, and you will notice them wearing the watches during press conferences. That advertising for AP is useless on me, because I don't care for the way the watches look. I would take a used Breitling SO for 1500 over a new AP RO, VC, or any Patek if I was not allowed to sell the watch. Lucky for me, the low-end Breitling models are actually my favorite. I wouldn't wear a Bentley model or SA if one were given to me (small wrist and not a chrono fan). If I were a billionaire, I wouldn't buy the highest end Breitling model just because it's the most expensive. I would buy the watches I like which happen to be the Superocean models. I definitely don't have the collector mentality. I don't buy watches that I don't like visually or size-wise on my wrist. Regardless of the historical significance of certain movements or mythical aura associated with a watch, I won't wear it if it doesn't fit my personal style. I will choose rubber over a stainless steel bracelet every time regardless of price differences also. Rubber fits my lifestyle better and is more practical for me so that's what I go with. I don't consider which strap will catch someone's eye across the room more or which will give the look of opulence to a greater degree. I understand that watch enthusiasts discuss topics like this that the non WIS wouldn't consider, but it's really a pointless discussion since the way other people view your watch brands shouldn't affect how you feel about them. Most non watch enthusiasts know nothing about watches anyway. Watches we consider common on the forums are actually rare to see on a daily basis.


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## micfin

Breitling is definitely high end but not in the same league as Patek and JLC which are "super" high end. 

The two brands are targeted at two different audiences and purposes. 

Patek's are for life's mile stones like a wedding or a heirloom from one generation to the next. Breitling's is what you look at for your first salary bonus.


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## powerstall

Hammondo said:


> it's hard not to laugh out loud......so quartz Breitling have cosc do they?? If your going to give a viewpoint, try to actually not be completely bias, otherwise pointless giving a view.


Would you like to know the quartz watches made by Breitling that are COSC? 

In any regards, i agree it all boils down to marketing. Some may have better quality but cheaper due to its marketing compared to other watches of the same category but marketed as if all hell broke loose.

How many endorsers does Rolex have compared to Breitling?


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## O2AFAC67

Sorry, gents. I'm closing this nearly year old thread now because it most certainly has run its course. The discussion subject is perhaps interesting to some but evidently provocative to others. 
Best,
Ron


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