# **NEW and UPCOMING Grand Seiko watches**



## ahonobaka

Hello all,

Creating an all purpose thread to discuss new and upcoming Grand Seiko models, in an effort to consolidate the various threads. Let's be courteous/cognizant of leaks (aka avoid them please) since this is a sponsored forum.

Kicking it off with upcoming 9F releases:

SBGV239: 44GS blue dial
https://www.grand-seiko.jp/collections/SBGV239/

SBGT241: 25th Anniversary BoR 1500 pcs
https://www.grand-seiko.com/collections/SBGT241/

SBGV238: 25th Anniversary 44GS SS/Gold 600 pcs
https://www.grand-seiko.com/collections/SBGV238/


----------



## jinfaep

I've been waiting for this thread 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## WillC310

Mmmmmm I like the Blue face (SBGV239)!


----------



## T1meout

I'm certain that leaks won't be appreciated by our forum sponsors. They enjoy announcing and while in the process reviewing new models themselves. Best we stick to official releases only.

I hope no one starts posting pictures of unreleased models, given it may lead to tighter moderation across the board, and potentially end up ruining it for everyone.

For news on upcoming releases, it's best to head on over to that other forum.


----------



## Laso1

Love the T241, now on the list.


----------



## Y08140

10mm 44gs case seems very appealing.. but my hearts set on the sbgt241


----------



## yankeexpress

T1meout said:


> I'm certain that leaks won't be appreciated by our forum sponsors. They enjoy announcing and while in the process reviewing new models themselves. Best we stick to official releases only.
> 
> I hope no one starts posting pictures of unreleased models, given it may lead to tighter moderation across the board, and potentially end up ruining it for everyone.
> 
> For news on upcoming releases, it's best to head on over to that other forum.


What other forum? This is the sponsored Grand Seiko forum.


----------



## Khamenman

Subscribing!


----------



## T1meout

yankeexpress said:


> What other forum? This is the sponsored Grand Seiko forum.


The Seiko & Citicen forum in the brands section, which unlike this forum isn't sponsored by Seiko itself.


----------



## zuiko

The sponsors are important to remember. Their interests should be respected as a matter of general courtesy even if not explicit in the rules. 

I have never really ever bothered looking for leaks etc as the normal release timeline from the companies is more than enough time to get the models I'm eventually interested in. I guess in more competitive markets getting the news early might help?


----------



## SISL

Maybe we should have a **New and upcoming Grand Seiko watches** thread in the general Seiko forum...?


----------



## ahonobaka

I'm okay with letting this thread die if need be; Hadn't considered that indeed, the sponsors like to post/review watches which would be circumvented by having this type of thread. Sorry to step on any toes!

If not though, I feel GS releases new watches that would otherwise fall under the radar (ex: Wako LE's, Asia only Kasuri dial, etc), which would have a place here?


----------



## zuiko

This thread definitely has a place. The sponsors typically won't explore every release and user input is essential to keep a forum alive so I would say let's keep it going and see where it takes us.


----------



## CFK-OB

zuiko said:


> This thread definitely has a place. The sponsors typically won't explore every release and user input is essential to keep a forum alive so I would say let's keep it going and see where it takes us.


Agreed. As long as the thread stays away from leaks, I don't see an issue and it's good to have one thread to show all the official releases.


----------



## bluedialer

I agree. And the truth is, if any of us sees something pop up on the Seiko website, or see pictures online of somebody handling an actual new release, nobody should be afraid to post it up on here. You're just posting something true. I would say stay away from "leaks" or grainy or unverified mock ups.


----------



## closeset

too many limited editions but SBGV239 is still cool


----------



## ahonobaka

Honestly don't know where else to post this since we don't have a general discussion thread, or a media specific thread, but I particularly liked this video on GS:






Well set up history and value proposition for the brand IMO


----------



## jinfaep

SBGA377. Can someone here read Japanese? 🤞🤞









Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## Domo

Not sure about that one, but there's a new shop model that I missed - SBGA367.

Hankyu Umida - looks like a steel snowflake but with a flat white dial. 37 pieces









https://store.seikowatches.com/store/6371?country=JP&language=ja


----------



## dayandnight

Domo said:


> Not sure about that one, but there's a new shop model that I missed - SBGA367.
> 
> Hankyu Umida - looks like a steel snowflake but with a flat white dial. 37 pieces
> 
> View attachment 12934697
> 
> 
> https://store.seikowatches.com/store/6371?country=JP&language=ja


Dang 37 pieces.. it's gonna sell out like hot cakes...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SISL

I like that blue one. I saw it pop up on Instagram.


----------



## SISL

Domo said:


> Not sure about that one, but there's a new shop model that I missed - SBGA367.
> 
> Hankyu Umida - looks like a steel snowflake but with a flat white dial. 37 pieces
> 
> View attachment 12934697
> 
> 
> https://store.seikowatches.com/store/6371?country=JP&language=ja


Also on the same page, 24 pieces only:


----------



## Fbcanman

I was wondering what the appeal to these watches were? What do you guys like about them?


----------



## matthew P

jinfaep said:


> SBGA377. Can someone here read Japanese? 爛爛


WOW..... cant help you with the Japanese but I assume thats the Ti snowflake case with a fantastic blu sunburst dial ?
Love the orange second hand, especially the SS cap on the post - that would be a magnificent daily wear piece..... loving the new dial lay out as well.
I seem to be a fan when the GS and Grand Seiko are the same color i.e. own the dark faced dials.... not as much on the light dials with raised SS GS and black painted Grand Seiko..... probably just my own quirk.


----------



## SISL

The more I look at those 44GS cases, the more I like the 62GS...


----------



## eyfz

jdelage said:


> The more I look at those 44GS cases, the more I like the 62GS...


I couldn't agree more, but we might get lucky:


----------



## ramonesf2

jinfaep said:


> SBGA377. Can someone here read Japanese? 爛爛
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Using Google Translate, it's limited to 36 pieces and around $5.3k USD.


----------



## Domo

eyfz said:


> I couldn't agree more, but we might get lucky:


I *could* be wrong, but I think these new hi-beat watches will feature the SBGL series case, last seen around 2007. I bit of an odd choice if I'm right, especially as this collection will include the VFA. I would have thought they'd use a vintage case re-issue here, especially considering VFAs had their own unique cases that haven't been re-done yet.


----------



## ahonobaka

Really like the blue power reserve hand on the SBGA145. SBGA367 also looking a perfect alternative to the usual snowflake, particularly like that it comes with strap too.


----------



## ten13th

Time & Tide article of the 25th anniversary 9F. However the author was not aware of SBGV019 as the first 9F with display back. 
https://timeandtidewatches.com/hand...ith-two-limited-editions-sbgt241-and-sbgv238/

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## almostvintagestyle

ten13th said:


> Time & Tide article of the 25th anniversary 9F. However the author was not aware of SBGV019 as the first 9F with display back.
> https://timeandtidewatches.com/hand...ith-two-limited-editions-sbgt241-and-sbgv238/
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


That information may be wrong, but the pictures more than make up for it! My goodness these watches look so much better in these photos than they did in the original promotional shots. The dial pops so much more in them. I am extremely glad I went with the SBGT241 now.


----------



## ahonobaka

I mean...holy hot damn wow:
























Props to Time + Tide!


----------



## bluedialer

Hey I didnt notice it was a day+date.... Wouldn't mind one rocking kanji days. But I'm digging the two tone one in those pics....


----------



## omega__1

Just got this sent to me by the local GS dealer. Posting in case it hasn't been shared yet.

https://grand-seiko.fr/celebrating-20th-anniversary-grand-seiko-9s-mechanical-caliber-0


























Sent from LV-426 using an acoustical beacon of unknown origin


----------



## ten13th

VFA will cost $$$


Instagram: ten13th


----------



## omega__1

I hadn’t noticed the VFA price before. Great googly moogly! 


Sent from LV-426 using an acoustical beacon of unknown origin


----------



## SISL

53,000 Euros for the VFA - ouch.

I want to see a detailed pic of the steel piece's dial. Looks interesting.


----------



## omega__1

There are better pictures of the VFA dial at the link but no close ups of the steel model. It looks to me like the steel model's dial is the same as the VFA but in a different color.


----------



## WiZARD7

Come on, VFA and -1+3sec/day STATIC? They will add again the usual "Normal usage accuracy +8 to -1 seconds per day"?
It is 20 pcs of very fine adjusted watch, with Hi-Beat movement, and still can't keep daily 4/5 sec accuracy on the wrist that EVERY mass produced Rolex/Omega (metas) can do?

I really like the blue one.


----------



## Indyboot

WiZARD7 said:


> Come on, VFA and -1+3sec/day STATIC? They will add again the usual "Normal usage accuracy +8 to -1 seconds per day"?
> It is 20 pcs of very fine adjusted watch, with Hi-Beat movement, and still can't keep daily 4/5 sec accuracy on the wrist that EVERY mass produced Rolex/Omega (metas) can do?
> 
> I really like the blue one.


Exactly my thoughts! This should be the specified accuracy when fully cased and worn. "Static" just makes the whole thing a marketing ploy.


----------



## DustinS

God i hate "automatic" on the dials. So so so amazing seeing those quartz model. Why must brands ruin their dials?


----------



## JoeC

WiZARD7 said:


> Come on, VFA and -1+3sec/day STATIC? They will add again the usual "Normal usage accuracy +8 to -1 seconds per day"?
> It is 20 pcs of very fine adjusted watch, with Hi-Beat movement, and still can't keep daily 4/5 sec accuracy on the wrist that EVERY mass produced Rolex/Omega (metas) can do?
> 
> I really like the blue one.


Watch finishing aside, this is a major reason Rolex has a one up on GS.


----------



## bluedialer

Extra tight time keeping isnt a very static feature on a mechanical watch, and I wouldn't pay much of a premium for it. All 3 of those are 9S85 caliber, none mechanically superior to another, but I welcome correction of me on that. I'm happy with anything that maintains 5sec/day or less, and is mechanically sound enough to be regulated further if I ever really wanted. That said the new VFA is expensive mainly because it's platinum.

Anyway, at last, better images.
Guilloche -esque patterning with G, S, and an old symbol motif. Will be interesting to see in real light or even video.
Korea GS website has it up http://grandseiko.co.kr/collections/driving-system/sbgh051-2/

MUCH clearer view zooming in on the image at that website instead of the attachment below.

That big obtrusive rotor, and disappointment #2 is the same old 5-link bracelet. Teetering toward "pass" on this one, but still looks like a great piece.


----------



## CFK-OB

JoeC said:


> Watch finishing aside, this is a major reason Rolex has a one up on GS.


Is finishing really an aside though?


----------



## omega__1

WiZARD7 said:


> Come on, VFA and -1+3sec/day STATIC? They will add again the usual "Normal usage accuracy +8 to -1 seconds per day"?
> It is 20 pcs of very fine adjusted watch, with Hi-Beat movement, and still can't keep daily 4/5 sec accuracy on the wrist that EVERY mass produced Rolex/Omega (metas) can do?
> 
> I really like the blue one.


Do the other manufacturers do dynamic accuracy testing? I thought they did testing in multiple positions at different temperatures but didn't know they did non-static testing.

Sent from LV-426 using an acoustical beacon of unknown origin


----------



## JoeC

CFK-OB said:


> Is finishing really an aside though?


Absolutely not, as near perfect finishing coupled with good accuracy was my reason for purchasing and loving my GS. I'm simply stating that inclusion of a tighter standard in terms of mechanical performance would really make GS _the ultimate _timekeeper.


----------



## SISL

What's the name of that case shape? It's neither the 44GS, 62GS, nor 61GS...

That blue color is quite versatile and I like the gold accents.


----------



## WiZARD7

omega__1 said:


> Do the other manufacturers do dynamic accuracy testing? I thought they did testing in multiple positions at different temperatures but didn't know they did non-static testing.


No, but they don't feel the need to add text like "Normal usage accuracy +8 to -1 seconds per day", that can be found on GS website for Hi-beat (and +10-1 for non Hi-beat).
All my Omegas, my wifes Rolex, and friends Rolexes could easily keep the cosc/metas/superlative chronometer(-2+2sec) numbers in daily wear.


----------



## jinfaep

WiZARD7 said:


> No, but they don't feel the need to add text like "Normal usage accuracy +8 to -1 seconds per day", that can be found on GS website for Hi-beat (and +10-1 for non Hi-beat).
> All my Omegas, my wifes Rolex, and friends Rolexes could easily keep the cosc/metas/superlative chronometer(-2+2sec) numbers in daily wear.


Under-Promise, Over-Deliver


----------



## vincentle7914

ahonobaka said:


> I mean...holy hot damn wow:
> View attachment 12940273
> 
> 
> View attachment 12940275
> 
> 
> View attachment 12940283
> 
> 
> Props to Time + Tide!


i love t241


----------



## WiZARD7

jinfaep said:


> Under-Promise, Over-Deliver


It would be nice, if they would always over-deliver, but it is luck of the draw.


----------



## SISL

The links to the Korean & French webpages for those new guilloche'ed dial watches (VFA, Special, and ... huh... steel) don't work anymore...

Also - what's that case type?


----------



## GregNYC

WiZARD7 said:


> Come on, VFA and -1+3sec/day STATIC? They will add again the usual "Normal usage accuracy +8 to -1 seconds per day"?
> It is 20 pcs of very fine adjusted watch, with Hi-Beat movement, and still can't keep daily 4/5 sec accuracy on the wrist that EVERY mass produced Rolex/Omega (metas) can do?


As much as I like Grand Seiko, this is why I prefer Spring Drive, quartz, and hand-wounds....


----------



## bluedialer

jdelage said:


> The links to the Korean & French webpages for those new guilloche'ed dial watches (VFA, Special, and ... huh... steel) don't work anymore...
> 
> Also - what's that case type?


Yes, France and Korea must have gotten a good lashing from Nippon headquarters for mistakenly putting them up on their websites before Basel.

As Domo has mentioned, it seems to be the same case type as many of the old SBGL (predecessor to SBGR) references of the 2000's decade. Like one of my all time faves sbgl015. But there doesn't seem to be an actual name to this style; it isn't a historical design. Interesting, though unfortunate, that they took the effort to make them bigger now. I think they were 37mm before.


----------



## ahonobaka

Pure speculation at this point but chances should be good that we’ll get a special LE dial release of the SD divers right? Thinking later in the year non-Basel, but it’s the 10th anniversary after all


----------



## sevenwings

NICE WATCH


----------



## Domo

New WAKO special edition - SBGH241, at a surprising 37mm. THIS I like....


----------



## Domo

Also, Nihonbashi Mitsukoshi shop L.E. of 31 pieces, SBGA369 and titanium


----------



## jinfaep

SBGA365 - Daimaru Tokyo Limited Edition

Interesting dial!


----------



## HiggsBoson

omega__1 said:


> Do the other manufacturers do dynamic accuracy testing? I thought they did testing in multiple positions at different temperatures but didn't know they did non-static testing.
> 
> Sent from LV-426 using an acoustical beacon of unknown origin


Yes, I'm pretty sure Rolex do.
I watched a Rolex video a couple of years ago, and it did show the watches being tested for accuracy and in different positions and temperatures. 
My Rolex DSSD keeps a consistent +0.5 seconds per day.......I've had it since 2011. ;-)


----------



## Foxman2k

That’s why the special rated hi beat I had was so frustrating. In some positions it would lose 5 seconds a day. My sub and Seamaster would be +-1 at worst. Spring Drive on the other hand is a delight.

Couple that with a much lower PR (spring drives 72 hours is amazing) and I just find hi beat to be a bit Meh. Just me though.


----------



## ahonobaka

Domo said:


> New WAKO special edition - SBGH241, at a surprising 37mm. THIS I like....
> 
> View attachment 12964249


Wow! My prayers were answered, a 37mm Hi-Beat.......Here's hoping a more standard model will be released


----------



## bluedialer

Foxman2k said:


> That's why the special rated hi beat I had was so frustrating. In some positions it would lose 5 seconds a day. My sub and Seamaster would be +-1 at worst. Spring Drive on the other hand is a delight.
> 
> Couple that with a much lower PR (spring drives 72 hours is amazing) and I just find hi beat to be a bit Meh. Just me though.


The problem I've noted with hi-beat is isochronism across the length of the power reserve. If power is at 50% or more, should be fine, excellent time keeping really... But as the mainspring expands further, the timekeeping can fall off a cliff especially in the last 1/3rd of the power reserve. Mine will tend to lose seconds under such condition.

Since they're not mechanically different from the non "special" hi-beats, to me the only reason to get one is the watch's aesthetics, and I do like the gold medallion winding piece.


----------



## Foxman2k

bluedialer said:


> The problem I've noted with hi-beat is isochronism across the length of the power reserve. If power is at 50% or more, should be fine, excellent time keeping really... But as the mainspring expands further, the timekeeping can fall off a cliff especially in the last 1/3rd of the power reserve. Mine will tend to lose seconds under such condition.
> 
> Since they're not mechanically different from the non "special" hi-beats, to me the only reason to get one is the watch's aesthetics, and I do like the gold medallion winding piece.


But the gold medallion is only in special versions right?

For example my SBGa105 has the super spring drive movement and therefore the gold lion


----------



## T1meout

Foxman2k said:


> But the gold medallion is only in special versions right?
> 
> For example my SBGa105 has the super spring drive movement and therefore the gold lion


Correct. It has greater accuracy than regular spring drive.


----------



## bluedialer

T1meout said:


> Correct. It has greater accuracy than regular spring drive.


It seems like that wasn't always the case, but that seems to be the designation now. I suppose they can change the usage at anytime, and I hope they do because I'm much more interested in the nice medallion on the rotor than special timekeeping ratings. (normal spring drive and GS mechanical standards are already good for me)

This one apparently was white gold, but not a special timekeeping rating.
Man, GS needs to put out some "new and upcoming" models with some extra character like this old thing.


----------



## bluedialer

Domo said:


> New WAKO special edition - SBGH241, at a surprising 37mm. THIS I like....
> 
> View attachment 12964249


That's very niiiiice.... Question is, screw down crown, or expect it to be just like SBGR251 37mm case?


----------



## Domo

bluedialer said:


> That's very niiiiice.... Question is, screw down crown, or expect it to be just like SBGR251 37mm case?


I wouldn't think so. 37mm hi-beats are a WAKO specialty (there's been the SBGH033 and SBGH041 before) and if they're anything to go by, then no screw down crown....


----------



## Gizanthepuss

Domo said:


> New WAKO special edition - SBGH241, at a surprising 37mm. THIS I like....
> 
> View attachment 12964249


Good grief, that's a fine, FINE looking timepiece. I feel like the "6", "9" and "12" shouldn't work in that font and at that size, but it completely does.



bluedialer said:


> Man, GS needs to put out some "new and upcoming" models with some extra character like this old thing.


You DO realise that, linking to that youtube channel, there's now at least 5 more GS's I want, right ? So thanks a lot, mate ! My wallet hates you, LOL !!


----------



## Tomatoes11

bluedialer said:


> It seems like that wasn't always the case, but that seems to be the designation now. I suppose they can change the usage at anytime, and I hope they do because I'm much more interested in the nice medallion on the rotor than special timekeeping ratings. (normal spring drive and GS mechanical standards are already good for me)
> 
> This one apparently was white gold, but not a special timekeeping rating.
> Man, GS needs to put out some "new and upcoming" models with some extra character like this old thing.


That one is gorgeous. Hopefully they recreate something like that for Basel 2018.


----------



## bluedialer

Gizanthepuss said:


> You DO realise that, linking to that youtube channel, there's now at least 5 more GS's I want, right ? So thanks a lot, mate ! My wallet hates you, LOL !!


That YipsirTimelog guy does a nice job covering and showing Grand Seiko. I wish I could understand what he was saying. It seems as if he's a dealer, but in reality he doesn't even sell... Just sharing the watches on YouTube.


----------



## Sxn5057

jinfaep said:


> SBGA365 - Daimaru Tokyo Limited Edition
> 
> Interesting dial!
> 
> View attachment 12964401
> 
> View attachment 12964403


I am a HUGE fan of the dial. I think GS needs more green


----------



## ahonobaka

__
http://instagr.am/p/BglqI6JF6Rs/

Yes!


----------



## SISL

ahonobaka said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BglqI6JF6Rs/
> 
> Yes!


That's the one I was most excited to see real pics of. It doesn't disappoint. Now for the price ....


----------



## bluedialer

ahonobaka said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BglqI6JF6Rs/
> 
> Yes!


Every year, additions to this composite ceramic line, eh?
Don't really like the style of the lettering used on this model...at all really... Though the finishing technique itself looks quite nice. Anticipating the "normal" case Hi-beat models will look nicer with the more traditional G's and S's.


----------



## Foxman2k

jdelage said:


> That's the one I was most excited to see real pics of. It doesn't disappoint. Now for the price ....


How much? How many?


----------



## dayandnight

If the size and price is right seiko will own my wallet..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jinfaep

SBGA373 (champagne dial) and SBGA375 (deep blue dial). 9R65. 40mm 44GS style case. Beautiful!


----------



## SISL

The blue ceramic Special GMT is 15,000Euros...

https://www.grand-seiko.com/global-en/news/pressrelease/20180322-3/


----------



## whineboy

jdelage said:


> The blue ceramic Special GMT is 15,000Euros...
> 
> https://www.grand-seiko.com/global-en/news/pressrelease/20180322-3/


Old wine in a very expensive new bottle. At this point I'm disappointed that Grand Seiko only seems to know how to offer us limited edition dials and, occasionally, new cases. They are missing an opportunity to step up their mechanical game and produce a new movement that surpasses the accuracy of competitors like Rolex. I might be wrong, but I believe the 9S86 GMT is their newest movement, and it's 4 years old. The base 9S is 20 years old.

For example, this one's lovely, but many of the design features we've seen before, and the movement is "just" the VFA version of the 9S85 high beat (no price given, 20 pcs, platinum case, 150 pieces in gold):

https://www.grand-seiko.com/global-en/collections/SBGH265J/

I feel like the constant supply of LEs and the re-branding is an attempt to hide the brand's becoming stale. Come on, Grand Seiko, show us your A-game.

And I'm a GS fanboy with two in the watch box.

Correction: GS just introduced the 9S25, a smaller-size automatic for womens' watches, good work! https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/every-new-grand-seiko-baselworld-18-a-4666915.html


----------



## bluedialer

Curtains have gone up from the new limited guilloche-mosaic SBGH's
https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/newdesigncollection/

Looking forward to real time pics and videos, and wishing my pockets didn't have holes in them.

Seeing "Very Fine" on the VFA rotor is very quirky to me for some reason.


----------



## Foxman2k

jdelage said:


> The blue ceramic Special GMT is 15,000Euros...
> 
> https://www.grand-seiko.com/global-en/news/pressrelease/20180322-3/


Pass lol


----------



## whineboy

bluedialer said:


> Curtains have gone up from the new limited guilloche-mosaic SBGH's
> https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/newdesigncollection/
> 
> Looking forward to real time pics and videos, and wishing my pockets didn't have holes in them.
> 
> Seeing "Very Fine" on the VFA rotor is very quirky to me for some reason.


Question regarding VFA - is it like COSC certification, where after a service the watch has to be re-tested?


----------



## SISL

I like the blue dial steel special ed, SBGH267G.

https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/collections/SBGH267G/


----------



## ten13th

For me, SBGR311 and SBGH267 are the most desirable GSs of this year's Basel announcements. Was hoping they would announce the 9F GMT as well. But I think given it is at Basel, mechanical watch will draw the bulk of the attention, it is the safer play to focus the show announcements on 9S 20th anniversary.

Images from Time and Tide

https://timeandtidewatches.com/hand...tion-celebrating-20-years-of-the-9s-in-style/
https://timeandtidewatches.com/hand...67-showcasing-the-mighty-9s-hi-beat-movement/


----------



## ahonobaka

Ah right, almost forgot we still have the 9F's to see! 

Regarding the LE's and potentiality of GS becoming "stale", I think we have to remember that things tend to move slow in the watch game. It's been said that a three year lag might even be the norm, and I do believe Japanese companies fall on the longer side of that spectrum. I would expect things like movement improvements, new calibres, etc. to come through in the long haul, but I think GS is still really just gearing up for larger production and focusing on carving out their space in the market with the re-brand, hence the focus on rehashes, stating their brand history and making a mark with attention to detail/dial work/finishing as their core offering. We have to remember that GS is small; They make like maybe 40,000 watches a year (someone correct me on this?) and finish by hand, so essentially EVERY watch is going to be in LE numbers even if they don't state it. It makes sense for them to flex at this pace and come up with new cool dials constantly to garner hype and solidify that image of fine craftsmanship for now. I welcome it, but do get that we want new models, complications, etc. eventually!

As far as what's been released so far, I think the 44GS Spring Drives really do it for me practically, as I suspected when they first leaked. Can't decide if I like champagne or blue!


----------



## almostvintagestyle

I had the pleasure and good fortune of seeing the SBGH267 in person yesterday at the Beverly Hills Grand Seiko boutique when I went to get my SBGT241 bracelet adjusted.



























It is quite a beautiful dial. I wish I had a spare 6 grand.


----------



## bluedialer

Very cool to already see it first hand almostvintagestyle.
Was there a glossy finish, or is the blue really as sort of a frosty metallic as it looks in your pictures?


----------



## Tomatoes11

Quite disappointed. I was hoping for some thin 38mm watches. They refuse to go smaller like everyone else is. 

The new blue dial sprive might tempt me though if it’s 12mm or under and wears small for a 40mm. Still would prefer the power reserve at the back though and not the dial.


----------



## almostvintagestyle

bluedialer said:


> Very cool to already see it first hand almostvintagestyle.
> Was there a glossy finish, or is the blue really as sort of a frosty metallic as it looks in your pictures?


It did not look glossy at all when I saw it. It looked more matte or slightly frosted as you suggest. I think that's what makes it. Being non-glossed helped the detail to really pop!


----------



## ten13th

ahonobaka said:


> Ah right, almost forgot we still have the 9F's to see!
> 
> Regarding the LE's and potentiality of GS becoming "stale", I think we have to remember that things tend to move slow in the watch game. It's been said that a three year lag might even be the norm, and I do believe Japanese companies fall on the longer side of that spectrum. I would expect things like movement improvements, new calibres, etc. to come through in the long haul, but I think GS is still really just gearing up for larger production and focusing on carving out their space in the market with the re-brand, hence the focus on rehashes, stating their brand history and making a mark with attention to detail/dial work/finishing as their core offering. We have to remember that GS is small; They make like maybe 40,000 watches a year (someone correct me on this?) and finish by hand, so essentially EVERY watch is going to be in LE numbers even if they don't state it. It makes sense for them to flex at this pace and come up with new cool dials constantly to garner hype and solidify that image of fine craftsmanship for now. I welcome it, but do get that we want new models, complications, etc. eventually!
> 
> As far as what's been released so far, I think the 44GS Spring Drives really do it for me practically, as I suspected when they first leaked. Can't decide if I like champagne or blue!


As an owner of GS watches. I love the beautiful dials and re-interpretation of historical case design like 44GS, 61GS, 62GS, etc. At the same time, it would be good to see GS move more quickly in advancement in other aspects of the watch, for example, the movement.

9R is unique and a perfect blend of mechanical and quartz, currently it is the only production movement of its kind. However, both 9S and 9F are facing some very formidable competition from Swiss and Japan.

On the mechanical front +/- 2 seconds a day cased with 50~70 hrs of PR is becoming the norm for Omega and Rolex standard model. While for GS you will have to pony up to the VFA for accuracy/precision of that level. For quartz, Citizen announced their new Cal.0100 movement with +/- 1 sec/year. Citizen plan to roll out watches with this movement in 2019. I will look forward to what Citizen has to offer in 2019.

So for me, 2018 Basel is a bit of disappointment on the GS front. My wallet thanks me for not tempted to become an LE dial hoarder.


----------



## Blastar

ten13th said:


> On the mechanical front +/- 2 seconds a day cased with 50~70 hrs of PR is becoming the norm for Omega and Rolex standard model. While for GS you will have to pony up to the VFA for accuracy/precision of that level. For quartz, Citizen announced their new Cal.0100 movement with +/- 1 sec/year. Citizen plan to roll out watches with this movement in 2019. I will look forward to what Citizen has to offer in 2019.


Silicon hair-spring gives advantage in accuracy for Rolex and Omega, while GS uses traditional metal alloy. "plastic parts" is a shortcut. GS wins for me, since metal is harder to adjust and regulate.
Yep, Citizen makes very good quartz movement with perpetual calendars, so I have no arguments to defend Seiko here.


----------



## whineboy

Blastar said:


> Silicon hair-spring gives advantage in accuracy for Rolex and Omega, while GS uses traditional metal alloy. "plastic parts" is a shortcut. GS wins for me, since metal is harder to adjust and regulate.
> Yep, Citizen makes very good quartz movement with perpetual calendars, so I have no arguments to defend Seiko here.


What is plastic in a Rolex or Omega? Silicon, a semiconductive metal, most certainly is not.

As a followup to my earlier criticism of GS for not introducing a new movement, I want to apologize, I just saw in Timeless Luxury Watches' excellent summary of GS's Basel offerings that they introduced the 9S25, a new and smaller automatic movement designed for womens' watches: https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/every-new-grand-seiko-baselworld-18-a-4666915.html


----------



## whineboy

ahonobaka said:


> Ah right, almost forgot we still have the 9F's to see!
> 
> Regarding the LE's and potentiality of GS becoming "stale", I think we have to remember that things tend to move slow in the watch game. It's been said that a three year lag might even be the norm, and I do believe Japanese companies fall on the longer side of that spectrum. I would expect things like movement improvements, new calibres, etc. to come through in the long haul, but I think GS is still really just gearing up for larger production and focusing on carving out their space in the market with the re-brand, hence the focus on rehashes, stating their brand history and making a mark with attention to detail/dial work/finishing as their core offering. We have to remember that GS is small; They make like maybe 40,000 watches a year (someone correct me on this?) and finish by hand, so essentially EVERY watch is going to be in LE numbers even if they don't state it. It makes sense for them to flex at this pace and come up with new cool dials constantly to garner hype and solidify that image of fine craftsmanship for now. I welcome it, but do get that we want new models, complications, etc. eventually!
> 
> As far as what's been released so far, I think the 44GS Spring Drives really do it for me practically, as I suspected when they first leaked. Can't decide if I like champagne or blue!


ahonobaka, I agree with everything you said about GS moving deliberately. I know GS moves at its own pace.

I still think that if GS is interested in taking customers from Rolex and Omega, having a new super-performing movement would be a great help. A semi-WIS buyer comparing a Rolex with a movement rated +2/-2 to a GS rated at -1 to +10 (+8 for high beat) may not persuaded by GS's superior craftsmanship (and GS should stop using the off-the-wrist -3 to +5 daily rate numbers since they are for uncased movements, it smells deceptive).


----------



## Indyboot

The only impressive offering for me is the SBGA375.

i think it looks awesome!


----------



## Blastar

whineboy, You are right. I read some articles about Parachrom, and other alloys based on Silicon. There was a lot of hard work and research put in. But super accuracy, magnetic resistance, way of manufacturing (cutting out from a plate) etc makes it more technology, than an art. I like GS, because one watchmaker assembles and regulates a movement. 
I'll read more info to make final opinion on Silicon harsprings.


----------



## MID

Blastar said:


> whineboy, You are right. I read some articles about Parachrom, and other alloys based on Silicon. There was a lot of hard work and research put in. But super accuracy, magnetic resistance, way of manufacturing (cutting out from a plate) etc makes it more technology, than an art. I like GS, because one watchmaker assembles and regulates a movement.
> I'll read more info to make final opinion on Silicon harsprings.


I seem to recall reading an article where a GS watchmaker said that GS is sticking with metal alloys, despite the advantages of silicon, because silicon is brittle and more likely to be damaged by shock (for example, dropping the watch on to a hard surface.)


----------



## T1meout

I really like the daini logo dials, and isn’t that a newly introduced case design? But at only 15 pieces, the VFA may as well be made of unobtainium. 

The rest doesn’t do much for me.

The SLA025 hi-beat looks ok, but I doubt that many will be willing to fork out that much money for it. It will take at least a year before they sells out. Overall I expected more, and am left feeling pretty anticlimactic.


----------



## ten13th

Blastar said:


> whineboy, You are right. I read some articles about Parachrom, and other alloys based on Silicon. There was a lot of hard work and research put in. But super accuracy, magnetic resistance,





Blastar said:


> way of manufacturing (cutting out from a plate) etc makes it more technology, than an art. I like GS, because one watchmaker assembles and regulates a movement.
> I'll read more info tomake final opinion on Silicon harsprings.




GS is a blend of artisanal craftsmanship in the finish of movement and case, dial and hands. The actual watch movement is full of cutting technologies that Seiko/GS is extremely proud. Below is a copy of GS website on 9S85 movement.


_"THE __HAIR SPRING__
New materials to enhance fundamental performance
Using the experience accumulated over the 50 years of Grand Seiko's history, a new generation ofSpron alloys was developed for the__hair spring__, which is at the very heart of any watch movement and whose performance determines the precision of the watch over time.
After some five years of development, a new alloy__,__Spron__ 610 was created. Compared with previous alloys, __Spron__ 610 had around twice the impact resistance, and a magnetic resistance more than three times higher."_

You could read about it and form your own opinion on how much technology is part of GS. >>> https://www.grand-seiko.com/global-en/about/movement/mechanical/9s85/

GS page ends with the below:
_"What makes 9S Mechanical special?
The concept of Grand Seiko was born from the desire to build the world's best watch, and the collection continues to push precision in mechanical watches to the limits of timekeeping technology. As a true__manufacture__, Grand Seiko incorporates the latest technology alongside its breadth of craftsmanship to raise the art of watchmaking to its peak."_


----------



## Ahriman4891

Blastar said:


> whineboy, You are right. I read some articles about Parachrom, and other alloys based on Silicon. There was a lot of hard work and research put in. But super accuracy, magnetic resistance, way of manufacturing (cutting out from a plate) etc makes it more technology, than an art. I like GS, because one watchmaker assembles and regulates a movement.
> I'll read more info to make final opinion on Silicon harsprings.


Why can't technology be art, why this dichotomy?



MID said:


> I seem to recall reading an article where a GS watchmaker said that GS is sticking with metal alloys, despite the advantages of silicon, because silicon is brittle and more likely to be damaged by shock (for example, dropping the watch on to a hard surface.)


Let's accept for now that GS is sticking with metal alloys for the sake of both tradition and robustness. Is the mechanical GS performance at the theoretical limit of such movements? (I don't believe so, but I'm probably wrong.) Maybe their next-gen purist metal alloy mechanical movement should have better regulation/adjustment, to retain high precision on the wrist?


----------



## JoeC

Blastar said:


> Silicon hair-spring gives advantage in accuracy for Rolex and Omega, while GS uses traditional metal alloy. "plastic parts" is a shortcut. GS wins for me, since metal is harder to adjust and regulate.
> Yep, Citizen makes very good quartz movement with perpetual calendars, so I have no arguments to defend Seiko here.


I don't believe the +/- 2 Rolex 3132 has a Silicon hair-spring.


----------



## DustinS

Really wondering what the actual purchase price on that blue fancy dialed hi beat will be. Would struggle to justify MSRP for it, but feels like GS discounts are going away. that said a decent discount and it not selling out instantly....I'm thinking I'd be down. And I really want a diver...but still haven't found the one.


----------



## whineboy

MID said:


> I seem to recall reading an article where a GS watchmaker said that GS is sticking with metal alloys, despite the advantages of silicon, because silicon is brittle and more likely to be damaged by shock (for example, dropping the watch on to a hard surface.)


I recall seeing the same comment about GS not wanting to try silicon. It seems strange - sapphire crystals aren't brittle? Their ceramic diver cases aren't brittle? If GS was worried about shock damage they'd move to a free-sprung balance, rather than a regulated balance, since if you drop the latter the regulator arms are likely to shift, changing timekeeping (it happened to me on a cheap Hamilton 2804-2 / I am pretty careful not to drop my GSs). Remember, most components of a GS are machine made, they are just hand-finished and hand-assembled (search for YouTube videos on that).

Also - Blastar - glad you are open minded about silicon components. To me, the fact they can be fabricated using incredibly accurate techniques developed for integrated circuit manufacture means there is no need for a watchmaker to fiddle about and compensate for manufacturing defects. And the fact they are not susceptible to magnetism? Priceless. Handmade has romance, sure, but I'm also very impressed by Rolex's performance. If GS started incorporating silicon components, I'd be thinking hard about adding another GS to my watch box.


----------



## whineboy

JoeC said:


> I don't believe the +/- 2 Rolex 3132 has a Silicon hair-spring.


I checked before I posted and think the +2/-2 is across-the-board for Rolex. I have to say, kudos to them for it (but my GSs are finished more nicely...)


----------



## whineboy

Ahriman4891 said:


> Why can't technology be art, why this dichotomy?
> 
> Let's accept for now that GS is sticking with metal alloys for the sake of both tradition and robustness. Is the mechanical GS performance at the theoretical limit of such movements? (I don't believe so, but I'm probably wrong.) Maybe their next-gen purist metal alloy mechanical movement should have better regulation/adjustment, to retain high precision on the wrist?


And maybe there are some patents out there covering silicon components that GS doesn't want to infringe or pay license fees for?

OK - rereading my last few posts, I see I've hijacked this thread. I apologize and will shut up now.


----------



## Tonhao

ten13th said:


> On the mechanical front +/- 2 seconds a day cased with 50~70 hrs of PR is becoming the norm for Omega and Rolex standard model. While for GS you will have to pony up to the VFA for accuracy/precision of that level.


I agree, things are moving quite fast on the power reserve arena, and the 9S, when cased and worn, doesn't quite promise pinpoint accuracy. I wish the "GS test certificate" that accompanies every watch had real recorded numbers of how my specific watch performed, instead of a few benchmarks. Rolex and JLC carry out far more realistic and rigorous testing at this point.


----------



## TeeLew

Are standard GS quartz watches (not Spring Drive) all 3600 bph?


----------



## bluedialer

Just to get this thread back on track!

Two cool wrist videos of the two new mosaic blue dials.

SBGJ229





SBGH267





They're actually strikingly different in effect.
I think I like the effect and shine on the GMT dial better, but totally don't like those cartoony squared G's and S's. The SBGH brand motif is very subtle. Nobody is really noticing G's and S's unless they really peering closely.

Good shot of the color on the blue ceramic too, and the titanium.


----------



## Ahriman4891

TeeLew said:


> Are standard GS quartz watches (not Spring Drive) all 3600 bph?


 Yes. All modern gents' GS quartz watches use Caliber 9F, which is 1 bps / 3600 bph. There are also ladies' models with Caliber 8J, IIRC -- those are also 3600 bph.


----------



## bluedialer

Did this thread break?


----------



## Foxman2k

Ahriman4891 said:


> Yes. All modern gents' GS quartz watches use Caliber 9F, which is 1 bps / 3600 bph. There are also ladies' models with Caliber 8J, IIRC -- those are also 3600 bph.


Well technically the second hand "beats" twice per second; if you slow motion video a GS quartz second you'll see it. So that would make it 7200.


----------



## StufflerMike

bluedialer said:


> Did this thread break?


Not as far as I can see. 12 pages with most recent posts made, 17, 6, 1 hrs ago.


----------



## Ahriman4891

Foxman2k said:


> Well technically the second hand "beats" twice per second; if you slow motion video a GS quartz second you'll see it. So that would make it 7200.


Yes, I forgot about the twin pulse. Technically yes, 7200, but visually it's still one bps, just a very dignified one


----------



## ahonobaka

https://www.grand-seiko.com/jp-ja/special/aprilfools/2018/

Seiko/Grand Seiko are so committed to April Fools Day, you just have to love it...


----------



## bluedialer

ahonobaka said:


> https://www.grand-seiko.com/jp-ja/special/aprilfools/2018/
> 
> Seiko/Grand Seiko are so committed to April Fools Day, you just have to love it...


I couldn't find it listed anywhere, what is the shuriken measurement of that watch?
I might have to think hard about this one.


----------



## dayandnight

I’ll buy four one on each wrist and leg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ahonobaka

Wow! SBGA369 LE 31 pieces...Quite like this maybe even more than some Basel releases


----------



## whineboy

ahonobaka said:


> Wow! SBGA369 LE 31 pieces...Quite like this maybe even more than some Basel releases


Mmmm, not so much for me, I think all that silver will impact readability. 
Also, I don't like the mix of Arabic and stick indices, is this GS's take on a California dial (and I can't unsee the missing "3")? 
Coupled with the PR, the dial is not one of GS's best layouts. Frankly, it's messy.
Just my $.02 and with all respect to those who like the design and buy it.


----------



## T1meout

Most likely a Wako boutique edition.


----------



## whineboy

T1meout said:


> Most likely a Wako boutique edition.


Do you mean "Whacko"  ? (I work for a Dutch company and my Dutch colleagues speak better English than me, so I suspect you will understand!)


----------



## ahonobaka

^Fair criticisms, we all like what we like! It's actually a Nihonbashi Mitsukoshi LE: https://store.seikowatches.com/store/6076

Can't find any other information on it really, but I'll be in Japan at the end of the month. Hopefully I'll see one in person (not buying, I swear a LE SD diver has to be released lol)


----------



## Indyboot

Are there any Spring Drives out there without the PR on the dial yet?


----------



## T1meout

Indyboot said:


> Are there any Spring Drives out there without the PR on the dial yet?


Yes, but they're only available in precious metals and cost upwards of US$ 50k.


----------



## Ahriman4891

Indyboot said:


> Are there any Spring Drives out there without the PR on the dial yet?


I've been waiting for one of those for years! Not counting the Eichi or the SBGD*, which are way beyond my budget.


----------



## stefanss

Would anyone know if there is a method to how GS releases their limited historical collection pieces (SBGR095, SBGV009, SBGW253 etc.), or is it pretty random?

I find most of them quite aesthetically pleasing and we have generally seen at least one model every year since I started following the brand in 2014 (with the exception of 2016, I think). I was hopeful there would be another release at Basel this year (a 9F model similar in the same vein as the SBGV009/011 would be great) but am still yet to hear of one.

So, anyone heard any rumours/news on any upcoming historical models?!


----------



## T1meout

stefanss said:


> Would anyone know if there is a method to how GS releases their limited historical collection pieces (SBGR095, SBGV009, SBGW253 etc.), or is it pretty random?
> 
> I find most of them quite aesthetically pleasing and we have generally seen at least one model every year since I started following the brand in 2014 (with the exception of 2016, I think). I was hopeful there would be another release at Basel this year (a 9F model similar in the same vein as the SBGV009/011 would be great) but am still yet to hear of one.
> 
> So, anyone heard any rumours/news on any upcoming historical models?!


 The reproductions were released in the same order as they were released originally. Except for the W253, which isn't part of the historical collection trilogy. That's the W047. The W253 is a recreation of the very first GS, which saw its first recreation in 2011 as the W033.

As far as we know, there aren't any ongoing plans to expand on the historical theme. Besides the trilogy, they haven't released any other historical model. I recon we've seen the end of rereleases, given the absence of the applied SEIKO logo, ever since GS was relaunched as a stand-alone brand.

In the future they might release some vintage looking pieces showcasing the new GS logo, but that'll pretty much be it. If it's a historical model you seek, I say, get them while you still can.


----------



## dcoffe01

T1meout said:


> Yes, but they're only available in precious metals and cost upwards of US$ 50k.


The rose gold version is only $41k.  They are working on getting the price down.

I wish they would do a steel version but I know it is will not be done under the Credor brand.


----------



## dcoffe01

double post


----------



## T1meout

Newly released:


----------



## Tomatoes11

T1meout said:


> Newly released:


I don't know if they are the biggest teases or what but they seem to make the designs I am into only on their quartz or non GS offerings. It's annoying.....


----------



## Domo

Ikeda Tokushima store limited model SBGV41
40mm, s/s, JPY360,000


----------



## Domo

WAKO store limited model SBGA379
41mm, s/s, 50 pieces, JPY570,000

https://www.wako.co.jp/wako-gs201806/


----------



## MLJinAK

All Seiko brands are hitting it hard with green... excellent quartz model.


----------



## YoureTerrific

It's a beauty except one thing: the 12 looks very crowded by the logo(s). This is the first numeral dial I've seen since the rebranding. Tight squeeze.



Domo said:


> WAKO store limited model SBGA379
> 41mm, s/s, 50 pieces, JPY570,000
> 
> https://www.wako.co.jp/wako-gs201806/
> 
> View attachment 13226453


----------



## T1meout

I prefer the blue releases.
That 12 o’clock numeral is indeed a tight squeeze.


----------



## barihunk

I am such a sucker for these gold GS accents. They really make the it special.


----------



## Foxman2k

YoureTerrific said:


> It's a beauty except one thing: the 12 looks very crowded by the logo(s). This is the first numeral dial I've seen since the rebranding. Tight squeeze.


Yeah looks Terrible IMO


----------



## jdmfetish

Domo said:


> Ikeda Tokushima store limited model SBGV41
> 40mm, s/s, JPY360,000
> 
> View attachment 13226429
> 
> 
> View attachment 13226431


Money Green


----------



## TallWatch

Nice watch, do you have a ref nr or a link to the page ? Thanks.



T1meout said:


> Newly released:


----------



## T1meout

TallWatch said:


> Nice watch, do you have a ref nr or a link to the page ? Thanks.


Here you go: https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/new-sporty-9f-gs-sbgv247-4722919.html


----------



## zuiko

Probably the most interesting GS I've seen so far in Tokyo.

It's a titanium SD with what appears to be a silver Kimono style dial like the US release but with the 12,6,9 hour numerals.


----------



## yongsoo1982

zuiko said:


> View attachment 13235783
> 
> 
> Probably the most interesting GS I've seen so far in Tokyo.
> 
> It's a titanium SD with what appears to be a silver Kimono style dial like the US release but with the 12,6,9 hour numerals.


I appreciate that GS (and Seiko as a whole for that matter) are putting out some interesting textured dials. This one--based on internet pics only--doesn't do it for me. It's so reminiscent of a linen dial that it should just be a linen dial


----------



## T1meout

I really like the font of those numerals.


----------



## erasershavings

First HQ photo I've seen of the non LE black version. Thought y'all might be interested! 
Surprised there aren't more floating ard since the release is next month.










Taken from
https://m.webchronos.net/features/21169/


----------



## erasershavings

Double post


----------



## ahonobaka

Interesting kimono 12-6-9; Surprisingly the font doesn't do it for me here, but I appreciate the titanium. What case is that?


----------



## zuiko

That watch was a sample. The real one is pictured here.

Ref: SBGA369

31 piece limited edition for Mitsukoshi Department Store. 6 pieces left.









Case looked to me like a Snowflake titanium.


----------



## ahonobaka

^Thought it was the snowflake case! Would be my next watch if I could get on board with the 12-6-9, but perhaps that's for the best.

Real world pics of the SBGV247 have surfaced online and particularly on instagram btw! Most interested to see the plain non-LE white though...


----------



## ahonobaka

Thoughts on the white SBGV245? Pics have been out a few days though I need higher def:


__
http://instagr.am/p/Blm-GSinjxX/


__
http://instagr.am/p/BlmcDGUhAPe/


----------



## zuiko

ahonobaka said:


> Thoughts on the white SBGV245? Pics have been out a few days though I need higher def:
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Blm-GSinjxX/
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BlmcDGUhAPe/


The only thing other than colour and dial differences is the strap.

The cordura on the 247 is significantly thicker ("tough") than the 245.


----------



## Tonhao

zuiko said:


> That watch was a sample. The real one is pictured here.
> 
> Ref: SBGA369
> 
> 31 piece limited edition for Mitsukoshi Department Store. 6 pieces left.
> 
> Case looked to me like a Snowflake titanium.


Mitsukoshi always gets the best watches... I must say though, it's strange to see numerals on a Grand Seiko. The font reminds me of those archaic wooden wall clocks in Japan and Korea - there would be one in every big building.


----------



## ahonobaka

Courtesy

__
http://instagr.am/p/Bl6tXb5nIff/









If I was in the market, this would already be on my wrist.


----------



## ahonobaka

Sorry all, forum is double posting again


----------



## YoureTerrific

ahonobaka said:


> View attachment 13352257
> 
> 
> If I was in the market, this would already be on my wrist.


You know, it really does need some text or logo near 6:00. But otherwise, what a charmer.


----------



## il Pirati

ahonobaka said:


> Courtesy
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bl6tXb5nIff/
> 
> View attachment 13352257
> 
> 
> If I was in the market, this would already be on my wrist.


Anyone know if there is a bracelet that will fit these models, and how to go about acquiring one if so? I'm thinking the SBGX091 would work?


----------



## SISL

It really reminds me of the new Zenith Defy...


----------



## nhlducks35

Damn, I really wish there was text on the bottom to balance it out


----------



## ten13th

nhlducks35 said:


> Damn, I really wish there was text on the bottom to balance it out


It takes 100% confidence in perfect execution to leave the dial unadored with meaningless text. You are left to appreciate the details of the indices, hands, dials, case, etc. In a way, this is the very essence of Grand Seiko.


----------



## kamonjj

ten13th said:


> It takes 100% confidence in perfect execution to leave the dial unadored with meaningless text. You are left to appreciate the details of the indices, hands, dials, case, etc. In a way, this is the very essence of Grand Seiko.


+2, I really like the lack of text ....


----------



## Foxman2k

Feel like these new models are some of the first where the new branding works.


----------



## Tomatoes11

If that was an automatic or spring drive and they kept the same dimensions I would be sold. Still waiting for that one GS that sings to me before I have one in my collection again. Getting closer Seiko but not there yet.


----------



## DustinS

YoureTerrific said:


> You know, it really does need some text or logo near 6:00. But otherwise, what a charmer.


Oh heck no! That's the best freaking part about that watch!


----------



## gviddy

ahonobaka said:


> Courtesy
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bl6tXb5nIff/
> 
> View attachment 13352257
> 
> 
> If I was in the market, this would already be on my wrist.


Those indices are fantastic! Gotta find myself a GS AD...


----------



## MLJinAK

That gray is perfect. A part of me wishes it had a timing bezel - as I love to time events, runs, etc. But wow - it's so clean and beautiful.


----------



## Sabeking

Just stunning!


----------



## ahonobaka

"There will be new collections added in Basel next year, beyond just new movements...one of the focus(es) will be adding a dress strap collection"

Sounds like manual Spring Drive?


----------



## JoeOBrien

He could just be talking about those slim cocktail-looking quartz ones that are already on the Japanese site.


----------



## pdsf

JoeOBrien said:


> He could just be talking about those slim cocktail-looking quartz ones that are already on the Japanese site.


Like this one? https://www.grand-seiko.com/jp-ja/collections/SBGX329/

I looked like one of the ladies in my avatar when I saw the price.


----------



## ahonobaka

Good point, there are many JDM models not yet available internationally. Hopefully it’s more than that though.


----------



## BarracksSi

ahonobaka said:


> "There will be new collections added in Basel next year, beyond just new movements...one of the focus(es) will be adding a dress strap collection"
> 
> Sounds like manual Spring Drive?


I think Steve is the guy I spoke to at Little Treasury last year. Very persuasive without being pushy. I almost went against my wife's admonitions and purchased a GS from him (but my sense of self-preservation kicked in!).


----------



## ahonobaka

So...Now that Omega has entered the 5 year warranty fray, how will GS respond?


----------



## T1meout

With all due respect, but I fail to see what your question has to do with this thread's topic. Why not just open another thread. It's totally free.


ahonobaka said:


> So...Now that Omega has entered the 5 year warranty fray, how will GS respond?


----------



## JoeOBrien

ahonobaka said:


> So...Now that Omega has entered the 5 year warranty fray, how will GS respond?


They only recently changed it from 2 to 3 years, so I'd be surprised if they extended it again so soon. 3 years is about average for a premium brand. Also I hate to say it, but I'd consider it quite unlikely for them to offer a 5 year warranty, because that would require showing confidence in their product :/


----------



## blowlamp

JoeOBrien said:


> They only recently changed it from 2 to 3 years, so I'd be surprised if they extended it again so soon. 3 years is about average for a premium brand. *Also I hate to say it, but I'd consider it quite unlikely for them to offer a 5 year warranty, because that would require showing confidence in their product :/*


What's your warranty period?


----------



## jcc5024

As a Pittsburgh Steelers fan this is a great watch.


erasershavings said:


> First HQ photo I've seen of the non LE black version. Thought y'all might be interested!
> Surprised there aren't more floating ard since the release is next month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taken from
> https://m.webchronos.net/features/21169/


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## phubbard

Got mine yesterday and I'm impressed. 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BarracksSi

jcc5024 said:


> As a Pittsburgh Steelers fan this is a great watch.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


As a Nebraska Cornhuskers fan, this watch frickin' sucks. Reminds me too much of the Iowa Hawkeyes now. Thanks a lot. ;-p


----------



## jcc5024

Haha sorry about that


BarracksSi said:


> As a Nebraska Cornhuskers fan, this watch frickin' sucks. Reminds me too much of the Iowa Hawkeyes now. Thanks a lot. ;-p


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## ahonobaka

T1meout said:


> With all due respect, but I fail to see what your question has to do with this thread's topic. Why not just open another thread. It's totally free.


Agreed, we need a general discussion thread. I often have random bits I want to chat/get off my chest or throw into discussion but no where to place them relevantly.


----------



## JoeOBrien

blowlamp said:


> What's your warranty period?


3 years, but only if you send me back to be resealed every year.



ahonobaka said:


> Agreed, we need a general discussion thread. I often have random bits I want to chat/get off my chest or throw into discussion but no where to place them relevantly.


The Upcoming Seiko thread in the main forum serves as the general news thread, there's no reason this one can't do the same for GS.


----------



## T1meout

JoeOBrien said:


> The Upcoming Seiko thread in the main forum serves as the general news thread, there's no reason this one can't do the same for GS.


Well it serves, but it wasn't intend that way. New topics deserve their own threads. Be mindful of others. When visiting this thread some don't appreciate having to weed their way through irrelevant discussion.


----------



## BarracksSi

JoeOBrien said:


> The Upcoming Seiko thread in the main forum serves as the general news thread, there's no reason this one can't do the same for GS.


That's a good point.


T1meout said:


> Well it serves, but it wasn't intend that way. New topics deserve their own threads. Be mindful of others. When visiting this thread some don't appreciate having to weed their way through irrelevant discussion.


That's a _better_ point.


----------



## kamonjj

How much more claim before the storm?!?


----------



## Tonhao

ten13th said:


> It takes 100% confidence in perfect execution to leave the dial unadored with meaningless text. You are left to appreciate the details of the indices, hands, dials, case, etc. In a way, this is the very essence of Grand Seiko.


I'm still a bit conflicted about the bottom text(or its absence). I agree that some of the greatest watches have always been about absolute simplicity. You can't add "Automatic" or "Chronometer" on a Calatrava without the purists calling in death threats to Patek.

But on the other hand, watch size has grown substantially since the heydays of those simple little watches from 31-35mm to 40mm and up. There's a lot more dial space now, and since the new logo takes up two lines (GS / Grand Seiko), the empty 6'o clock tends to feel, well, empty. And then there's the matter of saying "Quartz" or "Manual/Handwound" on a dial... which is not usually done.

And finally, the history of GS would support the presence of bottom texts, as their most iconic watches often had 2-3 lines including the "Grand Seiko" logo.


----------



## berni29

Hi

Does anyone know how we find out about the Japan shop specific limited editions? Like for Daimaru for instance. Some are really interesting, and it seems we find out about them after they have sold out and are no longer available.

Tks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johnnmiller1

To me the lack of text at the bottom is a key selling point. I LOVE that they have left the dial uncluttered and clean. Look at a Sub or a Sea Dweller or a PO with all the junk written on the bottom of the dial. I know that it has great w/r, I don't need to be reminded whenever I look at the watch. It is written on the back anyway.



Tonhao said:


> I'm still a bit conflicted about the bottom text(or its absence). I agree that some of the greatest watches have always been about absolute simplicity. You can't add "Automatic" or "Chronometer" on a Calatrava without the purists calling in death threats to Patek.
> 
> But on the other hand, watch size has grown substantially since the heydays of those simple little watches from 31-35mm to 40mm and up. There's a lot more dial space now, and since the new logo takes up two lines (GS / Grand Seiko), the empty 6'o clock tends to feel, well, empty. And then there's the matter of saying "Quartz" or "Manual/Handwound" on a dial... which is not usually done.
> 
> And finally, the history of GS would support the presence of bottom texts, as their most iconic watches often had 2-3 lines including the "Grand Seiko" logo.


----------



## TallWatch

Each watch design has its own charm and function which deserves more or less tekst. So some have a clean dial, while others have more lines of text to state their features. GS usually does this in a very tasteful manner with the old style logo.









Maybe not for everyone but luckily GS has a lot of other styles to offer.


----------



## Watch19

Love that red "GS". Too bad that was lost on the newer dial.


----------



## bluedialer

Couple blue dial highlights from bluedialer.

First up, this has been shared here before, sbga389. 2018's Nihombashi Mitsukoshi's exclusive store model. It is exactly a Snowflake 41mm Ti case but with a different dial. If that weren't the case (already have a Snowy), I'd be a bit more tempted. It's beautiful though. Cool dial, but you need good lighting.

Not crazy about the 12 6 9, because their matte finishing is inconsistent with the other hour markers, and they also lay flatter on the dial than the other hour markers. Just not a proper fit imo. At the very same store, I also happened to view the new Breguet Marine model with its blue wave pattern, and that puts this to shame in person. Not really a fair comparison. This is still a very cool dial.

Sorry it's sorta blurry.








This one below sbga381 is somehow not an easily searchable watch online. It's an LE for Seibu department stores (not just a single location). Stainless steel, basically like sbga201 with different dial.

This dial needs even better lighting to bring out the charms than the watch above. But, I do think it's beautiful. Gold hand over the metallic blue guilloche like patterning is really nice. But again, lighting factors large to be able to see the patterning.

















I viewed the SBGJ231 at the Ginza Seiko boutique for the second time, and inexplicably still didn't take a pic. Guess I'm just too distracted by the watch itself. Oh well, there are enough pics of that one around anyway!


----------



## YoureTerrific

SBGK002
New movement, new case, new type of dial


----------



## DrGonzo

YoureTerrific said:


> SBGK002
> New movement, new case, new type of dial


Whoa

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## merfury1989

YoureTerrific said:


> SBGK002
> New movement, new case, new type of dial


That is something I want Now Now Now ))


----------



## Chingoo

Pls delete


----------



## bluedialer

Last post almost a year ago??? &#55357;&#56866;


----------



## jinfaep

bluedialer said:


> Last post almost a year ago??? &#55357;&#56866;


Hopefully that changes soon, especially with the GS Summit scheduled for March 2020!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## dayandnight

come on purple dial GS spring drive

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bluedialer

jinfaep said:


> Hopefully that changes soon, especially with the GS Summit scheduled for March 2020!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Yup that's why I dug this up. To see if anyone had some early peeks/previews/news. Apparently not this year


----------



## Domo

Since Seiko has done a better job than usual keeping their 2020 lineup under wraps (maybe less prototypes and papers are going around since they're not showing at Basel this year?) I'll give you a little something to keep you occupied.

SBGH275
L.E. of 22, 18KWG
Only at Takashimaya stores


----------



## aalin13

Domo said:


> Since Seiko has done a better job than usual keeping their 2020 lineup under wraps (maybe less prototypes and papers are going around since they're not showing at Basel this year?) I'll give you a little something to keep you occupied.
> 
> SBGH275
> L.E. of 22, 18KWG
> Only at Takashimaya stores
> 
> View attachment 14799983
> 
> 
> View attachment 14799987


Thanks for the photos. It does seem to be very quiet this year. Not GS, but I recall the SLA033 being leaked around this time last year.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## John Price

Cool, but what is the significance of the word "Special" on the dial? Is it like the gold star you see on the high accuracy models?



Domo said:


> Since Seiko has done a better job than usual keeping their 2020 lineup under wraps (maybe less prototypes and papers are going around since they're not showing at Basel this year?) I'll give you a little something to keep you occupied.
> 
> SBGH275
> L.E. of 22, 18KWG
> Only at Takashimaya stores
> 
> View attachment 14799983
> 
> 
> View attachment 14799987


----------



## bluedialer

John Price said:


> Cool, but what is the significance of the word "Special" on the dial? Is it like the gold star you see on the high accuracy models?


Yes, they're adjusted to slightly tighter timing tolerances of +4/-2 sec/day and will also typical have a gold GS medallion on the case back or winding rotor.

I'd agree the tighter tolerance is negligible, but it's an official life long certification/guarantee and prestige of the special watchmaking attention.


----------



## journeyforce

As Chingoo posted in this previous thread

https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/new-sbgn011-sbgn013-quartz-gmt-5103627.html

There is to be the SBGN011 and SBGN013 GMT quartz models

These watches are very similar to the Limited Edition SBGN007 and SBGN009. But these will be regular line up models and not limited edition ones. Looking at all the info around, the drop date seems to be sometime in Feb 2020

My question to GS is why did it take them so long to make this a regular production model (Like they did with the SBGN003 and SBGN005)? I can see this being very popular and a winner for those folks that want a GS quartz GMT without the huge bezel


----------



## MLJinAK

Man... I've been sitting here for 4 years waiting on a GS quartz sporty model with a timing bezel 42mm or less. I'm keeping the faith!


----------



## Domo

WAKO have a new SD limited edition of 60 in s/s with a sapphire caseback and a navy croc strap with red accents

SBGE261, 630,000JPY excluding tax







.


----------



## Mark355

Domo said:


> WAKO have a new SD limited edition of 60 in s/s with a sapphire caseback and a navy croc strap with red accents
> SBGE261, 630,000JPY excluding tax


41mm for those wondering.


----------



## todoroki

Probably everyone seen this already but SBGM 241 GMT with Green Iwate dial. That's a very attractive price point to pick up an Iwate and I would probably jump at the opportunity if I didn't already own several.


----------



## bobs100

todoroki said:


> Probably everyone seen this already but SBGM 241 GMT with Green Iwate dial. That's a very attractive price point to pick up an Iwate and I would probably jump at the opportunity if I didn't already own several.
> 
> View attachment 15123997


...I wish it wasn't a gmt as one gmt seem like enough and I already have a GS gmt.









Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## John Price

If my GS budget wasn't blown for the year I'd definitely get this one. What a cool watch!



todoroki said:


> Probably everyone seen this already but SBGM 241 GMT with Green Iwate dial. That's a very attractive price point to pick up an Iwate and I would probably jump at the opportunity if I didn't already own several.
> 
> View attachment 15123997


----------



## kypt

todoroki said:


> Probably everyone seen this already but SBGM 241 GMT with Green Iwate dial. That's a very attractive price point to pick up an Iwate and I would probably jump at the opportunity if I didn't already own several.
> 
> View attachment 15123997


It's like a GS Alpinist...kinda. I dig it.


----------



## whineboy

todoroki said:


> Probably everyone seen this already but SBGM 241 GMT with Green Iwate dial. That's a very attractive price point to pick up an Iwate and I would probably jump at the opportunity if I didn't already own several.


Thanks for posting - I almost started a new thread, glad I found yours.

While I love the Mt. Iwate dials, this one is too broken up by the GMT ring. In my eyes GS is trying too hard here.


----------



## Domo

todoroki said:


> Probably everyone seen this already but SBGM 241 GMT with Green Iwate dial. That's a very attractive price point to pick up an Iwate and I would probably jump at the opportunity if I didn't already own several.
> 
> View attachment 15123997


Wow....I feel personally attacked :O









(Joking, obviously


----------



## todoroki

The Green Iwate was always too cool to remain in such limited numbers. I'd be surprised if another one doesn't pop up in the SBGK005 case before long. In the meantime, I'm more than happy with the OG!


----------



## Mr.Jones82

whineboy said:


> Thanks for posting - I almost started a new thread, glad I found yours.
> 
> While I love the Mt. Iwate dials, this one is too broken up by the GMT ring. In my eyes GS is trying too hard here.


I agree. I love the dial, but I feel like the GMT ring gets in the way and doesn't really allow it to shine.


----------



## matthew P

todoroki said:


> The Green Iwate was always too cool to remain in such limited numbers. I'd be surprised if another one doesn't pop up in the SBGK005 case before long. In the meantime, I'm more than happy with the OG!
> 
> View attachment 15126143


That's fantastic.

•• sent by two turn tables and a microphone ••


----------



## bobs100

The more stubby GMT hand on the SBGM241 seems like it can get blocked by both the hour and second hands.


----------



## MLJinAK

I really like the broken dial for the GMT. It gives it a lot more visual appeal, as I'm guessing all those edges are razor sharp and play with the light quite a bit more and gives a fuller visual experience.



todoroki said:


> Probably everyone seen this already but SBGM 241 GMT with Green Iwate dial. That's a very attractive price point to pick up an Iwate and I would probably jump at the opportunity if I didn't already own several.
> 
> View attachment 15123997


----------



## todoroki

matthew P said:


> That's fantastic.
> 
> •• sent by two turn tables and a microphone ••


 Forum member dayandnight had the same model up for sale here on the WUS sales section. Might still have it for sale...


----------



## Vingard

MLJinAK said:


> I really like the broken dial for the GMT. It gives it a lot more visual appeal, as I'm guessing all those edges are razor sharp and play with the light quite a bit more and gives a fuller visual experience.


I agree completely. This is utterly gorgeous. My order is in.


----------



## Domo

SBGC238, L.E. of 100








SBGC238 | COLLECTIONS | Grand Seiko


Grand Seiko official site. Made by hand for those who value perfection. Grand Seiko raises the pure essentials of watchmaking to the level of art.




www.grand-seiko.com


----------



## Chingoo

Domo said:


> SBGC238, L.E. of 100
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SBGC238 | COLLECTIONS | Grand Seiko
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko official site. Made by hand for those who value perfection. Grand Seiko raises the pure essentials of watchmaking to the level of art.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.grand-seiko.com


The watch we all have been waiting for.....


----------



## Domo

New L.E. GS, SBGA432, 23 pieces for Nihonbashi Mitsukoshi's main branch in Tokyo, JPY970,000 stainless steel with YG bezel


----------



## MLJinAK

I love those Arabic numerals. Would love to see how GS makes them shine in person.



Domo said:


> New L.E. GS, SBGA432, 23 pieces for Nihonbashi Mitsukoshi's main branch in Tokyo, JPY970,000 stainless steel with YG bezel
> View attachment 15492891


----------



## tacit

Domo said:


> New L.E. GS, SBGA432, 23 pieces for Nihonbashi Mitsukoshi's main branch in Tokyo, JPY970,000 stainless steel with YG bezel
> View attachment 15492891


Have to say, I kind of dig it and I kind of don't know what's going on at the same time. At first glance the Arabic numerals look massive, but this may have to be seen in-person to really understand it. I would almost think that they should drop the "Grand Seiko" text and shift the GS logo down to give the "12" more room to breathe. In the end, I'm all for bold moves by GS!


----------



## Domo

tacit said:


> Have to say, I kind of dig it and I kind of don't know what's going on at the same time. At first glance the Arabic numerals look massive, but this may have to be seen in-person to really understand it. I would almost think that they should drop the "Grand Seiko" text and shift the GS logo down to give the "12" more room to breathe. In the end, I'm all for bold moves by GS!


It's nothing new really, have a look at the SBGA070 for dial proportions with the old logo, very similar and also a master shop exclusive model.


----------



## tacit

Domo said:


> It's nothing new really, have a look at the SBGA070 for dial proportions with the old logo, very similar and also a master shop exclusive model.


This is exactly what I was trying to say. The Seiko shifted down looks more balanced. I had not seen this reference before. I knew they have used Arabic numerals on some of the Elegance pieces, but I had not seen a design like this. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## matthew P

Domo said:


> New L.E. GS, SBGA432, 23 pieces for Nihonbashi Mitsukoshi's main branch in Tokyo, JPY970,000 stainless steel with YG bezel
> View attachment 15492891


For models like this with a strong 12 I think they would look so much better with the GS applied logo removed.

•• sent by two turn tables and a microphone ••


----------



## chatman

JoeC said:


> Watch finishing aside, this is a major reason Rolex has a one up on GS.


I don't know about that. In my own experience, Rolexes are fabulous mechanical timekeepers, but so are GS's. Despite the cited numbers, my Rolex and GS mechanical pieces are very comparable to one another in terms of timekeeping. I have one Rolex which is unusually precise (Sky Dweller - that watch is about +/- 10s/mo in my experience, often better), and a GS Spring Drive that is (obviously, given the Quartz regulation) even more precise. But the rest of my Rolex and GS watches are comparable in terms of time gained/lost, usually requiring a time reset about once every 45-60 days. So to the extent Rolex has "one up" on GS (and I don't dispute that it does), mechanical supremacy probably isn't the key advantage.


----------



## chatman

dayandnight said:


> Dang 37 pieces.. it's gonna sell out like hot cakes...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like you might be right. Though I've always wondered whether hotcakes really sell that well.


----------



## Domo

Updated anti-magnetic GS quartz models, SBGX341/343


----------



## Sparrowhawk

That white dial model looks sharp.


----------



## Domo

Looks like a very complex case so they'll probably really shine in the metal


----------



## Imagestreet

Wow, I thought these two were fabulous 40mm updates of the 38.8mm SBGX291 & SBGX293 (which I own and adore, but sometimes wish were a little bit bigger on my 6.75 inch wrist), and immediately went to pre-order the black one, but then found out they are only 45.3mm lug to lug. This means that despite being 40mm diameter, they are going to wear smaller (possibly a lot smaller) than the older models. Bitterly disappointed as I really like the fully lumed handset, the hand style, and case and don't mind the 4 o'clock crown. This will be a great watch for those with smaller wrists (in the 5.75 inch to 6.5 inch range) though!

Interesting specification as well - there are some oddities like bi-colour lume which I haven't seen GS use before!

_"From the Sport Collection "Tough GS" series with high-spec functions, a reinforced anti-magnetic (40000A / m) model with even higher specifications and lightness is now available. A functional case design that is created as a result of removing unnecessary elements like a professional gear (tool) that protects the contents with a hard appearance while making use of the tough GS's solid modeling that mainly consists of vertical lines. While having a magnetic resistance of 40000 A / m, which is higher than the conventional tough GS model, the size is thin and small to improve the fit (case diameter 40.4 mm to 40.0 mm) hour and minute hands and 12/3/6/9 o'clock position The GS is the first GS to use a two-color Lumibright dial with green for the index and blue for the other eight indexes, further improving visibility by emphasizing the cross line at night. It uses a matte white dial that gives a more active impression by using highly visible orange as the accent color to prevent reflection when exposed to strong light". _


----------



## Mavrobasilis

looks great but why not a sbgp?


----------



## smalleq

Mavrobasilis said:


> looks great but why not a sbgp?


Yeah, I was going to say it's a shame that it doesn't have the new movement.


----------



## smalleq

Imagestreet said:


> Wow, I thought these two were fabulous 40mm updates of the 38.8mm SBGX291 & SBGX293 (which I own and adore, but sometimes wish were a little bit bigger on my 6.75 inch wrist), and immediately went to pre-order the black one, but then found out they are only 45.3mm lug to lug. This means that despite being 40mm diameter, they are going to wear smaller (possibly a lot smaller) than the older models. Bitterly disappointed as I really like the fully lumed handset, the hand style, and case and don't mind the 4 o'clock crown. This will be a great watch for those with smaller wrists (in the 5.75 inch to 6.5 inch range) though!


How big is your wrist?


----------



## erasershavings

Anyone seen the black dial irl yet? I'm hoping the black won't be as matte as the sbgv243 dial



Domo said:


> Updated anti-magnetic GS quartz models, SBGX341/343
> View attachment 15511782
> View attachment 15511783


----------



## natrmrz

Yea very intrigued by the case as a smaller wristed individual at 6.25 inches. Interested to see IRL shots of it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Watch19

On the black dialed version, wish GS had kept the white chapter ring and red "GS" logo from the SBGX093.
Like the new squared off compact case design though.


----------



## Bulovas&BoltActions

Domo said:


> Updated anti-magnetic GS quartz models, SBGX341/343
> View attachment 15511782
> View attachment 15511783


Reminds me of the Lord Matic 5606-7000, which is my favorite vintage Seiko. I'm interested to see what the full dimensions are and which 9F movement is inside. I'm also curious if the bezel is flat. It looks like it from the pictures, but factory photos are always terribly misleading.


----------



## kplam

Bulovas&BoltActions said:


> Reminds me of the Lord Matic 5606-7000, which is my favorite vintage Seiko. I'm interested to see what the full dimensions are and which 9F movement is inside. I'm also curious if the bezel is flat. It looks like it from the pictures, but factory photos are always terribly misleading.


It's interesting you mention that, it does really look like the Lord Matic 5606! I knew it looked familiar! I used to have one and really enjoyed that case design.


----------



## Dufresne

Domo said:


> New L.E. GS, SBGA432, 23 pieces for Nihonbashi Mitsukoshi's main branch in Tokyo, JPY970,000 stainless steel with YG bezel
> View attachment 15492891


Not a huge fan of these particular numerals (I like the SBGH263 Arabics much better), or the white date disc, but I love the color scheme of black dial and yellow gold. My dream GS would be an upsized 40mm version of the SBGX269, perhaps with a yellow gold bezel. Or, a 9F GMT in black and yellow gold.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## erasershavings

its pretty clear to me that the bezel will be flat from the picture here.

Also, it seems like the SBGX343 is taking some design cues from the SBGV243 (e.g dial markers), and it would be reasonable to assume that the bezel, for this "tough GS" piece, would be similar to the SBGV243



Bulovas&BoltActions said:


> Reminds me of the Lord Matic 5606-7000, which is my favorite vintage Seiko. I'm interested to see what the full dimensions are and which 9F movement is inside. I'm also curious if the bezel is flat. It looks like it from the pictures, but factory photos are always terribly misleading.


----------



## Domo

Yes the flat bezel seems to be a new thing they're trying now. It's also on the new 5-days hi-beat models and they're quite dressy.


----------



## Imagestreet

Bulovas&BoltActions said:


> Reminds me of the Lord Matic 5606-7000, which is my favorite vintage Seiko. I'm interested to see what the full dimensions are and which 9F movement is inside. I'm also curious if the bezel is flat. It looks like it from the pictures, but factory photos are always terribly misleading.


From the early Japanese retailers the SBGX341/343 have a 40mm diameter case (40.5mm with angled crown), 45.3mm lug to lug, 20mm lug width, and are 11.65mm tall. 
Weight is 119g, with covered movement (no viewing window). Calibre is 9F61. 200m water resistance as they are classed as one of their Sport line watches. I really like the look of the handset - dauphine hands have never really appealed to me on tool/sports watches, so these slightly thicker ones are just the ticket.


----------



## cyclemanic

Domo said:


> Updated anti-magnetic GS quartz models, SBGX341/343


This in titanium would have been killer!


----------



## Toshk

cyclemanic said:


> This in titanium would have been killer!


100 times yes! They almost never make 9F in Ti though


----------



## Imagestreet

Regarding SBGX341/343 - For those that are interested, I've done an PS overlay between the SBGX291 and new SBGX341 - matching the size of the GS logo and Magnetic Resistance text you can see the SBGX341 is 1.7mm shorter in lug length than the older model, but the case size on the SBGX341 is 1.2mm wider, and it has 20mm lugs rather than 19mm on the SBGX291 (NATO strap users rejoice!), but otherwise the watches look pretty similar - for those of you that have been struggling to get hold of a SBGX291/3 then this could be your lucky day!

1. Case comparison










2. Left hand case edges aligned









3. Images centred


----------



## Chingoo

Same case but thinner..?


----------



## Imagestreet

Same style maybe but the SBGX335 case dwarfs the new SBGX341/3 case! Same size dial though...


----------



## Toshk

Chingoo said:


> Same case but thinner..?


Nothing like it. Design wise, nee 9F is more like (much more like actually) the SBGC231


----------



## tfost

I‘m liking the 343—was thinking about the sbgv243, but I think this case works much better—they stopped making the sbgv245 (I think)--is this the replacement? And are these Japanese market only, if anyone knows?


----------



## Imagestreet

Yes JDM only, just like the SBGX291 and 293.


----------



## Mark355

Looking forward to wrist shots of the 341/343. Here's my 091 on 6.25" wrist. Wears very well.


----------



## Mr.Jones82

Domo said:


> Updated anti-magnetic GS quartz models, SBGX341/343
> View attachment 15511782
> View attachment 15511783


I really prefer the previous silver dial over the white. It is probably my favorite GS besides the blue 9f diver and it looks now I might have to snag one of the old ones before prices sky rocket. I really dislike the distracting chapter ring and the hands...those hands just look off for a GS to me. Their renderings are generally awful, so I am guessing real life photos will look better and might change my mind.


----------



## todoroki

I like them! But the Msrp is around 400k yen which is a big jump up from the previous antimags!


----------



## Domo

What have we got here? Hmmmm?


----------



## lastleonardo2468

Domo said:


> View attachment 15532181
> What have we got here? Hmmmm?


Ooh that looks interesting, where did you find that one ?


----------



## inspectorj28

That’s a looker, although I don’t particularly care for how GS has been splitting the chapter ring and bezel unevenly instead of going with the traditional split at 6/18.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cowboy Bebop

Domo said:


> View attachment 15532181
> What have we got here? Hmmmm?


Looks like an SBGH269 that got a Royal Teal treatment 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## Watchseeker1995

So many new GS models! Hard to choose which one I want next


----------



## lastleonardo2468

Cowboy Bebop said:


> Looks like an SBGH269 that got a Royal Teal treatment
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Yeah exactly ! That would be a beautiful dial. Do we know the ref or is it just a tease


----------



## John Price

Domo said:


> View attachment 15532181
> What have we got here? Hmmmm?


Oh! Loving it so far!


----------



## Tanker G1

Domo said:


> View attachment 15532181
> What have we got here? Hmmmm?


And yet another beautiful dial that I wish wasn't in a GMT.


----------



## Domo

I am a naughty tease, aren't I?
It's an Asia L.E. of 700, SBGJ241


----------



## Chingoo




----------



## lastleonardo2468

Chingoo said:


>


Is that a Snowflake dial or similar to the one on the SBGA431? Like the blue + white color scheme


----------



## CRW161

Domo said:


> I am a naughty tease, aren't I?
> It's an Asia L.E. of 700, SBGJ241
> View attachment 15533635


Like the look of that, but I am finding that, as far GS is concerned, the automatics are becoming 3rd choice movement for me, behind spring drive and 9F quartz (and that surprises me, a lot).


----------



## chatman

Domo said:


> View attachment 15532181
> What have we got here? Hmmmm?


Ooh! A blue SBGH269 in a ... Skyflake (?) case.


----------



## johnMcKlane

Chingoo said:


>


Beautiful but a 44mm case


----------



## lastleonardo2468

johnMcKlane said:


> Beautiful but a 44mm case


Oh really ? Where do you get the specs ?

And in general, where do ppl find these upcoming models !


----------



## johnMcKlane

lastleonardo2468 said:


> Oh really ? Where do you get the specs ?
> 
> And in general, where do ppl find these upcoming models !











SBGJ237 | グランドセイコー公式サイト


メカニカルハイビート36000 GMT




www.grand-seiko.com




same case


----------



## PadlinPaul

Hi this is my first ever post on the forums so please excuse me if the images are too large.

Grand Seiko Korea erroneously posted, and quickly deleted, pics of this new Spring Drive with 5 day power reserve and NO PR hand on the dial.
This would be the perfect GS for me but I can't find any other info on it. Can anyone shed any light?


----------



## Domo

PadlinPaul said:


> Hi this is my first ever post on the forums so please excuse me if the images are too large.
> 
> Grand Seiko Korea erroneously posted, and quickly deleted, pics of this new Spring Drive with 5 day power reserve and NO PR hand on the dial.
> This would be the perfect GS for me but I can't find any other info on it. Can anyone shed any light?
> 
> View attachment 15536920
> View attachment 15536921


Hey great find! I bet that's the watch that matches this mystery picture that's been bandied around a bit lately.


----------



## Toshk

Brilliant! Shame not in titanium. There is something special about SD - Ti combination.


----------



## indygreg

PadlinPaul said:


> Hi this is my first ever post on the forums so please excuse me if the images are too large.
> 
> Grand Seiko Korea erroneously posted, and quickly deleted, pics of this new Spring Drive with 5 day power reserve and NO PR hand on the dial.
> This would be the perfect GS for me but I can't find any other info on it. Can anyone shed any light?
> 
> View attachment 15536920
> View attachment 15536921


Make the date window color matched and remove the "5 days" and I would be so in. Love the black/gold/red

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Mavrobasilis

first the new hi-beat in steel, now this

RIP my wallet


----------



## wrxdev

Tack on the GMT and I am ready with my wallet on that new 9RA5 spring drive


----------



## wrxdev

I think it is a great move putting the power reserve on the back. Hopefully this movement trickles to the more mainstream GS models.



Domo said:


> Hey great find! I bet that's the watch that matches this mystery picture that's been bandied around a bit lately.
> View attachment 15536950


----------



## Tomatoes11

PadlinPaul said:


> Hi this is my first ever post on the forums so please excuse me if the images are too large.
> 
> Grand Seiko Korea erroneously posted, and quickly deleted, pics of this new Spring Drive with 5 day power reserve and NO PR hand on the dial.
> This would be the perfect GS for me but I can't find any other info on it. Can anyone shed any light?
> 
> View attachment 15536920
> View attachment 15536921


Dang that looks sick. Not sure which one us cooler this one or the slgh003.


----------



## omeglycine

Chingoo said:


>


Hi - which model is this? Thanks.


----------



## Chingoo

omeglycine said:


> Hi - which model is this? Thanks.


This is a 30 piece limited JDM model specific to a store branch.


----------



## dmachine

omeglycine said:


> Hi - which model is this? Thanks.


SBGE265

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## inspectorj28

Pics from IG..

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chingoo




----------



## Domo

New models - SBGW260 and SBGZ005








INTRODUCING: the new Grand Seiko SBGZ005 and SBGW260


With the new Grand Seiko SBGZ005 and SBGW260, the brand celebrates the 160th anniversary of founder Kintaro Hattori's birth.




timeandtidewatches.com


----------



## tfost

Chingoo said:


>


Beautiful! Do you know the reference number?


----------



## Chingoo

tfost said:


> Beautiful! Do you know the reference number?


Sbgy005 limited to 22, JDM


----------



## Tomatoes11

The sbgz005 looks spectacular. If they made a white gold version that costs way less I think we would have a new champ in the Saxonia thin, VC traditionelle, and calatrava tier.


----------



## edotkim

@Tomatoes11 I wholeheartedly agree with your take on the SBGZ005! I'd also love to see Grand Seiko bring its unique, geometric dial treatment to a stainless steel model.


----------



## tfost

Chingoo said:


> Sbgy005 limited to 22, JDM


 Thanks-I'll just have to dream....


----------



## jbwatchuseek

Any idea if this will be wildly available? A slightly sporty spring drive with the PR indicator on the back is exactly what I've wanted.



PadlinPaul said:


> Hi this is my first ever post on the forums so please excuse me if the images are too large.
> 
> Grand Seiko Korea erroneously posted, and quickly deleted, pics of this new Spring Drive with 5 day power reserve and NO PR hand on the dial.
> This would be the perfect GS for me but I can't find any other info on it. Can anyone shed any light?
> 
> View attachment 15536920
> View attachment 15536921


----------



## roadcykler

That SGBZ005 is very nice but as soon as I read "platinum" I knew I'll never own one.


----------



## underhill

Chingoo said:


> Sbgy005 limited to 22, JDM


Damn, only 22 ?
Developping a dial like that seems an awful lot of trouble to produce only 22 watches... Too bad.


----------



## Domo

They've just blue porcelained the Eichi 2 








GBLT997...My oh my








Introducing: The Credor Eichi II GBLT997


New. Blue. Eichi II.




www.hodinkee.com


----------



## Sparrowhawk

Domo said:


> They've just blue porcelained the Eichi 2
> View attachment 15544613
> 
> GBLT997...My oh my
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Introducing: The Credor Eichi II GBLT997
> 
> 
> New. Blue. Eichi II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hodinkee.com


Wow, that's phenomenal!


----------



## John Price

Domo said:


> They've just blue porcelained the Eichi 2
> View attachment 15544613
> 
> GBLT997...My oh my
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Introducing: The Credor Eichi II GBLT997
> 
> 
> New. Blue. Eichi II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hodinkee.com


I'm sure it's out of my price range.

WOW JUST WOW!


----------



## Contaygious

How do I get *SBGJ241? *


----------



## roadcykler

Contaygious said:


> How do I get *SBGJ241? *


Wait for one to pop up for sale somewhere. There currently aren't any on the popular sites that I checked.


----------



## TraserH3

Chingoo said:


> Sbgy005 limited to 22, JDM


Really only 22? And is it out already?


----------



## JLittle

John Price said:


> I'm sure it's out of my price range.
> 
> WOW JUST WOW!


It says 54K, so definitely waaaaaaaay out of mine


----------



## todoroki

The Japan LE SBGY005 is undoubtedly beautiful. Just terribly annoying that they release in such limited numbers to artificially drive up the price. Why they don't have the confidence to release it as a standard model and alternative to the snowflake infuriates me.


----------



## tacit

todoroki said:


> The Japan LE SBGY005 is undoubtedly beautiful. Just terribly annoying that they release in such limited numbers to artificially drive up the price. Why they don't have the confidence to release it as a standard model and alternative to the snowflake infuriates me.


Maybe it's not so much of an artificial inflation ploy as it is a test for the popularity of it. I think a hand-wind, spring-drive piece with that dial and beautiful simplicity is most welcome in the Elegance range as a long-term addition to the lineup. However, maybe they're not ready to go full tilt on production or they're concerned about the reception.

If I had 9k laying around this would be high on my list, despite no need for a dress watch.


----------



## todoroki

I think its hard to test the popularity of something when it is so limited, what is it 25 pieces or something?


----------



## chris838

Question, is it next to impossible to get this watch or does anyone knows how to lay hands on this one?
thx


----------



## Toshk

That 5 days Spring Drive 60th Anniversary has been canceled, but a lovely blue snowflake is arriving soon in New Year!


----------



## chucky75

There will be a new limited edition 140 pcs for Asia SBGE267, you can see the pics @grandseikohk
The GMT 44mm sports in brown sunburst. What do you think?


----------



## Domo

chucky75 said:


> There will be a new limited edition 140 pcs for Asia SBGE267, you can see the pics @grandseikohk
> The GMT 44mm sports in brown sunburst. What do you think?


Good find! I like


----------



## Mavrobasilis

Toshk said:


> That 5 days Spring Drive 60th Anniversary has been canceled


wtf!? this was easily one of the most, if not THE most, exciting leaks of the past few years


----------



## Toshk

Mavrobasilis said:


> wtf!? this was easily one of the most, if not THE most, exciting leaks of the past few years


Definitely gone. They didn't have the capacity to make them on time for December apparently.

The blue snowflake dial is fantastic though! Possibly titanium case too!


----------



## Mavrobasilis

Toshk said:


> Definitely gone. They didn't have the capacity to make them on time for December apparently.
> 
> The blue snowflake dial is fantastic though! Possibly titanium case too!


it has to be, I've no doubt about that; the only issue with all these derivatives is that I'm not fond of the new logo and can only justify it to myself for a movement or case that can't be had with the blunt, underr/stated, old one


----------



## jbwatchuseek

Toshk said:


> Definitely gone. They didn't have the capacity to make them on time for December apparently.
> 
> The blue snowflake dial is fantastic though! Possibly titanium case too!


That is a huge bummer. Hopefully they're able to produce it at some point.


----------



## Toshk

jbwatchuseek said:


> That is a huge bummer. Hopefully they're able to produce it at some point.


Doubt it. Blue dial and red seconds hands were the 60th anniversary style across the range.


----------



## jbwatchuseek

Toshk said:


> Doubt it. Blue dial and red seconds hands were the 60th anniversary style across the range.


I would take a different coloring if they kept the cleaner dial and updated movement.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tomatoes11

jbwatchuseek said:


> I would take a different coloring if they kept the cleaner dial and updated movement.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


This would be even better. The gold and red is what killed the SLGH003 for me so this would be a bonus.


----------



## tacit

I think the gold blue red combination was awesome. I'd have bought the SBGP015 instead of the 245 if it didn't have the blue bezel. Love the inclusion of materials in the bezel and all, but it's too much blue. The deep blue face is a perfect amount in itself.


----------



## statuswan

Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Looks like a diver?









Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk


----------



## Hakatan

statuswan said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Looks like a diver?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk


Fingers crossed it's a 40mm spring drive GMT with a bi-directional bezel....bonus points for an interesting/white dial


----------



## bxtime

Anyone have any idea as to what is being released tby Grand Seiko oday?


----------



## matthew P

statuswan said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Looks like a diver?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk


That looks like the gmt case...... but a 40 mm diver would be a welcome addition for many.

A 62Mas inspired GS ?
•• sent by two turn tables and a microphone ••


----------



## statuswan

A 40mm (or dare I say 37-39mm) diver would blow my mind...but it seems unlikely. My guess is a different color variation of the Asia GMT... 

Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk


----------



## marcs

Please sub 40mm GS Diver.


----------



## T1meout

statuswan said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Looks like a diver?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk


With exception of the SBGW095 only Seiko divers have their crown mounted at 4 o'clock. Plus judging by the shape of the case I'm quite certain it's a diver. The real questions is how large is it and how much does it cost.


----------



## aalin13

statuswan said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Looks like a diver?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk


That looks a bit like the SD GMT SBGE253/5/7.

Hopefully it'll be a brand new model, but I won't be surprised if it's a new colour variant of that watch.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## mattmartin

My wish is that it is a GS 300m professional saturation diver - similar to the MM300 - but in high intensity titanium with a spring drive, and a one-piece case. Hopefully slightly thinner than the LX Snr029 but with a dial like the sbgx335 and a bezel like the sbgh255. And, hope is a production model and not LE.


----------



## Bulovas&BoltActions

The new anti-magnetic 9F SBGX341/343 also have a 4 o'clock crown.


----------



## deepsea03

Bulovas&BoltActions said:


> The new anti-magnetic 9F SBGX341/343 also have a 4 o'clock crown.


I quite like this one.


----------



## Hakatan

statuswan said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Looks like a diver?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk


Hmmmm.....judging by the 4 o'clock crown and case shape, perhaps a variant of the SLGA001 (e.g. blue dial with red seconds hand?) - but I don't notice any taper in the silhouetted strap/bracelet:


----------



## Hakatan

Revealed: SBGE263....brown dial Spring Drive GMT


----------



## Domo

Looks nice. I'd prefer the full size Asian L.E. if I was going brown though


----------



## Mr.Jones82

marcs said:


> Please sub 40mm GS Diver.


GS executive boardroom response:


----------



## wrxdev

Looks good. But still prefer the green one SBGE257. Was hoping this would have the new 9RA5 movement. Oh well...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## alexd3498

I really like the brown gmt! I was looking at sbge201s but can't seem to find any new really, have they been discontinued and replaced by these smaller models? If so I don't have any issue getting the new spring drive gmt, but was curious forsure!!


----------



## Mark Manley

Is there an official Grand Seiko newsletter from the company I can sign up for or do I need to keep an eye on forum such as this one for news and up coming releases?


----------



## Grand Psyko

marcs said:


> Please sub 40mm GS Diver.


You should check out Seiko SLA017. The only detail missing to make it a Grand Seiko, is the "Grand". And it is perfect.


----------



## dchang81

Finishing not quite as nice on those unfortunately.


----------



## marcs

Grand Psyko said:


> You should check out Seiko SLA017. The only detail missing to make it a Grand Seiko, is the "Grand". And it is perfect.


Really like SLA017. One of my favorites.


----------



## DominicStratford

wrxdev said:


> Looks good. But still prefer the green one SBGE257. Was hoping this would have the new 9RA5 movement. Oh well...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've been seeing on forums that these sbge257's can be found new at 30% off. Does anyone know where this too-good-to-be-true deal actually happens?


----------



## Cowboy Bebop

DominicStratford said:


> I've been seeing on forums that these sbge257's can be found new at 30% off. Does anyone know where this too-good-to-be-true deal actually happens?


If your authorized dealer knows you and they're trying to clear inventory it's not surprising to see 30% off just my two cents.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


----------



## JLittle

DominicStratford said:


> I've been seeing on forums that these sbge257's can be found new at 30% off. Does anyone know where this too-good-to-be-true deal actually happens?


I had four separate and competing GS ADs tell me GS is cracking down on ADs giving out deals on their watches. Unless all of them got together to lie about this, makes me wonder why some ADs are still doing it. Happy for those who get/got a great discount.


----------



## DominicStratford

JLittle said:


> I had four separate and competing GS ADs tell me GS is cracking down on ADs giving out deals on their watches. Unless all of them got together to lie about this, makes me wonder why some ADs are still doing it. Happy for those who get/got a great discount.


----------



## DominicStratford

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, there is no local GS in South Africa so not many opportunities to get friendly and negotiate special deals. I'll be in NYC in Jan though so looking forward to getting a chance to chat to some ADs. Anyone got any recommendations for particularly welcoming ADs in the NYC area?


----------



## Domo

SBGX344 | COLLECTIONS | グランドセイコー公式サイト


----------



## Jericho.dedios

Any idea when these will be out?


----------



## mark.wilo13

Domo said:


> View attachment 15702626
> SBGX344 | COLLECTIONS | グランドセイコー公式サイト


I rather like that, quite pricey though!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Domo

New WAKO L.E. of 60, SBGA457, comes with bracelet and strap


----------



## chas58

Mark Manley said:


> Is there an official Grand Seiko newsletter from the company I can sign up for or do I need to keep an eye on forum such as this one for news and up coming releases?


Unfortunately you have to be an owner, but there is the Grand Seiko club in Japan, and now in the US.









GS9 Club | Grand Seiko


Grand Seiko's GS9 Club is an exclusive platform for Grand Seiko Collectors.




grandseikogs9club.com


----------



## chas58

marcs said:


> Please sub 40mm GS Diver.


GS, always giving the people what they want.
Announced yesterday on the Grand Seiko Club - teaser of the new 40mm diver with Seiko's classic Pepsi colorway!!!
What to you think???


----------



## MickCollins1916

chas58 said:


> GS, always giving the people what they want.
> Announced yesterday on the Grand Seiko Club - teaser of the new 40mm diver with Seiko's classic Pepsi colorway!!!
> What to you think???
> 
> View attachment 15802469


There's more text in that post, cut off at the bottom of your screen shot, indicating it was an April fool's joke.


----------



## BarracksSi

MickCollins1916 said:


> There's more text in that post, cut off at the bottom of your screen shot, indicating it was an April fool's joke.


Dangit. I liked everything about it, too, including the ocean-textured dial and removing the power reserve indicator.


----------



## MickCollins1916

BarracksSi said:


> Dangit. I liked everything about it, too, including the ocean-textured dial and removing the power reserve indicator.


Yea man, I had the exact same thought process - if it had been real, the size, lack of PR, textured dial, etc, I would have been a fan!


----------



## Cowboy Bebop

chas58 said:


> GS, always giving the people what they want.
> Announced yesterday on the Grand Seiko Club - teaser of the new 40mm diver with Seiko's classic Pepsi colorway!!!
> What to you think???
> 
> View attachment 15802469


I laughed hard thinking this is an April Fools joke and that it was lol...but you have to like one thing the color scheme was great imagine it was a 5 Day Power Reserve with a GMT complication and the bezel was a 24 HR scale like the Rolex GMT I will argue this would beat Rolex version for sure and would put it as a value proposition from another top brand.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


----------



## chas58

MickCollins1916 said:


> There's more text in that post, cut off at the bottom of your screen shot, indicating it was an April fool's joke.


My favorite April fools of 2021! 
I knew the WIS here would immediately call it out,

But still - its a heck of a concept. I want a GS diver, but just can't get over its bulk. Looked at a couple of them today after posting above, but just can't do it. 40mm would be a sweet spot for me (I have 39 and 40mm GS's, love them).

Some of those blue 60 aniv watches are nice though.


----------



## MickCollins1916

chas58 said:


> My favorite April fools of 2021!
> I knew the WIS here would immediately call it out,
> 
> But still - its a heck of a concept. I want a GS diver, but just can't get over its bulk. Looked at a couple of them today after posting above, but just can't do it. 40mm would be a sweet spot for me (I have 39 and 40mm GS's, love them).
> 
> Some of those blue 60 aniv watches are nice though.


Couldn't agree more, it would be great to see a GS diver in reasonable size. I have a SBGN005 and SBGJ201, both of which are reasonable in terms of relative size, at least for me. 40mm is my sweet spot as well, I hope they issue a diver in that size - I don't even care so much about the color scheme at this point - soon.

From the existing lineup, the SBGA231 diver reads like a wrist tank on paper, but it's surprisingly wearable and hides its relative thickness and width really well on the wrist.

I haven't bought it, but I definitely want to some day!


----------



## egwatchfan

MickCollins1916 said:


> Couldn't agree more, it would be great to see a GS diver in reasonable size. I have a SBGN005 and SBGJ201, both of which are reasonable in terms of relative size, at least for me. 40mm is my sweet spot as well, I hope they issue a diver in that size - I don't even care so much about the color scheme at this point - soon.
> 
> From the existing lineup, the SBGA231 diver reads like a wrist tank on paper, but it's surprisingly wearable and hides its relative thickness and width really well on the wrist.
> 
> I haven't bought it, but I definitely want to some day!


same.... if only the clasp on the 231 weren't so chunky.....


----------



## munichblue

BarracksSi said:


> Dangit. I liked everything about it, too, including the ocean-textured dial and removing the power reserve indicator.





MickCollins1916 said:


> Yea man, I had the exact same thought process - if it had been real, the size, lack of PR, textured dial, etc, I would have been a fan!





Cowboy Bebop said:


> I laughed hard thinking this is an April Fools joke and that it was lol...but you have to like one thing the color scheme was great imagine it was a 5 Day Power Reserve with a GMT complication and the bezel was a 24 HR scale like the Rolex GMT I will argue this would beat Rolex version for sure and would put it as a value proposition from another top brand.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk





chas58 said:


> My favorite April fools of 2021!
> I knew the WIS here would immediately call it out,
> 
> But still - its a heck of a concept. I want a GS diver, but just can't get over its bulk. Looked at a couple of them today after posting above, but just can't do it. 40mm would be a sweet spot for me (I have 39 and 40mm GS's, love them).
> 
> Some of those blue 60 aniv watches are nice though.


Guys, April Fools Day is over!


----------



## chas58

MickCollins1916 said:


> Couldn't agree more, it would be great to see a GS diver in reasonable size. I have a SBGN005 and SBGJ201, both of which are reasonable in terms of relative size, at least for me. 40mm is my sweet spot as well, I hope they issue a diver in that size - I don't even care so much about the color scheme at this point - soon.
> 
> From the existing lineup, the SBGA231 diver reads like a wrist tank on paper, but it's surprisingly wearable and hides its relative thickness and width really well on the wrist.
> 
> I haven't bought it, but I definitely want to some day!


Yeah, I'm wearing my SBGN005 today. It fits my 7" wrist better than anything in my collection. The diver's not so much, but yes - the titanium version does a lot to hide its bulk. Still dreaming of a diver in a similar size to the sbgn005, with lots of seiko's famous lume. But I guess if you add lume and remove the power reserve, its not a Grand Seiko any more, lol.


----------



## NotPennysBoat

The Pepsi trend needs to take a breather 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## egwatchfan

NotPennysBoat said:


> The Pepsi trend needs to take a breather


I mean.... for what it's worth... the Pepsi "trend" in watches has been going strong consistently since the 1960s.... so at this point I'm not sure that it can be called a trend, and either way, I highly doubt it will take a breather. ??


----------



## Powerman

egwatchfan said:


> same.... if only the clasp on the 231 weren't so chunky.....


So hasnt anyone swapped tbe clasp out for another? Even I cant stop looking at the divers. The size is fine, but then that clasp... Its just wrong. Id have to go band at that point. I just assume you could get another 3 fold clasp without the bulk


----------



## egwatchfan

Powerman said:


> So hasnt anyone swapped tbe clasp out for another? Even I cant stop looking at the divers. The size is fine, but then that clasp... Its just wrong. Id have to go band at that point. I just assume you could get another 3 fold clasp without the bulk


if anyone has done this, I'd certainly love to see.....


----------



## DVR

Powerman said:


> Its just wrong.


For you possibly, definitely not for me. I like the functionality and comfort of the clasp. It's bulky but it is so for a reason.
That being said, I assume it must be straightforward and easy to change to the GS SBGC20X series clasp.


----------



## Miklos86

chas58 said:


> GS, always giving the people what they want.
> Announced yesterday on the Grand Seiko Club - teaser of the new 40mm diver with Seiko's classic Pepsi colorway!!!
> What to you think???
> 
> View attachment 15802469


Cr*p. I fell for it. Immediately thought how nice of an upgrade it would be to my STO Samurai. I hope GS will release some more modest sized divers someday.


----------



## Powerman

DVR said:


> For you possibly, definitely not for me. I like the functionality and comfort of the clasp. It's bulky but it is so for a reason.
> That being said, I assume it must be straightforward and easy to change to the GS SBGC20X series clasp.
> View attachment 15809115


I get that. I understand the functionality, and on that subject its a solid solution. My Sinn has another fold out leaf inside the clasp for wet suits. It adds nothing to thickness. There are other solutions to the same problem, that do not require a clasp double the size of everyone else.

But ya, they sell. Owners don't mind, I get it. Just me personal opinion... But it played a large roll in me not getting one. Thats just me...


----------



## egwatchfan

Powerman said:


> Owners don't mind, I get it. Just me personal opinion... But it played a large roll in me not getting one. Thats just me...


Lol it's definitely not JUST you. I also do not own one because of this. ??


----------



## Domo

New GS - SBGA447 Ginza L.E, 200 pieces


----------



## bibbibart

Domo said:


> New GS - SBGA447 Ginza L.E, 200 pieces
> View attachment 15859661


Yep, saw it a couple of days ago. First reactions on Instagram were like "the designer must have been drunk".

The more I look at the watch every day, the more I like it.

How did you arrive at the 200 pcs limitation? I haven't found the number anywhere.


----------



## egwatchfan

Domo said:


> New GS - SBGA447 Ginza L.E, 200 pieces
> View attachment 15859661


I love the dial texture but I'm not at all sold on the color scheme. If I had any doubts in my opinion, the light blue power reserve pushes it solidly into the "not for me" bucket sadly. But I hope that GS comes out with other softer gentler versions of this dial. That would be amazing.


----------



## bibbibart

I've just heard from my AD (Europe) that the market placement of SLGA007 is postponed at least till the end of 2021. Production volume problems...


----------



## GSNewbie

****🤬, then I have to spent my money for a other watch project.🥳


----------



## Domo

New quartz Grand Seikos, SBGN019/021/23, quite expensive though...


----------



## flaggermi

Domo said:


> New quartz Grand Seikos, SBGN019/021/23, quite expensive though...
> View attachment 15873626


What's the MSRP?


----------



## Domo

flaggermi said:


> What's the MSRP?


500-600,000JPY


----------



## flaggermi

Domo said:


> 500-600,000JPY


So I'm guessing the limited one is in the 600K price point and the other two at about 500K. That's a pretty penny but not shockingly more than the comparable existing offerings.


----------



## AustinAutomatics

Domo said:


> New GS - SBGA447 Ginza L.E, 200 pieces
> View attachment 15859661


What is up with that power reserve? This is horrendous.


----------



## Watch19

Domo said:


> 500-600,000JPY


$5450.00 USD for the LE
$4550.00 USD for the Red or Blue

The SBGN003/5 may wear better on a smaller wrist than these. A lot less $$ too. Must be that ceramic bezel?


----------



## Domo

New L.E. quartz, SBGN025, for Isetan Shinjuku department store


----------



## Nasir Kasmani

Domo said:


> New L.E. quartz, SBGN025, for Isetan Shinjuku department store
> View attachment 15981437
> 
> View attachment 15981438


How many pieces this time?


----------



## rokman

Domo said:


> New L.E. quartz, SBGN025, for Isetan Shinjuku department store
> View attachment 15981437
> 
> View attachment 15981438


An iwate GMT wow!!!
Nice one

Sent from my M2007J3SY using Tapatalk


----------



## Stu47

56 pcs? Crikey. Is that true? Lovely watch that is.


----------



## Domo

rokman said:


> An iwate GMT wow!!!
> Nice one
> 
> Sent from my M2007J3SY using Tapatalk


Not quite, the Iwate dial pattern I think so far has only shown up on mechanical models. It's a coarser, deeper pattern with less glossy sheen over the top. It's shown up before on the L.E. SBGN017, I think GS describes it as a tree bark or something.


----------



## bitethattire

That's a nice looking dial! Could even be better than an Iwate dial if it is deeper; you can then appreciate the dial in even poor lighting, versus waiting for the sun to hit just right


----------



## Mark355

Domo said:


> New L.E. quartz, SBGN025, for Isetan Shinjuku department store


Oh that is niiiiiice!


----------



## egwatchfan

This is nice… but like come on!!!!!! What must we do to get GS to make the smaller diver?!?!

I am starting to think it will never come…


----------



## matthew P

Domo said:


> New L.E. quartz, SBGN025, for Isetan Shinjuku department store
> 
> View attachment 15981438


wow,,,, fine looking watch


----------



## bibbibart

Domo said:


> New L.E. quartz, SBGN025, for Isetan Shinjuku department store
> View attachment 15981437
> 
> View attachment 15981438


Waiting for mine to arrive in late Nov. IMHO looks much better that the 2020 Isetan LE. More everyday throughout the whole year, not so shiny.

And it's so comforting that (after the SBGN 019/21/23 release) GS is still releasing quartzes in the SBGN001 style


----------



## Watch19

Domo said:


> New L.E. quartz, SBGN025, for Isetan Shinjuku department store
> View attachment 15981437
> 
> View attachment 15981438


The monochrome color scheme makes this close to the only watch you need to take for a long overseas vacation. 
Too bad there will be so few made.
Domo, thanks for the posting!


----------



## entrynmbrv

bibbibart said:


> Waiting for mine to arrive in late Nov. IMHO looks much better that the 2020 Isetan LE. More everyday throughout the whole year, not so shiny.
> 
> And it's so comforting that (after the SBGN 019/21/23 release) GS is still releasing quartzes in the SBGN001 style


How did you order one? I'd love to get one myself.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ffnc1020

Looks like three new Chinese LE.









Reference SBGA451/453/455


----------



## Domo

ffnc1020 said:


> Looks like three new Chinese LE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reference SBGA451/453/455


Interesting. Very unusual to see a black date wheel on a green GS.


----------



## Xhantos

SLGA007 and SLGA008


















Grand Seiko Unveils Limited Edition SLGA007 And SLGA008 Spring Drive Watches | aBlogtoWatch


2021 has been a prolific year so far for Grand Seiko, as its parent company celebrates a landmark 140th anniversary. Nearly every aspect of the brand’s lineup from its Hi-Beat automatic movements to its sporty quartz models, has received special limited edition treatments to mark the...



www.ablogtowatch.com













Hands-On Review With The Grand Seiko SLGA007 Limited Edition Watch


✓ Grand Seiko surprises us with two new textured dial limited editions ✓ We take a closer look at the chic SLGA007 on the wrist ✓




www.fratellowatches.com













Introducing: The New SLGA007 And SLGA008 Grand Seikos, And A New 5-Day Spring Drive Caliber


Wood, water, and a pet peeve goes bye-bye.




www.hodinkee.com


----------



## One-Seventy

Lovely. A size that works for most - not for nothing is pretty much everyone else's male casual watch around 40mm - and a tour de force, if idiosyncratic, movement. Just about 30% too expensive, but then they don't make watches at anything like Om*g* or R*l*x volumes, so I guess they have to be more expensive. Mind you, the finishing, ooh....


----------



## Watchyouloved

I was attending the GS webinar but it froze and cut off before it could truly end, but at the same time hodinkee posted an article showcasing the exact same watches. Here they are folks!



https://hodinkee.imgix.net/uploads/images/ea39566d-da31-4a84-a2b3-735bd4748ad2/grandseiko10-19-2021930416by9.jpg?ixlib=rails-1.1.0&fm=jpg&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&w=1200&h=630&fit=crop


----------



## silentmask

Watchyouloved said:


> I was attending the GS webinar but it froze and cut off before it could truly end, but at the same time hodinkee posted an article showcasing the exact same watches. Here they are folks!


The host did say they will keep it short for today, just didn't expect to be that short 😅


----------



## westcoastco

Watchyouloved said:


> I was attending the GS webinar but it froze and cut off before it could truly end, but at the same time hodinkee posted an article showcasing the exact same watches. Here they are folks!
> 
> 
> 
> https://hodinkee.imgix.net/uploads/images/ea39566d-da31-4a84-a2b3-735bd4748ad2/grandseiko10-19-2021930416by9.jpg?ixlib=rails-1.1.0&fm=jpg&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&w=1200&h=630&fit=crop


These are amazing! What else do we know? Size? Movement?


----------



## RetroEffect

Pre-orders are up for the new SBGW models - got my order in for the irresistible SBGW275!









Grand Seiko Manual SBGW273 Genbi Green USA Limited 140 Watch


Grand Seiko Manual-Winding SBGW273 Genbi Green limited watch of 140 available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!




grandseikoboutique.us













Grand Seiko Manual SBGW275 Genbi Green USA Limited 140 Watch


Grand Seiko Manual-Winding SBGW275 Genbi Green limited watch of 140 available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!




grandseikoboutique.us













Grand Seiko Manual SBGW277 Genbi Green USA Limited 140 Watch


Grand Seiko Manual-Winding SBGW277 Genbi Green limited watch of 140 available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!




grandseikoboutique.us


----------



## deepsea03

Congratulations on getting the 275....probably the closest to a perfect watch I have ever seen


----------



## Jezec

2 out of the 3 are already sold out?


----------



## RetroEffect

Jezec said:


> 2 out of the 3 are already sold out?


SBGW275 is exclusive to the boutique but 273 and 277 will be sold by other retailers so they didn't have as many.


----------



## Jezec

I'll PM you Retro.


----------



## Watchyouloved

westcoastco said:


> These are amazing! What else do we know? Size? Movement?


It's the exact same watch as the SBGW231 except green dial and "limited edition" which is the reason for the $800 up charge


----------



## bibbibart

Watchyouloved said:


> I was attending the GS webinar but it froze and cut off before it could truly end, but at the same time hodinkee posted an article showcasing the exact same watches. Here they are folks!
> 
> 
> 
> https://hodinkee.imgix.net/uploads/images/ea39566d-da31-4a84-a2b3-735bd4748ad2/grandseiko10-19-2021930416by9.jpg?ixlib=rails-1.1.0&fm=jpg&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&w=1200&h=630&fit=crop


And so was I. A pretty nasty thing to have the webinar stopped in the middle of the presentation, without later info to those who attended.

Anyway, this was an unexpected product placement. 3 beauties in the classic size. I opt for SBGW275. Heard from my AD that he'll get one of each kind (including the online-exclusive 275).

In summary - it has been a successful day for GS - the GS community cannot complain on the new releases


----------



## Xhantos

bibbibart said:


> In summary - it has been a successful day for GS - the GS community cannot complain on the new releases


I'm not in the US - I guess I have the right to complain but my wallet seems happy


----------



## Watchyouloved

bibbibart said:


> And so was I. A pretty nasty thing to have the webinar stopped in the middle of the presentation, without later info to those who attended.
> 
> Anyway, this was an unexpected product placement. 3 beauties in the classic size. I opt for SBGW275. Heard from my AD that he'll get one of each kind (including the online-exclusive 275).
> 
> In summary - it has been a successful day for GS - the GS community cannot complain on the new releases


Wow your AD will even have the online exclusive model?! That's unexpected.

May I ask who your AD is? Or which state they are in? I'm just very curious if it's who I think it is lol


----------



## todoroki

SBGM 249 Wako LE

627000 yen

50 pieces.

New Iwate dial which is pretty sweet!


----------



## One-Seventy

bibbibart said:


> And so was I. A pretty nasty thing to have the webinar stopped in the middle of the presentation, without later info to those who attended.
> 
> Anyway, this was an unexpected product placement. 3 beauties in the classic size. I opt for SBGW275. Heard from my AD that he'll get one of each kind (including the online-exclusive 275).
> 
> In summary - it has been a successful day for GS - the GS community cannot complain on the new releases


Yes they can - they're only available in one country. So good for the _American_ GS "community", perhaps!


----------



## bibbibart

todoroki said:


> SBGM 249 Wako LE
> 
> 627000 yen
> 
> 50 pieces.
> 
> New Iwate dial which is pretty sweet!
> 
> View attachment 16085010


Todoroki - great find, thanks for this info! This violet hue is rather very scarce accross GS range. Very interesting and combined with Iwate pattern.

Cheers,
Bart


----------



## loganhunter2009

Thanks. I've placed in my pre-order for the SLGA007.


----------



## Watchyouloved

new hi-beat divers !!


----------



## Dixan

43.8 mm = 👍🏻

Hoping for 20 mm lugs.


----------



## Silvek

Dixan said:


> 43.8 mm = 👍🏻
> 
> Hoping for 20 mm lugs.


"Lug Width : 21mm"

WTF?


----------



## muasua

I wish GS move on from this diver. I mean, their mother company(Seiko) got so many great diver designs but GS pick a submariner to homage? really?


----------



## flaggermi

muasua said:


> I wish GS move on from this diver. I mean, their mother company(Seiko) got so many great diver designs but GS pick a submariner to homage? really?


I agree with this. I would like to see a non-limited run of a diver building on the SLGA001 (with the new generation of spring drive of course). GS is more that capable of making a diver that is distinctive to them.


----------



## Watchyouloved

flaggermi said:


> I agree with this. I would like to see a non-limited run of a diver building on the SLGA001 (with the new generation of spring drive of course). GS is more that capable of making a diver that is distinctive to them.


I agree also. The one thing holding grand seiko back from the luxury dive space and being as popular as the others is plain and simple: heritage. If they had history or lineage, which they do through seiko, they would sell better than what is essentially a 10 year old relatively new diver watch in the game. If they took a seiko design and wrote grand seiko on it, or if they just built something that was uniquely them and not a copy of the sub then it might get more appreciation. Their other models do well because they are based on historical grand seiko models and that her that legacy to bank on, the divers do not.


----------



## Watchyouloved

And fix that clasp!


----------



## johnMcKlane

They are very beautiful but also a downer


----------



## egwatchfan

Watchyouloved said:


> And fix that clasp!


No kidding. That clasp is so unacceptable at this price point.


----------



## Shug

flaggermi said:


> I agree with this. I would like to see a non-limited run of a diver building on the SLGA001 (with the new generation of spring drive of course). GS is more that capable of making a diver that is distinctive to them.


Was hoping for the 5 day power reserve as well in the diver. Guess I'll be passing on these 2.


----------



## Gzm

todoroki said:


> SBGM 249 Wako LE
> 
> 627000 yen
> 
> 50 pieces.
> 
> New Iwate dial which is pretty sweet!
> 
> View attachment 16085010


Whoever gets their hands on this will be very lucky. It's a beautiful watch.


----------



## Watchyouloved

The spring drive divers are out.


----------



## egwatchfan

Watchyouloved said:


> The spring drive divers are out.


where? Not seeing them on the US page.


----------



## Watchyouloved

egwatchfan said:


> where? Not seeing them on the US page.


The current spring drive divers are out = gone


----------



## egwatchfan

Watchyouloved said:


> The current spring drive divers are out = gone


Ah. Yes. Thanks for the clarification. 😂


----------



## bibbibart

SBGW267 & SBGW269

The European Exclusive Light & Shadow collection of two watches.

37,3mm / 11,6mm / calfskin
Calibre 9S64

Looks like NOT being a LE. €4.800. 
Release date Oct 1, 2021.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Cool pair.


----------



## acebruin

I'm glad they're not LE


----------



## Madventure

Like the light tan one. But wouldn't a croc strap be better here? Calfskin seems so simple, no? Or am I missing something?


----------



## pureb

Madventure said:


> Like the light tan one. But wouldn't a croc strap be better here? Calfskin seems so simple, no? Or am I missing something?


My thoughts exactly, but at €4.800 listprice, it makes sense


----------



## TCWU

Watchyouloved said:


> The current spring drive divers are out = gone


new models will be out soon 
and more $$$$
that's the way for Seiko /GS price changed


----------



## Watchyouloved

TCWU said:


> new models will be out soon
> and more $$$$
> that's the way for Seiko /GS price changed


Yup they'll look exactly the same as the previous ones but for some reason will have a price bump.


----------



## pureb

Watchyouloved said:


> Yup they'll look exactly the same as the previous ones but for some reason will have a price bump.


They are smaller and powered by a hi-beat now, right?


----------



## Watchyouloved

pureb said:


> They are smaller and powered by a hi-beat now, right?


They aren't smaller, same dimensions and the hi-beat are actually .7mm thicker. They are also releasing new spring drive models which look exactly the same as the previous ones just new model numbers.


----------



## pureb

Watchyouloved said:


> They aren't smaller, same dimensions and the hi-beat are actually .7mm thicker. They are also releasing new spring drive models which look exactly the same as the previous ones just new model numbers.


Ok, didn't know that.

Strange choice. At least something should be different one thinks


----------



## TCWU

Watchyouloved said:


> Yup they'll look exactly the same as the previous ones but for some reason will have a price bump.











**NEW and UPCOMING Seiko watches**


Plastic case. Nice. Guess Seiko give up on Saving the Ocean. You don't have to throw the case into the ocean....




www.watchuseek.com





nap the bezel insert change a little bit 
hard to tell at first
now the next question
$500
or $1000 up for the new old design?
or even higher

now you are paying for new bezel insert
not sure that's including a new dial changed for free? 

SBGA461
SBGA463

screw GS they not even bother to change the crown position to 4 o'clock


----------



## egwatchfan

Watchyouloved said:


> They aren't smaller, same dimensions and the hi-beat are actually .7mm thicker. They are also releasing new spring drive models which look exactly the same as the previous ones just new model numbers.


From where did you obtain this information on new spring drive models that look exactly the same but with new reference numbers?


----------



## Watchyouloved

egwatchfan said:


> From where did you obtain this information on new spring drive models that look exactly the same but with new reference numbers?


Reliable source shared it in the Seiko forum

SBGA461


----------



## pureb

Do you guys expect the 231 to rise in value?


----------



## TCWU

pureb said:


> Do you guys expect the 231 to rise in value?


dude now is Sep
not April 1st   

I don't think any GS hold it's value
most of the time you won't even get your money back

when GS/SEIKO discontinued their older models
they offer huge discount in Japan/oversea

I got my SBGE015 new at oversea dealer @45% off ...

back to 2019 you can get 20-40% off from Timeless TX for triple names GS
they classified them as "used" but actually unworn
still have few left now @25% off






Grand Seiko Pre-Owned Archives - Timeless Luxury Watches







timelessluxwatches.com


----------



## One-Seventy

pureb said:


> Do you guys expect the 231 to rise in value?


Find a way to pump it mercilessly on social media. (Like, comment, subscribe.) Or get Hondinkee to write ahout how iconic/perfect/etc it is - that'll get the terminally hip falling over themselves to "invest" in something they couldn't have cared less about before they read the article.


----------



## Watchyouloved

pureb said:


> Do you guys expect the 231 to rise in value?


Not a chance man. The 231 is a mass produced watch that will most likely remain in their lineup for awhile as it's one of their iconic pieces and most popular, along with the snowflake, Spring (cherry blossom), sbgm221 and the diver.


----------



## Watchyouloved

TCWU said:


> dude now is Sep
> not April 1st
> 
> I don't think any GS hold it's value
> most of the time you won't even get your money back
> 
> when GS/SEIKO discontinued their older models
> they offer huge discount in Japan/oversea
> 
> I got my SBGE015 new at oversea dealer @45% off ...
> 
> back to 2019 you can get 20-40% off from Timeless TX for triple names GS
> they classified them as "used" but actually unworn
> still have few left now @25% off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Pre-Owned Archives - Timeless Luxury Watches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> timelessluxwatches.com


True, there are many discounts to be had though GS Is stopping most of it now. I will agree however that a GS barely hold value unless you get something limited edition of course. SBGY003 comes to mind.


----------



## pureb

Watchyouloved said:


> Not a chance man. The 231 is a mass produced watch that will most likely remain in their lineup for awhile as it's one of their iconic pieces and most popular, along with the snowflake, Spring (cherry blossom), sbgm221 and the diver.


The SBGA231, not the SBGW


----------



## Watchyouloved

pureb said:


> The SBGA231, not the SBGW


Oh gotcha, sorry for not catching that. Still same apply, it's one of their 5 most popular watches and the replacement will be exactly the same. Kind of like how seiko replaced some of their divers with new mode numbers but it's the exact same watch so it won't affect value.


----------



## JimmyBoots

Watchyouloved said:


> Reliable source shared it in the Seiko forum
> 
> SBGA461


Is there any more info on the 461. What kinda price increase are we looking at.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TCWU

JimmyBoots said:


> Is there any more info on the 461. What kinda price increase are we looking at.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


basically the same SD 200M diver watch 
the new ones not even come with ceramic bezel
the only different is under 10/20/30/40/50 on the bezel insert
new one with extra "dot" old one without 
each dot I bet is over $100 each
plus these are regular models
I would go after older models if I can get a decent discount


----------



## bibbibart

TCWU said:


> dude now is Sep
> not April 1st
> 
> I don't think any GS hold it's value
> most of the time you won't even get your money back
> 
> when GS/SEIKO discontinued their older models
> they offer huge discount in Japan/oversea
> 
> I got my SBGE015 new at oversea dealer @45% off ...
> 
> back to 2019 you can get 20-40% off from Timeless TX for triple names GS
> they classified them as "used" but actually unworn
> still have few left now @25% off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Pre-Owned Archives - Timeless Luxury Watches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> timelessluxwatches.com


On the other hand there are some models which actually gain value - Whirlpool, Kiku, Peacock - just to name a few.

Surely I wouldn't expect any upside on widely-accessible models like Snowflake.


----------



## bibbibart

pureb said:


> Do you guys expect the 231 to rise in value?


Not really. Unless they suddenly stop producing it & Hodinkee or alike write an article on how wonderful it is.


----------



## Lugan

bibbibart said:


> On the other hand there are some models which actually gain value - Whirlpool, Kiku, Peacock - just to name a few.
> 
> Surely I wouldn't expect any upside on widely-accessible models like Snowflake.


Another one with rising value is the LE SBGN001 from 2019. Interesting for a quartz watch to rise in value like it is.


----------



## bibbibart

Lugan said:


> Another one with rising value is the LE SBGN001. I regret selling mine mainly because of just missing having it, but now also because its value has risen. Interesting for a quartz watch to do that.


What a pitty. It's a great watch.

The same is true about very limited 017. And will probably be also the case with 025.


----------



## TCWU

Have you guys actually sold any GS/SEIKO before?
do you know how hard to sell Seiko/GS..even you just want to get your money back with unworn watch?

don't forget Ebay charge you 14% fees
if you break even on the price after fees you only get 86%/87% back!


----------



## Mark355

TCWU said:


> Have you guys actually sold any GS/SEIKO before? do you know how hard to sell Seiko/GS..even you just want to get your money back with unworn watch? don't forget Ebay charge you 14% fees


Why sell on eBay when you can sell here and have more exposure to the enthusiasts in the market for a niche piece?


----------



## TCWU

Mark355 said:


> Why sell on eBay when you can sell here and have more exposure to the enthusiasts in the market for a niche piece?


can not sell any watch here dude
do you mind tell us how many watch you sold here and have you made any money?
or you just want to get rid of the watch?
two separated issues?

my on sale watches most are NOSs
here people looking for bargain
no way I am going to lose money and let them go?


----------



## Mark355

I've sold plenty. Some I made a profit, most I didn't. I don't "invest" in watches. I invest in stocks. 

If you're upset that you're losing money flipping watches, I don't have much sympathy to lend. Sorry.


----------



## One-Seventy

TCWU said:


> Have you guys actually sold any GS/SEIKO before?
> do you know how hard to sell Seiko/GS..even you just want to get your money back with unworn watch?
> 
> don't forget Ebay charge you 14% fees
> if you break even on the price after fees you only get 86%/87% back!


Good reason for investors to invest their capital in something else then, isn't it, and leave watches to people who are actually interested in them. Or by "Grand Seiko" did you mean to write "orange juice and pork bellies"?


----------



## bibbibart

My proposal is to move the recent discussion to a new thread. 🛻


----------



## Watchyouloved

TCWU said:


> Have you guys actually sold any GS/SEIKO before?
> do you know how hard to sell Seiko/GS..even you just want to get your money back with unworn watch?
> 
> don't forget Ebay charge you 14% fees
> if you break even on the price after fees you only get 86%/87% back!


Yeah, plenty&#8230;

SBGY003. Used it for 3 years and sold it for almost double what I paid for it after fees etc.

Limited edition seiko's even the cheap 5's can give you more than what you paid. (Rowing blazers or evisen sushi)

SLA017 went up significantly more than what I paid for it.

SARB033 & 035 went up double what I paid for it.

Kira Zuri Grand Seiko doubled in value.

Seiko Orange monster doubled.

Seiko collab models quadrupled and still going&#8230;

I mean how many more models do you want me to name? You just don't buy watches to invest but if you're hell bent on value get the hot limited pieces and you should have good capital to swap it for something new and some.

Anyways, let's get back to talking some new watches !! I have heard some news regarding Grand Seiko's plans for the rest of the year.


----------



## Watchyouloved

So from what I heard Grand Seiko still has some really exciting models to be released in the next 3 months as waves to finish off the 140th anniversary with a bang. From what I’m hearing they’re saving the best for last.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Watchyouloved said:


> So from what I heard Grand Seiko still has some really exciting models to be released in the next 3 months as waves to finish off the 140th anniversary with a bang. From what I'm hearing they're saving the best for last.


Any clue whether they'll be LE or new standard productions?


----------



## acebruin

Watchyouloved said:


> So from what I heard Grand Seiko still has some really exciting models to be released in the next 3 months as waves to finish off the 140th anniversary with a bang. From what I'm hearing they're saving the best for last.


Anymore details? I can't wait to find out...


----------



## egwatchfan

acebruin said:


> Anymore details? I can't wait to find out...


Yeah come on!!!! Can't leave us hanging like this with that kind of a tease!!! ????


----------



## bibbibart

Watchyouloved said:


> So from what I heard Grand Seiko still has some really exciting models to be released in the next 3 months as waves to finish off the 140th anniversary with a bang. From what I'm hearing they're saving the best for last.


Ending your post here is just sheer CRUELTY!


----------



## Watchyouloved

Lol sorry guys but that’s literally all of the information I got 😅😅😅 unfortunately no more depth to it.


----------



## Overwound

SBGN025 is a new limited edition 9F GMT coming out in November.










Wrist shot (found online).


----------



## duckmcf

Overwound said:


> SBGN025 is a new limited edition 9F GMT coming out in November.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrist shot (found online).


For the love of God Grand Seiko, please put a rotating bezel on a watch from this series&#8230;


----------



## Redkite

duckmcf said:


> For the love of God Grand Seiko, please put a rotating bezel on a watch from this series&#8230;


If the bezel were to rotate the GMT numbers would have to go somewhere else.


----------



## johnMcKlane

duckmcf said:


> For the love of God Grand Seiko, please put a rotating bezel on a watch from this series&#8230;


For the love of God Grand Seiko, please put a white dial &#8230;


----------



## bibbibart

johnMcKlane said:


> For the love of God Grand Seiko, please put a white dial &#8230;


There is one - the previous year LE for Isetan Shinjuku Dept. Store. 56 pieces made. SBGN017.


----------



## Gzm

duckmcf said:


> For the love of God Grand Seiko, please put a rotating bezel on a watch from this series&#8230;


That dial is a lot more exciting than the one on my SBGK005. Are they more textured or is it just a flattering photo?


----------



## Watchyouloved

Redkite said:


> If the bezel were to rotate the GMT numbers would have to go somewhere else.


The rotating bezel is supposed to move in order to get a 3rd time zone&#8230;you know like the GMT master 2?


----------



## bibbibart

Gzm said:


> That dial is a lot more exciting than the one on my SBGK005. Are they more textured or is it just a flattering photo?


Yes they are more textured. It is applied in two references - SBGN017&025. If I remeber correctly GS depiected the dial texture as representing tree bark.

And IMHO my SBGK005 dial is much more subtle than that of these two quartz beauties.


----------



## JimmyBoots

I’m not sure what GS is thinking when they do limited releases like this. 

A 56 unit limited edition SBGN025 is a joke. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

JimmyBoots said:


> I'm not sure what GS is thinking when they do limited releases like this.
> 
> A 56 unit limited edition SBGN025 is a joke.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think it is quite normal for them. They have used to issue for many years now very limited editions for large department stores in Japan. Always one LE per given store. Generally for these where they had large sales/displays of their products.

Since introduction of their very narrow LEs for these dept stores they were destined for local GS clients. Evidently larger numbers were not necessary. Bear in mind - this is a LE for ONE DEPT STORE.

Next to those extremely LEs GS runs also some "local" LE - the main one is a LE for their Ginza boutiqies. These LEs are usually in 100+ pcs size.

Hope it helps.


----------



## One-Seventy

JimmyBoots said:


> I'm not sure what GS is thinking when they do limited releases like this.
> 
> A 56 unit limited edition SBGN025 is a joke.


I'm sorry why? The usual bellyaching is about too many LEs (10,007? ho ho) not too few. This is a special for one department store the other side of the world from America, which you obviously hadn't heard of until just now. So not sure how this can be classified as a "joke"


----------



## Robotaz

Mark355 said:


> I've sold plenty. Some I made a profit, most I didn't. I don't "invest" in watches. I invest in stocks.
> 
> If you're upset that you're losing money flipping watches, I don't have much sympathy to lend. Sorry.


It may sound odd, but there are still a lot of people who feel like sinking money on a watch is more of an investment than buying stock in a company.

Only reason I say this is because it's a timeless response here to bash or insult people for saying a watch is an investment, when some look at stock as potentially worthless paper.

I consider an investment anything I put time, energy, or money into and leave it at that. I'm inclusive!


----------



## JimmyBoots

One-Seventy said:


> I'm sorry why? The usual bellyaching is about too many LEs (10,007? ho ho) not too few. This is a special for one department store the other side of the world from America, which you obviously hadn't heard of until just now. So not sure how this can be classified as a "joke"


I heard about about this release when it was announced and chose to voice my opinion on a watch companies actions for the same reason you do.

It's a goddamn watch forum, it's what I'm here for.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Watchyouloved

One-Seventy said:


> I'm sorry why? The usual bellyaching is about too many LEs (10,007? ho ho) not too few. This is a special for one department store the other side of the world from America, which you obviously hadn't heard of until just now. So not sure how this can be classified as a "joke"


Exactly what I was thinking. Everyone complains that their limited runs are way too big and they need to do the crazy small limited runs like the Swiss do with 500 on the high side or 50-100 or sometimes 4 (JLC) and now GS is doing it and everyone is complaining. No&#8230;that in itself is the joke


----------



## brash47

It looks cool and I would buy...except my watch budget for the year is now blown lol.....wonder what happened....









Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## brianinCA

Overwound said:


> SBGN025 is a new limited edition 9F GMT coming out in November.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrist shot (found online).


I came across that wrist shot as well. I wonder if the dial really looks that shimmery in day to day wear or if it is mainly due to the bright shop lights. The renders make the dial look much more matte/subdued.


----------



## Overwound

brianinCA said:


> I came across that wrist shot as well. I wonder if the dial really looks that shimmery in day to day wear or if it is mainly due to the bright shop lights. The renders make the dial look much more matte/subdued.


Hard to say for sure but I think it's the very bright lighting that's accentuating the pattern. Possibly what it will look like outside in the direct sun.


----------



## Domo

Actually looks quite nice, both are autos, the men's is the 6L75 and the women's is the 2L75, both with display backs and an extra leather strap. I like 






GCCD983｜Linealx｜クレドール｜Credor


credor,クレドール,ドレスウオッチ,工芸品,ピクウェ,ダイヤモンド,匠,彫金,ソヌリ,ミニッツリピーターseiko,セイコー



www.credor.com


----------



## One-Seventy

JimmyBoots said:


> I heard about about this release when it was announced and chose to voice my opinion on a watch companies actions for the same reason you do.
> 
> It's a goddamn watch forum, it's what I'm here for.


You didn't elaborate on why a small LE run for a Japanese retailer is a "joke". Is it because they didn't make it available personally to you?


----------



## smalleq

One-Seventy said:


> I'm sorry why? The usual bellyaching is about too many LEs (10,007? ho ho) not too few. This is a special for one department store the other side of the world from America, which you obviously hadn't heard of until just now. So not sure how this can be classified as a "joke"


My complaint isn't that this is so limited for a limited edition, is that they make these cool versions limited in the first place. I think this one is good enough it should just be a standard version.


----------



## JimmyBoots

One-Seventy said:


> You didn't elaborate on why a small LE run for a Japanese retailer is a "joke". Is it because they didn't make it available personally to you?


When did I say that I thought the release is a joke because it wasn't personally available to me?

You are literally making that up.

A batch of 56 commissioned specifically for a store is a bit of a joke to me. In particular the SBGN017 with its white dial. I understand why GS would do it but producing extremely limited SE's like this is silly to me.

Personally I like the white one more but would prefer it on a non textured dial.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## One-Seventy

JimmyBoots said:


> When did I say that I thought the release is a joke because it wasn't personally available to me?
> 
> You are literally making that up.
> 
> A batch of 56 commissioned specifically for a store is a bit of a joke to me. In particular the SBGN017 with its white dial. I understand why GS would do it but producing extremely limited SE's like this is silly to me.
> 
> Personally I like the white one more but would prefer it on a non textured dial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I have to say that's a whole lot clearer now! Woe betide any manufacturer who makes genuinely small-batch limited editions then!


----------



## JimmyBoots

One-Seventy said:


> Well I have to say that's a whole lot clearer now! Woe betide any manufacturer who makes genuinely small-batch limited editions then!


Apparently woe betide any poster that casually comments their opinion that may ruffle your feathers.

Relax.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gzm

I reached out to Isetan about the SBGN025. It will be released on November 11th. First come first serve. Unsurprisingly they won’t ship it abroad.


----------



## One-Seventy

JimmyBoots said:


> Apparently woe betide any poster that casually comments their opinion that may ruffle your feathers.


Still none the wiser! LEs - joke of an idea apparently.


----------



## SMB72

Domo said:


> View attachment 16133147
> 
> 
> Actually looks quite nice, both are autos, the men's is the 6L75 and the women's is the 2L75, both with display backs and an extra leather strap. I like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GCCD983｜Linealx｜クレドール｜Credor
> 
> 
> credor,クレドール,ドレスウオッチ,工芸品,ピクウェ,ダイヤモンド,匠,彫金,ソヌリ,ミニッツリピーターseiko,セイコー
> 
> 
> 
> www.credor.com


These look pretty nice. I liked the look of the mocume game dial of the GBBY986 so it is nice to Credor using this again in a steel cased watch for half the price.


----------



## Domo

todoroki said:


> SBGM 249 Wako LE
> 
> 627000 yen
> 
> 50 pieces.
> 
> New Iwate dial which is pretty sweet!
> 
> View attachment 16085010


Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


----------



## bibbibart

Domo said:


> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
> View attachment 16154466


Stunning watch and a fantastic quality photo!

When I saw the stock photos of SBGM249 I thought - well, quite nice, but nothing „big”. A pale velvetish dial. But, hey, again the same story with GS - their official photos do not do their watches any justice…


----------



## Watchyouloved

*SBGA437, SBGA439, SBGA465, and SBGA467*


----------



## ndrs63

Watchyouloved said:


> *SBGA437, SBGA439, SBGA465, and SBGA467*
> View attachment 16162057


What model is the one on the left? Is it for real? Looks like an Sbga211 but not exactly the same (double hour marker at 12 and 6 as opposed to trapezoidal for the latter)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chrono Brewer

ndrs63 said:


> What model is the one on the left? Is it for real? Looks like an Sbga211 but not exactly the same (double hour marker at 12 and 6 as opposed to trapezoidal for the latter)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Full writeup for the four models on GS9 Club published 2hrs ago. SBGA465: "Winter arrives suddenly in Shinshu. Frost forms at night on the trees and, for a brief but beautiful moment, glistens in the morning sun before melting away. The fleeting beauty of this phenomenon is captured here." Mastershop models for Feb 2022.


----------



## chief-diversity-officer

ndrs63 said:


> What model is the one on the left? Is it for real? Looks like an Sbga211 but not exactly the same (double hour marker at 12 and 6 as opposed to trapezoidal for the latter)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its slightly smaller too. Also the power reserve is different. No display caseback im guessing?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

chief-diversity-officer said:


> Its slightly smaller too. Also the power reserve is different. No display caseback im guessing?


Product page says solid caseback. Seems a shame. Just keeping costs down?



https://grandseikoboutique.us/products/watch-spring-drive-silver-sbga465


----------



## Lugan

These new models use the old SD caliber. Hard to see the purpose of these watches. They seem similar to existing offerings. Any guesses why GS feels compelled to release them?


----------



## bibbibart

Lugan said:


> These new models use the old SD caliber. Hard to see the purpose of these watches. They seem similar to existing offerings. Any guesses why GS feels compelled to release them?


None. Especially if you bear in mind the recent words of the GS President that the current GS offering is bland (don’t remember exact words). 

These new models are soooo …


----------



## Joe90

Lugan said:


> These new models use the old SD caliber. Hard to see the purpose of these watches. They seem similar to existing offerings. Any guesses why GS feels compelled to release them?


I guess they still have inventory of the “older” generation of SD and Autos to be used?

I also wish they would hurry up and use their new movements.

I guess they might have old vs new representing different price points but I feel that most people buying GS will prefer not to compromise…?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Lugan said:


> These new models use the old SD caliber. Hard to see the purpose of these watches. They seem similar to existing offerings. Any guesses why GS feels compelled to release them?





Joe90 said:


> I guess they still have inventory of the “older” generation of SD and Autos to be used?
> 
> I also wish they would hurry up and use their new movements.
> 
> I guess they might have old vs new representing different price points but I feel that most people buying GS will prefer not to compromise…?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It would make a good strategy to let older movements go for less and not price out everyone. Agreed, they need more 9RA2 and 9SA5 pieces. And more dress options with the Omiwatari's 9R31, just with different dials. But these are all 2021 releases -- surely we'll see more next year. Maybe even a December surprise to round out the anniversary.

EDIT: Ask and you'll receive!









Plus9Time database showing more Spring Drive new...


The Plus9Time Grand Seiko database is showing two 9RA2 models, SLGA005 and SLGA009, in addition to the SLGA007 that's already been widely reported. It further indicates the SLGA009 is a cream colored dial with blue seconds hand. I already have a lot of blue pieces so I'm jazzed about the...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## ndrs63

chief-diversity-officer said:


> Its slightly smaller too. Also the power reserve is different. No display caseback im guessing?


Probably not, as it’s very slim. Also, a $1,000 price drop compared to the Snowflake. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ndrs63

Chrono Brewer said:


> Product page says solid caseback. Seems a shame. Just keeping costs down?
> 
> 
> 
> https://grandseikoboutique.us/products/watch-spring-drive-silver-sbga465


A shame indeed. Dashed my hopes for an identical but 40 mm version of snowflake. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Watchyouloved

SBGA443 is the international version of the SBGA413. The price of the 413 has just jumped by $300 and is reflected everywhere online. Some people are saying the 443 is steel as opposed to titanium but I doubt it as the price in JPY is equivalent to $6800 usd and the pics look like a darker metal as Ti would. Releases Feb 2022


----------



## covfefewithsugar

Lugan said:


> Any guesses why GS feels compelled to release them?


I can. This release is a roundabout $1000 price hike on the entry level spring drive models. The SBGA283 and 285, which are now gone, had a printed power gauge and 3 o'clock indice, brushed bracelet, 39mm case, 12.3mm thickness. They retailed for $3800. The new models are the same but with a slightly wider case, "new" dials, and double indices at 6, 9, and 12. They retail for $4800. 

SBGA467 pictured on the left and SBGA285 on the right. I imagine the color of the steel is actually the same so ignore the lighting difference.

Despite ticking all my boxes (stainless steel, spring drive, short lug to lug, brushed bracelet), this release is extremely disappointing.


----------



## Lugan

covfefewithsugar said:


> View attachment 16166058
> View attachment 16166059
> 
> 
> I can. This release is a roundabout $1000 price hike on the entry level spring drive models. The SBGA283 and 285, which are now gone, had a printed power gauge and 3 o'clock indice, brushed bracelet, 39mm case, 12.3mm thickness. They retailed for $3800. The new models are the same but with a slightly wider case, "new" dials, and double indices at 6, 9, and 12. They retail for $4800.
> 
> SBGA467 pictured on the left and SBGA285 on the right. I imagine the color of the steel is actually the same so ignore the lighting difference.
> 
> Despite ticking all my boxes (stainless steel, spring drive, short lug to lug, brushed bracelet), this release is extremely disappointing.


Totally see and agree with the minor changes, and your conclusion. Tweaks, a price rise, and WIS wallets firmly glued inside pockets.


----------



## percysmith

Chrono Brewer said:


> Product page says solid caseback. Seems a shame. Just keeping costs down?
> 
> 
> 
> https://grandseikoboutique.us/products/watch-spring-drive-silver-sbga465





covfefewithsugar said:


> View attachment 16166058
> View attachment 16166059
> 
> 
> I can. This release is a roundabout $1000 price hike on the entry level spring drive models. The SBGA283 and 285, which are now gone, had a printed power gauge and 3 o'clock indice, brushed bracelet, 39mm case, 12.3mm thickness. They retailed for $3800. The new models are the same but with a slightly wider case, "new" dials, and double indices at 6, 9, and 12. They retail for $4800.
> 
> SBGA467 pictured on the left and SBGA285 on the right. I imagine the color of the steel is actually the same so ignore the lighting difference.
> 
> Despite ticking all my boxes (stainless steel, spring drive, short lug to lug, brushed bracelet), this release is extremely disappointing.


If either model had glass caseback like the Kanro I'd snap it up in a heartbeat.


----------



## covfefewithsugar

percysmith said:


> If either model had glass caseback like the Kanro I'd snap it up in a heartbeat.


Ah, but then the $4800 entry level model would have one more differentiating feature of the $4900 SBGA203 (sticking with black dials here for easy comparison). Which begs the question: If they just replaced the entry level spring drives with $4800 models, does it make sense that the next tier spring drive with PCLs, glass casebook, and textured power gauge is $4900? While the white and blue dials do not have a direct competitor, the black and silver/champagne dials are hopelessly outclassed by their $4900 counterparts. I wouldn't be surprised to see the $4900 options go the way of the $3800 entry levels and maybe a price bump for the 44gs spring drives. SBGA427 and 429 with glass case backs, textured power gauge, extra crocodile strap, and special edition dial features for $5000 don't make a lot of sense either in the context of $4800 entry level models. 

Interesting strategy by GS. Anyone who thought about pulling the trigger on an SBGA283 or 285 should do so now.


----------



## percysmith

covfefewithsugar said:


> View attachment 16166386
> View attachment 16166387
> 
> 
> Ah, but then the $4800 entry level model would have one more differentiating feature of the $4900 SBGA203 (sticking with black dials here for easy comparison). Which begs the question: If they just replaced the entry level spring drives with $4800 models, does it make sense that the next tier spring drive with PCLs, glass casebook, and textured power gauge is $4900? While the white and blue dials do not have a direct competitor, the black and silver/champagne dials are hopelessly outclassed by their $4900 counterparts. I wouldn't be surprised to see the $4900 options go the way of the $3800 entry levels and maybe a price bump for the 44gs spring drives. SBGA427 and 429 with glass case backs, textured power gauge, extra crocodile strap, and special edition dial features for $5000 don't make a lot of sense either in the context of $4800 entry level models.
> 
> Interesting strategy by GS. Anyone who thought about pulling the trigger on an SBGA283 or 285 should do so now.


Oh. I looked at the SBGA203. I can't live with the scarred face.


----------



## Brent L. Miller

I had exactly similar thoughts as @covfefewithsugar when I saw these releases the other morning via email. It makes the 283 I've been considering for a bit now look even more enticing.


----------



## covfefewithsugar

Brent L. Miller said:


> I had exactly similar thoughts as @covfefewithsugar when I saw these releases the other morning via email. It makes the 283 I've been considering for a bit now look even more enticing.


Can't go wrong with the 283. One of the best GS dials period and great case proportions for an entry level price. I'm sad to see the value proposition disappear.


----------



## percysmith

Chrono Brewer said:


> Product page says solid caseback. Seems a shame. Just keeping costs down?
> 
> 
> 
> https://grandseikoboutique.us/products/watch-spring-drive-silver-sbga465


What's the chance of retro-fitting a see-through caseback to a SBGA285?


----------



## covfefewithsugar

percysmith said:


> What's the chance of retro-fitting a see-through caseback to a SBGA285?


I'm pretty sure the 427 and 429, which have glass casebacks, use the same case as the 283 and 285. It might be possible if you wanted it badly enough.


----------



## Madventure

Those EU LEs are at the local dealership already. I need to rise through the ranks before I can post a picture. The gorgeous rice paper texture is actually rather hard to see with the naked eye; especially compared how loud the birch or even the snowflake is. So it's much more subtle than the close up shots make appear.


----------



## Madventure




----------



## TraserH3

covfefewithsugar said:


> View attachment 16166386
> View attachment 16166387
> 
> 
> Ah, but then the $4800 entry level model would have one more differentiating feature of the $4900 SBGA203 (sticking with black dials here for easy comparison). Which begs the question: If they just replaced the entry level spring drives with $4800 models, does it make sense that the next tier spring drive with PCLs, glass casebook, and textured power gauge is $4900? While the white and blue dials do not have a direct competitor, the black and silver/champagne dials are hopelessly outclassed by their $4900 counterparts. I wouldn't be surprised to see the $4900 options go the way of the $3800 entry levels and maybe a price bump for the 44gs spring drives. SBGA427 and 429 with glass case backs, textured power gauge, extra crocodile strap, and special edition dial features for $5000 don't make a lot of sense either in the context of $4800 entry level models.
> 
> Interesting strategy by GS. Anyone who thought about pulling the trigger on an SBGA283 or 285 should do so now.



What is the lug to lug measurement on the older model?

The press release on the new replacement model made it sound like they've shortened the lug to lug.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

New SBGY008, the gold and diamond version of SBGY007 Omiwatari. Must say I prefer the white dial but otherwise gold, diamonds, and a price like that just don't suit me. Made a thread for it here.








SBGY008: Omiwatari's blingin' sibling


New on the scene is the SBGY008 Shizuri-yuki, the more wealthy sibling to SBGY007 Omiwatari. Sharing the 9R31 manual-wind Spring Drive movement and case dimensions. Otherwise the powder blue dial texture is now white, the stainless steel is now 18k rose gold, and the case sides are lined with 53...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## One-Seventy

Madventure said:


> Those EU LEs are at the local dealership already. I need to rise through the ranks before I can post a picture. The gorgeous rice paper texture is actually rather hard to see with the naked eye; especially compared how loud the birch or even the snowflake is. So it's much more subtle than the close up shots make appear.


They're European editions, not "EU", and not limited.


----------



## Watchyouloved

*SBGM245 and SBGM247*​


----------



## percysmith

covfefewithsugar said:


> View attachment 16166058
> View attachment 16166059
> 
> 
> I can. This release is a roundabout $1000 price hike on the entry level spring drive models. The SBGA283 and 285, which are now gone, had a printed power gauge and 3 o'clock indice, brushed bracelet, 39mm case, 12.3mm thickness. They retailed for $3800. The new models are the same but with a slightly wider case, "new" dials, and double indices at 6, 9, and 12. They retail for $4800.
> 
> SBGA467 pictured on the left and SBGA285 on the right. I imagine the color of the steel is actually the same so ignore the lighting difference.
> 
> Despite ticking all my boxes (stainless steel, spring drive, short lug to lug, brushed bracelet), this release is extremely disappointing.


One other difference: glossy ("inky") dial on the 467 vs matte on the 465 https://grandseikogs9club.com/chronicle-9/sbga437-sbga439-sbga465-sbga467-spring-drive/ ?


----------



## One-Seventy

Watchyouloved said:


> *SBGM245 and SBGM247*​


Wahey!

24h hand could do with re-mounting on the blue one  but otherwise I like these. I'd take either. Trimmed date window is a nice touch, and the elegant lugs. Interesting.


----------



## snikerdewdle

Since I'll never be able to justify owning an explorer ii the SBGM247 will probably be my next watch. I really liked the GMTs that they released last year but couldn't see myself buying one with the ceramic bezel. Would be nice if they were under 14mm thick though after wearing a Black Bay GMT for a year I don't mind the thickness any more. The green and orange look killer and can't wait to see these at the AD.


----------



## Domo

Watchyouloved said:


> *SBGM245 and SBGM247*​











Ooof hot damn


----------



## MickCollins1916

Watchyouloved said:


> *SBGM245 and SBGM247*​


I like the dial colors on both, but would it have killed these guys to have put some serious lume on these models, skipped the inner odd hour track, and added a rotating bezel?! Argh. 

Love the green tho, will probably own it at some point.


----------



## snikerdewdle

MickCollins1916 said:


> I like the dial colors on both, but would it have killed these guys to have put some serious lume on these models, skipped the inner odd hour track, and added a rotating bezel?! Argh.
> 
> Love the green tho, will probably own it at some point.


I'm with you on the lume and odd inner hour track, but really like the solid explorer II style bezel.


----------



## MickCollins1916

snikerdewdle said:


> I'm with you on the lume and odd inner hour track, but really like the solid explorer II style bezel.


Yea, the solid steel bezel is cool…I dig the one on my SBGN005. That’s probably the least of my gripes, but honestly, I think I dig these models either way. Very cool dial colors.


----------



## brash47

MickCollins1916 said:


> I like the dial colors on both, but would it have killed these guys to have put some serious lume on these models, skipped the inner odd hour track, and added a rotating bezel?! Argh.
> 
> Love the green tho, will probably own it at some point.


They already make a gmt with rotating bezel. I think this watch is specifically targeting a market...as did the SBGN's and it's going to hit the mark. 

Christopher Ward released theirs recently and they are selling like hotcakes. 

I see this one selling very well just like the 9F version. I was surprised it took this long and I for one will be grabbing one. I was in the market for that dreaded R**** but will likely see it in about 10 years. 

This will probably kick it in the pants just like the 9F did. 

I have have the SD version with ceramic bezel and wear it all the time. 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## duckmcf

Watchyouloved said:


> *SBGM245 and SBGM247*​


Those dials look fabulous, but I’ll pass.

It’ll take a GS GMT that’s around 12mm thick with a rotating bezel (regardless of movement type) for me to be all in. Something like a SBGN001/003/005 with a rotating bezel would have me pulling out my credit card in a New York minute.

Until then, I’ll be waiting in the wings…

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## westcoastco

Are GMTs more than half of the GS catalog now? We are getting to a point where the dial on the simpler pieces should say non-GMT at the bottom.


----------



## mitch57

westcoastco said:


> Are GMTs more than half of the GS catalog now? We are getting to a point where the dial on the simpler pieces should say non-GMT at the bottom.


Agreed. I think GS has WAY to many GMT models. What is with that anyway? Why do they consistently keep releasing new GMT models way more often then they do any other models?


----------



## One-Seventy

duckmcf said:


> Those dials look fabulous, but I’ll pass.
> 
> It’ll take a GS GMT that’s around 12mm thick with a rotating bezel (regardless of movement type) for me to be all in. Something like a SBGN001/003/005 with a rotating bezel would have me pulling out my credit card in a New York minute.
> 
> Until then, I’ll be waiting in the wings…
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel


They already make one - it's automatic, and has a sapphire-coated bezel. But rotating dive-style bezels are not a big part of GS's design toolkit. If you want a watch that looks like a Rolex GMT, though, it's easier just to buy one of those!


----------



## duckmcf

One-Seventy said:


> They already make one - it's automatic, and has a sapphire-coated bezel. But rotating dive-style bezels are not a big part of GS's design toolkit. If you want a watch that looks like a Rolex GMT, though, it's easier just to buy one of those!


Actually, I’ve owned a 16710 Rolex GMT-II (listed in my sig) for nearly 20 years; it’s the perfect tool watch. The only problem is, in recent years I’ve started to feel like a tool whenever I wear it, especially if I’m in short sleeves.

But anyway, I’m familiar with the watch you mentioned. A few years ago I tried on the SBGE201 Spring Drive version at my local Seiko boutique. As I compared the SBGE201 back to back with my Rolex GMT it was immediately obvious that it’s too big, especially the thickness, and at 14.4mm the newer SBGJ237 is also too thick, for me.

I also tried on the then available SBGN001, and against the Rolex its dimensions were perfect and it sat beautifully on my wrist. But after 20 years with a rotating bezel GMT I know how useful it is and so the SBGN001 was a non-starter, as is the still available SBGN005.

When / if GS makes a SBGN005 sized GMT watch with a rotating bezel, I’ll happily retire my Rolex. Until then, I’ll patiently wait on the GS side lines…

Cheers,
Noel

PS If I had more time, I’d have written a shorter post.


----------



## Domo

MickCollins1916 said:


> I like the dial colors on both, but would it have killed these guys to have put some serious lume on these models, skipped the inner odd hour track, and added a rotating bezel?! Argh.
> 
> Love the green tho, will probably own it at some point.





snikerdewdle said:


> I'm with you on the lume and odd inner hour track, but really like the solid explorer II style bezel.


You guys should be happy you got this much lume. The original SBGM029 which everyone went absolutely nuts over in The Before-time had none


----------



## snikerdewdle

Domo said:


> You guys should be happy you got this much lume. The original SBGM029 which everyone went absolutely nuts over in The Before-time had none


Lol, I guess your are right. It's been my biggest gripe with them for so long. Just give me a snowflake with lume!!!


----------



## covfefewithsugar

snikerdewdle said:


> Lol, I guess your are right. It's been my biggest gripe with them for so long. Just give me a snowflake with lume!!!


To me, the highly reflective dauphine hands and polished indices are one of the best things about the snowflake (and other light-dialed GS). I wouldn't trade them for flat-looking lume, especially on a white dial.


----------



## Lugan

Why do some of you want a rotating bezel for these watches? They already come with a true traveler's GMT function (hour hand moves independently). Are you looking for ability to track a third time zone?


----------



## Joe90

Lugan said:


> Why do some of you want a rotating bezel for these watches? They already come with a true traveler's GMT function (hour hand moves independently). Are you looking for ability to track a third time zone?


I’m not looking for one myself and I think I would prefer the simplicity of a fixed bezel.

I guess with a rotating bezel you could time minutes too (a bit like on a dive watch)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lugan

Except it's got 24 hour numbering, not 60 minutes, on the bezel. Maybe people are implying that the bezel have 60 minutes numbering in addition to rotating?


----------



## BarracksSi

Lugan said:


> Why do some of you want a rotating bezel for these watches? They already come with a true traveler's GMT function (hour hand moves independently). *Are you looking for ability to track a third time zone?*


Why not?


----------



## One-Seventy

duckmcf said:


> Actually, I’ve owned a 16710 Rolex GMT-II (listed in my sig) for nearly 20 years; it’s the perfect tool watch. The only problem is, in recent years I’ve started to feel like a tool whenever I wear it, especially if I’m in short sleeves.


_Illegitimi non carborundum_. I reckon watch types can easily tell a vintage or old Rolex from a new one, and non-watch types... aren't that bothered in the first place.


> PS If I had more time, I’d have written a shorter post.


----------



## Lugan

BarracksSi said:


> Why not?


Good point! Except a few people are emphatic about dismissing this one for lack of rotating bezel, which suggests the feature is more than a "why not".


----------



## deepsea03

on a positive note, at least they are not Limited.

my closest AD is about 3 hours away so if I don't make it the release day, there is a chance I can still see and handle one 

Did I read November release?


----------



## MstrDabbles

deepsea03 said:


> on a positive note, at least they are not Limited.
> 
> my closest AD is about 3 hours away so if I don't make it the release day, there is a chance I can still see and handle one
> 
> Did I read November release?


That is correct. 
I put in a deposit for the Hunter Green. Saw a video of it and pretty much fell in love.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## duckmcf

Lugan said:


> Why do some of you want a rotating bezel for these watches?


Here’s my list of why a fixed bezel is a non-starter.

I do need to track multiple timezones. I live in Australia, but I work with people all over the world. With the third hand set to GMT, I know that the European time zones are a few clicks to the left, the Asian zones a few more clicks left and the US zones a few clicks right.

Being a true GMT makes it even more important to have a rotating bezel, especially if the watch is HAQ. With an “office” GMT you can move the 24hr hand at will, without hacking the movement. A “true” GMT means that you can’t change the 2nd time zone without hacking the movement. Something that the HAQ crowd would find, distasteful…

Easy timing of elapsed events. I’ve used my Rolex GMT for timing all sorts of things like brewing tea, parking meters and the cooking time for pulled pork. If it’s a short interval you can line up the bezel triangle with the minute hand and, even with the 24hr markings, you can easily read off the elapsed time. For long intervals, you line up the bezel triangle with the GMT hand and directly read off elapsed hours. Admittedly, this works much better with bezels that have 120 clicks than the 48 clicks that newer GMT watches have.

The bezel insert works as the watch’s bumper-bar. Bang the watch into something and the face of the watch will be as good as new with a replacement bezel. Years ago I had an IWC mark 12, and dinged it’s really badly. If that watch had a rotating bezel it would’ve been an easy fix. I shudder to think how I’d feel if I banged up a Zaratsu polished fixed bezel.

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> I do need to track multiple timezones. I live in Australia, but I work with people all over the world. With the third hand set to GMT, I know that the European time zones are a few clicks to the left, the Asian zones a few more clicks left and the US zones a few clicks right.
> 
> Being a true GMT makes it even more important to have a rotating bezel, especially if the watch is HAQ. With an “office” GMT you can move the 24hr hand at will, without hacking the movement. A “true” GMT means that you can’t change the 2nd time zone without hacking the movement. Something that the HAQ crowd would find, distasteful…


Wouldn’t an office GMT suit you better? Plenty more 2893-2 based choices when all you need is an office GMT. Also easier to set overseas time.

True GMT is for travel? So I envisage two time zones only. Not they I’d put a GS with all that Zaratsu polishing in my travel bag


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> Wouldn’t an office GMT suit you better? Plenty more 2893-2 based choices when all you need is an office GMT. Also easier to set overseas time.
> 
> True GMT is for travel? So I envisage two time zones only. Not they I’d put a GS with all that Zaratsu polishing in my travel bag


I’ve looked at a few _Office_ GMT’s, and while some of them are nice, they’re not for me. When the world’s done with Covid I’ll probably start traveling again, and even if I don’t, I love the convenience of a jumping hour hand that always makes me smile when daylight savings changes…


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> I’ve looked at a few _Office_ GMT’s, and while some of them are nice, they’re not for me. When the world’s done with Covid I’ll probably start traveling again, and even if I don’t, I love the convenience of a jumping hour hand that always makes me smile when daylight savings changes…


Daylight savings is once every six months. I think you hack your watches more than that? Fine, maybe not a Spring Drive (how do you even service that thing down under?) or a Calibre 3285.

I used to travel a lot pre-pandemic (look at my handle under Flyertalk). I had a mechanical watch back then but didn’t travel with it - it was really during the pandemic did I really get into WIS. While I’d love a True GMT to travel, none of the pieces are practical - either they have to be babied like GS, they’re a crime magnet like Rolex or they’re too large to be comfortable like Mido. Plus it has to not hurt if I drop it in some seat storage cabinet or hotel room.

I don’t see a bezel being essential for travel - once you’re there, what time zones are you tracking? Local time, home time and? Bear in mind even the original Pan-Am GMT tracked only two.

Only in the office would I track three, and I wish the price/difficulty propositions between office and true GMTs were switched - true being easy and cheap, and office being hard and pricey (and I can justify a few more blingy pieces).

I have the Merkur GMT lined up for travel whenever that’s allowed from here. It’s cheap, got good lume, keeps good time and not anything they will attract unwanted attention. The only thing it’s not is a true GMT. Yes it has a bezel that is not entirely necessary, but I haven’t found any other GMT that fits my travel role nearly as well. I’ll probably re-hack the watch every time my plane’s taxiing.


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> Daylight savings is once every six months. I think you hack your watches more than that? Fine, maybe not a Spring Drive (how do you even service that thing down under?) or a Calibre 3285.
> 
> I used to travel a lot pre-pandemic (look at my handle under Flyertalk). I had a mechanical watch back then but didn’t travel with it - it was really during the pandemic did I really get into WIS. While I’d love a True GMT to travel, none of the pieces are practical - either they have to be babied like GS, they’re a crime magnet like Rolex or they’re too large to be comfortable like Mido. Plus it has to not hurt if I drop it in some seat storage cabinet or hotel room.
> 
> I don’t see a bezel being essential for travel - once you’re there, what time zones are you tracking? Local time, home time and? Bear in mind even the original Pan-Am GMT tracked only two.
> 
> Only in the office would I track three, and I wish the price/difficulty propositions between office and true GMTs were switched - true being easy and cheap, and office being hard and pricey (and I can justify a few more blingy pieces).
> 
> I have the Merkur GMT lined up for travel whenever that’s allowed from here. It’s cheap, got good lume, keeps good time and not anything they will attract unwanted attention. The only thing it’s not is a true GMT. Yes it has a bezel that is not entirely necessary, but I haven’t found any other GMT that fits my travel role nearly as well. I’ll probably re-hack the watch every time my plane’s taxiing.


I’m now deep into my 50’s and I’m done compromising. I now know myself well enough to know that if I settle for something that isn’t quite right, or not quite what I want, it won’t get better with time. It’ll be a splinter in my mind that I just can’t dig out.

Grand Seiko are so close to making my personally perfect watch that I can almost taste it. A SBGN001/3/5 with a rotating bezel is that watch. I don’t even care what the bezel insert is made from, sapphire glass with lume would be awesome, but I’d be all in with a simple aluminium bezel too.

Every time GS releases yet another true GMT watch with a fixed bezel, well, saying that it‘s like a dagger to my heart is a bit strong, but only a bit.

Ultimately, you like what you like, and I like what I like, but re-hacking a watch every time your plane is taxiing sounds like madness to me. I’d rather hack my watch once every 3ish years, just after it gets a new battery…

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## One-Seventy

You can always try to remember the third time zone in your head...  

Earlier in the thread there was this point that "true" (spit) GMT watches, or more helpfully _traveller's_ GMTs, do not allow you to change the 24h hand. Of course, that's originally the point - home time is supposed to be fixed, unless you happen to be away whenever there is a DST adjustment. Big deal, you'd have to hack your other watches anyway. However, combining a quick set 12h hand with the rotating 24h bezel method of the original Glycine Airman (and a year later, Rolex GMT) means you can adjust where both 12h and 24h hands are pointing, without hacking the watch. 

For an automatic, this is common (lots of manufacturers offer it) but less interesting, since the watch will need hacking and adjusting from time to time anyway. But for a HAQ whose value is in providing a precise time reference, I can see a marginal use case for it.


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> Grand Seiko are so close to making my personally perfect watch that I can almost taste it. A SBGN001/3/5 with a rotating bezel is that watch. I don’t even care what the bezel insert is made from, sapphire glass with lume would be awesome, but I’d be all in with a simple aluminium bezel too.
> 
> Every time GS releases yet another true GMT watch with a fixed bezel, well, saying that it‘s like a dagger to my heart is a bit strong, but only a bit.


Wondering how do you plan to to deal with service issues? Uptick noted misaligned bezels even in the Grand Seiko GMT lines, and Jody noted Seiko in Aus isn't much better.

I don't have a bezel on mine, and it's a mechanical movement so my independent watchmaker here in HK can handle movement servicing, though I shudder to think how much time is needed if it's the Zaratsu that needs touching up, and would Seiko HK (Thongsia) even deal with my parallel import.

P.S.Seiko releasing 18 models today incl Grand Seiko GMTs **NEW and UPCOMING Seiko watches**


----------



## johnMcKlane

percysmith said:


> P.S.Seiko releasing 18 models today incl Grand Seiko GMTs *NEW and UPCOMING Seiko watches*


i cant wait !


----------



## Watchyouloved

1-4 are the USA season models released world wide
5-6 is the 2 new auto GMTs
7-10 is the 4 new quartz dress watches
11 is a new gold model
12-13 are the new hi-beat diver’s.

so 2 watches to be revealed!


----------



## deepsea03

MstrDabbles said:


> That is correct.
> I put in a deposit for the Hunter Green. Saw a video of it and pretty much fell in love.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks
I put a deposit down on the 247 this morning!


----------



## percysmith

Watchyouloved said:


> 1-4 are the USA season models released world wide
> 5-6 is the 2 new auto GMTs
> 7-10 is the 4 new quartz dress watches
> 11 is a new gold model
> 12-13 are the new hi-beat diver’s.
> 
> so 2 watches to be revealed!


1-6 included in here グランドセイコー公式サイト ?


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> Those dials look fabulous, but I’ll pass.
> 
> It’ll take a GS GMT that’s around 12mm thick with a rotating bezel (regardless of movement type) for me to be all in. Something like a SBGN001/003/005 with a rotating bezel would have me pulling out my credit card in a New York minute.
> 
> Until then, I’ll be waiting in the wings…
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel


OK it’s certified - there’re only two GMTs this release, the two fixed bezel GMTs. [STRIKE]Spring Drive[/STRIKE] and 14.4mm thick, so not for me either









Grand Seiko Reveals Sporty New GMT models


Grand Seiko reveals new sporty GMT references with 9F calibers




wornandwound.com


----------



## One-Seventy

percysmith said:


> OK it’s certified - there’re only two GMTs this release, the two fixed bezel GMTs. Spring Drive and 14.4mm thick, so not for me either
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Reveals Sporty New GMT models
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko reveals new sporty GMT references with 9F calibers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wornandwound.com


They're automatics - it's right on the dial!


----------



## BarracksSi

One-Seventy said:


> They're automatics - it's right on the dial!


but but but Spring Drive is automatic(-ally winding)…


----------



## percysmith

One-Seventy said:


> They're automatics - it's right on the dial!





BarracksSi said:


> but but but Spring Drive is automatic(-ally winding)…


What was I thinking - sorry! But still way too thick.


----------



## BarracksSi

percysmith said:


> What was I thinking - sorry! But still way too thick.


I agree about the thickness. I got to handle the earlier GMT (without the numbered bezel) and I wanted to like it. But daggone, it was awfully bulky for what I’d call a business-class watch.


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> OK it’s certified - there’re only two GMTs this release, the two fixed bezel GMTs. [STRIKE]Spring Drive[/STRIKE] and 14.4mm thick, so not for me either
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Reveals Sporty New GMT models
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko reveals new sporty GMT references with 9F calibers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wornandwound.com


…the wait continues….


----------



## One-Seventy

percysmith said:


> What was I thinking - sorry! But still way too thick.


It is quite thick, but a cursory review of the compo shows that unfortunately the size sort of comes with the territory. Unless you're ok with a more pedestrian movement, sporty automatic GMTs are generally in the GS's ballpark:

Tudor Black Bay GMT 14.7mm
Norqain Neverest or Freedom GMT 14.5mm
Omega AT Worldtimer 14.1mm
Oris ProPilot GMT 14.5mm (manual-wind)
Mido Ocean Star GMT 13.5mm is about the thinnest I can find that has travel-GMT functionality and more than 42hr of PR.

If you want under 13mm, you have to have something with the 2893-family movement, which is "office" only and has a unexceptional power reserve. TAG-Heuer, Breitling, Zodiac, Glycine ,CW, all much thinner.

There's always an exception, and that tests this "rule" is the Rolex GMT - you know how easy they are to get .


----------



## MstrDabbles

One-Seventy said:


> It is quite thick, but a cursory review of the compo shows that unfortunately the size sort of comes with the territory. Unless you're ok with a more pedestrian movement, sporty automatic GMTs are generally in the GS's ballpark:
> 
> Tudor Black Bay GMT 14.7mm
> Norqain Neverest or Freedom GMT 14.5mm
> Omega AT Worldtimer 14.1mm
> Oris ProPilot GMT 14.5mm (manual-wind)
> Mido Ocean Star GMT 13.5mm is about the thinnest I can find that has travel-GMT functionality and more than 42hr of PR.
> 
> If you want under 13mm, you have to have something with the 2893-family movement, which is "office" only and has a unexceptional power reserve. TAG-Heuer, Breitling, Zodiac, Glycine ,CW, all much thinner.
> 
> There's always an exception, and that tests this "rule" is the Rolex GMT - you know how easy they are to get .


And i’d have to say, of those true GMT’s you posted, these new GMT’s from GS probably wear better than most .
I know. I know. You’ve probably heard this a million times already but it’s true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## percysmith

One-Seventy said:


> Tudor Black Bay GMT 14.7mm
> Norqain Neverest or Freedom GMT 14.5mm
> Omega AT Worldtimer 14.1mm
> Oris ProPilot GMT 14.5mm (manual-wind)


Yes that’s what I meant.



One-Seventy said:


> Mido Ocean Star GMT 13.5mm is about the thinnest I can find that has travel-GMT functionality and more than 42hr of PR.


I had a bad experience with the Powermatic 80 movement previously.



One-Seventy said:


> If you want under 13mm, you have to have something with the 2893-family movement, which is "office" only and has a unexceptional power reserve. TAG-Heuer, Breitling, Zodiac, Glycine ,CW, all much thinner.


Or something based on the Hangzhou 6460 like the Merkur GMT



One-Seventy said:


> There's always an exception, and that tests this "rule" is the Rolex GMT - you know how easy they are to get .


Not difficult where I live. Just mind-blowing expensive - something that will definitely hurt if I drop it when travelling and attracts criminals


----------



## percysmith

P.S. one idea to go maybe a watch with a bezel and a moving hour hand like Seamaster (8500/8900 not 8800). Unless tracking three time zones, GMT hand isn’t strictly necessary?

(But with 8500/8900 with bezel, my only choice is the PO, isn't it?








Omega caliber 8500 » WatchBase


Full details and images of the Omega caliber 8500, including a list of all watches using this movement.




watchbase.com




Omega caliber 8900 » WatchBase )


----------



## MickCollins1916

brash47 said:


> They already make a gmt with rotating bezel. I think this watch is specifically targeting a market...as did the SBGN's and it's going to hit the mark.
> 
> Christopher Ward released theirs recently and they are selling like hotcakes.
> 
> I see this one selling very well just like the 9F version. I was surprised it took this long and I for one will be grabbing one. I was in the market for that dreaded R**** but will likely see it in about 10 years.
> 
> This will probably kick it in the pants just like the 9F did.
> 
> I have have the SD version with ceramic bezel and wear it all the time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Yes, I’m aware of the one with the rotating bezel…which isn’t for me. To each their own, lovely watch tho.

My SBGJ201, SBGN005, and SBGE257 GMTs are superb, from my perspective. Huge fan of them.

Little o/t, but FWIW, I’ve had (and have) a fair number of vintage and modern offerings from the crown. The only facet of modern R I like better than GS is in the bracelet area. 

I like the bracelets on my GS just fine, but glidelock like on my SD43 is next level. I’m more focused on GS these days, in spite of minor things on my wish list I might change. 
I like their focus on offering more of the things customers want, the fact they actually have watches to sell, etc. Huge GS fan!


----------



## brash47

MickCollins1916 said:


> Yes, I’m aware of the one with the rotating bezel…which isn’t for me. To each their own, lovely watch tho.
> 
> My SBGJ201, SBGN005, and SBGE257 GMTs are superb, from my perspective. Huge fan of them.
> 
> Little o/t, but FWIW, I’ve had (and have) a fair number of vintage and modern offerings from the crown. The only facet of modern R I like better than GS is in the bracelet area.
> 
> I like the bracelets on my GS just fine, but glidelock like on my SD43 is next level. I’m more focused on GS these days, in spite of minor things on my wish list I might change.
> I like their focus on offering more of the things customers want, the fact they actually have watches to sell, etc. Huge GS fan!


I agree with you. If GS did just a little work with their clasps it could bring in a larger group of purchasers. I've heard more about GS bracelets lacking than any other problem. 

Second is always size....but then...that's what she said!!

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


----------



## percysmith

I've not much to complain about my bracelet.

But I scarred a couple of screwheads when resizing (same with my Omega, I later got a specialised screwdriver). Where can I get replacement screws? Service centre?


----------



## chatman

Chrono Brewer said:


> New SBGY008, the gold and diamond version of SBGY007 Omiwatari. Must say I prefer the white dial but otherwise gold, diamonds, and a price like that just don't suit me. Made a thread for it here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SBGY008: Omiwatari's blingin' sibling
> 
> 
> New on the scene is the SBGY008 Shizuri-yuki, the more wealthy sibling to SBGY007 Omiwatari. Sharing the 9R31 manual-wind Spring Drive movement and case dimensions. Otherwise the powder blue dial texture is now white, the stainless steel is now 18k rose gold, and the case sides are lined with 53...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16174126
> View attachment 16174129


Yuck. I really don't like this one. All the blandness of a gold dress watch with the gaudy addition of diamonds. $38K for that is ludicrous. A Patek Calatrava automatic with center seconds is a better choice at $33K, though I still find that watch dreadfully dull. Sign me up for an F.P. Journe Chronometre Souverain over this gaudy snoozer. Or an Eichi II!


----------



## One-Seventy

percysmith said:


> Not difficult where I live. Just mind-blowing expensive - something that will definitely hurt if I drop it when travelling and attracts criminals


I meant difficult to buy if you like watches, rather than flexing/investments. Yes, it is actually one of the most available watches there is if you have $35,000. That's some premium to save a couple of mm...


----------



## ts298

I'm excited to see if there'll be new series 9 releases, but I noticed the case is almost a 1-for-1 copy of the Aqua Terra. Don't know if this has been pointed out before.


----------



## covfefewithsugar

ts298 said:


> I'm excited to see if there'll be new series 9 releases, but I noticed the case is almost a 1-for-1 copy of the Aqua Terra. Don't know if this has been pointed out before.


I don't see it.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

ts298 said:


> I'm excited to see if there'll be new series 9 releases, but I noticed the case is almost a 1-for-1 copy of the Aqua Terra. Don't know if this has been pointed out before.


I'm looking out for more Series 9 as well. But what's the copy in it?

Aqua Terra

41mm wide
20mm lug width
47.7mm lug to lug
all angled polished bezel
polished center links
6 o'clock date
chapter ring with numerals
lyre lugs
Series 9

40mm wide
22mm lug width
47 mm lug to lug
flat hairline brushed bezel with outer polished angle
brushed links
3 o'clock date
chapter ring with lines
angled lugs
Case shape is generally similar but so are other Grand Seikos and others on the market.


----------



## ts298

I think the silhouette/shape are very similar, close to identical, but of course there are differences in the surface contours and polishing. In any case, both are beautiful. I would love to get a series 9 model with a relatively subtle dial compared with the Lake Suga/White Birch.


----------



## SISL

Does the series 9 have lume? Because it looks like it doesn't to me and that makes one massive difference with the Omega.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

jdelage said:


> Does the series 9 have lume? Because it looks like it doesn't to me and that makes one massive difference with the Omega.


No lume on Series 9. Forgot that one.


----------



## One-Seventy

ts298 said:


> I think the silhouette/shape are very similar, close to identical, but of course there are differences in the surface contours and polishing. In any case, both are beautiful. I would love to get a series 9 model with a relatively subtle dial compared with the Lake Suga/White Birch.


Yep. To be fair, both do look a lot like watches, maybe that's enough .


----------



## Watchyouloved

One-Seventy said:


> Yep. To be fair, both do look a lot like watches, maybe that's enough .


😂😂😂 yeah maybe if Grand Seiko made a Seiko Alpinist type watch then it would be a proper explorer/aquaterra competitor but I don’t really see that. It seems Seiko Luxe has the sporty watches that seem to fit in every niche and across a broad price range while grand seiko mostly sticks to just making dress watches ranging from more casual to most formal environments


----------



## MstrDabbles

Not regretting my decision one bit. 7.5 inch wrist.


























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## One-Seventy

MstrDabbles said:


> Not regretting my decision one bit.


Lovely. Will _never _be enough for some people, but lovely. And little else on the market like it.


----------



## MstrDabbles

More “pro” shot.








The green is amazing and for a sport watch, the sparkle of the indexes is just mesmerizing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## covfefewithsugar

I have to say, the renders didn't do anything for me. After seeing a real picture, that yellow hue is really something else. Very nice.


----------



## GSNewbie

ts298 said:


> I think the silhouette/shape are very similar, close to identical, but of course there are differences in the surface contours and polishing. In any case, both are beautiful. I would love to get a series 9 model with a relatively subtle dial compared with the Lake Suga/White Birch.


Yes, both watches are very beautiful.
At least at first glance. The AT does not even begin to reach the optical quality level of the WB. After longer observation of the two watches, it is not only noticeable that the workmanship of the surface is more elaborate and precise.
The individual elements, such as the hands, date window and dial of the AT are also not on the same level as the WB, at least under magnifying glass 10x.
The AT, which I also own by the way, is indeed equipped with lume, an advantage at night.
Both calibers run suboptimally, at least in my experience. However, the WB was a bit further from my expectations.
With the AT, it is easier to change bands.
There are much better offers here than with the WB - 0.
Last but not least, the price, the AT really seems to be a bargain. At least if you disregard that the WB is equipped with a Hi-Beat caliber that comes up with 100 hours of power reserve.
Summary of my assessment of the two watches, which are visually similar:
Workmanship: 1:0 WB-AT
Innovation: 2:0 WB-AT
Equipment: 2:1 WB-AT(Lume, Straps)
Price: 2:2 WB-AT
So in the end, according to my comparison, it's a draw. Price-wise, you can expect a bit of a discount on both watches.

If you then want to take a third watch into account, which would be visually and technically directly comparable (Rolex Datejust41), then according to my current experience, the Rolex would make the race.
But only because here the movement keeps what the manufacturer promises.
In addition, this model, at least in the current time, does not lose value. Also not insignificant in times of inflation.


----------



## deepsea03

MstrDabbles said:


> More “pro” shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The green is amazing and for a sport watch, the sparkle of the indexes is just mesmerizing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Astounding, thanks for sharing.


----------



## BarracksSi

covfefewithsugar said:


> I have to say, the renders didn't do anything for me. After seeing a real picture, that yellow hue is really something else. Very nice.


All of Seiko’s product renders are terribly unrepresentative of how they look in real life. I wonder if they do it on purpose. 

When I went to an AD to take a look, I expected the internet hype to be just that — mere hype. So I kept my expectations low to compensate. But holy moly, they ALL looked great, far better than I expected. That’s the basis for my theory: dampen expectations by using poor quality images so that the in-person experience has more “punch”.


----------



## CooperZ

BarracksSi said:


> All of Seiko’s product renders are terribly unrepresentative of how they look in real life. I wonder if they do it on purpose.
> 
> When I went to an AD to take a look, I expected the internet hype to be just that — mere hype. So I kept my expectations low to compensate. But holy moly, they ALL looked great, far better than I expected. That’s the basis for my theory: dampen expectations by using poor quality images so that the in-person experience has more “punch”.


I think it's the amount of polishing the GS uses. Polished surfaces are notoriously hard to photograph let alone render. 

This also extends to other brands as well, some of Omegas ATs look horrible on their website, but look a lot nicer in person.


----------



## Robotaz

Chrono Brewer said:


> I'm looking out for more Series 9 as well. But what's the copy in it?
> 
> Aqua Terra
> 
> 41mm wide
> 20mm lug width
> 47.7mm lug to lug
> all angled polished bezel
> polished center links
> 6 o'clock date
> chapter ring with numerals
> lyre lugs
> Series 9
> 
> 40mm wide
> 22mm lug width
> 47 mm lug to lug
> flat hairline brushed bezel with outer polished angle
> brushed links
> 3 o'clock date
> chapter ring with lines
> angled lugs
> Case shape is generally similar but so are other Grand Seikos and others on the market.
> 
> View attachment 16192315
> View attachment 16192298


I’m normally not a stickler on messages conveyed on my watch dials, but I’d really rather not see a power reserve technical specification spelled out on the dial. That just doesn’t seem like GS to do that. I wonder if it’s a prototype.


----------



## percysmith

One-Seventy said:


> It is quite thick, but a cursory review of the compo shows that unfortunately the size sort of comes with the territory. Unless you're ok with a more pedestrian movement, sporty automatic GMTs are generally in the GS's ballpark:
> 
> Tudor Black Bay GMT 14.7mm
> Norqain Neverest or Freedom GMT 14.5mm
> Omega AT Worldtimer 14.1mm
> Oris ProPilot GMT 14.5mm (manual-wind)
> Mido Ocean Star GMT 13.5mm is about the thinnest I can find that has travel-GMT functionality and more than 42hr of PR.
> 
> If you want under 13mm, you have to have something with the 2893-family movement, which is "office" only and has a unexceptional power reserve. TAG-Heuer, Breitling, Zodiac, Glycine ,CW, all much thinner.
> 
> There's always an exception, and that tests this "rule" is the Rolex GMT - you know how easy they are to get .


I got a bit excited about the Tudor Only Watch GMT after seeing Uptick's preview, but I read the specs on Monochrome and...14.6mm height urgh News - Tudor Black Bay GMT One Master Chronometer Only Watch 2021


----------



## Watchyouloved

Anyone know of any benefits of listing all of your watches on your GS9 account profile? Or is it just for personal record?


----------



## ndrs63

MickCollins1916 said:


> Yes, I’m aware of the one with the rotating bezel…which isn’t for me. To each their own, lovely watch tho.
> 
> My SBGJ201, SBGN005, and SBGE257 GMTs are superb, from my perspective. Huge fan of them.
> 
> Little o/t, but FWIW, I’ve had (and have) a fair number of vintage and modern offerings from the crown. The only facet of modern R I like better than GS is in the bracelet area.
> 
> I like the bracelets on my GS just fine, but glidelock like on my SD43 is next level. I’m more focused on GS these days, in spite of minor things on my wish list I might change.
> I like their focus on offering more of the things customers want, the fact they actually have watches to sell, etc. Huge GS fan!


With you 100%!! If only they could step up their bracelets 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ndrs63

Chrono Brewer said:


> I'm looking out for more Series 9 as well. But what's the copy in it?
> 
> Aqua Terra
> 
> 41mm wide
> 20mm lug width
> 47.7mm lug to lug
> all angled polished bezel
> polished center links
> 6 o'clock date
> chapter ring with numerals
> lyre lugs
> Series 9
> 
> 40mm wide
> 22mm lug width
> 47 mm lug to lug
> flat hairline brushed bezel with outer polished angle
> brushed links
> 3 o'clock date
> chapter ring with lines
> angled lugs
> Case shape is generally similar but so are other Grand Seikos and others on the market.
> 
> View attachment 16192315
> View attachment 16192298


Not even close


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Phass

Double post


----------



## Phass

MstrDabbles said:


> Not regretting my decision one bit. 7.5 inch wrist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


this sbgm 247 looks fantastic , have you seen the sbgm 245 in metal ?? I am interested to buy between two of them , are you pay it full price ?? How many percent discount they give you thanks


----------



## MstrDabbles

Phass said:


> this sbgm 247 looks fantastic , have you seen the sbgm 245 in metal ?? I am interested to buy between two of them , are you pay it full price ?? How many percent discount they give you thanks


No discount. Watch doesn’t ship till November so that wasn’t an option. Here is 245. The light play on the indexes is just crazy.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GSNewbie

Phass said:


> this sbgm 247 looks fantastic , have you seen the sbgm 245 in metal ?? I am interested to buy between two of them , are you pay it full price ?? How many percent discount they give you thanks


Honestly, I don't understand the questions about discounts. What would it have brought you if he had now written that he had received 30%?!
By analogy, of course, you can't say that just because he didn't get a discount, you won't get one either.
Just ask the dealer in a friendly way.


----------



## One-Seventy

GSNewbie said:


> Honestly, I don't understand the questions about discounts. What would it have brought you if he had now written that he had received 30%?!
> By analogy, of course, you can't say that just because he didn't get a discount, you won't get one either.
> Just ask the dealer in a friendly way.


Discounts are the most important thing because they limit downside risk on asset disposal. Everything else is secondary these days. 

"This product won't act as a store of value like a Rolex. What's the best discount I can get on this asset?"


----------



## GSNewbie

Funny. 
Of course, everyone tries to get the maximum for their money.
The starting position, as well as the negotiated price is individual. This does not change even the perpetual demand.
The fact that Rolex is currently so stable in price is probably more due to the fact that you no longer receive interest at the bank and the broad masses with corresponding amounts of money in the account, looking for objects that promise a higher return. 
Too bad if this bubble should burst.
Think of the 90s, how was it still the same with the value stability of Rolex?


----------



## Watchyouloved

GSNewbie said:


> Funny.
> Of course, everyone tries to get the maximum for their money.
> The starting position, as well as the negotiated price is individual. This does not change even the perpetual demand.
> The fact that Rolex is currently so stable in price is probably more due to the fact that you no longer receive interest at the bank and the broad masses with corresponding amounts of money in the account, looking for objects that promise a higher return.
> Too bad if this bubble should burst.
> Think of the 90s, how was it still the same with the value stability of Rolex?


Rolex is the apple of the watch world. It won’t go down. It’s here to stay at that position, it’s the most widely known watch brand period.


----------



## cyvr

Did anyone tune into the GrandSeikoUSA Instagram live video? Looking for coles notes

Sent from my SM-A515W using Tapatalk


----------



## watchcrank_tx

GSNewbie said:


> Honestly, I don't understand the questions about discounts. What would it have brought you if he had now written that he had received 30%?!
> By analogy, of course, you can't say that just because he didn't get a discount, you won't get one either.
> Just ask the dealer in a friendly way.


I guess I don't understand not understanding the question. Perhaps, for instance, the person asking the question can only afford the watch if the street price has a certain discount but not afford if the discount is less (or with sadly more GS ADs with more and more models, none at all). What would not be understandable in that instance?

I tend to answer questions about a discount with a choice: I can provide the name of an AD and a salesperson who will deal fairly and generously with you as they did with me, or I can provide the discount percentage I received with which information you are free to shop the open market. Out of respect for the mutually beneficial relationship I have with whichever AD I dealt, I will not provide both.


----------



## GSNewbie

Watchyouloved said:


> Rolex is the apple of the watch world. It won’t go down. It’s here to stay at that position, it’s the most widely known watch brand period.


Well, Apple and Rolex are two completely different companies. But that is well known.
Certainly, both are very well-known brands. But with Rolex, you can do without it without losing any of the benefits.


----------



## GSNewbie

watchcrank_tx said:


> I guess I don't understand not understanding the question. Perhaps, for instance, the person asking the question can only afford the watch if the street price has a certain discount but not afford if the discount is less (or with sadly more GS ADs with more and more models, none at all). What would not be understandable in that instance?
> 
> I tend to answer questions about a discount with a choice: I can provide the name of an AD and a salesperson who will deal fairly and generously with you as they did with me, or I can provide the discount percentage I received with which information you are free to shop the open market. Out of respect for the mutually beneficial relationship I have with whichever AD I dealt, I will not provide both.


So double negation is actually affirmation.😉
You can say that discounts are individual and as far as online offers are concerned, I think that in a few minutes everyone should be able to find them worldwide. 
If there are still technical questions regarding import, customs, taxes, etc., a forum is certainly a good choice as a first point of contact.
Even if I would write, my dealer gives me 25%, what does it bring everyone else?! 
The business relationship has existed for years and is built on trust. The dealer knows that my watches are not going to end up on a marketplace somewhere to make a few dollars quickly.


----------



## Watchyouloved

GSNewbie said:


> Well, Apple and Rolex are two completely different companies. But that is well known.
> Certainly, both are very well-known brands. But with Rolex, you can do without it without losing any of the benefits.


Yeah I guess the point I was trying to give was that Rolex isn’t a watch company, it’s a marketing company 😅 they created this “it” factor and desire into their product where everyone needs one or one day has to get one to be assured they got the best or “made it”. It’s the same tactic Apple used and it’s quite successful, I wish for Seiko to be up there soon.


----------



## ts298

Do we have new models being announced this evening?


----------



## BarracksSi

ts298 said:


> Do we have new models being announced this evening?








Original Magic 8 Ball







magic-8ball.com


----------



## ts298

BarracksSi said:


> Original Magic 8 Ball
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> magic-8ball.com


 Haha. I ask because my friend got an AD invite for a GS event tonight that makes it sounds like there will be new releases.


----------



## bibbibart

ts298 said:


> Do we have new models being announced this evening?


Why should we expect any exactly today?


----------



## watchcrank_tx

GSNewbie said:


> So double negation is actually affirmation.😉
> You can say that discounts are individual and as far as online offers are concerned, I think that in a few minutes everyone should be able to find them worldwide.
> If there are still technical questions regarding import, customs, taxes, etc., a forum is certainly a good choice as a first point of contact.
> Even if I would write, my dealer gives me 25%, what does it bring everyone else?!
> The business relationship has existed for years and is built on trust. The dealer knows that my watches are not going to end up on a marketplace somewhere to make a few dollars quickly.


Okay, I see where you are coming from. Still, I think it's useful if people know that a given brand is often discounted or not, and if the discounts are steep or not. If someone knows you got 25% off, they can probably surmise that an AD for that brand will come down to some degree even if not as much as yours. There are brands where a substantial discount is a simple ask, but many buyers don't know to ask so only get 5-10%, or even 0. (Not saying this is the case for GS; I wouldn't know, having only tried to buy one so far, which was a nearly sold-out LE with no discount.)

Edit to add: You did of course advise the poster who asked the question to ask the AD in a friendly way, and that is the best advice in the end.


----------



## MstrDabbles

I.
Am.
Jubilant.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## percysmith

GSNewbie said:


> So double negation is actually affirmation.😉
> You can say that discounts are individual and as far as online offers are concerned, I think that in a few minutes everyone should be able to find them worldwide.
> If there are still technical questions regarding import, customs, taxes, etc., a forum is certainly a good choice as a first point of contact.
> Even if I would write, my dealer gives me 25%, what does it bring everyone else?!
> The business relationship has existed for years and is built on trust. The dealer knows that my watches are not going to end up on a marketplace somewhere to make a few dollars quickly.


Isn’t this like going to Priceline or Travelocity grade of discount travel agent for your air ticket to get best price, perhaps even a non-local agent (grey market analogy), vs a local (preferably brick and mortar but definitely serviced and possibly owned by named individual) travel agent for your air ticket (hopefully, the TA will care about you when the airline screws around with your schedule)?


----------



## GSNewbie

In a nutshell, no.
There is also no analogy to the gray market prices for watches. On reflection, however, this should be clear😉.


----------



## percysmith

GSNewbie said:


> In a nutshell, no.
> There is also no analogy to the gray market prices for watches. On reflection, however, this should be clear😉.


No it's not manifestedly clear. You're just making bare assertions.

I don't see much difference purchasing from Jomashop vs purchasing from Travelocity. I don't have a personal relationship with anyone there, and subject to rights I can enforce thru my credit card company, their after-sales services are non-existent.


----------



## GSNewbie

Well, then I'll try to put it in simpler terms.
When I book flights, travel, accommodation, I accept services. 
Only certain quotas are made available. 
So the first rough difference is service vs. commodity/trade.
Honestly though, it's really not clear to me what you were trying to say with your post from #606?!
Are you now for the local dealer, because more service, or for the online dealer, or gray market dealer, because discounts are more important to you, convinced that the latter offers more favorable?


----------



## percysmith

GSNewbie said:


> So the first rough difference is service vs. commodity/trade.


I am aware of that distinction, but whether I consume the product as a service (air ticket) or as a good over time (watch) is irrelevant. There are after-sales service requirement attached to both products (in an air ticket, I mean cases where an airline changes their schedule or cancels the flight after ticketing/payment, before the scheduled departure date)..



GSNewbie said:


> Honestly though, it's really not clear to me what you were trying to say with your post from #606?!
> Are you now for the local dealer, because more service, or for the online dealer, or gray market dealer, because discounts are more important to you, convinced that the latter offers more favorable?


I'm not 100% for either. In both the cases of an air ticket or a watch, it really depends on i) how complex the product is, and ii) what my requirements at the time are.
(i) if it is an air ticket or watch that I can handle on my own, then I might go for best price
(ii) if it is an air ticket or watch that I need assistance in, _or I would like to build up relationship with a certain dealer (agent)_, then I may pay more.


----------



## GSNewbie

Hello again. 
Legally, there is a big difference between buying a service and buying a product.
Therefore, the difference is not irrelevant, as you write.
You reduce your point of view only to the point of personal claims - which is fine - , but there is much more to consider when discussing discounts.
Service is certainly an aspect, but often it does not even have to be used.
Your mentioned points, according to which you make a decision, whether and from whom, to which conditions you obtain something, are subjective and therefore not to generalize.
I had not said more in my posts before.
But I can understand your argumentation, even if it is very reduced in my opinion.


----------



## bibbibart

Maybe to change the subject or actually to RETURN to the subject of this thread - anyone heard of new GSs coming our way before the year end?


----------



## Lugan

ts298 said:


> Haha. I ask because my friend got an AD invite for a GS event tonight that makes it sounds like there will be new releases.


Any news from this event?


----------



## cordi7




----------



## MickCollins1916

The SBGM247 on the right was spoken for, but I just saw it in the metal. Quick comparison shot of it and the SBGE257 for those of us interested in it. 

Cool watch, loved it in the metal, definitely next on my list.


----------



## One-Seventy

MickCollins1916 said:


> The SBGM247 on the right was spoken for, but I just saw it in the metal. Quick comparison shot of it and the SBGE257 for those of us interested in it.
> 
> Cool watch, loved it in the metal, definitely next on my list.


Gosh, that one's lovely. Not seen a dial colour like that before - sandier than other "olive" dials.


----------



## ts298

Lugan said:


> Any news from this event?


From what I understand, there may have been a new release. I don’t know the details and would rather not do anything that gets in trouble with GS. Sorry for being a tease but hopefully we will get an idea tomorrow or soon (with the NYC event coming tomorrow).


----------



## MickCollins1916

One-Seventy said:


> Gosh, that one's lovely. Not seen a dial colour like that before - sandier than other "olive" dials.


Yes, indeed, I’m pretty much wild about it, along with the 257.

If I had to name the color of my 257 dial, it would be forest green or something along those lines, while the new 247 would be more of a hunter green, if that makes sense.


----------



## covfefewithsugar

One of the rare instances in which the green clearly outshines the blue (to me, anyway), and 200m WR is a nice bonus. Really great new model.


----------



## MstrDabbles

I’ll be there at the GS9 event tomorrow. If anyone wants to chat it up. 
Just look for Ricardo. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

@ NYC Colleagues - looking forward today to any info from you on any new GS releases potentially announced @ today GS9Club mtng. 

And some great photos of SLGA007, SBGW273-277 and alike.


----------



## Cowboy Bebop

bibbibart said:


> @ NYC Colleagues - looking forward today to any info from you on any new GS releases potentially announced @ today GS9Club mtng.
> 
> And some great photos of SLGA007, SBGW273-277 and alike.


I'm with him report any updates for us 

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Locutusaborg

Lots of pics please. Disappointed I’m not there!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MstrDabbles

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## One-Seventy

I do like that olive green. However, I hope it remains an offbeat choice for most, in case the The Scum move in, buy everything up, and then sit on it with the price at 2x.


----------



## MstrDabbles

Tried it on leather. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

What strap is this? Thx.


----------



## MstrDabbles

bibbibart said:


> What strap is this? Thx.











Honey Horween Deployant Watch Band | B & R Bands






www.bandrbands.com






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Watchyouloved

As much as I love the aesthetic, the SBGM247 is 14.4mm thick, I really have to applaud Rolex here for making a GMT at only 12mm !! That is really astounding. It’s a full mm thinner than the submariner (I’m guessing because the WR isn’t as high) and even their chronograph the Daytona is 12mm. The submariner is about average thickness but the other models really make you appreciate them. I wish GS would follow this trend with their movement sizes/case thickness.


----------



## Watchyouloved

Though I will admit their sister brand Tudor has an extremely thick GMT at 15mm and their chrono is 14.4mm


----------



## One-Seventy

Watchyouloved said:


> As much as I love the aesthetic, the SBGM247 is 14.4mm thick, I really have to applaud Rolex here for making a GMT at only 12mm !! That is really astounding. It’s a full mm thinner than the submariner (I’m guessing because the WR isn’t as high) and even their chronograph the Daytona is 12mm. The submariner is about average thickness but the other models really make you appreciate them. I wish GS would follow this trend with their movement sizes/case thickness.


If you're willing to split hairs the Explorer II is 12.5mm, but yes it's competitively thin. It's about as thin as it gets as several recent threads on this forum have pointed out.

One of the reasons for this is that Rolex puts the 12h hand at the bottom of the stack, allowing the hour hand to sweep _within _the hour markers and keep the height of the overall hand stack low. GS's tendency towards generous dial markers and a 24h hand, at the bottom of the stack, that has to be tall enough to clear the top of them, adds some of the additional 1.9mm between the two. The rest is due to the slightly thicker crystal and caseback, all else being equal. You pays your money, and in this case, you pays about fourteen thousand dollars before tax!


----------



## Watchyouloved

One-Seventy said:


> If you're willing to split hairs the Explorer II is 12.5mm, but yes it's competitively thin. It's about as thin as it gets as several recent threads on this forum have pointed out.
> 
> One of the reasons for this is that Rolex puts the 12h hand at the bottom of the stack, allowing the hour hand to sweep _within _the hour markers and keep the height of the overall hand stack low. GS's tendency towards generous dial markers and a 24h hand, at the bottom of the stack, that has to be tall enough to clear the top of them, adds some of the additional 1.9mm between the two. The rest is due to the slightly thicker crystal and caseback, all else being equal. You pays your money, and in this case, you pays about fourteen thousand dollars before tax!


Eh a GMT master 2 is $10k which in the luxury space is average asking price. The GS is $5.7k which is a little more than half but if GS made the watch thinner and asked a little more I’d be ok with that. 

The desirability of Rolex and Omega is that certain watches are legendary and iconic. GS doesn’t have a single sport model which has that kind of unobtainium. The speedmaster is the chronograph to have just as the Gmt master 2 which was made so famous by panam airline pilots and the submariner etc. 

Grand seiko needs to name their watches real names and not random numerals and letters and give the models a purpose in life lol 

Seiko has it with their pro divers!


----------



## MstrDabbles

Watchyouloved said:


> Eh a GMT master 2 is $10k which in the luxury space is average asking price. The GS is $5.7k which is a little more than half but if GS made the watch thinner and asked a little more I’d be ok with that.
> 
> The desirability of Rolex and Omega is that certain watches are legendary and iconic. GS doesn’t have a single sport model which has that kind of unobtainium. The speedmaster is the chronograph to have just as the Gmt master 2 which was made so famous by panam airline pilots and the submariner etc.
> 
> Grand seiko needs to name their watches real names and not random numerals and letters and give the models a purpose in life lol
> 
> Seiko has it with their pro divers!


Kinda glad they don’t have an unobtanium because then I’d have to fight against people buying one just to sell it at a premium.
It’s gotten to the point now where it seems like more than half of the people buying a Rolex are just waiting to sell it. Nothing in the store, 1000’s on the secondary market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Watchyouloved

MstrDabbles said:


> Kinda glad they don’t have an unobtanium because then I’d have to fight against people buying one just to sell it at a premium.
> It’s gotten to the point now where it seems like more than half of the people buying a Rolex are just waiting to sell it. Nothing in the store, 1000’s on the secondary market.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh yeah I hate that! The way Rolex was a few years ago was perfect though because the desirability was there but so was the product. Omega is perfect right now. Can easily walk in and get a speedmaster and it’s still a must have for the collection. I love that. Grand Seiko has a bunch of limited editions but their sport models have no identity!


----------



## One-Seventy

Watchyouloved said:


> Eh a GMT master 2 is $10k which in the luxury space is average asking price. The GS is $5.7k which is a little more than half but if GS made the watch thinner and asked a little more I’d be ok with that.
> 
> The desirability of Rolex and Omega is that certain watches are legendary and iconic. GS doesn’t have a single sport model which has that kind of unobtainium. The speedmaster is the chronograph to have just as the Gmt master 2 which was made so famous by panam airline pilots and the submariner etc.
> 
> Grand seiko needs to name their watches real names and not random numerals and letters and give the models a purpose in life lol


I'm talking real world. The entry price for the Explorer II is about $14,000. You have to want that 1.9mm back pretty hard. As I explained, you can have a thinner GS GMT if they reorder the hand stack, and specify less WR. The former no-one will notice, the latter, they'll all bellyache about.

Also not every brand needs a shouty social media star, iconic, etc. Personally I like the fact that Grand Seiko doesn't have a "cliché" model that people only buy because other people buy. The "snowflake" SD came close, but has a very specific appeal because of its movement. I certainly agree that the alphanumeric jumble is a bit of a turn-off and the naming seems half-hearted - names like "Elegance", "Passion for Sport" inconsistent, more or less meaningless and not promoted. But then, not all brands need to be like RolOmegexa💤.


----------



## Joe90

New SD divers…










INTRODUCING: The Grand Seiko SBGA461 and SBGA463


The Grand Seiko SBGA461 and SBGA463 have refined the subtly refined design elements that have a major impact.




timeandtidewatches.com






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Xaltotun

Watchyouloved said:


> Eh a GMT master 2 is $10k which in the luxury space is average asking price. The GS is $5.7k which is a little more than half but if GS made the watch thinner and asked a little more I’d be ok with that.
> 
> The desirability of Rolex and Omega is that certain watches are legendary and iconic. GS doesn’t have a single sport model which has that kind of unobtainium. The speedmaster is the chronograph to have just as the Gmt master 2 which was made so famous by panam airline pilots and the submariner etc.
> 
> Grand seiko needs to name their watches real names and not random numerals and letters and give the models a purpose in life lol
> 
> Seiko has it with their pro divers!


Agree with the arguments here, but also to note, Omega's most desirable models are getting thicker and thicker with each iteration... (I have owned more than a dozen Omega throughout the years, but I've lost interest precisely because of this).


----------



## MickCollins1916

Watchyouloved said:


> Eh a GMT master 2 is $10k which in the luxury space is average asking price. The GS is $5.7k which is a little more than half but if GS made the watch thinner and asked a little more I’d be ok with that.
> 
> The desirability of Rolex and Omega is that certain watches are legendary and iconic. GS doesn’t have a single sport model which has that kind of unobtainium. The speedmaster is the chronograph to have just as the Gmt master 2 which was made so famous by panam airline pilots and the submariner etc.
> 
> Grand seiko needs to name their watches real names and not random numerals and letters and give the models a purpose in life lol
> 
> Seiko has it with their pro divers!


I’m totally with you on the relative thickness of the GS GMT - I have the SBGE257, which is 14.7mm thick, but tried on and loved the SBGM247, which is 14.4mm thick, and plan to pick it up. 

To GS’ credit, their watch cases are engineered in such a manner that they hide the overall thickness pretty well. 

I can definitely live with the dimensions of these GMTs, and the fact there’s only lume on the cardinal markers and hands, tho that is another small annoyance to me. 

Totally with you on the model names…they are confusing, and I could do with a change there!

I own (and have owned) a number of Rolex, including a bunch of since-departed modern and vintage GMTs and a 16700 GMT I still have. The 16700 is svelte on the wrist for sure, but I like my GS models better these days and wear them far more often. 

I have the Tudor BB GMT, which is also a thick beast, and a great value for the price in terms of functionality (bi-directional rotating bezel, great lume, superb accuracy, 200m WR), but it wears like a tank overall. 

The GS GMTs represent great value and are far more under-the-radar, which I generally prefer. To each their own.


----------



## MickCollins1916

Joe90 said:


> New SD divers…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> INTRODUCING: The Grand Seiko SBGA461 and SBGA463
> 
> 
> The Grand Seiko SBGA461 and SBGA463 have refined the subtly refined design elements that have a major impact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> timeandtidewatches.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am glad some SD divers remain in the fold, but my overall reaction was meh. Minor changes, like adding lume at 3, bezel font/spacing, don’t excite me much. 

If they had shrunk the titanium one to somewhere in 40-42mm range, I’d have been all over it.


----------



## Joe90

MickCollins1916 said:


> I am glad some SD divers remain in the fold, but my overall reaction was meh. Minor changes, like adding lume at 3, bezel font/spacing, don’t excite me much.
> 
> If they had shrunk the titanium one to somewhere in 40-42mm range, I’d have been all over it.


I’m also disappointed that they’re not using the latest movements.
I was hoping the new movement might reduce the thickness, not that 14mm is that thick but nevertheless a lost opportunity?

Unless of course there are more SD divers on their way (unlikely).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lugan

Joe90 said:


> I’m also disappointed that they’re not using the latest movements.


It's getting stranger every time they release new SD watches with the old movement. They made a big fuss about the new SD movement, highlighting that it will enable thinner watches (and then released a huge thick diver as the first one with that movement) and now several other new releases with the old movement. I can only guess that there is some market dynamic, maybe centered on Japanese customers, that makes them do all of this. Or maybe something is wrong with the movement. Keeps my wallet glued inside my pocket.


----------



## acebruin

Lugan said:


> It's getting stranger every time they release new SD watches with the old movement. They made a big fuss about the new SD movement, highlighting that it will enable thinner watches (and then released a huge thick diver as the first one with that movement) and now several other new releases with the old movement. I can only guess that there is some market dynamic, maybe centered on Japanese customers, that makes them do all of this. Or maybe something is wrong with the movement. Keeps my wallet glued inside my pocket.


$$$... newer movements cost more... i mean look at slga007, slgh005, slgh003, etc... they're all 9k+ usd with taxes... different target market...


----------



## brianinCA

Overwound said:


> SBGN025 is a new limited edition 9F GMT coming out in November.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrist shot (found online).


Looks like the Isetan Shinjuku LE SBGN025 model has been released. A few more customer photos have popped up on instagram under #sbgn025


----------



## kritameth

brianinCA said:


> Looks like the Isetan Shinjuku LE SBGN025 model has been released. A few more customer photos have popped up on instagram under #sbgn025
> 
> View attachment 16254899
> View attachment 16254901
> View attachment 16254902
> View attachment 16254903
> View attachment 16254904


Very cool!


----------



## up1911fan

brianinCA said:


> Looks like the Isetan Shinjuku LE SBGN025 model has been released. A few more customer photos have popped up on instagram under #sbgn025
> 
> View attachment 16254899
> View attachment 16254901
> View attachment 16254902
> View attachment 16254903
> View attachment 16254904


Man, I Really wish I could get one of those!


----------



## brianinCA

up1911fan said:


> Man, I Really wish I could get one of those!


There is one listed on chrono24 at a 40% premium over retail.





Seiko Watches | Chrono24.com


Seiko watches in stock now. New offers daily. Save favorite watches & buy your dream watch on Chrono24.com.




www.chrono24.com


----------



## bibbibart

brianinCA said:


> There is one listed on chrono24 at a 40% premium over retail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seiko Watches | Chrono24.com
> 
> 
> Seiko watches in stock now. New offers daily. Save favorite watches & buy your dream watch on Chrono24.com.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.chrono24.com


Well, actually over 80% over retail (retail was, ‘cause it’s unavailable) approx. $3.400.


----------



## brianinCA

bibbibart said:


> Well, actually over 80% over retail (retail was, ‘cause it’s unavailable) approx. $3.400.


I thought retail was approx $4,800 for the SBGN025. Where did you see $3,400?


----------



## bibbibart

brianinCA said:


> I thought retail was approx $4,800 for the SBGN025. Where did you see $3,400?


There you are:






404 Page Not Found | グランドセイコー公式サイト


日本の美意識をもって、腕時計の本質を果てしなく追求するGrand Seiko。最新コレクション、限定製品をはじめ、グランドセイコーのTAKUMIや歴史をご紹介します。




www.grand-seiko.com





If I see correctly 396.000 yen translates into sth like 3.400$. This, after all, is the SBGN quartz, nothing mega hype.


----------



## duckmcf

Hi Gang,

I just saw this (SBGJ253) on the Aussie GS site. Is it new, or am I late to the party?









Cheers,
Noel


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> SBGJ253


Colourway of the SBGJ203?


----------



## bibbibart

It is like 3-days old. It is practically mega similar to SBGN023. 600-pcs LE for Asia/Oceania. 

Some better quality photos below.


----------



## deepsea03

Re: the new GMT's above.....can anyone say why, on the bi-color rehaut, the lower gold colored section does not go all the way to the middle of the 6 on the right or the 18 on the left?


----------



## cordi7

deepsea03 said:


> Re: the new GMT's above.....can anyone say why, on the bi-color rehaut, the lower gold colored section does not go all the way to the middle of the 6 on the right or the 18 on the left?


That's how all of their GMTs are from what I recall:


----------



## deepsea03

cordi7 said:


> That's how all of their GMTs are from what I recall:


Yep, Ive noticed it on GS GMTs, I just want to know why.
Not a deal breaker (I have the new green dial ordered) but it's driving me crazy not knowing the thought behind it.


----------



## BarracksSi

deepsea03 said:


> Yep, Ive noticed it on GS GMTs, I just want to know why.
> Not a deal breaker (I have the new green dial ordered) but it's driving me crazy not knowing the thought behind it.


Because it looks worse with a split-color “6” and “18”


----------



## Dixan

deepsea03 said:


> Yep, Ive noticed it on GS GMTs, I just want to know why.
> Not a deal breaker (I have the new green dial ordered) but it's driving me crazy not knowing the thought behind it.


It used to drive me crazy. I loved that my SBGJ201 didn’t have a bi-colored rehaut. The SBGEs 255 and 257 I had did have them, and I have to say, they didn’t bother me as much IRL. My guess is, with watches like the Rolex Pepsi and Batman, et al., there is a white/silver numeral at that interface, which would make splitting the surrounding area of the rehaut or bezel insert, easier. With these GSes, they just sort of “yin/yang” them, meaning the color of the numerals on one half is the background color on the other half. There is no third color for the numerals. So you’d have to make the numerals, themselves, at 3 and 9 o’clock bi-colored, which would be awkward. So they broke up the colors this way. Imo, it’s an inelegant solution, even if it works fine. Maybe they’re also suggesting the days are often shorter than the nights, during times of the year, anyway? ;-)


----------



## Domo

bibbibart said:


> It is like 3-days old. It is practically mega similar to SBGN023. 600-pcs LE for Asia/Oceania.
> 
> Some better quality photos below.


Ooo me likey. Good find


----------



## Phass

which one you prefer sbgm 245 or sbgm 247 ??? I can't see in metal because I can't go to the city because pandemic covid !?!


----------



## Overwound

brianinCA said:


> Looks like the Isetan Shinjuku LE SBGN025 model has been released. A few more customer photos have popped up on instagram under #sbgn025
> 
> View attachment 16254899
> View attachment 16254901
> View attachment 16254902
> View attachment 16254903
> View attachment 16254904


Looking great. Nice finds Brian!


----------



## vsh

BarracksSi said:


> Because it looks worse with a split-color “6” and “18”


I like it better split, like they've done in the past:


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> Hi Gang,
> 
> I just saw this (SBGJ253) on the Aussie GS site. Is it new, or am I late to the party?
> 
> View attachment 16260813
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel


I saw one in my Seiko boutique in Hong Kong. Zaratsu polished sides (see below) and I wish the dial was darker, I’ll pass.


----------



## percysmith

percysmith said:


> Wouldn’t an office GMT suit you better? Plenty more 2893-2 based choices when all you need is an office GMT. Also easier to set overseas time.
> 
> True GMT is for travel? So I envisage two time zones only. Not they I’d put a GS with all that Zaratsu polishing in my travel bag


Also considered a Seiko Sharp GMT today.

Functionally it does all I need it to do as travel watch - True GMT, not occupy a power slot. Bezel not required. See through case back helps. Hardened polished steel sides.

Not too heavy on wrist. Bit tall but I can live with it. At a price point that I won’t hurt too much if I lose it. I hope I get a good 6R64 (my SARB033 6R15 flummoxed my watchmaker and we had put in a new movement).



















But I can’t live with the hemp dials. I’ll wait:


----------



## SISL

I love the GMT complication, but the GS implementation is really tall. It's like they're so worried to make the watches too wide for small wrist, they make them tall instead.


----------



## SISL

Not sure those have been posted here. They're 2 "micro editions" for the Paris Place Vendome boutique - 20 10 units in each metal (platinum & gold). Note the 8-pointed star at the 6 o'clock position to mark the precious metals used for the hands & hour markers. The platinum version is SBGK011, per the boutique's IG account:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CXYtG4iIlDT/


----------



## bibbibart

jdelage said:


> Not sure those have been posted here. They're 2 "micro editions" for the Paris Place Vendome boutique - 20 units in each metal (I think platinum & gold?).


10 pieces each, I think. Beautiful pieces. Probably still available, with the white gold one () costing approx. €38k.


----------



## LoProfile

jdelage said:


> Not sure those have been posted here. They're 2 "micro editions" for the Paris Place Vendome boutique - 20 10 units in each metal (platinum & gold). Note the 8-pointed star at the 6 o'clock position to mark the precious metals used for the hands & hour markers. The platinum version is SBGK011, per the boutique's IG account:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CXYtG4iIlDT/


Thanks for sharing. Those are super dope! I'm waiting for the yellow gold version !


----------



## Cward85

Hoping a new limited edition like the SBGA391 comes out with a nice dial now that the SBGA461/463 are out!


----------



## Watchyouloved

I saw Hodinkee recently posted an article on the 62gs…maybe that’s hinting at Grand Seiko planning on doing an anniversary recreation model?


----------



## Tpp3975

SBGM245 arrived today. Plastic still on it. Explorer Killer!


----------



## Xhantos

This should have been posted here also 









**NEW and UPCOMING Seiko watches**


That's right. Before I knew what I was doing I bent a few pins trying to brute force them out, then I found the arrow engraved onto the links lmao! I always follow the arrow for both removing and inserting. Never an issue anymore. Acutally I've stopped wearing Prospex bracelets altogether...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## Loevhagen

SBGH295...


----------



## CarbonPrevails

That looks really nice. 



Loevhagen said:


> SBGH295...
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16346171


----------



## SISL

SBGH295 and SBGA471 product pages are up:








SBGH295G | Grand Seiko


Inspired by Autumn’s First Frost. <br /> USA Special Edition




www.grand-seiko.com












SBGA471G | Grand Seiko


Inspired by Autumn’s First Frost. <br /> USA Special Edition




www.grand-seiko.com


----------



## SISL

I think the SBGH295 will sell very well. Not sure about the SBGA471, as its dial is a bit bland IMHO.


----------



## ts298

SBGH295 @ 6900 is $600 more than the other High Beats in the same collection. GS is getting expensive...


----------



## JimmyBoots

Loevhagen said:


> SBGH295...
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16346171


In steel with a MSRP of $6,900 USD it’s lovely. Prices are slowly creeping up every year. 

*Edit - some additional photos from IG 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tpp3975

JimmyBoots said:


> In steel with a MSRP of $6,900 USD it’s lovely. Prices are slowly creeping up every year.
> 
> *Edit - some additional photos from IG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can someone shed light on what the us edition means? Are these limited editions? Will people be flipping these for a profit? I love the 471 but just blew my wad on a different watch. Will these be available for around MSRP or will the flipping game commence. I’d prefer to wait but if I have to jump i will. I can’t keep up with GS and the flippers. I see some selling for way over retail. The ones I buy flop in value. Thanks.


----------



## dakotajames

Like everyone else, just saw this today. The SBGH295 has my attention. I have the Omiwatari which could be a sister to it but this SBGH295 feels more sporty. I just wish they would increase the water-proofing on these.


----------



## Tpp3975

jdelage said:


> I think the SBGH295 will sell very well. Not sure about the SBGA471, as its dial is a bit bland IMHO.


I prefer the 471 and the clean dial. I also prefer the case style. Looks like it would be a better daily wearer but to each their own. I'm assuming these will be sold out and selling above market soon enough. If I drop 6k on a new GS (5 days after dropping 5k on one), my wife might kill me.


----------



## Ccs127

Tpp3975 said:


> Can someone shed light on what the us edition means? Are these limited editions? Will people be flipping these for a profit? I love the 471 but just blew my wad on a different watch. Will these be available for around MSRP or will the flipping game commence. I’d prefer to wait but if I have to jump i will. I can’t keep up with GS and the flippers. I see some selling for way over retail. The ones I buy flop in value. Thanks.


I'm guessing this means the same as SBGA413 & 415--that they'll be available exclusively in the US but won't be numbered/limited. 

I'm in the same boat, just dropped $10k on the SLGA007 and don't have the funds for another one right away but reaaaaally don't want to miss out on another kira-zuri dial. Been looking at the 387 for ages but can't bring myself to part with $15k for it. I'm hoping the SBGH295 will be readily available in 6-12 months.


----------



## Tpp3975

Ccs127 said:


> I'm guessing this means the same as SBGA413 & 415--that they'll be available exclusively in the US but won't be numbered/limited.
> 
> I'm in the same boat, just dropped $10k on the SLGA007 and don't have the funds for another one right away but reaaaaally don't want to miss out on another kira-zuri dial. Been looking at the 387 for ages but can't bring myself to part with $15k for it. I'm hoping the SBGH295 will be readily available in 6-12 months.


I recall passing on 387s when they were 7500. I can’t play in that field. I guess I’m glad the 471 may attract less attention because I prefer it. I’m tired of all these GS models selling for over msrp. They are pricey enough as it is. Part of me wants to grab one now and just make it my 2022 watch but I think I’ll roll the dice and see what happens. I just took the wrapper off my Sbgm245 which bid more wearable for me these days anyway given I’m not in the office.


----------



## matthew P

interesting that they are including a leather strap and deployent clasp with these new Soko series.


----------



## Tpp3975

Ccs127 said:


> I'm guessing this means the same as SBGA413 & 415--that they'll be available exclusively in the US but won't be numbered/limited.
> 
> I'm in the same boat, just dropped $10k on the SLGA007 and don't have the funds for another one right away but reaaaaally don't want to miss out on another kira-zuri dial. Been looking at the 387 for ages but can't bring myself to part with $15k for it. I'm hoping the SBGH295 will be readily available in 6-12 months.


BTW, this is a kick in the you know what for the 387 owners. Be glad you passed at 15k.


----------



## Ccs127

Tpp3975 said:


> BTW, this is a kick in the you know what for the 387 owners. Be glad you passed at 15k.


For sure. They at least changed a few things (SS over titanium, high-beat over spring drive, 62GS over 44GS), but agree that this is going to have a negative impact on 387's value.


----------



## Tpp3975

Ccs127 said:


> For sure. They at least changed a few things (SS over titanium, high-beat over spring drive, 62GS over 44GS), but agree that this is going to have a negative impact on 387's value.


Unlike regular Seiko, at least they waited several years before doing so. So there's that. No reason to hunt down a 387 anymore. Hence my prediction that these new models will be snatched up by the resellers in no time and placed in the classifieds at hefty premiums.


----------



## One-Seventy

Tpp3975 said:


> Can someone shed light on what the us edition means? Are these limited editions? Will people be flipping these for a profit?


If there's money to be made, it'll be made. Economics and profits drive the luxury watch market. Holorogy? What's that? Something to do with looking sideways at pictures?


----------



## Tanker G1

GS has released a number of light blue dials in the last 3-4 years. Here's the ones I can recall:

SBGA387 LE 558 qty









SBGA435 LE 222 qty (182 actual)









SBGA407









SBGY007









SBGH295









SBGA471










Did I miss any? 

I have a SBGA435 and consider myself lucky to get one. It came with a leather strap and I'm glad to see GS is doing the same on these two new releases. I like the dial of the 295 so I'm sure I'll find some way to justify having 2 light blue GS in the collection. One Spring Drive and one Hi-Beat with different cases sounds reasonable, no?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Not my color but dig the vertical brush of SBGA471.


----------



## SISL

That SBGA435 is dope.


----------



## Tanker G1

Chrono Brewer said:


> Not my color but dig the vertical brush of SBGA471


They're both awesome.


----------



## poofoot

Why is the SBGA471 so much more expensive than the SBGA427 soko SBGA427 | Collections | Grand Seiko 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tanker G1

poofoot said:


> Why is the SBGA471 so much more expensive than the SBGA427 soko SBGA427 | Collections | Grand Seiko


The 44GS case in one element. GS raising prices due to a number of factors is another.


----------



## poofoot

Tanker G1 said:


> The 44GS case in one element. GS raising prices due to a number of factors is another.


Ah okay. I didn’t release the case demanded a big premium (also it’s not my favorite)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## snash7

Tanker G1 said:


> GS has released a number of light blue dials in the last 3-4 years. Here's the ones I can recall:
> 
> SBGA387 LE 558 qty
> View attachment 16347156
> 
> 
> SBGA435 LE 222 qty (182 actual)
> View attachment 16347162
> 
> 
> SBGA407
> View attachment 16347179
> 
> 
> SBGY007
> View attachment 16347190
> 
> 
> SBGH295
> View attachment 16347192
> 
> 
> SBGA471
> View attachment 16347202
> 
> 
> 
> Did I miss any?
> 
> I have a SBGA435 and consider myself lucky to get one. It came with a leather strap and I'm glad to see GS is doing the same on these two new releases. I like the dial of the 295 so I'm sure I'll find some way to justify having 2 light blue GS in the collection. One Spring Drive and one Hi-Beat with different cases sounds reasonable, no?



Yes, you did

Southeast Asia release SBGH287 140 piece limited edition 44GS case


----------



## Thunder Dump

matthew P said:


> interesting that they are including a leather strap and deployent clasp with these new Soko series.


They did with the other Limited Season Soko ones as well. My SBGA429 came on the bracelet with the crocodile deployant strap as well.


----------



## Dixan

Anyone know if the SBGH295 will have the gold lion on the caseback, like the SBGA413/415? Hoping it’s just a ghosted one, like on the Snowflake. 

Also, I keep reading the dial texture is the same as the SBGA387’s, but, as far as I can tell from what images we have seen, there is no “mottling.” Could it be the dial texture is the same, but the actual blue surface has a more matte finish, compared to the 387’s (partly) shimmery metallic looking finish? Or will it be the exact same dial as the 387’s? 

I have one on the way, so I’m dying to know….


----------



## snash7

Dixan said:


> Anyone know if the SBGH295 will have the gold lion on the caseback, like the SBGA413/415? Hoping it’s just a ghosted one, like on the Snowflake.
> 
> Also, I keep reading the dial texture is the same as the SBGA387’s, but, as far as I can tell from what images we have seen, there is no “mottling.” Could it be the dial texture is the same, but the actual blue surface has a more matte finish, compared to the 387’s (partly) shimmery metallic looking finish? Or will it be the exact same dial as the 387’s?
> 
> I have one on the way, so I’m dying to know….


Here's an article from Grand Seiko GS9 club stating that the dial is not identical due to being produced by a different manufacturer 









USA Exclusive SBGA471 SBGH295 Sōkō Frost | GS9 Club | Grand Seiko


Click here to learn more about this new pair of historically inspired Limited Edition timepieces evoking winter’s first frost.




grandseikogs9club.com


----------



## Loevhagen

@snash7 and @Dixan Well - here are two images from today in broad daylight. Received from an IG discussion. Seems to be in line with previous "US editions". It would be awesome if the SBGH295 had the SBGA407, SBGY007 dial texture instead.


----------



## Dixan

snash7 said:


> Here's an article from Grand Seiko GS9 club stating that the dial is not identical due to being produced by a different manufacturer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA Exclusive SBGA471 SBGH295 Sōkō Frost | GS9 Club | Grand Seiko
> 
> 
> Click here to learn more about this new pair of historically inspired Limited Edition timepieces evoking winter’s first frost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grandseikogs9club.com


I think maybe they meant the 387 was made in the SD/quartz factory, and the 295 is made in the Hi-Beat/auto factory? I don’t see how that would make a difference, unless the finish is intended to be different. Hoping it’s actually the same pattern and finish. 🤔


----------



## Dixan

Loevhagen said:


> @snash7 and @Dixan Well - here are two images from today in broad daylight. Received from an IG discussion. Seems to be in line with previous "US editions". It would be awesome if the SBGH295 had the SBGA407, SBGY007 dial texture instead.
> 
> View attachment 16351753
> 
> 
> View attachment 16351754


Looks pretty close to the 387’s dial? But the “mottling” seems finer? Hard to tell. Thanks for the photos. I guess I’ll find out soon.


----------



## Goyo924

I remember reading a rumor of a Spring Drive White Birch a while ago but I didn’t think it was true. WTF


----------



## Loevhagen

Goyo924 said:


> I remember reading a rumor of a Spring Drive White Birch a while ago but I didn’t think it was true. WTF


Funny enough: The second hand has a cap...and the SLGH005 hasn't... so maybe this is true after all.


----------



## Goyo924

Loevhagen said:


> Funny enough: The second hand has a cap...and the SLGH005 hasn't... som maybe this is true after all.


I took the screenshot from the story posted by the Grand Seiko Europe Instagram account. I originally heard this was going to be announced in February but it might be a bit sooner. I too noticed that second hand cap. 🧐


----------



## JumpJ37

Goyo924 said:


> I took the screenshot from the story posted by the Grand Seiko Europe Instagram account. I originally heard this was going to be announced in February but it might be a bit sooner. I too noticed that second hand cap.


Based on the image and what you’ve heard, do you think this will be the same as the White Birch but with the new Spring Drive movement? The dial looks the same to me and the markers/hour hand look like a Series 9 design. But it is tough for me to tell 100% from the teaser. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## poofoot

JumpJ37 said:


> Based on the image and what you’ve heard, do you think this will be the same as the White Birch but with the new Spring Drive movement? The dial looks the same to me and the markers/hour hand look like a Series 9 design. But it is tough for me to tell 100% from the teaser.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe the dial is a little less silvery than the WB? I can’t tell either 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JumpJ37

The European account seems to leak teasers more than the others and, if I remember, the announcements are pretty quick afterwards. Really hoping for an announcement this week of a Spring Drive Birch! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sidewindingroads

Introducing: The Grand Seiko SLGA009 "White Birch" Spring Drive Caliber 9RA2


A 2021 favorite makes its return, with a movement frosted for the winter.




www.hodinkee.com





Hot off the press! 

Sent from my LE2120 using Tapatalk


----------



## Watchyouloved

*SLGA009







*
Spring Drive 5 days PR - $9100


----------



## SISL

Expensive, no?


----------



## Brey17




----------



## CarbonPrevails

Does anyone know if it’s the same type of silver-like dial like SLGH-005 the or more white like the snowflake? It’s so hard to tell with press photos.


----------



## poofoot

CarbonPrevails said:


> Does anyone know if it’s the same type of silver-like dial like SLGH-005 the or more white like the snowflake? It’s so hard to tell with press photos.


Yeah I was wondering the same thing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dixan

CarbonPrevails said:


> Does anyone know if it’s the same type of silver-like dial like SLGH-005 the or more white like the snowflake? It’s so hard to tell with press photos.


Looks whiter to me. And the “graining” looks a bit less severe, like the white surface is, at the minimum, more uniform and matte, and possibly even less 3D. These would be welcome developments, for me, as I’ve always thought the WB dial was too silvery and the surface texture too chiseled.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Looks both more white/less silver and less deep grooves. In fact, it looks like a white finish on the same texture we had a leaked render for a few months ago. Look at the grooves converging or diverging around a given index -- it's a perfect match. They scrapped the green and decided to make it white instead, and called it a variation on the White Birch.

GS9 Club press photo of SLGA009:









Leaked render of SLGA011:


----------



## CarbonPrevails

Dixan said:


> Looks whiter to me. And the “graining” looks a bit less severe, like the white surface is, at the minimum, more uniform and matte, and possibly even less 3D. These would be welcome developments, for me, as I’ve always thought the WB dial was too silvery and the surface texture too chiseled.


I feel the exact same way. I loved the White Birch when it was announced last year but when I saw it in person the dial was too silvery for me. Don’t get me wrong it was extremely beautiful but just not my taste. I’m hoping this has a more white-like dial.


----------



## poofoot

I hope it’s more white. 

I guess the same thick bracelet as the WB (22 minimal taper)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dixan

poofoot said:


> I hope it’s more white.
> 
> I guess the same thick bracelet as the WB (22 minimal taper)?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was just typing the below reply, which is about the same thing you’re talking about here.


CarbonPrevails said:


> I feel the exact same way. I loved the White Birch when it was announced last year but when I saw it in person the dial was too silvery for me. Don’t get me wrong it was extremely beautiful but just not my taste. I’m hoping this has a more white-like dial.


Now if they would just take a mm from each side of the bracelet and add it to the lugs. The resulting, 1 mm wider lugs, and the 2 mm less wide 20 mm bracelet, would be better balanced, with each other, and to the case diameter. As absolutely beautiful as the lug shape is, as-is, the proportions between the case diameter, the lug size and the bracelet width, are off, in my humble opinion. 22 mm bracelet (with minimal taper) on a 40 mm watch is a bit… eccentric, at best?


----------



## Goyo924

I’m looking at the real life teaser photo and comparing it to my hi beat white birch. The new SD white birch dial looks just as silver at the hi beat white birch just without the deep texture. The official renders are never that accurate.


----------



## poofoot

Dixan said:


> I was just typing the below reply, which is about the same thing you’re talking about here.
> 
> 
> Now if they would just take a mm from each side of the bracelet and add it to the lugs. The resulting, 1 mm wider lugs, and the 2 mm less wide 20 mm bracelet, would be better balanced, with each other, and to the case diameter. As absolutely beautiful as the lug shape is, as-is, the proportions between the case diameter, the lug size and the bracelet width, are off, in my humble opinion. 22 mm bracelet (with minimal taper) on a 40 mm watch is a bit… eccentric, at best?


Yeah I totally agree


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

Now this is really boring. A move which GS had probably (???) never made before. A WB double with just some nuance changes - a tad lighter and smoother. Wake up, GS! 

Or is it a smooth move to send the WB to retirement because of the faulty movement…?


----------



## bibbibart

Now that it really seems that the lugs are a tad wider and the bracelet narrower (to 20mm?) it really looks like perfecting the original White Birch project.


----------



## sidewindingroads

bibbibart said:


> Now this is really boring. A move which GS had probably (???) never made before. A WB double with just some nuance changes - a tad lighter and smoother. Wake up, GS!
> 
> Or is it a smooth move to send the WB to retirement because of the faulty movement…?


What's wrong with the movement and is it really discontinued? 

Sent from my LE2120 using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

sidewindingroads said:


> What's wrong with the movement and is it really discontinued?
> 
> Sent from my LE2120 using Tapatalk


It is just my loose comment. There are many colleagues from our and alike forums noting that the White Birch runs regularly +6/7/8s per day. 

It is just as if GS read our complaints regarding the anyway fantastic WB and tried to correct them:

movement
lugs’ width and lack of bracelet’s taper
too silvery and „harsh” dial.
All these improvements at the same price point - €9.500/$8.600. 

What’s characteristic and I cannot recall earlier instances - it is the second time in a week where GS explains that although the given dial seems to be the same as in the other reference, it actually is not identical (with a clear note that it is produced by another GS studio).


----------



## SISL

What movements do you think they're going to release next? I wouldn't mind a GMT version of the new spring drive...


----------



## poofoot

bibbibart said:


> It is just my loose comment. There are many colleagues from our and alike forums noting that the White Birch runs regularly +6/7/8s per day.
> 
> It is just as if GS read our complaints regarding the anyway fantastic WB and tried to correct them:
> 
> movement
> lugs’ width and lack of bracelet’s taper
> too silvery and „harsh” dial.
> All these improvements at the same price point - €9.500/$8.600.
> 
> What’s characteristic and I cannot recall earlier instances - it is the second time in a week where GS explains that although the given dial seems to be the same as in the other reference, it actually is not identical (with a clear note that it is produced by another GS studio).


Oh I must have missed this — is new one (SDWB) a 20mm lug width?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Loevhagen

GS has updated and introduced on their home page a 4th category collection of watches:

"Evolution 9 collection"

in addition to the pre-existing:

"Masterpiece collection"
"Heritage collection"
"Sport collection"


----------



## bibbibart

poofoot said:


> Oh I must have missed this — is new one (SDWB) a 20mm lug width?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just my guess comparing lug thickness and corresponding bracelet width in the photo presenting both model side by side.


----------



## NightScar

__
http://instagr.am/p/CY2wbpLqQBP/


----------



## BryanUsrey1

Can’t say I like either of those. The Chrono is really not my style and the GMT is nice, but the dual bezel thing is not my taste. 

Still gorgeous dials though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## poofoot

NightScar said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CY2wbpLqQBP/


If only these were 15% smaller …


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cordi7

poofoot said:


> If only these were 15% smaller …
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


40 mm would be perfect, 42 mm max and below 13,5 mm would be a massive hit.
No clue what kind of wrist you need to have to pull those off...


----------



## Domo

NightScar said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CY2wbpLqQBP/


A bit similar to the Takashimaya L.E. SBGE265, but I still like it


----------



## johnMcKlane

cordi7 said:


> 40 mm would be perfect, 42 mm max and below 13,5 mm would be a massive hit.


Waiting for that massive it !


----------



## SISL

They patterned the GMT limited edition on the SBGJ237/9, which I'm sure are great watches but pretty big. It would have been more interesting, IMHO, if they'd use the SBGM245/7 or the SBGE253/5/7 as a canvas. Also, somewhat disappointed they're not using the new 5-day SD movement, but I suspect they don't yet have a GMT module for it.

Edit: To be more accurate, they patterned the new SBGE275 on the SBGE251 for the case & movements, and the SBGJ237/9 for the lumed bezel.


----------



## NightScar




----------



## MattFra22

NightScar said:


> View attachment 16374587
> 
> View attachment 16374588


Best GMT lume I have ever seen - amazing!


----------



## Tm_jL

Tpp3975 said:


> SBGM245 arrived today. Plastic still on it. Explorer Killer!


Congrats! I just received my SBGM245 and totally love it. There's a noticeable "click click click" when I manually wind the movement. Are you experiencing this, too?


----------



## Tpp3975

Tm_jL said:


> Congrats! I just received my SBGM245 and totally love it. There's a noticeable "click click click" when I manually wind the movement. Are you experiencing this, too?


Ill Check it out and pm you.


----------



## Watchretriever

NightScar said:


> View attachment 16374587
> 
> View attachment 16374588


The fact that the white part of the bezel is less than 50% of the overall bezel is definitely triggering my OCD a little bit. Still, such a dope pic.


----------



## duckmcf

Watchretriever said:


> The fact that the white part of the bezel is less than 50% of the overall bezel is definitely triggering my OCD a little bit. Still, such a dope pic.


Well, given that it indicates that the sun comes up at ~06:30 and goes down ~17:30 try thinking of it as a winter watch…


----------



## Badger18

Just saw a post on the public forum saying King Seiko is returning.


----------



## Badger18




----------



## ffnc1020

I think of it as an more refined “modern interpretation “ just like the rest SPB models. But that bracelet is definitely a step up. Hope to see some new bracelet designs in GS instead of the oyster or 5 link again and again.


----------



## Watchyouloved

I like how it’s 37mm but 12.1 thickness might seem a little thick but at $1700 nice cheaper alternative to a sbgw231 especially since it has a silver dial. Something GS is missing with a hardcore dress watch style


----------



## BarracksSi

Watchyouloved said:


> View attachment 16392689
> 
> I like how it’s 37mm but 12.1 thickness might seem a little thick but at $1700 nice cheaper alternative to a sbgw231 especially since it has a silver dial. Something GS is missing with a hardcore dress watch style


12mm is silly. I know I’m splitting hairs here but come on…

The white stitching on the strap, though… wtf? It’s SO CLOSE to looking great except for that.


----------



## Watchyouloved

BarracksSi said:


> 12mm is silly. I know I’m splitting hairs here but come on…
> 
> The white stitching on the strap, though… wtf? It’s SO CLOSE to looking great except for that.











Well the straps are optional, a first offered from Seiko. There’s 5 different straps to choose from which you can buy separately from Seiko. The watches themselves come on a steel bracelet. The thickness is bad but it’s just about as thick as most GS watches now that I think about it and it has a massive box sapphire crystal and caseback to thank for that. 100m WR though!

I think it would look pretty awesome with a vintage style crocodile strap that the king seiko reissue and some vintage styles grand seiko’s have


----------



## Watchyouloved

the case finishing is superb. Look at the 5 sided markers and especially that beautiful 12:00 marker. The handset from the sbgw231 leaves a little more to be wanted


----------



## Watchyouloved

Anyways…I’m waiting for these


----------



## Joe90

Watchyouloved said:


> Anyways…I’m waiting for these
> View attachment 16392802
> 
> View attachment 16392803
> 
> View attachment 16392804


Wow! Are these announced?
As much as the series 9 cases are modern, I’m waiting for a 9R series spring drive in a 44GS case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

Joe90 said:


> Wow! Are these announced?
> As much as the series 9 cases are modern, I’m waiting for a 9R series spring drive in a 44GS case.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No they are not. Not yet. 

And what a relief that we are talking about GS again in a thread devoted to GS and not to (King) Seiko.


----------



## JK919

5 days is a nice bump. Although the dial is cleaner, I kind of like having the power reserve on the front of my spring drive. Makes it slightly more interesting imo.


----------



## Watchyouloved

Joe90 said:


> Wow! Are these announced?
> As much as the series 9 cases are modern, I’m waiting for a 9R series spring drive in a 44GS case.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not yet but that will be a very limited model, 500~ pieces


----------



## Watchyouloved

bibbibart said:


> No they are not. Not yet.
> 
> And what a relief that we are talking about GS again in a thread devoted to GS and not to (King) Seiko.


Nothing wrong with some friendly competition  don’t mind Seiko reviving the king to throw some punches


----------



## Watchyouloved

JK919 said:


> 5 days is a nice bump. Although the dial is cleaner, I kind of like having the power reserve on the front of my spring drive. Makes it slightly more interesting imo.


I’m half and half on the idea. Certain models I don’t mind but on watches like the sbgy003 I love that clean dial and smooth sweep!


----------



## Domo

Watchyouloved said:


> Anyways…I’m waiting for these
> View attachment 16392802
> 
> View attachment 16392803
> 
> View attachment 16392804


A 5-days 44GS?? I didn't think we'd see the next gen movements in the current models but there you go. Maybe the regular 9S/9R are on borrowed time after all


----------



## NightScar

__
http://instagr.am/p/CZN7i4bPhyR/


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Holy price jump, Batman. We now have a 9RA2 for $9500 ($400 more than SLGA009 and $800 more than SLGA007), then a 9SA5 for $10,500 ($1400 more than SLGH005). And let's take the tree growth rings of SLGA008, rotate it a few degrees, change the color and... call it the elliptical orbits of stars in the sky? And more limited editions? I would dig a steel version of an otherwise unchanged SLGA008 but they screwed around quite a bit here.

I've been looking forward to new 9RA2 and 9SA5 pieces, but I'll pass.


----------



## ap27

Nice release. I’ve been hoping for the new movements in a 44GS case, but I wish the dial had thinner indicators and that they used a chapter ring like on the SBGH279


----------



## Buddhabelly

GS is certainly trying to push up-market. However, they need to start coming with new dial designs, recycling recent ones with new movements, call them LE and charge more is starting to be a little…. much?!


----------



## aalin13

Chrono Brewer said:


> Holy price jump, Batman. We now have a 9RA2 for $9500 ($400 more than SLGA009 and $800 more than SLGA007), then a 9SA5 for $10,500 ($1400 more than SLGH005). And let's take the tree growth rings of SLGA008, rotate it a few degrees, change the color and... call it the elliptical orbits of stars in the sky? And more limited editions? I would dig a steel version of an otherwise unchanged SLGA008 but they screwed around quite a bit here.
> 
> I've been looking forward to new 9RA2 and 9SA5 pieces, but I'll pass.


Definitely quite a price increase, but want to point out that these two new LE models use ever brilliant steel.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## Mbappe

Judging by how my SLA043 looks with the Ever Brilliant Steel, I would imagine these two releases are going to look insane in the flesh. Very keen to get see them irl!


----------



## Xhantos

*SLGH009* 










*SLGA013*










The 44GS 55th Anniversary Limited Edition 

Will be available on February 24 2022

Approximate recommended retail prices in Europe: 
€10,500 (SLGH009), €9,500 (SLGA013)

Limited edition of 550 each (200 reserved for JDM)









Grand Seiko, the latest Spring Drive and Hi-Beat movements and Ever-Brilliant Steel. A perfect combination. | Grand Seiko


Grand Seiko official site. Made by hand for those who value perfection. Grand Seiko raises the pure essentials of watchmaking to the level of art.




www.grand-seiko.com












＜グランドセイコー＞「44GS」55周年を記念し、2種類の新世代ムーブメントを搭載する特別素材の限定モデルが登場 | グランドセイコー公式サイト


日本の美意識をもって、腕時計の本質を果てしなく追求するGrand Seiko。最新コレクション、限定製品をはじめ、グランドセイコーのTAKUMIや歴史をご紹介します。




www.grand-seiko.com


----------



## BryanUsrey1

The GS philosophy. 

No seriously, nice looking pieces. I’m wondering if the Hi Beat in this will be a bit more accurate than the reports I’ve seen on here for the Birch. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## aalin13

Found a video of the SLGH009, the case back looks noticeably flatter compared to the old hi beat models






Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## ffnc1020

Nice to see the new SLGA 44gs retained the same diameter, but shaved 0.4mm thickness from the SBGA models.


----------



## Dixan

I agree with sentiments that they shouldn’t be re-purposing a special watch dial pattern or texture, and claim it now represents something else entirely. It feels like opportunism, and brings down the whole concept. These clearly are the recent wood grain dial, with new colors. And we’re supposed to see them as something totally unrelated, and new and unique, now? I think the best way to enjoy them, is to forget about that aspect of them, and to just see the watches for what they are. 44GS + new movements = very cool, but these dials aren’t great representations of wood grain, or of a meteor shower. This particular dial pattern is surprisingly less refined than the GS usual, imo.


----------



## tyyreaun

So... they skipped SLGA011? That's the model number rumored to be the Green Oak.


----------



## bibbibart

tyyreaun said:


> So... they skipped SLGA011? That's the model number rumored to be the Green Oak.


They never skip. Such „skipped” references usually surface up as less or more limited editions (most od them in Japan).


----------



## Bpcirillo

ahonobaka said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Creating an all purpose thread to discuss new and upcoming Grand Seiko models, in an effort to consolidate the various threads. Let's be courteous/cognizant of leaks (aka avoid them please) since this is a sponsored forum.
> 
> Kicking it off with upcoming 9F releases:
> 
> SBGV239: 44GS blue dial
> https://www.grand-seiko.jp/collections/SBGV239/
> 
> SBGT241: 25th Anniversary BoR 1500 pcs
> https://www.grand-seiko.com/collections/SBGT241/
> 
> SBGV238: 25th Anniversary 44GS SS/Gold 600 pcs
> https://www.grand-seiko.com/collections/SBGV238/


these are pretty awesome!


----------



## quasitime

*SLGA013 - *Not a big fan of the rose gold here. Though I would have been good with normal gold tones.


----------



## Watchretriever

Both look great, I'm partial to the SLGA013 personally. I will say, I'm starting to get some Grand Seiko release fatigue. I used to get so excited for new Grand Seiko releases, but now, they release them with such frequency that there's hardly enough time to process the prior release before something new is announced.


----------



## watchdudelikeswatch

That SLGA013 looks great. The dial isn’t over the top. Would love to see it in a video.


----------



## Domo

aalin13 said:


> Found a video of the SLGH009, the case back looks noticeably flatter compared to the old hi beat models
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## BreadCrumbs

These new prices are insane, and I really don't see anything "stars" related about the dial


----------



## sidewindingroads

BreadCrumbs said:


> These new prices are insane, and I really don't see anything "stars" related about the dial


They should have used some aventurine and I would be the first sucker for it! 

Sent from my LE2120 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tanker G1

JK919 said:


> 5 days is a nice bump. Although the dial is cleaner, I kind of like having the power reserve on the front of my spring drive. Makes it slightly more interesting imo.


It could be my resistance to paying as the 9RA2 Spring Drives march towards $10,000 but I think I agree with you. Bonus: you don't need to take the watch off or out of your watch box to check the PR.

I just got a Seiko SLA055 on Monday. It's my first watch using EBS and there's a noticeable difference when compared to 316L. These two new EBS 44GS are gonna sparkle bigly.


----------



## Winzzz

My ad said they can get the slgh 009 for me.if only i dont have the slgh 003 already i would right jump on it.agh the dilemma


----------



## samson66

aalin13 said:


> Found a video of the SLGH009, the case back looks noticeably flatter compared to the old hi beat models
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


Wow, that does look good  

I like the beveled edges of the case sides. Watch looks very thin, and the display caseback looks great. 

Odd that they put the Hi-Beat in one model and the Spring Drive in the other. 

Sent from my Galaxy S20 using Tapatalk


----------



## JK919

Tanker G1 said:


> It could be my resistance to paying as the 9RA2 Spring Drives march towards $10,000 but I think I agree with you. Bonus: you don't need to take the watch off or out of your watch box to check the PR.
> 
> I just got a Seiko SLA055 on Monday. It's my first watch using EBS and there's a noticeable difference when compared to 316L. These two new EBS 44GS are gonna sparkle bigly.


Yeah over triple the price I paid for my SD has me balking a bit.


----------



## Tanker G1

That didn't take long. The SLGA013 appears to be sold out. I considered it briefly yesterday but after tax $10,212 gave me pause. Now that it's sold out, I've got mild regret tempered by knowing another release is coming soon enough. Knowing GS, it'll look remarkably similar to the SLGA013 with a different dial texture.

Wonder what percentage went to speculators?

Edit: Not sold out, just default limit message when you're waffling with one in your cart.


----------



## quasitime

I always assume resellers are buying them up from the website. Is there anything in place to prevent that? Like max quantity per shipping address?


----------



## BarracksSi

quasitime said:


> I always assume resellers are buying them up from the website. Is there anything in place to prevent that? Like max quantity per shipping address?


Over in Rolexworld, people complain that Rolex isn't going to online sales. THIS IS WHY it's a bad idea. (worse than distributing through ADs, anyway)


----------



## acebruin

Tanker G1 said:


> That didn't take long. The SLGA013 appears to be sold out. I considered it briefly yesterday but after tax $10,212 gave me pause. Now that it's sold out, I've got mild regret tempered by knowing another release is coming soon enough. Knowing GS, it'll look remarkably similar to the SLGA013 with a different dial texture.
> 
> Wonder what percentage went to speculators?
> 
> View attachment 16397268


Check your cart. You probably still have 1 in your cart. It usually says quantity limit reached when you already have 1 in your cart. @Tanker G1


----------



## SISL

I very much doubt resellers are buying GS at retail + tax from the boutique. That's a game you can play with a few brands, but with GS that's really rolling the dice.


----------



## quasitime

I guess that answers that question. 1 max per shipping address, but it's possible they don't have a way to track destinations. So maybe multiple orders could be placed.


----------



## Blastar

Can't unsee new bezel proportion on SLGH009, omg Seiko why?
Bezel compare
I dreamed about 44gs case with new hi-beat movement. But looks like something in new GS designs keep turning me off.


----------



## Loevhagen

Blastar said:


> Can't unsee new bezel proportion on SLGH009, omg Seiko why?


What on earth are you talking about? -> Bezels and chapter rings are not the same. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## One-Seventy

quasitime said:


> I always assume resellers are buying them up from the website. Is there anything in place to prevent that? Like max quantity per shipping address?


The investors will have bought several each time along with a box of unwanted and/or unfashionable GSs that haven't generate social media traffic. They get discounts that us mortals don't get, and the product never hits the shelves; it stalls at the back door, and goes straight back out again.


----------



## John Price

Loevhagen said:


> What on earth are you talking about? -> Bezels and chapter rings are not the same. 🤷‍♂️


Ditto - Not understanding what Blastar is getting at.


----------



## Blastar

Bezels are not the same, check image with two recent LE watches


----------



## super_purple

Buddhabelly said:


> GS is certainly trying to push up-market. However, they need to start coming with new dial designs, recycling recent ones with new movements, call them LE and charge more is starting to be a little…. much?!


Exactly how I feel about this. At this point it's just a load of marketing BS. They need unique dial patterns and colors for each model at the 10k price point.


----------



## Tanker G1

super_purple said:


> Exactly how I feel about this. At this point it's just a load of marketing BS. They need unique dial patterns and colors for each model at the 10k price point.


The dial inspiration stories are something, like a word salad. 

"The frosted shooting tree ring stars glistening over the frozen lake surrounded by cherry flavored snow cloud covered birch trees in summer bloom." 
"That covers it boys. We can use this dial 8 times"

Here's a possible solution: I'll take one 9RA2 with a recycled dial for cheap.

_< checks account balance >_

Say $133 or so and not a peep from me.


----------



## Watchyouloved

That blue wood dial is not the night sky with stars or whatever, that’s just cheap GS…horrible marketing

all this nature inspiration is getting old


----------



## BarracksSi

Blastar said:


> Bezels are not the same, check image with two recent LE watches
> View attachment 16398259


The white one's a GMT. It's taller, so it has a taller bezel.


----------



## mark.wilo13

I feel like GS have lost the plot. Churning out LE after LE, using the same designs with these expensive new movements that none of us really need.

Why can’t they release some watches the majority actually want, like a 39mm Snowflake with the PR indicator removed using the old SD movement. Who needs more than 72hrs power reserve and 15s a month accuracy!?!?


----------



## bibbibart

mark.wilo13 said:


> I feel like GS have lost the plot. Churning out LE after LE, using the same designs with these expensive new movements that none of us really need.
> 
> Why can’t they release some watches the majority actually want, like a 39mm Snowflake with the PR indicator removed using the old SD movement. Who needs more than 72hrs power reserve and 15s a month accuracy!?!?


Very much agree with your viewpoiny. I’d love to see a new take on the SBGY003 dial in the same case or SBGK005. 

What I’d also love to see is some YELLOW dial - GS has probably never issued a yellow dial watch.


----------



## CarbonPrevails

bibbibart said:


> Very much agree with your viewpoiny. I’d love to see a new take on the SBGY003 dial in the same case or SBGK005.
> 
> What I’d also love to see is some YELLOW dial - GS has probably never issued a yellow dial watch.


I’m totally with you on the dial colors. I feel like for as fun as Gs dials are they really should go with even crazier and fun dial colors like yellow/orange/purple etc.


----------



## Loevhagen




----------



## SISL

I'd buy that green SD for sure.


----------



## GrandWatcher

Yellow snowflake 😂


----------



## CarbonPrevails

GrandWatcher said:


> Yellow snowflake 😂


I know you’re joking but I meant yellow being used on something like a whirlpool dial. I think it would look cool with the black alternating G and S pattern.


----------



## CarbonPrevails

Loevhagen said:


> View attachment 16399888
> 
> 
> View attachment 16399889
> View attachment 16399890
> View attachment 16399892


I really dig the red version of the SLGA007.


----------



## Watchyouloved

Loevhagen said:


> View attachment 16399888
> 
> 
> View attachment 16399889
> View attachment 16399890
> View attachment 16399892


Ah marijuana leaf green, piss in the snow yellow, and sea of blood red. I can dig it!


----------



## Domo

There's no way that yellow snowflake is real


----------



## CarbonPrevails

Domo said:


> There's no way that yellow snowflake is real


They are photoshops from I think Instagram user its_wis_made


----------



## Whiskey&Watch

First wrist shot of SBGJ255 on WUS. I am not buying it, still happy with the SBGJ01.


----------



## CarbonPrevails

I real


Whiskey&Watch said:


> First wrist shot of SBGJ255 on WUS. I am not buying it, still happy with the SBGJ01.
> View attachment 16401052
> View attachment 16401055


Dam that looks really nice.


----------



## Domo

Whiskey&Watch said:


> First wrist shot of SBGJ255 on WUS. I am not buying it, still happy with the SBGJ01.
> View attachment 16401052
> View attachment 16401055


It does look nice. I think the lume integration on the indices is especially well done


----------



## Whiskey&Watch

Domo said:


> It does look nice. I think the lume integration on the indices is especially well done


Second that. The lume integration is done in a subtle and tasteful way! However, I was underwhelmed by the dial textures in comparison to my SBGJ01.


----------



## BarracksSi

GrandWatcher said:


> Yellow snowflake 😂


You remember the one with a white snowflake dial and gold markers? _That_ one looked worse, IMO.


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> Those dials look fabulous, but I’ll pass.
> 
> It’ll take a GS GMT that’s around 12mm thick with a rotating bezel (regardless of movement type) for me to be all in. Something like a SBGN001/003/005 with a rotating bezel would have me pulling out my credit card in a New York minute.
> 
> Until then, I’ll be waiting in the wings…
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel





percysmith said:


> Also considered a Seiko Sharp GMT today.
> 
> Functionally it does all I need it to do as travel watch - True GMT, not occupy a power slot. Bezel not required. See through case back helps. Hardened polished steel sides.
> 
> Not too heavy on wrist. Bit tall but I can live with it. At a price point that I won’t hurt too much if I lose it. I hope I get a good 6R64 (my SARB033 6R15 flummoxed my watchmaker and we had put in a new movement).
> 
> View attachment 16276948
> 
> 
> View attachment 16276950
> 
> 
> But I can’t live with the hemp dials. I’ll wait:
> 
> View attachment 16278912


I think I cracked it today with the SPB273J1 Gofun Sharp

Yes it’s still a hemp dial. But the problem I have with the hemp dials is that the ones up to date _glitter_ too much. This one doesn’t.

Fortunately the card I want to put the purchase on is not on me so the model is on hold for me for 24h. US$1,145/A$1,639.


----------



## GrandWatcher

Yellow is not an easy colour to design for. 

I would love to see GS take on salmon.


----------



## samson66

Whiskey&Watch said:


> First wrist shot of SBGJ255 on WUS. I am not buying it, still happy with the SBGJ01.
> View attachment 16401052
> View attachment 16401055


Happy to see the lumed hands but still not really loving the overall look.

Sent from my Galaxy S20 using Tapatalk


----------



## loganhunter2009

I'm still waiting for the 9RA2 with the power reserve indicator in the back for a GS diver watch. Is that going to be announce at "Watches and Wonders" instead?


----------



## 6L35

SLGH009: 44GS + 9SA5 + Ever Brilliant Steel...


----------



## snash7

GrandWatcher said:


> Yellow is not an easy colour to design for.
> 
> I would love to see GS take on salmon.


They already have,,,,,the SBGA371


----------



## percysmith

percysmith said:


> I think I cracked it today with the SPB273J1 Gofun Sharp
> 
> Yes it’s still a hemp dial. But the problem I have with the hemp dials is that the ones up to date _glitter_ too much. This one doesn’t.
> 
> Fortunately the card I want to put the purchase on is not on me so the model is on hold for me for 24h. US$1,145/A$1,639.
> 
> View attachment 16401389
> 
> 
> View attachment 16401388


Itch solved. My first true GMT. My dilemma when I walked out the door was: do I set the GMT to local time or to US west coast (which is the time zone I readily can’t do in my head).

I’ll keep it on US west coast until HK borders reopen. Which won’t reopen until Mainland China reopens.

@duckmcf - I kind of get when you say you don't have everything (there's no bezel).
I figured I have two travel scenarios
1. I am driving, I need the bezel to time my breaks. I generally won't travel more than one time zone, I'll take the Merkur.
2. I'm not driving, no real need to time anything. It might be multiple time zones, I'll take the Sharp GMT.
The only watches that can do them all are GMT Master II, GS GMTs with bezels and Omega Aqua Terra GMTs. The Rolex attracts criminals (isn't safe), the GMT has to be babied and the Omega's too big.










It’s a good watch to compare Zaratsu vs non-Zaratsu. Left is SBGR253 (factory repolished), right is SPB273J1:


----------



## GrandWatcher

snash7 said:


> They already have,,,,,the SBGA371


I take back what I said. I would not like to see GS take on salmon.


----------



## poofoot

percysmith said:


> Itch solved. My first true GMT. My dilemma when I walked out the door was: do I set the GMT to local time or to US west coast (which is the time zone I readily can’t do in my head).
> 
> I’ll keep it on US west coast until HK borders reopen. Which won’t reopen until Mainland China reopens.
> 
> View attachment 16403743
> 
> 
> It’s a good watch to compare Zaratsu vs non-Zaratsu. Left is SBGR253 (factory repolished), right is SPB273J1:
> 
> View attachment 16403876


Congrats!

Thanks for posting the pictures as well. I don’t see any difference in the polishing… should I? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## percysmith

poofoot said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Thanks for posting the pictures as well. I don’t see any difference in the polishing… should I?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There’s noticeable distortion on the right.


----------



## Watchyouloved

GrandWatcher said:


> I take back what I said. I would not like to see GS take on salmon.


Lol not a fan?


----------



## Watchyouloved

snash7 said:


> They already have,,,,,the SBGA371
> 
> View attachment 16402728
> 
> View attachment 16402733


A part of me likes it but I’m not sure if I love it enough to justify the high asking price for these on the secondary market. Clearly this is based on the lower tier spring drive models which slot under the 44gs, 62gs, and snowflake tier watches so it might not look as impressive as those in person as they are entry level ($4800) but might still look nice.


----------



## poofoot

percysmith said:


> There’s noticeable distortion on the right.


I can’t tell if you’re messing with me or serious. Aren’t they both distorted a bit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## super_purple

Don't think anyone has posted this yet. SBGA473 limited to 73 pieces and only available at the Chiba boutique. Looks like it is a Snowflake in stainless steel instead of titanium (great!) with gold and red highlights. Reminds me of the very sought after SBGA421 but at a more reasonable price. Expected to release in February 2022.


----------



## Domo

super_purple said:


> View attachment 16405854
> 
> 
> Don't think anyone has posted this yet. SBGA473 limited to 73 pieces and only available at the Chiba boutique. Looks like it is a Snowflake in stainless steel instead of titanium (great!) with gold and red highlights. Reminds me of the very sought after SBGA421 but at a more reasonable price. Expected to release in February 2022.


Very nice, good find! Coloured printing for the minute track is a rare thing to see


----------



## bibbibart

super_purple said:


> View attachment 16405854
> 
> 
> Don't think anyone has posted this yet. SBGA473 limited to 73 pieces and only available at the Chiba boutique. Looks like it is a Snowflake in stainless steel instead of titanium (great!) with gold and red highlights. Reminds me of the very sought after SBGA421 but at a more reasonable price. Expected to release in February 2022.


Yep, it was posted 5 days ago by Anthony from #plus9time on IG. Some leaks were earlier this month (Jan 6 I believe).

I just cannot unsee the clash of colors which occurs here for me. Gold (RG???) with red. Somehow doesn’t fit together. Or is it only me?


----------



## super_purple

bibbibart said:


> Yep, it was posted 5 days ago by Anthony from #plus9time on IG. Some leaks were earlier this month (Jan 6 I believe).
> 
> I just cannot unsee the clash of colors which occurs here for me. Gold (RG???) with red. Somehow doesn’t fit together. Or is it only me?


I share similar thoughts. It could easily grow on me or go the opposite way over time. The fact that it's a 73 piece LE makes this more appealing as a potential collector's item.


----------



## cordi7

bibbibart said:


> Yep, it was posted 5 days ago by Anthony from #plus9time on IG. Some leaks were earlier this month (Jan 6 I believe).
> 
> I just cannot unsee the clash of colors which occurs here for me. Gold (RG???) with red. Somehow doesn’t fit together. Or is it only me?


It's not just you, the colors just don't match. Not to mention that to me, regardless of the limitation and all the uniqueness around it, it's the same macaroni & cheese heated up in a microwave served 3 days after it's been originally cooked. I believe that there was no month for quite some time now without a 'limited edition'.


----------



## bibbibart

Actually I like GS LEs very much. Can’t say a bad word about my Charcoalflake. But sometimes they just exaggerate, try too much. 

It is this nice thrill throughout the entire year waiting and hoping for GS to release a fantastic LE, something unique. 

But the truth may have been recently that the bookkeepers are influencing what GS sends out to market in the past months…


----------



## SISL

Those micro editions seem limited to Asia. I wonder why.


----------



## Xhantos

jdelage said:


> Those micro editions seem limited to Asia. I wonder why.


With such limited runs, I always suspect they might be commissioned items rather than a release planned at GS headquarters.


----------



## ronenash

super_purple said:


> View attachment 16405854
> 
> 
> Don't think anyone has posted this yet. SBGA473 limited to 73 pieces and only available at the Chiba boutique. Looks like it is a Snowflake in stainless steel instead of titanium (great!) with gold and red highlights. Reminds me of the very sought after SBGA421 but at a more reasonable price. Expected to release in February 2022.


Not for me. Don't like the color way on this one.


----------



## BarracksSi

jdelage said:


> Those micro editions seem limited to Asia. I wonder why.


Why not?


----------



## bibbibart

jdelage said:


> Those micro editions seem limited to Asia. I wonder why.


These are editions for selected Japanese ADs. Major ones. In many cases located at major department stores in Tokyo, Osaka and other cities. To name a few: Wako, Isetan, oomiya.


----------



## TraserH3

Tanker G1 said:


> That didn't take long. The SLGA013 appears to be sold out. I considered it briefly yesterday but after tax $10,212 gave me pause. Now that it's sold out, I've got mild regret tempered by knowing another release is coming soon enough. Knowing GS, it'll look remarkably similar to the SLGA013 with a different dial texture.
> 
> Wonder what percentage went to speculators?
> 
> Edit: Not sold out, just default limit message when you're waffling with one in your cart.
> 
> View attachment 16397268


I'm surprised people actually use that new site to order online. You know you can get good discount at ADs. After the initial rush, watches like these move like molasses. Of course GS is trying to counter balance that fact by producing smaller and smaller quantities 600? in this case. You didn't miss out.


----------



## SISL

I know, but still, I wish we had access to some super-limited editions too. I suppose we don't have an AD chain with enough critical mass.


----------



## bibbibart

jdelage said:


> I know, but still, I wish we had access to some super-limited editions too. I suppose we don't have an AD chain with enough critical mass.


Well, I am pretty sure it will be the case in the US sooner than later. There was a very limited run of GS reference for Timeless Luxury Watches (now WoS) some time ago.


----------



## percysmith

poofoot said:


> I can’t tell if you’re messing with me or serious. Aren’t they both distorted a bit?


Maybe my SBGR253 is not the best example of GS's work. I didn't buy it new (out of production by the time I found out about it), the (Japanese) reseller was upfront about the watch having been serviced and repolished. In the delivery package I received GS's original and what appears to be GS Service Centre's documentation, so the seller's story appears to be true to me.

But the GS does look less distorted, at least in person. Maybe it's my iPhone camera.


----------



## OliverDakota

Tanker G1 said:


> That didn't take long. The SLGA013 appears to be sold out. I considered it briefly yesterday but after tax $10,212 gave me pause. Now that it's sold out, I've got mild regret tempered by knowing another release is coming soon enough. Knowing GS, it'll look remarkably similar to the SLGA013 with a different dial texture.
> 
> Wonder what percentage went to speculators?
> 
> Edit: Not sold out, just default limit message when you're waffling with one in your cart.
> 
> View attachment 16397268


I hope to see more references just like this SLGA013 except with different dial colors/patterns and no date. That would be killer


----------



## percysmith

Whiskey&Watch said:


> First wrist shot of SBGJ255 on WUS. I am not buying it, still happy with the SBGJ01.
> View attachment 16401052
> View attachment 16401055


I’m not sure if this is the same model, but the model I tried in Hong Kong feels like a MOP dial.

(Titanium model):


----------



## Whiskey&Watch

percysmith said:


> I’m not sure if this is the same model, but the model I tried in Hong Kong feels like a MOP dial.
> 
> (Titanium model):
> 
> View attachment 16410849
> 
> 
> View attachment 16410848


I reckon it's the same model. Just your lighting is not so bright making the dial MOP like! And you are still having the warps on, mine was taken wraps removed!


----------



## percysmith

Whiskey&Watch said:


> I reckon it's the same model. Just your lighting is not so bright making the dial MOP like! And you are still having the warps on, mine was taken wraps removed!


Wrapping every display model is pretty SOP in HK, at GS and its peer levels.

Not only does it cause a frustrating shopping experience, even the sales got confused the watch was supposed to be MOP when I asked about it. Or wasn’t trained in what he sells adequately.


----------



## Whiskey&Watch

percysmith said:


> Wrapping every display model is pretty SOP in HK, at GS and its peer levels.
> 
> Not only does it cause a frustrating shopping experience, even the sales got confused the watch was supposed to be MOP when I asked about it. Or wasn’t trained in what he sells adequately.


Overprotective like Ms Lam😄. Anyway, you can see some real-life professionally taken photos here. 








Grand Seiko 44GS 55th Anniversary Limited Edition SBGJ255


Looks like this has not been posted in the forum. Apologies in advance if it's a double post. Quite similar to the snowflake dial, The rotor is like the SBGJ005, The blue GS logo looks pretty good High-intensity titanium Lume on the hands and indexes. I like it. Link: SBGJ255 | COLLECTIONS |...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## percysmith

Whiskey&Watch said:


> First wrist shot of SBGJ255 on WUS. I am not buying it, still happy with the SBGJ01.
> View attachment 16401052
> View attachment 16401055


SBGJ201 was my preferred GS elegance GMT anyway. However my impression of the SBGJ201 case in hand is “fat!”.


----------



## One-Seventy

percysmith said:


> Wrapping every display model is pretty SOP in HK, at GS and its peer levels.
> 
> Not only does it cause a frustrating shopping experience, even the sales got confused the watch was supposed to be MOP when I asked about it. Or wasn’t trained in what he sells adequately.


If also means you can't check the smoothness of crown operation, the accuracy of the hand alignment, positioning, winding and setting. If this is how it is, then fine. I'll be buying online instead, and just sending stuff back time and time again if I don't like it. It's expensive, inconvenient, slow, risks damage, and harms the earth a great deal more than if I could go to the store via public transport and check a few out properly in person. But I guess I won't care any more - I'm ok with that. (teH iNtErNeTz FTW!)


----------



## percysmith

One-Seventy said:


> smoothness of crown operation, the accuracy of the hand alignment, positioning, winding and setting. If this is how it is, then fine


Well you can check those before payment. But you should be pulling out your credit card at that point.

If a fault is found then the sales will attempt to remedy the case by producing another (this was actually done for my Sharp GMT, but the alternate unit had worse bezel alignment). You can in theory walk away, but the sales will refuse further service.


----------



## One-Seventy

percysmith said:


> Well you can check those before payment. But you should be pulling out your credit card at that point.


Of course. But the only one with egg on his face, if the watch turns out to be faulty after it's unwrapped, is the salesman - who didn't know there was a faulty watch underneath all that plastic 


> If a fault is found then the sales will attempt to remedy the case by producing another (this was actually done for my Sharp GMT, but the alternate unit had worse bezel alignment). You can in theory walk away


You can in practice too!


> but the sales will refuse further service.


If they're basically unable to sell me a watch with adequate build quality, I'd be more than OK with that.


----------



## egwatchfan

percysmith said:


> Well you can check those before payment. But you should be pulling out your credit card at that point.
> 
> If a fault is found then the sales will attempt to remedy the case by producing another (this was actually done for my Sharp GMT, but the alternate unit had worse bezel alignment). You can in theory walk away, but the sales will refuse further service.


So if you don’t happily purchase a watch with defects the sales person will refuse to sell you products in the future????!!!! How absurd!!! I’m a big GS fan, but that I must say is outrageous. If a dealer treated me that way, they would not have the opportunity to deny me service in the future as I’d never visit their ridiculous shop again.


----------



## percysmith

percysmith said:


> You can in theory walk away, but the sales will refuse further service.


I mean if you walk away after the inspection stage even if you don’t find anything.


----------



## bibbibart

Announced in June 2021, slipped under the radar I believe. What? SBGA465, non-limited SD with sth which looks like a kirazuri dial. Released to market right now. Great price - $4.800/€4.800. 

Anyone has seen it at wild?


----------



## Tpp3975

bibbibart said:


> Announced in June 2021, slipped under the radar I believe. What? SBGA465, non-limited SD with sth which looks like a kirazuri dial. Released to market right now. Great price - $4.800/€4.800.
> 
> Anyone has seen it at wild?


That’s a nice looking watch. Can’t figure out GS pricing. New 9F gmts are 4500. This spring drive is only 4800. The new spring drive in light blue is 6000. Bizarre.


----------



## SmoGea

bibbibart said:


> Announced in June 2021, slipped under the radar I believe. What? SBGA465, non-limited SD with sth which looks like a kirazuri dial. Released to market right now. Great price - $4.800/€4.800.
> 
> Anyone has seen it at wild?


If this watch was without the power indicator than it would be an instant hit. Maybe in real life the power indicator doesn't look that ugly. For example the power indicator on the snowflake looks ok in real life and quite odd in pictures.

On video it looks nice


----------



## super_purple

bibbibart said:


> Announced in June 2021, slipped under the radar I believe. What? SBGA465, non-limited SD with sth which looks like a kirazuri dial. Released to market right now. Great price - $4.800/€4.800.
> 
> Anyone has seen it at wild?


If this is the same dial as the one on SBGA451, then I have to caution that it doesn't look as great in person as it does in photos. Nonetheless this is a nice alternative to the SBGA211.


----------



## Tpp3975

SmoGea said:


> If this watch was without the power indicator than it would be an instant hit. Maybe in real life the power indicator doesn't look that ugly. For example the power indicator on the snowflake looks ok in real life and quite odd in pictures.
> 
> On video it looks nice


At first the power indicators didn’t bother me but after owning a couple, I find them ugly. Won’t necessarily stop me from buying a SD but the placement in the dial is unnecessary and detracts from the gorgeous dials. Hoping GS permanently ditches the front indicator.


----------



## acebruin

Here it is... The Green Birch... SLGH011 online only...









Grand Seiko Hi-Beat 36000 80 Hours SLGH011 Green Birch Watch


Grand Seiko Hi-Beat 36000 80 hours SLGH011 watch with green birch dial available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!




grandseikoboutique.us


----------



## MickCollins1916

The new boutique exclusive SLGH011, green birch, sure has a fantastic dial!


----------



## CarbonPrevails

acebruin said:


> Here it is... The Green Birch... SLGH011 online only...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Hi-Beat 36000 80 Hours SLGH011 Green Birch Watch
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Hi-Beat 36000 80 hours SLGH011 watch with green birch dial available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grandseikoboutique.us


Im kind of disappointed in how the green looks. I feel like a darker green would’ve worked better. It’s cool but not my cup of tea.


----------



## ts298

It’s a beautiful watch. But I wish GS would give the birch and lion’s mane dial stamps a break. A starburst Champaign or black dial in the series 9 case would be fantastic. Or they could try something original like they did with the whirlpool. But I totally get that GS is selling these out in hours, so why would they care about my feedback?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

CarbonPrevails said:


> Im kind of disappointed in how the green looks. I feel like a darker green would’ve worked better. It’s cool but not my cup of tea.


A little too jade for me as well. Glad we have another 9SA5, and another non-limited release. Some good shots at GS9 Club site.


















Evolution 9 Green Birch SLGH011 | GS9 Club | Grand Seiko


The Grand Seiko Evolution 9 Green Birch SLGH011 is a new variation of the acclaimed White Birch model exclusive to the GS Boutique Online.




grandseikogs9club.com


----------



## Dixan

They’re really reaching with the birch thing now. GS, please calm down and focus on a core lineup of timeless, less ephemeral, designs.


----------



## egwatchfan

Ok. I think I just need to embrace the fact that GS doesn’t want to make the dive/sport watch that I’ve been waiting years for. No point continuing to dream for it…. The path the brand is taking is clear. And it’s a great path, don’t get me wrong. But it’s not looking like a path that I need more of (already being a GS owner). It’s not like I’m trying to recreate the natural world in my watch box. At some point I’d rather just go for a hike outdoors. 😂😂😂😂


----------



## bibbibart

Chrono Brewer said:


> A little too jade for me as well. Glad we have another 9SA5, and another non-limited release. Some good shots at GS9 Club site.
> 
> View attachment 16427007
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evolution 9 Green Birch SLGH011 | GS9 Club | Grand Seiko
> 
> 
> The Grand Seiko Evolution 9 Green Birch SLGH011 is a new variation of the acclaimed White Birch model exclusive to the GS Boutique Online.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grandseikogs9club.com


Looks like the jade hue in the Matrix model - ref. SBGJ241. Largely disappointing for me. 

Let’s hope GS tries better at Watches&Wonders.


----------



## SISL

What do people mean by jade?


----------



## 54B

jdelage said:


> What do people mean by jade?


Jade is a green stone, so they mean green.

The SLGH011 looks good but it's only available in September. It seems odd to announce it so early - almost like a Kickstarter campaign!


----------



## Loevhagen

54B said:


> ...It seems odd to announce it so early - almost like a Kickstarter campaign!


Agree. Ridiculous


----------



## PANICiii

I feel a little bit tired already about the series 9 fat indices and hands. And it just got out.


----------



## klackakon

If only this came in a 37mm case


----------



## percysmith

percysmith said:


> Itch solved. My first true GMT. My dilemma when I walked out the door was: do I set the GMT to local time or to US west coast (which is the time zone I readily can’t do in my head).
> 
> I’ll keep it on US west coast until HK borders reopen. Which won’t reopen until Mainland China reopens.
> 
> @duckmcf - I kind of get when you say you don't have everything (there's no bezel).
> I figured I have two travel scenarios
> 1. I am driving, I need the bezel to time my breaks. I generally won't travel more than one time zone, I'll take the Merkur.
> 2. I'm not driving, no real need to time anything. It might be multiple time zones, I'll take the Sharp GMT.
> The only watches that can do them all are GMT Master II, GS GMTs with bezels and Omega Aqua Terra GMTs. The Rolex attracts criminals (isn't safe), the GMT has to be babied and the Omega's too big.
> 
> View attachment 16403743
> 
> 
> It’s a good watch to compare Zaratsu vs non-Zaratsu. Left is SBGR253 (factory repolished), right is SPB273J1:
> 
> View attachment 16403876


The lighting in this sushi joint really brings out the gold accents well in the SPB273J1 Gofun

(for note before someone reports me for breaching Covid rules - I’m waiting for tonight’s takeaway dinner - that is the takeaway menu behind the watch)


----------



## Papillon4

GrandWatcher said:


> Yellow snowflake 😂


haha and the backstory = special dog pees on snowbank …..
I will cry a River of tears if they ever mess with the snowflake dial!


----------



## loganhunter2009

My local boutique just told me they got the SLGA013. I'm not so sure if I like it better than my SLGA007. The only thing that interest me is the new Ever-Brilliant Steel but otherwise I don't like the black dial that much.


----------



## Locutusaborg

loganhunter2009 said:


> My local boutique just told me they got the SLGA013. I'm not so sure if I like it better than my SLGA007. The only thing that interest me is the new Ever-Brilliant Steel but otherwise I don't like the black dial that much.


I have a sla039 in everbrilliant. It’s really not that different in appearance. A little “whiter” but just a little. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Eyeshield25

Does anyone know when they will announce the 2022 Seasons collection?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Eyeshield25 said:


> Does anyone know when they will announce the 2022 Seasons collection?


Somebody correct me if my Googling is inaccurate. The earliest reference I can find to the 2019 seasons collection (SBGA413, etc) were all around May/June 2019. They were the 62GS case and initially US-exclusive before going international late 2021. Earliest references I can find for the 2021 seasons (SBGJ251, etc.) were Feb 2021. They were all GMT and a different case, international from the start.

So I don't think there's a specific rhyme or reason. Might not even have a 2022 seasons collection.


----------



## ahonobaka

Image retracted at GS' request*


----------



## munichblue

ahonobaka said:


> All hands on deck
> View attachment 16460797


WHATS THIS??? 🤔


----------



## Chrono Brewer

That diver with a blacked out Lake Suwa dial would be fire. And a GS Speedmaster to boot. But nothing on the Grand Seiko, GS9 Club, or Instagram pages to corroborate.


----------



## arlee

Im licking my lips with anticipation for the official press release


----------



## munichblue

Im quite sure there won’t be any leaks before the Watches & Wonders fair. But the diver would be a cracker. But I have some doubts they will show a diver with a structured dial.


----------



## cordi7

From that angle they always look good. Show me the thickness…


----------



## SISL

The diver would have the 5-day spring drive, but the reserve indication on the dial...?


----------



## Sassi

SISL said:


> The diver would have the 5-day spring drive, but the reserve indication on the dial...?


Would be perfect. I wish all my watches would have PR indicators on the face. Love my SBGA229 for this. So useful to see the watch is wound for sure. Also if I wear another watch I can easily see when to pick it back up from the box before it stops.


----------



## johnMcKlane

Pffffff any under 42…. SMH


----------



## duckmcf

johnMcKlane said:


> Pffffff any under 42…. SMH


…and would it have killed them to put a rotating dial on the GMT…. smh


----------



## tfost

These look fantastic, the case shapes look new and good, and they appear to be somewhat smaller, hopefully thinner, too. Also, they look like they have more brushed surfaces, which is a good thing IMO.


----------



## ahonobaka

I'm guessing no more leaks either until the official March 31st announcement (W&W) with September launch. Diver will be too expensive for me I'm guessing, though here's hoping it's 40-42mm and under 14mm thick. Hard to tell from renders but seems to be ever brilliant steel possibly?


----------



## lamborghini

ahonobaka said:


> All hands on deck
> View attachment 16460797


@ahonobaka where did you find this? Oh man I hope that diver with the Lake Suwa black dial is real!


----------



## TraserH3

ahonobaka said:


> I'm guessing no more leaks either until the official March 31st announcement (W&W) with September launch. Diver will be too expensive for me I'm guessing, though here's hoping it's 40-42mm and under 14mm thick. Hard to tell from renders but seems to be ever brilliant steel possibly?


yeah fingers crossed for a 40mm diver and same on the gmt!


----------



## singularityseven

I need that diver in my life.


----------



## edotkim

SISL said:


> The diver would have the 5-day spring drive, but the reserve indication on the dial...?


I believe that all of the GS dive models feature a solid caseback. I know that dive watches with display casebacks exist, but it feels in keeping with the spirit of a dive watch to go with a solid caseback. I guess you could question whether a power reserve complication is necessary at all, but Grand Seiko have pretty much made it part of the identity of Spring Drive to include a power reserve, so, if you can't put it on the back...


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

ahonobaka said:


> All hands on deck
> View attachment 16460797


I've had the same leak confirmed. 

Looking forward to finally getting a smaller diver but sadly it'll be more expensive too as far as I've heard. Don't know the exact measurements and price yet.

The Lake Suwa dial might be limited for the launch but I'm not sure about that yet either.

We'll know more end of March at the latest.

Personally, I'd absolutely love a smaller, thinner diver and I love textured GS Dials and spring drive so this could be a dream watch.


----------



## ANCHCAYEAHB

Hi! I would like to reach out to you on this post. Please let me know on how I can send you a private message as soon as possible. Thank you and hoping for your urgent response 🙏


----------



## percysmith

ahonobaka said:


> All hands on deck
> View attachment 16460797


The middle one looks like the Speedmaster, Batman and Sharp Edge GMT got into a threesome


----------



## munichblue

ahonobaka said:


> I'm guessing no more leaks either until the official March 31st announcement (W&W) with September launch. Diver will be too expensive for me I'm guessing, though here's hoping it's 40-42mm and under 14mm thick. Hard to tell from renders but seems to be ever brilliant steel possibly?





Euron Greyjoy said:


> I've had the same leak confirmed.…


Gentleman, would you please let us know if these are mocks, or where you got these pictures or information from?


----------



## One-Seventy

ahonobaka said:


> All hands on deck
> View attachment 16460797


They look very nice, but I wouldn't like to take a guess at the prices.


----------



## Domo

ahonobaka said:


> All hands on deck
> View attachment 16460797


The left one seems to suggest that they will be offering the new cases and bracelets but with the 9R/9S older generation movements after all....


----------



## egwatchfan

cordi7 said:


> From that angle they always look good. Show me the thickness…


Well said my friend - couldn’t be truer!!!! I hope you are wrong but I fear you will be right.


----------



## SISL

Domo said:


> The left one seems to suggest that they will be offering the new cases and bracelets but with the 9R/9S older generation movements after all....


That would mean same thickness as current GMT SD....?


----------



## Cward85

Any reference numbers? Called my AD first thing this morning to be number 1 in line for the diver... He laughed and said how do I find these things before anyone else. Can't wait for the official release photos!


----------



## egwatchfan

Cward85 said:


> Any reference numbers? Called my AD first thing this morning to be number 1 in line for the diver... He laughed and said how do I find these things before anyone else. Can't wait for the official release photos!


So… are you saying the AD confirmed this is real?


----------



## Cward85

egwatchfan said:


> So… are you saying the AD confirmed this is real?


No, he did not confirm it, but when I placed a deposit a year before on the SLGA007 I did not get confirmation that it was real until it debuted; and I believe he knew about it six weeks before the August release but was respecting the info embargo. I'm hoping it's real based on the OP and a follow up from another enthusiast above saying it's real. So I called to make sure that if it's real, I secure the watch - that diver will sell out in the first hour for sure. Fingers crossed!


----------



## ahonobaka

Removed the leaked image at GS' request.


----------



## bibbibart

ahonobaka said:


> Removed the leaked image at GS' request.


Now, this tells a lot! Happy to have saved it on my mobile


----------



## Domo

bibbibart said:


> Now, this tells a lot! Happy to have saved it on my mobile


shhhhhhhh


----------



## Cward85

Thank God I let my AD know. Muhohahahahhaha!


----------



## Chrono Brewer

bibbibart said:


> Now, this tells a lot! Happy to have saved it on my mobile





Domo said:


> shhhhhhhh


----------



## matthew P

Mmmmm…… hour and minute hands with full thin tip makes me think 44mm but the look/ case shape and comparison to the chrono makes me think smaller……. 
Love the look / date window placement on all three and the PR indicator/ positioning works better than many I’ve seen recently. 
Fantastic looking pieces.


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

ANCHCAYEAHB said:


> Hi! I would like to reach out to you on this post. Please let me know on how I can send you a private message as soon as possible. Thank you and hoping for your urgent response 🙏


Hi, this forum has PMs. I've already adjusted the wording of my post and the leaked image has also been removed, as requested by GS.


----------



## bibbibart

Just curious how it works - was it a GS representative send you an offer you cannot turn down? Like „remove this render or each of your GSs will be far out of the specs?” 

Or maybe „if you remove it we will stop making endless LEs”?


----------



## percysmith

bibbibart said:


> Just curious how it works - was it a GS representative send you an offer you cannot turn down?


Or remove it or we will deliver a zaratsu-polished horse head at the end of your bed tomorrow morning?


----------



## Tpp3975

ahonobaka said:


> Removed the leaked image at GS' request.


just wondering but why? Leaks are leaks. If GS didn’t want it out there, they should do a better job protecting their PR. Seems newsworthy to me. Anyway I hope they compensated you or something


----------



## munichblue

With all due respect, the whole affair strikes me as very strange and a little implausible. Since when does a company like Grand Seiko write the user who posted the picture in a leak? In every other known incident with leaks, the company concerned has asked the platform operator to remove the image.

If I do wrong to the corresponding user, I apologize in advance.


----------



## Tpp3975

munichblue said:


> With all due respect, the whole affair strikes me as very strange and a little implausible. Since when does a company like Grand Seiko write the user who posted the picture in a leak? In every other known incident with leaks, the company concerned has asked the platform operator to remove the image.
> 
> If I do wrong to the corresponding user, I apologize in advance.


I agree. Leaks happen all the time everywhere. And they typically are not removed by the platform in any event because they are newsworthy and protected speech. Look at the iPhone. Leaked images are rampant and Apple - the biggest company on the planet - is powerless to stop them. Only reason for the poster to remove the images would be if he was personally involved in obtaining the images. Otherwise they are fair game for the public domaine.

Now if GS compensated him that’s a different story.


----------



## Cward85

I don't know - the same leak showed up on the Facebook GS group and was then taken down/disappeared. I tried asking the OP there and didn't get a response. And the post did get quite a bit of attention. Who knows.


----------



## Xhantos

Doesn't anyone else now have the picture? Just post it and lets see what happens next


----------



## Tpp3975

Cward85 said:


> I don't know - the same leak showed up on the Facebook GS group and was then taken down/disappeared. I tried asking the OP there and didn't get a response. And the post did get quite a bit of attention. Who knows.


Quite the conspiracy. As if anyone other than a few hundred (thousand) watch enthusiasts care. It’s not like it’s going to be plastered on the evening news. If GS really got worked up over this, they should really exercise some judgment and levity. It’s a luxury watch not a matter of national security. Plus you think they’d like the free buzz true or not.


----------



## Tpp3975

Xhantos said:


> Doesn't anyone else now have the picture? Just post it and lets see what happens next


Consulting with my attorney…. Oh wait, thats me. It wasn’t even that exciting.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

I can see both GS and customer's interests/sides. I imagine that request to take down a photo was about respect and fairness.

First, we have a company whose work we follow enthusiastically because their products show mastery of both their art and craft. They hold their position in the market because of their exceptional attention to details. Anything they release has been meticulously planned far in advance including when and how they will unveil it. I used to be a kid snooping around for Christmas presents my parents had hidden around the house. Now I'm a parent and realize it would spoil the presentation I had in mind for my kid. So if something interesting gets leaked, I enjoy seeing it and maybe even ask a dealer I work with to tentatively put my name down for it ASAP. But if those craftsmen ask one of us take down a photo to not spoil their surprise, I'm willing to respect them. It also could be a rough draft. Remember the SLGA011 was a leak that never panned out, instead having been altered to the SLGH011. Essentially just the movement changed but it was a brand new dial texture and color at the time. They hadn't committed to the final product and the leak only caused confusion.

Second, I've nearly been on the losing end of the potential unfairness of leaks. Last year's SLGA007 Lake Suwa piece was leaked months in advance. Tons of people who knew where to read (this forum) had already gotten their names down for it with dealers. Yet I was new to this hobby and just barely got one, only learning later as I became active here that some had such advance notice. Wouldn't have had a chance if it hadn't been 2021 pieces. If I were Grand Seiko, I would support the enthusiast community (GS9 Club, etc) but try not to let them be the only ones with access to my releases, even if not just flippers but top-tier enthusiasts buying for their own enjoyment.

We'll see those pieces again. I'm just glad the diligence and attention to detail GS exhibits also includes monitoring our conversations. They're listening, and that's a great thing. That's why we no longer have goofy gold-stamped lions obstructing our exhibition casebacks, have thinner movements, power reserve indicators moved to the rear. If only more companies took such an interest in customer feedback that they actively monitored public channels. We have a rare opportunity to personally show respect by taking down a photo if they ask. Heck, I still have this recent leak open in another browser tab but wouldn't post it again for that reason.


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> I can see both GS and customer's interests/sides. I imagine that request to take down a photo was about respect and fairness.
> 
> First, we have a company whose work we follow enthusiastically because their products show mastery of both their art and craft. They hold their position in the market because of their exceptional attention to details. Anything they release has been meticulously planned far in advance including when and how they will unveil it. I used to be a kid snooping around for Christmas presents my parents had hidden around the house. Now I'm a parent and realize it would spoil the presentation I had in mind for my kid. So if something interesting gets leaked, I enjoy seeing it and would maybe even getting a dealer I work with to tentatively put my name down for it. But if those craftsmen ask one of us take down a photo to not spoil their surprise or, I'm willing to respect them. It also could be a rough draft. Remember the SLGA011 was a leak that never panned out, instead having been altered to the SLGH011. Essentially just the movement changed but it was a brand new dial texture and color at the time. They hadn't committed to the final product and the leak only caused confusion.
> 
> Second, I've nearly been on the losing end of the potential unfairness of leaks. Last year's SLGA007 Lake Suwa piece was leaked months in advance. Tons of people who knew where to read (this forum) had already gotten their names down for it with dealers. Yet I was new to this hobby and just barely got one, only learning later as I became active here that some had such advance notice. Wouldn't have had a chance if it hadn't been 2021 pieces. If I were Grand Seiko, I would support the enthusiast community (GS9 Club, etc) but try not to let them be the only ones with access to my releases, even if not just flippers but top-tier enthusiasts buying for their own enjoyment.
> 
> We'll see those pieces again. I'm just glad the diligence and attention to detail GS exhibits also includes monitoring our conversations. They're listening, and that's a great thing. That's why we no longer have goofy gold-stamped lions obstructing our exhibition casebacks, have thinner movements, power reserve indicators moved to the rear. If only more companies took such an interest in customer feedback that they actively monitored public channels. We have an opportunity to personally show respect by taking down a photo if they ask. Heck, I still have this recent leak open in another browser tab but wouldn't post it again for that reason.


This strikes me as taking a “watch” way too seriously. I certainly respect your views but all of this “respect” for a mega company is kind of silly. They are no different than any other corporation. They listen because it is in their financial interests to do so and not out of some greater concern for “us”. If GS really cared about “us” they’d cut the crap with all the LEs that most of us can never get because they end up in the hands of scalpers who charge 2x for them. These LEs create hype at our expense. Then if we really want them, we have to pay up for them (which I will never ever do). 

I wish someone would put the picture back up. My recollection was there was a nice smallish black diver with a silver bezel but it’s all just a dream now …


----------



## Cward85

Tpp3975 said:


> Quite the conspiracy. As if anyone other than a few hundred (thousand) watch enthusiasts care. It’s not like it’s going to be plastered on the evening news. If GS really got worked up over this, they should really exercise some judgment and levity. It’s a luxury watch not a matter of national security. Plus you think they’d like the free buzz true or not.
> [/QUOT


At the risk of being suspended from the forum:

Picture removed at request of GS Philippines.


----------



## Tpp3975

Cward85 said:


> At the risk of being suspended from the forum:


You sir are a true gentleman!


----------



## thewatchidiot

Cward85 said:


> At the risk of being suspended from the forum:


Thanks 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## johncomer

Grand Seiko may come calling, that's something to brag about.


----------



## Xhantos

BTW, at f21, **NEW and UPCOMING Seiko watches** , the link somehow showed and worked. The link is: https://www.watchuseek.com/attachments/16460794/ and here is a screenshot of the post:


----------



## BarracksSi

I think what surprises me the most is how much smaller the pushers are on the chronograph.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Tpp3975 said:


> This strikes me as taking a “watch” way too seriously. I certainly respect your views but all of this “respect” for a mega company is kind of silly. They are no different than any other corporation. They listen because it is in their financial interests to do so and not out of some greater concern for “us”.


They may be a company but they're composed of a lot of dedicated people. Try watching interviews of Joe Kirk, or his presentation at the New York Horological Society with Akio Naito and Kazunori Hoshino. Or interviews and demonstrations from master craftsman Satoshi Hiraga who even traveled to some US dealers to demonstrate the assembly of a Spring Drive. See if you catch the vibe of respect for their customers. It's pretty evident.

Sure keeping leaks tight is in their financial interest. Is that all? If hype or bottom line was all they cared about, why aren't they pulling a waitlisting stunt a la Rolex so you can't even buy them anywhere except secondary and gray market? Or harping on their dominance at the Neuchâtel Chronometer Trials? I read that as respecting customers and competitors alike. They're above that nonsense. Just focused on doing their best work.



Tpp3975 said:


> If GS really cared about “us” they’d cut the crap with all the LEs that most of us can never get because they end up in the hands of scalpers who charge 2x for them. These LEs create hype at our expense. Then if we really want them, we have to pay up for them (which I will never ever do).


Tell us more about how the luxury watch company victimizes you by balancing supply and demand with limited production runs. I share your frustration with flippers and scalpers but Grand Seiko didn't create them. For your future success, GS releases are at noon Tokyo time or 10:00p US Central. You can start glancing at their website every evening or morning to catch a new release, then call your dealer as the business day starts. That's how I got my SLGA007 and do so routinely in case another piece that interests me appears. One text to my dealer at 8:00a and it's secured.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Cward85 said:


> At the risk of being suspended from the forum:


Haha, can't stop the signal. C'est la leak.


----------



## ahonobaka

All the "conspiracy theories" are hilarious to read, but please let's not overthink things (I know, we're watch nerds after all). GS Philippines mistakenly posted the image early, I chanced upon the image and uploaded it on multiple platforms as I know I've personally been excited at the prospect of a new smaller diver for many years (who knows if this is it). I've also been known to spread leaked images since at least the SLA017, so I have a bit of a track record 😅.

Someone at GS Phil. caught wind (or maybe the person who made the mistake themselves) and reached out to me on all of the platforms I uploaded it to, asking me to remove it in good faith. It was deleted by mods on GSOC. I complied, because I may be an as$, but I'm not an as$hole 😂. Simple as that!


----------



## munichblue

ahonobaka said:


> All the "conspiracy theories" are hilarious to read, but please let's not overthink things (I know, we're watch nerds after all). GS Philippines mistakenly posted the image early, I chanced upon the image and uploaded it on multiple platforms as I know I've personally been excited at the prospect of a new smaller diver for many years (who knows if this is it). I've also been known to spread leaked images since at least the SLA017, so I have a bit of a track record 😅.
> 
> Someone at GS Phil. caught wind (or maybe the person who made the mistake themselves) and reached out to me on all of the platforms I uploaded it to, asking me to remove it in good faith. It was deleted by mods on GSOC. I complied, because I may be an as$, but I'm not an as$hole 😂. Simple as that!



Okay, so let's assume that Grand Seiko is reading along in this thread....

Dear Grand Seiko, I copied this picture here and posted it in a German watch forum, which is not as big as WUS, but also has more than 75k users. 

If you don't want to see the picture published before Watches & Wonders (assuming it's real), please send me a private message. I will be more than happy to delete it from this forum.


----------



## Earthbound2

Chrono Brewer said:


> Haha, can't stop the signal. C'est la leak.


Make sure you lock your doors tonight. A ninja may be calling!


----------



## Earthbound2

Actually modern day ninjas probably look more like this and will just erase the images from your devices memory!


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> They may be a company but they're composed of a lot of dedicated people. Try watching interviews of Joe Kirk, or his presentation at the New York Horological Society with Akio Naito and Kazunori Hoshino. Or interviews and demonstrations from master craftsman Satoshi Hiraga who even traveled to some US dealers to demonstrate the assembly of a Spring Drive. See if you catch the vibe of respect for their customers. It's pretty evident.
> 
> Sure keeping leaks tight is in their financial interest. Is that all? If hype or bottom line was all they cared about, why aren't they pulling a waitlisting stunt a la Rolex so you can't even buy them anywhere except secondary and gray market? Or harping on their dominance at the Neuchâtel Chronometer Trials? I read that as respecting customers and competitors alike. They're above that nonsense. Just focused on doing their best work.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us more about how the luxury watch company victimizes you by balancing supply and demand with limited production runs. I share your frustration with flippers and scalpers but Grand Seiko didn't create them. For your future success, GS releases are at noon Tokyo time or 10:00p US Central. You can start glancing at their website every evening or morning to catch a new release, then call your dealer as the business day starts. That's how I got my SLGA007 and do so routinely in case another piece that interests me appears. One text to my dealer at 8:00a and it's secured.


I agree with most of this. I disagree with your assertion that GS could pull a Rolex. They simply can’t unless they want to go bankrupt. They need to sell watches to survive and despite my enjoyment of the brand, there are nowhere near Rolex in terms of brand recognition. By the way, the idea the Rolex deliberately chokes supply has largely been debunked. They sell every single of the MILLION watches a year they make. There is no conspiracy with Rolex. It might be the most valuable luxury brand on the planet. They are in a class of their own. I personally prefer GS to Rolex.

Appreciate the tip on releases very much. I always seem to learn about them via the rags after they are long gone. I still think GS uses the LE hype to their advantage in a manner that is off putting to me as a consumer.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

I too grow tired of those constant LE releases. Most of the coolest designs are in short supply. The SBGA211 Snowflake and SBGA413 Shunbun have become icons, but would they have if limited? Wouldn't the SLGA007 Lake Suwa, SBGH167 Whirlpool, and SBGH269 Autumn have reached icon status if general production?

As much fun as I felt with the exclusivity/achievement of securing my SLGA007, I would rather all those pieces be available ongoing. Would've snagged one of these beauties if I had been in the game when it came out. But limited to 900 and the prices now are stupid. It will never reach its full potential for mass appeal.










Come on, Grand Seiko. We know you're listening. Just stick to limited production runs of X per year and keep going as many years as the demand dictates. You're missing out on some serious revenue and growth with all these limited editions.


----------



## egwatchfan

Cward85 said:


> At the risk of being suspended from the forum:


I guess we now know who WON’T be receiving a Christmas gift from grand seiko this year 😂😂😂


----------



## whineboy

Tpp3975 said:


> I agree with most of this. I disagree with your assertion that GS could pull a Rolex. They simply can’t unless they want to go bankrupt. They need to sell watches to survive


Huh? Seiko dwarfs Rolex, they are one of the largest companies in Japan. Timepieces are just a small part of their business. They just made GS ‘independent’ for the optics. 


Having a great time….


----------



## Tpp3975

whineboy said:


> Huh? Seiko dwarfs Rolex, they are one of the largest companies in Japan. Timepieces are just a small part of their business. They just made GS ‘independent’ for the optics.
> 
> 
> Having a great time….


Huh. That’s not my point. I didn’t say Rolex was bigger than seiko. I said Grand Seiko cant pull a Rolex and make demand far exceed supply such that there are multi year waiting lists for every model. Unless they want to be bankrupt by artificially lowering supply (which Rolex doesn’t do btw). Grand Seiko lacks the market cache to pull off anything like that. As does almost every other large watch company on the planet.

Peruse the classifieds sometime and see the dozens upon dozens of GS trading at 50 to 60 percent of retail. Now show me a modern Rolex that you can buy preowned for less than full MSRP. Apples to Oranges.


----------



## TraserH3

Cward85 said:


> At the risk of being suspended from the forum:


Now you may get a call from directly Mr. Seiko himself


----------



## whineboy

Tpp3975 said:


> Huh. That’s not my point. I didn’t say Rolex was bigger than seiko. I said Grand Seiko cant pull a Rolex and make demand far exceed supply such that there are multi year waiting lists for every model. Unless they want to be bankrupt by artificially lowering supply (which Rolex doesn’t do btw). Grand Seiko lacks the market cache to pull off anything like that. As does almost every other large watch company on the planet.
> 
> Peruse the classifieds sometime and see the dozens upon dozens of GS trading at 50 to 60 percent of retail. Now show me a modern Rolex that you can buy preowned for less than full MSRP. Apples to Oranges.


Got it. That is true - the market demand is different. My point is - they have deeper pockets than Rolex if you look to the corporate parent (GS as a separate company is IMHO only for optics, GS is a part of Seiko Holdings) and reduced profits by GS due to artificial scarcity would not necessarily impact the company. 

Regardless, I don’t see GS adopting Rolex’s strategy. 


Having a great time….


----------



## YMII

whineboy said:


> Got it. That is true - the market demand is different. My point is - they have deeper pockets than Rolex if you look to the corporate parent (GS as a separate company is IMHO only for optics, GS is a part of Seiko Holdings) and reduced profits by GS due to artificial scarcity would not necessarily impact the company.
> 
> Regardless, I don’t see GS adopting Rolex’s strategy.
> 
> 
> Having a great time….
> [/QUOTE


Grand Seiko has massively increased production in recent years. The popularity in the USA has increased. But I don't like the model policy with the masses of LE's thrown together as if from a slot machine.
In my opinion they are going the wrong way, a pity.


----------



## Gerald_D

Chrono Brewer said:


> If hype or bottom line was all they cared about, why aren't they pulling a waitlisting stunt a la Rolex so you can't even buy them anywhere except secondary and gray market? Or harping on their dominance at the Neuchâtel Chronometer Trials? I read that as respecting customers and competitors alike. They're above that nonsense. Just focused on doing their best work.


The reason Seiko don't harp on about their dominance at the Neuchatel chronometry trials is because Seiko never dominated the Neuchatel chronometry trials.

Even in 1967 - Seiko's best year - Omega took the top three spots.

And I say that as the guy who owns the Seiko competition movement that came in 7th place that year.


----------



## Tpp3975

whineboy said:


> Got it. That is true - the market demand is different. My point is - they have deeper pockets than Rolex if you look to the corporate parent (GS as a separate company is IMHO only for optics, GS is a part of Seiko Holdings) and reduced profits by GS due to artificial scarcity would not necessarily impact the company.
> 
> Regardless, I don’t see GS adopting Rolex’s strategy.
> 
> 
> Having a great time….


Since I don’t believe Rolex actually employs this strategy, there is nothing for GS to adopt. If anything it is GS attempting to do this by churning out low volume LEs presumably to create hype for their other models. It needs to stop. It’s not good for anyone other than the flippers. And GS knows this. My guess is less than 25 percent of those pieces end up in our hands at msrp.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Gerald_D said:


> The reason Seiko don't harp on about their dominance at the Neuchatel chronometry trials is because Seiko never dominated the Neuchatel chronometry trials.
> 
> Even in 1967 - Seiko's best year - Omega took the top three spots.
> 
> And I say that as the guy who owns the Seiko competition movement that came in 7th place that year.


Seiko took places 4-10 of that year, and then the following year it was called off mid-competition due to “irregularities”. The Swiss stopped the trials until the early 2000s… but only open to Swiss manufacturers. Though in that year it was called off early, Seiko just took their movements to another Swiss trial being held the same week and won among mechanicals, losing only to Swiss quartz. These are not opinions but objective record.

There’s really no question what that says about Seiko’s superior performance or Swiss pride/sore loser mentality. They competed so well that the hosts called off the competition for four decades and only reinstated it with terms excluding them. “We won’t be beat at our own game, so we’ll change the rules.” This is what I refer to as Seiko’s dominance. Not the official Swiss record of who won. And I’m impressed Seiko doesn’t brag on the story.


----------



## matthew P

So back to the watches. 
Looking at the renders the chrono is in front of the other two so it may not be much bigger in person compared to the diver and gmt. 

If the strap is 22mm wide then by my measurements the case is 42mm wide at the bezel and 48mm long with a 30mm dial opening. 
By my very elementary measurement that would make the diver approx two mm smaller at the dial, case and length assuming a 22mm lug width compared to my sbgh229

Those numbers sound about perfect to me.
The overall design feels like an omega bezel font but distinctly GS on the dial.
I’m loving all the design choices in a way I haven’t with any of the previous new divers….. I’m even liking the positioning of the power reserve .
If the wave dial is a LE then hopefully a deep black dial would eventually follow at a more applicable price point?
Either way I could see eventually making the move to a smaller diver.


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## Gerald_D

Chrono Brewer said:


> Seiko took places 4-10 of that year, and then the following year it was called off mid-competition due to “irregularities”. The Swiss stopped the trials until the early 2000s… but only open to Swiss manufacturers. Though in that year it was called off early, Seiko just took their movements to another Swiss trial being held the same week and won among mechanicals, losing only to Swiss quartz. These are not opinions but objective record.


Nope. Wrong again. Be careful who you lecture in such a patronising manner. You might discover they actually know more than you on the subject.

Seiko did not take places 4-10 of that year.

They took places 4, 5, 7 and 8 (all Daini Seikosha). Omega took the rest.

Expanding to the top 20, Omega had 11 of them, Seiko the other 9 (7 from Daini and 2 from Suwa).

You are speaking with someone who - as already mentioned - actually owns one of these watches. Do you not think that perhaps I've actually done some actual research on the subject, rather than blindly accepting anything a marketing department puts out, or that I stumble upon somewhere on the Internet?

Here's 052561 when I took it to Neuchatel, photographed in the observatory grounds, and then a scan of the front page of its certificate. It placed 7th in 1967, although they actually made some mathematical errors in the calculation of its n-score. Had they calculated it correctly, it would have been placed 5th.


----------



## Kakemonster

The chrono is a huge improvement, was never a fan of the large pushers. I am bit disappointed though that they decided to reuse the slga007 dial on the new diver, but hardly surprising. 

I was personally hoping for some new high beats, but seems all of them are spring drive.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Gerald_D said:


> Nope. Wrong again. Be careful who you lecture in such a patronising manner. You might discover they actually know more than you on the subject.
> 
> Seiko did not take places 4-10 of that year.
> 
> They took places 4, 5, 7 and 8 (all Daini Seikosha). Omega took the rest.
> 
> Expanding to the top 20, Omega had 11 of them, Seiko the other 9 (7 from Daini and 2 from Suwa).
> 
> You are speaking with someone who - as already mentioned - actually owns one of these watches. Do you not think that perhaps I've actually done some actual research on the subject, rather than blindly accepting anything a marketing department puts out, or that I stumble upon somewhere on the Internet?
> 
> Here's 052561 when I took it to Neuchatel, photographed in the observatory grounds, and then a scan of the front page of its certificate. It placed 7th in 1967, although they actually made some mathematical errors in the calculation of its n-score. Had they calculated it correctly, it would have been placed 5th.


I assure you I'm not trying to lecture or be patronizing. Upon rereading what I first read a few months ago here and here, it seems I misremembered: it was not at the 1967 Neuchâtel trials that Seiko placed 4-7, but upon going to Geneva in 1968 they ranked 4-7 with the top three positions being Swiss quartz. Thank you for the clarification.

So aside from me misremembering specific ranks and locations either division of Seiko placed, do I have these facts correct? Simplifying by referring to Suwa-Seikosha and Daini-Seikosha collectively as Seiko.

In 1858 the first annual Neuchâtel Observatory trials were held.
In 1963 Seiko was the first Japanese company to compete at Neuchâtel.
Their entries climbed in numerical rank and total places every year.
In 1967 Seiko had their best year at Neuchâtel.
In 1968 the wrist watch category of the Neuchâtel trials were called off mid-competition to reevaluate the rules (but were not held again, breaking 110 years of tradition).
Already being in Switzerland, Seiko instead took their movements to Geneva trials and ranked 4-7. The top three ranks went to Swiss quartz entries. Seiko's top entry performed only slightly below the all-time record set by Omega.
The Geneva trials were also called off after that 1968 competition.
In 2009 the Swiss trials were reinstated with the caveat, “All parts used to build the movement must be made within Europe.”
I dig both Japanese and Swiss work -- intend to get a Jaeger-LeCoultre and Omega in the near future. And so as an enthusiast I genuinely appreciate you clarifying details that went fuzzy in my memory, though they do not change the story. My point is the Swiss stopped over a century of annual competitions mid-trial due to Seiko's performance and only reinstated them 40 years later with a new rule to exclude Seiko.

It reminds me of a child who is a sore loser, so they took their toys and went home... but for forty years. This is what I paraphrased earlier as "dominance at Neuchâtel". Interpret it however you like and please don't take my interpretation personally. Thank you again for clarifying some of the details I misremembered.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

So anyway, wish I had money for that diver so I could Suwa like Schwarzkopf.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Public service announcement: GS had asked the leaked photo to be removed, which the original poster did. Subsequent reposts are now being deleted by mods. So the official WUS stance is not to post it.


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> Public service announcement: GS had asked the leaked photo to be removed, which the original poster did. Subsequent reposts are now being deleted by mods. So the official WUS stance is not to post it.


Crazy that they have that level of influence over a public forum. I guess they advertise?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Tpp3975 said:


> Crazy that they have that level of influence over a public forum. I guess they advertise?


I just read it as diligence on Grand Seiko's part and respect on WUS's part. GS cares, so WUS cares. Probably not arm-twisting so much as WUS would rather maintain a positive relationship with a manufacturer. Not worth losing over a leaked photo.


----------



## bibbibart

Cward85 said:


> At the risk of being suspended from the forum:


Have they suspended you? Just as they removed the attachment?


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> I just read it as diligence on Grand Seiko's part and respect on WUS's part. GS cares, so WUS cares. Probably not arm-twisting so much as WUS would rather maintain a positive relationship with a manufacturer. Not worth losing over a leaked photo.


Seems reasonable. They must really not want those leaks out there.


----------



## Cward85

bibbibart said:


> Have they suspended you? Just as they removed the attachment?


No - GS just very politely asked that I remove the image. I value courtesy and so I went ahead and took it down.... The cat is out of the bag but if that's what they would like and since they asked I respected their wishes in the matter.

Correction: I now realize that WUS took it down - must have been right before I went to take it down... GS Phillipines private messaged me yesterday and I only saw it this morning... In any case all of the above still applies.


----------



## matthew P

All seeems fair and reasonable to me….. I look forward to hearing the official numbers 


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## chatman

Chrono Brewer said:


> I too grow tired of those constant LE releases. Most of the coolest designs are in short supply. The SBGA211 Snowflake and SBGA413 Shunbun have become icons, but would they have if limited? Wouldn't the SLGA007 Lake Suwa, SBGH167 Whirlpool, and SBGH269 Autumn have reached icon status if general production?
> 
> As much fun as I felt with the exclusivity/achievement of securing my SLGA007, I would rather all those pieces be available ongoing. Would've snagged one of these beauties if I had been in the game when it came out. But limited to 900 and the prices now are stupid. It will never reach its full potential for mass appeal.
> 
> View attachment 16465185
> 
> 
> Come on, Grand Seiko. We know you're listening. Just stick to limited production runs of X per year and keep going as many years as the demand dictates. You're missing out on some serious revenue and growth with all these limited editions.


I got one of these SBGH269's back in 2019 as my first GS, having no idea they would do so well on the aftermarket. I'm not sure GS knew either. It's a really weird dial that appeals to a very particular kind of customer. I'm one of those customers - white-dial Patek dress watches are utter snoozers to me, but this thing absolutely exploded out of the showcase, dashing any possibility that I might get something more "iconic" (e.g., boring) line the "snowflake." But given that most GS owners and new-entrants are high on watches like the "snowflake," it's not all that surprising GS would not want to risk making a piece as crazy as the SBGH269 a regular production model. Interestingly, that dial stamp has only been used one other time for the Southeast Asia market - SBGJ241 in green.

As for the SBGA413 (a piece I also own), that one started its life as a limited US release that was hard to get through 2021. It kind of made sense too - pink isn't for everyone, though as it turned out a lot of people really wanted that particular pink dial! And it's a lot easier to get one now since GS widened the release and ramped up production. But as much as that move may have increased sales and sat well with newer collectors, it annoyed a lot of long-term collectors who value exclusivity, and was even a head-scratcher for some of GS's boutique staff. In the end though it won't matter all that much, as the "lion's mane" dial stamp on that watch is being used to death across the GS lineup.

As for the SLGA007 (another one that I own), I think the one could have been done in an unlimited format without GS taking on too much risk. Blue dial, thin case, improved bracelet, and the 9RA2 movement? Yeah, that would've sold like crazy (and in fact, it did!). That said, I'm glad I got one and I'm glad the residuals are strong. We'll see how long that lasts though - that dial stamp is seeing a fair bit of use already, which cuts into the exclusivity of the watches that already have it.


----------



## Loevhagen

GS should try these vertical lines again - _but without the yellow accents_. 250 pieces from 2017 SBGH261 - and in the 62GS case; winner.


----------



## PANICiii

GS are releasing so many nice models these years... It's really too bad that they cost so much.


----------



## egwatchfan

Loevhagen said:


> GS should try these vertical lines again - _but without the yellow accents_. 250 pieces from 2017 SBGH261 - and in the 62GS case; winner.


Yes!!!! Truly stunning. Like the old aqua Terra but so much nicer.


----------



## egwatchfan

PANICiii said:


> GS are releasing so many nice models these years... It's really too bad that they cost so much.


No kidding. They really are becoming out of reach. I have been waiting years for that diver and now I’m afraid I won’t be able to afford it.


----------



## matthew P

Loevhagen said:


> GS should try these vertical lines again - _but without the yellow accents_. 250 pieces from 2017 SBGH261 - and in the 62GS case; winner.


This one was ahead of it’s time 


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## mat76

I didn't know, that GS watching this forum/tread.

So:

*Improve your lousy bracelets, integrate microadjustment on clasp.

Some microbrands can do this on their 500 USD watches, why can you do it on your 5 000 to 10 000 USD watches ?*


----------



## Xhantos

mat76 said:


> I didn't know, that GS watching this forum/tread.
> 
> So:
> 
> *Improve your lousy bracelets, integrate microadjustment on clasp.
> 
> Some microbrands can do this on their 500 USD watches, why can you do it on your 5 000 to 10 000 USD watches ?*


GS might indeed be watching WUS but is it the product development team and the head designer, or juniors/interns at the marketing department or -even more likely- some regional marketing folks  I wonder.


----------



## thewatchidiot

mat76 said:


> I didn't know, that GS watching this forum/tread.
> 
> So:
> 
> *Improve your lousy bracelets, integrate microadjustment on clasp.
> 
> Some microbrands can do this on their 500 USD watches, why can you do it on your 5 000 to 10 000 USD watches ?*


The bracelet on my slga007 is what I’m told is an improvement over previous bracelets. It’s quite comfortable and stylish. No micro adjustment but Czapek did a new clasp for existing bracelets with the micro adjust so maybe gs will too.
Have you tried the new bracelet? It will change your mind on your statement that it needs improvement


----------



## caprichin

thewatchidiot said:


> The bracelet on my slga007 is what I’m told is an improvement over previous bracelets. It’s quite comfortable and stylish. No micro adjustment but Czapek did a new clasp for existing bracelets with the micro adjust so maybe gs will too.
> Have you tried the new bracelet? It will change your mind on your statement that it needs improvement


My bracelet on the slga007 is 100 times better than the one of the SBGA413.


----------



## chatman

caprichin said:


> My bracelet on the slga007 is 100 times better than the one of the SBGA413.


Absolutely. Way, way ahead.


----------



## Dixan

chatman said:


> Absolutely. Way, way ahead.


Like how, exactly, though? Still no micro-adjust. The links themselves weren’t bad already, on the older style bracelets. The end links fit fine, even if there was a tiny bit more room to the sides, compared to modern Omega and Rolex bracelets. It’s really the clasp, and also the sort of nondescript and over used design, with the polished “small links,” or outer edges of the center sections. The newest bracelets even still use this basic design; they’ve just brushed out those sections. 

Fwiw, I, and many others appreciate the more substantial and natural taper of the older bracelets. That’s one of the few things they did not improve upon, with the newer models. The bracelets just don’t taper enough, and look too wide, in my humble opinion.


----------



## chatman

Dixan said:


> Like how, exactly, though? Still no micro-adjust. The links themselves weren’t bad already, on the older style bracelets. The end links fit fine, even if there was a tiny bit more room to the sides, compared to modern Omega and Rolex bracelets. It’s really the clasp, and also the sort of nondescript and over used design, with the polished “small links,” or outer edges of the center sections. The newest bracelets even still use this basic design; they’ve just brushed out those sections.
> 
> Fwiw, I, and many others appreciate the more substantial and natural taper of the older bracelets. That’s one of the few things they did not improve upon, with the newer models. The bracelets just don’t taper enough, and look too wide, in my humble opinion.


There's no rattle in the links, and they're thicker and more substantial. Reduced taper doesn't bug me. I own a number of older GS, Rolex, and Omega watches and the Evolution 9 bracelets are far closer to Rolex quality than anything in the older GS lineup. 

They're not perfect, and no they don't have micro-adjust. Should they have micro-adjust at this price point? Sure. Do they? No. Did I buy one anyway? Yes. Why? Because the overall package is incredible despite the absence of micro-adjust. All of my Rolexes have micro-adjust, and I've *never* used it. So to me, it's not a big deal. +/-0s accuracy over a 3 month period? That's super useful.


----------



## Dixan

chatman said:


> There's no rattle in the links, and they're thicker and more substantial. Reduced taper doesn't bug me. I own a number of older GS, Rolex, and Omega watches and the Evolution 9 bracelets are far closer to Rolex quality than anything in the older GS lineup.
> 
> They're not perfect, and no they don't have micro-adjust. Should they have micro-adjust at this price point? Sure. Do they? No. Did I buy one anyway? Yes. Why? Because the overall package is incredible despite the absence of micro-adjust. All of my Rolexes have micro-adjust, and I've *never* used it. So to me, it's not a big deal. +/-0s accuracy over a 3 month period? That's super useful.


There’s no rattle in any of my Grand Seiko bracelets. There’s only so much improvement that can be made to solid link bracelets with modern screw and pin fastening systems. It’s great you like the newer bracelets more, but to claim they’re a vast improvement on the older bracelets (we’re talking about the very recent, still used bracelets like the one on SBGH295, SBGA413, et al.), is just not reasonable. FWIW, any of my newer Omega and Rolex bracelets are better designed than any Grand Seiko bracelet I’ve handled or owned. Again, the clasp is the key difference. It’s the main point of contact, and they are lacking in both features and finishing, in comparison to other watches in their market segment.


----------



## chatman

Dixan said:


> There’s no rattle in any of my Grand Seiko bracelets. There’s only so much improvement that can be made to solid link bracelets with modern screw and pin fastening systems. It’s great you like the newer bracelets more, but to claim they’re a vast improvement on the older bracelets (we’re talking about the very recent, still used bracelets like the one on SBGH295, SBGA413, et al.), is just not reasonable. FWIW, any of my newer Omega and Rolex bracelets are better designed than any Grand Seiko bracelet I’ve handled or owned. Again, the clasp is the key difference. It’s the main point of contact, and they are lacking in both features and finishing, in comparison to other watches in their market segment.


"Reasonable?" Of course it's reasonable! We're talking watches not physics!

Your argument is basically this - "there's only so much improvement that can occur using system x, so it's impossible to make vast improvements to system x." But improvements in wristwatches are highly subjective to the wearer, and bracelets on the SLGA007 (and other Evolution 9 watches) feel and look like huge improvements over anything on my previous GS'es (yeah, I have an SBGA413 too - garbage bracelet compared to my SLGA007 or any of my other watches really). That's my subjective view but it's hardly a minority perspective. And yet, you proclaim that view is unreasonable because GS didn't improve on something *you* (and others) care about - clasp adjustment.

Guess there must be a lot of unreasonable people out there, huh?


----------



## Dixan

chatman said:


> "Reasonable?" Of course it's reasonable! We're talking watches not physics!
> 
> Your argument is basically this - "there's only so much improvement that can occur using system x, so it's impossible to make vast improvements to system x." But improvements in wristwatches are highly subjective to the wearer, and bracelets on the SLGA007 (and other Evolution 9 watches) feel and look like huge improvements over anything on my previous GS'es (yeah, I have an SBGA413 too - garbage bracelet compared to my SLGA007 or any of my other watches really). That's my subjective view but it's hardly a minority perspective. And yet, you proclaim that view is unreasonable because GS didn't improve on something *you* (and others) care about - clasp adjustment.
> 
> Guess there must be a lot of unreasonable people out there, huh?


Calm down dude. You asserted they’re “way, way ahead,” of the old ones. Truth is, they’re slightly differently shaped, but they’re hardly “vastly better” or greatly improved.

Cheers. Lol. Love GSes. But they need to improve their bracelets, especially their clasps. _In my humble opinion. 🍻 _


----------



## singularityseven

Dixan said:


> but they’re hardly “vastly better” or greatly improved.


Have you seen any of the Series 9 bracelets up close? They are significantly better, and that's coming from someone who has had an SBGA415, SBGA111, SBGX339 and extensive time with an SBGE245. The end link fitment on the 415 was horrendous, and a bit nicer on the other three. But the SLGA005 that I've tried had excellent end link fitment.

The links on the 005 seem to have a good amount of weight to them and feel like they're just more high end, and closer to an oyster bracelet's links. There seems to be a bit of improvement in finishing as well, compared to the other steel GS bracelets I've experienced. The titanium bracelet on the 415 was pretty disappointing in every single aspect, right down to the pins and collars. 

They seem to have improved upon how the clasp sits flush with the rest of the bracelet on the Series 9 stuff too, but I'd say that's a minor observation compared to the rest. But I agree with you that a more functional clasp would definitely elevate the whole product. Hopefully something like that isn't too far off.


----------



## WastedYears

If the watch and bracelet are done right, there's no "need" for a micro-adjustment clasp. The PP Nautilus doesn't need a micro-adjustment clasp to wear incredibly comfortably, and neither does my SLGA007. And I say this as someone whos wrists can swell quite a bit throughout the day.


----------



## duckmcf

I hate to use the R-word, so I won’t, but my GMT-Master II has the 2nd most comfortable band that I’ve ever had. It has a flimsy pressed steel clasp, but it’s low profile, tapers down to ~16mm and has 5 micro, manual adjustment positions. Thick links and a milled clasp look good on a spec sheet, but for comfort you can’t beat an old school Oyster bracelet with loosey goosey links.

Well actually, you can beat an old school Oyster band. The most comfortable band I’ve ever had is made from Horween Shell Cordovan. But that‘s not a fair fight. To paraphrase Budd, from Kill Bill 2, ‘If you're gonna compare a watch band, *you compare it to every other watch band ever made*... that wasn't made with Horween Shell Cordovan’.

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## One-Seventy

mat76 said:


> I didn't know, that GS watching this forum/tread.
> 
> So:
> 
> *Improve your lousy bracelets, integrate microadjustment on clasp.
> 
> Some microbrands can do this on their 500 USD watches, why can you do it on your 5 000 to 10 000 USD watches ?*


I doubt they are, at least, not fomally. It would be bad business if they used this forum, which is a prime example of an echo chamber, as a significant input into the design process.

I can't agree that the bracelets could stand significant improvement - at least the one on mine is extremely comfortable, well made and finished with very well-machined (if tiny) fixings - but I do understand that a lot of buyers on this forum like "speck" when it comes to the clasp. More microadjust is usually better as long as it doesn't get in the way. Personally I dislike the massive Rolex way of doing it, and don't understand - other than the predictable money/flexing/brand aspects - why it's used as a benchmark. IWC's is just as good, much lower profile, and more like many of GS's existing designs.

GS. Excellent for profile and comfort, but not adjustment: 










Rolex. Great for adjustment but clunky and unsophisticated:










IWC. Slim and comfortable with shorter links, shorter clasp, and better articulation:


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> I hate to use the R-word, so I won’t, but my GMT-Master II has the 2nd most comfortable band that I’ve ever had. It has a flimsy pressed steel clasp, but it’s low profile, tapers down to ~16mm and has 5 micro, manual adjustment positions. Thick links and a milled clasp look good on a spec sheet, but for comfort you can’t beat an old school Oyster bracelet with loosey goosey links.
> 
> Well actually, you can beat an old school Oyster band. The most comfortable band I’ve ever had is made from Horween Shell Cordovan. But that‘s not a fair fight. To paraphrase Budd, from Kill Bill 2, ‘If you're gonna compare a watch band, *you compare it to every other watch band ever made*... that wasn't made with Horween Shell Cordovan’.
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel
> View attachment 16473999


I like my Omega AT and Seiko SBGR253 bracelets equally. The former is rigid, the latter looser. Both are equally good fit.



percysmith said:


> I wear AT on bracelet on Mondays and Wednesday, SBGR253 on bracelet on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I like them both equally.


----------



## chatman

Dixan said:


> Calm down dude. You asserted they’re “way, way ahead,” of the old ones. Truth is, they’re slightly differently shaped, but they’re hardly “vastly better” or greatly improved.
> 
> Cheers. Lol. Love GSes. But they need to improve their bracelets, especially their clasps. _In my humble opinion. 🍻 _


If you don't want to annoy people, best to not come out saying they're unreasonable. _In my humble opinion_.


----------



## chatman

singularityseven said:


> Have you seen any of the Series 9 bracelets up close? They are significantly better, and that's coming from someone who has had an SBGA415, SBGA111, SBGX339 and extensive time with an SBGE245. The end link fitment on the 415 was horrendous, and a bit nicer on the other three. But the SLGA005 that I've tried had excellent end link fitment.
> 
> The links on the 005 seem to have a good amount of weight to them and feel like they're just more high end, and closer to an oyster bracelet's links. There seems to be a bit of improvement in finishing as well, compared to the other steel GS bracelets I've experienced. The titanium bracelet on the 415 was pretty disappointing in every single aspect, right down to the pins and collars.
> 
> They seem to have improved upon how the clasp sits flush with the rest of the bracelet on the Series 9 stuff too, but I'd say that's a minor observation compared to the rest. But I agree with you that a more functional clasp would definitely elevate the whole product. Hopefully something like that isn't too far off.


This. The Evolution 9 bracelets are a significant departure from prior products - in a good way. Clasp adjustment would be a nice-to-have for sure, but that doesn't detract from considerable improvements made elsewhere. They are "better" enough that I won't consider buying any more GS'es with the older bracelets, and am even considering selling some of my older pieces.


----------



## Loevhagen

To bad the lug width is a massive 22mm and the EVO9 watch case is so much less elegant than the 62GS case. I'll prioritize the watch case over a bracelet any day.

Hope W&W in March/April has some 62GS releases and not even more EVO9 cases. If EVO9 is the new s**t...well...my wallet will be smiling.


----------



## munichblue

Loevhagen said:


> To bad the lug width is a massive 22mm and the EVO9 watch case is so much less elegant than the 62GS case. I'll prioritize the watch case over a bracelet any day.
> 
> Hope W&W in March/April has some 62GS releases and not even more EVO9 cases. If EVO9 is the new s**t...well...my wallet will be smiling.


My guess is that the models presented at Watches & Wonders will mainly belong to the Sport Collection.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Dixan said:


> Calm down dude. You asserted they’re “way, way ahead,” of the old ones. Truth is, they’re slightly differently shaped, but they’re hardly “vastly better” or greatly improved.
> 
> Cheers. Lol. Love GSes. But they need to improve their bracelets, especially their clasps. _In my humble opinion. 🍻 _


Well said. I own both the original white birch, the SLGA007 and the SBGA413 and also the SBGH271.

I cannot confirm that the Evolution 9 bracelet is "vastly better". Maybe a bit better?

I've actually seen a lot of hate for it. Many of the White Birch Youtube reviewers were of the opinion that while the watch is stunning, the bracelet is terrible. I don't agree with that but if anything, these new bracelets seem to be rather controversial.

I've also had watch buddies skip the white birch solely because the bracelet barely tapers.


----------



## SL1210

mat76 said:


> I didn't know, that GS watching this forum/tread.
> 
> So:
> 
> *Improve your lousy bracelets, integrate microadjustment on clasp.
> 
> Some microbrands can do this on their 500 USD watches, why can you do it on your 5 000 to 10 000 USD watches ?*


I don't like micro adjust. They make the clasp longer and thereby reduce the articulation of the bracelet. I think half links are the way to go.


----------



## One-Seventy

SL1210 said:


> I don't like micro adjust. They make the clasp longer and thereby reduce the articulation of the bracelet. I think half links are the way to go.


IWC manages it just fine! Rolex is not the only answer.


----------



## rdoder

For bracelets with micro-adjustment holes, when my wrist swells, I tend to set the bracelet one hole looser, because it's relatively easy to re-set. So in the long-term, I find bracelets with micro-adjustment holes tend to slide around more on-wrist, and show more case drooping (towards the ground).

Whereas with GS Heritage bracelet with no micro-adjustment holes, since it's not as quick and easy to resize, I leave it be, when it gets a bit too snug. But it also means that the watch tends to not slide around as much, and maybe there's less case drooping on-wrist (at least that's my current experience, given my current wrist size due to current body weight and temperature).

For bracelet with diver's extension, I fiddle with the sizing often. haha

For bracelet with Easylink type extension (and micro-adjustment holes), the same thing happens like bracelets with micro-adjustment holes. I end up sizing it to be okay when my wrist is at its biggest size, but then the watch is a bit too loose when wrist size is at various sizes other than its biggest. I tend to not want to use the Easylink anyway, and prefer to size the bracelet so that I don't end up using it, because I feel it might wear out if I snap it open and close often.

I agree, the curve of the clasp of GS Heritage bracelet (SBGR307) seems to hug my wrist more.

When the Heritage GS bracelet gets to be too snug, since I have multiple watches, I could just wear another one instead, or wear it on my other wrist, which has smaller size.


----------



## SL1210

One-Seventy said:


> IWC manages it just fine! Rolex is not the only answer.
> 
> View attachment 16476785


I guess there are two issues. The first is getting the correct sizing from the get-go. I prefer half-links. The second is wrist swelling. Now you want a quick and non cumbersome method of giving (or reducing) the circumference of the bracelet. That IWC appears to do the trick.


----------



## Whiskey&Watch

SL1210 said:


> I guess there are two issues. The first is getting the correct sizing from the get-go. I prefer half-links. The second is wrist swelling. Now you want a quick and non cumbersome method of giving (or reducing) the circumference of the bracelet. That IWC appears to do the trick.





One-Seventy said:


> IWC manages it just fine! Rolex is not the only answer.
> 
> View attachment 16476785


That IWC is best in the design of a small clasp with a micro-adjustment. GS bracelets come with half-links and if GS adopts the Seiko clasp with two-position adjustments, improves that a bit along with the half-links, bingo! We got a winner. 
These photos of Seiko SNR049 shows a clasp design with two-position adjustments. Images are from the interweb.


----------



## rdoder

You know what I think Seiko/GS does? They don't put everything one could want in one model, because then everyone could just buy that watch, and be done. No, they disperse the desirable features into many models, so you'd have to keep buying and buying, to get what you want. haha


----------



## tfost

rdoder said:


> You know what I think Seiko/GS does? They don't put everything one could want in one model, because then everyone could just buy that watch, and be done. No, they disperse the desirable features into many models, so you'd have to keep buying and buying, to get what you want. haha


Not just Seiko/GS—seems like the plan for many brands


----------



## 007_Omega

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Well said. I own both the original white birch, the SLGA007 and the SBGA413 and also the SBGH271.
> 
> I cannot confirm that the Evolution 9 bracelet is "vastly better". Maybe a bit better?
> 
> I've actually seen a lot of hate for it. Many of the White Birch Youtube reviewers were of the opinion that while the watch is stunning, the bracelet is terrible. I don't agree with that but if anything, these new bracelets seem to be rather controversial.
> 
> I've also had watch buddies skip the white birch solely because the bracelet barely tapers.


I've seen the old, new, and prototype of the green limited Birch in-person and side by side. The bracelet on the watch ruins it for me. It is ugly and garish. What otherwise could've been a versatile all-arounder is ruined by a huge bracelet that doesn't taper. It really takes the class away from the watch.


----------



## Xerxes300

One-Seventy said:


> IWC manages it just fine! Rolex is not the only answer.
> 
> View attachment 16476785


ah! curious... Glashutte Original SeaQ Pano Date has the exact same thing. you press the G and move it in / out about


----------



## munichblue

007_Omega said:


> I've seen the old, new, and prototype of the green limited Birch in-person and side by side. The bracelet on the watch ruins it for me. It is ugly and garish. What otherwise could've been a versatile all-arounder is ruined by a huge bracelet that doesn't taper. It really takes the class away from the watch.


Well, I completely disagree. I find the new design of the Evolution Series very good and especially the bracelet now very fitting to the other proportions of the watch and I’m very happy that it is not so feminine tapered. So neither ugly nor garish. Thus, it really brings class to the Watch.


----------



## Loevhagen

"Feminine tapered". 🤣 Even the new Speedmaster tapers from 20mm to 15mm. Is the new Speedmaster really that "feminine". Oh well - good users have different opinions as there are so many watch designs out there. There's a watch for every person. 🙌


----------



## munichblue

Loevhagen said:


> "Feminine tapered". 🤣 Even the new Speedmaster tapers from 20mm to 15mm. Is the new Speedmaster really that "feminine". Oh well - good users have different opinions as there are so many watch designs out there. There's a watch for every person. 🙌


That is exactly what I wanted to express. There is a general trend towards smaller diameters, which I welcome, but also goes hand in hand with copying the style of the 50s and 60s where watches were much lighter and smaller. And the prime example of this is the new Speedy. And just because Omega decided to go with those dimensions, it's not proof of a nicer or better design. Personally, I find a tapering from 20mm to 15mm feminine, I expect such a graceful strap on a watch for ladies.

And that's why I'm very glad that Grand Seiko has included a clear rule in its design principles. The bracelet is at least half the size of the diameter of the watch. I appreciate Grand Seiko especially so so much for not just running after any fashion trends. This decision was made primarily because a wider bracelet without tapering ensures a more stable fit of the watch on the wrist. Form follows function, that's the thing!

Now you can like that or not. But to describe this design element as ugly and garish I just feel is a bit small minded and disrespectful. Even if you don't like it, but you should respect this decision and acknowledge that many others appreciate it very much. In the end, there are many other offers on the market and everyone can find models that they like.


----------



## andrew.1905

One-Seventy said:


> IWC manages it just fine! Rolex is not the only answer.
> 
> View attachment 16476785


wow never seen the clasp up close but that looks awesome!


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> I’ve looked at a few _Office_ GMT’s, and while some of them are nice, they’re not for me. When the world’s done with Covid I’ll probably start traveling again, and even if I don’t, I love the convenience of a jumping hour hand that always makes me smile when daylight savings changes…





percysmith said:


> Daylight savings is once every six months. I think you hack your watches more than that? Fine, maybe not a Spring Drive (how do you even service that thing down under?) or a Calibre 3285.


Not here to beat a dead horse, but when you live in a place that has _no _daylight saving (Hong Kong) and you're tracking places which have daylight saving (Bermuda for work, US Pacific and AEST for personal), true GMT can be a bummer.

I have four GMT watches - one True (Seiko Sharp) and three Office GMTs (two Hangzhou 6460s and one ETA 2893).
Two are set for office wear and two for personal wear.

Bermuda and US Pacific went forward an hour mid last month.
Adjusting this on the Office GMTs are easy enough - set the GMT hand one hour forward. Adjust the bezel back an hour so AEST (AEST hasn't gone back yet) is still correct.

I have an unexpected problem on the Seiko Sharp GMT.
While I'm not travelling (with no resumption date in sight due to _national policies_), the GMT hand on the Seiko Sharp is set to Pacific Time so I can remember when I can expect responses from posts from my US contacts.
I have to adjust the independent hour hand an hour back, hack the watch and roll the minute hand sixty minutes forward so the GMT hand moves up. Since I was running Watchcheck on the watches I'm wearing, I had to take an interim reading when rolling the minute hand forward so the second offset remains (roughly) consistent.

Problem avoided if I avoid wearing True GMTs locally of course, but that means there's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to GMT.


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> Not here to beat a dead horse, but when you live in a place that has _no _daylight saving (Hong Kong) and you're tracking places which have daylight saving (Bermuda for work, US Pacific and AEST for personal), true GMT can be a bummer.
> 
> I have four GMT watches - one True (Seiko Sharp) and three Office GMTs (two Hangzhou 6460s and one ETA 2893).
> Two are set for office wear and two for personal wear.
> 
> Bermuda and US Pacific went forward an hour mid last month.
> Adjusting this on the Office GMTs are easy enough - set the GMT hand one hour forward. Adjust the bezel back an hour so AEST (AEST hasn't gone back yet) is still correct.
> 
> I have an unexpected problem on the Seiko Sharp GMT.
> While I'm not travelling (with no resumption date in sight due to _national policies_), the GMT hand on the Seiko Sharp is set to Pacific Time so I can remember when I can expect responses from posts from my US contacts.
> I have to adjust the independent hour hand an hour back, hack the watch and roll the minute hand sixty minutes forward so the GMT hand moves up. Since I was running Watchcheck on the watches I'm wearing, I had to take an interim reading when rolling the minute hand forward so the second offset remains (roughly) consistent.
> 
> Problem avoided if I avoid wearing True GMTs locally of course, but that means there's no one-size-fits-all when it comes to GMT.


No worries at all. As an engineer, I beat dead horses for a living… ;-)

Anyway, I totally agree that tracking multiple different zones with a* fixed* bezel, *true* GMT is just not reasonably possible to the point that you’d be far better off with an office GMT.

However, my view is that a *true* GMT, with a *rotating* bezel, smokes all other GMT configurations and is the one-size-fits all solution that you’re looking for. All you do is set the 24hr hand to GMT, know the GMT offset for the zones you need to track (including daylight savings), and spin the bezel at will. No pulling out crowns, no hacking movements, it couldn’t be easier.

There was a while there where I was dealing with companies in Scottsdale, Osaka and London. It didn’t take long to realise that Scottsdale is GMT-7 (no DST), Osaka is GMT+9 (with DST) and London is GMT, or GMT+1 in the northern summer.

I’ve used my 16710 Rolex GMT II this way for ~20 years and it’s why I’m incredulous every time GS releases yet another true GMT with a fixed bezel. The rotating bezel unlocks the power of the true GMT movement.

The only drama with a true GMT is dealing with March the 1st each year, but as you know (and is shown in the video below) it’s hardly an onerous ordeal…






Cheers,
Noel


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> However, my view is that a *true* GMT, with a *rotating* bezel, smokes all other GMT configurations and is the one-size-fits all solution that you’re looking for. All you do is set the 24hr hand to GMT, know the GMT offset for the zones you need to track (including daylight savings), and spin the bezel at will. No pulling out crowns, no hacking movements, it couldn’t be easier.


Yes but I'm too OCD to have a mis-set GMT hand



duckmcf said:


> There was a while there where I was dealing with companies in Scottsdale, Osaka and London. It didn’t take long to realise that Scottsdale is GMT-7 (no DST), Osaka is GMT+9 (with DST) and London is GMT, or GMT+1 in the northern summer.


One of my most embarrassing scheduling mistakes of 2021 is to schedule a meeting with our NZ team at 12 noon my time last November. I thought it'd be a perfectly decent 4pm their time. They wrote back asking if I can reschedule to my next morning, so not to delay them from clocking off. Turns out they've summer time too, which I was totally unaware because all my travels across the Tasman involved skiing - never visited in the summer.



duckmcf said:


> I’ve used my 16710 Rolex GMT II this way for ~20 years and it’s why I’m incredulous every time GS releases yet another true GMT with a fixed bezel. The rotating bezel unlocks the power of the true GMT movement.


Mmmm...don't tempt me. I will agree the 16710 in black bezel is a bit too toolish, but 116710LN would really be a crime magnet and defeat the travel purpose (first comment of Introducing: The Seiko Presage Sharp Edged GMTs (Live Pics) )

I'll love to see Ball's Hurricane Hunters, where you get the independent hour hand GMT _and_ a bezel in 13.8mm height; however, right now it's vapourware:






Engineer III Hurricane Hunters (40mm Ceramic Elapsed Time Bezel)


The Hurricane Hunter features uninterrupted COSC precision. Our in-house modification brings a true GMT with quick-set 12-hr local hand. Discover now.Engineer III Hurricane Hunters (40mm Ceramic Elapsed Time Bezel) -




shop.ballwatch.ch












Ball Engineer III Hurricane Hunters GMT


All, Starting a thread on the new Engineer III Hurricane Hunters GMT. https://shop.ballwatch.ch/en/hurricanehunters Post your pre-order questions and updates here. I pre-ordered the black dial countdown sapphire: It looks like Ball also has a new variation called the Jet-Set GMT...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> Yes but I'm too OCD to have a mis-set GMT hand


I’m not sure what you mean by, “mis-set GMT hand“, could you expand on that a bit?


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> I’m not sure what you mean by, “mis-set GMT hand“, could you expand on that a bit?


If you're tracking two non-local zones (e.g. AEST and Pacific) then the GMT hand will have to be adjusted by forwarding/reversing 60 minutes twice a year.


----------



## One-Seventy

duckmcf said:


> No worries at all. As an engineer, I beat dead horses for a living… ;-)
> 
> Anyway, I totally agree that tracking multiple different zones with a* fixed* bezel, *true* GMT is just not reasonably possible to the point that you’d be far better off with an office GMT.
> 
> However, my view is that a *true* GMT, with a *rotating* bezel, smokes all other GMT configurations and is the one-size-fits all solution that you’re looking for. All you do is set the 24hr hand to GMT, know the GMT offset for the zones you need to track (including daylight savings), and spin the bezel at will. No pulling out crowns, no hacking movements, it couldn’t be easier.
> 
> There was a while there where I was dealing with companies in Scottsdale, Osaka and London. It didn’t take long to realise that Scottsdale is GMT-7 (no DST), Osaka is GMT+9 (with DST) and London is GMT, or GMT+1 in the northern summer.
> 
> I’ve used my 16710 Rolex GMT II this way for ~20 years and it’s why I’m incredulous every time GS releases yet another true GMT with a fixed bezel. The rotating bezel unlocks the power of the true GMT movement.
> 
> The only drama with a true GMT is dealing with March the 1st each year, but as you know (and is shown in the video below) it’s hardly an onerous ordeal…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel


It probably seems incredulous to those few who need to track three time zones, yes . Although GS does have a lot of 2-zone GMTs (many of which don't have marked bezels at all), and it wouldn't hurt to add a couple more "3s" just to have the choice.

The problem I see with the GMT-Master II and many others is that they don't have a fixed scale for the 24h hand, whatever it happens to be set to. When you turn the bezel you lose an instant readout. Of course, you can derive it each time, then add (or subtract - don't forget which!) to (or maybe from) whatever the 24h hand is pointing to. So if the bezel is rotated 1-2-3-4 hr to the right, you add 4 hr from the actual readout to get your third time zone reading. (Or is subtract?)

If I needed to recall a third timezone, I'd be able to manage with a 2-timezone watch and remember one number.


----------



## percysmith

One-Seventy said:


> The problem I see with the GMT-Master II and many others is that they don't have a fixed scale for the 24h hand, whatever it happens to be set to. When you turn the bezel you lose an instant readout. Of course, you can derive it each time, then add (or subtract - don't forget which!) to (or maybe from) whatever the 24h hand is pointing to. So if the bezel is rotated 1-2-3-4 hr to the right, you add 4 hr from the actual readout to get your third time zone reading. (Or is subtract?)


I'm generally able to read a GMT hand as if set to 12 o'clock = 00:00 without a scale. I use the bezel to read my third timezone.

Adding a bezel results in a 1mm diameter and 0.45mm thickness penalty, if Norqain is any guide.









Freedom 60 GMT 40MM - NORQAIN


Introducing a new complication to the Freedom collection, this Freedom 60 GMT has a black dial with a small GMT ring in the centre.




www.norqain.com












NEVEREST GMT 41MM - NORQAIN


This 41mm timepiece is available with a stainless steel bracelet, a flex fabric strap, or a rubber NATO strap with black, white and green stripes. At its heart is the automatic-winding NORQAIN calibre NN20/2, visible through the sapphire glass caseback.




www.norqain.com


----------



## One-Seventy

percysmith said:


> I'm generally able to read a GMT hand as if set to 12 o'clock = 00:00 without a scale. I use the bezel to read my third timezone.
> 
> Adding a bezel results in a 1mm diameter and 0.45mm thickness penalty, if Norqain is any guide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freedom 60 GMT 40MM - NORQAIN
> 
> 
> Introducing a new complication to the Freedom collection, this Freedom 60 GMT has a black dial with a small GMT ring in the centre.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.norqain.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEVEREST GMT 41MM - NORQAIN
> 
> 
> This 41mm timepiece is available with a stainless steel bracelet, a flex fabric strap, or a rubber NATO strap with black, white and green stripes. At its heart is the automatic-winding NORQAIN calibre NN20/2, visible through the sapphire glass caseback.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.norqain.com


Yep, with practice and familiarity you could calculate the unmetered time zone, as you have to on something like this:










The 24h hand is pointing at 14:10, although I had to work it out, because it's not measured by its own scale. I guess if you travel all the time, the 24 hour clock eventually becomes as familiar as the 12.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

I'd love to wear a GMT but never found one thin enough. If they could make a Spring Drive GMT under 12mm I'd be throwing money at them.


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> However, my view is that a *true* GMT, with a *rotating* bezel, smokes all other GMT configurations and is the one-size-fits all solution that you’re looking for. All you do is set the 24hr hand to GMT, know the GMT offset for the zones you need to track (including daylight savings), and spin the bezel at will. No pulling out crowns, no hacking movements, it couldn’t be easier.


Seen this yet?

"Today, Longines is debuting the new Zulu Time, a sub-collection of six watches within the still-young Spirit family that includes a jumping local 12-hour hand – christened by our own James Stacey as the all-important "flyer" GMT functionality, also occasionally known as a "true" GMT. (The alternative being a jumping 24-hour hand, known as a "caller" GMT in Stacey parlance.) 

The movement granting this functionality is the chronometer-certified automatic caliber L844.4 that's outfitted with a silicon hairspring and 72 hours of running autonomy. The watch comes complete with other bells and whistles, including a colored ceramic insert for the bidirectional 24-hour bezel, allowing for a triple time-zone display, a screw-down crown, an engraved screwed steel caseback, and a sapphire crystal. Offered in an evenly proportioned 42mm × 13.9mm stainless steel case with your choice of a matte black, a sunray blue, or a sandblasted anthracite (read: grey) dial, on either a matching steel bracelet for $3,050, or a leather strap for $2,950 – an increase of only $400 from the standard three-handed 40mm stainless steel Longines Spirit."

I'm definitely keeping my powder dry for this.









Introducing: Longines' Latest Is A 42mm 'True' GMT That Starts Under $3k (Live Pics & Pricing)


Longines is putting the wings back on its famous Winged Hourglass logo.




www.hodinkee.com


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> Seen this yet?
> 
> "Today, Longines is debuting the new Zulu Time, a sub-collection of six watches within the still-young Spirit family that includes a jumping local 12-hour hand – christened by our own James Stacey as the all-important "flyer" GMT functionality, also occasionally known as a "true" GMT. (The alternative being a jumping 24-hour hand, known as a "caller" GMT in Stacey parlance.)
> 
> The movement granting this functionality is the chronometer-certified automatic caliber L844.4 that's outfitted with a silicon hairspring and 72 hours of running autonomy. The watch comes complete with other bells and whistles, including a colored ceramic insert for the bidirectional 24-hour bezel, allowing for a triple time-zone display, a screw-down crown, an engraved screwed steel caseback, and a sapphire crystal. Offered in an evenly proportioned 42mm × 13.9mm stainless steel case with your choice of a matte black, a sunray blue, or a sandblasted anthracite (read: grey) dial, on either a matching steel bracelet for $3,050, or a leather strap for $2,950 – an increase of only $400 from the standard three-handed 40mm stainless steel Longines Spirit."
> 
> I'm definitely keeping my powder dry for this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Introducing: Longines' Latest Is A 42mm 'True' GMT That Starts Under $3k (Live Pics & Pricing)
> 
> 
> Longines is putting the wings back on its famous Winged Hourglass logo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hodinkee.com


Have I seen it? Too right I have; it’s gorgeous.

It’s almost perfect, it’s a tad too thick and it’s diameter is a hair too large, and what’s with the 5 stars on the dial? They’re reminiscent of a tinpot dictator who crowned himself a 5 star general, but really, now I’m just quibbling. I can’t decide if I prefer the matt black or the gloss blue.

That said, I’m still going to hold out for a GS that has similar dimensions. My guess is that sooner or later GS will make a rotating bezel GMT based on either the new 9RAn Spring Drive movement or a SBGN005 sized quartz movement. I’ll buy whichever GS makes first, assuming there’s no other deal breakers festooned on it.

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> That said, I’m still going to hold out for a GS that has similar dimensions. My guess is that sooner or later GS will make a rotating bezel GMT based on either the new 9RAn Spring Drive movement or a SBGN005 sized quartz movement. I’ll buy whichever GS makes first, assuming there’s no other deal breakers festooned on it.


YMMV. My "shut up and take my money" factors:

1. No one can fix Spring Drive locally here. It has to goto Japan for X months for any service. A31 is 2893 based so I'm confident my watchmaker here can take care of it.

2. Travelling with Zaratsu polishing? Trust those SNP security people in SYD won't bang your personal items tray extra hard when they see a GS?


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> It’s almost perfect, it’s a tad too thick and it’s diameter is a hair too large, and what’s with the 5 stars on the dial? They’re reminiscent of a tinpot dictator who crowned himself a 5 star general, but really, now I’m just quibbling. I can’t decide if I prefer the matt black or the gloss blue.


It's 42x13.9x49mm. Comparable to 42.2x13.7x49.2mm Seiko Sharp GMT. I don't find the Seiko Sharp GMT big (i.e. it comfortably slides under my shirt sleeves), the only concerns I have with Zulu GMT is 1. Is the bezel going to get in the way (Seiko Sharp GMT bezel is fixed and sloped) and 2. The Zulu's lugs doesn't slope down - problem?

I'm not a fan of five stars motifs (ahem!). But to Longines it means Chronometer Introducing: The Longines Spirit 42mm Automatic Chronometer Chronograph


----------



## One-Seventy

duckmcf said:


> Have I seen it? Too right I have; it’s gorgeous.
> 
> It’s almost perfect, it’s a tad too thick and it’s diameter is a hair too large, and what’s with the 5 stars on the dial? They’re reminiscent of a tinpot dictator who crowned himself a 5 star general, but really, now I’m just quibbling. I can’t decide if I prefer the matt black or the gloss blue.
> 
> That said, I’m still going to hold out for a GS that has similar dimensions. My guess is that sooner or later GS will make a rotating bezel GMT based on either the new 9RAn Spring Drive movement or a SBGN005 sized quartz movement. I’ll buy whichever GS makes first, assuming there’s no other deal breakers festooned on it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel


Compared to the size of competitor watches, it's not actually that huge. Compared to the size of the weeny 25x4mm ETA movement inside, and considering the rather pedestrian 100m WR, it definitely is! Still, big watches are in, and thick is ok (as long as it's not a Grand Seiko, of course. They're not allowed to do "thicc").


----------



## percysmith

One-Seventy said:


> Compared to the size of the weeny 25x4mm ETA movement inside


Where did you get the size of the A31 GMT movement?


----------



## SISL

I'm not going to buy the Longines, but I certainly hope it lights a fire under GS's behind.

The Rolex GMT is 12mm thick. Everybody says Rolex aren't really that innovative or technically advanced, but we're yet to see a true GMT sport luxury with this combo of performances & convenience.


----------



## BarracksSi

SISL said:


> I'm not going to buy the Longines, but I certainly hope it lights a fire under GS's behind.
> 
> *The Rolex GMT is 12mm thick.* Everybody says Rolex aren't really that innovative or technically advanced, but we're yet to see a true GMT sport luxury with this combo of performances & convenience.


Yessir. For whatever reason, the Rolex BLNR that I tried on at a local shop felt very nice on-wrist and not bulky at all, and more palatable than either the SBGE201 (which kinda gets a pass as it's sporty-looking) or the SBGE205 (which annoyed me more as I think it's a business-class watch).


----------



## One-Seventy

percysmith said:


> Where did you get the size of the A31 GMT movement?


Watchbase. ETA A31 is a reworking of the ETA 2892, shares the same dimensions. It's size is given to the nearest 0.1mm as 25.6mm x 4.1mm, so strictly I should have rounded up to 26mm, not that it makes a great deal of difference .

You can see the size of the movement from where the date window resides, some distance from the rehaut. 

For comparison here is another 42mm watch - a Steelfish GMT from 2004 or so - with the same movement dimensions. But here, the broad diver's bezel and generous rehaut to accommodate the 24h scale means the date numerals are placed concentrically alongside the other hour markers:


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> YMMV. My "shut up and take my money" factors:
> 
> 1. No one can fix Spring Drive locally here. It has to goto Japan for X months for any service. A31 is 2893 based so I'm confident my watchmaker here can take care of it.
> 
> 2. Travelling with Zaratsu polishing? Trust those SNP security people in SYD won't bang your personal items tray extra hard when they see a GS?


Are you sure that a Spring Drive can’t be serviced by GS locally? I’m pretty sure that the chrono SD has to go to Japan, but a more standard SD isn’t all that complicated. Sure, the electronics is complex, but from a service point of view, it’s just a plug in module. Either way, I’m ok with long service wait times. It took from July 31 to February 24 for my Rolex to get serviced (mean old Covid), I just wore my other watches.

Yes, airport security is fun. I usually don’t take my watch off. Most of the time it’s not an issue, if it is, it goes into it’s own tray. In any case, I reckon I beat up my watches better than an airport security guard ever could…


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> It's 42x13.9x49mm. Comparable to 42.2x13.7x49.2mm Seiko Sharp GMT. I don't find the Seiko Sharp GMT big (i.e. it comfortably slides under my shirt sleeves), the only concerns I have with Zulu GMT is 1. Is the bezel going to get in the way (Seiko Sharp GMT bezel is fixed and sloped) and 2. The Zulu's lugs doesn't slope down - problem?
> 
> I'm not a fan of five stars motifs (ahem!). But to Longines it means Chronometer Introducing: The Longines Spirit 42mm Automatic Chronometer Chronograph


I guess the only way to know for sure is to try the watch on in a boutique and work out if your concerns are justified or not. Personally, I’m a big fan of dive style rotating bezels; for me, they work as the watch’s bumper bar, which can easily (if not cheaply) be replaced.


----------



## digivandig

duckmcf said:


> Are you sure that a Spring Drive can’t be serviced by GS locally? I’m pretty sure that the chrono SD has to go to Japan, but a more standard SD isn’t all that complicated. Sure, the electronics is complex, but from a service point of view, it’s just a plug in module. Either way, I’m ok with long service wait times. It took from July 31 to February 24 for my Rolex to get serviced (mean old Covid), I just wore my other watches.


I'd much rather suffer through the inconvenience of shipping my GS to Seiko Japan for service than have anyone in Seiko USA lay hands on it. One is a factory full of Japanese craftsmen and the other is a CS center in New Jersey.


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> Are you sure that a Spring Drive can’t be serviced by GS locally? I’m pretty sure that the chrono SD has to go to Japan, but a more standard SD isn’t all that complicated. Sure, the electronics is complex, but from a service point of view, it’s just a plug in module. Either way, I’m ok with long service wait times. It took from July 31 to February 24 for my Rolex to get serviced (mean old Covid), I just wore my other watches.


Months, from HK. There is a service centre here but they can't do much:


----------



## duckmcf

digivandig said:


> I'd much rather suffer through the inconvenience of shipping my GS to Seiko Japan for service than have anyone in Seiko USA lay hands on it. One is a factory full of Japanese craftsmen and the other is a CS center in New Jersey.


If a watch needed the full Zaratsu refinishing, then sure, I’d ask for it to be sent to Japan. For a basic service, and if they do it in Australia, I’d be more than happy for Aussie locals to service it.

In any case, on its way back from Japan it could get smashed or stolen somewhere along the line. Basically, nothing is risk free…


----------



## digivandig

duckmcf said:


> If a watch needed the full Zaratsu refinishing, then sure, I’d ask for it to be sent to Japan. For a basic service, and if they do it in Australia, I’d be more than happy for Aussie locals to service it.
> 
> In any case, on its way back from Japan it could get smashed or stolen somewhere along the line. Basically, nothing is risk free…


I didn't realize you are from Australia. I don't know what kind of reputation Seiko Aus has, but I wouldn't trust Seiko USA in NJ to service an SNK, let alone a GS. I doubt anyone in the US is trained to service a spring drive, and even if they are, they are probably the least experienced spring drive servicers in the world.


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> If a watch needed the full Zaratsu refinishing, then sure, I’d ask for it to be sent to Japan. For a basic service, and if they do it in Australia, I’d be more than happy for Aussie locals to service it.
> 
> In any case, on its way back from Japan it could get smashed or stolen somewhere along the line. Basically, nothing is risk free…


Which part of AU? JOMW has a review of the service centre in Sydney QVB.

My watchmaker says he’s been to the HK service centre and there’s one sad tin plate wheel “in the fire staircase”. Not sure if they’d attempt to refinish locally.


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> Which part of AU? JOMW has a review of the service centre in Sydney QVB.
> 
> My watchmaker says he’s been to the HK service centre and there’s one sad tin plate wheel “in the fire staircase”. Not sure if they’d attempt to refinish locally.


I’ll have to look up that JOMW video, sound interesting, but anyway I’m in Melbourne. 

There’s Seiko boutique here that also sells, more or less, the full suite of Grand Seiko models. They have a service centre just behind the main boutique that looks like it’s well staffed, but I agree, while I wouldn’t get a GS refinished anywhere but Japan, I’d be happy for them to service any GS that they’re trained / certified to service.


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> I’ll have to look up that JOMW video, sound interesting, but anyway I’m in Melbourne.


This one


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> This one


Well that’s interesting. The price for the service is very reasonable, but the multiple delays weren’t great and it would’ve been nice for them to offer to refinish the case and bracelet, naturally at a price.

For context around service costs, I recently had my Rolex serviced (at the Rolex Melbourne service centre) which around Au$1,400, but that included a new crystal, bezel and an extra link as well as refinishing the case and bracelet to the point that it’s almost indistinguishable from new. That took around 7 months, because, Covid…

Also, 18(ish) months ago I had my Speedmaster Pro serviced (at the Omega Melbourne service centre) which cost around Au$1,100, which was also refinished and came back indistinguishable from new. From memory, this only took 6 weeks as we weren’t in Covid lockdown at the time.

I guess what I’m saying is, it’s pay-to-play, and I’m not put off by a four digit service bill plus a multi-month wait every 10(ish) years.

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## aalin13

duckmcf said:


> I’ll have to look up that JOMW video, sound interesting, but anyway I’m in Melbourne.
> 
> There’s Seiko boutique here that also sells, more or less, the full suite of Grand Seiko models. They have a service centre just behind the main boutique that looks like it’s well staffed, but I agree, while I wouldn’t get a GS refinished anywhere but Japan, I’d be happy for them to service any GS that they’re trained / certified to service.


I’m also in Melbourne and had my MM300 sent to Japan for service by the Seiko boutique. The staff there said all mechanical and SD GS will need to be sent to Japan for servicing, whereas quartz GS can have the battery changed in the boutique. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## duckmcf

aalin13 said:


> I’m also in Melbourne and had my MM300 sent to Japan for service by the Seiko boutique. The staff there said all mechanical and SD GS will need to be sent to Japan for servicing, whereas quartz GS can have the battery changed in the boutique.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, that’s really good to know…


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> For context around service costs, I recently had my Rolex serviced (at the Rolex Melbourne service centre) which around Au$1,400, but that included a new crystal, bezel and an extra link as well as refinishing the case and bracelet to the point that it’s almost indistinguishable from new. That took around 7 months, because, Covid…


And it now costs more than A$20,000 to replace. Or will fetch A$20,000 for a thief. Tool anymore?

You’re a braver man than me if you’re seriously thinking about travelling with it anymore. Here to Hong Kong, no. Richmond or Carlton? I’ll have to think about it.


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> And it now costs more than A$20,000 to replace. Or will fetch A$20,000 for a thief. Tool anymore?
> 
> You’re a braver man than me if you’re seriously thinking about travelling with it anymore. Here to Hong Kong, no. Richmond or Carlton? I’ll have to think about it.
> 
> View attachment 16524655


…and that’s why I’m here in the GS forum. I definitely don’t travel internationally with my GMT anymore and as soon as GS makes a watch with the same(ish) dimensions, and capability, I’ll retire the GMT from daily rotation.

I know I’ve said it before but I really like the SBGN005 (HAQ), if it had a rotating bezel, I’d buy it in a flash…

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> I know I’ve said it before but I really like the SBGN005 (HAQ), if it had a rotating bezel, I’d buy it in a flash…


Don’t buy a watch that doesn’t do all you want to do. Unfortunately I don’t see a GS quartz GMT with a bezel in the horizon.

Have you looked at the quartz Omega Seamaster Professionals with jumping hour hand?

It has bezel and jumping hour hand. The only thing it doesn’t have is GMT hand. But if you don’t need three time zones then you don’t need the GMT hand, once you have jumping hour and a bezel. I looked at it before the Longines Zulu:









Seamaster 300 M Quartz - 212.30.41.61.01.001 | OMEGA®


Discover the Seamaster 300 M Quartz Watch - 212.30.41.61.01.001!




www.omegawatches.com










Omega Seamaster 21230416101001 | Ref. 21230416101001 Watches on Chrono24


Find low prices for 16 Omega ref. 21230416101001 watches on Chrono24. Compare deals and buy a ref. 21230416101001 watch.




chrono24.app





I was hoping to skip down to the Seiko/GS boutique while waiting for my takeaway dinner, I arrived too late:


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> Don’t buy a watch that doesn’t do all you want to do. Unfortunately I don’t see a GS quartz GMT with a bezel in the horizon.
> 
> Have you looked at the quartz Omega Seamaster Professionals with jumping hour hand?
> 
> It has bezel and jumping hour hand. The only thing it doesn’t have is GMT hand. But if you don’t need three time zones then you don’t need the GMT hand, once you have jumping hour and a bezel. I looked at it before the Longines Zulu:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seamaster 300 M Quartz - 212.30.41.61.01.001 | OMEGA®
> 
> 
> Discover the Seamaster 300 M Quartz Watch - 212.30.41.61.01.001!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.omegawatches.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Omega Seamaster 21230416101001 | Ref. 21230416101001 Watches on Chrono24
> 
> 
> Find low prices for 16 Omega ref. 21230416101001 watches on Chrono24. Compare deals and buy a ref. 21230416101001 watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chrono24.app
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping to skip down to the Seiko/GS boutique while waiting for my takeaway dinner, I arrived too late:
> 
> View attachment 16525164


Oh yes, I’m familiar with the Seamasters that have the time-zone function / jumping hour hand. There’s a few automatic Master Chonometer models that have it too. I like them a lot, but while I don’t really need a 24hr hand anymore (because iPhone), I just want it. Ultimately, if I was prepared to compromise, I’d have already bought a SBGB005 (or more likely the SBGN001 when I first saw one in the Melbourne boutique 5ish years ago.

Basically, I’m deep into my 50’s and I’m done buying watches that aren’t quite what I want. That said, the Longines Zulu that we were talking about a few days ago is mighty close, so if GS doesn’t make a watch that I want to buy in the next few years, I might just get a Zulu as a placeholder until they do…

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> That said, the Longines Zulu that we were talking about a few days ago is mighty close, so if GS doesn’t make a watch that I want to buy in the next few years, I might just get a Zulu as a *placeholder *until they do…


I second, third and fourth that idea!


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> There’s a few automatic Master Chonometer models that have it too.


The only one with both jumping hour hand and a bezel is Planet Ocean 43.5mm right? I've been looking at it for local summer weekend driver, but it's not a GADA or travel watch due to size...


----------



## Commisar

duckmcf said:


> Have I seen it? Too right I have; it’s gorgeous.
> 
> It’s almost perfect, it’s a tad too thick and it’s diameter is a hair too large, and what’s with the 5 stars on the dial? They’re reminiscent of a tinpot dictator who crowned himself a 5 star general, but really, now I’m just quibbling. I can’t decide if I prefer the matt black or the gloss blue.
> 
> That said, I’m still going to hold out for a GS that has similar dimensions. My guess is that sooner or later GS will make a rotating bezel GMT based on either the new 9RAn Spring Drive movement or a SBGN005 sized quartz movement. I’ll buy whichever GS makes first, assuming there’s no other deal breakers festooned on it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel


Knowing GS the Spring drive will have no lume.

They have rotating bezel SD GMTs but they are quite large.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Commisar

Whiskey&Watch said:


> That IWC is best in the design of a small clasp with a micro-adjustment. GS bracelets come with half-links and if GS adopts the Seiko clasp with two-position adjustments, improves that a bit along with the half-links, bingo! We got a winner.
> These photos of Seiko SNR049 shows a clasp design with two-position adjustments. Images are from the interweb.
> View attachment 16480306
> View attachment 16480308
> 
> View attachment 16480307


Agreed, this needs to end up on every GS bracelet/clasp. Plus 2 half links of course.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Commisar

One-Seventy said:


> IWC manages it just fine! Rolex is not the only answer.
> 
> View attachment 16476785


Can't wait for this particular patent to expire 

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## percysmith

Commisar said:


> Knowing GS the Spring drive will have no lume.
> 
> They have rotating bezel SD GMTs but they are quite large.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


Something only certain GS has but Longines Zulu definitely has. Not sure whether deal-breaker to @duckmcf but definitely dealbreaker or very heavily desired for me.


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> Something only certain GS has but Longines Zulu definitely has. Not sure whether deal-breaker to @duckmcf but definitely dealbreaker or very heavily desired for me.


From what I can tell the GS design language seems to be that the sport models get lume, while the Evo9 and Heritage collections don’t. To date, it’s only the Sport models that get rotating bezels, so if GS makes a new GMT with a rotating bezel, it’ll likely have lume.


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> From what I can tell the GS design language seems to be that the sport models get lume, while the Evo9 and Heritage collections don’t. To date, it’s only the Sport models that get rotating bezels, so if GS makes a new GMT with a rotating bezel, it’ll likely have lume.


Given 2021 recent release history, probably one line dress (seasons) and one line sports (SBGM245/SBGM247)?


----------



## munichblue

Only two days till Watches & Wonders and my new dream Grand Seiko diver….🙂


----------



## One-Seventy

duckmcf said:


> Basically, I’m deep into my 50’s and I’m done buying watches that aren’t quite what I want. That said, the Longines Zulu that we were talking about a few days ago is mighty close, so if GS doesn’t make a watch that I want to buy in the next few years, I might just get a Zulu as a placeholder until they do…


If you're done buying watches you don't want, why buy a placeholder watch? Also if you're done travelling internationally, a traveller-GMT adjustment method is pretty useless; the 24h-quickset type would be more useful assuming you have much need for a 24h hand at all. (Well, it's handy saving two minutes a year for twice-annual timezone changes, if you even have them) 

So I don't see much point in the Longines Zulu, but there are dozens of alternatives that would do better. Christopher Ward, Oris...


----------



## Cward85

munichblue said:


> Only two days till Watches & Wonders and my new dream Grand Seiko diver….🙂


My AD has already put me down as number one on the list for that diver. 😁


----------



## TraserH3

Cward85 said:


> My AD has already put me down as number one on the list for that diver. 😁


So what is the rumor for "that diver"? is it 41mm using new hi beat or new spring drive cal?


----------



## Joe90

TraserH3 said:


> So what is the rumor for "that diver"? is it 41mm using new hi beat or new spring drive cal?


From the photo I remember seeing, it was a spring drive.
I’m not sure it was easy to tell diameter from that picture though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## munichblue

TraserH3 said:


> So what is the rumor for "that diver"? is it 41mm using new hi beat or new spring drive cal?


41mm, Spring Drive, Lake Suwa dial. Just perfect.


----------



## duckmcf

One-Seventy said:


> If you're done buying watches you don't want, why buy a placeholder watch? Also if you're done travelling internationally, a traveller-GMT adjustment method is pretty useless; the 24h-quickset type would be more useful assuming you have much need for a 24h hand at all. (Well, it's handy saving two minutes a year for twice-annual timezone changes, if you even have them)
> 
> So I don't see much point in the Longines Zulu, but there are dozens of alternatives that would do better. Christopher Ward, Oris...


Yes, you’re right, it’s unlikely that I’ll buy a Zulu, but I didn’t say that I’m done traveling internationally. What I said was, “I definitely don’t travel internationally with my (Rolex) GMT anymore…”

It’s like this, years ago I had an Aussie Valiant Six Pack Charger. It was a brutal muscle car and I drove everywhere, even up to the ski fields. Back then it cost me $6k, time passed and the value of Aussie muscle cars rose to the point that they were too valuable to daily as they were very easy to steal, so I sold it. It’s the same problem I have with my Rolex GMT, if it was still worth what I paid for it, I’d still daily it, but they’re now so conspicuous to low-life’s it’s come to the point that it’s not worth the risk.

Everyone poo-poos Rolex, for one reason or another, but the 16710 was released in 1989 and it, and then its successors, have yet to be bettered, which I guess is why they’ve gone up so high in value, while the Explorer II hasn’t.

Anyway, hopefully GS will pull a 40mm x 12mm rabbit out of their hat at Watches and Wonders later this week, but somehow I doubt it.

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## Chrono Brewer

TraserH3 said:


> So what is the rumor for "that diver"? is it 41mm using new hi beat or new spring drive cal?





Joe90 said:


> From the photo I remember seeing, it was a spring drive.
> I’m not sure it was easy to tell diameter from that picture though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Saved a copy of the leak but won't repost as mods were taking it down at Grand Seiko's request. I don't know anything to infer the diameter but it's Spring Drive, PR indicator on the front, and "5 Days" on the dial. The only 5-day SD movements are 9RA5 (PR front) and 9RA2 (PR back), so looks like 9RA5. And the only model we've seen with that movement is SLGA001. Look up that model and imagine a dial like SLGA007 but darker navy. That's assuming they haven't adjusted specs since the leak.


----------



## egwatchfan

munichblue said:


> Only two days till Watches & Wonders and my new dream Grand Seiko diver….🙂


Well you sure are optimistic 😂😂


----------



## egwatchfan

munichblue said:


> 41mm, Spring Drive, Lake Suwa dial. Just perfect.


My personal opinion of course, but the thickness dimension is an absolutely critical factor toward whether or not this piece is perfect. I hope it’s perfect. But I’m not holding my breath. Plus then there’s the clasp…. We shall see soon enough!!!!


----------



## Cward85

Joe90 said:


> From the photo I remember seeing, it was a spring drive.
> I’m not sure it was easy to tell diameter from that picture though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Unfortunately for those wanting a 41mm I think they'll be disappointed - it looks like the same case as the SBGA461/463. Personally I love that case.


----------



## Commisar

Chrono Brewer said:


> Saved a copy of the leak but won't repost as mods were taking it down at Grand Seiko's request. I don't know anything to infer the diameter but it's Spring Drive, PR indicator on the front, and "5 Days" on the dial. The only 5-day SD movements are 9RA5 (PR front) and 9RA2 (PR back), so looks like 9RA5. And the only model we've seen with that movement is SLGA001. Look up that model and imagine a dial like SLGA007 but darker navy. That's assuming they haven't adjusted specs since the leak.


Ohh nice 

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## TraserH3

egwatchfan said:


> My personal opinion of course, but the thickness dimension is an absolutely critical factor toward whether or not this piece is perfect. I hope it’s perfect. But I’m not holding my breath. Plus then there’s the clasp…. We shall see soon enough!!!!


ha yeah I was going to say the stamped sheet metal clasp is another thing…


----------



## CydeWeys

New models for W&W (most were discussed earlier in this thread):

SLGA015 -- Seems likely to be the 40-41mm 5-day dark diver discussed earlier.
SBGC249 & SBGC251 -- Two new spring drive chronograph GMTs
SBGE283 & SBGE285 -- Two new spring drive GMTs. Were these the sports ones?
Some grand masterpiece 8-day handwind watch
Kodo constant force tourbillon (!!!!) -- is this the T0 come to fruition?!


----------



## ink3027

If the rumored diver has reduced dimensions and the beautiful Lake Suwa dial but the same old diver clasp I'm going to throw a child-like tantrum.


----------



## wrxdev

CydeWeys said:


> New models for W&W (most were discussed earlier in this thread):
> 
> SLGA015 -- Seems likely to be the 40-41mm 5-day dark diver discussed earlier.
> SBGC249 & SBGC251 -- Two new spring drive chronograph GMTs
> SBGE283 & SBGE285 -- Two new spring drive GMTs. Were these the sports ones?
> Some grand masterpiece 8-day handwind watch
> Kodo constant force tourbillon (!!!!) -- is this the T0 come to fruition?!


Excited for the spring drive GMTs in the Elegance Collection. Hopefully, they're thinner with a rotating bezel and 41mm or less.


----------



## Commisar

wrxdev said:


> Excited for the spring drive GMTs in the Elegance Collection. Hopefully, they're thinner with a rotating bezel and 41mm or less.


I hope so too but I've yet to see a sub 44mm SD GMT with a rotating bezel from Seiko or GS.

Same for a sub 43mm SD diver from GS.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## egwatchfan

ink3027 said:


> If the rumored diver has reduced dimensions and the beautiful Lake Suwa dial but the same old diver clasp I'm going to throw a child-like tantrum.


Couldn’t have said it any better 😂😂😂
Ummm…. Why do I think a tantrum is in my near future??? 😀😀


----------



## Gerald_D

I don't think SLGA015 is going to be the small diver everyone has been hoping for.

From the earlier photos that were published in error (they were not leaked), you can measure the relative size of SLGA015 against SLGA001 by using the distance from the center of the dial to the center of the date wheel. This puts SLGA015 at a case size of 46mm +/-1mm margin of error due to the low resolution image available.


----------



## ink3027

egwatchfan said:


> Couldn’t have said it any better 😂😂😂
> Ummm…. Why do I think a tantrum is in my near future??? 😀😀


GS seems to enjoy our tantrums 😔😂

Here's to another 44mm x 15mm diver with a subpar clasp, ha.


----------



## lamborghini

How do these new releases work? So first day of W&W the new models will be up for sale online and the boutiques?


----------



## egwatchfan

Gerald_D said:


> I don't think SLGA015 is going to be the small diver everyone has been hoping for.
> 
> From the earlier photos that were published in error (they were not leaked), you can measure the relative size of SLGA015 against SLGA001 by using the distance from the center of the dial to the center of the date wheel. This puts SLGA015 at a case size of 46mm +/-1mm margin of error due to the low resolution image available.


You very well could be right. Or, that could be a digital rendering and/or composite that is not done to scale. I guess we’ll know soon enough!!!


----------



## Gerald_D

egwatchfan said:


> You very well could be right. Or, that could be a digital rendering and/or composite that is not done to scale. I guess we’ll know soon enough!!!


No, it couldn’t be that. 

The two watches have the same movement, so the distance from the center of the dial to the center of the date wheel will be the same.

Since we know the size of the SLGA001 case, the size of the SLGA015 case can be directly mathematically derived. All you need are pixel counts in images of both watches (a) from the center of the dial to the center of the date wheel, and (b) the case width.

The relative scale of the two images is irrelevant.


----------



## quasitime

Is this new? 









SBGE277G | Grand Seiko


A Spring Drive GMT watch with a rock-pattern dial




www.grand-seiko.com














Boutique:









Grand Seiko Spring Drive GMT Black Sapphire SBGE277 Sport Watch


Grand Seiko Spring Drive SBGE277 watch with sapphire bezel, GMT, and black dial available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!




grandseikoboutique.us


----------



## percysmith

quasitime said:


> Is this new?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SBGE277G | Grand Seiko
> 
> 
> A Spring Drive GMT watch with a rock-pattern dial
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.grand-seiko.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16531086
> 
> 
> Boutique:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Spring Drive GMT Black Sapphire SBGE277 Sport Watch
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Spring Drive SBGE277 watch with sapphire bezel, GMT, and black dial available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grandseikoboutique.us


Only two hours ago SBGE277 | Collections | Grand Seiko

But just looks like another dial/colourway? Same movement (9R66), same dimensions (44mm x 14.7mm).


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

TraserH3 said:


> So what is the rumor for "that diver"? is it 41mm using new hi beat or new spring drive cal?


Spring Drive 5 days.


----------



## NightScar

__
http://instagr.am/p/Cbt21hPOWDh/


__
http://instagr.am/p/Cbt2CTZuLNU/


__
http://instagr.am/p/Cbt2IjZOA-g/


----------



## ts298

The evolution 9 GMTs are interesting, but the PR is on the front? Curious about the thickness… and expecting prices over $10k.


----------



## osmin

cant see the instagram links


----------



## lamborghini

NightScar said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Cbt21hPOWDh/
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Cbt2CTZuLNU/
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Cbt2IjZOA-g/


Exciting, thank god the giant pushers are gone on the chronographs! I’m feeling the new GMT with the snowflake dial for sure. Seems like GS is entering the big boy arena with the big other two show stoppers and the new diver is pretty awesome at 43” but is expensive!

Good release overall


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Did anyone take Screenshots before they deleted it? 

I didn't manage to read all the comments and text but at quick glance it seems that this diver isn't going to be limited after all which I'm quite happy about. 

I only saved 1 pic:


----------



## ahonobaka

Chuckling that they released the media a bit too early again after the leaks a while back! Wasn't expecting the Snowflake GMT, but I'm definitely still eyeing the black GMT among the Evo 9's. Diver will def be out of budget for me...

Yonsson has the vid up on his instagram, otherwise here is the leaked image I posted a while back, which is now official lol


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

ahonobaka said:


> Chuckling that they released the media a bit too early again after the leaks a while back! Wasn't expecting the Snowflake GMT, but I'm definitely still eyeing the black GMT among the Evo 9's. Diver will def be out of budget for me...
> 
> Yonsson has the vid up on his instagram, otherwise here is the leaked image I posted a while back, which is now official lol
> View attachment 16531155



I know right  funny indeed.


----------



## NightScar

osmin said:


> cant see the instagram links



they deleted it, i guess it got posted a lil too early


----------



## lamborghini

They are already out in the world and should stay that way!


----------



## mitch57

As much as I love GS I've decided to move on to other watch brands. GS makes great in house watches and many of the parts are done by hand. However, GS just keeps raising their prices to the level of upper end luxury pricing without really offering anything new or unique.

They seem to be trying to command the same prices that the upper level luxury prices demand but really don't compete with them when it comes to overall quality, engineering, parts, precious medals and finishing from the bracelet, clasp, lume and overall fit and finish. 

I own 4 GS watches and love them to death but as the prices keep rising towards the 10K level I think there are far better options out there at that price point.

I'm already in the process of purchasing one of those upper end luxury watches at or around 10K that addresses at least 90 percent of the complaints and issues with GS. In my opinion GS doesn't even come close to the over all build quality of the watch I'm getting.

I don't want to hijack the thread but I'm sure someone's going to ask what I'm getting that makes me say that GS doesn't compete with them. So here's my next watch. 1-36-13-02-81-70. Here's a couple of videos of the unboxing and a detailed review of it. Not my reviews as I don't have mine in hand yet.

The boxes are real leather and not that faux crap. 




This guy gives a great review of all the detailed finishing and functionality of the watch and bracelet. 



. GS, at their current and trending price point, just doesn't compete with some of the other brands in the same price range. Many of Glashutte Original's watches are even less expensive with the same quality of my next watch. Plus, the movements and bracelets are second to none in the industry.

Come on GS! Step up to the plate and start producing watches to coincide with the prices you're demanding.


----------



## ink3027

It looks like the SLGA015 has the same clasp. Unbelievable.


----------



## dontomaso

43.8mm × 13.8mm…


----------



## Molle

dontomaso said:


> 43.8mm × 13.8mm…


And the. Chrono (rotating bezel) is 45.3x15.8mm. Pity, but good for the bank account.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


----------



## dontomaso

The SD GMT is 41mm x 13.9 mm.
Oh well, no GS for me this year. Then again the Black Bay Pro looks pretty nice.


----------



## Shug

Webpage for the diver.
SLGA015 | Collections | Grand Seiko


----------



## munichblue

What the hell is wrong with product planning at Grand Seiko in Japan? 🤢

Can't they see what a historic opportunity they are missing to overtake Rolex? But that doesn't work with a diver of this size, no matter how nice the watch is overall.


----------



## Tanker G1

GS seems to not give AF what people want. Not releasing a smaller diver in a market hungry for one is incredibly tone-deaf by GS. Additionally, they're now asking $11,600 for a 44mm Spring Drive diver with 2 extra days of PR over the previous 44mm Spring Drive diver. If I'm forced to choose 44mm, why wouldn't I choose the previous model with a more-than-adequate 3-day PR and save myself $5-6,000?


----------



## NightScar

__
http://instagr.am/p/CbuGcVjLkTM/


----------



## kyle1234c

It's almost like watch companies don't want to make money. Releases so far this year across the board have been appalling in my opinion. GS pricing is surely untenable at this point to basically get a nicely finished but overly thick mass produced watch with a bit of hand polishing. Maybe they make them thick so when you inevitably hit them on a door frame you have to pay to get them repolished in Japan.


----------



## 54B

Lots of comments here about the size of the GS diver and GS not making a Rolex copycat. Personally, I like that GS is sticking to its guns and not looking to fill the gap left by Rolex waitlists. These are divers and other sports watches, not wallflowers!

I say this as someone who owns both a Tudor BB58 (39mm) and a Panerai Luminor (44mm). I like them both but the latter definitely gets more time on my 7" wrist. I see the Tudor as a fun nod back to historic watches rather than a serious diver. To be clear, I'm talking about ethos, here, rather than what I actually use the watches for (I'm a swimmer, not a diver, and mainly use bezels to time my cooking). With all that in mind, I'm looking forward to seeing the SLGA015 in the metal.

It is a shame that GS no longer offers the great value for money that it used to but I guess they charge what they see people willing to pay.


----------



## aks12r

the SLGA015 diver looks amazing quality and the lesser height is always welcome! I can appreciate it is not always easy to miniaturise technology but at 43.8mm l2l the screw down crown at 3 o'clock is a problem for me. 
a truly beautiful watch regardless!


----------



## munichblue

54B said:


> Lots of comments here about the size of the GS diver and GS not making a Rolex copycat. Personally, I like that GS is sticking to its guns and not looking to fill the gap left by Rolex waitlists. These are divers and other sports watches, not wallflowers!
> 
> I say this as someone who owns both a Tudor BB58 (39mm) and a Panerai Luminor (44mm). I like them both but the latter definitely gets more time on my 7" wrist. I see the Tudor as a fun nod back to historic watches rather than a serious diver. To be clear, I'm talking about ethos, here, rather than what I actually use the watches for (I'm a swimmer, not a diver, and mainly use bezels to time my cooking). With all that in mind, I'm looking forward to seeing the SLGA015 in the metal.
> 
> It is a shame that GS no longer offers the great value for money that it used to but I guess they charge what they see people willing to pay.


I guess I could swallow the size of this beautiful watch because my wrist size is 8“. But the old and thick clasp makes it a no-go. Especially not for over 11k, therefore I would expect something more sophisticated.

As long as they do not change anything and the clasp is more elegant and a little thinner, it will be nothing between Grand Seiko diver and me. 

But it doesn't matter, then I'll finally get a Shunbun and just enjoy divers from other brands.


----------



## 54B

aks12r said:


> at 43.8mm l2l


I think it's 43.8mm diameter. Lug to lug is 51.5mm. It's probably semantics at this point anyway


----------



## TraserH3

The most offensive thing is the new SBGE models using old movement but new case design is supposed to cause price to shoot up to 9k??? That’s just absolutely absurd!
I understand price increase with new movement but you cannot just call it evolution 9 with old movement and double the price!

and on the new diver… same big thick diver with stamped sheet metal clasp


----------



## aks12r

54B said:


> I think it's 43.8mm diameter. Lug to lug is 51.5mm. It's probably semantics at this point anyway


i actually wrote diameter then edited it out for l2l 🤦‍♂️ - kids are at home today - I'm working from home today - nothing is going right today 




TraserH3 said:


> The most offensive thing is the new SBGE models using old movement but new case design is supposed to cause price to shoot up to 9k??? That’s just absolutely absurd!
> I understand price increase with new movement but you cannot just call it evolution 9 with old movement and double the price!
> 
> and on the new diver… same big thick diver with stamped sheet metal clasp


is pricing confirmed as 9k? I'm assuming USD which prices it very close to a sub 
at least you will be able to get the GS. with a sub you might be a year older before you get it.

*EDIT - a quick look - the SLGA015 is U$11,600 *


----------



## One-Seventy

TraserH3 said:


> The most offensive thing is the new SBGE models using old movement but new case design is supposed to cause price to shoot up to 9k??? That’s just absolutely absurd!
> I understand price increase with new movement but you cannot just call it evolution 9 with old movement and double the price!
> 
> and on the new diver… same big thick diver with stamped sheet metal clasp


It's gone up 30%, not 100%, compared to older SD GMTs. And the new diver's clasp is milled titanium with microadjust. Other than that, brilliant post


----------



## TraserH3

One-Seventy said:


> It's gone up 30%, not 100%, compared to older SD GMTs. And the new diver's clasp is milled titanium with microadjust. Other than that, brilliant post
> View attachment 16531643


The issue on the clasp is the diver ratchet mechanism is stamped SS... even on titanium bracelets. Check a recent topic about rust on titanium diver bracelet, the titanium GS divers have "SS +Ti" on the bracelet. The ratchet pieces are stamped SS. The issue is this is the exact same design clasp as on a $2000 MM300. Stamped metal may be ok on the MM300, definitely not ok here imo.


----------



## Cward85

Just spoke with my AD - the prices for those two S9 GMT's are $8,300 - we both couldn't believe that GS priced them there.... Like others already said that price just for the case form factor is going to turn a lot of people away considering them since apart from the price, they do look really nice. Perhaps they're thinking they can go there as these seem to be a direct answer to the Rolex Explorer II... But with the 9R66 movement, that's a no go. I'm glad I have the SBGE275 incoming - with the 9R16 movement and 7,300 that's a bargain compared to those two.

As for the clasp on the diver - as a diver I really appreciate its design - although I would question my sanity strapping it on for a dive 😂. I understand people's gripes particularly with the stamped SS clasp but the mechanism itself is better functionally than the clasps with folding extensions that are much more nicely made at their competitors... Let the flaming begin 😛

I didn't see any release dates....


----------



## Cward85

One-Seventy said:


> It's gone up 30%, not 100%, compared to older SD GMTs. And the new diver's clasp is milled titanium with microadjust. Other than that, brilliant post
> View attachment 16531643


Is it? I didn't see anywhere it saying specifically that the clasp is titanium - bracelet yes but even though past performance is not indicative of future results, I would still bet that the clasp is stainless steel.


----------



## john_marston

Some cool new stuff. Albeit not all enthusiast models..

They're certainly doing their own thing, you can't deny that at least


----------



## Commisar

54B said:


> Lots of comments here about the size of the GS diver and GS not making a Rolex copycat. Personally, I like that GS is sticking to its guns and not looking to fill the gap left by Rolex waitlists. These are divers and other sports watches, not wallflowers!
> 
> I say this as someone who owns both a Tudor BB58 (39mm) and a Panerai Luminor (44mm). I like them both but the latter definitely gets more time on my 7" wrist. I see the Tudor as a fun nod back to historic watches rather than a serious diver. To be clear, I'm talking about ethos, here, rather than what I actually use the watches for (I'm a swimmer, not a diver, and mainly use bezels to time my cooking). With all that in mind, I'm looking forward to seeing the SLGA015 in the metal.
> 
> It is a shame that GS no longer offers the great value for money that it used to but I guess they charge what they see people willing to pay.


Seiko made GS it's own brand a few years back precisely to get away from the "great value" thing.

Seiko wants to make money and moving GS up the pricing tier (at least for it's SD and mechanical offerings) is an excellent way to build prestige and make money. 

Thankfully their used value and their quartz models are still amazing deals for the most part 

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Commisar

munichblue said:


> What the hell is wrong with product planning at Grand Seiko in Japan?
> 
> Can't they see what a historic opportunity they are missing to overtake Rolex? But that doesn't work with a diver of this size, no matter how nice the watch is overall.


To be completely honest they don't care and why should they.

A significant % of Rolex buyers will NOT CONSIDER any other brand. It's Rolex all the way no matter how many loans I have to take out to post that Rollie on the gram.

Why bother chasing that ridiculous demographic? 

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Commisar

dontomaso said:


> The SD GMT is 41mm x 13.9 mm.
> Oh well, no GS for me this year. Then again the Black Bay Pro looks pretty nice.


The black bay pro is even thicker than the SD Chrono. 14.6mm to be precise.....it's also 39mm so its going to feel really chubby.

Tbh the Longines Zulu Time seems to be the Traveller GMT to beat if you can hand a 42mm watch (I thankfully can) 

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## 54B

Cward85 said:


> Is it? I didn't see anywhere it saying specifically that the clasp is titanium - bracelet yes but if past performance is not indicative of future results. I would still bet that the clasp is stainless steel.


Fair point. Fratello state "this is the bracelet that Grand Seiko has used for quite some time, and let’s face it, you either love it or you don’t".


----------



## Tanker G1

If the SLGA015 sells well at $11,600 the only positive I might take away is knowing my SBGA231 will continue to hold value. I mean, with a refreshed perspective of what a GS is worth, if the 44mm titanium watch on the left is worth $11,600, the 44mm titanium watch on the right must be worth a decent percentage of that, no? 
















They even have the same bracelet and clasp, lol.


----------



## TraserH3

Tanker G1 said:


> If the SLGA015 sells well at $11,600 the only positive I might take away is knowing my SBGA231 will continue to hold value. I mean, with a refreshed perspective of what a GS is worth, if the 44mm titanium watch on the left is worth $11,600, the 44mm titanium watch on the right must be worth a decent percentage of that, no?
> View attachment 16531906
> View attachment 16531907
> 
> 
> They even have the same bracelet and clasp, lol.


from personal experience, when trying to sell a GS or high priced Seiko, people don’t give crap about the msrp or what you paid….


----------



## Tanker G1

aks12r said:


> the SLGA015 diver looks amazing quality and the lesser height is always welcome! I can appreciate it is not always easy to miniaturise technology but at 43.8mm l2l the screw down crown at 3 o'clock is a problem for me.
> a truly beautiful watch regardless!
> View attachment 16531480


Just noticed from your pic that it seems they didn't horizontally stretch the single digit dates to fill the window like they did on my SBGA231. Compare with '6' date below:


----------



## Tanker G1

TraserH3 said:


> from personal experience, when trying to sell a GS or high priced Seiko, people don’t give crap about the msrp or what you paid….


I know, but with 5-digit pricing quickly becoming the new normal and discounts frowned upon by the GS mothership, it puts into question what the used market might look like in the future.


----------



## SISL

They shaved close to 1mm thickness on the GMT, so there's that. The <$1k price increase is a shocker though.


----------



## Commisar

Tanker G1 said:


> I know, but with 5-digit pricing quickly becoming the new normal and discounts frowned upon by the GS mothership, it puts into question what the used market might look like in the future.


I mean, the 5 digit prices are for brand new models, LE models kr very complicated models (SD chronograph with GMT and date)

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## egwatchfan

Sorry… I hate to say it because I’m a huge GS fan but at these prices there are so many other great options out there to consider. I am left wondering if I’ll ever buy another grand seiko to be quite honest.


----------



## Tanker G1

Commisar said:


> I mean, the 5 digit prices are for brand new models, LE models kr very complicated models (SD chronograph with GMT and date)


I might be missing your point but I know this is a new model.


----------



## SISL

The more I think about the new GMTs, the less shocked I am by the price increase: new thinner case + titanium + regular inflation explains it.


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> From what I can tell the GS design language seems to be that the sport models get lume, while the Evo9 and Heritage collections don’t. To date, it’s only the Sport models that get rotating bezels, so if GS makes a new GMT with a rotating bezel, it’ll likely have lume.





percysmith said:


> Given 2021 recent release history, probably one line dress (seasons) and one line sports (SBGM245/SBGM247)?


SBGM245: 40.5mm x 14.4mm x 48.6mm, 180g, movement 9S66 (Spring Drive, 72h power reserve)
SBGE283: 41mm x 13.9mm x 48.3mm, weight unknown but is titanium, movement 9R66 (28,800 vph mechanical, 72h power reserve)


----------



## mcsf

mitch57 said:


> As much as I love GS I've decided to move on to other watch brands. GS makes great in house watches and many of the parts are done by hand. However, GS just keeps raising their prices to the level of upper end luxury pricing without really offering anything new or unique.
> 
> They seem to be trying to command the same prices that the upper level luxury prices demand but really don't compete with them when it comes to overall quality, engineering, parts, precious medals and finishing from the bracelet, clasp, lume and overall fit and finish.
> 
> I own 4 GS watches and love them to death but as the prices keep rising towards the 10K level I think there are far better options out there at that price point.
> 
> I'm already in the process of purchasing one of those upper end luxury watches at or around 10K that addresses at least 90 percent of the complaints and issues with GS. In my opinion GS doesn't even come close to the over all build quality of the watch I'm getting.
> 
> I don't want to hijack the thread but I'm sure someone's going to ask what I'm getting that makes me say that GS doesn't compete with them. So here's my next watch. 1-36-13-02-81-70. Here's a couple of videos of the unboxing and a detailed review of it. Not my reviews as I don't have mine in hand yet.
> 
> The boxes are real leather and not that faux crap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy gives a great review of all the detailed finishing and functionality of the watch and bracelet.
> 
> 
> 
> . GS, at their current and trending price point, just doesn't compete with some of the other brands in the same price range. Many of Glashutte Original's watches are even less expensive with the same quality of my next watch. Plus, the movements and bracelets are second to none in the industry.
> 
> Come on GS! Step up to the plate and start producing watches to coincide with the prices you're demanding.


That is a beauty congrats! Literally the only thing I can find fault in is it is a little thick. Otherwise gorgeous watch!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gebbeth

I think the new SLGA015 is beautiful and at 43mm it's around the same size as the SD43 and smaller than the SDDS. It's also smaller than the Blancpain FF and certainly smaller than the SLGA001.

This was not meant for small wrists, and GS has other models for smaller size wrists.

The watch materials and dial are really unique in my opinion and it just gives this watch a premium feel and more substantial than a ceramic cased watch like the Planet Ocean Deep Black, for example.

The price is on the high side, and that is a bummer for sure. If priced at $8K to $9K this would be a homerun.

But, in a market where a $10K Rolex is unobtainable other than at a nose bleed price of $17K on up, this is a perverse "bargain".


----------



## mitch57

mcsf said:


> That is a beauty congrats! Literally the only thing I can find fault in is it is a little thick. Otherwise gorgeous watch!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree. The smaller version with the date at 3 is only 39.5mm. 1-39-11-09-81-70. I was originally going to buy the smaller version but it doesn't have the display case back and it has a cheaper 40 hour power reserve. Plus, you can't see the movement and that movement is a sight to behold for sure!

The thickness and diameter are really the only downside to this watch. That and I would prefer satin finished center links over the polished center links. I should have it in hand by Friday.


----------



## matthew P

That new diver is pretty magnificent in my book. 
Smaller and lighter by spec ( sure / not much ) and I’m guessing it will present smaller on wrist than specs based on the new case design….. I also suspect the dial is slightly smaller…. At least it seems less spacious. 

This is the first GS diver that I’ve loved since I bought my 029










I’m not going to upgrade at retail but down the road a 20% discount combined with used pricing could entice me to flip….. I love the new layout, the shift away from looking like a Rolex ( 12 o’clock marker and bezel font / layout )…… and building it in ti without the gilt font is fantastic IMO. 


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## mcsf

mitch57 said:


> I agree. The smaller version with the date at 3 is only 39.5mm. 1-39-11-09-81-70. I was originally going to buy the smaller version but it doesn't have the display case back and it has a cheaper 40 hour power reserve. Plus, you can't see the movement and that movement is a sight to behold for sure!
> 
> The thickness and diameter are really the only downside to this watch. That and I would prefer satin finished center links over the polished center links. I should have it in hand by Friday.


Well please post some pics! I’d love to see it. Probably in a separate post. Congrats again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gebbeth

Any wrist shots of the new GMT and Chrono GMTs they put out?


----------



## MstrDabbles

Gebbeth said:


> Any wrist shots of the new GMT and Chrono GMTs they put out?


Shhhh



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Commisar

MstrDabbles said:


> Shhhh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The new SD GMTs are the perfect size and material IMHO.... But they are so MONOCHROMATIC. 

I am extremely happy with GS FINALLY discovering the magic of lume on the evolution 9 SD watches though 

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ginseng108

I was hoping GS would come out with an updated sport diver. Hoping this would be the year to pick up the next gen after the 231. Well, it's not working for me. It's a lovely watch and I dig the new case and 5-day PR, but at $11.6k the package is a no-go. Not even close. 

The chrono looks pretty good though. Finally, pushers that are not grotesquely styled and horribly oversized.


----------



## super_purple

Is that Snowflake GMT dial off-white? I don't know if it's just the color balance, but to me it looks like yellow snow 🤢


----------



## Tanker G1

Ginseng108 said:


> I was hoping GS would come out with an updated sport diver. Hoping this would be the year to pick up the next gen after the 231. Well, it's not working for me. It's a lovely watch and I dig the new case and 5-day PR, but at $11.6k the package is a no-go. Not even close.
> 
> The chrono looks pretty good though. Finally, pushers that are not grotesquely styled and horribly oversized.


I have six GS including the 231 and dozens of Seiko watches so I haven't exactly been an example of moderation when it comes to giving Seiko money, but this new diver is a bridge too far for me as well.

$11,600? Hell...


----------



## MstrDabbles

super_purple said:


> Is that Snowflake GMT dial off-white? I don't know if it's just the color balance, but to me it looks like yellow snow


Thanks for saying that. Fixed it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mcsf

Commisar said:


> The new SD GMTs are the perfect size and material IMHO.... But they are so MONOCHROMATIC.
> 
> I am extremely happy with GS FINALLY discovering the magic of lume on the evolution 9 SD watches though
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


These are my exact thoughts. Good size. Finally some lume. But zero color?…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gebbeth

Tanker G1 said:


> I have six GS including the 231 and dozens of Seiko watches so I haven't exactly been an example of moderation when it comes to giving Seiko money, but this new diver is a bridge too far for me as well.
> 
> $11,600? Hell...
> View attachment 16532982


$11K+ is very very disappointing. I want to like it so much. I just don't understand how the SLGA001 with 600M water resistance could be cheaper than the SLGA015. I understand the dial and materials are different, but the value proposition doesn't make sense.

I will have to wait a few years then when some of these watches make it into the used market, if at all.


----------



## aks12r

GS & Seiko, rolex, omega and my dog all know people want a ti diver option - so GS they feel they can ask a premium price and hopefully entice some people waiting on Rolex, to diversify.
would be funny if rolex put out a ti diver in the next couple of years though, the SLGA015 rrp & 2nd hand prices would tank overnight.
find it hard to swallow the price increase is based on machining costs for something they have blanks already made for.
i applaud GS for making it ti an NOT a limited edition and am sure a steel version will come soon at a 1000$ less.

edited - because.


----------



## cordi7

As I watch the new releases (and it’s not just GS) there are no things that catch my eye - constant force tourbillon is fabulous but not my price bracket. Lot of microwave oven heated leftovers with one common theme - price increase. It leaves me a bit bitter.


----------



## One-Seventy

aks12r said:


> GS & Seiko, rolex, omega and my dog all know people want a ti diver option - so GS they feel they can ask a premium price and hopefully entice some people waiting on Rolex, to diversify.
> would be funny if rolex put out a ti diver in the next couple of years though, the SLGA015 rrp & 2nd hand prices would tank overnight.
> find it hard to swallow the price increase is based on machining costs for something they have blanks already made for.
> i applaud GS for making it ti an NOT a limited edition and am sure a steel version will come soon at a 1000$ less.
> 
> edited - because.


The diver is too big for me, but frankly, the more hipsters and stock pricing experts licking the windows of the nearest Rolex AD whilst breathing through their mouths and leaving GS alone the better.


----------



## Xerxes300

aks12r said:


> GS & Seiko, rolex, omega and my dog all know people want a ti diver option - so GS they feel they can ask a premium price and hopefully entice some people waiting on Rolex, to diversify.
> would be funny if rolex put out a ti diver in the next couple of years though, the SLGA015 rrp & 2nd hand prices would tank overnight.
> find it hard to swallow the price increase is based on machining costs for something they have blanks already made for.
> i applaud GS for making it ti an NOT a limited edition and am sure a steel version will come soon at a 1000$ less.
> 
> edited - because.


Everyone knows, if you want a $10k rolex (forgive me i don't know the msrp in Australia), you have to go gray market and pay $18k-$20k. So you'll gladly pay $5k for a seamaster, $7K for a GS (SBGA463) or $11k for the new 5 day diver 

you'll gladly pay MSRP for any other brand, since you can't find submariners or any other rolex in AD's anyway. 

but people must be watching antique's roadshow replays on youtube, and assume buying up submariners at 200% msrp is the way to invest... i don't know


----------



## NightScar

__
http://instagr.am/p/CbxTS60rwx8/


----------



## BarracksSi

NightScar said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CbxTS60rwx8/


Tbh, this looks like GS went, “Oh okay, we can do a toorbeeyon too, if you guys think Credor isn’t haute enough…”


----------



## Tanker G1

NightScar said:


> SLGT003 Kodo Constant-Force Tourbillon


An absolute marvel of engineering. Imagine the private collections that are soon to include these.


----------



## Xerxes300

NightScar said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CbxTS60rwx8/


----------



## Commisar

cordi7 said:


> As I watch the new releases (and it’s not just GS) there are no things that catch my eye - constant force tourbillon is fabulous but not my price bracket. Lot of microwave oven heated leftovers with one common theme - price increase. It leaves me a bit bitter.


Watch Brand strategy 101: prices will increase as much as the market will bear.

As long as it doesn't affect profits (note I didn't say sales), they'll happily raise prices as much as they can. Omega reliably raises prices every few years, as does Rolex. 

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Commisar

Xerxes300 said:


> View attachment 16533834
> 
> 
> View attachment 16533835
> 
> 
> View attachment 16533836


An absolute technical MARVEL from Grand Seiko. 

Anyone who says "ugh, Grand Seiko is just slightly nicer SEIKO" needs to see this thing

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gebbeth

Xerxes300 said:


> View attachment 16533834
> 
> 
> View attachment 16533835
> 
> 
> View attachment 16533836



I think this is a beautiful watch. BUT, the mini-dial at the 12 with tourbillon at the 6 is getting kinda old now.

The MB&F collab with Moser, and Moser's new release this year all have this. Breguet has been doing this for awhile. It's not anything "unique" in that sense.


----------



## percysmith

Commisar said:


> Watch Brand strategy 101: prices will increase as much as the market will bear.
> 
> As long as it doesn't affect profits (note I didn't say sales), they'll happily raise prices as much as they can. Omega reliably raises prices every few years, as does Rolex.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


Honestly if Grand Seiko thinks they can raise prices, we’ll turn to secondary market:


----------



## Tomatoes11

The watch market or any market in general, is so crazy right now I think just about any company can raise prices for now.


----------



## Gebbeth

I don't know whether price increases will be sustainable. However, I've just come to the conclusion that buying most luxury watches used and/or in the secondary market is really the only way to buy. Save for Rolex, Patek, VC, and AP, which sell consistently above retail in the secondary markets, all other watches do not save for some very very limited models.

Grand Seiko is once of those brands whose watches consistently sell for less used or in the secondary market. The smart or logical play is to wait, which may or may not be good for GS bottom line, but it does seem to suggest that price increases by GS are not really justified. Just like there is no point in paying 2x retail for a Playstation 5 when it first comes out, the smart play is to wait on a newly released GS.


----------



## One-Seventy

Gebbeth said:


> I don't know whether price increases will be sustainable. However, I've just come to the conclusion that buying most luxury watches used and/or in the secondary market is really the only way to buy. Save for Rolex, Patek, VC, and AP, which sell consistently above retail in the secondary markets, all other watches do not save for some very very limited models.


If it's the only way to buy, then there won't be any to buy at all.


> Grand Seiko is once of those brands whose watches consistently sell for less used or in the secondary market.


You mean like "all of them, except perhaps four or five", right? Because that's what happens to almost all of them.

You know, this is the norm. It's only a small handful of watches treated as investments - because behaviourally everyone has tacitly agrees they are investments - that trade above face value in the secondary stock market. But now whenever a wasting asset depreciates, people bawl "#EPICFAIL lol". Modern. Weird.


----------



## Tomatoes11

I don’t think Seiko cares much about resale value for now, they might later when they expand their market research and branding but I think as long as it sells to the ADs ,that’s all they care about right now, they don’t care if people take a loss when they flip it as long as the AD paid them and it sold at the AD. I think those are the only numbers they are tracking for now. Shipped to AD and if the AD ordered more pieces. The rest they probably couldn’t care less.


----------



## Gebbeth

One-Seventy said:


> If it's the only way to buy, then there won't be any to buy at all.
> 
> You mean like "all of them, except perhaps four or five", right? Because that's what happens to almost all of them.
> 
> You know, this is the norm. It's only a small handful of watches treated as investments - because behaviourally everyone has tacitly agrees they are investments - that trade above face value in the secondary stock market. But now whenever a wasting asset depreciates, people bawl "#EPICFAIL lol". Modern. Weird.


I guess I'm not clear what you are getting at.

"*If it's the only way to buy, then there won't be any to buy at all.*" If you are saying there would be no supply of watches on the secondary market if there are not retail buyers, I think we've seen enough of "new and unworn" listings to suggest that this is not entirely true. Somehow "new" watches or "barely worn" (whatever that means) watches make it to the secondary markets all the time. Somehow the resellers have been able to sell most of these watches at a discount while presumably still making a profit.

But my point wasn't that at all. My point was that as a consumer, it's the only way to buy, which is a watch that has the depreciation built into the price. If you can get a watch at a 20% or more discount to retail, why wouldn't you do that? As a consumer or collector of watches, you'd be crazy not to want to get the lowest price possible for the same watch, especially if there is no discernable physical difference between the watches.

"*You mean like "all of them, except perhaps four or five"*". Again, not sure what that means. If you are saying most watched do not depreciate in price, and are being sarcastic about my statement, then you are wrong. Most watches consistently lose value once bought. In fact, that is the norm. This is objectively correct.

So if they do, it again makes sense to buy them used or on the secondary market. No one, certain I didn't, state the reason to buy cheaper was because of an investment purpose. You read that the wrong way.

You buy used or secondary for the mere fact that depreciation will get built into the cost to you...whether that is "new and unworn" or "lightly worn" or plain "used and worn." It's just cheaper to you. Wouldn't you want to buy the same watch at a cheaper price?

Granted some don't because they want it now. They want it first. They want the champagne dreams and caviar experience of an AD....whatever. But a big part of this audience don't buy watches because of that, we we very very often make fun of or criticize people who do (look at the Moonswatch threads or any of the "Would you buy Rolex above retail" threads).

If you think that buying a watch on the secondary market or used is not a good deal for the average watch collector, or the vast majority of watch collectors, then I'd like to hear your opinion as to why.


----------



## NightScar

__
http://instagr.am/p/CbyudKoL71y/


__
http://instagr.am/p/CbyuXviLHeA/


----------



## SISL

SBGW283 & SBGW285 are now on the US boutique site:








Grand Seiko Manual SBGW283 Manual-Winding Watch


Grand Seiko Manual-Winding SBGW283 "Kishun" watch available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!




grandseikoboutique.us












Grand Seiko Manual SBGW285 Manual-Winding Watch


Grand Seiko Manual-Winding SBGW285 "Byōka" watch available for sale from the only official Boutique Online | Acquire yours today!




grandseikoboutique.us


----------



## NightScar

^ ^ ^

im considering on pre-ordering, when you do, do they charge you right away or when they ship?


also, anybody know if its gon be limited or gon be as common as an sbgw231?


----------



## ts298

Like others here I haven’t been a fan of GS’ run these last two years with the spamming of new models/limited editions, and the ever-increasing prices. But the thing is that these watches are selling faster than ever, to a crowd that mostly doesn’t participate in this forum. For me, the SBGH273 that I recently bought for $6300 is about the most I can justify for a GS. Even then I’m terrified of it being butchered at the Mahwah service center. I’m just glad they’ve kept their quartz catalog and I find plenty to love there with designs, prices (i.e. classic GS “value”) and size/thickness.


----------



## SISL

@*NightScar - *They charge you right away.


----------



## matthew P

I think this will be my next diver at some point 





































Pricing is a little frightening right now but I’m patient 


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## SuperDadHK

NightScar said:


> ^ ^ ^
> 
> im considering on pre-ordering, when you do, do they charge you right away or when they ship?
> 
> 
> also, anybody know if its gon be limited or gon be as common as an sbgw231?


Not limited according to Hodinkee


----------



## Xerxes300




----------



## BarracksSi

Xerxes300 said:


>


I didn't expect a groovy accent per eight ticks.

(edit) Mini-poll: "Do you hear the tick on the downbeat, or on the backbeat?"


----------



## john_marston

Gebbeth said:


> I don't know whether price increases will be sustainable. However, I've just come to the conclusion that buying most luxury watches used and/or in the secondary market is really the only way to buy. Save for Rolex, Patek, VC, and AP, which sell consistently above retail in the secondary markets, all other watches do not save for some very very limited models.
> 
> Grand Seiko is once of those brands whose watches consistently sell for less used or in the secondary market. The smart or logical play is to wait, which may or may not be good for GS bottom line, but it does seem to suggest that price increases by GS are not really justified. Just like there is no point in paying 2x retail for a Playstation 5 when it first comes out, the smart play is to wait on a newly released GS.


I agree, once you look past the 'scariness' of buying used/grey, you save so much money there


----------



## Mark355

So glad we finally have a 43mm diver from GS. I was so sick of all the diving options made for humans. Anyone know if Omega has released any special edition watches yet? Always wanted one of those too.


----------



## Tanker G1

Xerxes300 said:


>


Those blue hands are sweet. They should've carried those over to the Kodo as well as the hands they went with lack contrast. No biggie though since there's only 20 of them.


----------



## matthew P

Tanker G1 said:


> Those blue hands are sweet. They should've carried those over to the Kodo as well as the hands they went with lack contrast. No biggie though since there's only 20 of them.
> View attachment 16537044


Nobody is wearing this watch to tell the time


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## Chrono Brewer

matthew P said:


> Nobody is wearing this watch to tell the time
> 
> 
> ….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


Likewise doubt anyone will be pushing the 100m water resistance.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

munichblue said:


> I guess I could swallow the size of this beautiful watch because my wrist size is 8“. But the old and thick clasp makes it a no-go. Especially not for over 11k, therefore I would expect something more sophisticated.
> 
> As long as they do not change anything and the clasp is more elegant and a little thinner, it will be nothing between Grand Seiko diver and me.
> 
> But it doesn't matter, then I'll finally get a Shunbun and just enjoy divers from other brands.


Hold on, you have an 8" wrist size? Then it's perfect for you. Mine is 6.25" and I really wanted to go for it if it had been smaller  with 8" wrists I'd absolutely get one.

That being said, there are quite a few people saying these don't wear nearly as large as the measurements would indicate. There's a review on YouTube by Long Nguyen with 6.25" wrists happily wearing a 44mm GS diver (SBGA231).

I have once had a look at the SBGA463 at the GS boutique and it indeed didn't feel that huge. I couldn't actually try it on though because it was all sealed up and the clasp couldn't be opened.

Again, for me it's possibly too huge but for you these larger divers would be perfect imo.

What I'm most curious about now is whether the slightly smaller size of the SLGA015 vs the SBGA463 is noticeable or not. 

Sadly it seems that the lug to lug has increased on the SLGA015 (51.5mm vs 51mm on the SBGA463).


----------



## munichblue

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Hold on, you have an 8" wrist size? Then it's perfect for you. Mine is 6.25" and I really wanted to go for it if it had been smaller  with 8" wrists I'd absolutely get one.
> 
> That being said, there are quite a few people saying these don't wear nearly as large as the measurements would indicate. There's a review on YouTube by Long Nguyen with 6.25" wrists happily wearing a 44mm GS diver (SBGA231).
> 
> I have once had a look at the SBGA463 at the GS boutique and it indeed didn't feel that huge. I couldn't actually try it on though because it was all sealed up and the clasp couldn't be opened.
> 
> Again, for me it's possibly too huge but for you these larger divers would be perfect imo.
> 
> What I'm most curious about now is whether the slightly smaller size of the SLGA015 vs the SBGA463 is noticeable or not.
> 
> Sadly it seems that the lug to lug has increased on the SLGA015 (51.5mm vs 51mm on the SBGA463).


Well, since the day before yesterday I'm in the settling-in phase....


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

munichblue said:


> Well, since the day before yesterday I'm in the settling-in phase....
> View attachment 16546833


Oh, did you try the SBGA231? How do you like the size etc? 

These phases are dangerous, soon you'll be at the point where you convince yourself the size is fine and the watch too pretty to pass up


----------



## munichblue

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Oh, did you try the SBGA231? How do you like the size etc?
> 
> These phases are dangerous, soon you'll be at the point where you convince yourself the size is fine and the watch too pretty to pass up


No I have not just tried it on. I got fed up and just bought it. I was at my AD on Monday and actually wanted a SBGA463 and by chance they also had a 231 in stock. Since nothing smaller is likely to come from Grand Seiko in the next few years, I just settled for the size. That the watch is a killer was clear and I have to admit, even in terms of size I like it better every day. And the titanium makes it very easy to get used to it.

I know, I'm crazy.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

munichblue said:


> No I have not just tried it on. I got fed up and just bought it. I was at my AD on Monday and actually wanted a SBGA463 and by chance they also had a 231 in stock. Since nothing smaller is likely to come from Grand Seiko in the next few years, I just settled for the size. That the watch is a killer was clear and I have to admit, even in terms of size I like it better every day. And the titanium makes it very easy to get used to it.
> 
> I know, I'm crazy.


OK fair enough, congrats, it's a beauty. I would guess the size isn't all that different and the pricing is much easier on the wallet too + like you said there's not gonna suddenly be a 41mm diver coming out anytime soon anyway.


----------



## bibbibart

A new WAKO limited edition of 50 pcs. This time in Evolution 9 collection. SLGH015. With the 9SA5 high beat drive. 

At the 9 o’clock marker there is a hidden (transparent) printing with characters „90TH”, which is to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the clock tower on Wako building in Ginza, Tokyo (seat of Seiko and their flagship GS store).


----------



## Domo

bibbibart said:


> A new WAKO limited edition of 50 pcs. This time in Evolution 9 collection. SLGH015. With the 9SA5 high beat drive.
> 
> At the 9 o’clock marker there is a hidden (transparent) printing with characters „90TH”, which is to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the clock tower on Wako building in Ginza, Tokyo (seat of Seiko and their flagship GS store).


mmmm nice


----------



## John Price

Domo said:


> mmmm nice
> View attachment 16547132


Hmm, I wonder how much that strap would cost. Would look nice on my SLGA007.


----------



## munichblue

John Price said:


> Hmm, I wonder how much that strap would cost. Would look nice on my SLGA007.


Grand Seiko will also be selling OEM straps on a regular basis through boutiques starting in August. Probably also through the online boutique:









Strap and Clasp | Grand Seiko


The Grand Seiko watches celebrate the Japanese spirituality of time that is deeply inspired by nature and her seasons and brought to life by Takumi, the dedicated seekers of mastery.



www.grand-seiko.com


----------



## thewatchidiot

munichblue said:


> Grand Seiko will also be selling OEM straps on a regular basis through boutiques starting in August. Probably also through the online boutique:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Strap and Clasp | Grand Seiko
> 
> 
> The Grand Seiko watches celebrate the Japanese spirituality of time that is deeply inspired by nature and her seasons and brought to life by Takumi, the dedicated seekers of mastery.
> 
> 
> 
> www.grand-seiko.com


Thanks for this info. I’ll have to check on strap lengths as that long side with 8 holes looks long enough to be a belt.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## jpisare

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Hold on, you have an 8" wrist size? Then it's perfect for you. Mine is 6.25" and I really wanted to go for it if it had been smaller  with 8" wrists I'd absolutely get one.
> 
> That being said, there are quite a few people saying these don't wear nearly as large as the measurements would indicate. There's a review on YouTube by Long Nguyen with 6.25" wrists happily wearing a 44mm GS diver (SBGA231).
> 
> I have once had a look at the SBGA463 at the GS boutique and it indeed didn't feel that huge. I couldn't actually try it on though because it was all sealed up and the clasp couldn't be opened.
> 
> Again, for me it's possibly too huge but for you these larger divers would be perfect imo.
> 
> What I'm most curious about now is whether the slightly smaller size of the SLGA015 vs the SBGA463 is noticeable or not.
> 
> Sadly it seems that the lug to lug has increased on the SLGA015 (51.5mm vs 51mm on the SBGA463).


I have 6.5" wrists, give or take, and I wear the SBGA229 Diver a lot. It gets the most wrist-time out of my large collection. I would agree that it doesn't wear as large as numbers on paper would indicate. However I do tend to gravitate to the chunkier watches; multiple MM300s, SNR045, the aforementioned 229, SLA025......
I'm sure the 231 wears like a dream with that titanium build and all.


----------



## Jake E

I feel quite fortunate to have purchased a Snowflake last year, an SBGW231 a couple months ago and to be soon acquiring an SBGN003. These are timepieces I equate with the 'glory years' of GS value and representative of price segments I anticipate being slowly phased out as the brand continues to move up market. 

Is Grand Seiko still the 'bargain' so many proclaimed them to be on a few years ago? I think there are pieces in the collection that certainly are, but if the market is willing to pay "Evolution 9" prices it makes no sense for GS to sell them for anything less. One thing we all have to remember is that Grand Seiko never marketed their watches as a 'good value', that's something we the watch community declared.

To further that train of thought I spoke to a couple ADs specifically about the White Birch and both said they have had zero problem selling them at full retail so clearly there is a market.

Will I be buying any of the new releases? Probably not. I love the SBGE283, but it's out of my price range. Am I mad at GS for pricing the watch at $8,400? Nope. These are luxury watches not milk and eggs... No one really 'needs' any of these things, so, while I'm disappointed that I won't be adding one to my collection, I certainly don't think Grand Seiko has 'lost it's way' just because the watch is more expensive than I am willing to spend.


----------



## matthew P

munichblue said:


> Well, since the day before yesterday I'm in the settling-in phase....
> View attachment 16546833


Congrats…… been a long time coming.

My wrist is 7 inch and I too feel like my 029 is a little larger than I’d prefer but I’ve really made peace with the size by wearing it on rubber and accepting it as my “Large” watch ( explorer is my small watch so there’s a little yin/yang to my options ). 
I started a thread about the after market diver strap options, sadly I havnt found a GS option that works yet.
For me getting it off it’s stock bracelet diminished the visual mass ….. always feels smaller on any non bracelet option. 












….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## munichblue

matthew P said:


> Congrats…… been a long time coming.
> 
> My wrist is 7 inch and I too feel like my 029 is a little larger than I’d prefer but I’ve really made peace with the size by wearing it on rubber and accepting it as my “Large” watch ( explorer is my small watch so there’s a little yin/yang to my options ).
> I started a thread about the after market diver strap options, sadly I havnt found a GS option that works yet.
> For me getting it off it’s stock bracelet diminished the visual mass ….. always feels smaller on any non bracelet option.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


Matt, it was mainly your many pictures, your passionate descriptions and your love for your 029 that step by step have also shaped and changed my opinion on the Grand Seiko diver. Thank you for that, because I think I have finally made the right decision after a long time. At least I am now very happy with the 231 and it will now defend the next few weeks its place on my writs (should the 40mm tiny only come and try ☺).


----------



## matthew P

munichblue said:


> Matt, it was mainly your many pictures, your passionate descriptions and your love for your 029 that step by step have also shaped and changed my opinion on the Grand Seiko diver. Thank you for that, because I think I have finally made the right decision after a long time. At least I am now very happy with the 231 and it will now defend the next few weeks its place on my writs (should the 40mm tiny only come and try ).


You got a good one….. I always liked the way the 231 grouped the gilt / GS font on the top half of the dial after the rebrand. 

I always loved the Ti but not the gilt on the 031.

I’m liking the look of the new diver for the Ti case….. I just can’t see spending that sort of money to downsize a mm……. I’m not even sure that a smaller 40mm GS diver is coming. Thankfully I’m all good with the 029, at least for the short term. 


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## munichblue

matthew P said:


> You got a good one….. I always liked the way the 231 grouped the gilt / GS font on the top half of the dial after the rebrand.
> 
> I always loved the Ti but not the gilt on the 031.
> 
> I’m liking the look of the new diver for the Ti case….. I just can’t see spending that sort of money to downsize a mm……. I’m not even sure that a smaller 40mm GS diver is coming. Thankfully I’m all good with the 029, at least for the short term.
> 
> 
> ….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


That was the final trigger for me now to buy a current model. Since the introduction of the SLGA015, it was clear to me that no smaller diver will come in the next few years. So it makes no sense to continue to hope for it.

Therefore, I have now decided to still buy, because I just absolutely wanted to have a diver in my collection.

And I am really happy about it. The 44mm goes really well on my 8 inch wrist and the titanium ensures that it is not too heavy on the wrist. Since I really want to wear a diver on the bracelet, this was the only option for me. The gold GS logo is the icing on the cake.

I am really happy to have made the decision and look forward to many years with my SBGA231.


----------



## percysmith

Jake E said:


> I feel quite fortunate to have purchased a Snowflake last year, an SBGW231 a couple months ago and to be soon acquiring an SBGN003. These are timepieces I equate with the 'glory years' of GS value and representative of price segments I anticipate being slowly phased out as the brand continues to move up market.
> 
> Is Grand Seiko still the 'bargain' so many proclaimed them to be on a few years ago? I think there are pieces in the collection that certainly are, but if the market is willing to pay "Evolution 9" prices it makes no sense for GS to sell them for anything less. One thing we all have to remember is that Grand Seiko never marketed their watches as a 'good value', that's something we the watch community declared.
> 
> To further that train of thought I spoke to a couple ADs specifically about the White Birch and both said they have had zero problem selling them at full retail so clearly there is a market.
> 
> Will I be buying any of the new releases? Probably not. I love the SBGE283, but it's out of my price range. Am I mad at GS for pricing the watch at $8,400? Nope. These are luxury watches not milk and eggs... No one really 'needs' any of these things, so, while I'm disappointed that I won't be adding one to my collection, I certainly don't think Grand Seiko has 'lost it's way' just because the watch is more expensive than I am willing to spend.





munichblue said:


> That was the final trigger for me now to buy a current model. Since the introduction of the SLGA015, it was clear to me that no smaller diver will come in the next few years. So it makes no sense to continue to hope for it.


Well fortunately for end users the 2nd hand prices on the current "legacy" Grand Seiko models are not increasing much.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

jpisare said:


> I have 6.5" wrists, give or take, and I wear the SBGA229 Diver a lot. It gets the most wrist-time out of my large collection. I would agree that it doesn't wear as large as numbers on paper would indicate. However I do tend to gravitate to the chunkier watches; multiple MM300s, SNR045, the aforementioned 229, SLA025......
> I'm sure the 231 wears like a dream with that titanium build and all.


Ok, interesting. 

Right now my largest watches are the new Bond no time to die SMP300 and the Moonwatch and these are fine but 42mm only so I guess it'll come down to trying on the SLGA015. My GS guy said I can try it on as soon as they get one. And I'm sure the Titanium will help a lot. 

Other than that all my watches are either 40mm GS (Birch, Minamo, Sakura, Rikka and the SBGN023) or sub 40mm Omega Trilogy models (these are just perfect for my 6.25" wrist).


----------



## ts298

Jake E said:


> I feel quite fortunate to have purchased a Snowflake last year, an SBGW231 a couple months ago and to be soon acquiring an SBGN003. These are timepieces I equate with the 'glory years' of GS value and representative of price segments I anticipate being slowly phased out as the brand continues to move up market.


I'm exactly on the same page for you, but I think the "OG" GSs (9F, etc.) will stick around because they seem to be very popular in the Japanese market. The SBGN003 is emblematic of why I started to love GS. I can't pay $10k for a GS; at that point I'll be thinking of adding a couple grand to my budget and grabbing a VC. I've recently been dabbling in the Presage line which has incredible stuff for the money.


----------



## super_purple

I think the second hand prices of SBGA211 will be responding quite soon. The retail prices (after discount) of the latest batch is ~20% more than the price in January. It always takes some time for these price hikes to trickle down to resale values, but I am quite sure we will be getting there.


----------



## Sassi

munichblue said:


> Well, since the day before yesterday I'm in the settling-in phase....
> View attachment 16546833


Awesome! 🤩

Here is mine:


----------



## johnMcKlane

yous guys have the wrist to wear that watch ....


----------



## bearattack

New limited release coming...


----------



## Tpp3975

bearattack said:


> New limited release coming...
> 
> View attachment 16559786
> 
> View attachment 16559787


That’s a killer watch. What movement?


----------



## northwatcher

Tpp3975 said:


> That’s a killer watch. What movement?


From Monochrome:


> Inside the case of this 36.5mm stunner is a well-known movement, the Calibre 9S64. This hand-wound engine is at the foundation of one of our favourite GS models, the time-only SBGW231 – also named by our founder _The Japanese Calatrava_. The 9S64 is here hidden behind a closed caseback but retains all its attributes, meaning a 4Hz frequency, 72h of power reserve and a claimed accuracy of +5 to -3 seconds per day.











Hands-On Grand Seiko Heritage 44GS 36.5mm Sakura SBGW289 (Price)


A compact size, a thin profile with hand-wound calibre and a texture sakura dial... The 36.5mm Grand Seiko Heritage SBGW289 is a stunner.




monochrome-watches.com


----------



## Tpp3975

northwatcher said:


> From Monochrome:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hands-On Grand Seiko Heritage 44GS 36.5mm Sakura SBGW289 (Price)
> 
> 
> A compact size, a thin profile with hand-wound calibre and a texture sakura dial... The 36.5mm Grand Seiko Heritage SBGW289 is a stunner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> monochrome-watches.com


Stunner. Not sure why they felt the need to make this an LE. Once again the flippers will snatch these up and sell them for 8k. I was just about the grab a Spring but I like this better with the 44GS. Too bad we won’t get the chance to buy them anyway.


----------



## dayandnight

Looks really nice 🫣🫣🫣


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 007_Omega

Tpp3975 said:


> Stunner. Not sure why they felt the need to make this an LE. Once again the flippers will snatch these up and sell them for 8k. I was just about the grab a Spring but I like this better with the 44GS. Too bad we won’t get the chance to buy them anyway.


You can literally pre-order it right now on GS' website and pay for it.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

I keep wishing they would reissue the Shunbun/Spring/Cherry Blossom dial without a date window or PR indicator. Guess this is the closest we'll get. At this rate they'll have that dial with every color imaginable.


----------



## jmariorebelo

bearattack said:


> New limited release coming...
> 
> View attachment 16559786
> 
> View attachment 16559787


This is such a pretty watch. And the 44gs case in 36mm, whaaaaaat?? I'm so tempted...


----------



## ts298

Love the size but wish the second hand was capped (small deal) and wish it had a power reserve meter (bigger deal on a manual wind imo).


----------



## Winzzz

ts298 said:


> Love the size but wish the second hand was capped (small deal) and wish it had a power reserve meter (bigger deal on a manual wind imo).


 Power reserve on the dial ? A lot of people would get angry lol.i guess you cant make everyone happy


----------



## Tpp3975

007_Omega said:


> You can literally pre-order it right now on GS' website and pay for it.


Just woke up. 8 am. Sold out. No doubt gone to the scalpers. Only 5400 too. Damn.


----------



## Bulovas&BoltActions

Tpp3975 said:


> Stunner. Not sure why they felt the need to make this an LE. Once again the flippers will snatch these up and sell them for 8k. I was just about the grab a Spring but I like this better with the 44GS. Too bad we won’t get the chance to buy them anyway.


Odds are this won't be the only model in that case size and design. I'd expect regular production models with much less interesting dials in the near future.


----------



## Miawwwn

Winzzz said:


> Power reserve on the dial ? A lot of people would get angry lol.i guess you cant make everyone happy


I was about to write that the power reserve might be on the back, but the back is plain 😮


----------



## munichblue

Tpp3975 said:


> Just woke up. 8 am. Sold out. No doubt gone to the scalpers. Only 5400 too. Damn.


----------



## drhr

Only online? No allocation to dealers? If so, bummer . . .


----------



## Thadeust

Tpp3975 said:


> Just woke up. 8 am. Sold out. No doubt gone to the scalpers. Only 5400 too. Damn.


Call a GS Boutique. They are sold out on the website, but the boutiques are still taking deposits. I put mine down about one hour ago.


----------



## bibbibart

drhr said:


> Only online? No allocation to dealers? If so, bummer . . .


Why not? It’ll surely go to dealerships. 

Do you think the GS letters are in rose (which I’d expect) or yellow gold?


----------



## CarbonPrevails

bibbibart said:


> Why not? It’ll surely go to dealerships.
> 
> Do you think the GS letters are in rose (which I’d expect) or yellow gold?


I don’t think it’s gold. I think they use brass most of the time.


----------



## bibbibart

CarbonPrevails said:


> I don’t think it’s gold. I think they use brass most of the time.


Yep, you’re right. I’m only referring to the color of the metal.


----------



## CarbonPrevails

bibbibart said:


> Yep, you’re right. I’m only referring to the color of the metal.


Ahh my bad. I should’ve figured as much. Yea it’s hard to tell from the photos. It looks more rose colored to me.


----------



## drhr

bibbibart said:


> Why not? It’ll surely go to dealerships.
> 
> Do you think the GS letters are in rose (which I’d expect) or yellow gold?


Hope you're right though even then with such a small run, eh . . . looks rose to me.


----------



## matthew P

munichblue said:


> View attachment 16560603


Hands seem small ?


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## TraserH3

munichblue said:


> View attachment 16560603



Don't worry man, they're producing and selling these in batches. No they did not make 1200 pieces at once.


----------



## Tpp3975

TraserH3 said:


> Don't worry man, they're producing and selling these in batches. No they did not make 1200 pieces at once.


I was just able to secure one on the GS Boutique so they seem to be popping up here and there. I checked with Topper and they indicated their allotment was spoken for unless they get more.


----------



## Liscon

Probably not a popular opinion but would love to see GS put a 9f in this and make it even thinner, with or without a date 👌


----------



## munichblue

TraserH3 said:


> Don't worry man, they're producing and selling these in batches. No they did not make 1200 pieces at once.


I have no worries because I’m not in the market. Can you imagine this small watch on my 8 inch wrist? 🤣


----------



## fasteddiev0.0

Was lucky enough to put down a deposit at a nearby AD. Does anyone know if the SBGW289 has a screw down crown? Unsure because 44GS hi beat references usually do, but this is the first 44GS case with the 9S64 inside. Might be a pain to wind if there’s a screw down crown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ink3027

fasteddiev0.0 said:


> Was lucky enough to put down a deposit at a nearby AD. Does anyone know if the SBGW289 has a screw down crown? Unsure because 44GS hi beat references usually do, but this is the first 44GS case with the 9S64 inside. Might be a pain to wind if there’s a screw down crown.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Judging by the pictures, I would guess it is not a screw down crown. Also, the GS website makes no mention of a screw down crown in the Functions section of the description, and they often do if it is a screw down crown.


----------



## whineboy

ts298 said:


> Love the size but wish the second hand was capped (small deal) and wish it had a power reserve meter (bigger deal on a manual wind imo).


I think only Spring Drive movements have PR indicators. Adding one to the 9S64 might require quite a redesign. 
And if one wears the watch for several days in a row, they wouldn’t need a PR, since they’d wind it daily (in the 9S64 manual GS recommends doing so).


Having a great time….


----------



## Bulovas&BoltActions

Liscon said:


> Probably not a popular opinion but would love to see GS put a 9f in this and make it even thinner, with or without a date 👌


That makes two of us, though I'll take the date. Hell, I'll take a day/date for that true 70s 5626-7000 or 4823-8000 experience.


----------



## twgxiong

Liscon said:


> Probably not a popular opinion but would love to see GS put a 9f in this and make it even thinner, with or without a date 👌


Agree, it would be a great place to debut a follow up to the 9f61 with an independent set hour hand


----------



## Domo

matthew P said:


> Hands seem small ?


It looks like the vintage-y handset that was once used on the SBGR081/083. Lacks the visual heft of the regular GS hands but they look great in the flesh



whineboy said:


> I think only Spring Drive movements have PR indicators. Adding one to the 9S64 might require quite a redesign.
> And if one wears the watch for several days in a row, they wouldn’t need a PR, since they’d wind it daily (in the 9S64 manual GS recommends doing so).


Au contraire, thanks to the 6S chrono heritage of the 9S baseplate, a power reserve is very doable, but it's positioned at 3 o'clock. They exist from the past (9S67, as used in the SBGL series) and also much more recently with the 9S63, used in the SBGK series


----------



## whineboy

Domo said:


> It looks like the vintage-y handset that was once used on the SBGR081/083. Lacks the visual heft of the regular GS hands but they look great in the flesh
> 
> 
> Au contraire, thanks to the 6S chrono heritage of the 9S baseplate, a power reserve is very doable, but it's positioned at 3 o'clock. They exist from the past (9S67, as used in the SBGL series) and also much more recently with the 9S63, used in the SBGK series


I forgot about the 9S67. Thanks for reminding me. Facepalm.


----------



## John Price

whineboy said:


> I think only Spring Drive movements have PR indicators. Adding one to the 9S64 might require quite a redesign.
> And if one wears the watch for several days in a row, they wouldn’t need a PR, since they’d wind it daily (in the 9S64 manual GS recommends doing so).
> 
> 
> Having a great time….


Actually the watches with the 9263 movement (small seconds, hand wound) also have PR indicators. Think SBGK005 for example.


----------



## TraserH3

fasteddiev0.0 said:


> Was lucky enough to put down a deposit at a nearby AD. Does anyone know if the SBGW289 has a screw down crown? Unsure because 44GS hi beat references usually do, but this is the first 44GS case with the 9S64 inside. Might be a pain to wind if there’s a screw down crown.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


usually manual wind don’t have screw down crown. If you had to unscrew and screw the crown everyday to wind it, very soon the threads will be crossed a d watch ruined.


----------



## whineboy

John Price said:


> Actually the watches with the 9263 movement (small seconds, hand wound) also have PR indicators. Think SBGK005 for example.


I stand (even further) corrected.


----------



## snash7

fasteddiev0.0 said:


> Was lucky enough to put down a deposit at a nearby AD. Does anyone know if the SBGW289 has a screw down crown? Unsure because 44GS hi beat references usually do, but this is the first 44GS case with the 9S64 inside. Might be a pain to wind if there’s a screw down crown.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Directly from Grand Seiko regarding crown.


----------



## John Price

whineboy said:


> I stand (even further) corrected.


You know, I make it my mission in life to correct you!


----------



## CydeWeys

fasteddiev0.0 said:


> Was lucky enough to put down a deposit at a nearby AD. Does anyone know if the SBGW289 has a screw down crown? Unsure because 44GS hi beat references usually do, but this is the first 44GS case with the 9S64 inside. Might be a pain to wind if there’s a screw down crown.


It's already been confirmed it's not a screw-down crown, but GS is definitely too smart to do a manual wind with a screw-down crown. That goes against the basic tenets of usability that they're always laser-focused on.

What I like about this one is that it's thin, and has the push-pull crown, yet is still 100m WR! Lots of the elegance models are only 30m WR, so it's nice that this one has some serious depth to it.

Anyway, I put my deposit down for one of these.


----------



## super_purple

It's nice that the 44GS is being introduced in a smaller size and I hope this paves the way for more watches that suit people with smaller wrists. However, I don't think it's good value at USD 5,400 at all. 1,200 is not a very limited run, the movement is neither high beat nor spring drive, and the case back is solid.


----------



## Tpp3975

super_purple said:


> It's nice that the 44GS is being introduced in a smaller size and I hope this paves the way for more watches that suit people with smaller wrists. However, I don't think it's good value at USD 5,400 at all. 1,200 is not a very limited run, the movement is neither high beat nor spring drive, and the case back is solid.


The days of GS offering value are gone sadly. Even more sadly 5400 isn’t even that much for a GS. The watch is completely sold out so in this crazy market even though 1200 isn’t a small run, GS had no issue moving them at lightning speed. I don’t love GS new pricing structure. Even a 9F is 4500 these days but this model will probably hold its own resale wise. I think it’s a safe bet and I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t sell for at or above msrp on the secondary market. The GS online boutique called me yesterday with a question on my order. The guy was really nice and clearly loved GS. He said interest on this one was through the roof and told me how lucky I was to secure one fwiw. He wasn’t selling me anything and it could be puffery but he convinced me.


----------



## jazzy88

Pretty ecstatic to see this case in this size. I would hope they can somehow get an automatic in there to have a new midsize flagship to replace the discontinued sbgr251/253 series. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Spytap

Liscon said:


> Probably not a popular opinion but would love to see GS put a 9f in this and make it even thinner, with or without a date 👌


Seems more popular than my opinion, which is I'd love to see a clean dial like this (no numbers, no date, no PR) in a 40mm Spring Drive with 100M+ WR. I'd buy that tomorrow, but I often feel like I'm the only one looking for that specific daily driver watch.


----------



## CydeWeys

Spytap said:


> Seems more popular than my opinion, which is I'd love to see a clean dial like this (no numbers, no date, no PR) in a 40mm Spring Drive with 100M+ WR. I'd buy that tomorrow, but I often feel like I'm the only one looking for that specific daily driver watch.


I think many people can get onboard with most of that, but when I think daily driver watch, I'm definitely thinking of one that has a date. No-date seems better for a dressy watch, like SBGW289.


----------



## Spytap

CydeWeys said:


> ...when I think daily driver watch, I'm definitely thinking of one that has a date. No-date seems better for a dressy watch...


Dunno, the OP41 seems like the quintessential Daily Driver, and that's got no date. But I get that everyone has their preferences. For me, GMT would be the more useful complication for planning ET/PT/UK calls, and I rarely need to know what the date is _today._


----------



## Tpp3975

Spytap said:


> Dunno, the OP41 seems like the quintessential Daily Driver, and that's got no date. But I get that everyone has their preferences. For me, GMT would be the more useful complication for planning ET/PT/UK calls, and I rarely need to know what the date is _today._


agreed. Please take all date complications out to the shed and shoot them. If I need to know the date, that’s what my phone is for. Stop cluttering my beautiful watch dials.


----------



## One-Seventy

Domo said:


> Au contraire, thanks to the 6S chrono heritage of the 9S baseplate, a power reserve is very doable, but it's positioned at 3 o'clock. They exist from the past (9S67, as used in the SBGL series) and also much more recently with the 9S63, used in the SBGK series


That's interesting, I did not know that. I should look a bit more closely as the SD movement architectures (a rabbit hole down which I am yet to disappear).


----------



## One-Seventy

Spytap said:


> Seems more popular than my opinion, which is I'd love to see a clean dial like this (no numbers, no date, no PR) in a 40mm Spring Drive with 100M+ WR. I'd buy that tomorrow, but I often feel like I'm the only one looking for that specific daily driver watch.


You would be very much in the minority there, yes, although generally speaking your choice of quality date-less watches has never been better.


----------



## lehippi

GS is coming closer and closer to releasing my ideal modern GS. Ideally it would be a 44GS style case with a manual wind movement, with a display caseback of course (I cannot understand why they decided to hide the movement with the SBGW289), not too big (40mm and under) and of course as thin as possible (under 12mm come on!)

The one thing I really want is for them to release a new manual wind movement that shows more of the movement (no more 3/4 plate please!) with better accuracy (how about +3/-3 when active on the wrist instead of the +10/-1). Simple dial, nothing too crazy. Power reserve and date optional.

Are my desires realistic? Considering GS is continuing to put the 9s64 into these new cases I'm thinking it's going to be awhile before they release a new movement...


----------



## jazzy88

lehippi said:


> GS is coming closer and closer to releasing my ideal modern GS.
> …
> Are my desires realistic? Considering GS is continuing to put the 9s64 into these new cases I'm thinking it's going to be awhile before they release a new movement...


We all have our unrealistic desires… mine being for an automatic in there and a new line of 44gs flagships. 

I think the 9SA series of movements is confusing since it is yet to be deployed to more than a few watches but will likely spread to more in the next few years. I would love to see a 28800bph manual or auto version of that series for flagship watches. It would probably be the only way to have a thin watch at this case size, particularly if you want a display back. I only worry that the thinness of that movement series was achieved by flattening it, so I doubt it would even fit into a 36.5mm case, much less with a date wheel, without serious modifications. 

The 9s65 37mm watches were thicker than many divers, which was my main reason for not getting one. So this feels close but still a bit far from my unrealistic desires. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tun

I placed a pre-order for SBGW289 yesterday as I was notified that it was available again. In my opinion, it is one of the nicest GS release due to 44GS case with modern specifications, smaller case size and thinner case profile! Can’t wait to receive the watch.


----------



## quasitime

I appreciate that they seemed to release the SBGW289 in batches this time, at least with the online boutique.


----------



## TraserH3

Tun said:


> I placed a pre-order for SBGW289 yesterday as I was notified that it was available again. In my opinion, it is one of the nicest GS release due to 44GS case with modern specifications, smaller case size and thinner case profile! Can’t wait to receive the watch.


agreed! The 44GS case design was always meant to be for thin watches!


----------



## bibbibart

On May 1st there will be released a new LE of 50 pcs of an SBGE model for one of the Japanese ADs. 

This will be a Spring Drive model, with a new dial in this serie. One “borrowed” from SBGN017 & SBGN025. 

The name of this LE will be “Shirasagi Feather”.


----------



## SISL

That's a pretty dial!


----------



## bibbibart

Yep. It relates to some sort of a Japanese feast. I believe.


----------



## thewatchidiot

I like the dial but find the date cutout looks unfinished. Or maybe the photo distorts it


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Gebbeth

Looks kinda like the Mt Iwate dial.


----------



## Domo

bibbibart said:


> On May 1st there will be released a new LE of 50 pcs of an SBGE model for one of the Japanese ADs.
> 
> This will be a Spring Drive model, with a new dial in this serie. One “borrowed” from SBGN017 & SBGN025.
> 
> The name of this LE will be “Shirasagi Feather”.


Mmmmm I see a gold seconds hand. I like


----------



## poofoot

Tun said:


> I placed a pre-order for SBGW289 yesterday as I was notified that it was available again. In my opinion, it is one of the nicest GS release due to 44GS case with modern specifications, smaller case size and thinner case profile! Can’t wait to receive the watch.


Was this in the US? Curious where these are still available for preorder (local AD said it was sold out). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

One more shot of the LE SBGE.


----------



## quasitime

lehippi said:


> GS is coming closer and closer to releasing my ideal modern GS. Ideally it would be a 44GS style case with a manual wind movement, with a display caseback of course (I cannot understand why they decided to hide the movement with the SBGW289), not too big (40mm and under) and of course as thin as possible (under 12mm come on!)
> 
> The one thing I really want is for them to release a new manual wind movement that shows more of the movement (no more 3/4 plate please!) with better accuracy (how about +3/-3 when active on the wrist instead of the +10/-1). Simple dial, nothing too crazy. Power reserve and date optional.
> 
> Are my desires realistic? Considering GS is continuing to put the 9s64 into these new cases I'm thinking it's going to be awhile before they release a new movement...


I think we're on the same page here. Though I do want my PR on the back under the display caseback. I want a clear and unobstructed view of the movement also.


----------



## bibbibart

All in all pretty disappointing IMHO.


----------



## BryanUsrey1

Oh wow. I was expecting something a bit different to be honest. I still look forward to seeing it in person though. 

I love the dial, but on a sports style watch with that bezel, it's not to my taste. 

I also wish they would stop it with the power reserve on the dial, but we can't have everything.


----------



## Domo

bibbibart said:


> All in all pretty disappointing IMHO.


It's nice, that's obviously an awful photo of it. I think the recycled black/blue bezel was a mistake, something gold, or maybe all black with gold numerals would have been much more interesting


----------



## deuxani

bibbibart said:


> All in all pretty disappointing IMHO.


It looks reallly thick again. GS needs to start slimming down their movements a lot.


----------



## One-Seventy

deuxani said:


> It looks reallly thick again. GS needs to start slimming down their movements a lot.


It's the same case as existing GMT Spring Drive with rotating bezel. But actually GS has already started to reduce movement thickness. The newer 9RA movements are thinner by nearly a millimetre but have 120 hours of PR.

However, they were not that thick to begin with. The older 9R6 Spring Drive GMT movement is reportedly 5.8mm thick. That's thinner than any comparable Omega, Tudor or Rolex movement. Instead, the 14.7mm depth of the SD Sport GMT family, of which this watch is a member, is due to a combination of factors: the 200m resistance rating; thick caseback crystal; tall dial markers; GMT hand at the bottom of the stack which needs to clear the PR meter as well as the markers; a rehaut deep enough to take readable 24h markings; and a dead straight (uncurved) seconds hand which means the domed crystal has to sit pretty tall in order to clear it completely. 

However, if this model is revised in future with the new movement but everything else the same, its depth will reduce to around 14mm. That's definitely a classic set of proportions given the 44mm width.


----------



## deuxani

That’s a nice and accurate explanation. It’s just that I personally start to dislike thick watches. Recently I tried on a couple of Zeniths (Chronomaster Sport and Original, Defy Skyline, etc) and they are so thick on the wrist. And they are thinner than these almost 15mm Grand Seiko’s. My White Birch is on the limit of acceptable at 11.7mm. That’s why I mentioned it, these 44mm x 14.7mm are monsters on wrists of the majority of the population.


----------



## matthew P

I've read that the average wrist is 7 1/4 inch...... so for a large percentage of people this will present as a large watch at 44mm/15mm thick.

I can see owning one large watch ( for me the 029 diver ) but Im questioning the market for these large "sport GMT's"

I woulnt want something that large on wrist for an extended travel trip


----------



## One-Seventy

deuxani said:


> That’s a nice and accurate explanation. It’s just that I personally start to dislike thick watches. Recently I tried on a couple of Zeniths (Chronomaster Sport and Original, Defy Skyline, etc) and they are so thick on the wrist. And they are thinner than these almost 15mm Grand Seiko’s. My White Birch is on the limit of acceptable at 11.7mm. That’s why I mentioned it, these 44mm x 14.7mm are monsters on wrists of the majority of the population.


The trouble there is you expected an automatic chronograph to be thin, and making them so involves at least five figures, often more . Of watches for mortals, the Zenith is actually one of the thinner ones around; the rest are either modular chronos, or miss out on one or two key features. The Chrono Original is thinner at 12.7mm and if that's too much, you may be better off with a simpler non-chrono watch with minimal WR and a superthin crystal. Or the Bulgari Octo Finissimo chrono - 7mm thin, and the world record holder by a massive margin - is $19,000.

BTW the quoted thickness of the Defy Skyline is 11.2. Automatic steel sports watches with chunky integrated bracelets and at least 100m of WR don't get much thinner. Try the outgoing Defy Classic at 10.7, if the microns are important - it's discontinuation has been announced but you may still find one in the retail chain


----------



## deuxani

One-Seventy said:


> The trouble there is you expected an automatic chronograph to be thin, and making them so involves at least five figures, often more . Of watches for mortals, the Zenith is actually one of the thinner ones around; the rest are either modular chronos, or miss out on one or two key features. The Chrono Original is thinner at 12.7mm and if that's too much, you may be better off with a simpler non-chrono watch with minimal WR and a superthin crystal. Or the Bulgari Octo Finissimo chrono - 7mm thin, and the world record holder by a massive margin - is $19,000.
> 
> BTW the quoted thickness of the Defy Skyline is 11.2. Automatic steel sports watches with chunky integrated bracelets and at least 100m of WR don't get much thinner. Try the outgoing Defy Classic at 10.7, if the microns are important - it's discontinuation has been announced but you may still find one in the retail chain


I guess you are right. Maybe my expectations are not mega realistic. I have been shopping higher tiers for a while, so around 10mm becomes more the norm. But almost 15mm is still too much don’t you think?
And yeah, the Chronomaster Original looked a lot thicker due to its smaller size, while it actually is rather thin for a chrono.

I do have to say that you can make a thick watch look and wear slimmer with the case design by making the case thinner, curving the lugs and having a thicker bezel instead. The Defy Skyline is huge on the wrist while the Classic sits much thinner, even though there is 1mm between them in thickness. I’ve compared the White Birch with the Skyline…. which is thicker?










They are both 11.6mm 😄

I also have a Tissot PRX and that wears so slim that it feels like it’s 3mm thinner.
Also comparing the Daytona to the Chronomaster Sport it felt like the Sport was 2mm thicker.











About the Grand Seiko though, as prices are creeping up, you start comparing the GMT’s to Rolex and then a 2,5mm difference in thickness is just too much.

I’ve checked out the Octo a couple of times, but it wears too large, almost like a huge bracelet. When a 38mm or even 36mm comes out, I will get one 😊


----------



## One-Seventy

deuxani said:


> About the Grand Seiko though, as prices are creeping up, you start comparing the GMT’s to Rolex and then a 2,5mm difference in thickness is just too much.


Rolex did do something enterprising when it moved its GMTs to a quickset 12h hand (before about 1983, there was no quickset adjustment for anything except the date). It shifted the 12h hand to the bottom, allowing it to sweep inside the space cleared by the dial markers and the 24h hand to skirt over the top. Before they did this, the GMT-Master was around 13mm thick, including its crystal (crystals are fair game; the high dome is there to clear the hands, just like a flatter sapphire crystal and thicker metal bezel). 

The GS has the more traditional arrangement in which the 24 hand comes first, and has to be raised above the dial surface to clear its (invariably taller) dial indexes. Then you have all the other hands. So the modern Rolex GMT needs a shallower rehaut than any GS GMT. Also, the GS GMTs have mostly double the water resistance, at 200m. Add this up, though, and it does translate to extra heft. 

And of course, another point against any GS is that you can actually buy them - something that's rapidly becoming a point that puts _any _watch out of favour, courtesy of brilliant WIS logic: "Why would I even consider this watch? Because I can actually buy one! Why would I want that? I only want what I can't have!!"


----------



## Tun

poofoot said:


> Was this in the US? Curious where these are still available for preorder (local AD said it was sold out).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I pre-ordered mine from the GS Boutique Au, but it is now SOLD OUT!


----------



## Tun

Someone got their hand on SBGW289 early in Japan. Not my photo. Credit to the OP on instagram.


----------



## NightScar

__
http://instagr.am/p/CdD--75Jo54/


----------



## Gebbeth

matthew P said:


> I've read that the average wrist is 7 1/4 inch...... so for a large percentage of people this will present as a large watch at 44mm/15mm thick.
> 
> I can see owning one large watch ( for me the 029 diver ) but Im questioning the market for these large "sport GMT's"
> 
> I woulnt want something that large on wrist for an extended travel trip


Wait, "average" wrist size is 7.25 inches? That seems rather thick for the "average" wrist size. I would have thought 6.25 would be closer to average, especially for the left wrist.


----------



## munichblue

Gebbeth said:


> Wait, "average" wrist size is 7.25 inches? That seems rather thick for the "average" wrist size. I would have thought 6.25 would be closer to average, especially for the left wrist.


I was also very surprised by this statement. I might have guessed 6.5"ish….


----------



## Gebbeth

munichblue said:


> I was also very surprised by this statement. I might have guessed 6.5"ish….


I guess watch case size preference and wrist size are a matter of opinion, but at 7.25 average, even a 46mm Big Pilot should be fine for the "average" wrist (that is, if you trust Tim Mosso at Watchbox whenever he does a watch review).


----------



## munichblue

Gebbeth said:


> I guess watch case size preference and wrist size are a matter of opinion, but at 7.25 average, even a 46mm Big Pilot should be fine for the "average" wrist (that is, if you trust Tim Mosso at Watchbox whenever he does a watch review).


Tim has a very special wrist…. ☺


----------



## chas58

deuxani said:


> About the Grand Seiko though, as prices are creeping up, you start comparing the GMT’s to Rolex and then a 2,5mm difference in thickness is just too much.


Might be a rumor. GS were a bargain 4 years ago, and those watches are still available at that price. Yes, they have released more expensive offerings. It would be silly of them not to with Rolex abandoning the under 10K Stainless Steel market.




matthew P said:


> I've read that the average wrist is 7 1/4 inch...... so for a large percentage of people this will present as a large watch at 44mm/15mm thick.





Gebbeth said:


> Wait, "average" wrist size is 7.25 inches? That seems rather thick for the "average" wrist size. I would have thought 6.25 would be closer to average, especially for the left wrist.


I read an interesting study that had it as average 7" (for what it is worth).

The guy was trying to make a point that most people think they have small wrists. He said "49% of the people in the survey thought they had below average wrist sizes." It proved his point in his mind, but as an Engineer, I'm sitting there thinking - yep. that sounds about right. 49% of people on the planet have a wrist size that is below average... ;-)


----------



## poofoot

Tun said:


> I pre-ordered mine from the GS Boutique Au, but it is now SOLD OUT!


Oh nice congrats! Yeah I think im a few weeks late. Let me know if you change you’re mind, I’d be happy to take your spot 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TraserH3

Tun said:


> Someone got their hand on SBGW289 early in Japan. Not my photo. Credit to the OP on instagram.
> View attachment 16604006
> View attachment 16604009


Wish they used normal handset than these thin pointy ones that remind me of women’s watch


----------



## Tun

TraserH3 said:


> Wish they used normal handset than these thin pointy ones that remind me of women’s watch


It’s a reminiscence of OG 45GS character. We either love it or hate it.


----------



## Tun

poofoot said:


> Oh nice congrats! Yeah I think im a few weeks late. Let me know if you change you’re mind, I’d be happy to take your spot
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Haha


----------



## TraserH3

Tun said:


> It’s a reminiscence of OG 45GS character. We either love it or hate it.


Oh yes you’re right!


----------



## John Price

munichblue said:


> I was also very surprised by this statement. I might have guessed 6.5"ish….


Single data point with some extra info...

I'm 5' 9" and have a 7 1/4 inch wrist. I can and do comfortably wear 43mm watches (and yes, depends on lug length as we all know). 

And talking with the owners of our favourite watch shop here in Denver, the majority of the men buying watches want watches over 40mm. Most of the customers I've met there (in various events they've held over the years), wear 40mm + watches. 

That's not to say they don't have customers wanting smaller, but just that the majority do want bigger.


----------



## seaholt

Im still waiting on a diver with the "new" high-beat calibre (9SA5) 
Is it coming or not?


----------



## quasitime

NightScar said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CdD--75Jo54/


Anyone have guesses as to what this will be? I think the Grand Seiko logo probably has the best clue...


----------



## GrandWatcher

After missing out on the Lake Suwa SLGA007, I'm excited to see what the next blue dial from GS will be.

They mention 'Summer' and 'Rikka' in the teasers, perhaps the start of a new Seasons collection (which also began as a US-exclusive) inspired by seasonal creatures or elements.

I would like to see a blue GS 'Peacock'-styled dial in a 62GS case.


----------



## Gebbeth

GrandWatcher said:


> After missing out on the Lake Suwa SLGA007, I'm excited to see what the next blue dial from GS will be.
> 
> They mention 'Summer' and 'Rikka' in the teasers, perhaps the start of a new Seasons collection (which also began as a US-exclusive) inspired by seasonal creatures or elements.
> 
> I would like to see a blue GS 'Peacock'-styled dial in a 62GS case.


I thought they already had a peacock dial. Given Rikka is supposed to be a song bird, I'd say a less ornate pattern...perhaps layered, but not swirly like a peacock's feathers.


----------



## My Own Personal Melania

Hope it’s a titanium spring drive🤞


----------



## GrandWatcher

Gebbeth said:


> I thought they already had a peacock dial. Given Rikka is supposed to be a song bird, I'd say a less ornate pattern...perhaps layered, but not swirly like a peacock's feathers.


They do, the LE SBGJ227. I don't expect that dial pattern to be brought back but can only hope for something similar.


----------



## SISL

We'll know tonight. My bet is a blue version of the new GMT SBGE283/5, although the weak point here is that the release would not fit the rikka season.


----------



## GrandWatcher

The SBGW239 "Oruri".

37mm

Manual wind

Blue sunray dial

On my phone so unable to upload photos. First impression, appears to be a blue version of the SBGW273 / 275 / 277 which are also US exclusives. Described as a collaboration with a Japanese artist but I fail to see any creativity.


----------



## NightScar

__
http://instagr.am/p/CdJy5fsv60F/


----------



## quakeroatmeal

Eh.


----------



## CarbonPrevails

As usual it’s impossible to tell how nice the dial will be with these press photos. I really wish Grand Seiko would release actual pictures of their watches instead of these pointless press photos. 



NightScar said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CdJy5fsv60F/
> 
> 
> View attachment 16609924


----------



## NightScar

CarbonPrevails said:


> As usual it’s impossible to tell how nice the dial will be with these press photos. I really wish Grand Seiko would release actual pictures of their watches instead of these pointless press photos.



i edited the post and added a photo from toppers ig


----------



## NightScar

GS website also has this pic


----------



## My Own Personal Melania

Beautiful dial and great size. We do not yet comprehend the full beauty of this dial. But this is not a titanium 9ra2!! Hattori, we need more thin spring drive sports watches in titanium PLEASE (patek, lange, vacheron all doing more titanium while GS does LESS). It’s been DECADES OF WAITING


----------



## quasitime

I'm sure it's a great watch, not terribly interesting though.


----------



## SISL

Not an ugly watch.


----------



## Tpp3975

NightScar said:


> GS website also has this pic


That one looks a lot more interesting. Gorgeous color.


----------



## NightScar

in motion



__
http://instagr.am/p/CdJ8LfzusiB/


----------



## tfost

Nice dial, but not very legible in that video, IMO.


----------



## Domo

Niiice. Now that's it's happened, it's more surprising they didn't do a nice blue dial earlier given they've recently tried everything under the sun with the SBGWs


----------



## deuxani

NightScar said:


> in motion
> 
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CdJ8LfzusiB/


It’s probably because of the lighting but that dial is illegible. I hope they release a light green sunburst too.


----------



## Gebbeth

I am not terribly excited by this release. Although still a huge fan of the company, I am not a fan of these 36-37mm releases thus far.


----------



## One-Seventy

My Own Personal Melania said:


> Beautiful dial and great size. We do not yet comprehend the full beauty of this dial. But this is not a titanium 9ra2!! Hattori, we need more thin spring drive sports watches in titanium PLEASE (patek, lange, vacheron all doing more titanium while GS does LESS). It’s been DECADES OF WAITING


Patek, Lange etc all natural competitors to GS...?

Meanwhile Zenith has just binned its last titanium sports watch. JLC offers only one as far as I can see, and Rolex doesn't offer any. In fact it's only Omega that offers more than a few titanium variants. Grand Seiko has 14.

Oh wait, _I _get it


----------



## BarracksSi

deuxani said:


> It’s probably because of the lighting but that dial is illegible. I hope they release a light green sunburst too.


 I liked how it looked, too, until that clip. It's like they chose the wrong finish for the hands and markers. It would be so much easier to see if they were brushed like the hardware they put on their black dials.


----------



## My Own Personal Melania

One-Seventy said:


> Patek, Lange etc all natural competitors to GS...?
> 
> Meanwhile Zenith has just binned its last titanium sports watch. JLC offers only one as far as I can see, and Rolex doesn't offer any. In fact it's only Omega that offers more than a few titanium variants. Grand Seiko has 14.
> 
> Oh wait, _I _get it


Of course, Lange and GS are the natural choices for the discerning connoisseur.

Meanwhile Rolex doesn’t have to do anything cool as long as the madness continues. If they change anything they risk waking up the zombies. The following is reall footage from my local AD for a Yacht-Master II.








Rolex is dead! Long live Tudor! Tudor is not only using titanium but also SILVER


----------



## One-Seventy

My Own Personal Melania said:


> Rolex is dead! Long live Tudor! Tudor is not only using titanium but also SILVER


Silver, now there's an answer to a question that nobody asked


----------



## chas58

One-Seventy said:


> Silver, now there's an answer to a question that nobody asked


Is it a sin now that Sinn came out with a Silver watch case?


----------



## ts298

I’d love to see new 9Fs. Under $4k.


----------



## munichblue

I think it’s a gorgeous watch. It’s a pity that it is too small for me.


----------



## My Own Personal Melania

ts298 said:


> I’d love to see new 9Fs. Under $4k.


And with a display caseback


----------



## chas58




----------



## Gebbeth

Yeah, I don't get the song bird reference. The dial is blue. Some birds are blue. Okay. Anything more than that?

The sky is blue on a good day. Oh, they already did that, and better.

Water can be blue. They did that, and better.

A frozen lake might have blue tones. They did that, and better.

Blue can be blue. They did that, and frankly, better.


----------



## SISL

I wonder why the new SBGW279 is $200 cheaper than the SBGW283/5...?


----------



## Xhantos

SISL said:


> I wonder why the new SBGW279 is $200 cheaper than the SBGW283/5...?


SBGW231 is priced at $4300, basically the same watch with a different dial. So, I guess it is the dial.









SBGW231G | Grand Seiko


A 3-day power reserve with lasting quality




www.grand-seiko.com









404 Page Not Found | Grand Seiko


Grand Seiko official site. Made by hand for those who value perfection. Grand Seiko raises the pure essentials of watchmaking to the level of art.




www.grand-seiko.com












SBGW283G | Grand Seiko


The natural world is ever-present at the Grand Seiko Studio Shizukuishi, where this watch and all other mechanical Grand Seiko watches are made. The studio is tucked away in a quiet forest in northern Japan with the 2,000 meter high Mt. Iwate on the skyline, so it is no surprise that the team of...




www.grand-seiko.com


----------



## Watchyouloved

The SBGW231 and this case line is basically GS’s seiko 5 sport 😂


----------



## My Own Personal Melania

Watchyouloved said:


> The SBGW231 and this case line is basically GS’s seiko 5 sport 😂


Pray tell; 3 of the 5 eponymous pillars of Seiko 5 are automatic winding, date complication, and water resistance, none of which are shared with the SBGW231.


----------



## Watchyouloved

My Own Personal Melania said:


> Pray tell; 3 of the 5 eponymous pillars of Seiko 5 are automatic winding, date complication, and water resistance, none of which are shared with the SBGW231.


I didn’t mean it literally….I meant it as it’s bread and butter and 1000 different variations and affordable entry into the brand…come on now!


----------



## One-Seventy

chas58 said:


> Is it a sin now that Sinn came out with a Silver watch case?


They're only doing what theyre supposed to - chase whatever's hot and noisy on Instagram.

Zenith came out with a silver-cased Pilot five years ago, and B&R with a rather fine pocket watch-inspired watch about a decade ago, made of Argentium, which is finer than 925. The silence was deafening because it's got nothing to do with the material, just the brand. In fact several brands have made silver watches in recent years. But the Black Bay Company could make the next Black Bay out of coal, and after reach for the tissues the influencers would be falling over each other to tell us it's a game-changer, it's iconic material, how did we manage without a coal watch before, etc. As predictable as night following day.


----------



## chas58

One-Seventy said:


> They're only doing what theyre supposed to - chase whatever's hot and noisy on Instagram.
> 
> Zenith came out with a silver-cased Pilot five years ago, and B&R with a rather fine pocket watch-inspired watch about a decade ago, made of Argentium, which is finer than 925. The silence was deafening because it's got nothing to do with the material, just the brand. In fact several brands have made silver watches in recent years. But the Black Bay Company could make the next Black Bay out of coal, and after reach for the tissues the influencers would be falling over each other to tell us it's a game-changer, it's iconic material, how did we manage without a coal watch before, etc. As predictable as night following day.


True Dat. and give it about two years and people will be unload them for the next latest thing in the rotation.

That said the BB58-925 gets the most wrist time in my collection. Its the ideal size, ideal proportions (something they miss on sometimes), great legibility, and that "je ne sais quoi" that a black or blue stainless steel will never have.


----------



## My Own Personal Melania

One-Seventy said:


> They're only doing what theyre supposed to - chase whatever's hot and noisy on Instagram.
> 
> Zenith came out with a silver-cased Pilot five years ago, and B&R with a rather fine pocket watch-inspired watch about a decade ago, made of Argentium, which is finer than 925. The silence was deafening because it's got nothing to do with the material, just the brand. In fact several brands have made silver watches in recent years. But the Black Bay Company could make the next Black Bay out of coal, and after reach for the tissues the influencers would be falling over each other to tell us it's a game-changer, it's iconic material, how did we manage without a coal watch before, etc. As predictable as night following day.


Sounds like you’re researching Instagram very closely. Keep up the good work!


----------



## One-Seventy

My Own Personal Melania said:


> Sounds like you’re researching Instagram very closely. Keep up the good work!


Nope. The world doesn't revolve around it .


----------



## SISL

Just got notification that my SBGW285 shipped today. I should have it by Monday...


----------



## 6L35

One-Seventy said:


> Patek, Lange etc all natural competitors to GS...?
> 
> Meanwhile Zenith has just binned its last titanium sports watch. JLC offers only one as far as I can see, and Rolex doesn't offer any. In fact it's only Omega that offers more than a few titanium variants. Grand Seiko has 14.
> 
> Oh wait, _I _get it


IMHO, the recent trend of rubber straps in sport watches has diluted the need for lighter metal cases and bracelets, so the titanium is being expelled slowly from the equation.

I bought my Longines Spirit Chronograph with the steel bracelet and their 186 g feel sometimes appallingly heavy. Last Friday I swapped the bracelet by a strap and now the 135 g feel much lighter.

I mean that you don’t need a light material for the case when the strap is light.


----------



## MstrDabbles

Hope this photo from the event does a better job at showing the dial. It’s actually quite legible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GrandWatcher

Gorgeous blue.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Some pics of the SBGE285 and the SBGE283 taken at the GS Boutique Bangkok last Sunday. Wrist size 16cm / 6.5 inches. I already posted my SLGA015 pics in the SLGA015 thread.

The GMTs are nice enough and light but didn't really impress me either tbh. 


I'm not such a big fan of the snowflake texture to begin with and the black one doesn't have any texture or pattern so I find it a bit bland. 

For a 41mm, they felt sort of large.


----------



## Domo

Two new SD GMTs, SBGE279/281


----------



## tfost

^^^ those look amazing — love the skeleton GMT hand (at the arrow)


----------



## bibbibart

By this time of the year we would have already seen a new Ginza model. Takes quite a long time this year…


----------



## erasershavings

thanks for sharing. havent seen many pics of the black one since the press release. Was the black dial bland? Ive read that it has a semi gloss finish which i thought would be quite appealing



Euron Greyjoy said:


> Some pics of the SBGE285 and the SBGE283 taken at the GS Boutique Bangkok last Sunday. Wrist size 16cm / 6.5 inches. I already posted my SLGA015 pics in the SLGA015 thread.
> 
> The GMTs are nice enough and light but didn't really impress me either tbh.
> 
> 
> I'm not such a big fan of the snowflake texture to begin with and the black one doesn't have any texture or pattern so I find it a bit bland.
> 
> For a 41mm, they felt sort of large.
> 
> 
> View attachment 16620449
> 
> View attachment 16620450
> 
> View attachment 16620448


----------



## bibbibart

bibbibart said:


> By this time of the year we would have already seen a new Ginza model. Takes quite a long time this year…


Am I a prophet or what…?  

Here we go - a new Ginza model. And what a model - like it or not but it is a GS Tiffany Blue!


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

erasershavings said:


> thanks for sharing. havent seen many pics of the black one since the press release. Was the black dial bland? Ive read that it has a semi gloss finish which i thought would be quite appealing


Bland for me personally because it has no texture or pattern and I love that, all my GS have different patterns on the dial. 

Other than that the dial is a nice, deep black. 

I was all over the SLGA015 so I didn't pay too much attention to the rest


----------



## Gebbeth

bibbibart said:


> Am I a prophet or what…?
> 
> Here we go - a new Ginza model. And what a model - like it or not but it is a GS Tiffany Blue!


I actually like this, but that "Tiffany" blue has so much baggage now.


----------



## John Price

I'll withhold judgement until I see better, real life photos, videos but based on that photo I'd say the Prospex Alpinist Ginza has a nicer looking dial.


----------



## ts298

Wow. The white/silver GMT appears to have the Kira Zuri pattern, is 40 mm, 100m resistant, and has a capped second hand, AND is priced well!


----------



## SISL

SBGW285, just received.


----------



## Domo

SISL said:


> SBGW285, just received.
> View attachment 16627727


Very cool. You should take some more (read: better) photos and get some light on it and start a thread. Not much around about that lil beauty


----------



## bibbibart

Today many real life photos appear over IG of the GS. As of today, 5 Ginza boutiques started taking deposits for this watch. 

The more photos I see, the more I am positively intrigued by this piece. And no - I don’t care it resembles tiffanies of this world. It is simply cute. 

Judge yourselves, here come the photos.


----------



## Gebbeth

Just too close.


----------



## Joe90

Btw I think it’s too blue to be called Tiffany blue.

I think it warrants not being called that…but just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## xian

The question I have is whether scalpers will snap these up just to flip them as they’re close enough to being the right shade of blue.


----------



## daoster408

xian said:


> The question I have is whether scalpers will snap these up just to flip them as they’re close enough to being the right shade of blue.


260 pieces, Ginza exclusive. Even if it was another color, chances are the value will be high.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## CydeWeys

Domo said:


> Two new SD GMTs, SBGE279/281
> View attachment 16620693
> View attachment 16620694


Wow, SBGE279 is very similar to SBGE249 (which I have). It really comes down to a different dial texture (but still same color), and fewer blued hands.


----------



## Loevhagen

bibbibart said:


> Today many real life photos appear over IG of the GS. As of today, 5 Ginza boutiques started taking deposits for this watch.
> 
> The more photos I see, the more I am positively intrigued by this piece. And no - I don’t care it resembles tiffanies of this world. It is simply cute.
> 
> Judge yourselves, here come the photos.


Love the 62GS case in these EVO9-days. 

However, to bad it does not have the cap on the hand stack.

Besides; that exact blue dial color is kinda "outdated" and has too much _baggage_ as someone said before.

It's a pass for me. Wouldn't buy even if it was a regular production model. Oh well.


----------



## bibbibart

Sure it carries a lot of baggage. Still, what I like, is the streets’ pattern. And the fact that they devised a new kind of dial. + luckily enough this is not an evolution 9 release…


----------



## chatman

bibbibart said:


> Am I a prophet or what…?
> 
> Here we go - a new Ginza model. And what a model - like it or not but it is a GS Tiffany Blue!


Ugh... this nasty logo etched into the display case back. _*Why*_ do they keep doing that stuff?


----------



## chatman

bibbibart said:


> Today many real life photos appear over IG of the GS. As of today, 5 Ginza boutiques started taking deposits for this watch.
> 
> The more photos I see, the more I am positively intrigued by this piece. And no - I don’t care it resembles tiffanies of this world. It is simply cute.
> 
> Judge yourselves, here come the photos.


Love the Coral OP41. I am too scared to wear mine out anymore...


----------



## bibbibart

chatman said:


> Love the Coral OP41. I am too scared to wear mine out anymore...


Yeah, now wonder - it screams „I’m expensive” from miles!


----------



## My Own Personal Melania

GS should make a spring drive regulateur. Like with everything else they’re not doing, it’s a no-brainer to put emphasis on the seconds hand when the seconds hand illustrates your company’s unique technical supremacy


----------



## matthew P

SISL said:


> SBGW285, just received.


more pics of this one please,,,, the green seems to vary a lot depending on lighting


----------



## drhr

matthew P said:


> more pics of this one please,,,, the green seems to vary a lot depending on lighting


Yeah but more darkish green no matter, at least when I try diff lighting . . .


----------



## SISL

As requested.


----------



## matthew P

awesome pictures guys..... the green seems to pop in sunlight and become a lovely deep green in indirect light.
fantastic piece, congrats


----------



## Domo

Yeah thanks, it's really nice guys. Usually dark coloured dials from GS turn really rich in sunlight. I've always been a bracelet guy but that green croc strap is something else


----------



## CydeWeys

My Own Personal Melania said:


> GS should make a spring drive regulateur. Like with everything else they’re not doing, it’s a no-brainer to put emphasis on the seconds hand when the seconds hand illustrates your company’s unique technical supremacy


Wouldn't that place more of an emphasis on the minutes hand though? Are you just asking for a spring drive small seconds subdial generally, and wouldn't that decrease the emphasis on the seconds hand?


----------



## My Own Personal Melania

CydeWeys said:


> Wouldn't that place more of an emphasis on the minutes hand though? Are you just asking for a spring drive small seconds subdial generally, and wouldn't that decrease the emphasis on the seconds hand?


You’re absolutely right. I’m a fool who got carried away imagining a big seconds hand and small hours and minutes subregisters.


----------



## TraserH3

bibbibart said:


> Today many real life photos appear over IG of the GS. As of today, 5 Ginza boutiques started taking deposits for this watch.
> 
> The more photos I see, the more I am positively intrigued by this piece. And no - I don’t care it resembles tiffanies of this world. It is simply cute.
> 
> Judge yourselves, here come the photos.



My god, I thought That light blue GS was someone’s photoshop joke! It’s actually real?! 🙅🏻🙅🏻🙅🏻


----------



## whineboy

The color is fine, but the Ginza street map pattern (I’m guessing) is just not for me. 


Having a great time….


----------



## dayandnight

Like the color, just not the pattern. Maybe they will release the same color in a different pattern or texture


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## whineboy

Hmmm, I put the watch face image next to a map of Ginza centered on the Wako Clock Tower (X marks the spot), maybe I'm not crazy. Maybe the cannon pinion marks the spot of the Wako tower?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

whineboy said:


> Hmmm, I put the watch face image next to a map of Ginza centered on the Wako Clock Tower (X marks the spot), maybe I'm not crazy. Maybe the cannon pinion marks the spot of the Wako tower?
> 
> View attachment 16635630
> 
> 
> View attachment 16635631


This is Ginza. Let's get fancy.










The dial makes a faithful map but seems kind of simplistic. I bet the designer forgot about his deadline and did a Photoshop layer trace the night before it was due for submission.


----------



## creepy ross

I like the pattern. Seems like a playful departure from the typical GS dial, which lean more intricate and sophisticated. It's fun, but not too cartoony and they didn't clutter the dial with additional colors, landmarks, etc. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

creepy ross said:


> I like the pattern. Seems like a playful departure from the typical GS dial, which lean more intricate and sophisticated. It's fun, but not too cartoony and they didn't clutter the dial with additional colors, landmarks, etc.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Correct - I perceive it as a funny take from GS on the „popular” colorway. A dial which has never been presented by GS (typewise). 

And let’s remember - this is merely a watchmaking, not cartography


----------



## SL1210

My Own Personal Melania said:


> GS should make a spring drive regulateur. Like with everything else they’re not doing, it’s a no-brainer to put emphasis on the seconds hand when the seconds hand illustrates your company’s unique technical supremacy


"I really don't care" this is the auto 'win' of every argument ... but


bibbibart said:


> Today many real life photos appear over IG of the GS. As of today, 5 Ginza boutiques started taking deposits for this watch.
> 
> The more photos I see, the more I am positively intrigued by this piece. And no - I don’t care it resembles tiffanies of this world. It is simply cute.
> 
> Judge yourselves, here come the photos.


Lovely comparison. Thank you for sharing. Nice colour Rolex but the GS Hibeat still is preferable.


----------



## whineboy

Chrono Brewer said:


> This is Ginza. Let's get fancy.
> 
> View attachment 16635751
> 
> 
> The dial makes a faithful map but seems kind of simplistic. I bet the designer forgot about his deadline and did a Photoshop layer trace the night before it was due for submission.


Well done, sir. 
Now I am wondering if the pinion center is the Ginza 5 boutique. I need to get a life.


----------



## Gebbeth

It would have been nicer if they etched the pattern into the dial to give it some asymmetric texture. This almost looks like the phoned it in.


----------



## jazzy88

Love the map dial concept. Can’t get behind the color, though I am sure it’ll sell. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chrono Brewer

I never understood trying to make an emotional connection in product design with some arbitrary piece of municipal info. The lines of a road map as watch dial art? To whom is that a selling point?

It's like the Jeep Gladiator having a heart with the factory's phone area code imprinted on its bed. I'm just left asking, "Who actually wants this piece of flare?" Ends up being a distraction at best and a point against at worst. Engineers/designers could impress me more by actually addressing flaws, like an offroading truck that doesn't even have a dead pedal. Or the towing package not even including a trailer brake control.

Though back on topic, I don't have many gripes with Grand Seiko other than thick cases. And recycling dials. And endless limited editions.


----------



## Watchyouloved

Chrono Brewer said:


> I never understood trying to make an emotional connection in product design with some arbitrary piece of municipal info. The lines of a road map as watch dial art? To whom is that a selling point?
> 
> It's like the Jeep Gladiator having a heart with the factory's phone area code imprinted on its bed. I'm just left asking, "Who actually wants this piece of flare?" Ends up being a distraction at best and a point against at worst. Engineers/designers could impress me more by actually addressing flaws, like an offroading truck that doesn't even have a dead pedal. Or the towing package not even including a trailer brake control.
> 
> Though back on topic, I don't have many gripes with Grand Seiko other than thick cases. And recycling dials. And endless limited editions.
> 
> View attachment 16641172


I just wish they’d bring back the land cruiser. Now they’re forcing customers to get the LX600 but I loved the low key aspect of the LC and I like the overall design way better than LX


----------



## bibbibart

One needs to be Japanese to understand their habits. It is a fantastic nation with loooiong history and tradition. They, for one, believe that each “thing” has a sort of soul. Connection to their beloved city district is no wonder. 

Western world and Japan are light years apart culture-wise.


----------



## soursenseless

Whoops wrong thread


----------



## Losoboy

Has this been announced? Found this on the site today. Another 44GS anniversary release, I assume.






404 Page Not Found | Grand Seiko


Grand Seiko official site. Made by hand for those who value perfection. Grand Seiko raises the pure essentials of watchmaking to the level of art.




www.grand-seiko.com


----------



## tfost

Haven’t seen that one—great find—love that dial, the texture and color and a 44gs case with a 9F— uh oh, now I’ve got to buy another watch….

Edit: and the blued seconds hand!


----------



## Losoboy

So far haven't seen pricing on this yet, hopefully it's below $4k. I'm pretty sure that's wishful thinking. Also wish they would use a see through caseback like the SBGV238. Otherwise there's also next year, which will be the 30th anniversary of the 9F.


----------



## bibbibart

IMHO it should cost in the $3.000 range. It is a quartz. HAQ but still quartz. Nice it has accuracy of -/+ 5 spy. And the 40 mm case. I’m „in”!

Heard it’ll be officially announced on Jun 7th. At least in Europe.


----------



## Bulovas&BoltActions

bibbibart said:


> IMHO it should cost in the $3.000 range. It is a quartz. HAQ but still quartz. Nice it has accuracy of -/+ 5 spy. And the 40 mm case. I’m „in”!
> 
> Heard it’ll be officially announced on Jun 7th. At least in Europe.


The regular SBGP001/003/005 are $3200USD, so I can't imagine this being below $4k between the fancy dial, VFA movement, and LE status.


----------



## DonJ53

and they still have not capped the seconds hand :-(


----------



## TraserH3

Bulovas&BoltActions said:


> The regular SBGP001/003/005 are $3200USD, so I can't imagine this being below $4k between the fancy dial, VFA movement, and LE status.


I’d call this “Special” grade if I were to use historical GS grade levels, not VFA.


----------



## Bulovas&BoltActions

TraserH3 said:


> I’d call this “Special” grade if I were to use historical GS grade levels, not VFA.


Seiko used VFA markings on their top of the line 38 and 39 series quartz movements in the early 70s. They later used 'Superior' for models with the highest level of adjustment. I guess it depends on which part of Seiko's history you want to use as a guide and how pedantic you're feeling.


----------



## TraserH3

Bulovas&BoltActions said:


> Seiko used VFA markings on their top of the line 38 and 39 series quartz movements in the early 70s. They later used 'Superior' for models with the highest level of adjustment. I guess it depends on which part of Seiko's history you want to use as a guide and how pedantic you're feeling.


 In modern times they’ve only ever used “VFA” on mechanical watches. So better designation is “Grand” or “Superior”
Im just trying to protect the special designation for VFA collectors.


----------



## Tpp3975

bibbibart said:


> IMHO it should cost in the $3.000 range. It is a quartz. HAQ but still quartz. Nice it has accuracy of -/+ 5 spy. And the 40 mm case. I’m „in”!
> 
> Heard it’ll be officially announced on Jun 7th. At least in Europe.


----------



## Tpp3975

The last few quartz GMT's were $4500 plus with the LE exceednig $5000. I'll be shocked if this comes in below that. Looks like a really cool piece and if the quartz keeps the price below $5k, then I'm in. I've been complaining about sky rocketing prices on GS for a while now so this is a nice gesture by them.


----------



## Sturmovik

Grand Seiko Heritage 9F Quartz Limited Edition SBGP017


Grand Seiko's award-winning dial is now available with a 9F movement Originally launched in 2018, the Grand Seiko "Kira-zuri" trio quickly became one of the brand's signature dials. But now for the first time, the stunning dial treatment has inspired the new SBGP017, a limited-edition 9F-quartz...




topperjewelers.com





Up on Topper's. Looks like $3,800 and display caseback according to the description. Quite tempting....


----------



## brianinCA

Sturmovik beat me to it. Looks like msrp is $3,800. Tempting indeed. I hope they continue to put different dials on the quartz 44GS models.


----------



## Tpp3975

brianinCA said:


> Sturmovik beat me to it. Looks like msrp is $3,800
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Heritage 9F Quartz Limited Edition SBGP017
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko's award-winning dial is now available with a 9F movement Originally launched in 2018, the Grand Seiko "Kira-zuri" trio quickly became one of the brand's signature dials. But now for the first time, the stunning dial treatment has inspired the new SBGP017, a limited-edition 9F-quartz...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topperjewelers.com


Tempting indeed. I need another blue watch like a hole in my head. I wonder if the quartz movement in low price will turn people off or make these even more popular.


----------



## Tpp3975

Tpp3975 said:


> Tempting indeed. I need another blue watch like a hole in my head. I wonder if the quartz movement in low price will turn people off or make these even more popular.


I am weak of the mind. Ordered!


----------



## My Own Personal Melania

bibbibart said:


> IMHO it should cost in the $3.000 range. It is a quartz. HAQ but still quartz. Nice it has accuracy of -/+ 5 spy. And the 40 mm case. I’m „in”!
> 
> Heard it’ll be officially announced on Jun 7th. At least in Europe.


Blue logo to match the blue hand is hot as ****. And display caseback quartz *😍*🥵


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Tpp3975 said:


> The last few quartz GMT's were $4500 plus with the LE exceednig $5000. I'll be shocked if this comes in below that. Looks like a really cool piece and if the quartz keeps the price below $5k, then I'm in. I've been complaining about sky rocketing prices on GS for a while now so this is a nice gesture by them.


It's 3800$ here, not sure if this is official:









Grand Seiko Heritage 9F Quartz Limited Edition SBGP017


Grand Seiko's award-winning dial is now available with a 9F movement Originally launched in 2018, the Grand Seiko "Kira-zuri" trio quickly became one of the brand's signature dials. But now for the first time, the stunning dial treatment has inspired the new SBGP017, a limited-edition 9F-quartz...




topperjewelers.com


----------



## Tpp3975

Tpp3975 said:


> I am weak of the mind. Ordered!


Now I have to decide whether to keep the pink ltd edition or this one.


Euron Greyjoy said:


> It's 3800$ here, not sure if this is official:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Heritage 9F Quartz Limited Edition SBGP017
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko's award-winning dial is now available with a 9F movement Originally launched in 2018, the Grand Seiko "Kira-zuri" trio quickly became one of the brand's signature dials. But now for the first time, the stunning dial treatment has inspired the new SBGP017, a limited-edition 9F-quartz...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topperjewelers.com


yeah. What a pleasant surprise.


----------



## bibbibart

Just to give a hint how the HAQ exhibition caseback looks like.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

Tpp3975 said:


> Now I have to decide whether to keep the pink ltd edition or this one.
> 
> yeah. What a pleasant surprise.


Hey man, I'm in the exact same boat! I decided to get the pink on(still waiting) and then this fukin thing drops....

I'm trying to justify both but.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

bibbibart said:


> Just to give a hint how the HAQ exhibition caseback looks like.


Seeing a $1"SEIKO" battery inside a 4k watch weirds me out...They could've made the batter GS at least 😂

ps Also, that orange/copper log thing has a dent in it....


----------



## One-Seventy

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Seeing a $1"SEIKO" battery inside a 4k watch weirds me out...They could've made the batter GS at least 😂
> 
> ps Also, that orange/copper log thing has a dent in it....


"Orange/copper log thing", lol


----------



## tfost

Looks like Topper paused pre orders—already sold allocation?


----------



## Tpp3975

tfost said:


> Looks like Topper paused pre orders—already sold allocation?


For the pink ltd they told me they only were allocated a handful.


----------



## bibbibart

tfost said:


> Looks like Topper paused pre orders—already sold allocation?


They may have misfired with this one. The European premiere seems to be Jun 7th.


----------



## Tpp3975

bibbibart said:


> They may have misfired with this one. The European premiere seems to be Jun 7th.


I don’t think topper misfired. They are probably the largest GS dealer in the US. Anything is possible of course but if they misfired they would take the listing down entirely.


----------



## One-Seventy

This is how to do a quartz display back. You can't see the battery, _therefore it's not there _










(It uses a standard 90-cent Renata, same as the Breitling Colt. Grey premium is approx. 4x)


----------



## SKYWATCH007

One-Seventy said:


> This is how to do a quartz display back. You can't see the battery, _therefore it's not there _
> 
> View attachment 16653521
> 
> 
> (It uses a standard 50-cent Renata. Grey premium is approx. 4x)


See that's much nicer! The logs don't have any dents .....


----------



## bibbibart

Tpp3975 said:


> I don’t think topper misfired. They are probably the largest GS dealer in the US. Anything is possible of course but if they misfired they would take the listing down entirely.





Tpp3975 said:


> I don’t think topper misfired. They are probably the largest GS dealer in the US. Anything is possible of course but if they misfired they would take the listing down entirely.


I’m referring to taking preorders only. Did not mean breaching press embargo or else. Official product info is already available on the global GS website.


----------



## ts298

I can't tell if this watch has a screw-down crown; nonetheless, this is an amazing release.


----------



## Tpp3975

bibbibart said:


> I’m referring to taking preorders only. Did not mean breaching press embargo or else. Official product info is already available on the global GS website.


Gotcha. Yeah that’s possible. It’s also possible they got an initial allotment and are waiting for more.


----------



## bibbibart

Tpp3975 said:


> Gotcha. Yeah that’s possible. It’s also possible they got an initial allotment and are waiting for more.


All in all seems to be the hottest quartz ever.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Finally a HAQ a nature-inspired dial rather than just geometric designs. Looks like clouds.

Man, that would look great on my wife's wrist... might need to text my dealer.


----------



## drhanson

brianinCA said:


> Sturmovik beat me to it. Looks like msrp is $3,800. Tempting indeed. I hope they continue to put different dials on the quartz 44GS models.


+1 on the different dials, I'm hoping for a quartz 44GS with a _dark_ dial. What's with all these light, bright and pastel colors?


----------



## Tpp3975

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Hey man, I'm in the exact same boat! I decided to get the pink on(still waiting) and then this fukin thing drops....
> 
> I'm trying to justify both but.


But that will lead to divorce in my case.


----------



## Tpp3975

bibbibart said:


> I’m referring to taking preorders only. Did not mean breaching press embargo or else. Official product info is already available on the global GS website.


Well you may have been on to something. Because now it’s off the website entirely.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

Tpp3975 said:


> But that will lead to divorce in my case.


You can pretend the pink one is for her!


----------



## Tpp3975

SKYWATCH007 said:


> You can pretend the pink one is for her!


It’s an idea but after 15 years together she’ll see right through it.


----------



## duckmcf

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Seeing a $1"SEIKO" battery inside a 4k watch weirds me out...They could've made the batter GS at least 😂
> 
> ps Also, that orange/copper log thing has a dent in it....


They could just gold plate the battery….

Actually, let’s not give them ideas. That’d be all the excuse they’d need to charge $250 for a battery change…


----------



## Domo

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Seeing a $1"SEIKO" battery inside a 4k watch weirds me out...They could've made the batter GS at least 😂
> 
> ps Also, that orange/copper log thing has a dent in it....


I'll have you know it's a $5 "SEIKO" battery, sir


----------



## bibbibart

True, some companies can „do better” around batteries. Here a photo from recent Citizen release of their top 0100 quartz mechanism (accurate to 1s per year). The other truth beeing the fact it’s a 2.2mln¥ quartz… 

Credits to #plus9time from IG.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Seems GS accidentally published the incomplete product page, Topper took it as a green light, GS corrected, Topper took it down. Where did the rumor of a June 7 release come from?



bibbibart said:


> All in all seems to be the hottest quartz ever.


Agreed. Not seen another GS quartz I've liked more, and I've dug through the Plus9Time archives of every prior quartz model. Lion's mane + HAQ = gold.

I'm pulling the trigger. Looking forward to an evening out with the wife, me wearing the Lake Suwa while she wears this one.


----------



## bibbibart

I was informed of the June 7th by my long-time AD in Europe. It wasn’t the first time when I asked about a new GS release before they had any idea about. They asked rhe GS HQ in this country and got a reply “we will reveal it only on Jun 7th”.


----------



## SuperDadHK

Isn't it lion's mane?
The article was saying kira zuri...

Anyone have experience on both dial and don't mind to share your experience? Cheers!


----------



## Raindrops

bibbibart said:


> I was informed of the June 7th by my long-time AD in Europe. It wasn’t the first time when I asked about a new GS release before they had any idea about. They asked rhe GS HQ in this country and got a reply “we will reveal it only on Jun 7th”.


All info online, including a GS webpage I saw previously, has been removed. I asked my AD and was informed the launch will be Jul. Not sure which timeline is correct but will I will be keeping a lookout in early Jun for any news.


----------



## TraserH3

Anyone else just hate the different color seconds hand? GS over do it with the different color seconds hand on almost every model now!


----------



## Chrono Brewer

SuperDadHK said:


> Isn't it lion's mane?
> The article was saying kira zuri...
> 
> Anyone have experience on both dial and don't mind to share your experience? Cheers!


You're correct. Topper's page erroneously called it kira-zuri.

I'm surprised GS hasn't asked for photos of this SBGP017 to be removed from WUS like when they accidentally leaked SLGA015 a couple months ago.


----------



## bibbibart

Chrono Brewer said:


> You're correct. Topper's page erroneously called it kira-zuri.
> 
> I'm surprised GS hasn't asked for photos of this SBGP017 to be removed from WUS like when they accidentally leaked SLGA015 a couple months ago.


IMHO not only were they wrong about the dial motif but also about the accuracy. With the golden star at 6 it should be 5 sec per year, not the advertised 10s…

GS seems to stumble across its own legs recently.


----------



## SuperDadHK

Chrono Brewer said:


> You're correct. Topper's page erroneously called it kira-zuri.
> 
> I'm surprised GS hasn't asked for photos of this SBGP017 to be removed from WUS like when they accidentally leaked SLGA015 a couple months ago.


I think SLGA015 is much more high profile.
esp it was going to be shown on W&W, maybe there was NDA so nothing can be disclosed before the event.


----------



## SuperDadHK

the announcement is released









SBGP017G | Grand Seiko


The 55th anniversary of the 44GS design is celebrated in a watch inspired by the sea of clouds in Shinshu.




www.grand-seiko.com


----------



## Xhantos

SuperDadHK said:


> the announcement is released
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SBGP017G | Grand Seiko
> 
> 
> The 55th anniversary of the 44GS design is celebrated in a watch inspired by the sea of clouds in Shinshu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.grand-seiko.com












Explains earlier discrepancy, still funny 😂


----------



## Spytap

SuperDadHK said:


> the announcement is released
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SBGP017G | Grand Seiko
> 
> 
> The 55th anniversary of the 44GS design is celebrated in a watch inspired by the sea of clouds in Shinshu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.grand-seiko.com


Odd - it’s 404ing for me.


----------



## bibbibart

Spytap said:


> Odd - it’s 404ing for me.


Yes, again. It was “working” in the morning. There must be someone drunk behind the wheel at GS HQ.


----------



## One-Seventy

404 here, too. 

I'd pay money for a 9F GMT in the 44GS case. If rumours about the eventual discontinuation/update of the SBGN003-5 family become fact this year, maybe GS will take the opportunity to tighten up the range somewhat and expand use of the 44GS case.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

bibbibart said:


> Yes, again. It was “working” in the morning. There must be someone drunk behind the wheel at GS HQ.


I had a look while it was up -- still wasn't completely polished. The specs at the bottom still said "+/-10 sec per year" but the description said essentially to disregard the note below because that was the movement generally, not the quality control of this one specifically (+/-5 sec per year). Why they would bother putting a caveat/clarification and not just correct the error under the specs leaves me scratching my head. Somebody managing their site must be day-drinking.


----------



## feelinchill

One-Seventy said:


> 404 here, too.
> 
> I'd pay money for a 9F GMT in the 44GS case. If rumours about the eventual discontinuation/update of the SBGN003-5 family become fact this year, maybe GS will take the opportunity to tighten up the range somewhat and expand use of the 44GS case.


Is there any basis for the rumors about the SBGN003/005? I’ve seen mention as well but never any source. They seem to be pretty popular pieces. I agree a 44GS version would be sweet.


----------



## One-Seventy

I must take my own advice and not perpetuate rumours  but a couple of ADs have suggested that they are due for an update, late this year or next. One or two posters here also reported lack of availability, although that doesn't seem like anything more than a localised supply shortfall.

Nothing wrong with an improvement here and there (for example I doubt too many buyers would complain if they modified the case from 19 to 20mm lugs) but I hope this model, or something very like it, remains in the range. It's popular, and rightly so.


----------



## duckmcf

One-Seventy said:


> Nothing wrong with an improvement here and there (for example I doubt too many buyers would complain if they modified the case from 19 to 20mm lugs) but I hope this model, or something very like it, remains in the range. It's popular, and rightly so.


…a rotating bezel would be a nice update too…


----------



## CydeWeys

SGBP017 was just released. It's available to order now on the online boutique.









44GS 55th Anniversary Limited SBGP017 | GS9 Club | Grand Seiko


Discover the all new Grand Seiko SBGP017, a Limited Edition honoring 55 years of the 44GS and the Grand Seiko Style.




grandseikogs9club.com


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Released at noon Tokyo time on just the date @bibbibart said. I've got cash down.


----------



## bibbibart

Chrono Brewer said:


> Released at noon Tokyo time on just the date @bibbibart said. I've got cash down.


Yes, thanks Chrono Brewer for noting me. My sources at one of the ADs in Europe proved trustworthy. Again. 

A stunning quartz model. Lion’s mane looks fantastic on some of the photos/renders. And the transparent caseback reveals a wonderful movement. Only 3rd transparent quartz in GS’s history. And the 2nd one with blued screws. Just WOW. 

Last but not least - all this at a reasonable price.


----------



## Xhantos

So GS did not think of designing a database system where accuracy is better than 10 seconds per year and still haven't fixed this, LOL 😂 










Japanese version of the site again has a bit more information, 800 of the 2000 pieces are reserved for Japanese market and release-availability date is 8th of July.









SBGP017 | グランドセイコー公式サイト


信州の美しい「雲海」をダイヤルで表現した数量限定モデル




www.grand-seiko.com


----------



## Raindrops

Looks like the online purchase option is available only for the US? It is not available for Asia it seems.


----------



## Domo

Very nice, very nice indeed. *Blue* and *gold* on the front, *blue* and *gold* on the back


----------



## SuperDadHK

bibbibart said:


> Yes, thanks Chrono Brewer for noting me. My sources at one of the ADs in Europe proved trustworthy. Again.
> 
> A stunning quartz model. Lion’s mane looks fantastic on some of the photos/renders. And the transparent caseback reveals a wonderful movement. Only 3rd transparent quartz in GS’s history. And the 2nd one with blued screws. Just WOW.
> 
> Last but not least - all this at a reasonable price.


WOW, didn't notice the blue screws until reading your comment!
I recall SBGV238 to be another 9F with display back but that doesn't have blue screws. Curious to know which is the other one?


----------



## Bulovas&BoltActions

SuperDadHK said:


> WOW, didn't notice the blue screws until reading your comment!
> I recall SBGV238 to be another 9F with display back but that doesn't have blue screws. Curious to know which is the other one?


The SBGV019 had a display back too.


----------



## tfost

Sold out at the us online boutique.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Good lord that is beautiful.


----------



## bibbibart

Bulovas&BoltActions said:


> The SBGV019 had a display back too.


Yep. And the blued screws.


----------



## kashb

bibbibart said:


> Yep. And the blued screws.


Didn’t have blue screws from what pictures and video I’ve seen, unless they changed it.


----------



## Tpp3975

SuperDadHK said:


> the announcement is released
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SBGP017G | Grand Seiko
> 
> 
> The 55th anniversary of the 44GS design is celebrated in a watch inspired by the sea of clouds in Shinshu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.grand-seiko.com


Ordered. Must have for me.


----------



## Spytap

So what are the odds they follow the Birch release cadence and drop a similar Spring Drive in a few months' time?


----------



## bibbibart

kashb said:


> Didn’t have blue screws from what pictures and video I’ve seen, unless they changed it.


There you are - a photo of the SBGV019 caseback, taken from CH24.


----------



## Tanker G1

Spytap said:


> So what are the odds they follow the Birch release cadence and drop a similar Spring Drive in a few months' time?


I have the SD version. I still like the 5 spy 9F and 44GS case enough that I considered buying it anyway. It's no surprise these sold out quickly at $3,800. I emailed my AD to let me know if he gets one.


----------



## Tanker G1

Tanker G1 said:


> I have the SD version. I still like the 5 spy 9F and 44GS case enough that I considered buying it anyway. It's no surprise these sold out quickly at $3,800. I emailed my AD to let me know if he gets one.


Quoting myself to say my AD emailed back within minutes saying he had one left of the four they were allocated. I put a $500 deposit on it. I can't think of a better dial for my first 9F and the 5spy accuracy is icing on the cake!


----------



## kashb

bibbibart said:


> There you are - a photo of the SBGV019 caseback, taken from CH24.


Don’t think they are blue, just shadow. Review pics on line aren’t blue


----------



## kashb

kashb said:


> Don’t think they are blue, just shadow. Review pics on line aren’t blue


Some pics here,








Grand Seiko SBGV019 After 6 Weeks | Wrist Watch Forums


SBGV019 Movement: 9F82 Quartz 3 years battery life Accuracy +/-5secs/year Functions: Date Case: SS Bracelet: SS Lug Width: 19mm Water Resistanc




wristwatchforums.proboards.com


----------



## bibbibart

kashb said:


> Some pics here,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko SBGV019 After 6 Weeks | Wrist Watch Forums
> 
> 
> SBGV019 Movement: 9F82 Quartz 3 years battery life Accuracy +/-5secs/year Functions: Date Case: SS Bracelet: SS Lug Width: 19mm Water Resistanc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wristwatchforums.proboards.com


I give up - maybe I misinterpret something  Citation from the US GS9 Club marketing material:

This is only the third Grand Seiko with a 9F quartz caliber to feature a sapphire case back, the second of which to feature tempered blue screws.

Blue, red or yellow, it is a great watch.


----------



## kashb

bibbibart said:


> I give up - maybe I misinterpret something  Citation from the US GS9 Club marketing material:
> 
> This is only the third Grand Seiko with a 9F quartz caliber to feature a sapphire case back, the second of which to feature tempered blue screws.
> 
> Blue, red or yellow, it is a great watch.


Hmm maybe they are blue then, they just didn’t look it on some pics. Anyway I agree it’s a brilliant watch and ordered mine.


----------



## Gebbeth

They look like blued screws to me. There are some case back photos that make this clear.









FS: Grand Seiko Quartz SBGV019 | WatchCharts


FS: Grand Seiko Quartz SBGV019 Price: $2,499 This watch features a 38mm case and 100m of water resistance. The watch head is in 97% condition due to faint marks throughout the case. The bracelet is in 97% condition due to faint marks on the links.




watchcharts.com





Either way, nice watch.


----------



## Spytap

Tanker G1 said:


> I have the SD version. I still like the 5 spy 9F and 44GS case enough that I considered buying it anyway. It's no surprise these sold out quickly at $3,800. I emailed my AD to let me know if he gets one.
> View attachment 16681887


Wow, I missed that release entirely. What's the model number on that one?


----------



## Tanker G1

The SBGP001 and the new LE SBGP017 both have a blue seconds hand. Those two appear to be the only SBGP models without a center cap. Interestingly, the two LE models with red second hands do have a center cap. Not a deal breaker for such a good looking watch of course, just thought it was interesting.


----------



## Tanker G1

Spytap said:


> Wow, I missed that release entirely. What's the model number on that one?


SBGA435 was a 2020 LE release for the Chinese market. Only 181 qty so easy one to miss.

Same case as the Snowflake but in stainless instead of titanium.


----------



## Domo

Tanker G1 said:


> The SBGP001 and the new LE SBGP017 both have a blue seconds hand. Those two appear to be the only SBGP models without a center cap. Interestingly, the two LE models with red second hands do have a center cap. Not a deal breaker for such a good looking watch of course, just thought it was interesting.
> 
> View attachment 16682259
> 
> View attachment 16682271


44GS models rarely (if ever?) have a centre cap


----------



## ryanb741

Ordered one. Absolute no brainer for what you get. Wonder how quickly these will sell out - 2,000 isn't exactly super limited


----------



## Tanker G1

Domo said:


> 44GS models rarely (if ever?) have a centre cap


There are two 44GS models with center caps in the picture I posted - SBGP003 & SBGP005. There are several (all?) SD models with 44GS cases and center caps. I don't know for sure without looking but I'd bet there are more with than without in their current lineup.


----------



## staplebox

Put me down for a sbgp017 too - the dial got me. My second GS after the slga007 dial also called to me. (And of course, the overall design and finishing) Still available after 5pm EST but going quickly they said.


----------



## tfost

Available online at us boutique again


----------



## Kakemonster

The sbgp017 sure ticks alot of boxes, but I am not sure about the shade of blue personally. I am hoping it is a subtle light blue.


----------



## BarracksSi

Gebbeth said:


> They look like blued screws to me. There are some case back photos that make this clear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FS: Grand Seiko Quartz SBGV019 | WatchCharts
> 
> 
> FS: Grand Seiko Quartz SBGV019 Price: $2,499 This watch features a 38mm case and 100m of water resistance. The watch head is in 97% condition due to faint marks throughout the case. The bracelet is in 97% condition due to faint marks on the links.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchcharts.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either way, nice watch.


Those don’t look like heat-tempered blued screws to me, not with the uncolored slots. Heat-blueing should make the screw blue throughout, yes?

Edit: Nah, sorry, I’m mistaken — several how-to articles here: heat blued screws at DuckDuckGo


----------



## petay993

Ordered earlier and snagged the last one at the UK GS Boutique, phew.

Will make a great companion for my Shunbun!


----------



## bibbibart

Ordered one today, couldn’t resist it. Especially with a 25% price reduction compared to the official EU price.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

bibbibart said:


> Ordered one today, couldn’t resist it. Especially with a 25% price reduction compared to the official EU price.


Where? I'd like to get one also.


----------



## petay993




----------



## Chrono Brewer

petay993 said:


> Ordered earlier and snagged the last one at the UK GS Boutique, phew.
> 
> Will make a great companion for my Shunbun!





petay993 said:


> View attachment 16685090


These are supposedly shipping next month. Did they already have one on-hand at your UK boutique?


----------



## petay993

Chrono Brewer said:


> These are supposedly shipping next month. Did they already have one on-hand at your UK boutique?


It was a "not for sale" example.


----------



## bibbibart

petay993 said:


> It was a "not for sale" example.


Have you got more photos? The blued logo and seconds’ hand look more violet than blue, is it so?


----------



## petay993

bibbibart said:


> Have you got more photos? The blued logo and seconds’ hand look more violet than blue, is it so?


Hi, no sorry just these were sent to me by the London Boutique and I have not seen this watch first hand yet.


----------



## Madventure

You can't trust colors in a picture especially not with a cellphone. The software basically decides what the color "looks like".
Keen to see more pics though! This one is on my shortlist!


----------



## petay993

I was hoping for a deeper shade of blue as per the renders but will reserve judgement. As said, cellphone shots under harsh lighting are not definitive at all.

The clean dial and slim 44GS case really appeal though. No date would have been even better imho.


----------



## Kakemonster

petay993 said:


> I was hoping for a deeper shade of blue as per the renders but will reserve judgement. As said, cellphone shots under harsh lighting are not definitive at all.
> 
> The clean dial and slim 44GS case really appeal though. No date would have been even better imho.


Very hard to judge based on this picture alone. I was hoping for a more subtle light blue. There are some pictures on Instagram (tagged #sbgp017) which look gorgeous, but this picture gives me second thoughts. Not sure I like the blue on blue (blue dial and blue seconds hand).


----------



## petay993

Kakemonster said:


> Very hard to judge based on this picture alone. I was hoping for a more subtle light blue. There are some pictures on Instagram (tagged #sbgp017) which look gorgeous, but this picture gives me second thoughts. Not sure I like the blue on blue (blue dial and blue seconds hand).


I am happier with that instagram picture.


----------



## SuperDadHK

I asked a local AD and they are not taking order yet 😢


----------



## bibbibart

Should we expect some new watch announcement(s) from GS USA still today???


----------



## SKYWATCH007

petay993 said:


> View attachment 16685090


Hey is the whole side slab/lug area polished?


----------



## Tanker G1

If the SBGP017 dial is the same as my SBGA435, which I believe it to be, this render closely matches the average look IMO. It depends on the light and camera of course, but IDK if I would describe the blue as subtle. It's unmistakably blue and quite so in the right light. Cloud inspiration story aside, it's simply one of the best dials I've ever seen. My Snowflake is boring in comparison. I'd say it's unlikely one will be disappointed once they see it in person.


----------



## petay993

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Hey is the whole side slab/lug area polished?


I have not handled this piece yet but in common with other 44GS case treatment it should have a brushed element on the flanks.

The 44GS case is acknowledged as a bit of a scratch magnet though


----------



## petay993

Tanker G1 said:


> If the SBGP017 dial is the same as my SBGA435, which I believe it to be, this render closely matches the average look IMO. It depends on the light and camera of course, but IDK if I would describe the blue as subtle. It's unmistakably blue and quite so in the right light. Cloud inspiration story aside, it's simply one of the best dials I've ever seen. My Snowflake is boring in comparison. I'd say it's unlikely one will be disappointed once you see it in person.
> View attachment 16685854
> 
> View attachment 16685873
> 
> View attachment 16685875
> 
> View attachment 16685878


That looks superb, thanks for posting, hoping for that dial for sure!!


----------



## SKYWATCH007

Grand Seiko just dropped 4 USA editions. I just saw it on IG (grandseikousa). Haven't seen any articles yet.


----------



## RetroEffect

Buckle up US-based GS fans - some pretty amazing stuff just announced now and live on the boutique site. How about a new 500 piece limited Peacock model?


----------



## CarbonPrevails

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Grand Seiko just dropped 4 USA editions. I just saw it on IG (grandseikousa). Haven't seen any articles yet.


The SBGK015 is so damn nice. Wish I had the funds for it.


----------



## bearattack

RetroEffect said:


> Buckle up US-based GS fans - some pretty amazing stuff just announced now and live on the boutique site. How about a new 500 piece limited Peacock model?
> 
> View attachment 16685943


Holy that peacock is nice!


----------



## klackakon

Wonder if that blue peacock will trade at a premium in this market


----------



## bibbibart

Any idea on limitation numbers of the SBGK pieces? Both are stunning in a way.


----------



## bibbibart

Ok, only the peacock seems to be limited. Great release!

Correction - SBGK015 is also limited, to 250 pcs.


----------



## Tanker G1

4 stunning dials. Wow.


----------



## staplebox

The SBGK015 has my ordering finger twitching, the dial color and texture are awesome, but I just ordered the sbgp017. GS is releasing too many desirable watches at once.


----------



## CydeWeys

klackakon said:


> Wonder if that blue peacock will trade at a premium in this market


Yeah I dunno. It's too bad it's not green? The darker blue seems to be hiding the texture a bit.


----------



## petay993

Hey Grand Seiko!

What about the UK?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

petay993 said:


> It was a "not for sale" example.


Ah, I see the hand positions of a non-fuctioning dummy model. Thanks.


----------



## fasteddiev0.0

I just picked up the SBGW289... my wife will kill me. That SBGK015 is absolutely gorgeous. The different color PR/second hands are a bit eccentric, but they don't seem to be that prominent in the product shots.


----------



## fasteddiev0.0

bibbibart said:


> Any idea on limitation numbers of the SBGK pieces? Both are stunning in a way.


250 pieces for the SBGK015


----------



## bibbibart

fasteddiev0.0 said:


> I just picked up the SBGW289... my wife will kill me. That SBGK015 is absolutely gorgeous. The different color PR/second hands are a bit eccentric, but they don't seem to be that prominent in the product shots.


They’re not eccentric at all. This hands’ setup is simply fantastic. Here is my SBGK005.


----------



## bibbibart

More SBGK015 photos.


----------



## fasteddiev0.0

bibbibart said:


> They’re not eccentric at all. This hands’ setup is simply fantastic. Here is my SBGK005.


Sorry I just meant the color of the hands, not necessarily the placement. The PR hands/meter are gold and the seconds hand appears to be a blued hand.


----------



## bibbibart

fasteddiev0.0 said:


> Sorry I just meant the color of the hands, not necessarily the placement. The PR hands/meter are gold and the seconds hand appears to be a blued hand.


Blind me… [facepalm]. Indeed, blue and gold they are… Distinctive for sure.


----------



## Tpp3975

bibbibart said:


> More SBGK015 photos.


What a beauty. I’m just not wealthy enough to put 7500 on my credit card and give GS my money for 3 months. I’m sure they will be sold in a flash. Still available atm at the boutique.


----------



## Tanker G1

Tpp3975 said:


> Still available atm at the boutique.


Moments later...


----------



## Chrono Brewer

staplebox said:


> The SBGK015 has my ordering finger twitching, the dial color and texture are awesome, but I just ordered the sbgp017. GS is releasing too many desirable watches at once.


I might need to get my dealer to switch the deposit from SBGP017 to SBGK015 for me...

Scratch that. Only one hour post announcement and they're all claimed.


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> I might need to get my dealer to switch the deposit from SBGP017 to SBGK015 for me...
> 
> Scratch that. Only one hour post announcement and they're all claimed.


Yeah news travels fast. The 015 is just a stunner. The 017 is more my speed. But damn that is a spectacular watch.


----------



## Tanker G1

$1,875,000 for 250 watches sold within an hour.


----------



## Tpp3975

Tanker G1 said:


> $1,875,000 for 250 watches sold within an hour.


On the precipice of a global recession.


----------



## bibbibart

GS did with SBGK017 an unwilling trick. At least for 10 persons who bought their ultra limited Place Vendome release - SBGK011. A 40.000$ watch. It is the same dial pattern but in black.


----------



## Tanker G1

bibbibart said:


> GS did with SBGK017 an unwilling trick. At least for 10 persons who bought their ultra limited Place Vendome release - SBGK011. A 40.000$ watch. It is the same dial pattern but in black.


I understand your point but the 011 is Platinum cased.


----------



## bibbibart

Tanker G1 said:


> I understand your point but the 011 is Platinum cased.


No doubt. But with a 40.000$ SBGK with a dial never applied earlier by GS (which was marketed as reminding cobblestones of Place Vendome), I would hope GS would never use it again (or at least not in a SS version). Now we read it resembles some armor… 

Not my problem, just noting this fact as a sort of potential letdown for some.


----------



## CydeWeys

bibbibart said:


> No doubt. But with a 40.000$ SBGK with a dial never applied earlier by GS (which was marketed as reminding cobblestones of Place Vendome), I would hope GS would never use it again (or at least not in a SS version). Now we read it resembles some armor…
> 
> Not my problem, just noting this fact as a sort of potential letdown for some.


Who knows, this might increase the value of the previous watch. After all the most valuable watches aren't one-offs, they're ones with established legacies. It's not like the new steel ones with a different dial color are exact replacements for the platinum one.


----------



## bibbibart

CydeWeys said:


> Who knows, this might increase the value of the previous watch. After all the most valuable watches aren't one-offs, they're ones with established legacies. It's not like the new steel ones with a different dial color are exact replacements for the platinum one.


You’re probably right. Just to end my point - I meant exclusivity of the piece, not its (resale) value. 

Anyway - congrats to those of our US colleagues who were able to secure the SBGK015.


----------



## quakeroatmeal

Got my peacock ordered!


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Tanker G1 said:


> $1,875,000 for 250 watches sold within an hour.


Taking a swag at the profit margin as 50%, that's good business.


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> Taking a swag at the profit margin as 50%, that's good business.


Don’t forget the 2000 9Fs that sold out 3 days ago at 3800 each.


----------



## tfost

GS = pure mastery. These four watches are astonishingly beautiful. That green SBGJ259 is really something. All of them are really something, actually. No one else is playing at this level, IMO.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Just noticed: one of my favorite older dials (and a rare red dial) from the Autumn SBGH269 has now been repurposed for this new SBGJ259. I'd been hoping to see it again. That fine wood grain swirl will be beautiful in green.


----------



## SL1210

quakeroatmeal said:


> Got my peacock ordered!


I guess you must be one happy peahen!


----------



## Kakemonster

Quite a fan of the sbgk017!


----------



## Domo

bibbibart said:


> Ok, only the peacock seems to be limited. Great release!
> 
> Correction - SBGK015 is also limited, to 250 pcs.


I like them all


----------



## John Price

Domo said:


> I like them all


Ditto!


----------



## Gzm

Really encouraged by these recent releases. These sorts of dials are why GS continues to excite me.


----------



## bibbibart

Gzm said:


> Really encouraged by these recent releases. These sorts of dials are why GS continues to excite me.


Exactly so. I was put off by Lakae Suwa and Omiwatari dials and especially by Evo 9 case style. 

Here we get the old good GS dials and cases. And this SBGK005 dial is simply crazy


----------



## Xhantos

bibbibart said:


> Exactly so. I was put off by Lakae Suwa and Omiwatari dials and especially by Evo 9 case style.


I love those too, especially Lake Suwa.










Image from Hands-On Review Grand Seiko Spring Drive SLGA007 Lake Suwa (Price)


----------



## CydeWeys

Xhantos said:


> I love those too, especially Lake Suwa.
> 
> View attachment 16688768
> 
> 
> Image from Hands-On Review Grand Seiko Spring Drive SLGA007 Lake Suwa (Price)


I haven't seen it in person so I don't really know, but the Lake Suwa tends to look a little too dark in a lot of candids (vs this studio shot). I'm thinking I wish it were a little lighter-colored.


----------



## bibbibart

Explanation: Lake Suwa & Omiwatari are great dials. Just not in the traditional GS way. 

IMHO 2 best GS dials are SBGY003 and SBGK005. And now SBGK015 may take the throne. But it’s just my feeling.


----------



## staplebox

CydeWeys said:


> I haven't seen it in person so I don't really know, but the Lake Suwa tends to look a little too dark in a lot of candids (vs this studio shot). I'm thinking I wish it were a little lighter-colored.


I have the 007 and it is a dark blue dial until light hits it at just the right angle. I love everything about it. I really like the color of the 015, but the watch is just a little too small and dressy for my tastes. I also have an SBGP017 incoming.


----------



## ArcticCoastie

quakeroatmeal said:


> Got my peacock ordered!


Congrats! Was considering that myself but decided to pounce on the new quartz instead.


----------



## gelatomancer

staplebox said:


> I have the 007 and it is a dark blue dial until light hits it at just the right angle. I love everything about it. I really like the color of the 015, but the watch is just a little too small and dressy for my tastes. I also have an SBGP017 incoming.
> 
> View attachment 16688950
> View attachment 16688951


That's a very similar effect to my SBGP007. I like it because it gives the same understated effect of a black dial watch to observers but a nice bit of excitement to me.


----------



## bibbibart

gelatomancer said:


> That's a very similar effect to my SBGP007. I like it because it gives the same understated effect of a black dial watch to observers but a nice bit of excitement to me.
> 
> View attachment 16693567
> 
> 
> View attachment 16693568


And an additional bonus for those who can find „GS2020” hidden on the dial…


----------



## Chrono Brewer

bibbibart said:


> And an additional bonus for those who can find „GS2020” hidden on the dial…


I was scratching my head about that dial pattern a few months ago and got enlightened.









please help me interpret the dial of SBGP007


The SBGP007 dial puzzles me. The render looked like solid blue, but I was interested to find live photos show this geometric pattern. Dealer descriptions say things like "a unique marking with a 2020 pattern" or, a little hyperbolic, "The display of the Grand Seiko SBGP007 is exquisite. The blue...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## bibbibart

Chrono Brewer said:


> I was scratching my head about that dial pattern a few months ago and got enlightened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> please help me interpret the dial of SBGP007
> 
> 
> The SBGP007 dial puzzles me. The render looked like solid blue, but I was interested to find live photos show this geometric pattern. Dealer descriptions say things like "a unique marking with a 2020 pattern" or, a little hyperbolic, "The display of the Grand Seiko SBGP007 is exquisite. The blue...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com


Yep, I remember that string of posts. Once you see this pattern you cannot unsee it. Nice work by GS.


----------



## ArcticCoastie

bibbibart said:


> Yep, I remember that string of posts. Once you see this pattern you cannot unsee it. Nice work by GS.


agreed!


----------



## CydeWeys

bibbibart said:


> Exactly so. I was put off by Lakae Suwa and Omiwatari dials and especially by Evo 9 case style.
> 
> Here we get the old good GS dials and cases. And this SBGK005 dial is simply crazy


The more I think on it, the more I'm convinced that this will be the stand-out US-available release of the year (like SBGH267, SBGY003, SBGJ227, and SBGM235 from previous years). Is any other release from this year so far likely to be remotely as hot? The low quantity limit of 250 + US exclusivity + whirlpool-esque dial + dial color + that case design all seem to align.


----------



## One-Seventy

bibbibart said:


> Yep, I remember that string of posts. Once you see this pattern you cannot unsee it. Nice work by GS.


Dial schmial. Rolex put crown guards on the Air-King and apparently the entire internet stopped!


----------



## Spytap

One-Seventy said:


> Dial schmial. Rolex put crown guards on the Air-King and apparently the entire internet stopped!


If my internet is any indication, it’s because all the Rolex kids _hated_ it. Change is scary, folks.


----------



## Gebbeth

Spytap said:


> If my internet is any indication, it’s because all the Rolex kids _hated_ it. Change is scary, folks.


You need a RUTD, a Rolex Universal Translation Device. "Air King" means "affordable luxury", and "crown guards" means "revolutionary design language". "New Air King with crown guards" however means "the fifth level of hell."


----------



## FREG

i was interested in the SBGJ259 but then i saw the thickness and ran, that made the SBGP017 interesting there they fixed the thickness , the thickness on a spring drive gmt is a problem imo. One of the things Rolex does right, the thickness on a GMT master II is 12 mm remember it is a fully mechanical watch


----------



## Chrono Brewer

FREG said:


> i was interested in the SBGJ259 but then i saw the thickness and ran, that made the SBGP017 interesting there they fixed the thickness , the thickness on a spring drive gmt is a problem imo. One of the things Rolex does right, the thickness on a GMT master II is 12 mm remember it is a fully mechanical watch


I've yet to find a GMT I want from any brand, thickness usually being the top eliminator.


----------



## gelatomancer

FREG said:


> i was interested in the SBGJ259 but then i saw the thickness and ran, that made the SBGP017 interesting there they fixed the thickness , the thickness on a spring drive gmt is a problem imo. One of the things Rolex does right, the thickness on a GMT master II is 12 mm remember it is a fully mechanical watch


I got to handle a Daytona my local watch shop got in and it is so thin for a chronograph. Say what you will about them as a company, but their movement design is on point.


----------



## One-Seventy

Chrono Brewer said:


> I've yet to find a GMT I want from any brand, thickness usually being the top eliminator.


It's usually - though not totally - unnecessary. The new "forum-darling" Longines Spirit GMT is around 14mm thick, yet its movement is only about 4mm of that. Rolex manages to package its 6.5mm thick GMT movement into something much slimmer. One of its tricks is to stack the hands such that the 24h hand is above the 12h hand. With low-profile lume plots - lower than others - this results in a shallower rehaut than in most other makes.

However, others do manage it perfectly well. Oris's Worldtimer is 11.9mm; the upcoming Horage GMT is 9.8mm thin, and Zenith's Captain Dual Time was 9.9mm, and that has sunk without trace. So thinness is not unique to Rolex, and perhaps, really not _that_ important.


----------



## petay993

I am going to a Grand Seiko event on Thursday night (UK) and have been told that the SBGP017 will be available to view. I will try and capture some decent images.


----------



## kashb

petay993 said:


> I am going to a Grand Seiko event on Thursday night (UK) and have been told that the SBGP017 will be available to view. I will try and capture some decent images.


Would be great, is the event at the London boutique?


----------



## CydeWeys

gelatomancer said:


> I got to handle a Daytona my local watch shop got in and it is so thin for a chronograph. Say what you will about them as a company, but their movement design is on point.


Welcome to the U curve of watch appreciation for Rolex. People who don't know anything about watches like them, people who know a bit about watches think they're overhyped, then once you know a lot about watches you realize how technically accomplished they are and wrap back around to appreciating them again.




One-Seventy said:


> It's usually - though not totally - unnecessary. The new "forum-darling" Longines Spirit GMT is around 14mm thick, yet its movement is only about 4mm of that. Rolex manages to package its 6.5mm thick GMT movement into something much slimmer.


That's a crying shame. Why don't they try harder to make it slimmer? Like the GMT, they're also only targeting 100m WR, and they even use a screw-in caseback, so they should totally be able to make it slimmer. Yet they design a big 42x14mm watch. Maybe they figure that's what people want, a big watch?


----------



## petay993

kashb said:


> Would be great, is the event at the London boutique?


It's in Manchester, going at the invitation of Goldsmiths.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

black bay pro - WatchRecon


Browse and search for watches efficiently with WatchRecon




www.watchrecon.com





Speaking of rolex...if anyone's wondering where the all the BB pros are at.. 😂


----------



## gelatomancer

CydeWeys said:


> Welcome to the U curve of watch appreciation for Rolex. People who don't know anything about watches like them, people who know a bit about watches think they're overhyped, then once you know a lot about watches you realize how technically accomplished they are and wrap back around to appreciating them again.


Oh, I still think they're overhyped, with stagnant designs, poor QC for the price point, and too many games around buying them. 😆


----------



## Xhantos

CydeWeys said:


> Welcome to the U curve of watch appreciation for Rolex. People who don't know anything about watches like them, people who know a bit about watches think they're overhyped, then once you know a lot about watches you realize how technically accomplished they are and wrap back around to appreciating them again.


Rolex is a fine brand, one I would even compare to Seiko - this is very high praise coming from me. Worst of Rolex is their customer base.



CydeWeys said:


> That's a crying shame. Why don't they try harder to make it slimmer? Like the GMT, they're also only targeting 100m WR, and they even use a screw-in caseback, so they should totally be able to make it slimmer. Yet they design a big 42x14mm watch. Maybe they figure that's what people want, a big watch?


I forgot where I read it, it said 'watch making is all about compromises'. I can give an example in a field easier to understand, they can make slimmer phones but then there is less space for a battery. You can have a thick phone with a bigger battery. Which one do you value more? Depends


----------



## Liscon

One-Seventy said:


> It's usually - though not totally - unnecessary. The new "forum-darling" Longines Spirit GMT is around 14mm thick, yet its movement is only about 4mm of that. Rolex manages to package its 6.5mm thick GMT movement into something much slimmer. One of its tricks is to stack the hands such that the 24h hand is above the 12h hand. With low-profile lume plots - lower than others - this results in a shallower rehaut than in most other makes.
> 
> However, others do manage it perfectly well. Oris's Worldtimer is 11.9mm; the upcoming Horage GMT is 9.8mm thin, and Zenith's Captain Dual Time was 9.9mm, and that has sunk without trace. So thinness is not unique to Rolex, and perhaps, really not _that_ important.


I think the Horage Supersede is down to it being a micro-rotor so the overall thickness of the movement is reduced. This can then allow for a taller handstack without compromising on the overall thickness of the watch.


----------



## One-Seventy

Liscon said:


> I think the Horage Supersede is down to it being a micro-rotor so the overall thickness of the movement is reduced. This can then allow for a taller handstack without compromising on the overall thickness of the watch.


It's a 3.6mm movement, per the Horage website, including the GMT complication, and a fine looking movement it is (although it's been a long time coming...). They get that into 9.8mm thick watch, which is also commendable - 6.2mm of caseback, clearance, dial, rehaut and crystal/bezel, all with 200m rating. Rolex does something very similar, although the GMT II only gets a 100m rating.

For comparison, Longines gets a 4.1mm movement into 13.9mm of watch.


----------



## BarracksSi

gelatomancer said:


> I got to handle a Daytona my local watch shop got in and it is so thin for a chronograph. Say what you will about them as a company, but their movement design is on point.


Same for me. After trying on maybe a dozen different 7750-derived chronos, TAG 01s, etc., and thinking, "eh, mechanical chronographs are all so clunky", I asked to see the Daytona at a local shop. After ten seconds on-wrist, it jumped to the top three of my chrono wish list, it was so nice-feeling.


----------



## kashb

petay993 said:


> It's in Manchester, going at the invitation of Goldsmiths.


Cool, looking forward to your report back. Really nice to hear goldsmiths are doing a GS event!


----------



## ArcticCoastie

BarracksSi said:


> Same for me. After trying on maybe a dozen different 7750-derived chronos, TAG 01s, etc., and thinking, "eh, mechanical chronographs are all so clunky", I asked to see the Daytona at a local shop. After ten seconds on-wrist, it jumped to the top three of my chrono wish list, it was so nice-feeling.


Same with me, honestly. I was surprised at how well it fit my wrist, and this is coming from someone who despises Rolex games!


----------



## Gebbeth

In a strange way, I actually prefer a slightly chunkier chrono. Even though the function is not all that useful, and is not used all that much anymore from a practical standpoint, the ability to manipulate the pushers is just slightly easier when there is a little bit more height on the watch and the pushers are slightly higher off the wrist.

That being said, Rolex Daytona's are iconic, including its thinness, so it is what it is.


----------



## One-Seventy

BarracksSi said:


> Same for me. After trying on maybe a dozen different 7750-derived chronos, TAG 01s, etc., and thinking, "eh, mechanical chronographs are all so clunky", I asked to see the Daytona at a local shop. After ten seconds on-wrist, it jumped to the top three of my chrono wish list, it was so nice-feeling.


The Rolex 4130 is 6.5mm thick. The Zenith El P on which the preceding Rolex 4030 was based, is 6.6mm and Rolex's worked-over version was even less than that, as it had no calendar function. Both commendably thin, but not the thinnest.

The overall thinness of the Daytona overall is due to tight tolerances and a low, flat crystal without a protruding bezel. Some of it engineering, some of it simply styling choice.


----------



## ryanb741

If you like the aesthetics of the Daytona try the new Zenith Chronomaster Original. Very high quality with a superior movement to the Daytona, 12.6mm vs the Daytona's 12.2mm however a lot of the Zenith's thickness is in the box crystal. Fantastic watch


----------



## bibbibart

Getting this thread on the right tracks - on the below photo (taken from IG) SBGP017 looks more grayish than anything else. I personally like it, though IRL it’s most probbably strongly blueish. 

Either way it looks veeery crisp.


----------



## SuperDadHK

bibbibart said:


> Getting this thread on the right tracks - on the below photo (taken from IG) SBGP017 looks more grayish than anything else. I personally like it, though IRL it’s most probbably strongly blueish.
> 
> Either way it looks veeery crisp.


I wanted to say shut up and take my money but the local distributor has not announced anything yet, not even a single fb/ig post.
AD is not taking my money literally.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

bibbibart said:


> Getting this thread on the right tracks - on the below photo (taken from IG) SBGP017 looks more grayish than anything else. I personally like it, though IRL it’s most probbably strongly blueish.
> 
> Either way it looks veeery crisp.


A couple more on Instagram show the blue cast. Looks like the Lion's Mane dial is doing the same subtle color shifts with lighting as SBGA413, but this time between blue and gray rather than pink and silver.


----------



## CydeWeys

bibbibart said:


> Getting this thread on the right tracks - on the below photo (taken from IG) SBGP017 looks more grayish than anything else. I personally like it, though IRL it’s most probbably strongly blueish.
> 
> Either way it looks veeery crisp.


I wonder why they don't go for bolder colors on these? That recent Ginza LE was a bold color. SBGW289 isn't as pink as I'd ideally like it, and now this one isn't gonna be as blue as I'd ideally like it either. It's amazing how deceptive those product photos are.


----------



## staplebox

bibbibart said:


> Getting this thread on the right tracks - on the below photo (taken from IG) SBGP017 looks more grayish than anything else. I personally like it, though IRL it’s most probbably strongly blueish.
> 
> Either way it looks veeery crisp.


I am a fan of color shifting dials - sunburst, fume and whatever it is that GS does to get such a wide range of color. It's just more visually appealing to me than a matte or glossy solid color dial.

But oh man I am going to scratch the hell out of those polished lugs and bezel. It has more polish than I was expecting.


----------



## CydeWeys

staplebox said:


> I am a fan of color shifting dials - sunburst, fume and whatever it is that GS does to get such a wide range of color. It's just more visually appealing to me than a matte or glossy solid color dial.
> 
> But oh man I am going to scratch the hell out of those polished lugs and bezel. It has more polish than I was expecting.


It's a 44GS case though; what else could you have been expecting?


----------



## Gebbeth

I love GS and have one myself. However, I see a lot of GSs coming up on watch sites up for sale. They are 1st in terms of volume with Omega coming up a close 2nd. Why so many?

Not all are the new models. Most are older models, but they still comfortably out number other watchmaker's watches.

Are GS's innovative dials actually leading to short lifespans on the attention span index? Are people rapidly swapping out GSs because they want that "new dial"?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Gebbeth said:


> I love GS and have one myself. However, I see a lot of GSs coming up on watch sites up for sale. They are 1st in terms of volume with Omega coming up a close 2nd. Why so many?
> 
> Not all are the new models. Most are older models, but they still comfortably out number other watchmaker's watches.
> 
> Are GS's innovative dials actually leading to short lifespans on the attention span index? Are people rapidly swapping out GSs because they want that "new dial"?


GS only expanded beyond the Japanese market in 2010. You may be seeing more secondhand pieces just as the natural course of growing circulation with every passing year.


----------



## CydeWeys

Gebbeth said:


> I love GS and have one myself. However, I see a lot of GSs coming up on watch sites up for sale. They are 1st in terms of volume with Omega coming up a close 2nd. Why so many?
> 
> Not all are the new models. Most are older models, but they still comfortably out number other watchmaker's watches.
> 
> Are GS's innovative dials actually leading to short lifespans on the attention span index? Are people rapidly swapping out GSs because they want that "new dial"?


I don't remotely think this is true. In addition to Omega, there are FOR SURE more Rolexes being sold secondhand than GS, and certainly many other brands too (e.g. normal Seiko, Swatch). GS simply does not produce at the same volume as the largest brands. Your methodology must be flawed.


----------



## Madventure

But he's onto something that part of the appeal of GS is the dial. I know for me it is. And every year I see something I like. The White Birch. The Pink One. Now this Blue one. It's a good thing I'm holding on to my watches, but I can see how people move on faster than with brands of more classical design.


----------



## Gebbeth

CydeWeys said:


> I don't remotely think this is true. In addition to Omega, there are FOR SURE more Rolexes being sold secondhand than GS, and certainly many other brands too (e.g. normal Seiko, Swatch). GS simply does not produce at the same volume as the largest brands. Your methodology must be flawed.


Nothing scientific mind you, and you're right, I don't think GS beats Rolex. But, I just have a couple of Watchrecon searches saved, one for "Omega" and the other for "Grand Seiko", and the GS always comes up on top, day in and day out. Watchrecon probably excludes established resellers like Bob's Watches and so their search algorithms might be the cause. But then this would apply to all other watch brands on Watchrecon because the same search algorithms would apply to all of them in the same way. This is truly what I am seeing in real time.


----------



## Tanker G1

Gebbeth said:


> Nothing scientific mind you, and you're right, I don't think GS beats Rolex. But, I just have a couple of Watchrecon searches saved, one for "Omega" and the other for "Grand Seiko", and the GS always comes up on top, day in and day out. Watchrecon probably excludes established resellers like Bob's Watches and so their search algorithms might be the cause. But then this would apply to all other watch brands on Watchrecon because the same search algorithms would apply to all of them in the same way. This is truly what I am seeing in real time.


I just did a search for both terms on WR using the default 14 day posting timeframe.

Omega: 16 pages
Grand Seiko: 5 pages

Rolex is 32 pages

If you go to 31 day results:

Omega: 25 pages
Grand Seiko: 8 pages


----------



## CydeWeys

Tanker G1 said:


> I just did a search for both terms on WR using the default 14 day posting timeframe.
> 
> Omega: 16 pages
> Grand Seiko: 5 pages
> 
> Rolex is 32 pages


And also, I suspect that Rolexes are much more likely to trade hands through non-forum means. There are huge established resellers, both online and physical, that resell Rolex by the truckload but that do not touch GS. I can go to the jewelry district in my city and see entire street-facing display cases full of used Rolexes for sale, but I never see a single GS. So the ratio there of physical reselling is way higher than 32:5 Rolex:GS.


----------



## Gebbeth

CydeWeys said:


> And also, I suspect that Rolexes are much more likely to trade hands through non-forum means. There are huge established resellers, both online and physical, that resell Rolex by the truckload but that do not touch GS. I can go to the jewelry district in my city and see entire street-facing display cases full of used Rolexes for sale, but I never see a single GS. So the ratio there of physical reselling is way higher than 32:5 Rolex:GS.


True, I admit. I must be doing something wrong on my search parameters between GS and Omega.


----------



## bibbibart

Gebbeth said:


> True, I admit. I must be doing something wrong on my search parameters between GS and Omega.


Gentlemen, I admire the civilized level of discussion in our thread. Whatever the GS reselling volumes are, we, GS owners, maintain certain standards. 

And I agree - what sold me to GS were and still are their fabulous dials. They’re like small bijous.


----------



## Gebbeth

FYI, I think this is a great article about how GS manufactures the White Birch dial.

Recommended Read - Making The Dial of The GS White Birch SLGH005


----------



## staplebox

Interesting discussion - 

On Chrono24

GS - 3,584
Omega - 36,653
Rolex - 88,282
Patek - 10,929
Breitling - 16,235
Audemars - 10,891
Tudor - 7,548
Cartier - 16,679
Tag - 12,642
JLC - 6,218
IWC - 9,248


----------



## petay993

I went to the Grand Seiko event in Manchester, UK this evening and the Sea of Clouds 9F release was available to view and try on. Demo piece.

I took a few pics in the entrance to the event to try and capture the dial shade but I was not able to take the watch outside to capture it in daylight.

Apologies for the artefacts on the pics but the lighting was far from ideal and I was not actually supposed to remove the watch from the display area!

Last pic I think represents what you will get.


----------



## Tanker G1

Looks fantastic. So happy I was able to snag one.


----------



## petay993

Tanker G1 said:


> Looks fantastic. So happy I was able to snag one.


You won't be disappointed, it wore beautifully!


----------



## gelatomancer

petay993 said:


> I went to the Grand Seiko event in Manchester, UK this evening and the Sea of Clouds 9F release was available to view and try on. Demo piece.
> 
> I took a few pics in the entrance to the event to try and capture the dial shade but I was not able to take the watch outside to capture it in daylight.
> 
> Apologies for the artefacts on the pics but the lighting was far from ideal and I was not actually supposed to remove the watch from the display area!
> 
> Last pic I think represents what you will get.
> 
> View attachment 16702205
> 
> View attachment 16702206
> 
> View attachment 16702207


That looks sweet, so much ziratsu for me to scratch up 😆

Did they mention anything about when they'll start sending them to stores?


----------



## Madventure

And lets not forget display case back!


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

petay993 said:


> I went to the Grand Seiko event in Manchester, UK this evening and the Sea of Clouds 9F release was available to view and try on. Demo piece.
> 
> I took a few pics in the entrance to the event to try and capture the dial shade but I was not able to take the watch outside to capture it in daylight.
> 
> Apologies for the artefacts on the pics but the lighting was far from ideal and I was not actually supposed to remove the watch from the display area!
> 
> Last pic I think represents what you will get.
> 
> View attachment 16702205
> 
> View attachment 16702206
> 
> View attachment 16702207



Thanks for these, can't wait for mine. 

I couldn't get one in Thailand (all 20 were gone and gobbled up by the GS Thailand "VIPs" before my GS guy could even get hold of one for me) but I got one pre-ordered via Chrono24 from Japan, fingers crossed. Japan got 800 out of the 2000.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

gelatomancer said:


> That looks sweet, so much ziratsu for me to scratch up 😆
> 
> Did they mention anything about when they'll start sending them to stores?


Hachimura Watch in Japan where I reserved mine told me the release date is July 8th.


----------



## kashb

I heard from the London boutique that they will get them before end of the month but there is a sale embargo until 1st July, so assume that’s when the actual launch is.



gelatomancer said:


> That looks sweet, so much ziratsu for me to scratch up 😆
> 
> Did they mention anything about when they'll start sending them to stores?


----------



## bibbibart

petay993 said:


> You won't be disappointed, it wore beautifully!


IMHO, let me stress it - just IMHO, GS returned on the right path. After approx. 1 year of experimenting with Evolution 9 models (I understand many will appreciate them, I’m just a traditionalist in this respect) GS returns to its great form. Just to name a couple of recent releases:

SBGP017
SBGK015
SBGH297.

For me they represent a sort of milestones in modern GS history (in their respective categories). They receive huge interest - both SBGK and SBGH (in 250 and 260 volumes respectively) were snagged up within hours (should I rather say minutes?). SBGH already now reaching the asking price exceeding $20k (I mention it just to show how well this model has been received by the market). 

My final point is that GS still holds strong, with its releases going vastly to brand lovers. As someone mentioned earlier - GS is all about fantastic dials. Cases as the second factor. I’m sure we will get many headaches along the way with more and more choices to make after furure GS releases. And what I personally like most about GS are their LIMITED EDITIONS (controversial, I know). It makes me run from one release to another, wait and dream about them. Getting something unique in today’s globalized economy. Everyone can have a Coke or Levi’s but not everyone the entire trio mentioned by me.


----------



## jmariorebelo

Went to a couple of ADs today to gets a hands on with the SBGY007. 

We talked about the sea of clouds. The entire of the UK got just 10 (!) of them. 

Plus one AD got ONE 36mm 44gs pink dial that they sold days before it even arrived, while the other got nothing at all. 

Aren't limited editions just fantastic?


----------



## bibbibart

If the entire UK received only 1 out of 1.200 SBGW289s then this might be more a problem of relative strength of UK ADs and less so of the concept of a limited edition. 

But then I admit of course that LEs require active seeking of info on such releases and quick action. Still, they don’t require purchase history like with other brands.

My grail GS is SBGY003. I wasn’t into watches when it was introduced in 2018. So I missed the opportunity to acquire one. I will not buy one second hand (buy only at or below MSRP). But it only strengthens my beliefs around LEs. Accepting others’ opposite opinions let me stress - different strokes for different folks.


----------



## jmariorebelo

I might have led you to the wrong conclusion there. The UK certainly got more than one sbgw289, but between both AD I visited today they only got one.


----------



## gelatomancer

bibbibart said:


> If the entire UK received only 1 out of 1.200 SBGW289s then this might be more a problem of relative strength of UK ADs and less so of the concept of a limited edition.


I wonder how many of the 2,000 were sold online, too. It could be less than 1,000 were available to all non-Japan ADs.


----------



## kashb

jmariorebelo said:


> Went to a couple of ADs today to gets a hands on with the SBGY007.
> 
> We talked about the sea of clouds. The entire of the UK got just 10 (!) of them.
> 
> Plus one AD got ONE 36mm 44gs pink dial that they sold days before it even arrived, while the other got nothing at all.
> 
> Aren't limited editions just fantastic?


Not sure that’s fully correct, the London boutique got 14 sea of clouds, so maybe it was 10 to other ADs?


----------



## jmariorebelo

kashb said:


> Not sure that’s fully correct, the London boutique got 14 sea of clouds, so maybe it was 10 to other ADs?


Ah, them may have meant 10 for their locations in the UK. It did feel an awfully low number I must say.


----------



## kashb

jmariorebelo said:


> Ah, them may have meant 10 for their locations in the UK. It did feel an awfully low number I must say.


If it was a large chain, then 10 for the whole chain is probably correct. Still, when there is demand like this it’s not a lot though. The waitlist at the boutique is 40 people deep, that’s after they sold out.


----------



## bibbibart

kashb said:


> If it was a large chain, then 10 for the whole chain is probably correct. Still, when there is demand like this it’s not a lot though. The waitlist at the boutique is 40 people deep, that’s after they sold out.


Had no idea that the interest in this LE is so high. Really impressive. Happy to learn there are so many GS enthusiasts.


----------



## ArcticCoastie

bibbibart said:


> Had no idea that the interest in this LE is so high. Really impressive. Happy to learn there are so many GS enthusiasts.


Wow...wonder what the #s are like for the U.S. boutiques and ADs?


----------



## gelatomancer

bibbibart said:


> Had no idea that the interest in this LE is so high. Really impressive. Happy to learn there are so many GS enthusiasts.


The watch blogs made a big noise when it was released so I think there's a FOMO around it, which also drives the flippers.

Luckily, I saw the leak and asked my local AD about it before the hype.


----------



## vlpix

I tried this before coming up on sale and i was not so impressed then. Still available at Seiko Boutique online in Japan at a decent price










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CydeWeys

jmariorebelo said:


> I might have led you to the wrong conclusion there. The UK certainly got more than one sbgw289, but between both AD I visited today they only got one.


Interestingly, they're not going for much of a premium on the aftermarket at all, so maybe the production numbers were just about bang on?


----------



## vlpix

CydeWeys said:


> Interestingly, they're not going for much of a premium on the aftermarket at all, so maybe the production numbers were just about bang on?


There is another model, Ltd edition to 200 pcs Ginza Edition Automatic which is sold out and is going for resell at 5x the standard price (similar to the Rolex Oyster Tiffany Blue)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kashb

CydeWeys said:


> Interestingly, they're not going for much of a premium on the aftermarket at all, so maybe the production numbers were just about bang on?


might take some time, these are still hitting ads. Even then, to be at rrp or slightly more is still great, most GS tank.


----------



## kashb

vlpix said:


> I tried this before coming up on sale and i was not so impressed then. Still available at Seiko Boutique online in Japan at a decent price
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Each to their own, think that’s spot on.


----------



## bibbibart

vlpix said:


> There is another model, Ltd edition to 200 pcs Ginza Edition Automatic which is sold out and is going for resell at 5x the standard price (similar to the Rolex Oyster Tiffany Blue)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep, that’s the one I mentioned in post #1556 above. One out of 3 got sold yesterday on CH24 @ the asking price of almost $20.000 (MSRP = $ 5.500). Crazy, but nice to hear on the other hand when prices of other brands crash (unfortunately with the risk of more flippers flipping to GS…).


----------



## bibbibart

Wondering what the annual Isetan Shinjuku LE model wil be this year. Will it be another SBGN model limited to 56 pcs? It’s right about time to reveal it. Previous 2 models below (as a refresher).

Hoping it will not be another 2022 version of blue… 🥱

SBGN017









SBGN025


----------



## staplebox

vlpix said:


> I tried this before coming up on sale and i was not so impressed then. Still available at Seiko Boutique online in Japan at a decent price


What is unimpressive about it? Looks like there are 800 reserved for Japan according to the Boutique there.


----------



## CydeWeys

vlpix said:


> There is another model, Ltd edition to 200 pcs Ginza Edition Automatic which is sold out and is going for resell at 5x the standard price (similar to the Rolex Oyster Tiffany Blue)


I really don't like this one though. One of my least favorite GS models. I don't get the hype.


----------



## vlpix

I finally placed my order for SBGP017 and with that sold out at Ginza Boutique. Due to weak Yen i paid almost ~ 3k€. Finally getting my first ever Seiko watch 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

vlpix said:


> I finally placed my order for SBGP017 and with that sold out at Ginza Boutique. Due to weak Yen i paid almost ~ 3k€. Finally getting my first ever Seiko watch
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Congrats! Are you claiming that you reserved the last SBGP017 available at one of the 5 Ginza boutiques? Great achievement


----------



## Tanker G1

vlpix said:


> I finally placed my order for SBGP017


I'm confused. You posted you weren't impressed with it?


----------



## vlpix

Tanker G1 said:


> I'm confused. You posted you weren't impressed with it?


I love the dial however not so much the thickness of the watch. A bit to thin for my taste for a sporty model - even tough i have a small wrist, the only thin watch which i wear is my Cartier Santos Dumont LM. I would have wanted something like 11-12 thickness…

I went today to Ginza and Wako to have a 2nd look and decide, and then ordered it online. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CydeWeys

vlpix said:


> I finally placed my order for SBGP017 and with that sold out at Ginza Boutique. Due to weak Yen i paid almost ~ 3k€. Finally getting my first ever Seiko watch


Amazing that it was available for so long whereas in the US it was selling out at all the boutiques same day. Maybe Japan is getting relatively too much of the supply?

And I take it you live in Japan but have a bank account full of EUR where you're from that you used to buy this? What was the JPY price? I bet I definitely could've done better than US$3,800+tax in Japan too.


----------



## bibbibart

CydeWeys said:


> Amazing that it was available for so long whereas in the US it was selling out at all the boutiques same day. Maybe Japan is getting relatively too much of the supply?
> 
> And I take it you live in Japan but have a bank account full of EUR where you're from that you used to buy this? What was the JPY price? I bet I definitely could've done better than US$3,800+tax in Japan too.


800 out of 2.000 is destined for Japan. IMHO at current there may be a lot more of move towards GS in the US than in Japan.


----------



## gelatomancer

vlpix said:


> I love the dial however not so much the thickness of the watch. A bit to thin for my taste for a sporty model


Is it sporty? Sure it has 100m WR, but I dunno if a watch with all the polish and no lume can really be called sporty.


----------



## CydeWeys

gelatomancer said:


> Is it sporty? Sure it has 100m WR, but I dunno if a watch with all the polish and no lume can really be called sporty.


Agreed, definitely not sporty. It's a 44GS with no lume, a fancy textured dial, and a push-pull crown. The only even remotely sporty thing about it is 100m WR, but it shares that in common with the likes of the Datejust, Sky-Dweller, etc.


----------



## vlpix

CydeWeys said:


> Amazing that it was available for so long whereas in the US it was selling out at all the boutiques same day. Maybe Japan is getting relatively too much of the supply?
> 
> And I take it you live in Japan but have a bank account full of EUR where you're from that you used to buy this? What was the JPY price? I bet I definitely could've done better than US$3,800+tax in Japan too.


Yes 800 reserved for Japan and available at Seiko / dept stores and some other resellers. The JPY price was 440k


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CydeWeys

vlpix said:


> Yes 800 reserved for Japan and available at Seiko / dept stores and some other resellers. The JPY price was 440k
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Was that the full price you paid including tax?


----------



## vlpix

CydeWeys said:


> Was that the full price you paid including tax?


Resident, so all in. In general the official dealers prices in Japan are -10% vs Europe/US (Omega, Tag, Seiko…). At least until today 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CydeWeys

vlpix said:


> Resident, so all in. In general the official dealers prices in Japan are -10% vs Europe/US (Omega, Tag, Seiko…). At least until today
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So does that mean it'd be even cheaper if you were a non-resident and could get the sales-tax-free price? (Is that possible?)


----------



## ndrs63

bibbibart said:


> IMHO, let me stress it - just IMHO, GS returned on the right path. After approx. 1 year of experimenting with Evolution 9 models (I understand many will appreciate them, I’m just a traditionalist in this respect) GS returns to its great form. Just to name a couple of recent releases:
> 
> SBGP017
> SBGK015
> SBGH297.
> 
> For me they represent a sort of milestones in modern GS history (in their respective categories). They receive huge interest - both SBGK and SBGH (in 250 and 260 volumes respectively) were snagged up within hours (should I rather say minutes?). SBGH already now reaching the asking price exceeding $20k (I mention it just to show how well this model has been received by the market).
> 
> My final point is that GS still holds strong, with its releases going vastly to brand lovers. As someone mentioned earlier - GS is all about fantastic dials. Cases as the second factor. I’m sure we will get many headaches along the way with more and more choices to make after furure GS releases. And what I personally like most about GS are their LIMITED EDITIONS (controversial, I know). It makes me run from one release to another, wait and dream about them. Getting something unique in today’s globalized economy. Everyone can have a Coke or Levi’s but not everyone the entire trio mentioned by me.


Not sure about the limited edition hype in general. Look at Panerai- they took it to an extreme. I don’t think it worked. Just confusing with so many models.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

CydeWeys said:


> So does that mean it'd be even cheaper if you were a non-resident and could get the sales-tax-free price? (Is that possible?)


Sales tax is 10% in Japan. So for a tourist the price would be ¥400k I believe.


----------



## vlpix

bibbibart said:


> Sales tax is 10% in Japan. So for a tourist the price would be ¥400k I believe.


Exactly. This week my mom will visit me so if i can still buy it and can buy another one and flip it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CydeWeys

bibbibart said:


> Sales tax is 10% in Japan. So for a tourist the price would be ¥400k I believe.


Damn, I need to go to Japan again. Hopefully they let us back in before Seiko adjusts Yen MRSPs ...


----------



## vlpix

CydeWeys said:


> Damn, I need to go to Japan again. Hopefully they let us back in before Seiko adjusts Yen MRSPs ...


A bit off topic - I think not for long, lately there have been several price revisions to bring the prices in JP on the same level of EU/US. When i moved here 3 years ago i was amazed how cheap they are compared to Europe. JLC had 3 price increases since April 2021 totalizing +50%. I know the price because i had my eyes on a Reverso and was thinking to come to Europe and get it tax free. However price in Europe minus tax free was still higher then the full retail price in JP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

SPG017 Video out:


----------



## Tanker G1

Euron Greyjoy said:


> SPG017 Video out:


Thanks for posting. Not nearly as blue as I thought but I'll reserve judgement.

Starting to feel like Forrest Gump with a box of chocolates. "You never know what you're gonna get."


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Tanker G1 said:


> Thanks for posting. Not nearly as blue as I thought but I'll reserve judgement.


My thoughts exactly. The Lion's Mane dial varies so much from one photo to another, I don't know what to trust until I've seen dozens like with SBGA413.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Tanker G1 said:


> Thanks for posting. Not nearly as blue as I thought but I'll reserve judgement.
> 
> Starting to feel like Forrest Gump with a box of chocolates. "You never know what you're gonna get."


Agreed but I guess it's the same as many of their Dials - very much depends on the lighting, indoors vs outdoors, time of day, sun, no sun etc.

I guess this video only shows how it looks under a certain type of possibly artifical light.

That being said, I'm hoping for a stronger hint of blue compared to the extremely subtle pink of the SBGA413.


----------



## gelatomancer

I like that the SBGP017 isn't the baby blue in the photos. I think it will be a lot more versatile as a not-quite-white watch.


----------



## Raindrops

From the video the colour of SBGP017 looks reminiscent of the Skyflake which I tried on a few years ago (I don’t own one). The difference being the swirly pattern I guess?


----------



## Kakemonster

gelatomancer said:


> I like that the SBGP017 isn't the baby blue in the photos. I think it will be a lot more versatile as a not-quite-white watch.


My sentiment as well. This is much more in line of what I was hoping for. It does actually live up to its name, i.e. a sea of clouds.


----------



## CydeWeys

The Hodinkee store just randomly got SBGW289 in stock for the first time, if anyone was looking to snag one and missed out so far:



https://shop.hodinkee.com/collections/watches/products/44gs-55th-anniversary-limited-edition-sbgw289


----------



## CydeWeys

CydeWeys said:


> The Hodinkee store just randomly got SBGW289 in stock for the first time, if anyone was looking to snag one and missed out so far:
> 
> 
> 
> https://shop.hodinkee.com/collections/watches/products/44gs-55th-anniversary-limited-edition-sbgw289


Wow, it sold out within a few hours. Wonder who heard about it?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

CydeWeys said:


> Wow, it sold out within a few hours. Wonder who heard about it?


Sadly, I bet several will reappear on Chrono24 with 40% markup.


----------



## mitch57

$5400.00 for a quartz watch? Sorry, but I will not be participating at these price points for a quartz watch.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

mitch57 said:


> $5400.00 for a quartz watch? Sorry, but I will not be participating at these price points for a quartz watch.



It's a manual winding caliber: 9S64.


----------



## mitch57

Euron Greyjoy said:


> It's a manual winding caliber: 9S64.


Sorry. I got confused with the posts. I was referring to your post on the SBGP017. It's $3800.00 which is still way more than I would pay for any Quartz watch. Regardless how accurate it is.


----------



## SmxxtSmxxt

SBGZ003, a simple design piece.
and BTW,
A few days ago Citizen also released a limited edition moon phase watch tho.
That is also a beautiful piece.


----------



## gelatomancer

mitch57 said:


> Sorry. I got confused with the posts. I was referring to your post on the SBGP017. It's $3800.00 which is still way more than I would pay for any Quartz watch. Regardless how accurate it is.


If you look at GS's pricing structure, it's just their baseline on a 44gs. The cheapest 44gs quartz is $3200 and the cheapest 44gs SD is $5200 or $6100 for a 44gs automatic. So, the question becomes is the 9f movement worth $2000 less than a SD, or $2900 less advanced than a hi-beat? Sure, it ticks but you're still getting the same quality as their high end movement watches.


----------



## ExMachina

Has GS announced any more hand wind, spring drive models for the next year? I like the current release okay (with the light blue dial), but think the clean nature of the face (no date and no PR indicator) really opens the door to showcasing even more amazing dials


----------



## quasitime

gelatomancer said:


> If you look at GS's pricing structure, it's just their baseline on a 44gs. The cheapest 44gs quartz is $3200 and the cheapest 44gs SD is $5200 or $6100 for a 44gs automatic. So, the question becomes is the 9f movement worth $2000 less than a SD, or $2900 less advanced than a hi-beat? Sure, it ticks but you're still getting the same quality as their high end movement watches.


This is a tough one for me. I have nothing against quartz watches, and I own a higher end one from the Citizen Atessa line. Love that the second hand lines up perfectly and it's deadly accurate, has the satellite sync movement.

If I get GS, I want that thing to feel alive on the wrist. I want it to be a mechanical marvel, and I hope I get that feeling eventually with the spring drive movement. (or high beat)

The SBGP017 looks beautiful especially with the quartz open caseback. From a collectors perspective, that alone is worth it .... Probably. I have a feeling it may get old for me fast though, personally.


----------



## mitch57

gelatomancer said:


> If you look at GS's pricing structure, it's just their baseline on a 44gs. The cheapest 44gs quartz is $3200 and the cheapest 44gs SD is $5200 or $6100 for a 44gs automatic. So, the question becomes is the 9f movement worth $2000 less than a SD, or $2900 less advanced than a hi-beat? Sure, it ticks but you're still getting the same quality as their high end movement watches.


A high end watch that requires a battery change to keep it running? No Thank You. 

I can run a mechanical watch for decades, without service, in rotation with other watches. Let's see any Quartz watch do that unless it's a Solar Quartz which Grand Seiko doesn't seem to want to do because they can charge more for a Quartz watch with a battery. Plus the potential revenue for battery service every few years.

Additionally, the cost to manufacture/produce a Quartz watch is significantly less expensive than a mechanical watch. GS prices their Quartz watches at their price point because they CAN. Not because it costs that much to make a Quartz watch or because it's of the same quality. They may use the same dials, cases and indices but lets face the facts. The amount of human interaction and the parts count on a mechanical watch is much more laborious than a Quartz watch. If you want accuracy without soul buy a Quartz watch.

There is no soul in a Quartz watch where a mechanical watch requires the human wearing it to interact with it to keep it's heart beating. Who wants to see the movement of a Quartz watch through a see-through case back that doesn't have anything but a hunk of machined metal with a battery in it. Fugly indeed!


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

mitch57 said:


> A high end watch that requires a battery change to keep it running? No Thank You.
> 
> I can run a mechanical watch for decades, without service, in rotation with other watches. Let's see any Quartz watch do that unless it's a Solar Quartz which Grand Seiko doesn't seem to want to do because they can charge more for a Quartz watch with a battery. Plus the potential revenue for battery service every few years.
> 
> Additionally, the cost to manufacture/produce a Quartz watch is significantly less expensive than a mechanical watch. GS prices their Quartz watches at their price point because they CAN. Not because it costs that much to make a Quartz watch or because it's of the same quality. They may use the same dials, cases and indices but lets face the facts. The amount of human interaction and the parts count on a mechanical watch is much more laborious than a Quartz watch. If you want accuracy without soul buy a Quartz watch.
> 
> There is no soul in a Quartz watch where a mechanical watch requires the human wearing it to interact with it to keep it's heart beating. Who wants to see the movement of a Quartz watch through a see-through case back that doesn't have anything but a hunk of machined metal with a battery in it. Fugly indeed!


Wow, couldn't disagree more, GS Quartz watches are truly amazing and not your average quartz. Plus they're priced accordingly and a real steal for what you're getting.

And there I thought GS Fans unanimously love the 9F.

I've talked to many GS Fans and they're so hyped about this new limited edition Quartz (as am I), only the third GS Quartz watch ever with this beautiful open Caseback showcasing the 9F.

The whole allotment for Thailand was sold out immediately and prices on Chrono24 start to go up now.

That being said, I used to be a mechanical only watch guy myself and own mostly mechanical watches, many of them from GS. I get that they're different.

But a GS Quartz is truly special too, they're so incredibly accurate and the same craftsmanship goes into making them, therefore I really don't understand the Quartz hate, especially if you're buying a GS Quartz watch that will last a lifetime and only needs a cheap battery change every few years and probably no maintenance at all, at least not nearly as often as any mechanical watch.

P.S.: This is not meant as an offense at all but while I was posting I saw this article pop up  









The Grand Seiko SBGP017 raises a refined middle finger to movement snobs


The Grand Seiko SBGP017 has one of the best dials around with a movement accurate within a few seconds per year. It's an absolute doozy.




timeandtidewatches.com


----------



## One-Seventy

mitch57 said:


> I can run a mechanical watch for decades, without service, in rotation with other watches.


No, no you can't.

And here comes the most tired of all worn-out newbie arguments. You know it's coming, like a slow-mo train wreck, but try to avert your eyes, are you ready...


> There is no soul in a Quartz watch where a mechanical watch requires the human wearing it to interact with it to keep it's heart beating.


Ah, soul.


Euron Greyjoy said:


> And there I thought GS Fans unanimously love the 9F.


There is no such thing as universal adulation, but the world has mostly moved on from movement snobbery. Mostly. 

No matter how well decorated, a display back on a quartz watch will always find a way to offend _someone - _and the internet is brilliant at that bit, of course


----------



## Tanker G1

mitch57 said:


> Let's see any Quartz watch do that unless it's a Solar Quartz which Grand Seiko doesn't seem to want to do because they can charge more for a Quartz watch with a battery.


What twisted logic is this? A solar quartz costs more to produce than a battery quartz.



> Plus the potential revenue for battery service every few years.


Are you serious? You can't be serious? 



> GS prices their Quartz watches at their price point because they CAN.


How is this different from any other offering from any other manufacturer?



> There is no soul in a Quartz watch...




You should read the below link, all of it, but I doubt you will.

Quartz | Grand Seiko

This place really needs a 'dislike' option.


----------



## Gebbeth

mitch57 said:


> A high end watch that requires a battery change to keep it running? No Thank You.
> 
> I can run a mechanical watch for decades, without service, in rotation with other watches. Let's see any Quartz watch do that unless it's a Solar Quartz which Grand Seiko doesn't seem to want to do because they can charge more for a Quartz watch with a battery. Plus the potential revenue for battery service every few years.
> 
> Additionally, the cost to manufacture/produce a Quartz watch is significantly less expensive than a mechanical watch. GS prices their Quartz watches at their price point because they CAN. Not because it costs that much to make a Quartz watch or because it's of the same quality. They may use the same dials, cases and indices but lets face the facts. The amount of human interaction and the parts count on a mechanical watch is much more laborious than a Quartz watch. If you want accuracy without soul buy a Quartz watch.
> 
> There is no soul in a Quartz watch where a mechanical watch requires the human wearing it to interact with it to keep it's heart beating. Who wants to see the movement of a Quartz watch through a see-through case back that doesn't have anything but a hunk of machined metal with a battery in it. Fugly indeed!


Wow. This is a "unique" viewpoint. I never thought something being solid state made it a non-luxury item..

Does luxury aways mean mechanical? If a solid state device that is designed to keep precise time is implemented in a luxury device meant to keep precise time, that this is somehow not luxury is news to me.

I guess I'm going to have to wait for my hand-cranked Mercedes or Porsche. I mean an electronic ignition system would not be luxury afterall, and I want a pure luxury car.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

mitch57 said:


> If you want accuracy without soul buy a Quartz watch. There is no soul in a Quartz watch where a mechanical watch requires the human wearing it to interact with it to keep it's heart beating.


Our child, your cogs and crystals alike strive for accuracy bereft of soul. The true horological purist observes passage of time exclusively by celestial bodies. The same warm radiance sustaining all life on our planet also powers our sundial, the original timepiece with a power reserve of roughly nine billion years. You may applaud our enlightened superiority and aspire to join us on the heights one day. At least for the bright half, weather permitting. Punch and pie.

/sarcasm

Seriously, tell me more about your desperation to feel superior about something. Wristwatch movements must be as good as anything.


----------



## gelatomancer

mitch57 said:


> A high end watch that requires a battery change to keep it running? No Thank You.
> 
> I can run a mechanical watch for decades, without service, in rotation with other watches. Let's see any Quartz watch do that unless it's a Solar Quartz which Grand Seiko doesn't seem to want to do because they can charge more for a Quartz watch with a battery. Plus the potential revenue for battery service every few years.
> 
> Additionally, the cost to manufacture/produce a Quartz watch is significantly less expensive than a mechanical watch. GS prices their Quartz watches at their price point because they CAN. Not because it costs that much to make a Quartz watch or because it's of the same quality. They may use the same dials, cases and indices but lets face the facts. The amount of human interaction and the parts count on a mechanical watch is much more laborious than a Quartz watch. If you want accuracy without soul buy a Quartz watch.
> 
> There is no soul in a Quartz watch where a mechanical watch requires the human wearing it to interact with it to keep it's heart beating. Who wants to see the movement of a Quartz watch through a see-through case back that doesn't have anything but a hunk of machined metal with a battery in it. Fugly indeed!











EXPLAINED: Seiko 9F Quartz Movements – Definitive Proof That High-End Quartz Exists | SJX Watches


A high-end quartz movement would seem to be an oxymoron. But it does exist in the form of the Seiko 9F calibre, a supremely sophisticated quartz chronometer rated to +/- 10 seconds a year. Used primarily in Grand Seiko watches, the 9F is possibly the best quartz movement in the world.




watchesbysjx.com





A good article on how complex a 9f really is.

They're not just a crystal slapped in a case with a battery and some gears. There's still a ton of hands on work needed to make them as accurate as they are.


----------



## smalleq

Dumb thing here is that the movement is only a fraction of the cost of the watch and any Grand Seiko in particular. A high-end quartz movement like the 9F, definitely cost less than the base level Spring Drive or High-beat movements, but probably no less than a third. Everything, else, case finishing, hands, and bracelet are more or less the same.

So then one can take a look at the cost delta between the same case with different movements to see how GS is valuing the different movement tech involved. Let's take the 44GS case. We have the quartz SBGP005, a Spring Drive SBGA375, the High-Beat SBGH277 and the GMT High-Beat SBGJ203. These are priced at $3200, $5200, $6100 and $6300 respectively. It seems like relative to the likely cost of the movement, they value the quartz models much less than the Spring Drive or High-beats. 

The quartz 44GS watches are almost 40% cheaper than the Spring Drive and nearly 50% less than the high-beat. While one can easily make the argument that all luxury watches are overpriced, it does seem that with all else being equal, GS does appropriately weigh the relative cost of their quartz models to make them in line with their non-quartz models.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

There are too many variables for an outsider to make anything more than rough estimates about relative production cost. GS is completely vertically integrated, including growing and aging their own quartz crystals. How much does that process cost? What is the rejection rate? How many must be produced before isolating the most stable for HAQ? What is the cost of the thermocompensator added to finally achieve max variation of +/-5 seconds per year though commonly seen performing +/- 1 second per year? Add all their routine costs of production, finishing, etc. common to all models. Then markup.

In the end, the market says what price it will tolerate. Compare to the SBGP007 released early 2020, limited to 2500 pieces, and still available last I checked a few months ago. This SBGP017 was limited to 2000 and sold out in a day or two. The only differences are 20% fewer pieces, 44GS case, exhibition caseback, and (big difference) a new lion's mane dial. The market has spoken by buying out all allocations in only a day or two: the price was deemed reasonable based on some combination of these purely subjective differences.

I had passed on the SBGP007 and sprang for SBGP017 based solely on the dials -- would bet many others did, too.


----------



## gelatomancer

Chrono Brewer said:


> I had passed on the SBGP007 and sprang for SBGP017 based solely on the dials -- would bet many others did, too.


Or you could be like me and get both, lol.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

gelatomancer said:


> Or you could be like me and get both, lol.


Shine on, you crazy diamond.


----------



## mitch57

Holly crap! This must be a Quartz fan boy forum. Just because I don't like Quartz watches and voice my opinion I get flamed.

I have many reasons for not liking Quartz watches. I've owned many, many Quartz watches in my 65 years. Attached is one of them. I also currently own two working Quartz watches but only wear them as beater watches now. Both watches cost upward of 1.5K. I moved away from Quartz because I got sick and tired of having to get the batteries changed. Usually at the most inopportune time. You can only change the battery so many times before you need new seals and parts availability, especially from GS/Seiko is terrible. Not to mention GS's atrocious customer service and support.

I also don't like the 1 second sweep of the second hand on Quartz watches. The second hand on many of these Quartz watches, including GS, don't line up with the dial markers on every second marker. There always seems to be one or two markers that the second hand won't hit dead on.

Why the big hate for an individual's opinion? I think I already mentioned why. To each their own. I voiced my opinion you voice yours.


----------



## mitch57

One-Seventy said:


> No, no you can't.


Oh really? So why do I own several mechanical watches that have not been serviced in over 10 years and have never had the case back opened yet are still keeping time within 0 -6 seconds per day? How do you explain that? I must have some magical wrists that allow those watches to still keep excellent time for more than 10 years without service. I won't even go into the many mechanical pocket watches I own that are over 100 years old and still running and keeping good time.



One-Seventy said:


> And here comes the most tired of all worn-out newbie arguments. You know it's coming, like a slow-mo train wreck, but try to avert your eyes, are you ready...


"worn-out newbie"? I've owned and have been wearing watches for well over 50 years. Including Quartz. Perhaps you've confused me with you and your group of "newbies" unless you're well over 65 years old. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start calling me a "worn-out newbie".


----------



## One-Seventy

mitch57 said:


> Oh really? So why do I own several mechanical watches that have not been serviced in over 10 years and have never had the case back opened yet are still keeping time within 0 -6 seconds per day? How do you explain that? I must have some magical wrists that allow those watches to still keep excellent time for more than 10 years without service. I won't even go into the many mechanical pocket watches I own that are over 100 years old and still running and keeping good time.


Because you're either lucky, or lying.


> "worn-out newbie"? I've owned and have been wearing watches for well over 50 years. Including Quartz. Perhaps you've confused me with you and your group of "newbies" unless you're well over 65 years old. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start calling me a "worn-out newbie".


Maybe you should go back and read what I wrote!


mitch57 said:


> Holly crap! This must be a Quartz fan boy forum. Just because I don't like Quartz watches and voice my opinion I get flamed.


It was your inflammatory language, and you knew it.


----------



## Gebbeth

One-Seventy said:


> Because you're either lucky, or lying.
> 
> Maybe you should go back and read what I wrote!
> 
> It was your inflammatory language, and you knew it.


The quartz hater comment was pretty obvious. It's one thing to say you prefer mechanical movements. It's another to talk about it like they are anathema to high horology.

It's amazing the snobbery. 

It's also so dismissive of the countless decades and millions and millions of dollars that went into the R&D of quartz technology. It's quite amazing, and we take it for granted.


----------



## Tanker G1

mitch57 said:


> Holly crap! This must be a Quartz fan boy forum.


The reaction couldn't possibly be because you posted an infantile rant against GS quartz like it kicked your dog, or that your rant is full of asinine assertions and your clear ignorance of the subject prompted multiple people to respond, right?


----------



## percysmith

mitch57 said:


> A high end watch that requires a battery change to keep it running? No Thank You.
> 
> I can run a mechanical watch for decades, without service, in rotation with other watches. Let's see any Quartz watch do that unless it's a Solar Quartz which Grand Seiko doesn't seem to want to do because they can charge more for a Quartz watch with a battery. Plus the potential revenue for battery service every few years.
> 
> Additionally, the cost to manufacture/produce a Quartz watch is significantly less expensive than a mechanical watch. GS prices their Quartz watches at their price point because they CAN. Not because it costs that much to make a Quartz watch or because it's of the same quality. They may use the same dials, cases and indices but lets face the facts. The amount of human interaction and the parts count on a mechanical watch is much more laborious than a Quartz watch. If you want accuracy without soul buy a Quartz watch.
> 
> There is no soul in a Quartz watch where a mechanical watch requires the human wearing it to interact with it to keep it's heart beating. Who wants to see the movement of a Quartz watch through a see-through case back that doesn't have anything but a hunk of machined metal with a battery in it. Fugly indeed!





One-Seventy said:


> No, no you can't.
> 
> And here comes the most tired of all worn-out newbie arguments. You know it's coming, like a slow-mo train wreck, but try to avert your eyes, are you ready...
> 
> Ah, soul.
> 
> There is no such thing as universal adulation, but the world has mostly moved on from movement snobbery. Mostly.
> 
> No matter how well decorated, a display back on a quartz watch will always find a way to offend _someone - _and the internet is brilliant at that bit, of course


Well this is the Grand Seiko thread...

1. My SBGR is 4 years old. 1 years since last service, runs -6 to 0spd. Not very impressive, but since it is consistently -6 to 0, all I do each week is to set it one week ahead and that's the end of it.

2. I'm not a quartz hater per se, but I don't like second-by-second ticking. I have mechaquartz pieces based on VH31 and VK63 (TMI, haha)

3. OTOH I haven't really sprung for a spring drive (excuse the pun) - I just see them too hard to service, and too much to throw away. Plus, not really sure about silent movements.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

mitch57 said:


> Holly crap! This must be a Quartz fan boy forum. Just because I don't like Quartz watches and voice my opinion *express superiority by asserting anyone who feels different is not an enthusiast but a casual participant whose interest lacks soul, then try to cover by pulling a weak strawman argument as they call my bull for what it is *I get flamed.


FIFY.


----------



## gelatomancer

Gonna have to put a new link in my bracelet. All the salt in here is causing my wrist to swell (and GS still can't put a microadjust on their clasps)


----------



## One-Seventy

Turns out there IS a "dislike" button. Only it's not called that .


----------



## Miawwwn

Do you know if there is any video of the watch (SBGP017) actually ticking? All the vids I could find on YT are either a montage of fixed pictures, or people handling a non-functional (mock-up?) watch with the hands stuck on 10:10.42 🥸


----------



## gelatomancer

Miawwwn said:


> Do you know if there is any video of the watch (SBGP017) actually ticking? All the vids I could find on YT are either a montage of fixed pictures, or people handling a non-functional (mock-up?) watch with the hands stuck on 10:10.42 🥸


I haven't seen a working model that has been shown to the public.


----------



## Gebbeth

percysmith said:


> Well this is the Grand Seiko thread...
> 
> 1. My SBGR is 4 years old. 1 years since last service, runs -6 to 0spd. Not very impressive, but since it is consistently -6 to 0, all I do each week is to set it one week ahead and that's the end of it.
> 
> 2. I'm not a quartz hater per se, but I don't like second-by-second ticking. I have mechaquartz pieces based on VH31 and VK63 (TMI, haha)
> 
> 3. OTOH I haven't really sprung for a spring drive (excuse the pun) - I just see them too hard to service, and too much to throw away. Plus, not really sure about silent movements.


And to think a remontoir d'egalite with a dead beat seconds feature was actually once considered a desirable feature of a watch.

If you need precision timing to the second, especially when timing an event or synchronizing events (um, like in engineering, medical and rescue, and the military), you want a dead beat seconds.

Maybe not for everyone, but I never considered this a negative.


----------



## BarracksSi

Gebbeth said:


> And to think a remontoir d'egalite with a dead beat seconds feature was actually once considered a desirable feature of a watch.


And for me, the funny thing is, two of the watches I'd like to have in my stash are a GS Spring Drive and JLC's True Second dead beat watch. A "quartz" that doesn't tick, and a mechanical that only ticks every second.


----------



## Gebbeth

BarracksSi said:


> And for
> me, the funny thing is, two of the watches I'd like to have in my stash are a GS Spring Drive and JLC's True Second dead beat watch. A "quartz" that doesn't tick, and a mechanical that only ticks every second.


Me as well. Aching for a GS Spring Drive, and a Sinn UX, and an ALS Richard Lange Jumping Seconds.


----------



## Loevhagen




----------



## CydeWeys

Chrono Brewer said:


> I had passed on the SBGP007 and sprang for SBGP017 based solely on the dials -- would bet many others did, too.


100%. GS is all about the beautifully textured and colored dials that you can't get anywhere else. SBGP007 doesn't look much different than, say, a Rolex OP 41 blue, and respectfully to GS, the OP is the better buy at MSRP.


----------



## JaySol

I love the GS dials and the SD movement, I just wish they'd step outside the box a bit and come up with some more unique designs like SD's with no date, better bracelets, and different case shapes. I want to get more GS but they just all look so similar and I like some uniqueness to my watches.

That being said, my GS Snowflake is amazing.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

JaySol said:


> I love the GS dials and the SD movement, I just wish they'd step outside the box a bit and come up with some more unique designs like SD's with no date, better bracelets, and different case shapes. I want to get more GS but they just all look so similar and I like some uniqueness to my watches.
> 
> That being said, my GS Snowflake is amazing.


Agreed 100%. Closest I’ve seen (in steel anyway) is the SBGY007 Omiwatari. Pretty cool hand-wound, no-date SD. I just didn’t dig the dial as much as the same texture with a different finish on SLGA007 Minamo.

At the rate they’re pumping out new models, new dial art on the Omiwatari is bound to come soon. Especially for how acclaimed it’s been.


----------



## JaySol

Chrono Brewer said:


> Agreed 100%. Closest I’ve seen (in steel anyway) is the SBGY007 Omiwatari. Pretty cool hand-wound, no-date SD. I just didn’t dig the dial as much as the same texture with a different finish on SLGA007 Minamo.
> 
> At the rate they’re pumping out new combinations, it’s bound to come soon.


I never noticed the SBGY007 before! The case size is great at 38.5mm and I love that it's SD with no date on it. The dial is great as per usual although that color blue isn't my style. If they start to release more watches like this in different colors I'll definitely have to add more GS in the future.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

JaySol said:


> I never noticed the SBGY007 before! The case size is great at 38.5mm and I love that it's SD with no date on it. The dial is great as per usual although that color blue isn't my style. If they start to release more watches like this in different colors I'll definitely have to add more GS in the future.


Now that I look it up, they've used that 9R31 movement for only three models. The Omiwatari is the first not in gold but they may take a while to release another after all. At least if so few models implies they are keeping it special/uncommon.

Just imagine the Omiwatari in pure white with rose gold (and limited to only 60 pieces), or your Snowflake dateless in yellow gold -- those are true trophies.


----------



## CydeWeys

Chrono Brewer said:


> Now that I look it up, they've used that 9R31 movement for only three models. The Omiwatari is the first not in gold but they may take a while to release another after all. At least if so few models implies they are keeping it special/uncommon.
> 
> Just imagine the Omiwatari in pure white with rose gold (and limited to only 60 pieces), or your Snowflake dateless in yellow gold -- those are true trophies.
> 
> View attachment 16722842


Uhhh why the heck is there a $13k difference between the two full gold models? MSRP inflation over time? There do look to be some good deals on SBGY002 on Chrono24 at least -- "only" $15k.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

CydeWeys said:


> Uhhh why the heck is there a $13k difference between the two full gold models? MSRP inflation over time? There do look to be some good deals on SBGY002 on Chrono24 at least -- "only" $15k.


Limit of 60 pieces versus ongoing production. Still seems a bit much.


----------



## bibbibart

Chrono Brewer said:


> Now that I look it up, they've used that 9R31 movement for only three models. The Omiwatari is the first not in gold but they may take a while to release another after all. At least if so few models implies they are keeping it special/uncommon.
> 
> Just imagine the Omiwatari in pure white with rose gold (and limited to only 60 pieces), or your Snowflake dateless in yellow gold -- those are true trophies.
> 
> View attachment 16722842


There’s one more model with 9R31 - the one and only, cult SBGY003.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

bibbibart said:


> SBGY003


Good call. Limited to 700, it seems. They could get a lot more mileage out of that movement.


----------



## jmariorebelo

There another one (at least), the limited to 22 pieces SBGY005. Extremely rare to even find photos of the thing, let alone one for sale.










And on a similar note, there's the SBGX331 with a quartz movement and a champagne sunburst dial. Lovely looking thing.









Poll: SBGW231 or SBGX331


***edit - decision made: Review to come. SBGW231 SBGX331 SBGX319 Hi all, In my journey to a GS only collection, I am looking to add a no-date dress watch and my options so far are the SBGW231, SBGX331 and (recently added) SBGX319. Advantage 231: Dial and hands (very calatrava-esque)...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## CydeWeys

jmariorebelo said:


> There another one (at least), the limited to 22 pieces SBGY005. Extremely rare to even find photos of the thing, let alone one for sale.
> 
> View attachment 16723635


OMG, I love SBGY005! How have I never even heard of it before? It's a huge shame that only 22 of those were made. It's gorgeous. They could've made 500 of them and sold them all.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

CydeWeys said:


> OMG, I love SBGY005! How have I never even heard of it before? It's a huge shame that only 22 of those were made. It's gorgeous. They could've made 500 of them and sold them all.


Oh my.

New to me as well and would totally be on my wrist had I known. But then Plus9Time says it was a Takashimaya Osaka LE. A quick search says WatchCharts sold one for $15,000, Govberg Jewelers another for $16,950. Want to hear the most painful part?

It originally retailed for ¥940,000, equivalent to just $7,000. If only I'd been strolling through Takashimaya that day...


----------



## super_purple

jmariorebelo said:


> There another one (at least), the limited to 22 pieces SBGY005. Extremely rare to even find photos of the thing, let alone one for sale.
> 
> View attachment 16723635
> 
> 
> And on a similar note, there's the SBGX331 with a quartz movement and a champagne sunburst dial. Lovely looking thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poll: SBGW231 or SBGX331
> 
> 
> ***edit - decision made: Review to come. SBGW231 SBGX331 SBGX319 Hi all, In my journey to a GS only collection, I am looking to add a no-date dress watch and my options so far are the SBGW231, SBGX331 and (recently added) SBGX319. Advantage 231: Dial and hands (very calatrava-esque)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16723640


Glad my photo of the SBGY005 remains one of the few that can be found online  It is indeed a beautiful piece, to the point where I could not bear to wear it at all. That's how it ended up being sold. I should have taken better photos outdoors when I had the chance. It has the best dial I've seen on any GS.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

super_purple said:


> Glad my photo of the SBGY005 remains one of the few that can be found online  It is indeed a beautiful piece, to the point where I could not bear to wear it at all. That's how it ended up being sold. I should have taken better photos outdoors when I had the chance. It has the best dial I've seen on any GS.


It sure looks nice. Isn't this dial basically the same as the SPGP017 though? Except for possibly the blue tone:


----------



## bibbibart

SBGY005 has the lion’s mane dial. Unfortunately (IMHO), GS has devaluated this pattern since then, recently finding its way to a (fantastic, I admit) quartz piece. If I had the SBGY005 I would have regretted the dial from a 22-piece model was repeated in many others (incl. unlimited US releases of 413&415).

For this reason I would like the SBGY003 (which I regret not to own) to be repeated in the same case style. However, only in another, strictly limited run.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

bibbibart said:


> SBGY005 has the lion’s mane dial. Unfortunately (IMHO), GS has devaluated this pattern since then, recently finding its way to a (fantastic, I admit) quartz piece. If I had the SBGY005 I would have regretted the dial from a 22-piece model was repeated in many others (incl. unlimited US releases of 413&415).
> 
> For this reason I would like the SBGY003 (which I regret not to own) to be repeated in the same case style. However, only in another, strictly limited run.


I'm really happy they used it for this particular quartz as I wanted a dressy quartz anyway. 

The 413/415 are not limited to the US anymore btw, bought my Sakura in Thailand last year when they launched worldwide.


----------



## ILeicaWatches

bibbibart said:


> There’s one more model with 9R31 - the one and only, cult SBGY003.


My goodness!! That is beautiful! I need to stay off this thread because now I want one. But now that I found out my chances are 
Global Population divided by 20 I’m pretty heartbroken :/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ILeicaWatches

jmariorebelo said:


> There another one (at least), the limited to 22 pieces SBGY005. Extremely rare to even find photos of the thing, let alone one for sale.
> 
> View attachment 16723635
> 
> 
> And on a similar note, there's the SBGX331 with a quartz movement and a champagne sunburst dial. Lovely looking thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poll: SBGW231 or SBGX331
> 
> 
> ***edit - decision made: Review to come. SBGW231 SBGX331 SBGX319 Hi all, In my journey to a GS only collection, I am looking to add a no-date dress watch and my options so far are the SBGW231, SBGX331 and (recently added) SBGX319. Advantage 231: Dial and hands (very calatrava-esque)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16723640


Holy moly now another one with slightly better odds of getting!! That SBGY005 is incredible!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jmariorebelo

super_purple said:


> Glad my photo of the SBGY005 remains one of the few that can be found online  It is indeed a beautiful piece, to the point where I could not bear to wear it at all. That's how it ended up being sold. I should have taken better photos outdoors when I had the chance. It has the best dial I've seen on any GS.


Yeah I feel what you say, haven't seen this one in real life but got the same reaction handling the SBGY007. They're so precious, jewellery like, I think I'd be afraid of wearing it.


----------



## super_purple

There is one slightly worn SBGY005 on the market going for USD 20,000 right now. 



bibbibart said:


> SBGY005 has the lion’s mane dial. Unfortunately (IMHO), GS has devaluated this pattern since then, recently finding its way to a (fantastic, I admit) quartz piece. If I had the SBGY005 I would have regretted the dial from a 22-piece model was repeated in many others (incl. unlimited US releases of 413&415).
> 
> For this reason I would like the SBGY003 (which I regret not to own) to be repeated in the same case style. However, only in another, strictly limited run.


I agree with you on this. Since owning the SBGY005, I've also had the SBGY007 (same case) and SBGA413/415 (same dial, different color). The defining features of the SBGY005 seem less unique knowing they are present separately on mass production models. I'm not sure if it worth such a premium at this point. I'll be waiting for the next limited edition SBGY and I hope it comes with a one-off dial.


----------



## bibbibart

super_purple said:


> There is one slightly worn SBGY005 on the market going for USD 20,000 right now.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you on this. Since owning the SBGY005, I've also had the SBGY007 (same case) and SBGA413/415 (same dial, different color). The defining features of the SBGY005 seem less unique knowing they are present separately on mass production models. I'm not sure if it worth such a premium at this point. I'll be waiting for the next limited edition SBGY and I hope it comes with a one-off dial.


The uniqueness of a dial is especially precious in Grand Seiko (as the dial-driven brand). That’s why IMHO the new Ginza model, SBGH297, though might not have a breathing dial, will be unique as most probably its dial will never ever be repeated. Photo from IG.


----------



## chas58

bibbibart said:


> The uniqueness of a dial is especially precious in Grand Seiko (as the dial-driven brand). That’s why IMHO the new Ginza model, SBGH297, though might not have a breathing dial, will be unique as most probably its dial will never ever be repeated.


Could be, but with GS doing so many releases, it seems like they design a dial, then release it in a multitude of colors. 


super_purple said:


> Glad my photo of the SBGY005 remains one of the few that can be found online  It is indeed a beautiful piece, to the point where I could not bear to wear it at all. That's how it ended up being sold. I should have taken better photos outdoors when I had the chance. It has the best dial I've seen on any GS.


Kinda looks like a lighter version of my dial... 
... but yeah, best dial I've seen.


----------



## vy7478

Just stumbled upon this browsing the GS online boutique - the new SBGK015 Ryusendo is now listed as a limited edition of 300 pieces. Pretty sure the limit was set at 250 during its release, I wonder what's the story behind the change.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

vy7478 said:


> Just stumbled upon this browsing the GS online boutique - the new SBGK015 Ryusendo is now listed as a limited edition of 300 pieces. Pretty sure the limit was set at 250 during its release, I wonder what's the story behind the change.


Good catch.

Supervisor: "Did you finish the Ryusendo stamps?"
Operator: "Yes, here are the 300 requested."
Supervisor: "300? We requested 250."
Both: ...


----------



## bibbibart

vy7478 said:


> Just stumbled upon this browsing the GS online boutique - the new SBGK015 Ryusendo is now listed as a limited edition of 300 pieces. Pretty sure the limit was set at 250 during its release, I wonder what's the story behind the change.


It still says so on the GS US Twitter. 

How about the Blue Peacock - does it still say 500 pcs?


----------



## vy7478

bibbibart said:


> It still says so on the GS US Twitter.
> 
> How about the Blue Peacock - does it still say 500 pcs?


Blue peacock appears to still be 500 pcs. 

Perhaps there was so much demand that management decided to make some more. I believe management also made extras of the Hodinkee GMT, hence they appear to still be available on the Hodinkee shop.


----------



## gelatomancer

vy7478 said:


> Blue peacock appears to still be 500 pcs.
> 
> Perhaps there was so much demand that management decided to make some more. I believe management also made extras of the Hodinkee GMT, hence they appear to still be available on the Hodinkee shop.


50 more at 7,500 is a nice 375 grand. It would be tough to pass up...


----------



## Chrono Brewer

vy7478 said:


> Blue peacock appears to still be 500 pcs.
> 
> Perhaps there was so much demand that management decided to make some more. I believe management also made extras of the Hodinkee GMT, hence they appear to still be available on the Hodinkee shop.


Hadn't realized. This bugs me even more than seeing a LE model nearly replicated in another general production model. You were told you would get 1/500 Hodinkee collaboration pieces but now it's 1/[however many they feel like]? I know GS is in business to make money but that's deceptive.

Unless they were releasing the total in batches like they sometimes do with the limiteds sold on GS Boutique Online. But those still exhaust supply within a couple days. No way have they not sold all 500 of the originally slated Hodinkee pieces in two years.


----------



## vy7478

Chrono Brewer said:


> Hadn't realized. This bugs me even more than seeing a LE model nearly replicated in another general production model. You were told you would get 1/500 Hodinkee collaboration pieces but now it's 1/[however many they feel like]? I know GS is in business to make money but that's deceptive.
> 
> Unless they were releasing the total in batches like they sometimes do with the limiteds sold on GS Boutique Online. But those still exhaust supply within a couple days. No way have they not sold all 500 of the originally slated Hodinkee pieces in two years.


I may be wrong, but I believe the Hodinkee collab was announced as a 500pc limited edition and that has not appeared to change. I suppose it may be possible they were never able to sell the full 500, though I too am skeptical of that.


----------



## One-Seventy

gelatomancer said:


> 50 more at 7,500 is a nice 375 grand. It would be tough to pass up...


The retailer makes about half of that, assuming crudely for a sec that the markup is 100%. 

Personally I'm not bothered when country specific LEs are tweaked and made available everywhere else. If I bought an LE, I would so knowing that a version of it is likely to land later. But I guess some people think it will all stop with them


----------



## CydeWeys

vy7478 said:


> Blue peacock appears to still be 500 pcs.
> 
> Perhaps there was so much demand that management decided to make some more. I believe management also made extras of the Hodinkee GMT, hence they appear to still be available on the Hodinkee shop.


It's entirely possible they got more preorders/deposits at all their retail outlets than they were even able to fulfill with the 250 quantity, and didn't want to have to say no to anyone.

It does kind of rub me the wrong way though. I preordered it (paying 100% up front on the online boutique) knowing it was one of 250, and now it's slightly less exclusive being one of 300. Feels like the product was changed ever so slightly out from under me. And then of course you have the issue of the former US seasons exclusives that then became global, but that feels like less of a bright line to cross than changing quantity, as the quantity on those was never limited (and non-limited regional exclusives are kind of silly anyway).

The price on these LEs is always higher than regular production models, as part of what you're paying for is the exclusivity, and now they reduced the exclusivity without reducing the price for the people who already got on board when it was out of 250! I guess they'd honor cancellations at this point if it bugged anyone that much?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

CydeWeys said:


> I guess they'd honor cancellations at this point if it bugged anyone that much?


They certainly wouldn't have difficulty selling it again. But could you pass up that whirlpool dial? The original SBGH267 Whirlpool is a classic even at 1500 pieces. Bumping 250 to 300 still makes this new piece one of Grand Seiko's highlights for years.


----------



## JaySol

chas58 said:


> Could be, but with GS doing so many releases, it seems like they design a dial, then release it in a multitude of colors.
> 
> 
> Kinda looks like a lighter version of my dial...
> ... but yeah, best dial I've seen.
> 
> View attachment 16725490


This dial is amazing, is this the SD GMT? I love how they made a black dial watch pop.


----------



## chas58

JaySol said:


> This dial is amazing, is this the SD GMT? I love how they made a black dial watch pop.


That is actually "winter" so grey. Well, kinda grey. I have a picture where it looks pink, like "spring", beige and moody, muted grey, high contrast grey. Depends a lot on the lighting and the environment.


----------



## bibbibart

Here comes a strictly limited LE - 40 pieces for Isetan Shinjuku Dept. Store. SBGM251. Poor quality photos from IG at this point.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

bibbibart said:


> Here comes a strictly limited LE - 40 pieces for Isetan Shinjuku Dept. Store. SBGM251. Poor quality photos from IG at this point.


Delightful seeing that wood plank dial appear again. Heartbreaking that it's another super LE.


----------



## JaySol

Chrono Brewer said:


> Delightful seeing that wood plank dial appear again. Heartbreaking that it's another super LE.


Always a date though! I am tired of dates, would like a no date.


----------



## gelatomancer

First "In The Wild" pics I've seen of the SBGP017.


----------



## thewatchidiot

BarracksSi said:


> And for me, the funny thing is, two of the watches I'd like to have in my stash are a GS Spring Drive and JLC's True Second dead beat watch. A "quartz" that doesn't tick, and a mechanical that only ticks every second.


How interesting! I have a spring drive an I have a habring2 on order. I like the dichotomy also.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## CydeWeys

gelatomancer said:


> First "In The Wild" pics I've seen of the SBGP017.
> View attachment 16728038
> 
> View attachment 16728039
> 
> View attachment 16728040


I'm cautiously optimistic by how saturated the blue is in these pics! I hope it's not a trick of photo editing.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

CydeWeys said:


> I'm cautiously optimistic by how saturated the blue is in these pics! I hope it's not a trick of photo editing.


He also posted a video where it looks pretty blue - could've been edited too though


----------



## Whiskey&Watch

These are some sale photos of SBGP017 from a Japanese website (2nd hand goods shop). I reckon the colours are pretty accurate!


----------



## petay993

Mine is at the London Boutique being checked ready for despatch on Friday


----------



## SKYWATCH007

Whiskey&Watch said:


> These are some sale photos of SBGP017 from a Japanese website (2nd hand goods shop). I reckon the colours are pretty accurate!
> View attachment 16728452
> View attachment 16728460
> 
> View attachment 16728459
> 
> View attachment 16728457
> 
> View attachment 16728455
> 
> View attachment 16728458
> 
> View attachment 16728454
> 
> View attachment 16728456
> 
> View attachment 16728453


Such a fukin beauty!! Can't wait to get mine.


----------



## gelatomancer

Seeing a few SBGP017 pics from Europe. Has anyone seen any in the US?

Also, anyone seen a nickname for it? If the Snowflake became the Skyflake in blue, would the Shunbun become the Skybun? Cloudbun?


----------



## Plus 9Time

Just in case somebody did not want to read through the last 50 pages of posts I have put together a summary of all the 2022 first half announcements from Grand Seiko.



  






There were 38 different models announced and half of these were Spring Drives.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

gelatomancer said:


> Seeing a few SBGP017 pics from Europe. Has anyone seen any in the US?
> 
> Also, anyone seen a nickname for it? If the Snowflake became the Skyflake in blue, would the Shunbun become the Skybun? Cloudbun?


The SBGA211 Snowflake was the only model with that dial until a blue variant, so SBGA407 Skyflake was derivative but natural. On the other hand there have been so many lion's mane dials aside from the SBGA413 Shunbun that I don't think this name should be derivative. I would just call it the Grand Seiko Cloud.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Plus 9Time said:


> Just in case somebody did not want to read through the last 50 pages of posts I have put together a summary of all the 2022 first half announcements from Grand Seiko.
> 
> View attachment 16732562
> 
> 
> There were 38 different models announced and half of these were Spring Drives.
> 
> View attachment 16732580


Thank you for all the hard work compiling records. I've sifted through your database many times to get a broad view of the catalog over the years.


----------



## Robotaz

6L35 said:


> View attachment 16402622
> 
> 
> SLGH009: 44GS + 9SA5 + Ever Brilliant Steel...
> 
> View attachment 16402666
> 
> 
> View attachment 16402675


That’s tacky writing all that garbage on the rotor.


----------



## Robotaz

snash7 said:


> They already have,,,,,the SBGA371
> 
> View attachment 16402728
> 
> View attachment 16402733


Voted “Ugliest Watch 2022”

Yikes!


----------



## ryanb741

Some natural light pics of my SBGP017 just picked up


----------



## CFK-OB

ryanb741 said:


> Some natural light pics of my SBGP017 just picked up


Absolutely beautiful. That blue is stunning.


----------



## CydeWeys

How did no one post about the black birch yet? SLGH017









Grand Seiko Night Birch SLGH017 Watch Review


Grand Seiko’s Night Birch SLGH017 reinterprets a modern classic with a titanium case and dark forest dial.




oracleoftime.com


----------



## CarbonPrevails

CydeWeys said:


> How did no one post about the black birch yet? SLGH017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Night Birch SLGH017 Watch Review
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko’s Night Birch SLGH017 reinterprets a modern classic with a titanium case and dark forest dial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracleoftime.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16735456


I really hope it is a deep black in person and not a light grey. Looks pretty cool in photos but you can never really tell with Gs press pics.


----------



## matthew P

CydeWeys said:


> How did no one post about the black birch yet? SLGH017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Night Birch SLGH017 Watch Review
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko’s Night Birch SLGH017 reinterprets a modern classic with a titanium case and dark forest dial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oracleoftime.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16735456


Started a thread here in the GS forum yesterday…. 6 threads down

Some good photos on that oracle of time link- thx









Black Birch SLGH017 ….. in titanium


Seems the rumors were true. This is the black version of the new GS design language that I’ve been waiting for. ….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….




www.watchuseek.com





….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## SouthTX

My wait for a reasonably priced GS, 9F, titanium continues.


----------



## Bulovas&BoltActions

SouthTX said:


> My wait for a reasonably priced GS, 9F, titanium continues.


There's some good used options out there if you don't mind shipping something in from Japan.


----------



## SouthTX

Bulovas&BoltActions said:


> There's some good used options out there if you don't mind shipping something in from Japan.


Thank you, I will look. I have bought from U.K. but not Japan. Their used watches seem to run with small bracelet fit, requiring additional links. But will look, as GS does not move to my whims.


----------



## SouthTX

Bulovas&BoltActions said:


> There's some good used options out there if you don't mind shipping something in from Japan.


Yes found 'new' 9F titanium ones too. They do exist! Just not USA.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

SouthTX said:


> Thank you, I will look. I have bought from U.K. but not Japan. Their used watches seem to run with small bracelet fit, requiring additional links. But will look, as GS does not move to my whims.


The bracelet will need to be adjusted either way usually and the additional links are in the box so I don't quite understand this issue?


----------



## CydeWeys

Euron Greyjoy said:


> The bracelet will need to be adjusted either way usually and the additional links are in the box so I don't quite understand this issue?


Well, they should be. Always good to verify that all links are actually present and accounted for when buying new.


----------



## babbsky

Bulovas&BoltActions said:


> There's some good used options out there if you don't mind shipping something in from Japan.


@Bulovas&BoltActions ; can you please recommend a couple of good sites/ dealers that sells new or used GS and ships internationally. If not allowed on this thread can you please DM me. Thank you in advance. Cheers! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bibbibart

bibbibart said:


> Here comes a strictly limited LE - 40 pieces for Isetan Shinjuku Dept. Store. SBGM251. Poor quality photos from IG at this point.


Now with a better quality photo - the new Isetan Shinjuku LE of mere 40 pieces. SBGM251. Enjoy.


----------



## JaySol

bibbibart said:


> Now with a better quality photo - the new Isetan Shinjuku LE of mere 40 pieces. SBGM251. Enjoy.


This is beautiful, I really would love to try this on. I want a nice blue watch and a GMT feature watch would be great. I was originally thinking the blue Datejust but I don't really want a Rolex. Thanks!


----------



## Spytap

JaySol said:


> This is beautiful, I really would love to try this on. I want a nice blue watch and a GMT feature watch would be great. I was originally thinking the blue Datejust but I don't really want a Rolex. Thanks!


I know this is the wrong forum, but you might also want to check out the new Cartier blue Santos.


----------



## JaySol

Spytap said:


> I know this is the wrong forum, but you might also want to check out the new Cartier blue Santos.


Great suggestion! I am actually looking at getting a Cartier Santos and asked a few questions about it in the Cartier forum. I think the blue only comes in the large unfortunately which is a bit big for my wrist but I may get an SS or TT.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Best video of the SPG017 that I've found so far:


----------



## hkpm

For those who are waiting for the SBGP017, please check carefully the alignment of the golden star when you receive the watch. 
At least 2 owners posted photos of theirs in a chinese forum showed this problem and returned the watches.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

hkpm said:


> For those who are waiting for the SBGP017, please check carefully the alignment of the golden star when you receive the watch.
> At least 2 owners posted photos of theirs in a chinese forum showed this problem and returned the watches.


Do you have any photos of the issue?


----------



## hkpm

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Do you have any photos of the issue?


See if you guys can see the linked image.
Pictures are not taken by me. 

Sample 1









Sample 2


----------



## Chrono Brewer

hkpm said:


> See if you guys can see the linked image.
> Pictures are not taken by me.
> 
> Sample 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sample 2


WHOA. Ironic to have the emblem indicating "high quality" so crooked. How does that get past inspection at GS?

Thanks for the warning. Will look closely when mine arrives.


----------



## bibbibart

Maybe these are simply Chinese fakes…  Thanks for indication.


----------



## percysmith

bibbibart said:


> Maybe these are simply Chinese fakes…  Thanks for indication.


Uptickwatchreviews got misaligned fixed bezel on his GS GMT


----------



## john_marston

CydeWeys said:


> It's entirely possible they got more preorders/deposits at all their retail outlets than they were even able to fulfill with the 250 quantity, and didn't want to have to say no to anyone.
> 
> It does kind of rub me the wrong way though. I preordered it (paying 100% up front on the online boutique) knowing it was one of 250, and now it's slightly less exclusive being one of 300. Feels like the product was changed ever so slightly out from under me. And then of course you have the issue of the former US seasons exclusives that then became global, but that feels like less of a bright line to cross than changing quantity, as the quantity on those was never limited (and non-limited regional exclusives are kind of silly anyway).
> 
> The price on these LEs is always higher than regular production models, as part of what you're paying for is the exclusivity, and now they reduced the exclusivity without reducing the price for the people who already got on board when it was out of 250! I guess they'd honor cancellations at this point if it bugged anyone that much?


Complaining about reduced exclusivity & price when your LE is maybe 300 in stead of 250?

Maybe I’m just out of touch/budget, but the luxury watch market is truly something special.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

john_marston said:


> Complaining about reduced exclusivity & price when your LE is maybe 300 in stead of 250?
> 
> Maybe I’m just out of touch/budget, but the luxury watch market is truly something special.


I had to chuckle too. 

I also very much doubt that this happened, they'd basically have to make a new caseback for this.

Traditionally, GS will have the limited number and total quantity written on the back. 

So that'd suddenly have to read XXX/300 instead of the first lot with XXX/250? 

What about all the early buyers, a watch recall and caseback change?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Euron Greyjoy said:


> I had to chuckle too.
> 
> I also very much doubt that this happened, they'd basically have to make a new caseback for this.
> 
> Traditionally, GS will have the limited number and total quantity written on the back.
> 
> So that'd suddenly have to read XXX/300 instead of the first lot with XXX/250?
> 
> What about all the early buyers, a watch recall and caseback change?


It may have finally been slated as a run of 300 and someone accidentally wrote an earlier plan of 250 on the press release. And they're just laser-engraved, so only cases already engraved __/250 would need to be scrapped and any upcoming would be easy to adjust prior to engraving.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Chrono Brewer said:


> It may have finally been slated as a run of 300 and someone accidentally wrote an earlier plan of 250 on the press release.


Ok yeah, I'm not familiar with this particular release and the dates and availability.


----------



## bibbibart

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Ok yeah, I'm not familiar with this particular release and the dates and availability.


It will be available only in September. Plenty of time to produce the casebacks.


----------



## Plus 9Time

Chrono Brewer said:


> It may have finally been slated as a run of 300 and someone accidentally wrote an earlier plan of 250 on the press release.


This is the most likely answer. The photos of the pre-production watch on the GS9 site show the quantity of 300, so seem to have just been a mix up on the initial announcement. I do not think there would have been any case backs with a quantity of 250 ever produced.


----------



## dnodelman

Pretty sad to see those gold stars coming out crooked. Very unlike GS, more like Seiko.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Plus 9Time said:


> This is the most likely answer. The photos of the pre-production watch on the GS9 site show the quantity of 300, so seem to have just been a mix up on the initial announcement. I do not think there would have been any case backs with a quantity of 250 ever produced.


I was mostly kidding


----------



## quasitime

dnodelman said:


> Pretty sad to see those gold stars coming out crooked. Very unlike GS, more like Seiko.


So are we thinking those stars are "hand" applied? Honest question. 

Either way, more fuel for my watch ocd demon. I would probably burn two years sending it back and forth to GS trying to get them to make it right, all the while something else happens to it at the repair facility.


----------



## dnodelman

quasitime said:


> So are we thinking those stars are "hand" applied? Honest question.
> 
> Either way, more fuel for my watch ocd demon. I would probably burn two years sending it back and forth to GS trying to get them to make it right, all the while something else happens to it at the repair facility.


My guess is no. Seiko's and GS are starting to feel more mass produced.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

quasitime said:


> So are we thinking those stars are "hand" applied? Honest question.





dnodelman said:


> My guess is no. Seiko's and GS are starting to feel more mass produced.


Everything I've seen of GS dials being produced has all applied items by hand. However, indices have two mounting points aligned by machine. No way for them to be rotated/crooked. Judging by its size, I'd bet that gold star on HAQ is a rare case of a single mounting point on an applied piece and someone forgot to verify it hadn't rotated. But you would think someone would catch it before it shipped out.


----------



## hkpm

Chrono Brewer said:


> Everything I've seen of GS dials being produced has all applied items by hand. However, indices have two mounting points aligned by machine. No way for them to be rotated/crooked. Judging by its size, I'd bet that gold star on HAQ is a rare case of a single mounting point on an applied piece and someone forgot to verify it hadn't rotated. But you would think someone would catch it before it shipped out.


Apart from the star being rotated, the star itself is also not directly above 6 o'clock, ie. moved left/right. 
And I concur that the watch should not have left the facility in the first place. 

BTW, If you are unfortunate enough to receive a watch with such problem, would you return it for a refund or return it for a repair?


----------



## NightScar

The SLGH017 "Night Birch" brings a whole new dimension to the Evolution 9 collection. It features a high-intensity titanium case and bracelet, cutting the watch's weight by more than one-third when compared to a stainless steel watch. The dark grey dial is inspired by a birch forest at night, with moonlight illuminating the edges of the trees, lending the watch a lot of depth and richness. And the Hi-Beat Caliber 9SA5 is on the cutting-edge of Grand Seiko movement technology, providing outstanding accuracy and reliability for the long-haul.

Arriving in August, the SLGH017 is now a part of the core Evolution 9 collection.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

hkpm said:


> BTW, If you are unfortunate enough to receive a watch with such problem, would you return it for a refund or return it for a repair?


We'll find out soon. Expect to hear from my AD any day now.


----------



## Toshk

NightScar said:


> The SLGH017 "Night Birch" brings a whole new dimension to the Evolution 9 collection. It features a high-intensity titanium case and bracelet, cutting the watch's weight by more than one-third when compared to a stainless steel watch. The dark grey dial is inspired by a birch forest at night, with moonlight illuminating the edges of the trees, lending the watch a lot of depth and richness. And the Hi-Beat Caliber 9SA5 is on the cutting-edge of Grand Seiko movement technology, providing outstanding accuracy and reliability for the long-haul.
> 
> Arriving in August, the SLGH017 is now a part of the core Evolution 9 collection.
> 
> View attachment 16743340
> 
> View attachment 16743341


Hoping for a Spring Drive Ti model with same dial


----------



## gelatomancer

Chrono Brewer said:


> We'll find out soon. Expect to hear from my AD any day now.


There's been a heck of a delay with getting these to US retailers. I haven't seen any hit any of the American ADs yet.


----------



## Gebbeth

NightScar said:


> The SLGH017 "Night Birch" brings a whole new dimension to the Evolution 9 collection. It features a high-intensity titanium case and bracelet, cutting the watch's weight by more than one-third when compared to a stainless steel watch. The dark grey dial is inspired by a birch forest at night, with moonlight illuminating the edges of the trees, lending the watch a lot of depth and richness. And the Hi-Beat Caliber 9SA5 is on the cutting-edge of Grand Seiko movement technology, providing outstanding accuracy and reliability for the long-haul.
> 
> Arriving in August, the SLGH017 is now a part of the core Evolution 9 collection.
> 
> View attachment 16743340
> 
> View attachment 16743341


My one issue with this watch is that I get SLGA015 vibes except with a vertical orientation.


----------



## CydeWeys

gelatomancer said:


> There's been a heck of a delay with getting these to US retailers. I haven't seen any hit any of the American ADs yet.


Yeah, I was really expecting to get the call to pick mine up at the midtown GS boutique ... yet, nothing so far. Seems delayed for sure.


----------



## ts298

hkpm said:


> Apart from the star being rotated, the star itself is also not directly above 6 o'clock, ie. moved left/right. And I concur that the watch should not have left the facility in the first place. BTW, If you are unfortunate enough to receive a watch with such problem, would you return it for a refund or return it for a repair?


 I would not accept having a brand-new $x,000 item repaired. It has to be refunded or replaced with a properly-made copy.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

First video footage I've come across for the Night Birch. Much more tempting to me than the OG White Birch -- was too silver for me.









Quick Review | Grand Seiko Night Birch


More than just another arboreal, birch tree-inspired dial, the new Night Birch from Grand Seiko features a titanium case, expanding the metallurgic range of ...




youtube.com


----------



## dnodelman

Chrono Brewer said:


> Everything I've seen of GS dials being produced has all applied items by hand. However, indices have two mounting points aligned by machine. No way for them to be rotated/crooked. Judging by its size, I'd bet that gold star on HAQ is a rare case of a single mounting point on an applied piece and someone forgot to verify it hadn't rotated. But you would think someone would catch it before it shipped out.
> 
> View attachment 16743020
> 
> View attachment 16743030


Odd they wouldn't do a 3 piece mount for this. Could have been quite simple.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

dnodelman said:


> Odd they wouldn't do a 3 piece mount for this. Could have been quite simple.


Looks too small for more pins to me. Either way, it should have been aligned more carefully before locking it down. Chris at Little Treasury used my SLGA007 for his video before shipping it to me. Maybe he'll showcase this piece as well and I'll get inspect closely before even receiving it. I'd hate to request it be sent directly to GS before I even have it but misalignment would annoy me and the wife who shares my watch collection.


----------



## dnodelman

Chrono Brewer said:


> Looks too small for more pins to me. Either way, it should have been aligned more carefully before locking it down. Chris at Little Treasury used my SLGA007 for his video before shipping it to me. Maybe he'll showcase this piece as well and I'll get inspect closely before even receiving it. I'd hate to request it be sent directly to GS before I even have it but misalignment would annoy me and the wife who shares my watch collection.


Fair enough.. Hope it gets resolved.


----------



## staplebox

hkpm said:


> BTW, If you are unfortunate enough to receive a watch with such problem, would you return it for a refund or return it for a repair?


I'd probably keep it if I otherwise like the watch. Such a flaw from Grand Seiko seems unique. Their dials are hand finished and their standards are high.


----------



## CydeWeys

I'm starting to wonder if the delay on the US watches is because they learned about the star QC issues after the overseas watches made it into customers' hands first, and are now holding these back to resolve the star alignment issue prior to delivering them to any remaining customers who haven't yet received them?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

CydeWeys said:


> I'm starting to wonder if the delay on the US watches is because they learned about the star QC issues after the overseas watches made it into customers' hands first, and are now holding these back to resolve the star alignment issue prior to delivering them to any remaining customers who haven't yet received them?


Plausible.


----------



## CydeWeys

If that does end up being the reason, I'd rather get the watch a little bit later rather than having to deal with a repair.


----------



## bibbibart

Colleagues, relax, your stars will be the 5-grade stars. Don’t worry.


----------



## staplebox

My AD just called and said the 017 is in. Should arrive early next week.


----------



## CydeWeys

staplebox said:


> My AD just called and said the 017 is in. Should arrive early next week.


Mine arrived today, is ready to pick up asap!


----------



## gelatomancer

Got mine earlier. It's a looker, for sure.


----------



## vlpix

I also got mine today by post. I did not want to go and pick-it up. Number 358










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CydeWeys




----------



## Peter_030

Numerous worthwhile images of the Grand Seiko SBGP017 in this topic (German-language watch forum):








Neue Uhr: Grand Seiko SBGP017 Quarz LE


Edelstahl Doppelt gewölbtes Saphirglas Beschichtung zur Entspiegelung auf der Innenseite Durchmesser 40.0mm Länge 46.2mm Höhe 10.7mm Band 19mm Movement 9F85 Quarz ±5 s/Jahr Kalendergekoppelte Funktion zur Zeitunterschiedskorrektur 10 bar Wasserdichtigkeit LIMITED EDITION (2000pc.) auf dem...




uhrforum.de





Mostly well-known promotional images in the beginning but quite a number of actual owner-supplied images near the end.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

CydeWeys said:


> View attachment 16753713


That looks excellent. Have they ever heat-blued the applied GS logo before? That's her favorite part of the Santos Medium we share and I'm hoping she'll enjoy that pop of blue on this piece as well. She won't care as much about the blued screws but they'll make me smile.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Another subtle feature I just noticed: my SLGA007 has a sharp-cornered frame around the date window, now slightly rounded corners. Also different typeface on the date -- had assumed they would be the same as they both came from the Shinshu studio. Probably longstanding features of Series 9 and 44GS cases but I hadn't caught it before.


----------



## Gebbeth

CydeWeys said:


> View attachment 16753713


Stupid question. Are these sold out?


----------



## CydeWeys

Gebbeth said:


> Stupid question. Are these sold out?


I don't know. It's _possible_ that you might find them in stock somewhere. ADs only just got them, and maybe not every AD has presold their entire allocation. But they're sold out on the online boutique and at all the boutiques in my city.


----------



## ArcticCoastie

Picked up #1450 today. Fitting in nicely with its rare brethren.







.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

What are we calling this SGP017? GS says, "It has the texture of the sea of clouds that form around the mountains on some mornings in the Shinshu region where this and all Grand Seiko quartz watches are made."

"Sea of Clouds"? "Mountain Clouds"?

I vote simply "Cloud" patterned after the fan-named "Snowflake".









Poll: What are you calling SBGP017?


Fans named SBGA211 the "Snowflake". Now we have SBGP017 without an official name. What do you want to call it? GS says, "It has the texture of the sea of clouds that form around the mountains on some mornings in the Shinshu region where this and all Grand Seiko quartz watches are made."




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## ieatfood

Chrono Brewer said:


> That looks excellent. Have they ever heat-blued the applied GS logo before? That's her favorite part of the Santos Medium we share and I'm hoping she'll enjoy that pop of blue on this piece as well. She won't care as much about the blued screws but they'll make me smile.


The SBGJ255, released earlier this year, also has the blue GS logo. One of my favorite features of that watch.


----------



## RetroEffect

In case anyone's been looking for the SBGW289 Hodinkee just got in a shipment of them with 12 available as of this post.

https://shop.hodinkee.com/collectio...44gs-55th-anniversary-limited-edition-sbgw289


----------



## shibaman

petay993 said:


> Ordered earlier and snagged the last one at the UK GS Boutique, phew.
> 
> Will make a great companion for my Shunbun!


I will get my sbgp017 this week. I alsp have the sbga413. Are the dials the same only different colors?
Thanks


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

RetroEffect said:


> In case anyone's been looking for the SBGW289 Hodinkee just got in a shipment of them with 12 available as of this post.
> 
> https://shop.hodinkee.com/collectio...44gs-55th-anniversary-limited-edition-sbgw289


These seems to be easier to get than anticipated, I bought one 2 days ago at the Siam Paragon Watch Fair in Bangkok for 5100 US$, they have some great discounts right now (about 18% off).

How do you know that hodinkee has 12 of them? I cannot seem to find any quantities.

EDIT: Ok, I played around with the shopping cart, I can add 12 pieces and not more than that


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Morning rain here in Bangkok:


----------



## Chrono Brewer

shibaman said:


> I will get my sbgp017 this week. I alsp have the sbga413. Are the dials the same only different colors?
> Thanks


Correct. It’s the Lion’s Mane dial and has been released in various colors. I believe the first was SBGA397 in 2018 but assume it got that name when used to depict a lion’s mane on SBGA403 in 2019.


----------



## bibbibart

New Isetan Shinjuku LE of mere 40 pieces. Stunning in person. SBGM251.


----------



## drhr

RetroEffect said:


> In case anyone's been looking for the SBGW289 Hodinkee just got in a shipment of them with 12 available as of this post.
> 
> https://shop.hodinkee.com/collectio...44gs-55th-anniversary-limited-edition-sbgw289


Biased here as I own a few GS watches but gotta say that this one far and away is my fav, at least for right now, GS done good imo . . .


----------



## SKYWATCH007

drhr said:


> Biased here as I own a few GS watches but gotta say that this one far and away is my fav, at least for right now, GS done good imo . . .
> 
> View attachment 16759315


Do you by any chance also have the new 017 Sky blue dial? Which one do you prefer?


----------



## drhr

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Do you by any chance also have the new 017 Sky blue dial? Which one do you prefer?


Sorry I do not . . . while it is a beauty for sure, I prefer the SBGH295.


----------



## bibbibart

Colleagues, just picked it up today. So happy. Haven’t been to Tokyo for 11 years. Personnel at WAKO is just exquisite. Despite the mega rainy day in Tokyo-Ginza. Cheers to Kawai-san from WAKO for fantatic service and command of English!


----------



## CarbonPrevails

bibbibart said:


> Colleagues, just picked it up today. So happy. Haven’t been to Tokyo for 11 years. Personnel at WAKO is just exquisite. Despite the mega rainy day in Tokyo-Ginza. Cheers to Kawai-san from WAKO for fantatic service and command of English!


Wow. I’m so jealous. That’s an amazing watch and just so damn cool. Looks great on your wrist and it’s just so much fun. I really hope they do a version of this for NYC at some point.


----------



## bibbibart

CarbonPrevails said:


> Wow. I’m so jealous. That’s an amazing watch and just so damn cool. Looks great on your wrist and it’s just so much fun. I really hope they do a version of this for NYC at some point.


Thank you, it is so eye-catching and fresh in person. 

I’d also love a San Francisco version with Lombard Street on it.


----------



## TravisMorgan

drhr said:


> Biased here as I own a few GS watches but gotta say that this one far and away is my fav, at least for right now, GS done good imo . . .
> 
> View attachment 16759315


I absolutely love that watch...wish I was a richer man...picturing that with a black alligator leather strap too...congrats


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

bibbibart said:


> Colleagues, just picked it up today. So happy. Haven’t been to Tokyo for 11 years. Personnel at WAKO is just exquisite. Despite the mega rainy day in Tokyo-Ginza. Cheers to Kawai-san from WAKO for fantatic service and command of English!


Congrats, how did you manage to get one, did you reserve this in advance somehow? Seeing how the price for these has skyrocketed I would've imagined all of them being long gone already.


----------



## Cowboy Bebop

CarbonPrevails said:


> Wow. I’m so jealous. That’s an amazing watch and just so damn cool. Looks great on your wrist and it’s just so much fun. I really hope they do a version of this for NYC at some point.


You've discovered the Tiffany of Grand Seiko! Enjoy.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


----------



## drhr

TravisMorgan said:


> I absolutely love that watch...wish I was a richer man...picturing that with a black alligator leather strap too...congrats


Thanks Travis! Yes, whether strap or bracelet I agree on the sentiment . . . .


----------



## TravisMorgan

drhr said:


> Thanks Travis! Yes, whether strap or bracelet I agree on the sentiment . . . .


I would wear that with a Tuxedo...the word Class is in that watch description


----------



## Whiskey&Watch

bibbibart said:


> Colleagues, just picked it up today. So happy. Haven’t been to Tokyo for 11 years. Personnel at WAKO is just exquisite. Despite the mega rainy day in Tokyo-Ginza. Cheers to Kawai-san from WAKO for fantatic service and command of English!


Absolutely gorgeous! Congratulations on a great GS @bibbibart! The Ginza street map is very subtle, giving it a perfect tiffany look! 

I was at Wako this year Feb. Service from these guys is always top-notch! BTW, did you visit the museum at level 2 of Wako?


----------



## bibbibart

Whiskey&Watch said:


> Absolutely gorgeous! Congratulations on a great GS @bibbibart! The Ginza street map is very subtle, giving it a perfect tiffany look!
> 
> I was at Wako this year Feb. Service from these guys is always top-notch! BTW, did you visit the museum at level 2 of Wako?


Thanks for your kind words. I had a chance to visit 2nd floor and talk to a late middle-aged SA who seemed to have had some international sales representative role years ago. Among others visiting Germany as the GS representative. 

We had an interesting discussion regarding, among others, the issue of lack of taper on Evolution 9 bracelets. He seemed startled that this is an issue for many. So the thoughts of many of us seemingly haven’t trickled to top management yet. 

We also discussed at length the recent US releases. Or more so it was me showing this gentleman what will be released in Sep. It was big news to him, he liked the new Peacock. 

Finally, we went through all the special Wako models from the past. 

I couldn’t visit the top floor with Seiko clock due to pouring rain conditions. 

For me, as a GS geek, this was memorable time spent at (Grand) Seiko’s roots.


----------



## staplebox

bibbibart said:


> We had an interesting discussion regarding, among others, the issue of lack of taper on Evolution 9 bracelets. He seemed startled that this is an issue for many. So the thoughts of many of us seemingly haven’t trickled to top management yet.


I with the GS guy, I have no problem with that bracelet taper and am surprised anyone else does.


----------



## Gebbeth

staplebox said:


> I with the GS guy, I have no problem with that bracelet taper and am surprised anyone else does.


Taper is a matter of taste. I think GS was looking for a more bold wrist presence and so the smaller taper. It could also be a production cost issue (i.e., less taper may mean less individual bracelet links of varying sizes to make...just guessing).

My only beef with the bracelets is that that the clasp and on-the-fly adjustment should be a primary focus. These are really lacking features found on other high-end watch bracelets.


----------



## One-Seventy

bibbibart said:


> We had an interesting discussion regarding, among others, the issue of lack of taper on Evolution 9 bracelets. He seemed startled that this is an issue for many. So the thoughts of many of us seemingly haven’t trickled to top management yet.


It's no wonder he was startled, because it does taper - from 22 to 20 ; ). Sure, its not a vintage-style taper, but it's tapered. Lots of watches with 22mm lugs do this too. 

Am am sure that GS management is nodding sagely at the feedback from people who've read on the Internet that the Evo9 bracelet does not taper, writing it down dutifully, and then discreetly chucking it in the bin


----------



## staplebox

Gebbeth said:


> Taper is a matter of taste. I think GS was looking for a more bold wrist presence and so the smaller taper. It could also be a production cost issue (i.e., less taper may mean less individual bracelet links of varying sizes to make...just guessing).
> 
> My only beef with the bracelets is that that the clasp and on-the-fly adjustment should be a primary focus. These are really lacking features found on other high-end watch bracelets.


GS has concrete design principles associated with the Evo 9 series (and other series). One of them for Evo 9 is that the bracelet has to be 50-55% the diameter of the watch to disburse the weight. So, they start at 22mm (55%) and taper down to 20mm (50%). They are just following their own design rule book. 

I have never gotten the impression that GS does things willy-nilly. That is one of the things I love about their watches, excruciating detail. In the case of micro adjust, I am sure they know it exists and that others use it, but they have intentionally decided not to implement it. Why? I don't know, but I am sure they have their reason.


----------



## chas58

bibbibart said:


> We had an interesting discussion regarding, among others, the issue of lack of taper on Evolution 9 bracelets. He seemed startled that this is an issue for many. So the thoughts of many of us seemingly haven’t trickled to top management yet.


Could be a showstopper for me, I can't tell because my AD doesn't have one in stock. Still, the last Seiko I tried on with a 22 to 20 mm taper was just too bulky for me. Of course if it is Ti, weight is not a problem.  

currently I'm enjoying my watches with a 20 to 16mm taper (or even a 19 to 14mm taper). 


staplebox said:


> GS has concrete design principles associated with the Evo 9 series (and other series). One of them for Evo 9 is that the bracelet has to be 50-55% the diameter of the watch to disburse the weight. So, they start at 22mm (55%) and taper down to 20mm (50%). They are just following their own design rule book.


Interesting.
I have a GS that tapers from 21 to 18mm (62GS) and one that tapers from 19 to 18mm.


----------



## chas58

Gebbeth said:


> Stupid question. Are these sold out?


Long ago, as far as I can tell...


----------



## Tanker G1

My SBGP017 came in today. Based on the early pics I thought it would be the same blue as my SBGA435 but it's definitely more subtle.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Tanker G1 said:


> My SBGP017 came in today. Based on the early pics I thought it would be the same blue as my SBGA435 but it's definitely more subtle.
> View attachment 16763430


Glad to see side-by-side. I also assumed they would look identical.


----------



## Linden_way

Just picked up my SBGP 017


----------



## JaySol

ArcticCoastie said:


> Picked up #1450 today. Fitting in nicely with its rare brethren.
> View attachment 16754295
> .


Beautiful watches, that whirlpool one on the right is amazing.


----------



## fasteddiev0.0

Hi guys, in case anyone was wondering the difference in size between the 40mm vs 36.5mm 44GS case. Here’s my SBGH243 next to my wife’s SBGW289. It was surprisingly much more compact feeling than my 37mm SBGW235.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fallingtitan

can you put the sbgw289 next to the sbgw235?


----------



## fasteddiev0.0

fallingtitan said:


> can you put the sbgw289 next to the sbgw235?


Here you go, it appears as though the SBGW289 has the smaller dial. Bought it for my wife but still works on my 6.75 inch wrist.


----------



## ArcticCoastie

JaySol said:


> Beautiful watches, that whirlpool one on the right is amazing.


Thanks  The SBGH267 is my favorite in the collection. Owned it since new.


----------



## Tpp3975

New SBGP017 owners, apparently some of the gold stars were applied slightly crooked. Be sure to check yours. Mine is affected. You can see it’s slightly turned clockwise. Whether this is bothersome may be personal but I’m not really pleased at this for a 4k watch. Any opinions?


----------



## bibbibart

It has been discussed so far. You’d probably need to claim a repair under guarantee.


----------



## bibbibart

Just a provocative color comparison.


----------



## Tpp3975

bibbibart said:


> It has been discussed so far. You’d probably need to claim a repair under guarantee.


Maybe. It’s less than 2 weeks old. Really not interested in sending a new watch off for warranty but I guess we will see what they say.


----------



## Tpp3975

hkpm said:


> For those who are waiting for the SBGP017, please check carefully the alignment of the golden star when you receive the watch.
> At least 2 owners posted photos of theirs in a chinese forum showed this problem and returned the watches.


Ahh I see I’m late. I thought I saw this somewhere. Mine was deliver in the US 2 Weeks ago from the GS online boutique and my star is misaligned


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Tpp3975 said:


> New SBGP017 owners, apparently some of the gold stars were applied slightly crooked. Be sure to check yours. Mine is affected. You can see it’s slightly turned clockwise. Whether this is bothersome may be personal but I’m not really pleased at this for a 4k watch. Any opinions?


Sorry to hear it. Just wouldn't be worth the effort to send back in my mind. While I'm as perfectionist as they come, I would try to make peace with it by either

1) Ignoring it. After all, it's not a matter of whether there are imperfections but whether you can find them.

or

2) Letting it be a subtle reminder everything was constructed by hand -- an indicator of the artisanal rather than fully machine production.

We'll see when I receive mine tomorrow. Out of curiosity, what's the number out of 2000 on yours? I wonder if we can find they corrected some oversight after X were produced. Though more likely it was just random distribution.


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> Sorry to hear it. Just wouldn't be worth the effort to send back in my mind. While I'm as perfectionist as they come, I would try to make peace with it by either
> 
> 1) Ignoring it. After all, it's not a matter of whether there are imperfections but whether you can find them.
> 
> or
> 
> 2) Letting it be a subtle reminder everything was constructed by hand -- an indicator of the artisanal rather than fully machine production.
> 
> We'll see when I receive mine tomorrow. Out of curiosity, what's the number out of 2000 on yours? I wonder if we can find they corrected some oversight after X were produced. Though more likely it was just random distribution.


Number 1319. It’s good advice but for a brand new 4k watch it’s a bit of a bummer. Honestly the entire grand seiko ethos is perfection.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Tpp3975 said:


> Number 1319. It’s good advice but for a brand new 4k watch it’s a bit of a bummer. Honestly the entire grand seiko ethos is perfection.


Agreed, it should be flawless to our eyes because it was flawless to the even more scrutinizing artisans' eyes. I'm just too lazy to mail it back and would rather rationalize a way to accept it.


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> Agreed, it should be flawless to our eyes because it was flawless to the even more scrutinizing artisans' eyes. I'm just too lazy to mail it back and would rather rationalize a way to accept it.


I’m with you 100 percent particularly if it’s a warranty claim. My experience is it will come back worse.


----------



## hkpm

Tpp3975 said:


> I’m with you 100 percent particularly if it’s a warranty claim. My experience is it will come back worse.


Would GS USA be able to exchange a new one with you?


----------



## Tpp3975

hkpm said:


> Would GS USA be able to exchange a new one with you?


I hope so. I’m going to ask them. But the watch is sold out so it’s unlikely they have one laying around. I’ll report back.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Had this one sent to the UPS store so my wife wouldn't end up signing for the package with her own birthday present. Photos truly don't do it justice. Showed it to my four-year-old who immediately said, "It looks like clouds!" Neither of us prefer bracelets, so got a couple of Chevron single-pass straps from Crown and Buckle. Can I wait four months to give it to her?


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> Had this one sent to the UPS store so my wife wouldn't end up signing for the package with her own birthday present. Photos truly don't do it justice. Showed it to my four-year-old who immediately said, "It looks like clouds!" Neither of us prefer bracelets, so got a couple of Chevron single-pass straps from Crown and Buckle. Can I wait four months to give it to her?
> 
> View attachment 16769267
> 
> 
> View attachment 16769268
> 
> 
> View attachment 16769265
> 
> 
> View attachment 16769266


Looks great. How’s the star alignment?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Tpp3975 said:


> Looks great. How’s the star alignment?


To my naked eye it looks perfect, though I actually knew before handling -- Chris at Little Treasury used this one for his video and has better macro abilities than I do. It looks slightly off in this screenshot of his video until you realize the second hand is lateral of center on the 6 o'clock index; it's mostly just parallax with his camera being slightly off-center. Only by superimposing a squared reference to the edge of the index can I see the star is a couple degrees clockwise of perfect. Still well within reasonable tolerance.

That doesn't dismiss the legitimate frustration for others who found more rotation on theirs. An uncharacteristic oversight on Grand Seiko's part. Someone once pointed out on macro shots of the Snowflake that the underside of the second hand was unpolished -- until they realized it was the dial texture, reflected on the mirror underside of the second hand, reflected on the top of the hour hand, and then seen by the viewer.

GS are the height of perfectionism but they let this detail slip.


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> To my naked eye it looks perfect, though I actually knew before handling -- Chris at Little Treasury used this one for his video and has better macro abilities than I do. It looks slightly off in this screenshot of his video until you realize the second hand is lateral of center on the 6 o'clock index; it's mostly just parallax with his camera being slightly off-center. Only by superimposing a squared reference to the edge of the index can I see the star is a couple degrees clockwise of perfect. Still well within reasonable tolerance.
> 
> That doesn't dismiss the legitimate frustration for others who found more rotation on theirs. An uncharacteristic oversight on Grand Seiko's part. Someone once pointed out on macro shots of the Snowflake that the underside of the second hand was unpolished -- until they realized it was the dial texture, reflected on the mirror underside of the second hand, reflected on the top of the hour hand, and then seen by the viewer.
> 
> GS are the height of perfectionism but they let this detail slip.
> 
> View attachment 16769406


Interesting. Mine is rotated in the same way. Maybe a couple of degrees more than your. Waiting to hear from GS on mine. Enjoy the watch.


----------



## Cowboy Bebop

My star appears perfectly aligned not sure if they have a some degree of tolerance for acceptance.









Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


----------



## shibaman

Chrono Brewer said:


> Had this one sent to the UPS store so my wife wouldn't end up signing for the package with her own birthday present. Photos truly don't do it justice. Showed it to my four-year-old who immediately said, "It looks like clouds!" Neither of us prefer bracelets, so got a couple of Chevron single-pass straps from Crown and Buckle. Can I wait four months to give it to her?
> 
> View attachment 16769267
> 
> 
> View attachment 16769268
> 
> 
> View attachment 16769265
> 
> 
> View attachment 16769266


I have that blue strap on my seiko monster little feet. Matches the dial perfectly. I forget what brand that is?


----------



## shibaman

finally got my watch. #1148. Thanks Steve at Little Treasures Jewlers.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

shibaman said:


> I have that blue strap on my seiko monster little feet. Matches the dial perfectly. I forget what brand that is?


I got mine from Crown and Buckle.


----------



## Tpp3975

shibaman said:


> View attachment 16770184
> 
> 
> finally got my watch. #1148. Thanks Steve at Little Treasures Jewlers.


Might be the angle but yours looks a little off too. Tilted to the right.


----------



## staplebox

Last night I was struggling to explain to my girlfriend how watch people can be a bit _particular_ about watch details. Now I just have to show her these star alignment posts and she'll know what I meant. 

If any of you can see that star off 2 degrees with your naked eye let me know, I'll make an eye appointment. I had to take a 2X pic and then zoom in to see it.


----------



## NightScar

*Spring Drive Manual SBGY009*
Grand Seiko Heritage Collection

USD $8,100
LIMITED EDITION OF 1,500
Ships by August 15th 2022











*44GS inspired by the full moon over the Shinshu mountains*

2022 marks the 55th anniversary of the 44GS, which in 1967 introduced the unique design language that would guide the brand's timepieces for decades to come—the Grand Seiko Style. In commemoration, Grand Seiko presents the 44GS 55th Anniversary Limited Edition reference SBGY009 featuring a dial inspired by _tsuki tenshin,_ the moment when the full moon is at its highest point in the sky.

With SBGY009, the modern 44GS design is made slimmer due to the thin manual wind Spring Drive 9R31 caliber. This movement employs a dual spring barrel that helps keep the movement compact and achieve a greater power reserve of 72 hours. It is beautifully decorated with exposed jewels, tempered screws, and diamond-cut sinks.

The stainless steel case measures 40mm and houses a dial with a dynamic sunray press pattern that catches the light at every angle, recreating the moon cast over the landscape at the highest point in the sky.

SBGY009 is a limited edition of 1,500.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

NightScar said:


> View attachment 16770561
> 
> 
> *44GS inspired by the full moon over the Shinshu mountains*
> 
> 2022 marks the 55th anniversary of the 44GS, which in 1967 introduced the unique design language that would guide the brand's timepieces for decades to come—the Grand Seiko Style. In commemoration, Grand Seiko presents the 44GS 55th Anniversary Limited Edition reference SBGY009 featuring a dial inspired by _tsuki tenshin,_ the moment when the full moon is at its highest point in the sky.
> 
> With SBGY009, the modern 44GS design is made slimmer due to the thin manual wind Spring Drive 9R31 caliber. This movement employs a dual spring barrel that helps keep the movement compact and achieve a greater power reserve of 72 hours. It is beautifully decorated with exposed jewels, tempered screws, and diamond-cut sinks.
> 
> The stainless steel case measures 40mm and houses a dial with a dynamic sunray press pattern that catches the light at every angle, recreating the moon cast over the landscape at the highest point in the sky.
> 
> SBGY009 is a limited edition of 1,500.
> 
> View attachment 16770563
> 
> View attachment 16770564
> 
> View attachment 16770579


Saw the email and you beat me by a moment. Glad to see more manual-wind Spring Drives hitting the scene, though this one doesn't necessarily speak to me. Daddy needs a GMT cheaper hobby.









44GS 55th Anniversary SBGY009 LE | GS9 Club | Grand Seiko


Celebrating the 55th anniversary of the 44GS, SBGY009 has a slimmer 44GS case and a dark blue dial inspired by the full moon over Shinshu.




grandseikogs9club.com


----------



## CydeWeys

NightScar said:


> View attachment 16770561
> 
> 
> *44GS inspired by the full moon over the Shinshu mountains*
> 
> 2022 marks the 55th anniversary of the 44GS, which in 1967 introduced the unique design language that would guide the brand's timepieces for decades to come—the Grand Seiko Style. In commemoration, Grand Seiko presents the 44GS 55th Anniversary Limited Edition reference SBGY009 featuring a dial inspired by _tsuki tenshin,_ the moment when the full moon is at its highest point in the sky.
> 
> With SBGY009, the modern 44GS design is made slimmer due to the thin manual wind Spring Drive 9R31 caliber. This movement employs a dual spring barrel that helps keep the movement compact and achieve a greater power reserve of 72 hours. It is beautifully decorated with exposed jewels, tempered screws, and diamond-cut sinks.
> 
> The stainless steel case measures 40mm and houses a dial with a dynamic sunray press pattern that catches the light at every angle, recreating the moon cast over the landscape at the highest point in the sky.
> 
> SBGY009 is a limited edition of 1,500.
> 
> View attachment 16770563
> 
> View attachment 16770564
> 
> View attachment 16770579


Doesn't look like it's for sale on the online boutique yet? Anyway, as nice as this looks, I think I gotta bow out. Bought too many GS LEs recently. And it's tempting, seeing how successful SBGY003 has been, but you just can't predict what blows up.


----------



## NightScar

CydeWeys said:


> Doesn't look like it's for sale on the online boutique yet? Anyway, as nice as this looks, I think I gotta bow out. Bought too many GS LEs recently. And it's tempting, seeing how successful SBGY003 has been, but you just can't predict what blows up.


you can pre-order now and will ship 8/15: Grand Seiko Spring Drive Manual 44GS Limited Edition SBGY009


----------



## Tpp3975

NightScar said:


> you can pre-order now and will ship 8/15: Grand Seiko Spring Drive Manual 44GS Limited Edition SBGY009


Too rich for me. 1500 at 8,000 a pop is like a bizillion dollars. Beautiful watch but not 8000 bucks nice.


----------



## klackakon

Really hoping for a 6 o'clock date on a spring drive eventually, sort of like the Omega Devilles. 

Also wish they'd put this dial in the sbgy003 case but that would crater the sbgy007.


----------



## shibaman

staplebox said:


> Last night I was struggling to explain to my girlfriend how watch people can be a bit _particular_ about watch details. Now I just have to show her these star alignment posts and she'll know what I meant.
> 
> If any of you can see that star off 2 degrees with your naked eye let me know, I'll make an eye appointment. I had to take a 2X pic and then zoom in to see it.
> View attachment 16770534


Think close enough


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Embrace the wabi-sabi.


----------



## buggravy

I'm not bothered by the number of GS Limited Editions. I enjoy seeing and getting excited about the new releases. But it does beg the question - what kind of numbers are the non L.E. pieces produced in? With the number of SKUs that they have it's hard to imagine that the regular production pieces are being made in much larger numbers than 1,500 - 2,000 per SKU.


----------



## NightScar

buggravy said:


> I'm not bothered by the number of GS Limited Editions. I enjoy seeing and getting excited about the new releases. But it does beg the question - what kind of numbers are the non L.E. pieces produced in? With the number of SKUs that they have it's hard to imagine that the regular production pieces are being made in much larger numbers than 1,500 - 2,000 per SKU.



how many watches does GS produce annually these days?

i think a few years ago it was stated somewhere that it was 35,000 a year but with its rise in popularity, its probably higher now?


----------



## CydeWeys

buggravy said:


> I'm not bothered by the number of GS Limited Editions. I enjoy seeing and getting excited about the new releases. But it does beg the question - what kind of numbers are the non L.E. pieces produced in? With the number of SKUs that they have it's hard to imagine that the regular production pieces are being made in much larger numbers than 1,500 - 2,000 per SKU.


Honestly, I think a fair number of the regular production pieces never hit some of the LE quantities. For every snowflake/shunbun that has huge quantities made, there's plenty of other models that you flat out just don't ever hear anyone talking about.


----------



## Whiskey&Watch

bibbibart said:


> Thanks for your kind words. I had a chance to visit 2nd floor and talk to a late middle-aged SA who seemed to have had some international sales representative role years ago. Among others visiting Germany as the GS representative.
> 
> We had an interesting discussion regarding, among others, the issue of lack of taper on Evolution 9 bracelets. He seemed startled that this is an issue for many. So the thoughts of many of us seemingly haven’t trickled to top management yet.
> 
> We also discussed at length the recent US releases. Or more so it was me showing this gentleman what will be released in Sep. It was big news to him, he liked the new Peacock.
> 
> Finally, we went through all the special Wako models from the past.
> 
> I couldn’t visit the top floor with Seiko clock due to pouring rain conditions.
> 
> For me, as a GS geek, this was memorable time spent at (Grand) Seiko’s roots.


That's lovely to hear @bibbibart. Seems like you had a great time chatting! I had a long chat with the main sales guy of the watch department, Mr Issei Suzuki. Interestingly he was aware of the bracelet and its fitting! Most of the Japanese buyers of GS prefer the minimalist profiles of the GS clasps, which coherently go and match with bracelet tapering and don't stand on much of their own! However, that's not a valid excuse for not having a micro-adjustable clasp like the IWC one!


----------



## fasteddiev0.0

Nice to see GS putting out thinner cases… 10.5mm with a box shaped sapphire crystal, that’s great. Would’ve preferred an “elegance” cushion case but I’m sure we’ll get one of those soon enough. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Xhantos

buggravy said:


> I'm not bothered by the number of GS Limited Editions. I enjoy seeing and getting excited about the new releases. But it does beg the question - what kind of numbers are the non L.E. pieces produced in? With the number of SKUs that they have it's hard to imagine that the regular production pieces are being made in much larger numbers than 1,500 - 2,000 per SKU.


In my understanding, a LE is a promise that the company will not make the same (or a very similar) model (ideally) ever. So a regular production model may be produced only 1000 per year but for as many years as they are in demand. I know that 'LE' is mostly a marketing gimmick these days, but I do like having a unique LE number on caseback rather than a mere serial number


----------



## aldi

Because the SBGY009 uses the 0AG0 case code as per below, I should be able to use the bracelet from SBG017 right? There is a difference of 0.2mm in case thickness, but both case diameter, lug to lug and lug width are identitical






Plus9Time Grand Seiko Database — Plus9Time







www.plus9time.com


----------



## Astro68

SBGY009 may be my perfect GS - 
1) Hand wind Spring drive movement with power meter (72 Hr) on reverse - CHECK
2) SS - CHECK
3) No date - CHECK
4) Thin at just just 11.5 mm - CHECK
5) 40 mm or less - CHECK
6) 44 GS case with box style crystal - CHECK
7) Rectangular multifaceted indices with double index at 12 o'clock - CHECK
8) Strap rather than bracelet - CHECK (Sorry but I'm just not a fan of GS bracelets except the beads of rice on my SBGT241)
9) Lug holes for easy strap changes - CHECK
10) Dark Blue subtle textured dial with gold second hand and GS. Also with minimal text on dial - GRAVY

Pre-ordered!

Anyone else?


----------



## oggygoggy

NightScar said:


> *Spring Drive Manual SBGY009*
> Grand Seiko Heritage Collection
> 
> USD $8,100
> LIMITED EDITION OF 1,500
> Ships by August 15th 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *44GS inspired by the full moon over the Shinshu mountains*
> 
> 2022 marks the 55th anniversary of the 44GS, which in 1967 introduced the unique design language that would guide the brand's timepieces for decades to come—the Grand Seiko Style. In commemoration, Grand Seiko presents the 44GS 55th Anniversary Limited Edition reference SBGY009 featuring a dial inspired by _tsuki tenshin,_ the moment when the full moon is at its highest point in the sky.
> 
> With SBGY009, the modern 44GS design is made slimmer due to the thin manual wind Spring Drive 9R31 caliber. This movement employs a dual spring barrel that helps keep the movement compact and achieve a greater power reserve of 72 hours. It is beautifully decorated with exposed jewels, tempered screws, and diamond-cut sinks.
> 
> The stainless steel case measures 40mm and houses a dial with a dynamic sunray press pattern that catches the light at every angle, recreating the moon cast over the landscape at the highest point in the sky.
> 
> SBGY009 is a limited edition of 1,500.


They've done it again. The GS dials are just too cool. Also - and more than just a bonus - the power reserve is on the back.


----------



## Spytap

Oh maaaaaan. Gonna have to think long and hard about this one. Aside from a bracelet, it's everything I've been asking GS for.


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> However, my view is that a *true* GMT, with a *rotating* bezel, smokes all other GMT configurations and is the one-size-fits all solution that you’re looking for. All you do is set the 24hr hand to GMT, know the GMT offset for the zones you need to track (including daylight savings), and spin the bezel at will. No pulling out crowns, no hacking movements, it couldn’t be easier.


OK this is decidedly downmarket and also unidirectional automatic winding (I presume).

But Citizen’s just thrown their hat into the Traveller’s GMT ring with the Miyota 9075 movement.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/vd7g8l/_/ih8d9vl

It’s still speculation at this point because there’s only one watch with it (Bulova Wilton) but I can reasonable postulate:

1) (Being branded a Miyota movement, as opposed to a Citizen movement) it will be made available to other brands shortly similar to the 9015.

2) (Having 29.2mm diameter and 3.9mm thin) (NH35s are 27.4mm and 5.32mm for comparison) someone is going to be able to fit this into a 40mm diameter watch that is no higher than 13mm - with rotating bezel, even beating out the Zulu Time.


----------



## Domo

Astro68 said:


> SBGY009 may be my perfect GS -
> 1) Hand wind Spring drive movement with power meter (72 Hr) on reverse - CHECK
> 2) SS - CHECK
> 3) No date - CHECK
> 4) Thin at just just 11.5 mm - CHECK
> 5) 40 mm or less - CHECK
> 6) 44 GS case with box style crystal - CHECK
> 7) Rectangular multifaceted indices with double index at 12 o'clock - CHECK
> 8) Strap rather than bracelet - CHECK (Sorry but I'm just not a fan of GS bracelets except the beads of rice on my SBGT241)
> 9) Lug holes for easy strap changes - CHECK
> 10) Dark Blue subtle textured dial with gold second hand and GS. Also with minimal text on dial - GRAVY
> 
> Pre-ordered!
> 
> Anyone else?


I'd prefer a smooth sunburst instead of the pattern, but HFS that's a great looking watch


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> OK this is decidedly downmarket and also unidirectional automatic winding (I presume).
> 
> But Citizen’s just thrown their hat into the Traveller’s GMT ring with the Miyota 9075 movement.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/vd7g8l/_/ih8d9vl
> 
> It’s still speculation at this point because there’s only one watch with it (Bulova Wilton) but I can reasonable postulate:
> 
> 1) (Being branded a Miyota movement, as opposed to a Citizen movement) it will be made available to other brands shortly similar to the 9015.
> 
> 2) (Having 29.2mm diameter and 3.9mm thin) (NH35s are 27.4mm and 5.32mm for comparison) someone is going to be able to fit this into a 40mm diameter watch that is no higher than 13mm - with rotating bezel, even beating out the Zulu Time.


Interesting. This new Miyota, and Seiko’s 4R34 (caller GMT), are certainly going to drive movement in the lower price point GMT segment…


----------



## super_purple

SBGY015, a 30 piece China limited edition launching in September. MSRP slightly north of USD 10,000. No additional information available on Google search as of now.


----------



## Loevhagen

What is it with so called "China"-editions and the color green?


----------



## BarracksSi

Loevhagen said:


> What is it with so called "China"-editions and the color green?


China also associates the color green with wealth. Green can symbolize growth and health in a biological sense. But the association with green can also suggest luck in growing personal wealth.

Maybe? ^^^


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Is this the first Mt. Iwate dial with Spring Drive ever we’ve seen? I thought those were each exclusive to the Shizukuishi and Shinshu studios, respectively. If so this looks like a collaboration.


----------



## bibbibart

Pretty ugly, IMHO. But then the hope is that sth really impressive hides under SBGY011 & SBGY013.


----------



## matthew P

Did anyone post about this one ?



















Fantastic looking green colored dial IMO 


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## bibbibart

Yep, it was part of the 4-piece recent US-only GS release. Nice take in an unlimited run.


----------



## bibbibart

Saw this one on one of the Asian sales portals. Advertised as SBGA475, 39mm.


----------



## chief-diversity-officer

Oh wow, looks like an actual baby snowflake?


----------



## Domo

bibbibart said:


> Saw this one on one of the Asian sales portals. Advertised as SBGA475, 39mm.





chief-diversity-officer said:


> Oh wow, looks like an actual baby snowflake?


Yeah definitely, that's the 39mm dial set and case, a la SBGA085


----------



## Domo

Chrono Brewer said:


> Is this the first Mt. Iwate dial with Spring Drive ever we’ve seen? I thought those were each exclusive to the Shizukuishi and Shinshu studios, respectively. If so this looks like a collaboration.


I don't think that's a Mt. Iwate dial, I'd say it's the style similar to the SBGN025


----------



## chucky75

Loevhagen said:


> What is it with so called "China"-editions and the color green?


I think it is a close resemblance to the jade stone colour, a Chinese traditional jewelry. A good jade pendant can be very very expensive.


----------



## bibbibart

bibbibart said:


> Saw this one on one of the Asian sales portals. Advertised as SBGA475, 39mm.


Turns out to be a 50 pieces limitation for one retailer in Osaka. Nice take on Snowflake. 


























Credits to Anthony Kable, our forum Colleague, widely known as #plus9time.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Dig that blue-tinged sapphire and PR without a wedge cut out of the dial. Still leaves me wondering 1) why not put 9RA2 in there and 2) why LE? That would fly off the shelves.


----------



## Plus 9Time

Domo said:


> I don't think that's a Mt. Iwate dial, I'd say it's the style similar to the SBGN025


Correct, this is not Mount Iwate as it is from Shinshu and not Shizukuishi . The dial pattern was first used on the SBGN017 in 2020 and was described as Tree Bark at that time. The same pattern has also used on the 2021 SBGN025 and the 2022 SBGE287 models.


----------



## Biggles3

Thailand GS just announced, limited to only 100 pieces.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Biggles3 said:


> Thailand GS just announced, limited to only 100 pieces.
> View attachment 16805715


Plus two more (driving now so can't post)


----------



## bibbibart

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Plus two more (driving now so can't post)


Drive faster, please (within speed limits)! It is very tempting to learn the other two!


----------



## snash7

bibbibart said:


> Drive faster, please (within speed limits)! It is very tempting to learn the other two!


----------



## snash7




----------



## snash7




----------



## snash7




----------



## snash7




----------



## GrandWatcher

Biggles3 said:


> Thailand GS just announced, limited to only 100 pieces.
> View attachment 16805715


Grand Seiko "Mountain Dew" SBGH303


----------



## Gebbeth

Okay….I think GS should put the brakes on “limited editions.” Too many to digest, and it can hurt brand reputation by (a) diluting what it means to be limited, and (b) detracting from their non-limited lineup, causing consumers to wait until the next limited model comes out.

I’m kinda of torn because I like GS as a brand, but I think even their current CEO said that if you try to make a watch for everyone, you may end up making a watch for no one.

I’d rather they concentrate on making refinements to their lineups (redesigned bracelets and clasps for example).


----------



## alde

These LEs are stunning.

Maybe GS is making a market study to see which design cues are more desirable? Haha.


----------



## bibbibart

snash7 said:


> View attachment 16805794


Thank you. This SBGY is particularly stunning. Tree Bark pattern brought from a quartz to this great SD with PR on the back. 

Are all of these LEs?


----------



## Domo

Biggles3 said:


> Thailand GS just announced, limited to only 100 pieces.
> View attachment 16805715


I like the <img> alternate text: "Watch Clock Grass Watch accessory Natural landscape" 
Very fitting


----------



## staplebox

Found a little promo video of these *Thai* LEs -


----------



## SISL

Those are lovely.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

staplebox said:


> Found a little promo video of these Taiwanese LEs -


Thai, not Taiwanese. I reserved the green one, quite nice imo


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Two new 44GS manual winders with sunray finish:

Mastershop models
no limited production
closed caseback
$5200 each
available September

















New Release: Grand Seiko SBGW291 And SGBW293 — 44GS Styling In A Most Wearable Size


✓ Grand Seiko releases two new 44GS-style watches ✓ SBGW291 and SBGW293 ✓ Thomas has a first look ✓ Read all about them here! ✓




www.fratellowatches.com












44GS SBGW291 and SBGW293 | GS9 Club | Grand Seiko


Grand Seiko presents two new references in the Heritage Collection sharing the same mid-size 44GS case: SBGW291 and SBGW293. Learn more here.




grandseikogs9club.com


----------



## todoroki

I think the wave dial is perhaps the hidden gem here, would have to see them all in the metal to make a decision.


----------



## todoroki

All 300 pieces now fully reserved within 24 hours. Delivery not until January for the gold one. I think the suwa is out in October...


----------



## One-Seventy

todoroki said:


> All 300 pieces now fully reserved within 24 hours. Delivery not until January...


"Recession", lol!


----------



## sprite1275

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Thai, not Taiwanese. I reserved the green one, quite nice imo


The green looks stunning. Best of the bunch I reckon.


----------



## ts298

Chrono Brewer said:


> Two new 44GS manual winders with sunray finish:
> Mastershop models
> no limited production
> closed caseback
> $5200 each
> available September




 These are nice. However they’re the kind of watches I’d expect to see in the JDM catalog at the $2-3k price point.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

Chrono Brewer said:


> Two new 44GS manual winders with sunray finish:
> 
> Mastershop models
> no limited production
> closed caseback
> $5200 each
> available September
> 
> View attachment 16808107
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Release: Grand Seiko SBGW291 And SGBW293 — 44GS Styling In A Most Wearable Size
> 
> 
> ✓ Grand Seiko releases two new 44GS-style watches ✓ SBGW291 and SBGW293 ✓ Thomas has a first look ✓ Read all about them here! ✓
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fratellowatches.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 44GS SBGW291 and SBGW293 | GS9 Club | Grand Seiko
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko presents two new references in the Heritage Collection sharing the same mid-size 44GS case: SBGW291 and SBGW293. Learn more here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grandseikogs9club.com


Lazy and boring. It's like those SBGX quartz 37mm models. Soul-less....Might as well get the KS line if you don't care about the movement and just want the looks.


----------



## smghasan7

So guys, I'm thinking of getting SBGA475 ... I loved the SBGA285 but they're discontinued and hard to find ... I also loved the Snowflake but never pulled trigger due to larger size at 41mm and Titanium which I'm not a fan of... This one is smaller case 39mm, SD, beautiful dial and some blue accents... I really like it and want it and it's going to be very rare with just 50 pieces... 
share you thoughts guys, not sure why I'm a bit nervous...


----------



## bibbibart

smghasan7 said:


> So guys, I'm thinking of getting SBGA475 ... I loved the SBGA285 but they're discontinued and hard to find ... I also loved the Snowflake but never pulled trigger due to larger size at 41mm and Titanium which I'm not a fan of... This one is smaller case 39mm, SD, beautiful dial and some blue accents... I really like it and want it and it's going to be very rare with just 50 pieces...
> share you thoughts guys, not sure why I'm a bit nervous...
> 
> View attachment 16808794


And so am I (thinking). Such good specs. With a fully brushed bracelet. Go for it. I’m just about to pull the trigger.


----------



## smghasan7

bibbibart said:


> And so am I (thinking). Such good specs. With a fully brushed bracelet. Go for it. I’m just about to pull the trigger.


How do you think it'd hold out in a few years... Will it be just another forgotten LE?


----------



## twgxiong

Chrono Brewer said:


> Two new 44GS manual winders with sunray finish:


these look great, I only wish they had a nice bracelet pulled from their back catalogue to go along with them. if it was quartz at this size I would be all over one


----------



## Biggles3

Biggles3 said:


> Thailand GS just announced, limited to only 100 pieces.
> View attachment 16805715


Sold out of the individual piece allocation on the first day apparently, now if you want this you have to buy the three watch set.


----------



## Goyo924

Here are a few new ones that I found on a Japanese website just by randomly googling the next progression of model numbers. It seems these are both due for release some time this year. First up is the SLGH019 in the Evolution 9 case with a blue Mt. Iwate dial and 9SA5 movement. Google translate says will be in titanium. 










Next up is the SLGH013 which has a 44GS case and will be in ever-brilliant steel, also with the 9SA5 movement.


----------



## Kakemonster

The SLGH019 looks very nice! But dissapointed it is in titanium. The slgh013 looks very similar to sbgp017, but with a different texture.


----------



## smghasan7

Goyo924 said:


> Here are a few new ones that I found on a Japanese website just by randomly googling the next progression of model numbers. It seems these are both due for release some time this year. First up is the SLGH019 in the Evolution 9 case with a blue Mt. Iwate dial and 9SA5 movement. Google translate says will be in titanium.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next up is the SLGH013 which has a 44GS case and will be in ever-brilliant steel, also with the 9SA5 movement.


 Slgh013 gonna make Sea of Cloud owners mad I guess


----------



## One-Seventy

smghasan7 said:


> Slgh013 gonna make Sea of Cloud owners mad I guess


It's a different watch, and will be a lot more expensive. If anyone is still, I mean _still, _thinking they are buying a GS that is going to have a one-of-a-kind dial not shared with any other case, movement etc. then at this point they need to get a brain transplant . I doubt this will make any difference to the used price of the '017, which is possibly an important point given how "investment value" is now a permanent, malignant lesion that's attached itself to this interest.


----------



## alde

Chrono Brewer said:


> Two new 44GS manual winders with sunray finish:
> 
> Mastershop models
> no limited production
> closed caseback
> $5200 each
> available September
> 
> View attachment 16808107
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Release: Grand Seiko SBGW291 And SGBW293 — 44GS Styling In A Most Wearable Size
> 
> 
> ✓ Grand Seiko releases two new 44GS-style watches ✓ SBGW291 and SBGW293 ✓ Thomas has a first look ✓ Read all about them here! ✓
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fratellowatches.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 44GS SBGW291 and SBGW293 | GS9 Club | Grand Seiko
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko presents two new references in the Heritage Collection sharing the same mid-size 44GS case: SBGW291 and SBGW293. Learn more here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grandseikogs9club.com


I like them. Thank you for bringing them.
Bracelet aside, I think that having a manual winding hi beat 36000 would be a very interesting feature. A true tribute to classic GS, and I bet they would be hot


----------



## Chrono Brewer

smghasan7 said:


> Slgh013 gonna make Sea of Cloud owners mad I guess


Exclusivity can feel fun but there’s plenty else to enjoy about my Sea of Clouds. It’s a great design that makes me smile, regardless of how many identical or similar pieces are in circulation.



One-Seventy said:


> It's a different watch, and will be a lot more expensive. If anyone is still, I mean _still, _thinking they are buying a GS that is going to have a one-of-a-kind dial not shared with any other case, movement etc. then at this point they need to get a brain transplant . I doubt this will make any difference to the used price of the '017, which is possibly an important point given how "investment value" is now a permanent, malignant lesion that's attached itself to this interest.


True, I can’t think of any reason GS would design a knockout dial and not make the most of it. And no more apt description for the rising trend of investor-flipper mindset than “malignant”.


----------



## smghasan7

smghasan7 said:


> How do you think it'd hold out in a few years... Will it be just another forgotten LE?


?? someone pls share your views... This is about the last piece... I need to act quick... This is the pic he sent...


----------



## Chrono Brewer

smghasan7 said:


> So guys, I'm thinking of getting SBGA475 ... I loved the SBGA285 but they're discontinued and hard to find ... I also loved the Snowflake but never pulled trigger due to larger size at 41mm and Titanium which I'm not a fan of... This one is smaller case 39mm, SD, beautiful dial and some blue accents... I really like it and want it and it's going to be very rare with just 50 pieces...
> share you thoughts guys, not sure why I'm a bit nervous...
> 
> View attachment 16808794





smghasan7 said:


> How do you think it'd hold out in a few years... Will it be just another forgotten LE?





smghasan7 said:


> ?? someone pls share your views... This is about the last piece... I need to act quick... This is the pic he sent...
> View attachment 16811259


My view is to try only buying a timepiece because you want to wear it, not because it may have investment value. Nobody ever sipped champagne on their yacht in Monaco simply because of their success flipping watches.

Would you enjoy wearing it? You stated why it’s personally appealing. If you can afford it and it makes you smile, go for it. Try framing any potential resale value as getting your money back out because you got tired of it. Don’t try to anticipate profits or you’re taking a gamble and unlikely to get the return you want.

Besides, trading a watch that ultimately disappointed you is reasonable, but the flipper mindset has started to ruin this hobby for the genuine enthusiasts. It will steal your joy.


----------



## bibbibart

smghasan7 said:


> ?? someone pls share your views... This is about the last piece... I need to act quick... This is the pic he sent...
> View attachment 16811259


Ok, so this is from „marosaur” (on Carousell) or tokeidokay (on IG). He takes such poor photos, a pitty. 

As regards your question - I cannot care less about my watches’ value on secondary market. But of you ask about this particular 50 pcs LE of a Snowflake, I do not think it will ever become a collector’s item in the way you ask. 

Still, very nice watch.


----------



## smghasan7

bibbibart said:


> Ok, so this is from „marosaur” (on Carousell) or tokeidokay (on IG). He takes such poor photos, a pitty.
> 
> As regards your question - I cannot care less about my watches’ value on secondary market. But of you ask about this particular 50 pcs LE of a Snowflake, I do not think it will ever become a collector’s item in the way you ask.
> 
> Still, very nice watch.


Since you know marosaur/tokeidokay, can I ask about him and feedback?

Interesting you note it will not become collector's item... I thought otherwise so can you elaborate? I'm still new to the game so learning on the way from more experienced folk


----------



## One-Seventy

smghasan7 said:


> Since you know marosaur/tokeidokay, can I ask about him and feedback?
> 
> Interesting you note it will not become collector's item... I thought otherwise so can you elaborate? I'm still new to the game so learning on the way from more experienced folk


Are you looking for capital value downside protection or the potential for asset value accretion? What is your portfolio strategy?


----------



## bxtime

smghasan7 said:


> So guys, I'm thinking of getting SBGA475 ... I loved the SBGA285 but they're discontinued and hard to find ... I also loved the Snowflake but never pulled trigger due to larger size at 41mm and Titanium which I'm not a fan of... This one is smaller case 39mm, SD, beautiful dial and some blue accents... I really like it and want it and it's going to be very rare with just 50 pieces...
> share you thoughts guys, not sure why I'm a bit nervous...
> 
> View attachment 16808794


Looks like a great GS. I really like the SBGA285 as an everyday wearer but this dial is next level. The 39mm size should wear great.


----------



## smghasan7

One-Seventy said:


> Are you looking for capital value downside protection or the potential for asset value accretion? What is your portfolio strategy?


The strategy to this *Investment *is to enjoy a great watch and when you in an unknown future decide to let it go, it get's you close to what you paid... If more thats bonus!! I mean lovely the quirky sarcarsm rofl... No in all honesty, if you're getting a LE and that too a 50 piece then obviously it would have a different resale value compared to regular production models... I m just trying to understand these dynamics more closely as I've set into my collection journey... I like to collect pieces that are rare, that have a story to tell and that don't tank in value... Hope you get the background now... appreciate the comment and would welcome more


----------



## bibbibart

Snowflake is a classic. Not for me, because it’s too big. So this little treasure from Japan is a great option. One cannot be wrong about this reference (provided that one is a GS enthusiast). 

As I’ve written a couple of times on this forum - I’m hungry for LEs - the more limited the better. In these turbulent economic times ahead of us, if you intend to buy a fantastic watch which „just in case will at least keep its purchase price” should you need cash again, this one should be a very good option. Still, IMHO, it will not gain value like Whirlpool, Peacock or Kiku. Too limited exposure on social media. 

So go and grab it and flood us with tons of godf photos.


----------



## westcoastco

smghasan7 said:


> The strategy to this *Investment *is to enjoy a great watch and when you in an unknown future decide to let it go, it get's you close to what you paid... If more thats bonus!! I mean lovely the quirky sarcarsm rofl... No in all honesty, if you're getting a LE and that too a 50 piece then obviously it would have a different resale value compared to regular production models... I m just trying to understand these dynamics more closely as I've set into my collection journey... I like to collect pieces that are rare, that have a story to tell and that don't tank in value... Hope you get the background now... appreciate the comment and would welcome more


Since we are on the GS forum: most GS, LE or regular models, depreciate. Lower numbers LE do not necessarily hold value better than bigger LE - I have first hand experience. It all boils down to how desirable the particular model is. It’s not easy to predict which model will have lasting demand. The proverbial Peacock is a thick and chunky yet dressy GMT that somehow people pay top dollar for. The US blue kirazuri also appreciated while smaller LEs don’t.

GS remixes cases, dial colors and textures all the time, so if you miss out on some LE, you can bet something similar is around the corner or has been done before and is available preowned.


----------



## PocketWatchTime

aldi said:


> Because the SBGY009 uses the 0AG0 case code as per below, I should be able to use the bracelet from SBG017 right? There is a difference of 0.2mm in case thickness, but both case diameter, lug to lug and lug width are identitical
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus9Time Grand Seiko Database — Plus9Time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.plus9time.com


That’s what I figured too. The bracelet can’t be that different for a .2 mm change. I called up the grand seiko online boutique and they said it should work. Not really sure if they really know… Or if they just wanted to sell me a bracelet. But, I bought the bracelet. 😁 I will let WUS know when I get it installed and see how it works. 

I just published a YouTube review about my SBGY009 — I’ll have to update it after getting the bracelet installed.
SBGY009 Video


----------



## aldi

Another owner who owns both models has confirmed that the bracelet from the SBGP017 fits the SBGY009.


__
http://instagr.am/p/Cg3TDroLQ-L/


----------



## palletwheel

One-Seventy said:


> It's a different watch, and will be a lot more expensive. If anyone is still, I mean _still, _thinking they are buying a GS that is going to have a one-of-a-kind dial not shared with any other case, movement etc. then at this point they need to get a brain transplant . I doubt this will make any difference to the used price of the '017, which is possibly an important point given how "investment value" is now a permanent, malignant lesion that's attached itself to this interest.


Well, you could buy an Omiwatari. Even though I like it, given how well it's selling, you can be sure GS won't do another like it, lol. I gather that's why they have the bandwidth to make all these 9R31 based LEs.


----------



## valuewatchguy

smghasan7 said:


> The strategy to this *Investment *is to enjoy a great watch and when you in an unknown future decide to let it go, it get's you close to what you paid... If more thats bonus!! I mean lovely the quirky sarcarsm rofl... No in all honesty, if you're getting a LE and that too a 50 piece then obviously it would have a different resale value compared to regular production models... I m just trying to understand these dynamics more closely as I've set into my collection journey... I like to collect pieces that are rare, that have a story to tell and that don't tank in value... Hope you get the background now... appreciate the comment and would welcome more


GS releases more LE models than non-LE and as such has diluted the value of the term to a degree. Then adding in that the dials, movements, cases, and sizes get released in infinite combinations the difference in many models boils down to nuance at times. you have zero guarantee that your purchase will maintain value. You might get lucky and find the model that is the hidden gem and enthusiasts love or you may not.

that’s why all that is important is if you love it. Just go in with the expectations that a 30-40% drop in value (from MSRP) when you sell it down the road is what you will face. Until the last couple of years that was a fairly good metric for preowned models in good condition. (An typical of most entry level luxury watches regardless of brand) Of course there are exceptions as already mentioned. Good luck picking the exception.

also remember when buying a niche GS and reselling You are really only selling to a small niche of watch enthusiasts.GS is popular for sure but is dwarfed by the number of people interested in let’s say Omega. Then expecting to find buyers within that group who appreciated some niche LE model within the GS portfolio can be tough. Especially when there may be other models that look very similar for less $ than you are asking.

may the odds ever be in your favor, tribute!


----------



## Watch19

smghasan7 said:


> The strategy to this *Investment *is to enjoy a great watch and when you in an unknown future decide to let it go, it get's you close to what you paid... If more thats bonus!! I mean lovely the quirky sarcarsm rofl... No in all honesty, if you're getting a LE and that too a 50 piece then obviously it would have a different resale value compared to regular production models... I m just trying to understand these dynamics more closely as I've set into my collection journey... I like to collect pieces that are rare, that have a story to tell and that don't tank in value... Hope you get the background now... appreciate the comment and would welcome more



The original seller in Japan priced the watch at 484,000円 so the asking price you're looking at already has a substantial "appreciation" built in. So if you buy, you'll need the watch to double from it's initial price to turn a profit if/when you sell.
There are a number of GS LE's that sell for more than their MSRP but nearly none have gone up 2X.

Buy it because you like the look and 39mm fits you better than a 41mm Snowflake. That's what I did.


----------



## smghasan7

Watch19 said:


> The original seller in Japan priced the watch at 484,000円 so the asking price you're looking at already has a substantial "appreciation" built in. So if you buy, you'll need the watch to double from it's initial price to turn a profit if/when you sell.
> There are a number of GS LE's that sell for more than their MSRP but nearly none have gone up 2X.
> 
> Buy it because you like the look and 39mm fits you better than a 41mm Snowflake. That's what I did.


do you mean you've also bought it?


----------



## Watch19

smghasan7 said:


> do you mean you've also bought it?


No. Just looked up the prices for the one you're considering.
Mine was from a while ago. Wanted a Snowflake but that was too large. Ended up with a SBGA129. 39mm steel. Possibly the same case as the SBGA475.


----------



## Bluesmoke_99

ugh… I bought SBGJ261 “blue peacock” and now they say this. I have until Thursday to decide. It is really nice that Grand Seiko, unlike Bolex, does things in an orderly, transparent way. What would y’ll do?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Bluesmoke_99 said:


> ugh… I bought SBGJ261 “blue peacock” and now they say this. I have until Thursday to decide. It is really nice that Grand Seiko, unlike Bolex, does things in an orderly, transparent way. What would y’ll do?


GO FOR IT!

I'm still waiting for my AD to let me know if he can secure one for me and the wife.


----------



## MickCollins1916

Just saw this in my email…the link to the page containing more info shows a 404 error, but will be curious to learn more.


----------



## Goyo924

I’m loving the crown at 4:00. I think I read that they’re 39 mm and 12.3 mm thick. I really like the white/silver GMT hand on the black dial.


----------



## brianinCA

MickCollins1916 said:


> Just saw this in my email…the link to the page containing more info shows a 404 error, but will be curious to learn more.


I just saw that email as well. Interesting that they’ve moved the date and crown to 4:00. The SBGN027 looks very similar to the SBGN025 Ishetan Shinjuku 56 piece LE released last year without the textured dial.


----------



## NightScar

MickCollins1916 said:


> Just saw this in my email…the link to the page containing more info shows a 404 error, but will be curious to learn more.



at $3300, its very tempting…


----------



## MickCollins1916

Goyo924 said:


> I’m loving the crown at 4:00. I think I read that they’re 39 mm and 12.3 mm thick. I really like the white/silver GMT hand on the black dial.





brianinCA said:


> I just saw that email as well. Interesting that they’ve moved the date and crown to 4:00. The SBGN027 looks very similar to the SBGN025 Ishetan Shinjuku 56 piece LE released last year without the textured dial.
> 
> View attachment 16816846
> 
> 
> View attachment 16816848





NightScar said:


> at $3300, its very tempting…
> 
> View attachment 16816860


The SBGN025 dial is a stunner! No comparison with the new model, the LE takes it. 

Price is solid on these new guys and I dig the 4 o’clock crown too. 

I own SBGN005 and SBGE257 at the moment and putting aside movement and WR differences, one thing I dig more on the 005 compared with the 257 is the lack of odd numbers on the rehaut. 

The new models have the odd numbers on the rehaut, which is a bit busy for my tastes. The SBGN005 lume is solid if not spectacular, but the new models have a similar lume setup to the SBGE257, with lume on the hands and cardinal markers only, which is unfortunate.


----------



## One-Seventy

I don't want to be a moaning minnie, but although I do like 4 o'clock crowns in general I don't see how this is an improvement on the existing models:


Lesser nighttime visibility
Reduced 24h hand visual distinction on the black version
Busier rehaut (really, the numbers and dots on the bezel are plenty)
Still with the 19mm bracelet
Retail price is the same, or slightly higher

The case may also appear smaller than the existing 003/005 family, because of the tucked-away crown and lack of guards. That could be a positive, though.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

One-Seventy said:


> I don't want to be a moaning minnie, but although I do like 4 o'clock crowns in general I don't see how this is an improvement on the existing models:
> 
> 
> Lesser nighttime visibility
> Reduced 24h hand visual distinction on the black version
> Busier rehaut (really, the numbers and dots on the bezel are plenty)
> Still with the 19mm bracelet
> Retail price is the same, or slightly higher
> 
> The case may also appear smaller than the existing 003/005 family, because of the tucked-away crown and lack of guards. That could be a positive, though.


I agree with your points. The one good thing they did (imo) was making the hand tips slightly more squared off. 

ps. what do you mean by lesser nighttime viz? The lume plots are smaller?


----------



## duckmcf

FFS, would it kill them to release a 9F86 with a rotating bezel?

I mean, seriously…


----------



## smghasan7

Watch19 said:


> No. Just looked up the prices for the one you're considering.
> Mine was from a while ago. Wanted a Snowflake but that was too large. Ended up with a SBGA129. 39mm steel. Possibly the same case as the SBGA475.


Interesting! SBGA129 is a beauty! the guy that had SBGA475 told me he sold 129 for USD $9k which I don't believe... would u like to share how much you got it for?


----------



## One-Seventy

SKYWATCH007 said:


> I agree with your points. The one good thing they did (imo) was making the hand tips slightly more squared off.
> 
> ps. what do you mean by lesser nighttime viz? The lume plots are smaller?


I'd missed that thank you; yes, it does help. Looks like the lume on the hands is fractionally wider than before.

The lume plots at the 3/6/9/12 positions are reasonably sized, about as big as before, but they have been dropped from all the other indexes.


----------



## One-Seventy

duckmcf said:


> FFS, would it kill them to release a 9F86 with a rotating bezel?
> 
> I mean, seriously…


I was hoping it would be, as the chapter ring is also marked with hours, making it easier to use that and the bezel for two different time zones. But sadly...


----------



## ts298

I’m digging these new 9Fs. They have a sportier handset and date window than the SBGN003/005. As much as I love my SBGN003, it has some strangely dressy features, like the date window frame. These new ones will be available from Japan for under $3k in a few months. I’m also excited to see if they drop in an LE textured dial in this case in the coming months.


----------



## Liscon

I'm sure I read that the new models are also have a 200m water rating.


----------



## westcoastco

On SBGN00x the hands are hard to distinguish at night based on lume. So these new models appear to be a step forward in that regard. The date window was more refined on the older models. If they had updated the hour hand on the older models to something like these ones, that would be perfection.


----------



## One-Seventy

The case is almost, but not quite, the same as last year's ceramic-trimmed GMTs, which have been very unpopular due to their price. I'm idly wondering why GS doesn't reuse that case, and pin the price back to the same sort of level with a steel bezel, thinner caseback for 10 atm, and a simpler dial. It's only 1mm wider, just the same from lug to lug, and has a more conventional 20mm lug width. Hey ho .


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> FFS, would it kill them to release a 9F86 with a rotating bezel?
> 
> I mean, seriously…


Seiko 1,234.5th anniversary
Bezel inspired by the rings around Saturn (which the Shinshu Watch Studio would have relocated to) (let's give a Neon Genesis Evangelion spin to it - Shinshu-3?)
Sale price of 1x10^12 Terracoin


----------



## westcoastco

Stainless steel, rotating bezel, 40mm is the winning combo. For both divers and GMT. Why GS doesn’t do it boggles the mind. Maybe in the next century they will get there.


----------



## brianinCA

Liscon said:


> I'm sure I read that the new models are also have a 200m water rating.
> 
> View attachment 16817201


That photo says 10 bar water resistant in the paragraph and then 20 bar water resistant under functions.


----------



## MickCollins1916

Quick comparison of the newer model (courtesy of GS9) and my SBGN005 on the right.


----------



## MX793

4 o'clock date that is radially oriented gets a big thumbs down from us lefties.

More intrigued by the new SBGW291/293 *non-LE* midsize 44GS models.


----------



## drhr

MX793 said:


> 4 o'clock date that is radially oriented gets a big thumbs down from us lefties.
> 
> *More intrigued by the new SBGW291/293 non-LE midsize 44GS models.*


Yay, thought I might be the only one! Simplicity at it's best and the GS look I love


----------



## percysmith

westcoastco said:


> Stainless steel, rotating bezel, 40mm is the winning combo. For both divers and GMT. Why GS doesn’t do it boggles the mind. Maybe in the next century they will get there.


If they haven't released it, I believe in keeping my powder dry. There has to be some reason to come back to WIS tomorrow (@duckmcf agree?)


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> If they haven't released it, I believe in keeping my powder dry. There has to be some reason to come back to WIS tomorrow (@duckmcf agree?)


Yep, I’m stilling keeping the powder dry…

rant begins

*Exec Summary: The only way a HAQ traveler/true GMT watch makes any sense is if it’s fitted with a rotating bezel.*

It is utterly unbelievable to me that they are yet to release a 9F86 with a rotating bezel.

I could understand it if the 9F86 was a caller/office GMT, but to only release fixed bezel travel/true GMT watches means that you have to hack the High Accuracy Quartz movement every time you want to change the 24hr hand time zone. Even then you’d still have to hack it for daylight savings.

So, if you want to use an SBGN005 as a travel watch, you have to set the 24hr hand to your local time zone, meaning that whenever you’re not traveling the 24hr hand is telling you something you already know (that it’s am or pm). Sure, when you’re traveling it’s telling you your home time, but you still have to hack the movement to change the 24hr hand for changes to daylight savings.

You could set the 24hr hand to Zulu time, but then that’s useless when you’re traveling and only useful to people that use Zulu time in their daily job. That is, military or other operations teams that think and work in Zulu time.

In Rolex land they tell you to:

set the GMT 24hr hand to GMT/UTC/Zulu, and then spin the bezel to read off any time zone you want
set the Explorer 2 24hr hand to your local time and read off your home time when you‘re exploring, which is fine because it’s not a HAQ watch so who cares if you have to manually reset the 24hr hand for daylight savings.

rant ends… 

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## One-Seventy

duckmcf said:


> It is utterly unbelievable to me that they are yet to release a 9F86 with a rotating bezel.
> 
> *I could understand it *if the 9F86 was a caller/office GMT


Utterly unbelievable, gosh : )

With a "caller" method of adjustment (I assume here that we are ignoring all other aspects, such as the entirety of its purpose in between adjustment!), then you'd have to hack it and reset the accuracy every time you adjusted for DST, so that means actually, you couldn't understand it.


> Sure, when you’re traveling it’s telling you your home time


Um, well, yeah. That's its purpose.

Basically you're describing all mechanicals with fixed bezels too, as you'd also have to hack those to cater for DST changes to your 24h time, which is mildly inconvenient although happens only twice a year. Mind you,this being WUS and the year 2022, I'm sure I will gain more traction and credibility with many newer subscribers if I described this as "mindless, spastic and offensive to me", or something


----------



## duckmcf

One-Seventy said:


> Utterly unbelievable, gosh.
> 
> With a "caller" method of adjustment (I assume here that we are ignoring all other aspects, such as the entirety of its purpose in between adjustment!), then you'd have to hack it and reset the accuracy every time you adjusted for DST, so that means actually, you couldn't understand it.
> 
> Um, well, yeah. That's its purpose.
> 
> Basically you're describing all mechanicals with fixed bezels too, as you'd also have to hack those to cater for DST changes to your 24h time, which is mildly inconvenient although happens only twice a year. Mind you,this being WUS and the year 2022, I'm sure I will gain more traction and credibility with many newer subscribers if I described this as "mindless, spastic and offensive to me", or something


OK, I thought I was clear, and mildly flippant, but obviously not.

I appreciate that you have long standing here and that you fully understand the difference between the two types of GMT movements, so do I.

Quote me out of context and poke fun at my prose as much as you like, but any way you cut it, I’m simply lamenting the fact that GS hasn’t fitted the 9F86 movement into a case with a rotating bezel and the obvious increase in utility that spinning bezel would bring.


----------



## percysmith

Hang on, let me try and unscramble the various scenarios for true GMT.

(For travel)

GMT hand set to home, no DST at home - overseas DST can be adjusted with jumping hour hand, no need to re-hack.
GMT hand set to home, DST at home (e.g. VIC, NSW but not QLD apparently!) - hacking every half year.

(Office mode)

GMT hand set to abroad, DST abroad (me tracking US Pacific Standard Time) - hacking every half year.
GMT hand set to abroad, no DST abroad - no need to hack (local DST adjusted with jumping hour hand).

I get @duckmcf's counter-argument that GMT hand can be handled by shifting the bezel - OK, but I use the bezel for handling the third time zone (AEST). I understand he tracks two time zones only but wants HAQ, I want three time zones but prefer mechanical.


----------



## westcoastco

With a rotating bezel on a 9F GMT you would not need to hack the movement between battery changes. Missed opportunity by GS to make a full featured GMT that its competitors cannot match.


----------



## percysmith

Is "battery changes" a typo...?! Watch stops, movement stops? Or is there some reserve power bank in 9F?


----------



## westcoastco

percysmith said:


> Is "battery changes" a typo...?! Watch stops, movement stops? Or is there some reserve power bank in 9F?


For those of us new to battery powered quartz and GMT watches:

Set the 24 hr hand to UTC which doesn’t need adjustment for daylight savings. Use the bezel for figuring out what time it is in any time zone you care about. Jump the local 12 hr hand when you travel or to adjust for daylight savings. The only time you need to hack or set the exact time is when you buy the watch or after a battery change, which on 9F happens roughly every 3 years. In that time, the watch would be at most 30 seconds off, more likely far less deviation than that. By comparison a mechanical Rolex or Tudor GMT with a rotating bezel would deviate as much or more within a couple of weeks.


----------



## MX793

westcoastco said:


> For those of us new to battery powered quartz and GMT watches:
> 
> Set the 24 hr hand to UTC which doesn’t need adjustment for daylight savings. Use the bezel for figuring out what time it is in any time zone you care about. Jump the local 12 hr hand when you travel or to adjust for daylight savings. The only time you need to hack or set the exact time is when you buy the watch or after a battery change, which on 9F happens roughly every 3 years. In that time, the watch would be at most 30 seconds off, more likely far less deviation than that. By comparison a mechanical Rolex or Tudor GMT with a rotating bezel would deviate as much or more within a couple of weeks.


What?

I'm not sure you're following the whole rotating bezel thing. Rotating bezel has nothing to do with the movement nor would it affect battery replacement.


----------



## percysmith

@MX793 I get what westcoastco is trying to say. With a quartz GMT which has jumping hour hand and bezel, there is no need to hack _until_ the battery runs out (@westcoastco please correct me if misunderstood)


----------



## percysmith

@duckmcf : quartz, jumping hour hand and bezel from the dark side.

(I know what you’re going to say: eco-drive is not HAQ)


----------



## One-Seventy

westcoastco said:


> With a rotating bezel on a 9F GMT you would not need to hack the movement between battery changes. Missed opportunity by GS to make a full featured GMT that its competitors cannot match.


But you would if you adopted a different use case. There are use cases that involve leaving the 24h hand where it is - at UTC, or some other unchanging zone - and only using the bezel to track another zone. For other situations, for example where your second and third zones both involve DST, you have to hack the watch.

However, for those who only need to track two zones that are subject to DST (home and away for example), which is not an uncommon requirement, a version with a rotating bezel would do. Theoretically you wouldn't have to hack the watch between battery changes - as long as the accuracy maintained over that long period was within your own personal tolerances.


----------



## westcoastco

percysmith said:


> @duckmcf : quartz, jumping hour hand and bezel from the dark side.
> 
> (I know what you’re going to say: eco-drive is not HAQ)


If Citizen released a GMT with rotating bezel, eco drive, and based on their 1 second per year movement, you would not need to hack the watch for decades! It can be a family heirloom, passed on from generation to generation without setting the time 

We have gone off the deep end on this GMT thing. GS, please release another LE of a dress watch!


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> Hang on, let me try and unscramble the various scenarios for true GMT.
> 
> (For travel)
> 
> GMT hand set to home, no DST at home - overseas DST can be adjusted with jumping hour hand, no need to re-hack.
> GMT hand set to home, DST at home (e.g. VIC, NSW but not QLD apparently!) - hacking every half year.
> 
> (Office mode)
> 
> GMT hand set to abroad, DST abroad (me tracking US Pacific Standard Time) - hacking every half year.
> GMT hand set to abroad, no DST abroad - no need to hack (local DST adjusted with jumping hour hand).
> 
> I get @duckmcf's counter-argument that GMT hand can be handled by shifting the bezel - OK, but I use the bezel for handling the third time zone (AEST). I understand he tracks two time zones only but wants HAQ, I want three time zones but prefer mechanical.


Nicely laid out, and as you implied, it all depends on each person‘s set of use cases.

As an example, say you live in Tokyo, have family in Scottsdale, Arizona and that’s your entire world view. A SBGN005 would be perfect. You could happily flip the 12hr hand for Japan’s changes for daylight savings and leave the 24hr hand permanently at UTC-7 as Arizona doesn’t observe daylight savings.

Alternatively, you could be a citizen of the world who works, physically or virtually, in multiple parts of the world. For that use case, one of the GS (Springdrive or automatic) GMTs with a rotating bezel would suit, e.g. a SBGE201. You simply set the 24hr hand to UTC/Zulu in the knowledge that turning the bezel left accesses the UTC+ time zones with the UTC- time zones to the right. This is how I’ve had my GMT-II set for the ~20 years that I’ve owned it.

The use case that makes the least sense to me is the one where you want to track 3 time zones simultaneously. For example, let’s expand use case 1 to add other family members in New York. You’d then have to pick either AZ or NY as the base 24hr hand setting. I’d pick AZ because they don’t do daylight savings. You’d then need to know what the time zone difference is between AZ and NY and then dial that up on the bezel. It’s makes more sense to me to set the 24hr hand to Zulu and then spin the bezel -7 for AZ and -5 (or -4 in summer) for NY, but that’s me.

Then there’s the elephant in the room. GS prints GMT on the dial of every watch they make with the 24hr hand. Wouldn’t it then be impolite to not set that hand to GMT?

All that said, in the smartphone era none of us really need this functionality any more. He‘s a screen grab from my iPhone, so perhaps I should stop talking about all this, but it’s splinter in my brain that I just can’t get out, but that’s my problem, not yours…🤯

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## percysmith

duckmcf said:


> Nicely laid out, and as you implied, it all depends on each person‘s set of use cases.
> 
> As an example, say you live in Tokyo, have family in Scottsdale, Arizona and that’s your entire world view. A SBGN005 would be perfect. You could happily flip the 12hr hand for Japan’s changes for daylight savings and leave the 24hr hand permanently at UTC-7 as Arizona doesn’t observe daylight savings.
> 
> Alternatively, you could be a citizen of the world who works, physically or virtually, in multiple parts of the world. For that use case, one of the GS (Springdrive or automatic) GMTs with a rotating bezel would suit, e.g. a SBGE201. You simply set the 24hr hand to UTC/Zulu in the knowledge that turning the bezel left accesses the UTC+ time zones with the UTC- time zones to the right. This is how I’ve had my GMT-II set for the ~20 years that I’ve owned it.
> 
> The use case that makes the least sense to me is the one where you want to track 3 time zones simultaneously. For example, let’s expand use case 1 to add other family members in New York. You’d then have to pick either AZ or NY as the base 24hr hand setting. I’d pick AZ because they don’t do daylight savings. You’d then need to know what the time zone difference is between AZ and NY and then dial that up on the bezel. It’s makes more sense to me to set the 24hr hand to Zulu and then spin the bezel -7 for AZ and -5 (or -4 in summer) for NY, but that’s me.
> 
> Then there’s the elephant in the room. GS prints GMT on the dial of every watch they make with the 24hr hand. Wouldn’t it then be impolite to not set that hand to GMT?
> 
> All that said, in the smartphone era none of us really need this functionality any more. He‘s a screen grab from my iPhone, so perhaps I should stop talking about all this, but it’s splinter in my brain that I just can’t get out, but that’s my problem, not yours…🤯
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel
> 
> View attachment 16820907


Or one of these. Don’t have to hack until battery change, too:


----------



## One-Seventy

duckmcf said:


> Then there’s the elephant in the room. GS prints GMT on the dial of every watch they make with the 24hr hand. Wouldn’t it then be impolite to not set that hand to GMT?


I have no doubt that that's an elephant in _someone's_ room on here


----------



## duckmcf

One-Seventy said:


> I have no doubt that that's an elephant in _someone's_ room on here


Yep, it’s almost always me. 
At work they call me, “Negative Nancy”. When I was in the US it was, “Debbie Downer”.
In my head, I’m the voice of reason, oh well, these days I just have fun with it… 😎


----------



## duckmcf

percysmith said:


> Or one of these. Don’t have to hack until battery change, too:
> 
> View attachment 16821714


That‘s, “God Teir“. I’ve always had at least one Casio since 1981, and I still have that 1981, still working, original…. 👍👍👍


----------



## One-Seventy

I


duckmcf said:


> Yep, it’s almost always me.
> At work they call me, “Negative Nancy”. When I was in the US it was, “Debbie Downer”.
> In my head, I’m the voice of reason, oh well, these days I just have fun with it… 😎


Often I go with "Moaning Minnie".


----------



## Gebbeth

Groaning Gary?


----------



## Watch19




----------



## Commisar

MickCollins1916 said:


> Just saw this in my email…the link to the page containing more info shows a 404 error, but will be curious to learn more.


I got an email from Toppers about these and was pleasantly surprised. Not massive price bump ($3300 new), a slight design change but they still have the lovely blue dial like my SBGN005.

I really like the updates hour hand but with the minute hand ended in a point to better hit the minute indices perfectly. 

Love the 4 o'clock crown, don't love the 19mm lug width.

I do miss the frame date window as GS REALLY knows how to do a great date window frame.

Overall, a good update and it makes the watch look more distinctive, for better and worse depending on who you ask.

If my SBGN005 magically transformed into a SBGN029 tonight I wouldn't be upset.


----------



## Commisar

MickCollins1916 said:


> The SBGN025 dial is a stunner! No comparison with the new model, the LE takes it.
> 
> Price is solid on these new guys and I dig the 4 o’clock crown too.
> 
> I own SBGN005 and SBGE257 at the moment and putting aside movement and WR differences, one thing I dig more on the 005 compared with the 257 is the lack of odd numbers on the rehaut.
> 
> The new models have the odd numbers on the rehaut, which is a bit busy for my tastes. The SBGN005 lume is solid if not spectacular, but the new models have a similar lume setup to the SBGE257, with lume on the hands and cardinal markers only, which is unfortunate.


Ahh I missed the lume change.

It seems that many designers at Grand Seiko just hate lume for some reason, except on the Evolution 9 series.


----------



## One-Seventy

Commisar said:


> Ahh I missed the lume change.
> 
> It seems that many designers at Grand Seiko just hate lume for some reason, except on the Evolution 9 series.


I think I prefer the characteristic crown-at-4 case but this bit does seem like a backward step.

Lume on the ceramic 9F GMTs is plentiful and long lasting, so I don't know why they didn't just repeat that arrangemrnt. Perhaps they're unifying the dial design on the quartz, SD and automatic GMTs from the sports range, and while lume at the cardinal points only is better than nothing, it's not a design decision I would have made.


----------



## Commisar

Quite possibly 


duckmcf said:


> FFS, would it kill them to release a 9F86 with a rotating bezel?
> 
> I mean, seriously…


Quite possibly 😁

GS refuses to give all models equal capabilities


----------



## oggygoggy

smghasan7 said:


> So guys, I'm thinking of getting SBGA475 ... I loved the SBGA285 but they're discontinued and hard to find ... I also loved the Snowflake but never pulled trigger due to larger size at 41mm and Titanium which I'm not a fan of... This one is smaller case 39mm, SD, beautiful dial and some blue accents... I really like it and want it and it's going to be very rare with just 50 pieces...
> share you thoughts guys, not sure why I'm a bit nervous...
> 
> View attachment 16808794


First a disclaimer - I have not seen this unit in person. Second, the number of units is irrelevant to me. The compelling feature is the power indicator. I prefer this on the back. GS are famed for their fabulous dials. Then they go and scar them with cutouts (and date windows)?? But here the cutout scar is less. My friend, if you consider the power indicator not too obtrusive then you should go for it. My two cents worth is that even this is too much. As a result I still do not own a spring drive!


----------



## SISL

Who here is getting the SBGK015?


----------



## bibbibart

SISL said:


> Who here is getting the SBGK015?


Me, for example. Can”t wait to land my hands on it.


----------



## Spiff70

Saw these on Instagram. Don't think they have already been discussed here.

Limited edition for the Chinese market, 168 watches










SBGH305










SBGH307










SBGH309


----------



## CarbonPrevails

Spiff70 said:


> Saw these on Instagram. Don't think they have already been discussed here.
> 
> Limited edition for the Chinese market, 168 watches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SBGH305
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SBGH307
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SBGH309


That cream colored one is kind of cool. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Spiff70

My pleasure. The texture seems to be the one they used on the SBGH269 (and a few other since). I kind of like the pale yellow too, but I have the feeling that the green could be more "spectacular" like "Momiji" can be in some lightning.


----------



## Brathahn0

One-Seventy said:


> I think I prefer the characteristic crown-at-4 case but this bit does seem like a backward step.
> 
> Lume on the ceramic 9F GMTs is plentiful and long lasting, so I don't know why they didn't just repeat that arrangemrnt. Perhaps they're unifying the dial design on the quartz, SD and automatic GMTs from the sports range, and while lume at the cardinal points only is better than nothing, it's not a design decision I would have made.


I could potentially live with the reduced lume, reminds me on my SBGX093, but let’s hope it has the shiny new micro adjust clasp. Otherwise the SBGN027 is pretty much what I was looking for. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Gebbeth

I really don't like the GS markings on the sapphire for the display case back. I really wished they wouldn't do that.


----------



## bibbibart

Don’t like any of the trio. Starting to think GS is diluting its jewels (sorry for my English, it probably makes little or no sense…).


----------



## Loevhagen

The green look almost exactly like a former LE: The SBGH261...


----------



## One-Seventy

bibbibart said:


> Don’t like any of the trio. Starting to think GS is diluting its jewels (sorry for my English, it probably makes little or no sense…).


It's for China. You need to feed the beast.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

todoroki said:


> All 300 pieces now fully reserved within 24 hours. Delivery not until January for the gold one. I think the suwa is out in October...


Only the green one (SBGH303) sold out within 24 hours. The other 2 Thailand Limited Editions (SBGY021/025) are still available as of today (I just asked my GS guy).


----------



## todoroki

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Only the green one (SBGH303) sold out within 24 hours. The other 2 Thailand Limited Editions (SBGY021/025) are still available as of today (I just asked my GS guy).


Yeah. I think that's correct. I enquired about the SBGH303 and got told it sold out, but later was offered both the other models.


----------



## bibbibart

todoroki said:


> Yeah. I think that's correct. I enquired about the SBGH303 and got told it sold out, but later was offered both the other models.


Aren’t these two SBGYs priced at 345.900 BHT? If so that would translate into sth like $9.500, so IMHO very expensive. Omiwatari goes at approx. $1.000 less?


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

bibbibart said:


> Aren’t these two SBGYs priced at 345.900 BHT? If so that would translate into sth like $9.500, so IMHO very expensive. Omiwatari goes at approx. $1.000 less?


Yes they are.

The Omiwatari costs 315.900 Baht brand new from GS Thailand (before any discounts and credit card cashbacks) and can be found used in perfect condition for about 240.000 Baht. I've even seen one for 212.000 Baht.

I don't know about other countries but Thailand is a great place for GS bargains, the Grey market dealers or second hand sellers sell most models much, much cheaper than GS Thailand (sometimes it makes me sad though, knowing how much they drop in value). 

Here are the prices of the Thailand Limited Editions:


----------



## super_purple

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Yes they are.
> 
> The Omiwatari costs 315.900 Baht brand new from GS Thailand (before any discounts and credit card cashbacks) and can be found used in perfect condition for about 240.000 Baht. I've even seen one for 212.000 Baht.
> 
> I don't know about other countries but Thailand is a great place for GS bargains, the Grey market dealers or second hand sellers sell most models much, much cheaper than GS Thailand (sometimes it makes me sad though, knowing how much they drop in value).
> 
> Here are the prices of the Thailand Limited Editions:
> 
> View attachment 16839637
> 
> View attachment 16839635
> 
> View attachment 16839636


I visit Thailand every other month and I've been very curious about the local grey GS market. Perhaps my language limitations makes it difficult to find out where these dealers are located. Do you have any recommendations on where I can look? Feel free to PM me if you prefer. Cheers!


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

super_purple said:


> I visit Thailand every other month and I've been very curious about the local grey GS market. Perhaps my language limitations makes it difficult to find out where these dealers are located. Do you have any recommendations on where I can look? Feel free to PM me if you prefer. Cheers!


Will send you a PM later.


----------



## breakz

Man, that SBGY021 looks phenomenal. I won't get anywhere close to Thailand any time soon, so I'll have to hold out for aftermarket sales or other models.


----------



## Watchyouloved

You guys know anywhere where I could purchase a new *SBGW289*? I saw some AD’s had them lingering for a bit and they were even available on hodinkee for awhile after release but I unfortunately didn’t take the plunge at the time but I am able now but can’t find any! :/


----------



## pzeroko

Watchyouloved said:


> You guys know anywhere where I could purchase a new *SBGW289*? I saw some AD’s had them lingering for a bit and they were even available on hodinkee for awhile after release but I unfortunately didn’t take the plunge at the time but I am able now but can’t find any! :/


Seen a few on Chrono. Probably challenging to find one in AD at this point depending on your country.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Watchyouloved said:


> You guys know anywhere where I could purchase a new *SBGW289*? I saw some AD’s had them lingering for a bit and they were even available on hodinkee for awhile after release but I unfortunately didn’t take the plunge at the time but I am able now but can’t find any! :/


I'd start by calling Little Treasury and Topper. To my understanding they're just about the two biggest GS dealers in the US and so most allocations of a LE. Otherwise Chrono24 currently has 13 listed, 2 of which in the US.


----------



## snash7

Seems like Hodinkee will have the SBGW289 in stock sometime in the future, simply sign up to be alerted when they receive additional stock.


----------



## CydeWeys

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Yes they are.
> 
> The Omiwatari costs 315.900 Baht brand new from GS Thailand (before any discounts and credit card cashbacks) and can be found used in perfect condition for about 240.000 Baht. I've even seen one for 212.000 Baht.
> 
> I don't know about other countries but Thailand is a great place for GS bargains, the Grey market dealers or second hand sellers sell most models much, much cheaper than GS Thailand (sometimes it makes me sad though, knowing how much they drop in value).
> 
> Here are the prices of the Thailand Limited Editions:
> 
> View attachment 16839637
> 
> View attachment 16839635
> 
> View attachment 16839636


It's actually kind of infuriating how great all three of these are, and that it's hard for us to even get access to them. Oh well. I'll probably never even see a single one of these in person, and that's a shame.


----------



## Jeff43

I'm considering the SBGN027 GMT but I like the glossy black dial of the SBGN003. Guess I'll have to wait for real life photos of the 027 to compare. The 027 is described as having a black sunray dial.


----------



## beetle

On these pictures you can kind of see the sunray finish:

__
http://instagr.am/p/ChIPTebIq5f/


__
http://instagr.am/p/ChceVCHqKfx/

I also would have preferred the inky, glossy black dial of the SBGN003.


----------



## Ryan1881

Jeff43 said:


> I'm considering the SBGN027 GMT but I like the glossy black dial of the SBGN003. Guess I'll have to wait for real life photos of the 027 to compare. The 027 is described as having a black sunray dial.


I wonder if it's 20mm lugs like the automatics they've released not long ago and updated clasp? I think I prefer the red 2nd hour hand, date at 3, and crown at 3 on sbgn003.


----------



## tfost

19mm lugs: Grand Seiko Quartz GMT SBGN027 39mm Sport Watch

Was hoping the same re the clasp, but from the slight angle photos I’ve seen (UK GS online boutique) that site a bit of the band and clasp, looks like a regular twin button clasp.


----------



## poofoot

tfost said:


> 19mm lugs: Grand Seiko Quartz GMT SBGN027 39mm Sport Watch
> 
> Was hoping the same re the clasp, but from the slight angle photos I’ve seen (UK GS online boutique) that site a bit of the band and clasp, looks like a regular twin button clasp.


I like this. But I wish it just had a little splash of color somewhere. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ryan1881

beetle said:


> On these pictures you can kind of see the sunray finish:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/ChIPTebIq5f/
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/ChceVCHqKfx/
> 
> I also would have preferred the inky, glossy black dial of the SBGN003.


Why does it have a hint of brown?


----------



## JvTrinh

New Grand Seiko release, the SLGH013, or "Snowscape". Hi-beat movement (9SA5), with a 44GS case. I like it, but wish it came with a spring drive movement (still waiting on the black birch with the SD movement as well). 


























Grand Seiko Release ‘Snowscape’ Hi-Beat 44GS SLGH013 Inspired by Mount Iwate


----------



## CarbonPrevails

JvTrinh said:


> New Grand Seiko release, the SLGH013, or "Snowscape". Hi-beat movement (9SA5), with a 44GS case. I like it, but wish it came with a spring drive movement (still waiting on the black birch with the SD movement as well).
> 
> View attachment 16882276
> 
> 
> View attachment 16882271
> View attachment 16882275
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Release ‘Snowscape’ Hi-Beat 44GS SLGH013 Inspired by Mount Iwate


I’m hoping for a night birch spring drive movement as well. It would be even better if they made the dial darker than the current model.


----------



## super_purple

40mm case and 19mm lugs is nice. Much better looking than the recent models with 22mm lugs they've been releasing.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

That frost effect is gorgeous. Especially with their whiter-toned steel alloy. Sadly another piece I'd happily wear but it's a tad too far down the list.


----------



## GrandWatcher

JvTrinh said:


> New Grand Seiko release, the SLGH013, or "Snowscape". Hi-beat movement (9SA5), with a 44GS case. I like it, but wish it came with a spring drive movement (still waiting on the black birch with the SD movement as well).
> 
> View attachment 16882276
> 
> 
> View attachment 16882271
> View attachment 16882275
> 
> 
> Grand Seiko Release ‘Snowscape’ Hi-Beat 44GS SLGH013 Inspired by Mount Iwate


They have nailed the dial texture. 

Would seriously consider this but I would never be able to decide between this and my SBGA415 Winter.


----------



## smghasan7

super_purple said:


> 40mm case and 19mm lugs is nice. Much better looking than the recent models with 22mm lugs they've been releasing.


Yup, I'm not a fan of those 22mm lugs... ugly af...


----------



## Kakemonster

This looks gorgeous! Similar to the sbgp017, but looks even better in my eyes.


----------



## smghasan7

Kakemonster said:


> This looks gorgeous! Similar to the sbgp017, but looks even better in my eyes.


Dial appears to be smaller as edges of the glass are thicker.... Similar to SBGY009


----------



## CydeWeys

Is this the first non-Evo 9 watch to use one of the new movements? I like it!


----------



## lehippi

They really need to fix the accuracy of the 9SA5 before they continue to pump and dump it. It's a shame because I really like the new frost dial and the 44gs case, but the accuracy deviations are unacceptable.


----------



## jmariorebelo

lehippi said:


> They really need to fix the accuracy of the 9SA5 before they continue to pump and dump it. It's a shame because I really like the new frost dial and the 44gs case, but the accuracy deviations are unacceptable.


Haven't heard any complaints, can you expand a bit?


----------



## lehippi

jmariorebelo said:


> Haven't heard any complaints, can you expand a bit?


Search 9SA5 on watchuseek and other forums. Lot's of complaints of accuracy that's out of bounds (15, 20 seconds).


----------



## Gebbeth

It doesn’t matter how nice the dial is if the movement keeps running fast +17-20 spd. This is going to be a problem with all watches with the 9SA5 movement if they don’t come out with a consistent fix.


----------



## John Price

Is this a vocal minority though? Or is it prevalent?


----------



## Gebbeth

John Price said:


> Is this a vocal minority though? Or is it prevalent?


Well it's not just me for sure. But we've been down this road before. How many people had the Tudor date wheel issue on the BB GMT? Enough?


----------



## staplebox

John Price said:


> Is this a vocal minority though? Or is it prevalent?


When asked at an online GS9 event I watched, Joe Kirk said the rate of service for regulation of the 9SA5 is about the same as other movements. For what that is worth to you.


----------



## Gebbeth

staplebox said:


> When asked at an online GS9 event I watched, Joe Kirk said the rate of service for regulation of the 9SA5 is about the same as other movements. For what that is worth to you.


Isn't he the Grand Seiko training manager? I wouldn't expect him to say anything less.


----------



## staplebox

Gebbeth said:


> Isn't he the Grand Seiko training manager? I wouldn't expect him to say anything less.


I don't know his title or him personally, I just know he's worked for GS for awhile and ran the Kodo event I watched. There is no doubt he knows his work but I couldn't speak to his veracity.

At the end of the event someone asked directly about the accuracy concerns of this movement. His response was that they had many service requests due to people using a timegrapher, which won't give an accurate reading on the 9SA5 due to the dual impact escapement. To keep watches from going to Japan unnecessarily, they had just obtained a grapher from Japan that can read the 9SA5 for the NY/NJ service center. Other than that he said the service regulation was the same as other movements.

I've seen a good handful of complaints, enough to give me pause unless I can't resist the case/dial. I've had no problem with my SD or 9F but the hi-beat is a new movement with new tech that may not be ironed out yet. Or maybe they have one guy putting them together who sucks at his job. Who knows, I think the jury is still out.


----------



## Goyo924

staplebox said:


> Or maybe they have one guy putting them together who sucks at his job. Who knows, I think the jury is still out.


Funny you mention this because I just heard from a GS boutique salesperson that only 3 people assemble the 9SA5 movement. Makes me wonder if maybe 1/3 are coming out with issues.


----------



## Gebbeth

Goyo924 said:


> Funny you mention this because I just heard from a GS boutique salesperson that only 3 people assemble the 9SA5 movement. Makes me wonder if maybe 1/3 are coming out with issues.


That's a 33% bad egg rate. That's not good for a signature watch movement from the brand.

I also have a hard time believing only 3 people assemble all 9SA5 movements.

As for using a "special" timegrapher, yeah I guess that could make sense. I know the same issues can happen on the Co-Axial escapements. But the most modern timegraphers have no issues with either. The Weishi 1900 series specifically can deal with dual escapement/co-axial escapements. That can't be the excuse.

Also, EYES! When a movement is noticeably fast after just a day of observation/synchronization with an atomic clock, and that error rate hasn't improved in a few weeks, there is a problem.

I pray to God, GS isn't using the dual impulse excuse/timegrapher excuse to blame watch movement issues on the purchasers of a $10k watch.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

jmariorebelo said:


> Haven't heard any complaints, can you expand a bit?
> [/


Check the white birch thread here. Mine is +12s/day after being regulated in Japan. Before that it was + 20 seconds or so. Many white birch users have similar experiences.


----------



## Gebbeth

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Check the white birch thread here. Mine is +12s/day after being regulated in Japan. Before that it was + 20 seconds or so. Many white birch users have similar experiences.


Yes, me too. I have had a saga with the Night Birch.


----------



## bibbibart

A new SBGW seems to be underway.


----------



## F1_watches

SBGJ261 ("2022 blue peacock") just landed...


----------



## super_purple

Gebbeth said:


> It doesn’t matter how nice the dial is if the movement keeps running fast +17-20 spd. This is going to be a problem with all watches with the 9SA5 movement if they don’t come out with a consistent fix.


Should have stuck the 5 day spring drive movement in there first until they sort out the issues with their hi-beat movement.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

bibbibart said:


> A new SBGW seems to be underway.


I can see Mr. Wonderful all over this red dial! Hard to tell if it'll be similar dial colour sans texture as the King Seiko "red wine."


----------



## super_purple

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Check the white birch thread here. Mine is +12s/day after being regulated in Japan. Before that it was + 20 seconds or so. Many white birch users have similar experiences.


The other part of this problem is the extremely slow repair service from GS. I'm not ready to pay MSRP for a watch with a high movement defect rate and a 6+ month turnaround on repairs.


----------



## bibbibart

F1_watches said:


> SBGJ261 ("2022 blue peacock") just landed...


Congrats. This new Peacock is soo good. Don’t get why so much attention goes to the Bamboo Forrest instead to this one.


----------



## Gebbeth

super_purple said:


> The other part of this problem is the extremely slow repair service from GS. I'm not ready to pay MSRP for a watch with a high movement defect rate and a 6+ month turnaround on repairs.


I was quoted 6-8 weeks, but that was from the AD. Who knows what GS in Seiko is going to say.


----------



## matthew P

I’m looking forward to hearing more about the 019




















Images from the GS group on Facebook












….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## Ryan1881

Ugh, Can they make some nice smaller watches with the 9f please, Thanks


----------



## Plus 9Time

Celebrating the 75th Anniversary of the founding of the Wako Department Store, Grand Seiko has announced the SBGE289, a limited edition model with 75 units produced. The watch has a stainless steel case that houses a 9R66 automatic Spring Drive GMT calibre. It comes with both a bracelet and crocodile strap.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Doesn’t particularly excite me. Case-back obstruction. Limit of 75 pieces. Same elements seen previously as if drawn out of a hat.

When are we going to see a 9RA2-generation GMT movement?

Unrelated, posting like it’s 1999.


----------



## bibbibart

Absolutely agree. GS could have tried better to honor 75th Anniv. of WAKO. Nothing exceptional in this take.


----------



## GrandWatcher

Chrono Brewer said:


> Same elements seen previously as if drawn out of a hat.


Just when you think Grand Seiko have settled on a design combination they throw out something like this


----------



## Domo

Hmmm for a WAKO L.E. it's a bit plain. No fancy numerals, simple PR meter....I normally like every colourful GS but I think there's currently some much better light blue choices available right now from them


----------



## Gebbeth

Note to Grand Seiko. Stop putting those awful lion seals on the exhibition case back. They are distracting and interfere with the whole purpose of an exhibition case back.

I don't get it. GS makes some continuing boneheaded decisions right alongside brilliant ones. It's like they are trying to even out everything to "average", like outstanding dials with absolutely crappy bracelets. Beautiful case shapes, that are too thick (and seemingly with an inability or unwillingness to make things thinner...grammar of design be damned).

Also, justify pin sleeves all you want, but that's just not gonna cut it. Get some screws on your bracelets, especially the divers and other tool watches. For Pete's sakes, it can't be that hard.

And to offer a 10k watch that doesn't have a single micro-adjust capability....cmon....that dog won't hunt.


----------



## super_purple

I actually think the SBGE289 looks really nice. It's not too flashy and the shade of blue is just right. Proportions are good too, though they should work on thinning the case for sure.


----------



## Whiskey&Watch

SBGE289 is beautiful, IMO. As usual, GS PR news is horrible, particularly the one in English. It doesn't explain the inspiration of the dial colour and its correlation to the history of "Wako". 
The specs are not too bad. It's quite thin compared to most of the GS GMTs. Diameter: 41.0mm, L2L: 49.0mm, and Thickness: 13.8mm 

Here is the link for the WAKO SBGE289 and other specialties to celebrate the 90th-75th Anniversary. 








和光75年限定品コレクション| 時計塔90年・和光75年| 銀座・和光| WAKO


和光75年を記念する限定品を、多数ご用意いたしました。お客様から定評のあるブランドとのコラボレーションや、和光の歴史にインスピレーションを受けたデザインなど、特別感のあるアイテムが揃っています。美しい暮らしを演出し、日常をより豊かにするこだわりの品をこの機会にぜひお楽しみください。




9075.wako.co.jp





Special Features: 

If you check the dial closely, you will notice that the numbers "7" and "5" on the edge of the case are pink gold (the same colour as the GMT letters).
There are many theories on the origin of "Wako" in Japan, and most say that it was named in hopes of arriving at an era of peace after so many wars and disasters. In Japanese culture, many believe that the blue sky symbolises peace, and they have a special name for this traditional Japanese colour, "みそらいろ (Misorairo)". In Japanese, "Misorairo" is a respectful name for the sky; it is a bright and clear blue like the autumn sky and calms your mind.
 The old clock on the WAKO tower has the same colour. 
IMO, the dial has a bit of "Kirazuri" of SBGA387. It also shows a bit of Mackerel Sky or Scaly clouds.


----------



## MojoS

Apologies if already posted, but a new quartz ‘sky flake’ has appeared in 34mm.

looks pretty, but ascommentors have said - the pricing of the quartz model seems more expensive than the spring drive original on the second hand market. Obviously the size is a factor, but I can’t imagine too many modern GS fans going for this smaller edition over the original.

Images taken from Fratello.


















Introducing: The New Grand Seiko SBGX353 Skyflake


✓ Today we take a first look at the new Grand Seiko SBGX353 Skyflake ✓ A 34mm quartz successor to the 2019 original ✓ Check it out here! ✓




www.fratellowatches.com


----------



## jmariorebelo

MojoS said:


> Apologies if already posted, but a new quartz ‘sky flake’ has appeared in 34mm.
> 
> looks pretty, but ascommentors have said - the pricing of the quartz model seems more expensive than the spring drive original on the second hand market. Obviously the size is a factor, but I can’t imagine too many modern GS fans going for this smaller edition over the original.
> 
> Images taken from Fratello.
> 
> View attachment 16913964
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Introducing: The New Grand Seiko SBGX353 Skyflake
> 
> 
> ✓ Today we take a first look at the new Grand Seiko SBGX353 Skyflake ✓ A 34mm quartz successor to the 2019 original ✓ Check it out here! ✓
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fratellowatches.com


Oh my that's impeccable.


----------



## 123joe

MojoS said:


> Apologies if already posted, but a new quartz ‘sky flake’ has appeared in 34mm.
> 
> looks pretty, but ascommentors have said - the pricing of the quartz model seems more expensive than the spring drive original on the second hand market. Obviously the size is a factor, but I can’t imagine too many modern GS fans going for this smaller edition over the original.


Well, RRP is still quite a bit lower than their special-dial mechanical or SD watches. I assume the demand for the SBGP017 surpassed their expectations, so they figured they can charge a bit more than before.

In terms of size, as with previous 34mm watches, I think it's aimed as a unisex watch, and should fit men and women nicely. So even if they have slightly less interest from men, they are probably gambling to get more women into their watches.

But yea, the times of getting a GS quartz watch for ~2k new from an AD that is constructed and finished almost as good as the absolute top of the range mechanical watches seems to be gone.


----------



## MojoS

123joe said:


> Well, RRP is still quite a bit lower than their special-dial mechanical or SD watches. I assume the demand for the SBGP017 surpassed their expectations, so they figured they can charge a bit more than before.
> 
> In terms of size, as with previous 34mm watches, I think it's aimed as a unisex watch, and should fit men and women nicely. So even if they have slightly less interest from men, they are probably gambling to get more women into their watches.
> 
> But yea, the times of getting a GS quartz watch for ~2k new from an AD that is constructed and finished almost as good as the absolute top of the range mechanical watches seems to be gone.


Here in the UK their general production 3 hander 9F quarts offerings (black/white/champagne/blue - e.g SBGX261) are still ~2k, and they’ll be sticking around in shops for a while I imagine. How often does GS tend to revamp their existing core line? Outside of the special edition colour ways, the core quartz lines appears to have remained pretty static over the last few years - including the price, which I’m worried won’t be the case much longer.


----------



## 123joe

MojoS said:


> Here in the UK their general production 3 hander 9F quarts offerings (black/white/champagne/blue - e.g SBGX261) are still ~2k, and they’ll be sticking around in shops for a while I imagine. How often does GS tend to revamp their existing core line? Outside of the special edition colour ways, the core quartz lines appears to have remained pretty static over the last few years - including the price, which I’m worried won’t be the case much longer.


In fact, I just bought an SBGX263 from an AD. However, in most markets, only the black or black and champagne models are sold. The AD told me that he's unsure if they'll stick around for much longer. 

If you look at the sizes & prices, almost all GS are now either 39mm and bigger, or sth like 34-35mm. The SBGX261 series at 37mm is right between. Also, as you said, it's significantly cheaper than other models.

Wonder if they will stop this model and reissue it as a 38mm model, and $500 more expensive.


----------



## MojoS

123joe said:


> In fact, I just bought an SBGX263 from an AD. However, in most markets, only the black or black and champagne models are sold. The AD told me that he's unsure if they'll stick around for much longer.
> 
> If you look at the sizes & prices, almost all GS are now either 39mm and bigger, or sth like 34-35mm. The SBGX261 series at 37mm is right between. Also, as you said, it's significantly cheaper than other models.
> 
> Wonder if they will stop this model and reissue it as a 38mm model, and $500 more expensive.


Thanks for the info, might have to finally make some space in the collection for one before they move away. Really hard to beat value wise. I hope you are enjoying it!


----------



## Gebbeth

34mm. To me, that's an odd size if they are shooting for a unisex model. Seems particularly targeted to women?

I want to say it looks nice, but there is a part of me that thinks GS is saturating the market with models to the point where their key distinguishing factor, the dials, are starting to blend into each other now.

I'd really love for them to concentrate on a model that they can iterate on, perhaps improve accessories like bracelets, thickness/thinness, etc.


----------



## kyle1234c

Lovely, but quite frankly an insane price for 34mm of stainless steel with a battery inside


----------



## CalTex

kyle1234c said:


> Lovely, but quite frankly an insane price for 34mm of stainless steel with a battery inside


Agreed, as someone who likes small watches this is great but the price point is too high.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## MojoS

Gebbeth said:


> 34mm. To me, that's an odd size if they are shooting for a unisex model. Seems particularly targeted to women?
> 
> I want to say it looks nice, but there is a part of me that thinks GS is saturating the market with models to the point where their key distinguishing factor, the dials, are starting to blend into each other now.
> 
> I'd really love for them to concentrate on a model that they can iterate on, perhaps improve accessories like bracelets, thickness/thinness, etc.


I %100 agree, I know they are slight deviations of course - but even just looking at the new US exclusive ‘Soko’ editions, the sea of clouds, the original sky flake and now this, the same colour and similar dial has been spread fairly thinly.

hey,atleast it means the buyer gets to decide on their favourite case shape to go along with their dial


----------



## Gebbeth

MojoS said:


> I %100 agree, I know they are slight deviations of course - but even just looking at the new US exclusive ‘Soko’ editions, the sea of clouds, the original sky flake and now this, the same colour and similar dial has been spread fairly thinly.
> 
> hey,atleast it means the buyer gets to decide on their favourite case shape to go along with their dial


GS might think about doing what Rolex does in that Rolex tweaks its core models, adding or reducing case sizes and lug width.....40mm to 36mm and stuff like that. I'm not saying do exactly what Rolex does because I think Rolex takes it too far, but there's gotta be a middle ground, right?


----------



## One-Seventy

Gebbeth said:


> Also, justify pin sleeves all you want, but that's just not gonna cut it. Get some screws on your bracelets, especially the divers and other tool watches.


? Even their cheaper 9F lines all have barrels with a screw at each end, although these are all steel versions. Perhaps the Ti models are different. 

FWIW Patek Phillipe switched from screwed pins to collared pins several years ago. Screwed pins don't offer much of an advantage, can back out, fuse and collect damage. Looking at the demand for PP, doesn't appear to have upset anyone...


----------



## Gebbeth

One-Seventy said:


> ? Even their cheaper 9F lines all have barrels with a screw at each end, although these are all steel versions. Perhaps the Ti models are different.
> 
> FWIW Patek Phillipe switched from screwed pins to collared pins several years ago. Screwed pins don't offer much of an advantage, can back out, fuse and collect damage. Looking at the demand for PP, doesn't appear to have upset anyone...


I doubt people shopping PP decide not to get one because of pins and sleeves on the bracelet. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer screws. That's logical fallacy. In any case, it's not a choice anymore whether you want screws or not on a PP.

From what I heard at the time around 2012 for the Nautilus at least, its was because the screw heads were breaking when bracelets were getting adjusted. That seems like a Patek problem, not a screws vs pin problem. I have never had a screw head break on any of my watch bracelets or had any back out. I follow the directions. Heat the bracelet, remove screw, reattached bracelet with a little watch Loctite on the screw when reassembling.

Screws, if made well, are just stronger and a better match for watch bracelets, especially sports watched like divers. I have bent pins, or pins have broken, when trying to adjust watch bracelets with pins and sleeves.

I get it though. Pin and sleeves technology is old and well understood. For lighter, more delicate, watch bracelets that are not expected to see much hard wear, pins and sleeves may make sense. But it's not the link system of choice for sports watch bracelets.


----------



## Gebbeth

As for titanium bracelets, Sinn uses screws with hex heads on their titanium bracelets. Even Zelos uses screws on their titanium watch bracelets. So I don't think it's a titanium thing. It might be for GS, but other manufacturers seem to be able to do it.


----------



## 123joe

MojoS said:


> Thanks for the info, might have to finally make some space in the collection for one before they move away. Really hard to beat value wise. I hope you are enjoying it!


As I said, heard it from the AD, so of course you always have to wonder what they say to sell you the watch. But at least it sounds plausible.
It's really a great watch, still so many new aspects to discover after owning it for a while. I was also debating between the black and champagne dial, but glad I went with champagne in the end.


----------



## One-Seventy

Gebbeth said:


> I doubt people shopping PP decide not to get one because of pins and sleeves on the bracelet. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer screws. That's logical fallacy. In any case, it's not a choice anymore whether you want screws or not on a PP.


I didn't present any logic at all. All I did was suggest that if a company like Patek is using pin and collar systems, it can't be _that _bad. My comment about demand was tongue-in-cheek (in reality no-one cares what fixings they use; I bet most of them have never even been sized).

Anyway, I'll keep enjoying my GS with its screwed-pin bracelet adjustment (to the extent I care anyway; I don't add or remove links regularly). You sound upset about their choice to use pins and collars in the titanium versions, so I'd probably just stay away from GS if you want something titanium, and look at Tudor, Zelos etc.


----------



## Gebbeth

One-Seventy said:


> I didn't present any logic at all. All I did was suggest that if a company like Patek is using pin and collar systems, it can't be _that _bad. My comment about demand was tongue-in-cheek (in reality no-one cares what fixings they use; I bet most of them have never even been sized).
> 
> Anyway, I'll keep enjoying my GS with its screwed-pin bracelet adjustment (to the extent I care anyway; I don't add or remove links regularly). You sound upset about their choice to use pins and collars in the titanium versions, so I'd probably just stay away from GS if you want something titanium, and look at Tudor, Zelos etc.


I have a Night Birch, which other than being +17spd out of the box and had to be sent back in order to get it examined and adjusted (6-8 weeks), the pins and sleeves they use are a pain to deal with. The sleeves kept coming out when I had to remove links to get the bracelet adjusted and almost lost one in the process.

That's why I'm upset and also why I think GS needs to step up its game, especialy with bracelets and their construction.


----------



## Tpp3975

One-Seventy said:


> ? Even their cheaper 9F lines all have barrels with a screw at each end, although these are all steel versions. Perhaps the Ti models are different.
> 
> FWIW Patek Phillipe switched from screwed pins to collared pins several years ago. Screwed pins don't offer much of an advantage, can back out, fuse and collect damage. Looking at the demand for PP, doesn't appear to have upset anyone...


The titanium models use pins and collars. Infuriating.


----------



## duckmcf

Tpp3975 said:


> The titanium models use pins and collars. Infuriating.


I’m as OCD as it comes, but I just can’t get worked up about pins and collars.

Unless you have a perfectly fitting screwdriver it’s all too easy to screw up the screw head, so I’ve never resized my Rolex. Actually, in the ~20 years I’ve owned it I’ve only had one link added to it, and that was last year during its service, but then that watch has miles of micro-adjust.

All of my other bracelet watches use split pins or pins & collars, and I’ve resized them all. Sure it was a PITA when I resized the first one with a spring bar tool. I bought a bracelet pin extraction tool (from memory it was around 10 bucks) and it’s been no worries ever since.

Anyway, so long as there’s at least some micro-adjust it’s not like you’d be adding or removing links at every change of season…

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## Gebbeth

duckmcf said:


> I’m as OCD as it comes, but I just can’t get worked up about pins and collars.
> 
> Unless you have a perfectly fitting screwdriver it’s all too easy to screw up the screw head, so I’ve never resized my Rolex. Actually, in the ~20 years I’ve owned it I’ve only had one link added to it, and that was last year during its service, but then that watch has miles of micro-adjust.
> 
> All of my other bracelet watches use split pins or pins & collars, and I’ve resized them all. Sure it was a PITA when I resized the first one with a spring bar tool. I bought a bracelet pin extraction tool (from memory it was around 10 bucks) and it’s been no worries ever since.
> 
> Anyway, so long as there’s at least some micro-adjust it’s not like you’d be adding or removing links at every change of season…
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel


There is no micro adjust on GS bracelets, at least the ones they put on the Birch series watches. None.


----------



## duckmcf

Gebbeth said:


> There is no micro adjust on GS bracelets, at least the ones they put on the Birch series watches. None.


…and that’s the problem, not the pins and collars…


----------



## Tanker G1

I have over 100 watches including 7 GS and I strongly prefer pins and collars. I think some of you in the other camp are either old and blind or just have zero patience.


----------



## Gebbeth

duckmcf said:


> …and that’s the problem, not the pins and collars…


No, that just exacerbates the problem.


----------



## Tpp3975

duckmcf said:


> I’m as OCD as it comes, but I just can’t get worked up about pins and collars.
> 
> Unless you have a perfectly fitting screwdriver it’s all too easy to screw up the screw head, so I’ve never resized my Rolex. Actually, in the ~20 years I’ve owned it I’ve only had one link added to it, and that was last year during its service, but then that watch has miles of micro-adjust.
> 
> All of my other bracelet watches use split pins or pins & collars, and I’ve resized them all. Sure it was a PITA when I resized the first one with a spring bar tool. I bought a bracelet pin extraction tool (from memory it was around 10 bucks) and it’s been no worries ever since.
> 
> Anyway, so long as there’s at least some micro-adjust it’s not like you’d be adding or removing links at every change of season…
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel


Fair enough. But GS doesn't offer micro adjust either.


----------



## duckmcf

Gebbeth said:


> No, that just exacerbates the problem.


The way I see it, the lack of micro-adjust is the root cause of the problem, not the pins and collars.

If GS provided around an inch of on-the-fly micro-adjust you wouldn’t care less about the pins and collars. They’d be set once (by the AD) and you’d be set for as long as you owned the watch.

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## chas58

duckmcf said:


> Unless you have a perfectly fitting screwdriver it’s all too easy to screw up the screw head, so I’ve never resized my Rolex. Actually, in the ~20 years I’ve owned it I’ve only had one link added to it, and that was last year during its service, but then that watch has miles of micro-adjust.


The true answer to that is to use torx screw to solve that problem. Some companies like Damasko use torx and supply the tool to let you do it themselves.

GS screws are probably too tiny to do this. I have a perfectly fitting screwdriver, but GS should really include one of these with their watches. Some of those screws are tiny.


----------



## duckmcf

chas58 said:


> The true answer to that is to use torx screw to solve that problem. Some companies like Damasko use torx and supply the tool to let you do it themselves.
> 
> GS screws are probably too tiny to do this. I have a perfectly fitting screwdriver, but GS should really include one of these with their watches. Some of those screws are tiny.


From memory, Rolex uses a single micro bolt (for want of a better word) that feeds into one side of the link and screws into threads that are cut into the other side link. As you say a Torx head on a bolt would be much better than a pair of micro flat head screws that lock in an internal pin…

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## Gebbeth

So Sinn uses hex screws where you need two Allen wrench type tools to remove a screw...one to hold the bolt in place while the other one is used to unscrew the bold. Not that much more difficult to use except you need two tools to unscrew a link.

Rolex and I think the majority of screw based bracelet users use the one way bolt, where one side of the link holds the threads that match to the end of the bolt. Here, you only need 1 screwdriver to remove a link. However, there are 2 drawbacks.

One, is that the links look asymmetrical, with one side either just showing a small bolt hole, or it being completely closed, and other side showing the screw head. It doesn't look as "clean" to me.

Second, with the closed end link, there is a greater chance the bolt will back out. As the links flex, they create a rotational force around the screw. Over time, this can slowly unscrew the bolt. That's why jewelers sometimes use Loctite to keep the bold in place.

In the first design, the kind Sinn uses, the one end of the bolt is not held in place by the actual link, but by a nut. There is more room for movement/flex of the link and less chance the rotational force will actually cause the bolt itself to rotate and back out of the screw.

Anyway, I find both screwed-in methods lead to a more secure link between links in the bracelet, and an easier adjustment method for bracelets.


----------



## twgxiong

New and upcoming Grand Seiko watches


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Gebbeth said:


> I have a Night Birch, which other than being +17spd out of the box and had to be sent back in order to get it examined and adjusted (6-8 weeks), the pins and sleeves they use are a pain to deal with. The sleeves kept coming out when I had to remove links to get the bracelet adjusted and almost lost one in the process.
> 
> That's why I'm upset and also why I think GS needs to step up its game, especialy with bracelets and their construction.


Good luck. My hi beat white birch came back after 2 months + and still runs +14spd (before it was over 20). Many people have similar experiences (see white birch thread here).


----------



## bibbibart

twgxiong said:


> New and upcoming Grand Seiko watches


+1

I admire the technical discussion but please move it to a separate thread.


----------



## One-Seventy

twgxiong said:


> New and upcoming Grand Seiko watches


Lol, this is the internet!


----------



## lehippi

I'm pretty sure the criticism of PP switching back to pins and collars is that it's a cheaper way to manufacture a bracelet, not necessarily a less secure way.


----------



## quasitime

Any speculation of interesting releases this fall/winter?


----------



## Gebbeth

quasitime said:


> Any speculation of interesting releases this fall/winter?


Another "limited edition," 40mm, 13mm thick, watch with a nice dial, and crappy bracelet.

And I'm actually a big GS fan. Own 2.


----------



## Goyo924

quasitime said:


> Any speculation of interesting releases this fall/winter?


I would expect the SLGH019 to be announced some time in the next month before the next US GS9 event.


----------



## GrandWatcher

quasitime said:


> Any speculation of interesting releases this fall/winter?


Randomly choose from a hat one of each: case type (44GS, 62GS etc), dial colour, movement (spring, quartz, auto, high-beat), dial pattern, sport / non-sport, size (36.5mm, 37-38mm, 40mm, 40mm+), nature theme or element (earth, wind, water, fire, season, tree, bird), bracelet / strap, PR / no PR, caseback (closed, open, open with lion), LE or non-LE. .. and you have your next GS watch.

For example:

*Grand Seiko Aki*
Quartz + 44GS + 36.5mm + Orange-Red + Rock Pattern (i.e. SBGA413 Spring) with a closed caseback and limited to the US with only 123 pieces available.
Aki, the beauty of falling foliage in mid-Autumn. The textured dial is an intense orange-red to capture the magic of viewing the maple leaves captured in the silhouette of the sun. To look closely at the dial is to be transported to this profound moment.


----------



## Mbappe

GrandWatcher said:


> Randomly choose from a hat one of each: case type (44GS, 62GS etc), dial colour, movement (spring, quartz, auto, high-beat), dial pattern, sport / non-sport, size (36.5mm, 37-38mm, 40mm, 40mm+), nature theme or element (earth, wind, water, fire, season, tree, bird), bracelet / strap, PR / no PR... and you have your next GS watch.
> 
> For example:
> 
> *Grand Seiko Aki*
> Quartz + 44GS + 36.5mm + Orange-Red + Rock Pattern (i.e. SBGA413 Spring)
> Aki, the beauty of falling foliage in mid-Autumn. The textured dial is an intense orange-red to capture the magic of viewing the maple leaves captured in the silhouette of the sun. To look closely at the dial is to be transported to this profound moment.


You know what, that actually sounds like a decent release 🤣


----------



## SKYWATCH007

GrandWatcher said:


> Randomly choose from a hat one of each: case type (44GS, 62GS etc), dial colour, movement (spring, quartz, auto, high-beat), dial pattern, sport / non-sport, size (36.5mm, 37-38mm, 40mm, 40mm+), nature theme or element (earth, wind, water, fire, season, tree, bird), bracelet / strap, PR / no PR... and you have your next GS watch.
> 
> For example:
> 
> *Grand Seiko Aki*
> Quartz + 44GS + 36.5mm + Orange-Red + Rock Pattern (i.e. SBGA413 Spring)
> Aki, the beauty of falling foliage in mid-Autumn. The textured dial is an intense orange-red to capture the magic of viewing the maple leaves captured in the silhouette of the sun. To look closely at the dial is to be transported to this profound moment.


I would be all over this Aki! Closed caseback with the lion instead of laser lion


----------



## GrandWatcher

SKYWATCH007 said:


> I would be all over this Aki! Closed caseback with the lion instead of laser lion


Yes! Forgot the caseback options and Limited Edition vs. Non Limited

Closed with lion, open (plain), open with lion.

The Aki will be released with a closed caseback, limited to 123 pieces.


----------



## GrandWatcher

Introducing the Grand Seiko Aki (SBGP018). (_This is a mock-up, please don't sue me GS 😅)._


----------



## 54B

GrandWatcher said:


> Introducing the Grand Seiko Aki (SBGP018). (_This is a mock-up, please don't sue me GS 😅)._
> View attachment 16933121​



Looks amazing! I would definitely get this if only it were 37mm.


----------



## Xhantos

54B said:


> Looks amazing! I would definitely get this if only it were 37mm.


Ditto! But first I need to see the dial color in real life, I'd prefer it more subtle than it looks but definitely not too subtle.


----------



## ink3027

Where can I order the Aki? 😂


----------



## MojoS

GrandWatcher said:


> Introducing the Grand Seiko Aki (SBGP018). (_This is a mock-up, please don't sue me GS 😅)._
> View attachment 16933121​


That would sell like hotcakes. How dare you do that all of us!


----------



## GrandWatcher

In true GS fashion the dial colour is more subdued, less orange-red, more salmon. No micro adjustment will be available. Despite the amount of innovation within Japan, they have yet to create a solution. 

You have to see it in the metal to appreciate the craftmanship as the promotional and AD photos do not do it justice.

Oh, and the lug width will be 21.5mm. Just because.


----------



## Spytap

GrandWatcher said:


> In true GS fashion the dial colour is more subdued, less orange-red, more salmon. No micro adjustment will be available. Despite the amount of innovation within Japan, they have yet to create a solution.
> 
> You have to see it in the metal to appreciate the craftmanship as the promotional and AD photos do not do it justice.
> 
> Oh, and the lug width will be 21.5mm. Just because.


I appreciate you keeping to the tradition of poorly CGIed renders on the site and in press photos. GS and Omega, I’m looking at you, for some unknowable reason.


----------



## ink3027

GrandWatcher said:


> In true GS fashion the dial colour is more subdued, less orange-red, more salmon. No micro adjustment will be available. Despite the amount of innovation within Japan, they have yet to create a solution.
> 
> You have to see it in the metal to appreciate the craftmanship as the promotional and AD photos do not do it justice.
> 
> Oh, and the lug width will be 21.5mm. Just because.


The lug width comment got me 😂


----------



## Gebbeth

GrandWatcher said:


> In true GS fashion the dial colour is more subdued, less orange-red, more salmon. No micro adjustment will be available. Despite the amount of innovation within Japan, they have yet to create a solution.
> 
> You have to see it in the metal to appreciate the craftmanship as the promotional and AD photos do not do it justice.
> 
> Oh, and the lug width will be 21.5mm. Just because.


The funny thing is that when GS does come out with some kind of micro-adjust on their bracelets, they will market it as "Well, we were not satisfied with the solutions out there, and because at Grand Seiko, we seek perfection, we decided not to implement a micro adjust until we found that perfect solution. And here it is.....after 30-years of development."

And it turns out to be a variation of the Brogioli clasp.


----------



## duckmcf

Gebbeth said:


> The funny thing is that when GS does come out with some kind of micro-adjust on their bracelets, they will market it as "Well, we were not satisfied with the solutions out there, and because at Grand Seiko, we seek perfection, we decided not to implement a micro adjust until we found that perfect solution. And here it is.....after 30-years of development."
> 
> And it turns out to be a variation of the Brogioli clasp.


Is it just me, or is anyone else completely fine with the good ol’ manual micro adjust? 

Sure, if I ever get a watch with on-the-fly micro adjust I’ll probably like the ease of adjustment, but most of the on-the-fly solutions that I’ve seen add thickness to the clasp.

For me, if it’s a choice between a thin a clasp or on-the-fly adjustment, I’ll take the thin clasp every time…

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## GrandWatcher

Definitely not as bad as people make it out to be. For GS it is just a known 'fault' without a solution. It stands out in almost all of their watches. No tapering on 22mm bracelets, end link-lug gaps, micro-adjustment, quick change system... Just been no adoption of any options. 

Bracelet, sizing and fit issues are abundant in other brands too. Tudor for example (non-T clasp models e.g. BB58) get a lot of criticism for the faux rivets and lack of half-links. The clasp is also bulky and sits across the entire wrist.

The Cartier clasp is also horrid and I have lost skin trying to get a tigher fit.


----------



## One-Seventy

GrandWatcher said:


> Definitely not as bad as people make it out to be. For GS it is just a known 'fault' without a solution. It stands out in almost all of their watches. No tapering on 22mm bracelets


They do taper (down to 20mm, which is quite common). It's obviously a design decision, but not a fault, and won't be "solved" as such, if it's a matter of personal preference.


----------



## Gebbeth

duckmcf said:


> Is it just me, or is anyone else completely fine with the good ol’ manual micro adjust?
> 
> Sure, if I ever get a watch with on-the-fly micro adjust I’ll probably like the ease of adjustment, but most of the on-the-fly solutions that I’ve seen add thickness to the clasp.
> 
> For me, if it’s a choice between a thin a clasp or on-the-fly adjustment, I’ll take the thin clasp every time…
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel


There is no "manual" adjust on the GS bracelets, or at least a big chunk of them, like all the Birch models. You can only remove actual links. We're not even talking on the fly. You literally have to remove/add a link.


----------



## duckmcf

Gebbeth said:


> There is no "manual" adjust on the GS bracelets, or at least a big chunk of them, like all the Birch models. You can only remove actual links. We're not even talking on the fly. You literally have to remove/add a link.


The GS dive watches (and some Sport models) have manual micro adjust (as well as a ratchet extension for a dive suit in the case of the dive models). My point being that GS isn’t philosophically opposed to manual micro adjust. I have to take it that providing no micro adjust at all is a GS design decision for the non-sport models, which is a shame, but it’s obviously their call…


----------



## BarracksSi

duckmcf said:


> The GS dive watches (and some Sport models) have manual micro adjust (as well as a ratchet extension for a dive suit in the case of the dive models). My point being that GS isn’t philosophically opposed to manual micro adjust. I have to take it that providing no micro adjust at all is a GS design decision for the non-sport models, which is a shame, but it’s obviously their call…
> 
> View attachment 16943984


I’d say that this is less of a “micro adjust to get the exact fit for your wrist in varying weather conditions and seasonal temperatures” …

…and more of a “resize big enough to fit over a wetsuit or jacket without having to swap out the bracelet for a traditional tang buckle strap”.


----------



## duckmcf

BarracksSi said:


> I’d say that this is less of a “micro adjust to get the exact fit for your wrist in varying weather conditions and seasonal temperatures” …
> 
> …and more of a “resize big enough to fit over a wetsuit or jacket without having to swap out the bracelet for a traditional tang buckle strap”.


The dive models have both micro and dive suit adjustment. The Sport models (that have micro adjust) don’t have the dive extension.

This web site is a nice reference for GS models with micro adjust (up to 2021): Every Grand Seiko with a Micro-Adjust Bracelet


----------



## Gebbeth

duckmcf said:


> The GS dive watches (and some Sport models) have manual micro adjust (as well as a ratchet extension for a dive suit in the case of the dive models). My point being that GS isn’t philosophically opposed to manual micro adjust. I have to take it that providing no micro adjust at all is a GS design decision for the non-sport models, which is a shame, but it’s obviously their call…
> 
> View attachment 16943984


Definitely their dive watches have this feature, BUT, look at that clap. To me, it's a hot mess. It looks like stamped materials everywhere and it looks thick and exposed. I know GS can do better, I'm just puzzled why they decided this was the direction they wanted to go.


----------



## mitch57

Gebbeth said:


> Definitely their dive watches have this feature, BUT, look at that clap. To me, it's a hot mess. It looks like stamped materials everywhere and it looks thick and exposed. I know GS can do better, I'm just puzzled why they decided this was the direction they wanted to go.


Looks to me like all they did is take the same bracelet's they use on Seiko watches and stamp "GS" on the clasp. Cheap pop metal and it really makes the bracelet look like an after thought. Not to mention how it degrades the craftsmanship of the rest of the watch. I quit buying GS watches because GS does not offer bracelet adjustments on any of their watches except sport and diver models as well as GS's ever increasing prices that are now selling for more than most other higher end brands.

If I'm going to pay close to 10K or more for a watch it certainly won't be GS at that price point.


----------



## duckmcf

Gebbeth said:


> Definitely their dive watches have this feature, BUT, look at that clap. To me, it's a hot mess. It looks like stamped materials everywhere and it looks thick and exposed. I know GS can do better, I'm just puzzled why they decided this was the direction they wanted to go.


I totally agree, it is a mess, but I actually like pressed steel clasps. 

The best (most comfortable) bracelet of any watch I’ve ever owned has a pressed steel clasp and about an inch of manual micro adjust.

These days the luxury watch buying public demand CNC clasps and on-the-fly micro-adjust. While these features add a feeling of luxury and quality to the watch they also make the clasp thicker.

When I run a, “features and benefits“, ruler over CNC clasps and on-the-fly micro adjust, they just don’t stack up against pressed steel and manual adjust, at least for me.

Anyway, I know others will disagree, but I’d be happy if new GS releases just keep their clasps elegantly thin and add 3 or 4 holes of manual micro adjust.

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## Gebbeth

duckmcf said:


> I totally agree, it is a mess, but I actually like pressed steel clasps.
> 
> The best (most comfortable) bracelet of any watch I’ve ever owned has a pressed steel clasp and about an inch of manual micro adjust.
> 
> These days the luxury watch buying public demand CNC clasps and on-the-fly micro-adjust. While these features add a feeling of luxury and quality to the watch they also make the clasp thicker.
> 
> When I run a, “features and benefits“, ruler over CNC clasps and on-the-fly micro adjust, they just don’t stack up against pressed steel and manual adjust, at least for me.
> 
> Anyway, I know others will disagree, but I’d be happy if new GS releases just keep their clasps elegantly thin and add 3 or 4 holes of manual micro adjust.
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel


The flat, stamped clasps are comfortable because of their thinness, and I get it. But stamped parts are....well...mostly cheap. They are stamped because they are cheap to make and can be made over and over again in volume. The thinness is really a secondary aspect of the efficiency of design.

They are also somewhat fragile. They can bend very easily and the hinges can get loose and break. All in all, it's not a very "luxury" feel which is why a company going upstream like GS can't really do this. They need milled clasps with an integrated and aesthetically pleasing locking and micro-adjust features.

Again, my opinion.


----------



## duckmcf

Gebbeth said:


> The flat, stamped clasps are comfortable because of their thinness, and I get it. But stamped parts are....well...mostly cheap. They are stamped because they are cheap to make and can be made over and over again in volume. The thinness is really a secondary aspect of the efficiency of design.
> 
> They are also somewhat fragile. They can bend very easily and the hinges can get loose and break. All in all, it's not a very "luxury" feel which is why a company going upstream like GS can't really do this. They need milled clasps with an integrated and aesthetically pleasing locking and micro-adjust features.
> 
> Again, my opinion.


I get what you’re saying, and either way the horse has bolted as there’s no way any brand with even a hint of luxury is going back to pressed steel clasps.

Rolex started using pressed steel clasps, I don’t know, maybe in the 1930’s, and stopped using them in the 2000’s. I’ve been on various watch forums since the late ‘90’s and in all that time I’ve never read about Rolex clasps failing and watches smashing on the ground. I’m sure it’s happened somewhere along the line, but it’s not anything like a widespread issue.

I guess what I’m saying is that in my view:

1. There’s a big difference between pressed clasps made from Chinesium and those made from high grade stainless steel.
2. The requirement for CNC clasps has more to do with marketing than an actual deficiency with their pressed steel Predecessors.
3. If I had a choice between a thin pressed steel clasp or a thicker CNC clasp, you know which one I’d take, but I fully acknowledge that I’m possibly the only one that would.

Anyway, as I say, the horse has bolted…

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## One-Seventy

Any new and upcoming Grand Seiko watches?


----------



## BarracksSi

duckmcf said:


> Rolex started using pressed steel clasps, I don’t know, maybe in the 1930’s, and stopped using them in the 2000’s. I’ve been on various watch forums since the late ‘90’s and in all that time I’ve never read about Rolex clasps failing and watches smashing on the ground. I’m sure it’s happened somewhere along the line, but it’s not anything like a widespread issue.


Along with that, I could swear that I've seen instances on WUS of machined clasps developing cracks.

Between cracked clasps (though very rare, I'm sure) and screwed pins backing out, I don't think there's anything wrong with stamped clasps and push pins in practical, day-to-day livability terms.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

BarracksSi said:


> Along with that, I could swear that I've seen instances on WUS of machined clasps developing cracks.
> 
> Between cracked clasps (though very rare, I'm sure) and screwed pins backing out, I don't think there's anything wrong with stamped clasps and push pins in practical, day-to-day livability terms.


Any NEW GRAND SEIKO coming????????????????


----------



## Gebbeth

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Any NEW GRAND SEIKO coming????????????????


Take it easy. No, not that I've heard of. Perhaps this is why the discussion is wavering a bit. I don't think this is a bad thing.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

Gebbeth said:


> Take it easy. No, not that I've heard of. Perhaps this is why the discussion is wavering a bit. I don't think this is a bad thing.


It's just boring reading about clasps and s hit page after page lol...I don't mind a little bit.


----------



## duckmcf

SKYWATCH007 said:


> It's just boring reading about clasps and s hit page after page lol...I don't mind a little bit.


Fair enough. I do tend to beat dead horses longer than most…

If anyone‘s interested, this was a good clasp thread from last year.
Grand Seiko & Clasps - What’s going on?

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## Plus 9Time

No one seems to have posted the SBGE293. This is a 30 piece LE for Takashimaya Yokohama with the blue dial reflecting the port side city.


----------



## One-Seventy

Plus 9Time said:


> No one seems to have posted the SBGE293. This is a 30 piece LE for Takashimaya Yokohama with the blue dial reflecting the port side city.
> View attachment 16951337
> 
> View attachment 16951338
> 
> 
> View attachment 16951339
> View attachment 16951340


Now that's lovely. I wonder if a gold GMT hand wouldn't have gone amiss, though.


----------



## MojoS

One-Seventy said:


> Now that's lovely. I wonder if a gold GMT hand wouldn't have gone amiss, though.


I’d have gone the opposite direction and had the GS logo/text in bright white just like the GMT hand and 6 o’clock text.

Nothing in the promo render evokes the need for gold - the White Skyline against the water/sky would make more sense to me. (Though I think Hodinkee did a monochromatic blue dial / white dial furniture version, just without a texture)


----------



## egwatchfan

GrandWatcher said:


> In true GS fashion the dial colour is more subdued, less orange-red, more salmon. No micro adjustment will be available. Despite the amount of innovation within Japan, they have yet to create a solution.
> 
> You have to see it in the metal to appreciate the craftmanship as the promotional and AD photos do not do it justice.
> 
> Oh, and the lug width will be 21.5mm. Just because.


Dude you literally just made me spit out my hot tea I was laughing so hard. Wife asked me why. I started explaining about 21.5mm….. nope. That was a mistake. 😂😂😂🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## Gebbeth

egwatchfan said:


> Dude you literally just made me spit out my hot tea I was laughing so hard. Wife asked me why. I started explaining about 21.5mm….. nope. That was a mistake. 😂😂😂🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


I dare GS to come up with a 23mm lug width. NO I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!


----------



## CFK-OB

Gebbeth said:


> I dare GS to come up with a 23mm lug width. NO I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!


Here you go...


----------



## Strokes1251

CFK-OB said:


> Here you go...
> View attachment 16957010


i want that watch so bad…


----------



## Gebbeth

I should have known.


----------



## NightScar

more SBGW to complete the season transitions

banto SBGW281


















boshu SGBW287


----------



## NightScar

*SBGY013 - The second chapter of "Omiwatari."








*


----------



## GrandWatcher

This is not new (another member posted a photo after Googling model numbers) but an official announcement / release by the GS9 Club today.

Grand Seiko Evolution 9 Hi-Beat 36000 "Mt. Iwate At Midnight" SLGH019


----------



## matthew P

….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….


----------



## GrandWatcher

Alas my last "Grand Seiko Aki" prediction did not come true. Right season (Autumn), theme (inspired by Autumn leaves) and similar colour (orange-red) but all other picks differ to the newly released Boshu.

For my next prediction:

*Grand Seiko Aonuma (SBGN022)*
Quartz GMT + Sport + 40mm + Cobalt Green + Radial with gold accent (GS logo and seconds hand) and a closed caseback.

At the foot of Mount Bandai (Fukushima Japan) is a cluster of volcanic lakes, formed when the mountain erupted to create Goshiki-numa or 'The Five Colored Lakes'. Bishamon-numa, Aka-numa, Benten-numa, Midoro-numa and Ao-numa. The eruption imparted mineral deposits to the Five Colored Lakes giving each of them their own delicate color. Aonuma is a beautiful blue-green colour that it cannot be thought of as something created by nature.


----------



## 123joe

guys, can you please stop putting your photoshop stuff here? Put it in a different thread if you feel so. It gets hard to dissect which releases actually are true, and what is someone else's imagination.


----------



## ieatfood

GrandWatcher said:


> *Grand Seiko Aonuma (SBGN022)*
> Quartz GMT + Sport + 40mm + Cobalt Green + Radial with gold accent (GS logo and seconds hand) and a closed caseback.
> 
> At the foot of Mount Bandai (Fukushima Japan) is a cluster of volcanic lakes, formed when the mountain erupted to create Goshiki-numa or 'The Five Colored Lakes'. Bishamon-numa, Aka-numa, Benten-numa, Midoro-numa and Ao-numa. The eruption imparted mineral deposits to the Five Colored Lakes giving each of them their own delicate color. Aonuma is a beautiful blue-green colour that it cannot be thought of as something created by nature.
> ​


This combination is absolutely gorgeous. I would buy one.

In all seriousness, has the new Omiwatari bracelet been done before? It looks great.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

ieatfood said:


> This combination is absolutely gorgeous. I would buy one.
> 
> In all seriousness, has the new Omiwatari bracelet been done before? It looks great.


At first glance it looks similar to the SBGK009:


----------



## 54B

ieatfood said:


> has the new Omiwatari bracelet been done before


The bracelet is new apparently. I was told by the GS Boutique that the SBGK009 bracelet wouldn't fit my SBGY007 (blue Omiwatari) but that the SBGY013 (white Omiwatari) bracelet would.

I think the SBGY013 will look spectacular and it seems to be a decent price. I was surprised to see that in the UK the SBGY013 is £150 cheaper than the SBGY007 despite having a bracelet rather than leather strap. The EU GS site goes the other way and lists the SBGY013 for EUR 200 more.


----------



## One-Seventy

GrandWatcher said:


> Alas my last "Grand Seiko Aki" prediction did not come true. Right season (Autumn), theme (inspired by Autumn leaves) and similar colour (orange-red) but all other picks differ to the newly released Boshu.
> 
> For my next prediction:
> 
> *Grand Seiko Aonuma (SBGN022)*
> Quartz GMT + Sport + 40mm + Cobalt Green + Radial with gold accent (GS logo and seconds hand) and a closed caseback.
> 
> At the foot of Mount Bandai (Fukushima Japan) is a cluster of volcanic lakes, formed when the mountain erupted to create Goshiki-numa or 'The Five Colored Lakes'. Bishamon-numa, Aka-numa, Benten-numa, Midoro-numa and Ao-numa. The eruption imparted mineral deposits to the Five Colored Lakes giving each of them their own delicate color. Aonuma is a beautiful blue-green colour that it cannot be thought of as something created by nature.
> 
> View attachment 16957607​


Oooooh. Green might be a bit 2021 (since all luxury watches are now basically fashion watches, having been co-opted by the fashion industry) but I like that mockup 

Perception now being reality since technology means we can make fake pictures more real than real ones, a mockup thread might not be a bad idea...


----------



## staplebox

Finally, some new watches to get this thread back on track. Can we now cut out all the unrelated BS and focus on the thread title, please. I follow this for new releases and the constant spamming sucks. 

That white Omiwatari is gorgeous. Maybe too elegant for me but it's a nice bracelet / dial / case shape combo. The red SBGW is very eye-catching, I don't think there are enough red watches out there, I may have to take a look at that one. 

The Evo9's are getting expensive at just over $10K, I like them more in the $7-9K range, but GS has been wanting to go upscale luxury in the US, so I guess this is what we are going to see.


----------



## JvTrinh

It looks like GS is following trends slowly with their simple 3-handers. They're creating a full spectrum of color, similar to Rolex's OP and Omega's Aqua Terras.


----------



## 54B

staplebox said:


> Can we now cut out all the unrelated BS and focus on the thread title, please. I follow this for new releases and the constant spamming sucks.


There's a nicer way of saying that. I enjoyed the effort of others' contributions.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Oh man -- my biggest turnoff with the original Omiwatari was the powder blue color. This one is like a more attainable dress Snowflake (considering the gold SBGY002).

Too many good options!


----------



## ChronoTraveler

GrandWatcher said:


> This is not new (another member posted a photo after Googling model numbers) but an official announcement / release by the GS9 Club today.
> 
> Grand Seiko Evolution 9 Hi-Beat 36000 "Mt. Iwate At Midnight" SLGH019


This looks terrific in renders, but I'm not sure about in real life. I believe the dial will suffer the same problems of the SBGK005 (considering it's the same texture and color), where it looks totally bland indoors and explodes under sunlight.


----------



## staplebox

ChronoTraveler said:


> I believe the dial will suffer the same problems of the SBGK005 (considering it's the same texture and color), where it looks totally bland indoors and explodes under sunlight.


I very much like dials that are different colors and textures in different lighting. I think it is something GS does on purpose. I haven't seen the Iwate in person though, so maybe it doesn't work well irl,


----------



## Tpp3975

Can we discuss the elephant in the room? What on earth is going on with GS pricing? $10,400 for a titanium 3 hander? WHAT! 3 years ago that watch would have listed at $6500 or so. Those MSRP's are higher than Rolex, Cartier, Zenith and many other comparable brands. Not looking to start a war over which watches are "better" and that GS finishing is leaps and bounds above these others. It is fine if you think so - but the value proposition is long gone here. I cannot imagine plunking down $11k after tax on this watch even if I loved it (which I do). Gorgeous watch. Too bad.


----------



## SKYWATCH007

GrandWatcher said:


> Alas my last "Grand Seiko Aki" prediction did not come true. Right season (Autumn), theme (inspired by Autumn leaves) and similar colour (orange-red) but all other picks differ to the newly released Boshu.
> 
> For my next prediction:
> 
> *Grand Seiko Aonuma (SBGN022)*
> Quartz GMT + Sport + 40mm + Cobalt Green + Radial with gold accent (GS logo and seconds hand) and a closed caseback.
> 
> At the foot of Mount Bandai (Fukushima Japan) is a cluster of volcanic lakes, formed when the mountain erupted to create Goshiki-numa or 'The Five Colored Lakes'. Bishamon-numa, Aka-numa, Benten-numa, Midoro-numa and Ao-numa. The eruption imparted mineral deposits to the Five Colored Lakes giving each of them their own delicate color. Aonuma is a beautiful blue-green colour that it cannot be thought of as something created by nature.
> 
> View attachment 16957607​


The narrative is the best part 😅 All jokes aside it looks great tho!


----------



## staplebox

Tpp3975 said:


> Can we discuss the elephant in the room? What on earth is going on with GS pricing? $10,400 for a titanium 3 hander? WHAT! 3 years ago that watch would have listed at $6500 or so. Those MSRP's are higher than Rolex, Cartier, Zenith and many other comparable brands. Not looking to start a war over which watches are "better" and that GS finishing is leaps and bounds above these others. It is fine if you think so - but the value proposition is long gone here. I cannot imagine plunking down $11k after tax on this watch even if I loved it (which I do). Gorgeous watch. Too bad.


Here is a good article from 2018 that describes GS's plan to move upmarket, this has been their plan. Whether it's a good plan or not, we'll see.


----------



## ts298

I will consider GS again next year when they're back to 25% off. These prices are nuts.


----------



## Tpp3975

staplebox said:


> Here is a good article from 2018 that describes GS's plan to move upmarket, this has been their plan. Whether it's a good plan or not, we'll see.


Thanks for sharing that. Well it’s not 2018 anymore but $10400 is more than $10000. I’ll wait to grab this one at 6k down the road. I’ve gone off topic anyway.


----------



## Gebbeth

Most GS will come down in price on the secondary market. Unfortunately for GS, their watches usually do not retain their retail price value.

I also have a problem with GS pricing nowadays. The SLGA015, while a beautiful diver, is not worth $11,500. I just don't see it. I think that is absurd. $7k to $8k and it's a killer.

On the new models, I will reiterate that GS cannot shoot itself in the foot with endless variations and limited editions. They have to slow their roll and create more exclusivity. The pricing complaint above and the confusing lineup are part and parcel of the same issue/problem in my opinion.


----------



## chas58

staplebox said:


> The Evo9's are getting expensive at just over $10K, I like them more in the $7-9K range, but GS has been wanting to go upscale luxury in the US, so I guess this is what we are going to see.


see sales chart below.  
Kinda like complaining the Submariner is 10K. GS is following the market



Tpp3975 said:


> Can we discuss the elephant in the room? What on earth is going on with GS pricing? $10,400 for a titanium 3 hander? WHAT! 3 years ago that watch would have listed at $6500 or so. ... but the value proposition is long gone here. I cannot imagine plunking down $11k after tax on this watch even if I loved it (which I do). Gorgeous watch. Too bad.


I do get miffed at the intermittent griping over this.

Value proposition is still there. Most all of the old GS "value" models are still available. Rolex has abandoned a lot of the entry level luxury market, leaving a vacuum. It would be dumb of brands like GS not to compete head to head with them while filling in the vacuum they left behind.

You don't have to buy the latest most expensive watch, there is plenty in their catalogue. But then...



Gebbeth said:


> I also have a problem with GS pricing nowadays. The SLGA015, while a beautiful diver, is not worth $11,500. I just don't see it. I think that is absurd. *$7k to $8k and it's a killer.*


well, yeah there is that. The new high beat is very innovative and what - the last new movement was Omega's co-axial? They certainly are charging a premium for watches with that movement (and the new Spring Drive).

Used of course, you can get these watches at the price you want (may have to wait ~1yr after release). Agreed, *$7k to $8k and it's a killer. *with some patience you can get them for 6K - not shabby.
(numbers below are asking prices and do not nesc reflect sales prices).


----------



## chas58

Bingo. Good call on that one!  



Goyo924 said:


> I would expect the SLGH019 to be announced some time in the next month before the next US GS9 event.


----------



## Tpp3975

chas58 said:


> see sales chart below.
> Kinda like complaining the Submariner is 10K. GS is following the market
> 
> 
> 
> I do get miffed at the intermittent griping over this.
> 
> Value proposition is still there. Most all of the old GS "value" models are still available. Rolex has abandoned a lot of the entry level luxury market, leaving a vacuum. It would be dumb of brands like GS not to compete head to head with them while filling in the vacuum they left behind.
> 
> You don't have to buy the latest most expensive watch, there is plenty in their catalogue. But then...
> 
> 
> 
> well, yeah there is that. The new high beat is very innovative and what - the last new movement was Omega's co-axial? They certainly are charging a premium for watches with that movement (and the new Spring Drive).
> 
> Used of course, you can get these watches at the price you want (may have to wait ~1yr after release). Agreed, *$7k to $8k and it's a killer. *with some patience you can get them for 6K - not shabby.
> (numbers below are asking prices and do not nesc reflect sales prices).
> View attachment 16958504


No reason to be miffed. A 10k sub will be worth 10k in a year and probably 20k in 10 years. A 10k GS will be worth 5 to 6 within 24 months. Not saying GS needs to be Rolex but it’s a hard sell at 10k. I wonder if anyone is actually buying these at msrp.


----------



## Loevhagen

Tpp3975 said:


> ...A 10k GS will be worth 5 to 6 within 24 months...


"Facts". LOL.

The shaman has spoken. So - a GS at 10K will looose 167 dollars every month the next 2 years? OK. Good to know.


----------



## Tpp3975

Loevhagen said:


> "Facts". LOL.
> 
> The shaman has spoken. So - a GS at 10K will looose 167 dollars every month the next 2 years? OK. Good to know.


You can laugh all you want. Feel free to test my methodology. Those nice 9k hi beat white birch’s are $6500 today. Grand Seiko has poor resale value. That is indeed a fact. Those 6500 ceramic gmts from 2020 are trading at 4000 today. The list goes on and on. An sbgh295 sold for $4600 last week. That was a $6500 new release US limited edition from earlier this year.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Personally, I only buy watches I intend to wear for life and pass on to the kids. Resale value has no bearing on whether I buy a piece.

Though it is satisfying to know the SBGK015 I bought is not only one of 300 but also selling at a $5-6k premium secondhand. All my limited pieces have a Chrono24 email notification set up so I can smile every time one is posted.


----------



## Loevhagen

Tpp3975 said:


> I’ve gone off topic anyway.


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> Personally, I only buy watches I intend to wear for life and pass on to the kids. Resale value has no bearing on whether I buy a piece.
> 
> Though it is satisfying to know the SBGK015 I bought is not only one of 300 but also selling at a $5-6k premium secondhand. All my limited pieces have a Chrono24 email notification set up so I can smile every time one is posted.


Selling or asking? Because there is a massive difference. And of course small run limited editions are a different story.


----------



## chas58

Tpp3975 said:


> No reason to be miffed. A 10k sub will be worth 10k in a year and probably 20k in 10 years. A 10k GS will be worth 5 to 6 within 24 months. Not saying GS needs to be Rolex but it’s a hard sell at 10k. I wonder if anyone is actually buying these at msrp.


yeah, we read that before, the old Rolex argument. We know how it goes:

If you want to impress others, flip a watch after a year or two, or want "value retention/ investment value" get rolex. 
If you want innovation, fit, finish, good movement, to stand out from the crowd get Omega/Tudor/Grand Seiko.
MSRP???
That is only for instagram darlings and hard to source watches. For others:
10% off at an AD or 30% off used.

But you know this already. 

Is that impressive movement on top of the base GS beauty worth a 3K premium? 
As a comparative value for a new watch that you will keep, yes for some people.
As a watch you will sell in 2 years or compared to Rolex - well that is up to you.


----------



## Tpp3975

chas58 said:


> yeah, we read that before, the old Rolex argument. We know how it goes:
> 
> If you want to impress others, flip a watch after a year or two, or want "value retention/ investment value" get rolex.
> If you want innovation, fit, finish, good movement, to stand out from the crowd get Omega/Tudor/Grand Seiko.
> MSRP???
> That is only for instagram darlings and hard to source watches. For others:
> 10% off at an AD or 30% off used.
> 
> But you know this already.
> 
> Is that impressive movement on top of the base GS beauty worth a 3K premium?
> As a comparative value for a new watch that you will keep, yes for some people.
> As a watch you will sell in 2 years or compared to Rolex - well that is up to you.


well reports are that ADs aren’t allow


chas58 said:


> yeah, we read that before, the old Rolex argument. We know how it goes:
> 
> If you want to impress others, flip a watch after a year or two, or want "value retention/ investment value" get rolex.
> If you want innovation, fit, finish, good movement, to stand out from the crowd get Omega/Tudor/Grand Seiko.
> MSRP???
> That is only for instagram darlings and hard to source watches. For others:
> 10% off at an AD or 30% off used.
> 
> But you know this already.
> 
> Is that impressive movement on top of the base GS beauty worth a 3K premium?
> As a comparative value for a new watch that you will keep, yes for some people.
> As a watch you will sell in 2 years or compared to Rolex - well that is up to you.


That wasn’t really my point. My point was $10,400 is an absurd price for a new Grand Seiko. The pricing has now risen higher than Omega, Cartier, Rolex and others. I would venture that most here agree that it’s too much money for a grand seiko. Resale is part but certainly not all of the equation.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Tpp3975 said:


> Selling or asking? Because there is a massive difference. And of course small run limited editions are a different story.


I’m watching listings disappear after a couple days, so I assume they’re selling. And no doubt the limiteds have a different delta. Incidentally all my GS are limited. Not because I refuse anything general production but because of windows of opportunity.

“I might finally pull the trigger on this SBGM221. Oh, hello SBGK015! That other one can wait.”

Literally just glanced at the GS website within an hour of a press release and called Chris at Little Treasury within the first business hour afterward. Three times. I’ve learned what times of day GS lifts embargoes for US vs worldwide release and tend to check them regularly.

Please… send help.


----------



## Tpp3975

Chrono Brewer said:


> I’m watching listings disappear after a couple days, so I assume they’re selling. And no doubt the limiteds have a different delta. Incidentally all my GS are limited. Not because I refuse anything general production but because of windows of opportunity.
> 
> “I might finally pull the trigger on this SBGM221. Oh, hello SBGK015! That other one can wait.”
> 
> Literally just glanced at the GS website within an hour of a press release and called Chris at Little Treasury within the first business hour afterward. Three times. I’ve learned what times of day GS lifts embargoes based US vs worldwide release and tend to check them regularly.
> 
> Please… send help.


Lol. The 015 is a stunner. By the way, I would gladly pay the $7500 asking price for that one. Which kind of proves my point about the absurdity of the $10,400 hi beat.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Tpp3975 said:


> Lol. The 015 is a stunner. By the way, I would gladly pay the $7500 asking price for that one. Which kind of proves my point about the absurdity of the $10,400 hi beat.


Agreed. And further proven with the SBGK017 released at the same time. Same movement, same materials... but the general production piece costs more? Why? Ah, because it has a bracelet. GS apparently doesn't change their pricing at all if something is limited. Just materials and movements. Which is a subtle thing I respect and think they should get more credit for. No profiteering from limited runs.

...except that they have so many of them. Though I'm apparently the proof of how well their approach works.


----------



## ink3027

Tpp3975 said:


> Can we discuss the elephant in the room? What on earth is going on with GS pricing? $10,400 for a titanium 3 hander? WHAT! 3 years ago that watch would have listed at $6500 or so. Those MSRP's are higher than Rolex, Cartier, Zenith and many other comparable brands. Not looking to start a war over which watches are "better" and that GS finishing is leaps and bounds above these others. It is fine if you think so - but the value proposition is long gone here. I cannot imagine plunking down $11k after tax on this watch even if I loved it (which I do). Gorgeous watch. Too bad.


Well said -- completely agree with you.


----------



## 123joe

Regarding the price discussion: If you look at the quality, GS clearly is better made than Rolex, Omega, Cartier. This gets common knowledge, therefore it’s not surprising that GS can start demanding prices that were unthinkable a few years ago.
Also, from the reports I’ve seen here, GS is seemingly able to sell their watches. So that means the pricing is correct.

The issue I have with these very expensive releases: Quartz GS watches start at $2200. That’s for a relatively thin watch, relatively small diameter that otherwise is rare in the catalogue. It has pretty much the same bracelet as the top of the line models, it apparently has the same attention to detail with respect to the dials and case finishing.

The market seemingly approves the pricing, but personally going from $2200 to $10400 for a textured dial and a nice automatic movement is too much.

You could get an SBGX263 with champagne dial on bracelet, an SBGX353 with sky flake dial on a strap and a Cartier Santos Dumont and it would still be cheaper than a white birch.


----------



## Xhantos

Chrono Brewer said:


> Personally, I only buy watches I intend to wear for life and pass on to the kids.


That's me exactly. I do not sell, in the unlikely case it was a wrong purchase, I gift.



Chrono Brewer said:


> Resale value has no bearing on whether I buy a piece.


Resale value still means a lot. It's an excellent indicator for current market value, hence the real monetary value of a new watch. MSRP is just a number, one can ask for 100K or 10K for the same watch, buying price is what counts.


----------



## One-Seventy

ts298 said:


> I will consider GS again next year when they're back to 25% off. These prices are nuts.


Cheaper watches aimed at the people who typically suffer in recessions will likely start seeing discounts (even in the UK, traditionally resistant to any form of discounting, there are signs of this starting to happen). However the people who buy $5-10,000 watches typically end up benefiting from recessions, so demand from them for luxury watches will only increase. Especially when the dollar is destroying everything in its path. You're rich, powerful and like to spend, and they want that lovely surplus! So there'll be no 25%-off fire sales. Investors unhappy with this can look to other products but they won't be cheaper either...


----------



## One-Seventy

Xhantos said:


> Resale value still means a lot. It's an excellent indicator for current market value, hence the real monetary value of a new watch. MSRP is just a number, one can ask for 100K or 10K for the same watch, buying price is what counts.


In the USA, are Grand Seikos frequently heavily discounted or remaindered at a third off or similar? I assume that as "resell" value - the all-important metric to watch enthusiasts - of GS is regarded as so poor by this forum, that that would be reflected in deep discounting from new across the board.


----------



## Tpp3975

123joe said:


> Regarding the price discussion: If you look at the quality, GS clearly is better made than Rolex, Omega, Cartier. This gets common knowledge, therefore it’s not surprising that GS can start demanding prices that were unthinkable a few years ago.
> Also, from the reports I’ve seen here, GS is seemingly able to sell their watches. So that means the pricing is correct.
> 
> The issue I have with these very expensive releases: Quartz GS watches start at $2200. That’s for a relatively thin watch, relatively small diameter that otherwise is rare in the catalogue. It has pretty much the same bracelet as the top of the line models, it apparently has the same attention to detail with respect to the dials and case finishing.
> 
> The market seemingly approves the pricing, but personally going from $2200 to $10400 for a textured dial and a nice automatic movement is too much.
> 
> You could get an SBGX263 with champagne dial on bracelet, an SBGX353 with sky flake dial on a strap and a Cartier Santos Dumont and it would still be cheaper than a white birch.


Look I love Grand Seiko but when you say things like GS is “clearly” better quality than Rolex, Omega and Cartier and it’s “common knowledge” you lose credibility with me. It certainly is not common knowledge and certainly is not clearly. And a whole lotta people on watchuseek would disagree with you. That may be your opinion and I might even personally agree with you. A lot more goes into a great luxury watch than the movement and case finishing. And based on resale prices, the market values all three of those brands over GS. The proof is right there on watchcharts.


One-Seventy said:


> However the people who buy $5-10,000 watches typically end up benefiting from recessions, so demand from them for luxury watches will only increase. Especially when the dollar is destroying everything in its path. You're rich, powerful and like to spend, and they want that lovely surplus! So there'll be no 25%-off fire sales. Investors unhappy with this can look to other products but they won't be cheaper either...


How so? Have you been watching the Rolex market collapse almost perfectly in sync with the stock market?
To answer your question below, US ADs do not discount GS and the current position is they are not allowed. I’m sure there are exceptions. One unique thing about GS is they can be imported at very favorable exchange rates. So that may explain why we see so many new models at discounted prices even though ADs don’t discount.


----------



## Gebbeth

One-Seventy said:


> Cheaper watches aimed at the people who typically suffer in recessions will likely start seeing discounts (even in the UK, traditionally resistant to any form of discounting, there are signs of this starting to happen). However the people who buy $5-10,000 watches typically end up benefiting from recessions, so demand from them for luxury watches will only increase. Especially when the dollar is destroying everything in its path. You're rich, powerful and like to spend, and they want that lovely surplus! So there'll be no 25%-off fire sales. Investors unhappy with this can look to other products but they won't be cheaper either...


I disagree whole heartedly about this statement.

Watches in the "mid-tier" price range will suffer the most. This is the aspirational price range for middle-class people looking for a nice watch to splurge on. If anything, history has show that recessions hit the middle-class more severely. These are the higher paying jobs that get cut the most when companies downsize. I just heard Intel, for example, will be cutting thousands of jobs because of PC sale slowdowns. These are not minimum wage jobs (although some will probably be included). Conversely, these will not be the high executive positions either, unless they do so with a hefty severance package.

The people who "benefit" the most from recessions are the rich and very rich as they can take advantage of the lower demand for certain goods and lower asset prices. But they do not concentrate on mid-tier watches. The rich and very rich will try to snatch up higher priced models from $20k on up to the super luxury prices. They don't care. If anything, they will see a VC Overseas now with availability and snatch a few variants up just for the hell of it. Perhaps Pateks as well. Certainly Rolex as "stretch" purchases by middle class watch enthusiasts will fall away, and Rolex is, if anything, THE aspirational brand for middle class and upper middle class purchasers.

Going back to Grand Seiko, if they are trying to move up market in price, they have much to lose if the world does go into recession. Certainly, when they priced certain models at the beginning of the year around Watches and Wonders time, this was way before the monetary tightening and fears of inflation and then recession. I would expect GS to be now be concerned about the coming recession.....well, at least they should be.


----------



## bibbibart

Would love if you seperated the “investment” topic to a separate thread.  

Leave this one for new GS models announcements.


----------



## GrandWatcher

This is NOT a mock up.

*Grand Seiko SBGJ269 "Australian Pink Flannel Flower" Hi-Beat GMT*
Australian Limited Edition - 50 pieces

$10,600 AUD
Diameter 39.5mm
Thickness 14.1mm
Comes with additional grey leather strap
Now THATS a pink watch.


----------



## Mbappe

GrandWatcher said:


> This is NOT a mock up.
> 
> *Grand Seiko SBGJ269 "Australian Pink Flannel Flower" High-Beat GMT*
> Australian Limited Edition - 50 pieces
> 
> $10,600 AUD
> Diameter 39.5mm
> Thickness 14.1mm
> Comes with additional grey leather strap
> Now THATS a pink watch.
> 
> View attachment 16961352
> 
> 
> View attachment 16961351​


Beautiful!


----------



## Domo

GrandWatcher said:


> This is NOT a mock up.
> 
> *Grand Seiko SBGJ269 "Australian Pink Flannel Flower" Hi-Beat GMT*
> Australian Limited Edition - 50 pieces
> 
> $10,600 AUD
> Diameter 39.5mm
> Thickness 14.1mm
> Comes with additional grey leather strap
> Now THATS a pink watch.
> 
> View attachment 16961352
> 
> 
> View attachment 16961351​


WOW. That's-a nice-a watch!


----------



## MojoS

GrandWatcher said:


> This is NOT a mock up.
> 
> *Grand Seiko SBGJ269 "Australian Pink Flannel Flower" Hi-Beat GMT*
> Australian Limited Edition - 50 pieces
> 
> $10,600 AUD
> Diameter 39.5mm
> Thickness 14.1mm
> Comes with additional grey leather strap
> Now THATS a pink watch.
> 
> View attachment 16961352
> 
> 
> View attachment 16961351​


What a beauty!

GS has such fantastic pink watches renders, though when I’ve seen them in person they are a lot more subdued than you’d expect. This one looks like it would really pop.

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## SKYWATCH007

GrandWatcher said:


> This is NOT a mock up.
> 
> *Grand Seiko SBGJ269 "Australian Pink Flannel Flower" Hi-Beat GMT*
> Australian Limited Edition - 50 pieces
> 
> $10,600 AUD
> Diameter 39.5mm
> Thickness 14.1mm
> Comes with additional grey leather strap
> Now THATS a pink watch.
> 
> View attachment 16961352
> 
> 
> View attachment 16961351​


"This is NOT a mock up" 😂


----------



## Gebbeth

Okay, alternative opinion. I don't get this watch. A REALLY REALLY pink watch that is also a GMT at 40mm and 14mm thick?

If this was a non-GMT and thinner, say 11mm or less, I could see this as a killing cross over for both men and women.

I don't see this as either now.


----------



## MojoS

Gebbeth said:


> Okay, alternative opinion. I don't get this watch. A REALLY REALLY pink watch that is also a GMT at 40mm and 14mm thick?
> 
> If this was a non-GMT and thinner, say 11mm or less, I could see this as a killing cross over for both men and women.
> 
> I don't see this as either now.


Judging by the love for the SBGA413, Rolex OP pink, Oris ProPilot, and a couple of over pink/pinky-Salmon watches released over the last few years in this size I don’t think the size/colour combo are really going to detract anyone - As a generalization, I feel like most peoples on WatchUSeek tend to also lean towards GMTs, so if anything it’s a plus.

That coupled with the fact that there are only 50 units according to the post, I can’t imagine these will last long at all. I have my eyes set on other grand seikos that I can buy locally (sadly nothing particularly fun hits the UK as far as regional exclusives go) but if were in Aus, this would be a top contender for me.

I appreciate what you mean though, and considering how quickly the SBGW289 sold out, and how popular watches such as the Salmon coloured Baltic MR01 / Kurono Tokyo Toki / Rolex OP 36 there is definitely demand for pink unisex watches.


----------



## Gebbeth

I think they could of lost the GMT function and made it thinner. The price point hurts too. This is definitely for GS super fans.


----------



## Plus 9Time

Gebbeth said:


> I think they could of lost the GMT function and made it thinner. The price point hurts too. This is definitely for GS super fans.


I am not sure what the issue with the price point would be, it equates to approximately US$6040. The closest equivalent pieces available in the US (SBGJ249 & SBGJ251) have a list price of $6800, so the Australian model is more than 10% cheaper and a LE vs the regular production of the others.



MojoS said:


> GS has such fantastic pink watches renders, though when I’ve seen them in person they are a lot more subdued than you’d expect. This one looks like it would really pop.


This one is a lot less subtle than the SBGA413 as a comparison. The pink is much more pronounced in a wider range of lighting conditions but being a GS dial still does look a little different at different times which I find to actually be appealing.


----------



## Plus 9Time

The SLGT001 is a one off piece that is going to be auctioned off in New York at Phillips in December with the proceeds going to the Children's Heart Hospital. This explains the missing 001 model in the line up when the 003 was released earlier this year. The differences are a full Brilliant Hard Titanium inner and outer case, gold power reserve, seconds track on the tourbillon and additional components, and blued carriage and screws. The bridges and mainplate are silver plated and it comes with a brown Urushi lacquer finished strap with hand engraved clasp instead of the black strap on the 003. The donation to the Children's Heart Hospital ties back to the Kodo naming that is Japanese for heart.
More details can be seen on the GS9 Club website.


----------



## bbence

Hi guys! The 36 mm watches getting more and more popular again in the watch world. GS also released the sbgw289 - 91- 93 models recently and I was wondering if we can expect new GS movements which can fit in these medium-smaller sized watches?


----------



## Gebbeth

*SBGX261
High Accuracy Quartz
37mm*


----------



## SKYWATCH007

Gebbeth said:


> View attachment 16970948
> 
> 
> *SBGX261
> High Accuracy Quartz
> 37mm*


It's a nice size, but super boring in person.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

SKYWATCH007 said:


> It's a nice size, but super boring in person.


Agreed. A Grand Seiko without a stunning dial seems incomplete to me. Though piano black has its place and must suit some.


----------



## One-Seventy

Chrono Brewer said:


> Agreed. A Grand Seiko without a stunning dial seems incomplete to me. Though piano black has its place and must suit some.


About the most popular 9F that GS makes has a "boring" piano black dial (the 39mm GMT). Although I suppose if there is not much interest in the standard of finishing inside and out, then yes I can see why the black dial version could be dismissed.


----------



## ink3027

bbence said:


> Hi guys! The 36 mm watches getting more and more popular again in the watch world. GS also released the sbgw289 - 91- 93 models recently and I was wondering if we can expect new GS movements which can fit in these medium-smaller sized watches?


I would LOVE to see the new 36.5mm 44GS case paired with a 9F movement and a special dial. That would be an insta-buy from me.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Gebbeth said:


> View attachment 16970948
> 
> 
> *SBGX261
> High Accuracy Quartz
> 37mm*


This is an old release, not sure if you thought it was new because of Adrian's video?


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Chrono Brewer said:


> Agreed. A Grand Seiko without a stunning dial seems incomplete to me. Though piano black has its place and must suit some.


Couldn't agree more. I usually only buy their amazing, textured dial models.


----------



## Gebbeth

Euron Greyjoy said:


> This is an old release, not sure if you thought it was new because of Adrian's video?


I mention this because of the smaller size. Most GSs are in the 40's with a few limited released below that. SBGX is 37 which I think is a great size for a watch.

Boring is also a relative term. I think this is "classic" in the same way an Oyster Perpetual is "classic" (not the Tiffany Blue dial or the Stella colors, I mean your classic OP).

Yes, I saw the Adrian Barker video, but I have been looking for a GS high-accuracy quartz at the right price, and this has been on my radar. I'm not sure I want to pay $5000 for a quartz, high accuracy or not, but a couple of thousand would be a yes if it is of this quality of watch.

It's also something I can give to my kids as a graduation present or something like that down the road. No fuss, nice, but not too nice, that kinda thing.


----------



## percysmith

Chrono Brewer said:


> Agreed. A Grand Seiko without a stunning dial seems incomplete to me. Though piano black has its place and must suit some.





Euron Greyjoy said:


> Couldn't agree more. I usually only buy their amazing, textured dial models.


As a happy owner of SBGR253 (having chosen it after owning a SNKL23 and SARB033 first, and more recently a SNKC57J1) I cannot disagree more. I just have a thing for piano black dials.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Gebbeth said:


> I mention this because of the smaller size. Most GSs are in the 40's with a few limited released below that. SBGX is 37 which I think is a great size for a watch.
> 
> Boring is also a relative term. I think this is "classic" in the same way an Oyster Perpetual is "classic" (not the Tiffany Blue dial or the Stella colors, I mean your classic OP).
> 
> Yes, I saw the Adrian Barker video, but I have been looking for a GS high-accuracy quartz at the right price, and this has been on my radar. I'm not sure I want to pay $5000 for a quartz, high accuracy or not, but a couple of thousand would be a yes if it is of this quality of watch.
> 
> It's also something I can give to my kids as a graduation present or something like that down the road. No fuss, nice, but not too nice, that kinda thing.


Ah, ok. 

9F Quartz watches are great, I own 3 (SBGN023 / SBGX335 / SBGP017). 

That black one can be found in Japan for as low as 1300 US$. You've probably also had a look at the white version (SBGX259), that one seems harder to find.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

percysmith said:


> As a happy owner of SBGR253 (having chosen it after owning a SNKL23 and SARB033 first, and more recently a SNKC57J1) I cannot disagree more. I just have a thing for piano black dials.


Fair enough, I actually also have one without texture and the dial is really nice too, admittedly:










At the same time, I'm planning to upgrade to the SLGA015 at some point, also because of the beautiful texture.


----------



## Thumbs

GrandWatcher said:


> This is NOT a mock up.
> 
> *Grand Seiko SBGJ269 "Australian Pink Flannel Flower" Hi-Beat GMT*
> Australian Limited Edition - 50 pieces
> 
> $10,600 AUD
> Diameter 39.5mm
> Thickness 14.1mm
> Comes with additional grey leather strap
> Now THATS a pink watch.
> 
> View attachment 16961352
> 
> 
> View attachment 16961351​



Wow this one is truly a stunner! I’d be all over this one if I lived in Straya!


----------



## AlvaroVitali

Grand Seiko SBGY027 "Karesansui", European exclusivity.









Novità Grand Seiko 2022 - page 6


Edizione limitata a soli 30 esemplari per il concessionario cinese Shengshi. Il verde rigoglioso è ispirato allo stagno Mishakaike che riflette il




grupposeiko1881.forumfree.it


----------



## Ryan1881

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Couldn't agree more. I usually only buy their amazing, textured dial models.


That's a little disappointing, Missing out on some stunners.


----------



## jmariorebelo

AlvaroVitali said:


> Grand Seiko SBGY027 "Karesansui", European exclusivity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novità Grand Seiko 2022 - page 6
> 
> 
> Edizione limitata a soli 30 esemplari per il concessionario cinese Shengshi. Il verde rigoglioso è ispirato allo stagno Mishakaike che riflette il
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grupposeiko1881.forumfree.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16976791


That might be one of the best watches linking the inspiration for the dial and the actual texture. It truly looks like the dry garden patterns.


----------



## Domo

AlvaroVitali said:


> Grand Seiko SBGY027 "Karesansui", European exclusivity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novità Grand Seiko 2022 - page 6
> 
> 
> Edizione limitata a soli 30 esemplari per il concessionario cinese Shengshi. Il verde rigoglioso è ispirato allo stagno Mishakaike che riflette il
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grupposeiko1881.forumfree.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16976791


Nice. They don't use the greyed seconds hand enough. I like it


----------



## bibbibart

Love it. Similar in a way to SBGY003 - the unattainable holy grail for me. Finally, after a couple of years’ wait there comes an equivalent. Cannot miss it.


----------



## bibbibart

I mean… look at this dial…

While being greyish, this will also be a strap monster.


----------



## Spytap

AlvaroVitali said:


> Grand Seiko SBGY027 "Karesansui", European exclusivity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novità Grand Seiko 2022 - page 6
> 
> 
> Edizione limitata a soli 30 esemplari per il concessionario cinese Shengshi. Il verde rigoglioso è ispirato allo stagno Mishakaike che riflette il
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grupposeiko1881.forumfree.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16976791


**** me that’s perfect. Do I even want to know the pricing?


----------



## bibbibart

Spytap said:


> **** me that’s perfect. Do I even want to know the pricing?


EUR 9.200. Compared to used SBGY003s in the range of 13.000-15.000€ on secondary market it is almost a bargain. But this is only my opinion - of a guy obsessed with SBGY003.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

bibbibart said:


> EUR 9.200. Compared to used SBGY003s in the range of 13.000-15.000€ on secondary market it is almost a bargain. But this is only my opinion - of a guy obsessed with SBGY003.


I recently saw a used SBGY003 which sold for 7900 US$ in Thailand after no one was interested when the price was higher (the seller asked for 13.000US$ at first, then the price kept going down all the way to 7900US$).


----------



## bibbibart

Euron Greyjoy said:


> I recently saw a used SBGY003 which sold for 7900 US$ in Thailand after no one was interested when the price was higher (the seller asked for 13.000US$ at first, then the price kept going down all the way to 7900US$).


Pitty he didn’t have a contact to me. 🥲


----------



## Thumbs

AlvaroVitali said:


> Grand Seiko SBGY027 "Karesansui", European exclusivity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novità Grand Seiko 2022 - page 6
> 
> 
> Edizione limitata a soli 30 esemplari per il concessionario cinese Shengshi. Il verde rigoglioso è ispirato allo stagno Mishakaike che riflette il
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grupposeiko1881.forumfree.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16976791


The epitome of beauty in simplicity. Very nice, indeed!


----------



## bibbibart

Anyway - imagine this SBGY with a light brown, bottle green, blue, etc. strap. Almost any go woth this dial.


----------



## Gebbeth

AlvaroVitali said:


> Grand Seiko SBGY027 "Karesansui", European exclusivity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Novità Grand Seiko 2022 - page 6
> 
> 
> Edizione limitata a soli 30 esemplari per il concessionario cinese Shengshi. Il verde rigoglioso è ispirato allo stagno Mishakaike che riflette il
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grupposeiko1881.forumfree.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16976791


Now this is a beautiful watch.


----------



## Gebbeth

Okay, my Italian is rusty (meaning non-existant), but is this a 38.5mm case with a 10.2mm thickness? Limited to 100 pieces?

Sucks for me as there is no way I can get my hands on this beauty.


----------



## bibbibart

Gebbeth said:


> Okay, my Italian is rusty (meaning non-existant), but is this a 38.5mm case with a 10.2mm thickness? Limited to 100 pieces?
> 
> Sucks for me as there is no way I can get my hands on this beauty.


Yes, your Italian is sufficiently good.  Watch these photos.









GRAND SEIKO ÉDITION EUROPÉENNE SBGY027


L'autre vision du jardin japonais




www.lesrhabilleurs.com


----------



## twgxiong

Really nice. I think I am in the minority but I think these comparatively more subtle dials are where GS shine


----------



## Gebbeth

twgxiong said:


> Really nice. I think I am in the minority but I think these comparatively more subtle dials are where GS shine


The dial is dangerously close to a Cocktail Time, but the literal twist and materials make all the difference (dial wise that is).


----------



## CFK-OB

Best looking new release for a while. Very classy and absolutely beautiful.


----------



## duckmcf

Absolutely gorgeous watch.

As an aside, photos of these 9R31 movements always get my old school digital design engineer‘s brain spinning like a top. That just has to be some sort of programming interface and I’d love to know what it does, and how it works.

Cheers,
Noel


----------



## whineboy

duckmcf said:


> Absolutely gorgeous watch.
> 
> As an aside, photos of these 9R31 movements always get my old school digital design engineer‘s brain spinning like a top. That just has to be some sort of programming interface and I’d love to know what it does, and how it works.
> 
> Cheers,
> Noel
> 
> View attachment 16978512


See posts 38 and 40. Based on architecture, the 9R31 is a derivative of the 7R series. 









Spring Drive Power Reserve and Accuracy


My SBGA031 has been repeatedly +0.2spd every period of time I've worn it, the longest being 27 days. Ditto. Mine's always right around 0.2 SPD. Seems to be a pretty common report from those who have measured it accurately.




www.watchuseek.com






Having a great time….


----------



## duckmcf

whineboy said:


> See posts 38 and 40. Based on architecture, the 9R31 is a derivative of the 7R series.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spring Drive Power Reserve and Accuracy
> 
> 
> My SBGA031 has been repeatedly +0.2spd every period of time I've worn it, the longest being 27 days. Ditto. Mine's always right around 0.2 SPD. Seems to be a pretty common report from those who have measured it accurately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having a great time….


Yep, that’s my guess as well, but we’ll probably never know the specifics of the interface or the protocol. Still, it’d be beyond cool if we could tune the rate at home with a case back opener, a USB adaptor cable, an App and quite a bit of courage…


----------



## Whiskey&Watch

SBGY027 video review just dropped! It's in Italian, though! I am drooling!


----------



## bibbibart

Whiskey&Watch said:


> SBGY027 video review just dropped! It's in Italian, though! I am drooling!


Well, it is actually more like in French.


----------



## GrandWatcher

Amazing execution on the front but I can never accept the back. There is zero romance when all you see is a plate and a bunch of holes (some filled with jewels, some with screws, and others just holes).


----------



## palletwheel

duckmcf said:


> Yep, that’s my guess as well, but we’ll probably never know the specifics of the interface or the protocol. Still, it’d be beyond cool if we could tune the rate at home with a case back opener, a USB adaptor cable, an App and quite a bit of courage…


Those contacts are used by a tool to adjust the watch. It probably, if I had to take a guess, is similar to what they do on a 9F, just in a different way









Grand Seiko 9F adjustment steps are 6SPY or 8SPY?


I asked these questions on the "Grand Seiko" forum 2 days ago and received no replies so I thought I would ask here,... the present GS Japan site indicates the adjustment steps of the 9F series HAQ movements to be 6SPY. Several posts I have read on this site indicate the adjustment steps to be...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## PANICiii

I just love this case... 
Beautiful watch


----------



## indygreg

For me, we are getting close to perfection with these releases. I keep wanting another burgundy watch - I have tried most of them, but that damn maroon reverso cannot be beat IMO. 









Introducing: A Snowy Take On The Fan-Fave 'Omiwatari' Leads 4 New Watches From Grand Seiko


A smaller Snowflake, just in time for winter.




www.hodinkee.com


----------



## bibbibart

You are right. The recent GS releases (those 4 + the European LE SBGY027) are close to perfection. Wish they released the burgundy SBGW on their beads of rice bracelet. 

I have just realized that this European LE is for GS probably the first Europan LE ever. There are European models (unlimited - like a pair of SBGWs), but never a LE until now. 

This LE of 100 pcs may also potentially give us some idea about relative sizes of the European and the US market for GS. US releases go in hundreds (like 300 for SBGK015) and the European one is 100 pcs. Although on the other hand this might be just a test of how capacious the European market for LEs is.


----------



## SISL

bibbibart said:


> I have just realized that this European LE is for GS probably the first Europan LE ever. There are European models (unlimited - like a pair of SBGWs), but never a LE until now.


No, there were (lovely) precious metal LE for the Place Vendome boutique in Paris.


----------



## bibbibart

SISL said:


> No, there were (lovely) precious metal LE for the Place Vendome boutique in Paris.


You are absolutely right (btw - SBGK017 is probably based on them), but I would qualify them more as Paris Flagship Boutique LE and not as European LE.


----------



## bibbibart

Article by Fratello with photos of SBGY027. 









Introducing The Grand Seiko SBGY027G "Karesansui" — An Exclusive Limited Edition For The European Market


✓ Introducing the Grand Seiko Karesansui ✓ Inspired by Japanese zen gardens ✓ See how it plays with the light and soothe yourself here! ✓




www.fratellowatches.com


----------



## Loevhagen

It's prudent to also mention what GS state on their own homepage about the SBGY027: "This model is also available in the following countries outside Europe; (*Israel, Turkey, and African countries*)" Not so exclusive to what many would think when they read the headlines and "reviews" by watch journalists.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Loevhagen said:


> It's prudent to also mention what GS state on their own homepage about the SBGY027: "This model is also available in the following countries outside Europe; (*Israel, Turkey, and African countries*)" Not so exclusive to what many would think when they read the headlines and "reviews" by watch journalists.


“A minor markets exclusive.” I guess those countries had to get some horological love at some point.


----------



## bibbibart

Loevhagen said:


> It's prudent to also mention what GS state on their own homepage about the SBGY027: "This model is also available in the following countries outside Europe; (*Israel, Turkey, and African countries*)" Not so exclusive to what many would think when they read the headlines and "reviews" by watch journalists.


Yep, some unique countries there - GS claims to have ADs in Egypt, Mauritius, Reunion, Yemen and Department of Mayotte (frankly, never heard of the latter). 

Still seems there are no ADs shown on GS Global page for Israel.


----------



## bibbibart

Error. Repeated post.


----------



## Loevhagen

bibbibart said:


> Still seems there are no ADs shown on *GS Global page* for Israel.


Shouldn't said country be listed under GS' European homepage - if there is some logic to it all.


----------



## bibbibart

Error. Repeated post.


----------



## jmariorebelo

Loevhagen said:


> Shouldn't said country be listed under GS' European homepage - if there is some logic to it all.


Well Israel is in the eurovision and their clubs play in UCL so that's indeed the next logical step.

According to some people in charge, at least.


----------



## Watchyouloved

https://shop.hodinkee.com/products/grand-seiko-sbgj261-deposit


----------



## Watchyouloved

Hodinkee restocked on the limited edition peacock


----------



## Robbyb03

The SBGY013 looks really nice, but seems outrageously priced at $9,000 MSRP especially to someone looking to buy their first Grand Seiko. I just can’t justify that when I can spend less on a JLC Ultra Thin Small Seconds or Date and slightly more for a JLC Ultra Thin Moon.


----------



## bibbibart

Robbyb03 said:


> The SBGY013 looks really nice, but seems outrageously priced at $9,000 MSRP especially to someone looking to buy their first Grand Seiko. I just can’t justify that when I can spend less on a JLC Ultra Thin Small Seconds or Date and slightly more for a JLC Ultra Thin Moon.


Well, the price of its earlier famous cousin, SBGY0003, was €8.200 in 2019. Given the inflation and general rise trend in watches’ prices (look at Omegas), this additional €1.000 (12% over 3 years) looks more like a bargain. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## smghasan7

_SBGY011G | Grand Seiko (grand-seiko.com) 

Looks like this ones a non-LE!_


----------



## SKYWATCH007

They just can't seem to get the case one or two mm smaller.


----------



## One-Seventy

SKYWATCH007 said:


> They just can't seem to get the case one or two mm smaller.


I'm sure they can, but there are already two manual SDs with 38.5mm cases and this case design does most of its work at 40mm across.

I do know that if they made it at (say) 38mm, there would only be posts saying "why were they unable to make it 40mm". It's a choice, rather than a physical inability, with success measured by the fewer number of online complains, I suppose...


----------



## beetle

Exactly this, the market for 39-40mm is probably bigger at the moment than the market for 36-38mm. Thinking that 40 years ago, 36mm was all the rage, it's just a trend, and may or may not change...


----------



## 123joe

The thing is: Rolex for example makes smaller, very wearable sizes for many of its watches. The standard size for the OP and DJ is 36mm, the Sub and GMT Master are 40/41mm, Daytona 40mm. Almost all comparable GS models are 3-4mm bigger in size, with most Heritage models at ~40mm, and divers/chronos at about 44mm. 

There was a 37mm mechanical GS line (I think SBGR251-255), but it seems to have been discontinued in many markets. 

I love GS, and have a 37mm quartz model myself. I would love to see GS being able to shrink sizes by a few mm to have more wearable pieces. 

Of course, GS movements have comparatively long power reserves, high frequency and high accuracy, nonetheless it would be a feat to achieve the same in slighltly smaller models.

Now, one sometimes has to choose between pure quality (GS) and wearability (Rolex).


----------



## jaw200

Wish it had a date at six, that would've been the perfect watch for me.


----------



## Aspiniou

I have an SBGX261 and consider it the only GS I'll ever need, but if they came out with a 9F quartz white/snowflake textured dial with date in 36 - 38mm, I'd grit my teeth and just get it. These watches are something else.


----------



## drhr

No watch is 100% acceptable by 100% of the watch being population, 40mm is typically too large for me, hand wind our not, so I will stick with the 37mm and below models since I don't value accuracy as much as some/most . . . .


----------



## SKYWATCH007

drhr said:


> No watch is 100% acceptable by 100% of the watch being population, 40mm is typically too large for me, hand wind our not, so I will stick with the 37mm and below models since I don't value accuracy as much as some/most . . . .
> View attachment 17024606
> View attachment 17024608


That 289 is a beauty. I was fortunate to pick one up as well. I was actually trying to choose between that and the new Omega Seamaster Aqua Terra with those new colours that got released not long ago this year. It was a tough choice but ended up choosing the 289 just felt more special. I was worried about the 36mm size.


----------



## drhr

SKYWATCH007 said:


> That 289 is a beauty. I was fortunate to pick one up as well. I was actually trying to choose between that and the new Omega Seamaster Aqua Terra with those new colours that got released not long ago this year. It was a tough choice but ended up choosing the 289 just felt more special. I was worried about the 36mm size.


Awesome on the 289! Nice to know others appreciate its specialness (word?) too.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Picked up my SBGH303 (Koke-iro, green moss, Thailand Limited Edition 100 pieces) yesterday at the GS Boutique at Gaysorn, Bangkok, Thailand.

Gotta say I really like it more than I thought I would.

There's something about a bright green Kirazuri dial, it sparkles beautifully in the sun and looks quite subdued in darker conditions.

Unlike many other limited editions, this one only reads "1 out of 100" in the back.

Here are some photos I took (as always, pics don't really do it justice):


----------



## danielnpina

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Picked up my SBGH303 (Koke-iro, green moss, Thailand Limited Edition 100 pieces) yesterday at the GS Boutique at Gaysorn, Bangkok, Thailand.
> 
> Gotta say I really like it more than I thought I would.
> 
> There's something about a bright green Kirazuri dial, it sparkles beautifully in the sun and looks quite subdued in darker conditions.
> 
> Unlike many other limited editions, this one only reads "1 out of 100" in the back.
> 
> Here are some photos I took (as always, pics don't really do it justice):
> 
> View attachment 17027915
> 
> 
> View attachment 17027916
> 
> 
> View attachment 17027917


Wow. Great photos. Great watch 

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## alde

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Picked up my SBGH303 (Koke-iro, green moss, Thailand Limited Edition 100 pieces) yesterday at the GS Boutique at Gaysorn, Bangkok, Thailand.
> 
> Gotta say I really like it more than I thought I would.
> 
> There's something about a bright green Kirazuri dial, it sparkles beautifully in the sun and looks quite subdued in darker conditions.
> 
> Unlike many other limited editions, this one only reads "1 out of 100" in the back.
> 
> Here are some photos I took (as always, pics don't really do it justice):
> 
> View attachment 17027915
> 
> 
> View attachment 17027916
> 
> 
> View attachment 17027917


Impressive! Thank you for sharing. I think the three Thailand LE to be some of the most gorgeous releases this year


----------



## bibbibart

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Picked up my SBGH303 (Koke-iro, green moss, Thailand Limited Edition 100 pieces) yesterday at the GS Boutique at Gaysorn, Bangkok, Thailand.
> 
> Gotta say I really like it more than I thought I would.
> 
> There's something about a bright green Kirazuri dial, it sparkles beautifully in the sun and looks quite subdued in darker conditions.
> 
> Unlike many other limited editions, this one only reads "1 out of 100" in the back.
> 
> Here are some photos I took (as always, pics don't really do it justice):
> 
> View attachment 17027915
> 
> 
> View attachment 17027916
> 
> 
> View attachment 17027917


Huge congrats! This is a stellar piece and great shots.


----------



## Xhantos

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Picked up my SBGH303 (Koke-iro, green moss, Thailand Limited Edition 100 pieces) yesterday at the GS
> ...
> Unlike many other limited editions,* this one only reads "1 out of 100" in the back*.
> ...


But then, does it have a separate normal serial number?


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Xhantos said:


> But then, does it have a separate normal serial number?


Yes.


----------



## Gebbeth

Euron Greyjoy said:


> Picked up my SBGH303 (Koke-iro, green moss, Thailand Limited Edition 100 pieces) yesterday at the GS Boutique at Gaysorn, Bangkok, Thailand.
> 
> Gotta say I really like it more than I thought I would.
> 
> There's something about a bright green Kirazuri dial, it sparkles beautifully in the sun and looks quite subdued in darker conditions.
> 
> Unlike many other limited editions, this one only reads "1 out of 100" in the back.
> 
> Here are some photos I took (as always, pics don't really do it justice):
> 
> View attachment 17027915
> 
> 
> View attachment 17027916
> 
> 
> View attachment 17027917


Beautiful watch. Reminds me of macha tea.

But, does it really just say "1 out of 100" and not which one out of 100?


----------



## bibbibart

Gebbeth said:


> Beautiful watch. Reminds me of macha tea.
> 
> But, does it really just say "1 out of 100" and not which one out of 100?


Recently GS tends to apply xx/xxx numbering of certain LEs. Eg. the same case for SBGA475 50 pcs LE.


----------



## bxtime

Watchyouloved said:


> Hodinkee restocked on the limited edition peacock


Act now! It's a beauty.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Gebbeth said:


> Beautiful watch. Reminds me of macha tea.
> 
> But, does it really just say "1 out of 100" and not which one out of 100?


Yes. The individual serial number is also engraved on the outer circle of the Caseback. It's very hard to read any of this but here's a quick phone snapshot:


----------



## SISL

More and more limited editions now say "1 of XXX". It was the case for the Czapek X Fratello for example. It makes a lot of sense IMHO.

I love those 62GS limited editions. They're all beautiful.


----------



## Gebbeth

SISL said:


> More and more limited editions now say "1 of XXX". It was the case for the Czapek X Fratello for example. It makes a lot of sense IMHO.
> 
> I love those 62GS limited editions. They're all beautiful.


Honestly, I'd rather it just say something like "Limited Edition. XXX Pieces" or " XXX Piece Limited Edition." It's kind of pointless in a way to say "1 of XXX" if it doesn't indicate which one your's is of that limited run. That was kinda what made that engraving kinda special.


----------



## Cowboy Bebop

Gebbeth said:


> Honestly, I'd rather it just say something like "Limited Edition. XXX Pieces" or " XXX Piece Limited Edition." It's kind of pointless in a way to say "1 of XXX" if it doesn't indicate which one your's is of that limited run. That was kinda what made that engraving kinda special.


Wouldn't it be funny if at some point in 20 years collectors count over that number? We take their word that there are this many but how does one really know for sure lol...

Anyways, I wonder if they picked this nomenclature so that no one starts cherry picking low serial numbers to flip to make profit? I think the way they did it makes it such that all watches are in a sense having the same value? Alternatively? People may begin to look at movement numbers and compare who's earlier and thereby ascertain a time or number from just that? But I think this would be a headache to try and do.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


----------



## SISL

Some people want certain numbers, others do not want certain numbers, there's nothing to be gained by having numbered pieces.


----------



## Robotaz

SISL said:


> Some people want certain numbers, others do not want certain numbers, there's nothing to be gained by having numbered pieces.


Subjective. I couldn’t care less, but other people are into it.


----------



## Xhantos

SISL said:


> Some people want certain numbers, others do not want certain numbers, there's nothing to be gained by having numbered pieces.


As long as there is a regular unique serial number besides the '1 of xxx' marking, I will be totally OK with this.


----------



## bxtime

percysmith said:


> Only two hours ago SBGE277 | Collections | Grand Seiko
> 
> But just looks like another dial/colourway? Same movement (9R66), same dimensions (44mm x 14.7mm).


That SBGE277 with the black rock pattern dial is a stunner.


----------



## quasitime

Was looking at trends last year around this time. We should have a least one more release this year, no?


----------



## bibbibart

quasitime said:


> Was looking at trends last year around this time. We should have a least one more release this year, no?


One may emerge on Friday at the GS9 US Chapter Club meeting in Brooklyn.


----------



## quasitime

Right! Could be a GS9 exclusive then.


----------



## Plus 9Time

quasitime said:


> Was looking at trends last year around this time. We should have a least one more release this year, no?


From around mid-November to the end of 2021 there were 5 new GS models announced (SBGA461, SBGA463, SBGH287, SBGJ253, SBGJ255), so at least a few more would likely be expected.

I would also be expecting at least one, and maybe more, US exclusive models to be announced at the GS9 event on Friday, with a possible US GS9 exclusive model.


----------



## bibbibart

Plus 9Time said:


> From around mid-November to the end of 2021 there were 5 new GS models announced (SBGA461, SBGA463, SBGH287, SBGJ253, SBGJ255), so at least a few more would likely be expected.
> 
> I would also be expecting at least one, and maybe more, US exclusive models to be announced at the GS9 event on Friday, with a possible US GS9 exclusive model.


Anthony, do you anticipate more than one US model still this year?


----------



## Plus 9Time

There have often been multiple US exclusive models announced together, so I would not be surprised if it was more than one model. It is also possible it may be a single GS9 exclusive so we will just have to wait till Friday afternoon to get the answers.


----------



## bibbibart

GS has never released an Evolution 9 Collection piece as a US exclusive model. So my guess is we will see one as the GS9 exclusive on Friday.


----------



## Goyo924

I’m really hoping for a new Evolution 9 model with the 9RA2 movement. For whatever reason, they’ve been severely lacking Evolution 9 models with that movement. Of the core Evolution 9 models in steel or titanium with the newest generation movements, we’ve had 5 hi beats introduced and only 2 Spring Drives.


----------



## bxtime

Expect a new release at the GS9 event this Friday in Brooklyn.


----------



## bibbibart

Just stunning… SBGY023


----------



## quasitime

While I wouldn't call it stunning, I do think it looks great in the last picture.


----------



## WizardofWatch

quasitime said:


> I wouldn't call it stunning


It looks like the market agrees. They are still available on their online store. I would have expected a GS9 exclusive to have a bit more character. This looks a little bland IMO.


----------



## One-Seventy

Still available after 12 hours? Like, totes failure, my dude! 

Interesting dial colour and treatment, nothing I've ever seen before.


----------



## egwatchfan

One-Seventy said:


> Still available after 12 hours? Like, totes failure, my dude!
> 
> Interesting dial colour and treatment, nothing I've ever seen before.


Look - I’m a huge GS fan, but this sums up the net net of so many of their recent releases in my mind. Interesting dial, but not compelling enough for me to buy. 🙁


----------



## CarbonPrevails

egwatchfan said:


> Look - I’m a huge GS fan, but this sums up the net net of so many of their recent releases in my mind. Interesting dial, but not compelling enough for me to buy. 🙁


I completely agree. I love this brand but I’m getting more and more “meh” on all the releases. It’s a nice watch but that’s about all it is.


----------



## Greg75

I like it but will pass because I do not have much use for another dress piece (or really anything else), and this one is just not spectacular enough to me to get me to part with $9k just to have this lovely limited edition. I did think about it, though.


----------



## matthew P

I actually love it. 
The muted green/ grey / brown hues of the dial make for an I interesting watch to me 


..Explorer & Spring Diver - I’m just here for the photos..


----------



## bibbibart

Now that the emotions have calmed down during the cold Nov night, I can admit it is not that stunning as it seemed in the first minutes. 

Still there are design subtleties which I particularly like:

* the flat, narrow outer ring on the dial (1st photo), which does not follow the Kirazuri pattern - previously such a design trick was only applied in SBGY003 (if I’m not missing sth);

** the grey MATTE croc strap - finally not a shiny one + neither black nor blue one, sth innovative (ha ha) from GS. 

Still to be verified as a potential no-go - the color of the seconds hand vs the color of the font on the Spring Drive lettering (2nd photo). The other seems to carry some purple hue on some of the renderings. It would be a clash with the blued seconds’ hand if real.


----------



## whineboy

I've visited Matsumoto Castle - not seeing it here.


----------



## Gebbeth

whineboy said:


> I've visited Matsumoto Castle - not seeing it here.
> 
> View attachment 17042713


I do. The off-white plaster like band right below the rooflines.

But still doesn't compell me. I think GS can do better.


----------



## smghasan7

123joe said:


> The thing is: Rolex for example makes smaller, very wearable sizes for many of its watches. The standard size for the OP and DJ is 36mm, the Sub and GMT Master are 40/41mm, Daytona 40mm. Almost all comparable GS models are 3-4mm bigger in size, with most Heritage models at ~40mm, and divers/chronos at about 44mm.
> 
> There was a 37mm mechanical GS line (I think SBGR251-255), but it seems to have been discontinued in many markets.
> 
> I love GS, and have a 37mm quartz model myself. I would love to see GS being able to shrink sizes by a few mm to have more wearable pieces.
> 
> Of course, GS movements have comparatively long power reserves, high frequency and high accuracy, nonetheless it would be a feat to achieve the same in slighltly smaller models.
> 
> Now, one sometimes has to choose between pure quality (GS) and wearability (Rolex).


Interesting discussion! I do agree that GS generally makes watches that are on the larger side like you, I'm rather they made them a couple mm smaller. However I do feel it's not just the physical size what matters, its how expansive the watch face/dial is. With their SBGR line (40mm) like SBGR321/317 or HiBeat SBGH205/SBGH269, these are all 40mm but their case to dial ratio is much better. The bezel is smaller and crystal size is no more than 32mm which makes them look good even on a 6.25" wrist. This has been missing lately where their bezels are shrinking and dials/watch faces are getting closer to the edge (SBGP001 attached). The 44GS wears large due to tiny bezel. Another case that takes away the dial size is of Snowflake but since it's a 41mm, it's bound to be large anyway and have larger lug to lug closer to 40mm. 

However all's not lost I guess since I'm noticing some nice design choices. On the newly released SBGY009 for instance and others like SBGY011, SLGH013, the crystal is thicker on the edges which makes the dial physically smaller and the watch with 44GS and pretty decent 46.2mm lug to lug, wears wonderfully (pic attached)... So if they bring back SBGH205 or SBGR321 cases or continue to take some dial size away, we smaller sized wrist folks can pull of 40mm GS. PS the Omiwatari is 38.5mm but has crystal size at 32mm and tiny bezel making it wear not so small... It has great lug to lug tho! Note wrist size in pics is 6.25"


----------



## CydeWeys

It's frustrating how some of the best GS watches released over the past year haven't been available to most of us. The way I see it, the "best" releases over the past year are the Ginza SBGH297, Ryusendo SBGK015, the three Thailand LEs (SBGY021, SBGY025, SBGH303), SBGE289, SBGY015, SBGJ269 (maybe), white whirlpool SBGY027, and blue whirlpool SBGY017. Of those, only _one_ (Ryusendo) was available for purchase in the US, and thus that's the only one of this entire list I have. I bought a few other releases this year that were available in the US, but in hindsight, I'd go back and not buy those if I could and instead try to get one of the others mentioned above somehow, even potentially working it into an international vacation as necessary.


----------



## 54B

CydeWeys said:


> It's frustrating how some of the best GS watches released over the past year haven't been available to most of us. The way I see it, the "best" releases over the past year are the Ginza SBGH297, Ryusendo SBGK015, the three Thailand LEs (SBGY021, SBGY025, SBGH303), SBGE289, SBGY015, SBGJ269 (maybe), white whirlpool SBGY027, and blue whirlpool SBGY017. Of those, only _one_ (Ryusendo) was available for purchase in the US, and thus that's the only one of this entire list I have. I bought a few other releases this year that were available in the US, but in hindsight, I'd go back and not buy those if I could and instead try to get one of the others mentioned above somehow, even potentially working it into an international vacation as necessary.


Welcome to the UK experience! Although the SBGY027 was a European edition, they're scarce by all accounts. There's hope for a UK edition coming soon, though. Whilst they are all nice watches, I put them in the same bucket as Rolex - nice to look at but not for me. Thankfully there are plenty of watches that I like and can get (although I do get your frustration)!


----------



## CydeWeys

54B said:


> Welcome to the UK experience! Although the SBGY027 was a European edition, they're scarce by all accounts. There's hope for a UK edition coming soon, though. Whilst they are all nice watches, I put them in the same bucket as Rolex - nice to look at but not for me. Thankfully there are plenty of watches that I like and can get (although I do get your frustration)!


Ironically, I'm actually struggling with getting the GSs that I want much more than Rolex. I already have a good relationship with an AD, so it's just a matter of waiting there, vs something like SBGY027 which I would love to have, but how the hell am I gonna get it? And while I can purchase the SBGY023, it's not exactly what I really want.


----------



## MojoS

54B said:


> Welcome to the UK experience! Although the SBGY027 was a European edition, they're scarce by all accounts. There's hope for a UK edition coming soon, though. Whilst they are all nice watches, I put them in the same bucket as Rolex - nice to look at but not for me. Thankfully there are plenty of watches that I like and can get (although I do get your frustration)!


Couldn’t agree more.

I’ve imported a Thai Seiko LE before, but I’ve not mustered up the courage to buy something Spring drive / high beat from abroad.
Thank god they made the four seasons collections European eventually - I’ve always wanted to try on a 62GS case, and finally got to this year - It’s a shame that those 4 models are the only ones sold in the boutique in london, all the other 62GS releases seem to be limited editions - Ginza. Soko, new Thai LEs, some China releases etc.


----------



## 54B

CydeWeys said:


> Ironically, I'm actually struggling with getting the GSs that I want much more than Rolex. I already have a good relationship with an AD, so it's just a matter of waiting there, vs something like SBGY027 which I would love to have, but how the hell am I gonna get it? And while I can purchase the SBGY023, it's not exactly what I really want.


Well, the one thing that we can be sure of is that Grand Seiko will release more watches with the SBGY case so hopefully they come up with something that's closer to the 027. I bought an SBGY007 a couple of months ago. It's such a nice case and the 9R31 movement is impressively thin and accurate.


----------



## 54B

MojoS said:


> Couldn’t agree more.
> 
> I’ve imported a Thai Seiko LE before, but I’ve not mustered up the courage to buy something Spring drive / high beat from abroad.
> Thank god they made the four seasons collections European eventually - I’ve always wanted to try on a 62GS case, and finally got to this year - It’s a shame that those 4 models are the only ones sold in the boutique in london, all the other 62GS releases seem to be limited editions - Ginza. Soko, new Thai LEs, some China releases etc.


I'm a complete wus (not WIS) when it comes to buying from overseas. I haven't got my head around the taxes and fees. I'm still surprised that GS made the four seasons available outside of the US given that they were so clearly marketed as a US-exclusive, but it works for us.

I really like the Ginza and have been playing with the idea of getting and SBGH201 customised with a pattern representing London. It doesn't have the 62GS case though.


----------



## CydeWeys

54B said:


> Well, the one thing that we can be sure of is that Grand Seiko will release more watches with the SBGY case so hopefully they come up with something that's closer to the 027. I bought an SBGY007 a couple of months ago. It's such a nice case and the 9R31 movement is impressively thin and accurate.


It's not the case I'm attracted to per se in SBGY027 (I already have much the same case in my SBGK015 I believe, and there are other GS case designs I like more). What I'd be going for is that dial.


----------



## CydeWeys

CydeWeys said:


> It's frustrating how some of the best GS watches released over the past year haven't been available to most of us. The way I see it, the "best" releases over the past year are the Ginza SBGH297, Ryusendo SBGK015, the three Thailand LEs (SBGY021, SBGY025, SBGH303), SBGE289, SBGY015, SBGJ269 (maybe), white whirlpool SBGY027, and blue whirlpool SBGY017. Of those, only _one_ (Ryusendo) was available for purchase in the US, and thus that's the only one of this entire list I have. I bought a few other releases this year that were available in the US, but in hindsight, I'd go back and not buy those if I could and instead try to get one of the others mentioned above somehow, even potentially working it into an international vacation as necessary.


Now with inspo pics for all of the above-referenced models. Was there any other exceptionally beautiful / highly sought-after release from 2022 that I failed to mention here? Note that I'm excluding models like the US frost soko special editions, which, while beautiful, and initially hard to get, have since fallen well below retail on the aftermarket (because there isn't a limited supply), and thus these definitely aren't sought-after chase pieces.









SBGH297. (the only one in this list that I'm personally not a big fan of, but enough other people are for it to make the cut anyway; and the aftermarket prices speak for themselves)









SBGK015









SBGH303, SBGY025, SBGY021











SBGE289










SBGY015










SBGJ269











SBGY027











SBGY017


----------



## mitch57

I would have bought this watch in a heart beat if it was available here in the US. No such luck and sellers are asking Rolex prices for them used. Grand Seiko Kyoto Skybridge SBGA435 Limited Edition.

My recently acquired SBGH295 comes in at a close second though.


----------



## bxtime

mitch57 said:


> I would have bought this watch in a heart beat if it was available here in the US. No such luck and sellers are asking Rolex prices for them used. Grand Seiko Kyoto Skybridge SBGA435 Limited Edition.
> 
> My recently acquired SBGH295 comes in at a close second though.


The SBGH295 is a great looking watch. Love the blue dial and the 62GS case.


----------



## Domo

CydeWeys said:


> Now with inspo pics for all of the above-referenced models. Was there any other exceptionally beautiful / highly sought-after release from 2022 that I failed to mention here? Note that I'm excluding models like the US frost soko special editions, which, while beautiful, and initially hard to get, have since fallen well below retail on the aftermarket (because there isn't a limited supply), and thus these definitely aren't sought-after chase pieces.
> 
> View attachment 17056939
> 
> SBGH297. (the only one in this list that I'm personally not a big fan of, but enough other people are for it to make the cut anyway; and the aftermarket prices speak for themselves)
> 
> View attachment 17056940
> 
> SBGK015
> 
> View attachment 17056943
> 
> SBGH303, SBGY025, SBGY021
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 17056945
> 
> SBGE289
> 
> 
> View attachment 17056947
> 
> SBGY015
> 
> 
> View attachment 17056948
> 
> SBGJ269
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 17056950
> 
> SBGY027
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 17056951
> 
> SBGY017


I really really like that *SBGJ269*. I haven't felt the pull to get another GS for a while and then that shows up


----------



## Spiff70

Had the opportunity to have a quick look at the SBGY027 aka "Karesansui". Some poor quality pictures hereunder.


----------



## Plus 9Time

If you like the SBGY027 but want a little more contrast the Bond Street Boutique LE SBGY029 may appeal. The difference is obviously the white vs gray dial.

This is a LE of 50 units and is available only through the new London boutique.


----------



## bibbibart

Spiff70 said:


> Had the opportunity to have a quick look at the SBGY027 aka "Karesansui". Some poor quality pictures hereunder.


Great photos, thank you very much. Where did you have a chance to view it - some GS9 Club Europe event?

BTW - I’ve read that this model will be at ADs since Jan 2nd, 2023. Yet, there is already one for sale on CH24 with a hefty 50% markup…


----------



## Plus 9Time

bibbibart said:


> BTW - I’ve read that this model will be at ADs since Jan 2nd, 2023. Yet, there is already one for sale on CH24 with a hefty 50% markup…


The model appears to be shipping in some countries in December, while other European countries have it listed as a January release.


----------



## bibbibart

There is a very interesting video on YouTube showing how SBGY029 actually looks like. This off-white dial paired with dark brown leather does the job.


----------



## Loevhagen

These Limited Editions.


----------



## One-Seventy

bibbibart said:


> Great photos, thank you very much. Where did you have a chance to view it - some GS9 Club Europe event?
> 
> BTW - I’ve read that this model will be at ADs since Jan 2nd, 2023. Yet, there is already one for sale on CH24 with a hefty 50% markup…


This was supposed to be a UK special first, then wider release next month, to coincide with the opening of a new London boutique (Bond Street. I guess there wasn't enough money in Knightsbridge, although the area has become kind of a dump/ghetto with perma-roadworks, fumes/diesel, no foot traffic, and the biggest single shop in the area is now a triple-decker Starbucks. So not surprising they moved)

I'm guessing the lone example on C24 is a tourist or Brit who lives in France, looking for some tidy rents?

I learned from a friend that the GS9 UK club - which started afer the US club - advertised this to its readers. I'm a member, but interestingly I've heard neither hide nor hair from them, since shortly after joining. No problem - I have now unregistered anyway, so goodbye, GS UK - I won't let the door hit me in the arse on the way out


----------



## bibbibart

One-Seventy said:


> This was supposed to be a UK special first, then wider release next month, to coincide with the opening of a new London boutique (Bond Street. I guess there wasn't enough money in Knightsbridge, although the area has become kind of a dump/ghetto with perma-roadworks, fumes/diesel, no foot traffic, and the biggest single shop in the area is now a triple-decker Starbucks. So not surprising they moved)
> 
> I'm guessing the lone example on C24 is a tourist or Brit who lives in France, looking for some tidy rents?
> 
> I learned from a friend that the GS9 UK club - which started afer the US club - advertised this to its readers. I'm a member, but interestingly I've heard neither hide nor hair from them, since shortly after joining. No problem - I have now unregistered anyway, so goodbye, GS UK - I won't let the door hit me in the arse on the way out


My limited English skills do not allow me to fully understand what you’re saying. Which model was supposed to be a UK special first? SBGY027 or SBGY029?


----------



## psk

Just got my SBGA435 from Japan. I love it


----------



## One-Seventy

bibbibart said:


> My limited English skills do not allow me to fully understand what you’re saying. Which model was supposed to be a UK special first? SBGY027 or SBGY029?


The '029. Although a look at the two of them on the internet... I can't actually tell them apart. Same dials by the look of it, but different straps. Identical cases, for sure. So is it supposed a Bond St launch thing, or not? Who knows, just another LE Grand Seiko!


----------



## 54B

One-Seventy said:


> The '029. Although a look at the two of them on the internet... I can't actually tell them apart. Same dials by the look of it, but different straps. Identical cases, for sure. So is it supposed a Bond St launch thing, or not? Who knows, just another LE Grand Seiko!


The SBGY027 (Europe limited edition) and SBGY029 (UK New Bond St edition) have different straps but also different colour dials. I haven’t seen either in the metal but the dial on the UK version looks like a cream/eggshell colour whereas the Europe version looks more grey.

I received a nice Grand Seiko book via the UK GS9 club. I understood from the GS9 message board that they were gradually sending these out to members. 

I share your fatigue with LE releases though. Personally, I don’t see the need for LE but that could be because I’m not interested in exclusivity and even if I were I rarely meet people wearing any GS let alone the one I’m wearing! Limited Editions seem to be a form of pressure selling to me.


----------



## CydeWeys

psk said:


> Just got my SBGA435 from Japan. I love it
> 
> View attachment 17067936
> 
> 
> View attachment 17067937
> 
> 
> View attachment 17067938
> 
> 
> View attachment 17067939
> 
> 
> View attachment 17067948


That's not SBGA435? SBGA435 looks like this:










Yours has the blizzard texture.

EDIT: Yes, yours is SBGE289.


----------



## CydeWeys

Plus 9Time said:


> If you like the SBGY027 but want a little more contrast the Bond Street Boutique LE SBGY029 may appeal. The difference is obviously the white vs gray dial.
> 
> This is a LE of 50 units and is available only through the new London boutique.
> 
> View attachment 17066685
> 
> View attachment 17066689
> 
> View attachment 17066699
> 
> View attachment 17066698


I preordered SBGY029 after seeing the first image of it from the GS9 UK club email (which got passed around a bit). Now I just have to actually go to London next year to pick it up. Fun.


----------



## egwatchfan

CydeWeys said:


> I preordered SBGY029 after seeing the first image of it from the GS9 UK club email (which got passed around a bit). Now I just have to actually go to London next year to pick it up. Fun.


Are you seriously doing this? Do you travel to London often? Seems pretty heroic but gosh it’s a pretty watch so I half wish I could join you!!! 😂😂😂


----------



## CydeWeys

egwatchfan said:


> Are you seriously doing this? Do you travel to London often? Seems pretty heroic but gosh it’s a pretty watch so I half wish I could join you!!! 😂😂😂


I wouldn't say often, no, but I do travel regularly, and this wouldn't be the worst thing to schedule a little vacation around.


----------



## CydeWeys

Also I do know people there and I can delegate someone to do the pickup for me, so it may end up looking more like someone I know picks up the watch and then later on I get it from them, whenever we happen to be in the same place.


----------



## egwatchfan

CydeWeys said:


> Also I do know people there and I can delegate someone to do the pickup for me, so it may end up looking more like someone I know picks up the watch and then later on I get it from them, whenever we happen to be in the same place.


Yeah that’s the way to do it…. Clearly I need to start making friends in the UK 😂😂😂


----------



## Chrono Brewer

CydeWeys said:


> I preordered SBGY029 after seeing the first image of it from the GS9 UK club email (which got passed around a bit). Now I just have to actually go to London next year to pick it up. Fun.


Dedication!


----------



## psk

CydeWeys said:


> That's not SBGA435? SBGA435 looks like this:
> 
> Yours has the blizzard texture.
> 
> EDIT: Yes, yours is SBGE289.


yes, of course, it's SBGE289

some copy-paste mistake, sorry


----------



## psk

egwatchfan said:


> Are you seriously doing this? Do you travel to London often? Seems pretty heroic but gosh it’s a pretty watch so I half wish I could join you!!! 😂😂😂


I did it as well. Made a family trip to London to pickup a watch. Saved tax on import made up for the whole trip . However, I can have a roud-trip flight for as low as 50, so why not? It was a Rolex though 🤭.


----------



## CydeWeys

psk said:


> I did it as well. Made a family trip to London to pickup a watch. Saved tax on import made up for the whole trip . However, I can have a roud-trip flight for as low as 50, so why not? It was a Rolex though 🤭.


Yeah sadly NYC<->London is not quite that cheap, but it's still not terrible. Lots of directs too.


----------



## bibbibart

CydeWeys said:


> Yeah sadly NYCLondon is not quite that cheap, but it's still not terrible. Lots of directs too.


Sorry for off-topic, but colleagues from NYC may try flynorse.com. They have reasonable prices (if you do not care about high standard) and operate the fleete of 787s.


----------



## psk

what do you think about this one guys?


----------



## bibbibart

psk said:


> what do you think about this one guys?
> 
> View attachment 17071395
> 
> View attachment 17071394


Very handsome. This wave pattern plays here much better than in the recent SBGY021.


----------



## Cowboy Bebop

psk said:


> what do you think about this one guys?
> 
> View attachment 17071395
> 
> View attachment 17071394


This looks great...

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


----------



## tourbillon920

Not that I'd have the opportunity to get my hands on any of the Karesansui models (SBGY017, 027, or 029), but which do folks prefer? I think I'm partial to the 027, as its dial has a shade of grey not seen on other Grand Seikos. I also think it would look best on the 9-link bracelet from the SBGY013.


----------



## matthew P

psk said:


> what do you think about this one guys?
> 
> View attachment 17071395
> 
> View attachment 17071394


I’m not a fan of this model but damm this version looks good 


..Explorer & Spring Diver - I’m just here for the photos..


----------



## egwatchfan

psk said:


> what do you think about this one guys?
> 
> View attachment 17071395
> 
> View attachment 17071394


Wow this is stunning. What’s the reference number?


----------



## psk

egwatchfan said:


> Wow this is stunning. What’s the reference number?


SBGE291, a titanium Nihonbashi Mitsukoshi LE of 25 pcs, due to launch within a week or two


----------



## egwatchfan

psk said:


> SBGE291, a titanium Nihonbashi Mitsukoshi LE of 25 pcs, due to launch within a week or two


Thanks. Not to be a broken record here, but what is going on with all these LEs… it’s making me grumpy. 🙁🙁🙁


----------



## Plus 9Time

The SBGE291 was announced at the 25th Mitsukoshi World Watch Fair back at the start of July and pre-orders were taken at that time. So while it is shipping in December it is not another new LE and is now not going to be available unless you are buying on the second hand market. 

What is unusual is the model is now listed on the main GS Japan website. This is not normally done for store specific LE models, so it is not clear if this is a one off or a possible change to their policy regarding regional LE models with limited distribution.


----------



## egwatchfan

Plus 9Time said:


> The SBGE291 was announced at the 25th Mitsukoshi World Watch Fair back at the start of July and pre-orders were taken at that time. So while it is shipping in December it is not another new LE and is now not going to be available unless you are buying on the second hand market.
> 
> What is unusual is the model is now listed on the main GS Japan website. This is not normally done for store specific LE models, so it is not clear if this is a one off or a possible change to their policy regarding regional LE models with limited distribution.


Ah very good and helpful to know - thanks!!!


----------



## One-Seventy

psk said:


> what do you think about this one guys?
> 
> View attachment 17071395
> 
> View attachment 17071394


Like the mostly monochromatic colour scheme. but it's just an easy repeat of the SBGE277 with a different patterned dial. Completists will happily pay 2x of course, as modern mores dictate.

Case just too big for me. It's snug for its size I suppose as the lugs curve right down, but the bezel is too wide and it's quite a deep watch, 14.something mm. I'd end up knocking it into everything.


----------



## CydeWeys

tourbillon920 said:


> Not that I'd have the opportunity to get my hands on any of the Karesansui models (SBGY017, 027, or 029), but which do folks prefer? I think I'm partial to the 027, as its dial has a shade of grey not seen on other Grand Seikos. I also think it would look best on the 9-link bracelet from the SBGY013.


I'm going with 029 because it has the lightest/brightest color of the three, making it best to see the fine spiraling lines. I suspect the pattern will be more muted on the darker ones, especially in some lighting conditions.


----------



## egwatchfan

CydeWeys said:


> I'm going with 029 because it has the lightest/brightest color of the three, making it best to see the fine spiraling lines. I suspect the pattern will be more muted on the darker ones, especially in some lighting conditions.


Totally agree. It’s most like the SBGY003 which is what I REALLY want but man that’s sure not gonna happen these days…. I’m crossing my fingers GS releases that dial again in a different case or size. 🤞🤞🤞


----------



## S2000_driver

bibbibart said:


> Just stunning… SBGY023


That is really really nice. Let's hope we get more warm grey variants!


----------



## Domo

Plus 9Time said:


> What is unusual is the model is now listed on the main GS Japan website. This is not normally done for store specific LE models, so it is not clear if this is a one off or a possible change to their policy regarding regional LE models with limited distribution.


Not anymore it isn't. Maybe they read your post


----------



## CydeWeys

egwatchfan said:


> Totally agree. It’s most like the SBGY003 which is what I REALLY want but man that’s sure not gonna happen these days…. I’m crossing my fingers GS releases that dial again in a different case or size. 🤞🤞🤞


I'm hopeful that the spiraling-out pattern is ever better. It's a little more complicated, but maybe in a good way. Hard to know for sure until we get these in person.


----------



## tourbillon920

Regarding the SBGY003 vs 029: check this out.


----------



## CydeWeys

tourbillon920 said:


> Regarding the SBGY003 vs 029: check this out.


Oh wow, that's great. Looks like 003 and 029 are extremely similar (in a good way).


----------



## Gebbeth

CydeWeys said:


> Oh wow, that's great. Looks like 003 and 029 are extremely similar (in a good way).
> 
> View attachment 17081793


I like the moire effect the dial gives off.


----------



## Loevhagen

*SBGY011 - It's the perfect evolution of GS/KS*

It's one of the very best GS releases and it's available to the market *today on December 9th*. Here's why it's awesome:


A true historical 45KS case (not 44GS)
A simple dial just as in the old days
Manual wind movement as in the old days - but a true evolution as it's a Spring Drive

It's the perfect evolution of GS/KS. I say GS and KS, because the so called "44GS" case these days is actually a 45KS case if you look back in time. The SBGY011 seems to be the perfect _evolutionary_ issue from GS:












Here is the 45KS case represented by a 45-7000:










Source: 45KS


----------



## 54B

Loevhagen said:


> *SBGY011 - It's the perfect evolution of GS/KS*
> 
> It's one of the very best GS releases and it's available to the market *today on December 9th*. Here's why it's awesome:
> 
> 
> A true historical 45KS case (not 44GS)
> A simple dial just as in the old days
> Manual wind movement as in the old days - but a true evolution as it's a Spring Drive
> 
> It's the perfect evolution of GS/KS. I say GS and KS, because the so called "44GS" case these days is actually a 45KS case if you look back in time. The SBGY011 seems to be the perfect _evolutionary_ issue from GS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the 45KS case represented by a 45-7000:
> 
> View attachment 17082657
> 
> 
> Source: 45KS


Looks fabulous. I'd like to see that slimmer 45KS/44GS case in the metal. I like what Grand Seiko have been doing with the R31 movement.


----------



## CydeWeys

Wow, so SBGY029 has already arrived at the London boutique! Probably won't get my hands on it for a month at least, but it's nice to know they're ready. I assume that means that someone should be posting photos of it soon enough.


----------



## bibbibart

CydeWeys said:


> Wow, so SBGY029 has already arrived at the London boutique! Probably won't get my hands on it for a month at least, but it's nice to know they're ready. I assume that means that someone should be posting photos of it soon enough.


How do you know that? Have they contacted you?


----------



## CydeWeys

bibbibart said:


> How do you know that? Have they contacted you?


Indeed, that's how I know (and the only way I think I could know). They contacted me this past Saturday (!!) saying that they'd already arrived and are ready for pickup.


----------



## egwatchfan

CydeWeys said:


> Wow, so SBGY029 has already arrived at the London boutique! Probably won't get my hands on it for a month at least, but it's nice to know they're ready. I assume that means that someone should be posting photos of it soon enough.


Will they hold it that long for you? I heard through the grapevine that if you don’t pick it up in 14 days they’ll cancel your order and sell to someone else….?


----------



## CydeWeys

egwatchfan said:


> Will they hold it that long for you? I heard through the grapevine that if you don’t pick it up in 14 days they’ll cancel your order and sell to someone else….?


They are. I'm talking with them. They're being lenient because the originally scheduled availability date wasn't for at least another month. Wouldn't be fair to tell me that and then punish me for taking away the watch (that I already paid for in full mind you) just because it arrived early.


----------



## egwatchfan

CydeWeys said:


> They are. I'm talking with them. They're being lenient because the originally scheduled availability date wasn't for at least another month. Wouldn't be fair to tell me that and then punish me for taking away the watch (that I already paid for in full mind you) just because it arrived early.


Phew. Glad to hear it - I was worried for you!!!!


----------



## Loevhagen

Maybe. Maybe not. 2023 will show.


----------



## munichblue

A purple dial would be awesome.


----------



## GrandWatcher

Loevhagen said:


> Maybe. Maybe not. 2023 will show.


They do like green and purple grape (drink) flavours in Japan!


----------



## Duncan_McCloud

psk said:


> what do you think about this one guys?
> 
> View attachment 17071395
> 
> View attachment 17071394


That's a great combination of colors.Thsi would have worked well even if a plain texture dial imo.


----------



## bibbibart

We need more blue & innovative dials in 2023!


----------



## CarbonPrevails

Loevhagen said:


> Maybe. Maybe not. 2023 will show.


I would love a dial like this.


----------



## munichblue

bibbibart said:


> We need more blue & innovative dials in 2023!


Oh my god, it’s one of my all-time favourites. ☺


----------



## bibbibart

Finally a new dial in Grand Seiko and a final (?) chord for 2022. 

SBGH311 - a celebratory model of the 25th anniversary of the 9S calibre. 1.100 pieces, cased in a very rarely used 37mm case. Last seen in the SBGH line probably in the 2018 WAKO exclusive model SBGH241. 

Credits to our forum colleague @plus9time and his IG feed:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CmqStO7vLP0/


----------



## jmariorebelo

bibbibart said:


> Finally a new dial in Grand Seiko and a final (?) chord for 2022.
> 
> SBGH311 - a celebratory model of the 25th anniversary of the 9S calibre. 1.100 pieces, cased in a very rarely used 37mm case. Last seen in the SBGH line probably in the 2018 WAKO exclusive model SBGH241.
> 
> Credits to our forum colleague @plus9time and his IG feed:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CmqStO7vLP0/


Looks interesting, but 13.3mm thick is ridiculous.


----------



## bibbibart

Seems to be another fallstart by GS - the watch has been removed from their sites, although was there in the morning… 🫢


----------



## mitch57

The dial on that watch looks like a drawing that got water damaged.


----------



## quasitime

Definitely trying to understand what I'm looking at with the dial. Mother of Pearl?


----------



## Kakemonster

My hopes for new GS releases this year is a GMT with a sapphire bezel in the 40.5 mm case. Preferably High-Beat.


----------



## bibbibart

I would welcome a moonphase complication. At last.


----------



## Spytap

I just want what I always want: a spring drive with no date and the power gauge on the back in 40mm and 100m WR that doesn’t cost the absolute earth. Just a solid three hander made with precision, care, and artistry that I can wear every day.


----------



## Loevhagen

Spytap said:


> I just want what I always want: a *spring drive* with *no date* and the power *gauge on the back* in *40mm* and *100m WR* that doesn’t cost the absolute earth. Just a solid *three hander made with precision, care, and artistry* that I can wear every day.


Your wish is granted: SBGY011


----------



## Spytap

Loevhagen said:


> Your wish is granted: SBGY011


Well hell. It’s a little more than I had in mind, but it’s pretty much perfect, so I can’t really complain. Time to start saving. Thank you!


----------



## 54B

Loevhagen said:


> Your wish is granted: SBGY011


Good suggestion. It completely passed me by that this has 100m water resistance. That really does set it apart from the SBGY007 (and similar watches), which are still fab.


----------



## Loevhagen

bibbibart said:


> I would welcome a moonphase complication. At last.


Could happen...


----------



## ahonobaka

Throwing in the yearly request for a ~40mm diver while we’re at it


----------



## munichblue

ahonobaka said:


> Throwing in the yearly request for a ~40mm diver while we’re at it


Rather, hell freezes over....🤣


----------



## chas58

ahonobaka said:


> Throwing in the yearly request for a ~40mm diver while we’re at it


You are not alone. I'm sure they are aware of this. Grand Seiko posted this teaser on 4/1/2021. Even has spring drive with the power reserve on the back. At the time, no GS had this wave dial or PR on the rear of a spring drive.


----------



## munichblue

chas58 said:


> You are not alone. I'm sure they are aware of this. Grand Seiko posted this teaser on 4/1/2021. Even has spring drive with the power reserve on the back. At the time, no GS had this wave dial or PR on the rear of a spring drive.
> View attachment 17135763


Thank god this cheap looking mod will never come on the market. 😎


----------



## chas58

munichblue said:


> Thank god this cheap looking mod will never come on the market. 😎


Ironically, GS did come out with something like this a year later, but obviously the pepsi colorway was a joke. And the current diver is not 40mm by any stretch (its almost 44mm, although it wears surprisingly nice (much better than previous models) with the short lug to lug, low center of gravity, and TI construction.


----------



## quasitime

chas58 said:


> Ironically, GS did come out with something like this a year later, but obviously the pepsi colorway was a joke. And the current diver is not 40mm by any stretch (its almost 44mm, although it wears surprisingly nice (much better than previous models) with the short lug to lug, low center of gravity, and TI construction.


I love the look of this watch, it's just really asking a lot to own that. You can almost get 2 other very decent GS pieces for the same price.

Also a 51.5mm lug to lug, maybe even more with the endlink overhang. I'm wondering how big this wears?

Could really go for a 2-3mm smaller all around.


----------



## chas58

quasitime said:


> I love the look of this watch, it's just really asking a lot to own that. You can almost get 2 other very decent GS pieces for the same price.
> 
> Also a 51.5mm lug to lug, maybe even more with the endlink overhang. I'm wondering how big this wears?
> 
> Could really go for a 2-3mm smaller all around.


I agree. you can (I did) buy a couple of nice GS watches for the price of this one. It was the first GS diver I have ever worn that felt good on my 7" wrist. It wears a lot smaller (well more comfortable) than the previous generation divers. Its a big boy though.


----------



## Gebbeth

chas58 said:


> I agree. you can (I did) buy a couple of nice GS watches for the price of this one. It was the first GS diver I have ever worn that felt good on my 7" wrist. It wears a lot smaller (well more comfortable) than the previous generation divers. Its a big boy though.
> 
> View attachment 17136160


Although I do love this watch, they're asking for way too much money retail on this watch. Once there are more on the market, you will see these for $2k to $3k below retail. At that price, it's worth it.

Also, this looks like a Black Birch dial except with the horizontal orientation...or more precisely...a Spring Drive White Birch dial in black with a horizontal orientation.


----------



## munichblue

chas58 said:


> Ironically, GS did come out with something like this a year later, but obviously the pepsi colorway was a joke. And the current diver is not 40mm by any stretch (its almost 44mm, although it wears surprisingly nice (much better than previous models) with the short lug to lug, low center of gravity, and TI construction.
> 
> View attachment 17135946


Comparison between SLGA015 and your mod. Everything what’s wrong:


bezel
bezel inlay
bezel inlay colour
bracelet
case
dial
dial colour
placement of crown
placement of date window
….
Ironically? Something like this? Really? 🤣


----------



## chas58

Gebbeth said:


> Although I do love this watch, they're asking for way too much money retail on this watch. Once there are more on the market, you will see these for $2k to $3k below retail. At that price, it's worth it.
> 
> Also, this looks like a Black Birch dial except with the horizontal orientation...or more precisely...a Spring Drive White Birch dial in black with a horizontal orientation.


The black Birch looking a lot different in person. The biggest difference is the black Birch has texture on top of the dial and the diver has a smooth surface die with texture underneath it.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Gebbeth said:


> Although I do love this watch, they're asking for way too much money retail on this watch. Once there are more on the market, you will see these for $2k to $3k below retail. At that price, it's worth it.
> 
> Also, this looks like a Black Birch dial except with the horizontal orientation...or more precisely...a Spring Drive White Birch dial in black with a horizontal orientation.


SLGA015 has the Lake Suwa (SLGA007), Omiwatari (SBGY007) and SBGY013 dial but in black.

The Birch dial is quite different from this and doesn't look like water.

P.S.: on a side note, imho this "Lake Suwa" dial is their best dial hands down. Especially the blue version (SLGA007).

Quick snap of mine:


----------



## Rodentman

I'm a recent convert to the brand. Got these 2 and am working on a deal for the HiBeat 80 hour.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

Rodentman said:


> I'm a recent convert to the brand. Got these 2 and am working on a deal for the HiBeat 80 hour.
> 
> View attachment 17136856
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 17136855


That's a good start  

Those quartz GMTs are really sturdy and accurate, I've got the golden version. Can wear for pretty much anything without worries.


----------



## quasitime

Rodentman said:


> I'm a recent convert to the brand. Got these 2 and am working on a deal for the HiBeat 80 hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 17136855


Have you had a chance to handle or see the Icy Hi-Beat in person? Just wondering how it looks vs product shots and your impressions.


----------



## Xhantos

Just realized the price revision coming on January 23 (announced December 29th), can't say I'm happy.

2022年12月29日トピックス価格改定のお知らせ
(via News | グランドセイコー公式サイト )


----------



## One-Seventy

Euron Greyjoy said:


> That's a good start
> 
> Those quartz GMTs are really sturdy and accurate, I've got the golden version. Can wear for pretty much anything without worries.


Same here (the blue one - and the choice was tough!). It fits under a cuff, if that's still a thing, and ticks every other box for a daily wear watch. It's got a bit scuffed now but I'm not going to worry about it. Between this and a Zenith I find myself wearing little else these days.


----------



## 54B

quasitime said:


> Have you had a chance to handle or see the Icy Hi-Beat in person? Just wondering how it looks vs product shots and your impressions.


I’ve got the SLGH013 Snowscape. I was taken by how much the dial changes as the light bounces of it. It’s also not too blue, but rather white with a touch of blue. I’ve only had the watch for a few weeks so I’m interested to see how the “ever brilliant” steel stands up to daily use.

Here are some pics in different lighting conditions.









































My watch runs around 3.5 secs fast per day. I was hoping for a bit better than that but maybe am spoiled by my Spring Drive!

I love the slimness of this watch compared to my old SBGH201.


----------



## Rodentman

I have not handled the SLHG013. I could go to WOS at the Mall of America but I am disabled and can barely walk. I hobbled in there recently and had to get a security guard to wheel me out in a wheelchair. I had watched extensive videos and have seen GS fir and finish on my other pieces. I am going to my AD today to sell of a few items to get some cash. If I don't wear something, and the thrill is gone, it gets moved on (usually). 

And yes, that SD is a spoiler for accuracy!


----------



## chas58

quasitime said:


> Have you had a chance to handle or see the Icy Hi-Beat in person? Just wondering how it looks vs product shots and your impressions.


Maybe I'm jaded, but I wasn't that impressed. Its probably the kind of thing that delights you more as you wear it (like a lot of GS, it just doesn't come through in pictures). I find that a GS watch can look meh at the AD, but really take on a different personality as I wear it in different ambient conditions.

Its a great dial, but GS has so many amazingly great dials, its hard to choose.


----------



## 54B

Rodentman said:


> I have not handled the SLHG013. I could go to WOS at the Mall of America but I am disabled and can barely walk. I hobbled in there recently and had to get a security guard to wheel me out in a wheelchair. I had watched extensive videos and have seen GS fir and finish on my other pieces. I am going to my AD today to sell of a few items to get some cash. If I don't wear something, and the thrill is gone, it gets moved on (usually).
> 
> And yes, that SD is a spoiler for accuracy!


As much as people love to hate watch YouTubers on WUS, I find videos of watches far more helpful than press pictures. I look forward to seeing whether you get another GS. You've had some amazing watches on your wrist. If I'm not mistaken, I think I've seen a Zenith Defy 21 and Parmigiani Fleurier, amongst others. I'm not sure if you still have them or not but it makes sense to make the watches available to others if your interest in them wanes.


----------



## Rodentman

Yes I still have the Zenith and PF. I moved a Rolex YM and MG and some other stuff recently as they no longer interested me. I find the GS line intriguing and more exciting.


----------



## matthew P

I too have been clamoring for a 40mm GS diver since i got my 029. 
I thought I would love the 015 but it ended up being an easy pass. 
It’s a magnificent watch and I find all the individual redesign elements to be a huge improvement….. but on wrist the watch felt too light/ the cooler black dial seemed to sheen/ high gloss for my taste….. or maybe I just still felt it was too big/ on my wrist with the bracelet on. 

Either way the black birch and blue birch impresses more than I expected. 

My desire to wear my diver on rubber makes the upgrade to any new diver financially questionable at this point in my collecting. 

It may take a smaller / SS / straight black gloss dial at a cheaper price point to shake the 029 out of my collection. 










Still loving the direction the GS is taking the company….. and those new Evo series 9 GMt are magnificent in person…… especially the white which I didn’t think I’d like ?


..Explorer & Spring Diver - I’m just here for the photos..


----------



## quasitime

matthew P said:


> It’s a magnificent watch and I find all the individual redesign elements to be a huge improvement….. but on wrist the watch felt too light/ the cooler black dial seemed to sheen/ high gloss for my taste….. or maybe I just still felt it was too big/ on my wrist with the bracelet on.


I found the same thing with the Black Birch. In AD lighting, it was gleeming like crazy. Well mainly the indices. That's an interesting comment about the "sheen" of the black being too much. With a dial like that, you want the black to soak up more of the light, but still be able to distinguish the waves.


----------



## chas58

quasitime said:


> I found the same thing with the Black Birch. In AD lighting, it was gleeming like crazy. Well mainly the indices. That's an interesting comment about the "sheen" of the black being too much. With a dial like that, you want the black to soak up more of the light, but still be able to distinguish the waves.


Agreed, I found the sheen of the diver to be more subtle than I expected, partially because the texture was under the dial and not on top. But with GA specifically I feel the dial changes so much in different lighting conditions and at an AD that sharp overhead lighting really makes them look different than they look in daily life.


----------



## TCWU

Xhantos said:


> Just realized the price revision coming on January 23 (announced December 29th), can't say I'm happy.
> 
> 2022年12月29日トピックス価格改定のお知らせ
> (via News | グランドセイコー公式サイト )


both prices included 10% tax
my SBGA211 list price without tax went up 70,000 yen
not sure when other regions will do the price adjustment?
or still keep the same list?


----------



## MojoS

TCWU said:


> both prices included 10% tax
> my SBGA211 list price without tax went up 70,000 yen
> not sure when other regions will do the price adjustment?
> or still keep the same list?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 17139089


Perhaps a slightly dumb question, because ADs / Boutiques will probably do whatever they want, BUT, what happens to the already purchased stock at an AD? Surely they’ve already paid outright for their units - so if there is seiko issues a price increase then the ADs margins on already paid for inventory go up immediately. Point of this question being, are they ADs likely to be hard arses and stick to the new pricing (not including brand new releases) or are they likely to accept a ‘discount’ and sell for previous MSRP or under? (Not including GS boutiques, as I people have said elsewhere that they aren’t keen on bartering in the slightest)

I’ve been selling a couple pieces aiming to eventually clear some space and raise funds for a four seasons - an extra £600isn’t the end of the world, but hardly ideal.


----------



## Rodentman

FWIW Rolex AD's that I know of will raise prices on inventory already in stock after a Rolex increase. Of course now there is no stock.

If I understand the price increases on GS correctly, the SLGH013 goes from 1,100,000 Yen to 1,210,00 = from $9,500 to $10,450 assuming those prices apply in the US. Anyway, I got mine for $8,700 no tax or shipping BNIB .It is due here today. I know it won't be as accurate as the SD but that's ok. In rotation it won't be a problem.

I get confused about the cases. I have the SBGN019 and SLGA009 as well as the SLGH013 which is coming. I think all 3 cases are different, if not in size, then in finishing. I am careful with my stuff so none of them will get beat up.


----------



## Gebbeth

Unless the price has been agreed to between buyer and AD, I think unsold inventory prices go up as well.

Which seems to be an incentive to keep in-demand watches in inventory if ADs know a price increase is around the corner. I don't know how price increases are communicated, but I'm sure ADs will know in advance of the public.


----------



## Euron Greyjoy

matthew P said:


> Either way the black birch and blue birch impresses more than I expected.


Did you mean the green birch?


----------



## GrandWatcher

Celebrating 25 years of the calibre 9S

SBGH311 Mt Iwate Sea of Clouds (Limited to 1200). Of the two, this is my favourite. From photos the dial appears to be a course marbling pattern. I would love to see this dial on a 44gs case (37-38mm) and quartz movement, or other combination.










SBGR325 Mt Iwate Blue Sky (Limited to 1200)


----------



## bibbibart

As mentioned in my post #2304, this 37mm case dial is very rare. Grand Seiko has just confirmed that they bring this case to the global market for the first time ever. 

Below some more photos. I’m on the fence with the marble dial. It can be both - a terrific or a terrible one. You never know with GS’s renders…

SBGR325 may be a beauty in its clean form and hue.


----------



## alde

bibbibart said:


> As mentioned in my post #2304, this 37mm case dial is very rare. Grand Seiko has just confirmed that they bring this case to the global market for the first time ever.
> 
> Below some more photos. I’m on the fence with the marble dial. It can be both - a terrific or a terrible one. You never know with GS’s renders…
> 
> SBGR325 may be a beauty in its clean form and hue.


The blue one is gorgeous. Thank you for sharing!


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Oy, I thought we were done with these rotors obstructing 90% of the movement.


----------



## GrandWatcher

Chrono Brewer said:


> Oy, I thought we were done with these rotors obstructing 90% of the movement.


An eyesore for me. Looks like a kid's toy / fidget spinner. Does not line up well with the elegance of the GS design.


----------



## thewatchidiot

I don’t know but 13.3 is really thick on 37mm. Too thick for me to wear comfortably


----------



## egwatchfan

thewatchidiot said:


> I don’t know but 13.3 is really thick on 37mm. Too thick for me to wear comfortably


Yep spot on… should be much thinner at 37mm. Also the dials aren’t doing much for me to be quite honest. I love the concept of the smaller case diameter though.


----------



## drhr

thewatchidiot said:


> I don’t know but 13.3 is really thick on 37mm. Too thick for me to wear comfortably


As pretty as that blue dial looks, same thought for me . . . .


----------



## quasitime

Is 13.3 really too thick on these guys? I'm asking because for example I've seen reviews for the automatics SBGR251 and SBGR253 which share the same dimensions, and seem to be glowing. 









My beautiful new SBGR253 and its dynamic black dial


Hello! I recently downsized my collection from 10 watches down to 3, and used the funds from the 7 I sold to purchase one of my grails - a Grand Seiko SBGR253. This is the 37mm variant with the 9S65A automatic movement and I couldn't be happier! I knew I wanted this one back when I found the...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## chas58

thewatchidiot said:


> I don’t know but 13.3 is really thick on 37mm. Too thick for me to wear comfortably


Agreed.

I've gone out of my way to get slim GS watches, and sold them when they are too Thicc (i.e. snowflake). Just measuring the metal, my favorites are 10-11mm thick (although listed thickness is often higher, including embossing and crystal).

But geeze, 13.3mm on a 37mm case??? 
I've had GS that are top heavy, and those that have a low CG. Sometimes they fit differently on wrist than the numbers indicate. The problem with these LE's is its hard to try them on before you buy.


----------



## thewatchidiot

chas58 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I've gone out of my way to get slim GS watches, and sold them when they are too Thicc (i.e. snowflake). Just measuring the metal, my favorites are 10-11mm thick (although listed thickness is often higher, including embossing and crystal).
> 
> But geeze, 13.3mm on a 37mm case???
> I've had GS that are top heavy, and those that have a low CG. Sometimes they fit differently on wrist than the numbers indicate. The problem with these LE's is its hard to try them on before you buy.


 So true! However, if it’s tolerable for some doesn’t matter to me. Fat is fat and unrefined as an overall package.


----------



## thewatchidiot

quasitime said:


> Is 13.3 really too thick on these guys? I'm asking because for example I've seen reviews for the automatics SBGR251 and SBGR253 which share the same dimensions, and seem to be glowing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My beautiful new SBGR253 and its dynamic black dial
> 
> 
> Hello! I recently downsized my collection from 10 watches down to 3, and used the funds from the 7 I sold to purchase one of my grails - a Grand Seiko SBGR253. This is the 37mm variant with the 9S65A automatic movement and I couldn't be happier! I knew I wanted this one back when I found the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com


I once owned the sbgr305. Beautiful watch and thick as a brick for me. I know that thickness is the number one measurement in knowing how I’ll like the fit. So I also don’t trust everything I hear or read. Many reviewers are incented for their reviews and may sugar coat some elements. However, your needs are different from mine so my comments may not have value to you


----------



## quasitime

thewatchidiot said:


> I once owned the sbgr305. Beautiful watch and thick as a brick for me. I know that thickness is the number one measurement in knowing how I’ll like the fit. So I also don’t trust everything I hear or read. Many reviewers are incented for their reviews and may sugar coat some elements. However, your needs are different from mine so my comments may not have value to you


This is really good feedback, I appreciate it.
I wonder though, the SBGR305 would definitely wear larger at 40.5mm across and 47mm lug to lug.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

thewatchidiot said:


> Fat is fat and unrefined as an overall package.


I feel the same but learned to be careful where I say it.

Aside, are you the same Watch Idiot who nearly convinced me to get an X-33 with a YouTube review?


----------



## thewatchidiot

quasitime said:


> This is really good feedback, I appreciate it.
> I wonder though, the SBGR305 would definitely wear larger at 40.5mm across and 47mm lug to lug.


true, but the diameter is inconsequential compared to the thickness On that one. I never saw it’s width as problematic for me but the thickness was. I also believe that a slightly larger case can handle thickness better than small case can but that’s just how I see them on my wrist. 



Chrono Brewer said:


> I feel the same but learned to be careful where I say it.
> 
> Aside, are you the same Watch Idiot who nearly convinced me to get an X-33 with a YouTube review?


No but I’m sure we’re equals in being idiots. However, I’ve always thought of that watch as wonderful, based on reviews of course. Is it?


----------



## quasitime

Here's a video introduction I found on these two new released:






The dial on the high beat is really impressive, but it definitely looks like a chonky fellow.


----------



## Loevhagen

I'll wait for rhe next GS release instead. Probably just 2-3 week away.


----------



## Gebbeth

bibbibart said:


> As mentioned in my post #2304, this 37mm case dial is very rare. Grand Seiko has just confirmed that they bring this case to the global market for the first time ever.
> 
> Below some more photos. I’m on the fence with the marble dial. It can be both - a terrific or a terrible one. You never know with GS’s renders…
> 
> SBGR325 may be a beauty in its clean form and hue.


These rotors suck. I mean, this looks almost childish, like one of those Bay Blade toys.


----------



## mitch57

Gebbeth said:


> These rotors suck. I mean, this looks almost childish, like one of those Bay Blade toys.


Agreed! The rotors suck! The dial on the SBGH311 is the UGLIEST watch dial I've ever seen. It looks like a drawing that got water damaged.


----------



## Tpp3975

These both look ridiculous from the side view. Bizarre proportions.


----------

