# HELP - PAM 000 stolen / scammed



## roach7

Hello, I sold a new PAM 000 to someone in Toronto and now her check bounced after 4 weeks! My bank specifically told me it's safe to ship after about 2 weeks now I'm out of a watch and my bank balance is negative. Is there anything I can do?!?


Here's the watch info, please look out for it:


PAM 000
OP 6728
PB 0607328
M0816/1500


I have the buyer's email, bounced check, address and phone. Is there anything useful I can do with this information?


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Thank you


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## bobamarkfett

Contact the police. She's passing bad checks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## roach7

Yes, I will file a local police report as well as the police dept of Toronto


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## lovebandit

I don't know if you have any recourse but you counted on your bank's advice which turned out to be WRONG and misleading. Shouldn't they have some culpability here?


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## roach7

Yes, I'm going to fight the bank. I specifically asked them whether the payment can bounce after 2 weeks and they said it's impossible. They said if that's how banks work then they'll all be out of business. WELL, the payment bounced after 4 weeks!!! They should be totally liable. If they had said there's a slim chance it can still bounce then I would've waited even longer. I just can't believe the bank would tell me it's OK when there's a chance it won't be. So pissed!


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## Vlance

That sucks man! I hope you get it sorted soon.


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## johneh

I posted the watch info on CWC, which is a Canadian forum for watch sales/talk/trades within Canada. I check out the forums on a dialy basis so if it shows up there I will certainly see it.

If anything comes up I (or another member) will let you know.


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## roach7

Thanks johneh!

Should I post some personal info on this perp?


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## TradeKraft

Depending on the return reason a check can "bounce" for up to a year. I would engage your bank's Financial Crimes Department. They'll likely request a copy of the police report but may refund you the money depending on their research and the situation.
This is also a benefit to large banks vs credit unions, they have the clout and resources to perform a proper investigation, recall the funds, and apply pressure to the issuing financial institution if necessary.


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## roach7

Yes, my bank will launch an investigation once I obtain a police report which I'm going to do. They had no idea how an un-signed check can be deposited into my account from a foreign country. So I'm still going to hold them responsible for allowing this to happen.


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## tcpx

Holy crap, I am sorry to hear that. Wow, that's sickening... I hope it all works out in the end and please do keep us posted and best of luck..


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## bloody watches

Go straight to your lawyer, let him deal with your bank, it will be faster, they will then start and investigation (regardless of a police report) its a lot less painful, it will cost, but you will get your money.


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## Toothbras

care to share which bank?


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## roach7

My bank - Citibank
His bank - Bank of Nova Scotia


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## Toothbras

roach7 said:


> My bank - Citibank
> His bank - Bank of Nova Scotia


Thanks, no Citibank for me!


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## roach7

I'm now leaning towards using Chase which is my other acct...


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## txfordguy

roach7 said:


> I'm now leaning towards using Chase which is my other acct...


That's pretty much strictly who I use for anything. In my experience they'll take care of you there.


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## mjrchabot

Very sorry to hear about your situation! I hope you get it resolved. 
I work for a Canadian bank and it can take up to 20 business days for a US cheque to clear up here in Canada. So it's no surprise that the minimum hold for a US cheque in Canada is 15 business days to prevent situations like this. 
As others have said, there can be multiple reasons why a cheque returns and I've seen them return months after the initial deposit.


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## greenalk1971

roach7 said:


> They had no idea how an un-signed check can be deposited into my account from a foreign country. So I'm still going to hold them responsible for allowing this to happen.


Not to sound terribly rude here, but if I'm reading this correctly, you received a personal check in the value of several thousand dollars from an out of country individual and you didn't look it over carefully enough to see if it had a signature on it? And the bank is at fault?


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## roach7

mjrchabot said:


> Very sorry to hear about your situation! I hope you get it resolved.
> I work for a Canadian bank and it can take up to 20 business days for a US cheque to clear up here in Canada. So it's no surprise that the minimum hold for a US cheque in Canada is 15 business days to prevent situations like this.
> As others have said, there can be multiple reasons why a cheque returns and I've seen them return months after the initial deposit.


Correct, CITI should not have told me the payment is good


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## roach7

greenalk1971 said:


> Not to sound terribly rude here, but if I'm reading this correctly, you received a personal check in the value of several thousand dollars from an out of country individual and you didn't look it over carefully enough to see if it had a signature on it? And the bank is at fault?


Not rude at all, I never received the check. I would not have accepted any checks at all. I asked for bank wire and the scammer deposited the check under my name without signature.


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## ccapri

Sorry to hear this happened to you.

Apparently is a common scam:

OCC: Avoiding Cashier's Check Fraud

Two months ago, I attended to a conference about scams and international trading, and there are some checks that can be bounce after two years!!! (at least here in Europe)
So their recommendation was to avoid this type of checks (I don't remember, right now, the specific name).

What I can't understand is the first answer of your bank, as this is a known and, sadly, not infrequent ,scam.

Sarcasm + ignorance = dumb banker >>>> change your bank ASAP!!! :rodekaart


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## greenalk1971

roach7 said:


> Not rude at all, I never received the check. I would not have accepted any checks at all. I asked for bank wire and the scammer deposited the check under my name without signature.


I see, interesting. Then the bank is definitely at fault. Most banks won't let people deposit checks onto other peoples accounts without the account holders permission.


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## El @

greenalk1971 said:


> I see, interesting. Then the bank is definitely at fault. Most banks won't let people deposit checks onto other peoples accounts without the account holders permission.


Citi US does. Just walk into branch, and deposit checks or cash into anyone's account of which you know the number. Can also deposit checks by mail from anywhere.


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## mjrchabot

Any updates on making any progress with Citi?


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## roach7

CITI claims there's no crime committed so I'm still out $4800... Any lawyers here that can chime in as to if I have grounds to sue Citi? Thx


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## iBleedGarnet

Anything positive ever come of this?


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## Cowvin

What's the point of Checks if they can bounce for that long a period afterwards?...


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## roach7

I have a court date with Citibank in April 2016. Hoping for the best.

Just a reminder if you're going to accept a check for payment, better wait at least a month before you ship out the product.


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## cba191

Why accept checks at all? PayPal is a little more expensive, but it seems to be far safer.


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## roach7

Bank wire would be the safest option for sellers


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## wx_073

Sorry to hear that.....


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## achilles

roach7 said:


> Bank wire would be the safest option for sellers


But Bank wire may not be the safest option for buyers...

Sorry to hear of your problem.


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## Cranworth

It's an interesting problem. I won't take anything but PayPal or a wire, and wouldn't consider a cashier's cheque or bank draft. It's asking a lot for a buyer to send a wire.


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## El @

Cranworth said:


> It's an interesting problem. I won't take anything but PayPal or a wire, and wouldn't consider a cashier's cheque or bank draft. It's asking a lot for a buyer to send a wire.


Using Paypal for goods purchase a fraudster buyer has 6 months to claim for any reason he may like. It's an even clever scam much harder to prove for a seller.


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