# Glycine Airman quality vs. Combat Sub Quality? Help me decide



## AndrewMPatrick

Hi! After a good summer of work, I've decided to spoil myself with a new watch before sophomore year of college. I have only had two seiko watches before, a chronograph and seiko five. Both are good watches but neither of the watches style and quality seems to please me anymore. I have been looking at the glycine airmans and combat subs, and I am in love with both of them. I wanted to pulled the trigger on a combat sub with the black rubber strap but I have heard that the quality compared to the airman is not the same with the combat sub because of the new ownership. I have been told that the airman would be a much better purchase, but at $600+ it is a little more than I would like to spend. The $400 price point of the combat sub seemed perfect. I really like the combat sub and the price point, but I am unsure if it would be a good purchase. 

Can anyone fill me in on the quality of the combat sub, anyone that has owned one before? I really would like to get one, if it is the right purchase.

I have looked at the Hamilton khaki fields, and khaki king autos, which are nice. But I feel like the design of the glycine's are alot better. The Hamiltons are alot cheaper (~320 after discount), I am unsure if the quality of the Glycine or Hamilton would be better however. 

Any help would be great! I look forward to owning my first mid tier- high end watch soon! Personally I think Glycine and Hamilton are two of the best brands for watches in this price range. Any help helping me decide which watch to get would be appreciated, Thanks!

(Side Note: I have a fairly small wrist, so 42mm is also the highest diameter watch I would wear.
Also, I really enjoy a quality rubber strap such as the combat sub, and will likely get a rubber strap for the watch I end up buying.)

Links to the watches I am referring to: 
Glycine combat sub black dial with black silicone strap ~400-475
Glycine airman black dial ~450-650
Hamilton Khaki King Auto ~320


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## Cigarbob

I have several Airman, and one Combat Sub. The Airman is a great piece, with a fascinating history. Nothing else quite like it. I would say that it is certainly worth the extra money.

But if you really want a Combat Sub, they too are very nice watches. I have a Certina DS Action Diver, and find it and the Glycine to be of similar quality.

There's a bit of hysteria about Glycine being purchased by Invicta. Most of the problems people have with their watches these days get blamed on Invicta, even though the models are usually pre acquisition. 

I think that current Glycines are just fine. You'll be happiest just getting the watch you really want.


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## AndrewMPatrick

Yea I'm tempted to just get an airman and pay a little extra. But it sucks to have the feeling that I'm buying a watch that is tied to Invicta. I just can't stand their brand.


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## Cigarbob

AndrewMPatrick said:


> Yea I'm tempted to just get an airman and pay a little extra. But it sucks to have the feeling that I'm buying a watch that is tied to Invicta. I just can't stand their brand.


Then it would appear that I'm wasting my time even discussing this with you.

Invicta!!!
Invicta!!!
Invicta!!!

I might suggest that you also avoid Omega and Blancpain.

Swatch!!!
Swatch!!!
Swatch!!!


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## ccwatchmaker

Don't forget Hamilton, not to mention Tissot, Longines, Rado, Breguet, Certina, Mido, Harry Winston, Glashutte, and other
lesser known brands in addition to being the maker of the ETA movements that are found in many Glycine models. All are products of the SWATCH Group.

James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


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## Barry S

Cigarbob said:


> Then it would appear that I'm wasting my time even discussing this with you.
> 
> Invicta!!!
> Invicta!!!
> Invicta!!!
> ]





AndrewMPatrick said:


> ...I have heard that the quality compared to the airman is not the same with the combat sub because of the new ownership.


This is the point where I just stopped reading.


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## Cigarbob

Barry S said:


> This is the point where I just stopped reading.


The really sad thing is that I would bet that he would have loved a Glycine.

Great history, wonderful watches, and in the world of the millionth boring Sub homage, something really interesting.

But it's perhaps it's cooler to hate Invicta than to get a watch you might love...


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## Wovoka

I have a Glycine Airman - 46mm, which from what you said is too large for your wrist - as well as matching rose gold & stainless Pilot sixes (39mm & 42mm) for my wife and myself. 
Not that it matters much, but my Airman has 21 jewels compared with 23 for the Pilot 6, which I think has the same movement as the Combat Sub. 
All three are within a second or two of my radio controlled Eco-Drive.

That being said, I'd join others in urging you to ante up 6 bills for an Airman. I tried on a 39mm, which was a bit small for my wrist but might be about right for you. 
While your buds might not even notice your watch, you'll have the satisfaction of wearing a piece of aviation history!


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## AndrewMPatrick

Your spinning my feeling towards glycine. I am not say that I wont get one because of the ties to Invicta, just that it made me uneasy. At the moment the glycine is looking to be the choice that I go with. You act as if I decided not to buy one already. That is not the case. 

I know the Airman quality will always be great, I was reffering to invicta in the combat subs situation, not the airman.


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## Aleskb

I've never owned a Combat Sub but own an Airman DC-4 Purist. What I can say from top of my head in reply to your question, in bullet points: 
- The overall quality of the Airman feels great. However don't expect a bezel that feels as substantial on a diver, my initial feeling with it was that it felt "cheap", after wearing the watch for a month or so I'd just say it feels "different and less substantial". The mechanism is very different from a diver watches bezel, so it takes a bit of time to get used to it if you're used to diver watches mostly
- The lume on my Airman is underwhelming, making it hardly useable in every day life. 
- For the rest, it's a superb watch, that gets the most time in my rotation since owning it (my 2 others are a Seiko SBDC003 Blumo and an SARB017 Alpinist, which I both also love)
- Without being a total strap monster, the Airman fits with a lot of different straps, and should enable you to wear it a lot depending on what you dress it with: Nato, leather strap, etc.. 
- If I am correct, the Combat Sub comes with a modified ETA 28-24, while the Airman comes with a modified 28-93. Readers please correct me, but I am under the impression that the 28-93 is a step up compared to the 24? 
- The Combat Sub is a diver watch, for which you litterally have hundreds of different options from several brands to fill that spot in your collection. Seiko in particular offers 10s of different models at different price points, but you can also look at the Orient Mako, etc... To me, the only things that make the Combat Subs stand out are some of the color choices on some models, and the fact that it's thinner than most other divers. 
- The Airman, on the other hand, is a watch that packs a lot of specificities that you'll struggle to find elsewhere at such a modest price point: 24 hours dial, very different vintage style, a very elegant see-through case-back, a great aviation heritage, and a great ETA movement at a very cheap price. It is also water resistant to 200 metre, so you can swim with it with a non leather strap.

In conclusion, and on the paper without having seen a combat sub in real life, the Airman gives me the impression to be much better value for money despite its higher price, as it fills more sweet and rare spots in a collection, and therefore more likely to be a keeper in the long run imho. Also, if you care about heritage in horology, Glycine is an aviation brand before all, not a diver one. So I'd always be more encline to buy a pilot watch from the brand, and look elsewhere in a brand with a specific heritage for a diver.

If it helps, here is a picture of my Airman on a leather strap (gives you an idea versus the NATO it comes with), and a link to the review I make of it. I absolutely adore it, despite its few down sides I highlighted above.









https://smalltoysforgrownmen.wordpress.com/2017/07/25/glycine-airman-dc-4-gl0071-review/

Hope this helps! Whichever you buy, enjoy it, and leave the Invicta thing behind. As I mention in my review, I had the same irrational questioning as you when buying mine, but 6 weeks into owning it, I can tell you there's absolutely nothing to worry about. Which reminds me I should update my review in that sense, re-reading it, there are some negatives that are more accentuated than the watch deserves.


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## cgrey2

AndrewMPatrick said:


> I was reffering to invicta in the combat subs situation, not the airman.


It's tiring for Glycine fans to keep reading about an "invicta situation" without any actual evidence. The claim that Invicta is doing this or might do that to Glycine gets asserted often enough and newcomers to the forum begin to believe there is something factual going on here. To this point, it is all supposition and bias.


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## scooter1

cgrey2 said:


> It's tiring for Glycine fans to keep reading about an "invicta situation" without any actual evidence. The claim that Invicta is doing this or might do that to Glycine gets asserted often enough and newcomers to the forum begin to believe there is something factual going on here. To this point, it is all supposition and bias.


I heard that the first things Invicta did was completely retool the Glycine production line with stuff that has a 5 time worse tolerance, and cut two fingers off the right hand of every Glycine watchmaker. They were at least nice enough to offer the watchmakers a choice about which fingers.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk


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## Aleskb

Well, if a brand has bad rep, I find it somehow natural that people would raise questions if it purchases another brand with good rep. As long as it doesn't go as far as deterring people from pulling the trigger, I don't see anything abnormal/ridiculous about it. This being said, it's true that Fiat owned Ferrari for a long time, without the later ending up looking like Fiat 500s. 

Also, I believe most of the hate for Invicta goes for their often horrible designs, not about the quality of their watches. Recently TGV reviewed an Invicta Sub hommage that he actually found to be of very good value for money. 

So basically, I'm not too concerned (anymore) about a possible quality impact on the existing Glycine line after the Invicta purchase. The only difference I've managed to see on the Airman DC-4 is that the lugs are not drilled anymore. This being said, I remain curious to see what kind of new Glycine lines this Invicta collaboration will bring. There has already been an update to the Airman line (while the older versions remain available so it's so far optional) which left me rather cold to its appeal. So it will be great to have this discussion in a couple of years, once we'll know more about the impact the Invicta purchase will have design-wise.


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## Osteoman

I just bought this one and received it last week.

I love it.

Thus far, it picks a second up while on during the day and loses a second each night while off ending dead on accurate each morning. Slightly better then my COSC certified Mido and I only paid $349 for the Glycine.

I don't care who owns the company, this was a deal and I would buy either of the watches you like in a split second.










Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## AndrewMPatrick

Osteoman said:


> I just bought this one and received it last week.
> 
> I love it.
> 
> Thus far, it picks a second up while on during the day and loses a second each night while off ending dead on accurate each morning. Slightly better then my COSC certified Mido and I only paid $349 for the Glycine.
> 
> I don't care who owns the company, this was a deal and I would buy either of the watches you like in a split second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


Wow thats a awesome price. Did you get it new or used?


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## Osteoman

AndrewMPatrick said:


> Wow thats a awesome price. Did you get it new or used?


New through the Gooroo.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## ImranD

I haven't owned a combat sub but do have the Airman 18 and SST 12 (pics posted below). Though I regret not getting the Pumpkin as opposed to the blue SST12, they are both sensational watches and glad to get my hands on these two with the old Glycine logo. As a personal preference, I don't like the new logo and the new designs, whether they're an Invicta influence or otherwise.

The Airman 18 which I have is an extremely versatile watch and can get its way being either a dress watch or a causal one, at least from the way I've seen it look.

I have a DC-4 purist on the way and from the looks of it, I absolutely love the watch and can't wait to get my hands on it.

Long story short, you won't regret getting a good airman!

Good luck with your decision.

Airman 18









SST 12!


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## Trevor M

The choice between a Combat Sub and an Airman is really one of personal taste. I chose an Airman over a Combat Sub because the Airman (in classic form) is a watch that is its own thing and doesn't try and look like anything else. It also has an incredible history which was criminally downplayed by Glycine themselves, which included extensive military use and even space trips strapped side by side with the Omega Speedmaster. The 24 hour dial version (DC-4) is a watch for the ages. It doesn't have any real competitors or rivals unless you pay many times the money. To give the Combat Sub credit, it does do enough to distinguish itself in a crowded market of similar watches, and it is laudable that it doesn't pump up the case thickness for no reason so it is nice and thin and wearable. The big new 46mm size is questionable in my opinion, but the 42mm looks excellent.

What I will also say is that the Glycine I have and those I have read about from reputable reviewers are all very accurate, within a few seconds a day (mine is always within 3 so I only set the time once a month when I usually have to change the date, anyhow). The Hamilton can't hope to compete with that excellent regulation and extra care that Glycine has obviously been putting in to making the watches work as well as possible before releasing. 

As for Invicta's influence, it can be a good thing or a bad thing. They said "hands off" but changes were quickly made to various lines. It has been a bad thing for the Double Twelve Airman which was launched just before the Invicta takeover. The looks were made less "classic" and the nice modest size of 40mm was jumped up a bit and the water resist of 200m was cut down to 100m. Now I'm not saying it's no longer a good watch, it may well be. But it was certainly changed in significant ways as as soon as Invicta took over. My A.D. bought Double Twelve was made just before the Invicta takeover was just $400 as the dealer cleared stock for the new version. I cannot imagine it being possible to ever buy a watch of this quality and accuracy and original appearance and "heritage" again at that price! I cannot speak for the Invicta era Combat Subs. If you look around you will likely find a few very recent reviews? What you will find are older reviews of the watch that mostly rave about value for money.

Mass Drop, by the way, has 5 days left on Combat Subs. Fantastic deal. Free shipping. I don't have anything to do with Mass Drop.


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## PetrosD

I have a Hamilton Khaki Field (42mm) and a Glycine Airman DC-4 GMT (also 42mm). While I think the design of the Glycine is more distinctive, I think the quality of the Hamilton is better, IMO. The Glycine just doesn't feel as solid, and I have a minor quality issue that isn't worth sending in for warranty repair. I have heard the same issues with the Combat Sub but I don't have one. Frankly, after being underwhelmed by the build quality of my Glycine, I am not considering them for future purchases (with one possible exception, if I can find a pre-owned Airman 1953 LE, although I am still a bit wary).


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## Trevor M

Wow, I like the looks of that Airman 18, Imran!


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## Goodfellas

I will avoid the conversation about Glycine models. I will however, make a general comment. I (and I can't see how anyone else here can say that they) have no first hand knowledge of any changes in the production process at Glycine. The issue in my mind is that "perception is reality" so it doesn't make much difference whether or not the quality of the Glycine line has changed. If you plan on buying this watch and never parting with it, my point is irrelevant. If however, you consider the possibility of trading it one day, you may want to factor this into your decision. If Invicta does eventually stick its nose into the Glycine production line, quality is likely to be affected. If they stay out of it but consumers "believe" that they have had an impact, perception will be a factor in the resale market. Just something to consider. 

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


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## Cigarbob

Hard to know what the long term resale value of most watches will be. 

But currently on Watch Recon all of the Airman up for sale are actually higher than they were being sold new during the recent sales. 

So you can currently probably flip one for a slight to decent profit. 

The Airman #1s look to be asking for about a 40% markup from what we were buying them for new. That's remarkable. (Makes me think about how much wrist time mine gets).

The Combat 6, 7, and Subs are showing a resale price for less, but about in line with the losses you would see with other relatively inexpensive Swiss watches.


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## ImranD

Trevor M said:


> Wow, I like the looks of that Airman 18, Imran!


I love it too!


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## tterral

I just received a Combat Sub (with vanilla scented rubber strap, which is a little much for me, but I digress) from Glycine Direct on the "Bay" and I'm a little concerned about the watch. The watch looks fine, but the bezel seems to have too much back play on it, more so than my Tag or Victorinox divers. Has anyone experienced this before or is this normal? Saw/read lots of great reviews about this watch and was very excited to get it, but I was under the impression the bezel was pretty tight with little to no back play. I'm thinking this one is going back. 

Hope this is a good thread to ask this in.

Thanks.


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## Cigarbob

tterral said:


> I just received a Combat Sub (with vanilla scented rubber strap, which is a little much for me, but I digress) from Glycine Direct on the "Bay" and I'm a little concerned about the watch. The watch looks fine, but the bezel seems to have too much back play on it, more so than my Tag or Victorinox divers. Has anyone experienced this before or is this normal? Saw/read lots of great reviews about this watch and was very excited to get it, but I was under the impression the bezel was pretty tight with little to no back play. I'm thinking this one is going back.
> 
> Hope this is a good thread to ask this in.
> 
> Thanks.


The bezel on mine is quite tight, and has perfect alignment. I would simply ask for an exchange.


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## tterral

Thanks for the response Cigarbob, is yours a fairly new one (wondering if the new models are identical in quality, etc. to earlier ones)? The bezel alignment seems OK on mine, just the 'loose" bezel.

Did some research and it appears that Glycine Direct is affiliated/the same thing as Watchgooroo on Ebay, most probably already know this. First time buying a nice watch from an Ebay seller (gray market/International warranty card), so I'm a little leery about authenticity/quality at this point. They claim to be an authorized dealer and it does have the International warranty card - everything looks legit - even the funky smelling plastic band (pretty strong vanilla smell...).


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## Cigarbob

Watchgooroo is an AD, and has great CS. They won't be available until Sunday, but will take care of this for you.

Mine Sub is an older model, btw. I paid a lot more for it than is the going rate.


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## EveryDayisSunday

I own a Combat Sub and I can tell you from first hand experience it is a superb watch. The movement is very reliable, and well regulated it is consistent at +2 seconds per day. The case and bracelet are beautifully made, and the fit is outstanding. Recently, I have been considering the purchase of a GMT watch and the Airman 1953 DC-4 Vintage has come on my radar. From what I have read the Airman line is pretty much the Cadillac of the Glycine lineup. All I can say is that if the Airman is indeed better than the Combat Sub then it is one hell of a buy. Clearly, the purchase of Glycine by Invicta has affected Glycine prices because reportedly Invicta is clearing out old stock to make room for the new stuff. Knowing Invicta that is a scary thought to be sure. Nevertheless, the existing Glycine models are grandfathered with the reputation and quality of this respected old brand. It remains to be seen what Invicta will, or will not do in reference to Glycine, but if the worst happens and the older and much sought after Glycine models are out of production the day may come when they are considered even more important due to their scarcity and throwback to the Glycine everyone admired. Who knows?

One final point. Please don't take this the wrong way. While I am no fan of Invicta, it should be pointed out that these forums house the opinions of a tiny minority. These opinions are by far in the minority when you take into account the taste of the general public. Telling John Q Public that you are shying away from buying a Glycine because the parent company is Invicta would bring a meaningless shrug of the shoulders from 99% of the buying public. Within the constraints of the forum the Invicta/Glycine thing may be a big deal, but in the real world nobody really cares.


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## Minorcollector

As a new owner of the Combat Sub and Khaki Field, I'd say they are both very similar in quality and like you said probably the best in their price range. Hamilton is probably the more prestigious brand simply because it has a wider name recognition, but both are fantastic watches (Glycine is owned by Invicta and Hamilton is owned by Swatch...whatever). Personally, I think the Airman is just too busy. Too much stuff going on that you will probably never use. I prefer simple. You can't go wrong with either the Sub or Khaki Field... , I'd get the Hamilton because as a college guy the Hamilton will probably get more nods-of-approval and it's cheaper.


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## Minorcollector

EveryDayisSunday said:


> I own a Combat Sub and I can tell you from first hand experience it is a superb watch. The movement is very reliable, and well regulated it is consistent at +2 seconds per day. The case and bracelet are beautifully made, and the fit is outstanding. Recently, I have been considering the purchase of a GMT watch and the Airman 1953 DC-4 Vintage has come on my radar. From what I have read the Airman line is pretty much the Cadillac of the Glycine lineup. All I can say is that if the Airman is indeed better than the Combat Sub then it is one hell of a buy. *Clearly, the purchase of Glycine by Invicta has affected Glycine prices because reportedly Invicta is clearing out old stock to make room for the new stuff. Knowing Invicta that is a scary thought to be sure.* Nevertheless, the existing Glycine models are grandfathered with the reputation and quality of this respected old brand. It remains to be seen what Invicta will, or will not do in reference to Glycine, but if the worst happens and the older and much sought after Glycine models are out of production the day may come when they are considered even more important due to their scarcity and throwback to the Glycine everyone admired. Who knows?
> 
> One final point. Please don't take this the wrong way. While I am no fan of Invicta, it should be pointed out that these forums house the opinions of a tiny minority. These opinions are by far in the minority when you take into account the taste of the general public. Telling John Q Public that you are shying away from buying a Glycine because the parent company is Invicta would bring a meaningless shrug of the shoulders from 99% of the buying public. Within the constraints of the forum the Invicta/Glycine thing may be a big deal, but in the real world nobody really cares.


I don't know about that. Maybe it was Invicta coming in and saying you guys are crazy for charging $1000+ for these watches. Watch some old video reviews of the Sub and they all say they paid around $1000. It's a nice watch but I would never pay that much for a Combat Sub. Now that they are going for $450 they seem to be flying off the shelf. I doubt the price drop is due to Invicta changing the quality standards. In fact, I believe Invicta has said that they do not plan to change anything at the Glycine facility.


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## weldor

I have this Glycine Combat and I don't care for it to much. It's a combat but I would not want to go in combat wearing it. Great watch just not my style. I more like the combat that looks somewhat like a diver. Just get what you want and forget about the Invicta thing.


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## Vioviv

AndrewMPatrick said:


> Hi! After a good summer of work, I've decided to spoil myself with a new watch before sophomore year of college. I have only had two seiko watches before, a chronograph and seiko five. Both are good watches but neither of the watches style and quality seems to please me anymore. I have been looking at the glycine airmans and combat subs, and I am in love with both of them. I wanted to pulled the trigger on a combat sub with the black rubber strap but I have heard that the quality compared to the airman is not the same with the combat sub because of the new ownership. I have been told that the airman would be a much better purchase, but at $600+ it is a little more than I would like to spend. The $400 price point of the combat sub seemed perfect. I really like the combat sub and the price point, but I am unsure if it would be a good purchase.
> 
> Can anyone fill me in on the quality of the combat sub, anyone that has owned one before? I really would like to get one, if it is the right purchase.
> 
> I have looked at the Hamilton khaki fields, and khaki king autos, which are nice. But I feel like the design of the glycine's are alot better. The Hamiltons are alot cheaper (~320 after discount), I am unsure if the quality of the Glycine or Hamilton would be better however.
> 
> Any help would be great! I look forward to owning my first mid tier- high end watch soon! Personally I think Glycine and Hamilton are two of the best brands for watches in this price range. Any help helping me decide which watch to get would be appreciated, Thanks!
> 
> (Side Note: I have a fairly small wrist, so 42mm is also the highest diameter watch I would wear.
> Also, I really enjoy a quality rubber strap such as the combat sub, and will likely get a rubber strap for the watch I end up buying.)
> 
> Links to the watches I am referring to:
> Glycine combat sub black dial with black silicone strap ~400-475
> Glycine airman black dial ~450-650
> Hamilton Khaki King Auto ~320


OP - what did you end up getting?


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