# Patek 5712 vs. Patek 5164



## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

Guys,
its been a while since I last posted and my collection has taken a big turn in the last two years (hopefully for the best!). I have bought a JLC MCDC, Rolex Daytona SS white and an AP ROO NAVY. Love them ALL!

I am now ready for a PP and was wondering if the owners of a 5712 or 5164 could give me some feedback on each! I have heard that the Aquanaut is the little brother of the Nautilus for the 5711 vs 5167 comparison and IMO the 5711 wins that battle. With that said I think the 5164 gives a good run for its money to the 5712!

You can see my collection in my signature and hopefully be able to give me some guidance.

lastly can you compare your winner to a Grand Lange 1?

thanks all for the feedback!

JFO


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## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

Grand lange 1 is much more expensive no?


But my answer to aquanut vs nautilus in any variation is the same: nautilus hands down every time.

I don't get the point of a rubber strap on a watch like this.
It's not as if you're going to dive with it.
It's isn't a tool watch. 
What possible purpose does it serve?


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## Crunchy (Feb 4, 2013)

5712 for sure! 

5164 is a dual time watch, unless you need this function the nautilus is my preference.


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

shnjb said:


> Grand lange 1 is much more expensive no?


There are variations of the Grand Lange but you can get a rise gold or white gold for around $35k which is what the 5712 and 5164 go for. The 5164 is a lot more expensive than the 5167 (it's non dual time little brother)

I hear Mr. Stern travels with a 5164 all the time!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

Crunchy said:


> 5712 for sure!
> 
> 5164 is a dual time watch, unless you need this function the nautilus is my preference.


Thanks! I love the 5712! Have you seen them both in person? I had made up my mind on the 5712 and then I saw a 5164 in person and it is stunning. These are very very rare to see on the shelf at any AD.


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## amine (Jan 18, 2008)

jforozco said:


> Thanks! I love the 5712! Have you seen them both in person? I had made up my mind on the 5712 and then I saw a 5164 in person and it is stunning. These are very very rare to see on the shelf at any AD.


I dislike the "Local" & "Home" inscription on the dial of the 5164, plus the pushers on the left side of the case look gimmicky to my taste, if you're looking for a GMT watch in that price range then i'd suggest you take a look at the A.Lange saxonia dual time. Between the two you've proposed i'd pick the one pictured below without a second thought...























...(let me know if you need more incentive pictures).


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## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

That micro rotor is something else.


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## Crunchy (Feb 4, 2013)

Wow amine awesome pics as usual lol.


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

Patek 5711 is sublime and about as good as it gets for an every-day, iconic, luxury sport watch. I find the uneven dial of the 5712 not nearly as appealing as the "original" Genta-designed 5711. The 5711 is just that good. Now if you truly wanted an "extension" or complication of the original, I might suggest the 5726 (annual Calendar, invented of course by Patek) or the 5980 (Chronograph) - both in my opinion are more balanced and pay better respect to the original Nautilus design.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

westlake said:


> Patek 5711 is sublime and about as good as it gets for an every-day, iconic, luxury sport watch. I find the uneven dial of the 5712 not nearly as appealing as the "original" Genta-designed 5711. The 5711 is just that good. Now if you truly wanted an "extension" or complication of the original, I might suggest the 5726 (annual Calendar, invented of course by Patek) or the 5980 (Chronograph) - both in my opinion are more balanced and pay better respect to the original Nautilus design.


Agreed, the basic Nautilus 5711 with the iridescent blue dial is very attractive, and either that or the Nautilus Annual Calendar 5726 are the ones to get.


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

Andale! Good choices. I was going to post pics of my 5712, but after the 1 or 2 pics that amine posted:-d. I think mine would be redundant. Anyway as far as the dilemma between the 5711 and the 5712, I would say that after owing a 5712 I would never ever go back to even consider adding/swapping for a 5711. To me is not even a contest but to each it's own. When I bought mine, I did consider 5711 but in my fickle mind at that point I thought 26 k for steel and no complications! So to me in this price range for a sport watch it makes more sense the 5712. Is more versatile than the 5164. Then you have to ask yourself what is the used intended for this watch? because if you want it for travel and no suit and tie involved then the 5164 makes a lot of sense.

As far as the Lange 1, is a beautiful watch but totally different to your sport watches choices, again depends on the use intended. This one will go great with a suit, definitely not water friendly.

Good Luck:-!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

Amine, what a great collection of watches you have. I have recently been working on upgrading my collection and hopefully to get to that level. My next 3 watches without a doubt are going to be a Patek, a Lange, and an FP Journe.

with that said right now it's time for the Patek. I am in love with that 5712-1A. I did see a 5726A (no bracelet) yesterday and it is stunning. I believe they don't make this watch anymore, what are your thoughts on the 5726A vs the 5712-1A?


thanks a lot!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

Agree this is a big plus for me on the 5712!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

westlake said:


> Patek 5711 is sublime and about as good as it gets for an every-day, iconic, luxury sport watch. I find the uneven dial of the 5712 not nearly as appealing as the "original" Genta-designed 5711. The 5711 is just that good. Now if you truly wanted an "extension" or complication of the original, I might suggest the 5726 (annual Calendar, invented of course by Patek) or the 5980 (Chronograph) - both in my opinion are more balanced and pay better respect to the original Nautilus design.


I agree on the 5726, but I am still thinking that the 5711 with no complications is a little behind both the 12 and the 26. I found a 5726A and it looks great, have you seen this one? Thoughts?


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

heuerolexomega said:


> Andale! Good choices. I was going to post pics of my 5712, but after the 1 or 2 pics that amine posted:-d. I think mine would be redundant. Anyway as far as the dilemma between the 5711 and the 5712, I would say that after owing a 5712 I would never ever go back to even consider adding/swapping for a 5711. To me is not even a contest but to each it's own. When I bought mine, I did consider 5711 but in my fickle mind at that point I thought 26 k for steel and no complications! So to me in this price range for a sport watch it makes more sense the 5712. Is more versatile than the 5164. Then you have to ask yourself what is the used intended for this watch? because if you want it for travel and no suit and tie involved then the 5164 makes a lot of sense.
> 
> As far as the Lange 1, is a beautiful watch but totally different to your sport watches choices, again depends on the use intended. This one will go great with a suit, definitely not water friendly.
> 
> Good Luck:-!


I usually do no wear a lot of suits and for that I would rather have a really formal watch (ie Grand Lange 1), instead of picking between the 5712 and the 5164. For an everyday watch would you go with the 5712 or the 5164?

Also what do you think about the 5726A (not the 1A)?

Thanks


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## amine (Jan 18, 2008)

jforozco said:


> Amine, what a great collection of watches you have. I have recently been working on upgrading my collection and hopefully to get to that level. My next 3 watches without a doubt are going to be a Patek, a Lange, and an FP Journe.
> 
> with that said right now it's time for the Patek. I am in love with that 5712-1A. I did see a 5726A (no bracelet) yesterday and it is stunning. I believe they don't make this watch anymore, what are your thoughts on the 5726A vs the 5712-1A?
> 
> thanks a lot!


Many thanks for your kind words!

The 5726 is too thick for a Nautilus IMO due to the added complication (AC) and as far as i'm concerned an Annual Calendar complication made by Patek should be more classic in the veins of 5146, 5205, 5035, 5396...etc. The design of the Nautilus PP screams sport chic so i would stick to the original 5711 or 5712, personally i wouldn't pay that much money for the 5711 knowing it's a steel watch with no complications, i'd add some $$ and get its bigger brother. The 5980 pushers and case diameter doesn't appeal to me at all though.
Also, if i may comment on your collection...you've got few interesting pieces there and a few others that i'd try to sell and replace with better ones if i was in your position:

*2008: Bulgari Diagono Titanium 44m
2009: Bell & Ross BR03-51 GMT Titanium
2011: Cartier Santos 100 Black PVD

*The above 3 models you could get around $6k if you sell them and put that money towards an A.Lange or a VC (aside from the 5712/1A which you already have the budget for) to complement your nicely rounded collection, i believe you're already all set with chronos so you could go for a basic VC Overseas on leather strap or a Lange 1, i hope i don't hurt any feelings here...just expressing my opinion, taste is different from a person to another.
Cheers.


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

amine said:


> Many thanks for your kind words!
> 
> The 5726 is too thick for a Nautilus IMO due to the added complication (AC) and as far as i'm concerned an Annual Calendar complication made by Patek should be more classic in the veins of 5146, 5205, 5035, 5396...etc. The design of the Nautilus PP screams sport chic so i would stick to the original 5711 or 5712, personally i wouldn't pay that much money for the 5711 knowing it's a steel watch with no complications, i'd add some $$ and get its bigger brother. The 5980 pushers and case diameter doesn't appeal to me at all though.
> Also, if i may comment on your collection...you've got few interesting pieces there and a few others that i'd try to sell and replace with better ones if i was in your position:
> ...


Thanks for your message on my humble collection. No feelings hurt at all. In fact check this out * 2008: Bulgari Diagono Titanium 44m --> For sale
2009: Bell & Ross BR03-51 GMT Titanium --> Will keep
2011: Cartier Santos 100 Black PVD --> Sold, you will not believe this but I got $7k for it. A big Cartier Lover... *
with this I now have about $11k put a side as I also had a Montblanc Timewalker that I also sold for $2.7k. Think I can get about $2.3k for the Bulgari. For maybe the $14k or so. This will go towards my 5712 budget. My next three watches are going to be a Patek, a Lange and an FP Journe for sure. This is what I am doing to upgrade my collection. I want no ETA based movement watches on my collection... Anyways looks like the 5712 would be. I also like the 5712R, how would you compare this one to the 5712-1A. And one more question. Which is the best 5712 in your opinion?


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

jforozco said:


> I usually do no wear a lot of suits and for that I would rather have a really formal watch (ie Grand Lange 1), instead of picking between the 5712 and the 5164. For an everyday watch would you go with the 5712 or the 5164?
> 
> Also what do you think about the 5726A (not the 1A)?
> 
> Thanks


Ok, so you are shooting for two watches. So 1 ALS and 1 Patek is the perfect combo. For the Patek I would stick with the 5712, for the reasons I mention before. The 5164 is a beautiful watch but I can't justify in my mind 36k for an Aquanaut but more importantly I think the 5712 looks better.
As far as the 5762A, I think is more target to a 1 watch person. This design is marrying the sport look with an annual calendar complication with a leather strap. Trying too hard to hit all the spots falling short on all of them. But to each it's own, there is always a market for this ones.

For the ALS, if budget allows I would shoot for the Grand Lange 1 instead of the Lange 1. The Lange 1 is a little bit small 38mm I think the Grand Lange I is 40mm. Perfect size, I think.

Good luck!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

heuerolexomega said:


> Ok, so you are shooting for two watches. So 1 ALS and 1 Patek is the perfect combo. For the Patek I would stick with the 5712, for the reasons I mention before. The 5164 is a beautiful watch but I can't justify in my mind 36k for an Aquanaut but more importantly I think the 5712 looks better.
> As far as the 5762A, I think is more target to a 1 watch person. This design is marrying the sport look with an annual calendar complication with a leather strap. Trying too hard to hit all the spots falling short on all of them. But to each it's own, there is always a market for this ones.
> 
> For the ALS, if budget allows I would shoot for the Grand Lange 1 instead of the Lange 1. The Lange 1 is a little bit small 38mm I think the Grand Lange I is 40mm. Perfect size, I think.
> ...


 With regards to the ALS, I will go with the GL1 instead of the L1 for sure. I have tried both on and you are right the L1 is small. Regarding the Patek which is this year's watch there is about a $5k difference between the 5712 and the 5726. I like different things on both watches. On the 5726 I like that is an annual calendar (I don't have any), I like the clean dial for a complicated watch, and the price is not bad for the complication. On the 5726 I don't like that it has the big rotor (although its nice I like the mini better), I also think is thicker than it needs to be for a Nautilus. Overall an awesome watch. On the 5712 I like the bracelet, I like the mini rotor, and I like the fact that is very thin. On the 5712 I am not sure that I like that although the dial is busy it does not have anything really complicated (power reserve, date, and moon phase). Do you know if on the 5726 given that it has a leather strap you can buy a clasp with the calatrava cross and adapt it to it? This would be a huge plus! Thoughts? I am torn as you can see....


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

jforozco said:


> With regards to the ALS, I will go with the GL1 instead of the L1 for sure. I have tried both on and you are right the L1 is small. Regarding the Patek which is this year's watch there is about a $5k difference between the 5712 and the 5726. I like different things on both watches. On the 5726 I like that is an annual calendar (I don't have any), I like the clean dial for a complicated watch, and the price is not bad for the complication. On the 5726 I don't like that it has the big rotor (although its nice I like the mini better), I also think is thicker than it needs to be for a Nautilus. Overall an awesome watch. On the 5712 I like the bracelet, I like the mini rotor, and I like the fact that is very thin. On the 5712 I am not sure that I like that although the dial is busy it does not have anything really complicated (power reserve, date, and moon phase). Do you know if on the 5726 given that it has a leather strap you can buy a clasp with the calatrava cross and adapt it to it? This would be a huge plus! Thoughts? I am torn as you can see....


I know, I am going to say a statement that I hear often and repeat often as well: Any serious collection needs a Patek Philippe annual calendar on a precious metal. 
The problem is that with that statement I am implying 3 watches: PP annual calendar in gold or Pt, PP sport (in this case Nautilus) and a Lange.
In my case I went for 4 : PP 5146g, PP 5712, ALS Saxonia Thin, ALS 116.039. The last one is my next watch, if God allows.

I am not helping, I know but that's how I see it. You could go with 5726 and save you a watch, as long as it makes you happy you are fine.
As far as the Calatrava cross, I think that regardless if you can do it or not, would be out of place for sport watch,
My 0.02 cts


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## amine (Jan 18, 2008)

jforozco said:


> Thanks for your message on my humble collection. No feelings hurt at all. In fact check this out * 2008: Bulgari Diagono Titanium 44m --> For sale
> 2009: Bell & Ross BR03-51 GMT Titanium --> Will keep
> 2011: Cartier Santos 100 Black PVD --> Sold, you will not believe this but I got $7k for it. A big Cartier Lover... *
> with this I now have about $11k put a side as I also had a Montblanc Timewalker that I also sold for $2.7k. Think I can get about $2.3k for the Bulgari. For maybe the $14k or so. This will go towards my 5712 budget. My next three watches are going to be a Patek, a Lange and an FP Journe for sure. This is what I am doing to upgrade my collection. I want no ETA based movement watches on my collection... Anyways looks like the 5712 would be. I also like the 5712R, how would you compare this one to the 5712-1A. And one more question. Which is the best 5712 in your opinion?


I don't like "Gold" sports watches, IMO it goes against the main concept of a "sport watch" as gold is a precious metal which should be left for more delicate, classy, or exquisite timepieces (same goes for platinum). Steel is a rugged (and cheaper) metal that suits sport watches better for a daily wear purpose, and the Nautilus was introduced to the public by Patek in the 70's as a novelty in the world of horology being a steel watch that costs more money than many other gold watches during that era, just my opinion.

Stick to the 5712/1A, it won't disappoint! (had mine for 4 years already and always a joy to put it on).


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

amine said:


> I don't like "Gold" sports watches, IMO it goes against the main concept of a "sport watch" as gold is a precious metal which should be left for more delicate, classy, or exquisite timepieces (same goes for platinum). Steel is a rugged (and cheaper) metal that suits sport watches better for a daily wear purpose, and the Nautilus was introduced to the public by Patek in the 70's as a novelty in the world of horology being a steel watch that costs more money than many other gold watches during that era, just my opinion.
> 
> Stick to the 5712/1A, it won't disappoint! (had mine for 4 years already and always a joy to put it on).


Thanks man, I agree that a high-end sports watch should be in steel or titanium, not a precious metal. I will go with the 5712-1A or the 5726A. Thanks for the help!


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

jforozco said:


> I agree on the 5726, but I am still thinking that the 5711 with no complications is a little behind both the 12 and the 26. I found a 5726A and it looks great, have you seen this one? Thoughts?


I have seen and tried-on the 5726A. A very nice watch for sure, but for a sport strap watch I am leaning Rose Gold these days and I prefer the AP 15400OR. Actually for a Patek annual calendar I very much like (covet?) the 5396/1G-001. Pretty big jump in price, but that blue dial is subtle and just awesome.


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

Guys, thanks to all for your help on this matter. I have made up my mind and have found a great deal on a 5726/1A. This watch has the bracelet, the annual calendar, and stays true to the original GG design on the 5711. I should have it next weekend so as soon as I have it in my hands I will post some nice pics of it. The 5712/1A, the 5711 and 5726A are all awesome pieces but this is what my collection needed at this time. I have now rounded of my collection to have 1 Patek (5726/1a), 1 AP (ROO Navy), 1 JLC (MCDC), 1 IWC (7day Port), 1 Rolex (Daytona Steel, white). Now all I need is 1 Lange and 1 FP Journe and I will be whole! You can make arguments for many other brands (VC, Breguet, UN, Blancpain, etc) and although I love their watches they are not on my short list (maybe the Tradition by Breguet is  ) I will start the hunt for either one of those end of next year probably! Again thanks all!


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

jforozco said:


> Guys, thanks to all for your help on this matter. I have made up my mind and have found a great deal on a 5726/1A. This watch has the bracelet, the annual calendar, and stays true to the original GG design on the 5711. I should have it next weekend so as soon as I have it in my hands I will post some nice pics of it. The 5712/1A, the 5711 and 5726A are all awesome pieces but this is what my collection needed at this time. I have now rounded of my collection to have 1 Patek (5726/1a), 1 AP (ROO Navy), 1 JLC (MCDC), 1 IWC (7day Port), 1 Rolex (Daytona Steel, white). Now all I need is 1 Lange and 1* FP Journe *and I will be whole! You can make arguments for many other brands (VC, Breguet, UN, Blancpain, etc) and although I love their watches they are not on my short list (maybe the Tradition by Breguet is  ) I will start the hunt for either one of those end of next year probably! Again thanks all!


FP Journe you say? Now you are talk' n. FPJ will be the best watch in your collection, IMHO of course.


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

westlake said:


> FP Journe you say? Now you are talk' n. FPJ will be the best watch in your collection, IMHO of course.


I am in love with the Centigraphe Souverain. It is amazing how a watch beating at 21,600 v/h (3Hz) can measure up to 1/100th of second, it almost sounds impossible. I went to the FP Journe boutique in Bal Harbour in Miami and the manager there had a rose gold Centigraphe on a light brown (almost tan) croc strap and it looked absolutely amazing! The Chronometre a Resonance, the Tourbillon Souveraine, the Sonnerie Sourveraine, come on! Don't get me started!


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

jforozco said:


> I am in love with the Centigraphe Souverain. It is amazing how a watch beating at 21,600 v/h (3Hz) can measure up to 1/100th of second, it almost sounds impossible. I went to the FP Journe boutique in Bal Harbour in Miami and the manager there had a rose gold Centigraphe on a light brown (almost tan) croc strap and it looked absolutely amazing! The Chronometre a Resonance, the Tourbillon Souveraine, the Sonnerie Sourveraine, come on! Don't get me started!


All great comments - and that's before we even discuss the company, what and how they make the 800-or so watches a year, François-Paul's passion for true watch-making, etc. It's an unbelievable watch and brand which, in many ways, is tied to just one man - François-Paul. My long-term goal is to add all of his major complications - tourbillon, minute repeater, perpetual calendar and resonance - before Mr. Journe "retires" from this life as I believe his company is so tied to him that it won't function without him.


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

westlake said:


> All great comments - and that's before we even discuss the company, what and how they make the 800-or so watches a year, François-Paul's passion for true watch-making, etc. It's an unbelievable watch and brand which, in many ways, is tied to just one man - François-Paul. My long-term goal is to add all of his major complications - tourbillon, minute repeater, perpetual calendar and resonance - before Mr. Journe "retires" from this life as I believe his company is so tied to him that it won't function without him.


Since I know little about the brand, I want a ask if is true that F.P Journe watches need(ed) to be return to the manufacture because of problems with their movements?


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

heuerolexomega said:


> Since I know little about the brand, I want a ask if is true that F.P Journe watches need(ed) to be return to the manufacture because of problems with their movements?


I own 5 and so far no problems - so not sure what the protocol or logistics is in getting serviced. Its a very small company in the scheme or things, so I fully expect to send the watches to the factory for service if need be. That said, François-Paul builds a damn fine product that he expects to last generations (his words BTW) so I would expect longer-than-normal servicing times - especially given I don't wear them on a daily basis. I am supposed to visit the factory in Geneva early next year so maybe I will get a better understanding of service then.


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

westlake said:


> I own 5 and so far no problems - so not sure what the protocol or logistics is in getting serviced. Its a very small company in the scheme or things, so I fully expect to send the watches to the factory for service if need be. That said, François-Paul builds a damn fine product that he expects to last generations (his words BTW) so I would expect longer-than-normal servicing times - especially given I don't wear them on a daily basis. I am supposed to visit the factory in Geneva early next year so maybe I will get a better understanding of service then.


Did you just write that you own 5 FP Journes? You can't just write that and not post any pictures! I agree with everything you are saying. He represents everything that you want in a watch if you are watch collector. That is one of the reasons I am waiting to be a lot more knowledgeable about watches before I get one of his pieces. It will probably be a centigraphe that's the one I like the most right now. I do have a lot of chronos (not that this would be a regular Chrono). Any other that you would recommend? Looking forward to the pics!


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

jforozco said:


> Did you just write that you own 5 FP Journes? You can't just write that and not post any pictures! I agree with everything you are saying. He represents everything that you want in a watch if you are watch collector. That is one of the reasons I am waiting to be a lot more knowledgeable about watches before I get one of his pieces. It will probably be a centigraphe that's the one I like the most right now. I do have a lot of chronos (not that this would be a regular Chrono). Any other that you would recommend? Looking forward to the pics!


*Here are the "Fab" 5: FP Journe Centigraphe, Octa Chronograph, Octa Automatique Black Label, Chronometre Souverain (not shown) and Chronometre Bleu*


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

westlake said:


> *Here are the "Fab" 5: FP Journe Centigraphe, Octa Chronograph, Octa Automatique Black Label, Chronometre Souverain (not shown) and Chronometre Bleu*


That is unbelievable! My favorite is the centigraphe but I love it even more in rose gold. Yours is white gold not platinum right? Which one is your favorite? Th rose gold movements are beautiful! 
What other watches do you have? Do you have any PPs, APs, VCs, ALS or Breguets? If yes, how do they compare to your FPJs?


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## Galactic Sushiman (Dec 3, 2012)

westlake said:


> *Here are the "Fab" 5: FP Journe Centigraphe, Octa Chronograph, Octa Automatique Black Label, Chronometre Souverain (not shown) and Chronometre Bleu*


This has now become my favourite post ever on WUS. Absolutely delightful and stunning pieces, enjoy!


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

westlake said:


> *Here are the "Fab" 5: FP Journe Centigraphe, Octa Chronograph, Octa Automatique Black Label, Chronometre Souverain (not shown) and Chronometre Bleu*


Amazing! 
Never a fan of F.P. Journe, until now!!!!!
thanks for sharing.


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

jforozco said:


> That is unbelievable! My favorite is the centigraphe but I love it even more in rose gold. Yours is white gold not platinum right? Which one is your favorite? Th rose gold movements are beautiful!
> What other watches do you have? Do you have any PPs, APs, VCs, ALS or Breguets? If yes, how do they compare to your FPJs?


My Centigraphe is in Platinum. I am negotiating to trade it for a Boutique-edition in rose gold. I think the combination of Rose gold case, brown croc band and dark brown dial with offset colored sub-dials is just amazing.

My favorite FPJ is the Chronometre Bleu, which ironically is the "cheapest" FP Journe available. I have a thing for Tantalum and the face of this watch is absolutely amazing. Second favorite is the Centigraphe.

Current collection (mostly): A. Lange & Sohne Time Zone, 1815 | Audemars Piguet Royal Oak 15400-ST & 15400-OR, Offshore Diver | Blancpain 50 Fathoms Chrono, Villeret Ultraplate | Breitling Navitimer, Transocean Chrono LE | Bremont Norton | Breguet Type XXI Ti | FP Journe Centigraphe, Octa Chronograph, Octa Automatique Black Label, Chronometre Souverain, Chronometre Bleu | Girard Perregaux 1966 Chronograph | Glashutte Original Navigator | IWC Mark XV, Aquatimer Chrono, Portuguese Chrono Classic, Portofino Hand-Wound 8 Days | Jaeger-LeCoultre Master Ultra-thin, Master Compressor Chrono Ceramic | Omega Moonwatch Co-Axial, Planet Ocean & Chrono | Officine Panerai PAM 24, 48, 62, 74, 80, 103, 163, 172, 184, 192, 237, 246, 337, 338 | Nomos Glashutte Zurich | Patek Philippe 5711A-10 & 11, 5167 | Rolex Daytona, Deep Sea, GMT II, Sub No-date | Speake-Marin Spirit MK2 | Vacheron Constantin Patrimony Contemporaine, Overseas Chrono | Zenith Ultra-Thin.

Not sure how I would compare all of these watches to FPJ. I think, in general, most people collect one special watch or brand. Many choose Patek or A. Lange & Sohne due to their level of refinement, detail and/or movement. I chose long ago to collect FP Journe and it represents the best/highest level of watch in my collection. There IS no comparison to other brands or watches, in my opinion of course.


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## Galactic Sushiman (Dec 3, 2012)

westlake said:


> My Centigraphe is in Platinum. I am negotiating to trade it for a Boutique-edition in rose gold. I think the combination of Rose gold case, brown croc band and dark brown dial with offset colored sub-dials is just amazing.
> 
> My favorite FPJ is the Chronometre Bleu, which ironically is the "cheapest" FP Journe available. I have a thing for Tantalum and the face of this watch is absolutely amazing. Second favorite is the Centigraphe.
> 
> ...


I so agree with you, the Chronometre Bleu is my favorite too, and the only one I can save up for to be honest 

What a great collection, congratulations.


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## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

Wow that was pretty amazing


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

If I get a FP Journe, it would be the Chronometre Bleu. I'm not really a fan of the dial design on the more complicated Journes, but the blue dial on the Chronometre Bleu is simply exquisite.


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

mleok said:


> If I get a FP Journe, it would be the Chronometre Bleu. I'm not really a fan of the dial design on the more complicated Journes, but the blue dial on the Chronometre Bleu is simply exquisite.


^^
What he said


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

mleok said:


> If I get a FP Journe, it would be the Chronometre Bleu. I'm not really a fan of the dial design on the more complicated Journes, but the blue dial on the Chronometre Bleu is simply exquisite.


Pictures don't do it justice. In speaking with someone from François-Paul's company, he mentioned the failure rate on production of that particular blue dial is extremely high. It was one of the reasons FP Journey bought the dial company and moved them to Meyrin, just outside of the Geneva airport. François-Paul Journe - "If you don't own your dial, you don't own your soul" - Fondation de la Haute Horlogerie


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

westlake said:


> My Centigraphe is in Platinum. I am negotiating to trade it for a Boutique-edition in rose gold. I think the combination of Rose gold case, brown croc band and dark brown dial with offset colored sub-dials is just amazing.
> 
> My favorite FPJ is the Chronometre Bleu, which ironically is the "cheapest" FP Journe available. I have a thing for Tantalum and the face of this watch is absolutely amazing. Second favorite is the Centigraphe.
> 
> ...


First of all congratulations on your collection! It is one of the best I have ever seen! I will be at the FP Journe boutique this weekend hopefully looking at what could be next year's piece! I do love the Chronometre Bleu but I already have two other "blue" watches (not that they compare to FPJ). I absolutely love your Octa Chrono! At this time I am between that one and the centigraphe.

Do you buy yours from the boutique? If so do you get special deals? If uncomfortable talking about this and prices in public can you help through private message?

Congrats again!


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

jforozco said:


> First of all congratulations on your collection! It is one of the best I have ever seen! I will be at the FP Journe boutique this weekend hopefully looking at what could be next year's piece! I do love the Chronometre Bleu but I already have two other "blue" watches (not that they compare to FPJ). I absolutely love your Octa Chrono! At this time I am between that one and the centigraphe.
> 
> Do you buy yours from the boutique? If so do you get special deals? If uncomfortable talking about this and prices in public can you help through private message?
> 
> Congrats again!


I have purchased my FP Journes both in the/through the Boutique and on the secondary market. As to discounts, they are very hard to come-by. The Octa Chronograph is an older watch I bought several years ago pre-owned at a decent price, but the rest were purchased "new" or mostly new and very close to retail. I am a fairly good customer of several AD's and some wholesalers and am used to getting decent pricing - but FP Journe only makes 800 watches a year and secondary market pricing (when you can actually find the watches you are looking for) remains strong. In fact I would say pricing is actually getting firmer as interest in this brand continues to rise.

I have also been drawn to the "boutique-only" watches of late, especially the red gold /black dial watches and the red gold Nacre watches. Those go for full-retail and never come up on the secondary market.

Also don't discount the Bleu before you try it on. No matter how many blue face watches you have, they don't compare - its that special.


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

Guys, As promised here are the pictures of the my new timepiece! So excited and I cant be happier. PP is PP as they say. Definitely the best out there IMO. Below I have added a couple of pics of what I call my "Fab 5". Not so Fab for some, but for me they are awesome. This is after my "phase I" of what I called my collection upgrade phase. Hope you like.


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

Congrats on an awesome watch! Wear it in good health !:-!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

heuerolexomega said:


> Congrats on an awesome watch! Wear it in good health !:-!


Thanks a lot!
yes I am really happy with it!
great piece and my first Annual Calendar ( i figured it better be a Patek).


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

jforozco said:


> my first Annual Calendar ( i figured it better be a Patek).


first Annual Calendar? What Octa Calendrier is coming ?


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## Galactic Sushiman (Dec 3, 2012)

Sublime. Congrats!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

Galactic Sushiman said:


> Sublime. Congrats!


Thanks man! I appreciate it!


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## Horoticus (Jul 23, 2011)

Just beautiful, congratulations!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

Horoticus said:


> Just beautiful, congratulations!


Thanks a lot man!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

heuerolexomega said:


> first Annual Calendar? What Octa Calendrier is coming ?


I mean the 5726/1A is the first Annual Calendar in my collection. However I do love the Octa Calendrier as well, but for my first FP Journe i will get something simpler. A lot of my watches have busy dials!


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

jforozco said:


> I mean the 5726/1A is the first Annual Calendar in my collection. However I do love the Octa Calendrier as well, but for my first FP Journe i will get something simpler. A lot of my watches have busy dials!


I see, then the Chronometre bleu would be in my eyes the best choice. Unique not only in the movement but the case material as well (tantalum).


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## jnelson3097 (Mar 28, 2010)

Looks good! Very nice collecion


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

jnelson3097 said:


> Looks good! Very nice collecion


Thanks man! and also thanks for the tip George at Govberg is great. Everything as promised and he happened to have the piece that I wanted!


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

heuerolexomega said:


> I see, then the Chronometre bleu would be in my eyes the best choice. Unique not only in the movement but the case material as well (tantalum).


I love that watch. I think its going to be a rose gold watch though. Either the Octa Reserve de Marche, a Grand Lange 1, or a Breguet Tradition one of those 3.
At this time leaning towards the FPJ, everytime i see them I like them more and more. Pictures don't do them justice!


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

jforozco said:


> Thanks man! and also thanks for the tip George at Govberg is great. Everything as promised and he happened to have the piece that I wanted!


I bought my Vacheron Constantin from them, I only deal with Dawn Govberg there. She is great!
Do they ship to Mexico?


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

heuerolexomega said:


> I bought my Vacheron Constantin from them, I only deal with Dawn Govberg there. She is great!
> Do they ship to Mexico?


I didn't try, the border here is tricky. I was up on Miami over the weekend and picked up that piece and my AP ROO that was at the service center!


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

jforozco said:


> I didn't try, the border here is tricky. I was up on Miami over the weekend and picked up that piece and my AP ROO that was at the service center!


I see, I was going to say "no mames, buey" (en buena onda)


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## jforozco (Dec 31, 2009)

heuerolexomega said:


> I see, I was going to say "no mames, buey" (en buena onda)


hehe, I am actually Colombian but live in Mexico! Yeah that would be crazy!


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

jforozco said:


> hehe, I am actually Colombian but live in Mexico! Yeah that would be crazy!


Ok, "cachaco" it is then. Looking forward on that FP Journe then:-!


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