# NEW Grand Seiko Basel 2017 - The Next Step Forward - Grand Seiko Dial Now Features GS As Primary Log



## JoeKirk

Today, Grand Seiko introduces a new collection embracing it's past, displaying the Grand Seiko logo proudly at the 12:00 position replicating the first Grand Seiko, the Ref. 3180. For Baselworld 2017, not only will these new models feature the Grand Seiko logo at the 12:00, but from now onwards, all Grand Seiko models will feature the Grand Seiko logo at this prominent position.

The presence of Grand Seiko in the global market debuted in 2010. With tremendous reception of the brand world wide, the brand has grown substantially in the last 7 years. The decision for changing the logo display on Grand Seiko is one that separates the brand from other divisions of Seiko. Grand Seiko has been a distinct brand since it's creation, with unique attributes such as design, character, finishing and precision movements. The brand stands on it's own in the watch world, and in order to strengthen it's unique appeal, superior quality, and brand presence, Grand Seiko will now be featured as a truly independent line.

The brand has made great strides in terms of sales, distribution and interest among collectors. The future of the brand is strong with focus on scaling new heights in watchmaking as well as furthering its success among aficionados, collectors and anyone else who appreciates fine watchmaking.

This change is paving a new path for Grand Seiko, while paying tribute to the first Grand Seiko as well as other high quality GS such as the VFA (which had only Grand Seiko on the dial) but is also a push for a strong future. This new presence will reach out to a wider audience, offer a cleaner dial, and focus on the quality of Grand Seiko itself. You will also notice, that the technical description fonts have all changed to the same single font. To create an entirely separate brand for Grand Seiko and keep it's distinct uniqueness in a category of it's own, this new dial display and distinction of the logo has been created. 

Grand Seiko models in their current dial types will continue to be made until the end of this month and sold throughout the world until they are completely sold out. The new dial type will begin delivery starting in May 2017.


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## Gerald_D

Joe - to clarify... every existing GS model is being discontinued?


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## JoeKirk

Gerald_D said:


> Joe - to clarify... every existing GS model is being discontinued?


Essentially... Yes. The new models will begin to replace the old ones as they come in. The styles with the SEIKO logo at 12:00 will sell through until the new stock replaces. Essentially model numbers will remain the same, +200. Example being the Snowflake SBGA011, now SBGA211. No other design changes will occur except a few minor ones like the mentioned changing to 1 font for technical description. Also, the chronographs will all have logo placement at 11:00 instead of 12:00. Models like SBGE005 and 011 will have a longer 6:00 index to accommodate the empty space, but that is really about it.


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## Watchseeker27

I'd have to see how the new snowflake dial looks like, but any chance they'd offer a choice to switch the dial at service time?


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## Domo

>:O


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## Brny11

Watchseeker27 said:


> I'd have to see how the new snowflake dial looks like, but any chance they'd offer a choice to switch the dial at service time?


Personally, I wouldn't touch my dial, even if they offered it! I appreciate the Seiko branding. Not mad at the company by any means, and look forward to ownership of a newly branded GS. But, I love many Seikos ranging from $100-$x,000s and appreciate the company branding as it was. Still, I can't wait to see the new lineup at my local AD!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Winnipesaukee

Interesting! I wonder how this will affect the secondary market if the existing branded models. Perhaps it's worth waiting if you're in the market.


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## Laso1

I like it...........


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## Maxy

JoeKirk said:


> Essentially... Yes. The new models will begin to replace the old ones as they come in. The styles with the SEIKO logo at 12:00 will sell through until the new stock replaces. Essentially model numbers will remain the same, +200. Example being the Snowflake SBGA011, now SBGA211. No other design changes will occur except a few minor ones like the mentioned changing to 1 font for technical description. Also, the chronographs will all have logo placement at 11:00 instead of 12:00. Models like SBGE005 and 011 will have a longer 6:00 index to accommodate the empty space, but that is really about it.


Thanks Joe.. now finally I'm gonna own the SBGX115 - (white dial GS Quartz diver) which might be SBGX315!!


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## mfaraday

Watchseeker27 said:


> I'd have to see how the new snowflake dial looks like, but any chance they'd offer a choice to switch the dial at service time?


Here's the new Snowflake on the left. Honestly, the original design is what I will be sticking to.


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## Laso1

I just read that the Global Warrenty will go to 3 years and there will be more upscale packaging. I guess the "new model's" (existing models with new logo) will get a price increase?????? To go with the upscale marketing direction.

I like the New Dials, they are cleaner, less cluttered.

Will this help resale value of the existing models????????


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## nickma

Doubt it will make much difference. 

I presume annual production volumes are reasonably high in total , given the rather high limited edition runs that sell through quite quickly.

For every person who likes the new dial layout better than the old one there is someone else who prefers the old layout.


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## dsquared24

First reaction: I'm liking the new dial layout. Cleaner, minimalist. Since I'm in the market for my first GS, gonna have to check both out.


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## T1meout

I like the layout, but much rather prefer the applied GS logo to the embossed logo.


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## knickerbocker

I'm kind of torn. On one hand perhaps this new direction would help improve the brand perception, especially among the non-WIS majority. However, at the same time being able to pass off a high end piece as "just a seiko" kinda had its own charm.


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## appleb

Imagine if things were reversed where we already had Grand Seiko up top, and they decided to move the GS logo down to add plain Seiko on top. I think people would be freaking out more over that kind of move and probably preferring the version with Grand Seiko on top.


I think it will certainly help non-watch people identify with the watch as being something special, instead of being seen as 'just another seiko'.


Now I just need to wait a dozen years or so for my SBGA011 to be considered the rare dial version...


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## John Price

Interesting. Looking at the photo of the new Snowflake I definitely miss the old logo and the GS logo down at 6 o'clock. While I get that it's a "cleaner" look, now that I see it, it looks unbalanced with the power reserve display sitting there "all by it's lonesome". I don't know, I think the logo at 6 o'clock helped balance out the power reserve. I never would've realized that until seeing it. Anyone else agree?


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## Squeaks5635

John Price said:


> Interesting. Looking at the photo of the new Snowflake I definitely miss the old logo and the GS logo down at 6 o'clock. While I get that it's a "cleaner" look, now that I see it, it looks unbalanced with the power reserve display sitting there "all by it's lonesome". I don't know, I think the logo at 6 o'clock helped balance out the power reserve. I never would've realized that until seeing it. Anyone else agree?


This is exactly my thoughts. I have a snowflake on pre-order which should be the old style and after seeing the new one it looks unbalanced as you say to me. I am glad I got my order in before the changeover.


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## Maxy

Maxy said:


> Thanks Joe.. now finally I'm gonna own the SBGX115 - (white dial GS Quartz diver) which might be SBGX315!!


Wait, what.. why is the GS Quartz Divers removed from the new GS USA site? Are they being discontinued? Can you confirm this Joe?


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## Ahriman4891

I think the GMT models look better (more balanced) with the new logo. The new Snowflake does look silly with the big PRI and that tiny "spring drive" writing. The quartz also looks empty in the bottom half.


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## bluedialer

Me too. I like the change overall, I really do honestly, but only if the "GS" remains applied.
But as far as the Snowflake - power reserve looks much worse now. And I was one who likes the PR. Offset with one line of text coming off the bottom right edge of it.... Looks very not good...

Filling the empty space down there with the "GS" really helped the offset power reserve element. Don't realize it til It's gone.
This will critically exacerbate the same old power reserve hate. Too bad, because I've always been on the PR side.


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## dsquared24

Shoot, you guys are right the more I'm looking at it. The spring drive and quartz dial look too "empty." Especially on the spring drives with its PR. The GMT dial looks better and balanced.


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## T1meout

I really like the minimalistic look of the clean Quartz dial.
Very refreshing.


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## Gerald_D

appleb said:


> Imagine if things were reversed where we already had Grand Seiko up top, and they decided to move the GS logo down to add plain Seiko on top. I think people would be freaking out more over that kind of move and probably preferring the version with Grand Seiko on top.
> 
> I think it will certainly help non-watch people identify with the watch as being something special, instead of being seen as 'just another seiko'.
> 
> Now I just need to wait a dozen years or so for my SBGA011 to be considered the rare dial version...


Fascinatingly, what you describe is exactly what happened in 1963 - less than 3 years after the introduction of the brand.

If only the internet had existed back then so that we had a record of people's reactions 

More here - Vintage Grand Seiko dial layouts - WatchDXB

Kind regards,

Gerald.


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## Watchseeker27

Had they done Grand Seiko on the top, with GS and Spring Drive on the bottom I could see it. Now the top looks too busy, and the bottom looks unbalanced. I'm always in favor of less text, and I certainly don't miss the Seiko, but this doesn't fit together well IMO.


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## mfaraday

I agree with everyone that the GMT looks great, zero complaints there. I'm hoping that in the future GS can figure out how to properly distribute the logos and text on Spring Drive models, because that Snowflake dial looks like a bit of an afterthought....


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## teb1013

JoeKirk said:


> Essentially... Yes. The new models will begin to replace the old ones as they come in. The styles with the SEIKO logo at 12:00 will sell through until the new stock replaces. Essentially model numbers will remain the same, +200. Example being the Snowflake SBGA011, now SBGA211. No other design changes will occur except a few minor ones like the mentioned changing to 1 font for technical description. Also, the chronographs will all have logo placement at 11:00 instead of 12:00. Models like SBGE005 and 011 will have a longer 6:00 index to accommodate the empty space, but that is really about it.


Thanks for the info Joe, but I just want to understand, will all of the "old" models continue to be made just with new faces and a new +200 number or, after they originals will any of the older models be dropped (I'm particularly interested in the SBGA125 (SBGA325?) or the SBGE005 (SBGE 205?) but, because I have a 9F quartz, are those models continuing?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Squeaks5635

teb1013 said:


> Thanks for the info Joe, but I just want to understand, will all of the "old" models continue to be made just with new faces and a new +200 number or, after they originals will any of the older models be dropped (I'm particularly interested in the SBGA125 (SBGA325?) or the SBGE005 (SBGE 205?) but, because I have a 9F quartz, are those models continuing?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


SBGA125 was a limited model so I do not think they are still making them.


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## matthew P

I know it's all about rebranding and probably seen as helpfull in the western market.....
but I'm quite OK with the "just a seiko" crowd- the newer branding looks more up market and cleaner but the older style has a slightly more casual , all business feel. 
For me they work well and I'm happy to have them in my collection. 
One day I may stretch for a nice dress watch on dress leather.... at that point the purer GS branding will probably be attractive.

I suspect I would have preferred a large GRAND SEIKO up top and a smaller GS still on the bottom.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## matthew P

Can I just say the these are magnificent









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## MHe225

You just did and I totally agree. |>
I am already aiming for the steel version. No less magnificent than the other two, just less exclusive ;-)



matthew P said:


> Can I just say the these are magnificent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Watchdelight

I think removing the Seiko logo will give the GS brand more identity and an upmarket feel. However brand snobbery would still exist but I prefer it this way as we know GS are right up there in terms of quality workmanship and won't be a common sight compared with the usual Swiss offerings.
I can see on the new dial that the power reserve now makes the watch a bit unbalanced. 
Would love to see a photo of the new/old version of the Snowflake side by side to make a judgement on if the dial is a vast improvement or not.


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## matthew P

MHe225 said:


> You just did and I totally agree. |>
> I am already aiming for the steel version. No less magnificent than the other two, just less exclusive ;-)


Respect - that would be quite the catch.
these three are easily my "swoon moment" of basel - I wish I was able to step up to this level


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## MLJinAK

I don't have an issue with their re-brand efforts. Makes sense, using the Toyota/Lexus analogy. 

However - I think the balance of the design just fell off. 

Looks top heavy. Hope that isn't the new Snowflake... looks bad with so much open space below the hands. 

Should have known they'd botch it (IMO) after their hideous 'avant garden' straps last year. 

This is what happens when someone falls too in love with their abilities. Like great authors who think everything they do is gold... they end up flopping. 

However, I predict more success for GS worldwide. Simply by raising the price. Just getting the price high, that's a bragging point. 

Sales are sales, doesn't matter who buys them to Seiko. Garish customers who want to brag about spending cost of their watch, or an enthusiast, money doesn't discriminate. 

The re-brand is a business decision. Their market research must have found that the majority of people with $6+k to spend on a watch would go for it. 

Enthusiasts are a secondary concern. There will always be someone else who likes them if we don't.


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## Boomerdw

Deleted and reposted.


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## Boomerdw

mfaraday said:


> Here's the new Snowflake on the left. Honestly, the original design is what I will be sticking to.
> 
> View attachment 11274074
> [/QUOT
> And I do not blame you.
> 
> The watch on the right looks like it is missing something on the dial.
> 
> And the Spring Drive does look off balance now.
> 
> Frankly I do not do well with change and I happy happy to own my SBGX119, which I think has a marvelous simple dial. Stunning really.
> 
> http://www.seiyajapan.com/products/g...nt=19084696455
> 
> Click on the smaller pictures for upsizing.


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## jeffreyt

I *hate* the new GS branding! Some people may say that "hate" is too strong of a word. But I'm good with handling all of my emotions, both good and bad. So yes, I *hate* not seeing "SEIKO" on the new dial designs.

Eight is enough! I guess it's time to move on to JLC...

Jeff


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## riposte

My expetaction is true, damn

I need more time to accept it. I agree for quartz / Spring Drive, the dial looks empty, if Seiko very brave to add "quartz" on the dial, I will love it. But for Hi-Beat, it looks great!

IMO, for Hi-Beat it should be
Grand Seiko
GS on bottom
Hi-Beat 36000

for standard automatic
Grand Seiko
GS on bottom
Automatic

for quartz
Grand Seiko
GS on bottom
maybe add "quartz" too

And for Spring Drive
Grand Seiko
GS on bottom
removed PR indicator, "Spring Drive"

I'm sure it looks better and balance
---
I don't know why I'm always prefer Seiko-Citizen-Casio ads compared to Swiss ads. The video always looks better. They always successfully to capture modern/traditional culture-art-technology of Japan
I'm tired with Swiss ads style, with random electronic music mashed up with classical instruments, and rendered objects


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## JK919

Should've replaced Seiko with Grand Seiko up top, and replaced the GS with an equally sized lion on the bottom. Dial looks a bit sparse on the quartz model, and "spring drive" looks lonely on the snowflake.


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## ivanos

Great move.


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## bluedialer

JK919 said:


> Should've replaced Seiko with Grand Seiko up top, and replaced the GS with an equally sized lion on the bottom. Dial looks a bit sparse on the quartz model, and "spring drive" looks lonely on the snowflake.


Agree, a mini applied Lion medallion in the place the "GS" used to be would add a premium touch and would help the newly created 'situation' with the spring drive power reserve. Keep both GS and Grand Seiko up top, but a little lower, and and add the lion down below, imo.


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## Boomerdw

bluedialer said:


> Agree, a mini applied Lion medallion in the place the "GS" used to be would add a premium touch and would help the newly created 'situation' with the spring drive power reserve. Keep both GS and Grand Seiko up top, but a little lower, and and add the lion down below, imo.


I agree this would be better than an empty space especially with the now empty space on the quartz dials.


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## Timeless: Now WoS

New GS photos from Basel:














































































































​


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## matthew P

mfaraday said:


> Here's the new Snowflake on the left. Honestly, the original design is what I will be sticking to.
> 
> View attachment 11274074


Its taken 24 hours but I've already come around.
these all look great..... simple clean and sparse - pretty much what we love about GS dials/ cases and handset.
We've got so used to the miss matched font , SEIKO /GRANDSEIKO / GS, that we've come to appreciate its quirky mess but lets face it, at some point in time Ive certainly wondered why so much info was stuffed diwb there, why there were three or four different fonts and why they needed the trifecta of name branding.
Maybe if it was Grand Seiko up top and GS down the bottom it would be a softer transition.... or maybe drop the GS on the dial altogether..... certainly looks magnificent on the dress watches.
I won't be selling off my high beat for the cleaner look, I love it as is and would prefer to put the money into another piece. I also won't be selling of my GS diver..... the seiko works with the ghetto rubber I like to wear and the "just a seiko dive watch" works for me at work/ being a tool watch.

However I won't be lamenting the change.... the three above bumped for me yesterday but today I think they already look good.... even the snowflake with its power reserve that I've never liked.
Simple , clean , discreet.
Well done GS.

PS - LOVE the new look chronograph dials with no overlaps.
This watch is beyond awesome.


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## TahoeMac

So will Seiko begin to offer spring drive in there lower priced pieces?


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## Ahriman4891

matthew P said:


>


This is gorgeous. The 30m WR makes it a no-buy for me, but it is beautiful.

I don't understand why they couldn't just adopt the same "Grand Seiko" typeface as on the SBGW models, leave out the fugly "GS", and use the cursive script for the "hi-beat", "spring drive", and the rest of that nonsense, if they cannot bring themselves to drop it altogether. Yes, it would look weird on the ceramic monstrosities, but the current "GS Grand Seiko" looks weird on them too. This was their chance to set things straight, with the re-branding and everything, and they flushed it down the toilet.

Dear Grand Seiko - perhaps it's time to hire another actual designer? With proper training and a diploma? Remember Taro Tanaka, he did you so much good...


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## T1meout

matthew P said:


> PS - LOVE the new look chronograph dials with no overlaps.


Not quite. That PRI will obscure part of the subdial above it when fully charged.


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## Maxy

Timeless Luxury Watches said:


>


Looks like snowflake!! I think the logo is too much upside and towards the pointer to 12, it should have been little lower. Still not very bad if you something at bottom to balance it.


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## DimaL

matthew P said:


> Can I just say the these are magnificent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ah, now we talking! The middle one looks awesome... I'd personally prefer display case back however - I'm sure caliber is highly decorated, so it's a shame not to be able to adore it...


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## DimaL

Designs are definitely a matter of personal taste and preference. For me - I'd rather see a lonesome applied GS at the top -- about 10% bigger and little lower. Then Grand Seiko at the bottom and everything else unchanged. To put it short - replace Seiko with GS - that would do it for me. I think that will do just fine with brand identification without disbalancing the dials and causing too much of disturbance. 

As for lion on the top replacing the Seiko - I'd just leave lion for the back. Lion on top would just remind me of Orient. I own Orient Mako USA and I like it, but I don't want to see it's logo on GS.


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## G07

This looks awful - and the quartz looks even worst. Maybe a larger GS better positioned at 12 position and Grand Seiko with Automatic or Spring Drive below it (in better font) above 6 position?



Maxy said:


> Looks like snowflake!! I think the logo is too much upside and towards the pointer to 12, it should have been little lower. Still not very bad if you something at bottom to balance it.


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## yongsoo1982

I asked this over in F2 but probably should have asked here instead: on the SBGA211 (Snowflake 2) is "Spring Drive" still in blue? or is it black?


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## hankaarons

Ok, I took a posted photo earlier in this thread (credit to original poster, it's not my photo) and hacked it up:
Original:








No GS:








Moved GS:


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## hankaarons

I prefer the no "GS" one - just looks more balanced to me.


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## Boomerdw

I think the GS is needed.

And I actually like the top pic the best.

Script Grand Seiko is to small for the top. The larger GS looks better then scale while moving downward.

No reason other than just how it looks to my eye.


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## Watchseeker27

I prefer the GS on the bottom. I'd love to see a mockup like this on the snowflake...


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## G07

Can you try the GS only at the top with Grand Seiko below with Automatic under Grand Seiko?



hankaarons said:


> Ok, I took a posted photo earlier in this thread (credit to original poster, it's not my photo) and hacked it up:
> Original:
> View attachment 11289258
> 
> 
> No GS:
> View attachment 11289266
> 
> 
> Moved GS:
> View attachment 11289282


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## DustinS

Can we get a version without automatic and without GS? Cause I think that'll be the real winner


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## mfaraday

I think the "Grand Seiko" should be at 12 o'clock, applied like the GS, and slightly (10% or so) larger. The GS could then be at the 6 o'clock position, but it could be quite a bit smaller than in the mock ups. This would fill some of the empty space at 6 o'clock on the snowflake, as well as on the quartz models. I'm hoping that Grand Seiko plays with this idea a little with future releases. At the moment the logos at 12 o'clock are too high up. I have been upset over these changes more than I should be. After all they're just watches. If this sort of strategy brings more people to buy Grand Seiko then it was a smart move on their part.


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## Domo

yongsoo1982 said:


> I asked this over in F2 but probably should have asked here instead: on the SBGA211 (Snowflake 2) is "Spring Drive" still in blue? or is it black?


I THINK it's black. Looks like they de-blued the "HI BEAT 36000" too.


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## Dunelm

I don't own a Grand Seiko but I was expecting that one day I would buy a Spring Drive once the right model came along. The Spring Drive concept appeals to me so much that I think it would have to be a SD rather than an auto or quartz I go for. It's the autos and quartz models that have the case designs I like the most at the moment though...
Now I'm wondering if the right SD model will ever exist if I can't come around to the new dial layout. It's a big promotion for the GS to move up there to 12 o'clock. I think it was OK at 6 - it felt like some kind of a continuation of the various branding logos of the past like the Lord Matic LM, quartz SQ or crystal logo, Elnix arrow thingy logo etc.
I think I could be happy with Grand Seiko uop there on its own but as Gerald pointed out earlier, it's not suited to being in an applied form due to the separation of the letters. I liked the suggestion of an applied lion on the bottom half of the dial as well.

One thing I must get off that my chest is that AUTOMATIC text as printed on the SBGR305 - I can't get over how dismally mundane that typeface looks! And they're using that on all GS from now on? Oh dear.

Trying to optimistic, I'm hoping that Seiko will start using the Spring Drive movement in non-GS models with more mainstream designs than the small number they currently use it for. Also, perhaps Seiko will take GS so far upmarket that it'll open up space to (re)introduce something like...KING SEIKO!


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## Mavrobasilis

Whilst this move makes sense from a marketing perspective, part of the appeal (for me) of owning a GS is the unassuming image. Nothing to do with socialistic preoccupation, let alone guilt; more like the same reasons I find shell bluchers, unstructured neapolitan suits, cashmere jumpers and q cars irresistible. 

I am not terribly fond of the new look either and I am reasonably optimistic that this move will impact the resale value of the existing models as I don't intend to sell mine but I am definitely looking forward to adding more in bargain prices.


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## WiZARD7

I was planning to buy a Snowflake in the next 1-2 months.
Now I'm not sure what I want, first I thought I prefer the old one, but after checking many times the new without Seiko, I'm starting to like it.


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## zuiko

WiZARD7 said:


> I was planning to buy a Snowflake in the next 1-2 months.
> Now I'm not sure what I want, first I thought I prefer the old one, but after checking many times the new without Seiko, I'm starting to like it.


In a few months no one will think twice about whether the new logo system is good or bad. It's the new direction and we'll go that way if we're still GS fans.

I don't find the new SBGA211 to be bad or inferior; just different.

I look at it as a different watch. Like the SBGA059.

It has a snowflake dial, the very same one as on the 011 but it's not "THE" Snowflake.

Similarly with the new SBGA211. It's not the snowflake. It's a different watch to me.


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## Foxman2k

John Price said:


> Interesting. Looking at the photo of the new Snowflake I definitely miss the old logo and the GS logo down at 6 o'clock. While I get that it's a "cleaner" look, now that I see it, it looks unbalanced with the power reserve display sitting there "all by it's lonesome". I don't know, I think the logo at 6 o'clock helped balance out the power reserve. I never would've realized that until seeing it. Anyone else agree?


That was my immediate reaction as well!


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## matthew P

Im already on record as being in favor of the new lines.... Cleaner and simpler IMO.

I will say that, as with all GS watches, the subtle differences will be most apparent on wrist.
If you are lucky enough to be able to compare both side by rise I suspect one will jump out as being the favorite.

While the new "information" font is bland I suspect on wrist it will fall of into the background and the new GS branding above the hands will catch your eye.... I don't think anyone will argue that the three or four different fonts of old is actually preferable , we're just used to it. 
The lack of font will also draw more attention to the snowflake dial which ultimately is what make that version so impressive. 
The asymmetrical placement of the power reserve always stuck out but its still balanced by the date window, its just that now theres less on the bottom half of the dial balancing the top.
I suspect the photoshop crew will be able to spend the next couple of months presenting strong arguments that the "grand Seiko" up top could be bigger and possibly applied, and the GS could have stayed applied on top of the text at 6 below the hands. This would have balanced the top/ bottom of the dial better but it would have mixed up the modern/ gothic type face again...... more balanced?- maybe, cleaner?- not sure.

Either way all of these changes will be no where as apparent on wrist V on a large desk top computer screen - I suspect after 5 minutes you will hardly notice. 
I can guarantee that with my current Highbeat Ive never noticed the mixed font or blue font color on the dial when its on wrist..... its all about the blue seconds hand, the polish/ sparkle as the watch plays with the light and the perfect fit and simple clean execution of the watch overall..... none of those elements have changed, so if a discounted "old school model " makes strong financial sense get into your dealer now.

Best of luck with your purchase..... very interesting and promising times for GS IMO.


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## Squeaks5635

I feel like this picture was purposely taken with the hands in that location to help even out the dial. When can we expect some side by side typical 10/2 shots of this quality. Thanks for posting the photo earlier in the thread.


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## T1meout

Squeaks5635 said:


> I feel like this picture was purposely taken with the hands in that location to help even out the dial. When can we expect some side by side typical 10/2 shots of this quality. Thanks for posting the photo earlier in the thread.
> 
> View attachment 11307066


You make a compelling argument.


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## AKM

Has a whiff of 'Orient Star' about it if you ask me; previous version was more classic.


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## bluedialer

Squeaks5635 said:


> I feel like this picture was purposely taken with the hands in that location to help even out the dial. When can we expect some side by side typical 10/2 shots of this quality. Thanks for posting the photo earlier in the thread.
> 
> View attachment 11307066


Exactly my thought when I saw this image. I mean, sheesh.. It's like the hands are trying to hide its private parts or something.


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## mui.richard

This was perfect









This? Not so much...makes the dial top heavy and that's never good design.









The old snowflake dial looks much more balanced.









In fact all they bad to do is simply take out "Seiko", move "Grand Seiko" to 12:00 (and scale it a bit maybe) and move the "GS" insignia and "Spring Drive" closer and they would have bad a much more balance dial...the power reserve indicator notwithstanding.

But hey what the neck do I know, right? 

Sent from my F8132 using Tapatalk


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## AKM

bluedialer said:


> Exactly my thought when I saw this image. I mean, sheesh..
> 
> View attachment 11309378


Another great design ruined. The existing spring drive diver was the 'ultimate SKX diver' derived design, now it just looks odd and unfinished.


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## Brny11

Spring drive, dial work, case finish, minute markers, sharp multifaceted hands, blue second, display back and spring drive movement = perfection. Either way it is branded, it is a Seiko - and I am proud of that. I love my Seiko Snowflake and agree the new dial looks a little plain... but I can appreciate the appeal of the independent branding. Would be nice if the value increases on the 011 but doesn't really matter as I will likely never sell. 

Looking forward to stopping into Orlando Watch Co when the new lineup hits the store!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Boomerdw

matthew P said:


> Can I just say the these are magnificent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree 100%

But I am not happy with the open space on the bottom of the dial of the Quartz models or the Spring Drive.


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## OmarJ

My View: Don't mess with a perfect product..

Seiko sold off to the money (new management?) - hopefully the money comes which will make everyone happy: 
1- The enthusiast as the market price will go up and their Seiko GS collection will be more valuable
2- Seiko Corp (or should I say Grand Seiko) as they will have more sales and profits from the rebranding

I still love my Messy GMT Freak with 4 Fonts Sizes and Types, and Three Colors - I LOVE IT!









*PS:* I think this is a transition, and GS will figure out the texts and the dials sooner than later.


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## NorthMac

Here is a thought experiment: Imagine that Tudor was established a long time and there was no Rolex. One day Tudor decided to make a high-end luxury watch brand, and the new watches were labelled "Super Tudor". Their first watch designs featured the traditional Tudor rose logo, the traditional "Tudor" text, and the new name "Super Tudor" added at the bottom to distinguish the new brand. 

Would you not laugh?


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## yongsoo1982

NorthMac said:


> Here is a thought experiment: Imagine that Tudor was established a long time and there was no Rolex. One day Tudor decided to make a high-end luxury watch brand, and the new watches were labelled "Super Tudor". Their first watch designs featured the traditional Tudor rose logo, the traditional "Tudor" text, and the new name "Super Tudor" added at the bottom to distinguish the new brand.
> 
> Would you not laugh?


probably, but only because the superlative "super" conjures cartoony images and fastfood. "Grand" has more elegance to it, imo. _See_ Hyatt, Theft-Auto, Rapids, Canyon, Piano, Jeep Cherokee, Slam, etc. Inserting "Super" into any of those sounds silly


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## Btreichel87

mfaraday said:


> Here's the new Snowflake on the left. Honestly, the original design is what I will be sticking to.
> 
> View attachment 11274074


 I'll be honest, the Snowflake and the quartz look way too bland without anything above the 6 o'clock indicator. The GMT looks nice cuz it's balanced head to toe, but the other two look off to me. I'm sure it's because it's what i'm used to, but is anyone else in this boat? The dial just looks like there's something missing.


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## Btreichel87

can u do another one with only GS on top, and Grand Seiko on the bottom along with automatic? I kinda want to see what that would look like.


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## Laso1




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## bluedialer

I think I saw that horse flinch, let's continue.


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## appleb

What seems to be the problem is the company wide update of existing models.


Imagine working on the design of the first spring drive layout. Text is moved one millimeter this way then that way. Font sizes are changed. Everything is painstakingly adjusted until the perfect balance is found. Many design meetings to finally decide the power reserve offset to the bottom left is the best place for it. All this is done over several months until they reach a final product that looks PERFECT.


Then along comes Mr Upper Management, who in one fell swoop says to remove that Seiko logo and move Grand Seiko on top on all their existing models. This is done with total disregard to balance or any previous design decisions.


I'm sure going forward the Grand Seiko logo will work out on newer models, because newer models will be designed knowing the GS text will exist on top. But the change to existing models looks like it was hastily done.


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## hankaarons

appleb said:


> What seems to be the problem is the company wide update of existing models.
> 
> Imagine working on the design of the first spring drive layout. Text is moved one millimeter this way then that way. Font sizes are changed. Everything is painstakingly adjusted until the perfect balance is found. Many design meetings to finally decide the power reserve offset to the bottom left is the best place for it. All this is done over several months until they reach a final product that looks PERFECT.
> 
> Then along comes Mr Upper Management, who in one fell swoop says to remove that Seiko logo and move Grand Seiko on top on all their existing models. This is done with total disregard to balance or any previous design decisions.
> 
> I'm sure going forward the Grand Seiko logo will work out on newer models, because newer models will be designed knowing the GS text will exist on top. But the change to existing models looks like it was hastily done.


One can hope this is the case...


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## Squeaks5635

link to the video footage of the new snowflake with the hands in a much less "covering" position. Thanks timeless.


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## Foxman2k

Prefer th current model


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## dsquared24

Squeaks5635 said:


> link to the video footage of the new snowflake with the hands in a much less "covering" position. Thanks timeless.


Thanks for the link. Yeah that's still not looking as good as the 011

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ahonobaka

More footage, this time with a few models. I encourage everyone who was on the fence with the new dial to give this a perusal....It has honestly changed my mind even about the SBGA's which I thought were too uncluttered for a tool watch. I'm willing to bet most of us will come to accept the new dial once we see them in person and in motion:






And a bonus Watchuseek video:


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## TightLines612

Raeally itching to see some more of new dials. SBGJ019, SBGX115....


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## theEntreriCode

I prefer the older Seiko Grand Seiko text. Does this mean that once stock is exhausted, all new watches will follow the new branding? Or does that sound only apply to future releases? If so then I need to seriously consider buying one GS this year. 


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## T1meout

theEntreriCode said:


> I prefer the older Seiko Grand Seiko text. Does this mean that once stock is exhausted, all new watches will follow the new branding? Or does that sound only apply to future releases? If so then I need to seriously consider buying one GS this year.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, this applies to all models including existing ones.


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## Maxy

Not good with picture editing but I tried to push the GS logo a little lower. It was too close to the 12 marker, now looks good!!

*Current version vs Should be version..*


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## bluedialer

Maxy said:


> Not good with picture editing but I tried to push the GS logo a little lower. It was too close to the 12 marker, now looks good!!
> 
> *Current version vs Should be version..*


Definitely better in the edited version.


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## Tseg

zuiko said:


> In a few months no one will think twice about whether the new logo system is good or bad. It's the new direction and we'll go that way if we're still GS fans.


You are probably right. Last year when the ceramic cased GS's were launched every one pooh-poohed them... and now look at them. :think:


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## zuiko

I think the power reserve on the spring drives needs to be moved to be fan shaped pointing towards 9 index.

Here's a quick and dirty mangled photoshop (this is an edit of an edit so excuse the quality) - I would have the logos arranged differently but the PR needs a definite move / rethink. They will probably continue to use the existing dial dies until they can redesign.


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## T1meout

Doesn't help one iota IMHO. That PR indicator just sticks out like a sore thumb regardless of where it's located on the dial.


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## slow_mo

I'm fine with the PR indicator's previous position. The previous branding labels looks better imho.


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## Tseg

zuiko said:


> I think the power reserve on the spring drives needs to be moved to be fan shaped pointing towards 9 index.
> 
> Here's a quick and dirty mangled photoshop (this is an edit of an edit so excuse the quality) - I would have the logos arranged differently but the PR needs a definite move / rethink. They will probably continue to use the existing dial dies until they can redesign.


To move a power reserve they either have to build a new movement from scratch or tilt the current movement so the crown and date is at 4:30... Then a significant case redesign would be in order.


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## zuiko

Tseg said:


> To move a power reserve they either have to build a new movement from scratch or tilt the current movement so the crown and date is at 4:30... Then a significant case redesign would be in order.


Yes.

Unless they leave the PR out of the dial or...

Some movements have enough space to be modified to add an intermediary gear that can transfer the PR information to another nearby space on the dial. I don't know enough about the SD movement in general to know how straightforward this would be.

Seiko has used the SD with other PR locations in past watches, so it wouldn't be a complete re-invention of the wheel.


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## thecouchguy

I like the change. Not having much to do with GS in the past probably helps. If I had a history with the brand then the change would probably bother me.


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## georges zaslavsky

interesting models for sure


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## larthurl

I agree. The logo should be a little lower on this and some other new models.
I am surprised GS didn't have a more balanced position for the new logo.


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## bkdc

I noticed that the logo appears more balanced on those with smaller 37 and 39mm dials such as the SBGA283/SBGA285, SBGR251/SBGA253. There is less blank space under the logo. Seiko doesn't seem to be proportionally adjusting the distance or size of the logo with larger dials.

I also noticed that the small logo attracts more attention because it's less obvious/legible. Rather than having a huge legible SEIKO which satisfies the curiosity at a casual glance, people now have to look very closely or ask because the build quality and reflective surfaces of the markers and case draw attention.


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## WatchLearnCollect

If by chance this forum is monitored by Seiko, my opinion is that dropping Seiko from the dial frees up valuable real estate, and allows Grand Seiko to achieve parity with the Swiss brands in form and recognition, not just function.


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## larthurl

larthurl said:


> I agree. The logo should be a little lower on this and some other new models.
> I am surprised GS didn't have a more balanced position for the new logo.


So I just noticed this morning that even on the existing Grand Seiko models, the Marquis logo is higher than I thought.

So apparently, this is nothing new.


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## fskywalker

Older dial does look better IMHO


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## biokeys87

fskywalker said:


> Older dial does look better IMHO


Agree, buddy. I just can't deal with most of these new dials. Not until I see more of these in person!

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## Blastar

Guys, no worries, GS will eventually make some Limited Edition with SEIKO on top


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## bkdc

Too much focus on the logo. A quality watch is a quality watch, and I think the new logo will eventually become accepted. It's even more "under the radar" because the logo is not easily recognized and the "Grand Seiko" print is much smaller than the older "SEIKO".


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## ahonobaka

^I've long accepted the new logo months ago and still get surprised when I see this conversation is still going...Perhaps I spend way too much time on the forums and thinking/looking at watches, but come on people!


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