# 50th Anniversary El Primero A384 Revival - Sleepless in Vancouver!



## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Dropped by Time & Gold here in Vancouver today, to enquire about a steel bracelet for another watch. I never dreamed of walking out with a new Zenith on my wrist. We got talking about all watches, as we normally do, and when it came to Zenith, I was told they had received the new El Primero A384 Revival. To be honest, I was rather unenthusiastic - although I did really want to see the watch in real life - because I had almost given up on finding a cushion shape case in any make or model that I would find suitable. And I had briefly read reviews on the A384. However, I was still pouting about the 50th Anniversary A386 lack of availability both in number and in case material. I never thought I would even see one in real life. I have long been a fan of the Chronomaster El Primero Original 1969 38mm based on the A386, and thought the A386 Revival would be perfect. But I realized it was not to be.

Well, when I first saw the A384 today in it's case, I was blown away. I don't know where to start really. The Panda dial is a vivid white background - unlike most photos, which make it look greyish or off white, with pure black subdials that have white hands. And the true red chronograph hand with the rectangular tip, true to the original, just contrast beautifully. And the black tachymetre track around the outside of the dial, brings everything together perfectly. And the size!!! The case, at 37mm, does admittedly fit larger, but it is still not large. If that make sense. It looks absolutely stunning on the wrist - not just my wrist, but I am sure on any wrist - the proportions are absolutely perfect. Could they really have got it that right back in 1969?! I normally don't look at any watch I am trying on, in the mirror, but this one just looks so perfect. And the beautiful leather/crocodile leather strap with rubber lining suits it perfectly. Although, the vintage style ladder type steel bracelet I see in photos looks great as well. Anyway, even the tang buckle is period perfect.

The only hints that this is not vintage are the sapphire crystal ( original was acrylic ) and sapphire case back. The original had a rather plain case back with the Zenith star embossed over the entire back. I normally prefer a solid case back on watches, but with Zenith El Primero I am more than willing to forgive the sapphire back. Especially since the rotor is so beautifully done with the Zenith star cutout. And the rest of the case back is beautifully engraved with "50th Anniversary Edition" at the bottom and "1969 - 2019" on the top. I don't know quite how they manage it, but the case back is screwed in so that the text is perfectly aligned top and bottom. And, of course, the El Primero 400 movement is the latest.

I must also mention that the sapphire crystal is identical in shape to the original, and it does give that magnificent distortion at the edges.

I never thought that I would see a Zenith model with the El Primero 400 movement that would impress me more than the A386/Chronomaster El Primero. Time was definitely on my side when I waited, not knowing this would be the one. While I love the tri-color subdials on the A386, and I am not usually a fan of the Panda dial, this one just tops any Zenith I have seen so far. I also own a Pilot Cronometro Tipo CP-2 Bronze which is gorgeous, and an Pilot Big Date Special, but this one tops even those. It is undoubtedly the nicest vintage or vintage revival watch I have ever seen in real life.

Not going into any more detail on this watch. There are countless excellent online reviews from Basel 2019, which I simply can't top for content and accuracy. I just know that this watch is a true gem, and it will very likely become No.1 in my personal collection.

Here are a few photos I took having got the watch rather late in the day. I can't wait until to get some better pics tomorrow:

















































Thanks to Ryan, Juanita and Ben at Time & Gold here in Vancouver. Once again proving it is one of my favorite places to spend time. I am just so overwhelmed by this watch and so thankful that they received it from Zenith. Thanks for looking at my review.

Cheers,
Carl


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

congrats and wear it in good health


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Congratulations, it's simply beautiful.


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## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

What’s the “ lug to lug “ on that beauty?


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## too solid (Mar 26, 2010)

What a beauty!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## marcusp23 (May 23, 2015)

Wow, that is a cool watch. And the pics are amazing as always Carl. Congrats!


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

georges zaslavsky said:


> congrats and wear it in good health


Thanks, Georges. I will be 70 soon, so good health permitting I will be able to enjoy this amazing watch for many years to come!



sempervivens said:


> Congratulations, it's simply beautiful.


Thanks. It's beauty hit me immediately I first saw it in real life yesterday.



jmanlay said:


> What's the " lug to lug " on that beauty?


Just measured, as I could find no official figures for either lug to lug or lug width:
lug to lug is 47mm
lug width is 19mm
case size is 37mm. Because of the case shape, I had to measure for myself, and it really is 37mm, not including crown and pushers of course.
case thickness 12.6mm



too solid said:


> What a beauty!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. Possibly - and IMO - the nicest of the El Primero 50th Anniversary revival pieces



marcusp23 said:


> Wow, that is a cool watch. And the pics are amazing as always Carl. Congrats!


Thank You! Gonna spend the day with my new watch today, and take lots more pics.


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## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

carlhaluss said:


> Just measured, as I could find no official figures for either lug to lug or lug width:
> lug to lug is 47mm
> lug width is 19mm
> case size is 37mm. Because of the case shape, I had to measure for myself, and it really is 37mm, not including crown and pushers of course.
> ...


So essentially perfect size wise ...
Thanks for the measurements


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## MuckyMark (Aug 9, 2015)

Congrats @carl


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

A wonderful watch! What I find interesting is the polished lugs contrasting with a satinised case.....

Hartmut Richter


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Hartmut Richter said:


> A wonderful watch! What I find interesting is the polished lugs contrasting with a satinised case.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Yes. And what is great as well, is how even the side of the case between the lugs is polished. The satin brushing is beautifully done as well, fine lines extending to the corners of the top of the case. And the beveled edgo on the sides of the case being polished.

While I am not a true vintage guy, in the sense that I don't really have the knowledge or even courage to own an excellent vintage piece, I always look for vintage revival pieces. This has all the others I have seen so far beat. I am really fortunate to own each one of the Omega 60th Anniversary Trilogy (not the 3 piece set, but got each one individually over a couple of years), and love them, I think that this Zenith is even slightly better. While I love the use of the faux patina on the Omega watches, the fact that this one does not have that feature is even better IMO.

A great amount of research and development has gone into this watch. So much, that I already appreciate it the most of any watch in my collection.

Cheers,
Carl


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

Congratulations Carl! That’s a fantastic piece. I had an experience that’s a bit similar to yours. I’ve always been a huge fan of the A386, which I why I bought the Original 1969 38mm. I’ve always loved that watch and never considered buying one of the actual vintage Zeniths. 

However, I recently found a used A384 and ha to pick it up. It was the first time I tried on one of the tonneau shaped models from ‘69. They’re amazing! As you’ve pointed out, the size, shape and overall dimensions somehow feel fantastic in a way that other watches don’t. It’s funny because the dial design is such that one would think that it would leave the watch feeling small. The inner tachymeter in black shrinks the white dial in the center and the El Primero’s tighter configuration with the subdials closer to the center than other chronos should technically make it feel small, like a sub-35 mm watch. However, it definitely doesn’t give that impression on the wrist. In fact it’s perfect. 

I’m probably going to have to spend a fortune getting it restored, which you’ll be able to skip with your modern piece. I wonder if the availability of the reissue will mean that new parts that are true to the original will be available for servicing. Anyway, I’m going to open a thread to request some input on how to restore my new old watch. Congrats again for you genuinely new A384!


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

WTSP said:


> Congratulations Carl! That's a fantastic piece. I had an experience that's a bit similar to yours. I've always been a huge fan of the A386, which I why I bought the Original 1969 38mm. I've always loved that watch and never considered buying one of the actual vintage Zeniths.
> 
> However, I recently found a used A384 and ha to pick it up. It was the first time I tried on one of the tonneau shaped models from '69. They're amazing! As you've pointed out, the size, shape and overall dimensions somehow feel fantastic in a way that other watches don't. It's funny because the dial design is such that one would think that it would leave the watch feeling small. The inner tachymeter in black shrinks the white dial in the center and the El Primero's tighter configuration with the subdials closer to the center than other chronos should technically make it feel small, like a sub-35 mm watch. However, it definitely doesn't give that impression on the wrist. In fact it's perfect.
> 
> I'm probably going to have to spend a fortune getting it restored, which you'll be able to skip with your modern piece. I wonder if the availability of the reissue will mean that new parts that are true to the original will be available for servicing. Anyway, I'm going to open a thread to request some input on how to restore my new old watch. Congrats again for you genuinely new A384!


Great to hear your story! Imagine picking up a vintage A384. I always wanted a quality vintage piece, but never quite had the courage to go ahead, get one, and get in restored. Turns out, the very place I bought my new one could take care of all that for me. Never mind, this one gives me more than I ever wanted or, at least, didn't know I wanted. I was a huge fan of the A386 until I saw this one, and was surprised that I like it even better! Same with my friend at the AD who sold it to me. He has been longing for the Chrono 1969 38mm with the multi colored subdials, but now this A384 is a "must have" for him. One of the watchmakers at the AD who I have come to know real well was there also, and we all shared our enthusiasm for this watch. It was a fantastic experience! Especially to know these guys are not just trying to sell me a watch, but want to make sure this special model goes to someone they know who will appreciate it.

I will be looking forward to seeing your pics and following the restoration of your vintage A384!

Cheers,
Carl


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## dredzz (Apr 7, 2018)

Wonderful watch Carl, it's a must have. Wear it in good health !


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## omeglycine (Jan 21, 2011)

Congratulations, Carl! It impressing the most in a collection as stellar as yours is quite high praise.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

dredzz said:


> Wonderful watch Carl, it's a must have. Wear it in good health !


It was indeed love at first sight, and a must have. I decided on the spot that I had to have it, and sort out later which of my watches I will sell.



omeglycine said:


> Congratulations, Carl! It impressing the most in a collection as stellar as yours is quite high praise.


I mentioned to a friend today that I would be willing to give up all the other watches (although not happily) in my collection if I had to, just to keep this one. It has, at this point anyway, obliterated any thoughts I had about other watches on my wish list.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Just to make this thread more pic heavy, adding some more taken yesterday:


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

It certainly glows more than the originals do (nowadays)!! Thanks for the lume piccies.

Hartmut Richter


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

I'm a bit curious whether the crown is also an exact copy of the original: the size looks the same, but the logo may be different?


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

sempervivens said:


> I'm a bit curious whether the crown is also an exact copy of the original: the size looks the same, but the logo may be different?


I will try and take a closer look. I know that even the clasp on the strap is correct. I would be surprised if the crown logo is different.

Cheers,
Carl


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

sempervivens said:


> I'm a bit curious whether the crown is also an exact copy of the original: the size looks the same, but the logo may be different?


I did manage to look at a few examples. In one, the five pointed star was there, although not as heavily embossed as the new one and looks slightly smaller. The other one, it actually has a four pointed star which matches the star on the case back at the time:









So far, in my search, I saw 2 different crown logos. one like the above and one with a five pointed star that I mentioned above. The shape of the crown is the same. There is not really a modern day version to compare it to, as in the A386 and the Chronomaster 38mm. The Chronomaster does have a slightly different, more rounded top crown that the A386.

The online photos I see of the original and the revival seem almost identical, at least from the side. And I looked at mine through a loupe. There was also a brownish dial version of the A384, and I wonder if it had the same crown as the panda model? This is the crown on mine although in fairness not worn yet:









Interesting observation, I am going to do a little more digging.

Cheers,
Carl


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Thanks for the picture, as I thought, it is the modern logo rather than the 1969-1972 logo. So they're not going to spoil the vintage market entirely yet.

The original crown was a little over 6 mm in diameter.

The 'brownish' A384 is the same A384, however the black colour used in '69 tends to lose its colour and turns to brown: another unique feature of the original which I doubt they've copied


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## dantan (Dec 16, 2014)

Congratulations on your Zenith, Carl!

Wear it in great health!

It looks amazing.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

sempervivens said:


> Thanks for the picture, as I thought, it is the modern logo rather than the 1969-1972 logo. So they're not going to spoil the vintage market entirely yet.
> 
> The original crown was a little over 6 mm in diameter.
> 
> The 'brownish' A384 is the same A384, however the black colour used in '69 tends to lose its colour and turns to brown: another unique feature of the original which I doubt they've copied


Thanks for clearing up the issue of the brown dial. I actually thought there was a brown dial as well. As I look back at the vintage models, the ones that are/were for sale actually say "Tropical Brown" dial. When you read the details it says "original white dial with black subdials and tachymeter scale that have turned to an even tropical brown". I haven't seen one of those, but in the pics it's amazing how even the dial and subdials are in color.

As for the crown, I'm glad you pointed it out. Although it's a bit of a disappointment, although nothing to warrant any displeasure with the watch. Measuring, the crown is indeed just a hair over 6mm. So size is the same. Odd that they wouldn't go the extra step to do the crown logo as well. Especially when there are details like the rectangular tip on the chrono hand, instead of the Zenith star.

The original had a four pointed star on the case back, with matching star on the crown (you likely know this already, but I do find it interesting):


















This one had a different logo on the crown, although the caseback has the four pointed star:









Odd that they would have the four pointed star logo on the crown and case back, yet on the dial under 12 o'clock is the traditional 5-pointed Zenith star. You can tell even though most of the logo is covered by the hand:









Now, I'm rather curious as to why Zenith would not use the original crown logo design. Especially after all the exhaustive research and development that went into this piece. The only thing I can think of is that they wanted the logo on the crown and dial to match up.

Thanks a lot for all your observations. It means a lot to me when I get posts like your's. I am only just starting to learn about this model - both vintage and revival - so it adds to the excitement for me!

Cheers,
Carl


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

dantan said:


> Congratulations on your Zenith, Carl!
> 
> Wear it in great health!
> 
> It looks amazing.


Thanks, Dan. I have secretly been searching for a new or vintage piece with either a square dial or similar unique shape, for a long time. I just never came across one that really grabbed me like this one. I even tried on the Tag Monaco models a few times. They just didn't work for me on the wrist. I even thought about an Omega Bullhead at one time when they had some models at the Boutique. The Cartier Santos, like the one you have, really got my interest as well, and tried it on a few times at the Boutique. And I have seen various vintage square pieces at a local watchmaker who does consignment. When I first saw photos of this one back in June or so, although it looked great in the photos I had already lost some enthusiasm in ever finding a unique shaped case that really works for me. I can forgive the date on this one, as it was on the original, oddly enough I really like it, down to the last detail. It now holds the No.1 spot in my collection!

Cheers,
Carl


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## Eshiao (Aug 28, 2019)

It looks like the logo has changed a few times throughout the years. Crown went from five points to four on crown when it had a partnership with Movado. I would imagine with zenith trying to gain popularity with the younger crowd they need a concrete, appealing logo that does not change, and went back to its roots. As for not putting the four star in the revival it makes sense, and is pretty minor to me since the back case was changed to crystal as well. It would look kind of strange if one does not know the history behind the logos/changes.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

When saying "brownish dial", I presume you mean the A385 (the last in the trio of the very first of the very first)?! That can't really be mistaken for the A384 since the subdials are white (not black) and the subdial hands are black (not white).....

Hartmut Richter


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Eshiao said:


> It looks like the logo has changed a few times throughout the years. Crown went from five points to four on crown when it had a partnership with Movado. I would imagine with zenith trying to gain popularity with the younger crowd they need a concrete, appealing logo that does not change, and went back to its roots. As for not putting the four star in the revival it makes sense, and is pretty minor to me since the back case was changed to crystal as well. It would look kind of strange if one does not know the history behind the logos/changes.


Well said! And I agree that the choice they made with the updated 5-star logo has a lot to do with the sapphire case back as well. I am sure also, that they put a lot of thought even into a small detail like the logo on the crown. I am sure there is good reasoning behind that. It certainly doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the watch one bit!

Thanks for the bit about Movado. I had no idea about that relationship at all.

By the way, I sent a comment to Zenith regarding the 10bar rating they give the water resistance. If you scroll down into the case/movement details, though, it does say 5bar. Nevertheless, it could put a person off by be mislead on the water resistance.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Hartmut Richter said:


> When saying "brownish dial", I presume you mean the A385 (the last in the trio of the very first of the very first)?! That can't really be mistaken for the A384 since the subdials are white (not black) and the subdial hands are black (not white).....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Yes! I had all but forgotten about the A385. But I did mean the A384, where the black subdials had become a "tropical" shade. I see the A385 must have started out as black, and faded as well. That is a great looking watch as well. Had the same four pointed star logo on the crown as well and four star crown on case back.

Thanks for chiming in, Harmut. Getting this A384 Revival has really been a wonderful learning experience for me, for many of the vintage Zeniths. A384, 385 and 386!

Cheers,
Carl


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## dantan (Dec 16, 2014)

carlhaluss said:


> Thanks, Dan. I have secretly been searching for a new or vintage piece with either a square dial or similar unique shape, for a long time. I just never came across one that really grabbed me like this one. I even tried on the Tag Monaco models a few times. They just didn't work for me on the wrist. I even thought about an Omega Bullhead at one time when they had some models at the Boutique. The Cartier Santos, like the one you have, really got my interest as well, and tried it on a few times at the Boutique. And I have seen various vintage square pieces at a local watchmaker who does consignment. When I first saw photos of this one back in June or so, although it looked great in the photos I had already lost some enthusiasm in ever finding a unique shaped case that really works for me. I can forgive the date on this one, as it was on the original, oddly enough I really like it, down to the last detail. It now holds the No.1 spot in my collection!
> 
> Cheers,
> Carl


This Zenith really is beautiful, and I am not surprised that it holds the number one spot in your collection.

I am a huge fan of Zenith.

I have owned two Zenith Watches over the years and would love to own a Zenith again.


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

Interesting to see that example with the Zenith/Movado four point star crown. My vintage A384 has that as well. I figured it was a service crown. For a moment I panicked as I imagined that it was possible that a caliber 400 might be in my watch rather than 3019 PHC, but the date ring has aged to be the same beige colour as the dial so I expect the movement is original.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

WTSP said:


> Interesting to see that example with the Zenith/Movado four point star crown. My vintage A384 has that as well. I figured it was a service crown. For a moment I panicked as I imagined that it was possible that a caliber 400 might be in my watch rather than 3019 PHC, but the date ring has aged to be the same beige colour as the dial so I expect the movement is original.


Yeah, thanks for pointing out the Zenith/Movado relationship, as another member pointed out. I had no idea about that, and now I know the reason for that four point star on case back and crown. I was wondering my A384 Revival had the five point star.

And I had no idea about the El Primero being nicknamed 3019 PHC, so I am learning something new yet again thanks to you. I did find the great write-up from Monochrome, which further explains the movement and the Zenith/Movado relationship:
https://monochrome-watches.com/the-...siting-one-of-the-most-iconic-movements-ever/

I was wondering about why the crown on my revival. Now, it starts to make sense. I imagine Zenith wants the crown, dial, buckle and rotor to all be signed with the 5 pointed star. I guess that somheow putting the old case back and crown on the revival would not make sense, as there in no longer the relationship with Movado. Maybe it's just me, but I like to find an explanation for the smaller things like crown logo etc. I just feel better once I understand the reasoning.

Cheers,
Carl


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Wrong! The Cal. 3019 PHC was nicknamed the "El Primero"!

Cal. "3019 PHC" follows the old Zenith designation (inherited from Martel): "30" is the movemnt diameter in mm, "1" is the order of movements in that size and type in the Zenith lists (so the El Primero is the first of its kind: 30mm chronograph, either post new code introduction or as an automatic chronograph) and "9" is chronograph. "P" is "power" (i.e. automatic winding), "H" is "hour" (totaliser) and "C" is "calendar" (i.e. date feature). The full calendar with moonphase is the 3019 PHF where "F" stands for "full calendar".

Hartmut Richter


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Hartmut Richter said:


> Wrong! The Cal. 3019 PHC was nicknamed the "El Primero"!
> 
> Cal. "3019 PHC" follows the old Zenith designation (inherited from Martel): "30" is the movemnt diameter in mm, "1" is the order of movements in that size and type in the Zenith lists (so the El Primero is the first of its kind: 30mm chronograph, either post new code introduction or as an automatic chronograph) and "9" is chronograph. "P" is "power" (i.e. automatic winding), "H" is "hour" (totaliser) and "C" is "calendar" (i.e. date feature). The full calendar with moonphase is the 3019 PHF where "F" stands for "full calendar".
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks for clearing that up!

Cheers,
Carl


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

I don't want to cause you any more sleepless nights, and I know it looks great on the leather band, but how come you didn't get the original bracelet as well?


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

sempervivens said:


> I don't want to cause you any more sleepless nights, and I know it looks great on the leather band, but how come you didn't get the original bracelet as well?


Ha! Too late, I already have trouble sleeping as it is! :-d

Well, it is still a consideration. For one thing, it would have to be ordered separately. And, to be honest, I am not really a fan of the looks. Admittedly, it would me I have a complete package. Over the years, I have come from being a bracelet guy, to preferring almost all my watches on a leather strap. I also love the contrast of the black strap against the vivid colors of the dial. And the watch, as is, is sooooo comfortable. I guess I just don't want to interfere with what I feel is already perfection. And I love observing the leather as it gains patina and wears in.

Actually, I'm going to my AD today and, out of curiosity, will ask what the bracelet would cost.

Cheers,
Carl


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Admittedly it is an acquired taste but the original bracelet is really something special in itself and I was amazed to see they managed a reproduction of that as well. Wonder if it is still made by Gay Frères.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

sempervivens said:


> Admittedly it is an acquired taste but the original bracelet is really something special in itself and I was amazed to see they managed a reproduction of that as well. Wonder if it is still made by Gay Frères.


You are right. So unique. I have done some reading about it, so definitely warrants attention. The thoughts that you put in my mind are definitely worth a few more sleepless nights!

It is true as well, how one acquires a taste for some details over time. I never really liked the narrow bezel, for example, on the original Omega Seamaster 300. When the Trilogy were introduced, I still didn't care for it. When I finally got to see it in real life, and visited the watch a few times, it grew on me. Now, it is one of my favorite watches.

Cheers,
Carl


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Well I recommend you get it but I hope it's not too expensive. All this now reminds me of my own A384, one of my best (together with the A385 and A386) vintage El Primero's, a fortunate find now seven years ago, with original bracelet and papers.








'Caught a big fish...'


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

sempervivens said:


> Well I recommend you get it but I hope it's not too expensive. All this now reminds me of my own A384, one of my best (together with the A385 and A386) vintage El Primero's, a fortunate find now seven years ago, with original bracelet and papers.
> 
> View attachment 14435555
> 
> 'Caught a big fish...'


That is a great photo. It does make me admire how close the new one is to the original. I just ordered a buckle for my Pilot Big Date Special, as the deployant clasp was driving me mad. That is quite expensive, so I can only imagine what the bracelet for the A384 must cost. The purchase of the A384 was not expected, and came as a complete surprise, but I could not resist. I just don't know how long they will produce it, if it really is "unlimited" in terms of number and time.

You did very well to get a vintage with boxes and papers! Seven years ago, I was barely aware of the Zenith brand. Now it is my favorite. Funny how this hobby is, even though I am almost 70 years old, I keep on discovering new likes and learning so much!

I wonder if they are still working on making the bracelet, or if it is in production already?

Cheers,
Carl


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## Artking3 (Mar 24, 2018)

sempervivens said:


> Admittedly it is an acquired taste but the original bracelet is really something special in itself and I was amazed to see they managed a reproduction of that as well. Wonder if it is still made by Gay Frères.


Rolex bought out Gay Freres to make their current bracelets, so not likely.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Artking3 said:


> Rolex bought out Gay Freres to make their current bracelets, so not likely.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very interesting bit of news. Thanks. Well, judging by the quality of the A384 update, I'm sure they will do an amazing reproduction of the bracelet anyway. Thanks for replying.

Cheers,
Carl


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Box was not included with my A384, only the original papers, which is fairly rare as it is.

I remember seeing the bracelet on the new watch in a post, so I thought it was already available.


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## Artking3 (Mar 24, 2018)

carlhaluss said:


> Very interesting bit of news. Thanks. Well, judging by the quality of the A384 update, I'm sure they will do an amazing reproduction of the bracelet anyway. Thanks for replying.
> 
> Cheers,
> Carl


I do hope they are making the ladder bracelet. I was at the Zenith event in Singapore and they had one A384 for sale, and the sales staff did not think the bracelet was in production. They also said it was not limited production but would only be in production for this year (2019) I was tempted to get it but held off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

carlhaluss said:


> Yeah, thanks for pointing out the Zenith/Movado relationship, as another member pointed out. I had no idea about that, and now I know the reason for that four point star on case back and crown. I was wondering my A384 Revival had the five point star.
> 
> And I had no idea about the El Primero being nicknamed 3019 PHC, so I am learning something new yet again thanks to you. I did find the great write-up from Monochrome, which further explains the movement and the Zenith/Movado relationship:
> https://monochrome-watches.com/the-...siting-one-of-the-most-iconic-movements-ever/
> ...


True, I guess it makes sense for the revival to stick with the five point star. One thing I should clarify (and will eventually do so with pictures) is that mine has the Zenith/Movado four point square star (similar to the one you posted above that is not from the European Watch Company) and not the original purely Zenith four "needle pointed" star (as illustrated in the photo from the European Watch Company). I presume that A38X models with the Zenith/Movado square logo crowns received these during a servicing at some point.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

Artking3 said:


> I do hope they are making the ladder bracelet. I was at the Zenith event in Singapore and they had one A384 for sale, and the sales staff did not think the bracelet was in production. They also said it was not limited production but would only be in production for this year (2019) I was tempted to get it but held off.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My AD could not really clarify about the production of this watch, other than to say it is not limited, or how long it would be produced. Fortunately for me, I was able to get it without wondering if I can order one later. With all the research and development going into that case, I wonder if they plan to use it at a later time also for another model or two? Will be interesting to see as time goes by.

Cheers,
Carl


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

WTSP said:


> True, I guess it makes sense for the revival to stick with the five point star. One thing I should clarify (and will eventually do so with pictures) is that mine has the Zenith/Movado four point square star (similar to the one you posted above that is not from the European Watch Company) and not the original purely Zenith four "needle pointed" star (as illustrated in the photo from the European Watch Company). I presume that A38X models with the Zenith/Movado square logo crowns received these during a servicing at some point.


I was wondering about that four point square star in the photo being there rather than the four point needle one.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

The association with Movado (and Mondia) started in 1969. The square logo came into use in 1972. It therefore seems logical to assume that the logo has nothing to do with Movado and rather more to do with the takeover by Zenith United Electric Corporation that year.

Hartmut Richter


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

Hartmut Richter said:


> The association with Movado (and Mondia) started in 1969. The square logo came into use in 1972. It therefore seems logical to assume that the logo has nothing to do with Movado and rather more to do with the takeover by Zenith United Electric Corporation that year.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Do you think it's possible that an A384 could originally have been released with that crown? Does anybody have evidence as to how many production runs there were and whether they were progressively released from 69 to the early 70s?

Edit: Partially answered my own question thanks to Joel Duval's site. Apparently the A384 was produced from 69 to 71 in a quantity of 2,600 units, presumably in multiple production runs. It still doesn't answer the question as to whether they changed the crown logo over that period though.

https://sites.google.com/site/zenithistoric/la-saga-du-el-primero/les-preiers-el-primero


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

No, the crown logo was only changed in 1972/73. All A384's with the post 1973 logo on the crown have service crowns IMHO. That includes my own A384, even though the first owner (from whom I bought it) claimed it had never been serviced (people tend to forget they had their watch serviced once long ago).



WTSP said:


> Do you think it's possible that an A384 could originally have been released with that crown? Does anybody have evidence as to how many production runs there were and whether they were progressively released from 69 to the early 70s?
> 
> Edit: Partially answered my own question thanks to Joel Duval's site. Apparently the A384 was produced from 69 to 71 in a quantity of 2,600 units, presumably in multiple production runs. It still doesn't answer the question as to whether they changed the crown logo over that period though.
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/zenithistoric/la-saga-du-el-primero/les-preiers-el-primero


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## babbsky (Feb 16, 2017)

carlhaluss said:


> Dropped by Time & Gold here in Vancouver today, to enquire about a steel bracelet for another watch. I never dreamed of walking out with a new Zenith on my wrist. We got talking about all watches, as we normally do, and when it came to Zenith, I was told they had received the new El Primero A384 Revival. To be honest, I was rather unenthusiastic - although I did really want to see the watch in real life - because I had almost given up on finding a cushion shape case in any make or model that I would find suitable. And I had briefly read reviews on the A384. However, I was still pouting about the 50th Anniversary A386 lack of availability both in number and in case material. I never thought I would even see one in real life. I have long been a fan of the Chronomaster El Primero Original 1969 38mm based on the A386, and thought the A386 Revival would be perfect. But I realized it was not to be.
> 
> Well, when I first saw the A384 today in it's case, I was blown away. I don't know where to start really. The Panda dial is a vivid white background - unlike most photos, which make it look greyish or off white, with pure black subdials that have white hands. And the true red chronograph hand with the rectangular tip, true to the original, just contrast beautifully. And the black tachymetre track around the outside of the dial, brings everything together perfectly. And the size!!! The case, at 37mm, does admittedly fit larger, but it is still not large. If that make sense. It looks absolutely stunning on the wrist - not just my wrist, but I am sure on any wrist - the proportions are absolutely perfect. Could they really have got it that right back in 1969?! I normally don't look at any watch I am trying on, in the mirror, but this one just looks so perfect. And the beautiful leather/crocodile leather strap with rubber lining suits it perfectly. Although, the vintage style ladder type steel bracelet I see in photos looks great as well. Anyway, even the tang buckle is period perfect.
> 
> ...


Another awesome one in your collection... I'm beginning to warm up to chronos - vintage or reissue and vintage or vintage reissue three handler as well. 
Wear it in good health... wish I bump into you in DT Vancouver and talk watches... I have a lot to learn from you. 
Cheers,
Giuseppe

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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

babbsky said:


> Another awesome one in your collection... I'm beginning to warm up to chronos - vintage or reissue and vintage or vintage reissue three handler as well.
> Wear it in good health... wish I bump into you in DT Vancouver and talk watches... I have a lot to learn from you.
> Cheers,
> Giuseppe
> ...


Thanks, Giuseppe! Well, I have a lot to learn as well. Since I got this watch, I have learned so much more about the Zenith history, thanks to guys on this forum. This watch was a complete surprise to me. I have tried on so many watches with square or cushion shape cases, and none of them seemed to work for me. But this one just fit my wrist perfectly. I loved it when I first saw it online, but was thinking it wouldn't be a good fit.

I did not really enjoy the chronograph very much, until my Omega Speedmaster and then the Zenith El Primero.

Good to hear from you again. Do you get downtown very much? I am retired, so I am downtown at least a few times a week. Mostly to visit my favorite watch boutiques and shops. I love most visiting Time & Gold, the Omega Boutique and Palladio. They all offer a wonderful experience to talk about all types of watches, and to try on various models. And a few of the people have become very good friends of mine. It is not easy to find people who have any interest in watches, and I am thankful for the few friends I have made in Vancouver who share my interest.

Let me know if you would like to get together for a coffee sometime and talk about watches, and maybe visit some shops. You can always send me a PM as well.

Cheers,
Carl


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## babbsky (Feb 16, 2017)

carlhaluss said:


> Thanks, Giuseppe! Well, I have a lot to learn as well. Since I got this watch, I have learned so much more about the Zenith history, thanks to guys on this forum. This watch was a complete surprise to me. I have tried on so many watches with square or cushion shape cases, and none of them seemed to work for me. But this one just fit my wrist perfectly. I loved it when I first saw it online, but was thinking it wouldn't be a good fit.
> 
> I did not really enjoy the chronograph very much, until my Omega Speedmaster and then the Zenith El Primero.
> 
> ...


Thanks. That would be great to do like a coffer and shop tour. Will let you know. 
Have a great weekend. 
Cheers!

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## jermyzy (Aug 19, 2007)

Nice pickup! I'm a huge fan of Zenith so always appreciate seeing new ones. Looks like there are a few Vancouver people here, we should have a get-together sometime ha!


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## vchau76 (May 26, 2011)

Beautiful watch and so unique. Wear in good health!

I have one on order and am super excited to get it in about a week. I was told by my AD that the steel ladder bracelet will only be sold separately at a cost of ~$750 and will be available later in the year. I was hoping there would be an option to choose the leather strap or steel bracelet, but this does not seem to be the case. 


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## vchau76 (May 26, 2011)

Btw, I am curious to know if you were able to get much of a discount off the watch since it is so new?


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## mikkolopez (Jul 20, 2006)

That is a very nice Zenith. Wear it in good health.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

vchau76 said:


> Beautiful watch and so unique. Wear in good health!
> 
> I have one on order and am super excited to get it in about a week. I was told by my AD that the steel ladder bracelet will only be sold separately at a cost of ~$750 and will be available later in the year. I was hoping there would be an option to choose the leather strap or steel bracelet, but this does not seem to be the case.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you! Sorry I didn't reply earlier. Well, I am excited for you! Since you posted 5 days ago, you must almost have it now. Really looking forward to your thoughts and possibly some pics as well. I thought the steel ladder bracelet would be an option as well, although I am not disappointed as I plan to keep it on the leather strap anyway. Maybe later on I will order one. It would kind of make a complete set.

Hope you receive your's sooner rather than later!

Cheers,
Carl


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

mikkolopez said:


> That is a very nice Zenith. Wear it in good health.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you. Definitely my nicest so far.

Cheers,
Carl


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## GmtMasterIII (Aug 5, 2018)

Beautiful. Love how true they were to the original design and especially the size. 

Zenith has been knocking it out of the park lately with their El Primero collection. 

Wear it in good health. Enjoy!


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

GmtMasterIII said:


> Beautiful. Love how true they were to the original design and especially the size.
> 
> Zenith has been knocking it out of the park lately with their El Primero collection.
> 
> ...


Thank you!

They did a wonderful job on this watch. When I first saw photos of it - before seeing it in real life - I was interested but not very excited. When I did see it in person, that did it for me!


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## laanguiano (Jun 7, 2012)

Question for the experts. I am looking into this watch for purchase, but as a first luxury watch I am concerned about buying new depreciation. I know if you buy a rolex new, its not going to drop much in price. It appears many brands once you buy it, the price is cut in half.

How does Zenith fare? and how would an anniversary model compare if I decided later I wanted to part with it?


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## GmtMasterIII (Aug 5, 2018)

laanguiano said:


> Question for the experts. I am looking into this watch for purchase, but as a first luxury watch I am concerned about buying new depreciation. I know if you buy a rolex new, its not going to drop much in price. It appears many brands once you buy it, the price is cut in half.
> 
> How does Zenith fare? and how would an anniversary model compare if I decided later I wanted to part with it?


That's kind of a tough question to answer. Are you buying the watch with the intention to resell later at some point or are you just wondering as sort of an "in case of emergency" type of thing?

A lot of this is going to depend on the market for watches. Right now, everything is at an all-time high. Especially Rolex. But even if you purchased a Submariner or GMT at retail today, there's no telling what you'd get back for it in say 3 years time. It was only a few years back that Hulks and BLNRs were selling pre-owned below retail.

The safest bet with Zenith will usually be the El Primero line as it's the most well-known piece in their collection. Same goes for Breitling with the Navitimer, Omega Speedmaster, etc.

This piece does seem to be rather hard to track down based on the comments in this thread. So that would work to help keep some of it's value. But again, its all relative based on the watch market.

Buy the watch you like the best and plan on keeping. Whether it's the Zenith, Rolex, Zodiac, Timex, whatever. You'll lose the least amount of sleep taking that approach.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

laanguiano said:


> Question for the experts. I am looking into this watch for purchase, but as a first luxury watch I am concerned about buying new depreciation. I know if you buy a rolex new, its not going to drop much in price. It appears many brands once you buy it, the price is cut in half.
> 
> How does Zenith fare? and how would an anniversary model compare if I decided later I wanted to part with it?


While I would not call myself an expert by any stretch of imagination, I love watches, and when I buy I hardly ever consider resale value. I have been flipping watches for more than 20 years. I would say, in general, my personal experience is that I have usually got between 55-65% on most of the regular models I have resold. When I say "regular", I mean models that are not Limited Edition or Special Edition, the A384 being a Special Edition. That excludes the more popular and hard-to-get models like my Rolex Submariner which I got this year and, after I found it wasn't the watch for me, sold it to a good friend for exactly what I paid for it, including taxes. I could have got more for it actually, if I hadn't sold it to my friend. But that's a unique situation.

If you get a model that is really not popular - like an Omega model I got a few years ago - I only got 50% back of what I paid. It is a model that is extremely difficult to resale, so I was lucky to sell it at all! Also, if you get a gold piece, they usually depreciate a lot more as well. Unless it's a super high end and popular model like the Rolex and Patek Philippe and others.

If you sell to another company who will give you quick cash, and then resell the watch again, you can expect about 50% of original price, unless again it's an unusual popular model. If you sell on eBay yourself, then remember they take 10% of your selling price, and PayPal takes another 5%.

From what I have heard, both from my AD and on the watch forums, is that this A384 model will not be produced beyond the end of this year. It does state on the case back "1969-2019" and "50th Anniversary Special Edition". Consensus of opinion is that it is a Special Edition and, while not limited to a specific number, will not be produced for a long time. I guess we really won't know until the end of this year.

This appears to be a highly sought after model, and justifiably so. Hard to say what resale value will be, but I would say certainly higher than a regular Zenith model which, in my experience is pretty much as I already stated. I am currently selling a model I bought, which was discontinued in 2016, and will end up getting exactly 60% of original MSRP. On the other hand, I got a really good discount, so I will get about 65% of what I paid including tax. That is not bad.

Personally, I think the value of this model is excellent, even for the full MSRP. In all honesty, Zenith is - again in my opinion - an excellent brand that doesn't often get the recognition it deserves, and is therefore not a good resale brand. I'm just not really sure about this particular model. It is one watch, however, I have no intention of reselling, although I have said that before! Hope all this doesn't confuse you even more! All I can say is that anyone who can get their hands on one of these is a lucky guy indeed! Again, these are just my personal experiences, and I buy all my watches from an Authorized Dealer, or a brand Boutique, like Panerai or Omega. We all have our methods and sources of purchasing, including from grey market dealers. In which case your resale will be better, or if you are lucky enough to get a pre-owned model, then the depreciation is already paid. Even more confusing!

Good luck with your decision! Hope all this helps rather than confuses! :-s I should also add, that I believe the investment is the pleasure you get out of the watch. It's a luxury item, and meant to be enjoyed without worry.

Cheers,
Carl


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## vchau76 (May 26, 2011)

I also just recently purchased this watch and my decision was based solely on the fact that it was such a unique watch that I was going to own for a long time. I have never owned a Zenith and this was my first model. With that being said, I generally buy watches that are either limited production or generally more desirable only because my taste tend to lean that way. I can say with confidence that this watch is one of my favorite in the rotation. 


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

vchau76 said:


> I also just recently purchased this watch and my decision was based solely on the fact that it was such a unique watch that I was going to own for a long time. I have never owned a Zenith and this was my first model. With that being said, I generally buy watches that are either limited production or generally more desirable only because my taste tend to lean that way. I can say with confidence that this watch is one of my favorite in the rotation.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, I have flipped a lot of watches over the years. But when I saw this one, I knew it is one I will keep! Also one of my favorite.

Cheers,
Carl


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

carlhaluss said:


> While I would not call myself an expert by any stretch of imagination, I love watches, and when I buy I hardly ever consider resale value. I have been flipping watches for more than 20 years. I would say, in general, my personal experience is that I have usually got between 55-65% on most of the regular models I have resold. When I say "regular", I mean models that are not Limited Edition or Special Edition, the A384 being a Special Edition. That excludes the more popular and hard-to-get models like my Rolex Submariner which I got this year and, after I found it wasn't the watch for me, sold it to a good friend for exactly what I paid for it, including taxes. I could have got more for it actually, if I hadn't sold it to my friend. But that's a unique situation.
> 
> If you get a model that is really not popular - like an Omega model I got a few years ago - I only got 50% back of what I paid. It is a model that is extremely difficult to resale, so I was lucky to sell it at all! Also, if you get a gold piece, they usually depreciate a lot more as well. Unless it's a super high end and popular model like the Rolex and Patek Philippe and others.
> 
> ...


I think your commentary concerning resale valuations is right on point. My personal observation is that a used watch usually sells for about 40 to 60% of the price at which it could be purchased new. The range depends on how popular the model was and availability. Most Rolex, Patek Philippe Nautilus and other hot watches are subject to mass hysteria phenomena and this rule does not apply. However, to the majority of "normal" watches this model tends to be accurate.

Zeniths tend to sell with a 10 to 30% discount new, similar to IWC, JLC, and Omega. They usually can be resold according to the rule above. I think the A384 reissue will be at the top of these ranges (low discounts), maybe even going in a slightly Rolex direction given that it is fairly priced to start with, is likely to be popular and made in comparatively limited quantities.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

WTSP said:


> I think your commentary concerning resale valuations is right on point. My personal observation is that a used watch usually sells for about 40 to 60% of the price at which it could be purchased new. The range depends on how popular the model was and availability. Most Rolex, Patek Philippe Nautilus and other hot watches are subject to mass hysteria phenomena and this rule does not apply. However, to the majority of "normal" watches this model tends to be accurate.
> 
> Zeniths tend to sell with a 10 to 30% discount new, similar to IWC, JLC, and Omega. They usually can be resold according to the rule above. I think the A384 reissue will be at the top of these ranges (low discounts), maybe even going in a slightly Rolex direction given that it is fairly priced to start with, is likely to be popular and made in comparatively limited quantities.


You make a good point about the discount. Sometimes, at say 20%, you can actually do a bit better on resale, as the tax has been covered plus more on the discount. And, of course, the hysteria phenomena brought about by some watches that you mention. I consider myself very fortunate that none of these watches are really models that I feel unable to live without! Matter of fact, in many cases, such as a few of the Rolex models and Patek Nautilus, I have found watches that, in the long run. I really like a lot better! My Zenith A384, for example, is a watch that I simply - for my tastes - could be bettered by any brand regardless of price.

Cheers,
Carl


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## MDSWATCH (Aug 5, 2015)

carlhaluss said:


> You make a good point about the discount. Sometimes, at say 20%, you can actually do a bit better on resale, as the tax has been covered plus more on the discount. And, of course, the hysteria phenomena brought about by some watches that you mention. I consider myself very fortunate that none of these watches are really models that I feel unable to live without! Matter of fact, in many cases, such as a few of the Rolex models and Patek Nautilus, I have found watches that, in the long run. I really like a lot better! My Zenith A384, for example, is a watch that I simply - for my tastes - could be bettered by any brand regardless of price.
> 
> Cheers,
> Carl


When it comes to resale values, do you not think time plays a bit of a factor? I get the impression you have bought a lot of watches and sold them fairly quickly.

But obviously new watch prices are going up year on year.
This surely has a knock on effect with second hand prices.
Maybe if you had hung onto your watches for say five years, do you think the hit would be as big?

I am quite taken by the A384 and I am also considering making a purchase.
Like laanguiano, I am a little concerned about depreciation.
Not so much in the short term, but certainly in the long term.

I wouldn't expect to buy it next week, then sell it a year later without taking a hit.
But it would be nice to think that in say ten years time, general watch prices have increased and the resale value is a little closer to what I paid initially.
Especially if it is a special edition.

Do you think that is a little bit unrealistic?

I notice Carl that you have an Omega Spacemaster as your avatar. Is that the Omega you were lucky to sell?
The Omega Flightmaster is a watch that has always took my fancy. 
But it's probably too big for me and I'd never take a chance on vintage watch.

Both the Spacemaster and the Flightmaster have the same sundial case machining which appeals to me on the A384.

Another watch I admire, but couldn't carry off, is the Rado Original. The big chunk of metal surrounding the dial just looks a bit different.

The style of the A384 case, seems to refine all the features I like on the Spacemaster, Flightmaster and the Original.

MDSWATCH


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

MDSWATCH said:


> When it comes to resale values, do you not think time plays a bit of a factor? I get the impression you have bought a lot of watches and sold them fairly quickly.
> 
> But obviously new watch prices are going up year on year.
> This surely has a knock on effect with second hand prices.
> ...


Well, I certainly had my fun over the past 20+ years. Some of my watches, I didn't even keep for a year. For me, that is/was part of my hobby. At times it seems like the main reason for buying the watches was to review them and see how they appeal to me after a fairly short time or, hopefully a long time. The flipping, and then the buying was especially fun, and I am fortunate that I was able to do it. I say "was" because I am now retired and just don't have the same disposable income. Luckily, I have come across a few watches in my collection that I feel (at least for the time being) that I don't want to part with. It seems that, for the first time in a long time, I must start being practical!

Yes, often the longer you keep a watch, the less you will lose on resale. But I think we are talking a fairly long time, at least a decade as you suggest. I don't think even 5 years would make a big difference. For me, the loss thing is OK, as I accept it as part of my hobby. For almost 15 years, I have not owned a car, so that gave me a lot more available funds for watches. Of course, I probably lost more on selling watches than I ever would have by selling all my cars in my lifetime :-d. But I'm OK with this. I was never a very practical individual anyway, so this behavior goes right along with my personality.

The Spacemaster was really a fun watch. I was lucky to sell it at all, even at about 50% of it's original value. The friend I sold it to eventually resold it as well and, of course, because I took the original hit, he got back about what I paid for it. I still like the watch, and admire it when I visit the Boutique. Like a lot of watches I owned, I still admire them, but just found ones I like better and am fortunate enough to be able to obtain! The cases on the Spacemaster and Flighmaster are great, and although large watches, seem to fit my wrist well. I never thought, looking at just the photos of the A384, that it would fit my wrist, though. But I love the size, and the fact it is so compact with the El Primero movement.

Some of the RADO original are great looking watches. Never tried them, but I imagine if I could pull off the Spacemaster, they should be OK as well. My wrist is 7.25in, so I have been lucky to own a varied group of watches, of most sizes. From the 34mm Rolex OP to Panerai 47mm Luminor.

Thanks for your great post and all the comments! Really enjoyed reading, and responding to them. I certainly make no apologies for the way I enjoy this hobby, and I'm not into criticizing others as to how they spend their money, where/how they buy their watches, or how they enjoy the hobby. Great to read your post, with your comments and questions, and enjoy that you are not being critical or judgmental! That is what having a hobby like this is all about.

Cheers,
Carl


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## fskywalker (Jul 14, 2014)

Congrats


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

fskywalker said:


> Congrats
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thank you! It is one watch which will enable me to reduce the size of my collection. This watch will get a lot more wear than many of my others.

Cheers,
Carl


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## dberg (Jan 7, 2014)

Carl -- I happen to like a lot of the watches that you have owned . . . from this A384, to the Defy to the Explorer 1 to (I think) a Bremont S301. I'm curious if you ever bought the bracelet for the A384 and what is in your collection now.


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## fransiscus (Aug 29, 2016)

Beautiful Piece Carl!! really nice choice!!!


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

dberg said:


> Carl -- I happen to like a lot of the watches that you have owned . . . from this A384, to the Defy to the Explorer 1 to (I think) a Bremont S301. I'm curious if you ever bought the bracelet for the A384 and what is in your collection now.


Thanks. Actually, I sold the 384 and now have the 385. They are identical except for the dial. I found out that since I have the 385 dial, the watch is getting worn a lot more. The 384 went to a good home, so no seller's remorse. If I could have afforded both, I would have kept both. i am also seriously considering getting the Gay Freres bracelet. Not as costly as I thought.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

fransiscus said:


> Beautiful Piece Carl!! really nice choice!!!


Thank you. It is a beautiful watch. As time went by, I found it got less wrist time. When the A385 was introduced, I knew why. The dial on the A385 is, for me, infinitely more versatile. So the A384 sold to a friend, and it has a good home. Now I am proud owner of the A385. It doesn't make the A384 any less beautiful, just a different dial choice!


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## dberg (Jan 7, 2014)

Carl, is the Exp. 1 still in the mix? What about any of the Bremonts or other Zenith watches? I have the Exp. 1 in 39 and I am thinking seriously about getting the Doxa Sub 300 Carbon. Just think that the two would make a great pair, along with a dress watch. I do have a JDM Seiko Solar Tuna, but I think the Doxa would replace that. Carl, let us know. Thanks.


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## drunken-gmt-master (Mar 29, 2018)

carlhaluss said:


> Thanks. Actually, I sold the 384 and now have the 385. They are identical except for the dial. I found out that since I have the 385 dial, the watch is getting worn a lot more. The 384 went to a good home, so no seller's remorse. If I could have afforded both, I would have kept both. i am also seriously considering getting the Gay Freres bracelet. Not as costly as I thought.
> . . .


A beautiful alternative to the A384. I recently picked up a used A384 Revival (its stark black & white color scheme is more versatile for my purposes). The GF-style ladder bracelet seems very true to a vintage product (I've never handled an original A384 on its bracelet, but have other '60s-70s watches w/their original bracelets) so the price point is appropriate; the clasp is stamped & the hollow end-pieces are wiggly, but the bracelet is lightweight (always a plus for me) & very comfortable.


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## carlhaluss (Oct 27, 2007)

drunken-gmt-master said:


> A beautiful alternative to the A384. I recently picked up a used A384 Revival (its stark black & white color scheme is more versatile for my purposes). The GF-style ladder bracelet seems very true to a vintage product (I've never handled an original A384 on its bracelet, but have other '60s-70s watches w/their original bracelets) so the price point is appropriate; the clasp is stamped & the hollow end-pieces are wiggly, but the bracelet is lightweight (always a plus for me) & very comfortable.


I have taken a good look at the GF bracelet at my AD. They have an A384 with the bracelet. It is not nearly as costly as I imagined about $500cad max. I have a few other expenses now, but I think I will order it eventually, as my A385 is definitely a keeper!


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## swsc (Jan 8, 2014)

I really love the new vintage Zenith styling. They look very comfortable on the wrist too!


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