# No Discounts on GS?



## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

I was told today by a reputable AD that GS will no longer allow discounting. I was told this is a new “policy” designed to go upmarket. I have heard such nonsense before but it’s never true. In any event, has anyone else heard this? Given the very poor resale value GS holds (classifieds are flooded with them) I find this hard to believe. In any event, if this is true and when combined with the recent price hikes (4500 9Fs) I guess this brand is no longer in my league.


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## JLittle (Nov 7, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> I was told today by a reputable AD that GS will no longer allow discounting. I was told this is a new “policy” designed to go upmarket. I have heard such nonsense before but it’s never true. In any event, has anyone else heard this? Given the very poor resale value GS holds (classifieds are flooded with them) I find this hard to believe. In any event, if this is true and when combined with the recent price hikes (4500 9Fs) I guess this brand is no longer in my league.


I heard that when I bought my snowflake months ago.


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## jkpa (Feb 8, 2014)

Yeah, I’ve seen it several times and been told by a few ADs as well but I think it’s still possible to find deals.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

jkpa said:


> Yeah, I’ve seen it several times and been told by a few ADs as well but I think it’s still possible to find deals.


Well I hope that works out for them. Prices are out of control. Not everyone can be Rolex.


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## Scblacksunshine! (Jul 25, 2021)

Just buy from a dealer from Japan, plenty of discount there


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## egwatchfan (Dec 9, 2015)

I have heard this but I also am skeptical. I have gotten great deals from ADs although I haven’t bought a new Gs in say two years or so…. So I guess it’s possible things have changed. But I’m still skeptical.


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## dawalsh13 (Mar 29, 2017)

New WOS in my town said the same thing.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Good morning,

Whether a dealer gives discount or not is basically up to the dealer.
Should the manufacturer exert a recognizable influence here, he may be subject to sanctions.
Of course, the dealer would face a similar threat if the manufacturer were to learn that the dealer is granting unwanted discounts.
In the case of Rolex, it is said that the dealer loses his concession if he gives discounts. Furthermore, according to Rolex, the dealer should be free to choose the customers who receive such a watch. But there are also reports where Rolex intervenes in the sales process, so to speak. For example, through so-called "blacklists" where the buyer was discovered by selling too often from private😉.
I think, since I have not seen corresponding documents so far unfortunately, they are all rumors.
If the dealer would confirm such a procedure to me, I would delete the respective manufacturer from my list, unconditionally.


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## greedy (Dec 19, 2017)

Not my perception in a couple ads in Europe


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## osmin (Jun 9, 2012)

Heard the same from a German AD two weeks ago. I was completely shocked. In 2014 I bought the snowflake with 30% off. Can’t really imagine paying full price


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

osmin said:


> Heard the same from a German AD two weeks ago. I was completely shocked. In 2014 I bought the snowflake with 30% off. Can’t really imagine paying full price


Ridiculous. It’s not going to work. You can’t jack up prices and stop discounts at the same time. Omega is trying to do this right now as well. The watch market is out of whack. I’ve been burned on GS too many times on resale to ever pay full price.


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## JLittle (Nov 7, 2020)

egwatchfan said:


> I have heard this but I also am skeptical. I have gotten great deals from ADs although I haven’t bought a new Gs in say two years or so…. So I guess it’s possible things have changed. But I’m still skeptical.


When I was looking to purchase my snowflake, I had two dealers tell me the same thing. Then it was repeated by a third a month later when I was looking for another GS. All three of them said they were told by GS not to offer discounts. Now the place I bought mine from went around that by giving me full MSRP for a watch I didn't want anymore and that wasn't worth anywhere near MSRP on used market. So that's how he was able to give me a discount and still not violate GS guidelines.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

JLittle said:


> When I was looking to purchase my snowflake, I had two dealers tell me the same thing. Then it was repeated by a third a month later when I was looking for another GS. All three of them said they were told by GS not to offer discounts. Now the place I bought mine from went around that by giving me full MSRP for a watch I didn't want anymore and that wasn't worth anywhere near MSRP on used market. So that's how he was able to give me a discount and still not violate GS guidelines. I also got the speech that that are flying off the shelves at full msrp which I call BS on.


Yeah that’s what the AD said to me and same idea on the trade but then they proceed to offer me 50 percent of msrp on my unworn SGBN021 in trade. Hard pass.


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## Mr.Jones82 (Jul 15, 2018)

Tpp3975 said:


> Ridiculous. It’s not going to work. You can’t jack up prices and stop discounts at the same time. Omega is trying to do this right now as well. The watch market is out of whack. I’ve been burned on GS too many times on resale to ever pay full price.


It sucks, but that is obviously not the case. The watch market is thriving and they don't need to offer discounts. If they did, they would. To be clear, I am not paying full retail either. I agree with you there. Other than one, all of my GSs have been purchased pre-owned.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Tpp3975 said:


> The watch market is out of *whack*. I’ve been burned on GS *too many times* on resale to ever pay full price.


The market is out of whack, because to many people sell their watches over and over again - instead of actually keep the watches.

You wouldn't be burned if a) you keep your watches and b) If GS is sold without discounts, the price on the second hand market will rise.


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## izecius (Jun 4, 2015)

GS going far too quickly with this policy, no patience. They are nowhere near that level, especially in Europe.


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## Cowboy Bebop (Jan 9, 2011)

At best they might offer to pay the taxes (depending on the dealer) but no discounts on the retail of the watch.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Yes, there seems to be a turnaround in the watch market.
It's one thing if the dealer doesn't want to give a discount anymore, or is allowed to give one. At least for me.
Surely we agree that watches, even from GS are pure luxury. 
Either you can/will allow yourself this luxury, or not.
Instead of getting upset about the gray market dealers, who in my opinion nobody needs anyway and who try to earn a golden nose, even a golden castle, with watches from Rolex, AP, PP and VC.
Or to get upset about influencers who in my eyes set their sails depending on the wind, as well as dealers who push one or the other brand online, because you earn even more money with it.
Strange for me.
If you get 30% at the retailer, what are you happy about? Certainly not about the watch, but about the possibility of selling the watch again at a profit.
A nice double moral.
Also funny the discussions about discounts, who, in what amount at what dealer got.
One should be aware that the people who have a larger fortune to be able to buy luxury watches, among other things, are becoming more and more (India & China).
Consequently, the demand for luxury products increases and since we do not live on an island, the products are sold where the demand is great and the will to buy without discount is unrestrained.
So it is simple. Buy when money is left😉


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Loevhagen said:


> The market is out of whack, because to many people sell their watches over and over again - instead of actually keep the watches.
> 
> You wouldn't be burned if a) you keep your watches and b) If GS is sold without discounts, the price on the second hand market will rise.


It won’t rise. Trust me. I am active here and on Reddit. GS resale value is garbage except for the LEs. As for lecturing on keeping my watches, I don’t see how that’s relevant to this discussion. Many of us here enjoy swapping watches frequently. I don’t mind losing a few bucks here and there but there are limits. I do not believe GS new pricing strategy will work for them. They want 4500 USD for a quartz watch! People won’t buy them and the discounts will be back.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

isn’t the better answer that if we all refuse to pay msrp, eventually prices will fall or discounts will return? Paying msrp for a watch is as foolish as paying msrp for a car.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

“No discounts on GS” seems to be somewhat of a recurring theme. In the UK it depends who you ask - some will and some won’t. It’s your duty to ask anyway but don’t be too surprised if you get a “no” in reply.


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## egwatchfan (Dec 9, 2015)

Tpp3975 said:


> isn’t the better answer that if we all refuse to pay msrp, eventually prices will fall or discounts will return? Paying msrp for a watch is as foolish as paying msrp for a car.


yes exactly. But sadly us in this forum represent a minuscule proportion of those buying GS. For this strategy to work, EVERYONE would have to follow. Good luck with that I’m afraid.


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## Maviarab (Aug 3, 2021)

Why would you expect a discount anyway? Whya re watches any different to your new TV, microwave or your new suit?

Pay the price or getting pre-owned and save a bundle. As for thousands flooded on used market, one could use that logic for pretty much any watch brand.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

egwatchfan said:


> yes exactly. But sadly us in this forum represent a minuscule proportion of those buying GS. For this strategy to work, EVERYONE would have to follow. Good luck with that I’m afraid.


I guess. I don’t “need” a grand seiko. I’ll wait for my price. If I don’t get it, someone else will get my money. They aren’t made of pixie dust and fairies. They aren’t “special”. Plenty of brands are just as nice. Someone will get my dollars.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Maviarab said:


> Why would you expect a discount anyway? Whya re watches any different to your new TV, microwave or your new suit?
> 
> Pay the price or getting pre-owned and save a bundle. As for thousands flooded on used market, one could use that logic for pretty much any watch brand.


Mark ups in TVs or microwaves aren’t 50 percent. And I get discounts on my suits. It’s all about value to me. And I don’t value a GS at MSRP. It’s just a suggested price. The better question is Why wouldn’t I expect a discount? I’ve never paid full price for a watch and never will. Discounts are the norm. Everyone expects them.


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## MX793 (Dec 7, 2017)

Tpp3975 said:


> It won’t rise. Trust me. I am active here and on Reddit. GS resale value is garbage except for the LEs. As for lecturing on keeping my watches, I don’t see how that’s relevant to this discussion. Many of us here enjoy swapping watches frequently. I don’t mind losing a few bucks here and there but there are limits. I do not believe GS new pricing strategy will work for them. They want 4500 USD for a quartz watch! People won’t buy them and the discounts will be back.


GS resale is garbage because the supply of second-hand GS watches far exceeds demand. If GS weren't the darling of people who catch and release watches as a hobby, the supply of second-hand GS watches would be smaller and that should increase resale.


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## MickCollins1916 (Aug 6, 2009)

Tpp3975 said:


> isn’t the better answer that if we all refuse to pay msrp, eventually prices will fall or discounts will return? Paying msrp for a watch is as foolish as paying msrp for a car.


No argument with the principle…but have you tried buying a car lately? Yikes. 

With that outlook, I’d focus on buying a sturdy pair of shoes, because you’d be walking. 

I’ve paid MSRP or close to it for certain GS models, because I value their watchmaking and mostly do not care about the secondary market value. I buy to wear…tho sometimes I don’t bond with a watch and move it on to cut losses. 

I have one listed I haven’t been wearing that I’m going to take a bit of a bath on if I end up selling it - this is a hobby, not an investment. 

I used to be a Rolex/Tudor-only guy. I like all of the ones I have, but I agree with your basic principle that the value proposition stemming from supply/demand/availability/shortages/whatever one’s view is in the current market for Wilsdorf brands doesn’t work for me, so I’m not seeking to pick up any more. 

The value of a thing is what someone is willing to pay for it. GS seems to be moving upmarket and discounts seem to be drying up, as they are on Omega, or some other brands, based on anecdotal evidence, etc. Plenty of fish in the sea - if the GS value proposition doesn’t compute for you for whatever reason, move on.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

MX793 said:


> GS resale is garbage because the supply of second-hand GS watches far exceeds demand. If GS weren't the darling of people who catch and release watches as a hobby, the supply of second-hand GS watches would be smaller and that should increase resale.


It won’t be anyones darling if discounts aren’t available and people don’t pay their asking price. Something has to give. Omega has tried this for years with no success. At the end of the day they have to sell watches and the discounts return. The ADs will be forced to dump to the greys as they can’t sit on inventory forever. Take a stand people! Lol.


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## DonJ53 (Mar 1, 2017)

As a Brit it's our right to barter for anything. OK you might not get much off but every little helps.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

Never heard of much, if any, discounts for these watches, so if you do find one, good for you!


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## Wilfried84 (May 19, 2020)

Tangential but relevant, I think the video below interesting. Thesis: discounts and grey market availability across many brands have dried up. Brands had lost control of their production and distribution, resulting in discounting and the grey market. They didn't like it, but change would be difficult and expensive. The pandemic gave them the opportunity to make structural changes and retake control, and the result, fewer discounted watches, and the world is not going back to pre-pandemic ways. I'm no expert, but what he says rings true. The dearth of discounts isn't just Grand Seiko.

And as for Grand Seiko, they've done a big marketing push in the United States over the last few years, and I think they've largely succeeded. They get lots of buzz in the media, social and otherwise, almost all positive. They've gone from under the radar niche to very much part of the luxury watch conversation. No one says "just a Seiko" anymore. I tried to find data about sales or market share, I didn't find much, but this tidbit seems to show they're on the rise. I tried find data on sales or market share; did find much, but this tidbit seems to indicate they're going up.



> This year Grand Seiko has secured its place in the top 10 brands across all men’s price bands above $2,000.
> According to retail analyst NPD, its watches are now ranked number three in the $5,000 to $7,000 price range, up from number six last year. For watches priced above $30,000, NPD records it as America’s eighth largest brand, up from 21st last year.
> 
> 
> ...


I don't like higher prices either, but I think Grand Seiko is doing what it set out to do, it's growing, and marching up the ranks in terms of price and prestige, so if you want a Grand Seiko, get used to higher prices.


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## acebruin (Sep 14, 2021)

It's simple economics really. Supply and demand. If enough people aren't buying without discounts and supply increases, guess what they'll give discounts... If people are buying without discounts, guess what no more discounts... There are just too much money going around these days. People are still buying without discounts. GS brand awareness is increasing. I'm pretty new to GS. Not even 4 months in and I've bought a few pieces already at MSRP. I probably encouraged them to keep the no discount policy. Lol


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

It looks like loads of traders are now out of themarket for GS, as tasty margins are now in jeopardy. I'm sure GS isn't too bothered.


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## mchou8 (Jun 12, 2011)

I had the same experience at my AD. They said they implemented a new policy that gave salespeople less room for discounts. So I went with another AD a little farther and they offered me 15% off on my GS.


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## 14060 (Nov 27, 2010)

My best offer was a discount equal to the sales tax if I paid by wire.


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## up1911fan (Jan 5, 2016)

I got 7% and free shipping from an out of state AD a couple months ago.


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## Josh R. (Dec 30, 2012)

As a long-time collector, and out of principle, if a brand or AD isn't willing to discount, I'll simply move on to a different watch or brand. There are a lot of pieces I like and a lot of designs that overlap, and I'm usually able to buy at a reasonable discount from somewhere reputable. My goal has always been to have a balanced collection, which I'm fortunate to have. It just so happens that my entire collection has come about through pieces I've bought at a discounted MSRP. That might create faux offense in some active posters here. I simply buy what I like at a price I'm comfortable with, and usually keep what I buy for years without consideration for investment or future-value speculation. 

My sole GS is an SBGV225, which I bought new at a 25% discount in 2019. I like HAQ, and honestly don't see much difference between a GS quartz and a Citizen Chronomaster (especially the titanium models). 

Whenever I read about the perpetually rising MSRP's, it reminds me that I'm glad to have done most of my initial purchasing between 2000 and 2010, where I was able to pick up 3 JLC Masters for $2K. 

The rising MSRP's also pushes me toward brands like Guinand, Sinn, Tutima, Tudor, Oris, Frederique Constant, Stowa, Union Glashutte, and Nomos (among others). They might not have the dial finishing and shiny indices of a GS, but I'm not always looking for that. Any Lange 1815 is A-OK without shiny indices.

My point in mentioning the Lange 1815 was to emphasize that it doesn't have shiny, jewelry-like, light-reflecting indices, and is yet aesthetically likeable and high quality. Shiny isn't for everyone.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Josh R. said:


> As a long-time collector, and out of principle, if a brand or AD isn't willing to discount, I'll simply move on to a different watch or brand. There are a lot of pieces I like, and I'm usually able to buy at a reasonable discount from somewhere reputable. My goal has always been to have a balanced collection, which I'm fortunate to have.
> 
> My sole GS is an SBGV225, which I bought new at a 25% discount in 2019. I like HAQ, and honestly don't see much difference between a GS quartz and a Citizen Chronomaster (especially the titanium models).
> 
> ...


I agree that it is a matter of principle. I am a lawyer. Clients ask for discounts all the time. And we give them to them all the time. If we stopped giving discounts, I will stop having clients. If GS thinks they can raise prices and tell their ADs to stop discounting it will catch up to them. Might work in this screwy Covid economy but it won’t last. I found my watch at my price btw. Just took a little effort.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Didn’t get a discount on my GS earlier this year but that’s because it’s pretty desired and hard to come by (cherry blossom).


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Josh R. said:


> The rising MSRP's also pushes me toward brands like Guinand, Sinn, Tutima, Tudor, Oris, Frederique Constant, Stowa, Union Glashutte, and Nomos (among others). They might not have the dial finishing and shiny indices of a GS, but I'm not always looking for that. Any Lange 1815 is A-OK without shiny indices.


I hope, don‘t think that you want to compare A.Lange with the other mentioned brands, don‘t you?


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Josh R. said:


> As a long-time collector, and out of principle, if a brand or AD isn't willing to discount, I'll simply move on to a different watch or brand. There are a lot of pieces I like, and I'm usually able to buy at a reasonable discount from somewhere reputable. My goal has always been to have a balanced collection, which I'm fortunate to have.


Is the goal to have a "balanced collection" or brands that discount? It sounds like the latter!

In any event, passing on GS and never buying one again is absolutely what you need to do. Then don't give the brand a second thought from now on, so you can focus your time and effort on other brands that give you nice discounts. For example, a lot of WIS (watch investors/speculators) are interested in Zenith because you could typically get them with tasty discounts - not because they're interested in the watch. They would wander into f27, bark about not being able to get a discount, and then wander out again when they didnt get enough sympathy. It meant the rest of the forum could talk about Zeniths, rather than margins.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Tpp3975 said:


> I agree that it is a matter of principle. I am a lawyer. Clients ask for discounts all the time. And we give them to them all the time. If we stopped giving discounts, I will stop having clients. If GS thinks they can raise prices and tell their ADs to stop discounting it will catch up to them. Might work in this screwy Covid economy but it won’t last. I found my watch at my price btw. Just took a little effort.


Look at it this way. Seiko owes it to its shareholders to make money whilst it can. Right now, the professional classes (that's you) are richer than ever, and buying more luxury product than ever; the world's wealth just lurched in your direction a little further, as it will during the next boom, and then again in the next bust. Seiko _cannot _leave that much money sloshing around on the table. You can't even buy a Rolex, much less get a discount on one; Omega is resisting discounts, and so are the likes of JLC and Zenith, so GS must follow suit.

For GS to keep offering you nice discounts because personally you think they should give you one in the same way you give your clients discounts, is not how it works. If you won't buy at the price, you're out of the market - it's that simple. But as you say, it turns out you _can _get the watch you want, with some ringing around (assuming it didn't take so long to ring around that you start losing billable hours!).


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> Look at it this way. Seiko owes it to its shareholders to make money whilst it can. Right now, the professional classes (that's you) are richer than ever, and buying more luxury product than ever; the world's wealth just lurched in your direction a little further, as it will during the next boom, and then again in the next bust. Seiko _cannot _leave that much money sloshing around on the table. You can't even buy a Rolex, much less get a discount on one; Omega is resisting discounts, and so are the likes of JLC and Zenith, so GS must follow suit.
> 
> For GS to keep offering you nice discounts because personally you think they should give you one in the same way you give your clients discounts, is not how it works. If you won't buy at the price, you're out of the market - it's that simple. But as you say, it turns out you _can _get the watch you want, with some ringing around (assuming it didn't take so long to ring around that you start losing billable hours!).


Great post. No billables lost.


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## ts298 (May 11, 2021)

I got a big (25%) discount in 2019 on a GS ordered from Japan. This year I paid full price for two, and the AD (in the US) specifically said that GS forbids discounts.

The watch market is white hot (for example, Lange now makes you make an appointment to visit its boutique, and requires you to file an application to buy some of its pieces; not too long ago these were selling for 25% off). GS has gotten very popular and is fairly trying to move its pricing and image upmarket in the current environment.

Whether or not GS’ strategy will survive the burst of the watch bubble is unclear, but the strategy makes perfect sense. I think these watches are still a good deal at MSRP.

Unless you’re buying Rolex or PP, you should assume your watch will lose significant value, imo. Buy the watch you’d still love if its value went to 0.


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

More the reason to buy used from Japan, the good dealers on c24 offer pieces that are basically new for around half of MSRP. If you’re in the US, import tax is minimal compared to rest of world. Only downside is you may not find the latest LE models.


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## JNW1 (May 12, 2021)

[QUOTE="Tpp3975, post: 54371766, member: 1493636" Paying msrp for a watch is as foolish as paying msrp for a car.
[/QUOTE]

You obviously haven’t been watching the automotive market lately. There are virtually no new cars available on dealer lots in the US and everything the dealers get in is presold - at MSRP! Popular models in some markets go for above MSRP. All due to a shortage of computer chips. Wacky world we live in.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

JNW1 said:


> [QUOTE="Tpp3975, post: 54371766, member: 1493636" Paying msrp for a watch is as foolish as paying msrp for a car.


You obviously haven’t been watching the automotive market lately. There are virtually no new cars available on dealer lots in the US and everything the dealers get in is presold - at MSRP! Popular models in some markets go for above MSRP. All due to a shortage of computer chips. Wacky world we live in.
[/QUOTE]
Correct but there is an actual shortage of cars. There is no shortage on watches. And I’ll be sitting out the car market until the chip shortage is resolved.


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## Phass (Jul 23, 2017)

The Ad ******** , at least 10% -15 discount , if limited edition probably ,but you can always ask !! I will walk away if have no discount for gs , if rolex sport stainless steel I believe no's discount


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Phass said:


> The Ad ****** , at least 10% -15 discount , if limited edition probably ,but you can always ask !! I will walk away if have no discount for gs , if rolex sport stainless steel I believe no's discount


Good for you. Gotta have the discipline to walk away.


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## osmin (Jun 9, 2012)

I do not think GS is in the position to enforce this on the market. Very few brands can do it. AP, PP and such. And Rolex of course. But Grand Seiko? No way.
Look at Omega, They are trying to do this for years without success


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

[/QUOTE]


osmin said:


> I do not think GS is in the position to enforce this on the market. Very few brands can do it. AP, PP and such. And Rolex of course. But Grand Seiko? No way.
> Look at Omega, They are trying to do this for years without success


In that case, we shall eventually see a flood of GSs on the used market as ADs and boutiques, armed with dust-gathering unsold stock, eventually liquidate to the greys. Also I'd expect to see very few new "incomings" on this forum, and other social media.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

GSNewbie said:


> Good morning,
> 
> Whether a dealer gives discount or not is basically up to the dealer.
> Should the manufacturer exert a recognizable influence here, he may be subject to sanctions.
> ...


Yep, its up to the dealer.
I've been offered discounts on new rolexes (not in the last 24 months though). Its supply and demand - if they can't move it and have multiple models of it - its up for a discount.




MX793 said:


> GS resale is garbage because the supply of second-hand GS watches far exceeds demand. If GS weren't the darling of people who catch and release watches as a hobby, the supply of second-hand GS watches would be smaller and that should increase resale.


Rather depends, doesn't it? There are a lot of snowflakes out there, and you can easily buy a used one for 25% off of MSRP. More popular models - i.e. SBGA413 (spring) often sells near MSRP used (even though I can buy it cheaper new).



yellowfury said:


> Didn’t get a discount on my GS earlier this year but that’s because it’s pretty desired and hard to come by (cherry blossom).


I did.


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## Hydroconquest (Feb 8, 2014)

Scblacksunshine! said:


> Just buy from a dealer from Japan, plenty of discount there


We can buy many quality stuffs in Japan, not just watches. The stuffs targeted Jp domestic market have higher quality than the ones sold to the rest of the world


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## Kjian414 (Jun 9, 2019)

I heard from one of my friend's who's a SA at GS they say that discounts can still be had on the cheaper "unpopular" models.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Sure, even the boutiques sell the old carrots at a discount- is nothing new😉


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## Xaltotun (Apr 19, 2007)

Tpp3975 said:


> I was told today by a reputable AD that GS will no longer allow discounting. I was told this is a new “policy” designed to go upmarket. I have heard such nonsense before but it’s never true. In any event, has anyone else heard this?


I was told the same by every AD in Canada (half a dozen in the country).

High end, limited edition models, the AD's will not bulge (including all the AD that I communicated with). For other more common models, you might get a bit luckier. One AD (on the other side of the country) offered me 20% + no tax + free shipping. I bought these two 9F, within a six month interval. He made me promise to not reveal who they were, as Grand Seiko mothership keeps an eye on all the AD and audit sales. The AD straight told me that GS was "_copying the Rolex and Omega strategy_" of 'no discounts', because "_they feel they now belong in the same category as those two players_".











(sorry for the hair sweater) 😂


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Xaltotun said:


> I was told the same by every AD in Canada (half a dozen in the country).
> 
> ....told me that GS"_copying the Rolex and Omega strategy_" of 'no discounts', because "_they feel they now belong in the same category as those two players_".
> (sorry for the hair sweater) 😂


Sure about omega🧐🤔. I can buy with one exception (Omega Snoopy) all Omega's watches at a great discount.
The quality alone keeps me from doing so.😉


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Xaltotun said:


> I was told the same by every AD in Canada (half a dozen in the country).
> 
> High end, limited edition models, the AD's will not bulge (including all the AD that I communicated with). For other more common models, you might get a bit luckier. One AD (on the other side of the country) offered me 20% + no tax + free shipping. I bought these two 9F, within a six month interval. He made me promise to not reveal who they were, as Grand Seiko mothership keeps an eye on all the AD and audit sales. The AD straight told me that GS was "_copying the Rolex and Omega strategy_" of 'no discounts', because "_they feel they now belong in the same category as those two players_".


yeah, i hear all kinds of different things from ADs. Hard to tell if it is the salesman playing games or a more entrenched strategy (I've gotten discounts on limited edition models, but not as large as the standard ones).

Still, 20% off those two 9F models is a good deal!!!


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## YuG (Feb 13, 2021)

Xaltotun said:


> He made me promise to not reveal who they were....


As someone in Canada trying to track down a 9F GMT and getting told no discounts as well....pretty please?


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## galvinw (Jan 16, 2017)

YuG said:


> As someone in Canada trying to track down a 9F GMT and getting told no discounts as well....pretty please?


I bought a SBGN003 last November. Check your PMs!

Edit: Sorry, it appears I don't have PMing privileges yet. Let's just say I live in Toronto and my AD in the Avenue/Bloor area.


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## Xaltotun (Apr 19, 2007)

YuG said:


> As someone in Canada trying to track down a 9F GMT and getting told no discounts as well....pretty please?


I'll PM you!


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## Xaltotun (Apr 19, 2007)

chas58 said:


> yeah, i hear all kinds of different things from ADs. Hard to tell if it is the salesman playing games or a more entrenched strategy (I've gotten discounts on limited edition models, but not as large as the standard ones).
> 
> Still, 20% off those two 9F models is a good deal!!!


Well, I called *all* AD across 🇨🇦 and was told the same thing, so at least here up North it does seem to be what is imposed on AD and not games.


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## Xaltotun (Apr 19, 2007)

GSNewbie said:


> Sure about omega🧐🤔. I can buy with one exception (Omega Snoopy) all Omega's watches at a great discount.
> The quality alone keeps me from doing so.😉


Not in Canada, significative discounts have been unavailable for some time. Now you can maybe save 5% on a less desirable model, or get a strap at best? Foooooooooorget discounts on popular models i.e. PO, Aqua Terra, Speedmaster, Seamaster, etc.

Are you telling me it's different where you live? Lucky you if affirmative!


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Hi, 
Discounts are always, in my opinion, unless obtained through gray market dealers, an individual matter.
Since I do have quite a respectable collection of various watches, I am in the fortunate position of being able to buy my watches on good terms as well. Well, with the exception of Rolex. But this is due to the fact that the dealer who had sold my DJ41, due to lack of service, was removed from my list😉.
Since I would not put me anywhere on a list like a beggar, Rolex remains for the time being with me outside.
Omega with a larger discount to get is no problem, as I said, with the Snoopy it looks different. But that is rather "Omega policy".😎


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Xaltotun said:


> Well, I called *all* AD across 🇨🇦 and was told the same thing, so at least here up North it does seem to be what is imposed on AD and not games.


Agreed, I called a bunch of AD's and they all told me the same thing too. I find it easy to believe that they are toeing the line for internet sales. However when I spend 30 minutes at my AD seriously looking at watches in person the conversation is a lot different than when I do a cold call of someone far away. Just saying...


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

Currently, dealers, regardless of GS, certainly have problems with manufacturers in addition to the problem with gray dealers.
Among other things, I learned that a manufacturer from Switzerland refers to the large jewelry chains for a purchase if you do not want to buy directly online.
Buying from small retailers is not recommended....
I guess they are trying to push the smaller retailers out of the market in order to achieve higher prices in the long run.
With the Swiss manufacturers, I personally even suspect a concerted action - similar to the quartz crisis back then.
Just my opinion😉.
But it's certainly understandable that smaller jewelers don't want to sell at cost. And how Rolex approached the issue years ago, up to the completely absurd situation today, is surely clear to many.

I had said it before, one should be more relaxed about the matter of buying watches.
We are in the realm of luxury and you don't need it for life, health or even happiness.
If the dealer doesn't sell at the price I want and tells me stories, so what, either I swallow the pill and buy at the dealer price, or you just wait and see how the situation develops in the future.
In the worst case, you have accumulated so much money that you buy a Rolex from the gray dealer out of desperation and speculative instinct😬😂.


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## guppydriver (Sep 8, 2021)

Would any of you expect a discount on a SBGM221 at the moment? It's been around forever so I assume it's not a hot model. I don't have a GS or a dress watch in my collection, and I'm enamored with the GMT complication (I have three GMT's in other brands). It's really the only GS that I feel speaks to me, but I've never paid retail for a watch other than my BLNR and don't want to start now.


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

You can buy the model without any problems, either at the dealer, or gray (chrono24)
That should actually answer your question...


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## mrwatches (Jan 6, 2022)

US ADs are out of whack. Plus you have to pay sales tax on top of retail price

Resale value is also not good. My SBGJ 253 is a LE but I dont see any value increase from the used market.


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## JOHN J. (Nov 19, 2020)

Xaltotun said:


> I was told the same by every AD in Canada (half a dozen in the country).
> 
> High end, limited edition models, the AD's will not bulge (including all the AD that I communicated with). For other more common models, you might get a bit luckier. One AD (on the other side of the country) offered me 20% + no tax + free shipping. I bought these two 9F, within a six month interval. He made me promise to not reveal who they were, as Grand Seiko mothership keeps an eye on all the AD and audit sales. The AD straight told me that GS was "_copying the Rolex and Omega strategy_" of 'no discounts', because "_they feel they now belong in the same category as those two players_".
> 
> ...


Your GMT is fantastic. Hope I can find one at a discount.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

mrwatches said:


> US ADs are out of whack. Plus you have to pay sales tax on top of retail price
> 
> Resale value is also not good. My SBGJ 253 is a LE but I dont see any value increase from the used market.


Better not buy then? Finnancial peformance is the #1 KPI of overall portfolio suitability


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## Xaltotun (Apr 19, 2007)

JOHN J. said:


> Your GMT is fantastic. Hope I can find one at a discount.


Thank you for the kind words. 🙏

I think in the 🇺🇸 it might be easier to get a slight discount (tax off, for example) on a _quartz_ GS, as there are more AD (jus five or six in 🇨🇦 makes it much harder). But it is becoming increasingly hard to get discounts...


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## krayzie (Apr 21, 2007)

Xaltotun said:


> I was told the same by every AD in Canada (half a dozen in the country).
> 
> High end, limited edition models, the AD's will not bulge (including all the AD that I communicated with). For other more common models, you might get a bit luckier. One AD (on the other side of the country) offered me 20% + no tax + free shipping. I bought these two 9F, within a six month interval. He made me promise to not reveal who they were, as Grand Seiko mothership keeps an eye on all the AD and audit sales. The AD straight told me that GS was "_copying the Rolex and Omega strategy_" of 'no discounts', because "_they feel they now belong in the same category as those two players_".


Even back when you could only buy a GS from the Seiko Boutique in Toronto, they weren't allowed to give discounts at all.

I've heard of the no discount / waiting list game with the Rolex Sub, but Omega is new to me. Then again Omega has been raising prices pretty much non-stop for at least 10 years now.

Even before covid at the local mall I saw a lot more foot traffic with the Rolex dealer than Omega right across the hall (pretty much dead even with the fancy displays).


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

I can only tell you from my experience in Germany that even in the GS Boutique discounts are possible, single digits.
However, the situation is certainly different in the USA than in Germany.
In Germany, GS still leads a niche existence.
When I look at Chrono24, many offers are often from the U.S., without taking into account the sales tax in our own country, even if not legal, for many interesting to get a GS cheap.

Who knows how the market in Germany will develop in the future.


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## osmin (Jun 9, 2012)

GSNewbie said:


> When I look at Chrono24, many offers are often from the U.S., without taking into account the sales tax in our own country, even if not legal, for many interesting to get a GS cheap.


What do you mean by this? If you import it into Germany you will have to pay the tax yourself


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

When I buy a watch from the States, I have to pay import VAT accordingly, which is often forgotten😉.
Stupidly, many people think with the offers, look, everything is so cheap in the USA😎


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## osmin (Jun 9, 2012)

Ok, now I get it. Thank you


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## GSNewbie (Oct 22, 2020)

You‘re welcome😉


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## Xaltotun (Apr 19, 2007)

krayzie said:


> I've heard of the no discount / waiting list game with the Rolex Sub, but Omega is new to me. Then again Omega has been raising prices pretty much non-stop for at least 10 years now.


In Canada, officially its been 'no discount', at least for five or six years minimum. At most, on display models, you can save tax, if the model is common or shows signs of handling...

And for Rolex, the no discount / waiting list game is for almost all models now, not just Submariner...


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## Louno (Jul 20, 2020)

Well, I think it's the perfect excuse for the dealer who doesn't want to offer a discount. In France dealers and brands can't agree on a street price, it's illegal, plain and simple.


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## thevowels (Mar 3, 2021)

I was browsing GS, the SGBK007 in particular, at an AD on vacation, and the salesperson (unprompted) said there was room for movement on the price.


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## Watchretriever (Aug 11, 2018)

I think that GS is putting serious pressure on their ADs not to discount. My AD that I used to buy all of my GS from at a modest discount stopped carrying GS somewhat recently and I can only assume that was due to GS demanding they not discount.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Watchretriever said:


> I think that GS is putting serious pressure on their ADs not to discount. My AD that I used to buy all of my GS from at a modest discount stopped carrying GS somewhat recently and I can only assume that was due to GS demanding they not discount.


I was told this directly from a very reputable and well known online AD who I won't identify. Basically, GS said no more discounts or the limited editions won't be allocated to the store. Again, this is probably a half truth but there must be pressure. As indicated up thread, the volume of GS available for sale in the classifieds for deep discounts tells me that this strategy isn't sustainable for GS. People are getting burned on them. I have been burned twice even when buying at a decent discount. Perception and reality are very different when it comes to GS. Personally, I love the brand but preowned is the only way to go. Buying at anything close to MSRP is a fool's errand unless you plan to keep the watch for life (which most of us here wont).


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## mosizzle (Jun 14, 2011)

What were discounts like before?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

mosizzle said:


> What were discounts like before?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would say 15 to 20 percent was doable on non LE models. Other’s probably got even more.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Define "before"? Yesterday of yesteryear... 

Buy GS because you like them and wear them. If you flip them and get "burned" some months after purchase; well...that should be a lesson to just buy watches you like and want to keep.


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## MattFra22 (Aug 12, 2019)

Loevhagen said:


> Define "before"? Yesterday of yesteryear...
> 
> Buy GS because you like them and wear them. If you flip them and get "burned" some months after purchase; well...that should be a lesson to just buy watches you like and want to keep.


Great advice here!


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## mosizzle (Jun 14, 2011)

Loevhagen said:


> Define "before"? Yesterday of yesteryear...
> 
> Buy GS because you like them and wear them. If you flip them and get "burned" some months after purchase; well...that should be a lesson to just buy watches you like and want to keep.


Like 2019-2020 before you know what lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Loevhagen said:


> Define "before"? Yesterday of yesteryear...
> 
> Buy GS because you like them and wear them. If you flip them and get "burned" some months after purchase; well...that should be a lesson to just buy watches you like and want to keep.


As is always my intention.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Loevhagen said:


> Define "before"? Yesterday of yesteryear...
> 
> Buy GS because you like them and wear them. If you flip them and get "burned" some months after purchase; well...that should be a lesson to just buy watches you like and want to keep.


It's bizarre we now have to repeat that as advice. You'd think it would be something obvious, but everyone's a trader these days, lOoKiNg FoR pRoFiTs.


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

One-Seventy said:


> It's bizarre we now have to repeat that as advice. You'd think it would be something obvious, but everyone's a trader these days, lOoKiNg FoR pRoFiTs.


It’s a sign of the times I’m afraid, everyone is looking for a profit on everything that they buy, the enjoyment of ownership is long gone for most people.

My teenage son sits up all night to bid in auctions for limited edition trainers. He has no intention of ever wearing them, he just wants to eBay them at a profit.

Im happy with that…..as I have always said to him “Son, I appreciate whatever you buy me for my birthday and Xmas and I don’t want to know how much it was. But when you are working, make sure you leave the price ticket on”


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

bigclive2011 said:


> It’s a sign of the times I’m afraid, everyone is looking for a profit on everything that they buy, the enjoyment of ownership is long gone for most people.
> 
> My teenage son sits up all night to bid in auctions for limited edition trainers. He has no intention of ever wearing them, he just wants to eBay them at a profit.
> 
> Im happy with that…..as I have always said to him “Son, I appreciate whatever you buy me for my birthday and Xmas and I don’t want to know how much it was. But when you are working, make sure you leave the price ticket on”


Just so we are clear, when I said I got burned, it was not because I was looking to turn a profit. I am an enthusiast. I love watches and I flip them to enjoy the hobby not to make money. So your statement "everyone is looking for a profit" is false. In my case, no, I was looking to minimize losses. I expect to lose some money in this hobby and I don't mind doing so. On two occasions, I have purchased new GS both at reasonable discounts up front. And in both cases, the watches were very difficult to sell and I incurred sizeable losses when they finally did sell. These losses were worse than those I have experienced on other brands.

This thread is about no discounts on GS. And the reason it's relevant to me at least is because paying MSRP, with no discount, is likely to result in an enthusiast losing a lot of money if they decide to sell it down the road which many of us do. My anecdotal experience from spending a lot of time in the classified here and over on reddit is that there is a large volume of GS being sold at deep discounts from MSRP. So, on the one hand, we have real evidence that resale values stink. On the other hand, we have evidence that GS keeps pushing prices up and now is eliminating discounts. In my view, something has got to give. Maybe, by raising prices and reducing discounts, resale will improve but I doubt it. I think it will be the opposite and sales will suffer. I have passed on several GS that I really wanted to try because I would have to pay MSRP for them which is not something I'm willing to do. Maybe I'm not the target audience.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

good point *Tpp3975 *I don't think anyone here is trying to flip GS for a profit. Some of the popular watches seem to sell at MSRP used, but there are a lot out there that don't.

Two+ years ago not too many people knew of GS, and my AD was only carrying 2-3. that has changed a LOT lately as GS is doing a big push in the US. Seems to be working here at least. Or maybe it is just that they need something to sell to people other than empty Rolex promises.

But yeah, I like to check used prices just to know where I stand before going to an AD. I'm thinking in general, selling an entry level luxury watch from a brand most don't know about is hard for an individual (lord knows, I needed a lot of patience selling mine).


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

chas58 said:


> good point *Tpp3975 *I don't think anyone here is trying to flip GS for a profit. Some of the popular watches seem to sell at MSRP used, but there are a lot out there that don't.
> 
> Two+ years ago not too many people knew of GS, and my AD was only carrying 2-3. that has changed a LOT lately as GS is doing a big push in the US. Seems to be working here at least. Or maybe it is just that they need something to sell to people other than empty Rolex promises.
> 
> But yeah, I like to check used prices just to know where I stand before going to an AD. I'm thinking in general, selling an entry level luxury watch from a brand most don't know about is hard for an individual (lord knows, I needed a lot of patience selling mine).


No i don’t think so either but it didn’t take long for the lecture about keeping watches to begin from the chirpers.

Regarding GS I think the problem is they fancy themselves a Rolex, Omega or Cartier equivalent brand but they aren’t there yet based on my experience. Now I think the watches are every bit as good as those brands (better in some areas worse in others) but the brand cache isn’t there. And you can’t force it by just raising prices. You have to earn it and it takes time. For now, buying GS non LE models is a risky proposition. Even if you got say 20 percent off new, you should expect to lose another 15 to 20 percent at resale.


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## Watchretriever (Aug 11, 2018)

Tpp3975 said:


> No i don’t think so either but it didn’t take long for the lecture about keeping watches to begin from the chirpers.
> 
> Regarding GS I think the problem is they fancy themselves a Rolex, Omega or Cartier equivalent brand but they aren’t there yet based on my experience. Now I think the watches are every bit as good as those brands (better in some areas worse in others) but the brand cache isn’t there. And you can’t force it by just raising prices. You have to earn it and it takes time. For now, buying GS non LE models is a risky proposition. Even if you got say 20 percent off new, you should expect to lose another 15 to 20 percent at resale.


I suppose it depends a lot on which model you buy but I think at 20 percent off new, you would do pretty well on a lot of GS. SBGA211 Snowflake and SBGM221 and I think they both sell on the secondary market for around 20% off retail.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Watchretriever said:


> I suppose it depends a lot on which model you buy but I think at 20 percent off new, you would do pretty well on a lot of GS. SBGA211 Snowflake and SBGM221 and I think they both sell on the secondary market for around 20% off retail.


The snowflake is certainly the exception. There are others. The dressier models do better. The sports models - not so much.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Watchretriever said:


> I suppose it depends a lot on which model you buy but I think at 20 percent off new, you would do pretty well on a lot of GS. SBGA211 Snowflake and SBGM221 and I think they both sell on the secondary market for around 20% off retail.


ya. I think I sold mine here for $4300 A bit more than 20% off of retail (there is a difference between asking and selling price). Bought a "winter" here. Most of those were (_actually_) selling about $1K less than MSRP used. Every AD I called wanted MSRP for it new - except locally there was a discount. The "spring" used seems to have asking prices at MSRP (although I can buy new cheaper).

The sports models are what, 30% under MSRP used? 

LE of course are a different matter. It really does make a difference what model it is.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

chas58 said:


> ya. I think I sold mine here for $4300 A bit more than 20% off of retail (there is a difference between asking and selling price). Bought a "winter" here. Most of those were (_actually_) selling about $1K less than MSRP used. Every AD I called wanted MSRP for it new - except locally there was a discount. The "spring" used seems to have asking prices at MSRP (although I can buy new cheaper).
> 
> The sports models are what, 30% under MSRP used?
> 
> LE of course are a different matter. It really does make a difference what model it is.


The sports models in particular don’t seem to move well. Even though I’m a big fan of them. My SBGN021 fetched 60 percent of MSRP and took two months to sell. Beautiful watch. I’m glad I found it at a discount oversees. US ADs weren’t budging on them. It would have been a bloodbath otherwise. I took a nice loss on a skyflake as well.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Tpp3975 said:


> The sports models in particular don’t seem to move well. Even though I’m a big fan of them. My SBGN021 fetched 60 percent of MSRP and took two months to sell....


OMG, I'm gonna have to start following you on WatchRecon!

I do wonder if things sell quicker on Reddit. Everything I look at there is sold by the time I look at it. Here, not so much.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

chas58 said:


> OMG, I'm gonna have to start following you on WatchRecon!
> 
> I do wonder if things sell quicker on Reddit. Everything I look at there is sold by the time I look at it. Here, not so much.


Yes they do. It’s a better platform. Easier to search. It’s a nice community.


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## ahonobaka (Jan 27, 2017)

mosizzle said:


> What were discounts like before?


Pains me to say this, but anyone remember the discounts when they rebranded? I picked up four GS' at 45%+ off...Man those were the days!


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## Purple Hayz (Jan 21, 2015)

Tpp3975 said:


> I was told this directly from a very reputable and well known online AD who I won't identify. Basically, GS said no more discounts or the limited editions won't be allocated to the store. Again, this is probably a half truth but there must be pressure. As indicated up thread, the volume of GS available for sale in the classifieds for deep discounts tells me that this strategy isn't sustainable for GS. People are getting burned on them. I have been burned twice even when buying at a decent discount. Perception and reality are very different when it comes to GS. Personally, I love the brand but preowned is the only way to go. Buying at anything close to MSRP is a fool's errand unless you plan to keep the watch for life (*which most of us here wont*).


And just who, pray tell, is this "us" to whom you refer? You either misunderstand the word "enthusiast" (which _is_ what you called yourself, no?), or you're not particularly adept at picking out watches. Regardless, GS tightening the ropes in response to heightened demand (and, to a lesser extent, a bid improve the brand's cachet) is rationale behavior in a free market. Taking a bath every time your flavor of the week grows stale, by contrast, well...._isn't_.

If anything, you should be thanking GS for raising the transaction costs on your poor, impulsive, or otherwise misguided choices. As it stands, you claim to "personally love the brand" yet you A) don't want to pay full freight for a GS, B) can't seem to find a GS worth keeping, and C) can't seem to stop losing money (and getting pissy about it) every time you're 'forced' to sell one.

Are you sure you're in the right hobby, hermano? You speak of "love and "enthusiasm," but everything you describe sounds _joyless_.

Or a "fool's errand," if you prefer. Just sayin...


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Purple Hayz said:


> And just who, pray tell, is this "us" to whom you refer? You either misunderstand the word "enthusiast" (which _is_ what you called yourself, no?), or you're not particularly adept at picking out watches. Regardless, GS tightening the ropes in response to heightened demand (and, to a lesser extent, a bid improve the brand's cachet) is rationale behavior in a free market. Taking a bath every time your flavor of the week grows stale, by contrast, well...._isn't_.
> 
> If anything, you should be thanking GS for raising the transaction costs on your poor, impulsive, or otherwise misguided choices. As it stands, you claim to "personally love the brand" yet you A) don't want to pay full freight for a GS, B) can't seem to find a GS worth keeping, and C) can't seem to stop losing money (and getting pissy about it) every time you're 'forced' to sell one.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the lecture Dad. You should feel proud. I suggest you head down to your local GS AD tomorrow and buy yourself something nice. At full price of course. Self righteous much?


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## JOHN J. (Nov 19, 2020)

What does everyone think of buying through the online Grand Seiko Boutique to obtain the six year warranty?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

JOHN J. said:


> What does everyone think of buying through the online Grand Seiko Boutique to obtain the six year warranty?


Biggest downside is you’ll pay full msrp plus tax but if you are paying that anyway (hence this thread topic), it may be worth it. If you go with a local AD you can establish a relationship which may be useful in obtaining hard to get pieces and/or the occasional discount. And a local AD can assist with service and other issues. I’d probably use the online boutique to grab an LE or other hard to get pieces for concern that I wouldn’t get one elsewhere. For regular purchases, I’d go to an AD or a broker who can get you a watch with a full AD warranty.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Purple Hayz said:


> And just who, pray tell, is this "us" to whom you refer? You either misunderstand the word "enthusiast" (which _is_ what you called yourself, no?), or you're not particularly adept at picking out watches. Regardless, GS tightening the ropes in response to heightened demand (and, to a lesser extent, a bid improve the brand's cachet) is rationale behavior in a free market. Taking a bath every time your flavor of the week grows stale, by contrast, well...._isn't_.
> 
> If anything, you should be thanking GS for raising the transaction costs on your poor, impulsive, or otherwise misguided choices. As it stands, you claim to "personally love the brand" yet you A) don't want to pay full freight for a GS, B) can't seem to find a GS worth keeping, and C) can't seem to stop losing money (and getting pissy about it) every time you're 'forced' to sell one.
> 
> ...


Hey why don’t you tell us more about your watch collection and your string of perfect purchases. Since you feel compelled to criticize (or troll) tell us more about you. Do you regularly pay full price for watches? Do you get satisfaction in doing so? Does it feel GOOD to throw away money? You must be wealthy beyond your means to do so. Or do you just lurk around here to throw shade on others?


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## Geequ (Oct 21, 2019)

GS can definitely pull this off, but first their watches need to be as recognized and revered by the general public as is the case with Rolex/PP/AP to name a few. 

I brought up the Grand Seiko name with friends and family over holidays last few months and they questioned why I spoke so highly of a battery/solar powered watch; they only hear the Seiko name part and assume.. GS needs some teeth and time in the marketing game.


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## chatman (Feb 11, 2020)

egwatchfan said:


> I have heard this but I also am skeptical. I have gotten great deals from ADs although I haven’t bought a new Gs in say two years or so…. So I guess it’s possible things have changed. But I’m still skeptical.


Things have changed. I bought a GS (LE) two years ago at a 10% discount. It is now worth a little less than double what I paid for it. Every GS I've bought since then has been at retail with no scope for discount, and every one is worth the same or more than I paid for it. If you are angling for popular models or popular limited editions, discounts are not available most of the time - sometimes the watches themselves aren't available!

That said, on the secondary market and at some AD's, I'll bet it's possible to score some discounts on regular production or unpopular pieces.


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## Purple Hayz (Jan 21, 2015)

Tpp3975 said:


> Thanks for the lecture Dad. You should feel proud. I suggest you head down to your local GS AD tomorrow and buy yourself something nice. At full price of course. Self righteous much?


 Think ya might be a decade (or two) off on your demographic, "junior," but I appreciate the sentiment. Too many vices (and disdain for hypocrisy) to claim any righteousness, but again I thank you.

As for this pricing fit that you're on atm, is that _really _what's got your panties in a wad? Because I cannot follow your logic. For real man _not _tryin to clown you. How can GS be too expensive _and_ of so little value that you (and "people") are getting "burned" on the second-hand market? That's not how capitalism usually works.

If you've got the coin and find one you love, why _wouldn't _you pay full freight? Last I checked, there's still few, if any, watchmakers offering GS-level finishing on cases & dials for ~6-8K, to say nothing for some of the excellent calibers (including SD and that cherry new 9SA5 hi-beat) in the mid-case. So they're still a _good_, if no longer great, value, no? Even if you don't have the coin or just can't bring yourself to pay more than you used to, then why not just snatch up one of the _thousands _of "minty" used GSs you say are floating around? What possible difference is there between a new GS and a 1-2 month old one after a year on the wrist? Some dude posted a "should I buy?" on f23 the other day with 9.7/10 (i.e. like new) Spring Drive for _two grand--_barely Longines/TAG money for a real GS.

So seriously, what's ur beef, bro? I get _that _your "mad." Just don't know why, cuz your two complaints (too expensive new but too readily available, and cheap, _like new_) cannot be reconciled rationally.



Tpp3975 said:


> Hey why don’t you tell us more about your watch collection and your string of perfect purchases. Since you feel compelled to criticize (or troll) tell us more about you. Do you regularly pay full price for watches? Do you get satisfaction in doing so? Does it feel GOOD to throw away money? You must be wealthy beyond your means to do so. Or do you just lurk around here to throw shade on others?


Deep breath, new blood. Pretty sure I've been here a _little _longer than you. Short take: Die-hard gearhead, watch nut, and accuraholic. Forum's resident statistician (I started the movement timing database here on WUS), and certified WIS "crazy." As my collection--86 and counting--is literally documented in spreadsheets and photos all over WUS, I'll trust you've mastered the "search" button. Here's the last couple month's fwiw, as I haven't benchmarked any of them yet:

BB58 (Xmas) and Master Chronometer (last week), both at AD full retail (if you think GS market is bad, try being a Rolex/Tudor fan for a week), as was the bronzie three years ago.









Speedy Chronoscope around New Year, also AD/retail










Also picked up fun little micro (Farer), a Tissot with the new COSC spec movement, and a Seiko I haven't shared yet 

Was offered the "privilege" of taking this one home ([email protected]#%ing Rolex scarcity BS) last week when I picked up the Ceramic:










But I can't stand the cyclops on a sub, so I took a pass. And now I'll _wait_, just like everyone else, until my n.d. comes in, because unlike the GS market, buying a Rolex used costs _double_, not half, of what they sell for new at an AD. And you wonder why I have no sympathy for your whining  Even the Omega guys would kill to have a secondary market as soft as GS's right now.


And on that note, how about we close with something both beautiful _and _familiar. Here's the first one:










And here's the next one, once we're finally DONE with Covid (or it's done with us )


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Tpp3975 said:


> I was told this directly from a very reputable and well known online AD who I won't identify. Basically, GS said no more discounts or the limited editions won't be allocated to the store. Again, this is probably a half truth but there must be pressure. As indicated up thread, the volume of GS available for sale in the classifieds for deep discounts tells me that this strategy isn't sustainable for GS. People are getting burned on them. I have been burned twice even when buying at a decent discount. Perception and reality are very different when it comes to GS. Personally, I love the brand but preowned is the only way to go. Buying at anything close to MSRP is a fool's errand unless you plan to keep the watch for life (which most of us here wont).


It does sound to me as if you're mainly buying watches to trade, make money. You say you "love" the brand, but make a loss every time you buy one because it never measures up, so you sell it later - believing you're entitled to profits or to flip your way to riches (a common disease these days!). The best possible advice anyone can give you is to stay away from GS. It doesn't sound like you actually keep any of their watches to wear and enjoy, and more importantly you'll likely never buy at a deep enough discount to guarantee an adequate return that meets your requirements.

You'll just have to accept that with this brand, when it becomes second-hand, it'll be cheaper - just like it used to be for all watches, before the moneymen moved in and raped this hobby dry... And that by far the best strategy for you is to leave behind Grand Seiko, and trade in other stocks.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> It does sound to me as if you're mainly buying watches to trade, make money


I already answered this question and the answer is no. Not sure why this is hard to comprehend. You think I’m lying? To be clear: I do not buy any watches to make money on them. Nor do I buy expecting a return.

Sometimes a watch works for me; sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes you bring them home and they don’t feel right. I’m my case, i actually sold them to upgrade to another GS I liked even more!

This thread is way off topic anyway. The point of the thread is that GS is eliminating discounts. We have clearly answered the question. It’s perfectly reasonable if people think their pricing strategy is justified or fair or whatever. Not my place to judge anyones spending habits. Maybe you perceive that there is value even at full price. I personally do not. Not because I want a profit but at least partly (but not exclusively) because I don’t want an unreasonable loss.


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## super_purple (Jul 11, 2021)

I, for one, think it's a big mistake for GS to pursue such aggressive price hikes. Even in Asia where the brand is relatively hot, the latest pieces are already in Submariner territory (okay, I know not many can get them at MSRP, but the comparison is still at the back of everyone's minds). 

In terms of design and craftsmanship, I think GS is pretty close to the top brands. But heritage, narratives and social preferences play a huge part in justifying premiums. Let the hype build gradually, let demand push up secondary market prices, and then dabble with reducing discounts and introducing pricier stainless steel models.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Purple Hayz said:


> Think ya might be a decade (or two) off on your demographic, "junior," but I appreciate the sentiment. Too many vices (and disdain for hypocrisy) to claim any righteousness, but again I thank you.
> 
> As for this pricing fit that you're on atm, is that _really _what's got your panties in a wad? Because I cannot follow your logic. For real man _not _tryin to clown you. How can GS be too expensive _and_ of so little value that you (and "people") are getting "burned" on the second-hand market? That's not how capitalism usually works.
> 
> ...


This made me laugh: "Deep breath, new blood." As though someone appointed you, the king of the WUS forums ... . I'm not young. My account was hacked here so I had to start new. Solid collection btw.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

super_purple said:


> In terms of design and craftsmanship, I think GS is pretty close to the top brands. But heritage, narratives and social preferences play a huge part in justifying premiums. Let the hype build gradually, let demand push up secondary market prices, and then dabble with reducing discounts and introducing pricier stainless steel models.


This is much more strategic than the sledgehammer "give me deep, deep discounts on lots of new product so when I sell them all I don't lose out". It doesn't take much economic ingenuity to realise that for as long as dealers are allowed to give fat discounts on everything, used prices will _never_ be robust enough for serial flippers.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> This is much more strategic than the sledgehammer "give me deep, deep discounts on lots of new product so when I sell them all I don't lose out". It doesn't take much economic ingenuity to realise that for as long as dealers are allowed to give fat discounts on everything, used prices will _never_ be robust enough for serial flippers.


You’re missing the point. You can’t create value overnight. You have to earn it. It takes years to create brand value like that. Omega has been trying for a long time to accomplish this (and has generally failed until maybe very recently). At the end of the day, they need to move watches to survive. ADs need to sell watches to survive. And discounts will be needed because you can’t just declare the watch is “worth” More today than yesterday just because you say it is so.

If a customer walks into an AD and offers to pay 85 percent, the AD needs to decide whether it’s worth it to make 35 percent today or hold out to make 50 percent later but it may not happen. That is how the market works.

It’s funny, suggesting discounts for watches are appropriate has created quite a stir here but I’d be surprised if anyone would pay full price for a car (and yes I’m aware that todays car market is out of whack).I truly hope no one here is foolish enough to pay MSRP for their next car because like a GS that too is a fools errand.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Tpp3975 said:


> If a customer walks into an AD and offers to pay 85 percent, the AD needs to decide whether it’s worth it to make 35 percent today or hold out to make 50 percent later but it may not happen. That is how the market works.


Exactly. But that means depressed second-hand prices too, which is a point you seem to be missing here. You are calling for big discounts, _and _strong residuals, on your depreciating commodity product ("...people are getting burned on them. I have been burned twice even when buying at a decent discount"). Which is it to be?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> Exactly. But that means depressed second-hand prices too, which is a point you seem to be missing here. You are calling for big discounts, _and _strong residuals, on your depreciating commodity product ("...people are getting burned on them. I have been burned twice even when buying at a decent discount"). Which is it to be?


Fair point. But I’m not calling for both and you are still misunderstanding me. I’m saying that even WITH a discount, residual values have been poor. Hence, buying now at newly increased prices and no discount is likely to be an utter disaster. Buyer beware.


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## super_purple (Jul 11, 2021)

Tpp3975 said:


> Fair point. But I’m not calling for both and you are still misunderstanding me. I’m saying that even WITH a discount, residual values have been poor. Hence, buying now at newly increased prices and no discount is likely to be an utter disaster. Buyer beware.


That's right. Secondary market prices are determined by bids and asks in a free market. The equilibrium on most GS pieces suggest consumers price them below retail value. Simply raising the retail value doesn't make the watches more valuable overnight. In fact, it might have the opposite effect


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

super_purple said:


> That's right. Secondary market prices are determined by bids and asks in a free market. The equilibrium on most GS pieces suggest consumers price them below retail value. Simply raising the retail value doesn't make the watches more valuable overnight. In fact, it might have the opposite effect


Exactly. And GS instructing dealers to stop discounts is basically price fixing. If this was milk, it would be illegal. I swear you’d think some people on here actually want to pay more as if it’s a badge of honor or something.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Tpp3975 said:


> Ridiculous. It’s not going to work. You can’t jack up prices and stop discounts at the same time. Omega is trying to do this right now as well. The watch market is out of whack. I’ve been burned on GS too many times on resale to ever pay full price.


Grand Seiko is following the Omega playbook very closely. I don't think it'll end well for either brand.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Maviarab said:


> Why would you expect a discount anyway? Whya re watches any different to your new TV, microwave or your new suit?
> 
> Pay the price or getting pre-owned and save a bundle. As for thousands flooded on used market, one could use that logic for pretty much any watch brand.


I don't pay MSRP for a new TV, microwave, or a new suit...


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Josh R. said:


> As a long-time collector, and out of principle, if a brand or AD isn't willing to discount, I'll simply move on to a different watch or brand. There are a lot of pieces I like and a lot of designs that overlap, and I'm usually able to buy at a reasonable discount from somewhere reputable. My goal has always been to have a balanced collection, which I'm fortunate to have. It just so happens that my entire collection has come about through pieces I've bought at a discounted MSRP. That might create faux offense in some active posters here. I simply buy what I like at a price I'm comfortable with, and usually keep what I buy for years without consideration for investment or future-value speculation.
> 
> My sole GS is an SBGV225, which I bought new at a 25% discount in 2019. I like HAQ, and honestly don't see much difference between a GS quartz and a Citizen Chronomaster (especially the titanium models).
> 
> ...


I just puchased a Citizen Chronomaster AB9000-52L for 65% off from the Citizen boutique, or about $1100 pretax, not sure why I would buy a comparable Grand Seiko 9F at full retail.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

GSNewbie said:


> If you get 30% at the retailer, what are you happy about? Certainly not about the watch, but about the possibility of selling the watch again at a profit.


You're kidding right? If you can get a discount on a watch, why wouldn't you want one, even if you never wish to resell it? Everytime I'm in the market for a high end watch, I contact every authorized dealer to see what's the best price I can get on it, the only watches I've paid full retail for are my two Rolexes, everything else, including a Patek, Vacheron, JLC, were purchased at a discount from ADs. I guess I technically paid full retail for my Tudors as well, but I purchased them while traveling overseas, and with VAT refunds and currency fluctuations, I got them at a substantial discount over US MSRP.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Tpp3975 said:


> You’re missing the point. You can’t create value overnight. You have to earn it. It takes years to create brand value like that. Omega has been trying for a long time to accomplish this (and has generally failed until maybe very recently). At the end of the day, they need to move watches to survive. ADs need to sell watches to survive. And discounts will be needed because you can’t just declare the watch is “worth” More today than yesterday just because you say it is so.
> 
> If a customer walks into an AD and offers to pay 85 percent, the AD needs to decide whether it’s worth it to make 35 percent today or hold out to make 50 percent later but it may not happen. That is how the market works.
> 
> It’s funny, suggesting discounts for watches are appropriate has created quite a stir here but I’d be surprised if anyone would pay full price for a car (and yes I’m aware that todays car market is out of whack).I truly hope no one here is foolish enough to pay MSRP for their next car because like a GS that too is a fools errand.


When Patek decided to reduce the amount of discounting at their ADs, they did several things: (i) thinned out the AD network dramatically; (ii) froze the MSRP for a year; (iii) increased the dealer price. These three things together made it easier for ADs to hold the line on prices, as they had to compete with fewer ADs, they has less of a margin to discount on, and the buyers did not have to contend with a no discount policy coupled with a price hike. I don't think Grand Seiko is adopting quite as thoughtful a process here.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

One-Seventy said:


> Exactly. But that means depressed second-hand prices too, which is a point you seem to be missing here. You are calling for big discounts, _and _strong residuals, on your depreciating commodity product ("...people are getting burned on them. I have been burned twice even when buying at a decent discount"). Which is it to be?


There is a limit to that strategy, and it ultimately depends on the price elasticity of demand for Grand Seikos. Every brand seems to be blindly following the Rolex strategy like a cargo cult, without fully understanding all the factors that allows Rolex to pursue such a strategy.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Tpp3975 said:


> Fair point. But I’m not calling for both and you are still misunderstanding me. I’m saying that even WITH a discount, residual values have been poor. Hence, buying now at newly increased prices and no discount is likely to be an utter disaster. Buyer beware.


_Trader _beware, you mean? Only the key consideration at the forefront of all your posts has been about residual value. Then again, I'm one of the handful of people left on earth who doesn't buy with the explicit plan to flip, and doesn't use at-risk capital to buy luxury, whose residual value I must rely on.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> _Trader _beware, you mean? Only the key consideration at the forefront of all your posts has been about residual value. Then again, I'm one of the handful of people left on earth who doesn't buy with the explicit plan to flip, and doesn't use at-risk capital to buy luxury, whose residual value I must rely on.


You realize you come off as extremely arrogant? It must be wonderful being you. Really you can pay full price because you are so smart and have so much money (only rich people call money “capital”) it doesn’t even matter because every watch you pick is your forever watch. I hope I wake up one day and get to be you… just for a day so I know what it feels like.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

mleok said:


> You're kidding right? If you can get a discount on a watch, why wouldn't you want one, even if you never wish to resell it? Everytime I'm in the market for a high end watch, I contact every authorized dealer to see what's the best price I can get on it, the only watches I've paid full retail for are my two Rolexes, everything else, including a Patek, Vacheron, JLC, were purchased at a discount from ADs. I guess I technically paid full retail for my Tudors as well, but I purchased them while traveling overseas, and with VAT refunds and currency fluctuations, I got them at a substantial discount over US MSRP.


Apparently it is badge of honor to pay full price for a luxury watch. Must make someone feel more important. It’s also completely and utterly stupid. Lotta GS fanboys here defending their pricing strategy as though they own stock in the company.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

One-Seventy said:


> _Trader _beware, you mean? Only the key consideration at the forefront of all your posts has been about residual value. Then again, I'm one of the handful of people left on earth who doesn't buy with the explicit plan to flip, and doesn't use at-risk capital to buy luxury, whose residual value I must rely on.


One doesn't have to be a flipper to be concerned about residual value. Even if you do all your due diligence, you might end up in a situation where a watch you thought would be a perfect addition for your collection fails to live up to its hype. In that situation, it would be nice to recover as much of your purchase price as possible, and there is absolutely no market justification for a brand with low residual values to increase their effective prices.

It boggles my mind that people are advocating for what is effectively a substantial price increase on a brand that does not have availability issues or a price inversion where the grey/preowned market prices exceed the MSRP. Truly, Grand Seiko has become a Veblen good for some.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

mleok said:


> One doesn't have to be a flipper to be concerned about residual value. Even if you do all your due diligence, you might end up in a situation where a watch you thought would be a perfect addition for your collection fails to live up to its hype. In that situation, it would be nice to recover as much of your purchase price as possible, and there is absolutely no market justification for a brand with low residual values to increase their effective prices.
> 
> It boggles my mind that people are advocating for what is effectively a substantial price increase on a brand that does not have availability issues or a price inversion where the grey/preowned market prices exceed the MSRP. Truly, Grand Seiko has become a Veblen good for some.


During Covid in particular, my purchases are sight unseen. I assume many are in the same boat. There is no GS AD where I live either. I’m careful with my decisions but they don’t always work out. Apparently that makes you a flipper or trader and that apparently is a negative connotation. I suspect the majority here on WUS are more like me and less like One-Seventy. Of course resale value matters. Suggesting otherwise is absurd.


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## krayzie (Apr 21, 2007)

mleok said:


> It boggles my mind that people are advocating for what is effectively a substantial price increase on a brand that does not have availability issues or a price inversion where the grey/preowned market prices exceed the MSRP. Truly, Grand Seiko has become a Veblen good for some.


Ask buddy pops from the UK here whether or not he would have bought his GS Quartz if it had a Seiko logo on the dial lmao!

Well that's what Seiko wanted to achieve otherwise why even bother to "spin off" GS as an "independent brand". But this strategy only works to a point until a deflationary collapse anyway lol!

Funny that the very well off people I've known over the years actually love to brag how much of an advantage they have taken of others like discounts for example, cuz it's a zero sum game and it makes them feel good like they've won something. Nothing wrong with getting a discount actually but I digress.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Tpp3975 said:


> During Covid in particular, my purchases are sight unseen. I assume many are in the same boat. There is no GS AD where I live either. I’m careful with my decisions but they don’t always work out. Apparently that makes you a flipper or trader and that apparently is a negative connotation. I suspect the majority here on WUS are more like me and less like One-Seventy. Of course resale value matters. Suggesting otherwise is absurd.


Even if you have seen the watch in the metal, one's appreciation for a watch can change through extended wear. It might be something as simple as not being able to get a good fit on your wrist after the bracelet is adjusted, in particular, the deployant clasp cantilevering so that it ends up becoming much too tight or loose. That's typically not something one can tell without purchasing the watch, since ADs aren't typically willing to size the bracelet for you to try on.

I have always found the intellectual snobbery exhibited by some Grand Seiko fans to be distasteful, and it's unfortunate that they seem to be adopting some of the most negative aspects of financial snobbery exhibited by some Rolex fans as well.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

krayzie said:


> Well that's what Seiko wanted to achieve otherwise why even bother to "spin off" GS as an "independent brand". But this strategy only works to a point until a deflationary collapse anyway lol!
> 
> Funny that the very well off people I known over the years actually love to brag how much of an advantage they have taken of others like discounts for example, cuz it's a zero sum game and it makes them feel good like they've won something. But I digress.


Sure, that's what Grand Seiko hopes to achieve, and that's probably why I'll never get a Grand Seiko at this rate, because it'll never be a Veblen good for me. Given that I grew up with Seiko as a watch brand that offered a quality product at an excellent value, and that in my mind, the quality has dropped, and the prices have increased without them fully appreciating that luxury is about having no weak spots, I simply don't associate Grand Seiko with luxury. The Grand Seiko Micro Artist Studio pieces are a different matter, but even then, their emphasis on Spring Drive models that fundamentally depend on integrated circuits is incompatible with what I expect of a heirloom watch. This is not to say they won't be successful with their strategy, but simply that it doesn't resonate with me.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

krayzie said:


> Ask buddy pops from the UK here if he would have bought his GS Quartz if it had a Seiko logo on the dial lmao!
> 
> Well that's what Seiko wanted to achieve otherwise why even bother to "spin off" GS as an "independent brand". But this strategy only works to a point until a deflationary collapse anyway lol!
> 
> Funny that the very well off people I've known over the years actually love to brag how much of an advantage they have taken of others like discounts for example, cuz it's a zero sum game and it makes them feel good like they've won something. Nothing wrong with getting a discount actually but I digress.


I'm clearly not the target audience for Grand Seiko, because I actually prefer the older models with the Seiko branding, as I find the dials more balanced. I missed out when they clearanced out the older models at substantial discounts, and the only ones which were left when I looked at the clearance sales were the 42mm models.

At the end of the day, I don't care necessarily about getting a discount, I care that the price out the door makes sense to me. For me, I just don't find value in Grand Seiko's MSRP, and going from a 20% typical discount to a zero discount policy is equivalent to a 25% price increase, which is insane.


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## ts298 (May 11, 2021)

I got my first GS in 2019 for 20% off, it ended up being in the mid $2000s. For the money it was amazing. It was a 9F. I was more recently able to stomach paying retail for one of the seasons Hi Beat models, about $6000. But seeing the prices rise to the $9000s is wild. Above Rolex. I'm not a Rolex fan but Rolex is known around the world and a cash-equivalent. I get it though. It seems right now there's no price too high for luxury items. See this article describing Chanel running huge price hikes last year and seeing NO decrease in demand:

Wall Street JournalChanel Tests Purse Lovers With $3,000 Price HikesChanel SA's small Classic Flap bag was always a luxury item, but after three price hikes last year, it is selling for $8,200..1 day ago


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## song31 (Mar 31, 2007)

I do understand that it’s not allowed but many are up for grabs at a slight discount second hand and they are wonderful to own


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## Winzzz (Jan 30, 2021)

ts298 said:


> I got my first GS in 2019 for 20% off, it ended up being in the mid $2000s. For the money it was amazing. It was a 9F. I was more recently able to stomach paying retail for one of the seasons Hi Beat models, about $6000. But seeing the prices rise to the $9000s is wild. Above Rolex. I'm not a Rolex fan but Rolex is known around the world and a cash-equivalent. I get it though. It seems right now there's no price too high for luxury items. See this article describing Chanel running huge price hikes last year and seeing NO decrease in demand:
> 
> Wall Street JournalChanel Tests Purse Lovers With $3,000 Price HikesChanel SA's small Classic Flap bag was always a luxury item, but after three price hikes last year, it is selling for $8,200..1 day ago


I can bring 9000 cash to my rolex AD and im pretty sure i would end up empty handed


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

ts298 said:


> I got my first GS in 2019 for 20% off, it ended up being in the mid $2000s. For the money it was amazing. It was a 9F. I was more recently able to stomach paying retail for one of the seasons Hi Beat models, about $6000. But seeing the prices rise to the $9000s is wild. Above Rolex. I'm not a Rolex fan but Rolex is known around the world and a cash-equivalent. I get it though. It seems right now there's no price too high for luxury items. See this article describing Chanel running huge price hikes last year and seeing NO decrease in demand:


Rolex is not a watch, it's an asset - a store of value. Try buying a new one for nine grand. I understand prices have been hiked in the US although not where I live, where they are mostly where they were in 2019. That will not last long, because we have inflation now (something entire generations are likely to find alien!).


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Tpp3975 said:


> You realize you come off as extremely arrogant? It must be wonderful being you. Really you can pay full price because you are so smart and have so much money (only rich people call money “capital”) it doesn’t even matter because every watch you pick is your forever watch. I hope I wake up one day and get to be you… just for a day so I know what it feels like.


Well, I don't blast my cash - sorry, "capital" - at every moving target, hoping for big discounts and great retained value like you do. I'm obviously a hell of a lot more careful than you, for one, and if I _do _sell a watch after a few years, I don't turn into some entitled sob demanding the market pays me loads of money, then whining like a girl when i don't get it. I get plenty of use out of a watch, I'm not sensitive to a few hundred bucks either way on whatever I get for it, and life is frankly way too short to be worrying about a few $'00s after several years of wear. So go ahead, keep up the SJW effort and maybe GS will extend you personally some nice discounts, just for you being you. Sheesh.

Oh. And d'you know what I do if I see a watch I like but it's too expensive (that includes GS, amongst countless others)? I don't buy it, and move on. Wild, isn't it?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> I don't turn into some entitled sob demanding the market pays me loads of money, then whining like a girl when i don't get it.


Really? You sure sound like one. Let’s add offensive, inappropriate and sexist to the list as well. Perhaps you should deploy some of that excess capital of yours to learning how to be a human being. Sheesh is right.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Tpp3975 said:


> Really? You sure sound like one. Let’s add offensive, inappropriate and sexist to the list as well. Perhaps you should deploy some of that excess capital of yours to learning how to be a human being. Sheesh is right.


Gosh, this _is _the right forum for Snowflakes, isn't it...

I'm obviously never going to learn a damn thing from you except how to complain about losing money whenever you flog another bloody watch. If I DID want to learn about margin... ah sod it, life's way too short. You can join that other f642 plonker in my _Ignore_ toilet.

<splash>


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> You can join that other f642 plonker in my _Ignore_ toilet.
> 
> <splash>


Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.


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## ts298 (May 11, 2021)

Fair points on Rolex... it's true these days you can't really walk into an AD and pick one up. However once economic conditions change and Instagram hype moves onto the next subject, I think we'll be back to a 2019-like situation where you can easily pick up a $6000 OP or $8000 DJ out of the case. From what I understand, just a few years before that, you could buy a Sub or GMT out of the case and sometimes with a discount. 

Right now in the current madness people are buying out every GS release within hours. Let's say in 2 years things calm down and someone can pick up an $8000 DJ out of the case or a $9500 GS... I don't think the GS will do well. And I say that as a GS nerd. 

I'm curious, are discounts still available in Japan? Can you walk into Bic Camera and get the usual 25% off?


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

ts298 said:


> I'm curious, are discounts still available in Japan? Can you walk into Bic Camera and get the usual 25% off?


Seiya Japan still seems to be discounting their Grand Seikos, so I suspect that you'll still be able to get a discount in Japan. Grand Seiko USA's CEO was hired from Omega, and is clearly applying the Omega playbook (increasing prices, no discounts, countless limited editions) here.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

> During Covid in particular, my purchases are sight unseen. I assume many are in the same boat. There is no GS AD where I live either. I’m careful with my decisions but they don’t always work out.


Ah, now that makes sense. _8 pages later, and the answer is revealed:_

I think the title should be - "
*No Discounts on GS internet orders?*
I called around everywhere to get a discount, and no one would give me one on my last GS. Well except for my local AD.

Clearly GS doesn't want people shopping around for the best price, but my AD is able to give me one if I walk in the door and I'm serious.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

chas58 said:


> Ah, now that makes sense. _8 pages later, and the answer is revealed:_
> 
> I think the title should be - "
> *No Discounts on GS internet orders?*
> ...


Well, ADs in general will not discuss discounts via email, so give them a phone number that they can call back on, or call them directly.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Winzzz said:


> I can bring 9000 cash to my rolex AD and im pretty sure i would end up empty handed


But you may be able to try on a watch with no movement inside!


ts298 said:


> I got my first GS in 2019 for 20% off, it ended up being in the mid $2000s. For the money it was amazing. It was a 9F. I was more recently able to stomach paying retail for one of the seasons Hi Beat models, about $6000. But seeing the prices rise to the $9000s is wild...
> 
> lChanel Tests Purse Lovers With $3,000 Price HikesChanel SA's small Classic Flap bag was always a luxury item, but after three price hikes last year, it is selling for $8,200..1 day ago


I think maybe WUS distorts things. My 9F always has been and still is $3,200. I have seen some 5% price hikes, but there is a big difference from a price hike and offering more expensive options. For sure, some of the prices of the newer models (Iike TPP's watch or the birch) are shocking, but its not like the "regularly priced GS" watches aren't still there.



One-Seventy said:


> ...I understand prices have been hiked in the US although not where I live, where they are mostly where they were in 2019. That will not last long, because we have inflation now (something entire generations are likely to find alien!).


Really? Rolex (and to some degree Tudor) had an across the board 10% increase in the US.. On most watches, that is easily a $1000 bump. Personally, I didn't think Rolex was worth 100% MSRP in 2019 - compared to the competition. Now of course everything is distorted in that land. I would rather buy a GS at 90-100% MSRP than a Rolex at 100-200%MSRP.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

mleok said:


> Well, ADs in general will not discuss discounts via email, so give them a phone number that they can call back on, or call them directly.


I did - called all the trusted dealers here on a watch that has been readily available for a couple of years. No discounts on phone orders in my case. 

If TPP can 't get a discount calling around, and I can't either - that makes sense to me. That doesn't mean that any of us can not go to our local AD and get a discount (assuming of course you have a local AD). Just sharing my experience.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

mleok said:


> One doesn't have to be a flipper to be concerned about residual value. Even if you do all your due diligence, you might end up in a situation where a watch you thought would be a perfect addition for your collection fails to live up to its hype. In that situation, it would be nice to recover as much of your purchase price as possible, and there is absolutely no market justification for a brand with low residual values to increase their effective prices.


Exactly. Buying a new watch I check the residual and somewhere like Jomashop to get an idea of what kind of discount is reasonable for my purchase. Its no surprise that watches selling near MSRP used will not be discounted, while there is always a big gap between MSRP and Used when ADs regularly discount a model.
I think that is basic research for a hobbiest.

For instance for my snowflake:
MSRP was 5800
new was 5000
used from trusted reseller 4600
used from private 4250 is reasonable.

In that case, paying MSRP is kinda silly to me.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

chas58 said:


> Exactly. Buying a new watch I check the residual and somewhere like Jomashop to get an idea of what kind of discount is reasonable for my purchase. Its no surprise that watches selling near MSRP used will not be discounted, while there is always a big gap between MSRP and Used when ADs regularly discount a model.
> I think that is basic research for a hobbiest.
> 
> For instance for my snowflake:
> ...


Indeed, to me, it's worth the effort to me to save a thousand dollars for an hour or two of shopping around. Why pay more if you can avoid it? I guess if I was making $500/hour, then it might not be worth the effort, but I don't make that much hourly. I am not too proud to say that I have many watch wants, and there are constraints on the resources I devote to this hobby, not sure why some people view it as a badge of honor to pay whatever Grand Seiko demands of them. If Grand Seiko was truly able to command full retail prices, they would not have to release so many limited editions, so their new policy is aspirational or wishful thinking at best.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

chas58 said:


> Ah, now that makes sense. _8 pages later, and the answer is revealed:_
> 
> I think the title should be - "
> *No Discounts on GS internet orders?*
> ...


Maybe if you have an relationship. But I have a few relationships with ADs that I have purchased from before. They will not negotiate price online via email etc period. What they will do is get on the phone and discuss price. I don’t believe this is about online, by phone or in person. I just think GS has instructed no more discounts. Some ADs will follow through, some will ignore it. I was told the hammer was to reduce allocations of the LE models to violators.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Tpp3975 said:


> Maybe if you have an relationship. But I have a few relationships with ADs that I have purchased from before. They will not negotiate price online via email etc period. What they will do is get on the phone and discuss price. I don’t believe this is about online in phone or in person. I just think GS has instructed no more discounts. Some ADs will follow through, some will ignore it. I was told the hammer was to reduce allocations of the LE models to violators.


This is the kind of AD unfriendly policy is exactly the kind of thing which ends up causing ADs to liquidate their stock on the grey market. As I've said, this is essentially a 25% price hike on top of already significant upward pricing moves. Grand Seiko not discounting is not going to make me more keen to add one to my collection when I already think they're overreaching.


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## krayzie (Apr 21, 2007)

mleok said:


> Well, ADs in general will not discuss discounts via email, so give them a phone number that they can call back on, or call them directly.


Obviously can't have paper trails to ruin it for everybody.

GS just needs that one hypebeast model like the Sub where the ADs will offload straight to the resellers without even having it on display or kept in stock. Their Speedy Pro strategy is preventing them from ever achieving this.

The watch stores look pretty dead around my neck of the woods. I still see that occasional mainland Chinese customer once a while but I'm pretty sure either most of them have already left for home or some sort of cash flow issue lately. Don't think they are into GS either when they're rocking $300k Porsche Taycans like Corollas around here.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

krayzie said:


> Obviously can't have paper trails to ruin it for everybody.
> 
> GS just needs that one hypebeast model like the Sub where the ADs will offload straight to the resellers without even having it on display or kept in stock. Their Speedy Pro strategy is preventing them from ever achieving this.
> 
> The watch stores look pretty dead around my neck of the woods. I still see that occasional mainland Chinese customer once a while but I'm pretty sure either most of them have already left for home or some sort of cash flow issue lately. Don't think they are into GS either when they're rocking $300k Porsche Taycans like Corollas around here.


Dubai or Cananda?


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## krayzie (Apr 21, 2007)

Tpp3975 said:


> Dubai or Cananda?


Land of the trucks.


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## Fgama (Oct 31, 2017)

Walked into GS Boutique last weekend and casually asked for Omiwatari SBGY007 and was offered 15% discount of the list price straight away. I do not have purchase history whatsoever. I supposed someone with purchase history/relationship with AD may get more?

Same scenario when you look at grey market prices, many sellers are able to offer below RSP.


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## super_purple (Jul 11, 2021)

Fgama said:


> Walked into GS Boutique last weekend and casually asked for Omiwatari SBGY007 and was offered 15% discount of the list price straight away. I do not have purchase history whatsoever. I supposed someone with purchase history/relationship with AD may get more?
> 
> Same scenario when you look at grey market prices, many sellers are able to offer below RSP.


15% off SBGY007 is rather significant discount, even considering if you're in Singapore (which your profile suggests). Waitlists are starting to form for SBGY007 in certain places and buyers have been told the next shipment arrival is unknown.


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## Xhantos (Jun 8, 2019)

Fgama said:


> .... I supposed someone with purchase history/relationship with AD may get more?..


Where I live, generally speaking, friends and family and regular customers will get the least discount, a stranger might get a lot more


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## Fgama (Oct 31, 2017)

super_purple said:


> 15% off SBGY007 is rather significant discount, even considering if you're in Singapore (which your profile suggests). Waitlists are starting to form for SBGY007 in certain places and buyers have been told the next shipment arrival is unknown.


wow, really? Yes, I am in SG. I really like the case size & shape, it feels really nice on my wrist. Still unsure about the bluish dial, read about it but seems too blue in person than what I imagine. And I have used my watch fund recently so not considering to get another watch in the first 1/2 this year, at least.


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## Fgama (Oct 31, 2017)

Xhantos said:


> Where I live, generally speaking, friends and family and regular customers will get the least discount, a stranger might get a lot more


maybe they thought I can be a regular… I am a regular, I regularly visit their boutique times to times but never bought anything. 😂

I do want to add 1 GS into my collection but just can‘t pick one.


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## chatman (Feb 11, 2020)

MX793 said:


> GS resale is garbage because the supply of second-hand GS watches far exceeds demand. If GS weren't the darling of people who catch and release watches as a hobby, the supply of second-hand GS watches would be smaller and that should increase resale.


Not all GS resale is “garbage.” Every GS I own is selling over the price I paid (MSRP or less) - in some cases a lot more.

Yeah if you buy a GS diver, “snowflake,” chrono, or regular production model, resale isn’t great. But certain LEs have done pretty well, and the newer stuff with the 9RA2 and 9RA5 seem to be holding the line on residuals.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

chatman said:


> Not all GS resale is “garbage.” Every GS I own is selling over the price I paid (MSRP or less) - in some cases a lot more.
> 
> Yeah if you buy a GS diver, “snowflake,” chrono, or regular production model, resale isn’t great. But certain LEs have done pretty well, and the newer stuff with the 9RA2 and 9RA5 seem to be holding the line on residuals.


Right. Limited editions are excluded from this conversation as pointed out several times. The constant flow of LEs from GS could be the subject of a a different thread and is equally irritating. Also from what I have seen lately a lot of those LEs that were once selling for over MSRP aren’t selling all that much anymore. I see a lot of people asking for more than MSRP but not a lot of sales. I’m sure there are exceptions.


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## nickvrett (Apr 14, 2017)

Got my first GS (Sbgw231) from an AD in Ontario for which I had no purchase history with and got a 15% discount by just asking for it. Perhaps they are not selling as many in Canada.


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## chatman (Feb 11, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Right. Limited editions are excluded from this conversation as pointed out several times. The constant flow of LEs from GS could be the subject of a a different thread and is equally irritating. Also from what I have seen lately a lot of those LEs that were once selling for over MSRP aren’t selling all that much anymore. I see a lot of people asking for more than MSRP but not a lot of sales. I’m sure there are exceptions.


Not sure why it’s irritating. Some of them are pretty nice. What can be irritating is when GS launches an LE and then either expands the release or releases successors that are very similar to the previous LEs. That’s been happening a lot with the “lion’s mane” dial stamp, and is now infecting the “Kira Zuri” dials as well. A few dial formats have thus far avoided this latter fate, but only time will tell if their exclusivity will last.

That said, it’s pretty impressive for any brand to have a large number of models that hold residual value or appreciate. Look at premium brands like JLC or Breguet - they’re exceptional watches that tank on the secondary market, even if you purchase them at a discount. Against that backdrop, the fact that any GS does well (LE or otherwise) on resale is testament to the brand’s growing presence and reputation among collectors.


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

I have heard the no discount thing myself. My AD told me about this last year and the GS Rep confirmed this at the AD's annual watch fair last Oct. The Seiko rep was giving discounts there and also the Omega rep was giving out discounts on Omega watches. It was a small discount but still a discount. The only one not giving a discount was GS. That said I got a great discount back in Apr 2020 on a SBGV239. This was because they(the AD) wanted it gone as they wanted the space in the display case for its replacement (SBGP005)

I tend to buy my GS used rather then new as I find I feel more better with the used ones then a brand new one as twice I left the AD after buying a new GS and on the drive home asked myself "did I really spent x amount on a new GS when I probably could have got it on the sales forum for about half the price?" Likely my buying new GS models days are over as I have decided to buy only Seiko Grand Seiko dialed watches as I like the looks of the dial with both on it and I can take advantage of buying used Seiko grand Seiko for low prices


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## chatman (Feb 11, 2020)

journeyforce said:


> I have heard the no discount thing myself. My AD told me about this last year and the GS Rep confirmed this at the AD's annual watch fair last Oct. The Seiko rep was giving discounts there and also the Omega rep was giving out discounts on Omega watches. It was a small discount but still a discount. The only one not giving a discount was GS. That said I got a great discount back in Apr 2020 on a SBGV239. This was because they(the AD) wanted it gone as they wanted the space in the display case for its replacement (SBGP005)
> 
> I tend to buy my GS used rather then new as I find I feel more better with the used ones then a brand new one as twice I left the AD after buying a new GS and on the drive home asked myself "did I really spent x amount on a new GS when I probably could have got it on the sales forum for about half the price?" Likely my buying new GS models days are over as I have decided to buy only Seiko Grand Seiko dialed watches as I like the looks of the dial with both on it and I can take advantage of buying used Seiko grand Seiko for low prices


2020 was a different time. Back in 2019 I saw an SBGH269 in a display case, unspoken for. I was going to get either an SBGA375 or SBGA211, but that '269 was calling to me, so I bought it instead a 15% discount. It now is reselling on Chrono24 for upwards of 50% more than the retail price! And the AD? They don't sell GS anymore - GS pulled their support for the store in favor of their local boutique (which of course doesn't give discounts), and also strictly police their other ADs (e.g., WesTime, Ben Bridge) on any pricing adjustments. That's especially true of hard-to-get pieces like the SLGA007 I recently picked up from WesTime - not even a hint of a discount on that one.

Even Omega is tamping down on discounts, though you can usually get more than 10% from ADs, particularly on less popular pieces.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

journeyforce said:


> tend to buy my GS used rather then new as I find I feel more better with the used ones then a brand new one as twice I left the AD after buying a new GS and on the drive home asked myself "did I really spent x amount on a new GS when I probably could have got it on the sales forum for about half the price?" Likely my buying new GS models days are over as I have decided to buy only Seiko Grand Seiko dialed watches as I like the looks of the dial with both on it and I can take advantage of buying used Seiko grand Seiko for low prices


on the flip side, I've thought - dang that used GS is a bargain! Then later realizing I could have gotten a good discount at the AD, its not such a great buy (not bad, but not as good as I though).


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## changsterSF (11 mo ago)

JNW1 said:


> [QUOTE="Tpp3975, post: 54371766, member: 1493636" Paying msrp for a watch is as foolish as paying msrp for a car.


You obviously haven’t been watching the automotive market lately. There are virtually no new cars available on dealer lots in the US and everything the dealers get in is presold - at MSRP! Popular models in some markets go for above MSRP. All due to a shortage of computer chips. Wacky world we live in.
[/QUOTE]

Porsche dealer advised me the GTS model is priced at $15K above MSRP and there is a waitlist of 10 so far.


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## chatman (Feb 11, 2020)

changsterSF said:


> You obviously haven’t been watching the automotive market lately. There are virtually no new cars available on dealer lots in the US and everything the dealers get in is presold - at MSRP! Popular models in some markets go for above MSRP. All due to a shortage of computer chips. Wacky world we live in.



Yeah it sucks to be looking for a car right now. I put my name on a Cayman GTS list a few months ago, and while there's no markup, there's also no timing assurance. But a $15K markup on a Porsche GTS seems a lot less ridiculous than a $20K markup on a Civic Si, which is apparently now a thing. If I paid that much for a Civic, I'd feel like a chump. Better to drive what you've got until this chip shortage craziness subsides.


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## JLittle (Nov 7, 2020)

chatman said:


> Yeah it sucks to be looking for a car right now. I put my name on a Cayman GTS list a few months ago, and while there's no markup, there's also no timing assurance. But a $15K markup on a Porsche GTS seems a lot less ridiculous than a $20K markup on a Civic Si, which is apparently now a thing. If I paid that much for a Civic, I'd feel like a chump. Better to drive what you've got until this chip shortage craziness subsides.


I'm glad both my vehicles are relatively newer. Both still well under warranty. Not even 30k on either and we'll maintained. Both are going to last a long time.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

JLittle said:


> I'm glad both my vehicles are relatively newer. Both still well under warranty. Not even 30k on either and we'll maintained. Both are going to last a long time.


Easy. Order a Tesla. Faster than a Cayman and no mark up. Yes I know it lacks soul …


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## chatman (Feb 11, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Easy. Order a Tesla. Faster than a Cayman and no mark up. Yes I know it lacks soul …


I love my wife's Tesla, but they aren't exactly easy to get (unless you want the performance trim). Anything below performance is a waiting game - shorter than the 1 year for a Cayman but still a wait.


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## chatman (Feb 11, 2020)

JLittle said:


> I'm glad both my vehicles are relatively newer. Both still well under warranty. Not even 30k on either and we'll maintained. Both are going to last a long time.


Same, and ours are both partially or fully electric, which reduced maintenance. My reservation on the Cayman is really just for a "fun" car that may be going out of production soon, so if I can get it at MSRP I will be patient. If not, oh well - not going to spend stupid amounts of money to have it right now. 

Kind of the same mentality I have for wristwatches.


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## Atr91x (Jan 26, 2019)

Same! Just purchased a new GS from reputable AD. When asking for discounts, GS not allowing for discounts.


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## Tomatoes11 (Feb 17, 2015)

Only way I see this working is if they stop production of everything until the shelves are empty and the market value prices start going up, if they ever do. I don’t see GS eating losses like that for the time that is required for it to work. So yeah. Bad strategy and it’s not going to work for sure. Lol


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Well, this year most brands have raised prices 5-10% (or more in UK).

most of the older watches still seem to have the old price, newer GS's have had some price increases. 

Would it be better if they raised their price then gave you a 5% discount?


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