# Breitling Superquartz



## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

I have been trying to figure out what ETA movement is used in my Aerospace Avantage. The Breitling site says it is a B 79 but I can't find the equivalent ETA number.

I've found the ETA equivalent for my Colt Chrono, B 73 = 251.232.

When I look inthe stickies, I find this:

B 71 Super quartz (SQ)
B 72 Super quartz (SQ)
B 73 Super quartz (SQ)
B 74 Super quartz (SQ)
B 75 Super quartz (SQ)
B 76 Super quartz (SQ)
B 77 Super quartz (SQ)
B 78 Super quartz (SQ)
B 79 Super quartz (SQ)
B 80 Co-Pilot module. Quartz digital.


B 73 and B 79 are clearly not the same animal, though both are so-called Superquartz (SQ). I don't know about the other SQs because I haven't any watches that use those movements, but I really would like to find out more about the B 79. The text says that Breitling only use four ETA movements, but there doesn't seem to be any breakdown among the SQs from B 73 (which we know is the 251.232) up to B 79.

I've got a copy of the Parts/Technical Manual for the 4F32A, 8F32A, 8F33A and 8F 35A and am hoping to find the equivalent manuals for the two Breitlings I have acquired.

Can any of you knowledgeable guys help here?


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

Hi artec,
The movements in the thermocompensated _Breitling Aerospace_ models are based on the _ETA 988.352_ (_ETA Thermoline_). _Breitling_ orders its movement with slight modifications like _larger_ _window for the bottom lcd display_ and _repetition minute_ function. These modifications don't effect the timekeeping functions and the accuracy performance of the thermocompensated base movement.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

ppaulusz said:


> Hi artec,
> The movements in the thermocompensated _Breitling Aerospace_ models are based on the _ETA 988.352_ (_ETA Thermoline_). _Breitling_ orders its movement with slight modifications like _larger_ _window for the bottom lcd display_ and _repetition minute_ function. These modifications don't effect the timekeeping functions and the accuracy performance of the thermocompensated base movement.


As ever, ppaulusz, you are a fount of valuable information....... thank you. I had a bet with myself that you would know!

Now I'm going to try and download the manuals for both movements, to see what the story is on regulation/adjustment. I don't know if it will be necessary on either of them yet, of course, but I want to find out before I need the information.

I part-traded my Double Eagle for the Aerospace because I found I was never wearing the Omega...... now it remains to be seen how much I wear the Breitlings. They aren't my usual style, much less understated, bigger and clunkier but so far, I find I'm liking and enjoying them.

Thanks again.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

artec said:


> ...Now I'm going to try and download the manuals for both movements, to see what the story is on regulation/adjustment...


The technical manual for the ETA 988.352 is not available from the ETA homepage and I could not find it elsewhere on the net either. Good luck to you!


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

artec said:


> As ever, ppaulusz, you are a fount of valuable information....... thank you. I had a bet with myself that you would know!


George is indeed The Man! Now, if only I would get my butt in gear and do my part of the rewrite of our Thermocomp article. He has updated his part, and included updated usage info such as he shared here.


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

ppaulusz said:


> The technical manual for the ETA 988.352 is not available from the ETA homepage and I could not find it elsewhere on the net either.


Could be part of a defined "Wanted -- Dead or Alive" list I've been thinking of.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Bruce Reding said:


> Could be part of a defined "Wanted -- Dead or Alive" list I've been thinking of.


I do not have it on-line but I do have it on CD, I believe. But I am not sure where the CD is... I'll look around.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Eeeb said:


> I do not have it on-line but I do have it on CD, I believe. But I am not sure where the CD is... I'll look around.


Hi Eeeb, it would be great if you could put your hands on the CD some time.... thanks.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

If someone could post the manual, that would help us trying to regulate the watch.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

ronalddheld said:


> If someone could post the manual, that would help us trying to regulate the watch.


The manual would be nice but a high-resolution photo of the movement could offer just enough info for the calibration procedure or at least it would make the task an easier one.
Is anyone out there with an Aerospace and a digital camera?


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

ppaulusz said:


> The manual would be nice but a high-resolution photo of the movement could offer just enough info for the calibration procedure or at least it would make the task an easier one.
> Is anyone out there with an Aerospace and a digital camera?


Yes, I have both but I'm not sure I want to take the back off a two-week-old watch! Since I'm the bloke who raised this issue, though, it should be me if if it were to be anyone!

The reason I asked was in order to start preparations for regulation if that should prove necessary. Since the watch is still new I don't know whether it will be necessary or not. The back is help on by 6 screws, evenly distributed round the edge of the case. Does that kind of arrangement pose any special problems? With gaskets, seals, internal covers etc?
My other Breitling, the Colt chrono, with the B 73/251.232, has a screw back with 15 flats...... not the sort of wrench one has lying about! God knows how one would go about getting that one off.


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## dwbrooks1 (Jun 5, 2008)

I have an Aerospace, a digital camera and one more critical thing: a dead battery. When it started its EOL flashing thing, I knew it was time to say “thank you” to this forum for all the knowledge I have gained here. So here’s some pics and a few comments.

As ppaulusz has said, the movement is based on the ETA 988.352. However, that movement is rectangular and the B79 is not. The side opposite the stem is radiused to allow a few more traces and vias, perhaps for the addition of the minute repeater function postulated by ppaulusz. The movement designation may not be legible in my somewhat blurry pictures; it is E10.451 V8.

I bought this watch based on what I’ve learned here. It is almost too “blingy” for my taste; I really prefer the appearance of the Chronomaster. But I went for the Breitling because of its accuracy plus I can read the hands AND the date without my glasses (even in the dark). I hope to see a Chronomaster in person someday so I can check the date legibility.


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## Bruce Reding (May 5, 2005)

Outstanding, dwb! Glad you've found the forum so helpful. :-!

Why don't you post these pics in the "Notable watches/Movements" sticky? It would be a great adder.


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## Matt Sutton (May 26, 2008)

Very nice, and accurate Swiss. I had a Breitling Chronomat with the same bezel. Be careful as it seems to snag on clothing etc.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm getting into multifunction watches... they make a lot of sense - you can tell time at a glance and you can get exact time and other functions via the digital display. The big dates they can provide are useful for us in the 'experienced' class :-d

Add thermocompensation and you have quite a watch :-!

Thanks for the pics of the movement... the extra real estate you mention on the watch is useful. Someday it would be fun to do an analysis of the layouts of quartz watch movements ... I think most of the change over the past 35 years has been to make them cheaper not more functional... This is an exception.


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

Great stuff, dwb, thanks! :-!

It's clearly seen on your picture that the adjustment step for calibration is _1 impulse = 0.33 seconds/month _(as expected from that movement).
Usually _ETA_ places the calibration terminal(s) next to the marking of the adjustment steps and marks them _C+ _and_ C-._ In my opinion, reading the _technical manual_ of the multifunction _ETA E20.341 (Thermoline)_ would give us the info that is needed for the calibration procedure in this case as well. 
The _technical manual_ for the _ETA E20.341 (Thermoline)_ is available in_ pdf_ format from the official_ ETA_ site.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

That is why I ultimately would want an all digital watch with the best TC available(or maybe soon CSAC accuracy)


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

ppaulusz said:


> Great stuff, dwb, thanks! :-!
> 
> It's clearly seen on your picture that the adjustment step for calibration is _1 impulse = 0.33 seconds/month _(as expected from that movement).
> Usually _ETA_ places the calibration terminal(s) next to the marking of the adjustment steps and marks them _C+ _and_ C-._ In my opinion, reading the _technical manual_ of the multifunction _ETA E20.341 (Thermoline)_ would give us the info that is needed for the calibration procedure in this case as well.
> The _technical manual_ for the _ETA E20.341 (Thermoline)_ is available in_ pdf_ format from the official_ ETA_ site.


Ppaulusz, I see the C + terminal and, near it, another dead-end terminal but I can't see a minus sign by it. Since it seems that the terminals used for pulsing in adjustments are always dead-ends, I suppose the unidentified C must be the negative one. Should the movement have the batter in place when the adjustment is made? And if so, Does one use the battery positive, which appears to be accessible while the battery is in place, or the positive of another battery which is grounded to the watch frame? I can't see any other identifying terminals on the movement, can you?

My Aerospace has gained just a second in 31 days, which is well within the Breitling 15 seconds a year and even further inside the COSC spec of 25.5 seconds a year. It looks as if I ought to be able to take it down three clicks, and get it almost on the money.

My best Chronomaster has gained about half a second in the same month, which is outside spec, but not by much and I can't be sure enough of the half second to justify sending it back to Citizen. The other two are well outside spec, so after I've given them another month or so, I think I'll send them back via the ever-reliable Higuchi.


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## JRP (Sep 28, 2006)

1. did I read this correctly? You have 3 Chronomasters and NONE of them are within spec? I was peeved off when my chronomaster was doing what your best chronomaster is doing (+ 6 secs per year). IT seems the Citizen QC is going down.

2. Both my Breitlings- Colt II is around +12 secs and Chrono Colt II is around -11.5 secs. Pity I cant send them to Britling cos according to them its within their spec. BUT Im happy knowing that I can "tune" my Colt Chrono to around +0.5 secs per year and the COlt to aroung +4.5 secs per year- IT IS POSSIBLE and Im happy knowing it that can be done myself with a cooperative watchmaker.

With the Citizen, you have to rely on your luck that Citizen will tune optimally.

Just my thoughts

regards


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

As I progress through my HEQ OCD it is becoming apparent to me it bears a relationship to kids... as you get more of them your tolerance to things the you used to not put up with increases! :-d


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

JRP said:


> 1. did I read this correctly? You have 3 Chronomasters and NONE of them are within spec? I was peeved off when my chronomaster was doing what your best chronomaster is doing (+ 6 secs per year). IT seems the Citizen QC is going down.
> 
> 2. Both my Breitlings- Colt II is around +12 secs and Chrono Colt II is around -11.5 secs. Pity I cant send them to Britling cos according to them its within their spec. BUT Im happy knowing that I can "tune" my Colt Chrono to around +0.5 secs per year and the COlt to aroung +4.5 secs per year- IT IS POSSIBLE and Im happy knowing it that can be done myself with a cooperative watchmaker.
> 
> ...


I have no idea what happened, but my black Chronomaster has suddenly decided to turn over a new leaf and has been running on the money for the last two months! The figures I gave before were an earlier check. My blue one is still at about 6 sec a year....... close but no cigar.
I wonder if it's the warmer weather or if, like me, they are susceptible to allergies?


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## ppaulusz (Feb 11, 2006)

artec said:


> Ppaulusz, I see the C + terminal and, near it, another dead-end terminal but I can't see a minus sign by it. Since it seems that the terminals used for pulsing in adjustments are always dead-ends, I suppose the unidentified C must be the negative one. Should the movement have the batter in place when the adjustment is made? And if so, Does one use the battery positive, which appears to be accessible while the battery is in place, or the positive of another battery which is grounded to the watch frame? I can't see any other identifying terminals on the movement, can you?...


- I'd say, the unidentified C is the negative one.
- Battery needs to be in place for the calibration.
- Use battery positive of the installed battery!
- Read the calibration instructions of similar ETA thermocompensated movements before attempting to do it yourself! (Don't do it unless you're 100% sure of what you're doing!)


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

JRP said:


> 1. did I read this correctly? You have 3 Chronomasters and NONE of them are within spec? I was peeved off when my chronomaster was doing what your best chronomaster is doing (+ 6 secs per year). IT seems the Citizen QC is going down.
> 
> 2. Both my Breitlings- Colt II is around +12 secs and Chrono Colt II is around -11.5 secs. Pity I cant send them to Britling cos according to them its within their spec. BUT Im happy knowing that I can "tune" my Colt Chrono to around +0.5 secs per year and the COlt to aroung +4.5 secs per year- IT IS POSSIBLE and Im happy knowing it that can be done myself with a cooperative watchmaker.
> 
> ...


Apparently my Citizens like being left alone, or else two of them were ashamed by their performance! Two of them now appear to be within spec. The third one is gaining a bit more than spec. However, since I never wear it, I think I'll probably put it up for sale and reduce my inventory to only two!

Now that it has been established that the Breitling is capable of adjustment, I think I shall wait until the watch has run for 6 months or so, and presumably settled into its running pattern and try regulating it. It seems to be running at about + 1 second a month, so three jolts of 0.33 seconds a month ought to put it on the money. That will be in early October.


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Bump for an excellent topic, looking into getting an Aerospace myself (I love my "Exceed" but could use a chrono and a repeater !), did anyone go ahead and regulate theirs ?


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## TicTacman (Apr 5, 2006)

PPaulusz hi
During 2007 I was trying to tune my B-1 (cal78) using the 1 pulse=0.33sec/M procedure. I did that using advanced time measurement machine, in fact and for reasons I can not disclose here i had practically all the laboratory tooling + 25C constant temperature settings to do it correctly. however every tuning pulse brought the watch to non controllable accuracies it could jump randomly to -1.5 sec/ M another additional pulse to -2.7sec/Month then to the opposite direction to +1.7 sec/M
We couldent find any linear or regular Pulse versus accuracy stability.

Nowadays I have a wonderful B1 with +2.4 sec/Year accuracy!! wearing it 10 to 12 hours a day. but this is because I searched for the right movement through my Breitling sources for almost two years.
Im extremely curious if you guys succed to tune your watches using the same procedure i failed to inplement.

good luck.
abe.



ppaulusz said:


> Great stuff, dwb, thanks! :-!
> 
> It's clearly seen on your picture that the adjustment step for calibration is _1 impulse = 0.33 seconds/month _(as expected from that movement).
> Usually _ETA_ places the calibration terminal(s) next to the marking of the adjustment steps and marks them _C+ _and_ C-._ In my opinion, reading the _technical manual_ of the multifunction _ETA E20.341 (Thermoline)_ would give us the info that is needed for the calibration procedure in this case as well.
> The _technical manual_ for the _ETA E20.341 (Thermoline)_ is available in_ pdf_ format from the official_ ETA_ site.


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## Hans Moleman (Sep 24, 2007)

I have managed to calibrate my ETA 252.611 with George's help. That movement was extra difficult since the large battery had to come out when calibrating. The power needed to be supplied externally.
You can read all about these wacky adventures in an old thread!

A lot of mistakes were made, but I've learned:


Keep the temperature constant. It does matter. At least it does not confuse matters even more.
Touching the plus or minus plate needs to be done with great determination: A short stab with a needle worked for me. Gingerly lowering a needle always seems to generate a few extra pulses.
You need to have a great reference to measure the rate.
The crystal needs time to settle after the power has been disconnected. A few days even.
I believe that some older timing machines work off the crystal vibrations. That is speculation, but I would be suspicious of them and I personally would like another reference to check that these do actually indicate the rate. Esp with movements with inhibition periods.

So yes, it did work for me. Not in one afternoon, but that was my own fault.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

That is one of my goals for an Aerospace.


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## TicTacman (Apr 5, 2006)

Trying to recall the steps followed during my 2007 calibration session and reviewing again the E20.341 ETA procedure at that time I did not mind the following Note:

The inhibition period is
16 minutes.
The rate must be checked with an
instrument that allows measuring
over one or several periods of
16 minutes.

The instrument we used to measure the rate was the official Breitling system which I do not recall its name. however improper short circuiting with improper needle tips and overlooking the inhibition time may be the cause of the calibration failure.
thanks for the tips. this will be for the next time.



Hans Moleman said:


> I have managed to calibrate my ETA 252.611 with George's help. That movement was extra difficult since the large battery had to come out when calibrating. The power needed to be supplied externally.
> You can read all about these wacky adventures in an old thread!
> 
> A lot of mistakes were made, but I've learned:
> ...


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## Hans Moleman (Sep 24, 2007)

The inhibition period would have been the biggest bugbear.
Well spotted!


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Just bumped into a technical manual for the E20.34 movement (aka B78 of the Breitling B-1 and now the Airwolf aka Superquartz) here : http://www.orisol.co.il/various/b-1-eta-e20-341-movement.pdf

They have some detailed explanations on page 8 on how to adjust the watch :



> *13.Checking the rate*
> Checking without an instrument
> Check the rate as follows:
> a) Set the watch to the exact
> ...


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

This is only for a B-1 and not the Aerospace?


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

er...yes, as specified in my message, possibly not too different on the ETA 988.352 but if you have a link for its technical manual please post it.


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

Unfortunately, I have never seen the Aerospace technical manual. Does anyone here have a copy?


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## TicTacman (Apr 5, 2006)

Hi webvan;
I allocated the manual for all interested at my company's website www.orisol.co.il

I didn't yet found a regulating manual of the Aerospace.
any findings let me know.

rgrds.
abe.



webvan said:


> Just bumped into a technical manual for the E20.34 movement (aka B78 of the Breitling B-1 and now the Airwolf aka Superquartz) here : http://www.orisol.co.il/various/b-1-eta-e20-341-movement.pdf
> 
> They have some detailed explanations on page 8 on how to adjust the watch :


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

We will need more than just the company website's splash page to find the manual.

Thanks for taking the time to post it.


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## webvan (Dec 11, 2008)

Yes I was a tad confused too, I thnk he noticed my link http://www.orisol.co.il/various/b-1-eta-e20-341-movement.pdf and indicated he had put it there so it remains available.


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## O2AFAC67 (Feb 8, 2006)

artec said:


> I have been trying to figure out what ETA movement is used in my Aerospace Avantage. The Breitling site says it is a B 79 but I can't find the equivalent ETA number.
> 
> I've found the ETA equivalent for my Colt Chrono, B 73 = 251.232.
> 
> ...


From the Breitling forum's "Articles" posted December 22nd, 2006... https://www.watchuseek.com/f39/superquartz-caliber-information-42026.html


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Thank you. This is essentially in agreement with the first response to my post, from ppaulusz, but it provides more details. However, I've sold the watch now so maybe the information will be of use to some-one else!


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## Kiwi Mac (Apr 12, 2009)

This might be a dumb question, but what in this instance is an 'impulse'?

I've just decided to return my B1 (more or less the same movement I think) to Breitling Australia for regulation as it is under warranty from a recent maintenance service and running very slightly slower than it should be at around -0.085 spd.

BTW, are quartz movements as susceptible to physical shock as mech movements? I've seen mech movements change by 5 spd just from falling on the floor!



ppaulusz said:


> Great stuff, dwb, thanks! :-!
> 
> It's clearly seen on your picture that the adjustment step for calibration is _1 impulse = 0.33 seconds/month _(as expected from that movement).
> Usually _ETA_ places the calibration terminal(s) next to the marking of the adjustment steps and marks them _C+ _and_ C-._ In my opinion, reading the _technical manual_ of the multifunction _ETA E20.341 (Thermoline)_ would give us the info that is needed for the calibration procedure in this case as well.
> The _technical manual_ for the _ETA E20.341 (Thermoline)_ is available in_ pdf_ format from the official_ ETA_ site.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Kiwi Mac said:


> This might be a dumb question, but what in this instance is an 'impulse'?
> ...
> BTW, are quartz movements as susceptible to physical shock as mech movements? I've seen mech movements change by 5 spd just from falling on the floor!


Impulse is one tap on the adjustment point. You need to understand self regulation to understand that. There are posts on that.

Quartz movements are far less susceptible to shock than mechanicals. They might break if the shock is sufficient, but they don't change their timing. Indeed, Quartz Chronometer (COSC) testing includes a series of shocks that mechanicals don't have to face...


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## petew (Apr 6, 2006)

Eeeb said:


> They might break if the shock is sufficient, but they don't change their timing. Indeed, Quartz Chronometer (COSC) testing includes a series of shocks that mechanicals don't have to face...


Eeeb I've seen first hand quartz watches both skip beats and hang up for a beat or two when exposed to shocks. I used to play volleyball a lot and wore Swatches with eta's. It was very common to see this behavior when playing.


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## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

petew said:


> Eeeb I've seen first hand quartz watches both skip beats and hang up for a beat or two when exposed to shocks. I used to play volleyball a lot and wore Swatches with eta's. It was very common to see this behavior when playing.


Ah, I was not clear. The timing of the quartz crystal is not subject to much if any variation due to normal shocks. The hands on the display may 'skip a beat' and show a loss of time. But these variations are momentary and do not continue after the shocks discontinue... unlike what can happen with a mechanical watch.


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