# My Laco is chipping



## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

I’ve had this watch a few months now, I’m absolutely in love with it. I wear it daily while flying and doing other duties, so it gets dinged. I noticed the case “chipping” recently and I’m very confused. Per Laco, it’s a sandblasted case with no coating. I emailed them and they confirmed there is no coating and they’ve never seen this before. They did say it had a fingerprint protection on it though.

They offered a case replacement at a discount but it’s still pretty steep considering shipping overseas. I understand it will get use so I’m not too concerned if this is normal. But I’m confused how this isn’t coated yet seems to have some type of coating coming off. Any ideas?


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## dirtvictim (Mar 9, 2006)

It looks like a pvd coating, is it titanium? It can be sandblasted to remove that coating.


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## Dpp (Nov 3, 2021)

If it's a few months old then it should still be under warranty.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Dpp said:


> If it's a few months old then it should still be under warranty.


Unfortunately it’s new old stock so it’s about 4 years old. I don’t understand why Laco is saying they don’t coat the watches yet everyone is telling me it appears to be PVD coated, any ideas?


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

dirtvictim said:


> It looks like a pvd coating, is it titanium? It can be sandblasted to remove that coating.


It’s stainless steel and per Laco “sandblasted stainless steel” and they have told me there is no coating on their watches which is so weird to me!


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## Packleader (Aug 25, 2011)

flynavy812 said:


> Any ideas?


You really need to stop doing this.


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## dirtvictim (Mar 9, 2006)

flynavy812 said:


> It’s stainless steel and per Laco “sandblasted stainless steel” and they have told me there is no coating on their watches which is so weird to me!


SS won't do that unless it has a coating. Guessing you got it used?


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

dirtvictim said:


> SS won't do that unless it has a coating. Guessing you got it used?


Yes from here actually, but it was in brand new condition.


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## Volf (12 mo ago)

I wouldn't be buying another anything from them, it would effectively be throwing good money after bad money.

This should not happen after four years, coating or not, it is simply very poor workmanship.


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## b0fh (Oct 9, 2021)

that looks like anything but stainless steel.


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## Mtvandi (Aug 1, 2020)

That is bizarre and definitely not something normal for a quality watch case. I would push Laco further on what is going on there and see if they can be of more help to come up with a decent solution.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

There are tons of these Lacos around, even on this forum, so it’s certainly not a common issue with this range of models or we’d have seen it before on here.

It also looks like a clear coating in the pictures rather than a PVD coating (hard to tell from the photo).

Was it NOS when you bought it or could a previous owner have tinkered a with a “protective” substance on it?


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## BaronOttoMatic (Feb 9, 2021)

In case you don't get anywhere with Laco, you could consider taking it to a local shop and having it re-blasted or Cerakoted.

Would it be back to factory spec? No.
Cheaper and faster than sending back to Laco? Yes.
Kill all resale value? Definitely. 

But you'd have a watch that's one of a kind with a cool story. 

Blue skies, buddy!


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## Ptmd (Jul 28, 2017)

Never seen something like this, it looks like what happens to those gold plated vintage watches.


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## watchobserver (Oct 28, 2021)

Sorry, OP. This looks bad and like a coating, indeed.


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## Weissen (Oct 31, 2019)

Doesnt look like stainless steel. Stainless has an oxide layer, but it’s only a couple of nanometres thick. That coating is way thicker than that.
Are you sure it hasn’t had a cheeky cerakote treatment by the previous owner?

Yeah, after a little research, I’d almost say 100% that the watch has been cerakoted (or similar) at some point and you’re seeing failure of the coating due to impact and some wear and tear on the edge of the bezel, one of lugs and perhaps the crown also.


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## jdub (Oct 15, 2006)

If there is no coating , then it's either the metal de-laminating or a form of corrosion. My guess would be the former but I have never seen this happen on a watch , seems very odd.


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## Al.Macrest (Mar 24, 2011)

flynavy812 said:


> I’ve had this watch a few months now, I’m absolutely in love with it. I wear it daily while flying and doing other duties, so it gets dinged. I noticed the case “chipping” recently and I’m very confused. Per Laco, it’s a sandblasted case with no coating. I emailed them and they confirmed there is no coating and they’ve never seen this before. They did say it had a fingerprint protection on it though.
> 
> They offered a case replacement at a discount but it’s still pretty steep considering shipping overseas. I understand it will get use so I’m not too concerned if this is normal. But I’m confused how this isn’t coated yet seems to have some type of coating coming off. Any ideas?
> View attachment 17037552


I'm confused by them confirming it doesn't have a coating, but has fingerprint protection. Isn't that a coating? Or are they talking about the crystal? (Synthetic sapphire picks up more fingerprints than the FBI.) It doesn't seem like a sandblasted case would pick up fingerprints. What's happening to the case is peeling not chipping, so there's something on it.
I try to factor in ease of serviceability in choosing a new brand. I'm surprised they offered a case replacement instead of total replacement (I assume in warranty), which would get it resolved for you right away. Even if they replace the case, I doubt that's the end of the issue. The replacement case would/should be manufactured in the same way, and however you're using it, I suspect the same thing will happen. The situation reminds me of buying a product that turns out to be bad and fails, and the manufacturer offers me a replacement and I'm thinking, "So that one can fail too?"
Sorry for your troubles. A hobby should be pleasurable, not stressful. Unless that's your thing. I have a friend who is a pilot, and loves playing an ATC simulation game. Meanwhile I'm thinking, "You don't have enough stress in your life??"


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

Al.Macrest said:


> I'm surprised they offered a case replacement instead of total replacement (I assume in warranty), which would get it resolved for you right away. Even if they replace the case, I doubt that's the end of the issue. The replacement case would/should be manufactured in the same way, and however you're using it, I suspect the same thing will happen.


The jury is still out on that one. I’m inclined to believe Laco and suspect the previous owner of the watch did something dodgy.

Otherwise there would be many more instances of this being reported on this forum. This is their most popular model and hundreds of forum members here own one of these.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Buramu said:


> The jury is still out on that one. I’m inclined to believe Laco and suspect the previous owner of the watch did something dodgy.
> 
> Otherwise there would be many more instances of this being reported on this forum. This is their most popular model and hundreds of forum members here own one of these.


This is the best response from what I see. I've never seen anything like this on a watch of the Laco standard, and it doesn't sound like something they would do. 

That leads me to think that something happened to it in the 4 years before it got to you where someone "added some protection". 



flynavy812 said:


> It’s stainless steel and per Laco “sandblasted stainless steel” and they have told me there is no coating on their watches which is so weird to me!


It's clearly coated, and the coating is coming off. Certainly it looks just like a 15 year old car where the clearcoat is coming of.
its not delamination or corrosion.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Hmmmh.
The annual output at Laco some years ago was +/- 50.000 and most likely increased since then. So, Laco has about 50.000 pleased customers a year and that - in my eyes - proves a working QC. Exceptions confirm the rule, of course. Anyway, about 50.000 happy customers a year confirm a good QC at Laco. I never saw/heard of a Laco case with similar chipping. So I wouldn‘t worry at all about the replacement case Laco offered. Hard to believe a *„‰“ *damage will occure again with the replacement case.

As far as I know the color of the stainless steel case can only be achieved with colored blasting material (Admixture). The "anti-fingerprint" coating is a transparent clear layer of μm strength. Laco, plese corrent me if I am wrong.

I‘d accept Laco‘s offer though. New case, new chance.


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## Al.Macrest (Mar 24, 2011)

Buramu said:


> The jury is still out on that one. I’m inclined to believe Laco and suspect the previous owner of the watch did something dodgy.
> 
> Otherwise there would be many more instances of this being reported on this forum. This is their most popular model and hundreds of forum members here own one of these.


Oh, I must have missed that it was a second-hand purchase. Thanks.


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## Gargamel35 (Aug 26, 2015)

4 years old and looks like new (new old stock..). Maybe "new" look was achieved with extra coating and was done by the seller?


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone. I have a hard time believing anyone would after they fact add a coating to be honest. I know it’s possible but it just seems weird. 

As far as Laco, well… they are offering to help but at a cost. I imagine this will cost me 100.00 in shipping both ways, and potentially 200.00 to replace the case since it’s technically out of warranty. I would argue that regardless of warranty if this is the ONLY case of something like this happening then it might warrant a good deed service to figure out what the heck is going on.

I’ve tried to find other photos online of similar cases to see if it has this sort of matte/smooth grey finish but no luck, anyone have any?


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Here’s another angle of another spot.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Al.Macrest said:


> I'm confused by them confirming it doesn't have a coating, but has fingerprint protection. Isn't that a coating? Or are they talking about the crystal? (Synthetic sapphire picks up more fingerprints than the FBI.) It doesn't seem like a sandblasted case would pick up fingerprints. What's happening to the case is peeling not chipping, so there's something on it.
> I try to factor in ease of serviceability in choosing a new brand. I'm surprised they offered a case replacement instead of total replacement (I assume in warranty), which would get it resolved for you right away. Even if they replace the case, I doubt that's the end of the issue. The replacement case would/should be manufactured in the same way, and however you're using it, I suspect the same thing will happen. The situation reminds me of buying a product that turns out to be bad and fails, and the manufacturer offers me a replacement and I'm thinking, "So that one can fail too?"
> Sorry for your troubles. A hobby should be pleasurable, not stressful. Unless that's your thing. I have a friend who is a pilot, and loves playing an ATC simulation game. Meanwhile I'm thinking, "You don't have enough stress in your life??"


Well that’s the thing, I’m pretty rough on my watches, I don’t baby them. I fly with them, shower, yard work, etc. it’s a tool for me. So I fully accept it will ding and scratch over time and develop a unique finish, but in this case I was like what the heck? How is something just sandblasted essentially peeling? Was weird to see.


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## Al.Macrest (Mar 24, 2011)

flynavy812 said:


> Well that’s the thing, I’m pretty rough on my watches, I don’t baby them. I fly with them, shower, yard work, etc. it’s a tool for me. So I fully accept it will ding and scratch over time and develop a unique finish, but in this case I was like what the heck? How is something just sandblasted essentially peeling? Was weird to see.


Yeah, it's not a good look. Looks like it got too much sun!


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Al.Macrest said:


> Yeah, it's not a good look. Looks like it got too much sun!


Here’s another, I did this with my finger nail.


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## watchobserver (Oct 28, 2021)

flynavy812 said:


> Here’s another angle of another spot.
> 
> View attachment 17038628
> 
> View attachment 17038629


Maybe it’s the light, but the color does indeed look odd. It seems more glossy than my sandblasted case. I wonder about the theory above that it was coated by a third party?


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

watchobserver said:


> Maybe it’s the light, but the color does indeed look odd. It seems more glossy than my sandblasted case. I wonder about the theory above that it was coated by a third party?


Im going to ask the seller.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

Here are 2 closeups of mine.

It seems mine (directly from Laco) is much more matte (less glossy) and the grain of the sandblasting is a bit clearer. Yours looks like it has an extra layer of something on top of it.
The color also seems different, but that could be just the white balance of the picture.


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## chas58 (Aug 29, 2018)

Looks to me that someone messed with your watch and painted/coated it. Doesn't look to me like a Laco issue.



flynavy812 said:


> Well that’s the thing, I’m pretty rough on my watches, I don’t baby them. I fly with them, shower, yard work, etc. it’s a tool for me. So I fully accept it will ding and scratch over time and develop a unique finish, but in this case I was like what the heck? How is something just sandblasted essentially peeling? Was weird to see.


My solution was to get a Bronze Archimedes (let it get scratched and develop a unique finish) or a hardened Damasko (DS30) that is mostly impervious to scratching. 

your watch was coated after the sandblasting, and that indeed is odd.


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## PotatoSmashed (Dec 14, 2021)

Strange, it definitely gives off the impression that some kind of clear coat was applied to it, especially evident in that angled wrist shot, and the fact that you were able to scratch into it with your fingernail. The areas revealed where parts of it has flaked off look more like the expected factory finish.


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## drdas007 (Oct 2, 2012)

I'd have to agree with those that posted above - it looks like some sort of protective coating is starting to peel off. My two Laco's do not have this type of wear. It must have been applied after it left the factory.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

It looks delaminated to me as well. Not acceptable, even for an NOS watch, IMHO.

Good luck. Very weird. Never seen this before, so I hope you can get it corrected and back to normal sooner than later.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Doesn‘t look like a Laco issue to me too. Case colour reminds me of those Helenarou look-a-like Laco cases. Not saying it is but there must be an explanation for the darker case colour. I might be wrong but does the crystal seem to sit a bit higher into the case compared to other Laco Fliegers ? Looking at the two Leipzig I own I can't resist this impression.
I admit I am puzzled.


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## watchobserver (Oct 28, 2021)

flynavy812 said:


> Im going to ask the seller.


Here's mine in addition to the one by @Buramu. Hope this helps!


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## Stchambe (Jun 1, 2009)

redacted


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

watchobserver said:


> Here's mine in addition to the one by @Buramu. Hope this helps!


This does help, and this also makes no sense. This is what I would expect something to look like thats sandblasted... kind of a matte/rough looking metal with that color. Left very confused!


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## SCD (May 4, 2009)

Are they blasted with titanium beads? Maybe that process imparts a layer of titanium?


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

SCD said:


> Are they blasted with titanium beads? Maybe that process imparts a layer of titanium?


Doubt it, my theory is this is how it looks before sand blasting maybe?


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## SpeedFreek67 (6 mo ago)

flynavy812 said:


> I’ve had this watch a few months now, I’m absolutely in love with it. I wear it daily while flying and doing other duties, so it gets dinged. I noticed the case “chipping” recently and I’m very confused. Per Laco, it’s a sandblasted case with no coating. I emailed them and they confirmed there is no coating and they’ve never seen this before. They did say it had a fingerprint protection on it though.
> 
> They offered a case replacement at a discount but it’s still pretty steep considering shipping overseas. I understand it will get use so I’m not too concerned if this is normal. But I’m confused how this isn’t coated yet seems to have some type of coating coming off. Any ideas?
> View attachment 17037552


To my eye, that is quite clearly a clear-coat lacquer that is peeling off. Someone clear-coated that case, for sure. I have seen the exact same thing with other items that have been clear-coated or lacquered.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

SpeedFreek67 said:


> To my eye, that is quite clearly a clear-coat lacquer that is peeling off. Someone clear-coated that case, for sure. I have seen the exact same thing with other items that have been clear-coated or lacquered.


I believe you, but who would do this? It’s the whole case… they took apart the whole case and paid to have it coated? Just doesn’t seem to make sense. Is it possible this is how it left Laco and wasn’t blasted at all?


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## SpeedFreek67 (6 mo ago)

flynavy812 said:


> I believe you, but who would do this? It’s the whole case… they took apart the whole case and paid to have it coated? Just doesn’t seem to make sense. Is it possible this is how it left Laco and wasn’t blasted at all?


It *is* blasted, under the lacquer. Either someone lacquered the Laco case, or it isn't a Laco case. You can see the lacquer chipping along the edge, too.











It even has the sheen of being lacquered over the blasting. It shows the tell tale signs of having been _sprayed_ with lacquer. You can see the crown reflected in the lacquer, on the right top edge there...


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## Skeptical (Sep 14, 2012)

Never seen anything like that. I am very interested to hear what, if anything the previous owner can add.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

SpeedFreek67 said:


> It *is* blasted, under the lacquer. Either someone lacquered the Laco case, or it isn't a Laco case. You can see the lacquer chipping along the edge,
> 
> 
> It even has the sheen of being lacquered over the blasting. It shows the tell tale signs of having been _sprayed_ with lacquer. You can see the crown reflected in the lacquer, on the right top edge there...


Wow, that makes it more clear for sure. I don’t even know where I’d begin getting something coated. I might do a scratch test to see if it’s the whole case, it’s hard to tell. If that is true, someone seriously bought a brand new watch and decided to pay more money, disassemble the whole thing, and coat it? Just seems extremely weird.

the papers show 12/2018 so it’s approx 4 years old. This doesn’t make sense!


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Skeptical said:


> Never seen anything like that. I am very interested to hear what, if anything the previous owner can add.


They aren’t able to add anything, other than some lady bought for her husband and he wasnt a big fan so they sold it.


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## Weissen (Oct 31, 2019)

Previous owner thought that it might have needed some 'extra' surface protection perhaps?


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

Weissen said:


> Previous owner thought that it might have needed some 'extra' surface protection perhaps?


It wouldn’t even surprise me if some WR obsessed person thought they could bump the water resistance of the watch by covering it in goo.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> They aren’t able to add anything, other than some lady bought for her husband and he wasnt a big fan so they sold it.


So, it is used? Not new old stock as per your post #1? Did you know if they swapped the case? I am inclined to think that Mike may have a point (see his post #36) - the case looks like a copy of the Laco design made by Helenarou based on a few tell tale signs. Can you post clearer pictures 90 degree straight on the dial front / case back / crown side and 9 o'clock side showing the FL23883 inscription?


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## Skeptical (Sep 14, 2012)

BundyBear said:


> So, it is used? Not new old stock as per your post #1? Did you know if they swapped the case? I am inclined to think that Mike may have a point (see his post #36) - the case looks like a copy of the Laco design made by Helenarou based on a few tell tale signs. Can you post clearer pictures 90 degree straight on the dial front / case back / crown side and 9 o'clock side showing the FL23883 inscription?


This was my inclination, though if Laco offered to replace the case, does that mean they verified it is real through the paperwork or serial number?


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## pa_blo05 (Feb 13, 2019)

Looks very strange to me, I also have a Laco and the surface looks different. 
You can try opening the caseback with a plastic tool. Laco applies the same sandblasting in the inner part of the case, caseback and movement holder ring. Then you will see if there is a finishing difference between the inside and outside.


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## drgk (Oct 23, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> I’ve had this watch a few months now, I’m absolutely in love with it. I wear it daily while flying and doing other duties, so it gets dinged. I noticed the case “chipping” recently and I’m very confused. Per Laco, it’s a sandblasted case with no coating. I emailed them and they confirmed there is no coating and they’ve never seen this before. They did say it had a fingerprint protection on it though.
> 
> They offered a case replacement at a discount but it’s still pretty steep considering shipping overseas. I understand it will get use so I’m not too concerned if this is normal. But I’m confused how this isn’t coated yet seems to have some type of coating coming off. Any ideas?
> View attachment 17037552


Another reason I prefer the Citizen Duratech harded finish on my eco titanium watch. Consider investing in an alternative watch?


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## GarageBoy (Oct 9, 2008)

That's a coating - steel won't delaminate unless you're forging man hole covers in a back alleyway

Sandblast is not a finish, you literally blast the steel case with an abrasive media


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

drgk said:


> Another reason I prefer the Citizen Duratech harded finish on my eco titanium watch. Consider investing in an alternative watch?


More like another reason to buy new and not second hand.


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## Dezzracer (Aug 3, 2020)

Looks like it’s 10 years old already. Inexcusable.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

For anyone not reading the entire thread and blaming this on Laco: better read the thread first.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Buramu said:


> For anyone not reading the entire thread and blaming this on Laco: better read the thread first.


+1


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Dezzracer said:


> Looks like it’s 10 years old already. Inexcusable.


It was bought second hand and was already 4 years old when OP bought it. So I‘d blame the pre-owner first.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

Skeptical said:


> This was my inclination, though if Laco offered to replace the case, does that mean they verified it is real through the paperwork or serial number?


No, knowing how accommodating they are, they probably just took the complainant’s word at face value.

I really want the OP to come back and clarify things for us. I doubt the case is an original or legit Laco product. Let him prove his point. So far, all the pictures are very strategic and we don’t see the whole watch and can’t tell if it’s a legit watch or a fake other than seeing the colour and the lug design.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

Buramu said:


> For anyone not reading the entire thread and blaming this on Laco: better read the thread first.


That’s normal here in WUS. Members read the title and jump in like Man-Karen thumping the table demanding to see the manager etc etc.


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## Ring (Sep 12, 2009)

flynavy812 said:


> Here’s another, I did this with my finger nail.
> View attachment 17038670


How do you think the case will look with all of the coating removed?


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

I was trying to avoid doing this but I’ve already mentioned several times I bought it here, so it wouldn’t really be that hard to figure it out anyways. This is where I got it. 









LACO FRIEDRICHSHAFEN TYPE B DIAL Flieger 45 #86175


Brand new, never worn. I bought this, not sure what I'd do with it. Just put it in the cabinet and I keep forgetting I have it. All original, never worn. In box with all papers. Please excuse the dust....I wasn't very attentive!




www.watchuseek.com


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

pa_blo05 said:


> Looks very strange to me, I also have a Laco and the surface looks different.
> You can try opening the caseback with a plastic tool. Laco applies the same sandblasting in the inner part of the case, caseback and movement holder ring. Then you will see if there is a finishing difference between the inside and outside.


This is smart, I might try this. I’m sure YouTube has some how to on it, I don’t want to damage anything though.


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## Mtvandi (Aug 1, 2020)

SCD said:


> Are they blasted with titanium beads? Maybe that process imparts a layer of titanium?


I don’t think that would be it. Looks like a bad refinishing or coating process, not a factory applied finish.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)




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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

What do I have to lose? I scratched the lower case as well. I don’t feel like it’s sandblasted underneath, just metal and smooth.


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## Mtvandi (Aug 1, 2020)

flynavy812 said:


> What do I have to lose? I scratched the lower case as well. I don’t feel like it’s sandblasted underneath, just metal and smooth.
> View attachment 17042013


Find a way to remove the finish coating, problem solved!


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## SpeedFreek67 (6 mo ago)

flynavy812 said:


> What do I have to lose? I scratched the lower case as well. I don’t feel like it’s sandblasted underneath, just metal and smooth.
> View attachment 17042013


The whole case *is* sandblasted. Then it has a layer of lacquer on top. It looks like the surface of the other examples shown in this thread, only with a layer of lacquer over it. I don't know why you keep saying/thinking it hasn't been sandblasted - do you know what an unblasted metal surface looks like? You can see the blasting, through the lacquer - the lacquer takes on the texture of the surface underneath.

Please do not attempt to scratch off all the lacquer, it won't look good. If it were me, I would be sending it to Laco. To DIY it would require decasing the movement, removing all the gaskets and using a chemical process in my opinion. It is one thing scratching off the lacquer that is ready to come off, but quite another to take it off where it isn't ready to come off, leaving some behind as seen on the lower case.


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## P007 (3 mo ago)

I would agree with @SpeedFreek67 that this really looks like clear coat of some kind on the steel, _*not at the factory, *_but applied after the fact since Laco does not do this. Even the watches Laco produces with coating are PVD which is bonded not coated to a metal and will not give you the flaking you see



SpeedFreek67 said:


> To my eye, that is quite clearly a clear-coat lacquer that is peeling off. Someone clear-coated that case, for sure. I have seen the exact same thing with other items that have been clear-coated or lacquered.





GarageBoy said:


> That's a coating - steel won't delaminate unless you're forging man hole covers in a back alleyway
> 
> Sandblast is not a finish, you literally blast the steel case with an abrasive media


As @GarageBoy points out, delamination isn't the issue here... And I can't really imagine how it would even be possible with a watch. Sandblasting doesn't leave anything behind. In automotive use, you sandblast parts like engine blocks to clean everything down to the bare metal, or to clean metal parts before painting them.

I'm afraid Occam's razor is useful here... In that the most simple explanation (previous owner treated watch case) is the most likely. It's really not very outlandish, and Laco is much more trustworthy and credible vs. random internet person. That, and your pictures clearly show an applied coating on top of the sandblasted case.

Is the shipping to Laco really going to cost $200 there and back? I would just take them up on the offer and enjoy the watch as it's supposed to be, and be done with it. Sucks to have the extra costs on top of your purchase, but better to make lemonade out of the situation.

Don't try and clean this yourself unless you have experience.... You will f#*$ up the watch. If a local businesses is charging less than Laco, avoid....


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## armabill (8 mo ago)

I agree that this is a coating of some kind. Once it starts, it won't stop. The seller probably didn't do it but someone who previous had it before the seller did it.

I would take up Laco's offer and have it done right. Laco might even give you a limited warranty which is not what you now have. It doesn't seem cost effective now to send it back but later on you'll be glad that you did it.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

Not to mention that it's a wonderful watch, worth owning. So I'd bite the bullet... perhaps combine it with a movement service since the watch is over 4 years old and within a year or two it would be due anyway.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

P007 said:


> I would agree with @SpeedFreek67 that this really looks like clear coat of some kind on the steel, _*not at the factory, *_but applied after the fact since Laco does not do this. Even the watches Laco produces with coating are PVD which is bonded not coated to a metal and will not give you the flaking you see
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At least 50.00 there, who knows how much back. I feel a little mislead by the original listing. Made it seem like they personally bought the watch and let it sit. But that’s not the case once I asked some questions. Live and learn I guess.


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## Ring (Sep 12, 2009)

Laco has a excellent reputation. It this was my watch I'd take Laco up on their offer. I think that once they have it in hand they may modify that offer in your favor if they deem it to be a defect. It will be like getting a new watch.


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## P007 (3 mo ago)

flynavy812 said:


> At least 50.00 there, who knows how much back. I feel a little mislead by the original listing. Made it seem like they personally bought the watch and let it sit. But that’s not the case once I asked some questions. Live and learn I guess.



Laco might get cheaper rates, so wouldn't stress since it's a small light package. 

As others have said, I don't think you will regret sending it over. They will treat you right, and are a pleasure to deal with. Once you get it back, it will be a real pleasure on your wrist!

I wear their flieger every day, no plans to get another watch for everyday use.


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## JNottoli (11 mo ago)

Hmmm....

I want one of these - I'm reading with interest.

Try a toothpick or Q-Tip with some acetone in some small spot.

Scrape at it with a wooden or nylon tool.

Does it readily come off?

I hate to join the chorus, but that seems like a coating and not some defective metal.


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## armabill (8 mo ago)

How long is the Laco's offer for? Is there a time limit on the offer?


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

armabill said:


> How long is the Laco's offer for? Is there a time limit on the offer?


Not sure, why do you ask? I’m about to go on deployment and then I immediately move. So my hesitation sending it off is dealing with address changes enroute. Plus, I just absolutely love this thing as a daily driver. But every time I look down and see the blemished areas I’m bothered. I might just send sooner rather than later and use a friends address for the return.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

JNottoli said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> I want one of these - I'm reading with interest.
> 
> ...


It comes off with light fingernail scratching from an area that’s already started. Even a fresh area can be started very easily.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Looked up those clone cases, wow! Spot on! But that leads me to my Laco case and paperwork. I have warranty card, manual, Laco straps, case, etc.


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## SCD (May 4, 2009)

I wouldn’t put acetone near a watch.


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## P007 (3 mo ago)

flynavy812 said:


> Not sure, why do you ask? I’m about to go on deployment and then I immediately move. So my hesitation sending it off is dealing with address changes enroute. Plus, I just absolutely love this thing as a daily driver. But every time I look down and see the blemished areas I’m bothered. I might just send sooner rather than later and use a friends address for the return.


 If you are in active service, I think @Laco Pforzheim will probably go a bit above normal to coordinate shipping.. And in that case sooner is always better!


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

P007 said:


> If you are in active service, I think @Laco Pforzheim will probably go a bit above normal to coordinate shipping.. And in that case sooner is always better!


Active service meaning warranty? If that’s the case then probably not. The card says something like 11/17/18 for the date. I’m pressing Laco on the issue regardless if warranty because if they truly have never seen this before, I feel it should be corrected. If it arrives and it’s deemed out of their control or is obviously tampered with I’ll pay what I need to pay and move on abit a little disgruntled with the seller here.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

P007 said:


> If you are in active service, I think @Laco Pforzheim will probably go a bit above normal to coordinate shipping.. And in that case sooner is always better!


Or did you mean active duty? Nobody said pilots were smart.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> Active service meaning warranty? If that’s the case then probably not. The card says something like 11/17/18 for the date. I’m pressing Laco on the issue regardless if warranty because if they truly have never seen this before, I feel it should be corrected. If it arrives and it’s deemed out of their control or is obviously tampered with I’ll pay what I need to pay and move on abit a little disgruntled with the seller here.


Hope it works out for you. But I saw that in an earlier post, you said you did some research on the fake cases. I hope it isn't a case of the seller replacing a damaged case on a watch you bought. It was hardly "new old stock" from proceedings here.

I believe that Laco will make you whole. Give them a chance. As Mike said, plenty of happy and lifelong customers here and I hope that they'll make you happy too.


----------



## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

BundyBear said:


> Hope it works out for you. But I saw that in an earlier post, you said you did some research on the fake cases. I hope it isn't a case of the seller replacing a damaged case on a watch you bought. It was hardly "new old stock" from proceedings here.
> 
> I believe that Laco will make you whole. Give them a chance. As Mike said, plenty of happy and lifelong customers here and I hope that they'll make you happy too.


I messaged seller a disappointed message, one I probably should have sat on before clicking send. What would you do in my shoes? I don’t think anything was intentional, he’s an established member here. But can’t help but to be very annoyed to even be in this situation. My biggest gripe is if you’re not THE original owner; don’t lead buyers to believe that. I usually mention I’m the second owner if that’s the case.

I digress, label is printed and it’s off to Germany soon. I’ll be out of touch deployed hoping for good news. Already annoyed I have to wear my old watch (that I loved for many years!)


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> I messaged seller a disappointed message, one I probably should have sat on before clicking send. What would you do in my shoes? I don’t think anything was intentional, he’s an established member here. But can’t help but to be very annoyed to even be in this situation. My biggest gripe is if you’re not THE original owner; don’t lead buyers to believe that. I usually mention I’m the second owner if that’s the case.
> 
> I digress, label is printed and it’s off to Germany soon. I’ll be out of touch deployed hoping for good news. Already annoyed I have to wear my old watch (that I loved for many years!)


I am sure with Laco, they can forward to your APO, no?

Meantime, stay safe and good luck on your deployment. All the best 👍


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

BundyBear said:


> I am sure with Laco, they can forward to your APO, no?
> 
> Meantime, stay safe and good luck on your deployment. All the best 👍


I won’t be anywhere it can arrive to if that makes sense. I’m more worried about the address change for when I move. Either way it’s in USPS hands now!


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## P007 (3 mo ago)

flynavy812 said:


> Or did you mean active duty? Nobody said pilots were smart.


Yeah, my bad.

It'll be sweet one you get it back, and can just enjoy it


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## Abouna (Jul 7, 2006)

Ugh, late to the "party"!

I'm the seller. Didn't know about this thread and it didn't occur to me to check but I'm here now.

I'll try to keep this short. Unless I've forgotten my verbage (which is possible) I never stated I was the original owner. I did state that the watch was new and never worn, which is accurate to the best of my knowledge. For the record, flynavy812 has not been accusatory or contentious.

My brother found this watch and another Laco for sale locally by a woman who had bought them for her husband. My understanding was that they had some financial troubles and needed to get rid of them and that they weren't really his cup of tea. She stated they had never been worn, just kept in the safe. Both watches came as new, with warranty cards. One of them was from Island Watch the other (this one I believe) she stated she bought directly from Laco. So we bought them and stored them. Never wore them. Simply held on to them until we were sure we wouldn't wear them (my brother wears a laco daily and has another one also, so we do have some Laco experience).

Anway, While I agree that something is off here, I find it hard to believe it's anything other than a manufacturing defect. The prospect of the original owner buying two lacos, but then altering one of them, but otherwise keeping them as new seems far-fetched. The possibility that she bought one from Island legit and the second one as some kind of fake also seems unrealistic. 

I'm in manufacturing, metals in fact (though nothing as refined as watches) and this screams defect. I may be wrong but that's what it looks like. Laco stating they don't use coatings but then stating it has an anti fingerprint coating is contradictory. Anyway, I've encouraged the OP to just send it in. If it's a manufacturing defect certainly they will fix it at no charge, or at least they should.
Even if it costs a bit he should still be well under retail for what I sold it for.


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## Ginseng108 (May 10, 2017)

If the current owner can scrape off a flaky layer with his fingernail, it's not a manufacturing defect having to do with a forged, machined steel case.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Abouna said:


> Ugh, late to the "party"!
> 
> I'm the seller. Didn't know about this thread and it didn't occur to me to check but I'm here now.
> 
> ...


The only point I argue is if it’s truly a major defect then regardless of warranty Laco should make it right (which I think they have agreed to minus shipping). Nobody should have to pay 40.00 to ship and then 300.00+ for a case for a defect and think wow well at least I still got a good deal yet had to pay to fix a major defect.


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## Abouna (Jul 7, 2006)

Ginseng108 said:


> If the current owner can scrape off a flaky layer with his fingernail, it's not a manufacturing defect having to do with a forged, machined steel case.


Unless it's a manufacturing coating defect. I can tell you one thing, blasted SS is not terribly pretty nor does it stay uniformly pretty (in fact it looks like crap if you touch it as the oils from your skin alter it's look), so I'm guessing it has something on it before they send them out the door. What that is I couldnt say.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Abouna said:


> Unless it's a manufacturing coating defect. I can tell you one thing, blasted SS is not terribly pretty nor does it stay uniformly pretty (in fact it looks like crap if you touch it as the oils from your skin alter it's look), so I'm guessing it has something on it before they send them out the door. What that is I couldnt say.


If this is true though, all watches Laco produces should be shiny like mine yeah? Did you see the others photos in here? So weird


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## Abouna (Jul 7, 2006)

flynavy812 said:


> If this is true though, all watches Laco produces should be shiny like mine yeah? Did you see the others photos in here? So weird


Not necessarily. When we do coatings, once in a while we'll get a part or peice that had something on it or wasn't prepped correctly. It doesn't mean the whole run is faulty.


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## Ginseng108 (May 10, 2017)

Abouna said:


> Not necessarily. When we do coatings, once in a while we'll get a part or peice that had something on it or wasn't prepped correctly. It doesn't mean the whole run is faulty.


Of course.

I've had my fair share of engine and exhaust parts Cerakoted and Swain coated (White Lighting) and I've worked a number of years in the paints and coatings industry so I'm familiar with prep-related coatings failures.

However, it's been established that this watch, in its original form, is _not_ a coated piece. The issue is that at some point, the knowledge that the watch was coated, thus, not original, not NOS, not unaltered, was lost from the chain of provenance. This is what the current owner is grappling with now.


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## Ginseng108 (May 10, 2017)

Abouna said:


> Ugh, late to the "party"!
> 
> I'm the seller. Didn't know about this thread and it didn't occur to me to check but I'm here now.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your side of the story.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

As much as I like my Laco, it's not a safe queen which will appreciate in value when stored unworn in a safe. This sounds like the classic "this car used to belong to an elderly lady who has never really used it"-story.


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## skuripanda (Nov 17, 2021)

flynavy812 said:


> View attachment 17041992
> 
> View attachment 17041995
> 
> ...


If this is an original Laco case without someone tampering with it, lacquering it or coating it after the fact, then I'm a monkey's uncle.

I own three sandblasted Lacos and I know they don't look that dark and glossy.
Take a look at my München (in very bright direct sunlight) and see how the case reflects zero light... Then compare it to your shots.










Here is my wife's Stuttgart Pro (again, zero reflections whatsoever):










Now, compare that to your photo of the back side... it is positively glistening, and the color looks MUCH darker than it should be as per Laco standards (which is precisely what lacquer would do, darken the original dark sandblasted texture):










Your watch has been worked on by someone who is not from Laco, and a coating has been applied to it. I would take Laco's offer for the case replacement at a discount, the only way to restore originality to this amazing watch.


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## skuripanda (Nov 17, 2021)

My wife recently dinged her Stuttgart Pro. I'll take some macros of how that looks tomorrow, just for comparison to see how a real untampered Laco case damage looks like.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

I love the quick to jump in, "I'd never buy a product from this company". One, literally one, unabashedly odd instance that baffles everyone, and the company puts out untrustworthy junk. People never cease to amaze me.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

CM HUNTER said:


> I love the quick to jump in, "I'd never buy a product from this company". One, literally one, unabashedly odd instance that baffles everyone, and the company puts out untrustworthy junk. People never cease to amaze me.


Well said. But this is a forum and since everyone can participate in the thread which unfortunately also includes those who are clueless on the product they are commenting on.


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## skuripanda (Nov 17, 2021)

Here are macro shots of the damage on my wife's watch. She banged it pretty hard on a rock wall (and she feels awful about it), but it can't be helped.

First, a normal lighting close-up, where you can see deep pitting of steel on the edge, but there is zero flaking or peeling of anything:









I used a directed spotlight to more clearly show the scrapes over the surface. As you can see, a genuine untampered Laco with a sandblasted case will, upon damage, polish or scrape off the fine granulated texture and appear brighter, shinier. Again, no peeling or flaking of anything, just a "polish" effect of a sandblasted steel surface.












In other words, the OP's watch is NOT a normal unaltered Laco and either it's not a genuine case, or (more likely) someone was being too smart for their own good and lacquered it.


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## P007 (3 mo ago)

skuripanda said:


> Here are macro shots of the damage on my wife's watch. She banged it pretty hard on a rock wall (and she feels awful about it), but it can't be helped.
> 
> First, a normal lighting close-up, where you can see deep pitting of steel on the edge, but there is zero flaking or peeling of anything:
> View attachment 17082678
> ...


I think he's got it sorted out now anyways, having sent it to Laco to refinish the case so all's well that ends well.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

P007 said:


> I think he's got it sorted out now anyways, having sent it to Laco to refinish the case so all's well that ends well.


Arrived in Germany today so we’ll see. I’m sorry, but I just can’t fathom someone coating a case. Never heard of anyone doing it, and the thought of some random old guy paying to have it done makes even less sense. But on the flip side, how could it possibly be a fake watch with all proper papers?


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

skuripanda said:


> If this is an original Laco case without someone tampering with it, lacquering it or coating it after the fact, then I'm a monkey's uncle.
> 
> I own three sandblasted Lacos and I know they don't look that dark and glossy.
> Take a look at my München (in very bright direct sunlight) and see how the case reflects zero light... Then compare it to your shots.
> ...


I don’t disagree at all but what does coating it even mean? Who can even do that work? Trying to visualize someone asking someone else to disassemble a brand new watch and coat it completely. We’ll see what Laco has to say!


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> Arrived in Germany today so we’ll see. I’m sorry, but I just can’t fathom someone coating a case. Never heard of anyone doing it, and the thought of some random old guy paying to have it done makes even less sense. But on the flip side, how could it possibly be a fake watch with all proper papers?


As the seller had in post #90 said that he was not the original owner and that he bought used and had not worn it (as far as he is aware), it could be possible that he bought it from the original owner/seller who had damaged the watch and simply swapped the case for sale. 

All said and done, water under the bridge now and I hope that Laco will make you whole again. Many Laco fans here and I have had three watches and never been disappointed with their service. When i had a query, I send an email to them and they have always been very responsive.


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## skuripanda (Nov 17, 2021)

You would be surprised what people do to their possessions to make them (in their mind) safer or prettier or both. Or what people are willing to do to get their investment back.

If the original owner, for instance, scratched the case badly, and he was inclined to resell the watch as "new old stock" or "unworn" to maximize what he can sell it for, having the watch disassembled, refinished (sandblasted) and then lacquered (because no 3rd party refinishing can restore the unique sandblasted finish of a Laco, and likely refinishing got mixed results and visible flaws and differences across the case, which lacquering might then hide)... doesn't sound like a huge stretch to me. And Laco not being common, potential buyers (even enthusiasts) often have no point of reference as to what it should look like, unless they've seen and handled a sandblasted Laco before (case in point: both you and the WUS guy who sold it to you were none the wiser, it would appear).

And I am always skeptical of any stories of "the original owner being this old guy / lady / grandfather who never wore it". Laco is quite niche and isn't readily available in Walmart, nor does it have ADs in every city like mainstream brands do, so anyone buying it (as the original first buyer) does it with thought and deliberation.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Box arrived to Laco. Empty. My watch is now gone forever, and I’m out 1000.00. Awesome.


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## P007 (3 mo ago)

flynavy812 said:


> Box arrived to Laco. Empty. My watch is now gone forever, and I’m out 1000.00. Awesome.


Whaaaaaaat? Was there damage to the package? There should be some coverage from the shipping company, no?


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## skuripanda (Nov 17, 2021)

Was the package not insured with the shipping company? DHL, FedEx, UPS usually have 500 dollar insurance standard, and you can add insurance up to the full value for more expensive packages for a moderate fee.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

USPS, I said it was worth 1300.00 per requirements. Now I’m reading it requires an invoice and maybe a 500.00 limit for Germany import. Which makes no sense unless I’m missing something.


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## skuripanda (Nov 17, 2021)

If you have proof of payment (paypal payment confirmation) for the watch, that should be enough? Although USPS might try and deny the claim... nothing to do but fight.
But shipping a 1300 dollar watch via USPS doesn't ever sound like a good or safe choice, I've heard way too many stories similar to this.


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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

Forgive me if I missed some pertinent details in this long, circuitous saga but once the case was revealed to be inauthentic, the watch should have gone back to the seller for a full refund.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

It was 


LosAngelesTimer said:


> Forgive me if I missed some pertinent details in this long, circuitous saga but once the case was revealed to be inauthentic, the watch should have gone back to the seller for a full refund.


It wasn’t revealed as a fake


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## drdas007 (Oct 2, 2012)

flynavy812 said:


> Box arrived to Laco. Empty. My watch is now gone forever, and I’m out 1000.00. Awesome.


You've got to be kidding me. WTF. I'm sorry dude...


----------



## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

flynavy812 said:


> It was
> 
> It wasn’t revealed as a fake


Poor choice of words on my part.

How about the reveal that the case had been tampered with, despite what the seller claimed in their ad?

Again, that should provide legitimate cause for return and refund. It doesn’t matter if the seller was unaware.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> Poor choice of words on my part.
> 
> How about the reveal that the case had been tampered with, despite what the seller claimed in their ad?
> 
> Again, that should provide legitimate cause for return and refund. It doesn’t matter if the seller was unaware.


I don’t disagree with you at all. What can I do now? Whole experience left a terrible taste. I just want a big ass flieger and not sure if I’ll just buy a new Laco at this point.


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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

flynavy812 said:


> I don’t disagree with you at all. What can I do now? Whole experience left a terrible taste. I just want a big ass flieger and not sure if I’ll just buy a new Laco at this point.


I don’t mean to kick you while you’re down, this is a crappy situation. I’m just not sure why you didn’t insist on a refund when the issue came to light.

The seller could’ve behaved a bit more responsibly. Doing the right thing is occasionally lost on some folks.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> I don’t mean to kick you while you’re down, this is a crappy situation. I’m just not sure why you didn’t insist on a refund when the issue came to light.
> 
> The seller could’ve behaved a bit more responsibly. Doing the right thing is occasionally lost on some folks.


The seller is Abouna and he posted in post #90 in the previous page. Honestly, i think too long has lapsed for anything to be done other than OP treating this as a hard lesson learnt.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> USPS, I said it was worth 1300.00 per requirements. Now I’m reading it requires an invoice and maybe a 500.00 limit for Germany import. Which makes no sense unless I’m missing something.


Not saying you're wrong, but why did you declare it as a $1,300 when it's already a few years old and a used watch? Couldn't you have put down what is the current market value for a watch of that age?


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> Box arrived to Laco. Empty. My watch is now gone forever, and I’m out 1000.00. Awesome.


This is simply mind boggling. How in the world did this happen?

I feel your pain....


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

BundyBear said:


> Not saying you're wrong, but why did you declare it as a $1,300 when it's already a few years old and a used watch? Couldn't you have put down what is the current market value for a watch of that age?


I was under the impression I had to declare retail value as to not screw Laco on import stuff, I don’t ship international ever.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> I was under the impression I had to declare retail value as to not screw Laco on import stuff, I don’t ship international ever.


I don't think that's how it works but I don't know US or EU rules. I have had watches sent back to factory which I state as "no commercial value - defective watch sent back for repairs" and that seems to work for me both ways and I didn't get slugged for import duties both ways. Otherwise, if you declared a value and if customs were to impose a duty on the product, you would have paid tax twice on the same thing.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> I was under the impression I had to declare retail value as to not screw Laco on import stuff, I don’t ship international ever.


But it just sucks. 100% sucks. Your situation. Feel so bad for you.


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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

BundyBear said:


> The seller is Abouna and he posted in post #90 in the previous page. Honestly, i think too long has lapsed for anything to be done other than OP treating this as a hard lesson learnt.


I’m aware of their post but I’m not especially impressed by the content of their response.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

BundyBear said:


> The seller is Abouna and he posted in post #90 in the previous page. Honestly, i think too long has lapsed for anything to be done other than OP treating this as a hard lesson learnt.


Not trying to sound like a jerk but what lesson is that? Seller had a good rep and all looked good to me. 


BundyBear said:


> But it just sucks. 100% sucks. Your situation. Feel so bad for you.


Trust me I’m crushed. I LOVED that watch and got many compliments. I’m just torn on what to do now. And I’m in the middle of a very stressful military move, I just feel defeated.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> Not trying to sound like a jerk but what lesson is that? Seller had a good rep and all looked good to me.


I dunno. Maybe, why pay $1,000 (*) for a used 4 year old watch from a seller who is the second owner when you can buy direct from Laco at around the same price, new, and with warranty?

(*) price based on the $1,000 you quoted but I don't know the actual price you paid.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

BundyBear said:


> I dunno. Maybe, why pay $1,000 (*) for a used 4 year old watch from a seller who is the second owner when you can buy direct from Laco at around the same price, new, and with warranty?
> 
> (*) price based on the $1,000 you quoted but I don't know the actual price you paid.


I think I paid 950 ish, new is 1350.00. 400.00 savings for a seemingly brand new watch seemed like a steal! Anyone know of any good retailers that have a good military discount?


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> I’m aware of their post but I’m not especially impressed by the content of their response.


Neither was I. I thought the seller was happy to wash his hands off the watch and put it down to a manufacturing defect. 

I guess that the watch is now lost, and, we will never know if it was truly a manufacturing defect or a fake case (looked like a Helenarou copy case) retrofitted into a real Laco (evidence from the old warranty card).


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

BundyBear said:


> Neither was I. I thought the seller was happy to wash his hands off the watch and put it down to a manufacturing defect.
> 
> I guess that the watch is now lost, and, we will never know if it was truly a manufacturing defect or a fake case (looked like a Helenarou copy case) retrofitted into a real Laco (evidence from the old warranty card).


Not knowing the answer is killing me.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

flynavy812 said:


> I think I paid 950 ish, new is 1350.00. 400.00 savings for a seemingly brand new watch seemed like a steal! Anyone know of any good retailers that have a good military discount?


Honestly, $950 is not a steal for a 4 year old watch. I don't know how the seller can price a 4 year old watch for that price. I would gladly pay the full price and buy from an AD and get the warranty. That $400 you saved translated into a nightmare that is not worth the time and effort. Maybe that is the lesson learnt?


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

BundyBear said:


> Honestly, $950 is not a steal for a 4 year old watch. I don't know how the seller can price a 4 year old watch for that price. I would gladly pay the full price and buy from an AD and get the warranty. That $400 you saved translated into a nightmare that is not worth the time and effort. Maybe that is the lesson learnt?


Sure, I’m not a major watch enthusiast, just saw a watch I liked and what appeared to be a good deal. **** me I guess.


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## skuripanda (Nov 17, 2021)

This truly has become the ultimate case of Murphy's law: everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

The lessons everyone should take to heart here should be:
Don't trust anyone and do your research, and don't buy a watch model you're not familiar with, or you can get a non-genuine watch and pay full price for it....
And don't ship a $1000+ item by regular mail without full insurance. DHL would charge you 10 bucks for full insurance (on top of express shipping). Better to pay 50 or 60 dollars for postage and have peace of mind.



BundyBear said:


> I don't think that's how it works but I don't know US or EU rules. I have had watches sent back to factory which I state as "no commercial value - defective watch sent back for repairs" and that seems to work for me both ways and I didn't get slugged for import duties both ways. Otherwise, if you declared a value and if customs were to impose a duty on the product, you would have paid tax twice on the same thing.


You don't pay import taxes for "temporary export" shipments, which sending for repair most certainly is. There are some fees involved with proper temporary export paperwork, but no taxes. 
In the end, it's better to pay a few bucks more to have an expensive watch fully insured, than skimping on postage and risking this worst case scenario.
And it's best to ask the company-factory you're shipping to for service, how to ship and which delivery company they recommend, as they will likely have the experience and be able to tell you how to ship safely and legally.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

skuripanda said:


> This truly has become the ultimate case of Murphy's law: everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.
> 
> The lessons everyone should take to heart here should be:
> Don't trust anyone and do your research, and don't buy a watch model you're not familiar with, or you can get a non-genuine watch and pay full price for it....
> ...


All good points, I don’t think I got a quote with DHL. I know FedEx and UPS was 150.00+ before insurwnce though.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Anyone know a dealer with a military discount?
I think I’d like the same watch, it goes for 1350.00.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

flynavy812 said:


> Anyone know a dealer with a military discount?
> I think I’d like the same watch, it goes for 1350.00.


Watchmann has them for 1190. He's great to deal with and may offer you a discount.


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## Marmaduke (Dec 27, 2021)

That looks like a clear anodizing on aluminum.

EDIT- wow I’m late to the party. Sorry guys.


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## Abouna (Jul 7, 2006)

OK, I'm back. For some reason I get zero notifications even though I have my account set to get them.

Sounds like everything has gone wrong with this. For the record:


I'm not a watch salesman or a flipper. I've sold almost nothing here but I have been a member for a very long time
the sale was not $950, it was $825 shipping included. Not sure why Jake said otherwise.
it had papers, it had all contents and original box
it showed ZERO signs of ever having been worn
I bought it from a woman who also sold me another Laco she had bought from Marc at Island Watch (papers included). This one she says she bought direct from Laco and the paperwork looked legit to me
I'm not a collector. I own and wear 1 watch (a Christopher Ward). Before that I owned an SKX173 which I have since handed down to my daughter. I'm illustrating that I don;t go through watches and then resell them. That said, my brother owns 2-3 Lacos, I have a decent idea of what they look like and the build.

There was nothing to suggest this watch was anything other than what it seemed, if there were I would not have bought or sold it. I only did so because both myself and brother thought we might wear these. We did not. 

I couldn't be more sorry for Jake but it's certainly not my fault nor is the postage mishandling. Furthermore, there is no way he shouldn't be able to make a valid claim for this loss. He can show proof of purchase AND show current retail. 

As a long time member here I'm not thrilled with this situation or the various innuendos that there was something nefarious going on with the sale. Nor do I think I should have felt compelled to take the watch back after Jake reported loving the watch on August 10th and then reported the flaking issue on Nov. 15th. That's over 3 months of wear time. I have a fairly strong conscience but this isn't tweaking it.

I'll do anything I can to help though.


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## skuripanda (Nov 17, 2021)

Abouna said:


> That said, my brother owns 2-3 Lacos, I have a decent idea of what they look like and the build.


It is hard to fathom that with experience with Laco watches, you wouldn't immediately recognize what so many here have instantly seen from the photos: that the dark sandblasted finish of this watch was off, both in tone (darker than usual) and in glossiness (too glossy to match the original Laco matte finish).

However, Laco produces many different watches, and many of them do NOT come with the sandblasted finish, so not knowing which Lacos your brother owns, there's a perfectly reasonable chance he's only owned the Basic Fliegers (brushed steel finish).
But if your brother has a sandblasted Laco, and he has seen this watch... then you'll forgive the community of being... skeptical... for seeing something that obviously doesn't match what we know a Laco should be.


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## Al.Macrest (Mar 24, 2011)

flynavy812 said:


> Box arrived to Laco. Empty. My watch is now gone forever, and I’m out 1000.00. Awesome.


I'm really sorry to hear that. A good watch should bring you happiness, not the pain / stress / time-suck that this odyssey represents.

There are a lot of overseas watches that I like, but I won't buy one that I can't obtain and service through an AD in the states because I don't want to deal with overseas shipping / import / export issues. And when it comes to servicing, it's a matter of risk control for me. If I take the watch to an AD for service, it's on them if they lose it. In the case of my Rolex, I absolutely don't want to lose it because of sentimental value (we've been through a lot together) so when it was time for servicing, I hand-carried it to the service center even though it was several hundred miles from me. I mention these things in case it helps you in thinking about future purchases.

And, thank you for your service.


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

so weird. looks poorly coated and flaking off especially at 15 *as if *it were done with some kind of varnish (but it's not varnish for sure).. i also see the coating on the crown is coming off too.
i'd have it sandblasted by someone else (shouldn't be more than100 to $150). the process would still cheaper ( even if it kills the resale value) than sending it to Laco for a Case replacement..
best of luck


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Tony A.H said:


> so weird. looks poorly coated and flaking off especially at 15 *as if *it were done with some kind of varnish (but it's not varnish for sure).. i also see the coating on the crown is coming off too.
> i'd have it sandblasted by someone else (shouldn't be more than100 to $150). the process would still cheaper ( even if it kills the resale value) than sending it to Laco for a Case replacement..
> best of luck


The watch got lost on its way to Laco, post #109. Your suggestion is a little late.


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

StufflerMike said:


> The watch got lost on its way to Laco, post #109. Your suggestion is a little late.


never late. someone else will benefit from the idea.
to the OP. i'm sorry the watch was lost.


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## whiskeymuscles (Jul 7, 2020)

I'm sorry that your watch was stolen in the mail. I once sent a watch to Laco for an exchange through USPS and it took almost three months to get there. Tracking had stopped and no one could tell me anything. I thought for sure it had been stolen/lost and the feeling is awful.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Update, I’m back with a new Laco. Through another frustrating experience but I digress. Major lessons learned all around.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Abouna said:


> OK, I'm back. For some reason I get zero notifications even though I have my account set to get them.
> 
> Sounds like everything has gone wrong with this. For the record:
> 
> ...


I too am late seeing this reply. It’s water under the bridge. USPS has already reviewed and closed my claim. Not sure where the 950/825 mixup is, but that’s a pretty eh fact.

Laco doesn’t coat watches, that’s all I know. And now I’ll never know what the heck was wrong with the watch. The timeline between me loving the watch and reporting chipping is also irrelevant considering there should be nothing to chip. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make there.
I’m frustrated all around as I think you would be too, but I’ve also come away with a few valuable lessons. I have a new Laco on my wrist finally (and it’s not shiny and smooth or whatever the hell was on the last one).

I almost wish you could contact that old couple for the sake of closure and find out the full story.


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## Abouna (Jul 7, 2006)

flynavy812 said:


> I too am late seeing this reply. It’s water under the bridge. USPS has already reviewed and closed my claim. Not sure where the 950/825 mixup is, but that’s a pretty eh fact.
> 
> Laco doesn’t coat watches, that’s all I know. And now I’ll never know what the heck was wrong with the watch. The timeline between me loving the watch and reporting chipping is also irrelevant considering there should be nothing to chip. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make there.
> I’m frustrated all around as I think you would be too, but I’ve also come away with a few valuable lessons. I have a new Laco on my wrist finally (and it’s not shiny and smooth or whatever the hell was on the last one).
> ...


The amount of time is important because no one, no matter how ethical (and at the risk of sounding my own brass, I always take a hit before I do the wrong thing. Doing the right thing trumps money every time), takes back something after 4 months. I would like to but I'm really in the same boat as you. Plus now, it's a moot point.

As far as USPS goes, if you don;t fight them then I don't know what to say. Our company is direct sales only, I have to deal with USPS and UPS all the time. If you don;t push back they will streamroll you. I don;t think it's right being robbed of something you paid to have insured.


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## skuripanda (Nov 17, 2021)

I feel for you, and I hope your new Laco will bring you more joy... Don't let yourself sour the enjoyment of your new watch by seeing it as a reminder of this dreadful experience. It's an amazing watch, after all, and I am sure you will be happy with yours just like so many of us here who enjoy our Lacos.

And do post pictures in the "show my Laco" thread, always fun to see them in action.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Abouna said:


> The amount of time is important because no one, no matter how ethical (and at the risk of sounding my own brass, I always take a hit before I do the wrong thing. Doing the right thing trumps money every time), takes back something after 4 months. I would like to but I'm really in the same boat as you. Plus now, it's a moot point.
> 
> As far as USPS goes, if you don;t fight them then I don't know what to say. Our company is direct sales only, I have to deal with USPS and UPS all the time. If you don;t push back they will streamroll you. I don;t think it's right being robbed of something you paid to have insured.


For what it’s worth and I hope this didn’t seem this way… me reaching out to you was NOT me trying to send back or money grab. I was simply stunned and didn’t know what to do. If I wanted to send it back or ask for money, I don’t think I’d spend my own funds to ship it to Germany. Just wanted to clear that up.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

Abouna said:


> The amount of time is important because no one, no matter how ethical (and at the risk of sounding my own brass, I always take a hit before I do the wrong thing. Doing the right thing trumps money every time), takes back something after 4 months. I would like to but I'm really in the same boat as you. Plus now, it's a moot point.
> 
> As far as USPS goes, if you don;t fight them then I don't know what to say. Our company is direct sales only, I have to deal with USPS and UPS all the time. If you don;t push back they will streamroll you. I don;t think it's right being robbed of something you paid to have insured.


I’ll try. But turns out max insurance for Germany is 500.00, another lesson learned.


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## Abouna (Jul 7, 2006)

flynavy812 said:


> For what it’s worth and I hope this didn’t seem this way…


No I didn't think that. Just want to keep things clear for everyone.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

If you look up "Hruodland Flieger" on Google you'll find "homages" which are essentially Laco knockoffs, and from the images it looks like they have a similar sort of glossy sheen as the one in this thread. It's not improbable that they also make full-on counterfeit casebacks (all they need to do is change the name in the engraved table on the back).


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## watchobserver (Oct 28, 2021)

flynavy812 said:


> I’ll try. But turns out max insurance for Germany is 500.00, another lesson learned.


Can confirm. I had to ship my watch to them (Germany to Germany) to correct for a minor issue (lume not homogeneously applied to minute hand) and insured shipping is almost not existing. Some carriers even specify that watches are excluded from warranty claims. It was almost easier for me to drive to them.


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## skuripanda (Nov 17, 2021)

watchobserver said:


> Can confirm. I had to ship my watch to them (Germany to Germany) to correct for a minor issue (lume not homogeneously applied to minute hand) and insured shipping is almost not existing. Some carriers even specify that watches are excluded from warranty claims. It was almost easier for me to drive to them.


When my München arrived originally with the wrong day disc (german, when I ordered it english), Laco themselves organized the shipping via FedEx, arranged the pick-up and just sent me the shipping label to print, so I didn't have worries about it and any insurance would be theirs to cover (and claim if something happened), and I had the peace of mind that I'd get my watch back.

Luckily, I haven't had the need to ship to them myself so far. And when the need arose that Laco had to service my watch, I was able to wait a bit and hand the watch to my acquaintances at Laco in person when we met at events in Germany.

But DHL does have services that include the possibility to insure for the full amount (you pay about 1% of the item value, if I recall correctly). I can't confirm nor deny if watches are excluded from that, but the company I work for has shipped art from Europe to USA (and back), and to the Middle East, and we were always able to insure even packages worth 20k and more.


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## P007 (3 mo ago)

flynavy812 said:


> Update, I’m back with a new Laco. Through another frustrating experience but I digress. Major lessons learned all around.


what did you end up getting?

Also had some money wastage in the past, not with watches but headphones....so get what you're feeling.


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## flynavy812 (Nov 25, 2014)

P007 said:


> what did you end up getting?
> 
> Also had some money wastage in the past, not with watches but headphones....so get what you're feeling.


The exact same model!


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## P007 (3 mo ago)

flynavy812 said:


> The exact same model!


Nice! Now at least you can just enjoy, and don't have to think about watches other than the one on your wrist


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