# Buying a Seagull 1963 - My experience



## adamdj (May 18, 2018)

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I had a remarkable experience buying a Seagull 1963 and thought it would be helpful to share.

For months I've been bidding on Seagull 1963s on eBay or trying to buy one in the forums. Either the bidding would get higher than I wanted to pay, or I'd be late to the forum post and it would already be gone. I didn't want to pay the $350 Long Island Watch is offering as I knew there are better deals out there, but I was tired of being patient.

Late one night after a couple of hours of searching, I stumbled on a forum post (not on watchuseek) that mentioned a guy named Thomas who lived in China that sold Seagull watches. It listed his gmail address, but the post was over 3 years old. On a whim, I sent him a message not expecting to ever hear back, but sure enough he responded! We sent several emails back and forth and he always responded almost immediately. I was thrilled to find out he still sells watches. He even had the white/black panda version I'd been wanting...score! All models were $230 + shipping. I wanted the expedited shipping, so the total would be $268. That's how much I usually see used models go for. I was thrilled!

It was at that point where I thought "wait...am I really going to send $268 to someone when all I really know about them is their gmail address I found on a very old forum post???" It could very easily be a scam, but he accepted PayPal so I figured worst case scenario I could fight with PayPal to get my money back. So I told him the model and shipping I wanted and sent him the money. That was on Monday night.

Now, I've ordered plenty of things from China and I always plan on 2 weeks before I see anything, even with expedited shipping, but wouldn't you know it...my watch arrived Thursday morning!! It blew. my. mind. Ordered late Monday and got the watch early Thursday. I don't even usually get that kind of speed/service from US companies!

I've posted pictures of my watch below. I LOVE it. And for the price I paid I am blown away by the quality. Is it a Rolex/Omega? Of course not. But for $268 I can't imagine anything better.

Good luck all!


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## Velez84 (Jul 6, 2018)

That’s awesome that you were able to get it for such a great price. Risks pay off sometimes. Hope you enjoy it for a long time.


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## pokerknight (Sep 9, 2017)

I've been eyeing these watches on Long Island Watch for a few weeks now. They're down to $299 as of right now.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that watch was not made by Tianjin Seagull Factory. 
It is a "reproduction" that was made in Guangdong. I just talked to an AD here in China and sent him photos of this and a few other website's version of the Seagull 1963.
My point:
Don't expect Seagull quality from a "reproduction" (edited)


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Nice catch. If I recall correctly, Thomas was the designer of this oversize version, which was also the first to be offered in a 'panda' dial version. So it is a '1963' but it is not actually a 'Sea-Gull'. (Now somebody remind me whether this watch was made while Thomas was with Sea-Gull's Hong Kong office, or was it after he set up his own firm?)


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Chascomm said:


> Nice catch. If i recall correctly, Thomas was the designer of this oversize version, which was also the first to be offered in a 'panda' dial version. So it is a '1963' but it is not actually a 'Sea-Gull'. (Now somebody remind me whether this watch was made while Thomas with Sea-Gull's Hong Kong office, or was it after he set up his own firm?)


Thanks for the information about these 1963s. I have been trying to track down information on these non-Seagull 1963s, but it has been difficult. 
I have had a Seagull AD tell me these were produced in Guangdong, which is very close to HK.
Do you know if Thomas had watches produced in Guangdong?


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Hopefully hked will chip in with the correct details, but from memory, Thomas's factory is located in Hong Kong. However I don't know whether Sea-Gull Hong Kong (who do a lot of Sea-Gull's OEM work) outsource to Guangdong companies. I would not be at all surprised if the 1963 case is actually made by another company for Sea-Gull (and anybody else who wants it).


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## liangliangyu (Nov 22, 2013)

At this price point this watch is simply awesome!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Chascomm said:


> Hopefully hked will chip in with the correct details, but from memory, Thomas's factory is located in Hong Kong. However I don't know whether Sea-Gull Hong Kong (who do a lot of Sea-Gull's OEM work) outsource to Guangdong companies. I would not be at all surprised if the 1963 case is actually made by another company for Sea-Gull (and anybody else who wants it).


I am not aware of this, but the Seagull AD I talked to this morning called these "fakes"; although that seems to be the incorrect word as they have Seagull 1963 in the listing title but not Seagull on the dial/ case back or crown.
I think of a fake as something that is duplicating a real item, and includes putting the name brand on the item. That is not the case here.

I think the word replica or reproduction would better suit what these watches are as these reproductions don't have the words Seagull or Tianjin Seagull Factory on them at all. 
(The authentic Tianjin Seagull 1963's will say Seagull on their case backs.) 
I believe that is how the distributors/sellers are get away with selling these watches in China and outside the mainland. I am still doing some investigating, but these non-Seagull 1963's are hard to research.


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## Russel88 (Nov 28, 2018)

Interesting. So the ones sold by Thomas are not real Sea-Gulls. Does this also count for the ones sold by Hked?


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## adamdj (May 18, 2018)

To be frank, I don't care much if it is a true Seagull or a reproduction/replica/fake. It was the design and the price point that interested me most.

But it does beg the question...what movement is in my watch? Is it still an ST19? Or something different entirely?


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## adamdj (May 18, 2018)

Also, I'd be curious to learn what he saw in the pictures that was the dead giveaway that it was a 'fake'. Comparing mine to the pictures on Long Island Watch, they are identical. Is this a situation where the factory makes some extra 'unauthorized' units and sells them through other channels?


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

adamdj said:


> To be frank, I don't care much if it is a true Seagull or a reproduction/replica/fake. It was the design and the price point that interested me most.


First, these are not fakes, these are replicas/reproductions made by someone else in another factory in another part of China. 
Second, I understand that you might not care, but..
The issue with buying a non-authentic Tianjin Seagull watch is lack of a factory warranty, questionable QC and questionable build quality. Another member recently bought a non-Seagull version of the 1963 and is already experiencing issues. 
As found here: https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/seagull-1963-please-help-adjustment-required-4858459.html



adamdj said:


> Also, I'd be curious to learn what he saw in the pictures that was the dead giveaway that it was a 'fake'. Comparing mine to the pictures on Long Island Watch, they are identical. Is this a situation where the factory makes some extra 'unauthorized' units and sells them through other channels?


Seagull doesn't make "unauthorized" units. These replicas are made by someone else at a factory in Guangdong, China.

FYI, I sent a link to LIW's Seagull 1963 to the Seagull AD I was talking to and he told me that those watches didn't come from Tianjin Seagull Factory either. Those are the replica/reproduction versions from Guangdong.

Also, did you notice on LIW's website how he has a section for "Seagull" and a different section for "Seagull 1963"?

I think there is a reason he is separating this watch from his other Seagull watches because these aren't authentic Tianjin Seagull watches.
He labels these watches exactly like all the other sellers that are selling non-authentic Tianjin Seagull 1963 304's.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

adamdj said:


> But it does beg the question...what movement is in my watch? Is it still an ST19? Or something different entirely?


So long as your watch is powered by a hand-winding mechanical chronograph movement, then it is a Sea-Gull ST19 movement. There is simply no alternative available.


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## HoustonReal (Dec 29, 2013)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Thanks for the information about these 1963s. I have been trying to track down information on these non-Seagull 1963s, but it has been difficult.
> I have had a Seagull AD tell me these were produced in Guangdong, which is very close to HK.
> Do you know if Thomas had watches produced in Guangdong?


Guangdong (formerly Canton) is the Southern province closest to Hong Kong and Macau, and includes Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Nansha, Huizhou and many smaller cities and villages. Tianjin (Sea-Gull) is very close to Beijing, but the bulk of Chinese watch production is centered in and around Shenzhen, especially OEM and replica manufacturers. Guangzhou also has a healthy watch industry, being the home of Dixmont and SKMEI.

I've often wondered if the "Special Edition" Sea-Gull watches (Aqua Terra, Cocktail Time, etc.) sold by Sea-Gull Singapore are genuine, or similar reproductions made by an OEM. Their Aqua Terras look like some mushroom brand versions, and it's simple to substitute an ST16 for a DG2813, since they are virtually interchangeable.


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## liangliangyu (Nov 22, 2013)

That is so true, there can be many replicas not built by official Seagull factory although movement comes from same source. When there is market demand, there is always people try to take advantage of this business opportunity.


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## HoustonReal (Dec 29, 2013)

adamdj said:


> To be frank, I don't care much if it is a true Seagull or a reproduction/replica/fake. It was the design and the price point that interested me most.
> 
> But it does beg the question...what movement is in my watch? Is it still an ST19? Or something different entirely?


If price is your primary concern, Times International has the 42mm Pandas for only $229, along with other 37.5mm and 42mm versions. They all have display backs, which seems to indicate they are not real Sea-Gulls?


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## ronkatct (Sep 27, 2018)

For my information and possible future purchase, are the Seagulls in Long Island from the Seagull factory in Beijing or clones/reproductions from Guangdong? I like Pandas but have little need for a chronograph, but may eventually get a higher end Chinese watch than the Winners, Forsinings, Corgeuts, Benyars, Guanjins, Cardisens etc. that I have. And I would prefer a nice metal back with some ornamentation than a display caseback. Seagull also make old Rolleiflex type cameras :-d


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## Danfried (Aug 27, 2016)

I'm going to use "Seagull 1963" to refer to all the watches that are based on one of the original Project 304 PROTOTYPES like the one below:









In other words, NOT the reissue based on the actual production model:









I think in the original Youtube video where Marc of Long Island Watches introduces the Seagull 1963 he states that they were made by Seagull, but in later videos AFTER he became a Sea-Gull AD (in 2017) I think he clearly states that the 1963's he sells are made by Red Star Watches.

I've read a LOT of the old Seagull 1963 threads on Watchuseek. It seems pretty clear from those old threads that what we now call the Seagull 1963 reissue was not originally a Tianjin Sea-Gull project; it was actually commissioned by a Sea-Gull "subsidiary", Hong Kong's Tsinlien Sea Gull, and came out in 2005 or 2006. I also think HKEd has said that the later official Tianjin Sea-Gull 1963 reissues (e.g. those sold by seagullwatchstore.com) were not actually made at the Tianjin watch factory but were contracted out.

I suspect that the version that Monkey_like_watch posted in his thread "Authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory- Seagull 1963 304 watches" might be the first version to actually be made by Tianjin Sea-Gull. That's because it's the first version I've seen that has an actual Sea-Gull reference number (819.17.1963) on the caseback! I also suspect it has been released fairly recently, since no others have turned up here previously on Watchuseek.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Hello all.

I posted this in my other thread about the 304, but I want to share it here too.
I found an old thread from AlbertaTime here: https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/albe...h-clock-collectors-private-museum-861261.html

Two photos of interest:

WUS member gigfy identifies these watches as original 1960's.









These two below are identified as the "Modern 1963 re-issue and Tianjin Sea-Gull D304 re-issue"









So it would appear that the Modern 1963(on the left) isn't a Tianjin Seagull, but the watch on the right is a Tianjin Seagull.

Most notable on the Modern 1963 example in the museum is the different indices from the HK version(which has "cut out" indices centers). 
Seen here:
My Seagull 1963 buying adventure - TickTickTickTick

Also, although the HK version has similar dial arrangement with small hand on the left and big hand on the right, it looks different than the other 1963's that have it popped up with the small hands flipped. 
As seen here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/cool-strap-option-seagull-1963-a-4867265.html


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Danfried said:


> I'm going to use "Seagull 1963" to refer to all the watches that are based on one of the original Project 304 PROTOTYPES like the one below:
> 
> View attachment 13797401
> 
> ...


I am not trying to fight you here, but I want to know where you got the evidence that one is a prototype and one is the production model, please.

Also, look at these watches that were sold in China. It looks like there was a Tianjin version and a Tainjin Wuyi version of the 304:

Tianjin Wuyi version:
Ìì½òÎåÒ»ÊÖ±í³§º½¿Õ±í£¨304£©_ÊÖ±í/Íó±í_±íÀïÍ¬Ò»¡¾7788ÊÕ²Ø__ÖÐ¹úÊÕ²ØÈÈÏß¡¿

Tianjin version:
È«ÍøÉÙ¼û¡£¡£304Ìì½òº½Ìì¼ÆÊ±Âë±í-ÊÖ±í/Íó±í-ÁãÊÛ-7788ÖÓ±íÊÕ²Ø


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## Danfried (Aug 27, 2016)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> I am not trying to fight you here, but I want to know where you got the evidence that one is a prototype and one is the production model, please.


It was several years ago that I read about the "Seagull 1963" design being based on a Project 304 prototype, so I had to Google it to try and find an authoritative source.

Li Wei is a Chinese collector and one of the most authoritative sources I could find (he has actual originals, not just reissues), and states that the watches made in the year 1963 were prototypes. Serial production didn't begin until 1966. It looks like HKEd's versions are based on at least one of Li Wei's examples:

A Historical Perspective: China's First Chronograph ? East Watch Review

I think my other source (and the source for the idea that Sea-Gull's D304 is based on the production version) was cuthbert's review of the D304:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f67/seagull-d304-review-lot-bad-pics-pedantic-historic-notes-4199250.html

EDIT: Note that it wouldn't surprise me if all our English language sources turn out to be wrong! The history of even famous Swiss watches gets muddled up with marketing claims, e.g. that Sir Edmund Hillary wore a Rolex Explorer up Mount Everest (a model that didn't exist yet), so it wouldn't surprise me if we get the history of a more obscure watch wrong. (AFAIK Hillary made separate claims that he "carried" both a Rolex AND a Smiths to the top! Perhaps he wanted to get remuneration from both watch companies!)


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Thanks, Danfried.


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## Bucks (Mar 7, 2016)

I've been following this thread with interest. I just wish the Chinese were more transparent about where the various watches were made. It seems such an imposition to try and uncover which dealers actually have genuine Seagull watches. I hope this issue of authenticity is isolated to the 1963. I had always thought that price was a reasonable guide as to whether a Seagull is genuine or not. I love Seagull watches and would pay extra to know that they came from the Tianjin factory as these watches I believe could possibly outlast me and are definitely worth the extra coin!


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Bucks said:


> I've been following this thread with interest. I just wish the Chinese were more transparent about where the various watches were made. It seems such an imposition to try and uncover which dealers actually have genuine Seagull watches. I hope this issue of authenticity is isolated to the 1963. I had always thought that price was a reasonable guide as to whether a Seagull is genuine or not. I love Seagull watches and would pay extra to know that they came from the Tianjin factory as these watches I believe could possibly outlast me and are definitely worth the extra coin!


I agree.

There are a few options for you to get a real Seagull. One would be to go to an official Seagull Tmall store, and then find a Tmall agent to ship to you. I don't know how much this costs, but I have heard of people outside China going this route. 
Official Seagull store on Tmall:
https://seagull.tmall.com/?spm=a1z10.3-b-s.w13956128-14910048201.3.573756cd13UsLr&scene=taobao_shop

Another option is to sign up on JD.com. I just did a search for "deliverable worldwide" and both official Seagull stores came up. That means you can buy direct from Seagull and have it shipped to you worldwide while getting the Chinese price of the watches. 
You will need to automatically translate the pages using something like Google Chrome's auto-translate option in the settings, so you can read the listings.

Here are the two official Seagull stores on JD.com:

https://mall.jd.com/index-1000002794.html

https://mall.jd.com/index-1000002721.html

If you need any help setting up your JingDong account just PM. Or any other help with translation or questions, I would be happy to help you or any other member. 
I am curious how easy/or hard it is to get something shipped international from JD.com

The final route is to go through Kevin on AliX. He is an authorized Seagull dealer. I have never purchased from him because I can't buy things off Alix in China but two other members have purchased authentic Seagulls from him.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gr...html?spm=2114.12010615.pcShopHead_6110206.1_0

I hope this will help you and other members.


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## hked (Oct 5, 2009)

Chascomm said:


> Hopefully hked will chip in with the correct details, but from memory, Thomas's factory is located in Hong Kong. However I don't know whether Sea-Gull Hong Kong (who do a lot of Sea-Gull's OEM work) outsource to Guangdong companies. I would not be at all surprised if the 1963 case is actually made by another company for Sea-Gull (and anybody else who wants it).


Thomas's factory is located in Shenzhen and his ST1901 movements are sourced directly from Sea-Gull Tianjin.


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## hked (Oct 5, 2009)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> I am not aware of this, but the Seagull AD I talked to this morning called these "fakes"; although that seems to be the incorrect word as they have Seagull 1963 in the listing title but not Seagull on the dial/ case back or crown.
> I think of a fake as something that is duplicating a real item, and includes putting the name brand on the item. That is not the case here.
> 
> I think the word replica or reproduction would better suit what these watches are as these reproductions don't have the words Seagull or Tianjin Seagull Factory on them at all.
> ...


These 42mm variants were designed by Thomas and were first introduced on f72. If I remember correctly, I was the one who posted the thread and photos here. Thomas even asked for my advice on how to word the case back text!

Don't believe everything Sea-Gull and much less what one of their ADs say. Search for Aevig and Sea-Gull for more details. In my opinion, these watches are not fakes or replicas, as Sea-Gull has not made models like these before.

I agree with you. Thomas does not state they are Sea-Gull branded watches, nor do they have any Sea-Gull logos or markings. If anyone can find similar or identical Sea-Gull models produced before Thomas started selling his, then I would be happy to retract my statement.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

hked said:


> These 42mm variants were designed by Thomas and were first introduced on f72. If I remember correctly, I was the one who posted the thread and photos here. Thomas even asked for my advice on how to word the case back text!
> 
> Don't believe everything Sea-Gull and much less what one of their ADs say. Search for Aevig and Sea-Gull for more details. In my opinion, these watches are not fakes or replicas, as Sea-Gull has not made models like these before.
> 
> I agree with you. Thomas does not state they are Sea-Gull branded watches, nor do they have any Sea-Gull logos or markings. If anyone can find similar or identical Sea-Gull models produced before Thomas started selling his, then I would be happy to retract my statement.


Thanks for this information, but, to clarify, I never asked the AD about the 42mm from Thomas. The links I sent him were from WatchesUnique and LongIslandWatch.

WU sells a 37.5mm and LIW is selling a 38mm. Which are different than what Thomas was/is selling.

I don't doubt that Thomas made the first version of the 42mm 304/1963 watches, but my question was originally about whether or not Tianjin Seagull made those watches from WU and LIW.

Again, thank you for your time and input in this discussion.


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## hked (Oct 5, 2009)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Thanks for this information, but, to clarify, I never asked the AD about the 42mm from Thomas. The links I sent him were from WatchesUnique and LongIslandWatch.
> 
> WU sells a 37.5mm and LIW is selling a 38mm. Which are different than what Thomas was/is selling.
> 
> ...


You're welcome. You mentioned sending photos of the OP's 42mm watch, as well as the WU and LIW links to your AD, so I assumed he said they are all fakes.

Anyway, Thomas does sell the 38mm AND 42mm versions found at LIW. The 37.5mm / 38mm cases are actually 37.8mm but who's counting


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

hked said:


> You're welcome. You mentioned sending photos of the OP's 42mm watch, as well as the WU and LIW links to your AD, so I assumed he said they are all fakes.
> 
> Anyway, Thomas does sell the 38mm AND 42mm versions found at LIW. The 37.5mm / 38mm cases are actually 37.8mm but who's counting


I understand now. Yes, I did ask him about that watch. And I didn't like that he said "fakes". These aren't fakes. I agree.

Again, I really appreciate your input in the discussion. I have had a hard time tracking down where these versions originated, and now I know.

My Chinese isn't perfect so there might have been some words lost in translation with the AD. I think I should have asked him more questions, but what I was trying to figure out is, "Are these Tianjin Seagull watches?" to which he replied, "fakes".
These aren't Tianjin Seagulls, but they aren't fakes either.


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## Russel88 (Nov 28, 2018)

hked said:


> Chascomm said:
> 
> 
> > Hopefully hked will chip in with the correct details, but from memory, Thomas's factory is located in Hong Kong. However I don't know whether Sea-Gull Hong Kong (who do a lot of Sea-Gull's OEM work) outsource to Guangdong companies. I would not be at all surprised if the 1963 case is actually made by another company for Sea-Gull (and anybody else who wants it).
> ...


I assume that the movements from your watch also comes directly from SeaGull Tianjin?


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## hked (Oct 5, 2009)

Russel88 said:


> I assume that the movements from your watch also comes directly from SeaGull Tianjin?


Thomas produces my watches and the movements are also sourced from Sea-Gull Tianjin.

Here is a photo of a modified ST1901 with swan neck regulator and these were a special order from Sea-Gull. The only ones I've seen previously with this modification were only for display purposes with a faux swan neck regulator. Mine actually work


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## adamdj (May 18, 2018)

Thanks everyone for your input. I have learned more than I ever thought possible on this subject! I'm grateful for the helpful, knowledgeable WUS community!


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## Temujin (Jan 12, 2019)

I ran into this article yesterday while looking for info on Seagull 1963, might he be correct? I have no knowledge of my own on the matter (but I'm learning quick )

Link to the article

Quote from the article:


> In fact, because of all these orders, there are now so many variations that a person can wonder which are fakes and which are authentic replicas. Well the truth is they're all fakes and they're all authentic. None of these watches are vintage with the same 19-jewel ST3 movement (the ST-19 movement in the Seagull 1963 has been updated and is now decorated) or strap (comes on a **NATO** strap!) nor are officially from Sea-Gull USA (ergo they're all fakes). However every watch was part of a batch ordered from and assembled by Tianjin Sea-Gull and there is no other factory has the resources to produce the Venus caliber 175 Swiss movement at less than an astronomical price (ergo they are all authentic)


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## liangliangyu (Nov 22, 2013)

Thanks a lot. Great information! Look forward to getting one in the future. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mythless (Feb 21, 2016)

Mind blown! Thanks HKED for the clarification. Hrmm, is the swan neck regular an extra feature for an added cost on your watches?


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## Sergei T. (May 30, 2018)

hked said:


> Thomas produces my watches and the movements are also sourced from Sea-Gull Tianjin.
> 
> Here is a photo of a modified ST1901 with swan neck regulator and these were a special order from Sea-Gull. The only ones I've seen previously with this modification were only for display purposes with a faux swan neck regulator. Mine actually work
> View attachment 13798791


Hi Ed, I see mark 'ED42' on the case back, is it the actual 42mm prototype of 1963 edition that you've mentioned will be released this year?


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## hked (Oct 5, 2009)

Sergei T. said:


> Hi Ed, I see mark 'ED42' on the case back, is it the actual 42mm prototype of 1963 edition that you've mentioned will be released this year?


Eagle eyes  Yes, it's the 42mm ED42 model.


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## hked (Oct 5, 2009)

mythless said:


> Mind blown! Thanks HKED for the clarification. Hrmm, is the swan neck regular an extra feature for an added cost on your watches?


You're most welcome. Originally, I planned on using the modified movement to differentiate my models from fakes, but I haven't decided on how to proceed yet.


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## mythless (Feb 21, 2016)

hked said:


> You're most welcome. Originally, I planned on using the modified movement to differentiate my models from fakes, but I haven't decided on how to proceed yet.


Ha, got plans on designing your version of the D304 with dauphine hands?


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## hked (Oct 5, 2009)

mythless said:


> Ha, got plans on designing your version of the D304 with dauphine hands?


My models are based on the vintage watches below, so adding dauphine hands is unlikely to happen. 







Photo courtesy of Mr. Li Wei


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## TodaysTime (Feb 27, 2018)

I have read so much on the Seagull 1963s and I still don't understand it.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

TodaysTime said:


> I have read so much on the Seagull 1963s and I still don't understand it.
> 
> I just noticed there is now one for same on Seagull Watch Company .com Is that one authentic? Is it any different than the ones being sold for less than 1/2 the price?


Here is what you need to know:
If the watch has Sea-Gull written on the case back then it was made by the real Sea-Gull factory in Tianjin, China. 
Therefore, the watch has gone through the QC of the Tianjin Sea-Gull factory and made to their standards.

The other watches are using the Sea-Gull ST19 movement, but are watches made by other watch factories who may or may not have the same specs and QC. On that note, some of the non-Tianjin Sea-Gull watches are using the swan neck regulator. The small hands will be different and the writing on the dial will be different on many models.
Also, the indices, case diameter/size, type of crowns and pushers, case back design, and crystal material varies greatly.


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## TodaysTime (Feb 27, 2018)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Here is what you need to know:
> If the watch has Sea-Gull written on the case back then it was made by the real Sea-Gull factory in Tianjin, China.
> Therefore, the watch has gone through the QC of the Tianjin Sea-Gull factory and made to their standards.
> 
> ...


Thank you. That cleared up everything!

Do you think a version made in the Sea-Gull factory in Tianjin is worth 2 ½ times as one made in a different factory?


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## Sergei T. (May 30, 2018)

TodaysTime said:


> Thank you. That cleared up everything!
> 
> Do you think a version made in the Sea-Gull factory in Tianjin is worth 2 ½ times as one made in a different factory?


Look from another angle - if there is an original Rolex worth 5k USD and super-duper-copy worth 1k USD - is that make easier to choose?


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## TodaysTime (Feb 27, 2018)

Sergei T. said:


> Look from another angle - if there is an original Rolex worth 5k USD and super-duper-copy worth 1k USD - is that make easier to choose?


That is a good point. The situation with Seagull is a little different from Rolex, however, because it seems like related factories, the same movements and some of the same parts are involved.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

TodaysTime said:


> Do you think a version made in the Sea-Gull factory in Tianjin is worth 2 ½ times as one made in a different factory?


I don't have enough knowledge of all the versions to make an assertion as to which is best, but I have seen the new Tianjin version and tried it on at the Sea-Gull AD here in Shanghai. TBH, I didn't think it was worth the 6000rmb they were asking for it. It can be had for around 3400rmb on Taobao, but that is still a lot of money for this watch. 
I can get the Red Star version for anywhere between 700rmb to 1400rmb depending on the different options being offered on Taobao.

Honestly, it really depends on if you are a fan of Sea-Gull and want a limited edition watch. The Tianjin Sea-Gull are limited editions. I believe Tianjin have made two limited edition versions of the 1963.

Sergei has the older version of the Tianjin 1963, and he seems to like it very much.

The HKED version and Red Star versions are well reviewed watches and worth looking at if you are on a budget. If your budget isn't an issue then it might be nice to have the LE from Tianjin.

HKED (a member of WUS forum) makes a version that is very close to the original Tianjin D304 and it has a very good price.
Check it out here:
https://www.hkedwatches.com/collections/1963-38mm/products/hked-1963-38mm-chronograph


----------



## Sergei T. (May 30, 2018)

Correct, I have the D304 version and bought it for ~430USD this year, which is today close to 3,000RMB
I honestly believe it was worth it, and I'm enjoying it indeed 

There are cheaper version of 1963 re-issue all over AliX, cheaper for sure - but I didn't liked them first, second - I don't know who is the manufacture (probably Red-Star) and it does make sense... for me.

The only version I've considered/compared as the opposite to D304 is HKED one, but with so much color variations - I got lost choosing the right one I want... 

Anyway, my advice would be to make a research here on forum, 
look for Red-Star 'LongIslandWatch' is re-selling, 
check the HKED version, 
and compare them to the Sea-Gull Original whenever you'll find it - AliX or Taobao
then decide which you like more vs. what your wallet will allow ;-)

Good luck!


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## SILES89 (Jul 22, 2017)

I can definitely attest to the quality of HKED's 1963's.


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## kerstel (Aug 9, 2013)

Hi folks, this is a very interesting thread. Can someone clarify why some people say Seagull and others say Sea-gull? Is there a significance in the hyphen? Thank you!


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## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

kerstel said:


> Hi folks, this is a very interesting thread. Can someone clarify why some people say Seagull and others say Sea-gull? Is there a significance in the hyphen? Thank you!


I think just because it's easier to skip the hyphen. Company branding (documents, business cards, promo material) almost always includes the hyphen, but not always. I have a number of business cards, for example, from Sea-Gull executives and representatives and at a quick quick glance, 8 have Sea-Gull, and one card has both. But even there, the branding has the hyphen. I suppose it's possible, but I don't think I've seen a Sea-Gull watch branded with a main logo that skipped the hyphen.


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## Chris576 (Jul 14, 2018)

Hello everybody , I would like to know if someone know the supplier of Poljot24 ? And the quality (For those who bought on this website) of the Seagull watches. Thank you !


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## Cheap Watch Guy (Mar 27, 2018)

Chris576 said:


> Hello everybody, I would like to know if someone know the supplier of Poljot24? And the quality (For those who bought on this website) of the Seagull watches. Thank you!


I just reviewed two watches from Poljot24 today, one being the Red Star 1963, often called the Seagull 1963 because of the movement, said to be Seagull's column wheel chrono movement. However, the actual Seagull 1963 has a somewhat different dial, a solid caseback, and is far more expensive than the Red Star 1963. Poljot24 has many nice Red Star watches but I don't know if they sell actual Seagull watches. In fact, I don't know if anyone here knows for certain who sells genuine Seagull watches.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Cheap Watch Guy said:


> In fact, I don't know if anyone here knows for certain who sells genuine Seagull watches.


Cheap Guy doesn't know what he is talking about.

Many WUS members have bought genuine Sea-Gull watches, and have posted their genuine watches on WUS. On that note, I have bought lots of genuine Sea-Gull watches.

Here are the many places you can buy authentic (genuine) Sea-Gull watches:

LongIslandWatch sells authentic Sea-Gulls:
https://www.longislandwatch.com/Sea_Gull_Mechanical_Watch_s/1970.htm

Sea-Gull has a flagship store on AliX:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5117082?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.53dd4df3yfnAUB

You can find authentic Sea-Gull watches here:
https://www.seagullwatchcompany.com/

If you live in China you can buy them here:
https://www.sea-gullmall.com/index.html

Or here:
https://mall.jd.com/index-1000002721.html

Or here:
https://seagull.tmall.com/?ali_refi...f2f0bf12e95857fc488f3f1e55ce&spm=a230r.1.14.4

Or here:
https://seagul.suning.com/?pcode=11359732295

Cheers, 
MLW


----------



## Cheap Watch Guy (Mar 27, 2018)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Cheap Guy doesn't know what he is talking about.....


Monkey_L_W, I do know what I'm talking about. The Red Star 1963 seen advertised as a "Seagull" has already been debunked. Also, Seagull themselves says that many vendors claiming to sell their watches are counterfeit. I've even seen astute members here question the validity of Seagull's supposedly "official" Ali store.

Monkey_L_W, the Chinese business model differs completely from that of the United States, so if you don't think I know what I'm talking about regarding Seagull watches then it's no skin off my back, because from what I've seen, I don't think anyone in China knows what they're talking about regarding Seagull watches.

Monkey_L_W, I like Chinese watches or I wouldn't buy them. And I don't care if their parts are made using prison labor and that's why nobody knows for certain who makes them, I think the USA should also make watches using prison labor; only our prisoners are too smart for that.

Have a nice day!


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## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

Cheap Watch Guy said:


> The Red Star 1963 seen advertised as a "Seagull" has already been debunked.


"Debunked" is far too strong a word for the actual situation regarding Red Star 1963 re-issue production.

Here's a very recent interview with Thomas from Red Star: https://www.amchpr.com/cwcf2019_redstar.html

It's a huge stretch to contend that agencies like the China Horologe Association/CHA or, for another example, the members of the Tianjin Watch and Clock Collector's Association "don't know what they're talking about regarding Sea-Gull watches". Members of both organizations include past and present Sea-Gull executives, managers, engineers and line workers, and I've met a number of those folks personally (as it happens, I'm a member of the CHA, and count founders and executive members of the Tianjin Collector's Association as my friends).

Over a number of years, I've visited numerous watch and clock factories (and watch industry training facilities) in Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Zhuhai, Yantai, Liaocheng, Shanghai, and Beijing, and I'm a formally recognized Sino-Canadian liaison with the Guangzhou Watch and Clock Association. I've also attended 3 of the annual China Watch and Clock Fairs since 2011, and the 100th Anniversary of Yantai Polaris (the oldest consecutively running clock and watch factory in China). I've seen Sea-Gull watches (and lots of other brands) being made, _right up close_, and I've visited any number of factories where watch parts (dials, bridges, gears, hands, etc) are being made as well. I've met with the workers and seen the factory conditions first hand. My website is full of photos from past visits.

I've visited and purchased from the Sea-Gull flagship store at the Malls at Oriental Plaza in Beijing, and from the factory outlet store at the Tianjin Sea-Gull Factory itself, in Tianjin. I'm pretty sure they sell legitimate Sea-Gull watches. I've also purchased watches from one of the 4 authorized Sea-Gull repair and retail facilities in Tianjin. Theirs were legitimate, too.


----------



## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Well said, Ron. Thanks for sharing this information.

I too have purchased authentic Tianjin Sea-Gull watches that were authenticated by the Official Sea-Gull Mall on WeChat.


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## taike (Mar 7, 2014)

AlbertaTime said:


> ...
> 
> Here's a very recent interview with Thomas from Red Star: https://www.amchpr.com/cwcf2019_redstar.html
> 
> ...


thank you for this. very enlightening, and a pleasure to "meet" the producer of all those project watches.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Cheap Watch Guy said:


> lso, Seagull themselves says that many vendors claiming to sell their watches are counterfeit.


Are you talking about the message from this store: https://www.seagullwatchstore.com/
That posted this information?
http://www.seagullwatchstore.com/category-s/1838.htm
*This store isn't affiliated with Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Group*

I have called the Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Group personally and asked them about who is and isn't an AD for Tianjin Sea-Gull.
https://www.seagullwatchstore.com/ and Goodstuffs/Times International *ARE NOT* ADs of Tianjin Sea-Gull or even affiliated with Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Group. 
I asked the factory specifically about these stores.

Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Group did confirm that the Official stores on Tmall, Suning.com and JD.com are authentic. I will also assert that there is no evidence here or anywhere else that states the AliX "Sea-Gull Official Store" isn't connected to Tianjin Sea-Gull. Actually, another WUS member emailed that store directly and they confirmed they are affiliated with Tianjin Sea-Gull. 
This is the official Sea-Gull store on AliX:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5117082?spm=a2g1y.12024536.pcShopHead_252279287.0

I have done my research on Sea-Gull, and other members can attest to this. 
I have also purchased many authentic Sea-Gulls in China and have posted proof in many threads concerning this matter. Tianjin Sea-Gull has an authentication process through their Official Sea-Gull Mall on Wechat. 
Here is the Sea-Gull official mall link:
https://www.sea-gullmall.com/index.html


----------



## Cheap Watch Guy (Mar 27, 2018)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Are you talking about the message from this store: https://www.seagullwatchstore.com/
> That posted this information?
> Fake Seagull Watch
> *This store isn't affiliated with Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Group*
> ...


Yes, that first link you mention, that's one of the things I've seen which make it difficult to know where to purchase legitimate Seagull products. So should I ever wish to purchase a Seagull watch, I'll consider the vendors you recommend, thanks.


----------



## Cheap Watch Guy (Mar 27, 2018)

AlbertaTime said:


> "Debunked" is far too strong a word for the actual situation regarding Red Star 1963 re-issue production.


My saying "debunked" refers to those sellers who say the Red Star 1963 is a Seagull, although it's not really. And I didn't know that until I started researching the Red Star 1963 here at WSU, probably from reading your threads. That's what I meant when I said debunked.


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

Cheap Watch Guy said:


> My saying "debunked" refers to those sellers who say the Red Star 1963 is a Seagull, although it's not really. And I didn't know that until I started researching the Red Star 1963 here at WSU, probably from reading your threads. That's what I meant when I said debunked.


The term "debunked" has a negative connotation that I feel is undeserved in this situation. Clarified might be a better term. There's been no attempt to fool anyone, here, and Tianjin SG and Tsinlien SG have always been aware of Thomas's activities, including providing him the Sea-Gull movements he uses.

Thomas is very arguably the prime mover for building western awareness of the 1963/304 to the western consciousness, and in building the now very large world-wide market for the many variants, including Sea-Gull's own. I suppose I could be wrong, but I've seen no evidence the powers-that-be have any issue at all with Thomas, and I know any number of the powers-that-be.

As the CHA's Li Wei puts it: "The Seagull watch factory _and [other] watch enthusiasts_ (emphasis mine) have been duplicating this watch in a variety of versions in recent years, attempting to satisfy the desires of 304 enthusiasts." Mr. Li is the leader of the Domestic Horology Department of the China Horologe Association, and he's in an excellent position to know exactly who is involved in the production of the 304 variants, and where.


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## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

On eBay UK I can order this watch from China for £200 delivered, that is about $230


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> On eBay UK I can order this watch from China for £200 delivered, that is about $230


You might want to look at finding a Taobao agent. These are going for 100usd in China, even one with a sapphire crystal and display case back is only 105usd. I think an agent will only charge you a small percentage of the cost of the item. 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...Z3xEu&id=586423493555&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail


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## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

Duplicate


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## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> You might want to look at finding a Taobao agent. These are going for 100usd in China, even one with a sapphire crystal and display case back is only 105usd. I think an agent will only charge you a small percentage of the cost of the item.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...Z3xEu&id=586423493555&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail


I clicked on the link, and got a translation, but to be honest the site is pretty poor, and the watch shown only has plexi glass. On reflection, I do have to ask myself why I should go for this watch, rather than than The Parnis. The Parnis version has Sapphire, uses a Sea-Gull movement, and is cheaper. Anyway, it's on the back burner, but I may still keep an eye open


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Mrs Wiggles said:


> I clicked on the link, and got a translation, but to be honest the site is pretty poor, and the watch shown only has plexi glass. On reflection, I do have to ask myself why I should go for this watch, rather than than The Parnis. The Parnis version has Sapphire, uses a Sea-Gull movement, and is cheaper. Anyway, it's on the back burner, but I may still keep an eye open


What are you talking about?
The site is poor? LOL! It is Taobao. Taobao is the largest eCommerce site in China.

The seller also has amazing ratings, and 377 reviews of this watch with zero negative reviews.

There are two sapphire crystal versions in the link. The third and fourth option have sapphire crystals.
Also, this ad clearly states that the watches come with a Sea-Gull 1901 movement. All the reissue D304 "Seagull 1963" watches have Seagull 1901 movements. 
The title of the ad also states these are ST19 movments. That means Seagull ST19.

Lastly, please share a link to the Parnis version of the Sea-Gull 1963 that is less than 100usd. I have never heard of a Parnis Seagull 1963.


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## stevarad (Feb 11, 2019)

Wow! Prices are ridicuolus. Is there any 42mm which such prices on taobao (tried to find, didn't saw)?

You must post from time to time links like this when you find good watches with such low prices for us outside Cina ))

Thanks!


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## Chris576 (Jul 14, 2018)

Hello, I would like to know if we can establish a ranking from the lowest (even if the quality is good too) to the highest quality build ? Between Poljot24, HKED, Red Star, Watchunique, Longislandwatch for exemple. Thank you


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## JoakoCAB (Feb 8, 2019)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> What are you talking about?
> The site is poor? LOL! It is Taobao. Taobao is the largest eCommerce site in China.
> 
> The seller also has amazing ratings, and 377 reviews of this watch with zero negative reviews.
> ...


The last one says something like "exported to the german version of acrylic". Do you have any clue what that means?
Also, in the Poljot24 website now they are listing the watch with a new see-through caseback (more wider) and a swans neck regulator. The LIW versión also has the swan-neck regulator but not the new caseback. Some of the HKED versions has the new movement too. 
My guess is that "exported to the german version of acrylic" would mean it's this new version of the movement (modified ST19), since i think Poljot24 is based in Germany, but i'm uncertain about that. HKED has established that its watches are made by Thomas, and his original idea was use the difference in the movement to differentiate the originals from the fakes ones, i think we could track all these movements to the factories of Red Star
However, i don't think the watches on TaoBao are completely produced in Red Star factories. The hand set is different from all versions of established reliable sources and seems quite similar to some on the AliExpress watches with some negative reviews.

Lastly i really appreciate the investigation you are doing and i have learning a lot for reading through the post. I love the story behind the watch and how complicated it is.
My biggest question now is who was the first to produce the modern version of the 1963 exactly like this:








(not my picture)

Was Thomas, Sea-Gull or someone else?


----------



## stevarad (Feb 11, 2019)

Here are some answers:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/thom...es-china-watch-clock-fair-2019-a-5040623.html

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


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## ClSCO (May 20, 2018)

Hello guys, so I want to buy the Seagull 1963 but after I did a research, like a lot of us, I got really confused on which ones are actually Seagull made and which ones aren't. I know that websites like LongIslandWatch are selling genuine Seagull 1963. But the price they ask for it is a bit too much for what i'm willing to spend on a chinese watch at the moment. I heard about people saying don't buy from Aliexpress because some of them are fake. And I know they are, or are they, at this point I have no clue  but seeing the price difference from LongIslandWatch and Aliexpress I think I might buy it from Aliexpress. Am I making a mistake? based on user reviews and pictures it looks good enough for me (might not look the same for others) I'd like to know what do you think:
Here's the Aliexpress link:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...5.0&pvid=84faee0c-7d0c-4669-8cfc-0567470e4e86


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## ClSCO (May 20, 2018)

it posted my message twice for some reason so ignore this  my question above still stands ^^^


----------



## GeoffNA (Oct 26, 2019)

I have read on here that AliX official Sea-Gull store is legit. If that's true, then what's more confusing is they offer two 1963's. 

They have the limited edition, which some on here have bought from them. Supposedly, this one comes in an official case, has Sea-Gull stamped on the case back, and has a QR code. But they also have one that appears to be a standard version. I'm new here so I can't post links. 

If the AliX store is a legit AD, are both made at Sea-Gull?


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

GeoffNA said:


> I have read on here that AliX official Sea-Gull store is legit. If that's true, then what's more confusing is they offer two 1963's.
> 
> They have the limited edition, which some on here have bought from them. Supposedly, this one comes in an official case, has Sea-Gull stamped on the case back, and has a QR code. But they also have one that appears to be a standard version. I'm new here so I can't post links.
> 
> If the AliX store is a legit AD, are both made at Sea-Gull?


I see what you mean. It looks like Sea-Gull has released a non-limited edition version on a NATO strap now too. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000252492975.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.17.6eaa3792jchVEU

Here is the limited edition version with the leather strap:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000209331059.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.5.6dc33792F1ynyF

The only differences I see are the strap material and case back design. The non-LE release appears to have a case back similar to the original D304.


----------



## GeoffNA (Oct 26, 2019)

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm leaning towards a Red Star with blue face as my next purchase, but if I was buying one of the Sea-Gull releases, I'd go for the non-limited. Even with a replacement strap and display back to show off the Sea-Gull stamped movement, I'd probably save $50-60.

It also bums me out that they didn't make an exact replica this time around. If it was stamped 19 ZUAN and the spade hand just for the minute counter, it would have been perfect.


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## Techgeek23 (Mar 13, 2015)

I want to buy this watch as well, I have the same question as you do, is this a Legit watch?


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## Sturmgewehr1944 (Sep 18, 2019)

I think it's a roll of the dice.. LIW might be the only way to make sure you get a legit one ??


----------



## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Sturmgewehr1944 said:


> I think it's a roll of the dice.. LIW might be the only way to make sure you get a legit one ??


What do you mean by "legit one"?
They are all legit D304 reissues.


----------



## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

adamdj said:


> To be frank, I don't care much if it is a true Seagull or a reproduction/replica/fake. It was the design and the price point that interested me most.
> 
> But it does beg the question...what movement is in my watch? Is it still an ST19? Or something different entirely?


That's what I was thinking. At $250 how "fake" can it be? If it runs and looks good how much worse can it be than the real thing?


----------



## HAR (Feb 25, 2015)

At the beggining of this week, I had many doubts regarding the 1963s. I read the entire thread which took me a while. But at the time I think my doubts have been resolved. I will be pulling the trigger on a HKED version, because they are the more eye-appealing to me. I unsderstand that his watches are made by Red Star using Sea-Gull movements and I am ok with that. Thank you for the information!


----------



## OutOfSpec (Mar 11, 2018)

HAR said:


> At the beggining of this week, I had many doubts regarding the 1963s. I read the entire thread which took me a while. But at the time I think my doubts have been resolved. I will be pulling the trigger on a HKED version, because they are the more eye-appealing to me. I unsderstand that his watches are made by Red Star using Sea-Gull movements and I am ok with that. Thank you for the information!


I wore my HKED63 today. It's a great piece. You won't be disappointed!


----------



## Andrei Mihaila (Feb 24, 2016)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> You might want to look at finding a Taobao agent. These are going for 100usd in China, even one with a sapphire crystal and display case back is only 105usd. I think an agent will only charge you a small percentage of the cost of the item.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...Z3xEu&id=586423493555&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail


That seller is gone, the link is not working. Do you now similar sellers on Taobao? I tried searching myself but i think you need an account to search....


----------



## Andrei Mihaila (Feb 24, 2016)

I just bought one from Ali... The price was too good to let it pass.


----------



## stevarad (Feb 11, 2019)

Andrei Mihaila said:


> I just bought one from Ali... The price was too good to let it pass.


Yes, with all coupons, coins etc, I payed mine 114 USD in brand shopping week ))

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gak (Jan 17, 2014)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Are you talking about the message from this store: SEAGULL WATCH
> That posted this information?
> Fake Seagull Watch
> *This store isn't affiliated with Tianjin Sea-Gull Watch Group*
> ...


Just so if it counts; I can confirm as well that 思葛创奇 to be offcially owned by Tianjin Seagull so a good place to confirm authenticity of any AD or an online store.


----------



## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Yes. Sea-Gull Mall is the official Tianjin Sea-Gull online buying platfrom in China that is connected directly with the Official Sea-Gull Website.

In order to find out if an online store is an official AD, you would need to contact Tianjin Sea-Gull Customer Service directly by phone (maybe email). There is a list of brick and mortar stores that are AD's in China, but that list is in Chinese.
You access that list by following the link to the Official Sea-Gull Website:





海鸥手表: 海鸥


海鸥手表中国官方网站为您提供各种型号的海鸥手表.海鸥手表官网包含多功能、纤薄、基础、女士/情侣、复刻、沃朵、设计师、陀飞轮等系列手表,更多介绍尽在海鸥手表中国官方网站。




www.seagullwatch.com




and then going here:





销售网点 - 海鸥手表: 海鸥


海鸥手表中国官方网站为您提供各种型号的海鸥手表.海鸥手表官网包含多功能、纤薄、基础、女士/情侣、复刻、沃朵、设计师、陀飞轮等系列手表,更多介绍尽在海鸥手表中国官方网站。




www.seagullwatch.com





I have actually called Sea-Gull CS here in China to ask about online ADs.
This was about two years ago. Tianjin Sea-Gull only confirmed three online stores:

The Official Sea-Gull Flagship store on TMall.








海鸥表官方旗舰店


海鸥表官方旗舰店是由品牌官方企业运营或授权的官网旗舰店，所有商品保证正品无假货。海鸥表官方旗舰店宝贝与描述相符评分为4.8分，比同行业平均水平高3.17%，卖家的服务态度评分为4.8分，比同行业平均水平高17.70%，物流服务的质量评分为4.9分，比同行业平均水平高28.66%。




seagull.tmall.com





The Official Sea-Gull Flagship store on JD.com.





海鸥表京东自营旗舰店 - 京东


海鸥表京东自营旗舰店,提供海鸥表京东自营旗舰店各类正品商品的报价、促销、评论、导购、图片等信息，欢迎您再次光顾海鸥表京东自营旗舰店




mall.jd.com





The suning.com website





海鸥表_海鸥表推荐 - 苏宁易购


苏宁易购海鸥表，为您提供海鸥表导购，海鸥表推荐，海鸥表评价，海鸥表图片，海鸥表好不好，怎么样等产品信息，了解更多海鸥表导购信息，就上苏宁易购，正品行货，全国联保，货到付款




search.suning.com





I was told directly by Tianjin Sea-Gull CS that no other online store/website is an official AD for Tianjin Sea-Gull.



gak said:


> Just so if it counts; I can confirm as well that 思葛创奇 to be offcially owned by Tianjin Seagull so a good place to confirm authenticity of any AD or an online store.


----------



## Victorv (Oct 12, 2016)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Yes. Sea-Gull Mall is the official Tianjin Sea-Gull online buying platfrom in China that is connected directly with the Official Sea-Gull Website.
> 
> In order to find out if an online store is an official AD, you would need to contact Tianjin Sea-Gull Customer Service directly by phone (maybe email). There is a list of brick and mortar stores that are AD's in China, but that list is in Chinese.
> You access that list by following the link to the Official Sea-Gull Website:
> ...


Hello Monkey

Do you know if EOL Outlet continues selling original Seagull in Aliexpress?


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Victorv said:


> Hello Monkey
> 
> Do you know if EOL Outlet continues selling original Seagull in Aliexpress?


Hello Victor,
I haven't contacted Tianjin Sea-Gull since EOL and seagullwatchcompany started selling, so I am not sure if they are considered ADs or not. I know that Kevin was in direct contact with Tianjin Sea-Gull, but he has left EOL.
I am going to assume his partner/s is/are now opperating as a "middle man" between Tianjin Sea-Gull and the customer.
Their website About us is still running too.
I believe you WILL be getting an authentic watch from both EOL and seagullwatchcompany.
I am more than willing to help anyone authenticate their watch if they need it.


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## Victorv (Oct 12, 2016)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Hello Victor,
> I haven't contacted Tianjin Sea-Gull since EOL and seagullwatchcompany started selling, so I am not sure if they are considered ADs or not. I know that Kevin was in direct contact with Tianjin Sea-Gull, but he has left EOL.
> I am going to assume his partner/s is/are now opperating as a "middle man" between Tianjin Sea-Gull and the customer.
> Their website About us is still running too.
> ...


Many thanks dear Monkey

I told you because i'm planing on buying a Seagull on 11/11 and i want to be original.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

Victorv said:


> Many thanks dear Monkey
> 
> I told you because i'm planing on buying a Seagull on 11/11 and i want to be original.


The philosophical question here is which one is the actual original. The various HKED and Red Star reissues were in production quite a few years before Sea-Gull noticed the demand and started producing them again and selling them at a premium.

There's an interesting video about the confusing history of the 1963 on Youtube ("Just One More Watch" if I remember correctly).


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

I think what Victor means is he wants an "authentic" Tianjin Sea-Gull 1963. 
He is using the word original when he likely means "authentic".
I don't mean to speak for Victor, but I am going to assume that his question about EOL Outlets means he is looking for the Tianjin Sea-Gull version. 
Victor, please correct me if I am wrong.

As for the "history of the 1963 reissue", WUS member/admin AlbertaTIme posted a thread some time ago with an audio interview he recorded with Thomas(Red Star) who tells how the reissue came to be.

A few things to consider about the Tianjin Sea-Gull version:
The Tianjin Sea-Gull versions are not made at a factory in Guangzhou. They are made at the Tianjin Sea-Gull factory in Tianjin and go through Tianjin Sea-Gull QC. They are also made with Sea-Gull movements that go through Tianjin Sea-Gull QC. (This is not to say the Ed or Thomas make an inferior watch by any means. I love what HKED is doing and obviously Red Star has a great product.)
Futhermore, the Tianjin Sea-Gull versions (I think there have been 3 variations put out) are all Limited Edition watches. If they are worth the extra money or not is completely up to the buyer. 
I have known serveral WUS members who insist on buying the Tianjin Sea-Gull version while many opt for the Red Star or HKED or "insert other watch company's" version. 
I say this because I see many versions of the watch going for around 100usd on Taobao.



Buramu said:


> The philosophical question here is which one is the actual original. The various HKED and Red Star reissues were in production quite a few years before Sea-Gull noticed the demand and started producing them again and selling them at a premium.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> A few things to consider about the Tianjin Sea-Gull version:
> The Tianjin Sea-Gull versions are not made at a factory in Guangzhou. They are made at the Tianjin Sea-Gull factory in Tianjin and go through Tianjin Sea-Gull QC. They are also made with Sea-Gull movements that go through Tianjin Sea-Gull QC. (This is not to say the Ed or Thomas make an inferior watch by any means. I love what HKED is doing and obviously Red Star has a great product.)
> Futhermore, the Tianjin Sea-Gull versions (I think there have been 3 variations put out) are all Limited Edition watches. If they are worth the extra money or not is completely up to the buyer.
> I have known serveral WUS members who insist on buying the Tianjin Sea-Gull version while many opt for the Red Star or HKED or "insert other watch company's" version.
> I say this because I see many versions of the watch going for around 100usd on Taobao.


Thanks for clearing that up. A lot of the charm of watches is in their heritage, so it's good to have these details on the table


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## Victorv (Oct 12, 2016)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> I think what Victor means is he wants an "authentic" Tianjin Sea-Gull 1963.
> He is using the word original when he likely means "authentic".
> I don't mean to speak for Victor, but I am going to assume that his question about EOL Outlets means he is looking for the Tianjin Sea-Gull version.
> Victor, please correct me if I am wrong.
> ...


Yes you are right Monkey, i want to add an authentic Tianjin SeaGull. Not the 1963, i have one that i think don't came from Tianjin.

I have to think what Tianjin SeaGull i want, maybe the OceanStar or maybe another one, but i want one of this legendary brand.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

Victorv said:


> Yes you are right Monkey, i want to add an authentic Tianjin SeaGull. Not the 1963, i have one that i think don't came from Tianjin.
> 
> I have to think what Tianjin SeaGull i want, maybe the OceanStar or maybe another one, but i want one of this legendary brand.


This thread is quite informative actually. I ordered a watch from SeagullWatchStore.com two weeks ago. It's apparently not _the_ official Sea-Gull dealer (if I remember correctly), but my watch was in fact shipped from Tianjin, so I have good hopes it's actually a Sea-Gull produced watch.

The 1963 is on my shortlist, hence my interest in this thread.


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## Andrei Mihaila (Feb 24, 2016)

stevarad said:


> Yes, with all coupons, coins etc, I payed mine 114 USD in brand shopping week ))
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good deal @stevarad ! Mine was 120usd, very close  Did you receive yours yet? Where did you buy it from? I bought it from Tourbillon watch store. I wanted acrylic and only they confirmed for sure that they will send acrylic crystal.


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## stevarad (Feb 11, 2019)

Andrei Mihaila said:


> Good deal @stevarad ! Mine was 120usd, very close  Did you receive yours yet? Where did you buy it from? I bought it from Tourbillon watch store. I wanted acrylic and only they confirmed for sure that they will send acrylic crystal.


Same seller. It must been that I had some few coins more then you, so mine was little cheaper. I received mine, and I am very satisfied. sapphire version. Only regret is because I didn't buy goose neck version. Anyway, watch is working flawlessly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andrei Mihaila (Feb 24, 2016)

Great news, wear it in good health!


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## soopermark (Sep 24, 2021)

Thanks for the informative posts! So from what I gather, any transparent back 1963s are not from Sea-Gull Tianjin, and are not "Official", yeah?


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## Apestapatas (Feb 11, 2021)

I like this one. But it kinda looks like a Hamilton.


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## carbon_dragon (Jul 28, 2019)

I wonder if the word "genuine" has any meaning in this context. We really have no idea who is making what or with what agreements. Even brands seem pretty fast and loose in China, at least for the export type watch, and they change with the tide (and I suspect some brands just get used by a lot of people). I've seen some videos on this subject and none of them pretend to have any idea of whether their particular seagull is "genuine." What holds me back from buying one is that I have no idea what level of quality it would have. They seem very pretty though.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

It is quite easy to know if you are getting a genuine Tianjin Sea-Gull. Genuine Tianjin Sea-Gull watches come with a QR code that can be scanned for verification of authentication.



carbon_dragon said:


> I wonder if the word "genuine" has any meaning in this context. We really have no idea who is making what or with what agreements. Even brands seem pretty fast and loose in China, at least for the export type watch, and they change with the tide (and I suspect some brands just get used by a lot of people). I've seen some videos on this subject and none of them pretend to have any idea of whether their particular seagull is "genuine." What holds me back from buying one is that I have no idea what level of quality it would have. They seem very pretty though.


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## usd97 (May 22, 2021)

Super nice watch


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## Spirit’dWatcher (Oct 6, 2021)

Hmmmm …… what a thread!! Who are, and where do, Sugess fit into this spaghetti?


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## ddaly12 (Nov 13, 2020)

This thing is awesome for $200! Shockingly enjoyable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hello_bumbie (Oct 3, 2020)

All I care about is getting an authentic Sea-Gull movement. I'm less concerned about which factory put the case together.

From this thread, it seems I can confidently buy a 1963 Chronograph from the Sugess ebay store. They have it for almost 100 USD less than other sellers. Anyone disagree?


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

hello_bumbie said:


> All I care about is getting an authentic Sea-Gull movement. I'm less concerned about which factory put the case together.
> 
> From this thread, it seems I can confidently buy a 1963 Chronograph from the Sugess ebay store. They have it for almost 100 USD less than other sellers. Anyone disagree?


The Sugess I bought was dead on arrival. The entire movement was a mess. I don’t trust their QC.

I would always spend a little bit extra and get a HKED directly from Ed. All in all an infinitely more enjoyable experience.


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## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

carbon_dragon said:


> What holds me back from buying one is that I have no idea what level of quality it would have.


The level of quality depends on the QC of the seller. "Buy the seller, not the watch."

I have five 1963 variants, from three different suppliers. All work fine, and the oldest was bought over 10 years ago, That stated, when it comes to customer support (and I mean no disrespect to any other sellers, many of whom will probably back up their customers just fine) I trust Ed Tse/HKED most because he has a demonstrated track record that earns it.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

+1 for HKED's version



Buramu said:


> I would always spend a little bit extra and get a HKED directly from Ed. All in all an infinitely more enjoyable experience.


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## hello_bumbie (Oct 3, 2020)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> +1 for HKED's version


Definitely seems like a reliable and trustworthy seller, but honestly I like the look of the red star instead of the HKED logo. 
Has anyone had any experience from seagull1963.org?


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

@hello_bumbie
Seems like the reviews are mixed.








Seagull1963 is rated "Great" with 3.9 / 5 on Trustpilot


Do you agree with Seagull1963's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 36 customers have already said.




www.trustpilot.com





If you are in the USA, why not buy from LIW?





Seagull 1963 Airforce Watch | Island Watch


Mechanical hand winding, special edition Chinese Airforce chronograph chronograph




longislandwatch.com





*All that being said, I wouldn't spend around 300usd on a watch I can get on Taobao for 100usd.
Get a Taobao agent and just buy off Taobao and save 200usd.*


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## hw3883 (Dec 26, 2021)

Okay, after (almost) reading this extremely long thread, where can I buy a Sea Gull 1963 reissue watch? Is this the website to get one? Can some one please post a link here?









Seagull 1963 Mechanical Chronograph Watch Re-issued Edition FKJB


Item Type: Mechanical WristwatchesBand Width: 17.5mmCase Thickness: 13mmBand Length: 22cmBand Material Type: LeatherCase Shape: RoundWater Resistance Depth: 30mBoxes & Cases Material: PaperMovement: Mechanical Hand WindFeature: Water Resistant,ChronographModel Number: FKJBClasp Type...




www.seagullwatchcompany.com





I can see that this is a limited edition and it is not quite the same as the original one made, as both sub dial hands have a tail, whilst the original design only have one that is tailed. The Chinese writings looks okay to me though. Even the one on the Sea Gull official site is showing a difference one <https://www-sea--gullmall-com.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=zh-CN&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en>

Can anyone tell me when can I find a 1963 reissue genuine one? 

BTW, I am not a watch collector but would like to get a fully mechanical watch for my daily wear.


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## Paddy V (Apr 30, 2018)

Aliexpress. Enjoy your savings.

So many sources, sellers, and possibly even factories making the 1963 (not affiliated with Sea-Gull) to the point Sea-Gull created a proper reissue based on a mix of the original chrono and the non-affiliated one that started the whole attention.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

If you want a real Tianjin Sea-Gull-
Buy it from here:








Seagull 1963 Mechanical Chronograph Watch Re-issued Edition FKJB


Item Type: Mechanical WristwatchesBand Width: 17.5mmCase Thickness: 13mmBand Length: 22cmBand Material Type: LeatherCase Shape: RoundWater Resistance Depth: 30mBoxes & Cases Material: PaperMovement: Mechanical Hand WindFeature: Water Resistant,ChronographModel Number: FKJBClasp Type...




www.seagullwatchcompany.com






The one on the Sea-Gull mall is a different reissue called the Plan B. It is their lastest "version" of the air force watch. 
Tianjin Sea-Gull has been putting out different versions of tha air force watch for many years.




hw3883 said:


> Okay, after (almost) reading this extremely long thread, where can I buy a Sea Gull 1963 reissue watch? Is this the website to get one? Can some one please post a link here?
> 
> I can see that this is a limited edition and it is not quite the same as the original one made, as both sub dial hands have a tail, whilst the original design only have one that is tailed. The Chinese writings looks okay to me though. Even the one on the Sea Gull official site is showing a difference one
> 
> Can anyone tell me when can I find a 1963 reissue genuine one?


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## hello_bumbie (Oct 3, 2020)

If it was me, I'd really miss the display caseback. You should maybe consider seagull1963.org. They have what I _think_ are genuine ST-19 movements but are not sanctioned by the official Sea-gull company. Also the cost is significantly lower.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

hello_bumbie said:


> If it was me, I'd really miss the display caseback. You should maybe consider seagull1963.org. They have what I _think_ are genuine ST-19 movements but are not sanctioned by the official Sea-gull company. Also the cost is significantly lower.


Just to clarify; all ST19 movements are ‘genuine’, ie made by Sea-Gull, but only a minority of ST19 powered 1963 style watches are made by Sea-Gull.


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## WIS_Chronomaster (Sep 17, 2007)

Great for the price .


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

Any difference between sugess and seakoss versions? I see they're the same price on aliexpress but wanted to know if one is better than the other! Even though they're both replicas 

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

I doubt it. Those two mushroom brands are likely made in the same factory. 

The real difference with the 1963 comes when you buy from a good seller with proper QC like HKED or Tianjin Sea-Gull. 
Even a Red Star would be better than the two you mentioned.
You are rolling the dice with those mushroom brands, IMHO. 
My two cents. 





alexd3498 said:


> Any difference between sugess and seakoss versions? I see they're the same price on aliexpress but wanted to know if one is better than the other! Even though they're both replicas
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> I doubt it. Those two mushroom brands are likely made in the same factory.
> 
> The real difference with the 1963 comes when you buy from a good seller with proper QC like HKED or Tianjin Sea-Gull.
> Even a Red Star would be better than the two you mentioned.
> ...


Sounds like a plan! I'll look at red star and the "sea-gull" ones then

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Check out HKED's watches. He is also a member of this forum.
His have the "original" logo style. I like it more than the red star logo.









hked watches


HKEd Watches



www.hkedwatches.com







*EDIT: I just checked his website.Many of his watches are showing SOLD OUT. You can messages him directly. He might have some watches available that aren't listed on the website.*





alexd3498 said:


> Sounds like a plan! I'll look at red star and the "sea-gull" ones then
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk


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## alexd3498 (Feb 27, 2020)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Check out HKED's watches. He is also a member of this forum.
> His have the "original" logo style. I like it more than the red star logo.
> 
> 
> ...


Wow those look of much higher quality indeed, they'll be worth the wait! 

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk


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## johant (Jun 12, 2011)

Does anyone know why HKED's 38mm acrylic crystal watches are all sold out? Are they discontinued? Otherwise I hope he is just waiting for new parts, and preparing new stock!


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Did you email him?
Also, he is a member here. I will tag him. Perhaps he will see this message. 
@hked 



johant said:


> Does anyone know why HKED's 38mm acrylic crystal watches are all sold out? Are they discontinued? Otherwise I hope he is just waiting for new parts, and preparing new stock!


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## johant (Jun 12, 2011)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Did you email him?
> Also, he is a member here. I will tag him. Perhaps he will see this message.


Thanks ... and I did in the meantime. The 38mm watches should be in stock again soon.


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## Scent (9 mo ago)

I want to thank this thread. I bought the authentic one from the official store on taobao. Really nice watch


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## krakle (Sep 29, 2015)

Obviously all modern versions are reissues or aka replicas. However, the genuine reissue/replica is from the Tianjin Factory (Seagulls factory). It is also the least attractive reissue. Solid case back and smaller... All of the others are just made to look like the watch with some modern designing. The movements are also not genuine Seagull. These watches are everywhere and can be bought off ebay for as little as $120 if you win the bid at the right time. The watch you acquired is in fact a reissue but is not from the actual factory or the actual design of the authentic reissue. If you are big in to horology this will matter to you. If not congrats on your purchase...it looks better anyway.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Yes, they are genuine Seagull movements. The movement is the ST19xx. BTW, Tianjin Seagull Watch Group is one of the largest producers of movements in the world. 



krakle said:


> The movements are also not genuine Seagull.


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## krakle (Sep 29, 2015)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Yes, they are genuine Seagull movements. The movement is the ST19xx. BTW, Tianjin Seagull Watch Group is one of the largest producers of movements in the world.


How would you know that all reissues from various factories use genuine Seagull movements? There are reproductions of st1901 movements that are not made by Seagull.


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## HoustonReal (Dec 29, 2013)

krakle said:


> Obviously all modern versions are reissues or aka replicas. However, the genuine reissue/replica is from the Tianjin Factory (Seagulls factory). It is also the least attractive reissue. Solid case back and smaller... All of the others are just made to look like the watch with some modern designing. The movements are also not genuine Seagull. These watches are everywhere and can be bought off ebay for as little as $120 if you win the bid at the right time. The watch you acquired is in fact a reissue but is not from the actual factory or the actual design of the authentic reissue. If you are big in to horology this will matter to you. If not congrats on your purchase...it looks better anyway.


This is a bunch of strange claims strung together. Sea-Gull has done at least THREE reissues. They are true to the original size of the watches from the 1960's, at 38mm. The 40mm and 42mm versions for sale are modern reinterpretations, because many younger watch buyers are not accustomed to the smaller watches of the past. I can't think of any watches in the 1960's that had display backs, except for some skeleton models.

Except for the recent quartz models, all "1963" replicas use Sea-Gull movements. The reality is that mechanical chronograph movements are somewhat rare these days, and the Sea-Gull ST19 family are the cheapest ones available. The ST1901 is sold at only one quality grade, but with the option of a "Swan Neck" adjustment feature. For the first D304 Reissue, Sea-Gull resurrected the ST3 caliber with modern improvements, as the ST19.

The biggest difference between the genuine Sea-Gull factory made watches, and all the replicas, is that the production facilities and QC can differ widely. Because Sea-Gull is placing their name and reputation on the real reissues, they are also using a high level of quality control. The Tianjin factory is one of the cleanest watch production facilities in China, and they employ a skilled workforce. The replicas vary based on the various brands producing them. Some are made like most microbrand watches, and others are slapped together with lowest cost methods. All of them use ST1901 movements, but how the movements are stored, transported and cased up will effect their longevity. You can buy a Mercedes and order an AMG supercharger kit, but whether you have it installed by an AMG certified Mercedes dealer, a competent foreign automobile mechanic, or a guy who works on cars in the Autozone parking lot, really makes huge a difference. Also, did you buy the AMG kit from Mercedes, or off eBay?

*Sea-Gull D304 Reissue* - 10,000 numbered pieces (Circa 2012)

















*Sea-Gull "1963" reissue* - 5500 numbered pieces (circa 2018)

















*Sea-Gull 819.17.1962* - *65th Anniversary Edition* - Limited to 650 pieces - Engraved track, lume on hands and lume dots around dial, unique font


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

krakle said:


> How would you know that all reissues from various factories use genuine Seagull movements? There are reproductions of st1901 movements that are not made by Seagull.


You will need to back up a claim like that. Who exactly is it that makes ST19 movements besides Sea-Gull?


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Where is your proof of this?



krakle said:


> How would you know that all reissues from various factories use genuine Seagull movements? There are reproductions of st1901 movements that are not made by Seagull.


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