# Designing and making my first watch based around an ETA 6498



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

A few months ago I decided I would have ago at designing and making my own watch, well the case anyway at least. I did some research and went through loads of pics of watches and saving the ones that I liked and ones that had features that I would like on my watch, or my interpretation of them. My Dad has a Stauer Graves with the single lug and I liked the way it looked so that is to be one of the main features of the outer case. I wanted the inner case to have a bit of depth, I liked the look of a 'NOA' with the short hands and the 3D hour markers so kind of used that as the influence to design the chapter ring in mine accept mine would be solid and be part of the case. I wanted to CNC the whole case out of one billet of material with just a simple back to keep everything tucked away inside, I will be making the back in perspex for the prototype, it would be nice to get it made in sapphire glass but i'm not sure that will be possible. The prototype case will be aluminium and the final design in Titanium if all works out OK. I'm going for the ETA 6498 as it will be a 44mm watch and I don't want the movement to look lost in a case of that size, plus there is something about how simple the movement is that appeals to me, I'm probably going to remove the tiny second hand so it doesn't clutter the dial up which will be minimalist anyway but I will try a few dial designs to see what I like.

Anyway, here are a few pics of where I am at the moment. any comment or feedback is most welcome, I'm new at designing watches to I'm all ears

































below, the two stages of machining the case









I popped a bit of carbon fiber is to see how its looked as a dial....


----------



## Arie Kabaalstra (Nov 24, 2013)

> it would be nice to get it made in sapphire glass but i'm not sure that will be possible.


i don't see why it should not be possible.. :-d

I'm a bit ahead of you i guess.. having made several watches already..
First of all, i like to applaude you on the design, and the choise of movement.. the ETA/Unitas 6498-1 ( with Seconds hand at 6 o'clock ) is a very nice movement in deed.. originally devellopped as a pocketwatch movement she has proven her right for existance over the years..

you really shouldn't hide her beauty behind a solid caseback..
I do however, have a concern about the method of attaching the back to the case.. only 2 screws can cause the back to warp and leak.. a press-on back, or better yet a screw-back is a better way in my opinion.. i recently restored 2 watches with a press-on back, and they both are waterresistant again..

I plan to make screw-backs for my own watches..

About installing a sapphire crystal.. you can order those with gasket rings.. so if you want a 36 mm sapphire crystal of 1.3 mm thickness in the back, proceed as follows:

Standard gasket-rings are 0.3mm wide.. so add 0.6 mm to the crystal diameter, and make a recess of 36.6 mm in the caseback, and an opening of 35.4, leaving a 0.3mm ledge for the crystal to sit on..

Putting in the crystal is done in the same way as the front.. pressing it in..

this is not very hard to do.. i once made a crystal caseback for a Breitling Navitimer..and i even had to make the gasket myself.. not very hard to do, you only need very sharp tools when turning Delrin, and some decent measuring equipment.. 
https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/making-display-caseback-974524.html










I like the design of your watch.. it 's a bit of a Tech-dresser.. i like those central lugs for the strap..gives a dab of elegance to the design..


----------



## The Guvnah (Nov 9, 2011)

Ain't CNC wunnerful?

You certainly know how to push The Guvnah's buttons Mark, I'm a sucker for those uncompromisingly circular 'billet' case shapes, I'm working on my own at the moment. Your third photo in particular has given me another idea, at first glance the rendered reflections suggested that the case sides were tapering inwards from the back to dial side, very interesting, and then I looked again and saw that they're parallel. I'm liking that lugging solution too but like Arie I saw your '2 screw' caseback fixing and thought "well I wouldn't be diving with it." I don't think you'd get much flexure if it's made sufficiently thick but I still wouldn't be relying on that arrangement to maintain a seal if you're intending to endow it with anything more than basic ingress protection say for washing hands, getting caught in a rain shower, spillage of the pint etc.

Nice looking thing though and I'd wear it no problem. Good stuff. |>


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks for the replies guys 

The two screw back is a bit suspect but I wanted to give it a try, its 3mm thick so in Ti it should not bend but I don't plan on going in the water in it. As I said in my first post,I would like the whole back made in sapphire glass with a custom gasket, I cant see how I can get a piece of it ground to the shape I want, a Perspex one will do for now. I didn't go for a screw back basically because I don't have access to a decent lath for screw cutting, only CNC milling machines. Im going to work on the dials over the next week or so and try some ideas out


----------



## Arie Kabaalstra (Nov 24, 2013)

With that shape, a sapphire crystal must be glued in.. in a "normal" caseback, with a round crystal, you can just press it in.. no problem.. 
mounting a crystal with screws through the crystal, is not a good idea.. you can however do that with a plexi crystal..


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks Arie, I think I will be going for a screw in back now with a crystal, I trying to locate a local company to make them for me, because I'm in the trade (CAD/CAM engineer) I have a few places in mind that can these for me. Ive been given a a bar of Titanium, enough to get about 5 out, chance to expriment with finishes, talking of which i've done a few renders, let me know what you think. Ive added my logo, I was going to add some numbers but I think it may look cluttered, Im a fan of the minimul look so this kind of suits my style.

two prototype cases, front and back







case with chinese copy of an ETA 6498







renders of variouse finishes


----------



## Arie Kabaalstra (Nov 24, 2013)

I have noticed that Titanium looks great however you finish it.. i use grinding and polishing, since i do not yet have a beadblaster.. 

a Caseback is quite easy to make.

A Sunburst grind would look good on the front i guess..


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

I agree, a sun burst grind would work, I've seen you thread on making a case back and you did it on there, looks cool dude, nice one


----------



## Arie Kabaalstra (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks.. but that caseback just had to match the übercoolness of the VENUS movement.. 

i am a fan of Sunbursts.. love to make em, love to see them play with sunlight.


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

I made some backs for my project watch today, I used perspex and some 3mm carbon fibre sheet. The pespex isnt doing for me and I dont think the carbon one works with the plain silver of the ally, I may get one anodised black, it might look better..... Im definetly going for a screw on back for the final design. As well as Titanium, I think im going to make one in Bronze and tumble it with a few stones to bash it up a little and the bury it in the garden for a few moths to age it. I might also get some pre preg carbon fibre and make a chunk around 15 thick and CNC one out of that, you get some nice patterns as you cut through the layers, Ive seen the Schofield Black lamp and that looks fantastic machined from a lump of carbon fibre.

some pics of todays efforts, comments and feedback alwas welcome


----------



## The Guvnah (Nov 9, 2011)

MarkDaniels said:


> Thanks Arie, I think I will be going for a screw in back now with a crystal,


That's actually a shame because that 2 lobed caseback fills the back of the watch really nicely, I like it a lot despite the implications for its IP rating. That is of little relevance however seeing that it's not a tool diver or suchlike and it should easily maintain a 5atm rating in that form sufficient for surface wear.










Of the render options this would be the one for me with the 'orange on tan' as a close second. Don't know if it's intentional but my monitor shows it as a pale, champage gold 'nitrided' sort of finish that I really do like a lot. In fact I think I can see me employing this pale gold colour for the anodising on my unit. If I didn't know better I'd still swear blind there's a taper on the case but this time tapering towards the back??

View attachment 1567318


Logo perhaps a little too large and the minute marks look somewhat estranged on that stark white dial but look more 'integrated' on the orange/black dial. But I'm liking this more and more.


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks for reply Guv, it's surposed to be gold but it does look a little pale. The dial is metallic cream to compliment the gold, I'll probably get it bead blasted then get one anodised in gold and one black. The dials will be in 0.5mm brass and engraved with my logo and minute markers 0.2 deep which will be painted black. 
The area you speak of is not tapered, it just looks that way at some angles, the light plays tricks with some of the renderings


----------



## The Guvnah (Nov 9, 2011)

MarkDaniels said:


> Thanks for reply Guv, it's surposed to be gold but it does look a little pale...


...and all the better for it. I just don't reflexively go for in-yer-face gold watches but that light straw colour is perfect, different too, well either way thanks for finally settling my "how am I wanting to finish this case?" quandry for me. :-!


----------



## Arie Kabaalstra (Nov 24, 2013)

You don't have to bury bronze or brass in the garden to give it a nice patina.. there's an easy way..

if you happen to have family or friends with a cattle farm.. just hang the part in the stable.. fumes from Animal excrement contain ammonia, which turns the copper alloys to a nice aged look in a matter of days...

when in a hurry?.. just take an empty marmelade jar, and put some household ammonia in it.. half a cup will do nicely...hang the watchcase inside the jar with a piece of string.., make sure the watch doesn't touch the ammonia directly.. couple of minutes, and you'll see the patina appearing.. it is that fast..

I once made a "Factory plate" for a scalemodel of a locomotive..










Fresh from the machine..










after some 15 minutes of exposure to Ammonia fumes and surfacegrindig the high parts..


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks for that Aire, i'm learning all the time  would you know if its Phosphor bronze or just Bronze that they use for watches? I want to order some and get to work on a bronze watch in the next week, programs are done and the jigs are ready. I've ordered some copper for the dial


----------



## Arie Kabaalstra (Nov 24, 2013)

I believe "regular"Bronze is used.. but Aluminium bronze would also do nicely, it is quite durable.. even as hard as steel.. Aluminiumbronze is used for explosion safe tools.. since bronze will not create sparks

Phosphor Bronze is quite reddish in color, and it makes for a "copper like"patina, since it is much harder than copper, you could also use that for a dial, and.. it can be polished to a high gloss finish, or Sunburst ground to get a nice "light show"..

Make sure you don't use "leadbronze" which is used for plain bearings.. Lead is not a material you want to use in something you wear on your wrist every day..


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks Arie, I've done some research and found some of the big boys use CuSn8 Bronze which over here in the UK is BS PB104 which is Phosphor bronze so I'm going to use that. I'm buying enough to make 7 cases, 3 are already spoken for


----------



## The Guvnah (Nov 9, 2011)

I'd previously tried to source a few chunks of ally bronze for my project but failed locally. It has that light straw colour to it that I like and is extremely resistant to corrosion. I believe it's the alloy that jewellers prefer and recommend due to its reduced allergenic potential compared to the other copper alloys. That's great but it will also reduce the development of that deep brown natural (statuesque) patination if that is the intented finish. In fact I'm not even sure that ally bronzes even develop much patination at all? Arie??


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

CuSn8 seems to be the stuff they use but I'm getting mixed up info, it's used to make cymbls which don't seem to discolour and are a pale brass colour but I like the red 'copper' colour which is phosphor bronze which CuSn8 is surpose to be a type of !!! I'm a bit mixed up on this so as long as it has that red tinge to it and NO LEAD in it I'll be going for that...... I think....


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

Here are a few renders of how the bronze case will look, i've tried to give it a Nautical feel, see what you think...


----------



## PeterK. (Jan 4, 2014)

wow sign me on that case as well it will work great with my compass rose dial Im working on.


----------



## Arie Kabaalstra (Nov 24, 2013)

I think it looks nice.. the clean lines.. and simple, yet well engineered design.. i like it. 

it clearly shows you know a thing or two about engineering.. the integrated indexes look nice.. and there's a little fillet where they meet the case.. just like it would appear when milling the part..|>


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks for the replies, I'm glad you like the new design, I'm really happy with it. I once was a toolmaker, then a patten maker before moving in to CAD/CAM about 20 years ago. 
I've got four dials made in brass and they fitted first time, I just de-burred and popped one straight in  I'll get one painted the weekend


----------



## Arie Kabaalstra (Nov 24, 2013)

Nice!.. you could put Lume in the minute-indices.. and.. sunburst grind the dial..


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

*'work in progress' prototype made *

I've finaly made a 'work in progress' prototpe to play with and ponder over. Its great to have somthing you have designed and made, I've worn it every day since I put it tgether three days ago. The dial needs painting or something or another one made of a different design, the strap is just one I chopped up to fit and does not realy work looks wise, it needs to taper from 24mm to 18mm over 25mm. The back is perspex and held in with the two 2mm screws. the glass gasket is crap, it needs to be black but only comes in natural colour. the case i shot blast and I had it anodised matt black, I think it works with this design. The stem needs to be cut to length and the proper winder and tube fited. Any thoughs and coments greatley appricianted


----------



## The Guvnah (Nov 9, 2011)

*Re: 'work in progress' prototype made *



MarkDaniels said:


> I've finaly made a 'work in progress' prototpe to play with and ponder over.


+++ Solid models and renders only tell so much, you can't interact with an on-screen image in the same way as you can with even the rawest of prototypes.



MarkDaniels said:


> the strap is just one I chopped up to fit and does not realy work looks wise,


See what you mean. Whilst we're in that area I was thinking back to one of your earlier pics which had a more purposful looking strap bar...









At their current size I think the rebated end treatment doesn't look anywhere near as strong and coherent as the plain cylindrical bar ends on this. Maybe increase their diameter a fraction so that the bar ends appear noticably larger than the diameter of the strap and then the rebated style would work better visually. They look a bit undersized to my eye anyway alongside that meaty buttressed case and your design is certainly strong enough to carry something more solid.


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

*Re: 'work in progress' prototype made *

Thanks for your coments Guv  I was thinking the same about the bar ends, they need to be a bit meaty. The ones that I have use are 3.2 dia so im thinking of using two 2mm cap heads the same as the ones I've used to hold the perspex back on, they have a 4mm dia X 2mm thick head. I could us 12mm long cap heads and tap out the lug on the body and screw direct into that, ill give it a go 

Here is the effect i'm going for, sort of (I would love this watch)


----------



## Arie Kabaalstra (Nov 24, 2013)

The Guvnah said:


> I'd previously tried to source a few chunks of ally bronze for my project but failed locally. It has that light straw colour to it that I like and is extremely resistant to corrosion. I believe it's the alloy that jewellers prefer and recommend due to its reduced allergenic potential compared to the other copper alloys. That's great but it will also reduce the development of that deep brown natural (statuesque) patination if that is the intented finish. In fact I'm not even sure that ally bronzes even develop much patination at all? Arie??


Oops.. Missed this one.. have been busy with a watchproject of my own lately.. limited run of max. 99 pieces.. We will use an Unitas 6498-1 as well..

Patina wise.. i think that every Copper ally ages differently.. a quick exposure to Ammonia fumes will tell you how the patina will devellop.. 
It is the copper part of the alloy that will show patina, the other elements ( Tin, Aluminium or Phosfor) will not change color that much.. so, basically, if you have like a "high grade" alloy, with a higher percentage of other metals besides Copper.. they will darken less.. i expect.


----------



## DDimitrov (Dec 1, 2012)

Hi Mark,
I love the combination of the round case and those deep markers. Reminds a lot of watches from the 70s. If markers are highlighted or more visible will be great without the need for minute indications. It will be great to put tritium tubs on markers. Because it's hard to describe exactly how I see it, I allowed myself to paint on your picture. This of course is just my opinion not want to intrude. I hope you like my version.


Regards,
Dimitar


----------



## APGuy1 (Jul 18, 2013)

Hi mate, 


It would be great if you used Super Luminova lume on the hour markers. Also if you where to use different surface finishes on the watch so you have like a circular brush effect next to high mirror finish. That contrast would be stunning !! 

also whilst the dial is on the CNC try doing a circular interpalation that goes from the centre out. I think a 5-8mm Flat end mill tool would give a nice swirl effect. Then perhaps increase the feed on the tool so the stepover is quite large. Then paint over it matte black and you would see a slight swirl  

Looking forward to seeing this in person  

Regards,


----------



## MarkDaniels (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks for the comments guys  I've got some blue lume for the hour markers as suggested, the next time it comes apart I'll have a go at putting some on. As for the dial, I've got a few ideas I want to try and also replace the crystal gasket with a black nylon one 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## APGuy1 (Jul 18, 2013)

Hi mate, 


What is the case thickness, if i where you i would design in a bezel that is a friction fit or perhaps uses a click spring. 

If you decide to adapt the design and make it more like a diver watch this may be more applicable.


----------

