# Blacklisted Watch Brands



## IvanDrago (Feb 7, 2012)

Hey everyone. I just thought it would be interesting to find out what watch brands you have personally "blacklisted", and why. I'll start. I will probably never buy a Stuhrling Original watch. To me, a company that can't *consistently* manufacture quality watches is not a company worth looking into!


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

Personally I won't buy another Suunto,have the M5,the chest strap broke only a few months after I bought it,and the battery life is horrible..the quality of the watch does not justify its price IMO


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## stratct (Jun 17, 2010)

This thread will get heated. But I hope not, I don't like stauer. I can get a cheap stauer with made up history, feel rich for about an hour, and have a crappy Chinese movement all for $100-$300 or I get get a seiko 5 for $55... Stuhrling is........overpriced. And are a step below invicta, at least invicta puts well known Japanese movements (mechanical) movements in their watches at the very least. I don't like these "brands" like Elgin or Gruen. They are only related by name. Not even a shell of what they were. Kenneth Cole is on my $/-/!+ list too...


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## Formerguide (Apr 12, 2011)

Man, this thread has an over/under of about 14 Invicta references prior to being closed...

OK, personally, I don't believe that there are any specific brands where I have made a conscious effort to "blacklist" as you say. Just a number of brands that are probably so far off my radar that it seems unlikely I'd ever partake. So, I will say U-Boat just to contribute. Too big, look clumsy to me, far too many watches for that amount of money that I'd prefer. Also, not a huge B&R fan...

Dan


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## ModestGP (Jul 15, 2008)

Synequano said:


> Personally I won't buy another Suunto,have the M5,the chest strap broke only a few months after I bought it,and the battery life is horrible..the quality of the watch does not justify its price IMO


Have several Suuntos and really happy with all of them.
The oldest I own is a 12 year old Suunto X6 and it still works flawlessly.
Only had one issue with an early version of a Core and it was replaced kindly by the superb Suunto customer service.
P.S. I don't work for Suunto, although I would be glad to do so.


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## gouverneur (Jun 7, 2012)

Big +1 for U-Boat. Some Bell & Ross pieces are actually pretty nice, though I'm just not a fan in general of these monstrous square watches.



Formerguide said:


> Man, this thread has an over/under of about 14 Invicta references prior to being closed...
> 
> OK, personally, I don't believe that there are any specific brands where I have made a conscious effort to "blacklist" as you say. Just a number of brands that are probably so far off my radar that it seems unlikely I'd ever partake. So, I will say U-Boat just to contribute. Too big, look clumsy to me, far too many watches for that amount of money that I'd prefer. Also, not a huge B&R fan...
> 
> Dan


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## aladin_sane (Mar 22, 2008)

stratct said:


> I don't like these "brands" like Elgin or Gruen. They are only related by name. Not even a shell of what they were.


You do realize that the current invicta company has nothing to do with the original Swiss company don't you? As you say, they are only related by name.

You may be falling for their made up history.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Adee Kaye
.
Adleron
.
Aeromatic 1912
.
Alado
.
Alvaro Amorosi
.
Anderson & Bryl
.
Andre Belfort
.
ANNO 1827 Hamburg
.
Ascari
.
Astroavia
.
Baxx & Bloom
.
Bernadino
.
BOSCE
.
Bossart
.
Breytenbach
.
Buchner-Bovalier
.
Burgmeister
.
Cacalla
.
Calvaneo
.
Cantani
.
Carlo Gallucci
.
Cassini
.
Cavadini
.
Centia
.
Charles Conrad
.
Charles Delon
.
Chenevard
.
Claude Valentini
.
Constantin Durmont
.
Constantin Weisz
.
Davis
.
Denacci
.
Diamstar
.
Divinus
.
Donati
.
Donati Firenze
.
Emile-Frey
.
Enzo Bellini
.
Estana
.
Feinwerk
.
Firefox
.
FORESTIER & CIE
.
Francois-Rotier
.
Frederique Rothenberg
.
Gadison Stern
.
Galileo 1583
.
Gallucci
.
Glaswerk
.
Goer
.
Graf von Monte Wehro
.
Graf von Sponheim
.
Haas & Cie
.
Hamberg & Söhne
.
HB & Söhne
.
Heinrichssohn
.
INSIGNUM
.
Ivens & Söhne
.
J.Wendenburg
.
Jacques Cantani
.
Jaragar
.
Jeane Melaine
.
Jean Jacot
.
Juwelis
.
Karl Breitner
.
Khamaro
.
Kings & Queens
.
Königswerk
.
Kronwerk
.
Krug-Baümen
.
Laurine
.
Laurini
.
Lindberg & Goldmann
.
Lindberg & Sons
.
Linhart
.
Linnhoff & Lorenz
.
Lobor
.
LOEWENSTEIN
.
Louis Bolle
.
Louis Lobel
.
Louis Valentino
.
Louis Valon
.
Lucien Piccard
.
Lukado
.
Luv & Kush
.
Maria Giesen
.
Marina Militare
.
Medor
.
Meisterkrone
.
Meisterzeit
.
Michel et fils
.
Minoir
.
Moneque
.
MONTALE Paris
.
Montre Noble
.
Montres Allison
.
MZI
.
Newton & Sons
.
Nexus
.
Nomex
.
Olipai
.
Olivier Witteaux
.
Orkina
.
Oskar Emil
.
Ottimo
.
Pascal Hilton
.
Perigaum
.
Persopolis
.
Phobos
.
Pierrini
.
PIONIER
.
Pizzaro 1897
.
Raschke Glashütte
.
Rene Barton
.
Robert Frank
.
Rochmont
.
Roebelin & Graef
.
Romilly
.
Rothenschild
.
Röthlin
.
Rover & Lakes
.
Rüttli
.
Sachmann & Benz
.
Scheffler & Soehne
.
SwissStar
.
Tauchmeister
.
THEOREMA
.
Trias
.
Vandenbroeck & Cie
.
Wagner since 1948
.
Windgassen
.
Wührer & Sons
.
Yves Camani


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## Formerguide (Apr 12, 2011)

FYI, the first person who quotes Mike's entire list should get an immediate infraction, if only for my loss of bandwidth, haha!

Dan


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## MZhammer (Feb 27, 2009)

stratct said:


> This thread will get heated. But I hope not, *I don't like stauer*. I can get a cheap stauer with made up history, feel rich for about an hour, and have a crappy Chinese movement all for $100-$300 or I get get a seiko 5 for $55... Stuhrling is........overpriced. And are a step below invicta, at least invicta puts well known Japanese movements (mechanical) movements in their watches at the very least. I don't like these "brands" like Elgin or Gruen. They are only related by name. Not even a shell of what they were. Kenneth Cole is on my $/-/!+ list too...


+1

Stauer, Stuhrling Original and the likes that need to make up history to seem relevant... Toss in U-Boat and TW Steel for good measure and my new non-favorite... SISU!


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## Sodiac (Dec 6, 2008)

Wow, looks like Mike has been thinking about this for some time!


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## baronrojo (Jul 14, 2010)

Anything that is not an original design and meant to resemble another watch ("homage")...whatever brand that may be.


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## Seiko_Licker (Feb 17, 2012)

For me it's Stauer, Stuhrling Original, Invicta, Movado, U-Boat, Bell and Ross, and to add something new to the mix - Tissot.


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## weaverthebeaver (Jan 22, 2012)

All Russian brands

All Chinese brands

Also Breitling. Think they make such ugly watches.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2


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## omega1234 (May 17, 2012)

Any company who's main focus isn't watches, and (flame retardent suit at the ready) Rolex, not that I don't like their watches, but the recognition is just too much. I'd so much rather be wearing a JLC and everyone have no clue what it is.


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## weaverthebeaver (Jan 22, 2012)

stuffler said:


> Adee Kaye
> .
> Adleron
> .
> ...


Some of the makes you quote do not seem to exist? for example I can't find a watch made by 'luv & kush' as quoted on your extensive list.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

weaverthebeaver said:


> Some of the makes you quote do not seem to exist? for example I can't find a watch made by 'luv & kush' as quoted on your extensive list.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2


Do a bit more home work and you will find "Luv & Kush". 5 pages on ebay.

Not sent from any Smartphone or IPad, not using Tapatalk 1 or 2 or ForumRunner.


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## keybers (Feb 17, 2012)

stuffler said:


> Firefox


LOL, so it's not just a browser any more.

But wow, what a patience it must have required to collect the names of chinese no-names that have to put _some_ name on the face of their watches, so it's whatever they can come up with - and it's mostly something French-sounding, Italian-sounding, German-sounding or plain imitations of existing brands like this one:



stuffler said:


> Perigaum


(Girard-Perregaux, obviously)


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Perigaum


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## LosTresGatos (Nov 5, 2011)

Aside from the usual suspects, I've blacklisted Parnis due to bad personal experiences with the brand.

I know it's a crapshoot when it comes to their watches, but I've been unlucky the couple times I've ordered one (all IWC homages, maybe they're more suspect compared to the other designs). 

Anyway, their biggest watch is what - 50mm? Do you really want people to know that (at best) you have a 2 inch Parnis? ; )


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

MG Designs said:


> Have several Suuntos and really happy with all of them.
> The oldest I own is a 12 year old Suunto X6 and it still works flawlessly.
> Only had one issue with an early version of a Core and it was replaced kindly by the superb Suunto customer service.
> P.S. I don't work for Suunto, although I would be glad to do so.


I've bought several Suuntos over the years, over a dozen or so, actually more than that. Their customer service IMO is top notch. I've dealt with their office in Finland and the US.....their just on the ball, as far as the experience I have had.


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

seoulseeker said:


> For me it's Stauer, Stuhrling Original, Invicta, Movado, U-Boat, Bell and Ross, and to add something new to the mix - Tissot.


I think Bell and Ross gets a bad rap because of their later unconventional designs that look great on a wall or a desk, but their previous designs I think are very nice designed and built by Sinn I believe.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

> Do you really want people to know that (at best) you have a 2 inch Parnis? ; )


Most excellent!


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## DCOmegafan (Nov 2, 2010)

Perhaps the rule of thumb should be to avoid anything with a large difference between advertised MSRP and the actual price. You know, "this watch has a value of $1500, but it's yours now for a special price of $150." I see ads like this in magazines.


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## IvanDrago (Feb 7, 2012)

DCOmegafan said:


> Perhaps the rule of thumb should be to avoid anything with a large difference between advertised MSRP and the actual price. You know, "this watch has a value of $1500, but it's yours now for a special price of $150." I see ads like this in magazines.


I agree, that seems logical.


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## Carbon Everything (Sep 24, 2011)

Lum-Tec. 
The lume is the same as everybody else and the tech? Well that's not the same, it's below everyone else. 
I also refuse to buy any of these micro brand off the shelf knock off factory watches. 
Successful business plan for a micro- pick a watch style that most people covet but can't afford, copy it. Profit.


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## mikeynd (Dec 11, 2008)

Most homage watches.I never really went along with what's popular or in style.


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## gagnello (Nov 19, 2011)

Hublot. I can't believe any company that would sell those Dwayne Wade monstrosities for more than I could get a PP Calatrava for. Has anyone seen the Tutti Fruiti?!? All I have to say is the MSRP on that thing is 3 times more than a Grand Seiko Spring Drive Chronograph.........


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

The obvious ones, sure.

But I had another...one that might have gotten me blacklisted here.

Seiko.

But I had two bad ones in a row. A kinetic that wouldn't hold charge more than half a day (after going in for repairs twice) and a Perpetual Calendar that wouldn't change the date. It's always the fourth. Perpetually, that is. 

Then I joined up here, only to find that Seikos were actually held in high regard! I thought they were cheap junk. So I tried them again. Different class of pieces than the ones I had before. Mechanical, not quartz, with good accuracy and good build quality. And yet, none of them have lasted in the collection, despite having two Sporks and two Sumos, all four moving out within a few months. I'm still considering an MM300 down the line, but not for a while. So yes, they're good, but they didn't set my world on fire. Each one had a niggling little thing that made me want to get rid of them. But they're off the blacklist, for sure.

Oh, and there are a couple of others that aren't so obvious. Nothing personally experienced, but things I've seen here. Tutima--for not standing by the PVD coating that wore off within a month or so. Aquadive, for attacking a member so vehemently over some slight or something or other (the specifics have been lost to the depths of my memory and somewhere on the DWF, but the outrage is still there). Orient, for all the customer service horror stories. 

Oh dear. I think I might have been a bit too honest. Hope I didn't lose any friends on this one...


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## Drop of a Hat (Dec 16, 2011)

Raza said:


> The obvious ones, sure.
> 
> But I had another...one that might have gotten me blacklisted here.
> 
> ...


I respect your honesty bud.

Sent Via Tapatalk


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## SergeyR (Jun 6, 2011)

Hublot , you never gonna see it on my wrist . cant stand it , hate it more then U-boat .


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

Mike' list for a start. Then I will not buy Chinese untill I stop hearing about the quality problems.


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## WnS (Feb 20, 2011)

The ugly & expensive:

Kobold, Bell & Ross, Hublot, Audemars Piguet, Linde Werdelin, and U-Boat.


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## Carbon Everything (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm curious to know what Aquadive did to a member here. 
I refuse to by Doxa because of its BS they pull here.


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## KevinP. (Dec 24, 2011)

Steinhart, I had the absolute worst experience ordering from them. I placed an order an never recieved my watch. For 2 months they never responded to any e-mail even though I let them know the tracking wasn't working. The first contact they made with me in months was near the end of their allowed time to respond to my PayPal dispute. The package never arrived because it was returned to them (they wrote the wrong address), they had it for weeks but never bothered to let me know.

Aside from them there isn't any brand I would blacklist barring another frustrating experience.


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## forsberg (Feb 14, 2011)

Rolex - it's for people who wants to act rich to impress others.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

forsberg said:


> Rolex - it's for people who wants to act rich to impress others.


Happy to see an unprejudiced statement. 
Here's another one (as useless as yours, I know): Steinhart (Ocean) - it's for people who want to act rich to impress others but do not have the necessary money.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

stuffler said:


> Happy to see an unprejudiced statement.
> Here's another one (as useless as yours, I know): Steinhart (Ocean) - it's for people who want to act rich to impress others but do not have the necessary money.


How about this?

Panerai - for those who want to feel that they are better than Rolex owners.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

drunken monkey said:


> How about this?
> 
> Panerai - for those who want to feel that they are better than Rolex owners.


Not bad, Perigaum for the better pilot.


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## usa (Jun 25, 2012)

all FAKE "brands"


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## Leonine (Mar 27, 2012)

Any fashion brand
bell & ross
alpha
croton
pulsar
citizen (I know people will not agree on this one, I just can't be a citizen guy)


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## JP Chestnut (Apr 12, 2011)

IvanDrago said:


> Hey everyone. I just thought it would be interesting to find out what watch brands you have personally "blacklisted", and why. I'll start. I will probably never buy a Stuhrling Original watch. To me, a company that can't *consistently* manufacture quality watches is not a company worth looking into!


TAG. They've done such damage to their brand in my eyes, with their ugly quartz watches, that I would _*never *_spend good money on one of their nicer models. They are the ultimate "mall watch" brand to me, and embody parvenu in my mind. Sorry if you're a TAG fan...


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## Leonine (Mar 27, 2012)

I forgot to add movado


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## IvanDrago (Feb 7, 2012)

Leonine said:


> I forgot to add movado


Just curious, why don't people like movado watches?


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

Carbon Everything said:


> I'm curious to know what Aquadive did to a member here.
> I refuse to by Doxa because of its BS they pull here.


I'll do my best to dig it up. I was appalled at their behavior.

EDIT: Still looking. I thought I had a PM about it, but I might have deleted it.

EDIT 2: I found it.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f74/aquadive-back-609348.html

There's a reply on the second page that was of particular interest and that post is the reason I've closed the door on any future involvement with that brand or their products.

Mods, I hope this doesn't ruffle too many feathers. We're talking about blacklisted brands and that behavior was enough for them to enter that book. And I have an open mind about these things. It takes more than making watches that I think are ugly or overpriced, rather it has to be the company itself that I turn my back on, not just their products. There are companies that make watches that I don't like--like TW Steel or U-Boat or even much more exalted names that just don't appeal to me, like ALS or Patek or Cartier--and that I wouldn't buy, but I have nothing against the companies themselves. A blacklist of any kind is not something to be taken lightly and I do not take it lightly. I put my seal on any recommendation for or against anything that I make, and that's important to me, whether it be real life or this forum or others.


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## Him (Jun 26, 2012)

JP Chestnut said:


> TAG. ... [they] embody parvenu in my mind.


And that is bad to you? And you admit that publicly? Wow.

Let's explore the concept. In the 1950s and 1960s, the United States had a "Civil Rights Movement" to break down entrenched class barriers and help future generations _parvenir_. Preferential policies for university admission and hiring, special loans for members of certain classes who wished to be entrepreneurial, assistance in general to help people ascend the class hierarchy. Those policies were not always successful, but they helped millions of people become what you would characterize as parvenu. Were they wrong or bad? Sounds like that's what you are saying.

Anyway, Rolex embodies parvenu like no other company, period. Does that mean Rolex watches are bad?



IvanDrago said:


> Just curious, why don't people like movado watches?


The only reason I can think of is that their iconic watch, the Museum, was basically an unlicensed clone of someone else's design for the first 25 years they made them. They started making those watches in prehistoric times (ok, like 1950ish) and I guess it took a lawsuit or something to get them to pay the designer.

I work with someone who wears one. I think it appeals to him because of how stark and simple it is. He is an engineer and likes stripping things down to the absolute bare minimum needed to get the job done. The Museum does that...it's a watch that is entirely focused on one thing: time. Not water pressure, not light, not fine leather or noble metals or even exquisit craftsmanship. Everything takes a back seat to time. Time expressed as simply as possible. Most people find that single mindedness uncomfortable I guess.


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

Leonine said:


> citizen (I know people will not agree on this one, I just can't be a citizen guy)


I dislike Citizen for very unfair and very personal reasons. I'd never buy one myself, but they don't go on the "I'd never recommend" list.


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## Formerguide (Apr 12, 2011)

Raza said:


> I dislike Citizen for very unfair and very personal reasons. I'd never buy one myself, but they don't go on the "I'd never recommend" list.


I'll bite... Why's that?

Dan


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

Formerguide said:


> I'll bite... Why's that?
> 
> Dan


Someone in my family whom I dislike intensely loves Citizens. I will forever associate them with that person and it just sours me on them.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

stuffler said:


> Not bad, Perigaum for the better pilot.


I think we can come up with something similar for most of the popular brands.

Omega - for those who don't quite want to be as smug as the Rolex owner
TAG Heuer - for those who haven't done much research about watch makers
Heuer - for the TAG Heuer owners who have since done a little research about watch makers
JLC - for the Omega owner who wants to "upgrade"
Blancpain - for those who want a dive watch that they can brag about to Submariner owners
IWC - for those who want to brag about not having a Swiss watch
GLashutte - for those who want to talk to IWC owners about in-house/_manufacture_


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## Formerguide (Apr 12, 2011)

Raza said:


> Someone in my family whom I dislike intensely loves Citizens. I will forever associate them with that person and it just sours me on them.


Awesome. There's a potential Seinfeld episode in that somewhere, haha...

Dan


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Raza said:


> Someone in my family whom I dislike intensely loves Citizens. I will forever associate them with that person and it just sours me on them.


strangely enough, I would say that isn't far off from why many people don't like Rolex.


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## ken_sturrock (Oct 24, 2010)

IvanDrago said:


> Just curious, why don't people like movado watches?


Movado does tend to rely a lot on the Museum Watch ("borrowed" from a design by Nathan George Horwitt). I think that many WIS types don't like Movado because they are: widely available, kind of monotonous, recognized by the average slob on the street, usually lack complications and are typically quartz.

I have two automatic Movados though and I like them very much.

-Ken


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## Ecksdee (Jun 17, 2012)

Stauer and stuhrling, anything with the word "swiss" in its name (except victorinox swiss army, for obvious reasons) geneve (for the same reason) any brand that pretends to be something it isn't.


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

Formerguide said:


> Awesome. There's a potential Seinfeld episode in that somewhere, haha...
> 
> Dan





drunken monkey said:


> strangely enough, I would say that isn't far off from why many people don't like Rolex.


Well, this guy is my dad, so it's not as well adapted to comedic situations as you'd think. Plus, I never liked Seinfeld. I'm more of an Arrested Development guy. There's always money in the banana stand.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Raza said:


> Well, this guy is my dad, so it's not as well adapted to comedic situations as you'd think.


I don't know about that. I can imagine some guy who so desperately doesn't wants to be like his dad and goes to resent his dad and everything about him and the things he does/has, only to be exactly like his dad, only with different brands.
Not straight up comedy, more like a satirical, ironic kinda of thing.


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## Torrid (May 20, 2007)

Raza said:


> I dislike Citizen for very unfair and very personal reasons. I'd never buy one myself, but they don't go on the "I'd never recommend" list.


Same here. The style doesn't quite speak my language. Every one I have handled felt very high quality. I love simple divers and Citizens always feel a bit more complicated to me.


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## omega1234 (May 17, 2012)

Raza said:


> Well, this guy is my dad, so it's not as well adapted to comedic situations as you'd think. Plus, I never liked Seinfeld. I'm more of an Arrested Development guy. There's always money in the banana stand.


I wish that show never got cancelled.


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## fastward (Aug 6, 2010)

omega1234 said:


> I wish that show never got cancelled.


Slightly OT, but Netflix will be producing a new season of Arrested Development. Set to air in early 2013.


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## omega1234 (May 17, 2012)

fastward said:


> Slightly OT, but Netflix will be producing a new season of Arrested Development. Set to air in early 2013.


So I've heard, very excited.


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

omega1234 said:


> I wish that show never got cancelled.


It's coming back soon! The entire season is going to be released at once on Netflix.

On that day, you won't hear from me.


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## DEP21 (Jun 28, 2010)

stuffler said:


> Perigaum
> 
> View attachment 755874


Hahahaha, there must be 'interpretations' of features from about 5 different makers in that thing...


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## Barry.g (Jan 4, 2012)

Have to say this is one of the most negative and least constructive posts on a forum that I have encountered in quite a while..


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## Dancing Fire (Aug 16, 2011)

IvanDrago said:


> Just curious, why don't people like movado watches?


what is there to like about a Movado?


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## TristanZ (Jul 2, 2010)

Dancing Fire said:


> what is there to like about a Movado?


Oh, the 15 years or so of production when Zenith was putting a number of their superb mechanical movements in Movados. That's all...


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## Dancing Fire (Aug 16, 2011)

JP Chestnut said:


> TAG. They've done such damage to their brand in my eyes, with their ugly quartz watches, that I would _*never *_spend good money on one of their nicer models. They are the ultimate "mall watch" brand to me, and embody parvenu in my mind. Sorry if you're a TAG fan...


 TAG made it to page 3..what took so long?:-d


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## TristanZ (Jul 2, 2010)

stuffler said:


> Adee Kaye
> .
> Adleron
> .
> ...


A blacklist isn't a blacklist if it's pointless. Not one of those brands is manufactured for or marketed to WIS types. It's like saying you'd never buy a Chevy Cruze because it isn't a BMW 5 series. Of course it isn't... it isn't meant to be.


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## Carbon Everything (Sep 24, 2011)

Barry.g said:


> Have to say this is one of the most negative and least constructive posts on a forum that I have encountered in quite a while..


Negativity is entertaining. I love reading locked threads.


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## IvanDrago (Feb 7, 2012)

Raza said:


> Someone in my family whom I dislike intensely loves Citizens. I will forever associate them with that person and it just sours me on them.


You dislike them intensely, or they intensely love citizens? Sorry, had to ask


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## Scottish Steve (Sep 7, 2010)

Raza said:


> Orient, for all the customer service horror stories.


Do you in fact mean Orient Watch USA?
They are not in any way part of the Orient Watch Co.
I don't think OWUSA make that very clear,


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## Scottish Steve (Sep 7, 2010)

I too have now blacklisted Aquadive. Thanks Raza.
Of course, I have also blacklisted_ all _Swiss brands, with the probable exception of allowing myself to buy a second Certina or a smaller Hamilton.
But I can tell you with certainty that if I have/had the opportunity to buy a Japanese or German alternative, I'd far rather go for that.


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## ctyree0 (Jul 8, 2012)

New to posting here but have enjoyed reading threads here for sometime. I have personally blacklisted Debaufre watches due to bad experience. Purchased their Csar model several years ago and the watch only worked properly for a little over a year. I could never justify purchasing this brand of watch again.


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## ffeelliixx (May 22, 2007)

I believe in life without limitations. I would buy a watch from any brand if I liked the design.

I'm proud to say that I've owned and enjoyed watches of the following brands: Tag Heuer, a U-Boat clone Parnis, a Bell & Ross homage Lum-Tec, Fossil, Swiss Army, Swatch, Sottomarino Italia, Steinhart, Kenneth Cole, and Breitling. 

Someday I hope to find an Invicta that I like so that I can see what the buzz is all about. 

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2


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## Swingline888 (Sep 8, 2011)

Definitely Aquadive thanks to Raza's link. Their response was way out of line.


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## IvanDrago (Feb 7, 2012)

Barry.g said:


> Have to say this is one of the most negative and least constructive posts on a forum that I have encountered in quite a while..


Yes! I've achieved something!


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## asolare (Jun 28, 2012)

deleted


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## John372 (Jul 9, 2012)

Personally I won't buy another Suunto,have the M5,the chest strap broke only a few months after I bought it,and the battery life is horrible..the quality of the watch does not justify its price IMO​


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

IvanDrago said:


> You dislike them intensely, or they intensely love citizens? Sorry, had to ask


I dislike the person who loves Citizens.


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

Scottish Steve said:


> Do you in fact mean Orient Watch USA?
> They are not in any way part of the Orient Watch Co.
> I don't think OWUSA make that very clear,


Yes, probably.

Isn't OWUSA the customer service/distributor for Orient in the US?


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## Dwnshft (Mar 1, 2012)

Wow...I'm still kinda surprised at all the people that have had the bad luck with Sturhling, Croton, and Invicta. I have a Sturhling and a Croton both with zero issues and my wifes Invicta has had zero issues.


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## Jalez (Jun 22, 2012)

I've never owned an*****Invicta***** but know better than to purchase one just from 10 minutes of research.

*****Curtis & Co. Watches*****- ( rapper 50 Cent is part owner I believe, could be wrong)...they have a 4 Karat Diamond bezel watch that of course uses Mineral Crystal with a price tag of $10000+=p

*****Renato*****- nice looking overpriced TV brand, you can get a Certina/high end VSA/Hamilton/Tissot/Xezo/Tag Heuer/Steinhart Ocean Diver (numerous other micro brands) that are ALL much better quality for the money than these pieces of junk


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

:roll: Paul Baldin (Paolo Baldini) The Apex of Schlock, after 7 years, it still haunts me that I sold one. :-(

Grimoldi - if someone bought one, it was a hit or miss if the crown stayed on more than a month.

Anything that is Shanzhai


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## Mortiss (Jan 17, 2012)

Sottomarino for their Manta Gigante saw it , loved it And (Please don’t black list ME for this :roll: ) thought it could be a Seiko OM killer.


BUT have searched high N low all week to find a distributor to be told they were only available for a very short time & no longer made / available o| even thou their site claims it their current flagship.



So Blacklisted for creative misleading marketing. 



PS: Still love the OM.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

_*Invicta*_ - For all the reasons all of you are aware of, already.

_*Panerai*_ - You come up with a Limited Edition model for your extremely loyal fan base, and then you put some cheap as Hell movement inside of it while charging your loyal customers a ridiculous premium for it? And then only offer to put an appropriate higher-end movement into the L.E. for free because your cost cutting measure horribly backfired . . . Yeah, can't make it anymore obvious that Panerai is run by greedy scumbags. They won't see a penny of my money.

_*Swiss Legend*_ - It takes a pair of HUGE stones to blatantly lie to potential customers with a name like that!


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## RBrylawski (Aug 28, 2012)

I LOVE LOVE LOVED Arrested Development. If I got anything from this thread, it's that one of the best comedies of all time is coming back. Woo Hoo!


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## RBrylawski (Aug 28, 2012)

+1 on Swiss Legend. A friend ordered one for a rediculously low price and what he got was an overly large, colorful piece of poop, with a crystal that cracked the first time he dropped the watch.


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## geoffbot (Mar 12, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> _*Invicta*_ - For all the reasons all of you are aware of, already.
> 
> _*Panerai*_ - You come up with a Limited Edition model for your extremely loyal fan base, and then you put some cheap as Hell movement inside of it while charging your loyal customers a ridiculous premium for it? And then only offer to put an appropriate higher-end movement into the L.E. for free because your cost cutting measure horribly backfired . . . Yeah, can't make it anymore obvious that Panerai is run by greedy scumbags. They won't see a penny of my money.
> 
> _*Swiss Legend*_ - It takes a pair of HUGE stones to blatantly lie to potential customers with a name like that!


I don't think Panerai is blacklisted. I'm not a fan but plenty here are. They're priced at a premium, yes, but if people are happy to pay it then good for them.


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## Atoning Unifex (Aug 21, 2012)

I second that motion!
I'm subscribing to Netflix just for Arrested Development.
C'MON!!!!!


RBrylawski said:


> I LOVE LOVE LOVED Arrested Development. If I got anything from this thread, it's that one of the best comedies of all time is coming back. Woo Hoo!


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

Geoff,I like Panerai,however as stated by monochrome the case of oops movement for 417 is so stupid,solid caseback doesn't mean they can trick the fans into buying the undecorated 6497
I also have to say,Panerai's QC is not that good either,i remember reading somewhere,there is a case with 335 with no WR,and once it is fixed,there's a loose screw inside that scratching up the movements,crazy....


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

geoffbot said:


> I don't think Panerai is blacklisted. I'm not a fan but plenty here are. They're priced at a premium, yes, but if people are happy to pay it then good for them.


As the OP mentioned, these would be brands that individual members have blacklisted. Panerai is on my list for the reason mentioned above. Though I do realize that quite a few members are happy overall with the brand.


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## geoffbot (Mar 12, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> As the OP mentioned, these would be brands that individual members have blacklisted. Panerai is on my list for the reason mentioned above. Though I do realize that quite a few members are happy overall with the brand.


Fair enough - I do see your point.


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## Kittysafe (Nov 28, 2011)

Skagen - I like how thin the watch is, but the strap is crap.
Sturhling - looks tacky and overpriced.
Panerai - dishonest


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## jackruff (Jul 29, 2012)

omega1234 said:


> Any company who's main focus isn't watches, and (flame retardent suit at the ready) Rolex, not that I don't like their watches, but the recognition is just too much. I'd so much rather be wearing a JLC and everyone have no clue what it is.


Anyone who looks at your watch..about 0.009% of humanity knows what a JLC is and still doesn't give a crap but may admire it!!!!!


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## jackruff (Jul 29, 2012)

forsberg said:


> Rolex - it's for people who wants to act rich to impress others.


If we wanted to act rich and impress others do you really think we would buy a Rolex???... sorry you are right.....to impress people who know nothing about watches.....


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## jackruff (Jul 29, 2012)

Ok...OK...I had to stop reading this thread or it was going to go on and on and on....................................... I dislike all watches equally cos there are so many not in my collection....


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## Firmin (Jun 6, 2011)

Watchbreath said:


> :roll: Paul Baldin (Paolo Baldini) The Apex of Schlock, after 7 years, it still haunts me that I sold one. :-(
> 
> Grimoldi - if someone bought one, it was a hit or miss if the crown stayed on more than a month.
> 
> Anything that is Shanzhai


Shanzhai is the chinese word for knock off / homage I believe ?


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

Monocrom said:


> _*Panerai*_ - You come up with a Limited Edition model for your extremely loyal fan base, and then you put some cheap as Hell movement inside of it while charging your loyal customers a ridiculous premium for it? And then only offer to put an appropriate higher-end movement into the L.E. for free because your cost cutting measure horribly backfired . . . Yeah, can't make it anymore obvious that Panerai is run by greedy scumbags. They won't see a penny of my money.


This is the movement controversy mentioned above:

Paneristi Public Forum: The mysterious PAM318


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## VenatorWatch (Apr 23, 2012)

Luminox. Their Quality has had a steady decline over the years IMO. 

Bell & Ross. To me, just one of those watches that look really cool, but priced WAY too high for what they really are. 

Rolex. I don't think I will ever understand why a watch company with so many of the same model around can still be priced at what they are at and keep the values the way they do. I just don't get it. Granted, they make a timeless looking watch with excellent quality, however still, priced way too high. On top of that, you will pay an easy $1k to have the thing serviced... I am sure many would contest this, and no, I am not THE watch guru, but this is my opinion...

Hublot. Just plain obnoxious in my eyes...


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Knockoff not homage, I've used that work a number of times, it really fits. Real homage is something else.


Firmin said:


> Shanzhai is the chinese word for knock off / homage I believe ?


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

mike's list is spot on


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## Louis888 (Jun 3, 2012)

Tissot - made a horrendous rock watch decades ago. When I was a child there was a tv ad for this rock watch. Really hated that ad. This brand has been dead to me since then.

Swatch - only ever had one, and it died within a few days of the warranty expiring.


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## Atoning Unifex (Aug 21, 2012)

Thx for posting that link mleok.
That is shocking that a 'respected' brand would do something so cynical.
Let's hope this spreads and backfires on them in the only place that would hurt them.


mleok said:


> This is the movement controversy mentioned above:
> 
> Paneristi Public Forum: The mysterious PAM318


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## Chazman1946 (Jul 6, 2012)

IvanDrago said:


> Just curious, why don't people like movado watches?


Because the watch faces are too cluttered and busy.


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## *El Ocho 1* (Jan 7, 2009)

Lets see, for me it's any brand that doesn't specifically make watches. Those fashion brands that try to cash in one their name (Kenneth Cole, Guess, Gucci, D&G......). Cheapo brands, like Fossil (I have an awesome Fossil Belt & a Fossil wallet for about 6-7 years though)


Modern Movado - just dont like them. (and they're all quartz!)
Ebel - Never seen one I like
Hublot - Don't really like their design & waaaaaay too expensive. 

Brands that pretend to be REAL watch makers, but are just producing cheap, low quality watches: Sturhling Original, Stauer, Skagen & of course (please see my sig) Invicta


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## wilsonhui (Aug 1, 2012)

Don't really have a blacklist, but more of a very selective white list. Fashion watches gets a pass as long as they look good.
For my mechanical watches, the movement should match the country that the company is from and the XXX Made label should also match. E.g., If it has a Swiss movement then it should be from a Swiss company and say Swiss Made, etc.


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## new2oltime (Feb 20, 2011)

Hmmmm, lets see, if it costs more than $200.00 it's on my *Listo ****** and since I usually buy used watches from learned, previous owners like you guys & gals... I must be buying from the *good-list* right? I am happy to report that with very few exceptions my list is your list.


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## flitz40 (Aug 28, 2012)

Where do you get your information from? There's nothing like a quality Swiss watch. But because of technology it's not to hard to make an automatic watch that tells time well and for a long time. Seems to me any watch company that makes watches with Chinese movements and looks like a high end Swiss watch gets to many biased reviews


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## subsixwatches (Oct 1, 2012)

I have sold over 1000+ watches of all kinds and I have had the most problems with Crotons hands down. On the flip side I own 2 Croton Rugged divers which I love and work great. They are just a hit or miss brand and you get what you pay for.


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## IvanDrago (Feb 7, 2012)

Barry.g said:


> Have to say this is one of the most negative and least constructive posts on a forum that I have encountered in quite a while..


Achievement unlocked.


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## kenley760 (Apr 13, 2013)

Hello Mike, 
I have a Tauchmeister and love it. Have you had an issue with your own, or just knocking the brand from what you've read? Because mine has a Miyota movement made buy a department of Citizen that my watch smith said is a good movement and I have never had an issue with my Citizen watch either. So I'm curious as to why you feel it needs to be black listed?


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## Sabresoft (Dec 1, 2010)

stuffler said:


> Adee Kaye
> .
> Adleron
> .
> ...


Awe come- on you're just making that up <grin>.

Actually I have heard of a couple of them.


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## beobachtuhr (Apr 17, 2014)

Hey kenley, 
I also own a Tauchmeister, and very happy with it, so far. I bought it in Jan. '13 for less than 100 Euros, and it works just fine for me. Of course it's not high-end device, but I think for the price paid, it's a nice piece of quality! I also owned in the past some of the depreciated watches listed in this thread (Breytenbach, Lip, Burgmeister...), that just lasted a week or two... and IMO you can definitely tell the difference here!

My model is a T-0252; which model is yours? How can I know if it has some japanese movt. (myota or other), just like yours? 


Thanks for your post.

Regards


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## JPfeuffer (Aug 12, 2011)

Panerai. Use to LOVE Panerai. Their business ethics turned me off. Now I see them as a greedy corporate zombie brand (in a good way, there is more to them then that but that is merely my immediate thought). Sorry, no disrespect for Panerai owners, just my humble opinion.


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## davidtsee (Oct 24, 2012)

IvanDrago said:


> Hey everyone. I just thought it would be interesting to find out what watch brands you have personally "blacklisted", and why. I'll start. I will probably never buy a Stuhrling Original watch. To me, a company that can't *consistently* manufacture quality watches is not a company worth looking into!


Olivier?...

There. I said it.


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## s.erickson87 (Aug 4, 2012)

Rolex. I hate you for how much I want you. And for the fact that I couldn't spend 9,000$ and have anybody believe you were real.
Rolex, FU, I love you.


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## beobachtuhr (Apr 17, 2014)

Eventually I feel the need to make my own Blacklist, based on bad experiences (sadly more than one...):

- Burgmeister (lasted one night!!! Had all my money back the very next day, though)
- Breytenbach (very soon began to slow down, so had battery replaced... after a couple of days, same problem... so I decided to have it serviced, but no results! this was a real drag!)
- Croix du Sud (by Lip): this watch worked fine, also thanks to good japanese Epson movt. but claimed to Stainless steel... while it's clearly not! so I will put that on the list.
- Costantin Durmont (lasted 2 years, right on time for Warranty to expire and broke down the chinese Automatic movt.! I had to let it down) 

So YES, I had to learn it on my skin o|: cheap watches are not always crap (see the Tauchmestier I'm wearing now: affordable, nice, all stainless steel also did some snorkeling and it's still ok),
but the risk you are taking is huge. It's more of a challenge for me to find a watch that's affordable and reliable. I guess that's because I've always been a CASIO guy, in the past. 


Goo luck with your Blacklist!

Regards


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## panamamike (Nov 19, 2009)

stuffler said:


> Adee Kaye
> .
> Adleron
> .
> ...


Have you had personal experience with all of these brands, or is it because of their pedigree?


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## richnyc (Feb 21, 2013)

I really don't care what watches people put on their wrists, just please, know a little about them before trying to impress people around you... Loved when a friend of my buddy tried to tell us about his Invicta and convince us how it is comparable to $1-2K watches and what super deal he got on them... What a fool!! Had a hard time to restrain myself, LOL, almost burst out laughing...


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## Mike_Dowling (May 4, 2013)

There are a lot but I've learned people take that insult personally so it doesn't serve a purpose to list them.


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## zephyrus17 (Apr 11, 2014)

Mostly, for me, it'll be those that are an offshoot of a fashion brand, like Gucci, Chanel, Calvin Klein, etc. Another one is the group that tries to be something it's not. The ones that RRP for $1,500, but, "for your my friend ... best price!" and is let go for $500


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## ffeelliixx (May 22, 2007)

richnyc said:


> I really don't care what watches people put on their wrists, just please, know a little about them before trying to impress people around you... Loved when a friend of my buddy tried to tell us about his Invicta and convince us how it is comparable to $1-2K watches and what super deal he got on them... What a fool!! Had a hard time to restrain myself, LOL, almost burst out laughing...


Well, some of the Invictas do share the same ETA movements as much more expensive watches.

sent from my Note 3


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## Mike_Dowling (May 4, 2013)

ffeelliixx said:


> Well, some of the Invictas do share the same ETA movements as much more expensive watches.
> 
> sent from my Note 3


Many are even COSC certified, and you're right, many Invicta's have high quality eta movements. If they weren't so awful looking I would pick up a COSC certified Swiss watch for 500 bucks, well probably not but the point remains. Why is Hamilton selling a 7750 for $1500 fine but Invicta selling a watch with a COSC eta movement for $500 a joke?


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## mrwatchusername (Jun 10, 2013)

I don't like the look of Hublot and Panerai, so they're on my blacklist. That said, I use to say that about the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak, but I now desire it.

I also wouldn't buy a Tag Heuer. And this is primarily because of Archieluxury.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## NWP627 (Feb 24, 2008)

Mike, I have never heard of the majority of those "brands," thank you.


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## jaa1297 (Apr 7, 2014)

IvanDrago said:


> Hey everyone. I just thought it would be interesting to find out what watch brands you have personally "blacklisted", and why. I'll start. I will probably never buy a Stuhrling Original watch. To me, a company that can't *consistently* manufacture quality watches is not a company worth looking into!


Tissot is definitely on my blacklist. Oh, and Movado too. Just horrible quality...


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## bjjer (Oct 20, 2010)

I've only had a bad experience with Festina. I also tend to stay away from micro, overt Chinese and Japanese brands. With Japanese watches I know the value and quality associated with them I just haven't seen one that I visually like(yet).


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## Cobia (Nov 24, 2013)

Im sure theres some Invicta are ok watches, but i was looking at their site the other day, ive never seen so many cheap and tacky looking watches in the one place at the one time, so based on looks alone id never buy one lol.

But i love Citizen watches, great bang for buck with imo great quality for their price, same goes for Seiko, both modest working mans watches, down to earth brands, i like that in a watch.

I blacklist any brand that metro type guys buy as a status symbol..


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## locolockman (Jan 12, 2010)

Burberry, Brooks Brothers. I don't understand why they would think that people who pay for the quality of their clothes would want to spend money on a cheap pos watch because it has their name on it. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## Mark355 (Dec 25, 2012)

Tag. What a joke.


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## omega1234 (May 17, 2012)

omega1234 said:


> Any company who's main focus isn't watches, and (flame retardent suit at the ready) Rolex, not that I don't like their watches, but the recognition is just too much. I'd so much rather be wearing a JLC and everyone have no clue what it is.


Haha, since this I've owned 4 or 5 Rolex watches.


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## geoffbot (Mar 12, 2011)

Mark355 said:


> Tag. What a joke.


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## Mark355 (Dec 25, 2012)

I'm a troll because I stayed within the topic defined by the OP and refuse to spend thousands on a tarted up ETA movement with plastic retainer rings?

As you say.


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## geoffbot (Mar 12, 2011)

Mark355 said:


> I'm a troll because I stayed within the topic defined by the OP and refuse to spend thousands on a tarted up ETA movement with plastic retainer rings?
> 
> As you say.


I assumed you were joking! The only thing wrong with TAG is the ambitious msrp. You can get 30% off their eta models them you have a good watch for the money. Or buy one of their in house models.

TAGs r&d have more current technologies than any other manufacturer I can think of - mikrotimer, mikrograph, pendulum, belt drive etc.

You still may not like them, but I think blacklisting them is a little harsh.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

geoffbot said:


> I assumed you were joking! The only thing wrong with TAG is the ambitious msrp. You can get 30% off their eta models them you have a good watch for the money. Or buy one of their in house models.
> 
> TAGs r&d have more current technologies than any other manufacturer I can think of - mikrotimer, mikrograph, pendulum, belt drive etc.
> 
> _*You still may not like them, but I think blacklisting them is a little harsh.*_


I agree. However, I have to disagree regarding the MSRP being TAG Heuer's only issue. There are others. But for some bizarre reason.... folks who criticize the brand can't seem to articulate what those issues are. Often simply devolving into "TAG Heuer sucks!"

Being someone who can appreciate the things TAG Heuer does well, the recurring issues have kept me from getting the one TAG Heuer model I've wanted for quite awhile (a WAN2110, which quite frankly looks better than the current Rolex Submariner and doesn't come with that clownish cyclops).

TAG Heuer's R&D is indeed impressive. Unfortunately, it seems most of those great concept watches end up being just One-Offs that we can't buy. I get it, sometimes to generate buzz and publicity; companies build something just to simply show off what they can do. No intention of making that concept product in any large numbers for the consumer market. And that's fine.... As long as it's not done on a regular basis. Unfortunately, that's what TAG Heuer often seems to do.

A handful of other issues as well. To their credit, TAG Heuer has dealt with some of of them. Unfortunately, ignored others. I'm especially hopeful that the ones effecting the current model WAN2110 will be fixed. But fear that with the practically identical 500M ceramic bezel version currently in production, the 300M WAN2110 with its more pragmatic aluminum bezel is likely to be discontinued down the road.


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## hidden830726 (Oct 23, 2013)

Synequano said:


> Personally I won't buy another Suunto,have the M5,the chest strap broke only a few months after I bought it,and the battery life is horrible..the quality of the watch does not justify its price IMO


My Suunto Ambit 2s, battery cable head spoiled after one month use tho, but i fault myself for being not careful while using it. I bought a replacement cable and voila. I will still buy a Suunto because of its features and functions, but i will be more careful in the future. Especially their accessories.


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## geoffbot (Mar 12, 2011)

What's wrong with the WAN2110?


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

geoffbot said:


> What's wrong with the WAN2110?


Sorry Geoff, I thought you knew about the crown issues. Same problem that plagued the previous model, rubber bezel, 500M before TAG Heuer came out with the ceramic bezel current version. (In fairness, no reported crown issues with the current 500M model.) However, the crown issue on the older 500M was even worse than the 300M (WAN2110). After just absolutely refusing to cover the crown issue on the older 500M for quite awhile, even if the watch was still under warranty, seems TAG Heuer got enough complaints that they finally decided to cover it. (Instead of just labeling it as "Abuse by owner;" and refusing to do anything unless the owner paid about $300 to fix the stripped crown.)

Unfortunately that reversal of policy does not apply to the 300M. I've come close to pulling the trigger on a WAN2110 a couple of times. But each time I carefully manipulate the crown to set the proper time on the watch I'm examining, the crown feels flimsier than the one on my old Orient black Mako. Honestly on the Orient, a flimsy crown that feels like it could snap off unless you absolutely baby it; that's forgivable on an automatic watch that often retails for only $100. On a $2500 luxury timepiece?.... Regardless of brand, one expects better at that price-point, with regards to the crown.

Plus, open up an Aquaracer model; and inside is a big ugly black plastic, hollowed out, spacer. The sort found inside of $65 Seiko 5s and Seiko's Monster line (right around $200). Which makes no sense to me. Having consulted with an experienced and well-respected watchmaker, I learned that the main reason such fragile plastic spacers are used is as a cost-cutting measure. Once again, makes perfect sense on an inexpensive automatic in which the cost-cutting measure gets passed along to the consumer in the form of lower MSRP. But on a luxury watch?

I just honestly don't understand why a luxury watch has a flimsy crown that is similar to one found on a much less expensive watch. Plus, incorporates a vital feature commonly found on much less expensive watches too. That makes no sense to me. You and I both understand that with luxury watches, there is no direct correlation between price vs. features. Still, despite the fantastic restrained good-looks of the TAG Heuer WAN2110; I have a hard time seeing even a very indirect correlation between the asking-price and what one gets in exchange for it. (With regards to that particular model.)

If it had a more durable metal spacer and a somewhat beefed-up crown tube, you'd get sick of seeing pics. of my new WAN2110 posted all over the place on WUS. (Heck, I'd still buy one if TAG Heuer at least offered the type of warranty protection for the crown as they do on the older 500M model.)


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## geoffbot (Mar 12, 2011)

I had heard something about stripping a crown but not to the point that it was an epidemic. Thanks for the detailed response Dave


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## Bud001 (Dec 18, 2008)

My personal blacklist are "mushroom brands": old European brands that are bought up by American and Asian companies for the sole purpose of selling cheaply made watches with inflated MSRP and manufactured histories.

Those offenders include Invicta, Ingresoll (sp?), Lucien Picard, and many many others. 

Other black list brands are brands that rely on bling instead of horology, like Jacob&co.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

There're not mushroom, there're zombie. Checkout the Jacob - Quenttin.


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## Bud001 (Dec 18, 2008)

sorry, "zombie brands". I stand corrected.


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## Inca Bloc (Nov 27, 2013)

Festina : i bought one and the hands were bend, so when they crossed eachother they got stuck. QC? Festina never heard about QC. The jeweler was kind enough to have me swap the Festina for a Seiko...


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> TAG Heuer's R&D is indeed impressive. *Unfortunately, it seems most of those great concept watches end up being just One-Offs that we can't buy*. I get it, sometimes to generate buzz and publicity; companies build something just to simply show off what they can do. No intention of making that concept product in any large numbers for the consumer market. And that's fine.... As long as it's not done on a regular basis. Unfortunately, that's what TAG Heuer often seems to do.


nonsense.


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## ffeelliixx (May 22, 2007)

locolockman said:


> Burberry, Brooks Brothers. I don't understand why they would think that people who pay for the quality of their clothes would want to spend money on a cheap pos watch because it has their name on it.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


Brooks Brothers clothes are greatly overrated. Hickey Freeman all the way.

But I digress...

sent from my Note 3


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## locolockman (Jan 12, 2010)

Brooks Brothers button down oxfords in heavy pima cotton are some of the finest shirts you can buy. I like HF also. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

Louis Vuitton, guess, Michael Kors, Stauer. 25hours, Ralph Lauren, Oakley


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

locolockman said:


> Burberry, Brooks Brothers. I don't understand why they would think that people who pay for the quality of their clothes would want to spend money on a cheap pos watch because it has their name on it.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


Burberry is not very good. I have their vintage Burberry's stuff which is a lot better.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## hyuaki (Apr 19, 2014)

I'm new to collecting and thus far my collection is extremely modest. However I do have a couple of brands on my blacklist. They are Bulova and Fossil. The reason is that they do not have anything appealing to me.


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## geoffbot (Mar 12, 2011)

hyuaki said:


> I'm new to collecting and thus far my collection is extremely modest. However I do have a couple of brands on my blacklist. They are Bulova and Fossil. The reason is that they do not have anything appealing to me.


They're not blacklisted - don't worry; someone just doesn't like them, which is inevitable with any brand.


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## hyuaki (Apr 19, 2014)

There is also the Chinese brand :Youyoupifa. They are downright dreadful.


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## tunturi (May 3, 2014)

Sorry but "blacklist" for watches shows only some elitär ignorans of collectors. Just at the list from mike there are also interesting peaces. 
Also a cheap watch can do the job - shows the time. Some are funny, nice looking, verry cheap but also technical interesting.
I have a blacklisted Orkina. The watch is well made also at detail: good dial, nice blue hands with ilumination, date and day also 24 hour. Mineralglas front and back, movement automatic with 21 jewels, incablock protection. And for 20€ you get the litle jouke "Swiss design" to. What to h... is wrong with that? 
Why blacklisting factorys who try there best and thats for a price you never get a single screw from thouse elitewatchfactorys.
Blacklisting has to be banned, thats only intolerance. hi


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

tunturi said:


> Sorry but "blacklist" for watches shows only some elitär ignorans of collectors. Just at the list from mike there are also interesting peaces.
> Also a cheap watch can do the job - shows the time. Some are funny, nice looking, verry cheap but also technical interesting.
> I have a blacklisted Orkina. The watch is well made also at detail: good dial, nice blue hands with ilumination, date and day also 24 hour. Mineralglas front and back, movement automatic with 21 jewels, incablock protection. And for 20€ you get the litle jouke "Swiss design" to. What to h... is wrong with that?
> Why blacklisting factorys who try there best and thats for a price you never get a single screw from thouse elitewatchfactorys.
> Blacklisting has to be banned, thats only intolerance. hi


You clearly missed the theme of this topic. But welcome to WUS anyway.


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## gagnello (Nov 19, 2011)

tunturi said:


> Sorry but "blacklist" for watches shows only some elitär ignorans of collectors. Just at the list from mike there are also interesting peaces.
> Also a cheap watch can do the job - shows the time. Some are funny, nice looking, verry cheap but also technical interesting.
> I have a blacklisted Orkina. The watch is well made also at detail: good dial, nice blue hands with ilumination, date and day also 24 hour. Mineralglas front and back, movement automatic with 21 jewels, incablock protection. And for 20€ you get the litle jouke "Swiss design" to. What to h... is wrong with that?
> Why blacklisting factorys who try there best and thats for a price you never get a single screw from thouse elitewatchfactorys.
> Blacklisting has to be banned, thats only intolerance. hi


Huh?

Sent from my SGP311 using Tapatalk


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Screws cost less than you think, even if they are swiss made.


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## Corey Runkel (Apr 22, 2014)

is the u-boat hate simply for looks? btw not a u-boat fan, there just seems to be significant unkindness towards such a small brand


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## smb (Jun 5, 2010)

All designer watches sold in department stores, all watches over 42mm, all watches with chronographs, which still leaves me with all quality brand watches.


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## Bud001 (Dec 18, 2008)

smb said:


> All designer watches sold in department stores, all watches over 42mm, all watches with chronographs, which still leaves me with all quality brand watches.


Some department stores sell good watches too. Bloomingdale's sell Fredrique Constant among others.


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## I gotafevergntlemen (Jan 5, 2014)

Dont care for any watches from Der Haus of fashion or designer brands,you know Michael Kors,Gucci,Guess,Armani anything from any company that doesnt specialize in nothing but watches.If their specialty is jeans,hand bags and shoes and they make watches as a side project count me out.Oh and anything from a brand called Millage way overpriced quartz watches.For what this company screws you on the msrp of a quartz watch you could pick up a very nice genuine Swiss auto for the same price!!!!!


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## WatchesinIL (Mar 24, 2014)

As of today I own two Omegas. One Seiko. As well as an Invicta and a Stuhrling.

If I see a watch I like, I buy it. And I'm not ashamed. I will put the Stuhrling in my signature right next to the Omega. 

It is silly to claim some sort of superiority by publishing a blacklist on an internet forum, as if that proves your tastes are more refined, or somehow you hold a secret of knowledge over others.

I knew exactly what I was getting with the Stuhrling. A Chinese-assembled watch with a Chinese movement. I wanted it anyway.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

newbieinIL said:


> .... I knew exactly what I was getting with the Stuhrling. A Chinese-assembled watch with a Chinese movement. I wanted it anyway.


Nothing wrong with that at all.

It becomes an issue when members of the general public are tricked into buying watches from that brand because of not just deceptive marketing practices, but outright Fraud due to....

A completely fabricated/made up company history that makes it seem like a very old and respected Swiss brand with numerous innovations and advances during its non-existent centuries of watch-making.

Yes, it's a Chinese brand. Nothing wrong with that. But for a brand to just outright lie and blatantly deceive their customers into thinking they're getting something that they're not? Well, that's blatant Fraud. And if they weren't based in China, the brand would have been sued out of existence years ago. Nothing to do with the quality of their watches or whether or not they make good-looking watches that appeal to consumers. Nothing to do with any of that.

Many choose to put that brand on their blacklist not out of snobbery or a sense of superiority. Just one reason.... Blatant, disgusting, Fraud that is a hallmark of how the brand does business. Sorry, but with some brands; it's no surprise that they're on individual members' personal blacklists.


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## Rallyfan13 (Feb 23, 2013)

Marcelo C., Christopher Ward, Minerva, boutique divers et al.


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## hyuaki (Apr 19, 2014)

Please don't misunderstand me. I am the type who appreciates the history and story behind a company or particular watch, but that being said, if I like it I will buy it regardless. The primary two brands I dislike are Invicta (I'm new there) and Casio (bad experience).

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk


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## WatchesinIL (Mar 24, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> Nothing wrong with that at all.
> 
> It becomes an issue when members of the general public are tricked into buying watches from that brand because of not just deceptive marketing practices, but outright Fraud due to....
> 
> ...


You know what, I guess that's fair.

I did my research before the purchase (it's what brought me to WUS) and I thought $99 was a fair price for a cool looking Chinese made skeleton automatic. And I think it's silly to judge people who make that decision. If they are informed of what it is they are buying.

I too found stuhrling's promotional materials misleading, but anyone with an internet connection can see for themselves what exactly they are buying.


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## frogger17 (Mar 8, 2013)

tunturi said:


> Sorry but "blacklist" for watches shows only some elitär ignorans of collectors.
> 
> Blacklisting has to be banned, thats only intolerance. hi


Everybody bail! It's the...


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## Bud001 (Dec 18, 2008)

I gotafevergntlemen said:


> Dont care for any watches from Der Haus of fashion or designer brands,you know Michael Kors,Gucci,Guess,Armani anything from any company that doesnt specialize in nothing but watches.If their specialty is jeans,hand bags and shoes and they make watches as a side project count me out.Oh and anything from a brand called Millage way overpriced quartz watches.For what this company screws you on the msrp of a quartz watch you could pick up a very nice genuine Swiss auto for the same price!!!!!


Mmmm that might become a problem when some brands branch out to watches. Mont Blanc was (and is still) a company for pens but they have produced remarkable watches some even have their own movements.
Dior has also produced some interesting pieces, like the one with a feather rotor on the dial.

For that matter, Victorinox makes reliable solid time pieces that get recommended a lot in WUS. They didnt start out making watches either (hint: its a cutlery firm).

When i posted my black list i thought about putting "fashion brands" on the list to cover all, but because not all "fashion" brands are the same, i can no longer say its the case.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

Bud001 said:


> Mmmm that might become a problem when some brands branch out to watches. Mont Blanc was (and is still) a company for pens but they have produced remarkable watches some even have their own movements.
> Dior has also produced some interesting pieces, like the one with a feather rotor on the dial.
> 
> For that matter, Victorinox makes reliable solid time pieces that get recommended a lot in WUS. They didnt start out making watches either (hint: its a cutlery firm).
> ...


Montblanc and Dior would be the exception to the rule regarding fashion brands. As for Victorinox, my personal experience has been the opposite of many WIS. Owned multiple models from different retailers. Silly Q.C. issues with each one. (In one case, the case itself was actually cut lopsided. Meaning one corner of the case pressed painfully into my wrist and slowly cut off circulation. First time I wore the watch during an 8-hour shift, my hand looked like something you'd see on a cold cadaver that has been lying on a slab in the morgue.)

Meanwhile, I own multiple Victorinox knives. Excellent quality. No issues with any of those.


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## yourdudeness080 (Jan 6, 2011)

NIXON
MICHAEL KORS
STHURLING
AEROMATIC
IKEPOD
INGERSOLL
NOOKA
REBOSUS
RETROWERK
UBOAT
WELDER
TACUHMEISTER
VESTAL
ZODIAC


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## Rallyfan13 (Feb 23, 2013)

I confess I like the font used by Aeromatic, and I like Zodiacs.


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## LHF1120 (Apr 22, 2012)

Zodiacs aren't half bad. I liked their Seadragon series.


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

1. Invicta
2. Invicta
3. U-Boat
4. Quartz Watches
5. Chinese Watches


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## drhr (Mar 14, 2011)

newbieinIL said:


> As of today I own two Omegas. One Seiko. As well as an Invicta and a Stuhrling.
> 
> *If I see a watch I like, I buy it. And I'm not ashamed. *I will put the Stuhrling in my signature right next to the Omega.
> 
> ...


Outstanding, very refreshing actually! People can opine all they want (not saying that's bad, btw), but until they let you spend their money, kinda moot I'd say :-!. . . . .


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## Rallyfan13 (Feb 23, 2013)

The opposite should also be true -- I don't understand why people get defensive about their choices when others don't approve.

Let's say I find someone else's watch hideous. This happens; the leading reason for this would be that the watch is hideous... Anyway, why would the person care what I think? 

Shouldn't they in fact applaud my stance instead? I'll never compete for that watch so I won't raise the price, and I'll never be in line in front of them at the dealer. One day, when parts are scarce, I won't be looking for them and making them more expensive. They'll never have to wait for repairs because the watchmaker is fixing mine. 

In fact, people with hideous watches ought to thank, if not even pay, me!


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

Easy: Mk2-copied designs from other manufactures and then calls them "their design" while only adding a few minor updates. Horrible wait time on watches, one of them is around the 3.5 year mark and still not delivered to the customers. Total lack of communication and please don't dare to ask for parts for you watch. Just all around a bad deal imo. So you won't catch me ever dealing directly with them.


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## Rallyfan13 (Feb 23, 2013)

toxicavenger said:


> Easy: MkII


I think those are handsome but there seems to be a wait so to me it's become a moot point.


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## Brian Hatton (Jul 7, 2013)

Tag


Sent from teh interweb thingy


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## kkchome (Aug 12, 2008)

For me, it is a brand which I used to love and am still fond of their older watches; IWC. The primary reason I have "black listed" them is the horrible lack of customer service and response after asking for some information about a watch I had acquired. I never got a response from them despite several emails and a couple phone calls. Because of this, I will never buy another new IWC. The second reason is that I really have taken a strong dislike to their more recent designs. Fortunately, I have had much better customer service from other members of the Richmont group (Vacheron Contantin & Jaeger LeCoultre), so I don't feel the need to blacklist the entire group.

Perhaps we also need a thread about which brands we have "white listed". For me, it must be Glashutte Original. I contacted them after I purchased my GO second hand asking for some information about the watch and movement. They were great. The supplied all the information I was looking for, got me scans of the manuals, sent me the newest catalog and invited me to visit the factory next time I go to Germany. They also took down the serial number of my watch to enter me in their owner's registry. I found this level of person attention truly remarkable given the fact that I purchased the watch second hand.


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

Panerai- for putting pedestrian movements in high priced watches.


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## Casertano69 (Sep 22, 2012)

yourdudeness080 said:


> NIXON
> MICHAEL KORS
> STHURLING
> AEROMATIC
> ...


I got a Retrowerk(sold),this reference







I do not think it is a fake watch,it was solid and massive with a good Myota movement


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## Tom_DS (Nov 12, 2012)

Anything Russian... Very poor quality...


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## ffeelliixx (May 22, 2007)

Omega. Too boring. 

sent from my Note 3


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## Shishou (Apr 1, 2014)

Invicta is the butt of all jokes, but I can't help but give them some love.

-Terrible business practices
-Deceiving the uneducated watch buyers
-Hit or Miss QC
-Terrible customer support
-90% off MRSP on all watches which is just annoying to know so many people are stupid enough to fall for it
-Gaudy Invicta pride. Invicta branding is all over the ....ing watches! The brand name is not something you want advertised to people in the know, stop whoring it on your watches!

Oh wait... I said I was going to give them some love.

Because even with all their shiesty practices, they make some really cool looking watches at some damn good prices. Lots look nice and are junk, while some have some crazy good quality control and build. It is a gamble, but some Invicta are huge bang for your buck watches or the most affordable way to obtain a very nice Swiss Movement.

I have one Invicta that I love and it has the most accurate automatic movement of any of my watches. Love it! My girlfriend got it for me and was of course not in the know about the Invicta stink... But it is a Red Carbon Fiber Dial Chronograph with a 7750 movement! Damn well built too.... Just wish that huge INVICTA engraved on the side was not there or could be filled in....

Amazon.com: Invicta Men's 1070 Reserve Automatic Chronograph Red Dial Stainless Steel Watch: Invicta: Watches Will always be one of my favorites, just can't show it off around watch snobs


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## Rallyfan13 (Feb 23, 2013)

Show it off! My 8926 was a daily during the late 90s; Invicta made great watches!

Plus, Invicta are head and shoulders above the competition in diversity. Any style, they've got a half dozen variants.

Where others fail, Invicta succeeds. Rolex never made a Seamaster; Invicta did! Ω never made a Submariner, Invicta did! In fact Invicta made them both simultaneously!

Any 8926 has a better case shape than the latest copy from Rolex (the Subs beyond the 16610 have lost their way in this respect). 

So while the WIS of the world have been gnashing their teeth, turning up their noses, and braying since roughly 1997, Invictas have been selling, correcting or avoiding the mistakes made by lesser competitors (116610, oh please...).


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## frogger17 (Mar 8, 2013)

Shishou said:


> .... Just wish that huge INVICTA engraved on the side was not there or could be filled in...


Don't what the finish is, but some people go the opposite direction and file it off. Just saying.


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## Rallyfan13 (Feb 23, 2013)

Those Invicta diver cases are great for carrying pistols BTW. Cut the central padding to the outline and use the peripheral watch-shaped openings for odds and ends (a brush, small file etc). A red box from Omega is as useless as a green box from Rolex for that -- and a yellow cylinder from Citizen isn't worth considering. Invicta wins the day...


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## mutemode (Feb 24, 2010)

Tom_DS said:


> Anything Russian... Very poor quality...


I'm guessing you've never owned a Denissov.


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## Voodoo13 (Jun 6, 2013)

Any watch that doesn't have a sapphire crystal! Deal breaker for me. And oh yeah has anyone mentioned Invicta!? Lmmfao 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## hyuaki (Apr 19, 2014)

Any watch that costs over $500.
I wouldn't really call this a blacklisting but I am unsure of what to call it. There are several I would like to own, but I would never wear them in case something happened to them.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## Crunchy (Feb 4, 2013)

ffeelliixx said:


> Omega. Too boring.
> 
> sent from my Note 3


Lol if you are looking for a WUS bar brawl, it's better to say that Grand Seiko is boring instead.

The onega guys have been pacifists after decades of war with Rolex.


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## WatchObsessed (May 18, 2014)

Invicta: For same reasons other posters have already covered many times over. I've happily suggested to friends who wanted to buy an automatic and not spend a ton of money to try Invicta (although I try to push them toward Seiko instead). For me, everything about the brand is ugly, their designs and even their oversize logo on their dials is just... awful, IMHO.

Movado: Kind of a one trick pony isn't it - the Museum design? 

Breitling: Respectable brand of course but the dials are just too complicated for me. 

Omega: Sort of love/hate with Omega. I don't like the modern brand with its selling of cufflinks, use of celebrity ambassadors and its buying of the right to be used in the Bond films. On the other hand, I do like their vintage watches like the 60's, 70's Seamasters and of course the Speedmasters. I also like the fact the company isn't shy about trying new technologies in their watches like high end quartz, LED and LCD in the 70's - some of which are on my dream wish list.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2010)

Crunchy said:


> Lol if you are looking for a WUS bar brawl, it's better to say that Grand Seiko is boring instead.
> 
> The Omega guys have been pacifists after decades of war with Rolex.


"Rolex is over-priced, pretentious bits of metal!"

I came to fight!!! :-d


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