# Sticky  The "Is this Panerai real?" thread



## handwound

OK, everyone. This is the thread to post all your requests for validation of a watch in. Let's not clutter up the forum with dozens of individual threads.


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## stilo

It's about time! Thanks Trent!


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## timefleas

*IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

Hi, NEWBIE here. Just ran across a great deal on the bay! Check it out--the following for a starting bid of only $500! It's got a '000' production number--that's gotta make it valuable too, right!? Think I'm gonna go for it! What do you think?!





































Actually just trying to draw attention to this sticky--seems the newbies still aren't using this thread--maybe this will attract their attention.

A little early for April Fool's but just had to share this with you guys--and yes, someone really is trying to sell this on the bay, already filed a report.​


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## stilo

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

My eyes hurt after looking at that and I think I just swallowed my own puke!


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## Pandu79

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

Wow! That is one bad fake.. :think: The person that put it together was either drunk or in a poorly lit room that he could see what he was working on!
cheers
PJ


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## Mikeycanuk

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

Girard- Perregaux meets Panerai somewhere in a basement on the Chinese mainland and volia!


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## dosei

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150987926975?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Do you guys think the watch in this auction has any issues?

TIA.


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## Synequano

dosei said:


> Authentic Panerai Pam 111 M Luminor Marina w Boxset Papers Mint | eBay
> Do you guys think the watch in this auction has any issues?
> 
> TIA.


The watch photo looks genuine to me,all the paperworks and everything also seems complete,but the seller has no feedback..which is kinda scare me off..


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## Mike Cooley

lol fake


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## dosei

Mike Cooley said:


> lol fake


Mike, thanks for your input. Can you please explain why you think this is fake?


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## Mikeycanuk

brand new seller? whoa! IMO these pictures might be authentic but who knows what you'll get in the mail.


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## dosei

That's true. Thanks.


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## timefleas

Mike Cooley said:


> lol fake


I think for these kinds of inquiries to be of any value it would be more helpful to be a bit more concrete--the watch, box and paperwork actually look legitimate in the small pictures--so, if it looks fake, a little bit of explanation would be in order here. If, on the other hand, your main concern is the very real problem that the seller has no feedback, then it would be more useful to simply point this out.

While the watch kit looks good to me, I have seen people steal whole picture sets and try to sell them as their own, as a result, even if the pictures look good (or not) is not enough--in this case, the crucial fact is that the seller has NO PRIOR TRANSACTIONS, thus NO POSITIVE FEEDBACK, thus (and this really should be obvious) NO SALE!! This should not even be a question--don't ever buy from an unknown or untrusted seller--even if the deal appears to be a "steal."


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## SlightRight

Thinking to cop my very first fine watch! Does this one look legit to you guys?
Many thanks in advance!!
Panerai Pam 111 H Series 44mm Luminor Marina Steel Mens Watch Box Papers | eBay


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## houndoggie

SlightRight said:


> Thinking to cop my very first fine watch! Does this one look legit to you guys?
> Many thanks in advance!!
> Panerai Pam 111 H Series 44mm Luminor Marina Steel Mens Watch Box Papers | eBay


Hard to tell but may be ok. I'd never buy a Pam 111 on eBay though.


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## Matty01

What do u think guys?


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## houndoggie

Matty01 said:


> What do u think guys?


Need movement shot.


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## Matty01

houndoggie said:


> Need movement shot.


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## noobfess

Two Panerai Watches Real or Fake =( ? Hey guys,

Dont be so harsh please. Be nice, im new. So i have these two watches from panerai. I am going to buy one from a AD soon. These two are fake are probably. give me some info too for future.

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting (watch 1, front)

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting (watch 1, back)

and

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting (watch 2, front)

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting (watch 2, back)​


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## Synequano

^ both are fake


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## Simons194

Neither are from Panerai.


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## noobfess

chinese replica?


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## Thunderbirds

Im new to this forum and seeking advice to find if its real or fake before purchasing this watch
looked into it many time and it ok for me however
advice from expert highly appreciated


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## Travelller

Thunderbirds said:


> ...if its real or fake before purchasing this watch...


Looks to be a genuine 217 and the 217 is a SE so it will come in a special box with a "scroll" (certificate) etc. Have the seller send you a photo of the box, user guide and in particular, that certificate.


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## carman63

Travelller said:


> Looks to be a genuine 217 and the 217 is a SE so it will come in a special box with a "scroll" (certificate) etc. Have the seller send you a photo of the box, user guide and in particular, that certificate.


Also have them write your (or their) name and the current date on a sticky note and have that included in the images. I've seen a lot of image theft lately, to sell a watch that the seller didn't have.

Did you post in p.com? These images look familiar. The thing I remember is, look at how 'SWISS' is printed on the outside edge of the dial. Google "Panerai 217" and look at the movement images. Every one I've seen, the 'SWISS' is flipped (upside-down) compared to this one. Look here for 2 examples of what I mean: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y145/unknown100/Panerai217f.jpg

http://robertmaron.com/images/D/PAM217-01.jpg


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## Pattyb69

Hey guys,

Looking to pick up my first PAM but checking in here first to see if you guys think it is genuine. All the stickers and serial numbers seem to match. Only thing that bothers me is the "receipt" is a appraisal form and the ipad pic just looks a little funny. Thanks in advance!

*Link to the sale ad:*
Paneristi Collectors' Market: FS: PAM 111M (SoCal)


*Here are some additional pictures he sent me per my request.* *I had him put his name or my name next to the watch to verify that it is in his possession:

*


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## Synequano

The 111 looks legit to me,but I don't know the feedback of this seller on paneristi or other site


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## Travelller

Pattyb69 said:


> ...Only thing that bothers me is the "receipt" is a appraisal form and the ipad pic just looks a little funny...


He probably bought it from someone and the original receipt was unavailable so they had it appraised (verified) at some local jeweler. This jeweler certainly didn't check with OP - otherwise the appraisal form would have the serial numbers on it etc. The iPAD app is probably a sketch app - I think that's fine. The photos on Pcom look authentic too. Looks good to me too (Synequano having added his opinion above).


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## Pattyb69

Thanks for all the help guys! I appreciate it. Now I have to REALLY think about it.


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## mentos

Thunderbirds said:


> Im new to this forum and seeking advice to find if its real or fake before purchasing this watch
> looked into it many time and it ok for me however
> advice from expert highly appreciated


The spacing looks suspicious to me. I suppose the letters are little stickers which are typically used on lower end reps to simulate engraving.


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## Neskio

Please delete.


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## houndoggie

KCCO


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## MBZ

View attachment 981320
View attachment 981321


thinking about buying this panerai.. what are your thoughts real/fake?


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## Synequano

For the 111F above,ask the seller for more pics,the movement and CG looks correct in comparison with my Pam 111E,however the accessories are not correct,early 111 should have rounded buckle (not deployant clasps) and older style rubber strap with floating strap keeper vs somewhat "fixed" strap keeper we see in the current (H onward) generation
Do keep in mind that older 111 have painted dial instead of sandwich


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## sass13

New guy here... sorry about my post not being in the proper location before.

So, hoping to get a little help...Looking at this watch this weekend any thoughts would be great.

Thanks again,
Michael
View attachment 983973
View attachment 983976
View attachment 983977
View attachment 983978
View attachment 983979


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## houndoggie

sass13 said:


> New guy here... sorry about my post not being in the proper location before.
> 
> So, hoping to get a little help...Looking at this watch this weekend any thoughts would be great.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Michael
> View attachment 983973
> View attachment 983976
> View attachment 983977
> View attachment 983978
> View attachment 983979


Looks legit.


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## sass13

Thanks!


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## noobfess

UNWORN Panerai 44 mm Steel Luminor Base Logo Pam 000 Pam 00000 | eBay is this good deal? does it look real and legit?


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## Synequano

The Pam 000 looks okay,however,I'm just curious,I thought the crown and lever are from older Pams (my A,E,G,H Pams have the same crown,whereas my O Pam have different crown and lever mechanism)


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## noobfess

wait so is the listing, fake?


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## Synequano

Not sure,let the experts answer the question,personally if I want to buy 000,I will buy the LNIB from reputable dealer for 3500-4000 ish instead of brand new..


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## Simons194

Opinions please guys genuine 183 movement ? The seller has the supporting docs etc he says but your experts views would be very welcome ....


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## SoCalRandy

What do you guys think about this one?...

Paneristi Collectors' Market: FS: PANERAI 111 SERIAL O BARELY USED

He said he bought it from an AD in Buenos Aires, Argentina

Thanks in advance!


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## Watch_Addicted

hi everyone. this definitely sounds too good to be true, but the pictures do seem legit to me. what do you think?

Panerai 351 Titanium 1950 Automatic


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## Galactic Sushiman

Watch_Addicted said:


> hi everyone. this definitely sounds too good to be true, but the pictures do seem legit to me. what do you think?
> 
> Panerai 351 Titanium 1950 Automatic


If it comes from Capetown it's surely authentic... But no movement pic, so hard to say...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## Synequano

The 351 on the pic looks legit but the price and no movement pic is a deal breaker,I've seen what looks like 351 (1950 case,tobacco dial,gold hands) but the movement is not P9000..


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## rg21044

I know many of of the regulars here question the motives of people on this thread....however, I need some help. Before I spend $3500 on this watch can someone tell me if it is authentic. Thanks.


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## Justcheckin

This seller just sent me some pictures of this pam 111 in my local area. He wants 2.8k for it. Is it real?



























.














Please lmk asap thanks


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## Travelller

Justcheckin said:


> This seller just sent me some pictures of this pam 111 in my local area. He wants 2.8k for it. Is it real? Please lmk asap thanks


Welcome to the forums, "Justcheckin". As for your 111, I have no idea - looks real, but who really knows, huh. Box? Papers? Nice background in the photos...


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## Justcheckin

Travelller said:


> Welcome to the forums, "Justcheckin". As for your 111, I have no idea - looks real, but who really knows, huh. Box? Papers? Nice background in the photos...


He just sent me this.








Thanks for the welcome!


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## Nikoniain

Sorry to ask this but is this genuine, I know the strap is not but can anyone help with the watch.

This is my first post and I hope to be a new Panerai convert, I'm hoping to purchase this watch tomorrow if genuine.

Your help is much appreciated in advance, hello to all who are looking. :-!


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## Nikoniain

Think I have worked that it is fake, thanks for looking.


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## handwound

Justcheckin, definitely fake.

Nikonian, yes definitely also a fake.


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## handwound

rg21044, looks legit, but those pictures are awfully small.


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## eddiemonster

I would need a profile shot of the crown guard and a straight on close-up of the movt. to tell you. But if you have to ask, why bother w/ the risk? If you are a newbie or uncertain, these are things you can do to reduce your risk:

1. require matching paperwork from the seller, and that would help to prove it's authenticity w/o having to inspect pictures 
2. research the seller- does he contribute to any watch forum, have positive feed back, willing to disclose contact info., willing to provide proof or ownership (picture of watch next to a note w/ username, name and date), do a google search, does his info. match who he claims to be?
3. pay via Paypal (w/ credit card) as back-up buyer protection.


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## Nikoniain

handwound said:


> Justcheckin, definitely fake.
> 
> Nikonian, yes definitely also a fake.


Many thanks for the reply handwound. nikoniain :-!


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## shnjb

lolllllllllll



Justcheckin said:


> This seller just sent me some pictures of this pam 111 in my local area. He wants 2.8k for it. Is it real?
> View attachment 1050230
> 
> View attachment 1050240
> 
> View attachment 1050242
> 
> View attachment 1050245
> .
> View attachment 1050247
> 
> View attachment 1050248
> 
> Please lmk asap thanks


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## shnjb

lol this one is horrible as well



Nikoniain said:


> Sorry to ask this but is this genuine, I know the strap is not but can anyone help with the watch.
> 
> This is my first post and I hope to be a new Panerai convert, I'm hoping to purchase this watch tomorrow if genuine.
> 
> Your help is much appreciated in advance, hello to all who are looking. :-!
> 
> View attachment 1052073
> View attachment 1052074
> View attachment 1052075
> View attachment 1052076


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## Alaister

Hey guys,

Could you tell me if this is real or fake
If you think it's fake could you tell me why please.

Thanks


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## Travelller

Looks real to me. Should come with an impressive price tag...


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## Synequano

Man,that is a nice 172!!! Last time I checked it cost around us$ 19-20K


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## Topthana

Is this PAM 111 is gen? It is about to be my first PAM.


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## shnjb

That's a poor photo but yea. It has all the characteristics of a gen.
(Incabloc, swan neck etc)


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## Topthana

Thank you very much for your kind response. These are the only pics I received from the seller


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## handwound

I love it when people cover up the series numbering in their photos, but leave the BB/PB number completely visible. The BB/PB number is the actual serial number identifier for the watch - you would think more people would know that.


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## BenL

It looks pretty good to me.


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## Topthana

BenL, Thank you very much.


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## Genebe

Looks good. Hope it comes with triple boxes and papers


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## Rncv

Hi Guys,

New to the forum, wanting to find out if this is real or not.

If it's fake (hopefully not) why is it?


















cheers!


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## Travelller

Rncv said:


> ...if this is real or not. If it's fake (hopefully not) why is it?


Looks like some *really poor attempt* to copy the 063. You can't become a better "buyer" if we explain what's wrong with this one single fake. You need to spend time on the forums in order to get a better idea of Panerai watches. Until then, feel free to post your next attempt at finding a real PAM here ;-)


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## handwound

Sorry, RNCV, that's a horrible fake. Not even Canal St quality there...


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## shnjb

Rncv said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> New to the forum, wanting to find out if this is real or not.
> 
> If it's fake (hopefully not) why is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers!


Fly back to China and try again.


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## BenL

Rncv said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> New to the forum, wanting to find out if this is real or not.
> 
> If it's fake (hopefully not) why is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers!


The watch in these pictures does not look like it is made by Panerai.


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## Jaim

Hi, I'm new to this site.. just wondering if this Panerai watch is real.. it is a ladies watch with a rubber band.. stainless steel and is automatic. It says on the face "Panerai Automatic Luminor Marina". Thoughts?? My partner wants to buy it but i wanted to check it out first


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## shnjb

Jaim said:


> Hi, I'm new to this site.. just wondering if this Panerai watch is real.. it is a ladies watch with a rubber band.. stainless steel and is automatic. It says on the face "Panerai Automatic Luminor Marina". Thoughts?? My partner wants to buy it but i wanted to check it out first
> View attachment 1105489
> View attachment 1105490
> View attachment 1105491


What part of that watch makes you think it is a Panerai watch?


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## Genebe

:roll: really?


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## korneevy

Jaim said:


> View attachment 1105491


Mna, gotta love that "decorated" rotor! I think the sticker top has come off and is probably loose in the case so I doubt this p.o.s even runs...however: I'd buy one for 10$ as a shooting target.


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## subtle147

Hi Guys - I see this Panerai for sale at a local shop here in NYC. Pre-owned for $4595. I am new to Panerai but thought all models started with a PAM 0000xxx but I don't see anything like that on this paperwork.


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## shnjb

Gotta see the swan neck more clearly


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## Travelller

subtle147 said:


> ...I see this Panerai for sale at a local shop here in NYC...





subtle147 said:


> Judging from the *C401/500* it looks like a Marina from 2000 timeframe...


It's a replica.


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## Travelller

Travelller said:


> It's a replica.





subtle147 said:


> ...looks like it is a *G *401/500.


In that case, it's almost certainly the real deal. Only OP can verify it's absolute authenticity, but I would say it's real. Everything [now...] matches a *177 G* - _Panerai-stamped platine, black dial, millesimation, and case number_.


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## subtle147

Hi Guys
Here are better views of the back (band is not original) - things still look good? Another question: Is there an official process to validate authenticity such as going to an appraiser?


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## shnjb

subtle147 said:


> Hi Guys
> Here are better views of the back (band is not original) - things still look good? Another question: Is there an official process to validate authenticity such as going to an appraiser?
> 
> View attachment 1112458
> View attachment 1112459


Looks pretty good although picture is pretty blurry.


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## Travelller

subtle147 said:


> ...Is there an official process to validate authenticity such as going to an appraiser?





Travelller said:


> Only OP can verify it's absolute authenticity...


Ask the jeweler to verify it with OP. Verification is done by submitting all numbers (incl. movement if available). OP will cross-reference the case and unit numbers to the serial number (and movement#) or something like that. Usually an AD will do this but hopefully your jeweler can do it as well... doesn't hurt to ask... !

Good luck! :-!


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## Synequano

The 6572 on the caseback in quite consistent with 177 from that period,however for extra peace of mind,as written by other posters,check the millestimation with Panerai


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## benchman

I have a genuine panerai offincine gmt for sale. In good condition. With a brown leather strap.

Offers welcome and pictures and codes can be Send on request


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## Genebe

benchman said:


> I have a genuine panerai offincine gmt for sale. In good condition. With a brown leather strap.
> 
> Offers welcome and pictures and codes can be Send on request


Good luck with that sale!


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## xyzzy12

Real or Fake (and is it a DLC'd 005? the case back doesnt seem to be a 195)... Thoughts?


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## shnjb

xyzzy12 said:


> Real or Fake (and is it a DLC'd 005? the case back doesnt seem to be a 195)... Thoughts?


Seems fake to me


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## Travelller

xyzzy12 said:


> Real or Fake (and is it a DLC'd 005? the case back doesnt seem to be a 195)... Thoughts?


Definitely not a 195, maybe a third-party PVDed 005. Ask the seller for the year (letter) and case number (OP nnnn) - neither one should be hidden from the seller (only the SN - "BB nnn..n" and maybe the sequence # "016" should be hidden).


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## korneevy

I go with fake, canon pinion has a "nipple" that should be flat top. Caseback engravings appear shallow and under defined. However, these could simply be angles and lighting issues so best to check against papers and movement stickers, if the seller is willing to remove the back.


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## shnjb

korneevy said:


> I go with fake, canon pinion has a "nipple" that should be flat top. Caseback engravings appear shallow and under defined. However, these could simply be angles and lighting issues so best to check against papers and movement stickers, if the seller is willing to remove the back.


Canon pin is a dead giveaway. Fake


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## korneevy

shnjb said:


> Canon pin is a dead giveaway. Fake


Yeah, the other thing is very poor fit of the crown guard against the case, just look at the gaps on both side of the curvature. In fact it looks like it is installed inside out if you know what i mean, the back side is facing the front of the watch...Also, having magnified the hands, they are look very rough and uneven along the edges...so fake it is.


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## shnjb

korneevy said:


> Yeah, the other thing is very poor fit of the crown guard against the case, just look at the gaps on both side of the curvature. Also, having magnified the hands, they are look very rough and uneven along the edges...so fake it is.


The crown guard edges are also round.
Typical canal st piece of crap


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## Genebe

shnjb said:


> The crown guard edges are also round.
> Typical canal st piece of crap


... with a correct "Y" shape incabloc?? Things must really be improving down on Canal St.! I suspect what you think is rough edges and poor fit is more than likely the lighting. I'm still leaning towards genuine with this one.


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## shnjb

Genebe said:


> ... with a correct "Y" shape incabloc?? Things must really be improving down on Canal St.! I suspect what you think is rough edges and poor fit is more than likely the lighting. I'm still leaning towards genuine with this one.


Sorry maybe we are talking about two different watches?
I was merely commenting on the closed caseback watch.


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## Genebe

shnjb said:


> Sorry maybe we are talking about two different watches?
> I was merely commenting on the closed caseback watch.


lol! I was commenting about the display back. (last set of photos) We're going to confuse everyone.


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## shnjb

Genebe said:


> lol! I was commenting about the display back. (last set of photos) We're going to confuse everyone.


Last set of photos was from a "DLCed 005."


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## AaaVee

Hi,

Friend is considering purchase of this Panerai 00005.
Do you see anything suspicious about it?









































Thanks in advance!


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## shnjb

Doesn't look particularly suspicious but 005 with closed caseback is almost impossible to tell apart from a counterfeit item.
I think you will need some strong evidence of authenticity to avoid getting scammed.



AaaVee said:


> Hi,
> 
> Friend is considering purchase of this Panerai 00005.
> Do you see anything suspicious about it?
> 
> View attachment 1137260
> 
> 
> View attachment 1137261
> 
> 
> View attachment 1137262
> 
> 
> View attachment 1137263
> 
> 
> View attachment 1137264
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!


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## AaaVee

shnjb said:


> Doesn't look particularly suspicious but 005 with closed caseback is almost impossible to tell apart from a counterfeit item.
> I think you will need some strong evidence of authenticity to avoid getting scammed.


There is a possibility to take watch to 3rd party watchmaker for inspection to open up caseback. Is there any movement decorations that would confirm authenticity? I remember reading somewhere that many basic PAMs had most basic/generic ETA movement inside.


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## Synequano

May I know what is the year stamp for the 005 above? The rubber strap looks like the one from G series or older,the strap keeper is free floating and the keeper is rounded,not squared

As for movt decoration,I read that zero and 5 should have simple decoration like on 111/112,still well decorated compared to the plain movt fiasco happened on Pam 318


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## sixgunshorty

Simons194 said:


> Neither are from Panerai.


Agree....No trademark or REG on crown protector lever


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## AaaVee

Got more photos for the same watch. Year stamp on warranty card November-2006. 
Still looking good?


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## Genebe

Looks very good! Two boxes (as per Euro sale), along with books, case rubber, movement stickers (numbers match), COSC cert, etc.
This is the real deal.


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## Pohm1

> Agree....No trademark or REG on crown protector lever


Not all Panerai have this on the crown protector. My 048 hasn't, and I don't think the 005 has either.

P1


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## Synequano

The REG T.M engraving is only on luminor 1950's CG,the CG on standard luminor cases are plain


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## Robert Chobot

Hello Im new here and I need your help a little. Ive been surfin on internet but only here may someone help me. My friend just gave me these watches and I see this brand for first time. After the first post I think those will be fake but I hope at least good made fake. Also I need some watches since i dont have any. Tahnks for help. Appreciate


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## korneevy

Robert Chobot said:


> Hello Im new here and I need your help a little. Ive been surfin on internet but only here may someone help me. My friend just gave me these watches and I see this brand for first time. After the first post I think those will be fake but I hope at least good made fake. Also I need some watches since i dont have any. Tahnks for help. Appreciate
> 
> View attachment 1145970
> View attachment 1145974


Fake. Very very bad fake. Discharge.


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## Robert Chobot

Good! Thanks for help.


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## shnjb

Can't believe someone tried to sell that as a real Panerai.
It should be relabeled as Panetai for the gullible.


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## Styles84

Hi,

Any thoughts on this one being real or not?
Panerai Luminor Marina Automatic | eBay

Thanks in advance


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## owned4u

shnjb said:


> Can't believe someone tried to sell that as a real Panerai.
> It should be relabeled as Panetai for the gullible.


That may have been the worst, "fakest" panerai I've ever seen. If they took "Panerai" off it and sold it as a homage I feel like they could have sold it for more


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## td2y

Hello to All Pam's experts 
Is this Pams looks legit. I know might not the best models since it is ferrari but a friend of mine ask me if it's genuine because the price seems very good.
Panerai Ferrari Granturismo 45mm Chronograph FER00004 Brand New MSRP $9500 | eBay


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## molecule

Guys, I just picked up my first panerai from a really nice guy through a local forum. Its a pam183J and the watch looks pretty legit to me overall, but I can't be sure its real. Can any experts help me out here? Upon inspection under a loupe, I saw the eta stamp with "b99501" inscribed below the balance wheel. Does that mean the movement is authentic? Cheers. 

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2


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## shinn_aj

Hello guys, a newbie need some help here to buy used Panerai.

Would you mind to verify are these two both legit or just one of them?
















Thanks very much, I would really appreciate your help since I'm no expert in this field like you guys.


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## Greek6486

molecule said:


> Guys, I just picked up my first panerai from a really nice guy through a local forum. Its a pam183J and the watch looks pretty legit to me overall, but I can't be sure its real. Can any experts help me out here? Upon inspection under a loupe, I saw the eta stamp with "b99501" inscribed below the balance wheel. Does that mean the movement is authentic? Cheers.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2


Yes definitely real assuming that model is supposed to be a wind up (I'm not very familiar with panarai models)

sent from my RAZR Maxx w/Rage Rom


----------



## shinn_aj

Any thoughts guys regarding the used PAM 297 Luminor GMT & used PAM 299 Marina Auto I posted? Are they genuine? I would really appreciate any opinions you guys gave. If you need additional photos for recognition I could provide more. Thanks very much.


----------



## molecule

Hey thanks! Yup its a manual winding model. Cheers!



Greek6486 said:


> Yes definitely real assuming that model is supposed to be a wind up (I'm not very familiar with panarai models)
> 
> sent from my RAZR Maxx w/Rage Rom


Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## shinn_aj

Is there anyone able to help me please? I have no idea & need some opinions from you guys who's expert in PAM.



shinn_aj said:


> Any thoughts guys regarding the used PAM 297 Luminor GMT & used PAM 299 Marina Auto I posted? Are they genuine? I would really appreciate any opinions you guys gave. If you need additional photos for recognition I could provide more. Thanks very much.


----------



## korneevy

shinn_aj said:


> Is there anyone able to help me please? I have no idea & need some opinions from you guys who's expert in PAM.


Take them to a dealer or proper watchmaker, have them open the case and examine the movement, then compare movement number with the papers and make sure they are all matching. That's your only option if you have no clue about PAMs since from these photos it is impossible to say anything else. These are ETA based Panerai and there are very good fakes out there of both models so do not buy if you have no papers or you may end up with an expensive turd. Good luck


----------



## shinn_aj

korneevy said:


> Take them to a dealer or proper watchmaker, have them open the case and examine the movement, then compare movement number with the papers and make sure they are all matching. That's your only option if you have no clue about PAMs since from these photos it is impossible to say anything else. These are ETA based Panerai and there are very good fakes out there of both models so do not buy if you have no papers or you may end up with an expensive turd. Good luck


Thanks for your reply Korneevy.

If I had to buy them first then authenticate & eventually got scammed, I don't think it's possible to get my money back since they're pre-owned from private seller. How would you advise? Will Paypal protect me from such thing?

Well their papers are complete & from what I can see the numbers on papers matched the case-back.

Another 3rd option from different seller for pre-owned Panerai is this following PAM 220 (2005), the seller posted the mechanical movement & some other photos, would you mind to give some opinions of this one?






















Do you think this one is legit / genuine judging from its exterior & mechanical movement?

Thanks very much, I would really appreciate your help.

--------------------
More opinions from you guys IWC experts are welcomed


----------



## korneevy

shinn_aj said:


> Thanks for your reply Korneevy.
> 
> If I had to buy them first then authenticate & eventually got scammed, I don't think it's possible to get my money back since they're pre-owned from private seller. How would you advise? Will Paypal protect me from such thing?
> 
> Well their papers are complete & from what I can see the numbers on papers matched the case-back.
> 
> Another 3rd option from different seller for pre-owned Panerai is this following PAM 220 (2005), the seller posted the mechanical movement & some other photos, would you mind to give some opinions of this one?
> 
> View attachment 1168769
> 
> 
> Do you think this one is legit / genuine judging from its exterior & mechanical movement?
> 
> Thanks very much, I would really appreciate your help.


Mate, I would't have a clue as to what PayPal would cover and not - you need to talk to PayPal and your bank if paying by credit card. I would also never ever buy a used watch from a private seller over the Internet...just too much risk for the sake of saving 300$ if you ask me. Go with a big second hand dealer who will offer you insured shipping, full money back and warranty and speep soundly at night, knowing you have a genuine product...will also help greatly with re-sale when time comes to part with it. My take is that if you are trying to save a few hundred $ on a $5K+ watch, you probably should not be buying it in the first place, but that's just me.

Regarding that movement - looks legit to me, but again ask to check papers and compare the movement # against the stickers on the box/certificate, this should tell you enough. If they match and caseback numbers match as well, it is 99% genuine.

Ciao!


----------



## shinn_aj

korneevy said:


> Mate, I would't have a clue as to what PayPal would cover and not - you need to talk to PayPal and your bank if paying by credit card. I would also never ever buy a used watch from a private seller over the Internet...just too much risk for the sake of saving 300$ if you ask me. Go with a big second hand dealer who will offer you insured shipping, full money back and warranty and speep soundly at night, knowing you have a genuine product...will also help greatly with re-sale when time comes to part with it. My take is that if you are trying to save a few hundred $ on a $5K+ watch, you probably should not be buying it in the first place, but that's just me.
> 
> Regarding that movement - looks legit to me, but again ask to check papers and compare the movement # against the stickers on the box/certificate, this should tell you enough. If they match and caseback numbers match as well, it is 99% genuine.
> 
> Ciao!


Thanks Korneevy,

Yeah you're right, thanks very much for the enlightening.

If you don't mind, would you please tell me which "big second hand dealer" you think is recommended? If you're not comfortable to disclose it here, would you please PM me? I would really appreciate your help mate!

Cheers,


----------



## thereefster

pls tell me if my panerai is real thanks...bought it for 1.5k off the internet..



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## mew88

thereefster said:


> pls tell me if my panerai is real thanks...bought it for 1.5k off the internet..
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Looks like a fake to me, theres a gap between the crown guard and the case on the second picture and the PAM416 shouldnt be going for that price.


----------



## thereefster

mew88 said:


> Looks like a fake to me, theres a gap between the crown guard and the case on the second picture and the PAM416 shouldnt be going for that price.


what do you mean by the gap?i see the crown guard is screwed tight to the case :-(


----------



## mew88

thereefster said:


> what do you mean by the gap?i see the crown guard is screwed tight to the case :-(


It could be a reflection but I see a gap between the the upper portion of the guard and the case on your second photo.
It's hard to judge based on the photos alone but the price does raise some alarm bells, I would suggest taking it to a dealer to open it up and take a look.


----------



## thereefster

mew88 said:


> It could be a reflection but I see a gap between the the upper portion of the guard and the case on your second photo.
> It's hard to judge based on the photos alone but the price does raise some alarm bells, I would suggest taking it to a dealer to open it up and take a look.


here's couple more pics...really hope it's real though..have the papers everything but you know those can be faked these days...



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## mew88

thereefster said:


> here's couple more pics...really hope it's real though..have the papers everything but you know those can be faked these days...


yea those can be faked as well. I suppose the crown guard gap seems to be a reflection, but looking at your pictures again I can't help noticing the finishing of the hands and the lume on the dial.... Im not an expert or anything but I don't like what I see here.


----------



## korneevy

thereefster said:


> pls tell me if my panerai is real thanks...bought it for 1.5k off the internet..
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


I hate to disssapoint but this look like a very good fake..but fake still. J I'd challenge you to show photos of the caseback numbers along with the papers inc. movement sticker and cosc certificate with the matching numbers, don't think it is going to happen. If you were indeed taken for over a grand on this thing, here are so clues - look closely at the pig details which are very poorly defined and miss three dimensional nature of the real thing, and cannon pinion that is suppose to be flat with the hands and polished...Also the strap is very fake, stitching is incorrect and sloppy. However, $1.5K for a watch that routinely goes upwards of 6K in good used condition is lunacy and that's pretty much the main clue in the whole thing. Noone is that stupid in then internet age, especially if they are selling a genuine article bought a year or two ago with all papers and original receipts...If you really want a 99% verification, get the caseback off and post high def photos of the movement...this is where it usually becomes painfully clear


----------



## Travelller

korneevy said:


> ...$1.5K for a watch that routinely goes upwards of 6K in good used condition is lunacy and that's pretty much the main clue in the whole thing...


That's what stopped me from "investigating" your watch any further. where's the caseback photo? What's the model number btw? In any case, no one would sell any PAM for $1.5K "on the Internet"; if you had told us an acquaintance was in a hurry to flip it then maybe but as it stands... sorry.


----------



## shnjb

Please don't be a troll.
U know u bought a fake when u paid 1.5k.
There is no way any Pam would be sold for that unless it was heavily damaged.


----------



## ninetyone

Guys, im thinking of purchasing a PAM111 from this online seller, Kronopassion that I will deal with locally. Just wondering if you guys have any experience with him?

Here's the watch listing, and the link to pictures of all the accessories and paper work that comes with it. Does it look right? 
Panerai Luminor Marina PAM 111 O Series
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/deh7zh2ysrv359g/OpVRqBif4-

Thanks in advance guys. Help is greatly appreciated. As it is tax free weekend in MA and Im trying to decide whether to purchase from my local AD or this seller by this afternoon.


----------



## shnjb

ninetyone said:


> Guys, im thinking of purchasing a PAM111 from this online seller, Kronopassion that I will deal with locally. Just wondering if you guys have any experience with him?
> 
> Here's the watch listing, and the link to pictures of all the accessories and paper work that comes with it. Does it look right?
> Panerai Luminor Marina PAM 111 O Series
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/deh7zh2ysrv359g/OpVRqBif4-
> 
> Thanks in advance guys. Help is greatly appreciated. As it is tax free weekend in MA and Im trying to decide whether to purchase from my local AD or this seller by this afternoon.


The pictures of movement seems to be genuine from the way the incabloc and swan neck look.


----------



## ninetyone

Thanks for your response. I finally pulled the trigger and purchased from him. Overall a very nice guy and he seems legit but I still need more assurance that the watch is legit. Numbers on the box, stickers, hang tag and warranty card matched the serial number on the back of the watch. Here are some pictures, please tell me how it looks and thank you in advance.


----------



## Travelller

ninetyone said:


> ...but I still need more assurance that the watch is legit. Numbers on the box, stickers, hang tag and warranty card matched the serial number on the back of the watch...


Looks perfect to me - congrats on a sweet 111 :-!


----------



## ninetyone

Travelller said:


> Looks perfect to me - congrats on a sweet 111 :-!


Thanks Traveller for all your help. Much appreciated!


----------



## guy369

Good morning WUS....

Wondering if you guys can spot a fake (or not) with this one.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## shnjb

guy369 said:


> Good morning WUS....
> 
> Wondering if you guys can spot a fake (or not) with this one.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> View attachment 1197760
> View attachment 1197761
> View attachment 1197762
> View attachment 1197763
> View attachment 1197764


Crown guard looks off.
Fake


----------



## Travelller

shnjb said:


> Crown guard looks off...


The crown guard looks fine to me except for the lever... its tip looks thinner than usual, but it might just be the angle, lighting, etc. The strap looks like the one that comes with the 176 (actually, I like it better). Tough call - the paperwork should be the deciding factor... good luck!


----------



## Synequano

The thing that put me off on that 005 wannabe is the lume color (looks a bit on the brownish side) along with the other stuff (box,rubber strap,screwdriver)


----------



## Travelller

Synequano said:


> The thing that put me off on that 005 wannabe is the lume color (looks a bit on the brownish side) along with the other stuff (box,rubber strap,screwdriver)


I would avoid making decisions based on color - frankly, I doubt that the "photographer" used a Kodak grey card to shoot those photos... :think: on the other hand, the fact that it's supposed to be a 2011, the paperwork looks off. I'm, not a box expert, but you've seen a lot more than me, so I'll take your word for it |> My rubber strap has a fat keeper that is "fixed" very close to the buckle (which is not the case for the one pictured with the 005). What I don't know if there is a different rubber strap for Bettarini and 1950s... :-s @GUY369, the guys above are most likely correct in raining the fake flag... :rodekaart


----------



## Synequano

Well,the real Panerai box should have the same writings on metal plague inside the lid as the other general release Pams

As for the rubber strap,AFAIK,the newer ones have fixed strap keeper as shown in travelller's pic (I think it is standard across the models,got the same one from 219,177,351,441)

The older rubber strap with no fixed strap keeper are included in G series or older Pams only,the rubber looks more glossy and felt more supple in comparison with the newer ones (I'm wearing the rubber strap from my 111E with 441 now...and I still have NOS rubber strap for deployant with floating strap keeper from other model)


----------



## ScreenKiller

hi guys does this panerai looks real?
















i'm a totally newb so please inform about this watch.


----------



## shnjb

ScreenKiller said:


> hi guys does this panerai looks real?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm a totally newb so please inform about this watch.


Where did u get this?


----------



## baseballguy

I have been watching this forum for a while. I also have been looking at these Panerai watches for a while and looking to purchase one preowned. I read through a bunch of threads and it seems that a good reccomendation is to buy through a reputable watch forum such as this one. I saw a listing on here that I was wondering if you could give me your opinion on if it is real or not. It seems as if all the paperwork is there and looks legit but would like your input before I contact the seller.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-panerai-pam-219-6-straps-$4-500-price-reduced-896214.html

thanks


----------



## ScreenKiller

shnjb said:


> Where did u get this?


friend of mine needed money quick so sold me this.
is this one real?


----------



## shnjb

ScreenKiller said:


> friend of mine needed money quick so sold me this.
> is this one real?


That's a great story.

No of course it's not real.
I'm sure the website you bought this from made that clear.


----------



## baseballguy

If you are more comfortable PM me, please feel free to do that.

thank you



baseballguy said:


> I have been watching this forum for a while. I also have been looking at these Panerai watches for a while and looking to purchase one preowned. I read through a bunch of threads and it seems that a good reccomendation is to buy through a reputable watch forum such as this one. I saw a listing on here that I was wondering if you could give me your opinion on if it is real or not. It seems as if all the paperwork is there and looks legit but would like your input before I contact the seller.
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-panerai-pam-219-6-straps-$4-500-price-reduced-896214.html
> 
> thanks


----------



## Travelller

baseballguy said:


> https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-panerai-pam-219-6-straps-$4-500-price-reduced-896214.html


That 219 looks legit to me, price is good too. It's probably a 2011 "N" but his photos are terrible, can't read the back. PM him and ask him to send you a better photo of the back. The millesimation should be N xxx/500 (or similar - I'm not exactly sure how many were released in 2011 or 2012, but it's a Destro, so the number will be small <1000). Also ask him why it's from the Middle East (maybe he was visiting family, maybe a business trip to Dubai, all fine reasons to buy overseas). Also ask him if he has more time / posts on another Watch forum; clearly with 48 posts he's not been very active at WUS, although he joined back in 2011.

Good luck :-!


----------



## Synequano

The 219 has been sold,I will double check the production number if mine is also N,I forgot what is the letter on my 219..
You can also check the production number from paneraisource as well


----------



## Synequano

Just checked,the one that I got is 219M,in M series they made 600 219s
I guess it will be roughly the same number or less for N series...


----------



## markustan

Hi guys, is this pam111 genuine? thanks for yr advice as I'm a newbie


----------



## EL_Chingon

markustan said:


> Hi guys, is this pam111 genuine? thanks for yr advice as I'm a newbie


Need more photos. the front, more of the back and the crown...do you know what the serious is?


----------



## markustan

hi, was having prob uploading photos jus now. Have just uploaded all the photos. thanks!


----------



## shnjb

markustan said:


> View attachment 1207899
> View attachment 1207896
> View attachment 1207900
> View attachment 1207897
> View attachment 1207898
> View attachment 1207901
> Hi guys, is this pam111 genuine? thanks for yr advice as I'm a newbie


almost 100% sure it is a genuine

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## markustan

shnjb said:


> almost 100% sure it is a genuine
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4


hi, how to tell it's genuine? thanks


----------



## shnjb

markustan said:


> hi, how to tell it's genuine? thanks


Sorry. That's too much work.


----------



## Travelller

markustan said:


> hi, how to tell it's genuine? thanks


With experience...


----------



## nicktanbt

shnjb said:


> That's a great story.
> 
> No of course it's not real.
> I'm sure the website you bought this from made that clear.


And a pretty bad copy too


----------



## markustan

Travelller said:


> With experience...


traveller, so u think this is genuine too?


----------



## raztoky

Hi all! Is this panerai real or fake?

If real which model is it because I was not able to determine if it was a pam0048, 50 or 
70.

Note that the entire case is polished and not brushed as described on OP catalogue. The bracelet is also all polished.

It is said to be a F serie : F xxxx/6500 (sorry, no good photo available as I m using ipad cam)


----------



## Synequano

^ is that Pam 50? The L Swiss L is consistent with F series,but 6500? Can it be the different numbering system that actually shows the number of 40 mm luminor marina auto in that year? But I guess it is a bit too much...


----------



## raztoky

Synequano said:


> ^ is that Pam 50? The L Swiss L is consistent with F series,but 6500? Can it be the different numbering system that actually shows the number of 40 mm luminor marina auto in that year? But I guess it is a bit too much...


Me too, I think this is a pam 50. About the supposed 6500 unit produced, can it be a fake one?

Envoyé de mon iPad à l'aide de Tapatalk HD


----------



## Synequano

Well,there are several factors that I'm not sure of,some other members,especially who are more familiar with older 40 mm models may be able to help
•According to paneraisource,pam 50 should have brushed case and polished bezel,however there are some models that transforms but keeping the same model number,like Pam 24..the older 24 has all polished case and bezel
•6500 of 40 mm luminor marina auto,might be possible considering there were 48,49,50,51,69,70,119,120 back in those years,I forgot when Pam changed their numbering into individual models


----------



## raztoky

Synequano said:


> ^ is that Pam 50? The L Swiss L is consistent with F series,but 6500? Can it be the different numbering system that actually shows the number of 40 mm luminor marina auto in that year? But I guess it is a bit too much...


After some researches, I think that 6500 is reasonable as per panerai sources http://www.paneraisource.com/millesimation.shtml?ordering=refno

But I still have some concerns about the polished case.  , I will start another thread about that

Many thanks Synequano,

Regards


----------



## NortheastJasper

Hi Guys

looking to buy my first Panerai and stumbled across this holy grail of Panerai's forum.

I need some help verifying this watch please, it has a box but no papers. I have been offered this by a local dealer.

Any help would be appreciated


----------



## shnjb

NortheastJasper said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> looking to buy my first Panerai and stumbled across this holy grail of Panerai's forum.
> 
> I need some help verifying this watch please, it has a box but no papers. I have been offered this by a local dealer.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated
> 
> View attachment 1225296
> View attachment 1225298
> View attachment 1225299
> View attachment 1225300


Link to the sale?
Who's the local dealer?
What's his phone number and web site?


----------



## NortheastJasper

shnjb said:


> Link to the sale?
> Who's the local dealer?
> What's his phone number and web site?


It's a Pawnbrokers/Gold Dealer in Darlington,it's a one man band.

I have had 3 watches from him and they all have been fine, currently have a Cartier Roadster xl Chrono that I am looking to trade to this but i don't know enough about this brand to be sure.


----------



## shnjb

NortheastJasper said:


> It's a Pawnbrokers/Gold Dealer in Darlington,it's a one man band.
> 
> I have had 3 watches from him and they all have been fine, currently have a Cartier Roadster xl Chrono that I am looking to trade to this but i don't know enough about this brand to be sure.


It's a 100% fake. I would get the other watches checked


----------



## NortheastJasper

other watches are all fine thanks.

Thanks for being so polite and helpful.


----------



## raztoky

shnjb said:


> It's a 100% fake. I would get the other watches checked


Perhaps, you could be more precise and explain you conclusion?
It is always good to share knowledge in this forum.
We never now, maybe one day it can help someone avoiding to buy a replica...

Raz


----------



## shnjb

raztoky said:


> Perhaps, you could be more precise and explain you conclusion?
> It is always good to share knowledge in this forum.
> We never now, maybe one day it can help someone avoiding to buy a replica...
> 
> Raz


Google incabloc

The shape of the incabloc on that watch is wrong.
It's a typical error on most fake Panerais.
ETA 6497 movement should have a different shape of incablocs from that fake watch.


----------



## raztoky

shnjb said:


> Google incabloc
> 
> The shape of the incabloc on that watch is wrong.
> It's a typical error on most fake Panerais.
> ETA 6497 movement should have a different shape of incablocs from that fake watch.


Thanks for the explanation,

i think the watch was supposed to be a 177.

The movement also seemed to lack a cote de geneve decoration .










But... very well finished for a faked one.

Envoyé de mon iPad à l'aide de Tapatalk HD


----------



## Travelller

NortheastJasper said:


> ...I need some help verifying this watch please, it has a box but no papers. I have been offered this by a local dealer...


At first glance, it looks ok to me; the incabloc looks a bit odd, but that could be based on the ambient lighting, angle, etc. The problem you have is that there are excellent replicas of these "historical" Panerai models that a good Panerai Grey dealer couldn't distinguish from the real deal without the associated paperwork, let alone a "pawnshop"... . The box can be faked, and/or an OEM can be bought too, so it does little to reassure one. Personally, I wouldn't risk it; anything in this price-range should be bought with paperwork. Again, you dealer may be a nice guy, but I'm betting he's not an expert and a high-quality replica will certainly slip under his radar... :-(



shnjb said:


> It's a 100% fake. I would get the other watches checked ... The shape of the incabloc on that watch is wrong ...


I have a 6498 right in front of my nose and the differences are so minute that it could be attributed to the quality of the photograph*. You must have a keen eye for the finest details... let's hope so because I find your comments a bit on the _absolute_ side of things... :think:
_*Ditto for the seemingly lack of Côtes de Genève - I think it's there, but the angle & lighting has greyed out the subtle pattern (as well as that incabloc)._


----------



## shnjb

Just zoom in to the incabloc. It's not a gray area issue. It's definitely a fake watch.


----------



## Travelller

shnjb said:


> Just zoom in to the incabloc. It's not a gray area issue. It's definitely a fake watch.


Sorry, I don't see it. Anyway, a stock 6497 costs what, about €300? A perfect replica will start off with a stock 6497 and then mod the platine and swan neck etc, but the incabloc is the same... Panerai doesn't change the incabloc on a 6497.

If anything, I don't like the block that holds the set-screw... looks like the screws are set too close to the inner-edge of the block... what do I know, maybe there was some p-shopping going on... :think:

















_c/o oysterinfo.de_

At the end of the day, I don't buy watches without papers... ;-)


----------



## shnjb

Real one









Fake one


----------



## jmarchitect

Have to say i agreed with shjnb before he put up the marked-up close-ups. The incabloc did look odd but more odd was the gap between the little screw and the speed adjuster, making this one a fake in my eyes. A decent pawnbroker would have had it checked out before taking it in so either he has been duped himself and has seen the last of the loan he gave on it or he is preying on eager watch enthusiasts to make a quick buck. Either way, i would avoid him like the plague.


----------



## Travelller

shnjb said:


> Real one... Fake one


Thanks for the graphics |> it certainly outlines the differences! I notice that the incablock & base were reversed 180 and I figured it was a non-consequential variation in configuration. But the block / set-screw is definitely "screwy"... ! Thank you for your "lesson" - you will undoubtedly save a few souls their hard-earned money!!! :-! Again, I won't buy one w/o paperwork; it's not worth the risk!

I still don't understand why the replicas deviate so much from a standard 6497. Here's a macro of a 6498 in my Victorinox... and that was a @1K watch...


----------



## garyf8

Hi there, I am a British expat living in Hong Kong. Today I purchased my 2nd PAM177. I sold one a few years back and regretted it. I paid a good sum (around 4500 USD) which I thought seemed about right. Its a 2nd hand G series (2005/2006) i think... One thing I noticed is that there appears to be a a very slight blue tint at certain angles under normal home lighting (tungsten), I don't remember my previous 177 having that (that was a K series), not sure if its just because its an older coating....so now ive become instantly paranoid...as i've heard stories of fake PAMs with blue tint...its only very very slight under certain light, but would love for some expert to see the images and hopefully reassure me...I bought it from what appeared to be a very reputable dealer that sells pre-owned watches and is quite well known. It came complete with box, all paperwork etc and a new panerai rubber strap as well as alligator strap (the other thing that got me wondering was the new rubber strap says on the packet 'made in Austria' and on the rubber strap says 'Italy'...?!...and lastly the number is 058/900....i remember my last watch was of '500', again, i can't find info that verifies if thats the right number they made or not, I'm guessing a trip to the Panerai dealer is in order, but if anyone here has some good knowledge I would be most grateful. Heres some pics of the watch....please please please don't tell me i've bought a fake! lol.....fingers crossed...


----------



## shnjb

Travelller said:


> Thanks for the graphics |> it certainly outlines the differences! I notice that the incablock & base were reversed 180 and I figured it was a non-consequential variation in configuration. But the block / set-screw is definitely "screwy"... ! Thank you for your "lesson" - you will undoubtedly save a few souls their hard-earned money!!! :-! Again, I won't buy one w/o paperwork; it's not worth the risk!
> 
> I still don't understand why the replicas deviate so much from a standard 6497. Here's a macro of a 6498 in my Victorinox... and that was a @1K watch...


Yes detecting a fake panerai is not as easy as comparing to a stock ETA movement in other non panerai watches.


----------



## raztoky

shnjb said:


> Yes detecting a fake panerai is not as easy as comparing to a stock ETA movement in other non panerai watches.


For my curiosity, what are the most common points on fake OP III / 7750 - based?


----------



## shnjb

raztoky said:


> For my curiosity, what are the most common points on fake OP III / 7750 - based?


No idea about the 7750s.
7750s are usually ugly movements that Swiss manufacturers don't display in an open caseback design so I guess fakes don't display it either.


----------



## Synequano

Garyf8,I think your 177 is legit,the older 177 (as well as 111) has bluish tinge on the sapphire
As for the rubber strap,I think the G/H series original strap is the one with made in austria at the back and floating keeper vs the newer one with fixed keeper
As for the watch,it looks okay to me,the Hxxx/900 is consistent with the millestimation given on paneraisource,and the incabloc looks okay


----------



## Mbeyazca

real


----------



## garyf8

Great, Synequano, thanks very much for taking the time to have a look. The dealier is supposedly legit in Hong Kong, this was one of the cheaper watches compared to some of the stuff they have including all the vintage rolexes, etc and have many friends that have recommended them, so im sure its fine...just that blue tint spurred a memory that i heard ages ago about fakes, so very reassuring to hear that its normal! lol...Thanks so much again for the help.


----------



## raztoky

garyf8 said:


> Great, Synequano, thanks very much for taking the time to have a look. The dealier is supposedly legit in Hong Kong, this was one of the cheaper watches compared to some of the stuff they have including all the vintage rolexes, etc and have many friends that have recommended them, so im sure its fine...just that blue tint spurred a memory that i heard ages ago about fakes, so very reassuring to hear that its normal! lol...Thanks so much again for the help.


Unlike Breitling or Iwc, AR coating on Panerai is applied only on the inside face of the crystal. Thus, it will show a barely noticeable blue tint on a certain angle. I heard that it can even be yellow on some models (though I haven't seen any of these yet)

On mine, the blueish tint can only be seen under intense light but I can usually see under normal condition a little blue point on the magnifying glass.

Raz


----------



## raztoky

Mbeyazca said:


> Hi friends. What do you think about this watch? Dealer sent me this photos.
> View attachment 1228814
> View attachment 1228815
> View attachment 1228816


It seems to be a recent serie
It is apparently a painted dial.
I am not familiar with Rads but I am wondering if it should not feature a sandwich dial instead?

Envoyé de mon iPad à l'aide de Tapatalk HD


----------



## shnjb

Mbeyazca said:


> Hi friends. What do you think about this watch? Dealer sent me this photos.
> View attachment 1228814
> View attachment 1228815
> View attachment 1228816


Who's the dealer?

I think this is a replica 380N


----------



## raztoky

shnjb said:


> Who's the dealer?
> 
> I think this is a replica 380N


At first sight, the crown system is a bit longer than the genuine 380 but may be it is due to the angle from which the pic was taken.

The n serie is not yet available on paneraisource.com for a precise checking of millesimation.

Envoyé de mon iPad à l'aide de Tapatalk HD


----------



## ligerny

.


----------



## NortheastJasper

Hi Guys 
sorry missed all your discussions as been away, i have had the watch checked by Berrys Jewelers and they confirmed it as genuine and are happy to carry out a service on the watch! I am now stumped once I have the watch back I can take some close up pictures of the movement if it would help ?

Thanks again for all your input and the explanation of why it is/is not a replica


----------



## shnjb

NortheastJasper said:


> Hi Guys
> sorry missed all your discussions as been away, i have had the watch checked by Berrys Jewelers and they confirmed it as genuine and are happy to carry out a service on the watch! I am now stumped once I have the watch back I can take some close up pictures of the movement if it would help ?
> 
> Thanks again for all your input and the explanation of why it is/is not a replica


I don't know who berrrys jewelers is but it is a fake watch.
Sorry.


----------



## NortheastJasper

Designer Jewellery and Watches From Berry's Jewellers

Pan dealer in the UK 
I have spent the last hour looking at swan necks and the Incabloc spring holders

Am I right in saying the watch should have this movement .

Panerai Caliber OP XI - OPXI

I also found some useful info on here to comparing various parts against a genuine

http://www......../board/index.php?showtopic=44839

the guy has agreed to a total refund if proven to be a replica and i think the detail this site goes to does prove this.


----------



## shnjb

Yes it should have that movement but the pictures you posted above have different swan neck, incabloc and bad "PANERAI" engravings.

I would get it authenticated by OFFICINE PANERAI.


----------



## NortheastJasper

I would be happy to send to them if i could find details of where I would send it, i agree with you and this may be a replica


----------



## shnjb

NortheastJasper said:


> I would be happy to send to them if i could find details of where I would send it


Get serial and the papers and the pictures and call the boutique near you or visit.

But it's not rocket science. Just look at the pictures above.


----------



## NortheastJasper

i agree with you and this may be a replica.

like i have said i agree... i have also learned a lot from the websites i found the information on.

it wouldn't hurt if you didn't have such a chip on your shoulder and be a little more polite.

I'm sure you were once as in the dark as the majority of the people out there.


----------



## shnjb

NortheastJasper said:


> i agree with you and this may be a replica.
> 
> like i have said i agree... i have also learned a lot from the websites i found the information on.
> 
> it wouldn't hurt if you didn't have such a chip on your shoulder and be a little more polite.
> 
> I'm sure you were once as in the dark as the majority of the people out there.


Chip on my shoulder ?
Pal I just saved u trouble.
I'm typing this on my phone n doing it just for fun.
Don't expect too much from people helping you for free.


----------



## Galactic Sushiman

NortheastJasper said:


> i agree with you and this may be a replica.
> 
> like i have said i agree... i have also learned a lot from the websites i found the information on.
> 
> it wouldn't hurt if you didn't have such a chip on your shoulder and be a little more polite.
> 
> I'm sure you were once as in the dark as the majority of the people out there.


You can expect to be treated like a customer in a commercial relationship, but this is just a forum, where a poster is asking for a service (which has a price point) for free, and a specialist is responding for free.

Of course, the tone may not be to your liking - especially if it's a fake  - but still, you should be happy to have obtained a precise and technical advice especially when the poster also provide you with a rough image as an explanation. It's a lot of effort for someone you never met 

edit: and of course I was too late, sorry for basically repeating the post above


----------



## Travelller

NortheastJasper said:


> ...once I have the watch back I can take some close up pictures of the movement if it would help...


Sure, it can't hurt; Although I trust that shnjb has a better eye for details then me, I wouldn't mind seeing a proper, head-on (macro) photo of the movement. Keep in mind that even an exact-looking movement doesn't guarantee authenticity, only Panerai can do so using the watch's serial, case and millesimation numbers.


----------



## korneevy

Travelller said:


> Sure, it can't hurt; Although I trust that shnjb has a better eye for details then me, I wouldn't mind seeing a proper, head-on (macro) photo of the movement. Keep in mind that even an exact-looking movement doesn't guarantee authenticity, only Panerai can do so using the watch's serial, case and millesimation numbers.


I am not sure why you guys think that OP would bother authenticating these watches - trust me, they will not, as a matter of policy...no upside for them and they bear all the risk so why bother? Unless you have a connect on the inside or it is blatantly fake, like really very much, lowest-grade fake, you will never receive a written confirmation of the watch being genuine from OP. For better, yet suspect-looking fakes or Frankenstein watches, you are pretty much limited to the one and only way of doing it - send it in for a service via Boutique or AD, and if they return it to you from OPCS with a service receipt, use it as your authentication document in lieu of papers etc. If they find it to be fake, they will confiscate and destroy it, and what you will get back as your authentication documents is a letter with OP logo on it, saying they've done so because your watch was counterfeit.


----------



## raztoky

korneevy said:


> I am not sure why you guys think that OP would bother authenticating these watches - trust me, they will not, as a matter of policy...no upside for them and they bear all the risk so why bother? Unless you have a connect on the inside or it is blatantly fake, like really very much, lowest-grade fake, you will never receive a written confirmation of the watch being genuine from OP. For better, yet suspect-looking fakes or Frankenstein watches, you are pretty much limited to the one and only way of doing it - send it in for a service via Boutique or AD, and if they return it to you from OPCS with a service receipt, use it as your authentication document in lieu of papers etc. If they find it to be fake, they will confiscate and destroy it, and what you will get back as your authentication documents is a letter with OP logo on it, saying they've done so because your watch was counterfeit.


So to make it simple : do not send your watch for authentication or service if in doubt. ;-)

I am just wondering will frankenwatches be confiscated as well? will OP accept to service them?


----------



## leoM

Galactic Sushiman said:


> You can expect to be treated like a customer in a commercial relationship, but this is just a forum, where a poster is asking for a service (which has a price point) for free, and a specialist is responding for free.
> 
> Of course, the tone may not be to your liking - especially if it's a fake  - but still, you should be happy to have obtained a precise and technical advice especially when the poster also provide you with a rough image as an explanation. It's a lot of effort for someone you never met
> 
> edit: and of course I was too late, sorry for basically repeating the post above


Looking to buy a used Panerai 104 and read this thread for education but I'm more confused than ever. Some of the deals I've seen on WUS are from sellers with good solid history (unlike me) which seems the safest option for online purchase at least. But would it be rude to ask such a seller to 'guarantee' authenticity - I assume they would object to the question being asked. If not, how could they do it over the net? Just a newbie so forgive the ignorance.


----------



## raztoky

leoM said:


> Looking to buy a used Panerai 104 and read this thread for education but I'm more confused than ever. Some of the deals I've seen on WUS are from sellers with good solid history (unlike me) which seems the safest option for online purchase at least. But would it be rude to ask such a seller to 'guarantee' authenticity - I assume they would object to the question being asked. If not, how could they do it over the net? Just a newbie so forgive the ignorance.


Not at all, for a 4K$ watch, you have all the rights to ask for a watch proof of authenticity. A seller would normally not object to this king of question because for this kind of transaction the seller and the buyer are assuming each other both have a good knowledge of luxury watches and then authenticity proof is a must have. If the seller refuses, then just walk away. 
Anyway, for a newbie, it's better to buy from an AD to avoid any problem (and regrets)!

good luck


----------



## leoM

raztoky said:


> Not at all, for a 4K$ watch, you have all the rights to ask for a watch proof of authenticity. A seller would normally not object to this king of question because for this kind of transaction the seller and the buyer are assuming each other both have a good knowledge of luxury watches and then authenticity proof is a must have. If the seller refuses, then just walk away.
> Anyway, for a newbie, it's better to buy from an AD to avoid any problem (and regrets)!
> 
> good luck


Thank you Raztoky, advice appreciated. Ball-park, how much mark-up would I be paying to an AD as opposed to online dealer/genuine private seller? ? Maybe an impossible question but some of the AD prices I've seen put the whole thing beyond my pocket!

Cheers


----------



## raztoky

leoM said:


> Thank you Raztoky, advice appreciated. Ball-park, how much mark-up would I be paying to an AD as opposed to online dealer/genuine private seller? ? Maybe an impossible question but some of the AD prices I've seen put the whole thing beyond my pocket!
> 
> Cheers


I think it's worth trying. Sometimes, AD can offer very interesting mark-up (especially if they see you are ready to buy the watch - show 'em the cash$$!!!!!  ), but you have to try! The problem with a pre-owned one s that if it has not been serviced for a while, the service cost can easily offset the price difference between a brand new one especially if some parts have to be replaced.

There is nothing wrong about buying a preowned, it's just that you have to know what you are doing...


----------



## Galactic Sushiman

leoM said:


> Looking to buy a used Panerai 104 and read this thread for education but I'm more confused than ever. Some of the deals I've seen on WUS are from sellers with good solid history (unlike me) which seems the safest option for online purchase at least. But would it be rude to ask such a seller to 'guarantee' authenticity - I assume they would object to the question being asked. If not, how could they do it over the net? Just a newbie so forgive the ignorance.


Can you require some kind of 'proof' for authenticity? Yes you can.
Does that change anything? Not really.

When one is able to forge a fake movement that looks pretty much like the real deal, he can surely fake a piece of paper with a date and a stamp... At the end of the day, you will NEVER be 100% sure the watch is authentic unless you can see it in person in an AD/have it sent to Officine Panerai for authentication. Can you get to 95% with paper work, pics, advice from WUS, sharing pics and all? Oh yeah, for sure. But you will NEVER get to 100%. Except if you buy it from an reputable AD.

What's the % difference between grey market and AD? Very easy to find out yourself: go to the nearest AD, ask for the price of the model you seek, negotiate a bit, ask for their best price, then go online and compare for 'new/unworn' from a Chrono24 trusted seller / or from all the luxury watch shops which sell Panerai but do not state they are an AD. Is that difference acceptable to you? Then buy from an AD. Is it too much? Then you'll need to take some sort of leap of faith. Good luck.


----------



## leoM

raztoky said:


> I think it's worth trying. Sometimes, AD can offer very interesting mark-up (especially if they see you are ready to buy the watch - show 'em the cash$$!!!!!  ), but you have to try! The problem with a pre-owned one s that if it has not been serviced for a while, the service cost can easily offset the price difference between a brand new one especially if some parts have to be replaced.
> 
> There is nothing wrong about buying a preowned, it's just that you have to know what you are doing...


Thanks again Raztoky - you've summed it up for me and the whole answer to my dilemma is in your point: 'you have to know what you are doing'. I dont - so guess I'm at risk on lots of fronts if I dont go AD!

Much appreciated.


----------



## leoM

Excellent advice and logic Sushiman, thank you for that. Looking at what you and Raztoky have said carefully and I can see my choices (none) - its AD. Its going to be a longer wait than I thought.

Thanks again


----------



## chinglish

Hey guys,

A friend of mine is interested in buying this watch online. He would like to know if it is genuine or not. Also, what are the distinguishing elements that match/do not match an authentic model. I have told him to go to an authorized dealer but he persists in asking me to verify this watch.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## korneevy

chinglish said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> A friend of mine is interested in buying this watch online. He would like to know if it is genuine or not. Also, what are the distinguishing elements that match/do not match an authentic model. I have told him to go to an authorized dealer but he persists in asking me to verify this watch.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> View attachment 1253692
> View attachment 1253693
> View attachment 1253694
> View attachment 1253695
> View attachment 1253696
> View attachment 1253697


It's a fake and a cheap one at that. Too many things to list, but the movement and date window should be enough for anyone, even half blind, to bin thus thing.


----------



## Travelller

The # of 1st-posters that come here (and then are never heard from again) is rather impressive... .
So my cut-n-paste reply willl from now on be:

_"It's unfortunately just another fake. Thanks for stopping by and have a nice life"_ :-!


----------



## shnjb

They might be just trying to see if their fake is good or not


----------



## gerzzzzz

leoM said:


> Thanks again Raztoky - you've summed it up for me and the whole answer to my dilemma is in your point: 'you have to know what you are doing'. I dont - so guess I'm at risk on lots of fronts if I dont go AD!
> 
> Much appreciated.


Easy, get it from top reseller. Like David SW, etc.
They've done thousands of top end watches, won't scam you for just a panerai


----------



## chinglish

Hello everyone, 

thank you very much for you insightful replies! i had expected it to be a replica but i couldn't exactly see what was wrong. I will notify my friend about these findings. Could anyone specifically tell me what is out of place as I honestly could not find the differences. 

Thank you for your time!


----------



## Wlover

The entire movement...



chinglish said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> thank you very much for you insightful replies! i had expected it to be a replica but i couldn't exactly see what was wrong. I will notify my friend about these findings. Could anyone specifically tell me what is out of place as I honestly could not find the differences.
> 
> Thank you for your time!


----------



## korneevy

chinglish said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> thank you very much for you insightful replies! i had expected it to be a replica but i couldn't exactly see what was wrong. I will notify my friend about these findings. Could anyone specifically tell me what is out of place as I honestly could not find the differences.
> 
> Thank you for your time!


The whole watch....not sure why you need to create a laundry list for your friend as it is clearly a 30$ fake...just makes no sense.


----------



## gerzzzzz

I really think we should only help them by saying real or fake. 
Discussing which parts look dodgy is just helping them to make better fake.


----------



## amanda

gerzzzzz said:


> I really think we should only help them by saying real or fake.
> Discussing which parts look dodgy is just helping them to make better fake.


Erm the producers of fake watches, buy the original item and pull it apart to make better fakes! So you aren't teaching them anything they can't learn in a better way themselves.


----------



## leoM

So could I ask your opinion on the PAM 104 currently for sale by Drster on WUS? Presumably he wont take offence at this post?


----------



## Mystro

*Panerai Pam 104 fake to genuine comparison pic*

Here is a Panerai Pam 104 Fake comparison to my Genuine Pam 104. 
These are some of the best fake examples I could find.

Remember, Fake watches = Fake people.


----------



## Farah

*Re: Panerai Pam 104 fake to genuine comparison pic*

Hi, can anyone tell me if this 372 is the real deal or not?



















thank you


----------



## Genebe

*Re: Panerai Pam 104 fake to genuine comparison pic*

^^^

Yes, a Panerai dealer could tell you with 100% accuracy.

Blurry photos, no photo of the movement or any details, 1st time poster asking for verification = suspicious, to say the least.

At least you said "Hi"


----------



## Synequano

Mystro,to my eyes both looks almost the same,which is scary....


----------



## Farah

*Re: Panerai Pam 104 fake to genuine comparison pic*



Genebe said:


> ^^^
> 
> Yes, a Panerai dealer could tell you with 100% accuracy.
> 
> Blurry photos, no photo of the movement or any details, 1st time poster asking for verification = suspicious, to say the least.
> 
> At least you said "Hi"


Sorry to hear you're suspicious but I hoped that someone more experienced could give me their opinion as to authenticity. These are the photos the seller sent me, and one with a warranty card. This is to be my first panerai and maybe I should wait to get a new one from an AD as I can't tell real from fake.

thanks anyway.


----------



## Wlover

*Re: Panerai Pam 104 fake to genuine comparison pic*



Farah said:


> Hi, can anyone tell me if this 372 is the real deal or not?
> thank you


ask the seller to send another photo of the see through caseback. 372 in house movement is pretty hard to fake...


----------



## Mystro

I know. Thats why its scary as hell to buy a pre owned Paneria. Usually you have to handle the watch and operate the crown lock to see if it is tight and well fitted. AR color like blue tint can be a sign of a fake. Color of print but unfortunately you need a real one to compare it to. The "A" is sometimes doesnt look right. Wrong date code. I have never seen a Rolex or Omega that is copied to such exacting standards.



Synequano said:


> Mystro,to my eyes both looks almost the same,which is scary....


----------



## Synequano

Well,older Pams have that blue AR coatings too,as shown on my 111E,92G and 24H,will check it on my 23A but I think it has blue AR as well
The newer model,such as M series all the way to O have white AR tinge though....cannot comment on the latest P series since I haven't handle one myself....


----------



## ScreenKiller

this one real?
the seller sells it for 2700 euro.
says it lost the certificate but has checked the watch for authenticity.


----------



## Synequano

That looks like a legit 111,but the movt shot is a bit blurry to really tell,just wait for the experts to chime in...


----------



## shnjb

Why would movement shot b blurry?
Does the seller have a blackberry? Doesn't make sense.


----------



## fisherman

Hi Guys
i picked this up a while back. I never really checked it out until now. Can some one tell me if this deployment clasp is real or fake. 
Thanks
Joel


----------



## fisherman

Sorry here is a better Picture


----------



## fisherman

Hi Guys
I picked this deployment clasp up a while back. I just pulled it out of the draw. I was curious if it's real or fake
Thanks
Joel


----------



## timepeace

sheesh -- I can't believe how "real" some of these "reps" look...

I might steer clear of buying from eBay or anyone other than a dealer.


----------



## trammway

Hello Folks,

I'm repeating my post in my thread here:https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/pane...168-my-choice-help-required-strap-940734.html

What do you guys think about this movement is it genuine in your eyes or fake?


----------



## korneevy

trammway said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> I'm repeating my post in my thread here:https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/pane...168-my-choice-help-required-strap-940734.html
> 
> What do you guys think about this movement is it genuine in your eyes or fake?
> 
> View attachment 1286531
> View attachment 1286534
> View attachment 1286536


I'd go with fake. Also what the heck is wrong with the chrono function? Looks like all sundials are counting while the central seconds is frozen?


----------



## timepeace

trammway said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> I'm repeating my post in my thread here:https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/pane...168-my-choice-help-required-strap-940734.html
> 
> What do you guys think about this movement is it genuine in your eyes or fake?
> 
> View attachment 1286531
> View attachment 1286534
> View attachment 1286536


Something doesn't feel right here...


----------



## jayely1

Did I finally find a real Panerai?! Band is not original said said..Is the rest??


----------



## Edri22

Hello there. Can you please help ke identyfie this model of panerai that i have because i am lost i cant find it anywhere and i am beggining to feel that it is a fake. Thank you in advance.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## vdub007

is that a joke?

i think that's the worst fake i've ever seen!!

look cheap from a mile!


----------



## jayely1

Anyone please?


----------



## Edri22

Thank you. But if it is a replica.which model is this replica.Which PAM. Because i can't find the model.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Synequano

One have very blurry pic,while the other one is just meh....everything seemed so wrong....


----------



## shnjb

Edri22 said:


> Hello there. Can you please help ke identyfie this model of panerai that i have because i am lost i cant find it anywhere and i am beggining to feel that it is a fake. Thank you in advance.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


This isn't even worth commenting on other than for comedic relief.


----------



## Travelller

jayely1 said:


> Did I finally find a real Panerai?! Band is not original said said..Is the rest??


The three photos show more of the same - I mean the dial looks like a legit 005 but we would need to see the back. Does it come with papers?


----------



## jayely1

Has all paperwork, here's the back


----------



## shnjb

jayely1 said:


> Has all paperwork, here's the back


How can anyone authenticate a 50 pixel picture?


----------



## jayely1

Click the photo...


----------



## Travelller

jayely1 said:


> Has all paperwork, here's the back


Millesimation looks fine (1200 for 2008). The "PB" # has to match the paperwork; he should send you privately a pic of the paperwork. Check out Chrono24 for a photo of the paperwork so you have an idea what it should look like (they can fake paperwork just as easily as the watches, if not easier.) If the paperwork looks legit and the figures match, you should be GTG.

This is no 100% guarantee and as everyone always points out, you should "buy the seller". Good luck |>

p.s.
http://www.chrono24.at/panerai/gent...minor-marina-logo-dial-pam0005--id2345208.htm


----------



## vealmike

How about this one chaps?
Panerai Luminor GMT PAM00088 impeccable condition 2009 watch UK supplied | eBay

(on behalf of a poster in another forum)


----------



## yabood

Gentlemen,

I am long Panerai lover, and a few days ago I bough my first Panerai 359 on eBay. Watch looked authentic from the photos, but after winning the auction, I got suspicious for whatever reason, and decided to investigate the seller even further. I was able to find the seller online. He has multiple videos posted here and there, and I was able to match his name and email address the ebay/paypal email address as well as first and last name. My problem right now is that the person I found online doesn't match what's in the photos. One black and other is white. So obviously the photos do not belong to the same person. I emailed the seller and asked if he had COA and the name of the place he bought the watch from. He replied saying that the receipt and the COA were shipped with the watch. The watch will arrive on Friday, and right now I'm think about the AD on the receipt to see if the sale did actually happen. However, I'm thinking about returning the watch anyway regardless of whether or not AD can be verified. Thoughts? Below are the photos from the eBay post. Will update with actual photos once the watch is delivered.

















































































Person I found online is black. Full name and email address match the seller on ebay. Yet the photos below belong to a white person.


----------



## ShaggyDog

That sounds a bit of a bizarre situation...


----------



## Travelller

yabood said:


> ...a few days ago I bough my first Panerai 359 on eBay ... I was able to find the seller online. ... I was able to match his name and email address the ebay/paypal email address as well as first and last name. My problem right now is that the person I found online doesn't match what's in the photos ...


It could very well be that the seller used the same photos sent to him by the owner before him (unless he told you that he bought it directly from an AD). What's pictured is a legit 359 so if he sends you everything that's exactly on the photos I wouldn't sweat it. It's already on it's way, right? Paypal has some kind of policy that protects the buyer for some number of days, so I think you're on the safe side.

Fingers crossed / let us know how it goes :-!


----------



## yabood

Travelller said:


> It could very well be that the seller used the same photos sent to him by the owner before him (unless he told you that he bought it directly from an AD). What's pictured is a legit 359 so if he sends you everything that's exactly on the photos I wouldn't sweat it. It's already on it's way, right? Paypal has some kind of policy that protects the buyer for some number of days, so I think you're on the safe side.
> 
> Fingers crossed / let us know how it goes :-!


Thanks! I hope you're right.


----------



## ShaggyDog

I don't know, it seems like it could be dodgy to me. You should ask the seller to take a picture of the watch with the hands set to a specific time of your choosing with the watch on todays newspaper. That's what people here sometimes do in order to check that the seller actually has the watch.


----------



## Synequano

The 359 looks legit to me,it's hard to fake an in house movt like P9000


----------



## korneevy

Synequano said:


> The 359 looks legit to me,it's hard to fake an in house movt like P9000


Actually it is not hard (considering the level of finish on cheaper end of Panerai manufacture movements) and has been done...so be careful as you need to know what you are looking at. However, this piece on the photos is def genuine, but I'd triple check that what you get in the mail is the same item, and matching all serials and movement numbers from the paperwork. Worst case, take it to any AD who know their PAM and they can tell in a sec whether the movement is fake or not, if they worth their AD license. IMHO, the whole black/white thing is irrelevant, many people buy from gray dealers who do take quality photos with professional equipment,and when deciding to sell, simply reuse those as they make watch a lot more attractive than your average Joe's iPhone attempts with poor lighting. This could mean, though, that the photos are dated (whether by a day or a few years, who knows?) and the seller should have made it clear and disclosed any deviations from the condition when the photos were taken...


----------



## shnjb

The p9000 seems legit to me but the picture does not provide enough detail of the movement.
With panerais you really need to look at the movement.


----------



## yabood

korneevy said:


> Actually it is not hard (considering the level of finish on cheaper end of Panerai manufacture movements) and has been done...so be careful as you need to know what you are looking at. However, this piece on the photos is def genuine, but I'd triple check that what you get in the mail is the same item, and matching all serials and movement numbers from the paperwork. Worst case, take it to any AD who know their PAM and they can tell in a sec whether the movement is fake or not, if they worth their AD license. IMHO, the whole black/white thing is irrelevant, many people buy from gray dealers who do take quality photos with professional equipment,and when deciding to sell, simply reuse those as they make watch a lot more attractive than your average Joe's iPhone attempts with poor lighting. This could mean, though, that the photos are dated (whether by a day or a few years, who knows?) and the seller should have made it clear and disclosed any deviations from the condition when the photos were taken...


The watch arrives on Friday. I'll keep you guys posted.


----------



## yabood

shnjb said:


> The p9000 seems legit to me but the picture does not provide enough detail of the movement.
> With panerais you really need to look at the movement.


Will snap high res photos the minute the watch is delivered.


----------



## salu

Hi Guys, I am new to here and the watch market. Will perform a trade with a local selling in Hong Kong tomorrow on a PAM 088. any comment here? It comes with box and papers but I know this can be a easy fake. Below are the photos from whatsapp: Please feel free on providing me your feedback and comments.

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy294/saluhk/PAM88/E35631AE-8978-4CB4-A89F-2367899A9F28_zpsircshmxh.jpg


----------



## Synequano

Match the numbers on caseback with the papers and paneraisource..as for the boxes,check the for sale post and chrono24,the fake box is usually different in the details (writings,hinges,button,details etc)


----------



## yabood

yabood said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> I am long Panerai lover, and a few days ago I bough my first Panerai 359 on eBay. Watch looked authentic from the photos, but after winning the auction, I got suspicious for whatever reason, and decided to investigate the seller even further. I was able to find the seller online. He has multiple videos posted here and there, and I was able to match his name and email address the ebay/paypal email address as well as first and last name. My problem right now is that the person I found online doesn't match what's in the photos. One black and other is white. So obviously the photos do not belong to the same person. I emailed the seller and asked if he had COA and the name of the place he bought the watch from. He replied saying that the receipt and the COA were shipped with the watch. The watch will arrive on Friday, and right now I'm think about the AD on the receipt to see if the sale did actually happen. However, I'm thinking about returning the watch anyway regardless of whether or not AD can be verified. Thoughts? Below are the photos from the eBay post. Will update with actual photos once the watch is delivered.
> 
> View attachment 1312981
> 
> 
> View attachment 1312982
> 
> 
> View attachment 1312984
> 
> 
> View attachment 1312986
> 
> 
> View attachment 1312987
> 
> 
> View attachment 1312988
> 
> 
> View attachment 1312989
> 
> 
> View attachment 1312990
> 
> 
> View attachment 1312991
> 
> 
> View attachment 1312992
> 
> 
> Person I found online is black. Full name and email address match the seller on ebay. Yet the photos below belong to a white person.
> 
> View attachment 1312993
> 
> 
> View attachment 1312994


Just wanted to give you guys an update on this. So unfortunately, I was right, it was/is a scam. The watch was supposed to be delivered on Friday Dec 20, but by Wed Dec 18, the USPS tracking number was saying that the address was not found, and the item was being sent to the shipper. Also, the shipping location was different than what was listed on eBay, so another data point. In any case, I immediately created an eBay ticket, and was asked to wait for 3 business days to give the seller a chance to respond. Today was the deadline, and the seller didn't respond to the eBay ticket. Instead, he sent a direct payment request through paypal with a note that says "You need to remove this hold from my account as I am certain you have already received your merchandise from QXL Auctions. The next step is for me to furnish all information and documentation to my attorney."

I escalated the ticket today, and should get an answer on my refund request within 48 hours. With Christmas and all, I don't think I'll hear back before Friday.

In any case, on Friday, I actually went to an AD in my area, and bought me a brand new PAM359.. Love it!


----------



## shnjb

Unfortunate but not surprising result.
Hope you get your money back.


----------



## ShaggyDog

It seemed pretty obvious that it was a scam right from the start when you first posted about it here. I hope you recover your money but there just seemed to be so many red flags it's a warning to us all to be careful when buying from sites like that.


----------



## guy369

I apologize for the thread I started, I did not see this sticky.

Here are some pics, your expert opinions are greatly appreciated.

If possible, could you give me a history and value of this watch?

Thanks you!


----------



## Synequano

Looks like a legit 25A to me,but the scratches on the dial are pretty bad and the pic show un-patina-ed lume despite the age and T Swiss made T on the bottom of the dial? The millestimation is Axxxx/1500 right?

It is pam 25A from 1998ish,that should be enough info for you to search for its value


----------



## STARSTELLA

The engravings on the case back look a little shallow to me.If you haven't bought it yet, you might request a movement pic.


----------



## guy369

STARSTELLA said:


> The engravings on the case back look a little shallow to me.If you haven't bought it yet, you might request a movement pic.


Unfortunately the person trading it does not have the tools nor skill set to pull that off.

I am hoping this board can save me a 3 hour drive (each way) to make this trade.

I have a watch he wants badly, and will come out far ahead if this PAM is authentic.

We will of course meet at a reputable dealer to verify its authenticity, I just don't want to drive 6 hours for a fake PAM.


----------



## STARSTELLA

Well, I can be the honest guy here and admit I have had a couple reps in my day. The case back concerns me. Titanium is a hard material and that watch would have to have A LOT of wear for the skin on someones wrist to soften the lines of the engraving up that much. On the other hand, one of the tell tail signs of a rep is the crown guard and the lever. I'm sure there are those who know far better than me, but those look right to me. The relationship of the lever to the side of the case, that is. A pic from the side would help too. The other thing going for you... I can't see the chinese making a rep that good when the watch was a current piece...IE, reps in the 90's were low quality Canal St specials...I don't think the guys making quality reps these days would go out of their way to replicate a model like the 025 with its original bezel.

That being said, my best guess using his rough pics on value... 3k maybe? The early 025 don't seem to be as collectable as the early 024. I've seen a few 025 models in much better shape on the market for $4200.00 with service history. Any watchmaker that does restoration will have $500.00 in just making her pretty again then who knows whats going on inside! The titanium deployant would add some value, but that strap is most likely seen better days. 

Just my $.02


----------



## Synequano

I do agree that Ti deployant may add value,especially because A series Pam did not come with deployant (even 64C sub didn't come with deployant)
I've seen E-F model with friction deployant,but still not 100% sure if it's standard or just an add-on...


----------



## shnjb

I would post on a paneristi forum to verify.
Driving six hours is A ....ING LONG TIME!!!!!


----------



## _Zed_

Hi Guys,

Would you be able to help me here.

Any concerns over this PAM292 being anything but legitimate?

Many thanks,

Zed


----------



## Synequano

The 292 looks okay,as for the price,check watchrecon or chrono24


----------



## _Zed_

Thanks Synequano


----------



## Matt C

Hey guys, is this bracelet real? Thanks in advance!

http://bit.ly/Lsrj2N

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## notional

Hi all, I've been watching this ebay seller for a while, and came across this on ebay the other day: Pam 177 Luminor Marina Titanium Manual Watch | eBay

In looking at the feedback and other things posted, they all seem to be replicas that this seller is posting. If you can help confirm this as a fake, then I'm sure this seller's been getting away with selling reps for a long time. Thanks for looking.


----------



## Genebe

notional said:


> Hi all, I've been watching this ebay seller for a while, and came across this on ebay the other day: Pam 177 Luminor Marina Titanium Manual Watch | eBay
> 
> In looking at the feedback and other things posted, they all seem to be replicas that this seller is posting. If you can help confirm this as a fake, then I'm sure this seller's been getting away with selling reps for a long time. Thanks for looking.


Starting bid of $499, no boxes or papers but only worn 3-4 times, seller claims that he got it as a gift & it's just too big so he's selling it, and NO RETURNS!!
Plus, looking at seller's history, and you can see he sold a "New Luminor Daylight Chronograph" on 01/06/2014 that he also received as a gift, also with no boxes, papers or returns. This guy must have some really great friends! Imagine the luck of getting 2 brand new Panerais for gifts! Of course, the first thing anyone would do is to throw away all the boxes & papers and then sell them on ebay for $500 each.

Does it even matter what the photos show?


----------



## Travelller

Genebe said:


> ...This guy must have some really great friends!


 :-d :-d :-d


----------



## notional

You would think after the first one his friends would know that a 44mm is too big for him (same description for both sales)

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## vdub007

wrong incabloc shape. it's a fake 100% sure


----------



## jkeur

Panerai Luminor GMT Pam 88 44mm M Series Mint Condition 845960004084 | eBayHi - this is my 1st post, so forgive me if this is a brutal question. Is this a real 88?

I live in Rochester, NY... so I haven't ever had the opportunity to see a genuine 88 in real life, please help.

Jeff


----------



## jkeur

Panerai Luminor GMT Pam 88 44mm M Series Mint Condition 845960004084 | eBay

How about this one... I live in Rochester, NY so I don't have the opportunity to see one in real life.

Thanks!

Jeff


----------



## shnjb

Post pics if you want people to look at your watches.


----------



## jkeur

shnjb said:


> Post pics if you want people to look at your watches.


Sorry


----------



## jkeur




----------



## shnjb

That's a tough one.
A closed caseback panerai is very difficult to authenticate. I would wait for a very skilled expert or authenticate at a boutique


----------



## jkeur

Good to know... Based on some of the previous posts I thought it would be obvious to everyone but me. Sorry I'm such a noob.

Thanks for your input.


----------



## Genebe

shnjb said:


> That's a tough one.
> A closed caseback panerai is very difficult to authenticate. I would wait for a very skilled expert or authenticate at a boutique


Agreed, and if I was putting money on it, that's the only way I'd feel confident.

But it looks pretty good to me.


----------



## tokijon

Hi I am new to this forum but a avid reader. I just recently purchased a second hand pam 90 and I love it. But with all second hand items I am kind of paronoid. I dont want to be like most newbies and post pictures and ask the veterans to verify, but I would like to ask where can I go to check my piece out and also get serviced. I live in San Jose, Ca. I google (ad) in my area and ch preimer poped up. Is this a good place to bring my watch in to get looked at and serviced? Would love to get any feed back.

jon


----------



## eleven86

Hi all,

I've been looking for a PAM to add to my collection and have now been offered one which I'm very interested in buying. 
It's a private seller and he claims to have all the papers, however, I know that our chinese friends are getting better and better in faking not only the watches but also everything that comes along with them. Also the price is much lower than the current market value.
The pictures are not the best, but maybe you can see something obviously wrong





















Thanks for your help


----------



## Synequano

That 321 looks legit to me..let's wait for the others to respond...


----------



## cmdrcool

I inherited this watch and have no idea if its real. can someone please help me out?


----------



## shnjb

cmdrcool said:


> I inherited this watch and have no idea if its real. can someone please help me out?
> View attachment 1369011
> View attachment 1369012


It's unlikely to be real...
But if you really inherited it, maybe you can debadge it and keep it.


----------



## Travelller

cmdrcool said:


> I inherited this watch and have no idea if its real. can someone please help me out?


It's not real (there are no precious-metal 8 Day Radiomirs with such a dial or solid caseback.).


----------



## Desidd

Someone in another watch group posted this Pam 372. He asked if it was authentic. I have never seen this layout on an original, however I was wondering if it's a special edition.


----------



## Travelller

Desidd said:


> Someone in another watch group posted this Pam 372...


OMG, they've finally started with in-house... :roll::-( Fortunately it is so far from the original... we still have a few years before it's starts to get scary-real like the 6497s... :think:


----------



## shnjb

Desidd said:


> View attachment 1373900
> 
> Someone in another watch group posted this Pam 372. He asked if it was authentic. I have never seen this layout on an original, however I was wondering if it's a special edition.


Haha it's fake


----------



## Desidd

Wow that was quick. I didn't think it was genuine. What was the biggest tell? Now to decide if I should break him the bad news. Something tells me he already knew though.


----------



## Travelller

Desidd said:


> What was the biggest tell?


identical twins...


----------



## shnjb

Travelller said:


> identical twins...


----------



## shnjb

shnjb said:


>


If you can't tell the difference you are just being lazy or blind.


----------



## Desidd

Thanks. The pics didn't load the first time from my iPad. It is plain as day now.


----------



## brio

Panerai Luminor Marina Pam 104 44mm Large Black Automatic Stainless Steel Watch 845960004343 | eBay
Just purchased this off ebay, looks legit, triple boxed and well documented. only concern is there is no panerai logo on the back, before the fish or in the middle. does it look right?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Travelller

brio said:


> ...only concern is there is no panerai logo on the back, before the fish or in the middle...


No worries, OP added this to later models (my "H" 217 also has no OP logo on the case). I'm not a 104 expert but from what I can see in your and the seller's photos, congratulations on your new 104 are in order :-!


----------



## shnjb

brio said:


> Panerai Luminor Marina Pam 104 44mm Large Black Automatic Stainless Steel Watch 845960004343 | eBay
> Just purchased this off ebay, looks legit, triple boxed and well documented. only concern is there is no panerai logo on the back, before the fish or in the middle. does it look right?
> Thanks in advance.


Is it possible to tell with 100% certainty without taking the back off?


----------



## Travelller

shnjb said:


> Is it possible to tell with 100% certainty without taking the back off?


_Really ...?_
If you're going to make the poor fellow nervous, then _do it right_, at least. The only way to be 100% sure is to send it to your nearest Richemont Service Center. If it's fake it will be destroyed.

Everything else, particularly with PAMs using ETA-based movements, will not provide you with 100% certainty. Even "buying the seller" isn't going to make it 100% _(but a hell of a lot better than buying it from some non-verified / untrusted source)._


----------



## brio

Thank you guys, I looked up the AD and everything seems 100% legit. I appreciate the quick response and help!


----------



## Entre425

Opinions on this please guys:


































Thanks


----------



## Synequano

^ Whoa!!! Everything looks wrong there...


----------



## shnjb

When the font is wrong on the box I feel like you should be able to use your eyes.
Or you're just trolling.


----------



## madgeman

Hi there 

i've wanted a Radiomir for 10 years, and am in a position to get one, but the price new is prohibitive. This one:

GENUINE PANERAI Radiomir Black Seal PAM 183 no 320 of 1500 purchased new 2008 | eBay

doesn't have papers, which I know is a red flag to some, but I was wondering if there's any way of reducing doubt? Serial # check or similar?

Any help much appreciated ​


----------



## Travelller

madgeman said:


> ...doesn't have papers, which I know is a red flag to some...


ebay + no papers = not with a ten-foot pole...


----------



## shnjb

madgeman said:


> Hi there
> 
> i've wanted a Radiomir for 10 years, and am in a position to get one, but the price new is prohibitive. This one:
> 
> GENUINE PANERAI Radiomir Black Seal PAM 183 no 320 of 1500 purchased new 2008 | eBay
> 
> doesn't have papers, which I know is a red flag to some, but I was wondering if there's any way of reducing doubt? Serial # check or similar?
> 
> Any help much appreciated ​


The pictures are of a genuine watch 
You can tell from the movement picture.

Whether they will ship you that watch and not another and whether you will be able to tell when you have the watch in hand is another story.


----------



## madgeman

Thanks (i think)


----------



## robisan

@Entre425

Its so fake it hurts my eyes.


----------



## brandan003

Real or Fake: PANERAI PAM 188 LUMINOR DAYLIGHT
I just bought this watch from neighbor. I'm pretty sure it's real. The weight seems legit as well. Opinions?
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8867/n99f.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4077/vhg9.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6315/j2cq.jpg
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3218/9ayc.jpg


----------



## shnjb

brandan003 said:


> Real or Fake: PANERAI PAM 188 LUMINOR DAYLIGHT
> I just bought this watch from neighbor. I'm pretty sure it's real. The weight seems legit as well. Opinions?
> http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8867/n99f.jpg
> http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4077/vhg9.jpg
> http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6315/j2cq.jpg
> http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3218/9ayc.jpg


Crown wheel seems a little different maybe....

Actually I just googled the 188 rep and it is so close to the real one that I cannot at all distinguish whether the one you have is real or not.
I would only be sure after having panerai verify it.


----------



## handwound

What do you suppose is wrong with the crown? The watch looks good to me....


----------



## shnjb

handwound said:


> What do you suppose is wrong with the crown? The watch looks good to me....


That was my first thought.

But after looking at how indistinguishable the fakes were side by side to a real, I'm not sure what the differences are for this model.


----------



## Jibby8

Hey guys , i have this Panerai watch that was given to me by my uncle without the box/papers and i need help identifying whether its real or replica.. i've always thought it was real until my friend told me its a fake because of the color of the Font on the dial and also because of the wobbly lever. Im not exactly sure what model is it but i think its a pam127?


----------



## Synequano

That 127 looks weird IMO...I think it's fake....


----------



## Travelller

The oddest thing for me is the domed-crystal's aberration - or more to the point, the lack thereof... :think:
The "PANERAI" stamping on the platines isn't straight... :think: but maybe it's just the camera / photo, can't be sure...
The SN# (BB 106GS59) - can't recall seeing one that wasn't pure numeric...








The location / thickness of the crown looks off...








Lastly, the font "looks" good, but there's no guarantee.

A wobbly lever may be just a sign of wear and judging by the looks of the case, your uncle used it often enough









Now for the hard questions... did he give you the watch as a gift, or did you bequeath it...? A 127's a 20K watch...


----------



## Synequano

Travelller,my biggest concern is the lug and screw...I recall real 127 has the normal screw and lugs....the distance between screw hole is not that far from the lugs
You have 217,you should know better than me....I'm still drooling over 368.....


----------



## shnjb

Jibby8 said:


> Hey guys , i have this Panerai watch that was given to me by my uncle without the box/papers and i need help identifying whether its real or replica.. i've always thought it was real until my friend told me its a fake because of the color of the Font on the dial and also because of the wobbly lever. Im not exactly sure what model is it but i think its a pam127? Thanks very much
> 
> View attachment 1405808
> View attachment 1405811
> View attachment 1405812


100% fake.
Many many movement flaws


----------



## Jibby8

Travelller said:


> The oddest thing for me is the domed-crystal's aberration - or more to the point, the lack thereof... :think:
> The "PANERAI" stamping on the platines isn't straight... :think: but maybe it's just the camera / photo, can't be sure...
> The SN# (BB 106GS59) - can't recall seeing one that wasn't pure numeric... :think:
> The location / thickness of the crown looks off... :think:
> Lastly, the font "looks" good, but there's no guarantee.
> 
> A wobbly lever may be just a sign of wear and judging by the looks of the case, your uncle used it often enough ;-)
> 
> Now for the hard questions... did he give you the watch as a gift, or did you bequeath it...? A 127's a 20K watch...


It was a birthday gift .. anyway thank you guys so much for taking the time to have a look , appreciate it.


----------



## tokijon

Hi guys I was wondering if any of you guys dealt with a third party watch band company called "watch-band -source" They seem to be selling "oem" Straps and deployment for below cost. They guarantee authenticity but im still skeptical. I just wanted to know if anyone has dealt with them and what kind of quality should I expect.


----------



## Travelller

Only ADs are authorized to sell OP accessories and (officially) at retail price only. Everything else is fake. Please consider one of the many excellent custom strap makers instead.


----------



## tokijon

Well I guess that answers my question. That totally sucks but I guess I will live with it. Thank you for your response jon


----------



## Travelller

Jon, I noticed you posted the same question over at the straps thread. Maybe there's a chance these guys are some kind of Grey dealers... ? :think: Who knows, let's see if anyone over in the other thread responds favorably. OEM straps are astronomically priced :-( so I'm all for a discount ;-)


----------



## tokijon

Sorry abouth that, I wasnt trying to spam the boards. I wasnt quite sure where to post appropriately.


----------



## denny317

Guys - can you help me out here? Looking to buy a PAM 104 and want to know your thoughts on if this is real or not:

Panerai Luminor Marina - PAM 104 - K Serial - Automatic Watch

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/Denny317/Mobile Uploads/image_zps4640a22b.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/Denny317/Mobile Uploads/image_zpseddd1178.jpg


----------



## aft

tokijon said:


> Hi guys I was wondering if any of you guys dealt with a third party watch band company called "watch-band -source" They seem to be selling "oem" Straps and deployment for below cost. They guarantee authenticity but im still skeptical. I just wanted to know if anyone has dealt with them and what kind of quality should I expect.


RUN!!!! 100% Verified SCAM. Those are NOT real straps, I contacted Richemont and Ebay trying to get them shut down but no luck so far!


----------



## Edvinas4

Hello guys,
Is this real thing?
Panerai Luminor Marina PAM00111 PAM 111 SLIGHTLY USED WITH BOX!!! | eBay
Thanks!


----------



## ILOVETIME

batter up! I believe this is a panerai 111. If I'm not mistaken, the numbers on the case and the card don't match? The 'tag' thing matches the watch though. I'm pretty good with omegas but never really did much with Panerais. What do you guys think?


----------



## shnjb

ILOVETIME said:


> batter up! I believe this is a panerai 111. If I'm not mistaken, the numbers on the case and the card don't match? The 'tag' thing matches the watch though. I'm pretty good with omegas but never really did much with Panerais. What do you guys think?
> 
> View attachment 1416956
> 
> 
> View attachment 1416957
> 
> 
> View attachment 1416960
> 
> 
> View attachment 1416962
> 
> 
> View attachment 1416963
> 
> 
> View attachment 1416964
> 
> 
> View attachment 1416966
> 
> 
> View attachment 1416968
> 
> 
> View attachment 1416969
> 
> 
> View attachment 1416959


This is a real movement for sure


----------



## micpelli

guys can you help me out...

Panerai Luminor "La Bomba" limited edition "F" series


----------



## handwound

micpelli said:


> guys can you help me out...
> 
> Panerai Luminor "La Bomba" limited edition "F" series...


Looks legit to me, mic. Good luck.


----------



## Synequano

Just quick question since I'm simply too lazy to google...la bomba is the nickname of 64C right? Not 87F shown...I may have the wrong info so feel free to correct me....


----------



## korneevy

Looks good to me. Make sure all numbers in the paperwork check out against the watch, and I'd also insist on opening the caseback to compare the movement number with the COSC, you can never be too cautious these days.


----------



## micpelli

Syequano.. the 1st series of La Bomba was the 64 so yes you are correct.. they made 500 models.. they then came out with the 87 (blue face) which they made 2000 models


----------



## kmschaer

Real Radiomir

Came across a Panerai for sale and have some photos and the seller has a good story about buying this at the Piazza Giovanni Botique in Florenece. He says he moved and cannot find the box and papers. Says it was purchased 2 years ago. It has a 7750-P1 movement. Is it real?


----------



## shnjb

kmschaer said:


> Real Radiomir
> 
> Came across a Panerai for sale and have some photos and the seller has a good story about buying this at the Piazza Giovanni Botique in Florenece. He says he moved and cannot find the box and papers. Says it was purchased 2 years ago. It has a 7750-P1 movement. Is it real?
> View attachment 1445213
> View attachment 1445215


I would be shocked if this is a real panerai.


----------



## m630

kmschaer said:


> Real Radiomir
> 
> Came across a Panerai for sale and have some photos and the seller has a good story about buying this at the Piazza Giovanni Botique in Florenece. He says he moved and cannot find the box and papers. Says it was purchased 2 years ago. It has a 7750-P1 movement. Is it real?
> View attachment 1445213
> View attachment 1445215


This is beyond *FAKE*, terrible attempt I might add. It was not purchased 2 years ago as the face it's trying to copy only came out last year. Amazing fail. Run run run!


----------



## m630

micpelli said:


> guys can you help me out...
> 
> Panerai Luminor "La Bomba" limited edition "F" series
> 
> View attachment 1441007
> View attachment 1441008
> View attachment 1441009
> View attachment 1441010
> View attachment 1441011
> View attachment 1441012


hi, hate to disagree with the others, but I'd think this is a fake.....


----------



## kmschaer

m630 said:


> This is beyond *FAKE*, terrible attempt I might add. It was not purchased 2 years ago as the face it's trying to copy only came out last year. Amazing fail. Run run run!


So after further review. It look likes this is not a 7750 movement of any sort (maybe a 2824) and the face is a Radiomir Oro Rosso attempt with a Luminor case with crown guard. I was wondering if I was missing a special edition model that was hard to find. Obviously not.

Thanks


----------



## micpelli

hi.. send you a PM, let me know why you think that is the case


----------



## mundogrande

Hey guys, planning on buying a watch and want to run the pics by you guys. No red flags so far from the seller and seems to check out, but just wanted to see what you guys thought.




































PAM 111 K series


----------



## shnjb

mundogrande said:


> Hey guys, planning on buying a watch and want to run the pics by you guys. No red flags so far from the seller and seems to check out, but just wanted to see what you guys thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PAM 111 K series


It's genuine panerai


----------



## tg777

Thanks!


----------



## shnjb

Obviously fake


----------



## tg777

shnjb said:


> Obviously fake


Thanks shnjb. Could you elaborate? I just want to reiterate that she isn't sure of the model she bought... just saw it, liked it and bought it. It was me who deduced that she was probably trying to buy a PAM 386 - which it obviously isn't. I'm wondering though, is there another model this could be besides the 386?


----------



## m630

tg777 said:


> Thanks shnjb. Could you elaborate? I just want to reiterate that she isn't sure of the model she bought... just saw it, liked it and bought it. It was me who deduced that she was probably trying to buy a PAM 386 - which it obviously isn't. I'm wondering though, is there another model this could be besides the 386?


A girlfriend saw it, liked it and paid $12k for a watch you didn't ask for and that she wasn't sure which model it was that she saw on the street??? This is 100% fake and I can't see how she got it elementsintime, they are all over them place and wouldn't think they would offer such an obvious fake model. There is no such model that this could be, it's just not a model offered.


----------



## shnjb

tg777 said:


> Thanks shnjb. Could you elaborate? I just want to reiterate that she isn't sure of the model she bought... just saw it, liked it and bought it. It was me who deduced that she was probably trying to buy a PAM 386 - which it obviously isn't. I'm wondering though, is there another model this could be besides the 386?


Just google it. 
It's not even close.


----------



## Tongdaeng

Hi everyone,

I am new to Panerai and would like your advice on the authenticity of a PAM 210 I am considering purchasing. The seller seems to be a reputable 2nd hand watch dealer, but I've heard that there base models like the PAM 210 are easily faked, and it could be possible even the seller may not know the full history of the watch. The watch has no box and papers - I know those can sometimes be faked too, but without these I am even less certain so I figure it is best to check with those who know these watches much better than I do. Thank you in advance for any advice you have.


----------



## m630

Tongdaeng said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am new to Panerai and would like your advice on the authenticity of a PAM 210 I am considering purchasing. The seller seems to be a reputable 2nd hand watch dealer, but I've heard that there base models like the PAM 210 are easily faked, and it could be possible even the seller may not know the full history of the watch. The watch has no box and papers - I know those can sometimes be faked too, but without these I am even less certain so I figure it is best to check with those who know these watches much better than I do. Thank you in advance for any advice you have.
> View attachment 1450813
> View attachment 1450814
> View attachment 1450815
> View attachment 1450816
> View attachment 1450817
> View attachment 1450818


HI, cant see the back pix too good. Above the wording 'Officine', is there serial numbers denoting the piece as part of the run, ie the (year) letter / the piece number of the run, for ex F001/1000, etc. I dont see that but perhaps you've cut it out. Is that found somewhere on the watch?


----------



## Tongdaeng

I see what you mean - it appears to be missing a run/series for this watch... I did not cut this out of the pic myself, but perhaps the seller did before sending to me. I'll ask about it and see if they have some info. Otherwise from what you see does it seem to check out? Thank you for the help!


----------



## m630

Tongdaeng said:


> I see what you mean - it appears to be missing a run/series for this watch... I did not cut this out of the pic myself, but perhaps the seller did before sending to me. I'll ask about it and see if they have some info. Otherwise from what you see does it seem to check out? Thank you for the help!


OK. Check on that as that would be the first area, and undestand that each corner has some numbers, I can see the water resistance but nothing else, just confirm that at the same time. The dial looks clean, im not 100% up on this movement but it looks comparable to others ive viewed. The other thing you should confirm is on the placement of the naming on the movement. In the pix shown, it appears that Officine Panerai is near the edge and that the lettering is almost cutoff. That should not be the case, it may be the angle of the pix, but I would look close at this as well since there would not be any letters cutoff or even nearly cutoff on the naming if its a real movement.


----------



## shnjb

It's a real panerai movement.


----------



## Tongdaeng

I checked with the seller and he said that there is no engraving in the lower right near the lug screw indicating a run or series on the PAM 210. Should every watch have this or could there be exceptions? Would this indicate it is fake or that the series had been polished off? Thank you!


----------



## m630

Impossible, imo, for it to not have a letter code and individual unit number. Just google pam210 and look at the images that come up. All that ive seen have a unique identifier as do all Pams


----------



## Travelller

Tongdaeng said:


> I checked with the seller and he said that there is no engraving in the lower right near the lug screw indicating a run or series on the PAM 210. Should every watch have this or could there be exceptions? Would this indicate it is fake or that the series had been polished off? Thank you!


Every PAM has a serial # AND series #. No one in their right mind would polish these off. You do not want this watch.


----------



## Tongdaeng

Thank you very much for the advice - greatly appreciated!


----------



## shnjb

Well this one is a mystery.
So it looks to have a genuine movement but a fake case?

I would've thought the picture was photoshopped.


----------



## Martin18

A friend on mine just sent this photo to me. Is it possible to tell if this is Gen or fake just by this shot of the face?










Cheers, Martijn.


----------



## shnjb

Martin18 said:


> A friend on mine just sent this photo to me. Is it possible to tell if this is Gen or fake just by this shot of the face?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers, Martijn.


That would be rather difficult to tell from just that picture


----------



## Martin18

shnjb said:


> That would be rather difficult to tell from just that picture


Thats a shame. I know some of you guys are able to tell if a Rolex is fake or real just by a face photo. 
But well, I will try to get some more shots when I can hold it in my hands


----------



## Synequano

The easiest way to differentiate real vs fake 372 is by the P3000 movt,the front part (dial,case,hands,crystal) are easy to fake...


----------



## shnjb

Martin18 said:


> Thats a shame. I know some of you guys are able to tell if a Rolex is fake or real just by a face photo.
> But well, I will try to get some more shots when I can hold it in my hands


Yeah the front is almost impossible.
Try to get some good shots of the back.


----------



## David Church

Can you just confirm what I believe before I start messing with it myself.
i bought this on the understanding it was a replica. 
The £20 price and the inconsistent dial didn't give me any idea that it wasn't just a Chinese replica.
it was advertised as faulty and needing a service and as I'm trying to learn about watch maintenance as a hobby so I though I could dig in happily to have a go getting it running if possible but not worried too much if I trashed it in the process.
i expected a cheap old Chinese hand wind movement inside but found this instead.








Which looks much better than I'd expected. But to me the quality just isn't right. I have a genuine TagHeuer Carrera 6 so I know what a good watch looks like.
At first look there's discolouration (rust?) on the screws and the machining on the case ain't great.
The adjustment screw on the swan neck is broken, I expect it's somewhere inside and a real one wouldn't snap surely. The markings look too dark and have flaked in places, I actually found some flakes of paint in the movement.
I've convinced myself it's a replica but, the doubt is there.
I just want my mind put to rest before I start poking my fat fingers into what 'might' be a real Pam.


----------



## vdub007

sorry to burst your bubble but this is indeed a cheap asian 6497 movement.

poor finish & quality. to spend your time on this nutcracker


----------



## David Church

Actually that's probably what I wanted to hear. 
I would Hate to think that Panerai could sell something that is made this poorly and charge £1000s
Now I can happily strip this down and see if I can get it run at within a few minutes a day rather than a few minutes an hour.


----------



## Arrow269

Just stumbled on this thread and glad I did. Was browsing an estate sale and found this Pam000. Looks pretty solid, but without any B&P I'm not going to take a chance. Luckily for me, the seller agreed for me to take pics and put the watch on hold for me. Casing looks good - no clue about the movement. Appreciate your help.


----------



## shnjb

Arrow269 said:


> Just stumbled on this thread and glad I did. Was browsing an estate sale and found this Pam000. Looks pretty solid, but without any B&P I'm not going to take a chance. Luckily for me, the seller agreed for me to take pics and put the watch on hold for me. Casing looks good - no clue about the movement. Appreciate your help.
> View attachment 1497109
> View attachment 1497111
> View attachment 1497113
> View attachment 1497114
> View attachment 1497115
> View attachment 1497116


Fakey fakd


----------



## Arrow269

shnjb said:


> Fakey fakd


Thanks for getting back. I appreciate it! Don't want to end up purchasing a rep. What gives it away? Movement?


----------



## bosyd

Is this watch fake?

Panerai Officine Luminor Base 44mm Titanium PAM00176 | eBay


----------



## vdub007

yes and a terrible one!

stay away from this


----------



## balzebub

I am a total noob and never owned a watch from this brand before. Now some one I know but not tight with is dumping all of his watches and this is one of them








All I have is this wrist shot now. Is this the real deal and what model is this?

Sent from my Hongmi


----------



## El Cheapacabra

...


----------



## Kid_A

this is brutal thread. kinda "back to reality" thread. thanks for this. lets be careful when buying PAMs on the aftermarket...


----------



## joecartoon22

some guy tried to pay me a debt with what looks like a fake 104.


----------



## shnjb

joecartoon22 said:


> View attachment 1504400
> View attachment 1504401
> View attachment 1504402
> View attachment 1504403
> 
> 
> some guy tried to pay me a debt with what looks like a fake 104.


Lol seriously?

Almost 90% or higher have been fake in this thread.

Unless you have reason to believe it's real, just assume your piece of .... 200 dollar watch was made in china.


----------



## lippstuh

Hi guys I am new here this is indeed my first post. Long story short so my sister in law got this panerai Pam090 (I think) from her husband who found this in his drawer(Which his brother left there as he has forgotten about it) but for pretty expensive watch is hard to forget therefore she is suspicious if its real or not. I been lurking on this forum too see if I could find some details on the Pam090 (not much about) and "found" this this thread. One thing that I'm suspicious of is the pin on the knob which isn't flushed please advise.


----------



## Travelller

lippstuh said:


> ... so my sister in law got this panerai Pam090 (I think) from her husband who found this in his drawer(Which his brother left there as he has forgotten about it...


Seriously?!!o|


----------



## lippstuh

Yes I am serious. Which also kind of suspicious but he has a lot watches could be an reason.


----------



## ShaggyDog

Found it in a drawer lol. Of course it's fake. You've probably got more chance of finding Elvis Presley hiding in a wardrobe than just 'finding' a genuine Panerai tossed into a random drawer and then forgotten about.


----------



## shnjb

ShaggyDog said:


> Found it in a drawer lol. Of course it's fake. You've probably got more chance of finding Elvis Presley hiding in a wardrobe than just 'finding' a genuine Panerai tossed into a random drawer and then forgotten about.


Well unless his watch collection is worth more than 300-500k USD.


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## lippstuh

shnjb said:


> Well unless his watch collection is worth more than 300-500k USD.


Ok lol but you never know, I will tell her not to wear.


----------



## shnjb

lippstuh said:


> Ok lol but you never know, I will tell her not to wear.


Unless he is a 100million+ guy with a lot of watches that cost more than 30k, he's not going to forget about a panerai in his drawer.


----------



## Travelller

lippstuh said:


> Yes I am serious...


Here's an idea... have _your_ sister-in-law tell _her _husband to call _his_ brother and inform _him_ that _he _forgot _his _watch at _their _place...
... :rodekaart


----------



## korneevy

lippstuh said:


> my sister in law got this panerai Pam090 (I think) from her husband who found this in his drawer(Which his brother left there as he has forgotten about it) but for pretty expensive watch is hard to forget therefore she is suspicious if its real or not


 This has got too be the most elaborate take on "this watch was given to me by my rich uncle, sorry no papers or box" classic. Made my day, thanks for that.


----------



## shnjb

korneevy said:


> This has got too be the most elaborate take on "this watch was given to me by my rich uncle, sorry no papers or box" classic. Made my day, thanks for that.


The more elaborate the story, the less likely it becomes..


----------



## chas1133

shnjb said:


> The more elaborate the story, the less likely it becomes..


:roll:
The roll is for the op..


----------



## shnjb

Travelller said:


> Here's an idea... have _your_ sister-in-law tell _her _husband to call _his_ brother and inform _him_ that _he _forgot _his _watch at _their _place...
> ... :rodekaart


Perfect comedic gold


----------



## Satansfist

You know it would be a lot more helpful if you guys gave reasons as to why you think a watch is a fake instead of just posting "It's fake!". You may be the biggest PAM expert out there but this is the internet, we have no way to judge if your opinion is worthwhile or not.


----------



## m630

Satansfist said:


> You know it would be a lot more helpful if you guys gave reasons as to why you think a watch is a fake instead of just posting "It's fake!". You may be the biggest PAM expert out there but this is the internet, we have no way to judge if your opinion is worthwhile or not.


we tend to point out the obvious but often we know that there are many trolls that are in fact trying to hawk their fakes so we will not give them the info they are really looking for, which is that their fake is real enough to pass as legit. The simple fact is, in most posts I've seen, its pure laziness by the poster as to whether the watch is potentially real or not. If they did a simple search for an hour of the many sites dedicated to PAMs, they can quickly deduce what a real model should look like and the key attributes. We've even seen examples where the spelling is wrong on the watch but they still ask, blatant fakes and still they ask if its real. Bottom line, if its a good deal that is too good to be true, its fake 99.9999999% of the time. These watches are in high demand and the market is firm, there are no deals (unless you make a relationship with a dealer ofcourse and then you wouldnt be asking us whether its real or not). All these wild stories about people forgetting PAMs in their draw or their brothers-sisters, mothers uncle blah blah blah is just pure classis BS. Ah yes, I left my PAM XXX worth $$$$$ in a shoebox! It fun as heck to read though! If someone would just take the time to do their homework, they wouldnt need to come here to ask. Yes there exceptions and really good fakes that will fool just about any of us, but this is the general rule. Go see the watch, touch it, feel it, wear it ,you'll probably know what is real or fake by that simple actions.


----------



## shnjb

The left it in a drawer story connected with me because I actually hide my nicest watches in random places so that if my house gets robbed, they don't find it first in a jewelry or watch box.


----------



## Justin Stacks

Any thoughts on this 210?

It is very hard to see the Serial Letter. Is this common?


----------



## shnjb

Justin Stacks said:


> Any thoughts on this 210?
> 
> It is very hard to see the Serial Letter. Is this common?
> 
> View attachment 1542579
> 
> 
> View attachment 1542580
> 
> 
> View attachment 1542581
> 
> 
> View attachment 1542582
> 
> 
> View attachment 1542583
> 
> 
> View attachment 1542584
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> 
> View attachment 1542585
> 
> 
> View attachment 1542586
> 
> 
> View attachment 1542588


Real.
Movement seems legit


----------



## Justin Stacks

shnjb said:


> Real.
> Movement seems legit


Thanks Shnjb.

Any comments on the serial number? The letter (I) seems very faint which scares me off a little. Is this common, or does it look correct?

Thanks for the reply!


----------



## Eyenigma

Can someone give me a second set of eyes on this listing: *FSOT: Panerai Pam 177 O Series Complete/Like New Unpolished Set - Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum*
Everything looks in order, and from what I can tell it's the real deal. Just hoping to get confirmation from those more familiar with the brand.


----------



## macotono

Guys help with this PAM 164 real? 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tallboyr

Guys, After years of trying to shy away from Panerai , i must admit that the bug never sort of lets go. Every few months i am tempted to start relooking at the perfect Panerai to add to my small collection (which in reality i am building for my son - Thats what i tell my wife!!!). So, i found this nice guy trying to sell a PAM 543 Abu Dhabi limited edition claiming to be just 5 months old. He is yet to send me snaps of the paper work but here are pictures for your reference. The slightly odd position of the case back was concerning but the guy seems legit to me. I am not sure about the watch though. Can you please have a look and advise me? Also, he said he has two more straps and all th documentation. I am also thinking between this and a Hublot and have to bite the bullet by Saturday, 18th. thanks for helping me out. So here are the snaps. Peace.

Also, i know we are not supposed to discuss pricing but any pointers as to where i can get a good indicator on this watch "It is a Abu Dhabi Limited Edition" would be great. The movement is manual and i dount will be different to the base models.
























Thanks.


----------



## vdub007

hard to tell from these pics.

it would need some close up shots of the dial and caseback


----------



## Tallboyr

vdub007 said:


> hard to tell from these pics.
> 
> it would need some close up shots of the dial and caseback


Thanks vdub007, I have managed to obtain this picture of the dial from the owner. He will send me further pictures of the watch and the paper work tomorrow. Does this picture provide enough substance to take a view on the watch? thanks for helping me out


----------



## Tallboyr

Hi Guys, Managed to obtain all the correct pictures of the watch, the box and the paper work from the seller. Pleas review and lead me on the correct path. I depend on you to make the right choice. Thanks so much...





















































Tallboyr said:


> Guys, After years of trying to shy away from Panerai , i must admit that the bug never sort of lets go. Every few months i am tempted to start relooking at the perfect Panerai to add to my small collection (which in reality i am building for my son - Thats what i tell my wife!!!). So, i found this nice guy trying to sell a PAM 543 Abu Dhabi limited edition claiming to be just 5 months old. He is yet to send me snaps of the paper work but here are pictures for your reference. The slightly odd position of the case back was concerning but the guy seems legit to me. I am not sure about the watch though. Can you please have a look and advise me? Also, he said he has two more straps and all th documentation. I am also thinking between this and a Hublot and have to bite the bullet by Saturday, 18th. thanks for helping me out. So here are the snaps. Peace.
> 
> Also, i know we are not supposed to discuss pricing but any pointers as to where i can get a good indicator on this watch "It is a Abu Dhabi Limited Edition" would be great. The movement is manual and i doubt will be different to the base models.
> View attachment 1563731
> View attachment 1563732
> View attachment 1563733
> View attachment 1563734
> Thanks.


----------



## MrBuzzsaw

nevermind


----------



## Locomotivebreath

Satansfist said:


> You know it would be a lot more helpful if you guys gave reasons as to why you think a watch is a fake instead of just posting "It's fake!". You may be the biggest PAM expert out there but this is the internet, we have no way to judge if your opinion is worthwhile or not.


"Help us make better replicas, please."


----------



## ilitig8

Locomotivebreath said:


> "Help us make better replicas, please."


You see this all the time but honestly it is bunk. The counterfeiters have eyes and also have huge numbers of people on forums devoted to fakes that know far more than we do. Sharing specifics on how to recognize a fake on WUS really only helps people not get conned. Most of the time when there is no information given as to why a watch is not real the fake is so horrible there is more wrong than right.


----------



## secdwatch

Yes，It's about time.Thank you.


----------



## Tallboyr

I have finally managed to identify the genuineness of the watch myself. Surprised nobody responded to my query even after repeated requests and private messages. I would not do that in the real world.


----------



## omegagmt

macotono said:


> Guys help with this PAM 164 real?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry buddy. Fake! The cannon pin is too deep and the crown guard pin is not flush.


----------



## macotono

omegagmt said:


> Sorry buddy. Fake! The cannon pin is too deep and the crown guard pin is not flush.


Thanks! So I won it on eBay, and called to make sure that the purchase was covered by their buyers protection, but we didn't get too far cause the listing was removed before I could make payment! Lucky me I guess. Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## watchVT

Tallboyr said:


> I have finally managed to identify the genuineness of the watch myself. Surprised nobody responded to my query even after repeated requests and private messages. I would not do that in the real world.


No one owes you an authentication. If you were able to do research and come up with a conclusion, good for you.


----------



## Tallboyr

...


----------



## Tallboyr

watchVT said:


> No one owes you an authentication. If you were able to do research and come up with a conclusion, good for you.


And why do you feel so bad about it as if I wanted you to respond?


----------



## fatherjacob

asking for some advise about authenticity , this just appears to be one of the easier higher end watches to duplicate ?

Are there any obvious tell tale signs?

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag257/vpapaiacovou/asaa_zps2fa3e1e1.jpg

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag257/vpapaiacovou/_57_zpsaace2aca.jpg


----------



## shnjb

fatherjacob said:


> asking for some advise about authenticity , this just appears to be one of the easier higher end watches to duplicate ?
> 
> Are there any obvious tell tale signs?
> 
> http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag257/vpapaiacovou/asaa_zps2fa3e1e1.jpg
> 
> http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag257/vpapaiacovou/_57_zpsaace2aca.jpg


real


----------



## fatherjacob

shnjb said:


> real


Thanks for that but how can you so certain ..please enlighten me


----------



## vdub007

not sure it's real, the cannon pin seems to be wonky.

it's easy to replace the chinese incabloc for a swiss one


----------



## shnjb

Crown guard and lever and swan neck, engraving everything seems real.
If the serial and paper match there's nothing to worry about.


----------



## shnjb

I think these are fake.

What do you guys think?


----------



## Tallboyr

shnjb said:


> I think these are fake.
> 
> What do you guys think?


I think you are right.


----------



## WG_John

I was hoping if you could help me with a little advice. Now, i found a nice looking Submersible PAM 024 online, and the seller shared a few pictures with me. It has all boxes and papers, but since the replicas became really good these days, i would rather ask you guys to help me with this one.

So, here are the pictures. What do you think, does it look good?

Thank you


----------



## fatherjacob

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag257/vpapaiacovou/DSC_0027_zpsadddbdf2.jpg

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag257/vpapaiacovou/DSC_0023_zps1fd92bed.jpg

just some follow up images to try and shed some light on the authenticity of the watch ..hope this helps .

least theres some genuine scratches


----------



## WG_John

WG_John said:


> I was hoping if you could help me with a little advice. Now, i found a nice looking Submersible PAM 024 online, and the seller shared a few pictures with me. It has all boxes and papers, but since the replicas became really good these days, i would rather ask you guys to help me with this one.
> 
> So, here are the pictures. What do you think, does it look good?
> 
> Thank you


Anyone? Really need your help


----------



## Tallboyr

WG_John said:


> Anyone? Really need your help


 looks legit to to me except the lever not fitted properly. Also would like to see inscription on the inside of the strap. What about paperwork


----------



## WG_John

Lever is ok, i have a few other pictures and on them is flush with a crown guard. Watch has full paperwork. Unfortunately i don't have a picture of the inner side of the strap


----------



## Locopoco

Hi, new to this forum so apologies if I am not posting correctly, I have seen a Panerai Luminor for sale. The back case states that it is 30m. I have not heard of a 30m water resistant luminor so am suspecting it is not a legitimate Panerai. Are there 30m models?


----------



## MikeCeee

*PAM 237: REAL OR FAKE?*

Hi could really use some assistance here, does this seem real or fake? I did buy through eBay, through paypal, with an Amex for extra protection. I asked for extra pictures, purchased from someone with 100% positive feedback, thought I had done my due diligence, but now doing a reverse image search I am wary. I would really appreciate input so I can act on this quickly if it is not genuine.

Have they gotten to the point where they can fake box/papers/tags/everything?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Tallboyr

*Re: PAM 237: REAL OR FAKE?*



MikeCeee said:


> Hi could really use some assistance here, does this seem real or fake? I did buy through eBay, through paypal, with an Amex for extra protection. I asked for extra pictures, purchased from someone with 100% positive feedback, thought I had done my due diligence, but now doing a reverse image search I am wary. I would really appreciate input so I can act on this quickly if it is not genuine.
> 
> Have they gotten to the point where they can fake box/papers/tags/everything?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


too difficult to make a judgement without looking at more pictures. I have a gut feel you may need to get a refund.


----------



## MikeCeee

*Re: PAM 237: REAL OR FAKE?*

Well, it is being overnighted, and I will have it tomorrow. I called eBay proactively and they assured me if the item is not authentic I will receive a full refund (and I have Amex to back me up as well  )

I will post more detailed pics once I receive, I will also be bringing it to an AD for verification. If I can't tell for sure will it be very clear once I open up the back? Is there anything bad that can happen from opening the back? I don't think they replicated the 237 movement exactly?

Thanks! Mike


----------



## MikeCeee

*Re: PAM 237: REAL OR FAKE?*

OK, here is a link to more detailed pictures! I appreciate your help:

http://imgur.com/a/qJ10V


----------



## l31011

Hello Everyone,

Long time lurker. First time posting. I have finally decided to get a pre-owned panerai pam 112 and came across this one here. Please let me know what you think: 














Thank you !


----------



## Nocaster

Hi,

is this real or fake? I have no idea.

Panerai Pam 347 N Series 3 Dayspower Reserve GMT 44 Mm | eBay


----------



## az1978

If anyone can shed some light on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Pam112 being sold by a local jewelry store. 

















They also list on ebay and have a 99% satisfaction rate over the course of the last decade with almost 1700 reviews and they seem to sell a lot of watches. They seem to check out, but you never know if they were sold a fake.
No box or papers is what makes me VERY nervous. 
If anyone has any insight that would be great!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## az1978

Anyone have any thoughts on this? 
Thank you to anyone who can help!


----------



## Travelller

l31011 said:


> ...pam 112 and came across this one here...


How about a little more info; does it come with box & papers? If so, photos? What year is it (ask them for the letter prefix in the series #) This setup, stamped plates and small crown-guard was only offered for two specific years...



az1978 said:


> Pam112 being sold by a local jewelry store...


No chance to be sure - buy the buyer. [EDIT] No paperwork? Pass!


----------



## Tallboyr

Travelller said:


> How about a little more info; does it come with box & papers? If so, photos? What year is it (ask them for the letter prefix in the series #) This setup, stamped plates and small crown-guard was only offered for two specific years...
> 
> No chance to be sure - buy the buyer. [EDIT] No paperwork? Pass!


Hold on, if you are sure about the seller and get the watch verified physically, I dont see a problem with not having paper work.


----------



## Will3020

az1978 said:


> If anyone can shed some light on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Pam112 being sold by a local jewelry store.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No box or papers is what makes me VERY nervous.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If I felt like that I would probably not purchase. Ask about their return policy? Have it authenticated at an Panerai AD. Good luck.


----------



## MIK3.4

Pam 111 real? About to pull the trigger. Waiting for additional close-ups, - Curently, these are the only photos I have. Will upload additional photos shortly. Triple box, warranty card and booklet (no tag, receipt, etc) N Series

Thank you so much!


----------



## vdub007

even with this card, this is a fake 111.

throw it in the garbage

the incabloc is incorrect


----------



## Wlover

The back looks legit though... Could be lighting. But the last photo looks off... Like the first 3 pics are real watch but last pic is another watch.



vdub007 said:


> even with this card, this is a fake 111.
> 
> throw it in the garbage
> 
> the incabloc is incorrect


----------



## az1978

Thoughts on this 177?

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SBD

Wlover said:


> The back looks legit though... Could be lighting. But the last photo looks off... Like the first 3 pics are real watch but last pic is another watch.


Vdub007 is correct...the incabloc has at least 2 errors compared to the real movement. Sorry.


----------



## SBD

az1978 said:


> Thoughts on this 177?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks legit to me


----------



## az1978

Great to hear since I bought it a few days ago...lol.

Papers/card matched the watch and from my research the movement/face looked correct so I thought I was pretty safe. Also the seller was legit and we met face to face.
Regardless, glad to hear one of the experts agreed with me.
Thank you! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## M500

Hi

Can anyone confirm if this is a genuine 112? I am no expert as I am looking to purchase my first Panerai.

My concerns are mainly with the movement as all other photos I have seen do not have the movement with the continuous PANERAI inscription and also the text on the case back seems to be a little out. I realize that the bracelet fitted to the watch is not Panerai (the seller has disclosed this).

Looking forward to your thoughts and comments.


----------



## Lwagner

Wanting to know if this Panerai I found is real?

TIA


----------



## dainese

Lwagner said:


> Wanting to know if this Panerai I found is real?
> 
> TIA
> View attachment 1640840
> View attachment 1640841
> View attachment 1640844
> 
> 
> View attachment 1640838


Lol

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## vdub007

Lwagner: yes and it's worth about 45 000$.

You're a lucky man to have found that 

Was it in a back alley of a certain chinatown?



M500, can you provide any clearer shots of the face and movement?

The outer box is already a good sign as i never saw them repped before


----------



## nyeh

Hi all,

Does this look real? I know the caseback photos are a bit blurry, so if anybody could point out stuff I should be looking out for when I inspect it in person, I'd be very grateful.

Panerai Pam 112 Nseries | Singapore Watch Mall | A Member of TheSGMall.com


----------



## ilitig8

Lwagner said:


> Wanting to know if this Panerai I found is real?


A VERY bad fake.


----------



## M500

Hi I haven't taken possession of the watch yet so these are the best shots of the movement and dial.


----------



## Jacob_glenn




----------



## Jacob_glenn

Jacob_glenn said:


>


Fake??


----------



## vdub007

You really need us to confirm??


This is clearly a REAL piece of junk!

Look like a dollar store toy

Why is it always a first time poster or very low post count that ask these questions??

Wanna try to pass off your junk as the real thing?


----------



## mfear

Just picked this up from a good forum member -- but you can never be too sure!

Has original cardboard box, black box, panerai box, papers, manual, COSC cert, warranty card [Fox's Gem Shop] with matching numbers. All of the serials and movement numbers match.


----------



## 2ndoaa

Help on this please..










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 2ndoaa

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## xriddle

Would appreciate some input on this 390 please. Band is from PAM 563. What I find odd is that the BB number on the warranty card doesn't match the back of the watch but the serial is on the card but in the wrong place. Here are some pics.

Pics:
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
http://imgur.com/CZaKy6L
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer
imgur: the simple image sharer

Thanks


----------



## shnjb

2ndoaa said:


> Oops added pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sorry my bad.
I made a mistake. I think it's real.


----------



## mfear

shnjb said:


> Fake


No explanation as to how you drew that conclusion?


----------



## xriddle

Bump please.



xriddle said:


> Would appreciate some input on this 390 please. Band is from PAM 563. What I find odd is that the BB number on the warranty card doesn't match the back of the watch but the serial is on the card but in the wrong place. Here are some pics.
> 
> Pics:
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> http://imgur.com/CZaKy6L
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Travelller

shnjb said:


> Fake


not so sure about your verdict, mvmt & quick-release button looks reasonable to me... :think:


----------



## Travelller

xriddle said:


> ...Here are some pics...


Sorry but most of us don't have the time of day to click on every individual link - please post the pics in-line using links to the actual images and not entire webpage...


----------



## Will3020

Phoney Baloney


----------



## xriddle

xriddle said:


> Would appreciate some input on this 390 please. Band is from PAM 563. What I find odd is that the BB number on the warranty card doesn't match the back of the watch but the serial is on the card but in the wrong place. Here are some pics.
> 
> Pics:
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> http://imgur.com/CZaKy6L
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> imgur: the simple image sharer
> 
> Thanks


Embedded Pics: Sorry about that! Higher quality from links.


----------



## mfear

mfear said:


> Just picked this up from a good forum member -- but Iyou can never be too sure!
> 
> Has original cardboard box, black box, panerai box, papers, manual, COSC cert, warranty card [Fox's Gem Shop] with matching numbers. All of the serials and movement numbers match.


Bump


----------



## 2ndoaa

shnjb said:


> Fake


Can I ask what are the factors/notables why is the unit fake? I am new to PAM so it is a learning for me. TIA!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 2ndoaa

other opinions, please? TIA



2ndoaa said:


> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## shnjb

mfear said:


> No explanation as to how you drew that conclusion?


Sorry my bad.
I made a mistake. I think it's real.


----------



## xriddle

xriddle said:


> Embedded Pics: Sorry about that! Higher quality from links.
> 
> View attachment 1648494
> View attachment 1648496
> View attachment 1648497
> View attachment 1648498
> View attachment 1648499
> View attachment 1648501
> View attachment 1648502
> View attachment 1648503
> View attachment 1648504
> View attachment 1648506
> View attachment 1648507
> View attachment 1648508


Bump TIA


----------



## mfear

Looks real to me


----------



## xriddle

mfear said:


> Looks real to me


What about the bb number on the case not not matching the card?


----------



## Travelller

xriddle said:


> View attachment 1648501
> View attachment 1648504





xriddle said:


> What about the bb number on the case not not matching the card?


Looks ok to me but I can't guarantee anything. Regarding the registration card, here's one possibility; the owner bought a 390, found something wrong with it, brought it back and got a replacement. Second option, the sales rep wrote the wrong # (maybe he was looking at several PAMs at the same time...). In both cases, I'm just surprised they didn't draw a line through the old/wrong #... :think: You can do what I did; send the photo of the card to the AD (on the card). In my case, they confirmed that the card was authentic |>


----------



## Travelller

2ndoaa said:


> other opinions, please? TIA


I'd say you're GTG |>


Travelller said:


> not so sure about your verdict, mvmt & quick-release button looks reasonable to me... :think:





shnjb said:


> Sorry my bad. I made a mistake. I think it's real.


----------



## xriddle

Travelller said:


> Looks ok to me but I can't guarantee anything. Regarding the registration card, here's one possibility; the owner bought a 390, found something wrong with it, brought it back and got a replacement. Second option, the sales rep wrote the wrong # (maybe he was looking at several PAMs at the same time...). In both cases, I'm just surprised they didn't draw a line through the old/wrong #... :think: You can do what I did; send the photo of the card to the AD (on the card). In my case, they confirmed that the card was authentic |>


Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.


----------



## 2ndoaa

Travelller said:


> I'd say you're GTG |>


Thanks for your comment!

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Tapatalk


----------



## xriddle

Travelller said:


> Looks ok to me but I can't guarantee anything. Regarding the registration card, here's one possibility; the owner bought a 390, found something wrong with it, brought it back and got a replacement. Second option, the sales rep wrote the wrong # (maybe he was looking at several PAMs at the same time...). In both cases, I'm just surprised they didn't draw a line through the old/wrong #... :think: You can do what I did; send the photo of the card to the AD (on the card). In my case, they confirmed that the card was authentic |>


UPDATE: Took your advice. I emailed the AD on the card and they said they don't and would never fill in the warranty card the way it is filled out and said that the warranty card is 100% fake and the watch was not sold by them. He wouldn't give any addition info on the watch since he said he cant validate via the pictures I provided.


----------



## ScreenKiller

Jacob_glenn said:


> Fake??


Very fake . Doesn't look like any Pam.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Travelller

xriddle said:


> UPDATE: Took your advice. I emailed the AD on the card and they said they don't and would never fill in the warranty card the way it is filled out and said that the warranty card is 100% fake and the watch was not sold by them. He wouldn't give any addition info on the watch since he said he cant validate via the pictures I provided.


Well I'm really happy that you checked |> That's the problem with supporting people with such "is it real" posts; there's just no way to guarantee a real PAM, all we can really do is rule out obvious fakes.

So I'm glad you put in the additional effort and now we know this deal is *not* ok. Maybe the PAM is real and the card was lost, maybe the PAM was stolen, whatever - if it doesn't all check out, ALWAYS walk away from the deal ;-)


----------



## playpar6

Hi. Im a newbie and was hoping to get confirmation that this Panerai 335 posted on eBay is in fact a fake. The white date dial and the back casing look quite different than pictures of the 335 I have seen online but the seller claims to include the papers, box, certificate, etc.

Panerai Luminor 1950 10 Days GMT Ceramic 44mm Pam 335 | eBay

Thanks!


----------



## Aaron Shapiro

I just purchased this from a friend. Feel pretty good about it but I figured it was worth posting here to double check. I have the box and warranty card from the AD, as well as the original strap which I can't wait to put on it. I just don't have pics of those available right now. Whatcha guys think?


----------



## jigelow

2ndoaa said:


> other opinions, please? TIA
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


There's no clone P9000 movement that is that accurate. You can tell by the balance wheel. I'd say with a fair amount of certainty that its real.


----------



## korneevy

xriddle said:


> Bump TIA


Fake box, fake warranty card, fake COSC, mismatching serials. What else do you need to know?


----------



## fatbaldbloke

Aaron, a watch with the same serial number was for sale last year I think (I can't read Russian) on a russian website sold by crown and calibre watches in the US. Does that tally with where your friend bought it from?

http://baystore.ru/catalog/281-jewe...black-seal-logo-pam-380-mens-watch-box-papers


----------



## Aaron Shapiro

fatbaldbloke said:


> Aaron, a watch with the same serial number was for sale last year I think (I can't read Russian) on a russian website sold by crown and calibre watches in the US. Does that tally with where your friend bought it from?
> 
> http://baystore.ru/catalog/281-jewe...black-seal-logo-pam-380-mens-watch-box-papers


I believe that I am the third owner, my friend bought it from a user on here.


----------



## Aaron Shapiro

Here's the original sales thread: https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=1058362


----------



## goldengoat55555

hi guys, in dire need of your help. Is this panerai a real or fake? I have been told that the watch is a fairly old model from 1999, but it had no papers, box and was not from an authorised panerai dealer.



























thanks.


----------



## Tallboyr

goldengoat55555 said:


> hi guys, in dire need of your help. Is this panerai a real or fake? I have been told that the watch is a fairly old model from 1999, but it had no papers, box and was not from an authorised panerai dealer.
> 
> View attachment 1701074
> View attachment 1701082
> View attachment 1701090
> View attachment 1701098
> 
> 
> thanks.


Looks like a very bad fake to me....


----------



## vdub007

Tallboyr said:


> Looks like a very bad fake to me....


x2!!

canal street crap


----------



## toledo9217

i was buy this watch on ebay is this original?


----------



## korneevy

toledo9217 said:


> i was buy this watch on ebay is this original?
> 
> View attachment 1782746
> View attachment 1782754
> View attachment 1782762
> View attachment 1782770
> View attachment 1782802


Of course its original! Well worth the whole of 250$ they are asking for it.

PS: this was a misleading statement, I realised. In all seriousness, learn about Panerai before even thinking about buying it unseen online. And yes, that one in your photos is 100% fake.


----------



## toledo9217

korneevy said:


> Of course its original! Well worth the whole of 250$ they are asking for it.
> 
> PS: this was a misleading statement, I realised. In all seriousness, learn about Panerai before even thinking about buying it unseen online. And yes, that one in your photos is 100% fake.


How do you know. i didn't think this is fake


----------



## korneevy

toledo9217 said:


> How do you know. i didn't think this is fake


Look up what is incablock and how it looks on genuine Panerai. And as I said, you have to read a ton of you want buy a used PAM unseen. Or take a plunge and get that fake one, I am sure it is going for about $250 so it will be a lesson in what not to buy in the future


----------



## casavova007

Hello guys! Trying to get some feedback on this Pam 112 .
anyone can tell if this real or not. Please respond as I'm meeting with the seller around 3 pm today.
Thanks


----------



## casavova007

Is this one a real deal or another one bust to dust. Please reply ASAP


----------



## suparobg

Is this a real 312 P.9000 Panerai Marina Luminor. If its fake what makes it a fake. Thanks in advance


----------



## casavova007

suparobg said:


> Is this a real 312 P.9000 Panerai Marina Luminor. If its fake what makes it a fake. Thanks in advance


I think this one is a real thing.


----------



## suparobg

how can you tell?


casavova007 said:


> I think this one is a real thing.


----------



## casavova007

All the marking are correct in place but without seeing it can't tell 100%


----------



## suparobg

casavova007 said:


> All the marking are correct in place but without seeing it can't tell 100%


It seems like the 8 in 28 JEWELS is not completely clear. I am going to take some more pics with my better camera. What else should be marked on the movement? is there a serial number ? what would the serial number be on the back of the case start with? do they start with letters or numbers. I am so confused.

Also what is weird is I removed the pin for the strap but when I push it back in it doesn't lock in place even if I am depressing the button on the back of the lug. also when I lay it down on the face the rotor sometimes spins on its own making several revolutions on its own. Is there a way to tighten the crown locking mechanism should I still be able to manually wind the watch when the lock is applied?

Help


----------



## casavova007

Did you see I posted pictures of the Pam112 to see if anyone can tell real or not


----------



## suparobg

casavova007 said:


> Did you see I posted pictures of the Pam112 to see if anyone can tell real or not


Mine is supposed to be a PAM 312 1950 3 day. I just added a lot of hi resolution pictures. whats that about a Pam 112?


----------



## casavova007

suparobg said:


> Mine is supposed to be a PAM 312 1950 3 day. I just added a lot of hi resolution pictures. whats that about a Pam 112?


I'm trying to buy it but wasn't sure if it's real or not. I think I know the answer now and no issues there.
as far as your watch lock is should be tight and crown shoud stay shot


----------



## SBD

Suparobg, that 312 has a very clear and obvious flaw. It is not real. The movement's escapement should be at the 7 o'clock position, but in yours, it is at 11 o'clock -- which is where you'd find it on a 7750 (or asian clone) which is what the counterfeiter modified to make yours.


----------



## SBD

casavova007 said:


> I'm trying to buy it but wasn't sure if it's real or not. I think I know the answer now and no issues there.
> as far as your watch lock is should be tight and crown shoud stay shot


Your 112 is fake, I'm sorry to say. The incabloc is wrong just like the one posted yesterday, as called out by Korneevy.


----------



## casavova007

I have several opinions on that watch and most of them called its real but I decided not to chase this one anymore.
Thank again!


----------



## shnjb

Telling a real vs fake Panerai by movement is very easy.

If you cannot tell, then buy from authorized dealers.

Otherwise, just look at more pics.


----------



## casavova007

I didn't see the watch in person. All pictures were emailed to me and it was very hard to be sure 100%. However, this is no longer on my list . Thank you all for your help.
Best


----------



## amahi111

suparobg said:


> It seems like the 8 in 28 JEWELS is not completely clear. I am going to take some more pics with my better camera. What else should be marked on the movement? is there a serial number ? what would the serial number be on the back of the case start with? do they start with letters or numbers. I am so confused.
> 
> Also what is weird is I removed the pin for the strap but when I push it back in it doesn't lock in place even if I am depressing the button on the back of the lug. also when I lay it down on the face the rotor sometimes spins on its own making several revolutions on its own. Is there a way to tighten the crown locking mechanism should I still be able to manually wind the watch when the lock is applied?
> 
> Help


It's a fake. The escapement wheel is in the wrong position. Its at the 11 o'clock mark. The real movement has the escapement at the 7 o'clock position.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## suparobg

I know the escapement wheel is in the wrong spot. Someone already said that.
Thanks though


----------



## Aaron Shapiro

amahi111 said:


> It's a fake. The escapement wheel is in the wrong position. Its at the 11 o'clock mark. The real movement has the escapement at the 7 o'clock position.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Yep my P.9000 looks different.


----------



## Chris Nackers

Hi all, I was looking at purchasing a 505, really digging that watch and wanted to add another Panerai to the collection. I found a few people selling on the rolex forums for 8k and 6900k as opposed to the 10k retail. However, after a little searching, i stumbled across this which has me absolutely TERRIFIED. I can't see the difference so how the hell would i know if it's fake?

KW PAM 505

Has me thinking i might just buy at an authorized dealer so i don't need to worry about it.

Appreciate any insight, or what i should be looking for in pictures to identify fake vs real.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Chris Nackers

This is a pic of the movement from one of the ones i'm looking at, but the glass isn't burnished like i see on other pics. The engraving/etching just looks "off" to me as well. But it could just be dirty or something.


----------



## Miguel192021

Hi everyone so i just got this luminor panerai daylight but i really dont know if its a fake or real could anyone help me???


----------



## SBD

Miguel192021 said:


> Hi everyone so i just got this luminor panerai daylight but i really dont know if its a fake or real could anyone help me???


Date window is not located in the right spot, the 12 font is not thick enough. I'm sure there's more, but seems like enough to conclude FAKE.


----------



## krugerbud

Whats a PAM 210 worth? Is it a good collector watch?


----------



## R1P

krugerbud said:


> Whats a PAM 210 worth? Is it a good collector watch?


I don't believe you'll find that answer here...google is your best bet.


----------



## shnjb

R1P said:


> I don't believe you'll find that answer here...google is your best bet.


Www.lmgtfy.com


----------



## alikara

Hi All,

I am about to purchase this PAM 392 and would appreciate any help if someone could confirm if its real. Its supposed to come with boxes and papers. Thanks!


----------



## iLuveketchup

Please advise! Your help is greatly appreciated!

I bought a PAM 048 from a jewelry store with a 14day return policy. I was looking through photos of other 48s and noticed that my 48 doesn't have the "L SWISS 6 MADE L" marking on the dial. But instead it has a "L SWISS L" below the 6 (see photo below). Does this look right for an "H" series PAM 048?

Details:


Watch came double boxed.
Has COSC certificate. Although I have not opened the case to verify matching numbers.
Has a warranty card with stamped matching BB #.
The watch is an "H" series... so that dates it to 2005?
Came with a brown alligator strap with deployant. Photos are with an aftermarket strap.
Watch keeps amazing time. My most accurate ETA watch.

Sorry for the noisy photos.


----------



## chev81

alikara said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am about to purchase this PAM 392 and would appreciate any help if someone could confirm if its real. Its supposed to come with boxes and papers. Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 2030258
> View attachment 2030250
> View attachment 2030242
> View attachment 2030234


Rest assured that is 100% genuine. Prior to purchasing mine I did thorough research and to date there is only one fake of the 392. The replication of it is nowhere near close. You can purchase in confidence knowing its real.

Thanks

P.S. Excellent choice by the way!


----------



## Abc311

Is this real?


----------



## R1P

Abc311 said:


> Is this real?


Looks real...real fake as far as I can see from the pictures; "Officine Panera"? It's missing a letter off the bat, or it may be the shadow. The case finishing seems very suspect, as is the hands, etc.

Was it a gift?


----------



## watchguy7

hi


----------



## evelynleetc

Hello!

I am looking at my first Panerai and wanted a Chrono Watch with a Stainless Steel strap, a Date and a See through Back.

I did a bit of digging around and decided that the Pam 72 was had the answers to all my specifications.

I found my dream from a reliable seller with a good selling history.

As a precaution, may I have your valued opinion on its authenticity?

Panerai Luminor Marina 72 D El Primero 40mm Titanium Steel Cosc Chrono Full Set | eBay

Thank you!


----------



## kwasi

Hello guys, i bought this panerai some weeks ago on the blackmarket, am not too sure whether its real or fake
















































, pls i need help!


----------



## Tallboyr

Almost certain that's bad fake.. ..


----------



## suparobg

that is one of the worst fakes I have seen. Hope you didn't pay more than 10.00 for it



kwasi said:


> Hello guys, i bought this panerai some weeks ago on the blackmarket, am not too sure whether its real or fake
> View attachment 2243946
> View attachment 2243954
> View attachment 2243962
> View attachment 2243970
> View attachment 2243978
> View attachment 2244026
> View attachment 2244034
> View attachment 2244042
> , pls i need help!


----------



## gagnello

kwasi said:


> Hello guys, i bought this panerai some weeks ago on the blackmarket, am not too sure whether its real or fake
> View attachment 2243946
> View attachment 2243954
> View attachment 2243962
> View attachment 2243970
> View attachment 2243978
> View attachment 2244026
> View attachment 2244034
> View attachment 2244042
> , pls i need help!


Congrats. It is a piece of garbage.


----------



## alikara

Thanks for the info chev81! Really appreciate it 



chev81 said:


> Rest assured that is 100% genuine. Prior to purchasing mine I did thorough research and to date there is only one fake of the 392. The replication of it is nowhere near close. You can purchase in confidence knowing its real.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> P.S. Excellent choice by the way!


----------



## casavova007

Hey! Thanks I will consider it now for sure.


----------



## Travelller

iLuveketchup said:


> ...my 48 doesn't have the "L SWISS 6 MADE L" marking on the dial. But instead it has a "L SWISS L" below the 6 (see photo below). Does this look right for an "H" series PAM 048?


Although I can't be 100% sure about your watch, I'm 100% sure OP used the L SWISS L on many occasions - even recently, with the 2012 448, for example. Given all the other "ticked boxes" I'd say you've got nothing to worry about. Love the thickness of the numbers on this one, congrats :-!



Abc311 said:


> Is this real?


White-framed hands... :rodekaart Don't even need to look at the caseback.



kwasi said:


> Hello guys, i bought this panerai some weeks ago on the blackmarket...


and you got what you deserved for buying on the "black market"... :roll: *L*


----------



## bigclive2011

Will everyone stop pasting those pics!

They are making my eyes bleed!

(


----------



## shnjb

kwasi said:


> Hello guys, i bought this panerai some weeks ago on the blackmarket, am not too sure whether its real or fake
> View attachment 2243946
> View attachment 2243954
> View attachment 2243962
> View attachment 2243970
> View attachment 2243978
> View attachment 2244026
> View attachment 2244034
> View attachment 2244042
> , pls i need help!


Surely u must know that this is a fake.
I mean you have the internet and can google "panerai" right


----------



## Trailboss

I'm sorry to beat a dead horse here, but...... *barf emoji* x 100

That was painful.


----------



## R1P

shnjb said:


> Surely u must know that this is a fake.
> I mean you have the internet and can google "panerai" right


I like the "Titanium Caseback Luminior 1950 Ceramic"...verbatim; Astonishing. Oh, and the strap is another work of art.


----------



## donpaeng

anybody know if fakes update their series? just recently bought a pam112 from my friends reputable dealer, but they buy internationally and sell as a sort of 3rd party since there are no AD's in our region. so they may have unknowingly sold a replica. so this is a Q series, watch looks legit, compared it to my pam005 which i bought myself in a boutique in lucerne. whats pressing for concern is the paperwork, the lack of stamp in the warranty card, which is vital for warranty service and resale value, and i compared my warranty card to the one i have with my pam005 and it has different fonts and color of print, and card, so that threw me off even more since the pam005 is also a Q series, yes i caught that panerai bug, cant notice any discrepancies on the watch except that the buckle has a slight difference in font size. anyway want someone is more experienced on these watches who can give me good advice and yes i will go to an AD and have it verified by the end of the month, but till then just want another opinion guys. thanks.


----------



## donpaeng

i wanna learn how to look at the incablock, what are the tells to verify if it is fake? what is the difference from the one posted and in the genuine panerai?


----------



## donpaeng

SBD said:


> Vdub007 is correct...the incabloc has at least 2 errors compared to the real movement. Sorry.


what are the two errors in the incabloc? i wanna learn how to read incablocs thanks.


----------



## donpaeng

Travelller said:


> Looks ok to me but I can't guarantee anything. Regarding the registration card, here's one possibility; the owner bought a 390, found something wrong with it, brought it back and got a replacement. Second option, the sales rep wrote the wrong # (maybe he was looking at several PAMs at the same time...). In both cases, I'm just surprised they didn't draw a line through the old/wrong #... :think: You can do what I did; send the photo of the card to the AD (on the card). In my case, they confirmed that the card was authentic |>


the dead give away was the COSC card, it shouldn't have one since it doesn't have the second hand. pam112's don't have the COSC and the serial number should always match the serial on the watch. the watch is a really good copy though. but if you search online, you can buy a fake box complete with COSC card and International guarantee exactly like that.


----------



## Bulldog101

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

Very BAD fake!


----------



## donpaeng

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*



Bulldog101 said:


> Very BAD fake!


Which one?


----------



## R1P

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*



donpaeng said:


> Which one?


I don't believe you will get many more answers here, especially incabloc, swan neck or any other specifics you may be after; you will have to do homework on your own.

You must understand there is much skepticism when you're a new kid on the block and head straight to the fake forum, because the last thing people want to do is tip off potential fakers and help them improve the garbage they put out into the market ripping off more buyers in the process.

My suggestion, head to an AD and have them verify the watch.

Oh, and we'd be interested in knowing what you find out...


----------



## donpaeng

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*



R1P said:


> I don't believe you will get many more answers here, especially incabloc, swan neck or any other specifics you may be after; you will have to do homework on your own.
> 
> You must understand there is much skepticism when you're a new kid on the block and head straight to the fake forum, because the last thing people want to do is tip off potential fakers and help them improve the garbage they put out into the market ripping off more buyers in the process.
> 
> My suggestion, head to an AD and have them verify the watch.
> 
> Oh, and we'd be interested in knowing what you find out...


Thanks a lot man, appreciate youre reply, finally figured out what was wrong with that pam111's incabloc, it was a damn good fake though..... pays to study. and okay i will let you guys know by the end of the month.


----------



## dark_divine1218

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

IM NO EXPERT BUT SAW A LOT OF WATCHES IN THIS THREAD ARE FAKE.
THATS THE REASON BEFORE HANDING CASH TO SELLER I WILL MAKE IT AS COMPULSORY THAT BOTH OF US(BUYER AND SELLER) WILL GO TO REPUTABLE WATCH MAKER IN MY REGION TO GET THE WATCH AUTHENTICATE JUST TO ENSURE THAT IM PAYING FOR LEGIT STUFF.

I WILL NOT BUY IF I DON'T SEE THE ACTUAL WATCH AND IF SELLER REFUSE TO SEND IT FOR AUTHENTICATION.

ALTHO THERES A LOT OF REPUTABLE ONLINE SELLER WITH LOTSA REFERENCES, BUT THIS IS JUST ME, MORE COMFORTABLE IN DEALING FACE TO FACE AND AUTHENTICATE THE WATCH TOGETHER BEFORE DEALING TO SAFEGUARD MYSELF FROM GETTING A KNOCK OFF FUGLY PAM.

*IF IT LOOKS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE THEN IT'S NOT TRUE.*

below are FAQ for Authenticity guidance from Paneristi.com

*Authenticity

**Q* I have seen this watch [_picture, auction number_] on [_a well known auction site_], the price looks good. What do you think of it?
*A* It is a piece of junk fake. A counterfeit. Please, screw on your thinking head, and let's take a close look at this "watch".
Tell tale signs that it is a fake


it's butt ugly
it has no box or papers
the seller says "cannot guarantee authenticity"
the seller says he "prefers cash"
the photo appears to have been taken by a drunken bear with a box-brownie in the middle of a white-out (or at night) and finally and most damning


the price differs from the price of other Panerais by a factor of 10
You will not buy a Panerai for $100, $150, $200, $400 or $800 (unless it is seriously, seriously, trashed). Anything under $1000 is almost certainly a fake, unless you happen to have bumped into the opening minutes of an auction. Even then you're unlikely to get much change out of $2000.


The bargains in the watch world are very few and far between. There's no such thing as a free lunch. If it looks too good to be true then it's not true.The majority of fakes are automatic and have centre seconds. This combination only exists in genuine Panerai for the GMT and Power Reserve models. Panerai do not make, and have never made, quartz watches.

*Q* I have been given a Panerai as a gift, and I'm now starting to suspect that it might be a counterfeit. Can you assess it for me?
*A* Before we actually look at your watch, let's look at your benefactor. Unless they are very rich, very generous, or very stupid, your watch is likely to be a counterfeit.


----------



## donpaeng

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

Panerai Gent's Stainless Steel PAM112 44mm Luminor Base... for $ 4,990 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24

Is it just me or is there something wrong with this watch?


----------



## R1P

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*



donpaeng said:


> Panerai Gent's Stainless Steel PAM112 44mm Luminor Base... for $Â 4,990 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24
> 
> Is it just me or is there something wrong with this watch?
> View attachment 2392721


Yeah, it's on hold already...


----------



## K Hunter

Removed


----------



## donpaeng

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

So i was able to finally visit the nearest botique, everything seems to be in order, but we did notice there seemed to be a very slight play in the crown guards lever, anybody else experience this? he also advised me to check with my dealer again and have the card stamped since this is an issue for warranty purposes.

os ive been digging online and saw this old post,

https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/friends-pam111-fake-221876-2.html

man if this is a fake its a really good one, the back is on point except the markings for the +- in the swan neck arent clear, maybe its the picture, but everything else seems on point. scary stuff.


----------



## Wlover

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

I think the crown guard issue is just the screw securing the crown guard being a little loose?


----------



## donpaeng

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

the lever is actually the issue, its not as tight as my pam005, with the lever open in my 005 and i set it like at 2 oclock it stays there even when i give the watch a good shake downwards, with the same amount of shake the 112 goes down, and ive done this test a couple of times. i mean i paid the SRP for the watch, id hate for myself to be conned, or the crown guard replaced or something. so far i've never heard of a lever wobbly or a loose on a panerai. and has anyone here know if the panerai engravement on the buckle "always" have the same font size? or do they differ? and if they also fake the stamps? idk if im just paranoid by i do appreciate anybody replying and trying to help me out. thanks guys.


----------



## R1P

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*



donpaeng said:


> the lever is actually the issue, its not as tight as my pam005, with the lever open in my 005 and i set it like at 2 oclock it stays there even when i give the watch a good shake downwards, with the same amount of shake the 112 goes down, and ive done this test a couple of times. i mean i paid the SRP for the watch, id hate for myself to be conned, or the crown guard replaced or something. so far i've never heard of a lever wobbly or a loose on a panerai. and has anyone here know if the panerai engravement on the buckle "always" have the same font size? or do they differ? and if they also fake the stamps? idk if im just paranoid by i do appreciate anybody replying and trying to help me out. thanks guys.


So the boutique could not verify if it was authentic?


----------



## donpaeng

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

actually i did it in the panerai boutique in manila, they say only panerai hongkong authenticates, but he did take a look at the watch, and did say the everything from the case itself is about right and from what he could tell from the movement. but the crown should not be wobbly, so that kinda left me in limbo. im deciding to give back the watch to the dealer till she can give me the proper stamps on the warranty card and then i can just have it serviced through warranty, then they'll probably fix the crown issue if it is authentic and refuse it if it is indeed a counterfeit. such a hassle, ill never buy from the grey market again..

i also have one more question, my pam112 strap seems kind of stiff, i also have a radiomir pam380, i believe the black oem leather strap should be the same material as the pam 112 right? also a Q series, actually its my fathers watch, he bought it the same time i bought the 005, anyway the leather strap of the pam380 is really soft compared to the pam112, it was kind of stiff, the warranty service card also has a different color and font compared to my pam005 is this normal? also the buckle of the pam112 has a slightly different font compared to my pam 005. i dont know if im just being paranoid but it really sucks to be conned paying full price for a watch.


----------



## peenoise

donpaeng said:


> actually i did it in the panerai boutique in manila, they say only panerai hongkong authenticates, but he did take a look at the watch, and did say the everything from the case itself is about right and from what he could tell from the movement. but the crown should not be wobbly, so that kinda left me in limbo. im deciding to give back the watch to the dealer till she can give me the proper stamps on the warranty card and then i can just have it serviced through warranty, then they'll probably fix the crown issue if it is authentic and refuse it if it is indeed a counterfeit. such a hassle, ill never buy from the grey market again..
> 
> i also have one more question, my pam112 strap seems kind of stiff, i also have a radiomir pam380, i believe the black oem leather strap should be the same material as the pam 112 right? also a Q series, actually its my fathers watch, he bought it the same time i bought the 005, anyway the leather strap of the pam380 is really soft compared to the pam112, it was kind of stiff, the warranty service card also has a different color and font compared to my pam005 is this normal? also the buckle of the pam112 has a slightly different font compared to my pam 005. i dont know if im just being paranoid but it really sucks to be conned paying full price for a watch.
> View attachment 2533290


kabayan, based on your picture, your pam is genuine, but it was bought from grey market, which means not authorized dealer..

its like buying a watch from grey market on internet, like jomashop but what they sell are real..

Probably what you bought is a restocked item, which was mishandled by the previous buyer who returned it ( that explains probably the crown issue). Better return it and buy from an authorized dealer to save you headache and sleepless nights thinking of your watch.

I am a buyer from a grey market, on my opinion i will buy only quartz movement, not mechanical one.. and i make sure that it is not restocked item.
My tag heuer formula 1 was purchased from jomashop which i was able to saved than buying from AD. It works perfectly as my daily beater watch.


----------



## einvan

Just the thread I've been looking for. Looking to purchase my first Panerai and could really use the help. I found these two watches via Chrono24. Hopefully you guys can give me some insight. Thanks,

[142259] Panerai Luminor steel Manual winding Kal.ETA B99501 LP: 5100EUR - Zeitauktion GmbH

Panerai Luminor Marina Pam 00113 | Compra-venta relojes Panerai


----------



## Wlover

I am sure the Pams shown in the 2 websites are real. Only issue is I have never came across these websites so you may want to ensure the websites are legit.



einvan said:


> Just the thread I've been looking for. Looking to purchase my first Panerai and could really use the help. I found these two watches via Chrono24. Hopefully you guys can give me some insight. Thanks,
> 
> [142259] Panerai Luminor steel Manual winding Kal.ETA B99501 LP: 5100EUR - Zeitauktion GmbH
> 
> Panerai Luminor Marina Pam 00113 | Compra-venta relojes Panerai


----------



## donpaeng

in my opinion, if you were to buy 1 of the two, pick the latter website. 

#1 it is a P series so that would mean it was purchased in 2013, it could still be under the 2 year warranty. 

#2 the 1st website with the black strap has a weird COSC card, it should have the movement number there unless he photo shopped to block it, which is pretty useless at that point because they already showed a picture with the movement number 
which would be 524359, that number should be reflected in the COSC card, printed and not hand written, well at least from my own experience. not sure with the old PAM's.

#3 the K series PAM is the year 2008 i believe, and the card says 2010 the year it was purchased. 

#4 that type of box that the K series PAM has, has a fake version box, exactly like that. 

#5 the hand writting on the K series PAM is not homogeneous, K165/500 and 21/03/10 is written by 2 different people and K165/500 is not the serial number.


----------



## Knisse

Hello there, just want to ask if anyone can help me out - if this PAM112 is real or not? I was abit scared then i saw "swiss" at the bottom and at some other panerais i saw "Swiss made".


----------



## suparobg

Knisse said:


> Hello there, just want to ask if anyone can help me out - if this PAM112 is real or not? I was abit scared then i saw "swiss" at the bottom and at some other panerais i saw "Swiss made".


I think you have a fake because the OFFICINE PANERAI on the movement should be blue, not gold, I can't tell the depth of the writing on the top side of the strap if it is shallow or deep,but it should be deep and the sides of the strap should be smooth.
Also where the writing on the back of your watch that says F----/4000 is engraved instead of cut out from the caseback like the real ones. I would stay away.


----------



## Travelller

The G and older 111/112s has stuffed dials like your sample and 1700 is the correct number for F (2003) so so far, so good. The platine engraving (PANERAI stamping) is also correct for this unit.
Having said that, no one can guarantee authenticity. paperwork is a must (but still doesn't guarantee 100%) - check the AD on the guarantee card/paperwork , call/write them (describe how they signed / stamped the card/paperwork).

It could be that a movement expert posts their opinion - I'm not good at that and the fakes are 99% accurate... 

I will say this; I am looking for a 111 E/F/G/ so congratulations to you if it is indeed the real deal


----------



## Travelller

suparobg said:


> ...the OFFICINE PANERAI on the movement should be blue, not gold ... Also where the writing on the back of your watch that says F----/4000 is engraved instead of cut out from the caseback like the real ones...


No & no. See my post above.


----------



## Knisse

suparobg said:


> I think you have a fake because the OFFICINE PANERAI on the movement should be blue, not gold, I can't tell the depth of the writing on the top side of the strap if it is shallow or deep,but it should be deep and the sides of the strap should be smooth.
> Also where the writing on the back of your watch that says F----/4000 is engraved instead of cut out from the caseback like the real ones. I would stay away.


Thank you for taking the time. If you google "pam 112 caseback" then none of the pictures has blue OFFICINE PANERAI.

https://www.google.dk/search?q=pam+...&biw=1057&bih=755#tbm=isch&q=pam+112+caseback

And i think the lightning is making it gold, the color is more silver like in the first picture, the lamp lighting is kind of distracting.

/EDIT by the way i have already purchased the watch, it came a few hours ago. If you need more pictures of certains details or something to help clarify then please let me know.. I would like to have some good evidence if i need to contact the seller and claim that it is a fake.

/EDIT2 i must admit, it looks kind of similar to this one (even has the decorated movement): https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-panerai-pam-112-f-series-decorated-movement-583915.html and this https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/sold...d-dial-exhibition-back-completete-613616.html


----------



## Knisse

Travelller said:


> The G and older 111/112s has stuffed dials like your sample and 1700 is the correct number for F (2003) so so far, so good. The platine engraving (PANERAI stamping) is also correct for this unit.
> Having said that, no one can guarantee authenticity. paperwork is a must (but still doesn't guarantee 100%) - check the AD on the guarantee card/paperwork , call/write them (describe how they signed / stamped the card/paperwork).
> 
> It could be that a movement expert posts their opinion - I'm not good at that and the fakes are 99% accurate...
> 
> I will say this; I am looking for a 111 E/F/G/ so congratulations to you if it is indeed the real deal


Also thank you for taking the time! Can i ask, do you have a website to find purchasing year? I am also uncertain if the decorated back makes a special edition or something?


----------



## korneevy

Knisse said:


> Also thank you for taking the time! Can i ask, do you have a website to find purchasing year? I am also uncertain if the decorated back makes a special edition or something?


It's not a special edition, it was simply a previously used way of decorating the movement that Panerai changed some ways back. Go to Paneristi dot com and visit their reference section to study more. I would never pay any money based on the photos you,be got there, so be very careful as you seem to know zilch about the brand and fakes are very, very, very good (if you don't know what to look for). Educate yourself before spending serious cash on these base model watches, and always assume they are fake until the seller proves otherwise - match case, movement a d COCS certificate against what you see in the watch Vs paperwork; any doubt - walk away, there are a LOT of them out there, prices are coming down so no need to rush and take risks with your hard earned cash. Good luck.


----------



## Knisse

korneevy said:


> It's not a special edition, it was simply a previously used way of decorating the movement that Panerai changed some ways back. Go to Paneristi dot com and visit their reference section to study more. I would never pay any money based on the photos you,be got there, so be very careful as you seem to know zilch about the brand and fakes are very, very, very good (if you don't know what to look for). Educate yourself before spending serious cash on these base model watches, and always assume they are fake until the seller proves otherwise - match case, movement a d COCS certificate against what you see in the watch Vs paperwork; any doubt - walk away, there are a LOT of them out there, prices are coming down so no need to rush and take risks with your hard earned cash. Good luck.


Good points, but then tell me what i should look for here? I buy the seller when i purchase watches, and this is a seller i have bought from previously (not sold me fakes as of yet).

So far this watch seems identical to the two links i have posted. Of course there are the risk that all three watches are fake. I appreciate your input, but if you got any inputs why you think the pictures i have posted are a fake (beside that seem very sketchy of just the fact that i ask), then please go ahead.


----------



## Ijeremy

Hey all, looking for some advice. I've seen a few confirmed Panerai models with exposed balance wheels but not this exact watch, does anyone have some insight?:


----------



## korneevy

Ijeremy said:


> Hey all, looking for some advice. I've seen a few confirmed Panerai models with exposed balance wheels but not this exact watch, does anyone have some insight?:
> View attachment 2738537
> View attachment 2738545


Fake. There are no "exposed balance wheels Panerai" out there, unless you count in tourbilion but those are $100K watches, yours is a $100 one.


----------



## Travelller

Knisse said:


> ...I buy the seller when i purchase watches ... why you think the pictures i have posted are a fake...


He never said he thought your unit was fake, just to be careful when buying. Buying the seller is 95% of the solution but even sellers can be mislead... .

Do you have all the [matching] paperwork, yes or no?


----------



## Knisse

Travelller said:


> He never said he thought your unit was fake, just to be careful when buying. Buying the seller is 95% of the solution but even sellers can be mislead... .
> 
> Do you have all the [matching] paperwork, yes or no?


True, he said 'thought' but with nothing added, just a generally risk adverse approach, that might be right. At least point to something, unless it is just a random guess. (which it appeared to be)

You are absolutely right that you have to be careful. I do not have the paperwork which is why i am asking, if it was there i would be 100% certain of genuine, but the lack thereof i am only 95% (hence if the buyer didnt know that he was buying a replica in the first place).

I guess i will ask my local dealer if he can tell, but i must admit that compared to the two links i gave earlier i find it unlikely that it is unreal as it is identical too those. Maybe all Panerais are replicas and none are real


----------



## korneevy

Travelller said:


> He never said he thought your unit was fake, just to be careful when buying. Buying the seller is 95% of the solution but even sellers can be mislead... .
> 
> Do you have all the [matching] paperwork, yes or no?


What he said. I never said the piece was a fugazi - your photos are far from detailed and quite blurry, hence my comment that if I were presented with these pictures alone, I would never buy it, specially if the paperwork is missing.

I know nothing of your seller, his knowledge and reputation but even honest people get duped and that watch is very easy to copy and I've see a few cases where people get taken for serious money on these older watches.

Chasing a few hundred bucks discount in these situation are silly, wait and shop around and get a full set - else you will never actually know what you,have, until after you send it to Panerai for service, and it may be way too late to recoup any losses if it comes to that then. There is an abundance of these pieces, they are not really "special" in Panerai collector terms, were made in large numbers every single year since the start of Panerai in Switzerland and with overall softening of Panerai resell values, you can get one with papers, recent Panerai service etc. for a reasonable price.

that's all.


----------



## bigclive2011

How to spot a fake Panerai.

1) Panerai start at £3000, even used, If less than that then either the seller is mad or its a fake.

2) You wont find a Panerai in the market.

3) See point 1)

The photo you have posted is a horrible fake, and if you are ever unsure log on to the Paneristi website and there is a reference section for all models with photos.


----------



## alikara

Hi Everyone,

About to buy this PAM 392. Pics are small but can someone verify authenticity please


----------



## McGriddle

alikara said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> About to buy this PAM 392. Pics are small but can someone verify authenticity please


The pics aren't the best, but from the looks of them, it looks real compared to the stock photos from Panerai along with the carved out serial. Having the box, parts, and rubber case cover makes it appear authentic as well. Hopefully someone else can help further!


----------



## MattyMac

Holy SH*t is that bad...



Ijeremy said:


> Hey all, looking for some advice. I've seen a few confirmed Panerai models with exposed balance wheels but not this exact watch, does anyone have some insight?:
> View attachment 2738537
> View attachment 2738545


----------



## korneevy

MattyMac said:


> Holy SH*t is that bad...


What's scarier is that someone takes time to register on this forum and ask if it's indeed a real $80K watch. #fail


----------



## thebusinessend

This is a Pam111 comes with two leather straps. Pics of the back are not very good, and I am going to ask for another. Said the buckle is from a different PAM watch but I kinda like it with the black strap. How does the front look? Thanks for any help.


----------



## McGriddle

thebusinessend said:


> This is a Pam111 comes with two leather straps. Pics of the back are not very good, and I am going to ask for another. Said the buckle is from a different PAM watch but I kinda like it with the black strap. How does the front look? Thanks for any help.


At a glance, the watch looks authentic for a 111 based on the case, sandwich dial, and movement despite the poor pictures.


----------



## thebusinessend

McGriddle said:


> At a glance, the watch looks authentic for a 111 based on the case, sandwich dial, and movement despite the poor pictures.


Thanks. I will see if I can get anymore. I dont really want the 111 and would much rather have a 510. Its slightly out of my budget at the moment. TO bad I cant find one for around 5k


----------



## McGriddle

thebusinessend said:


> Thanks. I will see if I can get anymore. I dont really want the 111 and would much rather have a 510. Its slightly out of my budget at the moment. TO bad I cant find one for around 5k


I hear ya. I have the 510 myself and love it. I would say, if it boils down to it, you might be happier waiting a touch to get the watch that you want than to get the 111 and feel like you missed out. Buying from a GM would help since you'd also know it was real but just without factory warranty.


----------



## korneevy

Are you buying the two straps and a buckle or there is also a watch included? I am saying this as based on these photos there is no way in hell to say it's authentic or otherwise, you need close up on the movement and check I matching papers and COSC number against the movement. The straps and buckle are carrying zero value so focus on what's important here first.


----------



## gibsonles

Hello all!

looking at a PAM locally and wanted to get your thoughts. The pictures aren't very great but any feedback would be appreciated. I asked the seller for a few additional pictures as well. For some reason he took pictures of the watch in the rain (e.g. look at the first few) -_-


----------



## korneevy

1. Ask for papers and match it to the watch. 2. Ask for movement shot close up and check the incablock and engravings. Other than these, you won't be able to have any 100% assurance that the watch is genuine - there are copies of this and other Unitas models that you can not tell from originals on photos, unless you have 1&2.


----------



## heresiarh

I recently bought a 2003 PAM 48 in excellent condition with complete box and papers. But, the deployant clasp caught my attention and it looks out of place compared to my brushed push button deployant clasp on my 2011 Pam 48. Big question, is this fake?


----------



## Synequano

Is it the older deployant clasp? Looks like it uses friction instead of push button mechanism,even the 111 of 2002 has the thumbnail buckle instead of the standard pre-V supplied with latest models

However I have several 44mm and 40mm G models (2004) that already has the newer style push-button deployant


----------



## Jeffro1

Hello all - I'm considering the purchase of a 111 and looking at both a painted dial and a sandwich dial. Here are a few pics of the 111-G, and the 111-N anything jump out as not genuine? The G first...


























And here are a few pics of the 111-N series:




















Thank you for your time & feedback.. one of these may become my first PAM!

Cheers,

Jeffro


----------



## McGriddle

Jeffro1 said:


> Hello all - I'm considering the purchase of a 111 and looking at both a painted dial and a sandwich dial. Here are a few pics of the 111-G, and the 111-N anything jump out as not genuine? The G first...
> 
> Thank you for your time & feedback.. one of these may become my first PAM!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jeffro


Hopefully someone else can confirm, but the first one seems off unless the 111 changed over time. Currently, the 111 has a sandwich dial. Also, I believe it should say "Swiss Made" and not just "Swiss" on the dial. The movement differs in decoration and production number is not carved out.

Nothing stands out as immediately off on the second one, but it's hard to be sure.


----------



## Bkro

Both look real, panerai has engraved the movements like the first one pictured.Plus panerai has used LswissL I think is just the lighting regarding the production number.


----------



## Synequano

That 111G is beautiful,lovin the graffiti movt,but the rubber strap supplied is not period correct,and I think the G should have thumbnail buckle (not shown in any of the pics)

Personally I'd pick the G because it's more unique,and the N has no leather strap in the package...


----------



## mat-with-one-t

hey, isn't the crown lock on the 119 usually upside-down? I know these came with a polished vs newer matt bezel. Looks rough. I am also learning quickly that a well placed hand can hide all sorts of fun! Is it just coincidence that the hand happened to be over the date window at the moment of truth? So - is it dodgy?





































It's for sale locally, claims to be genuine, and has a price that would be reasonable for a well worn real deal . Just kinda interested....Thanks experts! ;-)


----------



## gibsonles

If anyone has some feedback on this one, I'd really appreciate it!! Thanks



gibsonles said:


> Hello all!
> 
> looking at a PAM locally and wanted to get your thoughts. The pictures aren't very great but any feedback would be appreciated. I asked the seller for a few additional pictures as well. For some reason he took pictures of the watch in the rain (e.g. look at the first few) -_-
> 
> View attachment 2951394
> 
> View attachment 2951346
> 
> View attachment 2951354
> 
> View attachment 2951370
> 
> View attachment 2951378


----------



## korneevy

mat-with-one-t said:


> hey, isn't the crown lock on the 119 usually upside-down? I know these came with a polished vs newer matt bezel. Looks rough. I am also learning quickly that a well placed hand can hide all sorts of fun! Is it just coincidence that the hand happened to be over the date window at the moment of truth? So - is it dodgy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's for sale locally, claims to be genuine, and has a price that would be reasonable for a well worn real deal . Just kinda interested....Thanks experts! ;-)


Just run. It's a $30 pos that you shall not be touching with a stick.


----------



## mat-with-one-t

Yep my thoughts exactly!


----------



## MDiver

Hi guys,

Please provide your input. I am pretty confident in my opinion, but I would appreciate your expert eyes...


----------



## mastergreenhand

:-s


----------



## Johnnyq

deleted


----------



## Synequano

That pam 125 is beautiful,and the Austrian rubber strap is much better than the newer Italian ones


----------



## Johnnyq

Thanks Synequano. I'm torn between these and a couple of others.


----------



## stamatov78

Hello all.what you think about this PAM111,legit or not.


----------



## 0mega 82

Hi,I want to buy this Panerai.I do not know much about this brand,respective a watch is with incabloc sistem and movement base in ETA 6497,also has stamps on the underside of the balance,serial numbers on movement,box and papers.Seller wants $ 4700.What do you think?

Thank you!


----------



## m630

stamatov78 said:


> Hello all.what you think about this PAM111,legit or not.


Not


----------



## LeftRightLeft

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

Is this a real PAM183? Series J


----------



## gibsonles

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

Could anyone help me out with this 240 watch?


----------



## Stevestojan

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

I saw that same one on eBay. Full COSC cert, and he says the warranty is stamped by an AD. I emailed him 2 days ago to confirm the AD stamp as the back of warranty card isn't shown, and he hasn't emailed me back. That said he could just be slow to respond. But it is one of the most complete sets (paperwork wise) I've seen for a 240. I'm still not bidding until he gets back to me.


----------



## donpaeng

0mega 82 said:


> Hi,I want to buy this Panerai.I do not know much about this brand,respective a watch is with incabloc sistem and movement base in ETA 6497,also has stamps on the underside of the balance,serial numbers on movement,box and papers.Seller wants $ 4700.What do you think?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> sorry bro this is not genuine. do not buy it. its a replica. at most 300$


definitely NOT GENUINE. PLEASE DO NOT LET THE SELLER FOOL YOU.


----------



## donpaeng

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*



LeftRightLeft said:


> Is this a real PAM183? Series J
> View attachment 3135578
> View attachment 3135586
> View attachment 3135602
> View attachment 3135610


To be honest, its really hard to tell the replica from a genuine from the front, especially from images. it would be better for you to get shots focused on the movement, his photos are from an angle. it would be better to be flat out to be sure.


----------



## gibsonles

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

I would caution everyone to stay far away from this watch on eBay. I made an offer to the seller contingent on him sending me a few additional pics (one included a detailed pic of the warranty card he 'claims' to have. He didn't respond to me for a few days and I followed-up a few times until he cancelled my order today. STAY AWAY!



Stevestojan said:


> I saw that same one on eBay. Full COSC cert, and he says the warranty is stamped by an AD. I emailed him 2 days ago to confirm the AD stamp as the back of warranty card isn't shown, and he hasn't emailed me back. That said he could just be slow to respond. But it is one of the most complete sets (paperwork wise) I've seen for a 240. I'm still not bidding until he gets back to me.


----------



## Johnnyq

deleted


----------



## Stevestojan

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*



gibsonles said:


> I would caution everyone to stay far away from this watch on eBay. I made an offer to the seller contingent on him sending me a few additional pics (one included a detailed pic of the warranty card he 'claims' to have. He didn't respond to me for a few days and I followed-up a few times until he cancelled my order today. STAY AWAY!


I ended up canceling my offer, even though I did exaclty what you did which was put a contingency on getting more pics. He still never responded back to me.

I ended up ordering from a seller named "todreamawatch." Simply a perfect transaction. All documents, stamped by AD, brand new. Including outside box with bar codes, etc etc etc. Wonderful seller. But the guy with the 240 in question should be avoided indeed.


----------



## Gilles PAM

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

Hello !

I own 3 PAM (111, 183 and 448) and I question myself about one of them, a 111E, which I bought second hand as a complete set a few years ago through a french dedicated Panerai forum. I have no doubt for the other two : the 183 was second hand also but history is all clear and the 448 was bought new from the Panerai boutique.

Browsing the web with "spot fake Panerai" keywords, I found this forum and take the opportunity to have your opinion as experts.

My doubts come from the fact that when I change the time, the two needles move a little bit together at first, as if they were stuck with one another. It does it equally backward and forward. At first it was not much but I find it does it more with time. But maybe it's normal and tells that it needs servicing (it has never had one).

Here are pictures I've just made. I can make others if needed.

Thank you for your answers. I cross my fingers and hold my breath now...

Gilles (France)


----------



## Travelller

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*



Gilles PAM said:


> ...a 111E, which I bought second hand as a complete set a few years ago through a french dedicated Panerai forum ... My doubts come from the fact that when I change the time, the two needles move a little bit together at first, as if they were stuck with one another. It does it equally backward and forward. At first it was not much but I find it does it more with time. But maybe it's normal and tells that it needs servicing (it has never had one).


It looks fine to me but only Panerai can guarantee it 100%. It's an "old" watch and you should have it fully-serviced. Why the hands are rubbing together _(or rather, the gears are fouled)_ is beyond my knowledge and certainly beyond the scope of this thread... :think:

I'm (also) in the EU and I had my 6497-based PAM serviced by _Richemont Northern Europe_ (Munich) for ~ €320. My local watchmaker would have charged not much less for a "full" service. Given that you're a bit uncertain about the authenticity and the 111E is definitely in need of a full service, I'd send it in to Richemont. If, however, your local watchmaker is all that much cheaper, well why not; it's a no-thrills ETA 6497 which I'm sure any competent watchmaker can service. What he/she CAN'T do is verify the _authenticity_... .


----------



## iam7head

stamatov78 said:


> Hello all.what you think about this PAM111,legit or not.


poor fake, the rubber strap is full of flash.

The casing is not even the same shape, the lugs is all rounded off.

The screw bar is off as well.


----------



## Gilles PAM

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*



Travelller said:


> It looks fine to me but only Panerai can guarantee it 100%. It's an "old" watch and you should have it fully-serviced. Why the hands are rubbing together _(or rather, the gears are fouled)_ is beyond my knowledge and certainly beyond the scope of this thread... :think:
> 
> I'm (also) in the EU and I had my 6497-based PAM serviced by _Richemont Northern Europe_ (Munich) for ~ €320. My local watchmaker would have charged not much less for a "full" service. Given that you're a bit uncertain about the authenticity and the 111E is definitely in need of a full service, I'd send it in to Richemont. If, however, your local watchmaker is all that much cheaper, well why not; it's a no-thrills ETA 6497 which I'm sure any competent watchmaker can service. What he/she CAN'T do is verify the _authenticity_... .


Thank you for your answer Traveller. If another expert has a different opinion on the watch, please tell.
I agree with the need of servicing and I guess the best is now to give it directly to the Panerai boutique for it. 
Regards


----------



## acorazza

Hey I'm looking into the Panerai and was wondering what you think of the movement. These are the only shots I have. 














The seller has all paperwork matching the serial numbers and seams alright but it's always good to get a second opinion. I have been debating a Panerai for some time now and after some studying I think the movement looks alright but the misaligned inca lock throws me off a little but. What do you think?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chrapril

Pre-Vendome (I have no idea if this is right) Panerai Luminor Marina. Watch belonged to my father.

Back story on this watch it was used on T.V. show WIOU 1990-1991. I have been told the OP number does not match the type of watch it should be.

In my experience with productions they are not typically getting fakes made so I'm turning this forum for help. Authentic or not?


----------



## Travelller

chrapril said:


> Pre-Vendome Panerai Luminor Marina...


:-d:-d:-d
_Pre-V, oh man... !_ I was ROFL my ass off - thanks for that |>


----------



## chrapril

Travelller said:


> :-d:-d:-d
> _Pre-V, oh man... !_ I was ROFL my ass off - thanks for that |>


I'm glad I could make you laugh. I have no problem admitting I know nothing about this watch or for that matter watches in general. That is a term I found in researching the watch and based off the time frame it made sense to my limited knowledge.
The watch belonged to my father and due to an accident he can no longer wear them.


----------



## Travelller

chrapril said:


> Pre-Vendome (I have no idea if this is right) Panerai Luminor Marina. Watch belonged to my father. Back story on this watch it was used on T.V. show WIOU 1990-1991 ... Authentic or not?


It's a fake / replica of a 1st-gen 048 which entered into production in *1999*.


chrapril said:


> ...The watch belonged to my father and due to an accident he can no longer wear them.


Chrapril FTW...

View attachment 3316098
View attachment 3316122


----------



## chrapril

Travelller said:


> It's a fake / replica of a 1st-gen 048 which entered into production in *1999*.
> Chrapril FTW...
> 
> Travellier,
> 
> Thank you for the info. The trouble I have with my dad now is I don't get straight info from him anymore. His memory is not very clear and he swears he got the watch in 1991 but I had my doubts based on the research I did. So I figured if I posted here I would get the straight scoop.
> 
> He had two watches in his collection this one and another from a different manufacture that is looking like a pretty good find. I've never been a watch guy but something about the simmental value has me wearing the two watches he had and really enjoying it.


----------



## korneevy

chrapril said:


> ...I've never been a watch guy but something about the simmental value has me wearing the two watches he had and really enjoying it.


I hope you don't wear that ....hmmm...watch, so to say. Sentimental or not, but it's the cheap junk, and you will surely be taken for a fool by folks who know their watches (and there are more of them that you know, depending on your social circles). Sorry if it sounds tough, but best is to dispose of it and never look back. Yes, it is THAT bad, trust me.


----------



## chrapril

korneevy said:


> I hope you don't wear that ....hmmm...watch, so to say. Sentimental or not, but it's the cheap junk, and you will surely be taken for a fool by folks who know their watches (and there are more of them that you know, depending on your social circles). Sorry if it sounds tough, but best is to dispose of it and never look back. Yes, it is THAT bad, trust me.


Nope no plans to wear this one. I don't run in circles that would even notice. Still fun to have because it was used in an obscure TV show in the early 90's WIOU. Again thanks for all the input. This forum has been most helpful. The other watch I was referring to was Jaeger- LeCoultre Memovox from the 60's that was authenticated and have really enjoyed learning about this world of high end watches.

It is fun to read info from people that are passionate.


----------



## JamesWWIII

One extraordinary watch collectors dream

Emailed the seller just to verify what I already knew. He claims it was a birthday gift from a friend (I'll say!) who bought the watch in LA, and no, he doesn't have the box or papers.

LMAO.


----------



## korneevy

JamesWWIII said:


> One extraordinary watch collectors dream
> 
> Emailed the seller just to verify what I already knew. He claims it was a birthday gift from a friend (I'll say!) who bought the watch in LA, and no, he doesn't have the box or papers.
> 
> LMAO.


Well at least he is honest - it's a Paneria he is selling. Which will be a great edition to a collection.


----------



## evlkoala

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Learned so much from this thread! I never knew there are this many good replicas which makes me worried about finding one from private seller.


----------



## JamesWWIII

Panerai Luminor Marina Man Watch BEAUTIFUL

Apparently, this scammer has never even bothered to do a Google image search to see what a PAM 111 actually looks like.

Or maybe he thinks he'll fool someone into thinking he's got a one-off prototype that has an automatic movement, cyclops date, and skeleton hands.


----------



## evlkoala

Can you please tell me if this PAM 183 G is real or fake ? Thanks in advance.


----------



## m630

Fake


----------



## evlkoala

m630 said:


> Fake


Thank you for confirming it. It looks off for some reason.


----------



## mat-with-one-t

Just out of interest, have people noticed the faking of outer boxes? I've not seen any as yet, but is this one pictured in the previous post, or have they found a real box to provide with a fake?


----------



## peenoise

mat-with-one-t said:


> Just out of interest, have people noticed the faking of outer boxes? I've not seen any as yet, but is this one pictured in the previous post, or have they found a real box to provide with a fake?


You can buy an original pear box then put a fake panerai to make it look legit. If you are able to sell still you have a very good profit.


----------



## evlkoala

Thanks guys for your help. 
What about this PAM 380 ? Seller purchased in 2012, pictures shows the box and papers, even the price tag, but without the outer paper box.
Like you all mentioned, everything can be real except for the watch itself which makes me very worried.

Please take a look.


----------



## MrBillsy

Certainly no expert and others can correct me, but the tag says 'base logo' yet it has a seconds complication. Doesn't base refer to a simple face with just hours and minutes only?


----------



## evlkoala

MrBillsy said:


> Certainly no expert and others can correct me, but the tag says 'base logo' yet it has a seconds complication. Doesn't base refer to a simple face with just hours and minutes only?


Good catch. I didn't even notice it!! 
hopefully experts here can explain this


----------



## Synequano

No experts here,but AFAIK there is no such thing as radiomir base logo ala zero...the base rad (210) has been discontinued for a while too

There might be a possibility that the dealer/seller didn't even notice the wrong label too?


----------



## Synequano

Just had a chance to scroll up,what was it with the fake outer box,IIRC the older pams have that blue border on the sticker as seen on the outer box of my pam 92G SE (even this did not come with pearwood box,it came with blue velvet box instead)


----------



## mat-with-one-t

John Mark Booc said:


> You can buy an original pear box then put a fake panerai to make it look legit. If you are able to sell still you have a very good profit.


Yeah I've seen this, and I reckon there may be FAKE pearwood boxes around now too, but I was referring to the OUTER cardboard box. To my knowledge I've not seen these as fakes. How would you authenticate them anyway??


----------



## airfix163

no this is a total fake papers,etc can be purchased from a replica dealer on the web for 100.00 dollars leave this alone


----------



## airfix163

the swan neck regulator looks correct the centre hand pin is recessed that cries faketo me also have not seen the hands colour combo


----------



## airfix163

god i havent see one this bad even on my recent visit to china


----------



## donpaeng

evlkoala said:


> Good catch. I didn't even notice it!!
> hopefully experts here can explain this


it's real in my opinion, just check if the COSC card matches the movement number when you open it.

with regards to the "base logo" any paneristi knows that this refers to the OP logo on the bottom of the dial for the PAM183 and PAM 005, these models are tell though that they are the cheapest model that Panerai has to offer, except for one other model, the PAM california i believe. hope this helps, but that PAM 183 has legit papers, but you can never tell till you inspect the watch properly, my advice is not to buy anything online without seeing it 1st. meet up with the seller in a botique or just buy in an AD if this is your 1st time.

ive had the unfortunate displeasure of buying a PAM112 from the gray market, i had to have it authenticated in HK botique and have the my warranty card restamped from the original AD which was then sent to europe. the watch is REAL as authenticated even with the lever a lil loose which is really odd in my opinion because my 005 and my friends 112 really has no play, but panerai did authenticate it and assured me it was 100% genuine. and the stamp im still waiting for its return. the hassle of thinking your watch is real or not is really not worth the hassle even after finding out it is in fact real unless ofcourse the price is a steal, in my case it was the SRP.

hope this helped and hope you enjoy getting a PAM. i hope to buy a 359 by the end of this year. cheers.


----------



## donpaeng

stay away from this one bud.. the movement is off. research swan neck regulator and incabloc. and the H series complimented with the 111 is the most faked model of panerai.



acorazza said:


> Hey I'm looking into the Panerai and was wondering what you think of the movement. These are the only shots I have.
> View attachment 3271194
> View attachment 3271202
> 
> 
> The seller has all paperwork matching the serial numbers and seams alright but it's always good to get a second opinion. I have been debating a Panerai for some time now and after some studying I think the movement looks alright but the misaligned inca lock throws me off a little but. What do you think?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MrBillsy

donpaeng said:


> it's real in my opinion, just check if the COSC card matches the movement number when you open it.
> 
> with regards to the "base logo" any paneristi knows that this refers to the OP logo on the bottom of the dial for the PAM183 and PAM 005, these models are tell though that they are the cheapest model that Panerai has to offer, except for one other model, the PAM california i believe. hope this helps, but that PAM 183 has legit papers, but you can never tell till you inspect the watch properly, my advice is not to buy anything online without seeing it 1st. meet up with the seller in a botique or just buy in an AD if this is your 1st time.
> 
> ive had the unfortunate displeasure of buying a PAM112 from the gray market, i had to have it authenticated in HK botique and have the my warranty card restamped from the original AD which was then sent to europe. the watch is REAL as authenticated even with the lever a lil loose which is really odd in my opinion because my 005 and my friends 112 really has no play, but panerai did authenticate it and assured me it was 100% genuine. and the stamp im still waiting for its return. the hassle of thinking your watch is real or not is really not worth the hassle even after finding out it is in fact real unless ofcourse the price is a steal, in my case it was the SRP.
> 
> hope this helped and hope you enjoy getting a PAM. i hope to buy a 359 by the end of this year. cheers.


I stand corrected and good to know! Still learning about these wonderful time pieces.


----------



## Synequano

The radiomir with logo is 380,not 183...183 is the black seal in SS


----------



## acorazza

donpaeng said:


> stay away from this one bud.. the movement is off. research swan neck regulator and incabloc. and the H series complimented with the 111 is the most faked model of panerai.


Thanks. I actually made the seller an offer but he thankfully declined and I later bought a Breitling Superocean on the forum from a reputable seller. I guess the Panerai will just have to wait for now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## evlkoala

donpaeng said:


> evlkoala said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good catch. I didn't even notice it!!
> hopefully experts here can explain this
> 
> 
> 
> it's real in my opinion, just check if the COSC card matches the movement number when you open it....
Click to expand...

Thanks Donpaeng! I will meet up with the seller at the Panerai boutique to get it verified.
Sorry to shorten your quote, just wanted quote your message to say thank you for your expert opinion and advice.


----------



## WG_John

Hi guys

need a little help with this one. Friend just offered me his Daylight but it looks kinda strange and the hands shouldn't be so yellow, after all it's supposed to be Luminova. What do you think?


----------



## m630

Need better pix of dial and ring numbers as they are not showing up at all - and both sides, it looks ok from a distance but if it's a friend why do u have to question whether it's legit? Papers /boxes anything?


----------



## WG_John

Unfortunately nothing, no box or no papers, these are the only two photos i got. He said that he got it from a Uncle from Canada (yup, i know, the familiar "story")


----------



## m630

lol, ahh the rich Canadian uncle...I'd not do it it just don't add up


----------



## Synequano

According to http://www.clubpanerai.com/index.asp?notizia=385&codice=15

OP 6637 is for luminor chrono Firenze 2005 pam 224 with blue dial and pic of their Firenze shop

So most likely it's fake


----------



## donpaeng

Synequano said:


> The radiomir with logo is 380,not 183...183 is the black seal in SS


Yup thanks for the correction.


----------



## donpaeng

evlkoala said:


> Thanks Donpaeng! I will meet up with the seller at the Panerai boutique to get it verified.
> Sorry to shorten your quote, just wanted quote your message to say thank you for your expert opinion and advice.


let us know how it goes. cheers.


----------



## JamesWWIII

WG_John said:


> Unfortunately nothing, no box or no papers, these are the only two photos i got. He said that he got it from a Uncle from Canada (yup, i know, the familiar "story")


What is your "friend" offering to sell it to you for?


----------



## WG_John

Synequano said:


> According to Club Panerai™ - Solo la storia. Al polso / Only the history. On the wrist
> 
> OP 6637 is for luminor chrono Firenze 2005 pam 224 with blue dial and pic of their Firenze shop
> 
> So most likely it's fake


Thank you, but isn't PAM 224 a OP 6630?


----------



## Synequano

This is what I got,and it's from seller that I know as legit


----------



## m630

I wouldn't go by what's on that club panerai link for the OP references ...I know it has at least one of my models listed incorrectly and simply checking the OP brand website can confirm modern numbers


----------



## JamesWWIII

OP6637 has been used on PAM 188 (the watch in question), 196, 224, 236, 250 & 251 Daylights.

I'll ask again, what is this "friend" asking for the watch? And why not ask him to accompany you to a dealer that can open the case for you?


----------



## WG_John

The thing is, my friend knows nothing about watches. I mean nothing! Not even the ball park price for Panerai models. I will get some better pics today, and will post them.
Unfortunately, the dealer is not that close to us


----------



## korneevy

WG_John said:


> The thing is, my friend knows nothing about watches. I mean nothing! Not even the ball park price for Panerai models. I will get some better pics today, and will post them.
> Unfortunately, the dealer is not that close to us


Does your "friend" know of Internet/Google? If the answer is yes, then I think it is pretty obviously a fake, else you will not be buying it for $350... Enough with those "uncles" already, that alone should set you running.


----------



## JamesWWIII

korneevy said:


> Does your "friend" know of Internet/Google? If the answer is yes, then I think it is pretty obviously a fake, else you will not be buying it for $350... Enough with those "uncles" already, that alone should set you running.


Wait...where did he say the friend was only asking $350 for it? I've asked that question more than once, and found it odd that I wasn't getting a straight answer. If that's accurate, then yes, it's a total fake. Only an idiot would fail to do a two-second Google search before selling a watch to someone. How would he even have arrived at $350 as a price? Why not $100?


----------



## korneevy

JamesWWIII said:


> Wait...where did he say the friend was only asking $350 for it? I've asked that question more than once, and found it odd that I wasn't getting a straight answer. If that's accurate, then yes, it's a total fake. Only an idiot would fail to do a two-second Google search before selling a watch to someone. How would he even have arrived at $350 as a price? Why not $100?


I've made some assumptions here, admittedly, as I've heard this story too many times to care for little detail. Plus that Japanese whisky from last night made type it. Just kidding...


----------



## Satansfist

Locomotivebreath said:


> "Help us make better replicas, please."


lol If you honestly believe the replica factories are on here looking for tips on how to make their watches better...

Even if it IS only 1 in 5 of the guys posting here genuinely looking for help I'd like to think we could do it and give them the reasoning behind it. You know, help educate those who are really interested in not getting taken for a ride. I do realise most who are never seen again are likely trying to find out if they could pass their fake off in a sale or maybe in the boardroom, but if I can help one guy then I'm happy to. And explain why I have my opinion one way or the other.


----------



## WG_John

Guys i didn't say anything about a price because i don't know it. He asked me if i would be interested. That was it. I told him that i would check the authenticity of the Panerai, and then we can discuss the price.


----------



## JamesWWIII

WG_John said:


> Guys i didn't say anything about a price because i don't know it. He asked me if i would be interested. That was it. I told him that i would check the authenticity of the Panerai, and then we can discuss the price.


Well, if you really want to check the authenticity of the watch, you better take it to someone who knows what they are looking at and have them open that sucker up. With no box or papers, just asking questions on an internet forum is the bare minimum of due diligence.


----------



## watchfreak561

Tell me what do we think about about this watch? I'm interested in buying. It's paypal transaction.


----------



## m630

Horrible fake


----------



## Synequano

That looks nice but it's fake...I do hope Panerai make something like that though...P5000 movt with DLC'd 44 mm luminor case


----------



## m630

Synequano said:


> ...I do hope Panerai make something like that though...P5000 movt with DLC'd 44 mm luminor case


 Yup, and they already have it ready, they need to offer the 785 as a standard model and that is exactly those specs...


----------



## AJuvan77

Hi all. About to purchase my first Pam, a 305 face to face. Researched quite a bit about this model and to me looks ok but want some other opinions. Thank you!


----------



## m630

What does the OP number say, can't read it well in the pix. Also, was any details given on the buckle, it does not appear to be original as its not branded? It is titanium, correct? Can't tell from pix


----------



## AJuvan77

M630, can't read the OP unfortunately and those are the only pics I have gotten so far. Was told that it was purchased in Jan 2014 and only worn once. Yes, its titanium. Haven't seen it in person yet. Was going to meet him tomorrow. Box, tools and extra strap are included along with warranty card from the AD in Turkey.


----------



## m630

I would ask for clear pix so you can try to confirm as best as possible,especially of the movement which is harder-but not impossible- to fake. I'd ask about the buckle and whether it was changed as it's not orig from what I can tell, it should be branded. You should ask if was bought new and if was serviced- it appears that the back was open so you should ask why if was bought new and only worn once. Also, from what I can see, the OP# does not match the corporate sites numbering-now perhaps something changed at OP that caused them to change this number, but it's not usually the case


----------



## Lt.Dan

Hi everyone, can you help me find if is a real one or a fake, the guys dont have the paper... thanks


----------



## Wlover

Synequano said:


> That looks nice but it's fake...I do hope Panerai make something like that though...P5000 movt with DLC'd 44 mm luminor case


599...


----------



## Satansfist

Lt.Dan said:


> Hi everyone, can you help me find if is a real one or a fake, the guys dont have the paper...
> View attachment 3674786


Looks good to me and that bit of paper should boost your confidence a little if it is what I think it is (receipt for a service from Panerai?).


----------



## Lt.Dan

Yeah but the seller on ebay dont respond to my message so its dont deserve trust and time thanks you for responding to my answer!


----------



## PBR1

Been lurking for a very long time. Looking at my first Panerai. Fellow WUS member has this up for sale, is it authentic?

https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fsot-panerai-176-titanium-complete-1795490.html#post15264410


----------



## frustin

Lt.Dan said:


> Hi everyone, can you help me find if is a real one or a fake, the guys dont have the paper... thanks
> 
> View attachment 3674762


I'm no expert, but i've been through all 60+ pages of theses fakes thread and that bit with the two screws looks dodgy. They should be centralised relative to the metal they are screwed into. Those in the pictures are too near the edge.


----------



## Will3020

PBR1 said:


> Been lurking for a very long time. Looking at my first Panerai. Fellow WUS member has this up for sale, is it authentic?
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fsot-panerai-176-titanium-complete-1795490.html#post15264410


the real deal |>


----------



## evlkoala

Can you please help me out on this PAM 48 ? Does it look legit?


----------



## PBR1

Calling all the PAM guru's!!!

I'm looking at my first PAM, want to know it this one is authentic or fake.

Panerai Luminor Marina Titanium Mens Watch Model 177 OP6572 Movement | eBay


----------



## alpkop

frustin said:


> I'm no expert, but i've been through all 60+ pages of theses fakes thread and that bit with the two screws looks dodgy. They should be centralised relative to the metal they are screwed into. Those in the pictures are too near the edge.


yes there is trouble on those screws:


----------



## bull17

Dear all,

I found it in the Internet (PAM312) for selling, but what worries me is that the serial number in the back does not start with BB or PB. I hope you can see the original size pic here attached. To me it seems to start with SM, SV or SY ...
Shall it always be BB or PB? What do these abbrevs stand for?
Any thoughts? Fake?

Many thx,


----------



## tapineagleputt

Bumping post #686 which, while not my own, pertains to a PAM48 I'm now looking at. It's an H series, but the dial says "L Swiss L" instead of "L Swiss Made L". I understand that only the G series had "L Swiss L"

Any thoughts are appreciated!

Here's a link to the original post if you don't want to scroll up 3 posts: https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/panerai-real-thread-802260-69.html#post15759514

Here's a link to the current ad on TZ: TimeZone : Sales Corner » FS Panerai PAM00048


----------



## frustin

tapineagleputt said:


> Bumping post #686 which, while not my own, pertains to a PAM48 I'm now looking at. It's an H series, but the dial says "L Swiss L" instead of "L Swiss Made L". I understand that only the G series had "L Swiss L"
> 
> Any thoughts are appreciated!
> 
> Here's a link to the original post if you don't want to scroll up 3 posts: https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/panerai-real-thread-802260-69.html#post15759514
> 
> Here's a link to the current ad on TZ: TimeZone : Sales Corner » FS Panerai PAM00048


Looks ok, looking around on chrono24, there's this one which is 2005: Panerai LUMINOR MARINA for $5,122 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24 which is 2005 and shows L Swiss L.

This one which is supposed to be 2001 Panerai Luminor Marina for $4,378 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24 also has L Swiss L (its hard to make out but on one of the pics the words are underneath the six as opposed to surrounding it).

Heres another with L Swiss L and it's 2003: Panerai "LUMINOR MARINA" PAM00048 - E45../5000... for $5,141 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24

Then there is a 2006 which shows the L Swiss Made L. Panerai Luminor Marina Automatic 40mm Watch Pam48 Box&Papers for $5,500 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24

Perhaps then your information is slightly inaccurate in that it's 2005 and older that have L Swiss L and 2006 and newer with the L Swiss Made L.

I'm of the opinion that if it is fake, it is a bloody good fake, but i'm more inclined to think that it's real. You could try and find another 2005 with the number made for that year and see if it matches up.


----------



## tapineagleputt

Thanks, Frustin. Not sure whether you think it's a good fake or real, but the Chrono24 research is certainly appreciated.


----------



## mfrattone

Hello all. I am thinking of making my first purchase from a non AD. I am about to pull the trigger on the PAM 127 that's being offered by Essential Watches. I have read good things about them, but the watch has no box or papers. The owner has sent the watch to the local Panerai dealer who has given an estimate to service the watch. Essential Watches says the fact that the Panerai dealer will service is a guaranty of authenticity. I am looking for some guidance. The only pictures sent to me are the ones above. Many thanks for the help.


----------



## frustin

mfrattone;1666[ATTACH=CONFIG said:


> 4190402[/ATTACH]
> 
> Hello all. I am thinking of making my first purchase from a non AD. I am about to pull the trigger on the PAM 127 that's being offered by Essential Watches. I have read good things about them, but the watch has no box or papers. The owner has sent the watch to the local Panerai dealer who has given an estimate to service the watch. Essential Watches says the fact that the Panerai dealer will service is a guaranty of authenticity. I am looking for some guidance. The only pictures sent to me are the ones above. Many thanks for the help.


I'm no expert but i think that one looks good. The bits (that can be seen on the movement also look good. Lovely watch. i love the golden hands and black face.


----------



## frustin

tapineagleputt said:


> Thanks, Frustin. Not sure whether you think it's a good fake or real, but the Chrono24 research is certainly appreciated.


Sorry about that, i've made an update to clarify my opinion.


----------



## korneevy

mfrattone said:


> View attachment 4190378
> View attachment 4190386
> View attachment 4190394
> View attachment 4190402
> 
> 
> Hello all. I am thinking of making my first purchase from a non AD. I am about to pull the trigger on the PAM 127 that's being offered by Essential Watches. I have read good things about them, but the watch has no box or papers. The owner has sent the watch to the local Panerai dealer who has given an estimate to service the watch. Essential Watches says the fact that the Panerai dealer will service is a guaranty of authenticity. I am looking for some guidance. The only pictures sent to me are the ones above. Many thanks for the help.


It's a highly collectable watch and you will be much better off if bought it as a full set. With prices crashing, it pays to shop around as you will likely to get one with boxes, papers etc for around $15-18K easily, just invest time and it will pay off. It's not a layman Panerai, and having as a package is important for serious collectors who will likely to be your potential buyer when time comes to sell in the future


----------



## Billsamson

First time caller, long time listener here. After a long time on the sidelines, I decided to join the club recently. The route I took to get there is a little unconventional. I had a credit with a local store here in town, but they were not an authorized dealer. Kindly, one of the associates told me that they have a relationship with another store that may be an authorized dealer. To my delight, the other store was an authorized dealer and order a PAM00392. It took longer than expected, and the arrival of the watch was pushed back a couple of times, but it arrived a few days ago. It came packaged with 3 boxes, the cardboard, the black box, and the wood box. It came with all of the necessary paper work I believe. I have no particular reason to suspect it is not authentic, other than going through a 3rd party, and the length of time it took to get here. However, the quality of 392 "replicas" out there concern me a bit and wanted to get a second opinion, considering it wasn't bought literally through an authorized dealer. Could I post a picture of the replica that concerns me, or would that be against site rules?

Sorry the pictures aren't great. Any thoughts here? I really appreciate the help!!

View attachment 4273570


View attachment 4273586









View attachment 4273618

View attachment 4273626


----------



## shnjb

I sort know too much about this model but that movement finishing just looks like crap.
I hope that's not a real Panerai, considering it probably should cost $8000+.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Fake
A


----------



## Billsamson

You guys referring to the 392 I asked advice on? If there is something wrong with it, I'd appreciate it if you guys pointed it out as I've looked at an "authentic" photo compared to the one posted and can't find anything. The serial numbers seem to check out, it's an "R," has all the paperwork, boxes, bar codes, etc. The place I got it from is an AD of Rolex and got it from a Panerai AD in Miami. Should I cross reference the Miami store or call Panerai? Personally I don't see any red flags, so if you guys see some please let me know. I would really appreciate it.


----------



## frustin

Billsamson said:


> You guys referring to the 392 I asked advice on? If there is something wrong with it, I'd appreciate it if you guys pointed it out as I've looked at an "authentic" photo compared to the one posted and can't find anything. The serial numbers seem to check out, it's an "R," has all the paperwork, boxes, bar codes, etc. The place I got it from is an AD of Rolex and got it from a Panerai AD in Miami. Should I cross reference the Miami store or call Panerai? Personally I don't see any red flags, so if you guys see some please let me know. I would really appreciate it.


Imo it looks ok, doing a side-by-side of another via google. It could be a very good fake. Your pictures arent great it has to be said, which makes the movement look rough, but the 2nd one down looks ok.

I'd be very interested to hear why people think it's fake.


----------



## Billsamson

I'll try to upload better pictures. I'd be surprised if it was a fake, as I paid close to retail for it from an rather reputable dealer, who told me the AD it came from. If it's not real, they committed fraud. Like I said, it came with all the necessary paper work. The serials numbers on the cardboard box match the serial numbers in the identification book, which match the serial numbers on the watch. It would be a pretty sophisticated fake if so. Any help would be very much appreciated!!


----------



## Billsamson

I appreciate the responses. I have attached some more photos for consideration. I don't have a very good camera. If they still aren't good enough, I can track down a more high quality camera. I spoke with Panerai today, and ran the numbers by them. They said the serial numbers checked out, but obviously they can can be duplicated. My last option is to send it to Ft. Worth for service for them to check out, but that would be a real crapper considering I just got it. But, if that's the route you guys think I should go, I'll do so.

Again, I appreciate all of the help here!

View attachment 4337817






View attachment 4337881


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hi
Then my bad
If Panrerai say the serial number is legit, then I doubt yours is a fake.
I took it on the lack of the swan neck adjuster on the balance wheel.
I should have researched it more.
My bad - apologies.
Adam


----------



## Billsamson

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Hi
> Then my bad
> If Panrerai say the serial number is legit, then I doubt yours is a fake.
> I took it on the lack of the swan neck adjuster on the balance wheel.
> I should have researched it more.
> My bad - apologies.
> Adam


I appreciate your consideration. They say that the serial number is representative of the pam392 and checks out in their system, but it could always be a copy of an authentic number. The fact that it is an "R" which is 2015 helps the authenticity I think. It would be a very crafty replica if not, considering how all the numbers match up. The level of detail in the presentation helps I believe, in terms of the cardboard box, booklets, etc. They all match up with how "authentic" Panerai are sold.


----------



## Synequano

Just knew that the current 392 comes with rubber strap...bought one as a gift in 2013 and it only came with black croc with thumbnail buckle


----------



## Billsamson

Synequano said:


> Just knew that the current 392 comes with rubber strap...bought one as a gift in 2013 and it only came with black croc with thumbnail buckle


Yeah, it's unfortunate that the 392 does not come with a rubber strap. I'd be curious to know why it doesn't.


----------



## Synequano

IIRC all 40 and 42 mm Luminors never came with rubber,you have to pay extra for rubber strap,and it's even more ridiculous because they actually include the screwdriver set in the box 

But at least it's not as bad as a radiomir...I was surprised when I got my 339 with the huge LE box but no accessories whatsoever


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Billsamson said:


> I appreciate your consideration. They say that the serial number is representative of the pam392 and checks out in their system, but it could always be a copy of an authentic number. The fact that it is an "R" which is 2015 helps the authenticity I think. It would be a very crafty replica if not, considering how all the numbers match up. The level of detail in the presentation helps I believe, in terms of the cardboard box, booklets, etc. They all match up with how "authentic" Panerai are sold.


I agree totally
Your piece is genuine.
Once again, my apologies


----------



## Billsamson

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I agree totally
> Your piece is genuine.
> Once again, my apologies


No worries at all. I'm coming to the same conclusion I believe. Everything matches up nicely with the paperwork and presentation, and I think it checks out upon comparison with Panerai's "official" photos.

Thanks so much for taking the time to help authenticate!


----------



## Billsamson

Synequano said:


> IIRC all 40 and 42 mm Luminors never came with rubber,you have to pay extra for rubber strap,and it's even more ridiculous because they actually include the screwdriver set in the box
> 
> But at least it's not as bad as a radiomir...I was surprised when I got my 339 with the huge LE box but no accessories whatsoever


Hahaha, that's true. They provide a screwdriver but no extra strap. Oh well.


----------



## Champion

Quick Question everyone,
I just found something odd about the paperwork on the PAM48 I just purchased.
The COSC Certificate shows that the movement was done in 07-08-2013, but on another sticker it shows that it was Swiss Made this year, 18/03/15.
So it appears the movement was done prior to the watch was put together about 1.5 years before hand?
Is this normal? This is a "R" Serial # PAM48.


----------



## frustin

Champion said:


> Quick Question everyone,
> I just found something odd about the paperwork on the PAM48 I just purchased.
> The COSC Certificate shows that the movement was done in 07-08-2013, but on another sticker it shows that it was Swiss Made this year, 18/03/15.
> So it appears the movement was done prior to the watch was put together about 1.5 years before hand?
> Is this normal? This is a "R" Serial # PAM48.


pictures speak louder


----------



## airfix163

no watch is replica as are the papers which can be purchased online avoid


----------



## Donperry

Hey guys I'm new here, could you help ID a Panerai I've been given? Cheers


----------



## R1P

Donperry said:


> Hey guys I'm new here, could you help ID a Panerai I've been given? Cheers


Pictures would help...and more of the story too. Usually one is not 'given' a PAM


----------



## Kyff45

Hi I was hoping if any of you Panerai experts could help me out I have an opportunity to get a Panerai watch from an acquaintance of mine he would like to trade me for an antique firearm. any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## korneevy

Kyff45 said:


> Hi I was hoping if any of you Panerai experts could help me out I have an opportunity to get a Panerai watch from an acquaintance of mine he would like to trade me for an antique firearm. any help would be greatly appreciated.
> View attachment 4457146
> View attachment 4457154
> View attachment 4457162
> View attachment 4457170


Depends on the firearm in question - it it is made in China by underage kids and valued at less than $100, you get yourself a deal. Otherwise - run away.


----------



## shnjb

Everyone, most used Panerais go for a minimum of $3000 and usually a lot more (above $6000)
Among most social circles, one is not given gifts or offered lopsided exchanges of such monetary value.

Surely you must know that the watch is fake? or are you all just fabricating stories in hopes that your fake will pass the "can I share on Instagram" test?


----------



## Kyff45

Korneevy, thank you for your advice I will definitely use it and stay away from this one .

Kyff



korneevy said:


> Depends on the firearm in question - it it is made in China by underage kids and valued at less than $100, you get yourself a deal. Otherwise - run away.


----------



## Kyff45

Duplicate


----------



## Kyff45

Shirley, I must not know the watch is fake that's why am asking for people that know more than I do to verify it. obviously you must know the value of everything about everything so I guess you know the value of a marlin take down Lever action in 25/20 with 95% original finish ,made a early 1900s. Do you need a picture of the rifle I can post one so you can confirm that this not a story. It's unfortunate that you must assume that everybody's a thief but there are honest people out there just trying to protect themselves from scammers .

regards Kyff



shnjb said:


> Everyone, most used Panerais go for a minimum of $3000 and usually a lot more (above $6000)
> Among most social circles, one is not given gifts or offered lopsided exchanges of such monetary value.
> 
> Surely you must know that the watch is fake? or are you all just fabricating stories in hopes that your fake will pass the "can I share on Instagram" test?


----------



## senna89wc12

I was tempted by this Panerai 111 on Ebay. The watch looks legit. However, after doing some research I now have doubt about it. First of all, the Ebay seller claims that he doesn't have any paper or documents to support the authenicity of this watch. The only thing he has is an invoice from a Jewelry shop where he got the watch from. Another thing is that there are no certificates or box.

Here is a few pictures of the watch:





























I think there is something wrong with the lug bars. Something is not right. Also, the movement of this watch gives it away. Take a look at the Incabloc. Sure the Incabloc is Y-shaped, but the shape of the lyre spring (the golden piece) tells me that this watch is fake.

Take a look:















Here is a movement photo of the genuine watch:









The lyre-spring. Fake vs real
View attachment 4483514









I will not go for it. The movement of the watch worries me. Please give your opinion. Thanks.


----------



## shnjb

senna89wc12 said:


> I was tempted by this Panerai 111 on Ebay. The watch looks legit. However, after doing some research I now have doubt about it. First of all, the Ebay seller claims that he doesn't have any paper or documents to support the authenicity of this watch. The only thing he has is an invoice from a Jewelry shop where he got the watch from. Another thing is that there are no certificates or box.
> 
> Here is a few pictures of the watch:
> 
> View attachment 4483426
> 
> View attachment 4483434
> View attachment 4483442
> 
> View attachment 4483458
> 
> 
> I don't see any problems in those pictures.
> 
> However, I think the movement of this watch gives it away. Take a look at the Incabloc. Sure it has the Incabloc is Y-shaped, but the shape of the lyre spring (the golden piece) tells me that this watch is fake.
> 
> Take a look:
> 
> View attachment 4483482
> View attachment 4483490
> 
> 
> Here is a movement photo of the genuine watch:
> 
> View attachment 4483498
> 
> 
> The lyre-spring. Fake vs real
> View attachment 4483514
> 
> View attachment 4483506
> 
> View attachment 4483538
> 
> 
> What do you think? Should I go for it? I probably won't after seeing all these pictures. The movement of the watch worries me. Please give your opinion. Thanks.


The metal surrounding the screws of the swan neck looks fake to me (6th picture).
It's different from the seventh pic.


----------



## senna89wc12

shnjb said:


> The metal surrounding the screws of the swan neck looks fake to me (6th picture).
> It's different from the seventh pic.


I agree. The two silver screws on the Incabloc are too close to the edge. Definitely a fake one.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Good Points
I am not sure what the guy is doing here, but this is an exact example of OP watch

111 is done... - The Panerai Area - RWG Forum


----------



## Billsamson

Kyff45 said:


> Korneevy, thank you for your advice I will definitely use it and stay away from this one .
> 
> Kyff


Yeah, that's 100% fake.


----------



## Dyland321

Having a hard time finding this watch online. Really hesitant to buy because seller does not have box or papers. Any help is appreciated.














__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## shnjb

Dyland321 said:


> Having a hard time finding this watch online. Really hesitant to buy because seller does not have box or papers. Any help is appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 4500690
> View attachment 4500698
> View attachment 4500714


Where is the sale? Who's selling and for how much?
Why would you ever buy a watch more than $6000 based on ****ty pictures and no box or papers?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

And based on your being a 6553, I searched and could not see an exact match
Back case on other marked AUTOMATIC

Dials had no lumed dots.
Look here
https://www.google.com/search?q=pan...nor+firenze+1860+OP6553&imgrc=jvnet512WXOVSM:

Needs more research
A


----------



## darth_xyko

Billsamson said:


> I appreciate the responses. I have attached some more photos for consideration. I don't have a very good camera. If they still aren't good enough, I can track down a more high quality camera. I spoke with Panerai today, and ran the numbers by them. They said the serial numbers checked out, but obviously they can can be duplicated. My last option is to send it to Ft. Worth for service for them to check out, but that would be a real crapper considering I just got it. But, if that's the route you guys think I should go, I'll do so.
> 
> Again, I appreciate all of the help here!
> 
> View attachment 4337817
> View attachment 4336041
> View attachment 4337881
> View attachment 4336049
> View attachment 4336025
> View attachment 4336057
> View attachment 4336033


This im sure its a real deal, not fake.


----------



## Richard1968

Hi guys, I wonder if you could advise me on this Panerai watch I was offered as an exchange object from a guy I know quit well. No documents, no paperwork available (Got stolen from his house together with the rest of his expensive watch collection)

I believe this is the Luminor Base PAM00390 limited edition with tobacco dial and gold hands. After checking so many websites and various forums I cannot detect anything that leads me to thinking this is a fake one. I hope you guys could shed some light on this. These are my own, home made pictures

A few questions:

- Is this genuine and if not, why?
- What could be the approximate value (if genuine) with no paperwork?
- How to get a formal proof of authencity? (I went to 2 Panerai dealers in my home town but they did not want to assist)
- Would there be some kind of register of "stolen" watches as I don't want to be suspect of fencing.

Thanks in advance for your time


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

OK
I was interested why case back is a OP 6834 and you state a OP390

I found this info, so seems it could be either:
HOROLOGY CRAZY: Interesting case backs....

But the case back of 390, the 'logo' is on the case back and not the dial
But all marked 6834
Yours seems to be an OP00390 - OK

Here is another genuine back and marked like yours
https://www.google.com/search?q=PAN...isch&q=PANERAI+OP+00390&imgrc=73rbZ7cFNnG0aM:

Your dial and case look good (genuine) but so are the fakes, that use the Seagul movement, I would want photos of the movement prior to purchase
I hope that helps
Adam


----------



## Synequano

Does the guy also into straps? Since pam 390 should come with asso instead of kodiak strap,I know it's changeable but if he's not really into changing straps,it can be a sign

And I second the movement pic,especially the incabloc part

If it's real,boxless 390 should cost in line with the zero,yes it is a boutique edition but without proper documentation,it will be more difficult to sell down the line (even with boxes,storing it will be a pain)


----------



## Billsamson

darth_xyko said:


> This im sure its a real deal, not fake.


Many thanks!


----------



## darth_xyko

mate, thats the canal street fake, look at the canon pinion, ugly CG, raised CG pin, those ugly hands, raised lume dial and to be honest everything about this piece screams fake. one word man, STAY AWAY

this is gen selling on chrono24 for comparison
http://www.chrono24.com/en/panerai/pam-390-luminor-special-edition-tobacco-dial-gold-hands-44mm--id3432710.htm?urlSubpath=/panerai/ref-pam00390.htm&referenceNumber=pam00390$192&manufacturerIds=192



Richard1968 said:


> Hi guys, I wonder if you could advise me on this Panerai watch I was offered as an exchange object from a guy I know quit well. No documents, no paperwork available (Got stolen from his house together with the rest of his expensive watch collection)
> 
> I believe this is the Luminor Base PAM00390 limited edition with tobacco dial and gold hands. After checking so many websites and various forums I cannot detect anything that leads me to thinking this is a fake one. I hope you guys could shed some light on this. These are my own, home made pictures
> 
> A few questions:
> 
> - Is this genuine and if not, why?
> - What could be the approximate value (if genuine) with no paperwork?
> - How to get a formal proof of authencity? (I went to 2 Panerai dealers in my home town but they did not want to assist)
> - Would there be some kind of register of "stolen" watches as I don't want to be suspect of fencing.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your time
> 
> View attachment 4732306
> View attachment 4732314
> View attachment 4732322
> View attachment 4732330
> View attachment 4732338
> View attachment 4732346
> View attachment 4732354


----------



## darth_xyko

Billsamson said:


> Many thanks!


No problem mate, glad to help


----------



## Richard1968

darth_xyko said:


> mate, thats the canal street fake, look at the canon pinion, ugly CG, raised CG pin, those ugly hands, raised lume dial and to be honest everything about this piece screams fake. one word man, STAY AWAY


Interesting, 2 positives and 1 negative ... who is the best expert of them all?

I guess I'll need to have the backcase opened and make some pics of the clockwork, and post them to this superbe board, to determine if the watch is a genuine one or not at all...

Any more experts who can shed their light on this?

Tnx for all !
Cheers
Richard


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Richard1968 said:


> Interesting, 2 positives and 1 negative ... who is the best expert of them all?
> 
> I guess I'll need to have the backcase opened and make some pics of the clockwork, and post them to this superbe board, to determine if the watch is a genuine one or not at all...
> 
> Any more experts who can shed their light on this?
> 
> Tnx for all !
> Cheers
> Richard


I think Darth is correct.
I re-looked after his post, and all his points looked correct to me.
So a movement photo would confirm it, but in this case I bow to Darth 
adam


----------



## darth_xyko

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I think Darth is correct.
> I re-looked after his post, and all his points looked correct to me.
> So a movement photo would confirm it, but in this case I bow to Darth
> adam


Thanks Adam comment from u mean a lot to me

And OP please definitely do check the movement and take pics as much as u can and post them up here. I hate people selling fakes as genuine really

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

darth_xyko said:


> Thanks Adam comment from u mean a lot to me
> 
> And OP please definitely do check the movement and take pics as much as u can and post them up here. I hate people selling fakes as genuine really
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Credit, where credits due.
I was too busy looking at the the case!!!
The raised crown pin and the center hand shafts are terrible!

Kudos to you
a


----------



## apexiturbodsm

Hi Everyone!

I picked up my first Pam last week. I bought it through ebay, but it was from First Jewelry Source / Edmar Fine Jewelry in Scottsdale AZ. They've had some great reviews over on Rolex forum and the watch looked great so I did a lot of research before pulling the trigger. As far as I can tell, everything says legit. The seller is known and liked to others in Scottsdale, the watch had everything with it (movement sticker, stickers w/ SN and mvmt number, warranty card w/ SN, booklets, tripple boxes, COSC cert with matching movt sticker, etc etc) and was in great condition. The ONLY thing that gets me even the SLIGHTEST concerned is the edition: 0035/2000. It's not the infamous "H" series, as this is an "O" series from 2012 (stickers and COSC confirm 2012 production). I'm 95% sure it's just coincidence, as this looks nothing like the old fake H0035 watches, and if they were going to revamp their replica so well, they'd be silly not to change a (known) fake numbering... but alas, the 0035/2000 gives me *slight* pause. I took it to the local AD today but they don't offer authentication services. They even sent me to another jeweler for my insurance appraisal... kind of silly really. Guy there didn't even look at it with any type of detail.

As I said, I've done lots of my own research and from my seat everything looks great. But I paid around $4,600 for it so I just want to get a few more sets of eyeballs on it. I already bought some new straps... I think I have the sickness and this is only the start of my Panerai fever. I already own a Zenith, Tag, and Omega, but I think the Panerai might be my favorite. Especially on the red strap! It's so versitile... it can be dressed up or down really easily and has a really classic appearance. Loving it so far 

Here are the pictures.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

100% genuine in my opinion
Fantastic piece ENJOY
Adam


----------



## darth_xyko

I agreed with horologist007, everything looks spot on and movement looks really good especially swan neck screams its genuine article. Its a real deal not fake 100% sure too


----------



## acorazza

Hey guys wondering if I can have your opinion on this 112. Nothing looks suspicious to me but a second opinion is always welcome. 


























Thanks
-Anthony

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Very poor photos
Movement looks OK, my concern is the crown stud on the underside, it should be more flush, yours looks very recessed which is typical on the fakes.
I can tell nothing from dial photo.
Regards
adam


----------



## jamezl

Hi everyone, I just bought an alligator panerai strap from eBay and I was wondering if any of you can help authenticate this item for me.































It looks pretty authentic to me, it's just that the stitching on the back side of the strap is on a slight angle whereas my other OEM strap it's straight. Thank you!


----------



## I dogleg

Hello!
Please help me to understand if these ones are fake and why?


----------



## T1meout

I dogleg said:


> Hello!
> Please help me to understand if these ones are fake and why?


Absolute fake. No doubt about it.


----------



## darth_xyko

I dogleg said:


> Hello!
> Please help me to understand if these ones are fake and why?


Its a cheap canal street fake. Go search P9000 Panerai movement on google and compare yourself. You will get your answer for why.


----------



## maddog71

Looking at this and need some help with validation especially the scroll pic. Don't know if any one has a scroll from a SE and the writing is in ball point ink versus the usual marker that I am used to. Your thought please.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sirnonz

I'm thinking about adding this one to my collection, everything looks good to me but I'm no expert.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-panerai-pam111-n-series-luminor-marina-clear-caseback-2262681.html


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

maddog71 said:


> Looking at this and need some help with validation especially the scroll pic. Don't know if any one has a scroll from a SE and the writing is in ball point ink versus the usual marker that I am used to. Your thought please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From Dial, case back and crown, I would say that watch is genuine.
Sorry I dont have a certificate, but if serial numbers tie up, I would feel very safe.

If the warranty card has the AD name, give them a call.

Let us know
a


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

sirnonz said:


> I'm thinking about adding this one to my collection, everything looks good to me but I'm no expert.
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-panerai-pam111-n-series-luminor-marina-clear-caseback-2262681.html


I only have one concern
The pin on the crown lock, does not look perfectly flush.
I studied two Panerai watches in past days and the pin was perfectly flush and perfectly fitting. It looked really exact and professionally made.
Maybe the sellers pictures but in the 6th photo it just looks poor.
Dial, case look perfect, movement picture not great, I like to see a close up of balance wheel and swan neck regulator, but what I can see looks ok

Maybe others can comment

A


----------



## sirnonz

Here are the requested pictures.


----------



## ridley

sirnonz said:


> Here are the requested pictures.


From those photo's I would say fake.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

sirnonz said:


> Here are the requested pictures.


OK
My suspicion is confirmed - Fake

Look at the two screws beside the regulator on the cock.
These should be neatly centered not cut to one side.
That is very typical on the fakes.

So that plus the crown stud (pin) which is even worse on the movement shot = FAKE


----------



## sirnonz

Thanks for all your help but I unfortunately bought the watch before the response I got in here and it turns out to be fake, and here's why so everyone can learn from my mistake.

real:








replica: 
center pin holding the second hand is off and off centered










real:









fake: 
The gold y incabloc is off and is facing the wrong way without the correct curved cutout

The swan neck does not connect to the regulator

The 2 regulator screws are off and not centered and very close to the edge

The officine panerai blue logo is printed on instead of engraved on


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

As I thought the movement regulator really gave it away, and the general finish like the crown guard pin.
i hope you can get your money back


----------



## Billsamson

Damn, I'm sorry to hear that you purchased it. Have you contacted the seller? If so, any explanation? Any recourse? 

It's a shame that someone would do. If you do not get your money back, I would take legal action. $4k is enough, in my opinion, to warrant a cause of action.


----------



## sirnonz

I emailed, text and called with no response. I paid in cash as well, bummer. Hopefully he does the right thing and return my money, I even offered to take a slight loss on it and compensate him some cash if he'll take the watch back.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

sirnonz said:


> I emailed, text and called with no response. I paid in cash as well, bummer. Hopefully he does the right thing and return my money, I even offered to take a slight loss on it and compensate him some cash if he'll take the watch back.


i am Sorry to say, I think you have no chance to that.
You have been scammed, and only action is legal


----------



## Billsamson

Damn, I'm really sorry to hear this. I've said it once, and I'll say it again -- Panerai, Rolex, etc. need to be more proactive in ensuring authenticity. I know their argument is that the only way to ensure authenticity is to buy new from an AD, but that is just not practical. Watches this expensive get sold after purchase from an AD all the time, and these companies I believe need to do more to ensure that people don't get scammed. An authentication database would do wonders I think.

As an attorney, if I were in this situation I would pursue criminal and civil action. Any chance you have the persons name? Address? Bank information? What happened was fraud, and you have recourse. Again, I'm sorry that you are in this situation.


----------



## sirnonz

All I have to go with is an email address (also his paypal email), phone number and name. He has also deleted his for sale thread but luckily I have screen shot it prior so I still have all those in my computer. I have filed a report with the IC3 which is a government website that deals with online fraud and they will give the information to the FBI in my area. I have also requested to have his IP address from the owner of this website to hopefully help with the efforts of finding him as I'm sure they have the technology to find out where he is.

Also, I don't believe sellers should be able to modify or delete their sales ad in general.

here is the cached thread if he thinks deleting it will make it disappear from the internet

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...eback-2262681.html+&cd=22&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Good luck, keep us updated, don't give up fighting.
a


----------



## sirnonz

The seller emailed me, stating I am now the scammer because I didn't have time to meet him at the jeweler and that I swapped out the movements of the watch to try to scam him because I am willing to loose some money for him to take it back. He did in my opinion believe the watch was a legitimate to begin with when selling it to me. He is still not willing to take the watch back and told me sell it as a real one.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

What he believes is irrelevant, watch is a fake, and he must return your money.
your proof is the photos you posted here, with myself and others clearly stating a fake.
that was before you had the watch

demand your money back
name and shame
a


----------



## Billsamson

sirnonz said:


> All I have to go with is an email address (also his paypal email), phone number and name. He has also deleted his for sale thread but luckily I have screen shot it prior so I still have all those in my computer. I have filed a report with the IC3 which is a government website that deals with online fraud and they will give the information to the FBI in my area. I have also requested to have his IP address from the owner of this website to hopefully help with the efforts of finding him as I'm sure they have the technology to find out where he is.
> 
> Also, I don't believe sellers should be able to modify or delete their sales ad in general.
> 
> here is the cached thread if he thinks deleting it will make it disappear from the internet
> 
> FS- Panerai PAM111 N Series Luminor Marina Clear Caseback


I think you have decent information on your hands to pursue recourse. Paypal is a good place to start. Hopefully you know where the person lives and can track down where he/she works. If you have his name and address you can drag him/her into court.

Please keep us updated as to your progress.


----------



## T1meout

Billsamson said:


> Damn, I'm really sorry to hear this. I've said it once, and I'll say it again -- Panerai, Rolex, etc. need to be more proactive in ensuring authenticity. I know their argument is that the only way to ensure authenticity is to buy new from an AD, but that is just not practical. Watches this expensive get sold after purchase from an AD all the time, and these companies I believe need to do more to ensure that people don't get scammed. An authentication database would do wonders I think.
> 
> As an attorney, if I were in this situation I would pursue criminal and civil action. Any chance you have the persons name? Address? Bank information? What happened was fraud, and you have recourse. Again, I'm sorry that you are in this situation.


This topic has been argued ad nauseum before. Watch manufacturers like any other business venture are in it to make money, and not to police the used market which doesn't benefit them in the slightest.

Sirnoz I'm sorry for your loss. Unfortunately this is the risk you took. I hope it all works out in your favor. Good luck.


----------



## sirnonz

The seller has started responding to me more frequently but still have not accepted to take the watch back as he can't get a hold of the person he bought it from, He states that he has no use of the watch and it will be a hard resale since there might be a chance it's fake. I am still trying to get at least partial of my money back as I will not knowingly wear a fake watch.


----------



## rolex116509rb

Howdy y'all I was wondering what you experts think of this watch I am a bit skeptical to pull the plug on it but the seller says he will meet in a banl and the back is open caseback,it looks ok to me but I am little scared of the caseback engraving it seems a bit too faint.thanks


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rolex116509rb said:


> Howdy y'all I was wondering what you experts think of this watch I am a bit skeptical to pull the plug on it but the seller says he will meet in a banl and the back is open caseback,it looks ok to me but I am little scared of the caseback engraving it seems a bit too faint.thanks


Looks good to me
Seriously, we need a picture


----------



## rolex116509rb

Here are some pictures and I have owned panerais before along with rolex breitling omega I am 99% sure all is fine its that 1% that worries me.Sorry about the bad pictures


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Pictures are worst I saw, but even with them my statement is FAKE!
But I need some decent photos to confirm it!


----------



## rolex116509rb

Omg thank you I was kinda concerned when the seller said he was unable to take more pictures at this time and that the watch was with his uncle.I might just pass on this or make sure he meets at a authorized panerai dealer thank you so much


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rolex116509rb said:


> Omg thank you I was kinda concerned when the seller said he was unable to take more pictures at this time and that the watch was with his uncle.I might just pass on this or make sure he meets at a authorized panerai dealer thank you so much


If it was me, I would never buy it, based on those photos and what I can see looks bad!


----------



## Jewbaka

rolex116509rb said:


> Omg thank you I was kinda concerned when the seller said he was unable to take more pictures at this time and that the watch was with his uncle.I might just pass on this or make sure he meets at a authorized panerai dealer thank you so much


I can tell outright it's a fake. The PAM 127 and its derivatives use Panerai's version of a movement called the Unitas 6497. The movement in the picture is a bad fake of Panerai's own P.3000 movement.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Well, I could not see enough detail of movement, but from what I could see its a FAKE ok
a


----------



## rolex116509rb

Yes these are horrible pictures from the seller,I decided to pass on this thanks again for all your help everyone you saved me from possibly losing a lot of money kudos to you all hope it comes back to you all 10 fold thanks again


----------



## Vadim Aptrakhmanov

Hi guys,
I am new to this forum, i was planning to buy PAM's for a long time. I am from Russia and i've found a nice watch near my city. The price is good (around 3000eur), but i have some doubts about this Panerai.
It is PAM00116, limited edition, one of 300 pieces.
The owner says that it was bought in Italy, but he have lost documents. It goes with not original leather strap and OEM rubber strap, with box.
What do you think? Are they real? Or i should find the other one?
Thanks!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hi
The Panerai, in my opinion is one of the best copied watches, a few tell signs only can give it away.

From dial side yours looks OK, but to truly tell, I need close up (clear) photos of the balance wheel, Swan neck regulator, shock protector, and the 2 screws on the cockto truly tell.

For example the shock protection (gold) ring I post below,is not looking exactly like yours, but that may be the poor photos - that concerns me.
Please post better photos, but currently I am not 100% sure.

This is exactly what yours should look like
https://www.google.com/search?q=PAM...OHC25vlxwIVRNWACh0q1QfP#imgrc=CwLfIP3ePsYWOM:


----------



## Vadim Aptrakhmanov

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> From dial side yours looks OK, but to truly tell, I need close up (clear) photos of the balance wheel, Swan neck regulator, shock protector, and the 2 screws on the cockto truly tell.


Thanks, i asked the owner about photos, should wait until tomorrow.
I have also this pics he sent me before


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hi, better picture and looks good to me.
Overal, I think genuine, but we can wait for other picture to be sure
a


----------



## Vadim Aptrakhmanov

Thanks, HOROLOGIST007
We are waiting for other photos. 
Anyway, i will check it in the service center (unfortunately there no official Panerai service). What should i check? Movement comparison (21600?), weight? How much does original Pam116 weight? Is here anyone who have 116 on this forum?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Vadim Aptrakhmanov said:


> Thanks, HOROLOGIST007
> We are waiting for other photos.
> Anyway, i will check it in the service center (unfortunately there no official Panerai service). What should i check? Movement comparison (21600?), weight? How much does original Pam116 weight? Is here anyone who have 116 on this forum?


I doubt weight will show, counterfeiters use same (2nd source) movement
I am pretty sure yours is good, if you can get that closer picture I can confirm it.
But I am 99% sure it OK

A


----------



## korneevy

Vadim Aptrakhmanov said:


> Thanks, HOROLOGIST007
> We are waiting for other photos.
> Anyway, i will check it in the service center (unfortunately there no official Panerai service). What should i check? Movement comparison (21600?), weight? How much does original Pam116 weight? Is here anyone who have 116 on this forum?


Vadim, this is a well copied model and you need to be extra careful; being of Russian decent, I also know how "resourceful" Russian crooks are, so make sure you are not taken for a ride and lose your hard earned cash. Easiest is to compare the papers work and warranty vs the movement and case numbers, these should be a good enough indication as to whether you need to spend any more time on this or not. The price is realistic so if it's a genuine article, it may be an OK but, but make sure all paperwork and warranty checks out and it's a full set, else you will never know 100% and will have a hard time selling or even getting this piece serviced by Panerai in the future, if it ever comes to it. Удачи!


----------



## Vadim Aptrakhmanov

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> But I am 99% sure it OK
> 
> A





korneevy said:


> Vadim, this is a well copied model Удачи!


ooohhh...

Спасибо 

The owner sent me the same photos but in better quality, he said that he will take a closer picture in the evening.
Also he said that he did service(repassage) at official boutique in Moscow in 2012 Moscow Berlin House 
Is it possible to call them and check?

Thanks guys for your answers!


----------



## korneevy

Vadim Aptrakhmanov said:


> ooohhh...
> 
> Спасибо
> 
> The owner sent me the same photos but in better quality, he said that he will take a closer picture in the evening.
> Also he said that he did service(repassage) at official boutique in Moscow in 2012 Moscow Berlin House
> Is it possible to call them and check?
> 
> Thanks guys for your answers!


Privet, I just realised that your initial message said that the watch comes without any docs or warranty papers, so my advice for comparing these against your watch is obviously redundant;( but again, all of the Panerai basic, entry level models are faked so well, I would never risk buying something like this without the papers, just not worth a hassle and you can easily get the full set for not much more, why risk spending 3K euros on a watch with murky providence? I would stay away, the market is flooded with these and you are not getting any special deal on it, so just keep looking, you will find one very soon.

As for the service records, Panerai won't give you any information as you are not the owner - he should have service receipts and confirmation of the work done, or can request a copy from Panerai, which should be a good enough proxy for authenticity as normally Panerai will not do any work on counterfeits. But again, why go though all of these and torture yourself into figuring things out for the present owner, make it his job to prove all of these to you and walk away if in any doubt...


----------



## Vadim Aptrakhmanov

Just made a call to Panerai moscow boutique. They said that they have one watch with this BB and OP codes in base(good news?), but they can tell any information about service, repassage etc only if i bring this watch to them.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Vadim Aptrakhmanov said:


> Just made a call to Panerai moscow boutique. They said that they have one watch with this BB and OP codes in base(good news?), but they can tell any information about service, repassage etc only if i bring this watch to them.


well its another pointer.
From what we have photo wise, I am quietly confident, but this watch is one of the the most well copied, and great care needed. To be 100% sure a straight good photo of movement especially the balance wheel, regulator and cock

A


----------



## Vadim Aptrakhmanov

I have asked him to make photos and thats what i got...waiting for a closer photos


----------



## korneevy

Vadim Aptrakhmanov said:


> I have asked him to make photos and thats what i got...waiting for a closer photos


Well the strap is def a fake


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

korneevy said:


> Well the strap is def a fake


Does the strap say Paneraai? If not it's not a fake, just a replacement. 
A


----------



## korneevy

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Does the strap say Paneraai? If not it's not a fake, just a replacement.
> A


It clearly says Panerai, just magnify the photos. The font it is written in is incorrect, the stitching is crooked and with wrong thread, so not much else to say


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

korneevy said:


> It clearly says Panerai, just magnify the photos. The font it is written in is incorrect, the stitching is crooked and with wrong thread, so not much else to say


Yes, see it now. 
Movement and dial still looks good


----------



## T1meout

I would not even entertain the idea of buying a watch which had unoriginal parts, be it the strap or any other part for that mater.


----------



## AlBundy

Does this look fake to you experts?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Yes.
Where is the 2nd GMT hand?


----------



## suparobg

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yes.
> Where is the 2nd GMT hand?


I was about to ask the same thing. there is no GMT hand. that is the first thing I noticed as well. can't be a GMT without a GMT hand


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

suparobg said:


> I was about to ask the same thing. there is no GMT hand. that is the first thing I noticed as well. can't be a GMT without a GMT hand


Absolutely not, hence FAKE!


----------



## DieSkim

Sorry, just had a look again. You should be able to identify the GMT hand behind the hours hand. If they are aligned the GMT hand is sharper and around 1.5mm longer.
other questions, but may be lighting: lume on the 3 visible hands seem yellowed, the lever pin seems flat.


----------



## DieSkim

See photo regarding the aligned hour/gmt hand, I had to get the flash close to see it. Also check the lever pin as mentioned.


----------



## shnjb

DieSkim said:


> See photo regarding the aligned hour/gmt hand, I had to get the flash close to see it. Also check the lever pin as mentioned.


What GMT hand are you talking about?
There are only two hands here.


----------



## DieSkim

shnjb said:


> DieSkim said:
> 
> 
> 
> See photo regarding the aligned hour/gmt hand, I had to get the flash close to see it. Also check the lever pin as mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> What GMT hand are you talking about?
> There are only two hands here.
Click to expand...

It's magic... Have a look again.


----------



## DieSkim

I posted pics of an authentic 441 As reference.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

What are you talking about?
there should be 3 hands visible, two for hours and one minute hand.
that watch has only 2 hands, as can be seen in your photos.

do you know what GMT means on a watch? Please explain your definition of GMt.

this watch is a fake!


----------



## DieSkim

The hour and gmt hand is ... Uuuhm ... Aligned


----------



## DieSkim

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> What are you talking about?
> there should be 3 hands visible, two for hours and one minute hand.
> that watch has only 2 hands, as can be seen in your photos.
> 
> do you know what GMT means on a watch? Please explain your definition of GMt.
> 
> this watch is a fake!


Check my photo ... You are seemingly an expert?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

OK
See the photo you mean now, and see it
Checking


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

OK
see it but still a fake in my opinion based on what I can see!
CERAMIC*A* versus CERAMIC (genuine)

And if your two photos are the same watch, please set GMT hand too a different hour time than the main hour hand, so I amy check its length and arrow style.


----------



## korneevy

*****... seriously, another one trying to get authentication of $15K watch by showing a few grainy low res photos? 

If you are genuinely considering buying that watch based on a couple crappy mobile phone photos, hit me up via PM as I have many, many a bridge to sell to you. And they are all genuine ceramicA, guaranteed.

I don't know how many times one has to see the exact same thing written in response to these pointless "expert verification requests" to get the message. If only you spent 10 mins researching, you would have found that: 1. Most Panerai models are faked 2. This model is faked 3. Only way to verify is to have all papers matching the case and movement numbers, accompanied by a set of high res photos of the movement 4. If you are THAT crazy to buy it without papers and warranty as "uncle gave it to me and I lost all of these when moving house", please please got for it - fool and his money are parted easily... 5. There are no "experts" here - this is no such thing online, not here, not there, not anywhere; if you want to get a proper valuation and authenticity check, just take it to people who do it for a living or Panerai, pay a fee, get a written certificate and then sleep well at night. 

But in all honesty, I do not believe that in this internet of things day and age, an individual with $15k of disposable income to be spent on an arguably unnecessary piece of men's jewellery can be that dumb, so I am pretty sure you know what this watch is and you are simply trolling these folks here, having a laugh at their "GMT hand is missing" efforts to call it out. 

So I say this watch a fake, and it stays so until you or your seller or his uncle or one of the movers who relocated him to his new house prove otherwise. Apply this line of thinking when buying expensive items that you seemingly know next to nothing about, from strangers located half the world away, and your money are likely to be safe. Key here is likely - if you need iron clad, "expert-backed" guarantee, buy from Panerai. That's it.


----------



## DieSkim

Original: ceramica ... Please refer to MY photo or any panerai print. have you ever even seen a 441 in real life? The one shown is low digit R series, produced and delivered 2015 ... Your a fake mate


----------



## DieSkim

korneevy said:


> *****... seriously, another one trying to get authentication of $15K watch by grainy low res photos taken at night?
> 
> If you are genuinely considering buying that watch based on crappy 2 photos, hit me up via PM as I have many, many bridges to sell to you. And they are all genuine ceramic, guaranteed.
> 
> I don't know how many times one has to see the exact same thing written in response to these pointless "expert verification requests", only if you spent 10 mins researching, you would have found that: 1. Most Panerai models are faked 2. This model is faked 3. Only way to verify is to have all papers matching the case and movement numbers, accompanied by a set of high res photos of the movement 4. If you are that crazy to buy it without papers and warranty as "uncle gave it to me and I lost all of these when moving house", please please got for it - fool and his money are parted easily... 5. There are no "experts" here - this is no such thing online, not for free; if you want to get a proper valuation and authenticity check, take it to people who do it for a living or Panerai, pay a fee and sleep well at night.
> 
> But in all honesty, I do not believe that in this day and age, an individual with $15k of disposable income to be spent on an arguably piece of mans jewellery can be that dumb, so I am pretty sure you know what this watch is and you are trolling these folks here, having a laugh at their "GMT hand is missing" efforts to call it out.


Sorry, I think we have missed the plot in the past few posts, what ever I posted was to the assistance of the gentleman who posted the 441(?) With the black leather jacket on. I was never attempting to authenticate my authentic watch.


----------



## korneevy

DieSkim said:


> Sorry, I think we have missed the plot in the past few posts, what ever I posted was to the assistance of the gentleman who posted the 441(?) With the black leather jacket on. I was never attempting to authenticate my authentic watch.


Sorry mate yes I did - of course my post refers to the original poster, not you


----------



## DieSkim

Hope he finds the message within the message


----------



## dood

I'm looking at a limited edition PAM029. Seller agreed to let me take it to my trusted watchmaker to have a look. He opened it up and verified that the movement is a genuine ETA 2893-2 - which is the movement used in this model PAM. But the movement was not decorated and the rotor was just plain with no logo stamped on it. Does anyone know for sure if the 2893's used in the PAM029 are supposed to be decorated? As far as I know this model is the only PAM that just dropped in a straight ETA movement with no modifications.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I can confirm it uses the ETA 2893-2
Will see if i have a movement photo of an actual PAM and report back


----------



## korneevy

dood said:


> ... Does anyone know for sure if the 2893's used in the PAM029 are supposed to be decorated? As far as I know this model is the only PAM that just dropped in a straight ETA movement with no modifications.


It will be rather surprising, infuriating and disappointing if Panerai would just take a stock 200$ movement and put it in a $6K watch, but it is known to happen (Brooklyn Bridge PAM318 very "special" edition with a rough, low grade $100 movement and zero decoration, anybody?).

However, in this particular case, I am afraid the watch in question is either fake or Franken. Here is how it supposed to look like (not my photos); not THAT much of decos to justify anything close to $6K, but at least they stamped their brand name on the rotor and baseplate


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Mmm
That photo came from here - but it does not exactly relate to the OP model Pam 029, but a Pam 063.
So may not prove anything catagorically.

Paneristi Public Forum: PAM63

For certain Panerai, do use other movements that have no extra markings or visible changes (except their name on it)

I would suggest OP also posts photos of dial, and crown guard (both sides)
adam


----------



## korneevy

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Mmm
> That photo came from here - but it does not exactly relate to the OP model Pam 029, but a Pam 063.
> So may not prove anything catagorically.
> 
> Paneristi Public Forum: PAM63
> 
> For certain Panerai, do use other movements that have no extra markings or visible changes (except their name on it)
> 
> I would suggest OP also posts photos of dial, and crown guard (both sides)
> adam


I had owned a PAM029M for a couple if years and saw the guts when my watchmaker was servicing it before I put it for sale, I can assure you that the movement in genuine 029 will looks exactly the same as on those paneristi photos, 100%...as long as it is genuine.


----------



## T1meout

AlBundy said:


> Does this look fake to you experts?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


The front of the watch on close inspection looks genuine, but how about posting some detailed, crisp and clear pictures of the exhibition case back?


----------



## watchVT

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> OK
> see it but still a fake in my opinion based on what I can see!
> CERAMIC*A* versus CERAMIC (genuine)
> 
> And if your two photos are the same watch, please set GMT hand too a different hour time than the main hour hand, so I amy check its length and arrow style.


You don't actually seem to know what to look for do you...


----------



## dood

^ it was already noted above that the dial says GMT but there is no GMT hand. Pretty sure that's a fake right off the bat.


----------



## watchVT

dood said:


> ^ it was already noted above that the dial says GMT but there is no GMT hand. Pretty sure that's a fake right off the bat.


It's behind the hour hand as has been repeated numerous times. :think::think:


----------



## DieSkim

dood said:


> ^ it was already noted above that the dial says GMT but there is no GMT hand. Pretty sure that's a fake right off the bat.


Why waste your time typing? You obviously have no experience with this model, nor do you own one as reference.... ?


----------



## T1meout

dood said:


> ^ it was already noted above that the dial says GMT but there is no GMT hand. Pretty sure that's a fake right off the bat.


It's obvious you need to have your eyes examined.


----------



## dood

watchVT said:


> It's behind the hour hand as has been repeated numerous times. :think::think:


Looking closer, you are right. The point of the GMT hand is sticking out past the end of the hour hand. Where has it been "repeated numerous times" though? I just re-read every post after that picture and didn't see any posts pointing that out.



T1meout said:


> It's obvious you need to have your eyes examined.


How classy...


----------



## watchVT

dood said:


> Looking closer, you are right. The point of the GMT hand is sticking out past the end of the hour hand. Where has it been "repeated numerous times" though? I just re-read every post after that picture and didn't see any posts pointing that out.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Top of page 81.
> 
> I can't say either way if the watch is 100% real or fake based on the current pics, but those who don't know for sure shouldn't be giving what seems like definitive answers (in all cases).


----------



## T1meout

It's funny how authenticity requests took a dive once sales forum restrictions were implemented.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

T1meout said:


> It's funny how authenticity requests took a dive once sales forum restrictions were implemented.


Did they?
Now we have spammers posting nonsense on fake busters to get to the magical figure
a


----------



## DieSkim

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> T1meout said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how authenticity requests took a dive once sales forum restrictions were implemented.
> 
> 
> 
> Did they?
> Now we have spammers posting nonsense on fake busters to get to the magical figure
> a
Click to expand...

What do you mean with achieving a 'magical figure' ? Monetary value ?


----------



## rero5678

Hi guys,

Came across this watch recently, not sure if genunine, can you please advice?


----------



## R1P

*Re: The &amp;quot;Is this Panerai real?&amp;quot; thread*



rero5678 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Came across this watch recently, not sure if genunine, can you please advice?
> 
> View attachment 5672762
> View attachment 5672770
> View attachment 5672778


The ever elusive blue RadLum with offset cyclops...


----------



## DieSkim

This one is covering all the bases!


----------



## McGriddle

Wow! That's the ultra rare ever elusive Luminoriomir Titanicm Special "9" Cyclops. Isn't is also a platinum case?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

McGriddle said:


> . Isn't is also a platinum case?


No! That is the Titanium model.
a


----------



## Wlover

Wrong!

It's a special panerai proprietary alloy called "titanicm". Look at the case back again. Says it right there. ;p



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> No! That is the Titanium model.
> a


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Wlover said:


> Wrong!
> 
> It's a special panerai proprietary alloy called "titanicm". Look at the case back again. Says it right there. ;p


actually I was being sarcastic!
are you saying this watch is genuine?


----------



## T1meout

Wlover said:


> Wrong!
> 
> It's a special panerai proprietary alloy called "titanicm". Look at the case back again. Says it right there. ;p


This watch should have went down with the ship.


----------



## DieSkim

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Wlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong!
> 
> It's a special panerai proprietary alloy called "titanicm". Look at the case back again. Says it right there. ;p
> 
> 
> 
> actually I was being sarcastic!
> are you saying this watch is genuine?
Click to expand...

Yes pure genuine Titanicm. The stuff superman eats for breakfast.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Just so no confusion to any unsuspecting reader
Its a FAKE!


----------



## dj00tiek

suparobg said:


> I was about to ask the same thing. there is no GMT hand. that is the first thing I noticed as well. can't be a GMT without a GMT hand


Isn;t the GMT hand just under the hour hand.. if you look closely you can see the hour hand has a sharp ending, which could be the GMT hand under it. Ofcourse we all know it's a feature of Panerai's GMT movements to have the GMT hand straighend up and "hidden" under the hour hand.

I could not say if this is a fake or real one because you can't see the movement in detail.


----------



## bigclive2011

Help my eyes are bleeding!!!!!!!!!


----------



## T1meout

dj00tiek said:


> Isn;t the GMT hand just under the hour hand.. if you look closely you can see the hour hand has a sharp ending, which could be the GMT hand under it. Ofcourse we all know it's a feature of Panerai's GMT movements to have the GMT hand straighend up and "hidden" under the hour hand.
> 
> I could not say if this is a fake or real one because you can't see the movement in detail.


This has been discussed in great detail. You'r a little to late to the party.


----------



## susymassetti55

can anyone please help me to discover if this is a fake? it's on sale for usd 4.3k (they took my offer for 3.8K) it is for my son -day and I do not want t screw it up! man thanks to all!


----------



## susymassetti55

I've forgot to mention that there are no open back photos but I'm going to ask now to open it and send it to me asap. thanks again


----------



## susymassetti55

susymassetti55 said:


> can anyone please help me to discover if this is a fake? it's on sale for usd 4.3k (they took my offer for 3.8K) it is for my son -day and I do not want t screw it up! man thanks to all!


 - this is how they listed: panerai luminor marina automatic 49 - 40mm no radiomir 1950 gmt chronograph


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

susymassetti55 said:


> - this is how they listed: panerai luminor marina automatic 49 - 40mm no radiomir 1950 gmt chronograph


But its NOT a chronograph!!!!
NOR a GMT!!!!
A


----------



## susymassetti55

thank you horologist007! any other observations? is the guys just listing with the wrong name as he's "ignorant" or it is just a darn fake end of?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

OK
It is an OP6529
Dial looks all correct.
I can not correctly see the crown guard stud in your picture, but is should be SS and absolutely flush, like this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pan...jRXkfM:;N1vvB3YqtrgZzM:&imgrc=SPMRoTE4jRXkfM:

Your third photo it looks gold in color NOT Stainless Steel and EXACTLY flush


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

susymassetti55 said:


> thank you horologist007! any other observations? is the guys just listing with the wrong name as he's "ignorant" or it is just a darn fake end of?


Well see my comment above.
That stud pin should be SS and absolutely flush on BOTH sides.
That said dial looks perfect.
A


----------



## susymassetti55

this guy is at leas suspicious, he s posting in timezone.com as well and playing lot with price, never a good sign besides doesn't look as flushed s the photo link u sent!


----------



## MrBillsy

susymassetti55 said:


> this guy is at leas suspicious, he s posting in timezone.com as well and playing lot with price, never a good sign besides doesn't look as flushed s the photo link u sent!


if you don't trust the seller then why risk the cash......


----------



## dood

the lower edge of the bezel where it meets the case (the part in between where the bezel touches the case and where the bezel slopes) looks too high/raised. I don't know if that's specific to this model but I wouldn't buy without pictures of the movement.


----------



## gusty23

REAL or FAKE LUMINOR MARINA PANERAI Automatic?

Hi everyone. This is one of those stories when smthing is too good to be true. I am pretty much sure it is not genuine, just wanted some second thoughts and also that others see the photos. From the outside, really can not spot anything that would tell me that watch is a fake. As from the inside, it is written on the movement OP IX. According to my research, it should have been OP III.

























































Please take a look for a moment!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Its fake.
Apart from wrong movement.
Movement is NOT a genuine Panerai


----------



## gusty23

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Its fake.
> Apart from wrong movement.
> Movement is NOT a genuine Panerai


Thank you


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

gusty23 said:


> Thank you


Pleasure
Thanks for sharing those great photos, I may use that example on my next course
Is that OK?
Regards
adam


----------



## gusty23

Yes please.


----------



## ksakke

Hi,

have my doubts on the following 025. The watch was supposedly produced in 1999, but wasn't the bezel at that time the old one, C-series? This one sports the new bezel. Fake or not? Or a souped up version? Is it just my ignorance? Sorry for the poor quality of the pics, these come from Ch24. Thanks,

-K


----------



## DieSkim

Crown guard and lever ... Upside down


----------



## ksakke

I must be blind, thanks for pointing that out! Ok, the dealer who claims that this is the real thing goes to my black list.


----------



## bigclive2011

You are joking right!!

Hands are awful and as for the locking lever the wrong way up!!


----------



## DieSkim

ksakke said:


> I must be blind, thanks for pointing that out! Ok, the dealer who claims that this is the real thing goes to my black list.


Report him


----------



## venguard

Dear user,
please, help me with this Panerai PAM388! I`m very confused because the seller doesn`t have box and papers, and after 5 hours I have to meet him an have to decide to buy or not! Can you see the photos and express your opinions for this watch - is it real or not? Thanks!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Movement pictures not very clear, but I believe a fake.
Also not sure that is correct hands for a "Black seal"
Movement is (should be) P 9000 and it just does not look Panerai quality

adam


----------



## ksakke

Hi,

what do you think of this 305? Sorry for the crappy pictures. Thanks,

-K


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I believe fake.
Apart from small things on bezel - 
Incorrect movement - should be OPIII


----------



## ksakke

Hi,

thanks, try to bear with me, but could you point out the differences between this one and OPIII.

-K


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ksakke said:


> Hi,
> 
> thanks, try to bear with me, but could you point out the differences between this one and OPIII.
> 
> -K


Your movement seems to have the OP 9000 movement, that was never used (I believe) on that model of Panerai.
It looks totally different

Here is yours under FAKES
https://www.google.com/search?q=Pan...dyQIVQ0QmCh34tQaJ&dpr=1#imgrc=oM_6L_ki3C9-7M:
a


----------



## ksakke

Hi,

according to this (Luminor Submersible 1950 3 Days Automatic Titanio - 47mm PAM00305 - Collection Luminor 1950 - Officine Panerai Watches) 305 has the P9000 movement. Here's a picture from the Panerai site and the fake you posted. Could you humor me and point the differences between the fake, the watch I posted yesterday and the real thing as I do not see them. Probably should go and have my eyes checked  And if anyone else wishes to chime in, go ahead!

-K


----------



## SBD

That 388 is 100% fake. The P.9000 movement has the escapement at 7 o'clock. The majority of fakes have it at 11 like yours. Call out the seller


----------



## ksakke

Hi,

still not sure what you mean (escapement)... I'm a relative newbie and probably don't get it but isn't the escapement at 7 o'clock in both, the real thing and the watch I posted yesterday?

-K


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ksakke said:


> Hi,
> 
> according to this (Luminor Submersible 1950 3 Days Automatic Titanio - 47mm PAM00305 - Collection Luminor 1950 - Officine Panerai Watches) 305 has the P9000 movement. Here's a picture from the Panerai site and the fake you posted. Could you humor me and point the differences between the fake, the watch I posted yesterday and the real thing as I do not see them. Probably should go and have my eyes checked  And if anyone else wishes to chime in, go ahead!
> 
> -K


OK, my bad, from my side I did not know that model also came in 9000 movement, so apologies there.

Once again, my error
adam


----------



## SBD

ksakke said:


> Hi,
> 
> still not sure what you mean (escapement)... I'm a relative newbie and probably don't get it but isn't the escapement at 7 o'clock in both, the real thing and the watch I posted yesterday?
> 
> -K
> View attachment 6063978
> View attachment 6063986


Yes, my post was referring to the 388 Radiomir posted by the other user above you. Coincidentally, his watch also features the P.9000 movement -- but his is clearly fake due to the location of the escapement. Yours has the escapement in the correct location.


----------



## DieSkim

I am yet to see what about this 305 seems fake.
Would love for Horologist to elaborate, seeing he calls anything a fake.


----------



## bwtrayer

url removed by mod, no links to replica sites, please re-read our rules & guidelines There are so many fake Panerai's out there! I'm scared to even buy one on ebay or even here because there are so many fakes. And then this website: They even sell fake boxes and warranty cards. They should shut down!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

bwtrayer; said:


> There are so many fake Panerai's out there! I'm scared to even buy one on ebay or even here because there are so many fakes. And then this website: They even sell fake boxes and warranty cards. They should shut down!


These are fakes - its a fake site.
We do NOT promote fake sites
adam


----------



## whchong

Hi, i just purchased a panerai PAM111 online, it is a pre-owned watch, it didnt come with the original papers but only the GAI cert, can anyone help to to check if this is authentic? I did many research but still doubt with it, please help! Really appreciate it!


----------



## DieSkim

What's up with that swan neck spring?


----------



## korneevy

Le Fake 100%


----------



## watchfanatic100

Looks ok to me but I am no expert but the swan neck and incalbloc look fine!!!


----------



## DieSkim

watchfanatic100 said:


> Looks ok to me but I am no expert but the swan neck and incalbloc look fine!!!


Spring Overlapping though?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

watchfanatic100 said:


> Looks ok to me but I am no expert but the swan neck and incalbloc look fine!!!


"swan neck regulator looks fine"? You are kidding? It's completely broken and INcorrect!


----------



## whchong

Im bringing to a watch repair shop to correct the swan neck displacement, that should be fine, i think this watch hasnt been serviced since its bought by the first owner. Besides that swan neck, is there any other parts that looks suspicious to be a fake one? Thanks for your response guys!



whchong said:


> Hi, i just purchased a panerai PAM111 online, it is a pre-owned watch, it didnt come with the original papers but only the GAI cert, can anyone help to to check if this is authentic? I did many research but still doubt with it, please help! Really appreciate it!
> 
> View attachment 6133690
> View attachment 6133682
> View attachment 6133698
> View attachment 6133706


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I will be checking it closely in next few hours, but the Swan neck being completely out raises flags, will check the shock protection and dial later
a


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

OK
Seems fake.
Crown guard lock is incorrect, it should be at top, yours appears at bottom.
Also stud is not flush.
That and Swan neck, point to fake
Can you give me the exact model (OPXXXX) number
adam


----------



## whchong

I think they removed the crown guard and screwed it upside down, im not sure about that, so looking for help, the model is OP6567. Thanks Adam!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

whchong said:


> I think they removed the crown guard and screwed it upside down, im not sure about that, so looking for help, the model is OP6567. Thanks Adam!


Sorry, between your photos and all the points that are incorrect, I have to go with fake.
The shock protection is correct, so that is a positive sign, but swan neck, crown guard, crown guard stud and center stud on hands, all look wrong.
I cannot see perfectly the length of the hands on yours all add up to concern


----------



## thirty8street

Is this 111 legit? 
Expert input much appreciated!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Very poor movement photo, but from what I can see, I am saying it's a fake.
sorry
a


----------



## MattyMac

This one looks legit, I can get it for only $20, is it real...:-d


----------



## MattyMac

Swan neck does not appear to be in correct position to micro screw, the inside corners of the crown guard should be much sharper not rounded. I've owned a 111.


----------



## waikeekee

I don't have a 111 or 112 but they are similar. However, I do have a few PANERAI watches and based on what I have and IMHO this 111 you present is fake because:-

A) Dial should be sandwich instead of sausage (your picture) &
B) The watch index number should be engraved within a rectangular sort of box yours is not. This, I can't be 100% sure.

I am no expert, just offering my opinion.

RGDS
WKK

The enemy of my enemy is my friend


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

waikeekee said:


> I don't have a 111 or 112 but they are similar. However, I do have a few PANERAI watches and based on what I have and IMHO this 111 you present is fake because:-
> 
> A) Dial should be sandwich instead of sausage (your picture) &
> B) The watch index number should be engraved within a rectangular sort of box yours is not. This, I can't be 100% sure.
> 
> I am no expert, just offering my opinion.
> 
> RGDS
> WKK
> 
> The enemy of my enemy is my friend


Can youb explain your first point? What you mean by sausage versus sandwich?


----------



## waikeekee

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Can youb explain your first point? What you mean by sausage versus sandwich?


Some people call sausage dial as painted dial. Here are borrowed picture from their official website.

PAM00112 - Sandwich dial










PAM00000 - Sausage/Painted dial










I am surprised that you are not aware of this.

RGDS
WKK

The enemy of my enemy is my friend


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Thanks
Understand
Appreciated


----------



## rakusak

Hi All,

Would like to purchase my first Paneari. Saw this one on Ebay...

Trying to still figure out if it's real or not... Any thoughts?

Auction ends later today. Subject line: *Panerai Luminor PAM 005 / Firenze 1860 MINT!

(since i can't post links yet *


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Post the item number!


----------



## rakusak

Item number252194465791


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

It "looks" Ok from what I can see, but I can only really see the dial.
I would like to see crown studs (both sides), movement and why no box or papers if its never been worn.

Seller has only 46 profile points, and no provenance to the watch.
Also the lug attachment to case is just not clean (sharp enough) to me - see here:
https://www.google.es/search?q=PAM+...hWJRhQKHa5hBdgQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=7_kcAoJGkzvjhM:

All that, and to me, too big a risk


----------



## rakusak

Thank you for looking into it!!!

I was on the fence myself. Will stay away. The bolt/screw that holds the swan neck looks a bit too flush, no? I asked for more pictures, but doubt I will see them before the then. What can I be realistically looking at for this model? Have seen a wide range of prices...


----------



## concealed

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

Good morning Panerai friends. Could I get a legit check on this watch?

Ebay item #

252128157054


----------



## concealed

Good morning Panerai friends. Could I get a legit check on this watch?

Ebay item # 

252128157054


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*



concealed said:


> Good morning Panerai friends. Could I get a legit check on this watch?
> 
> Ebay item #
> 
> 252128157054


Its ended, and seems genuine


----------



## Wlover

Actually e series 111 had sausage dial. The sandwich dial for 111 started in h series I believe.



waikeekee said:


> I don't have a 111 or 112 but they are similar. However, I do have a few PANERAI watches and based on what I have and IMHO this 111 you present is fake because:-
> 
> A) Dial should be sandwich instead of sausage (your picture) &
> B) The watch index number should be engraved within a rectangular sort of box yours is not. This, I can't be 100% sure.
> 
> I am no expert, just offering my opinion.
> 
> RGDS
> WKK
> 
> The enemy of my enemy is my friend


----------



## Wlover

Sorry I'm not trying to be rude but if you don't know sandwich and sausage dial I find it strange you are giving advice on this thread.

Anyway I'm just saying bec don't want potential buyers to get wrong advice and buy a fake. Apologies for any offense.



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Can youb explain your first point? What you mean by sausage versus sandwich?


----------



## waikeekee

Wlover said:


> Actually e series 111 had sausage dial. The sandwich dial for 111 started in h series I believe.


I thought so, that was why I mentioned I am not too sure. When i saw the 111 in-question with the sausage dial, red flag was raised as I have seen many 111's with sandwich dials. Thanks for clarifying this.

RGDS
WKK

The enemy of my enemy is my friend


----------



## DieSkim

I would question the seller. Who has an unworn watch without the box?


----------



## hvalchev

Hello everybody,

can you please advise on this one. It is a gift from, so I dont'have box.


----------



## bigclive2011

The Panerai Bronzo is one of the most sought after watches in the world and are unavailable at less than £20k.

So over to you on that one )


----------



## T1meout

Your bronzo is about as real as a unicorn.


----------



## rakusak

Hi all,

Saw this one earlier and looks enticing... but is it real? Thanks for the comments in advance!

*Ebay Description: Panerai PAM 312, Mint, Complete Box, Papers & Extras

#: 121834214224

Hoping to join the Panerai club soon!*


----------



## Arrow269

Having issues quoting the post above - but the fact that the 111 has a painted dial is not a tell that it's a fake. 

If I am not mistaken, the earlier 111 and 177 (and likely the 112 and 176) had painted dials.


----------



## Panerai Freak

rakusak said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Saw this one earlier and looks enticing... but is it real? Thanks for the comments in advance!
> 
> *Ebay Description: Panerai PAM 312, Mint, Complete Box, Papers & Extras
> 
> #: 121834214224
> 
> Hoping to join the Panerai club soon!*


It's hard to tell without a picture of the movement.

You should definitely ask the seller for one, along with a closeup picture of the crown guard.


----------



## Cesar Dominguez

Is this Real or Fake


----------



## ilitig8

Cesar Dominguez said:


> Is this Real or Fake
> View attachment 6265386


Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think that is the wrong box, it should have the Regatta plaque under the watch and should have a scroll. I didn't bother to scrutinize the movement. It should be easy to tell in person by simply checking to see if the flyback function works.


----------



## m630

Pix quality is horrible but it doesn't look good


----------



## SomeAssemblyRequired

Hard to judge based on the (poor) quality of the photos.


----------



## Cesar Dominguez

are this better



















r


----------



## ilitig8

Cesar Dominguez said:


> are this better
> View attachment 6266290
> 
> r


it is 100% fake, see the year designation by the production number? It is an H on this watch which is 2005, the 253 was a 2006 SE which have I designations for 2006. That and the fact it isn't in the proper box and doesn't have the correct papers...


----------



## DieSkim

Cesar Dominguez said:


> Is this Real or Fake
> [iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6265386&d=1449690447"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]


Mate, the first picture with papers is different to the 2 pictures without papers... Is this the same watch? Who's bullshitting who?


----------



## Wlover

1000% Fake.



Cesar Dominguez said:


> are this better
> View attachment 6266274
> View attachment 6266306
> View attachment 6266290
> 
> r
> View attachment 6266274


----------



## rakusak

Hi all,

Is the Panerai real? Would love to get classic Pan!

The ad is on Timezone: *FSOT: ReDuCeD PANERAI PAM 111 E SERIAL, BREITLING VINTAGE COSMONAUTE

Seller: drster

*


----------



## T1meout

Looks legit, but a head on shot of the movement wouldn't hurt just to be sure.


----------



## rolex116509rb

hi Everyone I am thinking about doing a deal on pulling the plug on this one,would appreciate help on it,I think its real,the seller seems legit.thanks again and sorry about the bad pixs!!!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rakusak said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Is the Panerai real? Would love to get classic Pan!
> 
> The ad is on Timezone: *FSOT: ReDuCeD PANERAI PAM 111 E SERIAL, BREITLING VINTAGE COSMONAUTE
> 
> Seller: drster
> 
> *
> View attachment 6281754
> View attachment 6281762
> View attachment 6281770
> View attachment 6281786
> View attachment 6281794
> View attachment 6281802
> View attachment 6281810
> View attachment 6281818


Dial and movement look good, BUT the soldering of lugs onto case really looks suspicious, also a gap between crown guard and case, surely not Panerai quality, take a look at some genuine Panerai lugs where they attach to case.

Request better straight on movement photos
a


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rolex116509rb said:


> hi Everyone I am thinking about doing a deal on pulling the plug on this one,would appreciate help on it,I think its real,the seller seems legit.thanks again and sorry about the bad pixs!!!


From those useles photos, indeed only the movement one is even worth inspection, I can not see anything wrong with the movement.
BUT the photos are rfeally too poor to say anything.
a


----------



## johneh

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Dial and movement look good, BUT the soldering of lugs onto case really looks suspicious, also a gap between crown guard and case, surely not Panerai quality, take a look at some genuine Panerai lugs where they attach to case.
> 
> Request better straight on movement photos
> a


No offence man, but you don't know what you're talking about. It's 100% genuine. DRSTER is a pretty prolific seller on the forums, I highly doubt he'd ruin his rep by selling fakes.


----------



## ilitig8

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Dial and movement look good, BUT the soldering of lugs onto case really looks suspicious, also a gap between crown guard and case, surely not Panerai quality, take a look at some genuine Panerai lugs where they attach to case.
> 
> Request better straight on movement photos
> a


Not to be rude but I think you should reconsider your involvement in this thread. The fact you think Panerai lugs are soldered on a Luminor case suggests your expertise in Panerai may be significantly lacking. I would also suggest asking the difference between a sausage and sandwich dial is a question that would be unexpected by someone giving advise regarding the authenticity of Panerai watches.

The 111E in questions looks authentic from everything I can see.


----------



## rolex116509rb

Yeah it was the best photos i could get,not excellent but thank you so much for your help


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

johneh said:


> No offence man, but you don't know what you're talking about. It's 100% genuine. DRSTER is a pretty prolific seller on the forums, I highly doubt he'd ruin his rep by selling fakes.


i was in no way critiquing the seller,
As I pointed out the dial and movement looked perfect, but the case lugs, looked poorly done, and that they did not appear Panerai quality.
the OP can therefore decide for better pictures or research.
For certain Panerai fakes are among some of the best

adam


----------



## johneh

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> i was in no way critiquing the seller,As I pointed out the dial and movement looked perfect, but the case lugs, looked poorly done, and that they did not appear Panerai quality.the OP can therefore decide for better pictures or research.For certain Panerai fakes are among some of the bestadam


The lugs might be a little dirty, but they're fine. As another poster pointed out, the fact that you think the lugs are soldered onto a Luminor case speaks volumes about your PAM knowledge.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Ok.
Soldered -->Joined. On original Panerai they have very clear and defined contours where the lugs are attached (joined) to the case.

These are four DIFFERENT counterfeit cases:


And here - again ALL fake:

*
Now this is a genuine Panerai, and I checked two genuine pieces to-day:*


Now the OP can decide based on all the info. All I was doing was pointing out the facts as I see them and as you now say "The lugs may be a little dirty, but they are fine" That is great and your opinion.

OP can decide or request more photos.
Adam

Acknowlegements and Research: Replica Watch Info - Pam Luminor Review
https://www...................../vb...SETS-Noob-vs-KW-vs-H-maker-ALE-Klockis-Review


----------



## s7zwatch

Replica and in the first photo you can see the culprits face. Someone who knows how to try and hide the fact that it is one also
In regards to item number 252194465791


----------



## drster

Arrow269 said:


> Having issues quoting the post above - but the fact that the 111 has a painted dial is not a tell that it's a fake.
> 
> If I am not mistaken, the earlier 111 and 177 (and likely the 112 and 176) had painted dials.


I think you are discussing my 111E I had for sale. You are correct. The 111 E serial always had a painted dial. And it is genuine.


----------



## Arrow269

drster said:


> I think you are discussing my 111E I had for sale. You are correct. The 111 E serial always had a painted dial. And it is genuine.


If it was yours - then shame you let it go! I always loved the earlier base models without the sandwich dials.

Thanks for verifying me


----------



## Arrow269

Here's an interesting one. This was back when I had a 104 and some schmuck tried pulling a fast one on a buddy of mine. Luckily I came to compare the two. Here's a shot of them side by side.

Can you tell the difference?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Closed 6


----------



## Arrow269

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Closed 6


Good eye. However the closed 6 is not a tell that one is a rep. Apparently there are 104's that have the open and there are also ones with the the closed 6.

I'm curious to know if anyone knows specific serials that the 6 was closed...

Now can you guys tell which is gen or fake?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Arrow269 said:


> Good eye. However the closed 6 is not a tell that one is a rep. Apparently there are 104's that have the open and there are also ones with the the closed 6.
> 
> I'm curious to know if anyone knows specific serials that the 6 was closed...
> 
> Now can you guys tell which is gen or fake?


From circa 2006 it moved to a closed 6
From what I could learn, after the I series (J), the 6 on the 104 changed from open to closed

But as you say both styles can be found.
The photos you post are not good enough for a definitive statement, but I believe the one on the left (closed 6) is the genuine watch - correct?
Refgards


----------



## ianho

Damn these reps are getting good. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ianho said:


> Damn these reps are getting good.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes they are!
a


----------



## ianho

An friend of mine came to me with this yesterday. Bought from eBay...knowing I'd got a Pam, he wanted me to have a look at this for him. I'm still not sure...what do you think? 

































Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Its a FAKE.
He should immediately claim


----------



## ianho

I thought as much, I told him that these were exclusive to boutiques at the moment. He paid nearly £1.5k for it as well! Which was another thing that didn't ring true. 
I can't wait to ring him! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ianho said:


> I thought as much, I told him that these were exclusive to boutiques at the moment. He paid nearly £1.5k for it as well! Which was another thing that didn't ring true.
> I can't wait to ring him!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Surely a fake.
With eBay he should get buyer protection
Sorry
a


----------



## ianho

He received it a couple of days ago, and brought it round last night to mine. Since I've bought a Pam all my friends want one! He was going to take it to a jewellers to get it authenticated. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ianho said:


> He received it a couple of days ago, and brought it round last night to mine. Since I've bought a Pam all my friends want one! He was going to take it to a jewellers to get it authenticated.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Keep us updated.
My statement is Fake.


----------



## Arrow269

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> From circa 2006 it moved to a closed 6
> From what I could learn, after the I series (J), the 6 on the 104 changed from open to closed
> 
> But as you say both styles can be found.
> The photos you post are not good enough for a definitive statement, but I believe the one on the left (closed 6) is the genuine watch - correct?
> Refgards


Actually the one on the right is the gen. I didn't have time to snap more detailed pictures. But let's just say that you need to be careful. The reps are getting quite good.

The hints that I took were the cyclops. The real 104 had far more clarity. And something is just slightly off with the numbers on the rep.


----------



## Arrow269

ianho said:


> I thought as much, I told him that these were exclusive to boutiques at the moment. He paid nearly £1.5k for it as well! Which was another thing that didn't ring true.
> I can't wait to ring him!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That watch has replica all over it.


----------



## Bkro

The one on the left has a sharp crown guard lever and a cheap shiny strap. I have seen a few in person and a dead give away is usually the crown guard.


----------



## Arrow269

Bkro said:


> The one on the left has a sharp crown guard lever and a cheap shiny strap. I have seen a few in person and a dead give away is usually the crown guard.


Good eyes my friend.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Bkro said:


> The one on the left has a sharp crown guard lever and a cheap shiny strap. I have seen a few in person and a dead give away is usually the crown guard.


Agreed


----------



## Dahaxx

Hey guys. Can someone tell me if my Panerai Luminor is legit or replica?


















Got it cheap some years ago and didn't doubt it but lately i've been trying to find matching models on the internet which havent been a succes so i got a little curious to wether or not its a replica.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Its fake


----------



## Dahaxx

What gives it away if you care to elaborate?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Dahaxx said:


> What gives it away if you care to elaborate?


Chronograph counter with 24 hours, movement and case


----------



## Dahaxx

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Chronograph counter with 24 hours, movement and case


Is it the color of the parts or the shape that gives it away? comparing to other (real) Luminors i can't see the faults. Im still a noob so im hoping to learn some more about spotting fakes.


----------



## bigclive2011

We tend not to elaborate over how fakes are fakes.

After all how do we know you are not the faker looking for tips on how to improve yours??

Price, box and papers are normally a good indicator, if it has all these then pop it into an AD and they will tell you.

Yours has a cheap movement as a dead giveaway.


----------



## ianho

If you look at the movement, the centre screw is off. The back plate would also be black. The lume painting looks to bright as well. The second hand isn't good either. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dahaxx

bigclive2011 said:


> We tend not to elaborate over how fakes are fakes.
> 
> After all how do we know you are not the faker looking for tips on how to improve yours??
> 
> Price, box and papers are normally a good indicator, if it has all these then pop it into an AD and they will tell you.
> 
> Yours has a cheap movement as a dead giveaway.


Haha fair enough, i got the watch on a study travel to china some months ago and thought it looked genuine enough But i guess you can always tell if you are really into it. anyways thanks for the answers.


----------



## marblestone

I like these guys, whose only messages are only in this tread, showing a fake Panerai and asking what are giveaways. 

Yes kind sir, we will kindly inform you about your replica's giveaways so you can improve your business. Lol


----------



## ianho

marblestone said:


> I like these guys, whose only messages are only in this tread, showing a fake Panerai and asking what are giveaways.
> 
> Yes kind sir, we will kindly inform you about your replica's giveaways so you can improve your business. Lol


Reverse psychology...we could just tell em they're perfect in ever way possible

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

bigclive2011 said:


> We tend not to elaborate over how fakes are fakes.
> 
> After all how do we know you are not the faker looking for tips on how to improve yours??
> 
> Price, box and papers are normally a good indicator, if it has all these then pop it into an AD and they will tell you.
> 
> Yours has a cheap movement as a dead giveaway.


In this case a blind man could practically tell, I didn't give anything away.
a


----------



## T1meout

ianho said:


> I thought as much, I told him that these were exclusive to boutiques at the moment. He paid nearly £1.5k for it as well! Which was another thing that didn't ring true.
> I can't wait to ring him!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I don't think your friend was misled. He got exactly what he paid for. 1,5k for a limited boutique edition pam? What a joke. If he thought it was genuine, he is either uninformed, or greedy. Either way he should have done his homework before pulling the trigger.


----------



## T1meout

Dahaxx said:


> Hey guys. Can someone tell me if my Panerai Luminor is legit or replica?
> View attachment 6334850
> View attachment 6334858
> View attachment 6334866
> Got it cheap some years ago and didn't doubt it but lately i've been trying to find matching models on the internet which havent been a succes so i got a little curious to wether or not its a replica.


The fact you bought it on a street corner is a dead giveaway.


----------



## peenoise

Dahaxx said:


> Hey guys. Can someone tell me if my Panerai Luminor is legit or replica?
> View attachment 6334850
> View attachment 6334858
> View attachment 6334866
> Got it cheap some years ago and didn't doubt it but lately i've been trying to find matching models on the internet which havent been a succes so i got a little curious to wether or not its a replica.


Look at the finishing of the movement.. Obviously a fake one..

Nice replica btw.. From afar it can look genuine not unless put under scrutiny, so wear it in good health..

Sent via post office using snail mail.


----------



## Eddy1950

Greetings all - wonderful website, and I've learnt a lot about Panerai this evening reading your forum.

So im after opinion on this PAM 177watch - real or fake? I note the incabloc is not right, and I've tracked the serial to 2007. However I'm still unsure one way or the other. Many many thanks in advance for your opinions.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hi
The movement photos are not good enough (for me anyway) to see the shock protection.
Is the shock protection ETA or Incabloc? If not Incabloc then fake! Next the "anglage" on the plates does not look Panerai quality?
Finally the crown guard is not attaching perfectly to the case, nor is the stud flush.
Add all that up, and I am saying fake.
Please post a good photo of balance wheel/shock protection and swan neck regulator to fully decide

Adam


----------



## Eddy1950

Wow thanks for quick response Adam. Will wait till I can get decent daylight. Looking at the shape of the Incabloc it is straight and not Y shaped as I have seen on others. Not too sure what you mean by "anglage" of plates??? Yes you are right about crown guard.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Eddy1950 said:


> Wow thanks for quick response Adam. Will wait till I can get decent daylight. Looking at the shape of the Incabloc it is straight and not Y shaped as I have seen on others. Not too sure what you mean by "anglage" of plates??? Yes you are right about crown guard.


Straight is Fake = NO doubt

Anglage
Beveling, or creating an angled edge, on a movement component such as a bridge. Anglage is performed either mechanically with a pantographic engraver or manually with a hand-held file. Ideally, the angle on the edges should measure precisely 45 degrees. Anglage is usually a feature of high-quality movements.


----------



## Wlover

Eddy1950 said:


> Wow thanks for quick response Adam. Will wait till I can get decent daylight. Looking at the shape of the Incabloc it is straight and not Y shaped as I have seen on others. Not too sure what you mean by "anglage" of plates??? Yes you are right about crown guard.


No need for decent lighting. It's a fake. Please throw it into the fireplace.


----------



## rolex116509rb

hi All
I Believe this watch to be authentic but I still wanted to get some input from other members,sorry about the low quality pixs thanks a lot


----------



## MattyMac

rolex116509rb said:


> hi All
> I Believe this watch to be authentic but I still wanted to get some input from other members,sorry about the low quality pixs thanks a lot


This one is fake as well


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Very poor photos, but from what I can see - Fake!

Why you think its genuine?
Adam


----------



## rolex116509rb

oh wow thanks for your response i assumed it was real based on the incabloc as well as rest of the movement!!!I guess its best to always check it with a jeweller to be on the safe side!!!


----------



## DieSkim

http://www.chrono24.com.au/panerai/luminor-3-days-1950-gmt-ceramic-new--id2827461.htm 
check out this bad boy!


----------



## Synequano

That might be a real 441 but taking the pic with the rubber thing is pure laziness


----------



## poisonwazthecure

This thread should be titled, "How good is my replica?". lol


----------



## R1P

poisonwazthecure said:


> This thread should be titled, "How good is my replica?". lol


No kidding!!!


----------



## celo21

Was looking for a legit check on a PAM183.


----------



## DieSkim

Need better photos!


----------



## T1meout

Yep. Those are terrible looking pictures.


----------



## postman10mm

Looking at a J series 210 that would ship from outside the US, what do you think?


----------



## T1meout

Looks alright, but I'd really like to see a closeup picture of that balance wheel.


----------



## Mirabello1

rolex116509rb said:


> oh wow thanks for your response i assumed it was real based on the incabloc as well as rest of the movement!!!I guess its best to always check it with a jeweller to be on the safe side!!!


Jewelers won't always know from past experience you'll get a better answer here


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

postman10mm said:


> Looking at a J series 210 that would ship from outside the US, what do you think?
> 
> View attachment 6614698


GREAT photos well done.
In my opinion; Genuine - movement is 100% correct

PS: Care to mail me those photos at 
[email protected]
a


----------



## Reinermaxx

Wondering if this panerai is authentic thanks for all the help!


----------



## Reinermaxx

Also wondering if this watch is authentic thanks


----------



## T1meout

I'd have to go with fake, unless you can provide me with better pictures of the movement.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Maxxr64594 said:


> Also wondering if this watch is authentic thanks
> View attachment 6621954
> View attachment 6621962


Photos not good enoughh to confirm exactly, but looks fake from what I can make out on movement
adam


----------



## Reinermaxx

Looking to purchase this item, would like an idea if it's authenti






c...

1950 Pam 312


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Not great photos, but it does not look genuine to me.
Meant to be using Panerai latest in house p.9000 movement that is pure quality and looks like this
https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...hXFWh4KHZsjBnoQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=5XLH2i91xyzL8M:

The dial also looks very inferior!
a


----------



## Reinermaxx

I should mention this is not a new watch, it's from eBay indicated from 2010


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Maxxr64594 said:


> I should mention this is not a new watch, it's from eBay indicated from 2010


It surely does not look new!
Needs better photos of movement and dial.
The movement photo, that I can make out does not give me confidence, the crown guard stud on yours does not give me confidence

Panerais are well made watches, without gaps and poor anglage

A


----------



## Reinermaxx

Here are spmeore photos


----------



## Reinermaxx

Any ideas?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

The photos do not help too blurry. 
But the pin on crown guard in photo 3 is not Panerai quality. 

To to me with what I see, it's fake. Sorry.


----------



## T1meout

Edit. It may be real on closer inspection. Need a headshot of the movement with balance exposed. Fake or not, it appears to be in awful condition.


----------



## qualityiskey

Trying to figure out if this watch is real


----------



## qualityiskey

Won't let me upload pictures


----------



## Reinermaxx

Real or fake?

watch is from 2012


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Maxxr64594 said:


> View attachment 6652970
> Real or fake?
> 
> watch is from 2012


Where are you finding these watches?
More useless blurry photos - surely not the same seller.

Once again the crown guard pin looks very poor and hence suspect, but without decent movement and case photos, its nearly impossible to tell.
a


----------



## qualityiskey

I can't seen to upload my pictures


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

qualityiskey said:


> I can't seen to upload my pictures


I "think" you need some 6 or 10 posts. Not sure.
a


----------



## qualityiskey

I picked up this watch years ago and never really got it check for authenticity


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

qualityiskey said:


> I picked up this watch years ago and never really got it check for authenticity


No one "just picks up a Panerai" not knowing if its genuine

Yours is a fake, based on the movement and case photo
a


----------



## qualityiskey

I purchased it off a friend of mine that had just purchased from a guy at a pawn shop that was trying to sell it.


----------



## qualityiskey

Is it a good fake or paper weight fake ?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

qualityiskey said:


> I purchased it off a friend of mine that had just purchased from a guy at a pawn shop that was trying to sell it.


The relevant word was "trying". Just joking.
Its a fake
a


----------



## DieSkim

Fake is fake. No need to define.


----------



## peenoise

qualityiskey said:


> Is it a good fake or paper weight fake ?


How much you paid for that wannabe pam

Sent via post office using snail mail.


----------



## Reinermaxx

This photo doesn't help?


----------



## Ruby8six

qualityiskey said:


> Is it a good fake or paper weight fake ?


Thats a paper weight right there man. Sorry, but it's terrible. Look at the strap and buckle. Case movement doesn't look even close to a 111 which I guess what it is trying to replicate. Look at the seconds how they collide with the marina and panerai markings. You should burn this thing, sorry.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Maxxr64594 said:


> This photo doesn't help?


Look, I don't see any glaring error on that photo, except the crown guard stud.
but overall, I can not see anything well enough to say " yes go buy it"

I don't like the crown guard stud, so I (personally) need non blurry photos.
maybe others will pipe in
a


----------



## Synequano

That fake watch with display back is trying to replicate 104 I presume,the seconds subdial on 7750 based movt are more centered than 6497,however real 104 has date and cyclops

And it looks as though the rotor is loose...


----------



## Reinermaxx

Here are some photos of the crown, what are your thoughts


----------



## Reinermaxx

These were for the same piece


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

OK
I can not see anything glaringly wrong with movement OR dial.
The crown guard pin on the back compares OK with genuine.
The crown guard pin on front should be like this:
https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...B-MbzuUiM:&usg=__svwxwTvPoQaJxSzJ8jRluMBRIfs=

Overal, I think the watch is genuine

That is just my opinion based on not perfect photos, and not seeing/feeling the watch
But it is to me most likely genuine

A


----------



## Wlover

I think you are a joke. I clicked on your link and the picture is from a replica watch website. And the picture of the "genuine" from your link is a fake.



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> OK
> I can not see anything glaringly wrong with movement OR dial.
> The crown guard pin on the back compares OK with genuine.
> The crown guard pin on front should be like this:
> https://www.google.es/search?q=Panerai+OP+6727&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&imgil=wl3mD0KAvp_ZTM%253A%253Bqoqr3LCvG2yrlM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.de%25252Fitm%25252FPANERAI-LUMINOR-MARINA-44-EDELSTAHL-WEISS-LEDERBAND-PAM-113-%25252F350524076797&source=iu&pf=m&fir=wl3mD0KAvp_ZTM%253A%252Cqoqr3LCvG2yrlM%252C_&usg=__svwxwTvPoQaJxSzJ8jRluMBRIfs%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj51InW-KjKAhVMnRoKHfFqDRUQyjcIJw&ei=EmSXVvmDO8y6avHVtagB#imgrc=ErFLO5QJ3HkQ-M%3A&usg=__svwxwTvPoQaJxSzJ8jRluMBRIfs%3D
> 
> Overal, I think the watch is genuine
> 
> That is just my opinion based on not perfect photos, and not seeing/feeling the watch
> But it is to me most likely genuine
> 
> A


----------



## Reinermaxx

S my good sir what are your thought s about the watch I posted and that he commented on....is it genuine?


----------



## Wlover

My advice is this...

1. Only buy from trusted dealers. That's important.
2. Always ask for full set including matching paperwork as far as possible.
3. If dealing in person (which is always preferred), get the watch authenticated if you have doubt.

Personally I've not purchased a watch over $2,000 online (and shipped to me) before so my opinion may be slightly biased. It depends on your level of confidence dealing with online sellers. As for me, I only deal face to face. Better safe than sorry.



Maxxr64594 said:


> S my good sir what are your thought s about the watch I posted and that he commented on....is it genuine?


----------



## Wlover

My advice is this...

1. Only buy from trusted dealers. That's important.
2. Always ask for full set including matching paperwork as far as possible.
3. If dealing in person (which is always preferred), get the watch authenticated if you have doubt.

Personally I've not purchased a watch over $2,000 online (and shipped to me) before so my opinion may be slightly biased. It depends on your level of confidence dealing with online sellers. As for me, I only deal face to face. Better safe than sorry.



Maxxr64594 said:


> S my good sir what are your thought s about the watch I posted and that he commented on....is it genuine?


----------



## DieSkim

Wlover said:


> My advice is this...
> 
> 1. Only buy from trusted dealers. That's important.
> 2. Always ask for full set including matching paperwork as far as possible.
> 3. If dealing in person (which is always preferred), get the watch authenticated if you have doubt.
> 
> Personally I've not purchased a watch over $2,000 online (and shipped to me) before so my opinion may be slightly biased. It depends on your level of confidence dealing with online sellers. As for me, I only deal face to face. Better safe than sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Sound advise. This thread is useless.
> If you have any reason to doubt the authenticity, it is likely fake. So why hope? Get a real watch and enjoy it.
Click to expand...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Maxxr64594 said:


> S my good sir what are your thought s about the watch I posted and that he commented on....is it genuine?


Exactly!
and clicking on the page to my link take you to RWG - Fine watches Fine People here:
https://rwg.cc/topic/156502-111-is-done

A


----------



## Wlover

You have any idea what site RWG is? sheesh.



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Exactly!
> and clicking on the page to my link take you to RWG - Fine watches Fine People here:
> https://rwg.cc/topic/156502-111-is-done
> 
> That is a genuine piece to see the crown guard pin.
> A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Wlover said:


> You have any idea what site RWG is? sheesh.


OK got you now - you are correct, my bad.

https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...B-MbzuUiM:&usg=__svwxwTvPoQaJxSzJ8jRluMBRIfs=
.


----------



## snuff337

The Canadian used Panerai market is pretty abysmal, so I had to get my 510 off of ebay. It arrives tomorrow. From the pictures posted it looks pretty legit, same with the seller, but as a final test, if the power reserve actually lasts 8 days is it pretty safe to say it's real? I dont think any reps can come close to that yet.


----------



## RobbyCC

Maxxr64594 said:


> View attachment 6626818
> View attachment 6626842
> View attachment 6626850
> Here are spmeore photos


Blurry pix, but looks real to me for reasons discernible even with blurriness. If this is a PAM 312, it should be using the P9000 movement, which your watch indicates is the case. When viewed from the back and the crown to the left, the P9000's gold-colored balance wheel is close to the top and easily visible, and is located at the 5 o'clock position. All the reps I know of use either a 7750 clone or a Seagull movement. Both have more hidden balance wheels buried deeper in the movement, and both are incorrectly positioned. The 7750 is a dead giveaway because the balance wheel is at 1 o'clock, and the Seagull is very close at 6 o'clock, but it's highly suggestive from both these features that your pics are of a genuine P9000 movement. Could one take a genuine P9000 movement and stick it in a rep case? Presumably, but why? Only for a very high value P9000-based watch like the Bronzo would that approach make sense.


----------



## Synequano

The fake world can be crazy,once I saw a 372 with correct box and papers but it's a fake...the P3000,dial,hands,plexi and caseback with serials are the same but the case is not SS but cheap base metal that peeled off and rust


----------



## Reinermaxx

Thoughts?


----------



## Wlover

Maxxr64594 said:


> Thoughts?


Real but I couldn't help but wonder if u have bought since you have posted many models recently. Lol.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

All the signs looks genuine to me
A


----------



## Reinermaxx

I just received it yesterday off of ebay


----------



## snuff337

Purchased off ebay from what seems like a reputable private seller. On 5th day of power and still going strong, but always good to have peace of mind. 

Thanks!


----------



## DieSkim

Seeing the font on the movement, I would say congrats!


----------



## mustang333

sorry its a fake


----------



## DieSkim

mustang333 said:


> sorry its a fake


:-s which fake are you referring to?


----------



## mustang333

i was referring to another post but somehow it was inserted here all the above seem ok sorry


----------



## Budge28

Any thoughts


----------



## T1meout

Is it a K series 40mm PAM 282? It could be real, but we need way better pics.


----------



## Budge28

Yes it is. I'll try get better pics,


----------



## ndrewh

Looks fake to me 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Budge28

What makes you say that ndrewh


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ndrewh said:


> Looks fake to me
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Care to elaborate? 
Appreciated
adam


----------



## ndrewh

Sorry budge
I saw the photo from the preview . The cyclops and date didn't look of correct size and magnification 
Please post or request Full set pictures 
Also if you can get originals that would help a lot



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Budge28

Bit better


----------



## m630

Real deal, the nicest blue dial PAM has offered this far. The sunburst is stunning in person, my 283 says hi


----------



## WG_John

Greetings,

need your help on this one, since there is a lot of really good 111 fakes out there: It's J series, so Cotes de Geneve movement and sandwich dial are all ok, but...is it real?


----------



## Zein_Haris

WG_John said:


> Greetings,
> 
> need your help on this one, since there is a lot of really good 111 fakes out there: It's J series, so Cotes de Geneve movement and sandwich dial are all ok, but...is it real?


It's look legit. But wonder if it comes with boxes, screwdriver, manual book etc. because nowadays pam 111 rep looks indentical (with some mod)

Sent from my iPhone 6s using Tapatalk


----------



## WG_John

No, i'm afraid no box or papers on this one


----------



## Wlover

The polished case looks super beat up...


----------



## forbigger

Hi folks, with the amount of fakey and really good one, I get a bit giddy with the 183 I bought a year ago from grey dealer. Assuming box and paper matches and looks legit, you guys think this is the real thing ? Outside the strap ofcourse. Thank you in advance for any insights


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

WG_John said:


> Greetings,
> 
> need your help on this one, since there is a lot of really good 111 fakes out there: It's J series, so Cotes de Geneve movement and sandwich dial are all ok, but...is it real?


Based on movement and crown guard pin, it looks genuine to me
A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

forbigger said:


> Hi folks, with the amount of fakey and really good one, I get a bit giddy with the 183 I bought a year ago from grey dealer. Assuming box and paper matches and looks legit, you guys think this is the real thing ? Outside the strap ofcourse. Thank you in advance for any insights


Based on movement, it looks legit to me
Adam


----------



## forbigger

thanks Adam. Thats a relief


----------



## Slash-5

How about this one? I bought it, but I'm overseas right now, so I wont see it for a bit...and after I found a thread here talking about how good the fakes are, ya'll got me seriously paranoid. I can't get bigger images right now. No box/papers. Good price. I see the dings and the re-polish, but I'm looking for a daily wearer, not a safe queen. Please be gentle, I'm a NEEWB.  The gentleman has sold on a few watch sites, and has a good rep. Very reponsive an polite.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Slash-5 said:


> How about this one? I bought it, but I'm overseas right now, so I wont see it for a bit...and after I found a thread here talking about how good the fakes are, ya'll got me seriously paranoid. I can't get bigger images right now. No box/papers. Good price. I see the dings and the re-polish, but I'm looking for a daily wearer, not a safe queen. Please be gentle, I'm a NEEWB.  The gentleman has sold on a few watch sites, and has a good rep. Very reponsive an polite.
> 
> View attachment 7031321
> 
> View attachment 7031529
> 
> View attachment 7031537


From case, crown guard, watch looks correct, in my opinion
Need a movement photo to confirm


----------



## Slash-5

Thank you. Got paranoid for a minute.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Slash-5 said:


> Thank you. Got paranoid for a minute.


From what I can see, it seems good, but I have no movement photo.
others may chime in later
a


----------



## Wlover

Looks good. You can use your hp camera to zoom in on the balance wheel. Right under it you should see the eta logo engraved on the base plate.



forbigger said:


> Hi folks, with the amount of fakey and really good one, I get a bit giddy with the 183 I bought a year ago from grey dealer. Assuming box and paper matches and looks legit, you guys think this is the real thing ? Outside the strap ofcourse. Thank you in advance for any insights


----------



## MattyMac

forbigger said:


> Hi folks, with the amount of fakey and really good one, I get a bit giddy with the 183 I bought a year ago from grey dealer. Assuming box and paper matches and looks legit, you guys think this is the real thing ? Outside the strap ofcourse. Thank you in advance for any insights


This 183 is legit


----------



## ericw82

Hi all, can anyone advise if these look correct for a PAM112 from ~2007, particularly the movement pic? Thanks in advance!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ericw82 said:


> Hi all, can anyone advise if these look correct for a PAM112 from ~2007, particularly the movement pic? Thanks in advance!
> 
> View attachment 7067018
> 
> View attachment 7067034
> 
> View attachment 7067066


From my side, it all looks good, my only point is I can not see the full shape of the gold incabloc protection spring - strange?
adam


----------



## DieSkim

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ericw82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all, can anyone advise if these look correct for a PAM112 from ~2007, particularly the movement pic? Thanks in advance!
> 
> [iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7067018&d=1455475782"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]
> [iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7067034&d=1455475793"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]
> [iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7067066&d=1455475818"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]
> 
> 
> 
> From my side, it all looks good, my only point is I can not see the full shape of the gold incabloc protection spring - strange?
> adam
Click to expand...

 Bodged service following trauma?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

DieSkim said:


> Bodged service following trauma?


Maybe, either way, it gives me some concern?
adam


----------



## DieSkim

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> DieSkim said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bodged service following trauma?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, either way, it gives me some concern?
> adam
Click to expand...

Agree, I would not feel comfortable purchasing without understanding the reason for the present discrepancy.


----------



## RobDeep

Looks good to me. I just got an 8 days, looks the same


----------



## DieSkim

RobDeep said:


> Looks good to me. I just got an 8 days, looks the same


Your incablock looks the same with half the spring?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

RobDeep said:


> Looks good to me. I just got an 8 days, looks the same


The movement - swan neck regulator, incabloc type shock protection, and anglage all look correct- BUT the ETA incabloc (gold) spring looks like part is missing? It should look a bit like a figure 8 or go across the jewel.

Can you post a photo of your balance wheel with the shock protection?

Thanks in advance
adam


----------



## ericw82

Thank you everyone with your comments! The watch isn't in my possession yet but I'll ask the seller for more pics of the movement at different angles.


----------



## Zein_Haris

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> The movement - swan neck regulator, incabloc type shock protection, and anglage all look correct- BUT the ETA incabloc (gold) spring looks like part is missing? It should look a bit like a figure 8 or go across the jewel.
> 
> Can you post a photo of your balance wheel with the shock protection?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> adam


Yup the gold spring looks like it's missing, and the CG lever is abit high judging from the pictures

Sent from my iPhone 6s using Tapatalk


----------



## ericw82

Hi guys, I decided to not go through with the purchase. Aside from the problems with the movement pic, the seller just seems a bit off in my interactions with him.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ericw82 said:


> Thank you everyone with your comments! The watch isn't in my possession yet but I'll ask the seller for more pics of the movement at different angles.


Can you ask the seller, what happened to the incabloc protection, part is missing, was the watch dropped or serviced?
a


----------



## ericw82

It turns out I was right. I did a Google search on the name that the seller provided and it's the same one used by a known scammer, Thomas Smola/Smolanza.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ericw82 said:


> It turns out I was right. I did a Google search on the name that the seller provided and it's the same one used by a known scammer, Thomas Smola/Smolanza.


Interesting - as I pointed out "something" was not right with that incabloc - the rest looked pretty darn good
a


----------



## T1meout

I'm always happy when a scam attempt gets foiled. My complements to my fellow members for their keen eye and critical scrutiny.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

T1meout said:


> I'm always happy when a scam attempt gets foiled. My complements to my fellow members for their keen eye and critical scrutiny.


me too - truly its great!
That watch is strange, movement/swan neck/anglage all looked good and it is the ETA incabloc - but something mighty strange the incabloc spring - maybe even a cracked jewel.

End result was correctly achieved
a


----------



## Wlover

I've had the panerai 210 with the unitas movement which is same as the 112 for quite a while now and I loved looking at the case back which imo I think panerai does one of the best decorations for this movement.

Since I've looked at the movement so much I'm pretty sure the movement is real.

If one has dealt with this movement enough u will know that at some angles the full incabloc may not catch the light and some parts may not be visible due to angle and lighting.

Ericw82 although u thought the seller may be associated with a scammer this case back just looks too good to me.

If it's a fake then wow.... kudos to the fake maker. I really take my hat off.

To prove my point, here are 2 shots of my (same) watch under different lighting condition and angle.
















Cheers



ericw82 said:


> Hi all, can anyone advise if these look correct for a PAM112 from ~2007, particularly the movement pic? Thanks in advance!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Wlover - Hi
Firstly BOTH your photos I can see (easily) the full gold incabloc spring. Even though you tried in 2nd photo to hide it, it is clearly there.

Secondly, I never said the OP watch was a fake, indeed I stated all looked good, "the swan neck, movement, correct ETA incabloc and anglage" BUT there was something strange that the gold spring was not fully intact.

I felt it was correct to point that out.
I agree if this watch is "fake" its the best I ever saw

Thanks your excellent photos


----------



## T1meout

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Wlover - Hi
> Firstly BOTH your photos I can see (easily) the full gold incabloc spring. Even though you tried in 2nd photo to hide it, it is clearly there.
> 
> Secondly, I never said the OP watch was a fake, indeed I stated all looked good, "the swan neck, movement, correct ETA incabloc and anglage" BUT there was something strange that the gold spring was not fully intact.
> 
> I felt it was correct to point that out.
> I agree if this watch is "fake" its the best I ever saw
> 
> Thanks your excellent photos


Agree 100%. The gold spring is partially missing and the jewel looks cracked. So, when in doubt, good or not, move on.


----------



## Wlover

1st. I never tried. It's just lighting and angle.
2nd. I never said u did. Not sure why u are addressing to me...



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Wlover - Hi
> Firstly BOTH your photos I can see (easily) the full gold incabloc spring. Even though you tried in 2nd photo to hide it, it is clearly there.
> 
> Secondly, I never said the OP watch was a fake, indeed I stated all looked good, "the swan neck, movement, correct ETA incabloc and anglage" BUT there was something strange that the gold spring was not fully intact.
> 
> I felt it was correct to point that out.
> I agree if this watch is "fake" its the best I ever saw
> 
> Thanks your excellent photos


----------



## ridley

Wlover, my thoughts exactly. If you look carefully you can see the legs of the gold spring clip, also if it were missing It's likely the jewel would have fallen out.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ridley said:


> Wlover, my thoughts exactly. If you look carefully you can see the legs of the gold spring clip, also if it were missing It's likely the jewel would have fallen out.


Could you point out on the OPs movement where you can see "the legs of the gold spring clip"? I am very interested to see where you see them.
Thanks in advance
adam


----------



## ridley

Hi,

They are we're you would expect to see them, not clear though, but if you enlarge image they are there.

cheers
Simon


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ridley said:


> Hi,
> 
> They are we're you would expect to see them, not clear though, but if you enlarge image they are there.
> 
> cheers
> Simon


No, I do not think so!
Here is the maxm blow up of the incabloc, please show me where the full spring is.

*Here is the OP one that is clearly missing the full gold spring.*

*BROKEN*

*Here is a correct fully fitted spring:*

* GOOD/CORRECT*

Now please point out or post a photo showing where the OP (original poster) full spring is?!?
Adam


----------



## Wlover

It's ok ridley. Let's not fuel this further.
We know what we are talking about. That's what matters.

Some people don't get it. Check earlier posts or other brand forums and you will know what I mean.

Cheers.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Wlover said:


> It's ok ridley. Let's not fuel this further.
> We know what we are talking about. That's what matters.
> 
> Some people don't get it. Check earlier posts or other brand forums and you will know what I mean.
> 
> Cheers.


lol


----------



## ridley

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> No, I do not think so!
> Here is the maxm blow up of the incabloc, please show me where the full spring is.
> 
> *Here is the OP one that is clearly missing the full gold spring.*
> 
> 
> 
> *BROKEN*
> 
> *Here is a correct fully fitted spring:*
> 
> 
> * GOOD/CORRECT*
> 
> Now please point out or post a photo showing where the OP (original poster) full spring is?!?
> Adam


It is a bad picture for sure, but I can see the legs of the clip where they should be. We will have to agree to disagree ;-)

Simon


----------



## bobbee

Sorry Wlover, just had to chip in.

Here is a better blow up of the "half spring/broken jewel".







Nothing wrong, spring not broken, jewel whole. :roll:

Light reflecting on the "missing" bit of the "broken" jewel, you see it? Ends of arms of "snapped" gold retention spring can clearly be seen, exactly where they should be. They just look a little dark because of the angle, and a poor photo.
Light and shade have played a part in this misadventure, along with a touch of the old "Chicken Little" syndrome.


----------



## Wlover

Exactly what l'm talking about.



bobbee said:


> Sorry Wlover, just had to chip in.
> 
> Here is a better blow up of the "half spring/broken jewel".
> View attachment 7196842
> 
> Nothing wrong, spring not broken, jewel whole. :roll:
> 
> Light reflecting on the "missing" bit of the "broken" jewel, you see it? Ends of arms of "snapped" gold retention spring can clearly be seen, exactly where they should be. They just look a little dark because of the angle, and a poor photo.
> Light and shade have played a part in this misadventure, along with a touch of the old "Chicken Little" syndrome.


----------



## Wlover

Oh by the way bobbee, not sure why you address to me since you are making the same point as me. Cheers.


----------



## bobbee

Wlover said:


> Oh by the way bobbee, not sure why you address to me since you are making the same point as me. Cheers.


Because of your comment here. ;-)



> It's ok ridley. Let's not fuel this further.
> We know what we are talking about. That's what matters.
> 
> Some people don't get it. Check earlier posts or other brand forums and you will know what I mean.
> 
> Cheers.


I couldn't help but "fuel it further", as the penny obviously hadn't dropped in some quarters.

Love your current watch choices by the way, great diversity and taste.

B.


----------



## T1meout

bobbee said:


> Because of your comment here. ;-)
> 
> I couldn't help but "fuel it further", as the penny obviously hadn't dropped in some quarters.
> 
> Love your current watch choices by the way, great diversity and taste.
> 
> B.


If your so convinced it's not broken, why don't you buy it? Please indulge our curiosity and let us know how it all worked out for you.


----------



## bobbee

T1meout said:


> If your so convinced it's not broken, why don't you buy it? Please indulge our curiosity and let us know how it all worked out for you.


What a strange request! :roll:

If you have enough disposable income, why not buy it yourself then show us all just how "broken" it is? 
That surely makes as much sense.


----------



## capt_morgan

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

no, that is not real hahahahaha


----------



## T1meout

bobbee said:


> What a strange request! :roll:
> 
> If you have enough disposable income, why not buy it yourself then show us all just how "broken" it is?
> That surely makes as much sense.
> 
> View attachment 7228690


No it wouldn't, for I'm quite certain I'd be buying a lemon, whereas your convinced it is in primo condition.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

T1meout said:


> No it wouldn't, for I'm quite certain I'd be buying a lemon, whereas your convinced it is in primo condition.


Wise decision.
If you have a copy of the book "Real & Fake Watches" by Fabrice Gueroux have a look at page 199.
There you will see the same OP model, with this INcorrect shock protection and clearly marked "fake"

A


----------



## bobbee

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Wise decision.
> If you have a copy of the book "Real & Fake Watches" by Fabrice Gueroux have a look at page 199.
> There you will see the same OP model, with this INcorrect shock protection and clearly marked "fake"
> 
> A


What a ridiculous claim!

Anyone with decent vision can see that this:









above with retaining spring outlined:









Is EXACTLY the same as this:









The last is a blow-up of Wlover's picture on post #1082, page 109, a post you replied to saying "I never said the OP watch was a fake", and that you say you can "easily see the full gold incabloc spring"!

Please point out any differerences you can see, as they look almost identical (only difference I can see is the light reflection on Wlover's jewel appears to be from a window and is square) to me, a testimony to Wlover's marvellous ability to copy the OP watch photo in almost every detail, using his own genuine Panerai!

Are you sure you are not still using RWG site to identify watches, like here?

The "Is this Panerai real?" thread - Page 103


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

But its meant to look the like the bottom (correct) ETA type incabloc as shown here.
The OPs and every photo of it, has NOT the same gold (full) spring style incabloc!
https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/panerai-real-thread-802260-109.html#post25977138

This is a different style not used by Panerai.
However, if you can see the gold spring as per the correct ETA style shock protection, expanding across the whole jewel and coming out clearly at the far end (right hand side). Thats fine.

I can not. You can draw red lines, but they are NOT following or showing an identical same gold spring as the correct photo does!

and based on that, I add no more on this subject, readers/OP can decide

A


----------



## Wlover

bobbee said:


> What a ridiculous claim!
> 
> Are you sure you are not still using RWG site to identify watches, like here?
> 
> The "Is this Panerai real?" thread - Page 103


i remember barely 3 months back he asked a super noob question while advising people and sounding like a pro at the same time...

see this... 


HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Can youb explain your first point? What you mean by sausage versus sandwich?


Post #895, page 90, 2 Dec 2015. It was that post that got me worried that we've got the wrong guy giving advice.


----------



## Wlover

Some more embarrassing wrong calls...

Post #806, #808 #809, page 81, 18 Sept 2015:



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> What are you talking about?
> there should be 3 hands visible, two for hours and one minute hand.
> that watch has only 2 hands, as can be seen in your photos.
> 
> do you know what GMT means on a watch? Please explain your definition of GMt.
> 
> this watch is a fake!





DieSkim said:


> Check my photo ... You are seemingly an expert?





HOROLOGIST007 said:


> OK
> See the photo you mean now, and see it
> Checking


Post #810, page 81, 21 Sept 2015



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> OK
> see it but still a fake in my opinion based on what I can see!
> CERAMIC*A* versus CERAMIC (genuine)
> 
> And if your two photos are the same watch, please set GMT hand too a different hour time than the main hour hand, so I amy check its length and arrow style.





DieSkim said:


> Original: ceramica ... Please refer to MY photo or any panerai print. have you ever even seen a 441 in real life? The one shown is low digit R series, produced and delivered 2015 ... Your a fake mate


----------



## Wlover

And more embarrassing wrong calls....

Post #870, page 87, 20 November 2015



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Your movement seems to have the OP 9000 movement, that was never used (I believe) on that model of Panerai.
> It looks totally different
> 
> Here is yours under FAKES
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Pan...dyQIVQ0QmCh34tQaJ&dpr=1#imgrc=oM_6L_ki3C9-7M:
> a





ksakke said:


> Hi





ksakke said:


> according to this (Luminor Submersible 1950 3 Days Automatic Titanio - 47mm PAM00305 - Collection Luminor 1950 - Officine Panerai Watches) 305 has the P9000 movement. Here's a picture from the Panerai site and the fake you posted. Could you humor me and point the differences between the fake, the watch I posted yesterday and the real thing as I do not see them. Probably should go and have my eyes checked  And if anyone else wishes to chime in, go ahead!
> 
> -K





DieSkim said:


> I am yet to see what about this 305 seems fake.
> Would love for Horologist to elaborate, seeing he calls anything a fake.





HOROLOGIST007 said:


> OK, my bad, from my side I did not know that model also came in 9000 movement, so apologies there.
> 
> Once again, my error
> adam


As what I said in an earlier post, let's not fuel it further. Some people don't get it.


----------



## bobbee

Wow, I see your point, Wlover.
I am really wasting my time then, trying to explain anything or change anyones mind.

:roll:


----------



## vCardinal

Wlover said:


> And more embarrassing wrong calls....


You're doing the lord's work there friend. Misinformation could lead to a very costly mistake for our fellow WIS's.


----------



## bobbee

Too late.


----------



## DieSkim

The sentiment towards help offered here sucks. I do not appreciate others referencing me in an attack on another member.


----------



## Wlover

So sorry about that sir. Didn't mean to cause you any grief. My apologies. Think I'll just focus on the main panerai forums moving forward.

ALL THE BEST!



DieSkim said:


> The sentiment towards help offered here sucks. I do not appreciate others referencing me in an attack on another member.


----------



## T1meout

bobbee said:


> What a ridiculous claim!
> 
> Anyone with decent vision can see that this:
> 
> View attachment 7304722
> 
> 
> above with retaining spring outlined:
> 
> View attachment 7304738
> 
> 
> Is EXACTLY the same as this:
> 
> View attachment 7304746
> 
> 
> The last is a blow-up of Wlover's picture on post #1082, page 109, a post you replied to saying "I never said the OP watch was a fake", and that you say you can "easily see the full gold incabloc spring"!
> 
> Please point out any differerences you can see, as they look almost identical (only difference I can see is the light reflection on Wlover's jewel appears to be from a window and is square) to me, a testimony to Wlover's marvellous ability to copy the OP watch photo in almost every detail, using his own genuine Panerai!
> 
> Are you sure you are not still using RWG site to identify watches, like here?
> 
> The "Is this Panerai real?" thread - Page 103


Wlover did a great job at capturing only half the spring thanks to optimum lighting conditions and the angle at which his picture was taken. The picture provided by the OP however is taken almost straight from above. So unlike Wlover's picture there is no optical illusion. Half the spring is clearly missing and the jewel is cracked given the obvious discoloration half way through. The lighter portion of the jewel is indicative of lack of depth and its unevenly chipped. Also, shadowing on OPs picture starts well beyond the incabloc spring, so the entire incabloc spring should be visible.


----------



## bobbee

So ask the owner to sell it to you real cheap, then post the pics of the "cracked and chipped" jewel and the "snapped" incabloc spring.


----------



## T1meout

bobbee said:


> So ask the owner to sell it to you real cheap, then post the pics of the "cracked and chipped" jewel and the "snapped" incabloc spring.


Nah. I don't buy junk. Why don't you buy it if you are so certain its in perfect condition? I feel like we're going I circles here. Oh wait...we are.


----------



## bobbee

T1meout said:


> Nah. I don't buy junk. Why don't you buy it if you are so certain its in perfect condition? I feel like we're going I circles here. Oh wait...we are.


We agree on that at least. ;-)

Being as none of us are experts, these are merely opinions and not worth falling out over.


----------



## daryn

Evening all..

I'm new to this forum after purchasing a Panerai Luminor PAM 320 last week preowned from an AD in Glasgow. 

It's a November 2014 model which is Q series.

I have tried uploading pictures of it although it seems to fail. So I will just write my worries. After purchase I got home and had a proper look through all the paperwork. I found that in the guarantee book there is 2 pages with info of the watch on it. First page being the watch I.d - which all info seems to tie in with serial numbers of case, movement and also millesimation number. 

Although the sequential number beginning SM is around 300 out from the serial on back of case. When I turn to next page 'guarantee certificate' there is a sticker been put on the line where it says 'individual identification number of the watch' and this number ties in with the serial on the back of the watch.

Is this something I should be worried about? I have since phoned dealer and expressed my concerns. I will take watch back at weekend along with paperwork to have this sorted out. Or is this completely normal? 

I think I shouldn't have any worries of the authenticity of the watch as it is a panerai authorised dealer and it's the only one in Glasgow also.

Also should the watch come with a guarantee card like my rolex card? Or is it purely the cert in the book that you go by?

Thanks again.


----------



## daryn

I have added some pics also.





















Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


----------



## daryn

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


----------



## DieSkim

What I can see looks fine, but a good resolution shot of the movement will be worth while. Your shots are not that good when you start enlarging the image.


----------



## daryn

So I had it into the AD where I bought it from. They showed me the original photo copy of the certs they had taken before giving to customer. And also assured me they had put the sticker over the number with he correct number as they had made a clerical error by copying number from first page. 

So they have taken lots of photos and taken the book off of me and are sending it to panerai to have the book corrected. They shown me invoice for the watch been sent to their internal inter company watch maker for inspection upon taking the trade in. Also the gentleman I spoke to actually sold the watch to the original buyer back in late 2014. I feel so much more settled. Was panicking but to be honest I don't think an AD would risk their rep for one watch.

Thanks again guys. I will still get some high resolution images up tonight.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


----------



## RobbyCC

daryn said:


> So I had it into the AD where I bought it from. They showed me the original photo copy of the certs they had taken before giving to customer. And also assured me they had put the sticker over the number with he correct number as they had made a clerical error by copying number from first page. So they have taken lots of photos and taken the book off of me and are sending it to panerai to have the book corrected. They shown me invoice for the watch been sent to their internal inter company watch maker for inspection upon taking the trade in. Also the gentleman I spoke to actually sold the watch to the original buyer back in late 2014. I feel so much more settled. Was panicking but to be honest I don't think an AD would risk their rep for one watch. Thanks again guys. I will still get some high resolution images up tonight.


 The movement looks fine to me. The fake movement closest to the genuine is based on the Seagull ST2555, and is easily discernible because: 1. The balance wheel of the genuine is at 5pm instead of the fake's 6pm when the movement is viewed from the back with the top strap up. 2. The balance wheel of the genuine is clearly visible as being near the "top" of the movement, the fake's is buried. 3. The arm holding the balance wheel pivot of the genuine comes from the left. The fake's either comes from the right or if it comes from the left has a small non-moving shiny crappy looking fake gear in the secondary circular cutout at the 1pm position off the balance wheel.


----------



## daryn

RobbyCC said:


> The movement looks fine to me. The fake movement closest to the genuine is based on the Seagull ST2555, and is easily discernible because: 1. The balance wheel of the genuine is at 5pm instead of the fake's 6pm when the movement is viewed from the back with the top strap up. 2. The balance wheel of the genuine is clearly visible as being near the "top" of the movement, the fake's is buried. 3. The arm holding the balance wheel pivot of the genuine comes from the left. The fake's either comes from the right or if it comes from the left has a small non-moving shiny crappy looking fake gear in the secondary circular cutout at the 1pm position off the balance wheel.


Thanks Robby

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


----------



## RobbyCC

daryn said:


> Thanks Robby


To follow up, here's a pic:








In real life this movement looks very very well-finished and you'd have to know the indicators I posted to spot it. It's only about 1" across so the bits here that are obvious when magnified are tiny and easily overlooked to the naked and untrained eye.


----------



## daryn

Thanks again Robby. I have attached some pictures hopefully these are better. 

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


----------



## daryn

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


----------



## RobbyCC

Now I think you can obviously see the difference, the big giveaway for me is that you can see almost the whole balance wheel and it's right at the surface, the 5pm vs 6pm you could miss at a glance or be holding the watch slightly askew, and the fake gear is very small to the naked eye so you could miss it just looking at the bridge over it. There are other font. fill, and engraving issues, but those require a well-lit macro shot and are unimportant when movement fails the balance wheel test. Of course it's always possible that a fake contains a real movement in a cheap case, let's say a rare model with a small production run, but for the model you have that seems unlikely.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

RobbyCC said:


> Now I think you can obviously see the difference, the big giveaway for me is that you can see almost the whole balance wheel and it's right at the surface, the 5pm vs 6pm you could miss at a glance or be holding the watch slightly askew, and the fake gear is very small to the naked eye so you could miss it just looking at the bridge over it. There are other font. fill, and engraving issues, but those require a well-lit macro shot and are unimportant when movement fails the balance wheel test. Of course it's always possible that a fake contains a real movement in a cheap case, let's say a rare model with a small production run, but for the model you have that seems unlikely.


Excellent info/observations - thanks for sharing them.

What exactly is this?:
"small non-moving shiny crappy looking fake gear in the secondary circular cutout at the 1pm position off the balance wheel."

I could not find anything in my research that resembled that

Thanks in advance
adam


----------



## daryn

RobbyCC said:


> Now I think you can obviously see the difference, the big giveaway for me is that you can see almost the whole balance wheel and it's right at the surface, the 5pm vs 6pm you could miss at a glance or be holding the watch slightly askew, and the fake gear is very small to the naked eye so you could miss it just looking at the bridge over it. There are other font. fill, and engraving issues, but those require a well-lit macro shot and are unimportant when movement fails the balance wheel test. Of course it's always possible that a fake contains a real movement in a cheap case, let's say a rare model with a small production run, but for the model you have that seems unlikely.


So to conclude you would say mine is genuine? Thanks for all the info.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


----------



## daryn

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Excellent info/observations - thanks for sharing them.
> 
> What exactly is this?:
> "small non-moving shiny crappy looking fake gear in the secondary circular cutout at the 1pm position off the balance wheel."
> 
> I could not find anything in my research that resembled that
> 
> Thanks in advance
> adam


I second that!

Q series 2014 Panerai PAM320 - 116710LN 2010 Rolex GMT master II - 2016 Oris Pro pilot


----------



## RobbyCC

daryn said:


> So to conclude you would say mine is genuine? Thanks for all the info.


Well I'm not an expert in telling fakes from real, but I am very observant and researched, so all I can say is that the movement you posted is consistent with a real movement, and bears none of the obvious signs of a fake.


----------



## RobbyCC

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Excellent info/observations - thanks for sharing them.
> 
> What exactly is this?:
> "small non-moving shiny crappy looking fake gear in the secondary circular cutout at the 1pm position off the balance wheel."
> 
> I could not find anything in my research that resembled that
> 
> Thanks in advance
> adam


If you look at the pic I posted, the end of the arm that holds the balance wheel ends at a toothed gear at 5pm absolute, and 3pm to the balance wheel. I guessed at the 1pm earlier not thinking it an important detail. This toothed gear looks ok in pix, but in real life through a loupe looks like a shiny piece of cheap plastic or pot metal. It is also stationary while the balance wheel is moving, because it is purely decorative and presumably meant to cover something on that side. If a fake's arm comes from the right, that piece is absent because the arm covers up whatever they are trying to hide, but then the movement is very obviously fake. So when the plagiarists (what a pleasant sounding way to describe the fake watch industry!) moved the arm to the correct side they were left with a hole that needed to be filled with something, hence the small bridge and fake gear. But all of that is tiny, meaning none of this is obvious without magnification.

Edit: to be a little bit more clear, the arm that holds the balance wheel ends at 6pm absolute, but if you follow its curvature points at a toothed gear at 5pm absolute. This is the fake, crappy-looking, non-moving gear. You can see clearly that there is no other gear driving it, nor does it get driven from underneath and engage another gear on the top. In other words, for the gear to be real and functioning it should be physically touching another mechanical piece that moves, which it is not.


----------



## rg21044

I realize that it is probably cliche to ask opinions about authenticity. That being said, I have the Panerai bug bad. I have read a great deal and will most likely contribute more to this forum if and when I have something worthwhile to post.

In the meantime, can someone please offer an opinion about this piece? It looks pretty good...to me anyway. The seller has excellent reputation and feedback here. The lume looks a little off but it could just be angle and lighting. I know many of you can recognize a replica at 20 yards in the dark. Please lend me your expertise. I will be eternally grateful. Thanks.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rg21044 said:


> I realize that it is probably cliche to ask opinions about authenticity. That being said, I have the Panerai bug bad. I have read a great deal and will most likely contribute more to this forum if and when I have something worthwhile to post.
> 
> In the meantime, can someone please offer an opinion about this piece? It looks pretty good...to me anyway. The seller has excellent reputation and feedback here. The lume looks a little off but it could just be angle and lighting. I know many of you can recognize a replica at 20 yards in the dark. Please lend me your expertise. I will be eternally grateful. Thanks.


No link or photos.
Also movement photo is a must to determine authenticity on Panerai
A


----------



## rg21044

Sorry. Hast makes waste...

https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-$...od-condition-two-straps-box-card-3018418.html

The 002 is a closed case back. I can ask, but the seller may not agree to open the back.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rg21044 said:


> Sorry. Hast makes waste...
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-$...od-condition-two-straps-box-card-3018418.html


From dial and case looks good to me
a


----------



## rg21044

Thank you so much. I have asked for a movement pic. If I get one would you object if I contacted you via PM to get your opinion? Thanks.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rg21044 said:


> Thank you so much. I have asked for a movement pic. If I get one would you object if I contacted you via PM to get your opinion? Thanks.


Sure
I doubt he will open it, because that wil break the seals. I did not know the model and hence no exhibition back case.
Watch looks good though
a


----------



## rg21044

Hi again. I need some help with this one....

Panerai Pam 112 Luminor | eBay

no box and papers is a little scary.

movement looks ok to my minimally trained eye. Can anyone speak to the case shape, dial engravings, crown guard shape, etc? Thanks.


----------



## MattyMac

Movement finishing looks good, the gear train finish looks correct. Swan neck looks good and has correct incablock. I would say it's good.

But still I would not buy any watch without box and papers. I would just want the full kit, in case you want to sell it at some point. But that's my opinion.



rg21044 said:


> Hi again. I need some help with this one....
> 
> Panerai Pam 112 Luminor | eBay
> 
> no box and papers is a little scary.
> 
> movement looks ok to my minimally trained eye. Can anyone speak to the case shape, dial engravings, crown guard shape, etc? Thanks.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

As mentioned above, all the "key" points look good, its using the OPX movement.

I can see nothing glaringly wrong.
Adam


----------



## rg21044

Thank you both so much. I do think the full kit is important but I guess it depends on the discount.


----------



## Hadfield0310

Hi all,

Major novice here - my late father brought the below watch a while ago and put it in storage and I have just come across it. Because I am a total novice with this sort of thing I have no idea if it is real or fake. I have a feeling it is fake but want to double check... Pictures are below. 




















Sorry if it is so obvious, I just have no idea!

Thanks all,
Dan


----------



## korneevy

Hadfield0310 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Major novice here - my late father brought the below watch a while ago and put it in storage and I have just come across it. Because I am a total novice with this sort of thing I have no idea if it is real or fake. I have a feeling it is fake but want to double check... Pictures are below.
> View attachment 7732442
> View attachment 7732466
> View attachment 7732474
> 
> 
> Sorry if it is so obvious, I just have no idea!
> 
> Thanks all,
> Dan


Very much a fugazi


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Yes, complete fake.
Worth noting the nice blow up photo of the shock protection spring on this fake - look familiar?

A


----------



## Hadfield0310

Thank you!


----------



## murokello

Hadfield0310 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Major novice here - my late father brought the below watch a while ago and put it in storage and I have just come across it. Because I am a total novice with this sort of thing I have no idea if it is real or fake. I have a feeling it is fake but want to double check... Pictures are below.
> View attachment 7732442
> View attachment 7732466
> View attachment 7732474
> 
> 
> Sorry if it is so obvious, I just have no idea!
> 
> Thanks all,
> Dan


Another "late father" story. I don't think anyone believes these lies. Next time come back with your fake and use the "grandfather" story like most of the fakelovers.


----------



## RobbyCC

murokello said:


> Another "late father" story. I don't think anyone believes these lies. Next time come back with your fake and use the "grandfather" story like most of the fakelovers.


"It was (given, bought, found, willed) to/by my (family member - late stepfather-in-law's grandfather) by (someone - relative) and I just ran across it in (someplace where real and fake watches happily co-exist and breed - example an old box) and I was wondering whether it's fake?"
Translation: I'm full of it, and I wanted to see if my prized fake actually fools people who know.

OP: Just wear it and enjoy it!


----------



## hbombkid

Wanted some help here.

I wanted the JV strap for my 512, but they don't make it. I can have one custom from Panerai but they charge 100 over retail and then 6 weeks to make.

I found something very similar and wanted to know if anything is off. It looks legit to me but want to confirm. Any help appreciated.


----------



## bobbee

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yes, complete fake.
> Worth noting the nice blow up photo of the shock protection spring on this fake - look familiar?
> 
> A


Yes, it's the same as on a real one.


----------



## pr0zack

What does everyone think about this one? It's up for sale on a local site and it looks OK but it's a fairly low price for what it is and I'm still new to identifying fakes especially Panerai, any feedback is appreciated. (These are all the photos provided, none of the movement) Thanks


----------



## MrSaintLaurent

Hi guys, can I get an authenticity check on this radiomir, it says it's a 2009 and the 45mm version thanks


----------



## pr0zack

pr0zack said:


> View attachment 7807658
> 
> View attachment 7807666
> 
> View attachment 7807674
> 
> View attachment 7807706
> 
> 
> What does everyone think about this one? It's up for sale on a local site and it looks OK but it's a fairly low price for what it is and I'm still new to identifying fakes especially Panerai, any feedback is appreciated. (These are all the photos provided, none of the movement) Thanks


Bump...any thoughts??


----------



## T1meout

pr0zack said:


> Bump...any thoughts??


No one can advise you per the authenticity unless you can provide us with sharper and larger pictures of the movement.


----------



## pr0zack

T1meout said:


> No one can advise you per the authenticity unless you can provide us with sharper and larger pictures of the movement.


Unfortunatley those are the only ones i have available, thanks tho.


----------



## pr0zack

T1meout said:


> No one can advise you per the authenticity unless you can provide us with sharper and larger pictures of the movement.


I am referring to the watch on the previous page (115) with the better pictures tho not the watch on this page, that's someone else's post.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

pr0zack said:


> I am referring to the watch on the previous page (115) with the better pictures tho not the watch on this page, that's someone else's post.


Then give a link to your watch so NO misunderstanding
Thanks


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

MrSaintLaurent said:


> Hi guys, can I get an authenticity check on this radiomir, it says it's a 2009 and the 45mm version thanks


Pictures are truly too poor to give an authoritve reply, but from what I can make out on movement my first thoughts are FAKE
A


----------



## T1meout

pr0zack said:


> I am referring to the watch on the previous page (115) with the better pictures tho not the watch on this page, that's someone else's post.


What's the reference number?


----------



## AlBundy

I am super-convinced this is a fake on Ebay: Mens Panerai PAM 111 Luminor Marina Acciaio 7612456230233 | eBay

What do you guys think?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

AlBundy said:


> I am super-convinced this is a fake on Ebay: Mens Panerai PAM 111 Luminor Marina Acciaio 7612456230233 | eBay
> 
> What do you guys think?


Why do you "think" its fake?

Reported to ebay.
adam


----------



## AlBundy

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Why do you "think" its fake


The incabloc-assembly should be Y-shaped if it was real.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Its reported.
Thanks Adam


----------



## pr0zack

T1meout said:


> What's the reference number?[/QUOTE
> PAM00244


----------



## T1meout

Very hard to make out whether it's a fake. Buy the seller or have it checked.


----------



## pr0zack

T1meout said:


> Very hard to make out whether it's a fake. Buy the seller or have it checked.


Thanks for the feedback and your time


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

AlBundy said:


> I am super-convinced this is a fake on Ebay: Mens Panerai PAM 111 Luminor Marina Acciaio 7612456230233 | eBay
> 
> What do you guys think?


Fake and removed by eBay


----------



## beardedmonk

Hi All,

I have been looking to buy a Panerai Luminor for a while and am trying to step up my search. I have the post about spotting fakes and certain model ranges having lots of replicas.

I was wondering if anyone could look at a couple of Ebay auctions that I am looking at?

Thanks in advance,

Paul


----------



## rg21044

Hi guys. My hunt for a Panerai...on the relative cheap....continues. I saw this one and it intrigued me. I like the white dial. My issue is that the pic of the caseback shows the swan neck regulator has passed over the dagger. It looks to have been soldiered or something. My questions are...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Lum...360336?hash=item5d63fb1ed0:g:Ol4AAOSwubRXEU6N

what at are the chances this is genuine?

can this be fixed?

should I keep looking?

thanks


----------



## rg21044

I think I'm gonna steer clear of the movement issue on the 113 even if it is genuine....

However, I did stumble upon this....

Panerai Luminor Marina 44mm | eBay

some of the things I know to look for seem legit, but a few others are suspect. Plus the guy has very little feedback. Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## rg21044

I think I'm gonna steer clear of the movement issue on the 113 even if it is genuine....

However, I did stumble upon this....

Panerai Luminor Marina 44mm | eBay

some of the things I know to look for seem legit, but a few others are suspect. Plus the guy has very little feedback. Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## rg21044

Ok. That one sold. How about this one...

Panerai Radiomir 45mm "Historic" PAM210 Exhibition Back All Boxes Perfect 9 9 | eBay

i like the 210. Y-incabloc and mm screw length look good. Cotes de Geneva looks a little rough but it could be the lighting. Can any experts help? Thanks


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rg21044 said:


> Ok. That one sold. How about this one...
> 
> Panerai Radiomir 45mm "Historic" PAM210 Exhibition Back All Boxes Perfect 9 9 | eBay
> 
> i like the 210. Y-incabloc and mm screw length look good. Cotes de Geneva looks a little rough but it could be the lighting. Can any experts help? Thanks


Sold
But looks genuine
A


----------



## MrSaintLaurent

The last one you guys posted I made an offer and the seller accepted it. Would you guys say $3100 is too much or is it fair? Thanks


----------



## watchVT

MrSaintLaurent said:


> The last one you guys posted I made an offer and the seller accepted it. Would you guys say $3100 is too much or is it fair? Thanks


Why would you offer and then ask if it is fair?? That' ridiculous and unfair to the seller.


----------



## MrSaintLaurent

Ok cyber police, I already paid for the watch so if anybody could answer my question I'd greatly appreciate it. No need for stupid remarks.


----------



## rg21044

MrSaintLaurent said:


> Ok cyber police, I already paid for the watch so if anybody could answer my question I'd greatly appreciate it. No need for stupid
> If if you are talking about the 212 that I posted a link to from eBay, I would say $3100 is a very good price.
> 
> in other news, can some of the fake busting/genuine confirming experts give me an opinion of this one...
> 
> Panerai Watch | eBay
> 
> i don't know if I buy the story or like that it doesn't have box and papers but the dial and movement look legitimate to me. However, I know just enough to be a danger to myself so any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rg21044 said:


> in other news, can some of the fake busting/genuine confirming experts give me an opinion of this one...
> 
> Panerai Watch | eBay
> 
> i don't know if I buy the story or like that it doesn't have box and papers but the dial and movement look legitimate to me. However, I know just enough to be a danger to myself so any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


Although movement looks good, I have my suspicions due to other points.
I would NOT recommend buying it!


----------



## rg21044

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Although movement looks good, I have my suspicions due to other points.
> I would NOT recommend buying it!


Thats good enough for me. Moving on to the next one. Thank you!


----------



## rg21044

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Although movement looks good, I have my suspicions due to other points.
> I would NOT recommend buying it!


Thats good enough for me. Moving on to the next one. Thank you!


----------



## MrSaintLaurent

Hello guys, so I just received the watch from the eBay listing I posted and I was just wondering if you guys can tell me with 100% certainty that the watch is a gen. 

One thing bothering me is the OFFICINE PANERAI logo on the back movement because the I is engraved but you cannot really see it as opposed to other pictures I have seen of the radiomir movement 

I paid with a credit card and through PayPal so I should be good to go if this is not a genuine Panerai. All your help is appreciated


----------



## MrSaintLaurent

I should also say that the seller has 100% feedback since 2002 and the watch came with the all boxes except the papers. I will also take it to an AD during the week to have it checked out


----------



## korneevy

MrSaintLaurent said:


> I should also say that the seller has 100% feedback since 2002 and the watch came with the all boxes except the papers. I will also take it to an AD during the week to have it checked out


Well that settles it then - wait till someone (provided they know their stuff) does hands-on inspection and gives you a written conclusion - such as one you can use for insurance valuation. All that nonsense of Internet fake busters... It only works when it is clearly a cheap imitation... Anything of higher grader replication can be easily passed on, with careful photos and use of light/shadows/photoshop.


----------



## DieSkim

Am I correct in saying this is a 2005 model / H series?


----------



## Matt C

MrSaintLaurent said:


> Hello guys, so I just received the watch from the eBay listing I posted and I was just wondering if you guys can tell me with 100% certainty that the watch is a gen.
> 
> One thing bothering me is the OFFICINE PANERAI logo on the back movement because the I is engraved but you cannot really see it as opposed to other pictures I have seen of the radiomir movement
> 
> I paid with a credit card and through PayPal so I should be good to go if this is not a genuine Panerai. All your help is appreciated


Legit!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Matt C said:


> Legit!


I would concur
A


----------



## KL670

Hi all, 













New Panerai owner of a 372. I'm quite confident that my watch is authentic but since I got t used from eBay and I stumbled upon this cool thread, I just wanted to make sure. Please let me know if you need anything else. Thanks


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Looks very genuine to me.
Enjoy
a


----------



## KL670

Bravo, thanks a lot for the quick reply, Horologist007! Again, I"m new to Panerai and so far am loving everyone second it's on my wrist. 
Btw, a little back story about the watch: it was actually on eBay for a couple of days before I made the purchase. It was a low asking price at $5000 compared to mostly around $7000 for other used pieces. That made me a little suspicious because I thought it would have been snatched in no time!!! Anyway, sounds like I scored well this time =)


----------



## matwell

Hi Everyone, Don't laugh too hard, but I'm VERY new to Panerai, and really, just watches in general, and I need your help! So, could you tell me, is this real? I'm already thinking it's a fake, but want the extra confirmation. Thanks so much!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Confirmed


----------



## MattyMac

o|...that's all I got.:roll:



matwell said:


> Hi Everyone, Don't laugh too hard, but I'm VERY new to Panerai, and really, just watches in general, and I need your help! So, could you tell me, is this real? I'm already thinking it's a fake, but want the extra confirmation. Thanks so much!
> 
> View attachment 8107762
> View attachment 8107770


----------



## MattyMac

Was it a full kit with box and papers? Without box and matching papers $5000 would be about right for a 372. If you got it with box and papers it's a very good price if it's in good shape.



KL670 said:


> Bravo, thanks a lot for the quick reply, Horologist007! Again, I"m new to Panerai and so far am loving everyone second it's on my wrist.
> Btw, a little back story about the watch: it was actually on eBay for a couple of days before I made the purchase. It was a low asking price at $5000 compared to mostly around $7000 for other used pieces. That made me a little suspicious because I thought it would have been snatched in no time!!! Anyway, sounds like I scored well this time =)


----------



## stamatov78

Hello all,help please with this one.Those are all pics i have.What you are thinking about this watch fake or real.Thank you


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Everything points to FAKE!
Sorry
Adam


----------



## T1meout

Total fugazzi.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

https://www.watchuseek.com/f508/what%92s-name-war-words-3362242.html#post31093370

Adam


----------



## Wlover

Hi pam moderator

Is this allowed? See rolex forum...

Rolex & Tudor Fake Busters



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> https://www.watchuseek.com/f508/what%92s-name-war-words-3362242.html#post31093370
> 
> Adam


----------



## horrij1

A co-worker of mine has a couple Chinese clone Panerai and Rolex watches. It was actually his clone that caught my eye, and got me interested in the brand. I recently picked up a PAM114 from another WUS member, and we did a side by side comparison, here are some photos. I won't have to tell you all which watch is which.


----------



## Matt C

stamatov78 said:


> Hello all,help please with this one.Those are all pics i have.What you are thinking about this watch fake or real.Thank you


100% bunk.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

horrij1 said:


> A co-worker of mine has a couple Chinese clone Panerai and Rolex watches. It was actually his clone that caught my eye, and got me interested in the brand. I recently picked up a PAM114 from another WUS member, and we did a side by side comparison, here are some photos. I won't have to tell you all which watch is which.


No you do not
The fake is horrible


----------



## mastamuffin

Is this strap real? Came as an extra with a Panerai I just bought, and want to make sure its real before I sell it (it is too large for me). Also, would this be considered a XL? The stock strap the watch came on fits me fine, but this one is too long.
























Thanks!


----------



## brioni007

strap doesn't look legit to me


----------



## bobbee

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> No you do not
> The fake is horrible


Which is which please?


----------



## horrij1

bobbee said:


> Which is which please?


The watch with the black strap is the fake.


----------



## DieSkim

Black strap-watch is a bad fake


----------



## Brother Rat

Thoughts? 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272319569441?redirect=mobile


----------



## waikeekee

@Brother Rat

I do not like contradiction. How do I put it. The watch looks genuine to me however, the title says PAM00000 and the watch is PAM00005. So which is which?

Another thing, normally I would not buy a watch that is incomplete. Without box and papers, you buy at your own peril unless you are absolutely sure it is a keeper. Otherwise, I wouldn't touch it even with a ten foot pole or the watch is extremely cheap like selling at 30-40% of the market price.

RGDS
WKK
The enemy of my enemy is my friend


----------



## bobbee

@ horrij1 and DieSkim,

I knew that the black strap one was fake, but the person I asked didn't answer so I assumed he did not?


----------



## DieSkim

bobbee said:


> @ horrij1 and DieSkim,
> 
> I knew that the black strap one was fake, but the person I asked didn't answer so I assumed he did not?


Horologist knows his stuff, that pic wouldnt fool him or anyone else... unless both are fake


----------



## Wlover

No he doesn't. Track back in the Rolex, Panerai, Hublot, Omega, Tag, B&R fake buster forums you will know what I mean. He is wrong so many times it's not even funny.



DieSkim said:


> Horologist knows his stuff, that pic wouldnt fool him or anyone else... unless both are fake


----------



## T1meout

I figured it was a rhetorical question unworthy of a response.


----------



## Wlover

Not a question. More like a statement.


----------



## dcannon1

Real of fake? Considering online purchase. J serial number 112.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

dcannon1 said:


> Real of fake? Considering online purchase. J serial number 112.
> 
> View attachment 9159578
> 
> View attachment 9159586


Sent PM
A


----------



## tommyk3

Good afternoon, 

I had acquired this Pam 104 J series a while back and wanted to get a feel from the community. Everything from my experience pointed that it is authentic, All the books/papers are accurate and numbers match, hang tag included & matches, warranty card matches (no receipt of original purchase but was purchased in Hong Kong at a well know dealer). Bezel guard fits snuggly with no play, no uneven movement from crown guard. Tools and strap were consistent with others lived had. I had a local watchmaker open it up and said he approved, how ever its a solid caseback with a Val 7750 movement so this is where my experience is less than perfect. 
Pressure test did fail at first but replaced the gasket and passed. Its running a little slow, roughly about 10 seconds a day.
I had a fellow co-worker who is a very active member buyer and trader on Paneristi.com look at it and approved. 

Maybe I'm just a paranoid freak since its the first second hand luxury watch I've purchased. 

Thank you in advance 

Cheers


----------



## korneevy

Do a better photo of the movement with ETA stamping visible


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

As above for certain. We need to see balance wheel area and plate under neath it

AND a decent dial and case back photo


----------



## tommyk3

Here are some cleaner images, my iPhone 6 is really not taking photos well after this new ISO10 update, I don't have the caseback removal tool to open it up unfortunately. The dealers in my area are not very knowledgeable about the product. 

It needs to go in for a complete service so i know the condition is not perfect. 

I appreciate the feedback thus far


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

PM sent


----------



## Shiel85

Hello fellow watch enthusiasts. I recently purchased my first Pam from eBay from a credible seller. It came with box, certificate, and warranty card. I was hoping I can get some veteran eyes on it to confirm its authenticity. I'm going out on a limb here to say it's real, bit if it's fake please point out the tell tale signs. Your insights are appreciated.
View attachment 9380346
View attachment 9380370
View attachment 9380378
View attachment 9380386
View attachment 9380394


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Invalid attachments


----------



## DieSkim

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> dcannon1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Real of fake? Considering online purchase. J serial number 112.
> 
> Sent PM
> A
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you sending PMs now, it takes the fun out of following and discussion this thread!
Click to expand...


----------



## Shiel85

Here are the pics of Pam


----------



## T1meout

Nice Pam111. It looks perfectly legit. Wear it in great health.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Shiel85 said:


> Here are the pics of Pam
> View attachment 9380946
> View attachment 9381034
> View attachment 9381042


PM sent


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



Shiel85 said:


> Here are the pics of Pam
> View attachment 9380946
> View attachment 9381034
> View attachment 9381042


Fugazi, me thinks. Movement is Chinese, incablock is faked-up, swan neck is incorrect shape, Sean neck screw is non-fictional. Prob enough to run away from this as fast as you could...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

T1meout said:


> Nice Pam111. It looks perfectly legit. Wear it in great health.


?


----------



## bobbee

Fake.
The two screws holding the regulator are poorly positioned, the end of the regulator next to those screws is the wrong shape, should be convex and more "pointed", the edges of this area should be sharper, not rounded.


----------



## Shiel85

Thank you all for your input. It is much appreciated. Turns out it is a fugazi after all. I Wish I would have consulted here before purchase. I now know for next time. Cheers.


----------



## DieSkim

Shiel85 said:


> Here are the pics of Pam


It is an authentic fake!


----------



## Shiel85

DieSkim said:


> It is an authentic fake!


On a scale of 1-10 how fake is it; 10 being mega fake, 1 being somewhat suspect? Only curious as I have already packaged it to go back to seller. Thx guru's!


----------



## korneevy

Shiel85 said:


> On a scale of 1-10 how fake is it; 10 being mega fake, 1 being somewhat suspect? Only curious as I have already packaged it to go back to seller. Thx guru's!


On scale of 1-10, how much (and WHY?) do you care about how fake it a fake? It's 100%, 10 out of 10 fake, that should be enough to send it packing (if you really did do paid any decent, genuine money for it, that is...)


----------



## T1meout

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ?


I'm an idiot.


----------



## Shiel85

korneevy said:


> On scale of 1-10, how much (and WHY?) do you care about how fake it a fake? It's 100%, 10 out of 10 fake, that should be enough to send it packing (if you really did do paid any decent, genuine money for it, that is...)


Like I said I am curious, thats all. I'd like to think that it was an honest mistake anyone could have made vs. being a sucker. Any how, it's on it's way back to the seller who did charge me a more than a " decent" and "genuine" amount for it. I'd like to thank you, bobee, and Adam for chiming in. Your knowledge saved me from making a costly mistake.


----------



## bobbee

Shiel85 said:


> Like I said I am curious, thats all. I'd like to think that it was an honest mistake anyone could have made vs. being a sucker. Any how, it's on it's way back to the seller who did charge me a more than a " decent" and "genuine" amount for it. I'd like to thank you, bobee, and Adam for chiming in. Your knowledge saved me from making a costly mistake.


You're welcome, glad to help. I thought it best to put forward my reasons for thinking this was a fake, so as to help others learn how to spot a fake one at no charge.


----------



## Kidasters

Could someone please weigh in on one that is on ebay right now? It's item #282176951985. Real or fake, and if it's a fake, how can you tell? It looks like the genuine article to me..


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Kidasters said:


> Could someone please weigh in on one that is on ebay right now? It's item #282176951985. Real or fake, and if it's a fake, how can you tell? It looks like the genuine article to me..


Sent you a PM


----------



## Kidasters

No PM's in the inbox.

However - a google search of the model number (OP 6567) and serial number (BB1082301) shows that this is a fake watch.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

double post


----------



## Kidasters

OK - got the pm. Thanks.

Like the saying goes "If it's too good to be true...."


----------



## cb1111

An open message to Horo007

I think it is time that everyone put this childishness behind us. Most of us here are adults and should behave that way. None of us are infallible and, quite frankly, there is far more to determining if a watch is real than looking at pictures Each one of us has their area of expertise and all of us are wrong at times - I, for one, would much rather hear "I think it is fake (or real) because..." and that be wrong, than to not hear someone's opinion. I can say that I won't laugh an point my finger at someone who is wrong assuming that they gave reasons for their opinion. 

C'mon guys, we can do this.


----------



## njay24

Hi new to the site, bought this and will get it certified but I thought I will run it past the experts on here


----------



## korneevy

njay24 said:


> Hi new to the site, bought this and will get it certified but I thought I will run it past the experts on here


 Open the caseback and provide close up photos of the movements. Based on these pictures, no one can tell you anything concrete. If you didn't get box, papers and receipts, I'd assume you have a fake until proven otherwise


----------



## Rupert80

Hi All, I just want confirmation on this fake. I am just getting in to my watches.
No serial number, swan clip doesn't look right. The strap Feels really nice quality tho and the screw heads are flat and not rounded like a fake. What else should I look for? Thanks in advance.


----------



## _diplomat_

Rupert80 said:


> Hi All, I just want confirmation on this fake. I am just getting in to my watches.
> No serial number, swan clip doesn't look right. The strap Feels really nice quality tho and the screw heads are flat and not rounded like a fake. What else should I look for? Thanks in advance.


Omg, you're kidding, right?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

_diplomat_ said:


> Omg, you're kidding, right?


LOL
Consider it "confirmed"
a


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

_diplomat_ said:


> Omg, you're kidding, right?


LOL
Consider it "confirmed"

PS: What swan neck clip????
a


----------



## _diplomat_

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> LOL
> Consider it "confirmed"
> 
> PS: What swan neck clip????
> a


Yes. And the serial # is not missing.
The case back is missing...


----------



## T1meout

Rupert80 said:


> Hi All, I just want confirmation on this fake. I am just getting in to my watches.
> No serial number, swan clip doesn't look right. The strap Feels really nice quality tho and the screw heads are flat and not rounded like a fake. What else should I look for? Thanks in advance.


Speechless.....the watch is worth less than the cumulative value of the raw materials used to create it.
On the bright side, at least it's genuine Chinese craftsmanship.


----------



## cb1111

Which watch is that even supposed to be?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Removed
Posted in error


----------



## Rupert80

You lot need to learn to read. I asked for some advice as I want to get into watches. I was pretty sure it was a fake but want to know what to look for! Next time I want a slagging off I will be sure to come back.


----------



## Rupert80

You lot need to learn to read. I asked for some advice as I want to get into watches. I was pretty sure it was a fake but want to know what to look for! Next time I want a slagging off I will be sure to come back.


----------



## Synequano

The watch posted earlier was surprisingly......fake....


----------



## cb1111

Rupert80 said:


> You lot need to learn to read. I asked for some advice as I want to get into watches. I was pretty sure it was a fake but want to know what to look for! Next time I want a slagging off I will be sure to come back.


You want advice? Here it is.

When looking at a watch, see if that model actually exists. Then compare your watch to the photos of the watch. If it looks close then post it.

Nobody made fun of you for posting it. They were making fun of the "watch."


----------



## T1meout

Here is some more advise. If you payed $5 USD for it, you needn't bother asking.


----------



## DieSkim

"The strap Feels really nice quality tho and the screw heads are flat and not rounded like a fake." I still struggle to see the reason for your post.


----------



## Matt C

Rupert80 said:


> Hi All, I just want confirmation on this fake. I am just getting in to my watches.
> No serial number, swan clip doesn't look right. The strap Feels really nice quality tho and the screw heads are flat and not rounded like a fake. What else should I look for? Thanks in advance.


This is the worst Panerai fake I ever have seen.. Have you ever seen another one like this ever?? It's gross in every sense of the word.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## T1meout

Matt C said:


> This is the worst Panerai fake I ever have seen.. Have you ever seen another one like this ever?? It's gross in every sense of the word.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have seen a fake similar to this one. In fact it can be seen on the very first page of this thread.


----------



## Matt C

T1meout said:


> I have seen a fake similar to this one. In fact it can be seen on the very first page of this thread.


Sorry, I meant compared to any original model. Panerai has never created a watch like this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Heinz

I had that one, started learning how to take movements apart on it (never did get far putting it back together). That was after I took it in the water, where it surprisingly rapidly started taking water in.


----------



## DieSkim

I'm waiting for the masses to start asking whether their newly bought Panerai's with springbars, pop lids and 30m water resistance are in fact considered REAL. Amusement to some, heart ache to others.


----------



## Heinz

Hear ya. Real yes, but not gonna be as desirable as the old ones, that's for sure.


----------



## Synequano

It'll be hilarious for members who was out from a watch forum for several years and see the new pams having all those "goodies"


----------



## njay24

njay24 said:


> Hi new to the site, bought this and will get it certified but I thought I will run it past the experts on here


Got the watched checked out by panerai... It's fake and appearantly one of the best ones they have seen

Manage to get refunded 95% of the money from the seller which was ok with me

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

njay24 said:


> Got the watched checked out by panerai... It's fake and appearantly one of the best ones they have seen
> 
> Manage to get refunded 95% of the money from the seller which was ok with me
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk


Thanks your update.
Glad you sorted it out
adam


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



njay24 said:


> Got the watched checked out by panerai... It's fake and appearantly one of the best ones they have seen
> 
> Manage to get refunded 95% of the money from the seller which was ok with me
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk


Really? 95%??? Why not 105%?

He sold you a turd - I'd venture to say knowingly - and left you wasting your time trying to prove it's real, and you get 95 cents on the dollar for the privilege?

Sounds like you've got screwed twice, I wouldn't tolerate this. Go get ALL of your money back and name and shame the dealer for trying to screw you shamelessly.


----------



## WatchScene

From many posts and articles I've read, the sure way to verify authenticity of Panerai watch is to examine the movement of the watch. I spoke to a rep at Panerai boutique, and they suggested the watch be sent for service. Panerai will examine the movement of the watch, and if authentic, provide a quote for servicing. However, no authentication papers would be provided by Panerai beyond the bill if service is performed. Can anyone provide alternative suggestions?

Would a picture of the caseback be sufficient to verify it on this forum?

Looking to acquire my first Panerai, PAM 292. Panerai Radiomir Black Seal Ceramic Pam 292 | eBay

Thank you in advance!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Powdernation said:


> Would a picture of the caseback be sufficient to verify it on this forum?
> 
> Thank you in advance!


Only if it has an exhibition case back. Its nie impossible to be 100% certain from photos, but with plenty of decent photos of dial, crown guard, and movement, one can get to pretty sure or not.

The link you gave is already sold, the location would concern me, as do a couple of other details that seriously concern me.


----------



## korneevy

Powdernation said:


> From many posts and articles I've read, the sure way to verify authenticity of Panerai watch is to examine the movement of the watch. I spoke to a rep at Panerai boutique, and they suggested the watch be sent for service. Panerai will examine the movement of the watch, and if authentic, provide a quote for servicing. However, no authentication papers would be provided by Panerai beyond the bill if service is performed. Can anyone provide alternative suggestions?
> 
> Would a picture of the caseback be sufficient to verify it on this forum?
> 
> Looking to acquire my first Panerai, PAM 292. Panerai Radiomir Black Seal Ceramic Pam 292 | eBay
> 
> Thank you in advance!


Buy from a trusted seller with good return policy, and only full set. Panerai is one of the most faked brands out there and considering how simple most of their ETA watches are, the fakes are so good that you won't be able to tell unless you know very well what you are looking at, and have the watch in your hand.


----------



## Wmp90

Just bought this online, I bought it through PayPal and have 14 days to inspect it... Thoughts?


----------



## Matt C

Wmp90 said:


> Just bought this online, I bought it through PayPal and have 14 days to inspect it... Thoughts?


It's real, though why would you buy a watch before knowing it's 100% authentic? Not to sound like an arse but you should always get authentication prior to purchSe.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wmp90

Matt C said:


> Wmp90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just bought this online, I bought it through PayPal and have 14 days to inspect it... Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> It's real, though why would you buy a watch before knowing it's 100% authentic? Not to sound like an arse but you should always get authentication prior to purchSe.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It was on Fleabay and I thought it was a pretty good deal. I have 14 days to return it and paid through PayPal so I didn't see any risk if it did turn out to be fake. If it weren't for that, I would have never bought it.


----------



## rg21044

Can any of you kind people take a look at this and give me your thoughts? I am leaning toward genuine for several reasons...not the least of which is that it is for sale on this very site....

https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-panerai-luminor-base-112k-44mm-3673498.html

i would appreciate any and all input. I have asked the seller to confirm some questions and to provide some additional pics of the movement. I will update this post if and when they are provided. Thanks


----------



## ridley

Wmp90 said:


> It was on Fleabay and I thought it was a pretty good deal. I have 14 days to return it and paid through PayPal so I didn't see any risk if it did turn out to be fake. If it weren't for that, I would have never bought it.


I have concerns, a couple of things don't look 100% looking at those photos.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Wmp90 said:


> It was on Fleabay and I thought it was a pretty good deal. I have 14 days to return it and paid through PayPal so I didn't see any risk if it did turn out to be fake. If it weren't for that, I would have never bought it.


I look forward to the reply.
Regards
adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rg21044 said:


> Can any of you kind people take a look at this and give me your thoughts? I am leaning toward genuine for several reasons...not the least of which is that it is for sale on this very site....
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-panerai-luminor-base-112k-44mm-3673498.html
> 
> i would appreciate any and all input. I have asked the seller to confirm some questions and to provide some additional pics of the movement. I will update this post if and when they are provided. Thanks


I am not sure if WUS has "trusted" sellers, that said this seller has been a member a while with 120 community posts - good sign.

The dial side of watch looks fine, but so do 80% of counterfeit Panerais, and the movement shot is useless for verifying genuine or fake.
Get a few decent straight on photo of movement.
Until then act with caution.
A


----------



## rg21044

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I am not sure if WUS has "trusted" sellers, that said this seller has been a member a while with 120 community posts - good sign.
> 
> The dial side of watch looks fine, but so do 80% of counterfeit Panerais, and the movement shot is useless for verifying genuine or fake.
> Get a few decent straight on photo of movement.
> Until then act with caution.
> A


Thank you!


----------



## Wmp90

Returning the watch, seller had no problem with the request and is paying for all the shipping charges. Thanks guys, I appreciate all the help, it saved me a pretty penny.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Excellent
Glad to have helped
Adam


----------



## rg21044

Hi again guys. On the off chance that the 112 above doesn't work out, I went browsing on eBay. Below are links to the ads of several Panerais I am interested in. Could anyone use their expertise to help me determine if they are genuine? Thanks in advance.

OFFICINE PANERAI 44mm LUMINOR OP 6568 Rare Limited Edition 274/1700 | eBay

Panerai PAM 114 Luminor Base 44mm White Arabic Stainless Steel Leather BOX PAPER 7612456230264 | eBay

Panerai PAM 112 Luminor Base 44mm Black Luminous Stainless Steel Leather PAPERS | eBay

PANERAI PAM 24 STEEL 44 mm LUMINOR SUBMERSIBLE - BOX/PAPERS ON OEM RUBBER STRAP! | eBay

Panerai Luminor Marina Submersible PAM 24 SS 44-mm


----------



## T1meout

rg21044 said:


> Hi again guys. On the off chance that the 112 above doesn't work out, I went browsing on eBay. Below are links to the ads of several Panerais I am interested in. Could anyone use their expertise to help me determine if they are genuine? Thanks in advance.
> 
> OFFICINE PANERAI 44mm LUMINOR OP 6568 Rare Limited Edition 274/1700 | eBay
> 
> Panerai PAM 114 Luminor Base 44mm White Arabic Stainless Steel Leather BOX PAPER 7612456230264 | eBay
> 
> Panerai PAM 112 Luminor Base 44mm Black Luminous Stainless Steel Leather PAPERS | eBay
> 
> PANERAI PAM 24 STEEL 44 mm LUMINOR SUBMERSIBLE - BOX/PAPERS ON OEM RUBBER STRAP! | eBay
> 
> Panerai Luminor Marina Submersible PAM 24 SS 44-mm


How about not being so lazy and posting some pictures instead of just linking ebay listings at random. Make an effort if you want people to help you out. If you couldn't be bothered, why should we.


----------



## korneevy

rg21044 said:


> Hi again guys. On the off chance that the 112 above doesn't work out, I went browsing on eBay. Below are links to the ads of several Panerais I am interested in. Could anyone use their expertise to help me determine if they are genuine? Thanks in advance.
> 
> OFFICINE PANERAI 44mm LUMINOR OP 6568 Rare Limited Edition 274/1700 | eBay
> 
> Panerai PAM 114 Luminor Base 44mm White Arabic Stainless Steel Leather BOX PAPER 7612456230264 | eBay
> 
> Panerai PAM 112 Luminor Base 44mm Black Luminous Stainless Steel Leather PAPERS | eBay
> 
> PANERAI PAM 24 STEEL 44 mm LUMINOR SUBMERSIBLE - BOX/PAPERS ON OEM RUBBER STRAP! | eBay
> 
> Panerai Luminor Marina Submersible PAM 24 SS 44-mm


Thats beyond lazy. Do you expect people to click on all these links and do the research for you? Seriously.

My take is that you don't really know what you want or know what to look for to buy used safely. Just work with a trusted used watch dealer, there are literally hundreds of them, and that basic Panerai you seem to be interested in can be obtained easily as there is nothing special or limited about them and Panerai has made 000s of them. The dealer will source what you want, give you the warranty and a piece of mind - all at a very acceptable mark up of ~10-15%.

Alternatively, study up, learn, research and do your homework - nobody will do it for you for free.


----------



## Tommy2010

Hi. I have purchased a panarai Pam 111H series. I purchased this from a jeweler who provided the box and the card. However there was no reference on the box to the watch. My main concern is a blueish hue That is produced at certain angles. I have read that this should be clear. However the degree of blue is nowhere near as significant as it is on some of the watches I have seen online in reviews that are confirmed as fakes. I would really appreciate any help in authenticating this watch


----------



## rg21044

To the 2 dickweeds who replied to my question, first...it took more effort to reply so if you are so put upon you should have saved that energy as well. Also, that's the purpose of this thread. This very practice has been repeated dozens of times throughout its 129 pages. Look, I get it. You feel henpecked or cuckolded by a domineering spouse or get drunk and think it's a good idea to troll threads on a watch forum after a half bottle of Boones Farm. My advice is don't.


----------



## T1meout

rg21044 said:


> To the 2 dickweeds who replied to my question, first...it took more effort to reply so if you are so put upon you should have saved that energy as well. Also, that's the purpose of this thread. This very practice has been repeated dozens of times throughout its 129 pages. Look, I get it. You feel henpecked or cuckolded by a domineering spouse or get drunk and think it's a good idea to troll threads on a watch forum after a half bottle of Boones Farm. My advice is don't.


You have been a member here since 2013. Your current post count is at 80 posts. Yet your second post dates from January 2015. Half of your posts have been authenticity requests here on the Panerai forum. Another 1/4 is from a strap you attempted to sell. It baffles me that a person would only post authenticity request after authenticity request. Yet you have failed to post any purchases. I think you are lazy, and find your behavior highly suspicious, as in potential scammer working towards a goal waiting for his coup de gras on some poor sucker once he has acquired for sale privileges. Why don't you start giving a little, instead of just taking. With you it's all me, me, me. Very mature, flipping me the bird via pm.


----------



## bobbee

+1 Timeout, well said!


----------



## CastorTroy3

I have a question and unfortunately I have limited information. My buddy can over to my house the other day and his wife has bought him a Panerai. Now I loved the watch and thought it looked beautiful and was curious how big it was so I started to looking up the reference number to see what the power reserve is (because he complained it didn't make it 3 days, which I was suprised) and because I really liked the simplicity of the model. After a little searching I realized that his display back say PAM 485 and when I searched for the 485 I learned that it was a limited production run in Brazil which is a an auto, a 10 day, and doesn't have a display back as it has a picture of SAN Pablo. Now I am questioning whether his wife unknowingly bought a fake watch. 

I havent asked him him to send me a picture of the movement to confirm. The only numbers on the back I rember are that it was dated as P458/500 and it said PAM 485 on the display back.

so my question is...is there a PAM 485 with a display back and does it make sense that it's 458/500 when the PAM 485 was only 50 units


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

CastorTroy3 said:


> I have a question and unfortunately I have limited information. My buddy can over to my house the other day and his wife has bought him a Panerai. Now I loved the watch and thought it looked beautiful and was curious how big it was so I started to looking up the reference number to see what the power reserve is (because he complained it didn't make it 3 days, which I was suprised) and because I really liked the simplicity of the model. After a little searching I realized that his display back say PAM 485 and when I searched for the 485 I learned that it was a limited production run in Brazil which is a an auto, a 10 day, and doesn't have a display back as it has a picture of SAN Pablo. Now I am questioning whether his wife unknowingly bought a fake watch.
> 
> I havent asked him him to send me a picture of the movement to confirm. The only numbers on the back I rember are that it was dated as P458/500 and it said PAM 485 on the display back.


For some reason I have never fathomed out, Panerai do NOT give their PAM numbers on the back of their watch cases it ONLY gives the OP number and serial number.
You have to google to convert from OP number to PAM (well that is the only way I found)

You are looking at the serial number of 458 out of 500

A


----------



## T1meout

As A pointed out the long number on the back is the serial number. The other number tells us that the watch is the 458th out of 500 units produced in that particular year. The P designates the year in which it was built. 2013 in this case. You will have to run a Google search of the complete serial number in order to find out which model Pam it is.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

T1meout said:


> As A pointed out the number on the back is serial number. The other is number 458 out of 500 units. The P designates the year in which it was built. 2013 in this case. You will have to run a Google search of the complete serial number in order to find out which model Pam it is.


Thanks your confirmation
Regards
adam


----------



## sonofeve

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Hi all. I finally bought a pam 510 ( sandwich dial too!)

Thought it's finally my turn to post in this thread haha. Always wanted to post here.
Anyone can check if my watch is authentic? 










Thanks in advance guys.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Looks good to me, first for me to se the P5000 movement.
Enjoy
adam


----------



## sonofeve

Thanks adam. Always see your nice posts. I been lurking in forum for a while researching before I decided to buy this. 

Got it from a reputable grey dealer at a nice price. New old stock too heh

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Thanks. It was launched in 2013 and still current yours is a 2014 number
A


----------



## sonofeve

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Thanks. It was launched in 2013 and still current yours is a 2014 number
> A


Yea wanted q series. Was lucky to find a new one and most importantly sandwich dial! 

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk


----------



## LPhiE

Guys, wanted to get your thoughts on this PAM 111 before I pull the trigger. I believe it is genuine, but the low quality pictures bugs me a little bit and the seller claims it's the best pictures his camera can take. The serial number on the case back matches with the warranty card. Just want some peace of mind before I make the transaction happen. Here are some pics sent to me:










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## _diplomat_

LPhiE said:


> Guys, wanted to get your thoughts on this PAM 111 before I pull the trigger. I believe it is genuine, but the low quality pictures bugs me a little bit and the seller claims it's the best pictures his camera can take. The serial number on the case back matches with the warranty card. Just want some peace of mind before I make the transaction happen. Here are some pics sent to me:


Where is the swan neck screw?


----------



## korneevy

LPhiE said:


> Guys, wanted to get your thoughts on this PAM 111 before I pull the trigger. I believe it is genuine, but the low quality pictures bugs me a little bit and the seller claims it's the best pictures his camera can take. The serial number on the case back matches with the warranty card. Just want some peace of mind before I make the transaction happen. Here are some pics sent to me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fake as fakes come on my view. But more generally - Why would you buy something like this? There are 000s of them for sale on secondary market, yet you go with grainy photos and missing swan neck movements?


----------



## bobbee

Very fake.
Seller using a camera (can see it in reflections), so why not take better pics? The screws holding swan neck adjuster show too close to the edge, and tip is rounded, not concave curved.
And the adjuster screw missing!


----------



## Wmp90

LPhiE said:


> Guys, wanted to get your thoughts on this PAM 111 before I pull the trigger. I believe it is genuine, but the low quality pictures bugs me a little bit and the seller claims it's the best pictures his camera can take. The serial number on the case back matches with the warranty card. Just want some peace of mind before I make the transaction happen. Here are some pics sent to me:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This looks like the fake that I ALMOST got stuck with had it not been for WUS!


----------



## LPhiE

korneevy said:


> Fake as fakes come on my view. But more generally - Why would you buy something like this? There are 000s of them for sale on secondary market, yet you go with grainy photos and missing swan neck movements?


The seller originally did not have any pictures on their sale thread. He sent me those photos after I requested photos and then I requested clearer photos. My suspicions were raised but I wanted to double check with people who knew Pams.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LPhiE

bobbee said:


> Very fake.
> Seller using a camera (can see it in reflections), so why not take better pics? The screws holding swan neck adjuster show too close to the edge, and tip is rounded, not concave curved.
> And the adjuster screw missing!


Thank you for the info. I've asked him for clear shots of the entire case back and he has yet to produce it. Looks like my suspicions were correct. Thank you guys!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LPhiE

Wmp90 said:


> This looks like the fake that I ALMOST got stuck with had it not been for WUS!


And thanks to everyone here, I will not be stuck with it either.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BrunoGeuth

What are your thoughts about this one?

Panerai Luminor 1950 in goede staat, verzendingsko, Sieraden en Horloges, Zonhoven | Kapaza.be

Thanks!
Bruno in Belgium


----------



## T1meout

LPhiE said:


> Guys, wanted to get your thoughts on this PAM 111 before I pull the trigger. I believe it is genuine, but the low quality pictures bugs me a little bit and the seller claims it's the best pictures his camera can take. The serial number on the case back matches with the warranty card. Just want some peace of mind before I make the transaction happen. Here are some pics sent to me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Some rats will go to great lengths to scam people out of their money.
Do yourself a favor. Delete all his mails and ad him to your blocked contacts list.


----------



## _diplomat_

BrunoGeuth said:


> What are your thoughts about this one?
> 
> Panerai Luminor 1950 in goede staat, verzendingsko, Sieraden en Horloges, Zonhoven | Kapaza.be
> 
> Thanks!
> Bruno in Belgium


Yes, sure, a Fiddy for 150€.... c'mon guys! You don't have to look at the badly replied movement to tell!!!


----------



## LPhiE

T1meout said:


> Some rats will go to great lengths to scam people out of their money.
> Do yourself a favor. Delete all his mails and ad him to your blocked contacts list.


Will do!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## korneevy

BrunoGeuth said:


> What are your thoughts about this one?
> 
> Panerai Luminor 1950 in goede staat, verzendingsko, Sieraden en Horloges, Zonhoven | Kapaza.be
> 
> Thanks!
> Bruno in Belgium


Of course, it's real. You should buy it without delay - getting a $15,000 watch for $200 is quite normal and an acceptable business practice.


----------



## LPhiE

He sent me another crappy pictures. He says it's an N series watch, but the caseback clearly says "P". What a scumbag!!










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## breitlingman12

What about this one?,I am worried about the movement,the dial looks fine to me,sorry about the bad pictures


----------



## Nasir Askar

Don't know whether it is genuine or not, but it is one majestic piece. I would not believe if a counterfeiter would care for so much details


----------



## bobbee

I don't think so.
The engraving to the case front looks different to that here: Panerai Radiomir Firenze 3 Days PAM672 Watch With Engraved Case & Movement | aBlogtoWatch

The flowers at the corners lack the definition of those in the link, the centres are too thickly done.
The balance bridge is different, there is no "waist" (arrowed in pics) either side of the small screws. The engraving lacks definition too.
The balance is in the wrong position, it should be at 7 o'clock not 5 o'clock.
The case back screws lack the fit and finish of those in the link.
The embossed logo on the strap is different too, it has a long point at the tip, the real one doesn't.

Fake.

Edit- The click spring window and the two small holes next to it are simply etched into the barrel bridge in the fake, ringed in pics.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Interesting the fake and the "genuine" have same serial number (000025)!
A


----------



## korneevy

breitlingman12 said:


> What about this one?,I am worried about the movement,the dial looks fine to me,sorry about the bad pictures


El-chipo fugazi. The bridges are cheap stamped stickers.


----------



## bobbee

Looks like the fakers used the official press photo of the movement to load into their CAD laser engraver. All the pics show the same serial no. "000025".

News: Panerai Unveils 12 New Watches. Including the Radiomir Firenze, the New Luminor Due Line and the New Luminor Marina Collection with Calibre P.9010. - WATCH COLLECTING LIFESTYLE

TimeZone : Officine Panerai » High-res images PAM 672 RADIOMIR FIRENZE 3 DAYS ACCIAIO - 47MM >>>

I have even found the site selling these fakes, very detailed photos showing all the above, but in greater and closer detail.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I know it - surprised no one else pointed out the serial number issue?


----------



## bobbee

Hope the OP can get a refund.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I dont think he bought it yet


----------



## Wlover

That's not the serial number....



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I know it - surprised no one else pointed out the serial number issue?


----------



## T1meout

bobbee said:


> Looks like the fakers used the official press photo of the movement to load into their CAD laser engraver. All the pics show the same serial no. "000025".
> 
> News: Panerai Unveils 12 New Watches. Including the Radiomir Firenze, the New Luminor Due Line and the New Luminor Marina Collection with Calibre P.9010. - WATCH COLLECTING LIFESTYLE
> 
> TimeZone : Officine Panerai » High-res images PAM 672 RADIOMIR FIRENZE 3 DAYS ACCIAIO - 47MM >>>
> 
> I have even found the site selling these fakes, very detailed photos showing all the above, but in greater and closer detail.


Nice work!


----------



## breitlingman12

THank you so much you guys are awesome I had a suspicion and you guys confirmed have a super one,appreciate all your help I will pass on this one for sure


----------



## BrunoGeuth

Have these guys ever been reported here?

http://www.joinwatch.org/panerai-lu...p-10947.html?zenid=4j5l5audd4fksjda06qpu9dnh7

Bruno in Belgium


----------



## BrunoGeuth

Have these guys ever been reported here?

http://www.joinwatch.org/panerai-lu...p-10947.html?zenid=4j5l5audd4fksjda06qpu9dnh7

Bruno in Belgium


----------



## WatchScene

Seller claims authenticity on this PAM00643, but I have my doubts and wanted to confirm with the experts here. Thanks!!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

What is the OP NUMBER on back case ?


----------



## korneevy

Powdernation said:


> Seller claims authenticity on this PAM00643, but I have my doubts and wanted to confirm with the experts here. Thanks!!
> 
> View attachment 9829066
> View attachment 9829082
> View attachment 9829090


None of us are "experts". No expert in the world can tell you much by looking at these low res photos. If you have ANY doubts, run - you'll find dozens of these watches for sale any day of the week, why bother? Move on


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Yours is the OP 6723 - correct? Pam 292!

Should look like this
https://www.google.com/search?q=OP+...hVj2IMKHZq7BL0Q_AUICCgD#imgrc=2LwKADTjAI7n0M:


----------



## _diplomat_

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yours is the OP 6723 - correct? Pam 292!
> 
> Should look like this
> https://www.google.com/search?q=OP+...hVj2IMKHZq7BL0Q_AUICCgD#imgrc=2LwKADTjAI7n0M:


More a 643. 
292 is with seconds @9 and sandwich.
Regs,


----------



## Synequano

Does 643 has the same CB as 292? Never played with one in person so I can't comment on 643


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

_diplomat_ said:


> More a 643.
> 292 is with seconds @9 and sandwich.
> Regs,


Yes agreed dial wise, but that model is not marked on back case OP 6723. Can you find a OP 6723 like yours?

Here is a PAM 643 back case!
https://www.chronometryx.com/en/panerai/panerai-pam-643.html


----------



## _diplomat_

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yes agreed dial wise, but that model is not marked on back case OP 6723. Can you find a OP 6723 like yours?
> 
> Here is a PAM 643 back case!
> https://www.chronometryx.com/en/panerai/panerai-pam-643.html


Yes you are right but 643 has 6723 case. The speciemen in the link is photoshopped because of the serial number (following line after the OP number).

Regs,


----------



## Wlover

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yes agreed dial wise, but that model is not marked on back case OP 6723. Can you find a OP 6723 like yours?
> 
> Here is a PAM 643 back case!
> https://www.chronometryx.com/en/panerai/panerai-pam-643.html


Lol!!! He's still clueless after 11,000 posts.... Oops.


----------



## gregwolf92

I am currently in the process of purchasing a PAM 168 off eBay, but have some reserves about its authenticity. First off, the watch is not coming with a box or papers. The seller says he has a receipt of purchase he will include but that is all.


----------



## bobbee

_diplomat_ said:


> Yes you are right but 643 has 6723 case. The speciemen in the link is photoshopped because of the serial number (following line after the OP number).
> 
> Regs,


Correct.
Here are some PAM00643's from chrono24 with the case back showing the OP6723 case number.

Panerai : Rare Radiomir 45 mm Ceramic "PAM 643" Full Set for £5,791 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24

Panerai New Radiomir Stainless Steel Black Manual Wind Pam00643 for £4,714 for sale from a Seller on Chrono24

Panerai Pam 643 Radiomir Ceramica Watches 45mm for £5,360 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24

Note: I tried to find only non-stock photos, I doubt ALL these are fakes but the OP's pictures don't really give us enough to go on to give an opinion.
Movement and clearer (closer) case back pics needed.

Bob.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

gregwolf92 said:


> I am currently in the process of purchasing a PAM 168 off eBay, but have some reserves about its authenticity. First off, the watch is not coming with a box or papers. The seller says he has a receipt of purchase he will include but that is all.


Your watch is an *OP 6763* (NOT 6723) which I believe relates to an *PAM 164* NOT a 168!
Which "looks" more like your watch both in dial and case back
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/...s-steel-limited-edition-5572721-details.aspx/
https://www.google.com/search?q=Pan...=uiQjWO7cKMSsjwSmmIaoAQ#imgrc=UJIstX6dgkiB8M:

It uses an ETA 7750 movement and looks like this (same as yours)
Panerai Luminor Marina steel automatic Kal. OP III ETA A05511 Ref. OP6648 PAM00220 | 142454 | Zeitauktion

Adam


----------



## bobbee

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Your watch is an *OP 6763* (NOT 6723) which I believe relates to an *PAM 164* NOT a 168!
> Which "looks" more like your watch both in dial and case back
> http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/...s-steel-limited-edition-5572721-details.aspx/
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Panerai+OP+6763&tbm=isch&imgil=UJIstX6dgkiB8M%253A%253B5JV4BlSAM1b6RM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.chrono24.com%25252Fen%25252Fpanerai%25252Fpanerai-luminor-marina-limited-edition-pam104--id3844402.htm&source=iu&pf=m&fir=UJIstX6dgkiB8M%253A%252C5JV4BlSAM1b6RM%252C_&usg=__B7E-3PC3Z8qv3tX7tltzsiPyTTI%3D&biw=1093&bih=510&ved=0ahUKEwjuocX545vQAhVE1oMKHSaMARUQyjcIKg&ei=uiQjWO7cKMSsjwSmmIaoAQ#imgrc=UJIstX6dgkiB8M%3A
> 
> It uses an ETA 7750 movement and looks like this (same as yours)
> Panerai Luminor Marina steel automatic Kal. OP III ETA A05511 Ref. OP6648 PAM00220 | 142454 | Zeitauktion
> 
> Adam


Great, but the OP's movement looks similar, TOO similar. Probably because the picture of the movement in your link is the same one _*exactly*_ as the one used in the OP, but turned upside-down and cropped to hide the lugs, which are different.
And I don't think he mentions it as being a "OP 6723" case, as the photo shows the case back as a OP 6763.

I would ask the seller why the movement picture is stolen from the above sellers linked images.


----------



## bobbee

*Duplicate.*


----------



## bobbee

No, changed my mind, I would give it a miss completely.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I suspect that all sellers use a Panerai photo-shot photo of that movement, because the case is sealed. Just a guess
So the movement "looks" genuine, but I got NO idea if its from that watch.

Adam


----------



## bobbee

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I got NO idea if its from that watch.
> 
> Adam


I do.
Here are the pics of the seller in your link, and the Op's pic turned upside down.

Edit- using stock/other people's photos is dishonest.
Unless it says this is so in the description. I doubt it was.
















Same pic, rotated and cropped.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

cool
Yes I know that.
The two points I was making were
a) ORIGINALLY
you/OP were discussing/comparing to wrong PAM.
It is important we compare like to like.

Then afterwards, I am saying I got "no idea if *that* movement"* is in the OP's watch.
BUT
I suspect that everyone just uses Panerai site photo of that movement due to the fact its a non exhibition back

no more no less

Adam

*


----------



## bobbee

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> cool
> Yes I know that.
> The two points I was making were
> a) ORIGINALLY
> you/OP were discussing/comparing to wrong PAM.
> It is important we compare like to like.
> 
> Then afterwards, I am saying I got "no idea if *that* movement"* is in the OP's watch.
> BUT
> I suspect that everyone just uses Panerai site photo of that movement due to the fact its a non exhibition back
> 
> no more no less
> 
> Adam
> 
> *


I would like you to point out where I was "ORIGINALLY discussing/comparing to wrong PAM".

I think you are mistaken.

P.S.
Suspecting and knowing are two different things. Knowing something, and having proof to back up that knowledge is infinitely preferable to suspicion.
When viewing photographs, I tend to look for things like dissimilarities in background/lighting/colours. These help distinguish the genuine from the fake, or "borrowed".


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

bobbee said:


> I would like you to point out where I was "ORIGINALLY discussing/comparing to wrong PAM".
> 
> .


Like here?
https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/panerai-real-thread-802260-134.html#post35370778

You are talking about and displaying links to a OP 67*2*3
The OP watch case is OP 67*6*3

Plus its a different PAM model completely to the OP's watch.

Regards
adam
PS: I wont be responding further.


----------



## bobbee

"It is important we compare like to like".

In this case, re. the movement, you were comparing same to same. If as you say "you knew that", then that was not comparing like to like.


----------



## bobbee

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Like here?
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/panerai-real-thread-802260-134.html#post35370778
> 
> You are talking about and displaying links to a OP 67*2*3
> The OP watch case is OP 67*6*3
> 
> Plus its a different PAM model completely to the OP's watch.
> 
> Regards
> adam
> PS: I wont be responding further.


Ah, I see your mistake there.
I was responding to another post, the one before the "168". You can tell this by the quotation at the top of my post (#1335) that you link to, and by the subject matter.

It is entirely your choice not to respond, have a good day.


----------



## Synequano

That's definitely not 168..168 is a 40mm bimetal luminor regatta chrono with bimetal bracelet,blue/silver dial and 7753 movt,only 399 were made in 2002 (IIRC)


----------



## bobbee

Yes, perhaps the OP was mistaken? Or the seller.
Whichever, as I said earlier, I would pass on this because of the use of someone else's movement pic, and also that mistake too.


----------



## cb1111

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I suspect that all sellers use a Panerai photo-shot photo of that movement, because the case is sealed. Just a guess
> So the movement "looks" genuine, but I got NO idea if its from that watch.
> 
> Adam


Actually, since two different sellers are using the same photo, then it clearly isn't from that watch. If the German auction site (housed in a residential section of a little dump called Chemnitz) has a larger photo of that movement (showing more case), then we can assume that the eBay seller is improperly using their photo - something that should offend you greatly and it is a clear IP violation. It is also likely that the German auction site is using a pilfered photo so they are suspect as well.

Since we are on "buy the seller" topic, watch_stylez seems to sell bracelet parts and only two watches. They are selling something out of their league and would you really buy a watch from a person billing themselves as "watch_stylez"

Looking at this in totality, I think one can safely advise the poster to stay away from this one - what you see is NOT what you get.


----------



## cb1111

bobbee said:


> I do.
> Here are the pics of the seller in your link, and the Op's pic turned upside down.
> 
> Edit- using stock/other people's photos is dishonest.
> Unless it says this is so in the description. I doubt it was.
> 
> View attachment 9880018
> 
> View attachment 9880026
> 
> 
> Same pic, rotated and cropped.


C'mon, they are clearly two different photos. The first says Zeitauktion.com on the bottom and the second doesn't. The mere fact that you can see a strip of the gray banner is mere coincidence. (where's the damn "sarcasm" emoji when you need it?)


----------



## cb1111

And that, as a expert in authenticity, should make you mighty mad. Why doesn't it?

Is it because we've grown so accustomed to IP theft that we no longer pay it any attention?

There is a huge difference between using a stock photo (from the manufacturer or otherwise) here on the forum as an example of "this it what it should look like" (the educational, limited use exception) and using a stock photo to misrepresent an item you are trying to sell.

I'm not even sure it would be ethical to use a photo provided to you by a prior seller if you then go on to sell the watch unless that is fully disclosed.

You should condemn this practice rather than explaining it away with "everybody probably does it". With that thinking, it is OK to buy a Rolex on Canal Street and resell it as real because "everybody does it"

It isn't legal, it isn't ethical and you should be the first to step up and condemn it.


HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ...
> *
> BUT
> I suspect that everyone just uses Panerai site photo of that movement due to the fact its a non exhibition back
> 
> no more no less
> 
> Adam
> 
> *


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I suspect the OP, would prefer to know if the watch is genuine or fake and why? And not the ethics or laws in using stock photos in their listings.

Adam


----------



## bobbee

cb1111 said:


> Actually, since two different sellers are using the same photo, then it clearly isn't from that watch. If the German auction site (housed in a residential section of a little dump called Chemnitz) has a larger photo of that movement (showing more case), then we can assume that the eBay seller is improperly using their photo - something that should offend you greatly and it is a clear IP violation. It is also likely that the German auction site is using a pilfered photo so they are suspect as well.
> 
> Since we are on "buy the seller" topic, watch_stylez seems to sell bracelet parts and only two watches. They are selling something out of their league and would you really buy a watch from a person billing themselves as "watch_stylez"
> 
> Looking at this in totality, I think one can safely advise the poster to stay away from this one - what you see is NOT what you get.


Isn't this practice of using stock photos the same practice fake watch makers are known to use?

Does this mean all the photos shown by the OP of the "168" watch are stock photos? Even if not, using just one stock or stolen photo is dishonesty, and points toward the watch for sale as being either fake, or non-existent, or at the very least the movement caliber/condition unknown by the seller.


----------



## cb1111

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I suspect the OP, would prefer to know if the watch is genuine or fake and why? And not the ethics or laws in using stock photos in their listings.
> 
> Adam


 I was actually surprised to hear your response for two reasons:

First, you said you wouldn't respond further, but secondly (and more importantly) in your purported role as authenticity expert you should be taking IP theft very seriously and you should be preaching that "if the photo isn't real, then the watch probably isn't either" and hammer those sites that allow internet photos without proper attribution.

You make a valid point that some sellers don't want to pull the back of the watch to show the movement but if they feel compelled for some strange reason to show a picture of what the movement might look like then they should either link to the manufacturer's site or get written permission from the owner of the picture and attribute it correctly.

You cannot be a credible "fake buster" if you do not stand up for IP rights. Quite frankly, what is the difference between making a copy of a photograph and making a copy of a watch? Both are misrepresenting what they are and both harm the owner of the original and the buyer. This is a rhetorical question as you said you wouldn't respond and I take you at your word.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Very Interesting - thanks your insight.
Regards
Adam Harris


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Worth a read:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f505/tudor-heritage-ranger-3749002.html#post35439418


----------



## cb1111

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Worth a read:
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f505/tudor-heritage-ranger-3749002.html#post35439418


And like I said there, a reputable seller can add a stock photo as long as it is properly attributed.

In the Tudor thread, imagwai said that he sometimes adds a stock photo so that the buyer can compare it to the exact model he is offering. Don't you see the difference between passing off a stock photo as your own (or a photo of the actual watch being sold) and adding a properly attributed stock photo as a comparison?

You bill yourself as an expert in detecting fakes. You have seminars that you shill for here but if you are really interested in getting rid of fakes then standing up for IP rights is part of that. That's all part of "Ethics 101" - perhaps you should look into taking that class.
Sorry Adam, but you won't catch me in a contradiction here.


----------



## bobbee

I agree, showing a stock photo of the model being sold is totally different to the practice here: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread - Page 134
That is showing a photo of a movement, that has been cropped to hide the parts not matching those in the watch for sale, and trying to pass it off as belonging to the watch being sold.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

of course you would. lol


----------



## bobbee

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> of course you would. lol


Of course I would what?
Sorry, I don't understand your meaning?


----------



## cb1111

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> of course you would. lol


If your goal is to flush what little is left of your reputation down the toilet, then you're doing real well.

Can we get back on topic?


----------



## roach7

*Re: IS THIS ONE GENYOUWINE?*

Fake?

Panerai Submersible watch NO RESERVE | eBay
182384797442


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Not sure.
There are a few things that just dont come across as correct quality to this, and not great photos.

Personally, I would want better photos and pics of papers.

To me, the "jury is still out"


----------



## cb1111

Is it supposed to be this watch?









Luminor Submersible 1950 Carbotech™ 3 Days Automatic - 47mm - Panerai watch

What's with the comma between the 4 and 5 on the bezel?

Doesn't this watch have an AR coating?

While I don't know this watch, I'd be very leery with this watch. If the comma isn't supposed to be there then it is fake.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Its the PAM 616

A few issues/ items point to FAKE

But with those photos, I can not report it as definite.

People that buy $17.000 watches like this, cheap, with no checking must really be believing in Santa Clause


----------



## cb1111

There are also a few spots where it appears to show shiny metal. Where did that come from if the thing is ceramic?

Like Adam said, who in their right mind thinks a $17k watch that sells for a fraction of what it is worth is just begging to be ripped off.

As everyone here (with the exception of Adam) says - buy the seller. Here, the seller has several inexpensive watches and this other Panerai. Quite frankly, if Panerai finishes their high end watches like this then I don't want a Panerai.

Panerai Radiomir Black Seal Watch Limited Edition With Papers | eBay


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

What I can say, is that PANERAI make EXCEPTIONALLY high quality watches in case, dial and movement.
Everything is perfect (on a genuine)
a


----------



## cb1111

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> What I can say, is that PANERAI make EXCEPTIONALLY high quality watches in case, dial and movement.
> Everything is perfect (on a genuine)
> a


Since when did you start using the term "genuine"? That's a term normally used by the fake watch community.

Here's what we know about this watch:

Seller has numerous inexpensive watches for sale - Invicta, Diesel, Seiko and two "Panerai watches"
The Panerai watches have fuzzy pictures. Most of the other auctions from this seller are sharp
The "Radiomir" has a very flaky looking movement with rough finishes

What are the chances of a seller selling one fake and one real Panerai? Accordingly, by "buying the seller", we can conclude that the other Panerai isn't real either. Both are allegedly from his private collection so we can conclude that he knows what he has.

I've reported both to eBay. Perhaps that will make it easier for the buyer to get a refund.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

cb1111 said:


> Since when did you start using the term "genuine"? That's a term normally used by the fake watch community.
> 
> .


What are you talking about?
"Luxury or Lie?tm Identifying the *Genuine* from the Fake"


----------



## cb1111

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> What are you talking about?
> "Luxury or Lie?tm Identifying the *Genuine* from the Fake"


Perhaps you aren't as much of an expert as you think you are. Normal people say "genuine watch", "genuine smile" or whatever. As you apparently don't know, the "replica" (fake) community refers to "gen" or "genuine" when speaking about real watches.

But that's OK, we understand that you don't know the difference between real and fake watches. I recall you once linked to a picture on a "fake watch" site as an example of a "real" watch.


----------



## awu917

Hey guys, just picked this up today. I did a bunch of research and am pretty certain it's real, just thought i'd run it by you guys for extra peace of mind.


----------



## T1meout

Personally, I have never seen a P5000 faked before, but that certainly doesn't count for sh*t.

Others with more knowledge will chime in.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

100% genuine
ENJOY a GREAT watch
adam


----------



## bigclive2011

What would you do if we all said fake??

Surely the time to work it out is before you spend your $??

But if you paid proper money, got all the boxes and papers, and the watch looked and felt like quality, and you didn't buy it from a "Bum for $50" which was one we had the other day!! Then you should be fine.

Advice for next time is do your research first and always buy the seller!!


----------



## dmar842

Is this real? I am buying from a used dealer, but wanted to double check first. Thanks a lot!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hi and welcome
Photos are useless. That said my first impressions from what I can see is FAKE

What model number is it exactly, so I can confirm the movement + better photos of dial and back case/movement
adam


----------



## dmar842

OP 6816 Model Number. 

Thank you very much.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

dmar842 said:


> OP 6816 Model Number.
> 
> Thank you very much.


Thanks
Fake - it should have the Panerai P9000 movement - looks like this
https://www.google.es/search?q=pane...UICCgB&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=K0PAqziTWl-IJM:

Genuine watch looks like this
http://www.panerai.com/en/collectio...3-days-automatic-acciaio---44mm_pam00312.html

That and a few other points makes yours FAKE
adam


----------



## T1meout

dmar842 said:


> View attachment 10245362
> View attachment 10245370
> 
> 
> Is this real? I am buying from a used dealer, but wanted to double check first. Thanks a lot!


Undoubtably fake. Must be a dealer on canal street.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

T1meout said:


> Undoubtably fake. Must be a dealer on canal street.


Aye and LOL


----------



## philskywalker

fake...


----------



## Synequano

That looks sooo fake.....even the numbers on the dial looks off


----------



## SNas

This watch has me concerned because it looks so much like the original. It is fake but it looks real to me. Can you spot any problems with it? It is a replica Panerai Luminor Base. The swan neck regulator and incabloc look legit to me. 
(To be clear, I did not purchase this watch, these are images from the website)


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Looks genuine to me. Please pm me the site


----------



## korneevy

this looks like an original second-hand Panerai (just look at wear marks all over the watch and strap, in particular..who would sell a USED replica, must I know..). The fact that these photos are off some replica site prove exactly nothing - they can use photos of a genuine article, and ship you some of the monstrosities prominently featured in this thread.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

korneevy said:


> this looks like an original second-hand Panerai (just look at wear marks all over the watch and strap, in particular..who would sell a USED replica, must I know..). The fact that these photos are off some replica site prove exactly nothing - they can use photos of a genuine article, and ship you some of the monstrosities prominently featured in this thread.


my thoughts exactly
a


----------



## SNas

Thanks. I thought it was an authentic watch. Its amazing that these sites continue to exist and process payments through vise/mastercard etc.


----------



## sicsemperperplexus

This watch came with box, manuals, tags (with matching serial numbers) and manuals and the certificate of guarantee showing what I assume is the original purchaser's name, date of sale and stamp from a dealer in Dallas, TX. To my untrained eye it looks authentic, but I appreciate that counterfeiters have been making fake watches for a lot longer than I've been evaluating them, so I'm curious what it looks like to more trained eyes.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

GENUINE
Nice Piece
a


----------



## sicsemperperplexus

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> GENUINE
> Nice Piece
> a


Thanks!


----------



## Tdizle

Look at these assholes. 









i didn't know they were faking the p9000 movement. If I didn't have a 312 to compare too, it's scary similar at first glance.
is there a way to report this stuff? It's so blantenly ripping off that someone is going to spend real money on this .....


----------



## bigclive2011

The rip off replica p9000 movements always have the balance wheel in the wrong place, so you can easily spot them.

Just go online and google images of the real McCoy and compare.


----------



## diablogt

There r tons of comparison of each model on google. Do ppl really want to check the watch before they buy or they just wanna check if ppl can spot their fake watches? Full box with papers of matching number from a highly rated sellers will be much better guarantee than asking here tbh


----------



## e9stibi

Gen


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Maddog1970

Hey guys, long time huge Pam fan, lurking mostly in the dive watch forum right now......have been pushed by the likes of Bigclive2011 to dip my toe into Panerai land and found this......hence the question - is it real?

so is this a real PAM380 Black Seal OP6826?
to be clear, I have not even made an offer on it yet.
owner says he is the original, purchased in 2015.

pics are not the best, but any opinion appreciated!

































Anyone?


----------



## batousai

Get him to open up the back for a pic of the movement. Your answer lies there. If there's no box and papers, I would not recommend buying it.


----------



## DieSkim

Tdizle said:


> Look at these assholes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i didn't know they were faking the p9000 movement. If I didn't have a 312 to compare too, it's scary similar at first glance.
> is there a way to report this stuff? It's so blantenly ripping off that someone is going to spend real money on this .....


So much wrong with this rep, you shouldn't even have to look at the movement


----------



## bigclive2011

Maddog,

First off if he is the original owner it should come with all the (3) boxes, papers and cards?

Secondly how is his provenance? I.E bum on a park bench, as we had recently, or a gen guy with feedback, or a dealer.

Lastly pics are a hard call, as a Panerai is a quality watch, and when in the hand a fake shouts lack of quality compared to the real McCoy.

So if the above all add up then go for it.


----------



## Maddog1970

Thanks guys


----------



## Maddog1970

So the current owner will not/can not provide a pic of the movement, and as I am getting a "if it's to good to be true......" Vibe, I will step away and continue my search!

back to looking for a 380 or 000

thanks guys!


----------



## korneevy

Maddog1970 said:


> So the current owner will not/can not provide a pic of the movement, and as I am getting a "if it's to good to be true......" Vibe, I will step away and continue my search!
> 
> back to looking for a 380 or 000
> 
> thanks guys!


Hundreds of them on sale from many, many reputed second hand dealers with boxes, papers, warranties and extended insurance - why risk for the sake of saving a few hundred dollars, I never understand this. Don't take unnecessary risks - what Yiu are looking for is widely available.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Maddog1970

korneevy said:


> Hundreds of them on sale from many, many reputed second hand dealers with boxes, papers, warranties and extended insurance - why risk for the sake of saving a few hundred dollars, I never understand this. Don't take unnecessary risks - what Yiu are looking for is widely available.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yup, and my search is back on......

given the price point, I am more concerned about the sellers reputation, warranties, etc, not cheaping out, as that would likely bite me in butt down the road....


----------



## West Coast

Hey guys I'm a newbie around here and trying to learn the trade. I've been given some sound info by one of the members on where and who to buy from but I have a question about something I just noticed while I was browsing a leading grey market seller who I've heard a lot of very good things about. They quote on their site that all serials are intact so I got a bit confused with the photo they put up of the 1312 - why does it appear to have no serials? As I said I'm a noob at this so would appreciate if someone could help me out with this - I'm assuming there's a fairly obvious explanation for this. Txs.


----------



## korneevy

West Coast said:


> Hey guys I'm a newbie around here and trying to learn the trade. I've been given some sound info by one of the members on where and who to buy from but I have a question about something I just noticed while I was browsing a leading grey market seller who I've heard a lot of very good things about. They quote on their site that all serials are intact so I got a bit confused with the photo they put up of the 1312 - why does it appear to have no serials? As I said I'm a noob at this so would appreciate if someone could help me out with this - I'm assuming there's a fairly obvious explanation for this. Txs.


Why don't you ask them? Seems logical , right?

It's common practice by online dealers to blur the serials, I personally think it's idiotic and doesn't help anybody but it is what many of them do. Ask for unedited photo and you shall receive...


----------



## T1meout

West Coast said:


> Hey guys I'm a newbie around here and trying to learn the trade. I've been given some sound info by one of the members on where and who to buy from but I have a question about something I just noticed while I was browsing a leading grey market seller who I've heard a lot of very good things about. They quote on their site that all serials are intact so I got a bit confused with the photo they put up of the 1312 - why does it appear to have no serials? As I said I'm a noob at this so would appreciate if someone could help me out with this - I'm assuming there's a fairly obvious explanation for this. Txs.


It's done so as not to aid counterfeiters and to impede insurance fraud.


----------



## T1meout

Sorry, double post.


----------



## West Coast

^^^^ - thanks for the explanation guys. Makes sense.


----------



## sicsemperperplexus

I figured that the counterfeiters probably didn't spend much time reproducing left-handed models, so I took the plunge. It needs some cleanup, but it feels pretty good.


----------



## T1meout

That pam123 looks like it's in bad shape.
Was it worn by a pig?
Can't tell if it's real or not unless we get to see the movement.
What's the point of the last picture? Trying to throw us off?


----------



## Synequano

I was about to ask the same question...why the difference in serial number? I guess the poster attached the wrong pic?


----------



## sicsemperperplexus

The last pic can be disregarded. I wasn't paying attention when I attached it.

Thanks for taking a look.



T1meout said:


> That pam123 looks like it's in bad shape.
> Was it worn by a pig?
> Can't tell if it's real or not unless we get to see the movement.
> What's the point of the last picture? Trying to throw us off?


----------



## 604d

Is this panerai real?

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## T1meout

At the poker table. Lol.
Pic's to blurry. Can't tell.
Tell him you prefer cash, just to be on the safe side.


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



604d said:


> Is this panerai real?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Sure it is. Yours for only $5K. Just look at that beautiful incablock and totally invisible swan neck needle. So pretty...

PS: of course it is not.


----------



## mheller1290

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Scanned the forums and everything checks out so far as it being real. Case has seen better days. Glass is mint. Local jeweler leaning towards it being real and was about 65% sure. Anyone have any suggestions on its status.


----------



## korneevy

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



mheller1290 said:


> Scanned the forums and everything checks out so far as it being real. Case has seen better days. Glass is mint. Local jeweler leaning towards it being real and was about 65% sure. Anyone have any suggestions on its status.
> View attachment 10809177
> View attachment 10809185
> View attachment 10809193


Here we go again... Open the caseback, take close up on the movement. Focus on stamping under the balance wheel and decoration on the main plate. Don't buy Panerai without box and matching papers. Don't buy anything that is "64%" genuine. Don't buy used if you can't get it properly authenticated or don't know what a balance wheel
Is. Keep "scanning forums" of you want to buy used. Buy brand new from AD if you can't be bothered with anything above. Repeat.


----------



## mheller1290

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

My fiancé found this, lucky me. Fake or real its a win. No need to get cocky, sorry i didn't want to read through 142 pages of this...


----------



## korneevy

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



mheller1290 said:


> My fiancé found this, lucky me. Fake or real its a win. No need to get cocky, sorry i didn't want to read through 142 pages of this...


With all due respect, you only need to read any 3 pages in this thread to get your basics covered - it's the same thing every time. $5K vs 3 pages... I'll take the pages, but each to their own. Show a good high res photo of the movement and we may be able to help. Alternatively , ask your girl how nun she spent on this - if it's $500, you won't need to bother further...


----------



## mheller1290

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Found**** thanks for all your responses though


----------



## korneevy

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



mheller1290 said:


> Found**** thanks for all your responses though


Tell us more? What's with the asterisks?


----------



## Matt C

It's impossible to tell without seeing the movement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mheller1290




----------



## DieSkim

Where do you just "find" a Panerai... whether real or fake ... same question?


----------



## mheller1290

Really just looking for some help to determine if this is real or not.


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



mheller1290 said:


> Really just looking for some help to determine if this is real or not.


You are likely have to a Chinese copy with a Swiss movement. That's as far as this can be authenticated from grainy photos. Take it to a Panerai boutique and leave it with them for full service or try selling it to a used watch dealer, and you'll have your answers.


----------



## mheller1290

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



korneevy said:


> You are likely have to a Chinese copy with a Swiss movement. That's as far as this can be authenticated from grainy photos. Take it to a Panerai boutique and leave it with them for full service or try selling it to a used watch dealer, and you'll have your answers.


ok thanks!


----------



## drlvegas

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

I've been trolling ebay for a 000.

I'm no expert, so I'm curious if you Paneristi can tell if this watch looks correct.

Panerai Luminor Logo Stainless Steel Watch PAM000 J Series Wrist Watch | eBay

I would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks


----------



## sicsemperperplexus

Following up my earlier PAM 123 Destro G-series post, opening up the back does indeed tell a different story. From what I read, it should have a Calibre OP IX movement.


----------



## Maddog1970

Real or fake?...back of a PAM112 I am following in eBay...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Maddog1970 said:


> Real or fake?...back of a PAM112 I am following in eBay...
> 
> View attachment 10904985


Not adequate movement photo to 100% authenticate, but from what I can see, it looks OK.
You need further clear and direct on movement photos, to be 100% certain


----------



## CJ_Sandman

Hello all, I am new to the forum. I would like to express my appreciation for the wealth of knowledge you gentlemen have put together here, and would like to offer the following situation for your analysis:

I purchased a PAM 111 on Monday from what appears to be a large and reputable brick-and-mortar shop, and then promptly decided to return it before they shipped it. The owner of the shop was not happy, but was not willing to offer any explanation as to how they authenticate or guarantee their timepieces -- in fact, when I expressed my concern, he told me: "there are too many models, it is impossible to know" -- this was a huge red flag and I knew I made the right decision regardless of the authenticity of the watch.

Other pertinent details:
-no box/papers
-strap not genuine
-eBay seller with a large amount of excellent feedback and generally good online reviews

My belief is that one of the following two scenarios are likely: a.) the watch is a fake; b.) the watch is authentic but has been repaired with incorrect parts

Without further adieu, some pictures (I apologize if they are of poor quality, these are directly from the seller)


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

CJ_Sandman said:


> Hello all, I am new to the forum. I would like to express my appreciation for the wealth of knowledge you gentlemen have put together here, and would like to offer the following situation for your analysis:
> 
> I purchased a PAM 111 on Monday from what appears to be a large and reputable brick-and-mortar shop, and then promptly decided to return it before they shipped it. The owner of the shop was not happy, but was not willing to offer any explanation as to how they authenticate or guarantee their timepieces -- in fact, when I expressed my concern, he told me: "there are too many models, it is impossible to know" -- this was a huge red flag and I knew I made the right decision regardless of the authenticity of the watch.
> 
> Other pertinent details:
> -no box/papers
> -strap not genuine
> -eBay seller with a large amount of excellent feedback and generally good online reviews
> 
> My belief is that one of the following two scenarios are likely: a.) the watch is a fake; b.) the watch is authentic but has been repaired with incorrect parts
> 
> Without further adieu, some pictures (I apologize if they are of poor quality, these are directly from the seller)
> 
> View attachment 10908809
> View attachment 10908825
> View attachment 10908833


This watch is 100% fake.
For certain
adam


----------



## CJ_Sandman

Thank you, Adam. Do you mind sharing with me how you knew? I also believed the watch to be fake -- the tell was the lack of the Y-incabloc. Are you seeing other signs as well? I am brand new to Panerai so I got lucky and believe that I narrowly escaped what could have been a very bad situation.



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> This watch is 100% fake.
> For certain
> adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

CJ_Sandman said:


> Thank you, Adam. Do you mind sharing with me how you knew? I also believed the watch to be fake -- the tell was the lack of the Y-incabloc. Are you seeing other signs as well? I am brand new to Panerai so I got lucky and believe that I narrowly escaped what could have been a very bad situation.


Yes its fake both the incorrect shock protection and other issue as well


----------



## CJ_Sandman

Thanks, Adam. I agree, but do you mind telling me how you knew? For me, the shock protection looked suspicious.


----------



## DieSkim

Screws on swan neck. OP label looks like a sticker.


----------



## CJ_Sandman

Thank you both for your feedback. I want to give the seller the benefit of the doubt regarding whether or not he knew he had a fake on his hands. However, I just can't fathom that a retail jewelry shop that has been in business for 25 years would either be duped into buying a fake Panerai (that is so easily discovered with a few minutes of googling) or would try to sell a fake Panerai. Is this a common occurrence?

Another VERY interesting fold to the story -- yesterday, I sent the store owner an email (with pics) about why I was concerned and included an article I urged him to read..

Today, the sale posting has been taken down -- not sold -- but "temporarily out of stock! :think:


----------



## Tenags89

Is this pam510 real or fake? Came with full box and papers with all numbers matching and stamped by an Italian ad.


----------



## DieSkim

Seems OK, but this is just based on 2 photos.....


----------



## Tenags89

More photos


----------



## jcarney

what pam does anyone recommend and why pam321 or pam24 or pam88 please let me know thank you


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Tenags89 said:


> More photos


Watch is genuine
Adam


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



jcarney said:


> what pam does anyone recommend and why pam321 or pam24 or pam88 please let me know thank you


You need to buy all 3. Now lets move onto something slightly more relevant to the title of this thread pls.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## clyde2801

Sorry about the individual posting just now, whoops. Guy is trying to pay for services with this. Self employed construction owner. Would appreciate any advice.


----------



## korneevy

clyde2801 said:


> Sorry about the individual posting just now, whoops. Guy is trying to pay for services with this. Self employed construction owner. Would appreciate any advice.
> View attachment 11009338
> View attachment 11009354
> View attachment 11009378
> View attachment 11009386


Movement shot, papers and warranty docs.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## clyde2801

Solid case back, no papers and warranty docs.


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



clyde2801 said:


> Solid case back, no papers and warranty docs.


Do you want to get paid or do you want to get paid? Run

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

In my opinion - get cash, we can not tell from the photos its 50/50


----------



## clyde2801

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> In my opinion - get cash, we can not tell from the photos its 50/50


No wobble on crown guard lever nor blue tint in crystal reflection either, but okay. The only reason why I even considered it was google pulled up a thread where the same model was diagnosed as genuine after readers got some pics between the lugs.

Gosh, are the fakes getting that good? Thanks for the advice, guys.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



clyde2801 said:


> No wobble on crown guard lever nor blue tint in crystal reflection either, but okay. The only reason why I even considered it was google pulled up a thread where the same model was diagnosed as genuine after readers got some pics between the lugs.
> 
> Gosh, are the fakes getting that good? Thanks for the advice, guys.


They are good, and we can not see the movement.
Without handling it or a movement photo, not worth the risk.
a


----------



## clyde2801

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> They are good, and we can not see the movement.
> Without handling it or a movement photo, not worth the risk.
> a


movement pics


----------



## clyde2801

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Another movement picture.


----------



## clyde2801

And a third...


----------



## korneevy

clyde2801 said:


> View attachment 11030002
> 
> And a third...


All fake


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



clyde2801 said:


> Another movement picture.


FAKE
GUARANTEED FAKE


----------



## clyde2801

Back she goes, guy will have to come up with other arrangements. Thanks for the help, guys! Kind of a shame, I've really grown to like the style of the watch. I'm a beginning watch collector that buys second hand, but I think I may have to give this brand a pass due to all of the fakes and phonies out there. Even my go to local jewelers say they won't touch a Panerai due to this. Shame, really.


----------



## Hwest1013

That fake from Clyde2801 is scary good. The dial and engraving on the back all look legit. Goes to show that you can NEVER tell the authenticity of a watch without looking at the movement. I'd like to buy a 111 or 112 but feel like I would be rolling the dice if I did not 100% trust the seller. The state of Panerai fakes is a shame.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hwest1013 said:


> That fake from Clyde2801 is scary good. The dial and engraving on the back all look legit. Goes to show that you can NEVER tell the authenticity of a watch without looking at the movement. I'd like to buy a 111 or 112 but feel like I would be rolling the dice if I did not 100% trust the seller. The state of Panerai fakes is a shame.


As I explained I was suspect (50/50) but the movement signed its death warrant!


----------



## clyde2801

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> As I explained I was suspect (50/50) but the movement signed its death warrant!


The prevalence of almost indistinguishable fakes, along with a lack of local authentication options, is enough to scare me away from the brand. If they can almost replicate the watch and it's movement, what's stopping them from forging the documentation? Yeah, I can buy one directly from an AD, and have a luxury watch costing thousands of dollars that is suspect. Dang!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

clyde2801 said:


> The prevalence of almost indistinguishable fakes, along with a lack of local authentication options, is enough to scare me away from the brand. If they can almost replicate the watch and it's movement, what's stopping them from forging the documentation? Yeah, I can buy one directly from an AD, and have a luxury watch costing thousands of dollars that is suspect. Dang!


Nothing
PS - I used your photos for my course, I hope that is OK
adam


----------



## clyde2801

Be my guest, please. What kind of course is it, and how will it be available?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

BY PM


----------



## Dartmouthbrian

NOOB on the Panerai here.. I know Rolex & Omega, but spotted this one. I just don't know enough to make a judgement call. Help?  I only have the 3 pics.


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



Dartmouthbrian said:


> NOOB on the Panerai here.. I know Rolex & Omega, but spotted this one. I just don't know enough to make a judgement call. Help?  I only have the 3 pics.
> 
> View attachment 11041418
> View attachment 11041426
> View attachment 11041434


$150 is the going rate for these. Real deal costs about $12-15K and quite sought after limited edition.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Heinz

Yep; if you look close, you can see the engraved bridges are actually thin overlays over the plain bridges of an Asian movement.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

FAKE
A


----------



## Wlover

It's a course that nobody goes to if conducted by A. No point finding out. Read the earlier pages (between 80 to 110?) and the Rolex forum. This guy's been wrong too many times. Sorry...

You want authentication then go back to Richemont. Over here, advice should be taken as opinion only at best. No point buying based on opinion here and finding it's a fake later. A lesson is not worth thousands of $.



clyde2801 said:


> Be my guest, please. What kind of course is it, and how will it be available?


----------



## clyde2801

Wlover said:


> It's a course that nobody goes to if conducted by A. No point finding out. Read the earlier pages (between 80 to 110?) and the Rolex forum. This guy's been wrong too many times. Sorry...
> 
> You want authentication then go back to Richemont. Over here, advice should be taken as opinion only at best. No point buying based on opinion here and finding it's a fake later. A lesson is not worth thousands of $.


It's my understanding Richemont won't verify. Bummer. i'm eyeing over a 005, supposedly complete set with box & papers, but I'm almost too paranoid to pull the trigger after reading this thread.


----------



## korneevy

clyde2801 said:


> It's my understanding Richemont won't verify. Bummer. i'm eyeing over a 005, supposedly complete set with box & papers, but I'm almost too paranoid to pull the trigger after reading this thread.


Of course they will not authenticate - why bother if it does not bring any revenue and can end up in massive liability and potential lawsuits? I really don't know why/how anyone could be that ignorant as to buy a 5-10K watch unseen from a private person, often thousands of kilometres away in a foreign country (not a respected dealer) based on a couple of grainy photos... I almost think if one is that stupid, they deserve to be taken for a ride, survival of the fittest and all. I am also sure half of folks with zero posts writing here about all these fakes offered/granted/gifted/found by various relatives/friends/associates/employers know 100% what they've got, just trying to see whether it is THAT obvious so they won't get in a shameful situation while wearing one of those 200$ Chinese copies. Everyone wants a bargain but nobody THAT stupid to sell a 5K watch for a few 000$, there is a free search engine called Google that can give you a price history for pretty much any item in the world in 1 min.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## clyde2801

korneevy said:


> Of course they will not authenticate - why bother if it does not bring any revenue and can end up in massive liability and potential lawsuits? I really don't know why/how anyone could be that ignorant as to buy a 5-10K watch unseen from a private person, often thousands of kilometres away in a foreign country (not a respected dealer) based on a couple of grainy photos... I almost think if one is that stupid, they deserve to be taken for a ride, survival of the fittest and all. I am also sure half of folks with zero posts writing here about all these fakes offered/granted/gifted/found by various relatives/friends/associates/employers know 100% what they've got, just trying to see whether it is THAT obvious so they won't get in a shameful situation while wearing one of those 200$ Chinese copies. Everyone wants a bargain but nobody THAT stupid to sell a 5K watch for a few 000$, there is a free search engine called Google that can give you a price history for pretty much any item in the world in 1 min.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Took the liberty of highlighting the only real reason they don't. Also took the liberty to do some quick online research to see if Panerai or Richmond got sued over verification issues, couldn't find anything. Zero, zip. Occasionally, they'll go after another maker for making a model they deem is too close to theirs, so it doesn't look like they're afraid to lawyer up.

Panerai-Richemont-appears to be all about new sales to the exclusion of all else. If you buy from them and happen to misplace the box and papers one could argue that the value of your watch is greatly diminished if not destroyed. And forget about the straw man example of buying a $200 watch in an alley, no one has any protection buying any used watch without some kind of a valid verification process. Without it, any fraudster can sell a replica for what appears to be a price for a genuine article; what good is PayPal protection if you can't back up a dispute over authenticity? Might as well forget about trying to get a nice vintage piece for that matter.

Poor, poor silly little Rolex, actually taking the time to verify pieces and risk MASSIVE liability and potential lawsuits! With a thriving secondary market and their used examples holding and gaining value, their poor AD's have to occasionally discount examples that aren't selling too well, unlike Richemont and Panerai. Pathetic suckers actually care about their brand and even their secondary customers; I guess that's why they're not doing that well.


----------



## _diplomat_

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



clyde2801 said:


> Took the liberty of highlighting the only real reason they don't. Also took the liberty to do some quick online research to see if Panerai or Richmond got sued over verification issues, couldn't find anything. Zero, zip. Occasionally, they'll go after another maker for making a model they deem is too close to theirs, so it doesn't look like they're afraid to lawyer up.
> 
> Panerai-Richemont-appears to be all about new sales to the exclusion of all else. If you buy from them and happen to misplace the box and papers one could argue that the value of your watch is greatly diminished if not destroyed. And forget about the straw man example of buying a $200 watch in an alley, no one has any protection buying any used watch without some kind of a valid verification process. Without it, any fraudster can sell a replica for what appears to be a price for a genuine article; what good is PayPal protection if you can't back up a dispute over authenticity? Might as well forget about trying to get a nice vintage piece for that matter.
> 
> Poor, poor silly little Rolex, actually taking the time to verify pieces and risk MASSIVE liability and potential lawsuits! With a thriving secondary market and their used examples holding and gaining value, their poor AD's have to occasionally discount examples that aren't selling too well, unlike Richemont and Panerai. Pathetic suckers actually care about their brand and even their secondary customers; I guess that's why they're not doing that well.


I am not saying that Panerai is doing the right thing by its customers - I am actually of the opinion that they don't, and in light of a huge number of increasingly good fakes, they should be steeping in and giving their second hand customers a piece of mind with robust verification, archive extracts etc. but the fact of the matter is that they DONT and unlikely to do it in the future. SWATCH or Patek or Rolex will do the opposite, but it's of no matter if you like to buy a Panerai. So the only option is either buy overpriced and relatively poor value brand new from an AD and sleep well knowing your piece is genuine, or learn,learn, learn before buying on secondary market or private sale. That's all. Fact of life, and all these posts asking "experts" to authenticate off some iPhone photos are a waste of keyboard time. Plain and simple.


----------



## clyde2801

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



korneevy said:


> I am not saying that Panerai is doing the right thing by its customers - I am actually of the opinion that they don't, and in light of a huge number of increasingly good fakes, they should be steeping in and giving their second hand customers a piece of mind with robust verification, archive extracts etc. but the fact of the matter is that they DONT and unlikely to do it in the future. SWATCH or Patek or Rolex will do the opposite, but it's of no matter if you like to buy a Panerai. So the only option is either buy overpriced and relatively poor value brand new from an AD and sleep well knowing your piece is genuine, or learn,learn, learn before buying on secondary market or private sale. That's all. Fact of life, and all these posts asking "experts" to authenticate off some iPhone photos are a waste of keyboard time. Plain and simple.


Okay, sounds like we're pretty much in agreement. Just wish the resources to learn weren't scattered throughout a thousand posts in a hundred threads in dozens of websites.


----------



## T1meout

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



clyde2801 said:


> Okay, sounds like we're pretty much in agreement. Just wish the resources to learn weren't scattered throughout a thousand posts in a hundred threads in dozens of websites.


Sounds like a nice opportunity for you to bundle all the information into a single comprehensive compendium right here on the forum. I'm sure he mods will make a sticky out of it after all the trouble you went through to collect and categorize all of that data.

Actually there is a way to have a Panerai authenticated. Just send it in for service. Panerai Service Center would be happy to confirm its authenticity. At a price of course.


----------



## atothej81

Hey guys, is this PAM 061 I just bought legit?















Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



atothej81 said:


> Hey guys, is this PAM 061 I just bought legit?
> View attachment 11073706
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


As I said elsewhere, this is a fake.

Here is how the Swiss incabloc should look like on a genuine Unitas movement used by Panerai - note the "y-shaped" opening here, and compare with o-shaped stock anti-shock system used in Asian copies, such as your watch...










Doing your own research can not be substituted by asking "expert" opinions post factum.

PS: and the above is NOT a guarantee of having a genuine Panerai, btw. There are fakes that address that by installing a Swiss part and making it visually identical to Swiss movement. In that case, one has to look at ETA and Panerai reference engravings under the balance wheel, check brushing of wheels and look at winding gears shape etc. none is rocket science - use Google and your brain if you are after a "great deal on eBay".


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



korneevy said:


> As I said elsewhere, this is a fake.
> 
> Here is how the Swiss incabloc should look like on a genuine Unitas movement used by Panerai - note the "y-shaped" opening here, and compare with o-shaped stock anti-shock system used in Asian copies, such as your watch...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doing your own research can not be substituted by asking "expert" opinions post factum.
> 
> PS: and the above is NOT a guarantee of having a genuine Panerai, btw. There are fakes that address that by installing a Swiss part and making it visually identical to Swiss movement. In that case, one has to look at ETA and Panerai reference engravings under the balance wheel, check brushing of wheels and look at winding gears shape etc. none is rocket science - use Google and your brain if you are after a "great deal on eBay".


The OPs model a PAM 061 does NOT use a movement with a Swan Neck, it uses the ETA 6497/2 movement, seen here
https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...UICCgB&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=UxdB-dbPpmFjQM:


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

atothej81 said:


> Hey guys, is this PAM 061 I just bought legit?
> View attachment 11073706
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Sorry FAKE
Movement shoud be an ETA6497/2

You can see a correct one here:
https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...UICCgB&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=UxdB-dbPpmFjQM:

https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...UICCgB&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=N6oUjlVWPvBJgM:


----------



## atothej81

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> The OPs model a PAM 061 does NOT use a movement with a Swan Neck, it uses the ETA 6497/2 movement, seen here
> https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...UICCgB&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=UxdB-dbPpmFjQM:


What does that mean? Still looks off.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



atothej81 said:


> What does that mean? Still looks off.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


As explained above - it is 100% fake
But not for the reason you claimed!

https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...UICCgB&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=N6oUjlVWPvBJgM:

Adam


----------



## atothej81

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> As explained above - it is 100% fake
> But not for the reason stated
> 
> Adam


OK I really appreciate your insight without the passive aggressive comments unlike others.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



atothej81 said:


> OK I really appreciate your insight without the passive aggressive comments unlike others.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Thanks, appreciate your comment.

Sad, Fact is watch is fake!


----------



## Maddog1970

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Guys

a quick thank you to the community for helping me into Panerai.

i have learnt many things just reading the threads:

- buy the seller.
- in person if possible.
- avoid sketchy countries.....Russia anyone? Anything ending in "Stan"!
- get all boxes, papers, receipts etc
- um, if it's to good to be true, then....well you know!
- there truly is no such thing as a 'deal' for Panerai's.
- most "is it real?" posts seem to come from WUSers with less than 10 posts!...go figure!
- - if it feels wrong, walk away!
- a confident seller, with the real product, will 100% accommodate your request for whatever pics/info you request.
- if buying off eBay, use PayPal and your credit card!...2 levels of protection.
- and last, but not least, enjoy your 1st Panerai and immediately start saving for your next one!....trust me, one is never enough!

thanks again!


----------



## DieSkim

Let's be clear, this Pam61 is a very good replica, still FAKE .. check the replica made by 'hmaker' (I think that's what it's called) and you will find some dead giveaways


----------



## Time In

......I began reading this thread because I love knowledge. Plus...I try to learn at least 1 new thing a day. What I took away from the last 10 pages or so is this....don't believe anyone...even WIS/WUS people re:fakes. Even though we "usually" rely on each other for help and info....authenticity really can't be judged by pictures. Hands on... possible dismantling...and expert knowledge is required many times to determine a fake. Common sense...investigating...Google...just to get you in the game before making a decision on a used watch ....must educate yourself (duh). Lastly....why even bother to respond to such threads...let alone anything requesting "authenticity" . I thank all for the education today...I met my minimum daily obligation. I probably won't access threads like this again. Seems futile. Peace all !!!


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> The OPs model a PAM 061 does NOT use a movement with a Swan Neck, it uses the ETA 6497/2 movement, seen here
> https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...UICCgB&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=UxdB-dbPpmFjQM:


I wasn't talking about swan neck - only incabloc, which is what the photos show in detail. Swan neck or not is really irrelevant as long as the incabloc is incorrect, who cares? Panerai may or may have most used the swan neck movements in this model (I couldn't bother doing this research), but they sure as hell never used a Chinese shock protector on any of their movements ever, that's guaranteed...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



korneevy said:


> I wasn't talking about swan neck - only incabloc, which is what the photos show in detail. Swan neck or not is really irrelevant as long as the incabloc is incorrect, who cares? Panerai may or may have most used the swan neck movements in this model (I couldn't bother doing this research), but they sure as hell never used a Chinese shock protector on any of their movements ever, that's guaranteed...


Swan neck is very relevant.
Fact is you pointed the OP as counterfeit based on the wrong movement:


> Here is how the Swiss incabloc should look like on a genuine Unitas movement used by Panera


Movement in his watch is ETA and not using in this case the Unitas, and ETA do not all use incabloc!

Adam


----------



## korneevy

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Swan neck is very relevant.
> Fact is you pointed the OP as counterfeit based on the wrong movement:
> 
> Movement in his watch is ETA and not using in this case the Unitas, and ETA do not all use incabloc!
> 
> Adam


Yawn... not worth the time proving anything here, really. I don't care what movement version they use, as long as the key part of it is fake, rest is of no interest. Anyway, I am no expert by any degree of imagination, no one is, as Long as they work off iphone photos

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wlover

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

just ignore A. Read his signature...


----------



## Jameson6

Hi, I need some help telling whether this one is fake or not, I will.be buying if it checks out, any help would be much appreciated. It's a pam00111. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Mason Delpino

Swapped the strap on this at my work a few days ago, and I've been wondering if it was real ever since. Either way, I took a bunch of pictures, so I'd appreciate if someone could tell me if it was real. I also changed the battery on a Chopard Happy Sport Ladies watch, so that was pretty cool.

Pam by Mason_Delpino | Photobucket


----------



## korneevy

Mason Delpino said:


> Swapped the strap on this at my work a few days ago, and I've been wondering if it was real ever since. Either way, I took a bunch of pictures, so I'd appreciate if someone could tell me if it was real. I also changed the battery on a Chopard Happy Sport Ladie's watch, so that was pretty cool.
> 
> Pam by Mason_Delpino | Photobucket


Yes is a real watch (as in device that shows passing of time). No, it has nothing to do with a timepiece manufacturer called "Panerai", but then you prob already knew it.


----------



## Mason Delpino

korneevy said:


> Yes is a real watch (as in device that shows passing of time). No, it has nothing to do with a timepiece manufacturer called "Panerai", but then you prob already knew it.


 Did not actually know that, as I really don't know much about Panerai. But that explains why the guy came into the watch store I work at to get a new strap (for $25) as opposed to ordering a nice strap online. I had my doubts as to its authenticity, so that's why I asked here. Kinda disappointing, as I thought I had handled a real Panerai. Some things on it seemed like they should be there (like screw-in spring bars and buckle pin), but my doubts came from the fact that the guy came in and bought a Hadley Roma strap that we had to basically mutilate in order to fit the Pam buckle on. But I assume the movement on a real one would be much more decorated and well-done, rather than the cheap-looking one shown there. Thanks for confirming though.


----------



## Mason Delpino

Thanks for overestimating my knowledge of watches, though  I love automatics but can't really get obsessed about them just yet as I'm in college (hopefully when I'm out of college, working full-time can sustain my watch addiction and I will be able to afford some decent automatics, but for now it's mainly quartz for me due to monetary constraints).


----------



## T1meout

I f I had a dime for every time someone posted a genuine PAM in this thread I would be dirt poor.


----------



## korneevy

T1meout said:


> I f I had a dime for every time someone posted a genuine PAM in this thread I would be dirt poor.


Haha... exactly my point. 99% of these watches are guaranteed fakes, without even looking at pictures, just read the same old "great deal on eBay, nice gift form mysterious stranger, my wife found it, my uncle gave it etc etc etc).


----------



## clyde2801

Okay, second try. Ebay, complete box and papers, strap, tool PLUS invoice and receipt from AD. Production in 2013, sales receipt from early 2014. Am I right in thinking the invoice and receipt are good indicators of authenticity?

Also, watch has a couple of minor scars in bezel at 6. I'm also thinking this is a good sign the watch has actually been worn in the wild rather than a possibly pristine fake. 

Thanks in advance for the advice.


----------



## korneevy

clyde2801 said:


> Okay, second try. Ebay, complete box and papers, strap, tool PLUS invoice and receipt from AD. Production in 2013, sales receipt from early 2014. Am I right in thinking the invoice and receipt are good indicators of authenticity?
> 
> Also, watch has a couple of minor scars in bezel at 6. I'm also thinking this is a good sign the watch has actually been worn in the wild rather than a possibly pristine fake.
> 
> Thanks in advance for the advice.


get the movement shot. Confirm numbers are matching.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Does NOT look correct to me.
Do not proceed without movement photo is my opinion

PS - many fakes have been worn in the wild, indeed most get worn!
A


----------



## clyde2801

Dammit to Hell, I already pulled the trigger on Saturday. When it gets here tomorrow, I'll take pics and compare it to a authentic 6497 movement on a dievas. Having heard 'box and papers, box and papers, box and papers' for so long, i figured with all that AND a receipt AND an invoice, I'd be golden. Was listed as authentic, so at least hopefully I'll have flea-bay/pay-pal protection if it's not.

Well, FRAK me runnin'


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

clyde2801 said:


> Dammit to Hell, I already pulled the trigger on Saturday. When it gets here tomorrow, I'll take pics and compare it to a authentic 6497 movement on a dievas. Having heard 'box and papers, box and papers, box and papers' for so long, i figured with all that AND a receipt AND an invoice, I'd be golden. Was listed as authentic, so at least hopefully I'll have flea-bay/pay-pal protection if it's not.
> 
> Well, FRAK me runnin'


You "may" be OK, but lets see


----------



## SeikoLover4444

Hi all. I just wanted a cool an unique strap for my Seiko. I ordered this online and should get it soon. I do not know what a Panerai is nor do I have any experience as to why or how? Can someone please point me to what is up with these bands or explain them to me? I know this one is not a real one do to the price alone, but does anyone have any experience with one of these knockoffs? They are all leather right, so is the difference just craftsmanship and quality? Thanks! - SeikoLover It will not let me post a link  It is a green racing strap with "thik" leather. I'e it has the little holes cut out of it.


----------



## korneevy

SeikoLover4444 said:


> Hi all. I just wanted a cool an unique strap for my Seiko. I ordered this online and should get it soon. I do not know what a Panerai is nor do I have any experience as to why or how? Can someone please point me to what is up with these bands or explain them to me? I know this one is not a real one do to the price alone, but does anyone have any experience with one of these knockoffs? They are all leather right, so is the difference just craftsmanship and quality? Thanks! - SeikoLover It will not let me post a link  It is a green racing strap with "thik" leather. I'e it has the little holes cut out of it.


This is the post of the year, so far. Keep it up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## clyde2801

Invoice paid off. Manager at AD took my call and confirmed that a Pam 000 with the same serial and OP number was sold by them to my eBay seller (by name) on the date listed on the invoice, and for the price listed on the invoice. 

Unless a nasty surprise shows up tomorrow, I think I'm good, guys! WHEW!!!!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

clyde2801 said:


> Invoice paid off. Manager at AD took my call and confirmed that a Pam 000 with the same serial and OP number was sold by them to my eBay seller (by name) on the date listed on the invoice, and for the price listed on the invoice. Unless a nasty surprise shows up tomorrow, I think I'm good, guys! WHEW!!!!


Sounds good


----------



## clyde2801

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Sounds good


NO KIDDING! I'm really surprised they did that! And my seller was continuing to keep in contact after the sale; I would think a scammer would have dropped off by now. As long as the numbers of watch, and etc match, the ONLY way it could not be legit is for the seller to screw a legit case back onto a replica, and what would even be the point of that? OR, the guy could have bought the original watch, then had dups made with the same OP, BB and production number. But I think either of those is fairly unlikely, especially since I'm getting the original receipt and invoice.

The only think that could be better would be taking it into NYC myself and throwing it onto the counter, but...nah. I was really getting nervous, having only bought it for $2950.....


----------



## SeikoLover4444

korneevy said:


> This is the post of the year, so far. Keep it up.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I googled it and now realize why my post was funny. Sorry, no disrespect meant to anyone who can afford to appreciate such a watch! Take care all.


----------



## clyde2801

Watch came in, serial number matches documents in box including warranty card, AD invoice and receipt. Lovely, lovely piece. It appears the retaining pin for the crown lever is the right length, but slightly off center; it looks like it was pressed up a bit from the bottom: it's a bit recessed in the bottom and sticks up a bit at the top. As stated before, AD manager verified the sale, date of sale, type of watch, serial number and name of buyer after looking it up in his system.

Have to admit the presentation really puts Rolex to shame.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

clyde2801 said:


> Watch came in, serial number matches documents in box including warranty card, AD invoice and receipt. Lovely, lovely piece. It appears the retaining pin for the crown lever is the right length, but slightly off center; it looks like it was pressed up a bit from the bottom: it's a bit recessed in the bottom and sticks up a bit at the top. As stated before, AD manager verified the sale, date of sale, type of watch, serial number and name of buyer after looking it up in his system.


Happy to hear it
A


----------



## clyde2801

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Happy to hear it
> A


Thanks. AD manager did say that he was only verifying the original purchase...wonder if it has something to do with Panerai/Richemont not verifying authenticity of pieces and he was engaging in some CYA.

Also, do you think I should take it to a jeweler or watch smith and have the pin centered, or is it not worth it? Thanks.

BTW, watch winds like butter, if you understand what I'm saying.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

clyde2801 said:


> Thanks. AD manager did say that he was only verifying the original purchase...wonder if it has something to do with Panerai/Richemont not verifying authenticity of pieces and he was engaging in some CYA.
> 
> Also, do you think I should take it to a jeweler or watch smith and have the pin centered, or is it not worth it? Thanks.
> 
> BTW, watch winds like butter, if you understand what I'm saying.


If watch is brand new or under warranty, I would take it to the AD.
I never saw a brand new Panerai with that pin not flush

a


----------



## clyde2801

I think it's out of warranty, watch was bought in March of 2014.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

clyde2801 said:


> I think it's out of warranty, watch was bought in March of 2014.


2years.
I did not know, but a simple google search you can find it


----------



## clyde2801

Thanks, will do. Much obliged!


----------



## clyde2801

Took watch today to my favorite graybeard, Clifton's Watch Hospital, to adjust the lever pin. While he was there, I had him screw the back off to snap a pic and he adjusted the watch as it was seven seconds fast per day. Called his wife over to look at it, as they're normally flooded with fakes, he wanted her to see a real base logo. They were delighted to look at the watch, and charged me....five bucks!

Man, gotta love the photography of the iPhone 7+...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hi Clyde
What model is it PAM or OP??


----------



## clyde2801

PAM Zero.


----------



## Mar_

I finally took the plunge and after much lurking decided to purchase a 111. Im quite excited and am just wondering if anyone can confirm authenticity via some pictures that were sent. Its a 2015 and has Panerai warranty until 12-2017 https: //imgur.com/a/VK8WA

Looking forward to getting some awesome straps!


----------



## concealed

Does anyone think this is a fake?

282377495955

Candidly, I sold this item and the buyer is claiming it is fake. He took it to get the crystal buffed at a mall store in his local country who claimed its not original...282377495955


----------



## T1meout

concealed said:


> Does anyone think this is a fake?
> 
> 282377495955
> 
> Candidly, I sold this item and the buyer is claiming it is fake. He took it to get the crystal buffed at a mall store in his local country who claimed its not original...282377495955


Is there room for doubt?
It's your watch. If anyone should know, it should be you.
By the way, the posted link doesn't work.


----------



## T1meout

Mar_ said:


> I finally took the plunge and after much lurking decided to purchase a 111. Im quite excited and am just wondering if anyone can confirm authenticity via some pictures that were sent. Its a 2015 and has Panerai warranty until 12-2017 https:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/VK8WA
> 
> 
> Looking forward to getting some awesome straps!


What's the point. You allready bought it. You should have asked before you pulled the trigger. Either post a link or upload the pictures here in this thread, or else people won't bother.


----------



## concealed

its a ebay item number as i dont have enough posts to post links directly, if you open up in eBay then paste that number it should pop up!


----------



## Mar_

T1meout said:


> What's the point. You allready bought it. You should have asked before you pulled the trigger. Either post a link or upload the pictures here in this thread, or else people won't bother.


I hadnt purchased yet, i had made the decision to purchase. And i did post a link to an album containing pictures. I wasnt able to put any links in my post so had to separate the URL in my previous post.


----------



## Mar_

T1meout said:


> What's the point. You allready bought it. You should have asked before you pulled the trigger. Either post a link or upload the pictures here in this thread, or else people won't bother.


http:


http://imgur.com/VK8WA


----------



## WiZARD7

Hi All,

I'm planning to buy a pam112, I've got these pictures from the seller. (No box, no papers, price is ok - not too low or high)
(I'd meet him, at local AD/service, but if you find any issues based on pictures, I won't waste my time with him)

So what do you think of this?

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Thanks


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

WiZARD7 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm planning to buy a pam112, I've got these pictures from the seller. (No box, no papers, price is ok - not too low or high)
> (I'd meet him, at local AD/service, but if you find any issues based on pictures, I won't waste my time with him)
> 
> So what do you think of this?
> 
> Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
> Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
> Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
> Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
> 
> Thanks


From those photos, I am 99% certain its genuine.
A better closer photo of the movement would help that last 1%

A


----------



## Synequano

The 112 movt looks legit from the blurred photo however the deployant isn't a correct accessory for 112...112 usually comes with buckle (I believe J series should have pre V),while the deployant clasps usually come with watches from contemporary line ups with ETA movt (24,25,90,92,104,123,164 et al)


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Synequano said:


> The 112 movt looks legit from the blurred photo however the deployant isn't a correct accessory for 112...112 usually comes with buckle (I believe J series should have pre V),while the deployant clasps usually come with watches from contemporary line ups with ETA movt (24,25,90,92,104,123,164 et al)


I am not claiming to be so knowledgeable on Panerai bracelets but Some models of Luminor include a Deployant, particularly newer models.
The Pam 112 surely did/does.
A


----------



## dbae4

Hi I'm trying to get some advice on a Panerai purchase, its a pam210, OP6623, specifically a k-series. I did some research on the forum regarding spotting a fake, particularly the y-shaped incabloc and the shape of the swan neck regulator. Is there anything else to look for? The seller has double boxes including the stickers and warranty card with the serial number on it. Just wanting some verification before making the plunge. Thanks in advance.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

dbae4 said:


> Hi I'm trying to get some advice on a Panerai purchase, its a pam210, OP6623, specifically a k-series. I did some research on the forum regarding spotting a fake, particularly the y-shaped incabloc and the shape of the swan neck regulator. Is there anything else to look for? The seller has double boxes including the stickers and warranty card with the serial number on it. Just wanting some verification before making the plunge. Thanks in advance.
> View attachment 11528410
> View attachment 11528418
> View attachment 11528426


From those movent photos, I still think fake.
Need closer / better photos of Swan Neck.

Act with caution
adam


----------



## dbae4

I see, thank you for your expertise


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

dbae4 said:


> I see, thank you for your expertise


No problem, please get cleat photos of that complete Swan Neck.
Incabloc is for certain important, but many counterfeiters do use an original ETA (Unitas) movement, rather than the Seagull

A


----------



## dbae4

Unfortunately the watch sold. Even with matching documentation (ie: warranty card and stickers, and outer box which corresponds to the serial number on the watch) would you be worried of the authenticity? Thanks again for the good insight!


----------



## WiZARD7

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> From those movent photos, I still think fake.
> Need closer / better photos of Swan Neck.


Thanks for your advice on my question.

Can you help me why do you think the watch posted by dbae4 is fake? As I have only the blurry picture, and I'd like to know, what to check/look, and they have the same movement...


----------



## Ausman600

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Hi guys, someone has offered me this Pam 111 in a trade deal and just wanting some ideas about it's authenticity?

































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I need better clear photos of movement. Balance wheel and Panerai writing.
BUT
From what I can (poorly) see - it looks fake based on movement, but genuine based on dial side
adam


----------



## jawshoe

Hi all, could you help me out with this one? I can't seem to even figure out what model this is


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Its a PAM 360 and should use the Unitas (ETA) 6497 movement


----------



## korneevy

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Its a PAM 360 and should use the Unitas (ETA) 6497 movement


*No it is not PAM 360*, c'mon mate...that much you should really know if you are offering advise to people on the interwebs. This is PAM 360; what the OP was asking about, looks like a confused mishmash of random (fake) parts...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

korneevy said:


> *No it is not PAM 360*, c'mon mate...that much you should really know if you are offering advise to people on the interwebs. This is PAM 360; what the OP was asking about, looks like a confused mishmash of random (fake) parts...
> 
> View attachment 11567714


The OP asked"?
"I can't seem to even figure out what model this is"

I responded that this (OP6812) is a PAM 360 using a UNITAS 6497 movement - that I believe correct!

I never passed any opinion on its authenticity, nor do I now. I was just giving the OP the PAM number so he could research it, as I believed he wanted to do.


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> The OP asked"?
> "I can't seem to even figure out what model this is"
> 
> I responded that this (OP6812) is a PAM 360 using a UNITAS 6497 movement - that I believe correct!
> 
> I never passed any opinion on its authenticity, nor do I now. I was just giving the OP the PAM number so he could research it, as I believed he wanted to do.


I am so lost, we prob leave on different planets as you logic is just plain weird. Someone asks for a model number of what is clearly a cheap replica, which does not even exist in Panerai catalog. What has it got to do with ETA 6497 exactly? Have you seen the photo of its dial? Did you notice it says "8 days"? Do you know if any 6497 with an 8 day power reserve? Wow. Moving on... you saw the (overpolished) SS case on that fake, right? You do know that PAM360 is DLC-covered and BLACK, right? Again, what these two watches have in common exactly? Caseback? OK, that's the only thing that (kind of - if you ignore incorrect fonts, profile etc.) is common between this fake and genuine 360, but if EVERYTHING is wrong on the fake, why would you want to even mention the 360, ETA and all that, exactly? Just say "no such thing exists" and leave it be, instead of confusing people further with "additional research". Anyways, hope the OP finds you advise useful, over and out.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



korneevy said:


> I am so lost, we prob leave on different planets as you logic is just plain weird. Someone asks for a model number of what is clearly a cheap replica, which does not even exist in Panerai catalog. What has it got to do with ETA 6497 exactly? Have you seen the photo of its dial? Did you notice it says "8 days"? Do you know if any 6497 with an 8 day power reserve? Wow. Moving on... you saw the (overpolished) SS case on that fake, right? You do know that PAM360 is DLC-covered and BLACK, right? Again, what these two watches have in common exactly? Caseback? OK, that's the only thing that (kind of - if you ignore incorrect fonts, profile etc.) is common between this fake and genuine 360, but if EVERYTHING is wrong on the fake, why would you want to even mention the 360, ETA and all that, exactly? Just say "no such thing exists" and leave it be, instead of confusing people further with "additional research". Anyways, hope the OP finds you advise useful, over and out.


Ah- OK
I understand your point now.
To be honest, I never studied the watch at all, hence NO comment on its authenticity or not.
I just converted the Op number on case back to a PAM number.

The rest as you say is correct.
A


----------



## Ausman600

Hi guys, does the swan neck mount look right on tho 111 movement?









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Ausman600 said:


> Hi guys, does the swan neck mount look right on tho 111 movement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope!
Fake!


----------



## mnemonic

Hi!
First post, and first Panerai for me. I'm looking to buy a PAM176/OP6725. The seller has no box or papers, but are willing to let it go for 2900 USD. Any thoughts on authenticity or price? Thank you immensly in advance for your guidance.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

mnemonic said:


> Hi!
> First post, and first Panerai for me. I'm looking to buy a PAM176/OP6725. The seller has no box or papers, but are willing to let it go for 2900 USD. Any thoughts on authenticity or price? Thank you immensly in advance for your guidance.
> 
> View attachment 11577138
> 
> View attachment 11577146


Dial side looks OK
Movement side needs clearer photos of balance wheel area and Swan Neck, but from what I can see looks genuine
adam
a


----------



## Exdeath

Hi guys,

Planning to deal with a seller flying in from overseas for a PAM 368 full set. Can I get a second opinion? He's sent me some pictures - the movement looks like everything's correct, just that the only thing I'm worried about is that the screw hole between the 'TWENTY' and 'THREE' on the movement plate looks like it's empty compared to other pictures of 368s I've seen online.

This is his:















Compare to online pics:















It could just be that the lighting is bad, though. Am I being overcautious? Seems like this wouldn't be a popular PAM to fake anyway given that it has the display back and seconds-reset mechanism, though...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Its genuine
I think the hole is to allow access to a screw below.
All looks good to me.
Its "impossible" to fake to that quality of a propriety movement, and yours has ALL the correct points
Here is a genuine
http://www.wristwatchphoto.com/2010/02/new-8-days-radiomir-panerai-346.html
A


----------



## NortheastJasper

evening guys hope you can help ...

looking for guidance on this before I take the jump ..



























pam359 2016

watch is been sold with box/papers but no receipt

thanks in advance !


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

NortheastJasper said:


> evening guys hope you can help ...
> 
> looking for guidance on this before I take the jump ..
> 
> View attachment 11605298
> View attachment 11605314
> View attachment 11605322
> View attachment 11605330
> 
> 
> pam359 2016
> 
> watch is been sold with box/papers but no receipt
> 
> thanks in advance !


Can not 100% confirm from that photo.
Need to see the complete balance wheel AND Escape wheel. But from what I can see looks WRONG!

I would not "jump" yet
adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I can add to above
Its FAKE
Adam


----------



## NortheastJasper

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I can add to above
> Its FAKE
> Adam


for sure Adam ? .. what's the telling sign so I can avoid in the future


----------



## ridley

Exdeath said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Planning to deal with a seller flying in from overseas for a PAM 368 full set. Can I get a second opinion? He's sent me some pictures - the movement looks like everything's correct, just that the only thing I'm worried about is that the screw hole between the 'TWENTY' and 'THREE' on the movement plate looks like it's empty compared to other pictures of 368s I've seen online.
> 
> This is his:
> 
> View attachment 11578770
> View attachment 11578778
> 
> 
> Compare to online pics:
> 
> View attachment 11578794
> View attachment 11578802
> 
> 
> It could just be that the lighting is bad, though. Am I being overcautious? Seems like this wouldn't be a popular PAM to fake anyway given that it has the display back and seconds-reset mechanism, though...


If you look close to wear it says Titinium you will see that the part that is missing is loose & has lodged itself there. I think the part is one of the movement retaining plates & screw.


----------



## NortheastJasper

Few better images if they helps


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

NortheastJasper said:


> for sure Adam ? ..


For sure


----------



## NortheastJasper

Thanks Adam looks like I have dodged a bullet there . unfortunately looks like someone else may be taken in !!

https://www.avforums.com/threads/panerai-luminor-marina-watch.2096813/


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

NortheastJasper said:


> Thanks Adam looks like I have dodged a bullet there . unfortunately looks like someone else may be taken in !!
> 
> https://www.avforums.com/threads/panerai-luminor-marina-watch.2096813/


Pleasure.
I can 100% guarantee its fake
Adam


----------



## gto05z

hi guys i am looking at getting my first Panerai and was wondering if the watches on this website are real or fake ? The site is sales-styles.com
Many thanks


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

gto05z said:


> hi guys i am looking at getting my first Panerai and was wondering if the watches on this website are real or fake ? The site is sales-styles.com
> Many thanks










Our website is shut down due to operating losses and other internal reasons, and only accepts order feedback for now. 
If you are unsatisfied with our products or services, or have any questions about your orders, please feel free to contact us.​


----------



## gto05z

hmmm it allows me to place an item in my cart


----------



## MrButterman

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Pleasure.
> I can 100% guarantee its fake
> Adam


Adam, for the sake of our communal education, do you care to share the tells on this one?


----------



## gruenburger

MrButterman said:


> Adam, for the sake of our communal education, do you care to share the tells on this one?


fake incabloc


----------



## gruenburger

MrButterman said:


> Adam, for the sake of our communal education, do you care to share the tells on this one?


fake incabloc


----------



## mnemonic

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Dial side looks OK
> Movement side needs clearer photos of balance wheel area and Swan Neck, but from what I can see looks genuine
> adam
> a


I bought the watch, or rather, the seller. Got the "good feeling", and the movement seemed "presicion made". Here is a picture of the balance and swan neck, close up. Hoping it's real! Also, was the price fair? No box or papers, 2900 USD.


----------



## MrButterman

gruenburger said:


> fake incabloc
> 
> View attachment 11620338


Thanks for the clarification. I even knew of this issue on the ETA based movements but, didn't look closely enough on this one. Once I did, there are clearly other issues as well. newbie oversight .....


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

mnemonic said:


> I bought the watch, or rather, the seller. Got the "good feeling", and the movement seemed "presicion made". Here is a picture of the balance and swan neck, close up. Hoping it's real! Also, was the price fair? No box or papers, 2900 USD.
> View attachment 11621938


This GENUINE
ENJOY
adam


----------



## WiZARD7

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> From those photos, I am 99% certain its genuine.
> A better closer photo of the movement would help that last 1%
> 
> A


Here is the close-up.


----------



## Adam Selene

That fake posted a few posts back, #1554 by NortheastJasper, is on ebay now - same serial number, etc. 
I must say I have become very disillusioned over the number of fakes out there. I've come to the conclusion that the risk is too high to buy a Panerai second hand. I've had my heart set on a Panerai for some time but it seems everything on ebay has something suspicious about it. I almost fell for this one but the papers and the movement didnt quite look right and then I was shocked to see the very watch listed in this thread. This is my first post. I've been reading this forum for some time learning how to identify a fake. I've learned a lot so I thank you people for the service you provide.

AS


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Adam Selene said:


> That fake posted a few posts back, #1554 by NortheastJasper, is on ebay now - same serial number, etc.
> I must say I have become very disillusioned over the number of fakes out there. I've come to the conclusion that the risk is too high to buy a Panerai second hand. I've had my heart set on a Panerai for some time but it seems everything on ebay has something suspicious about it. I almost fell for this one but the papers and the movement didnt quite look right and then I was shocked to see the very watch listed in this thread. This is my first post. I've been reading this forum for some time learning how to identify a fake. I've learned a lot so I thank you people for the service you provide.
> 
> AS


Hi Adam
Please give me a link to the fake on eBay, I can get it removed.

You can PM me ii if you prefer
A


----------



## Adam Selene

Since I am a newbie it wont let me post a link. Ill PM you.
AS


----------



## LB Carl

Adam Selene said:


> That fake posted a few posts back, #1554 by NortheastJasper, is on ebay now - same serial number, etc.
> I must say I have become very disillusioned over the number of fakes out there. I've come to the conclusion that the risk is too high to buy a Panerai second hand. I've had my heart set on a Panerai for some time but it seems everything on ebay has something suspicious about it. I almost fell for this one but the papers and the movement didnt quite look right and then I was shocked to see the very watch listed in this thread. This is my first post. I've been reading this forum for some time learning how to identify a fake. I've learned a lot so I thank you people for the service you provide.


As someone who only got his first Panerai recently, I felt the exact same way and decided to go to an AD. Though I would stay away from eBay generally, there are some reputable second hand sellers, such as David SW, who have long standing solid reputations and many happy customers. I don't know David SW and haven't dealt with him personally, so I'm not vouching for or plugging him in any way....just putting it out there that some reputable second hand sellers do exist.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Adam Selene said:


> Since I am a newbie it wont let me post a link. Ill PM you.
> AS


Got it - thanks - reportted
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Luminor-Marina-P9000-PAM359-44mm-NEW-/152523118892?hash=item238316192c:g:kLUAAOSwXYtYyt4 u

A


----------



## Adam Selene

LB Carl said:


> As someone who only got his first Panerai recently, I felt the exact same way and decided to go to an AD. Though I would stay away from eBay generally, there are some reputable second hand sellers, such as David SW, who have long standing solid reputations and many happy customers. I don't know David SW and haven't dealt with him personally, so I'm not vouching for or plugging him in any way....just putting it out there that some reputable second hand sellers do exist.


I appreciate the suggestion. Thanks
AS


----------



## WiZARD7

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> From those photos, I am 99% certain its genuine.
> A better closer photo of the movement would help that last 1%
> 
> A


Thanks, maybe this helps for that last 1% 
http://kephost.com/images/2017/04/25/DSC00045.jpg


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

WiZARD7 said:


> Thanks, maybe this helps for that last 1%
> http://kephost.com/images/2017/04/25/DSC00045.jpg


Yep, GENUINE
a


----------



## NortheastJasper

Adam Selene said:


> That fake posted a few posts back, #1554 by NortheastJasper, is on ebay now - same serial number, etc.
> I must say I have become very disillusioned over the number of fakes out there. I've come to the conclusion that the risk is too high to buy a Panerai second hand. I've had my heart set on a Panerai for some time but it seems everything on ebay has something suspicious about it. I almost fell for this one but the papers and the movement didnt quite look right and then I was shocked to see the very watch listed in this thread. This is my first post. I've been reading this forum for some time learning how to identify a fake. I've learned a lot so I thank you people for the service you provide.
> 
> AS


little scroke! glad you dodge a bullet, he had gone to the hassle of faking a bank statement from his dead brother for this watch !


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Got it - thanks - reportted
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Luminor-Marina-P9000-PAM359-44mm-NEW-/152523118892?hash=item238316192c:g:kLUAAOSwXYtYyt4 u
> 
> A


Removed by eBay.
Thanks.
adam


----------



## Adam Selene

NortheastJasper said:


> little scroke! glad you dodge a bullet, he had gone to the hassle of faking a bank statement from his dead brother for this watch !


Betcha he must have been surprised when that listing was removed. The bids were getting it up there in price.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Adam Selene said:


> Betcha he must have been surprised when that listing was removed. The bids were getting it up there in price.


I bet he was.
But he was a BIG seller, he may have been duped?
A


----------



## WiZARD7

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yep, GENUINE
> a


Thank you.
This is my first Panerai


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

WiZARD7 said:


> Thank you.
> This is my first Panerai


ENJOY


----------



## devimalisa

Hello,

Recently, I interested in this eBay listing number 390913564334

But I have question on it's authenticity

Why it crown winding screw seems "not flush in enough - have some gap to watch case / different" from photo of gen in Panerai website?

See bellow :

1st photo is Ebay seller photo

2nd photo is Pam 499 from Panerai website

3rd photo is collage - comparison photo
Is my observation true, that seller item is not genuine because its winding crown not close enough to watch case (have some kind of bolt between crown and watch case) 
than genuine winding crown?

Please help









Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

devimalisa said:


> Hello,
> 
> Recently, I interested in this eBay listing number 390913564334
> 
> But I have question on it's authenticity
> 
> Why it crown winding screw seems "not flush in enough - have some gap to watch case / different" from photo of gen in Panerai website?
> 
> See bellow :
> 
> 1st photo is Ebay seller photo
> 
> 2nd photo is Pam 499 from Panerai website
> 
> 3rd photo is collage - comparison photo
> Is my observation true, that seller item is not genuine because its winding crown not close enough to watch case (have some kind of bolt between crown and watch case)
> than genuine winding crown?
> 
> Please help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


HIGHLY suspect, but the most important photo is a movement shot, and the seller only provides that as unviewable (tiny)
I would not buy

adam


----------



## devimalisa

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> HIGHLY suspect, but the most important photo is a movement shot, and the seller only provides that as unviewable (tiny)
> I would not buy
> 
> adam


Here it is, I rotated it in 2nd photo









Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## devimalisa

Balance wheel seems located at 7 o'clock

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

devimalisa said:


> Balance wheel seems located at 7 o'clock
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


Nicely done.
From those photos
I think all correct and good.

Adam


----------



## devimalisa

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Nicely done.
> From those photos
> I think all correct and good.
> 
> Adam


Thanks for your input!

Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

devimalisa said:


> Thanks for your input!
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 2 using Tapatalk


Pleasure


----------



## Mezoxin

Is this one a fake or original ?


----------



## Mezoxin

its number is pam6747 and bb1281053


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

My guess is fake, but I have not studied it in great detail.


----------



## Mezoxin

i guess its a fake too probably because the area under the BB doesn't have the serial number as in this piece


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Good guess
A


----------



## Mezoxin

can you believe that the original owner of this replica watch bought it for 5900 $ a couple of years ago !!!


----------



## McGriddle

The caseback with OP6467 actually belongs to a PAM 307 which uses Luminova and not Tritium. The face of the watch you're showing is from a PAM 193 (with the "T" denoting tritium and should have a more plain caseback without the Pangea map. Anyway, it's fake.


----------



## m630

Fake


----------



## sicsemperperplexus

This watch appeared in an ebay auction today. The inclusion of the box and papers piqued my curiosity. Of course, it's priced about $2000 less than all the comparable auctions and the seller has very little feedback.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Probably is.
All looks good and has all the correct points for that movement
adam


----------



## captinphildo

This one looks suspicious to me, I don't see a swan neck in the movement
Panerai Luminor Marina PAM 111 (Manual Wind) 7612456230233 | eBay


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

captinphildo said:


> This one looks suspicious to me, I don't see a swan neck in the movement
> Panerai Luminor Marina PAM 111 (Manual Wind) 7612456230233 | eBay


REPORTED thanks
Should get removed
a


----------



## romanista.cucs

Hi everybody. My friend has been offered this Panerai Luminor Base PAM00112. What do you think about it?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

romanista.cucs said:


> Hi everybody. My friend has been offered this Panerai Luminor Base PAM00112. What do you think about it?
> 
> View attachment 11832306
> View attachment 11832314
> View attachment 11832322


Looks correct/genuine
No glaring issues
adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> REPORTED thanks
> Should get removed
> a


Removed by Ebay


----------



## imdrax

Found a black case panerai and im fairly certain it is real but my main question is if the black case is factory or an aftermarket modifcation. I cant seem to find any info on this exact model.


----------



## Synequano

That's pam 005 with aftermarket coating...according on the sticker only


----------



## imdrax

Synequano said:


> That's pam 005 with aftermarket coating...according on the sticker only


Generally should be paying less for one with a coating?


----------



## Wlover

This makes the 005 a Frankenstein. Cool but no longer original.

I'll also say from the pic the screws is almost flushed with the lug, suggesting that case has been polished before.



imdrax said:


> Generally should be paying less for one with a coating?


----------



## doves75

Hi guys,
I would like to ask you a big favor. I'm interested with this Panerai watch and would like to authenticate it. its from eBay and the seller has thousands of great review. It comes with the boxes and all numbers are match with those little stickers. This will be my 1st Panerai. If i bring the watch the the Panerai store, Would they be able to authenticate it as well? i attached some of the pics here. Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it.


----------



## doves75

more pics attached...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hi
I believe your watch is a PAM392 or Luminor Marina 1950 3 Days Automatic PAM 392
If so it should use a P9000 caliber movement that is 28 Jewels!!

Strange the seller is covering with a useless sticker all the movement.

I need a photo of movement withOUT sticker or at least confirm the PAM number

Best
adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Ah, you posted decent photos
GENUINE - good to go
adam


----------



## doves75

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Ah, you posted decent photos
> GENUINE - good to go
> adam


Hi Adam,
Im sorry I did not write down the model number, It is a PAM01312. I posted 2 pics of movement w/o the stickers. So, in your Opinion the watch is Authentic? 
Thank you so much.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

doves75 said:


> Hi Adam,
> Im sorry I did not write down the model number, It is a PAM01312. I posted 2 pics of movement w/o the stickers. So, in your Opinion the watch is Authentic?
> Thank you so much.


Yes and PAM1312 is correct


----------



## doves75

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yes and PAM1312 is correct


Thank you so much and I really appreciate your help. I finally have my 1st Panerai watch...wohooo!!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

doves75 said:


> Thank you so much and I really appreciate your help. I finally have my 1st Panerai watch...wohooo!!


AWESOME watch
Enjoy
A


----------



## clyde2801

*Once again, dear friends, into the breach....*

Decent pics on this listing. PAM 1359. Would appreciate any advice or insight from Adam or the other online paneristi ninjas.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: Once again, dear friends, into the breach....*



clyde2801 said:


> Decent pics on this listing. PAM 1359. Would appreciate any advice or insight from Adam or the other online paneristi ninjas.
> View attachment 12225418
> View attachment 12225426
> View attachment 12225434
> View attachment 12225442


*
In my opinion fake.*


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

So no response = FAKE.


----------



## Synequano

That 1359 is fake,the P9010 doesn't look like that,compare it to few posts earlier


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Synequano said:


> That 1359 is fake,the P9010 doesn't look like that,compare it to few posts earlier


Agreed, and OP knows it


----------



## nitros

Guy help me to find out if genuine, I'm not sure about the date wheel









Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

From those photos, nothing looks correct


----------



## nitros

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> From those photos, nothing looks correct


Thank you

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Wlover

Would you please elaborate?



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> From those photos, nothing looks correct


----------



## nitros

Wlover said:


> Would you please elaborate?


Well I think the first thing is the date wheel

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Wlover

Yes the date wheel starts changing at 11 pm for this model so nothing wrong. 

As for the authenticity, I say buy the seller not the watch. The pics are too blur anyway.

Hope to hear from other owners of the 441... cheers.


----------



## Synequano

I have 441 but find it difficult to determine from the blurry pictures...the date wheel starts turning from 11-12 so that's normal...


----------



## nitros

Let's try









Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## nitros

I don't know Tapatalk app seem to ruin the pics as on my phone are nice and crisp

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



nitros said:


> I don't know Tapatalk app seem to ruin the pics as on my phone are nice and crisp
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


Don't think you need to worry about TP here to be honest... this thing is as fake as they come at $80 at a tourist trap shop in Turkey, HD photos or not.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Synequano

But they don't have panerai on that banner lol...


----------



## korneevy

Synequano said:


> But they don't have panerai on that banner lol...


Haha, they prob dropped the brand following the release of new models with snap casebacks and non-water resistant diving watch cases. Even counterfeiters have their pride


----------



## nitros

Thank you all for the help

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## kwang411

I was bored and browsing ebay today and came across this PAM111 listing, pretty sure it's a fake looking at the swan neck, even though seller claims is authentic.

Panerai Luminor PAM00111 PAM111 | eBay

You experts take a look, and report it if is indeed fake. A lot of people watching, hopefully no one gets tricked...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

kwang411 said:


> I was bored and browsing ebay today and came across this PAM111 listing, pretty sure it's a fake looking at the swan neck, even though seller claims is authentic.
> 
> Panerai Luminor PAM00111 PAM111 | eBay
> 
> You experts take a look, and report it if is indeed fake. A lot of people watching, hopefully no one gets tricked...


REPORTED
Thanks. Will monitor


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> REPORTED
> Thanks. Will monitor


Removed by ebay, thanks the heads up

This ad (**********) has been deleted or the article is no longer available.


Make sure you entered the correct item number.
Ads that ended 90 days or more will not show.


----------



## clyde2801

I went to NAWCC national convention today, and met a kind of watch sponsor/mentor. Good ol'boy. Mostly collects Rolex. I leave before he does and he asks me to do him a fave and run a panerai he picked up over to a old timer watch smith near me; GOB lives on the other side of the state. He was fairly sure it was an authentic Unitas, and was with another frequent trading colleague who is into high end Swiss pieces. Looking at the watch, I exclaimed (in unison with two passerby, I might add): "It's a 005 for God's sake, they never came with a exhibition case!" Now here's where it gets interesting: the old timer has seen plenty of every chinese fake out there, and his conclusion was, though while not from the glorious People's Republic, it appeared to be authentic ETA, but he couldn't say with clarity if the movement was finished by OP or was a fake finished Unitas. For your consideration, I give you the following pictures:


















































Thanks in advance for any advice or feedback.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hi
First are you sure its a PAM005 - That is the Historic Series with a Luminar Logo (your does not have that). What is the OP number on the case?
These are PAM 005 - note the logo on dial
https://www.google.es/search?q=PAM+...6-jUAhWCJMAKHcRiDsAQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=638

Also a PAM 005 is an OP6513 that is NOT the OP number on yours.
We need the OP number on case back to fully decide

Best
Adam


----------



## clyde2801

OP6567

D'oh! You're right! Think I'd remember that with a base logo! But, sausage dial with exhibition back? Huh, whut?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

clyde2801 said:


> OP6567
> 
> D'oh! You're right! Think I'd remember that with a base logo!


OK
Yours is a PAM 111
Using Caliber OP XI OR ETA 6497/2 (UNITAS)
NOTHING like yours
FAKE
ADam


----------



## Synequano

Fake...

111H already come with sandwich dial (that painted dial is from E-G series)

No swan neck and the graffiti movt have different engravings (and only available up to G series as well)


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Synequano said:


> Fake...
> 
> 111H already come with sandwich dial (that painted dial is from E-G series)
> 
> No swan neck and the graffiti movt have different engravings (and only available up to G series as well)


Thanks your "speedy" confirmation
Adam


----------



## mountainrivera

Hi All: Looking at this strap and buckle for my 423. Seller purports it's original. The stamp looks very light but the good clear pics lead me to believe it is legit. Most selling fake stuff do so with crappy pics. Thanks in advance for your input.


----------



## clyde2801

I just came from the NAWCC national convention in Arlington, TX. Everyone on the trade floor told me they eschew used PAMs because of this problem. My collector trader friend is literally a walking reference and compendium on Rolex, but it looks like he got burned on a trade. 

OTOH, if you're into other brands I cannot recommend checking this and similar meets enough. Felt like a Native American in exact middle of a buffalo herd with only three arrows left in his quiver.


----------



## korneevy

mountainrivera said:


> Hi All: Looking at this strap and buckle for my 423. Seller purports it's original. The stamp looks very light but the good clear pics lead me to believe it is legit. Most selling fake stuff do so with crappy pics. Thanks in advance for your input.
> 
> View attachment 12301530
> View attachment 12301538


Fake. Look at the scales and the space between the scales of this "alligator" - this is stamped, and then painted, calf.


----------



## Limpy

No papers or box, Seller is willing to meet at a Panerai dealer to get it authenticated but still looking for input.

h t t p://s52.photobucket.com/user/SilverCR-V/media/SmartSelectImage_2017-07-02-13-55-38_zpsu0niem7a.png.html


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

clyde2801 said:


> I just came from the NAWCC national convention in Arlington, TX. Everyone on the trade floor told me they eschew used PAMs because of this problem. My collector trader friend is literally a walking reference and compendium on Rolex, but it looks like he got burned on a trade.


Well at least you can see (in most cases) the Panerai movement.
In my opinion and experience, one of the easiest to tell fake or not.
Adam


----------



## korneevy

Limpy said:


> No papers or box, Seller is willing to meet at a Panerai dealer to get it authenticated but still looking for input.
> 
> h t t p://s52.photobucket.com/user/SilverCR-V/media/SmartSelectImage_2017-07-02-13-55-38_zpsu0niem7a.png.html


Well may be you can go as far as posting photos in the thread rather than sending people outside via a link that requires work to work?


----------



## mountainrivera

Thanks for the input on the strap


----------



## doves75

Hi,
just a quick question. Does Panerai watch still comes with Authenticity plastic card? Mine only comes with manual and warranty book (the watch is from 2017). And one more thing, is it recommended to register the watch to Panerai by sending out the postcard? Thank you.


----------



## m8san

doves75 said:


> Hi,
> just a quick question. Does Panerai watch still comes with Authenticity plastic card? Mine only comes with manual and warranty book (the watch is from 2017). And one more thing, is it recommended to register the watch to Panerai by sending out the postcard? Thank you.


I just purchased a new Panerai this week, and I only got the warranty and manual books and the three stickers. No cards. Mine is an R series, which I believe means it was produced in 2015 (maybe someone with more knowledge can confirm).


----------



## DieSkim

I purchased 2x R series models. The one with in-house movement only came with warranty book, the other one had a card.
If you purchase through an AD there is no need to register a watch. If they have your details, you just present back to them if you have any warranty/service issues.


----------



## dgadicherla

Hello awesome people of WUS.

Here is a Panerai I am interested in at a good price (still trying to gather the green to pay for it). Would love your two cents on the time piece please. Comes without a box or papers (i know, but may be that's why the price is tempting).


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Sorry
Based on the movement, I believe this is fake.
It should use Caliber OP11 which is based on the Unitas 6497, and highly decorated
Should look like this:
https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...UIBigB&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=4iNrz0CpkglaTM:

Adam


----------



## dgadicherla

Ahhh Adam to the rescue, as always. Thanks mate, really appreciate it.


HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Sorry
> Based on the movement, I believe this is fake.
> It should use Caliber OP11 which is based on the Unitas 6497, and highly decorated
> Should look like this:
> https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...UIBigB&biw=1366&bih=638#imgrc=4iNrz0CpkglaTM:
> 
> Adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

dgadicherla said:


> Ahhh Adam to the rescue, as always. Thanks mate, really appreciate it.


Pleasure
I am sure I am correct. To be honest the whole quality of back looks poor, as does crown.
Movement in yours, from what I can see is not UNITAS but SEAGULL
Here is another movement shot
https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...#imgdii=sFrlOgu8rlDxjM:&imgrc=QVcwCzTCj3fL6M:


----------



## dgadicherla

So technically if the price is too good to be true, it is more or less a fake?!
I just saw another Panerai on ebay for $1000. Really unbelievable and the seller is hellbent on it being original. PANERAI PAM 563 LUMINOR MARINA 8 DAYS ACCIAIO WHITE DIAL | eBay

How do I not be tempted in to these things??



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Pleasure
> I am sure I am correct. To be honest the whole quality of back looks poor, as does crown.
> Movement in yours, from what I can see is not UNITAS but SEAGULL
> Here is another movement shot
> https://www.google.es/search?q=Pane...#imgdii=sFrlOgu8rlDxjM:&imgrc=QVcwCzTCj3fL6M:


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

dgadicherla said:


> So technically if the price is too good to be true, it is more or less a fake?!
> I just saw another Panerai on ebay for $1000. Really unbelievable and the seller is hellbent on it being original. PANERAI PAM 563 LUMINOR MARINA 8 DAYS ACCIAIO WHITE DIAL | eBay
> 
> How do I not be tempted in to these things??


I suspect the photos are stolen, I spent some time looking, but could not find anything exact.
Not Reported


----------



## m630

dgadicherla said:


> So technically if the price is too good to be true, it is more or less a fake?!
> I just saw another Panerai on ebay for $1000. Really unbelievable and the seller is hellbent on it being original. PANERAI PAM 563 LUMINOR MARINA 8 DAYS ACCIAIO WHITE DIAL | eBay
> 
> How do I not be tempted in to these things??


Yes, why would anyone sell something worth $1 for 20 cents,,simple as that. There are plenty of reputable resellers where you can determine the fair price of a used watch, so do some research and if you see something that is well out of expected fair range, chances are its a fake


----------



## dgadicherla

Oh darn!


HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I suspect the photos are stolen, I spent some time looking, but could not find anything exact.
> Not Reported


----------



## Cmg77

Ok I have a Panerai Luminor Marina that I need help with. It's well worn and needs some attention. It was my late uncles and don't have any papers or box any help would be great thanks


----------



## ocinatas

Concerned that the numbers should be more crisp, especially the 12. Is this normal? Any other issues? I don't have pictures of the movement. Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## korneevy

ocinatas said:


> Concerned that the numbers should be more crisp, especially the 12. Is this normal? Any other issues? I don't have pictures of the movement. Thanks in advance for any help.
> View attachment 12356509
> View attachment 12356513
> View attachment 12356515
> View attachment 12356519
> View attachment 12356521


Fake. Don't waste your time


----------



## ocinatas

korneevy said:


> Fake. Don't waste your time


Thanks, but why specifically do you think it's fake?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Cmg77 said:


> Ok I have a Panerai Luminor Marina that I need help with. It's well worn and needs some attention. It was my late uncles and don't have any papers or box any help would be great thanks


Needs much better movement photos, especially balance wheel area - currently suspect
a


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ocinatas said:


> Concerned that the numbers should be more crisp, especially the 12. Is this normal? Any other issues? I don't have pictures of the movement. Thanks in advance for any help.
> View attachment 12356509
> View attachment 12356513
> View attachment 12356515
> View attachment 12356519
> View attachment 12356521


I also believe fake
Many tell-tale signs
a


----------



## korneevy

ocinatas said:


> Thanks, but why specifically do you think it's fake?


It's just fake all over - nothing is believable about it. I can't be bothered documenting what's wrong with every piece of it - but the movement, dial, hands, cyclops on the crystal, date wheel and strap are fake. That should be plenty to worry about if you are seriously considering spending anything over $200 on it.


----------



## Hwest1013

korneevy said:


> Fake. Don't waste your time


I think the poor engraving on the back gives it away, and the bleeding Lum. Most importantly the engraving just looks shoddy. The fact that it comes with certificates that match is scary.

Only way to really know is to bring it to a watch maker and have him crack it open to look at the movement. If you don't want to do that, I'd pass on it based on lack of confidence.

How much is the seller asking?


----------



## Synequano

That looks like the old pam 27...as the older PR model with soprod movt has the PR at 6 and central second hand

However,check the movt to be totally sure about that


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Needs much better movement photos, especially balance wheel area - currently suspect
> a


I'll get movement photos


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ocinatas said:


> I'll get movement photos


excellent


----------



## Cmg77

Is this a better picture


----------



## Cmg77

Another picture


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> excellent


Internal pics below and video here:


----------



## ocinatas

Correct video link here:


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ocinatas said:


> Internal pics below and video here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 12358663
> View attachment 12358665
> View attachment 12358667
> View attachment 12358669
> View attachment 12358671
> View attachment 12358675
> View attachment 12358679
> View attachment 12358681
> View attachment 12358683


Its FAKE
Should be using the SOPROD 9040 movement which is a modified ETA 2892
Yours is not = FAKE
Sorry


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Its FAKE
> Should be using the SOPROD 9040 movement which is a modified ETA 2892
> Yours is not = FAKE
> Sorry


What makes you think that is not a Soprod 9040 movement? It looks like 9040 pictures I've seen online. It's also stamped 9040. Here's a picture from Chrono24 of a 9040 in a PAM00028

View attachment 12359441


----------



## ocinatas

PAM00028 with Soprod 9040


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ocinatas said:


> PAM00028 with Soprod 9040
> View attachment 12359445


You "may" be correct.
BUT I believe it should have the ETA Marque Depose and 2892 caliber stamped on base plate.

9040 on rotor is meaningless as far as authenticity is concerned.
I would add the ONLY place I can see a movement likes yours is on the famous replica site RWI

Up to you
adam


----------



## Cmg77

Is this picture better


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Cmg77 said:


> Is this a better picture


These are better pictures? Focus is terrible
What model number is this OP6587?? Confirm

But nothing, and I mean nothing looks correct in your movement
So I still say FAKE
Thanks

EDIT
OK I think you have a fake OP6567 = PAM 111
Which is the Caliber op XI
NOTHING LIKE YOURS - FAKE


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



Cmg77 said:


> Is this picture better


Just threw up in my mouth. You can't really think that this is how a $5K watch movement should look like? If yes then I have many a bridge to sell.


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> You "may" be correct.
> BUT I believe it should have the ETA Marque Depose and 2892 caliber stamped on base plate.
> 
> 9040 on rotor is meaningless as far as authenticity is concerned.
> I would add the ONLY place I can see a movement likes yours is on the famous replica site RWI
> 
> Up to you
> adam


Is this the stamp you're referring to?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ocinatas said:


> Is this the stamp you're referring to?
> View attachment 12360069


No!
That looks very faked and stamped on a SEAGULL movement.
See below for original ETA stamping


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Here is what I am looking for
https://www.google.es/search?biw=13......0i7i30k1.uYDOyiA_onE#imgrc=_dZcNHYBAG_WjM:


----------



## Cmg77

Yes op 6567


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Cmg77 said:


> Yes op 6567


Then FAKE
OP 6567 is an PAM 111
That uses a calicer OP XI
NOTHING like yours
Confirmed FAKE
adam


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Here is what I am looking for
> https://www.google.es/search?biw=13......0i7i30k1.uYDOyiA_onE#imgrc=_dZcNHYBAG_WjM:


This is as close as I got. So you think it's a forged stamp on a Seagull movement? I wonder what the dimensions of a Seagull movement would be. This movement's dimensions match the diameter on the COSC certificate.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Decision is yours.
I have plenty ETA movements the stamping is perfect.
I also have SEAGULL equivalent movements dimensions are same - even the hands staff is same
Adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ADDITIONAL to above
That movement is not, from what I can see using INCABLOC as ETA uses - its using SEAGULL ST2555 style shock protection!
There is another telling point that this is SEAGULL movement

From all I can see I still stae watch is fake and act with EXTREME caution
adam


----------



## koomka

Pam 112 I so much would like to bye


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

koomka said:


> View attachment 12361111
> View attachment 12361115
> View attachment 12361121
> View attachment 12361123
> View attachment 12361127
> Pam 112 I so much would like to bye


Could very well be
Need better photo of balance wheel area to confirm
BUT
Its looking promising (wink)
adam


----------



## Hwest1013

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ADDITIONAL to above
> That movement is not, from what I can see using INCABLOC as ETA uses - its using SEAGULL ST2555 style shock protection!
> There is another telling point that this is SEAGULL movement
> 
> From all I can see I still stae watch is fake and act with EXTREME caution
> adam


Out of curiosity, could you explain the stylistic difference between the ETA incabloc and the Seagull incabloc? Honestly I'm having trouble deciphering between the two. I'd appreciate it.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hwest1013 said:


> Out of curiosity, could you explain the stylistic difference between the ETA incabloc and the Seagull incabloc? Honestly I'm having trouble deciphering between the two. I'd appreciate it.


just post photos
regards


----------



## koomka




----------



## koomka




----------



## HOROLOGIST007

koomka said:


> View attachment 12361161


That is perfect
BUT I need one of whole balance wheel and Swan Neck


----------



## koomka




----------



## koomka

I'll take better pictures tomorrow


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ADDITIONAL to above
> That movement is not, from what I can see using INCABLOC as ETA uses - its using SEAGULL ST2555 style shock protection!
> There is another telling point that this is SEAGULL movement
> 
> From all I can see I still stae watch is fake and act with EXTREME caution
> adam


First, thank you for taking time to look at all this info. I really want the truth and don't want to defend something that isn't authentic. But from pictures I've found, this watch's movement doesn't look like the Seagull ST2555. It looks, to my eye, exactly like an ETA 2892A2:

Watch in question








ETA 2892A2








Seagull ST2555








Unless my research is completely off, this movement is most definitely not a Seagull ST2555. You may be working off memory, but it would be helpful if you, instead, back up your assertions with evidence (e.g. pictures/links) - that is, if you want to be helpful. No disrespect intended, and I'm learning a lot about this watch thanks in large part to your feedback. I don't know what your expertise with PAMs is, but if you're right, I most certainly want to know. However, guesses that are blatantly inaccurate are not helpful.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

koomka said:


> I'll take better pictures tomorrow


They are fine
Watch is GENUINE - ENJOY
Adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ocinatas said:


> First, thank you for taking time to look at all this info. I really want the truth and don't want to defend something that isn't authentic. But from pictures I've found, this watch's movement doesn't look like the Seagull ST2555. It looks, to my eye, exactly like an ETA 2892A2:
> 
> Watch in question
> View attachment 12361177
> 
> 
> ETA 2892A2
> View attachment 12361181
> 
> 
> Seagull ST2555
> View attachment 12361197
> 
> 
> Unless my research is completely off, this movement is most definitely not a Seagull ST2555. You may be working off memory, but it would be helpful if you, instead, back up your assertions with evidence (e.g. pictures/links) - that is, if you want to be helpful. No disrespect intended, and I'm learning a lot about this watch thanks in large part to your feedback. I don't know what your expertise with PAMs is, but if you're right, I most certainly want to know. However, guesses that are blatantly inaccurate are not helpful.


Please show the shock protection on your watch and an ETA, that will help us decide.
And please try not to be rude - I am happy to bow out!

ADAM


----------



## koomka

I appreciate your help a lot. Thank You!!!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ocinatas said:


> This is as close as I got. So you think it's a forged stamp on a Seagull movement? I wonder what the dimensions of a Seagull movement would be. This movement's dimensions match the diameter on the COSC certificate.
> View attachment 12360213
> View attachment 12360215
> View attachment 12360217


I just went back to study these, and the certificate serial number and movement match.
That is surely an important point to validating as authentic
A


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I just went back to study these, and the certificate serial number and movement match.
> That is surely an important point to validating as authentic
> A


Yes, the paperwork does match up.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Would still want to see the shock protection, prior to giving it the "all clear"


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Would still want to see the shock protection, prior to giving it the "all clear"


Not sure what you mean. The shock protection is visible in the pictures posted above. I don't think I could get a better picture of it without taking the balance wheel off.


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Would still want to see the shock protection, prior to giving it the "all clear"


I meant, I don't think I could get a better picture of the shock protection without removing the rotor.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ocinatas said:


> I meant, I don't think I could get a better picture of the shock protection without removing the rotor.


No worries.
I personally can not add any more.
I also am not able to 100% authenticate
Sorry
Adam


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> No worries.
> I personally can not add any more.
> I also am not able to 100% authenticate
> Sorry
> Adam


If it is the correct movement and shock protection, your opinion would be that it is authentic, correct?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ocinatas said:


> If it is the correct movement and shock protection, your opinion would be that it is authentic, correct?


Yes!


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yes!


Thanks for all your help


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ocinatas said:


> Thanks for all your help


Pleasure
If I HAD to make a yes or No call on this now I would go with genuine. If I add up the positives versus the negatives - the positives just win

Enjoy your watch
adam


----------



## ocinatas

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Pleasure
> If I HAD to make a yes or No call on this now I would go with genuine. If I add up the positives versus the negatives - the positives just win
> 
> Enjoy your watch
> adam


Thanks, Adam. And, yes, I am


----------



## Martinooo

Hi all, 
I need some help in order to autenticate my new (but used) Panerai PAM00104. Actually I'm suspicious for 2 main reasons: the price I paid and the fact that the watch come with no protection attached. The rest of the corredo is ok, COSC seems legit, the international guarantee certificate too, with the reference of the seller in the back, that I searched in the corporate website of PANERAI and it results to be an official reseller. Box is ok, and it came with a bigger one in black. Numbers on the back of the watch are matching the numbers in the certificate. Now I will try to post some picture. After this community help I think I will go anyway in a boutique to make it autenticate, but I don't want that they destroy it because I would need in order to have a refund... 
Thank yu in advance for all the help you will provide me and sorry for my bad english, I'm italian.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Martinooo said:


> Hi all,
> I need some help in order to autenticate my new (but used) Panerai PAM00104. Actually I'm suspicious for 2 main reasons: the price I paid and the fact that the watch come with no protection attached. The rest of the corredo is ok, COSC seems legit, the international guarantee certificate too, with the reference of the seller in the back, that I searched in the corporate website of PANERAI and it results to be an official reseller. Box is ok, and it came with a bigger one in black. Numbers on the back of the watch are matching the numbers in the certificate. Now I will try to post some picture. After this community help I think I will go anyway in a boutique to make it autenticate, but I don't want that they destroy it because I would need in order to have a refund...
> Thank yu in advance for all the help you will provide me and sorry for my bad english, I'm italian.


Your English is fine indeed great.
But we need photos.
You need 5 posts to post a link, so you may need to do another 3 posts before you can post a link

Regards


----------



## Martinooo

Oh really ? 
Ok so I can't use the "insert image" tool ? 
I'll write something about me then


----------



## Martinooo




----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Martinooo said:


> Oh really ?
> Ok so I can't use the "insert image" tool ?
> I'll write something about me then


Cool
You are now up to 2.
Just tell a bit more


----------



## Martinooo

No, seems working !


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Martinooo said:


> View attachment 12374267


Please post FULL photos so we can see the complete dial and crown guard front and back


----------



## Martinooo

I'm sorry but apparently I am supposed to insert just one pic at the time


----------



## Martinooo

Excuse me what do you mean ? In a vertical mode ? I'll do it !
I have to take the pic with the smartphone then email it to my pc and then upload so it will take a minute...


----------



## Martinooo




----------



## Martinooo




----------



## Martinooo




----------



## Martinooo




----------



## Martinooo




----------



## Martinooo




----------



## Martinooo

I am very sorry, but didn't find a way to turn the images...
Anyway that was the last one, but if you need others photos of some particular don't hesitate. My problem is that with my samsung do not take macro pictures, and it goes very blur when close...


----------



## Martinooo

@HOROLOGIST do you want me to take off the bracelet in order to take photos front and back ? 
It is not a problem, just the light is not very good now here...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Watch and box look good to me.
I can see NO glaring issue
But only sure way is a movement photo. But I think its authentic based on a few photos

Your photos are all fine


----------



## Martinooo

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Watch and box look good to me.
> I can see NO glaring issue
> But only sure way is a movement photo. But I think its authentic based on a few photos
> 
> Your photos are all fine


Thank you very much ! Do you think I could open by myself or it would be better to let it open buy an horologist in a boutique? It would be embarrassing somehow


----------



## Martinooo

Ah and my question was : Why it didn't came with a plastic protection ? I had seen plenty on internet


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Martinooo said:


> Thank you very much ! Do you think I could open by myself or it would be better to let it open buy an horologist in a boutique? It would be embarrassing somehow


Get an AD or a good jeweller to do, if you are still concerned.
I think its genuine


----------



## Martinooo

Thank you !
So it was a great deal then


----------



## Phass

Is my panerai real ??
i bought this bnib in 2011 , from private seller ...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Phass said:


> Is my panerai real ??
> i bought this bnib in 2011 , from private seller ...


Spoke to soon
Korneevy may be well correct - Fake


----------



## korneevy

Phass said:


> Is my panerai real ??
> i bought this bnib in 2011 , from private seller ...


No, it is not. Prob should have asked this BEFORE buying 6 years ago.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

korneevy said:


> No, it is not. Prob should have asked this BEFORE buying 6 years ago.


YOU are RIGHT
FAKE
Adam


----------



## Phass

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Spoke to soon
> Korneevy may be well correct - Fake


Thanks mate..
because i have never posted it to get opinion real or fakee...
i just see it and compare mine ..


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Phass said:


> Thanks mate..
> because i have never posted it to get opinion real or fakee...
> i just see it and compare mine ..


Well your photos are not very great, but looking closer, it surely has the identity of the fakes.
Does the power reserve dial work???
Can you set the GMT hand to different time zones?


----------



## Phass

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Well your photos are not very great, but looking closer, it surely has the identity of the fakes.
> Does the power reserve dial work???
> Can you set the GMT hand to different time zones?


yes , the power reserve dial work 
and also the gmt hand i can set to different time zones..


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Phass said:


> yes , the power reserve dial work
> and also the gmt hand i can set to different time zones..


Interesting. I do not have a fake of THE POWER RESERVE model, so I never thought the complication worked on the fakes.
BUT from the "poor" photos the movement looks fake.
Try posting better photos of the balance wheel area.
Does the escape wheel turn??


----------



## korneevy

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Interesting. I do not have a fake of THE POWER RESERVE model, so I never thought the complication worked on the fakes.
> BUT from the "poor" photos the movement looks fake.
> Try posting better photos of the balance wheel area.
> Does the escape wheel turn??


There are plenty of fakes with working power reserve, all very cheap crude ones based off some unnamed Chinese "21j" movements... they used to be prevailing a long time ago but even fakers moved on as the movements were failing often and not reliable.


----------



## Phass




----------



## HOROLOGIST007

korneevy said:


> There are plenty of fakes with working power reserve, all very cheap crude ones based off some unnamed Chinese "21j" movements... they used to be prevailing a long time ago but even fakers moved on as the movements were failing often and not reliable.


Thanks - its the escape wheel that determines it
a


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Phass said:


> View attachment 12386693


Sorry
FAKE


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Sorry
> FAKE


Well it takes less than 30 sec to google this off the Panerai website... don't think there is a need to explore this any further, the photo speaks a 1000 words. What surprises me, every time, is that folks out there are either so lazy or rich that they'd go and throw $6K down the toilet without doing as much as a 10 mins research into what the heck are they buying. Sure, there are some very very very well made fakes that even Panerai sales people will have a hard time telling from a genuine article, but most cases posted here are just plain lame, majority of photos are screaming fake from a mile away.










Compare with this attempt by our Chinese friends










If one still can't tell the difference, they should stick with wearing a Fitbit.


----------



## EdmundGTP

Indulge me if you guys don't mind. At a quick glance the two appear to be very close. With respect to the escape wheel is it simply a matter of difference in size and the number of teeth? Looking even closer it appears the escape wheel is brassy in color and also may only have 3 spokes? In earlier pictures there's also a lack of a hyphen in "TWENTY-NINE". 

Maybe it's just me, but beyond those, you'd have to give that movement a pretty hard look to spot any easy tells.


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



EdmundGTP said:


> Indulge me if you guys don't mind. At a quick glance the two appear to be very close. With respect to the escape wheel is it simply a matter of difference in size and the number of teeth? Looking even closer it appears the escape wheel is brassy in color and also may only have 3 spokes? In earlier pictures there's also a lack of a hyphen in "TWENTY-NINE".
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but beyond those, you'd have to give that movement a pretty hard look to spot any easy tells.


Actually it looks as far away from "spot on" as possible... everything is wrong and the list is long... for starters - the fake's second wheel is for decoration only, it does not serve any purpose. Finishing on the main plate is terrible, no perliage under the escape wheel, brushing on parts is very coarse and very poor quality, screws are of wrong diameter and very cheaply done with flat tops vs the genuine with nice beveled tops. Printing on rotor is terrible, wrong font and too shallow; same on the main plate. Basically it just looks like a $30 Chinese movement, which is what it is, plain and simple...to be fair, genuine Panerai manufacture movements, in general, are not your high-end horologie either, pretty bog-standard design and machine-made finish, but they will never look anything like this, period...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Phass

Kinda confused here ?? So mine is real isn't it ?? Or fake ??
it has box and paper and all number are match..
serial number , case number , movement number ,etc..
the power reserve also work 3 days ..


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

EdmundGTP said:


> Indulge me if you guys don't mind. At a quick glance the two *appear to be very close*. With respect to the escape wheel is it simply a matter of difference in size and the number of teeth? Looking even closer it appears the escape wheel is brassy in color and also may only have 3 spokes? In earlier pictures there's also a lack of a hyphen in "TWENTY-NINE".
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but beyond those, you'd have to give that movement a pretty hard look to spot any easy tells.


You answered it yourself - "appears" and "is" are a mile apart.
AND
If you look closely, they are completely different
a


----------



## Wlover

Hi ocinatas,

I've not visited watchuseek for a while. I noticed that horologist is still dishing out a lot of advices. Please take his advice with a bottle of salt. Check out earlier threads ard say 2013 when he first joined here and in the Rolex section and you will know what I mean. If in doubt, get the watch authenticated instead of getting grief here.

Cheers.



ocinatas said:


> First, thank you for taking time to look at all this info. I really want the truth and don't want to defend something that isn't authentic. But from pictures I've found, this watch's movement doesn't look like the Seagull ST2555. It looks, to my eye, exactly like an ETA 2892A2:
> 
> Watch in question
> View attachment 12361177
> 
> 
> ETA 2892A2
> View attachment 12361181
> 
> 
> Seagull ST2555
> View attachment 12361197
> 
> 
> Unless my research is completely off, this movement is most definitely not a Seagull ST2555. You may be working off memory, but it would be helpful if you, instead, back up your assertions with evidence (e.g. pictures/links) - that is, if you want to be helpful. No disrespect intended, and I'm learning a lot about this watch thanks in large part to your feedback. I don't know what your expertise with PAMs is, but if you're right, I most certainly want to know. However, guesses that are blatantly inaccurate are not helpful.


----------



## EdmundGTP

Phass said:


> Kinda confused here ?? So mine is real isn't it ?? Or fake ??
> it has box and paper and all number are match..
> serial number , case number , movement number ,etc..
> the power reserve also work 3 days ..


I'll only say that from the pictures posted, I personally cannot say one way or the other, and in cases like this the inability to confirm that it's legit, more often than not, results in the assessment of "fake".

The only thing that blatantly stuck out to me was the lack of the hyphen in "TWENTY-NINE". HOROLOGIST007 and Korneevy must have much keener eyes when it comes to spotting fake PAM P900X movements than I do. If that is indeed a fake P9002 movement, it would be the first one I've ever seen (not saying they don't exist; just that I personally haven't seen any).

Let me first say that I don't intend to discredit or contradict HOROLOGIST and Korneevy's opinion, but am merely posting to further the conversation for my own information/education. I don't see how (from the pictures posted) that one can determine that the seconds wheel is non functional? The other characteristics which Korneevy mentions as fake give-away's, I can see in the picture, but just to play devil's advocate, they look to me like they just as easily be by-products of a grainy, under-lit, poorly-exposed picture. Again, not trying to start a row over it, just offering some conversation from my admittedly non-expert perspective.

Based on the last few pages I feel like I could post a picture of similarly poor quality of my own very-real 312 and have it denounced as fake.

Would it be possible to get some more pictures? Preferably sharp, well-lit, macro shots of the movement and escapement area? And also pictures of the box/paperwork/etc?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

EdmundGTP said:


> I'll only say that from the pictures posted, I personally cannot say one way or the other, and in cases like this the inability to confirm that it's legit, more often than not, results in the assessment of "fake".
> 
> The only thing that blatantly stuck out to me was the lack of the hyphen in "TWENTY-NINE". HOROLOGIST007 and Korneevy must have much keener eyes when it comes to spotting fake PAM P900X movements than I do. If that is indeed a fake P9002 movement, it would be the first one I've ever seen (not saying they don't exist; just that I personally haven't seen any).
> 
> Let me first say that I don't intend to discredit or contradict HOROLOGIST and Korneevy's opinion, but am merely posting to further the conversation for my own information/education. I don't see how (from the pictures posted) that one can determine that the seconds wheel is non functional? The other characteristics which Korneevy mentions as fake give-away's, I can see in the picture, but just to play devil's advocate, they look to me like they just as easily be by-products of a grainy, under-lit, poorly-exposed picture. Again, not trying to start a row over it, just offering some conversation from my admittedly non-expert perspective.
> 
> Based on the last few pages I feel like I could post a picture of similarly poor quality of my own very-real 312 and have it denounced as fake.
> 
> Would it be possible to get some more pictures? Preferably sharp, well-lit, macro shots of the movement and escapement area? And also pictures of the box/paperwork/etc?


The OPs watch is 100% fake - there is NO doubt to that.
You just do not know where to look (no insult intended), probably because you do not understand how a mechanical watch works. I am sure if you did you would understand immediately.

This is the second generation of fake 9000 series movements I have seen, and I actually own a third generation, its mighty close in "appearance" and very clever how its constructed.

I personally, have no intention to explain more and Korneevy has already practically spelled it out

OPs watch is fake and he knows it - wonder why he has not returned to comment on a watch he allegedly has been wearing for 5 years as genuine!


----------



## EdmundGTP

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> The OPs watch is 100% fake - there is NO doubt to that.
> You just do not know where to look (no insult intended), probably because you do not understand how a mechanical watch works. I am sure if you did you would understand immediately.
> 
> This is the second generation of fake 9000 series movements I have seen, and I actually own a third generation, its mighty close in "appearance" and very clever how its constructed.
> 
> I personally, have no intention to explain more and Korneevy has already practically spelled it out
> 
> OPs watch is fake and he knows it - wonder why he has not returned to comment on a watch he allegedly has been wearing for 5 years as genuine!


I know quite well how a mechanical watch functions, and am not discounting that the escape wheel and pallet fork area looks suspect in the photos, in that neither part can be distinguished. Just saying that from not being familiar with fakes of this movement, the quality of the photo (or lack thereof) doesn't do ME any favors in making a determination.

So thanks? I guess??

Suppose I'll have to do some research.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

EdmundGTP said:


> I know quite well how a mechanical watch functions, and am not discounting that the escape wheel and pallet fork area looks suspect in the photos, in that neither part can be distinguished. Just saying that from not being familiar with fakes of this movement, the quality of the photo (or lack thereof) doesn't do ME any favors in making a determination.
> 
> So thanks? I guess??
> 
> Suppose I'll have to do some research.


Yes, I guess.
A


----------



## Phass

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> The OPs watch is 100% fake - there is NO doubt to that.
> You just do not know where to look (no insult intended), probably because you do not understand how a mechanical watch works. I am sure if you did you would understand immediately.
> 
> This is the second generation of fake 9000 series movements I have seen, and I actually own a third generation, its mighty close in "appearance" and very clever how its constructed.
> 
> I personally, have no intention to explain more and Korneevy has already practically spelled it out
> 
> OPs watch is fake and he knows it - wonder why he has not returned to comment on a watch he allegedly has been wearing for 5 years as genuine!


hahha i thin'k my is genuine la broo...
impossible if fake the power reserve still can work 72 hours ....
maybe you know the fake can exist 72 hours ??
noob , kw ,h maker ??
i already check it out in the internet for pam 321 ... 
you know even it that time 2011 , the fake wasn't exist yet ....even exist they really bad...
i will post the paper .


----------



## Phass

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> The OPs watch is 100% fake - there is NO doubt to that.
> You just do not know where to look (no insult intended), probably because you do not understand how a mechanical watch works. I am sure if you did you would understand immediately.
> 
> This is the second generation of fake 9000 series movements I have seen, and I actually own a third generation, its mighty close in "appearance" and very clever how its constructed.
> 
> I personally, have no intention to explain more and Korneevy has already practically spelled it out
> 
> OPs watch is fake and he knows it - wonder why he has not returned to comment on a watch he allegedly has been wearing for 5 years as genuine!


hahha i thin'k my is genuine la broo...
impossible if fake the power reserve still can work 72 hours ....
maybe you know the fake can exist 72 hours ??
noob , kw ,h maker ??
i already check it out in the internet for pam 321 ... 
you know even it that time 2011 , the fake wasn't exist yet ....even exist they really bad...
i will post the paper .


----------



## Phass

EdmundGTP said:


> I'll only say that from the pictures posted, I personally cannot say one way or the other, and in cases like this the inability to confirm that it's legit, more often than not, results in the assessment of "fake".
> 
> The only thing that blatantly stuck out to me was the lack of the hyphen in "TWENTY-NINE". HOROLOGIST007 and Korneevy must have much keener eyes when it comes to spotting fake PAM P900X movements than I do. If that is indeed a fake P9002 movement, it would be the first one I've ever seen (not saying they don't exist; just that I personally haven't seen any).
> 
> Let me first say that I don't intend to discredit or contradict HOROLOGIST and Korneevy's opinion, but am merely posting to further the conversation for my own information/education. I don't see how (from the pictures posted) that one can determine that the seconds wheel is non functional? The other characteristics which Korneevy mentions as fake give-away's, I can see in the picture, but just to play devil's advocate, they look to me like they just as easily be by-products of a grainy, under-lit, poorly-exposed picture. Again, not trying to start a row over it, just offering some conversation from my admittedly non-expert perspective.
> 
> Based on the last few pages I feel like I could post a picture of similarly poor quality of my own very-real 312 and have it denounced as fake.
> 
> Would it be possible to get some more pictures? Preferably sharp, well-lit, macro shots of the movement and escapement area? And also pictures of the box/paperwork/etc?


all number are correct


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



Phass said:


> all number are correct


Look, there are no "bust the fakes" authorised dealer courses, no one here is getting paid for "authenticating" stuff online by grainy photos. You asked for opinions - everyone has them. People provided you with detailed feedback as to why they think what they think, in their own spare time, based on the info you made available (two very bad pictures), and with the best intentions. You can agree, disagree on ignore it - it's all good, and it's your money, after all. I don't want to sound rude but if you knew all you are claiming to know, why bother coming here 6 years after the fact and asking? Take it to Panerai for service and show the service receipts after - that's your only iron clad proof. Rest is fluff, and you know it. Good luck


----------



## MitchCope

Hi all,

Have been watching this one on eBay:

Panerai Luminor Marina PAM 111 Stainless Steel 44mm Mens Manual Watch PAM00111

Ends today. No box or papers, which is always concerning? I note he also has 441 for sale, also no box or papers.
Pics of the watch seem legit to my eye though.

That's probably what worries me most. Seems hard to lose boxes and papers for 2 watches...

Thoughts?


----------



## korneevy

MitchCope said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Have been watching this one on eBay:
> 
> Panerai Luminor Marina PAM 111 Stainless Steel 44mm Mens Manual Watch PAM00111
> 
> Ends today. No box or papers, which is always concerning? I note he also has 441 for sale, also no box or papers.
> Pics of the watch seem legit to my eye though.
> 
> That's probably what worries me most. Seems hard to lose boxes and papers for 2 watches...
> 
> Thoughts?


Why risk spending 4K on a (suspicious) watch based on really bad photos? You'll find plenty of these with full set for a few hundred more any day of the week on CHRONO24.


----------



## MitchCope

Thanks, I've been over the other sites for ages looking. The thing is, I'm in Sydney, as is the watch. That sold for AU$4,100 (US$3,100) making it good buying should it be genuine, and cheap because of the lack of box.

I missed the auction regardless, but it piqued my curiosity...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

MitchCope said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Have been watching this one on eBay:
> 
> Panerai Luminor Marina PAM 111 Stainless Steel 44mm Mens Manual Watch PAM00111
> 
> Ends today. No box or papers, which is always concerning? I note he also has 441 for sale, also no box or papers.
> Pics of the watch seem legit to my eye though.
> 
> That's probably what worries me most. Seems hard to lose boxes and papers for 2 watches...
> 
> Thoughts?


The movement photos are not clear and straight on.
But from what I can see - its a fake.
I certainly would not recommend buying it based on what I can see.
I am 95% sure its fake
A


----------



## MitchCope

Thanks mate. 

I had a gut feeling, so often turns out to be the case!

Appreciate your feedback.

Cheers


----------



## Wlover

You cannot claim to be an expert of genuine panerai just by owning a fake watch yourself.

How can you claim the OP's watch (which is genuine) to be 100% fake without any doubt by comparing it to your fake watch?

I find this totally absurd......

Can someone report this to the admin pls?



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> The OPs watch is 100% fake - there is NO doubt to that.
> You just do not know where to look (no insult intended), probably because you do not understand how a mechanical watch works. I am sure if you did you would understand immediately.
> 
> This is the second generation of fake 9000 series movements I have seen, and I actually own a third generation, its mighty close in "appearance" and very clever how its constructed.
> 
> I personally, have no intention to explain more and Korneevy has already practically spelled it out
> 
> OPs watch is fake and he knows it - wonder why he has not returned to comment on a watch he allegedly has been wearing for 5 years as genuine!


----------



## onlinelion

Firstly, thanks to everyone on this forum that takes the time to look at these posts.

Please have a look at mine and let me know what you think, it's no box papers, but it is an F series. And looks like a PAM 111 to me (with a rarer painted dial and decorated movement).

Please pardon the clear sticker on the back.

Watch feels legit and winds very nicely. I think it's the real deal, but wanted to check with the experts first.

Thank you again.


----------



## korneevy

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



onlinelion said:


> Firstly, thanks to everyone on this forum that takes the time to look at these posts.
> 
> Please have a look at mine and let me know what you think, it's no box papers, but it is an F series. And looks like a PAM 111 to me (with a rarer painted dial and decorated movement).
> 
> Please pardon the clear sticker on the back.
> 
> Watch feels legit and winds very nicely. I think it's the real deal, but wanted to check with the experts first.
> 
> Thank you again.
> 
> View attachment 12396277
> View attachment 12396281
> View attachment 12396283


I'll share my views - but pls don't call me "an expert" cause there is no such thing.

The dial and case look ok, movement does not scream "fake" as well..but, with the fear that am going to sound like a broken record: personally I would never buy it. Put it simply, an ETA Panerai without papers =risk of spending your hard earned money on a useless $300 piece of garbage. Why would anyone take that risk, willingly?

Just for the record - there are "modded" ETA fakes out there that even a Panerai boutique will have a very hard time telling, and you don't need to have a secret code to find them, do a google search, it's out there in the open, shockingly close to the real deal.

So unless you can open the case back and do a proper close up on the swan neck and on ETA codes stamped under the balance wheel, that could give you say 50-60% confidence... without this, looking at low res iphone photos it is almost like shooting in the dark... sure most obvious stuff on cheap fakes can be picked out, but more "advanced work" - no bloody way.

If you insist on getting this one, make sure can buy it subject to authentication, then send it in for service with Panerai and that's the only way to find out for sure.

Ask yourself though - do you really need all that trouble and headache in your life, all for the sake of getting a watch a few hundred dollars cheaper than it would cost for a full set with service history from a good dealer? I know what my answer would be, every time. You are already ready to drop $4K on this totally unnecessary, discretionary item, will it kill you to wait up another month or two and save $500-$800 more so to get into a deal where you know exactly what you've bought and don't need to go to internet "experts" for their useless validation? Just a thought.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

onlinelion said:


> Firstly, thanks to everyone on this forum that takes the time to look at these posts.
> 
> Please have a look at mine and let me know what you think, it's no box papers, but it is an F series. And looks like a PAM 111 to me (with a rarer painted dial and decorated movement).
> 
> Please pardon the clear sticker on the back.
> 
> Watch feels legit and winds very nicely. I think it's the real deal, but wanted to check with the experts first.
> 
> Thank you again.
> 
> View attachment 12396277
> View attachment 12396281
> View attachment 12396283


*In my opinion, based on those photos the watch is genuine.
It passes all the known issues, and i can see no glaring problem
GENUINE
Adam*


----------



## handwound

Wlover said:


> You cannot claim to be an expert of genuine panerai just by owning a fake watch yourself.
> 
> How can you claim the OP's watch (which is genuine) to be 100% fake without any doubt by comparing it to your fake watch?
> 
> I find this totally absurd......
> 
> Can someone report this to the admin pls?


This thread is for *OPINIONS* on whether a watch is genuine or not.

No one here is an expert and anyone could be wrong.

There have been no rules violations, yet, but I will reiterate that discussing replica watches is absolutely not allowed on these forums.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## onlinelion

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Thanks for the advice. Even if the watch is real, peace of mind does not come with it.....



korneevy said:


> I'll share my views - but pls don't call me "an expert" cause there is no such thing.
> 
> The dial and case look ok, movement does not scream "fake" as well..but, with the fear that am going to sound like a broken record: personally I would never buy it. Put it simply, an ETA Panerai without papers =risk of spending your hard earned money on a useless $300 piece of garbage. Why would anyone take that risk, willingly?
> 
> Just for the record - there are "modded" ETA fakes out there that even a Panerai boutique will have a very hard time telling, and you don't need to have a secret code to find them, do a google search, it's out there in the open, shockingly close to the real deal.
> 
> So unless you can open the case back and do a proper close up on the swan neck and on ETA codes stamped under the balance wheel, that could give you say 50-60% confidence... without this, looking at low res iphone photos it is almost like shooting in the dark... sure most obvious stuff on cheap fakes can be picked out, but more "advanced work" - no bloody way.
> 
> If you insist on getting this one, make sure can buy it subject to authentication, then send it in for service with Panerai and that's the only way to find out for sure.
> 
> Ask yourself though - do you really need all that trouble and headache in your life, all for the sake of getting a watch a few hundred dollars cheaper than it would cost for a full set with service history from a good dealer? I know what my answer would be, every time. You are already ready to drop $4K on this totally unnecessary, discretionary item, will it kill you to wait up another month or two and save $500-$800 more so to get into a deal where you know exactly what you've bought and don't need to go to internet "experts" for their useless validation? Just a thought.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## onlinelion

Thanks for looking...it sure looks real to me too.



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> *In my opinion, based on those photos the watch is genuine.
> It passes all the known issues, and i can see no glaring problem
> GENUINE
> Adam*


----------



## godzilla.r35.gtr

guys help please. need legit check on this watch. It has box and all the papers but I know that doesn't really prove anything. appreciate all the inputs. Thanks.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

godzilla.r35.gtr said:


> guys help please. need legit check on this watch. It has box and all the papers but I know that doesn't really prove anything. appreciate all the inputs. Thanks.
> View attachment 12405217
> View attachment 12405219
> View attachment 12405221
> View attachment 12405223
> View attachment 12405225
> View attachment 12405227
> View attachment 12405229
> View attachment 12405231
> View attachment 12405233
> View attachment 12405235
> View attachment 12405237


ALL GENUINE in my opinion.
Looks good
adam


----------



## godzilla.r35.gtr

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ALL GENUINE in my opinion.
> Looks good
> adam


ok. thank you sir!


----------



## supersnout

Now you gotta share how much he's asking for it!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## bernd1972

Phass said:


> View attachment 12386693


While thast one has been caled out for beein fake it seems to me that this one is authentic. There are some deteils the fake manufacturers just don´t get right when it comes to movements. This looks correct to me. Those fellows who considerred it beein fake are welcome to correct me and point out the one detail I did not notice. Anyway, I noticed that some members here are quite competent, yet still sometimes to fast with calling "fake" while several fakes got away with thumbs up in the past...


----------



## SAWESQ88

looking for advise on this one. Bought it at a jeweler in NY based on a listing on Ebay. They have a solid history and many reviews. Have watches on their site significantly more expensive so I took the leap. Paid 4k for it so while it was a good deal it wasn't a give away. I have had it looked at by my local jeweler and submitted it to Crown & Caliber assuming if they made an offer it was authentic. My jeweler put an insurance value of 7k on it and I did receive an offer from C&C so I believe it to be real. This is my first Panerai although I have owned and currently own other luxury watches (Cartier, Breitling, Omega, Ulysse Nardin) and it has the feel of a high end watch. I have done extensive research on the band and watch itself and everything seems to be legit. Please give me some feedback. If the overall opinion is "fake" I will send it to Panerai for them to have a look. Thanks,


----------



## SAWESQ88

View attachment 12506249
View attachment 12506251
View attachment 12506253
View attachment 12506255
View attachment 12506257
View attachment 12506261


----------



## SAWESQ88

View attachment 12506257


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

SAWESQ88 said:


> View attachment 12506249
> View attachment 12506251
> View attachment 12506253
> View attachment 12506255
> View attachment 12506257
> View attachment 12506261


No signs on that dial side as fake.
Please post photos of back


----------



## SAWESQ88




----------



## T1meout

Nowadays counterfeit quality is at a level that they can't simply be distinguished from authentic by their exterior look. You'll have to remove the case back and post pictures of the movement for knowledgeable members to be able to authenticate it.


----------



## SAWESQ88

T1meout said:


> Nowadays counterfeit quality is at a level that they can't simply be distinguished from authentic by their exterior look. You'll have to remove the case back and post pictures of the movement for knowledgeable members to be able to authenticate it.


How does one go about removing the case back?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

T1meout said:


> Nowadays counterfeit quality is at a level that they can't simply be distinguished from authentic by their exterior look. You'll have to remove the case back and post pictures of the movement for knowledgeable members to be able to authenticate it.


In general I agree, but I am 99.9% sure that piece is genuine.
The fakes do not have that final case and crown guard quality.

I am pretty sure that watch is the genuine piece
adam


----------



## abhis54

Guys opinion on this please, is this the real deal?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

abhis54 said:


> Guys opinion on this please, is this the real deal?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My opinion = FAKE


----------



## SAWESQ88

T1meout said:


> Nowadays counterfeit quality is at a level that they can't simply be distinguished from authentic by their exterior look. You'll have to remove the case back and post pictures of the movement for knowledgeable members to be able to authenticate it.


----------



## SAWESQ88

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> In general I agree, but I am 99.9% sure that piece is genuine.
> The fakes do not have that final case and crown guard quality.
> 
> I am pretty sure that watch is the genuine piece
> adam


Thanks for your feedback already. Here is a picture of the movement. When I took it to my watch guy he immediately said "cool, been awhile since I've seen one of these that is real".


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

SAWESQ88 said:


> Thanks for your feedback already. Here is a picture of the movement. When I took it to my watch guy he immediately said "cool, been awhile since I've seen one of these that is real".
> View attachment 12508189


GENUINE
ENJOY


----------



## cb1111

What is interesting are the differences between the two watch movements directly above. A direct comparison of the quality of finishes clearly demonstrates the differences.


----------



## Toolflab

I just purchased this Panerai PAM 090 from a guy on eBay. It feels great, although there are a few things that make me question its authenticity, I desperately need help to authenticate this in case I have been ripped off! The points which raise concern for me:

1 - The dealer stamp. On the warranty card I cannot find any information about this french panerai dealer.
2 - The lug screws. They seem much more set-in than my previous panerai which were flush with the surface
3 - The date window. It doesn't seem to have much magnification
4 - The crown guard. There is no roller bearing in the lever (although I know some dont have them). Also, the lever seems to only minimally compress the crown. It barley moves, whereas my other panerai the crown is almost sprung, and moves considerably when the lever is actuated. 
5 - The strap. The branding on the inside is so shallow I think this is an aftermarket strap, but why would a genuine watch come with a fake strap (nothing else was included in the sale, just this strap).

Please any advise would be greatly appreciated. Photos attached for reference.


----------



## T1meout

With all due respect, but these are questions you should have sought answers to before you bought the watch. What happened to doing your due diligence before pulling the trigger? Given you couldn't be bothered, why should we?


----------



## Toolflab

Before purchasing I had limited photos. I was not able to see any of the suspect point I pointed out above. I purchased it with eBay/Paypal from a seller with good feedback so at first I had nothing to doubt and knew it was a safe purchase as I am covered with buyers protection with Paypal. It was only possible for me to notice these points once I could have a very close look at the watch. All the photos above (excluding the final photo) was taken by myself. Given your post count I’m sure you can understand that sometimes it is almost impossible tell a fake from a genuine on photos alone. If you have any comments you wish to note on the above watch please do let me know.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I think the OP6556 is the PAM 90
That uses a ETA 7750, which yours movement is
BUT
The Rotor looks INcorrectly decorated for an OPIX caliber
Worth getting it checked
That said otherwise it looks good!


----------



## Liam Mango Jackson

Hi all, I started a thread, but only one person got back to me saying this is fake, however a jeweller (not a AD) is saying it's real and the man who's selling it is adamant it's genuine. Please help, liam





































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ridley

Hi

The above is fake.


----------



## T1meout

ridley said:


> Hi
> 
> The above is fake.


I told him so.
There is so much wrong with the movement I wouldn't even know where to begin pointing out all the flaws. Any jeweler who claims it's genuine is either in on the scam or an ignoramus.


----------



## Liam Mango Jackson

Again, thank you both. I just added it to this thread as only one person answered and it’s always good for confirmation! 

You have just saved me £3000! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Liam Mango Jackson said:


> Hi all, I started a thread, but only one person got back to me saying this is fake, however a jeweller (not a AD) is saying it's real and the man who's selling it is adamant it's genuine. Please help, liam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


FAKE! CONFIRMED


----------



## njay24

Have a panerai I would like verified, unfortunately post count doesn't allow to post links


----------



## njay24

Hi would the attached be real or fake

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Panerai-...093850?hash=item4d63567b5a:g:cdEAAOSwRjtZumUt

Back of the watch matches certificate numbers

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

njay24 said:


> Hi would the attached be real or fake
> 
> Panerai Luminor PAM112 PAM00112 | eBay
> 
> Back of the watch matches certificate numbers
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk


Everything points to genuine
Just get confirmation that all paperwork ties up
adam


----------



## mr_linux

New to the forum and new to the Panerai brand. Authentication would be greatly appreciated for the following. Thanks.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Needs better photos of the movement, especially balance wheel
a


----------



## mr_linux

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Needs better photos of the movement, especially balance wheel
> a


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

mr_linux said:


> View attachment 12576467


All looks good
ENJOY
a


----------



## mr_linux

Thank you so much for taking the time to review my post. I'm extremely grateful.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

mr_linux said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time to review my post. I'm extremely grateful.


PLEASURE
ENJOY
a


----------



## akakai

I am looking to buy a pam111, please help me authenticate. thank you.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

akakai said:


> I am looking to buy a pam111, please help me authenticate. thank you.
> View attachment 12577993
> View attachment 12577995
> View attachment 12577997
> View attachment 12578001
> View attachment 12578005


ALL looks 100% perfect to me
No red flags!


----------



## Huttfuzz

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Same here. Reputable seller. All box and papers matching. (aftermark strap). Sorry for crappy pictures.


----------



## Huttfuzz

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

More


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Huttfuzz said:


> More


Crappy photos. Can not tell anything


----------



## Huttfuzz

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Crappy photos. Can not tell anything


Trying! Sorry!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Huttfuzz said:


> Trying! Sorry!


No issues there


----------



## Huttfuzz

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> No issues there


Thank you sir for your time.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Huttfuzz said:


> Thank you sir for your time.


pleasure


----------



## akakai

Thank you, really appreciate it. I looked up the serial too, it matches purchase date of 2006.


HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ALL looks 100% perfect to me
> No red flags!


----------



## SAWESQ88

After posting on here for feedback, I went ahead and sent my piece in to be serviced. Panerai Service Center confirmed that the piece was real. Thank you all again for the advice. I just wanted to follow up so that those members who stated it was authentic knew for sure that they were right.


----------



## ZoomVT

Hello, been lurking for a while. Can you tell me if you see anything that would lead you to believe it may not be authentic?

https://imgur.com/7vwbaYs.jpg

https://imgur.com/EHxC8Sc.jpg

https://imgur.com/Yhh7B03.jpg

https://imgur.com/fALvUcd.jpg

I do not have any pictures of the movement.


----------



## korneevy

ZoomVT said:


> Hello, been lurking for a while. Can you tell me if you see anything that would lead you to believe it may not be authentic?
> 
> https://imgur.com/7vwbaYs.jpg
> 
> https://imgur.com/EHxC8Sc.jpg
> 
> https://imgur.com/Yhh7B03.jpg
> 
> https://imgur.com/fALvUcd.jpg
> 
> I do not have any pictures of the movement.


Best if you come back when you get the pictures of the movement. You can also do us all a favour and embed the photos in your future posts.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ZoomVT said:


> Hello, been lurking for a while. Can you tell me if you see anything that would lead you to believe it may not be authentic?
> 
> https://imgur.com/7vwbaYs.jpg
> 
> https://imgur.com/EHxC8Sc.jpg
> 
> https://imgur.com/Yhh7B03.jpg
> 
> https://imgur.com/fALvUcd.jpg
> 
> I do not have any pictures of the movement.


Mmm
Hard to say either way.
BUT I am going 60% fake versus 40% chance to be genuine
a


----------



## HonzaH

Hi! I found this online deal and would like to make sure its real. if the pictures are not good enough I could ask for more. thank you


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

HonzaH said:


> Hi! I found this online deal and would like to make sure its real. if the pictures are not good enough I could ask for more. thank you
> View attachment 12638667
> View attachment 12638669
> View attachment 12638671
> View attachment 12638673


We need a clear and close up photo of balance wheel AND escape wheel, to check.
The P9000/1 is HEAVILY faked


----------



## HonzaH

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> We need a clear and close up photo of balance wheel AND escape wheel, to check.
> The P9000/1 is HEAVILY faked


Thank you, will ask for it.


----------



## ghinchcl

Hi all does this watch look real. Does to me but I am no expert. Thanks https://m.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Lumi...7552327?txnId=850008350025#vi__app-cvip-panel


----------



## ghinchcl

Here are some pictures. Please let me know your thoughts. I think it is real and have no reason to believe not to. But I am no expert.


----------



## T1meout

Bab pictures, beget bad advice.


----------



## ghinchcl

T1meout said:


> Bab pictures, beget bad advice.


Thanks have asked skew for some better pictures and close ups. All the number and the case seem to checkout with other authentic ones of this style. Will send the pictures once I get them

i think it is real but want to check with some experts on the forum"


----------



## ar7iste

Hello!

The Panerai crown guard pointing down is interesting. I don't think many models are like this. The PAM 125 definitely has a crown guard pointing up though. It feels like fake just based on that.
Only some chrono models, and some models staying true to their original pieces will have crown down (PAM 127, PAM 217, PAM 368 for example).

Hope this helps,
A.


----------



## Synequano

217 and 368 has crown lever pointing up,127 do have it upside down

It's actually easy to flip though...as the CG and the screws are symmetrical


----------



## ghinchcl

Thanks all I passed on that watch too many red flags and paperwork did not line up. I just made a deal with a jewler in NY for the attached. I think it is 100% legit and thing that says it's not?

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pa...stainless-auto-watch--id6919201.htm?showAll=1


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ghinchcl said:


> Thanks all I passed on that watch too many red flags and paperwork did not line up. I just made a deal with a jewler in NY for the attached. I think it is 100% legit and thing that says it's not?
> 
> https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pa...stainless-auto-watch--id6919201.htm?showAll=1


Yep
That looks safer and better
a


----------



## ghinchcl

Thanks


----------



## ar7iste

Synequano said:


> 217 and 368 has crown lever pointing up,127 do have it upside down
> 
> It's actually easy to flip though...as the CG and the screws are symmetrical


You're right, the 368 does have the crown lever pointing up, my mistake. I'm pretty sure the 217 has a crown lever pointing down though (panerai source agrees too).



ghinchcl said:


> Thanks all I passed on that watch too many red flags and paperwork did not line up. I just made a deal with a jewler in NY for the attached. I think it is 100% legit and thing that says it's not?
> 
> https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pa...stainless-auto-watch--id6919201.htm?showAll=1


Chrono24 trusted sellers are usually very safe options. Enjoy your watch!!


----------



## davidbrown

Hi looking for advice please have purchased an 00111 on proviso it can go back, been guaranteed it's authentic would like more advice please, apologies for poor photos, gonna have to get a better camera!. The watch was purchased with all boxes cardboard, black box, wooden box and black cloth covering plus screwdriver, spare rubber strap, also cleaning cloth and COSC certificate dated 15/4/2013 also copy of receipt from Brahmfeld & Gutruf jewellers in Hamburg Germany. But no instruction manual. Many thanks in advance my first Panerai purchase and really excited about it just need to make sure before wearing it.


----------



## ghinchcl

Thanks


----------



## bigclive2011

This one on EBay definetly wasn't but still went for £2300!!

A seller user name ctexcyro_6 with 0 feedback apparently from Dallas in the US, advertised a fake Panerai 382 with a blatantly fake box, no papers, and managed to get 61 bids up to £2300.

i reported this item but E Bay did not remove it.

Caveat emptor!! If it looks too good to be true then it is!!

Watch out for this 382 as it may reappear, the serial number displayed was 227/1000, and the movement was def wrong.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

davidbrown said:


> Hi looking for advice please have purchased an 00111 on proviso it can go back, been guaranteed it's authentic would like more advice please, apologies for poor photos, gonna have to get a better camera!. The watch was purchased with all boxes cardboard, black box, wooden box and black cloth covering plus screwdriver, spare rubber strap, also cleaning cloth and COSC certificate dated 15/4/2013 also copy of receipt from Brahmfeld & Gutruf jewellers in Hamburg Germany. But no instruction manual. Many thanks in advance my first Panerai purchase and really excited about it just need to make sure before wearing it.


This looks all good to me
Enjoy
adam


----------



## davidbrown

Horologist007, many thanks for replying and big weight of my shoulders, looked good to me but needed expert assurance. Going to get worn and enjoyed now, bring it on!


----------



## DStauffer

Hey all, new to the forum. I picked up a piece I have been looking at for three years, the Pam 212 1950 Flyback J series.

I picked it up used with all the standard documents (cosc, warranty card, barcode sticker) all with matching serial numbers.

No reason not trust the seller, but just trying to do my due diligence as this piece was not cheap.

I've done all the searching I can do on the internet and as far as I can tell this piece is legit, but I wanted to run it by anyone here.

Thanks in advance


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

DStauffer said:


> Hey all, new to the forum. I picked up a piece I have been looking at for three years, the Pam 212 1950 Flyback J series.
> 
> I picked it up used with all the standard documents (cosc, warranty card, barcode sticker) all with matching serial numbers.
> 
> No reason not trust the seller, but just trying to do my due diligence as this piece was not cheap.
> 
> I've done all the searching I can do on the internet and as far as I can tell this piece is legit, but I wanted to run it by anyone here.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> View attachment 12709753
> 
> View attachment 12709761
> View attachment 12709763
> 
> View attachment 12709767
> View attachment 12709767
> [/
> QUOTE]
> 
> Firstly does thev flyback function actually work i,e Start-->Stop-->return to zero AND----->RESTARTS IMMEDIATELYwith 1 button push?
> 
> That said your watch looks genuine.
> a


----------



## DStauffer

Thank you very much for the reply, I should have noted that the watch functions precisely as it should. The flyback function works perfectly and resets and restarts immediately when pushing the 4 position button while the chrono is engaged.


----------



## borchard929

I want To Believe This Is Real
https://tulsa.craigslist.org/jwl/d/new-panerai-luminor-marina/6402431393.html

First, I do NOT know much about real vs fake panerai.
Can someone help me with an opinion as to whether this is real? Or just too good to be true?
Guy, or girl, is selling it for $1500
View attachment 12711209
View attachment 12711211


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

borchard929 said:


> I want To Believe This Is Real
> https://tulsa.craigslist.org/jwl/d/new-panerai-luminor-marina/6402431393.html
> 
> First, I do NOT know much about real vs fake panerai.
> Can someone help me with an opinion as to whether this is real? Or just too good to be true?
> Guy, or girl, is selling it for $1500
> View attachment 12711209
> View attachment 12711211


Can not tell from those photos, but lug screw sticking out is not a good sign
Nor is$1500 combined with CraigList = WALK


----------



## borchard929

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Can not tell from those photos, but lug screw sticking out is not a good sign
> Nor is$1500 combined with CraigList = WALK


Just for fun I emailed the guy saying I was interested. But, I asked him if he would open the back and take a picture of the movement. I also asked him what happened to the crown guard? This is his response:

"I got this watch as a gift. .You're more than welcome to come look at it but I'm not taking it apart. .Thank you"

Yeah...right lol

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## edvinasi

Hello, i am new here, need help with authentication, I want to buy a watch, but i need help to determinate if its genuine or not. The seller claims he bought it 5 years ago second hand without documents and its original. Thank you


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

edvinasi said:


> Hello, i am new here, need help with authentication, I want to buy a watch, but i need help to determinate if its genuine or not. The seller claims he bought it 5 years ago second hand without documents and its original. Thank you
> 
> View attachment 12712455
> 
> View attachment 12712457
> 
> View attachment 12712461
> 
> View attachment 12712465
> 
> View attachment 12712467
> 
> View attachment 12712469
> 
> View attachment 12712471


Pretty sure FAKE

4 points strongly point to FAKE
Lets see the balance wheel, watch should have a ETA 7753

So FAKE to me

Adam


----------



## Synequano

The bracelet looks off,I think back then the bracelet links are all rounded like the CG instead of rounded then flat towards the clasps area


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Synequano said:


> The bracelet looks off,I think back then the bracelet links are all rounded like the CG instead of rounded then flat towards the clasps area


Thats the least of his worries LOL


----------



## edvinasi

The seller states its 7753 valjuox movement


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

edvinasi said:


> The seller states its 7753 valjuox movement


Well it dont look it to me
Ask for a clear photo of the balance wheel area, it should be stamped ETA and also 7753.

Personally, that and a few other things concern me, act with caution

A


----------



## Synequano

I just mention that,I do agree that the movt looks suspicious and seems like the seller is intentionally covering the balance wheel with the rotor...


----------



## timgroth

Hey guys,

i just got a new Panerai 111 K-Series from 2009 with all the boxes and paperworks, which looks fine to me.
But as there is a screw (crown wheel) which looks a bit bad quality and strange to me, i want you to please check if it's ok.
































































Thanks a lot and have a great sunday!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

timgroth said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> i just got a new Panerai 111 K-Series from 2009 with all the boxes and paperworks, which looks fine to me.
> But as there is a screw (crown wheel) which looks a bit bad quality and strange to me, i want you to please check if it's ok.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot and have a great sunday!


Watch is genuine, I am confident to that.
Both the crown and ratchet wheel do look a bit odd (maybe changed in a service)
That said I am sure itys all good
a


----------



## HonzaH

Here is a Pam 005 I am planning to see tomorrow. I am not 100% sure if its real. If it pass this test, I will ask the owner to open it as well to make sure. The watch comes with papers as well. Thank you for your time


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

HonzaH said:


> Here is a Pam 005 I am planning to see tomorrow. I am not 100% sure if its real. If it pass this test, I will ask the owner to open it as well to make sure. The watch comes with papers as well. Thank you for your time
> 
> View attachment 12725921
> 
> View attachment 12725923
> 
> View attachment 12725925
> 
> View attachment 12725929
> 
> View attachment 12725931
> 
> View attachment 12725933


I am 95% sure its genuine, but 5% concern based on condition and crown guard pin.
Do the papers and COSC papers tie up to serial number?

As I say, I am 95% happy, but probably would want to check movement

Adam


----------



## HonzaH

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I am 95% sure its genuine, but 5% concern based on condition and crown guard pin.
> Do the papers and COSC papers tie up to serial number?
> 
> As I say, I am 95% happy, but probably would want to check movement
> 
> Adam


Adam, thank you for getting back so fast to me.

The numbers on the tags match the serial of the watch. The COSC I am not sure. Will check tomorrow. I would like to check the movement as well.

The person who has it for sale is the original owner and mentioned that the watch got some beating as you can see he did no lie


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

HonzaH said:


> Adam, thank you for getting back so fast to me.
> 
> The numbers on the tags match the serial of the watch. The COSC I am not sure. Will check tomorrow. I would like to check the movement as well.
> 
> The person who has it for sale is the original owner and mentioned that the watch got some beating as you can see he did no lie


Movement is a caliber OP II, should look like this:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=P...UICygC&biw=1366&bih=637#imgrc=4iNrz0CpkglaTM:

Check COSC papers too.

Good Luck
a


----------



## HonzaH

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Movement is a caliber OP II, should look like this:
> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=P...UICygC&biw=1366&bih=637#imgrc=4iNrz0CpkglaTM:
> 
> Check COSC papers too.
> 
> Good Luck
> a










thanks for the analysis. Met with the original owner and all the paperwork line up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## havingfun

Hello,

Is this Panerai fake or real? There are no boxes or paperwork, but is there anything on the watch itself that would show if it's real or fake? Thanks.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

havingfun said:


> Hello,
> 
> Is this Panerai fake or real? There are no boxes or paperwork, but is there anything on the watch itself that would show if it's real or fake? Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 12734239
> 
> 
> View attachment 12734243


FAKE JUNK
adam


----------



## havingfun

Based on it's origins, I thought so, but since they're apparently a """rich""" family back home I thought maybe... thanks for the confirmation.


----------



## limsum

Is this panerai 112 real? Someone's offering this to me for a really low price.


----------



## limsum




----------



## HOROLOGIST007

THe PAM 112 uses the Caliber OPX based on ETA (UNITAS) 6497.
I can not tell anything from your photos, BUT the OP X movement is not usually decorated??
Adam


----------



## Synequano

What's the year number on that 112? Usually pre H year (which looks like it is) do have graffiti movements and painted dial with L Swiss L underneath...

If it's really from kame kichi,it's a legit dealer in Japan


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Synequano said:


> What's the year number on that 112? Usually pre H year (which looks like it is) do have graffiti movements and painted dial with L Swiss L underneath...
> 
> If it's really from kame kichi,it's a legit dealer in Japan


THat makes sense, BUT I would not purchase anything based on those photos.
We can not see any details
A


----------



## limsum

Synequano said:


> What's the year number on that 112? Usually pre H year (which looks like it is) do have graffiti movements and painted dial with L Swiss L underneath...
> 
> If it's really from kame kichi,it's a legit dealer in Japan


It says the warranty was dated 2003. It was sold for 1000USD though at the Yahoo Japan Auctions.


----------



## Synequano

112E (2003) is the first year of 112,the watch has different movt,dial and the whole crown + CG set (the CG is polished but the lever is brushed)

However those pics supplied do not convince me to even drop my hard earned $1k on it....


----------



## Notorious972

$1K ? Seems too good to be true. 
Be careful !


----------



## rysonn

Too good to be true....right?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-condi...886980?hash=item3d57505304:g:s9kAAOSwqfZaaWOK

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Lu...172779?hash=item4415c782ab:g:Y8UAAOSwdTJaaYOo

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-31...050152?hash=item3aff1acee8:g:~3sAAOSwFLBaaXvx

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Officine-P...524002?hash=item1a41e2ac62:g:LF8AAOSwxOFaaVLi

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Lu...516877&hash=item3d574e4d93:g:jYcAAOSw~o5aaU-r


----------



## Notorious972

rysonn said:


> Too good to be true....right?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-condi...886980?hash=item3d57505304:g:s9kAAOSwqfZaaWOK
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Lu...172779?hash=item4415c782ab:g:Y8UAAOSwdTJaaYOo
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-31...050152?hash=item3aff1acee8:g:~3sAAOSwFLBaaXvx
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Officine-P...524002?hash=item1a41e2ac62:g:LF8AAOSwxOFaaVLi
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Lu...516877&hash=item3d574e4d93:g:jYcAAOSw~o5aaU-r


Sellers with 0 sale ?!! No way I could buy anything from them !!!
Would you sell a Panerai for less than $1000 on eBay ? 
Don't you think you could find a buyer anywhere in your neighbouthood at this price ?

You may be lucky, but Be careful.


----------



## cb1111

Notorious972 said:


> Sellers with 0 sale ?!! No way I could buy anything from them !!!
> Would you sell a Panerai for less than $1000 on eBay ?
> Don't you think you could find a buyer anywhere in your neighbouthood at this price ?
> 
> You may be lucky, but Be careful.


No, you won't be lucky - you'll get taken.

Several of the watches are obvious fakes, the others are either fake or not the watches that will be shipped. Hard to say with the bad pictures. One of the sellers has previously listed a fake Omega.


----------



## rysonn

Yea I am totally steering clear. Was telling my wife if I thought they were real I would buy all of them. The resale would be at least 3 times that for each of them.


----------



## Whale

Hello Panerai lovers !
Can anyone help me with this one? ( Sales offer includes original box, but not papers...)
Thank you nad regards !!!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Useless photos
Please give a clear non blurred last photo from above showing clealy straight on balance wheel.
A


----------



## Whale

How about this one?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Hi
This is a different movement???? look at the position of regulator - its a different watch!

HOWEVER
From the photos it does* not* look genuine, so please post a clear photo or proceed with caution.

A


----------



## Whale

Yes, this is the same watch. Regulator is in odd position too me as well... There is no Panerai AD in my Town, so it's a tough situation indeed.
I'll try to put some better pictures later.
Thanks anyway, 
Mark


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Whale said:


> Yes, this is the same watch. Regulator is in odd position too me as well... There is no Panerai AD in my Town, so it's a tough situation indeed.
> I'll try to put some better pictures later.
> Thanks anyway,
> Mark


Mark
The two photos have the regulator in a different position - is it loose (fake)
In 1st photo its centered, in the last photo its hard to the left!


----------



## notional

After checking out this thread, you all have me looking at Panerai's on the Bay. Came across this one which seems very 'funny', but I don't know enough about this base model to know if this is real or not. I'm not interested in buying yet, but gathering knowledge before my purchase. Here it is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Pa...639555?hash=item1a424f3f83:g:anUAAOSwi4laa4pz Seems hinky that nothing else is included, and when comparing this dial to other known real dial images, it doesn't feel right. Thoughts from the experts? Thanks! Pj


----------



## Synequano

Even the movement looks off on that ebay 000


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

notional said:


> After checking out this thread, you all have me looking at Panerai's on the Bay. Came across this one which seems very 'funny', but I don't know enough about this base model to know if this is real or not. I'm not interested in buying yet, but gathering knowledge before my purchase. Here it is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Pa...639555?hash=item1a424f3f83:g:anUAAOSwi4laa4pz Seems hinky that nothing else is included, and when comparing this dial to other known real dial images, it doesn't feel right. Thoughts from the experts? Thanks! Pj


FAKE! REPORTED


----------



## notional

Just checked. It tool a while, but eBay finally took it down. 

Sent via Skynet with my T-1000


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

notional said:


> Just checked. It tool a while, but eBay finally took it down.
> 
> Sent via Skynet with my T-1000


2 hours


----------



## scarabei

I just had an eBay seller send me a fake PAM 1392. Came well packaged in, what looks like, a legitimate outer, inner and wooden presentation boxes. Looked super convincing until it stopped working within hours. Funny thing, seller claimed he included a warranty card, which was missing from the packaging when it arrived.

Here are some signs to look for. 













































Here is a link with the video for everyone to take note:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5gps742aa44yj5/Fake PAM 1392.MOV?dl=0

Seller's eBay handle is watchyowan_0

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

pity you did not post here or use all that knowledge before you bought


----------



## ghoatson

scarabei said:


> I just had an eBay seller send me a fake PAM 1392. Came well packaged in, what looks like, a legitimate outer, inner and wooden presentation boxes. Looked super convincing until it stopped working within hours. Funny thing, seller claimed he included a warranty card, which was missing from the packaging when it arrived.
> 
> Here are some signs to look for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Here is a link with the video for everyone to take note:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5gps742aa44yj5/Fake PAM 1392.MOV?dl=0
> 
> Seller's eBay handle is watchyowan_0
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thanks! This is very helpful


----------



## ghoatson

scarabei said:


> I just had an eBay seller send me a fake PAM 1392. Came well packaged in, what looks like, a legitimate outer, inner and wooden presentation boxes. Looked super convincing until it stopped working within hours. Funny thing, seller claimed he included a warranty card, which was missing from the packaging when it arrived.
> 
> Here are some signs to look for.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Here is a link with the video for everyone to take note:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5gps742aa44yj5/Fake PAM 1392.MOV?dl=0
> 
> Seller's eBay handle is watchyowan_0
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thanks! This is very helpful


----------



## scarabei

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> pity you did not post here or use all that knowledge before you bought


It was an impulse buy. It looked shady, but a good deal. It was late after a couple of drinks... and you know how that goes 

I was surprised I won the auction at $4400!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## scarabei

Another thing to watch for is the crown guard. It needs to have nice and tight action with a pleasant “plonk”. If the guard feels in any way easy to open/close and doesn’t have snug action, it’s a fake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

scarabei said:


> It was an impulse buy. It looked shady, but a good deal. It was late after a couple of drinks... and you know how that goes
> 
> I was surprised I won the auction at $4400!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


At $4400 hardly a steal!


----------



## jjluca26

Looking to see if this 183 is real. Currently these are the only pictures I have of then front and back. Comes with a 2 year warranty and was just serviced.
View attachment 12872983
View attachment 12872987


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

jjluca26 said:


> Looking to see if this 183 is real. Currently these are the only pictures I have of then front and back. Comes with a 2 year warranty and was just serviced.
> View attachment 12872983
> View attachment 12872987


Invalid attachment
Please just post photos?
adam


----------



## jjluca26

Apologies for not uploading the first time.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Thanks
The movement photo is not clear enough to make any definitive authentication.
Needs a clear photo of balance wheel
A


----------



## jjluca26

The last is a picture of my pan 177

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## daddyKC

jjluca26 said:


> The last is a picture of my pan 177
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your 177 looks ok.

Unfortunately the other one is 100% fake.
Incorrect swan neck & incabloc


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

jjluca26 said:


> The last is a picture of my pan 177
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Last picture is genuine, all others are fake


----------



## Baby Jesus

If the seller is located in Asia or Eastern Europe. Don’t ever buy. The chances of been fake is very high.


----------



## jjluca26

Baby ***** said:


> If the seller is located in Asia or Eastern Europe. Don't ever buy. The chances of been fake is very high.


Actually located in Miami and purchased thru eBay . Seller had a positive rating with 270 reviews...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Baby ***** said:


> If the seller is located in Asia or Eastern Europe. Don't ever buy. The chances of been fake is very high.


Pure stereotyping fakes come from everywhere!


----------



## jjluca26

Alright PAM 210 check, hopefully no issues with this one


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

jjluca26 said:


> Alright PAM 210 check, hopefully no issues with this one
> 
> View attachment 12889587
> 
> View attachment 12889589


INVALID LINK

Please just post photos


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

jjluca26 said:


> View attachment 12889601
> Alright PAM 210 check, hopefully no issues with this one
> 
> View attachment 12889607


Good News
This appears GENUINE
A


----------



## jjluca26

Thank you!!!



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Good News
> This appears GENUINE
> A


----------



## acelwc

Hi need help to ID if this is real can't judge on my side =(


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

acelwc said:


> View attachment 12913337
> 
> View attachment 12913339
> 
> View attachment 12913341
> 
> View attachment 12913343
> 
> View attachment 12913343
> 
> View attachment 12913345
> 
> 
> Hi need help to ID if this is real can't judge on my side =(


FAKE


----------



## acelwc

Okay thanks told the guy so but yea..


----------



## T1meout

acelwc said:


> View attachment 12913337
> 
> View attachment 12913339
> 
> View attachment 12913341
> 
> View attachment 12913343
> 
> View attachment 12913343
> 
> View attachment 12913345
> 
> 
> Hi need help to ID if this is real can't judge on my side =(


Oh my, is all I can say. This raises the term, bad counterfeit, to a totally new level.


----------



## bigclive2011

I have burnt my retinas looking at that!!

I must stop opening these posts!!


----------



## BigBlackClock

Hi guys, is this panerai real ?
he will be able to provide me with the sales receipt and he says that it is still under panerai warranty. the warranty card is stamped by The Hour Glass an AD in singapore.
however the card is black in color i tot it shuld be white. let me know what u think the pictures are in link below.

www.watchforum.sg/showthread.php?95094-PANERAI-01000

here are more photos from the seller
https://ibb.co/bD7157
https://ibb.co/duCqyS
https://ibb.co/dwp3JS
https://ibb.co/eMTxdS
https://ibb.co/mg6iJS
https://ibb.co/cKrTk7
https://ibb.co/b6LcdS
https://ibb.co/mfir57
https://ibb.co/h6zndS
https://ibb.co/n8SvXn
https://ibb.co/kUvhCn
https://ibb.co/cWHJk7


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

BigBlackClock said:


> Hi guys, is this panerai real ?
> he will be able to provide me with the sales receipt and he says that it is still under panerai warranty. the warranty card is stamped by The Hour Glass an AD in singapore.
> however the card is black in color i tot it shuld be white. let me know what u think the pictures are in link below.
> 
> www.watchforum.sg/showthread.php?95094-PANERAI-01000
> 
> here are more photos from the seller
> https://ibb.co/bD7157
> https://ibb.co/duCqyS
> https://ibb.co/dwp3JS
> https://ibb.co/eMTxdS
> https://ibb.co/mg6iJS
> https://ibb.co/cKrTk7
> https://ibb.co/b6LcdS
> https://ibb.co/mfir57
> https://ibb.co/h6zndS
> https://ibb.co/n8SvXn
> https://ibb.co/kUvhCn
> https://ibb.co/cWHJk7


The first link, watch looks good.


----------



## BigBlackClock

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> The first link, watch looks good.


What about the other pictures are the warranty card box etc authentic


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

BigBlackClock said:


> What about the other pictures are the warranty card box etc authentic


Sorry, i looked at a few at random, I did not have time to look at every one
What I saw looked OK
Its bettter to post the actual photo, then I can study
A


----------



## francorx

Saw this on eBay. I assume this is a fake? The crown guard is falling off, cracked case back. People are bidding on this and I am no expert but looks fake to me...

EBay listing luminor panerai Gmt( 192474485162)


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

GOOD ASSUMPTION
YES
Pass me a link to report it


----------



## francorx

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> GOOD ASSUMPTION
> YES
> Pass me a link to report it


I have reported it to eBay already, here is a link to the auction. Already 34 bids and its up to $840 USD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/luminor-pa...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

francorx said:


> I have reported it to eBay already, here is a link to the auction. Already 34 bids and its up to $840 USD
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/luminor-pa...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


Thanks will report tonight
A


----------



## bigclive2011

Sold for 840$ even with the hole in the back!!


----------



## francorx

I cant believe it sold either! Besides the cracked case back, the crown protector is falling off.


----------



## Synequano

Man,there's even a demand for a damaged auto albino 233 dot......


----------



## Walshie147

Hi everyone, am in the processing of buying a pam292 O series watch but took at look at the movement and it looks suspicious to me. Before I return the watch I wanted to make sure my call was correct. Thank you all for your help.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Walshie147 said:


> Hi everyone, am in the processing of buying a pam292 O series watch but took at look at the movement and it looks suspicious to me. Before I return the watch I wanted to make sure my call was correct. Thank you all for your help.
> 
> View attachment 12973471
> 
> 
> View attachment 12973475


FAKE
COMPLETE FAKE


----------



## Walshie147

Thank you HROLOGIST007. That was my view as well but wanted to make sure there wasn't some kind of movement used I didn't know about before sending it back. Greatly appreciate your help!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Walshie147 said:


> Thank you HROLOGIST007. That was my view as well but wanted to make sure there wasn't some kind of movement used I didn't know about before sending it back. Greatly appreciate your help!


Pleasure its meant to be UNITAS 6497 + SWAN NECK


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Walshie147 said:


> Thank you HROLOGIST007. That was my view as well but wanted to make sure there wasn't some kind of movement used I didn't know about before sending it back. Greatly appreciate your help!


Pleasure its meant to be UNITAS 6497 + SWAN NECK


----------



## bgator

This is a great thread. I've learned a lot reading through it.

Thanks to everyone who's shared their expertise.


----------



## Ignaceworang

One of the best thread in any forums...great work guys&#55357;&#56397;&#55356;&#57343;


----------



## Vicar69

372?


----------



## Synequano

Yup that's 372,from the crystal reflection it looks like it's the earlier ones with plexi


----------



## Vicar69

Synequano said:


> Yup that's 372,from the crystal reflection it looks like it's the earlier ones with plexi


Yep it was definitely plexi


----------



## CollectorD

Got this panerai 212 flyback in today. Looks good to me, but not sure. Thoughts on if it's real or not?

Thanks!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

No balance wheel photo
Does the flyback work - describe what it does?

W


----------



## CollectorD

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> No balance wheel photo
> Does the flyback work - describe what it does?
> 
> W


Thanks for the help. The flyback works. The chronograph function resets and immediately starts back up without needing to be stopped first (unlike other chronographs).

Here is a photo of the balance wheel.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

The only thing that concerns me is the back pin on crown guard is not flush.
Front one looks perfect, Dial and Rotor looks perfect too
A


----------



## CollectorD

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> The only thing that concerns me is the back pin on crown guard is not flush.
> Front one looks perfect, Dial and Rotor looks perfect too
> A


Thanks so much for the help. I'm just going to assume its real. I looked up other ones online and it seems like for most of them the pin is flush on one side but not the other.

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/ErikSzper/Panerai NEW/3_zpscebojfbf.jpg

PAM 212 Panerai Luminor 1950 Flyback - Contemporary PAM00212


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

CollectorD said:


> Thanks so much for the help. I'm just going to assume its real. I looked up other ones online and it seems like for most of them the pin is flush on one side but not the other.
> 
> http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/ErikSzper/Panerai NEW/3_zpscebojfbf.jpg
> 
> PAM 212 Panerai Luminor 1950 Flyback - Contemporary PAM00212


I am 99% sure its good
Adam


----------



## usb123

Panerai 312


----------



## usb123

https:// imgur.com/a/JJuoE


----------



## bigclive2011

Another Fake Panerai 382 on E bay bid up to £810 currently!!

Seller says he is from Kansas, but the item is priced in £.

I have reported it but it's still up.

Seller is kacistgceane-2, and has zero feedback.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

bigclive2011 said:


> Another Fake Panerai 382 on E bay bid up to £810 currently!!
> 
> Seller says he is from Kansas, but the item is priced in £.
> 
> I have reported it but it's still up.
> 
> Seller is kacistgceane-2, and has zero feedback.


Price is shown to you in your local currency.
Indeed I have a UK account, live in USA and I also see sell prices in pounds - so that does NOT mean fake.
Post a link and I will check and report if need be
Adam


----------



## bigclive2011

When I have looked at US based items in the past the price is shown in UK £ and then in US $ afterwards! This was not.

Went for £1310 with 30 bids, for a £25k watch.

Movement was wrong as well, but I did my bit and reported it.


----------



## LB Carl

Hi All,

I'm looking at a pre-owned PAM 233 from a seller with a good rep. All looked good, except I noticed the caseback doesn't have the panerai logo in between "stainless steel" and the water resistance. Far as I can tell comparing pics of the movement, all else looks good. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

LB Carl said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm looking at a pre-owned PAM 233 from a seller with a good rep. All looked good, except I noticed the caseback doesn't have the panerai logo in between "stainless steel" and the water resistance. Far as I can tell comparing pics of the movement, all else looks good. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
> View attachment 13046125
> View attachment 13046129


Movement looks genuine to me
A


----------



## LB Carl

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Movement looks genuine to me
> A


Thank you Adam. I spent quite a bit of time looking for a photo of another I series 233 to compare, and did see one which also lacked the OP logo. J, K, etc series all have the logo. Just wanted to be extra cautious.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

LB Carl said:


> Thank you Adam. I spent quite a bit of time looking for a photo of another I series 233 to compare, and did see one which also lacked the OP logo. J, K, etc series all have the logo. Just wanted to be extra cautious.


I am sure its good. No way a fake would have a genuine movement
A


----------



## LB Carl

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I am sure its good. No way a fake would have a genuine movement
> A


Thanks!


----------



## CollectorD

Just got in this PAM 441 Black GMT Ceramica. Is it real?


----------



## jjluca26

Pam 183 real or not ?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

CollectorD said:


> Just got in this PAM 441 Black GMT Ceramica. Is it real?
> 
> View attachment 13059183
> 
> View attachment 13059189
> View attachment 13059191
> View attachment 13059193


IMpossible to tel from those photos, but leaning to was the watch running when you took movement phopto?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

jjluca26 said:


> Pam 183 real or not ?
> 
> View attachment 13059595


Looks genuine
A


----------



## CollectorD

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> IMpossible to tel from those photos, but leaning to was the watch running when you took movement phopto?


Not sure. What photos would you need to see to be able to tell?

Thanks.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

CollectorD said:


> Not sure. What photos would you need to see to be able to tell?
> 
> Thanks.


Balance wheel area running a 35 second video is best
A


----------



## CollectorD

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> IMpossible to tel from those photos, but leaning to was the watch running when you took movement phopto?


I'm leaning towards mine being fake. If you look at my photos, the red jewel above the "Swiss Made" on the movement is on top of the "ad" (in Made) while on the real one it's on top of the "de" (in Made)


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Its fake,
For Certain. Those photos prove it


----------



## CollectorD

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Its fake,
> For Certain. Those photos prove it


Thanks for your help and confirmation.


----------



## itzjere

Looking at purchasing this new, never worn PAM00384. This person is relatively local and willing to meet face to face. Before I waste my time, and his time, can anyone tell me if it's worth seeing in person? Also, if I do meet with him in person, is there anything questionable I should review before deciding to pull the trigger? Seller does not have certificate. Not sure if the SN on the case and any of the packaging/sticker/box are supposed to match?

Seeing as this has an 8-day power reserve, and the fakes have a working power reserve, but only keeps 40-48hr hours, I figure an easy way to tell would be how long it takes to actually charge up the power reserve to a full 8 days. I have an IWC BP with a 7 day power reserve, so I am familiar with how long it takes to charge that watch from empty compared to my 40-48hr watches.

Pictures:


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

sadly not 1 photo is any good. We need clear photos of movement, especially balance wheel - straight on shots 
Thats said it looks good, then again so do many fakes
A


----------



## itzjere

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> sadly not 1 photo is any good. We need clear photos of movement, especially balance wheel - straight on shots
> Thats said it looks good, then again so do many fakes
> A


Yea, I didn't find the photos to be very telling as well. I have requested caseback/movement photos, so hopefully more of those to follow shortly.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

itzjere said:


> Yea, I didn't find the photos to be very telling as well. I have requested caseback/movement photos, so hopefully more of those to follow shortly.


Sounds good - better to be safe than sorry, its a VERY well faked piece
A


----------



## jjluca26

Pam 1024
All
Box and papers
Match as well as the cosc. Trying to see if this is real or fake.
Loses a second a day after three days of wearing










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

jjluca26 said:


> Pam 1024
> All
> Box and papers
> Match as well as the cosc. Trying to see if this is real or fake.
> Loses a second a day after three days of wearing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In my opinion and without movement photo = YES
adam


----------



## gmoybusiness

Fake


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jjluca26

gmoybusiness said:


> Fake
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What's makes you say that if I may ask?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## B-747

Hi guys, my first panerai here, i am pretty sure there is no problem with it but wanted to check with you guys. Your opinions are much appreciated.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

B-747 said:


> Hi guys, my first panerai here, i am pretty sure there is no problem with it but wanted to check with you guys. Your opinions are much appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 13090481
> 
> 
> View attachment 13090483
> 
> 
> View attachment 13090485
> 
> 
> View attachment 13090487
> 
> 
> View attachment 13090489


GENUINE


----------



## B-747

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> GENUINE


thanks for the info and your time.


----------



## ListPrivate

Hi there, I purchased a PAM 164 here in Toronto at an authorized dealer about 13 years ago, the dealer is now out of business, but I tried selling my watch on a forum and have been told my watch was a replica, this is highly concerning to me, but at the time of purchase I never considered it to be fake considering the amount of money I paid for it, can some one please look at the pictures and shed some light on this? Any help would be grateful, I have a PAM 310 too and the buyer brought to my attention that at the back of my PAM 310, the serial number is engraved and indented, where as my pam 164 looks like it was a sticker that was placed on it. Please help. I also noticed now that on the serial certificate the series is I, but the faded back of the watch starts with an H. I'm so concerned


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ListPrivate said:


> Hi there, I purchased a PAM 164 here in Toronto at an authorized dealer about 13 years ago, the dealer is now out of business, but I tried selling my watch on a forum and have been told my watch was a replica, this is highly concerning to me, but at the time of purchase I never considered it to be fake considering the amount of money I paid for it, can some one please look at the pictures and shed some light on this? Any help would be grateful, I have a PAM 310 too and the buyer brought to my attention that at the back of my PAM 310, the serial number is engraved and indented, where as my pam 164 looks like it was a sticker that was placed on it. Please help. I also noticed now that on the serial certificate the series is I, but the faded back of the watch starts with an H. I'm so concerned


Serial number looks engraved to me.
Need a movement photo to really confirm it
A


----------



## ListPrivate

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Serial number looks engraved to me.
> Need a movement photo to really confirm it
> A


so below the BB1175069, there was a sticker looks like and its been faded that says H1333/1500 on my PAM 310 its actually engraved. 
but it says H, and if you look at the card, it says it's I series, and both the numbers on the certificate doesn't match the back of this watch, its' hard to do a moving photo because the sticker has faded quite a bit.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ListPrivate said:


> so below the BB1175069, there was a sticker looks like and its been faded that says H1333/1500 on my PAM 310 its actually engraved.
> but it says H, and if you look at the card, it says it's I series, and both the numbers on the certificate doesn't match the back of this watch, its' hard to do a moving photo because the sticker has faded quite a bit.


a sticker that does not exist can not tell us anything.
Get the watch opened for a movement photo
A


----------



## ListPrivate

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> a sticker that does not exist can not tell us anything.
> Get the watch opened for a movement photo
> A


Thank you, I'll have to try to get the back open and post some pictures!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ListPrivate said:


> Thank you, I'll have to try to get the back open and post some pictures!


Yes, I really cannot say based on those photos
A


----------



## Ref001

I know the photos are essentially useless but before I waste my time going to the place to get more detailed photos, anything that already screams 100% fake?



http://imgur.com/OrpeYjr


Note this is just some local auction house.


----------



## Ref001

Upon further research it's a really bad fake. Nevermind.


----------



## scottbor2

Hi - My first post on here. I'm looking at purchasing a PAM 159 from Govberg. My concern is really that the watch has been listed for sale for almost 2 years and, sometime over that time frame, they apparently found the warranty card from Panerai. A previous sale post in the watchuseek forum shows pictures of the same watch as well as a picture of the watch, box, and papers with no warranty card while it is now shown with the card on the website. Compounding my suspicion is the fact that the watch is on a rubber strap, when I believe this watch originally came on a brown alligator strap. To be clear, I recognize its impossible to tell if it's fake from the information and pictures provided, however I'd like the groups opinion on whether to bid with confidence or be suspicious. I know Govberg is a respected seller but given all the high quality fakes out there you can never be to careful nowadays...

Based on the fact that this is my first post I am not allowed to post the links or pictures, but a quick trip to the Govberg website will show you the current watch for sale, and a quick search of the sales corner forum for "PAM 159" will show the Govberg sale post near the top (with no warranty card).

Thanks for any help you can provide in advance!


----------



## cb1111

scottbor2 said:


> Hi - My first post on here. I'm looking at purchasing a PAM 159 from Govberg. My concern is really that the watch has been listed for sale for almost 2 years and, sometime over that time frame, they apparently found the warranty card from Panerai. A previous sale post in the watchuseek forum shows pictures of the same watch as well as a picture of the watch, box, and papers with no warranty card while it is now shown with the card on the website. Compounding my suspicion is the fact that the watch is on a rubber strap, when I believe this watch originally came on a brown alligator strap. To be clear, I recognize its impossible to tell if it's fake from the information and pictures provided, however I'd like the groups opinion on whether to bid with confidence or be suspicious. I know Govberg is a respected seller but given all the high quality fakes out there you can never be to careful nowadays...
> 
> Based on the fact that this is my first post I am not allowed to post the links or pictures, but a quick trip to the Govberg website will show you the current watch for sale, and a quick search of the sales corner forum for "PAM 159" will show the Govberg sale post near the top (with no warranty card).
> 
> Thanks for any help you can provide in advance!


I would ask Govberg those questions and see what they say.

Quite frankly, I'd take their word (with then having the actual watch) over the opinions of a bunch of unknown people on the internet looking at a couple of pictures.


----------



## bigclive2011

No personal experience as I'm UK based, but aren't Govberg a hugely respected jeweller stateside??

Surely they will not be selling anything they aren't 100% sure about??

Speak to them about your concerns, and remember if they have had it for sale that long you should be able to negotiate the price, as it obviously is not a popular model.


----------



## cb1111

bigclive2011 said:


> No personal experience as I'm UK based, but aren't Govberg a hugely respected jeweller stateside??
> 
> Surely they will not be selling anything they aren't 100% sure about??
> 
> Speak to them about your concerns, and remember if they have had it for sale that long you should be able to negotiate the price, as it obviously is not a popular model.


Absolutely. Think Boodles in London. Neither can afford to sell a fake.


----------



## cb1111

bigclive2011 said:


> No personal experience as I'm UK based, but aren't Govberg a hugely respected jeweller stateside??
> 
> Surely they will not be selling anything they aren't 100% sure about??
> 
> Speak to them about your concerns, and remember if they have had it for sale that long you should be able to negotiate the price, as it obviously is not a popular model.


Absolutely. Think Boodles in London. Neither can afford to sell a fake.

It is, of course possible that they were duped but an inquiry to them will prompt someone to look at the watch and will resolve the issue.


----------



## drlvegas

Here's a 113 that's up on the bay right now:


----------



## oreo931

drlvegas said:


> Here's a 113 that's up on the bay right now:


Fake.


----------



## drlvegas

oreo931 said:


> Fake.


A bad one at that.


----------



## luishornedo

Can anybody tell me if this PAM 210 on Ebay is real? Pictures are pretty high res on it theyre asking $3999.99


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

luishornedo said:


> Can anybody tell me if this PAM 210 on Ebay is real? Pictures are pretty high res on it theyre asking $3999.99
> View attachment 13142439
> View attachment 13142443
> View attachment 13142445


Looks OK
BUT
Needs a close up shot of balance wheel and regulator to 100% authenticate
A


----------



## luishornedo

Heres a closer look at movement


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

luishornedo said:


> View attachment 13142505
> Heres a closer look at movement


Genuine in my opinion
Adam


----------



## luishornedo

Thanks for the reply


----------



## hungdangnguyen23

fascinating thread, some of these fakes look really good to the naked (and untrained) eye...


----------



## Snowback

.


----------



## Snowback

Great thread! I'm new to the Panerai cult and I'm looking at a PAM 111, P series. Does this one ring any bells for signs of being fake? These are the only pictures that I have at the moment. Thanks for any/all opinions!







​


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Snowback said:


> Great thread! I'm new to the Panerai cult and I'm looking at a PAM 111, P series. Does this one ring any bells for signs of being fake? These are the only pictures that I have at the moment. Thanks for any/all opinions!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Poor photos, but 95% sure its FAKE


----------



## Notorious972

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Poor photos, but 95% sure its FAKE


What makes you say that ?
I'm not an expert at all, but I had the same feeling when I saw the movement. I can't say why though !

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Notorious972 said:


> What makes you say that ?
> I'm not an expert at all, but I had the same feeling when I saw the movement. I can't say why though !
> 
> Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


what makes me say it? Because its fake!

I dont explain why
Sorry
A


----------



## Notorious972

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> what makes me say it? Because its fake!
> 
> I dont explain why
> Sorry
> A


No need to be sorry. 
You could say it's because of the movement or a wrong dial,... no problem. 
I'm not concerned.

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## bcosta

Notorious972 said:


> What makes you say that ?
> I'm not an expert at all, but I had the same feeling when I saw the movement. I can't say why though !
> 
> Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


The last photo makes it easier to detect that is a fake Panerai! It seems the Y incabloc is all wrong...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jjluca26

Pam 210 check

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

jjluca26 said:


> Pam 210 check
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks all present and correct
A


----------



## DAVIEBOY29

Know I can't get in the back yet but these are all I have of it. Pam 241, opinions please. Made in 2006 and has all box and papers.


----------



## oreo931

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Looks all present and correct
> A


agreed.


----------



## WatchMeWork

Since when did a 441 come with a blue small seconds hand?

Heads up on this one!

WatchNet: Luxury Time: FS: Panerai 1441 Luminor Marine 3 Day Ceramica pam01441


----------



## WatchMeWork

Since when did a 441 come with a blue small seconds hand?

Heads up on this one!

WatchNet: Luxury Time: FS: Panerai 1441 Luminor Marine 3 Day Ceramica pam01441


----------



## WatchMeWork




----------



## Synequano

That's 1441,it has blue second and supposedly thinner movements


----------



## WatchMeWork

Synequano said:


> That's 1441,it has blue second and supposedly thinner movements


 Wow, shame on me. Is that a new model? I can't seem to find them on Chrono24 and all the pictures I see from different sites are the same picture. I'll stick with the matching hand on my 441!


----------



## mustang333

fake fake fake


----------



## ldnmag86

Hello Paneristi,

Coming at you with a validation request, mainly because the model being offered to me does not have any papers with it so I would like a sanity check. I have attached two pictures. Please let me know if you believe it to be genuine? Thanks.."


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ldnmag86 said:


> Hello Paneristi,
> 
> Coming at you with a validation request, mainly because the model being offered to me does not have any papers with it so I would like a sanity check. I have attached two pictures. Please let me know if you believe it to be genuine? Thanks.."
> View attachment 13243931
> View attachment 13243933


Looks correct
Need a better photo of balance area to 100% confirm
Adam


----------



## ldnmag86

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Looks correct
> Need a better photo of balance area to 100% confirm
> Adam


Here you go.....

Here you go


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ldnmag86 said:


> Here you go.....
> 
> Here you go
> View attachment 13261287


Pretty sure FAKE
Go to an AD!
Adam


----------



## Buckatron

Does this watch look legit?

Hi members.

I am looking to get into my first Panerai and have been reading a lot about counterfeits and scams. I think it's making me a bit paranoid but I'm hoping you all can help by providing some input and opinions about the watches authenticity? Thanks for your help.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Buckatron said:


> Does this watch look legit?
> 
> Hi members.
> 
> I am looking to get into my first Panerai and have been reading a lot about counterfeits and scams. I think it's making me a bit paranoid but I'm hoping you all can help by providing some input and opinions about the watches authenticity? Thanks for your help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Impossible to tel. Needs decent close up photos of movement, especially balance wheel

A


----------



## Buckatron

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Impossible to tel. Needs decent close up photos of movement, especially balance wheel
> 
> A


Thanks for your response. I received another pic from the current owner. Is this better for determining its authenticity?

Thanks in advance.

Ps. I blacked the serial # for the photo but it matches the paperwork. 

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Buckatron said:


> Thanks for your response. I received another pic from the current owner. Is this better for determining its authenticity?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Ps. I blacked the serial # for the photo but it matches the paperwork.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Still not great of balance wheel area but from what I can see looks good


----------



## Buckatron

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Still not great of balance wheel area but from what I can see looks good


Thank you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Buckatron

Can somebody confirm this is a genuine PAM 111?

Comes with box/papers but am new to Panerai and just doing my due diligence

Thanks in advance.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

GENUINE


----------



## dgdnyc

PAM074 - Ok, I felt good about this, until I saw this thread and realized the level of precision in fakes. I really hope I didn't get taken, I met the seller in person and seemed credible, but probably should have done more due diligence....


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

dgdnyc said:


> PAM074 - Ok, I felt good about this, until I saw this thread and realized the level of precision in fakes. I really hope I didn't get taken, I met the seller in person and seemed credible, but probably should have done more due diligence....
> 
> View attachment 13286369
> 
> View attachment 13286371
> 
> View attachment 13286373
> 
> View attachment 13286359
> 
> View attachment 13286357
> 
> View attachment 13286375
> 
> View attachment 13286377


Should be using the Zenith El Primero movement.
Need decent photos of balance wheel area, but from lousy photos, I think you are OK
adam


----------



## dgdnyc

I am realizing the difficulty of taking precision photos with an iPhone &#55357;&#56900;. Hopefully these are helpful.


----------



## dgdnyc

I am realizing the difficulty of taking precision photos with an iPhone ?. Hopefully these are helpful.

I really appreciate the assistance!!

View attachment 13288591

View attachment 13288603

View attachment 13288605


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

GENUINE
A


----------



## dgdnyc

Much appreciated!!!!

  

-dgdnyc


----------



## dgdnyc

Much appreciated!!!!

  

-dgdnyc


----------



## [email protected]

Hi All, Finally got my 1st PAM 112 (Sandwich dial).

Need helps here to verify the authenticity of this watch. Thanks in advanced.


----------



## [email protected]

Hi All, Finally got my 1st PAM 112 (Sandwich dial).

Need helps here to verify the authenticity of this watch. Thanks in advanced.

View attachment 13294807
View attachment 13294809


----------



## [email protected]

Sorry for double posts..not sure how to delete one of it.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

[email protected] said:


> Hi All, Finally got my 1st PAM 112 (Sandwich dial).
> 
> Need helps here to verify the authenticity of this watch. Thanks in advanced.
> 
> View attachment 13294807
> View attachment 13294809


First one is FAKE
This looks GENUINE........
JOKING

Looks all genuine
adam


----------



## [email protected]

Thanks Adam for speedy response.

You worrying me when I first read your reply. 

Thank you again for your help.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

[email protected] said:


> Thanks Adam for speedy response.
> 
> You worrying me when I first read your reply.
> 
> Thank you again for your help.


LOL
In future ask before you buy
ENJOY!
A


----------



## [email protected]

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> LOL
> In future ask before you buy
> ENJOY!
> A


Yes, will definitely get your help to double confirm.

In fact, only found this site after I brought the watch maybe too rush to decide. What I did earlier is to matching all the reference numbers with warranty card.

Thank you.


----------



## Padriz

PAM00441
A close friend took this as a part of a payment, I’m not used to dealing with luxury goods as payment and would like to get an opinion on this piece. I could take more accurate photos.


----------



## zegeli

Hey guys,

Be careful out there buying watches! The fakes are so good these days its probably impossible to tell by looking at photos. Here is a $300USD (Including shipping) replica. These are photos from the actual watch. I actually compared them to an authentic PAM112 for quite some time and I cannot find a single diference between them. They have copied everything 1to1 including the swan neck. Here are the photos of a superfake:


----------



## endotreated

Anything suspicious here? PAM111.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Padriz said:


> PAM00441
> A close friend took this as a part of a payment, I'm not used to dealing with luxury goods as payment and would like to get an opinion on this piece. I could take more accurate photos.


This is FAKE - JUNK


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

zegeli said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Be careful out there buying watches! The fakes are so good these days its probably impossible to tell by looking at photos. Here is a $300USD (Including shipping) replica. These are photos from the actual watch. I actually compared them to an authentic PAM112 for quite some time and I cannot find a single diference between them. They have copied everything 1to1 including the swan neck. Here are the photos of a superfake:
> 
> View attachment 13300017
> 
> 
> View attachment 13300019


AGREED SEEMS GENUINE = Please post the $300 receipt
A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

endotreated said:


> View attachment 13303099
> 
> 
> View attachment 13303101
> 
> 
> View attachment 13303105
> 
> 
> Anything suspicious here? PAM111.


Yes, but need straight photos of movement (especially balance wheel area) and dial area including crown guard


----------



## Padriz

Thanks for confirming


----------



## endotreated

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yes, but need straight photos of movement (especially balance wheel area) and dial area including crown guard


I followed the "buy the seller before you buy the product" philosophy and ordered it.

Seller is reputable on eBay, selling lots of watches in the 3k-10k range, mostly Panerai and Hublot, 350 transactions, 100% positive feedback.

This guy has too much to lose and wouldn't be interested in selling a fake. Besides the fact that he sells a lot of Panerai makes me feel better.

I also have eBay protection and PayPal protection, just in case.

When watch arrives, I will take high quality pictures and post them here to confirm authenticity before I leave him feedback.

The other thing: I've never seen a replica use the wrong stainless bracelet that belongs to a different model


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

endotreated said:


> I followed the "buy the seller before you buy the product" philosophy and ordered it.
> 
> Seller is reputable on eBay, selling lots of watches in the 3k-10k range, mostly Panerai and Hublot, 350 transactions, 100% positive feedback.
> 
> This guy has too much to lose and wouldn't be interested in selling a fake. Besides the fact that he sells a lot of Panerai makes me feel better.
> 
> I also have eBay protection and PayPal protection, just in case.
> 
> When watch arrives, I will take high quality pictures and post them here to confirm authenticity before I leave him feedback.
> 
> The other thing: I've never seen a replica use the wrong stainless bracelet that belongs to a different model


seems reasonable
As I say, it looks good from what I could see
A


----------



## endotreated

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> seems reasonable
> As I say, it looks good from what I could see
> A


I just got the watch today... and I'm suspicious.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

endotreated said:


> I just got the watch today... and I'm suspicious.
> View attachment 13318807
> 
> 
> View attachment 13318809
> 
> 
> View attachment 13318813
> 
> 
> View attachment 13318817
> 
> 
> View attachment 13318819


*100% FAKE
and NOT the watch you first posted - pretty sure to that, original was SS and genuine!*


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Its a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT watch
This one is FAKE


----------



## endotreated

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> *100% FAKE
> and NOT the watch you first posted - pretty sure to that, original was SS and genuine!*


The stainless bracelet it came with is a crapy crapy fake, so I took it off right away... but the leather band feels stiff and unrefined as well.

































I've never owned a Panerai, so I don't really know too much, but there's a lot of things I don't like here.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Watch is 100% FAKE - NO doubt
Get a claim into Ebay IMMEDIATELY

Its fake
Adam
ANY ISSUE PM me


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Just relooked at original photo.
Same watch and now I can EASILY see its fake
My bad for missing it - SORRY

Get a claim in IMMEDIATELY
adam


----------



## endotreated

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Watch is 100% FAKE - NO doubt
> Get a claim into Ebay IMMEDIATELY
> 
> Its fake
> Adam
> ANY ISSUE PM me


I just sent a message to seller telling him it's fake and asking what he wants to do.

Wait his response or file a claim?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

endotreated said:


> I just sent a message to seller telling him it's fake and asking what he wants to do.
> 
> Wait his response or file a claim?


FORGET THE SELLER
GET A CLAIM IN INSTANTLY!!!!

Any issue PM me
Adam


----------



## lindenminers1

Hi,

I'm new to the site; thank you in advance. Just wanted to get y'all expert opinion on this watch. I'm interested in buying this watch, but the seller does not know what year the watch is (they do not have the papers). I've looked at different forums to see what year by looking at the back, but it's not clear since it doesn't have the traditional serial code (i.e. K0423/1000) that other Panerai's have.

So, main questions: *What year is this Panerai? / Is it real?* (i'm assuming it is, seller is reputable)


----------



## endotreated

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> FORGET THE SELLER
> GET A CLAIM IN INSTANTLY!!!!
> 
> Any issue PM me
> Adam


I'm no longer suspicious... I'm 100% convinced I paid $4,100 for TOTAL JUNK
















Here's what I did so far:
1. Messaged seller telling him it's fake
2. Filed a "request return/refund" with eBay. Reason for return: Doesn't seem authentic. Comments: watch is 100% FAKE!
3. I filed a "Report an issue with a seller" on eBay and stated category "counterfeit, fake or replica items".

I have not left any feedback for him yet...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

endotreated said:


> I'm no longer suspicious... I'm 100% convinced I paid $4,100 for TOTAL JUNK
> View attachment 13318929
> 
> 
> View attachment 13318931
> 
> 
> Here's what I did so far:
> 1. Messaged seller telling him it's fake
> 2. Filed a "request return/refund" with eBay. Reason for return: *Doesn't seem authentic.* Comments: watch is 100% FAKE!
> 3. I filed a "Report an issue with a seller" on eBay and stated category "counterfeit, fake or replica items".
> 
> I have not left any feedback for him yet...


STOP prattling around - ITS FAKE


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

lindenminers1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to the site; thank you in advance. Just wanted to get y'all expert opinion on this watch. I'm interested in buying this watch, but the seller does not know what year the watch is (they do not have the papers). I've looked at different forums to see what year by looking at the back, but it's not clear since it doesn't have the traditional serial code (i.e. K0423/1000) that other Panerai's have.
> 
> So, main questions: *What year is this Panerai? / Is it real?* (i'm assuming it is, seller is reputable)
> 
> View attachment 13318901
> 
> View attachment 13318903


Looks good but ONLY a 30 second video of balance wheel running can 100% confirm
A


----------



## Billsamson

Dear my fellow Panerai freaks! I bought a PAM 111 about a year ago second hand from a real nice gentleman. He purchased it from a well know dealer, whom I have done business before with. Because the seller told me who he got it from, all I did was call said gentleman and confirm that the watch came from him. It came triple boxed, with a one year warrant.

Fast forward about a year and I noticed one of the blue bridge screws is coming loose. Upon further inspection, I noticed a few things things that sort of caught me off guard, given how frequently 111's are faked.

Anyway, my gut tells me it is legit, but I was hoping for some clarity.

My concerns are: the incabloc seems small. The screws on the swan neck are flush and not too close to the the edge. That checks out. One thing that bothers me is the winding gears. They almost look two tiered, when I thought it was just one piece. Also, the numbers on the case back seem really small. They are engraved well but they aren't too terrible deep. The "Officine Panerai" is very deep and looks legit. My only other concern regarding the engraving is the 300m and the OP and fish symbol are very lightly engraved.

As to the dial, the i feel like the pin that holds the hands together is a little rounder and more obtuse than it is supposed to be. Also the hands seem skinny.

My last observation is the crown guard. It fits very flush, but so do many 111 crown guards. The pin in the crown guard has been pushed in by some dipship.

Anyway, with papers and boxes, based on my observations and pictures, do we have a genuine PAM 111?

Many Many Thanks.

- Hampton
















































View attachment 13319119
View attachment 13319121


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Billsamson said:


> Dear my fellow Panerai freaks! I bought a PAM 111 about a year ago second hand from a real nice gentleman. He purchased it from a well know dealer, whom I have done business before with. Because the seller told me who he got it from, all I did was call said gentleman and confirm that the watch came from him. It came triple boxed, with a one year warrant.
> 
> Fast forward about a year and I noticed one of the blue bridge screws is coming loose. Upon further inspection, I noticed a few things things that sort of caught me off guard, given how frequently 111's are faked.
> 
> Anyway, my gut tells me it is legit, but I was hoping for some clarity.
> 
> My concerns are: the incabloc seems small. The screws on the swan neck are flush and not too close to the the edge. That checks out. One thing that bothers me is the winding gears. They almost look two tiered, when I thought it was just one piece. Also, the numbers on the case back seem really small. They are engraved well but they aren't too terrible deep. The "Officine Panerai" is very deep and looks legit. My only other concern regarding the engraving is the 300m and the OP and fish symbol are very lightly engraved.
> 
> As to the dial, the i feel like the pin that holds the hands together is a little rounder and more obtuse than it is supposed to be. Also the hands seem skinny.
> 
> My last observation is the crown guard. It fits very flush, but so do many 111 crown guards. The pin in the crown guard has been pushed in by some dipship.
> 
> Anyway, with papers and boxes, based on my observations and pictures, do we have a genuine PAM 111?
> 
> Many Many Thanks.
> 
> - Hampton
> View attachment 13319103
> View attachment 13319105
> View attachment 13319107
> View attachment 13319109
> View attachment 13319111
> View attachment 13319113
> View attachment 13319115
> View attachment 13319117
> View attachment 13319119
> View attachment 13319121
> View attachment 13319103
> View attachment 13319105
> View attachment 13319107
> View attachment 13319109
> View attachment 13319111
> View attachment 13319113
> View attachment 13319115
> View attachment 13319117


Watch is genuine in my opinion
A


----------



## endotreated

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Watch is genuine in my opinion
> A


It looks like it to me too... I spent a long time analyzing the difference and studying what an authentic PAM111 looks like since I got scammed.


----------



## an329

Hi all, new to the site and wanted to get your thoughts on a watch I have (I know to be sure I need to send to Panerai, but figured I'd check here, too). Purchased used from a dealer without box/papers off Chrono24. Only have 2 pictures at the moment but can upload more later.

















The bar in the "A" on the front dial looks good, swan neck regulator screws look good, but the "Officine" on the back side of the watch seems close to the screw. Any feedback would be much appreciated!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

an329 said:


> Hi all, new to the site and wanted to get your thoughts on a watch I have (I know to be sure I need to send to Panerai, but figured I'd check here, too). Purchased used from a dealer without box/papers off Chrono24. Only have 2 pictures at the moment but can upload more later.
> 
> View attachment 13350871
> 
> 
> View attachment 13350873
> 
> 
> The bar in the "A" on the front dial looks good, swan neck regulator screws look good, but the "Officine" on the back side of the watch seems close to the screw. Any feedback would be much appreciated!


FAKE, in my opinion

Regards
A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

an329 said:


> Hi all, new to the site and wanted to get your thoughts on a watch I have (I know to be sure I need to send to Panerai, but figured I'd check here, too). Purchased used from a dealer without box/papers off Chrono24. Only have 2 pictures at the moment but can upload more later.
> 
> View attachment 13350871
> 
> 
> View attachment 13350873
> 
> 
> The bar in the "A" on the front dial looks good, swan neck regulator screws look good, but the "Officine" on the back side of the watch seems close to the screw. Any feedback would be much appreciated!


FAKE, in my opinion

Regards
A


----------



## Synequano

That supposedly 111N looks fake to my untrained eye


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Synequano said:


> That supposedly 111N looks fake to my untrained eye


Thats because it is FAKE!


----------



## wallypop

really fake


----------



## DAVIEBOY29

Pam 380, posting for a friend. He purchased it from a jeweler with no box or papers. When he showed me the movement it threw up some red flags. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## martymar321

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Panerai Luminor Titanium PAM177, 44mm

This has been offered to me for $3100, Seems like it may be too good to be true. Thoughts on this? Replica or authentic Panerai?



















































- - - Updated - - -

Panerai Luminor Titanium PAM177, 44mm

This has been offered to me for $3100, Seems like it may be too good to be true. Thoughts on this? Replica or authentic Panerai?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



DAVIEBOY29 said:


> Pam 380, posting for a friend. He purchased it from a jeweler with no box or papers. When he showed me the movement it threw up some red flags. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks


Looks Good

- - - Updated - - -



DAVIEBOY29 said:


> Pam 380, posting for a friend. He purchased it from a jeweler with no box or papers. When he showed me the movement it threw up some red flags. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks


Looks Good


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



martymar321 said:


> Panerai Luminor Titanium PAM177, 44mm
> 
> This has been offered to me for $3100, Seems like it may be too good to be true. Thoughts on this? Replica or authentic Panerai?
> 
> View attachment 13371865
> 
> View attachment 13371867
> 
> View attachment 13371869
> 
> View attachment 13371873
> 
> View attachment 13371875
> 
> View attachment 13371877
> 
> View attachment 13371879
> 
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Panerai Luminor Titanium PAM177, 44mm
> 
> This has been offered to me for $3100, Seems like it may be too good to be true. Thoughts on this? Replica or authentic Panerai?
> 
> View attachment 13371865
> 
> View attachment 13371867
> 
> View attachment 13371869
> 
> View attachment 13371873
> 
> View attachment 13371875
> 
> View attachment 13371877
> 
> View attachment 13371879


Needs a movement photo
Nothing there can 100% authenticate


----------



## martymar321

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*

Thought I included the movemen, uploading now.






























- - - Updated - - -

Thought I included the movemen, uploading now.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*



martymar321 said:


> Thought I included the movemen, uploading now.
> 
> View attachment 13372435
> 
> View attachment 13372437
> 
> View attachment 13372439
> 
> View attachment 13372441
> 
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Thought I included the movemen, uploading now.
> 
> View attachment 13372435
> 
> View attachment 13372437
> 
> View attachment 13372439
> 
> View attachment 13372441


...... photos to decieve
BUT its FAKE
If you want me to re adress post close up photos of movement balance wheel are


----------



## televisedcollector

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Hey everyone, 
I'm planning on pulling the trigger on this 
Panerai Luminor Marina Militare "Destro" Lefty 44mm PAM White
Ebay Link (please remove spaces): ebay. com / itm/ Panerai-Luminor-Marina-Militare-Destro-Lefty-44mm-PAM-White/192620148777?hash=item2cd90e3829%3Ag%3AZRgAAOSw1r5baUrc&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=panerai&_from=R40&rt=nc

Any input? Real or fake?

- - - Updated - - -

Hey everyone, 
I'm planning on pulling the trigger on this 
Panerai Luminor Marina Militare "Destro" Lefty 44mm PAM White
Ebay Link (please remove spaces): ebay. com / itm/ Panerai-Luminor-Marina-Militare-Destro-Lefty-44mm-PAM-White/192620148777?hash=item2cd90e3829%3Ag%3AZRgAAOSw1r5baUrc&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=panerai&_from=R40&rt=nc

Any input? Real or fake?


----------



## televisedcollector

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*

Sorry, let me try and make the link clearer:

ebay.com/
itm/Panerai-Luminor-Marina-Militare-Destro-Lefty-44mm-PAM-White/192620148777?
hash=item2cd90e3829%3Ag%3AZRgAAOSw1r5baUrc&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=panerai&_from=R40&rt=nc

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, let me try and make the link clearer:

ebay.com/
itm/Panerai-Luminor-Marina-Militare-Destro-Lefty-44mm-PAM-White/192620148777?
hash=item2cd90e3829%3Ag%3AZRgAAOSw1r5baUrc&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=panerai&_from=R40&rt=nc


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*



televisedcollector said:


> Hey everyone,
> I'm planning on pulling the trigger on this
> Panerai Luminor Marina Militare "Destro" Lefty 44mm PAM White
> Ebay Link (please remove spaces): ebay. com / itm/ Panerai-Luminor-Marina-Militare-Destro-Lefty-44mm-PAM-White/192620148777?hash=item2cd90e3829%3Ag%3AZRgAAOSw1r5baUrc&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=panerai&_from=R40&rt=nc
> 
> Any input? Real or fake?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Hey everyone,
> I'm planning on pulling the trigger on this
> Panerai Luminor Marina Militare "Destro" Lefty 44mm PAM White
> Ebay Link (please remove spaces): ebay. com / itm/ Panerai-Luminor-Marina-Militare-Destro-Lefty-44mm-PAM-White/192620148777?hash=item2cd90e3829%3Ag%3AZRgAAOSw1r5baUrc&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=panerai&_from=R40&rt=nc
> 
> Any input? Real or fake?


Got NO idea what you mean "remove all spaces"

Post the item number

- - - Updated - - -



televisedcollector said:


> Hey everyone,
> I'm planning on pulling the trigger on this
> Panerai Luminor Marina Militare "Destro" Lefty 44mm PAM White
> Ebay Link (please remove spaces): ebay. com / itm/ Panerai-Luminor-Marina-Militare-Destro-Lefty-44mm-PAM-White/192620148777?hash=item2cd90e3829%3Ag%3AZRgAAOSw1r5baUrc&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=panerai&_from=R40&rt=nc
> 
> Any input? Real or fake?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Hey everyone,
> I'm planning on pulling the trigger on this
> Panerai Luminor Marina Militare "Destro" Lefty 44mm PAM White
> Ebay Link (please remove spaces): ebay. com / itm/ Panerai-Luminor-Marina-Militare-Destro-Lefty-44mm-PAM-White/192620148777?hash=item2cd90e3829%3Ag%3AZRgAAOSw1r5baUrc&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=panerai&_from=R40&rt=nc
> 
> Any input? Real or fake?


Got NO idea what you mean "remove all spaces"

Post the item number


----------



## televisedcollector

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

I meant remove the spaces on the link as I'm not able to post links yet. 
eBay item number:192620148777

Thank you very much.

- - - Updated - - -

I meant remove the spaces on the link as I'm not able to post links yet. 
eBay item number:192620148777

Thank you very much.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



televisedcollector said:


> I meant remove the spaces on the link as I'm not able to post links yet.
> eBay item number:192620148777
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> I meant remove the spaces on the link as I'm not able to post links yet.
> eBay item number:192620148777
> 
> Thank you very much.


FAKE
100% will report tonight
JUNK!


----------



## televisedcollector

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Awesome. Could you tell me how you knew?

Many thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

Awesome. Could you tell me how you knew?

Many thanks.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



televisedcollector said:


> Awesome. Could you tell me how you knew?
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Awesome. Could you tell me how you knew?
> 
> Many thanks.


Compare movement to a genuine P9000 caliber
I will report tonight


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

REMOVED


----------



## FabrizioRiva25

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*

I have to admit, the pictures prior to the movement pics looked legit with all the certificates and stuff. There is a big tell once you showed the movement pics, shows the watch is fake.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*



FabrizioRiva25 said:


> I have to admit, the pictures prior to the movement pics looked legit with all the certificates and stuff. There is a big tell once you showed the movement pics, shows the watch is fake.


What exactly was that?


----------



## CollectorD

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Hi, I was offered this Panerai PAM00093 Firenze edition Power Reserve. No box/papers. Here are some pics. Thoughts?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Lousy photos, I think its OK.
But need clear focussed shots of balance wheel area
A


----------



## Bosixx

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Ok, guys! Need your help on this one. I got a great deal on this watch which is realy the only reason I am questioning it.

The background-
Bought this on ebay from a seller that is all positive and has about 150 transations. He was was also selling another panerai for a great deal. Just seemed a wee bit sketchy.
I got the watch and the box looked good but the black fabric that says "panerai" that is used inside the box is sightly different from my box I purchased from Panerai. Its just a rougher, cheaper feeling materal not silky like mine. The booklet matchs my watches and the numbers printed in the booklet match the back of the case.

Any help would be great as I love this watch and hope it is authentic.


























- - - Updated - - -

Ok, guys! Need your help on this one. I got a great deal on this watch which is realy the only reason I am questioning it.

The background-
Bought this on ebay from a seller that is all positive and has about 150 transations. He was was also selling another panerai for a great deal. Just seemed a wee bit sketchy.
I got the watch and the box looked good but the black fabric that says "panerai" that is used inside the box is sightly different from my box I purchased from Panerai. Its just a rougher, cheaper feeling materal not silky like mine. The booklet matchs my watches and the numbers printed in the booklet match the back of the case.

Any help would be great as I love this watch and hope it is authentic.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



Bosixx said:


> Ok, guys! Need your help on this one. I got a great deal on this watch which is realy the only reason I am questioning it.
> 
> The background-
> Bought this on ebay from a seller that is all positive and has about 150 transations. He was was also selling another panerai for a great deal. Just seemed a wee bit sketchy.
> I got the watch and the box looked good but the black fabric that says "panerai" that is used inside the box is sightly different from my box I purchased from Panerai. Its just a rougher, cheaper feeling materal not silky like mine. The booklet matchs my watches and the numbers printed in the booklet match the back of the case.
> 
> Any help would be great as I love this watch and hope it is authentic.
> View attachment 13394645
> View attachment 13394649
> View attachment 13394657
> View attachment 13394659
> 
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Ok, guys! Need your help on this one. I got a great deal on this watch which is realy the only reason I am questioning it.
> 
> The background-
> Bought this on ebay from a seller that is all positive and has about 150 transations. He was was also selling another panerai for a great deal. Just seemed a wee bit sketchy.
> I got the watch and the box looked good but the black fabric that says "panerai" that is used inside the box is sightly different from my box I purchased from Panerai. Its just a rougher, cheaper feeling materal not silky like mine. The booklet matchs my watches and the numbers printed in the booklet match the back of the case.
> 
> Any help would be great as I love this watch and hope it is authentic.
> View attachment 13394645
> View attachment 13394649
> View attachment 13394657
> View attachment 13394659


Need clear photos of balance wheel area
Does the chronograph function flyback?? Do you understand what a flyback chrono os?
adam


----------



## Bosixx

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*















Yes, the flyback function works - One button reset and continued timing.

- - - Updated - - -















Yes, the flyback function works - One button reset and continued timing.


----------



## Bosixx

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

I attached a few photos of the balance to help.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



Bosixx said:


> I attached a few photos of the balance to help.


Please HACK (stop the watch) and take JUST photos of balance wheel ares STRAIGHT on.
I dont need angles


----------



## ToNzZ

Excuse me.. can u please identify is this pam 312 real or fake? sorry for poor shot coz I don't want to ask to much to buyer unless I'm really2 sure want to buy this PAM. Actually I'm looking for PAM 111. but around here they only have this or above my budget. thanks before.


----------



## FabrizioRiva25

I did not find the original pictures, but from what I remember I think it was the watch did not have the Y Inca-block.


----------



## ToNzZ

ToNzZ said:


> Excuse me.. can u please identify is this pam 312 real or fake? sorry for poor shot coz I don't want to ask to much to buyer unless I'm really2 sure want to buy this PAM. Actually I'm looking for PAM 111. but around here they only have this or above my budget. thanks before.


I mean I dont sant ask to much to seller unless I'm really sure want to buy this PAM.😁


----------



## FabrizioRiva25

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ...... photos to decieve
> BUT its FAKE
> If you want me to re adress post close up photos of movement balance wheel are


Yes I reply and Mr. Horologist asked me why I also thought this watch is fake. I had said with all the receipts and paperwork, one would think this watch is legit, but the big tell on the movement pics, is the Incabloc. is not the Y Incabloc. Thanks and great work on this thread guys.


----------



## ToNzZ

After looking all around the market and i didn't find any PAM 111. So i decided look back to PAM 312 Seller and after so much negotiation he gave me good deal and ask them to unwarp the plastic then here's more photo of it.. hope u guys can help me. thank you.


----------



## slowdude99

Hello, can you please check this Pam 48? looks like an H series 6625 , is the HXXXX supposed to be lazer etched also?

ebay item=183386484417


----------



## slowdude99

Hello, can you please check this Pam 48? looks like an H series 6625 , is the HXXXX supposed to be lazer etched also?

ebay item= 183386484417


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ToNzZ said:


> Excuse me.. can u please identify is this pam 312 real or fake? sorry for poor shot coz I don't want to ask to much to buyer unless I'm really2 sure want to buy this PAM. Actually I'm looking for PAM 111. but around here they only have this or above my budget. thanks before.


You can tell NOTHING from these photos
Anyone attempting to sell based on these photos is probably hiding a fake
Act with caution
Adam


----------



## slowdude99

here are some pics of the PAM 48


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

slowdude99 said:


> here are some pics of the PAM 48
> 
> View attachment 13424853
> 
> 
> View attachment 13424855
> 
> 
> View attachment 13424857
> 
> 
> View attachment 13424859
> 
> 
> View attachment 13424861
> 
> 
> View attachment 13424863


ALL USELESS


----------



## slowdude99

my apologies adam, i asked the seller for a pic of the balance wheel. Anything else i should ask them?


----------



## ldnmag86

Hello everyone,

Another request for validation please. I'm in discussion to acquire this one. It's coming without box or papers, hence the request for your input. Are we looking at the genuine article here? All advice gratefully received.

Thank you.


----------



## ldnmag86

Hello everyone,

Another request for validation please. I'm in discussion to acquire this one. It's coming without box or papers, hence the request for your input. Are we looking at the genuine article here? All advice gratefully received.

Thank you.

View attachment 13429507


View attachment 13429509


View attachment 13429511


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ldnmag86 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Another request for validation please. I'm in discussion to acquire this one. It's coming without box or papers, hence the request for your input. Are we looking at the genuine article here? All advice gratefully received.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> View attachment 13429507
> 
> 
> View attachment 13429509
> 
> 
> View attachment 13429511
> 
> 
> View attachment 13429571
> 
> 
> View attachment 13429573


Hi
Really need to see the movement to be 100% sure.
Some points make me suspicious, stopping me buying without a movement photo

Regards
adam


----------



## ToNzZ

Thank you Adam for reply.I bought it already and they give me guarantees. But can u please identify with this picture? 

thank you so much.


----------



## ldnmag86

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Hi
> Really need to see the movement to be 100% sure.
> Some points make me suspicious, stopping me buying without a movement photo
> 
> Regards
> adam


Hi Adam,

Thanks for your thoughts. I will ask the seller to supply a picture of the movement. In the meantime, which points make you suspicious?

thanks


----------



## T3C

ToNzZ said:


> Thank you Adam for reply.I bought it already and they give me guarantees. But can u please identify with this picture?
> 
> thank you so much.


m8san made some observations about the P9000 in this thread https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/panerai-identification-4777131.html#post46877833

you might wanna take a look


----------



## Slm643

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Hi, I just found a luminor marina, 8 days black for a unbelievable price! What should I look for to make sure it's real? Please help!

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ToNzZ said:


> Thank you Adam for reply.I bought it already and they give me guarantees. But can u please identify with this picture?
> 
> thank you so much.


We need to see COMPLETE balance wheel and escape wheel


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



Slm643 said:


> Hi, I just found a luminor marina, 8 days black for a unbelievable price! What should I look for to make sure it's real? Please help!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


Looks fake just from dial photos??????
Lets see the movement!


----------



## Slm643

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Looks fake just from dial photos??????
> Lets see the movement!


Best I can do.. I did a quick search on Panerai website but I now nothing about this brand..these are from the seller









Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*



Slm643 said:


> Best I can do.. I did a quick search on Panerai website but I now nothing about this brand..these are from the seller
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


FAKE!


----------



## Slm643

*Re: The &amp;quot;Is this Panerai real?&amp;quot; thread*



HOROLOGIST007 said:


> FAKE!


Any more details, like did something jump out, I mean is something obvious? The price was ridiculous I thought it was a couple decimal points off 249.

He hasn't replied yet I asked if it was still available.. 
Sent from my K92 using Tapatalk


----------



## ToNzZ

T3C said:


> ToNzZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Adam for reply.I bought it already and they give me guarantees. But can u please identify with this picture?
> 
> thank you so much.
> 
> 
> 
> m8san made some observations about the P9000 in this thread https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/panerai-identification-4777131.html#post46877833
> 
> thanks for the the link. And after i observe from my noobs eyes its look like the authentic one. haha..
> 
> you might wanna take a look
Click to expand...




HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ToNzZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you Adam for reply.I bought it already and they give me guarantees. But can u please identify with this picture?
> 
> thank you so much.
> 
> 
> 
> We need to see COMPLETE balance wheel and escape wheel
Click to expand...

thanks Adam here's my best photo, hope u can see the detail thank you.


----------



## 8Days

*Re: The &amp;quot;Is this Panerai real?&amp;quot; thread*



Slm643 said:


> Any more details, like did something jump out, I mean is something obvious? The price was ridiculous I thought it was a couple decimal points off 249.


Too many to list... dial, number colors, case back, movement, glass, winder, quality of fit and finish etc etc.


----------



## Slm643

*Re: The &amp;quot;Is this Panerai real?&amp;quot; thread*



8Days said:


> Too many to list... dial, number colors, case back, movement, glass, winder, quality of fit and finish etc etc.


Thanks, I knew they were Expensive, I was shocked to see it on LetGo! For 249.00 probably closer to 24,000.00!

Sent from my K92 using Tapatalk


----------



## cb1111

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*



Slm643 said:


> Hi, I just found a luminor marina, 8 days black for a unbelievable price! What should I look for to make sure it's real? Please help!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk





Slm643 said:


> Best I can do.. I did a quick search on Panerai website but I now nothing about this brand..these are from the seller
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk


$20 Canal street fake.


----------



## Slm643

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*



cb1111 said:


> $20 Canal street fake.


Thanks!

Sent from my K92 using Tapatalk


----------



## slowdude99

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*

Hi please verify this 177 H series: pics from ebay seller


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ToNzZ said:


> thanks Adam here's my best photo, hope u can see the detail thank you.


This IS GENUINE
No issue
adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*



slowdude99 said:


> Hi please verify this 177 H series: pics from ebay seller
> 
> View attachment 13461767
> 
> 
> View attachment 13461773
> 
> 
> View attachment 13461775
> 
> 
> View attachment 13461777


GENUINE in my opinion
Adam


----------



## slowdude99

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*

thank you Adam, cant wait to get it now!


----------



## ToNzZ

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ToNzZ said:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks Adam here's my best photo, hope u can see the detail thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> This IS GENUINE
> No issue
> adam
Click to expand...

thank you Adam. God bless..


----------



## CollectorD

Thoughts on this Panerai? Thanks!


----------



## drlvegas

CollectorD said:


> Thoughts on this Panerai? Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 13466783
> 
> View attachment 13466785


Fake. Google Y Incabloc


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

CollectorD said:


> Thoughts on this Panerai? Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 13466783
> 
> View attachment 13466785


FAKE


----------



## ToNzZ

Hi its Me again. Since i checked mine in this forum my cousin also ask me to upload his watch to legit check please kindly observe it I guess its PAM 111. thank you.


----------



## Bibbleton

https://m.ebay.com/itm/PANERAI-MENS...sid=p2349624.m43663.l44720#vi__app-cvip-panel

Just got this on eBay but haven't paid,
Waiting for some better quality pics- strap doesn't appear real.

What do you think?


----------



## Socal Sam

Is there are resident watch buster?

ebay number: 183434564766 (sorry, too new to post a link)

This one isn't even a good 1:1, if there is such a thing.


----------



## Socal Sam

Is there are resident watch buster?

ebay number: 183434564766 (sorry, too new to post a link)

This one isn't even a good 1:1, if there is such a thing.


----------



## agitlits

Hi all,

I am new here. 
Does this watch look real?
PA 312. All paperwork seems to match












.


----------



## Socal Sam

Yours looks a lot like this one:






Scratch position is close to crystal. Was crystal damaged and replaced? Do water droplet test on crystal to check for sapphire. If mineral glass, bad. Sapphire good although the best 1:1 have them so not conclusive.

It's annoying how careful you have to be on the used market.


----------



## agitlits

Thanks So cal


----------



## agitlits

The owner says that the crystal is not affected at all and was not touched. Original sapphire.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

agitlits said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am new here.
> Does this watch look real?
> PA 312. All paperwork seems to match
> View attachment 13490453
> View attachment 13490449
> .


IMPOSSIBLE to tell those photos. Need clear photos of balance eheel

Above sapphire test is pointless all fakes now use sapphire!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ToNzZ said:


> Hi its Me again. Since i checked mine in this forum my cousin also ask me to upload his watch to legit check please kindly observe it I guess its PAM 111. thank you.


Not the clearest of photos but looks genuine
A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Bibbleton said:


> https://m.ebay.com/itm/PANERAI-MENS...sid=p2349624.m43663.l44720#vi__app-cvip-panel
> 
> Just got this on eBay but haven't paid,
> Waiting for some better quality pics- strap doesn't appear real.
> 
> What do you think?


HIGHLY SUSPECT
Pictures IMpossible to confirm
A


----------



## agitlits

Thanks Horologist007


----------



## bovi

With the new replicas, it's really hard to find out.


----------



## Socal Sam

Reps are frighteningly good or bad, depending on perspective. Interestingly, while the rep guys are doing wrong, they know a ton about year to year production changes.


----------



## cb1111

Bibbleton said:


> https://m.ebay.com/itm/PANERAI-MENS...sid=p2349624.m43663.l44720#vi__app-cvip-panel
> 
> Just got this on eBay but haven't paid,
> Waiting for some better quality pics- strap doesn't appear real.
> 
> What do you think?





HOROLOGIST007 said:


> HIGHLY SUSPECT
> Pictures IMpossible to confirm
> A


 And this is why eBay is such a cesspool. There are sellers who sell counterfeits and then there are buyers who purchase an item and believe that they have an option to pay.

Once you win, you pay. Do your research before you bid. If it turns out to be counterfeit, then you deal with eBay and the seller, but not paying makes it your problem.


----------



## Socal Sam

cb1111 said:


> And this is why eBay is such a cesspool. There are sellers who sell counterfeits and then there are buyers who purchase an item and believe that they have an option to pay.
> 
> Once you win, you pay. Do your research before you bid. If it turns out to be counterfeit, then you deal with eBay and the seller, but not paying makes it your problem.


If money is in your pocket, keep it there. Never chase your own money. The buyer will have to submit photographic evidence that the watch is not real. This will not be difficult as the balance wheel is clearly in the wrong position.


----------



## Kilograph

Could I get an opinion on this PAM 111 J?
Papers dated Sept 2008.

Any important questions I should ask before dropping the coin?
I've got a list but I don't know what I don't know.

Thank you!


----------



## Socal Sam

This one is fake. Note the serial number which is seen in photos of reps.

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/jwl/d/panerai-luminor/6712553371.html


----------



## Blueroommusic

How in the heck do you post on this forum?!


----------



## Blueroommusic

Is this real? HELP!! I can't seem to figure out how to post on the actual "real or not" thread, so I'll put it here I guess. HELP!!

Okay boys and girls.. I own several Rolex and Tudor but only one other Panerai. I need to know if this one is the real deal. Thanks to everyone in advance. 

Okay PM me and I can send you an ebay link to the watch in question. Obviously I too new to post pics or an URL.


----------



## Blueroommusic

Is this real? HELP!! I can't seem to figure out how to post on the actual "real or not" thread, so I'll put it here I guess. HELP!!

Okay boys and girls.. I own several Rolex and Tudor but only one other Panerai. I need to know if this one is the real deal. Thanks to everyone in advance. 

Okay PM me and I can send you an ebay link to the watch in question. Obviously I'm too new to post pics or an URL.


----------



## Blueroommusic

Okay, the ebay item number in question is 232946009684. Thanks again for everyone's help.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Blueroommusic said:


> Okay, the ebay item number in question is 232946009684. Thanks again for everyone's help.


With 5 posts I think you can now post a link


----------



## Blueroommusic

The link.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/232946009684?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Blueroommusic said:


> The link.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/232946009684?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


GENUINE in my opinion.
A


----------



## Blueroommusic

How accurate is the Panerai customer service database? Anyone have any history using it?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Blueroommusic said:


> How accurate is the Panerai customer service database? Anyone have any history using it?


Never heard of it!!


----------



## Socal Sam

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> GENUINE in my opinion.
> A


You sure? The ebay movement looks identical to n**b. And it is different from the 448 / P3000 in this photo blog:

Panerai wristwatch photo blog: Panerai SIHH 2012 Photo Report


----------



## Blueroommusic

Possible Noob replica? No box or papers...


----------



## Socal Sam

For a 6,995 purchase, I would be very careful with ebay. Look at as many photos as you can and compare until your eyes get tired.


----------



## Blueroommusic

That's actually my posting.


----------



## Socal Sam

Blueroommusic said:


> That's actually my posting.


That's your listing? You are the seller??


----------



## Blueroommusic

Yes sir, just looking for opinions in regards to originality.


----------



## Socal Sam

Blueroommusic said:


> Yes sir, just looking for opinions in regards to originality.


I appreciate your transparency so I will tread lightly. Your concern for authenticity appears to be genuine and it is possible you were duped when buying. That's the nicest way to explain this out of all the possible motives that fit this situation. Do the right thing and de-list until you know for sure.


----------



## cb1111

Blueroommusic said:


> That's actually my posting.





Blueroommusic said:


> Yes sir, just looking for opinions in regards to originality.


 If you are unsure, then take it to an AD and get it verified - or not.


----------



## Blueroommusic

HELP! Affirmative or Negative?


----------



## FabrizioRiva25

Guys, your help is greatly appreciated with this PAM00441. F or R?

Thanks.


----------



## Socal Sam

Sad state of affairs these days when one has to look at pirate websites to authenticate. My call is gen. What's yours?

https://dtime.store/blog.php?blog=watch-review-officine-panerai-pam-441-vs-factory-super-flawless


----------



## cb1111

Socal Sam said:


> Sad state of affairs these days when one has to look at pirate websites to authenticate. My call is gen. What's yours?
> 
> https://dtime.store/blog.php?blog=watch-review-officine-panerai-pam-441-vs-factory-super-flawless


 And your point is?

Websites that sell counterfeit watches will ofter use real watches as the "counterfeit" to show no differences, but the watch you get may be far different.

Selling counterfeits is a felony - not far different from robbery. Selling counterfeits is not a petty offense so let us stop treating it like it is some elementary school prank.


----------



## Socal Sam

cb1111 said:


> And your point is?
> 
> Websites that sell counterfeit watches will ofter use real watches as the "counterfeit" to show no differences, but the watch you get may be far different.
> 
> Selling counterfeits is a felony - not far different from robbery. Selling counterfeits is not a petty offense so let us stop treating it like it is some elementary school prank.


It's clear you did not see the previous poster who asked if his 441 was real. I thought I gave him some good news. I wasn't asking you and sure hope your comment was not aimed at me.


----------



## FabrizioRiva25

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



Socal Sam said:


> Sad state of affairs these days when one has to look at pirate websites to authenticate. My call is gen. What's yours?
> 
> https://dtime.store/blog.php?blog=watch-review-officine-panerai-pam-441-vs-factory-super-flawless


Thanks for the input. I had seen the site you listed and others showing the details on the 441. There are some glaring differences between the two, specially in the back, the lettering, color, movement, etc. But yes to the untrained eye these details will be difficult to point out. I like PAMs, currently I have two, including this 441, legit/genuine(papers, warranty, box) but I am also always looking to learn more about issues with PAMs why I posted this 441 here. Thanks everyone.

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


----------



## FabrizioRiva25

cb1111 said:


> And your point is?
> 
> Websites that sell counterfeit watches will ofter use real watches as the "counterfeit" to show no differences, but the watch you get may be far different.
> 
> Selling counterfeits is a felony - not far different from robbery. Selling counterfeits is not a petty offense so let us stop treating it like it is some elementary school prank.


CB1111, I think his post shows he is in agreement with you.

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Socal Sam

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



FabrizioRiva25 said:


> Thanks for the input. I had seen the site you listed and others showing the details on the 441. There are some glaring differences between the two, specially in the back, the lettering, color, movement, etc. But yes to the untrained eye these details will be difficult to point out. I like PAMs, currently I have two, including this 441, legit/genuine(papers, warranty, box) but I am also always looking to learn more about issues with PAMs why I posted this 441 here. Thanks everyone.
> 
> Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


The differences are getting harder to spot. In the last page of this thread, a member with five digits worth of posts made a call based on the position of the balance wheel. He did not spot that some of the jewels in the candidate photos were purely cosmetic.


----------



## Socal Sam

FabrizioRiva25 said:


> CB1111, I think his post shows he is in agreement with you.
> 
> Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


Since my reply to your inquiry was at the top of a new page, I think he missed your post and your photos. That's fine. His concerns are the same as mine. I have posed a question to the mods regarding links used to authenticate candidate watches.


----------



## Blueroommusic

I just wanted some help, and insight, in regards to opinions of originality, from users that know far more about Panerai than I do. I'm well versed in many other high end watches, i.e, Rolex, Tudor, Omega, Oris, Sinn, etc. I've only had one other Panerai. Thanks guys! Keep this expert opinions rolling. lol...


----------



## cb1111

Socal Sam said:


> Since my reply to your inquiry was at the top of a new page, I think he missed your post and your photos. That's fine. His concerns are the same as mine. I have posed a question to the mods regarding links used to authenticate candidate watches.


 I did indeed miss that post and yes, we're on the same page 

All good?


----------



## CMSgt Bo

Socal Sam said:


> Since my reply to your inquiry was at the top of a new page, I think he missed your post and your photos. That's fine. His concerns are the same as mine. I have posed a question to the mods regarding links used to authenticate candidate watches.


DO NOT link to replica sites! From our rules: 9._ No discussions or pictures of replica watches, or links to replica watch sites unless previously approved by a Moderator or site Administrators. In general, any posts that involve the discussion, encouragement, or solicitation of any kind of illegal activities, whether watch-related or not, is strictly prohibited._


----------



## cb1111

Blueroommusic said:


> I just wanted some help, and insight, in regards to opinions of originality, from users that know far more about Panerai than I do. I'm well versed in many other high end watches, i.e, Rolex, Tudor, Omega, Oris, Sinn, etc. I've only had one other Panerai. Thanks guys! Keep this expert opinions rolling. lol...


 Panerai is a bit of an odd duck that I can't quite categorize - there seem to be an inordinate amount of convincing counterfeits out there for a niche market watch. Counterfeits of Panerai seem to fall into two categories - awful and convincing, with very little in between. Even Rolex has some "passable" counterfeits that would fool the casual observer.


----------



## FabrizioRiva25

*Re: The &quot;Is this Panerai real?&quot; thread*



Kilograph said:


> Could I get an opinion on this PAM 111 J?
> Papers dated Sept 2008.
> 
> Any important questions I should ask before dropping the coin?
> I've got a list but I don't know what I don't know.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> View attachment 13497469
> 
> 
> View attachment 13497475
> 
> 
> View attachment 13497479
> 
> 
> View attachment 13497483


This is a 2007 PAM. With that said this seems very much Legit. Included is a pic of the back of another 2007 PAM 111 from Chrono. If I am not mistaken the COSC card has a number that should be engraved on the inside of the watch, and also on those little white tags. They should match. What price is it or was it going for?, if you dont mind me asking.









Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Socal Sam

cb1111 said:


> I did indeed miss that post and yes, we're on the same page
> 
> All good?


Yes, of course. Like you, I find it maddening that used watch buyers must become experts in order to self-authenticate.


----------



## Socal Sam

CMSgt Bo said:


> DO NOT link to replica sites! From our rules: 9._ No discussions or pictures of replica watches, or links to replica watch sites unless previously approved by a Moderator or site Administrators. In general, any posts that involve the discussion, encouragement, or solicitation of any kind of illegal activities, whether watch-related or not, is strictly prohibited._


Rule acknowledged. It will not happen again.


----------



## Blueroommusic

MAN! I guess no one here, can give me a definitive answer? Will the real experts "please stand up".


----------



## Socal Sam

Blueroommusic said:


> MAN! I guess no one here, can give me a definitive answer? Will the real experts "please stand up".


I wouldn't buy your watch. Some of the jewels are purely cosmetic and do not have a gear wheel. You have seen the evidence and in the previous page, you made the right call. Do the right thing and de-list. Then go to an authorized dealer and have them authenticate.


----------



## Mirabello1

I have seen a AD's fooled more than once when it comes to fakes unfortunately... Like it has been said before the fakes are becoming closer and closer too authentic

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Socal Sam

Mirabello1 said:


> I have seen a AD's fooled more than once when it comes to fakes unfortunately... Like it has been said before the fakes are becoming closer and closer too authentic
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


That's frightening. I've seen fake Panerai in what appears to be a reputable dealer's website. If I buy used, I will demand they open a solid case back.


----------



## sleepybubba

Can someone help. Got this off ebay, i think its fake. Please help


























Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## James Russle

sleepybubba said:


> Can someone help. Got this off ebay, i think its fake. Please help
> View attachment 13575857
> View attachment 13575859
> View attachment 13575861
> View attachment 13575863
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


that's a bad fake, open a case immediately.


----------



## sleepybubba

James Russle said:


> that's a bad fake, open a case immediately.


Thanks, i did.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## HOROLOGIST007

sleepybubba said:


> Can someone help. Got this off ebay, i think its fake. Please help
> View attachment 13575857
> View attachment 13575859
> View attachment 13575861
> View attachment 13575863
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


No need to open up.
Complete FAKE
Should use the UNITAS 6497 movements
Its TERRIBLE
Get onto eBay immediately, any issue PM me
Adam


----------



## cb1111

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> No need to open up.
> Complete FAKE
> Should use the UNITAS 6497 movements
> Its TERRIBLE
> Get onto eBay immediately, any issue PM me
> Adam


 I think he meant "open a case with eBay" - not "open the watch case"


----------



## sleepybubba

Hi guys, me again (blushes). Is this one real or not? The condition is poor and the LSWISSL makes me wonder...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

sleepybubba said:


> Hi guys, me again (blushes). Is this one real or not? The condition is poor and the LSWISSL makes me wonder...


PAM 111?
FAKE


----------



## slowdude99

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PANERAI-LU...h=item23ad723fe0:g:j7MAAOSwikJb005E:rk:2:pf:0

fake 177?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

slowdude99 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PANERAI-LU...h=item23ad723fe0:g:j7MAAOSwikJb005E:rk:2:pf:0
> 
> fake 177?
> 
> View attachment 13610095


Yes Fake


----------



## slowdude99

Ive reported it, but its still posted on eBay


----------



## cruzmisl

Hi All,

I finally rejoined the Panerai club after a 15 year hiatus. I was the proud owner of a Pam 50 and have regretted selling that watch ever since.

I tried on the 422 and immediately feel in love. I got a fair deal on the new watch and it came with everything but the Panerai warranty card. I'm assuming that's to protect the AD.

The watch looks legit but I've been out of the game so long I'd like confirmation. Thanks for the help and I look forward too participating in the forums again.

Joe


----------



## FabrizioRiva25

Looks legit to me.... 

Sent from my Mi A2 using Tapatalk


----------



## CryzGT23

Hi everybody, i found a Panerai Luminor Pam 533 on Ebay that i would like to buy. What do you guys think is it fake or real? The seller has 0 feedback and this is what worries me. I am waiting for your opinions.Thanks in advance.


----------



## cruzmisl

$5k for an $11k watch with several complications?? Sounds strange to me. I'm not familiar with the watch but the band doesn't look to sit properly relative to the case. Furthermore the lack feedback and this update "I will ship to the highest bidder. I won’t relist" also rouses suspicion. It's a no reserve auction so the highest bidder is getting it despite his threat of not relisting. Lastly, the grammar of the listing is poor. I don't expect people to be scholars but basic punctuation should be expected. I'd stay away. For comparison, my eBay seller had been a member since 2004 and has 5500 positive feedbacks

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## CryzGT23

I totally agree with you. Thank you.


----------



## cruzmisl

No problem. I'm a newb but something doesn't smell right with it. If it is legit, that's the deal of the decade. Another thing, if the watch sells for $5500 the fees associated with the sale are around $700. Any reputable online buyer or even local buyer would happily pay $5k for it so why the trouble and effort with eBay? 

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


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## HOROLOGIST007

Watch looks fake
And the ONLY part that may reveal it is covered


----------



## cruzmisl

Someone fell for it. It sold for just under $5500 :-/

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


----------



## Carbonman

Can you guys help a brother out and let me know if I have a Genuine 390?



























Thanks for any help!

CM


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Carbonman said:


> Can you guys help a brother out and let me know if I have a Genuine 390?
> 
> View attachment 13679735
> View attachment 13679737
> View attachment 13679739
> View attachment 13679741
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help!
> 
> CM


Need to see movement


----------



## Carbonman

Horologist,

I attached a picture of the movement in my above thread, but here is another.









Thanks for your help!
CM


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Carbonman said:


> Horologist,
> 
> I attached a picture of the movement in my above thread, but here is another.
> 
> View attachment 13680151
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> CM


Link does not work, please just post a photo


----------



## Carbonman

Horologist,

Very strange as I'm not linking the pictures. I'm posting them directly. Let's see if this works as an attachment.

Thank you,
CM


----------



## Synequano

Looks fake to me...


----------



## Carbonman

Synequano said:


> Looks fake to me...


I compared it to so many stock photos, but could not find anything off. Which part should I be looking at?

Thank you for your opinion.

CM


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Its FAKE


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Carbonman said:


> I compared it to so many stock photos, but could not find anything off. Which part should I be looking at?
> 
> Thank you for your opinion.
> 
> CM


Its FAKE
WALK


----------



## Carbonman

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Its FAKE


Horologist,

Thank you! I know you don't reveal what gives it away, but anything I should be looking in the area of so I can find it myself? You can PM me if best. I need to prove it to seller since I have it in my possession and already own it.

Thanks again!
CM


----------



## cruzmisl

Carbonman said:


> I need to prove it to seller since I have it in my possession and already own it.


Oh boy.....sad to hear that. I hope it works it for you.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Carbonman said:


> Horologist,
> 
> Thank you! I know you don't reveal what gives it away, but anything I should be looking in the area of so I can find it myself? You can PM me if best. I need to prove it to seller since I have it in my possession and already own it.
> 
> Thanks again!
> CM


pleasure
Best just to post here.
I am not so active on WUS, but I do respond on Panerai


----------



## Carbonman

If anyone else wants to clue me in on what gives this away, please PM me. I want to be able to point it out to seller, whom may have not known it was fake himself. 

Thank you all!
CM


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Carbonman said:


> If anyone else wants to clue me in on what gives this away, please PM me. I want to be able to point it out to seller, whom may have not known it was fake himself.
> 
> Thank you all!
> CM


You can tell him its fake and he can mail me for proof
[email protected]

If its on eBay give me a link and I will get it removed immediately


----------



## Carbonman

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> You can tell him its fake and he can mail me for proof
> [email protected]
> 
> If its on eBay give me a link and I will get it removed immediately


No, not an eBay deal. I have it in my possession already. I'm sending it in to Panerai service for authentication.
Thanks again!
CM


----------



## cruzmisl

Carbonman said:


> I'm sending it in to Panerai service for authentication.


What's the purpose of that?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

My correction and apologies
Back home.
Looking on my PC
Its all correct
Movement is legit and genuine

Adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

cruzmisl said:


> What's the purpose of that?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


Watch is genuine!


----------



## cruzmisl

Ahhh, that makes sense now 

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

cruzmisl said:


> What's the purpose of that?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


Watch is genuine!


----------



## Carbonman

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Watch is genuine!


Wait...what? Now very confused.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Carbonman said:


> Wait...what? Now very confused.


As I posted above and by seperate eMail.
Watch is surely genuine.
My error
adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Carbonman said:


> Wait...what? Now very confused.


As I posted above and by seperate eMail.
Watch is surely genuine.
My error
adam


----------



## Carbonman

Got it. OK...phewwww...

Thank you Adam!

CM


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Carbonman said:


> Got it. OK...phewwww...
> 
> Thank you Adam!
> 
> CM


No problem my error
Please tell the seller MY mistake - sorry
a


----------



## Synequano

I've seen a suspected 390 (sans B&P) being opened,but it has swan neck,it's surprising that the real deal actually doesn't have swan neck on the movt....


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Synequano said:


> I've seen a suspected 390 (sans B&P) being opened,but it has swan neck,it's surprising that the real deal actually doesn't have swan neck on the movt....


Seems some (limited edition) do not??
A


----------



## Carbonman

Yes, some of the fakes do have the Swan Neck, but the boutique special editions do not. Of course, I was able to find a fake without the swan neck as well. Scary how accurate they're getting.

Thanks again for all of the help.

Best,
CM


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Carbonman said:


> Yes, some of the fakes do have the Swan Neck, but the boutique special editions do not. Of course, I was able to find a fake without the swan neck as well. Scary how accurate they're getting.
> 
> Thanks again for all of the help.
> 
> Best,
> CM


Indeed most fakes have Swan Necks


----------



## FabrizioRiva25

Nice piece, and good scare they gave you...😁😁


----------



## murokello

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> As I posted above and by seperate eMail.
> Watch is surely genuine.
> My error
> adam


Adam hold your horses next time.


----------



## Ajowhan

Hi, would you guys be able to help me authenticate this pam 244 from this pictures? Thank you!


----------



## Ajowhan

Hi, would you guys be able to help me authenticate this pam 244 from this pictures? Thank you!
View attachment 13690509

View attachment 13690507

View attachment 13690513

View attachment 13690515

View attachment 13690519

View attachment 13690521

View attachment 13690523


----------



## bigclive2011

Why do you think it might be a fake??


----------



## sleepybubba

Hi guys, does this look real? I know the pictures are bad and I would've asked the seller for a better ones, but I came across this auction last minute and had to bid first, ask later. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Synequano

The movt overall finishing looks a bit suspicious to me,will need better pictures of the incabloc and swan neck area


----------



## mercur1al

Hi, just picked up this watch used.

Could i get some assistance to verify its authenticity? Thanks!


----------



## sleepybubba

Hi guys, found a 312. Looks genuine to me but I am new to Panerai, so definitely could use some expert opinion.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

SUSPICIOUS TO ME


----------



## sleepybubba

Thanks. Which part if you don't mind.


----------



## detyianni

Thoughts on this 392? I am linking to my reddit post for all the photos. Thanks!


----------



## detyianni

detyianni said:


> Thoughts on this 392? I am linking to my reddit post for all the photos. Thanks!




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/panerai/comments/a5jmf3


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

detyianni said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/panerai/comments/a5jmf3


Practically impossible to tell from those photos
BUT
I suspect fake
a


----------



## detyianni

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Practically impossible to tell from those photos
> BUT
> I suspect fake
> a


Ok here's the situation. Maybe this will help. It's an odd story. This all transpired the last few days. In one of the photo's the seller showed me a photos of a business card with a store name on it. I called the store gave the serial number and they provided me with the receipt that the watch was sold in 2014. This is a legit AD in FL with a few stores. The person it was sold on the invoice to is the same name as the person on the business card. The person I am looking to buy it from said they paid about $1700 more than what the receipt says. He bought it direct from this person from the card online. So the person that sold it had a "fake" card like they worked for the real store. And most likely sold it to the person I am trying to buy it from at a profit.

Short explanation. I actually tracked down the serial number and got a receipt from the AD store it was bought from the name on the receipt matches the name of the person that sold the watch to the person I am trying to buy it from now.

Now what do you think?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

detyianni said:


> Ok here's the situation. Maybe this will help. It's an odd story. This all transpired the last few days. In one of the photo's the seller showed me a photos of a business card with a store name on it. I called the store gave the serial number and they provided me with the receipt that the watch was sold in 2014. This is a legit AD in FL with a few stores. The person it was sold on the invoice to is the same name as the person on the business card. The person I am looking to buy it from said they paid about $1700 more than what the receipt says. He bought it direct from this person from the card online. So the person that sold it had a "fake" card like they worked for the real store. And most likely sold it to the person I am trying to buy it from at a profit.
> 
> Short explanation. I actually tracked down the serial number and got a receipt from the AD store it was bought from the name on the receipt matches the name of the person that sold the watch to the person I am trying to buy it from now.
> 
> Now what do you think?


you completely lost me!

Based on the photos, I suspect fake. Send me a PM video of the watch running and I will authenticate or not 100%
Adam


----------



## detyianni

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> you completely lost me!
> 
> Based on the photos, I suspect fake. Send me a PM video of the watch running and I will authenticate or not 100%
> Adam


Thank you so much. I will get a video from the seller. let me try and break this down.

The seller (A) who i am looking to buy the watch from had a photo of a business card with a store on it and said he bought it from this person (B) over the phone. 
I called the store on the card and actually have the receipt with the name of person (B) that they did by the watch. 
person (B) never worked at the store that sold the watch to person (A) person (B) had a business card that said they were affiliated with the store but never were. I am assuming person (B) bought the watch to flip for profit which they did to person (A).


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

detyianni said:


> Thank you so much. I will get a video from the seller. let me try and break this down.
> 
> The seller (A) who i am looking to buy the watch from had a photo of a business card with a store on it and said he bought it from this person (B) over the phone.
> I called the store on the card and actually have the receipt with the name of person (B) that they did by the watch.
> person (B) never worked at the store that sold the watch to person (A) person (B) had a business card that said they were affiliated with the store but never were. I am assuming person (B) bought the watch to flip for profit which they did to person (A).


What a farse.
Story adds to my 'fake' suspicion
Sorry its meaningless to me.
Does "by" mean 'buy'


----------



## detyianni

yes by = buy sorry I was typing quickly. 

I will try and get a video Thank you.


----------



## mercur1al

Hi Adam, possible for you to help me take a look at the photos I put up earlier? If they are Too unclear let me know, I’ll try taking other photos. Thanks!


----------



## detyianni

Videos of the watch running front and back! Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Quin44

Just bought is it fake


----------



## murokello

Quin44 said:


> Just bought is it fake


Hahhaaa what a joke.


----------



## Synequano

OMG,what is seen cannot be unseen


----------



## dredzz

Is this real life ?


----------



## cb1111

Quin44 said:


> Just bought is it fake


To be very clear, the watch is counterfeit. The seller is guilty of felony fraud.


----------



## transporter305

Removed due to the lack of responses


----------



## bh.keats

Can any provide their opinion if this watch is real or fake?

eBay item number:233047271098

The forum would not let me post a link because im new


----------



## bh.keats

Can any provide their opinion if this watch is real or fake?

eBay item number:233047271098

The forum would not let me post a link because im new


----------



## cruzmisl

Broken strap, no history and new seller makes me nervous even if it's legit, which I'm not the resident expert. No box or papers mentioned makes me feel you can find a nicer deal on a better piece

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


----------



## bh.keats

cruzmisl said:


> Broken strap, no history and new seller makes me nervous even if it's legit, which I'm not the resident expert. No box or papers mentioned makes me feel you can find a nicer deal on a better piece
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


Me too... I was offering him $2100 which would seem to be a good deal to me, as long as it's authentic. I could be totally wrong. Below is his latest response to my questions:

New message from: dvcruz0088 (4)
Can you provide additional photos of the issue with the strap? What exactly is wrong with the strap? One part of the strap is broken because of normal wear & tear. It is leather, SO it could be resown & work OR it provides the opportunity to buy a new color or material strap is you wanted!
Does the metal clasp function properly? Perfectly!

Where did you get the watch? Watch was my grandfather's. I have had it since this September.

Does it come with the original box and / or papers such as the directions and receipt? My grandfather, unfortunately, did not keep those things. He collected watches for pure pleasure, I don't think he ever considered selling them. lol

Why are you selling it? Not my style.

Do you know when it was last serviced? It was serviced earlier this year, but I do not have specific date. I have kept it in my watch winder since September, and it is keeping time precisely.

Can you provide additional photos of the inner case back / outer case back / crown / movement / serial number(s) / lugs / strap / buckle, etc.? I can provide more photos later today.


----------



## murokello

bh.keats said:


> Me too... I was offering him $2100 which would seem to be a good deal to me, as long as it's authentic. I could be totally wrong. Below is his latest response to my questions:
> 
> New message from: dvcruz0088 (4)
> Can you provide additional photos of the issue with the strap? What exactly is wrong with the strap? One part of the strap is broken because of normal wear & tear. It is leather, SO it could be resown & work OR it provides the opportunity to buy a new color or material strap is you wanted!
> Does the metal clasp function properly? Perfectly!
> 
> Where did you get the watch? Watch was my grandfather's. I have had it since this September.
> 
> Does it come with the original box and / or papers such as the directions and receipt? My grandfather, unfortunately, did not keep those things. He collected watches for pure pleasure, I don't think he ever considered selling them. lol
> 
> Why are you selling it? Not my style.
> 
> Do you know when it was last serviced? It was serviced earlier this year, but I do not have specific date. I have kept it in my watch winder since September, and it is keeping time precisely.
> 
> Can you provide additional photos of the inner case back / outer case back / crown / movement / serial number(s) / lugs / strap / buckle, etc.? I can provide more photos later today.


Grandfather's = fake watch


----------



## cruzmisl

I have kept it in my watch winder since September, and it is keeping time precisely.


Riiiiight! 

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


----------



## redhed18

bh.keats said:


> One part of the strap is broken (...) provides the opportunity to buy a new color or material strap if you wanted!


Amazing opportunity!


----------



## ZZQ

Hi All, can help if this is 237 is real?


----------



## Synequano

The caseback of 237 seems correct as I have 24H and the serial number is blurry and shallow like that (the fake H series have better printing,ironically),however I don't know much about movements as I've never opened the caseback of my 24 myself....


----------



## angjigao

Hey guys, I'm new here. I have just inherited a Panerai watch from a family member. I'm wondering if it is real and if it is, what model is it? I can't seem to find anything on it online, leading me to think it is fake. I've considered sending it for authentication, however it'll cost around US$200+ which is pretty pricey for me. Hope you guys can help. Pictures here: https://imgur.com/a/sHBlpT4


----------



## arogle1stus

headwound:
I gotta quit looking at any PAM related posts.
Lusting for a PAM is making me crazy and depressed.
I need to either start a drug cartel or enter politics so
I'd have the money to buy one.

X Traindriver Art


----------



## ridley

angjigao said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here. I have just inherited a Panerai watch from a family member. I'm wondering if it is real and if it is, what model is it? I can't seem to find anything on it online, leading me to think it is fake. I've considered sending it for authentication, however it'll cost around US$200+ which is pretty pricey for me. Hope you guys can help. Pictures here:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/sHBlpT4


It,s fake.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

angjigao said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here. I have just inherited a Panerai watch from a family member. I'm wondering if it is real and if it is, what model is it? I can't seem to find anything on it online, leading me to think it is fake. I've considered sending it for authentication, however it'll cost around US$200+ which is pretty pricey for me. Hope you guys can help. Pictures here:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/sHBlpT4


Post photos


----------



## cb1111

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Post photos


 He did - in the imgur link.

It is fake, but everyone here knew that as soon as he said "got this from a family member"


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

cb1111 said:


> He did - in the imgur link.
> 
> It is fake, but everyone here knew that as soon as he said "got this from a family member"


I did not click on the link.
I dont remember seeing you in Panerai watchbuster.
Most of us at least here go on photos and not abstract emotions
A


----------



## cb1111

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I did not click on the link.
> *I dont remember seeing you in Panerai watchbuster.*
> Most of us at least here go on photos and not abstract emotions
> A


 Then you need to look again.

The linked photo is quite obviously counterfeit - that has nothing to do with emotions. Not my fault that you didn't see the link.

What HAS to do with emotions is you continually trying to post snide comments quoting one of my posts. It almost feels as if you are stalking me.

I think it is well versed that many (most? all?) posts that start with "I got this from a friend/relative/dead relative/ found it in an attic" turn out to be very poor fakes - just like this one. And yes, I think of us that frequent a fake busters forum smile to ourselves and say "I can't wait to see this piece of junk" when we see that introduction - you included but you won't admit it.

Of course, sometimes we are pleasantly surprised.


----------



## transporter305

Anybody cares to analyze this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/183625816734?ul_noapp=true


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

transporter305 said:


> Anybody cares to analyze this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/183625816734?ul_noapp=true


Fake
A


----------



## Synequano

Looks like a deformed 422/312 mashup


----------



## transporter305

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Fake
> A


I kind of suspected that part. It wasn't even trying to be 111, lol. And gone now! The seller with 100% feedback too...


----------



## cb1111

transporter305 said:


> I kind of suspected that part. It wasn't even trying to be 111, lol. And gone now! The seller with 100% feedback too...


Some crooked buyers will sell lots of cheap items to get that 100% feedback and then sell some high value counterfeits. We don't know what the seller's other items were since the link goes nowhere now.

Others will just hijack a good account and sell counterfeits that way.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

transporter305 said:


> I kind of suspected that part. It wasn't even trying to be 111, lol. And gone now! The seller with 100% feedback too...


Yes, I reported it and strangely its gone
As have all 111 postings to me


----------



## transporter305

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yes, I reported it and strangely its gone
> As have all 111 postings to me


It's not strange than. Ebay has it removed because of your report. Thank you for that! It is scary to shop for a used 111/112 these days if you're not an expert. Fake watches and schemers everywhere. Paneristi, timezone, ebay... I ended up getting a 510 instead as my first PAM. I hope it is genuine b-)


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

transporter305 said:


> It's not strange than. Ebay has it removed because of your report. Thank you for that! It is scary to shop for a used 111/112 these days if you're not an expert. Fake watches and schemers everywhere. Paneristi, timezone, ebay... I ended up getting a 510 instead as my first PAM. I hope it is genuine b-)


Thanks your kind words. I am only here to "try" to help versus others for only put downs

Panerai is very heavily and well faked, understanding their movements is the only way.

Happy to check out your 510

Regards


----------



## transporter305

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> ...
> Happy to check out your 510
> 
> Regards


Sure, I'd really appreciate it. I'll pm you the pictures if it's ok. Let me know. Thx!


----------



## transporter305

Double post deleted


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

transporter305 said:


> Sure, I'd really appreciate it. I'll pm you the pictures if it's ok. Let me know. Thx!


Yes PM me
Is fine
Regards
A


----------



## transporter305

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yes PM me
> Is fine
> Regards
> A


This thread didn't work for me, leaving one pic to show how the authentic 510 looks like. Cheers!


----------



## murokello

angjigao said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here. I have just inherited a Panerai watch from a family member. I'm wondering if it is real and if it is, what model is it? I can't seem to find anything on it online, leading me to think it is fake. I've considered sending it for authentication, however it'll cost around US$200+ which is pretty pricey for me. Hope you guys can help. Pictures here:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/sHBlpT4


Inherited Panerai = always fake


----------



## murokello

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Yes, I reported it and strangely its gone
> As have all 111 postings to me


I also reported it.


----------



## cb1111

murokello said:


> I also reported it.


Good job in getting it removed murokello!

Unless you are speaking with someone at eBay on the phone (usually through the law enforcement channels but manufacturers talk lawyer to lawyer too), there is no way to tell who got an item removed - it is just chest thumping on Adam's part. He has gone on record in the Rolex forum that he only reports things to eBay like most here - using the "report item" link.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

You need movement photos


----------



## transporter305

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> You need movement photos


Pics removed, auth. verified by the Panerai store. Thank you! b-)


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Sorry
Please take the photo with balance wheel stopped (hacked)
A


----------



## MattyMac

Quin44 said:


> Just bought is it fake


LOL, good one.


----------



## Kernbs87

Hello all, this is my first posting,

Looking to get my first Panerai, and really like the look of the Radiomir (just not a big fan of the crown guards on the other models) and i was scouring the Bay's and came across this watch. Not looking specifically to get this watch, as it has the crown guard, but in my research i havent been able to see one photo of this watch with a crown guard, except for a vintage piece i found on google images from 1995, but it doesnt have the small seconds dial. Anyone run across on Radiomir like this. Owner says its over 11 years old. He doesnt have box or papers (red flag 1), nor could he give me the Ref # (flag 2). Anyone have any idea. ONly going for about $820 at the time of this posting, so thats another flag for me too.


----------



## CMSgt Bo

That's a bad replica of a Panerai OP 6511.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

CMSgt Bo said:


> That's a bad replica of a Panerai OP 6511.


I concurr


----------



## cruzmisl

(just not a big fan of the crown guards on the other models)


BLASPHEMY! 

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


----------



## Kernbs87

I know, I know, but i really prefer the Radiomir Line, espically the California, PAM00424 or the S.L.C Pam00425. Like more simplistic watches without a lot on the dial, except for my dive watches. Now just got to find a good one on the used market.


----------



## AL9C1

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Here have fun with this one. Lol


----------



## Notorious972

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



AL9C1 said:


> Here have fun with this one. Lol


What's that?

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## AL9C1

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



Notorious972 said:


> What's that?
> 
> Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


448 right? 
Lol


----------



## sleepybubba

Hi guys, me again. Still without a Panerai because I am being overly cautious. Can anyone help to identify how real does this one look. The pictures are not much to work with, but still hopeful to get a useful advice.


----------



## AL9C1

Dude just buy a straight not real one like I did and forget about it. Lol


----------



## sleepybubba

AL9C1 said:


> Dude just buy a straight not real one like I did and forget about it. Lol


An example of the answer that makes people not wanting to ask for an advice.


----------



## AL9C1

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



Notorious972 said:


> What's that?
> 
> Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


It's a Dievas. Just messing around. This thread is pretty informative and kinda scary. Can't trust people any more.


----------



## HilltopMichael

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



AL9C1 said:


> 448 right?
> Lol


That's not a PAM448. Don't know what brand name is stamped on the back, but if it's stamped "Panerai" it's a fake.


----------



## AL9C1

*Re: The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



HilltopMichael said:


> That's not a PAM448. Don't know what brand name is stamped on the back, but if it's stamped "Panerai" it's a fake.


Lmao we prefer homage.


----------



## AlBundy

So, I meet this «money man» at a party, bragging about his cars and watches. Something seems off to me about this guy... He is wearing a Panerai and I ask to see it. Does it look real to you experts?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

AlBundy said:


> So, I meet this «money man» at a party, bragging about his cars and watches. Something seems off to me about this guy... He is wearing a Panerai and I ask to see it. Does it look real to you experts?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope 
Looks fake, but would need a better photo of balance wheel area straight on to 100% confirm
Currently "the jury is out"
Adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

AlBundy said:


> So, I meet this «money man» at a party, bragging about his cars and watches. Something seems off to me about this guy... He is wearing a Panerai and I ask to see it. Does it look real to you experts?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope 
Looks fake, but would need a better photo of balance wheel area straight on to 100% confirm
Currently "the jury is out"
Adam


----------



## lvt

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Nope
> Looks fake, but would need a better photo of balance wheel area straight on to 100% confirm
> Currently "the jury is out"
> Adam


That's the Asian 6497 like this one


----------



## lvt

The Pam of the "money man" has the same movement usually used in the Parnis Panerai.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

lvt said:


> That's the Asian 6497 like this one


Sorry, not correct.
The watch posted, which I am still believing is FAKE is using the ETA (UNITAS) 6497 movement NOT the SEAGUL copy.
A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

lvt said:


> That's the Asian 6497 like this one


Sorry, not correct.
The watch posted, which I am still believing is FAKE is using the ETA (UNITAS) 6497 movement NOT the SEAGUL copy.
A


----------



## lvt

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Sorry, not correct.
> The watch posted, which I am still believing is FAKE is using the ETA (UNITAS) 6497 movement NOT the SEAGUL copy.
> A


Yes, could be either Unitas or Seagull.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

lvt said:


> Yes, could be either Unitas or Seagull.


NO IT canNOT
Please do a bit of research!


----------



## lvt

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> NO IT canNOT
> Please do a bit of research!


I'm not expert in watch movements, the 6497s look similar to me. Seagull also has the same movement with swan neck.

And homage watch makers don't reply on a sole movements supplier. They could buy from any source that is available at good prices.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

lvt said:


> I'm not expert in watch movements, the 6497s look similar to me. Seagull also has the same movement with swan neck.
> 
> And homage watch makers don't reply on a sole movements supplier. They could buy from any source that is available at good prices.


There is only 1 source of copy UNITAS 6497 movement - seagul.
But its different to UNITAS
END


----------



## ndrs63

zegeli said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Be careful out there buying watches! The fakes are so good these days its probably impossible to tell by looking at photos. Here is a $300USD (Including shipping) replica. These are photos from the actual watch. I actually compared them to an authentic PAM112 for quite some time and I cannot find a single diference between them. They have copied everything 1to1 including the swan neck. Here are the photos of a superfake:
> 
> View attachment 13300017
> 
> 
> View attachment 13300019


Nothing worried me on this thread as much as this one. I learned to spot the "obvious" fakes. this one freaks me out. Is it now confirmed that it's a fake? It looks 100% genuine.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ndrs63 said:


> Nothing worried me on this thread as much as this one. I learned to spot the "obvious" fakes. this one freaks me out. Is it now confirmed that it's a fake? It looks 100% genuine.


Who say it was fake?


----------



## ndrs63

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Who say it was fake?


The OP, unless I'm reading incorrectly (hopefully)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ndrs63 said:


> The OP, unless I'm reading incorrectly (hopefully)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Link to that post?


----------



## ndrs63

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Link to that post?


This post, reply is on page 204. Date: July 13th 2018. No way to link directly to that specific reply. You (HOROLOGIST007) asked for receipt, which he never supplied, or at least I could not find. The good news is that the individual (zegeli) has only 3 posts on WUS, hence cannot be fully trusted. He may have had some ulterior motive...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ndrs63 said:


> This post, reply is on page 204. Date: July 13th 2018. No way to link directly to that specific reply. You (HOROLOGIST007) asked for receipt, which he never supplied, or at least I could not find. The good news is that the individual (zegeli) has only 3 posts on WUS, hence cannot be fully trusted. He may have had some ulterior motive...


Still pretty sure that is genuine.
I have $600 fakes (for my courses) and they are not like that.
A


----------



## ndrs63

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Still pretty sure that is genuine.
> I have $600 fakes (for my courses) and they are not like that.
> A


That's music to my ears 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ndrs63

Here is mine. Got 2 weeks to return it, if it's fake. There is one thing that bothers me.







Want to hear the opinion of experts (Adam)














































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ndrs63 said:


> Here is mine. Got 2 weeks to return it, if it's fake. There is one thing that bothers me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to hear the opinion of experts (Adam)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Couple (like 3) concerns me - that said the photos are useless!

Need clear photos of balance wheel area to confirm or deny.
But based on what I can see - more fake than genuine
A


----------



## JuanPablo046

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Couple (like 3) concerns me - that said the photos are useless!
> 
> Need clear photos of balance wheel area to confirm or deny.
> But based on what I can see - more fake than genuine
> A


Looks fake to me.
Dial, back engravements and case pin


----------



## JuanPablo046

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Couple (like 3) concerns me - that said the photos are useless!
> 
> Need clear photos of balance wheel area to confirm or deny.
> But based on what I can see - more fake than genuine
> A


What to you think of this PAM392?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

JuanPablo046 said:


> Looks fake to me.
> Dial, back engravements and case pin.
> 
> What to you think of this PAM392?
> 
> View attachment 13905237
> 
> View attachment 13905239
> 
> View attachment 13905241


Worse photos than the previous OP
AND worse the most important are "discreetly" covered.

A


----------



## ndrs63

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Couple (like 3) concerns me - that said the photos are useless!
> 
> Need clear photos of balance wheel area to confirm or deny.
> But based on what I can see - more fake than genuine
> A


I did my best with a DSLR this time. Let me know your diagnosis. Thank you!!

View attachment DSC_4907.jpg

View attachment DSC_4908.jpg

View attachment DSC_4909.jpg

View attachment DSC_4910.jpg

View attachment DSC_4911.jpg


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ndrs63 said:


> I did my best with a DSLR this time. Let me know your diagnosis. Thank you!!
> 
> View attachment 13905325
> 
> View attachment 13905327
> 
> View attachment 13905329
> 
> View attachment 13905331
> 
> View attachment 13905335


Sorry
Its FAKE
As I suspected
Get a claim in
A


----------



## JuanPablo046

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Worse photos than the previous OP
> AND worse the most important are "discreetly" covered.
> 
> A


Best pics available I'm afraid. I've looked them closely and couldn't find anything suspicious


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

JuanPablo046 said:


> Best pics available I'm afraid. I've looked them closely and couldn't find anything suspicious


Good for you
A


----------



## JuanPablo046

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Good for you
> A


I'll take your advise on this one... "NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT."


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

JuanPablo046 said:


> I'll take your advise on this one... "NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT."


Nothing to argue.
The photos of the watch are not good enough for me.
Box looks OK, so its your call.
Nothing more nothing less
A


----------



## ndrs63

Adam,
Would you be able to weigh in on this one? I know the pics are not that great, however, I don't have the watch in my possession.

Thanks!!



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ndrs63 said:


> Adam,
> Would you be able to weigh in on this one? I know the pics are not that great, however, I don't have the watch in my possession.
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry. I can not tell either way from those photos
a


----------



## Luisvazquez98056

Hello, new to the site and the watch community but was going to be purchasing a Pam1312 this weekend found one on Craigslist that looks legit but seem that it’s even harder to spot a fake than I thought. Any idea if it’s authentic or a replica? Thank you in advance.


----------



## ndrs63

Luisvazquez98056 said:


> Hello, new to the site and the watch community but was going to be purchasing a Pam1312 this weekend found one on Craigslist that looks legit but seem that it's even harder to spot a fake than I thought. Any idea if it's authentic or a replica? Thank you in advance.


The fact that it's on Craigslist and the dealer is from Hong Kong, where I got to see the largest ever market of fakes, are red flags for me. That being said, doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. Wait for Adam's feedback

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Luisvazquez98056 said:


> Hello, new to the site and the watch community but was going to be purchasing a Pam1312 this weekend found one on Craigslist that looks legit but seem that it's even harder to spot a fake than I thought. Any idea if it's authentic or a replica? Thank you in advance.


Mmm
Blurred photos, balance wheel covered = all suspicious signs
Paperwork looks legit, but we can not even confirm if its for that watch.

Needs better photos
adam


----------



## Michael123

PAM 177 - titanium - N Serial
Is it real ?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Michael123 said:


> PAM 177 - titanium - N Serial
> Is it real ?
> 
> View attachment 13926871
> 
> View attachment 13926867
> 
> View attachment 13926873
> 
> View attachment 13926875
> 
> View attachment 13926877
> 
> View attachment 13926881


GENUINE in my opinion
A


----------



## CryzGT23

Good evening everybody

I found a Panerai Luminor 1950 8 days Monopulsante , but my question would be if it is real or fake? thank you in advance.


----------



## Luisvazquez98056

Thank you for taking the time to check, I didn’t even bother went to AD plan on purchasing new, it’s too much money to take a chance in my opinion, thank you again.


----------



## marshmallow21

Hi All,
New to this thread, am interested in buying this PAM104 from 2011.
Could you please tell me if it is authentic. Buyer states it comes complete with paperwork and box.
Thank you in advance.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

marshmallow21 said:


> Hi All,
> New to this thread, am interested in buying this PAM104 from 2011.
> Could you please tell me if it is authentic. Buyer states it comes complete with paperwork and box.
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> View attachment 13942395
> 
> View attachment 13942397
> 
> View attachment 13942399
> 
> View attachment 13942401
> 
> View attachment 13942403


I thinks its GENUINE and OK
adam


----------



## marshmallow21

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I thinks its GENUINE and OK
> adam


Thank you Adam!


----------



## AirwolfT

Here is a used PAM00655 being offered at a fair discount due to lack of papers & tags (box and factory strap w/ buckle included). Seller states that they are original owner and FWIW they have a long history of perfect feedback selling Rolex/Patek/etc. I know there are good fake P4000s out there now so thought I would check with the experts here, are these photos enough to authenticate? Thanks again for your help!!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

AirwolfT said:


> Here is a used PAM00655 being offered at a fair discount due to lack of papers & tags (box and factory strap w/ buckle included). Seller states that they are original owner and FWIW they have a long history of perfect feedback selling Rolex/Patek/etc. I know there are good fake P4000s out there now so thought I would check with the experts here, are these photos enough to authenticate? Thanks again for your help!!
> 
> View attachment 13958669
> 
> View attachment 13958671
> 
> View attachment 13958673
> 
> View attachment 13958677
> 
> View attachment 13958679
> 
> View attachment 13958683
> 
> View attachment 13958685


GENUINE


----------



## AirwolfT

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> GENUINE


Great, I appreciate the fast response so that I can buy it with confidence.


----------



## vendt

Hi, need help to authenticate this Panerai op6630, please let me know your thoughts before take it in to the shop. Thank's in advance









Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

vendt said:


> Hi, need help to authenticate this Panerai op6630, please let me know your thoughts before take it in to the shop. Thank's in advance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Can not tell ANYTHING from those photos


----------



## vendt

I have these also if help or i can take more when home. Cheers









Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## m630

99.999999% fake


----------



## marshmallow21

Fake to me.

Compare a genuine 'I' series PAM back cover against your one and it seems your one is definitely fake.

Check forum : FS: Panerai Luminor Marina PAM104 PAM00104 44mm OP 6630 Brown Strap Men's Watch-$4500
Though I am not an expert, just my 2 cents.


----------



## vendt

Correct, just it checked 100% fake. Thank you for your time and help

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## Pugpilot

Hello, I am considering a Pam005 with no box/paperwork. I met the seller at a local watch shop where they opened the back. The store owner stated he had no doubt it was authentic. I noticed the swan neck screws to be off centered and the regulator screw? to be missing... Any help would be greatly appreciated and thank you in advance. I have more pictures if needed.


----------



## Pugpilot

Hello, I am considering a Pam005 with no box/paperwork. I met the seller at a local watch shop where they opened the back. The store owner stated he had no doubt it was authentic. I noticed the swan neck screws to be off centered and the regulator screw? to be missing... Any help would be greatly appreciated and thank you in advance. I have more pictures if needed.

View attachment 13996523
View attachment 13996531
View attachment 13996535
View attachment 13996539
View attachment 13996545


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

m630 said:


> 99.999999% fake


Care to explain why??


----------



## AlBundy

Swan neck is missing adjusment screw. Screws holding the swan neck are uneven.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Pugpilot said:


> Hello, I am considering a Pam005 with no box/paperwork. I met the seller at a local watch shop where they opened the back. The store owner stated he had no doubt it was authentic. I noticed the swan neck screws to be off centered and the regulator screw? to be missing... Any help would be greatly appreciated and thank you in advance. I have more pictures if needed.
> 
> View attachment 13996523
> View attachment 13996531
> View attachment 13996535
> View attachment 13996539
> View attachment 13996545


Yes This is surely FAKE


----------



## Pugpilot

Thank you, I appreciate it.


----------



## James Russle

I am considering a Pam219 with the box but no paperwork. Would appreciate your insights Adam. Thanks


----------



## AlBundy

Genuine


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

James Russle said:


> I am considering a Pam219 with the box but no paperwork. Would appreciate your insights Adam. Thanks
> View attachment 14001523
> 
> View attachment 14001529
> 
> View attachment 14001533
> View attachment 14001549
> View attachment 14001553


This is GENUINE
Adam


----------



## James Russle

Thank you sir, much appreciated!


----------



## DonQuixote

Here's an easy one I hope:


----------



## DonQuixote

Here's an easy one I hope:

View attachment 14004513

View attachment 14004515


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

DonQuixote said:


> Here's an easy one I hope:
> 
> View attachment 14004513
> 
> View attachment 14004515


All looks good to me.
GENUINE in my opinion.


----------



## DonQuixote

Much appreciated HOROLOGIST007!


----------



## boci202A

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> All looks good to me.
> GENUINE in my opinion.


+1 Gen movement for sure


----------



## stolemyheart

Pam112 (2007) - is this gen?



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

stolemyheart said:


> Pam112 (2007) - is this gen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Needs cleared balance wheel area photos, but from what I can make out looks OK.


----------



## James Russle

base logo 000, does the movement seem genuine to you Adam? Thanks in advance.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

James Russle said:


> base logo 000, does the movement seem genuine to you Adam? Thanks in advance.
> View attachment 14075231
> View attachment 14075233


Good news its using a correct ETA movement
What model is it - need to know to confirm, but does not look good???
Adam


----------



## James Russle

It is a pam base 000 logo 2013 produced watch


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

James Russle said:


> It is a pam base 000 logo 2013 produced watch
> View attachment 14075257


Then Its Fake in my opinion


----------



## lostinperiphery

Purchased second hand on eBay from a seemingly reputable dealer, but without box/papers etc. I've never really doubted its authenticity, then again, wouldn't really know what to look for!



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

lostinperiphery said:


> Purchased second hand on eBay from a seemingly reputable dealer, but without box/papers etc. I've never really doubted its authenticity, then again, wouldn't really know what to look for!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why you dont doubt it? But you ask here.
Makes no sense.
doubt or no doubt? That is your question
A


----------



## Stevencjain

Pam 026 K


----------



## Synequano

Personally I doubt the authenticity of the 26k

However I’d let the other experts chime in as well


----------



## Panerol Forte

PAM026 has OPII movement... that's not OPII


----------



## Stevencjain

It looks like there are two version of OPII. One that is decorated and one that is not. Just want to be sure before I tell the seller his watch is a fake. Are we certain it is not authentic?


----------



## Panerol Forte

Stevencjain said:


> It looks like there are two version of OPII. One that is decorated and one that is not. Just want to be sure before I tell the seller his watch is a fake. Are we certain it is not authentic?


I am sure. OPII doesn't have a swan neck, and the bridges are different!


----------



## Synequano

Just wondering,does the newer 26 also use the same highly decorated OP II as the early 26? As the other 6497 based watches in K year are already come with geneva stripes decoration 

As for the 26k earlier,we can consider that a closed case....


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Stevencjain said:


> Pam 026 K


This IS FAKE!


----------



## Stevencjain

Thanks Everyone! I alerted the seller and of course did not send payment for the watch. Glad I posted here and appreciate the help...


----------



## ImprezaMan

Hi guys, are you able to check if this 2014 Pam 112 legit? It comes with all paper and boxes but we all know everything can be created from anyone. many thanks


----------



## Panerol Forte

It seems legit to me, but wait for HOROLOGIST007 to confirm


----------



## AL9C1

I keep checking in on this thread. It's amazing how many fakes are out there. Can't trust nobody these days. Me and my Dievas are just dropping by to say hello. Keep up the good work. 









Bro 50,OoO


----------



## ImprezaMan

Panerol Forte said:


> It seems legit to me, but wait for HOROLOGIST007 to confirm


patiently waiting.


----------



## bigclive2011

PM him and he will have a look.


----------



## Panerol Forte

ImprezaMan said:


> patiently waiting.


For me, it is 100% gen. The swan neck is correct, and the micrometric screw is correct. Everything else is correct. But,I don't want to take the responsability of giving you a green light.


----------



## Panerol Forte

bigclive2011 said:


> PM him and he will have a look.


+1


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ImprezaMan said:


> Hi guys, are you able to check if this 2014 Pam 112 legit? It comes with all paper and boxes but we all know everything can be created from anyone. many thanks
> View attachment 14088823


Sorry, been travelling
This all looks good and genuine as far as movement is concerned.

You could also post photos of crown guard are
But its good
a


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ImprezaMan said:


> Hi guys, are you able to check if this 2014 Pam 112 legit? It comes with all paper and boxes but we all know everything can be created from anyone. many thanks
> View attachment 14088823


Sorry, been travelling
This all looks good and genuine as far as movement is concerned.

You could also post photos of crown guard are
But its good
a


----------



## ImprezaMan

Here are the not as hi Res image of the front and crown guard.


----------



## ImprezaMan

Here are the not as hi Res image of the front and crown guard.
View attachment 14097431

View attachment 14097437


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

ImprezaMan said:


> Here are the not as hi Res image of the front and crown guard.
> View attachment 14097431
> 
> View attachment 14097437


Confirmed good
A


----------



## sleepybubba

I won this one on ebay but as always have my doubts. Comments are greatly appreciated.


----------



## Panerol Forte

sleepybubba said:


> I won this one on ebay but as always have my doubts. Comments are greatly appreciated.


Movement pictures required...


----------



## shootermcgavin

this one is on it's way to me now.


----------



## Panerol Forte

shootermcgavin said:


> this one is on it's way to me now.
> View attachment 14129295
> 
> View attachment 14129297
> 
> View attachment 14129299
> 
> View attachment 14129301


I need a clearer image of the movement, this one is out of focus. And the balance wheel needs to be completely unmasked by the rotor. The same picture in higher resolution with the rotor slightly turned clockwise will be ok. There are fake 9010, so it'sw worth the effort to ask for a better picture.


----------



## shootermcgavin

Here are some pics. If this one is a fake I'll be pissed, but also impressed at the level of detail out into it...


----------



## lis_255

Shooter, there is a nice hi-res image of the real movement here on the official panerai site. While waiting and if you have some sort of magnifier try and see if you can spot any abnormalities/differences.


----------



## Panerol Forte

shootermcgavin said:


> Here are some pics. If this one is a fake I'll be pissed, but also impressed at the level of detail out into it...
> View attachment 14134609
> View attachment 14134613


*Disclaimer:* I am not an expert, I just have a good sense of observation. I try to help by spotting the fakes, but when I say that it seems OK, I do not authenticate, it just means that I don't see the obvious signs of fakery. You can never bee 100% sure based only on photos, and from the research that I did, there are more than 1 manufacturer for fake Panerai movements, and they are continuously improving their fakes.

Based on these pictures, the movement seems to be OK. If you decide to buy it, be sure of the return policy and have it checked as soon as you recieve it.

Edit: I just realized you already bought it. As I said, it looks genuine, but for your peace of mind, I suggest a small visit to an AD.


----------



## dimsy

Hi All,

Is this genuine PAM 671?


----------



## Panerol Forte

dimsy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Is this genuine PAM 671?


Are you serious? you want to authenticate a 25.000$+ watch on a forum? what if some expert told you that the movement is 100% authentic, are you going to buy it based on that authentication?


----------



## bigclive2011

The 9010 movement will adjust the hour hand independent of the minute hand, and the movement is the correct position in the case.

But as Panerol says if you have any doubts get it checked out professionally.


----------



## Panerol Forte

bigclive2011 said:


> The 9010 movement will adjust the hour hand independent of the minute hand, and the movement is the correct position in the case.
> 
> But as Panerol says if you have any doubts get it checked out professionally.


The thing with high price watches like the Bronzo is that it's not enough to check the authenticity of the movement. Let's imagine this scenario: some low life scammer would buy a high quality 671 with fake box and papers for 500$. He then buy the cheapest genuine Panerai equipped with a P9010 movement for around 4500$. He then removes the fake P9010 from the 671 and replaces it with the authentic P9010 from the genuine Panerai. He now have a fake Bronzo that can pass for a genuine with a potential profit of at least 20.000$, and can pass the scruteny of any expert that would only rely on the movement to authenticate. In such a case, only a watchmaker at a Panerai AD can tell that it's a fake if he examines carefuly the case and check the serial numbers of both the case and the movement for a match.


----------



## Synequano

I dunno if it’s still regarded as Vietnam special where they mix and make 2 watches from 1 real watch and 1 fake watch....I’ve seen 372 with real P3000 movt and SS caseback but with non SS case (rusts in some places and the watch felt lighter than the actual 372)


----------



## shootermcgavin

wow, reading some of these posts can really make one paranoid about buying from a non-AD source.


----------



## nicholasnick

dimsy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Is this genuine PAM 671?


Definitely heed the advice of Panerol. Frankly, whoever is selling you that watch should be aware of it's value and not mind meeting you at a Panerai Boutique or sending it is for appraisal/paperwork. That's always ALWAYS the safest bet.


----------



## Happy_Jake

shootermcgavin said:


> wow, reading some of these posts can really make one paranoid about buying from a non-AD source.


My thoughts exactly

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## NZ Pam

First post so I hope this works and the photo shows up. I am looking at buying this Pam 572. I have noticed the strap does not have contrasting stitching while virtually all photos of it I have seen has contrasting stitching. Is this just an option that Panerai have? I don't mind it and am 99% sure the watch is authentic as it is from a reputable dealer but.......?


----------



## NZ Pam

View attachment 14159361
View attachment 14159361


First post so I hope this works and the photo shows up. I am looking at buying this Pam 572. I have noticed the strap does not have contrasting stitching while virtually all photos of it I have seen has contrasting stitching. Is this just an option that Panerai have? I don't mind it and am 99% sure the watch is authentic as it is from a reputable dealer but.......?


----------



## NZ Pam

Whoops. Sorry for the double up. First post and learning.


----------



## Buckatron

Hi guys,

I'm thinking about buying this Pam 512 and I'm wondering if anybody can comment on its authenticity? Or anything else I should be concerned with?

I have no reason to believe that it's not genuine but I'm trying to cover all the bases as it's better to be safe than sorry ;-)

Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated


----------



## bigclive2011

Who are you buying it from and for how much?

Does it have all the boxes and papers that show matching numbers?

Good seller at appropriate price with all the above is probably good.

Any of the above missing then get it checked out by an AD.


----------



## Buckatron

Thanks!

Yes, the seller checks out with references and it comes with everything-box and papers. The AD is useless and not worth it from what I have heard. 

It’s just that you can’t be too careful especially when it’s a Panerai and a deal that is not local. I know some of you guys can see small details that expose a replica. Just want to cover all my bases ;-)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Panerol Forte

Buckatron said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm thinking about buying this Pam 512 and I'm wondering if anybody can comment on its authenticity? Or anything else I should be concerned with?
> 
> I have no reason to believe that it's not genuine but I'm trying to cover all the bases as it's better to be safe than sorry ;-)
> 
> Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated


The movement P.999/1 is genuine by comparison with all the fakes images I was able to find (beside easy to spot differences, the fakes have an upside down movement).

*Disclaimer:* I am not an expert, I just have a good sense of observation. I try to help by spotting the fakes, but when I say that it seems OK, I do not authenticate, it just means that I don't see the obvious signs of fakery. You can never bee 100% sure based only on photos, and from the research that I did, there are more than 1 manufacturer for fake Panerai movements, and they are continuously improving their fakes.


----------



## Buckatron

Thank you 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Panerol Forte

Buckatron said:


> Thank you
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Even though it seems genuine, you have to do your due diligence before buying, especialy if you are buying over the internet. Be sure that you can have your money back if the watch is not 100% as described or you find any flaw. Also, check the seller's reputation.


----------



## Happy_Jake

shootermcgavin said:


> wow, reading some of these posts can really make one paranoid about buying from a non-AD source.


Exactly what i am thinkinh

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## sleepybubba

sleepybubba said:


> I won this one on ebay but as always have my doubts. Comments are greatly appreciated.


Hi, adding the movement pictures. Does it look real? The papers do match the L-serial and the card is included.









Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## sleepybubba

Hi guys,
Does this 000 look genuine? I got this off ebay and all numbers match between the card and barcodes, but just want to make sure.


----------



## sleepybubba

Hi, can someone plz look at the post above and comment if this looks genuine? I may lose an opportunity to return it if it's not.


----------



## AlBundy

sleepybubba said:


> Hi, can someone plz look at the post above and comment if this looks genuine? I may lose an opportunity to return it if it's not.


Looks genuine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

sleepybubba said:


> Hi, can someone plz look at the post above and comment if this looks genuine? I may lose an opportunity to return it if it's not.


Mmm
I have some concern that it does NOT have the "Swan Neck Regulator" on the movement!
The only movements I found of that model without it were FAKE sites!

Adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

AlBundy said:


> Looks genuine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Really?
Does Panerai not fit the Swan Neck Regulator on the 6497 UNITAS movement on that model??


----------



## sleepybubba

I am far from being a Panerai expert, and do appreciate a lot the advice I am getting here. However according to this article the true 000 does not come with swan neck. Also this Paneristi forum post  alludes to the fact that 000 and 005 do not come with Swan neck. So now I am completely confused 


HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Mmm
> I have some concern that it does NOT have the "Swan Neck Regulator" on the movement!
> The only movements I found of that model without it were FAKE sites!
> 
> Adam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

sleepybubba said:


> I am far from being a Panerai expert, and do appreciate a lot the advice I am getting here. However according to this article the true 000 does not come with swan neck. Also this Paneristi forum post  alludes to the fact that 000 and 005 do not come with Swan neck. So now I am completely confused


Thats fine.
It just needed confirmed that Panerai did NOT attach a Swan Neck Regulator on that model.

So its all good
A


----------



## Panerol Forte

sleepybubba said:


> I am far from being a Panerai expert, and do appreciate a lot the advice I am getting here. However according to this article the true 000 does not come with swan neck. Also this Paneristi forum post  alludes to the fact that 000 and 005 do not come with Swan neck. So now I am completely confused


You are absolutely right, PAM000 is equipped with OPI, and it doesn't have a swan neck, so does OPII, and OPXXIX, the unfinished movement of the infamous Brooklyn Bridge PAM318. The problem with those movements, it is very hard to tell if they are genuine because those are basic ETA 6497-1, and it is extremely easy to fake them, and very hard to tell the difference. In fact, the frauders buy good quality fake PAMs and replace the movement with a gen ETA 6497-1 as they are very cheap, around 120 Euros, and easy to alter cosmetically to pass for a OP movement. Only way to know for sure is to have it checked at an AD. My advice to you is to let go this watch, it's VERY risky.

PS: To the Panerai experts out there, there is a HUGE amount of PAMs equipped with ETA 6497 without a swan neck:

OPI: 12 PAM references
OPII: 66 PAM references
OPXXIX: 1 PAM reference


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Panerol Forte said:


> You are absolutely right, PAM000 is equipped with OPI, and it doesn't have a swan neck, so does OPII, and OPXXIX, the unfinished movement of the infamous Brooklyn Bridge PAM318. The problem with those movements, it is very hard to tell if they are genuine because those are basic ETA 6497-1, and it is extremely easy to fake them, and very hard to tell the difference. In fact, the frauders buy good quality fake PAMs and replace the movement with a gen ETA 6497-1 as they are very cheap, around 120 Euros, and easy to alter cosmetically to pass for a OP movement. Only way to know for sure is to have it checked at an AD. My advice to you is to let go this watch, it's VERY risky.
> 
> PS: To the Panerai experts out there, there is a HUGE amount of PAMs equipped with ETA 6497 without a swan neck:
> 
> OPI: 12 PAM references
> OPII: 66 PAM references
> OPXXIX: 1 PAM reference


Good info
For certain this IS a UNITAS 6497 movement and not a SEAGUL clone.
Based on the movement engraving, case and dial, I would be 99.9% sure this watch is genuine.

There is absolutely none of the red flags.

Regards


----------



## Panerol Forte

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Thats fine.
> It just needed confirmed that Panerai did NOT attach a Swan Neck Regulator on that model.
> 
> So its all good
> A


Based on what is it good?

Not enough!


----------



## Panerol Forte

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Good info
> For certain this IS a UNITAS 6497 movement and not a SEAGUL clone.
> Based on the movement engraving, case and dial, I would be 99.9% sure this watch is genuine.
> 
> There is absolutely none of the red flags.
> 
> Regards


Read my post again.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Panerol Forte said:


> Based on what is it good?


The complete watch, dial, case and movement all looke genuine.
I was just concerned if that model did come without swan neck - now that it does - I am sure watch is genuine
A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Panerol Forte said:


> Read my post again.


I did.
I say watch is genuine!
OP can decide based on your input or mine.
Its fine to me


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Panerol Forte said:


> Read my post again.


I did.
I say watch is genuine!
OP can decide based on your input or mine.
Its fine to me


----------



## Synequano

The matching numbers and the overall finish of the movement might be the good news

I rarely read stuff on fake Panerai but in most cases,the finishing on the bridge of the 6497 is different on original vs fake,I won’t go into details though...


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Synequano said:


> The matching numbers and the overall finish of the movement might be the good news
> 
> I rarely read stuff on fake Panerai but in most cases,the finishing on the bridge of the 6497 is different on original vs fake,I won't go into details though...


Pretty sure this watch is genuine. I would buy it based on what is seen.
A


----------



## sleepybubba

Panerol Forte said:


> Read my post again.


I already bought this watch on May 03, 2019. I suppose I am still within 30 days ebay coverage. But... is there any additional way to verify the authenticity. For example, signed and printed cards and barcode sheets?
This watch came with full set of documentation. There is a warranty certificate card with the number that match OP6728 case and PB # on the back. Also the Barcode sheet that was stuck onto the registration card gas the same OP6728PM### number that match both the warranty certificate and the case back. Does this count for anything?


----------



## Synequano

What about the movt number to the COSC certificate? Do they match

If all the numbers match (geez,that made me sound like an accountant) there’s a good chance that it’s real


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

sleepybubba said:


> I already bought this watch on May 03, 2019. I suppose I am still within 30 days ebay coverage. But... is there any additional way to verify the authenticity. For example, signed and printed cards and barcode sheets?
> This watch came with full set of documentation. There is a warranty certificate card with the number that match OP6728 case and PB # on the back. Also the Barcode sheet that was stuck onto the registration card gas the same OP6728PM### number that match both the warranty certificate and the case back. Does this count for anything?


In my opinion your watch is 100% genuine.
I would buy it.
Your photos are very good and based on those, your watch is GENUINE.

Thats my opinion
ENJOY
a


----------



## Wlover

Synequano said:


> What about the movt number to the COSC certificate? Do they match
> 
> If all the numbers match (geez,that made me sound like an accountant) there's a good chance that it's real


ZERO no COSC boss...

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Synequano

I just knew that zero has no COSC,I only have one base with ETA (219) and it has COSC...hopefully the dealer didn’t give me someone else’s COSC paper....


----------



## Wlover

Synequano said:


> I just knew that zero has no COSC,I only have one base with ETA (219) and it has COSC...hopefully the dealer didn't give me someone else's COSC paper....


Pretty sure is someone else's. 219, 000, 112 can't have COSC as no sec hands to measure the +-

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk


----------



## RobFrost

Came across this pretty obvious fake PAM106 on ebay last night. From my understanding, the 2004 Laureus Awards watch was a PAM199 Regatta. So many things wrong with this one...looks like the cyclops on the "crystal" doesn't even work! Cheap HK copy anyone? :barf:

_Edit: looks like the auction post has been taken down._


----------



## ruismesquita

It looks legit


----------



## Edgenumber

-


----------



## Edgenumber

Can anyone help me indentify this one?

Bought trough a reputable Rolex seller, so not a Panerai specialist.
But stil a guy that sell his watches trough reputation and can't use being accused of selling a fake.
So not that I don't trust this guy. But I don't trust the owner before him. And God only knows how many ownes this watch has had before.

All box and papers are present, and all numbers match up.

Now I can't post links or images yet it seems. So all I can provide right now are the plain text links to the external image server I use.
I know it's inconvenient for you, but can you still please help me?

tweakers.net/ext/f/5AQStToCGNRD10rmGz1OLn4M/full.jpg?nohitcount=1
tweakers.net/ext/f/skYiPdmOkUubq0izECTd1kqm/full.jpg?nohitcount=1
tweakers.net/ext/f/nkB3Vltstx1OCE1kJNvFlgpR/full.jpg?nohitcount=1
tweakers.net/ext/f/IlZWH2eOtG5KGfcMRwjkkTd9/full.jpg?nohitcount=1
tweakers.net/ext/f/z4NXTrf4R8x2bO24YEjHU0iF/full.jpg?nohitcount=1

With kind regards,

Edgenumber


----------



## Edgenumber

Than I have to provide the right links of course

tweakers.net/ext/f/6PYxvgpdlCPIHog1ust1MXVD/full.jpg?nohitcount=1
tweakers.net/ext/f/RuoYRZVweITQE0fZeyZu4qIy/full.jpg?nohitcount=1
tweakers.net/ext/f/8TulU7gcUqKDOww433Zmg2tc/full.jpg?nohitcount=1
tweakers.net/ext/f/lRBE8xDrg9B4v9KY1H7ntZWZ/full.jpg?nohitcount=1
tweakers.net/ext/f/vg5Fmz2nhehY4EQ5TBALygVo/full.jpg?nohitcount=1
tweakers.net/ext/f/6PYxvgpdlCPIHog1ust1MXVD/full.jpg?nohitcount=1


----------



## Edgenumber




----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Edgenumber said:


> View attachment 14243869
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243871
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243873
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243875
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243877
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243879


GENUINE
A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Edgenumber said:


> View attachment 14243869
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243871
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243873
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243875
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243877
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243879


GENUINE
A


----------



## Edgenumber

Thank you!


----------



## xibonda

Hello
What do you think, is it fake or not?
I think the watch was bought 10 years ago, more or less.
Thanks


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

xibonda said:


> View attachment 14258579
> 
> View attachment 14258581
> 
> 
> Hello
> What do you think, is it fake or not?
> I think the watch was bought 10 years ago, more or less.
> Thanks


FAKE - JUNK


----------



## xibonda

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> FAKE - JUNK


really? :-(


----------



## AlBundy

It’s so fake that they didn’t even bother to put a serial number on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## xibonda

thank you both


----------



## dredzz

100% fake


----------



## murokello

xibonda said:


> really? :-(


 Vomit inducing. One of the worst fakes in this thread.


----------



## cdennyp3123

Does this movement look real or fake? Supposed to be PAM 112 manual wind.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

cdennyp3123 said:


> Does this movement look real or fake? Supposed to be PAM 112 manual wind.
> View attachment 14276229


From what I can see - REAL


----------



## Squirrell

Hey everyone. Bought this one a few years ago from a reputable seller here in Australia. Not long after buying this Panerai, (PAM 005, "Logo" with the OPII Movement?) the seller informed his customers that he was no longer selling Panerai Watches as he could no longer tell the real ones from the fakes! Not the greatet confidence builder! Admittedly I already thought I had paid too much for this watch, but alas, what could I do, but grin and bear it. So here goes.. What do you think?

I am not a fan of taking case backs off, but have gained in competence and experience over the last coule of years so took this one off tonight with my handy "yellow ball." Had my Pam had the usual slotted case back, I doubt I would have attempted to remove it in case I slipped and scratched, but you would be amazed at what these "Balls" can remove. An essental part of watch kit in my mind.

Watch came with the whole set, inner and outer boxes, 2 straps, etc..


----------



## panfan12312

Hey everyone - looking for some guidance to ensure this PAM722 is legit. Thanks!


----------



## panfan12312

Hey everyone - looking for some guidance to ensure this PAM722 is legit. Thanks!

View attachment 14294409

View attachment 14294411

View attachment 14294413

View attachment 14294415

View attachment 14294417


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

panfan12312 said:


> Hey everyone - looking for some guidance to ensure this PAM722 is legit. Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 14294409
> 
> View attachment 14294411
> 
> View attachment 14294413
> 
> View attachment 14294415
> 
> View attachment 14294417


Could be.
No decent Movement Photos
Impossible to tell


----------



## Freikorptrasher

I really can't see this thread on my mobile.

Does this look legit?

PAM 183


----------



## sleepybubba

Hi all, once got the Panerai bug, it is uncurable  Does this look legit at all? TIA


----------



## ruismesquita

Very nice pam


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

sleepybubba said:


> Hi all, once got the Panerai bug, it is uncurable  Does this look legit at all? TIA
> View attachment 14298399


This is genuine?????
Pretty sure its fake!


----------



## fpm.tang

Hey Guys,

Want to see if this watch is legit at all...


----------



## Speedy B

Is there a way to look up a Pan serial number to see if it's duplicated or not?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Speedy B said:


> Is there a way to look up a Pan serial number to see if it's duplicated or not?


google?


----------



## sleepybubba

Hi, does this look and feel like the real 510?


----------



## Synequano

The box on that “510” looks off...


----------



## dredzz

Synequano said:


> The box on that "510" looks off...


+1, it's written "Laboratorid" instead of "Laboratorio"... Pretty weird and suspicious. Plus it seems there's a whitespace between "Laboratorid" and "di idee"


----------



## sleepybubba

Hmmm, I thought the watch looked kind of legit. Glad I sent the picture of the box. The seller says it was purchased from Torneau and still has 1 year warranty from them. I will ask for the reverse picture of warranty card and the watch next to each other.


----------



## sleepybubba

Does this 000 looks real?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

sleepybubba said:


> Hi, does this look and feel like the real 510?
> 
> View attachment 14391267
> 
> View attachment 14391269
> 
> View attachment 14391271
> 
> View attachment 14391273


Agree on box
BUT that movement looks genuine to me
A


----------



## theothegrey

Is this PAM329 Real?

Bought from an AD (Watchbox) box and papers. Papers match watch serial number. So little information on the 329. Please help. They offered to take it back in exchange for a 587 (1k more) if I'm worried.








b

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

theothegrey said:


> Is this PAM329 Real?
> 
> Bought from an AD (Watchbox) box and papers. Papers match watch serial number. So little information on the 329. Please help. They offered to take it back in exchange for a 587 (1k more) if I'm worried.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


NOPE - Poor Fake


----------



## nobbylon

Guys, please take a look at this and give me your thoughts. Did they issue written cards as I thought they were stamped into the plastic.


----------



## nobbylon

Edgenumber said:


> View attachment 14243869
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243871
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243873
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243875
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243877
> 
> 
> View attachment 14243879


If this is an R dated watch 2015 should it not have a PB number? i say fake.


----------



## aikpwns

Hi there, I am actually purchasing from someone a PAM00390
I would like to check with you guys on the authenticity and some opinions before I make the purchase from pictures he sent me.

I've blocked out the number on the case back / certificate but the numbers do tally.
Do let me know if it's a rep or a gen.

Thank you.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

nobbylon said:


> Guys, please take a look at this and give me your thoughts. Did they issue written cards as I thought they were stamped into the plastic.
> 
> View attachment 14458117
> 
> View attachment 14458119
> 
> View attachment 14458121
> 
> View attachment 14458125
> 
> View attachment 14458127
> 
> View attachment 14458133


This GENUINE in my opinion
A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

aikpwns said:


> Hi there, I am actually purchasing from someone a PAM00390
> I would like to check with you guys on the authenticity and some opinions before I make the purchase from pictures he sent me.
> 
> I've blocked out the number on the case back / certificate but the numbers do tally.
> Do let me know if it's a rep or a gen.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> View attachment 14458221
> 
> View attachment 14458223
> 
> View attachment 14458225
> 
> View attachment 14458227
> 
> View attachment 14458229


Tough without movement photo.
1 am 50/50

I personally would not risk it.
a


----------



## theothegrey

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> theothegrey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this PAM329 Real?
> 
> Bought from an AD (Watchbox) box and papers. Papers match watch serial number. So little information on the 329. Please help. They offered to take it back in exchange for a 587 (1k more) if I'm worried.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> NOPE - Poor Fake
Click to expand...

Is it possible to get any additional al detail on your reply that this is a fake? All of the documentation matches. I need information to go back to them for a refund. I had a local AD look at and change the links on the bracelet, they said it was real but not sure how detailed their assessment was at the time.

Please advise.

Is it possible to get any additional al detail on your reply that this is a fake? All of the documentation matches. I need information to go back to them for a refund. I had a local AD look at and change the links on the bracelet, they said it was real but not sure how detailed their assessment was at the time.

Please advise.


----------



## vjaswal

I have a question regarding the P9010 movement. I am about to pull the trigger on a PAM682 which has this 9010 movement. Source seems to be trusted (A jewelers store), all boxes & papers seem to be in order. 

My question is, do forged watches that contain the 9010 movement in general have the 'hour hand adjustment without the minute hand moving' mechanism? Is this is a way to distinguish a fake?


----------



## AlBundy

vjaswal said:


> My question is, do forged watches that contain the 9010 movement in general have the 'hour hand adjustment without the minute hand moving' mechanism? Is this is a way to distinguish a fake?


I can confirm that there are fake 9010-movements available with individual hours hand adjustment.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brybajlak

Hi all,

Considering my first PAM and found a good 112 that I'm interested in. I think it's okay but could one of you experts take a look and put my mind at ease.

It's a K Serial bought in 2008 with full box and papers.

Thanks!



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cb1111

Need far better movement pictures


----------



## nobbylon

From the research I did before buying mine it looks good. A better movement pic to confirm. Check the movt’ number against the cosc cert’. Number can just be seen if looking sideways through the case back. Pretty sure a K serial should have a fat crown and non roller lever which this appears to have. Smaller winding wheel also looks good for gen’ movt’


----------



## waikeekee

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*



brybajlak said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Considering my first PAM and found a good 112 that I'm interested in. I think it's okay but could one of you experts take a look and put my mind at ease.
> 
> It's a K Serial bought in 2008 with full box and papers.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I could be wrong but the shop selling this K112 looks like Goldman Luxury in Far East Plaza Singapore.

If I am correct, you can be assured and sleep easy. Friends and I have dealt with them countless times and they sell or trade only genuine items.

WKK


----------



## brybajlak

Hey team,

Sorry for the average movement picture, WKK is right, it was Goldman and I made the purchase. 

All boxes, papers etc. matched plus they even had stickers and hang tags correctly numbered. 

Very happy with the purchase and my first PAM! It hasn’t been off the wrist since!

Cheers, 

Beau


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jjluca26

Pam 111 check

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

jjluca26 said:


> Pam 111 check
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOOKS OK
Need better photo of balance area to be 100% sure
NO red flags


----------



## jjluca26

Better photos

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

jjluca26 said:


> Better photos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Genuine in my opinion
A


----------



## jjluca26

Govberg confirmed the sale of this watch so should be good. Was a little scared cuz no papers but all seems well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AlBundy

It’s not a replica, it’s fake watch. Wonder why it has a swannneck when clearly it is non-functional


----------



## nobbylon

thx for removing the faker.


----------



## madeyouluk

sorry duplicate.


----------



## madeyouluk

What about this guys?









Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## madeyouluk

Movement









Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## GoGators7

Something doesn't look right with the blue seconds sweep. It's too wide. Should be thinner. Also the dark grey "triangle" inside the "4" on the date looks slightly off center.


----------



## AlBundy

Looks real to me...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nobbylon

fake


----------



## madeyouluk

nobbylon said:


> fake


Based on what qualities?

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## nobbylon

Post more in focus pictures and i’ll tell you!


----------



## jjluca26

Pam 233 check


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nobbylon

where’s the gmt hand?


----------



## AlBundy

nobbylon said:


> where's the gmt hand?


It can be hidden behind the hours hand

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## madeyouluk

Nobbylon are these additional pics better for you to judge?









Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## nobbylon

From those I still say fake and would want it verified by Panerai.


----------



## madeyouluk

OK thanks. I stumbled on this post and couldn't believe how many fake Panerai there were out there. I only own one Panerai and it is the one in the picture, purchased from an AD. I just wanted to see the experience of those in the thread on determining the authenticity. 

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## madeyouluk

Which then makes me feel, with everyone's experience we still can't be sure if it is real or not... So it is best we all buy a Panerai from an AD only. 

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## nobbylon

The reason I said take yours to an AD is because the details in your photos are not good enough to determine real or not. You say you bought from an AD so there’s no need to even ask here and your wanting to gauge experience in authenticating doesn’t sit right with me. Show me a macro pic of that crown guard and your warranty card with matching numbers and i’ll change my mind!


----------



## nobbylon

And.......still waiting


----------



## alphasync2001

Can I please get your opinion on this Panerai? It seems like complete with the brown box, stickers, and a cut from the hang tag... quite keen to purchase it... but can't tell if its real as i think PAM390 has been duped a lot...


----------



## Navman007

wrong post


----------



## Navman007

Sorry! Posted twice.


----------



## madeyouluk

nobbylon said:


> And.......still waiting


Sorry nobbylon, not avoiding your request, just a busy week at the office. Here are some pics you asked for that should help prove authenticity (and my point). Sorry not sure what part of the crown guard you're interested in so took a few.









Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


----------



## acoats

Looking to possibly buy this watch this week off Craigslist. Can anyone confirm if it’s real?


----------



## nobbylon

madeyouluk said:


> Sorry nobbylon, not avoiding your request, just a busy week at the office. Here are some pics you asked for that should help prove authenticity (and my point). Sorry not sure what part of the crown guard you're interested in so took a few.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


Still don't get why you would ask if you know it's real. You were given the best advice based on the pictures you provided. Grainy, out of focus and lacking detail always means take it to a dealer. The last set you provide should have been the first set. All in all a total waste of everyone's time including your own. PS I still don't like that date window and would want it verified anyway.


----------



## CaptTed

The sheer volume of posts in this thread suggests to me it is best with Panerai to purchase through an AD. It was the route I went, and worth the piece of mind.


----------



## BigEd

There is a PAM 312 on Chrono 24 located in Singapore. 
1...How safe is Chrono 24 in ensuring that all its listings are genuine.
2...Is this example genuine? https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/31...-mint-with-leather-and-rubber--id12532761.htm

Appreciate any comments / suggestions from the experts.


----------



## newyorktimes88

Great thread. About to buy one on Craigslist, so very helpful.


----------



## alekyakoi

Hi everyone,
What do you think of this one:






















Price really attractive, no documents...The person has the lever but removed it because it was to bulky?!?

Thank you


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

alekyakoi said:


> Hi everyone,
> What do you think of this one:
> View attachment 14671063
> 
> View attachment 14671065
> 
> View attachment 14671067
> 
> 
> Price really attractive, no documents...The person has the lever but removed it because it was to bulky?!?
> 
> Thank you


IMPOSSIBLE to tell those photos, BUT I think its fake.


----------



## BigEd

BigEd said:


> There is a PAM 312 on Chrono 24 located in Singapore.
> 1...How safe is Chrono 24 in ensuring that all its listings are genuine.
> 2...Is this example genuine? https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/31...-mint-with-leather-and-rubber--id12532761.htm
> 
> Appreciate any comments / suggestions from the experts.


Hi All, any comments on this sale item?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

BigEd said:


> Hi All, any comments on this sale item?


Not the best of photos but watch looksOK
Chrono I never use
A


----------



## dandigangi

Looks good from what I see for future thread readers.


----------



## murokello

alekyakoi said:


> Hi everyone, What do you think of this one:
> View attachment 14671063
> View attachment 14671065
> View attachment 14671067
> Price really attractive, no documents...The person has the lever but removed it because it was to bulky?!? Thank you


 Fake.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

murokello said:


> It is a nasty fake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ps. Adam put your goggles on


porque?


----------



## dtdomination

*PAM 111 Gift*

Hi everyone, I've been a lurker for a few months here as my watch hobby really kicked off in February. I was recently gifted a PAM 111 by a friend after expressing interest in buying one. He said he never wears it and it'd be better off with me. This isn't unusual for us as we have been long time friends and exchange high end gifts. I am hesitant however, since the crystal reflects a lot, almost like a mirror. Is this a fake or a real PAM? If it's a fake, I'll just bin it and grab a real one. Thank you for your help!

Disclaimer: I am not doing research for a fake watch company. I know this is an issue with some people who ask these questions without a lot of posts. I just don't have much to contribute to the forum and prefer to use it like a database. I have exchanged many pm's to buy watches in the sales section.


----------



## handwound

*Re: PAM 111 Gift*

There is a "fake or not" sticky thread, BTW. ;-)

Photos are not the greatest, but I say fake. Unless your friend seems the type to hand over about $4K USD to you for no real reason. "I don't wear it." is a pretty flimsy reason unless he/she is _extremely_ well off, they could easily sell a legit PAM111 for thousands of dollars.

I have some friends that I care deeply about, and I make a pretty decent living - I wouldn't gift a watch that pricey to any of them.


----------



## dtdomination

*Re: PAM 111 Gift*

My apologies! I'm not very involved with forums and can get pretty confused lol. I will try to move it or delete it and repost. I would say he is extremely well off. $4k is a drop in the bucket for him, and it isn't the first gift of that value we've exchanged. I'll take some better photos, but is there anything specific you see that says fake? I plan on taking it to an AD when I'm near one but don't want to waste time if there's something obviously fake about it. Thanks again, I appreciate the help. Hopefully I'll be a bit more active on the forum.


----------



## dtdomination

Real or fake? Has a box with it


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

dtdomination said:


> View attachment 14696669
> View attachment 14696671
> 
> 
> Real or fake? Has a box with it


FAKE


----------



## dtdomination

Here's a close up


----------



## dtdomination

Thanks!


----------



## dtdomination

What are the giveaways? Just so I can educate myself when buying used


----------



## murokello

dtdomination said:


> What are the giveaways? Just so I can educate myself when buying used


 Compare the movement to a real one.


----------



## handwound

*Re: PAM 111 Gift*



dtdomination said:


> My apologies! I'm not very involved with forums and can get pretty confused lol. I will try to move it or delete it and repost. I would say he is extremely well off. $4k is a drop in the bucket for him, and it isn't the first gift of that value we've exchanged. I'll take some better photos, but is there anything specific you see that says fake? I plan on taking it to an AD when I'm near one but don't want to waste time if there's something obviously fake about it. Thanks again, I appreciate the help. Hopefully I'll be a bit more active on the forum.


I merged it with the "real or not" thread for you.


----------



## handwound

dtdomination said:


> Here's a close up


Definitely a fake.

The set screw on the swan neck is screwed all the way down and STILL isn't even _touching_ the regulator needle.


----------



## dtdomination

I'll be damned, thank you! On the plus side, having this PAM has shown me how fun they are and really sealed the deal for me. Off to the AD!


----------



## GregBe

Hey guys,

Thoughts on this PAM 351. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Greg


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

GregBe said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Thoughts on this PAM 351. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Greg
> View attachment 14711987
> View attachment 14711989
> View attachment 14711991
> View attachment 14711993
> View attachment 14711997


Impossible to tell on these photos.
Need clear photos and video of balance wheel area
A


----------



## fishdevil

Can someone tell if this is legit or not? I took this watch in a trade, and when I brought it to the local watchmaker they said it looked good but they couldn't find an ETA stamp on the movement. From researching in this thread, however, it seems like the incabloc is not correct. Any help would be appreciated. (Sorry for the movement pic - the watchmaker took it for me).


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

fishdevil said:


> Can someone tell if this is legit or not? I took this watch in a trade, and when I brought it to the local watchmaker they said it looked good but they couldn't find an ETA stamp on the movement. From researching in this thread, however, it seems like the incabloc is not correct. Any help would be appreciated. (Sorry for the movement pic - the watchmaker took it for me).
> View attachment 14763803
> View attachment 14763805
> View attachment 14763807


They will NOT find an ETA Marque Depose, as this is the UNITAS 6497 movement
This watch is FAKE
No doubt
A


----------



## fishdevil

Thank you for the information.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

fishdevil said:


> Thank you for the information.


Pleasure - get your "trade" back - its FAKE


----------



## AL9C1

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Pleasure - get your "trade" back - its FAKE


Man it's so disheartening how many nicely done fakes there are out there. I'll be in the market for a radiomir 1940's model eventually. Are these counterfeited just as much as other models? Preferably a 514 or 572. Just wondering how cautious I need to be.

Dirty South OoO Bro


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

AL9C1 said:


> Man it's so disheartening how many nicely done fakes there are out there. I'll be in the market for a radiomir 1940's model eventually. Are these counterfeited just as much as other models? Preferably a 514 or 572. *Just wondering how cautious I need to be.*
> 
> Dirty South OoO Bro


EXTREMELY!
Post here first or PM me
Adam


----------



## AL9C1

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> EXTREMELY!
> Post here first or PM me
> Adam


Absolutely man. Y'all keep up the good work.

Dirty South OoO Bro


----------



## imperial2687

Hi everyone, I didn't realise this thread existed but I posted a few photos of an OP6746 as a separate thread (please see link). If anyone can help then that would be most appreciated!
Cheers!

https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/pam-op6746-5103981.html


----------



## imperial2687

Hi everyone, I didn't realise this thread existed but I posted a few photos of an OP6746 as a separate thread (please see link). If anyone can help then that would be most appreciated!
Cheers!

https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/pam-op6746-5103981.html


----------



## tonch504

How does this one look to you guys? I can't see a piece number (eg number 1000 of 2000) and I'm wondering if they all have these numbers.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/254477140189


----------



## Sergei T.

tonch504 said:


> How does this one look to you guys? I can't see a piece number (eg number 1000 of 2000) and I'm wondering if they all have these numbers.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/254477140189


Not an expert but something is not looking right to me in #6, too bold IMO...


----------



## PAMily Man

Hello guys 
Long time since my last visit
This time I really need a little help.
I am meeting the seller on Thursday and I am really afraid of buying a fake....so in love with this model
The seller said that that is a complete package except papers.
So box and so on but no papers....???
Please help 
The advert : https://m.olx.ro/oferta/panerai-radiomir-1940-3-days-IDcOfQY.html
Warm regards and thank you in advance


----------



## vicbastige

New to the PAM scene so I could use all the help I can get given the current quality of counterfeit pieces. I'm looking at this 177 and everything looks good. Seller has had good communication to. All boxes/papers/cards. Anything look off?


----------



## nobbylon 2

177, looks good. Movement genuine.


----------



## WWWW

theothegrey said:


> Is this PAM329 Real?
> 
> Bought from an AD (Watchbox) box and papers. Papers match watch serial number. So little information on the 329. Please help. They offered to take it back in exchange for a 587 (1k more) if I'm worried.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> b
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Would love to hear why this is fake.. looks pretty bang on compared to my p9000


----------



## WWWW

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> This is genuine?????
> Pretty sure its fake!





sleepybubba said:


> Hi all, once got the Panerai bug, it is uncurable  Does this look legit at all? TIA
> View attachment 14298399


Again this looks identical to my p9000!


----------



## murokello

WWWW said:


> Would love to hear why this is fake.. looks pretty bang on compared to my p9000


 Sometimes he is correct and sometimes he is not.


----------



## zelios

Recently, I was at a preowned shop browsing for a 111 or 005. They had a 111 in the store and I managed to snap a couple of photos. It's my first shopping for a Pam and not sure what to look for. I don't need details just opinions if it could be genuine? I was told the strap is an aftermarket. Thank you.


----------



## murokello

zelios said:


> Recently, I was at a preowned shop browsing for a 111 or 005. They had a 111 in the store and I managed to snap a couple of photos. It's my first shopping for a Pam and not sure what to look for. I don't need details just opinions if it could be genuine? I was told the strap is an aftermarket. Thank you.
> View attachment 14909351
> View attachment 14909353


 Comparing to this one (https://www.righttime.com/rt/pre-owned/op_6727.htm) it looks to ba a fake.


----------



## zelios

Hi, thanks for the reply. Did you mean the movement? Or the face, to my my untrained eyes they look scary similar! &#55357;&#56883;


----------



## murokello

zelios said:


> Hi, thanks for the reply. Did you mean the movement? Or the face, to my my untrained eyes they look scary similar! ��


 I'm not a Panerai expert but those swan neck adjustment screws and their position look really bad and similar as they look with many fake movements. Hopefully someone else can give their opinions also.


----------



## Jpstepancic

*The "Is this Panerai real?" thread*

Edit: I think I'm going to pass on the 111 I originally posted.

Instead I've got my eye on a 005 that's currently on eBay.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/372965691757

Without seeing the movement inside is there anything that would be a red flag?


----------



## nobbylon 2

zelios said:


> Recently, I was at a preowned shop browsing for a 111 or 005. They had a 111 in the store and I managed to snap a couple of photos. It's my first shopping for a Pam and not sure what to look for. I don't need details just opinions if it could be genuine? I was told the strap is an aftermarket. Thank you.
> View attachment 14909351
> View attachment 14909353


Totally FAKE


----------



## nobbylon 2

murokello said:


> I'm not a Panerai expert but those swan neck adjustment screws and their position look really bad and similar as they look with many fake movements. Hopefully someone else can give their opinions also.


Dial printing, swan neck screws and incabloc all wrong, FAKE.


----------



## Jpstepancic

Looking at a 112 and I got sent a couple of extra pics of the movement. Do these look legit?

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nobbylon 2

looks OK but before buying I’d like to see an in focus pic!


----------



## granzzow

Hi Guys, I have recently bought a used PAM000. Can any of you confirm the authenticity of this watch?


----------



## murokello

granzzow said:


> Hi Guys, I have recently bought a used PAM000. Can any of you confirm the authenticity of this watch?
> View attachment 14939841
> View attachment 14939843


 Take movement pics.


----------



## MrKane213

Thanks for your help with this PAM00111 - bought from reputable jeweler/reseller (at a normal price, definitely not too good to be true), seems very high quality and legit to me, handles like a genuine, excellent finishing up close; what‘s worrisome is no B/P and I‘ve read N Series 111 are some of the most abundant replicas (after buying it of course, my own mistake). Serial number matches case according to Panerai (telephone and PAM-guard registration - but latter without warranty card upload since it didn’t come with the watch) and I will send it to service there in a few months latest I guess (whenever ADs can be visitted again; we will then know for sure and I‘ll be happy to keep you posted if that were of interest, please let me know, as I am honestly not sure about forum etiquette, etc.). Dealer made me believe he stands behind his product, gave a receipt and guaranteed authenticity in an email but I am still worried and unhappy about my decision to go preowned (cost of service about 500, straps & original buckle about 500 and „cost“ of worrying really outweigh the couple of grande I saved compared to upcoming 00915, which I‘d also love for its display caseback, 300m wr, sandwich dial, screwed lugs). So for myself, I think I may have been better off waiting and saving up a little or I don’t know.. That’s neither here nor there, sorry for rambling, just sharing my thoughts that I am realizing buying without being 100% sure apparently gives me anxiety 🙂 

If there was any concern I could of course take it up with the dealer, so really appreciate your looking at this. Replacement strap and clasp, from jeweler (not Panerai but high quality and unworn). I covered numbers on caseback pic because unsure if they are supposed to be posted or not. Thank youu


----------



## nobbylon 2

Genuine, you’re good. Service wise, any good watch service independent guy/girl can do these as it’s basic ETA. €200 max


----------



## TymePeace

I know the photos are not the greatest, and this is a older watch and beat up but is this Luminor Marina authentic?


----------



## MrKane213

nobbylon 2 said:


> Genuine, you're good. Service wise, any good watch service independent guy/girl can do these as it's basic ETA. €200 max


Thanks for quick reply and additional info about service, much appreciated. Happy it looks genuine. Honestly it'd be scary if fakes were that accurately copied/indistinguishable, which I really hope isn't the case. ETA base as a possible upside to going preowned (as opposed to 8 days in-house) helps my anxiety, thanks again


----------



## CMSgt Bo

TymePeace said:


> I know the photos are not the greatest, and this is a older watch and beat up but is this Luminor Marina authentic?


Not even close to being real.


----------



## TymePeace

Thanks


----------



## Edgenumber

How about this one, can anyone help me out please?

































I can ask beter pictures.

Pro's:
- Seller is reputable on dutch forum;
- i can go see it in person;

con's:
- the warrenty card shows a turkish vendor. Turky is not well nown for it's genuine products, and i can't seem to find the vendor. But he might me out of business.
- How to spot a fake 00025. On a 112 there are some give away's between a real ones decoration on the movement and some of the better fakes on the web.

any tips? any pointers?


----------



## ak78

Man this scares the heck out of me .. i have been wanting a Pam 251 Daylight forever and it seems ebay is the only place to find them but its a closed caseback so how so you truly know? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nobbylon 2

ak78 said:


> Man this scares the heck out of me .. i have been wanting a Pam 251 Daylight forever and it seems ebay is the only place to find them but its a closed caseback so how so you truly know?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Pics front and back, in focus with numbers.


----------



## murokello

TymePeace said:


> I know the photos are not the greatest, and this is a older watch and beat up but is this Luminor Marina authentic?


 One of the worst fakes in this thread.


----------



## ak78

Gen 127?















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nobbylon 2

fake


----------



## ak78

nobbylon 2 said:


> fake


Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dredzz

100% fake


----------



## ak78

How about this one?
















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## murokello

ak78 said:


> How about this one?
> View attachment 15022771
> View attachment 15022773
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Fake


----------



## ak78

murokello said:


> Fake


Really? Are you sure? Mind if i ask why?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## matthewq10

Real or fake? If fake, why?


----------



## murokello

matthewq10 said:


> Real or fake? If fake, why?


 Fake.


----------



## matthewq10

Is the give away the screws in the swan neck regulator?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

matthewq10 said:


> Real or fake? If fake, why?


FAKE
Because its JUNK
A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

matthewq10 said:


> Real or fake? If fake, why?


FAKE
BECAUSE its JUNK


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

matthewq10 said:


> Real or fake? If fake, why?


Fake
Because its JUNK


----------



## nobbylon 2

matthewq10 said:


> Is the give away the screws in the swan neck regulator?


3 posts and all you contribute since 2014 is your needs! It's fake, do your own homework.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

nobbylon 2 said:


> 3 posts and all you contribute since 2014 is your needs! It's fake, do your own homework.


CORRECT!


----------



## matthewq10

nobbylon 2 said:


> matthewq10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the give away the screws in the swan neck regulator?
> 
> 
> 
> 3 posts and all you contribute since 2014 is your needs! It's fake, do your own homework.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply and your help. To be honest i dont remember signing up in 2014 - but clearly i did. Ive moved about 5 times accross 4 states since then so havent had a lot of time for watches, so today is my first real day on this site. The 2 posts are from today and are the same post as i am still figuring out how to navigate this site. I just bought by first automatic watch (seiko skx007) about 4 months ago. So im trying to learn and do my homework - that is part of why i am here. I look forward to contributing more as i learn and have anything to contribute. I just learned what a swan neck regulator is last night....thanks again for the help. I appreciate the wealth of knowledge everyone has and looking forward to learning more!


----------



## MrKane213

nobbylon 2 said:


> Genuine, you're good. Service wise, any good watch service independent guy/girl can do these as it's basic ETA. €200 max


Just an update with some service pricing info and to confirm nobbylon's assessment (thanks again!): with „lockdown" loosened in my area I brought the watch to local watch guy and he said he could do a service for 120€, I asked for a quote on a new crystal. My watch guy sent the watch to Panerai since he can't source the crystal - they confirmed it was genuine and offered new crystal at 260€. Regards


----------



## toronto240z

PAM 104 real or fake?
Watch came with inner box, warranty card, booklets, COSC cert, Panerai sticker tags, screwdriver and pin tool and leather and rubber panerai strap as well as a deployant clasp.



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bergerp111

just wondering you know..


----------



## Sergei T.

Expert suggestion needed, this PAM111 has been priced for 3k USD, then raised up to 3,6k - without papers, only with box...
Knowing how hard is to find out and identify a fake PAM on Unitas movement your advise here is highly appreciated.


----------



## nobbylon 2

Genuine PAM00111


----------



## rg21044

Can anyone weigh in on this one...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MENS-PANER...:g:eL8AAOSw9D1epixt&LH_BIN=1&autorefresh=true


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rg21044 said:


> Can anyone weigh in on this one...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MENS-PANER...:g:eL8AAOSw9D1epixt&LH_BIN=1&autorefresh=true


Watch appears GENUINE
BUT "A+" condition - I dont think so.
Screw case back is mauled - why was it opened, and by a butcher?
That would concern me
Adam


----------



## rg21044

Thank you

Is this a PAM210?


----------



## watchdoc168

duplicate. delete


----------



## watchdoc168

Can someone weight on the authenticity of this panerai? Thanks everyone and stay safe!

View attachment 15144037
View attachment 15144039
View attachment 15144045
View attachment 15144047
View attachment 15144049


----------



## toronto240z

Is that a PAM 118? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## watchdoc168

Pam 61


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

watchdoc168 said:


> Can someone weight on the authenticity of this panerai? Thanks everyone and stay safe!
> 
> View attachment 15144037
> View attachment 15144039
> View attachment 15144045
> View attachment 15144047
> View attachment 15144049


This is GENUINE
PAM 061
ENJOY


----------



## rg21044

Could someone share their expert opinion on this watch....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Ra...873101?hash=item54843d754d:g:vscAAOSw1T1euBKx

Thank you for your time.


----------



## rg21044

Could someone share their expert opinion on this watch....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Ra...873101?hash=item54843d754d:g:vscAAOSw1T1euBKx

Thank you for your time.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

rg21044 said:


> Could someone share their expert opinion on this watch....
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panerai-Ra...873101?hash=item54843d754d:g:vscAAOSw1T1euBKx
> 
> Thank you for your time.


Watch is genuine - BUT beware a seller 22 points
A


----------



## agitlits

Hi,

Could I please get a confirmation whether this PAM 557 appears genuine?
Thinking of possibly adding this to my PAM 312.






























Thanks a lot in advance

Alex


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

agitlits said:


> Hi,
> 
> Could I please get a confirmation whether this PAM 557 appears genuine?
> Thinking of possibly adding this to my PAM 312.
> 
> View attachment 15153369
> 
> View attachment 15153371
> 
> View attachment 15153373
> 
> View attachment 15153375
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance
> 
> Alex


GENUINE


----------



## agitlits

Thanks a lot for your help, Horologist007!


----------



## watchdoc168

Just received this Pam 005 from a reputable dealer on this site. h series 2005 production. Want to make sure it's authentic. Thank and stay safe!

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cb1111

watchdoc168 said:


> Just received this Pam 005 from a reputable dealer on this site. h series 2005 production. Want to make sure it's authentic. Thank and stay safe!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 No comment about authenticity, but that movement needs a full service. I hope you figured that into the price.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

watchdoc168 said:


> Just received this Pam 005 from a reputable dealer on this site. h series 2005 production. Want to make sure it's authentic. Thank and stay safe!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think genuine
BUT
The ratchet wheel does not look original to me NOR the screw holding it.
I would not touch it
Who wants to look at a franken movement through an exhibition back
Adam


----------



## watchdoc168

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> I think genuine
> BUT
> The ratchet wheel does not look original to me NOR the screw holding it.
> I would not touch it
> Who wants to look at a franken movement through an exhibition back
> Adam


Thanks for taking the look. I have reached out to the seller. I had full confidence in the purchase and the seller is a well respected/reviewed on the forum here. Hopefully a resolution can be reached before I take further actions.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

watchdoc168 said:


> Thanks for taking the look. I have reached out to the seller. I had full confidence in the purchase and the seller is a well respected/reviewed on the forum here. Hopefully a resolution can be reached before I take further actions.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thats fine


----------



## isrelative

I have a trade offer that includes a Panerai PAM00126. Not the greatest photos, but just trying to do my due diligence to verify authenticity. Thanks!



http://imgur.com/jg6JpdJ


----------



## isrelative

I have a trade offer that includes a Panerai PAM00126. Not the greatest photos, but just trying to do my due diligence to verify authenticity. Thanks!



http://imgur.com/jg6JpdJ


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

isrelative said:


> I have a trade offer that includes a Panerai PAM00126. Not the greatest photos, but just trying to do my due diligence to verify authenticity. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/jg6JpdJ


Well you will NOT do "due diligence" with crappy photos like that
From what I can see - looks fake to me.
Proceed with caution


----------



## isrelative

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Well you will NOT do "due diligence" with crappy photos like that
> From what I can see - looks fake to me.
> Proceed with caution


What sorts of better photos should I request? Or is the only definitive way to tell by opening the caseback and looking at the movement?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

isrelative said:


> What sorts of better photos should I request? Or is the only definitive way to tell by opening the caseback and looking at the movement?


Of course opening the back and photo of movement balance wheel will 100% confirm
You need clear photos of dial. crown guard area back and front and back case engraving
A


----------



## newyorktimes88

Anyone know if this PAM 531 is genuine? I am about to pull the trigger, but this is my first Panerai purchase and the price is way below market. Thank you for your advice.


----------



## Edgenumber

Hi there, maby a bit of a different question. I'm seeing quite some panerai on chrono that have, how should I put it, a verry industrial finish around the lugs.
Are these fake or could they be real?
And what is it? Didn't panerai care in 2007 (can't inmagine), or are they bad brush jobs.


----------



## murokello

Edgenumber said:


> Hi there, maby a bit of a different question. I'm seeing quite some panerai on chrono that have, how should I put it, a verry industrial finish around the lugs.
> Are these fake or could they be real?
> And what is it? Didn't panerai care in 2007 (can't inmagine), or are they bad brush jobs.


Can you post more pics? Especially pics of the movement.


----------



## granzzow

murokello said:


> Take movement pics.


Please advise.


----------



## montelatici

If it is "way below market" it is probably not authentic. From the photos, the overall finish looks unusual to me. They make such good copies of movements these days, sone disassembly is usually needed to confirm authenticity.


----------



## elchuckee77

I would say that is a terrible looking Panerai. Fake.


----------



## Algo

Hi guys, pam00346 what do you think? Thanks in advance


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

looks good to me


----------



## Algo

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> looks good to me


Thanks Horologist Bond, your feedback is much appreciated!


----------



## vy7478

Hi all, looking at a PAM210 from a reputable online seller that I have had great experience dealing with. Would appreciate it if anyone spots any red flags from these unfortunately
mediocre pictures, thank you!


----------



## nanuq

AlBundy said:


> Wonder why it has a swannneck when clearly it is non-functional


Exactly. The neck appears to be one piece with the regulating pointer, and that pointer is not attached to the regulating arm on the jewel support. And the screw that pushes the swan neck needs a tall head, and much darker in color.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

not the best photo, but appears genuine to me


----------



## vy7478

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> not the best photo, but appears genuine to me


Thank you!


----------



## aacbuk

Hi All, hope you can help. I bought this Panerai Luminor Marina on a British Airways flight from the USA to the UK in about 2005, from their little Duty Free shop. I knew nothing about watches at the time, unboxed the watch, slapped it on my wrist and threw the box and its contents in the rubbish.

I wore it a few times, then life got in the way, moved houses a couple of times etc, and managed to forget about it.

As you can see from the images, it needs a clean etc.

I became curious about it recently whilst unpacking a moving box. I gave the watch a couple of shakes and the mechanism sparked into life as if it were new.

Whilst I would not expect British Airways to sell fakes, the price of Panerais now, to what I paid then are night and day different. As a result, Im trying to identify the exact model. Current submersibles have the quarter marks on the bezel after 12, whilst this one has them before 12. I have found some Panerais online with the quarter marks at the same position as mine, so I dont believe this rules it out. The fonts used look good for those at the time I bought the watch, though the face does not have AUTOMATIC printed on it or a logo like some. The mechanism looks very impressive, the large rocking part (has etched Panerai symbols in it.) For me, the quality and feel of the watch suggest its not a fake thats been passed off as real, but you guys are the experts.

Any thoughts?

Thank You In Advance.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

FAKE 
I can not believe you bought that on a BA flight
Apart from fact BA is not an AD
BA dont sell fakes on flights
This is junk and you know it!


----------



## jorgelm12

Hello all! Newbie here and don't know much about the brand. My grandmother passed away recently and we found this watch in her jewelry box. No paperwork, box or other packaging available...just the watch. Do you guys think it's real? I can't find any model number or information online that matches the face/back of the watch. Any information will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

jorgelm12 said:


> Hello all! Newbie here and don't know much about the brand. My grandmother passed away recently and we found this watch in her jewelry box. No paperwork, box or other packaging available...just the watch. Do you guys think it's real? I can't find any model number or information online that matches the face/back of the watch. Any information will be greatly appreciated.
> View attachment 15410858
> View attachment 15410859
> View attachment 15410860
> View attachment 15410861


PURE JUNK
FAKE


----------



## TverTrekker

Howdy Y'all

I am new to Panerai but learning quickly. I was hoping to see if I might be able to get some opinions from the forum on the attached Panerai. It looks to be a 1950 Luminor Marina but oddly enough it does not have the date window, I have seen on other similar variants. It has a skeleton back and does somewhat look to be authentic but not sure as I have not seen 1950 with Firenze on it. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

All the Best

TverTrekker


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Why did you not take smaller photos?
Whats the OP number on the back?


----------



## M_Bisco

Hi guys , new to the panerai world. Looking at buying my 1st. 
PAM1499
Let me know what you think.
Thanks!


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

M_Bisco said:


> Hi guys , new to the panerai world. Looking at buying my 1st.
> PAM1499
> Let me know what you think.
> Thanks!
> View attachment 15419582
> View attachment 15419583


Looks fake to me
But need better clear photo of the balance wheel area hacked
A


----------



## M_Bisco

Here are a couple more.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

I JUST want to see the balance wheel (hacked) straight on.
No one can verify from those ohotos!


----------



## M_Bisco

Unfortunately that's all I can get, but I really do appreciate the help.
Will be going to an AD to authenticate.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Well those photos are worse than the first two.
Everything hidden even plastic bezel and crown guard is on it.
You can not see anything, but movement looks suspect!


----------



## M_Bisco

Hi guys, thanks for the insight and info. Here are a couple more.


----------



## M_Bisco

The watch is registered for the additional Pam Guard extended warranty. Just thought I'd throw that in.


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

M_Bisco said:


> Hi guys, thanks for the insight and info. Here are a couple more.
> View attachment 15451479
> View attachment 15451479


This is GENUINE


----------



## M_Bisco

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> This is GENUINE


Beautiful, very much appreciated!


----------



## lux_user

Hello guys!! I'm new to Panerai World and i hope you can help me. I bought a Panerai Pam 112 from a private seller 1 month ago. He's a referenced seller but if you give me a legit check will be graetly appreciated. The only doubt I have is the less of K in the warranty card (franfurt instead of frankfurt).


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

This is GOOD - GENUINE


----------



## secmar44

Genuine


----------



## weissa7

Hello!

NEWBIE looking to buy a PAM 111. Im hesitant because I am buying from a private seller. Does this one look real? '






Panerai Luminor Marina PAM 00111 | Ref. PAM 111 Watches on Chrono24


Find low prices for 24 Panerai ref. PAM 00111 watches on Chrono24. Compare deals and buy a ref. PAM 111 watch.




www.chrono24.com





I appreciate any responses!!! Thank you!

(I can rip the picture from that link and post them here too if needed).


----------



## Novacastrian

Hi Guys,
Many thanks for looking at this. Hope the images are suitable. Apologies for the rubbish on the lens. Greg


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

weissa7 said:


> Hello!
> 
> NEWBIE looking to buy a PAM 111. Im hesitant because I am buying from a private seller. Does this one look real? '
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Panerai Luminor Marina PAM 00111 | Ref. PAM 111 Watches on Chrono24
> 
> 
> Find low prices for 24 Panerai ref. PAM 00111 watches on Chrono24. Compare deals and buy a ref. PAM 111 watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.chrono24.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate any responses!!! Thank you!
> 
> (I can rip the picture from that link and post them here too if needed).


This looks good to me
GENUINE
A


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Novacastrian said:


> Hi Guys,
> Many thanks for looking at this. Hope the images are suitable. Apologies for the rubbish on the lens. Greg
> View attachment 15456066
> View attachment 15456061
> View attachment 15456063
> View attachment 15456064
> View attachment 15456065
> View attachment 15456066
> 
> View attachment 15456061
> View attachment 15456063
> View attachment 15456064
> View attachment 15456065


Rubbish photos impossible to tell.
Looks more fake than genuine, nut no good photos


----------



## Novacastrian

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Rubbish photos impossible to tell.
> Looks more fake than genuine, nut no good photos


Hi Horologist 007,
Thanks for responding. Could you please tell me what you would actually need from the photos? 
Is it greater image clarity? 
Is it higher resolution? 
Is it shots of a particular part of dial/ movement?
Many thanks.
Greg


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Novacastrian said:


> Hi Horologist 007,
> Thanks for responding. Could you please tell me what you would actually need from the photos?
> Is it greater image clarity?
> Is it higher resolution?
> Is it shots of a particular part of dial/ movement?
> Many thanks.
> Greg


Hi Greg
We need to see the balance wheel clearly
We need to see the dial and back case of the complete watch
In focus and close as you can
Adam


----------



## Novacastrian

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Hi Greg
> We need to see the balance wheel clearly
> We need to see the dial and back case of the complete watch
> In focus and close as you can
> Adam


Thanks for that, Adam. Are these two photos closer to what you need?
Greg


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Sorry, can not see
But does not look good in my opinion
But thats just an opinion based on poor photos


----------



## weissa7

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> This looks good to me
> GENUINE
> A


Thanks for looking into it!


----------



## Novacastrian

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Sorry, can not see
> But does not look good in my opinion
> But thats just an opinion based on poor photos


Hi Adam, I'm sorry to be a hassle: the photos are the owner's, not mine. Is this any better?


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Novacastrian said:


> Hi Adam, I'm sorry to be a hassle: the photos are the owner's, not mine. Is this any better?
> View attachment 15457659


Better indeed
This should be a PAM090
That uses a caliber OPIX
Nothing like that.
The only ones like that, similar to yours are FAKES
Like here $200!!!!








Luminor Panerai Automatic. PAM90 The original strap... - Depop


Luminor Panerai Automatic. PAM90 The original strap was a Panerai strap (shown in the pictures) a sort of dark blue leather but the clasp broke. I still have... - Sold by @blessedwithlucky7




www.depop.com





stay well away!


----------



## Novacastrian

HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Better indeed
> This should be a PAM090
> That uses a caliber OPIX
> Nothing like that.
> The only ones like that, similar to yours are FAKES
> Like here $200!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luminor Panerai Automatic. PAM90 The original strap... - Depop
> 
> 
> Luminor Panerai Automatic. PAM90 The original strap was a Panerai strap (shown in the pictures) a sort of dark blue leather but the clasp broke. I still have... - Sold by @blessedwithlucky7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.depop.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stay well away!


Hey Adam. Thank you so much for that. I really appreciate your help on this.
Greg


----------



## HOROLOGIST007

Novacastrian said:


> Hey Adam. Thank you so much for that. I really appreciate your help on this.
> Greg


Pleasure its FAKE!


----------



## Dhentschel

Pam 48. Need verification (unsure it's possible without having it opened)
Thanks in advance


----------



## Dhentschel

B


----------



## brento1499

Hello!
I'm hoping some of you knowledgeable people would be able to weigh in on this PAM 111. Someone pointed out to me that it appears that the Officine Panerai logo on the movement is further away from the jewel than it should be, so I am hoping I do not have a fake.


----------



## DieSkim

brento1499 said:


> Hello!
> I'm hoping some of you knowledgeable people would be able to weigh in on this PAM 111. Someone pointed out to me that it appears that the Officine Panerai logo on the movement is further away from the jewel than it should be, so I am hoping I do not have a fake.
> 
> View attachment 15525432
> 
> 
> View attachment 15525434
> 
> View attachment 15525435


Looks good


----------



## sollerak

Looking to pick up my first Panerai and wanted to get some input from folks here - I appreciate the feedback/guidance. Seller is a "trusted seller" on chrono24 so seems fairly legit.


----------



## Dukes72

PAM00025 I am buying

hi guys, I'm relatively new to panerai and am in the process of buying this PAM 00025.

my only concern is that it comes without papers, is there any way of authenticating it form the Chrono24 advert ?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## scak456

Hello All

Pretty sure that this is genuine but would welcome views?





__





Panerai Luminor Base Logo PAM 00000 | Chrono24.co.uk


Find the best prices for Panerai PAM 00000 on Chrono24.co.uk. Compare watches & purchase securely.




www.chrono24.co.uk





Many thanks


----------



## bigclive2011

Chrono 24 is normally a safe place to buy from especially from one of their dealers.

The payment will not be taken until you are 100% happy with the watch.


----------



## scak456

bigclive2011 said:


> Chrono 24 is normally a safe place to buy from especially from one of their dealers.
> 
> The payment will not be taken until you are 100% happy with the watch.


Many thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.


----------



## Stephen2020

Can people confirm the one on the right is fake, because of the name on the movement positioning and maybe the regulator parts colour (unless that is the lighting situation)? The seller says they inherited it and have no box. The one on the left is what I found for reference on google images.


----------



## DieSkim

Lighting is an issue, but right does not appear to be genuine.


----------



## bigclive2011

The logo on the sample shot is partly hidden by the edge of the watch which is strange, I would expect the logo to be fully visible through the case back? As on the one for sale.

Can he send you any better pics of the movement from straight on with more backlighting.


----------



## Stephen2020

Yes, 
I looked at some more google images about the name position, I wonder if they might both be fakes! I have not been in contact with the seller, just a listing I saw, but the way the name is right on the edge of the jewel hole I don't think i'd be confident about buying it now,
Thanks.


----------



## bigclive2011

Stephen2020 said:


> Yes,
> I looked at some more google images about the name position, I wonder if they might both be fakes! I have not been in contact with the seller, just a listing I saw, but the way the name is right on the edge of the jewel hole I don't think i'd be confident about buying it now,
> Thanks.


Plenty more to choose from, if there's anything else about Panerai it's that the fakers love em, so you have to be 100% happy.


----------



## Stephen2020

bigclive2011 said:


> Plenty more to choose from, if there's anything else about Panerai it's that the fakers love em, so you have to be 100% happy.


Yes, I just messaged them anyway to see what happens, not that I expect to feel better about its realness.


----------



## DieSkim

Stephen2020 said:


> Yes,
> I looked at some more google images about the name position, I wonder if they might both be fakes! I have not been in contact with the seller, just a listing I saw, but the way the name is right on the edge of the jewel hole I don't think i'd be confident about buying it now,
> Thanks.


Bud, if label position is your biggest concern on that watch, you should rather purchase through an official seller.


----------



## Stephen2020

I was doing the whole point of this thread, asking to gain knowledge. If something is glaringly obvious to you, maybe you could assist the rest of us with the informatiom?


----------



## DieSkim

Stephen2020 said:


> I was doing the whole point of this thread, asking to gain knowledge. If something is glaringly obvious to you, maybe you could assist the rest of us with the informatiom?


You are looking at an M series piece which has been in the market since 2010. If you do any kind of research, or just read the thread you are posting in, the obvious will be evident... But then again, how long before the fakers start correcting the things we are knit picking on?


----------



## smokescreen

Stephen2020 said:


> Can people confirm the one on the right is fake, because of the name on the movement positioning and maybe the regulator parts colour (unless that is the lighting situation)? The seller says they inherited it and have no box. The one on the left is what I found for reference on google images.
> 
> View attachment 15563800


Yes, I can confirm the one on the right is counterfeit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Stephen2020

Thanks.
Also, after I messaged them for more photos, they did not reply and withdrew it from sale.


----------



## Muhd Shaq

Hi fellow Paneristis.. this is my first time buying a Panerai (PAM305). And I'm buying it from another person..
The seller has kindly sent me some unboxing videos.. Would anyone be able to help take a look and see if it's likely to be genuine or fake? Thanks!

*Vid1 : 



Vid2: 



Vid3: 



*


----------



## DieSkim

You will require some decent photos of the movement to allow us to start guessing... But will you actually receive the watch shown, or a close copy?


----------



## Muhd Shaq

Yes I will receive it when I purchased it. 😊I could take some close up shots then. 😊


----------



## elchuckee77

sollerak said:


> Looking to pick up my first Panerai and wanted to get some input from folks here - I appreciate the feedback/guidance. Seller is a "trusted seller" on chrono24 so seems fairly legit.


Beautiful watch.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


----------



## elchuckee77

Stephen2020 said:


> Can people confirm the one on the right is fake, because of the name on the movement positioning and maybe the regulator parts colour (unless that is the lighting situation)? The seller says they inherited it and have no box. The one on the left is what I found for reference on google images.
> 
> View attachment 15563800


I think is a fake. Jewels look off.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


----------



## Hills-Berger

What do you folks think? New with no paperwork or boxes? No recent feedback. Canned description.








Panerai Luminor Marina Men's Black Watch - PAM00299 for sale online | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Panerai Luminor Marina Men's Black Watch - PAM00299 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


----------



## DieSkim

Hills-Berger said:


> What do you folks think? New with no paperwork or boxes? No recent feedback. Canned description.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Panerai Luminor Marina Men's Black Watch - PAM00299 for sale online | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Panerai Luminor Marina Men's Black Watch - PAM00299 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


Images are of a 723


----------



## watchmandragon

DieSkim said:


> Images are of a 723


The PAM is counterfeit. Seller has only 1 positive feedback.

I have reported it to EBay.


----------



## DieSkim

watchmandragon said:


> The PAM is counterfeit. Seller has only 1 positive feedback.
> 
> I have reported it to EBay.


The pictures are stock photos of a 723, whether this is what the seller is going to ship is maybe the question.


----------



## watchmandragon

DieSkim said:


> The pictures are stock photos of a 723, whether this is what the seller is going to ship is maybe the question.


Seller is only selling the watch as per his listings, seller has only 1 positive feedback. Multiple bids from same bidders. Pictures are of a gen.

I asked seller if I bid on the watch and win the watch if the watch is fake will he refund me via EBay, no response. I doubt they will respond to my inquiry.


----------



## Hills-Berger

Thanks guys. I also just reported it but nothing has been done by ebay yet.


----------



## ZachRNZ

Stephen2020 said:


> Can people confirm the one on the right is fake, because of the name on the movement positioning and maybe the regulator parts colour (unless that is the lighting situation)? The seller says they inherited it and have no box. The one on the left is what I found for reference on google images.
> 
> View attachment 15563800


The one on the right is definitely fake. Look at the part I circled in the photo. This is a common piece they get wrong.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Stephen2020

Thanks, nice to have that bit of information


----------



## Brevet

elchuckee77 said:


> I think is a fake. Jewels look off.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


I agree. It's 100% fake. The shock system is wrong. The bevel is too wide.


----------



## Muhd Shaq

Muhd Shaq said:


> Hi fellow Paneristis.. this is my first time buying a Panerai (PAM305). And I'm buying it from another person..
> The seller has kindly sent me some unboxing videos.. Would anyone be able to help take a look and see if it's likely to be genuine or fake? Thanks!
> 
> *Vid1 :
> 
> 
> 
> Vid2:
> 
> 
> 
> Vid3:
> 
> 
> 
> *


Here are the photos! Fake or Real?


----------



## danielb

Could anyone knowledgeable take a look? It's from a trusted seller on chrono with 120 positive reviews.


----------



## bigclive2011

Chrono 24 purchases are not charged to you until you are 100% happy, so no great risks there IMO.

You need the watch in your hands, pictures can lie.


----------



## danielb

Hi guys, some time ago (page number 119)
One of members posted a 000 which was said by Horologist007 to be fake. He haven't log here since 3 months, that's why I ask the question to community - do you have any idea why it could be regarded as a fake?


HOROLOGIST007 said:


> Then Its Fake in my opinion


----------



## lummond

Hello,

First time poster! I received a PAM00000 from my father a few years ago, and have a few concerns about it:
1) At the time he bought it, the price may have been too good to be true
2) The crown guard assembly might look funny
3) The O in LUMINOR looks funny
4) The "SWISS MADE" on the caseback doesn't look engraved

However, it feels great and lumes amazingly.





























































































Thoughts?


----------



## boci202A

lummond said:


> Hello,
> 
> First time poster! I received a PAM00000 from my father a few years ago, and have a few concerns about it:
> 1) At the time he bought it, the price may have been too good to be true
> 2) The crown guard assembly might look funny
> 3) The O in LUMINOR looks funny
> 4) The "SWISS MADE" on the caseback doesn't look engraved
> 
> However, it feels great and lumes amazingly.
> View attachment 15605808
> View attachment 15605811
> View attachment 15605812
> View attachment 15605813
> View attachment 15605814
> View attachment 15605815
> View attachment 15605816
> View attachment 15605817
> View attachment 15605818
> View attachment 15605819
> View attachment 15605820
> View attachment 15605822
> View attachment 15605824
> 
> 
> Thoughts?


That's a replica with Asian 6497 movement.


----------



## lummond

boci202A said:


> That's a replica with Asian 6497 movement.


Grrr. Thought so, especially after seeing the movement. Appreciate your time. Cheers.


----------



## DieSkim

Normally it's the uncle, now the dad.. What is this world coming to?


----------



## jptj24

Hi, new member here... I got my first Panerai and it's this 112 which I got from a dealer in my country who's got mostly Rolex SS sports models... Got this PAM112 from this guy, fullset supposedly, but I have some concerns regarding the crown guard pin, which is brushed. Apparently this small pin is supposed to be polished... the rest of the watch looks quite good. Also the warranty card seems to be plain gray, without the PANERAIPANERAIPANERAI background...


----------



## DieSkim

Mate, IF this 112 is a fake, it's a very good gen... But then again 112 fakes have come a long way.
Chances are the case has been repolished seeing it's supposedly a 2012 model which looks very fresh


----------



## jptj24

DieSkim said:


> Mate, IF this 112 is a fake, it's a very good gen... But then again 112 fakes have come a long way.
> Chances are the case has been repolished seeing it's supposedly a 2012 model which looks very fresh


Hello there, yeah I believe this has been brushed, I can see that the underside of the CG pin remains polished and shows signs of having been tried pushed out. I have found a couple of other chrono24 warranty cards without the PANERAIPANERAIPANERAI background. Seems odd that the card remains blank... It was originally purchased at a Cartier dealer it seems.


----------



## snowempire

Hello forum. As you can see I'm new here and looking to see if the Panerai I purchased is a real or fake. 

I'm attaching photos so you can have a look and let me know what you all think.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## jptj24

snowempire said:


> Hello forum. As you can see I'm new here and looking to see if the Panerai I purchased is a real or fake. They were selling it due to the damage to the bezel and crown guard so I picked it up at a discount. But having it for a bit and looking at it, I'm starting to wonder a if it's real. The year code is 'F' which would put it at 2003. It looks though like the caliber is a OP II (but I'm not sure) and I don't think those were made in 2003. The strap is not genuine for sure.
> 
> I'm attaching photos so you can have a look and let me know what you all think.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Do you mind sharing how much you paid for the watch? Leaving behind the authenticity question, the condition is very very rough. Can you actually activate the lever? Seems like there no Crown Guard pin at all. I can tell you the balance assembly and the swan neck are real. But the bridges finishing looks a bit rough.


----------



## snowempire

jptj24 said:


> Do you mind sharing how much you paid for the watch? Leaving behind the authenticity question, the condition is very very rough. Can you actually activate the lever? Seems like there no Crown Guard pin at all. I can tell you the balance assembly and the swan neck are real. But the bridges finishing looks a bit rough.


I paid less than 2k for the watch.


----------



## snowempire

jptj24 said:


> Do you mind sharing how much you paid for the watch? Leaving behind the authenticity question, the condition is very very rough. Can you actually activate the lever? Seems like there no Crown Guard pin at all. I can tell you the balance assembly and the swan neck are real. But the bridges finishing looks a bit rough.


Oh and yes I can activate the lever and adjust the time with no problem.


----------



## murokello

snowempire said:


> Oh and yes I can activate the lever and adjust the time with no problem.


Why did you remove the pics?


----------



## LuckyLex

Hi everyone. I just purchased a PAM 196 and noticed that mine came with the spelling of "tachymeter". I thought that was strange but all the boxes and papers match the serial. I didn't realize this until I noticed it wasn't the same as the the picture in the manual. Did any the G series PAM 196 have the spelling of "TACHYMETER"? This is a G0417/1200.


----------



## Stephen2020

Do you mean the spelling, or the word being there? I only know one way to spell it, as on the watch.


----------



## LuckyLex

Stephen2020 said:


> Do you mean the spelling, or the word being there? I only know one way to spell it, as on the watch.


Sorry, I should have been clear. I'm wondering if this watch is authentic.


----------



## DieSkim

LuckyLex said:


> Sorry, I should have been clear. I'm wondering if this watch is authentic.


Looks fine from the outside


----------



## LuckyLex

DieSkim said:


> Looks fine from the outside


Thank you for your help


----------



## Stephen2020

Can I have some opinions on this please? I thought it mostly looked ok, but some of the caseback writing looks incorrectly parallel, although might be camera distortion. But looks rough around the '1000', not sharp.


----------



## montelatici

Stephen2020 said:


> Do you mean the spelling, or the word being there? I only know one way to spell it, as on the watch.


Actually, it is sometimes spelled "tachymetre" like on my El Primero.


----------



## Stephen2020

Interesting, I have only ever been aware of it as tachymeter.


----------



## murokello

Stephen2020 said:


> Interesting, I have only ever been aware of it as tachymeter.


Different languages.


----------



## vy7478

Hi all, 

Planning to pick up this mint 112 gray market, supposedly with box and papers. I've been doing some research and this appears authentic to me, does any red flags jump out to any of you? Thanks everyone and hope you're having a good weekend!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## jptj24

vy7478 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Planning to pick up this mint 112 gray market, supposedly with box and papers. I've been doing some research and this appears authentic to me, does any red flags jump out to any of you? Thanks everyone and hope you're having a good weekend!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


It's looking alright to me. A lookup on the PAM Guard website using the serial number brings the following result.


----------



## vy7478

jptj24 said:


> It's looking alright to me. A lookup on the PAM Guard website using the serial number brings the following result.


Thanks a lot!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## ar7iste

Hello guys,

Maybe you can help me with this one (pam560). The seller has 0 feedback but is very responsive and provided some names as references. The watch looks in very good condition and I don’t see any red flag on the watch itself. The price is the same as thewatchbox and other websites before negotiation. I am willing to go with him because of the condition of the watch. What do you think?
Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## jptj24

ar7iste said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Maybe you can help me with this one (pam560). The seller has 0 feedback but is very responsive and provided some names as references. The watch looks in very good condition and I don't see any red flag on the watch itself. The price is the same as thewatchbox and other websites before negotiation. I am willing to go with him because of the condition of the watch. What do you think?
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> View attachment 15718632
> View attachment 15718636


Hi, it looks absolutely fine. The P5000 movement is not even close to being properly faked. It's usually a fake 6497 with a glued on, horribly cheap plate that resembles the bridges on the real P5000. The gear on the fake one is not even a gear, just a glued on crap. The one on your pictures is 100% fine.
PD: you might want to keep that BB number on the pictures, private, usually you don't want counterfeiters looking at gen serial numbers.


----------



## ar7iste

jptj24 said:


> Hi, it looks absolutely fine. The P5000 movement is not even close to being properly faked. It's usually a fake 6497 with a glued on, horribly cheap plate that resembles the bridges on the real P5000. The gear on the fake one is not even a gear, just a glued on crap. The one on your pictures is 100% fine.
> PD: you might want to keep that BB number on the pictures, private, usually you don't want counterfeiters looking at gen serial numbers.


Thank you for the feedback! I removed the pictures as advised, I appreciate the concern.


----------



## VincentDurden

Hello everyone!
It is my first post on this forum so first of all hello and all the best to everyone!
Could you please help me with this one? Is there anything suspicious? Serial number corresponds to warranty card, movement number to COSC certificate. Incablock and swan neck seems OK.
Thank you in advance!


----------



## bigclive2011

Buy the seller, are you happy with them.


----------



## jptj24

VincentDurden said:


> Hello everyone!
> It is my first post on this forum so first of all hello and all the best to everyone!
> Could you please help me with this one? Is there anything suspicious? Serial number corresponds to warranty card, movement number to COSC certificate. Incablock and swan neck seems OK.
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> View attachment 15720316
> View attachment 15720317


Hi, a closer picture of the movement would be necessary to tell for sure...


----------



## VincentDurden

Hi,
few more pictures of the mvmt.
Thank you!


----------



## jptj24

VincentDurden said:


> Hi,
> few more pictures of the mvmt.
> Thank you!
> 
> View attachment 15720443
> View attachment 15720444
> View attachment 15720472


I'm not 100% about certain detail with the bridges. Would suggest you get more opinions from the forum and check the Pam Guard website using the BB/PB number. Should match 100% with what you see. Papers and stickers would help.


----------



## VincentDurden

Hi,
I checked Pam Guard website and it recognized my serial number. What I see there matches with my timepiece.
What was your concern with the bridges?
Thanks


----------



## jptj24

jptj24 said:


> I'm not 100% about certain detail with the bridges. Would suggest you get more opinions from the forum and check the Pam Guard website using the BB/PB number. Should match 100% with what you see. Papers and stickers would help.





VincentDurden said:


> Hi,
> I checked Pam Guard website and it recognized my serial number. What I see there matches with my timepiece.
> What was your concern with the bridges?
> Thanks


I've seen cases where fake watches have actual genuine serial numbers but those belong to different models altogether. So if your watch shows the exact same timepiece (should even be same leather strap color as well) that's a good sign.

My concern has to do with the placement of the Office Panerai engraving. Look closely at OP XI movements and usually the placement is closer to the third wheel jewel. But this might be natural variance among Panerai manufacture, I'm not sure though.


----------



## VincentDurden

jptj24 said:


> I've seen cases where fake watches have actual genuine serial numbers but those belong to different models altogether. So if your watch shows the exact same timepiece (should even be same leather strap color as well) that's a good sign.
> 
> My concern has to do with the placement of the Office Panerai engraving. Look closely at OP XI movements and usually the placement is closer to the third wheel jewel. But this might be natural variance among Panerai manufacture, I'm not sure though.


Hi, 
I was comparing with the movement from:
Panerai Calibre OP XI Movement - Panerai Central

Looks the same for me.

Cheers!


----------



## MattyMac

It looks good from what I'm looking at



VincentDurden said:


> Hi,
> I was comparing with the movement from:
> Panerai Calibre OP XI Movement - Panerai Central
> 
> Looks the same for me.
> 
> Cheers!


----------



## VincentDurden

Thank you!


----------



## jaguire

Well sold a new Harley to a guy at work and noticed his panerai. We got to talking and he offered to sell it to me. Me and a few watch buddies at work checked it out and thought it looked legit—seller said it was bought from Japan via eBay. Is it possible to tell without opening it up? Typed serial # in panerai guard and it came up same watch and strap. It is consistently 2seconds fast a day. Look legit?


----------



## AlBundy

VincentDurden said:


> Hi,
> I checked Pam Guard website and it recognized my serial number. What I see there matches with my timepiece.
> What was your concern with the bridges?
> Thanks


100% genuine

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wwiseman

This is possibly my favourite pastime - spotting fakes and preventing innocent individuals from falling into the trap.

I recently had a PAM250 - only to discover a few weeks later the crown guard was the "normal" way up, when they're meant to be the opposite (down). It turns out that Panerai serviced it and put the CP back on the wrong way up. We knew it was genuine because even the replicas had the CP the right way round!


----------



## wappinghigh

Hi everyone. I just purchased a PAM 233 off ebay. My guess is I am the 2nd maybe 3rd owner. It's an I series xxxx/1500 so one of the first with the in house 2002 movement. It was sold to me as a full three box set with warranty card etc. One of the reasons I purchased this specific model is I was lead to believe it's not easy to fake that watch - particularly the movement. The watch complications works and looks legit with naked eye but what concerns me is 1/ the spot for the individual watch number on warranty card hasn't been filled out by panerai. It was blank and clearly filled in by the Dealer. Filled in as PAM00233 rather than the serial number. The Serial Card is from the AD Pyrelongue Chronos Mexico. 2/ The Outer cardboard box does not have any specific serial number stickers. Just the printed production's code number etc. It has a white label below this with PNPAA00968 "PANERAI for 1 watch PAM233" on it then the customer order number below that. I am particularly peaved by this as it was sold as a full set. Should I be concerned in particular about that warranty card? The watch is one of the first with an in house movement. The card is dated 2008. My question is were warranty cards from that era _ever_ released from factory without panerai specifically printing the serial number on that card? thanks


----------



## wwiseman

wappinghigh said:


> Hi everyone. I just purchased a PAM 233 off ebay. My guess is I am the 2nd maybe 3rd owner. It's an I series xxxx/1500 so one of the first with the in house 2002 movement. It was sold to me as a full three box set with warranty card etc. One of the reasons I purchased this specific model is I was lead to believe it's not easy to fake that watch - particularly the movement. The watch complications works and looks legit with naked eye but what concerns me is 1/ the spot for the individual watch number on warranty card hasn't been filled out by panerai. It was blank and clearly filled in by the Dealer. Filled in as PAM00233 rather than the serial number. The Serial Card is from the AD Pyrelongue Chronos Mexico. 2/ The Outer cardboard box does not have any specific serial number stickers. Just the printed production's code number etc. It has a white label below this with PNPAA00968 "PANERAI for 1 watch PAM233" on it then the customer order number below that. I am particularly peaved by this as it was sold as a full set. Should I be concerned in particular about that warranty card? The watch is one of the first with an in house movement. The card is dated 2008. My question is were warranty cards from that era _ever_ released from factory without panerai specifically printing the serial number on that card? thanks


I believe the warranty cards back then were left blank for the Retailers to fill out when a purchase was made (see image below) - hence the required update for printed serial numbers/QR codes on the new warranty card. 
I series points to 2006, and the watch allegedly "sold" in 2008. This is normal, the watch can be in display for that amount of time. 
Model stickers are usually included in the accessories, as well as being stuck on the outer cardboard - So it's definitely possible the box & papers have been separately bought to sell it as "Triple Box & Papers".

Some pictures would be useful to help you further!


----------



## wappinghigh




----------



## wappinghigh

I'd rather not post pictures of the watch at this stage. It looks fine and like I say this watch is hard to fake and I'm not aware any fakes are around ... I can get it checked out by someone who knows (and has the exact same reference - Dot dial). I am just a touch peaved it was sold by a so called "paneristi" as a full set. I mean they might not have even had stickers with the reference on them at all to even put on a box etc back then as far as I know??? It is kinda of a set I guess...with correct bands, cover, cloth and 3 boxes etc but there is no where to double check serial number (which I don't want to disclose) vs and cross check on the papers, warranty card or box.. that's what I am slightly annoyed about...Want to check the facts for this early in house reference 1st if/when before I take it further... thanks for the help...


----------



## wappinghigh

Bump^
So is there anything on the box or paperwork that can link me to a specific movement no or serial on the watch?
Thanks


----------



## wappinghigh

^ @wwferno "Model stickers are usually included in the accessories, as well as being stuck on the outer cardboard" Was this the case in 2007- 2008? Thanks!


----------



## wappinghigh

Bump. That movement number on the COSC certificate is not on the watch movement ... Under a loop next to the 2002/1 is an entirely different movement number....2022/1 - 00xxxx... So I guess that settles it?? false (or purchased separately) COSC certificate?.... Can someone please confirm I am on the right track here?


----------



## Edftwin35

It's genuine


----------



## wappinghigh

^ Read my posts. Cross check reference/likely year from reference tables/movement/Guarantee card/stickers/sales receipt yr seem logical?.. if anything doesn't 100% match up... then be super suspicious. Even if you have a legit watch you might have paid to much for "box and papers". My take and reading and watching countless youtubes on this is the market.. even many greys and second hand dealers won't touch PAM.. because there has just been too much fakery going on and my guess is many dealers, and second hand flippers have also been putting together "full sets" in an attempt to move them on..(because there is no other way to sell them) Am I right on this folks?


----------



## Edftwin35

Edftwin35 said:


> Hi all, I just bought this PAM177 with full box, warranty card and sticker. I tried my best to check through the watch and it seems genuine to me but I can't be completely 100% sure that it's not a super replica. So I'm hoping if you guys could help me to verify it. Thanks a lot!
> 
> photos:
> View attachment 15813532
> View attachment 15813533
> View attachment 15813525
> View attachment 15813526
> View attachment 15813527
> View attachment 15813528
> View attachment 15813529
> View attachment 15813530
> View attachment 15813531


Successfully registered on PAM Guard with the watch serial number.


----------



## wappinghigh

Edftwin35 said:


> Successfully registered on PAM Guard with the watch serial number.


How old is your watch and how long did this take?


----------



## Edftwin35

wappinghigh said:


> How old is your watch and how long did this take?


K series - year 2008. Warranty card stamped 22/06/2009.

Serial number registration on PAM Guard only took a couple of minutes.

PAM Guard shows original warranty ended on 21/06/2011


----------



## wappinghigh

Edftwin35 said:


> K series - year 2008. Warranty card stamped 22/06/2009.
> 
> Serial number registration on PAM Guard only took a couple of minutes.
> 
> PAM Guard shows original warranty ended on 21/06/2011


_Seriously_?? I thought you could use this service only for watches currently under original warranty? Like under 2 years old.. You registered a 2008 watch? Huh?


----------



## wwiseman

wappinghigh said:


> Bump. That movement number on the COSC certificate is not on the watch movement ... Under a loop next to the 2002/1 is an entirely different movement number....2022/1 - 00xxxx... So I guess that settles it?? false (or purchased separately) COSC certificate?.... Can someone please confirm I am on the right track here?


It seems to be adding up that they weren't the original box and papers. Although I don't want to say anything definitive!


----------



## espresso&watches

wappinghigh said:


> _Seriously_?? I thought you could use this service only for watches currently under original warranty? Like under 2 years old.. You registered a 2008 watch? Huh?


You can register any Panerai regardless of year for PAM Guard. But it's only going to extend your warranty if it's registered within the original 2 year warranty period. It's little more than a means for Panerai to collect data on its customers, but it is a quick and easy way to determine if a particular watch is indeed genuine.


----------



## wappinghigh

Ok I have worked out it's not a proper full set (so I have discounted the value of that) so here is the watch... is this at least legit? It's an I series 233. GMT functions as it should. Hides well. Second hand hacks up to 12 position. Dot seems to be working OK. Power reserve down one notch in 24hr. Excellent measurements on time grapher. Roller bearing on crown protector and latch closure is smooth.


----------



## MegaMilez

Hey guys, quick question! I'm about to buy a Panerai from an AD - but it is being done over the phone/online. I'm no expert on spotting fakes, but entering the serial/info into the Panerai website is a pretty reliable method? This is a brand new model of course. Just want peace of mind. Thanks!


----------



## wappinghigh

^ Based on my recent experience I would buy in person watching what the dealer does so stickers, Authorisation cards and boxes given etc were filled out correctly.... I would take in a loop and make sure the serial number etc on the watch matched all the documents you are being given. You really want EVERYTHING. Nothing should be thrown away..This really can only be done in person. Cheers


----------



## espresso&watches

MegaMilez said:


> Hey guys, quick question! I'm about to buy a Panerai from an AD - but it is being done over the phone/online. I'm no expert on spotting fakes, but entering the serial/info into the Panerai website is a pretty reliable method? This is a brand new model of course. Just want peace of mind. Thanks!


If it's a new watch from an AD you have absolutely nothing to worry about. If something isn't right when the watch arrives, they'll make it right. I've bought far more expensive watches than Panerai over the phone from an interstate AD - I wouldn't give it a second thought.


----------



## espresso&watches

wappinghigh said:


> Ok I have worked out it's not a proper full set (so I have discounted the value of that) so here is the watch... is this at least legit? It's an I series 233. GMT functions as it should. Hides well. Second hand hacks up to 12 position. Dot seems to be working OK. Power reserve down one notch in 24hr. Excellent measurements on time grapher. Roller bearing on crown protector and latch closure is smooth.


If all the complications are working properly, there's pretty much a 0% chance that the watch isn't authentic.


----------



## wappinghigh

espresso&watches said:


> If all the complications are working properly, there's pretty much a 0% chance that the watch isn't authentic.


Thanks so helpful


----------



## espresso&watches

wappinghigh said:


> Thanks so helpful


The paperwork may be dodgy, but I'd be shocked if the watch wasn't legit.


----------



## bigclive2011

MegaMilez said:


> Hey guys, quick question! I'm about to buy a Panerai from an AD - but it is being done over the phone/online. I'm no expert on spotting fakes, but entering the serial/info into the Panerai website is a pretty reliable method? This is a brand new model of course. Just want peace of mind. Thanks!


If you can't be relaxed buying a new watch from an AD then we are all lost.

Enjoy your new watch.


----------



## m630

espresso&watches said:


> If all the complications are working properly, there's pretty much a 0% chance that the watch isn't authentic.


Agreed, watch looks good ...enjoy whappingnhigh


----------



## Jan Kowalski

Hello to all forum users and please answer the question whether the caliber shown in the picture is original (PAM000). The watch comes from a licensed dealer, there is a box, warranty certificate, barcode stickers. The serial number checked on the PAM.Guard website has confirmed the compliance with the manufactured model.
Meanwhile, I do not have too much data, I intend to buy the watch. Thank you in advance for your opinions and suggestions.


----------



## prabsri

Question to the experts here. I picked up a used PAM560 that looked to be in excellent condition, and it came triple-boxed with all the books included. The serial number in the Certificate and on the outer box matches with the serial on the case-back. However, the Movement number on the certificate differs from the movement number on the P.5000 movement in the watch (see red area in picture below).

Not sure what to make of it. Any thoughts? Is it possible that the movement was replaced since the original sale (maybe a warranty issue)?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Eleilson

Hello, my grandmother dead and i found this Panerai is his house, Can anyone helpme ?


----------



## Gumby992

Eleilson said:


> Hello, my grandmother dead and i found this Panerai is his house, Can anyone helpme ?


Accompanying pics of an obviously fake watch with a dodgy story doesn't add legitimacy.


----------



## JoeJoester

Hey guys,
look what beauty I found in a box of old/damaged watches I bought on ebay for a little money. The lume is broken, the dial rugged, the movement doesn't work, and most of all the crown stem is broken. On it's back it says it is "officially tasted". How can I imagine that? Does a quality engineer lick on the watch at the end of production?

Or is there any way that this could be an older real one? I have no clue of Panerai watches yet....

After the comments I deleted the pictures.... Obviously a fake watch!


----------



## bigclive2011

Best read the rule about fakes Jo.


----------



## JoeJoester

bigclive2011 said:


> Best read the rule about fakes Jo.


Yes, I added my question I forgot at the first time posting it. I have really no idea of Panerai and wonder if there is chance of being real. It obviously seems to be a quite old piece...


----------



## AlBundy

Well, it’s officially tasted. Can’t argue with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Audkat0311

JoeJoester said:


> Hey guys,
> look what beauty I found in a box of old/damaged watches I bought on ebay for a little money. The lume is broken, the dial rugged, the movement doesn't work, and most of all the crown stem is broken. On it's back it says it is "officially tasted". How can I imagine that? Does a quality engineer lick on the watch at the end of production?
> 
> Or is there any way that this could be an older real one? I have no clue of Panerai watches yet....
> 
> View attachment 15904712
> View attachment 15904717
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> ouch


----------



## Audkat0311

ouch


----------



## Smithsj716

Any opinions on this one? Item is Listed incorrectly as a PAM01392 but I have a feeling it's possibly a




























104


----------



## andnad

Looking to get someone's take on this piece: PAM111. The serial on the case doesn't match the warranty card, but the movement number on the case does match the certificate. Not sure if fake, or if the case back or the warranty card are wrong. Pam Guard won't give me anything for either serial. But maybe I'm doing it wrong since this is the first time I've looked at a Panerai. It's on an aftermarket strap there but the original ones are included.


----------



## Swizzlestick

andnad said:


> Looking to get someone's take on this piece: PAM111. The serial on the case doesn't match the warranty card, but the movement number on the case does match the certificate. Not sure if fake, or if the case back or the warranty card are wrong. Pam Guard won't give me anything for either serial. But maybe I'm doing it wrong since this is the first time I've looked at a Panerai. It's on an aftermarket strap there but the original ones are included.
> View attachment 15969968
> View attachment 15969969
> 
> View attachment 15969965
> View attachment 15969966


that is an OK attempt; not a Panerai watch


----------



## Unclehollywood

handwound said:


> OK, everyone. This is the thread to post all your requests for validation of a watch in. Let's not clutter up the forum with dozens of individual threads.


----------



## handwound

Unclehollywood said:


> View attachment 16166030



Very much a fake.


----------



## Scsu74

espresso&watches said:


> You can register any Panerai regardless of year for PAM Guard. But it's only going to extend your warranty if it's registered within the original 2 year warranty period. It's little more than a means for Panerai to collect data on its customers, but it is a quick and easy way to determine if a particular watch is indeed genuine.


So if it's registered through Pam.guard it's pretty well guaranteed to be authentic?

I have the following photos if you or anyone else wouldn't mind taking a look. 

Photos:


http://imgur.com/a/z6UBxv3



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AlBundy

I have the following photos if you or anyone else wouldn't mind taking a look. 

Photos:


http://imgur.com/a/z6UBxv3



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


Seems legit


----------



## espresso&watches

Scsu74 said:


> So if it's registered through Pam.guard it's pretty well guaranteed to be authentic?


I suppose it would be possible for someone to produce a fake that uses a serial number lifted from a legit watch of the same model/year, but that seems pretty unlikely. If everything else checks out and it's registered with Pam.Guard, I'd think you're on pretty firm footing.


----------



## Scsu74

espresso&watches said:


> I suppose it would be possible for someone to produce a fake that uses a serial number lifted from a legit watch of the same model/year, but that seems pretty unlikely. If everything else checks out and it's registered with Pam.Guard, I'd think you're on pretty firm footing.


Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eelpie

Can someone please tell me if item 324805558387 on eBay is genuine?

The seller buys thrift shop junk and it’s unlikely he/she would stumble across something genuine.

Thank you.


----------



## Lugan

eelpie said:


> Can someone please tell me if item 324805558387 on eBay is genuine?


Appears that listing has been removed from eBay.


----------



## eelpie

Lugan said:


> Appears that listing has been removed from eBay.


When I asked for a guarantee of authenticity, the seller ended the auction. The auction is still visible but the item number won’t take you to it any more.

The seller has 15,000 watches listed and they all look like thrift shop junk. The Panerai has a gold looking appliqué on the rotor that has come loose.

They’re offering three really bad Heuer fakes plus God knows what else. Of the thirty or so they’ve listed as automatic, half are clearly manual wind.

I have asked eBay to look into the seller’s tactics as they say on every auction that the watch might need a battery though the things clearly are not running; either they definitely need a battery or they’re broken.

Last week it took five days to get a Rolex marked _Datejust _removed, and it had both day AND date apertures!

What a mess eBay has become . . .


----------



## Lugan

For hand-wound Panerais, are there also fakes of the 8 Days movement-equipped references - including an attempt to fake the movement? Or is this limited to the ETA references, since they'd be easier to copy?


----------



## Stephen2020

I am glad I have got my Black Seal, but before I got it, one of the ones I was interested in was an 8 day, the caseback looked dodgy so I didn't buy it, it might have been camera distortion but I would not risk it.
Ebay can be a great place for great stuff but also an criminals' paradise, recently I sold a watch to someone, he received it at his address, signed for it. Then about a month later he opened a case against me saying it had not arrived, trying to rob me of the item, the item price, and the postal amount, luckily I keep my post office receipts with the tracking number so I could contact ebay and prove he was lying. Ebay said this criminal would be severely punished, the punishment seems to be absolutely nothing, as he is still on there. As feedback cannot be left when a case is opened no one can be warned about him, he may have robbed 1000s of people who no longer had the tracking proof and probably appologised to this criminal as they handed their money to him.


----------



## Hicks_11

Hello,

I need a confirmation on a PAM1312.
The watch has been confirmed as a genius one with its S/N on PAM Guard and with a guarantee QR code scan. It come from a well know trusted seller on chrono24.

The watch is full set (box/guarentee card / black croco + black rubber strap/tools)

Picture below,let me know

Rgds,


----------



## Mischazelf

I'm pretty sure this is not real. Can someone wiser in the ways of the Paneristi explain what is going on here? Serial does not match watch on PAM Guard but I've taken in to a Certified Vintage Watch Dealer in Amsterdam and he would not state if it was real or not - after a good 15 minutes looking.


----------



## hpark21

Mischazelf said:


> I'm pretty sure this is not real. Can someone wiser in the ways of the Paneristi explain what is going on here? Serial does not match watch on PAM Guard but I've taken in to a Certified Vintage Watch Dealer in Amsterdam and he would not state if it was real or not - after a good 15 minutes looking.
> View attachment 16241665
> View attachment 16241668
> View attachment 16241669


The Geneva Striping is atrocious even from me who does not have deep knowledge of Panerai IMHO.
Also, I do believe all Panerai ETA modified movements SHOULD have chamfered gears I believe on those 2 large ones (Maybe except for "Brooklyn bridge original movement")


----------



## Mischazelf

hpark21 said:


> The Geneva Striping is atrocious even from me who does not have deep knowledge of Panerai IMHO.
> 
> Also, I do believe all Panerai ETA modified movements SHOULD have chamfered gears I believe on those 2 large ones (Maybe except for "Brooklyn bridge original movement")


Well, that's more knowledge than me so thanks for sharing. That confirms my suspicion (after looking up 'Geneva Striping' and 'chamfered gears'). Guess I'll be putting that up for sale somewhere.


----------



## Stephen2020

Mischazelf said:


> I'm pretty sure this is not real. Can someone wiser in the ways of the Paneristi explain what is going on here? Serial does not match watch on PAM Guard but I've taken in to a Certified Vintage Watch Dealer in Amsterdam and he would not state if it was real or not - after a good 15 minutes looking.
> View attachment 16241665
> View attachment 16241668
> View attachment 16241669


Immediately it looks fake to me, the name on the movement not equal distance between the lines, and sloping!


----------



## handwound

Mischazelf said:


> I'm pretty sure this is not real. Can someone wiser in the ways of the Paneristi explain what is going on here? Serial does not match watch on PAM Guard but I've taken in to a Certified Vintage Watch Dealer in Amsterdam and he would not state if it was real or not - after a good 15 minutes looking.
> View attachment 16241665
> View attachment 16241668
> View attachment 16241669


There are many, many, MANY things wrong with that watch. Without question a fake - I hope you didn't pay for it.


----------



## Mischazelf

handwound said:


> There are many, many, MANY things wrong with that watch. Without question a fake - I hope you didn't pay for it.


Thanks. I didn't (and I have just purchased a PAM00112 - real). However, just stating many, MANY things are wrong (sounds like Commandant Lassard) is not teaching me much. I asked so I could learn. Can you point out the flaws? HPark21 said Chamfered gears and Geneva striping, what else can you see?


----------



## handwound

Mischazelf said:


> Thanks. I didn't (and I have just purchased a PAM00112 - real). However, just stating many, MANY things are wrong (sounds like Commandant Lassard) is not teaching me much. I asked so I could learn. Can you point out the flaws? HPark21 said Chamfered gears and Geneva striping, what else can you see?


Oh, boy, where to start?

Yes, the CdG striping is terrible quality. Yes, the windind gears are wrong. Looks like the "OFFICINE PANERAI" on the movement - in addition to being crooked, as well as too large - might actually be stickers and not engraved into the bridge. No swan neck regulator. The crown is garbage. The crown guard appears to be the wrong style for an H series Luminor. The canon pin is wrong. Lastly, and maybe most importantly, Panerai never made a "Marina Militare" and "Luminor Panerai" sandwich dial for the H series, or for any other year that I'm aware of. 

There are some scary-good fake watches out there. This is not one of them.


----------



## Mischazelf

handwound said:


> Oh, boy, where to start?
> 
> Yes, the CdG striping is terrible quality. Yes, the windind gears are wrong. Looks like the "OFFICINE PANERAI" on the movement - in addition to being crooked, as well as too large - might actually be stickers and not engraved into the bridge. No swan neck regulator. The crown is garbage. The crown guard appears to be the wrong style for an H series Luminor. The canon pin is wrong. Lastly, and maybe most importantly, Panerai never made a "Marina Militare" and "Luminor Panerai" sandwich dial for the H series, or for any other year that I'm aware of.
> 
> There are some scary-good fake watches out there. This is not one of them.


Thank you! Now I've learned. I appreciate it!
Glad I bought a real one 😎


----------



## handwound

Mischazelf said:


> Thank you! Now I've learned. I appreciate it!
> Glad I bought a real one 😎


I'm glad you did, as well.

Notice the difference between your picture and a real Panerai OPXI movement:


----------



## Mischazelf

handwound said:


> I'm glad you did, as well.
> 
> Notice the difference between your picture and a real Panerai OPXI movement:
> 
> View attachment 16266912


Wow. Big difference. Thx.


----------



## Jonathan T

Mischazelf said:


> I'm pretty sure this is not real. Can someone wiser in the ways of the Paneristi explain what is going on here? Serial does not match watch on PAM Guard but I've taken in to a Certified Vintage Watch Dealer in Amsterdam and he would not state if it was real or not - after a good 15 minutes looking.
> View attachment 16241665
> View attachment 16241668
> View attachment 16241669



The "Officine Panerai" looks obviously misaligned. Amateur job - looks like a sticker got slapped onto it or something!


----------



## Mischazelf

Jonathan T said:


> The "Officine Panerai" looks obviously misaligned. Amateur job - looks like a sticker got slapped onto it or something!


Thx. That was already mentioned.


----------



## Jonathan T

Mischazelf said:


> Thx. That was already mentioned.


sorry, yes i just read the rest of the thread afterwards


----------



## Mischazelf

Jonathan T said:


> sorry, yes i just read the rest of the thread afterwards


😁


----------



## Chris_barry

Matty01 said:


> What do u think guys?


looks nice at first glance.


----------



## Evansdad

It came from a family member about 15 years ago. No papers or box. It's a PAM00055. It keeps great time, I wear it often, I take care of it and just want to keep it functioning well. If I send it in for service through Panerai, would they authenticate it for me? Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## handwound

Looks legit to me, Evansdad. 

Panerai will obviously _not_ service a fake watch, but I don't think they offer any sort of certificate of authenticity or similar, per se. Having said that, a service receipt showing the watch S/N would be a de facto certificate of authenticity, IMO. You'll also get a year of factory warranty and almost certainly a cool little soft-sided "travel case" for the watch.


----------



## Stephen2020

See if there is information on the power reserve they have, (not just any 6497 because Panerai probably modified the movement) and see if yours is aroumd the same.


----------



## irclark61

Saw this on a pawnshop website, looks NQR to me. What do you think?


----------



## handwound

Stephen2020 said:


> See if there is information on the power reserve they have, (not just any 6497 because Panerai probably modified the movement) and see if yours is aroumd the same.


As far as I'm aware, the decorated 6497-2 movements used by Panerai had the same power reserve as any 6497-2. Power reserve comes down to main spring and beat-rate, essentially.


----------



## Stephen2020

Yes, useful to know.
(I had wondered if they had reduced the balance diameter to increase the rate, or done anything else)


----------



## handwound

Stephen2020 said:


> Yes, useful to know.
> (I had wondered if they had reduced the balance diameter to increase the rate, or done anything else)


Not that I'm aware of, but I can't swear they didn't.


----------



## handwound

*BEAT RATE:*
The big difference between the two 6497 variants is that -1 beats at *18,800vph* while the -2 beats at *21,600vph*. The -2 can be found in watches like Panerai and typically costs more.

*POWER RESERVE:*
Another lesser known difference between the 6497-1 and 6497-2 is that the -1 has a power reserve of about 44 hours and the -2 has a power reserve of about *53 hours*.



https://calibercorner.com/eta-unitas-caliber-6497-1-vs-6497-2/




*PANERAI CALIBER OP XI*

*Power Reserve*56 hours*Vibrations Per Hour*21,600



https://calibercorner.com/panerai-caliber-op-xi/




Despite the +3 hr claimed PR increase, I'm betting it's just a decorated 6497-2.


----------



## Stephen2020

Yes, and quite a chunk of time though, 12 hours less for a basic version that a faker might use!


----------



## Snowback

handwound said:


> Looks legit to me, Evansdad.
> 
> Panerai will obviously _not_ service a fake watch, but I don't think they offer any sort of certificate of authenticity or similar, per se. Having said that, a service receipt showing the watch S/N would be a de facto certificate of authenticity, IMO. You'll also get a year of factory warranty and almost certainly a cool little soft-sided "travel case" for the watch.


 I believe you get a 2 year (24 month) warranty with a Panerai full service


----------



## handwound

Snowback said:


> I believe you get a 2 year (24 month) warranty with a Panerai full service


Yep, you're right.



https://www.panerai.com/content/dam/rcq/pan/18/01/07/1/1801071.pdf


----------



## Edgenumber

Hi, I've got two questions.

I'm looking a two different watches right now. An I hope you can help me. I'm haven't contacted the sellers of these watches yet, this is prelimenary research.

First Exibit A. A PAM00434 Munich boutique edition.
Complete with box and papers. Pictures straight from the internet.

Does it even matter that I post pictures of this? Is there anyway to authenticate this without a watchmaker opening it, or sending it to panerai for a service?



















So, now I'm taking a interest in exibit B, a PAM00112. No box and papers. Pictures straight form the internet.

Now what have i done for my own research. I've looked at a lof of fakes and compared them to pictures of real ones and the pictures of the real PAM00112 I've once owned. The giveaway almost always was the lack of refinement of the movement. No beveld gears, badly fitted swan neck regulator. Only the upper part of the movement decorated (most often crude), but when you look deeper the seconf layer is left undecorated. Only recently on a local yardsale platform a homage popped up (homage because nowhere on the watch the name of panerai or luminor is mentioned). But looking at the calibre trough the glass bottom it looks just as refined as my original, only lacking the name. Maybe the examples I've looked at before where just bad examples.

So how am I going to check the authenticity of a Pam00112?



















With kind regards.


----------



## Stephen2020

Don't bother looking at fakes, google loads of pictures of real ones from genuine sources to compare, look at everything, the movement, crown, dial, hands, strap, buckle, use a loup on the pictures, ask the seller about the power reserve.


----------



## Tenags89

Hi,

im looking to purchase a pam233 with an am/pm dial.
I found this on on the Rolex forums.
is it authentic?



thanks!


----------



## michaelodonnell123

The photos are of an authentic Panerai, but that does not mean that is what they will send you. Pay with a credit card - no bank wires! 
I bought mine from Happy Jewelers: Happy Jewelers | Engagement Rings they only sell watches in excellent condition, with a two year warranty, overnight shipping and they take credit card.


----------



## wwiseman

Edgenumber said:


> Hi, I've got two questions.
> 
> I'm looking a two different watches right now. An I hope you can help me. I'm haven't contacted the sellers of these watches yet, this is prelimenary research.
> 
> First Exibit A. A PAM00434 Munich boutique edition.
> Complete with box and papers. Pictures straight from the internet.
> 
> Does it even matter that I post pictures of this? Is there anyway to authenticate this without a watchmaker opening it, or sending it to panerai for a service?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, now I'm taking a interest in exibit B, a PAM00112. No box and papers. Pictures straight form the internet.
> 
> Now what have i done for my own research. I've looked at a lof of fakes and compared them to pictures of real ones and the pictures of the real PAM00112 I've once owned. The giveaway almost always was the lack of refinement of the movement. No beveld gears, badly fitted swan neck regulator. Only the upper part of the movement decorated (most often crude), but when you look deeper the seconf layer is left undecorated. Only recently on a local yardsale platform a homage popped up (homage because nowhere on the watch the name of panerai or luminor is mentioned). But looking at the calibre trough the glass bottom it looks just as refined as my original, only lacking the name. Maybe the examples I've looked at before where just bad examples.
> 
> So how am I going to check the authenticity of a Pam00112?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With kind regards.


Some tips for due diligence when I buy Panerai: 

*1.* *Know the Seller* *thoroughly*
Research is free. Gather data on them through social media, their line of work, companies house etc. If they're genuine, they are usually transparent.
*2. Know the watch you’re buying thoroughly*
This is where you make comparison of high-res images of authentic models against the one you are looking at. Go over it with a loupe and a fine-tooth comb. If the asking price is surprisingly low, that's also a warning sign. 
*3.* *References*
When buying a genuine watch, there’s a good chance the person you are dealing with has been involved in some form with other watch owners on the forums. It’s always worth asking the question on the forums - if they are a scammer, chances are you aren’t the first recipient!
*4. Study the Replica Watch Forums*
The forums likely discuss, in-depth, about the watch you are looking to buy, and its counterfeit version. There are many reviews on the accuracy of the replica, but close-up, the differences are noticeable. The forum members are just as scrutinous as we are, in their eagerness to have a replica that is 100% identical.


----------



## Edgenumber

I've bought this watch from a big chrono24 seller in Japan. One that has been given good reviews over the years on chrono and on others sites and watchuseek.

Plastic card matches the watch, loose paper lables match the card and the watch. And I've registred it at the pamguard website.

Is this one ligit?

Please give me your thoughts.

With kind regards


----------



## Stephen2020

That does not sound suspicious. But as a mentioned, get some definate genuine pictures of the internet and closely compare every single detail in your pictures, use a loup as well.


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## Edgenumber

Thank you. 

I've taken another picture. The best I can with my phone without opening the watch itself.

From what I think I see, is a ETA logo. But a number that looks like B99(a 6?)01. Where it shoud say 6497 right?


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## Stephen2020

I would not have expected to see that, it might be normal on some movements but I don't have the knowledge on that. Hopefully you can research it or someone here knows?
I really hope it's not bad news.


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## Edgenumber

Well I'm stil googleing.

What I've found out so far. It says B99.501. I've put that together from what I can read with the loupe that came with my speedmaster and the auto fill in from google.
With the loupe I can also clearly see the ETA logo, but can't take pictures of it with my phone.

Further googleing with B99501 / B99.501 and Panerai seems to generate some hits. But none that can explain to me the difference between what watchbase says a PAM00112 should have and what my watchs says. But I know from a watchmaker that watchbase it not always right or complete.


----------



## Swantek

Hi everyone, can anyone tell me about this particular watch? E.g is it real? I cannot find any similar style designs as this on Google images. The face colour and dials are really odd. Also I am reading that radiomir variants do not come in 200m depth...

I noticed one of the dials has fallen off, worth fixing if real?


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## bigclive2011

Wow that’s a corker, Benidorm market supplied.


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## Swantek

bigclive2011 said:


> Wow that’s a corker, Benidorm market supplied.


Haha 😂


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## T1meout

bigclive2011 said:


> Wow that’s a corker, Benidorm market supplied.


Yep, it’s a fugazzi.


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## handwound

Edgenumber said:


> I've bought this watch from a big chrono24 seller in Japan. One that has been given good reviews over the years on chrono and on others sites and watchuseek.
> 
> Plastic card matches the watch, loose paper lables match the card and the watch. And I've registred it at the pamguard website.
> 
> Is this one ligit?
> 
> Please give me your thoughts.
> 
> With kind regards
> 
> View attachment 16364597
> 
> View attachment 16364596


Looks 100% legit to me, friend.

If the stickers and such match, that's a pretty solid indicator as well. No one doing fake papers and stickers to the best of my knowledge.


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## Stephen2020

Horrifyingly I looked on google and it took a few seconds to find a lot of sites selling Panerai box and papers, I don't think any have stickers though and hopefully none will match paper numbers with an actual fake watch. People, please beware!


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## bettenco

Fake or real? 

I've looked through all the internet sites and can't find anything that has been to believe it's fake:

Deep sandwich dial, precise lettering on the case
Smooth crown action
Engraved officine panerai on the movement
Able to register it on Pam guard website
Dial is clear from high angles through the crystal

Anything I'm missing?


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## Stephen2020

Sounds good. 
As I mentioned before, good to use a loup on both when checking out comparison pictures.


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## xinxin

bettenco said:


> Fake or real?
> 
> I've looked through all the internet sites and can't find anything that has been to believe it's fake:
> 
> Deep sandwich dial, precise lettering on the case
> Smooth crown action
> Engraved officine panerai on the movement
> Able to register it on Pam guard website
> Dial is clear from high angles through the crystal
> 
> Anything I'm missing?
> View attachment 16463005
> View attachment 16463006


Can you take clearer pics? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bettenco

xinxin said:


> Can you take clearer pics?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes of course.

Thanks for all your sage guidance.


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## handwound

Looks good to me. I assume no boxes/paperwork?


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## bettenco

Yes that's correct, no box or paperwork. Thanks!


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## DieSkim

Looks like a neat 112 seeing it's 12-13 years old!


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## DieSkim

If you like it, send it for a service and case refinish... Or wear another man's scars


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## bettenco

I don't mind the scars, but was thinking of sending it to Richemont to have them give it a once over and more or less authenticate it for me for free...

Thanks!


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## handwound

bettenco said:


> I don't mind the scars, but was thinking of sending it to Richemont to have them give it a once over and more or less authenticate it for me for free...
> 
> Thanks!


Richemont doesn't do *anything* for free.


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## bettenco

handwound said:


> Richemont doesn't do *anything* for free.


Right but if I send it to them and decline their services, they've actually authenticated it by telling me what work they want to charge me for, which essentially authenticates the watch. 

I've talked to a couple people about trades but they've balked for to the lack of papers.... Which I get


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## handwound

bettenco said:


> Right but if I send it to them and decline their services, they've actually authenticated it by telling me what work they want to charge me for, which essentially authenticates the watch.
> 
> I've talked to a couple people about trades but they've balked for to the lack of papers.... Which I get


Sure, but at that point you've already purchased the watch. No?


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## bettenco

I already bought it. I'm 99% sure it's authentic, just want to have an official piece of paper from Panerai / Richemont as I think I'm going to end up trading it as it's a touch big for me, which is also strange as my 43.5mm planet ocean fits like a glove. Go figure


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## handwound

bettenco said:


> I already bought it. I'm 99% sure it's authentic, just want to have an official piece of paper from Panerai / Richemont as I think I'm going to end up trading it as it's a touch big for me, which is also strange as my 43.5mm planet ocean fits like a glove. Go figure


Ah, in that case sending it in for a service makes sense. You'll get 1 year of warranty, to boot.


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## Stephen2020

Do they charge for a consultation?


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## bettenco

No I did it with a IWC portugisier I had last year. They pay for the shipping both ways also if I remember correctly.


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## Stephen2020

Sounds good. My local watch repairer charge £10 just to look at it, the shop sends it to a service centre, they do general watches, not appointed by a brand.


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## bettenco

The box from Richemont should be here tomorrow. I'll keep the pam's travels updated in this thread.


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## illition

Help me see how this checks out? Potentially purchasing this after I recently sold my 321 (found it too bulky). 

I’m not too concerned about box papers if I’m going to keep it forever but figure I can send it in to Panerai to get a new crystal (has some hairlines) 

PAM177 

No Box No Papers
H Serial
Recent service with reputable local watchmaker



























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## illition

illition said:


> Help me see how this checks out? Potentially purchasing this after I recently sold my 321 (found it too bulky).
> 
> I’m not too concerned about box papers if I’m going to keep it forever but figure I can send it in to Panerai to get a new crystal (has some hairlines)
> 
> PAM177
> 
> No Box No Papers
> H Serial
> Recent service with reputable local watchmaker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Any takers?


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## Snowback

It certainly looks legit to me. I have the same watch & also an "H" serial number. If your watch has been through a service by a reputable watchmaker, it should be fairly safes a buy. Great model that is very light to wear.


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## illition

Snowback said:


> It certainly looks legit to me. I have the same watch & also an "H" serial number. If your watch has been through a service by a reputable watchmaker, it should be fairly safes a buy. Great model that is very light to wear.


That's great to hear! It is without box or papers, but is quite a reasonable deal. I'm thinking of working in the price of a new crystal (i'm estimating $300+?) and a refinish on the titanium to get some papers from Panerai


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## Snowback

Figure more than that. Get a quote from Panerai first and don't forget the cost of shipping. Watch refinishing runs about $120 & shipping was another $30. They will need to open the watch up to replace the crystal so they will need a new crystal, new seals & water tight testing as well. It adds up.


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## illition

Snowback said:


> Figure more than that. Get a quote from Panerai first and don't forget the cost of shipping. Watch refinishing runs about $120 & shipping was another $30. They will need to open the watch up to replace the crystal so they will need a new crystal, new seals & water tight testing as well. It adds up.


Will do! If I do end up getting it will probably meet with the seller at the Panerai Boutique to get some rough numbers added up!


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## illition

Pending a deal in the next 1-2 days. Would really appreciate some help to see how it looks. 
From what I understand, PAM233 has never been made in a replica version, or never had








a good replica anyway. 

PAM233 Dot Dial K Series.


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## illition

Some better photos 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jupe

Anybody have authenticity opinions on this?






Panerai Luminor Base 8 Days Pam PAM 00560 | Ref. PAM 560 Watches on Chrono24


Find low prices for 15 Panerai ref. PAM 00560 watches on Chrono24. Compare deals and buy a ref. PAM 560 watch.




www.chrono24.com






seller has great feedback, just doing due diligence


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## Stephen2020

I retreated from that page due to being attacked by a swarm of popups, but I think the site has a guarantee, not a good place for criminals.


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## DieSkim

illition said:


> Help me see how this checks out? Potentially purchasing this after I recently sold my 321 (found it too bulky).
> 
> I’m not too concerned about box papers if I’m going to keep it forever but figure I can send it in to Panerai to get a new crystal (has some hairlines)
> 
> PAM177
> 
> No Box No Papers
> H Serial
> Recent service with reputable local watchmaker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> [/QUOTE





illition said:


> Any takers?


Movement looks good on your photo


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## Luftgekuhlt

illition said:


> Some better photos
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm also not aware of this model being replicated. 

However I'm not so sure about the 177 you posted previously. The brass / gold wheels look a little off to me and its difficult to to see the polish of the bridge edges in your pictures.

Plus that strap looks cheap!


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## Danielsand

Hallo, kan iemand bevestigen van onderstaande uurwerk of echt is ? Horloge heeft geen papieren wel een aankoop van juwelier ( dit ter controle vd verkoper 😉)
View attachment 16668042


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## Danielsand

Danielsand said:


> Hallo, kan iemand bevestigen van onderstaande uurwerk of dit echt is ? Horloge heeft geen papieren wel een aankoop van juwelier ( dit ter controle vd verkoper 😉)
> View attachment 16668042
> 
> [/CITAAT]


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## raptus

I’m considering this Radiomir from a seller in Japan with many good ratings on Chrono24. No box or papers though. 

Based on my experience with the OP X (I own the 176 with the same movement) I think it looks legit. But would anyone else care to weigh in?


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## Stephen2020

There are too many for sale with box and papers to buy one without, for me, but if you trust the seller and think they were not conned when they bought it, you could choose to go with it? Get pictures of known genuine ones and compare everything using a loup if you've got one.


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## Danielsand




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## Danielsand

Hallo, kan iemand mij bevestigen of het hier om een echte panerai gaat
Pam 005 van 00005 uit 2011 n serie ik dacht OP x ?


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## Danielsand

Can anyone tell me if this movement en panerai is real ?


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## Phrank

Way I checked Panerai that arrived today was to register on the Panerai site and register my watch using the serial number - everything matched up and registered that watch, missed the extended warranty though, dang!


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## lonewitness

Hi Folks - Checking this PAM112


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## phatman

Hi All,

New here, looking at this post from an online dealer, looks legit but wanted to confirm to relieve some anxiety buying something like this via bank wire.

Can you confirm this is real for me?

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=858317


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## Lastlineofdefense

lonewitness said:


> Hi Folks - Checking this PAM112
> View attachment 16783995
> View attachment 16783996


What year is this watch showing, IE "I" , "O" or ?

As this is one of the most "counterfeited" models on the market I would strongly suggest you get boxes and papers (which can also be faked) and a guarantee from the seller. Are you buying from a reputable dealer and having the money put in escrow (like Chrono24)?

The ONLY way to know for sure is to attempt to have it registered with PamGuard. If it won't register its fake - period.

Unless someone else knows better.


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## Lastlineofdefense

phatman said:


> Hi All,
> 
> New here, looking at this post from an online dealer, looks legit but wanted to confirm to relieve some anxiety buying something like this via bank wire.
> 
> Can you confirm this is real for me?
> 
> https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=858317


As the seller is a well known dealer on TRF, it's likely a legit watch. Regardless, I would have a phone/zoom conversation with them prior to wiring any money. Make sure you fully understand the 48 hour return policy.

You do recognize that you can purchase a new 1314 from Panerai for just a few hundred more. You could potentially negotiate a discount off of the list price along with a few extra straps.

Good luck!


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## phatman

Lastlineofdefense said:


> As the seller is a well known dealer on TRF, it's likely a legit watch. Regardless, I would have a phone/zoom conversation with them prior to wiring any money. Make sure you fully understand the 48 hour return policy.
> 
> You do recognize that you can purchase a new 1314 from Panerai for just a few hundred more. You could potentially negotiate a discount off of the list price along with a few extra straps.
> 
> Good luck!



Thank you for the reply, I did negotiate and he is willing to drop it to $7150 shipped and no tax to me - so, there is some good savings there. I will definitely take your advice on the above and run the serial through Pam guard as well.


----------



## phatman

phatman said:


> Hi All,
> 
> New here, looking at this post from an online dealer, looks legit but wanted to confirm to relieve some anxiety buying something like this via bank wire.
> 
> Can you confirm this is real for me?
> 
> https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=858317


Update here, watch is in on 2 day air shipment.

Came with Panerai wood box with snap button lock. Had book, extra green rubber strap, screwdriver, black strap tool, watch id paper work (no name, date, or stamp on it - that an issue??), Panerai black card (date written in on back with marker, issue?), serials on all paperwork the watch and it registered on PAM guard.


















got a 48hr return window supposedly, see anything I should be concerned about?

Thanks in advance!


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## Lastlineofdefense

Looks great! The papers not being filled out are a nonissue, most I've seen second hand are not complete. Having the watch register on PamGuard tells you everything you need to know.

Congratulations!


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## phatman

Lastlineofdefense said:


> Looks great! The papers not being filled out are a nonissue, most I've seen second hand are not complete. Having the watch register on PamGuard tells you everything you need to know.
> 
> Congratulations!


excellent, thank you!


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## Lastlineofdefense

phatman said:


> excellent, thank you!


Welcome to the PAMily! I know...


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## phatman

Lastlineofdefense said:


> Welcome to the PAMily! I know...


Sooooo, a guy on Reddit posting in a lot of replica subs - says this is a replica from TF Factory but he isn't giving me any reason why he thinks that. Would a replica serial register with PAM Gaurd and come with complete with box, tools, books and papers? Has me a little scared now...


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## lonewitness

Lastlineofdefense said:


> What year is this watch showing, IE "I" , "O" or ?
> 
> As this is one of the most "counterfeited" models on the market I would strongly suggest you get boxes and papers (which can also be faked) and a guarantee from the seller. Are you buying from a reputable dealer and having the money put in escrow (like Chrono24)?
> 
> The ONLY way to know for sure is to attempt to have it registered with PamGuard. If it won't register its fake - period.
> 
> Unless someone else knows better.


R series, Have box and papers with all serials matching. Registered on PamGuard as well.


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## Lastlineofdefense

phatman said:


> Sooooo, a guy on Reddit posting in a lot of replica subs - says this is a replica from TF Factory but he isn't giving me any reason why he thinks that. Would a replica serial register with PAM Gaurd and come with complete with box, tools, books and papers? Has me a little scared now...


To the best of my knowledge it would not register, however I am no expert on replicas. Reddit is not a place I would consider having the greatest gathering of the minds on any topic. What's a "TF factory?"


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## phatman

Lastlineofdefense said:


> To the best of my knowledge it would not register, however I am no expert on replicas. Reddit is not a place I would consider having the greatest gathering of the minds on any topic. What's a "TF factory?"


seems to be a replica watch company from what i can see online. my thoughts are the same, i don't think the serial would register if it was a fake on PAM gaurd. he might be affiliated with this site and just commenting on my post to drive traffic to it..._shrug_


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## Lastlineofdefense

Wear it and enjoy it. I don't even see a replica 1314 on that website.


----------



## skymast!

I purchased this recently from Crown and Caliber. No box / papers. This is an E series (2002) 112 so it does not have the sandwich dial. 

The issue I am concerned with is on the case back. If you notice, it has a 300'M' and not the 300'm' that every other Panarai seems to have on both solid and exhibition case back. I sent it back to Crown to check authenticity and they maintain that it is real but they don't have an answer for the non-standard lettering. 

Finally, although it's not illegible for an extended warranty, I was able to register it with PamGuard.

Thank you.


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## Lastlineofdefense

I think you are good to go if it registered. Congrats!


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## Tseg

Lastlineofdefense said:


> Having the watch register on PamGuard tells you everything you need to know.


I'm looking to buy my first Panerai. I see PAM.GUARD is a warranty for 2+6 years (?). If the watch is older than 8 years will the registration kick it out anyway?


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## skymast!

Tseg said:


> I'm looking to buy my first Panerai. I see PAM.GUARD is a warranty for 2+6 years (?). If the watch is older than 8 years will the registration kick it out anyway?


You can register it but no warranty.


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## Lastlineofdefense

What he said 👆 I have watches from the years 2000 and 2002 that I recently purchased that were registered.


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## Phrank

So my new Panerai 422 came in. Had already purchased several straps, including OEM that should go with the 422.

The strap with deplyant clasp that came with the watch I figured was a $50.00 Amazon/eBay special.

Upon looking further, I thinking it is in fact an Panerai Alligator Black Ecru 26.0/22.0 MM Standard MX0086Q1.

Here are some pics, would be fascinating to see, if the dealer who sold it with that strap? Thanks for the bonus....$520 Cad strap before taxes. 

Thinking the strap could be real, but maybe the clasp isn't? Thoughts appreciated and thank-you!


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## calgaryflamesim

Hoping to get an authenticity check. Warranty card says Nov 1 2020 and Pamguard said warranty ends 10/31/2022. QR code on card scanned and had the right serial and it allowed me to extend warranty for 8 years. It’s a Pam00914. All signs point to authentic but would like some comfort from knowledgeable folks. Came with box and papers including the card with QR code which I scanned and it immediately led me to pamguard with serial inputted. Pic 1 Pic 2


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## sangdraax

Bought a used Pam00422 off of chrono24. Came with all the paperwork and looks to have registered correctly on PAM-Guard. All the numbers match the paperwork I have. Just wanted to see if anyone would take a peek and let me know what they think. Sorry for the questionable photography.

Edit: Just adding that all features of the movement work as intended (Small seconds hacks to 0, first click moves hour only, second click standard time setting), and the power reserve gauge on the back also works as intended.


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## Lastlineofdefense

sangdraax said:


> Bought a used Pam00422 off of chrono24. Came with all the paperwork and looks to have registered correctly on PAM-Guard. All the numbers match the paperwork I have. Just wanted to see if anyone would take a peek and let me know what they think. Sorry for the questionable photography.
> 
> Edit: Just adding that all features of the movement work as intended (Small seconds hacks to 0, first click moves hour only, second click standard time setting), and the power reserve gauge on the back also works as intended.
> 
> View attachment 16869569
> View attachment 16869570



Here is a P.3001 movement, there appears to be some major differences. This is taken from paneraicentral.com, and if you compare the 422's currently for sale on Chrono24 they all look exactly like the one I've posted. Any other opinions?


----------



## sangdraax

Looks like a lot like this other one though? Seems like there was a later 3 bridge movement, and this one says it was manufactured in 2018.









Panerai 422, P3001 movement differences


Earlier 2 bridge versus later 3 bridge? Any thoughts? which is better or no differences apart from the bridges?




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## Lastlineofdefense

calgaryflamesim said:


> Hoping to get an authenticity check. Warranty card says Nov 1 2020 and Pamguard said warranty ends 10/31/2022. QR code on card scanned and had the right serial and it allowed me to extend warranty for 8 years. It’s a Pam00914. All signs point to authentic but would like some comfort from knowledgeable folks. Came with box and papers including the card with QR code which I scanned and it immediately led me to pamguard with serial inputted. Pic 1 Pic 2


You should be fine if everything checked with PamGuard and the warranty was extended.


----------



## Lastlineofdefense

sangdraax said:


> Looks like a lot like this other one though? Seems like there was a later 3 bridge movement, and this one says it was manufactured in 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Panerai 422, P3001 movement differences
> 
> 
> Earlier 2 bridge versus later 3 bridge? Any thoughts? which is better or no differences apart from the bridges?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.watchuseek.com


Here is another reference. 

P.3001 - The Panerai Reference Database


----------



## sangdraax

Lastlineofdefense said:


> Here is another reference.
> 
> P.3001 - The Panerai Reference Database



That second one looks pretty dead on, no? Not trying to rationalize, just don't wanna go through the whole "Ship this thing back to Japan" thing unless it really is a fake.


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## Lastlineofdefense

I think it looks very similar. When you state it appears to have registered on PamGuard what are you saying? Did you register it?


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## sangdraax

The serial number went through, right model, all the other numbers, but I'm waiting to get the email back that says they've extended the warranty.


----------



## badpichu

I have to PAM watches one I bought used and does not have the warranty card but everything else, I had the watch authenticated was wondering if I can still register it without having the Original Warranty card? The watch is from 2015 and is it even worth registering? Thank you for any input.


----------



## Lastlineofdefense

badpichu said:


> I have to PAM watches one I bought used and does not have the warranty card but everything else, I had the watch authenticated was wondering if I can still register it without having the Original Warranty card? The watch is from 2015 and is it even worth registering? Thank you for any input.


Yes, you don't need the warranty card to register the watch. And I would register the watch regardless of warranty it will certify it's authentic.


----------



## gorkem

Danielsand said:


> View attachment 16728751
> 
> View attachment 16728752
> 
> View attachment 16728753
> 
> View attachment 16728750
> 
> View attachment 16728749


fake in the first photo swan neck regulator screw do not touch the other end so it is nonfunctional decoration


----------



## burnthesehills

Please delete.


----------



## transporter305

Is there a place to post some pictures of a strap to get an opinion whether it’s authentic or not? Thank you!


----------



## bRI09

Salve a tutti sono nuove ed volevo un informazione su un orologio che o acqustato su ebay volve sapere se fosse vero o un fake ora vi mostro la foto


----------



## transporter305

bRI09 said:


> Salve a tutti sono nuove ed volevo un informazione su un orologio che o acqustato su ebay volve sapere se fosse vero o un fake ora vi mostro la foto
> View attachment 17089248


È MOLTO fake. Spero che tu non l'abbia pagato più di 20€ 😎


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## MEHQWatches

Thoughts on this? Thanks!!


----------



## John-E-Mac

MEHQWatches said:


> Thoughts on this? Thanks!!
> View attachment 17094757
> 
> View attachment 17094755
> View attachment 17094756
> View attachment 17094757
> View attachment 17094754


I suggest you take it to a Panerai dealer and let them look at it for a professional opinion.

For a thoroughly amateur opinion: I do not believe this watch is an authentic Panerai. Sorry.


----------

