# Patek will be dropping their prices.. In USA by 7%



## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

HI all depending on if you are buying, just bought or selling--- this is either good or bad news. Patek is dropping their MSRP by 7% across the board in the USA. I have heard different things about prices in other countries but sounds like the price drop in the USA is real.


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## Drop of a Hat (Dec 16, 2011)

Nice to hear.

"He's just a witness"


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## tigerpac (Feb 3, 2011)

Interesting move with the currency fluctuations going on. I wonder how the collectors feel about this.


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## bombardiro (Nov 3, 2013)

hong kong also had a huge price decrease... puts the 5711 at about $22.3k USD, vs the $26.7k USD msrp i had paid several months ago .... oh boy i want to cry......


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## bmwpower (Oct 4, 2007)

Don't know about the amount, but I heard that a price drop is indeed taking place on instagram, from a credible member of the watch community.


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## bombardiro (Nov 3, 2013)

here's the new HK price list for anyone interested...... 
overall went down about 20% across the board. that seems way too steep to me. probably a 10% drop in HK (combined with the 8% increase in EUR, and probably 3% drop in USA) would've been fine if they were worried about moving inventory and bringing global prices in line with each other...

now i feel like it's way too low that everyone will just buy from HK instead of EUR


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## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

I am quite certain it will be 7% in the USA. I wonder if like airline prices-- others will follow. watch buys.com has decreased their prices on their German brands-- Sinn and Dornbluth etc.


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## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

OH DEAR! How many references does Patek have?? That list almost never ended!


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

mark1958 said:


> I am quite certain it will be 7% in the USA. *I wonder if like airline prices-- others will follow.* watch buys.com has decreased their prices on their German brands-- Sinn and Dornbluth etc.


One can only hope....

All the best.


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## J C (Oct 3, 2014)

Isn't this the complete opposite approach from Rolex? Considering they have the same growth regions, it's interesting...


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## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

For me a mixed blessing..I bought the 5712 during the last quarter of 2014 but I have been wanting the 5990. To purchase i was going to sell my PP5164. Well obviously the price drop will result in a drop in the used market prices and i expect to see a small influx of grey dealers putting their stock for sale very soon. They will try to sell before folks realize the price drop


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## bombardiro (Nov 3, 2013)

all i can say is head over to hong kong and pick one up haha. at those prices, hong kong is the new germany and grey dealers all over the world will likely source from there now.



mark1958 said:


> For me a mixed blessing..I bought the 5712 during the last quarter of 2014 but I have been wanting the 5990. To purchase i was going to sell my PP5164. Well obviously the price drop will result in a drop in the used market prices and i expect to see a small influx of grey dealers putting their stock for sale very soon. They will try to sell before folks realize the price drop


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## hchj (Jul 9, 2011)

Not that I can afford a PP now, but 20% off the list price in HK is phenomenal


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## exxondus (Sep 10, 2007)

My take is pp is trying to capture the chinese mkt during the chinese new year season where most buy watches during this period. Rolexes have been flying off the shelves lately. I think its a wrong move. The rich chinese tend to want exclusitivity. By lowering, they will prob lose the mkt in the long run.


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## Pyroxene (Aug 27, 2012)

Fantastic news.

Let's hope many more watch brands jump on this MSRP-reduction bandwagon.


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## Omjlc (Dec 19, 2011)

This is really interesting news. I'm surprised that this has occurred and would love to know the logic behind it.

Edit - I just read on another forum that prices in Singapore have decreased 15%.


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## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

The CHinese economy is slowing down, they are cracking down on laws allowing lavish gifts (e.g. bribes), and they are decreasing important taxes on import luxury goods.. Put all of that into the equation..


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## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

What makes me wonder is if the margins have been altered...

I mean if MSRP is down 7% but dealer margins are cut 10% then.. I guess when you take additional discounts into consideration, you are paying the same? Unless you go to Tiffany's...

Just a though..


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## bombardiro (Nov 3, 2013)

ken over at TRF confirmed dealer margins are unaltered, AKA dealers are getting a lower price for new inventory as well.

apparently there were two plans they could've carried out: 1. increase prices in EURO regions only by 14% to fix price disparity, or 2. increase euro prices by only 7% but decrease prices of other regions to reach the same equilibrium of prices around the globe. they went for option 2 obviously.

i really dont like this option 2 though... PP claims they're doing this to bring global prices more in line with each other and reduce grey market sales... well, if you leave dealer margins the same, i don't see how that is solving the grey market problem because that'll just mean grey prices will be even lower...........
they should've just brought UP the prices of under-priced regions up to par with the higher priced regions and been done with it.

i truly believe this is a move that will hurt the brand image



AbuKalb93 said:


> What makes me wonder is if the margins have been altered...
> 
> I mean if MSRP is down 7% but dealer margins are cut 10% then.. I guess when you take additional discounts into consideration, you are paying the same? Unless you go to Tiffany's...
> 
> Just a though..


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## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

Pyroxene said:


> Fantastic news.
> 
> Let's hope many more watch brands jump on this MSRP-reduction bandwagon.


i dont think many top brands will. AP just increased MSRP by some 10% in Aisa (but not in China). VC/Breguet, 8% in Apr 2014. Lange, 8% in Aug 2014. PP didnt adjust MSRP last year.

It must have something to do with Patek 2014 annual report. Probably they're struggling in achieving target revenue in Asia with noticeable changes in China.


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## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

mark1958 said:


> The CHinese economy is slowing down, they are cracking down on laws allowing lavish gifts (e.g. bribes), and they are decreasing important taxes on import luxury goods.. Put all of that into the equation..


You have a good point but it is not precisely that way.

Patek would be more than happy to see Chinese buying their products locally. No way they're pulling 20% off in HK just in a bid to enable HK compete with the mainland.

Patek is a manufacture like no others. They have their "unique" problem that is not obvious to the outsiders.


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## tigerpac (Feb 3, 2011)

seanwontreturn said:


> Patek is a manufacture like no others. They have their "unique" problem that is not obvious to the outsiders.


You've giving them way too much credit. They can't beat economics.... only Apple can do that


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## tigerpac (Feb 3, 2011)

http://www.woundforlife.com/2015/02/11/opinion-patek-philippe-price-decrease/

Interesting quick op ed on the subject


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## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

tigerpac said:


> You've giving them way too much credit. They can't beat economics.... only Apple can do that


Dont get me wrong. Making a company successful is for sure a thing economic related. I simply meant the approach Patek is taking right now may be different - I believe Patek has been selling Quartz to make a living but now they have to face the reality and boost mechincals sales.


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## jpohn (Jun 19, 2009)

tigerpac said:


> http://www.woundforlife.com/2015/02/11/opinion-patek-philippe-price-decrease/
> 
> Interesting quick op ed on the subject


Good stuff. Must be way too much inventory. From Wikipedia's definition of a Veblen good:

At the other end of the spectrum, with luxury items priced equal to non-luxury items of lower quality, all else being equal more people would buy the luxury items, even though a few Veblen-seekers would not. Thus, even a Veblen good is subject to the dictum that demand moves conversely to price, although the response of demand to price is not consistent at all points on the demand curve.

Patek is a private company, so they can choose to throttle supply to maintain prices and keep up the long term reputation. Or buy more auction pieces. Lots of levers to pull.


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## Dragonutity (Feb 19, 2013)

I bet they're still making good profit


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## bombardiro (Nov 3, 2013)

the letter is here btw for anyone interested.


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## Shane0mack (Feb 8, 2013)

tigerpac said:


> Opinion: Patek Philippe Price Decrease - Wound For LifeWound For Life
> 
> Interesting quick op ed on the subject


Thanks for posting our article.

Now that I've read the article and see that one of the primary reasons for the decrease was too much idle inventory at ADs, I firmly believe this sends a bad message to collectors of the brand. Obviously there are some real world economics at play, but Patek is essentially saying they priced their products too high (ALL OF THEM!). Is that something an elite watchmaker should be doing? It's not a very strong statement on their products and pricing.

I had the opportunity to talk to a smaller sized Patek AD, and he confirmed Patek was lowering the prices for them as well, meaning, their margins on new Pateks will remain the same. The problem is, their existing stock will lose that 7% in margin, which obviously sucks for them. As for customers who purchased a Patek recently? Many ADs will likely offer a store credit for 7% of the purchase price. For small ADs, that's not a huge deal, but for large ones like Tourneau and Wempe, it's going to cause potentially major issues.


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## OSUMBA2003 (Jan 1, 2012)

Great. Now if I can get a 700% raise at work, I can get one.


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## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

The letter above is proving a point that Patek is trying to protect revenue from local sales. The reason why other top brands chose to increase Euro MSRP but not to decrease America/Asia one , is probably because they cannot afford PP kind of margin erosion.

I think out of all top brands, AP will suffer the most as they just increase 10% in Asia (so called an overpriced market) on Jan 1, 2015. It'd be difficult for them to revoke that decision...


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## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

Wow, some really good stuff here. NO WHERE in the letter do i see anything about the possibility that a retailer could request a refund on recently purchased product??? Maybe Patek will give them the difference in future purchase credit

Most dealers would still be happy if they can sell their product even at 7% less profit. Some retailers that offer a "deal" will just have less of a deal to offer on pre-existing stock.


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## maikeru (Sep 5, 2014)

I dropped by Patek boutique in Singapore today. I asked how much the new price list for 5711 blue dial. I was quoted SGD 31,900 (old price SGD 37,600). Now that's crazy.

1 USD is roughly equivalent to 1.35 SGD


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## tdk (Oct 21, 2008)

maikeru said:


> I dropped by Patek boutique in Singapore today. I asked how much the new price list for 5711 blue dial. I was quoted SGD 31,900 (old price SGD 37,600). Now that's crazy.
> 
> 1 USD is roughly equivalent to 1.35 SGD


Yeah, but ask them how long it will take to deliver the watch.


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## maikeru (Sep 5, 2014)

tdk said:


> Yeah, but ask them how long it will take to deliver the watch.


It is sure gonna be long. Unless you are their repeat customer


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## TimelessFan (Aug 19, 2013)

I'll never buy another Patek after this. 

Hello Journe. Hello A Lange.


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## Dancing Fire (Aug 16, 2011)

I wouldn't count on China in the next few yrs, b/c they are cracking down on corruption. The corrupted officials are being hunted down in the past 2 yrs and many of them are hiding under their beds. I have been telling my Chinese friends for many years that China's economy is highly depended on the flow of corrupted money. Ever since the slower flow of corrupted money in China the prices of luxury goods like high end real estate, cars, watches, jewelry, booze, etc, etc have headed south. The casinos business in Macau have slow down tremendously. Heck, even my favorite bottle of booze is cheaper by about 30% from two years ago...:-!


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## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

TimelessFan said:


> I'll never buy another Patek after this.
> 
> Hello Journe. Hello A Lange.


You should not have bought a Patek to start with! Journe all the way and if there is one brand I can't flaw its Lange. You are heading on the right direction


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## iim7v7im7 (Dec 19, 2008)

I suggest picking this topic up again post-Baselworld. You will begin to see some of the fall out by then.


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## Crunchy (Feb 4, 2013)

Well everything is cheaper now because of the chinese economy bust. Time to load up on the perpetual calendars!


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## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

TimelessFan said:


> I'll never buy another Patek after this.
> 
> Hello Journe. Hello A Lange.


Tell us the story that upset u to delight us, would ya?


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## G'ed (May 30, 2008)

This move send wrong message to certain group of collectors/admirers of the brand or at least to myself. By reducing the price of it's product, existing owners will take a (big) hit in their collection's net worth. For potential buyer, a sense of insecurity of what's coming up next, in term of watch's value ...

Previous rule of thumb, brands that hold value best are Patek and Rolex. Now it doesn't seem like it anymore.


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## tigerpac (Feb 3, 2011)

Just another reinforcement of the notion, don't buy a watch as an investment


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## shartouh (Oct 9, 2013)

Ok good think in future to choice another independet Brand to buy from it like Roger dubuis or Gruebel forsey Philippe Dafour.....ect.


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## 2muchtimeonmyhands (May 4, 2014)

Price can't be the only factor that's creating surplus inventory. In my opinion Patek are straying from their aesthetic DNA and the brand proposition of timeless elegance. They seem to be over-emphasizing historic designs in their grand complications without staying relevant. I am guessing this is a reactionary attempt to differentiate themselves from Lange and Richard Mille or other independents in that price bracket. That might explain the Baroque 175th offerings, somebody needs to inform their design department that both Mary Antoinette and Liberace are no longer with us 
They already have the Nautilus as their steel sports offering, why introduce the 5960/1A? The cynical part of me thinks someone saw the auction demand for vintage steel models, threw some ideas in a hat and voila!
They could probably do with a few less diamond encrusted bezels as well. 
I am sure this reduction is not the doom that some are saying but I just hope its a design wake up call.


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## iim7v7im7 (Dec 19, 2008)

PP is running a global business in markets with currency fluctuations. They are attempting to minimize their risk to their regional businesses from cross importation of product from one region to another and also their gray market risk.

Take a look at currency exchanges in 10 Feb 2014 vs. Today's rates. Then look at PP's regional price changes by percentage. Now add the unknown arbitrage risk from now until Feb 2016 and try to set prices by region.

Swiss Franc vs. US Dollar = $1.07 now, a year ago $1.12 (decrease by 7%)
Swiss Franc vs. Euro = 0.94 now, a year ago 0.82 (increase by 7%)
Swiss Franc vs. British Pound = 0.70 now, a year ago 0.68 (no change)
Swiss Franc vs. Chinese Yuan = 6.69 now, a year ago 6.76 (decrease by 3%) 
Swiss Franc vs. Hong Kong Dollar = 8.28 now, a year ago 8.65 (decrease by 7%)
Swiss Franc vs. Japanese Yen = 127 now, a year ago 114 (increase by 5%)

I don't blame PP one bit for doing what they did.


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## maikeru (Sep 5, 2014)

I want to share with you guys my experience with a Patek authorized dealer in Jakarta, Indonesia (there is only one Patek AD, run by Singapore based AD. They have no boutique here). 

So I went in with 1 of my friend and randomly asked for 5167/A in rubber. She said that it was out of stock, but she had a blue dial 5711. We asked her how much was the price (I have done my research in Singapore. 1 Patek boutique and my regular AD quoted me S$31,900, the previous list price was $37,600). She answered S$40,000. That was S$8,100 above RRP. I know the demand of it is very high but S$8,100 above retail IMHO is a day light robbery. 

Then I mentioned to her regarding the recent price drop in the Asia pacific region. She took out the price list and after several conversations and "story-telling" she brought down her price to become S$36k-ish. She even said that the dealer was still using the old price list even though they were aware of the recent price drop. After that, we asked for her name card and left the dealer.

I am a bit confused now. Even after the release of Mr. Stern letter, this dealer still does not follow the official pricing guide. I have never owned a Patek and never have any experience buying one. Am I missing something here?


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## luxlex (Apr 20, 2012)

Its time to visit the Patek boutique!


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## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

maikeru said:


> I want to share with you guys my experience with a Patek authorized dealer in Jakarta, Indonesia (there is only one Patek AD, run by Singapore based AD. They have no boutique here).
> 
> So I went in with 1 of my friend and randomly asked for 5167/A in rubber. She said that it was out of stock, but she had a blue dial 5711. We asked her how much was the price (I have done my research in Singapore. 1 Patek boutique and my regular AD quoted me S$31,900, the previous list price was $37,600). She answered S$40,000. That was S$8,100 above RRP. I know the demand of it is very high but S$8,100 above retail IMHO is a day light robbery.
> 
> ...


If you send Patek a letter regarding that, the dealer will most likely get a "call" the next morning. That is, if Patek cares as much as FPJ and Rolex do with regard to their ADs


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## maikeru (Sep 5, 2014)

AbuKalb93 said:


> If you send Patek a letter regarding that, the dealer will most likely get a "call" the next morning. That is, if Patek cares as much as FPJ and Rolex do with regard to their ADs


AbuKalb93, Thanks for confirming. I was thinking of writing an email to Patek too. I will send them an email later.


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## BillA (Mar 17, 2007)

Well I called an AD in NJ today about buying a 5167a, and he told me right upfront about the 7% decrease in price in the US, however, he said that PP gave no credit or concession to the AD, meaning he bought at the older price. He told me the price went from $20,300 to $18,900 and offered me a discount because of my relationship with his store. I think it best for me to pass on the unit he has in stock and wait for the next one that comes in because he will buy at a lower price point.


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## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

BillA said:


> Well I called an AD in NJ today about buying a 5167a, and he told me right upfront about the 7% decrease in price in the US, however, he said that PP gave no credit or concession to the AD, meaning he bought at the older price. He told me the price went from $20,300 to $18,900 and offered me a discount because of my relationship with his store. I think it best for me to pass on the unit he has in stock and wait for the next one that comes in because he will buy at a lower price point.


The logic is completely wrong. AD's margin erosion on this particular piece already happened. Doesn't matter who he is selling to. Fine, u r an established customer and sure some "less established" one probably will take it for a higher price. But the revenue and gross margin are exactly the same, if you see the 2 transaction (yours and the next customer's) as a package.


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## mr.williamdmw (Feb 13, 2015)

Does anybody know how much is the 5711 or 5712 in steel and gold price in Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia? Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TimelessFan (Aug 19, 2013)

seanwontreturn said:


> Tell us the story that upset u to delight us, would ya?


Hey!



seanwontreturn said:


> This may be offensive to quite a few here, but I talk watch i dont care whose feeling i am hurting: Those who are buying watch(es) with thoughts or intentions of selling them one day and are concerned about the loss out of it, kind of are not good enough for it.


_
Content removed my Admin due to rule 2 violation._


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## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

.........


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## fleekk (Feb 12, 2014)

maikeru said:


> I want to share with you guys my experience with a Patek authorized dealer in Jakarta, Indonesia (there is only one Patek AD, run by Singapore based AD. They have no boutique here).
> 
> So I went in with 1 of my friend and randomly asked for 5167/A in rubber. She said that it was out of stock, but she had a blue dial 5711. We asked her how much was the price (I have done my research in Singapore. 1 Patek boutique and my regular AD quoted me S$31,900, the previous list price was $37,600). She answered S$40,000. That was S$8,100 above RRP. I know the demand of it is very high but S$8,100 above retail IMHO is a day light robbery.
> 
> ...


Can someone enlighten me why the drastic drop in the list price from $37,600 to $31,900 for a 5711 in Singapore but it stated the price reduction of 3% for Asia by Patek?


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## GETS (Dec 8, 2011)

UK Prices dropped by 10% this week too.


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## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

Well the Swiss Franc was re-adjusted after the decision to make the 7% USA drop--- will be interesting to see what happens in June.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

fleekk said:


> Can someone enlighten me why the drastic drop in the list price from $37,600 to $31,900 for a 5711 in Singapore but it stated the price reduction of 3% for Asia by Patek?


A price reduction (or increase) that transcends a mere currency adjustment is best and most plausibly explained by the concept of supply and demand and how the seller/maker sees their ware(s) in the market in which the price change occurs. If you want to know what specific elements of the supply or demand side of the picture motivated Patek Philippe to effect the change you've seen, you'd need to ask them.

Here are some publicly available discussions on the matter of PP's price changes and in them you may find some folks offering their opinions on the matter:
- Patek Philippe ReducesÂ.Prices in Americas,Â.Raises Prices in Europe - Bloomberg Business
- Opinion: Patek Philippe Price Decrease - Wound For LifeWound For Life
- TimeZone : Patek Philippe Â» World Wide Price Drop for PP hurts

Here you'll find Patek's (Thierrey Stern's) letter to PP's selling partners: http://www.ticktocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/20150210095248395.pdf . I'm sure there's some "corporate speak" in there that casts the matter in the most positive or neutral light possible, but one carefully reading it might yet glean more than is what is stated literally.

All the best.


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## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

Tony--- Do you think they would provide me with the answer--- an honest answer? 



tony20009 said:


> If you want to know what specific elements of the supply or demand side of the picture motivated Patek Philippe to effect the change you've seen, you'd need to ask them.
> 
> All the best.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

mark1958 said:


> Tony--- Do you think they would provide me with the answer--- an honest answer?


I think they'll give you an answer. I don't think they'll outright lie. I know that whatever they say, you'll have little means of confirming whether it's the "whole story," and in that light, the best you can do is assess whether it jibes with what makes sense to you given your understanding of business, economics, human nature, and watches.

I also know you have nothing to lose by asking. So whatever they say in response to you will be information you didn't have before, even if it's just "flavor" that doesn't directly answer the question you asked. It's up to you to fairly and intelligently make what you will of what they say.

All the best.


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## Crunchy (Feb 4, 2013)

Markets are slowing down. That's the real honest answer. That is why they had to reduce price. If it was only due to exchange rate differences, they could have just raised the euro prices one way and no real need to reduce US prices. In fact Patek have been reducing msrp pricing in singapore very subtly since 2013, especially on high end chronos and perpetual chronos.


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## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

Looks like their prices are going back up again--- at least in Hong Kong.. 7% July 1


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## lxxrr (Jul 25, 2013)

Crunchy said:


> Markets are slowing down. That's the real honest answer. That is why they had to reduce price. If it was only due to exchange rate differences, they could have just raised the euro prices one way and no real need to reduce US prices. In fact Patek have been reducing msrp pricing in singapore very subtly since 2013, especially on high end chronos and perpetual chronos.


The story is that Patek decreased prices in Swizzerland 5%, Hong Kong 7%, Asia-Pacific %3 but plan on increasing prices in Japan 5% and other Euro countries 7%. This was done to avoid hitting Euro countries with a 12-14% price increase. Omega and Rolex are expected to move forward with price increases later this year. Personally, I think we're seeing all time high interest in luxury watches.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

lxxrr said:


> The story is that Patek decreased prices in Swizzerland 5%, Hong Kong 7%, Asia-Pacific %3 but plan on increasing prices in Japan 5% and other Euro countries 7%. This was done to avoid hitting Euro countries with a 12-14% price increase. Omega and Rolex are expected to move forward with price increases later this year. Personally, I think we're seeing all time high interest in luxury watches.


 The .1% are buying them by the '6 pack'.


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## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

Hmm. I don't think this is good news, as I have been wanting to sell my Patek for a while now.
I suppose it was bound to happen.
The prices on those new Pateks like 5227G were totally ridiculous.
I do wonder about the long-term future of these high-end brands.
I suppose Patek and Lange and a few others will be fine though.


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## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

I heard USA prices will not change


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