# Real Hamilton Khaki Automatic or replica/fake ?



## robbiea

Hi all, I am new to the world of Hamilton this would be my first real watch that is if it is in fact a real Hamilton. Any and all thoughts welcome 
Cheers 
Rob


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## tobytobes

looks real. very unlikely anyone would make such a high quality fake of an inexpensive watch. it's real I'm sure. 


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## Watchfreek

Definitely not an original strap. Inscriptions on rotor are way different to mine (but could be due to a different vintage). Movement, particularly the area around the balance and mainspring is totally different. Not even sure it's a 2824-2. There's been a few threads discussing these 42mm khaki field autos with tire tread silicon straps on eBay.....sorry you've been conned into this....


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## Watchfreek

There was one case where the buyer did get a refund. Good luck!

Why did you suspect it's a fake anyway.....?


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## tobytobes

how much did u pay for it. because these second hand and real are only around 200 dollars max. it seems incredible that a one of the Chinese factories would commish a run of these to this quality. 


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## Watchfreek

Why does it have to be Chinese in particular may i ask?.....


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## Vlance

Watch looks fake to me. Didn't know they were making fake hammy's now.
The dotted lume looks sloppy, the rotor looks terrible, the movement I do not recognize at all, the strap is off, and the buckle looks cheap. 
The only thing that looks not bad is the case and caseback.


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## Vlance

Gen swiss movement I would expect to see in a hamilton:


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## Watchfreek

What a real 2824-2 looks like and the text in the back.....


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## Watchfreek

Judging from the lack of response while he's been online, guess he was trying to test whether people could spot a fake (he has for sale)?


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## robbiea

Thanks for the quick replies, I have not bought the watch as of yet but have been bidding. I was looking over the seller history and he/she looks to have sold the same watch (same photos) three times or so. 
All the other watches on offer look vintage and legit.
Also has 100% feed back over a couple of years.
I also have discovered a second watch looks identical that just came up as located in Zurich with the aucton time finishing just two hours after the one I have been bidding on. All very strange. here are some photos of the watch in zurich


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## robbiea

Looks like I might be best to contact ebay and get out of this auction.


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## Vlance

I would stay well away from them. Retract your bid.


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## robbiea

Have not bought the watch yet but have been bidding on ebay. Just tying to track down the other threads watchfreek mentioned.


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## robbiea

Yes I will defiantly be retracting thanks so much for saving me from making a pricy mistake.
Rob


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## Watchfreek

Here's one, I'm baffled as to why they're using the same strap all the time. Perhaps the assumption is those who'll fall for the ads will be the ones who cannot spot the problem with the strap...

https://www.watchuseek.com/f357/jus...-auto-must-have-been-decent-deal-1039690.html

N.B. The listing has been revived many times and is still available....


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## robbiea

I only got concerned when I saw one posted in Zurich and then when I saw that the seller had sold the same watch 4 times. But thanks again am chatting with Ebay at the moment to get out of my bid.


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## Vlance

Watchfreek said:


> Here's one, I'm baffled as to why they're using the same strap all the time. Perhaps the assumption is those who'll fall for the ads will be the ones who cannot spot the problem with the strap...
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f357/jus...-auto-must-have-been-decent-deal-1039690.html
> 
> N.B. The listing has been revived many times and is still available....


Lol ... that video of the second hand... So ridiculous


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## Watchfreek

Good luck Rob. Amazing and scarey how the same scams could be replicated for so long.... Thing is, it may not be a fake in the sense it was made in bulk for sale but rather old cases and maybe dials refitted with old or dodgey movements and other parts (like the straps) and sold as new.....there's many ways to scam...like fake watches don't need to always be Chinese. The Thai's make pretty good fakes too...


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## robbiea

Cheers again for all your help on this. I have Cancelled my bid and thank to you all I have saved £200 and am not stuck with a potential fake Hamilton.


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## xezo

crap, in that case we have just aided a criminal!


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## moonraker

I have purchased one of these hamilton so with the rubber strap off e bay, are they definitely fakes? Had crossed my mind since that there seems to be a lot on rubber straps rathe than leather? Got it a couple of months ago wondering if it is worth contacting e bay?

jeff


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## watch-newbie

moonraker said:


> I have purchased one of these hamilton so with the rubber strap off e bay, are they definitely fakes? Had crossed my mind since that there seems to be a lot on rubber straps rathe than leather? Got it a couple of months ago wondering if it is worth contacting e bay?
> 
> jeff


I'd start with posting detailed photos of the back, the dial, and the crown. Google image search the model number, you should be able to see some detailed photos of what that model is supposed to look like vs the watch you have.


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## jfk75219

Hi, 

I was looking for information on some suspect 42mm's, and luckily this forum popped up. I have seen several on eBay, but the blue dial stood out to me. Did Hamilton ever make a blue dial 42mm? I have reached out to all sellers for the complete model number, but no one can provide it (no hangtag, no box or papers). 95% sure it is a fake, especially due to the crappy band and buckle. Thoughts?

Thanks,

JFK


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## watch-newbie

No idea really. The model number is easy to read on the back of my hammy. Every hamilton that I google has the model number on the back like this one:









It's been said 'why would they counterfeit a $500 watch'? Read the thread in the tisot forum about the fakes. They're faking everything. Last week I became aware of the frogman chrono, particularly the frogman chrono with the silver toned dial. I googled around for it high and low, and couldn't find one. I did come across a website that sells nothing but fairly convincing hamilton fakes. They don't hold up to scrutiny but if someone was like me just starting out but not doing the due diligence it would be easy to get burned.

So yes they are faking hamiltons.

If it's too good to be true it probably is, walk away. Shop for the seller. If the seller won't post detailed closeups of the dial and caseback, walk away. If the seller won't tell you the model number, walk away. Discretion is the better part of valour. With modern watches like these it won't take long for the next model just like the one from the shady seller only from a good seller comes along.


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## moonraker

watch-newbie said:


> No idea really. The model number is easy to read on the back of my hammy. Every hamilton that I google has the model number on the back like this one:
> 
> View attachment 4036498
> 
> 
> It's been said 'why would they counterfeit a $500 watch'? Read the thread in the tisot forum about the fakes. They're faking everything. Last week I became aware of the frogman chrono, particularly the frogman chrono with the silver toned dial. I googled around for it high and low, and couldn't find one. I did come across a website that sells nothing but fairly convincing hamilton fakes. They don't hold up to scrutiny but if someone was like me just starting out but not doing the due diligence it would be easy to get burned.
> 
> So yes they are faking hamiltons.
> 
> If it's too good to be true it probably is, walk away. Shop for the seller. If the seller won't post detailed closeups of the dial and caseback, walk away. If the seller won't tell you the model number, walk away. Discretion is the better part of valour. With modern watches like these it won't take long for the next model just like the one from the shady seller only from a good seller comes along.


To be be honest, since I bought the watch I have noticed how many similar looking ones are on e bay, including the blue faced version. I've e mailed my seller to explain my concerns, waiting for a reply !!


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## jeacock

The seller *golden.watches *has a couple of these fakes. One purple faced(!??) (Ebay Item #191581813339).
Buyers beware.
FYI, you can buy the real thing right now from Jomashop for $343 (use discount code WLCM20 to get $20 off current sale price).


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## moonraker

jeacock said:


> The seller *golden.watches *has a couple of these fakes. One purple faced(!??) (Ebay Item #191581813339).
> Buyers beware.
> FYI, you can buy the real thing right now from Jomashop for $343 (use discount code WLCM20 to get $20 off current sale price).


Ive vey sent my watch and asked for a refund !! I'm going to buy one from an authorised dealer :roll::rodekaart

Jeff


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## jeacock

moonraker said:


> Ive vey sent my watch and asked for a refund !! I'm going to buy one from an authorised dealer :roll::rodekaart
> 
> Jeff


At the very least, go through a reputable grey market dealer or speak (email) any potential sellers until you are sure they are legit. I have bought used watches with good results, but I always ask questions. Don't worry about offending a seller, just be polite and a legit seller will understand and work with you. Educate yourself on the watch U seek and don't jump on a too good to be true deal, no matter how tempting (unless the potential loss is acceptable to you. I wouldn't risk more than about $20, but I'm poor).

Good luck!


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## BrentYYC

Hamilton uses Elabore grade 2824-2 movements that are upgraded to Incabloc shock protection just like Top grade and Chronometer grade. If the movement doesn't have Incabloc (the OP's original pic didn't) , then it's a fake. All the real pics posted later in this thread have Incabloc. That's the easiest litmus test.

The pic shows what to look for in a genuine Hamilton 2824-2 movement with the Incabloc upgrade (2 points of spring contact). If the spring has three points of contact (Etachoc style like in the OP post) it's a fake. Etachoc shock protection is what the non-upgraded Elabore movements normally have, so if you have a non-upgraded 2824-2 in a Hamilton then the watch is fake and probably has a Chinese knock-off movement.


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## cprrckwlf

BrentYYC said:


> Hamilton uses Elabore grade 2824 movements that are upgraded to Incabloc shock protection, just like Top grade and Chronometer grade. If the movement doesn't have Incabloc (the OP's original pic didn't) , then it's a fake. All the real pics posted later in this thread have Incabloc. That's the easiest litmus test.


He means the tiny little violin shaped gold piece. ;-)

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## BrentYYC

cprrckwlf said:


> He means the tiny little violin shaped gold piece. ;-)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOL... Exactly! I just added a pic to my post


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## moonraker

BrentYYC said:


> Hamilton uses Elabore grade 2824-2 movements that are upgraded to Incabloc shock protection just like Top grade and Chronometer grade. If the movement doesn't have Incabloc (the OP's original pic didn't) , then it's a fake. All the real pics posted later in this thread have Incabloc. That's the easiest litmus test.
> 
> The pic shows what to look for in a genuine Hamilton 2824-2 movement with the Incabloc upgrade. If the spring has three points of contact (Etachoc style like in the OP post) which is what the non-upgraded Elabore grade normally has, then the watch is fake and probably has a fake Chinese ETA knock-off movement.
> 
> View attachment 4083985


Thanks folks, got a full refund today!!
it was the pics of the movement that gave it away, particularly the lack of the 3 point spring. To be fair the watch felt solid and was accurate, however, after wearing it all day the power reserve only lasted about 12 hours. Plan to buy the real Thing via an authorised dealer.


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## BrentYYC

moonraker said:


> Thanks folks, got a full refund today!!
> it was the pics of the movement that gave it away, particularly the lack of the 3 point spring. To be fair the watch felt solid and was accurate, however, after wearing it all day the power reserve only lasted about 12 hours. Plan to buy the real Thing via an authorised dealer.


Not sure if you misunderstood my post, but if it has a 3 point spring it's a fake. If it has Incabloc, as shown in the pic I posted, then it's real. You said it lacked the 3 point spring that the fakes have.


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## jeacock

BrentYYC said:


> Not sure if you misunderstood my post, but if it has a 3 point spring it's a fake. If it has Incabloc, as shown in the pic I posted, then it's real. You said it lacked the 3 point spring that the fakes have.


I don't jack about about part names/functions, but this piece was the giveaway for me.

This is the real 2824-2 piece:









Compared to the fake:









Even a noob like me can spot the difference.


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## moonraker

jeacock said:


> I don't jack about about part names/functions, but this piece was the giveaway for me.
> 
> This is the real 2824-2 piece:
> 
> View attachment 4086145
> 
> 
> Compared to the fake:
> 
> View attachment 4086185
> 
> 
> Even a noob like me can spot the difference.


My my watch didn't have the fork shaped piece with the plus and minus on, so that was what prompted me to ask for my money back. Seller didn't argue but said watches were genuine !!!!


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## cprrckwlf

moonraker said:


> My my watch didn't have the fork shaped piece with the plus and minus on, so that was what prompted me to ask for my money back. Seller didn't argue but said watches were genuine !!!!


Not all of the newer models have the "fork" but the shock protection which has to do with the gold piece/spring mount for the gem and mechanism is pretty distinctive. The incabloc on the watches in this thread is what I called a violin shape. Newer movements have variations. Check the close up of the h-21 (no fork, distinct gold piece) at hamilton's official edu site here: http://new.hamilton-uni.com/en/hamiltonCalibers

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## jeacock

cprrckwlf said:


> Not all of the newer models have the "fork" but the shock protection which has to do with the gold piece/spring mount for the gem and mechanism is pretty distinctive. The incabloc on the watches in this thread is what I called a violin shape. Newer movements have variations. Check the close up of the h-21 (no fork, distinct gold piece) at hamilton's official edu site here: Hamilton Calibers | Hamilton University
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We were talking about the ETA 2824-2 which is found in the Khaki Field auto. Not the h-21 that a quick google tells me is based on the ETA Valjoux 7750. What am I misunderstanding? Honestly not trying to be a jerk, just trying to learn.


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## BrentYYC

To make it clear, here's what to look for if your Hamilton has a 2824-2 movement.

The picture on the top is what you'll see in a fake. It's the Etachoc shock protection system that is found in Standard and Elabore grade 2824-2 movements. Hamilton, however, upgrades the Elabore grade movements they use to Incabloc shock protection (the picture on the bottom), which is the same as that used in the Top grade and Chronometer grade 2824-2 movements). The fakes don't use the upgraded shock protection, so if you ever see a Hamilton with Etachoc shock protection, it's a Chinese clone movement in a fake watch.

Most entry level manufacturers won't upgrade the movement, so you will usually see Etachoc in them if they are using Standard or Elabore grade 2824-2 movements, but you will always see the Incabloc upgrade in a Hamilton.

ETACHOC 
Found in Standard & Elabore Grade 2824-2 movements









INCABLOC 
Found in Top & Chronometer grade 2824-2 movements and *all Hamiltons*


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## jeacock

Good info. Thanks.


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## cprrckwlf

jeacock said:


> We were talking about the ETA 2824-2 which is found in the Khaki Field auto.  Not the h-21 that a quick google tells me is based on the ETA Valjoux 7750. What am I misunderstanding? Honestly not trying to be a jerk, just trying to learn.


Sorry, I was trying to point out to moonraker that he was right, but for (what brent was pointing out) the wrong reasons. Some of the movements do not have a "fork" by design but will still have a shock that is (or is close to) the inca bloc. I.e., it is the shock you want to focus on, not the fork.

I did mean to include in that post a note that both your analysis and his were correct. This is (invariably) what happens when I respond from my phone, instead of waiting until I get to a screen where I can really look at things.

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## PSUAth

My hammy doesnt have pinted letters on the rotor and the wr is listed as bar not feet. But different movement


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## moonraker

PSUAth said:


> My hammy doesnt have pinted letters on the rotor and the wr is listed as bar not feet. But different movement


So, are we saying the version without the fork is a fake or just a different style? My watch was the version in the second picture on page 4, ie without the fork:-s


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## Watchfreek

moonraker said:


> So, are we saying the version without the fork is a fake or just a different style? My watch was the version in the second picture on page 4, ie without the fork:-s


.....and without an incabloc, tire tread rubber strap and rotor with gold script...? Just be very very grateful you'll get a refund (or did he just say he'd give you one?). If you got your money, don't look back.


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## heb

Another indication of a fake may be the balance wheel. I've never seen a metallic one that wasn't gold plated. The one shown here is a grayish color; I guess it could be silicon but highly unlikely in a watch of this ilk.

heb


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## moonraker

Watchfreek said:


> .....and without an incabloc, tire tread rubber strap and rotor with gold script...? Just be very very grateful you'll get a refund (or did he just say he'd give you one?). If you got your money, don't look back.


 Yes got the refund thank god!! Will be sticking to proper dealers from now on !!


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## cprrckwlf

moonraker said:


> So, are we saying the version without the fork is a fake or just a different style? My watch was the version in the second picture on page 4, ie without the fork:-s


Man, I've managed to confuse this!

Yours (without the fork) was almost certainly fake. But, because not all Hamilton's have forks, using the shock as a "tell" is a bit more reliable.

Some modern Hamiltons don't have "forks"
but
NO modern Hamiltons have the shock that yours jeacock's had

Clear as I think I can make it, I shall now exit this thread before I further cloud the issue ;-)


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## moonraker

cprrckwlf said:


> Man, I've managed to confuse this!
> 
> Yours (without the fork) was almost certainly fake. But, because not all Hamilton's have forks, using the shock as a "tell" is a bit more reliable.
> 
> Some modern Hamiltons don't have "forks"
> but
> NO modern Hamiltons have the shock that yours jeacock's had
> 
> Clear as I think I can make it, I shall now exit this thread before I further cloud the issue ;-)


Yep, pm that's clear !!:roll:


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## BrentYYC

cprrckwlf said:


> ...using the shock as a "tell" is a bit more reliable.


^ This ^

Refer to my previous post HERE and you'll always be able to spot a fake Hamilton with 2824-2 movement.


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## moonraker

BrentYYC said:


> ^ This ^
> 
> Refer to my previous post HERE and you'll always be able to spot a fake Hamilton with 2824-2 movement.


Dont worry, I'm taking that post with me when I buy my replacement for the fake


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## watch-newbie

BrentYYC said:


> To make it clear, here's what to look for if your Hamilton has a 2824-2 movement.
> 
> The picture on the top is what you'll see in a fake. It's the Etachoc shock protection system that is found in Standard and Elabore grade 2824-2 movements. Hamilton, however, upgrades the Elabore grade movements they use to Incabloc shock protection (the picture on the bottom), which is the same as that used in the Top grade and Chronometer grade 2824-2 movements). The fakes don't use the upgraded shock protection, so if you ever see a Hamilton with Etachoc shock protection, it's a Chinese clone movement in a fake watch.
> 
> Most entry level manufacturers won't upgrade the movement, so you will usually see Etachoc in them if they are using Standard or Elabore grade 2824-2 movements, but you will always see the Incabloc upgrade in a Hamilton.
> 
> ETACHOC
> Found in Standard & Elabore Grade 2824-2 movements
> 
> View attachment 4089497
> 
> 
> INCABLOC
> Found in Top & Chronometer grade 2824-2 movements and *all Hamiltons*
> 
> View attachment 4089505


Great series of posts brent. Thanks.



moonraker said:


> Yes got the refund thank god!! Will be sticking to proper dealers from now on !!


I think maybe instead of writing off grey dealers completely a bit more due diligence might be in order instead? I've bought two watches from discount watch store (my daily driver casio and my hamilton khaki that I love) and I have no complaints on either.

Peace of mind might be priceless but with the right amount of due diligence you can find it with a grey market purchase. Feedback ratings read carefully can tell an interesting tale. Reverse image searches and searching completed listings on ebay do as well. Shop for the seller not the item. If you can't find the right seller selling the right item then either move on or wait until you find the right combo...


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## authalic

Several of the images of Hamilton calibers on the Hamilton University site appear to show ETA-based movements with the Etachoc shock protection system, including this one, of the H-12 movement, which is identical to the 2824-2 movement in the Khaki Field Auto that I picked up earlier in the year.










I'm not sure if the absence of Incabloc shock protection is an entirely foolproof test of authenticity.


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## tinknocker

authalic said:


> Several of the images of Hamilton calibers on the Hamilton University site appear to show ETA-based movements with the Etachoc shock protection system, including this one, of the H-12 movement, which is identical to the 2824-2 movement in the Khaki Field Auto that I picked up earlier in the year.
> 
> 
> View attachment 4179218
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if the absence of Incabloc shock protection is an entirely foolproof test of authenticity.


Well the H-12 is a regulator movement that ETA and Hamilton made that's not in the Field models. So, if your looking at a 2824, it is a good way to see if it's authentic.


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## tenthousanddays

Based on this thread, I reached out to Hamilton customer service regarding my Field Khaki (H704450) which was recently purchased through an authorized retailer. This watch contains the Etachoc shock protection system.

Here is the response:
We would like to inform you that the ETA 2824-2 movement in your watch has the grade Elaboré. Concerning your second question, kindly note that we have used both versions of the ETA 2824-2 movements with different shock protection for this watch. Please find below a picture of the ?NivchocS? and the ?Incabloc? for your easy reference. [Email included a picture for reference]

As a result, I do not believe a blanket statement regarding non-Incabloc shock protections in Hamilton 2824-2's can be made.


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## tinknocker

tenthousanddays said:


> Based on this thread, I reached out to Hamilton customer service regarding my Field Khaki (H704450) which was recently purchased through an authorized retailer. This watch contains the Etachoc shock protection system.
> 
> Here is the response:
> We would like to inform you that the ETA 2824-2 movement in your watch has the grade Elaboré. Concerning your second question, kindly note that we have used both versions of the ETA 2824-2 movements with different shock protection for this watch. Please find below a picture of the ?NivchocS? and the ?Incabloc? for your easy reference. [Email included a picture for reference]
> 
> As a result, I do not believe a blanket statement regarding non-Incabloc shock protections in Hamilton 2824-2's can be made.


You are correct. Did a little digging and found an interesting thread here.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/changing-shock-resistance-350568.html


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## BrentYYC

tenthousanddays said:


> Based on this thread, I reached out to Hamilton customer service regarding my Field Khaki (H704450) which was recently purchased through an authorized retailer. This watch contains the Etachoc shock protection system.
> 
> Here is the response:
> We would like to inform you that the ETA 2824-2 movement in your watch has the grade Elaboré. Concerning your second question, kindly note that we have used both versions of the ETA 2824-2 movements with different shock protection for this watch. Please find below a picture of the ?NivchocS? and the ?Incabloc? for your easy reference. [Email included a picture for reference]
> 
> As a result, I do not believe a blanket statement regarding non-Incabloc shock protections in Hamilton 2824-2's can be made.


How was the question phrased? Did you ask if all "current" Hamiltons with 2824-2 movements have upgraded Incabloc? My understanding is that new Hamiltons with 2824-2 movements are Elabore grade with Incabloc upgrades. Nivachoc was used in the past so it's correct that you will see them both ways, but if you're buying a new watch with a 2824-2 movement it should have Incabloc. I'm wondering if the question asked wasn't precise enough so the answer provided was too broad.


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## tenthousanddays

BrentYYC said:


> tenthousanddays said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on this thread, I reached out to Hamilton customer service regarding my Field Khaki (H704450) which was recently purchased through an authorized retailer. This watch contains the Etachoc shock protection system.
> 
> Here is the response:
> We would like to inform you that the ETA 2824-2 movement in your watch has the grade Elaboré. Concerning your second question, kindly note that we have used both versions of the ETA 2824-2 movements with different shock protection for this watch. Please find below a picture of the ?NivchocS? and the ?Incabloc? for your easy reference. [Email included a picture for reference]
> 
> As a result, I do not believe a blanket statement regarding non-Incabloc shock protections in Hamilton 2824-2's can be made.
> 
> 
> 
> How was the question phrased? Did you ask if all "current" Hamiltons with 2824-2 movements have upgraded Incabloc? My understanding is that new Hamiltons with 2824-2 movements are Elabore grade with Incabloc upgrades. Nivachoc was used in the past so it's correct that you will see them both ways, but if you're buying a new watch with a 2824-2 movement it should have Incabloc. I'm wondering if the question asked wasn't precise enough so the answer provided was too broad.
Click to expand...

Here is the initial inquiry. It's clear from the first sentence that I am asking about a new watch:

I recently purchased a Field Khaki (H704450) from an authorized dealer. I have two questions/concerns:

1) What grade ETA 2824-2 movement is used in this model? I believe all Hamiltons are Elabore and above, with this model being Elabore.

2) My watch has Etachoc shock protection. Is this standard for my watch model? I have read conflicting discussions stating that Hamilton does not ever use Etachoc, upgrading all to Incabloc--which would mean my watch was not genuine despite being purchase from an authorized dealer.


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## moonraker

tenthousanddays said:


> Here is the initial inquiry. It's clear from the first sentence that I am asking about a new watch:
> 
> I recently purchased a Field Khaki (H704450) from an authorized dealer. I have two questions/concerns:
> 
> 1) What grade ETA 2824-2 movement is used in this model? I believe all Hamiltons are Elabore and above, with this model being Elabore.
> 
> 2) My watch has Etachoc shock protection. Is this standard for my watch model? I have read conflicting discussions stating that Hamilton does not ever use Etachoc, upgrading all to Incabloc--which would mean my watch was not genuine despite being purchase from an authorized dealer.


So back to the original question, are we saying the Hamilton's with the tyre track strap fakes based on the picture of the movement?
jeff


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## tinknocker

moonraker said:


> So back to the original question, are we saying the Hamilton's with the tyre track strap fakes based on the picture of the movement?
> jeff


I would stay away from any Hamilton that doesn't use Incabloc in it's 2824. Read Brent's posts. They sound correct to me.

A few months ago I found a link in an article going to this on Alibaba while doing a little research. They have since taken it down. So I would say, be careful.

And as has been said, who would put that strap on that style watch anyway.


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## tenthousanddays

I think we are all in agreement that the Hamiltons listed with the ugly bands are fake. 

That said, I have a genuine Hamilton recently purchased new from an authorized dealer with an ETA 2824-2 with an Etachoc on my wrist--and Hamilton's customer service agrees. 

Should one be wary? Yes. Is it unequivocally true? IMHO, no.


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## tinknocker

tenthousanddays said:


> I think we are all in agreement that the Hamiltons listed with the ugly bands are fake.
> 
> That said, I have a genuine Hamilton recently purchased new from an authorized dealer with an ETA 2824-2 with an Etachoc on my wrist--and Hamilton's customer service agrees.
> 
> Should one be wary? Yes. Is it unequivocally true? IMHO, no.


I wouldn't mind seeing some pictures of your watch. It may help all of use.


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## tenthousanddays

tinknocker said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing some pictures of your watch. It may help all of use.


Here you go.


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## tinknocker

Thanks for the pictures. It's hard to recognize the shock, with my eye's at least but I take your word for it.
The problem I have is when searching for the watch, I haven't seen any pictures so far of that shock system in it, even in older models. So, for me, I'll stick with the info I personally know.
Just enjoy the watch, that's what matters.


----------



## tenthousanddays

Try this one. The shock system is hopefully far clearer.


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## PSUAth

that's what my Hamilton looks like, but it's the 2834-2 (day/date) movement. I bought mine from an AD.


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## poised

I have the titanium version with titanium bracelet. While the Dial looks right (from memory as I don't have it on), as others have noted the movement is not correct. Specifically the absence of the eccentric regulating screw.


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## tenthousanddays

poised said:


> I have the titanium version with titanium bracelet. While the Dial looks right (from memory as I don't have it on), as others have noted the movement is not correct. Specifically the absence of the eccentric regulating screw.


Let's recount the facts:
1) I bought this watch from an AD
2) I have full papers, box, warranty card, and manual from the purchase
3) I contacted Hamilton customer service regarding the movement's "discrepancy" from WUS's expectations
4) Hamilton replied that an Etachoc shock system *has* been used in this model, complete with illustrations

I'm genuinely asking: where is the kink in the logic chain? Maybe Hamilton is using slightly different specs in its movements than it has historically; maybe Hamilton used Etachocs all along in a minority of its movements. I don't know.

Otherwise, what is the alternative, that a well-established AD knowingly and intentionally sold me an incredibly well finished fake watch, complete with papers, then Hamilton customer services erroneously responds regarding the parts used in its watch movements? That sounds like a tin-foil-hat scenario to me if I've ever heard one.


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## poised

My apologies, was a very busy day. I didn't catch the part where you purchased from an AD. In that case, probably nothing wrong. No tin hat here. I thought they all had the eccentric adjusting screw regardless of the shock protection.


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## kin670

I just recently (6/10/2015) bought my H70455533 straight from the hamiltonwatch.com store and it came with a warranty and everything. Since I know they are an authorized dealer, I have to show you guys this. The watch did not have an Incabloc shock protection system laid out on this website.


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## dawiz

kin670 said:


> I just recently (6/10/2015) bought my H70455533 straight from the hamiltonwatch.com store and it came with a warranty and everything. Since I know they are an authorized dealer, I have to show you guys this. The watch did not have an Incabloc shock protection system laid out on this website.
> 
> View attachment 4350121


If you hadn't mentioned where you bought it, I would have said it's a fake for sure. The laser etching looks shoddy and imprecise to me :-/ I hope Hamilton isn't starting g to cut corners on the finishing now


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## kin670

Got a reply from customer service


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## moonraker

Finally got myself the 42mm version with the brown leather strap from an authorised dealer. Really nice watch and to be fair the copy version I purchased from ebay was very like the genuine version. But for this thread I would have been none the wiser! So thanks all

jeff


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## Watchfreek

Just out of interest, so does your new one have an incabloc?


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## moonraker

Here is a not very good pic


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## Watchfreek

Errrrr.........


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## moonraker

It looks the same as the one tenthousandays posted on page 7. Purchased from a big retail jewellery chain in the UK !


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## Watchfreek

Oh OK, so you didn't get an incabloc. Seems the recent ones didn't get the shock upgrade, which negates some of the other members' proposition that a non-incabloc is indicative of a fake. I certainly am glad I had it in mine but mine was purchasd back in 08.


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## moonraker

Right, yes I'm happy this is 100% genuine !! Had bought a 38mm version from a major on line shop last week but returned it as it was too small, that had the same movement with no shock protection, so assume this is standard now?


----------



## Watchfreek

Not really sure. Recent purchases from another brand (that does not belong to the Swatch group ie group that makes Hamiltons and the ETA movements) still has an incabloc in it but I'm not sure whether the third party brand has specified to have an incabloc in their movements from ETA. Anyway, I'm sure the regular user won't be able to tell the difference in performance. What's important is there are other tell-tale signs beside the shock system. The absence of the fork identified earlier (IE a completely different movement) and differences in quality of etching/engraving on the rotor and/or caseback are quite obvious. Glad we have at least helped a couple of people on here escape getting conned. Enjoy your new watch bud. Wear it well and often!


----------



## moonraker

Plan to mate
cheers ;-)


----------



## abccoin

BIG thank you to all the valuable information on this thread, I was very surprised to hear that there are fake Hamiltons.

I almost got fooled into buying one of these on ebay from seller "goldenwatches". After reading the info here and taking a close look at the back of the watch, it was quite different from a gen.

I did a little research and it appears there are a number of sellers in Canada, the U.K. and Germany selling this or the black version so there is obviously some sort of distribution of these fake pieces going on.



jfk75219 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was looking for information on some suspect 42mm's, and luckily this forum popped up. I have seen several on eBay, but the blue dial stood out to me. Did Hamilton ever make a blue dial 42mm? I have reached out to all sellers for the complete model number, but no one can provide it (no hangtag, no box or papers). 95% sure it is a fake, especially due to the crappy band and buckle. Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> JFK


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## tinknocker

kin670 said:


> Got a reply from customer service


Problem I see with that reply is they don't say "we do use both". They say we have, when? and do they still use both?


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## kin670

moonraker said:


> Right, yes I'm happy this is 100% genuine !! Had bought a 38mm version from a major on line shop last week but returned it as it was too small, that had the same movement with no shock protection, so assume this is standard now?


There is shock protection in the form of a Nivachoc S. Who is to say the incabloc is an upgrade? Unless there is a repeatable test; like most things here, its speculation.


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## moonraker

Got to say its a really nice watch, leather strap is good quality too

jeff


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## spgary

A very informative thread... getting my Hamilton King from Singapore today. hopefully all will be fine and genuine


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## bryan_locklear

Hi,

I came across this thread when researching a similar Hamilton Khaki on eBay. I know that it's been the consensus that the watches in question are fakes. To add on, here's what I found.

The one I wanted was blue-dialed but otherwise identical to the ones in this thread (42mm, black waffle band, gold text on rotor, large lume pips). Offered by same sellers too. I asked Hamilton sales if they ever made a blue version of the Khaki (implied model number would be H70555543). They responded:

*Thank you for your inquiry and for visiting our website.

There was, at one time but now discontinued, a 42mm Khaki Field automatic with a blue dial.

H70515143 on a bracelet.*

I'm attaching the picture they sent below:









So I'd say the Hamiltons in question (blue) are confirmed fakes and by extension so are the black dialed ones. Note, the pic is of a 38mm watch. I assume Hamilton sent the picture of the wrong-sized model.

FWIW....


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## kherova

I so want one, but don't like the idea of paying real price for a fake. I too found several around the net the same as pictured in the first post.
I emailed Hamilton, and asked about other attributes that might give it away. I was dubious about the strap and the engraving on the rotor to see if those might be silver bullets. This is what I got back:

"Please note that Hamilton has produced rubber straps in all variations in the last 30 years and without clear pictures of the strap, buckle and or reference number we can’t confirm or decline that the strap shown is an original Hamilton rubber strap. 
All our accessories are available in after sales and the sellers on the links below may have customized the watch with a Hamilton rubber strap after the purchase of the watch. 

The logo on the rotor is not original and for sure not gold filled, it looks like somebody has engraved the logo on an already Nickel-plated Brass rotor and not applied a new Nickel coating after the engraving. 
Again this is all speculation and we are unable to confirm that the watches shown on the links below are original or fake Hamilton watches without having them in our hands for analysis."


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## roondog

I would be very grateful if anyone can give me their opinion on this Hamilton Khahki automatic 42mm with silver dial I bought in haste. After reading some threads on dodgy Hamiltons with rubber straps though I'm convinced it's fake. I bought it on eBay on a whim before I'd done my homework as the item was about to end.

It hasn't been delivered yet. Here's a link:

Hamilton Khaki Field Automatic Military Wrist Watch Great Condition | eBay

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## johncintron

I'm not expert when it comes to busting fakes, but I had a look at the Ebay link you posted and immediately spotted something outstanding. Take a look at the regulating mechanism that I posted a picture of. That's not what it looks like on a genuine ETA 2824 movement. I say open up a claim with the dealer.

Best of luck,
JC


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## roondog

johncintron said:


> View attachment 6359569
> 
> 
> I'm not expert when it comes to busting fakes, but I had a look at the Ebay link you posted and immediately spotted something outstanding. Take a look at the regulating mechanism that I posted a picture of. That's not what it looks like on a genuine ETA 2824 movement. I say open up a claim with the dealer.
> 
> Best of luck,
> JC


Hi JC,

Thanks for the info it is much appreciated.

The watch arrived today & I've already asked for a refund including postage both ways. It is the noisiest hand winding movement I've ever heard & it does not hack! Pretty conclusive that it ain't real I'd say.


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## johncintron

If it doesn't hack, then we can definitively conclude that it's not authentic. Glad I could help.

Cheers,
JC


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## jofro

After seeing this thread I had to give mine a better inspection.


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## Petrolicious88

Great thread. Learned a lot. Someone asked, why would they spend the effort to make a fake Hamilton.

Answer: they make fake everything, from fake toothpaste that cost $2 to counterfeit operating systems.

Regarding the shock protection, I also contacted Hamilton customer support and here are the word for word responses:

""Thank you for your message and information.

Please note that Hamilton used both systems for the 2824-2 movements in the past. Further are all 2824-2 used by Hamilton elaboré grad.

There are Chinese replicas for both systems on the market, if you want to be sure to purchase an original Hamilton product, check all our official dealers on our website or directly here:
Store Locator | Hamilton Watch

We remain at your disposal for further questions.

Kind regards
Sebastian Kärle
Watchmaker""


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## Petrolicious88

Great thread. Learned a lot. Someone asked, why would they spend the effort to make a fake Hamilton.

Answer: they make fake everything, from fake toothpaste that cost $2 to counterfeit operating systems.

Regarding the shock protection, I also contacted Hamilton customer support and here are the word for word responses:

""Thank you for your message and information.

Please note that Hamilton used both systems for the 2824-2 movements in the past. Further are all 2824-2 used by Hamilton elaboré grad.

There are Chinese replicas for both systems on the market, if you want to be sure to purchase an original Hamilton product, check all our official dealers on our website or directly here:
Store Locator | Hamilton Watch

We remain at your disposal for further questions.

Kind regards
Sebastian Kärle
Watchmaker""


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## tygrysastyl

Hi all,

This is great thread on forum for sure. Thanks to help from friend jeacock (https://www.watchuseek.com/member.php?u=184347).I was able to avoid buying a fake. Initially, loud and proud, I posted my "great" find on the https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/incoming-what-have-you-got-mail-part-5-a-1246922.html. Thanks to message from jeacock I doubted the originality of the watch and I was right to do so. I've bought a Hamilton that turned out to be a fake. I did contact the seller and got full refund from him (transaction through eBay so relatively "safe" risk). So story has a 'good' ending.

This thread helped a lot, but I thought that adding my own pictures will help out others to avoid similar mistakes. I must admit that fake was elaborate. What really gave it away was the type of '+/- regulator' of the spring of balance wheel on the movement itself (I hope I'm correct with this description) and lack of hacking second. Size, quality of build, engravings and luminescence was all really well copied.

Here are the pictures of fake:

























































If anyone fancies larger, better quality pictures, please visit here: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B02JEsNWnGMZXpx

Equally, with tons of new knowledge I found this piece, which seems to be original and I bought it, should have it within couple of weeks:

















Hopefully this time my purchase will turn out to be all good and I'll be able to enjoy my new time piece.

Thanks again for all of you in this thread, but special shout out goes to jeacock, as without him I'll be wearing a fake without probably even realising it.

Thanks for watching.

Piotr


----------



## Bob Dobbs needs Slack

Looking at the 42mm Khaki Auto on my wrist today vs the photos Tygrysastyl posted of the knock-off, I see some minor dial differences. My hour and minute hands are slightly longer. The 24hr markings are smaller vs the outer 1-12. The minute markings at 5 minute intervals are thinner font on my watch and slightly further from the lume dots. The matte finished ring at the hour dials appears to be recessed slightly on the fake where mine is almost smooth. The date window bevel looks different. The crown on the fake appears thinner then mine.

All in all, that is a scary accurate fake. I held my watch up to my computer screen and was able to pick out the differences with some study... I'm not certain if the dial has changed through time or not, perhaps my watch has a different dial and crown then the one the knock-off builder used to clone.

I bought mine used several years ago for under 200USD, but it came from a known source whom I was with when he purchased it new at an AD.


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## JohnsonDaPanda

Hello! I just recently bought a Hamilton Khaki as my Christmas gift from Amazon. It's the H70555533 model. However, the movement isn't ETA 2824-2. I looked around and found a youtube video saying it's an H-10 movement. Can anyone confirm the authenticity of my watch?? Please help! And happy holidays!! If you guys need more photos, I will provide.


----------



## JohnsonDaPanda

JohnsonDaPanda said:


> Hello! I just recently bought a Hamilton Khaki as my Christmas gift from Amazon. It's the H70555533 model. However, the movement isn't ETA 2824-2. I looked around and found a youtube video saying it's an H-10 movement. Can anyone confirm the authenticity of my watch?? Please help! And happy holidays!! If you guys need more photos, I will provide.


Oh, it does hack by the way.


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## tygrysastyl

JohnsonDaPanda said:


> Oh, it does hack by the way.


Hi,

Looks all fine to me, Hamilton now does use the H-10 movement. I'm no expert but I think you got yourself nice gift. Enjoy.


----------



## JohnsonDaPanda

tygrysastyl said:


> Hi,
> 
> Looks all fine to me, Hamilton now does use the H-10 movement. I'm no expert but I think you got yourself nice gift. Enjoy.


Thank you for confirming kind sir! Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year!


----------



## MFoley1956

This thread saved me from a fake ebay purchase. Many thanks, and Happy New Year


----------



## buyingtime

This is crazy. I read this and had to run and quick double check all of mine even though they were purchased at an AD years before this thread, lol. Great to see the forum saving people from this BS!


----------



## Aonarch

tobytobes said:


> looks real. very unlikely anyone would make such a high quality fake of an inexpensive watch. it's real I'm sure.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


this


----------



## aritzbm

is this a fake? Hamilton Khaki Field Automatic Blue Dial Swiss Made Excellent Condition Watch


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## aritzbm

is this a fake? Hamilton Khaki Field Automatic Blue Dial Swiss Made Excellent Condition Watch | eBay


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## jeacock

aritzbm said:


> is this a fake? Hamilton Khaki Field Automatic Blue Dial Swiss Made Excellent Condition Watch | eBay


Yes.


----------



## Rogco

Ha, this thread's made me paranoid! Got this watch today and I think it's ok. Has the Etachoc I think, but rest looked ok from what I could gather. It's an H704450. I noticed that it doesn't have the movement type or sapphire crystal on the back, is that an issue? Thanks for the feedback.


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## CrazyCat

Rogco said:


> Ha, this thread's made me paranoid! Got this watch today and I think it's ok. Has the Etachoc I think, but rest looked ok from what I could gather. It's an H704450. I noticed that it doesn't have the movement type or sapphire crystal on the back, is that an issue? Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> View attachment 10575570


It's ok: latest casebacks miss detailed information about the caliber, for example.

Congrats on your new Hamilton!


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## Rogco

CrazyCat said:


> It's ok: latest casebacks miss detailed information about the caliber, for example.
> 
> Congrats on your new Hamilton!


 Thanks! Really like it.


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## barracuda

Hello friends
Is this a fake?


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## barracuda




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## jeacock

barracuda said:


> Hello friends
> I this a fake? /QUOTE]
> 
> Almost certainly, although your pics are lousy. The obvious giveaway is the regulator fork (or rather lack thereof). Compare Rogco's photo above to yours.


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## MaxIcon

Wow! Just looked on ebay - these fakes are everywhere, and are selling like crazy! Some of them still have the tire tread straps, though some of the pics have the rotor positioned so it's harder to tell if it's a 2824. One even had a pic of a Glycine marked movement! 

The other common problem seems to be the lume dots - either too big and running into the second markers, or off-center on some of the positions. I guess it's AD only for future Hammy buys.


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## Swayndo

Got this through today from an eBay purchase? Had my doubts anyway, but I'm pretty sure it's a good quality replica. It's a 42mm blue, it doesn't have the fork on the regulator and the second hand doesn't stop when I pull the crown out. There is no box and the leather strap on it was aftermarket. Nothing to back up the seller's claim that this was genuine really.

Thing is ... I really really like it. The colour with this blue NATO looks wonderful and it seems to be working well and keeping good time. I've already said I want to return it but I've half a notion to make him an offer for it as a replica. No idea what I'd offer if that was the case, but what do forum members think?









Sent from my SM-T715 using Tapatalk


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## tygrysastyl

Swayndo said:


> Got this through today from an eBay purchase? Had my doubts anyway, but I'm pretty sure it's a good quality replica. It's a 42mm blue, it doesn't have the fork on the regulator and the second hand doesn't stop when I pull the crown out. There is no box and the leather strap on it was aftermarket. Nothing to back up the seller's claim that this was genuine really.
> 
> Thing is ... I really really like it. The colour with this blue NATO looks wonderful and it seems to be working well and keeping good time. I've already said I want to return it but I've half a notion to make him an offer for it as a replica. No idea what I'd offer if that was the case, but what do forum members think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T715 using Tapatalk


Return it. I had similar situation and guilt of wearing fake over took wish to keep the watch. This Hamilton is such a great watch. Don't spoil pleasure of having original one.

That my view.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Swayndo

Yeah, will return. Wish I could find a real one like it tho.

Sent from my SM-T715 using Tapatalk


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## Vlance

Swayndo said:


> Yeah, will return. Wish I could find a real one like it tho.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T715 using Tapatalk


I didn't think they even made that model in blue?


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## humphrj

watch out for sellers megawatchdepot2014 and aghisniwatchtraders. Almost if not all of their watches are fake - lots of Hamiltons, Rado, Omega, Fortis and even fake SKX. 
Look at their sold as well as for sale. They have had so many identical watches go through their hands as to be impossible. The fake Seikos have has the same serial number as others seen before. The Fortis supercompressor has got laser etched markings on the inside of the caseback and hasn't got the supercompressor style ring inside. The Seiko Bullhead is complete and utter Bullsh++. Beware.


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## glitchhh

Hey guys,

I bought a Hamilton Khaki Field automatic watch from seller *ancient.times*, in which I was suspicious before bidding on it.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HAMILTON-KH...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The more I look into this and read up on it, it looks like this seller buys fake watch kits and drops in some movement and then sells them. If you look at his sold lists there is no way he has that many of the same watches and can sell them for that cheap which is extremely suspicious.

I had posted and asked but was told that it is genuine but now I have my suspicions.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f357/fake-hamilton-khaki-field-automatic-4564163.html


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## glitchhh

To make matters worse he has sold a bunch of these Fortis Flieger watches that look exactly like the fake blue and white dial in this thread and he also uses the same pictures and descriptions in all his listings. How did I not catch this earlier, I've since paid and watch has already left the UK on its way to Canada.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f251/beware-fake-fortis-flieger-watches-ebay-3621922.html


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## Makaan90

Hello. New to this thread.

Is my Hamilton H785550 fake? Bought from Ebay. I recieved box, manual and even guarantee card with stamps from a jewelry store in New York.


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## Makaan90

Apologizing for necroing the thread, but I got really nervous and thanks beforehand. And yes, the bezel is not perfectly aligned.


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## jeacock

Not too familiar with that model, but the movement certainly appears genuine. Looks nice.


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## chirs1211

Looks fine to me.
What makes you think it's a fake? 
Given that you have box & papers etc,does something not look right ?

Chris


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## Sansoni7

Hi
Real or fake?






Thank you.


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## Sansoni7

Double post...sorry.


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## steddyrhodes

Hi, new to Hamiltons and just got this one. I put in an offer for half the listing price and the seller accepted. I cant find any info on this model, but the back says limited series, the second hand sweeps beautifully, and the date has a quick change feature. I’m not sure if it’s real because the international seller accepted such a low offer with. I counter and he movement does not say Hamilton. Thanks!


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## harrismonkey

After going over this thread, I feel like this Hamilton Khaki is fake too?
[video]https://imgur.com/a/iZlxRw3[/video]


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## harrismonkey

After going over this thread, I feel like this Hamilton Khaki is fake too?
[video]https://imgur.com/a/iZlxRw3[/video]


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## chirs1211

Well...i think the crown is wrong for the model, at least.

Photos would be better than a video to see the details though.

Chris


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## harrismonkey

I'm sorry for the terrible photo quality as these are directly from the seller: 
[video]https://imgur.com/a/OP8kVD3[/video]

The lume at 25 and 35 seems to be reapplied and is missing at 40. Looks like the watch has been worked on but not sure if it's fake.


----------



## chirs1211

One of the main telltales is off centre lume dots, these are better than some but still a little off.
If you were looking to buy this i'd walk away personally 

Chris


----------



## Yolly111

+ 1 on this one.

Seems a bit too inexpensive watch to copy, but I might be wrong...


----------



## Yolly111

Petrolicious88 said:


> Great thread. Learned a lot. Someone asked, why would they spend the effort to make a fake Hamilton.
> 
> Answer: they make fake everything, from fake toothpaste that cost $2 to counterfeit operating systems.
> 
> Regarding the shock protection, I also contacted Hamilton customer support and here are the word for word responses:
> 
> ""Thank you for your message and information.
> 
> Please note that Hamilton used both systems for the 2824-2 movements in the past. Further are all 2824-2 used by Hamilton elaboré grad.
> 
> There are Chinese replicas for both systems on the market, if you want to be sure to purchase an original Hamilton product, check all our official dealers on our website or directly here:
> Store Locator | Hamilton Watch
> 
> We remain at your disposal for further questions.
> 
> Kind regards
> Sebastian Kärle
> Watchmaker""


Wow, great thread! I could not imagine that it would be worth copying a watch which is very reasonably priced to start with.

Guess I was wrong...


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## fbdyws6

I'm amazed they make fake Hamilton Khakis, they are not exactly crazy expensive even new!


----------

