# Why I hate dropping the wings on the new Breitling logo.



## countingseconds

As an industrial designer I LOVE logos and I appreciate the amount of work (and inspiration!) that the good ones require. Now, looking at the new Breitling logo I can't help it and feel disappointed. I ask myself: really? a B, because your name starts with b? That's how much thought and work you put into your logo? That's how you want your consumers to be inspired by?


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## WatchEnthusiast

I too am disappointed to see Breitling abandon the wings logo, which in my opinion, looked much nicer.


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## Vlance

Hmm... I do like the wings logo, but the B above Breitling seems to clean up the aesthetic on the dial. Almost like having just the crown above Rolex. So, can’t say I hate it.
Maybe they could have worked them into the seconds hand somehow?


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## helderberg

I did a little looking around on WatchFread's Instagram account and found that the B has a long tradition in the Breitling line. The addition of the Wings is a fairly recent change that I have to agree is a very nice logo. For me I think the B is a clean look but I would have left the wings on the Nav line and used the B for the 8 series as that is also a throwback to an original design as well. Just my opinion but it works for me. I had originally come out against the change but have come to better understand the idea and also like the 8 chrono. Again, not the popular view here but I can live with that also.
Frank.


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## CGP

I agree, it appears that they may be going back to their roots a bit. From what little research I've done, it appears that the solo B first appeared on the original Navitimer in 1952. Could also be that they are planning on trying to widen their scope of being a pilot watch company. Dropping the wings could be the first step in that direction. Just a guess on my part.


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## O2AFAC67

I contend it is more a cost cutting measure by Kern (to help monetize the company for eventual sale) under the guise of rebranding as a new age conservator of the environment. Each and every one of those applied wings was either yellow, red or white 18K gold stamp/cut from a long strip of the metal and hand applied to its dial. Easy deletion from the Kern spreadsheet no doubt. Speculating, I would also not be surprised to see the famous Pilot and Navitimer bracelets disappear in favor of less complex 3 segment per link styled bracelets like the Pro III or many other watch brands. Just my /02 worth... 
Ron

Edit: Yep. Dropped the Pilot bracelet starting with the "new" Chronomat in early 2020. Replaced with the "iconic" 🤔 rouleaux (bullet) bracelet from the 80's/90's.


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## Huttfuzz

I agree with OP. The big gold wings logo on my Navitimer 01 is one of its most attractive feature. It's a shame. I think the new Navitimer 41 with the B looks quite ridiculous. The 43 looks better but still not up to what it was imo. 

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## arcadelt

CGP said:


> From what little research I've done, it appears that the solo B first appeared on the original Navitimer in 1952.


Here it is on a 1940s Chronomat.

Image credit: H.Q. Milton


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## arcadelt

countingseconds said:


> As an industrial designer I LOVE logos and I appreciate the amount of work (and inspiration!) that the good ones require. Now, looking at the new Breitling logo I can't help it and feel disappointed. I ask myself: really? a B, because your name starts with b?


As an industrial engineer did you notice the logo also had an anchor?

"B" logo is at least 70 years old.


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## Aashdin

I myself am a graphic designer. +1 for the wing & anchor logo. The skewed B just does not look right to me. The anchor passing through previous one with the wings on either side gave it a perfect symmetry. Just my 2 cents
I never knew that all the applied logos were 18k solid gold. Thanks for the info Ron.


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## De Wolfe

I love the old logo as a logo more than the new one; But I like the new logo on the watch more, its cleaner, implementing the new Breitling design language.


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## O2AFAC67

An endangered species which IMO should have been saved by the brand's new age conservation effort...  

(photo credit Gustavo Delgado)


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## cory79

I agree. My favorite aspect of my Superocean 44 Special dial is the logo. The B logo on the Heritage models is so boring!


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## MattBat

The wing-less B doesn't offend me as a design in and of itself, it's the obvious change of company direction that it represents which chaps my hide.


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## COZ

helderberg said:


> The addition of the Wings is a fairly recent *For me I think the B is a clean look but I would have left the wings on the Nav line and used the B for the 8 series as that is also a throwback to an original design as well. *
> Frank.


I would agree with this idea.


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## Burgs

Kearn puts me in mind of the more clueless and unimaginative administrators I've had in my career. They really didn't have the slightest idea of what they were doing or how to go about implementing meaningful and productive changes, so they'd just make silly and pointless changes hoping to give the impression that they would be perceived as competent. Perhaps even slightly above average.,

In this instance all that Kearn has accomplishes is to annoy his bedrock customers in the hopes that those unfamiliar with the brand will now be unable to resist the compunction to rush out and buy thousands of Breitings because of his unparalleled genius at replacing the traditional and established logo with a capital B. 
I'm sure that within the old Breitling management there is now much wailing and gnashing their teeth - them thinking (or not), "If *I* had only though of the capitol B logo, Breitling would have been the top watch producer in the world!

"The Squad" marketing ploy is equally silly. The tired old "Jump On The Bang Wagon" ploy isn't going to do it for Breitling, especially if it is seen by its existing core purchasers as a repudiation of them and their values.

Regardless of legal name, official title, or gender, such managers invariably received the same code name from those doomed to serve below the high exalted one: "The Putz."
At times there might even be a "The Big Putz" and a deputy "The Little Putz", but Putz expresses more than any english word could ever do.


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## countingseconds

arcadelt said:


> As an industrial engineer did you notice the logo also had an anchor?
> 
> "B" logo is at least 70 years old.


Maybe I didn't express my point well enough. 70 years ago, brand image and marketing were not as strong and necessary as it is nowadays. Maybe back then this scenario was absolutely okay:
"hey, you can draw and I own a watch shop. Please come up with a logo that represents my brand well". The answer: "sure, your name starts with a b, so why don't we use a capital B as a logo?"
Hahahaha, this thing will never fly in our world today!!!! It's exactly like Breitling left our time and went back 70 years.


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## trueblueswiss

countingseconds said:


> Hahahaha, this thing will never fly in our world today!!!! It's exactly like Breitling left our time and went back 70 years.


Do you mean using a single initial won't fly in our world today? Apart from a whole bunch of the big players in luxury goods business??


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## countingseconds

trueblueswiss said:


> Do you mean using a single initial won't fly in our world today? Apart from a whole bunch of the big players in luxury goods business??


No, I meant it as a designer, in my design world. I can't imagine marketing coming to me with a logo request and I give them: "hey, your name starts with a b, so let's have a B as a logo!" They'd kick my butt for lack of effort.


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## Micro

I feel that the new b logo should be used on Breitlings dressier lines while retaining the wing logo for their tool lines of watches.


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## King_Neptune

Micro said:


> I feel that the new b logo should be used on Breitlings dressier lines while retaining the wing logo for their tool lines of watches.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


EXACTLY! Just as has been in recent decades!


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## Rescue

Huttfuzz said:


> I agree with OP. The big gold wings logo on my Navitimer 01 is one of its most attractive feature. It's a shame. I think the new Navitimer 41 with the B looks quite ridiculous. The 43 looks better but still not up to what it was imo.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


My thoughts exactly.


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## trueblueswiss

countingseconds said:


> No, I meant it as a designer, in my design world. I can't imagine marketing coming to me with a logo request and I give them: "hey, your name starts with a b, so let's have a B as a logo!" They'd kick my butt for lack of effort.


Fair enough it wasn't that clear to me from what you said. Although Breitling isn't a start up and has a history of using the single 'B' on their watches so I don't think it really applies to a lack of effort. It might have been an easy choice to revert to using it on all products but for me my two favourite Breitling watches have been a SOH & Transocean so maybe my bias based on this is part of my lack of outrage...


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## helderberg

Micro said:


> I feel that the new b logo should be used on Breitlings dressier lines while retaining the wing logo for their tool lines of watches.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I keep going back to the "NEW" site and would even take this idea a little further. Use the B for the Heritage and 8 lines and leave the wing logo for the tool lines. The more I look at my Nav and then the new/old logo on the new Nav it just looks wrong to me. Reading Ron's take on the cost aspect I can not get that logic out of my mind. If that is the underlying reason then I would say it is more than ill advised as a direction for those of us that have been with the brand for many years. I still have a problem with the Squads. I am all for cleaning up our environment and such but the tag lines approach is just too much for this old man.
Just my .02, Frank.


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## Hunterfate

Just loving that visual clutter 










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## O2AFAC67

White gold elegance...


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## JStyles

Classic white gold wings FTW! I love applied logos, and the fact that both of my colts have applied logos that are white gold is amazing.


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## Buddman

countingseconds said:


> No, I meant it as a designer, in my design world. I can't imagine marketing coming to me with a logo request and I give them: "hey, your name starts with a b, so let's have a B as a logo!" They'd kick my butt for lack of effort.


Ya, I'm sure what they say at Louis Vuitton too!

in any case, what did a anchor have to do with a company styling itself on pilot watches?


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## countingseconds

Buddman said:


> Ya, I'm sure what they say at Louis Vuitton too!
> 
> in any case, what did a anchor have to do with a company styling itself on pilot watches?


According with Vogue, the LV monogram appeared for the first time in 1896. That's 122 years ago. Very different world back then.
The anchor, to me, it represents Breitling dedication and achievements in the diving world.


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## Michael Day

Perhaps this has more to do with the Asian market where Brietling is very weak. 


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## arcadelt

Buddman said:


> Ya, I'm sure what they say at Louis Vuitton too!
> 
> in any case, what did a anchor have to do with a company styling itself on pilot watches?


It has diving and water sport watches too.


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## ZeroApr

countingseconds said:


> As an industrial designer I LOVE logos and I appreciate the amount of work (and inspiration!) that the good ones require. Now, looking at the new Breitling logo I can't help it and feel disappointed. I ask myself: really? a B, because your name starts with b? That's how much thought and work you put into your logo? That's how you want your consumers to be inspired by?


Yeah it seems like they are throwing the baby out with the bath water in their new lineup. I don't own a breitling and yeah I've been in the camp that found a number of designs too blingy. But Breitling has some iconic pieces like the Navitimer.

The logo is an important mark for the brand and heritage. And I think the direction of the new designs went too far in minimalism that creates a break from continuity.

The new ownership may be oversteering in the designs. And these design moves seem to be statement of the new route they're taking to address the lagging sales. 
I get they need to take action to improve sales, but they have to take care in not alienating the existing customer base. It's a delicate balance between retaining core customers and attracting new ones.

I hope the new management takes a longview approach and don't dilute the brand by chasing trends.

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## Mister Lamb

Grabbed this great pic yesterday. The gold gives the dial such a pleasant look.

https://i.imgur.com/5Zo0uxU.jpg


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## Robertus

I hope the older "Breitling"-calligraphy will also find its way back to the dials, as written e. g. on the Grand Premier from year 1999. (The two watches in the middle.)


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## MES1808

I have to say, I too was not a fan of the new logo, initially. I'm still not too sure. I LOVE the air&sea logo However, I also like the new,very clean look of the dials. I bought the new Chronomat Colt just the other day and I have to say this is one amazing watch. Breitling got it all right this time around. The all-brushed look (CEO Kern is not fan of Breitling's history of bling) and the new, clean dial with the white gold "B" is much more elegant and classy. The watch is simple perfection. Very, very timeless and rugged and solid. I am very impressed. I think they are going in the right direction, without a doubt, but it is an uncomfortable transition for us old Breitling fanboys. Get your hands on one of these new watches in persona and you will immediately see what I am talking about.


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## ProjectQuattro

My SOH has the B logo and I agree that it's more understated and a bit classier, but I love the Breitling anchor and wing logo. It's my favorite part of the Navitimer and most other models. I think they should continue using it; their more functional designs look odd with just the simple B logo.


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## O2AFAC67

Because the wings made sense...


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## MissileExpert

I wonder how many sales were lost because someone _didn't_ like the winged logo or felt it conveyed an aeronautical history vs. a naval or army history? Getting rid of the flying B is kind of like switching to the new Coca Cola. Bring it back!


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## arcadelt

MissileExpert said:


> I wonder how many sales were lost because someone _didn't_ like the winged logo or felt it conveyed an aeronautical history vs. a naval or army history? Getting rid of the flying B is kind of like switching to the new Coca Cola. Bring it back!


Conversely, I wonder how many sales were gained because someone liked the more traditional look of the new logo or felt it conveyed a return to the brands historical roots? It's like introducing a more classic cola than Classic Coke.


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## RobMc

I prefer the wing logo. However, I never understood the wing logo/anchor counter balance combo. One seems to imply a pilots watch, the other a dive watch. 


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## arcadelt

RobMc said:


> I prefer the wing logo. However, I never understood the wing logo/anchor counter balance combo. One seems to imply a pilots watch, the other a dive watch.


But doesn't Breitling make pilot watches and dive watches?


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## RobMc

arcadelt said:


> But doesn't Breitling make pilot watches and dive watches?


Sure. But there should be no anchor counter balance on Navitimers, and there have been.

Slap it on a Superocean, sure.

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## MissileExpert

RobMc said:


> I prefer the wing logo. However, I never understood the wing logo/anchor counter balance combo. One seems to imply a pilots watch, the other a dive watch.


But the latest wing logo has an anchor in it as well.


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## RobMc

And? I said I liked the wing logo. Not the wing/anchor combo. 


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## arcadelt

RobMc said:


> Sure. But there should be no anchor counter balance on Navitimers, and there have been.
> 
> Slap it on a Superocean, sure.


I see your point, but for that time is was the Breitling logo, and very few companies have different logos for different products. Even Breitling only started doing this towards the end of the Schneider-era.


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## Reeser1

I thought the wing and anchor was the best logo in the watch industry. It suits the brand and looks wonderful. I was disappointed when it changed. I would not be surprised if the logo was brought back in a few years.


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## O2AFAC67

Reeser1 said:


> I thought the wing and anchor was the best logo in the watch industry. It suits the brand and looks wonderful. I was disappointed when it changed. I would not be surprised if the logo was brought back in a few years.


One can only hope...


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## RobMc

I love the look of it, it just never made sense to me. 


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## Michael Day

RobMc said:


> Sure. But there should be no anchor counter balance on Navitimers, and there have been.
> 
> Slap it on a Superocean, sure.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What about the fact that you can wear your pilots watch into 300m of water. Planes often fly over water. 









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## Burgs

countingseconds said:


> No, I meant it as a designer, in my design world. I can't imagine marketing coming to me with a logo request and I give them: "hey, your name starts with a b, so let's have a B as a logo!" They'd kick my butt for lack of effort.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Netherlands isn't a *B* in a red circle the official road sign for Bordello?


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## lis_255

Swap the shield with a B and you've got a pretty original logo :-d


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## Acar7145

Agree! looks so much nicer with the wings


countingseconds said:


> As an industrial designer I LOVE logos and I appreciate the amount of work (and inspiration!) that the good ones require. Now, looking at the new Breitling logo I can't help it and feel disappointed. I ask myself: really? a B, because your name starts with b? That's how much thought and work you put into your logo? That's how you want your consumers to be inspired by?


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## tockandroll

The wings are just more iconic to Breitling as a brand. Wings remind me of flight. B reminds me of the alphabet.


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## DanielSzeto

*Yes, I totally agree. The Wings logo should be back!!*


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## maximalek

wings logo is supernice, but the gold B on superocean heritage looks also awesome under blue AR crystal


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## trueblueswiss

O2AFAC67 said:


> Because the wings made sense...


Agreed suits that watch perfectly but I'm not so sure it makes sense on something like the top time in which case the 'B' works.

I hope that as Kern promised the wings make their way back onto the sports lines and the 'B' is left to the heritage and premier lines.


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## ANM8

This is the reply I had a while back from Breitling when I asked the reason for dropping the ICONIC wings...

We thank you for your message and for sharing your thoughts with us.

Actually the “new” logo we have recently introduced is based on the historical Breitling brand logos which were used on our dials and in our communication back in the 1940s and 50s. These logos have gone through minor adjustments for a more contemporary and sober look. The aim of this change is to go back to our roots, since Breitling has not only been renowned for its storied association with aviation, but has also earned a place of privilege in the worlds of science, sport and technology over many decades. We are convinced that the new version of the logo better reflects the history of the brand and it’s DNA.


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## O2AFAC67

I strongly suspect the reason for Kerns' acquiescence to keeping the wings logo on some models is because of the voluminous amount of protest seen here and on other fora. As an aside, beginning around 2003 quite a few display back Breitling pics were posted on various fora and members began to request Breitling bring back that beautiful feature. Schneider apparently listened because a resurgence of display back offerings was welcomed by the market. IMO Kerns has now diluted the feature with the cartoon like applique/decal logos on the "special limited edition" display back models. A tasteful logo on the dial would have been class, a decal covering the movement is not IMHO. Just my .02 worth...
Best,
Ron


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## ANM8

A+ to more display backs..


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## OTX

I like the fact many newer Breitling models come with the display back but the new logo just irritates me. I know it has been used in the past but the wing logo is just so much cooler. Especially on the Navitimer 01. How can the ultimate pilots watch not have wings??.


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## ANM8

At my local dealer today the sales assistant mentioned the amount of people put off by the "missing" wings logo.!!!


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## NavalFlight

Dropping the flying B logo from the Navitimer was an idiotic decision! 
While I’d love the display case back, I prefer my AB012012 with gold wings to the newer model.


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## AndyDav55

BRING BACK THE WINGS!!!


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## NavalFlight

And perhaps a “B” and an anchor for the dive watches?


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## ANM8

No Breitling should be Wingless..


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## [email protected]

To each his own, I love the golden winged logo on my B01 Navitimer. However, I think the wingless logo fits the superocean heritage II rather nicely.


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## Voodoo13

Looks like Bally's Casino LOGO. The old logo incorporated the "B" and the sea with the "anchor" and air with the "wings"....


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## david_h_moss

Great discussion 


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## f2002q

I think the logo with the wings really signifies Breitling. Here is an interesting article about the logo: https://logorealm.com/breitling-logo/.


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## steve.carlson0522

I have 4 Breitlings and would never buy another one since they changed the logo and image.


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## TexasMPH

Micro said:


> I feel that the new b logo should be used on Breitlings dressier lines while retaining the wing logo for their tool lines of watches.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


People like you who speak common sense are dangerous.


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## O2AFAC67

RobMc said:


> I prefer the wing logo. However, I never understood the wing logo/anchor counter balance combo. One seems to imply a pilots watch, the other a dive watch.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


According to Breitling literature at the time of introduction it was meant to represent "Air, Land and Sea"...


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## O2AFAC67

O2AFAC67 said:


> I contend it is more a cost cutting measure by Kern (to help monetize the company for eventual sale) under the guise of rebranding as a new age conservator of the environment. Each and every one of those applied wings was either yellow, red or white 18K gold stamp/cut from a long strip of the metal and hand applied to its dial. Easy deletion from the Kern spreadsheet no doubt. Speculating, I would also not be surprised to see the famous Pilot and Navitimer bracelets disappear in favor of less complex 3 segment per link styled bracelets like the Pro III or many other watch brands. Just my /02 worth...
> Ron
> 
> Edit: Yep. Dropped the Pilot bracelet starting with the "new" Chronomat in early 2020. Replaced with the "iconic" 🤔 rouleaux (bullet) bracelet from the 80's/90's.


Hmmmm... 🤔


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## ItnStln

steve.carlson0522 said:


> I have 4 Breitlings and would never buy another one since they changed the logo and image.


This!


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## NewWaveGuy

steve.carlson0522 said:


> I have 4 Breitlings and would never buy another one since they changed the logo and image.


Indeed!


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