# Which grade of eta use Longines for model hydro conquest automatic ??



## andrejhuraj

I need help. Does any one know which grade of eta 2824-2 Longines use for model hydro conquest 300M 41mm Automatic (L3.642.4.56.6). Buying this watch next week. 
I´ve seen viedo on youtube ( YouTube - Longines Hydroconquest Movement L633.5 (ETA 2824-2) ) where the guy opened the back case showing the movement which btw has nice pearl decoration too. I am pretty comfused as i thought it would be the basic grade of eta and with no decoration whatsoever. Thank you for help !!!


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## Ozy

I'd have to say elabore grade.


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## Enoran

With Mido (a middle range brand under the Swatch Hierachy) having quite a few COSC certified timepiece, I would expect Longines, the high range brand to use the top-rated 2824/2.

However, I have to say that is just purely a guess ... I could be entirely wrong though :think:


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## heb

Hello,
The general rule of thumb is, unless you have strong evidence to the contrary, always assume the lowest grade of ETA 2824 movement. The one shown in the movie is quite well finished, so it probably is something more than off the self and more than likely "elabore" grade. The easiest way to tell if it is the next grade, "Top", is the shape of the balance wheel's spokes. If curved, then that indicates a glycindur (sp?) balance and Top grade. The one in the film looks to have straight spokes, so elabore grade.

I think the only watch company which actually calls out "top" grade movements in its advertisments is MIDO. An obscure brand with iffy designs, but great performing watches. Or at least the one chronograph I have from them.

heb


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## Watchyman

It's an elaboree grade. I asked them once.


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## andrejhuraj

Thank you very much !!!


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## cuthbert

All the Longines that I've seen inside (besides mine) had a decorated movement with the usual round milling that are a sort of "trademark" of the Winged Hourglass since the times it was the "aviator's watch", this because at that time a lot of alluminium panels for airplanes featured the same "decoration".


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## andrejhuraj

I just got answer from Longines Technical adviser 
" Movement is based on ETA Elaboré and is later decorated and adjusted in relation to our technical specifications"
Cant wait for this watch..)


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## mr_raider

Excellent watch selection. Absolutely stunning watch that works for casual or even business attire. The quality is exceptional, and represents a lot of value for the money. Every one comments how nice mine looks. Occasional, a watch freak will recognize the Longines brand and nod with satisfaction!


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## Watchyman

andrejhuraj said:


> I just got answer from Longines Technical adviser
> " Movement is based on ETA Elaboré and is later decorated and adjusted in relation to our technical specifications"
> Cant wait for this watch..)


Told Ya!


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## andrejhuraj

Yep. Thank you !!! I asked Longines coz i wondered whether the movement is decorated too...


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## andrejhuraj

Thank you. I was looking at the Hamilton Khaki Pilot 46mm auto before (price around €700) but couldn´t get it in Slovakia as the distributor bankrupted. Than i found out i could get Longines hydroconquest auto for only €875. Considering Longines is in a High range of Swatch group and Hamilton in a Middle range the price difference is inappreciable. And i would guess Hamilton is using standart grade ETA´s. I am now sure it was the best choice !!! Thanks.


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## mr_raider

well I have a hamilton viewmatic and it uses elabore grade too! The Longines feels much more like a quality timepiece. It's heavier and feels substantial on the wrist. Also, the two tone brushes/polished bracelet looks stunning. Pics don't do it justice.


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## Deviant

mr_raider said:


> well I have a hamilton viewmatic and it uses elabore grade too! The Longines feels much more like a quality timepiece. It's heavier and feels substantial on the wrist. Also, the two tone brushes/polished bracelet looks stunning. Pics don't do it justice.


Aren't you going to post your new purchase on RFD? lol...


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## mr_raider

Deviant said:


> Aren't you going to post your new purchase on RFD? lol...


Well RFD told me about brands other than TAG, like Longines and Hamilton. I guess I should thank them. My next watch is going to be a STowa, got me a hankering for some German!


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## Enoran

andrejhuraj said:


> I just got answer from Longines Technical adviser
> " Movement is based on ETA Elaboré and is later decorated and adjusted in relation to our technical specifications"
> Cant wait for this watch..)


Hmm... now lies in what sort of decorations or improvement did Longines made?


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## mr_raider

Enoran said:


> Hmm... now lies in what sort of decorations or improvement did Longines made?


I can tell you my hydroconquest is gaining +4-6 secs a day, which makes it near COSC spec. Either it's luck of the draw, or Longines did a damn good job.


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## andrejhuraj

I am just waiting for the answer from longines about the decoration they make. And improvements ? They say they are limited in detailed they can answer... Haven´t checked how much my hydroconquest is gaining yet. Will pm later... Also will pm when i get answer from Longines about the decoration. Mr Raider +4 -6 is indead very good and close to COSC spec.


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## andrejhuraj

in 24 hours -2.5 sec )) Why pay for COSC...


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## Turnaround

And mine has been -1.5 sec a day. I love my blue faced version. Wonderful watch and extremely comfortable. I am curious about the decorations.


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## leapfrog

Even if Longines offered COSC certification on some of their watches I wouldn't want it. My Master Collection Moon Phases has a Valjoux 7751 elabore movement. It runs well within COSC specs and other watches with this movement have been COSC certified. Personally I don't see the need for an officially certified chronometer when I can have a watch that runs to the same specs without paying the extra $500 or so for COSC certification.


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## Watchyman

leapfrog said:


> Even if Longines offered COSC certification on some of their watches I wouldn't want it. My Master Collection Moon Phases has a Valjoux 7751 elabore movement. It runs well within COSC specs and other watches with this movement have been COSC certified. Personally I don't see the need for an officially certified chronometer when I can have a watch that runs to the same specs without paying the extra $500 or so for COSC certification.


The COSC certification tells you that the watch SHOULD run within -4/+6 out of the box without you doing anything to it. A watch without a COSC cert COULD run -4/+6 but it is not guaranteed. The COSC cert is a piece of paper tha tells you that your watch has the better execution of the movement and that it has been proven to run with a steady rate of -4/+6.


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## leapfrog

So what is your point? None of that is news to me or contradicts what I said. My point was that the movement in my watch is one of the ones that that has been certified by other manufacturers and sold at a premium(e.g. Breitling Caliber 21), and my experience shows that my watch meets the spec. So why would I pay for certification?

Anyone with a watch that runs naturally at something close to accurate time can be "coaxed" to run at the correct time over the long haul. My watch looses between 2 and 4 seconds a day on my wrist unless I'm more active than normal, in which case it runs at 0 to +2 seconds a day. By resting the watch overnight in the crown down position it gains a second, so I can keep it within 5 seconds either side of dead on over the long term. By wearing the watch when I do some light work in the garden, walk to the store, etc. and by resting it in the crown down position over night, my watch lost a grand total of 3 seconds between October 1 when I reset it to account for the 30 days in September, and November 6th when I reset it to adjust back form daylight savings time. That's 3 seconds slow in 37 days or under 0.1 seconds lost per day.


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## andrejhuraj

Longines answered my question how is the movement decorated:
"As you will see from the photo below the Rotor or the Oscillator Weight has golden inscriptions. The main plate (platina), all the bridges and the rotor has different decorations or finish if you want. This is just details that make Longines apart from a normal ETA caliber. In addition we have adjusted the movement to our standards of tolerance"
I can´t really see the decoration on bridges or other parts as seen in the video i posted earlier...


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## Enoran

See this review (~4:50) on the Tag which SimplySeven (the reviewer) also describe briefly on the Longines L633 mvnt. 
Might just be able to take a closer look on the L633 Mvmt here ...

YouTube - Tag Heuer Carrera Twin Time GMT Watch Review


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## mr_raider

andrejhuraj said:


> Longines answered my question how is the movement decorated:
> "As you will see from the photo below the Rotor or the Oscillator Weight has golden inscriptions. The main plate (platina), all the bridges and the rotor has different decorations or finish if you want. This is just details that make Longines apart from a normal ETA caliber. In addition we have adjusted the movement to our standards of tolerance"
> I can´t really see the decoration on bridges or other parts as seen in the video i posted earlier...


Looks very similar to some of the Master collection decorations. You can see them through the clear back.


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## Watchyman

leapfrog said:


> So what is your point? None of that is news to me or contradicts what I said. My point was that the movement in my watch is one of the ones that that has been certified by other manufacturers and sold at a premium(e.g. Breitling Caliber 21), and my experience shows that my watch meets the spec. So why would I pay for certification?
> 
> Anyone with a watch that runs naturally at something close to accurate time can be "coaxed" to run at the correct time over the long haul. My watch looses between 2 and 4 seconds a day on my wrist unless I'm more active than normal, in which case it runs at 0 to +2 seconds a day. By resting the watch overnight in the crown down position it gains a second, so I can keep it within 5 seconds either side of dead on over the long term. By wearing the watch when I do some light work in the garden, walk to the store, etc. and by resting it in the crown down position over night, my watch lost a grand total of 3 seconds between October 1 when I reset it to account for the 30 days in September, and November 6th when I reset it to adjust back form daylight savings time. That's 3 seconds slow in 37 days or under 0.1 seconds lost per day.


HEY FROG!
I'm not contradicting you, i'm just informing you. 
If you are against the process of learning it's fine by me. BTW, the elaboree grade ETA2824 in your Longines has nothing to do with the Top grade Val 7751 in the Breitling. It's sold at a premium because it's a better movement, and because it's a Breitling.
You have a lot of reading to do.
Enjoy your Longines


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## leapfrog

Wishywatchy:

Well maybe the slight variations in the quality of the movement in the Breitling is of significance. After all, it's elabore vs. chronometer grade.

[Disrespectful text removed by Moderator]


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## Watchyman

leapfrog said:


> Well maybe the slight variations in the quality of the movement in the Breitling is of significance. After all, it's elabore vs. chronometer grade.


There are many differences between a COSC movement and a non COSC movement:

This from Ulackfocus' excellent post titled "Smoke and Mirrors"
https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/smoke-mirrors-part-1-eta-grades-explained-458060.html

Standard 
- adjusted in 2 positions: CH and 6H (click HERE for details on positional timekeeping terminology)
- average daily rate: +/- 12 seconds
- maximum positional variation: 30 seconds
- isochronism between 0 and 24 hours: +/- 20 seconds

Elaboré
- adjusted in 3 positions: CH, 6H, 9H
- average daily rate: +/- 7 seconds
- maximum positional variation: 20 seconds
- isochronism between 0 and 24 hours: +/- 15 seconds

Top
- adjusted in 5 positions: CH, FH, 6H, 9H, 3H
- average daily rate: +/- 4 seconds
- maximum positional variation: 15 seconds
- isochronism between 0 and 24 hours: +/- 10 seconds

Chronometre
- adjusted and timed per COSC specification (see above link under Standard) which is not much different from Top Grade

There are also upgraded parts made with different alloys and materials in the higher grades. The Standard and Elaboré calibers use Etachoc shock protection, a nickel balance wheel with a Nivarox 2 alloy hairspring, a Nivaflex NO mainspring, a steel pallet lever and escape wheel, and polyruby pallet jewels. The Top and Chronometre calibers use Incabloc shock protection, a Glucydur balance wheel with an Anchron alloy hairspring, a Nivaflex NM mainspring, a Nivarox pallet lever and escape wheel, and ruby pallet jewels.

Explaining the advantage of a Glucydur balance over a nickel balance is simple: Glucydur (or beryllium bronze) resists deformation from temperature change or abuse much better than nickel so the balance wheel stays in balance and therefore keeps more consistent time.

After this Dennis (Ulackfocus) includes a picture of a Glucydur balance wheel which is in fact my avatar!.

For the educated reader i am not saying that a simple watch movement CAN'T be really accurate after a good watchmaker regulates it, or if a manufacturer properly adjusts it.
The following is an article from the SCWF where Sir LesZ regulates a Seiko Movement (The 7S26A), when i first read it, the first thing that came to my attention is that after the vibrograph results the 7S26A was very consistent at +30 in five positions. This is very good for a very robust but simple movement.

SCWF Mirror : All you ever wanted to know about regulating your watch yourself...(long post) >>> (Sir Les, 2005-12-18, message 1134916480)

I've read many posts about people being really happy with the accuracy reported from watch with simple movements (some non hacking non hand winding movements) and that says a lot aobut the manufacturer.
But objectively speaking, there are many differences between the different grades in movements. That is why one is more expensive and better than the other.

Take care everyone!

Watchyman


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## mr_raider

Do the differences between elaboré and top do anything other than confer additional accuracy?


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## Watchyman

mr_raider said:


> Do the differences between elaboré and top do anything other than confer additional accuracy?


Hi raider!
There was a post written by Lysanderxii (a very knowledgeable forum member) where he explained that the different parts added to the "Top" execution of the movement makes it "more consistent". A top grade movement can handle the tight specs of -4/+6 easier than an elaboree or standard. There are at least two companies that made the "top grade" execution of the movement the edge for their startup in the business (Boschett and Zenton). Archimede sell their watches with the standard version, but if you want a better movement they can -with a surcharge- replace it with a "top grade movement". Stowa for instance can change your movement for a COSC certified one if you want to. Like i said before, there is nothing wrong with a finely regulated standard or elaboree grade movement, but you can't deny that the top version has better parts. 
I'd be a happy camper with a Longines Hydorconquest with an elaboree 2824 inside!.
I'm sure you can send Lysanderxii a PM and he'll explain it better.


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