# Seiko 5 Military Automatic vs. Citizen Eco Drive Military



## crankcase

I've had this Seiko 5 on my mind for a while now : Seiko 5 Military Automatic Sports SNZG09J1 SNZG09J SNZG09 Men's Japan Made Watch










But then I suddenly stumbled upon something similar from Citizen : Citizen Eco Drive Military BM8475-00X










At first glance they seem very similar... any comments or reviews on how they compare in terms of day to day usability, ruggedness, reliability, lume, etc?

Thanks!


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## cal..45

I have the SNZG09 and it quickly became one of my absolute favorite analog watches. The one thing that always botherd me though, is that the space between the lugs is not sandblasted (opposite to the rest of the case) but fortunately my dealer got rid of that polished parts and now the watch is entirely matt finished. I also exchanged the stock band for a desert tan maratac one-piece and this gives the watch a really nice look. The movement is known to be a rugged, reliable working horse and with a little patience you can even bring it to run within +/- 2 seconds per day. The legibility is outstanding day and night, thanks to the uncluttered dial and the infamous Seiko lumibrite.





































I don't have any experience with that Citizen, but if I look at your picture, I must say that I don't like it. I specifically don't like the recessed position of the day/date window and also the truncated "3" looks unbalanced to me. Besides that, my experience with solar watches is not the best (way too unreliable in my book), so I either prefer a mechanical watch or a quartz watch powered by a CR20xx battery.

Note: on many pics the dial of the SNZG09 appears to be black (including mine), but the dial colour is really a darker green/olive, as you can see here:










cheers


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## samael_6978

I don't have experience with neither of the watches. I owned several eco-drives. Only one long enough to be able to say something regarding reliability. I sold it after owning it for 10 years. It was still running strong.
With this particular model, I think that the hand are disproportionate to the dial. They seem to be too thin and short.

Seiko is renowned for its reliability also. I own Seiko 5 and its a great watch for the price.

If I can suggest something. Take a look at new military watches from Seiko. They hack and handwind. I just saw one on ebay sell for little bit over $100. Just search sor Seiko SRP and you'll see the military style watches.


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## johnee

If that specific Seiko 5 had GMT hand, i'd be all over it.


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## DM71

I have very good experience with eco-drive movements and I find it's a great technology, but I really don't like the dial of that particular watch. The day/date window really look bad so close to the center of the dial IMO and I also don't like the way they integrated it to the 3. Of course, it's a question of personal taste.

I do love My little Seiko Military though!


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## camb66

I would go seiko here as the day/date and 3 on the Citizen drive me crazy


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## Dark30

I have the eco drive model, and wear it for a beater watch and I have to say it has held up astoundingly well. I hardly ever take it off and it still runs pretty much flawlessly. I guess it gains about 10 seconds a month, if that. 

My main peeve with it is the lume is pretty poor. I have done a good job of scratching the crystal up on mine, I am thinking about sending it off and getting a sapphire crystal and brighter lume on the hands which is going to cost more than what I paid for the watch but I'm happy with it so why not?


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## crankcase

Sooo.... I bought the Seiko, and was really happy with it... for a month. Then it slipped off my wrist while I was trying to put it on. Fell about 5 feet onto a hard tile floor. The transparent caseback cracked and the watch stopped dead.

To say that I was shocked and disappointed would be putting it mildly. I'm sure the gap lies in my understanding, but I figured a watch tagged "military" wouldn't be quite this fragile. So while I consider repairing it, I'm also looking for alternatives.

I need something will, as Timex says, take a licking and keep on ticking. Something indestructible for when I don't want to be mollycoddling my watch. And certainly something that will survive a drop from this kind of modest height. Casio G-shocks immediately come to mind, but they are (usually) a bit chunky for my tastes. What did really did like about the Seiko 5 was its clean and simple design.

Does anybody know if the Citizen mentioned earlier in the thread is likely to be more rugged? Or can suggest other (tougher) alternatives with a clean and functional look and in the same price range?

I'm not particular about automatics, perhaps solar/ecodrive may be a better option for me?

And coming back to the subject of the repair... does anybody know if the glass caseback of the Seiko 5 SNZG09 can be replaced by an all-steel part? Thanks!


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## peewee102

crankcase said:


> Sooo.... I bought the Seiko, and was really happy with it... for a month. Then it slipped off my wrist while I was trying to put it on. Fell about 5 feet onto a hard tile floor. The transparent caseback cracked and the watch stopped dead.
> 
> To say that I was shocked and disappointed would be putting it mildly. I'm sure the gap lies in my understanding, but I figured a watch tagged "military" wouldn't be quite this fragile. So while I consider repairing it, I'm also looking for alternatives.
> 
> I need something will, as Timex says, take a licking and keep on ticking. Something indestructible for when I don't want to be mollycoddling my watch. And certainly something that will survive a drop from this kind of modest height. Casio G-shocks immediately come to mind, but they are (usually) a bit chunky for my tastes. What did really did like about the Seiko 5 was its clean and simple design.
> 
> Does anybody know if the Citizen mentioned earlier in the thread is likely to be more rugged? Or can suggest other (tougher) alternatives with a clean and functional look and in the same price range?
> 
> I'm not particular about automatics, perhaps solar/ecodrive may be a better option for me?
> 
> And coming back to the subject of the repair... does anybody know if the glass caseback of the Seiko 5 SNZG09 can be replaced by an all-steel part? Thanks!


Maybe a Citizen BM6400 Eco-Drive? I have both the Seiko military and the BM6400. My only complaint with both watches is the size. I just think 42mm is too big for me, so they don't get much wrist time. I too dropped the Seiko, it didn't stop running, but it started running +30 seconds fast a day. Got it regulated back to about +10 seconds fast a day. I then bought a sapphire crystal, white dial Momentum Atlas. I LOVE IT! If I had to go down to one watch (Ha!), this would be it. My only compliant with it, is I think the titanium scratches very easily. But if the Atlas does ever die, I'm going to buy another one. Plus, Momentum has outstanding customer service. I think Ccoutdoorstore.com has them on sale now.


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## johnee

A display back is a gimmick. Any issued military watch shouldn't have one. I don't know if any truly issued watches have had display backs, I hope not. 

If you like the look of the Seiko, take a look at a TSAR or GSAR. Much better design, tritium lume, is militarily issued, and can take a beating. Mine has.

You can usually find one on the sales corner here at a good deal.


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## crankcase

johnee said:


> If you like the look of the Seiko, take a look at a TSAR or GSAR. Much better design, tritium lume, is militarily issued, and can take a beating. Mine has.


Not very familiar with the GSAR and TSAR options, so I need to check : are these designations specific to Marathon, or does this include other brands as well? Searching for GSAR & TSAR, I could only come up with results for Marathon models, so I'm not sure.

Secondly, most of these seem to be quite chunky, with thick bezels like diver watches. They also seem a tad expensive for me. I would prefer a slimmer bezel design like the Seiko 5, and at a similar price point (less than $200). I found these options on the Marathon site:

General Purpose Quartz with Date - Marathon Watch

General Purpose Quartz with MaraGlo - Marathon Watch

General Purpose Quartz Type I, Class1 - Marathon Watch

Any thoughts on these..?

Thanks!

EDIT: I just realised that all of these are only rated waterproof for 30m. I would want something with at least 100m


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## samael_6978

Maybe Precista PRS-10?

I have quite few field watches, but I find myself reaching for this one more often than for others. It is inexpensive (under $200), very good quality, has somewhat military heritage, acrylic crystal (that's a big + for me, as you can buff out any scratches), 10 year battery.









Damn, I wanted to wear my Traser today, but now I will wear Precista...


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## johnee

crankcase said:


> Not very familiar with the GSAR and TSAR options, so I need to check : are these designations specific to Marathon, or does this include other brands as well? Searching for GSAR & TSAR, I could only come up with results for Marathon models, so I'm not sure.
> 
> Secondly, most of these seem to be quite chunky, with thick bezels like diver watches. They also seem a tad expensive for me. I would prefer a slimmer bezel design like the Seiko 5, and at a similar price point (less than $200). I found these options on the Marathon site:
> 
> General Purpose Quartz with Date - Marathon Watch
> 
> General Purpose Quartz with MaraGlo - Marathon Watch
> 
> General Purpose Quartz Type I, Class1 - Marathon Watch
> 
> Any thoughts on these..?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> EDIT: I just realised that all of these are only rated waterproof for 30m. I would want something with at least 100m


Marathon makes these watches to meet current military specifications. For example, the description of the last watch link says "This army wristwatch is manufactured in accordance with MIL-PRF-46374G, Type I, Class 1". You can look up that mil spec to see what it calls for, but generally, its a set of guidelines calling for a sweep second hand, 8 hour illumination, scratch resistant crystal, etc.

As far as I know, Marathon is the only company contracted to make watches for the mil specs, but I'm probably wrong.

Those watches (including TSAR/GSARs) have National Stock Numbers (NSNs) which puts them into the federal governments supply system, thus making them available for military units to purchase them for troops. They're the real deal.

You can search this pil/mil forum and find tons of info on them. People generally love the features of these watches, but the cheaper one's you identified aren't spec'ed to be "dive" watches, so they're not as durable as the TSAR/GSARs which ARE spec'ed to be dive watches. However these cheaper watches ARE much tougher than the Seiko and other military-themed watches.

Hope this helps.


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## Ventriloquist

most mechanical watches would have a problem being dropped. seiko uses display casebacks on most of their seiko 5 series afaik. if youre looking for something from citizen with not so funky date placement try this:









Citizen Men's BM6400-00E Eco-Drive Canvas Watch: Watches: Amazon.com

is below your budget of $400 at $120 and is resistant to 200m with screwdown crown.


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## crankcase

Ventriloquist said:


> most mechanical watches would have a problem being dropped. seiko uses display casebacks on most of their seiko 5 series afaik. if youre looking for something from citizen with not so funky date placement try this:
> 
> Citizen Men's BM6400-00E Eco-Drive Canvas Watch: Watches: Amazon.com
> 
> is below your budget of $400 at $120 and is resistant to 200m with screwdown crown.


Thanks for the suggestion! I couldn't find this model locally, but am checking out online sellers. I'm not specifically looking for Citizen or otherwise - the budget is my main criterion.

I also saw this Casio : Casio Men's Watch 100M Date Day Display Analog Black Resin MRW-200H-7E NEW | eBay









This is of course considerably cheaper and has a day calendar which the Citizen doesn't. But the water resist is only 100m vs the Citizen's 200m, and I don't know about the lume...

Any thoughts on this model?


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## crankcase

peewee102 said:


> Maybe a Citizen BM6400 Eco-Drive? I have both the Seiko military and the BM6400. My only complaint with both watches is the size. I just think 42mm is too big for me, so they don't get much wrist time. I too dropped the Seiko, it didn't stop running, but it started running +30 seconds fast a day. Got it regulated back to about +10 seconds fast a day. I then bought a sapphire crystal, white dial Momentum Atlas. I LOVE IT! If I had to go down to one watch (Ha!), this would be it. My only compliant with it, is I think the titanium scratches very easily. But if the Atlas does ever die, I'm going to buy another one. Plus, Momentum has outstanding customer service. I think Ccoutdoorstore.com has them on sale now.


Thanks for the suggestions! I did check out the Momentum Atlas, and would really like a Green on Green, but ccoutdoorstore.com doesn't ship to Singapore. I'm still searching for alternatives - watches as well as retailers. I did find it on bodying.sg, but the price is absolutely ridiculous (more than 225 US$), and I don't even know if that site is reliable.

How do you think the Atlas compares to the Citizen BM6400?


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## peewee102

crankcase said:


> Thanks for the suggestions! I did check out the Momentum Atlas, and would really like a Green on Green, but ccoutdoorstore.com doesn't ship to Singapore. I'm still searching for alternatives - watches as well as retailers. I did find it on bodying.sg, but the price is absolutely ridiculous (more than 225 US$), and I don't even know if that site is reliable.
> 
> How do you think the Atlas compares to the Citizen BM6400?


Maybe Amazon will ship to Singapore? I drug out the Citizen last week and wore it, but I'm back to the Atlas.


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## crankcase

peewee102 said:


> Maybe Amazon will ship to Singapore? I drug out the Citizen last week and wore it, but I'm back to the Atlas.


I hadn't thought of that! They do, for $20, which brings the total to US$155 for the Atlas. Still the cheapest I've found so far, so I'll keep them in mind.

They can't ship the Citizen to Singapore though... not sure why. Manufacturer's restrictions I guess..?


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## Alex.C

^^^^^^^^Troll alert. 

Btw, does anyone know the point of a comment like this?


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## bigdaddylove

Wow! I am really sorry to hear that bout your Seiko. I almost bought one but settled on SKX007 since I had no diver. Although exhibition backs look great on watches with decorated movements, they really don't belong on a watch that is "_designed" _and marketed to customers needing something durable.

I have both Seiko and Citizen watches in my collection. With that said, I always prefer the Seiko for fit finish and design. My Eco-drive had to have the complete electronics replaced after only about 2 or 3 years of standard use as a daily in my job as a supervisor in a library. I like the idea of a Eco-drive, but experience and preference makes me gravitate to auto or manual wind.


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## Saxo

cal..45 said:


> I have the SNZG09 and it quickly became one of my absolute favorite analog watches. The one thing that always botherd me though, is that the space between the lugs is not sandblasted (opposite to the rest of the case) but fortunately my dealer got rid of that polished parts and now the watch is entirely matt finished. I also exchanged the stock band for a desert tan maratac one-piece and this gives the watch a really nice look. The movement is known to be a rugged, reliable working horse and with a little patience you can even bring it to run within +/- 2 seconds per day. The legibility is outstanding day and night, thanks to the uncluttered dial and the infamous Seiko lumibrite.
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> I don't have any experience with that Citizen, but if I look at your picture, I must say that I don't like it. I specifically don't like the recessed position of the day/date window and also the truncated "3" looks unbalanced to me. Besides that, my experience with solar watches is not the best (way too unreliable in my book), so I either prefer a mechanical watch or a quartz watch powered by a CR20xx battery.
> 
> Note: on many pics the dial of the SNZG09 appears to be black (including mine), but the dial colour is really a darker green/olive, as you can see here:
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> cheers


Nice overview, im interrested in knowing how big your wrist is. im very interrested in this watch, but im not certain how it would look on a 6.5" wrist. dont like it when the lugs hang far over the sides. but it looks fine on your pictures.


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## cal..45

My wrist is 6.5 too, so there shouldn't be any problems for you.


cheers


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## fjblair

Ventriloquist said:


> most mechanical watches would have a problem being dropped. seiko uses display casebacks on most of their seiko 5 series afaik. if youre looking for something from citizen with not so funky date placement try this:
> 
> View attachment 964685
> 
> 
> Citizen Men's BM6400-00E Eco-Drive Canvas Watch: Watches: Amazon.com
> 
> is below your budget of $400 at $120 and is resistant to 200m with screwdown crown.


 I have the Seiko Military 7S26 and like it a lot but I have been looking at this Citizen for a while and think I must have it.


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## CCCP

I'd choose the Citizen. I have an Eco-Drive and after 7 years I'm really satisfied. Quartz is more rugged and you also never have to swap batteries...


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## LambyLamb

Have you considered a Timex? They do, in fact, take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. They have a number in the military style - the weekender, for example.


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## Mainspring13

Saxo said:


> Nice overview, im interrested in knowing how big your wrist is. im very interrested in this watch, but im not certain how it would look on a 6.5" wrist. dont like it when the lugs hang far over the sides. but it looks fine on your pictures.


I have a 6.25" wrist and it's fine. Lug to lug width is 49mm(I believe). Lugs don't hang over. I think it's the maximum I can push with my puny wrist but for a "big watch" it fits perfect on my wrist.

oh and back to OP's Q... obviously I'd choose(and have) the Seiko. great watch.


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## Okayseiko

I have a Citizen Eco Drive, a simple silvered hands and numbers and just the date at the 3 o'clock position. I usually just leave it on the windowsill so it gets enough light. But this also makes it run horrendously fast, and it needs adjustment every time I wear it. The hands and numbers sometimes disappear unless it it held at just the right angle. It is also only water resistant. I have just put down $NZ97 for a Seiko SNK381K1 (free postage) - I really want a watch I can wear every day, and which needs me as much as I need it. I like the "instrument" quality of the military Seikos, which makes them so easy to read at a glance. I never want to replace another watch battery again!


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## Okayseiko

I have a Citizen Eco Drive, a simple silvered hands and numbers and just the date at the 3 o'clock position. I usually just leave it on the windowsill so it gets enough light. But this also makes it run horrendously fast, and it needs adjustment every time I wear it. The hands and numbers sometimes disappear unless it it held at just the right angle. It is also only water resistant. I have just put down $NZ97 for a Seiko SNK381K1 (free postage) - I really want a watch I can wear every day, and which needs me as much as I need it. I like the "instrument" quality of the military Seikos, which makes them so easy to read at a glance. I never want to replace another watch battery again!


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## soopad00pa

Citizen has a new pilot that can be had for about $130 on the bay.










AW1365, I think. A few different colors but this is my fave. Sexy sexy...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## kannome

@*cal..45
*
I didn't copy your post to save on page-loading time.

I have the exact same watch (the Seiko) and the polished areas between the lugs bother me too, if I keep it I'll also have those areas beadblasted. The stainless model with bracelet has polished sides--I don't know what Seiko was thinking but the watch search I did in Japan when I bought this watch convinced me the Japanese makers are mostly trying to out-bling each other (and out-complicate their competitors dials btw).

Otherwise, I like the watch a lot. Mine is running quite fast though, I'll need to have it regulated.\

I owned the "better" version of the Citizen for a while--that means the 3 was redone so it's not as wide as the 9, but because of the day/date window it looks better. It looked to clock-y on my wrist. I think the aesthetics of the Seiko are superior.

If it had the 4R36 movement in it I'd like it that much more .

Repsonding to the comment below about Marathons, they are in a different price category and IIRC only the automatic at $1000+ has the day (not just date) display.


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## ecalzo

take a look here too.. https://www.watchuseek.com/f7/seiko-5-skx-comparison-citizen-bm8180-307453.html


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