# Please explain - price for Stowa Flieger without Logo



## Bbros

I would begin with an apology if my explanation would offend some or come across as being ignorant....but here it goes:

Like many of you who have walked this road before - I am in the process of buying my first kind of expensive watch as a way of treating myself. During my research, I have found myself being mesmerised by the beauty, simplicity, and purity of function, of the Stowa Flieger without the Logo. It does the very job that any time piece was designed for - to tell the time. Period. 

While I am quite prepared to splash-out a bit of money (even into the range of IWC, Omegas, and maybe Rolex's), I just cannot get over this.....and have been losing some sleep....hence writing on this forum. I am a scientist by background.....and somehow has a logic mindset that I can't switch off. 

The cost of the Flieger without the Logo is actually 60 Euros more than one with the Logo. Why is that?

It is the same case, the same movement, the same crown, the same strap. The dial, as far as I am concerned, is the only difference. And as far as I can gather, the B-Uhren Type A design is not proprietary or copy-righted. So why jack up the price? 

In all the years I have purchased things; items such as the same shirt or shoes with a different colour does not cost more; the same TV with different colour finish does not cost more; and just because people buy more blue pens than red pens does not make a blue pen more expensive (when they are the same pens). I accept things such as "metallic paint" on a car could cost more, because there is actually a material difference in the components of the paint itself.

So how does a Stowa without Logo makes it any different to one with a Logo? 

I am stopping myself from buying this - despite my love for it - because I feel I am being ripped off - for no explanable added material value. If I am paying more for the very reason that, perhaps, more people buy the watch without the Logo, then I am prepared to just say "stuff this". And this is the principle that is killing my wish to pay for this....even though it is, by comparison, a very reasonably priced automatic watch with a quality movement. 

I can appreciate the added price in the blue coated screws or COSC certificates. But a price diff between No Logo and with Logo is really making me frustrated.

I am happy to spend.....but can someone talk me out of this silly rationale and let me buy the watch, in peace?? 

Thanks.


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## grey17

It looks like the Flieger without the logo includes a 'German Silver Rotor' which is not on the other versions:

'The movement is a finished ETA 2824-2 and the serialnumber (0001, 0002, ....?) is inscribed on the German silver rotor, which can be seen through the sapphire crystal display back.'


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## drickster

Welcome to the forum Bangbros!

As a recent purchaser of just such a watch I can answer the qurstion as I answered it for myself....the no logo face is more "authentic" to the original, is more in demand and therefore commands a higher price. For me, it was easy, more authentic and I preferred the look, plus it really is a luxury to spend even Stowa's reasonable prices on a watch. 

(Quick aside Grey7 you can order the German silver rotor on any of them for the same price AFAIK.)

In the end, if you are cool with the logo, save the money, but at that price, for a watch, buy what you like. Enjoy it and don't sweat the small stuff.

Good luck in your hunt, and enjoy what you buy, no matter what it is!


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## cj610

I can't speak to the price difference but the 'clean dial' version is far more popular than the dial with the logo. To each their own however.........it's all personal preference.

I wouldn't worry too much about being swindled.......Stowa is highly regarded for their value. They put out nice watches at an excellent price point. Jorg could easily get a few more Euro for each of his creations. Yea, we're just that nuts...........

Good luck!


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## roseskunk

I never really noticed the price difference. A Flieger with logo was never an option for me, so I never compared them. I think they're really nice watches and I really like my Flieger- w/o a logo. Honestly, if you think this is reckless mark-up, price a Rolex... :roll:

In addition to these being nice watches, you're not going to beat their customer service. Heck if the price difference bothers you, I'd ask Jorg or Viveca directly about the pricing, I'd be curious to hear what they say too.


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## frost5532

Ive always looked at it as: logo = adversiment (in a way, expanding markets consciousness of the company anyways), no logo = no advertisement. Pay a few extra bux to make up for the fact that their name is out there a little less, makes sense to me anyways.


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## the.hatter

I think the price is justified by market demand. No logo = more desirable, thus they can get away with charging you more. A lot of companies do this, business 101. grey17 may in fact be correct though that there are subtle internal differences.

I think that watch is next on my collection list by the way! I just picked up a Laco B-type dial, so now I need a good A-dial to go with it, and a clean dial on that watch is a must for me. 

My $0.02 from other watch purchases - buy it, and once you see and wear it, you'll never regret overpaying for a clean dial.

Good luck!


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## kak1154

frost5532 said:


> Ive always looked at it as: logo = adversiment (in a way, expanding markets consciousness of the company anyways), no logo = no advertisement. Pay a few extra bux to make up for the fact that their name is out there a little less, makes sense to me anyways.


That was my initial reaction when I noticed the price difference. You are paying for the loss in advertising because the company's logo is not displayed.


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## Milesg

I'm surprised that a forum full of WIS hasn't given the correct answer.

Obviously all dials are made with the logo, the extra money you pay for the no-logo is to cover the cost of an skilled watchmaker carefully removing the logo but leaving the dial otherwise intact. ;-)


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## the.hatter

Milesg said:


> I'm surprised that a forum full of WIS hasn't given the correct answer.
> 
> Obviously all dials are made with the logo, the extra money you pay for the no-logo is to cover the cost of an skilled watchmaker carefully removing the logo but leaving the dial otherwise intact. ;-)


Ha, yea that's how they do it.


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## Manjushaka

Bullocks. There's no reason whatsoever that they can't order a bunch of dial without the logo.


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## Lencoth

Manjushaka said:


> Bullocks. There's no reason whatsoever that they can't order a bunch of dial without the logo.


Exactly. Which they do and then sell at a premium apparently. So, what's your point :think:.


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## onioncrown

o|


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## Manjushaka

Lencoth said:


> Exactly. Which they do and then sell at a premium apparently. So, what's your point :think:.


My point is that they can order a bunch of dials without the logo. Unless he was being sarcastic which I missed.


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## Lencoth

Manjushaka said:


> My point is that they can order a bunch of dials without the logo. Unless he was being sarcastic which I missed.


That's how I took it. Also, the no-logo has a "Neusilber" rotor instead of the regular one.


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## StufflerMike

The cost is mirrored by serial number engraving and german silver rotor



> The finished automatic ETA 2824-2 movement, along *with the serial number *(0001, 0002, 0003, etc.) inscribed on the *German silver rotor*, can be seen through the sapphire crystal display back


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## Bbros

Many thanks for all your support and explanation. Still none the wiser. Maybe it is the Rotor, but I read that if I wished to get the engraved Rotor - that is the one with just the word "Stowa" engraved and nothing else (which is standard on the one with the Logo - there is also an extra charge. So the whole thing bemuses me. 

Apologies if my conclusion is un-just, but I think this is simply a case of "More people buy Blue pens than Red pens, therefore Stowa charges more for Blue pens". 

My search continues and I wish you all good health.


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## StufflerMike

The Stowa Flieger Automatik with Stowa engraved rotor costs less...and they differ, see pics)










*Flieger Automatik*

When glancing at his watch, a pilot needed a quick and accurate read, be it day or night. The design of the STOWA Automatic is simple, clean and legible in any lighting. The dial is black, the blued hands and sweep are filled with superluminova, and the Arabic numerals and markers also luminescent. The movement, housed in a matt casing, is an ETA 2824-2 with 25 jewels and an engraved rotor that can be viewed through the sapphire crystal display back. Blued movement screws are included. The Airman Automatic comes with a riveted or unriveted leather strap fitted with a matt STOWA buckle. For a more authentic look, we suggest choosing the riveted strap.

*Dimensions*

The Airman Automatic is 40 mm wide and 10.20 mm thick. The strap size is 20 mm.

*Strap Options*

The Flieger Automatik can also be ordered with an "old style" strap that comes in brown or black. Like the original Flieger straps, our new "old style" straps are riveted.

*Upgrade 1*
For 210 EUR, your Flieger Autmatik can be upgraded with a COSC movement.


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## Manjushaka

stuffler said:


> The Stowa Flieger Automatik with Stowa engraved rotor costs less...and they differ, see pics)


So the left case back is the logo and the right one is the no logo?


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## Lencoth

Manjushaka said:


> So the left case back is the logo and the right one is the no logo?


Yep, just as you can find it on their website.


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## StufflerMike

Manjushaka said:


> So the left case back is the logo and the right one is the no logo?


Yes. The web site is very clear about that I think.


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## Sponon

The no-date also feature the onion crown wich is what they used on the flieger from the 40s...


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## Milesg

Manjushaka said:


> Bullocks. There's no reason whatsoever that they can't order a bunch of dial without the logo.


Sorry, I should point out that my previous post was a joke. :roll:


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## Bbros

Sponon said:


> The no-date also feature the onion crown wich is what they used on the flieger from the 40s...


If I can point out that:

The Flieger Automatic:

+ DATE 
+ Logo 
+ Onion Crown

is 60 Euros cheaper

I rest my case.


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## Lencoth

Bbros said:


> If I can point out that:
> 
> The Flieger Automatic:
> 
> + DATE
> + Logo
> + Onion Crown
> 
> is 60 Euros cheaper
> 
> I rest my case.


There have been people in this thread who sincerely have been trying to aid in explaining the price difference. You just brush that off, because you started out feeling "ripped-off". Better rest your case indeed.


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## Pekka_L

Bbros said:


> If I can point out that:
> 
> The Flieger Automatic:
> 
> + DATE
> + Logo
> + Onion Crown
> 
> is 60 Euros cheaper
> 
> I rest my case.


I sincerely fail to see the case you rested.

But still - looking through the Stowa (and Basel2010) website the "DATE" feature obviously has no impact in pricing - both flieger logo and no logo cost exactly the same wehether you take it with or without date. Apart from the excistence of the Stowa text in front, the only other differing features are looking at you through the caseback. The rotor material is different and the texts on the rotor are different.

Also, if my eyes serve me correctly, there are more blued screws on the "no logo" movement.

Any difference in the amount of work/price of materials between those visible differences might be worthy the price difference. Or not. Which is why I do no understand your case - I am not aware of any product, be it watches or anything else, with completely transparent pricing. Either you accept that differing products are priced differently for whatever reason, or you do not buy anything at all. Period.

(edited typos)


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## Lencoth

Pekka_L said:


> I sincerely fail to see the case you rested.
> 
> But still - looking throught the Stowa (and Basel2010) website the "DATE" feature obviously has no impact in pricing - both flieger logo and no logo cost exactly the same wehether you take it with or without date. Apart from the excistence of the Stowa text in front, the only other differing features are looking at you through the caseback. The rotor material is different and the texts on the rotor are different.
> 
> Also, if my eyes serve me correctly, there are more blued screws on the "no logo" movement.
> 
> Any difference in the amount of work/price of materials between those visible differences might be worthy the price difference. Or not. Which is why I do no understand your case - I am not aware of any product, be it watches or anything else, with completely transparent pricing. Either you accept that differing products are priced differently for whatever reason, or you do not buy anything at all. Period.
> 
> (edited typos)


+1

Don't think he made his case at all, just hopes he rests it.


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## onioncrown

Bbros said:


> If I can point out that:
> 
> The Flieger Automatic:
> 
> + DATE
> + Logo
> + Onion Crown
> 
> is 60 Euros cheaper
> 
> I rest my case.


Flieger without logo has an onion crown. The flieger without logo is also more authentic to the original flieger watch, which to me and many others makes it more valuable and attractive. Sounds like this watch is not for you as you place no value on the watch being more true to it's pedigree. Obviously, many others do not feel this way and are willing to pay the $60 more for the authenticity.


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## roseskunk

I have an old friend that is so frugal, he picks his vacations based on where he can get a good deal on a rental car, buys the cheapest thing on the menu, and only buys clothes that are on sale. Once we vacationed together at a national park. Just outside the park were four t-shirt shops, and he wanted to buy a t-shirt for himself. He not only went into each shop trying to find the cheapest t-shirt, he actually went into each shop twice. We must have wasted a good hour of our vacation so he could save a nickel on a shirt. 

For some reason, I'm reminded of him... :roll:

Seriously, if you're going to question watch prices, why in the world would you start with Stowa?! You're talking about a 70 dollar difference on a watch that many feel the price is well-justified. You could just as easily say that the Airman with the logo is a screaming deal, buy that one, and tell all your friends what a sucker the rest of us are for paying more for less. Would you be happier if they raised the price of the logo watch to match the no logo? Look, it's your money, do what you want. I just pity the people you go on vacation with... :-s

Finally, you really can just email Jorg or Viveca and ask them to explain the pricing. Perhaps there's something that we're missing, perhaps not. Either way, I'm much happier doing business with a small company that I can actually speak with the owner regarding issues related to their watches, than many of the other, larger companies who sell watches with way over-inflated pricing, and whose after sales service is less than stellar, to say the least.


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## StufflerMike

Bbros said:


> If I can point out that:
> 
> The Flieger Automatic:
> 
> + DATE
> + Logo
> + Onion Crown
> 
> is 60 Euros cheaper
> 
> I rest my case.


Most of those who participated here in this thread and tried to explain why knew that already. Thanks for resting your case, appreciated.


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## Bbros

As I said, from the outset - my thread meant no offence. So apologise if it did. 

I believe I have the answer I am looking for - so thank you for all those who contributed to this thread. 

The case remains rested - for me.


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## JCW1980

I completely agree.

This price difference has always confused me, but Stowa seems to have such a great company/customer-service/value/etc. that I always just trusted that there is some good reason for it.

Bbros mentions being willing to buy Rolex or IWC... if you want to talk about paying a 60 Euro premium depending on a logo, in the same message with the likes of these watch companies, it just seems like splitting hairs to me...I mean, talk about paying for a logo!

And, seriously, we can all go round & round in circles, or just email Jorg. I would have done that by now, except that I like the logo, so I don't mind either way. However, for curiosity's sake, I wouldn't mind knowing _the official_ reason.

I love this forum! The conversation can be so entertaining. :-d


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## vincesf

Hate to beat a dead horse, but it all comes down to marketing, and pricing has little to do with the actual content or component cost of a watch. Watches that deviate from the norm, even by deleting something, such as the logo in this instance. usually cost more. You don't need to understand it and you certainly don't even need to buy it (as you have chosen here). Certainly buying patterns may eventually change charging practices, but don't hold your breath. Too bad really, as it is a nice watch, but there are many other watches out there to choose from.


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## Bbros

I have asked my friend to post a question to Stowa about this specific price differential between the Flieger with Logo and one without.

Stowa has very kindly responded, and confirmed that the difference is due to the use of a Handmade rotor, engraved using German Silver, with unique serial numbers.

Thankyou - this is a crystal clear justification for the price difference and thanks Stowa for their confirmation. 
..........

Lets take for granted this is true, then it introduces a more intriguing question.....here it goes:

I am told that for all purchasers of Stowa Fliegers with a COSC movement, the certified movement will all come with a beautifully engraved Rotor - what they call a B-Rotor - which has "Stowa 25 Jewels....." in gold coloured fonts, blue coated screws, decorated metal work, with the COSC serial number engraving also visible. This cost is 230 Euros in addition. I have attached this photo (it should be the first attachment)

For those who can do their maths in their head, you will notice by now is that the price for each version (Logo and "no Logo") of the watch using the COSC movement, are still 60 Euros different, but the Rotors are the same in both cases - the B-Rotor. Now in this instance, the 60 Euros difference CANNOT be explained by the difference in Rotors.

So my suspicion still holds - that Stowa had jacked up the price of one of the two same watches, which is different only by the printing (or omission) of a Logo, simply because the one without the Logo, I suspect, is more commonly sold. (I would dispute any suggestions that Stowa would manually remove the printed words "Stowa" and "Made in Germany" from its dial just to create a No Logo design. They have almost certainly ordered 2 different prints from the dial makers).

For those who are happy believers that the difference in price is due to the German Silver rotor, then this is just a warning that for those who are about to buy a Stowa Flieger, without Logo, and with a COSC movement, that you are actually paying 60 Euros extra for nothing. And 60 Euros is not nothing.

It is not any of my business how Stowa sets is pricing strategy. but as a consumer, I would just like to know what I am paying for. If I am paying extra or a metal strap over a leather strap....that's fine....as least there is an explanation.

My only issue in this case is not that the price is high, not that the material quality is questionable, not the accuracy........but it is just that it has never been clear to the consumer what explains the price difference.

I love the watch - don't get me wrong. As I said before - the history, simplicity, boldness, and purity in function, is absolutely mesmerising.


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## persco

wow.


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## onioncrown

Bbros said:


> I have asked my friend to post a question to Stowa about this specific price differential between the Flieger with Logo and one without.
> 
> Stowa has very kindly responded, and confirmed that the difference is due to the use of a Handmade rotor, engraved using German Silver, with unique serial numbers.
> 
> Thankyou - this is a crystal clear justification for the price difference and thanks Stowa for their confirmation.
> ..........
> 
> Lets take for granted this is true, then it introduces a more intriguing question.....here it goes:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am told that for all purchasers of Stowa Fliegers with a COSC movement, the certified movement will all come with a beautifully engraved Rotor - what they call a B-Rotor - which has "Stowa 25 Jewels....." in gold coloured fonts, blue coated screws, decorated metal work, with the COSC serial number engraving also visible. This cost is 230 Euros in addition. I have attached this photo (it should be the first attachment)
> 
> For those who can do their maths in their head, you will notice by now is that the price for each version (Logo and "no Logo") of the watch using the COSC movement, are still 60 Euros different, but the Rotors are the same in both cases - the B-Rotor. Now in this instance, the 60 Euros difference CANNOT be explained by the difference in Rotors.
> 
> So my suspicion still holds - that Stowa had jacked up the price of one of the two same watches, which is different only by the printing (or omission) of a Logo, simply because the one without the Logo, I suspect, is more commonly sold. (I would dispute any suggestions that Stowa would manually remove the printed words "Stowa" and "Made in Germany" from its dial just to create a No Logo design. They have almost certainly ordered 2 different prints from the dial makers).
> 
> For those who are happy believers that the difference in price is due to the German Silver rotor, then this is just a warning that for those who are about to buy a Stowa Flieger, without Logo, and with a COSC movement, that you are actually paying 60 Euros extra for nothing. And 60 Euros is not nothing.
> 
> It is not any of my business how Stowa sets is pricing strategy. but as a consumer, I would just like to know what I am paying for. If I am paying extra or a metal strap over a leather strap....that's fine....as least there is an explanation.
> 
> My only issue in this case is not that the price is high, not that the material quality is questionable, not the accuracy........but it is just that it has never been clear to the consumer what explains the price difference.
> 
> I love the watch - don't get me wrong. As I said before - the history, simplicity, boldness, and purity in function, is absolutely mesmerising.


I have an idea for you. Buy the Flieger with the logo, remove the crystal and paint over the Stowa with black paint. Then, replace the crystal and laugh all the way to the bank.


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## Bbros

onioncrown said:


> I have an idea for you. Buy the Flieger with the logo, remove the crystal and paint over the Stowa with black paint. Then, replace the crystal and laugh all the way to the bank.


Thanks Onioncrown - this reply has just made my day! Hahaha.....love it.


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## StufflerMike

Bbros said:


> I have asked my friend to post a question to Stowa about this specific price differential between the Flieger with Logo and one without.




Why not asking directly ? No guts ?



> Stowa has very kindly responded, and confirmed that the difference is due to the use of a Handmade rotor, engraved using German Silver, with unique serial numbers.


You have been told that here on the forum already iirc.


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## Omar Hawk

Dear Bbros,
I guess the difference between the Flieger automatic logo and non logo has been clarified (hand made German Silver rotor and engraving).
Now you question the difference between the Flieger automatic logo and non logo, both with COSC movement. Well, it's still the rotor. When you order a Flieger automatic non logo (I think) you will get the better movement equipped with the hand made German Silver rotor.
(The STOWA team may confirm whether this is actually the case).

What actually bothers me a bit is that you indirectly accuse STOWA being unfair in their pricing and that they are treating their customers unethically (especially in your last posting).
In my view you won't find a watch making company which is more frank and open with their customers (even with bad news) than STOWA. To proof this go ahead and ask Rolex or IWC or any other "big name" in the industry how they make up their pricing for a certain model. I bet you won't even get a reply to this question.
Another proof: I remember a posting of Joerg some years ago in the Flieger Original thread. He disclosed that he somehow lost some of the golden bridges for the Limited Edition and offered various alternatives to the people whose orders were affected. Can you imagine this, there is a guy saying: folks, I simply lost some components of the movement in the manufacturing floor........ He could have said: issues with the supplier, DHL or FedEx lost the shipment which contained the parts or any other blabla - but no, he said: I lost them.

I can't imagine that any other company communicates as frank and open like STOWA.

Regarding unfair pricing.... well, as some others already said, I guess STOWA is the least company whose pricing can be challenged. I think you won't find a better price/performance relationship in the watch market than with STOWA products. So what's the point discussing 60 Euros??

Just my 2 Cents.......

Regards, Omar


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## Blame

stuffler said:


> Why not asking directly ? No guts ?


If I can direct your attention to the forum rules and guidelines:

*2* Members will be kind and courteous, and respectful to other members and the moderators. No direct or indirect personal attacks or insults of any kind will be allowed. Posts which antagonize, belittle or humiliate other members and/or the moderators will not be tolerated ...

The guy is just asking some questions here, if he hasn't got a satisfactory answer, isn't that what this forum is for? I remember a similar thread not long ago about disparity between European and American prices. I seem to recall a lot of you had concerns then. Are the concerns of one man worth less than the concerns of many? Or is that a little too Star Trekky?!!


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## kak1154

Sorry to go against the majority, but you guys have to admit, Bbros has a point. Two identical watches, one with logo and one without, that have a price difference. Whether it's any of our business or not is another question, and he has admitted that Stowa's pricing strategy is not his business. I think he has asked the question in basically the most respectful way possible, and no accusations are being made.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the pricing, but I support a consumer that is doing his research and asking a legitimate question regarding what he is getting for his hard-earned dollars (or euros).

(I still think the difference has to do with the loss of advertising by not having the logo on the face. Like others have said, the consumer decides whether or not the authenticity of the original flieger design is worth the extra money.)


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## pabboy

Bbros said:


> I have asked my friend to post a question to Stowa about this specific price differential between the Flieger with Logo and one without.



You cannot contact Stowa directly? :think:




Bbros said:


> *I am told *that for all purchasers of Stowa Fliegers with a COSC movement, the certified movement will all come with a beautifully engraved Rotor - what they call a B-Rotor - which has "Stowa 25 Jewels....."




Who told you that?

Flieger with COSC movement without Logo comes with the German silver rotor. Here's an example: http://forums2.watchuseek.com/showpost.php?p=1359009&postcount=102


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## onioncrown

kak1154 said:


> Sorry to go against the majority, but you guys have to admit, Bbros has a point. Two identical watches, one with logo and one without, that have a price difference. Whether it's any of our business or not is another question, and he has admitted that Stowa's pricing strategy is not his business. I think he has asked the question in basically the most respectful way possible, and no accusations are being made.
> 
> I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the pricing, but I support a consumer that is doing his research and asking a legitimate question regarding what he is getting for his hard-earned dollars (or euros).
> 
> (I still think the difference has to do with the loss of advertising by not having the logo on the face. Like others have said, the consumer decides whether or not the authenticity of the original flieger design is worth the extra money.)


I believe it's Econ 101. These are two separate products priced, not based on each other, but on demand in the marketplace. One fact missing is how many of each watch have been sold. If the no logo watch sells more, over the same time frame, then the demand is driving the higher price. Ultimately, it's each consumer's choice which watch to purchase, if any.


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## dc_in_sf

kak1154 said:


> Sorry to go against the majority, but you guys have to admit, Bbros has a point. Two identical watches, one with logo and one without, that have a price difference. Whether it's any of our business or not is another question, and he has admitted that Stowa's pricing strategy is not his business. I think he has asked the question in basically the most respectful way possible, and no accusations are being made.


But the watches are *not* identical, the no-logo variant has the custom rotor.

I would imagine that Stowa buys the ebauches from ETA complete (i.e. with a rotor). The custom engraving on the COSC variant of the rotor is probably done for all COSC movements since the same movement is used in nearly all (if not all, can't be bothered to check) Stowa automatic watches.

When the movement is installed in a no-logo variant, the existing rotor (plain in the case of a non-cosc, Stowa engraved in the case of a COSC) is removed and replaced with the custom german silver rotor. The existing rotor becomes at best a spare part so this is an additional cost over the logo version.

Whether it is worth 60 Euro is something that the buyer has to decide for themselves, but I don't think there is any weird conspiracy on behalf of Stowa to game the system.


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## pegon

To put it this way Bbros, if you came to my store and wanted to buy something with that attitude, i would personally show you the way out again.

Edited by moderator, violation of rules & guidelines


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## StufflerMike

OP wrote "I have asked my friend to post a question to Stowa" Wouldn't you agree that it would be more honest to ask the question yourself and not to hide behind a smokescreen. Not upright imho.
However thanks for calling up the rules & guidelines.


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## kak1154

onioncrown said:


> I believe it's Econ 101. These are two separate products priced, not based on each other, but on demand in the marketplace. One fact missing is how many of each watch have been sold. If the no logo watch sells more, over the same time frame, then the demand is driving the higher price. Ultimately, it's each consumer's choice which watch to purchase, if any.


Agreed. I believe that's what I said, essentially. Stowa has the right to price however they want, based on demand, advertising, or the flip of a coin if they so desire. The consumer decides if an item is worth the cost. The consumer also has a right to try to understand the prices of the items he is considering buying.



dc_in_sf said:


> But the watches are *not* identical, the no-logo variant has the custom rotor.
> 
> When the movement is installed in a no-logo variant, the existing rotor (plain in the case of a non-cosc, Stowa engraved in the case of a COSC) is removed and replaced with the custom german silver rotor. The existing rotor becomes at best a spare part so this is an additional cost over the logo version.


I based that part of my reply on the fact that any Stowa COSC watch, logo or no logo, comes with the German silver rotor (based on Bbros last post). If this is incorrect, I retract that part. I haven't seen any proof in either direction. We know that all of the COSC rotors are custom engraved, but are they all German silver?

Regardless, I still support a consumer that does his research, and I'm surprised that everyone is jumping down OP's throat for asking a question that, so far, has been difficult to answer.


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## dc_in_sf

kak1154 said:


> I based that part of my reply on the fact that any Stowa COSC watch, logo or no logo, comes with the German silver rotor (based on Bbros last post). If this is incorrect, I retract that part. I haven't seen any proof in either direction. We know that all of the COSC rotors are custom engraved, but are they all German silver?


The COSC rotor looks like this










The Non COSC rotor:










Hard to see in the image but the non cosc rotor doesn't have the extra finishing that the COSC rotor has.

The german silver rotor










This is a different shape to the regular 2824 rotors, has the additional text and is made from "german silver" which is a silvery alloy containing no silver and similiar to brass.

All pictures direct from the Stowa web site.


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## Bbros

Thanks DC for the Pics - and don't forget to mention that on the COSC movement, there is a COSC specific serial number engraved onto the 2824 movement metalwork itself, which corresponds to a unique serial number on the COSC certificate. Nice.

I just wish to use this opportunity to apologise if my thread have generated a level of animosity within the Stowa community. I also like to thank a few of you who have shown support for my cause. Especially for Mike, I appreciate that you have already pointed out the material difference in a much earlier respond. (I didn't disregard that.....I just wasn't too sure if you spoke officially for Stowa or you were just providing a speculative answer - sorry anyway).

One thing that is now clearer to me.......

Irrespective of whether the omission of the "Stowa" Logo and "Made in Germany" from the dial are worth 60 Euros or not, or whether the German Silver Rotor justifies the added demand in price, will be a personal conclusion. I don't think Stowa or anyone in the forum in the end actually have explained this fully (I have already explained myself about this point in my last response.....and all the info I have obtained, again, comes from my friend who is currently corresponding with Stowa). There is a reason why I have gone through "a friend": first he recommended me to look at this pilot watch by Stowa, and second I have not ruled myself out from buying one. There is still that chance that I may need to make a friendly contact with Jorg and he might kick me out the door if he remember me!! I don't think he knows me yet. But whatever the real answer is......it is not that relevant anymore....this all really just started as an academic curiosity about an interesting observation......that's all.

Having said this.....taking a look around what is in the market now, one of my conclusion is that the level of Jorg's detailed level of attention and workmanship that has gone into this model to create an impression of a watch that is as close as possible (or what some die-hards call "homage") to a war-time time-keeper, and to balance this war-time ruggedness with the real and practical needs of our modern day working society, and finally keeping all this within a reasonable price fior many of us.......most probably justifies the premium.

I have got to give my respect to Jorg - on brand loyalty - some of you guys I can see are prepared to take a bullet for the man at the drop of a hat.

I can accept that we live in a real world where there are staff to salary and maintenence bills to pay to run a watch making factory. And given the direction the Euro-nations are heading, a little bit more taxation income for the government is not necessarily a bad thing. So I will not complain anymore about the price hike.

I can only speak for myself. Buying a new watch is not a hobby nor a fashion accessory for me. I am not wealthy enough where I am happy to keep expensive watches in my cabinet collecting dust nor do I have urges that tells me "I gotta have that". But I have worked hard enough to justify a watch nice enough on my wrist to tell people this very point. My current watch is older than me in age (and I am not young) - it still keeps time but not very well. But one thing for sure......after this next purchase, I will not be buying another watch.








The search continues......


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## Lencoth

Bbros said:


> Thanks DC for the Pics - and don't forget to mention that on the COSC movement, there is a COSC specific serial number engraved onto the 2824 movement metalwork itself, which corresponds to a unique serial number on the COSC certificate. Nice. ......etc. ad infinitum


I thought you rested your case?


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## StufflerMike

Bbros said:


> ....and don't forget to mention that on the COSC movement, there is a COSC specific serial number engraved onto the 2824 movement metalwork itself, which corresponds to a unique serial number on the COSC certificate. Nice......


FYI: You will find the movement no. and the certificate no. on the COSC certificate. IIRC there is no unique serial no as such - however the movement no. is unique.


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## NervousXtian

Pretty clear the price diff is in the finishing of the movement. That IS something, whether you think it's worth 60euros is up to you, but to claim they are the exact same watch minus the logo is false and ignorant.


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## Guest

NervousXtian said:


> Pretty clear the price diff is in the finishing of the movement. That IS something, whether you think it's worth 60euros is up to you, but to claim they are the exact same watch minus the logo is false and ignorant.


Oh come on!! Have just read this entire thread and I simply cannot believe the level of hostility directed at the OP!!! Iwould say that you "staunch defenders" of the Stowa brand may well have cost the company a customer. I was seriously considering purchasing either a seatime or a MO but am now having second thoughts as it seems that Stowa customers act as though in some kind of quasi-religious cult!
Good work guys!


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## pilotsnoopy

highway61 said:


> Oh come on!! Have just read this entire thread and I simply cannot believe the level of hostility directed at the OP!!! Iwould say that you "staunch defenders" of the Stowa brand may well have cost the company a customer. I was seriously considering purchasing either a seatime or a MO but am now having second thoughts as it seems that Stowa customers act as though in some kind of quasi-religious cult!
> Good work guys!


bye bye........


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## Lencoth

highway61 said:


> Good work guys!


You're welcome.


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## StufflerMike

highway61 said:


> Oh come on!! Have just read this entire thread and I simply cannot believe the level of hostility directed at the OP!!! Iwould say that you "staunch defenders" of the Stowa brand may well have cost the company a customer. I was seriously considering purchasing either a seatime or a MO but am now having second thoughts as it seems that Stowa customers act as though in some kind of quasi-religious cult!
> Good work guys!


A bit strange imho. You are blaming STOWA for their customers` "quasi-religious cult". Most of these - if not all - bought a Stowa because of the quality Stowa provides with every watch. Stowa is a highly recommended brand - not only here but also on TZ.UK, equationoftime, timezone et all.

If quality does not matter you can go for any other watch on this lovely planet.

I am profoundly convinced that Stowa can cope with one lost customer. However I am also convinced that the time will come you regret not having bought the MO/Seatime.


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## Guest

stuffler said:


> A bit strange imho. You are blaming STOWA for their customers` "quasi-religious cult". Most of these - if not all - bought a Stowa because of the quality Stowa provides with every watch. Stowa is a highly recommended brand - not only here but also on TZ.UK, equationoftime, timezone et all.
> 
> If quality does not matter you can go for any other watch on this lovely planet.
> 
> I am profoundly convinced that Stowa can cope with one lost customer. However I am also convinced that the time will come you regret not having bought the MO/Seatime.


I do not doubt the quality of Stowa watches for one second! Though I am sure you will agree Stowa is not the ONLY retailer of high quality and outstanding value watches! As for the loss of one customer , I would suggest it is in fact two since I don't think the OP will be buying either:-d
I simply cannot understand why so many people became so hostile (with one or two honourable exceptions!) towards this poor guy who asked a perfectly reasonable question which must have occured to many others!
Thanks for your reply and your concern as to my possibly regret filled future! ;-)


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## dc_in_sf

highway61 said:


> Oh come on!! Have just read this entire thread and I simply cannot believe the level of hostility directed at the OP!!! Iwould say that you "staunch defenders" of the Stowa brand may well have cost the company a customer. I was seriously considering purchasing either a seatime or a MO but am now having second thoughts as it seems that Stowa customers act as though in some kind of quasi-religious cult!
> Good work guys!


With respect to anonymous internet forums this is just the nature of the beast. We could be discussing cupcake frosting and you are guaranteed to have a few folk who would act as if the world would end if you suggested chocolate was better than vanilla 

Buy the watch, not the forum


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## pegon

highway61 said:


> I do not doubt the quality of Stowa watches for one second! Though I am sure you will agree Stowa is not the ONLY retailer of high quality and outstanding value watches! As for the loss of one customer , I would suggest it is in fact two since I don't think the OP will be buying either:-d
> I simply cannot understand why so many people became so hostile (with one or two honourable exceptions!) towards this poor guy who asked a perfectly reasonable question which must have occured to many others!
> Thanks for your reply and your concern as to my possibly regret filled future! ;-)


Well, he came here only to argue anyway. In my opinion, a customer like him will waste a lot of your time, while adding little to your revenue. Better to be rid of him fast, than let him linger.


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## Statius

highway61 said:


> I do not doubt the quality of Stowa watches for one second! Though I am sure you will agree Stowa is not the ONLY retailer of high quality and outstanding value watches! As for the loss of one customer , I would suggest it is in fact two since I don't think the OP will be buying either:-d
> I simply cannot understand why so many people became so hostile (with one or two honourable exceptions!) towards this poor guy who asked a perfectly reasonable question which must have occured to many others!
> Thanks for your reply and your concern as to my possibly regret filled future! ;-)


I do see what you're saying. It's the same for every brand of everything. People will always be like that. I write off the extreme fan-boys and the extreme detractors and stick to the middle road. Stowa is a great brand. Can't wait for my Antea KS (nevermind that it costs more than the other Anteas even though it's smaller!:-d)


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## NervousXtian

highway61 said:


> Oh come on!! Have just read this entire thread and I simply cannot believe the level of hostility directed at the OP!!! Iwould say that you "staunch defenders" of the Stowa brand may well have cost the company a customer. I was seriously considering purchasing either a seatime or a MO but am now having second thoughts as it seems that Stowa customers act as though in some kind of quasi-religious cult!
> Good work guys!


I don't see hostility, I just think it's unfair to say they are the exact same watch minus a logo.. and taking off the logo shouldn't cost more. It's not the same exact watch, the crown is different and the movement is finished in a different way. Again, it's up to you to decide which you prefer, and if one is worth more than the other.. but the logo is clearly not just removed and the watch marked up $60 euros.


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## Guest

NervousXtian said:


> I don't see hostility, I just think it's unfair to say they are the exact same watch minus a logo.. and taking off the logo shouldn't cost more. It's not the same exact watch, the crown is different and the movement is finished in a different way. Again, it's up to you to decide which you prefer, and if one is worth more than the other.. but the logo is clearly not just removed and the watch marked up $60 euros.


well slowly my faith in the rational nature of stowa buyers is being restored
with the exception of the above obviously;-)


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## StufflerMike

Not sure you will cope with the wait.....



> ........ in stowa terms that would be ultra quick!!!! hehehe.........


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## NervousXtian

highway61 said:


> well slowly my faith in the rational nature of stowa buyers is being restored
> with the exception of the above obviously;-)


I'd love for you to point out what is hostile in my post? Is what I said un-true, or belittling the OP?


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## Lencoth

NervousXtian said:


> I'd love for you to point out what is hostile in my post? Is what I said un-true, or belittling the OP?


Don't worry NervousXtian, the problem is really not on your side ;-).


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## Guest

now on that we ARE totally in agreement. I could not see myself ordering a Stowa until they gain some control over the waiting time. That MO is a beeeaautiful watch though!


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## Guest

NervousXtian said:


> I'd love for you to point out what is hostile in my post? Is what I said un-true, or belittling the OP?


I think calling the OP 'false and ignorant' would count as hostile...:think:


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## StufflerMike

highway61 said:


> now on that we ARE totally in agreement. I could not see myself ordering a Stowa until they gain some control over the waiting time. That MO is a beeeaautiful watch though!


If you can't wait that's fine. You should not waste much thought on ordering a Damasko then. :-d


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## Guest

stuffler said:


> If you can't wait that's fine. You should not waste much thought on ordering a Damasko then. :-d


:-d, indeed!! Do Damaskos even exist?? More of a myth than a reality I'd say!! ;-)


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## StufflerMike

highway61 said:


> :-d, indeed!! Do Damaskos even exist?? More of a myth than a reality I'd say!! ;-)


Sure they exist and they have lately launched an in-house movement woth an overall investment of app. 3m Euro. Waiting for the first from Steinhart :-d:-d


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## drickster

dc_in_sf said:


> With respect to anonymous internet forums this is just the nature of the beast. We could be discussing cupcake frosting and you are guaranteed to have a few folk who would act as if the world would end if you suggested chocolate was better than vanilla
> 
> Buy the watch, not the forum


For the record, the world would end if someone said Funfetti frosting was not the best....:-d:-d:-d:-d


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## Guest

drickster said:


> For the record, the world would end if someone said Funfetti frosting was not the best....:-d:-d:-d:-d


 Good to see some laughter returning to this thread!:-!


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## Guest

stuffler said:


> Sure they exist and they have lately launched an in-house movement woth an overall investment of app. 3m Euro. Waiting for the first from Steinhart :-d:-d


Now now don't be cheeky!!!;-)
I guess the Damasko movement is the A35? How on Earth did they manage that much investment when selling about 3 watches/decade??:-d:-d


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## StufflerMike

highway61 said:


> Now now don't be cheeky!!!;-)
> I guess the Damasko movement is the A35? How on Earth did they manage that much investment when selling about 3 watches/decade??:-d:-d


You will find the answer by using the search function!


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## NervousXtian

highway61 said:


> I think calling the OP 'false and ignorant' would count as hostile...:think:


I implore you to look up the definition of ignorant. The watch is very similar in design, but has a few upgrades, as mentioned.

It's a beautiful piece, and one on my "want" list, but the wait has me balking on ordering one right now. Hoping to find a LNIB for a good price that I can get sooner, as I'm no good at waiting. :-!


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## Guest

stuffler said:


> You will find the answer by using the search function!


 oh no I won't!:-d just quite a few other posts asking the same question....;-)
still, one day Damaskos will appear in stock on the Timefactors site and one will be mine!!


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## StufflerMike

> oh no I won't! just quite a few other posts asking the same question....


If you do not want to know or to read where the money is from please do not ask.


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## Guest

stuffler said:


> If you do not want to know or to read where the money is from please do not ask.


what I meant was the answer is proving somewhat elusive
you seem to have some issues with people who do not agree with you constantly, try to remember that we are all here for enjoyment :-!


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## pilotsnoopy

highway61 said:


> what I meant was the answer is proving somewhat elusive
> you seem to have some issues with people who do not agree with you constantly, try to remember that we are all here for enjoyment :-!


get a life...if you choose not to see what mike has to answer time and again and not just to you...then what is the point of asking? .... stirrer?


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## brainless

@highway61:



> "...try to remember that we are all here for enjoyment"


Oh yes, you are right!

But we all are here for *our* enjoyment - not for your's,

Volker ;-)


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## Guest

pilotsnoopy said:


> get a life...if you choose not to see what mike has to answer time and again and not just to you...then what is the point of asking? .... stirrer?


not a stirrer at all....I however DO have a lif e and having spent some time searching for the solution to the Damasko question decided I had more interesting things to do.
As for the tone of your response..it leaves something to be desired.....


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## Guest

brainless said:


> @highway61:
> 
> Oh yes, you are right!
> 
> But we all are here for *our* enjoyment - not for your's,
> 
> Volker ;-)


Ah so I am to be excluded from the group deriving enjoyment from discussing a passion for watches which should override any disagreements we may have...nice!:-(


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## Blame

highway61 said:


> Ah so I am to be excluded from the group deriving enjoyment from discussing a passion for watches which should override any disagreements we may have...nice!:-(


Yes!! ;-) But I propose an amicable settlement. All those here who have more than one Stowa shall kindly and gladly give up their excess watches to those who have none. And since Volker has at least four, I'd like dibs on either his MA no date or his MOLE! highway - I believe he has a roman MO too if you want to get in ahead of the crowd! :-d


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## StufflerMike

Not sure Volker will agree.:-d:-d


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## brainless

highway61 said:


> not a stirrer at all....I however DO have a lif e and having spent some time searching for the solution to the Damasko question decided I had more interesting things to do.
> As for the tone of your response..*it leaves something to be desired.....*


What are you missing? Clarity??

Volker ;-)


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## brainless

Mike is right, Blame is not,


Volker ;-)


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## brainless

highway61 said:


> Ah so I am to be excluded from the group deriving enjoyment from discussing a passion for watches which should override any disagreements we may have...nice!:-(


Maybe you misunderstood my post: I don't and I won't exclude anyone from here.

I am always in for a discussion about passion for watches, but not for a quarrel about a dial with a logo vs. a dial without a logo.

Come on and start the discussion you mentioned above.

Volker ;-)


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## Guest

brainless said:


> Maybe you misunderstood my post: I don't and I won't exclude anyone from here.
> 
> I am always in for a discussion about passion for watches, but not for a quarrel about a dial with a logo vs. a dial without a logo.
> 
> Come on and start the discussion you mentioned above.


:-!
wasn't even my argument (if that is the right word!) to begin with, just thought people were being a bit harsh on the OP
as for me I'm still struggling with the MO/seatime/prodiver decision! anyone know of likely colour dials on the divers...might sway my decision;-)


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## Ananda

interesting read... i'm still not sure i understand why the non-logo dial is 60 more. i'm also pretty sure i don't really care. lol.


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## ZhekaZhuk

what so hard to grasp.....

No Logo Flieger Regular or COSC movement

Both comes standard with:
1. No logo dial 
2. German Silver Rotor (with the serial number 0001, 0002,etc )

which IMHO is enough to add 60 to price...

here is my NO LOGO COSC:


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## Bbros

Thanks ZhekaZhuk - your sample pictures have now fully explained the (my) observation of what I considered a pricing anomaly!! (I am sure 4000+ people out there probably are saying "I told you so" - buy hey that's what the forum is here for.....a bit of healthy debate). 

(see my earlier post) One additional piece of info I received which I think added to my confusion was that (I am told indirectly) all COSC movements for the Flieger comes standard with the "Stowa" engraved Rotor (what they call the "Rotor-B") - a assumed fact which you have now valiantly dismissed with your watch. 

So in summary, your evidence confirms that the pricing difference is, indeed, based on the use of a hand-made German Silver rotor, over a ?possibly less refined Rotor-B. If only Stowa had themselves marketed this clearly on their website, it could have saved a lot of analysis. 

But all is not lost I don't think, as this forum clearly demonstrated that it functions effectively by helping answer questions by those who care, for those who care. Secondly, what has really inspired me more than anything else in the world of horology, is the loyalty you guys have expressed for this brand - and clearly a testimony to Jorg that he is doing something along the right lines. It is a worthwhile lesson for any business institution to take away. 

As for me, however, I have come to conclude that, for my preference, Stowa Flieger is not versatile enough to play the added, albeit important, role as the dress watch I so long for in a tool watch. I have seen many lovely pictures out there of you guys with your Flieger watches - but no, I don't think it has made-the-cut to wear with a business suit. It just seems out of place. But I give it full marks for your jeans-and-tee shirt, or smart casual weekend wear. 

So my personal conclusion is that my investment will not take me where I want it to go - and as I said earlier, purchasing a watch is not a fashion accessory where the watch serves only on particular occassions. It has to serve a purpose, and that purpose is broad in my life. The horological significance of the mechanical movenent, along with the versatile visual and functional appeal of the time-keeper, to be appreciated over all the waking hours of my life, is how I judge my value on investment. 

I truely believe the Flieger is a beautiful thing, and in my opinion is better than the IWC Mark XVI (which is 5 times as expensive), or the Laco or Achimede, both of which have failed my liking either by my preference for a decently small size or the lack of a Crystal caseback, 

But to be brutally honest, if all I want, fundamentally, is a Flieger dial with a reliable mechanical movement, and which also has a better leather strap than Stowa's, then there are literally truckloads of choices out there. 

So.....in my summary. What we are talking about here is about a man called Jorg. This watch is as much about the man himself as it is about the product - so that is what I think I would be paying for.....should I proceed to buy one. And in my opinion, this justifies the asking price. 

My search continues........


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## Ananda

Ananda said:


> interesting read... i'm still not sure i understand why the non-logo dial is 60 more. i'm also pretty sure i don't really care. lol.


now i see, it's that german silver rotor that increases the price.


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## senna89wc12

I would like to say that an additional 60 Euro for a no logo Stowa Flieger is reasonable. Like ZhekaZhuk said, the additional cost is for the no logo dial and also the German silver rotor which has a serial number. For me a serial number on a watch means the watch belongs to that specific owner only. The Flieger with logo is great looking, but for me a no logo dial is more true to the original depiction of the B-Uhr watches. The effort and passion that Jorg and his team put into their watches are tremendous, and this is what Stowa watches are all about.


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## yermano

funniest thread ive read in the 2 years ive been here. thanks for the laughs and explanation of price difference


picture courtesy of random google search

ps look at me 200 posts


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## Seamaster68

ZhekaZhuk said:


> what so hard to grasp.....
> 
> No Logo Flieger Regular or COSC movement
> 
> Both comes standard with:
> 1. No logo dial
> 2. German Silver Rotor (with the serial number 0001, 0002,etc )
> 
> which IMHO is enough to add 60 to price...
> 
> here is my NO LOGO COSC:


@ ZhekaZhuk, can I trouble you with a shot at the either side, I would like to order this but concern if the watch is too slim. Appreciated!!


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## messiah23

It would be possible to speculate in all sorts of ways why Stowa prices the watches differently. The easiest way to find out would, of course, be to ask them. I imagine they would be happy to provide an answer. 
But your post speaks to a more interesting question about horology that has intrigued me for some time: How is the value of a watch determined? Ultimately something is only worth what someone will pay for it, but why do so many people pay over ten thousand dollars for an IWC Big Pilot when you can get a Stowa for a tenth of that? From what I gather, the Stowa is just as good a watch, and I've even heard some suggest that the Stowa has a superior movement. (If anyone can speak to the relative difference in quality of the two watches, please enlighten us. I honestly cannot say with any great authority).
My only conclusion is that watch valuation is somewhat congruent to art valuation. There is an intersection of the aesthetic, mastery of craft and marketing buzz that determines the value of a watch.
Circling back to the initial question of why one face would be more expensive than another. The aesthetics of a watch contribute to its demand and value. Why is an IWC Big Pilot watch thirteen thousand dollars while a Mark XVI is only three thousand dollars? Did the Big Pilot really cost that much more to make? Probably not. In fact, considering that the Big Pilot is larger, I would even guess that the Mark XVI costs more to produce. Now, when considering the Stowa, you may wish to consider that fewer people will buy the non-logo version of the watch. Hence, in years to come, the non-logo version of the Stowa may be more valuable than the one with the logo -- and not just by 60 euros. If Mr. Keynes is to be believed. 
But the bottom line is that 800 euros is a pretty great deal for a hand-made automatic watch. Omegas and Tags are all mass-produced, and look what they want for their watches. Personally I'd rather give my money to an independent watch maker.


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## MCG

As a marketing guy myself, I can only congratulate Jörg! :-!

The value of watches or any other luxury good has never be on real value if the brand is believed of superior quality or reputation. Of course this comes not by itself....

As soon as a brand gets credit for the good reputation of its products in a broader customerbase the value of the goods is determind of product value + perceived value of the brand!

In other words: Due to the fact that Stowa is not widely known in the public (like e.g. IWC) the brand Stowa is not worth a lot yet (perceived value). 
So a branded dial "Stowa" is worth the poroduct price. 
A no-brand dial is perceived much more because it also could be a Lange & Söhne or IWCFlieger (they made the same dials), and these two brands are worth a lot. So the watch (dial) is perceived more valueable!

So I would have tagged the no-logo dial as well higher!

Actually I ordered the Flieger A and B dial without logo... ;-)


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## Jörg Schauer

Hello,

a long thread and i just read a bit of it.

The difference of course is the handmade rotor in german silver with the serial number engraved.

The dial with or without logo is no pricedifference** - it is just one print - it doesn´t matter if the logo is on it or not.

**Of course it would be a difference if i order for example from one dial 100 pieces and from the other 500 pieces.

The suppliers have big difference in prices depending on the quantity.

So it could happen that a not so popular dial which seems to be easier to produce still is much more expensive .-)

Thats the reason that the calculation of a watch relates to many many small details - quantity, tooling costs, quality of suppliers and much more.

best regards

Jörg Schauer


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## Bbros

My search is now over.

Since stumbling into this forum, I have had the utmost pleasure of meeting some of the most passionate people. edited

And after months of soul searching, and seeking that perfect dial which makes my heart skip a beat every time I look at the time, I feel that I have found it. Yes, it does cost more, but the reasons for my purchase in the end was nearly purely emotional (rather than rational).

I wish you all good health and enjoy your most precious purchases.


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## brainless

Congrats on your Explorer I Bbros! :-!

That's the only Rolex watch I ever considered to purchase - but always when I was prepared to close the deal, there was a Stowa I preferred to buy. b-)


Regards,


Volker ;-)


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## Echizen

LOL. This thread made my day. I can't believe OP with his "scientific background" couldn't read Stowa's website and figure it out for himself. Then after all this talk about being ripped off, he buys a Rolex.


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## Statius

If I recall, Stowa's offer of a discount on certain no-logo, with date Fliegers was due to them being put in the wrong case (the Flieger with logo case, I assume?). The reason for the discount being that the no-logo cases required a bit more tooling to accommodate the German Silver rotor, and so the offer was no-logo watches but with no silver rotor. If I'm correct on this so far, would not the extra precision tooling required to allow the German Silver rotor account in part for the apparent price discrepancy? I don't recall if this fact was mentioned in this thread. So it's not 'just' the rotor, it is the extra tooling required to allow that rotor to fit.


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## Renisin

You are being way too subtle, he won't get it!! I did!!

Ren


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