# Quality and Reliability??



## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

I've seen a number of complaints across the internet about Ball Watches quality. These include one retailer who dropped them a number of years back because of incoming reliability issues and recent reports about the second hand falling off and repairs not fixing the problem and the customer returning the watch to the shop it was purchased from. I'm curious as to what the members here think. FWIW, I've had problems with Rolex Service Center retuning a watch which was incorrectly repaired and claiming it was my wife's fault; I know that there are more problems than at Ball alone.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

I have owned a pretty sizeable number of Ball watches of the years, and I have yet to have an issue with any of them. 

I don't neglect them and if anything needs attention, it gets it, but overall easily one of my favorite brands. 

Like anything else, there are exceptions to the rule, but I have monitored this forum for almost ten years and the number of positive threads here trumps any of the negative feedback, IMHO.

Use the search engine here if you want other information. 

This entire site has a huge inventory of "everything" watch-related.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

Nokie said:


> I have owned a pretty sizeable number of Ball watches of the years, and I have yet to have an issue with any of them.
> 
> I don't neglect them and if anything needs attention, it gets it, but overall easily one of my favorite brands.
> 
> ...


Prior to posting I searched; both terms individually (quality and reliability) yielded the following results.



> *Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.*


Perhaps you can make some suggestions...


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## PetrosD (Jun 18, 2017)

I own three Ball watches. One of them developed an issue within the first month (the crown pulled out completely when I went to set the time after it had sat for a week or so). The watch, which was ordered directly from Ball on pre-order, was sent back to Ball through my local AD, who handled it for me. I had to pay $50 for shipping and handling, but that seemed reasonable since the AD had nothing to do with the original purchase, and I'd rather have the AD handle it than ship it back myself. 12 weeks later I got it back and have had no problems since. The other two have been perfect from the start, with no issues.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

Only problem with Ball Watch that I ever had was that the courier man dropped it. Didn't work right out of the box so it went back to my local Ball Watch dealer and it got fixed under warranty. Was also regulated and is now +0.5spd accurate and never missed a beat.


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

hogwldfltr said:


> I've seen a number of complaints across the internet about Ball Watches quality. These include one retailer who dropped them a number of years back because of incoming reliability issues and recent reports about the second hand falling off and repairs not fixing the problem and the customer returning the watch to the shop it was purchased from. I'm curious as to what the members here think. FWIW, I've had problems with Rolex Service Center retuning a watch which was correctly repaired and claiming it was my wife's fault; I know that there are more problems than at Ball alone.


I've been an active member of this forum for more than a decade, and the things you have sited are not representative of the problems that have been discussed here, at all. The main issue here has been problems with crown guards coming off or loose on those watches so equipped, and loss of pushers on some of the chronos. In terms of patterns, those two issues are about it.

Beyond that, as with any brand, there will always be individual issues and of course Ball, like most other brands, take way too much time if a watch needs to actually get serviced by them--an industry-wide issue, and nothing directly related to Ball itself.

And, as the things you noted are basically one-off hearsay, I can counter with some depth of personal experience--I have owned more than 70 Ball watches over this last decade, and have encountered only two problems--one, a loose crown that was easily fixed, and the other was a speck of dust caught in the painted dial of a new Fireman--the AD replaced it immediately with a new one--and that is it--2 issues easily rectified out of 70 experiences....

For contrast, I have owned just about a dozen IWC watches, and two of those had problems requiring major repairs which were quite costly. Ball stands tall in both quality and reliability, based on my direct experience, and indirect awareness of it and its competitors.

If I were forced into a situation where I could own only one "nice" watch, of any brand, it would be an original Ball Fireman first (as shown below), and a Rolex Explorer second--to me they are both equal in terms of build quality, attractiveness and accuracy, but Ball excels for both the tritium tubes and its exclusivity.


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## trappster (Jun 2, 2015)

I've now owned two Ball watches - one had significant issues and was returned. The second has been problem free thus far.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f239/warranty-stories-5067425.html#post50275429


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## Jim Smyth (Jul 10, 2013)

I now own 2 Ball Marvelights and am still in the honeymoon phase with this watch. Both are beautiful and very well constructed. I have also read about quality Control issues but I believe that exists in all watch companies. However I did a lot of reading before buying a Ball and know Ball used to have a US distributor in Florida. Jeff Hess was the man but dropped being a distributor this spring over what he claimed was Quality Control issues. It may have been more than that but here it is in his own words.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=450732&page=2

So that has to mean something. I hope I dont have to find out about warranty issues or need to send mine in any time soon because it looks like its gone for 4-5 months. But I have many watches if that happens and so far so good for me.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

Jim Smyth said:


> I now own 2 Ball Marvelights and am still in the honeymoon phase with this watch. Both are beautiful and very well constructed. I have also read about quality Control issues but I believe that exists in all watch companies. However I did a lot of reading before buying a Ball and know Ball used to have a US distributor in Florida. Jeff Hess was the man but dropped being a distributor this spring over what he claimed was Quality Control issues. It may have been more than that but here it is in his own words.
> 
> https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=450732&page=2
> 
> So that has to mean something. I hope I dont have to find out about warranty issues or need to send mine in any time soon because it looks like its gone for 4-5 months. But I have many watches if that happens and so far so good for me.


Thanks for posting that, Jim. I'm very familiar with the Jeff's posting. I'm a long time member of TRF and tend to look at watches through my Rolex tinted glasses. The thread, which I've not responded to because of its age, really isn't only about quality and reliability but more about servicing. I had a similar experience with having my wife's Tudor serviced by Rolex Service Center to the point that they wouldn't accept responsibility for their screw-up and insisted on blaming us. The did do the repair in the end however. In the mentioned thread, the Ball owner didn't really give Ball a second opportunity to make things right but returned the watch to the shop for a refund. I too am not certain about all the factors affecting Jeff's decision. From what I understand some Ball distributors are getting out due to Ball's direct marketing and sales. Seems this would likely have contributed to his decision making but without direct communications we'll never know. Also, FWIW, the Hess's site still lists them as Ball Watch distributors.


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## Earthbound (Sep 11, 2018)

I currently own 9 watches and my Ball Fireman NECC is the only one I have had issues with. Upon purchase, the bezel was loose and it had to be returned. After that, the back face was so loose that it was almost completely unscrewed. Now it’s running about a minute fast a day. It’s a beautiful watch and 2 issues are minor ones so I’m not scared away yet. The tritium is such a wonderful feature that I am waiting for the right manual wind Ball to be released.


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## jkingrph (Feb 6, 2018)

I have 4, and am wearing my second one now. It is an engineer starlight, and is rather unreliable stopping randomly. I purchased direct from Ball, and it looks like my computer somehow lost all the saved email, receipts, so cannot pin down the date. It was one of those special order deals where I got a requested serial number, and some personalization engraved on the back, I just now sent an email to Ball so am hoping to hear back sometime soon as to what they can do.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

jkingrph said:


> I have 4, and am wearing my second one now. It is an engineer starlight, and is rather unreliable stopping randomly. I purchased direct from Ball, and it looks like my computer somehow lost all the saved email, receipts, so cannot pin down the date. It was one of those special order deals where I got a requested serial number, and some personalization engraved on the back, I just now sent an email to Ball so am hoping to hear back sometime soon as to what they can do.


Looking to hear good news from the process with Ball.

My communications were with Florine.

Florine (BALL Watch Company SA) <[email protected]>


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## dino888 (Dec 23, 2019)

overall i hadent had any issues with my roadmaster starlight


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## Triton9 (Sep 30, 2011)

So far so good after 2months

2 second fast per day for this COSC spec watch.


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## Time4Good (Dec 22, 2019)

I have been familiar with Ball for a while, and recently purchased one. They're a good quality watch, I don't think you should worry about purchasing a new one if it catches your fancy. 

I'm lucky enough to have an AD real close by, and from what I learned from him, they were close to dropping Ball, but because of the previous US distribution partner in Florida (ie. the gentleman from the Rolex forum). They, and apparwntly the mothership in Switzerland, were frustrated and unhappy with the supply and support from the distributor. Since the change in distribution, they're going to keep carrying Ball. It's not my place to get into specifics of everything he shared, I bring it up only to say this: that post was made by a salesman and a businessman with his own reputation to try protect. Keep that in mind, and take his Ball comments with a grain of salt. Personally, I think it's unprofessional for someone who held that high of a public position in the brand to make sour grape comments online.


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

Don't underestimate your Ball's reliability.


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## Jim Smyth (Jul 10, 2013)

Time4Good said:


> I have been familiar with Ball for a while, and recently purchased one. They're a good quality watch, I don't think you should worry about purchasing a new one if it catches your fancy.
> 
> I'm lucky enough to have an AD real close by, and from what I learned from him, they were close to dropping Ball, but because of the previous US distribution partner in Florida (ie. the gentleman from the Rolex forum). They, and apparwntly the mothership in Switzerland, were frustrated and unhappy with the supply and support from the distributor. Since the change in distribution, they're going to keep carrying Ball. It's not my place to get into specifics of everything he shared, I bring it up only to say this: that post was made by a salesman and a businessman with his own reputation to try protect. Keep that in mind, and take his Ball comments with a grain of salt. Personally, I think it's unprofessional for someone who held that high of a public position in the brand to make sour grape comments online.


I understand where your coming from and Like I had said there has to be more to the story. You can find plenty of people in any watch brand complaining about quality control. I had a old work colleague say it like this. "You can do something nice for 10 people and only one of them will tell someone about it" "However if you do something perceived to be wrong to one person they will tell 10 people." Complaining is in our human nature.

Any service oriented business always has difficulty in this area. With that being said is there now a main contact point for distribution of Ball watches in the US since the Florida business is no longer doing it? Or do you need to seek out a Local Ball AD for any issues?


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## Time4Good (Dec 22, 2019)

Jim Smyth said:


> Time4Good said:
> 
> 
> > I have been familiar with Ball for a while, and recently purchased one. They're a good quality watch, I don't think you should worry about purchasing a new one if it catches your fancy.
> ...


There is a new distributor for North America, who imports the watches and distributes them to retailers. Assuming you are a consumer, you would still need to go through an Authorized Dealer to purchase. They'd be your best bet for service too.

The jeweler/AD I've gone to went from getting exactly 0 Ball watches and total frustration out of Florida to again filling a Ball section in their showcase, within a month of Ball cutting ties with the previous distributor.


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## Earthbound (Sep 11, 2018)

I do not have a lot of experience with watches, only been into this for about 2 years. That being said, I don’t know what can be considered acceptable as far as maintaining, repairs or repair time of various watches. Do certain watches require more work and are expected to have hiccups every now and then? I don’t know. How often do lemons occur in the watch industry? I don’t know. 
When I had to send my watch in, 2 separate occasions, Ball in Switzerland gave me the name of an AD in NYC. When I sent my watch thereto be fixed I was told it would be a month before they could even get to it due to so many Ball watches needing service. The repair guy did not necessarily speak negatively about Ball but intimated that they had problems frequently. Could this be that they are the only repair shop in NYC that Ball deals with, hence the amount of watches they get sent? Who knows. Did not instill much confidence. But, they did a great job of fixing it. I do need 2 more problems fixed, but they can be done anywhere. It’s still under warranty, but I can’t be bothered sending it away. I would rather bring it up to my local shop for service. 
I stated in a previous post that I am willing to give Ball one more try. I do realize that sometimes products are not perfect and they need fixing. If it did not have the tritium, I probably wouldn’t bother. They make a beautiful watch that is extremely useful with the tritium. Come on Ball. More manual winders!!


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

Earthbound said:


> I do not have a lot of experience with watches, only been into this for about 2 years. That being said, I don't know what can be considered acceptable as far as maintaining, repairs or repair time of various watches. Do certain watches require more work and are expected to have hiccups every now and then? I don't know. How often do lemons occur in the watch industry? I don't know.
> When I had to send my watch in, 2 separate occasions, Ball in Switzerland gave me the name of an AD in NYC. When I sent my watch thereto be fixed I was told it would be a month before they could even get to it due to so many Ball watches needing service. The repair guy did not necessarily speak negatively about Ball but intimated that they had problems frequently. Could this be that they are the only repair shop in NYC that Ball deals with, hence the amount of watches they get sent? Who knows. Did not instill much confidence. But, they did a great job of fixing it. I do need 2 more problems fixed, but they can be done anywhere. It's still under warranty, but I can't be bothered sending it away. I would rather bring it up to my local shop for service.
> I stated in a previous post that I am willing to give Ball one more try. I do realize that sometimes products are not perfect and they need fixing. If it did not have the tritium, I probably wouldn't bother. They make a beautiful watch that is extremely useful with the tritium. Come on Ball. More manual winders!!


As a reference, Rolex typically need servicing about once every ten years. All mechanical watches need servicing periodically. Parts wear out and oils deteriorate and need to be replaced. Other then that, from my understanding, design is the primary factor affecting reliability. Quality is affected by the ability to make identical parts and assemble them the same way each time. ETA makes a great product and is both reliable and has high quality. I'm not certain what Balls manufacturing volume is like and what fraction has problems. My understanding with Rolex is that many of the complaints are about their ability to maintain their +/-2 sec. accuracy. My Marvelight isn't running within COSC limits but then again it isn't supposed to. As I'm waiting for the Archangel I'll see how the Marvelight performs and may even have it adjusted for accuracy. The new inhouse reference may have faults which aren't yet discovered. The first inhouse refences which Tudor introduced had some issues. The first couple of design iteration of the coaxial release Omegas didn't fly and required recalls and repairs. Time will tell how Ball watches perform.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

hogwldfltr said:


> As a reference, Rolex typically need servicing about once every ten years. All mechanical watches need servicing periodically. Parts wear out and oils deteriorate and need to be replaced. Other then that, from my understanding, design is the primary factor affecting reliability. Quality is affected by the ability to make identical parts and assemble them the same way each time. ETA makes a great product and is both reliable and has high quality. I'm not certain what Balls manufacturing volume is like and what fraction has problems. My understanding with Rolex is that many of the complaints are about their ability to maintain their +/-2 sec. accuracy. My Marvelight isn't running within COSC limits but then again it isn't supposed to. As I'm waiting for the Archangel I'll see how the Marvelight performs and may even have it adjusted for accuracy. The new inhouse reference may have faults which aren't yet discovered. The first inhouse refences which Tudor introduced had some issues. The first couple of design iteration of the coaxial release Omegas didn't fly and required recalls and repairs. Time will tell how Ball watches perform.


This is a very objective and balanced view. I agree with your points. When looked at in isolation; it may appear that there are issues with Ball but when considered across the industry, it doesn't seem to be just Ball and this affects even big names like Omega and Tudor. In fact, the issues with the early coaxial movements and Tudor's date wheel problems are worse.


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## jkingrph (Feb 6, 2018)

hogwldfltr said:


> Looking to hear good news from the process with Ball.
> 
> My communications were with Florine.
> 
> Florine (BALL Watch Company SA) <[email protected]>


I sent my message Thur Jan 2, I supposed they were closed the rest of the week for holidays, but still have not heard back. Hoping to hear something in the next day or so.


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## Sergeant Major (Dec 13, 2019)

jkingrph said:


> I sent my message Thur Jan 2, I supposed they were closed the rest of the week for holidays, but still have not heard back. Hoping to hear something in the next day or so.


If not hearing back by end of week I have an email you may find handy.

As far as reliability, Ball does seem to try some innovative modifications with ETAs. As with anything new not all the bugs get worked out are evident when released. I am considering two.ball watches. The new Hydrocarbon Original and the RoadMaster Vanguard in blue.

I own a BEII Green Beret.


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## jkingrph (Feb 6, 2018)

Sergeant Major said:


> If not hearing back by end of week I have an email you may find handy.
> 
> As far as reliability, Ball does seem to try some innovative modifications with ETAs. As with anything new not all the bugs get worked out are evident when released. I am considering two.ball watches. The new Hydrocarbon Original and the RoadMaster Vanguard in blue.
> 
> I own a BEII Green Beret.


I got a reply from Florien at Ball this morning, He suggested that I contact one of three US service centers. One is in Plano, Tx ( Dallas) and I e mailed them and they requested pictures of front and back of watch which I sent. They replied back suggesting that I send it to the NY center. I forwarded the correspondence to them and have not yet heard back.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

jkingrph said:


> I got a reply from Florien at Ball this morning, He suggested that I contact one of three US service centers. One is in Plano, Tx ( Dallas) and I e mailed them and they requested pictures of front and back of watch which I sent. They replied back suggesting that I send it to the NY center. I forwarded the correspondence to them and have not yet heard back.


Still no NY response? Might be time to call them.


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## jkingrph (Feb 6, 2018)

I did call them and shipped it out USPS insured, It arrived there late last Friday afternoon. USPS also in tracking sent a copy of where they signed for it when delivered. I just sent an email requesting a status update. If no reply I will give them a call tomorrow.


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## Sergeant Major (Dec 13, 2019)

jkingrph said:


> I did call them and shipped it out USPS insured, It arrived there late last Friday afternoon. USPS also in tracking sent a copy of where they signed for it when delivered. I just sent an email requesting a status update. If no reply I will give them a call tomorrow.


So if you have tracking the wait starts. It was 8 weeks before my watch was returned. Is the the email you are using to contact the repair section? [email protected]


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## jkingrph (Feb 6, 2018)

Sergeant Major said:


> So if you have tracking the wait starts. It was 8 weeks before my watch was returned. Is the the email you are using to contact the repair section? [email protected]


Nope, 
[email protected]

Which was one of the three Ball service centers suggested by Ball.


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## jkingrph (Feb 6, 2018)

I called time innovations this afternoon, and was pleased to 1. have someone immediately answer the phone, no voice mail, ect. and 2, that person seemed to know something, He had remembered talking to me a few weeks back, and remembered the watch coming in. He said they had a backlog that had built up over the holidays and had to work through everything, which I can understand, plus they have to submit the warrenty claims to Ball. I did check out their website and it looks like they have been around for a while and are dealing in and servicing a lot of high end marks.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

jkingrph said:


> I called time innovations this afternoon, and was pleased to 1. have someone immediately answer the phone, no voice mail, ect. and 2, that person seemed to know something, He had remembered talking to me a few weeks back, and remembered the watch coming in. He said they had a backlog that had built up over the holidays and had to work through everything, which I can understand, plus they have to submit the warrenty claims to Ball. I did check out their website and it looks like they have been around for a while and are dealing in and servicing a lot of high end marks.


So what's the estimate in respect to time? A month?


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## jkingrph (Feb 6, 2018)

hogwldfltr said:


> So what's the estimate in respect to time? A month?


No actual estimate, but a few weeks were mentioned.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

jkingrph said:


> No actual estimate, but a few weeks were mentioned.


That sounds pretty reasonable.


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## jkingrph (Feb 6, 2018)

hogwldfltr said:


> That sounds pretty reasonable.


That is what I thought, but first they have to get approval for warranty service from Ball, just hope that does not take too long.


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## lxnastynotch93 (Dec 13, 2015)

Quality: Excellent - On par with and in some areas better than Breitling/Omega/Tudor. That goes for the Engineer Master/Hydrocarbon lineup speaking from experience. 

Reliability: Very Good - My watch runs about +2.5 s/day or less. One demerit for my ceramic bezel insert which came unglued and fell out. 

This brings me to my last category.

Service: Barely acceptable - It took them 8 months to repair a the ceramic bezel insert with little to no communication from Ball to my AD. In fact if it weren't for my AD, there would have been zero communication.

Seems to be par for the course with the scarcity of good Swiss watchmakers available. 



Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

As another with nearly 70 Ball GTLS watches here are my views. When Ball went to the more direct sale model a few years ago there was a decline in the quality of the watches. Not big things, but loose or missing screws, clasps falling apart, dust in watches and a dead tube here and there. Without the influence of the US division the newer world watch designs are lacking refinement, and appear to be designed more for the Asain market(Why all the Day/Date). The preorder before AD model has resale prices in the gutter. Good for preowned buyers, bad for sellers depending on your buy-in point. Being an AD with the current model has to be frustrating. Other than the Aero GMT and Marvelight I do not see much of interest in the current line to me. IMO some of the designs look like some of the Kickstarter pieces designed by someone who knows nothing about watches. Deciding to have a Ball back in my collection I took advantage of the massive markdowns on the older, and IMO better models BNIB. Two of my favorites from the past were the DeepQuest and the EHC Blackrock. The DeepQuest sold out before it got to the price range I felt was acceptable so when the number worked out just after New Years I bought the Blackrock. It is every bit as good as I remember it being from my review back a few years in this forum(see reviews above). Ball can build an excellent watch, I'm just not certain if they can with the current management.

Out of 70 watches two have ever needed service, but this was back in the Jeff Hess days so it is not relevant to the current operation.


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## Angler (Aug 14, 2019)

I was thinking about saving up and buying a Ball with their inhouse movement. Should I wait for them to iron out any issues? How long do you, collectively, think a person should wait for the issues to be resolved. Or...Is it smarter to get a Seiko Spring-drive?


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## Sparrowhawk (May 22, 2006)

Angler said:


> I was thinking about saving up and buying a Ball with their inhouse movement. Should I wait for them to iron out any issues? How long do you, collectively, think a person should wait for the issues to be resolved. Or...Is it smarter to get a Seiko Spring-drive?


To my knowledge, there have not been any major issues with the Ball in house/ manufacture movement reported on the forum. The likelihood is high that if there were problems they would have been reported. If I were going to get another Ball, I would likely get one with the manufacture movement.

That said, Spring Drive is amazing, IMHO it may be the best mechanical movement, and there is nothing else like it. I have 3 SDs.


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## Triton9 (Sep 30, 2011)

Sparrowhawk said:


> To my knowledge, there have not been any major issues with the Ball in house/ manufacture movement reported on the forum. The likelihood is high that if there were problems they would have been reported. If I were going to get another Ball, I would likely get one with the manufacture movement.
> 
> That said, Spring Drive is amazing, IMHO it may be the best mechanical movement, and there is nothing else like it. I have 3 SDs.


So far my experience with ball in house movement is , they are highly accurate on wrist. +1 second a day but if you left it on watch box, not watch winder. The accuracy become erratic like +6-7 seconds. Mind you, the watch was left on the box only a watch after I took it off. So the power reserve shall be enough to cover easily for 2 days since it has 80hrs power reserve. I even do a full hand wind to let it run on watch box. But that is not a big issue with me. It is the the reverse of erratic time on wrist but good run while stagnant. That will be a issue for me.


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## Jim Smyth (Jul 10, 2013)

My Marvelight III is a little over a month old now and has been worn daily. I am less than a quarter second off per day in over a month which is better than every other watch I own. So consider me very impressed so far.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

Jim Smyth said:


> My Marvelight III is a little over a month old now and has been worn daily. I am less than a quarter second off per day in over a month which is better than every other watch I own. So consider me very impressed so far.


On the other hand mine which is a II is off about 15 seconds per day. I've got a shop which said they could regulate it for me; the cost is $75 to regulate it and water proof test it. My Daytona is about 1 second off after three days.


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## cdnguyen729 (Nov 17, 2018)

Ball quality is great but lose so much value in the market. As far as reliability it all depends as I bought a marvelight III and it was running about +25secs a day which was not cool after awhile.


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## Jim Smyth (Jul 10, 2013)

Looks like I got lucky with mine.


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## Politiceaux (Jun 16, 2019)

cdnguyen729 said:


> Ball quality is great but lose so much value in the market. As far as reliability it all depends as I bought a marvelight III and it was running about +25secs a day which was not cool after awhile.


Quality being great but reliability being spotty seems contradictory, IMO. This is quite concerning to me as I just ordered my first Ball, the marvelight III.


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## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

The movement in the Engineer III Marvelight is the RR1103 which is based on the ETA 2824-2. If you’re buying new and it’s under warranty, then send it back to get it regulated. 

I have an Engineer Hydrocarbon and it is running +0.5 seconds per day. Can’t get better than that.

So it’s possible to get good and accurate timing out of a Ball Watch.


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

Politiceaux said:


> Quality being great but reliability being spotty seems contradictory, IMO. This is quite concerning to me as I just ordered my first Ball, the marvelight III.


You need to read more of the other forums. On occasion, ALL brands have folks essentially saying the same kinds of things. But, if you do get a good sense of what is going on by looking at a wide range of brands, and the experiences of their owners, you will see Ball actually comes out quite favorably in both form and function--there are a great many other brands where "spotty" is much more applicable.

As for accuracy, Ball, for its non-COSC movements, specifies accuracy of +/-15 secs/day, as does many other companies, tighter specs in fact than many, so if it is outside of that, have it regulated--locally, or by the AD you bought it from. Anecdotal one-off evidence and experience--the fodder of forums such as these--buys little in terms of generalizable conclusions--for me, I have owned more than 70 Ball watches, and of those, only two have had issues--one, a spec of dust was impregnated in the dial, which I didn't see until I used a macro lens--I bought it new, returned it, and got a new watch immediately. The other was a loose crown on a watch that I bought used--cost me $15 to fix. Otherwise, all have been great, most all within the expected specs--and this is not just me--forum moderator, Samanator, has owned a similar number of Ball watches over the same period of time, and he too, I believe, has had only two issues to date. Stuff happens with all brands, some more frequently than others--this is NOT the case with Ball, or at least there are no documented patterns of evidence to suggest as much, and hearsay is, well, hearsay.

In the "for what it's worth department" (i.e., not much) here are the current specs on the four Ball watches I have in my rotation: 1965 Trainmaster, literally spot-on +/-0secs/day; 2006 Fireman, +2.5secs/day; 2010 Trainmaster Cleveland Express Power Reserve, +6secs/day; 2012 Trainmaster Flying Scotsman, +5secs/day--not a "spotty" one in the group. The Sothis, the odd man out in my signature, is off by about -18 seconds per day, out of "spec", but even that I can live with.


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## Politiceaux (Jun 16, 2019)

Much appreciated.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

A bunch of issues surfaced in the linked thread below... Not getting warm fuzzies that's for certain.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f239/engineer-hydrocarbon-bezel-cant-replace-83691.html


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## Kratsmoose (Nov 19, 2012)

I've had issues with two out of three. One was a lemon from the beginning. The dealer was a nightmare. It supposedly went back to Ball and was fixed, but wasn't. Finally, after months, I arranged with Ball to send it to them myself. Sent a long letter detailing everything as well. Got the watch back a month later...cleaned. They didn't even check it out.

They apologized, etc. but I was fairly pissed about the whole thing...then another Ball watch of mine broke. Something with the crown. Between the two of them I just gave up and stopped wearing them (and my wife, as well). On the plus side, one of the three works perfectly! I can't recommend them.


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## MDNoobie (Feb 19, 2020)

This has been a good thread to read.

I'm on the verge of buying a Ball, most likely the Hydrocarbon, perhaps the Star-something. The thing is that I'm not interested in collecting watches. I just want to buy a few nice ones and be done. I'm just here to learn vicariously from you collectors' experiences so I can be sure I'm not mistakenly buying something that's gonna turn into a paperweight or spend more time getting fixed than getting used.

The big attraction of Ball for me is that it uses H3 lume, so I don't have to worry about it ever not being "on."

Someone said servicing takes eight months?!? Really? That could be a problem for me b/c I'll mostly wear that watch when I go camping, and that's in the summer. There's not gonna be much point in buying a watch for camping and then upon checking it out before the trip, learning it needs servicing, and it takes them all of camping season and then some to get get the thing back to me.

I have a Cartier and it's never taken anything near 8 months to get the watch back from service. About a month is what I've experienced, though they tell me 6-8 weeks when I drop it off. I just figured it'd be about the same for Ball.


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## Jim Smyth (Jul 10, 2013)

I love my Ball Marvelight that I got in December. I was also on the fence for a while with buying into the brand. It seems theirs more constant issues with Ball watches in general from my reading although all brands have issues. What I dont like reading about them is the service time frame or lack there of. I have read many stories about very long delays in getting watches fixed with Ball. I sure hope I dont have to use them for any warranty service. But so far so good, I wear my watch every day.


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## sryan79 (May 7, 2019)

I have an Engineer II and a Fireman Santa Fe with exactly zero issues on both. Any brand is going to have some issues


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## MDNoobie (Feb 19, 2020)

sryan79 said:


> I have an Engineer II and a Fireman Santa Fe with exactly zero issues on both. Any brand is going to have some issues


Perhaps so, but I just as soon it not be me who suffers the brand's issues. LOL

I've had 2 watches for my whole adult life & had no issues w/either of them. That's about what I expect w/any new watch I buy.


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## ChiTownTx (Jun 4, 2015)

Mixed feelings on this one as I have owned a lot of watches from various brands. I recently purchased a Roadmaster Marine GMT that had to go back to Ball the very next day after receiving it. This is the first time I have purchased a Ball and while I do like the watch I am not impressed by it's price point. Especially considering that I had a new Tudor BB S&G arrive the next day that I purchased for 200 dollars more than the Ball. Considering these watches were both brand new, arrived within one day of each other and have a 200 dollar price difference it seemed like a great way for me to describe my initial impressions of both.

Looking at the Ball watch day/date when at an angle you see a large gap of white. Nothing is beveled downwards around the day/date window so the eye is simply drawn to the small piece of divider material and the large amount of white from the date wheel below. Meanwhile on the Tudor everything around the date is beveled downward. There is no gap, everything is in place. The devil is in the details you see.

The bezel action. My god the difference! The Ball feels nice and overall I can't really complain about it. It's a rotating bezel. But the Tudor, it's like night and day. The bezel movement feels smooth yet solid. Each click is a joy to the ear and the overall feel of the mechanism can only be described as robust. Not to mention the bezel itself is made of solid 18k Gold from a value perspective it's hard to beat.

Hrmm, I could keep going on about the dial differences and various other things of note but I don't want this to turn into a this vs that sort of thing. So basically my thoughts are this.

The Ball from what I can tell is a good watch. Granted mine arrived damaged but it is due back from Ball on Monday. So no complaints with their warranty/service department as everything seems to have run smoothly on that end. Turn around time of 2 months isn't bad assuming everything is fixed with the watch when it arrives. However when your looking at the 2,500 to 3,000 dollar price range I do not think Ball belongs in this segment. Especially when compared to other brands that are out there. If anything (and this is from my limited experience with the brand) I believe Ball belongs more around the 1,200 dollar mark. This would put them around the Frederique Constant and entry level Longines price segments in which I think they could compete very well.

Ball makes a good watch and their service department seems to be on point. But for the initial retail price segment they are targeting I think if you look around you can get a lot more watch for the same amount of money. My 2 cents.


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## paintingtiger (Nov 12, 2017)

ChiTownTx said:


> Mixed feelings on this one as I have owned a lot of watches from various brands. I recently purchased a Roadmaster Marine GMT that had to go back to Ball the very next day after receiving it. This is the first time I have purchased a Ball and while I do like the watch I am not impressed by it's price point. Especially considering that I had a new Tudor BB S&G arrive the next day that I purchased for 200 dollars more than the Ball. Considering these watches were both brand new, arrived within one day of each other and have a 200 dollar price difference it seemed like a great way for me to describe my initial impressions of both.
> 
> Looking at the Ball watch day/date when at an angle you see a large gap of white. Nothing is beveled downwards around the day/date window so the eye is simply drawn to the small piece of divider material and the large amount of white from the date wheel below. Meanwhile on the Tudor everything around the date is beveled downward. There is no gap, everything is in place. The devil is in the details you see.
> 
> ...


A couple things here... First, just taking a quick look on the web, it appears that the BB on bracelet is listed at more than two thousand dollars more than the Ball. So they're not really in a similar price range.

Next, with this particular Ball, you're paying a little extra for titanium as well as all the other patented tech in there. I can't vouch for the quality of any of the Roadmasters as I've never handled one. I've heard good and bad about them. The dial of this one definitely doesn't do it for me.

I would, if you have a chance, check out some of the Engineer, Trainmaster and Hydrocarbon lines. Many of the ones I've handled compare pretty favourably to Tudors I've handled. The most basic models with eta movements I would agree belong around the $1200 range, but the nicer ones, especially with in-house movement, belong about double that imo.


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## ChiTownTx (Jun 4, 2015)

Yeah I should have been more specific as the S&G is on a leather strap. So perhaps I could award more points towards the Roadmaster for the bracelet in all fairness but still I payed $2,950 for the Tudor out the door. Think the Ball was in the 2,600 range if I remember correctly off the top of my head. Still dollar for dollar I think the Tudor is a far better deal. Not to mention I later learned most of these "limited" lines are only supported for 5 years.

Granted I have yet to see their main lines in person as you have mentioned. So perhaps your right and that could sway my opinion more. However after owning many watches from many different brands at various price points I still think the competition offers more than what I have experienced thus far when it comes to BALL in the 2k to 3k range (Sinn is another good example). I will have to keep my eyes open and hopefully come across one of their main line watches and make another assessment from there.


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## paintingtiger (Nov 12, 2017)

ChiTownTx said:


> Yeah I should have been more specific as the S&G is on a leather strap. So perhaps I could award more points towards the Roadmaster for the bracelet in all fairness but still I payed $2,950 for the Tudor out the door. Think the Ball was in the 2,600 range if I remember correctly off the top of my head. Still dollar for dollar I think the Tudor is a far better deal. Not to mention I later learned most of these "limited" lines are only supported for 5 years.
> 
> Granted I have yet to see their main lines in person as you have mentioned. So perhaps your right and that could sway my opinion more. However after owning many watches from many different brands at various price points I still think the competition offers more than what I have experienced thus far when it comes to BALL in the 2k to 3k range (Sinn is another good example). I will have to keep my eyes open and hopefully come across one of their main line watches and make another assessment from there.


Two examples of watch brands that I would put as Ball's competitors are Oris and Longines, and when I've held them all in my hand side by side, the Ball generally feels like the better watch. Now I will concede that Ball could use some refinement in their dial design at times.

I can't think of a better deal in the watch world than a $2000ish Ball Engineer M Marvelight or Trainmaster M 80 Hours.


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

This has certainly turned into an odd discussion, with odd random comparisons. As with just about any brand, there are some sensational models, some excellent ones, some that you could take or leave, and some that really are not so attractive or desirable--true of Ball, Tudor, Sinn, whatever. The key is to spend a lot of time researching, trying on, evaluating and so forth, in order to track down those sensational models first, and at the same time, coming to terms with the fact that, as with all watches, some just don't live up to your expectations--pretty much goes with the territory. 

I really don't think you (Chitown) need to make such random comparisons, though--what's the point--you like A better than B, Joe Blow likes B better than A, and Johnny Come Lately doesn't like either of them--not much to gain in such a one off exercise. Buy what you like, enjoy what you bought. I own four Ball watches, each in somewhat different categories, but each sensational in their respective categories, where each is able to not only stand up to their competitors of like models, but blow their socks off, and where many of which (the competitors) are at much higher price points.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

timefleas said:


> This has certainly turned into an odd discussion, with odd random comparisons. As with just about any brand, there are some sensational models, some excellent ones, some that you could take or leave, and some that really are not so attractive or desirable--true of Ball, Tudor, Sinn, whatever. The key is to spend a lot of time researching, trying on, evaluating and so forth, in order to track down those sensational models first, and at the same time, coming to terms with the fact that, as with all watches, some just don't live up to your expectations--pretty much goes with the territory.
> 
> I really don't think you (Chitown) need to make such random comparisons, though--what's the point--you like A better than B, Joe Blow likes B better than A, and Johnny Come Lately doesn't like either of them--not much to gain in such a one off exercise. Buy what you like, enjoy what you bought. I own four Ball watches, each in somewhat different categories, but each sensational in their respective categories, where each is able to not only stand up to their competitors of like models, but blow their socks off, and where many of which (the competitors) are at much higher price points.


It's true with Ball that there is considerable variation in the model offerings. This is impacted mainly by design. Tritium tube technology is a mixed blessings and curse. It appears almost stark when skinny tubes are mounted on a dial without surrounds to soften their appearance. With other watch houses that I'm familiar with (Rolex, Tudor, Breitling, Omega, TAG Heuer) I see less variation in design in initial appearance. Also I've never seen any of these with 72 ticks instead of 60 in 360 degrees of rotation.


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## paintingtiger (Nov 12, 2017)

timefleas said:


> This has certainly turned into an odd discussion, with odd random comparisons. As with just about any brand, there are some sensational models, some excellent ones, some that you could take or leave, and some that really are not so attractive or desirable--true of Ball, Tudor, Sinn, whatever. The key is to spend a lot of time researching, trying on, evaluating and so forth, in order to track down those sensational models first, and at the same time, coming to terms with the fact that, as with all watches, some just don't live up to your expectations--pretty much goes with the territory.
> 
> I really don't think you (Chitown) need to make such random comparisons, though--what's the point--you like A better than B, Joe Blow likes B better than A, and Johnny Come Lately doesn't like either of them--not much to gain in such a one off exercise. Buy what you like, enjoy what you bought. I own four Ball watches, each in somewhat different categories, but each sensational in their respective categories, where each is able to not only stand up to their competitors of like models, but blow their socks off, and where many of which (the competitors) are at much higher price points.


Timefleas, I believe you have nailed it here. It is best to compare specific watches as opposed to brands as a whole. Thanks for being the voice of reason in this discussion.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

paintingtiger said:


> Timefleas, I believe you have nailed it here. It is best to compare specific watches as opposed to brands as a whole. Thanks for being the voice of reason in this discussion.


I really disagree; a brand as a whole either maintains standards or they don't. Maybe hand waving allows certain Ball models to excel and others to go to the hopper. For some brands there are no watches that go to the hopper just more popular and less popular models. In the case of Ball I must bring up the 72 second/minute tick GMT. Can you point to another reputable brand that would ship something like that?


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## paintingtiger (Nov 12, 2017)

hogwldfltr said:


> paintingtiger said:
> 
> 
> > Timefleas, I believe you have nailed it here. It is best to compare specific watches as opposed to brands as a whole. Thanks for being the voice of reason in this discussion.
> ...


Pretty sure we got an explanation for that already. Made sense to me.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

paintingtiger said:


> Pretty sure we got an explanation for that already. Made sense to me.


Please explain it to me; I just don't get it.


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## paintingtiger (Nov 12, 2017)

hogwldfltr said:


> paintingtiger said:
> 
> 
> > Pretty sure we got an explanation for that already. Made sense to me.
> ...


We'll, each tick on the GMT track is 20min. 72 ticks=24hrs.


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## mt_hangglider (Feb 20, 2007)

Having owned quite a few Ball watches over the years, I will echo what others have said and say it's been a mixed bag. Most were perfectly reliable without any QC issues. The one that gave me the most trouble was the movement in a EMII Diver Chronometer (which was my most loved Ball). It went back to BWUSA for the same recurring movement issue half a dozen times. If I recall correctly, it was a reversing wheel issue where the rotor would spin wildly when manually winding the watch. Each time it would go back, they'd fix it, all while putting additional scratches on my case each time. It'd come back and be fine for a while then one day I'd pick it up to wind it and bam, same issue. I eventually got tired of playing that game and got rid of the watch.

For a long time, I swore off Ball because of the bad BWUSA experiences. Recently though, I found another brand new EMII Diver from a grey market seller for less than 1K. Couldn't resist. I was shocked at how nice it is. Fit and finish is 100%, the crown is the smoothest winding and screwing in/out I've ever had in a watch for any price, the non-chronometer 2893 movement is keeping +3/day out of the box, the internal bezel lines up perfectly, etc. Couldn't be more pleased with my purchase and feel I got a lot of watch for the $. The RR symbol on the crown even lines up perfectly when screwed down.


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## AardnoldArrdvark (Aug 7, 2019)

hogwldfltr said:


> I really disagree; a brand as a whole either maintains standards or they don't. Maybe hand waving allows certain Ball models to excel and others to go to the hopper. For some brands there are no watches that go to the hopper just more popular and less popular models. In the case of Ball I must bring up the 72 second/minute tick GMT. Can you point to another reputable brand that would ship something like that?


Well, there was this one that featured in an article last May...








_(photo credit: timeandtidewatches.com)_


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

AardnoldArrdvark said:


> Well, there was this one that featured in an article last May...
> 
> View attachment 14905037
> 
> _(photo credit: timeandtidewatches.com)_


That's a QC escape and not a standard. I'd have no interest in a watch without 60 ticks per hour (regardless if it was justified as a GMT; I've had a GMT with 60 ticks per hour and there is no advantage of the 72 for my needs). BTW, the Air King is one of my favorite Rolex watches. No I don't own one; I've got two Daytonas and an Explorer II (also a two time zone watch). As always there's conversation of the Air King being discontinued. I hope not.


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## mlatchmouth (Mar 24, 2009)

hogwldfltr said:


> ...Time will tell how Ball watches perform.


HAHA!


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## mlatchmouth (Mar 24, 2009)

FWIW, I now own five(!) Ball watches. I did not intend to won this many all at once. But the offers I made at various online sellers were accepted without counter offers. What else was I supposed to do I do? ;-)

FWIW I tracked the following over a couple days, using my computer time at the :00 second mark, then noting the corresponding watch time.
Trainmaster legend- three days, no time difference I measured.
Engineer II averaged approximately 10 seconds fast a day over 5 days.
Engineer II marvelite - +/- 30 seconds, sprodaic, possibly due to operator error because no minute markings to tell exactly the minute when recorded
Engineer II master diver - 4 to 8 seconds fast per day.
Engineer II hydrocarbon submarine warfare - not measured yet.

So far so good. Have not had any issues with any of them yet. Pleased to this point.

I will say one problem was keeping them wound. So, I* HAD* to buy a watch winder.


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## itibiertia0887 (Feb 24, 2020)

I have owned a few Ball watches of the years, and I have yet to have an issue with any of them.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

mlatchmouth said:


> FWIW, I now own five(!) Ball watches. I did not intend to won this many all at once. But the offers I made at various online sellers were accepted without counter offers. What else was I supposed to do I do? ;-)
> 
> FWIW I tracked the following over a couple days, using my computer time at the :00 second mark, then noting the corresponding watch time.
> Trainmaster legend- three days, no time difference I measured.
> ...


Can you explain this? My Eng II Marvelite has minute markings.


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## Njnjcfp88 (Aug 30, 2018)

I have about 60 watches. All the usual Swiss suspects and lets throw Seiko in too. My lone Ball Trainmaster Power Reserve stands up in build quality to most of them. For the price point - Ball makes a wonderful solid watch. Mines running +2 secs a day.


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## Greg G (Aug 7, 2011)

I have a Submarine Warfare that I purchased new late last year. It stopped running a few weeks ago. I'm curious what the wait time for service is right now. If the watch will be gone for several months as I've read in some cases, I may just have a local watchmaker repair it and pay out of pocket. 

At the moment I regret buying this watch. It was a lot of money for something that quit after a few months of light wearing. I baby the watch and it's never been banged or dropped on a hard surface.


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## TIVOOM (Aug 19, 2020)

My very subjective view, based on a single Ball purchase. I pre-ordered a Ball Roadmaster Worldtime and it arrived from the factory needing a repair. The watch would stop multiple times a day, and would not start again until you tapped the face or shook your wrist. The second hand would get 'stuck' on the minute hand when the minute hand was between 40 & 45.
Of course, I was not happy with the QC that allowed this watch to leave the factory, since any testing should have shown a problem. But I think what bothered me most was the uncaring nature of the response from Ball. Essentially they said they make watches, they don't fix them and that once they sell it is not their problem and that is why they give a warranty. They would not even cover the shipping to the repair shop. They washed their hands of the issue. So I possessed the watch for a few days and had to ship it to NY for repairs, which was almost 2 months ago.
Of course, the possibility of issues can happen with any product. But when spending $3k on a watch I expect the seller (in this case the factory direct) to take responsibility for the product they sell. The post-purchase experience has been awful. I really got the impression from my conversations with them that they really did not care if the watch worked, and that it really was not their problem once it left the factory floor.


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## hogwldfltr (Sep 2, 2012)

TIVOOM said:


> My very subjective view, based on a single Ball purchase. I pre-ordered a Ball Roadmaster Worldtime and it arrived from the factory needing a repair. The watch would stop multiple times a day, and would not start again until you tapped the face or shook your wrist. The second hand would get 'stuck' on the minute hand when the minute hand was between 40 & 45.
> Of course, I was not happy with the QC that allowed this watch to leave the factory, since any testing should have shown a problem. But I think what bothered me most was the uncaring nature of the response from Ball. Essentially they said they make watches, they don't fix them and that once they sell it is not their problem and that is why they give a warranty. They would not even cover the shipping to the repair shop. They washed their hands of the issue. So I possessed the watch for a few days and had to ship it to NY for repairs, which was almost 2 months ago.
> Of course, the possibility of issues can happen with any product. But when spending $3k on a watch I expect the seller (in this case the factory direct) to take responsibility for the product they sell. The post-purchase experience has been awful. I really got the impression from my conversations with them that they really did not care if the watch worked, and that it really was not their problem once it left the factory floor.


That is very depressing. I work in manufacturing. Our product had better be reliable because it's used in phones and all sorts of wifi and bluetooth devices. "Not working" would be a death knell for our company.


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## mitch57 (Jan 8, 2014)

I own 4 Ball watches. All bought brand new from an AD accept the last one which I bought direct from Ball. The build quality is good for the price on all but the last Ball watch. The Roadmaster Challenger 18 was my last Ball purchase and it will be the last Ball watch I will ever buy. I consider this watch to be at the bottom of the barrel even compared to a cheap Seiko watch.

I got my Roadmaster Challenger directly from Ball with this quite obvious defect. Beyond the obvious issue the bracelet on this watch is a piece of junk! The diver's extension is a flimsy piece of pop metal and the clasp is garbage as well. This is why I won't be buying any more Ball watches in the future.

I told Ball I wanted a refund for the watch and didn't want it repaired. They refused and I had to send it back for repair. I should have just sent it back and disputed the credit card charge. Piss poor customer service on top of piss poor quality control.


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## TIVOOM (Aug 19, 2020)

Mitch- I totally get it. The attitude I got from Ball post purchase was very similar, essentially that post production is not their problem. My first Ball watch was my last Ball watch because of the total lack of care of that they shipped a non functioning watch.


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## singlemalt_18 (Sep 26, 2012)

Very disheartening to hear about this problem along with all the other disappointments & issues of late with Ball and pre-orders. My pre-order purchase a month ago was a very emotion driven event for many reasons, and my affinity for Ball watches is based on my belief that this was the same watchmaker they were 8 years ago. I hope these issues are something that are indicative of the disruption of 2020, and not the new norm. I am also going to hope my long wait gives Ball a chance to get their **** together and prove that they are worthy of the respect many have held for them over many years.


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## mitch57 (Jan 8, 2014)

singlemalt_18 said:


> Very disheartening to hear about this problem along with all the other disappointments & issues of late with Ball and pre-orders. My pre-order purchase a month ago was a very emotion driven event for many reasons, and my affinity for Ball watches is based on my belief that this was the same watchmaker they were 8 years ago. I hope these issues are something that are indicative of the disruption of 2020, and not the new norm. I am also going to hope my long wait gives Ball a chance to get their **** together and prove that they are worthy of the respect many have held for them over many years.


My pre-order was a year before Covid hit so it has nothing to do with Covid. Fact is that they abandoned they're ADs in favor of direct sales. Plus, the overall quality of this new watch is way, way, way below the previous Ball watches I own.

I personally believe they have lost their way and are struggling to stay viable as a watch company. Time will tell...


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## secmar44 (Nov 18, 2007)

I think Ball watches have very high quality in their price range.


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## Earthbound (Sep 11, 2018)

I’ve already responded to this post but it has been over a year. Since then, my Fireman has difficulty holding or gaining reserve power. The rotor doesn’t sound like it spins as freely as my other automatics. This is the 3rd problem in less than 2 years and the problems are unrelated. One problem I get but 3 different problems with one watch says crappy watch. I love the look and the tritium but probably my last Ball.


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