# Honestly surprised at how hard it is to sell Longines.



## guccimanilla

Basically the last few weeks I have been trying, more so out of fun, to sell my Longines 1942 Heritage Chronograph. I usually do this with new watches. However, I'm honestly surprised how hard it's been to sell this watch. It's actually been frustrating how many offers I've made only to be turned down. And I don't understand why. On top of that, I also find it confusing I didn't get too many likes when I posted a picture of my watch on reddit to a disappointing amount of likes.

Have I gone crazy? Am I the only person in the world who likes this watch? I can't stop staring at it, yet when I think about how hard it's been to sell and how little attention it's been getting online it kind of hinders my enjoyment of it a bit... almost like I need to get rid of it as soon as I can.

What do you guys think? I know a lot of people complain about the case.


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## raja_3012

True that. Longines indeed is a very very hard sell at least in the US market and it is to the point that even gray market or brick and mortar watch dealers refuse to accept Longines for watch trades. Plus Longines has a terrible residual value. So if you bought it new from an AD and trying to sell it at a respectable price then it is surely difficult but not impossible. There has to be someone in the world who has the same appreciation for the watch just as the way you have. 

Longines watches are definitely a value for money but there is not much of brand recognition in the US. It does have brand recognition in the eastern part of the world like China, Thailand and India.


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## Watchbreath

Really, I sold quite a few and I sold two on my last day and we took them in trade. Where do you get your information?


raja_3012 said:


> True that. Longines indeed is a very very hard sell at least in the US market and it is to the point that even gray market or brick and mortar watch dealers refuse to accept Longines for watch trades. Plus Longines has a terrible residual value. So if you bought it new from an AD and trying to sell it at a respectable price then it is surely difficult but not impossible. There has to be someone in the world who has the same appreciation for the watch just as the way you have.
> 
> Longines watches are definitely a value for money but there is not much of brand recognition in the US. It does have brand recognition in the eastern part of the world like China, Thailand and India.


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## guccimanilla

Watchbreath said:


> Really, I sold quite a few and I sold two on my last day and we took them in trade. Where do you get your information?


I can testify to Raja's quote. I've had dealers flat out refuse me at the word Longines.


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## raja_3012

Watchbreath said:


> Really, I sold quite a few and I sold two on my last day and we took them in trade. Where do you get your information?


LOL... I got this information from my own experience. I have reputed online dealers either say flat out No or offer a painfully low trade value. Same goes with some brick and mortar stores as well. I guess if you take trade ins for Logines and/or make respectable buy offers then our OP has a potential customer here .


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## Watchbreath

And I sold them for 4.5 years and they sold. Then again, watches do sell by location. Ex: 12 years ago Bedat was a big seller on one side of Dallas and a dud on 
another.


guccimanilla said:


> I can testify to Raja's quote. I've had dealers flat out refuse me at the word Longines.


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## mpalmer

The watch market seems to be in a rut right now. Longines is not really a sexy brand. It's a respectable brand, a solid brand, perhaps one that some settle for, or decide is the right spot for them. It does not seem like a brand that generates a lot of chatter. Given the unfavorable watch resale market right now, I could see why selling could be tough. That said, I think that is a sharp looking watch with a classy look. I personally would happily wear that one if I were in the market for a classy looking chronograph.


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## kit7

Perhaps it's hard to sell because it's a chronograph? People like dealers probably know they are more expensive to service. They don't have the same brand awareness as Rolex or Omega.


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## UofRSpider

kit7 said:


> Perhaps it's hard to sell because it's a chronograph? People like dealers probably know they are more expensive to service. They don't have the same brand awareness as Rolex or Omega.


No, It's hard to sell because it says "Longines" on the dial. They have very poor resale value. When I had to sell my collection several years ago, I made decent money on every watch. I never buy a watch for more than the resale value.


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## Watchbreath

I sold a lot of them because it said "Longines" on the dial.


UofRSpider said:


> No, It's hard to sell because it says "Longines" on the dial. They have very poor resale value. When I had to sell my collection several years ago, I made decent money on every watch. I never buy a watch for more than the resale value.


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## excelerater

its a buyers market right now on many items not just watches. election years also make for slow sales


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## cufflinkcraze

It's hard to sell any watch..except of course if it's a Rolex..


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## publandlord

Some good local, US-market-only commentary here - Longines isn't that big a deal there, but globally of course it's huge. Since the internet is global too, US sellers will find ready buyers elsewhere if they are willing to see beyond "CONUS only". Longines sells almost as many watches around the world as Rolex and Omega combined.

Le Temps publishes ranking of global watch sales | WatchPro


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## yankeexpress

Would not buy a Longines as they are vastly overpriced when new, making owners think they have to get their money back in the resale. Pass unless it is under $1000US.


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## kinglee

Great looking watch, but it looks odd on a nato. Nice leather would seem more appropriate. 


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## publandlord

yankeexpress said:


> Would not buy a Longines as they are vastly overpriced when new, making owners think they have to get their money back in the resale. Pass unless it is under $1000US.


Can you explain how they manage to sell 1,300,000 watches a year then? 

Longines watches are traded far less by buyers, who are more likely to be older, less wissy, and for whom the secondary market is not nearly as appealing. On ebay right now, 3,300 Longines for sale; 8,500 TAG; 9,400 Omega; and 35,000 Rolex.


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## nevada1995

That's great news for me, love Longines retro and dive watches.


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## shtora

yankeexpress said:


> Would not buy a Longines as they are vastly overpriced when new, making owners think they have to get their money back in the resale. Pass unless it is under $1000US.


Strange, I thought Longines offered probably the best VFM in its price range.


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## Watchbreath

Not the best, but real good.


shtora said:


> Strange, I thought Longines offered probably the best VFM in its price range.


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## asadtiger

That's a real classy watch..may be your inability to sell it just goes to show that many people don't have classy taste  j/k...i think selling times are hard and longines second hand values are really low and you are pricing it reasonably but not according to the market.

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## mharris660

best to sell it because it's way too big for your wrist


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## Brawndo

Whenever I wear my Longines or Mido in the states or Canada nobody seem to recognize it. Just purchased a Longines to my wife in the Bahamas over a Tag Heuer and have absolutely no regrets. I've ton of respect for Longines ever though I own a few Rolexes and Omegas. 

It's also a recognized entry level luxury brand in Mexico. In the states, when you spend, people want others to recognize the brand. I know it's stupid but that's just the way things are. 

Longines should certainly do more than their obsession with freaking horses though, their marketing dept seems to be on valium.


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## pk22

I agree with the "tough times" comments. Seems like nothing is selling that quickly. Wish it meant prices were dropping for the us buyers!


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## nevermind

Less brand recognition makes me that much more proud to wear my Longines. People will often ask what is that on my wrist and I have to explain it's a Longines but they seem to walk away impressed. It's an exotic brand for North America for sure (even if Macy's sells them) but they command people's attention. 
I think Longines marketing misses the mark by focusing on their equestrian sponsorship and nothing else. It's a very niche sport that most people don't care about. They had more brand recognition back in the 80's when the name LONGINES was plastered across the finish line of almost every sporting event. 
The best areas to market watches these days in NA seem to be mainstream sports, music or cars. Any watch brand that tags along those events will be recognized and talked about.


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## raja_3012

nevermind said:


> Less brand recognition makes me that much more proud to wear my Longines. People will often ask what is that on my wrist and I have to explain it's a Longines but they seem to walk away impressed. It's an exotic brand for North America for sure (even if Macy's sells them) but they command people's attention.
> I think Longines marketing misses the mark by focusing on their equestrian sponsorship and nothing else. It's a very niche sport that most people don't care about. They had more brand recognition back in the 80's when the name LONGINES was plastered across the finish line of almost every sporting event.
> The best areas to market watches these days in NA seem to be mainstream sports, music or cars. Any watch brand that tags along those events will be recognized and talked about.


Well.. I cannot speak to why and how a watch company having less brand recognition makes you proud to wear it... However, one thing is for sure.. Their watches are not elusive in any form or fashion. Yes the name "Longines" exudes heritage and tad sophistication. However, the quality of the watches are no better than certain swiss or german boutique brands. From a movement standpoint, there is no correlation between price paid and the grade of the included movement. They are not Chronometer grade and not even Top grade movements. Breitling for a similar price line makes Chronometer grade movements. I think I read somewhere in the past that Swatch is trying to elevate Omega to Rolex levels and then have Longines fill in the gap created by Omega.

Net net.. yes watches are all about marketing but all marketing and no comparable quality does not go hand in hand.


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## nevermind

I'm confused, I thought the Swatch group created their own certification standard (I forget what they call it), so technically they can never be called a chronometer? Excuse my ignorance on this subject.


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## alittle

This post is bizarre. How old are you?


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## raja_3012

alittle said:


> This post is bizarre. How old are you?


Could you pls explain why do you think this post is bizarre?

PS: This forum is meant for discussion and all of us have been sharing our experiences and thought processes. So unless you have more insight than all of us combined, request you to please refrain from mocking other fellow forum members.


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## alittle

raja_3012 said:


> Could you pls explain why do you think this post is bizarre?
> 
> PS: This forum is meant for discussion and all of us have been sharing our experiences and thought processes. So unless you have more insight than all of us combined, request you to please refrain from mocking other fellow forum members.


I didn't think it needed explaining. My elaborated thoughts:

(1) I think the fact that someone's enjoyment of a watch is directly correlated with the number of likes across various social media platforms is sad and unfortunate. Mechanical watches are a thing of beauty and a lot of what makes them great isn't directly visible on the wrist and are certainly not perceptible to the average person.

(2) I think making a habit of attempting to re-sell every new watch immediately after receipt is bizarre, and then taking it a step further, to only derive pleasure or enjoyment from the watch should it be able to be resold.

This strikes me as the behaviour of someone who is young and hasn't gained confidence in their preferences or individual style, which is why I asked their age. I've found as I've gotten older, the less value I put on what others think and the less external validation I need to feel secure.


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## rfortson

Lots of derp in this thread. Longines makes fine watches for the money, and are appropriately positioned. Their column wheel chronograph is by far the most affordable Swiss column wheel made, making it an excellent value. As for the name "Longines" not being recognized, I'm not sure what to say about that. The Longines name and brand has been around (and advertised) for decades at the minimum. If you want other people to "like" your watch (for whatever reason), buy a Nixon or an Apple watch, or something trendy. If you want a quality watch with heritage and good company backing, buy a Longines (or many others in the price range). 

As for resale value, that fluctuates like everything else. If it's not selling, you're asking too much. Period. Watches (regardless of the brand) sell for about 50-75% of the lowest gray market price you can find. People who have trouble selling their watch usually think they found a "amazing deal" that no one else knew about and they're going to try to make out by selling it for some percentage off the retail price, not the price they actually paid new. That's a fool's errand.


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## Makeitfromscratch

@rfortson,

Yep, 'bout sums it up. If it's priced right, it'll move.


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## JimBass

Maybe Longines needs to bring back that old television commercial that ended with something like, "It's a nice watch but she really wanted a Longines."


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## Mike Smith

The good condition vintage Longines sell like hotcakes on ebay and across the web. It is hard to re-sell watches less than 10 years old in any circumstance.


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## AAAAAThats6As

Not the thread I want to find while prepping to sell my Longines haha. is WatchUSeek just down on Longines in general?


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## raja_3012

AAAAAThats6As said:


> Not the thread I want to find while prepping to sell my Longines haha. is WatchUSeek just down on Longines in general?


Ha ha. I understand the sentiments. It is not watchuseek or any other forum. It is in general the watch community. Plus there are couple of other factors involved here... what is the model you are trying to sell along with its price point and second is how flexible you are to make trade ups or trade downs.

In coming up with the price point, resources like watchrecon or eBay are the best places to start.


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## rfortson

AAAAAThats6As said:


> Not the thread I want to find while prepping to sell my Longines haha. is WatchUSeek just down on Longines in general?


Price it competitively and it will sell. Do your research on watchrecon, ebay, etc and price accordingly. You've got 78 more posts here to research it before you can list it here. On Watchrecon right now, there are two pages of Longines selling/sold over the past 31 days. There are plenty of eyeballs out there to see and buy your watch.


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## junta

I agree that pricing is an important factor. I wouldn't buy a secondhand anything (except land) if there wasn't a significant advantage in pricing. 20-30% off isn't going to cut it.


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## TempusFazool

I had a hard time selling a Longines Conquest GMT that I bought new, several years back. Took a big hit. Ending up warily selling to someone on ebay on the other side of the world.


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## yankeexpress

Until getting online and researching watches, I thought longines only sold ornate womens styled watches.


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## James Haury

rfortson said:


> Lots of derp in this thread. Longines makes fine watches for the money, and are appropriately positioned. Their column wheel chronograph is by far the most affordable Swiss column wheel made, making it an excellent value. As for the name "Longines" not being recognized, I'm not sure what to say about that. The Longines name and brand has been around (and advertised) for decades at the minimum. If you want other people to "like" your watch (for whatever reason), buy a Nixon or an Apple watch, or something trendy. If you want a quality watch with heritage and good company backing, buy a Longines (or many others in the price range).
> 
> As for resale value, that fluctuates like everything else. If it's not selling, you're asking too much. Period. Watches (regardless of the brand) sell for about 50-75% of the lowest gray market price you can find. People who have trouble selling their watch usually think they found a "amazing deal" that no one else knew about and they're going to try to make out by selling it for some percentage off the retail price, not the price they actually paid new. That's a fool's errand.


If you want to hear some advertising for LONGINES go to prelinger archives click on audio and go to oldtime radio look for HGWT(have ---will travel)you will hear an ad for LONGINES in almost every episode plus you will listen to great radio.


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## crappbag

Surprisingly the Legend Diver seems to do quite well in terms of demand and even resale value predominantly for the no-date legend diver. The date version seems to fair similarly in terms of ~50% off retail value but demand for that model also seems to be high based on what I've seen having spend a fair amount of time watching that market before I purchased my own.


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## rfortson

TempusFazool said:


> I had a hard time selling a Longines Conquest GMT that I bought new, several years back. Took a big hit. Ending up warily selling to someone on ebay on the other side of the world.


Describe "big hit". What percentage off of MSRP did you originally pay, and what percentage off of your sales price did you sell for?

If you overpaid up front, you're going to get a big hit when you sell (says Capt. Obvious).


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## GregoryD

I think Longines is great, but their marketing is poor. They have a great back catalog to draw from, but way too many models that are poorly executed. If they concentrated on a few core models that were really well done I think it would help brand awareness and potentially resale.


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## b.watcher

GregoryD said:


> I think Longines is great, but their marketing is poor. They have a great back catalog to draw from, but way too many models that are poorly executed. If they concentrated on a few core models that were really well done I think it would help brand awareness and potentially resale.


Poorly executed? give me a break. we're talking about longines here, not tissot or certina.


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## GregoryD

b.watcher said:


> Poorly executed? give me a break. we're talking about longines here, not tissot or certina.


I don't follow you. What does the price point have to do with whether a watch is well-executed or not?


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## b.watcher

well, maybe i was missing your Point. but i really can't think of any longines model that is badly executed.


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## publandlord

b.watcher said:


> well, maybe i was missing your Point. but i really can't think of any longines model that is badly executed.


A lot of WIS can't stand the date windows. They think these watches are "poorly executed" (and as date wndows go, I've seen more elegant integrations), but the market - which buys 1.2 million Longines per year - obviously thinks they're executed just fine. If I was Longines, and my mandate was to continue selling 1.2m watches, I know what I'd do!


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## b.watcher

publandlord said:


> A lot of WIS can't stand the date windows. They think these watches are "poorly executed" (and as date wndows go, I've seen more elegant integrations), but the market - which buys 1.2 million Longines per year - obviously thinks they're executed just fine. If I was Longines, and my mandate was to continue selling 1.2m watches, I know what I'd do!


the date window could be integrated better or more symmetrical, that is true. i also dislike it very much when it's between 4 and 5 o'clock. but it also a very useful complication, since i find myself on a workday more than once glancing at the watch to see the date and not the actual time. 
and the Problem alltogether would be more the design then, not the execution of it. wouldn't you agree? i still think longines gives you very much for the Money!


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## AAAAAThats6As

while I don't disagree, it's pretty frustrating how all the watches on my list never seem to be selling used for much of a deal haha



junta said:


> I agree that pricing is an important factor. I wouldn't buy a secondhand anything (except land) if there wasn't a significant advantage in pricing. 20-30% off isn't going to cut it.


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## Pipwatch

Longines is still a regarded brand in Asia - and I am fond of their retro aviator/military type models. However, as has been mentioned, its marketing needs to be developed. It needs to be more in tune with the lifestyle of the non-Rolex (now talk about marketing here!) - i.e. VFM with class - market-place it should be fiercely targeting. For most, the brand fails to make a clear, distinctive statement as to what it stands for and perhaps create a cult following (check what Seiko - the springboard to the GS - has achieved through quality innovation). Theodore Leavitt wisely opined "marketing is about one thing and one thing only: DIFFERENTIATION". Longines' marketing needs to do it justice rather than to allow it to be another 'me too' offering.


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## mr_raider

Marketing ain't the issue. Longines unfortunately is being squeezed in the swatch lineup. For cheap mechanical nothing beats Hamilton. Look at their new navy frogman in blue or black Titanium and tell me it's not stunning. At the high end you have Omega. That leaves a thin slot for Longines to insert itself in. They need to do distinguish themselves in someway. Build quality is there, but Oris and Tudor also build excellent watches.


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## Pipwatch

Marketing is actually pretty wide in what it encompasses - the '5 Ps': Product (design, content, quality, material, packaging, functionality etc), Place (location and distribution), Promotion and Advertising, Price and People (external and internal). It is like a cobweb; touch one part and the rest is affected. But, man! I love Hamiltons - the Pan Europs (chrono and non), Ventura and GMT are some great ones. :-!:-!:-!


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## Pipwatch

A very nice Longines Spirit Big Chrono (43mm auto) just sold on Catawiki today for £1,207 excl P&P.


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## AngusBC3

Interesting topic!
I have always been an Oris wearer but just bought my first non Oris watch (Longines Hydro Conquest) one week ago, when I travelled to my nearest city and went round all the main jewellers shops.
My take on all this is the following;

All the jewellers seemed to push Oris more than most brands, so I am guessing they are taking a bigger mark up!?!

In my part of the world Longines is well known and the main jewellers stock them along with Oris, Omega, Tag, Zenith and Hamilton which seem to be the main brands that Scottish jewellers sell.

I think in Europe they have appeal but because possibly they are big on Lady watches and maybe don't have the same macho image as Oris for example then they are not in the 'trend'.

I agree with many comments on this post that marketing and image may be an issue but this may be a North American issue and Longines USA / Canada might need some macho deep sea divers for their adverts?


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## Gepetto82

I agree with Angus - interesting topic and that Longines seem to be more well known in Europe. At the same time, the Swatch Group isn't doing much to help the brand in North America. It's in a peculiar spot in the market as not quite at the same level as Omega (or Tudor), but allegedly "better than Tissot and Hamilton." My sense is that they are seen as stodgy here.

I have a small collection of Longines, mostly older pieces. I think only one of them (that dates to 1944) would actually be sell-able. The others (including my Legend Diver from 2015) would prove a bigger challenge unless the price was rock bottom. Though I think the new Legend Diver is a great watch and I've heard it's selling somewhat well new.


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## Makeitfromscratch

It's kind of funny. I've always been a Longines guy. Probably because my dad was. I'm a gen Xer and I find that most of the people who recognize my watches are either jewelers or old enough to have voted for Eisenhower so I can see where the brand might be viewed as "stodgy". There was a discussion on another thread (possibly the Rolex/Tudor thread) some time ago where we argued that, due to actions of the parent companies, both Tudor and Longines were and are "kept" within certain parameters. Both brands, with a little extra finish here and a little extra tweak there, could very easily stomp the competition within their respective conglomerates. Price and resale are affected by this. If your a seller in the used market, you may have to take a beating while the person on the other side of the trade may get an excellent timepiece for a reasonable price.


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## rfortson

I'd still be interested in seeing some examples of the initial purchase price vs. the later asking price to sell that shows Longines as hard to sell. I suspect a lot of people are overpaying initially. Nothing to be ashamed of, as I've overpaid on occasion (for the AD experience, want it now, whatever), but I don't then turn around and blame the brand for being "hard to sell" when I try to resell it. I just review the used market for my watch beforehand and price accordingly. Watches, cars, whatever...they can ALL be easy or hard to sell. But priced properly, they will all sell in a timely manner.


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## ABN Medic

I like the watch, but have my eye on a similar Hamilton. 

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## Mediocre

Longines as a brand is not as well recognized as the "mainstream" brands, but those who know watches respect Longines. They advertise in the right places for their audience IMHO. 

I do not think Longines is the issue with the OP. The OP is trying to sell a watch that is a love-or-hate design. It is not for everyone, and it is probably not for most. There is a lot on that dial, and most people would have no idea what any of it is for. Couple that with a rather bulky case, and it is a watch that appeals to a very specific buyer. Many of *those* types of buyers (especially for a brand such as Longines) may just go buy new.


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## Rosco53

This is a really touchy topic for me. After al lifetime of Rolex ownership, a few years ago I moved to Omega. Get with the hip crowd....

I found it very hard to sell my Omegas. No one wanted them. 

I then bought a Longines Heritage Polar. Limited edition (number 160) - only Longines wont tell me how many its limited to! I still have it - only because no one will take it off me. 

Basically l cant give it away. 

I'm not very happy about this. Its a nice looking military style watch, reasonable movement (ETA 2892-A2) and keeps good time. 

But I wish I hadn't bought it.

Edit: To add, its not as if we don't have brand awareness in Sydney. there is a prominent Longines shop, big posters and signs everywhere, sponsorship of events etc. 

The problem seems to be they are stuck in that lower end segment, with the resulting massive depreciation.


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## RDKNFD

Interesting topic. I always thought of Longines as a really classy and storied brand... I guess they don't have the marketing figured out right, at least stateside. I don't see any reason why they can't compete with Tag Heuer, Omega, brands like that.


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## RDKNFD

That's a fair point, it's not as simple as a three hander or a dive watch or something, there's more going on.


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## junta

I don't think it's marketing. The price, most likely, isn't realistic for a second hand item. 

People tend to compare the resale value of Rolex with other brand, but I would never buy a second hand Rolex at the prices I hear people boasting about. If one is to buy something second hand that's even close to full price, why bother?


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## Rosco53

junta said:


> I don't think it's marketing. The price, most likely, isn't realistic for a second hand item.
> 
> People tend to compare the resale value of Rolex with other brand, but I would never buy a second hand Rolex at the prices I hear people boasting about. If one is to buy something second hand that's even close to full price, why bother?


In my case its not just the price, its getting ANY price.

Second Hand Dealers: "sorry we don't buy second hand Longines".

Longines shop: "sorry sir, we don't buy old watches"

Gumtree: Zero, ZERO offers. Not even a "give you $100 for it mate"

Other watch collectors: no interest at all.

To a man they all ask if I am selling my Rolex Polar explorer, my DateJust, even my old 1965 two tone Perp. "give you a good price for that one mate, they always sell well"

I could break up my 65 Perp and sell it for parts. The 1570 movement alone would make more than I paid for it.

I could break up my Longines but who wants an ETA movement. I can buy them on the internet for peanuts.

On my way to work I pass a second hand shop. It has had a Longine Heritage Diver in the window for OVER TWO YEARS. $2700. Seeing that just reinforces my opinion: Longines are a lifetime watch - because you wont be able to get rid of it.


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## junta

2.7k for a used LD? That's crazy pricing and it's no wonder it's not selling. As for your other points, I kinda agree. Modern Longines doesn't leave much for collectors. Then again, the price point isn't very exclusive.


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## mr_raider

Let's be honest here, other than Rolex, nothing holds its value. Not Longines, not Omega (other than the speedy pro) and certainly not Tag. Even a high end brand like JLC will suffer severe depreciation.

Flipping watches is not a game for the poor. I personally never sold a watch I bought. But I am very careful about what I buy.


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## AngusBC3

I always had Oris and always sold them no problem at around 5 years old, to fund my next Oris.

However, Oris seem to have rocketed in price over the past few years, so I went for the Longines Hydro Conquest this time because I figured out that it's every bit as good as the oris but costing 55% of the equivalent Oris.

As it's my first Longines, I will have wait and see, but I think the Hydro Conquest will have an easy resale, here in Europe anyway.
I think it's an American marketing issue?!? Image is everything in the modern world.
Longines is the highest selling Swiss watch at something like 1,000,000 pieces per year.


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## publandlord

mr_raider said:


> Marketing ain't the issue. Longines unfortunately is being squeezed in the swatch lineup. For cheap mechanical nothing beats Hamilton. Look at their new navy frogman in blue or black Titanium and tell me it's not stunning. At the high end you have Omega. That leaves a thin slot for Longines to insert itself in. They need to do distinguish themselves in someway. Build quality is there, but Oris and Tudor also build excellent watches.


They sell 1.2 million watches a year, and China is far and away their biggest market. Looks like they're doing just fine .


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## publandlord

Rosco53 said:


> In my case its not just the price, its getting ANY price.
> 
> Second Hand Dealers: "sorry we don't buy second hand Longines".
> 
> Longines shop: "sorry sir, we don't buy old watches"


To be fair, Australia is about Longines' worst marketing nightmare. In three years of living and working there donkey's years ago I noticed only two watches on people who could spend more than a few hundred notes on a watch - Aquaracer and Seamaster. Maybe the occasional DateJust. Like it was part of some uniform.


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## rfortson

Rosco53 said:


> In my case its not just the price, its getting ANY price.
> 
> Second Hand Dealers: "sorry we don't buy second hand Longines".
> 
> Longines shop: "sorry sir, we don't buy old watches"
> 
> Gumtree: Zero, ZERO offers. Not even a "give you $100 for it mate"
> 
> Other watch collectors: no interest at all.
> 
> To a man they all ask if I am selling my Rolex Polar explorer, my DateJust, even my old 1965 two tone Perp. "give you a good price for that one mate, they always sell well"
> 
> I could break up my 65 Perp and sell it for parts. The 1570 movement alone would make more than I paid for it.
> 
> I could break up my Longines but who wants an ETA movement. I can buy them on the internet for peanuts.
> 
> *On my way to work I pass a second hand shop. It has had a Longine Heritage Diver in the window for OVER TWO YEARS. $2700. Seeing that just reinforces my opinion: Longines are a lifetime watch - because you wont be able to get rid of it.*


Yep, just as I suspected. People pay retail (or near retail) and expect to resell for 85% of that price. It ain't happening, and it's not the name on the dial.

A second hand dealer is selling a Heritage Diver for $2700? That's insane! I can find multiple new versions right now for $1600-$2200.

Again, be smart with the original purchase, check the market and price accordingly, and it will sell.


----------



## mr_raider

publandlord said:


> They sell 1.2 million watches a year, and China is far and away their biggest market. Looks like they're doing just fine .


Ahh yes, the Buick of the swatch group.

Why Chinese Buyers Love Buick - Business Insider


----------



## AngusBC3

publandlord said:


> To be fair, Australia is about Longines' worst marketing nightmare. In three years of living and working there donkey's years ago I noticed only two watches on people who could spend more than a few hundred notes on a watch - Aquaracer and Seamaster. Maybe the occasional DateJust. Like it was part of some uniform.


I think the Aussies are big on Oris Divers.
I get the impression they are a very sporting nation, so probably Divers are their most sought after watches?!?


----------



## junta

rfortson said:


> Yep, just as I suspected. People pay retail (or near retail) and expect to resell for 85% of that price. It ain't happening, and it's not the name on the dial.
> 
> A second hand dealer is selling a Heritage Diver for $2700? That's insane! I can find multiple new versions right now for $1600-$2200.
> 
> Again, be smart with the original purchase, check the market and price accordingly, and it will sell.


Yes, people tend to sell used watches with unreasonable asking prices. I have multiple hobbies and watch people seem to be more inclined to delusion.


----------



## Makeitfromscratch

Yes sir. A lot of people also look at the asking price on, say, eBay and think that is what the watch is worth. They never bother to see for how much it sold, if it sold. To all newbies, do not EVER pay list price for a watch. As with all jewelry, the markups are greatly padded. Granted, there are exceptions. Rare and vintage pieces are often bid up due to demand etc., but don't get carried away unless you know the value is there. Everything has a rational and reasonable "number". When that number is exceeded, pause and think. Walk if you have to. 

Secondly, as Junta said, most people listing used watches are either delusional or they are just throwing out a number to see if it sticks. 

Of course, this does not apply to that " f$#k it, I just want it" scenario.  C'mon, we've all been there.


----------



## Rosco53

A lot of accurate comments here. Let me see if I have got it right:

1. Longines aren't worth new the sticker price in the AD. anyone wanting to buy a new one should go into the AD with about half the asking price and walk out with a new watch. Ergo Longines are a cheap watch with a fake price sticker on them.....

2. Second hand Longines drop massively in value to the point where you just cannot move them. I will be buried in mine (because I cant get rid of it). My Rolexes will easily sell for a lot more than I paid, and cover the cost of a first class funeral.

3. Australia is a tough place for Longines. So tough there is a Longine shop in Pitt Street. And they sponsor the Golden Slipper horse race. And lots of other events.

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/...-racing-right-fit-sponsorship-giant-longines/

4. Rule 1 applies to all watches apart from "rare and vintage pieces. "Which explains why my Rolex AD called security and had me thrown out when I offered them $50 and tried to walk out with a new Submariner. Except that you cant even get Subbies and have a long waiting list of people offering list price....

Sorry to appear cynical chaps, but I am the one stuck with a watch which CLEARLY isn't worth what Longines told me it was.

Can anyone tell me what price my Longines Heritage Polar Limited Edition (limited to how many? No one will tell me) needs to be offered at to sell.....

I wont buy another one.


----------



## Gepetto82

As somewhat of a Longines collector (I've got 5, mostly vintage), I think there are a couple lessons to be learned.

1) If you want a fairly new Longines, you're better off getting a deal on a 2nd hand one and save yourself quite a bit of money
2) If you want to view a Longines as an "investment" (like many do for Rolex, etc.), think about buying a good vintage one.

On point #2, the right Longines from prior to about 1970 can actually be seen as an asset. But, of course, you have to find the right one. There's a few out there that can at least hold their value (provided you didn't overpay in the first place.


----------



## Makeitfromscratch

Rosco53 mentioned Rolex. Good example of a company that pulled all of its Mom and Pop franchises in an effort to control pricing. Swatch Group did the same with Omega. Many dealers were "working" with the customer in an effort to make everybody happy. That affects the used market. The problem is that Rolex is a super saturated market. They had to control the "new" market and therefore, by extension, the used market. It will work for a while, but the worm will turn. The next economic downturn is approaching.


----------



## Gepetto82

I agree the economic downturn is approaching, but that will affect all brands, I'd think.


----------



## junta

Rosco53 said:


> A lot of accurate comments here. Let me see if I have got it right:
> 
> 1. Longines aren't worth new the sticker price in the AD. anyone wanting to buy a new one should go into the AD with about half the asking price and walk out with a new watch. Ergo Longines are a cheap watch with a fake price sticker on them.....
> 
> 2. Second hand Longines drop massively in value to the point where you just cannot move them. I will be buried in mine (because I cant get rid of it). My Rolexes will easily sell for a lot more than I paid, and cover the cost of a first class funeral.
> 
> 3. Australia is a tough place for Longines. So tough there is a Longine shop in Pitt Street. And they sponsor the Golden Slipper horse race. And lots of other events.
> 
> https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/...-racing-right-fit-sponsorship-giant-longines/
> 
> 4. Rule 1 applies to all watches apart from "rare and vintage pieces. "Which explains why my Rolex AD called security and had me thrown out when I offered them $50 and tried to walk out with a new Submariner. Except that you cant even get Subbies and have a long waiting list of people offering list price....
> 
> Sorry to appear cynical chaps, but I am the one stuck with a watch which CLEARLY isn't worth what Longines told me it was.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what price my Longines Heritage Polar Limited Edition (limited to how many? No one will tell me) needs to be offered at to sell.....
> 
> I wont buy another one.


1. We're talking about second hand watches, not new.

2. Your Rolex will sell with the right pricing. Try selling it with brand new pricing, as per the AD selling the used LD.

About Longines lying about pricing, take a look at what your local Government thinks of the value of your home. You will note that its significantly less than the price you paid for it. Same goes for your Starbucks drink. Cynicism involves reality and motivations, and not the act of complaining or ignorance.


----------



## Rosco53

Gepetto82 said:


> As somewhat of a Longines collector (I've got 5, mostly vintage), I think there are a couple lessons to be learned.
> 
> 1) If you want a fairly new Longines, you're better off getting a deal on a 2nd hand one and save yourself quite a bit of money
> 2) If you want to view a Longines as an "investment" (like many do for Rolex, etc.), think about buying a good vintage one.
> 
> On point #2, the right Longines from prior to about 1970 can actually be seen as an asset. But, of course, you have to find the right one. There's a few out there that can at least hold their value (provided you didn't overpay in the first place.


Agreed in full. Some of the vintage Longines are spectacular, and would be good investments. I have looked at several and admired their beauty, and I believe Longines movements of old were excellent.

I really don't look on watches as investments, but as things of beauty that are nice to own. I will hang on to my Longines, wear it with pride and admire its perfect lines.

Unless someone offers me money for it.


----------



## Rosco53

junta said:


> 1. We're talking about second hand watches, not new.
> 
> 2. Your Rolex will sell with the right pricing. Try selling it with brand new pricing, as per the AD selling the used LD.
> 
> About Longines lying about pricing, take a look at what your local Government thinks of the value of your home. You will note that its significantly less than the price you paid for it. Same goes for your Starbucks drink. Cynicism involves reality and motivations, and not the act of complaining or ignorance.


Agreed in full. But I wont take a 90% loss on my Rolex - which is what I am looking at with a Longines that NO ONE wants to buy. Not even a bargain basement offer.

Even hinting in the bar that I will sell a Rolex gets wallets out.

The differences in your examples:

The government can think what it likes about the price of my home. I'm not selling it to the government. As I used to argue about Back and Sholes, something is worth what someone will pay for it, not what a calculated price is.

and Starbucks - I'm not trying to sell a half sipped coffee on George Street.

Any company that has a poor resale price for its products is up the creek without a paddle. ask the automobile industry.

But I'm not complaining, I am informing. Buy a new Longines at your peril because you will be stuck with it.


----------



## junta

Rosco53 said:


> Agreed in full. But I wont take a 90% loss on my Rolex - which is what I am looking at with a Longines that NO ONE wants to buy. Not even a bargain basement offer.
> 
> Even hinting in the bar that I will sell a Rolex gets wallets out.
> 
> The differences in your examples:
> 
> The government can think what it likes about the price of my home. I'm not selling it to the government. As I used to argue about Back and Sholes, something is worth what someone will pay for it, not what a calculated price is.
> 
> and Starbucks - I'm not trying to sell a half sipped coffee on George Street.
> 
> Any company that has a poor resale price for its products is up the creek without a paddle. ask the automobile industry.
> 
> But I'm not complaining, I am informing. Buy a new Longines at your peril because you will be stuck with it.


Your initial argument was about disproportionate value, hense the examples I provided.

If you're unable to sell your watch at a price point you're comfortable with, I will have to concede that point.

About your motives, it doesn't seem to be an attempt to inform but to sway. You're free to do so, however.


----------



## publandlord

mr_raider said:


> Ahh yes, the Buick of the swatch group.
> 
> Why Chinese Buyers Love Buick - Business Insider


And your assertion that Longines is being squeezed out and no-one buys them, again...?


----------



## publandlord

AngusBC3 said:


> I think the Aussies are big on Oris Divers.
> I get the impression they are a very sporting nation, so probably Divers are their most sought after watches?!?


They've always been big on divers. However this doesn't seem to have improved the nation's fitness, as 65% of its adults are obese.


----------



## publandlord

Rosco53 said:


> Any company that has a poor resale price for its products is up the creek without a paddle. ask the automobile industry.


Are watches and cars the same? Do you not understand the difference?

I am sure Longines, as the biggest mid-tier brand in the world, which is opening boutiques in China just as darling brands are shutting theirs in the west, is very concerned over a handful of enthusiasts concerned about the asset value upon disposal of some of its current-production models.


> But I'm not complaining, I am informing. Buy a new Longines at your peril because you will be stuck with it.


You mean, buy a watch and not worry about its resale value? How crazy is that!

And _informing? _


----------



## IvanC

In the USA Longines seems to have lost whatever cachet it might have had. I love my Longines tonneau dress watch, and got it used for a great price, but I remember showing it to my fiance and she said "Longines, are those good watches?" Perhaps it is because it is an older brand and people remember seeing them in department stores long before what are considered modern luxury brands. I remember Longines and Omega from when I was a kid, but somehow Omega seems to have come out of the past with a much stronger reputation.


----------



## Gepetto82

Maybe trying to sell a 2nd hand Longines in Europe will be more fruitful? They are somewhat better known there and haven't lost all their cachet...

I have a 2 year old Legend Diver that, yes, I worry if I'll make my money back. But when I bought it, I had no intention of ever selling it. It's a lovely watch that I love wearing, frankly. Though, I admit that it's nice when we can consider a watch as an "asset" that, if need be, could be sold in a pinch for actual cash. Right now, few brands have that claim that will hold their value reasonably well, especially if purchased 2nd hand (Rolex, perhaps some Omegas, a few vintage Longines, some IWC). 

At least watches don't require as much money to maintain as a (classic) car. I can have my simpler watches overhauled for $150 every 7 years. A car would require thousands in that time, probably in insurance alone.


----------



## IvanC

I tend to mostly own "bargain" watches that have low resale. The plus side is that I buy them used at very low prices. Personally I think Eterna is another quality brand like Longines that can be purchased at very low prices. But as you point out, you can't really consider them much of an asset.



Gepetto82 said:


> I have a 2 year old Legend Diver that, yes, I worry if I'll make my money back. But when I bought it, I had no intention of ever selling it. It's a lovely watch that I love wearing, frankly. Though, I admit that it's nice when we can consider a watch as an "asset" that, if need be, could be sold in a pinch for actual cash. Right now, few brands have that claim that will hold their value reasonably well, especially if purchased 2nd hand (Rolex, perhaps some Omegas, a few vintage Longines, some IWC).


----------



## publandlord

IvanC said:


> In the USA Longines seems to have lost whatever cachet it might have had. I love my Longines tonneau dress watch, and got it used for a great price, but I remember showing it to my fiance and she said "Longines, are those good watches?" Perhaps it is because it is an older brand and people remember seeing them in department stores long before what are considered modern luxury brands. I remember Longines and Omega from when I was a kid, but somehow Omega seems to have come out of the past with a much stronger reputation.


Longines deliberately targets older people in the rest of the world, and a broader range of ages in China and Korea. The Japanese are also big buyers. It is no surprise that younger people in Australia, the US or the UK where people buy sportier, brasher designs (and ironically are more obese and sedentary...*) either have no idea what it is, or if they do, think "my grandfather had one of those".

You could argue that Longines should do more to targets Gen-Yers and millennials but then they've have to make even more than 1.2m watches a year, and that would encroach on Tissot. As it is, they're probably happy marketing and selling to older generations, if that's even allowed any more!

Longines just opened yet another boutique the other day, in Macau. It seems to open about one a month.

* Fact, irrefutable and unquestionable


----------



## publandlord

Gepetto82 said:


> Maybe trying to sell a 2nd hand Longines in Europe will be more fruitful? They are somewhat better known there and haven't lost all their cachet...


If it was possible to sell into China, then there's a huge market there. But they don't seem as happy with secondhand stuff, and their heavy import taxes and duties means that buying from another country is expensive. I don't even know how they would treat secondhand goods for valuation.

I wonder if selling to Japan or Korea is better.

Interesting to see watches _reverse _in globalisation terms, and go back to local or regional reputations and markets - after a couple of decades of manufacturers trying to harmonise their brands. Unfortunately though, the internet is global, which means you get more arguments on places like here.


----------



## junta

publandlord said:


> Longines deliberately targets older people in the rest of the world, and a broader range of ages in China and Korea. The Japanese are also big buyers. It is no surprise that younger people in Australia, the US or the UK where people buy sportier, brasher designs (and ironically are more obese and sedentary...*) either have no idea what it is, or if they do, think "my grandfather had one of those".
> 
> You could argue that Longines should do more to targets Gen-Yers and millennials but then they've have to make even more than 1.2m watches a year, and that would encroach on Tissot. As it is, they're probably happy marketing and selling to older generations, if that's even allowed any more!
> 
> Longines just opened yet another boutique the other day, in Macau. It seems to open about one a month.
> 
> * Fact, irrefutable and unquestionable


Ouch.


----------



## Makeitfromscratch

I'm one of those who never "had" or wanted to sell a watch so the idea of resale doesn't occur to me. However, that doesn't prevent me from seeking the best purchase price possible. I've given pieces to dear friends who showed a particular interest, but always with the caveat of: you sell this, I will end you.  

Someone mentioned millennials. In my area, if they wear a watch, it's a "fashion" watch...Invicta, low end Fossil, Guess, something like that. In fact, I went out to lunch with my wife the other day and we happened to be seated next to a young couple. He was wearing the most Pimpalicious watch I've ever seen and the kicker was that it wasn't even running. But hey, he was pimpin', yo. It's all about, "How do I look."


----------



## IvanC

In the Pacific Northwest I've noticed the "smart watch" is the new fashion statement. A fashion statement that needs to be charged often and will be obsolete every year or so, but somehow it is a fashion statement. Not my thing, but the fact that people feel that an electronic communication tool that will be in a landfill in five years is somehow a fashion statement is a sad commentary on our society.



Makeitfromscratch said:


> Someone mentioned millennials. In my area, if they wear a watch, it's a "fashion" watch...Invicta, low end Fossil, Guess, something like that. In fact, I went out to lunch with my wife the other day and we happened to be seated next to a young couple. He was wearing the most Pimpalicious watch I've ever seen and the kicker was that it wasn't even running. But hey, he was pimpin', yo. It's all about, "How do I look."


----------



## yankeexpress

publandlord said:


> Longines deliberately targets older people in the rest of the world, and a broader range of ages in China and Korea. The Japanese are also big buyers. It is no surprise that younger people in Australia, the US or the UK where people buy sportier, brasher designs (and ironically are more obese and sedentary...*) either have no idea what it is, or if they do, think "my grandfather had one of those".
> 
> * Fact, irrefutable and unquestionable


"I also don't post opinions as fact, much less them try to defend them as such!"


----------



## Makeitfromscratch

I agree with you IvanC. I have watches that are 60, 70, 75 years old and still running strong. Let's see a smart watch do that. Side note, If I get a compliment on the watch that I'm wearing, it's usually a vintage piece. Our dads and Grand dads had it goin' on.


----------



## publandlord

yankeexpress said:


> "I also don't post opinions as fact, much less them try to defend them as such!"


Are you telling me that Longines _doesn't _target a broader range of ages in China in order to sustain its position as the top-selling Swiss brand there? Or that presenting the watches as elegant rather than sporting _is _actually attractive to younger Gen-Yers and millennials who are out buying iWatches and G-Shocks? Or that Longines' most notable heyday _wasn't_ in the 1950s and (perhaps) 1960s, which means that younger people's grandparents are more likely to have bought them then? Or that people in the USA, Britain and Australia _aren't _amongst the most obese countries in the west, as measured by every objective, despite their penchant for buying anything with the word "Sport" in the title or the marketing material?

Understanding Chinaâ€™s wealthy | McKinsey & Company

8 months ago Longines binned its US marketing agency to try to improve its awareness amongst younger buyers: Longines Names Higloss Media Aor | Social Race Media

Ths article shows how Longines was trying to reposition itself in Australia several years ago, you can measure for yourself how well you think it's done so far ("selling luxury to the rugged"): https://www.marketingmag.com.au/hubs-c/luxurious-but-functional-longines-brand-profile/

This is from 2013 but I'd put more dinner money on more than half of Longines' sales still coming from Asia, probably more as their sales there are robust whereas general watches sales seem to be falling in the West and elsewhere (I don't have the numbers but I'm sure I could find them, or a suitable proxy):

https://www.jurawatches.co.uk/blogs/watch-news/8062555-chinas-most-wanted-watch-brands

You could argue back that "facts" are just opinions with citations to back them up. Which would be facile, vapid and thoroughly... _millennial.
_


----------



## eco8gator

Longines of the past (before the quartz crisis)=great quality watches

Longines of the present=meh...the brand lost its relevance which is a shame

Put it this way...if Zenith can't get any love why would anyone expect the same from Longines. Zenith has some amazing chronographs with the legendary EP movement and even at discounted prices they are very difficult to sell.

Now on a very positive note the throw back Longines pieces look great...definitely the right direction to go for this brand. The Longines Heritage Diver Chronograph is the best of the bunch in my opinion...I own the original 8224 Valjoux 72 version from the 1960's...love it.


----------



## junta

eco8gator said:


> Longines of the past (before the quartz crisis)=great quality watches
> 
> Longines of the present=meh...the brand lost its relevance which is a shame


What makes a watch brand "relevant"?


----------



## shtora

eco8gator said:


> Longines of the past (before the quartz crisis)=great quality watches
> 
> Longines of the present=meh...the brand lost its relevance which is a shame


Agree on the first statement.
But Longines of the present is one of the most successful watch brands in the world, they have far exceeded the results of L. of the past. Longines is currently one of the best selling watch brands and in Top 5 in terms of annual turnover. This is Swatch Group. They make money. And Longines is one of the most successful contributors in the Group (which needs money also for investments, like co-ax. This money comes from somewhere). IMO, in today's competitive watch world with hundreds of new and revived brands at any and all price and quality levels, the result of Longines, while still keeping the philosophy to offer relatively affordable, yet classy, beautiful and high-quality products, is outstanding and deserves admiration!


----------



## eco8gator

Let me be more clear...

Longines used to compete with the likes of Rolex. I am currently wearing a Longines 8224-2, Valjoux 72 based diving chronograph from the late 60's...believe me I know what Longines used to put on the market.

Now Longines is just trying to maintain market share of the mid tier watch lineup...

Swatch may have kept the Longines name alive but the outcome of the whole thing is like a lion that has been in a cage for years...simply put the brand has lost the fire it once had. I agree that every brand can't compete for the top spot especially if they are owned by a conglomerate like Swatch...they have their place in the pecking order. But I will say they are moving in the right direction with their heritage lineup (just like Tudor).


----------



## NunoGMR

Longines used to compete with higher stake brands (Rolex, JLC, etc.). Now it doesn't: it fits in a very well defined price range. This happens because it is not an independent watch manufacturer, it is just a brand within a larger group (Swatch) that has a strategy of keeping its brands in rather well defined price ranges. This is no problem, most modern watch brands are just that: brands working in more or less well defined market ranges. The Richemont group has a policy of allowing more competition between brands, with mixed results.

However one must not that Longines owns the market in its well defined market range. It is the number 1 in sales worldwide (in its price range) and I believe that it is probably the brand that brings more profit to the Swatch group. Thus IMO it can be seen as the most successfull brand of the group.

Regarding it being easy or hard to sell: it works more or less like all the other brands that don't have Rolex written on the dial.


----------



## IvanC

I love mine for dressier occasions.


----------



## Rosco53

junta said:


> About your motives, it doesn't seem to be an attempt to inform but to sway. You're free to do so, however.


I didn't intend it to look that way, and if it did I apologise.

However, nothing alters the simple fact that I have a limited edition Longines that no one wants.

Yes, I am the mug who bought it. Mea Culpa.

Yes, its a great looking watch, keeps great time etc. No complaints.

No, in answer to an earlier post I am not obese. I am 63 years old, 179 tall and 72kg. I am ex military and as fit as a fiddle.

No, I didn't buy it as a sports watch.

Non of that alters a serious value perception in the eyes of the public - AND in the eyes of Longines. When I took it into the new Longines shop they looked on me like a tramp trying to scam a dollar, not someone simply asking if they bought second hand Longines. The entire attitude was that of a scam artist dealing with a fleeced customer. (It didn't help that none of the staff spoke English as a first language, which indicates where the marketing effort is going)

Value perception is a complex subject, and its not a simple as charging a lot for a product. It involves brand recognition via having a lot of history behind the product, having high level promotions etc, and quality perception by having a high quality product.

ALL of which Longines have got right.

So why when Unwound did a survey of value loss in the first year did Longines show a 63% loss of value? That's some depreciation - unacceptable depreciation.

What are they doing wrong?


----------



## junta

Rosco53 said:


> I didn't intend it to look that way, and if it did I apologise.
> 
> However, nothing alters the simple fact that I have a limited edition Longines that no one wants.
> 
> Yes, I am the mug who bought it. Mea Culpa.
> 
> Yes, its a great looking watch, keeps great time etc. No complaints.
> 
> No, in answer to an earlier post I am not obese. I am 63 years old, 179 tall and 72kg. I am ex military and as fit as a fiddle.
> 
> No, I didn't buy it as a sports watch.
> 
> Non of that alters a serious value perception in the eyes of the public - AND in the eyes of Longines. When I took it into the new Longines shop they looked on me like a tramp trying to scam a dollar, not someone simply asking if they bought second hand Longines. The entire attitude was that of a scam artist dealing with a fleeced customer. (It didn't help that none of the staff spoke English as a first language, which indicates where the marketing effort is going)
> 
> Value perception is a complex subject, and its not a simple as charging a lot for a product. It involves brand recognition via having a lot of history behind the product, having high level promotions etc, and quality perception by having a high quality product.
> 
> ALL of which Longines have got right.
> 
> So why when Unwound did a survey of value loss in the first year did Longines show a 63% loss of value? That's some depreciation - unacceptable depreciation.
> 
> What are they doing wrong?


I'm unsure if it's Longines' fault. The watches are cheap enough to buy new. Maybe that's it. Maybe it's your region. Maybe the price.


----------



## Makeitfromscratch

@IvanC, I have that same model on bracelet. Love it!

@Rosco53, You raise a very subjective point about the heavy depreciation. It goes to things like: is watch "A" a $10,000 dollar watch or is customer "A" a $10,000 dollar customer? Then we get into initial purchase price, popularity of the piece over time, wear and tear upon the piece, ect. Some brands, like Rolex, it doesn't matter, some it does. All of this I'm sure you know I'm just saying it for conversations sake. 

Example, I could buy a very nice 18k Longines with a very nice (not top shelf, but nice) movement for far less than I could buy a stainless DJ. Which will carry greater resale? The DJ. That's the customer not the watch. Dollar for dollar, I'll take gold every time. Why? Because you can deal the price (if it's Longines), gold IS money, and it's just more cool (there's that subjective thing). 

I have been offered obscene amounts, relative to its original purchase price, for my vintage Glycine Pumpkin. That's the customer not the watch. 

As to your comments about being treated poorly and looked down upon by sales people, been there, it's true. Funny how their attitude changes when you pull out that wad of Franklins. And if they want them, the price goes way down. Scumbags.


----------



## bluemartinifan

vintage Longines sells


----------



## rfortson

Rosco53 said:


> So why when Unwound did a survey of value loss in the first year did Longines show a 63% loss of value? That's some depreciation - unacceptable depreciation.
> 
> What are they doing wrong?


Not sure who or what Unwound is, but that result means nothing by itself. What did other brands in the Longines price range do?

And 63% depreciation from what? The MSRP? If so, then I'd say that's probably a good number for not only Longines, but for most Swiss/German brands under $5k.

If you're selling any watch, you're selling against the market. Watch A sells for $4k MSRP, but typical gray market price is ~30-35% less, so now it's a $2700 new watch. As soon as you wear it out of the store, it's a used watch (just like a car) and it takes another hit of ~30%, which means you're selling it for $1800-1900, at best.

This has no relation to the name on the dial, Rolex excepted. The fact that you bought it at an authorized dealer for maybe 5% off doesn't mean you're going to get 75% of $3800 back when you sell it.

It's been said before, but watches are not investments, and they don't hold value.


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## Gepetto82

Rfortson makes a good point. Watches _could_ be investments (especially vintage ones) only if you buy the right watch. But the purpose of a watch is to wear it - and as most used things, it will depreciate.

The analogy to cars is similar. Virtually everything that is new will take a pretty heavy hit. Classic cars (I'm the owner of one) _can_ be an exception but generally you won't make all your money back. I see my classic as a vehicle to enjoy and drive (and spend money to maintain vis-a-vis new parts, etc). If I make _some_ of my money back, I'm happy. And if I sell, I can say that I drove the car and enjoyed it - which is why I have it in the first place.

Though I have to say, part of me wonders why Rolex seems to be the exception. Sure, they make some great watches, but is it really all just marketing?


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## junta

Gepetto82 said:


> Rfortson makes a good point. Watches _could_ be investments (especially vintage ones) only if you buy the right watch. But the purpose of a watch is to wear it - and as most used things, it will depreciate.
> 
> The analogy to cars is similar. Virtually everything that is new will take a pretty heavy hit. Classic cars (I'm the owner of one) _can_ be an exception but generally you won't make all your money back. I see my classic as a vehicle to enjoy and drive (and spend money to maintain vis-a-vis new parts, etc). If I make _some_ of my money back, I'm happy. And if I sell, I can say that I drove the car and enjoyed it - which is why I have it in the first place.
> 
> Though I have to say, part of me wonders why Rolex seems to be the exception. Sure, they make some great watches, but is it really all just marketing?


I think Rolex is doing better because more people want one, especially the casuals. I would never pay a premium for it, though.


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## Makeitfromscratch

It's all mindset. Ask any watchmaker, they can get three times the price for servicing a 3135 over a 2892a2 and there is in no way three times the difficulty or labor assuming it's just a standard cleaning and lubrication. You need some different tools, but they pay for themselves in no time.


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## rfortson

Gepetto82 said:


> Rfortson makes a good point. Watches _could_ be investments (especially vintage ones) only if you buy the right watch. But the purpose of a watch is to wear it - and as most used things, it will depreciate.
> 
> The analogy to cars is similar. Virtually everything that is new will take a pretty heavy hit. Classic cars (I'm the owner of one) _can_ be an exception but generally you won't make all your money back. I see my classic as a vehicle to enjoy and drive (and spend money to maintain vis-a-vis new parts, etc). If I make _some_ of my money back, I'm happy. And if I sell, I can say that I drove the car and enjoyed it - which is why I have it in the first place.
> 
> *Though I have to say, part of me wonders why Rolex seems to be the exception. Sure, they make some great watches, but is it really all just marketing?*


Different topic that's been pondered for a long time. My opinion is that Rolex is the exception because in addition to marketing, and making a nice watch, they tightly control distribution and they don't release eleventy billion different special editions or completely change the look of their signature models (and really, all they have are signature models).

Think about the Omega Seamaster. Now, think about the Rolex Submariner. You can't even begin to think about what I mean by Seamaster, yet Submariner means essentially the same to everyone. (And I'm a big Omega fan.) That consistency helps a watch maintain value. To further that thought, think about the Omega Speedmaster Professional. You pretty much know what that is, and the value of those has held up well over the years (so much so that mine is worth more now than when I bought it 15 years ago).

Anyhoo...that's my take on it.


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## Makeitfromscratch

@rfortson, very well put. When you hear the words "Sub" or "Speedy Pro", of what do you think? It ain't a sandwich or a fast hooker. They are icons, a standard that has withstood time. Classic looks combined with quality parts and craftsmanship; that's what separates the men from the boys. Some are expensive; some are not, but the basic traits are consistent.


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## Rosco53

rfortson said:


> Not sure who or what Unwound is, but that result means nothing by itself. What did other brands in the Longines price range do?
> 
> And 63% depreciation from what? The MSRP? If so, then I'd say that's probably a good number for not only Longines, but for most Swiss/German brands under $5k.
> 
> If you're selling any watch, you're selling against the market. Watch A sells for $4k MSRP, but typical gray market price is ~30-35% less, so now it's a $2700 new watch. As soon as you wear it out of the store, it's a used watch (just like a car) and it takes another hit of ~30%, which means you're selling it for $1800-1900, at best.
> 
> This has no relation to the name on the dial, Rolex excepted. The fact that you bought it at an authorized dealer for maybe 5% off doesn't mean you're going to get 75% of $3800 back when you sell it.
> 
> It's been said before, but watches are not investments, and they don't hold value.


I have never. NEVER lost on a Rolex, and my gains have been above NPV. As I wrote elsewhere my pension, stocks and investments, all sold to me by a bunch of cowboy salesmen, have only ever lost me money. My Rolex have been the stable steady investment.

Why? Price, quality, reputation and value for money. A Rolex isn't an ETA movement in a cheap casing with a fancy dial and a big wannabe price tag - and sadly right now that's how I see Longines.

I take everyone's point here, but I am bitterly disappointed at what has happened, because its costing me money. What was sold to me as a high end limited edition (and therefore scarce) watch simply isn't. Its a cheap ETA with a replica dial. I may as well have bought a fake from Blok M in Jakarta. In fact the return on a fake would be better.


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## Rosco53

rfortson said:


> Submariner means essentially the same to everyone. (And I'm a big Omega fan.) That consistency helps a watch maintain value..


110% agree. By making a consistent slowly changing product, of high quality and internal movement, they have created not only a new demand but also a second hand demand. Last years Ford isn't worth as much because this years model looks different, but all Subs look similar enough to be recognised as such.

Its a good marketing strategy that is keeping second hand prices high.

Dumping a new "Limited edition" on the market every 3 months isn't going to keep resale prices high.

Anyone offer me 750 for my limited edition Longines? I though not. 500? 250???

Its worthless isn't it.

I wont buy another one.


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## JohnM67

The biggest hit I ever took on a watch was on a Longines, lost around 50% of the initial purchase within six months - and it was an LNIB item.
It also took an incredibly long time to sell it.
Despite that I remain a fan of the brand and would probably buy another. 
I have lusted after the the Heritage 1967 Chrono Diver since it came out two years ago but so far refrained from taking the plunge, because of my previous bad experience.
Maybe the wounds are still too raw?


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## b.watcher

Rosco53 said:


> I have never. NEVER lost on a Rolex, and my gains have been above NPV. As I wrote elsewhere my pension, stocks and investments, all sold to me by a bunch of cowboy salesmen, have only ever lost me money. My Rolex have been the stable steady investment.
> 
> Why? Price, quality, reputation and value for money. A Rolex isn't an ETA movement in a cheap casing with a fancy dial and a big wannabe price tag - and sadly right now that's how I see Longines.
> 
> I take everyone's point here, but I am bitterly disappointed at what has happened, because its costing me money. What was sold to me as a high end limited edition (and therefore scarce) watch simply isn't. Its a cheap ETA with a replica dial. I may as well have bought a fake from Blok M in Jakarta. In fact the return on a fake would be better.


a cheap casing with a fancy dial? clearly you have no idea what longines really are! they produce very solid built and good looking watches for a reasonable Price. rolex are nicely built and the movement is superior to eta, no question. but does that justify the Price difference? no way!


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## b.watcher

Sminkypinky said:


> The biggest hit I ever took on a watch was on a Longines, lost around 50% of the initial purchase within six months - and it was an LNIB item.
> It also took an incredibly long time to sell it.
> Despite that I remain a fan of the brand and would probably buy another.
> I have lusted after the the Heritage 1967 Chrono Diver since it came out two years ago but so far refrained from taking the plunge, because of my previous bad experience.
> Maybe the wounds are still too raw?


why is it so important for how much you can re sell a watch? i buy watches i like and with the Intention of keeping them for years to come. i think it's weird to buy watches with the thought in mind on how much i'm gonna get for re selling them. longines are for me the perfect combination of good Quality watches on a reasonable Price tag. i like the brand as it is and i don't like People talk down to it as it was cheap trash like fossil or ingersoll or stuff like that.


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## JohnM67

b.watcher said:


> why is it so important for how much you can re sell a watch? i buy watches i like and with the Intention of keeping them for years to come. i think it's weird to buy watches with the thought in mind on how much i'm gonna get for re selling them. longines are for me the perfect combination of good Quality watches on a reasonable Price tag. i like the brand as it is and i don't like People talk down to it as it was cheap trash like fossil or ingersoll or stuff like that.


Every watch I ever bought was bought with the intention of keeping it. However, things change: maybe redundancy or illness forces one to sell a watch. Or maybe one just falls out of love with the watch.
When that happens, it'd be nice to know that one would get a _reasonable_ return on the watch. And yes, I know that watches are not meant to be investments, and that everyone takes a loss when selling a watch, etc. - I'm just making the point that the Longines was, for me personally, not a wise buy.

P.S. Who says Longines are trash? I certainly don't think so.


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## junta

Never lost money on a Rolex? Maybe you can introduce me to those suckers. 

In all seriousness, it seems that realistic expectations is the deal here.


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## Rosco53

b.watcher said:


> a cheap casing with a fancy dial? clearly you have no idea what longines really are! they produce very solid built and good looking watches for a reasonable Price. rolex are nicely built and the movement is superior to eta, no question. but does that justify the Price difference? no way!


My Longines is a silver dialled ,chrome plated case containing a Swatch owned ETA movement. What more can I say???? Superior to ETA? it IS an ETA!!!!! Put as much lipstick on the pig a you like, its an ETA movement.

My Rolex ALL contain in house movements, some over 50 years old and still going well (including a 1965 1570 movement and a 1963 1225 movement).

The problem is Longines seem to see themselves as fashion watches not quality watches, and the fashion industry work son short term value,. Last years fashionable drainpipe leg suit trousers were expensive to buy but worthless a year later.

In other words Longines have joined the Guess, Michael Kors, Ted Baker, high priced quick turnover, zero resale value market place. All of them make watches.....

And I am left wearing drainpipe trousers at the party. My fault entirely, but not nice for my wallet.


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## b.watcher

Rosco53 said:


> My Longines is a silver dialled ,chrome plated case containing a Swatch owned ETA movement. What more can I say???? Superior to ETA? it IS an ETA!!!!! Put as much lipstick on the pig a you like, its an ETA movement.
> 
> My Rolex ALL contain in house movements, some over 50 years old and still going well (including a 1965 1570 movement and a 1963 1225 movement).
> 
> The problem is Longines seem to see themselves as fashion watches not quality watches, and the fashion industry work son short term value,. Last years fashionable drainpipe leg suit trousers were expensive to buy but worthless a year later.
> 
> In other words Longines have joined the Guess, Michael Kors, Ted Baker, high priced quick turnover, zero resale value market place. All of them make watches.....
> 
> And I am left wearing drainpipe trousers at the party. My fault entirely, but not nice for my wallet.


i can't quite agree to that. especially since longines is going very strong now with theyr heritage Collection. i don't really think thosse watches are just a Fashion Gimmick. they're timeless in design and very well built hence the higher Price on theese models. i agree that they also have models that go with the Fashion. but there is really a lot more to longines than just Fashion. and even the so called Fashion models are nicely built and far from cheap.


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## Makeitfromscratch

"Chrome plated",... well,... that says it all.


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## junta

Thats a good point; "chrome plated" meaning its not polished SS? I think that might be why the watch isn't selling.


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## Makeitfromscratch

Yep, that gives me enough information to keep on walkin'.


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## RogerP

Equating Longines with Michael Kors is truly absurd.


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## Gepetto82

Longines is not as good as Rolex, or even Jaeger, and so forth. But it's not a fashion, bottom of the barrel brand. The watches are good quality, but not worth a lot on the 2nd hand market.

Mercedes-Benz and BMW and Audi cars take a big depreciation hit after 3 years. That $45,000 C class you just bought will only be worth about $20,000 (if you're lucky!) when the warranty runs out and you sell. Does that mean M-B is now just a "regular" car like a Chevy, Ford, or VW? No. What it means is that it's not a Rolls Royce or a Bentley.


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## RogerP

If you walk into a store and pay full retail for a Longines you will take a beating on resale. But you will have only yourself to blame - because who does that? If you buy used, you will be getting a heck of a watch for the money and not lose much if anything on resale. If you get a reasonable discount new, you'll still lose money on resale - but heck - if resale is what matters to you most just stick with Rolex.


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## bigclive2011

Moral of this type of story is buy new, lose loads!!

Buy your cars and watches lightly used at 1-2 years old and you will save that 30% initial depreciation.


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## IvanC

Although, to be fair, Rolls Royce and Bentley have pretty lousy resale values. Most cars do, unless you happen to get that one model that becomes collectible, which is pretty rare. No cars are like Rolex watches in that regard, although some rarer Porsche models have certainly held their value well.



Gepetto82 said:


> Longines is not as good as Rolex, or even Jaeger, and so forth. But it's not a fashion, bottom of the barrel brand. The watches are good quality, but not worth a lot on the 2nd hand market.
> 
> Mercedes-Benz and BMW and Audi cars take a big depreciation hit after 3 years. That $45,000 C class you just bought will only be worth about $20,000 (if you're lucky!) when the warranty runs out and you sell. Does that mean M-B is now just a "regular" car like a Chevy, Ford, or VW? No. What it means is that it's not a Rolls Royce or a Bentley.


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## superultramega

Rosco53 said:


> I have never. NEVER lost on a Rolex, and my gains have been above NPV. As I wrote elsewhere my pension, stocks and investments, all sold to me by a bunch of cowboy salesmen, have only ever lost me money. My Rolex have been the stable steady investment.
> 
> Why? Price, quality, reputation and value for money. A Rolex isn't an ETA movement in a cheap casing with a fancy dial and a big wannabe price tag - and sadly right now that's how I see Longines.
> 
> I take everyone's point here, but I am bitterly disappointed at what has happened, because its costing me money. What was sold to me as a high end limited edition (and therefore scarce) watch simply isn't. Its a cheap ETA with a replica dial. I may as well have bought a fake from Blok M in Jakarta. In fact the return on a fake would be better.


Seems like the larger issue here is that you consistently lose money in all investments besides your Rolex watches. That is depressingly impressive, I recommend you liquidate any remaining investments and buy all the Rolex watches you can.


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## rfortson

Makeitfromscratch said:


> "Chrome plated",... well,... that says it all.


 I'm still wondering which Longines has a chrome plated case. I'd be very surprised if that was actually the case.


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## Richie.L

RogerP said:


> If you walk into a store and pay full retail for a Longines you will take a beating on resale. But you will have only yourself to blame - because who does that? If you buy used, you will be getting a heck of a watch for the money and not lose much if anything on resale. If you get a reasonable discount new, you'll still lose money on resale - but heck - if resale is what matters to you most just stick with Rolex.


Nicely said.


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## mattldm

All this talk about Rolex holding its value so well... Im not so sure, and I know Ill get flamed for this but look at the Explorer II, MSRP $8100. Good luck getting much if any discount at an AD for a new one... These routinely sell for around $5500-$6500 through the forums. Thats a 25-30% depreciation right there. Maybe this is model specific, maybe the Sub "holds its value better" but to me I dont see it. If you buy new, you will lose. Be it watch or car or whatever.


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## Gepetto82

I think it is by model for Rolex, though my sense is most of them are pretty good. But even there, you're much better off buying second hand than new.


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## junta

mattldm said:


> All this talk about Rolex holding its value so well... Im not so sure, and I know Ill get flamed for this but look at the Explorer II, MSRP $8100. Good luck getting much if any discount at an AD for a new one... These routinely sell for around $5500-$6500 through the forums. Thats a 25-30% depreciation right there. Maybe this is model specific, maybe the Sub "holds its value better" but to me I dont see it. If you buy new, you will lose. Be it watch or car or whatever.


I don't get it either. It's not difficult math.


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## Makeitfromscratch

Holds value? Look at Cellini. So much red ink on those it looks like a murder scene.


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## garthb4903

Roscoe,

I'm a newbie of sorts (I've had one Breitling Colt GMT for 13 years) but am looking at Longines. Any chance you want to donate your Longines to me and use it as a tax write off??! 

Garthb


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## Aeliascent

Rosco53 said:


> A lot of accurate comments here. Let me see if I have got it right:
> 
> 1. Longines aren't worth new the sticker price in the AD. anyone wanting to buy a new one should go into the AD with about half the asking price and walk out with a new watch. Ergo Longines are a cheap watch with a fake price sticker on them.....
> 
> 2. Second hand Longines drop massively in value to the point where you just cannot move them. I will be buried in mine (because I cant get rid of it). My Rolexes will easily sell for a lot more than I paid, and cover the cost of a first class funeral.
> 
> 3. Australia is a tough place for Longines. So tough there is a Longine shop in Pitt Street. And they sponsor the Golden Slipper horse race. And lots of other events.
> 
> https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/...-racing-right-fit-sponsorship-giant-longines/
> 
> 4. Rule 1 applies to all watches apart from "rare and vintage pieces. "Which explains why my Rolex AD called security and had me thrown out when I offered them $50 and tried to walk out with a new Submariner. Except that you cant even get Subbies and have a long waiting list of people offering list price....
> 
> Sorry to appear cynical chaps, but I am the one stuck with a watch which CLEARLY isn't worth what Longines told me it was.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what price my Longines Heritage Polar Limited Edition (limited to how many? No one will tell me) needs to be offered at to sell.....
> 
> I wont buy another one.


Gotcha. I'll walk into the Longines dealer at the World Trade Center and go like:

A: "Hi, may I see your Heritage collection?"
B: "Of course sir, right this way."
A: "Thanks! May I try on that Column Wheel Monopusher Chronograph?"
B: "Sure, let me take it out of the case."
A: "Wow, it fits well, a bit tall though. How much is it?"
B: "It goes for three thousand dollars."
A: "Here's fifteen hunnit"


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## publandlord

rfortson said:


> I'm still wondering which Longines has a chrome plated case. I'd be very surprised if that was actually the case.


None of them do. That particular poster has dropped in to curl out a fresh one over Longines and this thread, pulled up his knickers and run away


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## Rosco53

publandlord said:


> None of them do. That particular poster has dropped in to curl out a fresh one over Longines and this thread, pulled up his knickers and run away


No, I'm still here. I have been busy with work trips and trying to sell the damn Longines. Gumtree, Ebay, Cash Converters and every second hand shop I could find, like some sort of Meth addict trying to sell last nights ill gotten gains. No one is interested, at any price.

Longines made great watches in the 60s. In my opinion, now they are little better than Chinese watch fakers, copying old watches, slapping in a cheap ETA movement and a flashy dial and calling it Heritage. Except the Chinese fakers sell their efforts for $100.

My fault, I bought it and didn't haggle like a Shanghainese fisherwoman in the shop. It sums the watch up when the best approach is to say "how much for cash".

Anyone want a limited edition heritage Longines?


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## raja_3012

Rosco53 said:


> No, I'm still here. I have been busy with work trips and trying to sell the damn Longines. Gumtree, Ebay, Cash Converters and every second hand shop I could find, like some sort of Meth addict trying to sell last nights ill gotten gains. No one is interested, at any price.
> 
> Longines made great watches in the 60s. In my opinion, now they are little better than Chinese watch fakers, copying old watches, slapping in a cheap ETA movement and a flashy dial and calling it Heritage. Except the Chinese fakers sell their efforts for $100.
> 
> My fault, I bought it and didn't haggle like a Shanghainese fisherwoman in the shop. It sums the watch up when the best approach is to say "how much for cash".
> 
> Anyone want a limited edition heritage Longines?


Ha ha ha. I like the way you describe the situation using the meth addict analogy. No matter who says what, Longines is a very hard sell in the US market. I can imagine the same for the Australian market.


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## rfortson

Rosco53 said:


> No, I'm still here. I have been busy with work trips and trying to sell the damn Longines. Gumtree, Ebay, Cash Converters and every second hand shop I could find, like some sort of Meth addict trying to sell last nights ill gotten gains. No one is interested, at any price.
> 
> Longines made great watches in the 60s. In my opinion, now they are little better than Chinese watch fakers, copying old watches, slapping in a cheap ETA movement and a flashy dial and calling it Heritage. Except the Chinese fakers sell their efforts for $100.
> 
> My fault, I bought it and didn't haggle like a Shanghainese fisherwoman in the shop. It sums the watch up when the best approach is to say "how much for cash".
> 
> Anyone want a limited edition heritage Longines?


So, still not sure how much you're asking, but I did some looking around. There aren't many out there for sale, so I guess they actually were limited or people are keeping them. Who knows? I found one for sale for $1570, and one previously for sale for $1300. That would put the used sales price around $800-$900 max in my opinion. However, I could see it going lower based on a few other things.

It's a pretty basic watch (standard field watch look) and it's 38.5mm. Everyone wants a hockey puck on their wrists these days. Plus, you can get a variety of field watches for well under a grand (Hamilton comes to mind). I knew nothing about the back story (Antarctic expedition), so Longines could have done a better job of selling the story with the watch.

I still contend inability to sell has little to do with the name on the dial.


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## Vlciudoli

mattldm said:


> All this talk about Rolex holding its value so well... Im not so sure, and I know Ill get flamed for this but look at the Explorer II, MSRP $8100. Good luck getting much if any discount at an AD for a new one... These routinely sell for around $5500-$6500 through the forums. Thats a 25-30% depreciation right there. Maybe this is model specific, maybe the Sub "holds its value better" but to me I dont see it. If you buy new, you will lose. Be it watch or car or whatever.


Anything you shift quickly will lose money, but over a 5-10 year spell, Rolex will retain more than any other.


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## publandlord

Has the OP tried smashing his hated Longines with a hammer whilst repeatedly screaming "YOU CHEAP FAKE CHINESE S***" at the top of his lungs? Maybe he could post it from his iPhone, somewhere on social media


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## RPZ

I think Longines was a much more recognizable name in europe in the 1960s on back. I recall seeing Longine banners over there during sports competitions, skiing, motor racing etc. Ask the average American, even one over 50 "what is Longines", they will probably reply that it is the long version of a pair of Levi shorts. Vintage chronos, and vintage style chronos are somewhat a limited market in my observations. Chrono registers are hard enough to see as it is; on a smaller face they are perhaps even less appealing to many. Longines fans seem to gravitate to classic styled non-chronos.

For these reasons I would speculate that you are not going to get what you might perceive as a fair price based on the new price, and the current condition etc.


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