# Damasko Rotor Spins When Winding Crown



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

A few months ago, I noticed that winding my DK10 had become noticeably rougher, meaning it wasn't the smooth winding I was accustomed to when I first got the watch. So I sent the watch in for evaluation, and I was told that there was nothing wrong with it, but the watchmaker cleaned and lubricated the reverser gears just in case. The watch came back and the winding action was back to being smooth again and I thought that was that. Then a few days ago, the rough winding issue returned to my puzzlement. And then I noticed this to my surprise when winding the watch:






If you turn up the volume, you can hear how rough the winding is. Has anyone experienced such an issue before and any other theories as to the cause? Any and all insight would be appreciated.


----------



## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

I can't speak for the movement used in your watch but with ETA movements it's a bad sign, people said that the reversing wheels are dried and somehow stuck. It's generally time for servicing.

Sent from my LG-H630 using Tapatalk


----------



## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Yep reversing wheels stuck. Do not attempt to hand wind it anymore as you'll strip teeth from the automatic winding wheel. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

How old is the watch?


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Thanks for your input, everyone. I thought it was something along the lines of the reversing wheels. I'll cease winding the watch immediately, and get it out for repair. I just hope no damage has been done to the wheels.



Happy Acres said:


> How old is the watch?


I purchased the watch brand new and from an authorized dealer in early 2015, so it's now out of warranty. With the watch being only two and half years old, I'm very curious as to the possible root causes for an issue like this?


----------



## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

The usual suspects (not enough oil, too much oil, degraded oil, dirt and grime)


----------



## AKM (May 30, 2016)

I had an Oris with an ETA movement that did this exact fault, I had to send it back under warranty twice to be fixed as the first time they said there was nothing wrong with it. Got there in the end though. 

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk


----------



## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Happy Acres said:


> The usual suspects (not enough oil, too much oil, degraded oil, dirt and grime)


Actually Sellita (possibly used in this watch) are known to have QC issues with their reversing wheels so I'm not at all surprised at this. They're unlikely to be damaged and are in fact easily fixed by a clean and lube with the proper Lubeta V105 lube that's specifically for reversing wheels (although a service dept will likely just replace them and charge more for it!!). It does happen to ETA reversing wheels too but less frequently than Sellita!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Camera Bill (Aug 11, 2013)

Vig2000 said:


> Thanks for your input, everyone. I thought it was something along the lines of the reversing wheels. I'll cease winding the watch immediately, and get it out for repair. I just hope no damage has been done to the wheels.
> 
> I purchased the watch brand new and from an authorized dealer in early 2015, so it's now out of warranty. Watch was babied and never dropped. With the watch being only two and half years old, I'm very curious as to the possible root causes for an issue like this?


Let us know if you decide to send it back to Germany or have it serviced locally in case any other of us Damasko owners encounter the same issue please.


----------



## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Just realised that's their in-house movement but the same thing applies. In fact it still could be repaired by a local watch repairer as the reversing wheels don't actually need replacing. But I'd be inclined to send it in to Damasko and see if they fix this for free since it is very young even if out of warranty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kubelik (Mar 3, 2016)

hub6152 said:


> Actually Sellita (possibly used in this watch) are known to have QC issues with their reversing wheels so I'm not at all surprised at this. They're unlikely to be damaged and are in fact easily fixed by a clean and lube with the proper Lubeta V105 lube that's specifically for reversing wheels (although a service dept will likely just replace them and charge more for it!!). It does happen to ETA reversing wheels too but less frequently than Sellita!!


I wonder if this is what happened to my Oris Aquis (Sellita I believe). It started binding when handwinding and eventually turning the crown would spin the rotor. It stopped being able to be automatically wound on the wrist but handwinding it still worked. Took it to one jeweler who could not figure out what was wrong with it and returned it to me free of charge after spending a couple of months unsuccessfully trying to fix the movement. his take on it was that it would need a complete movement overhaul. I wonder if that's true, or if he just wasn't very good at his job.


----------



## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

No Sellita in any Damasko (yet).


----------



## GreatScott (Nov 19, 2016)

stuffler said:


> No Sellita in any Damasko (yet).


hopefully never


----------



## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

I really like one watch I have with Sellita, accurate and reliable timekeeper.


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Camera Bill said:


> Let us know if you decide to send it back to Germany or have it serviced locally in case any other of us Damasko owners encounter the same issue please.


I am exploring a solution for this issue and will report back.


----------



## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

Don't put too much worries on this, ETA movements (and its clones) have this issue all the time, especially when the watches were bought New Old Stock, meaning they sit in the boxes for a couple of years.


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Happy Acres said:


> The usual suspects (not enough oil, too much oil, degraded oil, dirt and grime)


I'm not sure if the usual suspects are necessarily the culprits here since oiling/dirt/grime (if any) were presumably taken care of when the watch was initially sent off for repair.


----------



## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

Oh, so it already had a full overhaul service? I thought I read just the reverser unit.


----------



## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

If the watch has been serviced recently, you could just wear it normally and stop winding the watch with the crown, let the automatic mechanism do its job for you.

Sent from my LG-H630 using Tapatalk


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Happy Acres said:


> Oh, so it already had a full overhaul service? I thought I read just the reverser unit.


No full overhaul service was performed; it only went in for the reverser issue, but I would think that, if the watchmaker noticed any dirt or grime, he would've cleaned that.



lvt said:


> If the watch has been serviced recently, you could just wear it normally and stop winding the watch with the crown, let the automatic mechanism do its job for you.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H630 using Tapatalk


That's true, but I'd still like the ability to manually wind the watch as well.


----------



## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

Vig2000 said:


> That's true, but I'd like the ability to manually wind the watch as well.


ETA's automatic movements weren't designed that purpose, you should only use the hand winding feature to wake a dead watch up.

Sent from my LG-H630 using Tapatalk


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

lvt said:


> ETA's automatic movements weren't designed that purpose, you should only use the hand winding feature to wake a dead watch up.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H630 using Tapatalk


Well, the DK10 is not powered by an ETA movement. The DK10 is powered by Damasko's automatic in-house movement, but I still follow your rule of thumb above. Out of an abundance of caution, I never manually wind my DK10 in a haphazard manner, and I'll only use manual winding to revive it after the power reserve has been depleted.


----------



## Chaz90 (Jan 14, 2014)

My <1 year old DK11 does this as well, and has since day 1. I didn't realize it was a problem, but I will be sending it back through Watchmann now for warranty service. 

My winding has always had a small amount of "resistance" on this watch, but I thought it was normal for Damaskos or this movement. The only other peculiarity I have noted with it is that it requires a little automatic rotor winding to get the movement started again after stopping. I can wind it as much as I want, and the movement will not start until I give it a quick shake. Time for Damasko to take a look at it I think...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Camera Bill said:


> Let us know if you decide to send it back to Germany or have it serviced locally in case any other of us Damasko owners encounter the same issue please.


Just wanted to provide an update in case anyone else encounters the same or similar issue as myself: My DK10 needs a full service. When the watch was initially sent to WatchMann back in May to have the rough winding issue repaired, the spinning rotor issue was not present. There were also no other observable issues with the movement, according to the watchmaker. However, I was given the option to have the reverser wheels lubricated, and I opted to have that done. The watch was then returned to me, and like I said, it was fine for several weeks thereafter and then the spinning rotor issue presented itself as per the video in the OP. So I sent the watch back to WatchMann for assessment, and his watchmaker observed that there was dried up oil throughout the movement. Fortunately and according to WatchMann, the movement did not sustained any permanent damage, so a complete service should remedy this situation. And in case you're wondering, WatchMann is fully authorized by Damasko to service their watches. The time estimate I was given for the completion of service is two to three weeks.

With the watch being relatively young, I was concerned as to why the oils in the movement dried up so quickly. Maybe it was sitting around in the dealer's stock for a while before I purchased it? Who knows, but whatever the reason for this issue is, I know that it's in capable hands with WatchMann.



Chaz90 said:


> My <1 year old DK11 does this as well, and has since day 1. I didn't realize it was a problem, but I will be sending it back through Watchmann now for warranty service.
> 
> My winding has always had a small amount of "resistance" on this watch, but I thought it was normal for Damaskos or this movement. The only other peculiarity I have noted with it is that it requires a little automatic rotor winding to get the movement started again after stopping. I can wind it as much as I want, and the movement will not start until I give it a quick shake. Time for Damasko to take a look at it I think...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I suggest that you have it checked out immediately. As was previously mentioned, do not wind the watch and it's best to take care of this sooner rather than later, especially because your watch is still under warranty.


----------



## wtma (Jul 26, 2014)

Thanks for the update.
Could it be that the watchmaker put too much oil that it got spread to the entire movement and dried up on more static parts?


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

wtma said:


> Thanks for the update.
> Could it be that the watchmaker put too much oil that it got spread to the entire movement and dried up on more static parts?


Anything is possible, but I'm not going to speculate. I'm just happy that it's getting fixed. The DK10 is among my favorite watches, and I can't wait to have back on my wrist soon.


----------



## Chaz90 (Jan 14, 2014)

Vig2000 said:


> I suggest that you have it checked out immediately. As was previously mentioned, do not wind the watch and it's best to take care of this sooner rather than later, especially because your watch is still under warranty.


Thanks for the update. I sent my DK11 in to Watchmann last Friday and they should be assessing it now. I'll update this post when I know more, but I expect to be in a similar situation to you. I love my DK11 and eagerly await its return.


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Chaz90 said:


> Thanks for the update. I sent my DK11 in to Watchmann last Friday and they should be assessing it now. I'll update this post when I know more, but I expect to be in a similar situation to you. I love my DK11 and eagerly await its return.


Definitely do report back since I'm very curious as to what Greg has to tell you, especially because you're experiencing the same issue I am and your watch is even younger than mine.


----------



## powerband (Oct 17, 2008)

Chaz90 said:


> Thanks for the update. I sent my DK11 in to Watchmann last Friday and they should be assessing it now. I'll update this post when I know more, but I expect to be in a similar situation to you. I love my DK11 and eagerly await its return.


Chaz90, perhaps you can also ask Greg if he's especially seen problems on other A35 movement?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chaz90 (Jan 14, 2014)

My DK11 has returned from warranty work and service for the "rotor winding" issue. The watchmaker advised that the "winding parts required cleaning and oiling." The winding feels noticeably easier now, and the rotor no longer spins as I wind it.

I remain a bit confused as to why this was going on with an essentially new watch. It did this since day 1, and I only received it BNIB in December 2016. I could speculate that it was sitting on a shelf somewhere for a while after manufacture, except it took almost three months to arrive after I placed an order as there were reportedly some delays in the factory. In any case, all seems to be well now. No idea on the timekeeping performance yet, but hopefully there won't be any issues.


----------



## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

I'm only guessing but I suspect the reversing wheels they used are stock off the shelf items from ETA or possibly Sellita. If that's so then I'm not at all surprised especially if it was Sellita as they're known for having poor QC on their reversing wheels. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Chaz90 said:


> My DK11 has returned from warranty work and service for the "rotor winding" issue. The watchmaker advised that the "winding parts required cleaning and oiling." The winding feels noticeably easier now, and the rotor no longer spins as I wind it.
> 
> I remain a bit confused as to why this was going on with an essentially new watch. It did this since day 1, and I only received it BNIB in December 2016. I could speculate that it was sitting on a shelf somewhere for a while after manufacture, except it took almost three months to arrive after I placed an order as there were reportedly some delays in the factory. In any case, all seems to be well now. No idea on the timekeeping performance yet, but hopefully there won't be any issues.


I get mine back tomorrow, so I'll report on mine as well.

You know, I was thinking that another possibility could be the amount and/or quality of oil used. Perhaps the winding parts were either under-oiled and/or a lower quality oil was used? However, I still think the most likely cause is that the watch was sitting around for a while.

At any rate, there's no sense in continuing to speculate. Moving onward, the most important thing is that the watch comes back in excellent mechanical condition and this issue hopefully does not present itself again.


----------



## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

It's not supposed to be an oil as such on reversing wheels. Lubeta V105 is the correct lubricant which is an oil in a solvent. The solvent dries to leave a residue of lubricant when it's applied properly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

So no 20w-50 ?


----------



## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Happy Acres said:


> So no 20w-50 ?


Castrol GTX!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

I got mine back yesterday, and all is well. As mentioned, it received a spa treatment. The rotor issue is now gone, and the watch is running perfectly.


----------

