# Bulova Accutron - N0 (1970) Up/Down Day/Date - Runs *very* fast



## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

Hello,

As part of a watch lot i purchased, I ended up with a Bulova Accutron, with an up/down day/date. (2182)
Cosmetically, it's a truly stunning watch and in great shape.
I got a battery for it, and it's now humming quite nicely.

Yesterday, 8/16, I set the time for 1:21pm against my cell phone clock and computer clock. Within 2 hours, it had added 8 minutes (about +4s/min).
I was wearing it until ~ 10pm last night, and the rate of increase seemed to stay steady at 4s/min.
It has been left on my dresser since last night, face up.

Today, at 3:51pm actual, the watch showed 4:44pm. A net increase of 57minutes in 26.5 hours. Doing the math, that's (57 + 1,590)/1590 = 1.0358 minutes for every real minute.
1.0358 * 60 = 62.15, so over 26.5hours, the watch is ~2.15s fast / minute.

Now that I've awed you all with my math skills and have invoked your sympathy for my circumstance, my questions are:
1) Is this large deviance (2.1s/min) able to be adjusted using the regulator as depicted on page 52 of this PDF ? 
2) Is this large deviance a result of using a modern battery, and not the older mercury-oxide one as referenced here: LINK

Is the regulator a real option as a novice/hobbyist watch repairer?
If not, what are my options?

Thanks in advance.

Image of the watch:


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## odd_and_vintage_fan (Dec 4, 2014)

Get an Accucell.

Accucell 1.35 Batteries for Bulova Acutron

If that doesn't work, get it serviced. The regulators are only good for about +/- 14 seconds per day. If you want to go completely down the rabbit hole and set it up yourself to run on a 1.55v battery, you'll need the Accucell anyway. I've done it once and it's harrowing for a beginner, but ultimately rewarding.


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

odd_and_vintage_fan said:


> Get an Accucell.
> 
> Accucell 1.35 Batteries for Bulova Acutron
> 
> If that doesn't work, get it serviced. The regulators are only good for about +/- 14 seconds per day. If you want to go completely down the rabbit hole and set it up yourself to run on a 1.55v battery, you'll need the Accucell anyway. I've done it once and it's harrowing for a beginner, but ultimately rewarding.


Thank you for this. 
I would most definitely prefer my first step to be this, as opposed to mechanical. 
I'll get a few ordered today (as I also have my Grandfather's N3 Accutron)

Most appreciated.


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## ArchieGoodwin (Jun 17, 2012)

Jed, keep us updated on whether it works please. Hopefully it will. I've always liked that crazy green up/down 2182. 


Eric


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

ArchieGoodwin said:


> Jed, keep us updated on whether it works please. Hopefully it will. I've always liked that crazy green up/down 2182.
> 
> Eric


I will update this thread, awe you with my math (hopefully in terms of s/day not s/min) and, fingers crossed, you shall cheer for the result.* 

*please note; very tongue in cheek with all of this.


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## ArchieGoodwin (Jun 17, 2012)

I am literally holding my breath in baited anticipation ;-) And yes, hopefully in terms of sec/day! That dial is eye catching, and deserves to be worn. Good luck. 
Eric
___



Jed_B said:


> I will update this thread, awe you with my math (hopefully in terms of s/day not s/min) and, fingers crossed, you shall cheer for the result.*
> 
> *please note; very tongue in cheek with all of this.


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## BenchGuy (Sep 23, 2012)

If the watch has an unknown service history, get it serviced. Service will include adjusting the indexing and phasing. Incorrectly indexed and phased results in "triple" indexing...which is likely responsible for your issue. Almost all 218s can be phased for 1.55v silver oxide cells. In fact, part of the phasing process is done at 1.75-1.80v. I've only had one 218 that could not be phased.
Do not attempt to adjust with the regulators on the cups...this is not the problem and will likely cause no appreciable change in rate.
If the Accucell works, you will experience a decreased battery capacity (they use a 395 cell instead of 344...expect a battery change about every 7-9 months). Silver Oxide cells already suffer a decreased capacity in comparison to the original Hg cells. On 214s that don't phase, I add a capacitor to the circuit so that the 387s can be used, supplying a longer life.
No more parts for these watches...so they deserve regular, competent maintenance.
Best regards, BG

Link to article on phasing: http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/accphs.htm


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

Bench Guy,
Nice to see you out side of F6. 

The service history is unknown, as it was in a lot of watches that I bought, mainly for the Seiko Bell-Matic that was in there. 
Oddly, ended up with a Ernst Borel Mod Depose cocktail watch in the same lot, so if you know anyone that's a hobbyist of those...

So, I've already ordered the Accucell that Odd_Vintage_Fan suggested, and I'm going to see if that fixes the problem. If it does, I'll probably wear that first cell to completion, and then get it serviced. I've sent you a note about that part of it.

Thank you also for the link. I will peruse that over the weekend, as I always like learning about different aspects of watches/watchmaking.

Cheers,
Jed


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

8/25 Update

I ordered and received 3 of the accucells that were described above. 

First cell out of the very nice little case that it came in, completely ignoring the small (3/4" x 1") sheet of instructions.
First effort, old cell out, new cell in; No hum.
Great, they send me a dead one. No problem, that's part of why I ordered 3 of 'em.
On to cell #2. Popped cell #1 out, cell #2 goes in. DEAD... Tension level rising, and I'm starting to curse batteries, as a whole.
On to cell #3. Popped cell #2 out, cell #3 goes in. Cells #1 and #2 are now hanging out in the corner with the dunce hats on. Serves them right for showing up DEAD. Cell #3, good things come at #3; 3 Musketeers, 3 Amigos, the Dahm Triplets, so I figure this has to be "THE ONE!"

wrong :-(

SO then I go read the instructions. Inverted. Like Goose & Maverick, those cells need to be inverted so the text on the battery case is down, and the smooth back is up. Inverted. *sigh* I should have read the instructions, or maybe a flyby at over 200 knots...

So I put cell #1 in inverted, secure the strap and I hear a faint hum. Getting excited, I loosen the watch case holder, and flip the band to look at the face. Still hum, but no second hand movement. :-s Ok, maybe it's just not the right battery, and #2 will be "the one." 2 lovers, ham and cheese, 2 to tango, Batman & Robin; it's got to be cell #2, right? Right? *Sigh* Not right. Same issue. Have hum, so that implies connectivity, and electricity through the system, but it's weak compared to the other battery. A-HA! I re-secure the back onto the watch, and then have a look at the face. *sigh* No movement from the second hand. Just to double check that I'm going about this right, I re-insert the original cell, you remember, the one on steroids that's making my watch super fast! Sure enough, hum and movement in the second hand.

Ok, time to re-try cell #3. Inverted. Again, an intermittent hum, and no movement in the second hand. I'm honestly frustrated at this point. I hear a hum, which implies electrical current. It's weak, so I'm not sure how to correct it. I can hear it, but it doesn't appear to be driving the second hand, through the train.

Next, I'm going to go back and double check the contact points. It may be as simple as adjusting that. Unlike Maverick & Goose that knew it all, I'm a bit stymied and would love some suggestions on how to troubleshoot the accucells.

Thanks in advance.


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## ArchieGoodwin (Jun 17, 2012)

JedB, you wrote, "SO then I go read the instructions. Inverted. Like Goose & Maverick, those cells need to be inverted so the text on the battery case is down, and the smooth back is up. Inverted. *sigh* I should have read the instructions, or maybe a flyby at over 200 knots..."

Wait a moment. ;-) Your first post in this thread you wrote that you'd acquired a battery for this piece and had it running, so you must've installed that battery correct (which by the way is "+" printed side down into the watch, and the negative side left up). You got a little carried away and forgot with the Accucells? Silly you. ;-)

All seriousness, I hope you get it running. Perhaps a blockage in the gear train, dried oil, etc? Check the coil cups for any small screws or other metallic items stuck to them.

Good luck,

Eric
__


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

Eric, 

You are correct. Silly me! The referenced instructions were for the accucell.

The battery that is running fast was installed properly the first time. When I removed it, I was more preoccupied with *not* damaging the screw/battery strap, that I didn't pay attention to the battery orientation. Math for the fast battery is still about the same. +6 min / 2hrs

Once I got the accucells in correctly, and the strap re-adjusted, there was hum, but not as loud or constant as it is with the 'fast' battery.
None of the accucell batteries drive the train, and the second hand doesn't move.
When I put the 'fast' battery back in, there is no problem with the second hand moving, and the rest following suit. (+6m / 2hr)

It was running with the fast battery.
It didn't run with the accucells.
I used the turkey baster (Bergeron dust blower) to blow any dust out of the movement area, so while a bound train/movement issues could be a contributing factor, the fact that the second hand moves with the fast battery leads me to believe that it's not substantial. (I could be wrong)

Not sure what could be causing it. Feels like Viper got behind me as I dove for the hard deck


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## ArchieGoodwin (Jun 17, 2012)

Your TopGun quotes are killing me. 

;-)


Eric


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## odd_and_vintage_fan (Dec 4, 2014)

Alright, disclaimer time...

I am a hobbyist. I did this to my own watch successfully and that is about my limit of experience. Your results may vary.

...end disclaimer.

I sent mine out for service and it came back running perfectly, but within three months started running 30s/day slow. I wasn't about to send it away for regulation and wait another six months.

Starting with an Accucell and a 390 battery and the Accutron 218 service manual, step 7 on page 18. I rotated the pawl bridge away from the index wheel as described. Instead of using the "Low Amplitude" position on the Accutron Test Set, I put in the Accucell. I turned the cam until I reached the second run point as described in step 9. Then I locked down the pawl bridge as in step 10 and installed the 390 battery. I timed it for 24 hours, but it was running slowly, past the 14 seconds available in the regulator clamps on the forks. I reinstalled the Accucell and turned the cam until I reached the third run point. I was still within specs on the finger stress limiters. With the 390 back in, this one ran 8 seconds slow over 24 hours, which I was able to adjust out using the regulator clamps. All in all, it took me a few days but it's been running steadily for about 9 months with no chance in accuracy.

Again, this was my experience of using an Accucell to substitute for the low power setting on the test set to re-phase the movement for a 1.55v battery. I took my time and used a loupe and the proper size screwdriver to avoid damaging the important parts. If you're going to try it yourself, I recommend reading through the procedure multiple times.

I sincerely apologize if I have caused Samantha or any other trained professionals cardiac distress.


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## fiskadoro (Sep 2, 2015)

Can't contribute too much to what others have mentioned, but just to say I had a similar issue with my Bulova-Accutron World Time. I, too, tried an Accucell and found the watch hummed but the hands barely moved. Prior, it was gaining a massive amount of time off the wrist (but keeping fine time on it).

In the end, I bit the bullet and got it serviced. It ran perfectly for a while then began to lose time, but the person who serviced it for me gladly took it back and repaired it again. Now, I'd say its good to about 15-30 seconds a day, perhaps better. So, the service cost was relatively expensive, but the extra peace of mind and the second repair under warranty was nice.


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

I am going to go out on a limb here (and I will probably get whacked around for saying this) but I think the Accucell is a bit of a pricey crutch to restore accurate time keeping to a slightly out of phase Accutron.(sort of like adding a high weight motor oil will bump up oil pressure in a car with a worn engine) Most Accutron watches run well with a 1.5 cell (in fact I have read in several places that Bulova tested the watches at a higher voltage then the 1.5v batteries that are sold today. The Accutron most likely needs a cleaning and it should be good as new.

Good luck with your watch, the Accutron is still a fascinating technology even 56 years after it first was sold and 39 years after it was last made.


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## odd_and_vintage_fan (Dec 4, 2014)

Journeyforce,

I wrote a whole pedantic thing, and then realized something. Mercury batteries were banned in 1992 in the US. If the last time a professional phased it, they phased it to the available 1.35v mercury battery, then it needs a service. No objections here.

The engineer in me does have trouble with the idea of running an oscillating system at 15% greater amplitude than design, even if they did check the design up to a safe voltage of 1.70v. Metal fatigue is a strange thing with a lot of scatter in the data. If mine decides to destroy itself, I'll do a full failure analysis.


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## JP71624 (May 1, 2013)

It sounds like your index and pawl fingers could be misaligned, allowing the noticeably fast timing. If too many teeth are passing under the jewels, it can run very very fast; if you take them completely off the index wheel will fly! I had a 218 in my Deep Sea doing just this that is now quite accurate once I made these adjustments.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

Update: 10/14

Decided to send it to Bench Guy, who has commented in this thread. 
The watch is in too good a shape for me, and my amatuer aspirations, to tangle with it.

Will report back post-service.


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## BenchGuy (Sep 23, 2012)

Jed_B said:


> Update: 10/14
> 
> Decided to send it to Bench Guy, who has commented in this thread.
> The watch is in too good a shape for me, and my amatuer aspirations, to tangle with it.
> ...


No pressure there...
Seems that there are two possible outcomes: public success or public humiliation.

Best regards, BG


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

BenchGuy said:


> No pressure there...
> Seems that there are two possible outcomes: public success or public humiliation.
> 
> Best regards, BG


I have full faith and confidence in your capabilities.

Much moreso than Iceman's confidence in Maverick's re-engaging the enemy.
(gotta keep the topgun theme going...)


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## BenchGuy (Sep 23, 2012)

Update:
In receipt of JBs watch...preliminary evaluation:

Noted Renata 344 battery @ 1.56 V
Gaining 30+ minutes per day.
However, the tuning fork is timed at -5 to -7s/d (this is good).
Current consumption = 13.3 microA (not good, but likely due to unclean/unlubed condition...but could be TF or circuit issue).
Jewels are dry.
Index and pawl fingers are a bit misshapen...and tension on index finger is too light.
Movement will phase such that it is not gaining...but is VERY sensitive and periodically stops.
Index wheel is contaminated...(as are index/pawl jewels)...and it is slightly off-center on its arbor (this latter condition may or may not be significant...it may contribute to intermittent stopping...but when the index wheel is cleaned, it may no longer be an issue).
The actual condition of the index wheel teeth cannot be assessed until the movement is ultrasonically cleaned.
Subject to inspection of the index wheel and re-evaluation of current consumption once cleaned, I would expect this movement to perform within specs with service, according to Accutron Service Bulletin and phasing as described here: http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/accphs.htm

See attached images.
Best regards, 
BG


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## BenchGuy (Sep 23, 2012)

Updated images taken after a trip through the cleaning machine with direct and back light:














More later.
BG


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

Looks like they came out of the Danger Zone nice and shiny and clean!

Looking Good, Winthorp!


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## BenchGuy (Sep 23, 2012)

Completed reassembly and got the watch dialed and cased up. One section (about a 45 degree arc) on the index wheel shows quite a bit of wear. With the index finger correctly tensioned and the pawl finger correctly adjusted (with respect to pre-phasing position); as the watch was phased, there was only one phase in which single indexing could be maintained through 1.65v. This is probably due to the section of the index wheel with wear and the relatively high amplitude of this fork/circuit combination. Over three days, however, the movement ran well in a "dynamic" test...lost 0.5 s in the first day and then no change in the next two days. It is on its way back to JedB. 
Best regards, BG


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

Fantastic Results, BenchGuy!

I'm looking forward to it arriving so I can try it out.



BenchGuy said:


> Completed reassembly and got the watch dialed and cased up. One section (about a 45 degree arc) on the index wheel shows quite a bit of wear. With the index finger correctly tensioned and the pawl finger correctly adjusted (with respect to pre-phasing position); as the watch was phased, there was only one phase in which single indexing could be maintained through 1.65v. This is probably due to the section of the index wheel with wear and the relatively high amplitude of this fork/circuit combination. Over three days, however, the movement ran well in a "dynamic" test...lost 0.5 s in the first day and then no change in the next two days. It is on its way back to JedB.
> Best regards, BG
> View attachment 9754506


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## ArchieGoodwin (Jun 17, 2012)

Another TopGun quote! You're on fire! 
Nice to see that unusual looking green dial 2182 back in service. Enjoy it Jed, it's an eye catcher. 
Nice work Benchguy.

Eric
____



Jed_B said:


> Looks like they came out of the Danger Zone nice and shiny and clean!
> 
> Looking Good, Winthorp!


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

ArchieGoodwin said:


> Another TopGun quote! You're on fire!
> Nice to see that unusual looking green dial 2182 back in service. Enjoy it Jed, it's an eye catcher.
> Nice work Benchguy.
> 
> ...


Don't forget one of the funniest movies of the 80s...

Winthorp: _"This is a Rouchefoucauld. The thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design, hand-crafted in Switzerland, and water resistant to three atmospheres. This is *the* sports watch of the '80s. Six thousand, nine hundred and fifty five dollars retail! It tells time simultaneously in Monte Carlo, Beverly Hills, London, Paris, Rome, and Gstaad!"_

I'll also post up once I get the watch and it's back on the straps.

Thanks again, Bench Guy!


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## Jed_B (Dec 3, 2014)

The watch has been received and will be put back on the straps shortly.

Based on the results: keeping accurate time, no loss, nor gain in the 3 days I've had it back, I'd say the operation was a success and the patient is cured!

I would like to thank Bench Guy for his professionalism, expertise, and *excellent* communication. 
I would additionally like to thank him as well as for going above and beyond by posting diagnosis and progress here.
I would highly recommend him for your Accutron service(s).

Bench Guy, write this one up as "Public Success."



<cue kenny loggins>


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