# Anonimo Resale Value



## Black&Gold

Hi Guys, 

I thought I would give my two cents about what I see in the resale market for Anonimo's. As you all are aware the resale value is terrible. As I see it ther are only two reasons for this one there is just not a market for these great timepieces or two we can blame ourselfs, the folks here on the Anonimo forum make up at least half of the way the market on Nimos are driven. We as buyers all want a great deal on the watch and will not buy until the watch is at least 30% of it retail value so now we have set an expectation and the market value. I for one have decided that I will not give my Nimos away especially since there are so few manufactured, these timepieces are just to spectacular to give away. I would love to hear your opinions....Mike


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## timefleas

The OP's comment is based purely on values associated with sellers ("the market is terrible"). As a buyer, one might think the opposite. Most of us here, however, are both buyers and sellers, so I think a balanced perspective might be useful.

The Anonimo is a great watch, but there are many great watches to choose from in the world today. Besides a pretty stiff retail price, probably the biggest single point against it, (in terms of resale value) is that the watch is not that well known to the casual buyer (as the OP says, there is just not a market for these watches)--it is known only to an "exclusive" few, and as such, will not attract many interested buyers, new or used. The same is true of other small production, high quality watches, such as the German watch, Sothis, which sells watches in similar low numbered limited editions, for prices in the $3-5K range. Their resale value is just about as the OP suggests, at 1/3 the original retail, or less. However, some of us don't actually want to pay full retail for a high retail watch, even if we could afford it, and will look for the next best thing (either a different, cheaper, watch, or one of these on the used/after market). I can safely say that I will never want to pay full retail for what Anonimo (or Sothis, or IWC, or...) is asking for their watches, and will be part of the contingent looking for a great deal in the used/after market. Those who CAN or WANT to buy these watches at full retail probably CAN afford to "give them away" (i.e. sell them at a significantly lower price than retail). However, this low price is not just a small output issue nor a limited recognition issue; companies with far bigger production numbers, and much better known, also see their watches on the aftermarket for similar very low prices (such as Oris), while a few companies are doing well to find resales at about half their original retail (companies such as Ball), and a very few companies that have even better resale values (such as IWC, Panerai and Patek), but still usually well below 2/3 the original retail. A simple case of supply and demand I think--if you really want to sell your used Anonimos, and the other watches you have up for sale, you have to look at what people are paying, and of course the economy is not great for many folks. On Ebay, 75 Anonimo watches are listed in the "completed auctions" section--of those, only 15 sold, and of those, the majority sold for less than $1500! (The current median retail price of a new Anonimo is $5000!) If I needed a second one, given the choice between buying a new Polluce Bronze from the dealer for $4500, or a similarly new Polluce Bronze from the aftermarket for $2000 (or less), well, the choice is an easy one for me. Of course there are risks in aftermarket purchases--replicas, scams, warranty issues, etc.--but with intelligence and common sense, one can buy an Anonimo (or any other high quality watch) safely for exactly the mark down you suggest--why should at least some buyers not want to take that course (keeping in mind, again, that there just aren't that many Anonimo buyers out there)? When I buy a watch, I recognize its resale value at the time of my purchase, I know if I end up not keeping it, I will be able to recover a certain amount of my investment, but likely, I will lose money on the resale (especially if I pay full retail)--it is one of many factors that I use to determine whether the purchase makes sense or not--as a result, I try to buy low, and come as close as possible to breaking even on selling. And, based on this, I would actually say the market is pretty darn good--for at least some sellers, and buyers. Anyway, sorry for the lengthy post--that's my own two cents on the subject.


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## samanator

I was about to merge this thread since we have a few others here with a similar subject line, but I feel timefleas response warrants allowing this to stand by itself. I just wanted to add a a few thoughts to continue the discussion with regards to Anonimo old and new. What I see on ebay today is Anonimo old. Anonimo new realizes that there were too many models and variation and has scaled down the line and volumes to those it can sell in a year. All 2010 offerings are unique to that year in some manner. While nothing of Anonimo old could ever be considered mass produced it's line had too many models and variations for the channel it had established. This is what we are seeing on ebay (More supply then demand). Let's be realistic Anonimo must walk before it can run. By that it needs to sell out year after year. Until the pool of older models dries up all sales must compete against these. When the main channel for watches is from AD and not ebay the resale price will reflect it. This appears to be what Anonimo is trying to do. Advertising and other promotions will be in kind to the channel at that time. It was good to hear that some of the limited 2010 models sold out almost instantly. While WUS is a large forum we need to remember we are the minority of Anonimo owners. Probably their obscurity is the best selling point. It is for me.


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## SBD

I completely get where the OP is coming from. He's had some really nice pieces on the sales forum at what look like pretty fair and competitive prices. I wonder if Anonimo is currently positioned with one foot in a fairly expensive part of the market without having the brand recognition that other, more mature brands do. While at the same time, as Samanator pointed out, the older models are somewhat flooding the channel.

Personally, I see a lot of value in some of the pieces that have been floating aroind the forums. Just haven't hit the right combination of available funds and available watch . Still trying though ;-)


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## Satansfist

Look at it this way: if you really want to sell something, no matter if it's a watch, a car or your organs you need to price your merchandise accordingly. Make no move to drop prices to encourage a sale and you won't sell it, simple as that. It's a buyer's market at the moment and two watches, being equal, the lower priced item will sell.

Applied to Anonimo in particular I think first of all they are overpriced new...there, I said it! Second there is a very small market for them...just us guys here on the forum. ;-) We could all just sell our watches to each other at great prices, knowing that one day they might come home to roost.

I'm trying to sell a GP70, so I looked around at prices on the net, damn me if the grey market retailers aren't letting that model go at ridiculously low prices! So to hopefully guarantee a sale I priced it lower than that, despite being priced at 2/3 of what I paid for it, still, there's very little interest. Luckily I don't have to sell to keep food on the table or anything but it's certainly putting a strain on the B U M and P keys on my laptop!


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## JayVeeez

Satansfist said:


> Look at it this way: if you really want to sell something, no matter if it's a watch, a car or your organs you need to price your merchandise accordingly. Make no move to drop prices to encourage a sale and you won't sell it, simple as that. It's a buyer's market at the moment and two watches, being equal, the lower priced item will sell.
> 
> Applied to Anonimo in particular I think first of all they are overpriced new...there, I said it! Second there is a very small market for them...just us guys here on the forum. ;-) We could all just sell our watches to each other at great prices, knowing that one day they might come home to roost.
> 
> I'm trying to sell a GP70, so I looked around at prices on the net, damn me if the grey market retailers aren't letting that model go at ridiculously low prices! So to hopefully guarantee a sale I priced it lower than that, despite being priced at 2/3 of what I paid for it, stil,l there's very little interest. Luckily I don't have to sell to keep food on the table or anything but it's certainly putting a strain on the B U M and P keys on my laptop!


I think this is pretty well said.

If you want a better resale value, get a Rolex, Omega or Breitling. It does WAY better on the used market. Most Anonimo watches get hit hard on the secondary market too. However, most Anonimo watches even with a sweet deal still run into very high dollar amounts due to the rarity, as the OP said. And as others have said, if you buy new they will cost you even more. Looking at the new line up, they are pretty cool.

I've sold other watches and got hit worse than I have on the Anonimo's I sold last year. Bottom line is that even top tier luxury brands take a hit. Perrelet, which is an excellent brand with a great line up of watches IMHO, takes it way harder than any brand than I have ever seen. Way worse than models from Anonimo. Other brands do have it worse and this is a fact which many know to be true.


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## phunky_monkey

I think you have a few factors working against the second hand market of Anonimo's, as mentioned above, not least of which is the discounting given on new watches. You see car manufacturers destroying their second hand market all the time by giving ridiculous discounts one the new models hit the floor. Those manufactuers who refuse to discount usually have the greatest resale values.

I've personally been turned off a car brand before for this reason alone, and for watches I'm sure those people who have been burned will remember it. I'll only purchase a watch if I know I'll get my most of my money back on it.


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## Satansfist

phunky_monkey said:


> ...I'll only purchase a watch if I know I'll get my most of my money back on it.


That'd mean you'd never buy a watch! Friends of mine who aren't into watches, when I tell them I'm selling watch X always ask if I'm making money from it. Of course not, there are very few watches you will get more than you paid or anywhere close I'm guessing.

I look at it this way: If I sell a watch for $350 less than I bought it, did I get $350 worth of enjoyment from it? Pretty much most of the time I can say yes...helps me get over the loss!:-d


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## phunky_monkey

I think if buying second hand then it's still do-able! Having said that, 'most of my money back' is considered for me to be within a few hundred on a second hand watch valued at $1500-2k, provided that it is in the same condition I bought it for.

I didn't lose money on the Fortis I bought off of you Pete :thanks And I'm quite certain I could sell the Millimetri without losing any coin on it. Depends how much you want the particular item I suppose. I lose too much money on my cars to piss it all away on watches too!


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## Satansfist

Yeah if you've got more than one hobby you may aswell just burn your paycheck...if anyone actually gets paychecks anymore, I guess you'd have to burn your ATM instead...


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## Ozy

Over priced when new = terrible resale.


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## jimyritz

The market is still very soft for all watches...even for brands such as Breitling, Omega and IWC...Go out on the Sales forum, a guy is selling a $5700 Aquatimer for $3200...There are a lot of excellent watches in LNIB conditon to be had at killer prices...Anonimo is not any different...buy pre-owned..

It's great to complain about resale value, but I never hear anyone complain about the discount they got on the front end. This has a huge effect on the resale price.

if you buy an Anonimo new for $4500 and get 25% off....that's $3375 and that is your starting point when you resell the watch..not $4500..Nowadays you would be lucky to get 50% of retail, it's more like 40%...That is how soft the market is...

For Anonimo, the market is flooded with pre-2010 product..newer models are so much better (strap changing system, etc)...

The Anonimo cases are awesome but the movements are basic...I'd like to see Anonimo clamp down on discounting and improve the movements...
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(Just for the record...I sold my 2003 Polluce--sick of the hassle when changing straps) and couldn't get the bracelet to fit properly...


I hope to own another one at some point...


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## Redsnake

I understand the OP point... and I bought my one and only Anonimo at a great secondhand price... ~ $1800 and it was as new.

However... if you are buying watches as investments then I think you're going to go broke. I enjoy the heck out of my Anonimo and I'm not worried about loosing 30-40% off what I paid if I had to sell it. Thankfully I don't have, nor do I want, to sell it.


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## jackafrica

The easiest way to make a small fortune investing in watches is.....
start out with a large fortune.

Early Anonimo is certainly hard hit, there have been a number of really well priced examples in the past couple of months which have finally sold for fire sale prices.

That said, the factors indicated variously by other contributors to this thread all have assisted in keeping the price low.
Difficult strap changing systems, cheapo movements compared ot the retail price point, economy hiccups, etc.

Buy the watch if you like it and wear it. Or look at it only if you must, but don't expect to make money, break even or even possibly lose only a little. 
If you do that, you are surely going to be looking for a new hobby soon.


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## Black&Gold

Great dialog and allot of great opinions, I agree it is always better to buy on the second hand market whether it's watches or cars, I guess the only point I was trying to make is that we on this forum are Anonimo, we are supposed to be the ones who love the brand and the craftsmanship of these watches yet we are the ones who are sometimes the worst enemy. I can't tell you how many times I have had a prospective buyer (and yes sometimes that is me) tell me I like your watch but Anonimos have a terrible resale value so you should just give it away to me. The good thing with my collection is I have limited edition pieces and fortunately do not have to sell. Believe me as a buyer I love to get a great steal on a Nimo the problem that has happened and I am also responsible is that we see these great prices on a Nimos and now that has become the new benchmark. Prime example I was in the market for a San Marco missed out on the sale of one for $4200, well now in my mind I would be insane to pay anything over that especially knowing the market conditions.

I am also a fan of Bell & Ross and for some reason they seem to hold their value, I would say that B&R and Anonimo are very similar great case design basic internals yet B&R gets more love on the second hand market. When selling a B&R I have never had anyone say the watch is terrible on the resale market and you should just give it away.

It is very puzzling how two brands very similar in design, manufacturing, and advertising can be so different in the resale market value.

Well that is enough rambling for now and believe me I am not into watches for an investment, this is a great hobby and expensive one but a fun one.


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## phunky_monkey

Do Bell & Ross discount heavily on sticker prices, as Anonimo seem to do?


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## toph

interesting and valuable input
:thanks
One other point i would make, which is consistent with many others, is that, for many watch enthusiasts anonimo would never be a first choice if they were to only have one watch. Money being tight for many peolpe whats the first thing they can do without? Two or more of a luxury item. Thats also a double edged sword as more for sale and less buyers.


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## abmw

Buying second hand is really the only way to purchase Anonimo's unless you can pickup some BNIB closeout pieces on Ebay. The bronze pieces are what really made me aware of Anonimo but there are at least two boutique brands that will be introducing bronze pieces at a fraction of Anonimo's retail price. I want Anonimo to stay in business but their retail prices and low resale value just makes it very hard to support them since I am not rich :-(


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## Sin22

abmw, I know of Benarus (which I nearly pre-ordered) but which is the other?


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## JayVeeez

Sin22 said:


> abmw, I know of Benarus (which I nearly pre-ordered) but which is the other?


I'm pretty sure Kazimon is the other...


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## Lemon_drop

JayVeeez said:


> I'm pretty sure Kazimon is the other...


Kazimon 1500 made out of bronze


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## abmw

Lemon_drop said:


> Kazimon 1500 made out of bronze





JayVeeez said:


> I'm pretty sure Kazimon is the other...


That's right, Kazimon is the other. Kazimon is using a different Bronze alloy than Anomimo. Benarus is using the same alloy as Anonimo.


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## timefleas

Both Benarus and Kazimon don't seem to offer very realistic alternatives. I mean, yes, Benarus "produces" a bronze watch (the Moray II, I believe) with a tiny production run of just *20 *pieces--all of which have been spoken for! And as for Kazimon, besides a prototype, and seeing that one could be "special ordered", I didn't actually come up with an in-production example--have any of you? In other words, are there any real world options for buying a bronze watch, besides Anonimo? It seems Benarus and Kazimon don't offer much, in the way of tangible or accessible alternatives--please correct me if I am wrong (and I probably am).


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## Sin22

Agreed and no offence to either brand, but the overall aesthetic look of the Anonimo bronze models definitely is a class above in terms of design, finish, style. For their prices though, you can't complain. And given the opportunity to own another bronze watch, I'd definitely go for it.


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## stew77

timefleas said:


> Both Benarus and Kazimon don't seem to offer very realistic alternatives. I mean, yes, Benarus "produces" a bronze watch (the Moray II, I believe) with a tiny production run of just *20 *pieces--all of which have been spoken for! And as for Kazimon, besides a prototype, and seeing that one could be "special ordered", I didn't actually come up with an in-production example--have any of you? In other words, are there any real world options for buying a bronze watch, besides Anonimo? It seems Benarus and Kazimon don't offer much, in the way of tangible or accessible alternatives--please correct me if I am wrong (and I probably am).


You are right timefleas...the Benarus Moray Bronze is a highly limited run (uses the same UNI 5275 bronze alloy as Anonimo)...as I understand it, each watch will be made one at a time including additional hand finishing on the case, and like you said...all are already spoken for. The Kazimon 1500 bronze is not in production "yet" and uses a different bronze alloy.

The only other company I know that is doing Bronze alloy watches is DRASS Watch (which I think has worked with Anonimo in the past, but I really don't know the real story). DRASS uses a Bronze Copper alloy called "Tungum" in their cases, and I have no idea what kind of production number quantities they build for their models.

So I agree, not alot of options to Anonimo if you really need to get your Bronze on...


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## samanator

Black&Gold said:


> I am also a fan of Bell & Ross and for some reason they seem to hold their value, I would say that B&R and Anonimo are very similar great case design basic internals yet B&R gets more love on the second hand market. When selling a B&R I have never had anyone say the watch is terrible on the resale market and you should just give it away.
> 
> It is very puzzling how two brands very similar in design, manufacturing, and advertising can be so different in the resale market value.


Actually I've always thought B&R has about the worst value retention. I've bought two BNIB for under $2000 that were suppose to be $4600 + watches. These were 43% or less of the retail price. Most Anonimo's are staying above 50% or better.

Actually I take that back. I think the British Masters brands of Arnold and Son and Graham may be the worst in the industry. I've seen these sell BNIB for 25% -30% of the retail value. I have not owned a Graham but I have had two A&S White Ensign watches (still have one) and they are really nice watches and have unique features.

As far as Bronze watches I think Lum-Tec is bringing out one. Rumor was that Ball was going to have a Bronze watch at Basel this year but that was not revealed. I have to go start a thread on that over at Ball.


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## RICH61703

JayVeeez said:


> I'm pretty sure Kazimon is the other...


Isn't copying someones product a form of flattery I can't wait to buy a bronze polluce


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## SBD

I am a big fan of the Moray -- had 3 of them at one point -- and I am sure that the bronze Moray is going to be excellent. But there's no way I would compare the case finishing on Benarus' previous offerings to what you get with Anonimo. Don't get me wrong...my Morays were nice, and they were a fantastic value, it's just that Anonimos are really outstanding.

Now back to the original post on this thread, I've tried to help B&G out by buying one of his pieces. I'm so excited about it that I had to say something here! Woot!


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## SBD

I am a big fan of the Moray -- had 3 of them at one point -- and I am sure that the bronze Moray is going to be excellent. But there's no way I would compare the case finishing on Benarus' previous offerings to what you get with Anonimo. Don't get me wrong...my Morays were nice, and they were a fantastic value, it's just that Anonimos are really outstanding.

Now back to the original post on this thread, I've tried to help B&G out by buying one of his pieces. I'm so excited about it that I had to say something here! Woot!


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## JayVeeez

RICH61703 said:


> Isn't copying someones product a form of flattery I can't wait to buy a bronze polluce


Yes, without a doubt. I love Kazimon watches too, especially the 1500. Kazimon is a whole different deal with a very small line up, only 1 chrono and what not. A very small operation and Kazim does a nice job with his watches and I'd pick one up again one day. Lovely German watches with great service.

But, I like my Nimo's much better. I flipped my 1500 to get into an Anonimo, which I feel was a big move up. Let's face it the Polluce was the original. But, Anonimo is a whole different deal and gives you a bunch of different bronze models to choose from and they are the originals.


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## otown

I recently sold a lnib millimetri to a delighted buyer for a fairly hefty loss but i take a philosophical stance on this. Overall i've bought reasonably well and got a lot of enjoyment out of some very cool watches and not done too badly overall on resale. In percentage terms the milli was probably the hardest hit i've taken to date but i'm not unduly perturbed about it. It wasn't like i invested my life savings in the piece nor did i expect it to appreciate. No i didn't expect the lukewarm response i received from the market but thats ok. Live and learn i guess. It comes down to a simple supply and demand equation not unlike the housing market right now plenty of inventory and not too many buyers. The moral of this story, for me at least, is buy mint pre owned and hold.


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