# Tourbillon powered clock?



## Encap

Was wondering if anyone knew if there are any tourbillon powered mechanical clocks being produced/made.

Have been looking for a while---lots of watches but so far no clocks.


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## Barnaby

I can't imagine why a tourbillon would be useful in a clock - the idea is to counteract the effects of movement throughout the day, but a clock remains stationary. Maybe in a seagoing chronometer?

That being said, I believe tourbillon clocks do, in fact exist. Richard Good made a carriage clock with one, I think.


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## StufflerMike

There have been and there will be

L'épée tourbillon carriage clock

Nicole Nielsen, London, Carriage Clock with Grande Sonnerie and Tourbillon, 1904

Bexei:










to name just some.


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## narcosynthesis

Surely a tourbillion in a clock is a bit pointless?

With a wristwatch, they have to be regulated in all six positions as gravity will affect the movement differently depending on which way it acts on the watch as it is moved about on your wrist. So the tourbillion was designed to continuously rotate parts of the movement to help negate the effect of the watch being moved throughout the day.

With a clock you can make the assumption that it is going to be sat in one position, so the accuracy can be fine tuned for that position only, and a tourbillion becomes somewhat pointless.


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## John MS

narcosynthesis said:


> Surely a tourbillion in a clock is a bit pointless?
> 
> With a wristwatch, they have to be regulated in all six positions as gravity will affect the movement differently depending on which way it acts on the watch as it is moved about on your wrist. So the tourbillion was designed to continuously rotate parts of the movement to help negate the effect of the watch being moved throughout the day.
> 
> With a clock you can make the assumption that it is going to be sat in one position, so the accuracy can be fine tuned for that position only, and a tourbillion becomes somewhat pointless.


A tourbillon would not help in a wristwatch and would be counterproductive in a clock. A clock sits in one position and can be timed to be very accurate in that position. Varying the position of the escapement would make it less accurate. As with tourbillons in general that "tourbillon clock" is designed more for expensive visual entertainment than anything else.


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## Barnaby

John MS said:


> A tourbillon would not help in a wristwatch and would be counterproductive in a clock. A clock sits in one position and can be timed to be very accurate in that position. Varying the position of the escapement would make it less accurate. As with tourbillons in general that "tourbillon clock" is designed more for expensive visual entertainment than anything else.


Actually, I believe that the jury is still out on whether or not a tourbillon makes a difference to wristwatch performance, although the general consensus is that it is only minor at best.

As for clocks, this thread got me interested and I went away and did some reading. The first non-prototype tourbillon, invented, as we all know, by Breguet himself (although based on a concept developed in collaboration with the chronometer maker John Arnold according to information from the British Museum), was apparently actually produced for a clock - it was, like the example above, for a 'carriage clock', ostensibly designed for travel. Not, therefore, counterproductive, at least based on what was known at the time about the effects of movement on the mechanism.

On the purpose of modern high-end tourbillons, I think that describing them as "more for expensive visual entertainment than anything else" rather misses the point, both of tourbillons and of high-end watch aesthetics in general. They are considered by many aficionados to be one of the supreme expressions of the watch (or clock) maker's art, and require an astonishing level of technical virtuosity to construct well. Indeed, there are modern watches where the tourbillon is not even visible (several by Patek come to mind).


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## John MS

> Actually, I believe that the jury is still out on whether or not a tourbillon makes a difference to wristwatch performance, although the general consensus is that it is only minor at best.


I have yet to read a review that demonstrates a measurable gain in accuracy from the use of a tourbillon. Makers of the pricey single, double, triple, etc., tourbillons would be among the first to trumpet that performance if it was at all observable. But measurable accuracy is typically low on the list of attributes described by makers of tourbillons. Chronometer graded mechanical movements continue to be dominated by those with fixed position escapements.



> As for clocks, this thread got me interested and I went away and did some reading. The first non-prototype tourbillon, invented, as we all know, by Breguet himself (although based on a concept developed in collaboration with the chronometer maker John Arnold according to information from the British Museum), was apparently actually produced for a clock - it was for a 'carriage clock', designed for travel. Not, therefore, counterproductive, at least based on what was known at the time about the effects of movement on the mechanism.


Travellers don't use carriage clocks in carriages today so your point is lost on me. Indeed when first invented the tourbillon was so expensive that few if any travellers would have actually put it to use. The above clock I was referring to was clearly designed to be used in one position, possibly in a museum. Most if not all mechanical clocks in use today would be operated in a fixed position and could be timed to function accurately in that position. Rotating the escapement toubillon style would acutually introduce positional errors.



> On the purpose of modern high-end tourbillons, I think that describing them as "more for expensive visual entertainment than anything else" rather misses the point, both of tourbillons and of high-end watch aesthetics in general. They are considered by many aficionados to be one of the supreme expressions of the watch (or clock) maker's art, and require an astonishing level of technical virtuosity to construct well. Indeed, there are modern watches where the tourbillon is not even visible (several by Patek come to mind).


There are many good reasons to enjoy the aesthetic aspects of a timekeeeper. Whether it is a 96" tall case clock, a size 16 railroad pocket watch, a temperature compensated quartz watch or a wrist chronograph we all enjoy our timekeepers. Or we wouldn't be on WUS. Part of the joy the mechanical horological wonders bring is their representation of what was once cutting edge time keeping. We should enjoy features like the tourbillon or the compensated pendulum for their place in the history of horology. I think we have to realize that the tourbillon exists now for reasons other than improving timekeeper accuracy.


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## Barnaby

John MS said:


> ...your point is lost on me...


Indeed. 

In any case, I hope that the OP's question has been answered positively and, on a personal level, I have learned some interesting things about clocks and the early history of the tourbillon, so I'm grateful for this thread.

Something else that may be of interest comes form this link:

eBay Guides - Tourbillon Watches - Fact Fiction

Apparently, there were some Chinese mantel clocks made from the 1950s with tourbillons. As it happens, there's a Chinese tourbillon mantel clock on UK eBay right now.

_Edit_: More than one, actually...


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## John MS

Barnaby said:


> Indeed.
> 
> In any case, I hope that the OP's question has been answered positively and, on a personal level, I have learned some interesting things about clocks and the early history of the tourbillon, so I'm grateful for this thread.
> 
> Something else that may be of interest comes form this link:
> 
> eBay Guides - Tourbillon Watches - Fact Fiction
> 
> Apparently, there were some Chinese mantle clocks made from the 1950s with tourbillons. As it happens, there's a Chinese tourbillon mantle clock on UK eBay right now.
> 
> _Edit_: More than one, actually...


Interesting information, thanks for posting it. Chinese have apparently had an ongoing interest in tourbillon regulated timekeepeers. Several chinese made toubilllon watches can be usually found on Ebay at prices well under $1k.


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## Barnaby

John MS said:


> Interesting information, thanks for posting it. Chinese have apparently had an ongoing interest in tourbillon regulated timekeepeers. Several chinese made toubilllon watches can be usually found on Ebay at prices well under $1k.


Good point - one often hears Chinese tourbillons spoken of as a relatively recent phenomenon, but perhaps not quite as recent as we all thought! There may be an interesting future thread in this..."The history of tourbillons in China" or somesuch.


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## John MS

Barnaby said:


> Good point - one often hears Chinese tourbillons spoken of as a relatively recent phenomenon, but perhaps not quite as recent as we all thought! There may be an interesting future thread in this..."The history of tourbillons in China" or somesuch.


Yes, it would be interesting to read about older Chinese tourbillon watches and clocks. Hopefully someone will post some early examples. I've been tempted to get either the Millionsmart or the Minorva tourbillon.


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## Barnaby

Something else came across the radar last night. There's another tourbillon out there which is sort of halfway between a clock and a watch. Not, perhaps, what the OP had in mind but certainly of interest:

Parmigiani Bugatti Tourbillon Watch With Galibier Car

Perhaps the latest descendant of the carriage clock?

I have been unable to find much more on Chinese tourbillon clocks. The thing that I would really like to know is whether there is some sort of link between these and the modern Sea-Gull (or other) wristwatch versions. Is there a continuous tradition and development, or merely two separate manufacturing events decades apart? Think I will start a thread on the Chinese watch forum...


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## John MS

Barnaby said:


> Something else came across the radar last night. There's another tourbillon out there which is sort of halfway between a clock and a watch. Not, perhaps, what the OP had in mind but certainly of interest:
> 
> Parmigiani Bugatti Tourbillon Watch With Galibier Car
> 
> Perhaps the latest descendant of the carriage clock?
> 
> I have been unable to find much more on Chinese tourbillon clocks. The thing that I would really like to know is whether there is some sort of link between these and the modern Sea-Gull (or other) wristwatch versions. Is there a continuous tradition and development, or merely two separate manufacturing events decades apart? Think I will start a thread on the Chinese watch forum...


Interesting...but won't fit in the dash (or budget) of my V70!



> My understanding is that the idea is to include the Parmigiani Bugatti Tourbillon watch with the Galibier 16C car. For the over $1 million that the 16C is likely to go for, this included watch is no major practical surprise. When driving a car like this, you want to be sure that even the clock in your car is worth more than most other vehicles on the road around you.


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## cbaytan

I think most beautiful tourbillon clocks made by Frank Jutzi.

Table-Clocks » Frank Jutzi,


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## Rhyalus

This is an old thread, but since it has been revived....

Tourbillons obviously do nothing for the chinese watches with "ok" accuracy.

The idea of a tourby on a table clock would simply be a celebration of the design. I would love to find one at a reasonable price myself. Any other links to affordable clocks that show the mechanism, preferably with a tourby?

R


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## cbaytan

Tourbillons are good on clocks. Aren't we all admirer of mesmerizing fine mechanical art pieces? Otherwise a $6 Chinese quartz would be enough for functionality. I personally would love to see a giant double gyro-tourbillon dancing on my desk in it's glass dome, that would be eye candy. I my pockets were deep enough of course. :roll:


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