# How close in quality is Orient Star to Grand Seiko? Orient Star WZ0021AF



## Rakumi

So I every now and then take a look at various Grand Seikos. They look really nice. I own the Seiko SARB035 which looks amazing to me. I do not know if a Grand Seiko is worth the difference in price from a SARB035, but that is a price I would not consider paying for many years. I came across the Orient Star WZ0021AF/WZ0031AF. It looks to have almost the same shape and design as most Grand Seikos. So I was curious to know how does the quality stack up to a Grand Seiko?







Grand Seiko SBGR081 (but all GS have a similar look)






Orient Star WZ0021AF






Orient Star WZ0031AF


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## Horologic

Not that it isn't good, but Orient Star is not in the same league

The Royal Orient lineup, I believe, is supposed to be equivalent to Grand Seiko.


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## mpalmer

Orient Star make nice watches. I owned one once that has since been gifted to my brother - he is very pleased with it. That said, there is no meaningful comparison to be had here. It would like be comparing a Tissot and a JLC...


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## valetchrome

The orient star would be more comparable to the sarb/sarg/sarx series than to GS. The royal orients would be what I'd stack against the gs

Sent from my XT1068


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## Rakumi

Ok, so then the Orient Star is equal to the Sarb? I have a Sarb035 already. The price of that specific OS model was $900 and looked to have the shape of the GS so was just curious. But I will not double dip being that I have a Sarb and for that kind of price. .....


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## StartSomething

valetchrome said:


> The orient star would be more comparable to the sarb/sarg/sarx series than to GS. The royal orients would be what I'd stack against the gs
> 
> Sent from my XT1068


IMO:

The watch in question cannot be compared to a SARB/SARX. If anything, it is best compared to the SDGM Brightz 6R15.
The SARBs are nice pieces and worth every penny - but so is this Orient star.
Some of the differences that stand out:
- Titanium Case
- SAR coated crystal (the cheap/non existent AR coating on the SARB033 was one of the reasons why I let mine go)
- Hi-quality bracelet and especially end links (with middle links protruding from the ELs rather than the bracelet going into them)
- Sophisticated dial with multiple patterns
- Nicely crafted hands and markers (a considerable step up from the SARB's markers which are pretty rough on the sides)

Really the only part of the watch that is pretty comparable is the movement, IMO.

I do agree however that the less expensive OS models (about 60k?) are very well comparable to the SARBs.

GS is just about the same step up in quality as from the SARB to the WZ00x1AF IMO.
The finishing details may be less apparent but when taking a closer look are very clear to see. The big price difference is also easy to explain: it takes less effort to improve something from good to very good (SARB vs. WZ00x1AF) than to make something very good perfect ;-)

As for the Royal Orients: IMO, the current RO line-up is quite a let-down (at least for me).
The models offered are nice for sure, but use the same movement as the OS line with just a bit better finishing/decoration. Orient had a completely different calibre (88xxx) in their portfolio but discontinued it one or two years back. For that reason I personally do not think that the current RO models are really comparable to GS, also, they are a good bit less expensive.

Best
H


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## gsu507

I own a orient star and had a sarb035 and the quality on the orient star is superior. Royal orient is in the same league as the grand seiko.


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## StartSomething

gsu507 said:


> I own a orient star and had a sarb035 and the quality on the orient star is superior. Royal orient is in the same league as the grand seiko.


A rather broad generalization - would you care to elaborate?
Which OS/RO models are you talking about?

Best
H


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## Gianclaudio Palazzolo

StartSomething said:


> As for the Royal Orients: IMO, the current RO line-up is quite a let-down (at least for me).
> The models offered are nice for sure, but use the same movement as the OS line with just a bit better finishing/decoration. Orient had a completely different calibre (88xxx) in their portfolio but discontinued it one or two years back. For that reason I personally do not think that the current RO models are really comparable to GS, also, they are a good bit less expensive.
> 
> Best
> H


While I agree that using the same movement with better regulation and decoration is a let down a priori, let's not forget that:
-The movement itself is a reliable workhose, and comes regulated to a near spec relative to Eta elaborated grade. And for those who care, is an in-house movement.
-The finishing and design intracacy of case and dials of the OS are extremely good, and very close to much, much more expensive watches, like an Omega, so (I'm guessing from what have seen online) the Royal Orients should be near or on par with a JLC. The bracelet seems an inmense step up from the OS, too.

Both points, while being cheaper than a Grand Seiko quartz. 
So we have a regulated, in house, reliable movement, and excellent finishing and detailing for less than an used Aqua Terra quartz or about the same for basic Longines, Tag Heuers and Oris? Where do I sign?


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## Mediocre

My opinion, after owning an Orient Star and a SARB, is that the SARB is a slightly nicer watch.


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## gsu507

StartSomething said:


> A rather broad generalization - would you care to elaborate?
> Which OS/RO models are you talking about?
> 
> Best
> H












the orient star has better polishing, hands, lume, colors (black and white instead of really dark brown and cream), and bracelet. Many complain about the micro adjustments on the sarb and the solution for many was using a orient star clasp. In my opinion the orient star looks and feels a lot better... As for the comment about gs and royal orient, they are in the same price bracket...

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## skippington

I have a SARB035 and a few Orient Stars. I think the SARB is on par with the cheaper Stars like the OS classic. Every other OS I own I find preferable to the Seiko. I also own a Citizen Grand Classic Signature. It's finished better than all the Orients and Seikos that I own. If I had to guess, I'd say the Citizen is probably on par with the Orient Stars posted by the OP and probably the Seiko Brightz pieces. Those Orient Stars look really tempting now. I'm not sure if I'd go with blue or white...


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## gsu507

Completely agree with skippington. The only orient star on par with the sarb is the classic


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## Rakumi

Mediocre said:


> My opinion, after owning an Orient Star and a SARB, is that the SARB is a slightly nicer watch.


This here is important because even if the Orient Star is better, if the SARB is comparable or right there, it would not be worth it for 3x the price and knowing I already have a SARB that I love. I simply had a bug for a Grand Seiko that I could not afford anytime soon. Where as the price of the OS is a bit more obtainable in the very near future. But if the SARB is even consider close to the OS I posted, then it would not be worth it. Especially being that I have other long term watch goals as well, lol.


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## Dan83bz

My tupence. I have had plenty of each, with a clear accent on the OS side. The SARxxx line is indeed very nice, more classic/simple designs, although its very model-dependent on both sides. What OS brings in extra is in the finishing section as I observed, meaning some very intricate and beautiful dials, very nice cases and bracelets for the most part.


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## StartSomething

Rakumi said:


> This here is important because even if the Orient Star is better, if the SARB is comparable or right there, it would not be worth it for 3x the price and knowing I already have a SARB that I love.


I find it interesting that from all the opinions/statements given, this is the one you chose 
IMO, there is no "The" Orient Star.



skippington said:


> I have a SARB035 and a few Orient Stars. I think the SARB is on par with the cheaper Stars like the OS classic. Every other OS I own I find preferable to the Seiko. I also own a Citizen Grand Classic Signature. It's finished better than all the Orients and Seikos that I own. If I had to guess, I'd say the Citizen is probably on par with the Orient Stars posted by the OP and probably the Seiko Brightz pieces.


Absolutely agreed, now if only Citizen were to offer a little more models/variants...



gsu507 said:


> the orient star has better polishing, hands, lume, colors (black and white instead of really dark brown and cream), and bracelet. Many complain about the micro adjustments on the sarb and the solution for many was using a orient star clasp. In my opinion the orient star looks and feels a lot better... As for the comment about gs and royal orient, they are in the same price bracket...


Thanks - well, your OS also is a good bit more expensive, AFAIK?

As for GS vs. RO bein in the same price category:

AFAIK, the MSRP [yen] on ROs is 150-280k vs. GS mechanical (non-precious metal) is 400-700k...



Gianclaudio Palazzolo said:


> While I agree that using the same movement with better regulation and decoration is a let down a priori, let's not forget that:
> -The movement itself is a reliable workhose, and comes regulated to a near spec relative to Eta elaborated grade. And for those who care, is an in-house movement.
> -The finishing and design intracacy of case and dials of the OS are extremely good, and very close to much, much more expensive watches, like an Omega, so (I'm guessing from what have seen online) the Royal Orients should be near or on par with a JLC. The bracelet seems an inmense step up from the OS, too.
> 
> Both points, while being cheaper than a Grand Seiko quartz.
> So we have a regulated, in house, reliable movement, and excellent finishing and detailing for less than an used Aqua Terra quartz or about the same for basic Longines, Tag Heuers and Oris? Where do I sign?


Absolutely agreed, but I am still not convinced that this makes RO equal to GS ;-)
And please do not get me wrong: I like either very much, though I do not own an RO, so I can only make judgments from what I see (and gather) online.

There is a review of one of RO's latest offerings (WE0011JD) on the German Uhrforum for all those taking a delight in Google translate:
Royal Orient WE0011JD - wie königlich ist sie wirklich? - UhrForum

The workmanship on dial, markers, hands and case looks immaculate and probably on par with GS.
Apparently the guy opened the watch up to regulate it and found a plastic movement holder inside...

On another note: I really wish RO would have stayed a bit closer to their earlier offerings regarding design. The current automatics use a bit too much design elements that I associate with GS (dial design/marker layout, hand shape and finish, bracelet).

Best
H


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## Krosya

With all my love to the Orient watches (some of you may know that I own more than 100 of them), including the Royals - NOTHING that Orient makes compares to the GS in Seiko. At least in technical terms (specs on paper - movement , etc). In practical terms - I almost always chose Orient over Seiko.


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## Gianclaudio Palazzolo

StartSomething said:


> Absolutely agreed, but I am still not convinced that this makes RO equal to GS ;-)
> And please do not get me wrong: I like either very much, though I do not own an RO, so I can only make judgments from what I see (and gather) online.
> 
> There is a review of one of RO's latest offerings (WE0011JD) on the German Uhrforum for all those taking a delight in Google translate:
> Royal Orient WE0011JD - wie königlich ist sie wirklich? - UhrForum
> 
> The workmanship on dial, markers, hands and case looks immaculate and probably on par with GS.
> Apparently the guy opened the watch up to regulate it and found a plastic movement holder inside...
> 
> On another note: I really wish RO would have stayed a bit closer to their earlier offerings regarding design. The current automatics use a bit too much design elements that I associate with GS (dial design/marker layout, hand shape and finish, bracelet).
> 
> Best
> H


Thanks for the link, very helpful. And I agree, the Royal Orients aren't a match for GS, which come better regulated. I wasn't completely clear, but my point was comparing to similar offering from brands like Oris, Longines, TAG, Omega quartz, etc. All of suddenly, the prices for a RO seems great. The problem is we, users of Orient Star are accustomed to an already exceptional quality/price relation, so at first it doesn't seems like a big deal to get a Royal Orient.

Happy holidays!!!


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## StartSomething

Oh, then we are absolutely on the same page 

Happy holidays to you, too!

Best
H


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## Horologic

Regarding Orient Star vs SARB, one thing I've noticed is all of the Orient Star movements seem to have a little bit of decoration, stripes and perlage. Whereas the 6R15 in most of the SARBs looks very plain jane.


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## Rakumi

Now I just wish I could see one in person. So many different views and opinions. I have seen on ebay RO plain date design with power reserve for $1329. If you are getting 3k quality, that is awesome. ...


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## xzqt

RO should be a better product to compare with the GS.


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## gsu507

I love seiko and want to like them more but I have learned the hard way that orient gives more for the price..... I purchased a seiko sea urchin for $130 and my brother purchased a mako for $120 and the mako offers a lot more than the sea urchin. In addition, I purchased my orient star for $280 and my sarb for $275 and sold the sarb because the OS was better. I don't own a RO or a GS but they are in the same league. Orient's most expensive line is Royal Orient and Seiko's is Grand Seiko. I get many compliments on my OS and love the fact that I purchased something because of my knowledge rather than because I saw it at macy's and paid more than what it costs.


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## Rakumi

gsu507 said:


> I love seiko and want to like them more but I have learned the hard way that orient gives more for the price..... I purchased a seiko sea urchin for $130 and my brother purchased a mako for $120 and the mako offers a lot more than the sea urchin. In addition, I purchased my orient star for $280 and my sarb for $275 and sold the sarb because the OS was better. I don't own a RO or a GS but they are in the same league. Orient's most expensive line is Royal Orient and Seiko's is Grand Seiko. I get many compliments on my OS and love the fact that I purchased something because of my knowledge rather than because I saw it at macy's and paid more than what it costs.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Which Orient Star model did you take over the Sarb and which model Sarb was it?


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## gsu507

I have the sda02002b0 but any orient star besides the classic is higher quality than the sarb033/35.


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## RossiRules

I have been reading this forum for several years and while this topic comes up form time to time, I had spent the better part of the last 3 years in Asia, primarily China and Japan. I would say the view of Japanese people on this subject might be something like this. A comparison of a US product they know well would be a Fender Stratocaster made in CA USA vs. a Mexican version made 200 miles south. The same is true of Orient which is adored company in Japan and about as popular as a Timex in the 1950's. Orient was started in 1950 and was a 1[SUP]st[/SUP] symbol of its rebirth into modern manufacturing by a new company after WWII, only later did it become part of the already established and Seiko which had been in business since the later part of the 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century. So the difference is generally nothing in terms of the parts the mechanisms in many of the models is exactly the same. Lets get one thing straight Seiko is now a company that derives 90% of its sales from Quartz watches many with sun driven or alternative battery charge process That is not the case at Orient where about 90% of their sales are mechanical and automatic movements. So generally you are getting the same movement in a Seiko as you might in a Orient. I still consider the Orient Bambino <$130 bucks perhaps the best watch value in an entry level automatic. What is not the same is the finish and machining both companies are based in Tokyo, but the factories producing the watches are in finished in different factories one in the more in industrialized Chūgoku region where workers earn less and are generally less skilled so fit and finish maybe slightly different but we are talking different by Japanese production standards which aside from Germany are the best in the world.


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## watchhans

First of all, both watches offer great quality. The difference between Orient Star and Grand Seiko is, that GS-watches are almost entirely made by hand with extremely high production standards (even higher than most of their Swiss competitors) and in small numbers. There are rumors, that no more than 10000 manufactured per year. 
This high production effort explains the high price for a Grand Seiko.
Orient Star watches are primarily made by machines, some parts are made in China (except for Royal Orient, entirely made in Japan), but their final assembly takes place in Japan. They offer a very good quality with a more affordable price tag.
Grand Seiko is definitely the top with excellent quality, Orient Star watches are of very good quality.


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## watchhans

It is true, since Orient is a part of the Seiko Group, that some parts, the escapement basic parts, like hairsprings and mainsprings in particular, are made by Seiko but according to Orient's parameters. That's why Seiko and Orient automatic movements are different. The only common item is the Magic Lever-system. 
If you take a closer look at Seiko's 4R or 6R movements in comparison to Orient's 46-line movements you will not only see the difference but also hear it: All Orient movements beat with 21600 b/h. Seiko uses 21600 as well as 28800 in their higher end movements. Even though they both belong to Seiko, they are competitors on the Japanese domestic market.


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## watchhans

StartSomething said:


> There is a review of one of RO's latest offerings (WE0011JD) on the German Uhrforum for all those taking a delight in Google translate:
> Royal Orient WE0011JD - wie königlich ist sie wirklich? - UhrForum
> 
> The workmanship on dial, markers, hands and case looks immaculate and probably on par with GS.
> Apparently the guy opened the watch up to regulate it and found a plastic movement holder inside...


Yes, it´s me!
I am the guy who really opened the watch to re-regulate it and found the plastic-movement holder.
But does it bother me? No, not really. It is made of black colored plastic and completely invisible from outside.
I also wrote a review in English `how much royalty is inside the Royal Orient.....´ on watchuseek.com
It is just al little disturbing to know that there is plastic inside. Compared to most Orient Star watches with movment holders made of metal.
My personal ranking is Grand Seiko - Royal Orient - Orient Star.


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## StartSomething

watchhans said:


> Yes, it´s me!
> I am the guy who really opened the watch to re-regulate it and found the plastic-movement holder.


Hi, thanks for chiming in and sorry I did not link to your post on WUS - I must admit I didn't check, I just recalled your (unique ;-)) review on UF!

Best
H


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## Rakumi

Hey Watchhans,
So I was wondering where you would place the quality of Royal Orient. If you take the model WE0041EK, would you feel it is worth its +$1,500 price tag? Is the watch really worth that or would other options from different brands create a much better value at that price range? Also, how is the box presentation? I just love a great presentation and I know Grand Seiko does it big. Not saying it would match that but hopefully better than a standard Seiko box type.


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## Rakumi

Levis,
lol, on my phone, the web browser kept crashing and the process became annoying saying the same thing over and over. But I simply meant if it is a bargain for what you are paying for, and if it is giving near Grand Seiko quality for almost half the price.


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## watchhans

Rakumi said:


> Hey Watchhans,
> So I was wondering where you would place the quality of Royal Orient. If you take the model WE0041EK, would you feel it is worth its +$1,500 price tag? Is the watch really worth that or would other options from different brands create a much better value at that price range? Also, how is the box presentation? I just love a great presentation and I know Grand Seiko does it big. Not saying it would match that but hopefully better than a standard Seiko box type.


Hi Rakumi!
I would place the quality of Royal Orient very close to Grand Seiko. The only disturbing fact is the movement holder made of plastic. It is definitely not visible from outside, but I know it is there. So that is why I rate RO one step behind GS.
Everything else is of excellent quality, the case, hands, dial etc. Exactly like GS.
The box is very representative. There is an outer box, inside you will find another box, wrapped up in Japanese silk paper. All in a bright beige color.
The standard box type for Orient Star, for example, is much simpler.
Of course, it is probably easier to re-sell a used Swiss Made watch of a similar price tag, rather then re-selling a used Royal Orient, depending on where you live.
You have to keep in mind that all Royal Orient watches are entirely made in Japan, from making all of the parts to the final assembly and regulating by hand.
That is why these watches are much more expensive compared to Orient Star watches, where many parts are made in China.
And I assume that RO´s are made in very small numbers. Even less than GS.
Considering all this, for me it was worth the price tag. Especially for me, living in Germany, this watch is very unknown over here and gives me a certain exclusivity. I guess there are far less than 100 RO owners in my entire country.


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## Rakumi

Thanks watchhans. Very helpful information. Maybe I will find myself purchasing one down the line as a next goal.


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## Tourbill

Where would you consider something like the SDGM003 in comparison? Above GS, below RO or equal or better?

Just ordered one as it looks to have exceptional finishing and bracelet quality but clearly still below GS. I am hoping though its better than most if not all Swiss brands you can buy in the <$1500 range new.


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## Rakumi

Tourbill said:


> Where would you consider something like the SDGM003 in comparison? Above GS, below RO or equal or better?
> 
> Just ordered one as it looks to have exceptional finishing and bracelet quality but clearly still below GS. I am hoping though its better than most if not all Swiss brands you can buy in the <$1500 range new.


That is considered the big brother to the SARB033 so most often the question is how much better is that over the SARB and if it is worth the difference. SARB033/035 run for $300.


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## Tourbill

Rakumi said:


> That is considered the big brother to the SARB033 so most often the question is how much better is that over the SARB and if it is worth the difference. SARB033/035 run for $300.


Yeah I know it is the Grand Cocktail and puts the Sarb series to shame. Since everyone agrees the OS/RO don't hold up to a GS but much nicer than any Sarb or Sarx line wondering if this line is a better comparison.


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## Tseg

The production process and technology of a GS is very different than an Orient. Value watches have a case that is cast and then finished whereas GS, like Rolex, start with a block of steel or titanium and then drilled/cut to shape, creating very sharp precise edges. GS also uses MEMS technology in the crafting of movement parts to deliver extreme precision and lightness of parts which supports it's great accuracy and durability. Skilled craftsman apply Zuratsu (?) polishing for a precise mirrored finish, not just on the case but on the markers and 5-sided hands.

Basically all aspects of a GS watch creation is more manual, refined and precise than in an Orient (BTW I have 2 Orients and a GS). My Orients can swing in time keeping valiance by multiple seconds per day whereas my GS variance is less than a second. While there are Orients that can be very accurate, it is luck of the draw as many gain or lose a fair amount.... Both of mine lose more than 8 SPD. With GS it is about assured your watch will be within a couple seconds per day.... This partly due to all their automatic watches are regulated over 17 days before leaving the studio where they are manufactured.

When I set my GS the whole process feels like butter... Very smooth, very solid. My Orients tend to be a bit more grinding in feel. Also, a GS feels like butter on the wrist, they are soooo comfortable.


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## watchhans

Tseg said:


> The production process and technology of a GS is very different than an Orient. Value watches have a case that is cast and then finished whereas GS, like Rolex, start with a block of steel or titanium and then drilled/cut to shape, creating very sharp precise edges. GS also uses MEMS technology in the crafting of movement parts to deliver extreme precision and lightness of parts which supports it's great accuracy and durability. Skilled craftsman apply Zuratsu (?) polishing for a precise mirrored finish, not just on the case but on the markers and 5-sided hands.
> 
> Basically all aspects of a GS watch creation is more manual, refined and precise than in an Orient (BTW I have 2 Orients and a GS). My Orients can swing in time keeping valiance by multiple seconds per day whereas my GS variance is less than a second. While there are Orients that can be very accurate, it is luck of the draw as many gain or lose a fair amount.... Both of mine lose more than 8 SPD. With GS it is about assured your watch will be within a couple seconds per day.... This partly due to all their automatic watches are regulated over 17 days before leaving the studio where they are manufactured.
> 
> When I set my GS the whole process feels like butter... Very smooth, very solid. My Orients tend to be a bit more grinding in feel. Also, a GS feels like butter on the wrist, they are soooo comfortable.


Tseg, thanks for your much more detailed comparison between Orient and GS-watches!
Except for MEMS-technology, Royal Orient is made the same way like GS, including Japanese Zuratsu-polishing technique.
It might look different with ordinary Orient watches, as well as with ordinary Seikos.


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## Tourbill

Just got my SDGM003. Its nice but bracelet is a bit of a let down. Its a little light weight and tiny. Not terribly cheap but not the level of quality I was hoping for. Guess I'll find a some nice leather for it. Everything else is very nice. The dial, hands, etc are gorgeous. The hand wind is almost rewarding in how nice the feedback it gives.

Not sure if I will ever get a RO, but plan on picking up a OS soon for some first hand comparisons. Also looking at a GS quartz as a good grab and go.


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## Rakumi

I would be curious to know how that compares to the SARB line in real time. People say it is way better but I find that hard to believe.


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## watchhans

Tourbill said:


> Just got my SDGM003. Its nice but bracelet is a bit of a let down. Its a little light weight and tiny. Not terribly cheap but not the level of quality I was hoping for. Guess I'll find a some nice leather for it. Everything else is very nice. The dial, hands, etc are gorgeous. The hand wind is almost rewarding in how nice the feedback it gives.
> 
> Not sure if I will ever get a RO, but plan on picking up a OS soon for some first hand comparisons. Also looking at a GS quartz as a good grab and go.


Hi Tourbill!
just check Seiya Japan for a nice fitting leather strap, including the original Seiko clasp. I bought it for my SARB and it looks great!


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