# IWC Pilot Chronograph: overpriced Tag?



## Kronos13

Im considering buying a IWC Pilot Chronograph in addition to a nicer dress/sports dress watch I will be making this year. I am very conflicted on the Pilot though, as it seems like the 'Tag' Calibre 16 movement is very generic (and I am concerned about not being able to set the time between 10 and 2). That being said, I do like the look, particularly the newer models. 

However, if the Pilot isnt worth getting, I would be more than willing to wait a while to get the Big Pilot Heritage. What are your thoughts?


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## TechGuyJ

...where did I put that popcorn  maker...

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## TechGuyJ

Ok, ok, on a more serious note...

The Tag calibre 16 and the IWC calibre A79320 are both the ETA 7750. The 7750 is an extremely robust movement and is used by a whole LOT of manufacturers, including:

Hamilton (extensively)
Longines
Tissot
Montblanc
Baum et Mercier
Sinn
Chopard
and IWC

Here is a good review of the movement itself: https://gearpatrol.com/2012/01/05/timekeeping-icon-volume-2-the-valjoux-7750-chronograph/

I used to get hung up on in-house movements in all of my nicer watches, but what I've (recently) come to realize is that companies don't want to reinvent the wheel. If there is a very good movement to use, they will use that. Now, IWC (from my understanding), receives the movement in pieces not as a completed movement. They finish it and assemble it in-house. This does not make it an in-house movement, it just makes it to IWC's standards.

Here is an article published a few years back on this very topic and posted here on WUS: https://www.watchuseek.com/f350/popular-question-answered-eta-valjoux-7750-calibre-79320-a-506075.html

I have been researching this a lot lately myself (I have my eye on the new Spitfire chrono). So, don't get hung up on the movement too much (as long as its a good one!), get the watch you like and will enjoy wearing. Hope that helps!

Jason


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## slashd0t

TechGuyJ said:


> Now, IWC (from my understanding), receives the movement in pieces not as a completed movement. They finish it and assemble it in-house. This does not make it an in-house movement, it just makes it to IWC's standards.


They haven't done that for years... The movement comes fully assembled with incorporated IWC changes (that all top grade ETA's get, not just IWC)..


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## Gunnar_917

IWC watches in general are overpriced in my books. They're nice watches but also expensive. 

Thats beijg said id probably jut go the BP if that's what you really want


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## TechGuyJ

slashd0t said:


> They haven't done that for years... The movement comes fully assembled with incorporated IWC changes (that all top grade ETA's get, not just IWC)..


If that is the case, then it calls into question the value of the product. The IWC Pilot Spitfire Chrono is $5,950 USD. The Tag Heuer Carrera Day-Date (cal 16, with the same movement) is $4,650.

Is it worth it?

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## slashd0t

TechGuyJ said:


> If that is the case, then it calls into question the value of the product. The IWC Pilot Spitfire Chrono is $5,950 USD. The Tag Heuer Carrera Day-Date (cal 16, with the same movement) is $4,650.
> 
> Is it worth it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would say the value of a watch is more than just the movement. For many years, Patek, VC and others all used non in house movements.

I'd agree that a 7750 in a Tag is no better or worse than an IWC, but the overall design and attention to detail on the IWC easily buries the TAG IMO.

Not to mention the after market value on the IWC will be significant better than the Tag. What does the total cost of owning the watch look like when you consider potentially reselling the watch at some point?


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## TechGuyJ

slashd0t said:


> I would say the value of a watch is more than just the movement. For many years, Patek, VC and others all used non in house movements.
> 
> I'd agree that a 7750 in a Tag is no better or worse than an IWC, but the overall design and attention to detail on the IWC easily buries the TAG IMO.
> 
> Not to mention the after market value on the IWC will be significant better than the Tag. What does the total cost of owning the watch look like when you consider potentially reselling the watch at some point?


And that's a fair point. All things considered, the ~$1,500 difference might be worth it when it comes to finishing and build quality.

Pay no attention to me. I'm struggling with my decision lol

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## slashd0t

slashd0t said:


> I would say the value of a watch is more than just the movement. For many years, Patek, VC and others all used non in house movements.
> 
> I'd agree that a 7750 in a Tag is no better or worse than an IWC, but the overall design and attention to detail on the IWC easily buries the TAG IMO.
> 
> Not to mention the after market value on the IWC will be significant better than the Tag. What does the total cost of owning the watch look like when you consider potentially reselling the watch at some point?


Price aside, which one do you feel more emotionally connected to? That's the one to choose.


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## TechGuyJ

slashd0t said:


> Price aside, which one do you feel more emotionally connected to? That's the one to choose.


I don't know haha. The watches I am considering are:

IWC Spitfire Chrono
Omega Speedmaster
Rolex GMT Master II (I can get the BLNR, but I would need to wait a bit for the funds to avail themselves to me)

I've tried them all on. I felt the least connected to the Omega, which surprised me. I went into the Dallas boutique ready to buy. The Rolex is, well, a Rolex. I've never owned one, but I do have a few small concerns about wearing one. The IWC could be perfect, but I'm starting to move away from chronos. Especially for an every day watch. So, I don't know. The decision is weighing on me. I know, first world problems.

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## slashd0t

TechGuyJ said:


> I don't know haha. The watches I am considering are:
> 
> IWC Spitfire Chrono
> Omega Speedmaster
> Rolex GMT Master II (I can get the BLNR, but I would need to wait a bit for the funds to avail themselves to me)
> 
> I've tried them all on. I felt the least connected to the Omega, which surprised me. I went into the Dallas boutique ready to buy. The Rolex is, well, a Rolex. I've never owned one, but I do have a few small concerns about wearing one. The IWC could be perfect, but I'm starting to move away from chronos. Especially for an every day watch. So, I don't know. The decision is weighing on me. I know, first world problems.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think you'll go wrong with any of those decisions! Regardless, I look forward to the photos


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## flame2000

TechGuyJ said:


> If that is the case, then it calls into question the value of the product. The IWC Pilot Spitfire Chrono is $5,950 USD. The Tag Heuer Carrera Day-Date (cal 16, with the same movement) is $4,650.
> 
> Is it worth it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are essentially paying $1300 difference for the IWC brand name. If I were in your position, I would just get a Sinn chronograph. But it's your choice, buy the one you like most.
Hardcore IWC fan boys will tell you the quality in finishing is difference. I've own a Mark XVI, and handled a Sinn 103, differnt watch though. I don't see any difference in case or built quality.


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## gkatz

the criteria is different for each person.
if the only criteria is value for money than this watch is probably not worth it.
but, buying a watch in many cases is emotional and in such cases the price tag plays little part...
if the pilot chrono makes you feel good then by all means get it other wise do not bother.
good luck


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## karmatp

Gunnar_917 said:


> IWC watches in general are overpriced in my books. They're nice watches but also expensive.
> 
> Thats beijg said id probably jut go the BP if that's what you really want


All of these watches are overpriced. I think IWC gives you great value compared to many other brands, including Rolex. I have owned many of both brands and recently just purchased another orange hand Explorer II for the 2nd time. My next watch is another IWC pilot for sure. I prefer wearing a band like IWC over Rolex every day.


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## OSUMBA2003

With all due respect, I tend to wonder if people who harp on about IWC's movements or make vague claims about being "overpriced," have ever owned an IWC, let alone even held one or tried one on.

First, some people tend to focus solely on movements. Personally, I don't care who made the movement, as long as it's good. I'd rather have a well built, reliable, accurate 7750 over an in-house movement that's substantially thicker, less accurate, and less-serviceable. There's no place for movement snobbery for me.

Second, the claim that you're "paying for the name" can be said for virtually any luxury brand, including TAG. They all have high priced brand ambassadors and swank events to promote. Brand recognition doesn't buy you permanent luxury status if your product is junk. You can't fool everyone forever. So that's out.

Third, the finishing and attention to detail on an IWC is, in my opinion, far superior to TAG, as well as Rolex and Omega. And the build quality is on par with Rolex, and above Omega and certainly TAG. My Ingenieur is the best built, best finished watch I own.

And I say this as someone who, over time, has owned 4 TAGs, 6 Omegas, 3 Rolexes, and 2 IWCs, so I have firsthand experience.

With respect to the OP's question, no, the Pilot Chrono is not overpriced compared to a TAG. Although the Pilot Chrono wouldn't be my first choice of an IWC, it is nonetheless an excellent watch.

Those are my opinions.


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## Seaswirl

OSUMBA2003 said:


> With all due respect, I tend to wonder if people who harp on about IWC's movements or make vague claims about being "overpriced," have ever owned an IWC, let alone even held one or tried one on.
> 
> First, some people tend to focus solely on movements. Personally, I don't care who made the movement, as long as it's good. I'd rather have a well built, reliable, accurate 7750 over an in-house movement that's substantially thicker, less accurate, and less-serviceable. There's no place for movement snobbery for me.
> 
> Second, the claim that you're "paying for the name" can be said for virtually any luxury brand, including TAG. They all have high priced brand ambassadors and swank events to promote. Brand recognition doesn't buy you permanent luxury status if your product is junk. You can't fool everyone forever. So that's out.
> 
> Third, the finishing and attention to detail on an IWC is, in my opinion, far superior to TAG, as well as Rolex and Omega. And the build quality is on par with Rolex, and above Omega and certainly TAG. My Ingenieur is the best built, best finished watch I own.
> 
> And I say this as someone who, over time, has owned 4 TAGs, 6 Omegas, 3 Rolexesy no, and 2 IWCs, so I have firsthand experience.
> 
> With respect to the OP's question, no, the Pilot Chrono is not overpriced compared to a TAG. Although the Pilot Chrono wouldn't be my first choice of an IWC, it is nonetheless an excellent watch.
> 
> Those are my opinions.


This. Hold the IWC in one hand and a Tag in the other and compare the finishing of the case and dial. The case and dial on my Chronograph Classic are excellent. It's biggest weakness, actually, is the in-house IWC movement. To say IWC is at the same level of a Sinn is, IMHO, nuts. After dealer discounts, IWC pricing is a bit easier to swallow.


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## mav

Kronos13 said:


> Im considering buying a IWC Pilot Chronograph in addition to a nicer dress/sports dress watch I will be making this year. I am very conflicted on the Pilot though, as it seems like the 'Tag' Calibre 16 movement is very generic (and I am concerned about not being able to set the time between 10 and 2). That being said, I do like the look, particularly the newer models.
> 
> However, if the Pilot isnt worth getting, I would be more than willing to wait a while to get the Big Pilot Heritage. What are your thoughts?


As many others have mentioned, IWC is superior to Tag in finishing and will hold its value better.

As for your concern about not being able to set the date (assuming date, not time) between 10 and 2, that's common with virtually all automatic watches. It's actually between 9pm and 3am - due to the date change being engaged, by changing it, you might break the gearing.

I simply cycle through an entire date change, then set the time during the AM hours in the morning to avoid this from ever happening.


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## Armidoro

I also played around with getting an IWC pilot chrono and a rolex gmt II. But in the end the IWC won.










Sent from my Galaxy S8


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## TechGuyJ

Armidoro said:


> I also played around with getting an IWC pilot chrono and a rolex gmt II. But in the end the IWC won.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S8


It's painful how beautiful that blue dial is...

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## dantan

Is the $1,300.00 price premium worth it for the IWC brand over the TAG Heuer brand?

Yes, for me, but it has to be answered by those considering these options.



TechGuyJ said:


> If that is the case, then it calls into question the value of the product. The IWC Pilot Spitfire Chrono is $5,950 USD. The Tag Heuer Carrera Day-Date (cal 16, with the same movement) is $4,650.
> 
> Is it worth it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mdgrwl

There is more to a watch than the movement. The dial detail, case polishing, straps or bracelet used, etc... and don't forget the overall style, size and X-Factor a watch has. 

If you want nothing but "value" - buy a Hamilton or Tissot. If you want a luxury watch that owns the Pilot style - the brand is IWC.


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## TMH478

I am a huge fan of IWC! If you cannot get a break off the retail price, you can always look into preowned! 

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## soaking.fused

mdgrwl said:


> There is more to a watch than the movement. The dial detail, case polishing, straps or bracelet used, etc... and don't forget the overall style, size and X-Factor a watch has.
> 
> If you want nothing but "value" - buy a Hamilton or Tissot. If you want a luxury watch that owns the Pilot style - the brand is IWC.


Well put.


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## big_slacker

I posted on the facebook thread about this thread. But movement snobbery is dumb. First the 7750 used is not an 'off the shelf' movement. Back in the day IWC used to get unassembled 7750 kits and modded them quite a bit to their own spec. This thread details some of the 'old' process:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f350/iwc-modified-movements-explained-256887.html

Now these mods have been incorporated into ETA's manufacturing process so IWC can just order their version of the 7750.

Even if that wasn't the case, what exactly is the big deal here? Many, many luxury watch companies use ETA movements and just because some have moved to in-house doesn't necessarily mean the movement is 'better'. Ask yourself whether the movement is accurate (and to what spec), does it have the complications you want, is the reserve what you like, is it durable, does it cost a .... ton to service and can only be done through the manufacturer and so on. Now ask yourself if the watch itself speaks to you, does the brand's history have some meaning to you, will you enjoy looking at it on your wrist? If so, stop f'in worrying about the movement and enjoy the watch.


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## hantms

Is an IWC Pilot an overpriced Tag : 

Yes. 

Similarly: 

* A Tissot is an overpriced Seiko 5.
* A Longines is an overpriced Tissot
* A Tag Heuer is an overpriced Longines.
* An Omega is an overpriced Tag.
* An IWC is an overpriced Omega.
* A Rolex is an overpriced IWC.
* An Audemars Piguet is an overpriced Rolex.
...


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## dantan

I probably agree with most of your summation, except that a Rolex is an overpriced IWC.

In general, at least in Australia, IWC timepieces are at least as expensive as Rolex timepieces, on average.

IWC probably would like to market themselves at a different (read: higher) level to Rolex.

I own an IWC and like IWC, but I own four Rolex's, so I am not anti-IWC, or anything.

Just my personal take on IWC.



hantms said:


> Is an IWC Pilot an overpriced Tag :
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Similarly:
> 
> * A Tissot is an overpriced Seiko 5.
> * A Longines is an overpriced Tissot
> * A Tag Heuer is an overpriced Longines.
> * An Omega is an overpriced Tag.
> * An IWC is an overpriced Omega.
> * A Rolex is an overpriced IWC.
> * An Audemars Piguet is an overpriced Rolex.
> ...


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## RossFraney

Haha this was always going to cause a storm.. out of the above mentioned I would go with the GMT.


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