# New Stowa 6498 Flieger coming?



## jonathanemra (May 26, 2020)

"From now on - starting with delivery date July 2021 we will offer the movement Unitas 6498 in a slightly modified form. At the end of May, we will present this new movement here pictorially. Possibly there will even be two versions. Let yourself be surprised."









What is your best guess? If its center seconds and hacking, its the perfect Flieger for me. No competition. If its either of the two I'm happy. What do you think?


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## Stowie (Jul 6, 2020)

I’ve heard good things about that movement. Cool combo.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

jonathanemra said:


> "From now on - starting with delivery date July 2021 we will offer the movement Unitas 6498 in a slightly modified form. At the end of May, we will present this new movement here pictorially. Possibly there will even be two versions. Let yourself be surprised."
> View attachment 15873644
> 
> 
> What is your best guess? If its center seconds and hacking, its the perfect Flieger for me. No competition. If its either of the two I'm happy. What do you think?


Imho „slightly modified" does not imply the ETA 6498 will feature a center seconds hand.


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## ivanlt (Oct 25, 2008)

jonathanemra said:


> What is your best guess? If its center seconds and hacking, its the perfect Flieger for me.


I highly doubt it will be the central seconds hand modification. Maybe a Unitas 6498-2 with 21.600 A/h, 3 Hz or a 6498-1 with seconds stop function (this would be very nice).


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## The Geezer (Jan 23, 2019)

‘with seconds stop function’
is that the one where it keeps on going to the 12 and then stops there?
that would be an upgrade I would say.
Not sure what the benefits of ‘21.600 A/h, 3 Hz’ would be. 
by which I mean I don’t know, not that I am casting any doubt on it or belittling it


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## jonathanemra (May 26, 2020)

ivanlt said:


> I highly doubt it will be the central seconds hand modification. Maybe a Unitas 6498-2 with 21.600 A/h, 3 Hz or a 6498-1 with seconds stop function (this would be very nice).


I think youre right, sadly, I would really like center seconds.. The seconds stop function seems interesting though


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## ivanlt (Oct 25, 2008)

The Geezer said:


> 'with seconds stop function'
> is that the one where it keeps on going to the 12 and then stops there?


No it isn't. I am referring to the standard hacking seconds feature (to pull out the crown to stop the second hand).


The Geezer said:


> Not sure what the benefits of '21.600 A/h, 3 Hz' would be.
> by which I mean I don't know, not that I am casting any doubt on it or belittling it


The power reserve of an ETA 6498-2 movement extends to approximately 60 hours.


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## Quartersawn (Nov 20, 2008)

The Stowa FO with central seconds/hacking complication had a modified a 6497. I suppose a 6498 could be made with central seconds/hacking but I don't think I have ever seen one.


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## jonathanemra (May 26, 2020)

Quartersawn said:


> The Stowa FO with central seconds/hacking complication had a modified a 6497. I suppose a 6498 could be made with central seconds/hacking but I don't think I have ever seen one.


Is that their original flieger they only produced around 70-80 examples of? That's actually what led me to dream of those modifications. Also, I was under the impression that the 6497 and 6498 were extremely similar, would it be much different you think?


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Quartersawn said:


> The Stowa FO with central seconds/hacking complication had a modified a 6497. I suppose a 6498 could be made with central seconds/hacking but I don't think I have ever seen one.


6498 with center seconds: Steinhart Nav B LE, Flüthe and (iirc) Tourby.


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

My current Stowa 6498 is 6 years old and still +/- 1 sec a day. The beauty of a hand wound is consistent charging, with the daily ritual wind. Stowa did a fantastic job in finishing the movement and its such a pleasure to observe. This modified movement news is exciting. A central second hand would be cool. I have actually grown to appreciate a non hacking complication. Changing time zones is not too difficult on the fly. I still also enjoy the serviceability ease of the base Unitas 649x. In its simplicity, there are inherent advantages for sure.


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## The Geezer (Jan 23, 2019)

'My current Stowa 6498 is 6 years old and still +/- 1 sec a day. The beauty of a hand wound is consistent charging, with the daily ritual wind.'
I have always thought that the 6498, or 6497, for that matter, would be like that. I just would have liked the central seconds. That was why I found the recent silver Flieger so exciting.
I always wondered why Stowa found getting these movements so tricky. Others offer them as well: Serie 31E - Guinand Watches
Personally, I hope this modified movement comes to the 6498 Flieger and then also the Marine. Imagine a Marine Original (proper hands and all) with central seconds. Now with the old logo, that would be the dream watch&#8230;. Not that it will happen, I don't suppose


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

The Geezer said:


> 'My current Stowa 6498 is 6 years old and still +/- 1 sec a day. The beauty of a hand wound is consistent charging, with the daily ritual wind.'
> I have always thought that the 6498, or 6497, for that matter, would be like that. I just would have liked the central seconds. That was why I found the recent silver Flieger so exciting.
> I always wondered why Stowa found getting these movements so tricky. Others offer them as well: Serie 31E - Guinand Watches
> Personally, I hope this modified movement comes to the 6498 Flieger and then also the Marine. Imagine a Marine Original (proper hands and all) with central seconds. Now with the old logo, that would be the dream watch&#8230;. Not that it will happen, I don't suppose


Hmmh. A Marine Original CS wouldn't be a Marine any more. The small second is/was *the* characteristical feature of a deck watch. A Flieger is a completely different thing.


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## The Geezer (Jan 23, 2019)

Good point but, they do a 36 central second (good hands) and the marine classics have central seconds (and not such good hands in my opinion).


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

The Geezer said:


> Good point but, they do a 36 central second (good hands) and the marine classics have central seconds (and not such good hands in my opinion).


Good point, but doing it wrong (Stowa) does not make it any better. Other manufacturers did chose for the right way to pay tribute to deck watches.


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## Frequent_Flieger (Apr 26, 2020)

StufflerMike said:


> Good point, but doing it wrong (Stowa) does not make it any better. Other manufacturers did chose for the right way to pay tribute to deck watches.


I know Stowa holds claim to being one of the original 5 Flieger producers, but do they have a comparable claim to being a known deck watch manufacturer? Is this part of their history as well? Any links/info appreciated.

I am interested to see what Stowa does with this movement, central seconds is the big rage right now. But my 6497 is not accurate enough to make the seconds hand even that useful. Unless the watch is performing at chronometer levels, does it even matter if the watch includes a seconds hand? Especially if the watch's movement is difficult to modify to include central seconds, as it is with the Unitas handwind movements. Seems like a waste unless the movement is highly regulated


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## jonathanemra (May 26, 2020)

Frequent_Flieger said:


> I know Stowa holds claim to being one of the original 5 Flieger producers, but do they have a comparable claim to being a known deck watch manufacturer? Is this part of their history as well? Any links/info appreciated.
> 
> I am interested to see what Stowa does with this movement, central seconds is the big rage right now. But my 6497 is not accurate enough to make the seconds hand even that useful. Unless the watch is performing at chronometer levels, does it even matter if the watch includes a seconds hand? Especially if the watch's movement is difficult to modify to include central seconds, as it is with the Unitas handwind movements. Seems like a waste unless the movement is highly regulated


I get what youre saying, but to me it's more about symmetry and legibility of the dial. It takes a big hit from the seconds subdial IMO. Also, to me the dial has more "life" with center seconds. Regulation is in large part on the owner after some time, if it's out of spec from factory that's not good obviously, but this should be manageable


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## Erik_H (Oct 23, 2006)

Frequent_Flieger said:


> I know Stowa holds claim to being one of the original 5 Flieger producers, but do they have a comparable claim to being a known deck watch manufacturer? Is this part of their history as well? Any links/info appreciated.


If you visit Stowa's website under Marine watches and scroll down, you will see a pictorial example of a Stowa KM deck watch, and a brief history. For further information on Stowa deck watches I can recommend Konrad Knirim's very good book Military Timepieces.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Frequent_Flieger said:


> I know Stowa holds claim to being one of the original 5 Flieger producers, but do they have a comparable claim to being a known deck watch manufacturer? Is this part of their history as well? Any links/info appreciated.&#8230;


Done a search here on the Stowa Forum ? Anyway, here's the answer.


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## Buramu (Oct 19, 2015)

A deckwatch ought to have a small seconds subdial. Central seconds on a deckwatch makes very little sense as it loses too much of the original pocketwatch aesthetic.


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## PaddyChicago (Mar 8, 2019)

ivanlt said:


> I highly doubt it will be the central seconds hand modification. Maybe a Unitas 6498-2 with 21.600 A/h, 3 Hz or a 6498-1 with seconds stop function (this would be very nice).


 I agree, either option would be nice. The -2 version of the 6498 comes with greater power reserve and, with proper regulation, potential for the same or better chronometer-like accuracy as its -1 sister movement.

A stop seconds or hacking seconds modification would be great, too. 
.


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## Frequent_Flieger (Apr 26, 2020)

Erik_H said:


> If you visit Stowa's website under Marine watches and scroll down, you will see a pictorial example of a Stowa KM deck watch, and a brief history. For further information on Stowa deck watches I can recommend Konrad Knirim's very good book Military Timepieces.


Thank you, I might pick that book up. I could have worded my question better. Yes I have seen Stowas site about their Marine collection. Stowa is known for Fliegers, Blancpain is known for divers, Omega is known for space mission saving chronographs, Hamilton I think train conductor pieces, and of course field watches. Obviously Stowa has a claim to deck watches but are they known as one of the originals or best deck watches? Stowa made tons of divers in the 60s and 70s but aren't known as a Dive watch manufacturer. Whereas with Fliegers Stowa is known throughout the community. I guess my question is where Stowa sits in the deck watch community


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## Dirty Red (Feb 5, 2020)

I am very ok with my 6498 having a petite second hand and no hacking. This movement is so layed back it is like a massage for my ocd.


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## john_marston (Aug 29, 2019)

Frequent_Flieger said:


> Thank you, I might pick that book up. I could have worded my question better. Yes I have seen Stowas site about their Marine collection. Stowa is known for Fliegers, Blancpain is known for divers, Omega is known for space mission saving chronographs, Hamilton I think train conductor pieces, and of course field watches. Obviously Stowa has a claim to deck watches but are they known as one of the originals or best deck watches? Stowa made tons of divers in the 60s and 70s but aren't known as a Dive watch manufacturer. Whereas with Fliegers Stowa is known throughout the community. I guess my question is where Stowa sits in the deck watch community


According to a TGV video their original marine/deck watches were popular in the 30s and 40s. Supposedly used by the navy and on U-boats. Very respectable history and fairly faithful modern interpretations. It's not Ulysse Nardin in terms of history but then again they have 'evolved' into gaudy luxury imo.

Based on Stowa's ads, it seems their bauhaus and marine watches are the runner-ups (after flieger) for being their most popular offerings. All three have interesting history and are great modern reissues.

Their dive watches are very cool too, I like the Seatime but there's something about them that makes them not as big of a hit as the others imho.


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

Frequent_Flieger said:


> Obviously Stowa has a claim to deck watches but are they known as one of the originals or best deck watches?


Yes, they are known as original makers of WW II deck watches.
If 'best' means most accurate mvts. they were not making this quality version. Their watches were called _navigation watch 2nd. class. _They manufactured 1939 the first model (without a brand in the dial) with 288 pcs. and 1943/1944 the second -and better known- model (with *STOWA* and *KM* in the dial) in 2.000 pcs.. All were driven by the Swiss UNITAS movements: Back then Stowa imported Unitas as a general agent to Germany.
The watch's case measures 57 mm in diameter, the later L.E. made by Jörg Schauer were 41 mm only.
Here is the late WW II model framed by the two MO L.E. (white and black dial):










Volker

PS:
Because of trials and tribulations during WW II Stowa manufactured much less than the initially ordered 2.000 pcs.
Many of the parts to assemble these watches were found by Helmut Sinn in the past war years. He used them to build and sell completed navigation watches. All original except of the glass lid on the backside. He couldn't use the original solid backs: They were bearing the swastika and most people didn't want to be reminded of that era.


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## indygreg (May 5, 2019)

I got one of the very first bronze 6498 pieces and it is much nicer finished than my MO from 10 years ago. I wlll try and post some pics later. I wonder if this is what they were talking about?


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## The Geezer (Jan 23, 2019)

It’s getting very ‘end of May’ and still no signs..
Still eager to know more of ‘the two possible versions’


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## Lugan (Nov 12, 2019)

The Geezer said:


> It's getting very 'end of May' and still no signs..
> Still eager to know more of 'the two possible versions'


It's now June and no news that I can see. Anyone get a message stating what the new movement is?


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## jonathanemra (May 26, 2020)

Lugan said:


> It's now June and no news that I can see. Anyone get a message stating what the new movement is?


So glad to see Im not the only one checking the website anxiously ? they changed the statement now that the update is coming in "the coming weeks" ?


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

jonathanemra said:


> So glad to see Im not the only one checking the website anxiously ? they changed the statement now that the update is coming in "the coming weeks" ?


I have a watch on order and perhaps am worrying too much about it. I noticed a comment not long ago about the "becoming rare" screw balance. My fear is that the new movement will replace the balance wheel. I personally do not think it will be anything drastic such as a modified second hand. I will say that my current 6498 Stowa and my 6497 Panerai are both as reliable and accurate as they come. It has made me dump every auto that I previously owned.

The 6498 Flieger is edge to edge perfection. I love that the case size is as small as it can possibly be in order to fit a pocket watch movement.


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## jonathanemra (May 26, 2020)

recon493 said:


> I have a watch on order and perhaps am worrying too much about it. I noticed a comment not long ago about the "becoming rare" screw balance. My fear is that the new movement will replace the balance wheel. I personally do not think it will be anything drastic such as a modified second hand. I will say that my current 6498 Stowa and my 6497 Panerai are both as reliable and accurate as they come. It has made me dump every auto that I previously owned.
> 
> The 6498 Flieger is edge to edge perfection. I love that the case size is as small as it can possibly be in order to fit a pocket watch movement.


absolutely, the edge-to-edge fitting is perfect to me. what watch do you have on order? Whats your current Stowa 6498?

also, general i could pose elsewhere... If you cant hack the movement, how is it"accurate"?


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

I have the Unitas Flieger 6498 (black face) and it is about 5 years old. I am purchasing a similar one to it with a different case finish.

My accuracy is checked with the phone app. I have the model with the sub second hand and its easy to do. I also have timegrapher that also shows just how consisten the amplitude is on this 5 yr old movement. From full wind down to about 36 hours in, the movement shows the same deviation each and every time. This makes it very easy to trust it and setting the watch down face up, and winding it daily, makes for a very consistent routine. This as opposed to my autos that i owned that never saw a consistent charge. To me, handwound is the way to go. Simple movement, cheap service, accurate, and very stable/trustworthy.


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

recon493 said:


> To me, handwound is the way to go. Simple movement, cheap service, accurate, and very stable/trustworthy.


Yes, almost everything is said about HW watches.
Let me add please:
'If you want all these benefits in a smaller case too, you can purchase a vintage-watch. Size doesn't serve as an excuse for an automatic movement.........'

Volker


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

brainless said:


> Yes, almost everything is said about HW watches.
> Let me add please:
> 'If you want all these benefits in a smaller case too, you can purchase a vintage-watch. Size doesn't serve as an excuse for an automatic movement.........'
> 
> Volker


Well said. I inherited my dad's 1964 Benarus government issued military watch that must be in the 34mm range. I am very much waiting in anticipation for Stowa's updated looking movement for the 6498. We should know something soon. In a world full of stress, it is good to have these mental breaks and spirited appreciation for the little things (hobbies).


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## jonathanemra (May 26, 2020)

Still nothing....


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## Frequent_Flieger (Apr 26, 2020)

“From now on - starting with delivery date July 2021 we will offer the movement Unitas 6498 in a slightly modified form. Within the next weeks we will present this new movement here pictorially. Possibly there will even be two versions. Let yourself be surprised.”

…being patient is difficult but rewarding, very interested to watch this play out


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## jonathanemra (May 26, 2020)

Frequent_Flieger said:


> "From now on - starting with delivery date July 2021 we will offer the movement Unitas 6498 in a slightly modified form. Within the next weeks we will present this new movement here pictorially. Possibly there will even be two versions. Let yourself be surprised."
> 
> &#8230;being patient is difficult but rewarding, very interested to watch this play out


After all this waiting, I hope its something cool. Not just updated snailing on the gears or perlage... But an actual movement update


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

An actual movement update would really surprise me, I foresee a more cosmetic effect.


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## PaddyChicago (Mar 8, 2019)

Yes, that seems very plausible as well. Some additional engraving or a choice of engraving styles on the plates and bridges might be offered, for example. I'll be excited to see the outcome regardless.


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## Kenster21 (Jun 13, 2021)

I saw today the Flieger Classic green dial and gold plated hands. I assume that’s new and not something I’ve missed before. I like it.


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## Awesom-O 4000 (Sep 20, 2018)

I wonder if it will look like the Tourby version


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## Nasir Kasmani (Dec 26, 2013)

I have the tourby old military 40.5mm. Unitas 6498. Fantastic watch. I am eagerly waiting what Stowa gonna reveal.


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

My current order for a 6498 has been on the books for a month. I emailed to see if there was any update related to the slightly modified movements and was told that they expect to have them in hand in the next several days.


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## Nasir Kasmani (Dec 26, 2013)

The 'slightly modified movement' is giving me unwarranted optimism of central second. Its the hope that kills.


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## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

Oh, if only that would come true again ... a Stowa Flieger 6498 with hacking central seconds hand.


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## Nasir Kasmani (Dec 26, 2013)

STOWA might be blissfully playful : "There may even be two versions. Let yourself be surprised."


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

I am going to lay down my prediction that it is the same, simple movement with perhaps two color schemes. I am good either way and am equally excited about getting one in a glass bead blast finish for a more toolish look. It will compliment my brushed version I already own. One for uniform wear and another for a dressier approach. I just love the simplicity of the watch and the size is nearly perfect.


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## jonathanemra (May 26, 2020)

Saw this thread got revived, stowa still hasn’t revealed the update. I hope everyone is letting themselves be surprised 😂


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

Based upon my recent order for my new 6498, I do have information that reveals that the new movement is only slightly modified and will not be changing much at all. I will not get ahead of their photo release, as I believe that the photograph that they sent me was only a courtesy and not intended to be released. Basically, one plate, where the regulator lever is located, is smooth in the area where the arc of the regulation adjustment would occur. My current 2016 model has the older logo on the back, as does their current stock image on their website. The new movement I saw has the latest logo/graphic to the left of the standard "S" in the Stowa gold engraving. Pretty underwhelming but I am buying the function of the Unitas movement over the form. So, I am pretty indifferent.


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## The Geezer (Jan 23, 2019)

Interesting and thanks for the update - wonder if they will offer the same for the Marine?


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

The picture provided actually showed "Marine Original" on the back engraving.


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## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

recon493 said:


> Based upon my recent order for my new 6498, I do have information that reveals that the new movement is only slightly modified and will not be changing much at all. I will not get ahead of their photo release, as I believe that the photograph that they sent me was only a courtesy and not intended to be released. Basically, one plate, where the regulator lever is located, is smooth in the area where the arc of the regulation adjustment would occur. My current 2016 model has the older logo on the back, as does their current stock image on their website. The new movement I saw has the latest logo/graphic to the left of the standard "S" in the Stowa gold engraving. Pretty underwhelming but I am buying the function of the Unitas movement over the form. So, I am pretty indifferent.


Thanks for the update ... I guess we'll have to keep the faith that a hacking central hands 6498 will be in the works someday.


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

Here is an image of what I believe to be the 6498 movement that looks like the one that was shared with me a couple of weeks ago.









My new Marine Original Bronze Vintage


Just arrived and I love everything about it, the attention to detail is amazing. A gift from my wife, she also had the gear wheel engraved for my 40th! I really love the temperature browned hands that match the bronze case (pic didn't really capture it well), which as I understand are currently...




www.watchuseek.com


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## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

Ok, now I understand your previous post of a minor change ... thought there would be a more significant movement upgrade for a "new" 6498 Flieger.


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

ParkinNJ said:


> Ok, now I understand your previous post of a minor change ... thought there would be a more significant movement upgrade for a "new" 6498 Flieger.


I received a delivery today having not been aware that my recently ordered Stowa 6498 had shipped from Germany. I was shocked to see the delivery from Stowa. My 6498 I received today is exactly like the one pictured in that other thread. I do find it odd that they have not updated the website. Their wording that there could be two versions does have me curious still. Perhaps they are awaiting that other version to arrive before they display images of the "new" version(s) of the movement. ...still a fan. I hope to do a review of this watch at some point in the near future. I just need to get my macro lens mounted.


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## recon493 (Feb 19, 2009)

Stowa pictured my very watch on their Instagram page today. The matte finish gives it a pretty cool look. The new movement is also adequately pictured in their posting as well.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CSO94DEIo5f/


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## Frequent_Flieger (Apr 26, 2020)

Hey everybody! Hodinkee just posted this article on the MO 41.









In-Depth: The Stowa Marine Original (Live Pics)


Stowa's Marine Original has enjoyed a certain popularity since its release due to a combination of good looks, sturdy build quality, and an attractive price point. These factors combine to make the Marine Original a watch that is frequently touted by those in the know as offering great value for...




www.hodinkee.com





Scrolling down to where they talk about "The Movement" and they are telling us that the MO will be shifting over to the long awaited production version of the Durowe 7440. First I've heard of that. 
It seems like the movement changes Stowa was referring to with the 6498 Flieger is just aesthetics changes, but maybe the future is Durowe, it depends on how much in-house movement making Stowa is willing to take on.


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## Erik_H (Oct 23, 2006)

Frequent_Flieger said:


> Hey everybody! Hodinkee just posted this article on the MO 41.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That article is from 2013...?


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Frequent_Flieger said:


> Hey everybody! Hodinkee just posted this article on the MO 41.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What does „just" mean in your terms ? 10 years ago? The Durowe 7440 died a long time ago. Only a few Marine with 7440 have been made/sold and the encouraging attempt to go „in-house" vanished completely. A shame if you ask me.


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## Frequent_Flieger (Apr 26, 2020)

Sorry everyone, false alarm. I was reading the date at the top of that page. Makes much more sense now.


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## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

Erik_H said:


> That article is from 2013...?


Almost frantically searched the Stowa website for a Durowe movement announcement. lol


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## The Geezer (Jan 23, 2019)

That would have been something… the MO with Durowe as new old stock or remade in house project. Either would be perfect. But not to be


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

The Geezer said:


> That would have been something&#8230; the MO *with Durowe as new old stock *or remade in house project. Either would be perfect. But not to be


This is no MO but a Flieger:



































Driven by a DUROWE 7420.
The watch is 19 years old, the movement 49 years................

Volker


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## The Geezer (Jan 23, 2019)

brainless said:


> This is no MO but a Flieger:


What a beauty! It's a real shame that with the rights to the Durowe name and IP they couldn't develop more in house. 
I love your old movement though - what a great piece!


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