# Hello all



## markpara

I am new to the Forum, I have always had a passion for watches and now I am trying to create my own watch brand. I take inspiration from the Atlantic Worldmaster brand. I have always love the ETA movements due to their reliability. My watch brand will be called Carpathia and I am now in the beginning stages of design. I am an excellent Illustrator and Designer so I am sketching out the designs etc. I will later be looking for manufacturers that do custom work to create all necessary components such as dial with raised logo , custom case and engraved caseback with see throuh caseback such as tissot visodate, custom hands, custom crown . I will be creating my watch around the ETA 2836-2 automatic day date movement. I have done a lot of browsing and have found a lot of helpful threads on micro brands. 
I would appreciate any additional information anyone has. Currently I have designed my logo and I am now beginning a design for my dial. Along with that I will work on a story for my brand. There is meaning behind my name which relates to the Carpathian Mountains in Europe also know as the Tatry in Poland which is where my family is from.

Here are my beginning stages of development.

first sketches 






View attachment carpathia type.jpg
View attachment carpathia type_2.pdf






Final logo design

Dial Rough


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## BaldurWatches

Like the logo. The dial is simple and looks appealing. I'd like to see the case design as well as the band.


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## MechaMind

Very nice graphics ( well educated and trained) skills - Only thing I would try to make sure is that those fine tips on the hands are manufacturable and the fine lines on your logo could be done with a tampo print system, without loosing their filigrane look due to the applicable minimum of color on the rubber! - You certainly can do a 0.2mm line but a 0.0mm sharp tip?


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## markpara

Thanks ! I am going for a simple art deco style watch. Once i sketch up the case I will post pictures, as for the watch straps I make my own so it will most likely be a nice vintage leather style but of coarse that will be up to the customer. =)


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## markpara

MechaMind said:


> Very nice graphics ( well educated and trained) skills - Only thing I would try to make sure is that those fine tips on the hands are manufacturable and the fine lines on your logo could be done with a tampo print system, without loosing their filigrane look due to the applicable minimum of color on the rubber! - You certainly can do a 0.2mm line but a 0.0mm sharp tip?


Thank you very much ! As far as the hands go I do want them to be fine tips I may alter them still. I am not very familiar with the tampo print system but I will read up on it. Yes I deffinately would like to retain the curvature and accents on the typeface. Ya I suppose I would just need a manufacturer to see how thin they can get the hands. As of right now I do not have any sourced.

I appreciate your help and suggestion, I am very excited and determined to create a very clean and well manufactured watch with a timeless design. =)


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## MechaMind

Pardon my question - you're graphics designer and or illustrator - are you? Just spoken curiously! Your sketch / overlay style shows the pro... !  Love that style, but would avoid to buy that horrible expensive pens! - and have far too little practice as experience.... unfortunately


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## markpara

MechaMind said:


> Pardon my question - you're graphics designer and or illustrator - are you? Just spoken curiously! Your sketch / overlay style shows the pro... !  Love that style, but would avoid to buy that horrible expensive pens! - and have far too little practice as experience.... unfortunately


Yes I am a Graphic Designer. I do not really have expensive pens per sey, just an expensive tablet called an Intuos pro which allows me to create my Illustrations into vector art/Digital. I finished my Bachelors in Visual Design Studies at Columbia College Chicago in 2012. 
|>


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## MechaMind

Nice - I just own a Bamboo tablet + Corel Paint. But have the problem that I can't watch the screen and coordinate my hands on the desk with the sketch on screen but like to draw directly on paper -what means that I don't use it that much - what finally goes contra improvement ... I do more in direction of practical shaping and CAD works ... The pens I assumed you use would cost 200$ for 32 pcs ... ( similar to COPIC markers)

thats mine - but just hobbyist level!
https://www.watchuseek.com/f77/while-waiting-my-inverter-2733322.html


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## markpara

Here is my case design i am going for an art deco style. Once I have someone mock this up in cad for me then I can make slight changes.


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## MechaMind

You might want to mockup this watch yourself as it is no great effort ( 1..2 hours for raw visual modelling) and you would be able to independently do changes and itherations

What I feel is that you use a very narrow strap in relation to the large case diameter - and have rather long lugs.... and brand "C" logo on the bottom ring appears someway .... without orientation to me ... perhaps you could try to get the whole brand name on the ring to make sure that it is not understood as an abstract fish symbol for water tightness. 

hj


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## markpara

MechaMind said:


> You might want to mockup this watch yourself as it is no great effort ( 1..2 hours for raw visual modelling) and you would be able to independently do changes and itherations
> 
> What I feel is that you use a very narrow strap in relation to the large case diameter - and have rather long lugs.... and brand "C" logo on the bottom ring appears someway .... without orientation to me ... perhaps you could try to get the whole brand name on the ring to make sure that it is not understood as an abstract fish symbol for water tightness.
> 
> hj


What program are you referring to do a mockup in ? As far as the straps I would use a 19 to 20mm. The C logo was just a trial and error, I think sticking with the whole logo on the caseback and crown would be ideal. As far as the back the center is glass and the shape your looking at is the mechanical winding mechanism. Do you have any links or sources I can utilize that have quality work as far as production of parts?


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## MechaMind

difficult - especially in the US - you should ask this questions in watchmaker forum ..... in Germany there are 3 manufacturer I know, they don't prototype - but if you would pay a 5 digits price for a number of 50 pcs minimum as small series production just for the metal parts! + small parts + movement + 2 Saphire glasses + strap + dial + hands without assembly.

This is one of the reasons I did not try myself with a micro brand - I do not see the market for a watch for which I - in case of the small production amount I would have to pay twice the money for the parts than a large manufacturer - and to offer unique options I think I would have to have a VERY special design .. special complications special material or something else what differeniates my watch from the 100000 others which are already established on the market in a way which is so clear that it will be bought!!


I use Rhino 3D wich is someway a hybrid in between a Tech CAD and a design cad - Means you can generate technical dimensions and drawings with and you can do technical illustrations - you can buy plugins for photorealistic rendering and 3rd party products for CAM for manufacturing.... At the beginning its a bit hard to get used to it but you rather fast find into this GUI which is pretty good, compared with more expensive programs ... Mc Neel offers a 25 saves free trial so you can try yourself ... If you would be interested I wrote a tutorial to dig into that 
- not really watch related but who cares....


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## MechaMind

I spent about an hour in a quick and dirty mockup done in Rhino5 - I have the assumption that you if you want to stay close to your sketches might get into issues due to little knowledge of the program - I for myself had to find several detail solutions which keep the mockup close to the original look and to stay producable - ( and it is far from beeing cost and wear optimized ) so you would have a lot to do to get from the sketches to a produceable model ... My mockup data is not for share but just to show you what to get out of this process... Time I needed was 1:15 h until this state ... time I estimated to need was 45min . For a beginner probably several days of trial and error... without implementing the necessary functional dimensions and tolerances. Your strap (22mm) appears still too narrow for that case size ( much too large)


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## markpara

MechaMind said:


> I spent about an hour in a quick and dirty mockup done in Rhino5 - I have the assumption that you if you want to stay close to your sketches might get into issues due to little knowledge of the program - I for myself had to find several detail solutions which keep the mockup close to the original look and to stay producable - ( and it is far from beeing cost and wear optimized ) so you would have a lot to do to get from the sketches to a produceable model ... My mockup data is not for share but just to show you what to get out of this process... Time I needed was 1:15 h until this state ... time I estimated to need was 45min . For a beginner probably several days of trial and error... without implementing the necessary functional dimensions and tolerances. Your strap (22mm) appears still too narrow for that case size
> 
> View attachment 6567034


Ahh yes it would definitely be a learning curve. I can see it being doable but it will definitely take a lot of time. I know what you mean with creating a watch that is different from the ones out there. I have an idea that might be pretty unique but I will have to see. I do like what you have done with my sketches I think this would look very nice with something that like you stated differentiates my brand from others. Im looking to keep my brand within a specific niche and creating a good story to go along with it. What I am trying to figure out now is a model name for my first series of watches. I have an idea of naming the model as follows, ex. mountaineer, climber, Ascend, or Ascent. Also I was thinking of using altitudes as the models for the watches ex. the highest peaks of the Carpathian Mountains. The reason behind these names is the fact that Carpathia came from the Carpathian Mountains in Europe and the Bird which is a stork as part of the logo represents the Bird from my hometown near the mountains. Now I do realize the type of watch I have is more of a classy watch than a sporty watch but the idea I have is to make something that will allow you to use it as both. I will like to release 1 model, 4 watches with different color variations.

They are as follows. 
-Rose Gold case, hands, crown and navy blue dial.
-Chrome case, hands,crown with rose gold/salmon dial such as vintage delbana chronographs circa 1940.
-Brushed Gold case,hands,crown with black dial.
-Matte Black case , hands, crown, with off white dial.


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## markpara

I do agree with you that the strap looks too narrow. it would definitely need to be bigger. As far as the movement I would be working the design of the case, dimensions etc. around the ETA 2836-2 movement http://www.sapphytimes.com/wimages/2836-2.jpg. I can definitely make a bigger case but then have to produce a bigger spacer ring inside the case to keep the movement in place. Thanks for all of the input and help I really appreciate it!


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## MechaMind

Just for information - there is a process going on which might make it difficult in near future ,-when it comes to availlability of ETA movements and parts for the common market .. 2836 - not sure if there are pendants outside .. could be an idea to eventually think about an available alternative ...

About the current watch --- it unifies elements of a marriage ( size and crown) B-watch size and case shape and dress watch ( hands and dial ) but it ist too large for a dress watch to be worn below a dress and the strap does not fit to a B-watch


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## markpara

MechaMind said:


> View attachment 6569378
> Just for information - there is a process going on which might make it difficult in near future ,-when it comes to availlability of ETA movements and parts for the common market .. 2836 - not sure if there are pendants outside .. could be an idea to eventually think about an available alternative ...
> 
> About the current watch --- it unifies elements of a marriage ( size and crown) B-watch size and case shape and dress watch ( hands and dial ) but it ist too large for a dress watch to be worn below a dress and the strap does not fit to a B-watch


If that is a problem then I can definitely use a different movement in the future. From experience i have had several of these movements and they have been very reliable.

I am no sure what you mean by B-watch can you be more specific.

Thank you, 
Mark


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## MechaMind

In Germany it is called Beobachtungsuhr If you would look at old Hanhart or Hamilton or similar avionic or military watches...

Quasi-copied or evolved in design "some thousand times"...... until it became an own watch style Branche . Big dial - normally solid lume indexes to be seen at night. Big crown to be handled with gloves, long and strong wristband to be worn over the pilots overall - Very rigid
/ robust design .

http://uhrforum.de/attachments/3238...-kleiner-sekunde-made-in-germany-dsc01473.jpg

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...806369e30a51d6f951464c46f5d5d2fco0&ajaxhist=0


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## mkws

I would suggest not using a strap size like 19mm- straps sized 15,17,19mm are hardly available anywhere and narrow the watch owner's choice of strap. Typical sizes are even numbers like 16, 18, 20, 22mm. If these narrow (compared to the case diameter) lugs are to be 22mm, then the watch itself will be large enough to be hardly wearable. That's at least 50mm going by how it looks in the picture, and 47mm is already monstrous. That's pocket watch size territory. Art-deco style case? Surely a nice idea. The only vintage wristwatch with a diameter over 50mm (55, to be precise) was the original Stowa Flieger, but even this seems to have been designed to be worn over the pilot's coat/oufit, not directly on the wrist.

In other words- such watches look good only if someone has a monstrous wrist. Otherwise, it's like a wall clock with a strap. Which makes no sense, really. Although that's putting it mildly- it's not even massive, it's an abomination. Maybe it's fashionable now, but neither practical nor comfortable. Just my opinion.

The design itself is really simple and nice, but really would benefit from changing the proportions between the lug size and the diameter. Also, a size south of 43mm would be much better. If you want a transparent case back, and from the technical drawings so it appears, then keep in mind, that compared to the massive case size any ETA or Sellita automatic movement will look really small. So will any Soprod. And with ETA ceasing to supply anyone outside the Swatch Group, Sellita and Soprod are your only choices, should you want the movement to be a Swiss one. 

Even when I have a look at my 43mm Edox, the position of the balance wheel of the ETA 2824 inside it indicates, where approximately the movement ends, and the case starts. And the space between the edge of the movement and the outer edge of the case is MASSIVE. 
The ETA 2836 is a 11.5''' size movement, which is around 25-26mm. So is the 2824. 
These calibres were originally designed for watches with the size typical for men's watches all the way between the 1930s and the 1990s. And that range started with 28-30mm to 38mm tops, with an exception for tool watches- diver watches, racing or aviator-style chronographs. Even the Rolex Submariner, which is quite a chunky tool watch, measures only 40mm. The late 1960s Omega Speedmaster "Moonwatch" was considered a large tool watch, and it measures...42mm.

Therefore, my suggestions would be:
Use a date only or no-date movement. Day-date causes too many things to happen in this design at the same time. Which some like- I don't (that's just my opinion).
Reduce size.
Change lugs/case size proportions.

I really like the logo, both the font and the side view of a stork in flight.


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## MechaMind

You are right: I did the model just after the sketches of the previous page - and not for the real look/ size but just to show the process

For a 22mm strap the case would be rather 58mm diameter usable only on a belt around your belly! And not effortable due to a 53mm domed Saphire crystal.... !


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## markpara

mkws said:


> I would suggest not using a strap size like 19mm- straps sized 15,17,19mm are hardly available anywhere and narrow the watch owner's choice of strap. Typical sizes are even numbers like 16, 18, 20, 22mm. If these narrow (compared to the case diameter) lugs are to be 22mm, then the watch itself will be large enough to be hardly wearable. That's at least 50mm going by how it looks in the picture, and 47mm is already monstrous. That's pocket watch size territory. Art-deco style case? Surely a nice idea. The only vintage wristwatch with a diameter over 50mm (55, to be precise) was the original Stowa Flieger, but even this seems to have been designed to be worn over the pilot's coat/oufit, not directly on the wrist.
> 
> In other words- such watches look good only if someone has a monstrous wrist. Otherwise, it's like a wall clock with a strap. Which makes no sense, really. Although that's putting it mildly- it's not even massive, it's an abomination. Maybe it's fashionable now, but neither practical nor comfortable. Just my opinion.
> 
> The design itself is really simple and nice, but really would benefit from changing the proportions between the lug size and the diameter. Also, a size south of 43mm would be much better. If you want a transparent case back, and from the technical drawings so it appears, then keep in mind, that compared to the massive case size any ETA or Sellita automatic movement will look really small. So will any Soprod. And with ETA ceasing to supply anyone outside the Swatch Group, Sellita and Soprod are your only choices, should you want the movement to be a Swiss one.
> 
> Even when I have a look at my 43mm Edox, the position of the balance wheel of the ETA 2824 inside it indicates, where approximately the movement ends, and the case starts. And the space between the edge of the movement and the outer edge of the case is MASSIVE.
> The ETA 2836 is a 11.5''' size movement, which is around 25-26mm. So is the 2824.
> These calibres were originally designed for watches with the size typical for men's watches all the way between the 1930s and the 1990s. And that range started with 28-30mm to 38mm tops, with an exception for tool watches- diver watches, racing or aviator-style chronographs. Even the Rolex Submariner, which is quite a chunky tool watch, measures only 40mm. The late 1960s Omega Speedmaster "Moonwatch" was considered a large tool watch, and it measures...42mm.
> 
> Therefore, my suggestions would be:
> Use a date only or no-date movement. Day-date causes too many things to happen in this design at the same time. Which some like- I don't (that's just my opinion).
> Reduce size.
> Change lugs/case size proportions.
> 
> I really like the logo, both the font and the side view of a stork in flight.


Hello and Thank you for the excellent feedback.

So as far as case diameter I have narrowed it down to 42mm the size of a Hamilton Jazzmaster. Length would be 51mm. So I would be using a 22mm strap. As far ast the movement I do not have to go with the ETA . I am looking to make a watch that has a reliable swiss movement. So we can knock the ETA 2836 off the list. I actually prefer a clear caseback that shows a big movement like a maurice lacroix not a dinky one as you stated. Which do you recommend that is affordable accessible and reliable for a 42mm case. Preferably date automatic. My dial will be 40mm if I am correct. I definitely do not want an invitica size or diesel size watch haha.

Another question I have is where can i find sources for parts manufacturers Ive been looking everywhere I contacted universo, and montrichard group but no luck with that as of yet. Maybe you can enlighten me on the true meaning of a watch when it says swiss made on the dial are all the components of the watch made in Switzerland? Do I have to put swiss made if I am using a swiss movement or is that just for the buyer to give him a peace of mind so to speak do to the reputation of the name ? Ill be making an instagram profile shortly and uploading all my progress Ill let you guys know when I do so.

Thanks again !


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## markpara

Actual size sketches.


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## MechaMind

Viewing your sketches I would ask to thik about the design of the lugs ... from side view they appear rather fragile / small... from top side you want to apply a floating camfer wich reduces diameter further imagine what this means to the proportions of of the watch

If you want to have a broad spectre of watch movements 

ETA sells the 2824-2 which is rather similar ( rather same dimensions as SW20) and i guess there is also a China clone exisiting

I dont know, if CONCEPTO would also work on this size....


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## markpara

MechaMind said:


> Viewing your sketches I would ask to thik about the design of the lugs ... from side view they appear rather fragile / small... from top side you want to apply a floating camfer wich reduces diameter further imagine what this means to the proportions of of the watch
> 
> If you want to have a broad spectre of watch movements
> 
> ETA sells the 2824-2 which is rather similar ( rather same dimensions as SW20) and i guess there is also a China clone exisiting
> 
> I dont know, if CONCEPTO would also work on this size....


The side views are just ideas for the side of the watch both are side views none are top side view. I think the one on top looks nice, I liked the rough you produced that arch looked excellent. Im looking for a swiss movement definately, a date automatic that is big in size so that you can see a lot of movement with the glass caseback window.


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## mkws

A watch with a Swiss movement, but not assembled in Switzerland, doesn't have a "Swiss Made" or "Swiss" marking. _Exempli gratia_: Stowa uses Swiss movements, but all their watches are assembled in Germany, and so have a "Made in Germany" on them. 
Since you're located in the US, you can use "Made in the USA" "American made" , "USA", "US Made" or whatever you think will suit the watch. If you want to emphasize the fact of the movement being Swiss, you can put "Swiss Movement" or "Swiss Movt." somewhere on the watch.
Automatic movement bigger than 12 lignes? Among the current ones? Good luck with that- both Sellita and Soprod make either ETA clones or modify the basic ETA movements (Soprod A10).
There are companies that make custom dials, also in larger quantities. Google out "custom watch dials" or something like that. Watch case companies also exist, many of them located in Pforzheim, Germany. But I suppose, that in order to have exactly the case design you want, you need to make the cases yourself. If you intend to manufacture watches, this will happen sooner or later. And, truth be told, doesn't make your watch business dependent from a supplier.
@MechaMind: The lugs don't seem fragile to me. 
As a matter of fact, since they are concave on the sides, they remind me of my absolutely favourite vintage watch in my collection- a Zenith, dating to 1948:








Also, the dial of the OP's watch project has certain similarities to my Zenith- notice the similar minute track.


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## markpara

mkws said:


> A watch with a Swiss movement, but not assembled in Switzerland, doesn't have a "Swiss Made" or "Swiss" marking. _Exempli gratia_: Stowa uses Swiss movements, but all their watches are assembled in Germany, and so have a "Made in Germany" on them.
> Since you're located in the US, you can use "Made in the USA" "American made" , "USA", "US Made" or whatever you think will suit the watch. If you want to emphasize the fact of the movement being Swiss, you can put "Swiss Movement" or "Swiss Movt." somewhere on the watch.
> Automatic movement bigger than 12 lignes? Among the current ones? Good luck with that- both Sellita and Soprod make either ETA clones or modify the basic ETA movements (Soprod A10).
> There are companies that make custom dials, also in larger quantities. Google out "custom watch dials" or something like that. Watch case companies also exist, many of them located in Pforzheim, Germany. But I suppose, that in order to have exactly the case design you want, you need to make the cases yourself. If you intend to manufacture watches, this will happen sooner or later. And, truth be told, doesn't make your watch business dependent from a supplier.
> @MechaMind: The lugs don't seem fragile to me.
> As a matter of fact, since they are concave on the sides, they remind me of my absolutely favourite vintage watch in my collection- a Zenith, dating to 1948:
> View attachment 6592850
> 
> 
> Also, the dial of the OP's watch project has certain similarities to my Zenith- notice the similar minute track.


Ok yes that is what I was assuming as well, just wanted to clarify. I might just put Chicago Made. The whole story behind the watch brand revolves around Poland so I was thinking of somehow incorporating that but I do not want to overdue it and have it not make sense. I like the Idea of the Soprod A10 movements. I will dig into the Dial and Case-making some more. As far as getting the exact design I want; I will have my friend that is an engineer and makes airplane parts for Boeing create an exact model in whatever program he uses. With those specs I should be able to get a manufacturer to produce the cases.

I have to agree that I do not think the lugs are too thin I have many vintage watches with thin lugs and the zenith you have on I had a pristine condition one I sold a year ago !


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## mkws

An identical one? Calibre 126-5? 
So now I know where did you get inspiration from- vintage watches are a gold mine of ideas for new watch concepts. 
Oh, and another thing- maybe add a counterweight to the second hand.
"Chicago Made" sounds a bit odd. If you already have "Chicago-Poland" on the dial, I think that there'd be too much Chicago in there already with an additional "Chicago Made". 
The country where a watch was made being indicated on the dial wasn't always there- for example, at some point a "Swiss" or "Swiss Made" inscription was added due to import laws of the countries where the watches were to be sold. For example, my 1939 Tissot doesn't have any marking on the bottom of the dial. Still, it hardly gets any more Swiss than Tissot- at some point, they were selling more watches in Switzerland alone, than any other watch company.
I think, that if you go into combining the Bauhaus and Art-Deco styles (which is what it appears that you do) in one watch, then for the dial I'd stay with the Bauhaus simplicity and not overcrowd it with inscriptions. There are some watches, where the simplicity was ruined by a lot of text- look at the Rolex Daytona- it looks like they've printed an entire book on the dial. It's like that:
Rolex
Oyster Perpetual
Superlative Chronometer
Officially Certified
Cosmograph
Daytona.
How many inscriptions more? Look at the first generation of hand-wound Daytonas- without all that writing, it was much simpler, and thus more understated and elegant.
It's good to hear, that you have someone who will help you with the case model- an exact model is what you will definitely need, no matter if you want to have a case company manufacture them for you, or do you want to make the case yourself. Also, you'll probably need to work with a dial company on creating a dial, that exactly matches your vision and concept technical drawings- after all, you wouldn't want to end up with a lot of dials, which would be a disappointment.


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## MechaMind

@ MKWS - I did not mean fragile in structural background - In the sketches top view I found those finlelines on the lugs wich idicated a kind of chamfer too me which would lighten the "optical weight " of the lugs and would make them appear fragile ( this might be just my impression taken out of that sketch!)


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## markpara

mkws said:


> An identical one? Calibre 126-5?
> So now I know where did you get inspiration from- vintage watches are a gold mine of ideas for new watch concepts.
> Oh, and another thing- maybe add a counterweight to the second hand.
> "Chicago Made" sounds a bit odd. If you already have "Chicago-Poland" on the dial, I think that there'd be too much Chicago in there already with an additional "Chicago Made".
> The country where a watch was made being indicated on the dial wasn't always there- for example, at some point a "Swiss" or "Swiss Made" inscription was added due to import laws of the countries where the watches were to be sold. For example, my 1939 Tissot doesn't have any marking on the bottom of the dial. Still, it hardly gets any more Swiss than Tissot- at some point, they were selling more watches in Switzerland alone, than any other watch company.
> I think, that if you go into combining the Bauhaus and Art-Deco styles (which is what it appears that you do) in one watch, then for the dial I'd stay with the Bauhaus simplicity and not overcrowd it with inscriptions. There are some watches, where the simplicity was ruined by a lot of text- look at the Rolex Daytona- it looks like they've printed an entire book on the dial. It's like that:
> Rolex
> Oyster Perpetual
> Superlative Chronometer
> Officially Certified
> Cosmograph
> Daytona.
> How many inscriptions more? Look at the first generation of hand-wound Daytonas- without all that writing, it was much simpler, and thus more understated and elegant.
> It's good to hear, that you have someone who will help you with the case model- an exact model is what you will definitely need, no matter if you want to have a case company manufacture them for you, or do you want to make the case yourself. Also, you'll probably need to work with a dial company on creating a dial, that exactly matches your vision and concept technical drawings- after all, you wouldn't want to end up with a lot of dials, which would be a disappointment.


I dont recall the calibre it was over two years ago. Yes exactly I love Vintage watches, Oh yes I definately would not want to overcrowd the dial I would just stick to Chicago-Poland. and possibly swiss mvmt or automatic one or the other or none. I love the vintage watch styles they are timeless. I have over 20 watches in my collection primarily Atlantic, as well as tissot, raymond weil, frederique constant, hamilton adriatica, iaxa, delbana, thoresen reciprico chrono, bucherer, are the ones I remember off the top of my head. I am only 27 so my collection will only grow haha. Yes I have to agree with you on the Daytona it is overkill! I dont have the machinery to create my own case that would be amazing though. As far as the dials, yes I do not want to be stuck with 1000 ugly dials haha. Hopefully I can find a good reputable Dial manufacturer to produce them for me.


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## Medusa

I like the bird logo. In my unprofessional opinion I would like to see the bird flying in the other direction with it's wings slanted back a little more. 

Thanks for sharing and looking forward to seeing more of your work.


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## markpara

Medusa said:


> I like the bird logo. In my unprofessional opinion I would like to see the bird flying in the other direction with it's wings slanted back a little more.
> 
> Thanks for sharing and looking forward to seeing more of your work.


Thanks !


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## markpara

First version dial offwhite,mattblack combo. Textured dial without Hands. 







Dial with ring 







dial without ring.

Here is my design for the first color combo dials. The case will be Matte black with offwhite dial and black lettering. I am still going to add the date option just realized that was not on these samples.


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## mkws

Black case...PVD? Maybe just use a darker alloy for the case- PVD tends to wear out and scratch easily.
I really like that dial design now.


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## markpara

mkws said:


> Black case...PVD? Maybe just use a darker alloy for the case- PVD tends to wear out and scratch easily.
> I really like that dial design now.


Send me a link to the type you are referring to, I do agree that the black will get scratched up. Thank you I think the dials are nice as well do you have any preferences as far as the dial texture that I am referring to?


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## mkws

The dial texture is OK- reminds me of the 1960s design used in the Atlantic Worldmaster. The darker alloys used for watch cases were being often referred to as "gun metal". You can see them in quite a lot of 1900s-1910s pocket watches. Some 1930s wristwatches as well. They're not as durable as stainless steel, though- the nickel(1910s-1920s PWs) and Staybrite steel (1930s WWs and PWs) cases seem to usually be in a better shape than gun metal cases made around the same time. I'm not a metallurgist, so I'm not able to help with what these alloys contain. Just general observations on the looks and durability.
What is used for the black PVD coating probably depends on the brand. One of the more durable black platings out there is the one once used in the Heuer Monza- although a quick look shows up a lot of battered specimens of the Monza as well.


----------



## markpara

mkws said:


> The dial texture is OK- reminds me of the 1960s design used in the Atlantic Worldmaster. The darker alloys used for watch cases were being often referred to as "gun metal". You can see them in quite a lot of 1900s-1910s pocket watches. Some 1930s wristwatches as well. They're not as durable as stainless steel, though- the nickel(1910s-1920s PWs) and Staybrite steel (1930s WWs and PWs) cases seem to usually be in a better shape than gun metal cases made around the same time. I'm not a metallurgist, so I'm not able to help with what these alloys contain. Just general observations on the looks and durability.
> What is used for the black PVD coating probably depends on the brand. One of the more durable black platings out there is the one once used in the Heuer Monza- although a quick look shows up a lot of battered specimens of the Monza as well.


Excellent information, I definitely want my watches to last as long as possible the little details are what makes everything better. Ya I was looking at my atlantic as well as my raymond weil which had texture and kind of went off of that. Its always an option but I guess the cleaner the better now adays.


----------



## markpara

Follow me on instagram @carpathiawatches for updates on the build


----------



## dspt

sunburst texture is a nice touch. but we are yet to see how will it work with the day/date windows. you will need to calculate the place for windows on the dial according to the movement you'll use. Also, as you are using your own font there, you'll probably have to reprint day and date wheels of the movement during production


----------



## markpara

dspt said:


> sunburst texture is a nice touch. but we are yet to see how will it work with the day/date windows. you will need to calculate the place for windows on the dial according to the movement you'll use. Also, as you are using your own font there, you'll probably have to reprint day and date wheels of the movement during production


Hello, I will be swithching to a automatic date movement but I am not sure which one yet. As far as font it is a custom font for the numbers on the dial. For the date movement I beleieve a standard font would work is it usually helvetica? I think reprinting the date wheel would be too much of an expense.


----------



## Davidcs

Hi markpara,

I like your design, both the dial and case are looking pretty good so far! I'm interested in what kind of hands you’ll decide to use with the dial? 
About the date wheel, I also think it would probably cost a lot to get it reprinted, and also the factory font on any Swiss movement is rather nice IMO. (At least the ones I've seen)


----------



## markpara

Davidcs said:


> Hi markpara,
> 
> I like your design, both the dial and case are looking pretty good so far! I'm interested in what kind of hands you'll decide to use with the dial?
> About the date wheel, I also think it would probably cost a lot to get it reprinted, and also the factory font on any Swiss movement is rather nice IMO. (At least the ones I've seen)


I have some Ideas for the hands as well as the crown. I agree with you on the font. check back soon for updates. 
Thanks !


----------



## markpara

Davidcs said:


> Hi markpara,
> 
> I like your design, both the dial and case are looking pretty good so far! I'm interested in what kind of hands you'll decide to use with the dial?
> About the date wheel, I also think it would probably cost a lot to get it reprinted, and also the factory font on any Swiss movement is rather nice IMO. (At least the ones I've seen)


I have some Ideas for the hands as well as the crown. I agree with you on the font. check back soon for updates. 
Thanks !


----------



## markpara

I have made some changed to the dial design the hour markers are sharper. I also made some changes on the second hand. The case is just to give you guys a better example of what its would look like. I do however want to use a similar crown design.


----------



## markpara

Here is the exact color combo that I will be offering 1 of 4 . either a black case or brushed gun metal finish.


----------



## markpara

version 2 of 5 , Note cases,as well as crowns are for mockup purposes not actual cases although similar in style.


----------



## MechaMind

Hey Marc! What about a foggy ( guilloche structured clouds) night blue dial with silver indexes and perhaps a yellow moon for the small second subdial of a Unitas ... Nightfall in Carpathia
( I already can hear the wolves )  ( no kidding - this is a serious idea!)

Until now I best like the white on black variant - ( what would you think about dark grey (graphite))

another suggestion would be to rework the date window frame. All the indexes and hands are rather dominant, what makes the frame of the window fairly disappearing and as there is no perfect match of the color of the datewheel and the wool white dial - it looks a bit strange to me ( - perhaps just to me). ( Just talking about the white on black since the copper / rosé with the grey applica is not míne ( sry). I'm with contrasts , hard edges and accents.


----------



## mkws

The red gold case with a brown strap is a GREAT combination with that dial! I like that crown design too. Although the one in variant 3/5 is nice as well.


----------



## dspt

markpara said:


> Hello, I will be swithching to a automatic date movement but I am not sure which one yet. As far as font it is a custom font for the numbers on the dial. For the date movement I beleieve a standard font would work is it usually helvetica? I think reprinting the date wheel would be too much of an expense.


Just saw custom font on day/date on the very first drawings you posted when started this thread, and thought I'll point this out


----------



## markpara

Mechamind, I think the scnerey is not what I am going for unless I was a well established brand such as Omega and did a version like that haha. 

As far as the black case off white dial are you referring to a dark grey graphite for the case ? If so then yes I would probably do that over black because it would be more durable. 

From what I understand you are suggesting to change the shape and the color of the date window frame? Im sorry its a bit hard for me to understand your wording. 

Thank you ! =-)


----------



## markpara

dspt said:


> Just saw custom font on day/date on the very first drawings you posted when started this thread, and thought I'll point this out


Im sorry I am not sure what you are trying to point out about the custom font? I have decided not to use custom font if that is what you are referring to. I have redesigned the dial all together if you compare the latest mockups to the first ones I posted. 
Thanks


----------



## markpara

mkws said:


> The red gold case with a brown strap is a GREAT combination with that dial! I like that crown design too. Although the one in variant 3/5 is nice as well.


I definitely agree with you on the Crown design that is the one I will most likely stick with. Although I do like the first variant with the offwhite dial and rose gold case, I am going to go with variant 3/5 only because it is something different that you do not see.

Thanks for the Input ! =)


----------



## yankeexpress

Good to read you have moved on from the ETA 2836, as they are now difficult to source. The Sellita is a good alternative, but the Soprod A-10 is also a good choice, also Swiss made.

Somebody posted earlier in this thread that the Soprod A-10 is an ETA design. This is not true. The Soprod A-10 is a modern Seiko design, a good thing, though Swiss made.

If you need a less expensive hi-beat movement, the Citizen/Miyota 9015 is a good, reliable alternative, though not Swiss.


----------



## markpara

yankeexpress said:


> Good to read you have moved on from the ETA 2836, as they are now difficult to source. The Sellita is a good alternative, but the Soprod A-10 is also a good choice, also Swiss made.
> 
> Somebody posted earlier in this thread that the Soprod A-10 is an ETA design. This is not true. The Soprod A-10 is a modern Seiko design, a good thing, though Swiss made.
> 
> If you need a less expensive hi-beat movement, the Citizen/Miyota 9015 is a good, reliable alternative, though not Swiss.


Thank you for your information. Although I do love the look and idea of day/date it will be more difficult to source as well as to maintain. I want to keep to keep the movement swiss for sure. Would you happen to know the size of the soprod A-10, I am wondering how big the glass caseback would look the bigger the nice imo. I want the watch to have a very nice distinct mechanical visual. To showcase the craftsmanship of the main components.


----------



## markpara

rose gold navy blue dial.


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## markpara

brushed gold black dial Carpathia Ascent 4 of 4


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## MechaMind

I like the blue one... As I said - ( perhaps you could combine it with the steel case and indexes)


----------



## dspt

are you planning a curved dial with curved applied indexes?


----------



## markpara

MechaMind said:


> I like the blue one... As I said - ( perhaps you could combine it with the steel case and indexes)[/QUOTE
> 
> I definitely can but prefer the rose gold option. Perhaps I may change my mind, thank you for your opinion.


----------



## markpara

that would definitely be a interesting feature, although I do see that as being very complicated in regards to fitment of the movement and you would most likely have a bulky case to fit a curved dial depending on how convex it would be along with the hands.


----------



## markpara

Need some opinions. I am debating on using and Automatic Soprod A10 movement or a manual wind date movement. Also as far as my case goes I was wondering what you guys thought about having my crystal/bezel detachable such as your vintage 1940 trench watches?


----------



## dspt

when talking about curved dial I was thinking about something like Rado Coupole Classic or Omega Constellation 'Pie Pan'
I believe this dials were used to prevent watches looking bulky, not vice-versa, as taller crystal looks less bulky then taller case
Not really sure what you mean by "detachable crystal/bezel"


----------



## markpara

dspt said:


> when talking about curved dial I was thinking about something like Rado Coupole Classic or Omega Constellation 'Pie Pan'
> I believe this dials were used to prevent watches looking bulky, not vice-versa, as taller crystal looks less bulky then taller case
> Not really sure what you mean by "detachable crystal/bezel"


I do like the idea of a curved dial to make it pop up more. Definately want to avoid a really bulky case. 
Take a look at this trench watch Rolex scroll down you will see the front of the watch comes off.


----------



## watch-ing

hey markpara, first of: respect for ur skills and that u dare to create something. always nice seeing gifted artists creating stuff, especially stuff that is new and dared. good luck making cash out of it! visual creating artists are so unfair treaten nowadays. i know this, im myself some kind of. 

now my opinion to the watch: i think it has a character, its own recognizeable design. and with this u might have already more than most other manufactors. 
the stork logo i find not good. the pose, its just too... long, unnatural, thin, seems not elegant and not "strong". neither. its a strange mix. a stork is... well its recognizeable and u will remember it as its unusual, but the animal itself is...well... it has no real character, no idea behind it to identify with except bringing babies to parents. noone sees storks as beautiful or strong or whatever. they are neutral or boring for most.

the color choices i like. even though it could have more "character" to it, means... more shades, tones of the colors. 

the casing itself is boring. the crown is boring. the digits design is not my case either, mix of edgy and round. the long sharp thin lines arent my case. the hands design is too thin and will make it just useable at bright daylight. 

well, to conclude: i dont know for who u designed the watch. for older people it will be too dared. for younger people it will be too classic and boring. the design has its own style for sure. yet its a compromise of two worlds, which wont find many fans i guess.


----------



## markpara

watch-ing said:


> hey markpara, first of: respect for ur skills and that u dare to create something. always nice seeing gifted artists creating stuff, especially stuff that is new and dared. good luck making cash out of it! visual creating artists are so unfair treaten nowadays. i know this, im myself some kind of.
> 
> now my opinion to the watch: i think it has a character, its own recognizeable design. and with this u might have already more than most other manufactors.
> the stork logo i find not good. the pose, its just too... long, unnatural, thin, seems not elegant and not "strong". neither. its a strange mix. a stork is... well its recognizeable and u will remember it as its unusual, but the animal itself is...well... it has no real character, no idea behind it to identify with except bringing babies to parents. noone sees storks as beautiful or strong or whatever. they are neutral or boring for most.
> 
> the color choices i like. even though it could have more "character" to it, means... more shades, tones of the colors.
> 
> the casing itself is boring. the crown is boring. the digits design is not my case either, mix of edgy and round. the long sharp thin lines are not my case. the hands design is too thin and will make it just useable at bright daylight.
> 
> well, to conclude: i dont know for who u designed the watch. for older people it will be too dared. for younger people it will be too classic and boring. the design has its own style for sure. yet its a compromise of two worlds, which wont find many fans i guess.


Thank you, as an Artist I have many visions that some may not. I have been a watch enthusiast since I was about 10 and have always had a passion for watches. I always wanted to pursue my own watch brand and after seeing tons of terrible designs that will not last that are succeeding I said why not. The difference between my logo is as you stated something out of the ordinary that many have not seen and therefor it has an upside already. It does not have to be overpowering as lets say a lion or a tiger that is not what I am going for. I am tying the logo in with a sense of peace and class as a stork is rather that. The profile of my logo is that of a stork in flight which I have studied several images and mimicked the anatomy of the stork to make it as proportional as possible. The fact that it is long appeals to me due to the fact that it flows with the type and leads the eye to the Carpathia type. My stork has a background story as it is the Bird that resides near the Carpathian mountains and as a child until now I have always enjoyed how peaceful and beutiful the birds were in my home town of Bialka Tatrzanska (where they are protected and revered by the community). The reason I think they are beautiful is that in person this is a massive bird that when in flight it has a stance of a thin aerodynamic plane. Hey but thats just how I see it. There is a beauty in all creatures that some may not see..

Yes of course I have the skills to design an over the top case but thats not what I intend to do. I want to stick with the clean vintage looks with subtle changes in which I think I have executed rather well. I want a timeless piece that will last not something that will be a fad and disappear in a couple of years. I intend this watch to be worn and enjoyed by enthusiasts not by 1 time buyers. The crown design once again is not final but still stemming back to early trench watch designs which seem to have lasted this long and will continue to do so. The hands will have lume on them so they will be visible at night as will the dial. I intend to reach out to the younger crowd and show homage to the true watchmakers that started it all. With many of my components that will be from manufacturers that have been in the business before I was born.

I do thank you for your feedback, however, as different opinions and perspectives do have to be taken into account when wanting to appeal to a community such as the one on this forum.


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## mkws

"Trench watches" and "1940s" are mutually exclusive terms. A "trench watch" is a watch manufactured between 1912/13/14 and 1918, designed as a military issue watch or marketed as a recommended private purchase for the military personnel. I do get the "detachable bezel/crystal" concept- quite a common thing on cases by Dennison, or the Borgel patent hermetic cases. In a watch like yours, Mark... I don't think it'll work design-wise. A fluted bezel... Somehow I can't see it get along well with your concept. Just use a compressor case. You've created an understated and simple design, and throwing in features from quite a few different decades doesn't seem like a good idea to me.


----------



## markpara

mkws said:


> "Trench watches" and "1940s" are mutually exclusive terms. A "trench watch" is a watch manufactured between 1912/13/14 and 1918, designed as a military issue watch or marketed as a recommended private purchase for the military personnel. I do get the "detachable bezel/crystal" concept- quite a common thing on cases by Dennison, or the Borgel patent hermetic cases. In a watch like yours, Mark... I don't think it'll work design-wise. A fluted bezel... Somehow I can't see it get along well with your concept. Just use a compressor case. You've created an understated and simple design, and throwing in features from quite a few different decades doesn't seem like a good idea to me.


I do stand corrected my fault. At least I learned something new today =-) 
I do agree with you on that option I got carried away haha. Thank you for your input.


----------



## markpara

What do you guys think I should do on the dial just a plain matte color or a sunburst dial. I am going to have raise hour markers numbers and logo. everything else will be printed.


----------



## mkws

Sunburst.


----------



## markpara

mkws said:


> Sunburst.


I think that will fit nicely. Just waiting on manufacturers to get back to me.


----------



## markpara

Hey guys, 

I was wondering if anyone can recommend an excellent designer that works in CAD and would have the skills to produce exact specs necessary for a manufacturer to use.

Thanks !


----------



## dspt

you might try contacting DEPA. I don't know him personally, but from his posts I'm under impression he can do this work


----------



## markpara

dspt said:


> you might try contacting DEPA. I don't know him personally, but from his posts I'm under impression he can do this work


Actually they are horrible I would not recommend them to anyone.
They are liers they claim to be swiss but this is a Chinese company trying to swindle people and lie to them.
they started getting smart with me when I said I would like to visit there site to see how the work.
They said "If you do not know who we are then do your research" lol

No customer service skills they made me laugh.
So watch out guys ! I have proof of emails thats why all there stuff is digital on there site and no actual models of watches.

Signs Times Movements is BS !!


----------



## MechaMind

As you would probably know: designing technical functions is normally a interaction between your formal desires and the manufacturer can do! And at this edge your desires and details - are what the engineer would have to adapt to what the manufacturer is able to produce and what influences the price at the end... so if you want to predefine the manufacturer - you would either let your design to be adapted by them - which may be costly and you always would have to be aware that the design could loose details with which the manufacturer would be able to safe more money ( without changing the price for you)-- or you would install a step in between using a separate engineer to do this but that would be costly due to the interaction and communication efforts.....


----------



## dspt

thank you for the info


----------



## markpara

dspt said:


> thank you for the info


No problem


----------



## markpara

MechaMind said:


> As you would probably know: designing technical functions is normally a interaction between your formal desires and the manufacturer can do! And at this edge your desires and details - are what the engineer would have to adapt to what the manufacturer is able to produce and what influences the price at the end... so if you want to predefine the manufacturer - you would either let your design to be adapted by them - which may be costly and you always would have to be aware that the design could loose details with which the manufacturer would be able to safe more money ( without changing the price for you)-- or you would install a step in between using a separate engineer to do this but that would be costly due to the interaction and communication efforts.....


Good information Mechamind. This is true I am sure there will be changes that need to made due to manu specs.


----------



## MechaMind

I'm not in watchmaking for professional purposes ( I'm just an engineer for precision mechanics), but work a lot with product designers and its always discussion and trade off/ compromise and additional loops when function follows form ( but that is my view of the things I do)

if you would ( and you roughly could do this yourself saving money ) sketch up a working functional module ( Movement + tube (minimum necessary lenght)+ bottom ( minimum necessary thickness) + Bottom screws or screw or pressfit + the opposite thread/ seat with some stock material + gaskets / sealings and the necessary opposite areas + the movement seat with a minimum wall thickness + the necessary cylindric sapces for dial hands and glass + seat and minimum wall thickness. ( for most of the measures and dimensions you can refer on the manufacturers movement spezifications) If you have that modul and the necessary geometric space requirements available, you can put your design around and fill the previously defined areas for dial hands and case - and take this to the engineer and case manufacturer - for discussion and a roughly estimated pricings - what saves you the first two loops and costs for....


----------



## markpara

MechaMind said:


> I'm not in watchmaking for professional purposes ( I'm just an engineer for precision mechanics), but work a lot with product designers and its always discussion and trade off/ compromise and additional loops when function follows form ( but that is my view of the things I do)
> 
> if you would ( and you roughly could do this yourself saving money ) sketch up a working functional module ( Movement + tube (minimum necessary lenght)+ bottom ( minimum necessary thickness) + Bottom screws or screw or pressfit + the opposite thread/ seat with some stock material + gaskets / sealings and the necessary opposite areas + the movement seat with a minimum wall thickness + the necessary cylindric sapces for dial hands and glass + seat and minimum wall thickness. ( for most of the measures and dimensions you can refer on the manufacturers movement spezifications) If you have that modul and the necessary geometric space requirements available, you can put your design around and fill the previously defined areas for dial hands and case - and take this to the engineer and case manufacturer - for discussion and a roughly estimated pricings - what saves you the first two loops and costs for....


Sounds like something I may be able to do. I will be working with a top grade ETA 2824-2 movement for my watches.


----------



## MechaMind

you may also check the diameter of the date ring ... as I remember you want to build a rather big size watch and so the date window will have to be on a small diameter relative to that... 

I'm not sure if you will be able to buy this movement ... first check - then engage into doing ( Swatchgroup does not sell all their movements to everyone who wants ( and their strategy is going to be more restrictive!)


----------



## DEPA

markpara said:


> Actually they are horrible I would not recommend them to anyone.
> They are liers they claim to be swiss but this is a Chinese company trying to swindle people and lie to them.
> they started getting smart with me when I said I would like to visit there site to see how the work.
> They said "If you do not know who we are then do your research" lol
> 
> No customer service skills they made me laugh.
> So watch out guys ! I have proof of emails thats why all there stuff is digital on there site and no actual models of watches.
> 
> Signs Times Movements is BS !!


Well Mark, this is not the gentleman like behaviour which you show here. You came to us and were asking us many questions, which we answered in full and without any lies. We can open any correspondence which we have had so far. Open for anyone who will ask me for. We never claimed that we are swiss, where we aren't. Furthermore I told you that all Swiss parts and movements is possible but it might be out of your budget. As I can see, this is your first project and it is our duty to show you alternatives and options. We can source all parts in Switzerland and let you pay for it if you like. What we don't do is producing parts by ourselves. So your claim is anything but the reality. And to give you just a small hint, don't be so easy with words like swindle or BS. It might backfire. You are still someone who is dependent on the goodwill of other members. You have no History but you are trying to piss on a company with History in this watchmaking business. The quote you were giving was 100% from me. Made after an insulting question. I asked you politely to go to visit the german companies which you were speaking of. We are serious operations with own movement manufactuing in Switzerland. So try to cheat on others. Not on us. 
Any correspondence with this person is open up for review anytime for anyone asking. Write me on [email protected]


----------



## sittingox

I know DEPA personally, they are signed under and handle many projects production for well known micobrands namely "Stuckx" " Motokoure" and "Melbourne" there is net nowadays, it is free to check and gather info. Solely, they manufacture what they promise, no surprise. Clean, clear and transparent!


----------



## markpara

DEPA said:


> Well Mark, this is not the gentleman like behaviour which you show here. You came to us and were asking us many questions, which we answered in full and without any lies. We can open any correspondence which we have had so far. Open for anyone who will ask me for. We never claimed that we are swiss, where we aren't. Furthermore I told you that all Swiss parts and movements is possible but it might be out of your budget. As I can see, this is your first project and it is our duty to show you alternatives and options. We can source all parts in Switzerland and let you pay for it if you like. What we don't do is producing parts by ourselves. So your claim is anything but the reality. And to give you just a small hint, don't be so easy with words like swindle or BS. It might backfire. You are still someone who is dependent on the goodwill of other members. You have no History but you are trying to piss on a company with History in this watchmaking business. The quote you were giving was 100% from me. Made after an insulting question. I asked you politely to go to visit the german companies which you were speaking of. We are serious operations with own movement manufactuing in Switzerland. So try to cheat on others. Not on us.
> Any correspondence with this person is open up for review anytime for anyone asking. Write me on [email protected]


Clearly, there are some assumptions being made on both ends here, but let me say that your correspondence with me was anything but polite. The questions I asked of you were sincere, honest questions with no intention of offending yet you were quick to be dismissive and rude. No company with decent customer service skills would jump to such rejecting responses right away. A simple explanation of the fact that you do not provide the services I am looking for would have sufficed. I'm not sure what "cheating" you think I am attempting, I was simply trying to get some pricing and information on the type of product I am looking for. In my past, when people are so quick to become offended over basic inquiry, it leads me to believe they have something to hide. I apologize if I jumped to a conclusion too soon, but that was my interpretation of the situation.


----------



## Nis-chik

Oh yes!! Get me the Popcorn!! Just for the fun, I contacted DEPA and asked him to send me the entire correspondence and I must admit that he did not do anything wrong. What happened here was, that a newcomer who claims to be a graphic artist, just managed to show some rough dial sketches so far, tried to teach DEPA in a very arrogant way how to make watches and how better not. DEPA showed him the door and now he is trying to piss on him. Bad behaviour!!! If DEPA says that you cannot use different calibres for one single case, then you should believe him. Rather than teaching him that it does. I know that the stem position is very crucial on each case construction and some very limited number of movements are interchangeable. And other point is that you questioned their competence by asking whether they will repair watches in aftersales if they are defective and what guarantees they could give you that they would. Excuse me but this is no legit question. You are dealing with an European company. And in Europe every company is obliged by law to give you 2 years of warranty. If you ask this question, what kind of guarantees do you expect him to give you? In my opinion Markpara just got pissed because he was shown the door and now trying to pay back. This is cheap and childish behaviour. We here on the forum are a crowd which has the common passion for watches. We do not like to read such negativity driven by anger and arrogance and ignorance. Maybe you will learn it. If not you will be having a hard time here



markpara said:


> Actually they are horrible I would not recommend them to anyone.
> They are liers they claim to be swiss but this is a Chinese company trying to swindle people and lie to them.
> they started getting smart with me when I said I would like to visit there site to see how the work.
> They said "If you do not know who we are then do your research" lol
> 
> No customer service skills they made me laugh.
> So watch out guys ! I have proof of emails thats why all there stuff is digital on there site and no actual models of watches.
> 
> Signs Times Movements is BS !!


----------



## markpara

MechaMind said:


> you may also check the diameter of the date ring ... as I remember you want to build a rather big size watch and so the date window will have to be on a small diameter relative to that...
> 
> I'm not sure if you will be able to buy this movement ... first check - then engage into doing ( Swatchgroup does not sell all their movements to everyone who wants ( and their strategy is going to be more restrictive!)


I am in contact with a distributor at the moment and will be able to source them. =)

Yes I definitely will have to check the size of the date window and make sure it is positioned and sized correctly. Thank you


----------



## MechaMind

If you really decide for series production be sure to think about to insure that they are able to deliver the movements nut just now but for at least 3 years after your production ends so you can give warranty and have access to spare movements


----------



## DEPA

I accept your Apologies. Next time when you decide to try to kill someones reputation, make sure that you don't try that in his backyard.



markpara said:


> Clearly, there are some assumptions being made on both ends here, but let me say that your correspondence with me was anything but polite. The questions I asked of you were sincere, honest questions with no intention of offending yet you were quick to be dismissive and rude. No company with decent customer service skills would jump to such rejecting responses right away. A simple explanation of the fact that you do not provide the services I am looking for would have sufficed. I'm not sure what "cheating" you think I am attempting, I was simply trying to get some pricing and information on the type of product I am looking for. In my past, when people are so quick to become offended over basic inquiry, it leads me to believe they have something to hide. I apologize if I jumped to a conclusion too soon, but that was my interpretation of the situation.


----------



## sittingox

Just my curiosity, Markpara have you made a marketing plan when you start to manufacture Carpathias? What about introduction? Sales channel? Distribution? Hope you prepared all. I assume you have already had a potantial demanders right now.


----------



## Nis-chik

What for all that? He has made already a dial design and knows the dimensions and position of the calendar. Isn't that enough to be a watchmaker?



sittingox said:


> Just my curiosity, Markpara have you made a marketing plan when you start to manufacture Carpathias? What about introduction? Sales channel? Distribution? Hope you prepared all. I assume you have already had a potantial demanders right now.


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## MechaMind

I think that would be enough - for hobbyist level - the other circumstances I would think are necessary as soon as the idea of a business grows. I would feel he is in the " get busy with an idea and think about a possible scenario" state,- not yet an economic basement, finance plan or business plan , not yet a decision how to go - just the idea. To go inito business with just an idea would be a bit more than risky.But to play with the scenario "what would result if I'd do..." is a good thing....


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## markpara

sittingox said:


> Just my curiosity, Markpara have you made a marketing plan when you start to manufacture Carpathias? What about introduction? Sales channel? Distribution? Hope you prepared all. I assume you have already had a potantial demanders right now.


Yes I have thought of all of the aforementioned. I am still in my beginning stages taking one step at a time and being cautious. Once I have everything sourced and put together properly I can continue with further steps.


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## markpara

MechaMind said:


> I think that would be enough - for hobbyist level - the other circumstances I would think are necessary as soon as the idea of a business grows. I would feel he is in the " get busy with an idea and think about a possible scenario" state,- not yet an economic basement, finance plan or business plan , not yet a decision how to go - just the idea. To go inito business with just an idea would be a bit more than risky.But to play with the scenario "what would result if I'd do..." is a good thing....


Yes exactly if others read my posts from the beginning they would know that I am still in the beginning stages. Although I have been working on this everyday since December and I do have a rough business plan as I am very passionate about my idea and confident that I can succeed.

Thanks @ MechaMind


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## no-time

So a year onwards, what did you achieve?


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## ajsthe3

no-time said:


> So a year onwards, what did you achieve?


 https://www.carpathiawatches.com

Also, just wanna say how cool it is to come into this super late and see a brand go from essentially a napkin drawing to production.


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## markpara

Hello,

It has been over a year now and I have made a lot of progress with my brand. Though not easy it has been a rewarding experience.|>

- I went to switzerland to meet with one of my main manufacturers, drove through La Chaux-de-Fonds to visit sellita and get a quote on movements but I chose Eta 2824 -2 Top grade movements through a different supplier. That trip alone was my inspirational journey to the heart of watchmaking and helped me continue my endeavor. Drove from Poland to Slovakia,Czech,Austria,Germany,France and Belgium. 
- From there I went through trial and error with manufacturers that would be making my boxes etc. 
- I acquired a watchmakers bench made in Chicago a J.H. Rosenberg. I met several important people one being a retired watchmaker who has been a great help. I was able to assemble my first 4 prototypes.
- I built a trade show display for my watches myself.
- Went to my first small watch event as a member of the NAWCC. 
- Created my website and business cards. 
- Trademarked my company.
- I am currently in the process of making my video for my website and kickstarter campaign which will be launching this year hopefully in August.

www.carpathiawatches.com
@carpathiawatches on instagram and facebook.



no-time said:


> So a year onwards, what did you achieve?


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## markpara

Thank you for the kind words. It is rewarding seeing all of the hard work paying off. I have much respect for those that are in the same boat and are doing all of the work to try to make their watches.



ajsthe3 said:


> https://www.carpathiawatches.com
> 
> Also, just wanna say how cool it is to come into this super late and see a brand go from essentially a napkin drawing to production.


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## DrFrancky

Dont use metalforming stickers for your logo, it looks cheap. Try some other method.


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