# Buying Citizen watches on Yahoo! Japan Auction (via Buyee and such)



## CitizenPromaster

So I bought my first Citizen on Yahoo! Japan Auction via Buyee. It's a rather strange market...

Let's discuss our experiences here. I'll chip in another time, but don't let that stop you.


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## CitizenPromaster

So my first observation: it seems like the local bidders don't like the Buyout option, even when the price is reasonable. Of course Buyout defeats the purpose of an auction, but I just bought a Citizen (to be revealed when I actually receive it) that was reasonably priced, and this model went for considerably more the last time people were allowed to bid on one starting at 1000 yen.

And certain terms in the auction title of course determine the findability and the views/bids. I bought another watch yesterday (for the purpose of combined shipping) for 4,100 yen, and today an identical watch - also in decent condition, but with less bracelet links, so less value - that had the movement number in the title, went for 8100 yen! Maybe I just got lucky?

Anyway, the 'famous' Citizens are not that cheap at all, as people in other forums have noticed when discussing Seiko etc, but you can score rare and amazing watches if you are willing to pay. So it is both a blessing and a curse as people have often said on WUS.


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## Ziptie

One thing that I have noticed is that people do not tend to wait until the last minute to bid. If there’s no bids coming up to the end, there’s likely nobody else lurking. I suspect part of the reason is those auctions automatically extend if there’s bidding in the last few minutes, so sniping isn’t as likely to net you a surprise win. 

I’ve got a few bargains there, and there’s plenty that sell for absolutely average prices. As with all auctions, it pays to be persistent.


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## jvspin

I have been really happy with zenmarket as my proxy. I wonder how it compares to buyee.

1) 300yen fee if you win an auction.
2) Free storage for 120 days (45 days pre-covid) 50yen fee (each item)/day thereafter.
3) Must deposit funds into zenmarket account in order to bid.
4) 20,000yen credit.

Typical shipping charges using EMS:
1 watch = $2000 yen
10 watches = $3000 yen

Pre-covid shipping was incredibly fast. Typically 5 days or less from when I hit the "pack items" button to arriving on my doorstep. Granted, I'm sure being near SFO international airport helps. Also, no extra duty or import fees.

Post -covid is incredibly slow. EMS to the US has been cancelled since April. Still waiting on my first shippment via Ground post. Expect it's going to take up to 3 months.


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## jvspin

Ziptie said:


> One thing that I have noticed is that people do not tend to wait until the last minute to bid. If there's no bids coming up to the end, there's likely nobody else lurking. I suspect part of the reason is those auctions automatically extend if there's bidding in the last few minutes, so sniping isn't as likely to net you a surprise win.
> 
> I've got a few bargains there, and there's plenty that sell for absolutely average prices. As with all auctions, it pays to be persistent.


Sniping isn't as helpful with the automatic extension but I still think it's the way to go.

II primarily buy Citizen watches and Yokogawa test equipment. The selection is incredible compared to the US. Many sellers are asking average prices but I've found some great deals. The best were the result of poor photos or descriptions or the lack of understanding how the watch works (eg, Chronomaster, E510, etc.) so they list it as junk. I've only had a few that actually had a problem. In general, I find the watches in better condition than described.


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## Gprog

Buyee has been great for me. Very rarely do I end up in a bidding war at the last moment. The snipe feature is honestly how I’ve made 90% of my purchases on there. The pros are that I don’t have to preload funds and due to Covid, they have unlimited storage time for your items at their warehouse. I’ve never had any shipping issues with EMS and they’re super fast. The cons are that EMS no longer ships to the states for the time being so I do shell out for DHL. They’re as fast as EMS, usually a day or two faster on average in my experience.


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## jvspin

Gprog said:


> Buyee has been great for me. Very rarely do I end up in a bidding war at the last moment. The snipe feature is honestly how I've made 90% of my purchases on there. The pros are that I don't have to preload funds and due to Covid, they have unlimited storage time for your items at their warehouse. I've never had any shipping issues with EMS and they're super fast. The cons are that EMS no longer ships to the states for the time being so I do shell out for DHL. They're as fast as EMS, usually a day or two faster on average in my experience.


How does DHL compare to EMS regarding cost? Also, what is the service charge with Buyee?


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## Ziptie

Buyee charges about the same, but everything is PayPal, so they just bill you when you win an auction or request shipping. Super easy.

DHL costs maybe $10more than EMS did, and takes about the same amount of time. Which is to say, usually 4 to 5 days depending, to Seattle.


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## jvspin

Do you ever have to pay import duty fees with DHL?


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## TheStuntDummy

jvspin said:


> Do you ever have to pay import duty fees with DHL?


I would like to know this as well. Normally you don't pay import fees unless the watch is over 800, right?

Also, what is the point of storage? Is transfer to shipping arranged or that something the buyer as to do on their end?


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## Ziptie

I have never payed import duties, But I’ve also never bought a watch for more than $500. 

Storage is useful if you’re buying more than one item and want to combine shipping, which becomes much more cost-effective.

Buyee now offers “direct shipping” on some items, though I have not tried that.


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## CitizenPromaster

jvspin said:


> I have been really happy with zenmarket as my proxy. I wonder how it compares to buyee.
> 
> 1) 300yen fee if you win an auction.
> 2) Free storage for 120 days (45 days pre-covid) 50yen fee (each item)/day thereafter.
> 3) Must deposit funds into zenmarket account in order to bid.
> 4) 20,000yen credit.
> 
> Typical shipping charges using EMS:
> 1 watch = $2000 yen
> 10 watches = $3000 yen
> 
> Pre-covid shipping was incredibly fast. Typically 5 days or less from when I hit the "pack items" button to arriving on my doorstep. Granted, I'm sure being near SFO international airport helps. Also, no extra duty or import fees.
> 
> Post -covid is incredibly slow. EMS to the US has been cancelled since April. Still waiting on my first shippment via Ground post. Expect it's going to take up to 3 months.


Buyee is as follows:
1) Payment fee 200 yen, Buyee service fee 300 yen (so always 500 yen)
+ optional domestic delivery plan as follows: Lite plan (0 yen), Inspection only (300 yen), Insured delivery only (500 yen), Inspection + insured delivery (500 yen)
Then you pay the domestic shipping fee from seller to Buyee warehouse, for me it was 444 yen en 907 yen this time.
2) Free storage for 30 days, then 100 yen per day up to 10 kg, 200 upto 20 kg, 300 upto 30 kg.
3) Creditcard or Paypal, and the latter works pretty good. I don't have a credit card (not many Dutch people do) and I can use Paypal by linking my bank account or wiring money to my Paypal balance.
4) No credit as far as I know, but you pay after the winning bid, and for some reason Paypal refused the second payment, then Buyee doesn't allow you to place new bids until the payment is done, but I still won the auction and I fixed the Paypal issue so I could make the payment and I could immediately place bids again.

Package consolidation is 500 yen for 2 packages and 1000 yen for 3 or more packages and then 1000 yen for a consecutive consolidation if you end up buying more before it is shipped.

International shipping to the Netherlands is 2,200 yen for EMS up to 30 kg (2 days), for airmail up to 2 kg it's only 1,370 yen (6 days). DHL for me is 4,149 yen.

So now I have two watches in their warehouse, together less than 1 kg. I don't plan on buying any more watches, I shouldn't anyway, so I'm gonna decide today how to ship them...


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## CitizenPromaster

Someone should really buy this JDM Duratect titanium Skyhawk though, if it stays at 25,000 yen: 【CITIZEN】シチズン プロマスター U600-T011110... - ヤフオク!


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## Gprog

@TheStuntDummy and @jvspin , @Ziptie is right. I've never paid import duties, but the most I've paid is $600. And storage is great for combining shipments. They do a great job of packing, even if you don't pay for the extra protective packaging. It's been 4 or 5 days to here on the East coast with DHL.


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## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> Buyee is as follows:
> 1) Payment fee 200 yen, Buyee service fee 300 yen (so always 500 yen)
> + optional domestic delivery plan as follows: Lite plan (0 yen), Inspection only (300 yen), Insured delivery only (500 yen), Inspection + insured delivery (500 yen)
> Then you pay the domestic shipping fee from seller to Buyee warehouse, for me it was 444 yen en 907 yen this time.
> 2) Free storage for 30 days, then 100 yen per day up to 10 kg, 200 upto 20 kg, 300 upto 30 kg.
> 3) Creditcard or Paypal, and the latter works pretty good. I don't have a credit card (not many Dutch people do) and I can use Paypal by linking my bank account or wiring money to my Paypal balance.
> 4) No credit as far as I know, but you pay after the winning bid, and for some reason Paypal refused the second payment, then Buyee doesn't allow you to place new bids until the payment is done, but I still won the auction and I fixed the Paypal issue so I could make the payment and I could immediately place bids again.
> 
> Package consolidation is 500 yen for 2 packages and 1000 yen for 3 or more packages and then 1000 yen for a consecutive consolidation if you end up buying more before it is shipped.
> 
> International shipping to the Netherlands is 2,200 yen for EMS up to 30 kg (2 days), for airmail up to 2 kg it's only 1,370 yen (6 days). DHL for me is 4,149 yen.
> 
> So now I have two watches in their warehouse, together less than 1 kg. I don't plan on buying any more watches, I shouldn't anyway, so I'm gonna decide today how to ship them...


The only additional charges with zenmarket (other than shipping and the 300 yen commission) is the credit card fee of 3.5% to fund your account. To make sure I get the best rates, I use a credit card that doesn't charge any foreign transaction fees and keep all transactions in yen. You can also use PAYPAL to fund your account but I think their exchange rate is higher than the the going rate.

There are no package consolidation fees. There is a 1000 yen fee to add more items after a shipment has been packaged. Packaging is well done and all items are indivdually bubble wrapped and labelled with the zenmarket auction ID.

So, the total cost of my watch with zenmarket is the following:
(yen watch + yen 300 + yen local shipping + yen shipping to US) x 3.5% x exchange rate = Total cost in $
Note, some business sellers charge a 10% VAT (will be listed on the auction)

I think the total cost with zenmarket is less than Buyee due to Paypal exchange rates and the additional fees but I'm not sure.

The last time I tried to use DHL they said they couldn't do it to the US because of the import forms required. May have been because of the total cost of items.

I have made purchases greater than $800, both individual and total shipment, and never been charged import fees using EMS Japan which goes into the US Postal Service.


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## CitizenPromaster

Judging by your info, Buyee definitely seems more expensive than zenmarket, but I never bothered to look for alternatives to Buyee and it was the only one I'd heard of. But I don't plan on making this a regular thing, though I might make an exception if a watch is really cheap. I'd like to get my hands on the first Citizen Attesa that was discussed in the Titanium thread recently, but it could be many months before one comes up for sale, and even if it does the question is if I will notice. I scored my kind of grail watch though (and a bonus watch), so hopefully that will scratch my JDM itch for a while. The two packages are being consolidated now, hopefully I can have it shipped tomorrow, and with any luck it will be with me end of next week. It is kind of surreal that I will have it in my hands/on my wrist!

There is also this proxy: FROM JAPAN
And this one: Noppin, Japan Shopping Service - Our Fees for Auction Service


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## CitizenPromaster

By the way, Buyee uses their own exchange rate (which is probably good for them) and you pay them through Paypal in your own currency, in my case EUR, so Paypal can't profit from the exchange rate, and there is also no Paypal fee because it is an internet shopping purchase. So as far as I'm aware I'm not paying Paypal any fees at all, not directly anyway, because I think the 200 yen Payment Fee is probably because of the fee that Paypal charges Buyee.


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## Ziptie

I’m pretty clear that ordering 15 year discontinued JDM watches is an extravagance, so as long as the charges are moderate overall, I’m not looking to further optimize. 

I do tend to take them into account when I’m flipping a watch though, maybe adding $25 above what I paid to get a sense of what I should charge.


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## jvspin

Ziptie said:


> I'm pretty clear that ordering 15 year discontinued JDM watches is an extravagance, so as long as the charges are moderate overall, I'm not looking to further optimize.
> 
> I do tend to take them into account when I'm flipping a watch though, maybe adding $25 above what I paid to get a sense of what I should charge.


The one thing I don't like about zenmarket is you can only bid up to the amount in your account + 20,000yen. So if I'm interested in a more expensive item I must deposit the funds first. If I don't win, the money is left in my account to be frittered away bit by bit.

If the Buyee fees aren't much more I might switch. Especially since I'm planning to slow down.


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## CitizenPromaster

Well my first package will be shipped today. Total shipping costs came to:
Package 1 domestic shipping: 444 yen
Package 2: domestic shipping: 907 yen
Package consolidation: 500 yen
International shipping EMS: 3,200 yen all of a sudden
Total: 5,051 yen = 42,09 EUR = 120 yen/EUR while the theoretical mid-market exchange rate is 125 yen/EUR, so 120 yen/EUR seems fine.

42 EUR shipping costs on top of what I spent is acceptable, but if I get hit with our Dutch 21% VAT over the purchase PLUS international shipping costs (which is insane), then that will be a disappointment,
There is zero chance I would find my grail watch in The Netherlands, especially for this price, even including VAT, but it would feel like less of a 'victory', and it would probably be my last Yahoo Auction purchase. So let's hope for the Japanese economy that I don't have to pay VAT!

By the way, import duties for watches are supposedly only 0,80 EUR per watch, but on top of the 21% VAT the Dutch post service will charge you 13 EUR or 17,50 EUR (EMS) for dealing with customs, which is just theft. So realistically I'm looking at about 30% extra cost at the border, which is certainly something to factor in when bidding.


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## jvspin

Thanks for the breakdown. Here's hoping you don't have to pay VAT! Exchange rate looks fine.


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## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> Someone should really buy this JDM Duratect titanium Skyhawk though, if it stays at 25,000 yen: 【CITIZEN】シチズン プロマスター U600-T011110... - ヤフオク!


Nobody bid on this! Again I get the feeling Japanese buyers boycott auctions that don't start at 1 or 1000 yen. There was also a limited edition F900 in good used condition that cost 240,000 yen when new and could now be had for 99,000 yen, but nobody bid on it. There are also several unused watches with MSRP of 120,000 yen, offered for 50,000 yen, and nobody is buying them! What is happening here? Are these models just unloved or are people out of money?


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## Ziptie

No insight, but a side question. Does anyone know of a similar service for Taiwan? There’s a shop having a 25% off sale on Citizen...


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## CitizenPromaster

Ziptie said:


> No insight, but a side question. Does anyone know of a similar service for Taiwan? There's a shop having a 25% off sale on Citizen...


I googled "Taiwan proxy shopping" and it lists a bunch, is that cheating?


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## Ziptie

Ah, maybe proxy is the magic word. I was having no luck with other terms like shipping and forwarding.


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## CitizenPromaster

Let us know how it works out. I actually sold a watch a few minutes ago (since I bought a watch in Japan), it was my 'spare' new in box AS4050-51E, the Pilot Chrono. I bought my original AS4050-51E - my first 'expensive' watch - when I was 23, and this fella was 19 and he had a watch collection, but this was also his first 'expensive' watch. You should have seen the look on his face! He was so happy with it, especially at 2/3rd of MSRP. I felt like Santa Claus! 😁


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## Ziptie

Way to pay it forward!


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## hi_bri

I use Jauce.com. Even though they are more expensive, the service is excellent. They respond quickly to questions and their packaging/bubble wrapping is the best in the biz.

I've had a package that was looted mid-transit and received an empty box and the insurance claim and refund was easily sorted out.

Currently since EMS is down they've been shipping via DHL and finally I get hit by customs fees. I'll going to try to send a package under $800 via DHL and see if it goes though.

I know there are cheaper options but when I'm buying with several layers to the final product, it's good to have a service where they respond quickly, communicate in good English, package fragile items well and are easy to deal with.

-Brian


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## CitizenPromaster

My package is lost in EMS limbo for the moment. Stuck at "Dispatch from outward office of exchange" since saturday, it is now tuesday. EMS 2 days? Fuggedaboutit. If it takes longer so be it, but not getting an update is really starting to annoy me.


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## CitizenPromaster

hi_bri said:


> I use Jauce.com. Even though they are more expensive, the service is excellent. They respond quickly to questions and their packaging/bubble wrapping is the best in the biz.
> 
> I've had a package that was looted mid-transit and received an empty box and the insurance claim and refund was easily sorted out.
> 
> Currently since EMS is down they've been shipping via DHL and finally I get hit by customs fees. I'll going to try to send a package under $800 via DHL and see if it goes though.
> 
> I know there are cheaper options but when I'm buying with several layers to the final product, it's good to have a service where they respond quickly, communicate in good English, package fragile items well and are easy to deal with.
> 
> -Brian


Here are all the fees for Jauce. https://www.jauce.com/japan_auction_detail
I don't like the 400 yen + 8% commission, and needing a deposit is one thing, but 40 yen + 3,9% fee on the deposit amount? I guess service comes at a price.


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## hi_bri

CitizenPromaster said:


> Here are all the fees for Jauce. Services & Charges
> I don't like the 400 yen + 8% commission, and needing a deposit is one thing, but 40 yen + 3,9% fee on the deposit amount? I guess service comes at a price.


Yes it does indeed cost more and service does come at a price. One area where they tend to be pretty fair is shipping within Japan to the auction house. Sometime you can be fleeced on this if the shipping fee within Japan is not stated. Their internal Japan transit prices seem to be very reasonable. I tend to ship a combination of items rather than one purchase at a time. Overall I'm quite happy with their service and ability to hold items until you ship them. Usually it's 60d before storage fees but with COVID-19 they are holding items all the way to Dec 31.

-Brian


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## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> My package is lost in EMS limbo for the moment. Stuck at "Dispatch from outward office of exchange" since saturday, it is now tuesday. EMS 2 days? Fuggedaboutit. If it takes longer so be it, but not getting an update is really starting to annoy me.


My watch has finally emerged from limbo and it has even gone through customs and has been sent onwards so with any luck it will be in my hands in the next few days.

I'm tempted to bid on more stuff...


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## CitizenPromaster

So my package and two watches have arrived. I did get hit with 21% VAT, but even if I include the fees and VAT (and exclude shipping costs) my grail watch was still a little cheaper than the highest bid on the last example that was offered and sold on Yahoo, while that one had far too little bracelet links for my wrist. This one is exactly the right size. So all in all a good experience buying from Japan through Buyee. Shipping took 5 days with EMS. If you get lucky with an auction, it is definitely worth the effort.

From now on I think I'm just gonna bid on junk watches that are nice to collect, since I don't need any more watches to actually wear, and some models are nice to have as historic Citizen pieces.


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## CitizenPromaster

This collector's item sold as junk went from 3000 yen to almost 15,000 yen in the last hour, so there is definitely last 'minute' bidding on desirable pieces.


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## jvspin

You can check out past auction results at the link below to see what things typically sell for.


ヤフオク! - 条件指定


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## CitizenPromaster

Two close to unused examples of the recently released AS7145-69L got pretty much the same number of bids and sold for pretty much the same amount, 51,000 yen and 52,000 yen, while the MSRP is 115,000 yen excluding tax and 126,500 yen including tax. I've been noticing on most auctions of "unused" (stock items) Citizens, people usually don't bid more than 40% of MSRP. Which means you can get a really good deal on watches in stock or slightly used watches. I don't think the risk will be much higher than with the Japanese export dealers, so worth considering.


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## CitizenPromaster

1300m diver just popped up: 80s CTIZEN Professional DIVER 1300M DVA55-003... - ヤフオク!


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## CitizenPromaster

Nice PMD56-2973 up for grabs: シチズン プロマスター CITIZEN PROMASTER PMD56... - ヤフオク!


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## CitizenPromaster

Interesting Promaster Tough Yellow Stone National Park edition: シチズン プロマスター エコドライブ タフシリー... - ヤフオク!
And another oddity, New York Yankees Citizen: シチズンプロマスターワールドタイム松井秀樹モ... - ヤフオク!


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## CitizenPromaster

Oh man, this red banner is pretty addictive. My saving grace is that I put a cap on what I spend on a single watch. This one is pushing it though, if I include shipping and VAT...


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## CitizenPromaster

For you tool watch lovers, never seen this before: 【超希少モデル】シチズン プロマスター チタン... - ヤフオク!










Edit: It sold for 12,500 yen after 22 bids.


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## CitizenPromaster

My second Yahoo Auction purchase will be shipped soon. As you could read in this thread, I recently bought my "grail watch", but another example came up for sale this week, in seemingly slightly better condition, WITH original box and a surplus of bracelet links.










I just had to buy it, and though there was a small bidding war at the end of the auction, I only paid slightly more than for the previous one.

If it is indeed in better shape, I might sell the other one, or I will just be decadent and keep the first one as a beater. 😁


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## CitizenPromaster

On a side note, Japan Pre-owned Vintage - Japanese Used Watches Seiko, Citizen, Swiss Watches Rolex, Omega has some really nice watches in stock, literally thousands, but they charge about two or three times what you can expect to pay on Yahoo Japan Auction for a similar offering.

They have a watch that I haven't seen in good condition (with enough bracelet links) on Yahoo yet, but they are asking about 3x what I think it will cost me on Yahoo, so I will wait patiently.


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## CitizenPromaster

My second package has arrived. It took a little longer because of the weekend in between, but still 'only' a week. I am pretty pleased with the whole process of buying from Japan, despite getting slapped with 21% VAT for importing 15 year old watches. I can't really say anything bad about Buyee, they do as promised, and paying through Paypal is really easy, and in my case (no creditcard, but linked bank account) there is no Paypal payment fee on top of the Buyee payment fee.


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## bloody watches

CitizenPromaster said:


> On a side note, Japan Pre-owned Vintage - Japanese Used Watches Seiko, Citizen, Swiss Watches Rolex, Omega has some really nice watches in stock, literally thousands, but they charge about two or three times what you can expect to pay on Yahoo Japan Auction for a similar offering.
> 
> They have a watch that I haven't seen in good condition (with enough bracelet links) on Yahoo yet, but they are asking about 3x what I think it will cost me on Yahoo, so I will wait patiently.


Twice I have purchased from Japan Pre-owned Vintage only to be let down both time with an email stating "this watch is out of stock" and them within days the watch re-appears at a higher price 
I don't trust them


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## CitizenPromaster

bloody watches said:


> Twice I have purchased from Japan Pre-owned Vintage only to be let down both time with an email stating "this watch is out of stock" and them within days the watch re-appears at a higher price
> I don't trust them


That does seem highly suspect, and it also explains why their watches are so overpriced! everytime someone shows interest, they bump the price lol


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## sticky

CitizenPromaster said:


> That does seem highly suspect, and it also explains why their watches are so overpriced! everytime someone shows interest, they bump the price lol


Had a similar thing happen to me with a UK grey market seller. It went on sale and within hours they'd all been bought by eBay customers (fancy that). The watch did reappear on the site shortly after and the price was slightly higher, still cheaper than the AD so I bought it - fool. Once they had my money they clearly set about sourcing the watch and feeding me with all sorts of silly reasons why the watch hadn't been dispatched.


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## aafanatic

Just dipped my toe in the Buyee waters;-) My first purchase I did not think of whether there were enough links on the bracelet...Oopps! So, with some help from a better member (Thread starter) I am "sniping" another of the same with plenty of links. If I win I will consolidate and ship to the USA. Then, as CitizenPromaster has stated: "sell one or keep the lesser as a beater" Though, I have never been accused of "watch beating". I will report back with developments.


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## bloody watches

sticky said:


> Had a similar thing happen to me with a UK grey market seller. It went on sale and within hours they'd all been bought by eBay customers (fancy that). The watch did reappear on the site shortly after and the price was slightly higher, still cheaper than the AD so I bought it - fool. Once they had my money they clearly set about sourcing the watch and feeding me with all sorts of silly reasons why the watch hadn't been dispatched.


Yep you guys have got the set up correct - the pray on the unsuspecting. I was going top ask them lots of questions about a particular watch and then thought stuff them and I just don't go to that site any more.


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## aafanatic

Here's the one I bought that doesn't have enough links (4 on one side and 5 on the other. Oopps!)










Still waiting for this one to arrive at Tenso to be consolidated and shipped ;-) (Plenty of links)


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## Mr. James Duffy

aafanatic said:


> Still waiting for this one to arrive at Tenso to be consolidated and shipped ;-)


Yeah, package consolidation is great but it has also bitten me in the butt when I don't opt for insurance and inspection then forget to pay attention to the weight of each individual package. That is where paying for inspection pays off because the items can be repacked into a smaller box or envelope.

In the past 3 years, I have bought more watches through proxy buyers (mostly Zenmarket and Buyee) than from other stores and online retailers. I understand the hesitance but after a few positive experiences and getting a grasp on what fees I am liable for, I became comfortable (maybe too comfortable) with using proxy buying services. The recent inclusion of Mercari has been great because it is another marketplace where I do not need to bid and then wait for an auction to end. Initially, I did not want to tell anyone about proxy buying services to limit the competition for uncommon watches but I have since changed my stance to prevent myself from buying too many watches!


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## CitizenPromaster

Mr. James Duffy said:


> Initially, I did not want to tell anyone about proxy buying services to limit the competition for uncommon watches but I have since changed my stance to prevent myself from buying too many watches!


I get the sentiment, I would have been really mad if I had competition from the forum on that second PMP56-2933 that I bought, but I think our interests are varied enough so that we are unlikely to go after the same watches. And there are many watches that don't get any interest at all from the Japanese, which many of us would enjoy at those reasonable prices (before shipping and VAT anyway).


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## Mr. James Duffy

CitizenPromaster said:


> I get the sentiment, I would have been really mad if I had competition from the forum on that second PMP56-2933 that I bought, but I think our interests are varied enough so that we are unlikely to go after the same watches. And there are many watches that don't get any interest at all from the Japanese, which many of us would enjoy at those reasonable prices (before shipping and VAT anyway).


I have found that searching with Japanese Kanji, シチズン for Citizen, can sometimes yield better search results or the odd one that does not include a model or reference number. Combine that with the characters for deadstock デッド and one can find some real NOS gems in Japan.


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## CitizenPromaster

I think I got kind of lucky with my two PMP's. I just checked if the sellers had any other Citizen watches, and they had none at all, just lots of random stuff that you would expect from a pawn shop. So I was lucky in the sense that two people happened to bring their PMP's to these two shops, which I don't think will happen again any time soon. Not that I need a third one though...


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## aafanatic

This just in: PMV65-2241 Titanium Skyhawk


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## CitizenPromaster

Anyone else besides aafanatic taken the plunge? He's gotten some great deals!

I myself have refrained from buying more stuff, but I love scanning the new offerings daily. It is a cool Citizen museum if nothing else!


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## Ziptie

You know I’ve bought many that way, though I’ve flipped most of them. Hard to find models with a bracelet large enough for me. 

Still the best place to find deals on the CB017x family though, and that’s almost all I wear anymore.


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## CitizenPromaster

Mr. James Duffy said:


> Combine that with the characters for deadstock デッド and one can find some real NOS gems in Japan.


It is indeed amazing the kind of watches that turn up new old stock. Here is a random selection from today.
Sure, not all of them are bargains, but the fact that they are for sale at all is awesome.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Here is an OG Yahoo Auction buyer:


atlcal said:


> So a little more than 2 years ago, I started my Eco-Drive obsession with my first one, a Blue Angels A-T model that fit my life perfectly. Ambient light kept it charged, sync'd every night so always accurate, stopwatch feature for occasional timing needs, and looked pretty good too. Started picking up gently worn watches on forums and eBay, and then discovered the universe of Yahoo Auctions in Japan. Picked up all kinds of different models, specifically Exceed and Attesa models, and 2 years later, I've got 30+ Eco-Drives between myself and what I added to my wife's jewelry box. While she does rotate through her watches pretty well, I found myself rotating between the same few watches and ignoring the rest. Gifted some watches to family, sold some to friends/coworkers, and sold off the rest.
> 
> So now I'm down to two Exceed HAQ, a Signature Grand Complication, a Campanola, a beater dive watch for the beach, and the Blue Angels watch that kicked the whole collection off. I had a lot of fun putting my collection together, but I couldn't see the point of hanging on to all these great watches that I never wore. Fewer watches means more wrist time for the ones I have, and I think I'm at the point now where I'd rather have a single watch box full of watches I love, than a cabinet full of watches I'm indifferent about.
> 
> Now if I can just keep myself from starting a Grand Seiko collection...


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## Igorek

Is yahoo japan cheaper than Ebay?


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## aafanatic

It is cheaper and more plentiful for 5 or 10 year old JDM models that are hard to find on ebay. Shipping through Buyee is about $30 and it arrives pretty quickly but is has to arrive from the vendor to Buyee first which can take a week. Often, one vendor has the watch on Yahoo Japan and a couple of people are trying to sell the watch at different prices on ebay. So, if I find something on ebay that I want, and it's coming from Japan and it's used, chances are that it's on Yahoo Japan for 20% less. This watch on Ebay that ranges from $1,300 to $1,540 is also on Buyee for $980.


----------



## Ziptie

Igorek said:


> Is yahoo japan cheaper than Ebay?


In my experience, usually. You're paying for the original auction and shipping but not padding profits for a middleman. The buyee Service fee is a very reasonable ¥500 / $5.

There's more commentary on this very topic starting at post number 527 here:

The definitive Citizen Titanium Thread / Super Titanium / Ti + IP / Duratect / MRK / DLC
The definitive Citizen Titanium Thread / Super Titanium...


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Buyee is currently issueing two coupons for use with Yahoo Japan Auction, 1) no Buyee Service Fee, that saves you 500 yen [expires 2021/02/28], and 2) 3,000 yen discount on international shipping fee [expires 2021/03/14]

This is a good opportunity to buy affordable watches or junk watches for parts, because you don't end up paying the same amount in fees and shipping. And it's still a nice discount on a more expensive watch, so let's hope the watch I'm still after pops up for sale before March 14, so I can be done with buying watches once and for all!


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## aafanatic

I skipped the repackaging service this time and my watch was shipped in an envelope without even bubble wrap The good news is that it arrived ok in spite


----------



## Ziptie

aafanatic said:


> I skipped the repackaging service this time and my watch was shipped in an envelope without even bubble wrap The good news is that it arrived ok in spite


Wow, glad it was ok, it's beautiful. The only watches I've received wrapped like that were luckily consolidated into a box with my other purchases.


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## CitizenPromaster

sky21 said:


> As a newcomer to the world to Yahoo Japan Auctions, do you know what will cause the auction to keep being extended over and over like that? Does the auction software just do that until the bids stop coming in to keep the price going up? Kind of negates the actual action end time in the listing.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Here's a tip for @sky21 who's looking for a PMP56-2932, they are not always listed as such, but in that case they will be listed by their caliber and case number, since those are visible on the back. So you can do searches for "PMP56-2932" and seperate searches for "citizen E610". E610 will of course yield other watches with that caliber, but at least you are less likely to miss out on one.

So the general tip for when you are looking for a specific watch is: regularly search for the model number and regularly search for "citizen + caliber".


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I actually found this one on a strap listed neither by model number nor caliber in the title. Too pricey though.
ヤフオク! - 動作良好 当店保証付 CITIZEN シチズン PROMASTE... (yahoo.co.jp)


----------



## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> View attachment 15728782
> 
> 
> I actually found this one on a strap listed neither by model number nor caliber in the title. Too pricey though.
> ヤフオク! - 動作良好 当店保証付 CITIZEN シチズン PROMASTE... (yahoo.co.jp)


Thanks for the heads up, I did see that one but agree that it's too expensive without a bracelet at all.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

After getting outbid in an auction today, I'm happy to report that after a few hours the Buyee coupons you used in that "failed" auction get re-issued. However, if you get outbid and you want to use them immediately for an auction that is ending soon after the one you lost, then you have a problem, because it takes a while for the coupon status to change back to "Able to use".


----------



## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> Meanwhile two Yahoo Auction sellers are trying to sell the Titanium Tech. 50th Ann. CC4025-82E for 550,000 yen including tax, while the one offered for 400,000 yen hasn't even sold yet. No one seems interested. Pretty shameful for Citizen if you ask me... All that effort for a celebratory watch that no one wants!


Someone was finally "brave" enough to offer the CC4025-82E starting at 1 yen. That seemed very risky to me, so I watched with great interest how the offers slowly reached 100,000 yen or so a couple of hours before the end. Just now I checked to see the final result, and it was 346,500 yen including tax! I cry foul, either they used a related account to drive up the price to above their cost price or they used a related account to outright win the auction for themselves so they don't actually have to sell it and funnel the money back somehow.

There are two other examples on Yahoo right now, one with a starting bid of 341,000 yen and a buyout price of 350,000 yen, the other with a starting bid of 385,000 yen including tax. This seems indicative of what these watches are actually costing the dealers. Usually that is perhaps 50% of the price excluding tax, so 250,000 yen, but maybe for this limited edition the margin is smaller and it might have cost them 300,000 yen excluding tax, which is 330,000 yen including tax.

We're supposed to believe that someone genuinely bid 346,500 yen for this watch after only 40 bids. 40 bids may seem like a lot, but the junk watch I was in a bidding war for sold for 11,650 yen with 28 bids! No way people aren't going to take many more tiny bidding steps for the CC4025-82E, hoping the price stays as low as possible.

What do you guys think?


----------



## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> Someone was finally "brave" enough to offer the CC4025-82E starting at 1 yen. That seemed very risky to me, so I watched with great interest how the offers slowly reached 100,000 yen or so a couple of hours before the end. Just now I checked to see the final result, and it was 346,500 yen including tax! I cry foul, either they used a related account to drive up the price to above their cost price or they used a related account to outright win the auction for themselves so they don't actually have to sell it and funnel the money back somehow.
> 
> There are two other examples on Yahoo right now, one with a starting bid of 341,000 yen and a buyout price of 350,000 yen, the other with a starting bid of 385,000 yen including tax. This seems indicative of what these watches are actually costing the dealers. Usually that is perhaps 50% of the price excluding tax, so 250,000 yen, but maybe for this limited edition the margin is smaller and it might have cost them 300,000 yen excluding tax, which is 330,000 yen including tax.
> 
> We're supposed to believe that someone genuinely bid 346,500 yen for this watch after only 40 bids. 40 bids may seem like a lot, but the junk watch I was in a bidding war for sold for 11,650 yen with 28 bids! No way people aren't going to take many more tiny bidding steps for the CC4025-82E, hoping the price stays as low as possible.
> 
> What do you guys think?


It does seem suspect that the price jumped so far in the last few hours at an auction site where most bidders wont even entertain a bid unless the item is a screaming deal. This practice, if true, would fall right in line with some other higher end watch dealers attempting to manipulate market prices for their watches to keep the hype machine as high as possible.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

The late price jump in itself is not what I find suspect, it's that people weren't biting when they could buy one for 400,000 yen many weeks ago, and they aren't biting now when they can get it today for a buyout price of 350,000 yen. My point being, if someone really wants it and can afford it, they wouldn't wait all this time only to bid pretty close to 400,000 yen anyway. That might be my flawed logic though, but no one is jumping at the one that is 341,000 yen start/350,000 yen buyout now, so the demand just isn't there even around the 350,000 yen mark, so I find a bid of 346,500 yen unlikely, especially considering how relatively few bids it took to get there.


----------



## Ziptie

I have to ask, are those accurate yen numbers, or have you added another zero? Because $3000 for a used Citizen pilot watch seems irrational no matter how rare it is.


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## CitizenPromaster

Ziptie this is that new 50th Anniversary Titanium Technology model I’ve been discussing in the Ti thread, and these are unused.


----------



## Ziptie

CitizenPromaster said:


> Ziptie this is that new 50th Anniversary Titanium Technology model I've been discussing in the Ti thread, and these are unused.


Ah! I wasn't tracking which model we were discussing, and assumed it was one of your usuals. ;-) This makes much more sense now.


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## CitizenPromaster

I'm just noticing the yen is getting weaker and weaker, which is good news now that I'm putting in a high bid! Add to that the coupon for shipping and the Man Math is complete!


----------



## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm just noticing the yen is getting weaker and weaker, which is good news now that I'm putting in a high bid! Add to that the coupon for shipping and the Man Math is complete!


The final piece of your watch collection is only days away now!! The stars are aligning for you for sure with this one.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

sky21 said:


> The final piece of your watch collection is only days away now!! The stars are aligning for you for sure with this one.


Yes, except for the fact that the battery is dead  but that will hopefully reduce the price...


----------



## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> Yes, except for the fact that the battery is dead  but that will hopefully reduce the price...


Think positive!! Of course it will, half price for you for sure!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

sky21 said:


> Think positive!! Of course it will, half price for you for sure!


I have a different approach (to life), I let my mind make peace with the worst case scenario, and since the end result is usually "better" than the worst case scenario, not only will I not be disappointed, I will be pleasantly surprised! However this mindset is not recommended for people that thrive on hope and optimism.


----------



## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> I have a different approach (to life), I let my mind make peace with the worst case scenario, and since the end result is usually "better" than the worst case scenario, not only will I not be disappointed, I will be pleasantly surprised! However this mindset is not recommended for people that thrive on hope and optimism.


Haha, so true, is your way of thinking in line with how most Dutch people go through life?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

sky21 said:


> Haha, so true, is your way of thinking in line with how most Dutch people go through life?


I've been avoiding people like the plague long before social distancing, so I can't tell you, but generally I feel like Dutch people, like most Westerners, are high on Hopium and/or Consumerism. I'm not judging, to each his own!


----------



## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> I've been avoiding people like the plague long before social distancing, so I can't tell you, but generally I feel like Dutch people, like most Westerners, are high on Hopium and/or Consumerism. I'm not judging, to each his own!


Here in the US we are certainly a consumer driven society these days. Our national household saving rate has actually increased fairly substantially during the pandemic as people have been unable to spend spend spend as they usually do. 
I wonder if a majority of the bidders on Yahoo are actually Japanese or foreigners looking to buy otherwise unobtainable Japanese products?


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## CitizenPromaster

Yeah I wonder too what the demographic of bidders is. I think us foreigners are still in the minority, but I have nothing to back that up.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

More monkey business on Yahoo Japan Auction today. A certain Promaster was not getting a lot of bids, though 66 people or so were following the auction. I knew someone from WUS had put in a snipe bid which is entered right at the end. I watched the final moments and saw how someone kept bidding higher until he outbid the snipe bid. He won the auction. But then I check back later and while the amount was still at the highest bid, the page says 0 bids. It's like the seller cancelled all the bids. Now that can happen when they don't like the rating of the highest bidder, but in this case something else is going on. They wrote in the description:
"Since it will start by 1 yen, please make no claim no return. If you do not reach the desired amount, there is a possibility of cancellation before the end."
Fair enough, but as far as I could see, they did not cancel BEFORE the end, they cancelled AFTER the end, which seems like a violation of the terms.

If they want a minimum they should just enter a starting bid, not this 1 yen crap. They want to have it both ways, 1 yen so no claim no return, but they also want to cancel when they please!

It's like those stupid car auctions. "We will start at 100,000 dollars." A while later... "Final bid 600,000 dollars? Sorry, the reserve has not been met." Get bent!


----------



## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> More monkey business on Yahoo Japan Auction today. A certain Promaster was not getting a lot of bids, though 66 people or so were following the auction. I knew someone from WUS had put in a snipe bid which is entered right at the end. I watched the final moments and saw how someone kept bidding higher until he outbid the snipe bid. He won the auction. But then I check back later and while the amount was still at the highest bid, the page says 0 bids. It's like the seller cancelled all the bids. Now that can happen when they don't like the rating of the highest bidder, but in this case something else is going on. They wrote in the description:
> "Since it will start by 1 yen, please make no claim no return. If you do not reach the desired amount, there is a possibility of cancellation before the end."
> Fair enough, but as far as I could see, they did not cancel BEFORE the end, they cancelled AFTER the end, which seems like a violation of the terms.
> 
> If they want a minimum they should just enter a starting bid, not this 1 yen crap. They want to have it both ways, 1 yen so no claim no return, but they also want to cancel when they please!
> 
> It's like those stupid car auctions. "We will start at 100,000 dollars." A while later... "Final bid 600,000 dollars? Sorry, the reserve has not been met." Get bent!


That sounds like some shady business right there!! Since you keep finding these little issues coming up it does seem like these auctions are geared more toward foreign bidders. I just don't see Japanese sellers trying to almost con domestic Japanese buyers like this, it just wouldn't work.


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## CitizenPromaster

Well I don't think it was an outright con, but he clearly didn't want to sell it for the final amount, which was indeed pretty low, but I think he was using a backdoor to cancel the sale, and that is shady.


----------



## aafanatic

Remember that a lot of these watches are being offered through many vendors at the same time: Yahoo Japan, brick and mortar, and ebay. Sometimes they sell some where else and all the vendors need to pull their offering As Cit-Pro pointed out to me earlier, "we're hunters", I just need to remember that the "hunt" is a lot of fun


----------



## PetWatch

CitizenPromaster said:


> More monkey business on Yahoo Japan Auction today. A certain Promaster was not getting a lot of bids, though 66 people or so were following the auction. I knew someone from WUS had put in a snipe bid which is entered right at the end. I watched the final moments and saw how someone kept bidding higher until he outbid the snipe bid. He won the auction. But then I check back later and while the amount was still at the highest bid, the page says 0 bids. It's like the seller cancelled all the bids. Now that can happen when they don't like the rating of the highest bidder, but in this case something else is going on. They wrote in the description:
> *"Since it will start by 1 yen, please make no claim no return. If you do not reach the desired amount, there is a possibility of cancellation before the end."*
> Fair enough, but as far as I could see, they did not cancel BEFORE the end, they cancelled AFTER the end, which seems like a violation of the terms.
> 
> If they want a minimum they should just enter a starting bid, not this 1 yen crap. They want to have it both ways, 1 yen so no claim no return, but they also want to cancel when they please!
> 
> It's like those stupid car auctions. "We will start at 100,000 dollars." A while later... "Final bid 600,000 dollars? Sorry, the reserve has not been met." Get bent!


I'm not familiar with this auction's regulations but this seems like a translation issue. Why would you cancel bidding before the auction ends when you have a hidden reserve price that has to be met in order to have a winning bid? Doesn't make any sense. I agree it should not say 0 bids at the end of the auction when there were in fact bids, perhaps since there was no winner they consider it a non auction and discount all bids.


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## CitizenPromaster

PetWatch said:


> I'm not familiar with this auction's regulations but this seems like a translation issue. Why would you cancel bidding before the auction ends when you have a hidden reserve price that has to be met in order to have a winning bid? Doesn't make any sense. I agree it should not say 0 bids at the end of the auction when there were in fact bids, perhaps since there was no winner they consider it a non auction and discount all bids.


I catch your drift, but the whole point of auctions is that the highest bid wins, and a reserve can only be done through a "minimum" starting bid. Even with below option the highest bid wins.


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## PetWatch

CitizenPromaster said:


> I catch your drift, but the whole point of auctions is that the highest bid wins, and a reserve can only be done through a "minimum" starting bid. Even with below option the highest bid wins.
> 
> View attachment 15748307


I wonder if the option for early cancellation is a separate option. On Ebay and apparently on Yahoo Japan auctions too, see below, a seller can have an undisclosed reserve price that must be met for there to be a winner. The reserve does not have to be the starting bid. At any rate, it certainly has some quirky features, such as unlimited time extension as long as higher bids come in every five minutes after "ending" time. It must get tiresome to be making money with no end in sight. 






Celga, Inc. - Your source for Japanese goods.







www.celga.com





*Q: The bid on an item keeps going up, but there's no high bidder listed. What's going on?*
_
A: Sellers on Yahoo Japan can choose to set a reserve on their auctions. A reserve is a 
price, higher than the starting bid, under which the seller will not sell. Sellers often do 
this to generate interest in their auctions without taking the risk of selling at a low price.

You can tell if an auction has a reserve price by the red text at the bottom of the second 
column of a listing.

If an item has received bids that do not meet the reserve price, the current bid price on the 
item will reflect these bids, but no high bidder will be listed because no one is winning 
the auction. When the reserve on an item has been reached, the high bidder's ID will be 
shown along with the current bid price.

If the auction ends with no bid reaching the reserve price, there is no winner, and the item 
is not sold. The seller is free to relist it._


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## CitizenPromaster

I appreciate your input, but I wish there was a primary source about the existence of a reserve price. The word "reserve" yields no search results in the Buyee FAQ, and the only thing I can find in the Yahoo Q&A is the below (auto-translated from 困ったときのQ&A　ヤフオク!ご利用ガイド (yahoo.co.jp) ), but I don't see anything relating to a reserve price.

From the buyer perspective:
_Bids and listings cancelled
Cancellation of listing In the event of unavoidable circumstances such as damage to the item, the item may be canceled at the seller's discretion, even in an auction with bidders. In addition, Yahoo! JAPAN may cancel due to violation of terms of use or guidelines. ■ Cancellation of bid The bid may be canceled at the discretion of the seller. Yahoo! JAPAN cannot individually answer the reason for the cancellation._

From the seller perspective:
_I want to cancel my listing
If you break a product or cannot prepare it during listing, you can cancel the listing from [Auction Management] on the product page. Precautions ・ If you cancel an auction that has been bid on even once, a listing cancellation system usage fee of 550 yen (tax included) will be charged for each auction. ・ Bidder spends time selecting products and bidding. Before canceling, we recommend that you add "reason for cancellation" and "apology" to the item description.

I want to cancel a transaction (delete the winning bidder)
If you cannot trade with the winning bidder, please delete the winning bidder (or winning bidder candidate) by the deadline (*). If you do not delete it, you will be charged a successful bid system usage fee even if you have not actually made a transaction such as delivery of goods. Click here for details on deleting the winning bidder ■ If you cannot trade due to your own circumstances (exhibitor) After explaining the circumstances to the highest bidder, please delete the highest bidder at "exhibitor's convenience". If you delete it for the convenience of the seller, you (seller) will be evaluated as "very bad" on the system. ■ When it becomes impossible to trade due to the circumstances of the other party (successful bidder) Please delete the highest bidder in "Convenience of the highest bidder". If you delete it for the sake of the highest bidder, the other party (successful bidder) will be evaluated as "very bad" on the system. * Deadline for deleting the highest bidder Auctions ending 1st to 15th: The last day of the end month or within 14 days of the end of the auction (whichever comes first) Auction ended from 16th to the end of the month: Within 14 days from the end of the auction 【please note】 -The winning bidder cannot be deleted 14 days after it makes a successful bid. (In the case of an auction that ended at 20:10, the winning bidder can be deleted until 20:10, 14 days later) ・ There is a limit to the number of successful bidders that can be deleted per day. -If the winning bidder has completed payment by Yahoo! Easy Payment, the winning bidder cannot be deleted after the payment procedure is completed. ・ If the winning bidder chooses Yahoo! Easy payment by bank transfer or convenience store payment, the winning bidder cannot be deleted when the transfer account or convenience store payment payment number is issued. However, if the winning bidder does not make the payment and the payment deadline has passed, the payment for Yahoo! Easy Payment will be canceled and the winning bidder will be able to be deleted._

Surely that Q&A page would mention the reserve price if it existed? And surely Yahoo understands that starting at 1 yen and having a hidden reserve price will annoy bidders rather than "generate interest".


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Interesting bidding on my latest auction success. It was at 20,000 yen since yesterday, and 2 hours before the end someone inched up to 31,000 yen, so my automatic bid was 31,500 yen, since I had put in a maximum of 31,800 yen. I was expecting someone to go to 32,000 yen in the final moments, but nothing happened and I won! I guess people were shifting to the other 2901 that came up for sale yesterday, also not functioning, but with missing links and no box and papers. So I guess my collection is complete (for now haha).


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Shortly after the auction of "my" 2901 ended, the highest bid on the other 2901 shot up to 20,500 yen haha. I'm curious to find out how the bidders value the extra links and the box and papers, or lack thereof.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Not long after the second 2901 shot up to 20,500 yen, a third 2901 popped up for sale. Again not functioning, but this time with plenty of links. Unsurprisingly, no more bids came in on the second 2901, and it sold for 20,500 yen, while 34 people were following the auction. Now the third 2901 sits at 3,500 yen with 70 people watching and 3 days left.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Less than 5 hours left on the third 2901, it's been at 6,750 yen since yesterday, 107 (!!!) people watching. Who needs sports when you can watch auctions?


----------



## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> Less than 5 hours left on the third 2901, it's been at 6,750 yen since yesterday, 107 (!!!) people watching. Who needs sports when you can watch auctions?


Now we've crossed over the 10,000 yen mark. Already up to 32 bids, I'm saying at least 50 bids on this with still over 100 watching.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

It's a real thriller. Now people are bidding in the last seconds, as if that doesn't extend the time by 5 minutes haha


----------



## CitizenPromaster

The bidding is over. Only 15,001 yen! That makes no sense at all. I guess the market was saturated?


----------



## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> The bidding is over. Only 15,001 yen! That makes no sense at all. I guess the market was saturated?


Agreed!! Now whoever bought the second one is really upset. He got a watch with very few links that was also not working for 5,500 yen more!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Hahahaha yeah, and what about me? I got a watch with a few more links, with a useless box, also not working, for 16,500 yen more!

No, it's fine, mine looks better overall (I look at fit and finish too), and I knowingly overpaid to have the full set, since that is something that I value for some weird reason, and I knew I was saving 2,200 yen on shipping because of the coupon, so using Man Math I only paid 29,300 yen. Also, I wanted to get buying a 2901 over with! But if someone had bid 32,000 yen, I would have let them win.

As you (sky21) already know, but others don't yet, the last two 2901's with plenty of links that were working sold for 31,500 yen (Dec '20) and 32,780 yen (Jan '21).

What I think happened is, people see so many turning up at the same time, they're probably thinking "I will wait for the next one that does work."

If this 15,001 yen watch comes back to life on its own it's a pretty good deal! If it needs a battery, fair price.

But the strange thing is, the guy winning the second 2901 wouldn't have had to bid 20,500 yen unless someone else had bid 20,000 yen. So did the second highest bidder on the second 2901 now get lucky on the third 2901? Were there only four people really wanting a 2901? #1, me, willing to pay 31,500 yen for the first 2901. #2, a guy, willing to pay 31,000 yen (second highest bid) for the first 2901, but possibly winning the second 2901 for 20,500 yen. #3, a guy, willing to pay 20,000 yen (second highest bid) for the second 2901, but possibly winning the third 2901 for 15,001 yen. And #4, a guy willing to pay 14,501 yen (second highest bid) for the third 2901, but who missed out.

Or... the guy who bought the second 2901 for 20,500 yen now also bought the third 2901 for 15,001 yen and he will try to sell the second 2901 for 15,000 yen so he breaks even haha.

All we know for sure is that auctions can give some really strange results!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

It's been SEVEN days since my package left the Japanese "outward office of exchange". Last two packages made it to the Dutch "inward office of exchange" two or three days later. Now the track and trace is just stuck in limbo. Should I get worried? There is no one to contact at Japan Post unless you speak Japanese, and Buyee have done their part by handing it over to Japan Post. Big bummer...


----------



## aafanatic

Deep Breath... you are a hunter, remember?! 
PS I worry about tracking numbers all the time


----------



## Ziptie

These are uncertain times. It’ll all work out.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Well I paid for the Standard Plan (Insured Delivery + Inspection) so I will wait one more day and then it's Buyee's problem to solve, since it's EMS.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

By the way, I don't care if my package is lost or not, it's only a watch (that I don't need), I'm just disappointed in the service. Usually I pay 2,200 yen for that, but with the coupon it was free international shipping, I guess you get what you pay for haha.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

My package has finally made it to the Dutch customs, only 5 days late!
"Arrival at inward office of exchange" > "Item presented to import Customs"


----------



## TehKing

5 days from winning the auction via Buyee to my doorstep in Minnesota.

Changed the strap as the stock one was too short and pretty tired.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Thursday morning (Dutch time) my package was still missing so I alerted Buyee and by the time Buyee Customer Support investigated the matter (Friday morning Japanese time) the tracking page had already been updated, so of course they told me that my package was at Dutch customs. Anyway, my point is that Buyee can't be faulted in the matter, it's bad service from Japan Post or the Dutch Post, and Buyee Customer Support replied to my message pretty quickly and they write in English.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

These look like duplicate auctions, but they actually have different photos and the watches have different serial numbers
1円●正規/稼働品【CITIZEN プロマスター】エコドライブ デュオ/Duo B510-H26230 チタン 裏スケ メンズ腕時計 110A0068278 /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online 
1円●美品/稼働品【CITIZEN プロマスター】エコドライブ デュオ/Duo B510-H26230 チタン 裏スケ メンズ腕時計 020A0068277 /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan!


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## CitizenPromaster

aafanatic said:


> I skipped the repackaging service this time and my watch was shipped in an envelope without even bubble wrap The good news is that it arrived ok in spite


I never opt for the protective packaging, especially this time, since it came in the original box. Well even so, they packaged it wonderfully, filling up the space around the Citizen box, and someone even put bubble wrap on the watch to fill the space inside the watch box and the watch itself was put inside a zip lock bag! 10/10 for packaging. Customs had opened it up (see red letters), but there was no contraband to be found haha.


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## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> I never opt for the protective packaging, especially this time, since it came in the original box. Well even so, they packaged it wonderfully, filling up the space around the Citizen box, and someone even put bubble wrap on the watch to fill the space inside the watch box and the watch itself was put inside a zip lock bag! 10/10 for packaging. Customs had opened it up (see red letters), but there was no contraband to be found haha.
> 
> View attachment 15777833
> 
> View attachment 15777834


Looks great with all the extras and very well protected. Glad it finally made its way over to you.


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## aafanatic

@CitizenPromaster You are so psyched


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## CitizenPromaster

The top one had less wear and 1 extra link, the bottom one had a possibly defective crown, but both were working, look at the price difference though


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## GoodNamesWereTaken

I prefer Buyee because it's easy to navigate, the fees are alright, and it gives me access to some pretty cool deals. Speaking of which: Who wants to snag up a Citizen Chronomaster 500M diver?

It's only 573,600 Yen with 2 days left.



https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/q427402334?conversionType=search_suggest


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## CitizenPromaster

GoodNamesWereTaken said:


> I prefer Buyee because it's easy to navigate, the fees are alright, and it gives me access to some pretty cool deals. Speaking of which: Who wants to snag up a Citizen Chronomaster 500M diver?
> 
> It's only 573,600 Yen with 2 days left.
> 
> 
> 
> https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/q427402334?conversionType=search_suggest


Yes, I've been following this auction. This proofs there are some serious(ly wealthy) Citizen collectors out there!


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## CitizenPromaster

Big crowd (135) watching how this will end


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## CitizenPromaster

Low opening price or high opening price, if the price is right, it will sell. And these Walter Wolf Racing Chronographs are in high demand.


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## Pmnealhsd

This is a fascinating resource, I had no idea this existed. I’m super interested in JDM Citizen, so thanks very much for all the great tips.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CitizenPromaster

I wonder what the limit is for other proxy services. I did not expect this to ever apply to a vintage Citizen!


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## CitizenPromaster

Straight to the top 3 of most expensive Citizen watches, and this remained the highest bid. I imagine this is the highest sold vintage Citizen ever?










Mind you, this 500m diver was far from mint condition! The seller said "It is a rare Citizen vintage watch." but even so I think they had no idea what it was worth. Below are the most expensive items they still have for sale. Whoever brought this watch to them really was a fool, and the shop sure got lucky, because they probably didn't pay more for it than the opening price of 10,000 yen.


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## jvspin

I'm thinking of shipping a few used watches using DHL. Zenmarket says I will need to fill out a watch worksheet. Does anyone have experience with this process?


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## CitizenPromaster

jvspin said:


> I'm thinking of shipping a few used watches using DHL. Zenmarket says I will need to fill out a watch worksheet. Does anyone have experience with this process?


So far only you and @Mr. James Duffy seem to be using zenmarket, but is that "watch worksheet" a zenmarket thing or a DHL thing?


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## Mr. James Duffy

CitizenPromaster said:


> So far only you and @Mr. James Duffy seem to be using zenmarket, but is that "watch worksheet" a zenmarket thing or a DHL thing?


It's a DHL and FedEx for US Customs thing.


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## CitizenPromaster

@sky21 didn't you use DHL?


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## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> @sky21 didn't you use DHL?


No I used FedEx and didn't have to fill out anything.


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## Mr. James Duffy

jvspin said:


> I'm thinking of shipping a few used watches using DHL. Zenmarket says I will need to fill out a watch worksheet. Does anyone have experience with this process?


Sorry, the last time I did it, I was able to submit the worksheet online with DHL but that page no longer exists. I had to declare the value of an old Seiko which was around $50 and had a 1 jewel quartz movement. I estimated the value of the movement to be $10 and the case and bracelet to be the rest of it and clearance went through right away. Maybe they are requiring the form to be emailed to them now.

This used to be the link:
dhl-usa.com/en/express/customs_support/clearance_on_demand/clocks_watches.html


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## jvspin

Thanks for the responses. I found this on the DHL site. I'm guessing I would fill it out and submit it for each watch in the shipment. Anyone know if there is a single waybill number that I use repeatedly for each watch?






Clocks and Watches







mydhl.express.dhl





Alternative is to use surface shipment and wait 3 months.


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## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> How rare is it? 56 bids and 141,000 yen rare!





Lepdiggums said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Unfortunately this listing was a total scam, the watch was relisted a week later under a completely new seller with no ratings. Yahoo jp is no different to eBay except you probably won't get your money back!!


The watch has indeed been relisted, for 40,000 yen. Shady stuff. Most of us have only good experiences though as can be seen in this thread.
Also, if you pay 500 yen for the Standard Plan, Buyee will refund you if the product is never sent to them or if it is not the same product as listed. So no risk there.

The service these proxy buyers provide to us overseas folks is invaluable, and the cost of their service is nothing compared to the shipping costs, so I can't recommend them enough. I have no worries at all about not getting my money back, since I pay to Buyee, I don't pay directly to potential scammers.

The original seller of this watch only had three (positive) ratings in total, so that was already sketchy, even though they were good ratings. Either way, 500 yen would have insured the 141,000 yen.


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## Ziptie

jvspin said:


> I'm thinking of shipping a few used watches using DHL. Zenmarket says I will need to fill out a watch worksheet. Does anyone have experience with this process?


Buyee asked me for a DHL form for my last 2 purchase. Not sure if that's a change in policy or because I finally made purchases over $500. I couldn't figure out where to submit the forms and the packages were delivered quickly without.


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## jvspin

Ziptie said:


> Buyee asked me for a DHL form for my last 2 purchase. Not sure if that's a change in policy or because I finally made purchases over $500. I couldn't figure out where to submit the forms and the packages were delivered quickly without.


Thanks for sharing your experience. Can you tell me how much shipping cost for the two watches?


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## Ziptie

jvspin said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience. Can you tell me how much shipping cost for the two watches?


It depends on the size of the package or packages you're getting, but for a standard ~6" cube watch box it's around $40. I've had multiple small packages combined into larger boxes and shipped for around $60.

In my mind I add about $50 to the total auction price per watch to cover all fees and shipping to the US. It varies with the Yen, but that's within $10 of the actual cost.


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## CitizenPromaster

It has been brought to my attention by @Lepdiggums, who is having some issues with a refund, that Buyee is getting a lot of bad reviews on their Facebook page lately. Here are some examples.



















Unfortunately in this day and age you can't trust any reviews on the internet, good or bad, and we all know you don't go to Facebook for accurate information, however, I think we all need to be aware of this. All I know is that all of us together in this thread have bought a decent number of watches via Buyee and we have not had any issues. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Lepdiggums

Thanks CitizenPromaster, I really appreciate all your help, I look forward to hearing from everyone 🙂👍


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## Triku

I have bought seven watches since August from Buyee. 
All have arrived perfect and fast. I am in Spain. Now I have three watches on the way and one of the packages has not been shipped since March 25th. I have asked them and they have answered me but they simply invite me to be patient and tell me that the package will arrive. I do not know if the package has not left or it is simply a tracking problem and the package is already on its way.
The second one is still there too.

Something is going wrong this month


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## CitizenPromaster

Looks like I've just dodged the bullet with my package one month ago!


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## CitizenPromaster

This auction made maximum use of the bidding amount intervals 
Product price Interval
1JPY - 999JPY -- 10JPY
1，000JPY - 4，999JPY -- 100JPY
5，000JPY - 9，999JPY -- 250JPY
10，000JPY - 49，999JPY -- 500JPY
50，000JPY and above -- 1，000JPY


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## CitizenPromaster

The way I read the below Q&A, you don't even need the Insured Delivery (part of the Standard Plan) for scam sellers who never deliver the product to Buyee, you will get a refund anyway. However, I still recommend the 500 Yen Standard Plan to cover all other eventualities!


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## Lepdiggums

A fantastic bit of information CitizenPromaster!!!!! This will help a lot of people to understand how buyee works.


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## CitizenPromaster

Lepdiggums said:


> A fantastic bit of information CitizenPromaster!!!!! This will help a lot of people to understand how buyee works.


I remember you telling me that Buyee pays the seller after the package arrives at their warehouse. What made you say that?
If that is the case, then Buyee has no risk, because scammers will not get paid. Maybe that is why some sellers say "no proxy services"? They want to get paid upfront?


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## CitizenPromaster

I almost bought another watch today, but I tapped out eventually. The "price elasticity of demand" is huge and nonlinear on these used Citizens! Price elasticity means for example that if the price is $100 then 10,000 people want it, if the price is $150 then 5,000 people want it, and if the price is $200 then 2,500 people want it.

Well at Yahoo Japan Auction it's more like, if the watch is 10,000 yen, then 70 people want it. If it's 15,000 yen then 20 people want it. If it's 18,000 yen then 5 people want it, and if it's 20,000 then 2 people want it, who end up outbidding eachother until it's 24,000 yen. My point being that people lose interest very quickly!

77 people were following this auction, but I felt like past 20,000 yen it was only me and another person bidding. I let him have it for 24,000 yen, I'm very generous ;-)
So are these 77 people just spectators? The watch wasn't that spectacular...


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## Lepdiggums

CitizenPromaster said:


> I remember you telling me that Buyee pays the seller after the package arrives at their warehouse. What made you say that?
> If that is the case, then Buyee has no risk, because scammers will not get paid. Maybe that is why some sellers say "no proxy services"? They want to get paid upfront?


Hi Citizenpromaster, 
I'm only speculating, but it kind of makes sense, You will receive a refund if your item turns up at buyee warehouse damaged, or if it's different from what is described in the description of the auction you win!!
This is what makes me think that the seller won't get paid until buyee receives the item for inspection and approval.

A friend won two auctions after me, both were shipped asap to the warehouse and shipped to him with in two weeks. That's pretty impressive!!

My story is completely different!!!!

I won an auction!! A very long story indeed which I will share soon!!!!

So far nothing has arrived at buyee warehouse yet and its been 20+ days, once it hits 30 days, I can apply for a refund.

Considering the seller closed there account, then RELISTED the item i won under a new account name!!!! leads me to think that the auction i was bidding on may have been a scam (I still can't confirm that yet!!! But a very strange thing to do!!!!!)

The watch just sold again over the weekend to a buyer with over 5000 feedbacks. Its definitely going to be interesting in the next few days to see what happens????


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## CitizenPromaster

I'm gonna say again how amazing it is that NOS watches like this have survived, that they are for sale, and that we are able to buy them from Japan through proxy services.










☆☆☆１９５０年代デッドストック品　CITIZEN　CENTERSECOND　17石　紳士手巻紳士腕時計　お洒落中古品 /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online


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## CitizenPromaster

Buyee announcement:

_19 Apr 2021
Thank you for using Buyee.

FedEx has announced that the shipment for packages destined for The United States of America, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Peru and Chile will be temporally restricted due to the large quantity of packages.

In response to this, Buyee will send packages stored in our warehouse for the countries mentioned above to FedEx sequentially from April 19th, 2021.

This may cause delaying in shipping of affected packages.
We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused and thank you in advance for your understanding._

So it's not just Japan Post that's struggling.


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## Triku

Patience. Four watches on the way at the moment, one day they will arrive. It's a shame, I've missed good watches that I want.


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## Triku

I want this but not this time.
PMP-2912


https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/b554088824?conversionType=buyee_top_browsing_history


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## jvspin

Reporting back on my recent DHL shipping experience from Japan to USA (California) using the zenmarket proxy service.

TL:dr Recieved shipment in a week without additional charges. Total value $1350 but most expensive watch was $750.

3 used Omega quartz watches ($200, $400, $750)*
22cm × 17cm × 15cm
572g
Shipping cost $40 ($25 shipping + $15 insurance)*
*converted from yen to usd
Processed through hub in Cincinnati

DHL contacted me when the package reached the US and sent me the attached document to fill out. Zenmarket only listed a single watch (no battery) with a value of 147,410 yen on their supporting DHL document. I filled out a separate worksheet for each watch and included the invoice zenmarket provided me that listed each watch and value individually. The invoice listed each watch as "no battery". I stated each watch was used and had quartz movements with silver oxide batteries.

The package got hung up in customs for a few days with the tracking system saying more information was needed by the importer. DHL showed the information had been accepted. I was worried that my stating the watches had batteries may have caused a problem.

The package eventually cleared customs and was delivered without issue. I saw no indication the package had been opened and there was a sealed clear envelope attached containing the same invoice zenmarket had provided me.


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## CitizenPromaster

So total value way over $800 but still no taxes? Congrats!


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## CitizenPromaster

This fun little Wild West Citizen is getting a lot of bids!










シチズン　ホーマー　ピストル文字盤　CITIZEN　HOMER　 17石 /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online


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## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> So total value way over $800 but still no taxes? Congrats!


I've never had to fill out any paper work, pay additional taxes or fees using EMS or surface mail. EMS and surface usually clear customs in a day.


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## CitizenPromaster

jvspin said:


> I've never had to fill out any paper work, pay additional taxes or fees using EMS or surface mail. EMS and surface usually clear customs in a day.


That can only mean that the government has found easier ways to tax you on other stuff ;-)


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## CitizenPromaster

EMS shipping to The Netherlands has jumped from 2,200 yen to 3,200 yen, that really sucks as I wanted to go for some cheaper watches, and then shipping is a relatively big part of the cost. So to save money on shipping you have to spend money on multiple watches and then consolidate them. Bummer...


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## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> EMS shipping to The Netherlands has jumped from 2,200 yen to 3,200 yen, that really sucks as I wanted to go for some cheaper watches, and then shipping is a relatively big part of the cost. So to save money on shipping you have to spend money on multiple watches and then consolidate them. Bummer...


EMS to the US was similar at around 2,200 yen and didn't increase much with additional watches shipped. I always bundle to reduce shipping costs per watch, it just requires patience, as zenmarket will hold purchases for 45 days free. After that they charge 50yen/day for each item that is over.


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## bloody watches

CitizenPromaster said:


> EMS shipping to The Netherlands has jumped from 2,200 yen to 3,200 yen, that really sucks as I wanted to go for some cheaper watches, and then shipping is a relatively big part of the cost. So to save money on shipping you have to spend money on multiple watches and then consolidate them. Bummer...


my latest quote has come in a 11000 yen ( 4 items) normally about 3500 yen


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## Ziptie

bloody watches said:


> my latest quote has come in a 11000 yen ( 4 items) normally about 3500 yen


One (or more) of them must be in larger boxes. :-/


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## bloody watches

Ziptie said:


> One (or more) of them must be in larger boxes. :-/


No shouldn't be, im paying for them to be repacked


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## Ziptie

bloody watches said:


> No shouldn't be, im paying for them to be repacked


Oh bummer.


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## CitizenPromaster

bloody watches said:


> my latest quote has come in a 11000 yen ( 4 items) normally about 3500 yen


That really sucks! I guess the good days are over! For now anyway.


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## georgefl74

CitizenPromaster said:


> EMS shipping to The Netherlands has jumped from 2,200 yen to 3,200 yen, that really sucks as I wanted to go for some cheaper watches, and then shipping is a relatively big part of the cost. So to save money on shipping you have to spend money on multiple watches and then consolidate them. Bummer...


Well at least Buyee still uses EMS, Zenmarket doesn't and that's a huge pain here in Greece with surface mail taking forever and DHL being an expensive local service to get through customs.

Sent from my AGS2-W09 using Tapatalk


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## CitizenPromaster

georgefl74 said:


> Well at least Buyee still uses EMS, Zenmarket doesn't and that's a huge pain here in Greece with surface mail taking forever and DHL being an expensive local service to get through customs.
> 
> Sent from my AGS2-W09 using Tapatalk


That also sucks. Time to start a new company? Watchuship.com ;-)


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## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> EMS shipping to The Netherlands has jumped from 2,200 yen to 3,200 yen, that really sucks as I wanted to go for some cheaper watches, and then shipping is a relatively big part of the cost. So to save money on shipping you have to spend money on multiple watches and then consolidate them. Bummer...


Actually I was jumping to incorrect conclusions. I didn't realize EMS had a shipping price based on weight, and I guess the watch that Buyee said would cost 3,500 yen to ship was heavier than my previous packages. If I take a 500g package (a titanium watch is around 120g, so even with a Citizen box and a small shipping box it should be under 500g) it is still 2,200 yen. And there is now also a FedEx option for 2,175 yen that takes a bit longer.


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## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> Hahahaha yeah, and what about me? I got a watch with a few more links, with a useless box, also not working, for 16,500 yen more!
> 
> No, it's fine, mine looks better overall (I look at fit and finish too), and I knowingly overpaid to have the full set, since that is something that I value for some weird reason, and I knew I was saving 2,200 yen on shipping because of the coupon, so using Man Math I only paid 29,300 yen. Also, I wanted to get buying a 2901 over with! But if someone had bid 32,000 yen, I would have let them win.
> 
> As you (sky21) already know, but others don't yet, the last two 2901's with plenty of links that were working sold for 31,500 yen (Dec '20) and 32,780 yen (Jan '21).
> 
> What I think happened is, people see so many turning up at the same time, they're probably thinking "I will wait for the next one that does work."
> 
> If this 15,001 yen watch comes back to life on its own it's a pretty good deal! If it needs a battery, fair price.
> 
> But the strange thing is, the guy winning the second 2901 wouldn't have had to bid 20,500 yen unless someone else had bid 20,000 yen. So did the second highest bidder on the second 2901 now get lucky on the third 2901? Were there only four people really wanting a 2901? #1, me, willing to pay 31,500 yen for the first 2901. #2, a guy, willing to pay 31,000 yen (second highest bid) for the first 2901, but possibly winning the second 2901 for 20,500 yen. #3, a guy, willing to pay 20,000 yen (second highest bid) for the second 2901, but possibly winning the third 2901 for 15,001 yen. And #4, a guy willing to pay 14,501 yen (second highest bid) for the third 2901, but who missed out.
> 
> Or... the guy who bought the second 2901 for 20,500 yen now also bought the third 2901 for 15,001 yen and he will try to sell the second 2901 for 15,000 yen so he breaks even haha.
> 
> All we know for sure is that auctions can give some really strange results!


Such a strange place, Yahoo Japan Auction. Another PMP56-2901 came up for sale, again not working, again with box, looked good as new in the pictures, plenty of links, just some poor finishing on the case compared to mine. I didn't mind having a second one, so I put in a maximum bid of 20,600 yen excl. tax, considering I already have one, and as I said the finishing seemed off, plus it had a sticker on the back (anyone can put a clear sticker on) which raised my suspicion further. I mean, if it was truly almost "new old stock", why were the tags missing?
Anyway, it took a few days for someone to outbid me with 20,661 yen and then nothing happened, until in the very last seconds someone bid 21,161 yen excl. tax and he won the auction despite the automatic extension adding 5 minutes. That is 23,277 yen including tax. So about 8,000 yen less than what I ended up paying for mine.

The 2901 that sold for 15,001 yen a while back was resold by the buyer and he only got 10,620 yen for it.

So the market value of particular watches is fickle to say the least. Here is an overview I made for the 2901, which I've kept track of since March 2020.


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## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> Such a strange place, Yahoo Japan Auction. Another PMP56-2901 came up for sale, again not working, again with box, looked good as new in the pictures, plenty of links, just some poor finishing on the case compared to mine. I didn't mind having a second one, so I put in a maximum bid of 20,600 yen excl. tax, considering I already have one, and as I said the finishing seemed off, plus it had a sticker on the back (anyone can put a clear sticker on) which raised my suspicion further. I mean, if it was truly almost "new old stock", why were the tags missing?
> Anyway, it took a few days for someone to outbid me with 20,661 yen and then nothing happened, until in the very last seconds someone bid 21,161 yen excl. tax and he won the auction despite the automatic extension adding 5 minutes. That is 23,277 yen including tax. So about 8,000 yen less than what I ended up paying for mine.
> 
> The 2901 that sold for 15,001 yen a while back was resold by the buyer and he only got 10,620 yen for it.
> 
> So the market value of particular watches is fickle to say the least. Here is an overview I made for the 2901, which I've kept track of since March 2020.
> 
> View attachment 15848199


It's surprising how much the prices fluctuate. Sometimes I think it's due to a poor listing or photographs and othertimes because there aren't two people bidding against each other at the end of the auction.

It seems like a lot of sellers list their quartz watches as "junk" and non operational which helps lower the price.  
I don't pay much attention to that. Though there have been a few duds, usually a new battery or a day in the sun for ecodrive (sometimes a new cell), plus understanding how to set some of the perpetual calendar movements I'm fond of is all that's needed.


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## CitizenPromaster

jvspin said:


> It's surprising how much the prices fluctuate. Sometimes I think it's due to a poor listing or photographs and othertimes because there aren't two people bidding against each other at the end of the auction.


Very true, having two people online that want it can turn 25,000 yen into 30,000 yen in a few minutes. And at the next auction, the biggest potential rival might have just bought another watch so he is out of cash for the month, and you end up getting it without a bidding war.

And some people hope that you won't go online until you get the e-mail from Yahoo or Buyee that you've been outbid, so they wait until the last seconds and hope you can't come online within 5 minutes. It seems to have worked in the auction I described! I can't imagine that the guy who outbid me days ago was not willing to pay 500 yen more than the final seconds bidder, but of course everyone has a limit...


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## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> Very true, having two people online that want it can turn 25,000 yen into 30,000 yen in a few minutes. And at the next auction, the biggest potential rival might have just bought another watch so he is out of cash for the month, and you end up getting it without a bidding war.
> 
> And some people hope that you won't go online until you get the e-mail from Yahoo or Buyee that you've been outbid, so they wait until the last seconds and hope you can't come online within 5 minutes. It seems to have worked in the auction I described! I can't imagine that the guy who outbid me days ago was not willing to pay 500 yen more than the final seconds bidder, but of course everyone has a limit...


Most of the auctions end around 6:00am my time and I'm not willing to get up to check an auction's status except on rare occasions. Most of the time I'm glad I didn't make the effort but every once in a while something I was watching but didn't bid on, expecting it to be bid up, slips by for an amazingly low amount.


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## CitizenPromaster

Hmm yes your timezone is not ideal. Most auctions end around 10 pm Japan time, which for me during DST is +7, otherwise +8, so either way in the afternoon, which is pretty convenient for me. I can't think of many watches I would get up at 6 am for! I would just put in my maximum bid and hope for the best.


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## CitizenPromaster

Today I was bidding on a watch that started at 1 yen, and it was only at 31 yen or so, so I put in a bid above 10,000 yen to "assert my dominance" ;-) and Buyee didn't accept and said: "Please enter a bid below 10,000 yen." What kind of nonsense is that? So I entered 9,999 yen and someone else bid a few times until my bid was at 3,850 yen, and then I was allowed to bid above 10,000 yen. Strange policy. Maybe somekind of safety against typing errors, to avoid a bid with too many digits? So you can't accidentally bid 100,000 yen on a 1,000 yen item when you meant 10,000 yen?


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## Triku

After six emails with Buyee I have managed to get my packages sent with three watches. I do not know if it is in general or only for shipments to Spain but shipments have been delayed a lot.


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## Lepdiggums

CitizenPromaster said:


> Hmm yes your timezone is not ideal. Most auctions end around 10 pm Japan time, which for me during DST is +7, otherwise +8, so either way in the afternoon, which is pretty convenient for me. I can't think of many watches I would get up at 6 am for! I would just put in my maximum bid and hope for the best.


Wow, that's an awesome time of the day??
For me its 1am or 2am in the morning????? if its a popular auction it can keep going for another 20 or so minutes???

I tried the snipe bid once and only miss out by a few dollars ?? never again!!!

Also after my current experience on yahoo jp using buyee, I'm keeping away from sellers with feedback under 40, even if they are selling my dream watch ???? as the refund process takes is a very long time!!!!!!!!!


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## aafanatic

@Lepdiggums We have no idea how high the other snipes went, they just stop after they exceed the second highest bidder, in this case, you. I usually snipe the highest amount I would feel good about spending on the watch in question and let the chips fall where they may

I just won an auction for what appears to be a really nice CC9025-51E Titanium Navihawk in DLC I sniped at $573 and prayed that someone out bid me, because it should sell for more, but I woke up today with a winning bid of $447. (Photos are from Buyee)


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## jvspin

That Navihawk looks nice. Has anyone else noticed that the watches coming from Japan are usually in better condition than the descriptions would suggest? I'm usually pleasantly surprised when I see them in the flesh.


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## CitizenPromaster

@aafanatic I saw that one and thought of you, but I thought your budget was spent getting the gold one!
@jvspin They list most things as junk just so they can add No Claim No Return (NCNR). I especially love the "if you are nervous please refrain from bidding"!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> Today I was bidding on a watch that started at 1 yen, and it was only at 31 yen or so, so I put in a bid above 10,000 yen to "assert my dominance" ;-) and Buyee didn't accept and said: "Please enter a bid below 10,000 yen." What kind of nonsense is that? So I entered 9,999 yen and someone else bid a few times until my bid was at 3,850 yen, and then I was allowed to bid above 10,000 yen. Strange policy. Maybe somekind of safety against typing errors, to avoid a bid with too many digits? So you can't accidentally bid 100,000 yen on a 1,000 yen item when you meant 10,000 yen?


The watch I was bidding on was a 2901. It took them until the final day to outbid me, and when I immediately put in a second "dominance" bid, they tried feeling me out with a few small steps, but they gave up, and no bids arrived in the last minute! You might think, "that watch just wasn't worth it", and that is certainly the reality for the other bidders today, but what I ended up paying is not much at all. Remember my overview for the 2901?










The last two working ones sold for over 30,000 yen, now I got a working one for 19,111 yen! Was that luck? Was everyone out of money, already sleeping (it ended rather late), or more interested in another watch? Or does my strategy actually work, and did people quit so they don't get in a bidding war and regret their highest bid made in the heat of battle? We will never know, but I walked away with a working 2901 ;-)

I also won another auction today, without any opposition, because it was a junk pocket watch haha.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Meanwhile, everyone is throwing money at the umptieth Chronometer! Yeah, this example looks really nice, but as I said in the Vintage thread, you get so much more bang for your buck with other vintage Citizens. Oh well, let them fight over the Chronometers, that keeps the other watches cheap for the rest of us!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

After everyone was done throwing money at it:


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Scratched glass? Stained dial? Special price for you!










I'd rather have this first mechanical The Citizen from 2010, but both are too expensive for me!


----------



## aafanatic

@CitizenPromaster Thanks for all of this! I love this thread This is news worth reading Is it wormy to not share what I'm bidding on until after the close of auction? I don't want the bidding between two western WIS


----------



## CitizenPromaster

aafanatic said:


> @CitizenPromaster Thanks for all of this! I love this thread This is news worth reading Is it wormy to not share what I'm bidding on until after the close of auction? I don't want the bidding between two western WIS


I didn't post which watch I was bidding on until I had won it either  I don't think anyone here is after the same watches as I am, but it's better not to risk it


----------



## georgefl74

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'd rather have this first mechanical The Citizen from 2010, but both are too expensive for me!
> 
> View attachment 15872424


That one was a grail of sorts for awhile but I'm seeing Citizen has started churning out new high-end mechanicals so I am holding on to my money for the inevitable automatic Diver.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

georgefl74 said:


> That one was a grail of sorts for awhile but I'm seeing Citizen has started churning out new high-end mechanicals so I am holding on to my money for the inevitable automatic Diver.


You mean like these?
** NEW and UPCOMING Citizen Watches ** | Page 25 | WatchUSeek Watch Forums

I don't think a Caliber 0200 Diver is in the works, so this is probably as high-end as it gets. Sales have started by the way: プロマスター | シチズンウオッチ　オフィシャルサイト ［CITIZEN-シチズン］


----------



## georgefl74

CitizenPromaster said:


> You mean like these?
> ** NEW and UPCOMING Citizen Watches ** | Page 25 | WatchUSeek Watch Forums
> 
> I don't think a Caliber 0200 Diver is in the works, so this is probably as high-end as it gets. Sales have started by the way: プロマスター | シチズンウオッチ　オフィシャルサイト ［CITIZEN-シチズン］


These baby Orcas look cute. Hadn't seen them before, I'll hold out for something smaller though, 46mm is somewhat past my comfort zone.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

The Yahoo Japan Auction crowd is still under the illusion that you can score a deal if you pretend to ignore the watch and then bid last minute. There was a very filthy vintage automatic Citizen Crystal Date just sitting there for 500 yen, nothing happening even until a few hours before the end. Now I check how it ended, and it has sold for 25,222 yen after 26 bids. Silly people...


----------



## Ziptie

CitizenPromaster said:


> The Yahoo Japan Auction crowd is still under the illusion that you can score a deal if you pretend to ignore the watch and then bid last minute.
> ...
> 
> Silly people...


I read an Econ paper indicating everyone waiting on bidding can keep the ultimate price down by reducing the chances of a bidding war. Consider it an example of the potential buyers conspiring against the seller.

Of course the auto extension reduces that a bit. But still, if all of the competitive bidding happens in minutes or hours instead of days, fewer folks will end up bidding and fewer will put in just one more (or 5) higher bid, so ultimately the sale price may not go as high.

If it was purely rational and everyone simply put in their max it wouldn't matter, but that's not how psychology works.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Ziptie said:


> I read an Econ paper indicating everyone waiting on bidding can keep the ultimate price down by reducing the chances of a bidding war. Consider it an example of the potential buyers conspiring against the seller.
> 
> Of course the auto extension reduces that a bit. But still, if all of the competitive bidding happens in minutes or hours instead of days, fewer folks will end up bidding and fewer will put in just one more (or 5) higher bid, so ultimately the sale price may not go as high.
> 
> If it was purely rational and everyone simply put in their max it wouldn't matter, but that's not how psychology works.


Well I can't proof anything so I will just suffice by saying I repectfully disagree 
Either way, I think (I hope) I am ready to quit Yahoo Japan Auction. Nothing good can come from buying more watches! I'm very happy with my spoils so far, and you gotta quit while you're ahead, right?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> @jvspin I think it's time for an intervention...
> I have just bought my first Yahoo Auction watch this week, lord have mercy





jvspin said:


> The first of many I'm sure! I bought my first about 3 1/2 years ago. I think I'm about tapped out and ready to pass the baton to you .


How many have you bought since?


----------



## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> How many have you bought since?


The intervention didn't happen.  Probably added over twenty, but the price I'm willing to pay has dropped.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

jvspin said:


> The intervention didn't happen.  Probably added over twenty, but the price I'm willing to pay has dropped.


Hahahaha you passed the baton on to me and then got three more batons.


----------



## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> Hahahaha you passed the baton on to me and then got three more batons.


It's a sickness I tell ya, a sickness...
Just love hunting for treasures. Sometimes I wonder if I'm part dragon, hoarding all these bright shiny objects.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

So my three items have arrived at the Buyee warehouse. The domestic shipping fees were as follows:
pre-war Citizen: 1,010 yen
pocket watch Citizen: 1,150 yen
Promaster Citizen: 210 yen (was it next door to them or what?)

So for two of the packages the domestic shipping is half the cost of the 2,200 yen EMS international shipping. Is the domestic shipping expensive or is the international shipping cheap? Well a domestic package in The Netherlands will cost you about "950 yen", so actually the international shipping is pretty cheap, even when Dutch customs charges 21% VAT on the international shipping costs.

So I was ready to consolidate my package, and then Buyee throws a coupon for 3,000 yen at Mercari my way. There are MANY items there that cost less than 3,000 yen! Even countless Citizen watches! Obviously there are also a lot of Citizens there that cost more than 3,000 yen, and after a very long search I found the first Attesa, and 3,000 yen is a nice discount! It doesn't fit my wrist, but it's a titanium milestone Citizen for my collection, and a very fitting "final" purchase from Japan! So thank you Buyee, I would have never found it otherwise, because I don't scan Mercari.

By the way, for those who don't know, Yahoo Japan Auction is mostly pawnshops and traders, whilst Mercari has a lot of private sellers. That can mean you can find some hidden gems, like I did, but I've also seen watches for which they ask a lot more than you can expect to pay when bidding starts at 1 yen, because the private seller remembers what he paid for it new! For example, someone has a 2901 for sale and he is asking 47,500 yen. It looks to be in great condition and I think it is a fair price, but as I've shown in post #174, they go for a lot less at Yahoo Japan Auction, fortunately for me!


----------



## aafanatic

CitizenPromaster said:


> a very fitting "final" purchase from Japan!


@CitizenPromaster Congratulations on your "final" purchase from Japan. I will tell Japan to stop selling to you

I was out bid this morning on the CC9023-13X (more than $600) But @Dxnnis reminded me that I already have a CC7014-82E waiting for me


----------



## CitizenPromaster

aafanatic said:


> @CitizenPromaster Congratulations on your "final" purchase from Japan. I will tell Japan to stop selling to you


Please do.


> I was out bid this morning on the CC9023-13X (more than $600) But @Dxnnis reminded me that I already have a CC7014-82E waiting for me


You gotta have some prey left to hunt, right?

Am I the only one getting these juicy coupons? Up to 3,000 yen off international shipping (which in my case was 2,200 yen) and 3,000 yen off at Mercari on ANY purchase? It makes no sense. They've just earned 3 x 1,000 yen in fees (which is not 100% profit), and then they give me 3,000 yen back on the next purchase! I don't think they've made any money off me because of these coupons.


----------



## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> Please do.
> 
> You gotta have some prey left to hunt, right?
> 
> Am I the only one getting these juicy coupons? Up to 3,000 yen off international shipping (which in my case was 2,200 yen) and 3,000 yen off at Mercari on ANY purchase? It makes no sense. They've just earned 3 x 1,000 yen in fees (which is not 100% profit), and then they give me 3,000 yen back on the next purchase! I don't think they've made any money off me because of these coupons.


No coupons from Zenmarket for me, but charge for each item is 300yen with no additional charges to consolidate shipping, etc.. Packing has been great with each item individually bubble wrapped and labled with their auction reference number.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

jvspin said:


> No coupons from Zenmarket for me, but charge for each item is 300yen with no additional charges to consolidate shipping, etc.. Packing has been great with each item individually bubble wrapped and labled with their auction reference number.


Well 300 yen *seems* very little considering shipping insurance is included as well as package consolidation. Buyee charges 300 yen as Buying Fee (BF), 200 as Payment Fee (PF) (I think this goes to Paypal, since Paypal doesn't charge me anything), another 500 yen for inspection and insurance (SP) (this is called the Standard Plan but it is optional) and Package Consolidation (PC) is 500 yen for two packages and 1000 yen for 3 or more packages. Protective packaging is also an optional extra, but I've had no complaints about the "normal" packaging. Let me actually calculate if I made them any money.

So far I've paid them in fees
Watch 1 & 2 (300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP + 300 BF + 200 PF + 500 PC): 2,000 yen
Watch 3 (300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP): 1,000 yen
Watch 4 (300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP): 1,000 yen
Watch 5, 6, 7 & 8 (300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP + 300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP + 300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP + 300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP + 1,000 PC): 5,000 yen
Total fees: 9,000 yen

The coupons I've used:
Free international shipping -/- 2,200 yen
Discount at Mercari -/- 3,000 yen
Total discounts: 5,200 yen

I don't think Buyee gets to keep the Payment Fee, and besides Zenmarket charges a deposit fee (3.5% of the transaction amount), so if I take the Payment Fees out, that is total fees of 9,000 -/- 1,600 = 7,400 yen turnover for Buyee, of which they gave me back 5,200 yen, which leaves 2,200 yen turnover on 8 purchases, averaging to 275 per purchase. For that 275 yen they've contacted the seller, paid the seller, inspected the package, stored it, consolidated it, and then arranged international shipping and gave it to Japan Post. Plus all the overhead costs!

Sorry for all that, I have a Bachelor of Business Administration degree so it's the nature of the beast, but the takeaway is that in my specific case Buyee is operating at an even lower rate than Zenmarket, 275 yen vs 300 yen.

But here is the kicker. I paid 1,600 yen in Payment Fees, but if I had to pay 3,5% deposit fee, it would have been almost three times that, and I've bought relatively inexpensive watches! So that's how Zenmarket is charging you for the "free insurance" and "free consolidation", which of course is not free at all.

To clarify this, let's say you buy a The Citizen for 200,000 yen.
Buyee: 300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP = 1,000 yen
Zenmarket: 300 BF + (3.5% of 200,000 = 7.000) = 7,300 yen (!!!!!!!)

The deposit fee is a actually a little higher but that's a long explanation. The takeaway here is, Zenmarket is not as cheap as they make themselves out to be.


----------



## Triku

Mercari 3000yen coupon used, so another Citizen for me. I have 5 Citizen on their way home lol. It is time to stop for me.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Triku said:


> Mercari 3000yen coupon used, so another Citizen for me. I have 5 Citizen on their way home lol. It is time to stop for me.


Until the next juicy coupon anyway ;-)


----------



## Triku

Yes, I'm afraid that's what will happen. The last coupon I used was a 10% discount on Rakuten.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Triku said:


> Yes, I'm afraid that's what will happen. The last coupon I used was a 10% discount on Rakuten.


I would think Mercari and Rakuten are paying Buyee to give out these coupons to promote their platforms, otherwise Buyee is just throwing away money.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I'm tempted to wait out the 30 day free storage to see if another international shipping coupon is coming haha. At the risk of seeing more watches I want to buy and consolidate. Better to have all of it consolidated when the last watch arrives (tomorrow?) and then shipped out as soon as possible...


----------



## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> Well 300 yen *seems* very little considering shipping insurance is included as well as package consolidation. Buyee charges 300 yen as Buying Fee (BF), 200 as Payment Fee (PF) (I think this goes to Paypal, since Paypal doesn't charge me anything), another 500 yen for inspection and insurance (SP) (this is called the Standard Plan but it is optional) and Package Consolidation (PC) is 500 yen for two packages and 1000 yen for 3 or more packages. Protective packaging is also an optional extra, but I've had no complaints about the "normal" packaging. Let me actually calculate if I made them any money.
> 
> So far I've paid them in fees
> Watch 1 & 2 (300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP + 300 BF + 200 PF + 500 PC): 2,000 yen
> Watch 3 (300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP): 1,000 yen
> Watch 4 (300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP): 1,000 yen
> Watch 5, 6, 7 & 8 (300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP + 300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP + 300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP + 300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP + 1,000 PC): 5,000 yen
> Total fees: 9,000 yen
> 
> The coupons I've used:
> Free international shipping -/- 2,200 yen
> Discount at Mercari -/- 3,000 yen
> Total discounts: 5,200 yen
> 
> I don't think Buyee gets to keep the Payment Fee, and besides Zenmarket charges a deposit fee (3.5% of the transaction amount), so if I take the Payment Fees out, that is total fees of 9,000 -/- 1,600 = 7,400 yen turnover for Buyee, of which they gave me back 5,200 yen, which leaves 2,200 yen turnover on 8 purchases, averaging to 275 per purchase. For that 275 yen they've contacted the seller, paid the seller, inspected the package, stored it, consolidated it, and then arranged international shipping and gave it to Japan Post. Plus all the overhead costs!
> 
> Sorry for all that, I have a Bachelor of Business Administration degree so it's the nature of the beast, but the takeaway is that in my specific case Buyee is operating at an even lower rate than Zenmarket, 275 yen vs 300 yen.
> 
> But here is the kicker. I paid 1,600 yen in Payment Fees, but if I had to pay 3,5% deposit fee, it would have been almost three times that, and I've bought relatively inexpensive watches! So that's how Zenmarket is charging you for the "free insurance" and "free consolidation", which of course is not free at all.
> 
> To clarify this, let's say you buy a The Citizen for 200,000 yen.
> Buyee: 300 BF + 200 PF + 500 SP = 1,000 yen
> Zenmarket: 300 BF + (3.5% of 200,000 = 7.000) = 7,300 yen (!!!!!!!)
> 
> The deposit fee is a actually a little higher but that's a long explanation. The takeaway here is, Zenmarket is not as cheap as they make themselves out to be.


Thanks so much for the detailed breakdown! Do you notice any currency conversion fees with Paypal or poor conversion rates? I noticed Paypal exchange rates were higher than my bank, though I don't remember the exact amount.

Here is a tale of two shipments and another long explanatiion. 

tl:dr Zenmarket may be the better value for multiple low cost purchases. Buyee may be the better value if they have promotions and for higher cost purchases.

Shipment 1) I bought 11 watches from different sellers at an average price of 5100yen (B) with a 300yen buying fee (BF). Local shipping average was 750yen (LS) and international shipping (surface) was 2200yen (IS). All charges subject to a 3.5% deposit fee (DF). My fees were:

Zenmarket
3300yen BF + 1960yen BDF + 116yen BFDF + 290yen LSDF + 77yen ISDF = 5743yen = 522yen/watch

Buyee
3300yen BF + 2200yen PF + 5500yen SP + 1000yen PC = 12000yen = 1090yen/watch

free shipping = -2200yen = 9800yen = 890yen/watch
free shipping + Mercari promo = -5200yen = 6800yen = 618yen/watch

Shipment 2) I bought 3 watches from different sellers at an average price of 49,140yen (B) with a 300yen buying fee (BF). Local shipping average was 890yen and international shipping (DHL) was 4517yen. All charges subject to a 3.5% deposit fee. My fees were:

Zenmarket
900yen BF + 5160yen BDF + 32yen BFDF + 93yen LSDF + 158yen ISDF = 6185yen = 2062yen/watch

Buyee
900yen BF + 600yen PF + 1500yen SP + 1000yen PC = 4000yen = 1333yen/watch

free shipping = -2200yen = 1800yen = 600yen/watch
free shipping + Mercari promo = -5200yen = -1200yen = -400yen/watch !!! (if I had only known)

Thanks again for your analysis and It can pay to be a smart shopper.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

The exchange rate conversion is done by Buyee, so I pay Buyee in Euro (€) through Paypal and Paypal just charges my Dutch bank account (€) without fees.

Buyee might make a little money on the exchange rate, but it's nothing major, as you can see in below example for today's rates.

Current Buyee exchange rate: 1 Euro = 125.88 yen
Current GWK Travelex exchange rate: 1 Euro = 115.08 yen
Current *mid-market *rate on XE.com: 1 Euro = 132.24 yen

I don't know how buy rates generally relate to mid-market rates, but as you can see the rate Buyee offers is way better than what GWK offers consumers.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

jvspin said:


> tl:dr Zenmarket may be the better value for multiple low cost purchases. Buyee may be the better value if they have promotions and for higher cost purchases.


I think that is what it comes down to. Also, if you use Buyee you don't get stuck with unused deposits. After the initial setup at Paypal and Buyee, I can literally purchase with one click.


jvspin said:


> Thanks again for your analysis and It can pay to be a smart shopper.


My pleasure!


----------



## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> Also, if you use Buyee you don't get stuck with unused deposits. After the initial setup at Paypal and Buyee, I can literally purchase with one click.


I think this is an important difference, especially for higher priced watches. At Zenmarket you have to put the money in your account before you can bid so you've already incurred a 3.5% fee. I've done this and not won the auction. Then what was I to do with the money? 
I don't know if there is an additional fee for withdrawing the money.

They give you 20,000 yen credit so it doesn't matter as much with the lower cost watches.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> I wonder what the limit is for other proxy services. I did not expect this to ever apply to a vintage Citizen!


I see one very costly "benefit" to Zenmarket. Buyee doesn't allow you to bid higher than 900,000 yen. I assume you can deposit as much as you like with Zenmarket, so you can even bid on multimillion yen items (including cars), though you will be paying XX,000 yen as a deposit fee!


----------



## aafanatic

aafanatic said:


> @CitizenPromaster Congratulations on your "final" purchase from Japan. I will tell Japan to stop selling to you
> 
> I was out bid this morning on the CC9023-13X (more than $600) But @Dxnnis reminded me that I already have a CC7014-82E waiting for me


This just in from Buyee: Titanium Navihawk of the "slightly loose bezel" variety I can get a new case from COA for $425 I already have the new bracelet (not shown)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

My Mercari purchase has arrived at Buyee. I guess Buyee works on Saturdays? Anyway, I wasn't charged any domestic shipping fee, which I was expecting, because I saw a sales page where there was a message in red that the purchaser would have to pay for the domestic shipping fee, which implies that at Mercari the seller pays for domestic shipping unless stated otherwise.










I can't consolidate yet though, because there is a cheap pre-war parts watch that I want to add to this "final" haul ;-) It has the same movement as the pre-war Citizen I just bought, and I already know that watch will need an overhaul to operate normally, so I think it's wise to have a donor watch in case some parts turn out to be broken.

Still got 18 days of free storage left on the first package, so plenty of time to make more "final" purchases lol


----------



## CitizenPromaster

OK, I got the pre-war parts watch, even though there was some competition. Now let's hope I don't find more excuses to delay the consolidation ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

An unused, full DLC F950 Attesa for under 80,000 yen, now that is a steal. The list price is 253,000 yen!








Guess I'm not the only one that thinks GPS watches are overpriced (especially the Seiko offerings). Besides, in Japan they have two RC towers, so GPS has little benefit.


----------



## Triku

CitizenPromaster said:


> An unused, full DLC F950 Attesa for under 80,000 yen, now that is a steal. The list price is 253,000 yen!
> View attachment 15888911
> 
> Guess I'm not the only one that thinks GPS watches are overpriced (especially the Seiko offerings). Besides, in Japan they have two RC towers, so GPS has little benefit.


And GPS watches are big, 44-44,5mm and 15mm. 
The AT8181 are RC and 42x11mm.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Triku said:


> And GPS watches are big, 44-44,5mm and 15mm.
> The AT8181 are RC and 42x11mm.


Yes, there's that too. Though @aafanatic doesn't seem to mind the size ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

The final package has arrived at Buyee so I have applied for package consolidation of 5 packages. They still have 1.5 hours left in their business day, let's see if they make it! Either way, I should be able to have it shipped tomorrow, and then we'll find out if Japan Post is still jammed!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Another coupon, but I won't be using this one.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

It's just past 5 am here. Buyee has just finished consolidating my package, so I got out of bed to pay for the shipping since it is just past noon in Japan and this way it will probably be shipped at the end of their business day. The total for the domestic shipping of the 5 packages came to 2,740 yen. After consolidation the package weight is 1,200 g which came to 3,650 yen with EMS, and whilst FedEx was 2,710 yen, I've never used them before, and at least I know what to expect with Customs etc with EMS. I'm looking at a Customs bill (VAT + handling costs) of about €90, and I just paid €58.26 for the consolidation fee and domestic and international shipping fees, which was 7,390 yen, which gives an exhange rate of 1 euro = 126.85 yen, which is better than last week's rate.

I'm also just ahead of this:



> *Notice of change in international shipping fees due to additional fees for EMS packages for specific areas beginning from June 2021*
> The international shipping fee for EMS packages will change starting June 1, 2021.
> This price change is due to a Japan Post price revision, which offers EMS services.
> 
> Areas subject to additional fees:
> Zone 2 (Oceania, North and Central America, Middle East, Europe)
> 
> Please refer to the information table of the following link for more information.
> 
> 
> https://www.post.japanpost.jp/notification/pressrelease/2021/00_honsha/0415_01_02.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> For additional details, please refer to this notice from Japan Post.
> 
> 
> https://www.post.japanpost.jp/notification/pressrelease/2021/00_honsha/0415_01_01.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> This change relates to packages that are currently being shipped to our warehouse and packages that we are currently holding in storage.
> We deliver at the prices before and after the change according to the schedule below. Please confirm the following information in advance.
> 
> [Delivery at the price of EMS packages before the change]
> <Packages that will be sent to our warehouse from now on>
> Packages registered on customer's My Page on May 31st, 2021 Japan time and processed for payment of international shipping fees.
> 
> It usually takes 1 business day from the arrival of your package to the time it is registered on your My Page. Please keep this in mind when making your purchase.
> For packages that require customer confirmation or contain items that are prohibited from shipping overseas
> It takes 2 working days from the arrival of the package to its verification. Please take this into consideration when you are placing an order.
> 
> <Packages in storage>
> Packages processed for international shipping by May 31st, 2021 Japan time.
> 
> [Delivery at the changed shipping fee for EMS packages]
> Package processed after June 1st, 2021 Japan time with payment of international shipping fees confirmed.
> 
> We apologize for any inconvenience caused by the change in shipping costs and thank you for your understanding.


Back to bed now, to dream of my loot!


----------



## Lepdiggums

CitizenPromaster said:


> It's just past 5 am here. Buyee has just finished consolidating my package, so I got out of bed to pay for the shipping since it is just past noon in Japan and this way it will probably be shipped at the end of their business day. The total for the domestic shipping of the 5 packages came to 2,740 yen. After consolidation the package weight is 1,200 g which came to 3,650 yen with EMS, and whilst FedEx was 2,710 yen, I've never used them before, and at least I know what to expect with Customs etc with EMS. I'm looking at a Customs bill (VAT + handling costs) of about €90, and I just paid €58,26 for the consolidation fee and domestic and international shipping fees, which was 7,390 yen, which gives an exhange rate of 1 euro = 126.85 yen, which is better than last week's rate.
> 
> I'm also just ahead of this:
> 
> Back to bed now, to dream of my loot!


?? I can't wait to see the loot bag??


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Well I got up early for nothing, it doesn't look like it shipped today...


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Patience is a virtue, and my package is finally here. No extra protective packaging, but look for yourself.








Two of the watches came in boxes and they re-used them, three of the watches probably came in letter packs and they put those in labeled envelops.








Of course they were wrapped in the usual stuff, also the boxed watches.








So again, not that risky to not opt for extra protective packaging. The only thing that bugs me is that bracelet watches don't get anything inside the bracelet so the bracelet can theoretically rub on itself and the caseback during transport.

And what is inside the plastic? You guys already know that ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> Judging by your info, Buyee definitely seems more expensive than zenmarket, but I never bothered to look for alternatives to Buyee and it was the only one I'd heard of. *But I don't plan on making this a regular thing, though I might make an exception if a watch is really cheap. I'd like to get my hands on the first Citizen Attesa that was discussed in the Titanium thread recently, but it could be many months before one comes up for sale, and even if it does the question is if I will notice.* I scored my kind of grail watch though (and a bonus watch), so hopefully that will scratch my JDM itch for a while. The two packages are being consolidated now, hopefully I can have it shipped tomorrow, and with any luck it will be with me end of next week. It is kind of surreal that I will have it in my hands/on my wrist!


Well it did become a pretty regular thing, but most watches I bought were not very expensive. And as you might have seen in the Titanium thread, I did actually find that first Citizen Attesa!

I'm very happy with the watches I've found and bought, and I have very few cravings left, so I will just keep browsing the auctions as a hobby, and hope nothing tempts me ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I'm not the only one who thinks the PMP56-2901 is undervalued. This serial number sold for 11,000 yen and has now been relisted for 29,800 yen. I doubt they changed the battery (which was almost dead), and they couldn't even get the model number right!








Someone else also bought and resold a 2901 in a box that was not working, but while he put in a very high buyout price, he also allowed normal bidding, and the highest bid ended up being exactly what it sold for previously, so perhaps he put in the highest bid himself with another account.


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## georgefl74

Obvious fake Citizen alert from numerous vendors. Beware









CITIZEN 300m Professional Diver's Eco-drive ... - ヤフオク!


CITIZEN 300m Professional Diver's Eco-drive 美品 になります。動作確認済発送はヤマト便になります。送料は一律、700円になります。ノークレーム、ノーリターンでお願い致します。



page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp












CITIZEN 300m Professional Diver's Eco-drive 美品 - ヤフオク!


CITIZEN 300m Professional Diver's Eco-drive 美品 になります。動作確認済発送はヤマト便になります。送料は一律、700円になります。ノークレーム、ノーリターンでお願い致します。



page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp












シチズン/ダイバーズ CITIZEN 300m Professional... - ヤフオク!


試着した程度です。思ってたよりやや小さかったので出品致します。ご検討下さい。ノークレーム、ノーリターンでお願いします。



page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp


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## CitizenPromaster

I noticed them too, but I figured none of us here would fall for those haha. I'm surprised no one is reporting them and taking them offline though.


----------



## M.Mikey

georgefl74 said:


> Obvious fake Citizen alert from numerous vendors. Beware
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CITIZEN 300m Professional Diver's Eco-drive ... - ヤフオク!
> 
> 
> CITIZEN 300m Professional Diver's Eco-drive 美品 になります。動作確認済発送はヤマト便になります。送料は一律、700円になります。ノークレーム、ノーリターンでお願い致します。
> 
> 
> 
> page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CITIZEN 300m Professional Diver's Eco-drive 美品 - ヤフオク!
> 
> 
> CITIZEN 300m Professional Diver's Eco-drive 美品 になります。動作確認済発送はヤマト便になります。送料は一律、700円になります。ノークレーム、ノーリターンでお願い致します。
> 
> 
> 
> page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> シチズン/ダイバーズ CITIZEN 300m Professional... - ヤフオク!
> 
> 
> 試着した程度です。思ってたよりやや小さかったので出品致します。ご検討下さい。ノークレーム、ノーリターンでお願いします。
> 
> 
> 
> page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp


----------



## CitizenPromaster

2 new coupons popped up on my page:
Mercari Special! Buyee Service Fee FREE Coupon!
Yahoo! JAPAN Auction Special! Buyee Service Fee FREE Coupon!


----------



## journeyforce

aafanatic said:


> This just in from Buyee: Titanium Navihawk of the "slightly loose bezel" variety I can get a new case from COA for $425 I already have the new bracelet (not shown)


To be fair, it seems a lot of the Navihawk GPS watches had loose bezels when new. I remember looking at 10 of them at various macy's and other ADs when they were new and all of them had loose bezels to different degrees. The stainless steel model with the leather strap seems to have been the ones with the loosest bezels. Oddly enough the 3 i have bought as refurbs from official watch deals have tighter bezels. A lot of them probably were returned due to the bezel and Citizen fixed them


----------



## CitizenPromaster

More funny business. The top DLC U600 hasn't been getting a buyer for something like two months now with this opening price of 35,200 yen tax included, then another one pops up starting at 2,500 yen and in a few days it reaches almost the same amount. So 33,500 yen is acceptable but 35,200 yen isn't??? And yes, the condition is very similar.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I sold some collectibles with a nice little profit so I decided to spend the profit on another vintage Citizen pocket watch, and of course Buyee was there to enable me ;-)
No coupons this time, but there was no competition in the auction, so I'm pretty pleased with the price. I am gonna have to swallow the increased shipping costs, but hey, the buyer of my collectibles is paying for all of this ^_^


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Fortunately I wasn't allowed to bid on this auction (the seller doesn't want to ship it overseas, apparently not even via a proxy service), but to my surprise it didn't sell.


----------



## aafanatic

CitizenPromaster said:


> Fortunately I wasn't allowed to bid on this auction (the seller doesn't want to ship it overseas, apparently not even via a proxy service), but to my surprise it didn't sell.
> 
> View attachment 15985580


That's weird How can they block you from buying through a proxy? I just ordered a CC9020-54E Terrible pics, poor listing, no competition.

PROMASTER（プロマスター） エコ・ドライブGPS衛星電波時計 F900　シチズン
Total Amount
59,000 yen (US$552.25)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

aafanatic said:


> That's weird How can they block you from buying through a proxy? I just ordered a CC9020-54E Terrible pics, poor listing, no competition.
> 
> PROMASTER（プロマスター） エコ・ドライブGPS衛星電波時計 F900　シチズン
> Total Amount
> 59,000 yen (US$552.25)


I'm not sure how it works, I have this theory that Yahoo Japan allows for a setting that lets the proxy services know they can't bid on it. Or maybe Buyee looks for a keyword, like they do with for example "crocodile leather", for which export is forbidden. Or maybe it is a coincidence and the seller doesn't fit Buyee's requirements. Either way, the message I see is:


----------



## bloody watches

You are probably on the button when you say the seller doesn't fit Buyee's requirements, they probably have had some issues with him.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

There's now a Mercari competitor from Rakuten called Rakuma: Shop at Rakuma from Japan, and Buyee will ship your items worldwide! | Buyee


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Just had 5 packages consolidated and shipped out. I got pretty lucky on the domestic shipping fees this time, but the increased international shipping is tough to swallow. It's only 920 grams!


----------



## Ziptie

CitizenPromaster said:


> Just had 5 packages consolidated and shipped out. I got pretty lucky on the domestic shipping fees this time, but the increased international shipping is tough to swallow. It's only 920 grams!
> 
> View attachment 16011804


Still, under €8 each&#8230;


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## CitizenPromaster

Ziptie said:


> Still, under €8 each&#8230;


True, but now I'm almost obliged to buy multiple watches to split the shipping costs ;-) And remember, I'm also going to get hit with 21% VAT on the total value + 21% VAT on the international shipping fee.


----------



## yosukesan

CitizenPromaster said:


> There's now a Mercari competitor from Rakuten called Rakuma: Shop at Rakuma from Japan, and Buyee will ship your items worldwide! | Buyee


I do not recommend to use them. Lot's scammers or sellers without any knowledge of watches and generally more expensive then Yahoo Japan Auction.
For example, I was blocked just asking the dial is repainted in Mercari.

Mercari US is available now, they had UK, which is closed, as well in the past.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

yosukesan said:


> I do not recommend to use them. Lot's scammers or sellers without any knowledge of watches and generally more expensive then Yahoo Japan Auction.
> For example, I was blocked just asking the dial is repainted in Mercari.
> 
> Mercari US is available now, they had UK, which is closed, as well in the past.


I can imagine that to be true for popular models that attract scammers, but there are certainly a few interesting deals to be found on Mercari. I also noticed that private sellers value their watch higher than pawn shops on YJA, which makes sense, but again, there are a few interesting deals if you are looking for very specific watches.
Also, Buyee's Standard Plan eliminates most if not all of the risks for us as buyers.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I feel so dirty, I was in a tiny bidding war over a Seiko!!! Well, not really a Seiko, a pre-Seiko pocket watch from Seikosha, when their main brand was Empire. The reason I'm confessing this terrible sin in the Citizen forum, is because I found a nice way to annoy this 100 yen last minute bidder. Everytime in the last 5 minutes he bid 100 yen higher than me. I was at 3,400, he bid 3,500, I bid 3,600, he bid 3,700, then I was fed up, so I put in a maximum bid of 3,900, which first became a bid of 3,800, and then in the last minutes he bid 3,900 and my bid of 3,900 yen was entered. I then immediately raised my maximum bid to 4,000 yen, and in the last minutes he bid 4,000 yen and my bid of 4,000 yen was entered. So I raised the maximum bid to 4,100 yen, but he already gave up and I won the auction for 4,000 yen. I like to think he gave up because he couldn't get away with 200 yen (my 100 yen + his 100 yen) increases anymore haha.

This "countertactic" could still work at higher prices, when someone is bidding 500 yen at a time just before the auction ends, just bid 1000 yen higher once and when the other person bids 500 yen higher, immediately raise your maximum bid by another 500 yen, that way he has to change his tactic and if you are lucky he will give up.

I wanted this Seikosha Empire to go with my growing collecting of prewar Citizen pocket watches, and this one has a nicer movement than most Empire pocket watches, so I was determined to get it.


----------



## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm not sure how it works, I have this theory that Yahoo Japan allows for a setting that lets the proxy services know they can't bid on it. Or maybe Buyee looks for a keyword, like they do with for example "crocodile leather", for which export is forbidden. Or maybe it is a coincidence and the seller doesn't fit Buyee's requirements. Either way, the message I see is:
> View attachment 15986425


I think you are right about the keyword thing. I wanted to buy a Casio IDS-160J-8JF wall clock it was solar with a backup lithium battery that would run the clock for 5 years.

Buyee would not let me buy it because in the description it had lithium battery listed and Buyee will not let you buy lithium battery items. (despite allowing the buying of G-Shocks (which a lot have lithium batteries)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

journeyforce said:


> I think you are right about the keyword thing. I wanted to buy a Casio IDS-160J-8JF wall clock it was solar with a backup lithium battery that would run the clock for 5 years.
> 
> Buyee would not let me buy it because in the description it had lithium battery listed and Buyee will not let you buy lithium battery items. (despite allowing the buying of G-Shocks (which a lot have lithium batteries)


They certainly scan for keywords, it's also not possible to buy Zippo lighters. Probably anything that could be considered a fire hazard (like a lithium battery).

So no Promaster Zippo for me :-( I don't smoke, but it's a cool piece!


----------



## Lepdiggums

CitizenPromaster said:


> They certainly scan for keywords, it's also not possible to buy Zippo lighters. Probably anything that could be considered a fire hazard (like a lithium battery).
> 
> So no Promaster Zippo for me :-( I don't smoke, but it's a cool piece!
> 
> View attachment 16043890


It's so cool, I would start smoking, while wearing my 1000m sea monster🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Ziptie

CitizenPromaster said:


> They certainly scan for keywords, it's also not possible to buy Zippo lighters. Probably anything that could be considered a fire hazard (like a lithium battery).
> 
> So no Promaster Zippo for me :-( I don't smoke, but it's a cool piece!
> 
> View attachment 16043890


I wonder if one of the competing services might let you buy it.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Ziptie said:


> I wonder if one of the competing services might let you buy it.


They might, but it's 7,000 yen, and I'd rather buy another prewar Citizen pocket watch for 7,000 yen.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Anyone looking for a Robert Swan in box? This is your chance: Citizen Promaster Robert Swann Super Rare /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Getting the "basic" F100, or even a special edition F100, is also very affordable these days:
















I'm trying really hard to resist though!


----------



## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> Getting the "basic" F100, or even a special edition F100, is also very affordable these days:
> View attachment 16057491
> 
> View attachment 16057492
> 
> I'm trying really hard to resist though!


Buyee is great for the things I bought from it. But watches (at least the watches I want) from yahoo japan are not really that much lower then getting them on eBAY.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

journeyforce said:


> Buyee is great for the things I bought from it. But watches (*at least the watches I want*) from yahoo japan are not really that much lower then getting them on eBAY.


I think you hit the nail on the head there. Many of the watches we (Buyee addicts) want are so obscure and unpopular that they are not on eBay.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

But even for the F100 eBay is not competitive, and you still end up buying from Japan, but you give your money to middle men who take your money and then buy the watch they are "offering".


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I'm pretty annoyed with Buyee right now. I consolidated 10 packages, each weighing 100 to 200 grams, since they only contain one watch. After consolidation, the package supposedly weighs 9,330 grams, almost 10 kg!!!! So I contact Buyee's Customer Service, expecting to get a stupid reply from someone who is not Japanese, and indeed, some Indian guy gives me the standard reply that packaging can add weight. Can't they use their effin brain???? No amount of packaging makes 2 kg of watches weigh 10 kg. Some Japanese warehouse guy entered the wrong number in the system and now I have to get them to correct it by bargaining with some callcenter guy in India.









I'm switching to a different proxy service if they don't offer me some kind of compensation for the inconvenience.


----------



## 1386paul

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm pretty annoyed with Buyee right now. I consolidated 10 packages, each weighing 100 to 200 grams, since they only contain one watch. After consolidation, the package supposedly weighs 9,330 grams, almost 10 kg!!!! So I contact Buyee's Customer Service, expecting to get a stupid reply from someone who is not Japanese, and indeed, some Indian guy gives me the standard reply that packaging can add weight. Can't they use their effin brain???? No amount of packaging makes 2 kg of watches weigh 10 kg. Some Japanese warehouse guy entered the wrong number in the system and now I have to get them to correct it by bargaining with some callcenter guy in India.
> View attachment 16067918
> 
> 
> I'm switching to a different proxy service if they don't offer me some kind of compensation for the inconvenience.


2kg of watches still makes me laugh.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm pretty annoyed with Buyee right now. I consolidated 10 packages, each weighing 100 to 200 grams, since they only contain one watch. After consolidation, the package supposedly weighs 9,330 grams, almost 10 kg!!!! So I contact Buyee's Customer Service, expecting to get a stupid reply from someone who is not Japanese, and indeed, some Indian guy gives me the standard reply that packaging can add weight. Can't they use their effin brain???? No amount of packaging makes 2 kg of watches weigh 10 kg. Some Japanese warehouse guy entered the wrong number in the system and now I have to get them to correct it by bargaining with some callcenter guy in India.
> 
> I'm switching to a different proxy service if they don't offer me some kind of compensation for the inconvenience.


Well Buyee finished "reconfirming the weight of the package", on a Saturday (I thought they didn't work on Saturday?), and the correct weight is... drum roll... 1,740 grams!!!
No compensation offered though, even though I would have paid 16,150 yen more for shipping if I hadn't doubted them!
9,330g -> EMS 21,600 yen
1,740g -> EMS 5,450 yen


----------



## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> Just had 5 packages consolidated and shipped out. I got pretty lucky on the domestic shipping fees this time, but the increased international shipping is tough to swallow. It's only 920 grams!


So for your entertainment, here is how I did on the domestic shipping this time.








So even with EMS and almost twice the weight, the international shipping is less than the total domestic shipping.

So if we include the consolidation fee, last time it was €61.57 for 5 items (4 watches and a silk pocket watch chain weighing nothing), which is €12,31 per item or €15.39 per watch.
This time it is €100.01 for 10 items, all of which are watches, which is of course €10 per watch.

Obviously it's wise to use all of the free 30 day storage period if you buy watches regularly, especially if you buy relatively inexpensive watches like I usually do. It might even be wise to pay the storage fee if you are at the end of your 30 days and you are planning on buying another watch in the next week. Another week of storage will likely only cost you 700 yen (100 yen/day).

Anyway, I got a little carried away with this 10 watch haul, but let's hope this satisfies my itch for a while haha. The 21% VAT on this haul should wake me from my buying craze too!

Imagine living in Japan and being able to buy everything on Yahoo with only domestic shipping and no import taxes...


----------



## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> So for your entertainment, here is how I did on the domestic shipping this time.
> View attachment 16071911
> 
> So even with EMS and almost twice the weight, the international shipping is less than the total domestic shipping.
> 
> So if we include the consolidation fee, last time it was €61.57 for 5 items (4 watches and a silk pocket watch chain weighing nothing), which is €12,31 per item or €15.39 per watch.
> This time it is €100.01 for 10 items, all of which are watches, which is of course €10 per watch.
> 
> Obviously it's wise to use all of the free 30 day storage period if you buy watches regularly, especially if you buy relatively inexpensive watches like I usually do. It might even be wise to pay the storage fee if you are at the end of your 30 days and you are planning on buying another watch in the next week. Another week of storage will likely only cost you 700 yen (100 yen/day).
> 
> Anyway, I got a little carried away with this 10 watch haul, but let's hope this satisfies my itch for a while haha. The 21% VAT on this haul should wake me from my buying craze too!
> 
> Imagine living in Japan and being able to buy everything on Yahoo with only domestic shipping and no import taxes...


I would be very upset as you are. The question is, would you find the same deals on other proxy service?

I have won two auctions from the same seller (one hour between them). The seller shipped them both at the same day, the first I already received, while the second is still (shipped). Both shipped within one hour apart and the first one was received three days ago! That is wierd for sure as they usually take one day to reach the warehouse.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> I would be very upset as you are. The question is, would you find the same deals on other proxy service?
> 
> I have won two auctions from the same seller (one hour between them). The seller shipped them both at the same day, the first I already received, while the second is still (shipped). Both shipped within one hour apart and the first one was received three days ago! That is wierd for sure as they usually take one day to reach the warehouse.


It is definitely strange that one of your packages hasn't arrived yet! If it takes more than a week I'd contact Customer Support about it.

I was indeed upset, but after some persuasion from my side, they did solve it pretty quickly, so I will let it slide. We've compared some of the proxy services in this thread, and for me what gives Buyee the edge is the ease of payment through Paypal.

Fees, shipping and VAT adds around 30% to the price when I buy things from Japan, but the fees charged by proxy services are only a small cost component compared to shipping and VAT, so I am still very thankful they exist, because what I buy from Yahoo/Mercari usually can't be sourced anywhere else.


----------



## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> It is definitely strange that one of your packages hasn't arrived yet! If it takes more than a week I'd contact Customer Support about it.
> 
> I was indeed upset, but after some persuasion from my side, they did solve it pretty quickly, so I will let it slide. We've compared some of the proxy services in this thread, and for me what gives Buyee the edge is the ease of payment through Paypal.
> 
> Fees, shipping and VAT adds around 30% to the price when I buy things from Japan, but the fees charged by proxy services are only a small cost component compared to shipping and VAT, so I am still very thankful they exist, because what I buy from Yahoo/Mercari usually can't be sourced anywhere else.


I will wait for Monday before I contact them. Glad they solved it quickly.

Payment and some of the items are not available on other proxies from my own experience, give it a plus that you get better prices (deals) on Buyee as well.

Thankfully I don't have to pay any VAT for imports less than 800$ (each). In case ot proxies or P.O boxes, I usually get away with it as the customs don't know the value of used products. If the VAT was applicable, it will be 10% in total (5% VAT and 5% Customs charge).

Indeed I am thankful too, some of my rare watches only are found there, with a good price.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> Payment and some of the items are not available on other proxies from my own experience, give it a plus that you get better prices (deals) on Buyee as well.


I have not looked at auctions via other proxies, but it's interesting to know that Buyee makes more items available. Still, some sellers don't allow any proxy bidding, like this one I saw today.









The seller writes (in Japanese):
_Temp Operating Product Sorry Notice.
If you do not understand Japanese, are a proxy bidder, cannot start trading within 3 days, or cannot make a deposit within 3 days from the start of trading, please refrain from bidding. Even if you win the bid, we will delete it. Also, if you are looking for new conditions or nervous about old watches, please do not bid._

I'm not sure what their problem is. Are they patriotic, and they want their watches to stay in Japan? I can't imagine that it's difficult to deal with Buyee, as they handle thousands of deals.


----------



## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> I have not looked at auctions via other proxies, but it's interesting to know that Buyee makes more items available. Still, some sellers don't allow any proxy bidding, like this one I saw today.
> 
> View attachment 16072251
> 
> The seller writes (in Japanese):
> _Temp Operating Product Sorry Notice.
> If you do not understand Japanese, are a proxy bidder, cannot start trading within 3 days, or cannot make a deposit within 3 days from the start of trading, please refrain from bidding. Even if you win the bid, we will delete it. Also, if you are looking for new conditions or nervous about old watches, please do not bid._
> 
> I'm not sure what their problem is. Are they patriotic, and they want their watches to stay in Japan? I can't imagine that it's difficult to deal with Buyee, as they handle thousands of deals.


What about using a Japanese P.O box? It will be interesting to know if that would work. I always use it for many countries that I can't ship from directly (because of the seller).


----------



## Ziptie

I just bought a non-Citizen watch on buyee. Am I still allowed to post about it here?

Hamilton khaki field pioneer H604550. Automatic even!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> What about using a Japanese P.O box? It will be interesting to know if that would work. I always use it for many countries that I can't ship from directly (because of the seller).


Then you really need to trust Google Translate haha. Also, I wouldn't know how to go about setting up a P.O. Box in Japan, and it would be a bit overkill for my shopping. ?
Also, many sellers want to be paid by Yahoo Easy Settlement, whatever that is, so you would need that too.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Ziptie said:


> I just bought a non-Citizen watch on buyee. Am I still allowed to post about it here?
> 
> Hamilton khaki field pioneer H604550. Automatic even!


You didn't also buy a couple of Citizens to combine the shipping???? I will try not to judge ?


----------



## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> Then you really need to trust Google Translate haha. Also, I wouldn't know how to go about setting up a P.O. Box in Japan, and it would be a bit overkill for my shopping. ?
> Also, many sellers want to be paid by Yahoo Easy Settlement, whatever that is, so you would need that too.


We have a service called Shop & Ship (provided by Aramex). They will give you around 30 P.O box around the world in most countries (Japan included), It is a very good service.

The Yahoo Easy Settlement won't be available though, PayPal is the way.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> We have a service called Shop & Ship (provided by Aramex). They will give you around 30 P.O box around the world in most countries (Japan included), It is a very good service.
> 
> The Yahoo Easy Settlement won't be available though, PayPal is the way.


As I said, some sellers demand Yahoo Easy Settlement, and others insist on a certain shipping agent that does cash on delivery, which I imagine is not compatibe with a P.O. Box. So I think Buyee is the easiest option.


----------



## journeyforce

Ziptie said:


> I just bought a non-Citizen watch on buyee. Am I still allowed to post about it here?
> 
> Hamilton khaki field pioneer H604550. Automatic even!


NO

You are now banned from the Citizen Forum, Please hand your accreditation back in at the front office as you are leaving......

Just kidding

It is a nice watch. Most watch companies cannot really pull off the coin edge bezel well but Hamilton seems to.

I believe as much info on Buyee is helpful to using it to buy items in japan.


----------



## journeyforce

I do have a Buyee question

I ordered a Seiko Melody clock with a Japanese day/date digital display. The analog clock part has a sweep second hand (like an electric clock). I ordered it though Bic Camera thru Buyee. I am wondering about spending the extra 1500 Yen to add extra padding to the clock for its trip to me in the USA. Has anybody bought something using Buyee where you opted for the extra packing protection? Do they remove the item from the vendor shipping box and put it in a bigger box? I have only gotten the extra protective packaging when I consolidated 3 items and they put it in a bigger box. But I have not bought the extra protective packing without consolidating.

Amazon's market place does have two Japan based sellers selling this clock but that still has to arrive from Japan and they give a estimate of mid to end of Sept where I will get it by next week once Buyee ships it out and even with all Buyee fees and shipping costs, the clock is still way cheaper then the one from the Amazon seller.

Thanks


----------



## ElGhurafiy

journeyforce said:


> I do have a Buyee question
> 
> I ordered a Seiko Melody clock with a Japanese day/date digital display. The analog clock part has a sweep second hand (like an electric clock). I ordered it though Bic Camera thru Buyee. I am wondering about spending the extra 1500 Yen to add extra padding to the clock for its trip to me in the USA. Has anybody bought something using Buyee where you opted for the extra packing protection? Do they remove the item from the vendor shipping box and put it in a bigger box? I have only gotten the extra protective packaging when I consolidated 3 items and they put it in a bigger box. But I have not bought the extra protective packing without consolidating.
> 
> Amazon's market place does have two Japan based sellers selling this clock but that still has to arrive from Japan and they give a estimate of mid to end of Sept where I will get it by next week once Buyee ships it out and even with all Buyee fees and shipping costs, the clock is still way cheaper then the one from the Amazon seller.
> 
> Thanks


Yes they do put it in a bigger box with extra protection from my experience. I have just consolidated 3 watches without the extra protection, lets hope that they at least have them padded from the original shipping.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Despite the much higher new price, I decided to go for EMS shipping again, but now 6 days later - which is how long the cheaper and slower AIR mail is supposed to take - there is still no sign of my package. I don't know if Japan Post or the Dutch Post is to blame, but the result is there is no benefit to EMS anymore, especially at double the price.

My last package arrived at Dutch customs after 4 days, which is acceptable, but even after I paid the VAT online, Customs waited another 4 or 5 days to forward it to me for no apparent reason, also negating the "speed" of EMS.

And I have more complaining to do haha. I decided to buy something from ecoworld2016 - one of the big pawn shops that I've instinctively avoided because they seem to put very little effort in their listings as a result perhaps of there being so many - and they somehow managed to let Buyee know that my watch had been shipped just *6 minutes* after me winning the auction, at 10 pm Japanese time no less! In my head I imagined they had a super sophisticated computer system that automatically generates shipping labels etc. and then let's Buyee know that the product has been shipped, but now 6 days later it still hasn't arrived at the Buyee warehouse! Now I have to wait the full 30 days before I can ask for a refund. But even if my watch shows up, I'm not buying from ecoworld2016 again, that's for sure. According to the negative reviews they never reply to any inquiry whatsoever, so I'm not even going to bother asking Buyee to chase after the watch until the 30 days are over, so I can just get my money back.


----------



## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> Despite the much higher new price, I decided to go for EMS shipping again, but now 6 days later - which is how long the cheaper and slower AIR mail is supposed to take - there is still no sign of my package. I don't know if Japan Post or the Dutch Post is to blame, but the result is there is no benefit to EMS anymore, especially at double the price.
> 
> My last package arrived at Dutch customs after 4 days, which is acceptable, but even after I paid the VAT online, Customs waited another 4 or 5 days to forward it to me for no apparent reason, also negating the "speed" of EMS.
> 
> And I have more complaining to do haha. I decided to buy something from ecoworld2016 - one of the big pawn shops that I've instinctively avoided because they seem to put very little effort in their listings as a result perhaps of there being so many - and they somehow managed to let Buyee know that my watch had been shipped just *6 minutes* after me winning the auction, at 10 pm Japanese time no less! In my head I imagined they had a super sophisticated computer system that automatically generates shipping labels etc. and then let's Buyee know that the product has been shipped, but now 6 days later it still hasn't arrived at the Buyee warehouse! Now I have to wait the full 30 days before I can ask for a refund. But even if my watch shows up, I'm not buying from ecoworld2016 again, that's for sure. According to the negative reviews they never reply to any inquiry whatsoever, so I'm not even going to bother asking Buyee to chase after the watch until the 30 days are over, so I can just get my money back.


I have found that they are also using EMS to ship items of buyers that pick the Buyee Air Service. I have been using the Buyee Air Service in the hopes they are shipping the items via DHL, UPS or Fedex like they said they would be using. The whole purpose of picking the Buyee Air Service was to not get EMS because I wanted to take the weak link (USPS) out of the equation but each one has been shipped via EMS.

So perhaps try getting the next watch/item shipped via Buyee Air Service. You might find that they shipped out via EMA and you saved some money in shipping costs.

I also have a head scratcher. i bought a new Seiko clock from Mercari Japan (the only way to get this as venders list it having a lithium battery and Buyee will not let you buy it if it says lithium in the description) it arrived quickly enough at the Buyee hub and was shipped out on the 23rd of Aug. The last i heard of it was on the 25th of Aug when tracking number shows "Dispatch from outward office of exchange" I am still waiting for it. I bought another clock and it was shipped out to me on 8/26/21. I got that clock this afternoon so despite both items being shipped via EMS, one item is still somewhere in Japan and one is with me.

Welcome to the world of international shipping


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Buyee Air Delivery Service was created for shipments to the USA (for reasons I won't get into), it doesn't exist for shipments to The Netherlands.


----------



## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> Despite the much higher new price, I decided to go for EMS shipping again, but now 6 days later - which is how long the cheaper and slower AIR mail is supposed to take - there is still no sign of my package. I don't know if Japan Post or the Dutch Post is to blame, but the result is there is no benefit to EMS anymore, especially at double the price.
> 
> My last package arrived at Dutch customs after 4 days, which is acceptable, but even after I paid the VAT online, Customs waited another 4 or 5 days to forward it to me for no apparent reason, also negating the "speed" of EMS.
> 
> And I have more complaining to do haha. I decided to buy something from ecoworld2016 - one of the big pawn shops that I've instinctively avoided because they seem to put very little effort in their listings as a result perhaps of there being so many - and they somehow managed to let Buyee know that my watch had been shipped just *6 minutes* after me winning the auction, at 10 pm Japanese time no less! In my head I imagined they had a super sophisticated computer system that automatically generates shipping labels etc. and then let's Buyee know that the product has been shipped, but now 6 days later it still hasn't arrived at the Buyee warehouse! Now I have to wait the full 30 days before I can ask for a refund. But even if my watch shows up, I'm not buying from ecoworld2016 again, that's for sure. According to the negative reviews they never reply to any inquiry whatsoever, so I'm not even going to bother asking Buyee to chase after the watch until the 30 days are over, so I can just get my money back.


Welcome back @CitizenPromaster

I bought from ecoworld2016 two weeks ago. I remember telling you earlier regarding the issue I had when I've won two biddings from them where they immediately shipped the items, one of which arrived the next day while the other after 7 days! I've contacted Buyee regarding this and the next day the item arrived at the warehouse, overall it was a mixed experience. In fact, I might win another two biddings today, would give them a second chance. Which sellers would you recommend on Buyee?

Note: As you mentioned, they don't include a lot of information regarding the watches, I wouldn't recommend buying junk items from them as they don't specify the issue. While the second watch was rated at 3-4 with (windshield scratches) it was honestly a very tiny scratch that most people won't notice (watch was overall in an excellent condition)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> Welcome back @CitizenPromaster
> 
> I bought from ecoworld2016 two weeks ago. I remember telling you earlier regarding the issue I had when I've won two biddings from them where they immediately shipped the items, one of which arrived the next day while the other after 7 days! I've contacted Buyee regarding this and the next day the item arrived at the warehouse, overall it was a mixed experience. In fact, I might win another two biddings today, would give them a second chance. Which sellers would you recommend on Buyee?
> 
> Note: As you mentioned, they don't include a lot of information regarding the watches, I wouldn't recommend buying junk items from them as they don't specify the issue. While the second watch was rated at 3-4 with (windshield scratches) it was honestly a very tiny scratch that most people won't notice (watch was overall in an excellent condition)


Very interesting to hear about your experience. The watch from ecoworld2016 did arrive today, after 7 days, same as your watch. I guess I could live with that, but not for 930 yen domestic shipping fee, which as I've shown in my overviews is on the high side. I knew this going in though, they list their shipping rates and they are high for all domestic destinations. I didn't check if this is because of their preferred delivery service or because of their location.


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## CitizenPromaster

As for which sellers I recommend... I seem to get the best or most interesting deals from the small pawn shops that don’t specialize in anything and have only a few watches for sale. Fortunately there are many of those!


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## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> Very interesting to hear about your experience. The watch from ecoworld2016 did arrive today, after 7 days, same as your watch. I guess I could live with that, but not for 930 yen domestic shipping fee, which as I've shown in my overviews is on the high side. I knew this going in though, they list their shipping rates and they are high for all domestic destinations. I didn't check if this is because of their preferred delivery service or because of their location.


I am usually fine with 7 days and 950 yen shipping IF the watch worth it and it was a good deal. It is weird as I mentioned that some items you receive the next day while others take time

I will post my second experience in case I won the auctions. They do list some good watches each week though.


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## CitizenPromaster

Well ecoworld2016 is in Chikusei, bang in the middle of Japan, and Buyee is too (Tokyo), so ecoworld2016 just uses one of the more expensive carriers, as can be seen below. Why the shipping time varies is still a mystery though. 








I do agree that they have a lot of interesting offerings, and I was bidding on two other watches, but those are already higher than I want to go.

Still I prefer the small shops, I get the feeling some Japanese buyers avoid them, which might result in lower bids, but that might be my imagination.


----------



## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> Well ecoworld2016 is in Chikusei, bang in the middle of Japan, and Buyee is too (Tokyo), so ecoworld2016 just uses one of the more expensive carriers, as can be seen below. Why the shipping time varies is still a mystery though.
> View attachment 16092631
> 
> I do agree that they have a lot of interesting offerings, and I was bidding on two other watches, but those are already higher than I want to go.
> 
> Still I prefer the small shops, I get the feeling some Japanese buyers avoid them, which might result in lower bids, but that might be my imagination.


Then we must always count that into the overall price if we thought about buying from them again. I usually don't pay higher than 21000 yen (depends on the watch) most i pay less than 10000 yen.

The small shops are better indeed, but you see them list watches less often (great finds when they do though).


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## time4d

I've gone through several proxy companies in the last 10 years before settling on Buyee. They may not be the absolutely cheapest company, but so far I like the quick and fuss-free experience and how I don't need to contact or email them directly.

In general, Japanese sellers are much more honest than others and they describe their products conservatively.

BTW, ecoworld2016 is a very good seller. Speaking from personal experience.


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## CitizenPromaster

time4d said:


> I've gone through several proxy companies in the last 10 years before settling on Buyee. They may not be the absolutely cheapest company, but so far I like the quick and fuss-free experience and how I don't need to contact or email them directly.
> 
> In general, Japanese sellers are much more honest than others and they describe their products conservatively.
> 
> BTW, ecoworld2016 is a very good seller. Speaking from personal experience.


And where can we see all the watches that you've bought from Japan the past decade?

And how much is the shipping to Antarctica ;-)


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## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> Very interesting to hear about your experience. The watch from ecoworld2016 did arrive today, after 7 days, same as your watch. I guess I could live with that, but not for 930 yen domestic shipping fee, which as I've shown in my overviews is on the high side. I knew this going in though, they list their shipping rates and they are high for all domestic destinations. I didn't check if this is because of their preferred delivery service or because of their location.


No disrespect, I am only curious to find out why 930 Yen (about $8.45 USD at this writing) is so bad a price? It seems reasonable to me. as for shipping zones, in the USA, if I send a USPS Priority Mail item, it starts at about $7 USD. It don't matter if I ship it to a person down the street or to California (3000 miles or so away), the price is around the same price.

As for Buyee, I have not tried any other broker company for Japanese items so I don't know all the prices but i have no issue with what I have paid to them. It is a business and they have to make some money. The buyee prices added up about an extra $8-$10 to each item which was not really that bad to me as they ship out quickly and the stuff arrives quickly (except for a Seiko clock that is still somewhere with Japan Post since 8/23/21 but that is not Buyee's fault as they shipped it out quickly)

The only "issue" i had was that I should not have consolidated the first 3 items as it took an extra day to ship them out. The service was fine and the items well packed and the new shipping fee was fine, it was just I was impatient for the items.


----------



## time4d

CitizenPromaster said:


> And where can we see all the watches that you've bought from Japan the past decade?
> 
> And how much is the shipping to Antarctica ;-)


Here's some of my loot over the years. Didn't photograph the majority of them. Kindly pardon the poor sizing and quality.









G-shock DW-6100, CMD-40, CMD-50, CMD-30, FT-200, CMD-30









Forester FT-200









CMD-50, G-shock GW-9300, G-squad Pro GSW-H1000, G-shock MTG-G1000









Citizen Satellite Wave F900 titanium (black and silver)









Citizen Satellite Wave F150









Citizen Satellite Wave F900 black titanium (limited edition)









Seiko Astron 7X52 (titanium)

Shipping to Antarctica, expensive


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## CitizenPromaster

journeyforce said:


> No disrespect, I am only curious to find out why 930 Yen (about $8.45 USD at this writing) is so bad a price? It seems reasonable to me. as for shipping zones, in the USA, if I send a USPS Priority Mail item, it starts at about $7 USD. It don't matter if I ship it to a person down the street or to California (3000 miles or so away), the price is around the same price.


It's just an observation, as I've shown in post #250, but I will repost the image for you here:








I could compare that 930 yen to domestic shipping in Holland, which is about the same price, but I'm simply comparing it to other shipping fees I've paid in Japan, and paying more than 900 yen is the exception, as some carriers charge 520 yen or even as little as 210 yen. I haven't kept track of which carrier charges what, but you can clearly see 930 yen is on the high end for domestic shipping in Japan. So it might be a fair rate compared to US or Dutch domestic shipping, but I don't see why I have to pay more than 900 yen in Japan, unless they are using cash on delivery, as some sellers insist on.

Another factor might be that the cheaper rates are letter packs, which are usually cheaper than packages, and theoretically letter packs offer less protection, but I haven't had any issues so far.


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## CitizenPromaster

time4d said:


> Here's some of my loot over the years. Didn't photograph the majority of them. Kindly pardon the poor sizing and quality.
> 
> G-shock DW-6100, CMD-40, CMD-50, CMD-30, FT-200, CMD-30
> Forester FT-200
> CMD-50, G-shock GW-9300, G-squad Pro GSW-H1000, G-shock MTG-G1000
> Citizen Satellite Wave F900 titanium (black and silver)
> Citizen Satellite Wave F150
> Citizen Satellite Wave F900 black titanium (limited edition)
> Seiko Astron 7X52 (titanium)
> 
> Shipping to Antarctica, expensive


Very cool, thanks for sharing!


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## CitizenPromaster

Now that EMS (2,700 yen for this 580g package) no longer offers a speed advantage - despite the price hike - I've decided to save some money and opt for "Registered Small Package (AIR)".








Now the International Shipping Fee is only a few yen more than the Package Consolidation Fee, and it will be interesting to see if there is any significant difference in the total delivery time.


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## CitizenPromaster

I know that my international shipping to the Netherlands means nothing to all of you in other countries, but maybe you will still find it interesting.

Here is the comparison between the last EMS shipment and the AIR shipment that arrived today, you can see both took a little over two weeks, while I saved 1,210 yen by using AIR in stead of EMS.










I kind of feel like a fool that I ever used EMS. I just bought another watch and I'm having it shipped solo, because as you can see the shipping cost of this one watch in a 320g package is pretty cheap, only 1,250 yen, while EMS would cost almost double.









Unfortunately I still have to pay 21% VAT to Dutch Customs on top of a €10 handling fee, but at least I can save a litle on shipping now.


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## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> I know that my international shipping to the Netherlands means nothing to all of you in other countries, but maybe you will still find it interesting.
> 
> Here is the comparison between the last EMS shipment and the AIR shipment that arrived today, you can see both took a little over two weeks, while I saved 1,210 yen by using AIR in stead of EMS.
> 
> View attachment 16176250
> 
> 
> I kind of feel like a fool that I ever used EMS. I just bought another watch and I'm having it shipped solo, because as you can see the shipping cost of this one watch in a 320g package is pretty cheap, only 1,250 yen, while EMS would cost almost double.
> View attachment 16176238
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I still have to pay 21% VAT to Dutch Customs on top of a €10 handling fee, but at least I can save a litle on shipping now.


It is very interesting to see how different is to import for various countries. For me, I have only two options (either FedEx or DHL), and both are very expensive, yet very fast to ship. The good news is, I don't have to pay the customs for any package less than 800 USD (300 BHD in our currency), otherwise I will have to pay 10% fees (5% VAT and 5% Customs duties). 

In addition, certain sellers on buyee charge a tax amount and charge more than others (ecoworld2016).

Still you get a better deal with all of those expenses.


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## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> It is very interesting to see how different is to import for various countries. For me, I have only two options (either FedEx or DHL), and both are very expensive, yet very fast to ship. The good news is, I don't have to pay the customs for any package less than 800 USD (300 BHD in our currency), otherwise I will have to pay 10% fees (5% VAT and 5% Customs duties).
> 
> In addition, certain sellers on buyee charge a tax amount and charge more than others (ecoworld2016).
> 
> Still you get a better deal with all of those expenses.


Yes, some of the sellers charge 10% Japanese VAT, since technically they are selling to a Japanese buyer, which is Buyee. Most of the time though I buy from a seller who apparently doesn't have to charge 10% VAT, or perhaps they pay it themselves and don't bother us with it.

But as you say, even with all of the expenses it's usually still very attractive to buy from Japan, maybe a little too attractive haha.


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## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> Yes, some of the sellers charge 10% Japanese VAT, since technically they are selling to a Japanese buyer, which is Buyee. Most of the time though I buy from a seller who apparently doesn't have to charge 10% VAT, or perhaps they pay it themselves and don't bother us with it.
> 
> But as you say, even with all of the expenses it's usually still very attractive to buy from Japan, maybe a little too attractive haha.


From what I understood, the tax ia applicable on stores only.

Individuals are exempt from charging tax. So as you mentioned before, it is better to look after items from less known sellers. 


"little too attractive haha." 
Underrated statement of the decade lol. I do agree with you on this as I keep failing to stop buying from there every now and then.


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## CitizenPromaster

Hahaha I was so pure and naive on page 1 of this thread:


CitizenPromaster said:


> So now I have two watches in their warehouse, together less than 1 kg. *I don't plan on buying any more watches*, I shouldn't anyway, so I'm gonna decide today how to ship them...





CitizenPromaster said:


> There is zero chance I would find my grail watch in The Netherlands, especially for this price, even including VAT, but it would feel like less of a 'victory', *and it would probably be my last Yahoo Auction purchase*. So let's hope for the Japanese economy that I don't have to pay VAT!


Well as we know I did pay VAT that first time, and I've bought a lot of watches since then! I keep getting great deals on amazing watches! I just bought a *third* example of my grail watch, and it was the least expensive so far!

And while that watch hasn't even arrived yet, I bought another watch haha. But you guys, REALLY, I'm done now... he said hopefully.


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## CitizenPromaster

Buyee finally gave me a useful coupon again, 500 yen off international shipping when paying with PayPal, which I always do.








Hahaha €8,49 for domestic + international shipping!!!

Unlike previous coupons, this one was offered to me by e-mail. Anyone else get this coupon?


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## aafanatic

@CitizenPromaster Nope, just you my friend, just you. 
PS I’m done, too. No, really


----------



## CitizenPromaster

aafanatic said:


> @CitizenPromaster Nope, just you my friend, just you.
> PS I’m done, too. No, really


If I'm the only one that got it, it might be related to my buying spree


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## Gl3nS1m0n

@CitizenPromaster and others, who have a vast experience buying from buyee, need your advice!

I decided to try buyee and won with my very first bid. The watch just arrived to the warehouse and weighs 470gr. Now, i also bid on another watch that is junk but as i was typing this post i received a message saying i was outbid. Not sure if i want to continue bidding on it anyway. 

What would be the best budget option to ship the watch to EU, specifically Germany? I assume import tax would be charged on any parcel, regardless of shipping methods? I think i remember paying DHL handling fees before when i was getting parcels from abroad... Would i, say, pay same import tax even on a junk 500yen watch if i win the other bid and consolidate my package? Like, will all the watches in my consolidated parcel be declared according to what i payed and taxed accordingly or will the customs just charge X amount they charge for all the goods that are watches? The watch that i win is >200€, the other junk one I'm currently outbidden on is around 1000yen.

And lastly, some auctions have the option to "ship directly". Is it useful in any way if i know i don't plan to consolidate my purchases?


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## Gl3nS1m0n

this is so weird, i posted a comment, thread says i posted but i can't see it here, hm


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## CitizenPromaster

It's a wonderful journey, isn't it? Your first win is extra special haha.

As for your questions: as I am not in Germany I've never explored the shipping options to Germany, but using their calculator, I get this:








As you can see, the most affordable option is AIR, but EMS might be quicker (it isn't for me as I've shown in previous posts).

I also don't know about German import taxes and VAT, maybe a German forum member does. But I pay a percentage VAT on the total value of the shipment, so if I have consolidated a bunch of watches, the total value rises and so does the VAT. In Holland I officially also pay like 50 cents per watch import tax, but for some reason they don't seem to charge me that.

As for Ship Directly, in my case it seems they use EMS for that rate, and it is not a very attractive rate and also they seem to overestimate the weight. It also doesn't save much time, because you at most save 1 day. It's a useless option if you ask me.


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## CitizenPromaster

By the way, a Dutchman who uses Zenmarket as the proxy and FedEx as the carrier told me that he pays the import taxes/VAT in advance and they just ship it directly to him.


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## Gl3nS1m0n

thank you @CitizenPromaster !
i was just wondering if selecting DHL I'd be charged tax and handling fees for sure, but, say, EMS or air world allow the package to slip through unnoticed, something like that. 

i think i bought from a private seller, not a shop, so i wonder how the watch will be declared. i think in germany we also pay 19% VAT + some handling fees.

I'm not really planning to shop often so I'm leaning towards DHL this time. also the watch itself is kinda pricey, just never had any experience with EMS.


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## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> From what I understood, the tax is applicable on stores only.
> 
> Individuals are exempt from charging tax. So as you mentioned before, it is better to look after items from less known sellers.


I think that's not the whole story, I see shops that don't charge tax, like the example below:

_Citizen Promaster Direct Flight Men's Watch Solar Radio WAVE BY0084-56E

Max17.5cm case diameter 44mm
operation is good around the arm.
It is a good degree without noticeable scratches.
The glass is scratch-free.
Thank you very much.
*Consumption tax is not charged.*
It becomes the shipment in yu pack 60 size.
In principle, we do not accept returns, but if it is significantly different from the product description, we will only accept it within one week.
*It is an exhibition from the resale shop*
TRY. 1997
Head office: Hiei-tsuji 1, Otsu City, Shiga TEL +81-77-511-9876_


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

and thank you, yes, i learned about buyee from this thread and it gave me courage to dive into it haha

now onto looking for obscure jdm citizens (i really really love citizens)


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## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> thank you @CitizenPromaster !
> i was just wondering if selecting DHL I'd be charged tax and handling fees for sure, but, say, EMS or air world allow the package to slip through unnoticed, something like that.
> 
> i think i bought from a private seller, not a shop, so i wonder how the watch will be declared. i think in germany we also pay 19% VAT + some handling fees.
> 
> I'm not really planning to shop often so I'm leaning towards DHL this time. also the watch itself is kinda pricey, just never had any experience with EMS.


There is no slipping through in Holland, and I've heard from Americans that using DHL is a sure way to get taxed! Also, if the shipping fee is not on the invoice, DHL just makes up an insane standard shipping fee and charges you VAT on that.
If you chose the 500 yen Standard Plan then Buyee insures your shipment, so it doesn't matter who you use, but EMS is not likely to lose your package anyway, as it will just be handed over to Deutsche Post which is part of Deutsche Post DHL. So I wouldn't worry about EMS if you have the Standard Plan, but don't expect to be able to avoid taxes either way.


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> There is no slipping through in Holland, and I've heard from Americans that using DHL is a sure way to get taxed! Also, if the shipping fee is not on the invoice, DHL just makes up an insane standard shipping fee and charges you VAT on that.
> If you chose the 500 yen Standard Plan then Buyee insures your shipment, so it doesn't matter who you use, but EMS is not likely to loose your package anyway, as it will just be handed over to Deutsche Post which is part of Deutsche Post DHL. So I wouldn't worry about EMS if you have the Standard Plan, but don't expect to be able to avoid taxes either way.


that's very helpful, thank you. i do indeed use the standard 500 yen plan. then EMS it is. just waiting till my gudetama figurines which i won just now (my god it's starting...) are shipped to the warehouse and off it goes!


----------



## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> Buyee finally gave me a useful coupon again, 500 yen off international shipping when paying with PayPal, which I always do.
> View attachment 16189059
> 
> Hahaha €8,49 for domestic + international shipping!!!
> 
> Unlike previous coupons, this one was offered to me by e-mail. Anyone else get this coupon?


I always get the Raketen 500 Yen coupon and I got a 3000 Yen coupon to use Mercari Japan for the first time. I bought a Casio G-Shock clock with it and the only thing it cost me was $12.00 if fees and shipping from Buyee and it arrived 2 days after Buyee shipped it.

My wallet and house walls hate Buyee and Amazon Japan as I have loads of clocks now. Including a few Seiko Satellite sync clocks. I believe Seiko is the only company offering consumer grade satellite clocks (there are commercial ones available). These clocks are impressive. They are billed as being able to sync with the satellites as long as the clock is located with in 50 feet of a window. It can be shut in a walk in closet or in the basement away from a direct line to a window and still sync since all it needs is a window somewhere with in 50 feet of it.


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## CitizenPromaster

I had no idea indoor satellite clocks existed, very cool!


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## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> I think that's not the whole story, I see shops that don't charge tax, like the example below:
> 
> _Citizen Promaster Direct Flight Men's Watch Solar Radio WAVE BY0084-56E
> 
> Max17.5cm case diameter 44mm
> operation is good around the arm.
> It is a good degree without noticeable scratches.
> The glass is scratch-free.
> Thank you very much.
> *Consumption tax is not charged.*
> It becomes the shipment in yu pack 60 size.
> In principle, we do not accept returns, but if it is significantly different from the product description, we will only accept it within one week.
> *It is an exhibition from the resale shop*
> TRY. 1997
> Head office: Hiei-tsuji 1, Otsu City, Shiga TEL +81-77-511-9876_


That is a great observation. I had enough with buyee (a big lie). I was bidding on a Citizen F990 (open box never used and recently purchased) that was sold for around 800$ only, regretting my decision of not increasing the bid from 500$ lol.

Now I am trying to get into the Brazilian market, they do have some great exclusives.


----------



## ElGhurafiy

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> thank you @CitizenPromaster !
> i was just wondering if selecting DHL I'd be charged tax and handling fees for sure, but, say, EMS or air world allow the package to slip through unnoticed, something like that.
> 
> i think i bought from a private seller, not a shop, so i wonder how the watch will be declared. i think in germany we also pay 19% VAT + some handling fees.
> 
> I'm not really planning to shop often so I'm leaning towards DHL this time. also the watch itself is kinda pricey, just never had any experience with EMS.


"I'm not really planning to shop often"

I said the same before buying 20+ watches within a short period 😂

Don't let @CitizenPromaster trick you into this trap called Buyee.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> "I'm not really planning to shop often"
> 
> I said the same before buying 20+ watches within a short period 😂
> 
> Don't let @CitizenPromaster trick you into this trap called Buyee.


It's too late for him now


----------



## georgefl74

Having a parcel bought via Zenmarket shipped by surface mail and I paid VAT charges in advance. Supposedly this will make my parcel process faster via local customs and not get any additional taxes. May end up paying less than what I would. Will keep you updated when it arrives. Unfortunately surface mail is very slow, almost three months, but it's my only option with Japan post for where I live.

Sent from my AGS2-W09 using Tapatalk


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## Gl3nS1m0n

Have my package consolidated and shipped via FedEx, which, for some reason, was twice as cheap as other options (package weighs 1.1kg).
Should arrive in a week. Very excited, will update when arrives.


----------



## mrbrowncoffee

Great Thread guys,
i also just discovered buyee for japanese watches recently and iam about to order one,and it is a bit of a confusion, because every shipping service handles the Vat process differently in germany from my previous expericens buying from other countries
i guess one has to test the different carriers and see


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## CitizenPromaster

Think twice before you buy from a Japanese seller on eBay ;-)


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## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> Think twice before you buy from a Japanese seller on eBay ;-)
> 
> View attachment 16204624
> 
> 
> View attachment 16204623


I always check buyee when I see most of the Japanese listings, they overcharge you and they barely reply to any message. You do see the same item listed on different accounts!

Most of them don't even offer shipping inside Japan (when using a P.O box)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I was getting really impatient with Customs, yesterday they had been sitting on my package for over a week without sending me a VAT invoice. Then today I see they released the package for delivery, and when it arrived there was no invoice, no VAT, no handling fee! I can't think of any reason why, because you have to pay tax no matter the amount or product. Anyway, the government had recently given me a bullcrap fine for missing a deadline and this tax break offsets it for the most part  Hopefully my next package (which will arrive at Customs next week) will get the same treatment


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> I was getting really impatient with Customs, yesterday they had been sitting on my package for over a week without sending me a VAT invoice. Then today I see they released the package for delivery, and when it arrived there was no invoice, no VAT, no handling fee! I can't think of any reason why, because you have to pay tax no matter the amount or product. Anyway, the government had recently given me a bullcrap fine for missing a deadline and this tax break offsets it for the most part  Hopefully my next package (which will arrive at Customs next week) will get the same treatment


lucky! fedex emailed me yesterday asking for proof of purchase, so i sent them the breakdown of expenses that is generated by buyee after the package has been dispatched. have no idea why this information is not being passed to the courier from the start anyway...
the package was stuck at sennan-shi for a while but arrived to france few hours ago. 
will probably pay buttload of taxes and fees but still very excited.


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## ElGhurafiy

Luckily, I don't have to pay any taxes if the items are less than $800. Another solution is that I use a P.O box from a forwarding company, this will not show the amount for the customs here, especially when buying directly from a person instead!


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## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> Luckily, I don't have to pay any taxes if the items are less than $800. Another solution is that I use a P.O box from a forwarding company, this will not show the amount for the customs here, especially when buying directly from a person instead!


Gifts/private shipments are taxed too in Holland, so Customs would just hold it until you provide proof of the value


----------



## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> Gifts/private shipments are taxed too in Holland, so Customs would just hold it until you provide proof of the value


How would you provide proof of value if there is no receipt? Do they look into market prices? Or you could get a fake value somehow?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> How would you provide proof of value if there is no receipt? Do they look into market prices? Or you could get a fake value somehow?


Good question. It's a tricky matter. What if your uncle sends you his Picasso painting? Tell Customs it's fake haha. I don't know if they stop all packages and how they would go about setting the value. You can probably get away with a lot of stuff, as Customs has only limited staff and resources.


----------



## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> Good question. It's a tricky matter. What if your uncle sends you his Picasso painting? Tell Customs it's fake haha. I don't know if they stop all packages and how they would go about setting the value. You can probably get away with a lot of stuff, as Customs has only limited staff and resources.


Glad we have lazy staff over here lol. Items are already way overpriced here (cost more with 5% TAX) than other European countries pricing (TAX included).

When I buy directly from stores overseas, I try my best to pay less than $800, otherwise will try to get it through a forwarding company buying from individuals.


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## CitizenPromaster

This is SO Yahoo. The watch looks mint, but the bracelet is only 16.5 cm because a small wristed Japanese man resized it and didn't keep the spare links haha. You can forget about finding extra links for sale!
1 yen Beautiful product working product ★ genuine citizen Citizen Eco Drive H117 Black dial genuine breath radio clock men's watch BBSWA7492 /[Buyee] "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online

I still have the spare links for the cheap Lorus I bought 20 years ago, and I've moved 10 times!!! In fact, it took me 2 minutes to get the spare links for this photo, because I knew exactly where they were haha


----------



## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> This is SO Yahoo. The watch looks mint, but the bracelet is only 16.5 cm because a small wristed Japanese man resized it and didn't keep the spare links haha. You can forget about finding extra links for sale!
> 1 yen Beautiful product working product ★ genuine citizen Citizen Eco Drive H117 Black dial genuine breath radio clock men's watch BBSWA7492 /[Buyee] "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online
> 
> I still have the spare links for the cheap Lorus I bought 20 years ago, and I've moved 10 times!!! In fact, it took me 2 minutes to get the spare links for this photo, because I knew exactly where they were haha
> 
> View attachment 16208054


Reminds me of my attesa, the titanium bracelet was sized to 13.5 cm 😂. On the bright side though, I found a new bracelet for $200 which I will not buy lol.

Still waiting for my strap to arrive.


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

got my package a while ago. fedex was right on time, everything went smooth. don't want to jinx it but still haven't got any invoices from fedex/customs.

as you can see, i got Citizen PMD56, a watch i was eyeing for a while but abandoned any hope to get, since the price in EU was way above i was willing to pay. i was the only bidder, probably because the price was already too high, but still way less that it would've cost me to buy it new and get imported. the condition is impecable, almost as new. the ownder claimed he was wearing mostly other watches and PMD was barely in rotation.

the watch is VERY comfortable. i ordered few FKM rubber straps but the titatnium bracelet might be the one i would use the most. the quick adjust feature is genius, i wish more watches would have it. my only gripe is that the safety clasp where the CITIZEN brand is etched in is a bit flimsy and it opened couple of times while i was wearing the watch. i poked around but haven't figured how i can tighten it. other than that it's a dream come true. my rotation of everyday rugged watches is now complete (as well as overall collecting for a while). next thing i will be focusing on are more dressy watches, maybe something from EXCEED line or dressy Citizens Ana-Digi.


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## ElGhurafiy

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> View attachment 16222043
> 
> 
> got my package a while ago. fedex was right on time, everything went smooth. don't want to jinx it but still haven't got any invoices from fedex/customs.
> 
> as you can see, i got Citizen PMD56, a watch i was eyeing for a while but abandoned any hope to get, since the price in EU was way above i was willing to pay. i was the only bidder, probably because the price was already too high, but still way less that it would've cost me to buy it new and get imported. the condition is impecable, almost as new. the ownder claimed he was wearing mostly other watches and PMD was barely in rotation.
> 
> the watch is VERY comfortable. i ordered few FKM rubber straps but the titatnium bracelet might be the one i would use the most. the quick adjust feature is genius, i wish more watches would have it. my only gripe is that the safety clasp where the CITIZEN brand is etched in is a bit flimsy and it opened couple of times while i was wearing the watch. i poked around but haven't figured how i can tighten it. other than that it's a dream come true. my rotation of everyday rugged watches is now complete (as well as overall collecting for a while). next thing i will be focusing on are more dressy watches, maybe something from EXCEED line or dressy Citizens Ana-Digi.
> 
> View attachment 16222042


Congratulations, this is the exact one I am eyeing now (along with a long list 🤣). Prices are way above the budget. This green dial is very attractive with tge other option (blue). 

One day I will buy one for sure.


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## CitizenPromaster

ElGhurafiy said:


> Congratulations, this is the exact one I am eyeing now (along with a long list 🤣). Prices are way above the budget. This green dial is very attractive with tge other option (blue).
> 
> One day I will buy one for sure.


This one? シチズン プロマスター LAND PMD56-2951　中古　キズあり /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online


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## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> my only gripe is that the safety clasp where the CITIZEN brand is etched in is a bit flimsy and it opened couple of times while i was wearing the watch.


I know someone who fixed that by carefully squeezing the sides with something like pliers and I guess some cloth to protect the titanium. Try at your own risk


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## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> I know someone who fixed that by carefully squeezing the sides with something like pliers and I guess some cloth to protect the titanium. Try at your own risk


i knew i would get an advice here, thank you 😅


----------



## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> This one? シチズン プロマスター LAND PMD56-2951　中古　キズあり /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online


Or this one? CITIZEN 腕時計 PROMASTER H100-S074398 電波ソーラー シチズン プロマスター チタンブレス メンズ 箱付き /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online


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## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> i knew i would get an advice here, thank you 😅


It could also be the springbar with balls thingy, but you can see for yourself if the problem is that the balls don't stick out far enough or that the clasp is too wide?


----------



## ElGhurafiy

CitizenPromaster said:


> This one? シチズン プロマスター LAND PMD56-2951　中古　キズあり /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online


Yes, will keep an eye on this as I need to sell some of my unworn watches. Hopefully it wilo not sell for the upcoming two weeks lol.


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## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> It could also be the springbar with balls thingy, but you can see for yourself if the problem is that the balls don't stick out far enough or that the clasp is too wide?


i squeezed the clasp and it fixed it, i think. sits snug and doesn't accidentally open. thanks man!


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## CitizenPromaster

This sore loser deleted all the bids because he didn't like the maximum bid. Then don't start at 1,000 yen you knob!!!!


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## CitizenPromaster

I'm not having much luck lately. My previous package has apparently been lost after arriving in my country. Of course it is insured delivery and Buyee will let Japan Post investigate, but that will take a while:

_Thank you for using our service.

We apologize to keep you waiting for the package arrival.

At this point, we consider that there is a possibility of delay or lost happened in transit on delivery company side.

Therefore, we will file a claim to Japan Post Office to investigate your package status from now.

Please note that it may take several weeks to several months because the investigation will be taken between Japan Post office and the local post office of the destination.

If you receive the package while you are waiting for the result of the investigation, please kindly let us know._

Then I bought something from Mercari, and it wasn't being shipped. Now it has been cancelled all together, so Buyee refunded me.

_Thank you for using our service.

Unfortunately, your successful purchase of the item below was cancelled for the following reason:
< <Canceled due to the convenience of the seller.>>

Any payments you have made so far will be refunded. _

*Plays sad violin music*


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## Gl3nS1m0n

damn, it's a shame.

as predicted, i bought something else, the watch is on it's way to buyee. i wouldn't normally buy something new this quickly again, but this watch was on my wishlist for a while and i never thought it's going to be available for purchase, unless i go to japan myself and roam around second hand watch stores. i searched for the model number and it popped up, so i had to get it. will post when i get it. the other purchase is a nighthawk bracelet. got a nighthawk havana on a local market, but, as it's almost always the case with the havana model, it comes on a leather strap. again, looked for the bracelet on buyee and got lucky. EVERYTHING IS COMING TOGETHER, GUYS.


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## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> i wouldn't normally buy something new this quickly again, but this watch was on my wishlist for a while and i never thought it's going to be available for purchase, unless i go to japan myself and roam around second hand watch stores. i searched for the model number and it popped up, so i had to get it.


this will keep happening and you will convince yourself this is an opportunity you have to take, and that's how you end up addicted like the rest of us 

thankfully the seller intervened by cancelling my last purchase


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## Gl3nS1m0n

well it's not my fault there are so many good watches! 😅 for example, i don't usually wear dressy watches, although i have few in my collection, but when i look at all the gorgeousness on buyee i just want to get them all. i won't, but i want to 🤣


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## journeyforce

I bought a parts watch from Mercari Japan.

I have an Seiko Elnix that is missing a case spring(sits in the case back and applies pressure to the movement ring) and movement ring. I guess a former owner had the battery changed and the battery changer forgot to put the stuff back. I wanted a broken one so that I did not have to take parts from a working watch to use on this watch. Of course with my luck, I will wind up with another working Elnix and still have to hunt for parts

Now the wait begins

Parts watch (sellers pics)


















Watch the donor parts are going to go in


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## CitizenPromaster

My bad luck continued, when the missing package finally arrived, it turned out that the watch had left the poorly taped up bubble wrap and it was sliding around in the cardboard box.








Fortunately it is a DLC coated watch, so the cardboard can't have done much damage, only the DLC parts rubbing against each other. I already feared something like this happening though. When I consolidate a package, even without buying "extra protective packaging" they put all the watches in a bigger box, and they stuff it full of cushioning plastic, so it always arrived safe and sound. Now I shipped a single watch, and they just reused the package it arrived in at their warehouse, and they didn't even bother taping it up properly after verifying the content. So while I am not too happy about Buyee, I can only blame myself for not preventing it, because pretty much the same thing happened to aafanatic, but fortunately for him that was also a DLC coated watch.


aafanatic said:


> I skipped the repackaging service this time and my watch was shipped in an envelope without even bubble wrap The good news is that it arrived ok in spite


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## journeyforce

The thing I always got a kick out of was the Buyee emails letting you know they bought the item or it arrived at Buyee warehouse or that they sent it. They always start with please connect to the internet to view this message. I find this funny because if you were not connected to the internet then you would not know you got this email.


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## CitizenPromaster

journeyforce said:


> The thing I always got a kick out of was the Buyee emails letting you know they bought the item or it arrived at Buyee warehouse or that they sent it. They always start with please connect to the internet to view this message. I find this funny because if you were not connected to the internet then you would not know you got this email.


Still there. Perhaps related to push notifications?








Hopefully this order won’t get cancelled!


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## Gl3nS1m0n

for some reason i don't see any "fast" options like DHL or FedEx. wonder what happened.


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## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> View attachment 16270353
> 
> 
> for some reason i don't see any "fast" options like DHL or FedEx. wonder what happened.


Read the Notices on your My Page ;-)


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## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> Read the Notices on your My Page ;-)


thanks, i saw the notice about FedEx being slow, but i brushed off the second part. Not sure if i should just opt for EMS or do indeed choose the new "Air" delivery.


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## Ziptie

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> thanks, i saw the notice about FedEx being slow, but i brushed off the second part. Not sure if i should just opt for EMS or do indeed choose the new "Air" delivery.


I used EMS a number of times and found it a good balance of price and speed. Purchases usually got to me in Seattle in under a week.

While it was suspended I used DHL, which was more expensive, and only a day or two faster. Not worth it, for me.


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## journeyforce

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> thanks, i saw the notice about FedEx being slow, but i brushed off the second part. Not sure if i should just opt for EMS or do indeed choose the new "Air" delivery.



I don't know how it is with going to Germany, but at least to the USA, when i use Buyee Air Service, they ether ended up sending it via DHL or EMS. So I got it shipped via EMS for a lower cost then choosing EMS.

Of course up until this week, I had not bought a watch using Buyee. I only bought Japan market clocks (the main reason i signed up for Buyee in the first place) so a large item like a clock probably has a different shipping set up due to size.

I did choose the EMS shipping for my parts watch that i just bought because who knows what will happen with the new covid variant and I would rather the parts watch arrive sooner then later so I can extract the two parts from the watch to use in the watch i bought it for.


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## Gl3nS1m0n

In the end i opted for Air and they sent it via DHL. They offer a coupon for new Air method, so i think it came down to around same price as EMS or even bit lower. 
Have some other non-watch items in the storage and will most probably use the regular air mail to see how quickly it will arrive.


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## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> So my first observation: it seems like the local bidders don't like the Buyout option, even when the price is reasonable. Of course Buyout defeats the purpose of an auction, but I just bought a Citizen (to be revealed when I actually receive it) that was reasonably priced, and this model went for considerably more the last time people were allowed to bid on one starting at 1000 yen.



I agree with your assessment. I just bought a working Seiko Elnix from Yahoo Japan auctions for the Buyout price of 5000 Yen (about $45 and some change). I have watches the bidding on some of the other Elnix and those that were the same as this one (funky 1970's style) were going higher bid wise. Even the not working one. This one is reported at running about 10 secs +/- per day. I can easily dial it in a bit better using the timing machine.

It came out to about 6000 Yen ($55) with Buyee fees so far. I expect it will have the same shipping price as the other Elnix I bought so it will come out to a total of $70-$76 when all is said and done. This was an auction that the seller was paying the shipping so I will not get stuck for local shipping

Buyee has this thing called Ship Directly which apparently streamlines the process so that you pay everything upfront and they do their thing and ship it out without having to wait till you get an email telling you your items have arrived at Buyee and now you have to pick your shipping before it will be sent. While I can see some benefit to this as you can pay upfront and not have to worry about what the shipping costs are or having to give the ok to ship (pay up front and you don't have to do anything else) but this does not work if you have many auction wins or buyouts as they don't consolidate. This Ship Directly did not benefit me as it would have added $14.00 extra to my order over just doing it the regular way with waiting for Buyee to get it and then picking the shipping type and paying the shipping cost. This is because Buyee is also calculating there is a local shipping price and will not issue a refund if the price comes to be lower then what I paid or gave you back the part of the amount if there is no local shipping cost.

However i can see a time that i will use Ship Directly as when if buy more Japan market clocks using Yahoo Japan auctions. This will give me the total price upfront. Last summer, I bought a bunch of Japanese clocks and worried what the shipping costs would be as I could only rough estimate it using the Buyee estimate tool

Finally if you like a watch sold from a Japanese seller on ebay, check Yahoo Japan first as a lot of them seem to be listing watches listed on yahoo japan with a buyout on eBay and jacking the prices up. This exact watch I just bought for a buyout price of about $45(before fees) is being sold for $153 on eBay by a Japanese seller. It is the same watch. Even adding up all the fees from Buyee and the shipping, it still comes out to be over $80 less then buying it on eBay


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

Citizen Alterna (on the right) is in. Synced via JJY app and ticking nicely. The strap for the Nighthawk is also in, tried putting it on but for some reason can't get the original springbar in. Probably need a better springbar tool, i'm using a noname chinese one and it's all chipped and dented. The strap on the Alterna slides in and out like butter though, will put it on an orange waffle strap later. 

That's it for now, no more watches from Japan, although i got into the habit of browsing buyee like a feed, which is not good. Originally i wanted a JDM red Nighthawk, even saw one for sale but slept on it. Or something in titanium, like this one, but i really prefer something more colorful. Kinda finding it hard to look for specific models, unless you know the model number. Even then, many sellers don't put it in the title, so i just look for "citizen watch".

The DHL Express shipping was very fast, was surprised, considering buyee warned about the delays.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> Kinda finding it hard to look for specific models, unless you know the model number. Even then, many sellers don't put it in the title, so i just look for "citizen watch".


I'm sure many of us could teach you some search tricks, BUT that will only result in finding more watches and buying them ;-)

I will consolidate a few packages this week. I'm not even gonna bother saying these are my last purchases haha


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## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm sure many of us could teach you some search tricks, BUT that will only result in finding more watches and buying them ;-)


eh, it's not that i'm trying to cut on purchases. i got what i wanted from the wishlist, now i'm just having fun discovering new models, googling the specs, etc. if i see something i like i'll just get it. 
i figured, one of the options to get better results is either to use japanese keywords or english translations that don't necessarily match proper english. for example "strap" is being autotranslated as "belt", so maybe using "belt" would give better results.


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## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> eh, it's not that i'm trying to cut on purchases. i got what i wanted from the wishlist, now i'm just having fun discovering new models, googling the specs, etc. if i see something i like i'll just get it.
> i figured, one of the options to get better results is either to use japanese keywords or english translations that don't necessarily match proper english. for example "strap" is being autotranslated as "belt", so maybe using "belt" would give better results.


I mostly browse categories (to see new listings), and when I use search terms I use either model numbers or case and movement numbers, or the Japanese terms that they use in auctions. You can copy paste the Japanese text to the search bar (after finding out what it means through the auto-translate) and then save the search, since we can't type in Japanese.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> Originally i wanted a JDM red Nighthawk, even saw one for sale but slept on it.


By red you mean brown? Like this one? 36931-180　CITIZEN シチズン プロマスター エコドライブ ソーラー 電波 腕時計　 H411-T005551電池交換済み　送料180円～選択式同梱不可 /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan! bot-online


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## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> By red you mean brown?


yes, exactly! i think this Nighthawk is SS, not titanium, right? i'm not sure what's the model number is. i think it's PMD56-2775

EDIT: btw figured i can put H411 as a keyword, that gave me few options i haven't seen before.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> yes, exactly! i think this Nighthawk is SS, not titanium, right? i'm not sure what's the model number is. i think it's PMD56-2775
> 
> EDIT: btw figured i can put H411 as a keyword, that gave me few options i haven't seen before.


Yes, titanium. Yes, PMD56-2775.


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## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> Yes, titanium. Yes, PMD56-2775.


thanks mate. maybe if i see one on a OEM bracelet in good condition i'll snag one.


----------



## journeyforce

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> View attachment 16283162
> 
> 
> Citizen Alterna (on the right) is in. Synced via JJY app and ticking nicely. The strap for the Nighthawk is also in, tried putting it on but for some reason can't get the original springbar in. Probably need a better springbar tool, i'm using a noname chinese one and it's all chipped and dented. The strap on the Alterna slides in and out like butter though, will put it on an orange waffle strap later.
> 
> That's it for now, no more watches from Japan, although i got into the habit of browsing buyee like a feed, which is not good. Originally i wanted a JDM red Nighthawk, even saw one for sale but slept on it. Or something in titanium, like this one, but i really prefer something more colorful. Kinda finding it hard to look for specific models, unless you know the model number. Even then, many sellers don't put it in the title, so i just look for "citizen watch".
> 
> The DHL Express shipping was very fast, was surprised, considering buyee warned about the delays.



Nice watches. On the Nighthawk the lugs are so close to the case, not all straps will work. You need a pair of 22mm curved spring bars to use most straps. Also check to make sure the spring bar that came with the watch is 22mm and not 21mm. The metal bracelet models use 21mm bars to attach the strap. Using that same bar with a strap will cause the watch to pop off the wrist and hit the floor


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

journeyforce said:


> Nice watches. On the Nighthawk the lugs are so close to the case, not all straps will work. You need a pair of 22mm curved spring bars to use most straps. Also check to make sure the spring bar that came with the watch is 22mm and not 21mm. The metal bracelet models use 21mm bars to attach the strap. Using that same bar with a strap will cause the watch to pop off the wrist and hit the floor


interesting. i had it the other way around. i got a havana nighthawk on a strap and then ordered OEM bracelet, so i'm using the springbars that came with the leather strap.
was probably not clear from my message. the SS bracelet is not in the pic, currently i have FKM rubber on.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> thanks mate. maybe if i see one on a OEM bracelet in good condition i'll snag one.


They rarely come with the original strap, since these watches are 15+ years old, and if they come with it, they are not in good condition. There is an unworn 2773 right now, the first of this series I’ve seen with “NOS” strap, and obviously a price to match. You will have seen it after you searched for “H411”, but this is NOT a common occurence.


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> There is an unworn 2773 right now, the first of this series I’ve seen with “NOS” bracelet, and obviously a price to match.


yeah i saw that. if it had titanium bracelet i'd be all over it, although i saw few titanium bracelets sold separately.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I meant to write original strap and NOS strap so I edited it for clarity, but anyway, sourcing a titanium bracelet is easier.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> yeah i saw that. if it had titanium bracelet i'd be all over it, although i saw few titanium bracelets sold separately.


do you have a genie in a bottle? シチズン 電波 腕時計 H411-T005551 ラウンド デイト ブラウン文字盤 エコドライブ メンズ 純正ベルト 稼働品 /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan!


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## mediasapiens

Zenmarket is good. Except if watch strap is made of reptile or reptile imitation. You have two options to deal with moronic CITES here. You either convince Zenmarket staff that strap is imitation crock (as I did with my Seiko SAGL) or you ask them to cut the strap off before shipping.
Occasionally their algorithm trips up and lets you buy something made of crock entirely (as happened to me with Carmina Crock shoes). In such case Zenmarket staff ignores the fact of crocodile shoes and ships them without any bull.
One thing I've noticed that Yahoo auctions in Japan operate on different ethical premise. In Western World if you won an auction the item is yours by contractual law. In Japan if seller wants more money he can legally ignore your winning bid and relist his item again and again and again.


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## CitizenPromaster

mediasapiens said:


> Zenmarket is good. Except if watch strap is made of reptile or reptile imitation. You have two options to deal with moronic CITE here. You either convince Zenmarket staff that strap is imitation crock (as I did with my Seiko SAGL) or you ask them to cut the strap off before shipping.
> Occasionally their algorithm trips up and lets you buy something made of crock entirely (as happened to me with Carmina Crock shoes). In such case Zenmarket staff ignores the fact of crocodile shoes and ships them without any bull.
> One thing I've noticed that Yahoo auctions in Japan operate on different ethical premise. In Western World if you won an auction the item is yours by contractual law. In Japan if seller wants more money he can legally ignore your winning bid and relist his item again and again and again.


Yes, some sellers on Yahoo start with 1 yen and never sell it because it never reaches what they want. But somehow they don't get negative reviews for doing so...
If that is the law, fine, but we are not allowed to cancel bids, which is not fair.


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## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> do you have a genie in a bottle? シチズン 電波 腕時計 H411-T005551 ラウンド デイト ブラウン文字盤 エコドライブ メンズ 純正ベルト 稼働品 /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan!


thanks! i most probably will bet.
are these drilled lugs? they look huge.


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## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> thanks! i most probably will bet.
> are these drilled lugs? they look huge.


Anybody have a Citizen PMD56-2771? | WatchUSeek Watch Forums


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## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> My bad luck continued, when the missing package finally arrived, it turned out that the watch had left the poorly taped up bubble wrap and it was sliding around in the cardboard box.
> View attachment 16266706
> 
> Fortunately it is a DLC coated watch, so the cardboard can't have done much damage, only the DLC parts rubbing against each other. I already feared something like this happening though. When I consolidate a package, even without buying "extra protective packaging" they put all the watches in a bigger box, and they stuff it full of cushioning plastic, so it always arrived safe and sound. Now I shipped a single watch, and they just reused the package it arrived in at their warehouse, and they didn't even bother taping it up properly after verifying the content. So while I am not too happy about Buyee, I can only blame myself for not preventing it, because pretty much the same thing happened to aafanatic, but fortunately for him that was also a DLC coated watch.


I've been rethinking this, and I think I can indeed blame Buyee for not properly taping the bubble wrap back up after inspection. There was one lousy piece of narrow tape holding the watch in, surely they can do better than that even if you don't opt for "Protective Packaging". The damage to the DLC is consistent with a lot of sliding around. On my other watches it is more spot damage, and here it is almost the entire bezel. And there is also a scratch on the sapphire crystal, whilst the watch was listed as "No obvious damages/dirt", so it might very well be the result of a very rough trip. So I've decided to apply for a refund because I paid for the Standard Plan. It turns out this has to happen within 14 days, but I doubt 18 days will be a problem. So we will see if Buyee is willing to pay up!


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## parv

CitizenPromaster said:


> I've been rethinking this, and I think I can indeed blame Buyee for not properly taping the bubble wrap back up after inspection. There was one lousy piece of narrow tape holding the watch in
> ...
> So I've decided to apply for a refund because I paid for the Standard Plan. It turns out this has to happen within 14 days, but I doubt 18 days will be a problem. So we will see if Buyee is willing to pay up!


"Fingers crossed" emoji is missing from the list of "Like", so here is one: 🤞


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## CitizenPromaster

parv said:


> "Fingers crossed" emoji is missing from the list of "Like", so here is one: 🤞


They rejected my claim on the basis of 14 days having passed. I’m not having that, the package arrived after 6 weeks, I e-mailed them about it being possibly lost, and now they want to complain about 4 days. Besides, they don’t specificy weekdays or business days and I am within 14 business days.

Reject my claim for any reason, but not an arbitrary time limit that has barely passed. Maybe open a Paypal dispute and switch to Zenmarket? Or am I in the wrong here?


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## CitizenPromaster

Putting a little presure on them made them agree to review my claim. Now they want more photos, and their rule is from the same angle as the auction photo. That will be fun, because from that angle you can't see the damage...


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## journeyforce

Here is a rare Japan market Skyhawk. It is model PMV65-2242 (aka the Black Eagle)

The Seller just calls it a Citizen



https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/x1025549166?conversionType=service_page_search



A count of the links and a comparing of the links on my Skyhawk shows that this watch has enough total links (12) (removable and non removable) to fit a 7.5in wrist. It matches my skyhawk which has 12 removable and non removable links and fits me perfectly( in my case, I had to remove 2 links so mine had 14 links total)

It looks like it is a nice price and even with all the shipping and fees it still is below $200.00. A well worn stainless steel Skyhawk AT sells for more on eBay then this one is listed.

A search on Buyee/Yahoo Japan shows no items when PMV65-2242 is typed into the search

This one does have a good amount of wear on it but still looks good in the pics and would look great on the Citizen rubber strap (with the clasp switched over) that was offered on the USA market Skyhawk AT


----------



## CitizenPromaster

journeyforce said:


> Here is a rare Japan market Skyhawk. It is model PMV65-2242 (aka the Black Eagle)
> 
> The Seller just calls it a Citizen
> 
> 
> 
> https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/x1025549166?conversionType=service_page_search
> 
> 
> 
> A count of the links and a comparing of the links on my Skyhawk shows that this watch has enough total links (12) (removable and non removable) to fit a 7.5in wrist. It matches my skyhawk which has 12 removable and non removable links and fits me perfectly( in my case, I had to remove 2 links so mine had 14 links total)
> 
> It looks like it is a nice price and even with all the shipping and fees it still is below $200.00. A well worn stainless steel Skyhawk AT sells for more on eBay then this one is listed.
> 
> A search on Buyee/Yahoo Japan shows no items when PMV65-2242 is typed into the search
> 
> This one does have a good amount of wear on it but still looks good in the pics and would look great on the Citizen rubber strap (with the clasp switched over) that was offered on the USA market Skyhawk AT


Actually the price is very good considering the seller is ssoll_sell.


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## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> Putting a little presure on them made them agree to review my claim. Now they want more photos, and their rule is from the same angle as the auction photo. That will be fun, because from that angle you can't see the damage...


I don't like arguing about money, so I will reduce my claim to a complaint. I don't care about a little damage to a used watch, and it might have been there already, I am just very disappointed with the packaging, and the sliding and bouncing around surely hasn't improved the condition of the watch. I hope they take my complaint seriously, but either way I will just take this one on the chin.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

journeyforce said:


> A count of the links and a comparing of the links on my Skyhawk shows that this watch has enough total links (12) (removable and non removable) to fit a 7.5in wrist. It matches my skyhawk which has 12 removable and non removable links and fits me perfectly( in my case, I had to remove 2 links so mine had 14 links total)


Unfortunately I need 13 links on most JDM Citizen watches to wear it comfortably (6 on one side, 7 on the other), and often the watches on Yahoo - like this 2242) are one link short of that! I still have bought a few with 12 links if the price was right though, because finding one link one day is not completely impossible.


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## jvspin

I will say, I've never had a problem with the packaging with zenmarket. There is no additional fee for consolidating and they always rebubble wrap and label each item with their auction id. I've never had them inspect an item.
I just shipped a package to the US with 12 items (740g) for 2616yen using their new shipping option that takes 3 weeks.


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## CitizenPromaster

jvspin said:


> I will say, I've never had a problem with the packaging with zenmarket. There is no additional fee for consolidating and they always rebubble wrap and label each item with their auction id. I've never had them inspect an item.
> I just shipped a package to the US with 12 items (740g) for 2616yen using their new shipping option that takes 3 weeks.


Inspection is part of Buyee's Standard Plan, but I don't know how closely Buyee inspects the items. I have not had any problems with packaging either until this mishap, because most of the time the seller packaged it at least semi-decent. So when Buyee consolidates, the packaging remains decent. In this case I do blame Buyee for not spending 10 yen on a bit of bubble wrap and tape, but the seller did a lousy job to begin with.

As we've explored before, Zenmarket is a cheaper option when you buy multiple low price items, but they are not the best option for high price items because of their deposit fee. I also like that I can pay through Paypal and they just charge my bank account, that's enough for me to stick with Buyee, until I finally give up chasing the Yahoo dragon...








South Park reference


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## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> Actually the price is very good considering the seller is ssoll_sell.



I have not found a problem with them. I actually have a Seiko Super Runner coming from them. I find they have good prices on a lot of the watches I am interested in. They also have nice condition Grand Seiko models for between $600 and $1200. Most Japanese sellers seem to want over $1000 for them all (especially the cool ones with the Kanji day wheel (9F83 models) ) Yes they do have some fantasy priced ones but they don't seem to veer towards crackpipe prices like a lot of Japanese and US eBay sellers


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## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> Unfortunately I need 13 links on most JDM Citizen watches to wear it comfortably (6 on one side, 7 on the other), and often the watches on Yahoo - like this 2242) are one link short of that! I still have bought a few with 12 links if the price was right though, because finding one link one day is not completely impossible.


I have bought shorter linked watches before also. Some I put on straps and I have been known to put a different color link on a bracelet so that i could wear the watch. I had a black PVD titanium Casio with solar and atomic that i bought from a Japanese seller on eBay years ago. It was one link too short for my wrist. I was planing on putting it on a 20mm strap but until the strap arrived i wanted to wear it so i used one of the spare links from my non PVD Ti model that I had. I placed it the closest I could to the clasp so that it would not stick out visually too much. Well in the end the strap was not used with the watch as it to this day still has the different color link on it.

The Japan market PMV Skyhawks use a totally different bracelet over the US market Ti and steel Skyhawk models. It is not just the clasp. The JDM model have holes in each link while the US one only has one. The reason for the extra holes was to allow you to move the little rings on the clasp to the other side of the link so that you did not have a case where the one link had the arrow to remove the pin pointing the opposite way from the others (which was the case when you added a link from the 12 side to the 6 side (and vice versa)

On that Skyhawk I posted the link for, it is unlikely that a link would be found for it as they only made a few hundred each year(according to forum research) so if I was a link short I would ether use a spare link from my PMV skyhawk or put it on the optional rubber strap that came with some US market models


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## CitizenPromaster

journeyforce said:


> I have not found a problem with them. I actually have a Seiko Super Runner coming from them. I find they have good prices on a lot of the watches I am interested in. They also have nice condition Grand Seiko models for between $600 and $1200. Most Japanese sellers seem to want over $1000 for them all (especially the cool ones with the Kanji day wheel (9F83 models) ) Yes they do have some fantasy priced ones but they don't seem to veer towards crackpipe prices like a lot of Japanese and US eBay sellers


No, I was implying that their prices are fair, but firm considering the use of buy-out.


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## CitizenPromaster

journeyforce said:


> I have bought shorter linked watches before also. Some I put on straps and I have been known to put a different color link on a bracelet so that i could wear the watch. I had a black PVD titanium Casio with solar and atomic that i bought from a Japanese seller on eBay years ago. It was one link too short for my wrist. I was planing on putting it on a 20mm strap but until the strap arrived i wanted to wear it so i used one of the spare links from my non PVD Ti model that I had. I placed it the closest I could to the clasp so that it would not stick out visually too much. Well in the end the strap was not used with the watch as it to this day still has the different color link on it.


Yes, I am considering using a non-DLC link. I have bought another mint in box one that has all 15 links, but I'd rather keep that watch complete. So I might buy another "donor" watch with 15 links and sell it on with less links, since most people only need 13 links like I do.


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## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> Yes, I am considering using a non-DLC link. I have bought another mint in box one that has all 15 links, but I'd rather keep that watch complete. So I might buy another "donor" watch with 15 links and sell it on with less links, since most people only need 13 links like I do.


I actually got a spare link, collar and link pin for my PMV Skyhawk I just bought last week. It was being sold by a Mercari Japan seller. The same guy was selling it on Yahoo japan but it was cheaper on Mercari Japan then YJ so i bought it there and he ended his YJ auction

The only issue with Buyee is what is up with this Ship Directly offer that Buyee has. In theory it allows you to speed up the buy process by paying local and international shipping upfront. it will always cost a bit more then actual local (seller ships to Buyee) and international shipping as Buyee is guessing the total costs. However this little extra is a trade off for cutting down time on shipping to you (usually Buyee inspects the package and then weighs it and then sends an email telling to pay an amount and then once you pay it then it ships. This could add on a day or two (or more) depending upon how quickly you respond. The Direct ship cuts all that time out. It is now inspected and shipped with no input from you. This is good for me (and other Americans who spend under $800) as there is no customs wait but probably will not manner to my European and Canadian friends because not only will every item you get will mostly be delayed while customs plots on how to bone you for the most money before handing over the goods.

I did this with my PMV Skyhawk I just bought. However the total of direct shipping for that watch and all its books, papers and boxes was about $35.00 total (about $5.00 more then just doing it a the old way with waiting till it arrives and paying). That is acceptable to me and I will do that all day for something like that. However I just bought a Citizen Atessa that was watch only with no other crap like book and boxes from the same seller I bought the Citizen PMV65 Skyhawk and a Seiko Super Runner (Perhaps Seiko should leave watch nicknaming to the forums as Super Runner is a dumb name (does it give me super powers??) ) from and their shipping is 770 yen and the shipping to me would be 2500 Yen at most for a total of 3270 Yen (under $30.00) however using ship direct for a titanium watch with no boxes and papers was 10,170 Yen which is about $60 more then the shipping cost for the heavier watch with the full kit. So i would be paying more to ship a lighter watch then a heavier watch using the Direct Ship option. It does not make sense


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## journeyforce

I am actually very impressed by ssol_sell (2nd Street Reuse Shop( A higher end thrift store) ) as they really have nice stuff and very current too. They have a used Seiko Astron SSJ005 for sale. This is the more manageable 39mm Astron that is a simple 3 hander with no sub-dials to make the watch look too busy. This just started being sold around July-Aug 2021 in Japan and late last month in the USA and yet they have one for under $1000 (it will be more after Buyee fees and shipping and customs but all totaled up is still much cheaper then buying it new in the USA (would cost me with tax about $1700 out the door)



https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/x1021146562?conversionType=service_page_search


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## jvspin

CitizenPromaster said:


> Inspection is part of Buyee's Standard Plan, but I don't know how closely Buyee inspects the items. I have not had any problems with packaging either until this mishap, because most of the time the seller packaged it at least semi-decent. So when Buyee consolidates, the packaging remains decent. In this case I do blame Buyee for not spending 10 yen on a bit of bubble wrap and tape, but the seller did a lousy job to begin with.
> 
> As we've explored before, Zenmarket is a cheaper option when you buy multiple low price items, but they are not the best option for high price items because of their deposit fee. I also like that I can pay through Paypal and they just charge my bank account, that's enough for me to stick with Buyee, until I finally give up chasing the Yahoo dragon...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> South Park reference


True, I wish zenmarket did the pay as you go like Buyee. Zenmarket still works for me since I'm typically buying lots of low priced items. I'm also not usually in a hurry to receive the goods so I'll use up the free 45 days storage and then ship whatever has accumulated at that point.


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## jvspin

journeyforce said:


> The Direct ship cuts all that time out. It is now inspected and shipped with no input from you. This is good for me (and other Americans who spend under $800) as there is no customs wait but probably will not manner to my European and Canadian friends because not only will every item you get will mostly be delayed while customs plots on how to bone you for the most money before handing over the goods.


I still don't understand how customs works. I've purchased groups of watches >$800 and at times, indvidual watches within a group were >$800. Have never been hit with a customs charge. Most all shipments by EMS Japan Post to USPS. Customs in San Francisco typically takes a day to process. Total shipping time 5 to 7 days, maybe longer now.

Had one package shipped by DHL and a couple of packages shipped by Surface mail when EMS was not shipping to the US due to covid. Using DHL I had to fill out customs paperwork stating movement type, material, etc., total value of package was about $1600 but no watch was >$800 and there were no additional customs fees. Took about 5 days to get through Customs in Cincinatti. Total shipping time about 14 days.

Surface mail took 3 months!


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## journeyforce

jvspin said:


> I still don't understand how customs works. I've purchased groups of watches >$800 and at times, indvidual watches within a group were >$800. Have never been hit with a customs charge. Most all shipments by EMS Japan Post to USPS. Customs in San Francisco typically takes a day to process. Total shipping time 5 to 7 days, maybe longer now.
> 
> Had one package shipped by DHL and a couple of packages shipped by Surface mail when EMS was not shipping to the US due to covid. Using DHL I had to fill out customs paperwork stating movement type, material, etc., total value of package was about $1600 but no watch was >$800 and there were no additional customs fees. Took about 5 days to get through Customs in Cincinatti. Total shipping time about 14 days.
> 
> Surface mail took 3 months!


Customs is a great mystery. Sometimes they hit you with charges and sometimes they don't. You have a better chance at getting hit with customs with items $800 or over with DHL then USPS because DHL stands to get a "fee" for paying the customs up front in order to move your package out of it. The last time I got a watch that required customs it was on a $1400 watch from Seiya. DHL paid the customs fees and I got emailed a bill with $30 extra for "fees" on top of the amount that was customs. It really did not bother me as the watch arrived in 2 days (during the last big wave of the pandemic) so the extra $30 did not really matter to me. USPS might let it slip buy because they don't want to be bothered. I have always expected to pay customs and other fees so the few times I have bought items over $800, it did not faze me because I expected it. I was more impatient on DHL sending the email so i could pay them so I would get my stuff.

I have never had to fill out paperwork on my end about item type or movement etc. I expect the seller to do that. If they don't and I get hit with filling out forms or calling folks to square stuff away then I tell the shipper to send it back to the seller and get a refund. It is not my job to fill out paperwork as the buyer. When I send items out of the USA, I fill out all the customs forms


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## jvspin

journeyforce said:


> I have never had to fill out paperwork on my end about item type or movement etc. I expect the seller to do that.


That was a zenmarket thing. They said they don't recommend using DHL, UPS or FedEX with watches due to the paperwork required at customs, which they don't handle. I looked into it and figured I could handle it so went ahead and used DHL. DHL contacted me when the watches arrived in the US and gave me the required forms. It wasn't too much trouble filling them out but I truthfully answered that they had batteries and then was worried that would be an issue. The watches were delayed a bit in customs but eventually released (don't know if the delay had anything to do with the batteries).

Does Buyee handle the customs paperwork for watches shipped to the US with DHL?


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## journeyforce

jvspin said:


> That was a zenmarket thing. They said they don't recommend using DHL, UPS or FedEX with watches due to the paperwork required at customs, which they don't handle. I looked into it and figured I could handle it so went ahead and used DHL. DHL contacted me when the watches arrived in the US and gave me the required forms. It wasn't too much trouble filling them out but I truthfully answered that they had batteries and then was worried that would be an issue. The watches were delayed a bit in customs but eventually released (don't know if the delay had anything to do with the batteries).
> 
> Does Buyee handle the customs paperwork for watches shipped to the US with DHL?


To be perfectly honest, I don't know. I have tried several times to get them to send items by DHL instead of EMS because I did not want USPS touching my package (I was buying a bunch of Japanese market clocks) as I did not want them damaged. I was told by Buyee that if I chose the Buyee Air shipment feature, then the item would ether go through DHL, FEDEX or UPS. That option was actually cheaper then picking EMS so I picked Buyee Air and they still sent it via EMS So I have not experienced DHL though Buyee. But as they have filled out the customs forms for all the items I have bought though them and they shipped via EMS, I suspect they fill them out for DHL also.


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## jvspin

journeyforce said:


> But as they have filled out the customs forms for all the items I have bought though them and they shipped via EMS, I suspect they fill them out for DHL also.


When shipping with EMS, zenmarket always includes a type of invoice listing a description and value of each item in the package that is in a clear plastic pouch on the outside of the box. Lately, They've been listing each watch as having no battery in the description even when they are quartz.

For DHL, they provided the same information but DHL wanted additional forms filled out stating movement, case material, band material and relative value of each when the package made it into the US.


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## journeyforce

jvspin said:


> When shipping with EMS, zenmarket always includes a type of invoice listing a description and value of each item in the package that is in a clear plastic pouch on the outside of the box. Lately, They've been listing each watch as having no battery in the description even when they are quartz.
> 
> For DHL, they provided the same information but DHL wanted additional forms filled out stating movement, case material, band material and relative value of each when the package made it into the US.


Yes all my Buyee items came in packages (or in the case of the spare link a large green envelope) that had a clear resealable pouch with the customs forms and listing of the contents (4 pages total). I guess Buyee does all that for the items no matter the shipping


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## journeyforce

Well today i lost my first Yahoo Japan Auction. I mostly stick to the auctions with buy out prices and just buy the item out and out instead of trying to save a bit of money (and possibly losing) by just bidding on the auction. I did bid on and win a Seiko Super Runner in red (to go with my silver Super Runner) as my first YJ auction bidding experience.

I was looking for another PMV65-2241 Skyhawk so that i could put one on the optional Citizen Skyhawk rubber strap that was offered in the USA. That way i had a PMV65-2241 on a rubber strap and one on the bracelet. I placed a bid in Yen that equaled $120.00 and lost by $7.26 on the watch. (with all those fees and shipping it would have come out to under $170 for me)



https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/t1026155366?conversionType=buyee_top_browsing_history



The quest continues but to show how laborious finding watches on Buyee for Yahoo Japan is sometimes, I only found this watch by chance while looking through the Promaster listings on Yahoo Japan itself. I then had to copy and paste the title into Buyee to find it using Buyee as it was not originally found there. The auction title was in all Japanese and even when translated only basically said Citizen Promaster. No model name or case number. So sometimes you have to spend a good amount of time Sherlocking out the watches you want.


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## jvspin

journeyforce said:


> The quest continues but to show how laborious finding watches on Buyee for Yahoo Japan is sometimes, I only found this watch by chance while looking through the Promaster listings on Yahoo Japan itself.


Sometimes I wonder what great watches at fantastic prices I'm missing out on because they don't come up on my searches.


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## CitizenPromaster

The impala is a Yahoo Japan Auction, the tree is Buyee, I'm the leopard in the tree, the baboons are the Japanese Yahoo Japan Auction users


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## CitizenPromaster

And this is me browsing auctions with a Buyout option


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

Finally, long awaited Citizen Galileo.
Very good condition. Was sold as is, with a decomposing strap 😆
Found a box with the manual from another seller and got it as well. Now i have full set. 
The strap is from ebay, NOS 18mm "Bond" styled leather strap. 




http://imgur.com/a/g5GMzFz


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## ElGhurafiy

Well, the Yen value has dropped and it is a very good time to do some shopping at Buyee.


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## Ziptie

ElGhurafiy said:


> Well, the Yen value has dropped and it is a very good time to do some shopping at Buyee.


Ugh. Glad there’s nothing I’m after right now!


----------



## ElGhurafiy

Ziptie said:


> Ugh. Glad there’s nothing I’m after right now!


Well, I wasn't after anything as as well, but after 2 hours of digging I found something 🤣🤣🤣🤣. My wallet hates me, or actually my card.


----------



## Verdict

Found a Citizen I've been looking for at a fair price on Buyee, but technically it's a used watch that never has been worn - while it was never sold, apparently it was only used for photography, and they specifically state that there are no major scratches. It's a fair price but I'm not sure I trust them enough. It looks brand new with some fingerprint smudges and I see some tiny hairline scratches on the case, but it's coated with duratect so it shouldn't be a problem. 

What do you guys think?


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## sky21

Verdict said:


> Found a Citizen I've been looking for at a fair price on Buyee, but technically it's a used watch that never has been worn - while it was never sold, apparently it was only used for photography, and they specifically state that there are no major scratches. It's a fair price but I'm not sure I trust them enough. It looks brand new with some fingerprint smudges and I see some tiny hairline scratches on the case, but it's coated with duratect so it shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> What do you guys think?


If it’s a fair price as you say then just how perfect do you want it to be? Are you planning to wear it? If so then tiny hairline scratches should not matter at all I would think. Just wipe off the fingerprints. The sellers on Buyee tend to make their watches sound in much worse condition that they actually are and they don’t seem to clean them to be photographed either.


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## Ziptie

sky21 said:


> If it’s a fair price as you say then just how perfect do you want it to be? Are you planning to wear it? If so then tiny hairline scratches should not matter at all I would think. Just wipe off the fingerprints. The sellers on Buyee tend to make their watches sound in much worse condition that they actually are and they don’t seem to clean them to be photographed either.


This has been my experience as well. It might be a cultural thing. They want to very strongly clarify that the product is not perfect so they go into excruciating detail. If it’s a piece you like at a good price, go for it! Don’t forget to factor in the cost of shipping.


----------



## ElGhurafiy

Verdict said:


> Found a Citizen I've been looking for at a fair price on Buyee, but technically it's a used watch that never has been worn - while it was never sold, apparently it was only used for photography, and they specifically state that there are no major scratches. It's a fair price but I'm not sure I trust them enough. It looks brand new with some fingerprint smudges and I see some tiny hairline scratches on the case, but it's coated with duratect so it shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> What do you guys think?


The Yen value increased a bit, but still relatively low.. You should consider it before pricing goes up!


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## CitizenPromaster

I wouldn't worry about "trust" too much. If the seller doesn't ship it to Buyee, you get your money back (after 30 days). If you want Buyee to check if it is the correct item and the condition is as described, select the Standard Plan for 500 yen and that is covered too, as well as insurance on the international shipping (not the shipping fee itself). So there is no risk really. If the photos are clear, all you have to trust is your eyes.

I don't even want to say how many watches I've bought from Japan by now, and I have rarely been disappointed. Only the packaging has been disappointing a few times, and even that you can prevent by opting for the protective packaging service, and then they really go crazy with the plastic padding!

The only real risk is that you end up buying a lot of watches from Japan. This thread is Yahooholics Anonymous.


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

I am grateful i discovered this thread. Although i purchased more than i would've without knowing about buyee, i got to handle jdm watches i would've never had opportunity to. 


Anyway, just recently i got not one but 2 Casio Protrek watches, very similar models, PRW 60 (as good as new) and PRW 30 (unworn). Getting into high functionality watches recently and these two are right up my alley. Not aure if i would keep both but would definitely need to move some watches in my collection since it's blowing up in size.


----------



## Verdict

sky21 said:


> If it’s a fair price as you say then just how perfect do you want it to be? Are you planning to wear it? If so then tiny hairline scratches should not matter at all I would think. Just wipe off the fingerprints. The sellers on Buyee tend to make their watches sound in much worse condition that they actually are and they don’t seem to clean them to be photographed either.





Ziptie said:


> This has been my experience as well. It might be a cultural thing. They want to very strongly clarify that the product is not perfect so they go into excruciating detail. If it’s a piece you like at a good price, go for it! Don’t forget to factor in the cost of shipping.





CitizenPromaster said:


> I wouldn't worry about "trust" too much. If the seller doesn't ship it to Buyee, you get your money back (after 30 days). If you want Buyee to check if it is the correct item and the condition is as described, select the Standard Plan for 500 yen and that is covered too, as well as insurance on the international shipping (not the shipping fee itself). So there is no risk really. If the photos are clear, all you have to trust is your eyes.
> 
> I don't even want to say how many watches I've bought from Japan by now, and I have rarely been disappointed. Only the packaging has been disappointing a few times, and even that you can prevent by opting for the protective packaging service, and then they really go crazy with the plastic padding!
> 
> The only real risk is that you end up buying a lot of watches from Japan. This thread is Yahooholics Anonymous.


Thanks for the advice - unfortunately the seller has a "bidder rating restriction" so I can't buy the watch I wanted. Which is a bit silly because I thought Buyee places the bid on your behalf?

edit: Just placed a "snipe" on two bids. Fingers crossed...


----------



## sky21

Verdict said:


> Thanks for the advice - unfortunately the seller has a "bidder rating restriction" so I can't buy the watch I wanted. Which is a bit silly because I thought Buyee places the bid on your behalf?
> 
> edit: Just placed a "snipe" on two bids. Fingers crossed...


Good luck on your first Yahoo Japan purchase, I can almost guarantee it won’t be your last as it’s Very addicting!! Some sellers won’t let people bid if they have no purchase history, once you have successfully purchased something you should be able to buy nearly anything you want.


----------



## Verdict

sky21 said:


> Good luck on your first Yahoo Japan purchase, I can almost guarantee it won’t be your last as it’s Very addicting!! Some sellers won’t let people bid if they have no purchase history, once you have successfully purchased something you should be able to buy nearly anything you want.


Then my snipes probably won't be valid. Shame.


----------



## ElGhurafiy

Verdict said:


> Then my snipes probably won't be valid. Shame.


If you are able to bid/snipe you are just fine. 

I have just created another account for the 5k yen shipping discount and everything went smoothly! 

Try buying from Mercari, most sellers ship the items at their cost! So it will be even cheaper for you!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I’m not aware of the “bidder rating restriction” applying to Buyee, because as you say, they bid on your behalf. Some Yahoo sellers don’t accept bids by proxy services like Buyee, but Buyee will tell you that in red text at the top of the auction. Some auctions are blocked because of a trigger word in the description (like “crocodile leather”), but you can ask Buyee to investigate if they can unblock it.


----------



## Verdict

CitizenPromaster said:


> I’m not aware of the “bidder rating restriction” applying to Buyee, because as you say, they bid on your behalf. Some Yahoo sellers don’t accept bids by proxy services like Buyee, but Buyee will tell you that in red text at the top of the auction. Some auctions are blocked because of a trigger word in the description (like “crocodile leather”), but you can ask Buyee to investigate if they can unblock it.


I'm not sure either - that's literally just the message I got when I tried to place a regular bid for the watch. When I tried again it just gave me an error page. But when I placed a snipe bid it went through. Fingers crossed it's gone through because it's a good deal. 

The auction ends tonight so I'll be checking.


----------



## Verdict

I've got my eyes on a Citizen that ends in 1 day with 30 bids at 8,250 yen with 60 watchers. I have a bid on a like-new version of the same exact watch for about 90,000 yen. I doubt it'll stay that low, but I set my snipe for about 3 times the current bid.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Verdict said:


> I've got my eyes on a Citizen that ends in 1 day with 30 bids at 8,250 yen with 60 watchers. I have a bid on a like-new version of the same exact watch for about 90,000 yen. I doubt it'll stay that low, but I set my snipe for about 3 times the current bid.


I can understand the secrecy, but we could advice you better if we know what you are after. If it is not a rare watch, there will usually be a better deal if you are willing to wait a few months and spend some hours searching Buyee.
Not many of us buy 90k yen watches anyway, so I doubt there will be many competitors here.


----------



## Verdict

CitizenPromaster said:


> I can understand the secrecy, but we could advice you better if we know what you are after. If it is not a rare watch, there will usually be a better deal if you are willing to wait a few months and spend some hours searching Buyee.
> Not many of us buy 90k yen watches anyway, so I doubt there will be many competitors here.


Thanks - I've had my eyes on this watch for at least 5 years now, back when it was readily available brand new around ~$1,000 USD on the grey market. I've missed quite a few opportunities to buy this at a good price, and the next best price for this one brand new I can find is over 50% more. At ~$750 USD for what essentially is a new example of this watch, I won't be waiting this time around as it is the lowest price I've seen for it. 

That being said, if my snipe bid ends up being invalid for whatever reason or I get outbid, I'd be happy to let it go.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Ok, hope it works out for you. You can always contact Buyee Customer Service to make sure if you can or cannot bid on it. Sometimes they even respond in the weekend, even though they officially don't outside of Japanese business hours. They seem to have hired some Asians or Eastern Europeans or both to work shifts at other hours.


----------



## Verdict

CitizenPromaster said:


> Ok, hope it works out for you. You can always contact Buyee Customer Service to make sure if you can or cannot bid on it. Sometimes they even respond in the weekend, even though they officially don't outside of Japanese business hours. They seem to have hired some Asians or Eastern Europeans or both to work shifts at other hours.


Thanks. I just sent them a message. The auction will likely end before they reply to me, but it's worth a shot. I've also got my eyes on a similar spec'd watch from Seiko which is a little more expensive, so if I can't buy the Citizen, I might go for the Seiko. Really tempted to buy it out at 128000 yen, but where's the fun in that?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Verdict said:


> I've got my eyes on a Citizen that ends in 1 day with 30 bids at 8,250 yen with 60 watchers. I have a bid on a like-new version of the same exact watch for about 90,000 yen. I doubt it'll stay that low, but I set my snipe for about 3 times the current bid.


As I think someone mentioned before in this thread, in Japan Yahoo sellers have no obligation to sell to the highest bid. So they can start at 1 yen with a buy-out of 100k yen, and if they don't like the highest bid, they just relist.

I personally stay away from these sellers. You can usually recognize them by stock photos or photos with logos/text in them.

When private sellers or pawn shops ended up with a very low highest bid, so far they have always delivered the watch to me.


----------



## Verdict

4 more minutes left on the bid - bid and snipe options are greyed out, so it looks like I won't be able to buy this one. Also the tracker still says 0 bids, so I guess my snipe wasn't valid either.


----------



## Verdict

Ah, I should've done more research - FromJapan and Zenmarket also offer the same services as Buyee, and don't have the bidder rating restriction from what I see. Hopefully the seller will relist.


----------



## sky21

Verdict said:


> Ah, I should've done more research - FromJapan and Zenmarket also offer the same services as Buyee, and don't have the bidder rating restriction from what I see. Hopefully the seller will relist.


Good luck on your purchase, you will be a JDM pro in no time!


----------



## Verdict

sky21 said:


> Good luck on your purchase, you will be a JDM pro in no time!


Thanks. Though Buyee does allow you to directly link your Paypal without having to deposit funds like FromJapan or Zenmarket.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Buyee and Zenmarket are compared at length in this thread, so it pays to read the entire thead 🤗


----------



## Verdict

CitizenPromaster said:


> Buyee and Zenmarket are compared at length in this thread, so it pays to read the entire thead 🤗


Yes I am aware other sites were talked about, though I wasn't too keen on depositing hundreds of dollars, so I went with Buyee. I thought the bidder restriction thing was just some sort of error, and seeing as how I was able to place a snipe bid, I figured it wasn't problem.


----------



## Verdict

By the way, do sellers on Yahoo Japan commonly relist unsold items, or do they just sort of give up?


----------



## ElGhurafiy

Verdict said:


> By the way, do sellers on Yahoo Japan commonly relist unsold items, or do they just sort of give up?


Yes they do most of the times (sometimes they reduce the prices)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Verdict said:


> Yes I am aware other sites were talked about, though I wasn't too keen on depositing hundreds of dollars, so I went with Buyee. I thought the bidder restriction thing was just some sort of error, and seeing as how I was able to place a snipe bid, I figured it wasn't problem.


I wasn’t implying you didn’t read everything, just warning the lurkers out there.

I prefer Buyee for the Paypal linking too. And the deposit fee makes expensive watches unattractive via Zenmarket.


----------



## Verdict

CitizenPromaster said:


> I wasn’t implying you didn’t read everything, just warning the lurkers out there.
> 
> I prefer Buyee for the Paypal linking too. And the deposit fee makes expensive watches unattractive via Zenmarket.


No I didn't mean that - I just didn't realize Buyee would have such a ridiculous bidding restriction so I didn't even bother with researching other sites too much. Buyee seemed to be quite straightforward to use, cheap, and had no deposit so I just went with that. 

Anyway, I decided with ~7 minutes left on the other Seiko watch I was looking at to wait for the Citizen to come up again for sale. The Seiko is actually much better of a deal compared to the Citizen, but it was polished stainless steel instead of duratect alpha-coated titanium, so I decided not to go for it.


----------



## Verdict

There's a used example of the same Citizen ending in 24 hours that is currently at 16,000yen in very condition. If it stays under ~40,000yen I might buy it.


----------



## Ziptie

Verdict said:


> The Seiko is actually much better of a deal compared to the Citizen, but it was polished stainless steel instead of duratect alpha-coated titanium, so I decided not to go for it.


There are a lot of watches made out of stainless that are cheaper than titanium, yet many of us seem addicted to the titanium… ;-)


----------



## Verdict

ElGhurafiy said:


> Yes they do most of the times (sometimes they reduce the prices)


Well, what do you know. The seller did relist, and reduced the price. The only issue is that now I have to wait 6 more days before it ends, and there's no buyout option.

I also have my eyes on a used version of the watch that is going for half price, and another version of the watch in a different color, also used, going for a third of the new price.

Both are in excellent condition too.

_sigh_ Decisions, decisions.


----------



## Verdict

Also, is it a better idea to make a bid early on or within 24 hours?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I'm very sorry for your troubles Verdict  There are differing theories on what is the best bidding strategy. When the opening bid is low and I really want the watch, I like to go in early and hard to scare others off, which has worked out great a few times, because like Sun Tzu says in The Art of War: "Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

And: "If we do not wish to fight, we can prevent the enemy from engaging us even though the lines of our encampment be merely traced out on the ground. All we need do is to throw something odd and unaccountable in his way."

He also writes: "Thus we may know that there are five essentials for victory: (1) He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. (2) He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces. (3) He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks. (4) He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared. (5) He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign."

He says some interesting things you know: Sun Tzu on the Art of War (fas.org) I adapted it for The Art of Bidding


----------



## CitizenPromaster

My most recent purchase was shipped by the seller yesterday (Saturday) afternoon, and to my surprise it arrived at the Buyee warehouse today (Sunday) at 06:30 am Tokyo time (?), of which they notified me! I guess the Buyee warehouse works on Sundays?


----------



## Fordehouse

I had my latest delivery in 4 days from Tokyo to Canberra and delivered today ( Sunday)


----------



## Verdict

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm very sorry for your troubles Verdict  There are differing theories on what is the best bidding strategy. When the opening bid is low and I really want the watch, I like to go in early and hard to scare others off, which has worked out great a few times, because like Sun Tzu says in The Art of War: "Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
> 
> And: "If we do not wish to fight, we can prevent the enemy from engaging us even though the lines of our encampment be merely traced out on the ground. All we need do is to throw something odd and unaccountable in his way."
> 
> He also writes: "Thus we may know that there are five essentials for victory: (1) He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. (2) He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces. (3) He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks. (4) He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared. (5) He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign."
> 
> He says some interesting things you know: Sun Tzu on the Art of War (fas.org) I adapted it for The Art of Bidding


Wow, thanks.

I totally understand why you'd make an early bid, but I plan on paying as close to the starting bidding price as close as possible. I think bidding in small increments will only invite a challenge from other buyers to do the same, which I want to avoid. 

This seller has had many watches that ended with 0 bids - I think bidding within 24 hours is a safe bet. 

If push comes to shove, I'll deposit money on either FromJapan or Zenmarket if Buyee doesn't want to cooperate.


----------



## Verdict

CitizenPromaster said:


> My most recent purchase was shipped by the seller yesterday (Saturday) afternoon, and to my surprise it arrived at the Buyee warehouse today (Sunday) at 06:30 am Tokyo time (?), of which they notified me! I guess the Buyee warehouse works on Sundays?


As you said, Buyee responded to my message about bidding even on a weekend, so I think they do work on off days as well. Maybe the lack of business because of shipping delays have changed their working hours. 



Fordehouse said:


> I had my latest delivery in 4 days from Tokyo to Canberra and delivered today ( Sunday)


That is excellent to hear. I am not too far from you so hopefully any watches I win will be shipped in that timeframe.


----------



## Verdict

CitizenPromaster said:


> As I think someone mentioned before in this thread, in Japan Yahoo sellers have no obligation to sell to the highest bid. So they can start at 1 yen with a buy-out of 100k yen, and if they don't like the highest bid, they just relist.
> 
> I personally stay away from these sellers. You can usually recognize them by stock photos or photos with logos/text in them.


Spot on. Great advice. One of the Seikos I was looking at as an alternative to the Citizen I was watching last night was relisted with the same exact buyout price from the seller. My guess is that they didn't like the final bid and cancelled. However to be fair ,the final bidding price wasn't far off from the buy-out price at all, there was only a <$200 USD gap, so the winning bidder may have flaked.

But then this also happened to another one of their Seikos, so it might be just a greedy seller. 

They even had the stock photo as you mentioned.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Verdict said:


> Spot on. Great advice. One of the Seikos I was looking at as an alternative to the Citizen I was watching last night was relisted with the same exact buyout price from the seller. My guess is that they didn't like the final bid and cancelled. However to be fair ,the final bidding price wasn't far off from the buy-out price at all, there was only a <$200 USD gap, so the winning bidder may have flaked.
> 
> But then this also happened to another one of their Seikos, so it might be just a greedy seller.
> 
> They even had the stock photo as you mentioned.


I wouldn't be surprised if they don't keep stock and just buy the watch after they have "sold" it to you.


----------



## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> My most recent purchase was shipped by the seller yesterday (Saturday) afternoon, and to my surprise it arrived at the Buyee warehouse today (Sunday) at 06:30 am Tokyo time (?), of which they notified me! I guess the Buyee warehouse works on Sundays?


Was it SSOL-Sell that you bought it from? It seems they always have it over to the Buyee warehouse in a day. I have noticed that items sometimes show up at the Buyee warehouse hours before Buyee gets around to emailing you that they are here. 3 times I have checked the Buyee page and saw my packages have arrived. I went ahead and selected them to be sent to me and got an email confirmation on this. 7 hours later i got an email saying the items have arrived.


----------



## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they don't keep stock and just buy the watch after they have "sold" it to you.


I don't really believe this happens with Yahoo Japan sellers. However i know this happens on eBay as several sellers have the exact same item picture and in a couple of cases, I have bought the item using Buyee and these sellers had to end the auctions of the item. I know it is not the same seller as the item is listed on eBay from a seller from Osaka or Sapporo and the item came from a seller in Tokyo


----------



## Ziptie

Verdict said:


> Also, is it a better idea to make a bid early on or within 24 hours?


Many of the body auctions have a flag set to extend the auction by 5 minutes if there’s bids within the last minute, or similar. This tends to prevent last-minute bidding wars. You could enter a snipe bid if you’re interested in that, but I haven’t run into too much competition on most of the pieces I’ve been interested in.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

journeyforce said:


> Was it SSOL-Sell that you bought it from? It seems they always have it over to the Buyee warehouse in a day. I have noticed that items sometimes show up at the Buyee warehouse hours before Buyee gets around to emailing you that they are here. 3 times I have checked the Buyee page and saw my packages have arrived. I went ahead and selected them to be sent to me and got an email confirmation on this. 7 hours later i got an email saying the items have arrived.


No, not ssoll-sell but a private individual. Yes, the e-mails usually get sent end of Japanese business day, long after the thing they inform you about happened.


journeyforce said:


> I don't really believe this happens with Yahoo Japan sellers. However i know this happens on eBay as several sellers have the exact same item picture and in a couple of cases, I have bought the item using Buyee and these sellers had to end the auctions of the item. I know it is not the same seller as the item is listed on eBay from a seller from Osaka or Sapporo and the item came from a seller in Tokyo


Scalpers everywhere, why not on Yahoo? I have no proof though, just a hunch.


----------



## Aussiehoudini

Just got the "arrived at warehouse" message. . Would normally make me take action but I accidentally won another auction yesterday so now have to wait, haha.


----------



## Verdict

Alright I just won my first auction!

Not a Citizen, but a used Grand Seiko HAQ. 

Once it arrives, I'll have to send it off for third party Zaratsu polishing in Europe, then get the movement overhauled for that sweet +/-10SPY goodness. 

I used FromJapan instead of Buyee because I liked FJ's real time countdown timer. 

You can link your CC directly to FJ.

Anyway, I'm off these proxy bidding services until the Citizen auction comes close to an end. 

I haven't bought a new watch since 2019, and I recently sold an Orient Star. I wanted to sell another one of my Seikos too but couldn't find a buyer.


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

guys, need advice. bought couple of watches (bit under 200€) + couple of things (under 20€). looks like japan air mail is not accepting parcels for now. thinking of shipping with dhl, consolidating all items, adding protective packaging, and paying buttload of taxes. or, shipping separately? waiting for airmail to start accepting packages? what do you think?


----------



## lkleinow

CitizenPromaster said:


> I adapted it for The Art of Bidding


I didn't know I needed this until now.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> guys, need advice. bought couple of watches (bit under 200€) + couple of things (under 20€). looks like japan air mail is not accepting parcels for now. thinking of shipping with dhl, consolidating all items, adding protective packaging, and paying buttload of taxes. or, shipping separately? waiting for airmail to start accepting packages? what do you think?


I have been shipping things seperately with Registered Small Package(AIR), which Japan Post still accepts, because I'm too cheap to pay for DHL/Fedex. Last few months it took three weeks for Japan Post to put them on a plane, but this week I shipped some watches that were put on a plane the next day.

This shipping option is not much more expensive than consolidating, because the weight remains low, but Buyee just puts the watch/item as shipped by the seller in a green paper envelop (sellers often use letter packs), unless it came to them in a bigger box hat they can reuse, and one of my watches was shipped by Buyee with only one thin layer of bubble wrap in a paper envelop, so it's a miracle it didn't get damaged. The other watches had decent bubble wrap/cardboard coverings from the seller so it was fine that they were put in a paper envelop.

When you consolidate, they put the paper envelopes and/or boxes in a bigger box with padding, so adding protective packaging to that makes little sense.

I pay 21% VAT whether I consolidate or not, so it is not a factor for me.

I had switched to Registered Small Package (AIR) long ago anyway, because it's very cheap and EMS wasn't faster anyway.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

lkleinow said:


> I didn't know I needed this until now.


Forewarned is forearmed.


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> I have been shipping things seperately with Registered Small Package(AIR), which Japan Post still accepts, because I'm too cheap to pay for DHL/Fedex. Last few months it took three weeks for Japan Post to put them on a plane, but this week I shipped some watches that were put on a plane the next day.
> 
> This shipping option is not much more expensive than consolidating, because the weight remains low, but Buyee just puts the watch/item as shipped by the seller in a green paper envelop (sellers often use letter packs), unless it came to them in a bigger box hat they can reuse, and one of my watches was shipped by Buyee with only one thin layer of bubble wrap in a paper envelop, so it's a miracle it didn't get damaged. The other watches had decent bubble wrap/cardboard coverings from the seller so it was fine that they were put in a paper envelop.
> 
> When you consolidate, they put the paper envelopes and/or boxes in a bigger box with padding, so adding protective packaging to that makes little sense.
> 
> I pay 21% VAT whether I consolidate or not, so it is not a factor for me.
> 
> I had switched to Registered Small Package (AIR) long ago anyway, because it's very cheap and EMS wasn't faster anyway.


i only have 2 options, by sea or DHL 
i was also using Registered Small Package(AIR) recently, delivery time was acceptable and taxes were much lower than DHL. still have like 27 days of storage, maybe will wait till Registered Small Package(AIR) would be available again.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> i only have 2 options, by sea or DHL
> i was also using Registered Small Package(AIR) recently, delivery time was acceptable and taxes were much lower than DHL. still have like 27 days of storage, maybe will wait till Registered Small Package(AIR) would be available again.
> 
> View attachment 16542959


That just sucks. Then I don't know what to tell you


----------



## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> No, not ssoll-sell but a private individual. Yes, the e-mails usually get sent end of Japanese business day, long after the thing they inform you about happened.
> 
> Scalpers everywhere, why not on Yahoo? I have no proof though, just a hunch.


You could be correct. But they are low key ones verses the ones on eBay that have 5 listings at different prices for the exact same item


----------



## Verdict

Just got outbid on an older The Citizen that I had my eyes on. It was in very good condition, even better than the GS I won the other day, but because I won the GS, I decided not to save some $$ and not go ahead with The Citizen.


----------



## Verdict

Has anyone ever used FromJapan here? I won an auction on it, but I've only received automated emails saying that I've won and that they've taken my payment. No other notification whatsoever. Is this normal for proxy bidding services?


----------



## Tiribos

P u t i n e


----------



## Tiribos

and EMS, Japan air mail, no longer delivers since March 8


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

Tiribos said:


> View attachment 16547108
> 
> P u t i n e


where is this from? directly from yahoo japan? AFAIK it doesn't affect buyee and other proxies, does it?


----------



## Tiribos

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> where is this from? directly from yahoo japan? AFAIK it doesn't affect buyee and other proxies, does it?











proxies afected


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

Tiribos said:


> View attachment 16547212
> 
> proxies afected


hm, how would they be affected though? when you use buyee you order from yahoo jp to an address in japan. after the product hits the buyee warehouse buyee operates independently from yahoo or any other platforms they let you shop at.


----------



## Tiribos

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> hm, how would they be affected though? when you use buyee you order from yahoo jp to an address in japan. after the product hits the buyee warehouse buyee operates independently from yahoo or any other platforms they let you shop at.


difficult to place an order when the images are no longer displayed


----------



## Gl3nS1m0n

Tiribos said:


> difficult to place an order when the images are no longer displayed
> 
> View attachment 16547281


****ing hell


----------



## CitizenPromaster

No need to panic yet, we access buyee.jp, not yahoo.jp, and the images get re-uploaded by Buyee, as you can see by the url below as I hovered over the image.









So I don't think anything changes for us. I have been getting some NO IMAGE being displayed today, but when you F5 the page, they do appear.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Tiribos said:


> difficult to place an order when the images are no longer displayed
> 
> View attachment 16547281


Just re-load the page (F5) until they appear, pas de problème.


----------



## Tiribos

CitizenPromaster said:


> Just re-load the page (F5) until they appear, pas de problème.


ok


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Anyone looking for the CC5005-68Z?
【世界限定800本】シチズン CITIZEN プロマスター PROMASTER | Shop at Mercari from Japan! | Buyee bot-online


----------



## Verdict

Hi all, just a quick update (not that anyone cares, but whatever)

1. The GS I won fell through, so no GS for me.
2. I got outbid on the Citizen watch I was looking at. There were 7 minutes left in the bid and I forget to check back. However, after some reconsideration, I think the watch itself is quite thick and the dial is bit busy to look at, so I think I'm going to be passing on it for good.

In case anyone was wondering, here's the oh-so-secretive model I was looking at (CC9015):










Some Seiko Astrons have the same three sub-dial layout, but some are less busy to look at. Of course, they're all significantly more expensive,

This one was a steal at ~90,000 yen, and while it was a fantastic deal, losing the bid help me reconsider this watch and what I really wanted in a watch.

I want a sensible, simple, tough everyday quartz watch, and a simple three hander dressy-ish watch on a bracelet, and this fits neither of those categories.

I'm thinking about the AT6080 again, but I'm not sure I want to rely on the JJY signal emulator. Also on the lookout for a fairly priced, minty The Citizen HAQ.


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## CitizenPromaster

We care, bro, we all share our stories of watch addiction, and it seems you made a breakthrough


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## Verdict

CitizenPromaster said:


> We care, bro, we all share our stories of watch addiction, and it seems you made a breakthrough


Thanks for caring!  But moreso for introducing this service to us as well. Seriously - it's changed the way I look at and buy watches, especially JDM ones.


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## CitizenPromaster

Verdict said:


> Thanks for caring!  But moreso for introducing this service to us as well. Seriously - it's changed the way I look at and buy watches, especially JDM ones.


My pleasure, but I bet some people were a little PO'd that I spilled the beans on their "secret" market place, but like I said before in this thread, there are more than enough watches on Yahoo for all of us. And if their hustle was buying cheap on Yahoo and selling expensive on WUS or eBay, then I don't feel sorry for them. And flipping JDM watches is still possible, because despite this thread relatively few people know about proxies, and some may know but remain unwilling to use them.


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## ElGhurafiy

Verdict said:


> Hi all, just a quick update (not that anyone cares, but whatever)
> 
> 1. The GS I won fell through, so no GS for me.
> 2. I got outbid on the Citizen watch I was looking at. There were 7 minutes left in the bid and I forget to check back. However, after some reconsideration, I think the watch itself is quite thick and the dial is bit busy to look at, so I think I'm going to be passing on it for good.
> 
> In case anyone was wondering, here's the oh-so-secretive model I was looking at (CC9015):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some Seiko Astrons have the same three sub-dial layout, but some are less busy to look at. Of course, they're all significantly more expensive,
> 
> This one was a steal at ~90,000 yen, and while it was a fantastic deal, losing the bid help me reconsider this watch and what I really wanted in a watch.
> 
> I want a sensible, simple, tough everyday quartz watch, and a simple three hander dressy-ish watch on a bracelet, and this fits neither of those categories.
> 
> I'm thinking about the AT6080 again, but I'm not sure I want to rely on the JJY signal emulator. Also on the lookout for a fairly priced, minty The Citizen HAQ.


AT6080!!! 

Just sold mine yesterday, a very nice and good everyday watch. I wish it was a bit bigger, I would've kept it. 










Look into some attesa ACT line


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## Verdict

ElGhurafiy said:


> AT6080!!!
> 
> Just sold mine yesterday, a very nice and good everyday watch. I wish it was a bit bigger, I would've kept it.
> 
> View attachment 16555819
> 
> 
> Look into some attesa ACT line


I'm ok with the size, but I don't get RC signal and it doesn't feel right buying for something I won't be able to fully utilize. I know there are emulators.


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## ElGhurafiy

Verdict said:


> I'm ok with the size, but I don't get RC signal and it doesn't feel right buying for something I won't be able to fully utilize. I know there are emulators.


I really didn't care for the RC feature. I like the watch overall and colors. It is a good watch go for it.


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## Verdict

Ever get a sense of relief someone outbids you because something else that has caught your interest?

I'm looking at 2 auctions right now that will definitely end up over 90,000 yen and obviously I can't buy both - one has a buyout price of over 110,000 yen. Both end in two days. I can only make a bid one one when I get outbid on something else in case I end up winning both auctions. How annoying! I don't know which I want more - one's a rarer model that goes for a lot more new and is in mint condition despite it being used, and the other is a brand new grey market model. 

The seller of the 110,000 buyout price auction has relisted this auction twice in the past week, and they say in the description that they may cancel the auction if they don't get the price they want - which I assume is the buyout price. I think I might just go for the buyout price because even though the other auction is rarer and more desirable, it's technically used and doesn't have enough links.


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## CitizenPromaster

You know what your problem is, Verdict? You have expensive taste!


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## Gl3nS1m0n

most pictures on yahoo.jp via buyee are not loading for me still.

also for some reason my items that hit the warehouse at leat a week ago still show as "30 days left" and it's been like that for days.


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## CitizenPromaster

The pics don't load for me either, but I hit F5 (reload page) and then they do. It is a bit of pain when scrolling through many pages, but in the end it works.


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## ElGhurafiy

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> most pictures on yahoo.jp via buyee are not loading for me still.
> 
> also for some reason my items that hit the warehouse at leat a week ago still show as "30 days left" and it's been like that for days.


Just reload the page. 

The 30 days left issue is common, I have that as well but I don't care because I rarely consolidate.


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## Verdict

CitizenPromaster said:


> You know what your problem is, Verdict? You have expensive taste!


I guess you could say you're right - I have GS taste with a Seiko 5 budget 

To be fair I haven't bought a watch since 2019, so I'm willing to splurge a little more this time around. I don't usually buy watches in this price range!


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## Triku

Verdict said:


> Hi all, just a quick update (not that anyone cares, but whatever)
> 
> 1. The GS I won fell through, so no GS for me.
> 2. I got outbid on the Citizen watch I was looking at. There were 7 minutes left in the bid and I forget to check back. However, after some reconsideration, I think the watch itself is quite thick and the dial is bit busy to look at, so I think I'm going to be passing on it for good.
> 
> In case anyone was wondering, here's the oh-so-secretive model I was looking at (CC9015):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some Seiko Astrons have the same three sub-dial layout, but some are less busy to look at. Of course, they're all significantly more expensive,
> 
> This one was a steal at ~90,000 yen, and while it was a fantastic deal, losing the bid help me reconsider this watch and what I really wanted in a watch.
> 
> I want a sensible, simple, tough everyday quartz watch, and a simple three hander dressy-ish watch on a bracelet, and this fits neither of those categories.
> 
> I'm thinking about the AT6080 again, but I'm not sure I want to rely on the JJY signal emulator. Also on the lookout for a fairly priced, minty The Citizen HAQ.


I really like the C9015 but even more the CC4015, also GPS. 
Both are great watches but big and thick although with a good L2L to wear them comfortably. 
However, the AT6080 is a perfect watch for day-to-day use or as a stand-alone watch. I have a PMD56-2952 and have owned a 2951. Both are awesome. At first they seemed small to me, but they no longer come out of my wrist. I have an AT8181 that receives a bad signal here in Spain, but I adjust it with JJYEmulator in three minutes without any problem. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy the AT6080. Now I have another Citizen Promaster on the way, damn Yahoo auctions. I know I will buy the green PMD56 again and keep it in the collection.


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## Verdict

Triku said:


> I really like the C9015 but even more the CC4015, also GPS.
> Both are great watches but big and thick although with a good L2L to wear them comfortably.
> However, the AT6080 is a perfect watch for day-to-day use or as a stand-alone watch. I have a PMD56-2952 and have owned a 2951. Both are awesome. At first they seemed small to me, but they no longer come out of my wrist. I have an AT8181 that receives a bad signal here in Spain, but I adjust it with JJYEmulator in three minutes without any problem. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy the AT6080. Now I have another Citizen Promaster on the way, damn Yahoo auctions. I know I will buy the green PMD56 again and keep it in the collection.


The CC4015 is nice but it's 15mm thick, thicker than CC9015, and thicker than even most Seiko Astron models with similar functions. 

The AT6080 is nice but 3 minutes is a long time to hear that annoying beeping!


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## CitizenPromaster

Another new experience today. I have seen all bids being cancelled on a Yahoo listing *after it ends* because a seller doesn't like the maximum bid, but before today I hadn't seen the bids being partially cancelled *during the auction*. I was outbid on a watch a few days ago, and yesterday it was at a few thousand above my highest bid, then today I checked again and it was like 900 yen lower than yesterday! So I bid 500 yen higher, and I won the auction despite it being lower than yesterday's highest bid! Very odd. Nothing strange about the seller though, so I'm not worried.


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## Tim86seiko

I just started on buyee last week, Iam pretty sure that it's the crack cocaine equivalent for watch collectors.


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## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster said:


> I should also warn you that once you cross the Buyee line, you can fall down the rabbit hole very quickly. It is addictive and can turn out to be very expensive!













Tim86seiko said:


> I just started on buyee last week, Iam pretty sure that it's the crack cocaine equivalent for watch collectors.


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## Tim86seiko

I don't remember you warning me about anything 🤣

That orient Lausanne only cost me 0.01 dollar by the way.

Biggest expense was the Seiko advan where I accidentally put a bid of 50.000 yen instead of 5000 so I nearly shat myself after I realized it whent up to 7000.
Luckily not a total loss since it's still a good price but they should really fix that reverse typing.


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## CitizenPromaster

Tim86seiko said:


> I don't remember you warning me about anything 🤣
> 
> That orient Lausanne only cost me 0.01 dollar by the way.
> 
> Biggest expense was the Seiko advan where I accidentally put a bid of 50.000 yen instead of 5000 so I nearly shat myself after I realized it whent up to 7000.
> Luckily not a total loss since it's still a good price but they should really fix that reverse typing.


Ah, but it was recently pointed out to me by fellow addict @Lepdiggums that you can rebid a lower amount to undo any number typos (or to select or deselect the Plan). As long as you are the highest bidder, you can change it back to the amount of your current bid.


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## Lepdiggums

Tim86seiko said:


> I just started on buyee last week, Iam pretty sure that it's the crack cocaine equivalent for watch collectors.
> 
> View attachment 16594620
> 
> View attachment 16594624
> 
> View attachment 16594625
> 
> View attachment 16594619
> 
> View attachment 16594623
> 
> View attachment 16594621
> 
> View attachment 16594622
> 
> View attachment 16594618


It totally is🤣🤣🤣 
Good luck beating this addiction😜👍


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## Gl3nS1m0n

Tim86seiko said:


> I don't remember you warning me about anything 🤣
> 
> That orient Lausanne only cost me 0.01 dollar by the way.
> 
> Biggest expense was the Seiko advan where I accidentally put a bid of 50.000 yen instead of 5000 so I nearly shat myself after I realized it whent up to 7000.
> Luckily not a total loss since it's still a good price but they should really fix that reverse typing.


that seiko advan is sick tho. always wanted a funky seiko like this in my collection.


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## Tim86seiko

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> that seiko advan is sick tho. always wanted a funky seiko like this in my collection.


Would've liked a red or green one more but it's still really nice.. it's the old 6106 aswell.


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## Verdict

Hi all, figured I'd update this thread as I finally bought something from Buyee.

I wanted a nicer Citizen/Seiko Satellite Wave or Astron with the dual time function or a HAQ from The Citizen/GS. I found a couple of new Astrons at around ~120,000 yen, but I thought the second timezone subdials were hard to read so I decided against them. The Citizen/GS watches are quite small at 36-38mm too, I wasn't sure I'd like the size so I didn't want to end up with something I didn't like.

I eventually found the GM-2100 metal "CasiOak" which perfectly satisfied my criteria of a thin beater watch with dual time. I even bought a metal bracelet for it, so now I've got something I've wanted for years - a tough, functional, but good looking beater. It was actually cheaper to buy in the EU than Japan, which was surprising.

I also wanted to test out a smaller sized watch to see if I'd like a smaller Citizen or GS HAQ, and I eventually came across the CB1090, which is ~38.5mm. It's an RC watch with anti-mag, 100M WR, sapphire, and I found a really good deal on it on it, brand new, as it was at least 10% cheaper than other sellers. It's also my first RC watch.

The 38.5mm size and thickness of the watch is perfect on my 7.5mm wrist but the raised rehaut and chapter ring make the dial look even smaller, which is a little disappointing. Also, while I can't receive a signal, the signal emulator app I used worked flawlessly, but it was a bit annoying because of the beeping. All in all, this watch has opened me up to smaller sizes of The Citizen/GS HAQs (so long as I buy one that is all dial) and is also my first experience with an RC watch.

The watch was a bargain at 28,300 yen with fees, and shipping cost me ~6,000 yen with DHL from Tokyo to my door in Melbourne. It was shipped on the 25th and it was delivered on the 28th. Of course the watch was in perfect condition and everything went smoothly.

Happy with my purchase and really pleased with Buyee. Thank you to everyone that helped!


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## CitizenPromaster

as if taping off the serial isn't silly enough on Citizens


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## CitizenPromaster

And they still put the taped off movement and case code in the auction title  I guess the person taking the photos is not the person creating the auctions.


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## Gl3nS1m0n

CitizenPromaster said:


> And they still put the taped off movement and case code in the auction title  I guess the person taking the photos is not the person creating the auctions.


i never understood why hide the SN anyway. what could happen?


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## CitizenPromaster

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> i never understood why hide the SN anyway. what could happen?


Some people think you will make a counterfeit watch using their serial, or try to sell a watch using their serial, both which are not likely.


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## journeyforce

CitizenPromaster said:


> Some people think you will make a counterfeit watch using their serial, or try to sell a watch using their serial, both which are not likely.


My favorite is when sellers cover the serial looking number on the case back of some G-Shocks because they are afraid that somebody will use the number in a illicit deal. However that is not a serial number but the batch number and there is probably 7000-8000 G-Shocks out there with the same batch number.


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## gemsandgoldjp

jvspin said:


> Thanks for the breakdown. Here's hoping you don't have to pay VAT! Exchange rate looks fine.


 Hi i have the same watch. And i wanna know the real price.. can anyone know the brand new price of this watch before? U600-t011110 citizen promaster eco-drive. 😊 TIA


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## CitizenPromaster

gemsandgoldjp said:


> Hi i have the same watch. And i wanna know the real price.. can anyone know the brand new price of this watch before? U600-t011110 citizen promaster eco-drive. 😊 TIA


It was 126,000 yen including tax, but many Japanese buyers probably got a 30% discount.


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## aafanatic

@gemsandgoldjp Welcome to the forum Here's a fun pic of my PMV65-2241


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## gemsandgoldjp

jvspin said:


> Thanks for the breakdown. Here's hoping you don't have to pay VAT! Exchange rate looks fine.





CitizenPromaster said:


> It was 126,000 yen including tax, but many Japanese buyers probably got a 30% discount.
> View attachment 16766479


Wow i guess i am lucky.. someone gave that to me but no battery.. i am planning to sell it once i bought the original one.. thank you for your response


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## gemsandgoldjp

aafanatic said:


> @gemsandgoldjp Welcome to the forum Here's a fun pic of my PMV65-2241


Thank you.. but i still don't know what kind of watch is this.. I'm pretty sure this one is not a diver's watch 🤔


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## CitizenPromaster

gemsandgoldjp said:


> Thank you.. but i still don't know what kind of watch is this.. I'm pretty sure this one is not a diver's watch 🤔


It's a watch for pilots and people who like to pretend they are pilots, like me. But with 20 bar water resistance you normally shouldn't have to worry about swimming.


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## journeyforce

One thing I noticed is that Buyee must use darts or the rolling of dice to figure out their Shipped Direct prices (shipped direct is option where you pay money upfront and that covers both the local shipping (from the seller to Buyee) and EMS international shipping so that once the package arrives to Buyee, they ship it out instead of the normal way where they get the package in and notify you to pick the shipping and then they ship. This basically cuts down on a step or two and gets it to quicker) Normally I cannot use this as I will spend an extra 1500 Yen to have the item have extra packaging because I never know how the original seller is going to ship the item and don't want it shipped in a padded envelope. The exception is 2nd Street Reuse Shop (ssol_sell) who ships every watch in a sturdy box.

There are times I go to use the Shipped Direct option and the cost is about $100 to use this option and this is for a light G-Shock with no box or accessories. So I don't use that option. Yet there are other times when go to use this option and I expect a high price because the watch and boxes are heavy (like a Citizen Promaster) and the cost is between $27-$40. This is the exact opposite of how it should be. I would expect the lighter one to be less then the heavier one.


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## argyle_underground

i've been browsing around yahoo jp auctions and i'm wondering are all citizen attessas equipped w/ sapphire crystals? and are they all radio controlled?

i understand their attessa line is a bit upper tier than the chandler and the brycen models - or am i wrong about that?


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## aafanatic

@argyle_underground Attesa is business class ($1000-$2000) Sapphire crystal, usually titanium and radio controlled or gps. On auctions they may not have the model number so it takes some hunting to figure out what your looking at. It’s a passion and an education. Some of us still see things there that we haven’t seen before that send us into research and longing 

PS make sure there are enough links as some of them don’t come with enough for western wrists


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## argyle_underground

aafanatic said:


> @argyle_underground Attesa is business class ($1000-$2000) Sapphire crystal, usually titanium and radio controlled or gps. On auctions they may not have the model number so it takes some hunting to figure out what your looking at. It’s a passion and an education. Some of us still see things there that we haven’t seen before that send us into research and longing
> 
> PS make sure there are enough links as some of them don’t come with enough for western wrists


you're right about the search for the correct model number. i've been scouring the net for several hours now and i still haven't found the true model designation for it.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

argyle_underground said:


> you're right about the search for the correct model number. i've been scouring the net for several hours now and i still haven't found the true model designation for it.


Show us a photo, collectively we know most of them.


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## argyle_underground

CitizenPromaster said:


> Show us a photo, collectively we know most of them.


here it is. i think it's an older model because of the recessed crown. and the atessa logo on it doesn't seem to be a feature in more recent releases.









ctto

btw, it's from another ad


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## CitizenPromaster

argyle_underground said:


> here it is. i think it's an older model because of the recessed crown. and the atessa logo on it doesn't seem to be a feature in more recent releases.
> 
> View attachment 16799315
> 
> ctto
> 
> btw, it's from another ad


It's the ATD53-2681 from 2006.









It had the same price and similar specs as the ATD53-2682 seen below, but the page for the 2861 has not been archived in the Internet Archive.


----------



## sky21

CitizenPromaster said:


> It's the ATD53-2681 from 2006.
> View attachment 16799363
> 
> 
> It had the same price and similar specs as the ATD53-2682 seen below, but the page for the 2861 has not been archived in the Internet Archive.
> 
> View attachment 16799352


I can add that this H41x series of movements are very user friendly and lead to very thin and light Attesa models if you enjoy that. They are JJY radio controlled only so I recommend that you download the Junghans app if you are you interested in syncing your watch easily. Also you will need to use a toothpick or something else similar to use the jumping independent hour hand while traveling. They are great watches that virtually disappear on wrist and have the awesome on the fly micro adjust clap that I wish was on every watch ever made.


----------



## argyle_underground

CitizenPromaster said:


> It's the ATD53-2681 from 2006.
> View attachment 16799363
> 
> 
> It had the same price and similar specs as the ATD53-2682 seen below, but the page for the 2861 has not been archived in the Internet Archive.
> 
> View attachment 16799352


wow... thanks for the info. that was fast!


----------



## argyle_underground

sky21 said:


> I can add that this H41x series of movements are very user friendly and lead to very thin and light Attesa models if you enjoy that. They are JJY radio controlled only so I recommend that you download the Junghans app if you are you interested in syncing your watch easily. Also you will need to use a toothpick or something else similar to use the jumping independent hour hand while traveling. They are great watches that virtually disappear on wrist and have the awesome on the fly micro adjust clap that I wish was on every watch ever made.


and another plus i like is its 39mm case size. recent citizen models are a bit big for my liking. 

the only drawback i see is that its bracelet is integrated. so that means no switching of straps w/c i do on occasion.


----------



## sky21

argyle_underground said:


> and another plus i like is its 39mm case size. recent citizen models are a bit big for my liking.
> 
> the only drawback i see is that its bracelet is integrated. so that means no switching of straps w/c i do on occasion.


Ah yes, the integrated bracelet is also extremely common on Attesa models. It does prevent strap changes but the bracelets are very well done and when combined with the smaller size and titanium they just work.


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## VincentG

Gl3nS1m0n said:


> i never understood why hide the SN anyway. what could happen?


A common SN "fear" is that an unscrupulous person could file a police report saying the watch was stolen from them and then point to your FS post as illegitimate.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Buyee just announced to drop all the fees that made it "more expensive" than zenmarket (payment fee and consolidation service fee), while still not having the deposit fee that zenmarket has, which should make Buyee cheaper overall.


14 Dec 2022
*Notice of Revision of International Shipping Rates and Waiving of Payment and Consolidation Fees*
Thank you for your continued support.

Effective December 21, 2022 at 12:00 p.m. (Japan Standard Time), with a revision of Buyee's international shipping rates, in response to many customers' requests, some of our service fees will be revised to more user-friendly prices.

The price revisions are as follows:

◆International shipping rates will be reviewed.
Please see below the updated rates.
Targeted shipping methods: Buyee Air Delivery, FedEx, DHL, ECMS

◆No payment fees on Yahoo! and Mercari, and Rakuma.
Before revision: 200 yen payment fee per successful bid/order
After revision: Free of charge

◆Waive of the consolidation service fee
Before revision: 500 yen/1,000 yen consolidation fee per package
After revision: Free of charge

We will continue to strive to provide services that satisfy our customers.
We look forward to your continued patronage.


----------

