# DC4 Purist with Sellita SW330 movement inside...Is it only me?



## jimmytamp

Dear all,

After I read one of the thread about Sellita movement inside one of the Glycine, so today after I came from my flight, I straight away took my DC4 & Airman 17 for an inspection. Before I read that thread, I never bother to check the movement because both watches I got from watchgooroo as Glycine authorized dealer, where the DC4 was acquired later (Oct 2017) than the Airman 17 (Aug 2017).

After I put on my head-wearing magnifier, this is what I found:

My Airman 17, has a printed 21 jewels & 2893-2 on the bottom of the movement (sorry for the blur picture):









On the other hand, my DC4, turn out to have 25 jewels printed instead of 21 jewels of ETA 2893. Also it says/printed SW330o| instead of 2893. Herewith some pictures:

































Any DC4 owners here have the same Sw330 in their watches?

Personally I don't have any problem with this moevment, infact it runs more accurate than my Airman 17, but if it advertised ETA2893, then it has to be 2893 inside.

Is this normal for the well known brand like Glycine to conduct such as business like this?

Should I "complaint" to watchgooro regarding this?

I suggest all DC4 owners to have a look at their watches to check if they have 2893 as advertised or the unexpected SW330...

Chees....


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## Jonastan

It also appears that there are a few instances where the GL224 movement has been a Sellita instead of the advertised ETA.

This concerns me since the Glycine Calibre GL224 has always been advertised as an ETA 2824-2. Using a different (albeit nearly identical) movement in place of the expected movement and listing it as the same calibre feels like false advertising and rubs me the wrong way. The movement might perform the same, or even better, but it isn't what was advertised. Substituting a copy from another brand without listing this anywhere, with the only way of knowing what is inside the watch, is to buy it and open it up yourself, is deceptive. This is not something I would expect of a respected Swiss watch brand.

Now I'm going to be torn about whether or not to open up my Glycine combat sub (I likely wont) to make sure It contains the movement I expected it to contain (ETA 2824-2).


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## jimmytamp

Jonastan said:


> It also appears that there are a few instances where the GL224 movement has been a Sellita instead of the advertised ETA.
> 
> This concerns me since the Glycine Calibre GL224 has always been advertised as an ETA 2824-2. Using a different (albeit nearly identical) movement in place of the expected movement and listing it as the same calibre feels like false advertising and rubs me the wrong way. The movement might perform the same, or even better, but it isn't what was advertised. Substituting a copy from another brand without listing this anywhere, with the only way of knowing what is inside the watch, is to buy it and open it up yourself, is deceptive. This is not something I would expect of a respected Swiss watch brand.
> 
> Now I'm going to be torn about whether or not to open up my Glycine combat sub (I likely wont) to make sure It contains the movement I expected it to contain (ETA 2824-2).


I totally agree with you Jonastan,

If it's advertised with ETA movement, it has to be ETA. Otherwise the dealer had to advertised it as it is.

This DC4 is not my 1st time purchase from the authorized dealer, infact this is my second DC4 (1st DC4 was the GMT version), but I sold it a friend.

Now I'm thinking that maybe the DC4 I purchased is a refurbished one, but again, this also is not mentioned anywhere by the dealer.

I opened a case with the dealer on ebay and let's see what he would say regarding this.

I'll keep an update on this.

Cheers....


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## Burgs

I don't know if anybody remembers, but years ago General Motors got into a heap of trouble for using Chevy motors in (I think) Pontiacs or one of their other upper tier auto brands.

My DC-4 GMT has 25 jewels, which I guess would make it an ETA movement. Whichever it is, it keeps time within one second a day, so I'm a happy camper. |>


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## jimmytamp

Burgs said:


> I don't know if anybody remembers, but years ago General Motors got into a heap of trouble for using Chevy motors in (I think) Pontiacs or one of their other upper tier auto brands.
> 
> My DC-4 GMT has 25 jewels, which I guess would make it an ETA movement. Whichever it is, it keeps time within one second a day, so I'm a happy camper. |>


If you read the Glycine advertisment, the DC-4 is advertised to have ETA 2893 which has only 21 jewels. If it has 25 jewels (like mine), it means it's NOT an ETA 2893 movement inside.

Get yourself a magnifier, check down the corner like the one in my pictures, you'll read (see) a printed: "SW330" as well as "25 jewels", than tell me if SW330 is an ETA.

Cheers...


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## ccwatchmaker

The reason Glycine has begun using Sellita movements is because SWATCH Group (SG), the owners of ETA, are slowly cutting off the supply of ETA movements to any manufacturer outside of the SG brands. If SG had their way, all the ETA movements to outside brands would have been gone already. The Swiss government stopped SG from implementing their plan and decreed that the cut off would have to be done more slowly and be extended over a longer time period, otherwise the SG plan would have put dozens of small Swiss and German brands out of business. Still, the complete cutoff will come over the next couple of years. Describing these dozens of brands as manufacturers is a bit of a stretch, they put ETA movements in Chinese cases. Little or no manufacturing is done.

In addition to cutting off supplies of movements, at the end of 2015, SG stopped selling repair parts to watch material suppliers, which has made it difficult to impossible to have an ETA movement watch serviced or repaired unless one sends the watch to a factory service center. The factory service centers no longer actually service or repair watches, they simply swap out the movements. Likely, once the supply of ETA movements is exhausted, if one sends in a Glycine with an ETA movement, they will get back a Glycine with a Sellita movement. Overall, the movements are interchangeable.

Which movement is better? In my opinion, it's a tossup. Neither are anywhere near the quality of what the Swiss were making fifty years ago. They are designed to be manufactured at a low cost rather than to be long-lived. This is evidenced to some degree by the policy of movement exchanges rather than repair.

James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


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## jimmytamp

ccwatchmaker said:


> The reason Glycine has begun using Sellita movements is because SWATCH Group (SG), the owners of ETA, are slowly cutting off the supply of ETA movements to any manufacturer outside of the SG brands. If SG had their way, all the ETA movements to outside brands would have been gone already. The Swiss government stopped SG from implementing their plan and decreed that the cut off would have to be done more slowly and be extended over a longer time period, otherwise the SG plan would have put dozens of small Swiss and German brands out of business. Still, the complete cutoff will come over the next couple of years. Describing these dozens of brands as manufacturers is a bit of a stretch, they put ETA movements in Chinese cases. Little or no manufacturing is done.
> 
> In addition to cutting off supplies of movements, at the end of 2015, SG stopped selling repair parts to watch material suppliers, which has made it difficult to impossible to have an ETA movement watch serviced or repaired unless one sends the watch to a factory service center. The factory service centers no longer actually service or repair watches, they simply swap out the movements. Likely, once the supply of ETA movements is exhausted, if one sends in a Glycine with an ETA movement, they will get back a Glycine with a Sellita movement. Overall, the movements are interchangeable.
> 
> Which movement is better? In my opinion, it's a tossup. Neither are anywhere near the quality of what the Swiss were making fifty years ago. They are designed to be manufactured at a low cost rather than to be long-lived. This is evidenced to some degree by the policy of movement exchanges rather than repair.
> 
> James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


Hi James,

Thanks for the heads up.

I understand the situation with the Swatch Group and based on your info, I think it's better I keep my DC4 with Sellita rather than ask the seller to exchange it with ETA inside.

Nevertheless, I still don't understand why Glycine or their authorised dealer kept it advertised as "only" ETA. 
They could have advertise it as "ETA/SW movement inside" to let all the customers to decide wether they still want to buy the products or not. This kind of practise eventually will take away their customers.

Cheers


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## Mouse_at_Large

I'm a bit puzzled. I've just been on the Glycine site and can't find where Glycine say what the base _ebauche _is. The DC-4 purist has "GL293 Swiss automatic movement" listed as its movement. There would appear to be no mention of ETA 2893 or SW330. If a third party states that you have either an ETA 2893 or a SW330 movement in your Glycine they are wrong - both are GL293s. However, if a third party states that your movement is _based _on an ETA 2893, then they are correct. Both the ETA based GL293 and SW330 GL293 are based on the ETA 2893.


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## mr_nobody

ccwatchmaker said:


> The reason Glycine has begun using Sellita movements is because SWATCH Group (SG), the owners of ETA, are slowly cutting off the supply of ETA movements to any manufacturer outside of the SG brands. If SG had their way, all the ETA movements to outside brands would have been gone already. The Swiss government stopped SG from implementing their plan and decreed that the cut off would have to be done more slowly and be extended over a longer time period, otherwise the SG plan would have put dozens of small Swiss and German brands out of business. Still, the complete cutoff will come over the next couple of years. Describing these dozens of brands as manufacturers is a bit of a stretch, they put ETA movements in Chinese cases. Little or no manufacturing is done.
> 
> In addition to cutting off supplies of movements, at the end of 2015, SG stopped selling repair parts to watch material suppliers, which has made it difficult to impossible to have an ETA movement watch serviced or repaired unless one sends the watch to a factory service center. The factory service centers no longer actually service or repair watches, they simply swap out the movements. Likely, once the supply of ETA movements is exhausted, if one sends in a Glycine with an ETA movement, they will get back a Glycine with a Sellita movement. Overall, the movements are interchangeable.
> 
> Which movement is better? In my opinion, it's a tossup. Neither are anywhere near the quality of what the Swiss were making fifty years ago. They are designed to be manufactured at a low cost rather than to be long-lived. This is evidenced to some degree by the policy of movement exchanges rather than repair.
> 
> James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


I know this was originally their stated plan, but based on recent developments, it seems they have reversed course:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/seems-corporate-swatch-has-changed-its-tune-4586331.html


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## FL410

Just for the record, my watch with the Sellita did not come from watchgooroo, so it doesn't have anything to do with the dealer. Im afraid Glycine is probably going with all Sellita eventually, maybe even currently. I have an Airman GMT coming, so we'll see what it has.


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## jimmytamp

FL410 said:


> Just for the record, my watch with the Sellita did not come from watchgooroo, so it doesn't have anything to do with the dealer. Im afraid Glycine is probably going with all Sellita eventually, maybe even currently. I have an Airman GMT coming, so we'll see what it has.


So now I can assume that the problem came from the Glycine itself (NOT the dealer), which they didn't make it clear wether some of their product lines are powered by Sellita and some by ETA.

They need to be more transparent so the customer can decide based on their preferences.


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## Mouse_at_Large

jimmytamp said:


> So now I can assume that the problem came from the Glycine itself (NOT the dealer), which they didn't make it clear wether some of their product lines are powered by Sellita and some by ETA.
> 
> They need to be more transparent so the customer can decide based on their preferences.


I'm not trying to wind you up, but can you post a link to a Glycine official site that says they use the ETA movement exclusively (or at all). All I can find is that the say they use their "GL293 Swiss automatic movement". No guarantees or indication what the base ebauche is.


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## ccwatchmaker

mr_nobody said:


> I know this was originally their stated plan, but based on recent developments, it seems they have reversed course:
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/seems-corporate-swatch-has-changed-its-tune-4586331.html


mr_nobody,

This is very interesting information. Thank you for posting the link; I was totally unaware of what appears to be a reversal of policy on the part of the SWATCH Group. Do you have any information as to how this will affect the SG policy of refusing to sell repair parts?

I've been too busy repairing/restoring vintage Airman watches and have not been reading enough news.

This puts the Glycine-Sellita issue in an entirely different light. Perhaps this use of Sellita movements is a financial decision.

James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


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## ccwatchmaker

mr_nobody said:


> I know this was originally their stated plan, but based on recent developments, it seems they have reversed course:


mr_nobody,

This is very interesting information. Thank you for posting the link; I was totally unaware of what appears to be a reversal of policy on the part of the SWATCH Group. Do you have any information as to how this will affect the SG policy of refusing to sell repair parts?

This puts the Glycine-Sellita issue in an entirely different light. Perhaps this use of Sellita movements is a financial decision.

James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


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## mr_nobody

ccwatchmaker said:


> mr_nobody,
> 
> This is very interesting information. Thank you for posting the link; I was totally unaware of what appears to be a reversal of policy on the part of the SWATCH Group. Do you have any information as to how this will affect the SG policy of refusing to sell repair parts?
> 
> I've been too busy repairing/restoring vintage Airman watches and have not been reading enough news.
> 
> This puts the Glycine-Sellita issue in an entirely different light. Perhaps this use of Sellita movements is a financial decision.
> 
> James Sadilek -- ccwatchmaker


All I know is what I've seen in that thread, I see you've posted there so hopefully someone else will have some insight for you.


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## leograye

Some years ago I was importing Grovana watches into Australia.
The advertising stated ETA 2824/2893 etc, but when I opened some and saw Selitta movements inside I queried the factory.
They had to send out a box of ETA movements to change over and I sent the Selitta's back.
It is clearly false advertising unless the maker/agent states a certain in-house calibre number. Then they are free to use any brand movement they choose.


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## FL410

Well, Glycine advertises the movement as a GL 224, so I think they are safe. Nothing is advertised currently to my knowledge stating that they are solely ETA movements.


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## jimmytamp

It's quite disappointing to know that Glycine started to mix the movement inside their classic Airman models.


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## Patagonico

My DC4 GMT from Watchwooroo have a ETA 2893 inside.


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## Mouse_at_Large

Patagonico said:


> My DC4 GMT from Watchwooroo have a ETA 2893 inside.


Maybe my brain is wired differently, but what you have (unless you have a frankenwatch) is a DC4 GMT ref GL0071 with a GL293 movement. The base ebauche may be an ETA2893, but it's called a GL293. Just like I own an Omega​TR 378.0885 with a calibre 1154. The base ebauche is a Valjoux 7750. See bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Omega 1154 (Valjoux 7750) but if I called it a Valjoux 7750 I'd be wrong.

Now you can argue that manufacturers should be more revealing about just how much work they do to a base ebauche before they are justified in putting their own name on it, and that if they change the base ebauche supplier without changing their internal calibre name they are being less than open, but I still haven't seen anything indicating that Glycine in the recent past or at present say that their GL calibres will be based on ETA movements.


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## Patagonico

Just arrived SST12:


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## jimmytamp

Patagonico said:


> My DC4 GMT from Watchwooroo have a ETA 2893 inside.


Can you give us some pictures of the back of your DC4 GMT so we can see if you have 2893 stamped (instead of SW330) on the base of the movement?

Cheers...


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## jimmytamp

Patagonico said:


> Just arrived SST12:


My SST 12 GMT warranty card doesn't have "ETA 2893" stamp on it, so I assume my SST12 will have another Sellita inside...


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## Patagonico

jimmytamp said:


> Can you give us some pictures of the back of your DC4 GMT so we can see if you have 2893 stamped (instead of SW330) on the base of the movement?
> 
> Cheers...


Clearly stamped in the movement of my DC4 GMT:

21 jewels / 2893-2 / + ETA logo / Swiss


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## jimmytamp

Patagonico said:


> Clearly stamped in the movement of my DC4 GMT:
> 
> 21 jewels / 2893-2 / + ETA logo / Swiss


Thanks...

You're lucky to have your DC4 powered by the ETA2893...

Cheers


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## eljay

Jonastan said:


> This concerns me since the Glycine Calibre GL224 has always been advertised as an ETA 2824-2.


_Who_ has advertised "GL224" (or in the case of the 24hr Airman range, "GL293") as anything other than "GL224" (or "GL293")?


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## Jonastan

eljay said:


> _Who_ has advertised "GL224" (or in the case of the 24hr Airman range, "GL293") as anything other than "GL224" (or "GL293")?


Glycine, by selling thousands of watches, for years, with ETA 2824-2 movements advertised as "GL 224". The old Glycine spec sheets on "GL 224" watches listed the base movement (ETA 2824-2), and it seems that they no longer do. Transparency would dictate that Glycine should list the base movement if there is a lack of consistency. I feel that it is deceptive to take advantage of consumer good will and swap out the base movement without advertising the change.

If I buy a Breitling Caliber 13 watch, I can rest assured that the base movement will always be a Valjoux 7750. I think people would be understandably angry if their Caliber 13 Navitimers showed up and had Sellita movements in them.


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## eljay

Jonastan said:


> Transparency would dictate that Glycine should list the base movement if there is a lack of consistency.


I agree with this.



> I feel that it is deceptive to take advantage of consumer good will and swap out the base movement without advertising the change.


And this.

However, when you say they're "advertised" as being a particular thing, I focus on the actual advertising material.

The movement in the 24 hour Airman line has changed many times over the years. It may have achieved some stability since the automatic models were relaunched, but ETA is only one of many in the history of the name.

TAG Heuer got into some "trouble" by using 7750s and SW500s interchangeably, but as with "Calibre 16", Glycine's "GL###" designation is really just marketing (even if each one does strongly ape the name of a particular ETA movement.)

I have a DC-4 purist on the way. I'm interested to see what it contains now...

Edit: An SW330.


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## jimmytamp

Just found this from Glycine web itself, it says 21 Jewels for DC-4 Purist, means it has to be ETA 2893 which has 21 jewels. In fact,it has 25 jewels which is SW330.

Since the Technical info from Glycine doesn't say either 21 or 25 jewels, it safe to say Glycine them self is misleading the customers.

http://glycine-watch.ch/uploads/tx_pmxwatchcollection/Airman_"DC_4"_GL0072-GL0072_en_373.pdf









Cheers...


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## dan360

My three most recent Glycine acquisitions--all 2017 builds--are 2/3 Sellita and 1/3 ETA. Honestly, the ETA is less accurate and not as nice looking upon close inspection.

My DC-4 Purist is a Sellita SW330-1. Marked on the paperwork as a GL293.
My SST 12 black/black is a Sellita SW330-1. Marked on the papers as a GL293.
My SST 12 pumpkin is a ETA 2893-2. Marked on the papers as a GL293 but on the front cover of the book it says ETA 2893-2. It's the oldest of the three FWIW...

As far as the movements go, Glycine has long purchased ebauche "kits" and final finished them. As I understand it, ebauche is French for "blank". Unassembled. Kit form. They aren't complete working movements when received by watchmakers so even the 'prized' ETA 2893-2 showed up in pieces--incomplete--and Glycine finished them with their own parts and assembled in-house as evident by the markings on the rotor,etc.

My experiences with all the ETAs in my previous Glycine watches has been positive, however these two newest Sellita additions to the collection are running with better timekeeping accuracy than _any_ of my ETAs so whatever. I buy these to wear and use and so far, if forced to choose, I'll choose the Sellita movement.

With what Swatch is doing with their slow but delibrate ceasing of selling their movements out-of-house, it's going to happen sooner or later to everyone relying on them..... I'm happy to see Glycine has found a superior replacement so soon.

As far as the marketing goes; work around heavy industry long enough it'll make sense. Every org of every dept has bean counters running around dictating everything. Jurgen in the print shop probably didn't get the word until it was too late and he already die stamped a run of 2,000 books. And Yolonda in the web design dept of analytics & analysis efficiency forgot to include the part about recoding the "jewels" line in the latest PowerPoint about metrics and cost control. So whatever. The Sellita has 25 so woohoo bonus you have 4 extra microscopic industrial rubies worth 1 Euro.


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## Mark P

Could the reason for a decrease in price for some of the Glycine range be due to the inclusion of the cheaper Sellita movement and not so much as a result of being acquired by Invicta? If so, I applaud them as many brands would think nothing of substitution and not adjusting price accordingly.


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## dan360

Mark P said:


> Could the reason for a decrease in price for some of the Glycine range be due to the inclusion of the cheaper Sellita movement and not so much as a result of being acquired by Invicta? If so, I applaud them as many brands would think nothing of substitution and not adjusting price accordingly.


A good move by Glycine all the way around I feel. As far as cheaper/less expensive/less quality/et al, that's all due to marketing aka social engineering. Powerful things, yes, but those who know how to look behind the curtain will be enlightened.

Sellita has been final assembling ETA movements for years. Many of the ETA ebauche 'kits' are incomplete--various other pieces in the final assembly aren't ETA, or if they are, are mass produced one-size-fits-all parts that will fit a large range of the lineup.

When Swatch decided to play hardball with the watchmakers who 'needed' them.....Sellita was quick to respond:

-We know how your stuff works, because we final it.
-We know how your stuff looks, because we final it.
-We know how to make it better, because we've been doing so for years, because we final it.

So, Sellita started building their own movements. ETA's initial response to this was to limit shipments of small parts that Sellita was using to complete their own movements---the cross pollenation and inbreeding in Swiss watchmaking is one of the biggest not-so-secret "secrets" out there....nearly as bad as automotive manufacturing.

ETA's patents are long expired, so their hardball approach will only work for a time.


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## BrainKingSoldier

dan360 said:


> My three most recent Glycine acquisitions--all 2017 builds--are 2/3 Sellita and 1/3 ETA. Honestly, the ETA is less accurate and not as nice looking upon close inspection.
> 
> My DC-4 Purist is a Sellita SW330-1. Marked on the paperwork as a GL293.
> My SST 12 black/black is a Sellita SW330-1. Marked on the papers as a GL293.
> My SST 12 pumpkin is a ETA 2893-2. Marked on the papers as a GL293 but on the front cover of the book it says ETA 2893-2. It's the oldest of the three FWIW...
> 
> As far as the movements go, Glycine has long purchased ebauche "kits" and final finished them. As I understand it, ebauche is French for "blank". Unassembled. Kit form. They aren't complete working movements when received by watchmakers so even the 'prized' ETA 2893-2 showed up in pieces--incomplete--and Glycine finished them with their own parts and assembled in-house as evident by the markings on the rotor,etc.
> 
> My experiences with all the ETAs in my previous Glycine watches has been positive, however these two newest Sellita additions to the collection are running with better timekeeping accuracy than _any_ of my ETAs so whatever. I buy these to wear and use and so far, if forced to choose, I'll choose the Sellita movement.
> 
> With what Swatch is doing with their slow but delibrate ceasing of selling their movements out-of-house, it's going to happen sooner or later to everyone relying on them..... I'm happy to see Glycine has found a superior replacement so soon.
> 
> As far as the marketing goes; work around heavy industry long enough it'll make sense. Every org of every dept has bean counters running around dictating everything. Jurgen in the print shop probably didn't get the word until it was too late and he already die stamped a run of 2,000 books. And Yolonda in the web design dept of analytics & analysis efficiency forgot to include the part about recoding the "jewels" line in the latest PowerPoint about metrics and cost control. So whatever. The Sellita has 25 so woohoo bonus you have 4 extra microscopic industrial rubies worth 1 Euro.


I have just received my new 2017 Airman 42 (GL0064).

the packaged marketing material says Cal No. GL 293 (No ETA on it like the other types in the thread)
dealer says the same
official website says the same (21 jewels hidden in technical details)
the watch definitely has SW330-1 built in it

Although I have carefully gone through this post, understand the ETA situation and do respect your wisdom I am a bit disappointed. I do like the watch's look and feel, it shows great quality, the movement is beautiful but most of the watch lovers around me has strong perception that favors ETA over Sellita movements which (I believe) decreases resale value. Now I didn't buy this watch as an investment (it actually was a birthday present for myself ) but it still makes me think I am a tricked customer who have been fooled with the obtained value.

On the positive note: I am glad it turned out that different movement =/= fake watch. When I had its bracelet adjusted, the guy in the service center notified me that it is not ETA and since he didn't know the brand he told me it might be Chinese (which I know is a false assumption but still...you don't like to hear that from a professional )

Cheers to fellow Glycine owners


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## dan360

BrainKingSoldier said:


> I have just received my new 2017 Airman 42 (GL0064).
> 
> the packaged marketing material says Cal No. GL 293 (No ETA on it like the other types in the thread)
> dealer says the same
> official website says the same (21 jewels hidden in technical details)
> the watch definitely has SW330-1 built in it
> 
> Although I have carefully gone through this post, understand the ETA situation and do respect your wisdom I am a bit disappointed. I do like the watch's look and feel, it shows great quality, the movement is beautiful but most of the watch lovers around me has strong perception that favors ETA over Sellita movements which (I believe) decreases resale value. Now I didn't buy this watch as an investment (it actually was a birthday present for myself ) but it still makes me think I am a tricked customer who have been fooled with the obtained value.
> 
> On the positive note: I am glad it turned out that different movement =/= fake watch. When I had its bracelet adjusted, the guy in the service center notified me that it is not ETA and since he didn't know the brand he told me it might be Chinese (which I know is a false assumption but still...you don't like to hear that from a professional )
> 
> Cheers to fellow Glycine owners


Don't be a victim of a marketeer. They pull the strings on us humans with their ads, their shills, and their paid endorsers. Sellita very well could've been building every ETA movement in every Glycine you've seen previously. Marketeering kept you from knowing that.

It's a complex world of smoke & mirrors. Enjoy your watch!!!!


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## salems

My Dc4 also has a Sellita sw330, i was happy about accuracy comments from Wus members but i´m quite dissapointed, two days running without wearing (dial up) and +9 sec / day. I preffer my sst 12 with Eta (about +3 sec or less / day).


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