# Looking for an affordable chrono / slide-rule (E6B)



## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

I have been enjoying my Citizen Nighthawk, but wishing sometimes that it had a chrono instead of the GMT time. So found the Rotary Chronospeed, which looked like it had everything I wanted. It's a Navitimer homage. Unfortunately, when I unboxed the watch two days ago, I discovered that the marks on the slide-rule didn't line up well, and not only that, but when I turn the crown to rotate that internal bezel, it moves back and forth -- on and off radius -- and even jiggles. Nuts! So I'm sending it back.

Got any suggestions? I have some constraints that disqualify most of the field, I'm afraid. One is that I don't want to spend more than I spent on the Nighthawk, which was on sale for $237. Another is that my close vision isn't the greatest with my contact lenses, so legibility is a big issue. I find that most of the Seikos have numerals that are just too tiny for me. I probably do want the chrono function, even more than the slide-rule. Oh, and my wrists are thin: maybe 6.5 inches after a workout and a lot of hydration. So the Nighthawk's size is probably as big as I want to go. (It's 43mm, w/o crown, I believe). I don't really warm to the other Citizens because they just seem to have too much going on, visually, or they include an LCD segment, or they have a function wheel where changing modes forces you to wait for the hands to wind around to the right time (instead of just moving the hands to the right locations -- why didn't they think of that?)

My grail would be a Hamilton Khaki Aviation ETO Chronograph. And, of course, there's always the Breitling. Those will wait for my Nobel Prize or lottery winnings, whichever comes first! 

So far, my favorite candidates are these.

1. Orient "Dyno" - CTD09001B - similar (blue face version) reviewed.

2. Aeromatic A1294 - XXL-Pilot DEFENDER "World-Tour" Chronograph black A1294 | rugift.com
Black face, very readable slide-rule numerals, fat hands which occasionally get in the way of reading elapsed minutes on the chrono.

Aeromatic also has the A1295, which has a cream-colored inner dial which is a lume dial.

3. Aeromatic A1249 - Military NAVI Flight Computer Chronograph Watch A1249B | rugift.com
This has thinner hands, white chrono windows on the black dial, slightly smaller font on the inner slide-rule.

I looked at some offerings by Parnis, but I lost interest after reading accounts of quality issues.

I found some Poljot watches, but some of those aren't cheap, and some don't actually have a working slide-rule. I want to actually be able to use the slide-rule.

I've read that the Aeromatic is "Germasian", but I've also read that the movements are quality Japanese movements. I don't mind it being an homage; I just want the thing to work well, mechanically and visually.

Thanks for your thoughts!

--David


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## arktika1148 (Nov 21, 2010)

Got my Aeromatic (not chrono.) from Aero 1912 : Aeromatic 1912 watches, werners flying watches, german style watches, aristo watches, junkers watches, aviation watches, classic watches, army watches, junkers, aristo, world war 2 watches, ww2 watches, german watches, watches on the web, which have a good selection.
Not sure whether they would deduct VAT if you are outside EU but worth asking.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

Cool! Thanks for the reference arktika. They don't have the two models I'm most interested in, but they do have these two:

A1295









and

A1333


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

arktika, forgot to ask: how do you like your Aeromatic? How's the quality? It's one thing to look at pretty Web pics, and another to hold the watch in your hand...


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## arktika1148 (Nov 21, 2010)

TickTockMan said:


> arktika, forgot to ask: how do you like your Aeromatic? How's the quality? It's one thing to look at pretty Web pics, and another to hold the watch in your hand...
















Very accurate and good finish, even the lume is good. One of the best straps on any new watch as well. Have to say though that the crown looks out of place, but generally would say the watch is well made/designed.

Must be about 3 years or so and still kicks to life just by lifting out of the box, and after re-setting (easy on this with the buttons/pushers) doesn't miss a beat

Forgot to say before about an early Denissov Aeronaut slide rule with a Citizen auto inside.







Zenitar on ebay has them sometimes.

http://www.m-watches.com/catalog/po...onograph-3168100841029-p-254.html?cPath=30_42 
M.C. is pretty cool, and untill the recent price hikes was a 'steal', still is really.

All the best, Dave


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## Dark30 (Jan 20, 2012)

Since you actually want to use the E6B, I would suggest you rule out the Orient Dyno and any other watch that uses a knob to turn the bezel, especially one where the mentioned knob is located between 7 and 11 oclock. Those are a real pain to use when you are trying to do something else as you have to either remove the watch and hold it in your right hand or point your left hand at an awkward angle, so you essentially have to use both hands instead of just reaching over with your right hand to turn the bezel. 

Until I got one I thought it would be nice to have the slide rule numbers protected like that, but in use they are hard to operate while multi tasking.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

Dark30 said:


> Since you actually want to use the E6B, I would suggest you rule out the Orient Dyno and any other watch that uses a knob to turn the bezel, especially one where the mentioned knob is located between 7 and 11 oclock. Those are a real pain to use when you are trying to do something else as you have to either remove the watch and hold it in your right hand or point your left hand at an awkward angle, so you essentially have to use both hands instead of just reaching over with your right hand to turn the bezel.
> 
> Until I got one I thought it would be nice to have the slide rule numbers protected like that, but in use they are hard to operate while multi tasking.


Excellent point! I have noticed that with my Nighthawk. I take it off when I do computations.

I just searched for a Breitling to look at online. Sure enough, there's no extra crown sticking out. It dawned on me: oh, that's why the bezel is knurled. The knurled bezels on some of the homages are there just for the look.

Too bad that my leading candidates all are the "extra crown" kind. Hmmm. Pics, below.


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## Dark30 (Jan 20, 2012)

PITA I know.

Here is an exercise you should be able to do with an E6B watch- while you are on the highway at a steady speed time how many seconds between the mile marker posts.








You can either use the stopwatch function or just glance at the second hand.

After you pass the next mile marker post, note the seconds. Now put that number under the "60" index located on the outer ring, and your MPH will be over the "60" that will be located on the inner ring.

If you can't do this while driving, the watch is not a truly practical "pilot watch" IMHO.

Here is an image I grabbed off the net:









Now let us suppose the Model A was not hitting on all 4 cylinders that day. We time a measured mile and discover it takes us 90 seconds. Now we turn the ring so that the number "90" is located under the number "60", and then we look and see the number "40" is aligned over the "60" index, so our speed is 40 MPH. Now you can cross check this with what the speedometer is telling you.

Anyway, if you are looking at watches at a counter, see if you can do this activity conveniently if your goal is to have a functional watch (at least IMHO).

D30


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## pantagruel (May 30, 2010)

I have the Orient Dyno (in fact I wrote the review you cited... Thanks!) It is a good watch and I would recommend it. Also check out the Wenger Commando SR.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

pantagruel said:


> I have the Orient Dyno (in fact I wrote the review you cited... Thanks!) It is a good watch and I would recommend it. Also check out the Wenger Commando SR.


I like the Wenger quite a bit. I was just looking at it on Youtube. It's a little more expensive, though: I found it for $450 on Amazon. I was also looking at it on Youtube. I'm not sure I like having to unscrew the crown for the slide-rule.

When I look at Orient's video for the Dyno, I'm intrigued. It's really a sharp looking watch in real life. I like the red tip on the end of the chrono seconds hand. And I like the feature that the chrono seconds hand is a sweep seconds hand, instead of the common tick-tick-tick that most chronos have. Anyone know whether any of these other watches share that feature?

How does the line-up of the Orient's slide-rule compare to your other watches? Your profile includes the Citizen Skyhawk A-T. Really neat watch, although it feels too busy for my taste.

Oh, by the way, I found a Seiko that actually seems readable to me: SNDA31P1. It does seem a little less organized than the Orient, though.

Thanks,

David


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

Dark30 said:


> After you pass the next mile marker post, note the seconds. Now put that number under the "60" index located on the outer ring, and your MPH will be over the "60" that will be located on the inner ring.
> 
> If you can't do this while driving, the watch is not a truly practical "pilot watch" IMHO.


Hey! Cool! I was wondering how to do that without the tachymeter scale.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

I just found a new winner, although it's currently over my budget: Sea-Gull 413.361 Slide Rule Pilot Titanium Chronograph

It's 42mm, sapphire crystal front and back, 100m water resistance, mechanical movement. Wow. Better pictures in this ad. There's also a white-dial version.


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## pantagruel (May 30, 2010)

TickTockMan said:


> How does the line-up of the Orient's slide-rule compare to your other watches? Your profile includes the Citizen Skyhawk A-T. Really neat watch, although it feels too busy for my taste.


The inner and outer rings of the Dyno's slide rule line up reasonably well. No better or worse than my Skyhawk. However, I do agree with Dark30 that it is easier to use the Skyhawk's slide rule when compared to the Dyno's. Manipulating the outer ring by hand on the Skyhawk is much easier than manipulating it with the 10-o'clock knob on the Dyno.


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## CFI care (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi TickTockMan,I have found with the various watches that I have owned is that the E6B with the dial(s) inside the glass is all but impossible to read.
I chose (after many months of research) the Seiko SBDM007, most probably a tad over budget but for me the price was soon forgotten when using the watch on a daily basis. choose a dial where the inner and the outer ring are outside the glass, The citizen make a nice enough watch with an easy enough to read E6B but it does not have the major marking at the 60 in highlight. (timing events is difficult)


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## PullTheTrigger (Jun 10, 2012)

Let me suggest the seiko ssc007. A fantastic watch for around 280.00


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## pantagruel (May 30, 2010)

PullTheTrigger said:


> Let me suggest the seiko ssc007. A fantastic watch for around 280.00


Good suggestion... It's a Seiko solar.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

PullTheTrigger said:


> Let me suggest the seiko ssc007. A fantastic watch for around 280.00


Neat suggestion. Yeah, that one caught my eye. The problem I have with it is that the font on the inner ring of the slide rule is so tiny that I doubt I could read it. Here's a picture:









I don't know why, but most of the current Seiko slide rules have large numbers on the outer ring, and tiny numbers on the inner ring, but medium-sized time numbers on the inner ring. That may be okay if your close vision is excellent, or if you're always doing time / distance calculations. But if you just want to divide two numbers, those inner numbers are going to be really hard to make out. It's too bad; it seems to me a design choice that ruins (for me) an otherwise outstanding watch. One thing I like about the design is that you can turn the bezel without having to twiddle another crown.

On the other hand, the Seiko SBDM007 (thanks, CFI care) meets all my requirements. Well, all but the budget. I was hoping for something under $200, not something around $1400. But look how much more readable this slide rule is:









and that's just a design choice (which could be implemented just as easily on the cheaper watches).


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## Him (Jun 26, 2012)

There are some cool watches pictured here.

I've got to say I have a JR3000-51f (the stainless external bezel Skyhawk in CFI Care's post a few back) and really haven't been happy with it. The engraving of the e6b wore nearly smooth over just a few months of wear, and the bezel was sometimes quite stiff. It's a really neat watch in some ways but it just never worked for me.

This is outside your price range but I'm going to mention it because I just bought it at lunch today.  (Mine has a metal band, I just found this photo and re-used it.)










Citizen BY0000-56l, about $350 at Costco. One thing I've noticed though is that Costco usually gets watches just before the maker has a new version coming out, so maybe these will be getting cheaper???

Haven't flown or done any flight planning since getting it but I kinda agree that the crown is fiddly...but it beats having all the markings wipe off.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

That Citizen BY0000-56l is really sharp! And it does everything. Perpetual calendar, atomic, very readable slide-rule, and the chrono is a sweep design (1/5 second "ticks" instead of one per second, right?).


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

*Torgoen?*

I found Torgoen. They have several E6B designs, but my favorite is the T1. It's 42mm wide and 14.6mm thick. Has a crown to operate the sliding bezel, but that crown sits alone on the right hand side of the watch, making it much easier to work with. This series looks like it's designed for use rather than decoration. The T2 series is a little fatter: 15.2mm thick, but seems to have a graspable bezel instead of controlling it by a crown. I'm just not sure I want that big a watch on my 6 1/4 inch wrist. (Go ahead, laugh. My brother does!)

These seem hard to find now. The black face version -- PVD black case -- looks very tactical, very handsome.

Torgoen T01 Series

I might prefer the white dial, as seen in this review.

But I have to say that the Orient CTD09001B still looks good to me. One of the things I like is that its large chrono second hand doesn't tick once per second, but 5 times a second. In contrast, the Hamilton Khaki Chrono ETO, which seemed like everything I always wanted, goes tick-tick-tick, with no sub-second timing resolution at all. Too bad.


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## pantagruel (May 30, 2010)

One of the benefits of the Orient is it has an AR coated sapphire crystal.


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## Him (Jun 26, 2012)

TickTockMan said:


> That Citizen BY0000-56l is really sharp! And it does everything. Perpetual calendar, atomic, very readable slide-rule, and the chrono is a sweep design (1/5 second "ticks" instead of one per second, right?).


I'm really digging it so far. I have exactly one gripe...I wish the 24hr subdial could be set to UTC.... but I can remember "-6" I guess. 

I'm not sure how many "ticks" precisely but it's definitely smoother than a full second. 1/5th looks about right but if you told me it was 1/2 I might believe you. It works well and of course that hand is also used to indicate radio and alarm status in different modes.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

Anyone have experience with the Aeromatic 1912 slide rule watches? I'm wondering about the quality of the inner rotating ring.









I'm wondering if the bottom edge of that white ring is uneven.

So far, I have direct experience with a Citizen Nighthawk and a Rotary Chronospeed. The Citizen's rotating ring operates smoothly and evenly. The marks also line up very well, although I returned one earlier because the marks didn't line up well on the two sliding scales. On the Rotary that I had (for a day), the marks didn't line up especially well. And when I turned the crown, the inner ring didn't just rotate but it moved back and forth and even vibrated a little. Because of that experience, I'm now suspicious of inexpensive slide-rule watches.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

*Torgoen T1 vs Orient CTD09001B vs Hamilton Khaki Chrono E.T.O.*

So far, my three favorites are the Hamilton Khaki Chrono E.T.O., the Orient CTD09001B (Dyno), and the Torgoen T1.










The Hamilton would be a massive splurge for me. I think it looks handsome, and it impresses me as being carefully designed for functionality and legibility. The outer bezel turns without the aid of a crown. The left side of the watch has the setting crown and the chrono pushers. The right side has an upper crown that sets the number showing in the 12:00 window, to remember a result (I think). The chrono seconds only go tick-tick-tick, once per second. But there are two long chrono seconds hands, and the lower button on the right makes one of them stop to record the current position of the other one, which keeps moving. The case is 42mm in diameter, 13mm thick, 100 meters water resistance, and has sapphire crystal.

Here's a picture of the Orient "Dyno" CTD09001B, from Anzac's Orient WatchSpot:







The CTD09001B has a sapphire crystal with (I think) AR coating. The case is 44 mm by 11 mm, or 42.6 mm by 10 mm, depending on who you ask -- wide and flat. Water resistance is 100 meters. It seems very easy to read. I like the continuous analog-like sweep of the chrono hand, which is due to the Seiko 7T62 movement. The alarm can also be used as a second time-zone. The bracelet has solid links.

The Torgoen T1 is a real pilot's watch. Most of them that are still for sale are black case / black dial, but I like the look of the white dial:







To rotate the Torgoen's internal ring, you turn the crown on the right, which is a lot more convenient than the more common placement on the left. It's a big watch: 42mm case and 14.6mm thick. Water resistance of 100 meters. Very readable slide rule.

They have different personalities. What do you think?


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## Andrew McGregor (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Torgoen T1 vs Orient CTD09001B vs Hamilton Khaki Chrono E.T.O.*

Take a look at the slide rule on the Torgoen... it's lined up at the 60, yes? Now look at the bottom of the dial... it's off by half a gradation! Fail, epic fail... that offset has totally messed up all your calculations. The same can happen because there's a gap between the slide rule gradations on other watches... less serious, but still a failing. You want no parallax (Seiko SSC fails this way, because one scale is behind the crystal, one in front) accurate scales (Torgoen fails there) and no gap between the gradations (Orient and Aeromatic are failing on that).

So, Citizen and Breitling get all this right, and Seiko do on some models but by no means all. Hamilton I think do OK on the model above.

Of course, none of this is particularly serious if you don't intend to use the E6B. But it might really mess you up if you do use it and aren't aware of what it takes to make one right.


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## PullTheTrigger (Jun 10, 2012)

Andrew McGregor said:


> Take a look at the slide rule on the Torgoen... it's lined up at the 60, yes? Now look at the bottom of the dial... it's off by half a gradation! Fail, epic fail... that offset has totally messed up all your calculations. The same can happen because there's a gap between the slide rule gradations on other watches... less serious, but still a failing. You want no parallax (Seiko SSC fails this way, because one scale is behind the crystal, one in front) accurate scales (Torgoen fails there) and no gap between the gradations (Orient and Aeromatic are failing on that).
> 
> So, Citizen and Breitling get all this right, and Seiko do on some models but by no means all. Hamilton I think do OK on the model above.
> 
> Of course, none of this is particularly serious if you don't intend to use the E6B. But it might really mess you up if you do use it and aren't aware of what it takes to make one right.


It sounds like to me you have a critical need to use slide rules on watches. I agree with you 100% this is off, but for the slop factor, that is manageable.and if you know already, that it is off, you an compilation for it. On my ssc I have no issues at all.


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## pantagruel (May 30, 2010)

The Casio Edifice line also has some models with slide rule bezel chronographs that can be had for around the $100 mark.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

Hey Pantagruel, how's the precision of the dial on the Casio Edifice models?

I think you said that that the slide rule on your Orient was acceptable -- not perfect, but comparable to your Citizen? I was looking at pictures of the Orient this weekend, and comparing them with pictures of that Hamilton. The orient doesn't have as fine resolution in the scale at certain points, and the major divisions are signified by fatter marks (rather than longer), which makes them trickier to line up accuarately.

I looked at some Citizens today. One of them had a white slide rule ring that, when rotated, seemed to me to have some of the back-and-forth slop that made me return the Rotary. Maybe I just got lucky with my Nighthawk.

The more I look, the more I question spending the money! Maybe I'm too picky. I really like the slide-rule but I'm starting to realize that even a "decent" one like mine is going to be slightly imprecise. That bugs me -- how hard can it be to print that part?

I looked up info on the Hamilton this weekend. I can get it grey market and save $70. I'm tempted. But I realized that it needs to have the battery replaced every few years, and Hamilton wants you to send it to one of their service centers, which I would probably do. That costs (today) $55 + shipping. Plus the inconvenience. Kind of pricey for a watch that isn't always on my wrist every day.

So I started thinking about the Citizen eco-drives. Unfortunately, I find myself wishing they were (1) thinner (2) cleaner looking, with less bling and (3) more convenient to use. When I looked at watches this afternoon, I asked the guy in the shop but he didn't know which buttons to push to exercise various features. He told me to go online and read the manual. Going online, I found that some of these watches require one or more intermediate steps to use the chrono or alarm functions. I'm fairly allergic to what I consider poor UI design, and these kinds of things bug me. That led me earlier to shift to classic divers, because they were so clean and simple, and you can tell elapsed time against the unidirectional bezel. But now I find myself wishing I had an actual chrono seconds hand. So, I'm ranting and rambling, which I tend to do which I'm looking at pictures of watches and not sleeping. But I'm starting to wonder if I really need an E6B. I'll have to sleep on it. Maybe the Orient will be the best compromise. Or maybe I'll end up going in another direction:









That's from perpetual-watch.com


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

Or even (nice pic from BlueDial)...








Features: simple-to-use chrono with mechanical feel (in fact, mechanically actuated), alarm (easy enough to use that I'd use it, although it's not terribly precise or loud), never needing to change batteries, and 200m water resistance. No computations, though... Hmmm.


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## mephisto (Jun 8, 2007)

TickTockMan said:


> But I'm starting to wonder if I really need an E6B. I'll have to sleep on it...


not really.... and if you need to do calculations it's probably a better idea to have one of these in your shirt pocket rather than trusting your life to calculations based off of a watch bezel with dubious markings


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## Him (Jun 26, 2012)

Yeah, a CR-3 will beat a watch silly and take its lunch money. 

Still, having had both I kinda like the slide rule watches. It isn't especially practical but it can be handy, especially for when you aren't really flight planning so much as applying aviation knowledge to day to day life. E.g. I once used mine to whip off a quick speedometer correction chart for a motorcycle I had with a horribly misleading speedo.


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## pantagruel (May 30, 2010)

I find my slide rule bezels useful for doing things like tip calculations, currency conversions, and using it for nutritional information ratios.


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## DEPA (Feb 3, 2012)

*Re: Torgoen?*

what about this one?


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

*Re: Torgoen?*

Cool. DEPA, Where did you find that one? And how big is it?


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## Him (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: Torgoen?*

That Stovard Jurgenson is a cool watch. The only pictures I can find online show compass markings on the bezel and I don't understand compass markings on a bezel. The clean (cleaned?) bezel above is much nicer.

Still, it's a Valjoux 7750 based chrono so it'll sell for $1500ish new. :-(


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## -andrew- (Jul 4, 2012)

*Re: Torgoen?*



Him said:


> ...and I don't understand compass markings on a bezel.


I assume you mean on a non-rotating bezel on a watch without any rotating inner components, either?


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## Him (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: Torgoen?*



-andrew- said:


> I assume you mean on a non-rotating bezel on a watch without any rotating inner components, either?


No, I guess I mean on a watch. I know you can use a watch and the sun as a field expedient for finding north, but it doesn't need special markings on the bezel. On the other hand, easily keeping track of time intervals is MUCH easier with a time marked rotating bezel. So from my perspective painting a compass rose on the bezel of your watch adds nothing but takes away something useful.

I don't understand why anyone would put compass markings on a watch, or buy a watch with compass markings.


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## -andrew- (Jul 4, 2012)

*Re: Torgoen?*

Well, in my case, I'd like a rotating bezel with compass markings (enough of them) to use as a reminder bug when flying for a quick visual - for example, to note a heading, to note wind direction, or a bearing in a hold, or a bearing off a hold to an approach, or a missed approach heading, and so on; if a particular watch had a compass rose with an inward-facing pointer for north, it could also be used in conjunction with dial markings as a bug to remember altitudes, times, switching fuel tanks, cross-checking instruments against your compass, whatever you want to do.

Basically, I can tell you it would at least be useful to me. Aircraft instruments themselves often have these types of bugs on the bezels, but I fly enough older planes that don't.

But I could also use the pointer as a quick reminder to pick up milk at 5:30 

Timex makes this cool watch that lets you VERY quickly set an alarm by means of minute/hour pointer that is very quickly set by rotating the bezel, and this would add a lot of utility for me as well. I can think of a few things I'd do to improve it for flight, but it's a great idea:








Cheers
Andrew


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## Him (Jun 26, 2012)

*Re: Torgoen?*

Cool. I've flown, I've had CFIs, I've hung out at FBOs and forums, and I've never heard that suggested or seen it done, but it sounds like a good idea. Neat. Always good to learn new tricks. I use my diver watch bezel as a timer while flying, but mostly I have a knee board and a pencil. I've got to say that I'm not sure how a N/S/E/W marked bezel is essential to those uses but it sounds like someone finds it useful so I'll stop dismissing them as the equivalent of fixed bezel watches with diver markings.

As for the quick alarm setting idea... decades ago I had a digital watch with a bezel control (it was basically a fancy pusher arrangement) that allowed really quick setting of count down alarms. I used that all the time. After flooding it I switched to a diver and had to develop the habit of using the diver bezel for the same stuff. I wish there was a watch where you turned the bezel to a certain position, pushed a pusher once for seconds, twice for minutes, or thrice for hours, and it would start beeping when that hand swept the bezel marker.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

*Re: Torgoen?*



Him said:


> As for the quick alarm setting idea... decades ago I had a digital watch with a bezel control (it was basically a fancy pusher arrangement) that allowed really quick setting of count down alarms. I used that all the time. After flooding it I switched to a diver and had to develop the habit of using the diver bezel for the same stuff. I wish there was a watch where you turned the bezel to a certain position, pushed a pusher once for seconds, twice for minutes, or thrice for hours, and it would start beeping when that hand swept the bezel marker.


Great idea!

I used to use the alarm on my old-school digital Casio all the time. I tend to drill down into things. I think you would find that many people who survive grad school either have an innate obsessive streak or develop one as a survival mechanism. So an alarm can pull me back to reality when I've gotten totally sucked into a particular project. I have a digital Timex that I keep handy just for that use. Now, a watch with a really simple alarm is almost as good. The Timex idea really excited me, but I've had two Timex watches very similar to the one you posted above. The alarm was unreliable on both. I don't understand it. I hauled out one of them today and tried the alarm 10 times -- and it worked 3 times.

I'm having a second look at the Citizen Chrono-time AT posted earlier. I thought it was too big and chunky for me to pull off. But it does have an alarm, and it has a 1/5 second sweeping chrono hand that I really like. Better yet, unlike a lot of Citizen's watches, you don't have to mess with the crown to change modes to start the chrono. I think you do for the alarm, though. In contrast, the Citizen Calibre 2100 doesn't have the slide-rule, but the alarm feature is dirt-simple: the alarm has a dedicated crown, and turning it moves a pointer around the dial. So you can very quickly set it to an approximate time, and you can go back if you overshoot. It's simple enough that I might actually use it.

Unfortunately, this all is a compromise. I wish I could combine the best design features of my favorites into one really effective ergo design.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

*Size issues*

I just thought of another issue: how big a watch can I get away with before people start laughing and pointing and calling me "Flavor Flav". The Orient CTD09001B is supposedly 44mm wide but 11mm thick. Some of the other watches are... bigger. The Citizen Calibre 2100 that I was also considering (picture above) is supposedly 45mm and 15mm thick, but I'm not sure I can pull it off. My biggest watch is my Citizen Nighthawk, which I enjoy wearing quite a bit. For reference, here's a pic:

View attachment IMG_0634_small.png

and another
View attachment IMG_0633_small.png


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## KOB. (May 1, 2011)

mephisto said:


> not really.... and if you need to do calculations it's probably a better idea to have one of these in your shirt pocket rather than trusting your life to calculations based off of a watch bezel with dubious markings


|> +1 I cannot imagine why anyone would attempt to use the E6B on a watch for anything to do with flight calcs, but that's just me. There are a million (slight exaggeration) free apps available for android an apple iOS that do this as well as the old Handraulic E6B computers above. For watches with all that (IMHO) stuff cluttering up the dial and other than they may look 'cool', they are generally difficult to read (and even difficult to tell the time at a glance) because of all the clutter on the watch face. There is no way, bouncing around in the cockpit trying to fly a small aeroplane that you could dick around with the tiny E6B on your watch, and if you are on the ground, well see comment above.

I don't have a million hours, but am a member of the local aero club and have trained (license and recurrency) at a number of flight schools and I don't know of anyone that uses or has used a watch for any flight calcs (that doesn't mean no one has, just I don't know of anyone). There is a difference between a *Pilot Watch* (cool with many gizmos cluttering the dial) and a *Watch for Pilots *(actually useful).

FWIW, if you want a useful watch (although it doesn't do E6B stuff) the CASIO protrek range (either Digital or ANA-Digital) is pretty damned good with timers (count up/count down), dual timezones (local and UTC) on the watch face and some other less useful stuff AND easy to read at a glance.

Mens, Womens, Ladies, Digital, Analog, Watches | CASIO America, Inc.

Of course, YMMV....
KB.


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## Him (Jun 26, 2012)

I think a lot of it is that people are looking for a symbol more than a tool. I know people claim they use it for calculating tips but really, how hard is it to calculate a tip in your head. The slide rule watches exists because it is too hard to make an iconic depiction of a pair of David Clarkes the size of a lapel pin.


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## the_tool_man (Feb 6, 2012)

I like the Seiko SNA413. It was the first "nice" watch I ever owned.



They also have an all-black version, SNA411.

I also have (and love) a Nighthawk and a Chronospeed. The bezel in my Chronospeed isn't loose, as you describe, so maybe you just got a bad one. Good luck.

Regards,
John.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

Okay, good points. I'm not a pilot, and I'm not looking for a cockpit computing device. But neither am I looking for a non-functional symbol. Just two days ago I found myself in need of a rough conversion between kilometers and miles, and my Nighthawk would have come in handy if I had it on. I resorted to a command-line calculator in linux. 

What I've concluded from all this is that the thing I most want is a very legible, functional, chronograph in an analog display. The slide-rule is secondary for me, although if I have one, I'll be irritated if it doesn't work well. So I'm still thinking of the Orient, mainly because of its legibility and the especially nice chrono (1/5 second sweep, and big red tipped chrono hand that stands out against the black, and fairly thin hands that don't obscure the chrono minutes register too awfully much). It also has a slide-rule and sapphire.

I really like that Seiko SNA413 -- except -- I just cannot fathom why they have to make the inner numbers so tiny. Maybe -- then again maybe not -- I could have read them at 21, but not now. I can barely make them out in the picture. So for me it's just not a functional piece. Wish it was.


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## KOB. (May 1, 2011)

TickTockMan said:


> What I've concluded from all this is that the thing I most want is a very legible, functional, chronograph in an analog display.


There are many such watches ranging in price from a couple of hundred dollars to several thousand. Whist not as functional as say the protrek, I currently wear a steinhart Pilot Chrono (it's mechanical, Auto so it will never be as accurate as a quartz watch, but it does do +5s/day on a Valjour 7750 movement). What can I say, I just like it. It is basically a 47mm Nav-B UHR (Flieger) with 3 sub-dials and day/date. What I like about it is that none of the sub-dials cut into the numbers, the chrono is simple to operate, it's very legible and has good lume (for night flying if you do that) and it is easy to read at a glance. It also has the day/date as white letters on black background to fit in with the black dial. Again, there are many like this is mechanical and quartz at varying prices and fits into the 'cool' and 'functional' categories. Also comes in 44mm and PVD if you like black watches (I don't) and looks good on leather or bracelet.

I really love this watch, but, of course, YMMV.....
KB.


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

KOB, I like the way you think. I really like your Steinhart! That's what I'm talking about. Now, if I could only find one in about 42mm, and under $400! 

So I started looking. I really like the Archimede and especially the Stowa chono flieger watches, but those are way, way, way outside my budget.

Then I thought of Parnis. Their Top Gun looks like an homage to your watch, but it's just too bad that they made the chrono minutes register so hard to read. They made it 60 minutes instead of 30, and they only have marks for every 2 minutes. Fail.









Here's another interesting Parnis -- 40 mm, 12.5mm thick, model E661. It's pretty inexpensive.









I found the Ticino Vintage Hand Wind Pilot Chronograph, which I also like a lot, for under $300. It's smaller than your Steinhart, but big by my standards: 44 mm wide / 13.8mm thick.









Although not a flieger design, I really like Alex's (perpetual-watch.com) Chronograph2; I find it very easy to read, especially with the cut-out hands that avoid covering the chrono minutes register. It's 41mm / 13 mm.








Unfortunately, the watches I like and can also afford seem to be around 44mm wide (even the Orient, above). They look really cool online, but I'm a little worried that they will look like silly Christmas ornaments on my 6.5" wrist.


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## KOB. (May 1, 2011)

I'm not recommending these, but worth a look:

There are a few of the reasonably priced Seiko Chronos that aren't too cluttered.
Junkers have some reasonably priced ones
and try:

ZULU-01 | Chronograph Watches (chronos 42mm and sub $300)

Again, not recommending and no idea of quality just somewhere to look for that style of watch.

Also worth going to AMAZON and just typing in Pilot Chronograph or Aviation Chronograph - watches from $50 to $15,000.

KB.


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## ChadHahn (Jul 20, 2006)

I have two watches with an E6B slide rule, the Citizen Skyhawk AT and a Seiko Flightmaster like the one shown below. The Seiko is pretty cheap and is a nice watch although I do find it hard to read the sub dial hands at times.

When I wear a watch with a slide rule I find it useful. When I was in Mexico I used it to translate liters into gallons to make sure I was getting enough gas and to figure out what the temperature was. It also come in handy when watching the Tour de France to figure out the speeds.

Chad


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## KOB. (May 1, 2011)

You would be hard pressed to beat this for an affordable chrono ($70, yes $70). It says dive watch (WR 200m) , but the triangle is pointing upwards indicating a 'pilot' watch.

CASIO MSY501D-1B Men's DURO 200 Diver's Watch MSY-501D

Also available on leather.....

More images by forum member here (I copied ipolit's image for reference purposes only):

https://www.watchuseek.com/f78/my-casio-duro-696060.html

Again, cannot recommend because I have no first hand knowledge, but my Casio protrek is rock solid.

Oh, and it's 40mm case, so not too big for 6.5" wrist.


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## O2AFAC67 (Feb 8, 2006)

TickTockMan said:


> What I've concluded from all this is that the thing I most want is a very legible, functional, chronograph in an analog display. The slide-rule is secondary for me, although if I have one, I'll be irritated if it doesn't work well...


Hi, David. A few years ago I gifted a two tone Torgeon T2 to my son-in-law and he seems to enjoy wearing it. Although I can't give you a review of it, Ron Engels wrote one for WUS a few years ago here... Torgoen T2 You can do a google search and find the T2 new for well under $500 USD. It looks to me like a darn good bargain and perhaps what you are seeking...  Below is a pic I shot of my son-in-law's watch before he received it...
Best,
Ron


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## TickTockMan (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanks, guys! All great suggestions, all interesting.

Ron, I like that Torgoen T2 a lot. I think it's very Breitling-esque, and it's tempting. The reason that I stopped thinking of it early on was that I noticed it's bigger than the T1. I think the T2 is 44 mm by 14.6mm, whereas the T1 is 42 mm by 14.6mm (and 53 mm lug-to-lug). Kind of big for a 6.5 inch wrist.

Chad, that particular Seiko appeals to me because the inner scale on the the slide rule is bigger than it is on some other Seikos. I think it's really intense because of the busy dial. So then it becomes personality-matching.

KOB. is headed in the other direction. That Casio looks very sharp. One thing about it bothers me, though (and this is the same problem with the Parnis Top Gun): the chrono seconds register only has marks for 2, 4, 6, 8, 10... That was a deal-breaker for me just a few days ago. Tonight it occurs to me that it might actually be easier to read that dial than the kind with ticks for each minute, crammed into that tiny wheel. And I remembered that I have such a watch. So I wore it today:

View attachment my_timex_chrono.png


It's much smaller than most of the other watches I've been considering: about 38 mm x 10 mm by about 46 mm lug to lug, by my quick measurement. I recall times in a dimly lit tea shop where I had trouble making out the chrono minutes -- has my tea been steeping for 6 minutes? And there were a few times where one of the hands covered the chrono minutes. Maybe it was the rather faint white marks on the small, black register that made it hard to read. Nice watch, though. I like the clear design, the readability and shape of the main hands. The chrono works great.

My thought for today:










That's pic borrowed from the good folks at Long Island Watch. This Junkers G-38 is 42 mm by 12 mm. I downloaded the instructions, and the procedure for setting the alarm makes a lot of sense to me, especially since the hours and minutes are represented by separate dials. Using separate dials means that you can change the alarm time a lot faster than if you have to wind that minute hand around for each hour. And even when in "normal" mode, you can activate the chronograph by simply hitting the top-right button, as if you already were in chrono mode. The case is titanium. This might be a very functional and agreeable watch for me.

If I had a pocket full 'o benjamins, I think I'd spring for an Archimede Pilot Chronograph. But that probably costs three times what this Junkers costs. I'm still tempted by the Steinhart and other 44 mm pilot watches, but more and more I'm thinking that smaller is just more appropriate for me.

David


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## KOB. (May 1, 2011)

TickTockMan said:


> One thing about it bothers me, though (and this is the same problem with the Parnis Top Gun): the chrono seconds register only has marks for 2, 4, 6, 8, 10... *That was a deal-breaker for me just a few days ago. * Tonight it occurs to me that it might actually be easier to read that dial than the kind with ticks for each minute, crammed into that tiny wheel. And I remembered that I have such a watch.


Well the watch you have looks almost like the watch you want?

Notwithstanding that, you need to understand how the chrono movement works (and I don't know how it works in other than the Valjour 7750). In the Steinhart (Valjour 7750) it does have a very small sub-second dil at 9 o'clock. BUT this is not the chrono second hand - this is the second hand that is permanently ON. The chrono second hand is the center sweep second hand. So you can time (if that's what you want) pretty accurately to about half a second (although there is nothing in my limited flying that requires that sort of accuracy). I like the centre sweep second hand ON so I keep the chrono permanently on (yes that's OK for the movement, I checked with Steinhart). I also align the sub-second hand with the centre sweep second hand (just start the chrono when the sub-dial is at 12) for neatness. Look at the Steinhart images above - that's the chrono OFF position with the centre sweep second hand stopped at 12.

HTH


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## Matusalem_1324 (Mar 13, 2011)

Great thread and some nice pictures and info throughout. Looking at slide rule pilots watch myself and think I'm going the way of the nighthawk though more research to be done yet. Which watch did you end up with?


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## KOB. (May 1, 2011)

Matusalem_1324 said:


> Great thread and some nice pictures and info throughout. Looking at slide rule pilots watch myself and think I'm going the way of the nighthawk though more research to be done yet. Which watch did you end up with?


And I have to confess in a moment of sheer madness, I just bought a Citizen JY8020-52E. Well, what can I say, I'll never use 90% of the stuff on it, I just liked the watch, go figure. It's about as busy as you can get, but there's just something about it....








Cheers,
KB


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## nsx_23 (Jul 8, 2012)

Matusalem_1324 said:


> Great thread and some nice pictures and info throughout. Looking at slide rule pilots watch myself and think I'm going the way of the nighthawk though more research to be done yet. Which watch did you end up with?


I am pretty happy with my Nighthawk, especially now that its on a flieger-style strap (from Crown and Buckle if you were curious). A nice fusion of traditional and modern pilot IMO. The E6B is definitely on the harder-to-read side but then its more than enough to do some simple calculations. Like the OP, I do sometimes wish for a chronograph but I get by and rarely require exact timing on my wrist these days.

If you want a proper flight computer get one of these:










=P


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## JML (Dec 21, 2006)

Here's the newest Citizen with the E6B.


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