# Watch Packaging



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

Too much of anything could destroy you, Simon thought. Too much darkness could kill, but too much light could blind.
- Cassandra Clare, City of Lost Souls

I don't know if anyone here remembers the days when watches -- even very nice ones -- came in a small, sturdy little box. "Back in the day," you'd get a tidy little case with the watch in it and a little folder with the papers. It was a nice little presentation, but it was just enough. You couldn't fit three watches in the darn thing and you got the watch on a strap and sometimes you got a little tool so you could remove the bracelet/strap and maybe one or two extra lug pins.

Now, along with waistlines the boxes have grown, the accompanying documentation has become more elaborate, and the things resemble something I'd be more likely to put atop my dresser than stuff in the back of a closet. It seems as though the watch companies seek to convince me that I've bought something really, really nice....as though the thousands of dollars I just handed them wasn't sufficient to tell me that it damn well better be really, really nice. LOL. Do they think that maybe if the packaging is nice enough, I won't mind if the watch doesn't perform fellatio?

Enough already. I cannot help but think my watch could have cost about $500 less if they'd just put the thing in a plain box like they used to do. What's with all the elaborate packaging. Even not terribly expensive watches have insanely elaborate packaging these day. What is the point? Just what are we supposed to do with this stuff? Sure, you can send the watch back and forth for service in it, but you can do that with bubble wrap too. LOL. I just don't get it; I'm a consumer not a watch retailer. I don't need a beautiful way to display my watch; I just want to wear it.

End of rant.

All the best.

Testers for 7-Up consistently found consumers would report more lemon flavor in their product if they added 15% more yellow coloring TO THE PACKAGE." ― Malcolm Gladwell, Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking


----------



## zephyrnoid (Mar 12, 2011)

Watch packaging ( and well, MOST packaging ) elicits a very strong response in me. I have avoided emoting my feelings on this subject with regard to watches for now.
Suffice it to say that in our mobile 21st Century, this truism may be valid: If it's not lightweight, compact and travels well, it's probably a waste of effort and materials ( not to mention Shipping costs )
Like I said. I'll leave it at that for now or... let's agree on a single unified and modular design or two so our Gift container collections don't look like an exhibit in the Smithsonian Museum.


----------



## AbuKalb93 (Dec 17, 2012)

Exactly as you said Sir! Its to give you the impression that you just bought something really nice 
Consider the Patek box... its so gorgeous and big and varnishy its probably where $2k of the price goes towards! However, i think for many it does the job of well..."im not disappointed with this piece of luxury at all". 

On the other hand, some watch boxes are really cool but let's be honest, they do go over the top with those things and it just makes the watch look a lot worse.


----------



## little big feather (Mar 6, 2013)

I actually use two,as jewelery boxes.


----------



## ilitig8 (Oct 11, 2013)

For me the packaging is certainly overdone and I have a section of a extra bedroom closet dedicated to watch boxes and generally hate them as soon as the watch is removed from them. However, as useless as they ultimately are to me, I would be miffed if a Patek, for example, showed up in a tiny little cardboard box. I suppose this is the duelism of a WIS.

One thing I REALLY hate is generic manuals. For gosh sake at least print an individual manual for each caliber as it is 95% of the manual is useless for the particular watch. I find the high end less offending in this area but it isn't without its transgressors.


----------



## Horology_Chris (Feb 25, 2014)

Just me, but I really like elaborate boxes with lots of different compartments or an exquisite finish. I find that VC box you posted to be just brilliant, love the look of it. But that's just my opinion ;-)


----------



## GETS (Dec 8, 2011)

Seeing as box and papers has such a massive effect on resale value I get annoyed that there just isn't room in the safe for them!


----------



## ilitig8 (Oct 11, 2013)

GETS said:


> massive effect on resale value


And speed of resale.


----------



## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

Well now i know why Patek timepieces are so expensive&#8230; 
Seriously though-- even though all these packaging boxes-- as nice and as fancy-- I bet the real cost to the manufacturer is very little.



AbuKalb93 said:


> Exactly as you said Sir! Its to give you the impression that you just bought something really nice
> Consider the Patek box... its so gorgeous and big and varnishy its probably where $2k of the price goes towards! However, i think for many it does the job of well..."im not disappointed with this piece of luxury at all".
> 
> On the other hand, some watch boxes are really cool but let's be honest, they do go over the top with those things and it just makes the watch look a lot worse.


----------



## ilikebigbutts (Feb 27, 2013)

GETS said:


> Seeing as box and papers has such a massive effect on resale value I get annoyed that there just isn't room in the safe for them!


You just need a bigger safe 

I dream of a walk in safe with nice, well lit watch display cases. I imagine this to look more like a walk in wardrobe than a vault.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

Horology_Chris said:


> Just me, but I really like elaborate boxes with lots of different compartments or an exquisite finish. I find that VC box you posted to be just brilliant, love the look of it. But that's just my opinion ;-)


That's all good. I'm not "down on" consumers because they like them. I like them too; what's not to like about the boxes themselves? I just don't want or need them. I concur with you. They are often gorgeous and some are rather ingenious in their design.

In the scheme of things, the probably don't add much to the cost of a watch, at least not a watch costing $10K+. Cynic that I am, I suspect the purpose is more to make customers feel better about buying an item that has a 600%+ markup on it. I have to admit they facilitate making one feel like one is getting something fit for a king, but it's just one more way that I'm paying -- however small the sum -- for something I don't want, don't need and won't use. Why should I be happy about paying for the maker to "blow smoke up my a$$?"

My car dealer does the same thing. In 2007, I bought an E92. In 2010, I bought a sedan from the same store. Then a day later this jumbo fruit and cheese basket -- it was so big I couldn't reach my arms around it -- appears at my home, courtesy of my car dealer. Later that year, I bought my daughter's car and along comes another huge basket. In 2012 I bought my son's car from the same dealer and just like clockwork, another basket arrives. As if that's not enough, I've received all sorts of free stuff from them: key rings, a pair of sunglasses, a wallet, and navigation map updates. I appreciate the freebies, but really, "thank you," accompanied by lower prices, is all the "appreciation" I need.



GETS said:


> Seeing as box and papers has such a *massive effect on resale value* I get annoyed that there just isn't room in the safe for them!
> 
> 
> ilitig8 said:
> ...


No doubt that. But if the manufacturer's original box were far less fussy and still present, would it affect resale values any differently? Would the watch sell more slowly so long as whatever the original packaging was, it's present?

All the best.

There is a glaring FEE in FrEEbie that most of the people, more often than not, fail to see.
- Anuj Somany


----------



## not12bhere (May 4, 2013)

Ironically, if it matters to the buyer, the packaging is one area where ALS falls down pretty hard. That said, maybe they have it right given their 'niche of niches' target market being so focused on the watch itself. Interesting. . .


----------



## Mr.Sam Patek (Feb 24, 2012)

not12bhere said:


> Ironically, if it matters to the buyer, the packaging is one area where ALS falls down pretty hard. That said, maybe they have it right given their 'niche of niches' target market being so focused on the watch itself. Interesting. . .


I am not sure I agree. The box my Datograph came in is an equal to any of the boxes shown in the original posting. And the manual has a nice cover. It is my only Lange so I can't speak to their other models. I would have taken a photo but I wasn't at home.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

not12bhere said:


> Ironically, if it matters to the buyer, the* packaging is one area where ALS falls down pretty hard*. That said, maybe they have it right given their 'niche of niches' target market being so focused on the watch itself. Interesting. . .


Plain packaging sort of goes with the whole Teutonic austerity sensibility though, don't you think?

All the same, this (below) is not exactly my idea of "falling down on packaging." Three books, and a box, inside a box, inside yet another box. Look at the size of that last box relative to the size of the watch that goes inside. I don't think I need to say anything about the watch in the first pic except that I hope it's an automatic winder that comes with the watch and not merely a display thing.

EDIT:
I had to check and this is what the first watch is:
A. Lange & Söhne. A Fine and Rare Platinum Automatic Perpetual Calendar Wristwatch with 24 Hour Indication and Moon Phases
Signed A. Lange & Söhne, Glashütte I/SA, Langematik Perpetual Model, Ref. 310.025E, Movement No. 43'197, Case No. 138'136, Circa 2002
Cal. L922.1 three-quarter plate automatic movement with zero-reset mechanism, 43 jewels, 21k gold rotor with platinum edge, finely hand-engraved balance cock, light grey dial, applied Roman and square numerals, outer railway minute divisions, large double aperture for date below 12 o'clock adjusted by the button in the band at 10 o'clock, three engine-turned subsidiary dials for day combined with 24 hour indication divided into diurnal and nocturnal time, month combined with adjacent leap year indicator, and constant seconds combined with phases of the moon, polished circular case with brushed band, down-turned lugs, sapphire crystal display back secured by six screws, platinum _A. Lange & Söhne_ buckle, _case, dial and movement signed_
39mm diam.​ It also turns out that the first pic is the watch plus "an undated _A. Lange & Söhne_ Guarantee, leather-covered winding box, setting pin, product literature and outer packaging."

You get all that for $47K...well "you" don't but somebody did.


----------



## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

i find the big watch boxes to be a bit cumbersome.
same thing with shoes, bags, etc... too many boxes too little room.

also i'm sure most people don't use those boxes to store the watches either.


----------



## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

A few weeks back i was going to start a thread and ask where everyone stores their boxes….


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

mark1958 said:


> A few weeks back i was going to start a thread and ask where everyone stores their boxes&#8230;.


I throw them away or give them away directly or use them as fancy Christmas gift boxes for things that really aren't that fancy at all like gift card and other things that don't come in a box and that will fit. If they are the size of a standard, small watch box like the sort any cheap watch comes in, I'll keep it. I'll hang on to the old school long, thin, flat boxes/cases too. I'm not selling my watches, so I don't care.

All the best.


----------



## balzebub (May 30, 2010)

I for one feel that watch presentation boxes should be impressive, at least in line with the price of the watch. If i paid thousands or tens of thousands of dollars for a time piece, i expect it to be presented in a very impressive box with all the necessary accessories and papers. It's an important part of the purchase experience for me, it has to scream quality and luxury..yeah i am shallow like that. 

This is actually one of the reasons why i have yet to bite the bullet on a Seiko MM300....If only it came in a nicer presentation box as befits a 2,400 SGD watch.


----------



## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

tony20009 said:


> I throw them away or give them away directly or use them as fancy Christmas gift boxes for things that really aren't that fancy at all like gift card and other things that don't come in a box and that will fit. If they are the size of a standard, small watch box like the sort any cheap watch comes in, I'll keep it. I'll hang on to the old school long, thin, flat boxes/cases too. I'm not selling my watches, so I don't care.
> 
> All the best.


I once said that I would never sell my watches, but how quickly the tides change. I am glad, though, that I kept my boxes. When selling one of my watches, one of the first questions I get asked, of course, "is the watch complete with boxes and papers?" The fact is that box/papers actually do add to the resale value, and quite possibly to the perception-whether perceived or actual-of a watch's authenticity.

At the end of day, though, watch packaging is not a necessarily a pressing issue to me. If a watch comes with elaborate packaging, then so be it. If, on the other hand, the packaging is not so elaborate, then so be it. I'll live either way, and will gladly enjoy my timepiece regardless.


----------



## Sassicaia (Jan 27, 2013)

I for one like the nice presentation the high quality box offers, and think its an evolution to the simple packaging of the past. It adds to the enjoyment and experience of the purchase, and I'm happy to pay the premium for it to be included. My watch box is something that my watch sits when not being used, and lives perfectly in my office on a shelf.


----------



## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

I was there, "back in the day".


----------



## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

I do a lot of photography and when one sells their lenses -- the price on the used market is higher if you have the box. The lens boxes are nothing special and based on the size are generally larger than watch boxes. As a result, I keep all my lens boxes as well because you never know when you might decide to sell a lens. I can see the watch packaging having some value-- especially when their are concerns about fakes but i just do not understand the reason the box matters with camera lenses. There is nothing special or fancy about a lens box&#8230; The case I understand because it is used for protection. But in most cases these are small leather or canvas pouches. My point is that this phenomena is not unique to watches and perhaps even more irrational in other examples.



Vig2000 said:


> I once said that I would never sell my watches, but how quickly the tides change. I am glad, though, that I kept my boxes. One the first questions I get asked, of course, "is the watch complete with boxes and papers?" The fact is that they do add to the resale value, and quite possibly to the perception of a watch's authenticity.
> 
> At the end of day, though, watch packaging is not a necessarily a pressing issue to me. If a watch comes with elaborate packaging, then so be it. If, on the other hand, the packaging is not so elaborate, then so be it. I'll live either way, and will gladly enjoy my timepiece regardless.


----------



## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

I think they need to transpire class, size is not important to me.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

Vig2000 said:


> *I once said that I would never sell my watches, but how quickly the tides change.* I am glad, though, that I kept my boxes. One the first questions I get asked, of course, "is the watch complete with boxes and papers?" The fact is that they do add to the resale value, and quite possibly to the perception of a watch's authenticity.
> 
> At the end of day, though, watch packaging is not a necessarily a pressing issue to me. If a watch comes with elaborate packaging, then so be it. If, on the other hand, the packaging is not so elaborate, then so be it. I'll live either way, and will gladly enjoy my timepiece regardless.


I get it if people suspect they might sell the watch later. It just makes sense to keep all the "bits."

When one is pushing 60 as I am and has never sold a watch in 35+ years, a pretty clear trend has been established. One is kidding oneself to think the pattern is going to change. If a major mishap forces the sale of the watches, the incremental gains attributable to having had all that packaging sitting around for years and years is, IMO, the least of one's worries. <winks>

I'm okay with taking the risk that my life won't fall apart at the seams and require me to sell off my watches. Then again, I'm into having all the stuff I like and keeping it so that it shows how my tastes and values change over time; it's one way to know who I used to be compared with who I am now. Other folks may care more to experiment with this and then with that and settle on just a few. That's fine too. My way of doing it is just that, but it's not the only good way to do it.

All the best.

Courage is the most important of all the virtues because without courage, you can't practice any other virtue consistently.
- Maya Angelou


----------



## GETS (Dec 8, 2011)

tony20009 said:


> T
> But if the manufacturer's original box were far less fussy and still present, would it affect resale values any differently?


Absolutely not.

I don't mind them being fussy (that's ok and kind of 'nice') but I do mind BIG. That's just logistically frustrating.


----------



## not12bhere (May 4, 2013)

Interesting replies. Thanks all. On the ALS related reply i posted in this thread,
the ALS box is covered in vinyl. As I noted in my previous reply, I think the austere presentation is perfect for the brand, but a vinyl coated box does not measure up to PP or VC. They should consider another material for those that really care about presentation.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

not12bhere said:


> Interesting replies. Thanks all. On the ALS related reply i posted in this thread,
> *the ALS box is covered in vinyl*. As I noted in my previous reply, I think the austere presentation is perfect for the brand, but a vinyl coated box does not measure up to PP or VC. They should consider another material for those that really care about presentation.


I didn't know that. I'm allergic to vinyl. <wink> But at least the PETA people won't be upset over it. (kidding)

Glad you mentioned the vinyl. I don't think I'd care about that either, but knowing provides a different perspective on the matter.

I guess it's just as well, though. More leather for making things like car seats. (I hear BMW, MB, Audi and Porsche sales are all up this year. LOL)

All the best.


----------



## monsieurxu (Jun 2, 2012)

Tony2009, I totally agree with you on the unnecessity of big heavy boxes, which cost a lot to ship and are bad for the environment. They're bulky and take up space in the house, and are usually left unused. I've always wished for a return to the light but very robust packaging of the 1950s and 60s, and thankfully I got my wish a few months ago.

Would love to hear what you fellas think of this packaging...


----------



## little big feather (Mar 6, 2013)

monsieurxu said:


> Tony2009, I totally agree with you on the unnecessity of big heavy boxes, which cost a lot to ship and are bad for the environment. They're bulky and take up space in the house, and are usually left unused. I've always wished for a return to the light but very robust packaging of the 1950s and 60s, and thankfully I got my wish a few months ago.
> 
> Would love to hear what you fellas think of this packaging...
> 
> ...


Looks nice.....Package only....See the tassel as useless, spoils the cleanness of the design....IMHO


----------



## Djk949 (Jun 29, 2012)

I'd rather have a great watch at a great price than a showy presentation. Like food - I would rather have a dish that tastes great rather than look good.


----------



## Sassicaia (Jan 27, 2013)

Djk949 said:


> I'd rather have a great watch at a great price than a showy presentation. Like food - I would rather have a dish that tastes great rather than look good.


Why do you feel you need to choose?

Id rather have both.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

Sassicaia said:


> Why do you feel you need to choose?
> 
> Id rather have both.


I would too. I merely don't care to pay for both.

All the best.


----------



## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

I want to know what someone like amine does with his 80 watch boxes. Watch box room perhaps?


----------



## docwalleye (Aug 21, 2013)

I've been intrigued by the conversation here and have enjoyed the read - interesting perspectives on the packaging.

The majority of all watch packaging is made in China - while I cannot say for sure that wood Patek box in reference here is made in China, I can say with industry experience that most all watch packaging is. The entire package of a box like the Patek box in the OP, including the manuals, cards, etc. would run a cost to the manufacturer of well under $50 to make in any qty at all.

Not sure that it matters, but just to clarify the idea that the box (regardless of old and small or new and flashy) creates an extra expense of any sizable amount is just not the case generally speaking, even on a high-end brand.

My opinion on the packaging - it is created this way with a shiner and bigger mentality to absolutely justify the sales price of the piece. I believe that to be true whether the watch is $1,000 or $100,000.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

docwalleye said:


> I've been intrigued by the conversation here and have enjoyed the read - interesting perspectives on the packaging.
> 
> The majority of all watch packaging is made in China - while I cannot say for sure that wood Patek box in reference here is made in China, I can say with industry experience that most all watch packaging is. The entire package of a box like the Patek box in the OP, including the manuals, cards, etc. would run a cost to the manufacturer of well under $50 to make in any qty at all.
> 
> ...


No, it's certainly not a sizable amount, but it is an amount and there is markup on it and/or the watch based on it. That markup is money that I firmly believe, sizable or not, is better used by me and kept in my coffers than it is handed to the watch company.

Let's assume the cost of the box is $10 and is grossed up by $40 and baked into the selling price of a $25K+ watch. Given annual sales of something around 40K watches, that's $1.6M. So notwithstanding that yes, it's a minimal sum to me, I'd just as soon keep my "minimal sum" much as PP would rather receive yours and mine and everyone else's "minimal sums." That's why that fancy box is there; to garner lots of "minimal sums" and thereby boost profits. Even if we double the cost of the box to $20, that's still $800K and PP is not large enough to sneeze at $800K.

FWIW, and to put the figures in perspective, I recall in the mid '90s working for a huge financial services firm with annual profits regularly running at $20B+. At that firm, $2M was considered discretionary spending -- not subject to budgetary controls or supervisory approval and little different than petty cash funds -- for departmental directors (middle managers). PP is nowhere near that level of discretionary spending. Even $800K is a meaningful incremental gain to PP and if by tossing in a fancy box is all it takes to gain it, it makes good business sense to make you and others feel good by putting the watch in that box.

Now the documentation that's in the box, well, they may cost $1/watch, but that's a dollar I'll spend willingly.

All the best.

Art is making something out of nothing, and selling it.
- Frank Zappa


----------



## Crunchy (Feb 4, 2013)

Have you seen how much patek spent on the basel booth? I wouldnt be surprised if it hit million dollar level.

Patek's gross margins are probably 50-100%.

Most of the cost and expenses besides labor is for marketing.

Having a nice box creates the luxury feel. Any marketing person can tell you that packaging and presentation especially for luxury goods is probably just as important as any single feature of the product itself.

Marketing includes booths, boxes, boutiques (would you like some champagne while considering our $200k perpetual chrono?), thick brochures, sponsorships, ads, etc.

While you can say, oh I know this watch is good, so spare the marketing and discount the product by 30%. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Marketing drives sales, which drives profits, and profits to R&D to making even better products.


----------



## docwalleye (Aug 21, 2013)

tony20009 said:


> No, it's certainly not a sizable amount, but it is an amount and there is markup on it and/or the watch based on it. That markup is money that I firmly believe, sizable or not, is better used by me and kept in my coffers than it is handed to the watch company.
> 
> Let's assume the cost of the box is $10 and is grossed up by $40 and baked into the selling price of a $25K+ watch. Given annual sales of something around 40K watches, that's $1.6M. So notwithstanding that yes, it's a minimal sum to me, I'd just as soon keep my "minimal sum" much as PP would rather receive yours and mine and everyone else's "minimal sums." That's why that fancy box is there; to garner lots of "minimal sums" and thereby boost profits. Even if we double the cost of the box to $20, that's still $800K and PP is not large enough to sneeze at $800K.
> 
> ...


I'm not speaking to the profits the manufacturer could realize by inflating the packaging - I'm just putting a more accurate dollar amount associated with the cost of the packaging than the original post of thinking the watch could be reduced by $500 if the packaging were less elaborate. The difference between a $50 package and a $500 package is a meaningful sum.

Given the reference of financial services though, and trying to keep the post to the point of watch packaging - I'll try to illustrate the same principles across both industries. If I go to a financial advisor with a 10K portfolio to invest they will provide me back a presentation of how they will manage my money in a paper folder or like package. If I go to the same company with a 1 Million dollar portfolio for them to invest, they will hand me back the presentation in a leather folio with an embossed logo. Same reasons as the watch companies do it - it's the psychological power of the packaging and the idea that one is somehow better than the other despite containing the same type of information or product. In a luxury product or high-end service, the packaging is important whether a single consumer likes it or not.


----------



## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

:think: Kinda odd, the most famous watch box is just about the most cheaply made; Cartier.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

Watchbreath said:


> :think: Kinda odd, the most famous watch box is just about the most cheaply made; Cartier.


Interesting that you mentioned Cartier. As I read the sentence, I thought sure you were going to say Tiffany, but Cartier seems applicable too.

I'll just say that there's not a woman I know who doesn't light up when she sees a little Robin's Egg Blue box. I once got slapped and called a cad for presenting a non-Tiffany gift in a Tiffany box. I never made that mistake again. LOL

All the best.


----------



## zephyrnoid (Mar 12, 2011)

monsieurxu said:


> Tony2009, I totally agree with you on the unnecessity of big heavy boxes, which cost a lot to ship and are bad for the environment. They're bulky and take up space in the house, and are usually left unused. I've always wished for a return to the light but very robust packaging of the 1950s and 60s, and thankfully I got my wish a few months ago.
> 
> Would love to hear what you fellas think of this packaging...
> 
> View attachment 1434800


Perfect. Here's why:
1) Super compact and light weight with no superfluity in use of space or materials
2) Secure and safe protection
3) Easy to open and close
4) Understated elegance
5) Cordovan Color of the leather reminds me of Cartier ( a favored brand ) 
6) The tassel remind of of tasseled loafers and brogues, which is whimsical and elegant at the same time
7) Much cheaper to ship than behemoth vaults that some makers wish to impress us with
8) Perfect for travel
9)Stackable, stashable and eminently---- giftable!
My only complaint is that it only accommodates strapped watches so a version in a 'tube'/roll shape for braceleted watches would be grand
Thanks!


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

monsieurxu said:


> ...
> 
> Would love to hear what you fellas think of this packaging...
> 
> ...


Is that the same group as these guys? Hair Care | Celadon Spa They only do services in D.C.

I like the Celadon package just fine. It seems like it might be handy for traveling with one's watch. I probably wouldn't keep it either, but I don't see it as an excessive bit of show; it look like Celadon is wasting money and making me buy something I don't need.

All the best.


----------



## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

So i am talking purely about practical side.

The thing i like about the VC box is its half transparent, but i can tell you the box finish isnt as grt as i suppose VC to be, though i dont know if its made of solid wood or not.

Some six digit high end auto watches come with boxes being watch winders, which is pratical if there are not many pieces in the owner's collection (otherwise it will need a multiple spot watch case or winder).

The ideal packaging to me will be a luxury Calf watch case that is not big but long (the kind that doesnt use pillow, like entry level PP, Breguet and FPJ).


----------



## not12bhere (May 4, 2013)

I know they are not high end, but I really appreciated that my Breitling B01 based Transocean came in a leather carry/travel case. I think presenting any watch in a practical travel case is a great move. I think the branding/marketing folks would tell me that the lack of a large presentation box would dramatically hurt sales in certain market regions.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

not12bhere said:


> I know they are not high end, but I really appreciated that my Breitling B01 based Transocean came in a leather carry/travel case. *I think presenting any watch in a practical travel case is a great move. *I think the branding/marketing folks would tell me that the lack of a large presentation box would dramatically hurt sales in certain market regions.


That makes perfect sense and a lovely, leather travel roll or something akin to it is something that wouldn't bother me in the least. It's practical packaging, and it's practical to me, the consumer, rather than being self-serving and "practical" for the watch company's bottom line and "aura."

All the best.


----------



## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

On a side note I was at Louis Vuitton the other day and they wanted 1000 dollars for a travel watch roll that might fit three watches.

I mean maybe if Hermes asked for that I would understand but I was left wondering if Lv understood its typical clientele's watch collection.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

shnjb said:


> On a side note I was at Louis Vuitton the other day and they wanted 1000 dollars for a travel watch roll that might fit three watches.
> 
> I mean maybe if Hermes asked for that I would understand but I was left wondering if Lv understood its typical clientele's watch collection.


???


----------



## docwalleye (Aug 21, 2013)

Parmigiani does a similar package to this. The have an outer box that's a wrapped chipboard and inside is a travel roll, small leather wallet and large leather wallet. It's actually a fairly practical application. They also have a fairly interesting warranty card that's unique to each piece and can be validated online with use of a comparative image of the "bubble" on the card for authenticity.



tony20009 said:


> That makes perfect sense and a lovely, leather travel roll or something akin to it is something that wouldn't bother me in the least. It's practical packaging, and it's practical to me, the consumer, rather than being self-serving and "practical" for the watch company's bottom line and "aura."
> 
> All the best.


----------



## jpohn (Jun 19, 2009)

Do marketing studies demonstrate the efficacy of showy packaging? If so, that's that. I'd like to see a downsizing too. Diamond-studded ebony is fine...as long as it fits into a tote bag.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


----------



## docwalleye (Aug 21, 2013)

jpohn said:


> Do marketing studies demonstrate the efficacy of showy packaging?


Yes - absolutely...one could argue fairly well with regards to watches though, that it's a slightly different intended result than to "sell them" as most packaging would be created to do. In the case of watches, the pieces are mostly sold before seeing the packaging.


----------



## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Packaging just takes up too much room. but it's a major part of the whole presentation with a watch such as the Corum - Bubble Privateer.


----------



## GETS (Dec 8, 2011)

I think what is clear (from my recollection of the posts in this thread) is that we all like a bit of luxury but none of us have voted for the sheer SIZE of some of the boxes. Patek boxes and ALS boxes are just too big. AP aren't that much smaller. Frankly I find it all a bit frustrating as regardless of the production costs they do have a material effect on resale value. Therefore most keep them safe and this takes up so much room (especially in a safe).

Who wouldn't vote for smaller (albeit still luxury) boxes? I don't know one single person that wouldn't.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

I agree with GETS above. 

I checked out the Montblanc Nic R watch recently. Included with it is a winder, which accounts in part for the bulk of the packaging. In fairness, though I don't really want a winder, at least it's something of use, more use than just a pretty box.

Off Topic:
FWIW, re: the watch itself is a bit hard to read, at least without my glasses, but the pusher on it is a joy to operate. 

I also found out the MB actually have two factories, one of which is the former Minerva factory. Only the top end MBs are being made at the Minerva factory, and MB hasn't yet released any that I can tell. The guy I spoke with said that's where the minute repeaters and tourbillions will come from. I don't see any such watches on MB's site.

All the best.


----------



## not12bhere (May 4, 2013)

tony20009 said:


> I agree with GETS above.
> 
> I checked out the Montblanc Nic R watch recently. Included with it is a winder, which accounts in part for the bulk of the packaging. In fairness, though I don't really want a winder, at least it's something of use, more use than just a pretty box.
> 
> ...


What the guy you spoke with said is accurate, with the exception of the release of the higher end pieces. They are out there already. I have tried on the Nic R. numerous times over the past year, and as neat as the concept is, I just never pull the trigger on one.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

not12bhere said:


> What the guy you spoke with said is accurate, with the exception of the release of the higher end pieces. *They are out there already.* I have tried on the Nic R. numerous times over the past year, and as neat as the concept is, I just never pull the trigger on one.


MB has MR and "T" watches?

I knew walking into the shop that MB had the former Minerva factory. I didn't know about the other one, or that there was a "level split" between what's made in one and what's made in the other.

I was pretty impressed with the Nic R and had I been able to actually see the dial, I'd have probably just bought it right there. It's a handsome piece, that much I could see. LOL

All the best.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

As goes the thread topic, here's how a Philippe Dufour comes packaged. This is nearly the ideal watch case size and style in my mind. I could do without the wood and it could be a bit thinner, but all in all, it's at least reasonable.



















FPJ Resonance



















All the best.


----------



## mvmt (Dec 16, 2014)

I think at the heart of it is a dichotomy we all face at some level and each of us falls onto the scale at varying degrees.

It is the conflict of those who buy an expensive watch simply because they want the watch, and those that buy the expensive watch because they are buying into some kind of lifestyle purchase.

For those that are buying a lifestyle purchase, they want to be surrounded and reminded at all corners that they are embarking on a luxury adventure. Huge ridiculous boxes, glasses of champagne, being treated like royalty in exclusive boutiques where the only thing missing is an entry fee at the door, that they wouldn't mind paying. This is of course a cartoon picture but hopefully you see what I'm getting at.

At the other end of the scale, there are those who simply enjoy watches, the mechanical beauty of them, and can appreciate the individual craftsmanship of the thing. The purpose is simply to own it, wear it on the wrist with pride, and if luck would strike us have a conversation about it with someone we care about regarding why we choose it and the qualities we admire in it. This individual cares nothing about lifestyle or the aura of luxury and merely wishes to have the simplest transaction possible to receive the watch in question.

Two extremes, and no doubt all of us here fit somewhere between the two.

For the former personality, there is no issue with the pomp and circumstance that modern watch companies have invested in. For the latter personality, the box is a somewhat embarrassing personal reminder that the majority of people buying these things fall more into the other category, and the box itself a reminder that the majority of the money used to purchase the object of his or her desire is going to fund an enormous marketing effort that completely misses the mark of his own demographic. 

Personally, I fall heavily into the latter category and I toss the silly luxury boxes in the garbage as soon as I open them. Not only do I not want a constant reminder that the money used towards the watch is not in line with my naive ideals about what haute horology watch making should be about - if I ever do in fact sell the watch I would want to increase the chances that I would perhaps meet some like minded individual who cares not for the frivolous and vain ignis fatuus of exaggerated luxury and appreciates the actual time piece for what it is - a watch to wear and enjoy on the wrist. To me, the difference in selling price is more than worth the chance at having the chance at such an interesting conversation.


----------



## 68Deluxe (Jan 25, 2015)

ilitig8 said:


> For me the packaging is certainly overdone and I have a section of a extra bedroom closet dedicated to watch boxes and generally hate them as soon as the watch is removed from them. However, as useless as they ultimately are to me, I would be miffed if a Patek, for example, showed up in a tiny little cardboard box. I suppose this is the duelism of a WIS.
> 
> One thing I REALLY hate is generic manuals. For gosh sake at least print an individual manual for each caliber as it is 95% of the manual is useless for the particular watch. I find the high end less offending in this area but it isn't without its transgressors.


+1

If I was spending $$$$$$ on a new Patek I would expect some furniture to go with it.


----------



## 68Deluxe (Jan 25, 2015)

One of the Blancpain diving watches (500 fathoms?) comes with a humongous waterproof Pelican case. Not sure why a waterproof diving watch needs more water protection.


----------



## tigerpac (Feb 3, 2011)

Hazy picture but you get the idea...


----------



## drhr (Mar 14, 2011)

68Deluxe said:


> +1
> 
> If I was spending $$$$$$ on a new Patek I would expect some furniture to go with it.


They do, it's the box they already send ;-). . .


----------



## Leonine (Mar 27, 2012)

A box is by no means a make or break for me, but I think unique packaging is nice. I particularly like it with my limited edition Frederique Constant Runabout. It is in honor of Riva Runabout boasts.


----------



## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

I agree with everyone who has said that size is the issue. I enjoy a nice box in fine materials such as varnished wood, genuine leather, gold plated closing mechanisms, etc. It just doesn't need to be double the size of a shoe box.

For a watch packed only with documents (and maybe an extra strap), anything in a square format that measures more than six inches in width, length and/or depth is unnecessary. A flat rectangular box is preferable if the strap permits it. Exceptions could be made if there's an integrated watch winder or an extra collectible item inside.

Besides, 98% of all watches displayed in stores do not feature the box in the display. I'm willing to bet that most buyers have made their purchase decision even before they've seen the box. In fact it's probably in the used marked that boxes come into play, which is ironic given that the manufacturers don't benefit from this directly.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

WTSP said:


> I agree with everyone who has said that size is the issue. I enjoy a nice box in fine materials such as varnished wood, genuine leather, gold plated closing mechanisms, etc. It just doesn't need to be double the size of a shoe box.
> 
> For a watch packed only with documents (and maybe an extra strap), anything in a square format that measures more than six inches in width, length and/or depth is unnecessary. A flat rectangular box is preferable if the strap permits it. Exceptions could be made if there's an integrated *watch winder or an extra collectible item* inside.
> 
> Besides, 98% of all watches displayed in stores do not feature the box in the display. I'm willing to bet that most buyers have *made their purchase decision even before they've seen the box.* In fact it's probably in the used marked that boxes come into play, which is ironic given that the manufacturers don't benefit from this directly.


That extra collectible item, IMO, belongs in its own box if it's so darn collectible. Certainly if it's purely functional, a distinct container is still a good approach. Might the whole kit and caboodle be in one cheap or not cheap box overall? Sure, but the watch doesn't need to be in anything bigger than what it takes to hold a watch.

I don't choose a watch or, refrain from doing so, because of the packaging. I just would rather receive less packaging and glitzy "stuff", and less glitzy packaging, along with the watch. Yes, that stuff looks nice, but it's not what I want to pay for and I get no real benefit from it. I want a sturdy container that protects the watch. One that might be aesthetically suitable for sitting on top of my nightstand is okay, but not necessary. "Aesthetically suitable" and oversized is just too much.

I don't know if you've seen VC's catalog, for example. That thing, though about the dimensions of an A10 sheet of paper (length and width), it's easily as nice as any "coffee table" book one might buy for ~$50. That's just unnecessary. It's something I know I've paid for and it's something that I've paid for so that folks who will never buy even one VC watch can have one. I don't mind that the cost of my watch has to pay for catalogs, but catalogs of that ilk? I don't think so.

All the best.


----------



## GETS (Dec 8, 2011)

mvmt said:


> I toss the silly luxury boxes in the garbage as soon as I open them. Not only do I not want a constant reminder that the money used towards the watch is not in line with my naive ideals about what haute horology watch making should be about - if I ever do in fact sell the watch I would want to increase the chances that I would perhaps meet some like minded individual who cares not for the frivolous and vain ignis fatuus of exaggerated luxury and appreciates the actual time piece for what it is - a watch to wear and enjoy on the wrist. To me, the difference in selling price is more than worth the chance at having the chance at such an interesting conversation.


It's your money and you can of course do what ever you like with it. You earned it, and you also earned the right to do with what you bought with it, however you like.

However - whilst I recognise the above I do not understand the logic? You can still keep the box and papers safe and make a conscious choice to only sell the watch (at a higher price than you would have done without box and papers) to people that share your love of horology as opposed to owning watches purely in the pursuit of luxury? You seem to suggest that the two aims (selling at a good price and selling to someone that shares your views) are mutually exclusive objectives? It doesn't need to be so.

Again - whilst I said that it is your money - and you can do whatever you like with it (of course) - I have little respect for people that deliberately throw money away in order to make some kind of point that nobody really cares about. Why not do something different - keep the box - and donate the extra sales cash to a charity, save some animals, fund cancer research, or just save for another watch - as opposed to just throwing away money? It might be your cash but it doesn't make you logical.


----------



## mvmt (Dec 16, 2014)

GETS said:


> It's your money and you can of course do what ever you like with it. You earned it, and you also earned the right to do with what you bought with it, however you like.
> 
> However - whilst I recognise the above I do not understand the logic? You can still keep the box and papers safe and make a conscious choice to only sell the watch (at a higher price than you would have done without box and papers) to people that share your love of horology as opposed to owning watches purely in the pursuit of luxury? You seem to suggest that the two aims (selling at a good price and selling to someone that shares your views) are mutually exclusive objectives? It doesn't need to be so.
> 
> Again - whilst I said that it is your money - and you can do whatever you like with it (of course) - I have little respect for people that deliberately throw money away in order to make some kind of point that nobody really cares about. Why not do something different - keep the box - and donate the extra sales cash to a charity, save some animals, fund cancer research, or just save for another watch - as opposed to just throwing away money? It might be your cash but it doesn't make you logical.


Well, like Tony I never sell my watches so it's a moot point. And "logical" and "high end watches"?

Buying the watch in the first place is "logically" flushing money down the toilet in a different way. The box itself is superfluous compared to the original purchase. I donate plenty of cash to charity thank you, the proceeds from watch box sales wouldn't make a dent or change my habits in any way shape or form.

Love the ability for perfect strangers to jump to conclusions and ride high horses on internet forums. It never fails to amuse.


----------



## Leonine (Mar 27, 2012)

This is going downhill quickly.


----------



## drhr (Mar 14, 2011)

Well Tony initiated the thread in March 2014 was it? Actually, been pretty level ground for awhile . . .


----------



## mvmt (Dec 16, 2014)

Leonine said:


> This is going downhill quickly.


That was an unfortunately exchange no doubt, but what kind of response does one expect when one spends several paragraphs looking down his or her nose at another contributor and giving some wildly pretentious reply about said behaviour.


----------



## GETS (Dec 8, 2011)

.


----------



## GETS (Dec 8, 2011)

.


----------



## not12bhere (May 4, 2013)

ALS really drops the ball on watch packaging. I don't care much personally but I firmly believe it is a big mistake by the company for the market they aim at.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

mvmt said:


> ...
> 
> Love the ability for perfect strangers to *jump to conclusions and ride high horses *on internet forums. It never fails to amuse.





Leonine said:


> This is going downhill quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what exchange struck you as someone's riding the high horse. I read through the thread quickly, and though I'm usually pretty quick to rail against snobbery, none of it came across to me that way. Maybe I glanced too quickly over the posts to have noticed?

I'm fairly certain that from a marketing standpoint, a fair bit of what mvmt wrote here -- https://www.watchuseek.com/f381/watch-packaging-1004198-6.html#post15573394 -- is right. The whole "lifestyle" aspect I'm sure is in play. That's really nothing new in terms of marketers knowing how to "blow smoke up one's a$$" in order to make them feel the thing they just bought, and s/he who just bought it, is even more special.

I didn't think much of that when I was younger, and my view hasn't changed. Yes, of course, I enjoy being made to feel special, when I've actually done something that's noteworthy. Who doesn't? The thing in my mind is that merely spending my money isn't anything special. That I appreciate an object for whatever fine qualities it has is also nothing for which I deserve to be coddled or applauded.

More importantly, however, if there's any one thing about the lavish packaging and extras (beyond a tool that one might need to remove the strap, along with an extra strap) that bothers me in a mental/emotional way, it's that I'm paying to be told whatever message the makers feel they are conveying with the elaborate packaging and extras. I can't say exactly what message they think they are conveying, but whatever it is, I don't want to pay extra (no matter how small the sum) to be tacitly told something about myself by the maker of the goods and services I buy. Merely thanking me for spending my money on their goods will be sufficient, and a short note saying exactly that will be sufficient.

Other:
Have any of you ever bought a watch because you left home and forgot to put one on? I've done that on several occasions. That's how I cam by my FM Sunset. To this day, I don't know what sort of box the thing would have come in. I bought it, wore it out of the store and all I took with me was the receipt and warranty card. The same thing happened with a Tag and two Citizens, although I'm sure their containers weren't likely to be elaborate. I really do just want the watch. The store clerk can discard the rest. That said, I mostly buy uncomplicated watches. I have yet to buy one for which I needed instructions. LOL (Unless you consider a Reverso Duo uncomplicated. I wanted to read the instructions for that one.)

All the best.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

not12bhere said:


> ALS really *drops the ball *on watch packaging. I don't care much personally but I firmly believe it is a big mistake by the company for the market they aim at.


Do yo mean they do so by going too far or not far enough?

















I prefer the long, slim and flat kind, but the smaller one shown above is reasonable IMO. The little box the watch is in is all that's needed. Even ALS up the ante, so to speak, if one bought the platinum, LE Zeitwerk. I suppose a "moat" in a box made someone feel special. LOL Maybe it evokes images of their home or something?









(Stroll through a $13 million chateau with a moat - Video - Personal Finance)

Out of curiosity, what else would you have them do to provide you with basic watch?

Perhaps they keep the packaging on uncomplicated pieces to a minimum so they have money to provide watch winders to folks who buy more elaborately featured ones.










All the best.


----------



## reuven (Mar 27, 2015)

so could someone explain to me what exactly is wrong with ALS packaging on their basic pieces other than using faux leather?


----------



## not12bhere (May 4, 2013)

reuven said:


> so could someone explain to me what exactly is wrong with ALS packaging on their basic pieces other than using faux leather?


The design of the ALS packaging is great. I think they nail their aesthetic . .the materials. . .hmmm. . leather'ish. I think faux leather with a 36K watch is a mistake. Obviously I didn't let the packaging influence my buying decision, but if you are competing with the Swiss, you are going to have to up your game. Or do what NOMOS does, just go with wood. But fake materials designed to look Authentic is not great.


----------



## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

not12bhere said:


> The design of the ALS packaging is great. I think they nail their aesthetic . .the materials. . .hmmm. . leather'ish. I think faux leather with a 36K watch is a mistake. Obviously *I didn't let the packaging influence my buying decision*, but if you are competing with the Swiss, you are going to have to up your game. Or do what NOMOS does, just go with wood. But fake materials designed to look Authentic is not great.


Exactly. I don't think anyone does, which is why I'd just as soon the not make the packaging be more than merely functional in the way it used to be.

All the best.


----------



## not12bhere (May 4, 2013)

I think I mentioned in the past how impressed I was that Breitling provides some of their Transocean B01 watches in a leather travel case. I thought that was a great idea. I think my issue with ALS is, if you are going to try and compete on a presentation box, it should be authentic. Given that the cost of producing and packaging their watch has very little to do with the price the consumer pays for it, you aren't actually paying 'extra' for the box. As such, fake materials is just tacky and maybe a little insulting in that they saved $40 on the box and it is highly unlikely that savings was passed on to you in any way? Maybe I am just tired.


----------

