# What are the engraved numbers on the side of the CASE of LACO FLIEGERS? (not the crown side)



## illition (Dec 27, 2011)

Hi guys i know this might be a stupid question but i was just wondering what the numbers represent? I am seriously considering purchasing a LACO MIYOTA B and notice that the numbers, usualy written in FL130230 or something, bunch of random numbers i dont really understand :x are omitted for this particular model

What do the numbers actually stand for? 

Thanks guys! 

Would it be a silly idea to buy my watch like that and send it somewhere to get those numbers engraved in? I like the look of it and feel like it just completes the entire look of the watch :x


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

During WW II the German Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM) classified all "navigation instruments" from Fl. 23000 to Fl 23999. Fl 23235 for example was used for the "Armbandkompass". The Beobachtungsuhren got Fl 23883, on-board clocks got Fl 23885, Fl 23886, Fl 23887 (Bo-UK 1 and Bo UK-2).









Fl. 23883 and Fl. 23235

The German term „Beobachtungsuhr" goes back to pilot´s watches of WW II. Strictly translated it has to be an „Observer´s watch" or „Observation watch" but on most watch related fora you`ll read „navigator´s watch", „pilot´s watch", „B-watch" or even „Flieger", which is the expression I like most.

These B-watches have been made for the German Luftwaffe by only 5 manufacturers

A. Lange & Söhne
Laco (Lacher & Co)
Stowa (Walter Storz)
Wempe (Chronometerwerke Hamburg)
IWC

and contained high quality pocket watch movements:

Lange & Söhne: cal. 48/1
(due to limited capacities watches have been assembled by Huber/Munich, Felsing/Berlin, Schieron/Stuttgart, Schätzle & Tschudin/Pforzheim, Wempe/Hamburg).
Laco: Durowe cal. D 5
Stowa: Unitas cal. 2812
Wempe: Thommen cal. 31
IWC: cal. 52 SC (SC= „seconde central")









IWC Fl. 23883








Laco Fl. 23883








Stowa Fl. 23883

The specifications of these watches had been defined by the „Reichsluftfahrtministerium" (RLM) - Imperial Air Ministry (see attached file)










Due to those specifications all B-watches had the following features in common:

- A case diameter of 55 mm
- Marked on the back with FL 23883 (FL = flight, 23 = navigation)
- Equipped with large crowns in order to be used with gloves
- Hacking movement (the second hand stops when pulling out the crown / essential for a precise time setting)
- Breguet balance spring
- Regulated and tested as chronometers
- Long leather strap (to be worn on the sleeve of a flight jacket).

There have been two different types of dials (Pls. note: there are other figures available on the net. not sure whioch are correct)

Type A (Baumuster A) from 1940 to January 1941

a classic dial with numerals 1 to 11 and the triangle with two dots at 12

Type B (Baumuster B) starting in January 1941

Big minute numerals from 5 to 55 and a small inner circle with numerals for h, at the position of 60 min a triangle and a line on its top.

If your are interested in watches of WW II and their history I recommend to visit the hompage of Konrad Knirim (Militäruhren: Collectors Site for Military Timepieces) .



> Would it be a silly idea to buy my watch like that and send it somewhere to get those numbers engraved in?


Yes.

http://www.watchuseek.com/site/images/laco/WUS_Laco_Project.pdf


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

milesthng said:


> Would it be a silly idea to buy my watch like that and send it somewhere to get those numbers engraved in? I like the look of it and feel like it just completes the entire look of the watch :x


No, I don't think it would be silly for you to have the ordinance number engraved into the Miyota case. The Laco Miyota B-Uhr is a modestly priced entry-level model, and to keep its pricing reasonable, extra features that add to a watch's production cost such as engraving its case are not included. If you wanted to have it engraved on your own, I think it would be pretty cool. In fact, I would send Laco an email first and see if they'll do it for you. I seem to recall having requested just such a thing a few years ago and they were willing, at the time, to take care of it for an additional cost.

There are other watch manufacturers that include the ordinance engraving on their models too, so you're right that it does help to complete the look of your watch. Let us know if you go ahead with it. You might set a trend in the process because I can't recall anyone having performed that mod before.

A few B-Uhr models I own that have the engraving:


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## Myron (Dec 27, 2009)

Uwe W. said:


> No, I don't think it would be silly for you to have the ordinance number engraved into the Miyota case. The Laco Miyota B-Uhr is a modestly priced entry-level model, and to keep its pricing reasonable, extra features that add to a watch's production cost such as engraving its case are not included. If you wanted to have it engraved on your own, I think it would be pretty cool. In fact, I would send Laco an email first and see if they'll do it for you. I seem to recall having requested just such a thing a few years ago and they were willing, at the time, to take care of it for an additional cost.
> 
> There are other watch manufacturers that include the ordinance engraving on their models too, so you're right that it does help to complete the look of your watch. Let us know if you go ahead with it. You might set a trend in the process because I can't recall anyone having performed that mod before.
> 
> ...


I'm right here with Uwe on this one. If you write to Laco, and they say that, yes, they'd do this for you on a Miyota case, I'd order one too. I've been looking for a good excuse to pick up one of these Miyota fliegers. Who knows? You might just become the person responsible for starting a mini-WUS-LE. So please let us know what they say.

Myron


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

Uwe W. said:


> A few B-Uhr models I own that have the engraving:
> 
> View attachment 642977


Three cases --> three different fonts --> one company? :-s

Volker


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

brainless said:


> Three cases --> three different fonts --> one company? :-s


The fonts used in the engraving of the original B-Uhren varied with each individual manufacturer, but I've also seen typographic variations within the same manufacturer too. However, in this particular case the watches in my photo are from two different manufacturers. The one in the middle is of course the Laco version of the FL engraving while the other attempt to mimic the original IWC version.


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## Shawnny (Mar 12, 2010)

Those #'s don't look engraved, they look stamped or cast into the case or possibly CNC'ed into the case.


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## 47 Ronin (Feb 6, 2012)

All 3 appear engraved to me. the top and bottom cases might be laser engraved as the depth across the script looks fairly consistent. Very sharp and clean in the corners of the script. The case in the middle may be the same. If I were to guess, the first 3 appears off a little on height, maybe just the photo on the middle case. I would say probably old hand needle type engaving. CNC, I highly doubt it.


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