# Citizen Eco Drive - Charging Problem



## jkamboj (Jan 27, 2009)

Dear Learned members

I changed the rechargeable battery of Citizen Eco Drive SOLAR-TECH 180. It has movement of GN-4-S and other number is 7871.
After replacing the MT 920 rechargeable battery, I kept the watch for several hours under a table lamp of 60 W incandescent bulb. Even after about 10 hours of under light, its not charging. When I pull the stem and keep it under light for few minutes and then i push the stem it works. However, after just keeping the watch for two minutes in full dark, it goes jumping two seconds stage.
I looked at Citizen website, first of all there was no 7871 number on their site, but it does have 7861 which says full charge in 3.5 hours in sun light and 12 hours in cloudy day.
Does any one have experience like that before?
What do you suggest in this situation?

Jaswant Kamboj


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## sixties.nut (Apr 5, 2009)

Next time when you are able to get the watch to work. Notice the second hand, does it sweep every second or every two seconds? If it sweeps every two seconds, it indicates the timing chip is working. If it sweeps every second it indicates the battery is so low of useful current that the chip cannot count properly. Let us know what you see.


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## sixties.nut (Apr 5, 2009)

Think more about this, maybe your problem isn't electrical at all. By changing the battery twice it sounds unlikely that two replacement battery's are bad.

Just so you are aware, any slight binding of the crown stem will cause the cannon pinion to also bind and cause problems like you are experiencing. Are you sure the movement is seated correctly in the case when you tighten the back down?


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## jkamboj (Jan 27, 2009)

Dear all

Thanks for your looking into my problem. Now, I charged the watch for 4 hours in bright sunlight of Toronto. When I kept the watch for charging, I pulled the stem and later after 4 hours of charging in sunlight, when i started the watch, by pushing the stem in and the watch worked fine. However, when i put the watch for thirty second in dark room, the watch start doing the trick of two seconds sweep. Then another four hours of charge in sunlight. Again the same thing, once the watch goes to dark room for 30 seconds, the watch shifted to two second jumps.
The watch behaves the same way with the old as well as the new replacement secondary battery. It does not charge enough energy to sustain just for thirty seconds in dark.
Now what the learned crowd would like to suggest me. 

Jaswant Kamboj


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## sixties.nut (Apr 5, 2009)

What you have described with 1 second ticks until you close off ambient light to the solar cell then seeing it go into 'charge alarm mode' with the two ticks, pretty much eliminates any binding problems with the mechanics. It sounds like to me.

Your back to looking at an electrical problem. Either the solar cell is faulty either with the cell itself OR at the secondary storage cell connection OR the charge regulating integrated circuit. As such, with any of the above faults, you will need test instruments that regular enthuisast's do not have available.

I have looked at both models that specifically mention SOLAR - TECH 180 and tried to find documentation at the Citizen site. I could not find anything useful other than the storage capacitor replacement reference and the how-to guides. This I imagine is because the movements are not typical Miyota made parts and are proprietary Citizen technical documents.

Maybe, some who have more experience with these models can offer some troubleshooting tips. I think it is a problem for the service center at this point. I would think that this watch is still under warranty though.


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## jkamboj (Jan 27, 2009)

Dear Sixties.nut

Yes, I don't have any specific instruments to go into the details of fault finding, however, from today's observations (watch is working good without secondary battery because its placed next to window, now its cloudy and raining not too much light now in Toronto, still working and keeping accurate time) I think the problem lies some where in the connection to the battery or may be battery is not holding the charge (expired) which does not seems to be because my supplier is a reliable man.

What do you think?

Jaswant Kamboj


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## sixties.nut (Apr 5, 2009)

Jaswant,

This tells me that neither the movement nor the battery is faulty. Are you the original owner of this watch? I ask this because I suspect one of two things is happening here. Both have the same consequence. Maybe the original owner tried to replace the storage cell and installed it incorrectly by installing the WRONG cell. Some watches will need to have the cell/battery installed obversely to what a normal energy cell will be placed into the movement. In Example: The Accutron cells go into the cases with the (+) electrode UP instead of Down! Maybe you are following the same mistake from previous owner.

OR

You simply have the wrong cell to start with.

WHY????

Because your watch will work without the cell, then once you place the cell into the watch, it quickly bleeds down. This confirms the electrical connections are good. You are unwittingly creating a Short-Circuit by placing the cell you have into the watch.

I believe the cells you are using are 'good' because they have enough charge in them to counter/oppose the charging current of the primary solar cell.

Hope this helps solve your problem! )


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## jkamboj (Jan 27, 2009)

Dear Friend 

Its a customers watch and I try to find out the part number which is 295-56 and watch movement no is 7871. As for as position of battery is concerned, there is a golden colored attachment to the battery which goes little inside the movement when we place battery in place. So the battery seems to be right one and the position of the battery installed is good too, because this metal attachment leads to the right position of the battery, otherwise we can not insert the battery in.
I have found some difference in new and old battery. The old battery have the yellow metal (gold plated) attachment on the negative side, and there are two small holes in direction of the extension that goes into the movement, and it have two depressions in the at right angle to these two hole described before. To me these two depression seems to be just welding of the attachment of yellow metal part with the battery.

I am not sure, if there is a technical fault with the battery.

Another observation, the knob that goes inside the movement does not seems to be touching any part of the watch. There is one point on where negative side of battery sits which touches the battery. I am not sure if its for taking away the current to the circuit or is it bringing the charging current to the battery. There are two other contact points to the battery but are from positive side clamp like holder for battery.

So now I would like to know where we are on this problem?


Jaswant Kamboj


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## sixties.nut (Apr 5, 2009)

Please take some good photo's of what you are looking at for us to observe for ourselves, please include a shot with the battery installed and one without the battery installed. Something that does not meet the eye is going on here, this is a simple swap out for an energy cell. Please post some photo's if possible.


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## jkamboj (Jan 27, 2009)

I would try to post photo's as soon as possible. I do not have a good camera, may be I have to borrow someones.


Jaswant Kamboj


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