# Identifying Vintage Zenith Watch



## patrickparson (Mar 25, 2014)

Hello. I have an old Zenith watch that I would like to know more about. It is hard to see the serial number in the picture of the mechanism - It says: Zenith Watch Co. 15 Jewels 2438759 Swiss 3ADJ: 
On the inside of the case: E.E.R. Wadsworth 14 Karat 1080087
On the back of the watch: 12 - 25 - 23 (looks like initials "SM")

I haven't been able to find another one that looks like it - any help would be appreciated.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Welcome to the Zenith forum. You have a lovely 14K gold vintage Zenith from the twenties. I think I can just about make out the movement serial number as 24xxxxx which would point to a production date in 1920. The movement is a smaller one of the standard Zenith movement range at that time. Give me the diameter and I'll identify it for you. I presume that the hands and probably the numerals on the dial would originally have been done with radium lume which would make the watch what is generally called a "Trench Watch". It is probably too late for WWI service and whether it was really made for military service at all is debatable. But it is still a nice watch in excellent condition!

Hartmut Richter


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## patrickparson (Mar 25, 2014)

Thanks so much for the information. The diameter of the movement is 24mm. Do you know what kind of band would have been original to this watch (I am assuming that the band is not original)?


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

24mm visible probably equates to ca. 25mm in total (on these old movements, there is usually a hidden "lip" dial side). This is then an 11''' movement (''' denotes old french _lignes_, 1''' = ca. 2.25mm) and is probably the Cal. 11''' N.V.S.I, later designation 11'''-2 (since it is a _savonette _movement with the small seconds at right angles to the crown - a _lepine _movement with small seconds opposite the crown is the Cal. 11'''-1). This movement was made between 1904 and 1926 in about 102 000 pieces.

As for the band, it would very likely have been a leather band as well. If the case has closed lugs, i.e. no removable pins between the lugs, it would have been one sewn on or closed by means of a stud rather than the modern contraptions.

Hartmut Richter


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## Hessu (Dec 9, 2012)

Hartmut, I was thinking more likely 10,5" it is 23,3mm. If you measure with a mauser when movement at the case, it's then more than 23mm.

The place where from different factories have measured the ligne number has been diffrent, also there was a dispute how much 1 ligne is in metric system. Standardisation in matter came maybe late 50's or early 60's. Speaking of Zenith, 50's calibers 40, 126, 120 are 12", but they do not fit properly to the Bergeon 12 ligne movement holder. The bridges go into it but the plate does not. It should go to holder up to the lid, of which purpose is to hold it steadily in holder. Martel movements 25xx fit perfectly.








Pic of Bergeon movement holders taken fron The CousinsUK site.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

The older Zenith movements (just like most movement of their time) had a hidden edge. If you were to extract the movement, it would have a slightly bigger main plate than the diameter of the bridges on the "movement side". The extra material fits into the case and helps retain the movement so that it can only be extracted dial side (once the movement holding screws are taken out from the back). Hence, if the "visible" part is 24mm, I would expect the movement to be a little bigger, probably 25-25.5mm. In other words, an 11''' movement.

Hartmut Richter


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