# Sticky  About Marina Militare posts



## Ernie Romers

Hi all,

Sorry to announce to you that we at Watchuseek no longer allow the use of "Marina Militare" other than related to the real Panerai product.

Here's why: https://trademark.trademarkia.com/marina-militare-79011293.html

Hope you will understand.


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## JohnG2

One more reason to go sterile baby!!! :-!:-!:-!


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## KTMracer

"Scooby-Doo" is now WUS code for that left unspeakable!


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## Craig M

What about "MM"...is that still ok?


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## JohnG2

Craig M said:


> What about "MM"...is that still ok?


I don't know, but seriously, guys, just go sterile and you won't have to worry about these problems anymore!


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## KTMracer

Craig M said:


> What about "MM"...is that still ok?


I like M&M's!:-d


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## houndoggie

KTMracer said:


> I like M&M's!:-d


I am wondering if the Forum got threatened.. A C and D letter??

Since the Marin... Militar... is a trademark infringement are the sales of said watches restricted as well?


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## tick-tock

Watchuseek Admin said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry to announce to you that we at Watchuseek no longer allow the use of "Marina Militare" other than related to the real Panerai product.
> 
> Here's why: http://www.ipo.gov.uk/madrid?madridnum=M850768
> 
> Hope you will understand.


I don't understand. So the term is UK trade mark. So are a bunch of other band names but their use is allowed here, is it not? I can understand not wanting them for sale here but what's the reasoning behind not evening typing the words? Should I not type Rolex, McDonalds, Toyota, or any other Trademarks?


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## JohnG2

tick-tock said:


> I don't understand. So the term is UK trade mark. So are a bunch of other band names but their use is allowed here, is it not? I can understand not wanting them for sale here but what's the reasoning behind not evening typing the words? Should I not type Rolex, McDonalds, Toyota, or any other Trademarks?


You can say Rolex as long as you are not talking about a fake. But if the word Marina Militare is trademarked by Panerai then it makes non-Panerai MM's kind of like replicas and hence we can't talk about them.

That is the way I read it. I assume that would include the posting of pics then as well? If so, this section will have a LOT fewer posts....


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## rkny

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is saying the words can't be typed. In fact Ernie says "other than related to the real Panerai product", meaning if you have a genuine MM, feel free to discuss it. He is saying don't come here to sell or seek advice/information a non-Panerai manufactured MM homage...any more than you should come here seeking advice on a $100 fake Rolex. 

What isn't mentioned though, are watches that mimic the crown guard system of the Panerai, as that design is also trademarked.


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## jakisbck

Like JohnG said sterile is the way to go or even painted dials is another way also, just dont use the name. Im wondering if the G-man will get smashed too because of all the publicity and funds that is coming his way makes a dealer wonder how much money he's loosing ;-)


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## aliasrichmond

TZ-UK banned the selling of them in its sales corner, discussing them is a mute point, if Richmont has won a legal case against sellers then defacto they are replicas. I guess discussing them favourably is akin to legitimizing them, maybe this is Ernies thinking....


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## Ernie Romers

Correct, no more discussions about the non genuine MM and no more pictures showing the non genuine MM. I'm taking the Richemont Group very seriously and support and respect their products and trademarks.


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## Jockinho

Watchuseek Admin said:


> Correct, no more discussions about the non genuine MM and no more pictures showing the non genuine MM. I'm taking the Richemont Group very seriously and support and respect their products and trademarks.


Good decsision and something we all have to respect. Can't really say I'm suprised either about this coming and it's definately not worth messing with Panerai ;-)


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## houndoggie

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*



Watchuseek Admin said:


> Correct, no more discussions about the non genuine MM and no more pictures showing the non genuine MM. I'm taking the Richemont Group very seriously and support and respect their products and trademarks.


Okay..

But sterile and painted dial PAM homages are still safe, right?


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## JohnG2

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*



houndoggie said:


> Okay..
> 
> But sterile and painted dial PAM homages are still safe, right?


Yes they are! :-!


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## GuySie

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*

I'll respect Ernie's wishes, but I do have to ask: was there a cease & desist letter or other threat from Richemont that caused this sudden change of heart by the WUS management? Or is it a choice made on its own? The trademarks have been known and discussed on WUS for years now, so it's hardly new information. WUS had the simplicity of the "if the brand name is not on there, it's not a replica" stance, something I was quite fond of. It made it possible to discuss watches here that would otherwise erupt in the usual flamewars about the legalities of homages. So I find this sudden 180 a bit surprising, and disheartening as I wonder what will be banned next...



tick-tock said:


> I don't understand. So the term is UK trade mark.


It's not. That's an international trademark, applicable in all countries that agreed to the Madrid protocol.



houndoggie said:


> Okay.. But sterile and painted dial PAM homages are still safe, right?


Actually, if we're suddenly going to respect the MM trademark, there's one on the Panerai crown guard too. I suppose we'll see the Luminor cases banned from the forum next.


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## visitor

This is ridiculous. Between the avid Seiko/orient/etc. over recommendation (Seiko/orient specifically NOT wanted? that's OK, lets recommend Seiko anyhow! :rolleyes) and now sanctioning which homages can and cannot be discussed (is alpha next? you know, with the "explorer, and the submariner, etc.. probably not because they PAY to advertise here, huh?) you may as well shut this section down and redirect everyone to the Seiko/citizen section  I am sure this post will be removed, and I may even be sent on a vacation, but I am not so sure it much matters anymore, the forum gets more and more closed minded and therefor useless every week sadly.

In any event, it is your forum to run as you see fit.

Also- I am ASSUMING (and do please correct me if wrong!) That non branded (sterile, painted dial/etc) luminor cases will NOT be allowed to be shown, or talked about, due to the crown gaurd being protected, correct? Better enforce all the rules....


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## Craig M

well I better change my signature haha!

I can't wait until Panerai trademarks the word "watch" so we can all bow down to them...


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## JohnG2

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*



visitor said:


> Also- I am ASSUMING (and do please correct me if wrong!) That non branded (sterile, painted dial/etc) luminor cases will NOT be allowed to be shown, or talked about, due to the crown gaurd being protected, correct? Better enforce all the rules....


Don't be petty you guys. The original post means what it says, nothing more. If you want to ruin things completely, then yeah, keep harping on the crown guards too, I am sure admin will oblige you. :roll:


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## GuySie

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*



Craig M said:


> well I better change my signature haha!


I did that the moment I saw the Scooby-Doo joke ;-)


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## Craig M

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*

So I just looked up the term..."MM" and this is what wikipedia states:

_*"...... ........*_ (the _Italian Navy_) is one of the four branches of the military forces of Italy. It was formed in 1946, as the Navy of the Italian Republic, from what remained of the _Regia ......_ and now is considered among the five major navies in the world."

I am NOT talking about the watch...I am talking about the Navy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/......_........

So let me get this straight RICHemont Group...TRADEMARKED a BRANCH of the Italian navy?


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## Foxglove

edit: --too harsh--

~Ross


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## Craig M

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*



GuySie said:


> I did that the moment I saw the Scooby-Doo joke ;-)


I just changed mine to that too...it would be awesome if that became the new nickname...:-d


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## GuySie

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*



Craig M said:


> So let me get this straight RICHemont Group...TRADEMARKED a BRANCH of the Italian navy?


It's a bit more specific: they trademarked the use of their name for watches, and some other varieties of jewelry (see the Madrid TM for specifics).
I interned at a brandname creation company and learned a bit about the whole trademark process there, and I'm quite surprised that they managed to get this put through without the Italian TM offices slapping them down. I was taught that you can't trademark regular words to abuse a power position - I can't trademark 'post-office' and then sue you whenever you use it. As far as I can see, 'navy' in Italian is a regular word. But yeah, who's going to put up a fight against Richemont about it?
For some more amusement, you should check out an old thread about this whole situation on WUS. There's also the crown guard thing, which appears to be a creative loophole used to turn the patent for an original invention into a trademark after the patent expired, so they could keep protecting it.


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## Craig M

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*



GuySie said:


> It's a bit more specific: they trademarked the use of their name for watches, and some other varieties of jewelry (see the Madrid TM for specifics).
> I interned at a brandname creation company and learned a bit about the whole trademark process there, and I'm quite surprised that they managed to get this put through without the Italian TM offices slapping them down. I was taught that you can't trademark regular words to abuse a power position - I can't trademark 'post-office' and then sue you whenever you use it. As far as I can see, 'navy' in Italian is a regular word. But yeah, who's going to put up a fight against Richemont about it?
> For some more amusement, you should check out an old thread about this whole situation on WUS. There's also the crown guard thing, which appears to be a creative loophole used to turn the patent for an original invention into a trademark after the patent expired, so they could keep protecting it.


Interesting...thx!


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## SquishyPanda

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*

What about Scooby-Doos that have dial/hand combos that resemble nothing in Panerai's catalog? Like most of my "Air Scooby" projects with generic aviator dials.

What about my BR-0mages? Can we call them Barney Rubbles?

I'm going to :-!


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## porkdog324

I checked my sig and the MM words were taken out so I replaced the the dots with Scooby-doo too lol


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## KTMracer

Welp. I can't wait for my custom-built Scooby-Doo to come in. In the meantime, I'm thinking of how I want my new "M"ickey "M"ouse Power Reserve to be built.


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## Ernie Romers

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*

Thanks John. People need to understand that we have to and need to respect trademarks. I'll close this thread now, enough said.


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## zippofan

*Re: About ...... ........ posts*

Guys, to reiterate, pics of MM branded watches will be removed when found. Rather than go through the trouble of posting those pics and then having them removed, either alter them so the brand is removed from the picture or just describe it.

Don't post pics of MM branded watches, unless of course they are genuine Panerai's.

Thanks,
Zippofan
Affordables Forum Co-Moderator


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## Ernie Romers

A reminder bump.


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