# Unknowingly bought a fake Sinn U1.



## j3T_

I realize discussing fakes is not allowed here but I just had to get this of my chest. I won an ebay auction a week ago for a used Sinn U1. Ebay might be a bit iffy but as always, buy the seller, not the watch. Seller had 100% feedback, 559 transactions (he sold other Sinn's, Tag's etc. in the past according to his feedback).
The pictures were a bit blurry but alright, the feedback made me believe it would be genuine. 

Watch arrived this week and I noticed the lume on the dial was greenish and not the same white as the hands. I decided to remove my doubt and do some research. It appeared a few things were off such as the color of the steel, the numbers on the bezel are a different size, the clasp of the rubber strap had pins and not screws etc.
I felt quite dizzy after finding out about all the details that were off so only one thing left to see if it was a fake: removing the caseback. Opened it up and there it was, a gold plated clone ETA 2836... 100% fake Sinn.

I'm currently communicating with the seller. I'm not sure if he knew giving his history but he's currently demanding it to be checked by Sinn themselves before taking it back. It seems pointless to send it to Sinn to confirm something I already know. I was really looking forward to posting my Sinn in one of the threads here. Sorry for the long text but I had to tell someone, I don't buy watches in this price range every day


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## mpalmer

That really sucks. It's really bad luck, hopefully the seller does the right thing.


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## balzebub

That truly sucks..fake U1..scary man. Any kind of buyer's protection? Pay Pal? Credit Card company etc? 
Sending it back to SINN isn't feasible...wouldn't pictures of the movement be sufficient..


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## GDub

I am truly sorry that you had to experience this, but am glad you shared this experience with us. This is scary stuff as I have bought many watches from Ebay sellers. I will be even more cautious in my purchases. Hope this gets resolve soon.


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## pepperami

Oh my, feel your pain mate, if I were you I'd explore every avenue to get this resolved and I wouldn't be quick to believe the seller didn't know? you may need to play hard ball and put in a case with eBay and PayPal and sooner rather than later, hope you get it sorted :-/


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## j3T_

Unfortunately it didn't go through Paypal, he only accepted bank transfer. Which might not be all that bad as I have his account info including address. Currently the only answer I received was a stern "I don't agree" and just that.

This was the auction by the way: Sinn U1 SDR | eBay

I always thought I was quite good at spotting scams and in my 900+ transactions on ebay it has only happened once before. The watch is obviously used as well so it is doubtful he never noticed anything off about it. I'm not an expert when it comes to Sinn watches but it didn't take me very long.

Took a picture of the movement just now. I'm quite sure Sinn would just tell me what I already know. The movement is engraved with an ETA stamp and "2836-2 A5X". Not sure if it's a genuine ETA but either way it's not the right movement.


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## Kisara

Who is the ebay seller, where is he located? Also, were the photos in the auction of a genuine Sinn, or of the actual watch you received? 

I get suspicious of bank transfer requirements for online transactions, especially with people overseas.


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## j3T_

Well, I posted the link to the ebay auction in my reply above. Most information about him is in there. The pictures in the auction were of the watch that I received. Although I did notice the greenish lume in the pictures of the auction I assumed that perhaps it was recently charged. I'm in Belgium, the seller is in the Netherlands.

Not much to be suspicious of with a bank transfer since the fees with Paypal are huge. I can understand if a seller does not accept Paypal for that reason. There were 21 other bidders so I wasn't the only one that was fooled. But I was the sucker with the highest bid unfortunately.


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## BDIC

Man that sucks!!! That's why I almost always spend the money and buy them direct from an AD. I never trust EBay and never buy anything online unless I use a credit card or paypal. I'll walk away from anything that won't accept those two payments. Man I hope he or eBay does the right thing by you. 


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## Mike_Dowling

Don't let the seller demand anything, open a case with eBay, if the seller won't take it back or sets restrictions escalate to a claim. They will instruct you to send the watch back, once sent back you will get a refund. Whether he was in the dark or not isn't really your concern, you paid good money for a watch and were sent a fake, back it goes and it's the sellers problem to deal with it.

Actually I just read you used a bank wire, in that case I don't think you have much recourse unless the seller just takes it back and refunds you. There's nothing right about that movement and the auction has no boxes or paperwork, I agree it's a fake.


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## MarkingTime

There's been a lot of scams lately with buyers buying a genuine watch and then claiming it's fake after they get it. They'll send back the fake one and get their money back along with keeping the genuine watch. 

It may be one explanation why a seller with good feedback is being testy. Good luck!


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## j3T_

MarkingTime said:


> There's been a lot of scams lately with buyers buying a genuine watch and then claiming it's fake after they get it. They'll send back the fake one and get their money back along with keeping the genuine watch.
> 
> It may be one explanation why a seller with good feedback is being testy. Good luck!


I understand that but I personally have 924 feedbacks, 100% positive and I am not a professional seller. Most are purchases and some sales of used goods. I have been on ebay since 2006 with that very account. That should be an indication for him that I am not trying to scam him.


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## MarkingTime

I would agree. I hope you get your money back.


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## Streetboss

I see that you are located in Belgium. How much trouble would it be to send it to Sinn? Once they confirm your suspicions, it sounds like the seller will buy it back? I would take that all day long over just sitting there with what I believe to be a fake watch? Jmho.
Kevin


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## j3T_

Do I have any guarantee that he will buy it back? For all I know Sinn could confiscate it if I send it to them and then I have no proof. Will he repay my shipping costs of getting it back and forth? He gives very short answers and is not lenient at all. The last answer I received was a simple "I do not agree". If I have to guess he realized or realizes now that it's a replica watch, shoves the hot potato to me and plays dumb hoping I'll let it go.
I'm willing to take all the pictures of his watch that he desires. It's pretty easy to check against pictures of a genuine watch on the internet.

This is a genuine movement (the 2824, before they switched to the SW200): 









This is the inside of the U1 I received (2836 of unknown origin):


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## ipodlover77

j3t, Im sorry to hear about your terrible experience 

In your opinion is it a situation where the seller put a fake movement inside a genuine case or is everything about the watch fake? I know you said the lume was a bit fishy as well.


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## Mr_Pacman

I've got a U1 SDR (it's at home right now) but I don't really see anything about those ebay pictures that indicate it's a fake. If so, they have done a great job at knocking it off.

Did you watch come with any paperwork such as the little white warranty card?

I did notice that yours has the green viton o-ring.......are the fakes also coming with those?

What is the serial # on your case? Perhaps you can cross reference that number to see if it's a commonly used number on fake watches.

Is there a chance that Sinn uses various types of ETA movements in the U1's?

I have read about fake U1's, but didn't realize they were of such high quality. I'll compare mine with the pictures posted on the auction.


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## j3T_

It's a complete fake. The color of the case is off, the top marker on the bezel is completely flat (you should see some edges), numbers are bigger, very purple AR, lume is weak, clasp is not alligned and is pinned, not screwed. Also, I found online replica sellers and the watches on those websites have the exact same serial number as mine (1010.5248). This is a fake, absolutely no doubt about it.
I mainly checked the pictures in the auction for the condition it was in, not whether or not it was a fake. The sellers feedback gave me confidence it was genuine and I didn't research it any further.


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## ipodlover77

Woudn't a matching serial number as the fakes be sufficient enough proof for the seller?

I mean there should be no reason a unique serial number should be floating around on the web.

Or you could link him to the sites that show signs of what fakes are and then match them up with the watch he sent you.


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## rosborn

MarkingTime said:


> There's been a lot of scams lately with buyers buying a genuine watch and then claiming it's fake after they get it. They'll send back the fake one and get their money back along with keeping the genuine watch.
> 
> It may be one explanation why a seller with good feedback is being testy. Good luck!


There are a lot of scams out there. I recently landed on a forum based in Asia somewhere, where the participants were very excited about the fake Sinn U1s they had purchased saying that they looked incredibly like the original. Everything looked spot on, even the silicon straps and deployment clasps.


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## rosborn

Here are images of Sinn U1 in question:

The one the OP purchased:









One from the official Sinn website:









One from WatchBuys:









I don't know. I'm not trying to discount what the OP has asserted but the U1 he purchased looks like the one from the Sinn website and the WatchBuys website.

I have a UX, so not the same watch, but the deployment clasp on my Sinn silicon strap has pins, not screws. In fact, I have a couple of Sinn silicon straps with deployment clasps and they both have pins, not screws.


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## MarkingTime

There are differences. For one, the red block on the OP's minute hand doesn't cover the whole side as it should according to the official photos. Also, the white portion near the end of the seconds hand has a difference in the amount of white space.


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## rosborn

MarkingTime said:


> There are differences. For one, the red block on the OP's minute hand doesn't cover the whole side as it should according to the official photos. Also, the white portion near the end of the seconds hand has a difference in the amount of white space.


The red paint you're referring to, or lack thereof, on a portion of the minutes hand is a reflection. I rotated the original picture from the ebay ad to compare the dials alike. Here is a photo of the watch without the reflection on the minutes hand (just copied from the ebay ad):


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## MarkingTime

Gotcha. What about the difference in the amount of white space before the red block on the seconds hand?


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## rosborn

MarkingTime said:


> Gotcha. What about the difference in the amount of white space before the red block on the seconds hand?


I don't know why you're taking me to task. I don't own a U1, never have, and I didn't sell it to the OP. I was merely pointing out that, to my eye, the watches look very, very similar. The OP pointed out other inconsistencies (not the hand issues you noticed) that I just don't see. One of his gripes was the pins in the clasp, saying that they should be screws, and I pointed out that my Sinn silicon straps don't have screws but, rather, have pins. The OP said that the numbers on his bezel were clearly larger than a real U1. The photos do not prove that out. I don't see any differences in the case color and the OP did. He pointed out that the movements were/are clearly different but the photo of the "official" movement is somewhat fuzzy so that some portions of the two movements really can't be compared.

All I'm saying is that I would hesitate to say that the OP's U1 is a clear cut fake.


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## denmanproject

Look at the 5, 10 and 15 minute horizontal markers on the bezel of the U1 in question compared to the gen pics, pretty sloppy IMO


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## rosborn

denmanproject said:


> Look at the 5, 10 and 15 minute horizontal markers on the bezel of the U1 in question compared to the gen pics, pretty sloppy IMO


I agree with you there.

The more I look at the OP's watch the more I am reminded of the replicas, on the Asian forum, I referred to earlier.

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## MarkingTime

rosborn said:


> I don't know why you're taking me to task. I don't own a U1, never have, and I didn't sell it to the OP. I was merely pointing out that, to my eye, the watches look very, very similar. The OP pointed out other inconsistencies (not the hand issues you noticed) that I just don't see. One of his gripes was the pins in the clasp, saying that they should be screws, and I pointed out that my Sinn silicon straps don't have screws but, rather, have pins. The OP said that the numbers on his bezel were clearly larger than a real U1. The photos do not prove that out. I don't see any differences in the case color and the OP did. He pointed out that the movements were/are clearly different but the photo of the "official" movement is somewhat fuzzy so that some portions of the two movements really can't be compared.
> 
> All I'm saying is that I would hesitate to say that the OP's U1 is a clear cut fake.


Hey man, not taking you to task, I think you make some really good points. Just telling you my observations which you may or may not agree with. What happens when the fakes get so good that no one can tell them from the genuine article? Scary thought that!


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## rosborn

MarkingTime said:


> Hey man, not taking you to task, I think you make some really good points. Just telling you my observations which you may or may not agree with. What happens when the fakes get so good that no one can tell them from the genuine article? Scary thought that!


I agree. And, yes, it is a very scary thought.

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## rosborn

Here is a discussion of replica Sinn U1s. It's a bit dated but still relevant. And, another one.

Here's a thread on WUS.

I'm with you guys on this one. I feel really bad for the OP.


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## Jraul7

j3T_ said:


> It's a complete fake. The color of the case is off, the top marker on the bezel is completely flat (you should see some edges), numbers are bigger, very purple AR, lume is weak, clasp is not alligned and is pinned, not screwed. Also, I found online replica sellers and the watches on those websites have the exact same serial number as mine (1010.5248). This is a fake, absolutely no doubt about it.
> I mainly checked the pictures in the auction for the condition it was in, not whether or not it was a fake. The sellers feedback gave me confidence it was genuine and I didn't research it any further.


The purple AR and the greenish weak lume are classic giveaways of the fake U1's. I won't post links here, but use google and you can find a post on a Rep forum comparing a fake U1 with a real U1... very scary!

Sorry to hear about this bro. Try to open a case on eBay.


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## j3T_

Seller agreed to have it returned after I send him an email with most of the proof that I could gather, including a link to a website that sells replica's and has pictures of a Sinn with the exact same serial number as mine. It would really be a coincidence that I had the original on which the fakes were based. So it is currently on it's way back.

I do feel terrible for the seller if he was unaware. I hope he can contact the seller he purchased it from. It's rather scary. They always say "buy the seller, not the watch" but in this case it's most likely a good seller that was misled as well. There's no way to know then unless you have high resolution pictures of all sides of the watch and the movement.


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## gaopa

I am so glad that you will be able to return the watch to the seller. Sorry the watch was a fake and I hope you can get a genuine one as the U1 is my favorite Sinn. Cheers, Bill P.


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## Jcp311

This kind of stuff makes me sick to my stomach. Glad you got your refund!


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## sivart

Interesting thread that has a good ending. I wore my u1 today to honor.


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## apf65

It really sucks that these knockoffs are so good. Unless someone here has really good feedback, I suppose the only smart thing to do is take the $$$ hit and purchase from an AD. I'm currently in the market for a U1 or a Muhle Glashutte Rasmus and am coming to the realization that my piece of mind is going to be worth paying 500.00+ for. Glad it seems to be working out for the OP.


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## jdavis234

Glad to hear it's sorted out. Ebay is full of fakes, unfortunately. (Excuse me -- "replicas") The exterior quality is so similar that it fools buyers and sellers alike. Interior is often a different story; It would be interesting to see Sinn take one of these and apply its temp and pressure tests to it to see how quickly it fails!


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## apf65

Since this issue seems to be getting more rampant with each passing year, will Authorized Dealers, like WatchBuys here in the US, confirm a Sinn was sold from their location if the potential buyer supplied them the S/N? I did check their FAQ Section btw, with no results. Thanks


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## Franco333

Hello everyone I'm writing because I have been in market for a Sinn u1 and have been trying to get a deal on a used one for daily wear. I was on ebay and after doing some research found that the same individual in this thread is selling a sinn u1, he has none of the paper work and claims it was bought second hand. Thanks to this forum I will not be purchasing from him. It appears that this guy might be a scammer although I am uncertain. Cheers and thanks again for the heads up!

-Franco


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## j3T_

Franco333 said:


> Hello everyone I'm writing because I have been in market for a Sinn u1 and have been trying to get a deal on a used one for daily wear. I was on ebay and after doing some research found that the same individual in this thread is selling a sinn u1, he has none of the paper work and claims it was bought second hand. Thanks to this forum I will not be purchasing from him. It appears that this guy might be a scammer although I am uncertain. Cheers and thanks again for the heads up!
> 
> -Franco


I looked it up and I believe this one to be gen. It's a different watch. Comes with bracelet and box, mine did not. Lume on the markers seems to be like the genuine watch, it's an easy tell if you have decent pictures. The reps have rather greenish markers. If you really want to be certain, ask for the serial number. All reps have the same number.

I don't believe he's a scammer when I look at his sales history. He was correct with me and refunded me after I provided enough proof that the one I received was a fake.


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## Jraul7

j3T_ said:


> I looked it up and I believe this one to be gen. It's a different watch. Comes with bracelet and box, mine did not. Lume on the markers seems to be like the genuine watch, it's an easy tell if you have decent pictures. The reps have rather greenish markers. If you really want to be certain, ask for the serial number. All reps have the same number.
> 
> I don't believe he's a scammer when I look at his sales history. He was correct with me and refunded me after I provided enough proof that the one I received was a fake.


Ask for the serial number and contact Sinn or Watch Buys to confirm. Have a friend who bought a used one the other day and Watch Buys confirmed it was authentic.


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## freeman4ever

This auction, for a limited edition Solebox U2 was reported, and finally taken down. It was clearly a knockoff as there was virtually no description. Prior to being taken down, the bids were off the chain (and climbing) for this ~$200 knock off...


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## Kisara

A seller with only 1 feedback transaction.


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## fish70

Kisara said:


> A seller with only 1 feedback transaction.


Buy the seller!


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## j3T_

Let's not revive a thread after 5 years, shall we?


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## ndrs63

I had a similar experience on Chrono24. Bought the seller that had hundreds of positive reviews, and even more on ebay. It was a Panerai 111, and sure enough, I did my homework and found out it was fake. Luckily I was covered. I was refunded near instantly.
My only advise is to never ever do direct payment. Even if one has to suck up the 3% PayPal/credit card fees


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## Geof3

Wow... serious zombie thread!!!


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## CMSgt Bo

Just let it die folks...let it die.


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