# Can you recoment a budget alternative to Bergeon watch tools



## marcone (Nov 2, 2008)

I am looking for a decent set of tools to get me started in watch findling.
Don't thing of any highlevel work, just some watch regulating, dissasembly of broken down watches, this sort of things.
Having this in mind I need a case opener, watch holder, screwdriver set and I am looking for some good quality kit without having to break the bank. 
Now everyone talks about Bergeon being of top knotch quality and I am asking what can you recomend for a brand having slmost the same quality but also being more conservative regarding pricing. At this time I have no intention of paying 100 euros for a case opener from Bergeon for instance. But in the same time I also don't see myseft buying disposable tools just to end up with a busted tool and a scratched caseback.
I have come accros this german site: http://www.watch-tool.de/shop.php
which seems to have a very vast offering and I am asking of you to share your thought on the various brands of tools presented here.

Thanks,
Marcone


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

Check out used tools.

Depending on the tool needed, some Indian tools are acceptable. For example, a 10 dollar case vise (the thing with four nylon posts in aluminum blocks) will work as well as a Bergeon one. Other tools, like tweezers and screwdrivers should be of the best quality you can afford.

A*F makes excellent stuff, often overlooked.

Anchor is an Indian brand, they make reasonably good non-precision tools, (blowers, oilers, oil cups, etc.


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## dsutton24 (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree with lysanderxiii about the A*F screwdrivers; they're good screwdrivers for the money. I've got Bergeon screwdrivers as well, but use the A*Fs 90+ percent of the time ('why' is a long story... let me know if you want the bloody details )

You'll also need a stone to keep the tips dressed. An Arkansas stone works fine. It doesn't need to be very large, and can be bought cheaply almost anywhere you can buy pocketknives.

There's a fellow I know who is just getting started, and he bought an LG case opener. I've actually had my hands on it and it is a very good, economical alternative to the Jaxa or Bergeon (it was around $50.00). I know a lot of people are perfectly satisfied with the cheapie imports, but in my humble yet rambling opinion a good case back wrench is worth being a little snobbish about... I've seen so many scratched casebacks...

On the same subject... The cheapie case back wrenches can often be vastly improved by stoning the pins so that they are square and flat. The other big failing is that once they are tightened into the notches in the caseback, the pins can move as you apply torque and pop out of the notches. Some are pretty good, others are awful. Unfortuntely the only way to find out is to try them out. Screwdown casebacks can really be a challenge to open sometimes, and it's really not worth making a tough job that much harder by trying to save twenty or thirty dollars.

A pair of good tweezers is also a worthwhile purchase. Consider a pair that is around 6" long, with bent tips. The only good ones I know of are Dumont, and they can be pricey. If anyone knows of a decent mid-priced alternative, I'd like to hear about them too.

I wouldn't worry about buying the inexpensive spring bar tools, or bracelet tools. They seem to work fine, and the downside to having something break isn't huge. 

You probably already know this, but I always try to convince people not to tinker with their collections or their daily wear watches. Go to a thrift store or a pawn shop and buy a bag full of junkers to experiment on. Also ask around at jewelry shops, they often have decent watches that can be had cheaply from unclaimed repairs, etc. You will damage things early on, everyone does. That's a lot easier to take when it's a Timex that you paid a dollar for, and not your Grandpa's railroad watch.

Enjoy!


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## V8 (Oct 7, 2006)

Horotec makes some reasonably priced tools as well. Some stuff doesn't need to be top notch, I have a $12.00 A*F case back opener that works great. Thing is, there is some trial and error before you know what tools to go quality on.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

Tweezers - Page 298 of Jules Borels Jewelry tools catalog ("Tools" on their products page.) has some fairly nice economy priced stainless, anti magnetic, tweezers. The points may need to be sharpened with a piece of sand paper and then pinch the paper between the tips while gently squeezing them to ensure a parallel grip, but they are good for starters.

The Indian Tweezers sold by Otto Frei aren't bad either, at least the No. 3C I bought from them compares well with the Swiss ones, I still use them.

Just remember, anti-magnetic tweezers are not as hard as the magnetic type, and even the expensive ones can be bent up.

In reality, No. 2 and No.3C are the primary tweezers you need, maybe a Brass OO.


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## SteveDodds (Sep 8, 2008)

I bought everything but my screwdrivers and my caseback tools at www.widgetsupply.com. I am very happy with the tweezers. I dont have any experience with any others so I have nothing to compare it to.

One of the tweezers I got was this one http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/tweezer-non-magnetic/BEO02

The other one was this one http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/tweezer-non-magnetic/BEP41

I also got my dustblower, watch hand setting punch, watch crystal polish, and a cheap loupe so I can have one with me at all times and not worry if I lose it, from this same place

I was so happy with the curved set of tweezers that I put a customer review comment on their page.


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## marcone (Nov 2, 2008)

Thank you very much for the advices, they are really usefull in my case.
Unfortunately me living on the other side of the pond (Romania), I'm limited to store offering from Europe as I see not many online stores are willing to ship outside of the US.
Now, I want to ask you has anyone had the chance to use Beco tools?
I have searched the forum and it seems they are more known for producing good quality watchwinders so I'm wondering if their tools are also good for the job.


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## dsutton24 (Nov 29, 2008)

SteveDodds;

I appreciate the WidgetSupply tip. I ordered an assortment of tweezers from them, and will post some feedback on them once I've played with them some. 

You know what to expect from Bergeon, Grobet, and DuMont, but it's too bad there isn't a place to go for advice on student / hobbyist grade tools. There's a lot of cheap junk out there, and a few professional grade (expensive) tools, but there are very few choices in the moderately priced, decent quality tools. Tips like this are well worth exploring


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## marcone (Nov 2, 2008)

Hey guess what I found what I was looking for: http://www.watchtool.co.uk/ UK site with a huge selection I would say of watch tools the vast majority I can't even understand what they are good for. I am very pleased also with the prices and also shipping and handling fees.

This is what i ordered:
1 x Bergeon 6767-F Spring Bar Tool 
1 x A&F Swiss Bracelet Pin Remover 
1 x A&F Swiss Made 9 Piece Srewdriver Set Carousel 
1 x Bergeon 2819-4 Case back Jaxa Watch Tool

I went with both Bergeon and A*F because of your recommendations, now I can't wait for them to arrive


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## SteveDodds (Sep 8, 2008)

dsutton24 said:


> SteveDodds;
> 
> I appreciate the WidgetSupply tip. I ordered an assortment of tweezers from them, and will post some feedback on them once I've played with them some.
> 
> You know what to expect from Bergeon, Grobet, and DuMont, but it's too bad there isn't a place to go for advice on student / hobbyist grade tools. There's a lot of cheap junk out there, and a few professional grade (expensive) tools, but there are very few choices in the moderately priced, decent quality tools. Tips like this are well worth exploring


Have you received your tweezers yet? What do you think of them?


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## Docrwm (Feb 10, 2006)

I've bought from Widget as well and have to say that I got some great deals on mismarked optics from them, including one with its own LED light that is pretty useful. The tools were less impressive and the cheap screwdrivers were worthless. My conclusion from my foray into all this is that it pays to invest in metal tools that are going to come into contact with expensive items that you do not want to slip and gouge. My 2 cents.


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## TicTocTach (Nov 18, 2008)

How cheap is too cheap? I'm working my way up to looking at higher-end drivers, but the $16 10-pc set at Widgetsupply (PN SAC2-PS509) looks decent. Certainly a lot better than what I have now. The trouble I'm having is finding other sets with drivers in the 0.5-0.6mm range. There just doesn't seem to be much out there between this and the $100 9-pc set of Bergeons. Ow. I believe in having the right tools for the job, but yowza, I can fill out a large portion of my watch destruction tool kit for the cost of those drivers.

Clair


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## skoochy (Jan 6, 2009)

nt


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## Docrwm (Feb 10, 2006)

TicTocTach said:


> How cheap is too cheap? I'm working my way up to looking at higher-end drivers, but the $16 10-pc set at Widgetsupply (PN SAC2-PS509) looks decent. Certainly a lot better than what I have now. The trouble I'm having is finding other sets with drivers in the 0.5-0.6mm range. There just doesn't seem to be much out there between this and the $100 9-pc set of Bergeons. Ow. I believe in having the right tools for the job, but yowza, I can fill out a large portion of my watch destruction tool kit for the cost of those drivers.
> 
> Clair


Clair,

If you are talking about the ones I think you are - don't bother. The tips are all bent, the turning tops are on at an angle, etc. Worst choice I've made in tools - ever.


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## TicTocTach (Nov 18, 2008)

oH... Well, I guess I've got another set of beater screw drivers for the utility drawer then. I'll pick up the AF's from Ofrei's when I buy the lume and other little odds and ends I need for this project. I hope the pile of tweezers, pair of pin vices, and drill assortment I also ordered are decent quality... :roll:

Clair


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## Docrwm (Feb 10, 2006)

TicTocTach said:


> oH... Well, I guess I've got another set of beater screw drivers for the utility drawer then. I'll pick up the AF's from Ofrei's when I buy the lume and other little odds and ends I need for this project. I hope the pile of tweezers, pair of pin vices, and drill assortment I also ordered are decent quality... :roll:
> 
> Clair


I bought a 6-pack of tweezers from them that were fine, use them regularly. The optics I purchased were seconds because they were imprinted with the wrong information about the magnification (they are actually better than what is printed on them) and cost me next to nothing. Its just those screwdrivers that were a complete waste. I hope that they have changed, upped the QC, whatever and yours are keepers. Good luck.


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## TicTocTach (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, my goodies shipped today so I'll give them a good once-over when they get in, with a review here shortly thereafter. I'll have to do a little work to find something to serve as a meaningful test, though.

Clair


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## TicTocTach (Nov 18, 2008)

OK, 3 weeks later an update. The tools came in a few days after my last post, so here's a mini-review of the goods you can get from Widget...








- The needle files appear to be decent quality and cut pretty quickly.
- The lighted jeweler's loupe (10x) is so-so, and the switch button for the light immediately broke. An easy fix, and hasn't been a problem as long as I push the button with something smaller than my finger, but annoying.
- All of the tweezers ("China made to Swiss specs") are nice. I don't have a basis for comparison, so they're probably the best I've personally ever used.
- Pin vices seem to be OK, and the drills work well.
- Hammer is so-so, the face is not finished very well at all. Should clean up OK.
- Hand remover looks to be made well, but I need to practice using it before I am comfortable with it.

Not shown are the screw drivers. They are, by far, the worst tool purchase I've ever made. They were delivered with extra tips, but not as many extras as drivers. One of the drivers came with a tip that had no blade ground on to it... just round stock. At least it was only $15, but it was still about 25% of the whole purchase. I'll be getting some ACTUAL good drivers in the next week or two.

So there you go, some good some bad. Put your $15 towards a better set of drivers...

Clair


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## Genway (Feb 12, 2009)

Okay, I am going to share a secret with you guys, but I don't know any supply still selling it. The screwdriver set by Armway brand is actually identical to BergXXX brand, I talk to the manager in the manufacture, he said the production is in fact selling as Swiss Made by a number one watch tools company, they just OEM company. Look at their website www.powermost.com, and search armway screwdriver set.
I bought three set of 9 pieces screwdrivers from Cas-Ker 4 years ago for $45.00 each, the quality is identical to number brand, the stand is better then.


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## Docrwm (Feb 10, 2006)

TicTocTach said:


> OK, 3 weeks later an update. The tools came in a few days after my last post, so here's a mini-review of the goods you can get from Widget...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad most of the kit was good. My lighted mag is on its third set of batteries without a problem - sorry that yours had a glitch right out of the box. Have you purchased an alternative set of drivers?


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## TicTocTach (Nov 18, 2008)

Haven't yet, I haven't really had any time to tinker much, and I'm not sure what else I want to get that I might need. Still mostly in research mode at this point, and it sure would be nice to put my hands on the parts before I pulled the trigger again.

Clair


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## foxint (Dec 26, 2008)

Guys,

Horotec and A*F are top for the money. Or for the screw drivers get 2 sets of the Indians - one for just hack work - second replace wiht A8F or Bergon (sic) blades and you have a economy screw driver wiht a great edge.

One think missing a good case wrench - LG openall WITHOUT the Rolex attachment. The Rolex attachment is rubbish you can only make 1/2 turns. I had one and sold it and now I have a Tianjin (i.e. SeaGull) opener for every thing. Still LG is tops I have 2 about uSD65.00 and forget teh jaxa they are not good.

Alos look second hand. Some tool you need the best, some you can get away with less.

Dan


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## BullDawg (May 18, 2008)

About 2/3 of my tools are Moon. They are not bad. I like the Moon tweezers. I got eight tweezers for the half the price of one Bergeon. For Christmas I was given the basic tool kit from TZ and must say the Bergeon are nicer. 16 times nicer - maybe not.

Ofrei has a 4x and 10x B&L loupe for $12 each (don't go cheep with your vision) the wire loupe holder is worth it.

If you are looking for any pliers, EuroTool is one of the best. Funny but there are jewelry makers than make Chain Maille. http://urbanmaille.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=6 These at $8 are 1/2 off the normal price.

The Moon case holder is OK but too small; the movement holder is better buy not great. Pins fall out but grease helps hold them in better

Moon Screwdrivers are OK - they pivot but do not have ball bearings. The Bergeon blades fit perfectly in the Moon handles. I use the screwdrivers a little here and there. I wish I bought the A-F as I was told but was in the watchmaker supply store and his A-F were pricy.

The Moon case opener really SUX! The bits are always falling out. I put a litter grease and it helps for a few weeks. My next buy will be a A-F case opener.

Bulldawg


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## Peter08 (Nov 19, 2007)

marcone said:


> I have come accross this german site: watchmakertool.de
> which seems to have a very vast offering and I am asking of you to share your thought on the various brands of tools presented here.
> 
> The mentioned Website (having asked to set a new password, it seems, that my post-counter has been 0zeroed!) is better to avoid:
> ...


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## pithy (Aug 22, 2010)

https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/supplies-4280090.html


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## Stuey63 (Sep 25, 2017)

I see a poster above some time ago asked about 'Beco' screwdrivers but no-one answered, so I will for the sake of assisting future searches.

They are very good. Mine are called Beco Technic and are excellently made with very good blades.


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