# What happened to Glycine?



## Justsumguy

Over the years I have owned several glycine watches. Among them an Incursore and a Combat Sub. I ultimately flipped both. Nevertheless, I have always liked the brand, and I have defended it against recent attacks made simply because Glycine was recently acquired by Invicta. Having said that, one would be a fool not to notice that Glycine watches that once sold for hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, are now on the bargain list on eBay and Costco. What has really happened to cause the unprecedented price drop of Glycine watches? Although the Invicta acquisition seems much talked about on watch forums, I don't fail to recognize that the number of people on these forums pales in comparison to the real watch buying public who do not even know these forums exist. So, what really happened to Glycine? Why is a Combat Sub that a few years ago sold for about 1K USD now selling for $250 at a big box warehouse store? What's the Scoop?


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## algoth

https://www.watchuseek.com/f18/glycine-dead-brand-please-help-me-understand-4871405.html


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## Justsumguy

algoth said:


> https://www.watchuseek.com/f18/glycine-dead-brand-please-help-me-understand-4871405.html


I read that thread. Not a single relevant answer. No help. Thanks.


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## hedd

Justsumguy said:


> I read that thread. Not a single relevant answer. No help. Thanks.


I agree that the speculation and misinformation in these threads is pretty useless. I'll give some anyway. My understanding of the situation is:

* Glycine decided to sell for all of the reasons that aging, shrinking companies sell.
* Invicta wants to play in the $500-$1000 market segment and compete with swatch/hamilton
* Invicta helps glycine with marketing strategy, pricing, general corporate strategy. This includes viral and agressive pricing strategies in the US and rebranding to reach a younger audience. 
* Invicta offers cheaper bulk parts purchasing and manufacturing to achieve the right price point

Who knows what phase 2 of the strategy is? I think they will try to stabilize prices a bit higher than they are at the moment, but they really want to increase volume.


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## PetrosD

hedd said:


> I agree that the speculation and misinformation in these threads is pretty useless. I'll give some anyway. My understanding of the situation is:
> 
> * Glycine decided to sell for all of the reasons that aging, shrinking companies sell.
> * Invicta wants to play in the $500-$1000 market segment and compete with swatch/hamilton
> * Invicta helps glycine with marketing strategy, pricing, general corporate strategy. This includes viral and agressive pricing strategies in the US and rebranding to reach a younger audience.
> * Invicta offers cheaper bulk parts purchasing and manufacturing to achieve the right price point
> 
> Who knows what phase 2 of the strategy is? I think they will try to stabilize prices a bit higher than they are at the moment, but they really want to increase volume.


While none of us will know for sure since we are not in the know and can only speculate, I think this is very likely an accurate summary of the reasons.


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## serge70

I'm sure that they were really getting squeezed out of business due to lots of factors including pricing & brand awareness & Invicta turned up with a nice bag full of cash.


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## Kmcmichael

I cannot add anything other than the Airman I recently purchased because of the new prices will make a great travel watch. I have the 44mm. It is much Easier to read than the Citizen Nighthawk I have been using., is thinner than my Omega co-axial GMT and at the new prices you don't feel worried about going to some places with it. I have purchased a shark mesh band to wear in the hotter climes.


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## Spirit of the Watch

hedd said:


> I agree that the speculation and misinformation in these threads is pretty useless. I'll give some anyway. My understanding of the situation is:
> 
> * Glycine decided to sell for all of the reasons that aging, shrinking companies sell.
> * Invicta wants to play in the $500-$1000 market segment and compete with swatch/hamilton
> * Invicta helps glycine with marketing strategy, pricing, general corporate strategy. This includes viral and agressive pricing strategies in the US and rebranding to reach a younger audience.
> * Invicta offers cheaper bulk parts purchasing and manufacturing to achieve the right price point
> 
> Who knows what phase 2 of the strategy is? I think they will try to stabilize prices a bit higher than they are at the moment, but *they really want to increase volume.*


Rec, +1.

Right now, Glycine values volume over selling less watches at a higher price. It's the reason prices haven't increased since 2 years ago AND they're using cheaper parts (Sellita).

Hopefully, things work out.


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## yankeexpress

The SCOOP is.....the prices were too high.



If the product doesn't sell, the price is too high. Glycine-Direct is a good seller at a fair price.

Think the low prices are fantastic and in line with the actual value of the watches. Never had a Glycine until recently and now have several now that they are affordable.


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## serge70

yankeexpress said:


> The SCOOP is.....the prices were too high.
> 
> 
> 
> If the product doesn't sell, the price is too high. Glycine-Direct is a good seller at a fair price.
> 
> Think the low prices are fantastic and in line with the actual value of the watches. Never had a Glycine until recently and now have several now that they are affordable.


Yes,this.


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## ladida

yankeexpress said:


> The SCOOP is.....the prices were too high.
> 
> Think the low prices are fantastic and in line with the actual value of the watches.


I agree. Very happy with my DC-4 at the reduced price, it's a pretty watch and great value. At the original RRP: not so much.


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## hedd

I'm of the opinion that no watch should cost more than parts + $100 for assembly + $20 for QC + 10%-20% profit. 

stainless steel watches with prefab movements that cost more than $1000 are BS

its not like innovations are being made. It's not like people are hand crafting anything or "watchmaking." They aren't even aligning the hands or regulating.


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## nfetterly

Mentions of Glycine-Direct, but nothing relevant comes up on a google search. Can someone PM me the link?

Turned off by Invicta watches - seeing a +80% markdown from MSRP at Costco on Invicta watches means MSRP is meaningless.


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## Justsumguy

yankeexpress said:


> The SCOOP is.....the prices were too high.
> 
> 
> 
> If the product doesn't sell, the price is too high. Glycine-Direct is a good seller at a fair price.
> 
> Think the low prices are fantastic and in line with the actual value of the watches. Never had a Glycine until recently and now have several now that they are affordable.


Well, a little research indicates that there seems to be some buzz about the fact that Glycine has gone to cheaper parts and there are mounting complaints about defects. Glycine is addressing the issues quickly with a no hassle return policy, but the problems may still be there. Years ago, Glycine offered very high quality, but it was a brand only known by watch geeks. Today, Glycine appears to be going for low end recognition and high volume sales, but it may be sacrificing the quality that gave it a cult following, which now appears to be gone. It does sound like a choice introduced by Invicta. I expect that soon Glycine will appear on QVC. This is neither good nor bad, it is a choice about who they want to be.


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## Mouse_at_Large

hedd said:


> I'm of the opinion that no watch should cost more than parts + $100 for assembly + $20 for QC + 10%-20% profit.
> 
> stainless steel watches with prefab movements that cost more than $1000 are BS
> 
> its not like innovations are being made. It's not like people are hand crafting anything or "watchmaking." They aren't even aligning the hands or regulating.


I look forward with interest to the time when you start your own microbrand with this philosophy. I predict it will have a long and successful life and will, in short order, become an all-consuming behemoth that will sweep away and/or gobble up all its competitors.

Or maybe not.......


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## hedd

Mouse_at_Large said:


> I look forward with interest to the time when you start your own microbrand with this philosophy. I predict it will have a long and successful life and will, in short order, become an all-consuming behemoth that will sweep away and/or gobble up all its competitors.
> 
> Or maybe not.......


I think halios is a good example of what that should look like. Admittedly they have some GMT models that are slightly over $1000, but many that are not.


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## cuthbert

Justsumguy said:


> Well, a little research indicates that there seems to be some buzz about the fact that Glycine has gone to cheaper parts and there are mounting complaints about defects. Glycine is addressing the issues quickly with a no hassle return policy, but the problems may still be there. Years ago, Glycine offered very high quality, but it was a brand only known by watch geeks. Today, Glycine appears to be going for low end recognition and high volume sales, but it may be sacrificing the quality that gave it a cult following, which now appears to be gone. It does sound like a choice introduced by Invicta. I expect that soon Glycine will appear on QVC. This is neither good nor bad, it is a choice about who they want to be.


I just received my No.1, and I recognise it's a high quality Swiss watch, better finish than an Hamilton of the same price I would say. Generally speaking the owners report a quality equal to the previous pre-Invicta release.

Another example of internet rumour started by video bloggers perhaps?


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## yankeexpress

nfetterly said:


> Mentions of Glycine-Direct, but nothing relevant comes up on a google search. Can someone PM me the link?
> 
> Turned off by Invicta watches - seeing a +80% markdown from MSRP at Costco on Invicta watches means MSRP is meaningless.


PM sent

MSRP is meaningless in most Swiss brands too.


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## dan360

This is like the fifth person to ask these same style questions in this forum. All with the same narrative--previous owner, love(d) the brand, "sad to see it go downhill", Invicta, problems, quality issues, brand equity destruction, etc. QVC happens to be the latest thing I've seen parroted around here because Invicta has a QVC store. So freakin' what? The watches are selling for a great price, are good value for the money, easy to work on, fit nice, look nice, wear nice, and sum themselves up to a overall good experience.

It's also quite funny that you reference how such a small percentage of people are aware of the brand like it's a bad thing, but then reference such a small percentage of THAT small percentage having a small percentage of issues with their lowest end models, like it's a horrible sign of complete and total brand quality falling into the abyss. 

Very rarely if ever do these particular type of "worrisome" posters reference how the U.S. ADs have clearanced out stock, nor how the European ADs and overall European market aren't seeing the same kind of sale prices. Pre-internet, this type of market flooding happened all the time with various brands of various products. Interwebs, trolls, shills, marketeers, ulterior motive-based "review" and shady people like half of YouTube's watch "experts" existed back in the day, but their influence was regional at best. Now, any idiot with a camera and internet connection can become the latest expert on whatever they choose with an instant exposure to billions of people. 

Good try, shill. C- for effort. Come back next week with more on the how Sellita sucks compared to ETA narrative, and bring pictures. I'm so tired of these trolls not having good pictures. I like pictures.


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## hedd

dan360 said:


> This is like the fifth person to ask these same style questions in this forum. All with the same narrative--previous owner, love(d) the brand, "sad to see it go downhill", Invicta, problems, quality issues, brand equity destruction, etc. QVC happens to be the latest thing I've seen parroted around here because Invicta has a QVC store. So freakin' what? The watches are selling for a great price, are good value for the money, easy to work on, fit nice, look nice, wear nice, and sum themselves up to a overall good experience.
> 
> It's also quite funny that you reference how such a small percentage of people are aware of the brand like it's a bad thing, but then reference such a small percentage of THAT small percentage having a small percentage of issues with their lowest end models, like it's a horrible sign of complete and total brand quality falling into the abyss.
> 
> Very rarely if ever do these particular type of "worrisome" posters reference how the U.S. ADs have clearanced out stock, nor how the European ADs and overall European market aren't seeing the same kind of sale prices. Pre-internet, this type of market flooding happened all the time with various brands of various products. Interwebs, trolls, shills, marketeers, ulterior motive-based "review" and shady people like half of YouTube's watch "experts" existed back in the day, but their influence was regional at best. Now, any idiot with a camera and internet connection can become the latest expert on whatever they choose with an instant exposure to billions of people.
> 
> Good try, shill. C- for effort. Come back next week with more on the how Sellita sucks compared to ETA narrative, and bring pictures. I'm so tired of these trolls not having good pictures. I like pictures.


Trolls trashing the post acquisition brand may sound unhinged, but so does this zealotry. It's willful ignorance.

Of course there are minor changes that may or may not affect your personal purchasing decision. Have you tried using the consolidated invicta service department yet?


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## cuthbert

dan360 said:


> This is like the fifth person to ask these same style questions in this forum. All with the same narrative--previous owner, love(d) the brand, "sad to see it go downhill", Invicta, problems, quality issues, brand equity destruction, etc. QVC happens to be the latest thing I've seen parroted around here because Invicta has a QVC store. So freakin' what? The watches are selling for a great price, are good value for the money, easy to work on, fit nice, look nice, wear nice, and sum themselves up to a overall good experience.
> 
> It's also quite funny that you reference how such a small percentage of people are aware of the brand like it's a bad thing, but then reference such a small percentage of THAT small percentage having a small percentage of issues with their lowest end models, like it's a horrible sign of complete and total brand quality falling into the abyss.
> 
> Very rarely if ever do these particular type of "worrisome" posters reference how the U.S. ADs have clearanced out stock, nor how the European ADs and overall European market aren't seeing the same kind of sale prices. Pre-internet, this type of market flooding happened all the time with various brands of various products. Interwebs, trolls, shills, marketeers, ulterior motive-based "review" and shady people like half of YouTube's watch "experts" existed back in the day, but their influence was regional at best. Now, any idiot with a camera and internet connection can become the latest expert on whatever they choose with an instant exposure to billions of people.
> 
> Good try, shill. C- for effort. Come back next week with more on the how Sellita sucks compared to ETA narrative, and bring pictures. I'm so tired of these trolls not having good pictures. I like pictures.


I would be inclined to agree: there are a lot of people on the internet making up stuff: Squales made in China, millions of Seikos with QC issues, how it's the turn of "made in Invicta" Glycines.

Let's be honest: in the thread about the second run of the Airman number 1 a lot of people noticed the new cases are more alike the original ones, the story about Sellitas is sketchy too, if you notice in few threads you find some users who complain about the "resale value" of the watches, it makes me think they are people who had bought old Glycine as "investment" and now their plan to resale them making a profit in blowing out.

...same thing for Omega, a lot of people complain about the same thing, those are more like merchants than passionate fans.


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## ohhenry1

The problem with a narrative isn't, in the first instance, whether it is right or wrong. It's that it can so easily influence our perceptions, making us see what we want or expect to see.

Slap a fancy French label on a bottle of two Chuck and charge $100 for it, and people will convince themselves that it tastes better than the exact same wine in a lesser bottle.

Glycine these days has gone down in price (at least in the US market, possibly not elsewhere), and it is now owned by a maligned company, so it must be crap now, right?

Maybe, maybe not. Without enough data, which I would humbly submit none of us really have, it'd be an entirely too tempting and easy story to tell ourselves. For that reason, in the absence of really compelling evidence, I'd resist it.


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## The Loco

I had an Invicta diver and sincerely was blown away by the quality vs price relation. It was around $75 and everything was good, even the Miyota movement had hacking and hand winding and was very accurate too. The watch was stolen from me, and I bought a Steinhard Ocean 1 GMT Ceramic as replacement, sure it was slightly better but the price was also 5-6 times more.

Watch snobs dislike Invicta, but it's definitely a good watch for the money imo.

Abouts Glycine, I was to buy an Airman 42 GMT but it was just too expensive. You could get an automatic chronograph from Tissot, maybe Hamilton. At $450, it was a no brainer for me. A part from standard Airman and GMT features, it's also full lume dial, PVD case and buckle, good quality NATO strap and smoked back crystal.

Quality seems excellent. The printings on deal are all very sharp, the date window is well centered, it changes the date instantly and right exactly at midnight, the case has excellent finishing too.

And there are many more really good Airman designs, the DC-4 that someone mentioned, the base 22, the stealth and others.

I think the "Golden Eye" Combat Sub is definitely a great diver.


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## Sugman

I don't know anything about the business of selling watches, but I'm not convinced that a brand choosing to use a Sellita movement is such a bad thing. People seem to like the Oris Aquis pretty well. (The Oris Aquis Date Relief is actually featured on today's opening page of the WUS website.) My new Combat Sub gains right at 2 seconds per day when being worn....not bad for a watch that was less than $400. I'd rather have a Sellita movement that runs +2 per day than an ETA that runs less accurately. But that's just me. Others may agree or disagree, and that's okay.


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## hedd

I was just looking at my post Invicta Airman 18 and Combat Chrono and they are both so beautiful. I can't wait to get a cream colored airman 1.

I just wanted to add that to the thread to counteract any negativity that was happening.


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## underpar

Mouse_at_Large said:


> I look forward with interest to the time when you start your own microbrand with this philosophy. I predict it will have a long and successful life and will, in short order, become an all-consuming behemoth that will sweep away and/or gobble up all its competitors.
> 
> Or maybe not.......


Hahaha, right? This individual has clearly never run a business. Show me anyone in business running on 10-20% margins. For that matter, show me a solvent business running on 50% margins.


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## hedd

underpar said:


> Hahaha, right? This individual has clearly never run a business. Show me anyone in business running on 10-20% margins. For that matter, show me a solvent business running on 50% margins.


You think a $500 airman 1 has 50% margins?


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## yankeexpress

hedd said:


> You think a $500 airman 1 has 50% margins?


At least, prolly closer to 100%


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## hedd

after sellita takes their chunk and fabrication and marketing, warrantee repairs?


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## dan360

underpar said:


> Hahaha, right? This individual has clearly never run a business. Show me anyone in business running on 10-20% margins. For that matter, show me a solvent business running on 50% margins.


Wal-Mart historically runs on ~2-3%. 10-20% is very common. 50% is a license to print money.


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## yankeexpress

dan360 said:


> Wal-Mart historically runs on ~2-3%. 10-20% is very common. 50% is a license to print money.


Precisely


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## Ra-Horakhty

I’m unsure, but I suspect they (Invicta) has chosen liquidate old stock by dumping on the grey market. The ebay sellers as well as Ashford (I prefer them over the eBay plus even more discounted) have them priced in the range of other entry level Swiss brands. I just ordered a combat sub with blue bezel, black dial for less than a Hamilton khaki auto 38mm on bracelet. 

The only criticism I have with the brand is that there is no clear reason for some combat subs having drilled lugs while others don’t. I don’t think I’ll mind the non-ETA movement but None of my ETAs from other brands have had any issues so far. 


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## hedd

Ra-Horakhty said:


> I'm unsure, but I suspect they (Invicta) has chosen liquidate old stock by dumping on the grey market. The ebay sellers as well as Ashford (I prefer them over the eBay plus even more discounted) have them priced in the range of other entry level Swiss brands. I just ordered a combat sub with blue bezel, black dial for less than a Hamilton khaki auto 38mm on bracelet.
> 
> The only criticism I have with the brand is that there is no clear reason for some combat subs having drilled lugs while others don't. I don't think I'll mind the non-ETA movement but None of my ETAs from other brands have had any issues so far.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It would be weird if that were true. They created a new limited edition watch (the airman 1 or the 1953SE), and put it on ebay for that price in the first month of it's existence. Also, I don't the ebay stores are considered grey market. They are stamped with the same AD as other US outlets.

Pretty much any watch with drilled lugs is old stock as far as I know. They aren't drilling lugs anymore (except maybe the DC-4?).

It seems like they might be taking feedback and returning to the old logo and drilled lugs.


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## Spirit of the Watch

hedd said:


> It would be weird if that were true. They created a new limited edition watch (the airman 1 or the 1953SE), and put it on ebay for that price in the first month of it's existence. Also, I don't they the ebay stores are considered grey market. They are stamped with the same AD as other US outlets.
> 
> Pretty much any watch with drilled lugs is old stock as far as I know. They aren't drilling lugs anymore (except maybe the DC-4?).
> 
> *It seems like they might be taking feedback and returning to the old logo and drilled lugs*.


I hope so, can't see the justification on getting rid of 'em.


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## Champagne InHand

yankeexpress said:


> Precisely


I worked for awhile managing home health care in a regional center. BTW it's a terrible job as you have to be licensed and DIT certified, etc to do every job under you and you do cover peoples vacations on top of your own job.

Still you had to have an EBITDA of between 50-50% or you were out of a job. You have so much invested in equipment, local, state, national and federal contracts. Very specialized labor force as you have trucks filling and carrying liquid oxygen. Therapists and nurses basically setting up home ICIs with family and constant care nursing.

Anyhow 18 months was enough for me, as I was working 2 other jobs moonlighting as a respiratory therapist, which helped with contacts and I was still in the reserves.

Sure Wal-Marts and Costco are running at 3-5% but it's a completely different business. Advertising budget comes from corporate office budget...

I went back into Pharmaceutical and Biotech marketing. There can be huge profits and huge loses there, but they are just branches of very large chemical companies that sell as much agro-chem and industrial chemicals as they do in human health.

Still you never know when your R&D finds that billion dollar a year drug, that wipes out all the failures during research phases.

Biotech is even weirder. Massive costs for insane biotech delivery systems. My story there was went to work for a company with an amazing delivery system. 10 marketing reps total, with blue sky salaries, stick options, bonus plans, but one day I flew to LA and my counterpart and I met my boss in an Embassy Suites. The company subdivided and 15 of us in Marketing and Sales became a separate entity and the bulk of the company was sucked up by a huge company that targets a specific part of the human population that need thus delivery system. So are stock contracts were worthless, we all ended up SOoL having our computers, cars... taken within a week even though they gave us 6 months pay and insurance for a year. Most of us left very lucrative careers elsewhere.

Watches all have different plans to stay in business. Some it's get a following. Offer new lineups often. Or be linked with other luxury products and have staggering high prices because people will pay for the name, perceived history and such and you spend massive amounts on PR, wining and dining the rich and famous. Then there are startups. For many, like tech, they would love for their company to be bought out by a larger entity with large assets and cash out. That can be a goal.

For others it's selling an honest product for an honest price. However if this doesn't catch on you plunge into the red very quickly. One bad design or really bad flaw can cost you a significant part of your customer base. While it's your pride and joy, you simply don't have the assets in place if something goes wrong.

If you have seen the movie "the jerk," it pokes great fun at the rise and fall of a genuine idea that was there to please people.

I'm sure Glycine are/have done what they needed to do in order to keep in business, perhaps negotiating with Invicta about marketing strategy. They could have had a ease of transition, who really knows, but Invicta will ultimate calling the shots, and of course they have plans too. I'm sure they want a stable brand that are fairly well respected. With name recognition they can slowly tighten up the pricing structure, maybe not as high as they once were, but selling more product, with a higher degree of product, all while using existing contacts, workers and many parts is much like Acura to Honda or Cadillac to Chevrolet. Right now it's not there. Maybe you are talking Buick to Chevrolet.

We can't predict the future or what company is next, but consolidation has been going on in almost every industry for quite some time. It would be in the parent corporations best interest to keep the same quality, while lowering costs. If they can sell more, they can do this.

Think about how many people started buying Orient quartz watch or basic non-hacking Rays, then ending up owning a box full of Orient.

I think this is much like that. A speculative guess that Glycine will be a middle ground quality watch that they hope will bring people up a level. Maybe the Seiko to Orient, and perhaps they have eyes on a Grand Seiko in the near future if they can successfully grow the brand while maintaining quality and purchase parts at a lower cost due to quantity.

Sure it's a gamble, but that's business.

It would make absolutely no sense to lower quality or make really trashy looking watches when they have a brand that they can easily do that with. Right now Invicta has some very good product in their Grand Divers that a lot of people like. They also have some atrocious models that are meant for very niche markets.

While Hello Kitty everything doesn't make sense in the USA, who ever had that trademark in Japan and even Korea, made mint.

So I am not betting on a quality drop. So I invested in my first Combat Sub. Risk is low. I can have it serviced locally by a friend as well as doing much myself, if needed.

It will be interesting to watch this unfold. I don't need anymore watches, but I wanted to wear a Glycine as those I know that have them have nothing but good things to say about them. Plus because of the movement, I can mod it just as easily as a Steinhart, which I've done as I'm not a huge fan of the MB hand on the O1B.

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## gh0stleader

What happened?

Invicta happened....


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## The Loco

I think there's several ways of having a sound business. One way is certainly how Rolex does business. Their pieces are of very high quality, they do a lot of marketing and they have huge markups.

Another way is how the Swatch group does business, which is a much larger group than Seiko watches brands, in terms of revenue. They sell movements, they sell cheap swatch watches, they have mid-range brands like Tissot or Hamilton, and higher end brands like Longines or Omega.

Then there is Invicta too, which started with raisonable good Rolex homages at around $100 and later acquired Glycine.

Then there are microbrands like Steinhard that make mostly homages for Rolex and IWC watches of very high quality at very raisonable prices. They maybe aren't a microbrand anymore.

But for Glycine to be a strong brand, one would compare their offerings to Hamilton, Steinhard and other similar brands.

I just bought a Hamilton Khaki Field 38 Automatic on a letter strap, and I think it's a good watch for the $335 I paid for it and it's the quintessential field watch. Now, Glycine offers their Combat field watch with a moonphase complication for around $350 which I think is a good option.

A diver from Tissot or Certina, is a bit more expensive maybe around $500, but it has a ceramic bezel, 80h power reserve, maybe 300m water resistance. A diver from Steinhard is around $400, and it's also ETA based like the Combat Sub. So, the Combat Sub would have to go in that range.

The Airman GMT probably goes against the Steinhard Ocean GMT that costs around $500 nowdays, I bought my Airman in that range.

Oris is more expensive, they have a bit more case finishing, and due to innovation and marketing they managed to establish their brand, despite using standard ETA and Sellita movements. I'm not sure Oris sells as much as Hamilton or if Glycine brand can command a premium like Oris.

I was thinking quite a bit when the Airman I liked was around $700, but at $450 it was a no brainer. It seems to me it's in line in quality with the Steinhart GMT I also own.

Does it matter for Omega owners that the Swatch group also makes cheap Swatch watches? I don't think so.

I'm not sure why should one worry Invicta owns Glycine? The Combat Subs of bronze they introduced look great. They are offering too big cases, but that's what people want. They also make standard sized ones.

Sure Tudor sells a lot more than Omega since they are owned by Rolex . . .

In the end it's a fine balance of brand equity, quality of products and price.


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## Champagne InHand

Before Tudor was a household name, without ADs in the states their products were about half the cost too. 

I’m sure it’s all business. Every industry has seen mega mergers for decades. 

It’s about keeping competitive and not going under. Competition is fierce. Even in cheap fashion watches. Smart watches, sports bands too. 


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## johnny_b2

@the Loco: right. I agree with you. I on my own have three Glycine watches. The thing though is, that the customer service from glycine is a shame (!!). I asked them several times if they could answer my question regarding the Glycines Golden Eye bezels which is once brown than again golden and now brown again. Just a simple question why? NO answer! Not a short reply. NOTHING. First I wrote that I am a member of WUS and other forums. They replied immediately that they would check and come back to me. That was around one month ago. It’s a shame. I think that they have to learn how to treat customers. That is the wrong way. Even if the watches themselves are great. Customer experience should come first. 


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## Pjerome

I absolutely believe that since INVICTA took over that the marketing strategy has changed. Very few people knew the Glycine brand..In the beginning very few knew the Invicta brand. Their ability to market, buy in bulk and ridiculous TV shows has made them as well known to the public as Rolex and Omega if not more. Apply those techniques to a smaller company like Glycine, bring in less expensive parts and better labor, use the marketing techniques that INVICTA does, and you have a major increase in sales due to mass marketing that Glycine never did . They never advertised and I never even saw them on ebay or other sales areas until they were bought out. 
Invicta sells goofy watches , 60mm , at $2000 MFSR / retail store price , and then you see , IN THE STORE, prices reduced from $2500. to $300. on sale , go online and get the same watch for $175. Now apply that to Glycine. Never saw one in a retail store and still don't. My Bronze 44mm Airman with Brown dial , is selling NEW for as much as $2100. on ebay from some sellers. Invicta wanted $700....right below that I can get it from Glycine-Direct for $599. Now there are so many choices and colors for Combat models and so many different numbered Airman and the Incursore..(I have or had all of them)..that people are actually knowing what they are. About 4 years ago I was in Bermuda. I was in the pool and as a watch person, noticed a really nice watch that a gentleman was wearing as he was sitting on the side of the pool. I was wearing a dive watch of some type . I asked him what it was because I had never seen a watch like that. He said it was a Glycine. I had never heard the brand. To me it is an Amino Acid..I am a doctor...So when I finally heard and saw the watches years later, I remembered that encounter. Some guys love the originals, old , beat up looking vintage. Glycine/Invicta knows that ..so they reissued the old vintage models as new watches with the vintage look. I say that's great marketing. I have to be honest, as much as Invicta gets a bad knock for quality and customer service, I see a ton of Invictas on people. Especially those guys that collect the huge ones. I havehad so many Invictas and sold all of them except for a White Ceramic Quartz Daytona homage . I had gigantic ones, different colors to match different clothing and occasions. I never had one break, never had one run slow or fast or any problem. I even had a huge one that was almost an exact knockoff of the Rolex Deep Sea Challenge. A massive hunk of steel that holds the world deep dive record in the Marianas trench that famous director Cameron made . I had one with a Bolt Action crown called SNIPER and had a wooden inlaid watch with walnut dial...So many. All were fine. I also had a diver that was modded to look like the Rolex Sub. Beautiful watch. INVICTA is the master of marketing other than Rolex. Apply that to Glycine , and there you have it. I'm not sure what the future will hold. I don't know if they will be crap watches later on but I have two Airman and a Combat Golden Eye and they are not going anywhere. I have 31 other watches and I never touch them for regular daily use. My Glycines are the most dependable and coolest looking with 3 time zones, 24 hr Military dials..I couldn't ask for a better watch. I had a Rolex GMT Root Beer for 27 years. It was a boring watch. Nice looking but boring basic GMT. I think Glycine knocked it out of the park with a GMT that is slimmer and bigger in diameter . Easy to read and you don't have to be afraid to wear it on the street. I think Glycine has a bright future and I hope Invicta keeps the quality up.


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## Champagne InHand

As for customer service. Right now things are probably in complete chaos. If you have ever worked for a large company that combines with another it very confusing on who does what. For the first half a year or more they need to delete multiple departments and employees so you can have one smooth flow chart for your customer base to use and have it work right. I’ve been through this twice over my career as well as working for companies that get purchased by others. 

It’s hard on everybody and it seems that it takes a good year for everything settle down into the new reality. I would hope that you could realize this and while your golden eye issue seems like a big headache, I’m certain that it will get sorted, just probably not in the timely matter you expect. 

It may be a problem with one batch, it could be a problem with the entire design. Who knows. Right now both companies are dealing with massive change. 

I worked for a pharmaceutical giant that is Novartis. Prior we were two large companies. I was the face of that new company to the Seattle area hospital markets and I didn’t even have cards or stationary because the new company was a completely new entity. At the same time the FDA recalled all immunoglobulin products from all manufacturers. It was chaos as I had just been relocated to Seattle to head up this job. I had worked for the Cuba-Geiger side but the recall included a Sandoz product called Sandoglobulin. People lives were at stake because this is a blood product and they can’t wait. Our product was from blood collected by the Swiss Red Cross, where the tainted blood was taken in by the American Red Cross, and the hospital pharmacies didn’t want to send back their stocks of the Sandoz product because they couldn’t be without some usable stocks. So I had to go back into the area hospital pharmacies and get my hand involved in personally relabeling send backs while having the new company and new people in completely new positions guarantee that so much new product would be there in 2 days, and then we sent back the older stock on the same trucks delivering the new stock. 

The funny part was that I didn’t even handle this product as my training was in our cardiovascular, endocrinology and rheumatology products, but my new position required me to adapt to the entire product spectrum both old and new. 

I could have just let the hospitals handle this on their own as I didn’t get paid on this product, but I saw that they needed and were grateful for some personalized help and expediting. 

I can’t compare watches to pharmaceuticals as the sheer size of the Swiss pharmacies giants are incredible, but I’m sure they are going through these growing pains as well. 

You try to put your employees on the biggest problems first that effect the most people then work towards fixing the smaller errors. 

One person, is unfortunately a small problem but they will get there. It would happen with any company that’s going through this type of thing. 

I’m sure that when Rolex let Tudor be sold and marketed in the USA, which happened to coincide with when SWATCH group announced that they were cutting off ETA movements to non-SWATCH brands that there were some issues as the Tudor ran of ETA 2824-2 movements at the time. I’m sure they had their new movement in the works but were forced to step up the timeline. Gaps and individual problems had to be solved and I’m sure they worked out the kinks at the AD levels first and the individual customer levels as quickly as they could. 

Growing pains are just that. Painful, but temporary. 

Invicta does sell a lot of watches. I see the big gawdawful ones throughout our Costco and in local stores. There are people who do love them. I see many more basic divers on wrists daily while walking through public areas than the crazy looking big uglies though. 

I’m sure it will all work out nicely in the end. I’m glad that Glycine is getting fresh blood and dollars as the brand makes good product. There are plenty of smaller Swiss companies whose products are quite forgettable, that could have been pick instead. Thankfully Glycine should benefit from the move. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## advcyclist

FWIW, I've been seeing a substantial uptick in the volume of Glycine watches hitting the secondary market. IDK if it's people trying to offload the Glycines in their collection from a concern that they will significantly drop in value or what, but these last few weeks have been an interesting observation in Economics... Like seeing a 1953 "Limited" Purist being listed used for over $1k (on another forum); when I bought the very same watch with same movement from MD for $600 late last year. As more used Glycines are being listed, the prices/values will tend to drop. I keep Glycine on my email alerts for used unicorns that I'm hunting.

Just throwing out my observations from the nosebleed seats...


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## hedd

advcyclist said:


> FWIW, I've been seeing a substantial uptick in the volume of Glycine watches hitting the secondary market. IDK if it's people trying to offload the Glycines in their collection from a concern that they will significantly drop in value or what, but these last few weeks have been an interesting observation in Economics... Like seeing a 1953 "Limited" Purist being listed used for over $1k (on another forum); when I bought the very same watch with same movement from MD for $600 late last year. As more used Glycines are being listed, the prices/values will tend to drop. I keep Glycine on my email alerts for used unicorns that I'm hunting.
> 
> Just throwing out my observations from the nosebleed seats...


It's only 522 on glycine-direct right now.

The 1K number makes me think it was the pre-invicta one with airman hands and a non-itallic NOON. That watch is probably still worth 1000-1300.


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## advcyclist

hedd said:


> It's only 522 on glycine-direct right now.
> 
> The 1K number makes me think it was the pre-invicta one with airman hands and a non-itallic NOON. That watch is probably still worth 1000-1300.


Just curious what makes the pre-invicta model worth more because of different hands?

Side by side photo of the two; Mine on the right and the $1k listed one on the left.


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## rschmidt97

advcyclist said:


> Just curious what makes the pre-invicta model worth more because of different hands?
> 
> Side by side photo of the two; Mine on the right and the $1k listed one on the left.


*Because...&#8230;..*


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## rschmidt97

advcyclist said:


> Just curious what makes the pre-invicta model worth more because of different hands?
> 
> Side by side photo of the two; Mine on the right and the $1k listed one on the left.


Also, your spring bars are obviously cheaper.


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## hedd

It was a more limited run, eta movement, cost more at retail, I like the hands and fonts better, it's not still available for 522 retail. 

I'd gladly play $600 for the older one, but will not pay 522 for the new one, though the real reason is that it's a bit big for my taste anyway. I do really like they way they both look.


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## dp247

The Airman vintage 1953 one on the left is from the original run of 600 made before the buyout that were individually numbered. Mine for example:








So worth more to many because of the limited run, and being pre-buyout.


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## Ricardo84

Like a lot of Glycine owners I wasn't overjoyed about the Invicta takeover, but I still think the brand offers excellent value for money.

It will be interesting to see what happens as more new models come out in the future though.


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## tockandroll

Ricardo84 said:


> Like a lot of Glycine owners I wasn't overjoyed about the Invicta takeover, but I still think the brand offers excellent value for money.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what happens as more new models come out in the future though.


The history is rich with Glycine. Invicta or not it's a great brand. If you write off Glycine because of the takeover that's just sad


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## Dave.2

In the U.S, if you want to order a part from Glycine, it now must be shipped from Switzerland to Invicta's International Watch Service Center in Utah. It is then re-shipped from there to your address.


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## G1Ninja

Depending on what happens this week at Baselworld, I might consider getting one of these watches. I like the older designs more than the modern ones. And you can't beat the price they are asking these days. Has anyone seen these on sale on TV like the parent company watches?


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## tockandroll

G1Ninja said:


> Depending on what happens this week at Baselworld, I might consider getting one of these watches. I like the older designs more than the modern ones. And you can't beat the price they are asking these days. Has anyone seen these on sale on TV like the parent company watches?


When I was getting my haircut the TV had some people pushing Invicats, but there were no Glycines


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## rschmidt97

gh0stleader said:


> What happened?
> 
> Invicta happened....


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## NerdyChuck

I'm new to the Glycine world.. I was reading about 24 hour watches and got a burr under my saddle that I wanted one .. "Just because".. I researched the forum for 24 hour watches and other than the Russian watches, Glycine came up more often than other brands. I happened to stumble onto a MassDrop for the Airman Base 22 model and the price seemed reasonable. So I ordered it... Read more about the brand and decided I couldn't stop at just one.. So when the massdrop came out with the Combat Sub, I ordered one of those too... It should ship this weekend. *Fingers crossed*

I got my Base 22 and it has become my daily wear.. It's replaced my Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch (which is still my favorite watch) and several Seiko watches as well as an Alpha homage to the Omega Pumpkin (long story short, I saw Mark Harmon wearing what looked like a Omega Pumpkin on NCIS early in the show's run and since I couldn't afford an Omega, bought the next best thing .. That thing keeps great time) . 

I have been pleased with my Airman (it also keeps very accurate time.. Maybe I managed to get one pre-Invicta (mine has drilled lugs), but I'm pleased with my purchase... Next time a GMT comes up for a drop, I'll consider it... Right now I like my Purist model.. I also have an Invicta Grand Diver that I wore on occasion...


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## hedd

NerdyChuck said:


> I'm new to the Glycine world.. I was reading about 24 hour watches and got a burr under my saddle that I wanted one .. "Just because".. I researched the forum for 24 hour watches and other than the Russian watches, Glycine came up more often than other brands. I happened to stumble onto a MassDrop for the Airman Base 22 model and the price seemed reasonable. So I ordered it... Read more about the brand and decided I couldn't stop at just one.. So when the massdrop came out with the Combat Sub, I ordered one of those too... It should ship this weekend. *Fingers crossed*
> 
> I got my Base 22 and it has become my daily wear.. It's replaced my Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch (which is still my favorite watch) and several Seiko watches as well as an Alpha homage to the Omega Pumpkin (long story short, I saw Mark Harmon wearing what looked like a Omega Pumpkin on NCIS early in the show's run and since I couldn't afford an Omega, bought the next best thing .. That thing keeps great time) .
> 
> I have been pleased with my Airman (it also keeps very accurate time.. Maybe I managed to get one pre-Invicta (mine has drilled lugs), but I'm pleased with my purchase... Next time a GMT comes up for a drop, I'll consider it... Right now I like my Purist model.. I also have an Invicta Grand Diver that I wore on occasion...


The only GMT I like right now is the DC-4. It just doesn't make sense to me to have a 12 hour sweep on a 24 hour dial. I like the purists much better in general. Also, they don't suffer from as many alignment issues.


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## Champagne InHand

I got a note from Glycine-Direct, who sell on eBay. They sell to mass drop. So if anybody was worried about warranties they should be covered. 

The Glycine are priced pretty well but so are vintage Soviet/Russian watches. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## househalfman

Champagne InHand said:


> I got a note from Glycine-Direct, who sell on eBay. They sell to mass drop. So if anybody was worried about warranties they should be covered.
> 
> The Glycine are priced pretty well but so are vintage Soviet/Russian watches.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Or bypass massdrop altogether and make watchgooroo an offer that matches MD's price, get the watch within the week.


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## G1Ninja

hedd said:


> The only GMT I like right now is the DC-4. It just doesn't make sense to me to have a 12 hour sweep on a 24 hour dial. I like the purists much better in general. Also, they don't suffer from as many alignment issues.


I think the 12 hours is easier to read for people that don't think in 24 hours. Or those who immediately read watch or clock time in the 12 hour format. I'm almost finished deciding which model and when reading time on these watches I read them wrong a few times. And I used 24 time a lot when I was younger.


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## hedd

G1Ninja said:


> I think the 12 hours is easier to read for people that don't think in 24 hours. Or those who immediately read watch or clock time in the 12 hour format. I'm almost finished deciding which model and when reading time on these watches I read them wrong a few times. And I used 24 time a lot when I was younger.


I don't think you caught what I was trying to explain. I like the 24 hour format too. The purists do a great job with it. But do you know that the GMT models hour hand rotates every 12 hours even though the dial shows 24? You have to read the regular hands like every 2nd number is a meaningless stick (or divide by 2). The GMT hand reads correctly though. This is so unintuitive to me.

The DC-4 is unique(as far as I know). The hour hand sweeps correctly over the dial and the GMT hand sweeps correctly over the bezel.


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## ohhenry1

hedd said:


> I don't think you caught what I was trying to explain. I like the 24 hour format too. The purists do a great job with it. But do you know that the GMT models hour hand rotates every 12 hours even though the dial shows 24? You have to read the regular hands like every 2nd number is a meaningless stick (or divide by 2). The GMT hand reads correctly though. This is so unintuitive to me.
> 
> The DC-4 is unique(as far as I know). The hour hand sweeps correctly over the dial and the GMT hand sweeps correctly over the bezel.


I see what you are saying. On at least some other Airman GMT models, you'd read the 12 hr hour hand against the lume/indices, and don't look at them at all against the 24 hr number tracks (which is used only for reading the GMT hand). Can be a bit confusing, but that way, at least, no mental math is required.


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## hedd

ohhenry1 said:


> I see what you are saying. On at least some other Airman GMT models, you'd read the 12 hr hour hand against the lume/indices, and don't look at them at all against the 24 hr number tracks (which is used only for reading the GMT hand). Can be a bit confusing, but that way, at least, no mental math is required.


Yeah I just wanted to make sure that other guy was informed on this.


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## G1Ninja

hedd said:


> I don't think you caught what I was trying to explain. I like the 24 hour format too. The purists do a great job with it. But do you know that the GMT models hour hand rotates every 12 hours even though the dial shows 24? You have to read the regular hands like every 2nd number is a meaningless stick (or divide by 2). The GMT hand reads correctly though. This is so unintuitive to me.
> 
> The DC-4 is unique(as far as I know). The hour hand sweeps correctly over the dial and the GMT hand sweeps correctly over the bezel.


Here are some of the watches I was considering. I know the hour hand rotates every 12 hours. If you look at the blue Base 22, this is what confused me.









You see the circle and rectangle markers. Especially early on the 1 and 2. The 1 (circle marker) isn't 1. But the 2 is 1 and you have to read the hours off the rectangle markers. I miss read that a bunch of times reading off the markers. Same goes for the DC-4 which I thought I was going to get at first.









Are you saying the DC-4's hour hand moves in 24 hours? That would really get confusing.

I found the Base 22 Luminous easy to read as it doesn't have the circles.









So you have the normal 12 hours which you read off the rectangle markers. The red GMT hand for 24 hours on the outer track and bezel.


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## hedd

That is a good point. I still like the DC4 dial better for readability of the 12 hour hand, but the sticks on that luminous one do look cleaner and lead you to the 12 hour answer better than the blue. I had not noticed the difference before you pointed it out.

The DC4 is probably bad if the main thing you are looking at is the GMT time while the bezel is rotated to another time. It really compromises that readability.


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## mr2manycars

My post invicta glycines keep better time than my pre invicta glycines. I also don’t mind the new logo, the wings seem more appropriate for a brand that made its name selling pilots watches. I never really understood the old “w” logo in the first place. I see zero loss of quality with the new versions, quite the opposite really. I’m really not sure what all the hate and the fuss is about. Who cares if invicta owns glycine, they clearly aren’t making the kind of changes that would ruin the brand for me, and the new Selita movements are more accurate and will be easier to service and get parts for, plus the prices are better. Seems like a win win to me.


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## zack20cb

ohhenry1 said:


> I see what you are saying. On at least some other Airman GMT models, you'd read the 12 hr hour hand against the lume/indices, and don't look at them at all against the 24 hr number tracks (which is used only for reading the GMT hand). Can be a bit confusing, but that way, at least, no mental math is required.


I went with a Purist Airman 18 this exact reason. I think the idea is that people have been looking at 12-hour dials their whole life, and don't need cues to tell the 10 index from the 11, just the presence of the lume pip is meant to be enough. (I do agree with this logic, as far as it goes...most GMT watches pay short shrift to the 24-hour indices, where people actually _do_ need help! But I'd rather put all my eggs in the 24-hour basket, the big hour hand and the 24-hour chapter ring are great together.)

Unfortunately, the 18 Purist, No. 1 Purist and apparently also the Base 22 Luminous Purist are still compromised. The dial is shared with the GMT version, and there are only 12 lume pips. I wish the odd hours also had lume pips. The blue Base 22 dial is perfect, but I still prefer the smaller size of the Airman 18.

Hopefully we can look forward to differentiated dials in future GMT/Purist releases.


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## cold_beer839

Just got a Combat 3908.191 from a member of WUS that bought it new to harvest the bracelet for one of his other Combats (I guess Glycine won't sell bracelets separately). Anyway, IMHO it's a great watch at under $500 (I paid $300 BNIB on a nato). It keeps pretty nice time so far at +1.5 sec/day, so I can't knock the Stellita-made GL-224 (which is 28.8k bph). I'm sure the older ETA movement models were awesome too. The watch looks terrific too, but I do like the older crown logo better.


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## serge70

Ups,downs & Invictagate notwithstanding,the Airman is a damn fine looking watch with heritage to put some other fancy brands to shame.


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## Gerry

serge70 said:


> Ups,downs & Invictagate notwithstanding,the Airman is a damn fine looking watch with heritage to put some other fancy brands to shame.


Agreed!


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## gary4421944

Well said....


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