# Watch Tuner Timegrapher app?



## jsavis

Hello,

I wonder if anyone here is using the 'Watch Tuner Timegrapher' iPhone/iPad app by Bartlomiej Swiatek:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/watch-tuner-timegrapher/id991367080?mt=8

I see that a few people have experience with 'Kello' and some other watch tuning apps, but I get no search results for this Timegrapher app of Bartlomiej's. By looking at the screenshots I think it looks quite interesting and seems to have more features than other similar apps. If anyone has used this one, I would very much like to hear your opinions.

Now, I have no illusions that any app with a headphone mic could be a real substitute for a professional timegrapher, but at this beginning stage of my watch hobby I just can't justify spending houndreds on a real machine. If this kind of toy would give me at least some useful data and help me to adjust my watches just a little bit better than without one, then I would be glad to pay this price. But if it's completely useless, then I'd rather spend that money on something else.

J


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## El @

Is seems like these are elusive applications, and would require a good mic ($$) anyway. Me myself (a computer diehard) have searched, found nothing conclusive, sent $100 and some to a chinese seller. If nothing else it will make a presence on the bench, and a good picture background.


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## jsavis

Thanks for your input El @! Do you mean that you have something like this one:

No 1000 Multifunction Timegrapher Watch Timing Machine Calibration Tools | eBay

How have you liked it, other than using it for a picture background?


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## El @

jsavis said:


> Thanks for your input El @! Do you mean that you have something like this one:
> 
> No 1000 Multifunction Timegrapher Watch Timing Machine Calibration Tools | eBay
> 
> How have you liked it, other than using it for a picture background?


That's what I bought but please check thread below for more input:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/watch-timing-machine-1845282.html


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## Noah B

I've tried kello and it was awful, I had a new mic and the app still didn't pick up the bpm. I did download an app called "Hairspring" in the apple app store and it's excellent! I use it to regulate various watches and it's extremely accurate.


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## bsw579

jsavis said:


> Hello,
> 
> I wonder if anyone here is using the 'Watch Tuner Timegrapher' iPhone/iPad app by Bartlomiej Swiatek:
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/watch-tuner-timegrapher/id991367080?mt=8
> 
> I see that a few people have experience with 'Kello' and some other watch tuning apps, but I get no search results for this Timegrapher app of Bartlomiej's. By looking at the screenshots I think it looks quite interesting and seems to have more features than other similar apps. If anyone has used this one, I would very much like to hear your opinions.
> 
> Now, I have no illusions that any app with a headphone mic could be a real substitute for a professional timegrapher, but at this beginning stage of my watch hobby I just can't justify spending houndreds on a real machine. If this kind of toy would give me at least some useful data and help me to adjust my watches just a little bit better than without one, then I would be glad to pay this price. But if it's completely useless, then I'd rather spend that money on something else.
> 
> J


This app should work with almost any headphone mic. Apple In-Ear Headphones mic is just fine. You can find videos on youtube to see how this app works.


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## jsavis

Well, I made the huge purchase decision and bought this Watch Tuner Timegrapher app. And I'm glad I did, I'm actually quite impressed with it. Remember though that I don't have any experience with any other app like this nor a real timing machine, so I can't compare this to anything. But as far as I can see it detects the beat very well, is not overly sensitive to external noise and gives fairly consistent results, i.e. several measurements in same position tend to show rather similar values.

I begun to test this with my Atlantic (Unitas 6325 movement) and found that it had a beat error of about 1.3 ms, which was very easy to adjust down to near zero. Also found that the amplitude is a litte low (about 250 at full wind), so maybe my cleaning and/or lubricating skills are not at very good level yet, or maybe there's some other problem.
Now I'm checking the measurements in different positions, but playing with that little headphone mic is a bit of a challenge... I'm actually just thinking of building some kind of stand or holder that would make it easier to keep the mic in good contact with the crown in all positions.

Maybe the accuracy of this system is not enough to make any final conclusions about the helth of a movement or decisions about needed repair actions. But on the other hand I am not at such level that I could make such analysis and repairs anyway, so I think that for now this tool is just what I need, with a fraction of the cost of even the cheapest chinese timing machines. Referring to my opening post, I think it definitely gives me usefull data and helps me to adjust my watches way better than without it.

All in all I think Mr. Swiatek has done a good job with this app and I hope he will continue developing it.


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## WM1966

i have just installed WATCH_O_SCOPE 1.1. onto sony vista laptop computer. When i get to main screen i get a message 'unable to open audio input device. a device ID has been used that is out of range for your system'

Please help. i have not attached microphone to the laptop yet, as i am still to get one . 

has the error message come up because i have not put a microphone into my laptop or is this a software issue between vista and watch-o-scope?


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## snather

Noah B said:


> I've tried kello and it was awful, I had a new mic and the app still didn't pick up the bpm. I did download an app called "Hairspring" in the apple app store and it's excellent! I use it to regulate various watches and it's extremely accurate.


Gave hairspring a try and it works a treat. Much better than Kello. In fact I have deleted Kello Thanks for the hookup

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## fearlessleader

I've decided to download Mr. Swiatek's Watch Tuner app. Since I won't use FaceBook, does anyone know how to reach him? email? twitter? a website? any forum he monitors?

One of my questions is: He talked about making some iPhone mic that fits onto the crown of a watch. I don't care about using his mic or not, but some clasp or clip to hold an iPhone mic onto the crown sure would be mighty nice... Any ideas?

TIA


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## adamkov

Realizing a year old thread has just been resurrected I add my $.2
Watch-O-Scope PC application is very good. tg developed by a forum member is even better.

On Android, I have used Tickoprint. With a box standard headset mic, it was quite OK.


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## adamkov

Link to tg (open source)
https://github.com/vacaboja/tg


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## EddieR

jsavis said:


> Hello,
> 
> I wonder if anyone here is using the 'Watch Tuner Timegrapher' iPhone/iPad app by Bartlomiej Swiatek:
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/watch-tuner-timegrapher/id991367080?mt=8
> 
> I see that a few people have experience with 'Kello' and some other watch tuning apps, but I get no search results for this Timegrapher app of Bartlomiej's. By looking at the screenshots I think it looks quite interesting and seems to have more features than other similar apps. If anyone has used this one, I would very much like to hear your opinions.
> 
> Now, I have no illusions that any app with a headphone mic could be a real substitute for a professional timegrapher, but at this beginning stage of my watch hobby I just can't justify spending houndreds on a real machine. If this kind of toy would give me at least some useful data and help me to adjust my watches just a little bit better than without one, then I would be glad to pay this price. But if it's completely useless, then I'd rather spend that money on something else.
> 
> J


Their Facebook Page has the following entry.....









Here's a Video of that software being used on a iPad...


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## Habitant

In the meantime, a solution of sorts for using a headphone microphone with these apps is to use some type of putty to hold it in place. By putty I mean something like watchmaker's Rodico, which is clean and safe around your watch. In the UK, we have a product called Blu Tak, which is used for sticking posters onto walls; something similar exists in the US, but I can't remember the brand name.

Anyway, a couple of small balls of this at either end of the mic does the trick. You can then use the mic in dial up, dial down, crown up (and so on…) positions more easily. Putting a small cover over the whole affair reduces background noise. I tried the outer cover from a CD stack; it's transparent, cheap and reduces the effect of background noise.


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## fearlessleader

I was thinking of blu tak, too. Need something!


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## bluesguitarplayer56

I downloaded Hairspring a couple of days ago. It only gives you the rate, and does not give amplitude, beat error, or lift angle. The software itself may work just fine, but it didn't work on any of my watches unless the back of the case was removed. I used a brand new iPhone headset mic.

i don't want to have to remove the back of the watch to detect the rate, so the app was a bust for me.


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## fearlessleader

Timegrapher app works fine for me. I did find, however, that I had to turn the sensitivity up to 12-18 with the mic held onto the crown. Then it worked fine. So, try changing the sensitivity until it shows the bph correctly.


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## FTE

I have had great success using Watch Tuner with iphone. The microphone placement and sensitivity setting are a bit touchy unless the case is open, so I am going to try a digital stethoscope as the microphone (https://www.amazon.com/Only-iPhone-...&qid=1528070713&sr=8-1&keywords=iphone+stetho). I will report back on results.


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## arparpar

Did you ever end up trying the stethoscope? How’d it go?


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## BillSWPA

I downloaded the Watch Tuner Timegrapher App on my iPad and iPhone. I have not yet figured out how to get good results on the iPhone (probably due to difficulty getting the watch close to the microphone while in the protective case), but results on the iPad are good for hobbyist-level measuring. I had the best results with sensitivity in the middle, tick detection noise cancellation on, diagram noise reduction set to very high, and rate measurement period set to long. With these settings, it was able to correctly identify the beat rate for two watches and one clock, and to measure the extent to which each of the watches was running fast or slow to within about 1 1/2 seconds of what I have recorded using the WatchTracker app (recording deviation from official US time over a period of days).

While certainly not a professional grade tool, it is completely worth the $12.99 I paid for it, and definitely provides a hobbyist with another form of insight into their watches.


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## QuartzCrisis

FTE said:


> I have had great success using Watch Tuner with iphone. The microphone placement and sensitivity setting are a bit touchy unless the case is open, so I am going to try a digital stethoscope as the microphone (https://www.amazon.com/Only-iPhone-...&qid=1528070713&sr=8-1&keywords=iphone+stetho). I will report back on results.


Did anybody try digital stethoscope as the microphone? This might work well


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## FTE

QuartzCrisis said:


> Did anybody try digital stethoscope as the microphone? This might work well


I did try it, but this particular stethoscope is too large for watches. I either need a smaller one or something to put in between like a membrane...have not had a change to try this yet.


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## BillSWPA

My impressions of the app today are a bit more negative. I was unable to get good readings on two manually wound watches as well as the same two automatics tested yesterday. Furthermore, at least one of the two automatics appears to have become at least temporarily magnetized from being held against the microphone of the iPad and/or iPhone. A demagnetized has been ordered, so we’ll see if that does the trick. I would definitely encourage the use of a separate microphone with this app.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BillSWPA

Just tried the compass next to my iPad. The magnetic field is particularly strong right by the microphone.


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## BillSWPA

The demagnetizer arrived today, and I also purchased an earbud with a microphone. The demagnetizer appears to have my watch behaving normally again. The microphone on the earbud permits greater accuracy than the built in microphone on he device, particularly since all of my devices are in protective cases. Also, the microphone on the earbud does not appear to have a strong magnetic field, while the earpieces do have enough of a magnetic field to affect my compass needle.

I cannot emphasize enough when using this app to use the earbud microphone, and keep the watch distant from the iPad or iPhone as well as from the earbuds.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FTE

BillSWPA said:


> The demagnetizer arrived today, and I also purchased an earbud with a microphone. The demagnetizer appears to have my watch behaving normally again. The microphone on the earbud permits greater accuracy than the built in microphone on he device, particularly since all of my devices are in protective cases. Also, the microphone on the earbud does not appear to have a strong magnetic field, while the earpieces do have enough of a magnetic field to affect my compass needle.
> 
> I cannot emphasize enough when using this app to use the earbud microphone, and keep the watch distant from the iPad or iPhone as well as from the earbuds.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is also the app creator's advice. I would never put a mechanical watch against an ipad or iphone as both have strong magnets.

Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk


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## BillSWPA

FTE said:


> This is also the app creator's advice. I would never put a mechanical watch against an ipad or iphone as both have strong magnets.
> 
> Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk


The help menu in my app does mention use of either the built in microphone or the earbud microphone. The earbud seems most preferred by them, but I did encourage them to really, really stress not using the built in mic on an iPad.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FTE

From the description of the app in the app store: "The recommended way to record ticks is to touch the crown of the watch with the headset (earplugs) microphone."


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk


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## BillSWPA

From the help section of the app:

“The application uses the built in microphone or an external headset microphone to record audible ticks of the watch.”

Yes, the earbud headset is recommended, but the built in microphone is not discouraged. Using the built in microphone should be discouraged.

Even with the earbud microphone, accuracy is so hit or miss that I question the data generated.

This app does have higher ratings in the Apple App Store than the other timegraphing apps I saw. They all seem to have their fans as well as their limitations.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FTE

Hmmm, for me the app was very reliable, but not via the crown. I would actually take the back off the case and lay the microphone across the open back while regulating and adjusting. Then I would hold it in place while changing positions to make adjustments in other positions....admittedly a bit of a PITA, but highly effective. You can use a clothespin or clamp to hold it in place as well, leaving just enough space to reach the regulator. Like you I found crown readings to be pretty hit or miss. Nothing beats a real timeographer...worth the investment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jsavis

Hi,

As the one who started this thread about three years ago, I thought that I could also say a few words here.

For the price you pay I think this is a fantastic app. I used it for about a year and successfully regulated quite a few watches with it. However, I gradually grew to hate the endless hassle with the earbud microphone and the fact that it din't allow any background noise, which was a real problem with four lively kids in the house. So eventually I bought a "real" timegrapher (a cheap Chinese one though, hence the quotation marks) and have not once regretted it. After fiddling with the earbud microphone it was pure luxury to be able to mount a watch or movement to the microphone stand and easily flip it to different positions, and get good readings even with someone playig the Highland bagpipes nearby. Well worth the investment, as FTE said.


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## Romocito

snather said:


> Gave hairspring a try and it works a treat. Much better than Kello. In fact I have deleted Kello Thanks for the hookup
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


i cannot find the hairpsring app on the app store... help?


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## svorkoetter

I recently found a readily available watch test stand from AliExpress, that works great with Watch-O-Scope, and without requiring building any microphone or amplifier. They have several versions, but the one I bought and tried was about $39 CDN (about $30 USD) and it just works. The one I bought was the one in the left-most small photo to the right of the larger photo. I have no connection to AliExpress.


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## thetrenchdude

so many threads about cheap , and quite frankly, Garbage timegrapher apps. Buy a weishi 1000 $169 its all you need. Its not gunna break anyones piggy bank. Watchmaking is not a cheap hobby if you expect to get the most out of it.


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## fearlessleader

svorkoetter said:


> I recently found a readily available watch test stand from AliExpress, that works great with Watch-O-Scope, and without requiring building any microphone or amplifier. They have several versions, but the one I bought and tried was about $39 CDN (about $30 USD) and it just works. The one I bought was the one in the left-most small photo to the right of the larger photo. I have no connection to AliExpress.


I searched and searched and couldn't find anything on Ali-E that looks at all like a watch test stand. Almost all of them seemed to be some sort of multi-watch smart watch dock. Would you please provide some more information about the one you found -- store name? how you searched? item's name? anything?

Thanks


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## svorkoetter

Click the link I put in my previous post. That will bring up an Ali page of test stands. Then click the left-most image in the right column to display the one I ordered. Worked great for me.








The above is my picture with my watch on it.


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## svorkoetter

Removed a second message I accidentally added.


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## fearlessleader

svorkoetter said:


> Click the link I put in my previous post. That will bring up an Ali page of test stands. Then click the left-most image in the right column to display the one I ordered. Worked great for me.
> ...
> The above is my picture with my watch on it.


Thanks! First, I didn't see that was a link. Plus the picture of the one you bought really helps. Here's hoping!


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