# A SENSIBLE WATCH FOR A DIE-HARD CITIZEN FAN: THOUGHTS AND SUGGESTIONS



## Dr.Detroit

Hi everyone! 
This has probably already been done before (for sure) and it's sort of lame to start a discussion on the trite subject of "which watch is right for me", but i happen to find myself in a predicament right now: as a Citizen watch fan, i am looking for that "special" watch that'll give me function, aesthetics and satisfaction so that i can wear it and enjoy it on a daily basis. Generally i am very careful about how i treat my watches, but i am willing to get rid of this personality trait which is hindering my ability to wear anything at all as of late. I am not saying i will be hitting rocks with my watch, still don't want to have to baby it, so it needs to be tough (pun intended,of course!)
I am interested in automatics mostly, but could do some Eco-Drive's, but they'd have to be really enticing and punch above their weight, if you catch my drift ;-) 
Broadly speaking, i prefer smaller watches because of my small wrists, but i know with Citizen this is something of an unusual pairing. I very much like the Skindiver-style cases of the 60's and 70's and in fact, one of my all-time grails is the Citizen Chronomaster 500m Chronometer (rarer than a hens' teeth...) 
Reference NY0040 is to my liking (as well as Fugu Asia Ltd edition), just to give you guys a few more details. But that won't work well with more formal attire, i fear..
I've always fancied the Ray Mears model with the monocoque case design but never got my hands on one and i know the newer iterations are no longer being made in Japan but are cased in China (think the Montbell edition). 
So, long story short (too late!): do you guys have any thoughts and suggestions on the subject? I am grateful to you all for taking the time to read this and i am looking forward to reading your comments. 
Cheers! Stay safe. 
Dr.Detroit


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## Dante80

Wouldn't something classic like the *PMD56-2952 *fit the bill, given your preferences? 
Tough, Solar Atomic, Light, moderately sized, a strap monster for dressing up/down, etc etc..










You can read a review here:. Review Citizen PMD56-2952


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## Dr.Detroit

Dante80 said:


> Wouldn't something classic like the *PMD56-2952 *fit the bill, given your preferences?
> Tough, Solar Atomic, Light, moderately sized, a strap monster for dressing up/down, etc etc..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can read a review here:. Review Citizen PMD56-2952


I guess so, even though i've looked at it before and surprisingly, much though i liked the original Ray Mears, i've never felt the same way about this model. 
I much prefer automatic watches, and i know Citizen delivers even at the mid-tier level. 
I am very much into vintage Citizen divers (like reference 52 0110, for example). 
Thanks anyway for your kind suggestion ;-)


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## glass_citymd02

I've owned my NY0040 for around 10 years now and absolutely love it. I've seen them dressed up with oyster style bracelets, but I agree with you that the NY0040 doesn't work very well with formal attire. Nonetheless, I recommend the watch wholeheartedly for its comfort, it's uniqueness, and it's conservative size


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## mougino

I own 2 pre-Ray Mears Titanium Eco-Drives, one with no date (the only one I know, no crown ghost position), and one on Ti bracelet. Both wear small: 37 to 38 mm on a good day. 















References are E030 and C7873 respectively.


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## aafanatic

@Dr.Detroit welcome to the forum l really enjoy your post. A formal watch is so easy to find and they don't have to be very expensive.
Maybe two watches would be easier, but that's not the thread is it?


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## Teeuu




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## Dr.Detroit

Wow! Thank you all so much for the highly informative content, i really appreciate your help and suggestions! That's what i had intended from the start, you're giving me a ton of useful hints. 


aafanatic said:


> @Dr.Detroit welcome to the forum l really enjoy your post. A formal watch is so easy to find and they don't have to be very expensive.
> Maybe two watches would be easier, but that's not the thread is it?


Thanks for your kind words, i am glad you like the post and thanks for the welcome message!
Back to brass tacks: yes, i've thought a dress watch would be nice as well, then again i am still young ;-) so i am still not fully comfortable with a dressier alternative; I've always wondered whether or not to get the SARB 033 (or 035) by Seiko, but i've heard and read that the 6R35 movement leaves a lot to be desired. 
The idea of owing a vintage Citizen entices me, if only i could find a nigh-on perfect ref. 52-0110 that'd make my day. 
For anyone who's interested, i have a vintage Seiko Gen.1 military chronograph up for grabs or trade for...? Thrall me ;-)


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## rob3691

glass_citymd02 said:


> View attachment 15897023
> 
> I've owned my NY0040 for around 10 years now and absolutely love it. I've seen them dressed up with oyster style bracelets, but I agree with you that the NY0040 doesn't work very well with formal attire. Nonetheless, I recommend the watch wholeheartedly for its comfort, it's uniqueness, and it's conservative size


Nice watch!!! I've been admiring the NY0040. How's the accuracy of the watch? Have you had to have it serviced in the 10 years you've owned it?


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## glass_citymd02

rob3691 said:


> Nice watch!!! I've been admiring the NY0040. How's the accuracy of the watch? Have you had to have it serviced in the 10 years you've owned it?


I have not had it serviced since I've owned but probably should at some point. It's been consistent under 10sec/day fast for as long as I've owned it. I've brought it free diving, snorkeling, and wore it on board my submarine in the last couple years I was in the navy, so it hasn't been coddled or anything


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## Dr.Detroit

Update: i stumbled upon this very interesting and thorough article, here's the link: Citizen's Vintage Mechanical Divers, 1962 to 1980
clearly the ChronoMaster 500m chronometer is the star of the show here, but i'll admit that both the Jet Auto Dater and the Skin Diver Auto Dater are pretty sexy ;-) 
That's what i had in mind from the first, something like that. Are there any modern Citizen's that share the same aesthetic clues? 
Thanks


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## Ziptie

It would be easier to help you if you posted pictures of your desired aesthetic, rather than hoping we'd ask go read a long article and look for references you mentioned. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out that you're making a much larger request than you might realize.

Here's the AW1598-70x. Fixed bezel, eco-drive, affordable. Searching the Citizen site for the word vintage turns up a few other models. Good luck!






Citizen Vintage Brycen Sport Eco-Drive Green Dial Watch | CITIZEN


Nothing says classic better than a vintage throwback, and the redesigned Citizen Vintage Brycen Sport timepiece is just that, with distinguished features sure to stand out on your wrist. This stylish watch in a stainless steel case with pine green dial and bezel, stainless steel bracelet and...




www.citizenwatch.com


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## Nokie

Ziptie said:


> Here's the AW1598-70x.


Excellent suggestion. I have this watch and really find myself wearing it more often than not.


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## Dr.Detroit

Ziptie said:


> It would be easier to help you if you posted pictures of your desired aesthetic, rather than hoping we'd ask go read a long article and look for references you mentioned. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out that you're making a much larger request than you might realize.
> 
> Here's the AW1598-70x. Fixed bezel, eco-drive, affordable. Searching the Citizen site for the word vintage turns up a few other models. Good luck!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Citizen Vintage Brycen Sport Eco-Drive Green Dial Watch | CITIZEN
> 
> 
> Nothing says classic better than a vintage throwback, and the redesigned Citizen Vintage Brycen Sport timepiece is just that, with distinguished features sure to stand out on your wrist. This stylish watch in a stainless steel case with pine green dial and bezel, stainless steel bracelet and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.citizenwatch.com


You have to understand, i am new to the forum and don't really know my way around here as of yet. Just to stress though, i didn't intend anyone to read anything, except of course my posts: that article i shared i just thought it'd be an interesting read for anyone willing to delve deeper into Citizen divers from the 60s up to the 80s, but i clearly pointed out the references that i prefer, so that's my desired aesthetics; i just wanted to know whether Citizen makes something similar to those today. 
Other watches i like in general, and from which design clues and hints may be derived, are the Seiko SARB line (discontinued), the Chronosport Sea Quartz (Magnum P.I.), the Seiko SLA017. 
Perhaps i just made a mistake starting this discussion, or maybe, as you aptly surmised, my request is larger than i had anticipated...
By the by, thanks for your suggestion, but it won't do, i tend to lean more towards automatics. Why didn't i get a Seiko SARB right from the first then? Well, i've read that the 6R35 movement accuracy leaves a lot to be desired, and also read that somehow Citizen automatic movements are more consistent accuracy-wise.


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## Ziptie

You did nothing wrong here, just letting you know people will have an easier time helping if you post pictures for them to reference.


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## Dr.Detroit

There you go! This is my go-to look.
Would love to get my hands on a mint example of this, or something very, very similar...
Photo courtesy of Vintage Citizen Watches.


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## Dante80

Something like this then?










Or this (for auto)?


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## Dr.Detroit

Dante80 said:


> Something like this then?


close, but no cigar. I still prefer auto's. These newer Citizen's look a bit "gaudy" to me...my best bet would be to find one vintage in mint or, possibly, NOS condition, but that'd come at a certain amount.


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## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> close, but no cigar. I still prefer auto's. These newer Citizen's look a bit "gaudy" to me...my best bet would be to find one vintage in mint or, possibly, NOS condition, but that'd come at a certain amount.


A certain amount? This one was not anywhere near mint.









And remember what VCW wrote this April? Citizen Chronomaster 500m Chronometer - Vintage Citizen Watches


> *Conclusion 2021 April:*
> 
> In all the years of hunting these watches I saw only *23 pieces*, in private collections or online. I had four of them. Putting together all the serials and details the conclusion so far is:
> 
> 
> 11 of them are made in April 1969, 1 made in March 1969 and 4 are made in January 1969 (901006xx) (I cant see the serial of the other 7 in order to date them)
> there are two dial variations: "CHRONOMETER" & "Chronometer" Why?
> the "Chronometer" variant has an aging yellow lume. The other remains more green.
> the April serials range is from about 90400420 up to about 90401130 (except the January 69 pieces, the first one being is 90100xx and the March one) _How do the last 5 digits of the Citizen serial actually work ?_
> the finishing of the case - all brushing should be longitudinal, only on the top part of the case
> they came on 20mm straight end Tropic straps (with Citizen signed buckle?)
> there is one collector in Japan that has four pieces, I also had four but only two at the same time. I have one now.
> based on some of my sources it seems the total number of watches produced is probably 500, (500 for 500m) most of them probably are thrown away in the trash. We tend to forget back then watches were not collectable as they are now.
> the reason why they were made was because Citizen had something to prove, the reason they stopped making them is because they made the statement and proved it. They made the best diver. The rest is history.
> no parts are available or will be available.


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## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> A certain amount? This one was not anywhere near mint.
> View attachment 15900273
> 
> 
> And remember what VCW wrote this April? Citizen Chronomaster 500m Chronometer - Vintage Citizen Watches


Sadly i know...i fear that this will remain a mirage for me. But how about a 150m "challenge diver"? 
I've found this one: 








Citizen 150m 62-6198 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Citizen 150m 62-6198 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com




surely looks promising, but i wonder how will it perform accuracy-wise for a near 50-year-old watch.


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## CitizenPromaster

How should a watch perform accuracy-wise? For most people accuracy is just a fetish, it has no real-world importance.

I'm not judging having a fetish though. My fetishes are (hardened) titanium, sapphire, and (relative) rarity.

I don't think the watch you want exists. But what is stopping you from starting a microbrand that makes a 500m homage? It might still be cheaper than any mint vintage Citizen diver ;-)

VCW made his dream watch: VCW & Pook - because we dream - Vintage Citizen Watches

And the guys that made/will make the watch for him already have this Citizen inspired diver ready to go:








KOMPRESSOR Wkr03003 Limited - official.pookwatches.com

And they made this custom design for a paying customer ;-)








Pook Limited edition by Pacu - official.pookwatches.com


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## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> How should a watch perform accuracy-wise? For most people accuracy is just a fetish, it has no real-world importance.
> 
> I'm not judging having a fetish though. My fetishes are (hardened) titanium, sapphire, and (relative) rarity.
> 
> I don't think the watch you want exists. But what is stopping you from starting a microbrand that makes a 500m homage? It might still be cheaper than any mint vintage Citizen diver ;-)
> 
> VCW made his dream watch: VCW & Pook - because we dream - Vintage Citizen Watches
> 
> And the guys that made/will make the watch for him already have this Citizen inspired diver ready to go:
> View attachment 15900353
> 
> KOMPRESSOR Wkr03003 Limited - official.pookwatches.com
> 
> And they made this custom design for a paying customer ;-)
> View attachment 15900357
> 
> Pook Limited edition by Pacu - official.pookwatches.com


you're probably right there, mine is just a "fetish"...or is it? I mean, look at what the guys at Seiko have been doing ever since the inception of the brand: their quest for the ultimate accuracy is something to be beheld, really (think Grand Seiko hi beat calibers and the incredible Spring Drive technology). 
I value accuracy, materials and rarity as well, so you're not alone there. 
What i was asking was what to expect from a watch that's almost 50 years old, though in mint condition, and does it even make any sense to buy such an "old" watch with an old automatic caliber? 
Perhaps i expressed myself in the wrong way. 
I am familiar with those watches you linked, but i've had more than my share of failures with "microbrand" watches so i now steer very clear of those...


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## CitizenPromaster

I have just bought a few vintage watches that are in transit, and right now I only have a 1967 Citizen with a simple handwound Homer movement. I don't know if and when it was serviced last, but it runs about +- 12 seconds/day, as good as many modern Citizen automatics. I think most people consider +- 1 minute/day good enough for a vintage watch that is not a chronometer, but unfortunately I rarely see people discussing the accuracy of their vintage Citizen (even on Sweephand's website), so I have no idea what you can expect, sorry ;-)


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## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I have just bought a few vintage watches that are in transit, and right now I only have a 1967 Citizen with a simple handwound Homer movement. I don't know if and when it was serviced last, but it runs about +- 12 seconds/day, as good as many modern Citizen automatics. I think most people consider +- 1 minute/day good enough for a vintage watch that is not a chronometer, but unfortunately I rarely see people discussing the accuracy of their vintage Citizen (even on Sweephand's website), so I have no idea what you can expect, sorry ;-)


i am keeping my eye on this one: Citizen 150m 62-6198 | eBay
it says like new condition, it has the looks and size that i fancy, but i was wondering: isn't 2K + a little too much? 
I am not an expert in the field so i cannot tell whether or not that's a rare reference.


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## CitizenPromaster

There's rare and there's unavailable. Some classic cars are pretty rare, but when you visit Techno Classica Essen you will see 10 for sale for insane money.
Similarly, I get the feeling that some of the vintage Citizen divers may be rare, but they seem to come up for sale more than you would expect on Yahoo.
Like I illustrated in this thread: Citizen 52 - 0110 : The Flying Diver | WatchUSeek Watch Forums

Personally I am suspicious of anything old advertized as "mint" or "like new", and I wouldn't ever pay more than €500 for a watch, so I'm the wrong person to ask about value for money.

Also, he shows the watch in snow and other nonsense, but he can't take a picture of the caseback? Red flags everywhere...


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## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I would *literally kill *to get my hands on a NOS 52-0110!! I am looking for a go-everywhere do-everything Citizen right now (i even started a discussion about the subject, check it!)


So if I get you a NOS 52-0110 you will kill anyone I pick? That's cheaper than a typical hitman!


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## CitizenPromaster

Why not just buy this? It's a vintage watch, it can show it's age: CITIZEN 52-0110 Vintage DIVERS Watch - 150m | eBay

In my humble opinion the words "NOS" and "sensible" don't go together.


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## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> So if I get you a NOS 52-0110 you will kill anyone I pick? That's cheaper than a typical hitman!


first show me the goods, then i'll be at your service ;-)


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## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Why not just buy this? It's a vintage watch, it can show it's age: CITIZEN 52-0110 Vintage DIVERS Watch - 150m | eBay
> 
> In my humble opinion the words "NOS" and "sensible" don't go together.


I see what you mean there and i agree, maybe i just started this thread on a wrong assumption. 
Or maybe, in a utopian world, i could buy this: Citizen Nero 43 mm proveniente da Giappone, Otsu-shi | Chrono24 
have it fully restored to its original glory and wear it and enjoy it!


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## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I see what you mean there and i agree, maybe i just started this thread on a wrong assumption.
> Or maybe, in a utopian world, i could buy this: Citizen Nero 43 mm proveniente da Giappone, Otsu-shi | Chrono24
> have it fully restored to its original glory and wear it and enjoy it!


In this Utopian world Citizen themselves should offer restoration services to clients who are willing to spend the cash. Sadly, in reality they are more interested in selling new watches, and even sending a 10 year old watch to a service center ends in disappointment for most people.


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## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> first show me the goods, then i'll be at your service ;-)


Cosa Nostra confirmed ;-)


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## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> In this Utopian world Citizen themselves should offer restoration services to clients who are willing to spend the cash. Sadly, in reality they are more interested in selling new watches, and even sending a 10 year old watch to a service center ends in disappointment for most people.


Agreed. Too bad they're only pushing new releases, which i find frankly unnerving. How is it that i cannot bring myself to like any contemporary Citizen model as much as i like vintage ones? 
Food for thought.


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## Dr.Detroit

Is it me or is it difficult to get excited about just about any newer Citizen release as of late? Even this: 








fails to impress me. 
Where did the late 60's and 70's Citizen divers go?


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## rob3691

One of my very first dive watches and still running like a champ! You might be able to find a nice used one out there.


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## Dr.Detroit

rob3691 said:


> One of my very first dive watches and still running like a champ! You might be able to find a nice used one out there.
> 
> View attachment 15904843


That's a nice piece indeed and very well kept, my compliments. 
It's not exactly my cup of tea, the hands are certainly peculiar, almost reminiscent of a Seiko Monster's hands. 
As for myself, i prefer to wait for a NOS 52 0110 - will i ever find one? 
Also a Leopard would do ;-)


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## CitizenPromaster

Looks like Citizen just answered your prayers. "Only" a 8204, but if you won't settle for this, you better keep dreaming ;-)








NY0125-83E: CITIZEN | Citizen Watch Official Site









NY0125-08W: CITIZEN | シチズンウオッチ オフィシャルサイト


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## CitizenPromaster

And some more pics


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## CitizenPromaster

How much more re-issue can you get?


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## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> And some more pics
> View attachment 15913340
> 
> View attachment 15913341


This is close...but, again, no cigar. I know i am being overly pesky on this one, but, as it stands and when push comes to shove, i must admit that the Seiko's re-interpretation divers of the 62MAS variety offer a lot more watch per buck: better movement (though accuracy-wise it still leaves a lot to be desired, power reserve is awesome) better finishing and are more aesthetically faithful, though slightly different, to the original. 
I am talking about the latest releases of the SPB range - maybe not the best to talk about Seiko watches on the Citizen forum, but that's just me.
Oh well, i guess i'll just keep on dreaming ;-)


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## CitizenPromaster

Hey, I wouldn't want you to buy anything less than what makes you perfectly happy, but I don't know about calling you a die-hard Citizen fan... Die-hard fans usually are less picky! (cough Apple cough)


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## VincentG

That NY0125 is the bomb!
A Citizen diver that often gets overlooked is the Excaliber BN0100, it wears very small for it's size and it is a tough and durable tool watch that is thin enough to slip under a shirt cuff. I gave one to my son when he was a cadet candidate, hoping it would make it through orientation and at least part of his four years at the Academy, it did that and more. It has now been his nighttime watch while on the bridge for almost 4 additional years at sea and not showing any signs of being worse for the wear. Quite a value in a reliable tool watch for those that do not want a huge hunk of metal on their wrist. (not my pic, nor his)


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## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Hey, I wouldn't want you to buy anything less than what makes you perfectly happy, but I don't know about calling you a die-hard Citizen fan... Die-hard fans usually are less picky! (cough Apple cough)


you're totally right! Now i am starting to believe it myself, i probably titled the thread that way hoping it would be more "catchy" and get more people involved...but if i am being brutally honest here, i think i prefer Seiko. 
But Citizen has always had a special place in my heart: my first ever watch was a Citizen digital and it was gifted to me by my dad, so that's probably the reason why i refer to myself as a "die-hard" fan, even though i am starting to realize that that's not the case.


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## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> but if i am being brutally honest here, i think i prefer Seiko.


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## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> View attachment 15913422











take your chances... ;-)


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## brandon\

Dante80 said:


> Or this (for auto)?


I'd recommend against that watch. I just bought one from Amazon last week. I sent it back the next day.

- The rotor is LOUD. I've had plenty of other Miyota 8000s and none were this loud. I'm guessing it was the Ti case&#8230; maybe. Does Ti insulate sound less than steel?

- The bezel is hot trash. It's mushy and loose. I don't mind 60-click bezels, but this one was terrible.

- The lume on the indexes was weak and applied thinly.

- And a very common malady with Citizen watches is a small crown. And this one also had a too-small crown.

This watch is great in pics and on paper, but it's a pretty weak showing from Citizen.


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## brandon\

Dr.Detroit said:


> Is it me or is it difficult to get excited about just about any newer Citizen release as of late? Even this:
> View attachment 15904220
> 
> fails to impress me.
> Where did the late 60's and 70's Citizen divers go?


Well, if we're being honest, that's gaudy as f*ck.


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## Dr.Detroit

brandon\ said:


> Well, if we're being honest, that's gaudy as f*ck.


My words exaclty!


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## Robbie_roy

Hey Dr.Detroit, I definitely agree about how a lot of modern Citizens are over the top.

It's strange ... I might like a greater percentage of Seikos, appearance-wise, but they often have little details or odd choices that I don't like -- like how the SNA411 has that polished, split center link or how the SKX's bezel is completely flat.

I won't like as many Citizen models in comparison, but when I _do _find one I like, they seem to nail the details. Finishing and other things better than comparable Seikos. So it's hard to pick which brand I actually like more. The Citizens are getting the wrist time, though ; )

Those 62MAS issues honestly look great. Limiting to automatic Citizens might be a tough one, since Eco-Drive is Citizen's bread and butter IMO. You might just want to get that SPB Seiko you like and then keep your eye out for an Eco-Drive Citizen that has the right looks, if you're not completely against quartz.


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## Dr.Detroit

Robbie_roy said:


> Hey Dr.Detroit, I definitely agree about how a lot of modern Citizens are over the top.
> 
> It's strange ... I might like a greater percentage of Seikos, appearance-wise, but they often have little details or odd choices that I don't like -- like how the SNA411 has that polished, split center link or how the SKX's bezel is completely flat.
> 
> I won't like as many Citizen models in comparison, but when I _do _find one I like, they seem to nail the details. Finishing and other things better than comparable Seikos. So it's hard to pick which brand I actually like more. The Citizens are getting the wrist time, though ; )
> 
> Those 62MAS issues honestly look great. Limiting to automatic Citizens might be a tough one, since Eco-Drive is Citizen's bread and butter IMO. You might just want to get that SPB Seiko you like and then keep your eye out for an Eco-Drive Citizen that has the right looks, if you're not completely against quartz.


Very nicely explained dear Robbie Roy. The issue with Seiko is that they would cut corners on the majority of their mid-tier watches, as you've said it yourself, whereas Citizen's do seem to be more consistent. 
But, as i was saying, it's hard to get excited about Citizen modern releases, they are almost "toyish" looking, if you know what i mean: others are just plain outrageous, IMO. But a good model would crop up every now and again, and they are solid. 
I remember Jeff MacMahon addressed this topic in one of his videos: his contention is that the guys at Citizen, they would feed the watch predator's appetite a lot better than Seiko's because of their better finishing on lower-tier models; Seiko's on the other hand has the edge when it comes to proper re-issues or re-interpretation watches, but the better-made watches are still too expensive and approaching Rolex/Omega territory, so the competition is fierce and, honestly, unfair. 
Did any of this make any sense?


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## Robbie_roy

Dr.Detroit said:


> I remember Jeff MacMahon addressed this topic in one of his videos:
> Did any of this make any sense?


Absolutely! That sounds like an accurate summary of the two, not that I own any of either brand's higher-end items! Thanks for the heads up on Jeff's video there, not a channel I'd heard about before but I'll be sure to check that out.


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## CharlotteIllini88

Dr.Detroit said:


> Very nicely explained dear Robbie Roy. The issue with Seiko is that they would cut corners on the majority of their mid-tier watches, as you've said it yourself, whereas Citizen's do seem to be more consistent.
> But, as i was saying, it's hard to get excited about Citizen modern releases, *they are almost "toyish" looking, if you know what i mean: others are just plain outrageous*, IMO. But a good model would crop up every now and again, and they are solid.
> I remember Jeff MacMahon addressed this topic in one of his videos: his contention is that the guys at Citizen, they would feed the watch predator's appetite a lot better than Seiko's because of their better finishing on lower-tier models; Seiko's on the other hand has the edge when it comes to proper re-issues or re-interpretation watches, but the better-made watches are still too expensive and approaching Rolex/Omega territory, so the competition is fierce and, honestly, unfair.
> Did any of this make any sense?


A lot of modern Citizens being "over the top" design wise is what led me to recently pull the trigger on the below Promaster Eco-Drive 151 diver. For Citizen, it's a much more subdued design (yet not boring), hearkening back to some of their dive watches from the '80s. Honestly, it flies under the radar so much that you almost don't notice it. The watch hasn't been delivered to me yet (maybe later this week via FedEx), but it gets pretty good reviews as a great value (sub $200 on eBay).


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## Dr.Detroit

CharlotteIllini88 said:


> A lot of modern Citizens being "over the top" design wise is what led me to recently pull the trigger on the below Promaster Eco-Drive 151 diver. For Citizen, it's a much more subdued design (yet not boring), hearkening back to some of their dive watches from the '80s. Honestly, it flies under the radar so much that you almost don't notice it. The watch hasn't been delivered to me yet (maybe later this week via FedEx), but it gets pretty good reviews as a great value (sub $200 on eBay).
> 
> View attachment 15916416


I am conisering this one myself, though i generally prefer automatics, but with Citizen it's all about their Eco Drive tech which is hassle-free and ecofriendly, so what's not to like? 
And yet, it's still too large for my very small wrist at 43mm; the crown at 4 o'clock, though undeniably comfortable, is not exactly to my liking... 
Oh, if only Citizen would come up with a re-interpretation of their "white whale" awesome Chronomaster 500m chronometer: now the Chronomaster line is exclusively quartz. 
They should really come up with a modern take of that iconic diver, with a smaller case size though, no more than 40mm - is that even possible?


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## Dr.Detroit

Doesn't Citizen have something like this: 


https://k8q7r7a2.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Seiko-Prospex-Diver-SLA017-1965-Seiko-62Mas-6217-Reedition-4.jpg


----------



## VincentG

Dr.Detroit said:


> Doesn't Citizen have something like this:
> 
> 
> https://k8q7r7a2.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Seiko-Prospex-Diver-SLA017-1965-Seiko-62Mas-6217-Reedition-4.jpg


If they do please post a link.


----------



## CharlotteIllini88

Dr.Detroit said:


> I am conisering this one myself, though i generally prefer automatics, but with Citizen it's all about their Eco Drive tech which is hassle-free and ecofriendly, so what's not to like?
> And yet, it's still too large for my very small wrist at 43mm; the crown at 4 o'clock, though undeniably comfortable, is not exactly to my liking...
> Oh, if only Citizen would come up with a re-interpretation of their "white whale" awesome Chronomaster 500m chronometer: now the Chronomaster line is exclusively quartz.
> They should really come up with a modern take of that iconic diver, with a smaller case size though, no more than 40mm - is that even possible?


Are you sure you've looked hard enough at the automatic NY0040 and "Fugu" collections from Citizen? Based on what you're looking for, those seem like no-brainer options for you. Classic Citizen diver design cues (nothing over the top), and I believe both collections are in the 42mm range and can dress up if needed. The Fugu series in particular has some really cool color schemes.


----------



## CharlotteIllini88

Dr.Detroit said:


> Doesn't Citizen have something like this:
> 
> 
> https://k8q7r7a2.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Seiko-Prospex-Diver-SLA017-1965-Seiko-62Mas-6217-Reedition-4.jpg


Correct me if I'm wrong, but post #37 is about as close to this Seiko as you could possibly find from Citizen. Damn near identical, really. I really think between this, Fugu, and NY0040, you would have plenty of choices and be very happy with a purchase - one that could be very affordable (Fugu, NY0040 especially) while also staying true to the look and feel of the watch(es) you remember your dad having. Just my opinion, of course.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

CharlotteIllini88 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but post #37 is about as close to this Seiko as you could possibly find from Citizen. Damn near identical, really. I really think between this, Fugu, and NY0040, you would have plenty of choices and be very happy with a purchase - one that could be very affordable (Fugu, NY0040 especially) while also staying true to the look and feel of the watch(es) you remember your dad having. Just my opinion, of course.


Dr.Detroit is actually the son of a famous princess ;-)








And this guy in the spaghetti top is his dad. His mother's genes won though lol.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Doesn't Citizen have something like this:
> 
> 
> https://k8q7r7a2.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Seiko-Prospex-Diver-SLA017-1965-Seiko-62Mas-6217-Reedition-4.jpg


----------



## CharlotteIllini88

CitizenPromaster said:


> Dr.Detroit is actually the son of a famous princess ;-)
> View attachment 15917275
> 
> And this guy in the spaghetti top is his dad. His mother's genes won though lol.
> View attachment 15917294


I'll be honest, looking at those Fugus is making me tempted to get one.... and I really don't need another watch! The black with blue and black with subtle gold accents look great. Either of those could be worn with dress attire.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Dr.Detroit is actually the son of a famous princess ;-)
> View attachment 15917275
> 
> And this guy in the spaghetti top is his dad. His mother's genes won though lol.
> View attachment 15917294


You know what dear CitizenPromaster guy, i don't know you and you most certainly don't know me, so i would kindly ask you to leave me at peace. Discourtesy is unspeakably ugly to me. 
Don't be this inelegant, if you please.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CharlotteIllini88 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but post #37 is about as close to this Seiko as you could possibly find from Citizen. Damn near identical, really. I really think between this, Fugu, and NY0040, you would have plenty of choices and be very happy with a purchase - one that could be very affordable (Fugu, NY0040 especially) while also staying true to the look and feel of the watch(es) you remember your dad having. Just my opinion, of course.


That's close enough al right, still though, when you look at the specs, it's a tough one to swallow: the movement leaves a lot to be desired. As for those Fugu editions, they are fine i guess. 
I just wished Citizen had a little more up their sleeve, if you know what i mean. 
I'll keep waiting, hoping they will come up with something sensible.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> You know what dear CitizenPromaster guy, i don't know you and you most certainly don't know me, so i would kindly ask you to leave me at peace. Discourtesy is unspeakably ugly to me.
> Don't be this inelegant, if you please.


I guess you were last in line when they handed out a sense of humor.
Perhaps in exchange for my courtesy you could stop wasting people's time with impossible requests and rhetorical questions?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Ziptie is usually at least twice as patient as I am, and he tapped out on page 1, while I continued to try to please the unpleaseable. But you know what, I will bow out gracefully. Good luck with your search!
PS If you are terminally ill and the perfect watch is your dying wish, I do apologize! Otherwise, please lighten up and enjoy this forum!
PPS I sometimes get gracefully and facetiously confused. My bad ;-)


----------



## CharlotteIllini88

Dr.Detroit said:


> That's close enough al right, still though, when you look at the specs, it's a tough one to swallow: the movement leaves a lot to be desired. As for those Fugu editions, they are fine i guess.
> I just wished Citizen had a little more up their sleeve, if you know what i mean.
> I'll keep waiting, hoping they will come up with something sensible.


I didn't look at the specs for that new model; don't even know the price of it. But I was assuming value-wise that it's right there with Seiko's recent 62MAS reissue. I could be wrong about that.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I guess you were last in line when they handed out a sense of humor.
> Perhaps in exchange for my courtesy you could stop wasting people's time with impossible requests and rhetorical questions?


I beg your pardon, am i really wasting people's time with my quote, unquote, "impossible requests and rhetorical questions"? Am i missing something here, or isn't the whole purpose of a forum to, well, encourage members' participation and discussion?
Perhaps i should never have started this discussion then, since i am being labelled something akin to a nincompoop, a megalomaniac with no sense of humour and a knack for getting on people's nerves.



CitizenPromaster said:


> while I continued to try to please the unpleaseable


frankly, i don't believe you suffer from the burden of having to satisfy my silly requests (?), but if i should be terribly mistaken here, i ask for your forgiveness!
That said though, please don't bow out: i am really starting to enjoy this ;-)
I guess i could use more frivolousness in my life!
No hard feelings, CitizenPromaster, ok?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CharlotteIllini88 said:


> I didn't look at the specs for that new model; don't even know the price of it. But I was assuming value-wise that it's right there with Seiko's recent 62MAS reissue. I could be wrong about that.


I beg to differ. I've never owned a 62MAS re-interpretation myself (let alone the reissue!), but from what i can gather Seikos have the edge over Citizen in the mid-tier market segment: mind you, i am talking about automatics here. 
On the other hand though, the mileage may vary. Let me explain. 
A friend of mine owns a Turtle with the 4R35 movement and it's a nightmare, he tells me: not that he's not happy with the watch, it's that the movement is that bad: it looses several minutes a week and it often stops, his words exactly. 
Now, the latest re-interpretations of the 62MAS do have a supposedly better movement, the 6R15 and 6R35 respectively. 
But if you look at models like the SBDC051 it's immediately evident that Citizen is lagging behind. 
Perhaps i should have been clearer right from the first in this discussion: i wanted to know whether there was a Citizen watch that's comparable to the Seiko 62MAS reissue (ref. SLA017, high end) but apparently there isn't. 
I stand corrected.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I beg your pardon, am i really wasting people's time with my, *quote on quote*, "impossible requests and rhetorical questions"? Am i missing something here, or isn't the whole purpose of a forum to, well, encourage members' participation and discussion?
> Perhaps i should never have started this discussion then, since i am being labelled something akin to a nincompoop, a megalomaniac with no sense of humour and a knack for getting on people's nerves.
> 
> frankly, i don't believe you suffer from the burden of having to satisfy my silly requests (?), but if i should be terribly mistaken here, i ask for your forgiveness!
> That said though, please don't bow out: i am really starting to enjoy this ;-)
> I guess i could use more frivolousness in my life!
> *No hard feelings, CitizenPromaster, ok?*


I'm just having fun, man. Are you really Italian? I'm quite impressed with your English, really, I'm not joking. You could easily pass for a native speaker, and even the small mistakes you make could also be made by a native speaker, like the one explained here (copied from the internet):
It's "*quote unquote*" if you are uttering a *quotation* word for word. At the end of the uttering, you say the word "*unquote*" to indicate the *quotation* stops there. A "*quote on quote*" is strictly a mishearing or mispronunciation of "*unquote*".


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm just having fun, man. Are you really Italian? I'm quite impressed with your English, really, I'm not joking. You could easily pass for a native speaker, and even the small mistakes you make could also be made by a native speaker, like the one explained here (copied from the internet):
> It's "*quote unquote*" if you are uttering a *quotation* word for word. At the end of the uttering, you say the word "*unquote*" to indicate the *quotation* stops there. A "*quote on quote*" is strictly a mishearing or mispronunciation of "*unquote*".


I am, in fact, Italian. Many thanks for your kind words, i really appreciate them. Your English is nigh-on perfect too. And, by the by, i would have edited my latest reply for i noticed the mistake, which was a typo (sometimes i type too fast and i don't proof-read, alas!), and, honestly, i should not have used that idiom for its more appropriate usage is in speech. 
Glad i've found someone whose written (and, i daresay, spoken) English is very curated - that's an inherently added value to any discussion and speaks volumes about the high-profile of some of the forum's members (i am looking at you, CitizenPromaster ;-) 
I could work on my sense of humour more, though 😅


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I am, in fact, Italian. Many thanks for your kind words, i really appreciate them. Your English is nigh-on perfect too. And, by the by, i would have edited my latest reply for i noticed the mistake, which was a typo (sometimes i type too fast and i don't proof-read, alas!), and, honestly, i should not have used that idiom for its more appropriate usage is in speech.
> Glad i've found someone whose written (and, i daresay, spoken) English is very curated - that's an inherently added value to any discussion and speaks volumes about the high-profile of some of the forum's members (i am looking at you, CitizenPromaster ;-)
> I could work on my sense of humour more, though 😅


Thank you for your compliment. I have a Dutch accent though, because I can't be bothered to hide it.
I guess earlier it was just your inner Italian macho poking through ;-)








How perfect would a vintage Citizen diver look on his wrist though????


----------



## CitizenPromaster

By the way, I saw you inquiring at VCW about a NOS watch. I think he is a little tired of all the messages he gets, he just shuts them down really quickly without really reading them properly. I can't really blame him though, he must have had thousands already and more come in every day.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Thank you for your compliment. I have a Dutch accent though, because I can't be bothered to hide it.
> I guess earlier it was just your inner Italian macho poking through ;-)
> View attachment 15918613
> 
> How perfect would a vintage Citizen diver look on his wrist though????


Believe you me, my dear friend, i am nowhere near the stereotype macho man for which Italians tend to be typecasted. 


CitizenPromaster said:


> How perfect would a vintage Citizen diver look on his wrist though????


Indeed, it would be the perfect combo 
I am keeping my eye on some very nice (IMO, at least) vintage Citizen divers on Chrono24 but the prices are scary...here, have a look:
the Leopard:





Acquista orologi Citizen su Chrono24


Quanto costano gli orologi Citizen? Quale modello fa per te? Trova l'orologio dei tuoi sogni su Chrono24!




www.chrono24.it




and the rarer Crystal Date: 





Acquista orologi Citizen su Chrono24


Quanto costano gli orologi Citizen? Quale modello fa per te? Trova l'orologio dei tuoi sogni su Chrono24!




www.chrono24.it




personally, i struggle with these...my inner, more reasonable self is telling me neither of the two is worth it, especially when there options like this: 





Acquista Seiko Prospex Diver Limited Edition SLA017 | Chrono24SLA017


Seiko SLA017 nuovi e usati a prezzi scontati sulla più grande piattaforma per gli orologi di lusso. Originali garantiti ✓ Commercianti verificati ✓




www.chrono24.it




when comparing and contrasting the offerings, the answer should be a no-brainer. 
Still though, my more romantic self is luring me into a false sense of security... 
What would you do?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> By the way, I saw you inquiring at VCW about a NOS watch. I think he is a little tired of all the messages he gets, he just shuts them down really quickly without really reading them properly. I can't really blame him though, he must have had thousands already and more come in every day.


Well i guess i was one of the happy few then, because he actually did reply. Lucky me ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Well i guess i was one of the happy few then, because he actually did reply. Lucky me ;-)


He did reply, but he ignored your question about the accuracy.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I'm a cheapskate, so I would never buy an expensive vintage watch. But as my buddy @aafanatic puts it:


aafanatic said:


> You are gonna *buy them all* eventually, so it doesn't matter which one you buy first. Just start with the one that gets your heart beating faster, the Gods of WIS-dom will do the rest.
> PS say goodbye to your disposable income ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

That re-issue Seiko is HOW MUCH?!?!?!! I am speechless...


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm a cheapskate, so I would never buy an expensive vintage watch. But as my buddy @aafanatic puts it:


I fear that the inevitable conclusion...but not if i manage to rekindle a spark in my decaying brain and re-think the whole thing. 
I guess you were right from the first: i am just too darn demanding! 
Or perhaps i like to think of myself as the "one watch guy" who's perfectly happy and is done searching. A mere utopia, something illusory. 
In a way, i would like higher-end watches to be smoke and mirrors but somehow i cannot ignore them and will eventually fall prey of their charm. 
I could be perfectly happy with either of those Fugu editions or with an SBDC051, and yet i'd still find myself wanting the "better" stuff. 
Yep, that SLA017 is ludicrous. Still though... 
I am just rambling here. Forgive me.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

As we say in Dutch: having it is the end of wanting it. You can't quench desire, and besides the hunt is the most fun part. That's how many of us feel anyway.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> As we say in Dutch: having it is the end of wanting it. You can't quench desire, and besides the hunt is the most fun part. That's how many of us feel anyway.


Perhaps i don't want to quench it at all! Words of wisdom my dear friend, i couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I've hunted certain Citizens for over a year now, I have found them, and bought a few I wasn't looking for, but those weren't expensive.
Just keep browsing Yahoo Japan Auction and even Mercari, who knows what will pop up! It is very time consuming though, but it's a nice hobby, and searching for watches is always cheaper than buying them!
I don't think Chrono24 is the way to go though. That's where they end up with a huge markup after people have found them on Japanese websites for "reasonable" money.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I've hunted certain Citizens for over a year now, I have found them, and bought a few I wasn't looking for, but those weren't expensive.
> Just keep browsing Yahoo Japan Auction and even Mercari, who knows what will pop up! It is very time consuming though, but it's a nice hobby, and searching for watches is always cheaper than buying them!
> I don't think Chrono24 is the way to go though. That's where they end up with a huge markup after people have found them on Japanese websites for "reasonable" money.


just look at this: Citizen Nero 43 mm proveniente da Giappone, Otsu-shi | Chrono24
i think that pretty much sums it up! 
Thanks for the tips, i'll look into those sites and keep my eyes wide open ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> just look at this: Citizen Nero 43 mm proveniente da Giappone, Otsu-shi | Chrono24
> i think that pretty much sums it up!
> Thanks for the tips, i'll look into those sites and keep my eyes wide open ;-)


Hooray for capitalism ;-)
There's a thread to guide those who dare venture into Japan: Buying Citizen watches on Yahoo! Japan Auction (via Buyee and such) | WatchUSeek Watch Forums


----------



## CharlotteIllini88

Dr.Detroit said:


> I beg to differ. I've never owned a 62MAS re-interpretation myself (let alone the reissue!), but from what i can gather Seikos have the edge over Citizen in the mid-tier market segment: mind you, i am talking about automatics here.
> On the other hand though, the mileage may vary. Let me explain.
> A friend of mine owns a Turtle with the 4R35 movement and it's a nightmare, he tells me: not that he's not happy with the watch, it's that the movement is that bad: it looses several minutes a week and it often stops, his words exactly.
> Now, the latest re-interpretations of the 62MAS do have a supposedly better movement, the 6R15 and 6R35 respectively.
> But if you look at models like the SBDC051 it's immediately evident that Citizen is lagging behind.
> Perhaps i should have been clearer right from the first in this discussion: i wanted to know whether there was a Citizen watch that's comparable to the Seiko 62MAS reissue (ref. SLA017, high end) but apparently there isn't.
> I stand corrected.


I've had a different experience with the Seiko 4R35. I have a Turtle that's a year old with it, plus a Seiko SRP637 with 4R35 - had that one for five years now and it's been great. Either way, I don't know much about Citizen automatics or the Seiko 6R movements; hopefully the latter are good, because I plan to get a Captain Willard at some point. As for Citizen, I stick with Eco-Drive because I want the grab and go ease.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CharlotteIllini88 said:


> I've had a different experience with the Seiko 4R35. I have a Turtle that's a year old with it, plus a Seiko SRP637 with 4R35 - had that one for five years now and it's been great. Either way, I don't know much about Citizen automatics or the Seiko 6R movements; hopefully the latter are good, because I plan to get a Captain Willard at some point. As for Citizen, I stick with Eco-Drive because I want the grab and go ease.


I'd say pull the trigger on that Captain Willard, as i've heard and read nothing but positive reviews on the watch and how comfortable it is. The 6R35 movement benefits from an enhanced 70hr power reserve. 
I myself am contemplating whether or not i should give it a shot and buy the SBDC051 which i actually prefer over the newer models, even though they feature a smaller case design and have the upgraded 6R35 movement, and yet i still like the former better. 
But perhaps i am deviating from the topic, we were talking Citizens here, but in all honesty it's hard to pick any of their newer releases, at least for me, and the automatics just don't measure up with the Seikos, IMO.


----------



## CharlotteIllini88

Dr.Detroit said:


> I'd say pull the trigger on that Captain Willard, as i've heard and read nothing but positive reviews on the watch and how comfortable it is. The 6R35 movement benefits from an enhanced 70hr power reserve.
> I myself am contemplating whether or not i should give it a shot and buy the SBDC051 which i actually prefer over the newer models, even though they feature a smaller case design and have the upgraded 6R35 movement, and yet i still like the former better.
> But perhaps i am deviating from the topic, we were talking Citizens here, but in all honesty it's hard to pick any of their newer releases, at least for me, and the automatics just don't measure up with the Seikos, IMO.


Yeah, I'll get the Willard at some point, but no rush. It's still new and will be around for awhile, and maybe the prices will drop a little. Besides, I have the above Citizen blue diver in route now, and I like to space watch purchases out a bit.

Sounds like you have something specific in mind that Citizen just isn't offering at the moment. I still contend that the Fugu could be a good option for you, but sounds like it's not quite there for you.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CharlotteIllini88 said:


> Yeah, I'll get the Willard at some point, but no rush. It's still new and will be around for awhile, and maybe the prices will drop a little. Besides, I have the above Citizen blue diver in route now, and I like to space watch purchases out a bit.
> 
> Sounds like you have something specific in mind that Citizen just isn't offering at the moment. I still contend that the Fugu could be a good option for you, but sounds like it's not quite there for you.


You're absolutely right, i might need to sort out my priorities and really rationalize. Who knows, i might just as well end up buying no Citizen or Seiko at all...


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> You're absolutely right, i might need to sort out my priorities and really rationalize. Who knows, i might just as well end up buying no Citizen or Seiko at all...


Like an Omega Planet Ocean ref. 232.30.42.21.01.001 or an Ollech & Wajs Navichron S or a Kazimon Nautilus II Bronze??? ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Like an Omega Planet Ocean ref. 232.30.42.21.01.001 or an Ollech & Wajs Navichron S or a Kazimon Nautilus II Bronze??? ;-)


I didn't realise you were keeping track of my delirious posts!
Are you stalking me CitizenPromaster?? 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I didn't realise you were keeping track of my delirious posts!
> Are you stalking me CitizenPromaster?? 🤣🤣🤣


I prefer to call it anthropology ;-)


----------



## VincentG

A thread like this being deemed a success would be where all of the time the other users have spent on the query and their contributions to the thread are rewarded with an actual purchase and subsequent "in the mail" post and then wrist picks. These threads can be so much fun, almost as fun as buying a watch yourself. One that devolves into such a lack of success as this one has, get's an iggie, thank God they exist.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Well Dr.Detroit could at least share a photo of his Omega of 20 years ;-)



Dr.Detroit said:


> This is a very interesting topic of discussion. I myself have the same predicament, for as of right now i'd like to buy a good watch - i've owned an Omega Seamaster Professional 300m for the past 20 years and never looked back, but now it's time i moved on and appreciate another; that watch was an "impulse buy", even though it had it on my radar ever since i first saw it in Goldeneye; now that i've ammassed a bit more knowledge about the watch industry i am cautious before i put my money into anything - and this new trait has invariably tainted the enthusiasm and joy that i once had about watches.
> The way i see it, i'd prefer "money talks" was out of the equation when buying a watch, unfortunately, when it comes down to it, one must reconcile the ideal with reality. Tough to swallow when put it like this, but sadly true.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I myself am looking to delve more into this thread. I am on the hunt for the most accurate Citizen auto movement, past and present.
> Who comes to the rescue?


Let me come to your rescue ;-) You've done your research, and you must already know about Sweephand's website, so you've probably read about the Chronometers/Chrono Masters/Leopards and of course the Glorious. I don't know of more accurate past automatics than those. The specs Citizen used are here in case you missed them.
As for the present, you can read in the New and Upcoming Citizens thread about the new Caliber 0200.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

VincentG said:


> A thread like this being deemed a success would be where all of the time the other users have spent on the query and their contributions to the thread are rewarded with an actual purchase and subsequent "in the mail" post and then wrist picks. These threads can be so much fun, almost as fun as buying a watch yourself. One that devolves into such a lack of success as this one has, get's an iggie, thank God they exist.
> [/QUOTE


I am most certainly missing some context here, but you may just as well ingore my thread altogether. I am a first-timer on such a forum and am by no means an expert in the field, just a mere watch enthusiast, pass me the expression. 


CitizenPromaster said:


> Like an Omega Planet Ocean ref. 232.30.42.21.01.001 or an Ollech & Wajs Navichron S or a Kazimon Nautilus II Bronze??? ;-)


well, at least this proves that i am a genuine watch fanatic, though i need to clarify my thoughts and prioritize, no question.
As i've said on multiple occasions, i am entangled in this predicament: getting either a mid-tier Seiko diver (now that i know Citizen is lacking in that department), or a so-called boutique diver (Kazimon Nautilus in trendy bronze), or perhaps a chronograph (with a 500m depth rating) from the resurgent Ollech & Wajs....or just skip ahead to the next section and enter the luxury watch realm with that Omega Planet Ocean.
First things first though: i have one piece that in my "collection" that needs to go, but WUS wouldn't let me post the ad, so.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Well Dr.Detroit could at least share a photo of his Omega of 20 years ;-)


It's just an Omega Seamaster Professional 300m ref. 2531.80.00 , aka the "Bond watch" (Rolex fans don't hold this against me!); i purchased it new in 2000 and never had it serviced. It's been a while since i've worn it, it begs for a service, i can hear the movement grating, literally, and, last time i checked, it was losing approximately 15-20 mins a week! 
That said, i think i probably won't get it service: i've worn it pretty much incessantly during the first decade of the 2000s as it was my daily watch, but now it's different: i don't feel that special connection with it any more, i am afraid the magic is gone, possibly forever (not to mention that it kept sliding down my forearm, and i had all the removable links removed and didn't want to put it on a nato). 
I doubt anyone would be interested to see that...


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> It's just an Omega Seamaster Professional 300m ref. 2531.80.00 , aka the "Bond watch" (Rolex fans don't hold this against me!); i purchased it new in 2000 and never had it serviced. It's been a while since i've worn it, it begs for a service, i can hear the movement grating, literally, and, last time i checked, it was losing approximately 15-20 mins a week!
> That said, i think i probably won't get it service: i've worn it pretty much incessantly during the first decade of the 2000s as it was my daily watch, but now it's different: i don't feel that special connection with it any more, i am afraid the magic is gone, possibly forever (not to mention that it kept sliding down my forearm, and i had all the removable links removed and didn't want to put it on a nato).
> I doubt anyone would be interested to see that...


Wow never serviced. You definitely need an Eco-Drive in your life!
Don't doubt, just post it ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Wow never serviced. You definitely need an Eco-Drive in your life!
> Don't doubt, just post it ;-)


I'll get around to it sooner or later. Wait for it!


----------



## cary9719

Nothing beats the accuracy, technology and 'coolness' of the Satellite Wave collection. I've been wearing mine for over 2 years. It's the CC3000-89L.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

cary9719 said:


> Nothing beats the accuracy, technology and 'coolness' of the Satellite Wave collection. I've been wearing mine for over 2 years. It's the CC3000-89L.


Impressive though it is, it's not really my cup of tea and, honestly, to me it looks too much like any $100 Casio....no offence intended, of course!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Impressive though it is, it's not really my cup of tea and, honestly, to me it looks too much like any $100 Casio....no offence intended, of course!


Well you did set the bar pretty high for yourself with a watch that has a laser cutter!










By the way, according to the fandom wiki GoldenEye featured an Omega Seamaster 300M Quartz Professional model 2541.80.00. In later films he had the Omega Seamaster Professional 300M Chronometer model 2531.80.00.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Well you did set the bar pretty high for yourself with a watch that has a laser cutter!
> 
> View attachment 15921055
> 
> 
> By the way, according to the fandom wiki GoldenEye featured an Omega Seamaster 300M Quartz Professional model 2541.80.00. In later films he had the Omega Seamaster Professional 300M Chronometer model 2531.80.00.


And in fact i own the automatic version, the one with a built-in detonator: 








and the grappling hook: 








always handy 🤣🤣


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Well you did set the bar pretty high for yourself with a watch that has a laser cutter!
> 
> View attachment 15921055
> 
> 
> By the way, according to the fandom wiki GoldenEye featured an Omega Seamaster 300M Quartz Professional model 2541.80.00. In later films he had the Omega Seamaster Professional 300M Chronometer model 2531.80.00.


Oddly enough though, the ad for 1995's Goldeneye featured the automatic version as well:


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Those sneaky bastards! Well I guess they figured they were gonna sell more automatics than quartz watches...


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Impulse buy or not, I'm a bit surprised the James Bond marketing spoke to you! Or was something else going on?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Impulse buy or not, I'm a bit surprised the James Bond marketing spoke to you! Or was something else going on?


What can i tell you my friend, i was a little boy, and Goldeneye was my first Bond film, i remember i went to the theatre with my family to watch it and, as soon as i saw that watch, i was hooked. Go figure!


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Impulse buy or not


most definitely not an impulse buy: i had to wait 5 more years before i laid my hands on it, and it was a gift by my dad and grandfather, so it'll always hold a special place in my heart, that's why i probably will never sell it. 
Which begs the question: why not have it serviced then? 
Well, that's a whole different topic, it's complicated, hard to put it in words...


----------



## CitizenPromaster

You don’t strike me as the type that struggles to formulate a sentence ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

> i've owned an Omega Seamaster Professional 300m for the past 20 years and never looked back, but now it's time i moved on and appreciate another; that watch was an "impulse buy", even though it had it on my radar ever since i first saw it in Goldeneye





> most definitely not an impulse buy: i had to wait 5 more years before i laid my hands on it, and it was a gift by my dad and grandfather, so it'll always hold a special place in my heart, that's why i probably will never sell it.


Some might say you are contradicting yourself


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Some might say you are contradicting yourself


Ah, busted! You got me on that one, bravo! 
Anyway, if i might interject something here: what i actually meant with "impulse buy" was that, at the time i hadn't given any thought at the nitty-gritty that usually precede any new watch purchase: it was almost as if i was spellbound from the moment i first saw the watch, i was enamoured with it and didn't really care about the movement, the value proposition, the potential re-sale value and whatnot - it was much like a spur-of-the-moment thing, only difference being it took 5 years to happen.
Now things have changed: ever since then, and after the advent of the dedicated watch forums, i started delving more and more into the history of certain brands, started to do some research (though very basic) on movements and manufacture calibers, etc. - this was the other side of the coin which i totally ignored as a newbie. 
But, with this newly-ammassed knowledge, i've never been able to purchase any watch, with a few exceptions (which, by the way, were utterly terrible...), without taking all of the above into consideration. 
That's the reason why i am permanently "on the fence", undecided and can never make up my mind. That's why i am so hard to please, or to take any action, even. 
It seems like it takes the mind of a freakin' scientist to make a watch purchase in this day and age...
There, that's my contention on the subject. Sobering? Maybe. 
Perhaps i rave here.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Ah, busted! You got me on that one, bravo!
> Anyway, if i might interject something here: what i actually meant with "impulse buy" was that, at the time i hadn't given any thought at the nitty-gritty that usually precede any new watch purchase: it was almost as if i was spellbound from the moment i first saw the watch, i was enamoured with it and didn't really care about the movement, the value proposition, the potential re-sale value and whatnot - it was much like a spur-of-the-moment thing, only difference being it took 5 years to happen.
> Now things have changed: ever since then, and after the advent of the dedicated watch forums, i started delving more and more into the history of certain brands, started to do some research (though very basic) on movements and manufacture calibers, etc. - this was the other side of the coin which i totally ignored as a newbie.
> But, with this newly-ammassed knowledge, i've never been able to purchase any watch, with a few exceptions (which, by the way, were utterly terrible...), without taking all of the above into consideration.
> That's the reason why i am permanently "on the fence", undecided and can never make up my mind. That's why i am so hard to please, or to take any action, even.
> It seems like it takes the mind of a freakin' scientist to make a watch purchase in this day and age...
> There, that's my contention on the subject. Sobering? Maybe.
> Perhaps i rave here.


This is very insightful actually. It seems you are overrationalizing watch purchases, rather than just buying something you find beautiful or functional. Is that a good summary?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

In Dutch we have this phrase "iets kapot redeneren", which could be translated as "reasoning something to smithereens".
Too much reasoning ends up paralyzing you. Sometimes you just gotta act on passion, but should I have to say that to an Italian???? Or is the passionate Italian a false trope like the macho Italian?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> In Dutch we have this phrase "iets kapot redeneren", which could be translated as "reasoning something to smithereens".
> Too much reasoning ends up paralyzing you. Sometimes you just gotta act on passion, but should I have to say that to an Italian???? Or is the passionate Italian a false trope like the macho Italian?


As i've already told you, i am not your "typical Italian": the passionate, overly narcissistic nature of the common Italian is what i despise. Yep, you heard me. 


CitizenPromaster said:


> Too much reasoning ends up paralyzing you


I see what you mean there and i totally agree. The thing is, i tend to be a perfectionist, in just about all aspects of life; perfectionism is very dangerous, because if your fidelity to perfectionism is too high you never do anything; but that's my problem to solve, even though deep down i still think it'll be hard, very hard for me to comply...
If i were to buy a watch on a whim, it'd be the Omega Planet Ocean, love that watch and the enduring Bond connection (by the by: the Seamaster Professional and the Planet Ocean may seem unrelated at first glance, but upon closer inspection, they both debuted in a film directed by Martin Campbell, who in my opinion has the merit of having breathed new life into the franchise, but i digress).


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> This is very insightful actually. It seems you are overrationalizing watch purchases, rather than just buying something you find beautiful or functional. Is that a good summary?


Indeed it is!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Thanks for sharing about what makes you tick!


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Thanks for sharing about what makes you tick!


Anytime, i thoroughly enjoy your attentive replies. I realise i've gone way off topic here, so let me just make amends and say this: i've been pretty much into this watch: 








for a very long time; i just think that, for an everyday carry, this would be ideal: one-piece titanium case (with hard coating), Eco Drive movement (reliable and accurate, virtually maintenance free), proper tool watch, no-nonsense aesthetics (harking back to the Mark XI pilots watches of the past), great lume, 200m water-resistant, made in Japan. 
Before you say it, i know there have been other releases which closely resembled this "original" model (the Royal Marines' edition and the MontBell limited models) and yet somehow they wouldn't do it for me...
As Richard Brown puts it in this article: The Ray Mears Citizen Promaster Tough - Issue Number 001...
"there is something thoroughly uncompromising about the first design watches which were crafted to tackle G-Shock head on. " 
Spot on!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

It is hard to beat the original Tough, many share your sentiments! If I wasn’t into the Promaster Sky Pilot watches, these Promaster Land offerings would certainly be at the top of my list.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> It is hard to beat the original Tough, many share your sentiments! If I wasn't into the Promaster Sky Pilot watches, these Promaster Land offerings would certainly be at the top of my list.


I'll admit that the Citizen Promaster Sky Satellite Wave CC9025-51E is truly an outstanding piece, and this one: 


https://i1.wp.com/isochrono.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/citizen_satellite-wave_F990_1.jpg?fit=2000%2C1333&ssl=1


has always been my "guilty pleasure"! It's mesmerizing and truly revolutionary. 
But, but, but...: both are too extreme for me, not to mention that they are outrageously big and feature way too busy dials, the first one in particular.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> It is hard to beat the original Tough, many share your sentiments! If I wasn't into the Promaster Sky Pilot watches, these Promaster Land offerings would certainly be at the top of my list.


But, as i've told you: i think i've finally come to terms with what's on my radar right now, and it's this: 




i shall need to sell at least my Seiko Gen.1 chronograph first though, and it probably won't be enough, even...surprisingly and unexpectedly hard to sell that little quartz marvel.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I've bought (used) motorcycles for money that could instead buy "premium" watches, but I really can't get myself to spend thousands on a single watch. I'm not into Swiss brands, but I love the Tudor Pelagos, but I can buy 10 used "premium" Citizens for that money, and that makes me much happier!
I'm glad this thread has helped you to get your watch desires in focus though!


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> but I love the Tudor Pelagos


Check, awesome choice! Definitely in my top 5 list (Swiss luxury).


CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm glad this thread has helped you to get your watch desires in focus though!


That's largely due to the invaluable advice and chatty nature of a certain CitizenPromaster guy, perhaps you've heard of him ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

CitizenPromaster? Hmmm, yes, he's an acquired taste, but if you are able to stomach him, he can be useful sometimes ;-)


----------



## cary9719

Dr.Detroit said:


> Impressive though it is, it's not really my cup of tea and, honestly, to me it looks too much like any $100 Casio....no offence intended, of course!


None taken. As they say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".


----------



## Dr.Detroit

cary9719 said:


> None taken. As they say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".


As i've told CitizenPromaster already, i find the Promaster Sky Satellite Wave CC9025-51E very enticing, but i could never do it: way too big and the dial, and this is something of a leitmotiv with Citizen, is way, way too busy!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> As i've told CitizenPromaster already, i find the Promaster Sky Satellite Wave CC9025-51E very enticing, but i could never do it: way too big and the dial, and this is something of a leitmotiv with Citizen, is way, way too busy!


I guess busyness is also in the eye of the beholder. Many people call the Pilot watches busy too, but for example all I see when I look at below dial is the hands, unless I WANT to see the other things.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I guess busyness is also in the eye of the beholder. Many people call the Pilot watches busy too, but for example all I see when I look at below dial is the hands, unless I WANT to see the other things.


Everything's subjective after all. I personally could never wear said watch (unless i'm asking for a headache that is!) But yeah, those hands really "pop" and i give you that they are immediately visible. The hour markers, not so much. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

I much prefer the CC3060-10E GPS Satellite Wave: it just has a cleaner aesthetics, no-nonsense military vibe going on. But, as i've said multiple times: i am old fashioned and still prefer automatics. 
Also, i am not particularly fond of this Satellite Wave tech: i wouldn't want to be geo-tracked


----------



## CitizenPromaster

You’ve watched too many James Bond movies, satellite signal receivers and satellite signal transmitters are two very different things! Besides, we all have a tracking device, it’s called a mobile phone! ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Everything's subjective after all. I personally could never wear said watch (unless i'm asking for a headache that is!) But yeah, those hands really "pop" and i give you that they are immediately visible. The hour markers, not so much. Just my opinion of course.


I think an empty dial is a bit too much guess work, for the minutes at least.








But I don't see the point of anything more than tiny hour markers. I mean, as an adult you know where the numbers go, right?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

To be fair, I used to make and look at spreadsheets all day, so I'm not easily fazed by busyness ;-) But even before that time I never understood what people were complaining about with a watch dial being busy. I guess I'm just wired differently!


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> it's called a mobile phone! ;-)


I was being sarcastic, but i am sure you noticed! Funny you should mention that, but, oddly enough, i don't currently own a mobile phone. Oh well, i guess i am the true weirdo here ;-) 
Now, then, back on topic: busy dials and such. You want an example of a dial i consider quintessentially utilitarian, hence functional? There's your military dial: 








that's my beloved Seiko Gen.1 guys, resplendent in all its glory! (By the way, it's for sale so...interested parties behold!) 


CitizenPromaster said:


> I used to make and look at spreadsheets all day


Thankfully, i don't have a desk job! As i was saying, i am a sort of old-school-cool type of guy: i prefer a simpler life.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> But I don't see the point of anything more than tiny hour markers. I mean, as an adult you know where the numbers go, right?


Too busy dials are one thing, then again overly-simplistic ones are streight up shallow. One needs to strike the right balance between what's cumbersome and what's sterile.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I was being sarcastic, but i am sure you noticed! Funny you should mention that, but, oddly enough, i don't currently own a mobile phone. Oh well, i guess i am the true weirdo here ;-)
> Now, then, back on topic: busy dials and such. You want an example of a dial i consider quintessentially utilitarian, hence functional? There's your military dial:
> View attachment 15924827
> 
> that's my beloved Seiko Gen.1 guys, resplendent in all its glory! (By the way, it's for sale so...interested parties behold!)
> 
> Thankfully, i don't have a desk job! As i was saying, i am a sort of old-school-cool type of guy: i prefer a simpler life.


Again, maybe I'm crazy, but who doesn't know where the 12 goes? And who can't count to 60? Its like writing LEFT on your left hand and RIGHT on your right hand...


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Again, maybe I'm crazy, but who doesn't know where the 12 goes? And who can't count to 60? Its like writing LEFT on your left hand and RIGHT on your right hand...


Hey, if you're ok strapping on to your wrist and staring at something like this: 








more power to you man! 
I, on the other hand, wouldn't want to end up cross-eyed 🤣 🤣


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I guess you will skip on the Omega Seamaster Aqua Terra GMT Worldtimer then?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I guess you will skip on the Omega Seamaster Aqua Terra GMT Worldtimer then?


As a matter of fact i would - i've never been into GMT watches. Maybe, if i traveled more, i guess i could use the added feature. 
And you, what's your excuse? Unless you work as an airline pilot, what's the point of, say, having the slide rule in your Citizen Sky watch??


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I’m Tom Cruise.

I just like the look of it. Same for chronographs, I just like subdials, never used it once!
Hey it’s better than using a Range Rover or even worse, a Land Rover Defender, for grocery runs on asphalt.
And don’t get me started on dive watches! But hey, if people like them, great! More Pilot poser watches for me ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> And don't get me started on dive watches!


Agreed! To think that the average joe would ever use the proverbial helium release valve is just ludicrous ? 


CitizenPromaster said:


> More Pilot poser watches for me ;-)


the heart wants what the heart wants ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

your heart wants this? シチズン　クリスタルデートダイバー　３３石　ステンレス　自動巻き /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan!


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> your heart wants this? シチズン　クリスタルデートダイバー　３３石　ステンレス　自動巻き /【Buyee】 "Buyee" Japanese Proxy Service | Buy from Japan!


Now that's more like it! I could do it, if only i sold that Seiko Ge.1 first. 
I was pondering this lately: why wouldn't Citizen come up with its own series of, what shall i call them, "homage" divers? Re-creation divers, much like Seiko has been doing for the last, gosh, 20 years or so (think the Marinemaster 300m, when they first re-released it back in the year 2000 as a limited edition, it was an immediate hit, so much so that later that year or the following they made it a staple of their Prospex line) up until the present day, they are a huge success. 
Why won't Citizen do the same thing and bring back its iconic divers from the late '60s and '70s? For instance, i'd buy a re-print Crystal Date in a heartbeat! 
Imagine how much further could Citizen go if they came up with a re-issue of the Chonomaster 500m with chronometer-grade movement...Who would say no to that?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I think Citizen is a company that likes to look forward and prefers to focus on innovation rather than milking its history. They celebrated 100 years of Citizen with a pocket watch, but it was a full sapphire case wrapped around the prototype Cal. 0100 which is the most accurate quartz movement ever.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I think Citizen is a company that likes to look forward and prefers to focus on innovation rather than milking its history. They celebrated 100 years of Citizen with a pocket watch, but it was a full sapphire case wrapped around the prototype Cal. 0100 which is the most accurate quartz movement ever.


Since when "milking" any brand's heritage is a bad thing? I mean, you could argue that's inherently a "bad" thing, synonymous with a limited, ultimately stagnant view of things; still though, would you blame Rolex or Omega for "carrying over" their respective heritage?
That said, i see what you mean there, with Citizen being forward-thinking: Cal. 0100 is a stunning achievement, a bit over-hyped maybe, but still exceptionally awesome.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I wasn’t implying milking heritage is a bad thing, it just seems that Citizen is not interested in making money that way.


----------



## aafanatic

Rolling in my range rover on my way to the grocery store with my busy dial.
Life is so hard


----------



## CitizenPromaster

aafanatic said:


> Rolling in my range rover on my way to the grocery store with my busy dial.
> Life is so hard
> View attachment 15927033


LOL no offense to you buddy


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Found the perfect watch for you


----------



## Ziptie

Here's your classic. Sorry about the GMT complication.



https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/o480358446?lang=en


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I wasn't implying milking heritage is a bad thing, it just seems that Citizen is not interested in making money that way.


I guess so. Anyway, it's a pity though, Citizen has so much more to offer other than EcoDrive and their newer and impossibly accurate cal 0100
Just my opinion. 
Incidentally, talking with you has made me reinforce my high praise of Dutch people: you're all so very nice and lively, it's a joy to talk to you! I, for instance, have been buying my Japanese green tea from a lady called Renée Pompen for a few years now and couldn't be happier with the service: not only does she stock some of the finest Japanese green tea, but she's always attentive and highly responsive, she really goes up and above the call of duty at every single order i place. Very nice.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

aafanatic said:


> Rolling in my range rover on my way to the grocery store with my busy dial.
> Life is so hard
> View attachment 15927033


Don't you find it to be a little "overwhelming"? Don't get me wrong, i'd love to be able to pull it off, but unfortunately it's just too big and chunky for my skinny wrists...


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Hahahaha this grumpy misanthrope reinforcing positive feelings about Dutch people, who would have thought?
I would expect you to be applauding the release of the 0200 then? Maybe the packaging is not your thing, but they really made an effort to produce a high-end automatic caliber.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit, do you like cars? Do you prefer Ferrari or Lamborgini? Or maybe neither and you want a classic Maserati or De Tomaso?

I sometimes like to compare Citizen and Seiko to Toyota and Honda. Honda makes some amazing cars, no doubt, but they are pretty expensive, and if you want a cool, affordable car Toyota is the way to go. So value for money, I prefer Toyota over Honda, and I prefer Citizen over Seiko.
Incidentally, Citizen has made watches for Toyota and Seiko has made watches for Honda (and Casio too).


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Dr.Detroit, do you like cars? Do you prefer Ferrari or Lamborgini? Or maybe neither and you want a classic Maserati or De Tomaso?
> 
> I sometimes like to compare Citizen and Seiko to Toyota and Honda. Honda makes some amazing cars, no doubt, but they are pretty expensive, and if you want a cool, affordable car Toyota is the way to go. So value for money, I prefer Toyota over Honda, and I prefer Citizen over Seiko.
> Incidentally, Citizen has made watches for Toyota and Seiko has made watches for Honda (and Casio too).


I am not into cars, never been, so none of the above.
I select my means of transportation much like you do, it seems to me: Toyota's really have the edge, but if you want a full plug-in car (like i do) it's still steep at over € 30,000...
Right now i am "stuck" with a filthy Fiat Panda: does the job but it's definitely time for a change. Toyota's have been on my radar for ever, so has Hyundai; as you can see, i favour function over form, but i am also budget-conscious (too much, maybe).
For me, i cannot really make up my mind, so i'd say between Citizen and Seiko, it's a tie. They are both grand (pun intended!) in their respective ways.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Hmmmm I would have expected someone who likes mechanical watches and watch design to also like mechanical engines and car design. I only collect watches because I can't afford to collect cars!


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Hmmmm I would have expected someone who likes mechanical watches and watch design to also like mechanical engines and car design. I only collect watches because I can't afford to collect cars!


You can't compare watches to cars, at least in my opinion, they are two different things, though they share many similarities i give you that: with cars it's a matter of excercising one's good sense: ins't it about time we stopped being dependent on oil? Shouldn't we say a big no to the oil magnates, mostly Arabs? 
Politics and such considerations aside, this is very much about the future of the Earth: what world will we leave to our children?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Hmmmm I would have expected someone who likes mechanical watches and watch design to also like mechanical engines and car design. I only collect watches because I can't afford to collect cars!


Talking about a value proposition, check this one out: Orient Pro Saturation Diver CFD0C001B
Don't tell me that's not a stunner!! 
I'd do it, if it wasn't of gargantuan proportions...


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> You can't compare watches to cars, at least in my opinion, they are two different things, though they share many similarities i give you that: with cars it's a matter of excercising one's good sense: ins't it about time we stopped being dependent on oil? Shouldn't we say a big no to the oil magnates, mostly Arabs?
> Politics and such considerations aside, this is very much about the future of the Earth: what world will we leave to our children?


Driving a classic car every now and then - like in the Mille Miglia - is not going to harm anybody. How we arrange mass transportation is another matter! But let's not go there haha.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Talking about a value proposition, check this one out: Orient Pro Saturation Diver CFD0C001B
> Don't tell me that's not a stunner!!
> I'd do it, if it wasn't of gargantuan proportions...


Now why would one waste so much space on a dive bezel ring with a few numbers, when you can fit in a slide rule and a phone book in that space ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Driving a classic car every now and then - like in the Mille Miglia - is not going to harm anybody. How we arrange mass transportation is another matter! But let's not go there haha.


Agreed. Let's stick to watches! Forget that i ever brought that one up


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Now why would one waste so much space on a dive bezel ring with a few numbers, when you can fit in a slide rule and a phone book in that space ;-)


Yes, the bezel's outrageous. But i can see you're still living in your "fantasy world" where you work as an airline pilot and make use of your slide rule to figure out how much fuel you have left 🤣 🤣  
To each his own!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Politics and such considerations aside, this is very much about the future of the Earth: what world will we leave to our children?


The earth was there long before humans appeared and the earth will be there long after humans are gone. I'm a misanthrope, remember? Good riddance ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Yes, the bezel's outrageous. But i can see you're still living in your "fantasy world" where you work as an airline pilot and make use of your slide rule to figure out how much fuel you have left 🤣 🤣
> To each his own!


Airline pilots actually have no use for slide rules, and they don't even need GMT. I have this on good authority from an actual airline pilot on this forum! But even airline pilots like to pose!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

The reason airline pilots, or even fighter pilots, don't need a fancy watch is because they have a whole bunch of flight instruments. But these Citizen Sky watches were actually worn by (Japanese) fighter pilots, so that makes me a fighter pilot by association ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> The reason airline pilots, or even fighter pilots, don't need a fancy watch is because they have a whole bunch of flight instruments. But these Citizen Sky watches were actually worn by (Japanese) fighter pilots, so that makes me a fighter pilot by association ;-)


So, based on the same analogy, i am a RAF helicopter pilot for owing a Seiko Ge.1  which, by the way, is also a genuine, military-issued and tested watch.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> So, based on the same analogy, i am a RAF helicopter pilot for owing a Seiko Ge.1  which, by the way, is also a genuine, military-issued and tested watch.


You can be whatever you imagine to be. You can buy an Omega Speedmaster (Moonwatch) and pretend to be an astronaut.
I like to talk into my watch and pretend I'm Michael Knight haha


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> You can be whatever you imagine to be. You can buy an Omega Speedmaster (Moonwatch) and pretend to be an astronaut.
> I like to talk into my watch and pretend I'm Michael Knight haha
> View attachment 15928430


For about 20 years, i felt like James Bond with my Seamaster Professional 300, now i need to play another character. I've always loved the laid-back style of Magnum, and his Chronosport Sea Quartz 30 just screams military vibe to me:








but finding one in decent condition is a mission impossible!


----------



## Dr.Detroit

Dr.Detroit said:


> For about 20 years, i felt like James Bond with my Seamaster Professional 300, now i need to play another character. I've always loved the laid-back style of Magnum, and his Chronosport Sea Quartz 30 just screams military vibe to me:
> View attachment 15928432
> 
> but finding one in decent condition is a mission impossible!


Oh, there we find the "italian machismo" again...


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I have to admit my admiration for Pilot watches started because of my admiration for automotive journalist Tiff Needell who used to wear a Breitling Navitimer. I was an automotive journalist myself for a while, and sad as it is, having a nice watch gives you esteem in that little world.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> For about 20 years, i felt like James Bond with my Seamaster Professional 300, now i need to play another character. I've always loved the laid-back style of Magnum, and his Chronosport Sea Quartz 30 just screams military vibe to me:
> View attachment 15928432
> 
> but finding one in decent condition is a mission impossible!


Definitely a nice watch. I see one sold on WUS last year: Chronosport Sea Quartz 30 | WatchUSeek Watch Forums


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I have to admit my admiration for Pilot watches started because of my admiration for automotive journalist Tiff Needell who used to wear a Breitling Navitimer. I was an automotive journalist myself for a while, and sad as it is, having a nice watch gives you esteem in that little world.


Interesting. When it comes down to it, we all share one thing in common: there's always this "special" someone who ignited the fire for us, who instilled the virus i dare say. For me it was Pierce Brosnan, and later, when my admiration grew stronger, Magnum P.I. and Jacques Cousteau. 
Personally, i've always preferred to steer clear of the idea that watches empower you with high esteem - indeed it is (sad), but when you come to think of it, that's part of the game and, for most, it is what owing watches is all about: being esteemed, letting others know what place in the world you have (Rolex owners, i am looking at you) and how long your dong is - utterly sad, but ultimately true.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Yeah I was going to type that a watch is an extension of their dong for many men - not just automotive journalists - but I could't think of a pleasing euphemism (I didn't like johnson, but dong is great).

You know what I love about really understanding the English language? Getting every little nuance of a conversation/monologue like this, which completely goes over the head of casual English speakers.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Getting every little nuance of a conversation/monologue like this


I know the feeling ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Yeah I was going to type that a watch is an extension of their dong for many men - not just automotive journalists - but I could't think of a pleasing euphemism (I didn't like johnson, but dong is great).
> 
> You know what I love about really understanding the English language? Getting every little nuance of a conversation/monologue like this, which completely goes over the head of casual English speakers.


But i am a little out of practice right now; i definitely need to enlist the help of my Master once again, he always comes to the rescue!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> But i am a little out of practice right now; i definitely need to enlist the help of my Master once again, he always comes to the rescue!


I see some sarcasm, some hints of coyness, but I'm not sure what you are asking? This actor playing this role is kind of like a mirror for me. If you deeply care about the world but realize you are ultimately powerless, one obvious coping mechanism is becoming cynical, but most people misunderstand that as pessimism. It's actually the opposite, it is being overly optimistic about humanity's prospects, and then using humor to deal with the perpetual disappointment.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I see some sarcasm, some hints of coyness, but I'm not sure what you are asking? This actor playing this role is kind of like a mirror for me. If you deeply care about the world but realize you are ultimately powerless, one obvious coping mechanism is becoming cynical, but most people misunderstand that as pessimism. It's actually the opposite, it is being overly optimistic about humanity's prospects, and then using humor to deal with the perpetual disappointment.


I have trouble parsing this. Are we shifting to metaphysics here? I didn't sing on to do my doctoral thesis on behavioural sciences, so i cannot comfortably (or casually) speak of what's beyond my objective experience. And yet, for a third of a second in my life you make me parse this...how did we end up here? 
Anyhow, i can assure you i wasn't being sarcastic or coy and mine was most definitely not a question. Don't get bogged down in these philosophical elucubrations or your grim view of reality will eventually rub off on me (not that i need that, of course, i am pretty world-weary myself...).


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> one obvious coping mechanism is becoming cynical


I prefer a straight-up defence mechanism myself: i am always angry.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Oh I was just rambling, don't worry about it ;-)

I'm confused though, you keep saying you have to sell your Seiko before you can buy anything else. I don't know what these Seiko's go for, but isn't an Omega much more expensive than your Seiko?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Oh I was just rambling, don't worry about it ;-)
> 
> I'm confused though, you keep saying you have to sell your Seiko before you can buy anything else. I don't know what these Seiko's go for, but isn't an Omega much more expensive than your Seiko?


Sure is, but i was implying that i need the extra cash that would hopefully come with that sale. Hard to say just how much these sell for, it largely depends on their overall condition and year (earlier examples are generally most coveted, hence more expensive); have a quick look at them here: 








seiko gen.1 in Jewelry and Watches: Search Result | eBay


Get the best deals for seiko gen.1 at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!



www.ebay.com




i know, eBay might not be the most authoritative place, but just to get you an idea. Their prices have literally gone over the roof during the last decade.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Gee whiz, they are literally worth their weight in gold! Crazy collectors...


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Gee whiz, they are literally worth their weight in gold! Crazy collectors...


If i can manage to sell it anywhere near those asking prices i'll be the happiest man alive ;-) 
But if i am being realistic here, this will hardly ever happen...


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Gee whiz, they are literally worth their weight in gold! Crazy collectors...


Let's not forget this one though: Citizen Nero 43 mm proveniente da Giappone, Otsu-shi | Chrono24


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Let's not forget this one though: Citizen Nero 43 mm proveniente da Giappone, Otsu-shi | Chrono24


He is only two grand over market price ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> If i can manage to sell it anywhere near those asking prices i'll be the happiest man alive ;-)
> But if i am being realistic here, this will hardly ever happen...


You can't post it on WUS yet but you can try Chrono24, right?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> You can't post it on WUS yet but you can try Chrono24, right?


Believe me i tried, but it appears there's a glitch in their system that won't let me insert my ad. But that's fair enough, for i don't think there would be any interest in a quartz Seiko chronograph; you see the problem with these watches is that they cater for the "niche" of die-hard military watch collectors, and they are far and few in between and, moreover, they'll be after other, more desirable pieces (like the Heuer Bund, for example). 
And even if i did sell it and make a reasonable profit, i don't think that i'd be comfortable spending 5k + on a PO... one must consider what comes next (periodical service costs and such...) and, frankly, i don't think it'd be worth it. 
But yes, the fact that i cannot post it here (where it would presumably sell a lot quicker...) infuriates me. Not least because a few years ago i did sell another watch here, when there still wasn't this utterly silly 100 post rule...i am not criticizing it, i am merely expressing my unbiased opinion. 
(if you're curious, it was an abominable Helson Sharkmaster in bronze!!)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I think the 100 post rule is there to provide the sales forum as a service, or a reward even, for members who actually engage, but hey, you've got 101 posts so now all you gotta do is wait another month ;-)
"Specifically: To initiate a sales post in the Sales Corner as a private seller you must first be registered longer than 90 days and have a minimum of 100 posts in our discussion forums."
Also I think the 100 post rule discourages scammers to just make a new account and try again, though they have found a way to keep at it:
"It has come to my attention that the scum of the earth Scammers that infiltrate our site like a flesh-eating bacterial infestation have started changing their tactics. Since they cannot post sales advertisements without the necessary 3-month/100 posts limits, they have started contacting members via PM with watches for sale. It is the same ploy..... stolen pictures, low post-counts, and unbelievable prices. Please report these PMs so that these scammers can be dealt with appropriately."


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I think the 100 post rule is there to provide the sales forum as a service, or a reward even, for members who actually engage, but hey, you've got 101 posts so now all you gotta do is wait another month ;-)
> "Specifically: To initiate a sales post in the Sales Corner as a private seller you must first be registered longer than 90 days and have a minimum of 100 posts in our discussion forums."
> Also I think the 100 post rule discourages scammers to just make a new account and try again, though they have found a way to keep at it:
> "It has come to my attention that the scum of the earth Scammers that infiltrate our site like a flesh-eating bacterial infestation have started changing their tactics. Since they cannot post sales advertisements without the necessary 3-month/100 posts limits, they have started contacting members via PM with watches for sale. It is the same ploy..... stolen pictures, low post-counts, and unbelievable prices. Please report these PMs so that these scammers can be dealt with appropriately."


Ok, ok, i take everything back. I was reprehended myself and instructed to be appreciative that such forum does exist, and i am. I get it. Lesson learned! 
In my defence i will say that i tried to explain (to the forum administrator/s) that i was no watch expert and only needed a platform other than eBay or Chrono24 to sell whatever watches i owned, that i could never envision to post 100 posts because what was i to talk about? 
Much like you just did, they told me that said rule is there to "encourage members' participation to the forum". 
I bet it does ;-) 
I am grateful that i've found someone as smart as you to talk with!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

At least I've helped you to get to 100 posts without being accused of speed posting! You even made it into the top three of legal spammers!








And our rambling in this thread has garnered 9000 views so far, so the lurkers must be entertained ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> At least I've helped you to get to 100 posts without being accused of speed posting! You even made it into the top three of legal spammers!
> View attachment 15930299
> 
> And our rambling in this thread has garnered 9000 views so far, so the lurkers must be entertained ;-)


I didn't know i was being "watched" and regarded as a potential spammer, thanks for pointing that out to me. And yes, i do owe you credit for breaking the 100 post wall in no time! 
But i really enjoyed each and every one of your insightful replies and, as i said, it's a joy to talk to you.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

Perhaps i should start a new discussion, i already have a potential topic in mind...can you guess what that is? 
;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I didn't know i was being "watched" and regarded as a potential spammer, thanks for pointing that out to me. And yes, i do owe you credit for breaking the 100 post wall in no time!
> But i really enjoyed each and every one of your insightful replies and, as i said, it's a joy to talk to you.


Thank you, it has been my pleasure! I look forward to your new thread! Is it about stopping our dependency on oil and saying no to the mostly Arab oil magnates? ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Perhaps i should start a new discussion, i already have a potential topic in mind...can you guess what that is?
> ;-)


Or maybe you will post a poll. SHOULD CITIZEN RELEASE RE-ISSUES OF VINTAGE DIVE WATCHES? ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Or maybe you will post a poll. SHOULD CITIZEN RELEASE RE-ISSUES OF VINTAGE DIVE WATCHES? ;-)


Wow, those are actually two very interesting topics but hardly suitable (well, the first one at least) for a watch forum; Maybe you can take it from here and start the latter! 
But no, actually i was thinking more of something like: "a thread to rule them all" sort of thing: sounds bombastic, but hear me out: "should wristwatches of any kind even be a thing in this day and age or is it just, well, toys for not so grown-up adults?" 
Or even this: "can i actually consider myself a watch enthusiast or am i only a casual observer in the watch game? 
I fear i don't have the necessary knowledge, or the time for that matter, to indulge in any such topics...I am not even close to being an idiot watch savant, let alone an expert in the field. 
And i am experiencing troubles squaring off my personality: do i even want to buy a mechanical wristwatch? 
Food for thought?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

Like, i know that mechanical watches belong to a museum, and yet i still get enchanted with Seikos, Citizens (mainly vintage though), Omegas and other, less known brands. 
How's that?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I suspect those kind of discussions have been held more than once in the public forum, but I usually stick to researching (titanium) Citizens so I don’t keep up with the philosophical watch discussions ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I'm suspect those kind of discussions have been held more than once in the public forum, but I usually stick to researching (titanium) Citizens so I don't keep up with the philosophical watch discussions ;-)


And yet you had enough spare time to track down all my posts outside this thread...sounds familiar? 
If i might ask: what are you after right now (of those titanium Citizen watches)?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

This one perhaps? 








Citizen Super Tough Robert Swan Eco-Drive Men's Analog Watch with Box | eBay


Specs Of Powerful Full Threat - Citizen All Titanium, Solar Eco Drive Watch, Promaster, Robert, Swan Model. It is a model for explorer specialists with strong tough specifications developed for a longitudinal walking expedition to Antarctica, the ultimate explorer Robert, Swan, and it is a...



www.ebay.com


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Well after 5 years there is nothing left to research so I was keeping myself entertained by researching some guy who is searching for perfection in an imperfect world...sounds familiar? ;-)
I’ve bought all the watches I wanted, or can afford anyway, so I’m pretty much finished collecting.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Well after 5 years there is nothing left to research so I was keeping myself entertained by researching some guy who is searching for perfection in an imperfect world...sounds familiar? ;-)
> I've bought all the watches I wanted, or can afford anyway, so I'm pretty much finished collecting.


We aim to please! 
So, sounds like you've reached watch nirvana, good for you my Friend ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Well after 5 years there is nothing left to research


And i tremble just at the thought of having to endure another whole month before i can post the ad for my Seiko...what i am to talk about? You know what i mean?


----------



## Dr.Detroit

I mean, i cannot simply recycle the same threads over and over again, members would be mad at me, and understandably so!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I mean, i cannot simply recycle the same threads over and over again, members would be mad at me, and understandably so!


You don't have to post the coming month, your 100+ posts won't expire if you don't add to them ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> You don't have to post the coming month, your 100+ posts won't expire if you don't add to them ;-)


But if i felt compelled to post anyway? Would the watch-related philosophical blathering be a good place to start?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> But if i felt compelled to post anyway? Would the watch-related philosophical blathering be a good place to start?


Does this answer your question? ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Does this answer your question? ;-)
> View attachment 15930982


Indeed it does ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> And yet you had enough spare time to track down all my posts outside this thread...sounds familiar?
> If i might ask: what are you after right now (of those titanium Citizen watches)?


Tracking down all your posts is actually a matter of seconds. You just hover over your name so the window appears and then you click on Replies and scroll through the list of your posts.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Tracking down all your posts is actually a matter of seconds. You just hover over your name so the window appears and then you click on Replies and scroll through the list of your posts.
> 
> View attachment 15931428


Thanks for the tip. I am going to have a hard time tracking down yours... 🤣


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Thanks for the tip. I am going to have a hard time tracking down yours... 🤣


But on the bright side you might learn a thing or two, or it will help you sleep ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> you might learn a thing or two


Just skip ahead to the next section and thrall me with your acumen!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Just skip ahead to the next section and thrall me with your acumen!


I can't summarize 40+ pages of Citizen related titanium research! But if the subject matter doesn't interest you, it will bore you to sleep!
For now, I have nothing left to say...


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I can't summarize 40+ pages of Citizen related titanium research! But if the subject matter doesn't interest you, it will bore you to sleep!
> For now, I have nothing left to say...


I saw that one coming, i've finally succeeded in boring you out of your mind. Nice chat all the same. Totally worth it! Come back anytime!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I saw that one coming, i've finally succeeded in boring you out of your mind. Nice chat all the same. Totally worth it! Come back anytime!


Maybe your perpetual anger is clouding your vision, but the world does not revolve around you my friend. I am having a difficult time in real life and I won't be any fun chatting today.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Maybe your perpetual anger is clouding your vision, but the world does not revolve around you my friend. I am having a difficult time in real life and I won't be any fun chatting today.


First things first: take care of yourself, i wish you luck and i'll leave you at peace.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Maybe your perpetual anger is clouding your vision, but the world does not revolve around you my friend. I am having a difficult time in real life and I won't be any fun chatting today.


So, have you sorted out your real-life problems yet? None of my business i know, i was just showing some empathy here.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I have so many I already forgot which one had me occupied back then haha.

More importantly, you are allowed to post in the sales forum now, so where is the Seiko ad???


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I have so many I already forgot which one had me occupied back then haha.
> 
> More importantly, you are allowed to post in the sales forum now, so where is the Seiko ad???


I thought i were, but turns out i am not in reality. Don't you think i tried that already? It appears i don't have enough "privileges" to post there...i wonder why.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> where is the Seiko ad???


Nowhere to be seen, i fear. 
I even started another discussion to "gain privileges" even though i don't have a clue about this whole privilege thing. Granted, i might have to figure out a sensible price for my Seiko because, let's face it, nobody's going to pay me 2-3K for a 37mm quartz chronograph, regardless of the RAF connection and whatnot. 
So that gives me plenty of time to work it out, i guess.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I have so many


I sympathize with you, i myself am going through some harsh times right now...


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I thought i were, but turns out i am not in reality. Don't you think i tried that already? It appears i don't have enough "privileges" to post there...i wonder why.


Well considering your run-in with the moderators maybe they blacklisted you? No harm in asking them I guess?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> I sympathize with you, i myself am going through some harsh times right now...


Sorry to hear it! Hope things work out soon.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> Nowhere to be seen, i fear.
> I even started another discussion to "gain privileges" even though i don't have a clue about this whole privilege thing. Granted, i might have to figure out a sensible price for my Seiko because, let's face it, nobody's going to pay me 2-3K for a 37mm quartz chronograph, regardless of the RAF connection and whatnot.
> So that gives me plenty of time to work it out, i guess.


You see, every cloud has a silver lining ;-)


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Well considering your run-in with the moderators maybe they blacklisted you? No harm in asking them I guess?


What constitutes a run in? I didn't know i've had any...or that the forum rules are this strict.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> You see, every cloud has a silver lining ;-)


Yes, you would think, wouldn't you?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> What constitutes a run in? I didn't know i've had any...or that the forum rules are this strict.





Dr.Detroit said:


> Ok, ok, i take everything back. I was reprehended myself and instructed to be appreciative that such forum does exist, and i am. I get it. Lesson learned!
> In my defence i will say that i tried to explain (to the forum administrator/s) that i was no watch expert and only needed a platform other than eBay or Chrono24 to sell whatever watches i owned, that i could never envision to post 100 posts because what was i to talk about?
> Much like you just did, they told me that said rule is there to "encourage members' participation to the forum".
> I bet it does ;-)
> I am grateful that i've found someone as smart as you to talk with!


"A run-in is an argument or quarrel with someone. [informal] I had a monumental run-in with him a couple of years ago. Synonyms: fight, row, argument, dispute"


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> "A run-in is an argument or quarrel with someone. [informal] I had a monumental run-in with him a couple of years ago. Synonyms: fight, row, argument, dispute"


That wasn't what i meant - i know what a run in is - my question delved a little deeper: what constitutes (for the forum moderators) a run in? Did i really have any? 
When did i have this presumed run ins with the forum moderators?


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> That wasn't what i meant - i know what a run in is - my question delved a little deeper: what constitutes (for the forum moderators) a run in? Did i really have any?
> When did i have this presumed run ins with the forum moderators?


It seems you had the run-in when you were "reprehended". But only the administrators can tell you why you still can't post in the sales forum.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> It seems you had the run-in when you were "reprehended". But only the administrators can tell you why you still can't post in the sales forum.


As far as i know, i've only been reprimanded when i tried to post my Seiko for sale when i still hadn't reached 100 posts. Just that was enough to put me into the blacklist? How can i contact the administrators? Obviously this whole thing is a misunderstanding.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Watches - Private Sellers and Sponsors | WatchUSeek Watch Forums










I'm not saying you are blacklisted, I'm only saying these guys can probably tell you why you aren't able to post there.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Watches - Private Sellers and Sponsors | WatchUSeek Watch Forums
> 
> View attachment 15993231
> 
> 
> I'm not saying you are blacklisted, I'm only saying these guys can probably tell you why you aren't able to post there.


This was simpler than i expected: turns out the 90-day subscription period has not yet come to its full completion - i will be able to post the ad on friday 16. 
Problem solved. 
And no, no run-ins or bad blood between myself and the administrators.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Dr.Detroit said:


> This was simpler than i expected: turns out the 90-day subscription period has not yet come to its full completion - i will be able to post the ad on friday 16.
> Problem solved.
> And no, no run-ins or bad blood between myself and the administrators.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

If you get your asking price for your Seiko, maybe you can buy a Zodiac Sea Wolf. It's got a vintage Citizen diver vibe and it's automatic. I like it!


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> If you get your asking price for your Seiko, maybe you can buy a Zodiac Sea Wolf. It's got a vintage Citizen diver vibe and it's automatic. I like it!
> 
> View attachment 16023088


I thought i'd reach out to you with a question: suppose i did want a Citizen Promaster (pun slightly intended ;-) i wanted to hear your opinion on some high-end references that are simply stellar: the CC7005-16E (harking back to the original Satellite Wave) and the CC4025-82E, 50th anniversary limited edition model. 
Obnoxious though they may be, i find them simply irresistible. 
But i'd have to sell my Seiko and, well, a kidney even to afford either. 
I thought there would be plenty of room for you to share your opinions, since you specialise in titanium Promaster's. 
Bring it on, Mister ;-)


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Haha you do know how to pick them. Those are some of the last watches I would buy myself, because I personally think Satellite Wave watches are oversized and overpriced, and special editions like these are especially overpriced. But so far I haven't heard much complaints about these GPS calibers, and I'm sure the quality of these watches is top notch, so if you like them and if you find the money, why not? Just don't buy them as an investment ;-)


----------



## mediasapiens

Vintage Citizen ParaAlarm is the best watch imho Citizen has ever designed.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

mediasapiens said:


> Vintage Citizen ParaAlarm is the best watch imho Citizen has ever designed.
> View attachment 16023118
> 
> View attachment 16023119


Do you use the alarm?


----------



## mediasapiens

CitizenPromaster said:


> Do you use the alarm?


Yes


----------



## CitizenPromaster

mediasapiens said:


> Yes


What kind of sound does it make?


----------



## mediasapiens

CitizenPromaster said:


> What kind of sound does it make?


The same ****ty rattle sound as JLC or Breguet make.
I dont know why it is so ''advanced'' to fit a circular gong into these cheap and not so cheap alarm watches to improve on the audio.


----------



## CitizenPromaster

I recently learned about the existence of these @Dr.Detroit
Orange Citizen Retro Alterna Diver | The Watch Site
Might be hard to track down this watch from 2009 though.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> I recently learned about the existence of these @Dr.Detroit
> Orange Citizen Retro Alterna Diver | The Watch Site
> Might be hard to track down this watch from 2009 though.
> 
> View attachment 16024915


Impressive, very nice indeed. Let the hunt begin! 
And thanks for your opinion on the Satellite Wave references, i highly appreciated it. Truth be told, they are absurdly big and chunky, though the titanium construction might help cut down the weight and bulk a bit, yes they are overpriced, even though Citizen's GPS calibers are said to be the most advanced and so far i haven't heard or read anything that can refute that, and they are most definitely not an investment. 
But, just the same, they are awesome!!!


----------



## CitizenPromaster

Those 2009 re-issues are Eco-Drive though, can you live with that??? They were really affordable when new, only 20,000 yen! (21,000 yen incl. tax)

I've discussed that 50th Ann. several times in the Titanium thread:
Search results for query: CC4025-82E | WatchUSeek Watch Forums

And I've even mentioned the CC7005-16E: The definitive Citizen Titanium Thread / Super Titanium / Ti + IP / Duratect / MRK / DLC | Page 26 | WatchUSeek Watch Forums

We've discussed the sister model recently here: CC7000-01L F900 Limited Edition Citizen vs Campanola | WatchUSeek Watch Forums


----------



## Dr.Detroit

CitizenPromaster said:


> Those 2009 re-issues are Eco-Drive though, can you live with that???


I guess i can manage. But as of right now i am facing other expenses, so i fear i'll have to postpone any watch purchase indefinitely. My ad surely doesn't look good: no love for my little quartz Seiko. 0 interest thus far. No good.


----------



## mougino

Dr.Detroit said:


> I guess i can manage. But as of right now i am facing other expenses, so i fear i'll have to postpone any watch purchase indefinitely. My ad surely doesn't look good: no love for my little quartz Seiko. 0 interest thus far. No good.


You need to 'bump' it up every 24hr in the sales subforum to give it more visibility. Have a look at how other sellers do it.


----------



## Dr.Detroit

mougino said:


> You need to 'bump' it up every 24hr in the sales subforum to give it more visibility. Have a look at how other sellers do it.


Bit busy lately, i don't have enough time to commit to a once-every-24-hrs "Bump" - whatever that means...


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## Dr.Detroit

mougino said:


> You need to 'bump' it up every 24hr in the sales subforum to give it more visibility. Have a look at how other sellers do it.


but thanks for the tip anyway!


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