# Grand Seiko SBGX061 vs The Citizen AQ1010-54E - help making decision



## machlo (Jun 12, 2010)

I'm going to acquire high end quartz watch for every day wearing. I'm considering two watches: Grand Seiko SBGX061 and The Citizen AQ1010-54E. I limited choice to these two watches after a lot of research and I wouldn't like to spend more than about $2500.

*Grand Seiko SBGX061*








Avusblue's photo - I hope he didn't mind that I attached his photo. 

*Pros:*
- high accuracy movement - +- 10s/year is more than enough
- service period of 50 years
- as simple as possible movement design yet durable and accurate
- fast date change
- timeless visual design
- case and bracelet can be refinished when get scratched
- deep black dial
- about $600 cheaper
- Grand Seiko 

*Cons:*
- need to change battery (and probably gaskets) every 3 years
- no perpetual calendar
- no independent hour hand
- stainless steel case and bracelet is easier to scratch

*The Citizen AQ1010-54E*








Photo from watch.ru: The Citizen Chronomaster (AQ1010-54E) -

*Pros:*
- better accuracy (+-5s/year)
- service free usage for about 20-30 year (only gasket should be change once awhile)
- Duratect case and bracelet - virtually impossible to scratch, at least I'm not able to scratch my TiC Oceanus 
- perpetual calendar
- independent hour hand
- nice dial shape (vertical stripes)
- overall quality about the same as GS
- nicer looking bracelet than in GS

*Cons:*
- AR coating on external side of glass (read somewhere that it is as hard as 1200 HV)
- case and bracelet impossible to refinish if scratched
- probably it will be hard to find appropriate battery after 20-30 years time
- black dial is not as black as in GS (probably it's gray not black)
- more expensive

Which one would you choose? Can you recommend anything similar for no more than $2600? 
Please share your thoughts.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Although personally, I'm rather "off" Eco-drive, I'd consider the 10 year warranty of The Citizen a major advantage over the two year one on the GS. Both are steel, neither is luminous, so on those scores they're equal.
Aside from that, and the points you've already recounted, I think your own aesthetic taste has to prevail.


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## fmc000 (Nov 24, 2011)

I'm a huge Seiko, and especially Grand Seiko, fan but in this case I voted for the Citizen, it looks like a clear winner to me (even if it's about 25% more expensive).


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## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

It should be what appeals to you the most. I lean toward that Citizen.


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## Orex (Jul 17, 2012)

My vote is for Citizen 

pros:
- love the power reserve - very useful if you wear it only occasionally. It can happen if you have a large watch collection.
- brace is more stylish with polished links (partially mirror) in tone with the mirror polished bezel.
- the stripes on the dial are also a good solution to counter potential reflections (similar with Omega AT).
- lugs seem more refined with added oblique cuts on sides.
- overall bolder (but more subtle) design - this is rather subjective

cons (rather subjective):
- the second hand is a bit short as it does not reach to the markers
- there is a hidden pusher at 2 - this inspires less robustness to me.


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## machlo (Jun 12, 2010)

Orex, I haven't noticed that second and minute hands are shorter in Citizen until you mentioned that. :|


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## pbv (Jun 21, 2012)

Huge GS reporting ..!!!


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## avusblue (Mar 26, 2009)

Let me add a little bit of a contrarian view. I am as much of an accuracy snob as almost anyone. I want my daily-wear watches to always portray perfectly accurate and current time, with no fuss. And either one of these two choices will do a great job of that for you. Functionally, the difference between 5 sec / year and 10 sec / year is immaterial, and it seems to be reported around here that most GS Quartzes run much better than 10 sec / year anyway (mine have).

So my advice is that it all comes down to how you feel about the looks and the features of each piece. Relative to the price of each. Only you can decide that. But I'll offer my personal perspective. In addition to their superlative accuracy, one of the best things to enjoy about this class of watch is their clean, traditional, conservative aesthetics. A holistic sense of gracious, spare, orderly design that reflects careful editing away of any extraneous elements.

On that score, I personally prefer the Grand Seiko, being that much cleaner and simple. The GS's velvety, deep, matte black dial is absolute perfection. The dial, hands, markers, and all visual elements have ideal proportions and interplay. For me, the GS offers a perfectly integrated whole that has absolutely no flaws that I can point to in its aesthetics, design or execution.

Meanwhile, the Citizen has a handful of visual elements that would bother me over time. The overly prominent "CITIZEN" logo, the blockier hour markers come off kind of clunky, its too-bold chrome framing around the date window is likewise, and the engraved, planked, dial is just not as appealing to me. Having the hash marks on the chapter ring versus the dial is also less preferable. I personally find the power reserve indicator cluttery and distracting (I feel the same way about the Seiko Spring Drive's power reserve indicator, as well).

Maybe I'm just too harsh and persnickety (its highly possible!) but that's how it comes down for me. And clarity of aesthetics & design are -- to me -- a major, major element of choosing a fine wristwatch.

Regarding features, however. The Citizen has more. The detachable, independently settable hour hand on the Citizen brings a real plus that I wish the GS had. Other differences are less significant to me. The perpetual calendar is a neat trick, but it's a feature you honestly don't miss if you don't have it, and I don't like that little extra button on the case side that it dictates. The titanium finishing is tempting, but steel is certainly much easier for the end-user to maintain if and when a scuff occurs. Eco-Drive is also nice, but maybe that's the reason the Citizen can't have as nice of a dial finish (they need something that transmits light), and frankly changing a battery once every three years or so is hardly a burden.

So there you have it. It, of course, all comes down to what's important to each individual. My vote is for Grand Seiko - it's just that-much-more traditional and conservative - the watch for which utter simplicity is its ultimate feature. Logical or illogical, I just like it, and so an SBGX061 is what I wear. That it also happens to cost a lot less is another a bonus.

My $.02 - good luck and keep us posted!

Dave










PS -- You can see my respective detailed reviews here (SBGX063) and here (SBGX061).


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## machlo (Jun 12, 2010)

Avusblue, thanks for sharing your view - it helps a lot.


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## Hans Moleman (Sep 24, 2007)

Read up on old posts!

A lot of posts talk about the accuracy not being what it was advertised as.
The owner then sends the watch back, and has it adjusted so that it does match the accuracy expectation.

Obviously I don't have percentages on how many fail, but it should be a concern.

Get one that you can keep sending back until it is exactly what you expect from it.


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## abqhudson (Feb 9, 2012)

I like the clean look of the GS - that's why I recently bought a new one. It wears really well and it's my favorite watch so far.


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## shtora (Jan 11, 2009)

I voted "none". 
I don't like the dial of the CITIZEN and I would be affraid to spend so much money on an Eco-Drive, somehow I believe that it would be easier to find standard batteries in a couple of decades.
While I like any quartz GS and I find this particular one very beautiful, I would prefer a watch with an independent hour hand adjustment (time-zone function).
That is why, none.
However, if I had to choose a new expensive HEQ, one option would be CREDOR Signo GCAZ055. It has a fantastic dial pattern, applied shiny minute markers "metal drop" style, calibre 8J86 rated +/- 10 sec./year with time-zone function.


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## machlo (Jun 12, 2010)

Credor is quite ok, but I'm looking for a watch with black dial.


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## Orex (Jul 17, 2012)

machlo said:


> Orex, I haven't noticed that second and minute hands are shorter in Citizen until you mentioned that. :|


Actually, giving it a second look, they are not shorter. Is rather the marking that are on the internal bezel and not on the dial. It might be ok as the design gives more depth.


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## TylerDurden (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm mulling over these, and a couple other, watches too and voted for the GS here. 

I love everything about the GS except for the lack on an independently adjusting hour hand and a perpetual calendar. Not that these are necessary features, but I wonder what's the purpose of having a watch accurate to 5-10 seconds per year if I need to re-set the time every month or every time I change timezones anyway? Ideally, I want an HEQ that looks like the GS, but that I only have to completely re-set the time after a battery change every three years or so. And, of course, hardened titanium is always a nice touch for both lightness and corrosion resistance. If such a GS existed, I would be practicing my (hopefully compelling) speech on the necessity of my recent acquisition in the mirror right now.

As to the Citizen posted here, it has all of the features I want but I don't care for the dial at all. So, basically, everything avusblue said...

And, for the record, that Credor looks NICE.


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## valek (Mar 24, 2012)

Unsurprisingly, I would also recommend the GS 
I really love everything about the quartz GSes. In fact, since I got my second one (sbgx039), I sold off everything else and only wear these, alternating between the two. I consider my collection complete now!

It may not be very rational, but I love the fact that it's relatively conservative, low-tech compared to the citizen. It just tells time perfectly, with absolutely no gimmick. I dont mind the minimum maintenance (quickset date every other month + battery change), and I appreciate its timelessness.

By the way, when I was looking for my black dial GS I ended up picking the sbgt037, have you checked it out? It's very similar to the sbgx061, but I love the kanji date  Just a touch of fun on an otherwise very strict watch eh.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

I agree that the minute hand isn't actually shorter, but the effect of the conical surface on which the minute markers appear and the placement near the outside of the dial, results in a sizeable gap between the end of the second hand and the markers. While I don't think the alignment of the second hand and the minute markers is actually any worse than on the Chronomaster or the GS, it seems to convey that impression. 
Valek goes for the GS because of its ultimate simplicity. Bearing in mind the lack of the Chronomaster's wider hands and lume, and the fact that the 1010 has the fuel gauge, I have to agree that the GS does present the classical simplicity and under-statedness that he apparently admires. And so do I. On the other hand the functional advantages of the Citizen, its perpetual calendar, its independently adjustable hour hand do nothing to clutter the watches simplicity. It's the Eco-drive and the fuel-gauge that do. 
I'm glad not to have to choose between those two and to be able to stick contentedly with my Chronomasters.


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## dicioccio (Jul 14, 2011)

I wanted to write my opinion but it actually is 100% the same as artec.

Anyway I voted for the GS since it has a better looking (for me a FAR better looking) and cost 600$ less.


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## Orex (Jul 17, 2012)

artec said:


> I agree that the minute hand isn't actually shorter, but the effect of the conical surface on which the minute markers appear and the placement near the outside of the dial, results in a sizeable gap between the end of the second hand and the markers. While I don't think the alignment of the second hand and the minute markers is actually any worse than on the Chronomaster or the GS, it seems to convey that impression.
> Valek goes for the GS because of its ultimate simplicity. Bearing in mind the lack of the Chronomaster's wider hands and lume, and the fact that the 1010 has the fuel gauge, I have to agree that the GS does present the classical simplicity and under-statedness that he apparently admires. And so do I. On the other hand the functional advantages of the Citizen, its perpetual calendar, its independently adjustable hour hand do nothing to clutter the watches simplicity. It's the Eco-drive and the fuel-gauge that do.
> I'm glad not to have to choose between those two and to be able to stick contentedly with my Chronomasters.


What about the new GS Magnetic Resistant?









Lume on hands and hour markers, minute markers on the conical bezel. It seems these two brands inspire one each other .... :think:


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## dicioccio (Jul 14, 2011)

It seems A LOT similar to the Rolex Milgauss...

About the look, to me everything is perfect but the numerical on minute markers that give to the watch a less classical look.

By the way... who really cares for an increased magnetic resistance ??


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## machlo (Jun 12, 2010)

Frankly, magnetic resistant GS doesn't appeal to me. Case seams to be over complicated.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

The dial, the hands, the lume....all super, but the accuracy? It's a mechanical and seconds a day are no use to me!


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## shtora (Jan 11, 2009)

artec said:


> The dial, the hands, the lume....all super, but the accuracy? It's a mechanical and seconds a day are no use to me!


If you refer to the GS models with increased magnetic resistence, both mechanical and quartz calibres will be used in them.
The ones shown here, SBGX089 and SBGX091 are equipped with the 9F61 HEQ calibre.


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## Orex (Jul 17, 2012)

machlo said:


> Avusblue, thanks for sharing your view - it helps a lot.


If you prefer the GS dial style but the functionality of Citizen you should search the older Citizen models. The last year model had no vertical stripes and the minute markers were on the dial.


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## machlo (Jun 12, 2010)

Now, I'm almost decided on GS. I'll probably place an order soon. 
Thanks everyone for help.
As soon as I get the watch I'll post some photos.


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## Fer Guzman (Feb 10, 2012)

I like citizens more but the power thing on the eco chronomasters makes it look less busy and less elegant than the seiko


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## GlennO (Jan 3, 2010)

Love the bracelet on that Credor. Wish they still made GS's with bracelets like that.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

As a PS to my earlier comments, I don't know why you say you couldn't get the case or bracelet refinished if they were scratched? They're both steel, as is the GS, and I've found that careful hand and Dremel work can redo both brushed and polished finish on stainless.

And what's wrong with AR coating on the outside of the sapphire? I can't tell fro the photo whether the sapphire is flat or convex on either of them. I much prefer flat because there are fewer reflections. I think the sapphire on the 1020 was convex but I never had a 1010.

The dial on the 1010 gives the appearance of being grey if you look closely but I don't think there's any difference in the contrast effect between that and the GS' black. The presence of the reserve gauge is a negative for me, but I know not everyone agrees on that.


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## machlo (Jun 12, 2010)

Citizen has Duratect coating on steel, so it may be impossible to refinish.

AR on outside of a crystal is easier to scratch than sapphire crystal without AR and scratched AR looks really bad.


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## stanislav (Feb 3, 2008)

TylerDurden said:


> I'm mulling over these, and a couple other, watches too and voted for the GS here.
> 
> I love everything about the GS except for the lack on an independently adjusting hour hand and a perpetual calendar. Not that these are necessary features, but I wonder what's the purpose of having a watch accurate to 5-10 seconds per year if I need to re-set the time every month or every time I change timezones anyway? Ideally, I want an HEQ that looks like the GS, but that I only have to completely re-set the time after a battery change every three years or so. And, of course, hardened titanium is always a nice touch for both lightness and corrosion resistance. If such a GS existed, I would be practicing my (hopefully compelling) speech on the necessity of my recent acquisition in the mirror right now.
> 
> ...


GS you have to set only twice for summer time, and there is a quick date setting which makes the date change pleasant exercise, a man would like to get busy with his watch from time to time, people that like watches do not buy them to forget about them after that, the only real problem is time zone setting if you travel that often


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## Flurrpy (Dec 12, 2011)

If I were going to drop that much I'd probably get a used Air King.


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## shtora (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes, the AK is fantastic!
Unfortunately, it is not accurate enough, nor is it using any modern/interesting timekeeping method.


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## machlo (Jun 12, 2010)

FYI: I posted a few photos of Grand Seiko in Seiko Corner: https://www.watchuseek.com/f21/grand-seiko-sbgx061-786838.html


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

I know the OP only mentioned the GS and the Eco-drive The Citizen, so perhaps he has counted the earlier Chronomaster out for other reasons, in which case my point doesn't need to be made. But in my opinion, the Chronomaster has it all over the Eco-drive model in terms of aesthetics. No fuel gauge, proper black dial, nicer markers, all the functional advantages of the Eco-drive except the lack of battery change plus the 09 series are luminous and titanium. It's true that the Chronomasters often fall a little short of spec but it's also true that the difference between 5 and 10 s/y is immaterial. I've had a number of Chronomasters that had to go back to be brought into spec but none was beyond 10 s/y and GS often are.....and their warranty is only two years.


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## machlo (Jun 12, 2010)

Actually, ctq57-0955 would have been perfect for me without lume.


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