# custom logo (letters) printing on sterile dial? silkscreen or other?



## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

Hi,
I was just curious if anyone has any ideas on where to have some sterile dials printed/silkscreened whatever, on a sterile dial (like anything from MKII yobokies , ray, etc etc

This is NOT for any kind of business endeavor, and simply for a fun family project idea.

We don't need a whole custom dial....just a basically a few letters printed on a sterile dial......professionally done with a windows font we already chose and have on disc ready to provide to any printer. 

We want this pristine like any retail watch. I am weary that if we were to have a local custom graphics shop do this that they may screw up/scratch some dials that are not so easy to replace cost wise

We may also want the casebacks etched or engraved with the same, and I imagine this is maybe easier to have done....but we'll figure that out later.

Only looking for like half a dozen done.

Thanks for any ideas and suggestions.


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

er.....uh....what do you mean by a "sterile dial"?


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## bjohnson (Nov 28, 2006)

"sterile dial" - A term made popular by the ...... Militaire "homages" that have been pursued by Panerai (WUS won't even let me post the first part of the name)

One solution was to remove any brand information off the dial (aka "sterile dial")


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

bjohnson said:


> "sterile dial" - A term made popular by the ...... Militaire "homages" that have been pursued by Panerai (WUS won't even let me post the first part of the name)
> 
> One solution was to remove any brand information off the dial (aka "sterile dial")


Let me try to get this straight...is this another way of saying "watch dial with no brand name on it"?

Here's a dead simple way to put a name on: get press type and put the name on that way. There's even a company that makes a very wide assortment of press type (rub on type) for restoring old American clock dials including ornaments, brand names and numbers.

As long as you don't touch it with your fingers, press type is a durable and quick way to put a name or figures on a dial.

By the way, I think "Presstype" may even be a brand name of Pantone, the leading color specifying system in the world. Just ask for Presstype at your graphics art store and they should have it.


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## bjohnson (Nov 28, 2006)

Somewhere else said:


> Let me try to get this straight...is this another way of saying "watch dial with no brand name on it"?


yes


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

bjohnson said:


> "sterile dial" - A term made popular by the ...... Militaire "homages" that have been pursued by Panerai (WUS won't even let me post the first part of the name)
> 
> )


I'm fairly certain the term has been widely used for maybe decades... by collectors of miltary style watches, modders and OEM watch and parts suppliers of of such watch styles...Benrus, Ollech Wajs, RLT, Traser, Marathon....etc

I think even at one time or another Breitling and Omega, and maybe a number of other mainstream luxury companies that have maybe issued 1 off custom watches to military ....with watches that have "sterile" dials, that lack certain markings or all markings


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

bigvatch said:


> I'm fairly certain the term has been widely used for maybe decades... by collectors of miltary style watches, modders and OEM watch and parts suppliers of of such watch styles...Benrus, Ollech Wajs, RLT, Traser, Marathon....etc
> 
> I think even at one time or another Breitling and Omega, and maybe a number of other mainstream luxury companies that have maybe issued 1 off custom watches to military ....with watches that have "sterile" dials, that lack certain markings or all markings


Decades? I've been in the watch business for decades including being associated with both Benrus and O & W. First time I ever heard it. Proves that there's always something new to learn out there.


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

Somewhere else said:


> Decades? I've been in the watch business for decades including being associated with both Benrus and O & W. First time I ever heard it. Proves that there's always something new to learn out there.


I honestly don't know when the term started to be used as such, but I know atleast 2 OW ADs that use this term "sterile" dial....namely on the vintage unbranded MP-2801 ....and various other brands

And seems to be common to refer to them like this....among collectors..

http://www.50717.com/us/benrus-sterile-1.html
http://scubawatch.org/type1.html

Just guessing maybe the term refers to watches intended for military issue, but without markings....so maybe I learn something :-!


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

bigvatch said:


> Just guessing maybe the term refers to watches intended for military issue, but without markings....so maybe I learn something :-!


I have never, in my entire career, seen a genuine military watch without markings and with identity on the dial.At one time or another I've had something to do with military watches in the USA, the UK, India and Turkey and never seen one without markings, all of which were specified by the various Ministries of Defense in those countries.


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

Somewhere else said:


> I have never, in my entire career, seen a genuine military watch without markings and with identity on the dial.At one time or another I've had something to do with military watches in the USA, the UK, India and Turkey and never seen one without markings, all of which were specified by the various Ministries of Defense in those countries.


But you have seen atleast some of the offerings that have unbranded dials...from let's say... Marathon right?

And for my own knowledge, what makes a watch a genuine military watch?


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## cowboy (Feb 11, 2006)

bigvatch said:


> And for my own knowledge, what makes a watch a genuine military watch?


The arm that wears it...;-)


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## bjohnson (Nov 28, 2006)

cowboy said:


> The arm that wears it...;-)


Agreed.


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

cowboy said:


> The arm that wears it...;-)


'
That would make a lot of Casio G-shocks "authentic military watches" then!


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

Somewhere else said:


> Let me try to get this straight...is this another way of saying "watch dial with no brand name on it"?
> 
> Here's a dead simple way to put a name on: get press type and put the name on that way. There's even a company that makes a very wide assortment of press type (rub on type) for restoring old American clock dials including ornaments, brand names and numbers.
> 
> ...


yes.....just another way of saying ...no logo, no no brand name.........like dials that MKII (Bill yao), Yobokies, etc offer for customizing certain seiko and eta-based watches

We plan to use MKII dials (no logos).

Can this press type material be custom printed with a font of our choosing like from any common PC computer....that a graphics shop may use?


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## jalind (Sep 3, 2007)

bigvatch said:


> '
> That would make a lot of Casio G-shocks "authentic military watches" then!


And Suunto as well . . . although not in quite as many numbers.


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

jalind said:


> And Suunto as well . . . although not in quite as many numbers.


 Agreed.......on the WUS Suunto forum and Suunto's forum, I've encountered a handful of military folk.

A friend of a friend who is a Naval flight commander happend to be wearing Suunto Vector when I was lucky to have a tour of their base.

I happend to wear an all black Core every day as my sport watch


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## jalind (Sep 3, 2007)

Somewhere else said:


> I have never, in my entire career, seen a genuine military watch without markings and with identity on the dial.At one time or another I've had something to do with military watches in the USA, the UK, India and Turkey and never seen one without markings, all of which were specified by the various Ministries of Defense in those countries.


Agreed! If the U.S. DoD had put any more markings on the back of the Hammy I wore for about 15 years, and still wanted to maintain legibility of them, they'd have had to increase the watch diameter. Dial had nothing but indices and the ubiquitous "radioactive materials" symbol. On the back, though, is a complete novel. There was absolutely no doubt where it had come from, who had made it, who (govt agency) had bought it, the contract under which it was purchased, the year in which that occurred, the Mil-Spec it was made to conform to, and the manufacturer's name (in this case, Hamilton, and last but not least, a stock number (NSN or FSN) under which one could requisition a replacement if it broke.


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

What makes an authentic military watch:
1) It is ordered by the Ministry of Defense of the Country concerned.
2) It is issued as standard equipment with a standard reference number.
3)It has verifiable markings that prove it to be such

This is how watch collectors view military watches.

For all the rest you can say "military style" if you want.


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

jalind said:


> Agreed! If the U.S. DoD had put any more markings on the back of the Hammy I wore for about 15 years, and still wanted to maintain legibility of them, they'd have had to increase the watch diameter. Dial had nothing but indices and the ubiquitous "radioactive materials" symbol. On the back, though, is a complete novel. There was absolutely no doubt where it had come from, who had made it, who (govt agency) had bought it, the contract under which it was purchased, the year in which that occurred, the Mil-Spec it was made to conform to, and the manufacturer's name (in this case, Hamilton, and last but not least, a stock number (NSN or FSN) under which one could requisition a replacement if it broke.


all on the caseback

*BENRUS TYPE I CLASS A MILITARY AUTOMATIC WATCH FROM DECEMBER 1973.. MIL-W-50717.. CONTRACT NO. DAAA25-72-C-0528..










*


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## skoochy (Jan 6, 2009)

I believe "sterile" is a term more used in the intelligence community (which was my father's area) but is also used by some military forces (my friend is a special forces extraction team sniper and has some "sterile" equipment). And I believe the term has been in use at least since the 50s.

This generic term has now been applied to watches for certain models, but doesn't imply that there are issued military watches with no markings. It's just a term that's been applied when finding dials with no markings.

-s-


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

skoochy said:


> I believe "sterile" is a term more used in the intelligence community (which was my father's area) but is also used by some military forces (my friend is a special forces extraction team sniper and has some "sterile" equipment). And I believe the term has been in use at least since the 50s.
> 
> This generic term has now been applied to watches for certain models, but doesn't imply that there are issued military watches with no markings. It's just a term that's been applied when finding dials with no markings.
> 
> -s-


I agree. I know that the term 'sterile' is generically used nowadays to apply to certain watches that are free of brand marking, logos, etc.......mostly dials.......but sometimes also casebacks (which are nearly all from generic brands)

But "unbranded" dials seemed historically mostly unique to known "authentic military issued " variety.......namely Type I and Type II Benrus and Hamilton, Stocker and Yale, some Marathon.......and way back to Laco etc.....as rare as they may be.

So IMO it is logical to assume where the term comes from.


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## skoochy (Jan 6, 2009)

What's your budget for having this done? Have you considered buying a pad printing kit and printing the dials yourself, as you're concerned about damage to the dials if you outsource it?

Pad printing will be easier to do in small runs by yourself than silk screening. It would require an investment of about $200 (depending on where you find a beginner kit), so it might be cheaper to buy backup dials in case some are damaged if you outsource it.

-s-


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

skoochy said:


> What's your budget for having this done? Have you considered buying a pad printing kit and printing the dials yourself, as you're concerned about damage to the dials if you outsource it?
> 
> Pad printing will be easier to do in small runs by yourself than silk screening. It would require an investment of about $200 (depending on where you find a beginner kit), so it might be cheaper to buy backup dials in case some are damaged if you outsource it.
> 
> -s-


per watch, the max we would want to spend is maybe $400-$500, for the entire finished watch

We were thinking about maybe kit watches at Ofrei with 2824-2 or 6497 mechanicals, but with some unbranded dials like MKII or other pilot style or type II mil style.....$20-$50 per dial we figure + whatever we want done to dial and caseback .

Is this the process you are referring to?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pad_printing

sounds very interesting ....


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## HilltopMichael (Mar 5, 2008)

Somewhere else said:


> I have never, in my entire career, seen a genuine military watch without markings and with identity on the dial.


The original German B-Uhrs didn't have any text on the dial.


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

HilltopMichael said:


> The original German B-Uhrs didn't have any text on the dial.


And at the opposite end of the collector value spectrum, and the much easier to find Stocker & Yale military issue watches, of all the different issue models, it appears none of them had branding on the dial other then the tritium symbol .


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

bigvatch said:


> per watch, the max we would want to spend is maybe $400-$500, for the entire finished watch
> 
> We were thinking about maybe kit watches at Ofrei with 2824-2 or 6497 mechanicals, but with some unbranded dials like MKII or other pilot style or type II mil style.....$20-$50 per dial we figure + whatever we want done to dial and caseback .
> 
> ...


Speaking as someone who has done a certain amount of dial printing using pad printing, there's quite a bit more to than you may imagine. What you are in is the realm of printing, not watchmaking. They are quite different.

If you are like me and were fortunate enough to have a number of print shop classes in high school, I don't think it's anything that you can't handle.

But this IS printing, just like using a letterset or any other type of printing press.


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## bjohnson (Nov 28, 2006)

bigvatch said:


> per watch, the max we would want to spend is maybe $400-$500, for the entire finished watch
> 
> We were thinking about maybe kit watches at Ofrei with 2824-2 or 6497 mechanicals, but with some unbranded dials like MKII or other pilot style or type II mil style.....$20-$50 per dial we figure + whatever we want done to dial and caseback .
> 
> ...


Have you investigated using a dial printing service like International Dial?


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

bjohnson said:


> Have you investigated using a dial printing service like International Dial?


interesting as well....thanks for the tip, will have to check them out..

http://www.internationaldialco.com/Pages/Public/Default.aspx

All we really want to do is put a few letters on the dials with a commonly known fancy font....so maybe they can do that pretty easily

will certainly check them out further..thanks


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## bigvatch (Sep 25, 2007)

Somewhere else said:


> Speaking as someone who has done a certain amount of dial printing using pad printing, there's quite a bit more to than you may imagine. What you are in is the realm of printing, not watchmaking. They are quite different.
> 
> If you are like me and were fortunate enough to have a number of print shop classes in high school, I don't think it's anything that you can't handle.
> 
> But this IS printing, just like using a letterset or any other type of printing press.


No I personal don't have any kind of experience in printing. I do however have a close friend that has a long background in graphics/illustration that is always involved with some kind of project for personal and work. He did once mention that I would be probably be making a "vector graphics file" as opposed to some kind of image file...

I have another friend that uses a lot of CAD etc...so if I go the route of totally blank dial, maybe that would be fun

Yeah sounds like a lot of work for the DIY route...but good to atleast get an idea of what is sort of involved......thanks

thanks!


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## skoochy (Jan 6, 2009)

bigvatch said:


> No I personal don't have any kind of experience in printing. I do however have a close friend that has a long background in graphics/illustration that is always involved with some kind of project for personal and work. He did once mention that I would be probably be making a "vector graphics file" as opposed to some kind of image file...
> 
> I have another friend that uses a lot of CAD etc...so if I go the route of totally blank dial, maybe that would be fun
> 
> ...


If you're trying to set up a whole pad printing operation, yes, it is a lot of work to get an automatic multicolor machine up and running on a single substrate and then change it for other colors and substrates.

If you're trying to do pad printing with a DIY kit, then no, it's by definition intended to be DIY, so someone who has a graphics design (esp. screen printing) background or is good at following instructions can easily use those kits, especially if you do not require precision registration.

-s-


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## Somewhere else (Feb 17, 2006)

bigvatch said:


> interesting as well....thanks for the tip, will have to check them out..
> 
> http://www.internationaldialco.com/Pages/Public/Default.aspx
> 
> ...


This is the best option of all. Unless you are ready to commit yourself to your hobby, pad printing, like letterset printing, takes a commitment. An estimate of "around $200" really puzzles me too. Even the least expensive pad printing machines start in the $ 400 to 500 range. Then there is ink, printing plates, various tools, solvents, etc. Think more in the $ 1,000 range for the whole thing.

I expect to be posting a few dials I made soon by off set printing. That's the same method as is used to print tin cans.


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## bjohnson (Nov 28, 2006)

Somewhere else said:


> I expect to be posting a few dials I made soon by off set printing. That's the same method as is used to print tin cans.


I'm looking forward to seeing them.


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## pnut (Sep 7, 2006)

Just a quick reply - check out this place, they make or modify any dial to your liking.

http://www.bedforddials.co.uk/home

I am not affiliated.


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