# Zenith gets little respect



## WatchGeek

In my opinion, Zenith is one of the best watch brands because of the in-house El Primero movement. One would think that Zenith would be held in high regard and have a very good resale value, however when compared to other brands like JLC, Breguet, Blancpain, Vacheron Constantin, and even many fashion brands, the resale value just isn't there. 

I am beginning to believe that the resale value of watches has nothing to do with the quality of the in-house movement or watchmaking workmanship. It seems that the resale value is determine by marketing hype generated by the company's marketing machine. For example, the movement used in Rolex watches is not any better than the Zenith El Primero movement, however even an uncomplicated Rolex watch has a much better resale value than a Zenith Chronomaster Moonphase with many complications. 

I would really appreciate hearing some thoughts on this issue. 

Thanks, 

-Jim


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## longtimelurker

It doesn't have anything to do with watchmaking, workmanship, or quality. 
It is determined by the perception of value. That can include perceptions of those things. But it often is determined by the perception of brand cache, exclusivity, heritage, and design.


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## Hartmut Richter

Unfortunately, it has a lot to do with advertising. Zenith spend little on advertising (and never really did do). When was the last time you saw a Zenith advert in the glossies? Do you know any Zenith brand ambassador? During the Nataf era, there was a little more of that but now, it's back to what it used to be. In contrast, you see Rolex and Omega adverts everywhere, Wilsdorf once reserved the front page of the Daily Mail for the Oyster ad with Mercedes Gleitze and I see Rolex sponsorship ads for scientific research or explorations in every National Geographic plus elsewhere. Always subtly hinting that "Rolex is the best watch in the world" until everyone believes it (except those who really do know something about watches).

In a way, that's actually quite good: the money saved that way can be spent on research and development or passed on to the customer (cheaper watches). But it can get to the point that it is detrimental. I am not in favour of adverts everywhere but I do wish that Zenith would push activities such as Felix Baumgartner sponsorship and general brand ambassadors a little more. Plus make more of the new oscillator escapement and the like and push that into public appreciation. Also, in view of the fact that you can save money and can pass on the reduction to the customer, push through a system of "no discounts" (like Rolex). It hurts the customers a little but pushes resale value and heightens credibility.

Hartmut Richter


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## johnmrson

I think Zenith are a great watch but you rarely see them advertised anywhere. I'd love a blue dial annual calendar Captain Winsor at some stage.


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## palletwheel

This:









Auctions: An Incomplete, Completely Subjective Analysis Of The Phillips Racing Pulse Sale


Our founder calls out eight lots that raised a few eyebrows – and presents both sides of the argument.




www.hodinkee.com





And its ok. Speedmasters are for guys who want to be astronauts, Daytonas are for guys who want to be Paul Newman, Chronomasters are for folks who just love horology.

Fortunately there are enough of the last to buy other great pieces besides Chronomasters and keep Zenith in business.


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## BundyBear

As a person who admires Zenith from afar, I can’t help but agree with all the points made above. Besides brand perception and marketing, Zenith also needs to put in place a good after sales service / support structure.

There is only one Zenith dealer where I am, and of course, he dictates the price, so no discount but why bother when I can buy online from elsewhere? Then there is the poor service support here. No reason to buy a Zenith if the total ownership experience is going to leave one with a sour after taste.


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## ZisguyZaphod

Believe me! I know how Zenith feels!
No respect!!


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## zigg

It is painful to see such a brand in a position they are now. It wouldn't take much marketing to inform the public about their achievements - and there are many. It's not like you would have to come up with some made up stories, these guys could literally just go through their achievements and that would be a very good start.

But then, as mentioned already, we have the ADs. The only one in my city is a complete waste of time. I enquired about a bracelet with end links for a Defy Classic and they told me the watch will have to be sent to Zenith every time I want to change the strap. And end links cannot be bought and are 'leased' from Zenith itself. This is what an AD told me! How ridiculous is that?

And then there is the Xtreme line. I think a fairly conservative brand such as Zenith does not do any good to themselves releasing such a line of watches. Maybe if it was Ulysse Nardin, but Zenith?


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## Mirabello1

Zenith are great but nobody knows who they are, People I know associate zenith with the TV makers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gverso

Well, It has to do with the previous President T Nataf marketing and fuss around this venerable manufacture. 
It went from unknown to bling-bling gansta (I'm being extreme here). But clearly it was a very decent brand with in-house exclusive caliber, to the other extreme show-off brand positioning. 
It takes time to build reputation and respect, but you can damage it a lot faster. 
Today's price new, and watch range/collection, is extremely well positioned, in my opinion. But it will take time to restore the image next to IWC or Jaeger.


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## Mediocre

The El Primero is also a bit long in the tooth, partially due to age and partially because Zenith has allowed it.

I respect Zenith greatly, but they lack the portfolio strength of their stronger competitors. The marketing Hartmut mentioned is an important piece of it, which has limited market knowledge (therefore market embracing) of their alternate offerings.


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## One-Seventy

It's partly because no-one cares, but mainly because it doesn't have a flexing brand following on Insta, isn't pumped heavily in advertisements, Zenith doesn't pay people to take their stuff onto the movie screen, and doesn't sponsor much. Popularity is zilch to do with intrinsic quality and all about the power of being seen with the brand. Zenith won't be cool and popular until millies are showing off their wrists on social meeja "rocking" a "Zen". Personally I quite like it the way it is, but I know some want to see the brand with more coverage.

Also "ooh the El Primero" is a shibboleth spoken by people who've just joined a watch forum. They're not interested in actually buying one, just talking about it. Like it opens a door or something.


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## One-Seventy

Mediocre said:


> The El Primero is also a bit long in the tooth, partially due to age and partially because Zenith has allowed it.


I agree, although to balance this Zenith has brought out the 3600 El P, which has a 60 hour reserve, a unique - properly actually "unique" - 10-second chrono sweep and (finally!) a hacking function. And it still keeps the bits that made it good in the first place. I hope to see this in regular production in future.


> I respect Zenith greatly, but they lack the portfolio strength of their stronger competitors. The marketing Hartmut mentioned is an important piece of it, which has limited market knowledge (therefore market embracing) of their alternate offerings.


Agreed. No dive watch, which is a no-no for sporty young men who only seem to wear dive watches in bars (dive bars, maybe?). The pilot is either too demure at 40mm, or too large at 45/48mm, and it wouldn't hurt to give the Chronomaster a screw-down crown. The Elite comes and goes, with no anchor models or designs, and there are entirely too many limited editions. The historical reissues are too small for flexing on Tha 'Gram and many of the limited editions are toys, rather than watches to wear (the recent Pilot Blueprint, for example).

Lack of longevity in the range is what hurts the most. the tri-colour Chronomaster is about as close as it gets, and I've seen even few of these in the wild than Speedmasters!


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## zigg

Imagine if Zenith sponsored some sport events with the El P 21 with this beautiful 1 sec chrono. It makes so much sense, why hide such a gem.

As mentioned though, it leaves the brand to watch fans and people in the know. Although it feels good to see a company doing well. I love Oris and it really feels good to see their developments and makes you even more proud of owning one. And most people still don't even know what Oris is, namely a lady at my local Zenith AD!


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## IlyaV

Mirabello1 said:


> Zenith are great but nobody knows who they are, People I know associate zenith with the TV makers


When Russians see my zenith defy they ask at first "what is it?"and Then the second question follows "a-a-ah, right! I heard something about it, the Russian watches?"
All "zenith"-sounding we had was a Soviet photocamera and and an activefootball club(the humor is the club partnered with Corum years ago).
Tbh I fear that this defy I have still my only zenith watch. I don't like pilot, I don't need new defy, I don't appreciate classic/elite/etc, i even doubt buying chronomaster/espada/synopsis - another watch with (almost) the same caliber. 
the zero-G in old defy case is literally a dream, Christophe Colombo is obviously inaccessible(


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## IlyaV

zigg said:


> Imagine if Zenith sponsored some sport events with the El P 21 with this beautiful 1 sec chrono. It makes so much sense, why hide such a gem.
> 
> As mentioned though, it leaves the brand to watch fans and people in the know. Although it feels good to see a company doing well. I love Oris and it really feels good to see their developments and makes you even more proud of owning one. And most people still don't even know what Oris is, namely a lady at my local Zenith AD!


I think I have an answer - zenith as a part of LVMH watch division isn't free in making marketing strategy on its own, it's always the in-group brand positioning at first place. Look at tag and hublot - every way of being promoted is used


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## Buddy2

Zenith is about technology. It's not a lifestyle brand. Theirin lies its value weakness. It's for nerds, oops I meant watch officionados 😀 Sales staff once told me how they are trained to know the type of customer that Zenith attracts i.e the off beat watch nerd so as to understand them to appeal to the type.
Marketing for nerds don't work the same way and Zenith knows it.
But now I see a change. It's becoming a fashionable brand, just look at their new Defy models in pink, and the rainbow with diamonds. Personally I love the direction. Who needs advertising when there is social media. I suspect that's where their marketing department is targetting.


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## palletwheel

In all honesty I like the brand the way it is. Ok, maybe I am a watch nerd  But what's wrong with a down to earth brand that actually makes a superior product that has substance and does not charge you for the "privilege" of owning one? It is only a matter of time before the current Swiss marketing playbook implodes. It was not all that long ago that you would walk into a dealer and negotiate prices for any watch, Patek and Rolex included. So I'd suggest that Zenith keep doing its superior product thing at "reasonable" cost (or at least what passes these days for fine watches) and slowly expand by having its quality made known. A little bit of sharp marketing can go a long way. Eventually people realize that wearing watch X won't make their breath any sweeter, their sex life any better, and whatever other magic they are being plied with. Eventually they finally look down and really look at their watch and notice the time is way different from their cell phone's and they don't really like the way it looks anyway. If you buy a mechanical watch for status, you'll eventually feel foolish especially if you live in a society where no one cares.


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## espresso&watches

WatchGeek said:


> I am beginning to believe that the resale value of watches has nothing to do with the quality of the in-house movement or watchmaking workmanship. It seems that the resale value is determine by marketing hype generated by the company's marketing machine.


I've always thought this was self-evident...

I agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread, but that's precisely what has attracted me to Zenith. There's no insufferable marketing trying to make it into a lifestyle brand, celebrity endorsements, etc. etc. - it's a brand for those in the know. And if you buy second hand, you're getting a whole lot a watch for your $. Personally I hope they stay that way.


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## One-Seventy

espresso&watches said:


> I agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread, but that's precisely what has attracted me to Zenith. There's no insufferable marketing trying to make it into a lifestyle brand, celebrity endorsements, etc. etc. - it's a brand for those in the know. And if you buy second hand, you're getting a whole lot a watch for your $. Personally I hope they stay that way.


Yup. Over on the Flex forum they're listing their toys in order of Insta hotness and cash return potential. Oh, and does looking after your watch ruin value retention. And do I have to pleasure the AD. I don't remember the last time a question about watches was asked there. There isn't so much as a gap to Zenith as a vast, cavernous gulf.


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## ppluissz

Never has the resale value been based on quality, all about demand. Zenith is just not as popular as the other brands. 

Sent from my SM-N9600 using Tapatalk


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## Carrot01

to Hell with resale, I'm buying a Defy classic skeleton on titanium bracelet tomorrow


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## zigg

Nice one, did you manage to find it for the price you wanted? I found a barely used one here in UK and collecting it after the restrictions are lifted.


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## Carrot01

zigg said:


> Nice one, did you manage to find it for the price you wanted? I found a barely used one here in UK and collecting it after the restrictions are lifted.


Yes, its 3 weeks old & a 9.9/10 apparently. $6000 USD in total cost to me - believe me thats a good deal here in Australia.
Thanks


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## Age_of_Surfaces

It's not all about marketing, folks.

Whenever I visit specialist watch boutiques - the sort that don't carry Rolex watches because everyone else does - I typically find Zenith watches rubbing shoulders with Czapek, Gronefeld, Habring2, Parmigiani Fleurier, Urban Urgensen, Voutilainen and so on. The people responsible for this inventory understand that certain brands have characteristics that appeal to - for want of a better word - connoisseurs.

Its not about price either. They select models from brands at different price points that fit within the identity they want to cultivate as independent retailers too. They work hard with brand representatives to ensure their staff are conversant and informed. This conscious approach to brand selection is confirmed in my conversations with store owners and staff. These conversations convey only respect for Zenith watches.

I've spoken directly with Zenith's heritage department in Le Locle (just three months ago, in fact). I've had extended conversations with in-country brand marketing representatives. I've spoken with people who've designed some of their watches. I've interacted with some incredibly knowledgeable people on WUS. From all of these interactions my take away is that Zenith is a mid-sized brand with a fantastic history and plenty of well wishers among collectors and market actors alike.

Does Zenith overcook some of its models? Yes, unfortunately it does with the El Primero hash and rehash. It's trying to emulate Rolex with its Submariner or Omega with its Speedmaster, and has to be careful not to dilute its appeal. For now, though, this hasn't detracted from the depth of regard for the brand among people who appreciate important watches.

p.s. Resale value is possibly the worst metric we can use to judge the long-term value of a brand. That's how Zenith Radio approached its ownership of Zenith Watches in the early 1970s - people who fixated on the price of everything and the value of nothing.


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## espresso&watches

Age_of_Surfaces said:


> It's not all about marketing, folks.


For the general public, it is. For the watch nerd (like most of us here), it's not. Two very different audiences.


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## One-Seventy

Carrot01 said:


> to Hell with resale


That's fightin' talk these days! Don'tcha know that "trueeeee" Watch Investment Seekers only buy hot steel that generates a positive margin?


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## Carrot01

Hi


One-Seventy said:


> That's fightin' talk these days! Don'tcha know that "trueeeee" Watch Investment Seekers only buy hot steel that generates a positive margin?


i hear you, but I just buy what I like. I've made very good $ trading/flipping classic muscle cars as that's what I know. 
First picture of my new Defy classic


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## Age_of_Surfaces

espresso&watches said:


> For the general public, it is. For the watch nerd (like most of us here), it's not. Two very different audiences.


True.


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## ed21x

In terms of resale value, there are many higher tier brands that don't keep their value at all- Lange, VC, Piaget, not to mention Omega, Bell and Ross, Tag, etc 
It is purely based on demand, which is unfortunately driven by advertising and brand cachet over anything else.


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## palletwheel

Zenith watches are great products, period. It therefore is a brand for people who actually want to buy a watch, and not a BS Instagram lifestyle. This may not be the considered contemporary marketing approach, but guess what, quality (with a requisite amount of intelligent marketing) will win the day.


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## Birky1

I own one Zenith Defy, a Rolex Air King and a Tag Heuer WK1211 
And like them all equally and never thought of resale price























Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## EnderW

Resale does not matter to me ... but it is a leading indicator of brand "perception" (aka demand).
It's unfortunate that Zenith is not viewed us a top tier brand, but understandable. Lack of marketing, lack of ambassadors, poor distribution network - while they may not be major factors for watch enthusiasts, they do hurt brand awareness. And while I love my EP, and I love that it's going to be recognized by true watch enthusiasts, for majority of population it's just not a known brand.
While I'd love to live in a utopian world where things are valued on true quality, reality is that perception and image matters in this crazy world.
I would by no way want to see some IG "influencer" or YT "Star" promoting Zenith - that would be quite disgusting. But they do need to do a better job of marketing. And move away from over-reliance on a 50 year old El Primero. (Defy Lab and cal 21 are a good start)
With new oscillator in defy lab - they should be the most talked about brand, yet that discussion died out few years back as it was not sustained.

I hoped JCB would push the brand way more, but alas they struggle with recognition. Of course it makes for a great value for us.
Comparing Defy Classic vs AP RO\VC Overseas - the value prop is insane. Same for EP vs Speedy and chronos from VC\AP. (perhaps closest good value chrono is Breguet type XX, which is also crazy undervalued)


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## DesmoIsland

EnderW said:


> Resale does not matter to me ... but it is a leading indicator of brand "perception" (aka demand).
> It's unfortunate that Zenith is not viewed us a top tier brand, but understandable. Lack of marketing, lack of ambassadors, poor distribution network - while they may not be major factors for watch enthusiasts, they do hurt brand awareness. And while I love my EP, and I love that it's going to be recognized by true watch enthusiasts, for majority of population it's just not a known brand.
> While I'd love to live in a utopian world where things are valued on true quality, reality is that perception and image matters in this crazy world.
> I would by no way want to see some IG "influencer" or YT "Star" promoting Zenith - that would be quite disgusting. But they do need to do a better job of marketing. And move away from over-reliance on a 50 year old El Primero. (Defy Lab and cal 21 are a good start)
> With new oscillator in defy lab - they should be the most talked about brand, yet that discussion died out few years back as it was not sustained.
> 
> I hoped JCB would push the brand way more, but alas they struggle with recognition. Of course it makes for a great value for us.
> Comparing Defy Classic vs AP RO\VC Overseas - the value prop is insane. Same for EP vs Speedy and chronos from VC\AP. (perhaps closest good value chrono is Breguet type XX, which is also crazy undervalued)


JCB is retired


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## montelatici

Not so sure that Zenith does not get respect from watch aficionados. It is perhaps the only mid-level watch that Rolex fans (collectors), the few that own Rolexes that are not the status seeking poseurs, respect. Probably because their vaunted Daytona used our movement for more than a decade. In any case, my Rainbow is tied with my Panerai Luminor Marina as my favorite watch to wear and admire, far above my two Rolexes. I know that when there is a thread header talking chronos on Facebook or here in the public forum, no Rolex fan comments when I mention that I prefer my Zenith Rainbow to any Daytona.


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## Cincy2

I've discovered a piece from this brand that really appeals to me. I love oversize watches. This one is a whopping 48mm. Does anyone have an opinion on reliability of these? I'm not sure it matters much to me as the aesthetics ring my chimes.

Thanks
Cincy


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## Hartmut Richter

Well, it's a _tourbillon _so it should be a little more delicate than the normal thing (but that ought to apply to most _tourbillons_ - although some people have reported going golfing with such things on their wrists). What makes this _tourbillon _nice is that it's in house - most _tourbillon _escapements are outsourced by their makers and then worked into their movements. Of the mid-tier brands, JLC and Zenith are two that make them themselves, which allows them to offer them more cheaply than a lot of the others do.

Hartmut Richter


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## Cincy2

I loved the overall size and layout but this version is more aesthetically pleasing.


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## Vuldric

Cincy2 said:


> I loved the overall size and layout but this version is more aesthetically pleasing.


How did it wear? I have been close to pulling the trigger on one of these, but was turned off by the diameter + crown.


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## Cincy2

Vuldric said:


> How did it wear? I have been close to pulling the trigger on one of these, but was turned off by the diameter + crown.


Vuldric,

Delivery is forecasted for week of 18 January. I will post a full review in this forum.

Cincy


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## WTSP

WatchGeek said:


> In my opinion, Zenith is one of the best watch brands because of the in-house El Primero movement. One would think that Zenith would be held in high regard and have a very good resale value, however when compared to other brands like JLC, Breguet, Blancpain, Vacheron Constantin, and even many fashion brands, the resale value just isn't there.
> 
> I am beginning to believe that the resale value of watches has nothing to do with the quality of the in-house movement or watchmaking workmanship. It seems that the resale value is determine by marketing hype generated by the company's marketing machine. For example, the movement used in Rolex watches is not any better than the Zenith El Primero movement, however even an uncomplicated Rolex watch has a much better resale value than a Zenith Chronomaster Moonphase with many complications.
> 
> I would really appreciate hearing some thoughts on this issue.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Jim


Zenith's resale values are usually just fine. It's the MSRP that's the problem, but that's common to almost all watch brands and models other than Rolex.

Take a tri-colour Zenith Chronomaster in either 42 mm or 38 mm. Say you paid USD $4k to $5k eight to ten years ago, it's still worth that now (so long as it's in good condition). The MSRP may have jumped from $6k to 7 to 8 (maybe also dropped back to 6 and is now back to 8), but that's a price setting issue. Look at Zenith Rainbow chronos from the early 2000s, they sell for $2.5k to $4k depending on the model, and that's been consistent for a while. I've been impressed to see how the Defy diver models from the Nataf era still command $4 to $5k used. Prices for peak value models like the vintage A386 or A384 have been rising to meet and even exceed five figures.

Where you get nailed is models and designs that don't stand the test of time as well. This applies regardless of brand. In the Zenith stable I think the Port Royal models from the Nataf era have not done very well, often selling at or even below $2k for Chronos. The Concord Impresario models with the El Primero often sell for less than $2k, which goes to show the combined influence of brand and styling.

People don't realize to what extent Rolex is a massive exception. To quote Jean-Claude Biver when talking about managing a watch brand, don't compare yourself to Rolex, it's like looking directly at the sun and you'll be blinded when setting your strategy. Many many watch brands make the mistake of setting prices relative to more popular competitors. Rolex is one of the top ten most valuable brands in the world. Zenith is thousands of levels lower, it has an infinitesimal fraction of Rolex' brand value, but Zenith's MSRPs are only 40% or 50% lower which leads to discounting.

Think of Rolex as something like a stable currency like the US dollar, Euro or Yen while the other watch brands are like smaller less stable ones likes the Canadian dollar, Thai bhat, or Egyptian pound. There are far more small unstable currencies than large stable ones. The watch market is a bit like that. It doesn't make a brand a failure, it's normal.


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## Hartmut Richter

WTSP said:


> Zenith's resale values are usually just fine. It's the MSRP that's the problem, but that's common to almost all watch brands and models other than Rolex.
> 
> Take a tri-colour Zenith Chronomaster in either 42 mm or 38 mm. Say you paid USD $4k to $5k eight to ten years ago, it's still worth that now (so long as it's in good condition). The MSRP may have jumped from $6k to 7 to 8 (maybe also dropped back to 6 and is now back to 8), but that's a price setting issue. Look at Zenith Rainbow chronos from the early 2000s, they sell for $2.5k to $4k depending on the model, and that's been consistent for a while. I've been impressed to see how the Defy diver models from the Nataf era still command $4 to $5k used. Prices for peak value models like the vintage A386 or A384 have been rising to meet and even exceed five figures.
> 
> Where you get nailed is models and designs that don't stand the test of time as well. This applies regardless of brand. In the Zenith stable I think the Port Royal models from the Nataf era have not done very well, often selling at or even below $2k for Chronos. The Concord Impresario models with the El Primero often sell for less than $2k, which goes to show the combined influence of brand and styling.
> 
> People don't realize to what extent Rolex is a massive exception. To quote Jean-Claude Biver when talking about managing a watch brand, don't compare yourself to Rolex, it's like looking directly at the sun and you'll be blinded when setting your strategy. Many many watch brands make the mistake of setting prices relative to more popular competitors. Rolex is one of the top ten most valuable brands in the world. Zenith is thousands of levels lower, it has an infinitesimal fraction of Rolex' brand value, but Zenith's MSRPs are only 40% or 50% lower which leads to discounting.
> 
> Think of Rolex as something like a stable currency like the US dollar, Euro or Yen while the other watch brands are like smaller less stable ones likes the Canadian dollar, Thai bhat, or Egyptian pound. There are far more small unstable currencies than large stable ones. The watch market is a bit like that. It doesn't make a brand a failure, it's normal.


There is a fair amount of truth in all this but it's only part of the truth. Yes, none of the luxury brands takes as low a margin as Rolex (two decades or so ago, I saw ca. 35% being quoted, about double that for the likes of Zenith and Omega and more than 100% margin for PP - BTW, the "margin" is the additional profit the brand takes after all production costs have been accounted for, the sum of the two being the price that they sell it to the AD for, he then takes a further margin which for Rolex is fixed, i.e. he can't give a rebate). But then, none of the luxury brands except Omega has such a vast output as Rolex - what they lose on profit percentage, they gain on volume. It also means that only they can afford to make everything in house (including cases, dials, balance springs, etc.) - if you set all that production up for 10000 watches a year, these will have to cost a fortune to get the investment back. And Omega solves the problem by being part of the Swatch group - if you take that into account, they also make rather more "in house" than Zenith & Co.

The bottom line is that, in order to be as successful as Rolex, you first have to become like Rolex, at least in all these senses. And then, you take a fair risk of not succeeding and your company going bankrupt! But then, if you don't go down that road, you at least have the assurance that your watches will only be sold in luxury stores and not on all street corners. When I was in the Philippines, Zenith could only be had in Manila in the most luxurious shopping mall of all. Rolex vendors were everywhere, sometimes more than one per mall. Hardly surprising - they are an above average class mass producer so they have to get rid of 'em somehow......

Hartmut Richter


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## tannhjulet

I have not noticed any people in the watch community, who doesnt approve of Zenith. Quite the contrary.

I have seen Zenith on sales, but not Rolex. or PP, or ALS. The likes of Omage you can find on sale also. So I figure its in that range, with the Omega brand.


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## TgeekB

Green Bay Packers Quarterback Aaron Rodgers Named Brand Ambassador For Zenith Watches


Following the action-packed NFC game yesterday, Green Bay Packers' quarterback Aaron Rodgers throws another winner: he joins Zenith watches as brand ambassador.




www.forbes.com





Well, he is my favorite QB!

Sent from my wrist using Tapatalk


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## dwboston

TgeekB said:


> Green Bay Packers Quarterback Aaron Rodgers Named Brand Ambassador For Zenith Watches
> 
> 
> Following the action-packed NFC game yesterday, Green Bay Packers' quarterback Aaron Rodgers throws another winner: he joins Zenith watches as brand ambassador.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he is my favorite QB!
> 
> Sent from my wrist using Tapatalk


I was just about to post that I saw that when checking out the Chronomaster Sport. I love the watch but the Rodgers connection is almost enough to change my mind.


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## MichaelMaggi

Rolex makes 1 million watches a year. So does Omega. But demand for Rolex is just insane. Doesn't mean Omega or Zenith are inferior. They all make great in-house movements.

But when it comes to chronographs, it's hard to beat a column wheel movement at 36,000 bph. That's my humble opinion.


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## carlhaluss

I am very fortunate indeed to have an excellent AD here in Vancouver, one who is very loyal to the brand. I tend to agree with so many points made in this thread. However, I tend to be one who goes his own way, and refuse to be swayed by all the hype about so many brands. Certainly, I will listen to the hype, but I have to analyze each brand and model by itself before I make a decision. Zenith is one brand, the uniqueness of its models and craftsmanship blow me away. I find that their products are indeed fair value. I also find the Rolex products are fair value. When I discovered the new A385 revival, however, I took myself off a waiting list which I was on for the Rolex GMT Master II Root Beer. That is how much I value the Zenith brand! Although, I do wish they would profile themselves higher on social media and advertising in general. I always think it a shame that they seem to miss the boat. In the end, I suppose I would consider it a tad selfish to say that Zenith does get a ton of respect from me and that is really all that concerns me. It is just great to have them around!


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## Stu47

The Zenith website gave me headache. Watch after watch watch...different version of same design. The majority of which are not that attractive. Other than their new chrono (and I am not a chrono guy) they really don't have anything that appealed to me. Keep scrolling down and more watches..they keep loading. At least Rolex knows the value of keeping things simple and that you can have too much of a good thing.


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## One-Seventy

MichaelMaggi said:


> But when it comes to chronographs, it's hard to beat a column wheel movement at 36,000 bph. That's my humble opinion.


You certainly can if market values are sustained through minimal price erosion and wise investing. Nothing to do with the actual watch _per se_.


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## 427shark

No denying that zenith makes fantastic movements and are top notch quality. Imo zenith is known as just that though, a fantastic movement company, they really don't have any legendary / endoring iconic models . Resale pricing is supply / demand driven


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## 427shark

Also I don't think it helps that it seems like historically the new models are designed after the most popular models from other watch companies


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## WTSP

427shark said:


> No denying that zenith makes fantastic movements and are top notch quality. Imo zenith is known as just that though, a fantastic movement company, they really don't have any legendary / endoring iconic models . Resale pricing is supply / demand driven


Other than the A386, which is basically a sleeper hit. In my opinion you've got your Speedmasters and Daytonas as top of mind, Luminors, Monacos, Reversos, Tanks and Royal Oaks running second, then the A386, Portugueses, Big Bangs, Zeitworks, ww.tc, St Mortiz, and others running third line. People who criticize Zenith for not having enough famous models are often stuck at the Omega/Rolex level of recognition, which is unfair IMO. Do you see anybody criticizing Ulysse Nardin for not having enough iconic models?

If Universal Geneve has a classic with the Polerouter, then the A386, A385, Rainbows, Delucas and other Zenith models are mega-hits.


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## One-Seventy

427shark said:


> Also I don't think it helps that it seems like *historically the new models are designed after the most popular models *from other watch companies


Which ones are they?


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## WTSP

One-Seventy said:


> Which ones are they?


Obviously the Rolex Daytona. Aside from having an open caseback, multicoloured panda subdials, a date, high beat movement, a one tenth of a second time measurement scale on the central seconds, a sixty rather than thirty minute chronograph subdial, square black hour markers rather than rounded white ones, non screw-down pushers and crown, and no tachymetre, the new Chronomaster is exactly the same as the Daytona. I mean look at the black bezel and silver/black/lumed hands.

That passing similarity is what matters. The consensus is clear!


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## WTSP

Just to ensure that nobody thinks I blindly cheerlead for Zenith, I'd like to call them out for supplying a Chronomaster Sport to Monochrome watches with a clear dial defect at four o'clock. Get your QC together Zenith!










Zenith Chronomaster Sport 2021 - Review, Video, Price


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## Hartmut Richter

WTSP said:


> Obviously the Rolex Daytona. Aside from having an open caseback, multicoloured panda subdials, a date, high beat movement, a one tenth of a second time measurement scale on the central seconds, a sixty rather than thirty minute chronograph subdial, square black hour markers rather than rounded white ones, non screw-down pushers and crown, and no tachymetre, the new Chronomaster is exactly the same as the Daytona. I mean look at the black bezel and silver/black/lumed hands.
> 
> That passing similarity is what matters. The consensus is clear!


"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a freshwater system and public health - what have the Romans ever done for us?!"

"Brought peace?"

"Oh, shut up!"

Hartmut Richter


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## One-Seventy

WTSP said:


> Obviously the Rolex Daytona. Aside from having an open caseback, multicoloured panda subdials, a date, high beat movement, a one tenth of a second time measurement scale on the central seconds, a sixty rather than thirty minute chronograph subdial, square black hour markers rather than rounded white ones, non screw-down pushers and crown, and no tachymetre, the new Chronomaster is exactly the same as the Daytona. I mean look at the black bezel and silver/black/lumed hands.


LOL!


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## rand777

Zenith is the only brand in my collection that is purely about the movement (El Primero). While I wish they had a long lived watch design that they've evolved and refined over time like the Speedmaster or Submariner, some of their models I have found to be quite special, and the recent El Primero update has me excited about the brand's new watches again. 

As far as their name, the similarity to Zenith TV (which actually owned a majority stake in Zenith during the 70s) is the only negative association I have with the brand.


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## franco60

I've owned my 1969 for a several years, purchased the A384 Revival panda, then had a friend selling his newly acquired Liberty, so within two weeks both revival models were added. I was fortunate to get both Revival models with ladder bracelets, easily on par with Rolex jubilee in terms of comfort. I never intended to be a Zenith collector, but here I am. Love all three and don't anticipate a flip in the near future. The 37mm angular cases are perfect for my 7" wrist. Oddly, I don't feel compelled to go after the chronomaster sport, possibly because I have a Daytona, but just not my thing I guess.

I have 30 or so watches including seven Rolexes and Zenith is extremely high quality, but I won't get into the better than/not better than Rolex discussion.

So now, the pics.

































Sent from my SM-A716V using Tapatalk


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## sempervivens

Congrats! And thanks for the pictures.



franco60 said:


> I've owned my 1969 for a several years, purchased the A384 Revival panda, then had a friend selling his newly acquired Liberty, so within two weeks both revival models were added. I was fortunate to get both Revival models with ladder bracelets, easily on par with Rolex jubilee in terms of comfort. I never intended to be a Zenith collector, but here I am. Love all three and don't anticipate a flip in the near future. The 37mm angular cases are perfect for my 7" wrist. Oddly, I don't feel compelled to go after the chronomaster sport, possibly because I have a Daytona, but just not my thing I guess.
> 
> I have 30 or so watches including seven Rolexes and Zenith is extremely high quality, but I won't get into the better than/not better than Rolex discussion.
> 
> So now, the pics.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A716V using Tapatalk


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## Sc0ttg

franco60 said:


> I've owned my 1969 for a several years, purchased the A384 Revival panda, then had a friend selling his newly acquired Liberty, so within two weeks both revival models were added. I was fortunate to get both Revival models with ladder bracelets, easily on par with Rolex jubilee in terms of comfort. I never intended to be a Zenith collector, but here I am. Love all three and don't anticipate a flip in the near future. The 37mm angular cases are perfect for my 7" wrist. Oddly, I don't feel compelled to go after the chronomaster sport, possibly because I have a Daytona, but just not my thing I guess.
> 
> I have 30 or so watches including seven Rolexes and Zenith is extremely high quality, but I won't get into the better than/not better than Rolex discussion.
> 
> So now, the pics.
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> Sent from my SM-A716V using Tapatalk


As one who looks to be very familiar with Zenith, do you have any opinions on the movements in your Zeniths vs the movement in their new Chronomaster Sport?

I'm new to the brand and trying to decide what to pick up this year.


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## Hartmut Richter

There have been minor tweaks to the El Primero Cal. 400 over the years and the Cal. 3600 is a moderate to major tweak. Nevertheless, the movement is still an El Primero (which is rather more than can be said of the Cal. 21): same dimensions, same overall structure, etc. It has a few more parts (311) than the old Cal. 3019 PHC (ca. 285) but less than the revamped Cal. 400 (326 parts it is claimed - don't know where they all suddenly sprung from) and is said to have improved the power transmission between main movement and chronograph. But on the whole, it is the same (with a Striking Tenth feature).

Hartmut Richter


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## Reverend123!

Personally I love the brand and just bought a new 
* Zenith Pilot Cronometro Tipo CP-2 Flyback Chronograph EL PRIMERO.I have owned many Rolex and sold them all in favor of a watch that isn't driven by a huge marketing machine. No offence to those who love Rolex.*


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