# Odysseus waitlist



## Yugi

Owning a Lange watch is my dream and trying to own one for a long time. After much debate with myself I decided new Odysseus stainless watch is the one. I contacted multiple boutiques, AD's hoping to purchase the watch but surprised to know the huge demand and wait-lists. I always thought acquiring Lange watch is not hard but is it slowing becoming like a Rolex/Patek? 

Some boutiques offered me to add my name to the 2 year wait list on the condition I will buy a watch now which is priced higher than Odysseus. Should I spend 30k$ now to get myself into waiting list? Do you guys think demand will fade away slowly?


----------



## yellowfury

Yugi said:


> Owning a Lange watch is my dream and trying to own one for a long time. After much debate with myself I decided new Odysseus stainless watch is the one. I contacted multiple boutiques, AD's hoping to purchase the watch but surprised to know the huge demand and wait-lists. I always thought acquiring Lange watch is not hard but is it slowing becoming like a Rolex/Patek?
> 
> Some boutiques offered me to add my name to the 2 year wait list on the condition I will buy a watch now which is priced higher than Odysseus. Should I spend 30k$ now to get myself into waiting list? Do you guys think demand will fade away slowly?


It's hard to get because it's lange's steel sports watch and is the only one they make. There are other watches out there you can buy. I don't recommend dropping money on a watch you don't want in the hopes that it'll lead you to the one you do want years down the line.


----------



## mlcor

The problem is more of supply than demand--they're only going to make a few hundred each year, so there will continue (IMO) to be more demand than supply for quite some time.

It sounds crappy to "make" someone buy a watch in order to buy a watch, but ADs were only allowed to offer the Odysseus to customers that had already bought several Langes, and each prospective customer had to then be approved by the mother ship in Germany. Again, I think this is more about small quantities than marketing on Lange's part. It's not hard to buy any other model Lange, just this one...

Bottom line, I don't think the wait list will change in length any time soon, so you'll need to decide how much it's worth to you. Have you seen the Odysseus in the flesh? If I were you I'd want to do that before deciding.


----------



## kobub

Yugi said:


> Owning a Lange watch is my dream and trying to own one for a long time. After much debate with myself I decided new Odysseus stainless watch is the one. I contacted multiple boutiques, AD's hoping to purchase the watch but surprised to know the huge demand and wait-lists. I always thought acquiring Lange watch is not hard but is it slowing becoming like a Rolex/Patek?
> 
> Some boutiques offered me to add my name to the 2 year wait list on the condition I will buy a watch now which is priced higher than Odysseus. Should I spend 30k$ now to get myself into waiting list? Do you guys think demand will fade away slowly?


The Odysseus specifically has a long wait list out of Lange's current offerings and new allocations might be boutique only for now. Depending on the demand, they might be staying that way for a bit. I've heard the white gold variant has a shorter turnaround time, but I don't think people who want the stainless steel 363.179 are interested in paying more for the precious metal version.

You seem to have enough financial reserves if you are considering buying a $30k+ "stepping stone" Lange in order to get on a wait list for another ~$30k Odysseus, so in terms of the financial sense of it, that is up to your discretion. I'm hoping you handled the Odysseus in person before committing to these purchases and also seriously considered the "stepping stone" Lange you'd want to purchase, since you're talking about close to Saxonia moon phase prices at the boutique.

Regardless, best of luck acquiring an Odysseus.


----------



## Pongster

Only because it’s steel (like what the 5711 steel nautilus was for patek). The “regular” PM lange watches are easily accessible.


----------



## Yugi

So I bought 1815 up/down and was able to get into one year wait list.


----------



## mario1971

Yugi said:


> So I bought 1815 up/down and was able to get into one year wait list.


And you know that without a photo it doesn't count?

We are waiting ...🧐


----------



## Yugi

mario1971 said:


> And you know that without a photo it doesn't count?
> 
> We are waiting ...🧐


Fair  I will upload once I receive the watch(hopefully next weekl)


----------



## mlcor

Congrats, the Up Down is a classic (I have one in WG). I hope you're still going to be able to see and try on the Odysseus in person before deciding to purchase it down the road. There are demos making the rounds of boutiques and ADs, I would suggest asking yours when they will have one, if you haven't already.


----------



## Dunnej

I don't think demand will subside anytime soon. This watch will ALWAYS be rare (compared to other steel sports models) – Lange only make 5,000 watches a year, period. Divide that 5,000 across 6 watch families with between 3 and 15 SKUs per family. The Odysseus will always be hard to get. One just sold at auction for over $80k...


----------



## Yugi

It arrived today


----------



## mlcor

It's a lovely piece--I'll admit I'm biased since I have the same one.


----------



## Bren86

Nice watch, had the same piece for a few years and it is very versatile!


----------



## Yugi

From the botique


----------



## Sleepysmith7

Yep love this! Great work!


----------



## wintershade

Yugi said:


> So I bought 1815 up/down and was able to get into one year wait list.


Congrats on the U/D. Unfortunately I doubt you'll see that Odysseus within a years time as promised. There are people ahead of you who have likely spent 10x or more on Langes who have been waiting longer than a year for their Odysseus. A friend of mine did the exact same thing about 9 months ago (purchased a WG U/D at NY Botique on the promise of an Odysseus). Well, he called me a couple weeks ago venting that Lange is giving him the run around about how limited supply has been due to pandemic, how "headquarters" is prioritizing people based on a number of factors, it's out of their control, bla bla bla.

Please do circle back and let us know if/when you ever get one. But in the meantime at least you got a great watch.


----------



## Yugi

wintershade said:


> Congrats on the U/D. Unfortunately I doubt you'll see that Odysseus within a years time as promised. There are people ahead of you who have likely spent 10x or more on Langes who have been waiting longer than a year for their Odysseus. A friend of mine did the exact same thing about 9 months ago (purchased a WG U/D at NY Botique on the promise of an Odysseus). Well, he called me a couple weeks ago venting that Lange is giving him the run around about how limited supply has been due to pandemic, how "headquarters" is prioritizing people based on a number of factors, it's out of their control, bla bla bla.
> 
> Please do circle back and let us know if/when you ever get one. But in the meantime at least you got a great watch.


Yeah I agree. Unfortunately this can happen and I am prepared for it. While I wait for Odysseus, I am enjoying this beautiful timepiece.


----------



## oldskoolbiker

So for kicks I called the ALS Boutique and inquired about a White Gold Odysseus. Unexpectedly, I was offered the watch at the outgoing MSRP. The price will raise 7% on 3/15. They said I would get the watch in 2 months but they want full payment up front to get the outgoing price.

I know watches aren't investments, but if I'm going to drop this much on a watch, I need to know it's going to be a good investment. and course the wife is blocking the idea. Any advice or thoughts?


----------



## Dunnej

wintershade said:


> Congrats on the U/D. Unfortunately I doubt you'll see that Odysseus within a years time as promised. There are people ahead of you who have likely spent 10x or more on Langes who have been waiting longer than a year for their Odysseus. A friend of mine did the exact same thing about 9 months ago (purchased a WG U/D at NY Botique on the promise of an Odysseus). Well, he called me a couple weeks ago venting that Lange is giving him the run around about how limited supply has been due to pandemic, how "headquarters" is prioritizing people based on a number of factors, it's out of their control, bla bla bla.
> 
> Please do circle back and let us know if/when you ever get one. But in the meantime at least you got a great watch.


To be fair to Lange, the pandemic was an enormous setback for the Odysseus. The steel bracelet is made in Italy and those first months threw everything into total chaos. Rewarding their best customers for their loyalty and sticking around through such uncertain conditions is warranted here.

Plus, they definitely don't want these showing up at auction again. Putting them in the hands of the best customers is a great way to avoid this for the time being.


----------



## Yugi

oldskoolbiker said:


> So for kicks I called the ALS Boutique and inquired about a White Gold Odysseus. Unexpectedly, I was offered the watch at the outgoing MSRP. The price will raise 7% on 3/15. They said I would get the watch in 2 months but they want full payment up front to get the outgoing price.
> 
> I know watches aren't investments, but if I'm going to drop this much on a watch, I need to know it's going to be a good investment. and course the wife is blocking the idea. Any advice or thoughts?


Any watch that's easily available will drop in value after the purchase but considering the Lange price increase and Lange restrictions on new watches valued over 50k I would assume it will retain value. That being said stainless steel one will be a better investment watch compared to WG. If you like the watch and not looking to sell immediately then go for it. Enjoy the timepiece, I really liked the Odysseus unique design and look.


----------



## CFR

oldskoolbiker said:


> I know watches aren't investments, but if I'm going to drop this much on a watch, I need to know it's going to be a good investment. and course the wife is blocking the idea. Any advice or thoughts?


If "good investment" means a near-guarantee that you'd be able to sell it for more than the purchase price in the next few years, then don't buy it. It's a risk with the WG Odysseus.


----------



## DatoG

CFR said:


> If "good investment" means a near-guarantee that you'd be able to sell it for more than the purchase price in the next few years, then don't buy it. It's a risk with the WG Odysseus.


Yes... I think this response is accurate 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rolexplorer

Worse than trying to obtain a Rolex.
No thanks. I have other things to do.


----------



## Konbini_Time

Yugi said:


> So I bought 1815 up/down and was able to get into one year wait list.


Approaching the 1 year mark...has the boutique kept in touch much about your odysseus status?


----------



## caprichin

I got the same reply, to buy a watch you don't want to get into a 2 year waiting list to spend 25k$ in a SS watch. The world is crazy, hahaha.

I will understand priority for client and a waitlist. But that the boutique tells you to buy a watch or 2 to get priority in the list seems inelegant in my opinion.

By the way, aparently not all the ALS watches get you to the list now. They sent me a list of the ones that do and the price tags are high!


----------



## acebruin

They are prioritizing existing clients though... But they do have that limit on how much you need to spend to get on the list. As far as I understand, there's no priority on how much you spend. Someone who buys 10 watches have the same priority as someone who buys 1 watch. First in, first out. Unfortunately that's the name of the game in any luxury brand. Good thing about ALS is it doesn't matter how much you spend as long as you meet the minimum criteria in the beginning.


----------



## GrouchoM

acebruin said:


> They are prioritizing existing clients though... But they do have that limit on how much you need to spend to get on the list. As far as I understand, there's no priority on how much you spend. Someone who buys 10 watches have the same priority as someone who buys 1 watch. First in, first out. Unfortunately that's the name of the game in any luxury brand. Good thing about ALS is it doesn't matter how much you spend as long as you meet the minimum criteria in the beginning.


Can you just buy a strap? 

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## acebruin

Hahaha that'll be funny to record, to see the reaction on the sales rep's face...


----------



## poitch

It is unfortunate, but the situation will not improve any time soon for the SS Odysseus. It is a supply/demand issue, and ALS isn't going to make more SS per year than they already are. So the current 2-year duration will probably remain the same maybe even grow over time. 

I did hear that they were only at 75% capacity a few weeks back due to COVID quarantines among employees.

ALS only has the SS Odysseus available to boutique, don't even bother going to an AD as they don't make them available to ADs yet (who knows if they will ever make them available to them. Schmidt has said that he never intended the SS to be a Boutique exclusive and is sticking to that statement). So any number of years you hear from an AD is purely speculative. 

And as pointed out in an earlier post, one is now required to acquire specific models even to be considered added to the pool. 

ALS only wants the SS Odysseus to end up in "true" collectors' hands and go after people who are reselling them, which is why they are using prior purchases as a weak indicator of that.


----------



## Jonathan T

I love the up/down. good choice and congrats!


----------



## J Crew

A very beautiful piece to pickup while waiting on an Odysseus!


----------



## Yugi

I am finally getting my Odysseus tomorrow. It’s been 15 months. I was told wait times now is 3 years for this piece. I am happy I got this news on my birthday:


----------



## duck2h

Yugi said:


> It arrived today
> View attachment 15742255
> View attachment 15742257


 Congratulations. I am looking for the same watch in RG and the AD advised that this model comes in a smaller rectangular box. How did you get your presentation box?


----------



## hotlesbianassassin

Thanks for sharing your journey. It's really informative and helpful seeing posts like these. You were extremely fortunate to start looking to get the Odysseus when you did. Since then, boutiques are now only handing out WG Odysseus allocations when purchasing a ~40K USD watch, and steel Odysseuses are reserved for customers with extensive purchase history. The demand for most Langes has shot up across the board but particularly for Odysseuses. I was lucky enough to get an allocation for a steel Odysseus before this recent change, but the wait time now is 2 to 3 years.

Anyway, huge congrats!


----------



## Yugi

Here it is guys, looks so good in person. I am yet to wear it, waiting for a special occasion to start the journey.


----------



## ndrs63

Yugi said:


> View attachment 16733930
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is guys, looks so good in person. I am yet to wear it, waiting for a special occasion to start the journey.


Wow, I would not be able to wait a minute to put it on. Don’t know how you do it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## weisscomposer

We should start a poll to decide which is more of a tease: "I'm getting an Odysseus in 16 months" or "Here's my Odysseus wrapped in plastic which I'm not gonna wear yet" LOL

We need pics! Wrist shots! Don't let us down!


----------



## CFR

Yugi said:


> Here it is guys, looks so good in person. I am yet to wear it, waiting for a special occasion to start the journey.


Now you have to try to get the watch out without breaking that quality control seal. Let the games begin!


----------



## GrouchoM

Yugi said:


> View attachment 16733930
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is guys, looks so good in person. I am yet to wear it, waiting for a special occasion to start the journey.


Isn't getting that watch reason enough to celebrate by wearing it? Life's shorter than you think.....

Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect


----------



## ArcticCoastie

GrouchoM said:


> Isn't getting that watch reason enough to celebrate by wearing it? Life's shorter than you think.....
> 
> Typos courtesy of Samsung Auto-Incorrect


Exactly! Put that baby on!!!!


----------



## whoopdido1980

hotlesbianassassin said:


> Thanks for sharing your journey. It's really informative and helpful seeing posts like these. You were extremely fortunate to start looking to get the Odysseus when you did. Since then, boutiques are now only handing out WG Odysseus allocations when purchasing a ~40K USD watch, and steel Odysseuses are reserved for customers with extensive purchase history. The demand for most Langes has shot up across the board but particularly for Odysseuses. I was lucky enough to get an allocation for a steel Odysseus before this recent change, but the wait time now is 2 to 3 years.
> 
> Anyway, huge congrats!


I know I’m responding to an old post, but do you have any idea what “extensive purchase history“ might actually mean? Originally I was reading this thread and, unless i misunderstood, as long as you bought ANY watch you could get on the list for a SS one. Well, maybe not any watch, I guess ALS required you to buy at least one of a list of watches to get on the waiting list for a SS Odysseus. Now it seems like you have to be a “big wig” so to speak and have already purchased multiple watches from that boutique to get on the list…definitely more than just one. So like I originally asked, how many watches does it take to become a customer with extensive purchase history?

Also, can you get on the waiting list for a white gold one if you buy just ONE watch that’s over 40K?


----------



## hotlesbianassassin

whoopdido1980 said:


> I know I’m responding to an old post, but do you have any idea what “extensive purchase history“ might actually mean? Originally I was reading this thread and, unless i misunderstood, as long as you bought ANY watch you could get on the list for a SS one. Well, maybe not any watch, I guess ALS required you to buy at least one of a list of watches to get on the waiting list for a SS Odysseus. Now it seems like you have to be a “big wig” so to speak and have already purchased multiple watches from that boutique to get on the list…definitely more than just one. So like I originally asked, how many watches does it take to become a customer with extensive purchase history?
> 
> Also, can you get on the waiting list for a white gold one if you buy just ONE watch that’s over 40K?


So the requirement to get an SS Odysseus has gone up over time. In the very beginning, some folks who purchased only a Saxonia Thin were able to get on the waitlist, and I've heard of people who purchased an 1815 Up/Down getting on the waitlist. Around the time that I got on the waitlist, the minimum requirement was a 40K watch. Now someone said it is a 92K watch, but my boutique guy told me that someone who was willing to buy a Tourbillon to be placed on the waitlist was denied an allocation, because they felt he was only looking to flip both watches, so I'm not entirely sure what the exact minimum requirement is. I would suggest that, if you are really interested in getting an SS Odysseus, you visit a boutique and talk in earnest to someone there about your interest and present yourself as a true watch enthusiast and ask them what the requirement for an allocation is. I don't think anyone's getting on that waitlist if the boutique doesn't take a liking to you (as in, if they suspect you might flip the watch for profit), so you might as well visit the boutique and find out firsthand what the requirement is.

As for the white gold Odysseus, that's what my boutique guy told me: a 40K watch purchase will qualify you for a WG Odysseus.


----------



## whoopdido1980

hotlesbianassassin said:


> So the requirement to get an SS Odysseus has gone up over time. In the very beginning, some folks who purchased only a Saxonia Thin were able to get on the waitlist, and I've heard of people who purchased an 1815 Up/Down getting on the waitlist. Around the time that I got on the waitlist, the minimum requirement was a 40K watch. Now someone said it is a 92K watch, but my boutique guy told me that someone who was willing to buy a Tourbillon to be placed on the waitlist was denied an allocation, because they felt he was only looking to flip both watches, so I'm not entirely sure what the exact minimum requirement is. I would suggest that, if you are really interested in getting an SS Odysseus, you visit a boutique and talk in earnest to someone there about your interest and present yourself as a true watch enthusiast and ask them what the requirement for an allocation is. I don't think anyone's getting on that waitlist if the boutique doesn't take a liking to you (as in, if they suspect you might flip the watch for profit), so you might as well visit the boutique and find out firsthand what the requirement is.
> 
> As for the white gold Odysseus, that's what my boutique guy told me: a 40K watch purchase will qualify you for a WG Odysseus.


It‘s like they almost created a monster. ALS has always been a pretty small, niche company and I think they pride themselves on not producing many watches and not really having many out there and honestly most people (besides watch enthusiasts) even knowing who they are. Now, the demand for the Odysseus just seems to be through the roof and it seems to be going against their normal business model. Plus, I totally understand why they don’t like the idea of “flipping”. I mean I guess on one hand, who cares who has the watch? ALS got their money. But on the other hand, ALS wants to stay unique and and only produce watches for those who truly appreciate them and actually wear them and not for people who are just trying to make money off them by flipping them.


----------



## Kuttermax

whoopdido1980 said:


> It‘s like they almost created a monster. ALS has always been a pretty small, niche company and I think they pride themselves on not producing many watches and not really having many out there and honestly most people (besides watch enthusiasts) even knowing who they are. Now, the demand for the Odysseus just seems to be through the roof and it seems to be going against their normal business model. Plus, I totally understand why they don’t like the idea of “flipping”. I mean I guess on one hand, who cares who has the watch? ALS got their money. But on the other hand, ALS wants to stay unique and and only produce watches for those who truly appreciate them and actually wear them and not for people who are just trying to make money off them by flipping them.


Watching some of the older videos closer to the launch of the Odysseus, I believe Wilhelm Schmid is quite sincere in wanting to try and get these into the hands of loyal A. Lange und Sohne customers. The pandemic coupled with the skyrocketing demand for steel sport watches made this a difficult task. The rigid "rules" in terms of who and how you get on the list has worked for some but also been puzzling and frustrating for others. A good example is the 1815 Chronograph, where a WG Black Dial gets you on the list but a Boutique Edition doesn't. That's really splitting hairs and risks having buyers not purchase the watch they are more passionate about for fear of not acquiring "equity" with the brand.

Ultimately, with the shift to almost a Boutique only model, it would be nice to see Lange grant some the decision making on the models to the Boutiques. Right now it seems Lange doesn't trust the Boutiques to make these decisions, hence such a tight and rigid rule structure. It will be interesting to see how this evolves over the next 2 - 3 years as the "reset" after the pandemic occurs.


----------



## CFR

Kuttermax said:


> Ultimately, with the shift to almost a Boutique only model, it would be nice to see Lange grant some the decision making on the models to the Boutiques. Right now it seems Lange doesn't trust the Boutiques to make these decisions, hence such a tight and rigid rule structure. It will be interesting to see how this evolves over the next 2 - 3 years as the "reset" after the pandemic occurs.


That's an interesting idea, giving the boutiques more autonomy. My initial reaction is that I wouldn't want to see that because it'd promote Rolex-like "forum shopping" and would exacerbate inequity, complaints, etc. But I haven't really thought it through. Do you think boutiques should be allowed to discount, too? A few years ago, I remember being shocked to learn that some Lange boutiques were actually doing that (but no more). That was back when boutiques were competing with ADs for business.



whoopdido1980 said:


> It‘s like they almost created a monster.


Yup, predictable from the moment they decided to go into the steel "sports watch" business. It was inevitable, but still, I wish they had either (a) stuck with precious metals or (b) offered the steel Odysseuse Datomatic as a "reward" only to those longer-term collectors who've owned X number of Langes for Y number of years (with a clear message that if their Datomatic is up for sale anytime in the next Z years then they're not getting offered another limited edition Lange, period).

The other big problem with the steel Odysseus Datomatic is that the criteria has changed over time. The goalposts keep moving. Initially ADs were supposed to have them shortly after the boutiques got them. Then ADs weren't going to get them. And then ADs were being closed altogether. The confluence of all these factors hasn't been pretty. Hopefully we'll be in for a smoother ride going forward!


----------



## whoopdido1980

CFR said:


> That's an interesting idea, giving the boutiques more autonomy. My initial reaction is that I wouldn't want to see that because it'd promote Rolex-like "forum shopping" and would exacerbate inequity, complaints, etc. Do you think boutiques should be allowed to discount, too? A few years ago, I remember being shocked to learn that some Lange boutiques were actually doing that (but no more).
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, predictable from the moment they decided to go into the steel "sports watch" business. It was inevitable, but still, I wish they had either (a) stuck with precious metals or (b) offered the steel Odysseuse Datomatic as a "reward" only to those longer-term collectors who've owned X number of Langes for Y number of years (with a clear message that if their Datomatic is up for sale anytime in the next Z years then they're not getting offered another limited edition Lange, period).
> 
> The other big problem with the steel Odysseus Datomatic is that the criteria has changed over time. The goalposts keep moving. Initially ADs were supposed to have them shortly after the boutiques got them. Then ADs weren't going to get them. And then ADs were being closed altogether. The confluence of all these factors hasn't been pretty. Hopefully we'll be in for a smoother ride going forward!


Well they have certain “boutique exclusives” right? And some that only like 100-200 pieces were made? Those seem like they should be basically set aside for true Lange enthusiasts in my opinion. I mean I own 1 Lange and I didn’t even buy it from a boutique (I would have but the model I wanted is discontinued). Personally I see no reason why people who have already bought 10,20,30 watches or whatever or spent a specific dollar amount amount already should get first crack at these new special models that get released. We’re probably not talking about a whole lot of of people that fall into that category actually.


----------



## Kuttermax

CFR said:


> That's an interesting idea, giving the boutiques more autonomy. My initial reaction is that I wouldn't want to see that because it'd promote Rolex-like "forum shopping" and would exacerbate inequity, complaints, etc. Do you think boutiques should be allowed to discount, too?


My thought here is that the Boutique would know their customers and hopefully be motivated to try and get the pieces into the hands of those that they know are collectors and not "flippers". Perhaps the Boutique still has to make a case for the client to Lange headquarters, but Lange could give the Boutique a little leeway in deciding where the pieces go. However, Lange could also in part hold the Boutiques accountable if pieces they were allocated end up showing up on the grey market/auction sites etc. There are enough Boutiques now that I think there is going to be some competition amongst them as well, especially those that are owned in partnership with jewellery stores (ie. Meridian in Aspen, Burdeen's in Chicago, Bellusso in Las Vegas). 

Discounting is a tricky subject. One can certainly argue that Lange's mission to eliminate discounting has had an immediate impactful effect. The knock on Lange had been for a long time that most of the models immediately dropped significantly below retail pricing on the secondary market. Dealers often discounted to bring the price of a new watch closer to what the secondary market was charging. I saw this first hand at an AD that had both New and Trade-In versions of the same model and the delta was a few thousand dollars at the time. At that time supply was much greater and the landscape has also changed secondary to the pandemic and we all know the profound impact this has had on the industry as a whole. If demand remains high across the board, then I don't see discounting being offered, but if demand were to significantly fall off, then it will be interesting to see where things go especially if some inventory becomes difficult to move. I think this is where changes to how Lange allocates models will also have an impact.


----------



## CFR

whoopdido1980 said:


> Well they have certain “boutique exclusives” right? And some that only like 100-200 pieces were made? Those seem like they should be basically set aside for true Lange enthusiasts in my opinion. I mean I own 1 Lange and I didn’t even buy it from a boutique (I would have but the model I wanted is discontinued). Personally I see no reason why people who have already bought 10,20,30 watches or whatever or spent a specific dollar amount amount already should get first crack at these new special models that get released. We’re probably not talking about a whole lot of of people that fall into that category actually.


You're totally correct, but from my perspective, the longtime enthusiast/collector doesn't care whether the brand categorizes the watch they want as a "boutique exclusive," or as a numbered limited edition piece (like the recent honey gold Zeitwerk Lumen), or as an unnumbered "standard production" piece (like the steel Odysseus Datomatic). The enthusiast/collector just wants to be able to buy that watch and to do so in a reasonable time frame.

That was the problem with the steel Odysseus Datomatic: Longtime enthusiasts/collectors were told they were on the list to get them and were later told no, they can't get them (and they still can't get them without a recent substantial boutique purchase history). This drove quite a few longtime, loyal, vocal enthusiasts/collectors away from the brand in the last two years at the expense of other "short term" buyers.

To me, the number of people in that category doesn't matter. It could even be just one or two people. I still don't think it makes sense for the brand to prioritize short-term "bundling" customers over longer-term repeat customers when it comes to deciding who gets the more generally desirable pieces -- unless, for example, Richemont is going to sell Lange in the coming years and wants to try to pump up the numbers a bit.

Let's play out this strategy in the longer term. Let's say you agree to buy a "bundle" right now and you get your steel Odysseus Datomatic as a reward. Then, in four years, Lange releases a steel Odysseus Chronomatic (chronograph version). You want it, so you go back to the boutique and remind them of your bundling history with them. They say, "Yes, but we have hundreds of other boutique customers just like you, who bought multiple watches a few years ago, and we have to give priority to the more recent bundlers for the Chronomatic. And you haven't bought any of our other watches in the past 4 years. So due to the high demand for the Chronomatic, we can't allocate one to you unless you buy a few more watches right now." That doesn't seem like a viable long-term strategy that'll work in softer markets (but we'll see).

To be clear, I'm not one of those people who ever wanted a steel Odysseus or a honey gold ZW Lumen -- neither of those appealed to me -- so I don't have a personal axe to grind. It's just interesting to think about.


----------



## whoopdido1980

CFR said:


> You're totally correct, but from my perspective, the longtime enthusiast/collector doesn't care whether the brand categorizes the watch they want as a "boutique exclusive," or as a numbered limited edition piece (like the recent honey gold Zeitwerk Lumen), or as an unnumbered "standard production" piece (like the steel Odysseus Datomatic). The enthusiast/collector just wants to be able to buy that watch and to do so in a reasonable time frame.
> 
> That was the problem with the steel Odysseus Datomatic: Longtime enthusiasts/collectors were told they were on the list to get them and were later told no, they can't get them (and they still can't get them without a recent substantial boutique purchase history). This drove quite a few longtime, loyal, vocal enthusiasts/collectors away from the brand in the last two years at the expense of other "short term" buyers.
> 
> To me, the number of people in that category doesn't matter. It could even be just one or two people. I still don't think it makes sense for the brand to prioritize short-term "bundling" customers over longer-term repeat customers when it comes to deciding who gets the more generally desirable pieces -- unless, for example, Richemont is going to sell Lange in the coming years and wants to try to pump up the numbers a bit.
> 
> Let's play out this strategy in the longer term. Let's say you agree to buy a "bundle" right now and you get your steel Odysseus Datomatic as a reward. Then, in four years, Lange releases a steel Odysseus Chronomatic (chronograph version). You want it, so you go back to the boutique and remind them of your bundling history with them. They say, "Yes, but we have hundreds of other boutique customers just like you, who bought multiple watches a few years ago, and we have to give priority to the more recent bundlers for the Chronomatic. And you haven't bought any of our other watches in the past 4 years. So due to the high demand for the Chronomatic, we can't allocate one to you unless you buy a few more watches right now." That doesn't seem like a viable long-term strategy that'll work in softer markets (but we'll see).
> 
> To be clear, I'm not one of those people who ever wanted a steel Odysseus or a honey gold ZW Lumen -- neither of those appealed to me -- so I don't have a personal axe to grind. It's just interesting to think about.


First of all I reread my post and realized I made a mistake. I said I saw no reason why people who bought a bunch of watches already should get first crack at special models that get released. I meant to say I saw no reason why they SHOULDN’T get first crack.

I can’t believe I’m even saying this but I actually kind of want an SS Odysseus. However, like I said before I only own one Lange that’s pre-owned because it’s discontinued that I didn’t even buy from a boutique. I don’t deserve one at this point. I’m not even going to ask how many, but I can just tell that you, for example, own a bunch of Langes.

Like you said, even if I really, really wanted to why should I be able to quickly buy whatever their quota is and instantly jump ahead of you even though I’d still have way fewer watches than you? 

Finally, the whole thing is moot anyway. Although I believe Lange makes the best watches in the world, just looking at what they have to offer, I’m honestly not interested in the vast majority of them. I appreciate all of them, but honestly the only other Lange I would actually buy (besides an Odysseus) would be a Lange 1 Moon Phase. So why on Earth would Lange ever sell me an Odysseus when the only watch I ever bought from them is one Lange 1 Moon Phase?


----------



## immerschnell

Question for those of you interested in the Odysseus. Do you have a lot of other SS watches in the past or present? Do you like the Odysseus because it is Lange or because of the specific design? How do you feel about it compared to other ones you may have bought and why would you like it differently?


----------



## whoopdido1980

immerschnell said:


> Question for those of you interested in the Odysseus. Do you have a lot of other SS watches in the past or present? Do you like the Odysseus because it is Lange or because of the specific design? How do you feel about it compared to other ones you may have bought and why would you like it differently?


For me personally I don’t have any other SS watches any they’ve never even been on my radar before. But I really do like the design of the Odysseus and figured...hey why not take a look at SS? Being a Lange certainly helps, but it‘s not necessarily the only reason.

So if anybody knows of another SS watch that looks similar to the Odysseus I‘m all ears.


----------



## mlcor

immerschnell said:


> Question for those of you interested in the Odysseus. Do you have a lot of other SS watches in the past or present? Do you like the Odysseus because it is Lange or because of the specific design? How do you feel about it compared to other ones you may have bought and why would you like it differently?


I can give you another perspective, as someone who's bought three Langes over the years (only have one left, the Saxonia Annual Calendar) and was offered an Odysseus early on. I got to try on the demo that was circulating at the time, and while I liked it, I didn't like it enough to get on the waiting list for one. I liked the dial design and the day date complication implementation, quite different from run of the mill, and of course the finishing was up to usual high Lange standards. But I didn't care for the bracelet or the faux integrated look they went for with it. Bottom line, I didn't see it getting wrist time in lieu of my blue dial Overseas, so I passed. But YMMV.


----------



## whoopdido1980

mlcor said:


> I can give you another perspective, as someone who's bought three Langes over the years (only have one left, the Saxonia Annual Calendar) and was offered an Odysseus early on. I got to try on the demo that was circulating at the time, and while I liked it, I didn't like it enough to get on the waiting list for one. I liked the dial design and the day date complication implementation, quite different from run of the mill, and of course the finishing was up to usual high Lange standards. But I didn't care for the bracelet or the faux integrated look they went for with it. Bottom line, I didn't see it getting wrist time in lieu of my blue dial Overseas, so I passed. But YMMV.


So I’m just curious did you buy the original Annual Calendar that was released in I believe believe 2010, or the 1815 version? The original version is discontinued. Frankly I don’t like the 1815 version, but I’ve always loved the original version. I always had the money, so I should have just bought one at some point in the past, but I never pulled the trigger. I finally decided to buy one this year, but obviously had to to go the pre-owned route. Thanks to CFR, I found a shop that that had one in excellent condition, that had just been overhauled by Lange and and also included almost a full 2 year warranty.

Also I‘m also curious why you were offered an Odysseus? I know how much the Annual Calendar costs, but what else did you buy, if you don’t mind me asking? From what I what understand, Lange has continued to change their policy regarding the Odysseus. Unless I’m mistaken, at the beginning you just had to buy ANY watch, so it could could be their cheapest watch and then you could get on the Odysseus list, then they changed it to a 40K watch before you could get on the list and now, unless I’m mistaken only something like “long time customers“ will be eligible to buy a SS watch.


----------



## hotlesbianassassin

immerschnell said:


> Question for those of you interested in the Odysseus. Do you have a lot of other SS watches in the past or present? Do you like the Odysseus because it is Lange or because of the specific design? How do you feel about it compared to other ones you may have bought and why would you like it differently?


My main collection currently consists of 4 watches with leather straps (what would be deemed dress watches, though I usually wear them with shorts and t-shirts) and 1 dive watch on a rubber strap. The reason I'm looking to get the Odysseus is because I feel like I should have at least 1 integrated bracelet sports watch.

When the Odysseus was announced, I generally liked the case design, the blue dial, that it had a day date complication (not a huge calendar guy and generally feel like calendar function beyond day and date is useless) with a useful pusher system to boot, and of course that it's a Lange, but I wasn't sure about the look of the pushers (felt that they made the watch look somewhat unbalanced and that traditional pushers would have looked better) and the bracelet. But seeing the WG Odysseus in person, I noticed that the pushers weren't even all that noticeable (and were so fun to use, more so than even traditional Lange pushers) when looking at the watch, especially when worn, and by then enough people have talked about the bracelet and mentioned that the bracelet looks far better in person that I was willing to take their word for it (which later on I was able to confirm when the boutique had the titanium version in store).

As for comparing it to other luxury stainless steel sports watches, I've only owned a Submariner, which I don't think belongs in the same league, so I won't bother comparing them, but I have seen in person and closely examined a 15500ST and an Overseas. I think all 3 are in the same league, and I love all 3 almost equally. Each has its considerable strengths and appeal. To me, the AP is the most beautiful, while both the Overseas and Odysseus are stunners in their own right while offering things that the AP doesn't (the Overseas is the most rugged and versatile while the Odysseus has the best finishing and engineering). I've never seen a Nautilus in person, but I generally find it aesthetically less appealing than the others and that it offers nothing to make it stand out (except perhaps a certain elegance that the others lack; and Aquanauts are downright ugly). If AP and VC offered their blue-dialed versions of their watches to me, I don't know which I would choose. But since Lange is the only one giving me an allocation (AP has offered me their other dial color variations, and my VC guy found another job, so I lost all contact with my local boutique), I don't have to make that choice, and I'll happily wait 2 to 3 years to get it. I think it's a very handsome watch that ticks a lot of boxes in terms of what I look for in a SS integrated bracelet sports watch and would fit in well with the rest of the collection.


----------



## mlcor

whoopdido1980 said:


> So I’m just curious did you buy the original Annual Calendar that was released in I believe believe 2010, or the 1815 version? The original version is discontinued. Frankly I don’t like the 1815 version, but I’ve always loved the original version. I always had the money, so I should have just bought one at some point in the past, but I never pulled the trigger. I finally decided to buy one this year, but obviously had to to go the pre-owned route. Thanks to CFR, I found a shop that that had one in excellent condition, that had just been overhauled by Lange and and also included almost a full 2 year warranty.
> 
> Also I‘m also curious why you were offered an Odysseus? I know how much the Annual Calendar costs, but what else did you buy, if you don’t mind me asking? From what I what understand, Lange has continued to change their policy regarding the Odysseus. Unless I’m mistaken, at the beginning you just had to buy ANY watch, so it could could be their cheapest watch and then you could get on the Odysseus list, then they changed it to a 40K watch before you could get on the list and now, unless I’m mistaken only something like “long time customers“ will be eligible to buy a SS watch.


I have the Saxonia Annual Calendar, the one that's now discontinued, in white gold. I didn't care for the 1815 AC, because I have a number of watches and a manual wind annual calendar didn't make sense for me.

My first Lange was a Saxonia Moonphase, lovely watch. I then bought an 1815 Up Down. I traded up from the Moonphase to the AC, and later on, the 1815 went as part of a deal where I acquired a Credor Eichii II (from the same AD). I think the Saxonia AC is one of the easiest to read, and my eyes aren't getting any younger.  

I was offered the Odysseus by my regular AD, before Lange switched to boutiques, based on my purchase history, and was approved by Lange. My AD now has a Lange boutique, so I could get back on the wait list if I wanted to, but as explained, I'm not interested in doing so. I guess my buying history would make me a long time customer, plus they know I'm not a flipper. I have a lot of mid-range pieces, some lower high end pieces (Overseas, RGM, JLC, etc.), but the AC and Credor are the only "upper" high end pieces I own. I'm not likely to buy anything else in that price range again.


----------



## immerschnell

All good responses guys. Thanks for the thoughts about your decisions. Good to learn about.


----------

