# Project 300



## k1gordon

Any update on the Project 300? I sent in my deposit - just curious. :-s


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## Yao

k1gordon said:


> Any update on the Project 300? I sent in my deposit - just curious. :-s


I am still trying to sort out a few more details and look at the timing for the remainder of the year. I hope to have a detailed update ready for you soon.


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## k1gordon

Bill - thanks for the update!


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## sunster

Cool. I'm still undecided whether to get in on this one. I'm sure the updates will help me decide :-!


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## dave43

Wasn't aware there was a project in the works. Where are the details?


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## Artonthewrist

dave43 said:


> Wasn't aware there was a project in the works. Where are the details?


Here you go check this out.

http://www.mkiiwatches.com/WSWrapper.jsp?mypage=le_300.htm

best to you,
Dan


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## tako_watch

New here and trying to do some catch up. very impressed so far with the MKII watches.
Interested in the Project 300 and checked out the link....is this still active, in terms of putting in a preorder? I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


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## Yao

tako_watch said:


> New here and trying to do some catch up. very impressed so far with the MKII watches.
> Interested in the Project 300 and checked out the link....is this still active, in terms of putting in a preorder? I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


Its still active but you have time on your side at this point. I am still trying to hash out one detail and to be honest I may not have a good answer until I travel to Switzerland in June.


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## Yao

tako_watch said:


> I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


I spent about 3 hours on e-mails today but only go through about 20 e-mails. I had some very involved questions.


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## tako_watch

Thank you.


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## tmoris

Artonthewrist said:


> Here you go check this out.
> 
> http://www.mkiiwatches.com/WSWrapper.jsp?mypage=le_300.htm
> 
> best to you,
> Dan


I had no idea there was another limited project such as this one. I have just paid and hopefully Im on board.

Why is this not in the Collection - Limited edition section? Or is this intentionally a hidden link? Or am I just blind? :-s


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## sunster

Delighted to hear the projects are ticking along.

Bill, do you have any drawings of the proposed dial for the 300? 

I know we can all hazard a guess as to how the case, bracelt and hands might look but what about your dial?


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## JCR

Hi, is there any rendering of this project, I am at the point of putting my name down but there is something else calling and I would like an idea of how this project looks before I push any buttons.
Jim


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## Yao

JCR said:


> Hi, is there any rendering of this project, I am at the point of putting my name down but there is something else calling and I would like an idea of how this project looks before I push any buttons.
> Jim


Not yet. I am still doing some testing. I am looking at creating a different mix of specifications to improve the project. Right now I am having a supplier make some samples of a sapphire crystal inlay. The inlay will take 6 weeks (end of June) though before I see the samples. If the samples turn out well we may actually be able to lower the price of the project and provide a package closer to what was offered on the Kingston. I believe this will increase the probability of success of the project.

So the short answer is that you still have some time :-d


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## Fawo

Please consider a chunky meaty mesh bracelet in this project. Im dropping my money in!


Cheers
Fawo


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## caesarmascetti

Yao said:


> Not yet. I am still doing some testing. I am looking at creating a different mix of specifications to improve the project. Right now I am having a supplier make some samples of a sapphire crystal inlay. The inlay will take 6 weeks (end of June) though before I see the samples. If the samples turn out well we may actually be able to lower the price of the project and provide a package closer to what was offered on the Kingston. I believe this will increase the probability of success of the project.
> 
> So the short answer is that you still have some time :-d


Hi Bill my 2 cents I'd buy this in a minute however, IMO I'd like to see you concentrate on making the case and movement the highest quality possible, IE CNC'd case, top grade movement. If this means a traditional metal bezel insert (to keep the price realistic) so be it. I've seen numerous saphire inserts and quite frankly except for the Blancpain they all look flat, no depth to them they give the bezel a dull look. I'd much rather see a traditional bezel insert along the lines of a Seadwellers gloss black, and know that the case and movement are of the highest grade possible. This would also probably speed up the project as it doesn't present all the development issues associated with saphire, acrylic inserts. Just my 2 cents


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## Yao

caesarmascetti said:


> Hi Bill my 2 cents I'd buy this in a minute however, IMO I'd like to see you concentrate on making the case and movement the highest quality possible, IE CNC'd case, top grade movement. If this means a traditional metal bezel insert (to keep the price realistic) so be it. I've seen numerous saphire inserts and quite frankly except for the Blancpain they all look flat, no depth to them they give the bezel a dull look. I'd much rather see a traditional bezel insert along the lines of a Seadwellers gloss black, and know that the case and movement are of the highest grade possible. This would also probably speed up the project as it doesn't present all the development issues associated with saphire, acrylic inserts. Just my 2 cents


Thanks for posting Caesar. If anyone else has some thoughts on the subject please post them here. I will incorporate them into a survey that we can use to nail down the best way to proceed with the project.

Please note that if you already have a deposit in that everything is still refundable at this point. So if the specifications change materially you still have the option to "bow-out". But in any event the survey will also be e-mailed to those that already have deposits in for their opinions.


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## Vegard

The thing is: This project being what it is and the seamaster 300 being what it was, the acrylic bezel is the most stunning part of that watch ( I used to own a watchco 300) and in part with the unique dial the focalpoint of the watch. The acrylic is duller IRL than sapphire, but the rather narrow bezel of the 300 eliminates a lot of the extra glare produced by sapphire. IMO a sapphire or acrylic bezel is extremely important for just this watch, more than any other infact.

-Vegard



caesarmascetti said:


> Hi Bill my 2 cents I'd buy this in a minute however, IMO I'd like to see you concentrate on making the case and movement the highest quality possible, IE CNC'd case, top grade movement. If this means a traditional metal bezel insert (to keep the price realistic) so be it. I've seen numerous saphire inserts and quite frankly except for the Blancpain they all look flat, no depth to them they give the bezel a dull look. I'd much rather see a traditional bezel insert along the lines of a Seadwellers gloss black, and know that the case and movement are of the highest grade possible. This would also probably speed up the project as it doesn't present all the development issues associated with saphire, acrylic inserts. Just my 2 cents


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## kyoungren

Disclaimer: I am a total newbie here. This is my first WUS post, in fact.

If the idea is to create an homage to the SM300, then I agree that a simpler metal bezel a la the original along with a high quality case and movement are highly desirable. If that speeds up the process, all the better. 

How about offering different color options for bezel / hands / date wheel / face? 

I think the Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean is kinda cool the way it resembles old SM300 but with the orange numbers and bezel option. The hands look good too.

I put in my deposit a couple of weeks ago, I hope you got it.


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## Yao

kyoungren said:


> Disclaimer: I am a total newbie here. This is my first WUS post, in fact.
> 
> If the idea is to create an homage to the SM300, then I agree that a simpler metal bezel a la the original along with a high quality case and movement are highly desirable. If that speeds up the process, all the better.
> 
> How about offering different color options for bezel / hands / date wheel / face?
> 
> I think the Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean is kinda cool the way it resembles old SM300 but with the orange numbers and bezel option. The hands look good too.
> 
> I put in my deposit a couple of weeks ago, I hope you got it.


The original had a luminous acrylic inlay.

Yes we got the deposit. I am still trying to find time to get that paperwork done for the Project 300. I have been pre-occupied with preparations for the Kingston.


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## kyoungren

*I should have read further down the thread!*

If the luminous acrylic bezel is an important part of the character of the original (sounds like it is), then it belongs on the Project 300.

All the better to differentiate it from a new Planet Ocean!

Speaking of eye-catching, that SAAF Lemaina 5012 that was referred to in the discussion of cushion cased watches knocked me out.

I'm in favor of a future Project 5012!


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## caesarmascetti

A very valid point about the bezel, it's just that I've been unimpressed with every saphire/acrylic insert I've seen. It just makes the bezel color look flat or dull, the sole exception being the Blancpain, and I think because it looks curved it seems "deeper" in color. Maybe the answer is to go for the very best on the case and movement for Bill's first all original design.


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## Vegard

caesarmascetti said:


> A very valid point about the bezel, it's just that I've been unimpressed with every saphire/acrylic insert I've seen. It just makes the bezel color look flat or dull, the sole exception being the Blancpain, and I think because it looks curved it seems "deeper" in color. Maybe the answer is to go for the very best on the case and movement for Bill's first all original design.


The Blancpain is really the "piece 'de resistance" when it comes to bezels. But that one is both wider and higher due to the curve as you mention. The Watchco 300 I had had a really nice 3d effect to the bezel as the acrylic layer was quite thick and extremely clear. I'm hoping that we can match that in 2010 :-! If we can, I don't think anyone will complain about the result :-!


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## bob m

iam thinking about this watch bill-any idea how many deposits are left and maybe in a few weeks/months time when the deposits start to get thin could you put out a warning so some of us fence sitters could be pushed to act...


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## Hector325

I think the luminous bezel would be an essential aspect of the homage. I would also like a head's up when the spaces on the pre-order become limited (especially if you get it down to Kingston prices.) Thanks!


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## pinchoff

Luminous acrylic inlay is very desirable, on my side


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## ghingus

Have to have the luminous bezel, and I'm fine with acrylic. Big part of the allure of this watch for me.


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## MizzouGuy

For me, I would be most interested in a sapphire bezel. Is it possible to do both options? If sapphire insert is part of the package I will send my deposit right away.


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## Hector325

Yeah I'd prefer the sapphire too. I should probably just wait for these opinions, since I think he is making a poll? I had a sapphire bezel on my Ocean 7 LM7 and it was really really nice. Of course I sold it to get a Vantage...


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## bob m

I think I am gonna pull the trigger on this deposit

names to think of now


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## pinchoff

Hector325 said:


> Yeah I'd prefer the sapphire too. I should probably just wait for these opinions, since I think he is making a poll? I had a sapphire bezel on my Ocean 7 LM7 and it was really really nice. Of course I sold it to get a Vantage...


 Hi, Hector, can you show me some pics/links of the insert? Doesn't it look too much transparent?

Thanks a lot!


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## Vegard

Got some pics of my watchco 300 and my LM7.


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## Artonthewrist

Vegard said:


> Got some pics of my watchco 300 and my LM7.
> 
> View attachment 286723
> 
> 
> View attachment 286724
> 
> 
> View attachment 286725


Hey these are nice do you have any side views you could offer as well?


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## Vegard

Artonthewrist said:


> Hey these are nice do you have any side views you could offer as well?


Both are sold unfortunately :-(

-V


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## Artonthewrist

Okay no worries thanks anyway.

Dan


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## Luso308win

Vegard said:


> Got some pics of my watchco 300 and my LM7.


For the price announced, I would most certainly prefer a Watcho SM300. And it is something that I already can see and buy. Consider this, Mr. Yao.


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## Yao

Luso308win said:


> For the price announced, I would most certainly prefer a Watcho SM300. And it is something that I already can see and buy. Consider this, Mr. Yao.


You are quite right. Its one of my motivations for trying to lower the price.


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## Artonthewrist

Ahemmmmmmm:

The Spec's on the as yet un named watch currently called project 300

41.75 - 42.00 mm  Length​ 47.50 mm Case height​ 13.00 - 14.00 mm (estimate) Case material​ 316L Stainless steel Case quality​ CNC machined - same quality level as Paradive (i.e. the highest level we offer) Water resistance​ 200 or 300 meters depending on case design Bezel​ 60 or 120 click uni-directional bezel with acrylic inlay. Strap attachment​ Spring bars Crystal​ Double domed sapphire crsytal with AR coatingon the interior surface only Crown​ Double gasket screw down crown.  Movement​ Elabore grade Rhodium plated ETA 2836-2 or 2824-2 decorated with Geneva stripes  Luminous material​ BG W9 (white color, blue glow) Dial​ Date and non-date "Big Triangle" dial at a minimum Handset​ Mk II MOD Swod hands (see LRRP) with new tooling for seconds hand. ​ Bracelet​ Solid link bracelet. We will try for a solid-end link bracelet but our fall back will be a folded-end piece solid link bracelet.

Presale price: $ 1,095.00usd

Watchco various versions at 
around 3500au or $3k bucks usd

It is great we have choices !


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## caesarmascetti

I think the prices for Watchco type 300's have jumped considerably see here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150441290293&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## bob m

3500 AU for a watchco and what is its true WR? no one seems to know how much water this thing can take... you gonna take a watch from the 60s that cost 3k diving? doubt it...snorkeling ah... check that too

there are guys on the omega forum that love these watchcos-as do i but not one of them take the watches swimming


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## Joe K.

I'll make a comment as an owner of a WatchCo that while the watch is nice, AFAIK they do not test for WP and there is no warranty for this. If anyone plans on using a watchco for diving, then make sure to have it tested first. 

Considering that you know what you are getting from Bill, the ability to customize and the warranty, I think it represents an excellent value. My 2c |>


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## Joe K.

Hope these helps:







































Artonthewrist said:


> Hey these are nice do you have any side views you could offer as well?


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## caesarmascetti

Joe K. said:


> I'll make a comment as an owner of a WatchCo that while the watch is nice, AFAIK they do not test for WP and there is no warranty for this. If anyone plans on using a watchco for diving, then make sure to have it tested first.
> 
> Considering that you know what you are getting from Bill, the ability to customize and the warranty, I think it represents an excellent value. My 2c |>


+1 I'd like to see Bill make this one as top notch as he can with a fully CNC'd case top grade movement etc.... and price it accordingly. I think I'm in the minority on this outlook however.

For what it's worth here's the latest from Watchco's sight on the Omega Seamaster 300 price:

*Stock: ome0005
Omega Men's Seamaster 300m Diver Date Automatic Wristwatch, New Old Stock
Circa: *1960s
*Material: *Stainless Steel
*Case Reference:* 166.0324
*Calibre #:* Automatic Omega 562
*Movement ref: *23039958
*Working Condition: *Yes
*Condition of case and bracelet: *MINT, New Old Stock
*Condition of dial: *MINT, New Old Stock
*Notes: *100% original Omega
*PRICE: $AU3500 *

*$3,500 AU $ at .855 exchange = $2,992.50 US Dollars*

*Hey Bill if you can make a top notch CNC'd case, insert, and top grade movement (2892) for $1,500-$1,600 I'm in.*


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## Kent108

If you want a watch that you can't really depend upon in the water any more, that would be difficult to have repaired and serviced, and costs almost three times as much, then by all means, go right ahead.



Luso308win said:


> For the price announced, I would most certainly prefer a Watcho SM300. And it is something that I already can see and buy. Consider this, Mr. Yao.


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## enkidu

Love those pictures. I'd be willing to pay a bit more for a 1mm thinner case + 2892 movement.


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## bob m

top movement for me-I dont mind the 1k price or even a bit more-I can always sell this most awesome milsub


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## Artonthewrist

Yes those help nice unit.


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## bob m

well Im in for the deposit, just dropped it...when bill gets back from euro-we will know what is up


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## es335

Hi Bill

A suggestion: please curve the date window cut out like they appeared in the 1960s. The modern day Watchcos are unauthentic is this regard. That its, the Watchcos they have an incorrect square window date cut out, which is not period-correct. Here's an example of the original vs the incorrect watcho date window cut out.


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## sunster

I see Precista have just re-run a few more of their version- the PRS 14.


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## Quartersawn

sunster said:


> I see Precista have just re-run a few more of their version- the PRS 14.


The problem with the Precista is they (foolishly IMO) increased the thickness to 14.3mm.

It is less than $600 shipped though.


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## bob m

yah the prescista is nice but its only got a 2824 and a flat acrylic crystal-and no metal band-Im gonna wait for bills BUT if bill dont do this-the prs 14 is better than nothing

that omega is so nice-its my watch


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## Artonthewrist

bob m said:


> yah the prescista is nice but its only got a 2824 and a flat acrylic crystal-and no metal band-Im gonna wait for bills BUT if bill dont do this-the prs 14 is better than nothing
> 
> that omega is so nice-its my watch


Actually the Prs14 comes with a Domed Acrylic Crystal and not sure about this but I believe it might also come with a spare, at least the first one I ever saw did along with a polishing cloth.


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## simonsev

The PRS-14 is a work of art in it's own right, different enough to be it's "own" watch, similar enough to capture the style of the original. The domed acrylic is fantastic and the extra width has given you the higher antimag properties.

Bills will be great, the PRS-14 is also great, I am pretty sure my garage will have both...b-)


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## medtech

I'm in! :-!

FWIW, I'd love to see a black date wheel w/ white numbering.


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## Cyclenby

I am new to the forum and have been all over the board (literally) trying to find just the right diver. Thing is what brought me here to WUS was falling head over heals for the vintage Seamaster 300M. I tried for the PRS-14 and while close in look/feel and reasonable in price they are nowhere to be found (maybe available December). I've looked at the PRS-3 but it will not satisfy the hunger... I checked out MKII and found serious delight in the Stingray but again hesitated because of that 300M lurking in the back of my mind... After all the obsessive searching I've decided not to go homage, not to go with something close, but something honoring the original and re-invented. Kinda makes me think of the new Mustang or Camaro, not the same but in many respects better. I am a car guy planning to be a watch guy soon.

Yao, if your reading this you have my sincerest respect for what you can do designing a watch and hope in turn you respect my leap of faith as I plan to make a deposit for what I hope will be a dream realized in Q1/2011. Stay the course and deliver that 2011 Camaro or something similar in the watch world.

Regards to all on this site and fellow pre-sale followers! :thanks

Cyclenby


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## Karm

Hi everybody,

I'm new to the forum :-! but a long time admier of MK11 watches. I used to own a Vantage and just missed out with a deposit for the Kingston general orders (I received the email but when I clicked on the ordering link at the appropriate time - nothing :-s) 

Anyhow I thought the best way to get over not getting a Kingston would be to redirect my hankerings towards the project 300, which I think could be a real winner. I have looked at the the Precista PRS3 non le version but think the lug-to-lug length (49.6mm) and 22mm lug width are a little too much for my sub 7 inch wrists, whereas the proposed project 300 dimensions look excellent. I have checked the thread but can't find anything about the style bracelet Bill is planning to use other than that they will try for solid-end-links. I'm assuming it will be 20mm lug width and omega 1171/1 like in nature? I don't think a different style of stainless steel bracelet would work and it will be nice to have something different to the oyster style. 

Cheers,
Mark


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## JCR

I have a new batch PRS14 and it really is nice, however it was a run of 50 NoS cases left over from the first batch and there will be no more of this type. It has 20mm lug width so no problem there. The case is fine, although it is "thick" it is nothing like a 7750 case (I haven't banged it on any doors yet). Bezel, case, dial, hands are all excellent. Crown could be a little bigger and no std bracelet are the only slight issues.
I will be looking out for the MKii SM300 to see if I need both! In the meantime I will still enjoy my lovely Stingray and see what happens with the Kingston.


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## dnpina

I am really looking forward to the coming arrival, whenever that may be, of MKII's 300 project. My deposit is in and I hope to be one of the first posters showing off my 300. Otherwise, I sit content with my new Quad 10 (last batch) and wait for my Kingston to get here. Gilt dial and hands no date, original bezel, and blue lume. That one, my friends will not be one ever see the sales forum. Now if only I could get a DLC Milsub off my mind, then I could get on with things.

dan.


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## DaveB1

Consider me a fence sitter on this one... especially since I didn't even _know_ about the Kingston until today! I really dig the original SM300, and would certainly prefer to spend my cold hard cash on a vintage one vs. 3500 bucks on a Watchco. The fact that this comes in at the price point it does makes it an entirely different ball game! Personally my preference would be a sapphire insert, I just prefer the looks. My other option (or rather, a potential additional purchase) would be the Corvus Bradley. The notion of US designed/built, modern improvements/interpretations of the classics is VERY appealing! That said, I'm hesitant to throw down a deposit on something I've not seen...

Any renders forthcoming?


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## Arthur

DaveB1 said:


> Consider me a fence sitter on this one... especially since I didn't even _know_ about the Kingston until today! I really dig the original SM300, and would certainly prefer to spend my cold hard cash on a vintage one vs. 3500 bucks on a Watchco. The fact that this comes in at the price point it does makes it an entirely different ball game! Personally my preference would be a sapphire insert, I just prefer the looks. My other option (or rather, a potential additional purchase) would be the Corvus Bradley. The notion of US designed/built, modern improvements/interpretations of the classics is VERY appealing! That said, I'm hesitant to throw down a deposit on something I've not seen...
> 
> Any renders forthcoming?


I would imagine that the Project 300 preorder parameters will be the same as previous MKII watches. If you put down your deposit, but at some point in time decide that you are 1) Not happy with the final design, or 2) You get tired of waiting , Bill has always refunded the full deposit. You can rest assured that what you get will be worth the wait, but should you decide not to wait, you are not out any money.


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## enkidu

I'd prefer a sapphire bezel as well. Additionally I'd prefer something with a flatter profile, like the bezel on the IWC Aquatimer, as apposed to the more domed bezel profile of the current BP FF.


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## Kent108

You know that deposits are refundable up until assembly starts, right? Unless money's tight, I'd err on the side of caution and reserve a spot; you can always back out if the finalized plans aren't to your liking.



DaveB1 said:


> Consider me a fence sitter on this one... especially since I didn't even _know_ about the Kingston until today! I really dig the original SM300, and would certainly prefer to spend my cold hard cash on a vintage one vs. 3500 bucks on a Watchco. The fact that this comes in at the price point it does makes it an entirely different ball game! Personally my preference would be a sapphire insert, I just prefer the looks. My other option (or rather, a potential additional purchase) would be the Corvus Bradley. The notion of US designed/built, modern improvements/interpretations of the classics is VERY appealing! That said, I'm hesitant to throw down a deposit on something I've not seen...
> 
> Any renders forthcoming?


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## 66Cooper

Found this today on the Bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-OMEGA-S...=ViewItem&pt=Wristwatches&hash=item4cefb72516

Said to be NOS if they are even around still but its a really nice looker. These are growing on me for sure. Though, the potential for a Pan-Am GMT is making me hold off a bit


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## DaveB1

Kent108 said:


> You know that deposits are refundable up until assembly starts, right? Unless money's tight, I'd err on the side of caution and reserve a spot; you can always back out if the finalized plans aren't to your liking.


Several people called my attention to that; it definitely makes this decision a no-brainer. I'll be sending in a deposit soon, and will practice my patience skills... :-!

edit: rather, I _would_ have sent in my deposit, but am getting java errors when I submit my CC info?


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## Cyclenby

enkidu said:


> I'd prefer a sapphire bezel as well. Additionally I'd prefer something with a flatter profile, like the bezel on the IWC Aquatimer, as apposed to the more domed bezel profile of the current BP FF.


Put is all on a matching (brushed or polished) mesh bracelet and I am all set! Deposit already in (you should have heard me explain to my wife a deposit on something that exists only in concept) LOL! :-!


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## medtech

FWIW, after seeing the actual pics of the Kingston I think the Project 300 is going to be one of Bill's best creations yet. b-)

The Kingston really marks a new level of quality, fit and finish all coming together into one and I think we're just seeing the beginning of a new level of watch coming out of the MKII camp. 

I firmly believe the 300 will surpass everyone's expectations and will be worth every penny, as well as the long wait.

To those sitting on the fence...IMO, you won't have another chance at that watch for a long time cause they will sell out and people will hold onto them.


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## coris

I'm in on this one b-)

Plank owner reservation just sent, and now the wait begins. I can't see having to "pull out" of this one, considering every one of the MKII homages have been spot on. 

The Project 300 will surely be a hit. |>


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## Cyclenby

Newbie Blank Owner Question:

I put my deposit in a few weeks ago and other than an automated email receipt is there anything I get from Bill to confirm my deposit saying "I'm in for the P300" initial sale?

Cyclenby:-s


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## eeek

Am I missing something here? Has the Project 300 officially launched and is Bill taking pre-orders? :-s


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## bob m

Cyclenby said:


> Newbie Blank Owner Question:
> 
> I put my deposit in a few weeks ago and other than an automated email receipt is there anything I get from Bill to confirm my deposit saying "I'm in for the P300" initial sale?
> 
> Cyclenby:-s


nah I think you are good-thats all anyone gets-the receipt. Bill will honor it


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## Kent108

He has been for quite some time, actually.

Hopefully, mods/Bill doesn't mind my posting the link:
http://www.mkiiwatches.com/WSWrapper.jsp?mypage=le_300.htm



eeek said:


> Am I missing something here? Has the Project 300 officially launched and is Bill taking pre-orders? :-s


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## eeek

Wow, this is news to me! I hope I'm not too late. I'm definitely jumping on this one.


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## medtech

If Bill reads this, here's my 2 cents so far...

I the the 300 should be named "300"
I think it should be WR to 300m
I think the production should be limited to 300 (and individually numbered if poss)

Even if it raises the price, I think the case should be CNC'd
Sapphire double domed crystal - yes (heavy AR coating to cut glare)
Acrylic bezel insert - yes (unless sapphire looks cooler)

IMHO,

medtech


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## bob m

no AR on outside please, just inside


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## william provence

Saving the money as we speak. Looking forward to seeing it........Bill


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## Fpompeo

Hiya Bill!

Forgive me if previously posted, but do you have some renderings of the SM300 to share? Would love to see some pics.

best,
frank


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## wats911

Just wanted to say hi. I'm new to MKII, and just put down my deposit for the Project 300. It really does sound like an exciting project, and I can't wait to see what Bill comes up with!


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## cpotters

wats911 said:


> Just wanted to say hi. I'm new to MKII, and just put down my deposit for the Project 300. It really does sound like an exciting project, and I can't wait to see what Bill comes up with!


Welcome to the MKII forum: the 300 is a good choice to start with. Your coming in at the beginning of the whole process, which is fascinating to see as the whole thing takes shape over time. Enjoy the ride!:-!


----------



## AlejandrOmega

Hi all,
I'm new here, but have enjoyed Bill's designs for a long time. I am the current owner of a Quad 10 (bought used) and just put my order down for the project '300'. 

Bill, here's my input: The luminous bezel is really one of the biggest features that set this watch apart. I truly believe that must be maintained. I think the 'big triangle' configuration is the most desirable. Another thought is an acrylic crystal. I know that lots of people prefer the sapphire, but the acrylic really gives them a warm tone. My final suggestion would be to keep the size the same as the old ones. They were big for their day, but perfectly proportioned for today's market. 

I had a watchco version and wish I never sold it. Especially now that I see what they sell for today. 

One quick question for those who have ordered before from the website. Is there anyway to status my order? I never got an email confirmation (i just ordered it 15 mins ago, so maybe the system takes time?) 
Thanks!
Alex


----------



## wats911

AlejandrOmega said:


> One quick question for those who have ordered before from the website. Is there anyway to status my order? I never got an email confirmation (i just ordered it 15 mins ago, so maybe the system takes time?)
> Thanks!
> Alex


Alex, if you havn't sorted this out, you might want to check your spam / trash. Thats where mine ended up.


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## AlejandrOmega

wats911 said:


> Alex, if you havn't sorted this out, you might want to check your spam / trash. Thats where mine ended up.


Thanks. I didn't see it there either, but I have a feeling that there are just some issues with the order system right now.

My CC was charged the deposit amount so that's hopefully an indication that it went thru.

Best,
Alex


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## wats911

So who thinks we need a sticky thread for the Project 300? Or is that premature?


----------



## AlejandrOmega

hmmm......I'm getting to know the feeling. Two days on the 'waiting list' and i'm already getting excited!


----------



## sunster

wats911 said:


> So who thinks we need a sticky thread for the Project 300? Or is that premature?


Personally i'd like to see Bill get the Kingston shipped before we harass him with project 300 details


----------



## bob m

AlejandrOmega said:


> hmmm......I'm getting to know the feeling. Two days on the 'waiting list' and i'm already getting excited!


I hope you ready to wait about 18 months-maybe more because thats how long its gonna take:-!


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## bob m

sunday morning bump


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## wats911

While we wait patiently for some updates on the 300, I have a question to raise. Of those of you who have gotten in line for the 300, how many are also waiting on the Kingston? And for those folks, do you foresee the two watches playing different roles in your collection (dressier vs. more casual). No doubt, the versatility of both is a huge selling point, but would love to hear your thoughts. Discuss.


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## bob m

once bill gets the kingston ordering under control, Id like to know how many people have sent in deposits, just to get a count of how many people are interested.


----------



## wielingab

Yao said:


> Thanks for posting Caesar. If anyone else has some thoughts on the subject please post them here. I will incorporate them into a survey that we can use to nail down the best way to proceed with the project.
> 
> Please note that if you already have a deposit in that everything is still refundable at this point. So if the specifications change materially you still have the option to "bow-out". But in any event the survey will also be e-mailed to those that already have deposits in for their opinions.


Hi everyone,

I must be sleeping, but I never even saw this post before and therefor not knowing this project.

Some remarks about the bezel insert, I have the Stingray with the acrylic bezel and the LM-7 with the shappire bezel insert. Both inserts are stunning, with the Shappire insert more reflecting in the sun. therefor I like the acrylic bezel insert more, ads to the "vintage" style of the watch more..

Bart


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## bob m

got a response today....deposit was good (sent in may) and the decision to go or no go has not yet been made...xfingers maybe in a month or 2 we will get an answer...no rush thou |>


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## wats911

Looks like we may get an answer faster than that, based on Bill's latest blog post. Lets hope its a go!

Mk II Watches » Project 300 update


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## wats911

opps


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## jussi

I couldn't hold it any longer....Just made the deposit on this one.... 
So all I can do now is keep my fingers crossed for the project to really kick off & wait some 14-18 months ;-)


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## bob m

Hope the survey comes out soon


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## wats911

Thought you guys might want to have a look at this:

Explaining A Classic: The Omega Seamaster 300 - Blog - Hodinkee


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## kmangino47

Hi, I am a new guy to MKII and the fourm, been reading but this is my 1st post. I can wait as long as it takes for a quality product....and now i am in it with the rest of you, just put money down.....i can read how crazy the kingstone is right now but any idea of time line for the 300?


----------



## Shel

kmangino47 said:


> Hi, I am a new guy to MKII and the fourm, been reading but this is my 1st post. I can wait as long as it takes for a quality product....and now i am in it with the rest of you, just put money down.....i can read how crazy the kingstone is right now but any idea of time line for the 300?


I'm in a similar boat....

I'm ready to put down a deposit, it looks like an exciting project.

However, I'm wondering, being this seems to have started somewhere around April?, has a final decision on moving forward been made yet?

It seems that Q1 2011 is overly optimistic, if a go forward decision hasn't yet been made. Any updates on a possible timeframe?

Thanks!


----------



## tmoris

Shel said:


> It seems that Q1 2011 is overly optimistic, if a go forward decision hasn't yet been made. Any updates on a possible timeframe?
> 
> Thanks!


I myself did make the deposit and i expect that around 1Q2011 i might get an update on when the project will get started. My expectation on receiving the watch is around 1Q2012..


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## kmangino47

sunster said:


> Personally i'd like to see Bill get the Kingston shipped before we harass him with project 300 details


yea, ok i get it bill is superbizzy with kingston. thats fine and i dont mind waiting i think more real time frame is gunna b summer/fall 2012. and i am prepared to wait--- just making sure that i know as little as the rest of us...how about an update telling when we will get an update. lol


----------



## LAPD

tmoris said:


> I myself did make the deposit and i expect that around 1Q2011 i might get an update on when the project will get started. My expectation on receiving the watch is around 1Q2012..


Same, I got my deposit in too.
And I totally agree with you about 1Q2011 for an update maybe some drawings, and 1st to 2nd quarter 2012 for word on delivery dates.

Ahhh the foresight...

I've always wanted one of these, in the mean time I'm stocking up on NATO bands, Maratac, G10's, checking out Corvus and seeing what will go best with it apart from the solid end link bracelet.

Patience is a Virtue, good luck to everyone especially Bill.


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## bob m

post 102 woot!!!

lets hope Bill does this-once the kingstons are out of the way...figure I got 2 more years with my LRP


----------



## Randy9999

Just clicked over and sent my $350 PayPal deposit for Project 300.  Now if only I could still secure a Kingston spot, my MkII life would be complete.


----------



## bob m

b-)


----------



## mbmorell17

Bill,

Any update on Project 300? I'm a bit late in the ordering but just did a deposit for the pre-order. When will they start shipping. You'll see my note, I ask as I will be redeploying mid Feb and will be moving around a lot till I settle down in May 11. 

Mike


----------



## tmoris

my morning mail:

Hi ,
​ I finally have some news for you regarding the Project 300 watch. In short I have decided it best to incorporate some more expensive features into the project and as a result the price will have to go up for both the pre-order customers and general order customers.

Primarily the changes revolve around the competitive environment and the requirement that the Project 300 watch match the original watch as closely as possible. At the top end of the range the Project 300 watch will compete with WatchCo's kit watches using original Omega parts (priced around $1,900 (used) to $2,900 ("new")) and at the bottom end of the range by fake versions of the SM300 selling probably for a few hundred dollars. If this project takes off and sells well it won't take too long for an enterprising black marketeer to realize that all he/she has to do is remove the Omega logos and they will be able to under-mine this project in short order. The changes I have incorporated into the specifications have been designed to maxmize the value to you while minmizing the risk to your participation.​ 
•	Sapphire bezel inlay: My reasons for changing the specification to sapphire glass from acrylic are two-fold. The first is that sapphire will look newer longer and give the watch a richer appearance and feel. The second reason is that it will likely prove easier to mass produce than using acrylic. Over the years I have had quite a bit of experience using acrylic inlays and despite my best efforts with my latest supplier dimensional consistency continues to be a challenge. Sapphire glass can be made to tighter tolerances in smaller batches, which theoretically will improve manufacturability. However this also means using a more expensive supplier and handing off more of the assembly to the case supplier, which naturally also increases costs.

•	High domed sapphire glass crystal: The first reason that I have selected this option is because it will enable the finished watch to more closely match the original SM300s dimensions. Usually incorporating a standard double domed crystal increases the thickness of the watch because the movement has to be set farther down in the case body. A high domed sapphire crystal resembles the shape, roughly, of a bottle cap, which is the most similar to the original acrylic crystals on the SM300s. A doubled domed sapphire glass is closer in shape to say a lens from a pair of glasses. Not only with the high domed sapphire crystal get us closer to dimensions of the original watch it will also be an improvement over the original watch's specifications.

•	Case - from CNC machined to stamped/CNC machined: This primarily reason for the change is cost. Continuing the project in combination with the other two additions to the case specifications would have placed the retail price of the watch above $2,000. This I believe would have become an unacceptably high price in most people's view.

•	Spare bracelet: We should be able to keep this option in the final package. The goal is to provide a solid-end link bracelet. However there is still a minor possibility that we may have to resort to using a folded-end link/solid link bracelet. This is because I will have to coordinate the purchase of the bracelet myself, rather than relying on the case supplier, which is the normal procedure. My own supplier can manufacture a bracelet closest to the original without the need for new tooling. The incremental risk is offset by the significantly reduced cost of using existing tooling.

It is important to note that there is execution risk associated with the sapphire bezel inlay. My guess at this point is that the inlay will cause delays in the manufacturing of the watch as it is something that I haven't yet incorporated into one of my watches. I am currently in the trial phase with two suppliers. My best estimate at this time is that the project will take about 12 to 18 months from the time that we get enough interest. At this point we have about 50% of the required interest necessary to proceed with the project but at the same time haven't done any promotion or advertising for the project in about 6-7 months.​
After this there is a survey link that i wont copy paste since i assume its only intended for those already in the project.

My newbie concerns: 
- stamped/CNC machined (how different is it from CNC machined)
- folded-end link/solid link bracelet (what exactly is that and how does it differ from the original)


----------



## ASRSPR

tmoris said:


> My newbie concerns:
> - stamped/CNC machined (how different is it from CNC machined)
> - folded-end link/solid link bracelet (what exactly is that and how does it differ from the original)


CNC/Stamped presumably means some case parts will be stamped and other machined. There was some discussion earlier in this thread about the differences between the two processes, I think.

As for a bracelet with folded end links and solid links, I think Bill is reiterating earlier concerns that while he was trying to go for solid end links, he might only be able to get folded ones. The end links are the links where the bracelet connects to the lugs of the watch case. Solid ones are a single block of steel, generally with a hole for the spring bar and some sort of attachment mechanism for the other bracelet links. Folded ones are a thin sheet of steel that is folded into roughly the same shape, but is hollow. Generally, the same spring bar that goes through the end link also goes through the first bracelet link, which usually means that the end link comes off with the spring bar when everything is disassembled.

Original SM300s are commonly found on period 1171/633s, which are folded link bracelets of similar design as I've described.


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## sunster

"My best estimate at this time is that the project will take about 12 to 18 months from the time that we get enough interest. At this point we have about 50% of the required interest necessary to proceed with the project but at the same time haven’t done any promotion or advertising for the project in about 6-7 months."


This watch is going to be awesome....however not too sure I wanna wait around for about 3 years. For those of you who have more patience than me, this looks as though its another Yao winner


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## bob m

I can wait...I got a custom no date milsub, I need to get another couple of years out of this watch anyways. Plus a couple years of squirreling $ away will be well worth it. When you figure one less starbucks a day along with the deposit, will get you Bills latest and greatest watch.


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## pinchoff

sunster said:


> "My best estimate at this time is that the project will take about 12 to 18 months from the time that we get enough interest. At this point we have about 50% of the required interest necessary to proceed with the project but at the same time haven't done any promotion or advertising for the project in about 6-7 months."
> 
> This watch is going to be awesome....however not too sure I wanna wait around for about 3 years. For those of you who have more patience than me, this looks as though its another Yao winner


I'm just 50, so, I have plenty of time. It is great to build on a 2year long project


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## enkidu

I'm excited about the changes to the 300 project. I love the idea of a sapphire bezel, especially if it is a flat profile like the ProPlof as I expect it would be. The high-domed sapphire crystal is an improvement in my mind also. If those two get combined into a case that has the lugs and case shape of the original Royal Navy Seamaster 300 and a big triangle, it would be just about the perfect retro-tool watch in my book. The new additions make the price increase well worth it. I would, of course, get mine made in a destro formation as is my wont. .

One thing, however, which I find annoying on my current big triangle watch, a "Great White" Seamaster GMT, is that the thin minute markers don't exist all along the edges, but are obscured by the big triangle at the top. This makes stopping the second hand "dead center" at the top a bit of a hit more miss proposition. I'd love it if there were all 60 tick marks (or 60 tiny dots) all along the edge of the dial.\

Oh, and I put my deposit down a while back.


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## sunster

Has Bill released any drawings yet on this?


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## wats911

Not yet, but on page 3 or 4, there's a couple great reference photo's of the old Omega SM300. 

Also, I'm in. I don't mind the increased price point, as it's broken up into installments.


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## tmoris

ASRSPR said:


> CNC/Stamped presumably means some case parts will be stamped and other machined. There was some discussion earlier in this thread about the differences between the two processes, I think.
> 
> As for a bracelet with folded end links and solid links, I think Bill is reiterating earlier concerns that while he was trying to go for solid end links, he might only be able to get folded ones. The end links are the links where the bracelet connects to the lugs of the watch case. Solid ones are a single block of steel, generally with a hole for the spring bar and some sort of attachment mechanism for the other bracelet links. Folded ones are a thin sheet of steel that is folded into roughly the same shape, but is hollow. Generally, the same spring bar that goes through the end link also goes through the first bracelet link, which usually means that the end link comes off with the spring bar when everything is disassembled.
> 
> Original SM300s are commonly found on period 1171/633s, which are folded link bracelets of similar design as I've described.


thanks for the explanation. so if i understand correctly, then solid end is of higher quality, but SM300 used folded ends, thus getting as close as possible to the original would mean picking these over the solid end links?

i dont really care whether the watch is a 100-200 bucks more expensive or not, as long as i get a masterpiece. if i am to wait another 2 yrs for it, then i prefer perfection over cost..


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## wats911

Question: Bill's survey indicated that the original deposit that we put down would be applied at the second installment. Did I read that right? If so, when does the initial "place holder" deposit come due? Have any of you guys put that down yet? Just trying to plan accordingly. Thanks!


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## medtech

I'm just guessing, but I would assume all of our deposits are "original", then the remainder will be applied to the second installment. When the second installment time comes around we will all owe the balance, and so on.



wats911 said:


> Question: Bill's survey indicated that the original deposit that we put down would be applied at the second installment. Did I read that right? If so, when does the initial "place holder" deposit come due? Have any of you guys put that down yet? Just trying to plan accordingly. Thanks!


----------



## ASRSPR

tmoris said:


> thanks for the explanation. so if i understand correctly, then solid end is of higher quality, but SM300 used folded ends, thus getting as close as possible to the original would mean picking these over the solid end links?
> 
> i dont really care whether the watch is a 100-200 bucks more expensive or not, as long as i get a masterpiece. if i am to wait another 2 yrs for it, then i prefer perfection over cost..


Folded end links aren't really much "worse" or "better" than solid ones. They both share the same weak point: the spring bar. Well-constructed folded end links should also hold the bracelet link in place pretty well too. Solid end links are preferred because they are marginally heavier and give the impression of better construction.

On the other hand, folded link bracelets just feel flimsy. I don't have the same confidence in them since they're baring the strain placed on the bracelet where the solid end link usually isn't (since the bracelet links are directly connected to the lugs by the spring bar). Folded links would be more historically accurate, but I think less suitable for the Mk II creed. I have a period 1171/633 bracelet that came with my pre-moon Speedmaster. I wear that watch on leather because the bracelet feels so flimsy.


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## Thieuster

Yes I agree with you on the flimsyness of the Omega 1171 bracelet. But the same goes for old Rolex bracelets... Then again, lets assume that Bill produces a watch with the same lugwidth as the original SM300. How many of us will put the MKII on an original 1171 bracelet? A lot of people, I think.

And a lot of future owners will put the watch on an Omega mesh, I think! Thinking into that direction: a lot of us will give an arm and a leg for a decent quality Omega-ish mesh! I know that there's something similar on the market with removable links, but a MKII mesh, longer than the original Omega (which is too short for the average 21st century wrist...), with an Omega-ish clasp and / or compatible with the Omega extention pieces will sell like hot cakes! We would be able to wear it on more than one MKII model, making it interchangable!

Menno


----------



## enkidu

Thieuster said:


> And a lot of future owners will put the watch on an Omega mesh, I think! Thinking into that direction: a lot of us will give an arm and a leg for a decent quality Omega-ish mesh! I know that there's something similar on the market with removable links, but a MKII mesh, longer than the original Omega (which is too short for the average 21st century wrist...), with an Omega-ish clasp and / or compatible with the Omega extention pieces will sell like hot cakes! We would be able to wear it on more than one MKII model, making it interchangable!


Having the mkii 300 come with a mesh bracelet instead of a spare bracelet would totally rock! I understand that the added complexity/difficulty of coordinating another separately manufactured component might not be worth the trouble. Of course, if you consider that the same mesh could be used/sold as an option for the upcoming TR watches and other watches it might be worth the investment in the long run.


----------



## kmangino47

wats911 said:


> Question: Bill's survey indicated that the original deposit that we put down would be applied at the second installment. Did I read that right? If so, when does the initial "place holder" deposit come due? Have any of you guys put that down yet? Just trying to plan accordingly. Thanks!


I HAD SAME QUESTION EMAILED MKII AND GOT THIS BACK VERY QUICK RESPONSE:

Not yet. Sometime after the survey is completed, if we have enough people on the project we'll send you another email for next step.

Regards,
Winnie


----------



## MHe225

Thieuster said:


> A lot of future owners will put the watch on an Omega mesh, I think! Thinking into that direction: a lot of us will give an arm and a leg for a decent quality Omega-ish mesh! I know that there's something similar on the market with removable links, but a MKII mesh, longer than the original Omega (which is too short for the average 21st century wrist...), with an Omega-ish clasp and / or compatible with the Omega extention pieces will sell like hot cakes! We would be able to wear it on more than one MKII model, making it interchangable!





enkidu said:


> Having the mkii 300 come with a mesh bracelet instead of a spare bracelet would totally rock! I understand that the added complexity/difficulty of coordinating another separately manufactured component might not be worth the trouble. Of course, if you consider that the same mesh could be used/sold as an option for the upcoming TR watches and other watches it might be worth the investment in the long run.


Funny you guys mention this, as I have been thinking the same. The leather strap on my Speedy Pro needed to be replaced earlier this summer and I decided to splurge and get an original Omega mesh bracelet:








I have no wrist-shot, unfortunately, but am happy to report that, being an "old guy", I am blessed with an average 20th century wrist :-d and the size of this mesh is perfect for me. And very comfortable to wear. A bit pricey, but excellent quality as far as I can judge.

After I received this mesh, I have been contemplating ordering another one for my IWC Portuguese and try the same on my Quad10. I think it will work fantastic with both watches and the upcoming SM300 alike.

RonB


----------



## tmoris

ASRSPR said:


> Folded end links aren't really much "worse" or "better" than solid ones. They both share the same weak point: the spring bar.


And what is the weak point about it? I never had a bracelet, so far all my watches have been shipped with leather or rubber straps, thus im very much a newbie to bracelet related issues..



Thieuster said:


> Yes I agree with you on the flimsyness of the Omega 1171 bracelet. But the same goes for old Rolex bracelets... Then again, lets assume that Bill produces a watch with the same lugwidth as the original SM300. How many of us will put the MKII on an original 1171 bracelet? A lot of people, I think.


 Not so sure about that. I myself dont really intend to switch bracelets on mkii, i assume to wear it in the setup that will be shipped.. I dont have a deep knowledge of omega's history and evolution of this watch so i trust Bill will setup it in a way that wont require me changing a single piece..


----------



## kmangino47

+1 On Mesh!


----------



## ASRSPR

tmoris said:


> And what is the weak point about it? I never had a bracelet, so far all my watches have been shipped with leather or rubber straps, thus im very much a newbie to bracelet related issues..


I simply mean that the point of failure for both solid and folded end links is the spring bar.

If you had a folded end link that was designed like most solid end links - with a spring bar that goes through the end link and a separate pin that held the rest of the bracelet to the end link - the thin folded metal might conceivably bend and break. But most folded end link have the sprint bar extend through the first non-end bracelet link, so the first bracelet link is actually connected to the lugs directly by the spring bar and the end link bears little burden.

As for a mesh bracelet, I'm hesitant to imagine any suggestion that will only drive costs up. I've rather enjoyed my new Staib mesh on my modern Omega SMP, but it's not for everyone and if one or the other had to be chosen, I think a solid bracelet would no doubt have many more fans.


----------



## 66Cooper

I can certainly vouch for that!!! I had a very nice Victorinox chrono on a 20mm Omega mesh. Key word being HAD there. Springbar failure and it ended up at the bottom of Lake Keowee, SC. I spent every morning till I left getting up early and heading to spots where i thought it might have fallen off at and dove down to see. I actually found a watch at one point but it was the cheapest cheap digi you can find. I was gutted!


----------



## tmoris

so if the spring bar has these issues, why does bill use it? is the price difference too big to use a better / longer lasting solution?


----------



## Kent108

As far as I know, there aren't a lot of options available. Bill COULD use fixed bars, but that would make it impossible to change bracelets or straps (except NATOs and the like), and likely many customers would object to that. He might use screw-in bars (don't know the technical name), but that would probably disrupt the look of the watch -- a problem when you're creating an homage. (Also, I think the screw-in bars have a tendency to get unscrewed, with Murphy's law making it so that they do so at the worst possible time; the solution to that -- loc-tite-ing the bars, presents other problems.)

I might also note that the primary potential consequence of a springbar failure -- that your watch falls off your wrist (possibly without you noticing it or while you're on a dive) -- is largely mitigated by using a NATO or Zulu strap. So in situations in which you need to be especially careful (e.g., while diving or engaging in rough activity), you just need to use such a strap. The likelihood that the spring bar will fail as you're at your desk job is pretty low.


----------



## ASRSPR

tmoris said:


> so if the spring bar has these issues, why does bill use it? is the price difference too big to use a better / longer lasting solution?


There's nothing wrong with spring bars in general. Everyone uses them. They work well and I think are the best choice if you ever want to use anything other than NATO/Zulu straps. But they should be inspected regularly and replaced if they become bent or corroded.

All I really meant was that the spring bar is generally what will fail if there's a failure - not the bracelet end links. It's like saying that the balance staff is a weak point of a mechanical watch rather than, say, the hands. If you drop it, the balance wheel might crack, but the hands are never going to break off.


----------



## Steve356

Just wanted to correct something mentioned here earlier about hollow end links being just as safe as solid end links. That is just not true. A solid endlink protects the spring bar. It would be very difficult for the spring bar to break off. A hollow end link, on the other hand, does not protect the spring bar from sideway stresses which can bend it and cause it to fall out of the holes in the lugs.


----------



## Vegard

Steve356 said:


> Just wanted to correct something mentioned here earlier about hollow end links being just as safe as solid end links. That is just not true. A solid endlink protects the spring bar. It would be very difficult for the spring bar to break off. A hollow end link, on the other hand, does not protect the spring bar from sideway stresses which can bend it and cause it to fall out of the holes in the lugs.


This is usually true as a well constructed SEL will displace the pressure during stress more evenly throughout the whole length of the springbar. It also makes for a rather less rattly construction in the long term. I'm eager to see how the rivetted bracelet with SELs will hold up on the Kingston.
The most obvious and most durable solution would be to use shoulderless 1,80mm 2102 springbars with SELs and have drilled lugs, to make a very robust construction which also makes it easy to change straps/bracelet. The only problem being that the SM300 didn't come with that option, but in my opinion would only distinguish it more from the fakes out there.

-V


----------



## tmoris

there's a news update and a new page for the pre-order being opened

the price jumped , i guess that means i wasnt the only one who accepted higher quality with higher prices in the survey..


----------



## sunster

If the design process has been as complicated as the Kingstons' then I'd give the estimate of 2013 at least. Will be a great watch though


----------



## rmasso

Does this mean that the Kingston's will begin shipping more quickly now that he is opening up Project 300 again? One would hope. I also read in wristwatch annual 2011 that Bill is coming up with 2 original designs sometime summer 2011... I am very anxious to see those.
Rich


----------



## tmoris

rmasso said:


> Does this mean that the Kingston's will begin shipping more quickly now that he is opening up Project 300 again? One would hope. I also read in wristwatch annual 2011 that Bill is coming up with 2 original designs sometime summer 2011... I am very anxious to see those.
> Rich


new designs < 300 getting started < general order kingstons being shipped

which means, i gotta buy a steinhart vintage red to survive until then..


----------



## Thieuster

Before I start the ordering procedure, a question. I sent Bill $300 (or was it $350 a while back?) When ordering, does the forementioned deposit appear on the screen? Or is it deducted? It looks like I have to pay 350 as a deposite again!

Oh well, perhaps it's wise to ask Winnie.

Menno


----------



## bob m

no I think if you already paid your 350 you are good and just need to wait for the next 150.00$ announcement. This post is to get more people to sign on with an initial deposit of $350-so if youve paid I would not per order another one


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## tmoris

Thieuster said:


> Before I start the ordering procedure, a question. I sent Bill $300 (or was it $350 a while back?) When ordering, does the forementioned deposit appear on the screen? Or is it deducted? It looks like I have to pay 350 as a deposite again!
> 
> Oh well, perhaps it's wise to ask Winnie.
> 
> Menno


im pretty sure this is for those who have not yet paid 350 for the pre order. if you did, then you are in the first 150ppl bunch and should do nothing right now. from what the page says, we will be contacted when bill has 150ppl on board, then we will pay 150usd more, the pre phase will close and production will commence.


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## sierra11b

I don't even have my Sea Fighter TypeIIA in hand yet and am excited by this project. What inspired me to buy the Sea Fighter was that my Ranger Instructor buddy currently owns one and I was throughly impressed when I saw him over the holidays. Being so new to finer time pieces I have no preference to the crystal used.

I do, however, know I am a sucker for numbers (3,6,9,12 or any combo) because I'm stupid (hence the TypeII A). :roll: I would also want the finest movement available considering I could make it worth my while during the wait period. I think it would also set this project apart from the PRS14. Am I wrong?

I have been gearing toward a PO or NOS 300 as a daily wearer outside of work but am now on the fence. What appeals to me the most aside from Bill's/Mkii reputation and quality is the fact I would be supporting a USA maker and opportunity to be involved in the final product. Would be very cool to know that I gave my input on what's on my wrist.

On the other hand I can probably find the Omega I want, albeit at a premium, if I play my cards right and sooner than when this project will be complete. I still haven't made the deposit yet for this reason... I simply have no experience in the these projects. *Anyone care to talk me off the ledge of waiting for the right Omega to come along? *


----------



## Thieuster

Bob and you are right: I contacted Winnie and she has confirmed what you guys were suggesting already. Thanks!

Menno


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## bob m

good thing its a ways off, I got plenty of time to squirrel away $945.00 bucks


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## bakuma

That's a good question. Have you owned a PRS-14? I have, and the quality was pretty high, maybe better than my Stingray (or maybe equal, and I just liked the way Fricker finished their cases better). It is worth thinking about, given the $900 price difference, the relatively high quality of the Precista, and the fact that its resale values have held pretty strong. My 14 is long gone, but my other Precista Fricker w/ 2824-2 remains one of my two most accurate mechanical watches, running a hair better than +1/day.

Bill will have to pull out all the stops on the 300.



sierra11b said:


> I think it would also set this project apart from the PRS14. Am I wrong?


----------



## kmangino47

bob m said:


> good thing its a ways off, I got plenty of time to squirrel away $945.00 bucks


Yep I 2 hav to start saving the 945, my wife has no idea about this one i figure I hav time B4 I gotta hav that talk LOL. Just pulled the trigger on a white faced_ "Vantage Homage"_ Rolex AirKing. I wish bill made MKII with White Face it would hav saved me manny thousands!


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## sierra11b

bakuma said:


> That's a good question. Have you owned a PRS-14? I have, and the quality was pretty high, maybe better than my Stingray (or maybe equal, and I just liked the way Fricker finished their cases better). It is worth thinking about, given the $900 price difference, the relatively high quality of the Precista, and the fact that its resale values have held pretty strong. My 14 is long gone, but my other Precista Fricker w/ 2824-2 remains one of my two most accurate mechanical watches, running a hair better than +1/day.
> 
> Bill will have to pull out all the stops on the 300.


No I have not which is why I am so torn between options. I can simply save and pull the trigger on a NOS when it comes around, buy the PRS14 which has gotten praise, or jump on the project 300 bandwagon. I want to jump on the wagon but it had better be worth it over the PRS14.


----------



## sierra11b

bakuma said:


> Bill will have to pull out all the stops on the 300.


I would certainly hope so. I just love the warmth of the PRS14 and the non-date really ties it all together for that classic feel imho.

I have convinced myself I want in on this, too. Should be plenty of time to pick-up a PRS14 in the meantime.  Bill, you will have my deposit tomorrow afternoon.|>


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## bakuma

If by NOS you mean a Watchco model keep in mind that the acrylic bezel has not proven to be the toughest for water use. I think it's a great idea to pick up a PRS-14 now and do a comparison to the MKII when it's out.



sierra11b said:


> No I have not which is why I am so torn between options. I can simply save and pull the trigger on a NOS when it comes around, buy the PRS14 which has gotten praise, or jump on the project 300 bandwagon. I want to jump on the wagon but it had better be worth it over the PRS14.


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## sierra11b

Deposit sent! |>


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## ASRSPR

I own a PRS-14 and have a Project 300 on pre-order. I think that the common complaints about the PRS-14 are its height and the weak bezel lume. These aren't my main issues with the watch though. The watch is a bit taller, but that may not be the real issue (more on this later) and the bezel lume is only marginally worse than, say, the Paradive's. My main concerns with the watch are the dial and the crystal.

1. The flow Precista and "300 meters" dial script isn't a good match to a military nature of the watch. I don't mean that we should have everything in stencil letters, but something less dressy and more legible and straight would go a long way. I know that it's their wordmark, but even so. The text is also too small. I know what everyone thinks about milwatches and verbose text and I'm a big fan of the Paradive's clean dial, but it's necessary here. The markers are of moderate size and the hands are actually rather diminutive. Text is needed to fill out the space. We don't need to stuff in "Superlative chronometer certified high pressure Geneva Switzerland Europe Earth Mk II Bill Yao Project 300" on the dial, but let's look at the original. It has the Omega insignia, the Omega wordmark, and the word "Automatic" at the top and "Seamaster 300" in big letters below, extending past the 7 and 5 o'clock markers. In comparison, the PRS-14 has only a similarly sized Precista wordmark on the PRS-14 and a very small "300 meters". It looks empty, like a room with one chair.

The PRS-14 should have either used a similar text layout as the original or else had bigger hands (like the prototype plongeur hands model). The MkII 300 should take this lesson to heart. The Kingston dial strikes an excellent balance in this area, so I'm not too worried. For my PRS-14, I'll be experimenting with a set of silver Plongeur hands shortly.









(Photo: Timefactors)

2. The PRS-14 has a domed acrylic crystal. But it's not a high domed crystal; the edges are flush with the bezel insert and as a whole doesn't jut dramatically above it. This changes the profile of the watch significantly, I feel, and is a major contributor to making the watch case seem disproportionately tall. With a high dome crystal, the case would have a more traditional balance. Since Bill has indicated that he's to use a high dome sapphire crystal, I don't think that this is an issue for the Project 300.

Additional concerns: I'm of two minds about the PRS-14's mostly polished case and polished hands. On the one hand, it's authentic and vintage-y. But on the other hand, it doesn't fit the spirit of a modern milwatch, in my opinion. I would probably prefer a brushed or even bead-blasted case option instead (or else a brushed/polished combo, like on a modern Seamaster) and *maybe* white hands.


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## Thieuster

Brilliant piece of work! Very detailled. Thank your for sharing your thoughts.

Menno


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## sierra11b

ASRSPR said:


> Additional concerns: I'm of two minds about the PRS-14's mostly polished case and polished hands. On the one hand, it's authentic and vintage-y. But on the other hand, it doesn't fit the spirit of a modern milwatch, in my opinion.


I put my deposit down with the intentions it would be polished and as close to the real thing as possible in that what it should pay homage to the real thing.

If there was an option for bead blasted or brushed I would be okay but not offering polished will prompt me to ask for a refund. I do like your suggestions on the shorter case height, though, especially in wearing a NATO. Seeing how I do not yet own a PRS14, it's nice to know what could have been better in the design.


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## ASRSPR

sierra11b said:


> I put my deposit down with the intentions it would be polished and as close to the real thing as possible. If there was an option for bead blasted or brushed I would be okay but not offering polished will prompt me to ask for a refund. I do like your suggestions on the shorter case height, though, especially in wearing a NATO.


I don't think there's much of a danger of that, given the finish options for the Seafighter and Stingray.


----------



## bakuma

*Some good points.....*

But not about the font. The script "_Precista_" was retained as original from the actual mil-spec watches. It's as authentic as any mil-watch script, and actually went into service on thousands of soldiers' wrists, incl. British spec. forces, so I'm not sure how you can say it "isn't a good match to a military nature of the watch" when it is, _by definition_, authentic.

See, for example (all from web):
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h460/sexy-wrist/IWC/Military033.jpg
http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h460/sexy-wrist/IWC/Military035.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/abraxas/No2/No3/No4/no 5/no 6/746213af5a.jpg
http://www.mailboxcentres.com/images/precista_prs_10.jpg

1. The flow Precista and "300 meters" dial script isn't a good match to a military nature of the watch. [/QUOTE]


----------



## sierra11b

*Re: Some good points.....*



bakuma said:


> But not about the font. The script "_Precista_" was retained as original from the actual mil-spec watches. It's as authentic as any mil-watch script, and actually went into service on thousands of soldiers' wrists, incl. British spec. forces, so I'm not sure how you can say it "isn't a good match to a military nature of the watch" when it is, _by definition_, authentic.
> 
> See, for example (all from web):
> http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h460/sexy-wrist/IWC/Military033.jpg
> http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h460/sexy-wrist/IWC/Military035.jpg
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/abraxas/No2/No3/No4/no 5/no 6/746213af5a.jpg
> http://www.mailboxcentres.com/images/precista_prs_10.jpg
> 
> 1. The flow Precista and "300 meters" dial script isn't a good match to a military nature of the watch.


I don't quite understand the term "milspec" even when applied to secret squirrel status. Short of being issued something with bells on it in hunter orange or "bulls-eye red", most of the stuff we were issued, at least when I was in, was just fine for use. If something wasn't serviceable we would add 100mph tape, steel wool, or krylon paint, even to the most expensive equipment and weapons. I can remember a couple severely worn down M24 sniper rifles with their stocks held together with tape and weighted down with the best paint home depot had to offer. Maybe that's why a lot of units that could use a quality timepiece aren't issued them anymore? Joe would have no problem taking a 30second steel wool job to an expensive watch if he thought the polish would compromise his position. :roll:

I guess my point is finish is superficial to me and that I would have no reservations going into theatre wearing a polished watch.


----------



## ASRSPR

*Re: Some good points.....*



bakuma said:


> The script "_Precista_" was retained as original from the actual mil-spec watches. It's as authentic as any mil-watch script, and actually went into service on thousands of soldiers' wrists, incl. British spec. forces, so I'm not sure how you can say it "isn't a good match to a military nature of the watch" when it is, _by definition_, authentic.


You are entirely correct; I have severely overreached with my point. It is folly to suggest that flowery Script typefaces have no place on any milwatch. Besides Precista, what of the Fifty Fathoms? Or even the less flowery, but still scripty Seamaster? I did not mean to impugn either the Precista name nor Eddie.

So, let me revise my error. I would still say that the Precista wordmark is out of character on the masthead of this particular watch. The 1960s OMEGA wordmark is an unrelentingly stern geometric Sans-Serif, with only hints of humanism in the tines of the E. I don't mean that these homages have to conform to every stylistic minutia of the original. Rather, I mean that this particular detail, seemingly innocuous, is surprisingly important to the character of the whole.

(Interestingly, I think that the images that you link to show a thicker and larger Precista wordmark? That less... formal version might look better on the PRS-14.)


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## sierra11b

*Re: Some good points.....*



ASRSPR said:


> So, let me revise my error. I would still say that the Precista wordmark is out of character on the masthead of this particular watch. The 1960s OMEGA wordmark is an unrelentingly stern geometric Sans-Serif, with only hints of humanism in the tines of the E. I don't mean that these homages have to conform to every stylistic minutia of the original. Rather, I mean that this particular detail, seemingly innocuous, is surprisingly important to the character of the whole.
> 
> (Interestingly, I think that the images that you link to show a thicker and larger Precista wordmark? That less... formal version might look better on the PRS-14.)


I agree. And judging by Bill's past works I would imagine the Royal Navy with "MIIK" replacing the "Omega" with "Automatic" just below that. Then the "Circle Y" replacing the "T". The template for everything is already in the Royal Navy, unless the design is protected?

Forgive me for adding the "CCC" below the "Y" in this quick sketch... I just wanted to reference "300" in roman numeral. ;-)


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## MHe225

tmoris said:


> the price jumped , i guess that means i wasnt the only one who accepted higher quality with higher prices in the survey..


Not a small jump, I may add. The initial offering at $1,095 was already quite a step up from the Kingston pre-order pricing ($700), especially considering the substantially less generous spares-kit. With the current price hike, the price of the Project 300 watch is double the price of a Kingston :think:

I am also surprised to see that the price increase for the pre-order watches is steeper than for the general orders:

PO: $1,095 -> $1,445 i.e. + $350 / 32%
GO: $1,395 -> $1,695 i.e. + $300 / 22%

By the way, I voted for higher quality at the same or lower price :-d

So far, I still like the direction this project is heading to (okay, not the price) and I see no reason to cancel my order / ask for my deposit back.

RonB


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## bakuma

*Mil-spec*

In the context I'm using it, "mil-spec" refers to a design approved by a nation's military, and originating from a military RFP. So not off the shelf, or offered by a company on spec, but a design created to address a particular request by a military, and meeting its specifications. An example would be the watches Hamilton made to meet US mil-spec MIL-W-46374B. Here's a reference to a few: MIL-W-46374 MILITARY FIELD WATCHES*
*


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## tmoris

*Re: Mil-spec*

i really like the small dial triangle as well with number 12 showing. has the dial been finalised yet?


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## Dragoon

I m gonna sit this one out but wish all you 300 fans the best adventure ever!

I am sure Bill will make a piece that is truly outstanding.

I think I may wait for a new Stingray or other piece to satisfy additional MK II urges.

enjoy the trip, all!


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## Izzy

Same here, as I am still waiting for my Kingston. Therefore I would rather more time and effort spent on getting those watches checked and shipped to their patient owners....


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## sunster

Would love to be on board on this project as well but the Kingston experience has put paid to that....good luck to you guys who clearly have more patience than I have


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## Kent108

I'm not sure Project 300 takes away from Kingston-related efforts. All Bill did for P300 is re-activate a link or put up a web page; AFAIK, he hasn't even done any serious design work on it ...



Izzy said:


> Same here, as I am still waiting for my Kingston. Therefore I would rather more time and effort spent on getting those watches checked and shipped to their patient owners....


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## Izzy

Kent108 said:


> I'm not sure Project 300 takes away from Kingston-related efforts. All Bill did for P300 is re-activate a link or put up a web page; AFAIK, he hasn't even done any serious design work on it ...


I hope you are right...


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## LAPD

Hi Everyone,

I am on board this project, I like it. I know its going to take a while but I'm sure it will turn out nice, I'm seriously hoping that we get the SEL (solid end link) bracelet as this would set it aside from Cheaper Seikos and Citizens, with out that cheap ratling sound. 
I also know that everyone that gets one of these will at some stage want to see it on a mesh bracelet. That is why I am suggesting Bill to also offer shipping it with an optional mesh bracelet a nice MKII approved and signed piece maybe like these, maybe on the order page have an extra line saying: Tick this box if you would like the Mesh bracelet for an extra $XX

What do you guys think?







or






or






or


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## sierra11b

sunster said:


> Would love to be on board on this project as well but the Kingston experience has put paid to that....good luck to you guys who clearly have more patience than I have


As someone that collects custom knives I am very used to waiting. I once waited 6 years for my name to come up on a knife maker's list, so long that I forgot I had put my name down or what I originally wanted from the maker! Snags and delays happen but are worth it to insure the quality of the pieces and the reputation of the maker. Heck, I even had a knife maker that walk away with my hefty deposit after neglecting to tell me and everyone on his wait list his wife took him to the cleaners after their divorce. :roll:


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## ASRSPR

LAPD said:


> Tick this box if you would like the Mesh bracelet for an extra $XX


Sure, for two digits! The Staib mesh in the first picture usually goes for a little bit more than that, and the Omega meshes alot more.



sierra11b said:


> As someone that collects custom knives I am very used to waiting. I once waited 6 years for my name to come up on a knife maker's list, so long that I forgot I had put my name down or what I originally wanted from the maker! Snags and delays happen but are worth it to insure the quality of the pieces and the reputation of the maker. Heck, I even had a knife maker that walk away with my hefty deposit after neglecting to tell me and everyone on his wait list his wife took him to the cleaners after their divorce. :roll:


Well, you waited six years for a real custom knife, right? I don't know how long, say, the wait is if you get VC's custom department or Project X to build you something unique, but I think that a watch like the Kingston or Project 300 is maybe more comparable to, say, a limited sprint of a Spyderco? The wait for those is alot shorter. On the other hand. of course, Bill is just one man, so maybe the comparison isn't really so far off.


----------



## cholack

Just put in my deposit. Ah, the wait is long but will be worth it.

In the meantime, here's a pictorial history of the Seamaster 300 as seen on the legendary Chuck Maddox's website: 
A History of the Omega Seamaster 3oo

Cheers


----------



## sierra11b

ASRSPR said:


> Well, you waited six years for a real custom knife, right? I don't know how long, say, the wait is if you get VC's custom department or Project X to build you something unique, but I think that a watch like the Kingston or Project 300 is maybe more comparable to, say, a limited sprint of a Spyderco? The wait for those is alot shorter. On the other hand. of course, Bill is just one man, so maybe the comparison isn't really so far off.


It's irrelevant based on how bad you want what it is you're waiting to finally arrive. And when that day comes it's like Christmas! But yeah, that was my point in that one man is the QC.


----------



## wats911

Would love to have an option for a mesh! That would be a great look for this watch.


----------



## cholack

Anyone have an idea of how many more pre-orders we need to get this project going?


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## sierra11b

According to the deposit link the quota is 150 to get the ball rolling to phase II.


----------



## cholack

sierra11b said:


> According to the deposit link the quota is 150 to get the ball rolling to phase II.


To clarify, I had wanted to know how many have been pre-ordered to date.


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## tmoris

cholack said:


> To clarify, I had wanted to know how many have been pre-ordered to date.


that has not been reveled yet. u might demand that from winnie and let us know the number out of sheer curiosity, if she tells you..


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## LAPD

Hi Everyone,

I posted this a bit further up the chain but this thread is getting a little confusing and thought I should put it at the last post.

I am on board this project, I like it. I know its going to take a while but I'm sure it will turn out nice, I'm seriously hoping that we get the SEL (solid end link) bracelet as this would set it aside from Cheaper Seikos and Citizens, with out that cheap ratling sound. 
I also know that everyone that gets one of these will at some stage want to see it on a mesh bracelet. That is why I am suggesting Bill to also offer shipping it with an optional mesh bracelet a nice MKII approved and signed piece maybe like these, maybe on the order page have an extra line saying: Tick this box if you would like the Mesh bracelet for an extra $XX

What do you guys think?

View attachment 373152
or
View attachment 373171
or
View attachment 373173
or
View attachment 373174


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## Thieuster

I think I'm an 'early adapter': I sent Bill the intial amount shortly after the first announcement. And knowing that Bill delivers great quality watches (I own 5 different MKIIs, including the TR), I can safely say that I'm a true MKII fan.
Now, after Bill has opened the pre orde page, I'm getting doubts. Let me explain why: the price of the watch is $ 1445 / 1080 Euros / 910 GBP. Sending a watch from the US to Europe and paying VAT will add about 20% to that price: 1296 euros or 1092 GBP. Giiven the fact that Chronomaster in the UK sells a Watchco Omega for 1445 GPB, things are getting difficult: a price difference of 353 GBP gives me a watch built with genuine Omega parts, even recognised by the Boys in Bienne as an Omega. Not a hommage. (And after some Google search, I found a mint & boxed on one TZ-UK for 1300 GBP! - sold on that forum last October).

I really would like your input and or ideas about this matter!

Menno


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## tmoris

Thieuster said:


> I think I'm an 'early adapter': I sent Bill the intial amount shortly after the first announcement. And knowing that Bill delivers great quality watches (I own 5 different MKIIs, including the TR), I can safely say that I'm a true MKII fan.
> Now, after Bill has opened the pre orde page, I'm getting doubts. Let me explain why: the price of the watch is $ 1445 / 1080 Euros / 910 GBP. Sending a watch from the US to Europe and paying VAT will add about 20% to that price: 1296 euros or 1092 GBP. Giiven the fact that Chronomaster in the UK sells a Watchco Omega for 1445 GPB, things are getting difficult: a price difference of 353 GBP gives me a watch built with genuine Omega parts, even recognised by the Boys in Bienne as an Omega. Not a hommage. (And after some Google search, I found a mint & boxed on one TZ-UK for 1300 GBP! - sold on that forum last October).
> 
> I really would like your input and or ideas about this matter!
> 
> Menno


wow. i thought these go for more. that certainly puts it in a different perspective for me as well, being a european that is.. would you mind posting that thread you found this information in? I would like to take a look at what a vintage 300 in mint condition looks like.. if this is the case it really does change the picture ..


----------



## Thieuster

Two links to underline my previous posting:

Omega Vintage Second watch from the top
TZ-UK • View topic - FS: Omega SM300 'modern' vintage - OHPF The October ad on TZ_UK.

Don't forget that we tend to look at the price Watchco has on their website. A lot of buyers tend to walk away from Watchco's product, because of the fact that it's not a 'real' Omega... thus resulting in a fairly low price for pre owned watches. As said: Watchco's are built with 100% Omega parts and as said: recognised by Omega in Bienne.

Menno


----------



## tmoris

Thieuster said:


> Two links to underline my previous posting:
> 
> Omega Vintage Second watch from the top
> TZ-UK • View topic - FS: Omega SM300 'modern' vintage - OHPF The October ad on TZ_UK.
> 
> Don't forget that we tend to look at the price Watchco has on their website. A lot of buyers tend to walk away from Watchco's product, because of the fact that it's not a 'real' Omega... thus resulting in a fairly low price for pre owned watches. As said: Watchco's are built with 100% Omega parts and as said: recognised by Omega in Bienne.
> 
> Menno


please excuse my newbiness, but could you clarify the meaning of:
- " buyers tend to walk away from Watchco's product, because of the fact that it's *not a 'real' Omega"*
- " recognised by Omega in Bienne."


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## Thieuster

*Not a real Omega* should be read as: not a real *vintage* Omega since they are built even today and not a long time ago. As an example: watchco seamaster 300 and this: Watchco NOS Omega Seamaster 300′s: Authentic? - I Already Have a Watch. with a really nice thought written in the last comment.

*Recognised by Omega:* take a look at this thread on WUS. Pay attention to posting #4 and #5 https://www.watchuseek.com/f20/ever-sent-watchco-seamaster-300-nos-omega-414467.html

Menno

What do you think: should I open a new thread about this subject?

M.


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## Pete26

Oops realised how old this thread is


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## Jaimie

For me I would like to have MKIIs take on the watch as I think that it will be unique. If all I wanted we a Seamaster 300 then I think that the Watchco version is as close as you are going to get and I imagine they will run out of NOS parts at some point and then that option will be off the table.


----------



## sunster

No brainer Menno....a real omega seamaster 300 with all original parts versus a homage to the same watch .....I'd get the original. The fact that its actually not vintage is actually a plus in my eyes as then I could wear it just as if it were a new watch and not be worried about breaking some old used parts

Take another slant. If Rolex made available new original parts for the 6538 and you had it put together professionally....would you still consider the kingston hypothetically if they were both similar in price?


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## Thieuster

> Take another slant. If Rolex made available new original parts for the 6538 and you had it put together professionally....would you still consider the kingston hypothetically if they were both similar in price?


Great question. Let me try to answer it with an example. I'm heavily involved in restoring classic cars. My avatar's Triumph was built in 1959 by Standard Triumph. Over the years, I've rebuilt my car using original Triumph parts and upgraded parts (better brakes, better rust protection etc). And yes, it's still a Triumph! At a price, I can tell you. Buying a replica or kit car with the TR3A's shape at the same price as my rebuilt TR is an easy choice I think... the real deal, off course.

About a year ago, things got started and when I remember correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong!) the initial price - idea was $ 1095.
I lifted this from Timezone:



> Bill Yao has updated us on his Project 300 (based on the iconic Omega Seamaster 300)/ It will be a limited edition project in stainless steel (the titanium option would have been prohibitively expensive).
> 
> The plank owner package is not as generous as it was for the Kingston project because of the higher quality of the case that we will be used for this watch.
> 
> The project could theoretically be done less expensively but it would mean using untested suppliers. For a customer sponsored project he thought it best to use tried and tested suppliers even though it would mean a higher cost. Fortunately the higher cost will also result in a higher quality case so the trade-off is balanced out by what should be a superior finished product.
> 
> He has decided that it will be okay to produce a watch that is very similar to the original, while choosing to make subtle changes to the design to differentiate it from the original.
> 
> Specifications are: Case diameter of 42mm x 14mm (all estimates); 200 to 300 meters water resistance. A double domed sapphire crystal with AR coating on the interior surface only. Movement is the automatic ETA caliber 2836-2 or 2824-2 decorated with Geneva stripes. Other specs subject to change. MSRP starts at $1,095.
> 
> Thanks.


Back then, I already mentioned the relative little price difference between a Watchco and the Project 300 watch. Now, the price appears to have gone up with >30%, things look differently from here, on the other side of the ocean. (Duty, VAT etc).
Mind you, I'm not bashing Bill's work etc. I honestly believe that building watches has a price. And previous MKII watches were very great FVM! Too cheap in fact! Where else could one get a #1 out a serie of 10 watches for less than $1000!? And I think it's a good thing that Bill's building future watches to make a proper profit, but as said: price-wise this is getting close to the original.

Menno


----------



## MonroeA

I too opted in as soon as Bill made the announcement and like you I am beginning to wonder. The price is high enough that I could pick up an actual Omega and I think it's much better to have the real deal. No way we could get a Rolex for the price of the Kingston and initially it was Bills intention to price the 300 along the same lines. Now that it can't be done I spend a lot of time wondering if this deal makes sense. I know it will be a great watch and I'm sure it will be worth whatever Bill charges for it, but does it make sense when it so close in price to the actual Omega. Just a thought.


----------



## bakuma

*Dilemma*

For those of you who remember, the original email-solicited poll to those on the MKII mailing list included choices of the big-crown sub (which became the Kingston), the early Seamaster (either the CK2913 or 14755 - I don't remember which model Bill had in mind), and a third watch. At the time there was also a lot of input for a model like the "classic" '70s SM300 which Bill initially rejected. The availability of real vintage SM300s plus the Watchco re-builds with all Omega parts makes me think that, as a maker of homage watches (even if improved/updated homages), it might have been a better decision for Bill to remake a watch that is rare, expensive and relatively hard to find, as he did with the Kingston. A remake of the CK2913 might not have generated as much initial enthusiasm as the project 300, but given the lack of alternatives I think it would have been a successful undertaking. (And, for what it's worth, that's the option I voted for). I've come close to buying a Watchco SM300 a couple of times (all the way back to when they were $900...!), but the issues withe the bezel in salt water always turned me off as I knew I would want to dive and swim with it.

pic of the 2913 from Darren on the VRF:











Thieuster said:


> Given the fact that Chronomaster in the UK sells a Watchco Omega for 1445 GPB, things are getting difficult: a price difference of 353 GBP gives me a watch built with genuine Omega parts, even recognised by the Boys in Bienne as an Omega. Not a hommage.
> 
> Menno


----------



## MHe225

I'm struggling with the exact same issue, Menno. As I mentioned in post #155 in this thread, I'm not happy at all with the price hike and it definitely erodes the value proposition this watch presented. Compared to the Kingston, you get less (one watch and a substantially less generous spares kit) for more than double the price: $1,445 for the PO Project 300 versus $700 for the PO Kingston. 
And as you point out, the current pricing is getting awfully close to an original - I know, not all agree, but to me, the Watchco Omega is close enough to the original (but it should still be disclosed).

I can mention several examples from the (vintage) motorcycle scene, where replicas built with NOS parts fetch almost the same price as the originals. Check the current eBay auction of the 1972 MV Agusta 750S clone, already approaching $43K I wonder how many experts would have recognized this one as a clone / replica if the seller had not disclosed that information :think:

Ron

*PS* - this topic may indeed deserve its own thread and maybe the moderator(s) can help to merge the posts on this topic with that new thread?


----------



## Jaimie

MHe225 said:


> Compared to the Kingston, you get less (one watch and a substantially less generous spares kit) for more than double the price: $1,445 for the PO Project 300 versus $700 for the PO Kingston


I do not think that you can compare the price for a Kingston as based on the work effort it was a much lower price that it should have been and except for a long wait people are getting a great deal for the $700. I think that if MKII had to do the Kingston again the initial price would be higher for sure.

Having said that I do not disagree that if you want an Omega 300 then the Watchco is a great watch while they exist and are available as I said before they are as close as you can get from a new watch as the parts are NOS. I still prefer to go for the Project 300 and have input and see what MKII come up with.


----------



## ASRSPR

And of course, reviving discussion from 2 pages back, the renewed availability of the Precista PRS-14 and its relatively bargain price puts pressure on the Project 300 from below.

But as I understand it, the price hike from the original proposal are substantially due to the choices of sapphire high dome crystal and bezel inlay, a choice that was brought about by supplier and economic circumstances and at least in part due to customer demand. We would be remiss to deny the additional cost and (presumably higher market value) these parts add to the equation. Sapphire bezel inlays are fairly rare, as are sapphire high dome crystals and I think would add much to the uniqueness of the watch (and further distinguish it from Watchco reduxes).

Do I think that the value-for-money has diminished from when it was a $1095 with a double-dome sapphire or acrylic crystal and a (presumably) acrylic inlay? Probably? Do I think that it's a 30% difference? Not at all. I'm concerned, like the rest, but I'm still on board.


----------



## sierra11b

Got my PVS-14 today. What a fantastic watch! I was a bit concerned about the size in relation to my wrist (6.75") but it works well because the tops of my wrist are flat and I have a larger frame (6' 225lbs).

I already sent my deposit for 'Project 300' and am still happy about proceeding, especially if Bill can exceed the Presicta. It would be pretty hard to beat the looks of this watch because it looks damn sexy, but if his rendering does the style justice (which I expect it will) with better internals I'd be happy to see it all the way to the end.

_My hope is that people stay interested enough to see it through on paper and then make their decision to stay on board._ Considering Bill's background in finance, if the project doesn't make sense he can simply work toward the next LE that does (Pan Am?). I cannot speak on experience with custom watches, but as mentioned before with custom knives with much greater time windows exceeding 4+ years, this wouldn't be my first rodeo in dealing with custom goodies from a single maker. I'm willing wager that the delays and learning curves associated with the Kingston will help him produce other LEs with better results. Patience will prevail.

The idea of building an Omega has me very interested as well. I will more than likely test the waters in the Omega forum to see if building one is more feasible over the long term.


----------



## tmoris

Thieuster said:


> *Not a real Omega* should be read as: not a real *vintage* Omega since they are built even today and not a long time ago. As an example: watchco seamaster 300 and this: Watchco NOS Omega Seamaster 300′s: Authentic? - I Already Have a Watch. with a really nice thought written in the last comment.
> 
> *Recognised by Omega:* take a look at this thread on WUS. Pay attention to posting #4 and #5 https://www.watchuseek.com/f20/ever-sent-watchco-seamaster-300-nos-omega-414467.html


thanks for the links, very interesting.

regarding the pricing: on the watchco web these are sold for 3500 AUD (about the same as in USD) and the link you sent shows one on a leather strap rather than on a bracelet for 2375 USD while having different colours on indices and hands, which looks kind of odd.. the other link you provided from TZUK shows it for ~2100 USD, which looks much better to me than the previous one, but still a decent jump from mkii..


----------



## tmoris

what do you guys make of this sale of a 1969 Seamaster 300 ?


----------



## Thieuster

tmoris said:


> thanks for the links, very interesting.
> 
> regarding the pricing: on the watchco web these are sold for 3500 AUD (about the same as in USD) and the link you sent shows one on a leather strap rather than on a bracelet for 2375 USD while having different colours on indices and hands, which looks kind of odd.. the other link you provided from TZUK shows it for ~2100 USD, which looks much better to me than the previous one, but still a decent jump from mkii..


Fair point, but it's not a quantum leap from the MKII homage to the real one! Personally, I feel that there's not enough distance (money wise) between the Project and the Watchco watch. Sure enough, Bill has discussed certain features not to be found on the original Omega, but I think now is the time to reveal some of these features. This can convince people to get on board / stay on board.

Menno


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## roadkingrider

Just sent in my deposit. After thinking about this project for a while, it's going to be another _*WINNER *_for everyone who participates. After all is said and done _*(usually more is said than done)*_, I am very pleased to be a part of _*Project 300*_!!! Let's get the 150 pre-orders _*SOON.* Thanks!
_


----------



## Runitout

I've read here that the price of the Project 300 is approaching Watchco NOS SM300 prices.

When I click on the Watchco site, I get a price of $3500 for the NOS SM300, which is in another league altogether. Have I missed something here, because if that's the truth, these two watches aren't anywhere near in the same market.

I am more interested in MkII vs PRS-14 comparisons if that be the case.


----------



## sierra11b

Runitout said:


> I've read here that the price of the Project 300 is approaching Watchco NOS SM300 prices.
> 
> When I click on the Watchco site, I get a price of $3500 for the NOS SM300, which is in another league altogether. Have I missed something here, because if that's the truth, these two watches aren't anywhere near in the same market.
> 
> I am more interested in MkII vs PRS-14 comparisons if that be the case.


I have been wondering the same and just don't get it... On watchco's site they are listed for $3500AUS which might as well be $3500USD given the current exchange rate. Then I see one or two Watchco/Watchadoo SM300s on fleabay going for $1800-$2000. One NOS JUST sold with a buy it now of $1850. I probably would have pulled the trigger if I had the funds immediately available. I'm beginning to wonder if the prices posted on their site are negotiable but at the tune of $1650?!

I get the whole NOS thing and it does appeal to me, even when considering the 166.0324 cases from Omega with vintage movements. But the whole idea has become convoluted to the point where I am slowly losing interest in pursuing this model altogether. Maybe a different style Vintage Project/New Seamaster down the road?

As for the PRS14, I have been a very proud owner for 72hrs... running 2 seconds slow per day and is quite the looker. Eddie was a pleasure to deal with and shipped very fast. I have also sent my deposit for project 300 with the idea that it will be a fun journey regardless of what may be in store. The way I see it tons of watches seem to be a homages or reinterpretations of classic designs. I will undoubtedly view this watch as it's own entity when all is said and done and it will be much more exclusive to boot.

Get both! You'll have two great watches at the price of one Omega (assuming you get one for ~$2000 of course) and one to hold you over (PRS14) until the Mkii is complete. :-!


----------



## Thieuster

QED:
Omega Seamaster 300 no date - unworn condition - eBay (item 150543810220 end time Jan-17-11 19:36:35 PST)

Menno


----------



## tmoris

Thieuster said:


> QED:
> Omega Seamaster 300 no date - unworn condition - eBay (item 150543810220 end time Jan-17-11 19:36:35 PST)
> 
> Menno


i dont get it. just as sierra11b mentioned, it just doesnt make sense. how can they sell it for 3.5k when its been just auctioned for 1.6k on ebay. its not like they are in different in condition etc.. its the very same watch!


----------



## Thieuster

I don't get it eighter. Perhaps someone from the Omega part of WUS can help us out on this one. If it's a fake, things are all clear and you should expect to pay AU$3500 or something for a new Watchco watch. However, if this is a proper watch with proper Omega parts, I fail to see the relevance of the Project 300! But, perhaps I'm wrong. Please tell me that I am!!

Menno


----------



## ASRSPR

My understanding is that the parts are not uncommon. It's fairly easy to find virtually everything you need to build your own and for about the quoted price. Watchco's 3500AUD price is akin to buying a new Omega versus a secondary market one, I suppose.


----------



## sierra11b

tmoris said:


> i dont get it. just as sierra11b mentioned, it just doesnt make sense. how can they sell it for 3.5k when its been just auctioned for 1.6k on ebay. its not like they are in different in condition etc.. its the very same watch!


At least the one Thieuster posted was from a private seller, or at least I think it was? The recent ones I have seen were sold with a 'buy it now' price by WatchCo who is selling them for the inflated prices on their site.


----------



## Dragoon

I think a possible explanation for the price fluctuation for the WatchCo pieces that are being sold on the Bay are that WatchCo is trying to stimulate the market a bit. Sales are pretty flat in many retail/internet watch sites although I dont know if WatchCo is feeling the pinch?

One way to stimulate things and get the sharks feeding a little is to throw some "chum" in the water and let the feeding frenzy begin. Sometimes it gets folks looking and when they look and get in on a good deal....the whole thing gets their market moving a little better.

I doubt the $1650-$2000 price is going to be a permanent mark down considering they do sell them reguarly (I assume they do anyhow) for $3500.


----------



## tmoris

Dragoon said:


> I think a possible explanation for the price fluctuation for the WatchCo pieces that are being sold on the Bay are that WatchCo is trying to stimulate the market a bit. Sales are pretty flat in many retail/internet watch sites although I dont know if WatchCo is feeling the pinch?
> 
> One way to stimulate things and get the sharks feeding a little is to throw some "chum" in the water and let the feeding frenzy begin. Sometimes it gets folks looking and when they look and get in on a good deal....the whole thing gets their market moving a little better.
> 
> I doubt the $1650-$2000 price is going to be a permanent mark down considering they do sell them reguarly (I assume they do anyhow) for $3500.


well, apparently the interest stopped at 1600 bucks, which is the price it was sold for. now that i know that, i will certainly not even start thinking about the possibility of buying one for 3500 and will wait for another one on ebay (should i decide to quit project 300, which so far looks like a pretty likely option considering what just happened..)


----------



## tmoris

Thieuster said:


> I don't get it eighter. Perhaps someone from the Omega part of WUS can help us out on this one. If it's a fake, things are all clear and you should expect to pay AU$3500 or something for a new Watchco watch. However, if this is a proper watch with proper Omega parts, I fail to see the relevance of the Project 300! But, perhaps I'm wrong. Please tell me that I am!!
> 
> Menno


i took a look at the guy who sold that SM300 and he sold a couple more during the past. I will absolutely need someone with experience in the SM300 or vintage omegas in general to post a reply in this thread, or I cannot imagine not withdrawing from this project at the moment.. im really sad about that


----------



## Semuta

Are the Watchco SM300's available with the big triangle dial? I think all the pics I've seen have been the non-triangle dials. I like the idea of the Watchco, but I'm not too insistent that my watch has the Omega name on it, and from what I understand the watches aren't pressure tested. I don't know, I'm considering getting in on the 300 project . . .


----------



## 66Cooper

*Re: Dilemma*



bakuma said:


> For those of you who remember, the original email-solicited poll to those on the MKII mailing list included choices of the big-crown sub (which became the Kingston), the early Seamaster (either the CK2913 or 14755 - I don't remember which model Bill had in mind), and a third watch. At the time there was also a lot of input for a model like the "classic" '70s SM300 which Bill initially rejected. The availability of real vintage SM300s plus the Watchco re-builds with all Omega parts makes me think that, as a maker of homage watches (even if improved/updated homages), it might have been a better decision for Bill to remake a watch that is rare, expensive and relatively hard to find, as he did with the Kingston. A remake of the CK2913 might not have generated as much initial enthusiasm as the project 300, but given the lack of alternatives I think it would have been a successful undertaking. (And, for what it's worth, that's the option I voted for). I've come close to buying a Watchco SM300 a couple of times (all the way back to when they were $900...!), but the issues withe the bezel in salt water always turned me off as I knew I would want to dive and swim with it.
> 
> pic of the 2913 from Darren on the VRF:
> 
> View attachment 375056


My father in-law pulled this exact watch out of a box one day. "You are into watches, I have this one sitting in a box for years." Lovely watch and a very funny story how he got it.


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: Dilemma*

Now, Darren's watch is something else...

I'm sure Bill is following this thread with great interest. Given his background in finance, I'm sure he's more than capable to figure out what the chances of this project are. Things have changed over a year: prices of Watchco's are apparently going down, Bill has to increase the price of his watches to get a healthy profit out of this project. I'm not in his shoes, but I really would do the maths on this one again.

Not really an issue at the moment: but for argument's sake consider this: a lot of people have the intention of selling their Kingston. It safe to assume that the same amount of people are planning the same with the Project 300 watch. Now, as a potential buyer: what would you buy: a Watchco Omega or a pre owned MKII Project 300 Omega homage? And how will this affect the resale value of this MKII? We can safely say that all MKIIs produced over the years hold their value: 80 - 105% of the initial sales price. (And I don't want to think what my TR is worth!) I don't see this happen with the Project 300. And again, please tell me that I'm wrong!

And for what it's worth, I don't back out; the money stays where it is!

Menno


----------



## enkidu

*Re: Dilemma*

For what it's worth: I have a deposit down for a mkii300 and don't have any intention of backing out for several reasons:

Guaranteed Durability: Even if I found a SM300 in good/clean condition, it would cost additional money and time to get it water-proof and a daily wearer. Note that the watchco SM300's are explicitly NOT guaranteed to be water resistant.
Sapphire Crystal: I prefer the durability of a sapphire crystal.
Big Triangle Dial: True big triangle military SM300's are pretty hard to find with many (many) on the market being redials, franken-watches, or out-and-out fakes. If I could get a clean, usable original military no-date SM300 for anywhere near the price of Bill's 300, I would seriously consider dropping out; as it is, such a watch would go for many times more than Bill's 300. And I'd have to wade through heaven knows how many fakes to find it.
Sapphire Bezel: This was the ultimate selling point for me. I really like the idea of a classic design with improved materials and specs. Many others obviously like this idea when you look at the success the Omega AT series has had.
Additional reasons: the solid-link bracelet matched to the case (with spare for plank deposit users), ease of conversion to a destro watch, and finally Bill's attention to detail all make the project more than worthy of an investment of my time, money and attention.


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## AlejandrOmega

*Re: Dilemma*

I had a Watchco version. Great watch. I picked it up when the exchange rates were out of whack and only paid $1800 USD. NEVER SHOULD HAVE SOLD IT.

But, whatever. I'm in on this project because I love the Seamaster style and think that Bill will do a nice job. I'm not sure how much patience I have, and am hoping that the process will not take as long as the Kingston has. I'd like to think that the process will be improved upon for this project, and we may hopefully have soemthing going sooner than later.


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## sierra11b

*Re: Dilemma*



bakuma said:


> I've come close to buying a Watchco SM300 a couple of times (all the way back to when they were $900...!), but the issues withe the bezel in salt water always turned me off as I knew I would want to dive and swim with it.


Out of curiosity what was the issue with the issue with the bezel on the SM300?


----------



## Thieuster

*Re: Dilemma*



enkidu said:


> For what it's worth: I have a deposit down for a mkii300 and don't have any intention of backing out for several reasons:
> 
> 
> Guaranteed Durability: Even if I found a SM300 in good/clean condition, it would cost additional money and time to get it water-proof and a daily wearer. Note that the watchco SM300's are explicitly NOT guaranteed to be water resistant.
> Sapphire Crystal: I prefer the durability of a sapphire crystal.
> Big Triangle Dial: True big triangle military SM300's are pretty hard to find with many (many) on the market being redials, franken-watches, or out-and-out fakes. If I could get a clean, usable original military no-date SM300 for anywhere near the price of Bill's 300, I would seriously consider dropping out; as it is, such a watch would go for many times more than Bill's 300. And I'd have to wade through heaven knows how many fakes to find it.
> Sapphire Bezel: This was the ultimate selling point for me. I really like the idea of a classic design with improved materials and specs. Many others obviously like this idea when you look at the success the Omega AT series has had.
> Additional reasons: the solid-link bracelet matched to the case (with spare for plank deposit users), ease of conversion to a destro watch, and finally Bill's attention to detail all make the project more than worthy of an investment of my time, money and attention.


Now, this is a clear answer! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and knowledge!

Menno


----------



## tmoris

*Re: Dilemma*



enkidu said:


> For what it's worth: I have a deposit down for a mkii300 and don't have any intention of backing out for several reasons:
> 
> 
> Big Triangle Dial: True big triangle military SM300's are pretty hard to find with many (many) on the market being redials, franken-watches, or out-and-out fakes. If I could get a clean, usable original military no-date SM300 for anywhere near the price of Bill's 300, I would seriously consider dropping out; as it is, such a watch would go for many times more than Bill's 300. And I'd have to wade through heaven knows how many fakes to find it.
> Sapphire Bezel: This was the ultimate selling point for me. I really like the idea of a classic design with improved materials and specs. Many others obviously like this idea when you look at the success the Omega AT series has had.


thanks for a nice detailed answer!

1- what would be the price of a big triangle military SM300? never seen one. is that a huge difference from the small triangle ones?
2- i tried googling for "omega AT series" didnt really find anything. could you provide a bit more detail on this, please?


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## AlejandrOmega

*Re: Dilemma*



tmoris said:


> thanks for a nice detailed answer!
> 
> 1- what would be the price of a big triangle military SM300? never seen one. is that a huge difference from the small triangle ones?
> 2- i tried googling for "omega AT series" didnt really find anything. could you provide a bit more detail on this, please?


I believe that he is talking about the Omega Aqua-Terra series. I'm not sure I see such a close resemblance though. The Planet Oceans remind me a bit of the old 300, but I really don't like the Co-ax movement. My local guy refuses to work on them.


----------



## JCR

*Re: Dilemma*

Although not directly relevant this web page hallofshame is very interesting showing the variety of dials available if you want to see a big trangle.


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## enkidu

*Re: Dilemma*



tmoris said:


> thanks for a nice detailed answer
> 
> 1- what would be the price of a big triangle military SM300? never seen one. is that a huge difference from the small triangle ones?
> 2- i tried googling for "omega AT series" didnt really find anything. could you provide a bit more detail on this, please?


My pleasure! From what I've seen, they typically go for $3kUSD+. The few authentic ones I've seen have been in quite poor condition. And the vast majority of ones I see on the 'bay are fakes so I'm going off of the few authentic ones I've seen come up for sale.

Sorry about the confusion, by AT I meant the Seamaster Aqua Terra series from Omega. And I didn't mean to imply that they were styled similarly to a military SM300, just that retro-styled watches made with modern materials and movements were popular.


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## gt0279a

Curious about the price as well. $1695?

You can buy the original for_ less_


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## sierra11b

There's two more for sale by watchco for $1850USD currently on ebay, a date and non-date version. 

While the idea is still tempting for the original, I just got my first MKII Sea Fighter last night, have sent my deposit for the Project300 and do not plan to back out.


----------



## tmoris

sierra11b said:


> There's two more for sale by watchco for $1850USD currently on ebay, a date and non-date version.
> 
> While the idea is still tempting for the original, I just got my first MKII Sea Fighter last night, have sent my deposit for the Project300 and do not plan to back out.


could you post links please?

edit: wasnt that hard finding them myself , posting links
sm300 nodate
sm300 date


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## Semuta

Well, the Watchco watches do look good, but really you can't classify them as the "real thing". While built with newly produced Omega parts, with Luminova dials and hands, they use a movement that never appeared in the SM300. What makes a watch authentic exactly? This combined with the lack of large triangle dial and pressure testing make me actually prefer the MKII offering.


----------



## rmasso

Semuta said:


> Well, the Watchco watches do look good, but really you can't classify them as the "real thing". While built with newly produced Omega parts, with Luminova dials and hands, they use a movement that never appeared in the SM300. What makes a watch authentic exactly? This combined with the lack of large triangle dial and pressure testing make me actually prefer the MKII offering.


 That's a good point. I didn't realize it had a different movement than the original, is that what you mean?


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## gt0279a

Watchco uses a vintage movement, Omega cal. 552 for the non-date, cal. 565 for the date, same as used in the original SM 300s.

True, it's not the circle T, big triangle dial, but that would be like trying to find a Rolex milsub at a reasonable price.

I've also seen plenty of original 60's era non-mil spec SM 300s with the triangle dial sell for less than $1700 as well.

Nothing wrong with the MKII proposed version, and I am sure the quality is good, but $1700 puts you at a price range where the value doesn't seem to be there imo.

The Kingston was a different story, as it would be near impossible to obtain the original Rolex. 

With the Precista PRS-14, watchcos and vintage Omega 300s, there just are just more options.


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## bakuma

Semuta said:


> What makes a watch authentic exactly?


What makes them authentic, exactly, is that Omega SA Bienne recognizes them as such.


----------



## sierra11b

gt0279a said:


> Nothing wrong with the MKII proposed version, and I am sure the quality is good, but $1700 puts you at a price range where the value doesn't seem to be there imo.


Right. First let me say Enkidu's criteria is what keeps me interested now for the most part. It would be nice to exceed the homage then in my opinion. I mean why not? Just to have something close to the original doesn't seem to cut the mustard in this case. My point is we've already established that the Kingston was intended to be a high quality watch at a fraction of the price of the Rolex, and that was the interest behind the project. So if the Original 300SM can be purchased by saving a little more, then shouldn't it be what Omega would make if Omega had a time machine? I'd be *ecstatic* to pay for that! Just my .02

Don't get me wrong... I still want the watch to look as close to the original as possible but would really be willing to pay for all the bells and whistles. I want this watch to make the idea of ever owning a NOS Omega disappear. I'm a crazy for thinking this? Would this turn-off a lot of potential deposits?


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## Semuta

I think I misread the info about the movements. Sorry about that. I guess the issue is that while Watchco does use the 552 and 565, these movements could come from any number of source watches, not necessarily SM300's. They could come from Geneves or something else. This is important to some people I guess: the history of the movement and the link the watch has to a true vintage watch. Interesting discussion here.

Vintage civilian SM300's for $1700? That is something to consider . . . but again you'd have to worry about daily wear and water resistance.


----------



## Semuta

Some quick searching does reveal Watchco's and vintage civilian models sold in the $1500-$2000 range, and that's just on WUS and the ebay auctions linked to in this thread. I know, I know, people have been saying that for a couple of pages, but I just checked it out for myself. 

So, would making compromises on the design of the MKII to lower costs be distasteful? It's funny, this is the watch that people voted for in the poll and then got really excited about . . . what's an acceptable price for it? What features are deal breakers? Personally I could do without the bracelets, I'd actually prefer a mesh bracelet or NATO anyway. I doubt that would lower the cost much.

I still really like the idea of the MKII. I'd like a vintage watch, but I'm afraid I'd be too cautious to really wear it out and about (I'm hard on watches). The MKII would have the cosmetic features I want and actually be a durable daily wearer. Plus, it would be a good companion to my Kingston.


----------



## ASRSPR

Semuta said:


> I think I misread the info about the movements. Sorry about that. I guess the issue is that while Watchco does use the 552 and 565, these movements could come from any number of source watches, not necessarily SM300's. They could come from Geneves or something else. This is important to some people I guess: the history of the movement and the link the watch has to a true vintage watch. Interesting discussion here.
> 
> Vintage civilian SM300's for $1700? That is something to consider . . . but again you'd have to worry about daily wear and water resistance.


Some date Watchco SM300s, including the one posted, use Cal. 562s, which were never used in vintage SM300s.


----------



## sierra11b

Semuta said:


> So, would making compromises on the design of the MKII to lower costs be distasteful? It's funny, this is the watch that people voted for in the poll and then got really excited about . . . what's an acceptable price for it? What features are deal breakers? Personally I could do without the bracelets, I'd actually prefer a mesh bracelet or NATO anyway. I doubt that would lower the cost much.


That is my point, too. There's no doubt in my mind that lowering the costs would not be distasteful but it's already been done and I happily own that watch (PRS14). I can see the appeal of lowering the costs to get more interest but am wondering if going all out is the answer here? If the homage has already been done at the lower price point and the NOS Omega is within grasp as Project300 stands, then why not raise the bar even further so only reason one would ever consider a NOS Omega 300SM would be only for the Omega name?

Okay, I think I've gotten my point across. Time to stop posting in this thread until Bill can finally update everyone. :-x


----------



## Jaimie

When I read this thread I get the sense that some people are shopping for milk and where can they get it the cheapest. I do not mean that as a slight just I have different view.
If all you wanted was an Omega SM300 then the NOS is as close as you are going to get. Yes it is a bit of a franken watch as they take what they can get to build it but it is a close as you are going to get and the parts are all Omega. Yes there are other watches in the market now that you can buy, PRS14 for example, if that is what you wanted. I'm sure that there might be others popping up in time also.

For me what I think is cool is that we get to have input into a watch that is being built with a clean slate. I want to own the MKII version of this watch as it will be a) new and I can wear it without worry, b) different than the current offerings and c) at a price that I can afford. That to me is what makes sense. I'm not shopping for a SM300 I'm making the choice that I want to own the MKII version of this watch.

The price of the other watches does not factor into my decision.


----------



## StanSuarez

What's the current count on the number of users who have plunked down their deposits?

Is this open to all users- particularly those in Asia(me)? 

Any rough time-frame on the project. My primary concern would be when the balance of purchase price would be due so I can set aside the cash for it beforehand.


----------



## wats911

I'm also curious as to a rough estimate of how many deposits have been sent in (i.e. how close we are to getting started). As far as I know, there are no limitations to who can sign up for the Project 300. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to get on board. Finally, from what we've heard, I'd say that Q2 2012 might be a reasonable estimate at this point. You've got plenty of time to save up.


----------



## G-Junkie

I put in my deposit a couple of days ago. If I don't find a Blackwater Type 1A until then, then this will be my first MKII. I jumped on board after seeing the Kingston, I was very impressed and can only hope Project 300 can exceed the accomplishments of the Kingston, especially for the price it's going at right now. Am I right that this is double of the Kingston?! ... Or did I get the Kingston's price wrong? I also like the initial plans for this watch. There's very few watches I can wear because of my wrist size. This one, as of now, has a more tolerable lug-to-lug length for me and I hope that won't change.

as for how many deposits there are... from what I know that once the number reaches 150, all preordering is closed. So I guess it hasn't reached that high yet. I could also assume that quite a few people dropped out because of the price hike. perhaps once all the kingstons are sorted out, this project can be top priority


----------



## JohnF

Hi -

I just went to Watchco (link here) to see what they had on offer: they are selling their Omega Seamaster 300s for $3500 Australian.

Given that the USD and the AUD are currently roughly at parity, that means that you're looking at $3500 USD, plus shipping and all other costs.

Just to put things in perspective: the price of $1500-$2500 is NOT what Watchco is actually, currently, offering the watches for. Movements involved are 562, 552 and 565.

Take a look at the link and you can see the prices as stated by Watchco.

JohnF


----------



## G-Junkie

JohnF said:


> Hi -
> 
> I just went to Watchco (link here) to see what they had on offer: they are selling their Omega Seamaster 300s for $3500 Australian.
> 
> Given that the USD and the AUD are currently roughly at parity, that means that you're looking at $3500 USD, plus shipping and all other costs.
> 
> Just to put things in perspective: the price of $1500-$2500 is NOT what Watchco is actually, currently, offering the watches for. Movements involved are 562, 552 and 565.
> 
> Take a look at the link and you can see the prices as stated by Watchco.
> 
> JohnF


 watchco also has an ebay account. they're selling the vintage seamasters for $1850 USD, so the other posters are correct that that NOS vintages are not far from this project, pricewise watchco-australia-numismatics2 items - Get great deals on Coins Paper Money, Jewelry Watches items on eBay.com!


----------



## tmoris

JohnF said:


> Hi -
> 
> I just went to Watchco (link here) to see what they had on offer: they are selling their Omega Seamaster 300s for $3500 Australian.
> 
> Given that the USD and the AUD are currently roughly at parity, that means that you're looking at $3500 USD, plus shipping and all other costs.
> 
> Just to put things in perspective: the price of $1500-$2500 is NOT what Watchco is actually, currently, offering the watches for. Movements involved are 562, 552 and 565.
> 
> Take a look at the link and you can see the prices as stated by Watchco.
> 
> JohnF


on the contrary. the price 1500-1900 USD IS what watcho is selling these watches for.

link1
link2
link3


----------



## JohnF

Hi -

I stand humbly corrected: I was relying on their own watch site, rather than eBay. Go figure... 

JohnF


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## Thieuster

... and there's one for sale at the Sales Part of this forum as we speak; $1350.00...
I don't want to post a link to a sales ad, but just search for Omega Vintage Seamaster

Menno


----------



## G-Junkie

Thieuster said:


> ... and there's one for sale at the Sales Part of this forum as we speak; $1350.00...
> I don't want to post a link to a sales ad, but just search for Omega Vintage Seamaster
> 
> Menno


 that's the usual price I see for the watchcos in that forum


----------



## ASRSPR

I'm leery of first-post-is-FS guys. And it's doesn't seem to be a cross-post from one of the other major forums.


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## G-Junkie

I finally took a peek at the post that's currently in the sales forum. I sense a big scam.


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## sierra11b

Another thing to consider is that the watchco Omegas are equipped with an Omega Mesh. I was considering a Staib for my PRS14 anyway with intentions of using it with the Project 300, too. All things considered, it would be well worth it if Bill offered some type of plank package for parts for the first 150. For me such a package would make the sapphire much more appealing in knowing I have a mint spare. Still no regrets here!


----------



## G-Junkie

sierra11b said:


> Another thing to consider is that the watchco Omegas are equipped with an Omega Mesh. I was considering a Staib for my PRS14 anyway with intentions of using it with the Project 300, too. All things considered, it would be well worth it if Bill offered some type of plank package for parts for the first 150. For me such a package would make the sapphire much more appealing in knowing I have a mint spare. Still no regrets here!


 agreed. a 300 plank package that's on par with the Kingston's plank package would be fantastic. I can do without a spare bracelet. and honestly and it seems like a free t-shirt kind of deal to me. I have plenty of time to decide whether or not to pull the plug.


----------



## Thieuster

Now, this is a eBay ad to watch carefully. This watch comes with the large T. And -afaik- this is the route Bill has in mind. Not a live link (again). Search for 'Omega Seamaster 300 Big Triangle' on eBay UK. Interesting to watch how this one ends.

Menno*
*


----------



## G-Junkie

I was looking at that one yesterday. i'm very curious about the how the final bid will be as well


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## enkidu

I don't see anything in the rules against this so here goes. The SM300 Big Triangle on eBay with bezel in mediocre condition, dial and hands in pretty good condition and case in good but slightly over-polished condition ended up going for around $2600. I think the chunk missing out of the bezel insert, the brazilian seller, and the touches of rust inside of the case probably lowered the value a bit. Still, as good a price as I've seen in a while for a big triangle Seamaster 300.


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## caesarmascetti

enkidu said:


> I don't see anything in the rules against this so here goes. The SM300 Big Triangle on eBay with bezel in mediocre condition, dial and hands in pretty good condition and case in good but slightly over-polished condition ended up going for around $2600. I think the chunk missing out of the bezel insert, the brazilian seller, and the touches of rust inside of the case probably lowered the value a bit. Still, as good a price as I've seen in a while for a big triangle Seamaster 300.


I think to an extenet the value of these vintage SM300's is being suppressed by the Watchco pieces. As long as the Watchco watches are available for $1,800 and are essentially new manufacture Omega SM300's there are many people that love the watch that can satisfy their itch with it as opposed to the true vintage ones. I mean look at it this way, lets say a large Rolex service center parts dist found all the parts necessary to assemble 10,000 Bond type Subs, and started offering them at $5,000 each all original Rolex parts just assembled by the distributor, the value of the vintage pieces would take a serious hit, because a % of the people hunting down the vintage would be happy paying $5,000 for the new assembly. I think till Watchco's supply runs out the vintage SM300's will appreciate but more slowly than if the Watchco was not available. I have this coming in this week by the way:


----------



## rmasso

caesarmascetti said:


> I think to an extenet the value of these vintage SM300's is being suppressed by the Watchco pieces. As long as the Watchco watches are available for $1,800 and are essentially new manufacture Omega SM300's there are many people that love the watch that can satisfy their itch with it as opposed to the true vintage ones. I mean look at it this way, lets say a large Rolex service center parts dist found all the parts necessary to assemble 10,000 Bond type Subs, and started offering them at $5,000 each all original Rolex parts just assembled by the distributor, the value of the vintage pieces would take a serious hit, because a % of the people hunting down the vintage would be happy paying $5,000 for the new assembly. I think till Watchco's supply runs out the vintage SM300's will appreciate but more slowly than if the Watchco was not available. I have this coming in this week by the way:


 Nice one, please post pictures when you get it in, am curious to see more.


----------



## caesarmascetti

will do it has an acrylic crystal and bezel insert, common wisdom is not to get to carried away with swimming or showering in it as water can find its way under the acrylic bezel insert causing the lume to react swell and damage the insert. I think as an everday watch to enjoy MKII will have some significant advantages over the Watchco SM300 and definately over the Vintage OMega (which does not have a screw down crown from my understanding, the Watchco and SM300s sent into Bienne for service are fitted with screw down crowns).


----------



## tmoris

Thieuster said:


> Now, this is a eBay ad to watch carefully. This watch comes with the large T. And -afaik- this is the route Bill has in mind. Not a live link (again). Search for 'Omega Seamaster 300 Big Triangle' on eBay UK. Interesting to watch how this one ends.
> 
> Menno*
> *


it really looks amazing. and it has aged tritium! what price do you assume it may reach?


----------



## Thieuster

18:48 GMT+1: the latest bid is 1200 GBP already. About the price of a Project 300 watch. With still 8 days to go...

Menno


----------



## enkidu

tmoris said:


> it really looks amazing. and it has aged tritium! what price do you assume it may reach?


Hmm, something about this watch doesn't ring completely true to me. Ooh, just found the same watch posted by the seller a couple of years ago. The caseback pictures seem to be of the same watch. Omega 300 RN Issue - How can I find out more? - The Military Watch Resource - Community Fora A really good price so far, nevertheless there was at least one buyer not happy with his ebay experience recently buying from the guy.

Yet another example why it is so difficult to find a decent Big Triangle SM300. And why I'm sticking with the MKII 300 project :-!


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## sierra11b

G-Junkie said:


> I can do without a spare bracelet. and honestly and it seems like a free t-shirt kind of deal to me. I have plenty of time to decide whether or not to pull the plug.


Ditto. I've never been much of a bracelet guy anyway. I do, however, have a staib mesh in the mail for my PRS14 but that is the only exception.


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## Balidaan

This seems like an awesome project. But what do you think about having a LRRP with a 369 dial.
I know its not the exact hommage but I think it would look really good!!


----------



## tmoris

a big triangle just finished its auction journey at 2850 gbp = ~ 4600 usd.. for a moment, i have also been the highest bidder. didnt take for long tho


----------



## bob m

wow...what a price 
reminds me of going to pay pal right now to put some more $ towards bills 300


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## caesarmascetti

bob m said:


> wow...what a price
> reminds me of going to pay pal right now to put some more $ towards bills 300


Hopefully this isn't bad form if so feel free to delete this thread, but I just got this in yesterday and wanted to post pics:



















sorry for the terrible photos, it's the Watchco model, running about +7/day, acrylic bezel insert and crystal, nice watch if I do say so myself.


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## Izzy

caesarmascetti said:


> Hopefully this isn't bad form if so feel free to delete this thread, but I just got this in yesterday and wanted to post pics:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry for the terrible photos, it's the Watchco model, running about +7/day, acrylic bezel insert and crystal, nice watch if I do say so myself.


Stonking watch |> !


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## artemis620

That is one nice watch you ....Wear it it in good health


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## enkidu

tmoris said:


> a big triangle just finished its auction journey at 2850 gbp = ~ 4600 usd.. for a moment, i have also been the highest bidder. didnt take for long tho


The price was on the high end of the prices I've seen, but I think it can be explained by the excellent overall condition of the watch head and the Royal Navy issue case back.


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## Izzy

I would be very wary of buying such a watch on the bay. If I wanted to buy a sought after military watch, I would aim to get as much paper work and provenance as back up and be willing to pay the price. There are so many fakes about and this one looked too good to be true. It may be a good thing you missed out on it.


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## caesarmascetti

enkidu said:


> The price was on the high end of the prices I've seen, but I think it can be explained by the excellent overall condition of the watch head and the Royal Navy issue case back.


Indeed a good bit of that price IMO can be traced to the Royal Navy provenance


----------



## cholack

I think we've strayed a little bit off course in discussing Project 300. Let's try to reel some more relevant talk as to how we can make this project better...

I think that Bill is trying to (re)create a product that is distinct from other offerings. In particular, Bill is strategically using upgraded materials and the big-triangle dial as a way to separate himself from Watchco and Precista. Now, I was wondering if Bill could further differentiate himself by using vintage-colored lume; seeing the new JLC Tribute to the Deep Sea Alarm (The Dive Watch Connection • View topic - JLC Tribute to Deep Sea Alarm) am really blown-away by the vintage "spirit" of the watch, no doubt in part to the lume.

Would people on pre-order be willing to change the BG W9 to a vintage color? Bill what do you think; is this a feasible option? For your consideration:


----------



## kmangino47

+1 vintage lume


----------



## coris

+1 for yellowed/vintage lume for me too. I absolutely love it.


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## enkidu

-1 for me. I'm not a fan of the yellow/vintage lume look. Not that there's anything wrong with liking that look, it just isn't my cuppa.


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## G-Junkie

I'll definitely demand a refund if Bill goes for the vintage gimmick


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## cholack

Well I'm sure (or hope) that Bill is flexible. Perhaps us plank-owners will have a choice of lume.


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## sierra11b

I could do without the vintage lume. While I understand it is an homage, I hope that this watch is what the SM300 never could have been back in the day. I hope that the watch is so good by past and present standards that vintage lume doesn't do it justice.


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## bob m

the whole idea of this watch is to improve upon the original. Sapphire instead of acrylic, screw down crown instead of pressure and for me, BG W9 lume instead of c1. I want good lume and I think the Kingston got it so I would expect the project 300 to get it-otherwise, Ill just pay another 300 bucks and grab a watchco


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## Kent108

+1

Due to the laws of time and physics, I was unable to buy an SM300 when they were being made. What I want now is as close to that as possible -- with upgraded specs.

Personally, I've never understood the appeal of buying pre-aged items, whether we're talking about a new watch, pair of jeans or leather jacket. The vintage or aged look is only cool if you can say, "Yeah, this watch/jacket/pair of jeans and I look the way we do because did a lot of cool things together and survived a lot of challenges."

Give me a watch that looks and is new. I'll do the aging myself, so to speak.



sierra11b said:


> I could do without the vintage lume. While I understand it is an homage, I hope that this watch is what the SM300 never could have been back in the day. I hope that the watch is so good by past and present standards that vintage lume doesn't do it justice.


----------



## cholack

Well, I'm glad this discussion has come up, and more so that it is such a polarizing topic - at least there is discussion about Project 300 and not how there is a Watcho SM300 on the bay for x amount. 

I'd like to say that I have suggested the vintage lume as an OPTION, not as a must. I think we all signed in on the project knowing in advance that Bill was intending to do the BG W9 lume. As before, my personal preference would be vintage lume, given that there will always be a WatchCo version in white lume (and there are no iterations of the SM300 in vintage lume).


----------



## cholack

And one last thing about the vintage colored lume. I think that there is an overall feeling that the vintage lume is less superior with regards to luminosity, and I am sure that there is a chart that will *reaffirm* that statement; however, what does that mean in practical terms? Probably not much IMHO, as well respected companies such as JLC and Bell&Ross use that color (eg. https://www.watchuseek.com/f267/vintage-br-123-126-heritage-387589.html) and their customers get along with it just fine.


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## wats911

For my $0.02, having the vintage option could be interesting, though I'd likely opt for the BG W9. Would have to see how the whole package came together. I wonder if this option could be provided without dramatically increasing the price of the Project 300 (Bill?).


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## enkidu

Kent108 said:


> +1 ...
> Personally, I've never understood the appeal of buying pre-aged items, whether we're talking about a new watch, pair of jeans or leather jacket. The vintage or aged look is only cool if you can say, "Yeah, this watch/jacket/pair of jeans and I look the way we do because did a lot of cool things together and survived a lot of challenges."
> 
> Give me a watch that looks and is new. I'll do the aging myself, so to speak.


+2. Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## cmschlatt

Just an idea for case back design... I saw that the royal navy issued SMP300s had a serial number stamped on the case back, sometimes over the hippocampus design (as pictured on the MKii Website for the project 300) and sometimes the design was ground down and the stamp was placed on a bare caseback. Maybe as an alternative to simply laser etching the plank owners production number out of 300, it could be stamped into the back much like the royal navy issued SMP300s?


----------



## MHe225

bob m said:


> the whole idea of this watch is to improve upon the original. Sapphire instead of acrylic, screw down crown instead of pressure and for me, BG W9 lume instead of c1. I want good lume and I think the Kingston got it so I would expect the project 300 to get it


Well said |>
With this in the back of my mind, I am a bit disappointed that Bill has decided (at least I think he has) to move from a fully CNC-milled case to a stamped case that is subsequently machined to specs. If memory serves me well, this was announced in the same message / post / e-mail that also had the drastic price increase in it. I surely hope that Bill will reconsider some of the options and also the content of the spares-kit for the Plank owners as the current offering is a bit lean (all compared to the Kingston).

Don't get me wrong, I'm still pretty jazzed about this project and hope there will be 150 deposits soon so this one can move forward.

RonB _(patiently waiting on Kingston #225/300 to keep my Quad10 company)_


----------



## G-Junkie

MHe225 said:


> Well said |>
> With this in the back of my mind, I am a bit disappointed that Bill has decided (at least I think he has) to move from a fully CNC-milled case to a stamped case that is subsequently machined to specs. If memory serves me well, this was announced in the same message / post / e-mail that also had the drastic price increase in it. I surely hope that Bill will reconsider some of the options and also the content of the spares-kit for the Plank owners as the current offering is a bit lean (all compared to the Kingston).
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm still pretty jazzed about this project and hope there will be 150 deposits soon so this one can move forward.
> 
> RonB _(patiently waiting on Kingston #225/300 to keep my Quad10 company)_


 I feel the same as you. adding on, I say forget the spare bracelet and the spare dial. Get rid of those, maybe perhaps that can free up some room for a fully CNC machined case. I've mentioned before that the included spares are no better than receiving free bumper stickers or a free t-shirt. It's nice to have, but utterly useless when they're compared to a spare case, crystal, and bezel. I mean really... just how important is it for me to have a spare dial? How am I even going to damage that dial? I'd have to purposely and idiotically be abusive to the watch first before I could even reach the dial. Something a little more substantial would be better. And the bracelet... that isn't big of a deal to me if I destroy that. At least I have the option of going nylon or another brand of bracelet that can fit.

Honestly, I feel I'd rather not have those gimmicks included with my package. This will come off as harsh, but I feel that it's rather juvenile. It's like giving a kid a balloon after a dental appointment. The little crumbsnatcher will be satisfied at first, but the balloon will eventually deflate and the novocaine will fade, then the kid will remember that his tooth was drilled for an hour.

I know I'm judging this project way too soon and way too harshly. I really do want this to be the best watch ever produced and be worth every red cent paid for it and more. Yao's watches had a reputation to be great value watches for the price. Pound for Pound value. The Manny Pacquiao of watches. It's really hard to see that anymore with the direction this project is heading in. Cost is up, but that doesn't mean the overall value will be. I enjoy more watching a Manny Pacquiao or a prime Roy Jones Jr. fight than I would watching a Klitschko or a Ruiz fight. The heavyweights are bigger and stronger, but that doesn't make them better overall boxers. In their weight class, yes, in the entire sport... no.


----------



## tmoris

G-Junkie said:


> I feel the same as you. adding on, I say forget the spare bracelet and the spare dial. Get rid of those, maybe perhaps that can free up some room for a fully CNC machined case. I've mentioned before that the included spares are no better than receiving free bumper stickers or a free t-shirt. It's nice to have, but utterly useless when they're compared to a spare case, crystal, and bezel.


+1

I am also very much in favor of removing these extra "useless" spare parts and improving the overall specs and/or decreasing the price..


----------



## Randy9999

G-Junkie said:


> I'll definitely demand a refund if Bill goes for the vintage gimmick


That's pretty heavy-handed given that ultimately we'll all have paid in advance and that it's unlikely that every one of us will get every single thing to go our way. This is a group project, and I fully expect that I won't have my way on some things. Even so, I won't "demand a refund" during every such circumstance.


----------



## cmschlatt

+1 CNC Machined Case, lose the spare bracelet and dial, i don't mind paying extra for the case either


----------



## sierra11b

+1 on CNC. As said many a time before by me, being that this project is so close to the cost of the NOS, it has to be better than the real thing imho. I think most depositors (myself included) want that this time and are willing to shell out the extra money. As for aging, let the purchasers take care of that department. 

My initial want would be the best movement possible, sapphire, 60 click bezel, 300m WR CNC Case. I would not be interested in another bracelet unless it was part of a plank package.


----------



## G-Junkie

Randy9999 said:


> That's pretty heavy-handed given that ultimately we'll all have paid in advance and that it's unlikely that every one of us will get every single thing to go our way. This is a group project, and I fully expect that I won't have my way on some things. Even so, I won't "demand a refund" during every such circumstance.


 You're absolutely right. It is a very bold statement and I stand by it. If I want pre-aged lume because I want my watch to look vintage, then don't bother stopping there, go ahead and put a couple dents in the case. Put some scratches in the crystal. Don't put in fresh gaskets, give me old and cracked gaskets, and bend the crown stem. Forget the bracelet, give me a torn up nylon strap. Hell... I should just go to a yard sale and buy a dead soldier's uniform, punch some holes into it, put a tear in a pant leg or sleeve and throw some dirt on it. That way, I can pretend that it's mine and pretend that I have served my four years and saw some intense battles during my term.

I'm not a frivolous buyer. I try to be a practical and I had put in a great deal of thought before putting in my reservation. I have read this entire thread from the first post and examined carefully how this project is progressing. I weighed and measured all the good and all the bad and I still see a lot of potential. Spare bracelet, spare dial.... those are silly gimmicks to take in the impulse buyer, and not only that, I think they hurt the overall quality of the watch. Orient USA uses that dumb scheme with their free t-shirt and mystery bag giveaways. And now someone has brought up vintage lume. Not for me. I wouldn't mind it being an option for someone else. But if I'm forced to have that lume, I'll be either getting a refund or flipping, whichever one I can do first.


----------



## ASRSPR

G-Junkie said:


> It's nice to have, but utterly useless when they're compared to a spare case, crystal, and bezel. I mean really... just how important is it for me to have a spare dial? How am I even going to damage that dial? I'd have to purposely and idiotically be abusive to the watch first before I could even reach the dial.


I think we're probably hoping for different dial styles - big triangle/12 or mil/civie style. For those of us who tinker, this would be a very nice bonus. Besides, while a spare bracelet is a bit more complex, dials are pretty cheap once you start printing them out. A spare case, bezel, or crystal would all be rather pricey, especially if we consider that we're talking about sapphire inlays and high-domed sapphire crystals now. It's a false dichotomy to suggest that we drop one in favor of the other when the cost unbalances are so clear.


----------



## Kent108

Maybe. But certainly it's his right to get a refund, up to a certain date in the development process.

We all have things are must-haves and deal-killers and others that are preferences.

Vintage lume wouldn't be a deal killer for me, though it is definitely not my preference. But if Bill says, "I've decided we won't be including a bracelet," I'm out.

G-junkie's priorities are different, and I see nothing wrong with that.



Randy9999 said:


> That's pretty heavy-handed given that ultimately we'll all have paid in advance and that it's unlikely that every one of us will get every single thing to go our way. This is a group project, and I fully expect that I won't have my way on some things. Even so, I won't "demand a refund" during every such circumstance.


----------



## cholack

I was wondering what details are actually open for discussion. As per the MKII website, the following are "details to be decided":
- additional dial options
- name of watch 
- layout of luminous markers for the bezel insert 
- case back design 

Now, I would assume that because all pre-order plank owners have agreed to the other confirmed specs + pre-ordered benefits (eg. spare dial and bracelet + travel case and tool kit), it would be hard for Bill to renege on any of these pre-decided promises... unless we unanimously agreed to make changes. 

It would be nice if Bill could comment on this as it becomes a moot point to discuss the possibility of CNC-milled vs. stamped case backs, options for lume color, elabore vs. chronometer grade movement, etc. if there is no way that Bill can change pre-existing committments. For example, I think its hoped by the many plank owners that forfeiting a spare bracelet may allow funding for a CNC milled caseback; however, we must consider those who signed on because of the extra spare bracelet. 

Bill, a well needed comment from you to guide further discussion would be instructional.


----------



## ASRSPR

I would think that the ability to pull out of a pre-order at any time without penalty until these details are finalized would give Bill a fair bit of leeway to reneg.


----------



## Dragoon

Certainly Bill has free rein to do whatever he would like with this project, but since he already has started taking pre orders, the usual approach is to keep the project as planned prior to the pre ordering phase, isnt it?

Unless he decides to add additional options to the original plan, I cant see why he would want to stir the pot and all the current pre order customers.



ASRSPR said:


> I would think that the ability to pull out of a pre-order at any time without penalty until these details are finalized would give Bill a fair bit of leeway to reneg.


----------



## MHe225

cholack said:


> I would assume that because all pre-order plank owners have agreed to the other confirmed specs + pre-ordered benefits (eg. spare dial and bracelet + travel case and tool kit), it would be hard for Bill to renege on any of these pre-decided promises... unless we unanimously agreed to make changes.


Glad you made this observation and statement and I'd think this goes both ways. Price (+32% for PO, +22% for GO) and specs (case no longer completely CNC machined) have been changed unilaterally by Mr. Yao. That is his good right. But since that is a significant change from what people up to that point had signed up for, I think they are entitled to a full refund (no penalty).

As I wrote before, the initial offering was more appealing than the current one, but the value proposition hasn't yet eroded to the point that I want out. I'm still pretty excited about the project and hope that some of the cool & special options and spares make it back in to the final design and offering.

RonB


----------



## G-Junkie

Dragoon said:


> Certainly Bill has free rein to do whatever he would like with this project, but since he already has started taking pre orders, the usual approach is to keep the project as planned prior to the pre ordering phase, isnt it?
> 
> Unless he decides to add additional options to the original plan, I cant see why he would want to stir the pot and all the current pre order customers.


 The project right now has already changed from the original plan some months ago, and the pre-order interest was already 50% filled before the changes happened. It was changed from a fully CNC machined head to combination CNC and stamped head. It also went from acrylic bezel inlay to sapphire inlay. The choice of high-domed sapphire over the double domed crystal, and the overall price increase from $1100 to nearly $1500.

the pot has already been stirred


----------



## Kent108

It's really a moot point, period. If I recall correctly, Bill has said previously that although he has discussed the project in vague terms with his suppliers, he has done NO design work and made no commitments with parts makers. I take this to mean that -- except for the vague guideline that it will closely resemble the SM300, everything is on the table but nothing has been considered.

Also, as Bill has said, pre-order deposits will remain refundable until the design has indeed been finalized and production actually begins. I assume he will give us a month or so of warning beforehand. To me, that means that the only issue right now that would make someone ask for a refund is the increased price point.



cholack said:


> I was wondering what details are actually open for discussion. As per the MKII website, the following are "details to be decided":
> - additional dial options
> - name of watch
> - layout of luminous markers for the bezel insert
> - case back design
> 
> Now, I would assume that because all pre-order plank owners have agreed to the other confirmed specs + pre-ordered benefits (eg. spare dial and bracelet + travel case and tool kit), it would be hard for Bill to renege on any of these pre-decided promises... unless we unanimously agreed to make changes.
> 
> It would be nice if Bill could comment on this as it becomes a moot point to discuss the possibility of CNC-milled vs. stamped case backs, options for lume color, elabore vs. chronometer grade movement, etc. if there is no way that Bill can change pre-existing committments. For example, I think its hoped by the many plank owners that forfeiting a spare bracelet may allow funding for a CNC milled caseback; however, we must consider those who signed on because of the extra spare bracelet.
> 
> Bill, a well needed comment from you to guide further discussion would be instructional.


----------



## Dragoon

Thanks!! Yeah, I guess it is wide open at this point when you put it that way. I guess this project plan phase could go on for a bit longer than I imagined.



G-Junkie said:


> The project right now has already changed from the original plan some months ago, and the pre-order interest was already 50% filled before the changes happened. It was changed from a fully CNC machined head to combination CNC and stamped head. It also went from acrylic bezel inlay to sapphire inlay. The choice of high-domed sapphire over the double domed crystal, and the overall price increase from $1100 to nearly $1500.
> 
> the pot has already been stirred


----------



## cmschlatt

Any idea on potential lug width, gotta start lining up an isofrane and mesh strap  you can keep the bracelet


----------



## Kent108

Wow, you're REALLY not a procrastinator, are you?? Even assuming Bill's delivery estimate (spring 2012) is accurate (and it's probably not), you have a year to go!

Hmm, this explains why I had to pull so many all nighters in college ... 



cmschlatt said:


> Any idea on potential lug width, gotta start lining up an isofrane and mesh strap  you can keep the bracelet


----------



## cmschlatt

Haha I'm expecting 2013, but u gotta spread out the excitement, keep it fresh lol


----------



## Semuta

Well, I've made my decision. I'm in. This will be my second MKII (after the Kingston), my second mechanical, and my wife said I can't buy another watch for five years . . . we'll see.


----------



## bob m

well you cant buy another watch for 5 years?.... you might be ok with the 300

I've no worry about the wait-thou having a custom lrp milsub that is showing astounding accuracy, which was 2 secs a day fast, and now its less than 1 sec a day when i wear it 24/7, surely dulls the impatience. I dont know what I will do in a couple of years, I'm only a one watch guy


----------



## sunster

Semuta said:


> Well, I've made my decision. I'm in. This will be my second MKII (after the Kingston), my second mechanical, and my wife said I can't buy another watch for five years . . . we'll see.


Just tell her this one might not arrive for 5 years anyway....so in between get yourself a LRRP or Vantage


----------



## Semuta

A LRRP would be nice, but I think I might have to actually take posession of one of these two watches before I could justify buying a third . . . justify it to her and myself.


----------



## song31

I like your thinking! I havent even preordered yet- spreading it out- but have ideas in my head for straps too! good job


----------



## ffernand

I pre-ordered several weeks ago and since we are getting close to the end of march, which is the end of the -validation of interest- period, I would greatly appreciate if someone can give an update on where we are with Project 300? Thanks!


----------



## tmoris

ffernand said:


> I pre-ordered several weeks ago and since we are getting close to the end of march, which is the end of the -validation of interest- period, I would greatly appreciate if someone can give an update on where we are with Project 300? Thanks!


your naivity is clear to me after looking at your posts count


----------



## bob m

for an update-Id say you will have your watch in hand within 3 years


----------



## MHe225

bob m said:


> for an update-Id say you will have your watch in hand within 3 years


You are a true optimist, Bob |>

Every day, I put $1 in a jar, my Project 300 piggy bank. I'm convinced that I will have the funds available before the watch is ready. But that doesn't matter at all. The only thing that I'm not looking forward to is a repeat of all the drama akin the Kingston's by the time people feel the watches should have landed in their hands ..... :think:

RonB


----------



## wats911

I'm sure one of you guys will do this, but I'd ask that someone reports back on any Project 300 discussion at the upcoming G2G. Sadly I can't make it, but am really curious to hear what Bill has to say. Thanks in advance!


----------



## The hekler

wats911 said:


> I'm sure one of you guys will do this, but I'd ask that someone reports back on any Project 300 discussion at the upcoming G2G. Sadly I can't make it, but am really curious to hear what Bill has to say. Thanks in advance!


+1
I just pre-ordered for the project 300, mainly because I missed my opportunity with the Kingston and have been kicking myself ever since. I can only hope this watch will turn out to have the same care and devotion put into it's construction. I don't mind the wait though I can't help but expect it to be significantly delayed, as long as the final product shows that all the extra time was well used. I am a huge fan of Bill's work I own a seafighter and am looking for the right stingray to come up for sale. If the 300 shows itself to be 2-3x the watch (as reflected in price) I'm sure to be blown away. One question, is there any reason that there is not a "sticky" devoted to project 300?


----------



## Yao

We will start a new thread when the design phase kicks-off "officially" that will be "sticky".

There have been enough changes to the original specification that it will be a good idea to start fresh.


----------



## dece33

Kent108 said:


> +1
> 
> Due to the laws of time and physics, I was unable to buy an SM300 when they were being made. What I want now is as close to that as possible -- with upgraded specs.
> 
> Personally, I've never understood the appeal of buying pre-aged items, whether we're talking about a new watch, pair of jeans or leather jacket. The vintage or aged look is only cool if you can say, "Yeah, this watch/jacket/pair of jeans and I look the way we do because did a lot of cool things together and survived a lot of challenges."
> 
> Give me a watch that looks and is new. I'll do the aging myself, so to speak.


Couldn't have said it better myself!


----------



## G-Junkie

Yao said:


> We will start a new thread when the design phase kicks-off "officially" that will be "sticky".
> 
> There have been enough changes to the original specification that it will be a good idea to start fresh.


 thanks for the notice! :-!


----------



## sunster

Happy 1 year birthday to this thread...when's the update?


----------



## j1crimmins

Just put my deposit in. Didn't realize it has been n the works this long but sure it will be worth it.


----------



## bmick325

I'm in.

Bill just posted in the blog that he will make an announcement on the 300 when he gets back from Switzerland.


----------



## WS65

I'm in. Put my deposit in last week.


----------



## wats911

Welcome aboard you 3. You picked a good time to throw your hat in the ring, as we should be getting an update on the 300 pretty soon. Looking forward to what Bill has to say!


----------



## Guest

Artonthewrist said:


> Here you go check this out.
> 
> 
> 
> best to you,
> Dan


 New here and trying to do some catch up. very impressed so far with the MKII watches.
Interested in the Project 300 and checked out the link....is this still active, in terms of putting in a preorder? I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


----------



## Yao

akira12 said:


> New here and trying to do some catch up. very impressed so far with the MKII watches.
> Interested in the Project 300 and checked out the link....is this still active, in terms of putting in a preorder? I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


Hi. I am currently in Switzerland. We will get to any un-answered e-mails when I get back to the office on Tuesday (Monday is Memorial Day).


----------



## Eksdad

I am very excited to be part of this project. Let's start the name brainstorm. I'll throw out a few. 
MKII Seafarer 300
MKII Mariner 300 
MKII Maritime 300
MKII Sea Explorer 300 
OK, I'm still thinking. What do you think? The right name is out there. Just under the surface.


----------



## tmoris

Eksdad said:


> I am very excited to be part of this project. Let's start the name brainstorm. I'll throw out a few.
> MKII Seafarer 300
> MKII Mariner 300
> MKII Maritime 300
> MKII Sea Explorer 300
> OK, I'm still thinking. What do you think? The right name is out there. Just under the surface.


MKII P300 sounds good enough to me


----------



## MHe225

tmoris said:


> MKII P300 sounds good enough to me


+1 - with that I mean that I agree with the suggestion; I'm not proposing MKII P301 :-d

Alternatively, MKII - 300 or MKII / 300 could work as well. No "fancy" names needed here.

RonB


----------



## Eksdad

I don't find the name "Seamaster 300" on the Omega to be an overly fancy name. I think it looks nice and helps to balance the face of the watch.


----------



## G-Junkie

How about the "Ministry" or something similar, since the dial is most likely going to be of the MOD style.


----------



## bmick325

"300" is my favorite so far, but here are a few ideas for alternative names.

1. "Clearance Diver" - RN divers responsible for mine clearance and unexploded ordnance. They were users of the original SM 300
2. "Suez" - Clearing the Suez canal of mines after the 1973 war was a large operation conducted by RN clearance divers and occurred during the time frame the SM300 was issued.

The RN Clearance Diving Branch


----------



## Kent108

I'll consider Suez, but I would rather not have the name of this watch evoke images of the 10-cent bin at Wal Mart ...



bmick325 said:


> "300" is my favorite so far, but here are a few ideas for alternative names.
> 
> 1. "Clearance Diver" - RN divers responsible for mine clearance and unexploded ordnance. They were users of the original SM 300
> 2. "Suez" - Clearing the Suez canal of mines after the 1973 war was a large operation conducted by RN clearance divers and occurred during the time frame the SM300 was issued.
> 
> The RN Clearance Diving Branch


----------



## JCR

Well keeping with the book/film theme started by the Kingston; 300 would be pretty suitable

"A new age has come, an age of freedom. And all will know that 300 Spartans gave their last breath to defend it"

"The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many, and before this battle was over, that even a god-king can bleed"


"Immortals. We put their name to the test"


----------



## Eksdad

I like the idea of a name that has some historical significance to the watch and the time period -- like bmick325 was suggesting. I agree that "Clearance Diver" is a cool name if you know the backstory but if you don't it does make you think of old ladies diving into the sale bin at Wal-Mart. I think bmick325 is going in the right direction.


----------



## eganwh

Another consideration in keeping with the Kingston would be a Royal Navy port city, possibly one associated with a unit that was issued the SM300 at some point. Any British naval historians on the forum that can suggest any?


----------



## wats911

Another option, if we want to continue with the Royal Navy angle, would be to pick a ship name.

See here for some ideas:

List of ship names of the Royal Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of this list, I'm partial to Dreadnought (first nuc. sub in the Royal Navy - obvious ties to a dive watch) or Ark Royal (flag ship against the Spanish Armada, ship responsible for killing the Bismarck during WWII, and currently a carrier).


----------



## ASRSPR

wats911 said:


> Another option, if we want to continue with the Royal Navy angle, would be to pick a ship name.
> 
> See here for some ideas:
> 
> List of ship names of the Royal Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Of this list, I'm partial to Dreadnought (first nuc. sub in the Royal Navy - obvious ties to a dive watch) or Ark Royal (flag ship against the Spanish Armada, ship responsible for killing the Bismarck during WWII, and currently a carrier).


Dreadnought is a modestly well-known and well-regarded dive watch from Precista (and perhaps others as well) made by Fricker. See: Dreadnought PRS2 Review - Watcharama

And Ark Royal did not sink the Bismark; its Swordfish biplanes crippled the Bismark's rudder, preventing its return to port and ensuring that it was later scuttled to prevent capture. Of course, before hitting the Bismark, Swordfishes from the same Ark Royal accidentally dropped torpedoes on HMS Sheffield, though without damage. So not exactly an entirely glorious role in that battle, I guess.


----------



## ljb187

eganwh said:


> Another consideration in keeping with the Kingston would be a Royal Navy port city, possibly one associated with a unit that was issued the SM300 at some point. Any British naval historians on the forum that can suggest any?


We think alike! I was going to post this at some point last night, but my grammar/spelling requires a bit of extra attention and I wanted to 2X check the accuracy of what I was saying so I never got around to it (still not 100% sure of the facts I've presented):

Quick name idea: The big crown Sub homage was called the Kingston. I'm not too familiar with the history of the original Seamaster 300, but if Royal Navy divers are among the most famous users of this watch and their school is located at HMNB Portsmouth, why not call it the Portsmouth? Granted the name doesn't have the same exotic cache as Kingston but in addition to being home to the Defense Diving School, Portsmouth is the oldest naval base in the Royal Navy (dating back to the 15th century). Besides, the clunky name might go with a watch that is more toolish looking than the elegant Submariner/Kingston.

Even if Portsmouth isn't quite right, it might make a nice tradition to start naming MKll's interpretations of historically significant watches after cities/ports/bases they're closely associated with.


----------



## ASRSPR

JCR said:


> Well keeping with the book/film theme started by the Kingston; 300 would be pretty suitable
> 
> "A new age has come, an age of freedom. And all will know that 300 Spartans gave their last breath to defend it"
> 
> "The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many, and before this battle was over, that even a god-king can bleed"
> 
> "Immortals. We put their name to the test"


So, yes - let's not tie the project to Miller's, ah, at least slightly racist Huntingtonesque distortion that has nothing to do with Omega, the Royal Navy, diving, or horology. It would be less obnoxious to tie it, through the number 300, to bowling.



eganwh said:


> Another consideration in keeping with the Kingston would be a Royal Navy port city, possibly one associated with a unit that was issued the SM300 at some point. Any British naval historians on the forum that can suggest any?


I had this idea a few months ago too. Unfortunately, I don't think I came up with any names with *Kingston*'s cachet:

The MoD Directorate of Standardization, which publishes Def Stans like _Def Stan_ 66-4 Part 1/Issue 2 (the SM300), is based in *Holborn *in Central *London*.

The Ministry of Defence itself is headquartered on *Whitehall *in the City of *Westminster *in *London*.

Beyond these, the connection to the watch becomes more tenuous. The three main Royal Navy bases in the United Kingdom are:

HMNB *Devonport* in Plymouth
HMNB *Clyde* pretty close to Glasgow
HMNB *Portsmouth* in Portsmouth


----------



## bmick325

ASRSPR said:


> So, yes - let's not tie the project to Miller's, ah, at least slightly racist Huntingtonesque distortion that has nothing to do with Omega, the Royal Navy, diving, or horology. It would be less obnoxious to tie it, through the number 300, to bowling.
> 
> I had this idea a few months ago too. Unfortunately, I don't think I came up with any names with *Kingston*'s cachet:
> 
> The MoD Directorate of Standardization, which publishes Def Stans like _Def Stan_ 66-4 (Part 1)/Issue 2 that is based on the SM300, is based in *Holborn *in Central *London*.
> 
> The Ministry of Defence itself is headquartered on *Whitehall *in the City of *Westminster *in *London*.
> 
> Beyond these, the connection to the watch becomes more tenuous. The three main Royal Navy bases in the United Kingdom are:
> 
> HMNB *Devonport* in Plymouth
> HMNB *Clyde* pretty close to Glasgow
> HMNB *Portsmouth* in Portsmouth


How about Gibraltar?

It is an RN port with a long history of diving operations and the name is synonymous with an impregnable fortress or stronghold.


----------



## eganwh

ljb187 said:


> ... but if Royal Navy divers are among the most famous users of this watch and their school is located at HMNB Portsmouth, why not call it the Portsmouth? Granted the name doesn't have the same exotic cache as Kingston but in addition to being home to the Defense Diving School, Portsmouth is the oldest naval base in the Royal Navy (dating back to the 15th century). Besides, the clunky name might go with a watch that is more toolish looking than the elegant Submariner/Kingston.


I agree, not a lot of sex appeal with Portsmouth, but a worthy namesake indeed. I suspect not many outside of diving/wis circles would get the reference. Looks like limited options for ports.

Gibraltar is a solid contender (pun intentional).

Next Category?


----------



## wats911

ASRSPR said:


> Dreadnought is a modestly well-known and well-regarded dive watch from Precista (and perhaps others as well) made by Fricker. See: Dreadnought PRS2 Review - Watcharama
> 
> And Ark Royal did not sink the Bismark; its Swordfish biplanes crippled the Bismark's rudder, preventing its return to port and ensuring that it was later scuttled to prevent capture. Of course, before hitting the Bismark, Swordfishes from the same Ark Royal accidentally dropped torpedoes on HMS Sheffield, though without damage. So not exactly an entirely glorious role in that battle, I guess.


Thanks for the heads up re: the dreadnought name. Too bad though, IMHO that would've been a good fit. Still kinda like Ark Royal, but am very much open to other ideas.

Regardless, I'm liking the MoD / British mil theme that seems to be emerging.


----------



## enkidu

I like the idea of port city, but Portsmouth, although very appropriate seems a bit pedestrian. There's an island in Portsmouth where Royal Navy divers train, *Horsea*, but that seems a bit too weird. i thought of historical submarines (Monitor and Merrimack), but they don't really fit with our time period. The first nuclear sub, USS Nautilus is right out as some company by the name of Patek Phillipe has a dinky "dive" watch with that name .

BUT, I did find a sub which was commissioned around the right time. The USS Narwhal, was commissioned in 1964, just around the year of the release of the Ref ST 165.024 (14775) Seamaster 300. On a similar tangent, the USN's Sturgeon class submarines were launched in that time frame, with many good names among them.

How about we add Narwhal to the mix?


----------



## caesarmascetti

Why re-invent the wheel how about MKII/300


----------



## ljb187

caesarmascetti said:


> Why re-invent the wheel how about MKII/300


You may be right on the money, but there's going to be a lot of time to kill so we may as well spend part of it throwing out crazy name ideas!

Two more in the "watch equals tool" vain:

1) Seafire (it's an underwater cutting torch used by clearance divers)
2) Typhoon (name of the two knives issued to ships and clearance divers as well as SBS members from 1960 - 1972 or roughly about the same time Royal Navy divers wore the 300)

I'm all named out for now, but am looking forward to what others come up with.


----------



## caesarmascetti

ljb187 said:


> You may be right on the money, but there's going to be a lot of time to kill so we may as well spend part of it throwing out crazy name ideas!
> 
> Two more in the "watch equals tool" vain:
> 
> 1) Seafire (it's an underwater cutting torch used by clearance divers)
> 2) Typhoon (name of the two knives issued to ships and clearance divers as well as SBS members from 1960 - 1972 or roughly about the same time Royal Navy divers wore the 300)
> 
> I'm all named out for now, but am looking forward to what others come up with.


Ok I'll play how about Scapa Flow following up on the Royal navy theme


----------



## eganwh

ljb187 said:


> 1) Seafire (it's an underwater cutting torch used by clearance divers)


Presenting the "Seafire 300". Has a nice vibe to it me thinks.


----------



## Eksdad

You are right, we have time. Might as well make it fun. This part that we play in the development of the watch (small as it may be) is what makes the watch special. 
I like Seafire or Seafire 300 the best so far.


----------



## Chromejob

ljb187 said:


> 1) Seafire (it's an underwater cutting torch used by clearance divers)


Typhoon is also a class of Soviet sub. :roll:


eganwh said:


> Presenting the "Seafire 300". Has a nice vibe to it me thinks.


|>
I think you've hit on something. It has that "Sea-" syllable, it would look good on the dial in the appropriate script, has a connection with RN clearance divers, and is a term that is specifically tied with professional divers. That's a lot of tick boxes that *Seafire 300* checks.


----------



## ljb187

Chromejob said:


> Typhoon is also a class of Soviet sub. :roll:That kills that one.
> 
> |>
> I think you've hit on something.*Seafire 300* checks.


I promise you this, there's a long way to go, but if somehow this watch does wind up being call Seafire, there is no way I'm not ordering one!*

*This could be interpreted as the most feeble attempt at a bribe in the history of bribes...


----------



## lipjin

I hope I still have time, only came across MKII a few months ago and am a total watch newbie - dropped the deposit on the 300 recently and also ordered a MILSUB. I've been looking for a quality watch for some time now and have considered plenty of brands but for some reason MK II always came up in conversations.


----------



## Eksdad

I like the name Seafire 300 but still thinking of names because it's fun. I'll throw out another one
SeaCommander 300
Commander is a rank in the Royal Navy.


----------



## Chromejob

Eksdad said:


> I like the name Seafire 300 but still thinking of names because it's fun. I'll throw out another one
> SeaCommander 300
> Commander is a rank in the Royal Navy.


Nice, but that's really, really close to "SeaMaster." And I presonally don't like CamelCaps, unless you're programming code. YMMV.


----------



## toph

some of the names are quite cool how about the 300 part being in roman numerals

say something like 'HMS CCC' or something of the sort


----------



## ljb187

A dial option: Instead of calling this watch <<Watch Name>> 300 (In my case Seafire 300), you could leave off the 300 but replace the tritium mark on the dial:









with the classic Greek number for 300 which is Tau. Conveniently, that number looks like this:










Alternatively you could call it "Seafire 300" (or whatever else you'd like) and just replace the tritium mark with the Greek number. Whatever you'd prefer, theres an extra bit of symmetry since the marking is now tied by language to the manufacturer of the classic watch and one Greek symbol (Omega) has been logically replaced by another.

My third option, if you wanted to jazz things up even further, is to move the tau symbol over MKll on the top of the dial and use Bill's Y marking in place of the tritium mark. That would be kind of neat too, I just wonder if such a layout might be getting a little too close to the original.


----------



## Thieuster

Great ideas! Personally, for me the 'tau' symbol would be the best!

Menno


----------



## Kent108

I like the idea, as long as we still come up with a name for the watch. I'd rather not take Prince's approach and call this "The watch formerly known as Project 300."


----------



## Eksdad

We'll have to use this.


----------



## bob m

hell a cirlce Y is all i want with a 300 and a simple name-those symbols are a turn off to me


----------



## Eksdad

The use of "the artist formerly known as Prince" symbol was a joke in reference to an earlier post. I added watch hands. It was an attempt at humor.


----------



## ljb187

bob m said:


> hell a cirlce Y is all i want with a 300 and a simple name-those symbols are a turn off to me


Aw, what the heck. I say the world needs purists and crumudgeons. Without them there'd be a lot more of this:









In my defence though, I did suggest calling it <<Watch Name>> 300 in an earlly post.


----------



## enkidu

I'm partial to something nice and simple. I've borrowed an image from a watchuseek user kzs70 (https://www.watchuseek.com/f20/seamaster-300-dial-question-349623.html) and mocked this up.


----------



## NWP627

wats911 said:


> Of this list, I'm partial to Dreadnought (first nuc. sub in the Royal Navy - obvious ties to a dive watch) or Ark Royal (flag ship against the Spanish Armada, ship responsible for killing the Bismarck during WWII, and currently a carrier).


Precista also sells a watch called the SEWILLS "ARK ROYAL" AUTOMATIC CHRONOMETER.
N


----------



## G-Junkie

enkidu said:


> I'm partial to something nice and simple. I've borrowed an image from a watchuseek user kzs70 (https://www.watchuseek.com/f20/seamaster-300-dial-question-349623.html) and mocked this up.


 So far, I like this idea the most. I believe a simple "300" without any cryptic insider nickname works the best. It's straight to the point while being open ended at the same time. I'd say just keep the watch at "300"

edit: also, I think putting in printed text would detract attention away from the beautiful big triangle. I think this is why I never did like the mods made to look like the 300


----------



## bob m

new survey out from bill-voting to reduce the # to 100 instead of 150 and LIGHT THIS CANDLE


----------



## jussi

put down my vote as a YAY!........ but WHY oh Why the increase of casesize? don't we have enough of big chuncky almost non-weareable watches?

I for 1 liked the idea of having a well made, durable watch that could take the heat... any time of the day or occasion..without looking like I was on my way to do some VERY serious diving like the marianer trench.

Not every watch needs to be all bulky & toolish.... just my two cents...


----------



## Yao

jussi said:


> put down my vote as a YAY!........ but WHY oh Why the increase of casesize? don't we have enough of big chuncky almost non-weareable watches?
> 
> I for 1 liked the idea of having a well made, durable watch that could take the heat... any time of the day or occasion..without looking like I was on my way to do some VERY serious diving like the marianer trench.
> 
> Not every watch needs to be all bulky & toolish.... just my two cents...


I was wearing the reference watch for a few days and just felt it was too small given the current environment. I also have desperately small wrists. The change may have more to do with the way the dial looks in the case than anything else. I think in about 5 years time you will find that most men's watches are in the 40-42 mm diameter range. I think's Rolex's move to this size is indicative of what will end up being the reference size for the foreseeable future. My belief is that the larger size will stand the test of time better.

Just an FYI: I will be posting new sticky's to the top of the forum. This thread in particular is getting too big. I will be separating the discussion into the major points that we will have to decide and then linking to the threads through the Mk II Main Site so that they are easier to find and navigate.


----------



## jussi

I don't doubt that the standard will be in the 40-42 mm range... but wht go for the later...;-)
I already hade youre MilSub non HEV and have no problems wearing it on the wrist... it's just that it tends to bang in to all sorts of stuff... plainly because of it size... thats not a sign in my eyes that will stand the test of times.


----------



## Yao

Well that is a point well taken. I was referring to the idea that the design won't look as dated in the near future rather than its physical survival.;-)


----------



## jussi

ohh... & I tought you were going to build me a physicaly rough&tough watch that I could wear for a long time, and not just a modern fancy-pancy watch for the catwalk ;-) lol 
....what if my highheals break and I fall of the catwalk? will it endure.....or will it get snagged somewhere (because of it's sheer size) and breake but at least make me look good designwise ;-)


----------



## Eksdad

Bill, if you reduce the diameter of the watch by 1-2mm then jussi won't bang his watch on every wall he walks by. He just bought a car that was a centimeter shorter than his previous car and it has greatly cut down on the number of traffic accidents he has been involved in.


----------



## Yao

jussi said:


> ohh... & I tought you were going to build me a physicaly rough&tough watch that I could wear for a long time, and not just a modern fancy-pancy watch for the catwalk ;-) lol
> ....what if my highheals break and I fall of the catwalk? will it endure.....or will it get snagged somewhere (because of it's sheer size) and breake but at least make me look good designwise ;-)


I am sure the durability will be just fine given the new size. If it wasn't I wouldn't have made the change. If its any consolation the watch will be a little thinner than the original.

Otherwise I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree. The diameter won't be up for debate.


----------



## jussi

Eksdad: Exactly my point ;-) 
just make it the way I want it don't mind the others ;-)

edt: oh missed you're post there Bill..... well... guess thinner will have to do then 
may cut down on some of the wallbang'in for me.


----------



## ljb187

Fence sitter here. One question:

1) The voting deadline for restructuring is 6/20. Will there be any time alloted between the results of that vote and when pre-order reservations are shutdown?


----------



## G-Junkie

> _*Updated June 6, 2011*_ _These specifications supersede those published on the E-boutique)_
> Diameter
> 42.00 mm across bezel (not including crown) *Length* *50.00 mm* Case height 12.00 - 13.50 mm (estimate) Case material 316L Stainless steel Water resistance 200 or 300 meters depending on case design Bezel
> 60 or 120 click uni-directional bezel with sapphire inlay.
> 
> Strap attachment Spring bars Crystal
> High domed sapphire crsytal with AR coatingon the interior surface only Crown
> Double gasket screw down crown. Movement Elabore grade Rhodium plated ETA 2824-2 decorated with Geneva stripes Luminous material BG W9 (white color, blue glow) Dial
> Date and non-date "Big Triangle" dial at a minimum Handset
> Mk II MOD Swod hands (see LRRP) with new tooling for seconds hand. Bracelet
> Solid link bracelet. We will try for a solid-end link bracelet but our fall back will be a folded-end piece solid link bracelet.


can't say that I'm thrilled about the case length change. I was ok with it being 47.5mm because that was the maximum length my thin wrists could handle. But now, it's too long for me to wear. I hope that this isn't the final dimension of the watch...

i was excited about the project before, now seeing this change, it's like a pot shot. :-(


----------



## ASRSPR

In anticipation of the launch of the design phase, I've already been hard at work with mockups. Names aside, what do people think of having a scripty typeface on the dial? The Seamaster script certainly breaks from the stoic, no-nonsense stuff Bill usually puts out, even if it isn't really, ah, fancy-pants. But hey, we've got Kingstons with gilded hands and dials and those turned out just *beautiful*.

I think there are some very interesting possibilities! Here's a preview of what I've been working on:









It's straying a little into Breitling Superocean Heritage territory:










I'm going to go ahead and predict sizable and vocal opposition to this direction ;-)


----------



## caesarmascetti

Yao said:


> I am sure the durability will be just fine given the new size. If it wasn't I wouldn't have made the change. If its any consolation the watch will be a little thinner than the original.
> 
> Otherwise I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree. The diameter won't be up for debate.


Hi Bill, glad to see this project up and running, just curious is the lug to lug distance set in stone? 50mm I believe is about the length of my Seafighter and it fills my wrist up completely 7.25" wrist. I'm wondering if perhaps keeping the diameter at the larger 42mm and making the watch shorter say 48mm wouldn't satisfy both camps, or would it screw up the proportions? Just a thought. Oh by the way I couldn't resist:


----------



## Yao

G-Junkie said:


> can't say that I'm thrilled about the case length change. I was ok with it being 47.5mm because that was the maximum length my thin wrists could handle. But now, it's too long for me to wear. I hope that this isn't the final dimension of the watch...
> 
> i was excited about the project before, now seeing this change, it's like a pot shot. :-(


This is the only things I dislike about the forum format. I can't tell if you already have a deposit or not. (And I really hate to put it this way as it sounds elitist - which isn't how I mean it - as the input overall is valuable) If there is sizable opposition from those that already have deposits then I would reconsider the dimensions using a survey.


----------



## Yao

Its possible but I doubt we could make it exactly 48mm. The original is 48 mm long. However if we shortened the watch it would change the look without a doubt. Whether it was a good change or bad change is different story.


----------



## Yao

ASRSPR said:


> In anticipation of the launch of the design phase, I've already been hard at work with mockups. Names aside, what do people think of having a scripty typeface on the dial? The Seamaster script certainly breaks from the stoic, no-nonsense stuff Bill usually puts out, even if it isn't really, ah, fancy-pants. But hey, we've got Kingstons with gilded hands and dials and those turned out just *beautiful*.
> 
> I'm going to go ahead and predict sizable and vocal opposition to this direction ;-)


I like the idea. I'd vote for a more thoughtful name than the one I just picked as the first thing I could think of....:-d


----------



## Eksdad

*ljb187* you will get off the fence. You will join the project 300 group.

This Jedi mind trick ability that I have comes in handy in situations like this.


----------



## caesarmascetti

Yao said:


> Its possible but I doubt we could make it exactly 48mm. The original is 48 mm long. However if we shortened the watch it would change the look without a doubt. Whether it was a good change or bad change is different story.


I hear you, just thought it would make it more wearable. IMO overall length is as important if not more so than diameter as to how a watch wears


----------



## Yao

caesarmascetti said:


> I hear you, just thought it would make it more wearable. IMO overall length is as important if not more so than diameter as to how a watch wears


Yes I would agree as well. Its a dimension that is all to often left out of the description of a lot of the mainstream companies.


----------



## ljb187

ASRSPR said:


>


Nice work. I've been thinking about this and what if, in order to take things a little further from homage territory, the watch's number were added before the 300? Doing so would still referrence the original, but also informs that it's a limited editon MKll piece. An example would then read "Watch_Name 001/300". I actually downloaded some graphics software to try and do a few of these mockups myself. We'll see how (or even if) that turns out.

Does anybody know if there is an answer to my original question regarding reservations post vote?


----------



## G-Junkie

Yao said:


> This is the only things I dislike about the forum format. I can't tell if you already have a deposit or not. (And I really hate to put it this way as it sounds elitist - which isn't how I mean it - as the input overall is valuable) If there is sizable opposition from those that already have deposits then I would reconsider the dimensions using a survey.


 yes, I have put in a deposit back in February. I believe the original case length was still at 47.5 at that time. I had only noticed that it was changed to 50mm just last night after submitting my survey.

edit: no worries about sounding elitist, I detected no hint of it in your response


----------



## Yao

G-Junkie said:


> yes, I have put in a deposit back in February. I believe the original case length was still at 47.5 at that time. I had only noticed that it was changed to 50mm just last night after submitting my survey.
> 
> edit: no worries about sounding elitist, I detected no hint of it in your response


Thanks for the feedback. I will see what I can about the length. I have been doing some research online. Shortening the watch to 48 or 49 mm while keeping the diameter 42 mm will change the look of the watch and much of the rest of the case body would have to be adjusted to compensate.


----------



## enkidu

50mm would be right at the upper limits of my preferences, but it would be doable. My Blackwater is 47.5mm, my Corvus is 51+, so the 300 would be right in between. I really like the shape of my Omega GMT Great White, but it's at the shop so I can't measure it. With regard to the expected thickness, I'd really like it to be the thinner side of the expected specs, but even 13.5mm would be acceptable.


----------



## ASRSPR

Yao said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I will see what I can about the length. I have been doing some research online. Shortening the watch to 48 or 49 mm while keeping the diameter 42 mm will change the look of the watch and much of the rest of the case body would have to be adjusted to compensate.


Sorry if this has already been covered, but I assume that you mean a 42mm bezel diameter rather than a 42mm case width on the 9-3 o'clock axis, right? The asymmetric crown guards adds to the difference of these two measurements.

As with others, I'd prefer a lower lug-to-lug length. 50mm is toward the edge of reasonable for me while 48 would be much nicer. I'm also in the camp that would prefer a 40mm bezel diameter, but it sounds like that this dimension is more or less intractable.



enkidu said:


> 50mm would be right at the upper limits of my preferences, but it would be doable. My Blackwater is 47.5mm, my Corvus is 51+, so the 300 would be right in between. I really like the shape of my Omega GMT Great White, but it's at the shop so I can't measure it. With regard to the expected thickness, I'd really like it to be the thinner side of the expected specs, but even 13.5mm would be acceptable.


The old Omega SMP cases are 47.4mm lug-to-lug. The Paradive is a bit larger than the Blackwater, as expected, at 49.5mm. The Precista PRS-14 is more true to the SM300 at 47.7mm.


----------



## Eksdad

I am ok with the 50mm length. If the length can be reduced slightly and still maintain the aesthetics of the watch, then I'm ok with that too. I am only posting this to offset the appearance that everybody wants/has to have the length shortened.


----------



## Yao

Eksdad said:


> I am ok with the 50mm length. If the length can be reduced slightly and still maintain the aesthetics of the watch, then I'm ok with that too. I am only posting this to offset the appearance that everybody wants/has to have the length shortened.


Just to make sure everyone is aware of the change (and to get their input) I will do a survey to confirm the size. I realized a little late that not everyone probably read the News post and/or saw the new Project 300 page.

What started the change for me was the fact that I am working on a pilot's watch concept that is 39 to 40 mm. It seems a little out of wack to me that a dive watch like the Project 300 would be nearly the same size.

But perhaps I have been working in my own little world a little too long without coming up for air.


----------



## AlejandrOmega

*50 is too big*

I have had my deposit in since the project was announced.

I am already a little bit turned off by the 42mm size, and the 50mm length would be too much for me.

I like the size of the original Seamaster best and would prefer that, but understand that you can't always get what you want.

Whatever you decide to do, please keep us updated. I'm sure the watch will be great, but it might not to be for me.

best,
Alex


----------



## Yao

*Re: 50 is too big*



AlejandrOmega said:


> I have had my deposit in since the project was announced.
> 
> I am already a little bit turned off by the 42mm size, and the 50mm length would be too much for me.
> 
> I like the size of the original Seamaster best and would prefer that, but understand that you can't always get what you want.
> 
> Whatever you decide to do, please keep us updated. I'm sure the watch will be great, but it might not to be for me.
> 
> best,
> Alex


Well like I said we will use a survey. Its a more democratic process and I think arrives at a better answer for everyone involved. So those of you that have taken issue with the current size please rest assured that we will revisit the issue with a survey contrary to my recent statement.


----------



## browningwgm

*Re: 50 is too big*



Yao said:


> Well like I said we will use a survey. Its a more democratic process and I think arrives at a better answer for everyone involved. So those of you that have taken issue with the current size please rest assured that we will revisit the issue with a survey contrary to my recent statement.


If after the survey the majority wants a smaller watch will I be able to receive a refund of my deposit? I would not be interested if it gets any smaller.


----------



## Yao

*Re: 50 is too big*



browningwgm said:


> If after the survey the majority wants a smaller watch will I be able to receive a refund of my deposit? I would not be interested if it gets any smaller.


Yes. No one is locked in until the drawings are done and sent off the manufacturer. There will be notice before that happens.


----------



## Alan B

I'm in the pencil wrist group. 50mm would be too big for me. I'd rather have a watch smaller than 42mm if that's something we can discuss.

Alan


----------



## Semuta

What are the measurements of the Planet Ocean? I know it's 42mm, but what of the length? I have tiny 6.5" wrists and the POs I've tried on have fit me quite well, so if this had a similar feel it could be very wearable.


----------



## ASRSPR

This suggests 47.7mm. His lug-to-lug measurement for the SMP is close to mine.

TimeZone: Omega: A review of the Planet Ocean and Seamaster Professional (Modem Burner!)


----------



## Kent108

*Re: 50 is too big*

I'm OK with dimensions as specified in the latest poll/e-mail, but I would have to reconsider if the size were to increase in any way, shape or form. Ideally, for me, dimensions would get smaller.

As it is, I'm still looking forward to this! I've wanted an SM300 type of watch for years, but never liked the available options on the market; this is the first that had all of the features I wanted.


----------



## chris7013

Pulled the trigger and fired of my deposit today. I have no idea wher I am in line, if I'm a plank owner (probably not), or if this is going to be as fantastic looking as I imagine (probably will be). Good to be on the team.


----------



## Eksdad

Welcome Chris. This is a fun group and it will be a fantastic watch.


----------



## ASRSPR

Any word on the results? If the measure failed, then we shouldn't waste any time in announcing it so that we can rouse people into filling up the remaining slots. I'm hopeful that once the word goes out that we're close to the plank deadline, the remaining slots will fill quickly.

If the measure succeeded, I've got design concepts to post!


----------



## Benji.

Just placed my deposit. At least I think so, didn't get any confirmation via e-mail yet (normal?). Time could pass by a bit quicker though. :-d

Edit: Oops, Gmail had marked it as spam. I selected "pay later" as the payment option, how does this work? I don't recommend leaving your credit card in the bus. :-d


----------



## chris7013

This threes seems to have slowed down. Any idea when the design thread will be open and will it be restricted to those of us who have pre orders in? Might be a good idea. Not to exclude others ideas but to limit the input and discussion to a central location for those committed to the build. Any developments can be posted in the forum so others can see the progress and comment on the design. 
C


----------



## siess

I'm in. Deposit paid, anticipation set to slow simmer...


----------



## artefact0

Hi all,

I plan to order, but is there anyone can tell me why the 300 is 2 times more expensive than the Kingston MKII was ??:roll:








Thanks


----------



## cpotters

artefact0 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I plan to order, but is there anyone can tell me why the 300 is 2 times more expensive than the Kingston MKII was ??:roll:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


Sure. Without putting too fine a point on it (and my apologies to Bill for pointing this out), it's partly because some of the sourced parts have risen dramatically in price, but mostly because the Kingston was woefully underpriced for the amount of time that went into it - both the design AND assembly phase. It is highly unlikely that MkII or any other boutique watchmaker will have the luxury of repeating that mistake twice.


----------



## artefact0

cpotters said:


> Sure. Without putting too fine a point on it (and my apologies to Bill for pointing this out), it's partly because some of the sourced parts have risen dramatically in price, but mostly because the Kingston was woefully underpriced for the amount of time that went into it - both the design AND assembly phase. It is highly unlikely that MkII or any other boutique watchmaker will have the luxury of repeating that mistake twice.


Thanks, I see.
The ball is in my camp, as we say in France.:-d


----------



## enkidu

cpotters said:


> Sure. Without putting too fine a point on it (and my apologies to Bill for pointing this out), it's partly because some of the sourced parts have risen dramatically in price, but mostly because the Kingston was woefully underpriced for the amount of time that went into it - both the design AND assembly phase. It is highly unlikely that MkII or any other boutique watchmaker will have the luxury of repeating that mistake twice.


Great points cpotters! I'd also add that the 300 includes a planned sapphire bezel, a significantly more expensive option.


----------



## ASRSPR

I really think that people should be *much* more excited about the really rather extravagant high dome sapphire crystal, compared with the Kingston's nice, but more typical double dome. I have a high domed "Hardlex" crystal on my Seiko SARB065 that is of similar geometry as Bill has described and it's phenomenal; I've also seen the high dome sapphire crystals on the 3573 "Sapphire Sandwich" Speedmasters and those are amazing as well. This is one of the major problems with the Precista PRS-14: for some rather insensible reason, it has a low profile domed acrylic crystal, which changes not only the profile of the crystal, but of the case as well. Personally, I wasn't initially sure if the sapphire high domed crystal was a big deal over going the acrylic route, but now I'm really anticipating it.

Here's what the Sapphire crystal on the 3573 Speedmaster looks like (picture by forum member Matt.wu):









Here's my picture of my SARB065 (a bit harder to make out the geometry):


Seamaster 300 (ref. 165.024) - from WUS Member grogrogro31










Here's the post archiving the email Bill sent out to explain some of the specification changes that contribute to the price increase: https://www.watchuseek.com/f325/project-300-poll-469278.html


----------



## artefact0

Many thanks for these explanations, guys.
I can order now.|>


----------



## artefact0

artefact0 said:


> Many thanks for these explanations, guys.
> I can order now.|>


Done !!


----------



## tmoris

im wearing a smp 2254.50 and it perfectly fits my 17,5 cm wrist. i wouldnt really want a watch that would be longer than the 2254.50 (whatever that is)


----------



## chris7013

Anyone here anything new about where we stand on this project? I know the first survey has been closed but haven't heard anything new in a month. I have a feeling the Kingston general ordering is going to push this to the back burner again. I hope we don't run out of gas.


----------



## ASRSPR

Since we haven't heard anything back from Bill in a few weeks on this, I think we must all operate under the assumption that the measure failed to garner the sufficient positive responses.

Which means that we have 19 days left to spread the word and recruit others to get on-board the pre-order. It's probably not been widely publicized that August 1 is the do-or-die date, so we'll need at most 50 new pre-orders by then. I would think that if people knew about the project and knew that it's finally ready to get off the ground, and that the pre-order phase is over on August 1, we should be able to find that many people.

So, uh - go tell your friends! Mk II Project 300 - sapphire bezel, high dome sapphire crystal, high-end MkII fit and finish, customer input, and classic Seamaster styling.


----------



## chris7013

The word has been spread and the interest is there, however most know the prolonged wait that will be involved and don't have the patience for it. I hope this gets rolling but I fear it is to soon after the Kingston and has been a pipe dream for years. I am in for the long haul but fear more dropouts for every new pre-order and it has stalled. Bill? What is your best guess? Do you think it's going to happen? I wish 100 was the magic number. We have to be close to that by now.


----------



## austinnh

I don't have a deposit down. But, for what it's worth, I would be interested if the case is shrunk to original dimensions. I realize this may be a minority opinion but I'm throwing it out there.


----------



## enkidu

ASRSPR said:


> Since we haven't heard anything back from Bill in a few weeks on this, I think we must all operate under the assumption that the measure failed to garner the sufficient positive responses.


I don't think we can assume this for sure. I'm still hopeful that we got enough positive responses that we will have lift-off. However, I do agree that we should spread the word as widely as possible.


ASRSPR said:


> Which means that we have 19 days left to spread the word and recruit others to get on-board the pre-order. It's probably not been widely publicized that August 1 is the do-or-die date, so we'll need at most 50 new pre-orders by then. I would think that if people knew about the project and knew that it's finally ready to get off the ground, and that the pre-order phase is over on August 1, we should be able to find that many people.
> 
> So, uh - go tell your friends! Mk II Project 300 - sapphire bezel, high dome sapphire crystal, high-end MkII fit and finish, customer input, and classic Seamaster styling.


Use this link Project 300 to spread the word! And this link Pre-order deposit --Project 300 Deposit Detail Page to get people to pay!


----------



## chris7013

To be fair I believe Bill is on vacation or will be soon. So if thats the case I hope he gets some relaxation and recharges his hair spring. I am also one in favor of pulling back the lug with from 50mm but can live with it just fine. Hope we hear something by next week. It's a ..... having a product in demand.


----------



## ASRSPR

thuyuyen said:


> I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


More news of what? The proposed model parameters are on the website and since Bill has not notified us that the pre-order is closed or that the project has been canceled, it seems that any pre-order made at this time should be accepted. If you aren't sure of a particular design parameter - e.g. the increased size of the watch - I think that Bill implied that such details will be finalized during the design phase. If there is other information that you require, then perhaps someone on this thread can help answer it (or point to one of the venues through which Bill has released information in the past).

If you are inclined to make a pre-order, it would probably be wise to do so before the August 1st deadline to ensure that the project actually goes forward. The deposit should still be refundable so long as the design is not yet finalized.


----------



## ljb187

Ok fellas, I just placed my order so I'm in. A little leery about the size, but we'll see how that turns out. This will be my first MKII after a series of near misses. My history reads like this:

1) I became aware of MKII when I got into watches a few years ago and was looking for my first good tool watch. At the time the Fifty Fathoms seemed like the great alternative to the more readily available Submariner but the price and large size stopped me in my tracks. A few searches led me to MKII's Tornek-Rayville homage but after a few days of fruitless clicking I accepted that it was no longer available
2) Next I was looking for a field watch and returned again and again to MKII trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I would have gotten a custom Vantage (when they were available) with a MIL-W-4637 type setup but wanted crown guards so I never pulled the trigger
3) Capstone LRRP just missed the cut when I opted for a Sinn 656 instead (I liked the idea of a smaller field watch) 
4) Ordered the 300 because I've participated enough in these threads so I figured I'd put my money where my mouth is. I really like the 300 design so the idea of a robust, updated version is appealing to me

Getting back to number 1. I think an MKII version of the traditional MIL-W-4637 watch would be an outstanding addition to its formidable collection of tool watches. I'd sell my Sinn the day one became available.

Oh yeah, Paradive Type 1-A1, Non-Date is awfully cool too!


----------



## Thieuster

Welcome to the MKII fraternaty! Now, over to the sticky thread where you can propose a name for the watch! Add your contribution. 

Menno


----------



## ASRSPR

So, August 1 has rolled around and, assuming the poll posted 6 weeks ago is still accurate, the pre-order phase should be finished and we should learn shortly if the project is to continue or we all go home. The posting of the three design threads makes me hopeful that the former is true, but of course we'll await Bill's word.


----------



## artefact0

Soon the end of August !!:think::think:


----------



## gordonf

shophie1 said:


> Interested in the Project 300 and checked out the link....is this still active, in terms of putting in a preorder? I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


I'm a plank owner and a few days ago I got a couple emails from MK II giving me access to the customer service portal and officially opening my order. I assume that means things are moving forward. Jump in, it's going to be a cool watch!


----------



## White Tuna

shophie1 said:


> Interested in the Project 300 and checked out the link....is this still active, in terms of putting in a preorder? I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


If you go to this link and go to the preorder link it says it is currently full:

Project 300


----------



## chris7013

I mailed him as well, but only yesterday. I'm sure he's busy but the slow down of interest in the 300 has me concerned. No sense in keeping the discussion going if our ideas are already out there, we'll just have to wait for some input from Bill and I'm sure it will pick back up again. I guess we all knew it would be a long process so the slow down is bearable. 
Chris


----------



## artefact0

Hi guys,
Received survey last night. 
Serious things are beginning:-!:-!


----------



## Thieuster

I've received the email too. Before I am going to answer the questions, I'll brake out the venier caliper first. And a handful of watches! Just to make sure I'll tick the correct box.

Menno


----------



## artefact0

Thieuster said:


> I've received the email too. Before I am going to answer the questions, I'll brake out the venier caliper first. And a handful of watches! Just to make sure I'll tick the correct box.
> 
> Menno


Good idea !:-d


----------



## wats911

Saw this and I thought I'd share.

British Ministry of Defense Omega Seamaster 300. ... | HODINKEE


----------



## Lendoma78

Mk II Project 300 - sapphire bezel, high dome sapphire crystal, high-end MkII fit and finish, customer input, and classic Seamaster styling.


----------



## ASRSPR

Kimchonsu said:


> Every time I saw different posts over here thanks for sharing such a wonderful site with us. I find it is very interesting and necessary for my life and my work. I will go on to share. Thank you so much!


I almost can't think of a less apt venue for an "ovulation prediction kit" spambot.


----------



## cojis

I'd love one, if I knew what the finished product was and I didn't have to plonk down money and wait another12-18-24 months for a watch.:think:


----------



## Guest

Interested in the Project 300 and checked out the link....is this still active, in terms of putting in a preorder? I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


----------



## enkidu

haha99 said:


> Interested in the Project 300 and checked out the link....is this still active, in terms of putting in a preorder? I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


I believe that preorders have been closed but you can get on the waiting list.


----------



## artefact0

haha99 said:


> Interested in the Project 300 and checked out the link....is this still active, in terms of putting in a preorder? I emailed Mr Yao but no email back yet....looks like being busy with the Kingston. Should I wait till more news on this?


Hi all,
haha99,

I ordered two, one for a friend. But since, this one had major health problems.
I don't know if it is possible to formally assign a pre-order.
Does someone has already done by contacting Bill Yao ? :think:

Bye,;-)


----------



## Hesh

You can sign up to the waiting list on the website.


----------



## WillH

I signed up about a month ago. But realistically, anyone know what are the chances of actually getting a slot? 10%, 50%, 80% ?? How was it for the Kingston?

In the mean-time, I've got a Yobokies SKX007-300 mod incoming... hopefully that will hold me for now.


----------



## tmoris

I was talking about P300 on a local forum and I was surprised when someone came up with this link showing a Big Triangle SMP300 on sale for 1850 GBP. I was under the impression that the Big Triangle cost was on much higher levels and only Watchco non big triangle watches were around the 2-4k price range.

Or are we basing P300 around a different Big Triangle piece? If so, what are the differences?


----------



## tmoris

noone around here has the knowledge of my previous post question??


----------



## enkidu

tmoris said:


> noone around here has the knowledge of my previous post question??


I've seen BT SM300's go for what seems to be about a 1-1.5kUSD premium over the non-BT variants. The ones that go for a lot more seem to have some sort of MOD provenance.


----------



## tmoris

So a BT would be around 3-4k. It just really makes me reconsider my 1.5k (or was it more? cant remember) plank ownership while there is still time to jump ship..

edit: more like 2k plank for me since im from EU..


----------



## ASRSPR

tmoris said:


> So a BT would be around 3-4k. It just really makes me reconsider my 1.5k (or was it more? cant remember) plank ownership while there is still time to jump ship..
> 
> edit: more like 2k plank for me since im from EU..


As I understand it, Project 300 was never intended to be like the Kingston, where it's a Mk II made stand-in for an impossibly out of reach collector's watch.


----------



## enkidu

tmoris said:


> So a BT would be around 3-4k. It just really makes me reconsider my 1.5k (or was it more? cant remember) plank ownership while there is still time to jump ship..
> 
> edit: more like 2k plank for me since im from EU..


I hear you tmoris. But, you have to consider the delicacy of many of those BT's, the WR of many of them are suspect and the provenance even more. I think my reasons for sticking with this project from more than a year ago in this thread (#206) are just as valid today as they were then.


----------



## tmoris

enkidu said:


> I hear you tmoris. But, you have to consider the delicacy of many of those BT's, the WR of many of them are suspect and the provenance even more. I think my reasons for sticking with this project from more than a year ago in this thread (#206) are just as valid today as they were then.


well.. i understand your POV, im just growing uncertain .. i guess i'll decide when the final decision comes (paying the remainder of the plank). Im having an iwc 3231 incoming shortly and the kingston sometime later this year, so gotta decide what to keep..


----------



## caesarmascetti

tmoris said:


> well.. i understand your POV, im just growing uncertain .. i guess i'll decide when the final decision comes (paying the remainder of the plank). Im having an iwc 3231 incoming shortly and the kingston sometime later this year, so gotta decide what to keep..


For what it's worth I'm having this same dilema, I have a watchco SM300. The watch is absolutely beautiful and passed a pressure test, but do I really want to wear it when Im in the ocean, or washing the car, or biking? The answer is no not me. The SM300 homage that Bill makes will be more durable and more of an everyday wear. As any quality piece it won't be cheap. I won't be suprised if many owners of vintage SM300's actually buy Bill's piece, had to add a pic of my SM300:


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## artefact0

Hi guys,

Now, it's too late for this Christmas . Maybe next year ??
Merry Christmas all and happy new year.;-)


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## MHe225

Not going to happen!

As I wrote in the Project GMT thread, I like (love) to be proven wrong, but I simply don't see this happen. Let's face it, the design of the dial isn't final yet, we have only seen a few initial sketches for the case. Once all of that is finalized, it's off to prototyping, then maybe some alterations and finally the production run (of all components. I am assuming that Mr. Bill will do part of the assembly himself in a similar fashion to the Kingston assembly, so ..... Christmas 2014 sounds more realistic - for the first watches to be delivered, that is.

RonB


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## artefact0

Unfortunately, I think you're in the right. Anyway, I think it is long, very (too ?) long !:-(


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## JCW1980

MHe225 said:


> ..... Christmas 2014 sounds more realistic - for the first watches to be delivered, that is.


That's a looooong haul... Even by MKII standards. You guys who dropped deposits in the very beginning would be getting dangerously close to the 5 year mark at that point.


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## artefact0

JCW1980 said:


> That's a looooong haul... Even by MKII standards. You guys who dropped deposits in the very beginning would be getting dangerously close to the 5 year mark at that point.


So I have time to die 2 times before receiving two watches ordered.:think:


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## scorpius73

Am I too late to get in to purchase one of these watches?


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## tmoris

JCW1980 said:


> That's a looooong haul... Even by MKII standards. You guys who dropped deposits in the very beginning would be getting dangerously close to the 5 year mark at that point.


i have already forgotten about how long ago and how much ive put down. which is by far the best way to be an mkii customer. a happy one too


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## sierra11b

JCW1980 said:


> That's a looooong haul... Even by MKII standards. You guys who dropped deposits in the very beginning would be getting dangerously close to the 5 year mark at that point.


I was one of them. Held onto the deposit for a months and saw the writing on the wall given the Kingston which prompted me to get my deposit refunded immediately.

Been a looooong time since I checked the MkII forum because I've simply lost interest... To be honest I come here just as more of a lesson in psychology of those still waiting for something that's likely to never happen. I just don't understand the waits as I've waited for custom work of a completely different hobby/genre where the maker delivered a completely sole authorship piece (meaning all parts of the item were made from scratch by the maker) in less than 2years; 6months before the estimated delivery period for the particular piece.

Granted that wasn't a watch but given that Yao is essentially assembling parts and insuring QC the wait should be far less. To put it in perspective I've saved and purchased two watches around $8K and am about a month away from my first Dornbluth delivery since I pulled my Project 300 deposit. Best move I've ever made in not having my monies tied-up in a pipe dream.


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## White Tuna

My pipedreams say hi:


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## americandave

Is that the P300 in the middle!? I thought it was a long way off....


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## sierra11b

White Tuna said:


> My pipedreams say hi:]


 Congrats! You can have them!


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## Chromejob

Wow. Sour Grapes Inc.


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## sierra11b

There aren't any grapes and that's the point. Heck, there never were any vines!

Look, I'm not trying to make anyone mad here and I certainly did not expect someone to flaunt their collection of MKIIs that have no meaning to me whatsoever...

I just come here on occasion to witness the inevitable breaking point of everyones' patience.


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## Dragoon

I dont think it is any big surprise for anyone who put funds down on the Project 300 that there would be a wait. After the Kingston project and the realizations that one man in the watch world is at the mercy of the mechanics of the industry as much as his own abilities I do not think that anyone anticipated the P300 being a "quickie".

Like yourself, if someone becomes disillusioned or just tired of waiting there is always the offer from Bill to refund your monies. So, there is no need for anyone to have "sour grapes".

All of this is common knowledge to most of the folks who venture into the world of MKII (and do a bit of reasearch) and is part of the deal.

Most folks have enough watches and enough time. Most folks know there will be a wait. It could be another year or more before the watch is delivered. That is a possible reality.

As far as the watch becoming a reality. I dont think there is any question in my mind that once Bill commits to a project that is WILL be done. If you are implying otherwise; I think you need to explain your rationale. Bill delivered on the Kingstons and he will deliver on the P300. He deserves and has earned that opportunity for those who have the patience to endure the process. I agree that many of the people today, like yourself, do not have the patience or desire.

I would imagine now that the Kingstons are delivered that the P300 is getting some development time. I personally think this spring/early summer that Bill will have more solid info on this project.

Definitely not for the "instant gratification" folks!

As far as your Dornbeuth. Big Congrats. Those are amazing pieces!



sierra11b said:


> There aren't any grapes and that's the point. Heck, there never were any vines!
> 
> Look, I'm not trying to make anyone mad here and I certainly did not expect someone to flaunt their collection of MKIIs that have no meaning to me whatsoever...
> 
> I just come here on occasion to witness the inevitable breaking point of everyones' patience.


----------



## sierra11b

Dragoon said:


> As far as the watch becoming a reality. I dont think there is any question in my mind that once Bill commits to a project that is WILL be done. If you are implying otherwise; I think you need to explain your rationale. Bill delivered on the Kingstons and he will deliver on the P300. He deserves and has earned that opportunity for those who have the patience to endure the process. I agree that many of the people today, like yourself, do not have the patience or desire.


Okay, I'll explain.... But first off, thanks for the congrats on the Dornbluth! :-!

It was the desire go elsewhere as I have proven my personal patience to endure massive waits time and time again. The difference is that there's always been a time table which allowed you to gauge the responsibility of the maker if the time period wasn't realized. Would anyone do business with a company that presented a project or idea with no foreseeable timetable?

In 2005 I placed an order for an item in this _other hobby_ (that cannot be discussed per the rules) and was given a one year wait. Cost of the overall project was $3k and required a substantial deposit. The project was six months overdue when I began to get suspicious... The maker assured me everything was going as planned, even sent me pictures of the project, claiming that he was just behind. Then another 6 months passed and I had an old LEO buddy from that state dig-up a hefty divorce settlement and alimony. Turns out he lost his entire shop and was holding the deposits. It took local LEO leverage and the maker association this person belonged to guarantee my deposit be refunded at the expense he forfeit his association membership. Charges were almost filed until he finally had to return all the deposits from other buyers. I got very lucky!

Now I'm not insinuating this exact scenario is happening with Yao but do find his behavior a tad suspicious with all these projects, spin-off models utilizing similar components, inconsistent communication, nothing for sale, and especially no timelines. Yes there's the search function at your disposal on what you're potentially getting into by placing a deposit, but I fear that's not enough with a sponsored forum which is continuously policed so that everything appears fine... It's certainly not the entire picture for those about to place a deposit for a Project GMT; a project that may have some traction (although I'm not holding my breath).

I must admit the lineage to Mkii and this idea that it's 'part of the Mkii experience' is old and seemingly meaningless now. It was acceptable three years ago, maybe even two years ago, but when is enough enough? In the end it's not my money anymore but I just hope everyone knows exactly what they're getting themselves into and hope it all works out.


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## Dragoon

BTW, what model of Dornbleuth did you choose? I dont think anyone would mind if you posted a picture of that timepiece if you have one or a pic from the manufacturer. His watches are a miracle in metal.

I am glad you were able to recover your investment. And, yes, there are those situations in any business deal that can spell trouble. And when you have a small operation the ability of one person to shoulder all the work and business is a lot to handle.

I believe I read that Bill graduated from the Wharton School of Business (Penn State or Pitt?) and worked in some type of financial sector in NYC. Not sure if it was Wall Street or just in the Financial District but certainly he is intelligent and has a keen sense of business acumen and true desire to build his watch business. If Bill had just wanted to make a ton of money he could of stayed in NYC, Wall Street, or joined the Mortgage Bankers Association and made a fortune at the expense of the tax payers....the 99 % that actually pay taxes.

I have found him to be honest and candid even when it may not have been particularly good news with the Kingston. Quite refreshing for me. Personally, I have faith in Bill. Now, if society or our economic system in general collapses then I guess I will not need that $600 deposit anyhow.

I have done some business in the watch business on a very small scale but I can tell you that it is not a fast paced enterprise...at least that was not my experience. The Swiss go on vacation for a month or six weeks in the mid to late summer and everything stops. So many concurrent parts, processes, and time allocations along with shipment time can really ruin a timeline. Add in the time for prototypes, case changes, crystal sourcing, and on and on with wait time, shipping time back and forth, along with delays, movement shortages, bezel changes and you get the idea.

Go to the MKII website and look at his video or monatge titled "Why the hell it takes so long to make an MKII!" or something to that extent. Same general idea as what I attempted to state.

And that is if everything is done correctly and there are NO mistakes in any phase of production. People can and do make mistakes. And it could be the blue print architect, the CNC, the substitute tool and die guy filling in for a sick co worker...ect. Bill experienced this at least one time with Kingston and I can t remember if it was his first batch of crowns (were not to specs) but it was significant delay and no fault of his own if I remember correctly (my memory is XXXX).

I am sure I am not explaining anything new to you concerning the workings of the watch industry and I am every bit a novice but I would think the artisan who creates all the pieces in his own shop from scratch would have much more control over timelines and finished products than an operation such as Bill's which sources production, parts, pieces, and manufacturers expertise from all over the world. Definitely a time consuming endeavor in my mind.

One thing worse than not having a timeline is not being able to guarantee and deliver on the timeline given. Take Sinn with their new 140A Space Chrono. They decided to develop a replacement for the Lemania 24 hour chrono movement which was used in the original 142 (I think that is the model number) that the German Astronaut took into "OUTER SPACE".

The article I read said Sinn did not put a timeline on the development of this new movement but even they were somewhat surprised that it took 7-8 years to create their new 24 hour Chronograph Calibre. And this is a very accomplished watch manufacture.

So, yes, I think I will have to agree that watches are a different animal when it comes to creating a new design or in the case of MKII reworking a classic vintage design.



sierra11b said:


> In 2005 I placed an order for an item in this _other hobby_ (that cannot be discussed per the rules) and was given a one year wait. Cost of the overall project was $3k and required a substantial deposit. The project was six months overdue when I began to get suspicious... The maker assured me everything was going as planned, even sent me pictures of the project, claiming that he was just behind. Then another 6 months passed and I had an old LEO buddy from that state dig-up a hefty divorce settlement and alimony. Turns out he lost his entire shop and was holding the deposits. It took local LEO leverage and the maker association this person belonged to guarantee my deposit be refunded at the expense he forfeit his association membership. Charges were almost filed until he finally had to return all the deposits from other buyers. I got very lucky!
> 
> Now I'm not insinuating this exact scenario is happening with Yao but do find his behavior a tad suspicious with all these projects, spin-off models utilizing similar components, inconsistent communication, nothing for sale, and especially no timelines. Yes there's the search function at your disposal on what you're potentially getting into by placing a deposit, but I fear that's not enough with a sponsored forum which is continuously policed so that everything appears fine... It's certainly not the entire picture for those about to place a deposit for a Project GMT; a project that may have some traction (although I'm not holding my breath).


----------



## sierra11b

99.1 with all the bells and whistles. Delivery date is due in March and Dirk is already discussing the engraving via email.

No doubt Bill is a smart guy as he's UPenn alumni... my wife almost went to that university and she's a smart cookie.

While I do understand your point with Sinn I don't think it's a fair comparison to say designing the SZ01 is the same as assembling sourced parts. Let's not forget that Sinn has dozens of other watches available at any given time and contributed some considerable horological advancements throughout their years. On the other hand I still get emails from OWC about the daunting logistics involved with getting all the gears working smoothly. So I do get that part to a degree...

But why not put the cart behind the horse by working out all the design elements and logistics before accepting orders? The design elements should already be laid-out given the fact they're homage pieces, right? Handfuls of other boutique brands don't seem to have these problems and actually have a product to deliver. They have to develop designs from scratch and even those that have asked for design feedback on these very forums have delivered far quicker than any Mkii project. All I'm saying is deposits without sales, communication, and realistic deadlines is risky.



Dragoon said:


> I am glad you were able to recover your investment. And, yes, there are those situations in any business deal that can spell trouble. And when you have a small operation the ability of one person to shoulder all the work and business is a lot to handle.
> 
> I believe I read that Bill graduated from the Wharton School of Business (Penn State or Pitt?) and worked in some type of financial sector in NYC. Not sure if it was Wall Street or just in the Financial District but certainly he is intelligent and has a keen sense of business acumen and true desire to build his watch business. If Bill had just wanted to make a ton of money he could of stayed in NYC, Wall Street, or joined the Mortgage Bankers Association and made a fortune at the expense of the tax payers....the 99 % that actually pay taxes.
> 
> I have found him to be honest and candid even when it may not have been particularly good news with the Kingston. Quite refreshing for me. Personally, I have faith in Bill. Now, if society or our economic system in general collapses then I guess I will not need that $600 deposit anyhow.
> 
> I have done some business in the watch business on a very small scale but I can tell you that it is not a fast paced enterprise...at least that was not my experience. The Swiss go on vacation for a month or six weeks in the mid to late summer and everything stops. So many concurrent parts, processes, and time allocations along with shipment time can really ruin a timeline. Add in the time for prototypes, case changes, crystal sourcing, and on and on with wait time, shipping time back and forth, along with delays, movement shortages, bezel changes and you get the idea.
> 
> And that is if everything is done correctly and there are NO mistakes in any phase of production. People can and do make mistakes. And it could be the blue print architect, the CNC, the substitute tool and die guy filling in for a sick co worker...ect.
> 
> I am sure I am not explaining anything new to you concerning the workings of the watch industry and I am every bit a novice but I would think the artisan who creates all the pieces in his own shop from scratch would have much more control over timelines and finished products than an operation such as Bill's which sources production, parts, pieces, and manufacturers expertise from all over the world. Definitely a time consuming endeavor in my mind.
> 
> One thing worse than not having a timeline is not being able to guarantee and deliver on the timeline given. Take Sinn with their new 140A Space Chrono. They decided to develop a replacement for the Lemania 24 hour chrono movement which was used in the original 142 (I think that is the model number) that the German Astronaut took into "OUTER SPACE".
> 
> The article I read said Sinn did not put a timeline on the development of this new movement but even they were somewhat surprised that it took 7-8 years to create their new 24 hour Chronograph Calibre. And this is a very accomplished watch manufacture.
> 
> So, yes, I think I will have to agree that watches are a different animal when it comes to creating a new design or in the case of MKII reworking a classic vintage design.


----------



## Chromejob

sierra11b said:


> There aren't any grapes and that's the point. Heck, there never were any vines!
> 
> Look, I'm not trying to make anyone mad here and I certainly did not expect someone to flaunt their collection of MKIIs that have no meaning to me whatsoever...
> 
> I just come here on occasion to witness the inevitable breaking point of everyones' patience.


That's where you are mistaken. The Kingston project completed successfully, another member isn't "flaunting," just showing that it DID come to fruition.

Since MKIIs "have no meaning to me whatsoever," your other statements are IMHO just mean-spirited trolling. Don't bother. Welcome to my Ignore List.


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## White Tuna

Chromejob said:


> That's where you are mistaken. The Kingston project completed successfully, another member isn't "flaunting," just showing that it DID come to fruition.
> 
> Since MKIIs "have no meaning to me whatsoever," your other statements are IMHO just mean-spirited trolling. Don't bother. Welcome to my Ignore List.


Exactly. Saying that they are a pipe dream insinuates that they do not exist. Mine do. I cannot prove any others exist but I certainly believe they do. The money I have tied up in the Project GMT is not even a consideration for me. The fact that it is such a concern for someone not even involved with the project who states this has no meaning to them but came in and actively posts to let us know this has no meaning to them seems odd to me.

BTW a new Kingston just sold for around $1,700 so there still seems to be some people interested in them.

But I appreciate the time you took to come here and let us all know that you do not care. I think this is the closest I have ever been to Facebook.

"Sierra11B status: Does not care about MKII watches. Really. Just mentioning it so you know how little I care."


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## sierra11b

See this is exactly my point about the lineage. Because it's a sponsored forum I'm trolling BUT if someone asked my opinion in a MkII thread outside of this forum -or- in another watch forum altogether wouldn't the fact I've owned two Mkii (Seafighter, LRRP) and actually showed real interest in Project 300 by placing a deposit at some point have merit? It's not like I'm coming here with the same lurk response showing off my Rolex watches and taunting everyone. For this reason I view it as any other conversation on watches just as we witness WIS banter in the public forum. 

I guess I took White Tuna's response the wrong way but I'm still trying to find the P300 and GMT in his picture...


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## White Tuna

sierra11b said:


> See this is exactly my point about the lineage. Because it's a sponsored forum I'm trolling BUT if someone asked my opinion in a MkII thread outside of this forum -or- in another watch forum altogether wouldn't the fact I've owned two Mkii (Starfighter, LRRP) and actually showed real interest in Project 300 by placing a deposit at some point have merit? *It's not like I'm coming here with the same lurk response showing off my Rolex watches and taunting everyone. *For this reason I view it as any other conversation on watches just as we witness WIS banter in the public forum.
> 
> I guess I took White Tuna's response the wrong way but I'm still trying to find the P300 and GMT in his picture...





sierra11b said:


> I was one of them. Held onto the deposit for a months and saw the writing on the wall given the Kingston which prompted me to get my deposit refunded immediately.
> 
> Been a looooong time since I checked the MkII forum because I've simply lost interest... To be honest I come here just as more of a lesson in psychology of those still waiting for something that's likely to never happen. I just don't understand the waits as I've waited for custom work of a completely different hobby/genre where the maker delivered a completely sole authorship piece (meaning all parts of the item were made from scratch by the maker) in less than 2years; 6months before the estimated delivery period for the particular piece.
> 
> Granted that wasn't a watch but given that Yao is essentially assembling parts and insuring QC the wait should be far less. *To put it in perspective I've saved and purchased two watches around $8K and am about a month away from my first Dornbluth delivery since I pulled my Project 300 deposit*. Best move I've ever made in not having my monies tied-up in a pipe dream.


And you said I am _flaunting_ my modest collection of watches? Thanks for letting me know you have Rolex's though?

As for the GMT I do not have it yet. I cannot say I do not think about it but I am never concerned about it. If people had to have everything immediately I wonder where the world would be now? Why would we even need watches in a world of now? Would we have finely aged wines and scotches? Why not just eat the grapes or grains? I would go far as to suggest that the ability to plan ahead is one of the things that separates us from the other animals. YMMV.


----------



## sierra11b

It was only my intention to address the fact that my money tied-up in P300 -- and MKII in general because of Yao's questionable customer service to repair my LRRP bezel two times -- was put away for a case of nicely aged Barbaresco that I could drink and enjoy today. It's remarkable to read that people here will be willing to wait 5 years for an over-oaked Chardonnay. Maybe I should open a winery and market it here?


I do agree we live in a world of instant gratification... But why on earth would you pay for cold stale moldy pizza when you can get it 30 minutes or it's free? $1700 isn't chump change by any means... That's a lot of piping hot pizzas or one really nice pizza with all the toppings!

I won't let the door hit me on my way out of this forum but may stop by two years from now for a good laugh. Good luck to all of you deposit holders expecting watches!


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## White Tuna

sierra11b said:


> It was only my intention to address the fact that my money tied-up in P300 -- and MKII in general because of Yao's questionable customer service to repair my LRRP bezel two times -- was put away for a case of nicely aged Barbaresco that I could drink and enjoy today. It's remarkable to read that people here will be willing to wait 5 years for an over-oaked Chardonnay. Maybe I should open a winery and market it here?
> 
> I do agree we live in a world of instant gratification... But why on earth would you pay for cold stale moldy pizza when you can get it 30 minutes or it's free? $1700 isn't chump change by any means... That's a lot of piping hot pizzas or one really nice pizza with all the toppings!
> 
> I won't let the door hit me on my way out of this forum but may stop by two years from now with a good laugh. Good luck to all of you deposit holders expecting watches!


I did not think my Kingston was cold moldy pizza and I know neither cost me $1,700? I wish you luck wherever you go to to let people know you do not care and thank you for caring for my money. I appreciate it.


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## es335

What's the anticipated release date for Project 300?


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## Arthur

Guys, I believe that sierra has some valid points, and everyone is welcome to his opinion,whether it coincides with ours or not. Also I know some of you folks weren't here 3+ years ago when the Kingston threads were red hot!! There were quite a few unhappy campers around back then.Some folks gave up, which created opportunities for others.That's how I managed to get my non-date Kingston in the second order group. At this stage of the game, I believe that everyone that get's into a preorder buy, knows that it's going to be a long drawn out process. If they don't, I believe that they didn't read and keep up with the previous projects.

Bill runs his shop different from some of the other "boutique" watch companies that are in the same general price range. Basically, they design a watch, get it through the development stages,and then turn everything over to a Swiss assembler.The watches arrive here in the USA, get a cursory inspection, and are packed up and shipped. They are able to deliver a lot of watches in a reasonably short period of time. Bill on the other hand choses to get personally involved with every watch, which slows the process down considerably, but when you get your watch, you know it's going to be as right as he can make it.

And to answer the previous posters question,I don't believe any dates have even been discussed.Could be the end of 2013, or the end of 2014, we'll all know when Bill announces a date.


----------



## artefact0

Arthur said:


> Guys, I believe that sierra has some valid points, and everyone is welcome to his opinion,whether it coincides with ours or not. Also I know some of you folks weren't here 3+ years ago when the Kingston threads were red hot!! There were quite a few unhappy campers around back then.Some folks gave up, which created opportunities for others.That's how I managed to get my non-date Kingston in the second order group. At this stage of the game, I believe that everyone that get's into a preorder buy, knows that it's going to be a long drawn out process. If they don't, I believe that they didn't read and keep up with the previous projects.
> 
> Bill runs his shop different from some of the other "boutique" watch companies that are in the same general price range. Basically, they design a watch, get it through the development stages,and then turn everything over to a Swiss assembler.The watches arrive here in the USA, get a cursory inspection, and are packed up and shipped. They are able to deliver a lot of watches in a reasonably short period of time. Bill on the other hand choses to get personally involved with every watch, which slows the process down considerably,
> 
> 
> 
> but when you get your watch, you know it's going to be as right as he can make it.
> 
> 
> 
> Q.E.D.|>
Click to expand...


----------



## pjw

Interesting that there are lynch mobs gathering for ***** after a year but no-one's saying much after three years with this one. Just saying.......


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## trecool

how long does it take to get a Dufour? Good things come to those who wait. ;-)


----------



## Yao

pjw said:


> Interesting that there are lynch mobs gathering for Olivier after a year but no-one's saying much after three years with this one. Just saying.......


What can I say...we are fortunate to have understanding customers and we are progressing as quickly as we can. So unless you got a stake in this project I'd rather get on with it rather than replying to "thinking out loud" messages like this.


----------

