# Authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory- Seagull 1963 304 watches



## Monkey_like_watch

Hello all,

There have been a few posts recently showing Seagull 1963 watches. 
*You must understand that these "Seagull 1963" were not made by the Tianjin Seagull Factory in Tianjin. *
They are reproductions made in Guangdong.
I have spoken to an AD of Tianjin Seagull watches about this issue, and he is the one who confirmed these watches were not made at Tianjin Seagull Factory.

How do you know you have a real Tianjin Seagull Factory Seagull 1963 304 watch:

1. The authentic Seagull 1963 304 will come in a Seagull zippered case with an extra NATO strap, and a Seagull instruction booklet.

2. An authentic Tianjin Seagull watch will have "Seagull" on the case back.

3.. The watch will come with a QR code sticker on the case back to authenticate the watch on Seagull's official Wechat store on the Wechat app.* This is the most important thing!*
(This is not true for the first limited edition Tianjin Seagull Factory Sea-gull 1963 304's as they were produced before June 2017, but I have examples of what those watches look like linked below. These are for reference for anyone buying a used limited edition.)

If your Sea-gull 1963 doesn't come with a QR code on the back then it is a not an authentic Tianjin Seagull watch. Or you can call it a replica or reproduction watch. 
*But...don't expect the watch to have the QC or build quality of an authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory watch.
*
I will not post photos of the Guangdong version. There are many photos of those watches out there to view. The most obvious difference are the case backs. An authentic Sea-gull will have Sea-gull written on the case back.

Here are photos of authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory Seagull 1963 304 watches(2018 limited edition version) 
*If your watch doesn't look like this then it didn't come from Tianjin Seagull Factory. It is a replica. 
*
The Sea-gull zippered case, NATO strap and instruction booklet for the authentic version:









The authenticating QR code:









The dial of an authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory 304 limited edition:









The case back of an authentic Tianjin Seagull 1963(2018 version) The other versions from Sea-gull will also have Sea-gull on the back and a limited edition number (see the links below):









Another version of an authentic Tianjin Seagull 1963 304. Notice the case back with the Sea-gull name and limited edition number:
Limited Edition Seagull D304 Chronograph Reissue ? East Watch Review

and another authentic Tianjin Seagull that was sold on WUS forum. Again, notice the case back with the name Sea-gull, the limited edition number and the zippered case (which is similar to the 2018 case):
https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/seag...tch-limited-edition-1963-reissue-3521618.html

*I hope this will help everyone in their quest for an authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory watch. *


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## Monkey_like_watch

On a final note:
I am not here to question the QC or build quality of these non-Seagull watches; I just want to educate the public on my research.
Although if you read other threads you will see that members have experienced QC issues and misinformation with the reproduction/replica versions.


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## Sergei T.

From what I know and seen on the internet those are the editions I'm aware of:

1. Sea-Gull early edition of 1963 chronograph - found on EOL Outlet (Kevin)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Chi...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.281.48ef3c00XroGWi

2. Sea-Gull 38 & 42mm late edition
My Seagull 1963 buying adventure - TickTickTickTick

3. HKED - Ed's edition - ED63 (*non Sea-Gull*)
https://www.hkedwatches.com/

4. The latest edition from Sea-Gull - 
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.6.56aa13129Pee7k

In my private opinion three first might be without QRCode (HKED edition for sure since it was not related to Sea-Gull production) which means could be easily 'faked' so should be bought from AD/Official Store or directly from the owner - HKED ;-)


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## Monkey_like_watch

Sergei T. said:


> 2. Sea-Gull 38 & 42mm late edition
> My Seagull 1963 buying adventure - TickTickTickTick


Thanks for the research Sergei.

Your #2 is the HK version by Thomas as stated by Chascomm in another thread.
These don't appear to be the Tianjin Seagull watches, but watches made for Seagull Hong Kong possibly by another factory as they don't say Sea-gull on the watches.

The most obvious difference between the versions is the small hands on the watches. 
The two Tianjin Seagull Factory watches have different small hands than the other examples you have shown.
I am just stating this for reference.

My OP was only about authentic Tianjin Seagull Factory made 304's and not the different variations, but thanks again for the post and showing the different variations so that others can see the differences.


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## mythless

I kind of wish they would remake/reproduce another re-issue of the D304, I really like the dauphine hands.


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## Monkey_like_watch

mythless said:


> I kind of wish they would remake/reproduce another re-issue of the D304, I really like the dauphine hands.


I agree. I am a big fan of dauphine hands.

Speaking of 1963 and dauphine hands. I just recently acquired a 1963 Omega Constellation 168.001 "Jumbo" (37mm) with dauphine hands.

I know it isn't a CMW, but it was an Omega made for the Asian market. I will add an "Off Topic" tag just to be safe.


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## mythless

Nice looking Omega!

Getting back on topic: I would highly recommend any 1963 variants directly off HKED. I know he did say he does test them before he ships them out to make sure they are working properly. Plus, they are not as expensive as genuine Seagull but, I am sure HKED's quality is just as equal.


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## Monkey_like_watch

Ok, this is interesting. I have been searching old threads and came across a thread started by Ron, AlbertTime. 
The thread can be read in full here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/albe...h-clock-collectors-private-museum-861261.html

These watches are in the private Tianjin Watch and Clock Museum.

From the thread I have found out that these are what WUS member gigfy is calling the "Modern 1963 re-issue and Tianjin Sea-Gull D304 re-issue". In post #16.









These are the originals made in the early 1960's:









Most notable on the Modern 1963 example in the museum is the different indices from the HK version(which has "cut out" indices centers). 
Seen here:
My Seagull 1963 buying adventure - TickTickTickTick

Also, although the HK version has similar dial arrangement with small hand on the left and big hand on the right, it looks different than the other 1963's that have it popped up with the small hands flipped. 
As seen here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/cool-strap-option-seagull-1963-a-4867265.html


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## Victorv

Hello Monkey like Watch

What do you think about this Seagull?










Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk


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## Temujin

So I found these two on TaoBao:

First one seems to be the original limited edition for around $440, and second one is one of the replica ones with identical spec, but for around $150.
Curious, is there any real difference between them?

Replica seems to say that they are using an updated ST1901 movement, not sure what was updated about it (google translate is not perfect unfortunately).

Original link
Replica link


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## Temujin

Also, all the replica listings actually state that they are replicas. Seems Taobao doesn't allow to sell them as authentic Seagull ones (good to know platform has developed since last time I used it years ago). Seagull listings state "reissue"


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## Monkey_like_watch

Victorv said:


> Hello Monkey like Watch
> 
> What do you think about this Seagull?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk


Hello Victor,

It looks good, I like the NATO strap. Did it come with that strap? Where did you score the watch?

That might have a Seagull movement, but it isn't a Tianjin Seagull watch. I have seen this version before, and it looks just like the WatchUnique version.

These are verily the same watch that was created by Thomas in HK, and most likely made at the factory in Shenzhen with the Seagull ST19 movement. (I am merely speculating)

WatchUnique states their 1963 comes in a tin but this one looks like it comes in a different display box. I have seen a similar display box from a Taobao seller in HK too. 
Here is a link to WatchUnique's 1963.
https://www.watchunique.com/featured/seagull-1963-display.html

I wish they would call these watches: Tianjin 304, or even Prototype 304. The use of the name Seagull just confuses the buyer These watches were made between 1963-1966 when the company was called Tianjin Watch Factory; the name didn't change to Seagull until 1974.

I think Tianjin 304 or Prototype 304 sounds like a pretty cool name.
What do you think?


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## Victorv

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Hello Victor,
> 
> It looks good, I like the NATO strap. Did it come with that strap? Where did you score the watch?
> 
> That might have a Seagull movement, but it isn't a Tianjin Seagull watch. I have seen this version before, and it looks just like the WatchUnique version.
> 
> These are verily the same watch that was created by Thomas in HK, and most likely made at the factory in Shenzhen with the Seagull ST19 movement. (I am merely speculating)
> 
> WatchUnique states their 1963 comes in a tin but this one looks like it comes in a different display box. I have seen a similar display box from a Taobao seller in HK too.
> Here is a link to WatchUnique's 1963.
> https://www.watchunique.com/featured/seagull-1963-display.html
> 
> I wish they would call these watches: Tianjin 304, or even Prototype 304. The use of the name Seagull just confuses the buyer These watches were made between 1963-1966 when the company was called Tianjin Watch Factory; the name didn't change to Seagull until 1974.
> 
> I think Tianjin 304 or Prototype 304 sounds like a pretty cool name.
> What do you think?


Hello Monkey like watch

First of all thanks for your opinion, the watch came with that NATO strap, and i buy the watch aroud two years ago from a guy here in Spain, the watch was second hand, so i don't know where the watch was sold at first.

I don't know who is Thomas from HK haha, he mounted non original Seagull 1963?

So, in your opinion i have a not original Seagull 1963? Nearly the same as the watches that are made in Tianjin, but with parts made in other factories independents from Seagull?

Sorry for my English

Bests

Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk


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## aeroman5

Thanks for this. I had assumed the watch on watchunique.com was the 'real' Seagull as it had the 2 lines of Chinese text which said Tianjin Watch Factory. It's good to finally find where to buy the 'original' version of this. It appears most of the reviewers don't have the 'real' Seagull version though. I wonder if it is really worth the difference in price, nearly US $300.

I wonder why Seagull don't try and make this more available to the Western market, as it's much easier to find the 'non-original' version online than the actual Seagull.


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## redcow

This is my watchunique version from about 7 or 8 years ago. Never a problem and runs flawlessly. I opted for the solid case back because I feel it is more faithful to the original. Given the variety of versions and that they all seem to
use the same movement, I'd suggest that prospective buyers choose the version that most appeals to them visually and stop obsessing about "originality."


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## Monkey_like_watch

aeroman5 said:


> I wonder why Seagull don't try and make this more available to the Western market, as it's much easier to find the 'non-original' version online than the actual Seagull.


It seems as though Sea-Gull does well for themselves just selling to the Chinese market. With over 1.4 billion people, it isn't hard to find buyers for your watches.

You could say the same for Fiyta-Beijing Watch Factory, Peacock, Shanghai Watch Factory, Tian Wang, and other Chinese mainland watchmakers; they all seem to do well just selling to the mainland.


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## Monkey_like_watch

redcow said:


> ...they all seem to use the same movement, I'd suggest that prospective buyers choose the version that most appeals to them visually and stop obsessing about "originality."


EDIT: These watches don't use the same movement. Some are using the ST19, while others are using the ST19 with a functioning swan neck regulator.

First, I don't think anyone here is "obsessing about originality". Perhaps you are new to f72, and you haven't seen other recent threads that have brought to light that there some online dealers that are selling questionable Sea-Gull watches.
As noted in a recent thread about the fake Sea-Gull green military watch sold by a well-known online dealer out of Shanghai. 
For a true collector of a watch brand, originality is key. Yes or no?

Although I respect your opinion, it doesn't take away from the fact that online shops are using the name Seagull to sell these watches. 
The fact is that the original Prototype 304's were actually made by Tianjin Watch Factory, and do not have anything to with Seagull except for the movement. So why call them Seagull 1963? Why not call them Prototype 304 or Tianjin 1963, which they are?
This would be like Paris making a watch called the Seiko 1985. Would that not cause confusion? (I am just using Parnis and Seiko as an example.)

Seeing as Sea-gull is the name of a well known Chinese watch brand and a well known movement then this can cause confusion to the uneducated buyer.

On a final note, I am the one who started this thread, and I will be buying an HKED ED63 version of the Tianjin 1963/Prototype 304 with an ST19 swan neck. 
People WILL buy what they want, but my desire is to educate WUS members and prospective buyers.


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## Temujin

So, if I decide to buy this watch from taobao that says 21 zuan and is 38mm with acrylic crystal, it's a replica made by another factory, with the ST21 inferior movement, and might have questionable quality control? That watch is about $110 cheaper than what I see on HKED's website, trying to figure out if extra cash is worth spending. If the movement is much better, and his quality control is better too, which should lead to a watch that live work for longer, it might be. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## Monkey_like_watch

Temujin said:


> So, if I decide to buy this watch from taobao that says 21 zuan and is 38mm with acrylic crystal, it's a replica made by another factory, with the ST21 inferior movement, and might have questionable quality control? That watch is about $110 cheaper than what I see on HKED's website, trying to figure out if extra cash is worth spending. If the movement is much better, and his quality control is better too, which should lead to a watch that live work for longer, it might be.


I wouldn't call the movements inferior; it is just different than HKED's ST19.
HKED's watches come with a one year warranty. Does the Taobao seller's watch come with a warranty?
I would message the Taobao seller and ask them questions about the product and the warranty offered.

Here is what I have learned since starting this thread:

The watches sold on Taobao and other international websites are "authentic" watches in the sense that they are all replicas of the Prototype 304/ Tianjin Watch Factory 1st Aviation chronograph watch from the 1960's.
(but these watches are built to different specs with different movements-some have panda dials, some have cream colored or black or green or blue dials, some have silver hands, some have gold hands, some have silver indices some have gold, some are 38mm some are above 40mm, some have ST19 movements, some have modified ST19 movements, but all the movements are Seagull movements.)

The Tianjin Seagull Watch Group has made two "limited edition" versions of the Prototype 304/Tianjin Watch Factory 1st Aviation chronograph from the 1960's that have the name SEA-GULL on the watch case back.

The point of this thread was to educate members/buyers of the difference.

I will repeat myself again, I personally don't agree with international online stores calling their watch the "Seagull 1963" because that is misleading to the buyer even though the watch doesn't say Seagull the websites are calling it Seagull 1963. Not cool!

On a final note, HKED calls his watch the HKED ED63, I have great respect for HKED for not jumping on the "Seagull 1963" bandwagon.


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## Chascomm

Just to be clear, the ST21 movement is a clone of the ETA 2824-2 design; an automatic non-chronograph. The ST19 is a hand-winding chronograph. They are in no way interchangeable.

Regarding the 1963 style watch; whether the dial shows a jewel count of 19 or 21 jewels, the movement is the same ST19 with the same number of jewels.


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## Monkey_like_watch

Chascomm said:


> Just to be clear, the ST21 movement is a clone of the ETA 2824-2 design; an automatic non-chronograph. The ST19 is a hand-winding chronograph. They are in no way interchangeable.
> 
> Regarding the 1963 style watch; whether the dial shows a jewel count of 19 or 21 jewels, the movement is the same ST19 with the same number of jewels.


Thanks, I edited my posts per this information. I think I read 21 jewels and thought it said ST21. That was my mistake. 
But there are modified versions of the ST19, yes?


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## Chascomm

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Thanks, I edited my posts per this information. I think I read 21 jewels and thought it said ST21. That was my mistake.
> But there are modified versions of the ST19, yes?


I have seen different styles of finish used on ST19 movements for various markets, besides the basic stripes, and Ed has just shown his swan-neck modification, not to mention some custom inscriptions that I've seen; so it would seem that Sea-Gull is willing to customize the movement slightly for clients who wish to pay for it.

And besides all that there are the different movement variants with additional sub-dials, etc. Not that I've seen any functional variants used for 1963 style watches.


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## Sergei T.

Monkey_like_watch said:


> People WILL buy what they want, but my desire is to educate WUS members and prospective buyers.


I believe providing the hard to get/translate anything from China is the best thing to do, then it's a personal decision when and from whom to buy the watch, so I'm glad to learn such a lot of information from someone who is obsessive with Sea-Gull and Chinese watch market like you ;-)


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## Monkey_like_watch

Sergei T. said:


> I believe providing the hard to get/translate anything from China is the best thing to do, then it's a personal decision when and from whom to buy the watch, so I'm glad to learn such a lot of information from someone who is obsessive with Sea-Gull and Chinese watch market like you ;-)


Thank you for the kind words, Sergei. I am learning along the way too.


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## redcow

OK, points taken. I was not aware of the number of "fake" Sea-Gull watches being sold nor the variations in movements and I thank you for pointing that out. I'm not sure that this was the case when I bought mine 7 or so years ago. In addition, I was never under the impression that my example was a true "Sea-Gull" and I agree that calling these watches as such is unethical at least. However, I was able to rationalize my purchase because nowhere on the watch itself does "Seagull" appear and the purchase turned out to be an attractive and relible instrument. 
In conclusion, I bow to your superior knowledge of this particular timepiece and regret not reading the entire thread before posting. Live and learn!


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## Chronopolis

Very educational. Thanks, Monkey-like-watch.


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## Monkey_like_watch

redcow said:


> OK, points taken. I was not aware of the number of "fake" Sea-Gull watches being sold nor the variations in movements and I thank you for pointing that out. I'm not sure that this was the case when I bought mine 7 or so years ago. In addition, I was never under the impression that my example was a true "Sea-Gull" and I agree that calling these watches as such is unethical at least. However, I was able to rationalize my purchase because nowhere on the watch itself does "Seagull" appear and the purchase turned out to be an attractive and relible instrument.
> In conclusion, I bow to your superior knowledge of this particular timepiece and regret not reading the entire thread before posting. Live and learn!


Redcow,

No worries. I understand where you are coming from.

This thread has been an educational journey for me too.

I am glad to hear that you have gotten many good years out of your 1963, and I hope it will last you for many more years.

Cheers, 
M_L_W


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## cchu518

Still deciding over this or a Dan Henry tool watch


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## sweat100

Looking to get one of this. May I know where you purchased yours?


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## Monkey_like_watch

sweat100 said:


> Looking to get one of this. May I know where you purchased yours?


I sent you a PM.


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## Mads Larsen

redcow said:


> This is my watchunique version from about 7 or 8 years ago. Never a problem and runs flawlessly. I opted for the solid case back because I feel it is more faithful to the original. Given the variety of versions and that they all seem to
> use the same movement, I'd suggest that prospective buyers choose the version that most appeals to them visually and stop obsessing about "originality."
> 
> View attachment 13812397
> View attachment 13812399


That is a very nice bracelet, that seams to fit the watch quite well. May I ask where you got that?


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## Solotov

Mads Larsen said:


> That is a very nice bracelet, that seams to fit the watch quite well. May I ask where you got that?


Seconding this, i'm almost exclusively a bracelet guy. Such a pain having to find an aftermarket bracelet to fit onto something like this.


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## cuthbert

So, is this new "official release" as big as the D304 (36.5mm) or the other "unofficial" versions?

And in 2017 in the Shanghai Seagull boutique you could already find both, the "unofficial" without the fancy packaging.


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## Monkey_like_watch

cuthbert said:


> So, is this new "official release" as big as the D304 (36.5mm) or the other "unofficial" versions?
> 
> And in 2017 in the Shanghai Seagull boutique you could already find both, the "unofficial" without the fancy packaging.


Well, you wouldn't have been able to find the new Limited Edition version (819.17.1963) in 2017 as it just came out in at the end of 2018. I just saw one in person at the Sea-Gull store near Xintiandi priced for 5000rmb. Yes, 5000rmb!
This version:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...3u6Xo7&id=580958115868&ns=1&abbucket=4#detail

AFAIK, this is the first time Tianjin Sea-Gull has made this style of the 304. They had a silver dial version that was an LE that was put out a few years ago, but it looked much different than this version.
The measurements on the 819.17.1963:
case diameter: 38MM thickness: about 13MM


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## Sergei T.

I'm curious to see the 42mm HKED version as it should be something unusual for 1963/304 Project but with the modern size adaptation


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## cuthbert

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Well, you wouldn't have been able to find the new Limited Edition version (819.17.1963) in 2017 as it just came out in at the end of 2018. I just saw one in person at the Sea-Gull store near Xintiandi priced for 5000rmb. Yes, 5000rmb!
> This version:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...3u6Xo7&id=580958115868&ns=1&abbucket=4#detail
> 
> AFAIK, this is the first time Tianjin Sea-Gull has made this style of the 304. They had a silver dial version that was an LE that was put out a few years ago, but it looked much different than this version.
> The measurements on the 819.17.1963:
> case diameter: 38MM thickness: about 13MM


No, I am telling you back then (I lived in SH for one year) they had the D304 and this one next to each other, the former at 6000rmb, the latter at 4800rmb.

Pretty sure as in that boutique I bought my Dong Feng for 2200rmb.


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## Monkey_like_watch

cuthbert said:


> No, I am telling you back then (I lived in SH for one year) they had the D304 and this one next to each other, the former at 6000rmb, the latter at 4800rmb.
> 
> Pretty sure as in that boutique I bought my Dong Feng for 2200rmb.


I am not here to argue with you, but the facts are the facts: the 819.17.1963 limited edition was just released in 2018. 
It just became available.

Here is the translated title listing on Tmall:
Seagull watch 819.17.1963 aviation chronograph 304 flight code table 2018 re-enactment limited edition manual

Here is more evidence of someone in China talking about the 819.17.1963 being released soon on the "China Domestic Table Forum" and the post was made on 11/11/18:
??819.17.1963?????????2018?55???????,?????,????? - ?????

If you can show any evidence that the 819.17.1963 was available before the fall of 2018 I would like to see it, please.


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## Sullivanjt

Looking at longislandwatch.com they seem to have a number of the late 42mm and 38mm models in stock - has anyone had experience buying something like this from them? Are they pretty good at authenticating what they have, or am I just as likely to pick up something inauthentic? Link to what I'm talking about:

https://www.longislandwatch.com/Seagull_1963_Chronograph_p/6345g-2901.htm


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## mythless

The ones from longisland are not from Seagull but from Red Star. Longisland is a reputable store.


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## exactopposite

mythless said:


> The ones from longisland are not from Seagull but from Red Star. Longisland is a reputable store.


Are you sure abut that? They are listed as "Seagull 1963 Airforce Watch"

https://www.longislandwatch.com/Seagull_1963_Airforce_Watch_s/1903.htm


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## Chascomm

If I had a dollar for every incorrect attribution of Sea-Gull in a sales listing that I have seen, I could probably afford to buy another 1963 chrono.


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## Monkey_like_watch

exactopposite said:


> Are you sure abut that? They are listed as "Seagull 1963 Airforce Watch"
> 
> https://www.longislandwatch.com/Seagull_1963_Airforce_Watch_s/1903.htm


FYI, if the watch doesn't say Sea-Gull on the actual watch case then it isn't a Tianjin Sea-Gull.


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## Danfried

cuthbert said:


> No, I am telling you back then (I lived in SH for one year) they had the D304 and this one next to each other, the former at 6000rmb, the latter at 4800rmb.
> 
> Pretty sure as in that boutique I bought my Dong Feng for 2200rmb.





Monkey_like_watch said:


> I am not here to argue with you, but the facts are the facts: the 819.17.1963 limited edition was just released in 2018.
> It just became available.
> 
> Here is the translated title listing on Tmall:
> Seagull watch 819.17.1963 aviation chronograph 304 flight code table 2018 re-enactment limited edition manual
> 
> Here is more evidence of someone in China talking about the 819.17.1963 being released soon on the "China Domestic Table Forum" and the post was made on 11/11/18:
> ??819.17.1963?????????2018?55???????,?????,????? - ?????
> 
> If you can show any evidence that the 819.17.1963 was available before the fall of 2018 I would like to see it, please.


It's not just Cuthbert who saw a 1963 FKJB in a Shanghai Sea-Gull AD; I remember three years ago forum member Gak buying one there, with counterweights on both subdial hands, just like the 819.17.1963. The caseback was different, though:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/1963...h-dongfeng-seagull-shop-shanghai-2857914.html
Check out the FKJB tag for 5600 RMB, and the Seagull collector case.
(Scroll down for the post with a photo of the caseback.)

The explanation is simple. I seem to recall HKEd claiming that the 1963 FKJB was not actually made by Sea-Gull -- it was contracted out to another manufacturer but sold by Sea-Gull. Perhaps this new reference 819.17.1963 with the new caseback is the first version of the 1963 to be actually made by Sea-Gull and not contracted out.

If you want to verify this explanation, check with HKEd. I'm just relaying this second-hand.


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## Monkey_like_watch

Danfried said:


> It's not just Cuthbert who saw a 1963 FKJB in a Shanghai Sea-Gull AD; I remember three years ago forum member Gak buying one there, with counterweights on both subdial hands, just like the 819.17.1963. The caseback was different, though:
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/1963...h-dongfeng-seagull-shop-shanghai-2857914.html
> Check out the FKJB tag for 5600 RMB, and the Seagull collector case.
> (Scroll down for the post with a photo of the caseback.)
> 
> The explanation is simple. I seem to recall HKEd claiming that the 1963 FKJB was not actually made by Sea-Gull -- it was contracted out to another manufacturer but sold by Sea-Gull. Perhaps this new reference 819.17.1963 with the new caseback is the first version of the 1963 to be actually made by Sea-Gull and not contracted out.
> 
> If you want to verify this explanation, check with HKEd. I'm just relaying this second-hand.


My point was the 819.17.1963 is a new watch and I am sticking with that.


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## [email protected]

Thanks. I just bought one with a display caseback and sapphire crystal. It's a great novelty watch for the money ($350). 
Would not consider a manual wind chrono without display back. Certainly not buying it for the "quality". 
Not even sure the "original" one shown with the hard case has any better quality.


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## sweat100

After reading this thread, I have pulled the trigger a bought the 1963 recommended in this thread (Thanks Monkey_like_watch!). Everything arrived great. The seller was responsive and answered quite a number of questions. Link: https://m.tb.cn/h.3xhRiBa?sm=115a1c


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## Monkey_like_watch

sweat100 said:


> After reading this thread, I have pulled the trigger a bought the 1963 recommended in this thread (Thanks Monkey_like_watch!). Everything arrived great. The seller was responsive and answered quite a number of questions. Link: https://m.tb.cn/h.3xhRiBa?sm=115a1c


Congrats, Sweat.
I am glad the thread was able to guide you to the watch you wanted. 
I can see the case back applied authentication QR code in the photo, so it is a Tianjin Sea-Gull Factory made watch. 
Please post a new thread with more photos and a review.


----------



## OPChagall

Thanks much for the informative thread, MLW. There are quite a few on the subject, which attests to its popularity over time. Because of that, I have some questions, which may have been answered elsewhere, but I have not come across them yet, along with some comments:

1. I'm inclined to get a Seagull 304 with the stick hands (looks like EOL has some available), because it connects more with the history of being produced by Tianjin Seagull. Although I've read that even the 304 may have been contracted out for production, it might be reasonable to assume that the 'license' came with production requirements.

2. On the other hand, I prefer the display caseback. I'm not aware of a Seagull 304 with a display caseback though. Only the non-Seagull re-issues have that, it seems.

3. As far as approximating the original variants, I haven't come across a picture of one with the red star logo. Is the red star only a modern embellishment? The only originals I've seen come with the star trek-esque logo.

And so I find myself mired in the same journey as other 304 enthusiasts, in deciding which one to get (which is of course a good chunk of the fun). There are some on Ebay that have the Thomas/LIW variant, although I don't know if it actually originates from him or not, but the attraction is that the seller is much closer to me. I may go ahead and email Thomas himself and see what he has.

I am very attracted to the HKED reissues, because of the closer resemblance to the original logo and applied indicators. And the price is quite affordable.

But then, like I mentioned, a part of me wants a "Seagull" 304.

Ah well, just wanted to add my drop to the discussion.


----------



## Sergei T.

1. D304 is a Sea-Gull re-issue, and mine arrived from EOL - Kevin Ke, come directly from factory warehouse - old stock.
I'm not sure about outsource production of this units, but like everything in China - it indeed might be.

2. D304 has no display case back. HKED version does.

3. Red Star logo re-issue is made by another factory, not connected to Tianjin Sea-Gull except the movement.
If they source the movement directly from Tianjin Sea-Gull, maybe... I've not found any information on that.
From what I've read Thomas is taking part in Red Star production.

Anything you choose will be your choice and you're free to make it, just be aware that D304 is hard to find this days ;-) ...


----------



## OPChagall

Sergei T. said:


> 1. D304 is a Sea-Gull re-issue, and mine arrived from EOL - Kevin Ke, come directly from factory warehouse - old stock.
> I'm not sure about outsource production of this units, but like everything in China - it indeed might be.
> 
> 2. D304 has no display case back. HKED version does.
> 
> 3. Red Star logo re-issue is made by another factory, not connected to Tianjin Sea-Gull except the movement.
> If they source the movement directly from Tianjin Sea-Gull, maybe... I've not found any information on that.
> From what I've read Thomas is taking part in Red Star production.
> 
> Anything you choose will be your choice and you're free to make it, just be aware that D304 is hard to find this days ;-) ...


Right, the sheer variety of reissues make this an interesting arena of choice. After my post, I did find a couple pictures of an original 304 with the red star logo, so that answers my question on that. I think monkey_like_watches Jan 2019 thread confirmed that Seagull released a red star stick hand variant in 2018. See here. It seems to be what I see currently available on the EOL listing here.

I still come back to HKEd's variant, which is a great homage to the prototype with the star trek-esque logo.

I hope to choose something before they all run out. :-d


----------



## Sergei T.

A short note, the watch MLW & EOL refering to is different to Hong Kong/Thomas ones, see here:
My Seagull 1963 buying adventure - TickTickTickTick


----------



## OPChagall

Any thoughts on the credibility of this Amazon listing for the latest 2018 Seagull reissue. See here. The watch pics are accurate, but the pic of the box is inconsistent with what MLW sets forth in the originating post.


----------



## Monkey_like_watch

OPChagall said:


> Any thoughts on the credibility of this Amazon listing for the latest 2018 Seagull reissue. See here. The watch pics are accurate, but the pic of the box is inconsistent with what MLW sets forth in the originating post.


Apparently, the box changed after Feb. 2019. The Taobao seller(the one linked to on the early posts in this thread) for this watch stated that the box changed at that time. I do not know the reason for the change.


----------



## OPChagall

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Apparently, the box changed after Feb. 2019. The Taobao seller(the one linked to on the early posts in this thread) for this watch stated that the box changed at that time. I do not know the reason for the change.


Thanks for pointing that out. I checked out the Taobao listing and am not able to translate most of the text, but the picture shows a white box with an illustration of seagulls, clouds and an ocean. The Amazon listing has the same box form, but it is a plain blue. I wonder if the boxes may not be uniform now.


----------



## OPChagall

In reference to my previous post, here's the Taobao pic of the box and Seagull letter:

















And here is the box pic from the Amazon listing:


----------



## Monkey_like_watch

OPChagall said:


> In reference to my previous post, here's the Taobao pic of the box and Seagull letter:
> 
> And here is the box pic from the Amazon listing:


My two cents:
Be cautious of that Sea-Gull on Amazon. Jade Cat, the seller, just launched their store and has had zero reviews.
I would either go through EOL or the Taobao seller before buying on Amazon.


----------



## OPChagall

Monkey_like_watch said:


> My two cents:
> Be cautious of that Sea-Gull on Amazon. Jade Cat, the seller, just launched their store and has had zero reviews.
> I would either go through EOL or the Taobao seller before buying on Amazon.


Good points. I sent an email to Jade Cat for good measure on what is included in the package, like the QR code sticker/tag.

Edit: But I'm almost certainly not throwing money in that direction.


----------



## stevarad

OPChagall said:


> Good points. I sent an email to Jade Cat for good measure on what is included in the package, like the QR code sticker/tag.
> 
> Edit: But I'm almost certainly not throwing money in that direction.


Did You get any answer?

Послато са SM-N950F уз помоћ Тапатока


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## OPChagall

stevarad said:


> Did You get any answer?
> 
> Послато са SM-N950F уз помоћ Тапатока


No. I will definitely post if I get a response.


----------



## OPChagall

Would anyone care to post a pic of the movement for an official Seagull D304/1963 reissue? I've only seen the non-Seagull reissues, since those are the only ones with display case backs. It would be interesting to compare.


----------



## OPChagall

My Seagull 1963 arrived today from EOL! I'll take pics when I get home (incl. of the movement), but for now, I can say that it came in the blue Seagull box with the extra Nato strap, instruction booklet, and QR codes on the box sticker and case back.

That was quite fast. 6 days from payment to the goods in hand, Hong Kong to California. I am quite impressed by that (and DHL).

I've read in another thread that processing the QR code requires using WeChat, which I will do later.


----------



## OPChagall

So, I didn't get the zippered leather-like Seagull bag, but I'll survive. Just to update this thread on what one may get from ordering the (2018) limited edition Seagull 1963 reissue, specifically from the EOL outlet on AliExpress, here are the pics.


----------



## OPChagall

Okay, here are some shots of the ST1901. It's great to see the use of the other (Star Trek-esque) logo on the chronograph bridge. Might someone translate the Chinese text?


----------



## Monkey_like_watch

OPChagall said:


> Okay, here are some shots of the ST1901. It's great to see the use of the other (Star Trek-esque) logo on the chronograph bridge. Might someone translate the Chinese text?


Nice pics.

Here is the translation-

The top row of characters next to the numbers: 中国空军 --- China Air Force

The bottom row of characters: 天津手表厂 ---Tianjin Wristwatch Factory


----------



## OPChagall

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Nice pics.
> 
> Here is the translation-
> 
> The top row of characters next to the numbers: 中国空军 --- China Air Force
> 
> The bottom row of characters: 天津手表厂 ---Tianjin Wristwatch Factory


Thanks, MLW.


----------



## Danfried

Wow OPChagall, it's very cool that Sea-Gull's version of the 1963 has that engraving on that bridge of the ST19. It's too bad they didn't go with a display caseback to show it off!

It makes me wonder if earlier rumours are true -- that Sea-Gull keeps the best versions of its movements for its own watches.


----------



## Monkey_like_watch

Danfried said:


> Wow OPChagall, it's very cool that Sea-Gull's version of the 1963 has that engraving on that bridge of the ST19. It's too bad they didn't go with a display caseback to show it off!
> 
> It makes me wonder if earlier rumours are true -- that Sea-Gull keeps the best versions of its movements for its own watches.


I think you might be right about this Danfried.


----------



## OPChagall

Danfried said:


> Wow OPChagall, it's very cool that Sea-Gull's version of the 1963 has that engraving on that bridge of the ST19. It's too bad they didn't go with a display caseback to show it off!
> 
> It makes me wonder if earlier rumours are true -- that Sea-Gull keeps the best versions of its movements for its own watches.


Interesting. I wasn't aware of that rumor. I will be ordering HKEd's display back. It is showing as sold out on his website, but I checked with him, and he said he'll be getting more in the next week.


----------



## xxtrem3

I am currently pondering to get the authentic or the replica version.
Is it worth it to get the original seagull 1963 ?
I mean it's like thrice the amount of a replica.


----------



## mythless

xxtrem3 said:


> I am currently pondering to get the authentic or the replica version.
> Is it worth it to get the original seagull 1963 ?
> I mean it's like thrice the amount of a replica.


Subjective, if money is the issue, I would look toward HKED's version. But, if you really want an original Sea-Gull version, then you may have to pony up the extra cash.


----------



## bearwithwatch

Got a query out of sheer morbid curiosity, and decided to write here instead of a new thread.

Tianjin Seagull Factory and HKED seagull 1963 are about 37.5/38mm. Now I see 42mm variants as well. Evidently, they seem to be replicated watches. Is there any reliable seller for 42mm?

Anything under 39mm appears small on my wrists.


----------



## Sergei T.

bearwithwatch said:


> Got a query out of sheer morbid curiosity, and decided to write here instead of a new thread.
> 
> Tianjin Seagull Factory and HKED seagull 1963 are about 37.5/38mm. Now I see 42mm variants as well. Evidently, they seem to be replicated watches. Is there any reliable seller for 42mm?
> 
> Anything under 39mm appears small on my wrists.


I also feel the same when usually wearing Anonimo watches and then switch to 38mm D304, but found a solution - bigger strap


----------



## vintorez

Could someone please school me on the different original versions that existed? Which are prototypes? Which, if any, were issued? Were there different military/civilian variants? These are the ones I've managed to find so far:







































Are there any more?


----------



## caktaylor

bearwithwatch said:


> Got a query out of sheer morbid curiosity, and decided to write here instead of a new thread.
> 
> Tianjin Seagull Factory and HKED seagull 1963 are about 37.5/38mm. Now I see 42mm variants as well. Evidently, they seem to be replicated watches. Is there any reliable seller for 42mm?
> 
> Anything under 39mm appears small on my wrists.


Long Island Watch
https://www.longislandwatch.com/Seagull_1963_Airforce_Watch_s/1903.htm

Poljot 24
https://www.poljot24.de/en/marken/seagull.html

I purchased a 42mm from Poljot24.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Chascomm

bearwithwatch said:


> Now I see 42mm variants as well. Evidently, they seem to be replicated watches.


I'm not sure what you mean by "replicated watch" unless you mean a non-Sea-Gull watch being described by sellers as a Sea-Gull watch. So far as I recall, Sea-Gull have never made a 42mm 1963-style watch.


----------



## Dankoh69

Just arrived today! Should have d discovered this thread before buying.. Very nice piece nonetheless..


----------



## Sergei T.

FYI -

On my last trip to Nanning (https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/nanning-green-city-4997301.html) I've contacted *Kevin Ke* from 'EOL Outlet' on AliX (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1168318) for information about Authentic Sea-Gull stores in the city, to check maybe he knows or can get that information directly from Sea-Gull marketing dept.
Unfortunately *Kevin* is not more in charge for 'EOL Outlet' and has been moved on... but as he said still proudly wears his Sea-Gull Ocean Star diver b-)
So the store I've bought 3 Sea-Gull authentic watches from is now have a new owner...

AliX will have in a couple of days a massive sale festival so I checked maybe there is something interesting for me and found Official Sea-Gull Store here :-d
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5117082

Digging deeper I've contacted them and here are their answers about authenticity, in blue -


----------



## bearwithwatch

Noticed that poljot24 as well as a seller in ebay got these colors. 
Never saw them before, and they are without Startrek/Avengers monogram


----------



## Monkey_like_watch

bearwithwatch said:


> Noticed that poljot24 as well as a seller in ebay got these colors.
> Never saw them before, and they are without Startrek/Avengers monogram


Yep!
Those look like the Red Star version. I have seen this type for sale on Taobao in China.


----------



## AlbertaTime

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Yep!
> Those look like the Red Star version. I have seen this type for sale on Taobao in China.


Those Red Star versions are Thomas designs. I met with Thomas at CWCF 2019 in Shenzhen. More coming in an upcoming post. (And please excuse my terrible photo-fu)


----------



## Qidamin

Are Thomas and Ed working together? WI was wondering as Poljot was also selling Ed's version but not made by Ed. And this Red Star version also seems to use the same dial and hands as Ed's versions.


----------



## Danfried

These Red Star versions look nice but I'm just going to note that they don't seem to have concentric rings on the subdials like HKEd's.


----------



## Qidamin

They have, it is not very obvious on these pictures, I have seen others and the subdials are like Ed's ones.


----------



## Danfried

Qidamin said:


> They have, it is not very obvious on these pictures, I have seen others and the subdials are like Ed's ones.


Ah, you're right. I really had to blow up the pictures to see them.

From the website:


----------



## chief-diversity-officer

First off, I'm glad to have found this thread before ordering  That said, I found that another seller on aliexpress, called Watch Outlet Store, is also selling what appears to be a very similar one to the one sold by EOL Outlet. Can anyone shed any light on this?


----------



## AlbertaTime

chief-diversity-officer said:


> First off, I'm glad to have found this thread before ordering  That said, I found that another seller on aliexpress, called Watch Outlet Store, is also selling what appears to be a very similar one to the one sold by EOL Outlet. Can anyone shed any light on this?


Could you provide a link? And: Welcome to F72, the WUS Chinese Mechanical Watch forum!


----------



## chief-diversity-officer

AlbertaTime said:


> Could you provide a link? And: Welcome to F72, the WUS Chinese Mechanical Watch forum!


Seems I need more posts before I can embed links. Just search "Seagull 1963" on Aliexpress and you'll find it as one of the top 2 results.


----------



## stevarad

Here it is (watch outlet store):

https://m.aliexpress.com/store/v3/h...ellerId=234530478&spm=null&pagePath=index.htm

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


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## stevarad

And here it is "Sea-gull official store". Does anybody knows who they are?

https://m.aliexpress.com/store/v3/h...ellerId=239065225&spm=null&pagePath=index.htm

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


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## stevarad

And this is TSH store. Also selling sea-gull (or somerhing they call sea-gull) among other brands....


Confusion in my had...Is EOL still offering real sea-gull? What is " Sea-gull official store" on Ali? Who are the others?

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## Sergei T.

EOL Outlet store was running Kevin Ke, I purchased from him and can confirm I've got an authentic D304.
Asked Kevin in past about 'Watch Outlet Store' and he said they're partners and sale same sourced goods.

Official Sea-Gull AliX site - https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/auth...atches-4867821-post49692479.html#post49692479


----------



## stevarad

Sergei T. said:


> EOL Outlet store was running Kevin Ke, I purchased from him and can confirm I've got an authentic D304.
> Asked Kevin in past about 'Watch Outlet Store' and he said they're partners and sale same sourced goods.
> 
> Official Sea-Gull AliX site - https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/auth...atches-4867821-post49692479.html#post49692479


Yes, I saw that post few days earlier, but still was confused.

So, as I understand, Alix is generating name, according to their rules, and there is no chance that someone can use " Sea-gull official store" name if it isn't really official sea-gull store?

If it is true, that is very good info!!

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## DIL

Late to the party; thanks all for the info. Really benefits an ST19 newb like me 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## Monkey_like_watch

I hope Ron doesn't mind I am posting this here-

This was just posted in the CMW forum (f72) here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/thom...es-china-watch-clock-fair-2019-a-5040623.html

Please go to this article to hear about EDITED: how the history of the 1963 re-issue happened according to Thomas Leung of Red Star watches, as compiled from his interview with Ron (AlbertaTime)"
https://www.amchpr.com/cwcf2019_redstar.html

Major points in the discussion with Thomas per Ron's interpretation:

1) Start: While Mr. Leung was working for Tsinlien, he saw the original worn by the Sea-Gull executive, and offered a new strap.
2) While Mr. Leung had had the original for strap exchange--he showed a friend from Germany who really liked it.
3) Mr. Leung took the original back to the owner and had Tsinlien build 19 re-issues, using the Tianjin Sea-Gull 1901 movement. That was the first run.
4) Collectors in Germany reacted very well 
5) The second run was also while working at Tsinlien, but a larger run, 180 watches but limited edition.
6) After that, Mr. Leung realized the watch was becoming famous and left for his own business in 2010, using his own suppliers and facilities for some parts, so I understand, and still buying Tianjin Sea-Gull movements from Tianjin Sea-Gull, with Tianjin Sea-Gull's knowledge.
7) Tianjin Sea-Gull started making a version much later than Tsinlein or Mr. Leung. From what Mr. Leung said, I gathered, so many people went to Tianjin Sea-Gull asking how do we get Sea-Gull 1963 watches that, finally, Tianjin Sea-Gull itself decided there was enough market for them to produce them directly; they waited till demand required much larger production runs.


----------



## Dasu

So how many replica factories are there exactly? Someone mentioned one in Guangzhou. Are all the distributors sourcing from there? Apparently the main distributors for the "original" replica (excluding HKed ones) are Long Island, Watch Unique, Poljot24, and this mysterious Thomas (if you can obtain his gmail address). They all have very different price points. Looking at the basic model, Watch Unique has it at €156,20 (non-EU), while Poljot24 is at €275.00 and Long Island at $329. What gives?


----------



## AlbertaTime

Dasu said:


> ... and this mysterious Thomas (if you can obtain his gmail address.)


Thomas isn't "mysterious" and his direct email is provided, along with his full business card contact info, at the bottom of my interview article from when we met this summer.

https://www.amchpr.com/cwcf2019_redstar.html


----------



## hked

bearwithwatch said:


> Noticed that poljot24 as well as a seller in ebay got these colors.
> Never saw them before, and they are without Startrek/Avengers monogram


These are basically copies of my ED63 watches colour schemes with a different logo and triangular, instead of square, indices. Not sure why, but Thomas didn't think I would mind if he 'borrowed' and modified my designs. After a lengthy phone call, I agreed to let him continue using the green colour scheme, but not the blue one.

Here are the colour schemes from my watches. I would like to reiterate that my ED63 watches are only sold by me through email or my web store (see my username) and I'm not affiliated with any other sellers.












































The Cream dial (from Ron's post) is also a blatant copy of my Cream Panda. Looks like another phone call is in order. 








My versions. Photos courtesy of fazfrench.


----------



## hked

Qidamin said:


> Are Thomas and Ed working together? WI was wondering as Poljot was also selling Ed's version but not made by Ed. And this Red Star version also seems to use the same dial and hands as Ed's versions.


Thomas is the manufacturer of my ST1901-based watches and we worked together on a number of WUS project watches.


----------



## AlbertaTime

hked said:


> These are basically copies of my ED63 watches colour schemes]


Your versions and color schemes are wonderful--but you already know I love 'em 

But I want to tell you that your beautiful photos just taught me something important about good watch photography. Thank you.


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

New addition to my collection (and my first Sea-Gull);

Apologies for the Tissot in this post but I've tried several times to remove its image and it insists on joining the party.


----------



## Chascomm

AardnoldArrdvark said:


> Apologies for the Tissot in this post but I've tried several times to remove its image and it insists on joining the party.


That was weird, but I've managed to fix it for you.


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

Chascomm said:


> That was weird, but I've managed to fix it for you.


Thankyou.

All that seemed to happen when I tried to remove it was that it switched its position in the sequence; after the third attempt I decided to let it stay as it obviously really wanted to be in the post!


----------



## watchcrank_tx

AlbertaTime said:


> Your versions and color schemes are wonderful--but you already know I love 'em
> 
> But I want to tell you that your beautiful photos just taught me something important about good watch photography. Thank you.


Not to take anything away from Ed's photos, but his watches themselves are so naturally photogenic that not only was the best watch photo I've ever taken something I just threw together in my truck one day against the backdrop of my old leather coat on a cloudy day, the photo was evidently good enough for it to be lifted without attribution by several sites around the web, where I come across it periodically when I'm reading about ST1901 movements. :-d

Truly a gorgeous, gorgeous watch.


----------



## hked

AlbertaTime said:


> Your versions and color schemes are wonderful--but you already know I love 'em
> 
> But I want to tell you that your beautiful photos just taught me something important about good watch photography. Thank you.


Thank you, Ron.

I wish I had the skill to take such beautiful photos - most were taken by fazfrench. You taught me a lot about photography, remember? ?


----------



## hked

watchcrank said:


> Not to take anything away from Ed's photos, but his watches themselves are so naturally photogenic that not only was the best watch photo I've ever taken something I just threw together in my truck one day against the backdrop of my old leather coat on a cloudy day, the photo was evidently good enough for it to be lifted without attribution by several sites around the web, where I come across it periodically when I'm reading about ST1901 movements. :-d
> 
> Truly a gorgeous, gorgeous watch.
> 
> View attachment 14516765


Thank you and your photo is much better than mine 

I hope you still wear it once in a while.


----------



## bearwithwatch

hked said:


> Thank you and your photo is much better than mine
> 
> I hope you still wear it once in a while.


Question out of morbid curiosity: Is there any plan to release quartz version of this watch. As in keeping the visual aesthetics untouched but powered by a quartz movement (Miyota 6S21?).
or would this be too distasteful?


----------



## watchcrank_tx

hked said:


> I hope you still wear it once in a while.


I do, reasonably often. It's the perfect watch when I'm wearing suit or sportcoat but think I'll want to time something. b-)

Incidentally, the timegrapher I bought last year confirms the impression I'd had before that this watch runs very well. |>


----------



## AlbertaTime

hked said:


> You taught me a lot about photography, remember? &#55357;&#56842;


I don't recall that I taught you "a lot" ;-)

We learn from each other, and now I learn from fazfrench


----------



## AlbertaTime

watchcrank said:


> I do, reasonably often. It's the perfect watch when I'm wearing suit or sportcoat...


I just noticed your terrific strap choice. Big thumbs up.


----------



## Evil Minion

AardnoldArrdvark said:


> New addition to my collection (and my first Sea-Gull);
> 
> Apologies for the Tissot in this post but I've tried several times to remove its image and it insists on joining the party.
> 
> View attachment 14514437


Did the chrono hand and the minute counter align back up once you ran the chronograph? Or is that where they reset to every time??


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

Evil Minion said:


> Did the chrono hand and the minute counter align back up once you ran the chronograph? Or is that where they reset to every time??


Yes they did reset correctly after I ran the chronograph.


----------



## ztkavc

Hello,


I have recently ordered the Seagull 1968 watch from the official Seagull store at the Aliexpress.
When I opened the beige-brown box I found that beside watch and an extra green nylon strap there were no Instruction Manual and no Warranty card. The watch came with attached QR code and looked genuine with a proper engraved solid case back. But still, I became suspicious, so I verified the watch with QR code. Thankfully the watch is genuine and is made by Seagull.
After I ask the store about missing manual and warranty card they said that they do not include printed versions anymore and they offered me the more ecologically friendly PDF versions by email. Also, the warranty is valid from the date of purchase as they wrote.
I find it quite strange policy as the watch was not that cheap after all.


Best regards, Zoran


----------



## stevarad

ztkavc said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have recently ordered the Seagull 1968 watch from the official Seagull store at the Aliexpress.
> When I opened the beige-brown box I found that beside watch and an extra green nylon strap there were no Instruction Manual and no Warranty card. The watch came with attached QR code and looked genuine with a proper engraved solid case back. But still, I became suspicious, so I verified the watch with QR code. Thankfully the watch is genuine and is made by Seagull.
> After I ask the store about missing manual and warranty card they said that they do not include printed versions anymore and they offered me the more ecologically friendly PDF versions by email. Also, the warranty is valid from the date of purchase as they wrote.
> I find it quite strange policy as the watch was not that cheap after all.
> 
> Best regards, Zoran


Well, we live in new eco something world. It will be more and more of this, no matter of the cost and money

And I find their explanation, for this particualre situation, very good. Why to cut tree and make paper manual, when there is PDF.

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## stevarad

Forgot to mention, This watch also arrived to me yesterday, and no paper manual inside. So, it seems they are consistent in new policy.









Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## lzlbreak

congrats on new arrival! My order from Aliexpress is still on its way, and the waiting game is tough on this one


----------



## Trondeh

It looks nice @stevarad. I have had my eye on that watch myself. May I ask for more pictures? 

Sent fra min CLT-L29 via Tapatalk


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## Danfried

I can understand ztkavc's disappointment at the lack of any printed materials, in particular the warranty card. But to be honest, I've never needed to actually consult any of my watch instruction manuals, and I have to approve a more eco-friendly policy (even if reducing costs was the primary motive). I have to say I wish Omega -- with their freaking giant watch boxes -- and other watch manufacturers would follow their example!

My G-Shock Rangeman has a lot of functions, but even for that watch, I relied on Youtube tutorials instead of trying to read the giant manual.


----------



## stevarad

Trondeh said:


> It looks nice @stevarad. I have had my eye on that watch myself. May I ask for more pictures?
> 
> Sent fra min CLT-L29 via Tapatalk


Here you are. Follow link to the thread where you have more photos.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...&share_fid=13788&share_type=t&link_source=app

Послато са SM-N950F помоћу Тапатока


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

ztkavc said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have recently ordered the Seagull 1968 watch from the official Seagull store at the Aliexpress.
> When I opened the beige-brown box I found that beside watch and an extra green nylon strap there were no Instruction Manual and no Warranty card. The watch came with attached QR code and looked genuine with a proper engraved solid case back. But still, I became suspicious, so I verified the watch with QR code. Thankfully the watch is genuine and is made by Seagull.
> After I ask the store about missing manual and warranty card they said that they do not include printed versions anymore and they offered me the more ecologically friendly PDF versions by email. Also, the warranty is valid from the date of purchase as they wrote.
> I find it quite strange policy as the watch was not that cheap after all.
> 
> Best regards, Zoran


My recent Sea-Gull purchases also came without a printed manual. They're not the only ones; I just took delivery of a Ball Trainmaster Standard Time 135 Anniversary (what a mouthful of a name) which was a lot more expensive than both my Sea-Gull's put together and this didn't have printed manuals (although they did include them on a DVD in the box).


----------



## Desk-bound

ztkavc said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have recently ordered the Seagull 1968 watch from the official Seagull store at the Aliexpress.
> When I opened the beige-brown box I found that beside watch and an extra green nylon strap there were no Instruction Manual and no Warranty card. The watch came with attached QR code and looked genuine with a proper engraved solid case back. But still, I became suspicious, so I verified the watch with QR code. Thankfully the watch is genuine and is made by Seagull.
> After I ask the store about missing manual and warranty card they said that they do not include printed versions anymore and they offered me the more ecologically friendly PDF versions by email. Also, the warranty is valid from the date of purchase as they wrote.
> I find it quite strange policy as the watch was not that cheap after all.
> 
> Best regards, Zoran


That certainly seems austere compared to the sheer amt. of goodies I have gotten from Aidophedo, as well as my Tevise T-860 Quartz Chrono.
But this has been long coming for Sea-gull.
They had been planning this move towards no-paper & recycable packaging for years now, which should be commended.


----------



## Paddy V

I guess they're killing two birds here. Go more eco friendly which I know plenty of Chinese corporations are kind of being pushed to do to reverse the damage done by the rapid industrialisation in the last few decades. All the while saving some money on elaborate packaging and paper manuals almost no one looks at. They probably assumed it's fine for the majority of folks particularly ones looking at getting a (genuine) 1963 reissue. Their back-up option for those who do is a PDF, seems fine.

I'd still like a tangible signed warranty card to be honest though. Maybe just old fashioned that way. I'm into mechanical watches after all.


----------



## Monkey_like_watch

Paddy V said:


> I guess they're killing two birds here. Go more eco friendly which I know plenty of Chinese corporations are kind of being pushed to do to reverse the damage done by the rapid industrialisation in the last few decades. All the while saving some money on elaborate packaging and paper manuals almost no one looks at. They probably assumed it's fine for the majority of folks particularly ones looking at getting a (genuine) 1963 reissue. Their back-up option for those who do is a PDF, seems fine.
> 
> I'd still like a tangible signed warranty card to be honest though. Maybe just old fashioned that way. I'm into mechanical watches after all.


Sea-Gull hasn't issued warranty cards for some time now. The QR authentication code on the watch's case back is also the way you start the warranty on Sea-Gull's Wechat page. 
The warranty is done online through the app, so that is why warranty cards are not issued. 
I actually like having the warranty online. 
My Giant bicycle is the same way. I signed up for the warranty by using an embedded QR code that was on the bike. 
The QR code took me to an app that gave me all the specs and all the parts that were supposed to be on the bike, but it also had me sign up for the Giant warranty for the bike. 
I think this is a great idea,and I hope it is the future of warranties. (I always seem to misplace my warranties, but now they are all online and always accessible.)


----------



## Paddy V

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Sea-Gull hasn't issued warranty cards for some time now. The QR authentication code on the watch's case back is also the way you start the warranty on Sea-Gull's Wechat page.
> The warranty is done online through the app, so that is why warranty cards are not issued.
> I actually like having the warranty online.
> My Giant bicycle is the same way. I signed up for the warranty by using an embedded QR code that was on the bike.
> The QR code took me to an app that gave me all the specs and all the parts that were supposed to be on the bike, but it also had me sign up for the Giant warranty for the bike.
> I think this is a great idea,and I hope it is the future of warranties. (I always seem to misplace my warranties, but now they are all online and always accessible.)


Actually the way you describe it, it really does sound better. I more direct way for the business to authenticate warranties and get dates along with other details right. The potential for where it can go certainly encompasses more than a card with some hand written dates anyone could have done at any time.


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## il giramondo

In my view online warranties are the best way to go. It eliminates the need to file away paperwork and you have all of your information regarding the product warranty online and are able to receive notifications for product recalls or other notices.


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## Qidamin

A new version, I don't know if made by Sea-gull, I think so (saw it first on xianyu, taobao second hand stuffs app). It can be purchase in a package with shoes, jacket and case (all related to army).


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## taike

Qidamin said:


> A new version, I don't know if made by Sea-gull, I think so (saw it first on xianyu, taobao second hand stuffs app). It can be purchase in a package with shoes, jacket and case (all related to army).


for cosplay?


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## gak

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Well, you wouldn't have been able to find the new Limited Edition version (819.17.1963) in 2017 as it just came out in at the end of 2018. I just saw one in person at the Sea-Gull store near Xintiandi priced for 5000rmb. Yes, 5000rmb!
> This version:
> 海鸥手表819.17.1963复刻飞行计时码表D304手动机械表新款限量-淘宝网
> 
> AFAIK, this is the first time Tianjin Sea-Gull has made this style of the 304. They had a silver dial version that was an LE that was put out a few years ago, but it looked much different than this version.
> The measurements on the 819.17.1963:
> case diameter: 38MM thickness: about 13MM


To your original post; I think no listing of original would be complete if you do not mention FKJB and for pictures of an authentic version refer to an older review:








Review: Sea-Gull 1963 FKJB military chronograph reissue


The Sea-Gull 1963 military chronograph has become one of the most iconic and collectible Chinese mechanical watches, and for good reason. But I also think it deserves to be seen as one of the most iconic 20th century military watches from anywhere in the world - it's up there with the Blancpain...




www.watchuseek.com





I appreciate that only new from factory now available since 2018 is the 2nd (champagne dial) or I may say 3rd re-issue (including silver dial) from sea-gull.
It is great that sea-gull issued them once again and also added QR code verification so new buyers can authenticate; so a great help.

From FKJB to this version I only see:

Changed case back and now this one is a limited series. So they had to change something. Rest looks same from the pictures I saw in this thread.
They are using similar zippered case (probably leftovers from earlier D304 re-issue) as was used for the silver (only D304) at that time. FKJB on green NATO strap on usual sea-gull box if bought alone.

And I confirm @cuthbert 's claim that these FKJBs were available in sea-gull's authorized dealers even before 2018. I have seen/bought them in early 2016. 
I saw a collection of pieces in a box including Wuyi/Wuxing, DongFeng (FKDF), couple more and FKJB

Just wanted to clarify because it also means that recent reviews on social media claiming sea-gull never released an authentic version similar to FKJB before 2018 are wrong.

So rough time line as we already know the years: Originals from 60s 14000 ----> sea-gull issued commemorative D304 and FKJB some where around 2010 or earlier ----> sea-gull yet again issue FKJB and named it D304-PlanB with a new caseback limited series.

All three were listed on following website as well and now just the current edition is available.





海鸥D304planB航空计时表飞行复古码表819.17.1963 - 计时码表 - 海鸥手表官方商城sea-gullmall.com


海鸥手表官方商城系天津海鸥科技有限公司垂直b2c网站。包括多功能、纤薄、基础、女士/情侣、复刻、沃朵、设计师、陀飞轮等系列。24小时咨询热线：400-667-0088！所售商品100％正品行货、机打发票。提供专业售前售后服务,为您提供愉悦的购物体验！全国包邮。




www.sea-gullmall.com


----------



## SRM88

Monkey_like_watch said:


> I sent you a PM.


Would you mind sharing where did you buy yours? 
thanks for your extensive research on this watch, finally I don't feel lost and know what to look for.


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## Monkey_like_watch

Hello and welcome to f72,

I never bought one. I went to the Sea-Gull AD in Shanghai and tried on their version and it was too small and thick for my tastes. I have a flat writst, so anything under 40mm looks small. 
Also, it is very expensive compared to the other versions that are available. 
That being said, if was going to suggest a reissue 1963 to someone it would be the HKED or the Red Star version.

If you want a Tainjin Sea-Gull version, it can be found here-
Tianjin Sea-Gull version:








Seagull 1963 Mechanical Chronograph Watch Re-issued Edition FKJB


Item Type: Mechanical WristwatchesBand Width: 17.5mmCase Thickness: 13mmBand Length: 22cmBand Material Type: LeatherCase Shape: RoundWater Resistance Depth: 30mBoxes & Cases Material: PaperMovement: Mechanical Hand WindFeature: Water Resistant,ChronographModel Number: FKJBClasp Type...




www.seagullwatchcompany.com





My top pick because it is similar to the "original design" and HKED has a good reputation. 
HKED versions:








Collections


HKEd Watches



www.hkedwatches.com





Red Star versions:





Search results for: 'red star 1963' | Poljot 24







www.poljot24.de





There is another version that is apparently made by Tsinlien Sea-Gull. I believe this store is selling those versions::





Seagull 1963 – WatchUnique







watchunique.com







[email protected] said:


> Would you mind sharing where did you buy yours?
> thanks for your extensive research on this watch, finally I don't feel lost and know what to look for.


----------



## SRM88

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Hello and welcome to f72,
> 
> I never bought one. I went to the Sea-Gull AD in Shanghai and tried on their version and it was too small and thick for my tastes. I have a flat writst, so anything under 40mm looks small.
> Also, it is very expensive compared to the other versions that are available.
> That being said, if was going to suggest a reissue 1963 to someone it would be the HKED or the Red Star version.
> 
> If you want a Tainjin Sea-Gull version, it can be found here-
> Tianjin Sea-Gull version:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seagull 1963 Mechanical Chronograph Watch Re-issued Edition FKJB
> 
> 
> Item Type: Mechanical WristwatchesBand Width: 17.5mmCase Thickness: 13mmBand Length: 22cmBand Material Type: LeatherCase Shape: RoundWater Resistance Depth: 30mBoxes & Cases Material: PaperMovement: Mechanical Hand WindFeature: Water Resistant,ChronographModel Number: FKJBClasp Type...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.seagullwatchcompany.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My top pick because it is similar to the "original design" and HKED has a good reputation.
> HKED versions:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Collections
> 
> 
> HKEd Watches
> 
> 
> 
> www.hkedwatches.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red Star versions:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Search results for: 'red star 1963' | Poljot 24
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.poljot24.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is another version that is apparently made by Tsinlien Sea-Gull. I believe this store is selling those versions::
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seagull 1963 – WatchUnique
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> watchunique.com


thank you! Appreciate your help and research.


----------



## mech3133

Monkey_like_watch said:


> On a final note:
> I am not here to question the QC or build quality of these non-Seagull watches; I just want to educate the public on my research.
> Although if you read other threads you will see that members have experienced QC issues and misinformation with the reproduction/replica versions.


Hi there WUS Chinese watch people good day to you, based on the following link would anybody be able to take a guess on whether this is a genuine Sea-Gull 1963 from Tinjin or more of a watch built in the south? Many thanks









Seagull 1963 Chronograph 38mm Sapphire glass - Special Deal on straps!


Movement: Caliber Seagull ST19 Watchcase: stainless steel, polished Diameter:38mm Height: 14mm Bandwidth: 18mm Lug to Lug width: 47mm




www.poljot24.de


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## Monkey_like_watch

This isn't a Tianjin Sea-Gull. 
Any Sea-Gull watch from Tianjin made after 2017 will have the word Sea-Gull written on the case back and come with a QR authentication code on the case back as well. 
This could be the Tsinlien Sea-Gull though which is made by Tsinlien Sea-Gull in Hong Kong.



mech3133 said:


> Hi there WUS Chinese watch people good day to you, based on the following link would anybody be able to take a guess on whether this is a genuine Sea-Gull 1963 from Tinjin or more of a watch built in the south? Many thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seagull 1963 Chronograph 38mm Sapphire glass - Special Deal on straps!
> 
> 
> Movement: Caliber Seagull ST19 Watchcase: stainless steel, polished Diameter:38mm Height: 14mm Bandwidth: 18mm Lug to Lug width: 47mm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.poljot24.de


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## mech3133

Monkey_like_watch said:


> This isn't a Tianjin Sea-Gull.
> Any Sea-Gull watch from Tianjin made after 2017 will have the word Sea-Gull written on the case back and come with a QR authentication code on the case back as well.
> This could be the Tsinlien Sea-Gull though which is made by Tsinlien Sea-Gull in Hong Kong.


Many thanks for the advice Monkey_like_watch, that's so helpful. The watch from Poljotde.24 is a stunner plus they do it in blue as well. Yet it would be really nice to initially buy the Tianjin Sea-Gull. Your guide to checking out the case back for Sea-Gull plus the QR authentication code is really helpful, thank you. Good day too


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## ryanleewq

Hello.

I am wondering where I can get an authentic Seagull 1963 Re-issue Chronograph? Understanding that there are many replicas and imitations out there.

I have narrowed down my search to the following 2 sites. Wondering if anyone could verify that these are authentic and the same version?

Seagull Watch Company

Sea-Gull Official Store - AliExpress

Many thanks!
Ryan


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## Desk-bound

Here are some Official links if you want to be 100% certain
【海鸥机械码表】海鸥(SeaGull)手表 致敬系列航空计时表飞行复古码表D304复刻版机械男表819.17.1963【行情 报价 价格 评测】-京东 (jd.com)
海鸥表官方旗舰店1963手表航空计时飞行码表d304男表复刻版机械表-tmall.com天猫
seagull海鸥手表男机械表D304航空计时表飞行复古码表1963复刻版-tmall.com天猫


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## ryanleewq

Does the authentic Sea-Gull 1963 come with a certificate? I have noticed that other Sea-Gull watch models tend to come with a certificate.


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## Monkey_like_watch

I don't know about a certificate. I have bought many Tianjin Sea-Gull here in China and never got a certificate. What I did get was a QR authentication sticker on the watch case back. This can be authenticated by scanning the QR code with the Sea-Gull offiical WeChat app. Scanning this code also activates the warranty period.



ryanleewq said:


> Does the authentic Sea-Gull 1963 come with a certificate? I have noticed that other Sea-Gull watch models tend to come with a certificate.


----------



## jwsallen

Anyone one out there own both a 1963 from the Sea-Gull Official Store and a Red Star 1963 from a reputable dealer (Long Island, Poljot24, etc.)? Is the Sea-Gull Official Store version really that much nicer than the Red Star (or whatever) version? I do like the Official version's dial more, but I don't know if I like it enough to pay the premium over a Red Star. Maybe I'll wait and see if the Official Store has a nice 11.11 sale this year.


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## jwsallen

^nvm. I said screw it, and bought one from seagullwatchcompany.com, YOLO. I'll probably make a separate thread when it gets here. Reasoning on getting this vs. something else: both subdial hands are the same length, I like the two lines of characters on the bottom of the dial, there isn't a dumb looking star on the crown, I like the solid caseback, it's legit from the Sea-gull factory, and I know what I'm getting (all these various reissues and brands were too confusing).


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## TransporterG

Enjoy!


----------



## hanshananigan

About 5 years ago I had a Seagull-branded Aqua Terra homage. Bought it from good-stuffs or similar website. I learned later that it was not in the seagull catalog. The word on the street was that it was actually manufactured in a Seagull factory for another company. Yup, Seagull making fake Seagulls.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


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## HoustonReal

hanshananigan said:


> About 5 years ago I had a Seagull-branded Aqua Terra homage. Bought it from good-stuffs or similar website. I learned later that it was not in the seagull catalog. The word on the street was that it was actually manufactured in a Seagull factory for another company. Yup, Seagull making fake Seagulls.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


Sea-Gull of Singapore was having these "special models" produced, possibly without the company's permission. They also made a Seiko Cocktail Time homage. Long Island watch was also selling them.


----------



## AardnoldArrdvark

jwsallen said:


> ^nvm. I said screw it, and bought one from seagullwatchcompany.com, YOLO. I'll probably make a separate thread when it gets here. Reasoning on getting this vs. something else: both subdial hands are the same length, I like the two lines of characters on the bottom of the dial, there isn't a dumb looking star on the crown, I like the solid caseback, it's legit from the Sea-gull factory, and I know what I'm getting (all these various reissues and brands were too confusing).


Sorry; I hadn't checked this thread for a while. Yes I have a genuine Sea-Gull version and a Red Star too.

Why? Well I wanted to get the genuine one because of the historical context and as I couldn't track one down so got a Red Star 42mm Sapphire version from Poljot24. Needless to say shortly afterwards I managed to order a Sea-Gull version too.

I don't think there's a significant difference in quality between them and I wear the Red Star version more often. The Sea-Gull at 38mm is a bit small on my 20,5cm wrist (but still wearable); I guess in part I tend to wear the Red Star version because it's cheaper and I reserve the Sea-Gull for spacial occasions!

So unless anyone specifically wants and is prepared to pay a premium for a genuine Sea-Gull version I think the Red Star or (as @Monkey_like_watch has previously suggested) the HKED versions would be the ones to go for.


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## jwsallen

^Appreciate the response. I'm still glad I went all out and got the "legit" version for the reasons I listed. I'll definitely pick up a Red Star sapphire panda at some point.


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## Chascomm

hanshananigan said:


> About 5 years ago I had a Seagull-branded Aqua Terra homage. Bought it from good-stuffs or similar website. I learned later that it was not in the seagull catalog. The word on the street was that it was actually manufactured in a Seagull factory for another company. Yup, Seagull making fake Seagulls.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


Over on the Russian forum we recently had somebody denounce certain Vostok models exclusive to Meranom as 'fake'. Can we please agree that a manufacturer producing specific models of their own brand for an authorised distributor is not faking.


----------



## GoneSquatchin

This has been an interesting read. I'm happy I've waited on purchasing a 1963 for some time since now I have a better understanding of them. Gotta decide now on which one I'll end up getting. I appreciate all the effort from everybody in this thread.


----------



## hanshananigan

Chascomm said:


> Over on the Russian forum we recently had somebody denounce certain Vostok models exclusive to Meranom as 'fake'. Can we please agree that a manufacturer producing specific models of their own brand for an authorised distributor is not faking.


Your point is well taken. Do we know that Seagull SG was authorized by Seagull to sell those branded Aqua Terra homages? I didn't get closure on that but the website has changed or is gone.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


----------



## Chascomm

hanshananigan said:


> Your point is well taken. Do we know that Seagull SG was authorized by Seagull to sell those branded Aqua Terra homages? I didn't get closure on that but the website has changed or is gone.


I don't recall if it was ever proved that Sea-Gull Singapore exceeded the terms of their contract in ordering Sea-Gull badged homages from Sea-Gull's OEM division. Certainly those kinds of designs seem out of keeping with the brand direction at the Tianjin head office.


----------



## Z06Biker

Currently in this dilemma myself - to buy a "replica" 38mm 1963 from www.seagull1963.org, or to spend significantly more for the "legit" version direct from www.seagullwatchcompany.com. I can't imagine the quality difference can be that huge, so it sort of just comes down to knowing if you can live with it being not the real thing, or if it _has_ to be the real thing (and if all else is equal, what is the "real thing" anyway?).


----------



## Okapi001

Chascomm said:


> Over on the Russian forum we recently had somebody denounce certain Vostok models exclusive to Meranom as 'fake'. Can we please agree that a manufacturer producing specific models of their own brand for an authorised distributor is not faking.


Absolutely. But we have zero evidence that those Seagull "aqua terras" were actually manufactured by the Seagull. Great watches, btw, I have a couple. ;-)


----------



## jwsallen

Z06Biker said:


> Currently in this dilemma myself - to buy a "replica" 38mm 1963 from www.seagull1963.org, or to spend significantly more for the "legit" version direct from www.seagullwatchcompany.com. I can't imagine the quality difference can be that huge, so it sort of just comes down to knowing if you can live with it being not the real thing, or if it _has_ to be the real thing (and if all else is equal, what is the "real thing" anyway?).


I just got the "real deal" in the mail from seagullwatchcompany.com. I don't have another version to compare it to (above, AardnoldArrdvark says the quality difference isn't that significant between Sea-gull and Red Star), but the watch is absolutely gorgeous. I'd probably be second guessing myself if I didn't get this version, so I'm glad I ponied up the extra couple hundred bucks. I'll end up with a "non-legit" panda version one of these days.


----------

