# Kenneth Cole Skeleton--Seagull Movement?



## CuriousG (Jan 25, 2008)

I believe this is a seagull movement that is the same as the one in the Armitron skeleton. Can anyone tell me which movement this is?

And here is a Seagull with the identical skeleton movement:










Thanks.


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## CuriousG (Jan 25, 2008)

I wasn't clear there. It appears to be the identical movement that is in the armitron. It does handwind and hack. Someone mentioned the ST16. When i looked at pics of it, it looks very different. For these skeletons, do the take a standard movement like the ST16 and alter/decorate it elaborately? 

If whomever is able to ID this could provide a photo of the movement, that would be helpful.


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## CuriousG (Jan 25, 2008)

Also while we're at it, how about in the Stuhrling Delphi? Can some one ID this one?


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## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

If you can find them, post the movement numbers. They probably will start with TY-27XX or TY-28XX. Maybe others, but since they all are not 'complicated' (no day/night, day/date, moon phase, pwr reserve, etc....) I think they are probably the 27 or 28.

TY-28XX = Seagull ST16
TY-27XX = Seagull ST17

Check out this post that has links to a couple Seagull sites. They have good pictures of the movements there. In this post, Chascomm talks about the ST16 & 17 movements. Use the search tool to find hours of reading on Seagull and other Chinese movements.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
gigfy


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## CuriousG (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks for your reply gigfy.

I only own the Kenneth Cole. I think I read somewhere that the ST16 is the one that hacks and winds, which my Kenneth Cole does. Since it is skeletonized, the movement to my uneducated eyes, looks nothing like the 16 or 17. Do the skeletonized movements have completely different model numbers or are they just considered variations on the main ones like S16 or ST17?

Would I need to pull the case back off to see the numbers you mentioned, or should I be able to see it with a loupe through the display back? I don't currently have a loupe or a tool to open the back.

I'm still hoping that someone will be able to ID it from the seagull pic I attached up there. It is definitely the same movement as in the Kenneth Cole, though it is harder to see in their photo.



gigfy said:


> If you can find them, post the movement numbers. They probably will start with TY-27XX or TY-28XX. Maybe others, but since they all are not 'complicated' (no day/night, day/date, moon phase, pwr reserve, etc....) I think they are probably the 27 or 28.
> 
> TY-28XX = Seagull ST16
> TY-27XX = Seagull ST17
> ...


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## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

I dont know if the TY or ST movement codes are on the movements or not. Some brands put the TY code on the caseback. The Armitron skeleton has it. Most of the time it is printed in the for sale add.

I should have mentioned that the ST16 & ST17 movements have many variants. Go to a few of the Seagull websites and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Cheers,
gigfy


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

CuriousG said:


> I believe this is a seagull movement that is the same as the one in the Armitron skeleton. Can anyone tell me which movement this is?
> 
> And here is a Seagull with the identical skeleton movement:
> 
> ...


Sea-Gull ST17. This is Sea-Gull's basic time-only skeleton automatic. They also do a hand-wind.

Small Sea-Gull skeletons are ST6, and there are skeltons available of the ST19 chronograph and ST80 tourbillon.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

CuriousG said:


> Also while we're at it, how about in the Stuhrling Delphi? Can some one ID this one?


This movement is from the Hangzhou watch factory. The design is based on the old Seiko 7009, ancestor of the current Seiko and Orient movements. Stuhrling were for a couple of years selling watches with Hangzhou movements identified as 'Lexus', initially I suspect to obscure their Chinese origins. There were quality issues at that time. No doubt the Hangzhou/PTS partnership will encourage a quality improvement.


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## CuriousG (Jan 25, 2008)

Chascomm said:


> Sea-Gull ST17. This is Sea-Gull's basic time-only skeleton automatic. They also do a hand-wind.
> 
> Small Sea-Gull skeletons are ST6, and there are skeltons available of the ST19 chronograph and ST80 tourbillon.


Thanks for your help Chascomm.

I'm excited to be closing in on finding out what's in my watch.:-! I was unclear from what you posted. The one in both pics of the Kenneth Cole and the Seagull I think is exactly the same, though I haven't already handled the seagull watch to know for sure about size. Did you think it is the ST 17 or the ST 6?


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

CuriousG said:


> Thanks for your help Chascomm.
> 
> I'm excited to be closing in on finding out what's in my watch.:-! I was unclear from what you posted. The one in both pics of the Kenneth Cole and the Seagull I think is exactly the same, though I haven't already handled the seagull watch to know for sure about size. Did you think it is the ST 17 or the ST 6?


Hmm... :think: Now you mention it, the Kenneth Cole does not look quite like the Sea-Gull catalogue photo of the ST17. Still it is the best match I can find


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## CuriousG (Jan 25, 2008)

Chascomm said:


> Hmm... :think: Now you mention it, the Kenneth Cole does not look quite like the Sea-Gull catalogue photo of the ST17. Still it is the best match I can find


Is the Seagull skeleton above pictured in the catalog? Does it mention what it is or show a movement that looks like it?


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

CuriousG said:


> Is the Seagull skeleton above pictured in the catalog? Does it mention what it is or show a movement that looks like it?


In case you haven't seen this before, I recommend this link:

http://www.tjseagull.com/jx.asp


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## CuriousG (Jan 25, 2008)

Chascomm said:


> In case you haven't seen this before, I recommend this link:
> 
> http://www.tjseagull.com/jx.asp


Thanks. I didn't notice that some of the movement numbers had multiple pages. There are a couple of ST17 ones that have some differences, but share major portions of design arrangement. It's as close as I've seen with a bare movement.

I'm hoping to eventually spot that skeleton watch in the pic with the white dial on a seagull page and simply see the movement number listed.


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## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

According to the new EU Seagull website (thanks stuffler,mike :-!), I believe the Seagull skeleton is a ST16.

Model 8000-SL-2807 (I assume the 2807 = TY-2807).










Cheers,
gigfy


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## CuriousG (Jan 25, 2008)

gigfy said:


> According to the new EU Seagull website (thanks stuffler,mike :-!), I believe the Seagull skeleton is a ST16.
> 
> Model 8000-SL-2807 (I assume the 2807 = TY-2807).
> 
> ...


Gigfy, thanks for finding out and posting. I appreciate it.


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## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

No problem. Glad to help.

Cheers,
gigfy


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## korolev (Sep 27, 2008)

how about this kc's model?










i am considering this watch for my gf. =)

is this an st6 since i vaguely read that it's used in smaller sized watches.

thank you.


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## chansigril (Nov 5, 2008)

have a similar question about my stuhrling winchester automatic skeleton. according to what i have found, it lists the movement as "st-90089" which i take to be a seagull movement, but have had difficulty finding any information about this movement.

pic of the watch for reference:










any help appreciated


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## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

chansigril said:


> have a similar question about my stuhrling winchester automatic skeleton. according to what i have found, it lists the movement as "st-90089" which i take to be a seagull movement, but have had difficulty finding any information about this movement.
> 
> pic of the watch for reference:
> 
> ...


I believe it is a PTS-Hangzhou 2000 series (thanks Chascomm)

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=161504

Cheers,
gigfy


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