# Cjiaba = Fake?



## chanwengyan

Hi all,

I'm new to Russian watch. I saw this brand -- CJIABA, they claim themselves is RUSSIAN watch and selling in the bay at affordable (or consider CHEAP?) price tag. 

I did a search of "cjiaba" in the forum and I see many forummers saying that its a FAKE SLAVA from china, and its not related to any Russian watch company. I have been email to Slava watch company few days ago, but still not receive any reply from them yet.

I would like to clearify few things here:
1. Cjiaba is a FAKE watch from china? or its a HOMAGE watch?
2. I knew some forummer having Cjiaba watch, may I know how is the quality of the watch? how is the finish (at its price tag)? how accurate is the (mechanical) movement? 

Any opinion / comment / review are welcome. Thanks 

- WengYan -


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## Militarywatchdude

Slava produced watches in the Soviet Union. They were inexpensive but decent timepieces. The current Slava brand is Chinese. I would not consider their watches homages.


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## Silas

I bought one of the Cjiaba watches on ebay for $65. Shipped from Ukraine by Viktor. It was a white faced auto. It is very nice and runs well!
Ebay informed me that they took Viktor off of ebay. Didn't tell me why. I received the watch anyway and am quite pleased with it.
I guess I was lucky!


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## Chascomm

Militarywatchdude said:


> Slava produced watches in the Soviet Union. They were inexpensive but decent timepieces. The current Slava brand is Chinese. I would not consider their watches homages.


Not quite true. Slava still run a small assembly operation in new premises in Moscow, using authentic Slava movements. However the parts stocks must surely be almost exhaused by now, especially as they sold a quantity of ebauches to an American company a few months ago.

There was also a brief run of less than a year during the chaos of leaving the old 2nd Moscow Watch Factory site, in which Slava comissioned Chinese watches manufactured with the genuine Slava badges. These were produced to a higher standard than the Slava Sozvesdie watches, which have been made independent of Slava.


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## michele

Chascomm said:


> Not quite true. Slava still run a small assembly operation in new premises in Moscow, using authentic Slava movements. However the parts stocks must surely be almost exhaused by now, especially as they sold a quantity of ebauches to an American company a few months ago.
> 
> There was also a brief run of less than a year during the chaos of leaving the old 2nd Moscow Watch Factory site, in which Slava comissioned Chinese watches manufactured with the genuine Slava badges. These were produced to a higher standard than the Slava Sozvesdie watches, which have been made independent of Slava.


I add that there was recently an incredible quantity of watches on the German Ebay, all with automatic, original Russian Slava movements (2416, 2427) fitted in Asian cases, sold with the "Cavadini" and "Gadison Stern" brands (i own one of them) . 
The quantity was so huge, that i suppose that the stock of old movements, as Chascomm says, is almost totally empty now.

Just for the record, i want to add also that the infamous Komandirskie/Generalskie copies made by Slava Sozvezdie (or related factories) are around again. That company, as already known, is know for making a lucrative use of a "modified" brand with own Chinese products (that's barely legal). But it produced real fakes too. See this watch:




























this is an original:










Although it's easy for a semi-expert eye to recognize the fake, the difference cannot be easily spotted by a newbie's eye IMHO. I had one of those copies in my hands, they have a very thin acrylic crystal (thick on the original), spring-loaded crown (no spring on the original), domed caseback (flat on the original). They are made also with red star or other dials, and at first sight they have a very close resemblence. Of course, this post is intended just as warning for the purchaser (i have seen again this fake yesterday, it had disappeared for some time), because there are too many subjects interested in speculations about "fake" watches and i don't want to fight again against those subjects - it's not my duty now. Anyway, this is a _real_ fake.


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## Melnyk

i like how they even use that "3" that kind of looks like the vostok's "b"


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## colt

hmmm maybe these have lume... ;-)


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## James Haury

I was going to pose the same question regarding cjiaba since it is already under discussion, does anyone know about ORKINA?


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## fireal

James Haury said:


> I was going to pose the same question regarding cjiaba since it is already under discussion, does anyone know about ORKINA?


made-in-china watch


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## roo7

Orion has such background too ?



> Orion: Brand Information
> Updated 23 Nov 2008 by Editor, RussianWatchGuide.com
> 
> Orion manufactures a range of inexpensive mechanical and quartz watches, including some of the least expensive skeleton watches on the market today.
> 
> This company first started making watches under the Orion brand in 1999. Watches are assembled in Moscow but generally use movements, cases and bands made in Hong Kong.


http://www.russianwatchguide.com/orion.htm


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## Melnyk

they sould all be melted down and forged into pie plates and false teeth.


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## James Haury

I actually like my Orion.I just wish I could find a replacement for the sticker on the bezel.


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## chanwengyan

thanks for the great information you guys (ladies) provided. :-!

I am waiting for more and more info about Cjiaba and (perhaps it has) relationship with Slava.

thanks again :thanks


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## luk

chanwengyan said:


> thanks for the great information you guys (ladies) provided. :-!
> 
> I am waiting for more and more info about Cjiaba and (perhaps it has) relationship with Slava.
> 
> thanks again :thanks


If you see word: CJIABA on a dial it means that you see a kind of chinese fake. In original russian or soviet watch you should see the word: SLAVA. Chinese CJIABA is rather a good watch. It shows correct time. But it is not original russian production.


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## dedatos

I would like to add that IMHO the SLAVA zavod has produced very good watches and had a tradition of exchellence as it was among the first Moscow factories to produce watches known then under the name 2nd Moscow watch factory. There is even a STRELA chronometer produced by 2MWF. Not to say the least about the beautiful big and accurate CTART or the 'grail' Transistor Watch figuring in Mark Gordon's site -a unique copy of the Bulova Accutron. SLAVA automatics are good watches -simply complicated for the masters to fix them easily so a bit 'difamated' because often when going for srvice they were a headacke for a bad master. All my SLAVAS run to the perfection and they have among the most 'daring' dials too whle very often their bodies are voluminous and nearly fitting todays fachion....!
It is a pity that the factory disappears and the brand is fading-out. They become increasingly rare to find


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## ecalzo

luk said:


> If you see word: CJIABA on a dial it means that you see a kind of chinese fake. In original russian or soviet watch you should see the word: SLAVA. Chinese CJIABA is rather a good watch. It shows correct time. But it is not original russian production.


i agree....:-(


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## Reno

chanwengyan said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to Russian watch. I saw this brand -- CJIABA, they claim themselves is RUSSIAN watch and selling in the bay at affordable (or consider CHEAP?) price tag.
> 
> I did a search of "cjiaba" in the forum and I see many forummers saying that its a FAKE SLAVA from china, and its not related to any Russian watch company. I have been email to Slava watch company few days ago, but still not receive any reply from them yet.
> 
> I would like to clearify few things here:
> 1. Cjiaba is a FAKE watch from china? or its a HOMAGE watch?
> 2. I knew some forummer having Cjiaba watch, may I know how is the quality of the watch? how is the finish (at its price tag)? how accurate is the (mechanical) movement?
> 
> Any opinion / comment / review are welcome. Thanks
> 
> - WengYan -


This my 19€ CJIABA ;-) (I insist on calling it _that way_, and not _Slava_ because I know it's not a real one !)










Keeps good time, the subdials @ 3h & 9h are completely useless (even if the hands move when the pushers are pressed).

The subdial @ 6h is the 24h mode.

Cool watch, extremely inexpensive... a bit small for my taste (40mm), but OK.


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## roo7

is it quartz or mechnical ? looks like a B&R homage


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## Reno

roo7 said:


> is it quartz or mechnical ? looks like a B&R homage


Mechanical (auto).










Definitely a B&R homage ;-)










Mini-review here :
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=1917204&highlight=CJIABA#post1917204


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## Chascomm

Reno said:


> Keeps good time, the subdials @ 3h & 9h are completely useless (even if the hands move when the pushers are pressed).


So the day and date don't actually turn over at midnight? Or do you mean that they are not chrono functions?


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## Reno

Chascomm said:


> *So the day and date don't actually turn over at midnight? *


Yep :-(

But I'm not even sure if those were intended to be Day&Date subdials... The Day for instance is rated up to 7... but if you look closely, the indexes doesn't match... Four steps to the "2" mark, and so on...

The pushers make the hands move, but nothing happens when I manually set time (past midnight).

If someone has this watch, it would be interesting to know if the subdials work...

Actually, I ordered this watch because I was eying it for a while when I received this promo, but I never expected too much...
So as long as it keeps good time, I don't really mind the _minor_ issues ;-)


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## jockoin

Hi,
You shouldn't be down on all Chinese Watches. The Seagull Movement is excellent, and the Chinese have sent many of their watch makers to Switzerland on apprenticeships. They have also brought Swiss watch makers, and watch technology people to China. In addition, more than 25% of the world's mechanical movements come out of one area in China. They are already starting to produce their own brands of high end mechanical time pieces, comparable in quality to the Swiss, and are being sold in various parts of the world. The Swiss are concerned about the future competition. Of course you can't argue with the fact that the Chinese make the best cheap mechanical movements. They are a force to be reckoned with.


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## Mister Mike

jockoin said:


> Hi,
> You shouldn't be down on all Chinese Watches. The Seagull Movement is excellent, and the Chinese have sent many of their watch makers to Switzerland on apprenticeships. They have also brought Swiss watch makers, and watch technology people to China. In addition, more than 25% of the world's mechanical movements come out of one area in China. They are already starting to produce their own brands of high end mechanical time pieces, comparable in quality to the Swiss, and are being sold in various parts of the world. The Swiss are concerned about the future competition. Of course you can't argue with the fact that the Chinese make the best cheap mechanical movements. They are a force to be reckoned with.


That's a good point ...for the Chinese watch forum. This is the Russian Watch forum. I'm sure some chinese movements are great, and that they're learned from the Swiss masters. Good for them!:-!

However, I don't wear Chinese watches, nor do I wear Swiss watches. I wear Soviet and Russian watches -- that's why I hang out here.


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## pyjujiop

jockoin said:


> Hi,
> You shouldn't be down on all Chinese Watches. The Seagull Movement is excellent, and the Chinese have sent many of their watch makers to Switzerland on apprenticeships. They have also brought Swiss watch makers, and watch technology people to China. In addition, more than 25% of the world's mechanical movements come out of one area in China. They are already starting to produce their own brands of high end mechanical time pieces, comparable in quality to the Swiss, and are being sold in various parts of the world. The Swiss are concerned about the future competition. Of course you can't argue with the fact that the Chinese make the best cheap mechanical movements. They are a force to be reckoned with.


I'd take the Seiko 7s26B or the Vostok 2416B against the low-cost Chinese movements, and I own all of them.

Look, no one's saying that we're "down" on Chinese watches. Several people here, including myself, own Chinese mechanical watches. I have two that I got for $20 each, and they actually keep good time, although I wouldn't trust either of them in the vicinity of any water. What we're saying here is that we don't want Chinese watches, like this "CJIABA," masquerading as Russian watches. If China's watch industry is so good, then they don't need to pretend to be something they aren't.


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## Silversen

Mister Mike said:


> That's a good point ...for the Chinese watch forum. This is the Russian Watch forum. I'm sure some chinese movements are great, and that they're learned from the Swiss masters. Good for them!:-!
> 
> However, I don't wear Chinese watches, nor do I wear Swiss watches. I wear Soviet and Russian watches -- that's why I hang out here.


Forceful speech of a strong-willed man! :-!

I'd like many Russian men do as you do, Mister Mike.
I guess maybe someone of your ancestors was Russian. :-d

Respect! :-!


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## Seele

I make it a point to make a distinction between "Slava" and "Slava Sozvezdie", even if spelt as "CJIABA". I certainly hope that more people notice the difference and refer to the latter as "Slava Sozvezdie" instead.

Having had a cursory look on eBay I noticed a lot of these "Slava Sozvezdie watches are also sold under other names, and even the same dealer would claim them to be Swiss or Japanese; perhaps they are tired of calling them Russian. But of course, the description that they are "military" is almost obligatory. :roll::-|


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## Stone Hill

pyjujiop said:


> I'd take the Seiko 7s26B or the Vostok 2416B against the low-cost Chinese movements, and I own all of them.
> 
> If China's watch industry is so good, then they don't need to pretend to be something they aren't.


They do it because they get payed too. If they did not make money doing it they wouldnt.


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## Seele

The Chinese watch industry certainly has high-class and squeaky-clean makers like Shanghai, Sea-Gull and Beijing, but it also has many less scrupulous players. They range from Fujian who's a big company, ostensibly totally above-board but offers to make any fake a customer wants, to nameless establishments keen to offer any product at the lowest possible price, it would be unrealistic to judge the whole industry by individual manufacturers.

This being said, how well Beijing Watch Co (for instance) is doing does not concern us at all: if you want a Beijing Everest, you'd go and buy one and that's that. The problem is with the numerous faceless makers who're more than willing to do anything for a quick buck... and the sellers who are more than willing to exploit the hard-earned reputation of people such as 2MWF.


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## phlogistician

I have had a 'Cjaba' like this one;










for a week now, and am quite happy with it, it's kept pretty good time so far.

It's been interesting to learn some of the history of the product here, and I agree it's a shame that it's being marketed as Russian, when it isn't, as I'd be happy to sport a watch that declared it's true Chinese lineage.

This one cost me £3+P&P from HK, so I think it's the least expensive watch I've ever bought. It is noticeably an inexpensive watch (I don't like the 'c' word  ) the bracelet is a bit tinny, and it's quite light, and the rotating bezel isnt that positive, BUT it is nice and light, and the rotating bezel rotates, it keeps good time, has decent off wrist time, is quite nice to look at and it was three quid. I reckon I know what a few friends and family might be getting for Xmas, ....


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## Seele

phlogistician,

You might have been fortunate in getting a good example. But like I said before, I would not support a firm whose intention is to take advantage of the hard-earned reputation of a respectable company, manufacturers who're willing to build products down to a price, and sellers whose intention is to deceive. I would actually feel less than happy if someone gives me one as a gift!

Cost aside, I feel your recipients would be happier if you stretch your budget a bit further and give Komandirskies instead: brand new, box and papers from Smirs at $41 a pop, post paid.


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## phlogistician

Seele said:


> I would not support a firm whose intention is to take advantage of the hard-earned reputation of a respectable company,


I wasn't aware of any watches branded 'Cjaba' before coming across these, so for me, having googled the brand name, and getting this thread as the first hit _before_ I purchased, I was well aware they weren't a Russian brand, but formerly had ties with the original Russian company. There was therefore, in my eyes, no deception, just homage.

Let's face it, lots of products are marketed as being from one country, but are produced in another;

Dolmio sauce, marketed by puppets with Italian accents, but made in Holland. Vladivar Vodka, complete with Russian Eagle on the label, used to be made outside Liverpool, England. Castlemaine XXXX lager, brewed under license in the UK until recently, with a lower abv than it's Australian counterpart.

On Komandirskies, well, they are several times more expensive as gifts (I could put Cjabas inside Xma crackers they are so inexspensive!) and while I love the look of my Vostok Amphibia, I think the Cjaba face and design would have wider appeal, especially to non-watch enthusiasts.


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## Seele

phlogistician,

I am afraid you are not quite correct. The brand on the watch is not "CJIABA" but "Slava" written in Cyrillic; the eBay sellers do not know how to input Cyrillic "СЛАВА" so they just use a combination of Roman letters to approximate the shape.

These "Slava Constellation" watches are not made with Slava's consent, so it is not the same as, like, Ford is an American company, but Ford cars are made in other countries as well. An Australian Ford car is a real Ford, made by a firm who is also a Ford company even though based in Australia with full consent and control by Ford HQ in the US. Your examples of Dolmio sauce etc would be like Ford cars made by Ford Australia, but if I start bolting cars together and call them Fords, it would be an entirely different thing altogether.

Same goes for these "Slava Constellation" watches, made by a variety of subcontractors, ordered by a company not related to Slava, and without Slava's consent and control at all.

This issue has been covered many times here already.


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## pyjujiop

Seele said:


> I am afraid you are not quite correct. The brand on the watch is not "CJIABA" but "Slava" written in Cyrillic; the eBay sellers do not know how to input Cyrillic "СЛАВА" so they just use a combination of Roman letters to approximate the shape.


True, but it seems appropriate to call these crappy Chinese fakes as "CJIABA" rather than sully Slava's good name. There sure isn't anything "Slav" about them.


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## Melnyk

phlogistician said:


> I have had a 'Cjaba' like this one;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for a week now, and am quite happy with it, it's kept pretty good time so far.
> 
> It's been interesting to learn some of the history of the product here, and I agree it's a shame that it's being marketed as Russian, when it isn't, as I'd be happy to sport a watch that declared it's true Chinese lineage.
> 
> This one cost me £3+P&P from HK, so I think it's the least expensive watch I've ever bought. It is noticeably an inexpensive watch (I don't like the 'c' word  ) the bracelet is a bit tinny, and it's quite light, and the rotating bezel isnt that positive, BUT it is nice and light, and the rotating bezel rotates, it keeps good time, has decent off wrist time, is quite nice to look at and it was three quid. I reckon I know what a few friends and family might be getting for Xmas, ....


NEW FULL SKELETON AUTO MECHANICAL BLACK STRAP MEN WATCH - eBay (item 270569924618 end time Aug-24-10 09:08:55 PDT) this is a much better alternative for a gift and is not trying to be something else. you might send your friends in the wrong direction getting them a fraudulent watch.


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## Seele

pyjujiop said:


> True, but it seems appropriate to call these crappy Chinese fakes as "CJIABA" rather than sully Slava's good name. There sure isn't anything "Slav" about them.


I much prefer to call the genuine items from Slava/2MWF "Slava", and the fraudulent ones "Slava Constellation" or "Slava Sozvezdie" in Roman, or "Слава Созвездие" in Cyrillic.


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## phlogistician

pyjujiop said:


> True, but it seems appropriate to call these crappy Chinese fakes as "CJIABA" rather than sully Slava's good name. There sure isn't anything "Slav" about them.


What's 'crappy' about them? I'm more than happy with mine, it's a good watch. It tells the time, it's accurate. It satisfies the criteria for being a watch.

OK, so they are using the brandname and shouldn't be. I hadn't realised how many former Slava watches bore the 'CJIABA' brand, some of the models I'd considered purchasing (like one of the CCCP faced models) didn't bear any noticeable brand name, and some were branded as 'Slava'. That doesn't excuse the infringement of course, but a quick google of the brand reveals the truth about these watches, and if people buy without doing any research, well, they deserve what they get, rather.


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## nectarios73

personally i am down with chinese watches(i dont doubt about their value,good for them,but i stay away from them)...all of them...my laptop is chinese-made,my router is chinese,the toys my kids are playing with, is chinese-made...and probably in a decade from now my car( no matter what brand ) will be a chinese made too...now owning a chinese watch is too much for me!!...sorry


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