# So....Is Zenith Really Worth It?



## orahu (Jan 7, 2007)

I bought a Longines Evidenza PR a few weeks ago and love it -- I told my wife no more watches for a while. 

BUT, then I saw the Zenith El Primero Chronograph HW and it kind of took my breath away. So....as you can imagine I have been on the hunt for one. I am sure you Zenith enthusiasts already know this watch is no longer made and there are not that many popping up on forums, EBAY, etc. When they do appear they are running about $2500.00 USD, boxes and papers inclusive. 

My question is this -- is Zenith really a watch of special or unique value. It seems like some people on watch forums really love them and others hate them. Why is that? 

I am just trying to learn a bit more before potentially buying one from people that clearly have a defined appreciation for the brand already.

Thanks.


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

orahu said:


> I bought a Longines Evidenza PR a few weeks ago and love it -- I told my wife no more watches for a while.
> 
> BUT, then I saw the Zenith El Primero Chronograph HW and it kind of took my breath away. So....as you can imagine I have been on the hunt for one. I am sure you Zenith enthusiasts already know this watch is no longer made and there are not that many popping up on forums, EBAY, etc. When they do appear they are running about $2500.00 USD, boxes and papers inclusive.
> 
> ...


Well, I really must say that in my not so humble opinion, Zenith is definitely worth it more than Longines these days! When comparing Longines now to Longines before the quartz crisis, there just isn't any comparison. In the old days, only two companies had won more prizes for accuracy (Zenith and Omega in that order) and they produced some very high quality in-house movements. Nowadays, they are reduced to ETA movements, even though some have exclusive modules.

Yes, I would consider Zenith to be worth it. If you are looking at resale value, maybe not, but then a lot of other companies in the same bracket would fare just as well. Resale value is dictated by the market and the market is dominated by trends and marketing. Is there an objective reason why Patek scores higher in resale terms than Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantin? Probably not. Is there an objective reason why Rolex holds its value better than Jaeger LeCoultre or Omega (or Zenith?!)? Also unlikely. It's just that collectors define the market price - if they are willing to pay more for one watch that an equivalent next, for whatever reason, the former will hold its value better.

Objectively, I strongly believe that Zenith is worth it. They still make some of the most acurate movements that you can buy (no wonder they won 1565 prizes for accuracy), they have not only developed the world's first automatic chronograph movement but have recently extended this in many ways (split second feature, large date feature, combinations with tourbillon, wrist alarm, minute repeater, etc). What more do you want?!

Hartmut Richter


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

I strongly agree with Hartmut here. I will also add that at this price level, we are talking about wrist jewelry here. We are talking about $2,500, right? Technologically speaking, Zeniths, especially the EP types, are worth it. But if it does not smile to you, don't get it. You have to wear it and enjoy it.

Please keep us posted!

Dan


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## damonbecker (Apr 15, 2008)

I also concur with Dan and Hartmut. I really like wearing a watch, in which, only watch aficionados recognize it. After reading the Zenith book, it reinforced my respect for Zenith's ability to build watches of a very high quality and accuracy. 

Damon


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## Ray916MN (Feb 11, 2006)

I don't get people who don't appreciate Zenith.

The Zenith El Primero movement has no peer in its price range. It is technically superior. Column wheel 36,000 bph movement, versus the competitor cam lever or modular 28,800 bph movements. Since the development of the chronograph, it remains the only mechanical watch chronograph capable of 1/10th of a second timing.

Maybe it's Rolex's assertion that the movement had to be slowed down to 28,800 to be reliable, that makes people look askance at the El Primero. They imagine that the Rolex is better, even though after 40 years of basically continuous production with little change the El Primero has proven itself to be a robust reliable accurate movement with no extra servicing required and no problems with wear. Having paid thousands and thousands of dollars more for a detuned chronograph, it is understandable that the believers of Rolex's spin, hold tight to the story in the face of the facts. How else can they justify paying a premium for a lesser product than the original.

The El Primero is a gotta have watch for a collector. In the 40 years since its introduction, there is still no other chronograph with its level of technical sophistication and capabilities.


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## Acme (Jun 15, 2008)

Why would anyone hate Zenith?

Nowadays they've introduced some really strange designs, but one can choose a more conservative looking alternative.


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## orahu (Jan 7, 2007)

Thanks everyone for your insights! There is also a good series of posts, along the same lines, on Time Zone today. I think I may be moving closer to making a Zenith purchase.


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Ray916MN said:


> <<snip>>
> 
> Maybe it's Rolex's assertion that the movement had to be slowed down to 28,800 to be reliable, that makes people look askance at the El Primero. They imagine that the Rolex is better, even though after 40 years of basically continuous production with little change the El Primero has proven itself to be a robust reliable accurate movement with no extra servicing required and no problems with wear. Having paid thousands and thousands of dollars more for a detuned chronograph, it is understandable that the believers of Rolex's spin, hold tight to the story in the face of the facts. How else can they justify paying a premium for a lesser product than the original.
> 
> <<end of snip>>


Without saying anything bad about Rolex, envision the average buyer of Rolex. They are people who want something with a prestigious name and the cost means they'll get it, right? ;-)

At any rate, a lot of people I've seen who have bought Rolex at my jeweler don't know anything about a watch. It is amazing that they'll even spend the money for one. But one thing you can rest assured of, they typically will not have the watch serviced. I have run through my share of "I've worn it for 10/15/20 years and never had it serviced or had a lick of trouble from it.

My guess, and it is entirely my guess, is that the reason Rolex slowed down the EP was so that it would wear better when not serviced as their typical customer is apt to do.

JMHO!!

Dan


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## damonbecker (Apr 15, 2008)

Please, keep us posted! :-d

Damon


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## edmd (Feb 28, 2009)

Dan brings up two points I've often wondered. Does the el primero require more maintenance bc of it's faster bph time? I have never heard of dependability issues


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## TheHomez (Mar 20, 2008)

edmd said:


> Dan brings up two points I've often wondered. Does the el primero require more maintenance bc of it's faster bph time? I have never heard of dependability issues


Good question. The faster rate def increases its accuracy but what about maintenance times, you would think it would increase the frequency of scheduled maintenance but I'm not sure it does....:-s


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

edmd said:


> Dan brings up two points I've often wondered. Does the el primero require more maintenance bc of it's faster bph time? I have never heard of dependability issues


That would be because there are no dependability issues. :-!

One can approach servicing one of two ways. You can follow the guidelines or you can wait for the watch to misbehave. Most people wait for the latter.

As for wearing of parts, one never knows. It is possible that pivot points are worn, but if Zenith doesn't tell you, how would you know? They may even have an SOP to replace certain pieces without looking at them.

I am not saying that is so, but if they don't tell us what they do, we won't know.

Cheers!

Dan


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

As a 36000 A/h watch, the only extra wear will be in the balance and escapement system. The second (hand) wheel still rotates once a minute, the minute hand wheel still once an hour. Zenith use a special lubricant (Molybdenum bisulphide based) for the balance and escapement, it is all a question of how fast that dries up. If not any more than ordinary lubricant, expect the same wear and tear as from a 28800 A/h watch.

Hartmut Richter


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## ilanpi (Mar 21, 2009)

Personally, I believe that there has been a recent decline in Zenith design standards. I base this on the Zenith Defy Classic line which I feel has a number of design flaws:










This is supposed to be a dive watch (as is proved by the unid-directional bezel which is necessary only for diving applications), however, the bezel is not very well designed. In particular, the usual mark at 00 is replaced by a "60", which makes identification of where to exactly place the bezel more difficult. The inverted triangle pointing to the bezel origin is superior and should have been retained. The metallic bezel has the same color as the bezel marks so they are hard to distinguish. A functional bezel has a more visible configuration such as white marks on a black bezel.

Small seconds are hard to read for a functional sports watch, especially a diver where luminosity is an issue. In order not to obstruct the small dials, the minute and hour hands are skeleton, but this means less luminous hands, so less visibility. It seems that central seconds are a necessity on a diver.

Interestingly, on the black model










The hands are full, so are more luminous, but they completely obstruct the small seconds for many minutes a day.

On the other hand, some other models are a complete success. In particular, the Class Elite Reserve de Marche










Unlike many similar models, the 5 minute marks have been especially adapted for the small dial complications, namely at 5 and 10 minutes. The three complications have a good balance on the dial. I feel that French such as "reserve de marche" on the dial is more appropriate for a small manufacture.

I hope that under new management Zenith will continue with a more careful design policy.

-ilan

P.S. The only Zeniths I would consider buying are the ones I found at Casty in Paris, near the Tuileries. They have two new timepieces which they have had sitting there for decades and have been unable to sell, though they don't seem to want to lower the price much. The first is a genuine marine chronometer going for about 6000 Euros. The other is a solid gold pocket watch chronometer selling for 12000 Euros.


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## GeorgeD (May 4, 2009)

I dont like the defys at all
however in my view, the cronomaster open and the class open traveller multicity are designs which will become all time classic
I just think zenith needs to find a balance in its designs.


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