# PD Gen 3?



## namor

The introduction of the ready to wear, Gen 3 Paradive is a very positive one in my opinion. It harkens back to the earlier days of MKII, especially using the bulletproof Seiko movement. Obviously, there are only very limited pictures available, but the few on the pre-order page raises a question: Is this 200M watch with no HEV a Paradive or is it more like a Gen 2 MMT Blackwater? Its a good purchase either way, but the barebones info provided so far really makes it seem more like the BW than a PD. To repeat - I believe it is still a solid watch purchase, just curious which predecessor it will be most like.


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Hey there,

The Paradive case is so much larger in terms of size and weight than the Blackwaters'.

:think: I'm thinking that the PD Gen 3 is truly a "Paradive" - in the most complete sense.

The PD3 looks really good, and if I didn't already have Paradives and a Graywater, I think I would have scooped up one of those acrylic-bezeled beauties by now....

|>|>


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## namor

*"The Paradive case is so much larger in terms of size and weight than the Blackwaters'."

* Exactly my thought. But if its got the bigger case, shouldn't it be WR to 300M?


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## Chromejob

namor said:


> ? Obviously, there are only very limited pictures available, but the few on the pre-order page raises a question: Is this 200M watch with no HEV a Paradive or is it more like a Gen 2 MMT Blackwater? ?.


 "Very limited pictures?" Have you subscribed to Mk II's Instagram account?


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## OmegaCosmicMan

namor said:


> *"The Paradive case is so much larger in terms of size and weight than the Blackwaters'."
> 
> * Exactly my thought. But if its got the bigger case, shouldn't it be WR to 300M?


:think: Well, the case may be very similar in size and dimension, but be substantially different in terms of manufacture or construction (than the PD3 case).

:think: I seem to recall that the previous Paradive and Graywater cases were each machined from a stainless steel billet or block. That is a much more demanding and expensive process than a combination of stamped and formed pieces (such as may be present in the PD3).

We know that the PD3 is much less costly than the previous Paradives, and this may be, in part, because less expensive manufacturing or forming processes could be employed in the PD3. **The foregoing is, of course, all conjecture - Guesswork - SWAG*.*

We also know that the PD3 does not have the 'release valve' feature. Could that have an effect on the depth rating?

It could be that the crystal is made of thinner material, and that could have an effect.

And, there could be other changes in design or construction or fabrication that we are not aware of.

(Added....) _So. To answer your question..._ *No.* Not necessarily.

:think: Just because one watch has physical dimensions and shape, and weight similar to another should not be implied to determine that they should have similar resistance to water intrusion from pressure. Case materials will respond differently to water pressure depending on the specific materials used, the design and shape and thickness of those materials, and will also depend on how the shapes of the materials are derived. Specifically, how the materials are formed or manufactured can affect how they will react to pressure increases. The 'stiffness' or rigidity of the case may be determined by the ultimate final shape and how that shape is derived.

To get more water resistance, you must have a case and crystal that show less deformation under pressure, and better sealing against that pressure. Remember that every watch case is going to have at least two 'holes' in it. One for the crystal, one for the stem, and one for the case back, on this particular watch.

Omega's approach in the 60's was to use the mono-case on those old 'Seamaster' watches, where every thing that went into the case (except the stem and crown) went through the front. It had a solid back. As did the original Benrus watch that this watch is an 'homage' to.

How each of these openings are sealed, or prepared against the intrusion of water under pressure, will detemine how expensive the watch may be, and what its ultimate water-resistance-rating will be.

:think: I find it helpful to think of all materials as not being absolutely 'rigid' or 'solid,' but 'plastic', meaing in a sense that every material will exhibit some response or change when subjected to enough pressure.

:think: And....even 'just' 200M of water pressure is a 'Lot of Pressure'.... 

 Best.....


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## TwentiethCenturyFox

Very excited about the PD3! So much so I turned down a pretty reasonable offer on a previous PD.


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## Flip.willy

Can anyone educate me on the acrylic bezel inlay? It's interesting to me that it's an option, but I don't know what the pros and cons would be as compared to the aluminum and why Bill would offer the watch with both instead of choosing one. 


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Flip.willy said:


> Can anyone educate me on the acrylic bezel inlay? It's interesting to me that it's an option, but I don't know what the pros and cons would be as compared to the aluminum and why Bill would offer the watch with both instead of choosing one.


 He is giving you the option to pick the one you like the most...;-)

b-) Options are NIce. b-)

:think: I think the acrylic inlay will have all the markers and numbers lumed. Some will think that would be nicer in appearance. ;-)

:think: The downside for the acrylic is that it is not as tough as the aluminum, and would be more easily (Much more easily) damaged, and may be much more susceptible to damage from harsh chemicals and will probably 'age' faster.

Acrylic is a plastic, and plastic seems to inevitably degrade or deteriorate with UV exposure, drying out, becoming brittle, warping, shrinking, cracking, or suffering other changing properties, just through normal exposure and aging. Acrylic's properties change more rapidly in the presence of extreme temperatures.

Aluminum will be much more durable and will last longer. It won't shrink, warp or become more brittle or crack. It is more resistant to damage from sparks or high temperature, and will withstand exposure to a wider range of chemicals or compounds. Aluminum will resist damge from sharp impacts better than plastic.

:think: That's my SWAG on the matter....


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## powerband

What is the size of the PD3?


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## Flip.willy

Very helpful, thank you. Has anyone had a watch with an acrylic bezel before. Wondering about the overall aesthetic. 


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## Darwin

powerband said:


> What is the size of the PD3?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From the MKII pre-order page:



> Dimensions• Case Width:41.25 mm (bezel diameter)• Case Thickness:15.54 mm• Case length:49.50 mm end to end• Lug width:20.00 mmWeight:98 grams (without strap)Crystal:Double domed sapphire crystal, with anti-reflective coating on interior surface onlyLuminous:SuperLumiNova BGW9Movement:Made in Japan SII NE15 (Rotor features Côtes de Genève), quickset date, hack setting, automatic with manual winding capability. Movement origin: Made in JapanWater resistance:20 ATMs (200 meters - verified according to ISO 6425)Case Finish:Bead blasted 316L stainless steelOther:Drilled through lugs.
> Screw-down crown
> 120 click unidirectional bezel
> Strap: Natural rubber dive strap, or UK MOD-style strap
> 
> Bezel: Anodized aluminum or acrylic inlay
> Timed in 3 positions.


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## powerband

Thank you. I navigated through the MKII pages and their boutique page but, for some reason, couldn't find the info. I appreciate you posting it.


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## MrDagon007

Did anyone preordering already get the mail to choose the bezel? And related: are there daylight photos comparing the different bezels? Am curious about the acryl one.


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## TxBassTech

MrDagon007 said:


> Did anyone preordering already get the mail to choose the bezel? And related: are there daylight photos comparing the different bezels? Am curious about the acryl one.


If you go to the MK II website they have posted an update about the delivery schedule.
2017-08-30: Paradive Gen 3 Update


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## MrDagon007

Thanks!


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## mikiekimi

So I'm I understanding the update correctly that ordering will re-open? I'm missing my ole Blackwater (that I gave to my son after my retirement from the military) and would love to replace it with a Paradive Gen 3.


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## Flip.willy

mikiekimi said:


> So I'm I understanding the update correctly that ordering will re-open? I'm missing my ole Blackwater (that I gave to my son after my retirement from the military) and would love to replace it with a Paradive Gen 3.


Yup, that's my understanding. I believe this will be another ready to wear line like the hawkinge, so once launched, ordering should remain open. That said, sounds like there will be a gap between general ordering and preorders. I preordered and am waiting for the email to select final watch configuration and pay for shipping, from the update that should be happening soon. (No guess for when GO would open, there obviously have been some delays.

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## Flip.willy

Ordering is opening up, what combos are people going with? 


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## Darwin

I went with the date dial and 60 minute bezel insert


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## longstride

No date - 12 Hour Acrylic - Rubber Strap.


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## navyman

Same here. No date - 12 Hour Acrylic - Rubber Strap.


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## MrDagon007

Date, 12hr acrylic, rubber.


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## MHe225

No date - 12 Hour Acrylic - Nylon, UK MOD style strap.

Wondering whether I should have ordered the rubber strap too / instead (may ask for that) and wished I could see photos of the actual acrylic bezel (insert). I think it will be fine, not too glossy. Eagerly awaiting this one too (there are 2 P300 Planks in the queue as well).


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## Semper Jeep

I went with the dive bezel and no date version. I ordered it on the rubber strap but also ordered the MOD strap as well. I'm really looking forward to this one!


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## Timev0id

No date,12h, Acrylic gloss bezel, rubber strap. 

But damn that shipping to Scandinavia cost a fortune. Fedex was 190 $ hehe. That and customs cost more then the watch -.-


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## whatclay

No-date, 12hr aluminium, rubber

Pros/cons of acrylic and aluminum bezel? Considering switching to acrylic


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## Timev0id

whatclay said:


> No-date, 12hr aluminium, rubber
> 
> Pros/cons of acrylic and aluminum bezel? Considering switching to acrylic


I would say aluminium Will last longer and get a diffrent stressed metal patina, but its not everyday you can order acrylic.

I only seen old sketchy acrylic on picture.

But i get a picture of old bowling-balls for some reson in my head thinking of acrylic bezels.

I want something diffrent to Ad to my watchcollection.


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## TxBassTech

No date, 12 hour aluminum bezel, rubber strap.


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## NoMusicNoLife

With date, Acrylic bezel, 12-hour, and Rubber Strap here


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## MrDagon007

whatclay said:


> No-date, 12hr aluminium, rubber
> 
> Pros/cons of acrylic and aluminum bezel? Considering switching to acrylic


Only the acrylic covered bezel has lume on all indices.
Will look quite posh but can scratch ( however can usually be polished out)


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## whatclay

MrDagon007 said:


> Only the acrylic covered bezel has lume on all indices.
> Will look quite posh but can scratch ( however can usually be polished out)


Great point/observation. Think I'll stick with the aluminum- more simple and legible


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## Flip.willy

Would really like to see a pic of the acrylic. 


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## STEELINOX

MrDagon007 said:


> Only the acrylic covered bezel has lume on all indices.
> Will look quite posh but can scratch ( however can usually be polished out)


Meant to be worn - not some sort of "China Doll" !









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## gr8sw

finally received my PD3 selection email today 

going with no date, 12 hr acrylic, nylon... stay close to Type l :-!


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## JFingers

12 hr acrylic, no date, rubber. Stoked about this one. Been on the hunt for a blackwater for a long time, never thought I'd be able to get a new one.

Blue skies, y'all!
-only jake


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## anthony808

Dive bezel, aluminum, no-date.


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## longstride

The original Benrus type 1 and 2 were fitted with acrylic bezel inlays, the Adanac/Marathon/Gallet (steel case Quartz navigators) used aluminum bezel inserts, the acrylic will give a feel very close to the original Benrus which the PD3 is largely based on. I think you can't go wrong with either choice, it would be nice to have a grey aluminum bezel option (like on the Fulcrum) but as I said I think either the aluminum or the acrylic will be great.









An original Benrus with acrylic bezel insert (image lifted from web)


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## mega

I'm wavering...thinking about switching from Dive (which I use often) to the Acrylic 12-hr (which I don't have and I'm intrigued by the lume). I'm going to try to check them out at the W&W Wind Up next weekend, even if it means my order gets delayed.


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## Flip.willy

Ripped from the mkii instagram...




























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## clarencek

Bought this today at worn and wound. Acrylic no date. Really awesome watch!


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## longstride

Nice one!! Same configuration as mine (yet to be delivered) - enjoy that watch! looks like a beauty.


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## spartan6

Awesome, congratulations. A new piece of history!


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## longstride

Hey *clarencek* - do you want to do a mini review?



clarencek said:


> Bought this today at worn and wound. Acrylic no date. Really awesome watch!


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## gr8sw

clarencek said:


> Bought this today at worn and wound. Acrylic no date. Really awesome watch!


hey, that's the one I ordered!! no fair butting in line at w&w... looks awesome! :-!


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## song31

looks awesome didnt realize he had any to sell at W&W- cool


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## Timev0id

Just a reminder that pre-order not always is true. Gz on the Paradive tho.


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## vandergl

Observed differences between my original PD and my RTW:
I received my RTW PD gen3 today. Ordered in in mid-June (for those who want to know). I have a Paradive I bought from MKII in 2012 as well which I love so much I sold all of my other MKIIs so it wouldn't be jealous...and only offered to part with it for far more that I knew anyone was willing to pay for it. For the RTW PD gen3, visually I cannot readily tell the difference between it and my 2012 version barring the pip and lack of HRV. The pip addition is huge! It just completes the bezel IMHO and the pip is now glaringly absent on my original PD to me. Here are some other small differences I've noted rather quickly:

-Bezel is a bit mushier than my other, non-gen3, PD and has quite a bit more wiggle. 
-The second hand is more ticky than sweepy when compared to my other PD. A difference not wholly unexpected with the change in movement (note: I have limited experience with Japanese movement automatics). 
-I have also noticed that there's some dimensional change with respect to the crown. I can't see this difference; I only feel it. My fingers purchase more of the crown facing the back of the watch when screwing or unscrewing the crown on my original PD than on the RTW. I'm not sure if this is a change in the dimensions of the crown itself or its placement, or perhaps the way the case envelops the crown toward the back of the case. This difference has the result of making it a bit easier to screw/unscrew the crown on my original PD than on the RTW. This may or may not be related but i find myself inadvertently moving the bezel when making crown adjustments. I don't recall ever experiencing that on my non-RTW version. 

Both of my Paradives are in the same configuration which is 12-hr aluminum bezel with date window which brings me to the only difference that I would say really jumps out at me and that is the date numerals themselves. I don't see any noticeable difference in font however the date is just much more difficult to see on the RTW than my original PD. The lettering just seems darker against the black date wheel or not quite as white as on my other PD. Functionally, it is more difficult to make out the date on this one for me. 

Timekeeping...I wound the PD gen3 roughly 20 turns this afternoon and will wear for the next day or so when I can consider it fully wound. I'll reset the time and do a 24 hour time check at that point. Currently, it's loosing about 2s/hour on my wrist but I don't expect that to last. 

Overall, understanding the price difference between my new from MKII Paradive circa 2012 and my new RTW Paradive, I have no misgivings or reservations. If you love the PD style and functionality get in line and snap one up. 

Lastly, Your M may certainly V.

Timekeeping update: After about a day and a half of losing 2s/hour I'm happy to report that the my PD RTW is now keeping time at aprox. +1s/day (on the wrist, only off for bathing). Oh did I mention how much I love the pip on the bezel?


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## gr8sw

I agree with your points, although I haven't handled the original PD... but even with those minor issues I'm really enjoying mine!


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## Chromejob

Suggestions: 

Look staight on to the crown of each Paradive. The case may be narrowing more around the crown on the original, allowing that percieved “grabbiness” of it. 

“More ticky than sweepy” sounds like a different beat rate. Is the original an ETA 2412, 28800 beats per hour?


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## vandergl

Timekeeping update: After about a 1.5 days of losing 2s/hour I'm happy to report that my PD RTW has been keeping time a roughly +1s/24h for the last couple of days (on the wrist, constant wear except for bathing). Have I mentioned how much I love the pip?

Gr8sw,
I agree. Except for the date thing I wouldn't even consider my observations issues. Every watch is different and I don't think anyone expected the RTW version to be identical in every way to the previous version. Great pick on the bracelet. My original PD is on the bracelet while my RTW is on the luxurious (not sarcastic) rubber strap. It's nice to be able to go back an forth without having to pull out watch strap tools.


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## phillycheez

Anyone with the acrylic bezel post lume shots?

Does the lume match the dial? 

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## longstride

As Above.....!


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## clarencek

Here you go. Matches though it's not as bright as the dial.


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## NoMusicNoLife

clarencek said:


> Here you go. Matches though it's not as bright as the dial.


Thanks for posting！I like the lume shot！ It would be out-of-balance if the bezel is as bright as the dial. YMMV.

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## thejollywatcher

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## longstride

OK so mine showed up yesterday......very happy - planning on posting a proper review soon.


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## longstride

I have been developing a write up for the last week or so - but the glitches with editing and uploading photo's have not been fixed yet so cant do anything till WUS have the problems solved.


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## gr8sw

my Paradive is now +2 secs after 6 days on the wrist 24/7, out of the box


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## thejollywatcher

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## longstride

Love it ..... definitely a worthy RTW stablemate to the Hawkinge....!


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## vandergl

Yeah....just checked mine again, still +2sec from my update 3 days ago. I took mine off for half a day as well. I placed it crown up which was indicated to not gain or lose time according to the timing card that came with the watch.



gr8sw said:


> my Paradive is now +2 secs after 6 days on the wrist 24/7, out of the box


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## NoMusicNoLife

longstride said:


> Love it ..... definitely a worthy RTW stablemate to the Hawkinge....!
> 
> View attachment 12705403


That's an awesome lume shot!

I have the same configuration. Mine should arrive anytime this week.

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## MrDagon007

Happy with mine. Stark and no-nonsense. Excellent rubber strap.


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## longstride

Yes, I think it's a beauty too, the rubber strap is perfect for this watch. And there is something absolutely captivating about the PD3's Grey/Black/White & Blue color, shape and refinement, a great watch!


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## thejollywatcher

Trying a Haveston with bead blasted finish.










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## longstride

Nice one...good looking option.


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## Timev0id

So i found a respons to the bezel action but on MKII official instagram.



> mkiiwatch@finnair_crew Yes, the bezel on the Gen 3 Paradive should indeed be easier to turn than the Benchcrafted Paradive (Gen 2).
> This was intentional to improve the serviceability and longevity of the bezel and click spring mechanism. We are double checking each piece and all are going out within spec for the new click spring. Feel free to DM us if you have more questions.


I think its unavoidable result when pushing out a new generation of a model. People starts comparing it to previous versions. MK II just needs to handle the high expectations buyers will have from the excellent track record of previous generations of the same model.


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## TonyKwan

I’ve got mine and the bezel is a bit wiggle. Anyone has the same issue ?


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## TonyKwan

I’ve got mine and the bezel is a bit wiggle. Anyone has the same issue ?


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## Foch

Yup. Wiggles a little. I love it. Too tight a bezel will jam up with sand and crap when I dive or muck around in the sand. Very well thought out watch and faithful to the Benrus that was the inspiration.


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## Chromejob

Not a PD owner, but I’ve had two bezel springs replaced under warranty by Mk II (both graciously and with minimal delay). I’d be glad for a little bezel wiggle (sounds dirty, doesn’t it) along with a more reliable and longer-lasting spring. YMMV.


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## TonyKwan

So a bit wiggles comes with a higher reliability? 


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## longstride

The bezel on my PD3 feels pretty solid, no vertical play, no sidways play, and the spring feels about right, it could potentially be stiffer but I don't think the bezel spring is really an issue. The whole watch feels solid, is well finished and just seems to be very well balanced and proportioned. Its already a fave.


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## Darwin

TonyKwan said:


> So a bit wiggles comes with a higher reliability?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes - it's a trade-off. SThe way this has been explained to me is that stiffer springs offer more resistance when you turn the bezel and consequently need to be replaced more frequently (because they are under greater tension).


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## TonyKwan

Darwin said:


> Yes - it's a trade-off. SThe way this has been explained to me is that stiffer springs offer more resistance when you turn the bezel and consequently need to be replaced more frequently (because they are under greater tension).


I've got the same answer from MKii . 
But what about those on Seiko , Dagaz, Marathon and whatever brand you name it, take Seiko SKX007 for example, (which comes in a cheaper price) does it needs to be serviced more frequently?

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## TonyKwan

Hey bro, what ever the reason behind the wiggle bezel, I just don’t quite get it.


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## Dead Reckoning

Like Longstride, mine is squared away. Bezel tight. Crown, though small, was not that hard to manipulate. On top of that, after three days of wearing the movment has been perfect. 72hrs and it is +0/-0. I was not expecting that. Real happy. Got notification on the 6th and the box was at my door on the 10th. Probably helped that Bills place is 35 min from me.

[URL="https://www.watchuseek.com/







[/URL]


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## Nocam

Does this one also use the delrin movement holder?


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## Raneleigh

Just arrived yesterday...better than I could have imagined:
















No issues with crown or bezel at all. Bezel clicks feel old school - I like it. The acrylic insert is great, but I like the matte stealthy anodized aluminum best. The luminova stayed readable all night - more than I can say for some of my much more expensive watches. Threw it on a bund strap and it just works. Looks and feels like the quality piece it is. It has barely been a day and I have already gotten a few compliments on it.


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## vandergl

I wonder if there are enough of us in the Philly area to have a Philly meet up? I've never gone to the NYC ones.



Dead Reckoning said:


> Like Longstride, mine is squared away. Bezel tight. Crown, though small, was not that hard to manipulate. On top of that, after three days of wearing the movment has been perfect. 72hrs and it is +0/-0. I was not expecting that. Real happy. Got notification on the 6th and the box was at my door on the 10th. Probably helped that Bills place is 35 min from me.


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## aaronk

For those that have recently received their PD, when did you order it?


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## Timev0id

aaronk said:


> For those that have recently received their PD, when did you order it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Think most have pre order it this summer in June.


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## Raneleigh

Ordered Nov.2, delivered Dec. 14.


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## Dead Reckoning

We had one earlier this year. I was not the one to arrange it, though. Was held at the "Fox & Hound" next to the King Of Prussia Mall. Was a general WUS GTG and not a Mkii centric one, though.



vandergl said:


> I wonder if there are enough of us in the Philly area to have a Philly meet up? I've never gone to the NYC ones.


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## ca_ng

Does anyone have both the Gen 2 & Gen 3 Paradive for a comparison? 

Just ordered my PD3 RTW, acrylic date model, and I'm curious about the history of Paradive and how it has changed over the generations.


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## ca_ng

double post


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## longstride

So I'm sure you know the 'Paradive' platform has been through 4 evloutionary stages/models... 1. Blackwater - which had multiple hand/dial/bezel options that coud be ordered, it was also smaller by a couple of mm than any of the subsequent versions, ETA movement.2. PMWF 'Greywater' - a limited edition of 50 (only 39 completed to date) which incorporated the GMT ETA movement.3. Paradive - which is the same size as the current watch but had an ETA movement, aluminum 12Hr and 60Min bezels and a HEV valve.4. Paradive Gen 3 - now a RTW option, no HEV, aluminum and acrylic bezel option, 12Hr and 60Min options, all Japan manufacture and Seiko movement.


ca_ng said:


> Does anyone have both the Gen 2 & Gen 3 Paradive for a comparison? Just ordered my PD3 RTW, acrylic date model, and I'm curious about the history of Paradive and how it has changed over the generations.


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## clonetrooper

Received confirmation of my order...ETA 23 Jan...I am somewhat exited..;-))


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## OmegaCosmicMan

longstride said:


> So I'm sure you know the 'Paradive' platform has been through 4 evloutionary stages/models... 1. Blackwater - which had multiple hand/dial/bezel options that coud be ordered, it was also smaller by a couple of mm than any of the subsequent versions, ETA movement.2. PMWF 'Greywater' - a limited edition of 50 (only 39 completed to date) which incorporated the GMT ETA movement.3. Paradive - which is the same size as the current watch but had an ETA movement, aluminum 12Hr and 60Min bezels and a HEV valve.4. Paradive Gen 3 - now a RTW option, no HEV, aluminum and acrylic bezel option, 12Hr and 60Min options, all Japan manufacture and Seiko movement.


:think: It's just a tiny bit more complicated than you laid out. You've gotten most of it correct. :-!

The Blackwaters had the ETA 2824 Swiss movement in them. The Blackwater was certified and tested as a '200-meter' watch. After the Blackwater came the first Paradives.

The Paradive was marketed as a substantial improvement over the Blackwater, with 300 meters of water resistance verified and a helium escape valve added.

The first Paradives had an acrylic bezel insert option that was available for a short time. I know that at least the 12-hour 'Navigator' bezel insert was available in the acrylic bezel version. I do not know if the 60 minute 'Diver' bezel insert was available in acrylic. The acrylic inserts were available for short time, and then they were discontinued. Apparently there was a very high reject rate because of quality problems. For some reason I suspect that the first aluminum bezel inserts may have been manufactured with the same process as the Blackwater inserts. But one of the features to come on the 'new' Paradive was the new, hardened aluminum bezel insert with deeply engraved numbers and markings. It is much more durable than the aluminum inserts that were featured up to that point with the Blackwaters. After a time it was announced that sapphire bezel inserts would become available in the both the 'Divers' bezel and the 12-hour 'Navigator' bezel.

The Paradive always had the ETA 2836 movement. It was stated that the Paradive case components were fully machined from billet stock,- not stamped or formed - which results in exceptional strength and enhanced ability to resist deformation.

After the Paradive had been developed and marketed, MKII and the the then Poor Man's Watch Forum embarked on the process that would bring forth the special edition PMWF Graywater. The Graywater was conceived as a four-hand GMT watch and so has the smooth-winding ETA 2892 installed- It appears to be based on the Paradive case and other components, like the bracelet. Unfortunately, the completion of that project went on for years. The Graywaters featured only the 12-hour 'Navigator' bezel insert in hardened aluminum.

During the time that the Paradive was still being sold and the Graywater parts were being collected, Bill remarked in a news post that he was having some trouble obtaining the cases with the excellent quality that he expected to see, and then there were bracelet problems. I think that the need to gather the case and bracelet parts to finish the Graywater Project, and the problems MKII had with rejection rate for parts that did not meet quality standards, and the general difficulty getting these parts in small batches, may have had something to do with the way things ultimately developed. In the end (as stated), only 39 of the planned 50 Graywaters were completed. The Graywater may be one of the rarest of MKII's watches except for the first, low-quantity version of the MKII Tornek Rayville.

Now up to date with the present, we have the availability of the latest of the lineage - The next generation RTW Paradive.

I hope this addition to the passed-down history here adds something useful.

Best Wishes,

|>|>


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## TwentiethCenturyFox

Just recieved a PD Gen 3 what a phenomenal watch! Every aspect of this model is a homerun: fit, finish, case size, movement, lume. I have owned five MKII’s and this is I think my favorite. Well done again Bill!


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## longstride

TwentiethCenturyFox said:


> Just recieved a PD Gen 3 what a phenomenal watch! Every aspect of this model is a homerun: fit, finish, case size, movement, lume. I have owned five MKII's and this is I think my favorite. Well done again Bill!


Yes it's a great piece - it is one of my official 'road' (travel) watches, having spent 2 months overseas while I was traveling/working, I used that 12 hr bezel all the time...


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## spartan6

Copied this over from another thread. Bottom line, any Paradive is an awesome quality watch!

Re: Does the new RTW line dilute the MKII brand?Offering my humble opinion, RTW selections do not dilute the MKII brand.

After a side-by-side comparison of the legacy Paradive circa 2012 and the current RTW they are both MKII watches, great pieces of historical and functional value. The 2012 watch has seen considerable use in the desert, and prolonged periods immersed in salt water. It performs as expected. The RTW has been exposed to salt water, I am looking forward to see what else I can get it into over the next couple of months.

The enclosed pics just give a quick visual comparison. Here are my macro-level points.


Case-consistent, no difference observed
Crown- consistent, no difference observed
Bezel- movement is looser but solid clicks on the turn, insert and lume is consistent. Waiting to see if bumps adjust the GMT setting.
Dial- consistent, no difference observed
Movement- I mostly own ETA, or swiss brand in house movements. I did a quick 10 second video to show the side by side ETA and SEIKO second movement, no significant difference, obviously the ETA is a little smoother. The critical point is both movements are reliable work horses.

There are also some intangibles to owning a MKII, like other watch brands of your own preference. Knowing the company takes it time, and some would think a little more time on top of that ;-) to produce a quality timepiece in a price bracket acceptable on the current watch market.

The price factor is interesting. It has to remain in that sweet spot where you know quality components and service produce a quality timepiece. However, not to expensive where you would think about putting that little extra toward the more widely known brands e.g. Rolex, Omega, Tudor etc.

As with all brands there may be issues with a new model, it is how that company handles the issue that makes the difference. I think MK II has addressed this topic several times, and made changes to meet the demand.

Most people that purchase or are issued a tool type watch are not too concerned about some things that watch aficionados are critical about. They just want it to work and take a beating. The fact that it looks great on the wrist and starts conversations is a plus&#8230;sometimes!


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## longstride

Thanks for the input. An interesting comparo, it's interesting how little difference there is between them.



spartan6 said:


> *Copied this over from another thread. Bottom line, any Paradive is an awesome quality watch!
> 
> Re: Does the new RTW line dilute the MKII brand?*
> 
> Offering my humble opinion, RTW selections do not dilute the MKII brand.
> 
> After a side-by-side comparison of the legacy Paradive circa 2012 and the current RTW they are both MKII watches, great pieces of historical and functional value. The 2012 watch has seen considerable use in the desert, and prolonged periods immersed in salt water. It performs as expected. The RTW has been exposed to salt water, I am looking forward to see what else I can get it into over the next couple of months.
> 
> The enclosed pics just give a quick visual comparison. Here are my macro-level points.
> 
> 
> Case-consistent, no difference observed
> Crown- consistent, no difference observed
> Bezel- movement is looser but solid clicks on the turn, insert and lume is consistent. Waiting to see if bumps adjust the GMT setting.
> Dial- consistent, no difference observed
> Movement- I mostly own ETA, or swiss brand in house movements. I did a quick 10 second video to show the side by side ETA and SEIKO second movement, no significant difference, obviously the ETA is a little smoother. The critical point is both movements are reliable work horses.
> 
> There are also some intangibles to owning a MKII, like other watch brands of your own preference. Knowing the company takes it time, and some would think a little more time on top of that ;-) to produce a quality timepiece in a price bracket acceptable on the current watch market.
> 
> The price factor is interesting. It has to remain in that sweet spot where you know quality components and service produce a quality timepiece. However, not to expensive where you would think about putting that little extra toward the more widely known brands e.g. Rolex, Omega, Tudor etc.
> 
> As with all brands there may be issues with a new model, it is how that company handles the issue that makes the difference. I think MK II has addressed this topic several times, and made changes to meet the demand.
> 
> Most people that purchase or are issued a tool type watch are not too concerned about some things that watch aficionados are critical about. They just want it to work and take a beating. The fact that it looks great on the wrist and starts conversations is a plus&#8230;sometimes!


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## Longbow072

Little Lume shot of the RTW for those wondering.


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## longstride

A Bund is a good option...


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## militaryfan

Will this case size be too big for us 6.5 inch wristers?


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## MrDagon007

militaryfan said:


> Will this case size be too big for us 6.5 inch wristers?


In my gtg group two guys with 6-6.5" wrists tried mine and they were ok with the size.


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## militaryfan

Ok I just got mine this week and I am loving the look, the size, and the feel on the wrist but I gotta ask one thing just for my own piece of mind - is the bezel meant to feel kinda cheap when rotating it? And is a little bit of bezel play normal for this model?


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## longstride

The bezel on mine does not feel 'cheap' the spring is not as firm as some watches that I have, it moves smoothly - it is not Rolex precise but seems just fine, mine is also an early production watch.


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## militaryfan

I notice that when rotating the bezel at a steady pace it starts off rotating at what feels like 120 clicks, and then it will get to a section where it feels like it's then rotating at 60 clicks if you can get what I'm saying. 

I'm not having a go at the watch I absolutely love it but was just curious if this bezel behaviour is normal or not considering all other factors of the timepiece are so polished, so stellar.


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## gr8sw

it's not the tightest or most precise bezel, but it is solid and similar to the original Benrus in that way


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## alangloi

fyi: ordered a RTW Paradive 3 (Fat-Bar) on the 17th of July, and received it today, the 26th of July. That's 10 consecutive days. Considering that this watch is from the MKII company, that is light-speed delivery.


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## JCartwright77

I am also curious on the acrylic bezel, having owned only ceramic and aluminum. Actually I did have a seiko 5 briefly with acrylic bezel...I could definitely see that being a scratch monster.


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## alangloi

JCartwright77 said:


> I am also curious on the acrylic bezel, having owned only ceramic and aluminum. Actually I did have a seiko 5 briefly with acrylic bezel...I could definitely see that being a scratch monster.


I looked pretty far back at previous postings, and I recall various scratch remedies to use on an acrylic bezel. Including using a pencil eraser. I think most suggested using polywatch plastic polish for the acrylic bezel. As far as being a scratch magnet, it is probably less so than having a polished bracelet or a polished stainless watch/bezel.

I have had my PD Gen 3 for three months and no major scratches, but I try to avoid banging on it, to include door frames and grocery shopping carts.
I do think the acrylic bezel will probably naturally age faster than the aluminum bezel, but that is different than dinging the bezel up while wearing it.


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## alangloi

JCartwright77 said:


> I am also curious on the acrylic bezel, having owned only ceramic and aluminum. Actually I did have a seiko 5 briefly with acrylic bezel...I could definitely see that being a scratch monster.


I looked pretty far back at previous postings, and I recall various scratch remedies to use on an acrylic bezel. Including using a pencil eraser. I think most suggested using polywatch plastic polish for the acrylic bezel. As far as being a scratch magnet, it is probably less so than having a polished bracelet or a polished stainless watch/bezel.

I have had my PD Gen 3 for three months and no major scratches, but I try to avoid banging on it, to include door frames and grocery shopping carts.
I do think the acrylic bezel will probably naturally age faster than the aluminum bezel, but that is different than dinging the bezel up while wearing it.


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## alangloi

Sorry about the double post, that is the second time I have done that. please delete one of those.


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## MKN

Hi guys. Great looking watches. I have a hard time determining how this model “wears” - would any of you mind comparing it with a Turtle, Damasko DA4x or seamaster 2254? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrDagon007

MadsNilsson said:


> Hi guys. Great looking watches. I have a hard time determining how this model "wears" - would any of you mind comparing it with a Turtle, Damasko DA4x or seamaster 2254?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have a damasko 373, wears roughly similar to a 4x. I trued a turtle before
The paradive wears rather slender, that is the feel I get. The damasko and definitely the turtle feel chunkier in a way not evident from the numbers.
Btw I recommend the rubber strap option. Not cheap but the strap is world class in soft comfort.


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## MKN

MrDagon007 said:


> I have a damasko 373, wears roughly similar to a 4x. I trued a turtle before
> The paradive wears rather slender, that is the feel I get. The damasko and definitely the turtle feel chunkier in a way not evident from the numbers.
> Btw I recommend the rubber strap option. Not cheap but the strap is world class in soft comfort.


Thanks ! Any chance for a comparison shot?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MrDagon007

MadsNilsson said:


> Thanks ! Any chance for a comparison shot?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sorry missed this.


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## alangloi

re: acrylic bezel insert - the New York Post had a article today on today's acrylic - https://nypost.com/2018/11/14/top-designers-embrace-plastic-material-once-derided-as-tacky/


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## vandergl

I still love this PD! It's such a great watch.


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## ggVGd

Has anyone ordered one recently? How is the bezel action?


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## Darwin

ggVGd said:


> Has anyone ordered one recently? How is the bezel action?


My Paradive RTW is from the first run done in the fall of 2017. The bezel action is very similar to that on my Sinn EZM-3, if that helps at all. If feels a bit... loose? but is precise and does not move once "set".

Full disclosure, Bill re-built this watch after I sent it in in Nov.2017 to correct the bezel action. Did the work very quickly and great communication throughout. Fast shipping back to me in Canada.


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## ggVGd

Darwin said:


> My Paradive RTW is from the first run done in the fall of 2017. The bezel action is very similar to that on my Sinn EZM-3, if that helps at all. If feels a bit... loose? but is precise and does not move once "set".
> 
> Full disclosure, Bill re-built this watch after I sent it in in Nov.2017 to correct the bezel action. Did the work very quickly and great communication throughout. Fast shipping back to me in Canada.


Thanks for the info. I can deal with a less than firm bezel. It was slop that I was worried about.


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## ApacheDriver

I've had 3...the last one (which I bought used here on the forum) felt okay, but it was reported to me (by the new owner after I flipped it) that the bezel spring broke almost immediately after he received it. He sent it back to MKii, not sure if Bill covered it under/out of warranty. The failure did surprise me, as the watch had lived an easy life. My most recent RTW PD's bezel action was among the best I've felt.


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## CaptTed

Have the latest PD, and I like it (not the fat holes version though). I’m still struggling to find the right Nato for it. I like thicker, longer 5 ring straps (Heavy Duty XL), and have only found one really to my liking and it’s on my SKX007 (wider lugs). But the watch is great, I have the no date version acrylic 12 hour bezel. Solid. Comfortable. Durable.


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## longstride

CaptTed said:


> Have the latest PD, and I like it (not the fat holes version though). I'm still struggling to find the right Nato for it. I like thicker, longer 5 ring straps (Heavy Duty XL), and have only found one really to my liking and it's on my SKX007 (wider lugs). But the watch is great, I have the no date version acrylic 12 hour bezel. Solid. Comfortable. Durable.


Try NATO strap Co and look at their XII series- I think you will find something also I think this week is their 'Black Friday' week sale.


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## longstride

Get one you will like it!


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## itsajobar

Does anyone know when they will ever restock paradives? I emailed their office and they said they have no immediate timeframe in the future. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheMeasure

itsajobar said:


> Does anyone know when they will ever restock paradives? I emailed their office and they said they have no immediate timeframe in the future.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Unfortunately I don't think anyone here has the inside track on dates. I know MKII posted a Covid-19 status update over the weekend. I didn't see the Paradive specifically mentioned in there. However he did mention there being potential impacts to timelines from Japan as that's where the RTW line is built.


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## TJ Boogie

I'm sure they're swamped. Per the notice, Bill's working from home apparently, as are Jim and Katie. I'd absolutely love pick up a Nassau if they're ever offered again, a PD3, and I just got in the next 15 releases of the Project 300 (and preorder of the TR). MKII's really fascinating.


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