# A better threadlocker for screw pins on watches....



## Yao (Dec 12, 2006)

Since I started offering the Sea Fighter, my first watch using screw pins, I have been looking for an alternative to Loctite. Loctite, if I am not mistaken, is the industry standard for locking screw pins on watch cases and bracelets. Over the last year I found that Loctite can be somewhat unpredictable. Depending on how much you use and if it stays where you applied it you can get a very strong bond, just right or no bond at all. I have probably spent more than a $100 on different types of Loctite trying to find something that would work just right and consistently so.

Ideally I was trying to find something that would act a lot like those bolts and nuts you find on certain types of equipment or furniture. There are bolts that have a nylon coating on the inside that resist loosening to due to vibration. Here is a set from an image I grabbed off the web:










Also if you have ever bought a chair from Costco that you have had to put together yourself you will notice that the bolts for these chairs are pre-coated with some sort of plastic. I never actually understood what that was for exactly until I found a threadlocker called "Vibra-Tite" by ND Industries, Inc. This material is essentially acrylic that has been liquefied by some pretty nasty chemicals and has a consistency of warm honey.

Essentially you apply it to the screw and let it air dry for about 30 minutes. Then you install the screw on to the screw pin. It's relatively easy to use since the threadlocker is already dry when you actually install the screw. It is also removable and it claims to be reusable. The part about it being reusable is a bit of a stretch. After one or two "uses" you will have to re-apply it. I have found in my trials here that it provides just enough friction to keep the screw from unscrewing itself if the screw pin free floats in the lugs (Sea Fighter) or provides enough friction to make the strap rotate around the screw pin if the screw pin is actually grabbing onto the case body (LRRP). It is conceivable though that if the strap is a really tight fit on the screw pin it still might create enough friction to loosen the latter. However even then the threadlocker provides enough friction for the screw to stop unscrewing itself.

 


The only real problem with this stuff is that it's volatile in its liquid/uncured form and the smallest container it is sold in costs $18. This means that I can't include any with the watches that I ship. Therefore I will continue to include Loctite although it won't work as well or consistently as Vibra-Tite.

I can only guess that it's not widely used in the watch industry because it was developed by an American company and is not distributed or well known in Europe. If anyone else has any thoughts about its suitability please let me know. There is always a chance that I am missing something here. This material meets US military MIS-28867 and from what I gather on the web it approved for use on the M1 Abrams tank (NSN-8030-00-163-5792).

Well in any case I hope that this will be useful to those of you that have or love watches with screw pins. We will be using it as the standard threadlocker on the Sea Fighter and the LRRP from this point forward.


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## ScottH (Feb 18, 2007)

*Bill, I've always had great success with Loctite 222...*

which is the low strength formula for small screws. I use it on printing presses and other industrial equipment. The key is that the threads need to be perfectly clean and the Loctite well shaken to get a correct bond. If there is any oil present the bond may fail. For anyone reading this if you have a bracelet screw that you can't turn due to Loctite you can touch the tip of a soldering iron to the screw and the heat will weaken the bond momentarily.


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## Yao (Dec 12, 2006)

*Yes I have used 222....*

and if you aren't careful about the application it can form a bond that makes it difficult to undo when you want to.

The nice thing about this material is that no heat is required to undo the screw and the parts don't have to be primed for it to work.


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## ScottH (Feb 18, 2007)

*I learned a long time ago to use less than you think...*

is necessary. I'll check into the product in your post. It seems to be a good idea. Thanks, Scott


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## GraniteQuarry (Feb 13, 2006)

A mate of mine swears by clear nail varnish! Never tried it myself, but he says it locks 100% solid, yet cracks easily to remove ;-)


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## David Woo (Feb 12, 2006)

I use regular art supply type rubber cement: it may not be as strong as Loctite, but it works well and unscrews easily.
DW


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## Denizen (Jun 30, 2006)

a pretty interesting post, Bill. 

keeping an open mind and looking for better alternatives to the status quo is always a good thing. |>


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## gaijin (Oct 29, 2007)

The Vibra-Tite looks pretty good - here's a link to a pdf from the manufacturer: http://www.ndindustries.com/pdfs/Vibra-TITE VC-3 Original.pdf

I particularly like the properties of Total Resistance to Water and Total Resistance to Sea Water :-!


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## tempus edax rerum (Feb 16, 2009)

timely post for me to read, as I'm just about to contemplate what to threadlock my band in with. I was going to switch from blue loctite to the green loctite, which seemed to be a slightly lower holding force, and is spec'd for fasteners down to M2.

Your vibra-tite product...that looks similar to Henkel's Vibra-Seal product (the maker of loctite)

http://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xch...rentredDotUID=0000000GHE&redDotUID=0000000I3M


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## gaijin (Oct 29, 2007)

tempus edax rerum said:


> Your vibra-tite product...that looks similar to Henkel's Vibra-Seal product (the maker of loctite)
> 
> http://www.henkelna.com/cps/rde/xch...rentredDotUID=0000000GHE&redDotUID=0000000I3M


Vibra-Seal looks like a no-go based on the following from their product manual:

*Directions for use​*LOCTITE® Product Vibra-Seal 503 can be applied directly to pipe threads with any one of several semi-automatic/ automatic application systems. Before applying the product, parts should be free of surface contamination such as oil, grease, dirt, etc. The product is applied to threaded parts by authorized Process Centers throughout the United States who have automatic fastener cleaning, feeding, coating, rust proofing and drying equipment. Quantities can be handled promptly with minimum turnaround time. Sample bolts or nuts should be sent to the nearest authorized converter where they will coat your parts and return to you for evaluation. Contact a Loctite Technical Service Center for an authorized Process Center nearest you. 

.


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## Peter Atwood (Feb 16, 2006)

I like the loctite tubes with the waxy paste version inside. Kinda like Chapstick tubes. Easy to apply and no dripping messes.

I would add though that the Fricker case lug tubes have a screw with a self tightening head on it that develops a slight press fit as you screw it down. Have not had any issues with them loosening yet on any of my Fricker watches.


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## tempus edax rerum (Feb 16, 2009)

gaijin said:


> Vibra-Seal looks like a no-go based on the following from their product manual:
> 
> *Directions for use​*LOCTITE® Product Vibra-Seal 503 can be applied directly to pipe threads with any one of several semi-automatic/ automatic application systems. Before applying the product, parts should be free of surface contamination such as oil, grease, dirt, etc. The product is applied to threaded parts by authorized Process Centers throughout the United States who have automatic fastener cleaning, feeding, coating, rust proofing and drying equipment. Quantities can be handled promptly with minimum turnaround time. Sample bolts or nuts should be sent to the nearest authorized converter where they will coat your parts and return to you for evaluation. Contact a Loctite Technical Service Center for an authorized Process Center nearest you.
> 
> .


Yawoops.  I'm guessing they're not too interested in getting mailed a handful of screw pins at a time.


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## spratte (Feb 21, 2009)

Are the screw pins used in MK II watches a standard size (i.e. the Sea Fighter would use a 22mm screw pin) that can be purchased online?


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## maxpower419 (Nov 11, 2008)

Best of luck with this Bill!

I actually had to cut a spring bar out of my seafighter, because there was no way the screw was coming out... ;-)


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## Yao (Dec 12, 2006)

Really sorry to hear that. So far this method is proving to be much more consistent. Let me know if you need a new one.



maxpower419 said:


> Best of luck with this Bill!
> 
> I actually had to cut a spring bar out of my seafighter, because there was no way the screw was coming out... ;-)


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## JDS (Ohio) (Mar 1, 2007)

Yao said:


> I can only guess that it's not widely used in the watch industry because it was developed by an American company and is not distributed or well known in Europe. ..............
> 
> Well in any case I hope that this will be useful to those of you that have or love watches with screw pins. We will be using it as the standard threadlocker on the Sea Fighter and the LRRP from this point forward.


Sheesh Bill, after looking at the profile/MSDS, I bet it's not used in europe because they won't let it be imported! I thought MEK was banned here in the US already, but I've been out of touch with that sort of thing for awhile.

Make sure you have the right, explosion proof ventilation (no-spark fan motors), a good fire extinguisher, and a phone with speed dial to 911 before you use it. I wouldn't wear polyester or other synthetics either, cotton only, or something flame retardant - wouldn't want our favorite custom watch pusher to be laid up in the burn unit. At least not before the LRRPs and Kingstons get shipped.

So, having ordered a LRRP with bracelet, will there be any screw pins in the bracelet that I need to worry about reapplications? I confess I didn't catch that detail when ordering, or when the LRRP was under discussion.


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## Yao (Dec 12, 2006)

*No you won't have to worry about re-application...*

the screws in the bracelet are designed to come out with only one screw driver and they use Loctite. Those are done in the factory.



JDS (Ohio) said:


> Sheesh Bill, after looking at the profile/MSDS, I bet it's not used in europe because they won't let it be imported! I thought MEK was banned here in the US already, but I've been out of touch with that sort of thing for awhile.
> 
> Make sure you have the right, explosion proof ventilation (no-spark fan motors), a good fire extinguisher, and a phone with speed dial to 911 before you use it. I wouldn't wear polyester or other synthetics either, cotton only, or something flame retardant - wouldn't want our favorite custom watch pusher to be laid up in the burn unit. At least not before the LRRPs and Kingstons get shipped.
> 
> So, having ordered a LRRP with bracelet, will there be any screw pins in the bracelet that I need to worry about reapplications? I confess I didn't catch that detail when ordering, or when the LRRP was under discussion.


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## Tom R (Mar 11, 2006)

I would like to toss this into the mix.

I have a lot of trouble taking those pesky screw pins apart on my bad boy Sea Fighter. This has caused me quite a bit of scratching to the sweet mirror polish finish of the Sea Fighter case. Can we do away with screw bars between the lugs unless absolutely required..... not regarding any ongoing projects of course... just future projects. Taking those little screw heads out of their tubes is a b!tch!!!!!!!!!! :rodekaarto|


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## Yao (Dec 12, 2006)

I really think this new material will solve a lot of the issues. I just wish I had found it sooner.


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## Tom R (Mar 11, 2006)

Bill - none of us has a crystal ball! Improvement over time... innovation... these things are what are making and helping you to build some of the really greatest hard use watches out there.

I'll add this... those screwbars are heavy duty and bad to the bone and they darn sure are not going to pop loose... or likely ever even break.



Yao said:


> I really think this new material will solve a lot of the issues. I just wish I had found it sooner.


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## marchone (Dec 20, 2007)

Going through three years of old threads is educational.

This March 2009 thread gave me answers to other screw pin questions I had. Now to obtain extra screw pins. Anyone here know the correct size of a screw pin for a LRRP? I can send an email to Bill through the CSP if I don't receive an answer here. Thanks.

Here's Bill's rec for an improved thread locker/alternative to Loctite.

Vibra-Tite | High Quality Threadlockers, Adhesives, Sealants & More.


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## gaijin (Oct 29, 2007)

marchone said:


> Going through three years of old threads is educational.
> 
> This March 2009 thread gave me answers to other screw pin questions I had. Now to obtain extra screw pins. Anyone here know the correct size of a screw pin for a LRRP? I can send an email to Bill through the CSP if I don't receive an answer here. Thanks.
> 
> ...


I recommended the Vibra-Tite VC3 back in March, 2009:



gaijin said:


> The Vibra-Tite looks pretty good - here's a link to a pdf from the manufacturer: http://www.ndindustries.com/pdfs/Vibra-TITE VC-3 Original.pdf
> 
> I particularly like the properties of Total Resistance to Water and Total Resistance to Sea Water :-!


The link doesn't work anymore, however, so here's a new link: Vibra-Tite | VC-3 Threadmate - Alternative Threadlocker

And a link to a nice VC-3 Data Sheet: http://www.vibra-tite.com/tds/213_tds.pdf

I use it all the time for bracelet screws and lug screwbars - it works very well. 

HTH


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## marchone (Dec 20, 2007)

Thanks for the update. Any info on LRRP screw pin size?


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## TheDude (Jan 27, 2009)

I would prefer to see something along the lines of the Panerai quick change system...






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