# Buying a Watch Winder: Thought process & Not All TPD are equal



## grimmy (Feb 4, 2018)

My First post of significant substance, I hope.

The why: I, just like many automatic watch owners, is in the market for an automatic watch winder.

Step 1 was to determine what I needed. Coming from an engineering career, I looked at the requirements of the watch going onto the winder, and future collection peices. So, that means my Alpina with an SW200 movement requires 650 TPD, and future watch buys such as Omega (my goal) and Breitling and Rolex range between 650-800 TPD, with the occasional 900.

Conclusion, I need a watch winder that has adjustments for 650 to 800 TPD. I've read here that it's best to shoot for 75% or so of the targe TPD, so ideally I'm looking for 487-675 TPD for the 75%.

I personally would prefer a glass front to keep the dust off, as my Alpina during the summer months is not going to be a daily wear as I work in the field on construction sites mostly during the summer. I prefer wood construciton, I do despise cheap plastic. I have an Ecodrive (heirloom item) which would also enjoy storage or time on the winder (static) and a clear glass to allow light to keep it charged.

So, TPD, Wood, Glass front/top, double/dual.

Then there is budget. I've $200-400 CAD to spend. I'd like to buy an Orbita or a Wolf winder, but a dual winder comes with a significant price point, especially when you get into wood finishes. I just don't perceive the value though, despite many just saying spend the money and get the best, in that very few explain why it's the best, other than throwing around the word quality. For me, it's an electronic device. It is going to fail and break down, it is just a question of time. I expect some service and repair after a few years of use, even if a top dollar brand.

So I had a look at good old Amazon, and reading reviews here and elsewhere. A lot of what is out there is chinese, let's be honest, some of it is junk.

I gave the chinese an honest college try though, seeing if any met my requirements. The #1 thing is to not over wind the watch. And this is where not all TPD are equal.

A lot of chinese made stuff disguise their TPD, by descriping the sequence. 2 minutes clockwise, 6 minutes pause, rinse, repeat, and having a number of settings to chose from.

Previously discussed here, is how some have calculated the chinese TPD, and have noticed that they overwind excessively. Some winders get into to the 3000 TPD realm. It's borderline nuts.

That previously mentioned 2 turn, 6 rest? well that's an 8 minute cycle. That 8 min cycle will repeat 180 times in a 24 hour day. The rotor turns at a rate of 1 rotation per 6.5 seconds, or 9.2 Rotations per minute. So, 2 turn 6 rest would equate to 1656 TPD. That's a LOT and is twice what most swiss automatic watches need for power.

So I started shopping around for watch winders which actually called out what they are turning at. 
But some came up, and didn't make sense.
Take this Firway Watch winder on Amazon: 
https://www.amazon.ca/FIRWAY-Automa...&qid=1521410489&sr=1-26&keywords=watch+winder
The descriptions says it has 650, 750, and 850 TPD modes.
And it also provides the description:
Modes:
1.rotate clockwise for 2 min, pause 6 min,repeat. 
2.counter-clockwise 2 min,pause 6 min,repeat. 
3.rotate clockwise for 2 min, pause 6 min,counter-clockwise 2 min,pause 6 min,repeat. 
4.rotate clockwise for 5 min,then counter-clockwise 5 min,pause 6 min,repeat.
Mode 1 actually is running at 3312 TPD, NOT 650.

I found numerous Diplomat (chinese roll your dice junk from what I can see) timers which now advertise their being 650 to 800 TPD, but if you google for the manuals, the program description is very different. This tells me that watch owners are wisening up and doing the math, and the retailers are fudging the numbers with the same high-winding watch winders. Say 650, ship it out the door, it's not their watch, nor would a defect in the watch present itself in the first year. Then there are those that don't even check or care, and are putting a significant valued item on the winder, with the understanding that the winder is to prolong life, not cause maintenance issues.

So what does this all mean? if you buy chinese, make sure it has a range of adjustment and time it and adjust it to match your requirements.

Maybe that's what the unsaid quality thing is: Wolf and Optima actually perform as advertised. That said, all of Wolf's winders except for the programmable units where the user can dial in the TPD, would overwind most swiss watches. The Heritage series winds at a fixed 900 TPD, which is too much for pretty much every ETA and Sellita or Rolex movement on the market. So, basically a top brand item that costs $400 bucks for something that will break your watch. It's only when you get into the higher end Wolf Viceroy and Meridian and (the lower end units are still a pretty penny) where you can dial them in that you can have some faith in accuracy of winding.

Conclusion? Trust no one. Test a watch winder on receipt and time it - is it performing as advertised? Me? I'll just keep on shopping.

Edit:
PS: Here's a great example of where the instructions don't make sense.
Kendal watch winder, with TDP settings. Boy i had to dig a little to find instructions for this unit.
Unit runs for 12 hours through program, and pauses for 12 hours.
It's 650 TPD setting though? on for 10.5 mins, off for 49.5 mins. So it runs for 10.5 per hour, for 12 hours. Thats 126 minutes of run time, at 6.5-8.5 seconds per rotation. Watching videos it seems the larger the platter (multiwatch on same platter) the slower the rotation. Singles are 6.5 seconds for a rotation, larger are 8- 8.5 seconds. 6.5 sec/ rotation = 9.2 Rotations per min. 9.2 x 126 = 1159.2 TDP. So its running almost twice the indicated TDP.


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## watchabit (Feb 27, 2012)

retired?


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## grimmy (Feb 4, 2018)

watchabit said:


> retired?


Me? No. Just lots of attention to detail. My work keeps me quite busy.


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## Chronophasia (Mar 2, 2018)

Your mileage may vary, but I've had pretty bad luck keeping an ecodrive charged from within a glass case. It's true they can stay charged even if they don't receive any direct (that is, not through any glass) sunlight but if you don't wear the watch for an extended period of time, it is prone to dying if it is just in a room. It's worth mentioning that glass does block a lot of UV.

The reason for this is that ecodrives charge MUCH faster off direct sunlight. If you live in a cold climate or are prone to wearing only long sleeves, odds are your watch will literally never see the light of day in any substantial way.

The manual specifies that the watch needs about 5-6 hours of sunlight per month to remain charged. It also takes an extremely long period of time to get the watch to charge once it is dead. I've had to leave mine in the bathroom (with 4 bright lights) for 6 hours before.

In my experience, an ecodrive watch is the WORST possible watch to get for a watch collector that has a collection of watches large enough to wear the ecodrive might not be a regularly worn watch.
I'm sure there are some watch cases that have a light charging system built in, but I've not personally seen any. 

I really should just sell my ecodrive. It's not worth much though, so there's not much point.


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## Grinny456 (Jun 3, 2013)

Hi Grimmy, This is Grinny!!!

I am looking for a winder to keep my Omega Moonphase accurate... Any recommendations? I would like to spend as little as possible since all the $$ went onto the watch.


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## Polypterus (Jan 14, 2018)

Thanks for a very informative post! I've been hesitant to add a winder to my collection - concerns with overwinding / damage, magnetic shielding, cost v. utility etc. and was interested to see the details of another's decision process.

P


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## Tango Alpha (Apr 16, 2018)

Interesting discussion.....going to keep an eye on this thread. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## grimmy (Feb 4, 2018)

Sorry for the delay in responding, I dont check this sub forum often. 

To the query about what watch wonder to buy, when a majority of funds already went into the watch itself - my reply is to save up. My research shows that almost all sub-$200 watch wonders are Chinese or overwind. Even in cases like Wolfs entry level winders, they will overwind most watches, as discussed in my original post.

So, you can buy a cheaper Chinese winder and modify it by adding a rheostat or resistors to slow down the motors, or change the motor pulley size to slow down the watch hold assembly rotation. You could also put the watch winder on a wall socket timer, so it only receives power a few hours a day, thereby ensuring it doesn't over wind. Or you can buy used or save up and buy a new winder that is programmable and correctly winds at the desired winding rate.

Note, the wall socket timer only works with winders which have a always on power switch. Digital winders often turn off when power is terminated and restored.


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