# Sinn u1 vs bremont mb2 or u2 price vs what you get



## JAXX10

Hey guys so gonna start saving for the next watch. Now let me preface this as I will be wearing this watch as an everyday watch. It will be banged up and scarred. So what do y'all think is the best bang for the money. The sinn u1 or either of the bremont. I know the price difference is pretty large but they are both tough watches. What makes the bremont so much better or more expensive? Thanks for the help guys


----------



## TBD

U1 SDR. More distinctive, extremely rugged, and better value.

TBD


----------



## Janne

Sinn. 
You decide which Sinn you prefer. The iconic (imho ugly) U1, or the more classic looking U2 with UTC function plus more tech.

1: Sinn is considerably cheaper
1B: Sinn have a nice option of Silicone or steel bands
2: Same movement make is used, Top grade for Sinn, COSC (I think) for the Bremont
3: Sinn uses better steel
4: Sinn U2 has some cool tech, Ar filled, CuSO4 capsules
5: Sinn have the option of steel coloured watch, SDR (bezel PVD) or full PVD.
Plus one you can order as Special, PVD case and steel coloured bezel.

5; Bremont looks flashier.
6: Bremont is an aspiring luxury watch manufacturer, maybe better 2nd hand value

The fit and finish is very good on both.


----------



## JAXX10

So seems like the sinn is better for abuse and beatings for the money. I can see that.


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> 1B: Sinn have a nice option of Silicone or steel bands
> 2: Same movement make is used, Top grade for Sinn, COSC (I think) for the Bremont
> 3: Sinn uses better steel
> 4: Sinn U2 has some cool tech, Ar filled, CuSO4 capsules
> 5: Sinn have the option of steel coloured watch, SDR (bezel PVD) or full PVD.
> Plus one you can order as Special, PVD case and steel coloured bezel.


-You have the option to use a rubber strap on the MB2, I did it yesterday.
-The Bremont movement (arguments about the movement mods aside, but all are COSC as you've said) uses a special rotor mount to absorb vibrations
-Sinn does not use better steel, unless you can actually prove that statement
-The anti-shock, roto-click bezel, better hardening with a more versatile finish, 100m push down crown that can be taken down to 100m, proven in MB test rigs, anodised aluminium barrel which is resistant to corrosive sea fog, proven up to 70000 ft and at temps of -80ºc
-You have the choice of three barrel colours (PVD case as well if you go for the Bremont U2.

Yes both are very good watches, but the MB2 is proven to be tougher beyond what will normally be experienced - that's the reason why it has the MB branding. I personally would pitch the Sinn 857 UTC or Damasko DK10 against the MB2/U2 models myself but that's just me! 

VFM, if you want the modern version of a Speedie Moonwatch that passed tests that competitors didn't (as stated by Martin Baker themselves rather than Bremont) then go for the MB2.


----------



## JAXX10

Haha now it's a toughy. I could save 3/4 and go for a sinn. Or go all out and never buy a watch again with bremont. (won't ever be able to afford another haha)


----------



## bydandie

JAXX10 said:


> Haha now it's a toughy. I could save 3/4 and go for a sinn. Or go all out and never buy a watch again with bremont. (won't ever be able to afford another haha)


The choice between Sinn and Bremont is tough, both are great brands but there is a reason why military pilots are flocking to Bremont (Apache squadrons, RAF Typhoon pilots, C17 pilots, U2 pilots, US Navy Test Pilots etc) rather than Breitling. The finish of the hardened Bremont cases is like brushed steel rather than the flatter finish to the Sinn cases from SUG or the Damasko cases. Bremont truly is a brand that's tested beyond endurance, where Sinn is capable but not tested.

For me, I've met the English brothers and that adds to the allure of the brand; that said, an 857 UTC has most of the great tech from Sinn for a stunning price.


----------



## Spit161

The Bremont MBII. Any day of the week.
Also, as bydandie has mentioned - Nick and Giles ( The founders ) are top quality men, and are a pleasure to speak to.

cheers.


----------



## LuvWatches14

Hello Everyone, This is my first post, I am a newbie to WUS , just wanted to say Hello to everyone, and I hope to become a long time member of this Awesome Site and hopefully soon to be a Sinn U1 Fully Teg. owner.


----------



## Crusader

Welcome to our little corner of the internet, LuvWatches14 !


----------



## Spit161

Welcome to the forum! 
PS, post pictures of your Sinn when it arrives!

cheers.


----------



## LuvWatches14

Thanks Crusader! Hey Spit161, sorry what I meant to say is I am Looking to buy one, hopefully a gently Sinn U1 Full Teg with Bracelet on this forum if anyone is looking to get rid of one??


----------



## Janne

bydandie said:


> -You have the option to use a rubber strap on the MB2, I did it yesterday.
> -The Bremont movement (arguments about the movement mods aside, but all are COSC as you've said) uses a special rotor mount to absorb vibrations
> -Sinn does not use better steel, unless you can actually prove that statement
> -The anti-shock, roto-click bezel, better hardening with a more versatile finish, 100m push down crown that can be taken down to 100m, proven in MB test rigs, anodised aluminium barrel which is resistant to corrosive sea fog, proven up to 70000 ft and at temps of -80ºc
> -You have the choice of three barrel colours (PVD case as well if you go for the Bremont U2.
> 
> Yes both are very good watches, but the MB2 is proven to be tougher beyond what will normally be experienced - that's the reason why it has the MB branding. I personally would pitch the Sinn 857 UTC or Damasko DK10 against the MB2/U2 models myself but that's just me!


Not sure how the rotor mount will improve the overall functuality and durability of the movement, as the rotor seldom gives problems.

The steel Sinn uses for the U-series - use the search function. It is vastly superior in its antimagnetic and anti corrosive properties to both the standard 316L steel and the Aluminium alloy Bremont (and 99.99% of all watch manufacturers) use.

Better hardening? Why? How? 
1800 HV ot enough?
Versatile finish? Same between both brands. Sinn chose to bead blast it. It can be treated with a suitable medium, and polished, brushed, what you want. Just like the Bremont.

100m push down crown - Each Sinn U is certified by German LLoyd to go down 1000/2000m. Each Bremont is NOT certified

On the U1000, the pushers are operable down to 1000meters

Aluminium is far less corrosion resistant than even the normal 316L steel. Anodised or not. And the Anidised layer will wear off rapidly, specially on the tops of the knurling.
Is sea fog extra corrosive? I had not a clue.

Bought by Pilots etc?
I suspect they got it for a really good price. Good marketing.
In fact, superb marketing!


----------



## Janne

Spit161 said:


> The Bremont MBII. Any day of the week.
> Also, as bydandie has mentioned - Nick and Giles ( The founders ) are top quality men, and are a pleasure to speak to.
> 
> cheers.


Excellent reason to buy one of their watches!!


----------



## JAXX10

Haha well this isn't helping. I'm glad there both good watches though


----------



## Janne

The watches that are mentioned here are all very capable.
I forgot to mention that theU-series will function between -45 and +80 celsius and is also low pressure resistant.
I think if you compare the products made by those watchmanufacturers (Sinn and Bremont) with, say, Rolex, you will get much more watch for your money.

Biggest bang for your money?
Sinn U2


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> The watches that are mentioned here are all very capable.
> I forgot to mention that theU-series will function between -45 and +80 celsius and is also low pressure resistant.
> I think if you compare the products made by those watchmanufacturers (Sinn and Bremont) with, say, Rolex, you will get much more watch for your money.
> 
> Biggest bang for your money?
> Sinn U2


He didn't actually ask about the Sinn U2, but the Bremont U2. I'm surprised that you don't see the 857 UTC as being better value though?


----------



## Janne

Strange Bremont names a watch U2 when the name ia already taken....
The rotor is standard. It is the movement that sits in a elastomer cage.

That is on the plus side for Bremont.

I do not mention the 857 because the OP asks about the U1.
I mentioned the U2 because I think the U1 is so goddamn ugly.
The 857 is nice too....
But, if I may transgress the choices, I would in that case go for the 203 Arctis. 
Love that dial colour..


----------



## LFCRules

Bang for buck......depends how much buck you have ;-)

I've actually got both the U1 and a MBII, and whilst they are dramatically different in price, I really do enjoy wearing either. I can look at both and they both bring a smile to my face. Honestly, I can look at both, and appreciate the work and effort which has gone in to them and realise with both their strengths, they could last a life time.

The U1 does seem to some to be a marmite watch with it's lego hands, but seeing it in person, it looks amazing, I think the hands just make it pop....once you clean up the AR coating ;-)

As for the MBII, it's completely different. It's got no "heritage", not "history", but it's different, it's unique, it's got a story. The overall styling has obviously taken time to get right, and it just fits, and with the coloured barrel's, tops it off perfectly. The sculptured lugs as well are unique to me.

Both watches are pricey, but in reality, absolutely noone (us WIS are few and far between) I know, knows what I'm wearing, how expensive they are, but that's fine with me, I can still lift my wrist and enjoy them both. It's just a shame I ain't got more arms to wear all my watches at the same time :-d


----------



## JAXX10

Now that I look at it more I do like the 857 utc. How come y'all like it more than the u1. Is it the hands? Also to the previous poster. Bremont named the u2 watch after the u2 spy plane as they were the ones testing it and using it


----------



## bydandie

JAXX10 said:


> Bremont named the u2 watch after the u2 spy plane as they were the ones testing it and using it


Sorry, the U2 was named after the U2 spyplane as the squadron commissioned the piece. All testing was done by Martin Baker, the only specific testing for the U2 was pressure up to 700000ft and temp changes.

@janne the rotor mount is custom mate, google it if you don't believe me and see it's clearly stated on the Bremont website. Also, try winding the MB2 movement and tell me it's not modified as it has the smoothest winding action of any 2824/2836 movement I've seen and I've owned three watches with top and one with COSC movements.


----------



## Janne

I know know the connection with the Lockheed U-2. Still, 2 watches called U2?
Yes, the hands is what I dislike on the U1.

Edit: In fact, the Bremont is called U-2. Just like the aircraft!
Not U2.
If they did, I suspect Mr Schmidt would have called.

I am unable to find the info about the rotor? That is why I wrote what I did.
Only a watchmaker can tell us how much modification Bremont did/ordered from ETA. A lot of the feeling in winding is due to the seals and construction. Also the size and surface treatment of the crown. 
My Breitling feels very much different from my Laco "Support Laco" , and I_ think_they are both ETA 7750


----------



## Nolans

Sinn U2 for me, great value for a very well finished watch.


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> I am unable to find the info about the rotor? That is why I wrote what I did.
> Only a watchmaker can tell us how much modification Bremont did/ordered from ETA. A lot of the feeling in winding is due to the seals and construction. Also the size and surface treatment of the crown.
> My Breitling feels very much different from my Laco "Support Laco" , and I_ think_they are both ETA 7750


Check the link here and the 'How it works' tab for the use of a special shock absorbing rotor (again from Martin Baker's website).

The difference between a Breitling movement and a Laco one is the modifications they as well isn't it? I'm not going to get into any more argument than that, as I can show you what I've been told, but most people would rather believe that all watches are the same.


----------



## Janne

I think those questions can best be answered by a watchmaker that has taken apart the U-2 watch. Look on the rotor center. Then look on the same part on an ETA movement. 


The site you refer to has quite a few wrong statements, unfortunately. It seems the person that penned that does not have much knowledge about watches. 
It does not matter. 
There is a good thread about the modifications of ETA movements. I recommend you read it. Interesting!


----------



## bydandie

@Janne, I have read that thread and it's as much smoke and mirrors in itself as the exposé it purports to be. It makes an assumption that you can tell what goes into a movement merely by looking at it and comparing the assumptions against a parts catalogue. 

Let's not forget one thing, Andrew Martin from Martin Baker has stated in an interview with QP magazine that Bremont approached him initially and he told them to go away until they'd established themselves; in the meantime he stated that he assessed competitors brands (he didn't name them) and they failed the tests he put his ejection seats through. 

Bremont then came back and he agreed to work with them, their 'normal' watches faired far better, but there were still issues with vibrations which travelled through the screw-down crown and the rotor. They therefore used a push-down crown, still rated at 100m and the anti-shock mount and rotor.

From their tests, they also found that three-handers fare better than chronos and that watches are more shock-resistant when fully wound than when near the end of the power reserve. 

Most of the above information comes from an interview in QP magazine, others are a result of conversations with the English brothers.


----------



## JAXX10

The more I look at watches the more I like the damasko and the sinn 857utc


----------



## bydandie

JAXX10 said:


> The more I look at watches the more I like the damasko and the sinn 857utc


And you can't go wrong with either, I picked the Damasko DA47 ahead of the 857 purely for the lume dial but you get a bracelet with the Sinn. :thumbup:


----------



## Janne

Both Sinn and Bremont do something not many manufacturers do, disregarding the size of the company:
Innovation.

So, OP, it does not matter which of your suggested watches you decide to buy, you will have a really qood quality watch!

I just realised one thing: You are asking about a Pilots watch (Bremont) and a Diving watch (Sinn U-series).



Bydandie! your comment about the vibrations transferring to the crown/stem is interesting. Last year, in a Bremont thread, I wondered if and how they solved that problem!

You gave me the answer. Thanks!


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> Both Sinn and Bremont do something not many manufacturers do, disregarding the size of the company:
> Innovation.
> 
> So, OP, it does not matter which of your suggested watches you decide to buy, you will have a really qood quality watch!
> 
> I just realised one thing: You are asking about a Pilots watch (Bremont) and a Diving watch (Sinn U-series).
> 
> Bydandie! your comment about the vibrations transferring to the crown/stem is interesting. Last year, in a Bremont thread, I wondered if and how they solved that problem!
> 
> You gave me the answer. Thanks!


Nae bother mate!


----------



## HercDriver

bydandie said:


> The choice between Sinn and Bremont is tough, both are great brands but *there is a reason why military pilots are flocking to Bremont (Apache squadrons, RAF Typhoon pilots, C17 pilots, U2 pilots, US Navy Test Pilots etc)* rather than Breitling. The finish of the hardened Bremont cases is like brushed steel rather than the flatter finish to the Sinn cases from SUG or the Damasko cases. Bremont truly is a brand that's tested beyond endurance, where Sinn is capable but not tested.
> 
> For me, I've met the English brothers and that adds to the allure of the brand; that said, an 857 UTC has most of the great tech from Sinn for a stunning price.


It could be the great discounts offered (50% off), as well and the choice of watches (I think you can get just about any watch), while I believe the Breitling choices are limited to a few of their quartz watches.


----------



## Spit161

HercDriver said:


> While I believe the Breitling choices are limited to a few of their quartz watches.


I don't believe this to be correct. Breitling give a military discount on all their watches, but only the Emergency and the Aerospace ( and formally the B-1) are offered with personalised dials direct to squadrons.

Cheers.


----------



## HercDriver

Spit161 said:


> I don't believe this to be correct. Breitling give a military discount on all their watches, but only the Emergency and the Aerospace ( and formally the B-1) are offered with personalised dials direct to squadrons.
> 
> Cheers.


It was the personalized dial I was speaking about for both Bremont and Breitling. I wasn't aware of any military discount on Breitlings, but would love to hear what they offer.


----------



## Spit161

HercDriver said:


> It was the personalized dial I was speaking about for both Bremont and Breitling. I wasn't aware of any military discount on Breitlings, but would love to hear what they offer.


I believe the discount is 25%. I'm just going on what military friends have told me, as they have Breitlings that they got with military discount.

cheers.


----------



## Janne

I was never offered any discount by anybody on anything when I was in the Armed Forces..


I love the Tissot Sea Ouch club logo!

I have stepped many times on Sea Urchins.
Mega Sea Ouch!!
;-):-d


----------



## bydandie

HercDriver said:


> It could be the great discounts offered (50% off), as well and the choice of watches (I think you can get just about any watch), while I believe the Breitling choices are limited to a few of their quartz watches.


I don't believe this to be the case either, a small discount has been offered for the C17 with the MB1 getting a substantial discount according to CaptLeslie on the Bremont forums. It makes sense to give the armed forces the 30% that they surely give the ADs off though for a watch that will never be sold there.


----------



## Spit161

Janne said:


> I love the Tissot Sea Ouch club logo!
> I have stepped many times on Sea Urchins.


It's no a Sea Ouch, its a Sea Touch! ;-):-d
It's a great watch. Well recommended.

cheers.


----------



## HercDriver

bydandie said:


> I don't believe this to be the case either, a small discount has been offered for the C17 with the MB1 getting a substantial discount according to CaptLeslie on the Bremont forums. It makes sense to give the armed forces the 30% that they surely give the ADs off though for a watch that will never be sold there.


To be honest, I did not speak directly with Bremont - a mate on a military aviation forum I frequent was looking for nine other guys go in with on a group purchase, and he indicated he had corresponded with someone from Bremont and that it was 50% off retail.


----------



## Janne

I wonder if a bunch of us WUSsies could go together and do a group order? (If we get friggin' 50% off, I can live with the Aluminium case... )


----------



## Spit161

Janne said:


> I wonder if a bunch of us WUSsies could go together and do a group order? (If we get friggin' 50% off, I can live with the Aluminium case... )


It's possible.
Count me in if it happens!

cheers.


----------



## TimeOnTarget

Too bad Breitling does not make a watch that any self-respecting military pilot would wear anymore. They sold out and lost their true following.

Now back to business. Forget those automatics and get one of these bad boys.


----------



## Spit161

TimeOnTarget said:


> Too bad Breitling does not make a watch that any self-respecting military pilot would wear anymore.


I'd have to agree on that. Most of the pilots I fly ( and have flown ) with in the civilian world wear simple Casio or Tissot watches.
The military pilots that I am good friends with, and have flown with on occasion, wear a mixture of things. Only 2 of them wear Breitlings ( The Aerospace model. )

cheers.


----------



## JAXX10

Now trying to decide between damasko and sinn 857


----------



## Sean779

Janne said:


> I wonder if a bunch of us WUSsies could go together and do a group order? (If we get friggin' 50% off, I can live with the Aluminium case... )


count me in too if we don't have to start a war.


----------



## bydandie

HercDriver said:


> To be honest, I did not speak directly with Bremont - a mate on a military aviation forum I frequent was looking for nine other guys go in with on a group purchase, and he indicated he had corresponded with someone from Bremont and that it was 50% off retail.


Not from the forum, but military right? Did he/she actually get 50% off retail, I'd bet not!


----------



## HercDriver

bydandie said:


> Not from the forum, but military right? Did he/she actually get 50% off retail, I'd bet not!


No, he is on a naval aviation forum I frequent, and he is an active duty USN pilot or NFO (can't remember)-since I am active duty I thought about going in, but didn't. I don't know if he found enough people for a squadron buy-in, so couldn't tell you if he got the 50% off he was offered.


----------



## JAXX10

Anyone here who was active duty Army at any given time? Sorry navy boys. I'm thinking about seeing if we can get atleast a good group of guys for a special watch. Either from sinn or damasko. Give me ideas for a no nonsense watch. Do y'all like the 857 utc over the dive models? Also what model damasko would y'all like
I'll start another thread if we get some people on board here


----------



## Trapped Wind

Buy the Sinn? Bremont too expensive? That's like buying a ugly car because it's got better breaks? There is no comparison between Bremont and Sinn when it comes to looks and they're a wash when it comes to toughness. Dont take my word for it ask all of image obsessed Hollywood. 

To all those who are confused...spend the money on the Bremont. Not a day goes by I dont get a positive comment on it. Oh, and it's tough as nails to boot.


----------



## andy_s

The qualities of one don't preclude the appreciation of the qualities of the other.

Both have at least done what all ETA carrying watchmakers should do and concentrated on adding function by way of engineering and design. For that they should both be applauded.


----------



## bydandie

HercDriver said:


> No, he is on a naval aviation forum I frequent, and he is an active duty USN pilot or NFO (can't remember)-since I am active duty I thought about going in, but didn't. I don't know if he found enough people for a squadron buy-in, so couldn't tell you if he got the 50% off he was offered.


Well if he did indeed get this offer, which I still doubt it to be made on the basis of 'get some blokes together and we'll give you 50% off any model', all they'd be doing is giving it away at near cost which is to be applauded.

Now, before anyone start going on about how this shows how overpriced they are, consider that they'll have to give an AD 30-40% of their RRP which if they then take 10% profit for themselves would mean that they are giving serving military personnel the chance to have a decent watch at near cost which is to be appliauded.


----------



## Spit161

bydandie said:


> Now, before anyone start going on about how this shows how overpriced they are, consider that they'll have to give an AD 30-40% of their RRP which if they then take 10% profit for themselves would mean that they are giving serving military personnel the chance to have a decent watch at near cost which is to be appliauded.


I absolutely agree, bydandie.

cheers.


----------



## Mchart

How does one obtain this discount on Bremonts if AD? If this is true then it knocks the price down to something even us poor enlisted people can pick up.


----------



## bydandie

Mchart said:


> How does one obtain this discount on Bremonts if AD?


You don't, if this discount exists (still to be convinced) then it's on squadron specials which won't be sold through the AD anyway.


----------



## Janne

It is excellent marketing to let a bunch of military people buy the watches for a discount. Marketing that does not cost the company much.

Bremont do it, Sinn do it, Prim do it etc etc.


----------



## Janne

Sean779 said:


> count me in too if we don't have to start a war.


Wars have started for lesser causes than a nice watch......


----------



## Mchart

Janne said:


> It is excellent marketing to let a bunch of military people buy the watches for a discount. Marketing that does not cost the company much.
> 
> Bremont do it, Sinn do it, Prim do it etc etc.


Again, i'd like to know how I can get this discount if it exsists. Only company I know of that does it is Resco, and that is a 10% discount.


----------



## Janne

Do not ask me... I would like to know too...
I was in the Armed Forces (during the Cold War, in Neutral Sweden. We were prepared to fight anybody that crossed our borders) 30 years ago, so hope it counts!


----------



## Sean779

Janne said:


> Do not ask me... I would like to know too...
> I was in the Armed Forces (during the Cold War, in Neutral Sweden. We were prepared to fight anybody that crossed our borders) 30 years ago, so hope it counts!


30 years ago is 1981. I was backpacking in Finland near the border with Sweden, listening to Sibelius through my Walkman 7. I had no idea the danger I was in.


----------



## bydandie

Mchart said:


> Again, i'd like to know how I can get this discount if it exsists. Only company I know of that does it is Resco, and that is a 10% discount.


Quite simple, be a serving member of a air unit, speak to HercDriver to find out more about the alleged discount and approach Bremont. There is no other forces discount.


----------



## Janne

Sean779 said:


> 30 years ago is 1981. I was backpacking in Finland near the border with Sweden, listening to Sibelius through my Walkman 7. I had no idea the danger I was in.


My Squadron area was from 25 Km north of Haparanda following the river north for about 30 kilometers, and approx 50 km deep into Sweden (from the river)

Well, had you gone into one of the restricted areas you would have been in trouble. The Finnish side was OK, my Finnish colleagues were closer to the Soviet border.

Did you see the Kukkola rapids? And, what on Earth did you do there? The mountains between Sweden and Norway are more scenic and fun!


----------



## Sean779

Janne said:


> My Squadron area was from 25 Km north of Haparanda following the river north for about 30 kilometers, and approx 50 km deep into Sweden (from the river)
> 
> Well, had you gone into one of the restricted areas you would have been in trouble. The Finnish side was OK, my Finnish colleagues were closer to the Soviet border.
> 
> Did you see the Kukkola rapids? And, what on Earth did you do there? The mountains between Sweden and Norway are more scenic and fun!


I was fanatical about Sibelius, and thereby, Finland. At that point, I was a student at Trinity College, Dublin. I visited other European countries, but Finland was first on my list, the cold and neutral and mysterious forests of Finland. The Kukkola rapids are amazing--they're the Mississippi of river rapids; they have the constant drama of a river running over land.


----------



## Janne

But you did not see when the ice breaks up in those rapids. I missed the inital fracture by about 1/2 hour, but it was still impressive.


----------



## HercDriver

bydandie said:


> Not from the forum, but military right? *Did he/she actually get 50% off retail, I'd bet not!*





bydandie said:


> Well if he did indeed get this offer, *which I still doubt it* to be made on the basis of 'get some blokes together and we'll give you 50% off any model', all they'd be doing is giving it away at near cost which is to be applauded.
> 
> Now, before anyone start going on about how this shows how overpriced they are, consider that they'll have to give an AD 30-40% of their RRP which if they then take 10% profit for themselves would mean that they are giving serving military personnel the chance to have a decent watch at near cost which is to be appliauded.





bydandie said:


> You don't, *if this discount exists (still to be convinced*) then it's on squadron specials which won't be sold through the AD anyway.





bydandie said:


> Quite simple, be a serving member of a air unit, speak to HercDriver to find out more *about the alleged discount* and approach Bremont. There is no other forces discount.


So, do you think I'm lying, or do you think the Naval Aviator approaching me about the squadron buy-in is lying? Just curious.

I'm actually quite surprised you would have such a tough time believing that squadron buy-ins wouldn't get a great discount (that is what we are talking about...not a military discount, but a unit/squadron discount of active duty military aviators). Omega and Breitling have done it for years (it is how I purchased my Omega X-33, and I'm sure everyone has seen the myriad Breiltings with various squadron seals on them). It is simple marketing (perhaps mixed in with some altruism); if you are a company like Bremont with no _bona fides_ and want to quickly establish them, offer discounts on watches to military pilots and now you are then able to show that you are the real deal. If they offer them at cost they will still get a great return, as they can now proclaim the following on their website:


> This ALT1-Z was especially designed as a limited edition worn only by the elite US Navy Test Pilot School. _Unavailable for general purchase if you have not qualified as a pilot from the_
> _US Naval Test Pilot School._


 or,


> Exclusivity of the first edition of the Bremont MBI is unparalleled in the watch industry: it will _only _be available for purchase to those who have been ejected from a Martin-Baker ejection seat.


















It is a win-win: the aviator has a much more affordable watch with something memorable from his time at a unit, and Bremont has increased their cache as not being a watch for dilettantes and poseurs. Soon you have folks proclaiming:


bydandie said:


> ...* there is a reason why military pilots are flocking to Bremont (Apache squadrons, RAF Typhoon pilots, C17 pilots, U2 pilots, US Navy Test Pilots etc) rather than Breitling*.


and then you _know_ that the marketing has paid off. 

BTW: I e-mailed Bremont to see what the particulars of the squadron buy-in are and if they still offer 50% off; I'll post the info (if allowed by Bremont) when I hear.


----------



## bydandie

HercDriver said:


> So, do you think I'm lying, or do you think the Naval Aviator approaching me about the squadron buy-in is lying? Just curious.
> 
> I'm actually quite surprised you would have such a tough time believing that squadron buy-ins wouldn't get a great discount (that is what we are talking about...not a military discount, but a unit/squadron discount of active duty military aviators). Omega and Breitling have done it for years (it is how I purchased my Omega X-33, and I'm sure everyone has seen the myriad Breiltings with various squadron seals on them). It is simple marketing (perhaps mixed in with some altruism); if you are a company like Bremont with no _bona fides_ and want to quickly establish them, offer discounts on watches to military pilots and now you are then able to show that you are the real deal. If they offer them at cost they will still get a great return, as they can now proclaim the following on their website:
> or,
> 
> View attachment 445700
> 
> 
> View attachment 445699
> 
> It is a win-win: the aviator has a much more affordable watch with something memorable from his time at a unit, and Bremont has increased their cache as not being a watch for dilettantes and poseurs. Soon you have folks proclaiming:
> 
> and then you _know_ that the marketing has paid off.
> 
> BTW: I e-mailed Bremont to see what the particulars of the squadron buy-in are and if they still offer 50% off; I'll post the info (if allowed by Bremont) when I hear.


I don't think that you are lying, let's get this straight. The other bod, do you know him from anywhere other than the forum?

I don't know the discounts that Bremont offer, save for what forum member 'CaptLeslie' has mentioned on various Bremont brand fora whereby a 'substantial' discount is offered on the MB1 (which I'd imagine would be the AD margin) and 'small but welcome' one on the C17 (the latter likely being due to the design work). I'd be surprised if a discount of 50% is available across the board just to approach Bremont and slap a badge on a watch, but as I've said if that is the case then they're giving the watches away at cost which is great.

Edit - BTW I did actually say that my scepticism was on the basis of getting some blokes together to get 50% off any watch. What you're talking about is proving to be different, and I accept what you've said about it being common practice to give watches away at cost to get people wearing them.

I guess the key thing for me is that people don't start off saying that 50% discount is possible on the brand when it's not. That can kill a brand, when in reality it's the same for most brands to have 50% of the RRP being cost and the rest profit for the watch company and AD.


----------



## Janne

Maybe (with Ernies permission) we can slap the WUS logo (in very faint paint) on the Dial, and get 50% off?

Also good marketing, something along this line: " model xx has been selected by the largest watch forum worldwide WatchUSeek, to be the WUS Forum Official Watch"


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> Maybe (with Ernies permission) we can slap the WUS logo (in very faint paint) on the Dial, and get 50% off?
> 
> Also good marketing, something along this line: " model xx has been selected by the largest watch forum worldwide WatchUSeek, to be the WUS Forum Official Watch"


Yes Janne, why don't you try it?  :lol:


----------



## Sean779

HercDriver said:


> So, do you think I'm lying, or do you think the Naval Aviator approaching me about the squadron buy-in is lying? Just curious.
> 
> I'm actually quite surprised you would have such a tough time believing that squadron buy-ins wouldn't get a great discount (that is what we are talking about...not a military discount, but a unit/squadron discount of active duty military aviators). Omega and Breitling have done it for years (it is how I purchased my Omega X-33, and I'm sure everyone has seen the myriad Breiltings with various squadron seals on them). It is simple marketing (perhaps mixed in with some altruism); if you are a company like Bremont with no _bona fides_ and want to quickly establish them, offer discounts on watches to military pilots and now you are then able to show that you are the real deal. If they offer them at cost they will still get a great return, as they can now proclaim the following on their website:
> or,
> 
> View attachment 445700
> 
> 
> View attachment 445699
> 
> It is a win-win: the aviator has a much more affordable watch with something memorable from his time at a unit, and Bremont has increased their cache as not being a watch for dilettantes and poseurs. Soon you have folks proclaiming:
> 
> and then you _know_ that the marketing has paid off.
> 
> BTW: I e-mailed Bremont to see what the particulars of the squadron buy-in are and if they still offer 50% off; I'll post the info (if allowed by Bremont) when I hear.


Your Bremont quotations from their website are well written--as befits a luxury watch company--but in my opinion that simply makes them more pretentious; and might even insult the intelligence of the very market they're going after. I said "might." :-d

Sounds like the same ol G.I. Joe stuff, only this time they stuffed him in a tux.


----------



## bydandie

Sean779 said:


> Your Bremont quotations from their website are well written--as befits a luxury watch company--but in my opinion that simply makes them more pretentious; and might even insult the intelligence of the very market they're going after. I said "might." :-d
> 
> Sounds like the same ol G.I. Joe stuff, only this time they stuffed him in a tux.


Marketing always sounds pretentious, but it sells watches to the non-WIS market which will always sell more than us!


----------



## JAXX10

So still no where closer on a decision lol


----------



## Sean779

JAXX10 said:


> So still no where closer on a decision lol


right right...you asked us a question. guess we strayed a bit...that so rarely happens in threads :-d.

I'd definitely go for the PO 45.5. (or the *Sinn* U2) :-!


----------



## Janne

Yep, we strayed a bit. Just like Tiger.....

I take it you have read the info on each brands factory WW site?

Is the tech important, or the looks?


----------



## JAXX10

Haha no worries on straying. It was a good read. It's always good for people to talk and express opinions. And yep vive read the tech. I just couldn't wrap my head around why a bremont is so expensive compared to a sinn that is one tough watch. It seems like the bremont should be able to be used as a hammer, a golf ball and a hockey puck


----------



## Janne

Sinn have control over the case production, as they are part owners.

Another cost saving is the word of mouth principle, they do not advertise.

Also, the company has been around for 50 years.

I would think the number of produced units is much larger for Sinn.

The Trip-Lock case must be quite a bit more expensive to produce. 
Modifications to the ETA does also cost a bit, plus the COSc certification.

And, of course, you have the fact that the manufacturer decides in which price bracket to put the watch....
The words "Luxury" sells.


----------



## Mike Weinberg

bydandie said:


> The choice between Sinn and Bremont is tough, both are great brands but there is a reason why military pilots are flocking to Bremont (Apache squadrons, RAF Typhoon pilots, C17 pilots, U2 pilots, US Navy Test Pilots etc) rather than Breitling. The finish of the hardened Bremont cases is like brushed steel rather than the flatter finish to the Sinn cases from SUG or the Damasko cases. Bremont truly is a brand that's tested beyond endurance, where Sinn is capable but not tested.
> 
> For me, I've met the English brothers and that adds to the allure of the brand; that said, an 857 UTC has most of the great tech from Sinn for a stunning price.


I can't speak about anyone but the U-2 pilots, but last November I asked the President of the Dragonlady Association and he said that they mostly have the U-2 version of the Breitling B-1 (and wear it on the outside of their pressure suits). At that time, pilot Alberto Cruz was the only guy with the Bremont.

Further, military pilots are unlikely to spend a ton of money on a mechanical watch with almost no functions other than telling time. Most wear Casios and Timexes, and the premium watch is considered to be the Breitling B-1, which has a lot of functions.


----------



## bydandie

Mike Weinberg said:


> I can't speak about anyone but the U-2 pilots, but last November I asked the President of the Dragonlady Association and he said that they mostly have the U-2 version of the Breitling B-1 (and wear it on the outside of their pressure suits). At that time, pilot Alberto Cruz was the only guy with the Bremont.
> 
> Further, military pilots are unlikely to spend a ton of money on a mechanical watch with almost no functions other than telling time. Most wear Casios and Timexes, and the premium watch is considered to be the Breitling B-1, which has a lot of functions.


Interesting then that Alberto had also stated that the pilots wore the Casios etc when wearing pressure suits and wore the U2 at lower altitudes? Even more interesting that Alberto said that they went with Bremont due to the fact that Breitling would only slap a badge on an existing model. Someone's wrong, but who; the current serving person or the association President?

edit - BTW, Lt Col Jeff Olsen also has had pictures taken of his U2 at altitude so please explain that one?


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> Sinn have control over the case production, as they are part owners.
> 
> Another cost saving is the word of mouth principle, they do not advertise.
> 
> Also, the company has been around for 50 years.
> 
> I would think the number of produced units is much larger for Sinn.
> 
> The Trip-Lock case must be quite a bit more expensive to produce.
> Modifications to the ETA does also cost a bit, plus the COSc certification.
> 
> And, of course, you have the fact that the manufacturer decides in which price bracket to put the watch....
> The words "Luxury" sells.


You've hit the nail on the head, Bremont get someone else to harden their cases for them, which along with the more complex case construction costs money. Then you decide how you want to sell the watch and then what price bracket to put it into. The entire range of Bremont watches have been subjected to tests that would break many watches, and that over engineering all costs too. Bottom line, Sinn more than likely could do it as well, I have no doubt about that. (Didn't know about the part ownership of SUG though, so thanks!).


----------



## Mike Weinberg

bydandie said:


> Interesting then that Alberto had also stated that the pilots wore the Casios etc when wearing pressure suits and wore the U2 at lower altitudes? Even more interesting that Alberto said that they went with Bremont due to the fact that Breitling would only slap a badge on an existing model. Someone's wrong, but who; the current serving person or the association President?
> 
> edit - BTW, Lt Col Jeff Olsen also has had pictures taken of his U2 at altitude so please explain that one?


I have no idea what Alberto Cruz said, to whom he said it, or if he said it at all. What is your source, so I can look it up? Normally, pilots (as opposed to astronauts) don't wear watches around pressure suits, so when I saw the Bremont ad, I called the Dragonlady Association to verify, and that's where I got my information.


----------



## bydandie

Mike Weinberg said:


> I have no idea what Alberto Cruz said, to whom he said it, or if he said it at all. What is your source, so I can look it up? Normally, pilots (as opposed to astronauts) don't wear watches around pressure suits, so when I saw the Bremont ad, I called the Dragonlady Association to verify, and that's where I got my information.


No problem, here's the link


----------



## andy_s

Double post oops


----------



## andy_s

Both are good makers, a lot of makers are content to stick a Valjoux/ETA movement into a production line case and mark up the price so it fits to their marketing strategy. At least Sinn and Bremont have actually done something interesting, different and ultimately practical where they can (case, tech, visibility, design, strap/bracelet) to lift their watches above the norm. For this they should be applauded.

Bremont. The two brothers have developed a range of watches with genuine quality and introduced them into the market at a price point that would recoup their outlay on a small scale of production. That's good business. How do you market them - at the expensive end and aligned to their aviation image to drive awareness - there's nothing wrong with this, as it perhaps adds the 95% of watch buyers that aren't particularly au fait with the full range of possibilities. You can't knock them for their marketing blurb, but like all things there are as many that get 'sucked in' as there are that 'rebel' against the portrayed image. 
I try to ignore, for better or worse, all marketing and concentrate on the actual qualities of the watch.

Sinn: Low-key, higher turnover of stock (10k watches pa), no publicity, small AD network, great quality and immense innovation, intelligent design and steady reputation over many years. They don't have to start a marketing wagon, or not a big one at any rate, it's therefore easier to concentrate on the watch without the distraction that marketing can bring.

Put all those things aside and you've got two excellent quality watches, added features designed to increase the robustness and performance envelope of the watch all on legible quite sensible dials. 

I like the orange (in particular) knurled barrel - I'm not so keen on the MB ejector seat handle second hand, but that sort of thing isn't my bag anyway. 
I like all the Sinn tech; it's nth degree stuff though, in so much as you'd manage fine without it in most circumstances. They are priced below what they should be (or were a few years back) and were able to do this due to their different strategy to the likes of Bremont.

So no foul in either camp. OP - I'd suggest read the technical bits more than the blurb bits. Figure out which dial you'd like to look at and how far up your priority tree things like readability and aesthetic go. Eiither way you'll have a good watch and no mistake.


Just on SUG; it was Guinand who first made Sinn cases, then Damasko for a short while then 4 years after Lowther Schmidt (ex-IWC Head of Production) took over he formed SUG in partnership with Fricker (Fricker cases) and Boldt (Head of tech at Glashutte) and SUG made Sinn cases from then on, including using the submarine steel/tegiment technologies.


----------



## Janne

IMVHO, both these watch manufacturers, plus Damasco, are the more interesting ones out there.

The vast majority of manufacturers just do a dial, and whack a standard ETA/Sellita movement in a more or less standard case.

These guys (Sinn, Bremont, Damasko, and a very few more) do a bit of thinking and tech designing. Which costs them money.

Rant:
What I dislike about Bremont, and I promise it is the LAST TIME I am mentioning it on WUS, is the BS and blurp about the deceased father, the old pilot Mr Bremont and using bits of old planes.

They do not need to do that.

End of rant. Forever.


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> What I dislike about Bremont, and I promise it is the LAST TIME I am mentioning it on WUS, is the BS and blurp about the deceased father, the old pilot Mr Bremont and using bits of old planes.
> 
> They do not need to do that.


Janne, the death of their father is the reason they decided that life was too short and too leave the rat race and put themselves open to ridicule by the WIs community whilst making watches. They named the watch brand after the French farmer and they feel that there's something worthwhile about reusing scrap from real aircraft. What's wrong with that? You don't agree with the latter, fair enough, but the two former items are what gave rise to Bremont the ethos and brand, what's really wrong with that?


----------



## LFCRules

The price of the C17 on the Bremont website looks pretty cheap to me, only £750!!

Limited Editions - Watch Collection

Surely that's gotta be at least 50% off!


----------



## valdarrant

LFCRules said:


> The price of the C17 on the Bremont website looks pretty cheap to me, only £750!!
> 
> Limited Editions - Watch Collection
> 
> Surely that's gotta be at least 50% off!


Thats for the DEPOSIT....


----------



## Janne

If you had waited untill tomorrow telling him that, Valdarrant, then I think LFCrules would have ordered a brace.......


----------



## Mike Weinberg

bydandie said:


> No problem, here's the link


That link goes to a site that says "Sorry, no matches."


----------



## Mike Weinberg

TimeOnTarget said:


> Too bad Breitling does not make a watch that any self-respecting military pilot would wear anymore. They sold out and lost their true following.
> 
> Now back to business. Forget those automatics and get one of these bad boys.


How can you, of all people, say such a thing? Here you are with a beautiful Sinn UX, and yet you think Breitling doesn't make a respectable aviator watch? What about the B-1? C'mon, TimeonTarget, you fly all over the world! What gives?


----------



## Timeless: Now WoS

To the OP - Both watches are great but the Bremont (in my opinion) is superior for many reasons that have already been discussed.
The U1 is a great watch for the money but the crystal bothers me too much for me to ever own one, it picks up everything. 
That being said we have one in stock if your interested :-d We also have some Demasko's, Breitlings and Bremonts.
Weigh out your options and choose the watch that you like the best.

PM me if you have any questions.

Dan


----------



## bydandie

Mike Weinberg said:


> That link goes to a site that says "Sorry, no matches."


Try this one


----------



## bydandie

Mike Weinberg said:


> How can you, of all people, say such a thing? Here you are with a beautiful Sinn UX, and yet you think Breitling doesn't make a respectable aviator watch? What about the B-1? C'mon, TimeonTarget, you fly all over the world! What gives?


Probably because most pilots don't have time for all the fancy functions? Most pilots I know don't use a watch to tell the time, and would prefer a bezel and simple to read display of time in a backup.


----------



## Mike Weinberg

bydandie said:


> Try this one


OK, then the guys who bought the Bremont (what percentage this is of the squadron I have no idea) generally wear the watches at low altitudes, while according to the President of the Dragonlady Association (who works at Beale AFB and doesn't post on watch forums), the pilots wear (or can wear) the Breitling B-1 at high altitudes. The Breitling is a useful pilot watch--the Bremont is a (very expensive) time-of-day watch that some U-2 guys (I have no idea how many) got Bremont to personalize.

There was no mention on this forum of Casios at high altitude, although I would wear a Casio before I'd take the chance of destroying a Breitling or a Bremont in a high-speed ejection at high altitude.

I've followed the pressure suit/wristwatch argument for years. It seems as though except for the astronauts, there has been a great reluctance
on the part of pilots to wear their watches in pressure suits. For example, the SR-71 crews almost never did, although the RSOs sometimes velcro-fixed a stopwatch or a personal chronograph to a knee board (I know because I asked them, and one of them flew my Rolex GMT on a flight for me in 1988).

I share the enthusiasm for this, but unless I see actual USAF pictures of someone in a pressure suit with a wristwatch (as opposed to a watch company's publicity shot), I will reserve judgment.


----------



## bydandie

Mike Weinberg said:


> OK, then the guys who bought the Bremont (what percentage this is of the squadron I have no idea) generally wear the watches at low altitudes, while according to the President of the Dragonlady Association (who works at Beale AFB and doesn't post on watch forums), the pilots wear (or can wear) the Breitling B-1 at high altitudes. The Breitling is a useful pilot watch--the Bremont is a (very expensive) time-of-day watch that some U-2 guys (I have no idea how many) got Bremont to personalize.
> 
> There was no mention on this forum of Casios at high altitude, although I would wear a Casio before I'd take the chance of destroying a Breitling or a Bremont in a high-speed ejection at high altitude.
> 
> I've followed the pressure suit/wristwatch argument for years. It seems as though except for the astronauts, there has been a great reluctance
> on the part of pilots to wear their watches in pressure suits. For example, the SR-71 crews almost never did, although the RSOs sometimes velcro-fixed a stopwatch or a personal chronograph to a knee board (I know because I asked them, and one of them flew my Rolex GMT on a flight for me in 1988).
> 
> I share the enthusiasm for this, but unless I see actual USAF pictures of someone in a pressure suit with a wristwatch (as opposed to a watch company's publicity shot), I will reserve judgment.


It wasn't a watch companies shot though, but taken by Alberto Cruz and Jeff Olsen. BTW, do you really believe that the B1 is functional at the -°c at 100000ft (there's a reason why they wear pressure suits)? The battery would drain in no time and the LCD would be damaged.

You have said in another post that you'd hate to think that the U-2 pilots would spend a lot of money on a brand that wasn't proven and a model that was time only. The U-2 watch was designed as a statement, and last I heard Sicura bought the Breitling brand after the stock was sold so let's not go down the heritage route! 

The U-2 watch is not normally worn operationally, but has been to take the pictures; we're both in agreement with that as stated by actual U-2 pilots. Your initial statement was that the only person who wore the U-2 was Cruzer even though there is no way that Bremont would've made a brand new model for a couple of people, you can surely accept that?


----------



## Mike Weinberg

bydandie said:


> It wasn't a watch companies shot though, but taken by Alberto Cruz and Jeff Olsen. BTW, do you really believe that the B1 is functional at the -°c at 100000ft (there's a reason why they wear pressure suits)? The battery would drain in no time and the LCD would be damaged.
> 
> You have said in another post that you'd hate to think that the U-2 pilots would spend a lot of money on a brand that wasn't proven and a model that was time only. The U-2 watch was designed as a statement, and last I heard Sicura bought the Breitling brand after the stock was sold so let's not go down the heritage route!
> 
> The U-2 watch is not normally worn operationally, but has been to take the pictures; we're both in agreement with that as stated by actual U-2 pilots. Your initial statement was that the only person who wore the U-2 was Cruzer even though there is no way that Bremont would've made a brand new model for a couple of people, you can surely accept that?


The U-2 cockpit is pressurized, so any watch can be worn there. Your argument doesn't work in the case of the many astronauts who have worn Aerospaces and B-1s in the space shuttle (I don't see any Bremonts there). All of this was since 1977-1979, when Sicura bought Breitling--hardly yesterday.

I have no interest in watches as statements. As a grownup, I prefer tools. I'm tired of this and I quit.


----------



## bydandie

Mike Weinberg said:


> The U-2 cockpit is pressurized, so any watch can be worn there. Your argument doesn't work in the case of the many astronauts who have worn Aerospaces and B-1s in the space shuttle (I don't see any Bremonts there). All of this was since 1977-1979, when Sicura bought Breitling--hardly yesterday.
> 
> I have no interest in watches as statements. As a grownup, I prefer tools. I'm tired of this and I quit.


The pressure wouldn't be at ground level and the environment in the cockpit would still be rather cold. Not conducive to LCD or quartz. You may not have an interest in watches as statements, but your U-2 pilots do. Whilst they may well wear Breitling, they've chosen Bremont as their squadron watch, in a design of their choosing.


----------



## Mike Weinberg

bydandie said:


> Probably because most pilots don't have time for all the fancy functions? Most pilots I know don't use a watch to tell the time, and would prefer a bezel and simple to read display of time in a backup.


The question was addressed to TimeonTarget.


----------



## bydandie

Mike Weinberg said:


> The question was addressed to TimeonTarget.


Ah Ok, I tend to use PMs for private conversations!


----------



## Janne

I have a few commercial pilot friends back in East Sussex. A couple are watch collectors.
Some wear Breitlings, a few Rolexes, an Omega or two. 
The ones who do not collect, wear watches same as Average Joe.


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> I have a few commercial pilot friends back in East Sussex. A couple are watch collectors.
> Some wear Breitlings, a few Rolexes, an Omega or two.
> The ones who do not collect, wear watches same as Average Joe.


My experience as well, most people just want to tell the time. You rarely see one with a 6B on their watch, and there's a lot of Timex/Casio.

Looking forward to starting my PPL soon though and I'm torn between the '47 and the MB2!


----------



## HercDriver

Another brief threadjack: Asked Bremont about a squadron purchase and rec'd a very warm and courteous reply. I won't post the full reply as I had earlier indicated I would, due to not receiving permission from them to do so. The program is very similar to Breitling's and Omega's programs-you need to be an active duty aviator, there is a minimum number to purchase (around 20, but they appear flexible), you send them a copy of your sqadron crest (or a similar design), and then they work with you on a watch. I won't discuss exact figures of cost, but my earlier post wasn't too far off.

I feel like Janne does in their marketing, but they long ago won me over with their designs...they seem to "get it", where some of the bigger watch companies don't. Also, their designs for the U-2 and Globemaster watches are remarkable in that they haven't simply put a squadron logo on the front of a watch, but have instead designed a _completely_ _new_ _face_ _and_ _hands_. For a very limited run of watches that is absolutely remarkable, and my hats off to them. The NPTS watch looks very similar to a standard Alt 1Z, but the Globemaster edition has only the movement and case in common with the standard Alt-1Z. Amazing.


----------



## LFCRules

Janne said:


> If you had waited untill tomorrow telling him that, Valdarrant, then I think LFCrules would have ordered a brace.......




I'm sure when I've looked at that before it never said deposit on there, ho hum. If I was in the services maybe I would order them ;-)


----------



## Mchart

HercDriver said:


> Another brief threadjack: Asked Bremont about a squadron purchase and rec'd a very warm and courteous reply. I won't post the full reply as I had earlier indicated I would, due to not receiving permission from them to do so. The program is very similar to Breitling's and Omega's programs-you need to be an active duty aviator, there is a minimum number to purchase (around 20, but they appear flexible), you send them a copy of your sqadron crest (or a similar design), and then they work with you on a watch. I won't discuss exact figures of cost, but my earlier post wasn't too far off.
> 
> I feel like Janne does in their marketing, but they long ago won me over with their designs...they seem to "get it", where some of the bigger watch companies don't. Also, their designs for the U-2 and Globemaster watches are remarkable in that they haven't simply put a squadron logo on the front of a watch, but have instead designed a _completely_ _new_ _face_ _and_ _hands_. For a very limited run of watches that is absolutely remarkable, and my hats off to them. The NPTS watch looks very similar to a standard Alt 1Z, but the Globemaster edition has only the movement and case in common with the standard Alt-1Z. Amazing.


Good to know. Not exactly happy that in this day in age only pilots receive such a deal though. That enlisted guy refueling the aircraft, or supporting the communications is working just as hard, and some of us would like a nice watch as well. I guess we aren't good advertisement.


----------



## bydandie

Mchart said:


> Good to know. Not exactly happy that in this day in age only pilots receive such a deal though. That enlisted guy refueling the aircraft, or supporting the communications is working just as hard, and some of us would like a nice watch as well. I guess we aren't good advertisement.


If you get a squadron watch, why would the groundcrew not be able to be part of it? Surely that's the squadron rules?

@HercDriver, thanks for getting the info and apologies for any offence caused!


----------



## HercDriver

Mchart said:


> Good to know. Not exactly happy that in this day in age only pilots receive such a deal though. That enlisted guy refueling the aircraft, or supporting the communications is working just as hard, and some of us would like a nice watch as well. I guess we aren't good advertisement.


Honestly, I don't know if it shakes out as only pilots (sometimes I use aviator to mean pilot and sometimes I just mean aircrew). That might be an issue to be discussed directly with Bremont - I don't want to speak for them, and the e-mail I rec'd wasn't exactly clear on it.



bydandie said:


> If you get a squadron watch, why would the groundcrew not be able to be part of it? Surely that's the squadron rules?
> 
> @HercDriver, thanks for getting the info and apologies for any offence caused!


No problem - I'm a "show me" kinda guy, too.


----------



## Janne

A bit OT, but when I was in the Army, in my unit, only us field officers and the soldiers (combat trained troops) got the opportunity to buy and wear some "special" stuff like knives with the regiment logo, clothes, etc.
We officers took that decision to distinquish the boys that would die in a possible conflict to the other staff and supporting soldiers.

Maybe it is not "PC" today to do so?


----------



## valdarrant

Interesting...How did you go about distinquishing? Was it just the light/airborne infantry? Did it include the tankers...they are on the front lines but its pretty hard to stop a tank unless you are in one...then there are the Infantry fighting vehicles... the infantry in there are much safer than the individuals roping out of helicopters...and then there is the issue of the Cavalry units who's job it is to conduct recon by fire..I mean they are supposed to be shot at...so did or do they get better stuff? I am not sure PC or not PC assuming that means politically correct and not personal computing.

As I understand it now an Apache can sit miles behind the lines and fire a missle that is then laser guided by an operator on the ground. The Apache doesnt get that close in some cases. The first Gulf War showed that Apache's did not really work in "The Close Fight" and that is why for example the Kiowa was rolled out in the mid to late 90s. If I was going going in and I needed air support my choice for CAS would be an A-10 now those are the guys that are CRAZY. 

I guess I am rambling at this point, but in my feeble small mind you are or have been or tried to be a soldier or not...and that ultimately what qualifies someone as special. On a side note what about my friend the ER doctor that at the last minute was deployed with the 1st Ranger Bat, jumped into Panama and got some mustard on his jump wings...I mean he is just a support person after all...a doctor for heaven's sake so does he get something or?

The reality is that recognition of military service and action is via badges, medals and awards not by watches that have to be paid for out of pocket.....

Now if that is going to change I have a few things that I would like to redeem for a Bremont special edition of my choice... I am thinking an EP-120...


----------



## Mchart

valdarrant said:


> Interesting...How did you go about distinquishing? Was it just the light/airborne infantry? Did it include the tankers...they are on the front lines but its pretty hard to stop a tank unless you are in one...then there are the Infantry fighting vehicles... the infantry in there are much safer than the individuals roping out of helicopters...and then there is the issue of the Cavalry units who's job it is to conduct recon by fire..I mean they are supposed to be shot at...so did or do they get better stuff? I am not sure PC or not PC assuming that means politically correct and not personal computing.
> 
> As I understand it now an Apache can sit miles behind the lines and fire a missle that is then laser guided by an operator on the ground. The Apache doesnt get that close in some cases. The first Gulf War showed that Apache's did not really work in "The Close Fight" and that is why for example the Kiowa was rolled out in the mid to late 90s. If I was going going in and I needed air support my choice for CAS would be an A-10 now those are the guys that are CRAZY.
> 
> I guess I am rambling at this point, but in my feeble small mind you are or have been or tried to be a soldier or not...and that ultimately what qualifies someone as special. On a side note what about my friend the ER doctor that at the last minute was deployed with the 1st Ranger Bat, jumped into Panama and got some mustard on his jump wings...I mean he is just a support person after all...a doctor for heaven's sake so does he get something or?
> 
> The reality is that recognition of military service and action is via badges, medals and awards not by watches that have to be paid for out of pocket.....
> 
> Now if that is going to change I have a few things that I would like to redeem for a Bremont special edition of my choice... I am thinking an EP-120...


Hah, yeah. My combat action medal isn't worth any points towards my promotion. Can I trade it in for a $4000 watch?


----------



## mattjmcd

My hat is off to the OP. Deciding from among these options is going to be tough. IMO, I could see having a collection consisting of maybe a gent's piece or 2, a diver with a swank nameplate ( Rolex, IWC, Blancpain, fill in the blank_________ ) and then nothing but a messload of Bremont and Sinn to round out the collection. Need a hard-as-nails diver? Check. A neoclassic modern flieger? Check. A regulator? Check. Between these 2 brands, you've got most bases covered. 

If it were me, I'd get an MBII and call it a day. Most of the tech bits are at least as high-flying as those of the Sinn, and the watch enjoys even better fit and finish. That's saying something, because Sinn is no slouch in that regard, either. 

I own an MBII and it is one of 2 watches that I wear all the time. My watch still shows absolutely zero sign of daily use aside from the crease in the leather strap. I've put it through the wringer on multiple occasions too, as described over at ATG. 


@TimeOnTarget: my dad lives in Clovis. Judging by the pic I ASSume you are in -60's? Based on the location, I was gonna guess that you might be with 194thFS at FAT/FYI.


----------



## TimeOnTarget

mattjmcd said:


> @TimeOnTarget: my dad lives in Clovis. Judging by the pic I ASSume you are in -60's? Based on the location, I was gonna guess that you might be with 194thFS at FAT/FYI.


Good eye!
I was in 60's for many moons, but have been flying airplanes for the last 7 years in the Army. I am actually headed to Albuquerque tomorrow to re-qual in HH-60Gs (PAVE HAWKS)with the Air Force. 129th Rescue Squadron (ANG), San Jose, CA. I hope I remember how to fly a helicopter......


----------



## Janne

I read that some posters compare the "fit and finish".

Fit = how the individual parts (case/caseback/crystal...etc) fit together

Finish = treatment of surface.

Am I wrong in my thinking?


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> I read that some posters compare the "fit and finish".
> 
> Fit = how the individual parts (case/caseback/crystal...etc) fit together
> 
> Finish = treatment of surface.
> 
> Am I wrong in my thinking?


Personally, unless you see things falling apart or rattling then it's all in the mind normally. The tegimented case doesn't have the normal watch feel as the Bremont does but that's about it. I'd say that the Sinn Arktis I had was as good as a Bremont for 'fit and finish' and amazingly good value too!


----------



## HercDriver

TimeOnTarget said:


> Good eye!
> I was in 60's for many moons, but have been flying airplanes for the last 7 years in the Army. I am actually headed to Albuquerque tomorrow to re-qual in HH-60Gs (PAVE HAWKS)with the Air Force. 129th Rescue Squadron (ANG), San Jose, CA. I hope I remember how to fly a helicopter......


Hey, Michael - Congrats on the Guard job! I haven't been to San Jose, but it looks like a great place to live.

As for remembering how to fly a helo...bet it won't be the flying that will be hard, but the lower back pain.  Good luck.
Drew


----------



## Janne

bydandie said:


> Personally, unless you see things falling apart or rattling then it's all in the mind normally. The tegimented case doesn't have the normal watch feel as the Bremont does but that's about it. I'd say that the Sinn Arktis I had was as good as a Bremont for 'fit and finish' and amazingly good value too!


You see, my point is that all watches with a certain WR must have a good fit. As the Sinn has a higher WR, then the design and fit of the case must be better.
Finish? Having checked al mu watches with a magnifying glass many times, I am unable to see any finish problems with any of my watches costing more than the Tissot T-touch. Any except one, the PAM, where the case makes a strange undulation around the lugs.

I would say the only visual quality difference between the Bremonts and the Sinns will be on the Dial.
Sharper and more finely detailed print on the Bremonts.


----------



## TimeOnTarget

So true!!!!

Well, I am not quitting my day job either. I am going to retire as a traditional guard guy in a few years, and then it will just be long haul for me.....

Atlas is getting 767's now and we just completed our 1st AMC passenger flight with a 747....


----------



## mattjmcd

Janne said:


> I read that some posters compare the "fit and finish".
> 
> Fit = how the individual parts (case/caseback/crystal...etc) fit together
> 
> Finish = treatment of surface.
> 
> Am I wrong in my thinking?


I think that this is, strictly speaking, correct. I think that as a more general expression, though, "fit and finish" includes something else that is harder to define. Moreover, I would suggest that the term "finish" especially is more open to interpretation, since it refers not only to an object's outer surface, but also to final detailing and added touches etc.

WARNING: _barely applicable automobile analogy follows_!

A Toyota Avalon is an excellent car, as is its Lexus sibling the GS. Both are highly regarded for excelling wrt fit and finish. Using your definition, and assuming that price could be magically negated from the equation, one might argue that the Toyota is just as good if not better than the Lexus. And perhaps it is. Yet I would bet that most car-naive people would, if asked, say that the Lexus is somehow better than the Toyota. It's very hard to objectively define, but Lexus does a very good job with minor details and overall design aesthetics integration, regardless of one's personal taste.

I think that both watch brands are great. In fact, were Bremont out of the picture, I could easily see owning 2 or 3 Sinn watches and feeling perfectly satisfied. But having handled several examples from both outfits, I'd have to give the nod to the Bremont MBII vs a comparable 3-hand flieger from Sinn. By the way, somebody ( or more than one ) already suggested that a more honest comparo would be between an 856/857 ( or even a 657 since that's a 3-hander with rotating bezel ) and the Bremont MBII. Although if one were to look at the 657 instead, it'd be hard to justify the Bremont because of the very significant price differential.

Very long story short- I think there is more to fit and finish than parts tolerances and surface treatment.


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> You see, my point is that all watches with a certain WR must have a good fit. As the Sinn has a higher WR, then the design and fit of the case must be better.


I know where you're coming from, but pure numbers don't tell the whole story. The Bremont range is rated at 100m (except for the SM500, which has been tested to beyond 1000m) and that means just that, you can dive down to 100m rather than just swim in it.

Sinn won't warrant diving in the 857, so it doesn't follow that the case design and fit must be better (and better is subjective anyway).


----------



## Janne

No, but the U1 is tested and certified down to 125 Bar (approx 1250meters). It is a certified Divers watch, Din 8306
The 857 is not a Diver watch. It is not classified by Sinn as a Diver, but an Instrument watch. 
A % of the production is tested to the Din 8310

The Din 8306 is far more extreme test.

The OP want us to compare between a Diver (Sinn U1 and two Instrument watches (Bremonts)
One apple and two pears.

My point is, the FIT is excellent for most watches. EXTERNAL finish - ditto.

The Bremont wins hands down on the INTERNAL finish. The Top grade ETA Sinn uses is no beauty, compared to the Bremont modded ETA.

Now, nobody has commented on the fact that Bremont, a supposed Luxury manufacturer, uses a printed dial. 
This in a watch in this price range is not so good. It is a very well executed printed dial, but still.

Personally, in a watch costing from 2500 UKP I expect applied markers.


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> Now, nobody has commented on the fact that Bremont, a supposed Luxury manufacturer, uses a printed dial.
> This in a watch in this price range is not so good. It is a very well executed printed dial, but still.
> 
> Personally, in a watch costing from 2500 UKP I expect applied markers.


It has it in the Solo, ALt1-C, SM500 etc, just not on the MB series. I'd wager that applied markers on a dial that's subjected to vibration like in the MB tests wouldn't last that long!


----------



## Sean779

Janne said:


> Now, nobody has commented on the fact that Bremont, a supposed Luxury manufacturer, uses a printed dial.
> This in a watch in this price range is not so good. It is a very well executed printed dial, but still.


you're very good at innuendo, Janne ("supposed Luxury manufacturer"). I really doubt that Bremont using a printed dial was a cost-saving measure.


----------



## Janne

Sean779 said:


> you're very good at innuendo, Janne ("supposed Luxury manufacturer"). I really doubt that Bremont using a printed dial was a cost-saving measure.


No, no innuendo. For most WIS, a Luxury Manufacturer is on a level of PP, ALS, JLC, Breguet, Grand Seiko (see thread in Public Forum), aqns a few others.

Bremont has some nice tech, but Luxury? No way.

Ask the boys in High End Forum what they think.

ALT series, BC series, U-2 series, MB have printed dials. Only the Supermarine has applied markers, as far as I can see on the Bremont website.


----------



## mattjmcd

bydandie said:


> It has it in the Solo, ALt1-C, SM500 etc, just not on the MB series. I'd wager that applied markers on a dial that's subjected to vibration like in the MB tests wouldn't last that long!


winner winner, lobster dinner!

form follows function in the design of any serious tool.


----------



## mattjmcd

Janne said:


> No, no innuendo. For most WIS, a Luxury Manufacturer is on a level of PP, ALS, JLC, Breguet, Grand Seiko (see thread in Public Forum), aqns a few others.
> 
> Bremont has some nice tech, but Luxury? No way.
> 
> Ask the boys in High End Forum what they think.
> 
> ALT series, BC series, U-2 series, MB have printed dials. Only the Supermarine has applied markers, as far as I can see on the Bremont website.


As you will likely recall from the last time we discussed this exact topic some months back*, the term "luxury" as it applies to consumer goods in general is commonly associated with price point as much as- and in fact, more than- anything else. As a practical matter, I'd bet that any time piece with an MSRP north of $1k is going to have the term "luxury" attached to it. The first page of hits on a Yahoo search with the search terms "luxury watch" yielded references to Cartier, Michelle, Dior, Movado, Rolex, TAG, etc etc.

A marketer knows that a 5-series is a luxury automobile, even if it cannot directly compete with a Bugatti. Yet they are still broadly classified as luxury items.

* applied to the same watches, too. coincidence..?


----------



## mattjmcd

TimeOnTarget said:


> Good eye!
> I was in 60's for many moons, but have been flying airplanes for the last 7 years in the Army. I am actually headed to Albuquerque tomorrow to re-qual in HH-60Gs (PAVE HAWKS)with the Air Force. 129th Rescue Squadron (ANG), San Jose, CA. I hope I remember how to fly a helicopter......


So, are you ANG? I have a friend of a friend type in the pipeline for one of those floppy red hats. If he makes it ( almost done, last I heard ) he's gonna be at Moffett.

Good luck and don't prang my ( I *am* a taxpayer, after all! lol) helo!


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> No, no innuendo. For most WIS, a Luxury Manufacturer is on a level of PP, ALS, JLC, Breguet, Grand Seiko (see thread in Public Forum), aqns a few others.
> 
> Bremont has some nice tech, but Luxury? No way.
> 
> Ask the boys in High End Forum what they think.
> 
> ALT series, BC series, U-2 series, MB have printed dials. Only the Supermarine has applied markers, as far as I can see on the Bremont website.


Difference between the website and having one then, the Alt1-C as applied numerals and detail to the recorders. The Alt1-P has detail to the recorders and lume numerals. The Solo has applied markers, haven't really looked at the others in the ranges, but the BC series have detail on the dials as well. Bremont are tool watches, and all are tested as such, and their tech sets them apart, how many of the high end watches would you sit in the bath with, never mind wear them anywhere they may get damaged?


----------



## bydandie

mattjmcd said:


> As you will likely recall from the last time we discussed this exact topic some months back*, the term "luxury" as it applies to consumer goods in general is commonly associated with price point as much as- and in fact, more than- anything else. As a practical matter, I'd bet that any time piece with an MSRP north of $1k is going to have the term "luxury" attached to it. The first page of hits on a Yahoo search with the search terms "luxury watch" yielded references to Cartier, Michelle, Dior, Movado, Rolex, TAG, etc etc.
> 
> A marketer knows that a 5-series is a luxury automobile, even if it cannot directly compete with a Bugatti. Yet they are still broadly classified as luxury items.
> 
> * applied to the same watches, too. coincidence..?


Great points, oh and BTW Janne technically Bremont are also a manufacture with the new ships clock (ok maybe stretching a point, you'd need a decent wrist size for that!). :lol:


----------



## vipereaper30

FWIW, as an active duty military pilot who has organized several Breitling LE orders and owned over ten Breitlings, I'm down to two and am doing the next LE with Bremont. Night & day difference.


----------



## Janne

mattjmcd said:


> As you will likely recall from the last time we discussed this exact topic some months back*, the term "luxury" as it applies to consumer goods in general is commonly associated with price point as much as- and in fact, more than- anything else. As a practical matter, I'd bet that any time piece with an MSRP north of $1k is going to have the term "luxury" attached to it. The first page of hits on a Yahoo search with the search terms "luxury watch" yielded references to Cartier, Michelle, Dior, Movado, Rolex, TAG, etc etc.
> 
> A marketer knows that a 5-series is a luxury automobile, even if it cannot directly compete with a Bugatti. Yet they are still broadly classified as luxury items.
> 
> * applied to the same watches, too. coincidence..?


Tht is because marketing and salkes people like the word luxury at it makes the buyer feel good, fell like one of a few, feel richer.
I certainly see Cartier, Rolex and Dior as luxury. Maybe not TAG so much.
Oh yes, I see a BMW as `a luxury manufacturer. But not a VW (except the Phaeton)

Uep, the Bremont clock is very nice. Very!


----------



## Janne

bydandie said:


> Difference between the website and having one then, the Alt1-C as applied numerals and detail to the recorders. The Alt1-P has detail to the recorders and lume numerals. The Solo has applied markers, haven't really looked at the others in the ranges, but the BC series have detail on the dials as well. Bremont are tool watches, and all are tested as such, and their tech sets them apart, how many of the high end watches would you sit in the bath with, never mind wear them anywhere they may get damaged?


Yes, I agree (and have said it already) that the print is exeptionally well executed.
But, a print is still a print.
Look on other watches, in a similar pricerange. Applied markers.
It is mainly the small boutique makers that use printing, as this is cheaper, easier to do in small runs, and can easier be changed.

Personally, I shower (do not have a bath) with all my modern watches, except the HMT's, and some of the vintages. I clean them at the same time. Soap and toothbrush.
The only watches I have not taken in to the sea is the Breitling, as one of the tubes has a crack, and the Reversos, as I do not want to get sand and salt into the reversing mechanism.

I am not crazy, I want them to last, just like anybody here on WUS, probably more so, as I do not flip, but watches were made to take some `water. Only WIS are paranoid of getting a watch wet!

Printing and vibration?

On the contrary, I and I am sure the majority of collectors of Vintage watches, we see that the printed details and printed lume is what flakes off or loosens. The applied numerals are solidly fixed with small "prongs" and glue of some sort.


----------



## Janne

What disturbs me is all the hype that surrounds some watchmakes. I am trained to look into things scientifically, without feelings, to judge for what things are.

Bremont is a good, innovative watch. Time will tell if the technical design is good (thinking case design and materials). 
But a luxury watch with supertech? No.


----------



## bydandie

Janne said:


> Yes, I agree (and have said it already) that the print is exeptionally well executed.
> But, a print is still a print.
> Look on other watches, in a similar pricerange. Applied markers.
> It is mainly the small boutique makers that use printing, as this is cheaper, easier to do in small runs, and can easier be changed.
> 
> Personally, I shower (do not have a bath) with all my modern watches, except the HMT's, and some of the vintages. I clean them at the same time. Soap and toothbrush.
> The only watches I have not taken in to the sea is the Breitling, as one of the tubes has a crack, and the Reversos, as I do not want to get sand and salt into the reversing mechanism.
> 
> I am not crazy, I want them to last, just like anybody here on WUS, probably more so, as I do not flip, but watches were made to take some `water. Only WIS are paranoid of getting a watch wet!
> 
> Printing and vibration?
> 
> On the contrary, I and I am sure the majority of collectors of Vintage watches, we see that the printed details and printed lume is what flakes off or loosens. The applied numerals are solidly fixed with small "prongs" and glue of some sort.


Janne, read what I've written. The Alt1-C has applied numbers, the Solo has applied markers, the BC range has applied details as well (can't attest to the markers as I've not seen them). A luxury watch means just that, something akin to a Breguet or IWC Portuguese, I wouldn't call an Ingieneur a luxury watch anymore than I'd call a DeepSea a luxury watch; they're expensive tool watches.

Bremont have shown that they are willing to use applied details but when it suits their design rather than 'if it doesn't have applied details then it's not quality'.

Also, the MBII has been subjected to a simulated 25 year vibration test that separated the soles from miltary boots, I guess that if the printed dial would deteriorate then it'd show! 

So to recap, given the case finishes of the Bremont series, I'd say that they are designed to be high quality tool watches rather than luxury dress watches. YMMV!


----------



## TimeOnTarget

Mike Weinberg said:


> How can you, of all people, say such a thing? Here you are with a beautiful Sinn UX, and yet you think Breitling doesn't make a respectable aviator watch? What about the B-1? C'mon, TimeonTarget, you fly all over the world! What gives?


They don't make the B1 anymore.... And they have molested the Aerospace to such a degree that somebody should call the authorities....

I wore this one in Iraq.


----------



## Mike Weinberg

TimeOnTarget said:


> They don't make the B1 anymore.... And they have molested the Aerospace to such a degree that somebody should call the authorities....
> 
> I wore this one in Iraq.


I have the B-1 in blue myself. I think that they goofed with the Airwolf (who uses a compass bezel?), and they just unloaded the bezel entirely with the redone Chronospace. But there is nothing remotely aviation-related about the Bremont.

If I recall correctly, you also have a Yes Watch (one of the best pilot watches there is) along with the Sinn UX in your photo. The Sinn UX belongs in the same league as the Omega Marine Chronometer of the 1970s. It's a masterpiece of accuracy. Just the thing for a serious pilot. And, surprise of surprises, none of these watches is automatic, along with the Omega X-33, Timex Datalink, and Casios not just flown in space but also used there.

I think the Swiss watch industry is hyping luxury automatics because they are still getting killed by quartz watches and because they can find enough status-conscious dummies to spend $5,000 on them.


----------



## HercDriver

I agree that Breitling has moved from it's "tool watch" roots. There are a few I would still like, but not in the cockpit.

Case in point: I really like the Skyracer - it has a bi-compax layout, a countdown bezel, the chronograph's elapsed minutes hand is centrally located like a Lemania 5100, and the 9 o'clock subdial has both an hour and minute totalizer that is really intuitive to read. If it had a GMT hand it would be nearly perfect, IMO. It even has a slide rule that says "I'm a pilot" and that you may use one day figuring your per diem out. But...

It should have plain matte black finish on the face, not a sunburst pattern, and the indices are too wide and blingy . For some reason all of the new watches have crazy lines and patterns in the background, as I think they are trying to appeal to folks other than just pilots. Whenever I pick up one at the local AD, I always notice how the sunburst and indices reflect the light, which is neat on some watches, but not on a working pilot's watch. *shrugs*


----------



## Janne

It seems that some posters have got tired of the discussion, and instead of moving on, are changing the subject. Very funny.....

I guess some parents did not think manners were important to teach to the offspring.....


----------



## bydandie

HercDriver said:


> I agree that Breitling has moved from it's "tool watch" roots. There are a few I would still like, but not in the cockpit.
> 
> Case in point: I really like the Skyracer - it has a bi-compax layout, a countdown bezel, the chronograph's elapsed minutes hand is centrally located like a Lemania 5100, and the 9 o'clock subdial has both an hour and minute totalizer that is really intuitive to read. If it had a GMT hand it would be nearly perfect, IMO. It even has a slide rule that says "I'm a pilot" and that you may use one day figuring your per diem out. But...
> 
> It should have plain matte black finish on the face, not a sunburst pattern, and the indices are too wide and blingy . For some reason all of the new watches have crazy lines and patterns in the background, as I think they are trying to appeal to folks other than just pilots. Whenever I pick up one at the local AD, I always notice how the sunburst and indices reflect the light, which is neat on some watches, but not on a working pilot's watch. *shrugs*
> 
> View attachment 447813


So as a real pilot, why would you use an auto watch?

I ask, as the pilots I know like autos because they are mechanical, but will have a time only watch at best. To them accuracy isn't that important as the time sources they rely on are in the cockpit rather than on their arm. When I start my ppl next week, I want a watch that I can read easily and has a bezel (which I've been told is the best type), the 6B is of no real use and most chronos are too small to use effectively. I've been told to get a large stopwatch if I want to time events as well.

@mike you own a Rolex and appear to think that Breitling are best, what leads you to believe that beyond the status of the brands you speak of?


----------



## Mike Weinberg

bydandie said:


> So as a real pilot, why would you use an auto watch?
> 
> I ask, as the pilots I know like autos because they are mechanical, but will have a time only watch at best. To them accuracy isn't that important as the time sources they rely on are in the cockpit rather than on their arm. When I start my ppl next week, I want a watch that I can read easily and has a bezel (which I've been told is the best type), the 6B is of no real use and most chronos are too small to use effectively. I've been told to get a large stopwatch if I want to time events as well.
> 
> @mike you own a Rolex and appear to think that Breitling are best, what leads you to believe that beyond the status of the brands you speak of?


The Rolex GMT was used by many pilots/test pilots and astronauts because it was the pilot watch of its time. It therefore has history aside from status.

Breitling has history because of its use by many present-day pilots/test pilots and astronauts. The B-1 and its latest incarnations have very high accuracy and many useful functions.

For value (other than resale) and present-day use by pilots, Casio has everyone beat hands-down.


----------



## HercDriver

bydandie said:


> So as a real pilot, why would you use an auto watch?


Simply because I like them. 
I usually wear my X-33 since it has the main thing I require - UTC. Since TAFs' METARS (weather forecasting & reporting info) and many parts of my work's flight schedule, maintenance data, and SAR/law enforcement tracking use UTC, it is important to have it readily available. Also, it has a loud alarm that I can use in a hotel room on the road, or even in the plane.



Mike Weinberg said:


> The Rolex GMT was used by many pilots/test pilots and astronauts because it was the pilot watch of its time. It therefore has history aside from status.
> 
> Breitling has history because of its use by many present-day pilots/test pilots and astronauts. The B-1 and its latest incarnations have very high accuracy and many useful functions.
> 
> For value (other than resale) and present-day use by pilots, Casio has everyone beat hands-down.


Many of the first astronauts wore Breitlings (like Scott Carpenter's Cosmonaute - the first chrono in space) and Viet Nam era pilots wore them, as well.

And are you talking value about pilot's watches??! You can't put a price on wearing an expensive timepiece in a bar, whilst sipping a cocktail and chatting up a pretty woman.

"Oh, this? Yeah, I bought it in (insert exotic locale) while flying back from (insert another exotic locale here) a few years back. A few days before the plane I was flying had some engine trouble and it got a bit, umm, (pause for effect), _hairy _trying to get it back on the ground with (two engines shut down/smoke in the cockpit/a wing on fire), especially with (thunderstorms all around/a typhoon chasing me/no radios working). I was so happy when I stepped out of that cockpit I decided I'd buy myself a little something to remember how great it was to be alive. Since then, it's been my constant companion - hell, it has so many hours in the cockpit it could fly for United. I only take it off for one reason. What's the reason? Well, maybe you'll find out a little bit later (flash smile)."*

*Note: I am a happily married guy who does not chat up pretty girls in bars, unless one of my crewmen need help. Then I revert to wingman duties.


----------



## HercDriver

Double post.


----------



## JAXX10

Looks like this turned into a bremont luxury debate


----------



## Janne

Mixed with comparing different B-lings!

I guess I have to look closer on the Bremont dials. Look printed to me, most of them.
Maybe we have a different meaning of what printed is?
I have looked on several pictures, and the Alt dial id def. printed.
They simulated the 25 yers of vibration, switting on the pilots wrist, but the paint/lume deteorites, chips and cracks when they age. You can not simulate aging easily.


----------



## TimeOnTarget

Alright, I feel the need to make a disclaimer. 

Drew, aka HercDriver, and I are "real pilots". But the flying we do varies as our missions vary too. I have been on this forum since before the crash of the original site. The guys who have been around a while know that I have worn a bunch of different watches of all types. Autos, quartz, super quartz, atomic quartz, solar, kinetic, vintage, new, expensive, cheap as hell, on and on and on..... I even wear two watches on the same damned arm sometimes because I am just that way!

Wear what ever you want to wear. Spend however much you want to spend. But know that I will always give you my opinion based on how the watches I test work in the real world. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Peace


----------



## Spit161

bydandie said:


> The pressure wouldn't be at ground level and the environment in the cockpit would still be rather cold. Not conducive to LCD or quartz. You may not have an interest in watches as statements, but your U-2 pilots do. Whilst they may well wear Breitling, they've chosen Bremont as their squadron watch, in a design of their choosing.


Absolutely.
The cockpit is only pressurized to the pressure at 29500ft on the later model U2's. However, they still wear the suits just in case of cockpit de-pressurization, in which case the suit would inflate to maintain a pressure altitude of 35000 feet.

cheers.


----------



## Spit161

bydandie said:


> So as a real pilot, why would you use an auto watch?


Yes. I often do.



bydandie said:


> When I start my ppl next week, I want a watch that I can read easily and has a bezel (which I've been told is the best type), the 6B is of no real use and most chronos are too small to use effectively. I've been told to get a large stopwatch if I want to time events as well.


You won't need a stop watch for quite a while yet. Well, definitely until after you have done circuits, because the first few hours are spent flying straight and level, turning, stalling, slow flight etc...

Oh... good luck in the Air Law exam!;-):roll:

cheers.


----------



## bydandie

Spit161 said:


> Yes. I often do.
> 
> You won't need a stop watch for quite a while yet. Well, definitely until after you have done circuits, because the first few hours are spent flying straight and level, turning, stalling, slow flight etc...
> 
> Oh... good luck in the Air Law exam!;-):roll:
> 
> cheers.


Cheers, I'm try to get my head around human factors at present - hence the reason I know that the pressure of the U2 cockpit won't be what non-pilots think it is!


----------



## Hammondo

I have never met anyone in the Military that has a Bremont watch. I realize they are trying hard to enter this market, but Breitling has an effective market in this area, especially for aircrews. The 25% reduction sometimes more is solely dependent on how many watches a Sqn will purchase - usually it is 25 minimum, but can be more and yes this can lead to significant savings. I have lost count of the number of pilots and navigators wearing a Sqn marked Breitling.


----------



## bydandie

Hammondo said:


> I have never met anyone in the Military that has a Bremont watch. I realize they are trying hard to enter this market, but Breitling has an effective market in this area, especially for aircrews. The 25% reduction sometimes more is solely dependent on how many watches a Sqn will purchase - usually it is 25 minimum, but can be more and yes this can lead to significant savings. I have lost count of the number of pilots and navigators wearing a Sqn marked Breitling.


What does that mean with all respect? Notwithstanding the fact that you've joined into the O/T part of this thread, does your lack of seeing a military person wearing a Bremont mean that no-one does or just that you're less likely to see a Bremont full stop?

Pilots aren't WIS's in general, and will therefore buy something perceived to be good. No-one would suggest that Bremont is the most popular brand, the comment appears strange to me.

Interestingly, a pilot friend of mine knew of the Bremont brand as the 'new pilot watch brand' and he's not a WIS at all and is very much a non-professional pilot.


----------



## Janne

Yes, I wonder if the OP is any closer to deciding?


----------



## JAXX10

Haha I'm just letting everyone run with it. I gave up a while ago


----------



## tlinn

Sorry I am late to this thread. Having owned a U1 SDR (sold) and currently with a MB 1.5 in the fold I would go with the Bremont in a heartbeat. The technology being put into both is fantastic but the MB is in a different league in my opinion.

T


----------

