# Steinhart Vintage GMT hand? Is it OFF???



## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

How do I know if the GMT is working properly? This is my first GMT watch and if I am looking at it properly, when I align the hour hand at 12 the GMT hand does not align with the hour but if I take the hour hand and mark it at 30mins the GMT hand then aligns with the hour. So for example if I set the time at 20:00hrs the GMT doesn't align with 20 it's off by 1-2mins if that. If I go 20:30hrs the GMT aligns perfectly with 20hr. Not sure if this makes sence. Can someone help me. I am hoping that there is nothing wrong with the alignment. Thank you.:-!


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## nuovorecord (Nov 27, 2007)

Adjust the hands to midnight. All three of them should point exactly to the twelve marker. If they don't, then it's up to you to decide if you can live with the flaw.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## jjenk123 (Nov 24, 2009)

That's how my Ocean GMT (which I bought in Dec) came. The GMT hand is about 15 minutes out of sync. Seems to be recurring issue with Steinhart GMT's since I've seen a few of these posts recently.


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## Jbem (Dec 2, 2010)

nuovorecord said:


> Adjust the hands to midnight. All three of them should point exactly to the twelve marker. If they don't, then it's up to you to decide if you can live with the flaw.
> 
> Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


Or take it to someone who can set the hand properly


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

I dont know if the GMT hand is independent or not. If it is, you can adjust the GMT by turning the crown in certain position. But with some movements, the hand is not indepently adjustable, in that case this watch is faulty and I would recommend having it realligned by local skilled watchsmith and ask Gunther to reimburse your costs...


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## schieper (Jun 24, 2010)

just checked on my aviaton. Mine is 25 minutes of. But I can't really bother. I liked the GMT handle cause it ads some extra spice to the display. If I ever send it back for maintenance I'll ask if they align it!

The date setting is spot on. The time is app 1 minute minus per day!


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

Picklepossey, I posted an instruction manual I found on the internet the other day. It is for another brand of watch that uses the ETA 2893-2 GMT movement. You may want to take a look. It doesn't have a lot of detail but more than I have found elsewhere.

I have a GMT Ocean Pepsi on its way from Steinhart and with the recent posts wanted to see if I could find a reference. If this does not help I would try emailing Gunter and ask for his assistance.

The post is "ETA 2893-2 Instruction Manual"


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

Edwinwalke, I did actually use your pdf that you posted a week ago I believe. I manaully set it cause it is independent, it seems to be fine but maybe off a minute. I don't really think it will bother me. If I do want to get it re-alligned I have a local watch guy that could fix it and then contact Gunter for reimbursement.


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

My new Vintage GMT is actually off by 15mins on the hour (GMT hand). What to do? I really don't want to send it back and have to pay for all the shipping and then wait and then possibly get stuck with paying the duty fee's. Probably easier to get a watch maker to do it here and then perhaps Gunter can pay me back via paypal? I should then email Gunter and let him know.


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

Yes the gmt is independently set; you turn the crown (at the second pull out) in the opposite direction as changing the date, so clockwise.


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

It's defective and you should send it back. Gunter will pay for shipping if it's defective. Won't cost you a penny. 
He has great CS but it's a shame there seems to be so many with this defect.


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

I sent him an email earlier today. So will see what happens on Monday.


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## exxondus (Sep 10, 2007)

I used to have this issue with my sinn 857 utc. Fortunately, they did an exchange for me n things turned out fine. I am suspecting it could have been a couple of lemons for thr 2893 movements. 

Probably we can highlight to steinhart to tighten their QC for such movements. More so if they are not using the elaborate ones?


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

I don't get it?! If the GMT hand is independent and you can set it manualy by turning the crown clockwise in second pull-out, how can it be misalligned? You simply set it to desired position and then everything is right, right?


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## lgking (Nov 23, 2009)

Yes, I would welcome a clarification on this subject as well. Perhaps it is the watch (wearer) that is defective...?


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## nuovorecord (Nov 27, 2007)

No, the watch is defective. The GMT hand should function the same way a regular hour hand does, with the exception that it goes around the dial once per 24 hours instead of twice.

So, when the minute hand reaches 12:00, the regular hour hand should be lined up exactly with one of the twelve hour indices on the face, and the GMT hand should also be lined up with one of those twelve indices, OR exactly halfway between two of them.

Another way to think of this is that the GMT hand should be pointing at one of the indices on the bezel at the top of every hour, assuming the bezel is lined up with the hour indices.

The GMT hand can be independently adjusted in 1 hour increments, but it should always maintain its relation to the minute hand.

Here's a pic of my old Ocean GMT that had a misaligned hand. It should be pointing exactly at 12, but you can see how far off it is. Might not look like much, but it was about 20 minutes off. Kind defeats the purpose of a device to accurately tell the time, in my view, and wasn't acceptable. But, I just ordered another one of these, so I'm hoping mine won't have this issue.


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## exxondus (Sep 10, 2007)

CzechMate said:


> I don't get it?! If the GMT hand is independent and you can set it manualy by turning the crown clockwise in second pull-out, how can it be misalligned? You simply set it to desired position and then everything is right, right?


For the Eta2893, the hour hand can be set independently BUT it is also tied to the minute hand.

Meaning, when you move the minute hand at crown 2 position, that GMT hand as well as the normal hour hand would both move. Having said that, when you have the crown at position 1, you can move the GMT hour hand by *1 hour* intervals. However, it is still tied to the minute hand, meaning, if you are at half pass 6pm, moving the GMT hand by an hour ahead would still have it pointing in the halfway mark of whichever hour that you want to set.

What the OP is saying is that even when the minute hand is at the 12th marker, the GMT hand does not align nicely to the hour markers.

It is not correct to have the GMT hand being misalign because, you will soon realise that after a few days, the GMT hand could be way out (in view that every hour, it adds a couple of minutes of miss alignment. This was the issue that I had with my Sinn857 and had to have it replaced.) Apparently, Sinn was also having some issues at the initial runs of their 2893s. Hence, this might not be an isolated Steinhart issue. Just need to inform Steinhart to tighten their QC in future when this movement is used thats all.


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

For what it is worth, ETA SA has a Manufacturing Information technical document that I downloaded. It has a section on casing movements and the document for the 2893-2 is unique in that it has a procedure for hand fitting -- "To ensure a good synchronization of the hands, please proceed as follows." If the person casing the movements is not following the procedure the hands are more than likely not going to be synchronized. If you want to look at the document it is at https://secure.eta.ch/CSP/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=2&tabid=28 From the pull down select mecaline specialites and the caliber 2893-2. The document is titled Manufacturing Information. If the people casing the movements are unaware of this process that may be the problem -- this procedure is specific to the 2893-2.


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

nuovorecord said:


> No, the watch is defective. The GMT hand should function the same way a regular hour hand does, with the exception that it goes around the dial once per 24 hours instead of twice.
> 
> So, when the minute hand reaches 12:00, the regular hour hand should be lined up exactly with one of the twelve hour indices on the face, and the GMT hand should also be lined up with one of those twelve indices, OR exactly halfway between two of them.
> 
> ...





exxondus said:


> For the Eta2893, the hour hand can be set independently BUT it is also tied to the minute hand.
> 
> Meaning, when you move the minute hand at crown 2 position, that GMT hand as well as the normal hour hand would both move. Having said that, when you have the crown at position 1, you can move the GMT hour hand by *1 hour* intervals. However, it is still tied to the minute hand, meaning, if you are at half pass 6pm, moving the GMT hand by an hour ahead would still have it pointing in the halfway mark of whichever hour that you want to set.
> 
> ...





edwinwalke said:


> For what it is worth, ETA SA has a Manufacturing Information technical document that I downloaded. It has a section on casing movements and the document for the 2893-2 is unique in that it has a procedure for hand fitting -- "To ensure a good synchronization of the hands, please proceed as follows." If the person casing the movements is not following the procedure the hands are more than likely not going to be synchronized. If you want to look at the document it is at https://secure.eta.ch/CSP/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=2&tabid=28 From the pull down select mecaline specialites and the caliber 2893-2. The document is titled Manufacturing Information. If the people casing the movements are unaware of this process that may be the problem -- this procedure is specific to the 2893-2.


Thank you gentlemen for clarification! Now I understand that this is serious problem and these watches are obviously faulty. I would have it replaced or repaired and I have to say that I am dissapointed it slips through QC department with such obvious flaw... :-(


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

I would not say it is defective the movement may just need to have the hands synchronized. If in fact this is the case there is a very simple fix to precluding further issues in the future. But, I don't know if that is the issue. It is worth asking the question and if the assembly team is unaware of this procedure that is a very easy fix that could save Steinhart a lot of grief and money going forward.


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

Wonderful help here gentlemen. Much appreciated on all the input and knowledge. I tried everything and it just doesn't align. Waiting on Gunter's response.


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## nuovorecord (Nov 27, 2007)

edwinwalke said:


> I would not say it is defective the movement may just need to have the hands synchronized.


That's true. "Defective" implies that it's beyond repair. This is a relatively simple fix that any competent watchmaker can accomplish. Thanks for clarifying.


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

Exactly you 2 above. It is inherently off from the start. The gmt hand jumps when you move it, but it will always be off by X amount no matter what you do. Which stinks for OP and others.


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## Finnanhaddie (Jan 5, 2011)

picklepossy said:


> Wonderful help here gentlemen. Much appreciated on all the input and knowledge. I tried everything and it just doesn't align. Waiting on Gunter's response.


Gunter will likely ask that you return the watch to Germany. The watch may be repaired rather than replaced, since Steinhart now appear to be out of stock on the Ocean Vintage GMT until 10 March at least, unless a replacement can be sourced from some of the Distributers.
Cheers,
Scott.


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

Well I had a vey pleasent conversation with Gunter this morning my time. I called him cause he replied to my email regarding this issue. Gunter was very apologetic. He gave me his FedEx account number and will conver all costs to ship back to him and to have it shipped back. Also, if I get charged duty again he will cover it. Watch will be mailed out tomorrow and will arrive by Wednesday. Then Thursday watchmaker will fix the issue and will have it back by Monday. I can't say enough on how bad he felt. Gunter also mentioned that it did miss his QC because of the mad Christmas rush. He does have a team that checks all watches and is surprised this happened. He did mention to his staff that this cannot happen. I am looking very much to having this fixed and too have it back. The other option was to have a local watch maker fix it but I prefer sending it back cause of the warranty. Look I am alittle upset but these things can happen to anyone and I understand.


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

Picklepossey, I am glad to hear that this is being resolved quickly. Still is a big inconvenience to have to deal with. Did Gunter happen to mention why there seem to be so many issues with the GMTs? 

Hope it all goes well and quickly and you have it back soon without any more Customs charges. I would think that Steinhart could note that the watch is being returned from warranty service and avoid further Customs charges.


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## Chromejob (Jun 18, 2010)

There are few vendors that will cover return shipping for warranty or service work, very few who will share their Fedex account so you don't even spend a nickel. Fedex shipping from the US to Europe isn't cheap, I've priced it. I empathize with your disappointment, but I'm quite impressed that Gunter would give you this level of service. 

Glad that I'm patronizing his company, I admire sellers that are committed to customer satisfaction, and prefer paying with my wallet. I'm sure when you get the watch back, you'll feel much, much better. Who knows, the new watch models may be in stock, and you can order another to accompany this one on the return journey. 

And I'm still irked that I didn't get chocolate with my November order when I could've waited until December. :roll: ;-)


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## Finnanhaddie (Jan 5, 2011)

Chromejob said:


> There are few vendors that will cover return shipping for warranty or service work, very few who will share their Fedex account so you don't even spend a nickel. Fedex shipping from the US to Europe isn't cheap, I've priced it. I empathize with your disappointment, but I'm quite impressed that Gunter would give you this level of service.
> 
> Glad that I'm patronizing his company, I admire sellers that are committed to customer satisfaction, and prefer paying with my wallet. I'm sure when you get the watch back, you'll feel much, much better. Who knows, the new watch models may be in stock, and you can order another to accompany this one on the return journey.
> 
> And I'm still irked that I didn't get chocolate with my November order when I could've waited until December. :roll: ;-)


Chocolate? Have I missed out on something?
Cheers,
Scott.


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

He did mention that if I do get charged he will take care of it.


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

I will have a Marine Chronometer also coming this week. Gunter asked if he should send it with the repair GMT but I said no cause it wouldn't be fair for him to pay double duty on the watches. He will cover the GMT duty and I will pay duty for the Marine Chronometer II Roman.


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

Oh and I also forgot to mention that he will be throwing in a all black buffalo strap with black stitch for the Marine Chronometer II Roman.


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## grabtime (Mar 5, 2010)

That Marine Chrono II is just such a beautiful watch - I can't recommend it enogh


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## exxondus (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm impressed with the service rendered by Steinhart. 

The last time this happened to me, there wasnt any response from Sinn despite sending them an email and I was only covered because I obtained it locally from the AD.


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

Ok now I am upset. I emailed Steinhart 7 days ago and got no email back. Yet you email him and get an email back almost immediately, then a phone conversation, and immediate results to boot. I have faith that my issue will be sorted in the same fashion (covering shipping, etc), yet I don't like the fact that I can email the company many days ago, yet another customer emails and the same day receives an email back on a weekend none the less. I am not very happy. According to your time scale, I would've had my watch back already most likely Monday. All this frustration for me just bc the damn date gets stuck, most likely bc there is something weird on the 14th (number) that seems to be preventing the date transition... grr


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## Riker (Mar 31, 2007)

Well, you got the result that was expected (known) would be offered by Steinhart. 

Gunter is always ready & willing to assist the customer & once again he has done just that. Looking forward to your pics Pickle....;-)

delco, there is a very good chance your email(s) have been caught in a loop. Send it again & if that doesn't work then phone Steinhart. Should the drought remain keep sending the emails or keep calling till you get a reply. On occassion late replies happen but most get a reply within 2 days. Steinhart get a huge amount of email traffic & the phone calls are getting that way to. If they miss an email here there it isn't by design or any conspiracy, it just happens. At least we have the ability to chat with the man personally.....;-)


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## ArticMan (Feb 12, 2010)

schieper said:


> just checked on my aviaton. Mine is 25 minutes of. But I can't really bother. I liked the GMT handle cause it ads some extra spice to the display. If I ever send it back for maintenance I'll ask if they align it!
> 
> The date setting is spot on. The time is app 1 minute minus per day!


Are you saying that your Aviation GMT has misaligned gmt-hand and it runs 1 minute slow/day? You should send it back for reparing before warranty ends.


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

When talking to Gunter, he was telling me that he gets anywhere from 500-600 emails aday. Boy I would hate to have to read that many.


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## Bertelsen (Oct 24, 2010)

Thats a lot of emails! 

I also got a mail from Gunter on sunday, guess he don't has much spare time after the holidays ...


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## Mikeman (Mar 13, 2009)

picklepossy said:


> He did mention that if I do get charged he will take care of it.


when you send it back to Steinhart make sure you list the watch as being returned for repair clearly on the Fed ex paperwork and have them 
(Steinhart)state the exact same thing for when it comes back to you. even better request an email stating repair work was done.
keep all your original paperwork for customs and Fedex to show you did pay your applicable taxes the first time you received the watch.


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

picklepossy said:


> When talking to Gunter, he was telling me that he gets anywhere from 500-600 emails aday. Boy I would hate to have to read that many.


And one other little thing to remember is they are just coming off a well deserved holiday vacation and have a ton of orders to process plus all the other issues that have come up. Out of those 500-600, heaven only knows how many require some time consuming action. Who's issue does he and his staff work first? I ordered a GMT Ocean 1 Pepsi on 7 Jan and have not received shipping instructions yet. I know from reading some of the posts here on the Forum some of you folks have older orders than mine. They have my money and I trust that as soon as possible mine will ship. With the other watches I have laying around the house I will not have a problem keeping track of my time.:-d


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

picklepossy said:


> I will have a Marine Chronometer also coming this week. Gunter asked if he should send it with the repair GMT but I said no cause it wouldn't be fair for him to pay double duty on the watches. He will cover the GMT duty and I will pay duty for the Marine Chronometer II Roman.


As Mike mentioned, you don't pay duty on a repaired item. Steinhart would have saved a little money shipping the two together, which is what I would have done. Conversely, he only needs to write down the value of the new watch for the packages taxable amount.


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## Bertelsen (Oct 24, 2010)

Thats true Uwe. 

But it my experiences the customs aren't that reliable (In my country anyway).
I have some really funny (Not at the time) stories about our dreaded customs in Norway. 

I once ordered a Epos, my first complicated watch (chrono and moonphase), I waited and waited, the watch suddenly appeared at the customs. 
They called me and told that the value written on the package must be wrong or possibly an attempt to fraud the customs. 
The watch, who looked similar to a Patek (LOL), must cost more than aprox 2000 Euros. 

I got really mad, they are accusing me of fraud, after the watch have been at their office for one week (without telling me it). 
They could have googled the watch for pricing-info, called the AD, and so on. 

Then I faxed my PayPal-receipt to them, didn't hear anymore- suddenly the watch got to my post-office, without any VAT-taxes!


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

Uwe W. said:


> As Mike mentioned, you don't pay duty on a repaired item. Steinhart would have saved a little money shipping the two together, which is what I would have done. Conversely, he only needs to write down the value of the new watch for the packages taxable amount.


Watch was shipped out this morning. Man it cost Steinhart $90 for shipping it back to them. It's still not to late to ask Gunter to ship the other watch together. Hopefully FedEx will be smart enough not to double charge me. HAHAHA.


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

Bertelsen said:


> Thats true Uwe.
> 
> But it my experiences the customs aren't that reliable (In my country anyway).
> I have some really funny (Not at the time) stories about our dreaded customs in Norway.
> ...


In my country these customs bastards didn't even bother to ask me for real value when they had doubts. They simply guessed and charged me accordingly. You never know what customs will do with you package....


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

CzechMate said:


> In my country these customs bastards didn't even bother to ask me for real value when they had doubts. They simply guessed and charged me accordingly. You never know what customs will do with you package....


They are TAX collectors and wear the same face everywhere.


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## Chromejob (Jun 18, 2010)

Maybe this sidebar discussion belongs here. :think:


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## nuovorecord (Nov 27, 2007)

Getting back to the topic of GMT hands and such...

Just thought I'd report that I got my Ocean GMT today and the GMT hand is properly aligned. So, no returns on this watch! :-!


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

nuovorecord said:


> Getting back to the topic of GMT hands and such...
> 
> Just thought I'd report that I got my Ocean GMT today and the GMT hand is properly aligned. So, returns on this watch! :-!


Wish I could say the same about my GMT Ocean 1. The 24 hr GMT hand is off about 1/2 hour. Sent email to Gunter requesting return instructions for repair. Was also surprised that it has the old style bezel. I thought they were gone when the supply ran out in November and they changed the pictures on the website. Otherwise the watch is absolutely great. The Eta 2993 crown is really smooth.


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## Riker (Mar 31, 2007)

*Pleased to hear it mate.... Enjoy it...* :-!



nuovorecord said:


> Getting back to the topic of GMT hands and such...
> 
> Just thought I'd report that I got my Ocean GMT today and the GMT hand is properly aligned. So, no returns on this watch! :-!


*Hmmmm, bummer Ed..... Well, once you have discussed the GMT thing with Gunter also ask about having the bezel swapped...*



edwinwalke said:


> Wish I could say the same about my GMT Ocean 1. The 24 hr GMT hand is off about 1/2 hour. Sent email to Gunter requesting return instructions for repair. Was also surprised that it has the old style bezel. I thought they were gone when the supply ran out in November and they changed the pictures on the website. Otherwise the watch is absolutely great. The Eta 2993 crown is really smooth.


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## jjenk123 (Nov 24, 2009)

edwinwalke said:


> Wish I could say the same about my GMT Ocean 1. The 24 hr GMT hand is off about 1/2 hour. Sent email to Gunter requesting return instructions for repair. Was also surprised that it has the old style bezel. I thought they were gone when the supply ran out in November and they changed the pictures on the website. Otherwise the watch is absolutely great. The Eta 2993 crown is really smooth.


Well I think I want to send mine back for repair as well since mine is 15 minutes off


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

This is real weird... more and more being GMT hands off... real bad batch. Sucks for Steinhart, they'll be losing a lot of $ having to ship watches back and forth, replacing or fixing them..
I am still going to order a O1 GMT but I gotta admit it is a bit of a turn off. They really should be more careful with quality check before shipping to avoid a bad rep and also save shipping cost. Hope they are addressing with the supplier/manufacturer!


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## Riker (Mar 31, 2007)

As it stands at present it hasn't been determined whether the issue with the GMT hand is happening prior to leaving the house of Steinhart or during transit to the customer. However, to me it seems odd that Steinhart would even allow all of these watches be sent with this same problem......... We'll see how it pans out as it is being looked into at Steinhart...;-)



Jeep99dad said:


> This is real weird... more and more being GMT hands off... real bad batch. Sucks for Steinhart, they'll be losing a lot of $ having to ship watches back and forth, replacing or fixing them..
> I am still going to order a O1 GMT but I gotta admit it is a bit of a turn off. They really should be more careful with quality check before shipping to avoid a bad rep and also save shipping cost. Hope they are addressing with the supplier/manufacturer!


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## ArticMan (Feb 12, 2010)

There should be major damages in packages if they were hitted so hard that wathces, which are attached relatively loosely to the soft cushion, hands are moved during the transition. If that would be the case one could not wear these watches normally without GMT-hand misaligment in some point.


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

ArticMan said:


> There should be major damages in packages if they were hitted so hard that wathces, which are attached relatively loosely to the soft cushion, hands are moved during the transition. If that would be the case one could not wear these watches normally without GMT-hand misaligment in some point.


I am thinking the same thing. I am finding it hard the believe that the hands are being misaligned during the shipment due to shock. Mine came packed in a FedEX bubble wrap shipping envelope. The watch was in the inter box which is very nicely cushioned. There is also the thin outer cardboard box. If shock from being shipped in this method will cause the problem I would think that normal wear could also cause the misalignment.

My thought is the hand setting procedure for casing the movement that is published by ETA is not being followed in all cases. I am not a watch expert but that does seem logical. I also wonder how many GMT ETA 2893's are out their misaligned and the owner is clueless to the problem because they either don't use the function or don't have a clue how it supposed to work.

I hate to have to send the watch back and as Jeep99Dad mentioned the expense has to be mounting for Steinhart.

Having said all that it is still a gorgeous watch that I am anxious to get on my wrist.


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## Riker (Mar 31, 2007)

A quick update..... It seems the theme in this thread could be suggesting that this issue is quite large or that many watches are having this problem which in actual fact it isn't. Steinhart have sold hundreds of these Vintage GMT's having already sold out twice & only a very small number have had any issues, in this case GMT mis-alignment issues. So the expense to Steinhart isn't at all mounting any more than it would for any other watch. Many other brands using this same movement have noticed similar issues to what Steinhart currently is. Again, the numbers are not high but the problems with the 2893-2 GMT function are similar across brands. It could come down to a few different factors that ultimately cause the same end result. Probably not the best performing movement out of the ETA stables generally speaking...

So whilst a few of you have had mis-alignment issues with the GMT it really isn't a QC issue with Steinhart & the number of Vintage GMT's affected are actually very small. Thankfully though it can be corrected but whether the correction lasts...?????

Have a good weekend fella's...;-)


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

I have had watches that had this problem and my local watch repairman charged me a whole $26.00 to fix the problem. Sending a watch back for free repairs is sometimes not worth the hassle. Especially if you have to deal with customs.


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

Riker said:


> It could come down to a few different factors that ultimately cause the same end result. Probably not the best performing movement out of the ETA stables generally speaking...Thankfully though it can be corrected but whether the correction lasts?


Sorry James, but are you being intentionally vague? Let's forget for a minute about how many watches or what percentage of watches being sold have this misalignment problem. Let's discuss what the actual problem is. You mention that the problem can "come down to few different factors". Well okay, what are they? Then you essentially blame this problem on a poorly designed ETA movement and claim that correcting the misalignment won't necessarily last.

I own a few GMTs with this ETA movement and none were delivered with misaligned GMT hands, nor have any suffered from misalignment issues after years of use. Sorry, I'm bot buying the inferior ETA design argument. I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I would like to better understand what exactly is happening to all of these watches. If Steinhart's QC is good (and there's no reason to doubt that it isn't) and the hands are properly aligned when leaving Steinhart, what on earth is happening to these watches that would cause them arrive out of alignment? I'm pursuing this partly because of the Proteus project which uses the same movement. Thanks.


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## castle (Feb 22, 2008)

Just wanted to balance the problems some have had with my experience- Ocean 1 GMT arrived during the week and hand alignment is perfect. My first Steinhart, enjoying it already.


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## ArticMan (Feb 12, 2010)

one can misalign GMT-hand by himself. I played around a little and here are the results. At starting point aligment was perfect. (sorry about the crappy self phone pictures)

Step one misaligned 8 minutes:










Step 2 perfect aligment:










and watch running passing the midnight:










I have never noticed that aligment would have been changed while wearing the watch.

---


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## nuovorecord (Nov 27, 2007)

Just to be clear, the mis-alignment issue I had with my previous Ocean GMT was a matter of being 30 minutes off. To me, that was an issue as it renders the GMT function, for all intents and purposes, useless.

I probably wouldn't sweat the situation that ArticMan presented, had that been the case with my GMT.


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

ArticMan said:


> one can misalign GMT-hand by himself. I played around a little and here are the results. At starting point aligment was perfect. (sorry about the crappy self phone pictures) Step one misaligned 8 minutes:


I'm not sure what you're talking about; it looks like it's perfectly aligned in the first picture to me. The GMT hand runs on a 24 hour sweep, which means the gap between the 6 and 7 o'clock position represents two hours. To me, the hairline offset the GMT hand in you first picture shows past the 6 o'clock index would be representative of roughly eight minutes and the position of the minute hand. Please explain...

No offense to others, but there's no need to show, "balance" or defend your perfectly aligned GMT models. We understand that this is a problem in a small percentage of watches, which obviously don't include yours. There's no need to defend Steinhart's honour here - that isn't up for debate. I think those that ARE experiencing alignment problems would like to understand exactly what has being going wrong.


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

X2 exactly my feelings...



Uwe W. said:


> Sorry James, but are you being intentionally vague? Let's forget for a minute about how many watches or what percentage of watches being sold have this misalignment problem. Let's discuss what the actual problem is. You mention that the problem can "come down to few different factors". Well okay, what are they? Then you essentially blame this problem on a poorly designed ETA movement and claim that correcting the misalignment won't necessarily last.
> 
> I own a few GMTs with this ETA movement and none were delivered with misaligned GMT hands, nor have any suffered from misalignment issues after years of use. Sorry, I'm bot buying the inferior ETA design argument. I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I would like to better understand what exactly is happening to all of these watches. If Steinhart's QC is good (and there's no reason to doubt that it isn't) and the hands are properly aligned when leaving Steinhart, what on earth is happening to these watches that would cause them arrive out of alignment? I'm pursuing this partly because of the Proteus project which uses the same movement. Thanks.


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

Riker said:


> A quick update..... It seems the theme in this thread could be suggesting that this issue is quite large or that many watches are having this problem which in actual fact it isn't. Steinhart have sold hundreds of these Vintage GMT's having already sold out twice & only a very small number have had any issues, in this case GMT mis-alignment issues. So the expense to Steinhart isn't at all mounting any more than it would for any other watch. Many other brands using this same movement have noticed similar issues to what Steinhart currently is. Again, the numbers are not high but the problems with the 2893-2 GMT function are similar across brands. It could come down to a few different factors that ultimately cause the same end result. *Probably not the best performing movement out of the ETA stables generally speaking...*
> 
> So whilst a few of you have had mis-alignment issues with the GMT *it really isn't a QC issue with Steinhart* & the number of Vintage GMT's affected are actually very small. Thankfully though it can be corrected but whether the correction lasts...?????
> 
> Have a good weekend fella's...;-)


James
I am glad it is a smaller # than we think, it is true that we mostly draw attentions to defective watches or unhappy customer situations... than to the positive ones. Obvisouly Steinhart sells many great watches that are delievered in perfect condition running as they should...
I also understand you love Steinhart and have their best interest at heart (I am still unclear as to your relationship with them as I see you post in almsot all Steinhart treads;-)), however, even though from a cost standpoint they are ok, I think we've heard of several examples in a short period of time which to me is cause for concerns and something that should be looked into deeper. I also do not agree it is related to shipping as suggested before.
What I disagree with is your statement on the performance of the 2893 and also that it is not a Steinhart QC issue. As much as I love Steinhart and want to buy a GMT (and I will), these watches were shipped with a misaligned hand which I'll losely call a defect and not the way it is meant to be. So I think Steinhart should investigate further because if it is not yet cost prohibitive to ship and reship watches, fix/replace them... it could become in the future and it to me is potential reputational risk. Nothig against Steinhart, they make great watches and there is no doubt he takes prides in offering great CS when issues arise.. but truly the trick is not having these issues in the first place or consistently working towards minimizing them.
Cheers


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

When I got home from work today Gunter had responded to my email from last evening and ask me to return the watch. He provided his FedEX account # to charge it to so it is on it way back. I am attaching a picture I took of the watch to show the alignment problem. I tried many times to see if I could get them to align but with no success. It is off by about 30 minutes.

Well, at any rate Gunter wasted no time on responding and providing a solution. I hate that he has to bear more cost for the additional shipping, etc. I would also rather be wearing the watch than having it going back.


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## ArticMan (Feb 12, 2010)

Uwe W. said:


> I'm not sure what you're talking about; it looks like it's perfectly aligned in the first picture to me. The GMT hand runs on a 24 hour sweep, which means the gap between the 6 and 7 o'clock position represents two hours. To me, the hairline offset the GMT hand in you first picture shows past the 6 o'clock index would be representative of roughly eight minutes and the position of the minute hand. Please explain...
> 
> No offense to others, but there's no need to show, "balance" or defend your perfectly aligned GMT models. We understand that this is a problem in a small percentage of watches, which obviously don't include yours. There's no need to defend Steinhart's honour here - that isn't up for debate. I think those that ARE experiencing alignment problems would like to understand exactly what has being going wrong.


What I mean is that offset in first picture is eight minutes as you said. In other words, when GMT hand is perfectly in a middle of a hour mark, minute hand is 8 minutes past. In a second and third pictures you can see perfect aligment. Both minute and GMT hands are aligned perfectly in a middle of the hour mark.


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## ArticMan (Feb 12, 2010)

edwinwalke said:


> When I got home from work today Gunter had responded to my email from last evening and ask me to return the watch. He provided his FedEX account # to charge it to so it is on it way back. I am attaching a picture I took of the watch to show the alignment problem. I tried many times to see if I could get them to align but with no success. It is off by about 30 minutes.
> 
> Well, at any rate Gunter wasted no time on responding and providing a solution. I hate that he has to bear more cost for the additional shipping, etc. I would also rather be wearing the watch than having it going back.


That is a real offset, mine is more like feature of the movement and got nothing to do with bad hand aligment at first place. I was just trying to say than minor offset can be caused by user himself.


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## Riker (Mar 31, 2007)

Uwe, Jeep, I don't know what the problem is & neither does Steinhart really other than the GMT hand is becoming mis-aligned, that is why I may seem as though I am being vague. Being intentionally vague, no Uwe...;-) If the problem was known then obviously this issue wouldn't have any momentum. 

Simply put the movement (GMT hand alignment) has been causing some trouble but it isn't a big issue re: amount of problems, but as always, Steinhart will be looking into it. That is what they do, that is what they always do to make improvements or fix problems just as all other brands/makers do....|>


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

Uwe W. said:


> Sorry James, but are you being intentionally vague? Let's forget for a minute about how many watches or what percentage of watches being sold have this misalignment problem. Let's discuss what the actual problem is. You mention that the problem can "come down to few different factors". Well okay, what are they? Then you essentially blame this problem on a poorly designed ETA movement and claim that correcting the misalignment won't necessarily last.
> 
> I own a few GMTs with this ETA movement and none were delivered with misaligned GMT hands, nor have any suffered from misalignment issues after years of use. Sorry, I'm bot buying the inferior ETA design argument. I'm not sure about anyone else here, but I would like to better understand what exactly is happening to all of these watches. If Steinhart's QC is good...


Completely agree. Vague statements without arguments will not resolve anything. All these statements do is a harm to Steinhart. It looks like blind defense.

After reading about ETAs special instructions regarding this movement, I personaly believe this problem is caused by ignoring these instructions during completion of these watches and by overlooking this during QC. I am not suggesting that this is a system error! These faulty watches indeed are in minority and it happens everywhere, where people are involved in such a higly demanding task. It is normal and the most important fact is, that Steinhart takes extremely good care of his customers, so everyone will have his watch repaired.

Lets not overinflate this issue and lets not pretend that this cannot happen to Steinhart. It can happen to any manufacturer and it is normal...


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## Chromejob (Jun 18, 2010)

Quality control and quality assurance are human endeavors, and when those humans are performing under pressure (e.g. holiday order frenzies, fulfilling back order lists), some mistakes can occur. It's nothing to get defensive or angry about -- it happens. My first Steinhart has a very, very tiny scratch on the sapphire crystal's AR coating (inside) that I didn't notice until doing photography ... and can rarely see as it lies right over a minute tick on the dial.

I've looked at many other photos of Ocean Ones in these threads and see nothing similar (in macro closeups), so I don't worry about it. Nor am I going to incur the expense on myself or Gunter for shipping for a swap-out.

All this to say, nothing's perfect in this world. Expect idiosyncracies. That Gunter readily pays for remedies to these glitches ensures that the reputation, and output, of his watch company is top shelf. I'm looking forward to my next purchase from him. In fact, I can't wait for the possible DLC GMT model that was hinted at a few months back. b-)

BTW, I bought a second hand Ocean 1-GMT last year from a "watchmaker" in Michigan. On arrival, the GMT hand could not be set at all. I returned it to the seller, who insisted (in feedback even, the idiot :roll that it was operating properly, and I "didn't know what _ was talking about." I mail bombed him with 9 different operating instructions for the ETA 2893 movement, all showing proper procedure for setting the 24H hand. (And had the last laugh on the feedback.) The bracelet also had some significant damage to it (clasp didn't close flat), indicating some misuse. ... Some poor bugger bought the watch when it was relisted for US$100 more. Whether the seller quietly fixed it after libeling me, or sold it to some dupe who wouldn't know, I couldn't say.

So bear in mind the 2893 isn't invicible ... just sturdy._


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

edwinwalke said:


> When I got home from work today Gunter had responded to my email from last evening...


Lucky you... over 2 weeks and 2 emails, no response. I bought a strap on Friday night, got an email this morning about the purchase.. tsk. Guess ill have to call. You guys' gmt hands are off.. but my date doesn't change!


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## zippofan (Feb 11, 2006)

I just received my Ocean Vintage GMT today, unfortunately my GMT hand is quite a bit off as well. I have written to Steinhart for assistance.

It is an awesome watch though


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## Nyegaard (Jan 18, 2011)

zippofan said:


> I just received my Ocean Vintage GMT today, unfortunately my GMT hand is quite a bit off as well. I have written to Steinhart for assistance.
> 
> It is an awesome watch though


I can easily see how a batch of these got through QA, but shipping out watches now after it has been pointed out still with the flaw.... ?

That's a bit silly.

I really like Steinhart as a company (even tho they've ignored some mails of mine in the past, it happens..) and their products, but I really do think they need to learn how to hurry slowly.
It's far better to have angry customers because they have to wait to get whatever they ordered then to have angry customers spreading bile and creating a bad rep because the products you shipped off in a hurry simply doesn't work properly.

Many of us have been in this position during our careers, and for me it's quite clear that the angry _waiting _customer is a lot easier to deal with on so many levels. Especially if you do your job right in adjusting their expectations from the very start. It's hard to learn how to say "no" or "not now" or "it will take 3 weeks before we ship" but in the long run it's a lot better for both customers and company.


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## zippofan (Feb 11, 2006)

Well, I could be angry, but how often do you get a personal reply from the president of a watch company? I think that shows a class act. Who know why this is happening, it is what it is. I will be very happy with the watch once it gets straightened out, it is a great looking, and from what I can see, well finished piece.


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

zippofan said:


> Well, I could be angry, but how often do you get a personal reply from the president of a watch company? I think that shows a class act. Who know why this is happening, it is what it is. I will be very happy with the watch once it gets straightened out, it is a great looking, and from what I can see, well finished piece.


The first GMT Ocean i received on Jan 20 had the misaligned GMT hand and the old style bezel. I emailed Gunter and he replied the next day and ask me to return it at his expense and that he would provide an replacement as soon as possible. I got my replacement 2 Feb and it is PERFECT. Gunter and his team do a remarkable job with the resources they have and I am sure he has chosen to keep his operation small so he can offer great products at minimum cost.


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

zippofan said:


> Well, I could be angry, but how often do you get a personal reply from the president of a watch company? I think that shows a class act. Who know why this is happening, it is what it is. I will be very happy with the watch once it gets straightened out, it is a great looking, and from what I can see, well finished piece.


Well it's such a small operation that there is nothing unusual about "The President" replying to email. 
It's definitely not worth getting angry though, just a watch but it is frustrating and an inconcenience. 
I also find it off they keep shipping defective watch, someone really ought to check them first. 
It's by no means acceptable to me whether the watch cost 100, 500 or 1000 dollars. Just my opinion. 
And I do know Gunter ultimately makes things right but quality and good CS starts with getting things right the first time arOund.


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

Jeep99dad said:


> Well it's such a small operation that there is nothing unusual about "The President" replying to email.
> It's definitely not worth getting angry though, just a watch but it is frustrating and an inconcenience.
> I also find it off they keep shipping defective watch, someone really ought to check them first.
> It's by no means acceptable to me whether the watch cost 100, 500 or 1000 dollars. Just my opinion.
> And I do know Gunter ultimately makes things right but quality and good CS starts with getting things right the first time arOund.


I have to agree with what you say about the shipping defective watches. Unless the GMT hand alignment is being affected during shipment ( and I seriously doubt it) a quick 5 minute of less check could detect the problem watches. I have no idea what kind of volume they do and I also don't know how much assembly they do in Augsburg. If all the assembly is done in Jura, Switzerland then they need to have a discussion with their supplier. My watch replacement cost Steinhart at a minimum two FedEX shipments which are not cheap. A little upfront effort would save a lot downstream. Bottom line -- I don't run his business and I like what he sells and will continue to buy because it is good in the end.


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

Edwin, you're on the money again. The risk of buying steinhart is marginal. Small chance your watch needs to be fixed, smaller chance it's defective. In either case, the shipping and fixing is covered by the company. Your risk: the inconvenience of not having the watch for about a week or 2. Definitely worth it!


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## Nyegaard (Jan 18, 2011)

delco714 said:


> Edwin, you're on the money again. The risk of buying steinhart is marginal. Small chance your watch needs to be fixed, smaller chance it's defective. In either case, the shipping and fixing is covered by the company. Your risk: the inconvenience of not having the watch for about a week or 2. Definitely worth it!


The discussion isn't really about if Steinhart will fix it, because they will, but why on earth this slips through, and keeps slipping through, their QA.

It's not acceptable to fail on the QA level constantly. I know a lot of you guys on this board really love the brand, but please stop trying to sell this as okay. It's not okay to ship bad apples constantly. They loose a lot of money on it and we as customers loose a lot of faith and the brand looses esteem.


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

Exactly, I love Steinhart and know in the end they'll make things right but as a business man you need to get things right the first time. As for the person Saying there is a marginal chance... I've bought 4 new watches from them, 2 had issues. As a client I don't call this a marginal chance. 
As much as we love the brands, there is a line between blind love/kool-aid drinking and reasonnable business practices and expectations. I think it is our duty to bring those issues to light and hopefully help Steinhart correct an issue and hopefully improve their pre-shipping QC if not initial quality product out of the factory! The goal is not bashing Steinhart, a great company that may have been growing too fast for its staff to keep up(?), but to inform people, discuss it amongst WIS and help Steinhart with awareness. Obviously we still love the brand and most keep bugling.


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you guys. I think it's BS to ship watches out with such obvious mechanical flaws. And like you, I can't even begin to think where it all is going wrong. And trust me, I like the brand, but I am by no means in love and taking its back wholeheartedly. The issue certainly needs to be fixed. Maybe I was too nice in my previous post. As it stands, they just need to stop shipping out defects, HOWEVER, if you happen to get one, you know you will be taken care of, which is always nice... I guess.


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

delco714 said:


> Don't get me wrong, I agree with you guys. I think it's BS to ship watches out with such obvious mechanical flaws. And like you, I can't even begin to think where it all is going wrong. And trust me, I like the brand, but I am by no means in love and taking its back wholeheartedly. The issue certainly needs to be fixed. Maybe I was too nice in my previous post. As it stands, they just need to stop shipping out defects, HOWEVER, if you happen to get one, you know you will be taken care of, which is always nice... I guess.


After I got my first GMT Ocean with the misaligned 24 hour hand and after sending an email I called Steinhart and happen to get Gunter. I was calling to confirm an approximate date of getting the replacement as the site showed 15 March as the next available. Gunter assured me that I would get a replacement with the new bezel the following week. I brought up the hand alignment issue and mentioned the ETA document that has the text that covers the hand alignment procedure during casing the movement. I asked if he had seen it and offered to send it which I did during our call. I got my replacement as promised and it is perfect. I think he knows what is going on with the hand alignment problem he is just having a difficult time getting the supplier to tighten up their processes. I have no idea what the relationship is with the supplier and how cooperative they may be to admit that they need to improve their QC. Things like this take time especially when they are the only source of supply at the present time and he has a ton of demand for the products. We don't know the ins and outs of all this so to judge is a little unfair. My position is I like what he delivers at the price and can put up with the inconvenience.


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

Well my Vintage GMT is back and all fixed after 2 weeks. Gunter did a great job to have it repaired. I am now happy that it is back on my wrist. Really enjoy this watch.


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## Finnanhaddie (Jan 5, 2011)

picklepossy said:


> Well my Vintage GMT is back and all fixed after 2 weeks. Gunter did a great job to have it repaired. I am now happy that it is back on my wrist. Really enjoy this watch.


All's well and ends well.

Enjoy wearing it,

Cheers,

Scott.


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

Good news! Wear it in good health!


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## primerak (Sep 1, 2010)

Can anyone advise approx. how much will a local watchmaker charge to align/sync the gmt hand?


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

primerak said:


> Can anyone advise approx. how much will a local watchmaker charge to align/sync the gmt hand?


Mine would probably charge me $20. But he likes me and I bring him coffee. Who knows what your local guy would charge. What's 'local' anyway? Are you in Hong Kong, Berlin or Los Angeles? Someone who lives in your area might be able to give you a concise answer but you'll need to tell us what area you're talking about.


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## primerak (Sep 1, 2010)

Uwe W. said:


> Mine would probably charge me $20. But he likes me and I bring him coffee. Who knows what your local guy would charge. What's 'local' anyway? Are you in Hong Kong, Berlin or Los Angeles? Someone who lives in your area might be able to give you a concise answer but you'll need to tell us what area you're talking about.


Thanks Uwe W. - Thats what I wanted to know b4 taking mine in for adjustment. Sounds simple enough and not too expensive. Last time I saw local watchmaker they wanted to do this, that, and the other thing...which seemed unnecessary. BTW I'm in Singapore should anyone know a reliable watchmaker here. Cheers.


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

primerak said:


> Thanks Uwe W. - Thats what I wanted to know b4 taking mine in for adjustment. Sounds simple enough and not too expensive. Last time I saw local watchmaker they wanted to do this, that, and the other thing...which seemed unnecessary. BTW I'm in Singapore should anyone know a reliable watchmaker here. Cheers.


There are lots of guys from Singapore here, I hope one has a good recommendation for you. You do have to be careful when selecting a watchmaker - some will charge a LOT of money. Good luck.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

I paid $25 to have the inside of my crystal cleaned and have the gmt hand aligned on a Seapro. It might have been less if I didn't need to have smudges removed from the crystal.


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## a pine tree (Sep 15, 2010)

Well, I just received my Ocean 1 gmt today. Surprise, surprise, the gmt hand was out of synch. So, it looks like some of the "new batch' of gmts are not without this same problem. Back to Germany it goes... Gunter must be kicking himself each time he has to ship a misaligned watch back and forth (I know I am)
o|o|o|o|o|o|o|o|
o|o|o|o|o|o|o|o|


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

Sorry to hear you have that problem too and have to go through that inconvenience too. You know he'll take care of it ultimately but it still sucks and it's frustrating to have to to go through this. They need to take care of this before to shipping to avoid customer impact and rework! They have one of my watches for warranty work too, been two weeks and no update. When I ask about it and what the problem is, if it'll be fixed or replaced... They just tell me they'll let me know. 
I've heard too Many of these stories now and decided against ordering the Ocean GMT for now.


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## a pine tree (Sep 15, 2010)

Jeep99dad said:


> Sorry to hear you have that problem too and have to go through that inconvenience too. You know he'll take care of it ultimately but it still sucks and it's frustrating to have to to go through this. They need to take care of this before to shipping to avoid customer impact and rework! They have one of my watches for warranty work too, been two weeks and no update. When I ask about it and what the problem is, if it'll be fixed or replaced... They just tell me they'll let me know.
> I've heard too Many of these stories now and decided against ordering the Ocean GMT for now.


Yikes!
Does anyone know how long it takes to get this gmt hand issue fixed?


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## 808philo (Oct 1, 2010)

I too have a new GMT ocean with the same alignment problem. However, mine has an additional twist. If I align the hands for midnight, the GMT is "one minute/mark" ahead. If I manually advance the time a full 24 hours, it will advance with the same offset and eventually return to the same positions at midnight. However, if I let the time advance normally, the GMT hand will advance more quickly will hit the 24hour mark before the "standard" hands reach 10pm. Any thoughts? Is this something a watchmaker can fix?


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## a pine tree (Sep 15, 2010)

808philo said:


> I too have a new GMT ocean with the same alignment problem. However, mine has an additional twist. If I align the hands for midnight, the GMT is "one minute/mark" ahead. If I manually advance the time a full 24 hours, it will advance with the same offset and eventually return to the same positions at midnight. However, if I let the time advance normally, the GMT hand will advance more quickly will hit the 24hour mark before the "standard" hands reach 10pm. Any thoughts? Is this something a watchmaker can fix?


What the hell is wrong with all of these 2893s??


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## delco714 (Nov 30, 2010)

More so then the gmt that's for sure. My shipping in november with a bad date wheel mechanism and a bad rotor winding mechanism. Back from steinhart, the watch is now working superbly. We try to look on the bright side with knowing it will be fixed for free, alas we all wish we received the watch with no problems originally!


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## SupaPictave (Apr 5, 2011)

Hi all !

Just to add my 2cts to the topic, this GMT misalignement issue is not specific to Steinhart. I bought few weeks ago a Christopher Ward C60 Trident GMT, wonderful timepiece, but it had exactly the same problem : GMT hand misaligned, about 25 minutes off the hour. I sent it back for servicing, then CW sent me a complete new watch. I received it yesterday, and the new one has the same problem.

The caliber is the same, an ETA 2893-2, so it's probably not the watchmaker's fault. Apparently there's a full batch of defective calibers on the market. But I wonder how these defective watches go through quality checks before selling (_that's _the watchmaker's fault).
I'm glad I bought a Steinhart Ocean 1 black instead of a GMT one. No more ETA 2893-2 for me.


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

I to stay away from GMT's


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## Chromejob (Jun 18, 2010)

I had bought a second hand Steinhart GMT-Ocean from a eBay seller in Mighigan last year. It arrived with the 24h hand synced fine ... but could not be set from the 2nd stem position (as per all the 2893-2 manuals). The seller refused to accept that it was defective, blamed me for not knowing how to operate the watch (but left me positive feedback with a derisive comment :think. 

It went on sale again 2 weeks later for $100 more and I didn't notice any feedback from that sale. This same seller has just listed a "new without tags" GMT-Ocean ... and it looks like the same one he sold to me used (caseback certainly doesn't look NOS). 

The clasp had received some damage and a shoddy attempt to repair, but I truly wonder if something else was to blame for the 24h hand problem. (Not being familiar with the inner mechanism, I could be way, way off-base here.)


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## 818Guy (Mar 18, 2008)

SupaPictave said:


> Hi all !
> 
> Just to add my 2cts to the topic, this GMT misalignement issue is not specific to Steinhart. I bought few weeks ago a Christopher Ward C60 Trident GMT, wonderful timepiece, but it had exactly the same problem : GMT hand misaligned, about 25 minutes off the hour. I sent it back for servicing, then CW sent me a complete new watch. I received it yesterday, and the new one has the same problem.
> 
> ...


This must have been a huge batch. My Ocean Vintage GMT does not align either. Seems to be about 6-9 minutes off depending on the hour (which I find strange). I just got the watch yesterday (July 18, 2011) so I'm waiting a bit and wearing it to see if anything improves. Kinda bummed because I had read this thread before buying my GMT and asked Steinhart to check the alignment. Oh well...


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I just noticed something particular on my Vintage. My GMT hand is also off by about 5 minutes - not enough for me to really worry about. If I can find a local watchmaker I trust to fix it and pressure test it, and Gunter agrees to warrantee the repair, I'll get it done.

I just ran through the "hand exercise" routine as posted on 2893-2 PDF manual and noticed that my GMT had is perfect if I "back" into the hour. For example, the manual tells you to open to the crown to the time setting and rotate the time between say 5:30 PM and 6:30 PM (probably any hour or so period not within the date flipping window is OK). When I advance the hands to the next hour, my GMT hand is 6 minutes slow (per normal). When I rotate backward to correct hour, the GMT hand is perfect.

It is about to be the top of the hour so I am going to try this again - advance 1 hour and then back again to see if this centers the GMT hand. If it does "fix" it (I can only imagine it due to some lag in the gear train), I'll report back. I'll also let you know if the "fix" lasts.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

OK - I just did the "advance / move back" trick and the GMT hand is now centered on the hour.

I'll update this thread in a few hours to see if the "hand exercise" worked.


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## 818Guy (Mar 18, 2008)

Ryeguy said:


> I just noticed something particular on my Vintage. My GMT hand is also off by about 5 minutes - not enough for me to really worry about. If I can find a local watchmaker I trust to fix it and pressure test it, and Gunter agrees to warrantee the repair, I'll get it done.
> 
> I just ran through the "hand exercise" routine as posted on 2893-2 PDF manual and noticed that my GMT had is perfect if I "back" into the hour. For example, the manual tells you to open to the crown to the time setting and rotate the time between say 5:30 PM and 6:30 PM (probably any hour or so period not within the date flipping window is OK). When I advance the hands to the next hour, my GMT hand is 6 minutes slow (per normal). When I rotate backward to correct hour, the GMT hand is perfect.
> 
> It is about to be the top of the hour so I am going to try this again - advance 1 hour and then back again to see if this centers the GMT hand. If it does "fix" it (I can only imagine it due to some lag in the gear train), I'll report back. I'll also let you know if the "fix" lasts.


Interesting. Thanks for the info. I may give it at try as well.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Well, that didn't work. The lag is back to its normal 7 or so minutes. It appears the only solution is to have the hand manually adjusted.


I'm just not comfortable openning the case until I know the watchmaker has the ability to pressure test. I don't want a simple hand adjustment to become a movement replacement due to a pinched gasket!


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## 818Guy (Mar 18, 2008)

.

I have a general question for those with the Vintage GMT: when you say it's not aligning, do you mean it's not aligning with the lume dots? or not aligning with the markers on the bezel?

I ask this question because I sorta had a revelation today.

I noticed that not all of my lume dots are squared exactly with the bezel markers.

So, watching the GMT hand as the minute hand approached the top of the hour, it would almost align with the markers on the bezel (within one minute it seemed) at the top of the hour.

But if I used the lume dots for my GMT time, that is when I would see the variance. Right now the GMT hand is about 4 minutes slow to align with the center of the lume dots.

I did specifically notice that my lume dots at 11 and 13 of the bezel (actually hash marks) are not centered.

Any thoughts on this as a possible "reason" for the GMT hand not being correct? That it could be the dial and not the movement? :think: (Sorry if this possible reason has been posted, I must have missed it.)

Borrowed picture for educational purposes (stock photo that is small but to give an idea of what I'm writing about):


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## Riker (Mar 31, 2007)

818, the guys are refering to the GMT hand not aligning accurately in the 24hr cycle with the appropriate 12hr cycle ie: For me I have my Proteus 24hr GMT hand set 2hrs behind my 12hr hand, so an example is 8pm aligns perfectly to GMT 18pm...


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

818Guy said:


> .
> 
> I did specifically notice that my lume dots at 11 and 13 of the bezel (actually hash marks) are not centered.
> 
> ...


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## va812 (May 31, 2011)

818Guy said:


> I have a general question for those with the Vintage GMT: when you say it's not aligning, do you mean it's not aligning with the lume dots? or not aligning with the markers on the bezel?


Both. The lume dots are perfectly aligned to the bezel markers on mine. The GMT hand, not so much, until recently (I got mine fixed, which I will report on in another post).


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## 818Guy (Mar 18, 2008)

Riker said:


> 818, the guys are refering to the GMT hand not aligning accurately in the 24hr cycle with the appropriate 12hr cycle ie: For me I have my Proteus 24hr GMT hand set 2hrs behind my 12hr hand, so an example is 8pm aligns perfectly to GMT 18pm...


Lines up where on the watch? The bezel or the lume markers? That is where I see a difference. If I use the bezel markers it is almost spot on (the GMT hand). However, if I use the lume markers, on the dial, I'm about 4 minutes off -- and to be clear, I'm looking at when the GMT hand is in the middle of the lume markers. I guess an argument could be made to say that once the GMT hand is at the lume marker it's on that hour indicated on the bezel.

Right now mine is close enough that I'm not going to have it opened up.

.


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## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

okay... A year had passed. How're the recent batch of GMTs from STEINHART? No more issues right?


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

Ed.YANG said:


> okay... A year had passed. How're the recent batch of GMTs from STEINHART? No more issues right?


If it was still a problem it would have continued to be reported; forum users aren't known for their reluctance to complain about issues with the products they've bought.


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