# Zenith Ultra Thin (cal 681) vs Jaeger LeCoultre Ultra Thin (cal 896) ???



## hoginelli (Jul 20, 2009)

I am interested in your thoughts about the Zenith Ultra Thin (cal 681) as compared to the Jaeger LeCoultre Ultra Thin (cal 896) ???? putting the "Master Control" and gold rotor aspects of the JLC movement aside, is the JLC really worth the almost double list price of the Zenith ??? ..... also the JLC has a component count of almost double that of the Zenith so does anyone know where all those extra parts are deployed in the JLC movement ???​


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## Sathorael (Dec 22, 2010)

Unfortunitely I don't own either of these watches, they are both beautiful. However, I may have a bit of insight for you. My understanding of the JLC movement is that the "extra parts" are used for the precision of the small seconds. If you look at their base level Master Ultra Thin using cal 849, it has 123 pieces and no small seconds. This is very similar to the Zenith at 128 with a small seconds dial. To me that means that Zenith just put less emphasis on the actual performance of their complications. It's not to say its a bad watch, it's just not functionally equivalent to a Jaeger-LeCoultre. If you have the bank roll for it, get the JLC. It is elegant in it's complexity and minimalism.


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## mparker (Jan 26, 2010)

The Zenith Ulta Thins and the JLC Ultra Thin, Ultra Thin 38, and Grande Ultra Thin are are beautiful and exquisitely crafted. I don't yet own any of them but I do look at them frequently and I expect it's just a matter of time. I do own a modestly large selection of Omega DeVilles though and find that part of the reason Zenith (and other) Ultra Thins do not separate themselves from the pack (for me at least) is that the DeVille series over that last several years has produced thin classic beautifully crafted watches at very attractive prices even though most of their models are not what we would consider "ultra-thin". If I owned Zeniths rather than DeVilles my comment would still apply. Most of the ultra thins from the better makers are similar enough to one another that it's tough to make a bad choice if you want just one dressy thin watch. Now we come to JLC. No ultra thin quite matches up with the JLCs. For years JLC has made movements for many of the other high end manufacturers (Patek, Breguet, etc) and have the well deserved reputation as a "watchmaker's watch". Do not the let the number of parts in a JLC influence you negatively. The clear choice, in my mind, between JLC and Zenith is the JLC.


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## v76 (Dec 29, 2009)

I'd say usually, the lesser number of parts, the more inherently reliable the movement is going to be (given that you have lesser components, the probability of failure decreases). However, this assumes that the underlying design of the movements is identical (or at the least, fairly similar), and this I believe would be faulty. JLC historically has been known as a high-quality ebauche maker, and Zenith has won many timekeeping awards in the past (most first places in chronometry competitions). However, in the recent past I believe JLC has done more to advance movement design than Zenith has ... a fair bit more.

It is however almost impossible to decide if one movement is better than the other. I suspect that the JLC also uses an indirect-drive seconds which makes the parts count that much higher. And, unless you're a real watchmaker (or attended some advanced watchmaking courses, at the least), you will have only your opinion to back which is better.


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## ulackfocus (Oct 17, 2008)

The Zenith is a very good automatic, but there's nothing spectacular about it. That's why you'll see the watches from the Elite series priced fairly close to some of the better ETA powered watches. I'd put it a half notch above a 2892-A2, but there's not much to make the argument that it's better unless you want to play the "in-house" card. 

The JLC has a number of upgrades, including ceramic bearings (for better efficiency and less frequent maintenance) and a variable inertia balance (for a more stable rate). 

A side note to V: Indirect seconds is only for center sweep calibers. A watch with subdial seconds has the hand driven directly by the 4th wheel.


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## hoginelli (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks for the response everyone and please do tell me more about the "indirect seconds" complication ? - what does this mean exactly and how does it make the watch "more accurate" ? - many thanks.


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## hoginelli (Jul 20, 2009)

ulackfocus - I just read your post and that does make sense to me regarding the seconds as I would have thought that all separate seconds would be direct drive although I was thinking that maybe the JLC has an indirect drive to allow the seconds to be in a more balanced position towards the extremity of the dial ? (if you notice the Zenith seconds hand is very close to the centre pinion) ...... anyway assuming that the JLC does not have an indirect seconds drive, why all the extra parts ?


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## Titanos (May 16, 2011)

*Re: Zenith Ultra Thin vs. JLC Ultra Thin*

HOGINELLI: Friend, be a practical man. If you want an ultra thin watch, buy the Zenith and forget the JLC. You ask if the JLC is truly worth TWICE the amount of the Zenith and the answer is Heck No! Maybe the Zenith is +/- 5 sec a day. Maybe the JLC is +/- 3 sec per day. (I'm making up all these numbers.) So what? Who cares about 2 sec a day one way or the other?

Of course, one also needs to think about depreciation and resale value. On both counts the JLC has it over the Zenith, but both are still pretty bad. Swiss watches in general are notoriously bad on these fronts (except maybe Rolex and Patek Philippe).

Here's an even bigger suggestion: If you can't afford to go out and PAY CASH for either of these watches, don't buy either. Don't go into debt for a watch. Yes, I know you want one. I'm a watch freak too; I know exactly how you feel. But also know that a Swiss watch is probably something you don't actually need right now. It's only something you want. Don't put a millstone around your neck for something you merely want.

Again, be a practical man. Pay cash for the Zenith and be happy. It's a really sweet watch (have you seen the one with the Roman Numeral dial??? Stunning.). And just think, with all that extra money you save by NOT buying the JLC, you can fund your Roth IRA or something like that. Seriously. Fund your IRA. 65-year-old-you will be MOST appreciative. 

[This thread is semi-cold as of MAY 2011, but I thought I'd throw in my 2-cent's worth anyway. In fact, I actually joined Watchuseek specifically for this purpose.]

Okay, my soapbox pontification is complete. Carry on -- and be blessed, brother!

Titanos


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## exoticwatches (Feb 2, 2013)

*Re: Zenith Ultra Thin vs. JLC Ultra Thin*

LOL - Semi Cold or Cold I have had to dig this up from the grave and ask - JLC Master Control (Stainless Steel) 40mm vs the Zenith Heritage Elite 40mm with Silver ray dial and diamond studded markers ??

Look forward to honest suggestions and opinions by fellow WUS members

















OR


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## lmcgbaj (Aug 7, 2012)

That diamond Zenith is plain ugly.

This one looks much better.










But I would still take the JLC. It just looks better.


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## seanwontreturn (Aug 9, 2013)

The dial simply forgets me it's a Zenith. 
And JLC is very good at making thin watches.
And dont look at a Zenith that's not a El...
And you cant forget how many JLC lover there are here!
Now the suggestion, check out Piaget pls.


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## Orex (Jul 17, 2012)

v76 said:


> I suspect that the JLC also uses an indirect-drive seconds which makes the parts count that much higher.


The subseconds are always direct driven by the 4th wheel - it make no sense to have them indirect. The additional number of parts are the screws on the balance wheel (the JLC is free sprung with adjustment screws while Zenith has a smooth balance with a regulator) and perhaps some additional gears and screws in the auto power gear train.


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## exoticwatches (Feb 2, 2013)

JLC is definitely superior ... no doubt .. but price wise it is almost double - US$6050 vs Zeniths US$3500 - and I would have gone on the Zenith for just the price point *BUT* that is where my biggest concern lies - I know incase I need to swap or am in urgent need of funds I can swap/sell the JLC easily and get back say anything between US$3500-4500. With the Zenith I am not really sure how much I can get back of the US$3500 ????


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## dantan (Dec 16, 2014)

I have tried that Zenith Captain Ultra Thin watch in Rose Gold, and it is a very beautiful watch. I have also tried the Jaeger LeCoultre Ultra Thin, as per the picture below. Personally, I prefer the Zenith. It fits my wrist more nicely and I like it better, but from a technical point of view, the JLC probably has it.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

Neither watch blows my pant leg up, but I'd be more content with the JLC mainly because it's looks are true to themselves. It's a staid watch that isn't trying to be a watch with flair, but that is staid, or vice versa. I know aesthetic modalities can be successfully blended; however, I don't think that Zenith the OP pictured is a watch wherein that's happened. Perhaps the watch looks better in person, as do most watches. On the basis of the pic alone, it's just not doing it for me.

All the best.


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## dantan (Dec 16, 2014)

The Zenith definitely looks a lot better in person than in the pictures. The JLG is probably the other way around. It still looks really smart, and I have tried it on myself. JLG is a brand I really admire but their Ultra Thin did nothing for me, and is almost twice as expensive as the Zenith.


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

I've owned a Zenith Class Elite hand wound for about four years. It runs at about +3 seconds per 24 hours, is even thinner than the Zenith Ultra Thin due to the absence of a rotor and can stack up against any classic dress watch as far as looks go.

The JLC ultra thin automatic is probably a small step up technologically from the Elite, but from a practical point of view there is likely no difference. Depeciation as percentage of price is similar, but will be for a larger sticker price with the JLC, so larger in dollar terms. I feel that the dial of the Master Control with date is imbalanced due to the absence of the 9. There's not much to find fault with in the Zenith.

Finally, anybody who says that among Zenith's offerings only the El Primero is worth looking at needs to familiarize themselves with the Elite as it's a very competitive movement.


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## michilius (Sep 1, 2014)

It tough to compare these brands. Zenith is a brand that makes expensive watches but has failed to create a reference design language that has stuck, so they tend to change over time and be more trendy. JLCs master control and master ultra thin lines are timeless, iconic, gorgeous, and, as a consequence, will retain their value over time. If you have the money, I'd go with the JLC without question.


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## omeglycine (Jan 21, 2011)

The fit of the caseback is nicer on the Zenith, and more in line with an ultra-thin design. It's a very nice watch at its street price. The Elite movement is also a terrific and proven performer that deserves a lot of respect.

The JLC exhibits superior finishing throughout, though the Zenith is no slouch. The hands are significantly nicer on the JLC.

When I first cross-shopped these two I landed on the Zenith, but ultimately the sub seconds at 9 was something that I didn't take to over time and I ended up selling it. Even though I think the overall case shape on the Zenith works better, I would be more likely to buy the JLC in the future.


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## shartouh (Oct 9, 2013)

hoginelli said:


> I am interested in your thoughts about the Zenith Ultra Thin (cal 681) as compared to the Jaeger LeCoultre Ultra Thin (cal 896) ???? putting the "Master Control" and gold rotor aspects of the JLC movement aside, is the JLC really worth the almost double list price of the Zenith ??? ..... also the JLC has a component count of almost double that of the Zenith so does anyone know where all those extra parts are deployed in the JLC movement ???​


the JLC movement is tested more than 1000 hours. in case 'Watch


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