# Request for Authentication - Vtg Cartier Tank 18k Electroplated "Swiss"



## tang_aria (Oct 9, 2020)

Hi, I'm a bit confused about this watch and hope that someone here who is well informed could help. The seller on eBay has a 100% rating and I made a rookie mistake of being the winning bidder without really taking the time. In retrospect, (at best) I think/hope this could be a frankenwatch Must de Cartier Vermeil. What do you all think?

Item Desc:
"*Cartier 18k gold Electroplated Swiss Made
17 jewels 1601
Manual Winding
Last Service on March/2017"*

Dial: Cursive font looks off to me with the size of the "C" relative to the rest of the letters and the flourish at the end of the "r" looks odd as well. There also isn't the "secret" mark on the numerals or "Swiss", "France", "Paris", etc. Numerals have odd white specks, but I can't tell whether that is just wear. Hands seem consistent with other Cartier 









Crown: I thought was too pointy vs. rounded under the sapphire

Case: No screws that I can see, no symbol marker for the material being gold, no serial number. Engraving looks to be of better quality than some of the fakes I've seen. 









Movement: Usually Must de Vermeils are quartz right? This one is manual wind but isn't labeled with "Cartier" or any of the houses Cartier has been known to have partnered with. 









I asked for the summary/receipt of the servicing the seller mentioned. I'm leaning toward just taking the L and risk getting my account suspended or whatever the consequence is for having an unpaid item case against me.

Thanks for your time!


----------



## creepycrawling (Jul 8, 2017)

Not an expert with Cartier by any stretch but it's definitely strange and even suspect that there's no Cartier or even ebel branding on the movement. It definitely makes me feel like it could be a frankenwatch.

Maybe wait until someone more knowledgeable on the forum replies but I'd personally hold off paying for now.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


----------



## tang_aria (Oct 9, 2020)

Thank you so much!


----------



## Michael Maddan (Aug 17, 2010)

tang_aria...Hello!

Although I do not know this watch, I will say that I'd certainly expect to see Cartier's name on the movement, and, that I'm surprised to see a crystal that appears not to fit the case! To my eye, there are gaps between the crystal and the corners of the case.

So: this watch makes me nervous, and I would not pay 'Market Value' for it.

Michael.


----------



## DaleEArnold (Nov 7, 2008)

Movement SHOULD be Marked somewhere with Cartier. The Shape of your movement would also make suspect..Most Tanks come with Round Mechanical Mvts..Yours may have a replacement NON Cartier Mvt.


----------



## cwcwcw (Jun 9, 2021)

Regarding the crown/stem, while the original was most likely a rounded sapphire, this watch probably had a replacement inserted of one typical of later quartz tanks. I know for a fact they are interchangeable and jeweler most likely acquired part legitimately in the 1990s or 2000s


----------



## jjyyhh (Jun 11, 2021)

Hi, I know this post passed months. The thing is I bought a same same watch like yours. The movement is exact same. Did you have any update or did you know if it's authentic?


----------



## Michael Maddan (Aug 17, 2010)

cwcwcw said:


> Regarding the crown/stem, while the original was most likely a rounded sapphire, this watch probably had a replacement inserted of one typical of later quartz tanks. I know for a fact they are interchangeable and jeweler most likely acquired part legitimately in the 1990s or 2000s


Nice to see an Old Sony Digital camera still in use! I have several, and have always enjoyed them.

Michael.


----------



## ncwatchguy2020 (May 27, 2020)

Did you ever find anything out on this watch? I have the same one with the same movement 1601, but mine is stamped cartier on the movement. 

QUOTE="tang_aria, post: 52484864, member: 1469073"]
Hi, I'm a bit confused about this watch and hope that someone here who is well informed could help. The seller on eBay has a 100% rating and I made a rookie mistake of being the winning bidder without really taking the time. In retrospect, (at best) I think/hope this could be a frankenwatch Must de Cartier Vermeil. What do you all think?

Item Desc:
"*Cartier 18k gold Electroplated Swiss Made
17 jewels 1601
Manual Winding
Last Service on March/2017"*

Dial: Cursive font looks off to me with the size of the "C" relative to the rest of the letters and the flourish at the end of the "r" looks odd as well. There also isn't the "secret" mark on the numerals or "Swiss", "France", "Paris", etc. Numerals have odd white specks, but I can't tell whether that is just wear. Hands seem consistent with other Cartier
View attachment 15492294


Crown: I thought was too pointy vs. rounded under the sapphire

Case: No screws that I can see, no symbol marker for the material being gold, no serial number. Engraving looks to be of better quality than some of the fakes I've seen.
View attachment 15492299


Movement: Usually Must de Vermeils are quartz right? This one is manual[/QUOTE]


----------



## benbenny (Jan 24, 2016)

This watch is a fake reproduction Cartier Tank Pre Must.

It has a Fake case made from a Catena watch.



It has fake movement (movement should be a signed Cartier ETA 2512) and fake crown, fake dial (wrong fond script), but it does maybe have original outsourced hands.

Its pretends to be a Pre Must Cartier Tank which were made before 1976 and were gold plated on base metal.

8 in 10 of these Pre Must Tank watches on the market are fake.! If you want to buy a real Pre Must Cartier Tank than I would recommended the New York boutique reference 15705 with the elongated crown. This was the only reference which could not be faked because of the use of the patented screw back case.

Its because of this 1970s/80s fake watch pandemic that Cartier introduced the new vermeil must de Cartier line which had a screw back case instead a snap back, and they switch to precious silver metal instead of base metal which Catena also used, and they also switched over to off-white dials and discontinued the stark white dials and only issued this for their precious metal Louis Tank models, and in the late 70s early 80s they added the security Cartier writing in the number 7.

The forgers back in the 70s and 80s needed 1 main ingredient to fake these watches. They needed a watch case which looked like the Cartier Tank.

For this they used the watch cases by the brand CATENA. This watch brand produced many models which looked like the Cartier models with very minor differences.

For the Cartier Tank watch they used de Catena De Luxe Tank. They just swapped dials and hands (in many cases they didnt even swap the hands) and than engraved the backcase with Cartier, and viola, a new fake Cartier was born.

Funny fact: because so many of these Catena watch cases were used to fake the Cartier Tank Pre Must model, the Catena Tank models have become rarer than the Cartier Tank Pre Must





Another fake Pre Must Tank wrecently sold on ebay. Made from a Catena Tank watch case. I feel sorry for the person who bought it.

Fake after market printed dial


Fake Cartier engraving on the back case and still has the Catena Logo just under the lettering Swiss


Correct ETA 2512 movement - but wronly signed Cartier. Its just stamped Cartier in ink on the ratchet wheel, Cartier engraved these movements with their brand on the wheel bridge plate.


----------

