# How to spot a fake Russian watch (Raketa, Slava, etc)



## pgillich (Dec 21, 2011)

Hello friends,

Does anyone have any tips they can share on how to detect a fake watch of Russian origin? I'm asking about all types, but most importantly Raketa and Slava brands.

If anyone could please share information, that would be great!


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## schnurrp (May 4, 2011)

A very broad subject indeed. I find the most helpful course of action is to follow this forum and learn from other's inquiries, good buys, and mistakes. When you think you are ready to buy, post it on the forum and get some opinions. It is a rather slow process with no real shortcuts. Patience!


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## aviator3133 (Sep 15, 2011)

I would also add to Schnurrp's advice to have at hand as many different photos of the model you're looking to purchase. Unfortunately some of the manufacturers use whichever parts they could get their hands on at production time, so sometimes hands do change on the same model. So what officially looks a fake or a Franken could equally be a legit model. 

Having photos of not only the front and the case back and movement, but also the buttons, effectively each sides of the watch will also help distinguish if something doesn't quite look right. If something doesn't look right, then this forum is a great help in identifying whether it looks true or not as there is a wealth of knowledge in this forum


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## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

I agree with schnurrp and aviator3133 whole heartedly: connoisseurship comes with time and efforts spent, but in a matter of weeks, you will suddenly find yourself able to look at a watch and see a little green or red light.

However, there are NOS and new examples of both marques turning up now and then (Leon has quite a few Slavas), with correct documents, they should be safe. It pays dividends to see if a newer example, or NOS example, is available for a watch that catches your eye too. Of course the brand new Raketas would have to be totally legit, although it is harder to get hold of one: this is what Raketa decided to do: if they make them available all over eBay then it would naturally attract forgers.

Fake Slavas are still running rampant on eBay, just ignore everything bearing the name "Slava Sozvezdie" and you would screen out the spurious ones very quickly. By looking at their pictures, it would also help with developing your connoisseurship: by familiarising yourself with the "air" of the designs of the known fakes, you will also develop an eye for spotting legitimate designs, even if you have never seen an example before.

A bit of commonsense also helps to screen out spurious Raketas. For example, one featuring WWII German machines of war would make as much sense as a Franklin Mint plate celebrating the Japanese forces in the sinking of the Arizona.

If you are talking about earlier pre-owned examples, then a bit more effort would be required. There are a fair few original catalogue scans available here, and by looking at them you can get an idea of what original ones are like, and which movements are meant to be fitted. But I feel your major concern is getting examples built out of disparate watches - "Frankenwatches" as we say - but a bit of effort in studying will indeed enable you to spot them.

Most importantly, enjoy your journey!


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## wood (Dec 3, 2011)

pgillich!

First of all, welcome to the forum!

It is a watchjungle out there. On this forum there are collectors and enthusiast that are specialist in all kinds of
eras, types, brands, new, old, movements and also general collecting - thats a good start!

When i bay a watch i look at the general design. Are the hands short/long enough fore that brand/watch, are the
case in the same shape as the rest of the watch. Are "lumedots" in same color as the age of the watch, do you really want that
watch.....

The most important thing is to start baying watches from a trustworthy salesman!

wood


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## AAWATCHES (May 2, 2009)

I enjoy the Russian watches and have a few in my collections, but I am by no means a connoisseur. So all these fine suggestions make a lot of sense. The only thing I can add is something you will here a lot on the forums....BUY THE SELLER FIRST


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## schnurrp (May 4, 2011)

Almost forgot a resource that I have used from the beginning and continue to use to this day: Mark Gordon's extensive collection of authentic (or not, he will tell you) vintage watches, catalogued online in an easily searched form.

Welcome to USSR Time!

This is not to slight any of the other online collections but I think Mark's is the most extensive and easily searched. Invaluable to me!


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## pgillich (Dec 21, 2011)

Thank you to all who took the time to reply, I really do appreciate it. I have a strong passion for all things Russian and watches, and I do love browsing and looking at different pictures. indeed, for about a week, I have spent about an hour and a half to two hours researching different watches, and I think I have developed a bit of an eye for catching fakes. Still, though, there is one that bothers me--for example, I found a Slava that looks perfectly legit, except for the fact that nowhere does it say either "made in USSR (in Russian)" or "made in Russia (in russian)". Other examples had that marking, some with different hands, but I have no idea which is the real one.

Anyway, I'll post pics, and I emailed the second moscow watch factory about it and asked them to help me determine the watch's validity;when I get an answer, I'll post it.

Again, thanks for the help,

Peter


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## Keithguy (Dec 27, 2017)

Hi, 
I'm a newbie to the group and don't know much about Russian wristwatches 
I really like this watch can anyone tell me if it's an original it's advertised as 100% original
The seller wants £106 for it
thank you very much


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## schnurrp (May 4, 2011)

Keithguy said:


> Hi,
> I'm a newbie to the group and don't know much about Russian wristwatches
> I really like this watch can anyone tell me if it's an original it's advertised as 100% original
> The seller wants £106 for it
> ...


The picture is rather small and not super sharp but it appears to have a reproduction dial and definitely has the wrong hands. The case looks like it could be authentic but I'm not sure if the black dial, authentic or not, belongs in the gold case.

Anyway, it's not authentic and therefor not worth even a fraction of the asking price, in my opinion.


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## bpmurray (Mar 15, 2017)

Keithguy said:


> Hi,
> I'm a newbie to the group and don't know much about Russian wristwatches
> I really like this watch can anyone tell me if it's an original it's advertised as 100% original
> The seller wants £106 for it
> thank you very much


Not real. The dial is a modern re-make, and all three hands are incorrect.

I'll update later to explain further if no one else chimes in.


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## watch22 (Oct 25, 2008)

bpmurray said:


> Not real. The dial is a modern re-make, and all three hands are incorrect.
> 
> I'll update later to explain further if no one else chimes in.


The crown is wrong too, so all in all, it's a typical eBay Russian watch.


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## Keithguy (Dec 27, 2017)

schnurrp said:


> The picture is rather small and not super sharp but it appears to have a reproduction dial and definitely has the wrong hands. The case looks like it could be authentic but I'm not sure if the black dial, authentic or not, belongs in the gold case.
> 
> Anyway, it's not authentic and therefor not worth even a fraction of the asking price, in my opinion.


Thank you so much so glad I asked


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## Keithguy (Dec 27, 2017)

You guys are great nearly bought a dud thank you all again
where is the best place to buy .


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## phd (Oct 2, 2008)

Regarding the general topic of how to spot fakes - it's easy, and you only have to know one thing: everything 

Beyond that, a few general pointers:

(1) Military and hyper-soviet themes are prime candidates for fakery
(2) Learn the numbering system for Soviet movements (eg, xx09 = basic movement with shock protection; xx14 = with date; xx28 = with day+date; xx23= 24hr movement) to be sure it has at least a plausible movement in it
(3) Look carefully at the dial - even the most basic "real" watches have crisp, sharp printing, not hand painting.
(4) A very clean dial in a beat-up case, or a beat-up dial in a new-looking case, is suspicious
(5) Check that all the main bridges of the movement have a similar finish (eg, all have a bevelled outer edge, or all not) - manufacturer's changed these details often, but one movement should be "all of a piece".
(5) Most important - just stop and look at the watch for a while, and see if it looks right. I've bought frankens which have a clear gap between the dial and the case, or which have other glaring errors, which I somehow didn't notice when I was "over-focussing" on the pictures.


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## bpmurray (Mar 15, 2017)

Keithguy said:


> You guys are great nearly bought a dud thank you all again
> where is the best place to buy .


There really is no "best" place. Ebay and Etsy are the most common, and you can get great items on there, but as you've noticed, caution is required. There are some Russian-language sales sites out there as well (Meshok, Avito, German242) but that's really wading into deep waters.

If you are looking for a First Moscow "Sputnik" like you posted earlier, here is how we could see it was a fake.

1. The modern, fake dials are almost uniformly missing Severnaya Zemlya and the longitude lines don't meet (images shameless stolen from a prior post by mroatman). Real one is on the left:









Second, the hour and minute hands should the shape you see in the above image - sword-shaped. For the white dial variant, they should be gold; for the black dial, they should be nickel plated.

Third, the seconds hand must have Sputnik! And fourth, the crown should be cone-shaped. You can see both in the below image:









Good luck with your search! I agree with comrade phd in his post - do your homework, continue to post things to the forum, and you'll find your watch.


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## watch22 (Oct 25, 2008)

bpmurray said:


> Nevermind.


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## bpmurray (Mar 15, 2017)

watch22 said:


> bpmurray said:
> 
> 
> > Nevermind.
> ...


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## watch22 (Oct 25, 2008)

bpmurray said:


> watch22 said:
> 
> 
> > ¿Que?
> ...


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## shahrincamille (Nov 9, 2017)

bpmurray said:


> There really is no "best" place. Ebay and Etsy are the most common, and you can get great items on there, but as you've noticed, caution is required. There are some Russian-language sales sites out there as well (Meshok, Avito, German242) but that's really wading into deep waters.
> 
> If you are looking for a First Moscow "Sputnik" like you posted earlier, here is how we could see it was a fake.
> 
> ...


AFAIC, if you're looking for a "Sputnik" watch, then it's of utmost importance that the "Sputnik" must be there on the seconds hand, orbiting the globe.

Otherwise, it's not a genuine "Sputnik":-d

Shahrinb-)


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

Some nice pointers from everyone. Just one niggle.



phd said:


> (4) A very clean dial in a beat-up case, or a beat-up dial in a new-looking case, is suspicious


True, either scenario should give buyer pause. But a very clean dial in a beat-up case is far more plausible; i.e. the case served its intended purpose (protecting the insides) and was never opened.

A beat-up dial in a new case, on the other hand, is absolutely not logical or possible without some tampering.


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## schnurrp (May 4, 2011)

mroatman said:


> Some nice pointers from everyone. Just one niggle.
> 
> True, either scenario should give buyer pause. But a very clean dial in a beat-up case is far more plausible; i.e. the case served its intended purpose (protecting the insides) and was never opened.
> 
> A beat-up dial in a new case, on the other hand, is absolutely not logical or possible without some tampering.


Also scratches on the dial. If scratches are located around the center where one may have gotten careless with hands during disassembly for service, that's better than random scratches elsewhere which indicate to me some time away from "home" carelessly stored away and handled before a decision is made to "create" something. This is not foolproof but just one of the many considerations that should be made when a decision is needed.


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## schnurrp (May 4, 2011)

Get familiar with the available soviet watch catalogs!

Over the years this has been the single most important advancement in f10 collecting, in my opinion. When I started catalogs were rarely cited.


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## Keithguy (Dec 27, 2017)

Hi Everyone 
This watch is listed on ebay 1952 Pobeda miniature oil painting 1MCHZ soviet Russian watch £96 l like it but is it original.


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## Neruda (Nov 11, 2014)

I suspect most of these painted dials are modern - but it's difficult to be certain unless the paint's still wet!


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## Straight_time (Dec 15, 2015)

Anyway, if the question is "Is it original _from the factory_?" then the answer is no, none of those hand-painted dials was born that way; and, in all honesty, 96 pounds looks like a true robbery to me... :think:


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## schnurrp (May 4, 2011)

Neruda said:


> I suspect most of these painted dials are modern - but it's difficult to be certain unless the paint's still wet!





Straight_time said:


> Anyway, if the question is "Is it original _from the factory_?" then the answer is no, none of those hand-painted dials was born that way; and, in all honesty, 96 pounds looks like a true robbery to me... :think:


Yes, I would only buy one of these if I liked the subject of the painting and it was very well done and then only at a low price. Most look like they were done in kindergarten; that one has a decent painting but it's not 96 pounds decent, in my opinion.


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## Keithguy (Dec 27, 2017)

Thank you all guys much appreciated


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## Keithguy (Dec 27, 2017)

Hello experts 
I am here again with another Sputnik watch see above. I have taken on board your comments from last time and I think this one is original but I would like your comments please it's on ebay and is priced at £165 I think


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

Keithguy said:


> Hello experts
> I am here again with another Sputnik watch see above. I have taken on board your comments from last time and I think this one is original but I would like your comments please it's on ebay and is priced at £165 I think


Unfortunately, the hands are not correct. According to the 1960 catalog, the hands should be nickel-plated (silver in color) for this model.

In my opinion, the price is also too high, even for an original.


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## Keithguy (Dec 27, 2017)

Thank you very much
does anyone know of an original Sputnik watch (see above image) that is currently for sale on ebay or other seller as I would like to buy one
Much appreciated
Keith


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

Keithguy said:


> Thank you very much
> does anyone know of an original Sputnik watch (see above image) that is currently for sale on ebay or other seller as I would like to buy one
> Much appreciated
> Keith


Good things come to those who ask.

Check your PM


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## Keithguy (Dec 27, 2017)

Hi Dashiell 
thank you but already sold on 20th
keith


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## mroatman (Nov 21, 2014)

Keithguy said:


> Hi Dashiell
> thank you but already sold on 20th
> keith


Same day I sent you the link. I was sure it was you who bought it. Too bad


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## Kotsov (Nov 7, 2018)

Keithguy said:


> Hi,
> I'm a newbie to the group and don't know much about Russian wristwatches
> I really like this watch can anyone tell me if it's an original it's advertised as 100% original
> The seller wants £106 for it
> ...


Tbh that looks a nice watch for the price, if it keeps good time and you are happy with it....

You did the right thing asking. There are people here with almost unlimited knowledge and they are friendly, non judgemental and keen to help.


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## TypeSly (Jan 9, 2018)

There's fake Russian watches?? Bahahahaha!


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

TypeSly said:


> There's fake Russian watches?? Bahahahaha!


I guess you've never visited this forum before? Welcome. And yes, sometimes Russian watches get faked, both within Russia and beyond.


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## Hotel Moscow (Dec 16, 2021)

Hi guys, I'm trying to buy a USSR military watch for a friend's birthday, however there's simply too many options and too many fakes so I wanted to ask for some advice. My price range is up to 100 euros, does anyone have some recommendations ? Could someone also please tell me if the models I'll upload are fake or frankens ? Thank you in advance for the help, really need it.









*Vostok Cardi Capitan 4-Stars, gold plated// rare Model// Military Officer Trech Watch (45 euros)*











*Wristwatch USSR Pobeda SHTURMANSKIE Navigator Aviator Laco, Vintage Soviet Watches 80s,Mechanical watch for mens, 6 months warranty*


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## 979greenwich (Jun 3, 2016)

First one has nothing to do with the military, it's a less desirable line from Vostok. Second one is a franken with a fantasy dial.
If you're looking for a cheap USSR military watch, go with the Komandirskie or Amphibian.


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## Hotel Moscow (Dec 16, 2021)

Do these appear genuine to you ? I see 











*Rare Russian Automatik Watch Wostok Amphibia Komandirskie ,Water proof, Military Watch, Working Men's Wrist Watch, Retro Watch, USSR Army*
€ 88,19











*Men's watch VOSTOK komandirskie Rising Sun 17 jewels Zakaz Mo USSR made in Soviet Union/Collectible watch WOSTOK East Border Chistopol/reloj*
€ 62,29









*WOSTOK Komandirskie 2414A Submarine Vintage WristWatch Vostok USSR Serviced*
€ 69,09









*POBEDA Zim USSR Vintage Watch COMBAT Diver Navy Mechanical Military Russian *
€ 49,69
The original dial was replaced but I was wondering if such a model even existed.










Vostok Komandirskie 2414A. Navy. Vintage Fully Original Soviet Watch. Early 1990s (76 euros)









*Mens Russian VINTAGE WATCH Ussr Vostok komandirskie Commandos - Serviced (Admittedly **this one looks fake as hell but I wanted to make sure since I'm no expert)*
€ 28,31


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## Hotel Moscow (Dec 16, 2021)

979greenwich said:


> First one has nothing to do with the military, it's a less desirable line from Vostok. Second one is a franken with a fantasy dial.
> If you're looking for a cheap USSR military watch, go with the Komandirskie or Amphibian.


Thanks for the save, do you happen to know of any models for sale ?


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## Odessa200 (Apr 12, 2019)

Hotel Moscow said:


> Do these appear genuine to you ? I see
> 
> View attachment 16301734
> 
> ...


All somewhat authentic except the Combat Zim. 
if you want detailed analysis, post one watch at a time and give photos of the back and movement. Frequently the issues are with the movements and backs. From the photos you gave we see some of the watches have relumed hands.


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## Hotel Moscow (Dec 16, 2021)

Odessa200 said:


> All somewhat authentic except the Combat Zim.
> if you want detailed analysis, post one watch at a time and give photos of the back and movement. Frequently the issues are with the movements and backs. From the photos you gave we see some of the watches have relumed hands.


Thanks, I'll probably get one of these then. Does anyone know of any models linked in particular to the Soviet-Afghan war by any chance ?


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## Hotel Moscow (Dec 16, 2021)

Hi experts, does this appear fake to you ?

*Wristwatch USSR POBEDA Pobeda Afghan War Operation STORM-333 Tajbeg 33 mm, Vintage Soviet Watch, Mechanical Watch Unisex, 6 months warranty*
€ 108,40


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## Hotel Moscow (Dec 16, 2021)

Or this one ?
*Orologio da polso URSS POBEDA Aviator SHTURMANSKIE Pilot Laco 33 mm, Orologio Sovietico Vintage anni '80, Orologio Meccanico Uomo*
Prezzo:€ 91,18


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## Odessa200 (Apr 12, 2019)

Hotel Moscow said:


> Hi experts, does this appear fake to you ?
> 
> *Wristwatch USSR POBEDA Pobeda Afghan War Operation STORM-333 Tajbeg 33 mm, Vintage Soviet Watch, Mechanical Watch Unisex, 6 months warranty*
> € 108,40
> ...


Fake


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## Odessa200 (Apr 12, 2019)

Hotel Moscow said:


> Or this one ?
> *Orologio da polso URSS POBEDA Aviator SHTURMANSKIE Pilot Laco 33 mm, Orologio Sovietico Vintage anni '80, Orologio Meccanico Uomo*
> Prezzo:€ 91,18
> View attachment 16312463


Fake


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## Hotel Moscow (Dec 16, 2021)

Hi guys, does this one appear to be a fake or a franken to you ?









*Vostok Amphibia vintage mechanical wrist watch $69.95*


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## Avidfan (Jun 28, 2016)

Hotel Moscow said:


> Hi guys, does this one appear to be a fake or a franken to you ?
> 
> View attachment 16341408
> 
> *Vostok Amphibia vintage mechanical wrist watch $69.95*


It's a Amphibia 470305, looks ok from the front except for the Komandirskie bezel, here's a 1990 catalogue image...


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## mtt-mrk (Jan 4, 2022)

hello i am a newbie looking for experts' eyes

does this looks original and how much would you pay it ? listed as Raketa Multicalendar, approx 50 euro. many thanks in advance! looking forward to gain more knowledge here


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## Odessa200 (Apr 12, 2019)

mtt-mrk said:


> hello i am a newbie looking for experts' eyes
> 
> does this looks original and how much would you pay it ? listed as Raketa Multicalendar, approx 50 euro. many thanks in advance! looking forward to gain more knowledge here
> View attachment 16341527
> ...


looks good to me


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## Hotel Moscow (Dec 16, 2021)

This one looks really cool but I'm afraid it's too good to be true, could you guys tell me if you see anything wrong with it ?

















*Vostok Commander’s mechanical watch – special World War II commemoration edition*
$73.95


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## Chris1956 (Feb 1, 2019)

pgillich said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> Does anyone have any tips they can share on how to detect a fake watch of Russian origin? I'm asking about all types, but most importantly Raketa and Slava brands.
> 
> If anyone could please share information, that would be great!


Is this really a thing? Seems like it makes all the sense of counterfeiting a Walmart t-shirt.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Chris1956 said:


> Is this really a thing? Seems like it makes all the sense of counterfeiting a Walmart t-shirt.


Yes it is a thing. Surely that is evident in this thread.


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## Chris1956 (Feb 1, 2019)

Chascomm said:


> Yes it is a thing. Surely that is evident in this thread.


That's what's referred to colloquially as a "hypothetical question"!


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## Avidfan (Jun 28, 2016)

Hotel Moscow said:


> This one looks really cool but I'm afraid it's too good to be true, could you guys tell me if you see anything wrong with it ?
> 
> View attachment 16352822
> View attachment 16352824
> ...


It has an Amphibia steel crimped crown otherwise it looks ok from the front, this is one of a set of Komandirskie made for the Italian market around 1989-1990 so make sure it's got the correct Time Trend caseback with onion dome logo...

Here's a link to Vostok Amphibia CCCP for another example...(scroll down)


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Chris1956 said:


> That's what's referred to colloquially as a "hypothetical question"!


‘Rhetorical question’. My point is that this is a very common topic of discussion here on the Russian watches forum so it seems odd to say ‘is that a thing?’ when it so obviously is.


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## Chris1956 (Feb 1, 2019)

Chascomm said:


> ‘Rhetorical question’. My point is that this is a very common topic of discussion here on the Russian watches forum so it seems odd to say ‘is that a thing?’ when it so obviously is.


And a happy new year to you, sir!


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## Hotel Moscow (Dec 16, 2021)

Avidfan said:


> It has an Amphibia steel crimped crown otherwise it looks ok from the front, this is one of a set of Komandirskie made for the Italian market around 1989-1990 so make sure it's got the correct Time Trend caseback with onion dome logo...
> 
> Here's a link to Vostok Amphibia CCCP for another example...(scroll down)


Thanks, it seems like it, that the one ?


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## Avidfan (Jun 28, 2016)

Hotel Moscow said:


> Thanks, it seems like it, that the one ?
> View attachment 16357471


Yep, the Time Trend logo...


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## Pablo Kickasso (12 mo ago)

Hi everyone, 

I must say I love most Soviet watch designs, there is just something unique about their simplicity, robustness, sheer functionality and overall original design, they just "tell a story" so to say. 

So, to some extent, even if prices have picked up quite a bit on these items lately, I think they are still worth the asking price most of the time, and this includes some "fake"/frankens in my humble opinions. 
Now let me tell why I think so:


First of all it depends on what you are looking for. For people looking for the historical value of these pieces, they obviously look for items with 100% original parts, and that's understandable and legit.

However, you must ask yourself why you're hunting for these watches. I mean in my case I love the design, quality and overall look. Thus, I'm good with the fact that the watch I'm buying is not 100% historically accurate.

To me it is crucial here to distinguish a franken from a fake. A fake would typically use some el cheapo movement not even remotely connected to Russian watchmaking, feature a fantasy dial and/or poor quality reproduction/restoration.

Now, I'd rather buy a pristine reproduction with a somewhat/remotely period correct movement rather than a beaten up historical piece because in the end I'm not after the historical value of the particular watch I'm buying.

Here is an example of what I mean: 

















I love the look of the original Sputnik Pobeda. Now this one may not have the right case, the right crown shape or even the right movement. The dial may be a reproduction, but then, when I look at the overall product, it looks like a spanking new Sputnik , I think it's gorgeous and for this kind of quality, the pricing most franken sellers ask is still worth it I think.

I'm by no mean a connaisseur, but then again what are you looking for? A museum piece? If so, sure the frankens are not worth it but if you want a quality watch based on historical soviet pieces, then I think they are great item, resale value be damned.

I'm not discussing the fantasy dials here, but rather those based on original designs. Heck even to some extent fantasy dials based on nothing historical can be worth if the quality is here and the design floats your boat. 

Maybe a russian watch expert will tell me all the parts in my above example are made in mainland China, but to me the quality looks legit made from restored original parts so I would not call them a scam or even a fake.

Sorry for the long post, just my 2 cents.


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## Odessa200 (Apr 12, 2019)

Pablo Kickasso said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I must say I love most Soviet watch designs, there is just something unique about their simplicity, robustness, sheer functionality and overall original design, they just "tell a story" so to say.
> 
> ...


Welcome friend. This is perfectly fine to buy these reproductions if you do this knowingly and willingly. What bugs me is when the sellers take advantage of naive buyers. If they would list such Sputnik, for example, as a ‘reproduction’, ‘homage’, ‘made in 2020’ so EVERYONE can clearly see what he is buying I would be super happy. But instead, a watch like this, would be listed as ‘original and authentic’, ‘made in USSR’, ‘made in 1960-9’, etc, etc. Would you like your supermarket or a pharmacy to label their products with such liberties? How about card dealers: ‘this is a genuine Mercedes…’  And they keep investing more and more tricks like ‘new authentic dial’. When I ask what exactly this means the seller said ‘it is an authentic dial. It is not a counterfeit of a new dial. This dial was made in China by a watch factory and not in some basement so it is real and authentic’. Great. Right? So in Summary, if a product is clearly labeled as ‘made in China’ and as a ‘Homage’ I am all for it!


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## Pablo Kickasso (12 mo ago)

Odessa200 said:


> Welcome friend. This is perfectly fine to buy these reproductions if you do this knowingly and willingly. What bugs me is when the sellers take advantage of naive buyers. If they would list such Sputnik, for example, as a ‘reproduction’, ‘homage’, ‘made in 2020’ so EVERYONE can clearly see what he is buying I would be super happy. But instead, a watch like this, would be listed as ‘original and authentic’, ‘made in USSR’, ‘made in 1960-9’, etc, etc. Would you like your supermarket or a pharmacy to label their products with such liberties? How about card dealers: ‘this is a genuine Mercedes…’  And they keep investing more and more tricks like ‘new authentic dial’. When I ask what exactly this means the seller said ‘it is an authentic dial. It is not a counterfeit of a new dial. This dial was made in China by a watch factory and not in some basement so it is real and authentic’. Great. Right? So in Summary, if a product is clearly labeled as ‘made in China’ and as a ‘Homage’ I am all for it!


I couldn't agree more, the whole marketing behind it is all fake, no doubt.
Now regarding the sellers, I noticed they are almmost all based in Ukraine for some weird reason (while I would have naturally thought Russia would be the main selling country).

I thought the repro/restorations were made from cobbled together old movement parts or new parts made locally (i.e. Ukraine /Russia) but maybe I'm too naive here and it ends up being all China again?


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Pablo Kickasso said:


> I couldn't agree more, the whole marketing behind it is all fake, no doubt.
> Now regarding the sellers, I noticed they are almmost all based in Ukraine for some weird reason (while I would have naturally thought Russia would be the main selling country).
> 
> I thought the repro/restorations were made from cobbled together old movement parts or new parts made locally (i.e. Ukraine /Russia) but maybe I'm too naive here and it ends up being all China again?


No you got it right. Select parts may be sourced from China but the core of such watches are Soviet parts and the creative assembly occurs in the former Soviet states, particularly Ukraine.


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## prdrpos (12 mo ago)

Pablo Kickasso said:


> I couldn't agree more, the whole marketing behind it is all fake, no doubt.
> Now regarding the sellers, I noticed they are almmost all based in Ukraine for some weird reason (while I would have naturally thought Russia would be the main selling country).
> 
> I thought the repro/restorations were made from cobbled together old movement parts or new parts made locally (i.e. Ukraine /Russia) but maybe I'm too naive here and it ends up being all China again?


Ukraine is a poor occupied country, here people are ready to sell items of the former USSR for next to nothing, and those who sell them on ebay are by no means Ukrainians, but foreign merchants who buy antiques in Ukraine and resell them on ebay.


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## prdrpos (12 mo ago)

Chascomm said:


> No you got it right. Select parts may be sourced from China but the core of such watches are Soviet parts and the creative assembly occurs in the former Soviet states, particularly Ukraine.


Why such sacrifices? Quartz MIYOTA MOVEMENT - in any body is placed.


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## prdrpos (12 mo ago)

Hotel Moscow said:


> Thanks, I'll probably get one of these then. Does anyone know of any models linked in particular to the Soviet-Afghan war by any chance ?











Vostok Desert Shield: The Ultimate Reference Guide


The Desert Shield by Vostok is a unique watch. First of all, a Soviet watch sporting an American flag is rather unusual. Even shocking, I would say. At the time this watch was made, the




vintagewatchinc.com


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## mtt-mrk (Jan 4, 2022)

Seen other raketa sturmanskie but never with this font. 100% fake reprint or might it have existed? Thanks


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## Odessa200 (Apr 12, 2019)

mtt-mrk said:


> View attachment 16747968
> 
> Seen other raketa sturmanskie but never with this font. 100% fake reprint or might it have existed? Thanks


I think ‘Okean’ and ‘Komandirskie’ are missing from the dial. Fake.


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## mtt-mrk (Jan 4, 2022)

Big Zero ,sold as NOS. Can't understand if dials are printed or applied .the back of the case looks suspiciously new, maybe not original either?. I've asked pics of the movement but with these pics would you risk it? Thanks !


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## Odessa200 (Apr 12, 2019)

mtt-mrk said:


> Big Zero ,sold as NOS. Can't understand if dials are printed or applied .the back of the case looks suspiciously new, maybe not original either?. I've asked pics of the movement but with these pics would you risk it? Thanks !
> View attachment 16809683
> 
> View attachment 16809682
> ...


Looks authentic to me.


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## mtt-mrk (Jan 4, 2022)

I have checked all catalogues on Retro catalogue – Ракета (World) but cannot see it ..

Case seems similar to Big Zero - total fake invention or real? Thanks!


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## 979greenwich (Jun 3, 2016)

Something in between. See here:








Unique Soviet Watches In The Italian Market: Raketa


In our first instalment, we talked in general terms about special Soviet designs for the Italian market. In this post, I want to talk about the role played by Raketa in this market. As you may well…




www.safonagastrocrono.club


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## mtt-mrk (Jan 4, 2022)

979greenwich said:


> Something in between. See here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


very interesting story, thanks for sharing!


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## CPT_Fartacus (4 mo ago)

"Hi, I was wondering if you could help determine if this was a fake Raketa? I am very new to Soviet watches but am keen to learn more.


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## Odessa200 (Apr 12, 2019)

CPT_Fartacus said:


> "Hi, I was wondering if you could help determine if this was a fake Raketa? I am very new to Soviet watches but am keen to learn more.
> View attachment 16896119
> 
> View attachment 16896118
> ...


Welcome. This looks just fine. Maybe the crown is replaced (I am surprised to see the pointy center) but this is a very minor issue even if replaced.


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## CPT_Fartacus (4 mo ago)

Odessa200 said:


> Welcome. This looks just fine. Maybe the crown is replaced (I am surprised to see the pointy center) but this is a very minor issue even if replaced.
> View attachment 16896156


Thanks, Mate. I only just discovered Soviet watches and man they are beautiful. The concept designs are very interesting.


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## daswatch (Sep 26, 2021)

Has anyone ordered from Ukraine lately? How are the delivery times?


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## Odessa200 (Apr 12, 2019)

daswatch said:


> Has anyone ordered from Ukraine lately? How are the delivery times?


Surprisingly no issues. delivery times are quite bad but this is nothing new: it was always about 5-6 weeks for me.


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## daswatch (Sep 26, 2021)

Odessa200 said:


> Surprisingly no issues. delivery times are quite bad but this is nothing new: it was always about 5-6 weeks for me.


Thanks!


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## palletwheel (May 15, 2019)

daswatch said:


> Has anyone ordered from Ukraine lately? How are the delivery times?


Depends. Note nothing flies out directly, it has to go by road to a neighboring country and then flies from there. If the seller has an arrangement with a shipping company they will truck it themselves and then it can go FedEx from there. That's pretty quick, only constraint is how long it takes the shipper to fill a truck to make the trip worthwhile. Typically I find the whole thing takes about 2 weeks this way. It costs a bit more, but I currently prefer it to UkrPoshta, which seems to work, but takes a lot longer.


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