# Secondary Market Pricing



## alittle

I've been in the market for an 1815 U/D for a month or so and I'm finding the secondary market pricing rather baffling. 

This watch in particular seems to come up in the $22-23K and generally disappears in a week or two. 

Now, I've heard reports of sourcing direct from an AD for $20.5K and the watch can be sourced out of the grey market in London (as well as Russia and Hong Kong) for roughly $18K. 

What gives?


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## Watchbreath

Cost of doing business in the "secondary market" varies by location and exchange rates.


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## CFR

What's the reference number (xxx.xxx) of the watch you're trying to buy, if you don't mind sharing?


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## alittle

234.026


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## UnfortunateDateWindow

If an AD sold this ~$29k MSRP watch for $20.5k, I want to meet this AD for my future purchases!


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## TJMike

UnfortunateDateWindow said:


> If an AD sold this ~$29k MSRP watch for $20.5k, I want to meet this AD for my future purchases!


It is possible if you are a VIP customer. For the rest of us who may buy one or two Langes over a number of years, such a discount is just one of dreams.


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## TJMike

Also who are these grey market dealers selling it for $18,000? 

I have never seen a new Up/Down priced that low.


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## alittle

London - https://watchesofmayfair.com/
Russia - ×àñû A.LANGE AND SOHNE 1815 1815 Up Down 39mm Mens Watch 234.026
Italy - A. Lange & SÖhne Saxonia 1815 Up/down 234.026
HK - A. Lange & Söhne 234.026 1815 Up Down White Gold 39mm for $18,372 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24


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## Watchbreath

Have seen more effort by some GM types into making there're websites look great than having any kind of stock.


TJMike said:


> Also who are these grey market dealers selling it for $18,000?
> 
> I have never seen a new Up/Down priced that low.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJMike

alittle said:


> London - https://watchesofmayfair.com/
> Russia - ×àñû A.LANGE AND SOHNE 1815 1815 Up Down 39mm Mens Watch 234.026
> Italy - A. Lange & SÖhne Saxonia 1815 Up/down 234.026
> HK - A. Lange & Söhne 234.026 1815 Up Down White Gold 39mm for $18,372 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24


I stand corrected. However, I would not trust any of the places you listed. The proverbial red flag was going off when I looked at their websites. That may just be my cautious nature or ...

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## TJMike

Watchbreath said:


> Have seen more effort by some GM types into making there're websites look great than having any kind of stock.


So the website looks great with very attractive prices, the customer places an order, and then the customer may well have a long wait for the watch to arrive. Or something like that.

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## alittle

I only communicated with Watches of Mayfair, but they seemed to be pretty up front about what they had in stock and how long it would take to get what they didn't. The others, I don't have any experience whatsoever with; they just came up in my searches. 

I understand the merits of buying a new watch from an AD vs. buying grey market, but when I see a used watch that is almost out of warranty go for 4-5K more than a new watch from the grey market, I scratch my head a little.


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## TJMike

alittle said:


> I only communicated with Watches of Mayfair, but they seemed to be pretty up front about what they had in stock and how long it would take to get what they didn't. The others, I don't have any experience whatsoever with; they just came up in my searches.
> 
> I understand the merits of buying a new watch from an AD vs. buying grey market, but when I see a used watch that is almost out of warranty go for 4-5K more than a new watch from the grey market, I scratch my head a little.


When almost all grey market sources sell the Up/Down for around 20% off one should be very careful about the outliners offering huge discounts.

As I said, I would not trust them.

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## phunky_monkey

Grey market also usually misses out on the factory warranty, which is reasonably important factor to a lot of high end purchasers'.


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## CFR

I've bought Langes from various gray-market and authorized dealers over the years. There are lots of reputable gray-market dealers, but you really do need to do your homework. I'd never buy long-distance from a gray-market dealer unless they've been around for a long time and I knew (from various Lange forums, etc.) other collectors who previously bought from them. This is especially true if the dealer is in another country (I'm in the US) because then you have to deal with Customs, etc. I sure wouldn't wire money to a gray-market dealer unless I personally corresponded with a known prior customer (someone who posts regularly on the forums, etc.) who had done past business with that dealer or who was in that dealer's country and could check them out for me. Of course, it's another story if you can do a face-to-face deal.

Also, on another forum, I recently read a thread about how meaningless "Trusted Seller" status is on Chrono24.

One thing to keep in mind with gray-market dealers is that you're probably on your own if there's a problem. For example, years ago I bought a Langematik Perpetual from a gray-market dealer, and it came with the wrong color watch winder. The dealer refused to swap it for the correct one -- "I deliver items just as I receive them" is what he told me. Even if you get the original Lange warranty with the watch, the gray-market dealer still has no direct relationship with Lange, for whatever that's worth.

But if you're looking for a standard-production 1815 Up/Down, and if you're really trying to save money, why not look at buying one preowned (or buying one of the older models, if the size and aesthetic are okay with you)? Just something to consider.


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## Mike Smith

Chrono24 Trusted seller is the worst. I bought a watch, sent the bank wire. The seller backed out and returned my money, but I was out the wire transfer fee, and Chrono24 did nothing.



CFR said:


> I've bought Langes from various gray-market and authorized dealers over the years. There are lots of reputable gray-market dealers, but you really do need to do your homework. I'd never buy long-distance from a gray-market dealer unless they've been around for a long time and I knew (from various Lange forums, etc.) other collectors who previously bought from them. This is especially true if the dealer is in another country (I'm in the US) because then you have to deal with Customs, etc. I sure wouldn't wire money to a gray-market dealer unless I personally corresponded with a known prior customer (someone who posts regularly on the forums, etc.) who had done past business with that dealer or who was in that dealer's country and could check them out for me. Of course, it's another story if you can do a face-to-face deal.
> 
> Also, on another forum, I recently read a thread about how meaningless "Trusted Seller" status is on Chrono24.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind with gray-market dealers is that you're probably on your own if there's a problem. For example, years ago I bought a Langematik Perpetual from a gray-market dealer, and it came with the wrong color watch winder. The dealer refused to swap it for the correct one -- "I deliver items just as I receive them" is what he told me. Even if you get the original Lange warranty with the watch, the gray-market dealer still has no direct relationship with Lange, for whatever that's worth.
> 
> But if you're looking for a standard-production 1815 Up/Down, and if you're really trying to save money, why not look at buying one preowned (or buying one of the older models, if the size and aesthetic are okay with you)? Just something to consider.


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## handsoverfist

On this, is there any 'blacklist' of sorts if you buy a Lange greymarket? 

I know there's no warranty when purchasing from greymarket, but say, down the track, you send the watch to Lange to be serviced.. Is there any repercussions that could arise when they realise it was sold without warranty/unaccounted for in their system as to through what retailer? Can they track serials? I've always been curious with the high-end, low production makers like Lange how that works.


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## Babka

Dreamy prices. But with Chrono24, they've started implementing star ratings for various parts of the transactions between sellers and buyers and so it will now be easier to weed out shady people. It's becoming a small scale eBay for watches.


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## CFR

Not sure where you got the info that "there's no warranty when purchasing from the grey market." That's incorrect, and there's no "blacklist" either. Lange's factory warranty travels with the watch regardless of where you buy it -- from an AD, gray D, a private seller, etc. The warranty is 2 years, though if you buy it from a boutique, it's 3 years. The warranty just needs to be properly stamped and dated. And if you're going to buy preowned (especially one with no box or papers), it's best to check with Lange first, to make sure the watch wasn't reported stolen.

About a decade ago, Lange (briefly) tried to implement a policy in the US that required the customer to present a purchase receipt from an AD, in addition to the warranty paperwork, when sending a watch for warranty service. That policy lasted about a week.

I think Lange is more interested in going after ADs who sell to the gray market than they are in going after customers.


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## gretch6364

This is a rather popular model, especially the current version is the larger size. I have been watching prices as well, and they are starting to come down into the $18K range. Just took a little time.


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## MrBlahBlah

I would recommend checking out European watch company located in Boston (they have a website and will ship). I would not shy away from pre owned either. If you are open to other metals that will help broaden your search. I used to be a white metal only type of guy but the rose gold 1815 U/D is stunning. You really need to see these in person and try on. 


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## Jomilen

I bought my Lange from Watches of Mayfair about a year ago. They were only online back then and I just followed their TrustPilot many positive reviews 
Delivery to Germany was 2 days. 
Now they opened shop in Mayfair, London. Check their website. This is one of the most luxurious street place in London. 
When I was asking why it is so cheap they explained that average margin of authorised retailers is about 30-50% but they cannot discount it more than 5-10% officially.


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## wintershade

I love it... some rando with 1 post shows up to vouch for Watches of Mayfair. I considered buying a watch from you recently. I was impressed by the prompt email responses. But decided I'd rather go with an AD offering a reasonable discount, just to play it safe. After seeing this post, I'm confident that may be one of the best decisions I've made in a while!


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## wintershade

MrBlahBlah said:


> I would recommend checking out European watch company located in Boston (they have a website and will ship). I would not shy away from pre owned either. If you are open to other metals that will help broaden your search. I used to be a white metal only type of guy but the rose gold 1815 U/D is stunning. You really need to see these in person and try on.


+1 for European Watch Company. While I haven't purchased a watch from them, I've visited their boutique on Newberry a couple times while visiting family in the Boston area. The people working there REALLY know their stuff. Their prices aren't the cheapest, but they're reasonable. They have 1815s quite regularly, and if you're patient, my guess is they'll eventually have the exact one you want, eventually. I've got a pre-owned Zeitwerk on my "watchlist" for Lange #2.


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## jsg1976

wintershade said:


> +1 for European Watch Company. While I haven't purchased a watch from them, I've visited their boutique on Newberry a couple times while visiting family in the Boston area. The people working there REALLY know their stuff. Their prices aren't the cheapest, but they're reasonable. They have 1815s quite regularly, and if you're patient, my guess is they'll eventually have the exact one you want, eventually. I've got a pre-owned Zeitwerk on my "watchlist" for Lange #2.


Another +1 for European Watch Co. In addition to the great service, good value on trades as well. Great (but dangerous) app too!

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## CFR

I'm local to European Watch Co. and frequently visit there. Over the years, I've checked out their Langes upon the request of more distant folks who wanted someone local to eyeball condition/box/papers in person before they pull the trigger. In my experience, EWC does a good job honestly and accurately describing the condition of what they sell, and they stand behind it. It's why they established a large base of repeat customers. I'm pretty amazed at how brisk their business is -- fast product turnover.


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