# Damasko and Authorized Dealer Experience, Refund Policy, Seeking Truth



## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

I purchased a DA363(bracelet) and a DK11(bracelet with 5-55 bezel) from an authorized dealer The Watch Boutique in Bahrain. The seller/owner that sold me the watches is Asrar Merchant. He's a member here and has great reviews. The communication and the transaction went great. I eagerly waited for the watches to arrive. They did arrive and this is what happened.

Both the DK11 and the DA363 had to be ordered as he did not have them in stock. (Although his website clearly stated they were both in stock). I received the DA363 first as promised and it was an absolute stunner. However upon inspection I noticed that both solid end links had a very faint marks on them. Could only be seen at certain angles. The best way to describe it is it look like metal to metal contact. In addition to this, one of the links on the ice hardened bracelet was discolored with slight abrasion. It was a darker shade than the rest of the links. Unfortunately it happened to the first link after the solid end link. I read in the manual "Please note that the screws of the first link after the casing cannot be removed." This means that the solid end link would need to be replaced which has the first set of links already attached. My plan was to replace the discolored link with a spare link but unfortunately the affected link is attached to the end link and could not be removed. I was ok with the light marks on the solid end links but I was not ok with the discolored link. I informed Asrar about this and he apologized for the imperfection escaping his quality control. He informed me Damasko will send him another solid end link in which he would ship to me. But there are more issues with this bracelet in which I will mention a bit later.

*Mark on solid end link*








*Discolored link*














16 days later Asrar informs me that he has the DK11 in his possession and informs me that he had tested everything including the bracelet and all is perfect. I was relieved and excited.

4 days after receiving the great news I took delivery of the DK11. What a beautiful watch but the imperfection continues. I quickly accessed the bracelet and discovered the exact same findings on both solid end links that was on the DA363. Faint marks on the end links and were more prominent than the DA363. This was not good. As I looked at the solid end links more closely, both did not have a tight fit to the casing. Both did not fit snugly the case. The solid end link at the 6 oclock position had so much play that you could see a gap between the end link and casing. The attachment of the solid end link to case on the DA363 was rock solid. Could not even budge it. (here is a link to a member that had the same problem on a different model. https://www.watchuseek.com/f810/so-i-bought-damasko-bracelet-2293250-5.html). More issues. Upon inspection I found 2 white specks on the black bezel at the 57 and 44 markings. You can see it with your naked eye. I was not sure if it was excessive white paint or if its actually a scratch on the Damest coating. I gently wiped it with a microfiber towel but it did not wipe away. I then used my loupe to inspect the dial and discovered a piece of lint near the middle of the dial. When I removed my loupe I could actually see it with my naked eye at certain angles. Its more visible when the black hour or minute hand is right below it to add contrast. This final problem really got me worried about Damasko's quality control. I noticed a piece of metal protruding from the parts that holds down the rotor??!!

*Mark on solid end links*














*Loose end link to case fit*
































*White specks on bezel*




















*Lint *














*Rotor*














On the same day I took delivery of the DK11 I noticed a new problem with the DA363 bracelet. One of the hinges(12 o'clock side) on the butterfly claps became very stiff. I couldn't close the clasp without applying force. It does not dangle freely. In matter of fact the stiff hinge could support the weight of the watch as you can see in the pictures.

*Stiff hinge*




















I quickly informed Asrar of the DK11's problems and the new DA363 bracelet problem. Now that I have two watches with multiple problems he asked me to mail them both back to him and that he would get me new top quality and issue free watches. He apologized for letting me down twice. As I immediately prep the watches for their return I noticed yet another problem with the bracelet on the DA363. This time a set of links on the 6 o'clock side became very stiff as well. Much force was needed to straighten them out as it no longer flowed freely.

*Stiff links*




















I immediately sent both watches back to him. At this point I didnt want new watches nor wanted them repaired. I received 2 watches with multiple problems and I was not very confident in Damasko's quality control. Usually I have a tolerance towards minor issues like the light markings on the end links on the DA363 but the issues with these watches are too prominent that I can not ignore. I also feel the stiffening bracelet and hinges may be a continued problem after repair. I understand things could go wrong however I dont understand the oversight by Damasko in delivering products with obvious imperfections detectable by the naked eye. I could only imagine the oversight and imperfections inside the movement. In both cases I am left with the confidence that there will be more problems in the future beyond their warranty. I am also not confident with Asrar sending me the DA363 with a discolored link that stuck out like a sore thumb. After this, I thought he would meticulously inspect the DK11 before sending it to me. The lint in the dial, the white specks on the bezel, the faint lines on the solid end links, the loose fitting end links to case and the metal part sticking out from the rotor assembly shoudlve all been detected with visual inspection. Due to this I politely asked Asrar for a refund.

He received the watches and he confirmed all of my findings were true for both watches however he could not see the metal part coming out of the rotor assembly. This is what he said concerning my refund throughout our communication.

1. He said that he could not give me a refund unless it is authorized by Damasko. 
2. He would express my concerns to Damasko and push for them to authorize him to give me a refund. 
3. He said once I buy the watches they are my property. When they dont work or have issues it has to be sent back to Damasko for review and they will provide a solution or a decision on sending new watches or refund. Dealer does not have the right to issue refund without confirmations from Damasko.
4. I pushed harder for a refund and he said he is lacking funds right now and would need to get a refund from Damasko to get the refund back to me. ??
5. He said he could not issue a refund on specially ordered or rather non stocked items and would need consent from Damasko for refund. He can only give refunds on stocked pieces without Damaskos consent.

I was taken aback about the information he had given me about his/Damasko return policy. So naturally I emailed Damasko about it. Specifically Isabella. I told her I purchased 2 watches from an Authorized Dealer and they were imperfect. I sent them back to the AD and asked for a refund . I just simply asked her if an Authorized Dealer needed Damasko's consent to give a refund. She replied that if I would like the watches repaired they dont do a refund initially. They have up to 3 attempts to repair the same matter.(I think in this case if the watch had been worn and is still under warranty and if they cant fix the problem after 3 attempts then they would refund) She also said if I would like to have my money back I have 14 days time to return it and it has to be unworn. She said my concessionaire is always responsible for me and since Asrar sold me the watch only he can decide what to do. She also sent me a copy of their General Terms. I quote.

*"III. Revocation right and revocation instruction

(1) Revocation right

Revocation right

You have got the right to revoke this contract within fourteen days without providing reasons. The revocation period is fourteen days, starting with the day on which you or a third party appointed by you that is not the carrier of the goods have (has) taken possession of the goods (or the last part of the goods, the partial delivery or piece, in the case of a contract concerning several goods of a common order or concerning the delivery of goods in several partial deliveries or pieces)."*

My thoughts on this is that Asrar has the right to refund me if he chooses. The right to refund is with the dealer and not the manufacturer. If I were to buy directly from Damasko they would honor a 14 day return policy without providing reason so why cant Asrar do the same?

I told Asrar what Isabella told me but he said that my understanding of what Isabella said is flawed. He has no idea as to why Isabella would tell me that when they clearly told him they dont refund and will repair the watches 3 times before they discuss a refund. But on the other hand he said he can give refunds on stocked pieces only? Something doesn't make sense.

I shipped him both watches on 9/6 and he received them. On 9/26 he sent me the Fedex tracking number which constantly says "Shipping label has been created. The status will be updated when shipment begins to travel." (dated 9/23) He said he would inform me of every step. On 10/5 he informs me that the packages have been cleared by customs and that Damasko should have it by the end of the week.

Fast forward to 10/24. He did not keep me updated with what Damasko did with the watches nor did he confirm when Damasko actually got the watches. He just said Damasko wont do a refund and they have up to 3 times to repair the watches and beyond that a refund will be discussed. He said Damasko have solved all my concerns with the watches and they have shipped it back to him. He said once he receives them he will inspect and send them to me. He also said that he is willing to give me store credit and would waive the restocking fee if I do not want the Damasko's.

At this point I am not getting and refund. I would like to ask if anyone can confirm the policy that Authorized Dealers needs Damasko's permission to give refunds? Also can anyone confirm if Damasko's repair policy up to 3 times applies to unworn watches under warranty or does it apply to brand new unworn watches? I dont see how this can apply to brand new unworn watches when Damasko offers 14 day returns as per Isabella and Damaskos General Terms. I am just seeking the truth here. If there is any validity in what Asrar is telling me then I will accept my misfortune and move on. But what do I do if hes not telling the truth? Do I have a case here?

I emailed Isabella to confirm if 3 times repair policy applies to worn watches under warranty or unworn watches but I have not heard a reply yet. I also contacted Janine about my situation and she replied that she will let her CEO know and get back to me. She never replied until I sent her a second email asking what her CEO said she replied, "I am kindly asking you to contact Mr. Asrar from the Watchboutique regarding this matter." Huh? That was not helpful. I also emailed Nadja. She simply never replied. That's my experience with Damasko's customer service. Seems like their customer service is a hit or miss.

A hard lesson learned. I should have purchased from an Authorized dealer in the US. I am sure they believe dealer issues the refund and not the manufacturer.

I appreciate any suggestions or advice that you guys could provide.

Thank you.


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## Luke* (May 31, 2011)

Not good!!!hope you get them back the way they should be,good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

You'll probably get them back in desired condition, hopefully that will make you glad you kept them.

Regarding the bracelet, I was one of the first buyers of a damasko on bracelet and from your observations I concur about:
- slight marks on the end links. Well perhaps my slight marks have developed over time because of rubbing against other links. You will eventually notice small shiny specks appearing on the bracelet because of this.

I- also experience stiffer links, but that started to happen only after several months.


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## Time On My Hands (Apr 28, 2014)

That's an eye-opening tale. 

This might come down to consumer protection and rights for Bahrain. For example, where I live, sellers' goods must be of merchantable quality and carry a minimum 12 month warranty. In the event of defects (such as your watches) the buyer chooses a replacement, repair or refund. It is solely between the buyer and the seller, not the manufacturer. Sellers and manufacturers can have their own arrangement. Often sellers need this info pointed out to them - sometimes it's deception, sometimes it's just ignorance of the law.


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## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

Needs approval from the manufacturer to refund _their own_ customer, good one. Not having the money to refund, imminent collapse.


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## sulpher (Nov 3, 2013)

D7002470 said:


> A hard lesson learned. I should have purchased from an Authorized dealer in the US.


Exactly this.


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## noregrets (Nov 21, 2014)

I am sorry to hear about your experience, OP. 

For what it's worth, I just took delivery yesterday of a custom DC 67 SI that I ordered through Asrar, and I couldn't be happier. It was a complex order with many customizations including an engraving. He worked very closely with me to ensure that the piece was exactly what I wanted, including having Damasko redo the engraving when it did not meet his standards. 

I was overall very impressed with my experience with him and am delighted with the watch. Asrar was responsive and a gentleman throughout. I know that this does not help the OP but I felt the need to speak up to share my experience with this relatively new dealer given that my experience was very different from the one portrayed by the OP. I was so pleased with the experience in fact that I have already placed an additional Damasko order through him. 

As a side note, under close examination I do see several barely visible discolorations on the end links but I can't imagine being bothered by them. I assume it is a legacy of the ice hardening process. This is my second Damasko and overall I am blown away by the quality and value.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

Bummer. Hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction. Good luck.


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## sulpher (Nov 3, 2013)

noregrets said:


> It was a complex order with many customizations including an engraving.


And no pictures for the forum?


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## noregrets (Nov 21, 2014)

sulpher said:


> And no pictures for the forum?


Haha, not yet brother, but soon. Long week. Don't worry, you'll be seeing a lot of her.


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## Chris Stark (Sep 21, 2015)

This is a doubly sad story and I hope you get satisfaction. Was there a particular reason you did not deal with a US authorized dealer since you live in the states?

With regard to the bracelet, you will find other links here also complaining its stiffness.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Chris Stark said:


> This is a doubly sad story and I hope you get satisfaction. Was there a particular reason you did not deal with a US authorized dealer since you live in the states?
> 
> With regard to the bracelet, you will find other links here also complaining its stiffness.


My guess, it was the price. A DA46 on bracelet is 675 Bahraini Dinars at Watch Boutique. That's $1790 US.
I just paid $2K for my DA46 on bracelet and would never consider importing to get around the US AD - between shipping and import duties, I don't need the headache.
Sometimes there are more important things than saving a few bucks, especially on a luxury item like a Damasko.


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## watchmego3000 (Jul 12, 2012)

What a bummer! In the bright side, you really know your way around a camera. Nice pics (unfortunate subjects).


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## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

whineboy said:


> My guess, it was the price.


 that seems out the window now, and then some, given the stress of wrangling merely to get a refund. That is a headache, sorry OP. Darn hindsight...


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

noregrets said:


> I am sorry to hear about your experience, OP.
> 
> For what it's worth, I just took delivery yesterday of a custom DC 67 SI that I ordered through Asrar, and I couldn't be happier. It was a complex order with many customizations including an engraving. He worked very closely with me to ensure that the piece was exactly what I wanted, including having Damasko redo the engraving when it did not meet his standards.
> 
> ...


I too was very pleased with my purchase experience with him. He was a gentleman and he made me feel confident that I made a great choice in "buying the seller" as well. I even told him I was going to reach out to Damasko and let them know about my positive experience. However the experience was not as consistent after I asked for a refund. If what he says is true about needing Damaskos authority for him to issue me a refund then yes I would consider him an excellent seller. However I think he should disclose that in his terms and conditions so consumers are not surprised when there is no recourse. (Terms and conditions on his website does offer 14 day refunds).

I was bothered by the marks on the end links but it was tolerable and I was ok keeping it as is if that was the only problem. It was the compounding lack of quality control that lead to my decision.

I am glad you are please with your DC 67 Si!


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

Dagon said:


> You'll probably get them back in desired condition, hopefully that will make you glad you kept them.
> 
> Regarding the bracelet, I was one of the first buyers of a damasko on bracelet and from your observations I concur about:
> - slight marks on the end links. Well perhaps my slight marks have developed over time because of rubbing against other links. You will eventually notice small shiny specks appearing on the bracelet because of this.
> ...


Were you able to remedy the stiff links?


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

Chris Stark said:


> This is a doubly sad story and I hope you get satisfaction. Was there a particular reason you did not deal with a US authorized dealer since you live in the states?
> 
> With regard to the bracelet, you will find other links here also complaining its stiffness.


Whineboy is correct. What attracted me was his price. And since I bought two at the same time he gave me a nice offer.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

whineboy said:


> My guess, it was the price. A DA46 on bracelet is 675 Bahraini Dinars at Watch Boutique. That's $1790 US.
> I just paid $2K for my DA46 on bracelet and would never consider importing to get around the US AD - between shipping and import duties, I don't need the headache.
> Sometimes there are more important things than saving a few bucks, especially on a luxury item like a Damasko.


Totally agree. Wish I had the chance to do it again. I wouldve paid full price with a US AD for peace of mind.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

This Asrar guy seems to be feeding you a load of BS. The Watch Boutique has their return policy clearly posted right on their site:



> In line with current legislation The Watch Boutique provide a *return period* (not a try before you buy period) and a right to cancel your order should you decide not to complete the transaction. The return period begins the day after your goods are received and ends 14 working days later. The regulations require the customer to contact us in writing to notify us of the intent to cancel/return the goods.


According to TWB's own return policy (and "in line with current legislation"), you're entitled to return the watch within 14 working days of receipt. This is TWB's own return policy and it has nothing do with Damasko, so if he's telling you that the return has to first be authorized by Damasko, that makes no sense whatsoever. And then he tells you that he can refund stocked pieces only? That's even more bizarre. Since when does it matter if a piece is in stock or not? Per TWB's return policy, the exception is if the watch was customized in some way, which does not seem to be the case here:



> All watches and other items must be returned with their original packaging in a brand new, unused and undamaged condition. This policy applies to boxes, papers, warranty and owner's manuals and any special tools. If any of these items are missing, damaged or modified, the return cannot be accepted and the package will be returned to you.
> *If an item has been Custom Ordered or Personalized in anyway, it is not eligible for return and all sales are final.*


In addition, Asrar should also refund any shipping costs up to BHD 6.000 that the OP may have incurred since both watches were indeed faulty:



> If the goods are found to be faulty or not as described then we will refund your shipping costs up to the value of BHD 6.000 by prior arrangement with The Watch Boutique.


Oh come on, Asrar: The BS meter is through the roof. The watches automatically become the buyer's property despite obvious flaws with both pieces and in direct contradiction with your return policy? Really? You owe this guy a refund-plain and simple. Also, this is between you and the OP only, and saying that you need Damasko's authorization for the return is such a ridiculously lame excuse. It very much looks like you do not want to honor your own return policy, and instead shift the burden to the OP by having both watches repaired under warranty.

You owe the OP both a full refund, including any applicable shipping charges, as well as an apology for how you royally mishandled this situation. Do the right thing already.


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## shapz (Nov 6, 2016)

Heart breaking incident....seriously considering buying direct from Damasko themselves. Hope you manage to solve the issue going forward


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## sulpher (Nov 3, 2013)

Vig2000 said:


> You owe the OP both a full refund, including any applicable shipping charges, as well as an apology for how you royally mishandled this situation. Do the right thing already.


Totally agree.


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## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

D7002470 said:


> Were you able to remedy the stiff links?


Not really, i soaked it once and that seemed to help only a bit.
It is in practice not a big problem, some links are stiff but keep in the shape as they are on my wrist. But frustrating that the chain-like mobility is gone.


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## mucklechumps (Aug 15, 2009)

Dagon said:


> Not really, i soaked it once and that seemed to help only a bit.
> It is in practice not a big problem, some links are stiff but keep in the shape as they are on my wrist. But frustrating that the chain-like mobility is gone.


This is my experience with the Damasko bracelet I own as well.


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## pdsf (Oct 8, 2014)

To the OP - thanks for detailing your experience and including the informative pictures. Not a good experience!! I think dealer interactions are an integral part of a watch-buying experience. Whenever I look at my watches, I am reminded of my buying experience.



Dagon said:


> You'll probably get them back in desired condition, hopefully that will make you glad you kept them.
> 
> Regarding the bracelet, I was one of the first buyers of a damasko on bracelet and from your observations I concur about:
> - slight marks on the end links. Well perhaps my slight marks have developed over time because of rubbing against other links. You will eventually notice small shiny specks appearing on the bracelet because of this.
> ...


I also have slight marks on the end links of my bracelet. They are faint and not noticeable unless viewed at a certain angle. I wasn't bothered so much by them because I knew I was going to wear the watch for years to come and I was sure over time, it'd gain some signs of use anyway (hardened steel doesn't mean it'd never have signs of use, right?). Damasko did state such marks could be expected with use over time.

My end links have no play whatsoever. They feel like they could even be part of the watch casing! I haven't swapped the bracelet out for other straps though... I thought I would at some point but the bracelet has been such a joy to wear and adds much to the overall aesthetics of the watch.

OP - I hope you will get to enjoy a Damasko soon - one that comes with a great buying experience!


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

Just want to update this post.

I confirmed with Isabella that an AD does not need Damasko's consent for a refund. She said,

We already contacted Asrar but he is responsible for the customer service
And he has to decide in each matter if he gives his customers a refund.
Regarding to our general terms and conditions the concessionaire can decide if he returns the watch or not.
Normally after buying a watch you can give the watch unworn back without any reason.
What he is going to do now is his decision and I am afraid to tell you that we cannot decide this because he has made the sale contract with you.
 Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
Isabella Damasko
As you can see Asrar was dishonest about needing Damasko's authority for a refund. I informed Asrar about my confirmation and he still denied my refund. His reply,
1. He doesn't know why Isabella is telling me so and will question her intentions.

2. He refused DA363 refund because I resized it and wore it as he said he would send me new end links to replace the bad link and scuffs. Then the stiff links happened. This I can accept as I should have never touched it and just send it back for him/Damasko to install the new end links.

3. He refused DK11 because he said I took the plastic wrapping off the watch. When i received the DK11 initially the plastic was poorly wrapped. It did not align with the shape of the watch, especially where the crown was. There were bubbles and lint under between the watch face and plastic. This indicated that someone already took it off and reapplied it. I cant prove this but I believe Asrar did this. After my complaints about the DA363 he ensured me that he checked everything on the DK11 was perfect before sending it to me. Cant carefully inspect a watch dial nor the caseback if the plastic was not removed. Please keep in mind that its not perfectly applied plastic protection. Its just a loose wrap that does not hinder the integrity of the watch when removed and reapplied. Heres what the wrap looks like the second time around















4. He promised me that before sending out the DK11 and DA363 he will inspect every inch and will ensure a perfect watch. He would do his best to make up for Damaskos and his mistake. He said I paid for a perfect watch and in return he will deliver a perfect watch and will do so at any cost.

I dont think he had any plans on giving me a refund. He was just buying himself time to get my watches fixed under warranty. This should not have been a warranty case as both watches were delivered to me damaged. So there is no chance I was going to get a refund. I just accepted it because it was my fault for not buying from a US AD. My plan was to sell the watches when I received them at the price I paid for them but they need to be in perfect condition.

I took delivery of the DK11 the second time around and perfect it was not. Broken promises from Asrar that should have inspected every inch of the watch before delivery. Damasko did fix the white specks on the dial, removed the lint from the dial, removed the metal shard from the rotor and secured the end link to case from up and down movement. These are the current problems with the DK11 and I will attach images to illustrate.

1. The original box is now damaged. Only two layers of bubble wrap shipped in a shipping bag. When he shipped to me the first time it was with ample protection in cardboard box. When I shipped it back to him it was very well packaged. In those exchanges the box was mint. He denied this claim and said I sent it to him that way. This is not true.

































2. End link scuffs or some like to call it metal rub are still evident on both end links. Damasko did not address this problem and I don't see how Asrar could've missed this the second time around. He asked if I want new end links. Yes that would be nice but I am not installing it myself. It should've arrived to me fixed and perfect.















3. Scuffs and shinny marks on bracelet. I did noticed theses marks on the bracelet the first time I inspected it and I did not make an issue of it which shows my tolerance to imperfections. Since there's been problems with Damaskos quality control and Asrars promise to deliver a perfect watch I will use this opportunity to show you my experience. Asrar said the shinny marks are from ice hardened process. I understand the shinny marks are within their guidelines as I read their terms but I really don't understand the darker marks. In all honesty I don't think there should be any markings on a highly touted bracelet regardless of price point. Furthermore we should not have to accept poor quality control because we like the watch so much or fear the complications of return process overseas.































































4. End link gap. Damasko fixed the lose end links from moving up and down but now there seems to be a gap on the 12 o'clock end link on the left side. You can wiggle the end link to the left to fill the gap which will expose a gap on the right side. Asrar denied any imperfections from the image below.









5. Rotor scrape. This was a problem the first time the Dk11 was sent to me. I just noticed it now when I inspected the rotor again. I referred to my 1st delivery pictures and saw it then.









6. Missing clear plastic cover on caseback. When I shipped the DK11 back to Asrar there was a clear plastic cover on the caseback still intact. I never removed it. Now the clear plastic is missing. If Asrar condemns me for removing the plastic cover that wrapped around the watch then I expect him to send me a watch back with the plastic on the caseback intact. It could've been a minor issue. He should've never sent me the watch again if the integrity of the watch have been compromised. He claims the clear plastic was on the back when he shipped it. This is untrue.

7. 2 screws not recessed. 1 screw on each end link is not recessed. He claims he checked and double checked every screw before the watch left him. He also wants me to screw it in myself. Yes I could do that but I am not touching it and be condemned for resizing the watch.














8. Pip problem. Pip looks recessed with expose adhesive. As to why Damasko and Asrar missed this is beyond me.





















9. Spots on dial. Yes that's correct. Some of you have experienced this and now Im included. I'm sorry guys but I really cant accept this from Damasko. Asrar did not comment on this issue.















I sent Janine and Isabella an email about the DK11 issues and attached the same images I have attached here. There have been no reply from them since 12/5.

I notified Asrar of his failure in sending me a perfect watch as promised and he denied all of the claims except for the scuffs on end links and the spots on the dial in which he never responded.

In accepting the fact that I am not eligible for a refund I do expect the watch to be perfect as he promised. Currently he is refusing any shipping return compensation. I am responsible for the shipping to him and is non refundable. I really don't understand this as the Dk11 was shipped to me damaged for the second time. I feel like I am now responsible for Damasko's and Asrar's negligence in sending me a damaged watch. I understand I would be responsible for the shipping if I wanted warranty work done on the watches. Asrar did refund me the shipping cost when I initially sent him both watches back. But this time he is refusing shipping reimbursement.

I am current waiting for the DA363 in which he said he inspected it very well under a loupe and that the watch seems perfect and is positive it will pass my inspections. I will update this post with my findings when it arrives. Its unfortunate that my buying experience went sour with the post sale. Although things did not work out to my liking I just wanted to post here so others can learn from my mistakes, my experience with Damako's quality control, to inform potential buyers that AD does not need Damasko's authorization for a refund and Asrar's post sale dishonesty and unprofessionalism.


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## Buellrider (Mar 31, 2014)

Wow, sorry to hear of your continuing saga with these watches. It seems that this dealer sold you either preowned watches or factory seconds (does Damasko even allow seconds to leave they factory?) I do not see how these watches could make it out of the factory, let alone shipped from the AD who is responsible for selling a perfect piece to the customer. 

On a side note, my 47 arrived perfectly from Watchmann. I think the AD makes all the difference in these situations. Also, the screws at the end links do not screw in at all, they just spin on my bracelet. But it is strange how far out they protrude on yours.

I hope you find a satisfactory resolution to all of this.


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## RTea (Jun 3, 2010)

I thought I was good at spotting imperfections but it looks like I've met my match. Still, all of these issues are inexcusable, especially at this price point. Sorry to hear about your troubles but I hope a quick and adequate resolution is made from this mess.

Hard to believe that this made it through QC considering it's not exactly a mass produced assembly line product. The discolored link next to the end link stuck out like a sore thumb! Not only does this not bode well for the AD, but for the actual products from Damasko as well.


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## urbino (Jun 28, 2015)

Yeah, something is decidedly hinky about this whole situation. Not just from the dealer, but from Damasko.

I've had a DC66 Si on my wish list for quite a while. It just fell off. If anyone from Damasko is reading this, you just lost a future customer. The deal may be between OP and the AD, but he's your AD. You chose him. You don't get to just wash your hands of him and leave your customer on his own.


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## Time On My Hands (Apr 28, 2014)

This story still has so much unfinished business, despite all your work.

For what it's worth, marks like this on the end link (pic from your OP) are inevitable, pretty soon after handling the watch. Obviously your bracelet had a multitude of sins, and looked used.










Best of luck, I hope you get some peace.


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## hwa (Feb 18, 2013)

A lot of those complaints would not have troubled me in the least, but this last photo showing the pip misaligned against the bezel? That would drive me nuts. But I'm in the "something doesn't add up" camp.


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## daffie (Oct 28, 2010)

Incredible what a continuing horror story!

Too much inperfections, and customer service completely non-existing both from AD as from Damasko.

Just like Time on my Hands said...the bracelet looks used. That alone would warrant sending it back with a complete refund.

It would certainly grace Damasko if they would be willing to help out the end customer in this case independent of where the responsibility lies. Certain cases warrant special care&attention from the manufacturer, especially when it concerns an AD not willing to take any responsibility. As Damasko I would want happy customers.

I think you're handling it very well with a come-what-may attitude but man...I would be fuming 


Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus


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## noregrets (Nov 21, 2014)

I can't help but wonder what the other side of the story is...


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## Millbarge (Apr 3, 2014)

What a bummer.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

noregrets said:


> I can't help but wonder what the other side of the story is...


You're right, we don't know what the other side of the story is. Either Asrar is completely unaware of this thread's existence or he is deliberately choosing not to respond. If it's the former, he's not unaware anymore. If it's the latter, it's really time to chime in, buddy.



urbino said:


> Yeah, something is decidedly hinky about this whole situation. Not just from the dealer, but from Damasko.
> 
> I've had a DC66 Si on my wish list for quite a while. It just fell off. If anyone from Damasko is reading this, you just lost a future customer. The deal may be between OP and the AD, but he's your AD. You chose him. You don't get to just wash your hands of him and leave your customer on his own.





daffie said:


> It would certainly grace Damasko if they would be willing to help out the end customer in this case independent of where the responsibility lies. Certain cases warrant special care&attention from the manufacturer, especially when it concerns an AD not willing to take any responsibility. As Damasko I would want happy customers.


Couldn't agree more with both of these points. It certainly seems like the AD screwed the OP and left him hanging high and dry. A case like this, which is fully documented with both detailed narrative and meticulous photographic evidence, qualifies as warranting special care and attention from Damasko (at least it does in my book). Damasko should certainly step up not only to make up for how _*their AD*_ treated the OP, but if for nothing else, to atone for their poor quality control. I mean, the rotor and pip issues alone are really inexcusable.

I'm not going to beat up the OP about not purchasing a from a top-notch U.S.-based AD, such as WatchMann, since he fully realizes this now, but I will say that I personally think Asrar is doing this to the OP because he can. He is taking advantage of the situation and the OP by refusing to honor his own return policy. Asrar knows that he has the upper hand and the OP has no real legal recourse, considering how the OP is based half a world away in the U.S.

I really hope that this somehow all works out in the end for the OP. I feel for you, buddy, and you most certainly deserve better than this.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Seems to me OP needs leverage against the seller. 
Asrar Merchant makes sales through WUS. There are quite a few feedback threads discussing him in the Watch Deals, Feedback & Reputation subforum. Why not post a brief summary of your negative experience there? Let the community know that you have had problems dealing with him. That might get his attention. Just stick to the facts - don't want to go down the name-calling path.
OP - I think you have shown tremendous patience and class throughout this frustrating experience. I feel very bad for you and I hope you get the perfect watch you deserve.


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## Penfold36 (Dec 25, 2015)

I might have missed this in an earlier post, but did you pay by PayPal/credit card? If so, it might be time to get them involved.


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## mistikalsunshine (Jun 1, 2013)

sorry to hear that, IMO the AD should just offer you a refund. Hope everything goes well in the end.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

Penfold36 said:


> I might have missed this in an earlier post, but did you pay by PayPal/credit card? If so, it might be time to get them involved.


My first major mistake was that I did not purchase from a US AD. My second major mistake was that I sent him money via PayPal Family and Friends method which was specifically requested by Asrar to prevent fees on his end. I was hesitant to do so but he gave a generous discount, had positive feedbacks and his pre sale communication was superb, so I obliged. I understand there is no recourse using this method.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

Whineboy~

One of the reasons why I felt comfortable purchasing from him was from the positive feedback here. I now noticed there's no feedback on post sale experience with him so I could be the first to do that. Thank you for your advice and yes it is extremely frustrating and I will continue to remain professional with this experience because I know its ultimately my fault for not purchasing from a US AD.


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## urbino (Jun 28, 2015)

D7002470 said:


> My first major mistake was that I did not purchase from a US AD. My second major mistake was that I sent him money via PayPal Family and Friends method which was specifically requested by Asrar to prevent fees on his end.


Ouch. People tut-tut and say "cautionary tale" about things like this, and that's fine. But it's certainly no comfort when it's you that gets played. Many of us have been there, and many more will be. Good on you for recognizing and accepting your mistakes. There aren't enough real grown-ups in this world, and you seem to be one.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

noregrets said:


> I can't help but wonder what the other side of the story is...


Communication with Isabella and Janine has gone cold. Perhaps they are tired of my inquiries about their quality control and about Asrar. Its highly unlikely they would chime in as I don't see them doing so in other threads. I would think they would want to defend their brand or educate us on how their ice hardening process could leave marks on the bracelet for example. Asrar is an active member here and he should share with you guys his side of the story.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

daffie said:


> Incredible what a continuing horror story!
> 
> Too much inperfections, and customer service completely non-existing both from AD as from Damasko.
> 
> ...


I never gave it a thought that the bracelet could be used. I just thought how could all these markings be possible on any watch at all. There is a huge disconnect between the value of the watch vs the quality control of the watch.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

Buellrider said:


> Wow, sorry to hear of your continuing saga with these watches. It seems that this dealer sold you either preowned watches or factory seconds (does Damasko even allow seconds to leave they factory?) I do not see how these watches could make it out of the factory, let alone shipped from the AD who is responsible for selling a perfect piece to the customer.
> 
> On a side note, my 47 arrived perfectly from Watchmann. I think the AD makes all the difference in these situations. Also, the screws at the end links do not screw in at all, they just spin on my bracelet. But it is strange how far out they protrude on yours.
> 
> I hope you find a satisfactory resolution to all of this.


Yes the first link on the end links can not be removed therefore it just spins. Im glad your 47 is perfect. My only wish after dropping that much money on two watches is for them to be perfect.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

D7002470 said:


> Communication with Isabella and Janine has gone cold. Perhaps they are tired of my inquiries about their quality control and about Asrar. Its highly unlikely they would chime in as I don't see them doing so in other threads. I would think they would want to defend their brand or educate us on how their ice hardening process could leave marks on the bracelet for example. Asrar is an active member here and he should share with you guys his side of the story.


Well, that's the shame of it. You're not the first to have communication issues with Damasko as spotty to nonexistent communication with them has been documented by many others here. Also, it seems like Damasko never comments within their own forum, so fat chance getting them to even chime let alone defend their brand or provide any education whatsoever. It's sort of analogous to my ISP: They provide an excellent internet speed that is never throttled, but absolutely deplorable customer service, and the only reason I stick with them is because of the excellent product they provide. The same applies to Damasko. With Damasko, however, their poor communication and customer service can definitely be mitigated by a superior AD.

And Asrar is definitely aware of this thread, yet he has not chosen not to respond. Damasko has chosen not to respond. And it's unlikely that either party will chime in. Again, a true shame that the other major players involved have chosen not to share their side of the story.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

D7002470 said:


> Whineboy~
> 
> One of the reasons why I felt comfortable purchasing from him was from the positive feedback here. I now noticed there's no feedback on post sale experience with him so I could be the first to do that. Thank you for your advice and yes it is extremely frustrating and I will continue to remain professional with this experience because I know its ultimately my fault for not purchasing from a US AD.


OP - exactly, I saw those positive comments and thought it was very odd in view of the troubles you are having.

You could contact Asrar and let him know you that if he doesn't refund you in full you will post a truthful detailed review alerting the WUS buyer community to the egregious problems you had with him. This might move him, since he surely wants to protect his reputation.

But it also troubles me because then we aren't protecting WUS'ers against a bad seller. We need an ethicist to advise us. @ Moderators - has this type of issue arisen before, is there a WUS policy?

Fingers crossed for you!!


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## ahsan (Mar 18, 2016)

Asrar messaged me last year while i qas looking to buy a watch. Even though i was looking for a fortis he tried to sell a damasko to me. Although i did buy a da46 but thankfully not from him. I went with pageandcooper. The watches were fine (although the fortis watch box had stains on it). Reliable AD. 

Anyways sorry to hear about your ordeal. Next time go with well reputed US dealers or PageandCooper. Hope it ends well for you. Good luck.


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## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

whineboy said:


> or you will post a truthful detailed review alerting the WUS buyer community to the egregious problems you had with him. This might move him, since he surely wants to protect his reputation.


 quite too late for that, OP has already published a very in depth report ?


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Happy Acres said:


> quite too late for that, OP has already published a very in depth report ?


I think he meant for the OP to post about his ordeal in the Feedback forum where it would attract much more attention there rather than here in the Damasko forum.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Vig2000 said:


> I think he meant for the OP to post about his ordeal in the Feedback forum where it would attract much more attention than here in the Damasko forum.


Exactly. That's why I said "buyer community".


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## pcunite (Oct 28, 2014)

Vig2000 said:


> You're not the first to have communication issues with Damasko as spotty to nonexistent communication with them have been documented by many others here.
> ...
> With Damasko, however, their poor communication and customer service can definitely be mitigated by a superior AD.


I think this applies to personality types that are good with engineering but bad with customer interaction. As Damasko grows they'll need to hire this type of personality to manage their brand.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

pcunite said:


> I think this applies to personality types that are good with engineering but bad with customer interaction. As Damasko grows they'll need to hire this type of personality to manage their brand.


I hope you are wrong and I am afraid you are right. Nowadays, poor customer service can kill a brand. I hope someone at Damasko will read this and think about it.

Since Damasko offers direct sales, they really do need to excel at customer communications and problem resolution.

Damasko could learn a lot from how Jorg Schauer and Team Stowa make their direct sales - it was a pleasure buying my Stowa Marine Automatic online, I had quick, clear communications with them, Stowa responded imediately to all my questions, it was easy. From what I read on the Stowa subforum, the rare problems with Stowas are handled quickly and easily. Jorg even responds directly to posts on WUS.


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## urbino (Jun 28, 2015)

pcunite said:


> I think this applies to personality types that are good with engineering but bad with customer interaction. As Damasko grows they'll need to hire this type of personality to manage their brand.


If they're waiting on growth to stimulate them to fix it, they'll never fix it. Bad customer support puts a hard limit on how much you can grow in a crowded market.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

We do not have a policy for what happens outside of WatchUSeek - and all what we read here happened outside of WUS (sale agreement) - so it is up to our new member and the Damasko AD in Bahrain to solve the issue outside of WUS. Rule 2 applies analogously though.

"2. Members who have personal issues with other members and moderators must resolve their differences outside the forum....."

However, issues with sponsors/members can and should be be reported in f63.

Sorry to say but I do not see the bad customer support on Damasko's side of the pond. IF I got it right Damasko fulfilled in repairs already in October. Currently I do see no further "resonsibilities" Damasko hasn't already fulfilled in. Unfortunately we do know nothing about the AD's point of view. Until now we only heard/read what our member's stated.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

Hope all is well guys, just wanted to update my current situation.

Janine finally responded to my email concerning the DK11 and said "there is no defect from our view. Damasko received the DK11 for repair. After this repair was performed, the watch left our premises in perfect condition. We would never send out a watch in such condition to our customers or concessionaires."

Perfect condition?

Damasko must think all the bracelet imperfections, scuffs on end links, end link gap, recessed pip, rotor scrape, un-recessed bracelet screws and missing plastic caseback cover is all normal. The scuffs on the solid end links are the same so they never even fixed that in the first place. Oh they must think those spots in the dial is perfectly normal too. You guys can be the judge. The pictures speaks for themselves.

Janine also emphasized that she will no longer comment on this matter any longer and for me to contact Asrar if I have any concerns. She also reiterated that Asrar does not need Damasko's permission to issue a refund. It's totally up to him.

Janine is fully aware of this post on WUS because she accused me of posting old pictures beginning of this thread when all the defects have been corrected and that the condition of the watches does not correspond to the truth. I started this thread on 11/5/2016 and I did not receive the DK11 in my possession until December.

Since then I had also received the DA363.

The bad link was replaced and the sticky hinge was resolved however problems still evident.

Once again poor packaging which resulted in a damaged box.





















Once again one of the scuffed end link was not resolved.









Here is the good end link as reference









Continuation of marked up bracelet.





















New discovery of alignment issue. The white triangle and the yellow triangle at the 12 o'clock position does not align. What do you guys think of this?



























I did email Janine with the same images above on 12/31, begged for a response on 1/10 and she finally replied on 1/30 stating "Please note we will not comment on this issue anymore." She made me wait a whole month just for that. How is that customer service?

I sent both watches back to Asrar and he paid me for the shipping cost. He did received them and said there are no problems with the DK11 except for the recessed pip and the imperfections on the bracelet. He could not see any spots on the dial nor issues with the end link gap, rotor scrape and un-recessed bracelet screws. Asrar admitted that there were still issues with the bracelet when he received it from Damasko the second time. If he saw it then why didnt Damasko? Whats even more untrustworthy is that he knew the bracelet was still a issue yet he still sent it to me saying everything was perfect. Sorry but there is no limit to his lies.

Also he does not see any issues with the misalignment on the DA363 and he did not comment on the scuffed end link nor the marked up bracelet.

He will give me full credit for the DK11 in which I have to use within a year. He does not have a vast selection of brands and only has a few brands of interest such as Squale(ordered the Squalematic), Laco and Fortis. I inquired about a Fortis piece and his price was $800.00 more than what I could get it for at watchbuys.com. So although I have credit I have to worry about his high mark up. I feel I deserve a refund on the DK11 as it was brand new unworn. All I did was unwrap the plastic around the face of the watch for inspection  and informed him well before the 14 day grace period of the issues.

As for the DA363 we are still trying to work something out. Currently his offer is to give me 50% CREDIT (not refund) and he keeps the watch. I am better off getting the watch fixed under warranty and keep it. But guess what. That's impossible now because he says he's no longer Damasko's AD. So not only does the DA363 has existing issues, it cant be fixed under warranty. Damasko would no longer listen to my problems and wants all problems to go through the AD. Now the AD is no longer an AD so who's responsible to get the DA363 fixed now?

So guys Im making some progress with the DK11 but im still at a dead end with the DA363.

Please let me know if there is a fair suggested solution I could take up with Asrar concerning the DA363. Its worth a shot. Thank you, I highly value your thoughts and comments. A few more months and it will be a year since I made payment for the watches.


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## daffie (Oct 28, 2010)

I can only say that I can feel your pain...it really is atrociously bad customer service from both sides especially from Damasko. So bad it's hard to believe a name brand which has a growing customer base provides such incredibly course, insensitive and none existing service to their customers.

I have followed your case from the beginning and was hoping you would be able to resolve this eventually...with Damasko stepping in to provide the necessary help. But alas...and it's a real shame. Horrible way to treat your 'valued' customers. I am dumbfounded!

Sorry I can't be of any real help to you.


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## major75 (May 21, 2015)

I can only offer you my condolences as I understand your pain. I had a similar experience with Cward. I bought a watch from them which i found to be out out of specs (gaining over 25 seconds/day) and it is the most I have spent on a watch to date. Cward refused to refund/replace it saying it had a mark on the bracelet and caseback and could only offer me 70% refund for a brand new unworn piece so I asked for it to be returned to me. Happy to find there was actually no marks at all so i don't know what they were on about even though I contacted them within 2 days of receiving it. I got the watch regulated ( runs at +2 now) and I love the watch now. It was disheartening to be treated like that especially when most people sing high praises of Cward customer service.

I feel for you as of course your timepieces are far more expensive and you may potentially lose out for no fault of your own. Sorry I can't be of any real help but do hope you find a solution and peace like i did eventually. 

Thank you for sharing your story.


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## GreatScott (Nov 19, 2016)

Here are my 2 cents, and they are worth what you paid for them. The marks on the bracelet are not considered a defect by Damasko, but I think they should be because all marks and scuffs should be made by the original owner and not come from the factory. I believe Damasko is using some tools to attach the links and the bracelet to the watch and they really need to stop using them. The bead blasting turns to a shine easily so they need to change how they work with it. This is a known issue and hopefully if enough people challenge the view of it as a defect things will change. As for the bezel alignment, I always think mine are not perfectly aligned on almost every watch I have ever owned and yours appears similar so it is probably not a defect. I think if that were the only issue you would be happy, but unfortunately you had a bunch. Luckily mine came in fine and I am a happy camper.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

GreatScott said:


> Here are my 2 cents, and they are worth what you paid for them. The marks on the bracelet are not considered a defect by Damasko, but I think they should be because all marks and scuffs should be made by the original owner and not come from the factory. I believe Damasko is using some tools to attach the links and the bracelet to the watch and they really need to stop using them. The bead blasting turns to a shine easily so they need to change how they work with it. This is a known issue and hopefully if enough people challenge the view of it as a defect things will change.


I agree with you 100% concerning the bracelet.


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## Buellrider (Mar 31, 2014)

Did Damasko ship the watch back to you directly or did it go to the AD first? I am wondering who shipped it packaged so poorly.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

Buellrider said:


> Did Damasko ship the watch back to you directly or did it go to the AD first? I am wondering who shipped it packaged so poorly.


Damasko shipped it to the AD first. AD inspected it and then shipped to me. He was informed how poorly the DK11 was packaged yet he took no additional measures when he shipped the DA363.


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## watchmego3000 (Jul 12, 2012)

Unsolicited advice: get both watches back, cease communication with both Damasko and AD, list both watches in sales forum, link to this thread, run a reverse auction (start pricing high and gradually decrease over time), move on with life and rid yourself of this unfortunate experience. Life is too short.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

D7002470 said:


> I did email Janine with the same images above on 12/31, begged for a response on 1/10 and she finally replied on 1/30 stating "Please note we will not comment on this issue anymore." She made me wait a whole month just for that. How is that customer service?


Pretty disgusting and lowdown way for Damasko to respond to a customer regardless of who's at fault. It seems like the phrase "customer service" is either a foreign concept or just completely worthless to them.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Ugh, this is like watching a slow motion car crash.
To me, somethings doesn't add up. It's interesting that Asrar no longer is a Damasko AD. 
Is it possible Damasko knows he was a terrible AD? And they are embarassed and just want to put the matter behind them and think stopping all communication is the best way to do that? Who knows if they had other problems with him?
Unfortunately, D7002470, you are the poor guy caught up in this. I hope you move on and find other watches that make you happy.


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## sulpher (Nov 3, 2013)

whineboy said:


> It's interesting that Asrar no longer is a Damasko AD.


When I checked out the ADs on the Damasko homepage I realised that Timeless Luxury Watches also vanished from their list of ADs. Anyone can confirm this / knows anything about it?


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

sulpher said:


> When I checked out the ADs on the Damasko homepage I realised that Timeless Luxury Watches also vanished from their list of ADs. Anyone can confirm this / knows anything about it?


Doesn't seem to be the case: Damasko is still shown as a featured brand on Timeless's website: http://www.timelessluxwatches.com/brands/damasko

Even features the new DSub1 and the Timeless/Damasko Special Editions. Unless there was some sort of drastic change in the very recent past, it seems like Timeless still remains a Damasko AD.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

daschlag said:


> Unsolicited advice: get both watches back, cease communication with both Damasko and AD, list both watches in sales forum, link to this thread, run a reverse auction (start pricing high and gradually decrease over time), move on with life and rid yourself of this unfortunate experience. Life is too short.


 Thank you for your advice and support. This may have to be my solution for the DA363. I wish there would be some sort of after sales support for the potential buyer if something goes wrong like the bracelet and claps stiffening up again. To my understanding, and correct me if im wrong, Damasko would only work on watches bought from an AD and requires it to be sent in by the AD? Perhaps the buyer could send it directly to Damasko if problems arises?

But yes, life is too short and this situation had drained so much out of me. I think and worry about everyday.


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## D7002470 (Jan 26, 2013)

Vig2000 said:


> Pretty disgusting and lowdown way for Damasko to respond to a customer regardless of who's at fault. It seems like the phrase "customer service" is either a foreign concept or just completely worthless to them.


 There is indeed a lack of customer service as much as lack in integrity and accountability. Damasko has a responsibility to fix the watches correctly under warranty. There's something severely wrong about Damasko sending out a partially fixed watch and deemed it perfect condition.


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## macchina (Apr 9, 2014)

Two things:
I was considering a Damasko for an outdoor watch and though a lot of the marks on the OP's watch wouldn't have been found by me, his report of their customer service really makes me want to avoid this brand!

Second, I've seen "ice hardening" mentioned here a lot and wanted to chime in that this is an extremely common process as a step in hardening stainless steel. I'll grant Damasko that a lot of watch makes don't harden their steel (it's usually left in the annealed state), but millions or billions of stainless items are hardened every day and an ice bath quench is nothing remotely unique. It sounds to me they may be 100% finishing the bracelet components before hardening (it's much easier on tooling when the steel is soft) and the marks may come from bulk handling of the components.

To brag about an ice bath quench in a stainless hardening proccess is like bragging about using primer before you painted a house. A lot of people do it, not many people brag about it!


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## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

macchina said:


> Two things:
> I was considering a Damasko for an outdoor watch and though a lot of the marks on the OP's watch wouldn't have been found by me, his report of their customer service really makes me want to avoid this brand!
> 
> Second, I've seen "ice hardening" mentioned here a lot and wanted to chime in that this is an extremely common process as a step in hardening stainless steel. I'll grant Damasko that a lot of watch makes don't harden their steel (it's usually left in the annealed state), but millions or billions of stainless items are hardened every day and an ice bath quench is nothing remotely unique. It sounds to me they may be 100% finishing the bracelet components before hardening (it's much easier on tooling when the steel is soft) and the marks may come from bulk handling of the components.
> ...


Damasko, bragging, hahaha, that is a good one, and total bull. This is one company that is almost the definition of modest. They do not even mention a "quench" they only say "the molten steel is enriched with nitrogen under pressure" They also make no pretense that this steel is uncommon, in fact stating it is "mainly used in the aviation and aerospace industry, such as in:

- Turbine bearings of jet engines
- Rotor bearings for helicopters
- Fuel pump in the Space Shuttle
- High speed bearings in machine tools
- Dental instruments
- Surgical instruments
- Medical technology 
- And last but not least in Damasko watchmaking"

you want to bash them you will not get much of an audience here, but at least try to use a fact here and there and not look like a complete troll.


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## major75 (May 21, 2015)

Happy Acres said:


> Damasko, bragging, hahaha, that is a good one, and total bull. This is one company that is almost the definition of modest. They do not even mention a "quench" they only say "the molten steel is enriched with nitrogen under pressure" They also make no pretense that this steel is uncommon, in fact stating it is "mainly used in the aviation and aerospace industry, such as in:
> 
> - Turbine bearings of jet engines
> - Rotor bearings for helicopters
> ...


Haha very modest. You, Sir have won 4 internets today.


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## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

Right, yeah, okay, you too! Whatever that means.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

macchina said:


> Two things:
> I was considering a Damasko for an outdoor watch and though a lot of the marks on the OP's watch wouldn't have been found by me, his report of their customer service really makes me want to avoid this brand!
> 
> Second, I've seen "ice hardening" mentioned here a lot and wanted to chime in that this is an extremely common process as a step in hardening stainless steel. I'll grant Damasko that a lot of watch makes don't harden their steel (it's usually left in the annealed state), but millions or billions of stainless items are hardened every day and an ice bath quench is nothing remotely unique. It sounds to me they may be 100% finishing the bracelet components before hardening (it's much easier on tooling when the steel is soft) and the marks may come from bulk handling of the components.
> ...


Two things as well: Why posting in the wrong thread ? This one here is about *Damasko and Authorized Dealer Experience, Refund Policy, Seeking Truth * and not about ice-hardening processes or patents Damasko holds.

Second, Damasko was smart to patent their choice of steel alloy for all watch case applications. They use Cronidur 30 (X30CrMoN15 1). They did not invent this steel, nor did they develop its ice hardening process. But they were brilliant in finding novelty in order to secure a patent. Here is their explanation of novelty from their US patent:

"these materials have heretofore been regarded by experts as unsuitable for the manufacture of wrist watches, due to the fact that such steels are highly magnetizable, especially by external magnetic fields, so that they function as permanent magnets whose magnetic field strongly impairs the highly sensitive clockwork of a wrist watch. The invention is based on the realization that the aforementioned hardenable steel surprisingly is suitable for wrist watch cases, and especially if in the interior of the case a ring or plate enclosing the clockwork is made of a diamagnetic metal."


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## Avo (Mar 1, 2010)

I find it absurd that this observation (you can use magnetic shielding to shield a magnet!) is deemed worthy of a patent.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Avo said:


> I find it absurd that this observation (you can use magnetic shielding to shield a magnet!) is deemed worthy of a patent.


All's fair in love and capitalism.


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## Iandk (Mar 26, 2016)

Well, given that in several hundreds of years of watchmaking, nobody had used the concept to protect the movement from a magnetized case, so that you could use more exotic alloys such as X30CrMoN15 for the case...


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## Avo (Mar 1, 2010)

Rolex used exactly the same sort of shield in the Milgauss in 1958. So the shield is not new. The only new thing is noticing that, if you shield against all magnetic fields (like the Milgauss), that will include any fields produced by the case.

Really doesn't seem worth a patent to me, but the US Patent Office disagrees.


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## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

Avo said:


> Rolex used exactly the same sort of shield in the Milgauss in 1958. So the shield is not new. The only new thing is noticing that, if you shield against all magnetic fields (like the Milgauss), that will include any fields produced by the case.
> 
> Really doesn't seem worth a patent to me, but the US Patent Office disagrees.


New was using a shield with a metal that was considered not suitable for watches. But I agree that it seems like a trivial innovation.
Anyway isn't it expired now?
As an aside I have a Böker knife with cronidur steel blade. In that use case it is a reasonably good (hard and hard wearing) blade steel though not the most extreme among knives, what is interesting though is that it is very stainless if I remember well, and hence it is a bit puzzling that it is not used for the dive watch.


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## Iandk (Mar 26, 2016)

Yeah, it's expired anyways, so it's a moot point now.

Cronidur 30 is one of the more stainless hardenable steels, but it's still not as resistant as 316L.


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## Matt_UKTX (May 24, 2012)

I am saddened and disgusted to read this story, and the OP is much nicer than I would be. Even though you used the "Friends and Family" method on PayPal, did you transfer the funds using a bank account or a credit card? If so, you may still be covered. Call the bank/credit card company and dispute the PayPal transaction. Once you do that, PayPal will reverse the transaction with Asrar while they investigate and you will have Asrar by the n*tbag.

I would also report him to PayPal, they can close his account for this, as he is clearly violating the terms of use by asking customers to send money via "Friends and Family" to save the fees. If they shut down his PayPal account, he can't get paid by anyone (at least not through PayPal) and more importantly they may take action. Just be sure to tell them that he asked you to do this. Clearly, it had to be his idea, as you have nothing to gain and everything to lose in this scenario.

I think you have a good shot of getting this resolved using those steps...

If that does not work, take the watches to a local trusted watch shop and have them repaired to your satisfaction, then sell them on WUS or eBay.

Good luck!


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## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

Vig2000 said:


> Doesn't seem to be the case: Damasko is still shown as a featured brand on Timeless's website: http://www.timelessluxwatches.com/brands/damasko
> 
> Even features the new DSub1 and the Timeless/Damasko Special Editions. Unless there was some sort of drastic change in the very recent past, it seems like Timeless still remains a Damasko AD.


I did see that timeless is running a 20% off Damasko right now so maybe they are phasing away.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


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## Happy Acres (Sep 13, 2009)

(off topic) but they were taken off the dealer list over a month ago.


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