# Affordable HAQ watches?



## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

So far i only managed to find Bulova Precisionist models which are sort of affordable, but they have horrible designs. What are the alternatives in the HAQ segment?


----------



## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

The forum search tool is your friend. Try this link:https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/cheap-haq-watches-740475.html


----------



## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

So, basically apart from Bulova, there aren't any...


----------



## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

None new and the Bulovas are suspect for maintaining accuracy over years.


----------



## shtora (Jan 11, 2009)

SEIKlO Dolce with calibres from the 4J or 8J families.


----------



## pbv (Jun 21, 2012)

Certina DS Master


----------



## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

You could place Bulova on that Certina and i wouldn't notice a difference. Doesn't look that good...


----------



## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

I did find one Bulova Precisionist that does look decent enough. It's the 98B142 model. All black, carbon fibre look dial with nicely visible white hour markers and a curved crystal which does look really interesting. It costs slightly more, but at under 400 EUR, i think i can say it's affordable. Though for this price, they could stick a sapphire crystal on it, especially since it's curved and exposed...


----------



## William2 (Apr 7, 2012)

shtora said:


> SEIKlO Dolce with calibres from the 4J or 8J families.


I paid about £330 for the Seiko SACM 167 from the Dolce family.


----------



## Sabresoft (Dec 1, 2010)

Not being too serious here, but real enough: Invicta Jason Taylor model 12959

http://invictawatch.com/collections/view-model/12959-jt

ETA 251.233 COSC

With their famous Flame Fusion crystal

Only a petite 52mm diameter!

But I'm sure that in true Invicta fashion steeply "discounted".


----------



## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

RejZoR said:


> So, basically apart from Bulova, there aren't any...


There are plenty of used HAQ watches! Only 2 of my HAQ collection were bought new. As a consequence, I have more than most


----------



## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

I'm not interested in used watches...


----------



## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

RejZoR said:


> I'm not interested in used watches...


Many are not. I used to collect BMWs. I could finance my whole collection with all associated maintenance for the price of one new 7 series  I was always glad to see people buy new ones. I knew in 10 years I could have it! ... and add it to the 3 other 7 series I had.


----------



## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

Well i don't have time (teh irony) or nerves to bother with all the scammers, potentially damaged stuff, hidden defects that i'm not told about even though they know about them, idiotic shipping costs from abroad etc etc. The only thing i ever bought used was my car and one smartphone. The car was bought from my parents so that doesn't really count and the phone was from someone in my country and i went and picked it up myself personally so i could actually see it myself before paying for it. There aren't enough people interested in watches in my country, especially not to have something this specific as a HAQ watch from Bulova, specifically a PVD'd version of Champlain. So no, i'm just not interested in buying used goods. I'm always willing to pay tiny bit more and get exactly what i wanted and be assured i can properly use warranty or RMA the defects.


----------



## Defiant4Ever (Dec 28, 2011)

Eeeb said:


> I was always glad to see people buy new ones.


I'm an Eeeber - won this last night ザ　シチズン - ヤフオク!. The Citizen A660 for 43200JPY.


----------



## ronalddheld (May 5, 2005)

seems like a good price to me.


----------



## Sabresoft (Dec 1, 2010)

FWIW: I checked eBay and found them selling at $799

Invicta 12959 "Chronometer Certified" Jason Taylor Cosc Specialty Watch w Case | eBay

It even comes with its own suitcase for transporting this valauable piece of heavy metal!

Considering that you can get a ChristopherWard C70 for only $26 more, not such a great deal, and the CW is a better looking, more reasonably sized watch.

Still I am amused that this watch even exists.


----------



## Sergiy Torba (Nov 17, 2011)

What about the new Certina DS-2?
Certina Klocka | Klockor På Nätet
COSC certified, with the recently released ETA 251.264 inside, still below 1k.


----------



## Sabresoft (Dec 1, 2010)

Interesting new model. Certina site has no info on this model yet, although several sales sites list it, indicating available in September. Not clear if only the Anniversary edition is COSC or if the whole DS 2 range is.


----------



## shtora (Jan 11, 2009)

It seems that only the LE is thermocompensated:

Certina Klocka | Klockor På Nätet


----------



## Sergiy Torba (Nov 17, 2011)

Sabresoft said:


> Interesting new model. Certina site has no info on this model yet, although several sales sites list it, indicating available in September. Not clear if only the Anniversary edition is COSC or if the whole DS 2 range is.


Hard to say, many polish sites list all models in the DS 2 range as having 251.264 movements, however I have not seen another confirmation to this. Only the limited edition model is COSC certified, other models are not, which do not forbid them to have Precidrive movement and not pass COSC certification to reduce the price.


----------



## Sabresoft (Dec 1, 2010)

Sergiy Torba said:


> Hard to say, many polish sites list all models in the DS 2 range as having 251.264 movements, however I have not seen another confirmation to this. Only the limited edition model is COSC certified, other models are not, which do not forbid them to have Precidrive movement and not pass COSC certification to reduce the price.


Yes, that's what I was wondering too. While COSC certification is a measure of assurance that a watch meets specs, the reality is that many non-COSC tested models could also have perfectly acceptable performance simply due to the fact that the caliber is a Thermoline, and eliminating the testing would save cost, thereby allowing manufacturers to make lower priced models that are still very accurate.

A quick check of the ETA website reveals that there are two versions of the 251.264:

Thermoline 251.264 PreciDrive; and

Flatline 251.264 PowerDrive

So it is quite possible that only the LE model has the Thermoline caliber, and the others the Flatline.

The 251.264 used in the new DS 2 must be a Certina specific version as the date window is at 6 0'clock not 4 0'clock as in the stock version(s) shown on the ETA site. This would require the dates to be printed in a different orientation on the date disc.


----------



## TimeSeeker (Oct 30, 2008)

Sabresoft said:


> A quick check of the ETA website reveals that there are two versions of the 251.264:
> 
> Thermoline 251.264 PreciDrive; and
> 
> ...


Well it clearly states precidrive on the non limited editions, so hard to see them using the flatline.


----------



## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

It seems i'll be focusing on the all black Bulova Precisionist Champlain. It's the most affordable, falls in the HAQ class and doesn't look that bad. I wish it had sapphire crystal because it's a curved one so it will be rather exposed to scratches but oh well.


----------



## Sabresoft (Dec 1, 2010)

TimeSeeker said:


> Well it clearly states precidrive on the non limited editions, so hard to see them using the flatline.
> 
> View attachment 1234487


Interesting!

So maybe the difference is that the limited edition is actually COSC tested, and the other models are just shipped without the testing (and added expense therein).

I wish that the Certina site would show some information on the new series, not that their site has ever been a great wealth of information on their models. A check this morning still showed nothing on them. Soon, I hope.


----------



## Eeeb (Jul 12, 2007)

Sabresoft said:


> ...
> 
> A quick check of the ETA website reveals that there are two versions of the 251.264:
> 
> ...


The Thermoline movements are a subset of the Flatline movements.

I note the docs for this movement are not up on the support website at eta.ch ... I assume it is either too new (??) or discontinued (??).


----------



## Sabresoft (Dec 1, 2010)

Eeeb said:


> The Thermoline movements are a subset of the Flatline movements.
> 
> I note the docs for this movement are not up on the support website at eta.ch ... I assume it is either too new (??) or discontinued (??).


These are new movements.


----------



## chris01 (Jan 5, 2011)

A Google search for "ETA 251.264" turns up a number of references. The ETA links show some nice pictures but don't give much info, and their links to the support website, as Eeeb reports, don't have any data . You can do a search for "251.264" on an ETA page and get a list of 5 links to other ETA pages, including a brief description of PowerDrive and PreciDrive.

Most of the general links that refer to the Certina DS-2 seem to show that it's the same movement for all the four models - "ETA 251.264 CEN PrediDrive". However, I have seen various pictures of the watch both with and without "PreciDrive" on the dial. The Czech sites appear to report availability from 1st October. Certina.com of course says nothing.


----------



## nedley (Mar 28, 2013)

The DS 2 collection is on the web site now, four models in stainless steel and one in titanium: http://www.certina.com/collection/gent-quartz/ds-2


----------



## Sabresoft (Dec 1, 2010)

But no limited edition model as far as I can see. Maybe that comes later.


----------



## SirPaulGerman (May 30, 2011)

for those who are looking for a cheap high accuracy , you can get a Seiko Dolce for less than $100 on ebay , I got a brand new just for $35 on ebay


----------



## harris498 (Feb 10, 2011)

I snagged a 53E1 a year or so back for $25. Used, but still a steal!


----------



## SirPaulGerman (May 30, 2011)

what do you guys make of this seiko ?

Good Condition Seiko 5Y31 8009 Quartz Watch Golden Stainless Steel Band | eBay









movt is *5Y31*


----------



## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

My recollection is 5y31 is a standard quartz so expect 15 seconds per month. As far as looks go it isn't my cuppa tea but if you like it then go fot it.


----------



## sevunts (Sep 2, 2017)

I know this an old thread, and yet there is something new to add.
This watch falls into two hated categories at once: its a homage and its an Invicta....and yet... Here is Invicta Men's 17194 - $165 COSC sertified chronometer with ETA 251.264 in it. How is this even possible? The movement alone costs north of $100...and then the certification etc. 
Anyway, if you can get over wearing a homage Invicta - its a steal.


----------



## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

From a brief price check, if you can stand to look at it...I don't worry too much about homage, but the thing is hideous IMO...you'll get a deal. It looks like this isn't the normal price; I'm thinking it's a closeout price, or excess stock that was dumped (cuz it looks like it's eBay sellers).


----------



## sevunts (Sep 2, 2017)

Yep, Ebay sellers they are. And I agree, the price is definitely not normal. Regarding the design..its basically Rolex Daytona on steroids... as an overall package its of course a bit controversial but I personally think that you cant beat this price.


----------



## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

sevunts said:


> Yep, Ebay sellers they are. And I agree, the price is definitely not normal. Regarding the design..its basically Rolex Daytona on steroids... as an overall package its of course a bit controversial but I personally think that you cant beat this price.


Whereas, if you offered it to me for free, I'd call it overpriced. To wear it? $1000/day...you pay me. I have the right to terminate.

(Let's see...the limited Eco Drive One, the new Chronomaster, and a Railmaster. Call it 3 weeks to cover taxes. Hmm...permanent retinal burn risk is getting up there.......)


----------



## Pro Diver (Nov 15, 2007)

Sabresoft said:


> FWIW: I checked eBay and found them selling at $799
> 
> Invicta 12959 "Chronometer Certified" Jason Taylor Cosc Specialty Watch w Case | eBay
> 
> ...


I am not defending Invicta Watch Group and their penchant for oversized watches but a former acquaintance of mine, a very large guy, reminded me that not everyone is normal size and that a 40-42mm on my wrist looks ridiculous on his. His argument was presented without a trace of emotion and he convinced me that there is a place, even a need for larger watches too.


----------



## Sabresoft (Dec 1, 2010)

Pro Diver said:


> I am not defending Invicta Watch Group and their penchant for oversized watches but a former acquaintance of mine, a very large guy, reminded me that not everyone is normal size and that a 40-42mm on my wrist looks ridiculous on his. His argument was presented without a trace of emotion and he convinced me that there is a place, even a need for larger watches too.


I fully understand your friend's perspective, I too prefer larger size watches (although not that large), but so often not only is the Invicta watch huge, but the styling is just bizarre. At one time i looked at the Invicta site and could only find one model that had styling that was pleasing to my eye.


----------



## Pro Diver (Nov 15, 2007)

Sabresoft said:


> I fully understand your friend's perspective, I too prefer larger size watches (although not that large), but so often not only is the Invicta watch huge, but the styling is just bizarre. At one time i looked at the Invicta site and could only find one model that had styling that was pleasing to my eye.


Yup! That is one reason that Invicta is a polarizing brand on 
this and many other watch fora.


----------



## wbird (Feb 25, 2015)

Actually Invicta has quite a few inexpensive HAQ models over at that place that sell's in prime boxes. Models include 14427, 16942, and 17195 to name a few. 

Honestly the 17195 'Speedway" model for 160$ in gun metal is quite attractive and relatively sedate and 43mm in size. It does share remarkably similar case, bezel, bracelet, and marker design with the Daytona, and folks seem to like them. Granted the Invicta has a big date window, different hands, and an extra marker ring on the dial. But the overall execution isn't bad, and is there a cheaper HAQ Swiss Chronograph, yes it has "Swiss Made" on the dial, that you can get new?


----------



## sevunts (Sep 2, 2017)

Dont get me wrong, I am not an Invicta fan, but when you compare their watches with similarly priced (or even twice more expensive) Citizens and Seikos you get significantly higher fit and finish quality. Ok, QC issues are quite common, and the bizarre designs.....however these Swiss made watches from the Reserve collection are still worth considering, IMHO.


----------

