# Incoming, vintage zenith defy 1968



## falten (Feb 11, 2010)

Thought i should show my new incoming watch, a zenith defy from 1968. 
Lovely watch for a reasonably price. And here some pictures!



















































Best reg!

//falten


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Very nice! Cal. 2542 PC?

Hartmut Richter


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## falten (Feb 11, 2010)

2552 it is, if anyone know this model very well please let me know, interested wich of the defys was the first in series. My from 1968, seems very early. Hope of course that it is one of the first  
Best reg!

//falten


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

I am not sure whether you have one of the original Defys. The model seems to have been launched around 1968/69 with the Cal. 2542 PC. At the same time, it should be noted that this model - or others very much in that style - were still made in 1972. By then, they had the Cal. 2562 PC. So you may well have an intermediate model from around 1970. Where did you get the information that it is from 1968?

Hartmut Richter


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## falten (Feb 11, 2010)

Ah ok! From the auction site that i bought it from, but sure, that can always variate some years. Perhaps some info that came with the watch when it was bought at dealer.
Thanks for the info!

best reg

//falten


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## LouS (Oct 6, 2009)

Nice one, Falten!


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

thanks for sharing
congratulations with a great looking watch
these early Defy's are very handsome and in demand 
especially perhaps this model which is round and angular at the same time.
It seems there was a variation of dial colors.
Dave has a collection of several models.
I agree with Hartmut that this is not a 1968 model but rather 1969-1970.
The movement cal. 2552 pc also points to 1969.
enjoy 

b-)


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## kubama (Mar 26, 2011)

That's a one good looking watch. Congrats! I love that bezel with high crystal. What are the dimensions?


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## Veritas99 (Dec 15, 2006)

Big fan of the early Defys, congrats!


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## Gombrich (Sep 29, 2008)

Well done. That's a very nice example.

Dave


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## falten (Feb 11, 2010)

Thanks! The dimension is 37mm without crown, and lug to lug 44 mm.

Best reg

//falten


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## urbra (Dec 28, 2011)

Hey
Can anybody tell me if there are someone who sell crystal for a similar watch as pictured above? The one I have in my workshop has case-number: 1808-68 and crystal is missing.
Regards
URBRA Urmakeri och Uttryck - Start - Personliga ting och tankar


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

urbra said:


> Hey
> Can anybody tell me if there are someone who sell crystal for a similar watch as pictured above? The one I have in my workshop has case-number: 1808-68 and crystal is missing.
> Regards
> URBRA Urmakeri och Uttryck - Start - Personliga ting och tankar


Your link must be incorrect as no picture shows.

Let us know when you fix it.

Dan


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## LouS (Oct 6, 2009)

Dan, I think the link is to his watch repair service, included by way of a signature.

The Defy has a special hardened mineral crystal, URBRA, that is unique to the model as far as I know. I am not aware of any sources for NOS crystals. My watchmaker has been making do with close matches.


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

LouS said:


> Dan, I think the link is to his watch repair service, included by way of a signature.
> 
> The Defy has a special hardened mineral crystal, URBRA, that is unique to the model as far as I know. I am not aware of any sources for NOS crystals. My watchmaker has been making do with close matches.


Ok, thanks! I wonder if a plastic would work? I realize that is far from original, but if he can get the proper geometry, it would still look good!

Good luck and please keep us posted!

Dan


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## v76 (Dec 29, 2009)

Very nice, congratulations! Count me as a fan of the early Defys as well ...


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## beeroclock (Jan 29, 2012)

Thanks for nice pics and info guys.

I found this one lying about. Had it for maybe 20 years, but never used it. 
Previous owner must have worn it from the day he bought it until he gave it away - Lots of scratches and superficial damage. Even corrosion inside (last pic).
I don't know the year nor movement.


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## LouS (Oct 6, 2009)

That's a beauty and looks very original down to the crystal which is pretty rare. Not surprised at the overall condition, as the Defy was designed to be used hard - looks as if this one was. But the case lines appear preserved. Assuming moisture damage is not too severe inside, this is well worth an overhaul in my opinion.


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Congratulations; love that white dial variant. The hour markers are simply astonishing. Not that the rest of the watch is less astonishing, but somehow I am very impressed with that white dial.
My guess is that yours is one of the first, made in 1969, with a cal. 2552 PC inside and a xxxDxxx serial numer on the back. Later (ca. 1970-71) some more were made with cal. 2562 PC, these usually mention '28800' on the dial.


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## beeroclock (Jan 29, 2012)

Thanks for comments! 
Yes, now I see it, small serial number on the back 332 D 869. Great!
I'll probably give it an overhaul, and keep the rough worn look. 
I'll try to get some inside pics if the watchmaker allows me in to his workshop while giving the movement an overhaul - to fint out if its a 2542 or 2552.

Still glows in the dark with a little help:

__
https://flic.kr/p/6791885287


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

beeroclock said:


> Thanks for comments!
> Yes, now I see it, small serial number on the back 332 D 869. Great!
> I'll probably give it an overhaul, and keep the rough worn look.
> I'll try to get some inside pics if the watchmaker allows me in to his workshop while giving the movement an overhaul - to fint out if its a 2542 or 2552.
> ...


Now that I got Roessler's book, I understand why people sometimes expect to find a caliber 2542 PC inside this watch (see also the OP). Roessler does mention for this model that it was first made in 1969 "with cal. 2542 PC" (and later on 2562 PC).

That is a mistake in the book: this watch was first made in 1969 all right but with cal. 2552 PC (and later on 2562 PC).

Caliber 2552 PC is typical for nearly all Zenith automatic watches made in 1969.

So I doubt that the Zenith Defy was ever made with cal. 2542 PC.

On the contrary, I have seen several with cal. 2552 PC.

Looking forward to hear what you will find inside.

|>


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Thanks for that info - I have no first hand experience on these!

Hartmut Richter


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## m300raj (Apr 3, 2008)

Gow are you getting it to glow in the dark?


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## Andy I (Feb 12, 2012)

Hi everybody.

I have been using this Zeneth DEFY 336D640 since it was bought new for me in 1972. It's well worn of course!

In particular the face is badly corroded as you can see. Is it worth restoring do you think?
I had a quick look through the forum and didn't see another one like it. Does anybody know which model it is?
I don't have the tools for taking the back off.








Thanks


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## Veritas99 (Dec 15, 2006)

Andy I said:


> Hi everybody.
> 
> I have been using this Zeneth DEFY 336D640 since it was bought new for me in 1972. It's well worn of course!
> 
> ...


Hey Andy, welcome to the forum.

It's a model A3651 Defy. Others I have seen had a 2562 PC movement, so I would assume yours is the same. Not a very common Defy model, although there are few good examples owned by members here.

Tough to say if it's worth restoring b/c I don't know how much it would take to get the dial back to proper form and your level of attachment to the watch. When new, it was a metallic blue that might be hard to replicate. There are a couple on Ebay right now a similar condition if you want to get a sense of the market value.

Mike


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## LouS (Oct 6, 2009)

Hi Andy,

Welcome! IMO, this A 3651 is among the most coveted of the Defys. From a cash value point of view, the key is restoring the dial, and I am not sure that anyone has the appropriate templates or can duplicate the spectacular original color. The movement is a failry common one and not hard to repair, and the case looks as if it remains in pretty decent shape. There were a couple of NOS complete watches kicking around about two years ago (of which one below), so it is not impossible that someone has NOS dials, but It's going to very difficult to find.

Congratulations on having such a beautiful watch, especially from new!

Since you are the original owner, I'm curious about the service history. How often or how many times have you had it serviced? Was it all preventive, or were there times when it malfunctioned? To add info to a side discussion the forum has been having, was the second had originally a different color, i.e. was the luminexcent material replaced at any point?

here is a brother watch, case number 338Dxxx. The luminescent material is obviously recent, and just a hair strident.


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Lou, that's a nice one. Spectacular condition. First I thought this was a later model, but it must be 1970, maybe even 1969? Which movement has it? Date of the bracelet ?


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## LouS (Oct 6, 2009)

sempervivens said:


> Lou, that's a nice one. Spectacular condition. First I thought this was a later model, but it must be 1970, maybe even 1969? Which movement has it? Date of the bracelet ?


Well, you know it appears in the catalog excerpt purporting to show "the first Defy models" in Rossler (p151) so I think 1969 -1970 production is plausible. There is a 2552 PC inside and the bracelet says 4-70, but I regard the bracelet as an uncertain guide, since they are so easily changed between models. Certainly, this is the case among the Primeros.

As a caveat, I do think that case numbers become problematic when we are dealing with unusual, small-production-run cases like this one. I think Zenith probably numbered the cases as a batch when received from the case manufacturer, or perhaps even allocated the numbers upon ordering, and then that batch stands apart from the normal run of case numbers until the watches are made. The resulting watches may be out of sequence with the watches in the more usual cases. Thus the case number correlates only approximately with production date. I am not expressing myself very clearly - my brain is muddled this morning - I hope you can understand what I am trying to say.


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## LouS (Oct 6, 2009)

Andy I said:


> Hi everybody.
> 
> I have been using this Zeneth DEFY 336D640 since it was bought new for me in 1972. It's well worn of course!
> 
> ...


Andy,

I've just been mining the forum, and it looks as if Zenith has new dials for this watch, or had in 2008, although it will cost you an arm and a leg. Have a look at this thread. https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/grandfathers-zenith-defy-back-swiss-218216.html


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Very interesting. So this model also exists with reference 01.1070.290 and that is the reason why I thought it was a later model.
Lou since yours has cal. 2552 PC I would date it to 1969. The S/N also seems to confirm that. 

Concerning Andy's watch ...I doubt that Andy ever had his watch serviced. The second hand still looks a pristine white and looks very good on it.

Andy, if your watch is not working any more, I would just get it serviced by a local watchmaker. You can still have the dial restored later. The hands look great IMO. If you would like it to look like new again, you might as well buy another one, search until you find one like Lou has. Probably for the cost of sending it to Zenith to have it completely restored, you might as well buy a new one, and then you can keep the old one completely original as it is.


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## Andy I (Feb 12, 2012)

sempervivens said:


> Very interesting. So this model also exists with reference 01.1070.290 and that is the reason why I thought it was a later model.
> Lou since yours has cal. 2552 PC I would date it to 1969. The S/N also seems to confirm that.
> 
> Concerning Andy's watch ...I doubt that Andy ever had his watch serviced. The second hand still looks a pristine white and looks very good on it.
> ...


Thanks for your replies.
My watch has always been in good working order. Keeps good time. I'm afraid that I've never had it serviced!

The hands and segment markers just about still glow in the dark.

I have no idea why the dial got so corroded. I thought that these watches were supposed to be watertight?
I didn't realise before that there was a number on the strap. Mine has 3 / 70. Is this the year of manufacture?


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## LouS (Oct 6, 2009)

Andy I said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> My watch has always been in good working order. Keeps good time. I'm afraid that I've never had it serviced!
> 
> The hands and segment markers just about still glow in the dark.
> ...


Super, thanks, very interesting about no service.

It's probably not moisture in the watch that kills the dial, but something about the blue pigment. One sees in many if not most watches of this reference and occasionally on other zenith watches of the era, like the blue subdial of the A 386 (but oddly, not the A 3818). My guess is either it simply ages poorly, or handles light damage poorly. Sempervivens is right, though - probably cheaper to hunt down a good vintage example than to send it to Zenith for service, judging from that 2008 thread.

The date on the bracelet is the date of manufacture of the bracelet, made by an outside company called Gay Freres. It means 3rd quarter of 1970.


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## Andy I (Feb 12, 2012)

Thanks Lou. To be accurate about the usage. I wore it more or less continuously at school from the age of 15 right through to when I was 30. Then I started to find it a bit heavy and since then have only worn it occasionally. It was bought for me by my parents after taking O level exams. I remember going to a shop in Hatton Garden London to choose a watch. I think it was a choice between the Zenith and a Sinclair LED watch (then brand new and all the rage). I choose the Zenith. I don't think it was that expensive? If a look hard enough I might find the box and receipt!!
Perhaps I will leave the dial as it is, but the glass could do with getting the scratches removed, any advice?


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

If the glass is plastic, you may be able to buff out most of the scratches (depending on how deep they are).

If it is plastic, you can use an abrasive such as toothpaste or polywatch and a cotton towel. Be sure to take off all the metal as it too can get scratched. Then just take your time. Oh, and it will take some time. ;-)

Dan


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## LouS (Oct 6, 2009)

Andy I said:


> the glass could do with getting the scratches removed, any advice?


Two choices. One is simply to replace the crystal. It won't be possible to find an exact Defy replacement crystal, but a watchmaker ought to be able to find near enough. I mention this option because you imply you're going to start wearing it again, in which case I would heartily recommend a service - there can't be much in the way of lubricant left after 40 years. Two is to get a product called Polywatch. That and plenty of elbow grease should allow you to buff out the scratches in the mineral glass as Dan mentions.


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## jesse1 (Nov 11, 2009)

The crystal is mineral glass .


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## DILINGER (Feb 8, 2013)

Guys hello,

I have the same defy model dark grey dial (not 28000). My father was the first owner of this watch. 
What is the approximate value of this watch?


Thank you

Dilinger


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## DILINGER (Feb 8, 2013)

1


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

please show some pics

has it got the original bracelet?



DILINGER said:


> Guys hello,
> 
> I have the same defy model dark grey dial (not 28000). My father was the first owner of this watch.
> What is the approximate value of this watch?
> ...


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Welcome to the Zenith forum. Sorry, we don't do valuations here - the Forum Rules & Guidelines will tell you why.

Hartmut Richter


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## Gilles (Mar 14, 2013)

From France ... so be cool with my poor english.

I find this watch (my grandfather 's watch) is somebody can tell me more about it, here it seems to have some experts
Zenith Defy Serial on the back seems to be 330D654

Is this watch an early Defy ?
Where can i find a new glass for it?


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Gilles said:


> From France ... so be cool with my poor english.
> 
> I find this watch (my grandfather 's watch) is somebody can tell me more about it, here it seems to have some experts
> Zenith Defy Serial on the back seems to be 330D654
> ...


Yes, it is an early Defy, among the first made. If possible, show us a picture of the inside of the caseback (and the movement).
Maybe you can still get an original crystal from Zenith. 
If not you will have to settle for a replacement crystal. 
Your watch seems to be all original. Congratulations and wear it in good health.


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## Hessu (Dec 9, 2012)

Both the glass and the crown are still aviable for Defy. Just ordered and recieved 2 glasses and a crown for my Defys. One glass for my old one that had a scratch and a crown and a glass for the new one (with rubberband and spotty dial). The suggested retailprice for the glass and the crown are 86€ each! The original Defy crown from 1968 did have that Nato-star (like on case back) on it, but replacement crowns have that latter date square-logo from 70's. I have enquired also a Respirator crown and it also was 86€, when you compare it to Omega crown (not a screw down one) which is about 16€, the price seems a bit steep.
View attachment 1011877


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## Gilles (Mar 14, 2013)

Thank you very much



sempervivens said:


> Yes, it is an early Defy, among the first made. If possible, show us a picture of the inside of the caseback (and the movement).


Yes of course it is possible ... but how can I open the back? which tool?



sempervivens said:


> If not you will have to settle for a replacement crystal.


I find an old watchmaker and he is looking to find one that will feet my watch ... maybe this week he will finish this job



sempervivens said:


> Your watch seems to be all original. Congratulations and wear it in good health.


My grand father bought it in an official jewelery (this jewelery is closed for many years now) so for sure it's an original Defy (if not it's a very very well fake)

Hessu can you tell me where i can ask for a new cristal (which adress) ? because i send an e-mail then a real mail to Zenith they always answer blablabla "we do not communicate any ...." blabla bla

Yours Defy looks like brand new one !! did you polish them ?


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Gilles said:


> Thank you very much
> 
> Yes of course it is possible ... but how can I open the back? which tool?
> 
> I find an old watchmaker and he is looking to find one that will fit my watch ... maybe this week he will finish this job


to open the back I would recommend using a rubber ball (this is a watchmaker's tool), but you can ask the watchmaker to do it for you...


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## Gilles (Mar 14, 2013)

My old watchmaker (he was in "school clock " in 1955 !!! b-)) was very happy to work on this watch, he tell me that this Zenith is in a very good heath and she propably will work well for a long time.

He also tell me "if the watch go to fast or to slow came back i will fix it without any problem, i'm able to disassemble and reassemble this watch eyes closed !!!

It's a 2552 PC caliber

Here i my precious ;-)

With a new glass put on it










The back off on you can read "ZENITH modele déposé swiss made acier inoxidable PAT PEND 1808 68" => 1808 68 for the "birth" date of my defy ??










An other one










Now I am looking for a leather watchband do you have some suggestions to offer me (pictures maybe)


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

That's sweet. 

It is correct, the oldest Defy's have that "1968 patent pending" ("PAT PEND 1808 68").


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## Hessu (Dec 9, 2012)

Original Defys did have 2552PC movement and at 70's movement changed to 2562PC, but that you can spot from the dial, it says 28 800 under Zenith (2552PC had amplitude 21 600).


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## Gilles (Mar 14, 2013)

New glass
New leather band
here is my "new" zenith" b-)


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Gilles said:


> New glass
> New leather band
> here is my "new" zenith" b-)


Nice, even in bright sunlight it still looks good. The new glass: is it an original glass, or ...?


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## Gilles (Mar 14, 2013)

I send 2 mails and a letter to Zenith in Switzerlandhttps://www.google.fr/search?client...&sa=X&ei=8v1_UdiWHMiZhQehj4D4DA&ved=0CC4QBSgA ... and Zenith don't want to answer to final customer ... i guess 
A genuine Zenith glass is too expansive about 80€ (just for the glass) and very difficult to find ... so "my" old watchmaker makes one just for my watch and put it on my Zenith ... for only for 25€ ...


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## Hartmut Richter (Feb 13, 2006)

Good stuff! You were quite right - if Zenith are too busy to take notice, there is no reason why you should wait and keep prodding until they do!

Hartmut Richter


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## Gilles (Mar 14, 2013)

I'm back with my poor English ...

My Defy is failed, the minute hand did not want to go over 8 h45 ... and i really wanted to keep my grandfather watch working so back to the watchmaker (a new one because the old watchmaker get retired).

I asked the new watchmaker to refurbish my watch, polishing, complete revision, change of glass (I buy crystal one on ebay), put some Luminova on hands ... and of course to repair it. He ask Zenith for genuine part to repair it and to change the O-ring for sealing (correct word ??)

I pick her up today .... a new Defy is born it's amazing


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## sempervivens (Sep 24, 2006)

Gilles said:


> I'm back with my poor English ...
> 
> My Defy is failed, the minute hand did not want to go over 8 h45 ... and i really wanted to keep my grandfather watch working so back to the watchmaker (a new one because the old watchmaker get retired).
> 
> ...


Great job, it does look a lot better with original crystal and the relume is well done too :-!


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Gilles said:


> I'm back with my poor English ...
> 
> My Defy is failed, the minute hand did not want to go over 8 h45 ... and i really wanted to keep my grandfather watch working so back to the watchmaker (a new one because the old watchmaker get retired).
> 
> ...


Congratulations! That is one nice looking Defy. I hope you get many good years from her!

Dan


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