# STOLEN: NOS Ulysse Nardin + King Seiko



## DoesNotTickTock

Hi guys,

I recently sold two watches on reddit, accepting payment via PayPal friends and family. I received the funds and shipped the watch via FedEx.

A couple of weeks later I received an email from PayPal stating that the buyer opened a dispute against the purchase. He has gone to his bank and said it was an unauthorized transaction (chargeback).

I provided supporting documents and evidence but his bank/ PayPal has ruled in his favor. Please do not make the same mistake, do not trust PayPal F&F or G&S for a safe sale.

SCAMMER -
r/wishiiemi James Finch [email protected]
I now believe his personal information is fake. The address is at Shaw Air Force Base, South Carolina.

Stolen watches-
Ulysse Nardin - 1968' NOS Chronometer with box. Serial 10935.
King Seiko - NOS 5625-7070. Seria*l 042156.*

If anyone has any information on the whereabouts of these watches please let me know.
Thank you for your time.
Cheers
Jarrod


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## BeroPlaysBass

DoesNotTickTock said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I recently sold two watches on reddit, accepting payment via PayPal friends and family. I received the funds and shipped the watch via FedEx.
> 
> A couple of weeks later I received an email from PayPal stating that the buyer opened a dispute against the purchase. He has gone to his bank and said it was an unauthorized transaction (chargeback).
> 
> I provided supporting documents and evidence but his bank/ PayPal has ruled in his favor. Please do not make the same mistake, do not trust PayPal F&F or G&S for a safe sale.
> 
> SCAMMER -
> r/wishiiemi James Finch [email protected]
> I now believe his personal information is fake. The address is at Shaw Air Force Base, South Carolina.
> 
> Stolen watches-
> Ulysse Nardin - 1968' NOS Chronometer with box. Serial 10935.
> King Seiko - NOS 5625-7070. Seria*l 042156.*
> 
> If anyone has any information on the whereabouts of these watches please let me know.
> Thank you for your time.
> Cheers
> Jarrod
> 
> View attachment 16245238


Wow I'm really sorry to hear this man. That's a damn shame, if I see ANYTHING I'll be sure to let you know. I'm sorry my man 😓


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## MX793

This is now the second such story of this type of scam in about a week.


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## happyscrappyheropup

MX793 said:


> This is now the second such story of this type of scam in about a week.



I'm sure there are lots more that aren't posted.

PayPal trades on it's ability to protect buyers and sellers, I wonder if the proliferation of these scams will hit their bottom line as buyers and sellers look for safer ways to buy and sell online.


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## DoesNotTickTock

BeroPlaysBass said:


> Wow I'm really sorry to hear this man. That's a damn shame, if I see ANYTHING I'll be sure to let you know. I'm sorry my man 😓


Thanks man, I appreciate it.


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## MX793

happyscrappyheropup said:


> I'm sure there are lots more that aren't posted.
> 
> PayPal trades on it's ability to protect buyers and sellers, I wonder if the proliferation of these scams will hit their bottom line as buyers and sellers look for safer ways to buy and sell online.


No protections with F&F for either party. If the buyer pays with credit card through PayPal, they can dispute the charge with their credit card company, rather than PayPal, and have it backcharged after the fact.

Seller would have some protections if using G&S in this scenario (that's what the fees pay for).


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## snowbongo

So sorry to hear of your awful experience, @DoesNotTickTock. Feel free to check out the thread below for possible options. There's a good summary/reference post by another Reddit user a few pages in.








PayPal Scam? Losing Both Watch and Payment


I am hoping someone has experience with this issue. I sold a watch last month to someone (Oris 65 Diver), and was paid via PayPal F&F. The watch was sent and delivered on September 15 and I have signature confirmation of the delivery. I received notice today from PayPal that there is a...




www.watchuseek.com


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## 6R15

those are very niche watches to steal....


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## happyscrappyheropup

MX793 said:


> No protections with F&F for either party. If the buyer pays with credit card through PayPal, they can dispute the charge with their credit card company, rather than PayPal, and have it backcharged after the fact.
> 
> *Buyer would have some protections if using G&S in this scenario (that's what the fees pay for).*



Did you mean the seller? The buyer isn't the one having issues in this scenario.

Sellers are vulnerable to scams when using PayPal G&S, including the risk of a buyer coming back as much as 6 months after purchase with a dispute. Sellers were using F&F in those cases to limit their liability and avoid the fees associated with G&S, but the chargeback scam is coming back to bite them in those situations.

As a frequent buyer, I have used G&S for my protection. If a seller tries something shady, I know I'm covered - I'll get my goods or a refund from PayPal. As a frequent seller, I'm more particular about payment methods and vet buyers as much as I vet sellers when buying, but I have used F&F in the past when looking to limit a buyer's options to scam me. These scams make me rethink some of my past practices.


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## MX793

happyscrappyheropup said:


> Did you mean the seller?


Yes, meant seller. Corrected.


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## watchRus

Use Western Union, or other means by which the buyer has no protection. PayPal will not fight a CC chargeback, because they have no reason to get involved when they can simply deduct the money from your account and move on.


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## MX793

happyscrappyheropup said:


> Did you mean the seller? The buyer isn't the one having issues in this scenario.
> 
> Sellers are vulnerable to scams when using PayPal G&S, including the risk of a buyer coming back as much as 6 months after purchase with a dispute. Sellers were using F&F in those cases to limit their liability and avoid the fees associated with G&S, but the chargeback scam is coming back to bite them in those situations.
> 
> As a frequent buyer, I have used G&S for my protection. If a seller tries something shady, I know I'm covered - I'll get my goods or a refund from PayPal. As a frequent seller, I'm more particular about payment methods and vet buyers as much as I vet sellers when buying, but I have used F&F in the past when looking to limit a buyer's options to scam me. These scams make me rethink some of my past practices.


Yes, sellers can definitely be scammed with G&S as well. Seems there's no safe way for sellers using PayPal anymore.


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## NC_Hager626

So, I guess you will not be flipping these watches in the _Sales Corner_.


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## Roningrad

@DoesNotTickTock, I'm truly saddened this happened. Will let you know if I see any posts here or elsewhere related to your timepieces.

I am likewise thankful that you are sharing this experience and giving all of us a heads up on the scammer and about PP G&S.


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## CMSgt Bo

Moved to a more appropriate venue.


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## MX793

watchRus said:


> Use Western Union, or other means by which the buyer has no protection. PayPal will not fight a CC chargeback, because they have no reason to get involved when they can simply deduct the money from your account and move on.


Great for sellers, but leaves buyers exposed. The going advice to buyers is PPG&S or other protected payment method.

We may reach the point where the only safe way to handle such exchanges is either face to face or via an escrow service.


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## watchRus

MX793 said:


> Great for sellers, but leaves buyers exposed. The going advice to buyers is PPG&S or other protected payment method.
> 
> We may reach the point where the only safe way to handle such exchanges is either face to face or via an escrow service.


Buyers can always eliminate the risk of being exposed by purchasing from an authorized dealer. But to the sellers who give the buyers protection, they have no one to blame but themselves when things go sour.


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## Crisker

It sounds like the buyer may be a military member (Air Force). If so, I would report him (or the AFB box number) to the Commander's office of the Air Force base. Stealing is not tolerated in the military.


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## blakestarhtown

DoesNotTickTock said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I recently sold two watches on reddit, accepting payment via PayPal friends and family. I received the funds and shipped the watch via FedEx.
> 
> A couple of weeks later I received an email from PayPal stating that the buyer opened a dispute against the purchase. He has gone to his bank and said it was an unauthorized transaction (chargeback).
> 
> I provided supporting documents and evidence but his bank/ PayPal has ruled in his favor. Please do not make the same mistake, do not trust PayPal F&F or G&S for a safe sale.
> 
> SCAMMER -
> r/wishiiemi James Finch [email protected]
> I now believe his personal information is fake. The address is at Shaw Air Force Base, South Carolina.
> 
> Stolen watches-
> Ulysse Nardin - 1968' NOS Chronometer with box. Serial 10935.
> King Seiko - NOS 5625-7070. Seria*l 042156.*
> 
> If anyone has any information on the whereabouts of these watches please let me know.
> Thank you for your time.
> Cheers
> Jarrod
> 
> View attachment 16245238


Man that is horrible. You got scammed by a vintage nut. Sad to say this is going to start happening a lot now.
Money is getting tight and the economy is in the toilet. I can't imagine being a watch dealer or flipper.
I suggest before conducting a transaction, getting the guy on a WhatsApp call and to record the conversation.
Also ask him to send a picture of his ID. I know it seems like a hassle but what other choice do you have?
Sad to say but these scammers and hype gray market dealers will be the death of this hobby.


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## crismoffitt

DoesNotTickTock said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I recently sold two watches on reddit, accepting payment via PayPal friends and family. I received the funds and shipped the watch via FedEx.
> 
> A couple of weeks later I received an email from PayPal stating that the buyer opened a dispute against the purchase. He has gone to his bank and said it was an unauthorized transaction (chargeback).
> 
> I provided supporting documents and evidence but his bank/ PayPal has ruled in his favor. Please do not make the same mistake, do not trust PayPal F&F or G&S for a safe sale.
> 
> SCAMMER -
> r/wishiiemi James Finch [email protected]
> I now believe his personal information is fake. The address is at Shaw Air Force Base, South Carolina.
> 
> Stolen watches-
> Ulysse Nardin - 1968' NOS Chronometer with box. Serial 10935.
> King Seiko - NOS 5625-7070. Seria*l 042156.*
> 
> If anyone has any information on the whereabouts of these watches please let me know.
> Thank you for your time.
> Cheers
> Jarrod
> 
> View attachment 16245238


So sorry to hear that. :-(


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## StrangeQuark

Sorry to hear that, OP that really sucks, for sure. Bottom line for me is, if the buyer is not actually a friend or a family member, then don't use F&F. The minor fees for G&S are totally worth the protection. Hell, I've got some friends and some family that I wouldn't risk using F&F on...


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## hllkll33

Same guy got me dude. Like 2-3 years ago. Not the exact same Address but in SC and close in proximity. Mine was for a Rolex OP39. Still pissed. Authorities are zero help too.


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## Ring

happyscrappyheropup said:


> I'm sure there are lots more that aren't posted.
> 
> PayPal trades on it's ability to protect buyers and sellers, I wonder if the proliferation of these scams will hit their bottom line as buyers and sellers look for safer ways to buy and sell online.


Friends and Family money transfers are not for Sales!


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## SayNo2Babies

I had an offer on reddit last week from a SC person 'in the military so you can trust me'. He had no feedback and backed out when I requested a bank transfer, but he originally made the offer via paypal f&f. He had a different username but could be the same guy with an alt account. Very sorry this happened to you.


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## FJ40seikokingturtle

Sorry to hear that man


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## vmgotit

If you buy on EBay and pay with PayPal, even G&S, be careful. I bought a watch on EBay, paid with PayPal G&S. Seller wrote FedEx in add, then sent the watch out DHL. Never did get the watch, opened a dispute with eBay, after getting the runaround, with both EBay and seller, I contacted PayPal, next day got a message from eBay, that they were dropping the case because I asked PayPal for help? Still nothing no watch no money back! Still waiting for PayPal, to do anything. Vance


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## hondaman

Sorry to hear that. I have used PayPal for decades...buying and selling. 

I don't think I will use them anymore when selling something expensive.


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## Ring

vmgotit said:


> If you buy on EBay and pay with PayPal, even G&S, be careful. I bought a watch on EBay, paid with PayPal G&S. Seller wrote FedEx in add, then sent the watch out DHL. Never did get the watch, opened a dispute with eBay, after getting the runaround, with both EBay and seller, I contacted PayPal, next day got a message from eBay, that they were dropping the case because I asked PayPal for help? Still nothing no watch no money back! Still waiting for PayPal, to do anything. Vance


Well, ya got to know the rules to play the game. Following eBay rules is a process. 
I suggest you put a hold on the PayPal claim and then appeal eBay's decision.


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## nathan777

I had a guy that bought a watch off me on Ebay and then later claimed it was an unauthorized charge. I was given the money back once the Ebay seller protection confirmed I had done everything correct. I did take about a week to resolve. I know now Ebay using their authenticity guaranteed has made it harder for scammers with try and return items that were not actually in the return box as most high dollars returns are verified by their service.

It's hard now days to sell no matter if you are just trying to fund your next watch or you are trying to make a profit.


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## Renkensue

These kinds of issues happen quite often. It has happened to me in the past where buyer disputed the charge with their CC/bank. This is why I now sell to reputable resellers. Yes I am not getting the best value for my watches but I don't sell often and I no longer have to worry about these problems happening again


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## viknijjar

Sorry this happened, bad business.

buyers need references just as much as sellers


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## watchRus

nathan777 said:


> I had a guy that bought a watch off me on Ebay and then later claimed it was an *authorized *charge. I was given the money back once the Ebay seller protection confirmed I had done everything correct. I did take about a week to resolve. I know now Ebay using their authenticity guaranteed has made it harder for scammers with try and return items that were not actually in the return box as most high dollars returns are verified by their service.
> 
> It's hard now days to sell no matter if you are just trying to fund your next watch or you are trying to make a profit.


I believe you mean _unauthorized_.***

What differentiates your case is that your buyer did not file a dispute with their CC, but rather with Ebay. No chance Ebay/PayPal, or any business, is winning an unauthorized charge dispute. Or, at the very least, it will be a very uphill battle to prove that someone didn't hack chargebacker's PC, etc. to make an unauthorized charge, even if the goods were delivered to the chargebacker's house address. A battle that Ebay/PayPal will simply overlook when it is easier for them to deduct money from you. This is a serious problem and I hope Ebay and PayPal finds a way to deal with these types of scams without negatively impacting their client/customer base.


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## Crisker

StrangeQuark said:


> Sorry to hear that, OP that really sucks, for sure. Bottom line for me is, if the buyer is not actually a friend or a family member, then don't use F&F. The minor fees for G&S are totally worth the protection. Hell, I've got some friends and some family that I wouldn't risk using F&F on...


You must have missed the recent thread on this issue because G&S does not offer the seller any protection. The same scam can be run using both G&S and F&F; either way and in both cases, the seller is screwed.

Here's the real bottom line: only sell to members of this forum that are well-established and have excellent feedback. 

We have had several sellers get watches stolen over the past few weeks using various methods of sale (G&S, F&F, eBay) and the one thing they all have in common is they did not follow the bottom line I noted above.


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## t1ckt0ckio

You should file a police report (for what its worth).


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## Watchman83

No more PayPal for watch sales for me. Period 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## smithj

Sorry this happened, OP. I had the same thing happen this week and lost an Oris Divers 65 Timeless LE. I’m learning there is very little that can be done in this situation. I would file a police report and if you shipped by USPS a complaint with the postal inspector.


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## Saswatch

So sorry to hear that. Another user had a watch stolen in a similar chargeback scam a few days ago. While I understand the lure of F&F, it has 0 protections for either party.

Not sure what city in SC but here is a police report to file in Myrtle Beach.


Myrtle Beach Police Department P2C



I really hope these scammers get caught and the stolen items returned.


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## nathan777

watchRus said:


> I believe you mean _unauthorized_.***
> 
> What differentiates your case is that your buyer did not file a dispute with their CC, but rather with Ebay. No chance Ebay/PayPal, or any business, is winning an unauthorized charge dispute. Or, at the very least, it will be a very uphill battle to prove that someone didn't hack chargebacker's PC, etc. to make an unauthorized charge, even if the goods were delivered to the chargebacker's house address. A battle that Ebay/PayPal will simply overlook when it is easier for them to deduct money from you. This is a serious problem and I hope Ebay and PayPal finds a way to deal with these types of scams without negatively impacting their client/customer base.


The credit card holder did file a dispute with his bank saying he did not authorize the card. Ebay/Paypal at one time when they were merged as one company did offer seller protection for those situations when an item was correctly shipping to a confirmed address and signed for delivery. In my case it was PayPal that had taken the money back from me for about 2 weeks while I placed a claim under the seller protection. Once it was proven I shipped to the confirmed address and it was signed by the person it was shipped to I got all my money back from PayPal under their seller protection.The money came from PayPal and not the bank that did the charge back.

I am not sure if they still do that.


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## chief-diversity-officer

Man i naively thought PayPal g&s protects sellers. Now i know to be careful. Sorry OP.


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## CMSgt Bo

Crisker said:


> It sounds like the buyer may be a military member (Air Force). If so, I would report him (or the AFB box number) to the Commander's office of the Air Force base. Stealing is not tolerated in the military.


If the recipient's address is on an Air Force Base you should make a call directly to their Security Forces Squadron who will assign an Investigator. If they determine it's a crime that spans more than one Base they'll hand the investigation over to the Office of Special Investigations (AF OSI).


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## DoesNotTickTock

happyscrappyheropup said:


> Did you mean the seller? The buyer isn't the one having issues in this scenario.
> 
> Sellers are vulnerable to scams when using PayPal G&S, including the risk of a buyer coming back as much as 6 months after purchase with a dispute. Sellers were using F&F in those cases to limit their liability and avoid the fees associated with G&S, but the chargeback scam is coming back to bite them in those situations.
> 
> As a frequent buyer, I have used G&S for my protection. If a seller tries something shady, I know I'm covered - I'll get my goods or a refund from PayPal. As a frequent seller, I'm more particular about payment methods and vet buyers as much as I vet sellers when buying, but I have used F&F in the past when looking to limit a buyer's options to scam me. These scams make me rethink some of my past practices.


Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. I would not recommend using G&S or F7F for any transactions as you can be scammed either way. I have used F&F for easily over 50 transactions as I always thought this was totally safe, I had never heard of the chargeback happening before. I have lost the money and the watches, I just hope that I can recover the watches somehow.


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## DoesNotTickTock

MX793 said:


> No protections with F&F for either party. If the buyer pays with credit card through PayPal, they can dispute the charge with their credit card company, rather than PayPal, and have it backcharged after the fact.
> 
> Seller would have some protections if using G&S in this scenario (that's what the fees pay for).


Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. This is true but they can also dispute the charge with G&S and I am sure you would have to bend over backwards to convince PP that you are in the right. It seems that the "buyer" is always right.


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## DoesNotTickTock

NC_Hager626 said:


> So, I guess you will not be flipping these watches in the _Sales Corner_.


Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. I believe in this forum and it's members and how it goes about vetting each other but I have heard of people being scammed from "members" with good references. I am not sure if the scammers have just used an account that isn't being used anymore. Without a sense of trust and positive feedback on here it makes it hard to sell watches to other collectors.


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## DoesNotTickTock

MX793 said:


> Great for sellers, but leaves buyers exposed. The going advice to buyers is PPG&S or other protected payment method.
> 
> We may reach the point where the only safe way to handle such exchanges is either face to face or via an escrow service.


Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. I always think about escrow, but what if you shipped off the watch and the buyer were to say that they never received the package?


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## DoesNotTickTock

blakestarhtown said:


> Man that is horrible. You got scammed by a vintage nut. Sad to say this is going to start happening a lot now.
> Money is getting tight and the economy is in the toilet. I can't imagine being a watch dealer or flipper.
> I suggest before conducting a transaction, getting the guy on a WhatsApp call and to record the conversation.
> Also ask him to send a picture of his ID. I know it seems like a hassle but what other choice do you have?
> Sad to say but these scammers and hype gray market dealers will be the death of this hobby.


Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. It's hard because these POS are using every trick in the book, the ID he had sent me was photoshopped to use the fake name etc. Our fun little hobby has really changed a lot since social media came around, somewhat for the better but mostly changed for the worst.


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## MX793

DoesNotTickTock said:


> Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. I always think about escrow, but what if you shipped off the watch and the buyer were to say that they never received the package?


Failed delivery would be covered under shipping insurance. The sender would need to file an insurance claim for lost/damaged goods.


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## DoesNotTickTock

StrangeQuark said:


> Sorry to hear that, OP that really sucks, for sure. Bottom line for me is, if the buyer is not actually a friend or a family member, then don't use F&F. The minor fees for G&S are totally worth the protection. Hell, I've got some friends and some family that I wouldn't risk using F&F on...


Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. You don't always get the protection with G&S this is what most scammers use as they know they can get away with the chargeback with their bank. I would recommend wire transferor face to face only.


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## DoesNotTickTock

hllkll33 said:


> Same guy got me dude. Like 2-3 years ago. Not the exact same Address but in SC and close in proximity. Mine was for a Rolex OP39. Still pissed. Authorities are zero help too.


Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. Really? I am so sorry to hear that. I am working with a lot of people to hopefully sort this. I really hate these POS for stuffing up our weird and wonderful hobby.


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## DoesNotTickTock

vmgotit said:


> If you buy on EBay and pay with PayPal, even G&S, be careful. I bought a watch on EBay, paid with PayPal G&S. Seller wrote FedEx in add, then sent the watch out DHL. Never did get the watch, opened a dispute with eBay, after getting the runaround, with both EBay and seller, I contacted PayPal, next day got a message from eBay, that they were dropping the case because I asked PayPal for help? Still nothing no watch no money back! Still waiting for PayPal, to do anything. Vance


Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. I am sorry to hear that, PP are the worst. They are honestly not worth dealing with in any way shape or form. I will be taking them off the websites that I run and never use or recommend them. I hope you get a positive outcome.


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## DoesNotTickTock

smithj said:


> Sorry this happened, OP. I had the same thing happen this week and lost an Oris Divers 65 Timeless LE. I’m learning there is very little that can be done in this situation. I would file a police report and if you shipped by USPS a complaint with the postal inspector.


Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. I'm sorry to hear that, you should keep your eye out for it and you may be able to get it back with the help of a detective.


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## happyscrappyheropup

DoesNotTickTock said:


> Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. I would not recommend using G&S or F7F for any transactions as you can be scammed either way. I have used F&F for easily over 50 transactions as I always thought this was totally safe, I had never heard of the chargeback happening before. I have lost the money and the watches, I just hope that I can recover the watches somehow.



I hope you can get your stuff back. Have you made any progress with police or the scammer?


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## vmgotit

PP, 3 times now, has changed the date to resolve this and give me a decision in my case. Vance.


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## blakestarhtown

DoesNotTickTock said:


> Sorry I have been away with work and not been able to reply. It's hard because these POS are using every trick in the book, the ID he had sent me was photoshopped to use the fake name etc. Our fun little hobby has really changed a lot since social media came around, somewhat for the better but mostly changed for the worst.


Social media has ruined the hobby.


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## DoesNotTickTock

Shiny-Lights said:


> any updates op? surely you can do something for this?


Bank and PP have ruled his way. I have a detective from the Military working on the case at the moment.


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## demof1

Shiny-Lights said:


> I CANT BELIEVE THIS CRAP! so scammers can just do this and get away with your money and the watches? such bs, what method of receiving funds is even safe now?


Hey you would be amazed at the stupid decisions being made out there. I bought a POS Tudor watch from Ebay, no one could open the back up, I returned it. Seller lies and states I never sent it back. Ebay find in her favour and award the seller the money. She then relists the watch ON EBAY a few days later and it sells. I show ebay the link which clearly demonstrates the watch was returned right? Wrong, ebay state their decision is final. Selling/buying watches on the grey market is fraught with danger.


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## demof1

Shiny-Lights said:


> you can't be serious right?..... do a chargeback on that PLEASE


How successful are chargebacks? I have started one and I am just waiting now.

Here is what VISA uncovered from ebay, according to them the watch was never returned and they received no tracking.









Here is the tracking actually on the ebay item, with successful delivery Oct 1. Item relisted and sold Oct 3. Ebay state I never returned it even though they have all of this evidence. I mean, just be careful guys.









Relisted item:
(for Parts Only) Vintage 1968 Rolex TUDOR Submariner Diver Watch Ref: 7016/0 | eBay


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## Maviarab

Unbelievable _shakes head_


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## Ring

Shiny-Lights said:


> but its showed as delivered???


Read all the posts, if you turn on the flick with only 5 minutes left you miss the whole plot


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## Ums

I lost a mobile as a seller on eBay. Shipped it out, buyer said he never received but was shown as delivered.

Same story, lost the money I had to refund and the phone never came back.

I stopped selling stuff after that, too much hassle nowadays.


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## Rolexplorer

They don't call it fleecebay for no reason.


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## Rolexplorer

Shiny-Lights said:


> I don't understand so buyers can just kept on doing that and get no consequence? like someone buys a Rolex and says it never arrived then what, nothing? He got to keep the watch and the money? thats bs


It is not bs. It is real life, unfortunately. Happens all the time. Posts here and over at TRF show this is a common scam.
That is why I will NEVER have anything to do with auction sites. Just too much of a mine field with them.


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## DonJ53

Is that going to happen now with the Authentication system.


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## Rolexplorer

Shiny-Lights said:


> I don't understand, really. Lets say someone bought a sub on eBay and says it never arrived, then what happens???
> 
> isn't that mail fraud? also won't police came to their house and investigate? surely theres something they can do about it, no?


You are correct. You DON'T understand.
You need to get more information from past posts about this, and then you WILL understand.
Not being mean here or a smart___, just passing along known information. It is all a learning process here.
The scammers are really good at these scams, and have the ability <somehow, due to their cleverness>, to OFTEN hide from the authorities. Some get caught, others do get away with it.
I some instances, the "authorities" just do not have the time or inclination to deal with these messes. Especially in foreign countries.
Cross-border sales, for example, can end up being a nightmare to solve issues.
Read and study past posts about auction ripoffs and you will be enlightened. It is all out there to research.
Those are my final comments.


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## Maviarab

DonJ53 said:


> Is that going to happen now with the Authentication system.


Well one, that's only for watches over 2k. Second, by saying it was never received, no different really regardless of who sending it you is it so my answer would be yes. The only good thing with authentification is they can't say it's fake or not as advertised as it's supposedly gone through an 'expert' first. That 'expert' still has to then send it to the 'buyer'....


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## DonJ53

Maviarab said:


> Well one, that's only for watches over 2k. Second, by saying it was never received, no different really regardless of who sending it you is it so my answer would be yes. The only good thing with authentification is they can't say it's fake or not as advertised as it's supposedly gone through an 'expert' first. That 'expert' still has to then send it to the 'buyer'....


Most of these frauds are with watches well over £2k. If it's received by the authentication company and then sent to the buyer proof of delivery is out of the sellers remit. IMHO the first delivery address, the authoriser, should be proof of delivery for the seller. This is the grey area for a seller.


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