# Gold tarnish / patina on Lange 1



## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)

HI guys. My 2012 yellow gold Lange 1 has developed an orange tarnish / patina.

I've read that gold doesn't develop a patina, but it's from the alloy metals. I also read that collectors like to keep the patina, as it shows the watch hasn't been subjected to frequent polishing.

I have questions. Is this normal or did I somehow expose it to something? What are your opinions on the polish vs never polish debate?


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## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)




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## CFR (May 13, 2006)

Oh man, I'm jealous! No, that's not normal. I've seen only one yellow gold Lange that had darkened like that -- see below. It belonged to a guy in NYC. I was lusting after that watch and wanted to trade it for mine (same model but less patina). Did you keep it in plastic, or anywhere unusual? And to answer your question, personally I never polish, regardless of scratches/dings. I definitely wouldn't polish a watch with that sort of patina, but that's just me.


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

I wouldn't polish it away either!


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## weisscomposer (Dec 2, 2018)

Here is the picture OP posted of this Lange 1 when they first picked it up in 2012. Kinda cool to see the contrast after these eight years!

As someone very new to the watch world, I don't have anything nearly old enough to develop any kind of patina. The so-called German silver used in the movement supposedly darkens over time, and I'm looking forward to seeing if that's a noticeable change over the years.

If yellow gold darkening like that is as rare as it seems, I agree with the other posters that you should not have it polished/restored.


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## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)

Didn't keep it in plastic. I keep it in a multi watch winder (although it's not an automatic, obv) and was wondering if maybe fumes from the winder or something had reacted with the metal.

Trying to see if ive somehow damaged my watch, or if it's actually developed a "desirable" patina. Specifically, if I'm further damaging it by allowing the patina to stay.



CFR said:


> Oh man, I'm jealous! No, that's not normal. I've seen only one yellow gold Lange that had darkened like that -- see below. It belonged to a guy in NYC. I was lusting after that watch and wanted to trade it for mine (same model but less patina). Did you keep it in plastic, or anywhere unusual? And to answer your question, personally I never polish, regardless of scratches/dings. I definitely wouldn't polish a watch with that sort of patina, but that's just me.
> View attachment 15430603
> 
> View attachment 15430614


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## capitalEU (May 3, 2019)

Did you ask Lange?
Seems weird to me.


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## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)

Wow!! Amazing find. I forgot I'd posted that here. Yes, very interesting to see the contrast between them and now!



weisscomposer said:


> Here is the picture OP posted of this Lange 1 when they first picked it up in 2012. Kinda cool to see the contrast after these eight years!
> 
> As someone very new to the watch world, I don't have anything nearly old enough to develop any kind of patina. The so-called German silver used in the movement supposedly darkens over time, and I'm looking forward to seeing if that's a noticeable change over the years.
> 
> If yellow gold darkening like that is as rare as it seems, I agree with the other posters that you should not have it polished/restored.


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## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)

Looks exactly like mine.



CFR said:


> Oh man, I'm jealous! No, that's not normal. I've seen only one yellow gold Lange that had darkened like that -- see below. It belonged to a guy in NYC. I was lusting after that watch and wanted to trade it for mine (same model but less patina). Did you keep it in plastic, or anywhere unusual? And to answer your question, personally I never polish, regardless of scratches/dings. I definitely wouldn't polish a watch with that sort of patina, but that's just me.
> View attachment 15430603
> 
> View attachment 15430614


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## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)

I have an email into them. But it's been a few days since with no reply.


capitalEU said:


> Did you ask Lange?
> Seems weird to me.


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## wintershade (Jun 15, 2017)

Wow. That's awesome. I've only seen that level of patina on vintage pieces. My guess is there must be some kind of environmental exposure the watch experienced during your ownership which has caused the patina process to accelerate, but I'm not a metallurgist.

Here is a 1960s Vacheron which I inherited. It's never been polished and is (unusually) 14K gold. But it has similar patina but took 50+ years to get this way!


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## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)

Beautiful!



wintershade said:


> Wow. That's awesome. I've only seen that level of patina on vintage pieces. My guess is there must be some kind of environmental exposure the watch experienced during your ownership which has caused the patina process to accelerate, but I'm not a metallurgist.
> 
> Here is a 1960s Vacheron which I inherited. It's never been polished and is (unusually) 14K gold. But it has similar patina but took 50+ years to get this way!
> 
> ...


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## CFR (May 13, 2006)

cl0r0x70 said:


> Trying to see if ive somehow damaged my watch, or if it's actually developed a "desirable" patina. Specifically, if I'm further damaging it by allowing the patina to stay.


I don't think you're damaging anything. The patina is a layer or coating on the outside. You can always have it removed. It's not as if the metal is rotting away. As long as the dial/hands/movement look fine, it's all good.


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## poldino (Oct 4, 2017)

My wife has 2 Cartier purchased in 2017 from AD and virtually unworn. Both kept in a watchbox (that is not airtight) and in the dark.
One in yellow gold that has developed a lot of patina

















As you can see there is no patina on the caseback (that laid against a pillow, so less circulation of air) while patina on the sides of the case is very strong.








here it is how it looks under the loupe.

The red gold has developed no patina at all visible at naked eye, however if you look with a loupe:









it seems that there were a couple of "lumps of gold" or some other kind of imperfection or impurity that developed a dark halo.

I have more watches (both rose and yellow gold) with patina, but this is one of the strongest one, especially considering the relatively young age of the watch and the fact it has been preserved in good conditions together with other watches that developed almost no patina.

On white gold watches and jewelry the only patina I can see is when rhodium plated pieces are heavily worn and start showing yellowish patches, but this is a well known phenomenon.


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## Retumbo (Dec 10, 2019)

I'm not a metallurgist, but my best guess as to why some gold watches develop patina and others don't (especially in the same case) is that they were put away for awhile in a low ventilation area with some sort of "contaminant" on them that catalyses the process. This could be from hand lotion, aftershave, lemon juice from a drink garnish, etc.

Again this is purely conjecture, but the only other thing that would remotely make sense to me would be off-gassing from old glue from the case in which the watch is being stored.

It's possible (likely?) that either of these scenarios also has to be combined with some trace impurities introduced during the manufacturing process. Otherwise I imagine we'd see more patina'd gold.

The other other thing that would be a factor is how polluted the air is where you are storing your watches. If you're downstream of a coal plant, I'm guessing the Sulphur Dioxide alone would be enough to do do this.


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## poldino (Oct 4, 2017)

Retumbo said:


> I'm not a metallurgist, but my best guess as to why some gold watches develop patina and others don't (especially in the same case) is that they were put away for awhile in a low ventilation area with some sort of "contaminant" on them that catalyses the process. My guess is this could be from hand lotion, aftershave, lemon juice from a drink garnish, etc.
> 
> Again this is purely conjecture, but the only other thing that would remotely make sense to me would be off-gassing from old glue from the case in which the watch is being stored.
> 
> ...


I agree that all the factors you mentioned are good candidates, however my case posted above proves there must be something else:

no contamination on the watch
watches with and without patina were stored together for an extended period of time (so no difference in contaminants in the box nor in the air pollution)

So at least in my case it is for sure some difference (impurity?) in the alloy metals or in the finishing made in the factory.


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## SISL (Jan 6, 2018)

Sorry to bring that back to the top, but that patina is pretty common on vintage gold coins. Apparently it's called Boscoreale patina and it's often due to exposure to sulfur. It would stand to reason that a gold watch kept in a matchbox would be exposed to residual sulfur.





Patina, Grading & Quality of Ancient Coins - Calgary Coin


Patina, Grading and Quality of Ancient Coins - Calgary Coin.



www.calgarycoin.com












A Guide to Toned Gold Coins


It's not just copper and silver coins that tone - gold coins tone too! Surprisingly, many coin collectors remain unaware that gold even tones at all. While gold has little chemical reactivity compared to some of its metallic brother elements, gold is not completely inert. A quick chemistry...




www.silverdollarco.net


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## Dunnej (May 4, 2020)

Don't polish it! It looks so good as is. The patina is such a unique story to your watch.


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