# Suunto Spartan Ultra



## breefmark

Meet the all new *Suunto Spartan Ultra*, available July 2016!

Key Specs:

Colour touchscreen 
Glass: sapphire crystal 
Barometric altitude 
Battery life (GPS active): 20-200 h 
Weight: 73-77 g 
Strap material: Silicone 
Heart rate requires heart rate belt 

Pricing:

Spartan Ultra: 649€ (699€ HR) 
Spartan Ultra Titanium: 749€ (799€ HR) 

The watches were advertised in a print mailing by a German sports retailer. Their webshop already lists the Spartan Ultra as new but currently out of stock, but you need deep links for accessing the information. I would post the links but unfortunately I'm not allowed to due to forum restrictions for new members :roll:

Anyway, attaching images seems to work, so here you go:*

Spartan Ultra black*







*
Spartan Ultra white *







*
Spartan Ultra Titanium black*








*Spartan Ultra Titanium grey*


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## HIKESOLO

Sign me up for a Titanium Black.


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## RandM

HIKESOLO said:


> Sign me up for a Titanium Black.


Ditto my friend.


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## Red PeeKay

Ahhh crap, just when I thought I was done with buying more Suunto's they have to go and release this model! Does this model log travel like the ambit and traverse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## karokajoka

Sigh....there goes another $600-$700


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## paulteini

Awesome! Glad I didn't have to wait for the DCR post GZ-S


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## newtonfb

I'm assuming this is the ambit4? 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## HIKESOLO

newtonfb said:


> I'm assuming this is the ambit4?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Well it sure as heck isn't the Fenix 4


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## newtonfb

HIKESOLO said:


> Well it sure as heck isn't the Fenix 4


Ha thanks for the clarification....

Price seems a bit much compared to the peak or fenix series ?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## HIKESOLO

newtonfb said:


> Ha thanks for the clarification....
> 
> Price seems a bit much compared to the peak or fenix series ?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Fenix 3 Titanium is $800 right?


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## silentvoyager

No GPS antenna bulge? This is concerning.


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## paulteini

breefmark said:


> The watches were advertised in a print mailing by a German sports retailer. Their webshop already lists the Spartan Ultra as new but currently out of stock, but you need deep links for accessing the information. I would post the links but unfortunately I'm not allowed to due to forum restrictions for new members :roll:


What is the name of the German sports retailer?


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## HIKESOLO

silentvoyager said:


> No GPS antenna bulge? This is concerning.


I think that was inevitable. I honestly didn't see a scenario in which Suunto would keep that. I don't think the majority of users dive into GPS accuracy as deeply as the folks who visit these forums. I think the average consumer wants a sexy package (that's what she said) packed with features. I think the goal is to move forward with improving the tech that they can fit into the smallest package possible.

I used to have a large ugly antenna sticking off the hood of my car. Now I have an antenna built into my rear window. (OK this is a bad example because I drive a Jeep that still has the ugly antenna, but my wife's doesn't, haha). That's just the way tech goes...smaller, lighter, faster, etc...


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## newtonfb

HIKESOLO said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Fenix 3 Titanium is $800 right?


Yes. But the non-titanium is still $750 while the regular Fenix 3 is $500. Also the Peak was $500.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## HIKESOLO

Well, to be fair you have to compare this to the Sapphire Peak. That's $650 w/ HRM and doesn't include titanium or a color screen and I'm assuming won't be as feature-rich. 

The Fenix 3 Sapphire with HRM is $650 - once it included a titanium element it went up to $800 (and that's without HRM). If you improve the materials, the price rises. Don't get me wrong, I think all of these watches are a bit overpriced, but you have to compare apples to apples.


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## user_none

Red PeeKay said:


> Ahhh crap, just when I thought I was done with buying more Suunto's they have to go and release this model! Does this model log travel like the ambit and traverse?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Log travel? The only model in that space is the Kailash. Damn, typing that out just made me realize this Spartan Ultra is Kailash inspired, which I reallllllllly like.


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## zvojan

hmm...this means that all are saphire glass, but not all titanium?


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## HIKESOLO

zvojan said:


> hmm...this means that all are saphire glass, but not all titanium?


That's my guess.


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## paulteini

Check out page 20 of this flier, there is an advertisement in German that you all may like. Rough Google translation:

PROGRESSBEYOND LOGICSUUNTO SPARTAN ULTRA- COLOUR DISPLAY WITH TOUCH SREEN AND ADDITION 3 BUTTONS- 24/7 ACTIVITY - NEWS OF THE DIAL- COMPARE & PLANNING WITH COLLEAGUES / GROUPS- DISCOVER NEW ROUTES WITH HEAT MAPS- FIND AND CONNECTING WITH A COACH- BATTERY USEFUL LIVES OF 20H - 200H- DEPTH ANALYSIS TRAINING- PERSONAL RACE RECORDS

AB June 2016 AVAILABLE


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

paulteini said:


> Awesome! Glad I didn't have to wait for the DCR post GZ-S


Had that data for a few days now, but it's not official yet and something might still change / be wrong about it. So, couldn't well post it myself, even as I was just waiting for someone else to find it. Explains why I was so insistent DCR wouldn't be the first, no?


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## petmic

Well, my first impression is exactly what i assumed. Sadly, the market has driven Suunto away from its roots. This new watch looks more like a fashion piece than a serious instrument. The colour display provides zero advantage to well proved B/W type. It looks cool but i guess this is not something most of us trail runners and outdoor driven people really want. Same goes to touch control. There is no way i will be replacing my Ambit3 peak with this new watch - even if Suunto decides not to update its firmware (altitude profile and better navigation is the most needed upgrades for me).


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## Pirk

I think you have to target a wider audience to survive. I have many friends who bought the Fenix 3 that could have gone with a cheap gps watch based on how much they work out. But they like the statement this watch makes:stylish, rugged and smart. This has made the Fenix 3 sell in the hundreds of thousands. I understand Suunto want a bigger piece of that. And then it has to make it unit technically more superior than the F3. And the screen really makes it look several years more modern. If they continued with. Black and white screen this would not be the case.


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## Teriemer

Pirk said:


> I think you have to target a wider audience to survive. I have many friends who bought the Fenix 3 that could have gone with a cheap gps watch based on how much they work out. But they like the statement this watch makes:stylish, rugged and smart. This has made the Fenix 3 sell in the hundreds of thousands. I understand Suunto want a bigger piece of that. And then it has to make it unit technically more superior than the F3. And the screen really makes it look several years more modern. If they continued with. Black and white screen this would not be the case.


It's gonna be interesting to see how this one will compete against 735XT...?

The new Spartan definitely looks very cool.


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## MiGRcz

Awesome watch. However no optical heart rate sensor for 24/7 measurement?


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## Glajda

Touch screen. Oh, no!
Was really looking forward to this and was ready to purchase but now I'm not sure any more.
Also don't like the price tag.

Will have to wait for the review to see the features and to see how the touch screen is in real life.


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## breefmark

paulteini said:


> What is the name of the German sports retailer?


It's Sport Scheck.


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## breefmark

Here are the links to the retailer's product pages for the Spartan Ultra (as plain text due to forum restrictions, please copy&paste). The content is in German but you'll get the point. However, no complete list of specs is given...

sportscheck.com/suunto-spartan-ultra-multifunktionsuhr-groesse-einheitsgroesse-p241996001-F040/schwarz/
sportscheck.com/suunto-spartan-ultra-hr-multifunktionsuhr-groesse-einheitsgroesse-p242009001-F040/schwarz/
sportscheck.com/suunto-spartan-ultra-titanium-multifunktionsuhr-p241995-F040/schwarz/
sportscheck.com/suunto-spartan-ultra-titanium-hr-multifunktionsuhr-groesse-einheitsgroesse-p241994001-F040/schwarz/


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## breefmark

zvojan said:


> hmm...this means that all are saphire glass, but not all titanium?


Exactly. The bezel is either made of titanium or brushed metal.


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## gianky73

petmic said:


> Well, my first impression is exactly what i assumed. Sadly, the market has driven Suunto away from its roots. This new watch looks more like a fashion piece than a serious instrument. The colour display provides zero advantage to well proved B/W type. It looks cool but i guess this is not something most of us trail runners and outdoor driven people really want. Same goes to touch control. There is no way i will be replacing my Ambit3 peak with this new watch - even if Suunto decides not to update its firmware (altitude profile and better navigation is the most needed upgrades for me).


same my thoughts, I hope for an upgrade fw for my Peak...


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## petmic

Pirk said:


> *I think you have to target a wider audience to survive. I have many friends who bought the Fenix 3 that could have gone with a cheap gps watch based on how much they work out. But they like the statement this watch makes:stylish, rugged and smart*. This has made the Fenix 3 sell in the hundreds of thousands. I understand Suunto want a bigger piece of that. And then it has to make it unit technically more superior than the F3. And the screen really makes it look several years more modern. If they continued with. Black and white screen this would not be the case.


I agree. However, it is very sad that Suunto have to listen to the crowd that wear the watch as a fashion item rather than the crow who actually USE the watch for what it has been designed for (or the original intention was for).


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## Garda

Nice looking watches. But why the "flat tire" at the bottom of the screen ? 
Reminds me Motorola´s Moto 360.


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## antjoh

Good looking and I'd probably buy one if it wasn't for the touch screen and the (what it looks like) proprietary lugs.
It would also suprise me if the color screen looks that crisp in real life.


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## HIKESOLO

petmic said:


> I agree. However, it is very sad that Suunto have to listen to the crowd that wear the watch as a fashion item rather than the crow who actually USE the watch for what it has been designed for (or the original intention was for).


I'd like to know what sport you are into that this watch wouldn't be an amazing tool for. They obviously had to find a middle ground and I think they did a decent job. They are not going to make an ugly watch that only concentrated on function. They had to find a nice mix of functionality and look.

In a separate thought...

Regarding the touchscreen, I think they are giving us the option to use touchscreen OR buttons. So I don't see how anyone could complain about this part of it.


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## Miszka

Does anyone know the physcial dimmensions of the watch? Did it leak anywhere? It seems gigantic


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## primus

miszkafiszman said:


> Does anyone know the physcial dimmensions


and screen resolution of the watch?


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## Glajda

HIKESOLO said:


> I'd like to know what sport you are into that this watch wouldn't be an amazing tool for. They obviously had to find a middle ground and I think they did a decent job. They are not going to make an ugly watch that only concentrated on function. They had to find a nice mix of functionality and look.
> 
> In a separate thought...
> 
> Regarding the touchscreen, I think they are giving us the option to use touchscreen OR buttons. So I don't see how anyone could complain about this part of it.


We'll see about that. Ambits have 5 buttons, Spartan Ultra has 3, so I don't think you can just turn the touchscreen off.
Anyway, add some moisture on the touchscreen and funny things may start to happen...


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## petmic

Glajda said:


> We'll see about that. Ambits have 5 buttons, Spartan Ultra has 3, so I don't think you can just turn the touchscreen off.
> Anyway, add some moisture on the touchscreen and funny things may start to happen...


touch technology does not cope well with moisture/water (unless it is inductive but this isn't used with displays).

I think the touch screen + button will work in a similar way as in garmin forerunners - some functions will be touch only (navigating in the menu) and some buttons only (start/stop, lap button). If that's really the case than this watch will be a big no for us who need to use thick gloves during winter time.


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## WEM

That are good news - nice watch with a lot of wished features.

I tink that's a force touch like used in the apple watch - these watch also combines sapphire glass with touch.


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## Jeff_C

Based on looks, I'm not too interested. Reminds me of the "ladies" Lumi watch. Not my taste.


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## Miszka

petmic said:


> touch technology does not cope well with moisture/water (unless it is inductive but this isn't used with displays). I think the touch screen + button will work in a similar way as in garmin forerunners - some functions will be touch only (navigating in the menu) and some buttons only (start/stop, lap button). If that's really the case than this watch will be a big no for us who need to use thick gloves during winter time.


What keeps me hoping is that they tested in the cold, cold Finland. It's not Southern California. Snow, gloves on, lots of rain (the land of the 1000 lakes, remember!). Maybe they found a formula to nail it?


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## backcountry

petmic said:


> Well, my first impression is exactly what i assumed. Sadly, the market has driven Suunto away from its roots. This new watch looks more like a fashion piece than a serious instrument. The colour display provides zero advantage to well proved B/W type. It looks cool but i guess this is not something most of us trail runners and outdoor driven people really want. Same goes to touch control. There is no way i will be replacing my Ambit3 peak with this new watch - even if Suunto decides not to update its firmware (altitude profile and better navigation is the most needed upgrades for me).


Yeah, I agree 100%! This thing looks more like a Timex or a Forerunner on steroids than a Suunto designed watch. Hopefully they keep the awesome looking "thug-ass" looks of the Traverse Alpha and "un-simplify" it somewhat or at least make it a bit more flexible with regards to the auto-ons and stuff for power users!


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## bruceames

miszkafiszman said:


> Does anyone know the physcial dimmensions of the watch? Did it leak anywhere? It seems gigantic


Can't be that big. According to the specs in the OP, it only weighs 73-77 grams. That's less than the Suunto Sport, Traverse or Vertical.

I knew Suunto would cave under pressure from their competition and put aesthetics and size first. Maybe I'll be surprised and this bezel antenna will be just as accurate, but I doubt it. Fortunately I have no need for more features other than what I already have from the Peak. A 4th field would be nice though, which this watch seems to have. Would be nice to have both altitude and speed in the first watch field for my trail runs.

Also price seems too high. I'll be using the Peak for at least another year, while I wait to see what this watch does in specs, price and performance (especially GPS, but also battery life).


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## newtonfb

bruceames said:


> Can't be that big. According to the specs in the OP, it only weighs 73-77 grams. That's less than the Suunto Sport, Traverse or Vertical.
> 
> I knew Suunto would cave under pressure from their competition and put aesthetics and size first. Maybe I'll be surprised and this bezel antenna will be just as accurate, but I doubt it. Fortunately I have no need for more features other than what I already have from the Peak. A 4th field would be nice though, which this watch seems to have. Would be nice to have both altitude and speed in the first watch field for my trail runs.
> 
> Also price seems too high. I'll be using the Peak for at least another year, while I wait to see what this watch does in specs, price and performance (especially GPS, but also battery life).


The watch does claim 200hr hour battery life like the Peak. Hopefully it holds true. The bigger problem I have is the price tag. I may just keep using my peak until the fenix 4 comes out.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Miszka

They must expand the ecosystem in the coming months. 649 euros is not much competitive against the basic non-sapphire Fenix3 (almost half the price on amazon). But it's a common strategy to start with the premium product. Stay tuned for Spartan Sport and Spartan Run.


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## bruceames

newtonfb said:


> The watch does claim 200hr hour battery life like the Peak. Hopefully it holds true. The bigger problem I have is the price tag. I may just keep using my peak until the fenix 4 comes out.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I yet can't imagine myself going to Garmin. The F3 isn't any more accurate under heavy tree cover than the latest Suunto bezel antenna watches, and I don't want to have to worry about the watch freezing up during a race. But you never know. If the F4 outperforms this, then I would consider it.


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## wydim

wwow, my first impressions are : it's beautiful.

I am one of those user that are all about functionnality. I bike, run, swin, trek, climb, snowshoe with my Ambit2. But I'm also happy that it has color screen and is beautiful enough to wear everyday. To the unhappy folks about the color screen: we cannot continue with the same black and white display like a hand calculator! things are evolving and if they can promise 200h of battery life like the A3 peak, all the better!

The only thing I'm unsure about is the touch screen during winter sports (snowshoeing). Basic functions (view scrolling, start/stop, laps) should be accessible with buttons


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## bruceames

I like the color screen and also that it has a touch screen. Changing display fields by touching the screen sounds a lot easier then pressing the side button (which doesn't press so easily on the Peak). And the watch does look very good.

I'm not really against this watch at all. We don't know yet most of what it can do. But the first thing I look for is GPS accuracy and then battery life. I like to think that many Suunto users value their brand due to its high level of performance and would be very sensitive to a downgrade in GPS performance. Under demanding conditions there seems to be a wide performance delta between bezel and patch antennas and is limited by the laws of physics. 

If the watch only weighs 73 grams then I am also skeptical about Peak level battery life, especially with a color display.


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## morey000

_Once again- Suunto is overseeing a brilliant marketing roll-out plan. 

_Really. WTF is going on with Suunto. Why not announce this flagship new product at a big show, with media present, and have quick-look reviews posted by every sports tech reviewers all on the same day?

or, did this german company violate their plan?

Good looking watch tho'. If it's essentially a fully capable multisport watch like the A3P/Vert in that package, and it works. I'm interested.
Any info on how thick it is? I want something that fits under a dress shirt. 15mm


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## cerzet

bruceames said:


> I like the color screen and also that it has a touch screen. Changing display fields by touching the screen sounds a lot easier then pressing the side button (which doesn't press so easily on the Peak).


I've now tried the touch screen of a Garmin Vivoactive and a Forerunner 610. Based on this I'd agree, it _sounds_ a lot easier. But it's not, I really didn't like them at all. I prefer buttons, a lot.

I'm ok with color, if the contrast is ok and the screen/font big enough for sports use and middle-age eyes. The best yet is my Wahoo Elemnt for biking, a good 2nd is Polar V800 for running. Not so impressed with the b&w screen on my Vertical, but I use it because Polar has other problems. Based on what the Vivoactive screen looks like in Garmin's advertising compared to what it is in real life (a dim POS), I'd be very careful to draw any conclusions about screen greatness.

Price? Ha, no way, not me  By the time it drops 200 and then only if the screen is really fantastic, maybe.


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## AndiH71

Suunto is so tiring, no innovation. After 4 Suunto Watches, i think that i must search for a new Outdoor-Watch. And this is not Suunto!

Best regards from 
Germany
Andi


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## bruceames

cerzet said:


> I've now tried the touch screen of a Garmin Vivoactive and a Forerunner 610. Based on this I'd agree, it _sounds_ a lot easier. But it's not, I really didn't like them at all. I prefer buttons, a lot.


Thinking about it a little, you are probably right. You have to look at and accurately touch a small area watch face while bouncing up and down (could be dangerous on trails). But I notice they also have the buttons so this may be that you have the option to do either?


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## petmic

cerzet said:


> I've now tried the touch screen of a Garmin Vivoactive and a Forerunner 610. Based on this I'd agree, it _sounds_ a lot easier. But it's not, I really didn't like them at all. I prefer buttons, a lot.


exactly...what advantage provides a touch screen on sport watch except for being seen as a cool feature by the what i call a fashion crowd?? i guess absolutely none...however it is the cool factor the crowd wants and is willing to pay for...sad, really sad


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## Pirk

Funny how quick you are to jump at conclusions. Wait until official info is available before giving your final judgement


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## user_none

I'm not one for a color screen on my outdoors watch, and the antenna bulge on the current Amit3 line doesn't bother me in the least. However, the Peak is too darned big to wear (at least for me) on a daily basis. The Spartan Ultra looks damn good, like a watch I'd wear out and about. If the battery life really pans out, and the GPS accuracy are on par with the A3, this could be one to sway me. Regardless, my A3 Peak Sapphire does everything I need and with rock solid reliability, so no burning desire to switch.


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## RandM

I never owned the original Ambit, the reviews were mixed. I got on the bus with the Ambit 2 and loved it. Prior to that, I had tried Garmin, Soleus and Timex and was not smitten. I liked the 3 and Traverse even more but if I was forced to liquidate my collection, the last one to go would be the 3 Peak. I cannot wait to try the Spartan Ultra. If it is not a step up, off to the Sales Forum it goes. However, I am confident that it will be a keeper. 

The truth of the matter is that there was a time when the technology of the Garmin Forerunner 25 would have delighted us. Distance and Pace....who would have thought? I cannot even say that i use all the features on the Peak to their maximum degree of utilization. 

The underlying premise of advances in technology is that things will improve. Let us not rush to judgment until we have had the future In our hands and put a few miles on it.


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## HIKESOLO

RandM said:


> I never owned the original Ambit, the reviews were mixed. I got on the bus with the Ambit 2 and loved it. Prior to that, I had tried Garmin, Soleus and Timex and was not smitten. I liked the 3 and Traverse even more but if I was forced to liquidate my collection, the last one to go would be the 3 Peak. I cannot wait to try the Spartan Ultra. If it is not a step up, off to the Sales Forum it goes. However, I am confident that it will be a keeper.
> 
> The truth of the matter is that there was a time when the technology of the Garmin Forerunner 25 would have delighted us. Distance and Pace....who would have thought? I cannot even say that i use all the features on the Peak to their maximum degree of utilization.
> 
> The underlying premise of advances in technology is that things will improve. Let us not rush to judgment until we have had the future In our hands and put a few miles on it.


I agree...judging this based off a leak that doesn't really give a ton of detail is silly to me. We literally know next to nothing about this watch.


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## esmarquette

HIKESOLO said:


> I agree...judging this based off a leak that doesn't really give a ton of detail is silly to me. We literally know next to nothing about this watch.


Agreed. But so far the touch screen and color screen doesn't really appeal to me.

Still holding out for all the Ambit3 multisport features in the Traverse Stealth body, which has the ruggedness I'm looking for.


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## John Dillon

Agreed.

no real stats, or info.

wish list for myself only would be Ambit level innards/ability, Color Display that could toggle to B/W for viewing in bright sunlight would be nice.


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## HIKESOLO

esmarquette said:


> Agreed. But so far the touch screen and color screen doesn't really appeal to me.
> 
> Still holding out for all the Ambit3 multisport features in the Traverse Stealth body, which has the ruggedness I'm looking for.


I have the Stealth. I love it. Really nice watch. If I were going to make my Frankenwatch it would be the Stealth body, with lugs with screws like the Fenix 3 which would allow us to easily swap straps, and the internals of whatever the Spartan will be. I love the ruggedness of the Stealth, but hate the plastic lugs. They damage easily.


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## anto1980

No screws on the bezel! I would like to see the back of the case.


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## Pirk

From FCC


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## checker3

Pirk said:


> View attachment 8227674
> 
> From FCC


Seems, that you have some more news! Come on, we're all very excited. Espresso???


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## Pirk

Got it from this page https://www.facebook.com/groups/SuuntoAmbit/permalink/1037271009698295/


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## gianky73

For me the most important things are gps accuracy and reliability... i hope that this spartan is not like a super-buggy fenix 3...


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## vernSL

I'm curious if it will accept aftermarket bands.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## paul1928

bruceames said:


> I yet can't imagine myself going to Garmin. The F3 isn't any more accurate under heavy tree cover than the latest Suunto bezel antenna watches


To take that comment further, Garmin have been doing bezel antennas for years now and it took three major hardware releases (and a bunch of subsequent firmware updates) to get it right on the Fenix.

For Suunto's first hardware release with its first firmware release (I'm thinking the Vertical with v1.0.0 - which I tested for a few weeks) to be similar to the Fenix 3 with v23764234 firmware is not only impressive, but also suggests Suunto still have room to tweak their bezel-mounted antenna GPS performance further.


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## newtonfb

Anyone have an idea when the embargo lifts ?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## TS149

newtonfb said:


> Anyone have an idea when the embargo lifts ?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Gerald could probably tell you, but then he'd have to kill you. Probably not worth it. ;-)


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## RandM

TS149 said:


> Gerald could probably tell you, but then he'd have to kill you. Probably not worth it. ;-)


Gerald kind of has that Shibumi vibe. I would be happy with him telling us in his own sweet time.


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## bruceames

paul1928 said:


> To take that comment further, Garmin have been doing bezel antennas for years now and it took three major hardware releases (and a bunch of subsequent firmware updates) to get it right on the Fenix.
> 
> For Suunto's first hardware release with its first firmware release (I'm thinking the Vertical with v1.0.0 - which I tested for a few weeks) to be similar to the Fenix 3 with v23764234 firmware is not only impressive, but also suggests Suunto still have room to tweak their bezel-mounted antenna GPS performance further.


Didn't the Suunto X9/X10 series have bezel antennas?


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## raducanmihai

A touch screen might not be a problem if they redesigned the interface in such a way so during a move you only need to use the buttons. At this moment, I can't see how they'd do that (based on my previous experiences with Ambit 2 and 3), but who knows? 

The lack of an "external" antenna is more concerning. Even if I am among the ones who asked for a more confortable watch, I would only consider it if it's on par with my Ambit 3 from a GPS accuracy point of view. Based on Traverse reportings, that will not be the case...


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

bruceames said:


> Didn't the Suunto X9/X10 series have bezel antennas?


Yes. And they were reliable in their fixes... especially in their fixes' taking 10 minutes to actually get the location. But then, that was what, 10 years ago? Was in China with an X9 in 2004. So, 12 years.

Let me say this on the timing: Something should come soon (obviously), but that one ad which says "available from June" is pretty sure not to have the time right.

(And boy, did RandM set me on a tangent with the mention of Shibumi. I had just had a cup of matcha, too  )


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## newtonfb

I thought June was correct since that's when suunto is sponsoring the big triathlon event? Or something along those lines ?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Red PeeKay

Jeff_C said:


> Based on looks, I'm not too interested. Reminds me of the "ladies" Lumi watch. Not my taste.


And didn't that model just work out so well for them! Mind you, female friends of mine just loved that watch, not as large and masculine. They complain there are no "ladies" watches now in the Suunto range. Guess they have a point there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## paulteini

We haven't seen the left side of the watch yet. There is still a chance that the Ultra has 5 buttons. Sounds like more details are on the way... Perhaps they will actually come from Suunto or a legit news / review site. Maybe Gerald will fill us in soon.


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## Teriemer

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Let me say this on the timing: Something should come soon (obviously), but that one ad which says "available from June" is pretty sure not to have the time right.


I think this leak happened due to Garmin releasing the new 735XT. That watch caught us all - none had seen that coming; including Suunto. So to counterstrike and keep attention on the Ambit successor, they had to do it.


----------



## Joakim Agren

Pirk said:


> View attachment 8227674
> 
> From FCC


I guess this confirms it then only 3 buttons. I wonder how that is going to work to operate all the functions when you have wet hands or when it is raining or when using the watch while swimming? Since I presume the touch screen won't work well under such circumstances. My experience with touch screen operation when using the Tissot T-Touch is not the greatest, one of the main reasons I sold it was the frustration with operating the touch functions when wet. Also I did not appreciate all the finger stains on the glass and sapphire glass is even more prone to attract finger stains when touched and also those stains are a little more difficult to remove then on mineral crystal glass. So call me a sceptic with regards to the touch screen function on this new Spartan Ultra...:rodekaart

Will be interesting to know if that color display is the same transflective Memory In Pixel type as found in the fenix 3! Love the display on my fenix 3 Sapphire! Recently Casio released their WSD-F10 smart watch that is Android based with a touch screen display and that one also have that cut out at the bottom part as can be seen in this picture:









That watch comes with a regular 320X300 pixels TFT LCD display with capacitive touch function. Is it the same in this new Suunto Spartan?:think:

Overall looks to be an attractive looking watch this new Suunto. Will be looking forward to reading DC Rainmakers and Gerald's reviews of this one!:-!

Big downside is of course the high price!:rodekaart

Or perhaps we are hyping this one to much? Perhaps Suunto abandoned the idea of the Ambit peak do it all thinking and are now only interesting in making segmented products for different activities? If so then this can not be seen as the new "Ambit 4 Peak". And if that is the case then it is definitely no threat to the Garmin fenix 3 either! Why is it called Spartan? Here in Sweden if something is "spartansk" it is something very basic and simple the very opposite of luxury. And yet this one is sold as the top of the line premium offering?:-d


----------



## Miszka

Teriemer said:


> I think this leak happened due to Garmin releasing the new 735XT. That watch caught us all - none had seen that coming; including Suunto. So to counterstrike and keep attention on the Ambit successor, they had to do it.


I disagree that it's a direct competitor to 735xt. It's more of a Fenix4 one-upper. Spartan is made of premium materials; apple watch like display; social functionality on board; business acceptable looks. 735xt is a lightweight workhorse. I still hope they will be Spartan Sport, made of durable plastic for half the price


----------



## Joakim Agren

miszkafiszman said:


> I disagree that it's a direct competitor to 735xt. It's more of a Fenix4 one-upper. Spartan is made of premium materials; apple watch like display; social functionality on board; business acceptable looks. 735xt is a lightweight workhorse. I still hope they will be Spartan Sport, made of durable plastic for half the price


Apple watch uses a OLED display, given the spec of 20-200 hour battery life when using the GPS on this new Suunto Spartan I doubt it comes with an OLED.


----------



## Miszka

Joakim Agren said:


> Apple watch uses a OLED display, given the spec of 20-200 hour battery life when using the GPS on this new Suunto Spartan I doubt it comes with an OLED.


I was judging from the marketing materials the AMBITION behind the display, not the actual specs. They clearly aim to wow the potential buyers with colours and resolution; it looks remarkably close to the famed concept: https://www.behance.net/gallery/28679969/Smartwatch-redesign-concept-UI


----------



## Miszka

Joakim Agren said:


> Why is it called Spartan? Here in Sweden if something is "spartansk" it is something very basic and simple the very opposite of luxury. And yet this one is sold as the top of the line premium offering?:-d


Didn't you notice the popularity of "spartan" races=obstacle races? Even my mother is running one this year  To create a watch for weekend warriors is much more lucrative than to create a watch sturdy watch for us, the simple mountain folk.


----------



## Joakim Agren

Miszka said:


> Didn't you notice the popularity of "spartan" races=obstacle races? Even my mother is running one this year  To create a watch for weekend warriors is much more lucrative than to create a watch sturdy watch for us, the simple mountain folk.











LOL:-d:-d:-d


----------



## neldiogo

Just did remote session with suunto support and they confirmed that the leak was a mistake from the German store. Announce date should be 7-June


----------



## WEM

neldiogo said:


> Just did remote session with suunto support and they confirmed that the leak was a mistake from the German store. Announce date should be 7-June


Hahahaha - yes, the store was not planned. The Gigathlon press map also?


----------



## starks

Joakim Agren said:


> Why is it called Spartan? Here in Sweden if something is "spartansk" it is something very basic and simple the very opposite of luxury. And yet this one is sold as the top of the line premium offering?:-d


From the dictionary

adjective1.
Also, Spartanic [spahr-tan-ik] ofor relating to Sparta or its people.
2.suggestive of the ancient Spartans; sternlydisciplined and rigorously simple, frugal, oraustere.
3.brave; undaunted.

noun
4.a native or inhabitant of Sparta.
5.a person of Spartan characteristics.

----

As you can see it also means it has Spartan people's characteristics which are "Brave and undaunted". I think it is a great name. For example, Spartathlon is definitely one of the hardest and most respected ultramarathons in the world. There are other examples such as the Michigan Spartans basketball team etc.

As for the watch, we need more info. I'm concerned about the touch screen and gps antenna. If it has the superior accuracy like A3 Peak and we have the option of doing most things with the buttons, then I'd be very happy.


----------



## Jeff_C

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Yes. And they were reliable in their fixes... especially in their fixes' taking 10 minutes to actually get the location. But then, that was what, 10 years ago? Was in China with an X9 in 2004. So, 12 years.
> 
> Let me say this on the timing: Something should come soon (obviously), but that one ad which says "available from June" is pretty sure not to have the time right.
> 
> (And boy, did RandM set me on a tangent with the mention of Shibumi. I had just had a cup of matcha, too  )


I still have my X9. Lol 10 minutes could be generous lol


----------



## Oberkfell

I wonder if this will put an end to software updates for the ambit line. 

As soon as they release this monster, they should allow the vertical, peak, and traverse to share the same software.


----------



## wydim

Oberkfell said:


> I wonder if this will put an end to software updates for the ambit line.
> 
> As soon as they release this monster, they should allow the vertical, peak, and traverse to share the same software.


you my friend litterally dream in color.


----------



## arnea

This watch has completely new hardware and software. Even the location of charging/communication port is different


----------



## stoaty

mmm - first time post, but been lurking for a while - waiting on the latest option from Suunto but this wasn't expected.

I'm the sort of person who wants the basics done well:

1) Accurate GPS
2) Excellent battery life for ultras (I'm slow so need long battery life!)
3) Ability to upload a route for on watch navigation 
4) Barometric altimeter

What I don't need is for my watch to link to facebook / tell my secretary where I am / make tea / buy stocks and shares / turn my oven on.

The Suunto watches seemed to follow my general preferences and I had high hopes that the Spartan Ultra would be 'my watch' but it seems to be competing more with the Fenix 3, and the concept of a touch screen just seems to be a huge mistake for an outdoor watch (perhaps it will work better than I imagine). So where to go from here? I'm almost thinking that I should wait for the launch and then hope that I can pick up an Ambit 3 cheap, but a better screen for navigation would be nice.

Do people think that there is a chance that the touchscreen might actually be usable in the wet / when you are sweating like crazy?


----------



## Pirk

I hope you can use the buttons for tasks required during workouts and the touch screen for increase ease of setting settings, reading sms etc. Regarding touch and sweat the Vivoactive HR looks like i handles this well so I guess it is possible to make it work when the screen is wet.


----------



## roots_n_rocks

it looks like suunto 735xt to me...


----------



## morey000

stoaty said:


> ....
> 
> Do people think that there is a chance that the touchscreen might actually be usable in the wet / when you are sweating like crazy?


I think what is reasonable to expect, is that most of the critical functions will be handled by the buttons. Start/stop/pause/reset. selecting and changing sport modes (like in a multisport event) and scrolling through screens during an event (although my guess is the last one might be a touch screen function).

a touch screen might make it easier to scroll through things like setup menus and such. functions that would mostly be done in your house, not during activities. It still can be a handy feature for all the non-sport related smart-watch capabilities it might have.

Suunto has proven to be pretty good on the user interface side of things to date. I won't knock it yet.

Based on the images, it looks like the watch has some nice functions. Firstly- a clean, colorful display. Apparently some new more complex recovery tracking algorithms. Multisport tracking and summary display. Given the one ad where it shows a big wave and a guy in a wetsuit - presumably OWS tracking, And finally! **4** variables per display! Plus- an outside display ring (on the HR display image).

I'm expecting a nice, clean, professional looking multisport smart watch. that's what it takes to stay in the game these days. Hopefully the extra time they took in delivering it, will solidify Suunto's reputation at building solid, reliable devices. Not like the basket case that the Fenix 3 was when it first came out. _Although- much better now after ~80 firmware updates._


----------



## backcountry

HIKESOLO said:


> I have the Stealth. I love it. Really nice watch. If I were going to make my Frankenwatch it would be the Stealth body, with lugs with screws like the Fenix 3 which would allow us to easily swap straps, and the internals of whatever the Spartan will be. I love the ruggedness of the Stealth, but hate the plastic lugs. They damage easily.


Amen brother! I couldn't agree more, the Traverse Alpha Stealth is by far the best looking GPS watch they have ever built. The thing feels like a tank on my wrist but my only gripe is the fact that it uses the far too simplistic base Traverse software (the moon phase and shot business being the only difference, big deal). I've been sending them emails to ask them to bridge the gaps with toggle features while carrying over the more advanced NAV features from the Ambit3 (so power users can turn on the more complex stuff and novice users can keep it as simple as possible). You may want to do the same, strength in numbers.


----------



## backcountry

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Yes. And they were reliable in their fixes... especially in their fixes' taking 10 minutes to actually get the location. But then, that was what, 10 years ago?


Were they accurate? I had the X9 and the X10 and the locks were just pathetic. They took forever and the post-route logs suffered from a crazy amount of signal bounce where they just wandered off for no rhyme or reason. That said, I so miss the alarm point feature and until this month (when they cranked out the Traverse Stealths) the red backlighting. The Ambits were a massive step up in that department.


----------



## Oberkfell

Didn't want to start a new topic, but other than triathletes what is the point of the multi-sport function. I have never used it on my sport, and bought the traverse over the vertical because I seriously don't get it.


----------



## antjoh

Oberkfell said:


> Didn't want to start a new topic, but other than triathletes what is the point of the multi-sport function. I have never used it on my sport, and bought the traverse over the vertical because I seriously don't get it.


I use a simple multisport set up while at the gym. First segment for warmup on a rowing machine and then change sport to weight lifting.
Certainly not necessary but it saves me a few button presses 

Edit: When I think about it, a multi sport switch don't have to be between two sports. It could equally be between settings instead. I.e. the first sport records with high accuracy (eating battery) while the second sport records with low accuracy. That *could* (maybe perhaps) be good to have if you feel you suddenly want to save some battery.


----------



## Oberkfell

Makes sense now. 

But, this 50 year old fossil will probably just press record and hope for the best.


----------



## patricu

If you look at the closeup, it looks like bottom button is a dial.


----------



## newtonfb

patricu said:


> If you look at the closeup, it looks like bottom button is a dial.


dont know what you see, all the buttons look the same.


----------



## checker3

View attachment 8245002

I don't know the newer suuntos like traverse and Co. But compared to the A3 there seems to be a new charge-system (the straps would block charging the common way). And what is this on the right (focused): speaker? microphone? place for a crown?
Afters months of waiting for the A4 I'm feeling very excited!


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

checker3 said:


> View attachment 8245002
> 
> I don't know the newer suuntos like traverse and Co. But compared to the A3 there seems to be a new charge-system (the straps would block charging the common way). And what is this on the right (focused): speaker? microphone? place for a crown?
> Afters months of waiting for the A4 I'm feeling very excited!


Looks like the holes for the barometric pressure sensor. E.g. the t6 had them like this, actually


----------



## kmseteam

There has been speculations about this new watch having only three buttons and about how it would work with them. It has to be brought forth that Suunto has already had watches with only three buttons: Quest and M-series. I have dealt with M5 and it wasn't clumsy or difficult to use at all. The logic in it is different, yes, but not difficult.


----------



## anto1980

Speaker?????? 
No, baro sensor!


checker3 said:


> View attachment 8245002
> 
> I don't know the newer suuntos like traverse and Co. But compared to the A3 there seems to be a new charge-system (the straps would block charging the common way). And what is this on the right (focused): speaker? microphone? place for a crown?
> Afters months of waiting for the A4 I'm feeling very excited!


----------



## newtonfb

anto1980 said:


> Speaker??????
> No, baro sensor!


It's already been confirmed there's a baro sensor

June 7th does seem to be the embargo date.










Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## patricu

newtonfb said:


> dont know what you see, all the buttons look the same.


unfortunately I'm not allowed to post links. Just erase the space that is before the .fr: montre-cardio-gps .fr/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/image.jpeg

Bottom button is different, looks like a dial. Not sure how well that would work on such a small button though.


----------



## patricu

patricu said:


> unfortunately I'm not allowed to post links. Just erase the space that is before the .fr: montre-cardio-gps .fr/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/image.jpeg
> 
> Bottom button is different, looks like a dial. Not sure how well that would work on such a small button though.


my bad. It was the reflection that messed me up and made me see things I wanted to see


----------



## neldiogo

patricu said:


> unfortunately I'm not allowed to post links. Just erase the space that is before the .fr: montre-cardio-gps .fr/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/image.jpeg
> 
> Bottom button is different, looks like a dial. Not sure how well that would work on such a small button though.


Looks exactly like de others to me


----------



## JonnoBird

For accuracy freaks, a tidbit: "The antenna is in the watch band."

...next to the expresso steam nipple.


----------



## pjc3

JonnoBird said:


> For accuracy freaks, a tidbit: "The antenna is in the watch band."


Thus no bars like the Traverse/Vertical


----------



## checker3

The link to the gigathlon-flyer (post #19) is now out of date. On the gigathlon-site there is a new pdf online (sorry, I'm not able to post links). And: the ad of suunto has changed "back" to the A3.


----------



## Red PeeKay

checker3 said:


> The link to the gigathlon-flyer (post #19) is now out of date. On the gigathlon-site there is a new pdf online (sorry, I'm not able to post links). And: the ad of suunto has changed "back" to the A3.


Ah well, guess we will just have to suck it up and wait until the 7th....sigh!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## checker3

Hi folks, it's real: the new suunto has the long-awaited feature ))
Have fun with my little photo-composition


----------



## checker3

OK, I was certainly wrong: you have to climb down for increasing the pressure...


----------



## roots_n_rocks

my guess is that the "upgrades" will be color and some fancy graphics...
it looks better than ambit 3, but i don't think that this justifies the price or upgrading from ambit 3


----------



## paulteini

JonnoBird said:


> For accuracy freaks, a tidbit: "The antenna is in the watch band."


Was this serious? Where did this information come from? This would make a portion of this forum's followers happy.


----------



## JonnoBird

paulteini said:


> Was this serious? Where did this information come from? This would make a portion of this forum's followers happy.


It's not true, unless it is. If I knew, I'd tell you!

The expresso steam nipple - not true! Just think how warm your wrist would get.


----------



## Red PeeKay

paulteini said:


> Was this serious? Where did this information come from? This would make a portion of this forum's followers happy.


What, no milk frother? I'm not buying one until they include one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chuwi

What about if Spartan runs some kind of modified android wear version? &#55357;&#56900;❤


----------



## chuwi

What about if Spartan runs some kind of modified android wear version? Mmmmm


----------



## skinnie

We have all this innovation...and then...movescount!
I guess till they have a stable site/app no matter how good the watch will be, you be limited.
If there is a possibility to change screen data offline and upload gpx offline, then its ok for me.


----------



## antjoh

chuwi said:


> What about if Spartan runs some kind of modified android wear version? Mmmmm


Judging by the very poor standard of the Movescount Android app I'd say this is very, very unlikely. I'm not even sure unlikely is the right word to use.


----------



## newtonfb

antjoh said:


> chuwi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about if Spartan runs some kind of modified android wear version? Mmmmm
> 
> 
> 
> Judging by the very poor standard of the Movescount Android app I'd say this is very, very unlikely. I'm not even sure unlikely is the right word to use.
Click to expand...

No kidding...couldn't have said it better myself


----------



## marinemaster

Suunto lost me as a customer when they stopped making watches and started making computers which have batteries that need to be charged every 4 to 5 days. This is not the same company that once made the Vector. They need to change their name to something else.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

marinemaster said:


> Suunto lost me as a customer when they stopped making watches and started making computers which have batteries that need to be charged every 4 to 5 days. This is not the same company that once made the Vector. They need to change their name to something else.


While I understand the feeling, especially with the change in design language that also seems to be coming... if they staid with watches that are Vector-like, they'd most likely be called bankrupt. Or be back to producing nothing but compasses. Even with the X9, they were already speaking of a "wristop computer", and the market for a newly disconnected device just doesn't seem there (for now?)


----------



## HIKESOLO

Judging from the responses in this thread...I simply think Suunto cannot win. The responses are all over the place. The fact that people are upset that Suunto is making a more comfortable watch with a better screen (that yes, needs to be charged) is hilarious to me. And don't bring up GPS accuracy because the watch isn't even out yet. Fact is we don't really know the features and cannot yet determine how pleasing or accurate it is. But it seems like some people are ready to grade this watch's performance already.


----------



## skinnie

marinemaster said:


> Suunto lost me as a customer when they stopped making watches and started making computers which have batteries that need to be charged every 4 to 5 days. This is not the same company that once made the Vector. They need to change their name to something else.


I don't know what suunto watch you have to charge every 4-5 days...
I think it is simply impossible to have a watch with integrated gps (which is "standart" for the people that want a sports watch today) running on cr2032 batteries.
Vector is nice and all, but most of people want more. In fact you can have a polar m400 which does "more" (connection with phone, day activity analysis) than my ambit 2 does for less than a vector hrm costs.
Suunto has to keep up..no matter me or another 10 guys don't like it and prefer black and white watches with rugged appearance, there will be 1000 other people that will prefer this spartan, and this is what makes profit.


----------



## petmic

well, i think the biggest concerns are the touch control that no matter how well developped has no place in rugged outdoor sports watch and the readability of the colour display (with existing technology it will either be inferior to monochrome or will be power hungry). and it is very likely the spartan ultra will feature both of these "improvements" over ambit3. i understand they will satisfy people who want to buy cool looking sports watch on annual basis but not us who want a reliable rugged training tool.


----------



## matej123

The watch looks good, it is step forward, i hope there will be good screen resolution and big enough screen. And GPS accuracy must be same or better than Ambit 3 and same goes for battery life. I am concerned for touchscreen, there can be a lot of problems, i had Garmin Forerunner 405, and there was big problems with touch screen. And the bigest concern is price. Cmon Suunto, for 800 euros i get good gaming computer, for 600-700 eures we get smartphone with 5 to 6 inch SuperAMOLED screen and 2 cameras, GPS and so on... The price i am willing to pay is 500 or at the most 600 euros. But for 600 euros you must offer me superb watch.


----------



## bruceames

HIKESOLO said:


> Judging from the responses in this thread...I simply think Suunto cannot win. The responses are all over the place. *The fact that people are upset that Suunto is making a more comfortable watch* with a better screen (that yes, needs to be charged) is hilarious to me. And don't bring up GPS accuracy because the watch isn't even out yet. Fact is we don't really know the features and cannot yet determine how pleasing or accurate it is. But it seems like some people are ready to grade this watch's performance already.


How do you know it's more comfortable? Hilarious you call out people for making assumptions and "grading" the watch when you do the same thing.


----------



## HIKESOLO

bruceames said:


> HIKESOLO said:
> 
> 
> 
> Judging from the responses in this thread...I simply think Suunto cannot win. The responses are all over the place. *The fact that people are upset that Suunto is making a more comfortable watch* with a better screen (that yes, needs to be charged) is hilarious to me. And don't bring up GPS accuracy because the watch isn't even out yet. Fact is we don't really know the features and cannot yet determine how pleasing or accurate it is. But it seems like some people are ready to grade this watch's performance already.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know it's more comfortable? Hilarious you call out people for making assumptions and "grading" the watch when you do the same thing.
Click to expand...

My apologies - I thought it was obvious that a watch without a giant antenna bulge that was lighter than it's predecessor would almost certainly be more comfortable. But you're right, maybe they have thumbtacks on the underneath.

Judging its perceived comfort is much different than assuming the performance of its included tech - but again - I thought that was obvious.


----------



## RandM

marinemaster said:


> Suunto lost me as a customer when they stopped making watches and started making computers which have batteries that need to be charged every 4 to 5 days. This is not the same company that once made the Vector. They need to change their name to something else.


They still make the Vector but in limited undesirable colors. Please note that Suunto never referred to the Vector as a watch, they called it an instrument. The Ambit Peak has all of the features of the Vector with GPS capabilities. If you do not use the GPS feature and wear it like a Vector, the Ambit will easily go over 30 days without a charge. Some may consider that an improvement over the Vector's battery, cover and ring that I personally found aggravating to change.


----------



## primus

matej123 said:


> ..., i had Garmin Forerunner 405, and there was big problems with touch screen.


Garmin Forerunner 405 does not have a *touch screen*!
And yes, there is a lot of problems with its *touch bezel*!


----------



## RandM

Having owned a Garmin 405, to quote Beavis and Butthead,"It sucked more than anything before this had ever sucked." Even rain would cause the bezel to react. There may have been some technological breakthroughs since then. Remember, CD's used to skip in your car if you ran over even the smallest bump in the road? Now that is almost dead technology.


----------



## bruceames

HIKESOLO said:


> My apologies - I thought it was obvious that a watch without a giant antenna bulge that was lighter than it's predecessor would almost certainly be more comfortable. But you're right, maybe they have thumbtacks on the underneath.
> 
> Judging its perceived comfort is much different than assuming the performance of its included tech - but again - I thought that was obvious.


Hey Hikesolo, I didn't know you changed your screen name.  Hopefully the Ultra will live up to its name. It certainly is a much different watch than any Suunto watch before it.


----------



## HIKESOLO

bruceames said:


> Hey Hikesolo, I didn't know you changed your screen name.  Hopefully the Ultra will live up to its name. It certainly is a much different watch than any Suunto watch before it.


Yep, just recently changed the name.

I was just trying to cut Suunto some slack since we really don't know much about the watch. Even things like the touchscreen...since there are buttons it all depends on how they implement it's use. If the buttons are what we will mostly press during activities and the touchscreen is used to swipe away notifications or things like that then the touchscreen might not be bad news for those who hate them. It all depends. I guess I was just trying to get the point across that we should wait until the official announcement before we tear apart the thing, haha. I guess it's safe to assume the accuracy may not be as good as the A3P with the bulge, but even then - it all depends on how they implemented the antenna and various other factors. So I was just trying to get the point across that we don't know a whole lot about this watch. We pretty much have a random leak with little info, and some patent filings that show images confirming the look is at least somewhat accurate. Outside of that, feature-wise, we don't know a whole lot.

Heck, we don't even know 100% that the Ambit series is dead. They could very well release an Ambit 4 in early 2017 that is black/white with the bulge. Something for the folks that just want a workhorse without all the bells and whistles. The Spartan Ultra could just be the Fenix 3 competitor. Who knows. I sure as heck don't, haha.


----------



## RandM

The Ambit/Traverse are incredible instruments. I do not see them going anywhere anytime soon. When you really think about all of the technology on your wrist, it is amazing. I ran a series of trails I have never been on this morning. Just to think that if I got lost, I could stop, find the right feature and have my Suunto take me back to where I started. As I have said before, I am expecting great things from the Spartan Ultra. I started running in 1978 and your running watch was your wrist watch. I had to wait eight years for the Timex Ironman even though the Marathon series was invented a little earlier. Have a little faith guys.


----------



## roots_n_rocks

RandM said:


> The Ambit/Traverse are incredible instruments. I do not see them going anywhere anytime soon. When you really think about all of the technology on your wrist, it is amazing. I ran a series of trails I have never been on this morning. Just to think that if I got lost, I could stop, find the right feature and have my Suunto take me back to where I started.


A friendly advice: Next time you do something like this, have a printed map of the area with you, as a back up. 
You never know when "all of the technology on your wrist" will break down.



RandM said:


> T As I have said before, I am expecting great things from the Spartan Ultra. I started running in 1978 and your running watch was your wrist watch. I had to wait eight years for the Timex Ironman even though the Marathon series was invented a little earlier. Have a little faith guys.


Suunto is a company. Companies are run by people who's basic concern is not to give the customers the best they can, but to keep the shareholders happy and thus keep their positions and incomes. So, if they are capable of delivering 3 features, but can get away with 1, they will do so and deliver 1 and keep the other 2 for the future.
So don't expect much.


----------



## neldiogo

roots_n_rocks said:


> A friendly advice: Next time you do something like this, have a printed map of the area with you, as a back up.
> You never know when "all of the technology on your wrist" will break down.
> .


Better use a plastic map...never know when rain or a river cross will make it unusable...
And you better attach the map to you because wind might make it fly...


----------



## RandM

Even though I have never has a Suunto malfunction in 411 outings, perhaps I should carry a phone since I was inside the Houston city limits, and a lighter to start a fire and flint as a back up.

Hopefully someone will see the flames.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

You are making fun now, but judging by the EDC gear photos so popular online, if you don't carry flint and a firestarter and at least three knives, you aren't ready for anything. When oh when will Suunto finally put a SPOT beacon into an explorer's watch... So we can all get found on our outings feet from the next road. (And then, you have people climbing one of the highest mountains in the Alps in literal tennis shoes because the road goes close to the top, so surely there could be no more problems... You can probably guess how that goes, regularly.)


----------



## RandM

I forgot, i could wear the Breitling Emergency on my right wrist.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

RandM said:


> I forgot, i could wear the Breitling Emergency on my right wrist.


Now you're talking. Also makes the Spartan Ultra Titanium's price a bargain


----------



## roots_n_rocks

RandM said:


> Even though I have never has a Suunto malfunction in 411 outings, perhaps I should carry a phone since I was inside the Houston city limits, and a lighter to start a fire and flint as a back up.
> 
> Hopefully someone will see the flames.


So you were inside the city limits of big city and you needed a watch to guide you back...well you are a born adventurer....
I would suggest you should self propose for suunto ambassador...


----------



## user_none

RandM said:


> Even though I have never has a Suunto malfunction in 411 outings, perhaps I should carry a phone since I was inside the Houston city limits, and a lighter to start a fire and flint as a back up.
> 
> Hopefully someone will see the flames.


From what I hear, you'll need the Suunto Captain and Navigator edition.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Quit piling on about a "find back" within city limits, guys, or I'm gonna have to invite you to some Chinese cities where the streets do have names but meander so very differently from how the map shows them and so strangely, anyways, you'd be more than happy to have a find back function to lead you back to your hotel...


----------



## RandM

In an effort to be green and to shake the mantle of the least fit/fattest city in the country, Houston built miles of bicycling and jogging paths. A lot of them run along the bayous which are under street level and you really have no idea where you are since most of the paths do not track major streets. I never professed to be an explorer, just a very old distance runner. However, if Suunto did make a Captain and/or Navigator edition, I would probably buy it.


----------



## marinemaster

This Spartan thing is a computer not a watch. I get it they need to move forward, make a profit and all that.
The point is they still need to make a basic ABC inexpensive watch. The Core is way better than any sensors Protrek has and the Vector could have been easily updated. It seems to me they are going an entirely different direction. I don't need a computer to tell me with millimeter precision where I ran and what route and how long it took. I don't compete in the upcoming 2016 Olympics. And if I did much higher precision instruments would have been used. People have been running, hiking for thousands of years without all this and they were way healthier compared to todays world. And to close, it needs to be charged every 200 hours or whatever it is, proves my point they are in the computer business now.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

marinemaster said:


> This Spartan thing is a computer not a watch. I get it they need to move forward, make a profit and all that.
> The point is they still need to make a basic ABC inexpensive watch. The Core is way better than any sensors Protrek has and the Vector could have been easily updated. It seems to me they are going an entirely different direction. I don't need a computer to tell me with millimeter precision where I ran and what route and how long it took. I don't compete in the upcoming 2016 Olympics. And if I did much higher precision instruments would have been used. People have been running, hiking for thousands of years without all this and they were way healthier compared to todays world. And to close, it needs to be charged every 200 hours or whatever it is, proves my point they are in the computer business now.


There you are. Just needs a Suunto branding:









(See above. Suunto has been speaking of / producing "wristop computers" at least since the X9 back in 2004)


----------



## marinemaster

I just love that picture. Cant wait for Suunto to make it.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

marinemaster said:


> I just love that picture. Cant wait for Suunto to make it.


Joked with someone from Suunto about that at the ISPO. The reply was: Well, we did already make the "Guiding Star"...


----------



## silentvoyager

marinemaster said:


> This Spartan thing is a computer not a watch. I get it they need to move forward, make a profit and all that.
> The point is they still need to make a basic ABC inexpensive watch. The Core is way better than any sensors Protrek has and the Vector could have been easily updated. It seems to me they are going an entirely different direction. I don't need a computer to tell me with millimeter precision where I ran and what route and how long it took. I don't compete in the upcoming 2016 Olympics. And if I did much higher precision instruments would have been used. People have been running, hiking for thousands of years without all this and they were way healthier compared to todays world. And to close, it needs to be charged every 200 hours or whatever it is, proves my point they are in the computer business now.


A lot of Ambit users will disagree with you. It is hugely popular among trail and mountain runners. I've never heard of Suunto before it released Ambit a few years ago. I'd switched to Ambit and then to Ambit3 specifically because of its superior GPS performance, which is especially important in challenging conditions - mountains and forested trails. I do need to know where I am going and use GPS navigation and being able to follow a pre-planned route.


----------



## RandM

So because Suunto has made these technological advances, we are less healthy now? If you prefer to take a more minimalistic approach to your activity, more power to you. But advances in running equipment have nothing to do with the abysmal shape of our citizenry. Blame it on the Fitbit. The CDC just announced that Americans are even fatter and everyone has a FitBit. I rarely see anyone else wearing a Suunto, running or elsewhere.


----------



## BillyX

marinemaster said:


> This Spartan thing is a computer not a watch. I get it they need to move forward, make a profit and all that.
> The point is they still need to make a basic ABC inexpensive watch. The Core is way better than any sensors Protrek has and the Vector could have been easily updated. It seems to me they are going an entirely different direction. I don't need a computer to tell me with millimeter precision where I ran and what route and how long it took. I don't compete in the upcoming 2016 Olympics. And if I did much higher precision instruments would have been used. People have been running, hiking for thousands of years without all this and they were way healthier compared to todays world. And to close, it needs to be charged every 200 hours or whatever it is, proves my point they are in the computer business now.


Such a watch you get for 20$ at the supermarket. The only reason for buying Suunto and paying 600$+ is excellent hardware, excellent software and excellent support. Unfortunately Suunto has decided against the last two points.


----------



## neldiogo

It's not technology that make us fat...it's what we make from it...I always loved gadget and didn't knew I loved sports until I could go out and test, GPS Wacthes, Sport Apps and other stuff a few years ago. Technology made me realized I loved to be outdoors. Better technology may not make be run further or faster but at least I can have two pleasures stay fit, and yes a little bit safer. I once got out to run on a not so hard trail course, mainly fireroads, with a Garmin 310XT. It was raining, night was coming but I knew the place. Once it got raining really hard, smog installed also and I got completely disoriented. If it wasn't for the Garmin with the go back function I could have been lost for several hours.


----------



## newtonfb

BillyX said:


> Such a watch you get for 20$ at the supermarket. The only reason for buying Suunto and paying 600$+ is excellent hardware, excellent software and excellent support. Unfortunately Suunto has decided against the last two points.


Cant disagree with you about the lack of software and support. It still irks me that they have decided not to give the A3 Peak the Altitude profile update. Unfortunately for people looking for a multi-sport gps watch, the options are limited to just a few companies.


----------



## X70

newtonfb said:


> ?..It still irks me that they have decided not to give the A3 Peak the Altitude profile update...


Hi, new to the forum and interested to the Altitude profile "live" update feature, like the one supported in the Vertical/Traverse.
in alternative to have such feature on the watch what apps can do that, ideally both as predefined route tracking and while creating a route? It seems that lots gps apps support route tracking but not sure about elevation.
Thanks in advance


----------



## silentvoyager

X70 said:


> Hi, new to the forum and interested to the Altitude profile "live" update feature, like the one supported in the Vertical/Traverse.
> in alternative to have such feature on the watch what apps can do that, ideally both as predefined route tracking and while creating a route? It seems that lots gps apps support route tracking but not sure about elevation.
> Thanks in advance


I don't have an answer regarding the app but wanted to mention that Ambit3 Peak already supports route tracking, just without the elevation. It also supports showing the cumulative climb and descent numbers (which I use on every trail run). Movescount supports elevation profile in the route builder for all versions of Ambit. So at least you can find the total elevation gain and track during a run how much you've already climbed and how much of climb still remains. The only missing part is the pretty visual representation.


----------



## martowl

The website is great and my iOS software does not have issues. I disagree with many of generalizations about software posted here. Mine always syncs and it works. I can draw a route on my phone and import into my Ambit3P without a computer. How great is that?


----------



## X70

silentvoyager said:


> ... Movescount supports elevation profile in the route builder for all versions of Ambit. So at least you can find the total elevation gain and track during a run how much you've already climbed and how much of climb still remains. The only missing part is the pretty visual representation.


Thanks silentvoyager,
yes that's clear. To simplify my sligtly convoluted question, it is exactly this "pretty visual representation" by an app (ios or Android) that I'm looking for


----------



## newtonfb

martowl said:


> The website is great and my iOS software does not have issues. I disagree with many of generalizations about software posted here. Mine always syncs and it works. I can draw a route on my phone and import into my Ambit3P without a computer. How great is that?


Their Android development is pretty rough to say it nicely. The app is pretty bad. You cannot draw routes and import them on Android. No excuse if you ask me.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Ivan_Ivanusic

Agree with you


----------



## Miszka

Spartan Ultra in the wild!

__
http://instagr.am/p/BGMskOgl-K4/


----------



## martowl

newtonfb said:


> Their Android development is pretty rough to say it nicely. The app is pretty bad. You cannot draw routes and import them on Android. No excuse if you ask me.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


i agree, no excuse. Too bad, the iPhone app is simple but it always works for me.


----------



## HIKESOLO

Here are the Movescount pages of a couple athletes spotted in the wild with the Spartan Ultra. We can stalk their pages 

As of now their moves are saying they were done with A3P, but I imagine Suunto is doing that on purpose.

omardifelice's profile - Member at Movescount.com

uelisteck's profile - Member at Movescount.com


----------



## paulteini

All the leaks show a watch with a black face. Do you think the watch face only turns on when you move your wrist in the correct way (like the Apple Watch)?


----------



## morey000

and here's another 'wild' shot from Killian

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/738797090915135488


----------



## petmic

morey000 said:


> and here's another 'wild' shot from Killian
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/738797090915135488


i think this confirms it has 3 buttons and touchscreen then


----------



## Miszka

HIKESOLO said:


> Here are the Movescount pages of a couple athletes spotted in the wild with the Spartan Ultra. We can stalk their pages
> 
> As of now their moves are saying they were done with A3P, but I imagine Suunto is doing that on purpose.
> 
> omardifelice's profile - Member at Movescount.com
> 
> uelisteck's profile - Member at Movescount.com


We don't even know if they are wearing working models - what if they are just dumb prototypes for marketing purposes only? And they are relaying on their trustworthy peaks.


----------



## HIKESOLO

Miszka said:


> We don't even know if they are wearing working models - what if they are just dumb prototypes for marketing purposes only? And they are relaying on their trustworthy peaks.


More likely they are just uploading to the new beta version of Movescount. But who knows?


----------



## anto1980

Another pic!!!


----------



## MoLu

Must be purely by accident that so many testers and athletes suddenly start posting pictures of the watch


----------



## Miszka

Pretty weird that all those displays are off


----------



## mike_right

Miszka said:


> Pretty weird that all those displays are off


I am pretty sure that it is part of the marketing campaign. You have to take into account that they probably do not expect the leak.

First show only the watch and expectation starts. "Ey guys! There is no buttons on one side!". 
"Black or color screen?"
"Oh it is big"
"No antena"

Second... Who knows ;-)


----------



## HIKESOLO

Now I want to see a Titanium Black in the wild - because that's the one I'll be picking up.


----------



## bruceames

Miszka said:


> Pretty weird that all those displays are off


If it's like the Apple watch then it only displays when you move your wrist a certain way. I don't think these athletes and testers are wearing dummy watches, after all it could be the watch is ready and will come to market as soon as they announce it. Wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## Quotron

bruceames said:


> If it's like the Apple watch then it only displays when you move your wrist a certain way.


Wonder how well that will work with running, especially trail running...


----------



## petmic

Miszka said:


> Pretty weird that all those displays are off


 maybe they are not off at all.....and it is just that these photos show how readable these fancy colour displays are :-x


----------



## Roland_Austria

Tinaemelie on Instagramm:


----------



## Miszka

Roland_Austria said:


> Tinaemelie on Instagramm:
> View attachment 8339570


Another black void of dim display is staring at us. It's either conspiracy or the display is really dark (battery saving?). Emelie says she can follow her HR on it...? Is it visible only at a certain angle? Not very convinient for a heavy panting athlete. Don't want to be a debbie downer here, but I sense the Suunto color display is a one big fiasco.


----------



## newtonfb

Miszka said:


> Another black void of dim display is staring at us. It's either conspiracy or the display is really dark (battery saving?). Emelie says she can follow her HR on it...? Is it visible only at a certain angle? Not very convinient for a heavy panting athlete. Don't want to be a debbie downer here, but I sense the Suunto color display is a one big fiasco.


Its just a wild guess but my bet is that Suunto told them to take a few photos with the screen off just to tease everyone. Its just a small marketing tease before they release information on the 7th. If on the 7th the screen doesn't turn on or you cant read it, then sure be upset but they obviously have done hundreds of test in the wild in different scenarios to make sure the screen will work fine. But like i said, just a wild guess


----------



## Miszka

newtonfb said:


> Its just a wild guess but my bet is that Suunto told them to take a few photos with the screen off just to tease everyone. Its just a small marketing tease before they release information on the 7th. If on the 7th the screen doesn't turn on or you cant read it, then sure be upset but they obviously have done hundreds of test in the wild in different scenarios to make sure the screen will work fine. But like i said, just a wild guess


Wild guessing is what we do over here, there is less fun is reading the official specs  But it's logic the screen must be dim or not always-on if they want to keep the acceptable size and 20h battery life. I really wonder how they will pull if of with smartwatch competing hi res colour display. Garmin has given up opting for Atari 1980's pallette and resolution, Polar sticks to b&w.


----------



## rdm01

Miszka said:


> Another black void of dim display is staring at us. It's either conspiracy or the display is really dark (battery saving?). Emelie says she can follow her HR on it...? Is it visible only at a certain angle? Not very convinient for a heavy panting athlete. Don't want to be a debbie downer here, but I sense the Suunto color display is a one big fiasco.


Probably tomorrow will see the official announcement ;-)

deporteporvida.com


----------



## batareikin

I've just noticed that strap is similar to Kailash strap.


----------



## checker3

Because of the "only" three buttons: The Kailash has also these three ones - without any touch functionality. How convenient is it to handle?


----------



## HIKESOLO

The display is a fiasco?!?!

How in the world would you know???


----------



## Miszka

HIKESOLO said:


> The display is a fiasco?!?! How in the world would you know???


There is no doubt that over the weekend Suunto launched a viral campaign of the Spartan. Instagram, facebook videos, twitter... Viral campaigns of products before the official unveiling have purpose of inciting customers speculation. We Suunto fans gladly obliged, we speculated. I speculated over the display. I never claimed any hard knowledge about the product.

We've seen a lot of Spartans in the wild being worn by athletes. None of the devices had displays on, had it? Emelie Forsberg took a photo of her Spartan saying she is comparing her HR movemnt - on a dead display. So it's either extreme bad luck, that their smartphones couldn't catch that one right angle, or the display is not "always on", which is bad for a sport watch or extremly dim and dull, which is OK for the sake of battery life, but I'd prefer not to be fooled by the fantasy marketging photos we've seen so far.


----------



## starks

Anybody has a guess about the charging port and cable? Do you think it will be the same as Ambit 2 and Ambit 3? I wonder if we'll be able to use the spare charging cables of Ambit 3.


----------



## WEM

starks said:


> Anybody has a guess about the charging port and cable? Do you think it will be the same as Ambit 2 and Ambit 3? I wonder if we'll be able to use the spare charging cables of Ambit 3.


I don't think so - on the drawings you can see that the connector has another posiition:

http://gpsrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Screen-Shot-2016-05-25-at-07.23.22-300x271.png


----------



## batareikin

checker3 said:


> Because of the "only" three buttons: The Kailash has also these three ones - without any touch functionality. How convenient is it to handle?


3 buttons for Kailash is more than enough due to its limited number of functions.
I think it is easy to provide much more functionality with 3 buttons. And I am sure Spartan will do it.


----------



## Rem_

fact that screens are all in "sleep" mode is just because Suunto wanted to preserve/tease the "surprise" of having color screen . (1st ever @Suunto).
Remember that leaks from gigathlon and sportscheck were not supposed to exist (btw , they're gone).

Now this may turn to a bad buzz if this color screen is faded (like/worse than fenix3) or/and require sleep mode à la apple watch.
i bet on bright and crisp colors


----------



## HIKESOLO

Rem_ said:


> fact that screens are all in "sleep" mode is just because Suunto wanted to preserve/tease the "surprise" of having color screen . (1st ever @Suunto).
> Remember that leaks from gigathlon and sportscheck were not supposed to exist (btw , they're gone).
> 
> Now this may turn to a bad buzz if this color screen is faded (like/worse than fenix3) or/and require sleep mode à la apple watch.
> i bet on bright and crisp colors


EXACTLY. The screens being off in these photos does not mean that there is automatic sleep mode. Does not mean the screen is a "fiasco". We can't really assume anything based off a photo of a watch with it's screen off. It obviously was a coordinated marketing effort where one of the requirements was to have the screen off. Simple as that. Doesn't mean the screen sucks. Doesn't mean if you aren't looking at that it is asleep.


----------



## margusl

batareikin said:


> 3 buttons for Kailash is more than enough due to its limited number of functions.
> I think it is easy to provide much more functionality with 3 buttons. And I am sure Spartan will do it.


Technically it is easy - take flashlights for example, quite complex UI can be implemented even with a single button, short and long presses, 2x ... 6x clicking. And most implementations actually work quite nice, well, at least as long as you keep close to a printed manual. As I'm not too keen to re-program my lights in the middle of action, I'd also prefer to use simple UI/UIX on a watch in the middle of adventure race or any other slightly fast paced sport - quick and intuitive and in some cases blind access to start, pause, lap and lock; plus backlight, screen/view change and sometimes navigation.

I'm not exactly against bling and big high-res screens, but looking at those "leaks" , I'd really doubt I'd wear it if there's even a slight chance to end up little bit scratched and muddy and that's about half of outings when I'm trying to have some fun.


----------



## HIKESOLO

margusl said:


> Technically it is easy - take flashlights for example, quite complex UI can be implemented even with a single button, short and long presses, 2x ... 6x clicking. And most implementations actually work quite nice, well, at least as long as you keep close to a printed manual. As I'm not too keen to re-program my lights in the middle of action, I'd also prefer to use simple UI/UIX on a watch in the middle of adventure race or any other slightly fast paced sport - quick and intuitive and in some cases blind access to start, pause, lap and lock; plus backlight, screen/view change and sometimes navigation.
> 
> I'm not exactly against bling and big high-res screens, but looking at those "leaks" , I'd really doubt I'd wear it if there's even a slight chance to end up little bit scratched and muddy and that's about half of outings when I'm trying to have some fun.


Well I'm definitely going to wear mine. I imagine a watch called the "Spartan Ultra" is expected to be worn on any type of adventure. What in those leaks deters you from wanting to prevent scratches or getting it muddy? I'd understand if the price deters you from putting it at risk, but then at that point I wouldn't recommend buying it. It's designed to be used, and in all kinds of situations. I don't see how this watch would be any more prone to scratching than any other Suunto product - especially considering it has a sapphire screen (at least we think). It has more real estate on the screen, which I guess does make it more open to damage, but I still don't see how these leaked pictures would alter anyone's opinion from what we've already seen in the original images of the watch on Page 1 of this thread.


----------



## Miszka

HIKESOLO said:


> Well I'm definitely going to wear mine. I imagine a watch called the "Spartan Ultra" is expected to be worn on any type of adventure. What in those leaks deters you from wanting to prevent scratches or getting it muddy? I'd understand if the price deters you from putting it at risk, but then at that point I wouldn't recommend buying it. It's designed to be used, and in all kinds of situations. I don't see how this watch would be any more prone to scratching than any other Suunto product - especially considering it has a sapphire screen (at least we think). It has more real estate on the screen, which I guess does make it more open to damage, but I still don't see how these leaked pictures would alter anyone's opinion from what we've already seen in the original images of the watch on Page 1 of this thread.


Dear Hikesolo, are you losing patience with us, the constant complainers of the watchuseek forum? Isn't that the fun of being here, splitting hair before it's being pulled? I think all our worries are coming from a good place - we are waiting for the newest incarnation of Suunto advanture watch. Ambit3 was perfect at its time, we'd love to see the 2016 Ambit, not an expensive sports-fashion statement. As for me, I'd rather pass the "Spartan Ultra", and wait few months for the "Spartan Sport" (hopefully with the full ABC package).


----------



## HIKESOLO

Miszka said:


> Dear Hikesolo, are you losing patience with us, the constant complainers of the watchuseek forum? Isn't that the fun of being here, splitting hair before it's being pulled? I think all our worries are coming from a good place - we are waiting for the newest incarnation of Suunto advanture watch. Ambit3 was perfect at its time, we'd love to see the 2016 Ambit, not an expensive sports-fashion statement. As for me, I'd rather pass the "Spartan Ultra", and wait few months for the "Spartan Sport" (hopefully with the full ABC package).


I don't know...I guess. I just don't understand how we can complain about something that isn't even announced yet. If you wanted to say something like, "The new Suunto Spartan Ultra is SUPER ugly in these leaked pics" then I'd understand (but not agree, haha). If you wanted to say something like, "The leaked price is wayyyy too high - I hope the actual price is less", I'd understand. But to call the screen a "fiasco" before you know how it looks/operates seems unproductive to me. It's literally complaining about something that may or may not exist. For all we know the watches were just off for the leaked pics. Or perhaps they do have a feature where the screen goes to sleep and a wrist gesture wakes it up - or perhaps it has that feature but can be disabled providing us options. My point is nobody knows - so yes, it can be annoying to hear people complain about something they know nothing about.

I can also understand it can be annoying to have me tell them to stop complaining, haha. But whatever - just sort of seems this thread is turning into a Garmin-style forum. A big whinefest.


----------



## Miszka

HIKESOLO said:


> I can also understand it can be annoying to have me tell them to stop complaining, haha. But whatever - just sort of seems this thread is turning into a Garmin-style forum. A big whinefest.


Now I feel bad that I complained about the "dead displays" and "sensing a fiasco". You are right. We don't know much. Leak was screwed up by the German site. Life is too short to ..... about imperfect future. This is a Suunto appreciation forum, amirite?!


----------



## HIKESOLO

Miszka said:


> Now I feel bad that I complained about the "dead displays" and "sensing a fiasco". You are right. We don't know much. Leak was screwed up by the German site. Life is too short to ..... about imperfect future. This is a Suunto appreciation forum, amirite?!


Haha, my intention wasn't to make you feel bad. It's Monday morning so I'm a tad grumpy. Was just trying to say complaints after an official announcement are totally justified - it just feels a bit unwarranted before actual specs are released or the watch is in our hands.


----------



## margusl

HIKESOLO said:


> Well I'm definitely going to wear mine. I imagine a watch called the "Spartan Ultra" is expected to be worn on any type of adventure. What in those leaks deters you from wanting to prevent scratches or getting it muddy? I'd understand if the price deters you from putting it at risk, but then at that point I wouldn't recommend buying it. It's designed to be used, and in all kinds of situations. I don't see how this watch would be any more prone to scratching than any other Suunto product - especially considering it has a sapphire screen (at least we think). It has more real estate on the screen, which I guess does make it more open to damage, but I still don't see how these leaked pictures would alter anyone's opinion from what we've already seen in the original images of the watch on Page 1 of this thread.


For me personally price is one of the factors for sure, and a big one - I'm really not comfortable with putting such investment through regular beating, in other words - if I can't afford to break or lose it, I'd feel that wearing it would hold me back ( at least for few months or so  )
Now when I think about it, cleaning watch face to my shirt and picking dirt from starp holes after taking an unexpected slide down a muddy slope would be bit awkward with any nice and shiny new watch 
Actually you are right, at this point there is nothing that suggests it might be more prone to damage compared to earlier Ambits, there's just something with this design line that slightly annoys me ...

Anyway, even if I'm not going to throw €€€ at that thing on a first chance, I'm still eager to find out what exactly we are seeing on those teaser images and leaked brochures and how all those design choices will eventually work out.


----------



## HIKESOLO

margusl said:


> For me personally price is one of the factors for sure, and a big one - I'm really not comfortable with putting such investment through regular beating, in other words - if I can't afford to break or lose it, I'd feel that wearing it would hold me back ( at least for few months or so  )
> Now when I think about it, cleaning watch face to my shirt and picking dirt from starp holes after taking an unexpected slide down a muddy slope would be bit awkward with any nice and shiny new watch
> Actually you are right, at this point there is nothing that suggests it might be more prone to damage compared to earlier Ambits, there's just something with this design line that slightly annoys me ...
> 
> Anyway, even if I'm not going to throw €€€ at that thing on a first chance, I'm still eager to find out what exactly we are seeing on those teaser images and leaked brochures and how all those design choices will eventually work out.


Totally agree that the price could make one nervous about using it to it's fullest potential...but at this point these high-end devices cost what they cost (which in my eyes is too much, haha). That could really go for any watch though. You could accidentally slam your shiny new Rolex on a brick wall just turning a corner and really screw up the bezel. Just sort of comes with the territory of an expensive watch. Risk is always involved. Personally, for my sport/gps watches I go into it knowing it will probably get some sort of cosmetic damage and try to think of them as battle scars, haha. Important thing to me is that it's rugged enough to take hits without ruining functionality of the internal technical components.


----------



## roots_n_rocks

I have very bad news for the spartan ultra watch: It is not going to make you faster in any sport.....

But i also have very good news for you....
For the same amount of money or even less, you can buy a product that it will make you faster, without being illegal, like PEDs.
I have tried it, without much expectations and i was socked by the fact that after 150km and over 10k vertical in a race,
i could easily run on flat and uphills and not being trashed and crawl like i was expecting to do.

If i get 50 likes for this post, i will reveal the product.
Alternatively, for 1000 usd deposit to my account i could reveal the product to whoever might be interested.
I don't want to make money, i just want to buy an upgraded version of the same product.

Of course, you can still spend 700+ usd for the latest suunto/garmin/polar/xxxxx product that the only thing that
will basically do, is to show (with colors) you, how you suck in you sport of choice....


----------



## HIKESOLO

roots_n_rocks said:


> I have very bad news for the spartan ultra watch: It is not going to make you faster in any sport.....
> 
> But i also have very good news for you....
> For the same amount of money or even less, you can buy a product that it will make you faster, without being illegal, like PEDs.
> I have tried it, without much expectations and i was socked by the fact that after 150km and over 10k vertical in a race,
> i could easily run on flat and uphills and not being trashed and crawl like i was expecting to do.
> 
> If i get 50 likes for this post, i will reveal the product.
> Alternatively, for 1000 usd deposit to my account i could reveal the product to whoever might be interested.
> I don't want to make money, i just want to buy an upgraded version of the same product.
> 
> Of course, you can still spend 700+ usd for the latest suunto/garmin/polar/xxxxx product that the only thing that
> will basically do, is to show (with colors) you, how you suck in you sport of choice....


I'm in. Where should I send the money?!


----------



## Tabinho

Leaked Spartan Ultra price: 649€

Ambit3 Peak Sapphire HR price (before sale): 599€


----------



## the5krunner

Tabinho said:


> Leaked Spartan Ultra price: 649€
> 
> Ambit3 Peak Sapphire HR price (before sale): 599€


colour touchscrfeen can be disabled
lots of people happy
news tomorrow
maybe
best

the5krunner


----------



## the5krunner

Tabinho said:


> Leaked Spartan Ultra price: 649€
> 
> Ambit3 Peak Sapphire HR price (before sale): 599€


colour touchscreen can be disabled

lots of people happy

news tomorrow

maybe

best rgds

the5krunner


----------



## the5krunner

and of course this entire thread assumes it's just about the Spartan Ultra.


----------



## paulteini

Tomorrow will be so nice, we can _finally_ start a thread to complain about what we think will be wrong with the Suunto Spartan Ultra *2*


----------



## the5krunner

paulteini said:


> Tomorrow will be so nice, we can _finally_ start a thread to complain about what we think will be wrong with the Suunto Spartan Ultra *2*


i've written a few posts but to be honest there's not too much to officially go on even if/when the emabrgo is lifted.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Yeah, even with official specs known, it's still a matter of putting a device through its paces - and in more than a few hours on the road. But, to the first (review) poster with the most followers already go the major spoils.

I'm looking forward to (hopefully, of course) spending 3 weeks this summer in China, where an Ambit3 got crazily destroyed within a year, with a Spartan Ultra... it will be great for checking how it handles heat and sweat, especially when it comes to the touchscreen. And it would be too late for a review if I only published one after that time. Then again, crazily, my Ambit3 *preview* video from the OutDoor Friedrichshafen is still one of my most-watched videos...

Go figure. And go forth and complain after we at least know the final, official specs (when the whining about updates will start, no doubt  ).


----------



## mike_right

Something big is coming ;-)

MAJOR UDPATE REQUIRING MOVESCOUNT MAINTENANCE BREAK ON TUESDAY, JUNE 7TH
Tomorrow we are launching the first step of a major Suunto Movescount renewal. The service will get a new look with a simplified, enhanced and mobile-friendly user interface and exciting new features to discover new routes and analyze your training.
Adding the new features will require a maintenance break, and movescount.com will not be available for a few hours on Tuesday the 7th of June starting at 6 AM GMT. We expect the update to be completed latest by 12 PM. During that time synchronization with the Movescount App, Moveslink, Moveslink2 and Movestick Mini won't be available.

We apologize for the inconvenience and look forward to introducing the new Suunto Movescount. Follow @movescount on Twitter and Movescount on Facebook to get the latest news on Tuesday.

-Your Suunto Movescount Team


----------



## Joakim Agren

mike_right said:


> Something big is coming ;-)
> 
> MAJOR UDPATE REQUIRING MOVESCOUNT MAINTENANCE BREAK ON TUESDAY, JUNE 7TH
> Tomorrow we are launching the first step of a major Suunto Movescount renewal. The service will get a new look with a simplified, enhanced and mobile-friendly user interface and exciting new features to discover new routes and analyze your training.
> Adding the new features will require a maintenance break, and movescount.com will not be available for a few hours on Tuesday the 7th of June starting at 6 AM GMT. We expect the update to be completed latest by 12 PM. During that time synchronization with the Movescount App, Moveslink, Moveslink2 and Movestick Mini won't be available.
> 
> We apologize for the inconvenience and look forward to introducing the new Suunto Movescount. Follow @movescount on Twitter and Movescount on Facebook to get the latest news on Tuesday.
> 
> -Your Suunto Movescount Team


"simplified, enhanced and mobile-friendly user interface"

This usually means that for us using regular stationary computers functionality will get worse and site look uglier! Let's hope this is not the case with Movescount!:rodekaart


----------



## HIKESOLO

Joakim Agren said:


> "simplified, enhanced and mobile-friendly user interface"
> 
> This usually means that for us using regular stationary computers functionality will get worse and site look uglier! Let's hope this is not the case with Movescount!


And so it begins LOL


----------



## d2i23

just go to suunto dot com/sports-watch-collections/Suunto-Spartan-Collection/


----------



## batareikin

and here you are
Suunto Spartan Collection â€" adventure multisport GPS watches

"Further details of the product will be released in July 2016. The watches become available in August, and the solution will continue to grow in functionality via SW, service and application updates during the remaining year."


----------



## tommy_h1

Looking good, any idea if they are Android Smartwatch based?


----------



## Tabinho

batareikin said:


> and here you are
> Suunto Spartan Collection - adventure multisport GPS watches
> 
> "Further details of the product will be released in July 2016. The watches become available in August, and the solution will continue to grow in functionality via SW, service and application updates during the remaining year."


Beautiful watch!

Don't like what "competitive battery" implies but hoping for the best.


----------



## petmic

tommy_h1 said:


> Looking good, any idea if they are Android Smartwatch based?


i sincerely wish they are not!


----------



## Hecke

Nowhere does the ad say 'apps'. Does this mean they threw away all the neat customization options of the Ambit line? Urgs. This would be almost a deal breaker. Add the price, and leave me very sad... Darn. 

Anyone to convince me otherwise?


----------



## Quotron

Ehhh...


----------



## Pirk

Suunto rolls out refreshed Movescount site, announces new Spartan Ultra GPS watch | DC Rainmaker

"But aside from those two brief paragraphs, we actually know next to nothing about the watch in terms of actual features.Seriously, nothing.
Suunto doesn't plan to release further information until July 6th, 2016, as part of a "phased launch". Then they'll begin shipping the watch sometime in August, at which point they'll give us further yet details about the watch and future update plans.
Such a strategy seems rather peculiar to me, especially in the summer months. It's over the next few weeks (early June) that any remaining watch buyer hold-outs will be purchasing new watches for the popular summer sport months. Those are the same folks that could be tempted to wait till the end of summer to upgrade if the specs are good enough. Else, they'll likely go to competitive devices versus waiting for an unknown. By not releasing the full specs of the device now, Suunto is effectively making it easy for people to decide. After all, you can buy a very capable new Ambit 3 Peak for less than half the cost of the upcoming Spartan Ultra, which will _start_ at*$699USD/649€* for the base model, and then escalates to *$799/749€* for the Titanium models. A heart rate strap is also available for $50/50€ more when bundled with either model.
Thus when I release my 2016 Summer Recommendations roundup next week, you definitely won't find the Spartan Ultra on there. How could I? After all, I've not had any hands-on time with it, nor do we even have simple battery life specs for it. When I pressed for clarity on that, I was simply told it will be 'competitive'. We also don't know about GPS accuracy, an area the recent bump-less Suunto Traverse and Vertical have struggled with compared to the rock-solid Ambits. Basically, we don't know anything more than 2-3 sentences worth of specs and a few pretty pictures (though&#8230;it does look pretty)."


----------



## Glajda

Well, we still don't know much, except that if you wait for the watch, you'll miss the summer. That's a pity.

I'm not worried about the touchscreen that much, as I'm sure they tested it in the water so it's probably O.K. in wet weather also.

Not too excited about competitive battery life. It might mean you have to turn off the screen or dim it to get a bit more out of it. 'You can control the battery life of the watch yourself' - either full monty for a shorter period or with restrictions for extended use - just a guess, of course..

Also, I was excited about the possibility of additional metrics in the HR belt like in Garmin or Stryd, but for 50€ I guess it's not happening.

Looks like no apps, but maybe they'll update the platform to allow something more powerful.

I was quite excited about the release but now I have mixed feelings. And on top of that we'll have to wait a month to have an idea about the watch.


----------



## Glajda

Sorry, double post.


----------



## margusl

From DCR comments - https://the5krunner.com/2016/06/07/...-well-a-user-guide-quickstart-guide-at-least/ (Suunto Spartan Ultra quick guide)


----------



## eeun

Shame about the price hike over the Ambit line ☹ 

It seems, at least here in the UK, that Suunto has moved from a top-end brand to uber luxury on price. I guess my long wait to upgrade the '2 sapphire' will continue in vain as I will not spend £600+ on this sort of device. I too am not a touch-screen fan either.


----------



## the5krunner

yep. I go that fro Suunto PR. My roundup of the press release (devoid of info) and the website is here (it wouldn't let me post the link): 

https:// the5krunner .com /2016/06/07/suunto-spartan-ultra-collection-more-info-from-the-marketing


----------



## the5krunner

i've been talking to a few of the people in 3rd party companies like stryd and moxy and bsx. NONE OF THEM WOULD SAY IT WAS SUUNTO but there >>is<< a device doing the rounds that will support lots of clever 3rd party stuff.
Garmin will obviosly allow that through their IQ thing, so it wasn't them
so i assume it must be either suunto or Polar. Suunto seems most likely based on their existing epoc/stryd support. But I am just GUESSING.
They are getting quite a lot of traffic for people lookign at the ultra today, my guess is that they are trying to peak our mutual interest in this 'story'. I find it a little annoying but it HAS FOR SURE got me interested


----------



## gimegime

I honestly do not understand what there is to be annoyed about. Suunto released some promotional details instead of specs today, an undisclosed release date assumed by many.

I am impatient too as I have held out for this watch before buying. But am happy to wait and see what the specs and features are, then I will judge if it is worth purchasing. The market at the moment for a high end multipart GPS watch is lacking a complete package with options lacking in different areas. No perfect must buy watch in my opinion.

What I find extremely peculiar is the update from DC Raymaker. For a respected blogger who reviews products, his blog post seems to be rather negative based purely that Suunto aren't releasing a product in time take advantage of Summer Sales or for his yearly product guide.

I for one couldn't care less if the product has an August release. I care that it is stable, accurate and functional and not released with bugs.


----------



## costaxo

The Hype just got REAL.. The watch looks pretty, and from the little info i read it's going to be interesting. Now untill more info and specs are released let the hype grow!!! The marketing plan kind of reminds me of the adidas yeezy/boost marketing. They building up the hype spreading rumors that there might be a new model released and then bam a week prior to release date they give out the color and the exact model they will be releasing..


----------



## tommy_h1

petmic said:


> i sincerely wish they are not!


so do i


----------



## gimegime

I am seriously shocked at the number of people willing to write off what could be a serious new entrant in the multi sport watch market based on....quite literally nothing. Based on the past problems with movescount it makes complete sense not to launch your newly anticipated watch the same day as a major Movescount update. 

I have an Ambit 1 still going great and use it nearly every day. Have resisted the urge to upgrade to Ambits 2/3 as I haven't felt they offered enough of an advancement to warrant retiring my Ambit 1. If I were to buy a watch today it would a 920XT as I feel this watch offers the best in functionality, just a shame how it looks from an everyday watch perspective. I had planned to purchase a Fenix 3 as I wanted the 902XT but the persistent reports of poorly performing GPS tracking was enough to scare me from investing such a large sum of money on a watch that was not accurate. 

I have been waiting for the next generation watch from Suunto, and waiting another 4 weeks isn't going to bother me one iota. Lets see what it offers.


----------



## wydim

I was also hoping to have my question answered today, but it seems Suunto has another plan in mind. They generate excitement and build it up until release in August.

I love DCRainmaker and his reviews but I also find it harsh to write such a negative "preview" just because he doesn't like Suunto's release date and marketing campaign.

Anyway, that will not prevent me from using my precious Ambit2 to track my summer sports and like someone said earlier, the new Spartan will not make you faster. I say it only makes you look cooler (and maybe a little faster too, because it's 20 grams lighter than my A3 Saphire)


----------



## newtonfb

Here is the quickstart guide if anyone is interested. Not much but does give you a few extra things


----------



## HIKESOLO

wydim said:


> I was also hoping to have my question answered today, but it seems Suunto has another plan in mind. They generate excitement and build it up until release in August.
> 
> I love DCRainmaker and his reviews but I also find it harsh to write such a negative "preview" just because he doesn't like Suunto's release date and marketing campaign.
> 
> Anyway, that will not prevent me from using my precious Ambit2 to track my summer sports and like someone said earlier, the new Spartan will not make you faster. I say it only makes you look cooler (and maybe a little faster too, because it's 20 grams lighter than my A3 Saphire)


I just posted a comment on his blog mentioning it was a bit harsh to be negative about an August release. They could be like Garmin and release 12 watches in 2 weeks...but then again, you have to go through months of firmware updates with Garmin to get the watch close to where it should have been on release day. So while you may get a May release from Garmin, it likely won't be until after August until you have what you were expecting. I'd rather Suunto take their time and release a stable product on Day 1.


----------



## capcav73

newtonfb said:


> Here is the quickstart guide if anyone is interested. Not much but does give you a few extra things


Hi, my first post here to focus on the magnet mentionned in this guide. 
"The USB cable device connector includes a strong magnet". 
Don't you think it could be something to help charging during an activity ?


----------



## newtonfb

Does anyone else think that video Suunto released this morning was good? I honestly thought it was terrible. It never showed the watch in action, it just showed it as it will look, but nothing in realtime. The 360 part wasnt great either, it just distracted you and there wasnt much to be looking at. I just thought it would be more seeing people use the watch in different scenarios. It was a letdown for me.

When you compare it to the Fenix 3 video it doesnt stand a chance. And no, I dont own a Fenix 3, I have a A3Peak but this again proves that Suuntos marketing is in some dire need of help


----------



## HIKESOLO

newtonfb said:


> Does anyone else think that video Suunto released this morning was good? I honestly thought it was terrible. It never showed the watch in action, it just showed it as it will look, but nothing in realtime. The 360 part wasnt great either, it just distracted you and there wasnt much to be looking at. I just thought it would be more seeing people use the watch in different scenarios. It was a letdown for me.


I wasn't all that impressed with the video either - but it's just a teaser video afterall. I don't care about their video editing capabilities. I just want them to make a nice watch, haha.


----------



## dcrainmaker

HIKESOLO said:


> I just posted a comment on his blog mentioning it was a bit harsh to be negative about an August release. They could be like Garmin and release 12 watches in 2 weeks...but then again, you have to go through months of firmware updates with Garmin to get the watch close to where it should have been on release day. So while you may get a May release from Garmin, it likely won't be until after August until you have what you were expecting. I'd rather Suunto take their time and release a stable product on Day 1.


Odd, I included one paragraph with some critical thinking. Beyond that, Suunto did little more than release a bunch of PR fluff today. I'm going to be critical of any company that does that. People here would have been upset had I not written at all about it. So if I'm going to write about it, I'm certainly going to include my thoughts on the subject (positive or negative). Surely that's why you came to read my post versus just a press release? Had I really wanted to riley folks up, I'd have dove into the 'competitive' statement on battery life. Competitive with what exactly? After all, there's no color touchscreen watch on the market today that's in this portion of the category. So either you're comparing against a touch smartwatch (generally bad battery - i.e. Vivoactive or something like the Apple Watch), or comparing against some color models (i.e. Fenix3).

More than all that though, Suunto continues to botch PR. Not from the standpoint of making me happy - I don't care about that - but from the standpoint of them running a business with the aim of increasing awareness of their products and why it might be cool. In fact, there's nothing in today's release that says "This is cool, here's why you should wait for it" or "This is super cool, let us hint at just one cool feature" or "Here's one sweet feature that nobody else has, well tell you a new feature each week". They had so much potential for a viral campaign, and it just went....thud.

I really want Suunto to deliver a viable competitor to the Fenix3, something that people go "Ahh...boom, yes!". But none of the information they released today says that (perhaps it will down the road). And that's fine, but it's just not a smart business move. For example, a Engadget or The Verge or similar isn't going to cover a company like Suunto (or even Garmin) them multiple times for a single product. You get one shot. And this time they wasted that shot on "just another fitness smartwatch, except that it that costs $800)", instead of "Here's a kick-ass watch that does all these things and this is why you should pay $800".


----------



## gijom

Hi, I did notice in the video that the watch face nicely delivers 7+1 metrics (with the circular gauge which probably repeats a metric already printed) in the cycling mode. Sweet.


----------



## antjoh

That video by Suunto must surely be a mistake? It looks so incredibly amateurish I'm actually losing a bit of hope as a Suunto fanboy.
I'd have to agree with dcrainmaker on this one, Suunto has to do better than this.


----------



## HIKESOLO

dcrainmaker said:


> Odd, I included one paragraph with some critical thinking. Beyond that, Suunto did little more than release a bunch of PR fluff today. I'm going to be critical of any company that does that. People here would have been upset had I not written at all about it. So if I'm going to write about it, I'm certainly going to include my thoughts on the subject (positive or negative). Surely that's why you came to read my post versus just a press release? Had I really wanted to riley folks up, I'd have dove into the 'competitive' statement on battery life. Competitive with what exactly? After all, there's no color touchscreen watch on the market today that's in this portion of the category. So either you're comparing against a touch smartwatch (generally bad battery - i.e. Vivoactive or something like the Apple Watch), or comparing against some color models (i.e. Fenix3).
> 
> More than all that though, Suunto continues to botch PR. Not from the standpoint of making me happy - I don't care about that - but from the standpoint of them running a business with the aim of increasing awareness of their products and why it might be cool. In fact, there's nothing in today's release that says "This is cool, here's why you should wait for it" or "This is super cool, let us hint at just one cool feature" or "Here's one sweet feature that nobody else has, well tell you a new feature each week". They had so much potential for a viral campaign, and it just went....thud.
> 
> I really want Suunto to deliver a viable competitor to the Fenix3, something that people go "Ahh...boom, yes!". But none of the information they released today says that (perhaps it will down the road). And that's fine, but it's just not a smart business move. For example, a Engadget or The Verge or similar isn't going to cover a company like Suunto (or even Garmin) them multiple times for a single product. You get one shot. And this time they wasted that shot on "just another fitness smartwatch, except that it that costs $800)", instead of "Here's a kick-ass watch that does all these things and this is why you should pay $800".


Hi Ray. All I said was I left a comment on your blog saying that one section was a bit harsh. Release date doesn't really matter to me. I didn't say you were completely out of line, haha. I agree with most of what you said. Suunto does have some odd ways of approaching things, and always have. I just thought the blurb about release date and missing your summer recommendations was a bit odd. But maybe that's just me.

Garmin does some weird things as well. While I appreciate their frequent firmware updates, it seems like they end up fixing things that should have been tested before release. But then again, I guess that happens a lot in tech.


----------



## Oberkfell

Other than a color/touchscreen, I just don't get it. But, I'm 50 and I know it won't make me faster, stronger or better looking.


----------



## HIKESOLO

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I was just given the following information:

The Spartan Series is going to replace the Ambit series
It will have 3 different models.

*Suunto Spartan Ultra*
White or Black msrp $699 to $799 
Titanium msrp $799 to $899

*Suunto Spartan Racer*
msrp $549 to $649

*Suunto Spartan Trainer *
msrp $269 to $299

Interesting...


----------



## morey000

HIKESOLO said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I was just given the following information:
> 
> The Spartan Series is going to replace the Ambit series
> It will have 3 different models.
> 
> *Suunto Spartan Ultra*
> White or Black msrp $699 to $799
> Titanium msrp $799 to $899
> 
> *Suunto Spartan Racer*
> msrp $549 to $649
> 
> *Suunto Spartan Trainer *
> msrp $269 to $299
> 
> Interesting...


Actually, makes perfect sense. Same hierarchy as the Ambit 2 and 3 series. i.e. Peak, Sport, Run


----------



## Quotron

Oberkfell said:


> Other than a color/touchscreen, I just don't get it. But, I'm 50 and I know it won't make me faster, stronger or better looking.


I don't get the point of the color screen and touchscreen for an "adventure watch" but it seemed like a lot of people felt left out that Garmin had that color screen and they could download a fake Rolex watch face for it :roll: A touchscreen is likely going to be useless if wearing gloves; the color screen will eat the battery life needlessly, will be more difficult to see under direct sunlight. I do not see the benefit of these "enhancements" for a functional, training watch. They do, however, add a lot for a "lifestyle" watch...

ETA:



HIKESOLO said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I was just given the following information:
> 
> The Spartan Series is going to replace the Ambit series
> It will have 3 different models.
> 
> *Suunto Spartan Ultra*
> White or Black msrp $699 to $799
> Titanium msrp $799 to $899
> 
> *Suunto Spartan Racer*
> msrp $549 to $649
> 
> *Suunto Spartan Trainer *
> msrp $269 to $299
> 
> Interesting...


I think I'll just get a NIB A3P on discount. If it turns out the new Spartan Opulence performs better (battery life, GPS accuracy, etc...) then I'll eat my words, but I have a feeling my ludditism will not be misguided.


----------



## SavageSS

From the quick-start manual.
Through Movescount and the app, you can customize your watch....

This is the main reason (plus at the time needed vibration feedback) I jumped ship to the Garmin F3.

I can;t believe you are still tied into their website / phone app to customise the watch, doesn't look like it can be done without this.
This is where a F3 shines, not tied into anything if you want to configure the watch, which at times I do depending on alerts I want set up and the environment I'm in.


----------



## roguenode

I don't have a need to upgrade, but would do so for improved mapping/navigation features as long as the accuracy is comparable to my A3P. My worst case scenario would be it's as accurate as the A3P with mapping/nav not much better for my needs, BUT it includes the vertical's extra elevation features. I'd like those, but would not pay just for them. 

If I didn't know better, I'd look at Garmin's F3. But, I've had two of those and know others that currently have them. Terrible accuracy in the mountains.


----------



## backcountry

roguenode said:


> I don't have a need to upgrade, but would do so for improved mapping/navigation features as long as the accuracy is comparable to my A3P. My worst case scenario would be it's as accurate as the A3P with mapping/nav not much better for my needs, BUT it includes the vertical's extra elevation features. I'd like those, but would not pay just for them.
> 
> If I didn't know better, I'd look at Garmin's F3. But, I've had two of those and know others that currently have them. Terrible accuracy in the mountains.


 I mentioned it earlier but with the cannibalizing of the Ambit line (outdoors functions split off and migrated to the Traverse) and sports functions migrated toward the Spartan it looks like they are reverting back to their original model of watches that do specific tasks very well rather that one comprehensive package that leaves no one particularly happy or does nothing particularly well. To be frank, I don't really blame them a "one size fits all" isn't the best solution for this diverse a market.

Given what you just said it seems like you, like myself fall more into the outdoors camp than the sports one. I too would rather have better GPS accuracy, NAV functions, compass bearing locks and stuff like WAAS/EGONS corrections for standard GPS+GLONASS deviations than better stride analysis or swim stroke analysis. I really couldn't care less about the sports analytics. We just got to hope and pray for a raft of updates to the Traverse line or stupid awesome Traverse 2 (hopefully with a humidity sensor). 

What really astonishes me if the fact that all the Ambit Verticals and Traverse's have SiRF StarV GPS chipsets that come with all the signal correction stuff standard they just haven't turned it on? The Fenix had has this stuff since the get go? Makes no sense to me.


----------



## backcountry

roguenode said:


> I don't have a need to upgrade, but would do so for improved mapping/navigation features as long as the accuracy is comparable to my A3P. My worst case scenario would be it's as accurate as the A3P with mapping/nav not much better for my needs, BUT it includes the vertical's extra elevation features. I'd like those, but would not pay just for them.
> 
> If I didn't know better, I'd look at Garmin's F3. But, I've had two of those and know others that currently have them. Terrible accuracy in the mountains.


I mentioned it earlier but with the cannibalizing of the Ambit line (outdoors functions split off and migrated to the Traverse) and sports functions migrated toward the Spartan it looks like they are reverting back to their original model of watches that do specific tasks very well rather that one comprehensive package that leaves no one particularly happy or does nothing particularly well. To be frank, I don't really blame them a "one size fits all" isn't the best solution for this diverse a market.

Given what you just said it seems like you, like myself fall more into the outdoors camp than the sports one. I too would rather have better GPS accuracy, NAV functions, compass bearing locks and stuff like WAAS/EGONS corrections for standard GPS+GLONASS deviations than better stride analysis or swim stroke analysis. I really couldn't care less about the sports analytics. We just got to hope and pray for a raft of updates to the Traverse line or stupid awesome Traverse 2 (hopefully with a humidity sensor). 

What really astonishes me if the fact that all the Ambit Verticals and Traverse's have SiRF StarV GPS chipsets that come with all the signal correction stuff standard they just haven't turned it on? The Fenix had has this stuff since the get go? Makes no sense to me.


----------



## morey000

Quotron said:


> ...I have a feeling my ludditism will not be misguided.


no doubt. the A3P is a solid package. It will continue to be a tremendous watch with nearly every feature that you need (OK Vibe alerts and that bulbous antenna hump notwithstanding) for a great price. But- there's nothing wrong with Suunto putting out something more colorful and fancier and charging more money for it. it's their job. And we get to choose which product we want to buy.

so far, the Spartan Ultra has the potential to be a terrific, fun, capable and beautiful watch. But Garmin has been spitting out colorful new models pretty fast these days. I'm not sure what exactly is the compelling feature of the not yet available new Suunto's. Heck, at the rate they're working, Garmin might have an F4 out by the time the Spartan Ultras are available.

it's a dog eat dog world out there.


----------



## gimegime

SavageSS said:


> From the quick-start manual.
> Through Movescount and the app, you can customize your watch....
> 
> This is the main reason (plus at the time needed vibration feedback) I jumped ship to the Garmin F3.
> 
> I can;t believe you are still tied into their website / phone app to customise the watch, doesn't look like it can be done without this.
> This is where a F3 shines, not tied into anything if you want to configure the watch, which at times I do depending on alerts I want set up and the environment I'm in.


Well thats exactly true is it. You can configure the watch, just not all settings. Am genuinely interested what settings are so important to you that regularly update so often, that can't be done on the watch. I have heard this complaint many times over, and granted if I wanted to go do a ride and needed a particular function added, and couldn't, that would be irritating. But in using my watch every day for now 3 years this has never happened to me once.


----------



## gimegime

dcrainmaker said:


> Odd, I included one paragraph with some critical thinking. Beyond that, Suunto did little more than release a bunch of PR fluff today. I'm going to be critical of any company that does that. People here would have been upset had I not written at all about it. So if I'm going to write about it, I'm certainly going to include my thoughts on the subject (positive or negative). Surely that's why you came to read my post versus just a press release? Had I really wanted to riley folks up, I'd have dove into the 'competitive' statement on battery life. Competitive with what exactly? After all, there's no color touchscreen watch on the market today that's in this portion of the category. So either you're comparing against a touch smartwatch (generally bad battery - i.e. Vivoactive or something like the Apple Watch), or comparing against some color models (i.e. Fenix3).
> 
> More than all that though, Suunto continues to botch PR. Not from the standpoint of making me happy - I don't care about that - but from the standpoint of them running a business with the aim of increasing awareness of their products and why it might be cool. In fact, there's nothing in today's release that says "This is cool, here's why you should wait for it" or "This is super cool, let us hint at just one cool feature" or "Here's one sweet feature that nobody else has, well tell you a new feature each week". They had so much potential for a viral campaign, and it just went....thud.
> 
> I really want Suunto to deliver a viable competitor to the Fenix3, something that people go "Ahh...boom, yes!". But none of the information they released today says that (perhaps it will down the road). And that's fine, but it's just not a smart business move. For example, a Engadget or The Verge or similar isn't going to cover a company like Suunto (or even Garmin) them multiple times for a single product. You get one shot. And this time they wasted that shot on "just another fitness smartwatch, except that it that costs $800)", instead of "Here's a kick-ass watch that does all these things and this is why you should pay $800".


But what exactly is there to be critical about PR fluff? I don't see where Suunto promised the release of a product or the specs for anyone, including you to review. No production deadlines were missed, no promises not delivered. If this is Suunto's marketing strategy then only time will tell how successful it is or isn't.

Personally, I believe that what Suunto is doing, from a marketing perspective, is quite deliberate and designed to keep their new flagship watch in peoples minds without releasing enough material yet to be critiqued. Your point about Suunto missing the advantageous summer sales period works both ways. What it will do is make potential Garmin purchasers of the F3/735/920 think twice before jumping in as a new entrant is coming in 4 weeks. An entrant they either they nor DC Raymaker yet know anything about and therefore cannot compare.


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## newtonfb

gimegime said:


> But what exactly is there to be critical about PR fluff? I don't see where Suunto promised the release of a product or the specs for anyone, including you to review. No production deadlines were missed, no promises not delivered. If this is Suunto's marketing strategy then only time will tell how successful it is or isn't.
> 
> Personally, I believe that what Suunto is doing, from a marketing perspective, is quite deliberate and designed to keep their new flagship watch in peoples minds without releasing enough material yet to be critiqued. Your point about Suunto missing the advantageous summer sales period works both ways. What it will do is make potential Garmin purchasers of the F3/735/920 think twice before jumping in as a new entrant is coming in 4 weeks. An entrant they either they nor DC Raymaker yet know anything about and therefore cannot compare.


They may have not missed any deadlines but it is over 2 years now since the A3 Peak was released. You cannot call the traverse and verticals upgrades as they are minor changes. People are rooting for Suunto, myself included but they aren't making it easy.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## HIKESOLO

newtonfb said:


> They may have not missed any deadlines but it is over 2 years now since the A3 Peak was released. You cannot call the traverse and verticals upgrades as they are minor changes. People are rooting for Suunto, myself included but they aren't making it easy.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Did I miss the part where somebody called the Traverse or Vertical an upgrade? When Garmin released the Vivoactive HR not long ago did people call it an upgrade to the Fenix 3? No, because it's not. And neither are the Traverse or Vertical - they are just additional options. And specifically with the Traverse, a different target market.


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## newtonfb

HIKESOLO said:


> Did I miss the part where somebody called the Traverse or Vertical an upgrade? When Garmin released the Vivoactive HR not long ago did people call it an upgrade to the Fenix 3? No, because it's not. And neither are the Traverse or Vertical - they are just additional options. And specifically with the Traverse, a different target market.


Not sure why you are always yelling at everyone. Don't take everything personal. You act like you're a stockholder of suunto and we all want the place to burn down. In reality all of us on this forum own suunto products and are just discussing our opinions, nobody is right or wrong.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## gimegime

newtonfb said:


> They may have not missed any deadlines but it is over 2 years now since the A3 Peak was released. You cannot call the traverse and verticals upgrades as they are minor changes. People are rooting for Suunto, myself included but they aren't making it easy.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Stuunto usually release updates on a 2 year cycles in the past.....and the Ambit 3 Peak was announced in July 2014 by my rough calculations. So what am I missing here? And this is an entire new line of watch.


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## gimegime

Ahhhh my mistake. 1 year releases between the Ambits 1/2/3.


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## HIKESOLO

newtonfb said:


> HIKESOLO said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did I miss the part where somebody called the Traverse or Vertical an upgrade? When Garmin released the Vivoactive HR not long ago did people call it an upgrade to the Fenix 3? No, because it's not. And neither are the Traverse or Vertical - they are just additional options. And specifically with the Traverse, a different target market.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why you are always yelling at everyone. Don't take everything personal. You act like you're a stockholder of suunto and we all want the place to burn down. In reality all of us on this forum own suunto products and are just discussing our opinions, nobody is right or wrong.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Sorry I didn't realize expressing an alternate opinion meant I was yelling. Maybe you are right, I am pretty annoyed at this thread so maybe I should stop reading it. It gets tiring listening to people whine and complain about something that isn't even released. I wouldn't say I'm taking it personal, but I'm definitely calling people out on BS.


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## SavageSS

gimegime said:


> Well thats exactly true is it. You can configure the watch, just not all settings. Am genuinely interested what settings are so important to you that regularly update so often, that can't be done on the watch. I have heard this complaint many times over, and granted if I wanted to go do a ride and needed a particular function added, and couldn't, that would be irritating. But in using my watch every day for now 3 years this has never happened to me once.


Good for you.

I often have to go on Exercise with no internet connection and limited backup for battery.
The ability to change for example the GPS / recording function, for battery and capacity.

Often on the F3 before or even during a run I change the Slow pace alert (I only had the Ambit 1 and 2)

I also change the data fields when MTB depending on the track.

I actually do this a fair bit, knowing I can customise to suit the day.

The ability to save a POI, and (re)name it on the spot (this really annoyed me on the ambit) I could be week's out from Internet access and have to try and remember, or manually write down a POI to reference it later to know what it was.

But overall, just the ability to change it while sitting on my wrist, not having to tether or connect it, in itself is a great feature. 
It was an inconvenience to me when I had the Ambits, but now when using the F3 I know I'll find it more than a inconvenience when \ if going back, I just dislike the idea the watch is not configurable if you have no internet connection to MovesCount


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## gimegime

SavageSS said:


> Good for you.
> 
> I often have to go on Exercise with no internet connection and limited backup for battery.
> The ability to change for example the GPS / recording function, for battery and capacity.
> 
> Often on the F3 before or even during a run I change the Slow pace alert (I only had the Ambit 1 and 2)
> 
> I also change the data fields when MTB depending on the track.
> 
> I actually do this a fair bit, knowing I can customise to suit the day.
> 
> The ability to save a POI, and (re)name it on the spot (this really annoyed me on the ambit) I could be week's out from Internet access and have to try and remember, or manually write down a POI to reference it later to know what it was.
> 
> But overall, just the ability to change it while sitting on my wrist, not having to tether or connect it, in itself is a great feature.
> It was an inconvenience to me when I had the Ambits, but now when using the F3 I know I'll find it more than a inconvenience when \ if going back, I just dislike the idea the watch is not configurable if you have no internet connection to MovesCount


A week at a time without internet connection.....fair enough. I have an Ambit 1 but generally change my settings when I am uploading my data. So am thinking about what I am doing the next day etc. I don't change them that often but when needed.

This was fixed since Ambit 3 wasn't it, in that you can change all the settings via BT doesn't it? Thats what I thought anyway. So you wouldn't have this problem anymore.


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## SavageSS

gimegime said:


> A week at a time without internet connection.....fair enough. I have an Ambit 1 but generally change my settings when I am uploading my data. So am thinking about what I am doing the next day etc. I don't change them that often but when needed.
> 
> This was fixed since Ambit 3 wasn't it, in that you can change all the settings via BT doesn't it? Thats what I thought anyway. So you wouldn't have this problem anymore.


The other issue is my Phone is a Microsoft Lumia, running Windows 10 mobile (my work supply the phone)
Garmin released their Garmin Connect app for it, and it works well.

Unfortunately, I don't see Suunto supporting Windows phone anytime soon, or at all.

So I'm probably in the minority with running Windows mobile, but I actually really like it compared to my previous iPhone and Android phone.

I'm still looking forward to see what this watch brings, as there are some issues I really dislike with the F3, really a love / hate relationship with it.
 

Oh would also love to know if you can zoom in further than 200 metres with the Spartan ultra on a route / course. I find myself quite often zoomed in at 50 Metres or closer on some courses on the F3.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Have to say I'm with HikeSolo re. the marketing (and complaints about it).

Let's see: With the Traverse, Suunto was waiting until all and sundry (mis)information had been leaked via webshops, then they announced the Traverse (and the Kailash) with availability almost immediate when they were ready for that. The latter part of this was Suunto's SOP, and people were not happy about their crazy marketing/PR (and not saying anything concrete about a watch/watches that had been shown at an outdoors sports fair by then, iirc, was more than a little odd).

This time around, Suunto is doing teasers, announcing that something new is coming, and getting ready to announce the full feature list, apparently, in a little bit. Probably when they have worked out the kinks, the way I know them.

Which do you think would be the better approach for now? Should they have unchangingly released full specs only when they are absolutely certain of them, the way they did it before, so we could have speculated based on just the two leaks we'd had for another month? (And how good would that have done Suunto's sales during this summer buying period?)

(Where this concerns the bloggers, I'm sure happy I'm not focused on gear alone, not making my living off my blog, thus have it easier to avoid writing a preview/announcement now. I'd be critical of DCR's post, too - but seriously, something new coming and him not talking about it would not have gone down well with his audience. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Just like Suunto, apparently.)


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## silentvoyager

SavageSS said:


> I often have to go on Exercise with no internet connection and limited backup for battery.
> The ability to change for example the GPS / recording function, for battery and capacity.


To solve this I created several sport modes that are variations of exercise with different GPS settings / sensors. For example - Running, Indoor running, Trail running, Ultra.
Furthermore these sport modes could be switched in the middle of exercise by using a multi-sport capability - for example you can switch from 1 sec GPS recording to 60 sec and back without stopping activity. Too bad Suunto failed to advertise this ability.


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## Red PeeKay

Two hundred and sixty two posts and growing, all full of speculation, excitement and whinging. I think Suunto have hit this marketing strategy right on the head! And still the fish keep biting the bait less shiny hook! What an amusing thread! I only want Suunto to roll that "apparent" colour screen across the rest of their range. There has to be a better screen than the positive and negative displays they currently offer up. These are getting increasingly difficult to read with aging eyes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Miszka

Such teasing (ridiculuous 360' video) is amateurish. It looks unready for the big stage. The Spartan website looks like it was put together over the weekend (on squarespace it could take 15 mins). I'm with the DCR on this. The Spartan looks gorgeous, but I too prefer to salivate over ONE KILLER FEATURE, ie. new metrics, millitary grade GPS, wrist based power measurement. Something that could make me postpone the summer purchase, be it discounted Peak or Fenix3. Instead we get the infantile website, that looks like a panicky corking up of the leaks, not a valid kick start of a want/need campaign.


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## eeun

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Which do you think would be the better approach for now?


I just checked and I do have a life outside Suunto's next release. In short, I don't much care. Shame it will be so much more expensive than the Ambit2 Sapphire I enjoy using so I won't be buying one. Hey ho.


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## checker3

Uuups, suunto erased the prices on the website...


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## dcrainmaker

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Which do you think would be the better approach for now? Should they have unchangingly released full specs only when they are absolutely certain of them, the way they did it before, so we could have speculated based on just the two leaks we'd had for another month? (And how good would that have done Suunto's sales during this summer buying period?)


They should have just released the specs. Of course they know them. They've known them for months now - probably close to a year more likely. Things at this point are rock-solid when it comes to knowing what's in the unit. After all, hardware, components, boxes, manuals, etc... all have to be made, and lead times on some of those components are quite long.

Same goes for software development, especially in Europe where many people take off time in the summer months. Much of that development is likely done already too, with only finishing touches at this point.

For a bit of proof on how little PR uptick they got, note that neither Engadget or The Verge covered it. Nor did TechCrunch or really any major mainstream tech sites. Only generic press release copying sites did (ones that basically just automate the copy/paste of press releases, on a bit of an RSS-style system). Suunto hired an entirely new external PR team in the US recently, and they didn't manage to get traction at any of the big sites. Yet Pebble did just by announcing merely the addition of the 'fire' emoji. Really, it's true. Who made decisions on release? Suunto, or that external PR team? I'd bet a lot of money it wasn't the external PR team.

This all matters because in order for Suunto to be able to survive and succeed long term they have to engage a wider audience than just Watchuseek. They have to interest that wider audience. This isn't 3-5 years ago anymore, they're now competing against far more players, and far bigger players. It's not just against Garmin or Polar either. Yes, there will always be people here that buy a Suunto (or whomever) because they know of durability/etc. But the numbers here aren't big enough to sustain Suunto development costs.

Said more simply: If you're rooting for Suunto, then you really need root for them to understand how critical launching a product correctly is.


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## j_winston

dcrainmaker said:


> They should have just released the specs. Of course they know them.
> ...them to understand how critical launching a product correctly is.


Of course they understand how critical it is to launch a product correctly. They are not stupid - at least, not _that _stupid. 
In general it could be a bit lazy, albeit easy, to criticize them for being stupid in their marketing actions, need to remember that all their actions are done by deliberate decision, not by random.


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## matej123

I must say I am dissapointed. No real information obout watch, just crazy price. Nothing to look forward. No new functions, no informations abou battery life or any functions. And there si 2-3 months waiting. Not good Suunto, not good.


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## backcountry

Miszka said:


> Such teasing (ridiculuous 360' video) is amateurish. It looks unready for the big stage. The Spartan website looks like it was put together over the weekend (on squarespace it could take 15 mins). I'm with the DCR on this. The Spartan looks gorgeous, but I too prefer to salivate over ONE KILLER FEATURE, ie. new metrics, millitary grade GPS, wrist based power measurement. Something that could make me postpone the summer purchase, be it discounted Peak or Fenix3. Instead we get the infantile website, that looks like a panicky corking up of the leaks, not a valid kick start of a want/need campaign.


&#8230;..Aaaaaand we have a winner! Suunto's marketing strategy or perceived lack thereof has never really made sense to me. They HAVE the specs, they know exactly what works and what doesn't it would be naive to think otherwise. Even if they are having issues, telling us said feature would be rolled out through a later update makes far more sense than keeping everyone in the dark. It's not like garmin is going to magically incorporate that feature and kill it, that ship the LOOOOONG sailed away.

For every other model they released there was a hooking point, on the Ambit 1 it was the navigation/sports/outdoor combo and better GPS lock times over the X9/X10, Ambit 2 it was the apps, enhanced map and multi-sport functions and on the Ambit 3 the notifications and upgraded swimming functions. We knew about all these features at least two months in advance but they told us all of it from the get go and we planned our purchases accordingly. They even had detailed spec sheets up so we could compare it to our other models.

I tend to agree with DCR too. All we know about this watch is it has a touch screen, does some sports stuff and looks a little flashy. Big deal, lots of watches do that that. While I agree that DCR has a vested interest and is catering to a specific target audience he is not "wrong" for criticizing them. Suunto is not in a dammed if you do/dammed if you don't. Most criticism they deserve quite frankly. Just as an example, how long have we been asking for an offline Movescount platform let's say to fix the sync bugs? Every three day it's down for some silly reason and we're still waiting&#8230;

We're all Suunto customers here, I love my watch but I think you would be hard pressed to find one of us that wouldn't agree that they are getting their ass kicked by Garmin on the feature/hardware front (firmware/software maybe note). The Ambit/Traverse got vibration alerts after what 3 generations? I agree Suunto is a smaller company but but if a 8 person operation like Leikr can crank out a watch with active mapping that has more features than +280 plus employee Suunto something is terribly wrong.

As most companies target their launches for the North American summer season. Would it not make far more sense to tell people what at least two of the "hooking features" (touch screen isn't a hooking feature) are in the midst of arguably the biggest buying rush of the year when the weather is nice and people are motivated to get out and explore? Right now we're all running around guessing to our hearts content while most average buyers that don't read the forums are going screw this hogshit I know what features I want, Garmin or a whatever has them why not just get that versus waiting months for a watch that may give me nothing that I wanted or need. Quite a strategy, bravo!


----------



## backcountry

Miszka said:


> Such teasing (ridiculuous 360' video) is amateurish. It looks unready for the big stage. The Spartan website looks like it was put together over the weekend (on squarespace it could take 15 mins). I'm with the DCR on this. The Spartan looks gorgeous, but I too prefer to salivate over ONE KILLER FEATURE, ie. new metrics, millitary grade GPS, wrist based power measurement. Something that could make me postpone the summer purchase, be it discounted Peak or Fenix3. Instead we get the infantile website, that looks like a panicky corking up of the leaks, not a valid kick start of a want/need campaign.


&#8230;..Aaaaaand we have a winner! Suunto's marketing strategy or perceived lack thereof has never really made sense to me. They HAVE the specs, they know exactly what works and what doesn't it would be naive to think otherwise. Even if they are having issues, telling us said feature would be rolled out through a later update makes far more sense than keeping everyone in the dark. It's not like garmin is going to magically incorporate that feature and kill it, that ship has LOOOOONG sailed away.

For every other model they released there was a hooking point, on the Ambit 1 it was the navigation/sports/outdoor combo and better GPS lock times over the X9/X10, Ambit 2 it was the apps, enhanced map and multi-sport functions and on the Ambit 3 the notifications and upgraded swimming functions. We knew about all these features at least two months in advance but they told us all of it from the get go and we planned our purchases accordingly. They even had detailed spec sheets up so we could compare it to our other models.

I tend to agree with DCR too. All we know about this watch is it has a touch screen, does some sports stuff and looks a little flashy. Big deal, lots of watches do that that. While I agree that DCR has a vested interest and is catering to a specific target audience he is not "wrong" for criticizing them. Suunto is not in a dammed if you do/dammed if you don't. Most criticism they deserve quite frankly. Just as an example, how long have we been asking for an offline Movescount platform let's say to fix the sync bugs? Every three day it's down for some silly reason and we're still waiting&#8230;

We're all Suunto customers here, I love my watch but I think you would be hard pressed to find one of us that wouldn't agree that they are getting their ass kicked by Garmin on the feature/hardware front (firmware/software maybe note). The Ambit/Traverse got vibration alerts after what 3 generations? I agree Suunto is a smaller company but but if a 8 person operation like Leikr can crank out a watch with active mapping that has more features than +280 plus employee Suunto something is terribly wrong.

As most companies target their launches for the North American summer season. Would it not make far more sense to tell people what at least two of the "hooking features" (touch screen isn't a hooking feature) are in the midst of arguably the biggest buying rush of the year when the weather is nice and people are motivated to get out and explore? Right now we're all running around guessing to our hearts content while most average buyers that don't read the forums are going screw this hogshit I know what features I want, Garmin or a whatever has them why not just get that versus waiting months for a watch that may give me nothing that I wanted or need. Quite a strategy, bravo!


----------



## WEM

Hello everyone,

I'm new here and I'm following this thread and also the rest of the forum for a while now. After reading the big amount of posts I now decide to drop a few lines:

From the first view, the new Spartan Ultra look as a nice looking tool with interesting features to me.

What I don't understand is the discussion about quality of the "old" watches and movescount. We (me and my wife) own an Ambit2, an Ambit 2S and a Traverse. All watches do a solid and reliable job when mountaineering, hiking, trekking, climbing, ice climbing, snowshoeing, running and indoor training. I don't remember one single move in the last years, where the watch dind't work... and in the while we have done over 1000.
And yes, movescount: Suunto had some serious problems last year. They fixed it. I don't have real issues since autumn last year - and I use movescount x. times a week. Also moveslink2 does the job on all my computers.

And exaclty this is what I await of the new Spartan Ultra: a mordern watch with the reliability of the current ambit.

Smartphone sync, daily step tracker and Co. does not really matter... this are some nice to have allday jokes. The watch must do a good job when I'm out...

/WEM


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## WEM

backcountry said:


> &#8230;..Aaaaaand we have a winner! Suunto's marketing strategy or perceived lack thereof has never really made sense to me. They HAVE the specs, they know exactly what works and what doesn't it would be naive to think otherwise. Even if they are having issues, telling us said feature would be rolled out through a later update makes far more sense than keeping everyone in the dark. It's not like garmin is going to magically incorporate that feature and kill it, that ship has LOOOOONG sailed away.
> 
> For every other model they released there was a hooking point, on the Ambit 1 it was the navigation/sports/outdoor combo and better GPS lock times over the X9/X10, Ambit 2 it was the apps, enhanced map and multi-sport functions and on the Ambit 3 the notifications and upgraded swimming functions. We knew about all these features at least two months in advance but they told us all of it from the get go and we planned our purchases accordingly. They even had detailed spec sheets up so we could compare it to our other models.
> 
> I tend to agree with DCR too. All we know about this watch is it has a touch screen, does some sports stuff and looks a little flashy. Big deal, lots of watches do that that. While I agree that DCR has a vested interest and is catering to a specific target audience he is not "wrong" for criticizing them. Suunto is not in a dammed if you do/dammed if you don't. Most criticism they deserve quite frankly. Just as an example, how long have we been asking for an offline Movescount platform let's say to fix the sync bugs? Every three day it's down for some silly reason and we're still waiting&#8230;
> 
> We're all Suunto customers here, I love my watch but I think you would be hard pressed to find one of us that wouldn't agree that they are getting their ass kicked by Garmin on the feature/hardware front (firmware/software maybe note). The Ambit/Traverse got vibration alerts after what 3 generations? I agree Suunto is a smaller company but but if a 8 person operation like Leikr can crank out a watch with active mapping that has more features than +280 plus employee Suunto something is terribly wrong.
> 
> As most companies target their launches for the North American summer season. Would it not make far more sense to tell people what at least two of the "hooking features" (touch screen isn't a hooking feature) are in the midst of arguably the biggest buying rush of the year when the weather is nice and people are motivated to get out and explore? Right now we're all running around guessing to our hearts content while most average buyers that don't read the forums are going screw this hogshit I know what features I want, Garmin or a whatever has them why not just get that versus waiting months for a watch that may give me nothing that I wanted or need. Quite a strategy, bravo!


Two things:

Funny that the sync on my PC works without issues since months.

The other thing: a topo map would be nice to have, yes. But: Moving in open terrain (pathless - if there is a path I don't need route navigation...) in the mountains requires a good orientation sence, knowledge of the planned route.
The route navigation features (of the current Ambit) can help here a lot by giving hints, finding back and also navigating when the weather gets foggy or some problems occur.
A topo map can help a little bit more when you need to deviate the planned route. Normally the problem is, that people are missing the correct preparation before starting the tour: what are the key places - when I plan to be there - what is the number of pitches....
A new watch with nice features will not do the tourplanning for you...


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## the5krunner

all. i've had some answers from Suunto and some of them are below. I've not yet had a chance to colate the whole lot but i'll put them on my site for anyone who is interested. I haven't done it all yet and even if i had this site does not let me post links. 
Thought i would post a good few here as I looked through this thread to see what sort of questions you all wanted answering. There is some new info but also some of the answers are clearly waiting to be released as part of a managed strategy - like it or not. anyway without further ado:

1. is this the end of the line for ambit?

The Ambit family still offers a great GPS watch for consumers looking for solutions at a lower price point. In addition, the improvements and new features we are launching in Suunto Movescount now and during the rest of the year, are bringing Ambit users new value as well, making also the Suunto Ambit experience better than ever.

2. ie is this really the ambit 4. for all intents and purposes
A: The Suunto Spartan is our next generation GPS watch for athletic and adventure multisport, so it does indeed share a lot of similar functionality with the Ambit3 family. However there are many big changes too.

With the new Spartan family our goal is to provide consumers with the industry best tools to make progress.

Thus with the launch of the new Spartan offering we are renewing pretty much everything, including e.g. the key watch technologies, user interface and the way of showing information. We have also put a lot more emphasis on turning the measured data into insightful training information. Building on this, we are not just renewing our watches but also our movescount.com service and mobile apps - to provide these "training insights" across the board for a seamless and consistent user experience.

Furthermore, with the Spartan offering we will launch tools to make progress building on the movescount.com community data - tools such as heatmaps and peer group insights. We call these community powered progress tools.

So we really wanted to start from a clean-sheet to serve progress-minded consumers better than ever with the help of our consumers and community data. That's why we changed the branding and decided to call our offering Spartan.

Consequently, the Suunto Spartan offers many new exciting features that the Ambit3 family doesn't have. And the Suunto Spartan functionality will continue to grow during the remaining year both with tools to make progress and with tools to discover and adventure. Also worth noting is that *the Spartan family will not necessarily be carrying the exact same features as the Ambit3 family*.

4. what actually is the Spartan ultra? Ie positioning against other suunto variants and against garmin F3/735XT
This watch is meant for athletes and adventurers who want to to improve their performance, to get the most out of their sports. It'll become *the flagship product in the Suunto offering for athletic and adventure multisport*.

5. GPS antennae seems to be removed or of lower spec than before. is it in the bezel? or the band

Yes the GPS antenna is integrated inside the watch to achieve best possible fit and design*.*

6. does it log travel like the Kailash
No.

7. are all models sapphire glass other than the titanium
Yes.

8. it looks awesome. what would you say to users who say you've moved from your 'rugged' roots towards a fashion piece? (not me, I love the looks!)

Suunto Spartan Ultra is actually taking ruggedness to the next level with the introduction of titanium5 as a new material. Our design philosophy has always been about sophisticated roughness: we design products that you can take anywhere in terms of sports, but also in your daily life, both from the looks perspective as well as eg. fit and comfort of wearing them every day. So we do hope users see our products being more about timeless style than fashion items (if definition of "fashion" is something that quickly comes and goes).

9. 3 buttons: can touchscreen be meaningfully disabled? Lots of people are anti touchscreen.
A: Yes, the touch screen can be disabled during exercise. The Spartan Ultra gives perfect usability with buttons during sports*.*

10. what about winter users with gloves?
A: The touch screen works with thin gloves, but with winter gloves the buttons will serve the purpose.

11. how well do you anticipate the touchscreen working with moisture?
A: The touch screen is optimized to withstand disturbance from the environment. It can also be locked if needed to fully avoid interference.

12. what is battery life in race mode with all bells and whistles on?
A: *We will confirm the battery life details later, but it will be very competitive.*

13. what new feature areas are being included in the movescount revamp
This is already visible as the service is now live, but the main new features released now include heatmaps, new UI and new sports insights such as training load trend graph.

14. are there any more unusual things like STRYD support and EPOC (already there) and Muscle oxygen ie things that Garmin don't have

We continue to support running power with *Stryd and Epoc is there as it has been. Muscle oxygen is not on the list.*

15. is it poss to turn off the colour and go to BW mode
A: We give different options on how to use the screen, e.g. watch faces in different colours and sport screen inverting but not exactly black and white.

16. how many stages can multisport have - i'm thinking of a LONG repeated BRICK session RBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBR
This detail gets confirmed later.

17. can transitions be turned on/off
This detail will get confirmed later

18. What's missing from the ambit 3 sports that's in the Spartan ultra

The Ambit line and the Spartan Ultra are two different product families, and not directly comparable as such. In Spartan Ultra, the colour screen and the resolution enables much richer displays in general and *more information on screen*. Also the essential training concepts of training load, rest and recovery and following your progress will be covered in a great way on the watch.

19. presumably it's not androidwear. does it come with new software features that existing/new suunto apps can plug in to?
*The Suunto Spartan will not be compatible with the Suunto Apps*

20. waterproofing to 100m? or 50m?
To 100m.

21. any improvements to the already good satellite fix?
*The GPS performance of Spartan Ultra is similar to Ambit3 Peak, i.e. very good*

22. steps!!? Is it an activity tracker?
A more comprehensive daily activity tracking has actually been a feature requested quite often by our customers, so we've decided to include it in the Spartan ultra.


----------



## Ridgeback63

I much prefer Suunto over Garmin any day,and I'm happy with movescount,so I will be having a Spartan ultra,just not sure which yet.


----------



## bruceames

As long as the GPS accuracy is on par with the A3P then I'll probably get it sometime next year after the price drops to a reasonable level. Bummer about no apps though, but good news about disabling the touch screen during exercise.


----------



## backcountry

WEM said:


> Two things:
> 
> Funny that the sync on my PC works without issues since months.
> 
> The other thing: a topo map would be nice to have, yes. But: Moving in open terrain (pathless - if there is a path I don't need route navigation...) in the mountains requires a good orientation sence, knowledge of the planned route.
> The route navigation features (of the current Ambit) can help here a lot by giving hints, finding back and also navigating when the weather gets foggy or some problems occur.
> A topo map can help a little bit more when you need to deviate the planned route. Normally the problem is, that people are missing the correct preparation before starting the tour: what are the key places - when I plan to be there - what is the number of pitches....
> A new watch with nice features will not do the tour planning for you...


Yeah, I've had pretty spotty Movescount service recently. No issues with my Ambit3 but it's been pretty annoying with my Traverse Alpha, seems to be getting better *fingers crossed*. Of course, no one expected it to do the tour planning for us. I'm simply saying they've had all the tools and hardware to make the last few generations amazing they just don't and it makes no sense as to why they don't (staged makes sense from a profit standpoint but your offering should be somewhat comparable to your competition not several generations behind).

F1 = A1/A2
F2 = A3-ish
F3 = ??

Apple suffers from this too but they don't bridge the gaps because most times they dont have the hardware sitting in there. These clowns have the hardware but do zippo with it, they are paying a premium to not use it? I don't buy the small company so they can't do as much argument either. Like why does it not have WAAS/EGNOS track or POI corrections? The chips all handle all that stuff and it's all sitting there. In fact, it's been sitting there since the Ambit 1, a couple lines of code and we're off to the races. I mean there are two ways to compete. Get out ahead of the competition or play catch up. Suunto seems to playing catch-up but they only do 1/4 of what was added by the other guys in the "new features". It's a very mild example but why doesn't it have music control or scrollable notifications? Most of us listen to music while we run of such, it could easily do this in the background but no. Scrollable notification just seems logical, our phones aren't always handy (in our packs, etc.) but again no. Garmin thought ahead and figured not everyone will use it but some might find these features very helpful. If Suunto wants to compete with the Spartan/Traverse they need to start thinking ahead from a hardware perspective and tap-able firmware that utilizes it all.


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## wydim

This Q&A is extremely well done and I'm very satisfied of the answers they provided about the touch screen and the ruggednessless that some people were afraid of.


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## bruceames

wydim said:


> This Q&A is extremely well done and I'm very satisfied of the answers they provided about the touch screen and the ruggednessless that some people were afraid of.


Since this is going to have a touch screen, I wonder if this will have a lot of the core smartwatch features (ie, if this is a full-blown smartwatch). I use the Apple watch as a day watch, but if this will do the essential things I use my Apple watch for then they would be a huge plus for me. I really don't need the fancy color touch screen if it's only going to be used for moves.


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## Pegasus

Is the Traverse part of the Ambit line or a stand alone product?

They refer a lot to Ambit line but unsure where this sits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roguenode

the5krunner said:


> all. i've had some answers from Suunto and some of them are below. I've not yet had a chance to colate the whole lot but i'll put them on my site for anyone who is interested. I haven't done it all yet and even if i had this site does not let me post links.
> Thought i would post a good few here as I looked through this thread to see what sort of questions you all wanted answering. There is some new info but also some of the answers are clearly waiting to be released as part of a managed strategy - like it or not. anyway without further ado:
> 
> ......


Thanks for posting this! A mix of good info and marketing speak from Suunto. Nothing I've heard yet to get me excited about leaving my A3P. If you happen to hear anything or have an opportunity to ask about mapping/nav changes (variable zoom? map loading? POIs and multiple tracks on same view during activity, anything else for that matter), please pass it along.


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## wydim

I've re-read the entire Q&A. Although it adresses the main concerns about touchscreen/buttons usability during moves or bad weather (rain) and ruggedness. They've failed to mention even 1 new feature of the watch.

when they write : "Consequently, the Suunto Spartan offers many new exciting features that the Ambit3 family doesn't have". They never say which one! Sure, you could argue that a color touchscreen is a feature by itself, but I'm sensing the athlete in everyone of us is impatient to know HOW will it make us "progess" (their word)

the most important paragraph for me is this one : 
"_With the new Spartan family our goal is to provide consumers with the industry best tools to make progress.__

Thus with the launch of the new Spartan offering we are renewing pretty much everything, including e.g. the *key watch technologies*, *user interface and the way of showing information*. We have also put a lot more emphasis on *turning the measured data into insightful training information*. Building on this, we are not just renewing our watches but also our movescount.com service and mobile apps - to provide these "training insights" across the board for a seamless and consistent user experience.

__Furthermore, with the Spartan offering we will launch tools to make progress building on the movescount.com community data - tools such as heatmaps and peer group insights. We call these community powered progress tools._"

but apart from new Movescount offering ("training insight" will be available for Ambit moves also!) what does the WATCH offer over the ambit3? I think the answer is simply : color touchscreen and new design (and presumably more navigational features like zoom or underlayed map). Maybe it's not enough for some, but it's enough for me ! (but I'm not talking about price...)


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## backcountry

Pegasus said:


> Is the Traverse part of the Ambit line or a stand alone product?
> 
> They refer a lot to Ambit line but unsure where this sits.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From a marketing perspective the Ambit and Traverse are different watches. From a hardware perspective they are literally identical right down to the chips and screws. Think of the Ambit Vertial and the Traverse as the same watch. The Traverse is a tuned-down Ambit with a few more software based "outdoor" features (on the Traverse Alpha model like shot detection for hunting, fishing modes and a moon phase calendar). Other than that pretty much the same.

The venerable Ambit3 Peak which most people refer to is the current gold standard, very similar but also a little different. The Peak models have better GPS reception (has an antenna bulge) and does not have the same features as the Ambit3 Vertial (mostly just the altitude graph when in a "move" or the vibration alerts). Hope that helps.


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## Pegasus

backcountry said:


> From a marketing perspective the Ambit and Traverse are different watches. From a hardware perspective they are literally identical right down to the chips and screws. Think of the Ambit Vertial and the Traverse as the same watch. The Traverse is a tuned-down Ambit with a few more software based "outdoor" features (on the Traverse Alpha model like shot detection for hunting, fishing modes and a moon phase calendar). Other than that pretty much the same.
> 
> The venerable Ambit3 Peak which most people refer to is the current gold standard, very similar but also a little different. The Peak models have better GPS reception (has an antenna bulge) and does not have the same features as the Ambit3 Vertial (mostly just the altitude graph when in a "move" or the vibration alerts). Hope that helps.


Many thanks for your reply 

Just wondering if the Traverse will become Traverse 2 when upgraded or whether both the Vertical and Traverse were almost test models for the new Spartan with regard to the integrated GPS chip etc

I have the Traverse and either way it's a great watch and has the functions I require at a good price point 

Not that I won't look at the Spartan when it's released but the price is an issue to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## morey000

the5krunner said:


> all. i've had some answers from Suunto and some of them are below. I....


Thanks 5K. that's a great list of questions and answers. We can now see where Suunto is going with the new product. Of course- it has nice packaging, color screen, multisport, etc. those are now 'requirements' to be at all competitive in the market. The touch screen + buttons, seems like a solid offer as well, and we all hope that claim that GPS accuracy will be on par with the A3P is true.

They seem to be pursuing one of those holy grails of the multisport athlete- a fused sport performance manager. I actually think this is a suggestion that I made on this forum many months ago. Visible tools on the watch, to help manage your fatigue and training load planning. Depending on how well this is done, it could indeed be the 'killer app' differentiator. So many questions remain on what will be included in this and how usable it will be. i.e. they could have a built in app that calculates running power, and generate a TSS for a run. 

Interesting that it won't use the current Apps. I wonder if they'll be a new set of tools for this watch. I've got a bunch of apps that I currently use. Would hate to lose the customization capability.

I like the look and feel of Movescount. I'd rather stay with that platform if possible. But ya' know. it's not like a 745xt would be a bad purchase.


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## Quotron

Didn't they claim that the Traverse and Vertical would have GPS performance on par with the Peak? How did that work out?



wydim said:


> I've re-read the entire Q&A. Although it adresses the main concerns about touchscreen/buttons usability during moves or bad weather (rain) and ruggedness. They've failed to mention even 1 new feature of the watch.


Maybe they're testing the hardware (new-ish gps antenna, touchscreen, 2 fewer buttons, etc..) and are running a modified Ambit OS for testing purposes. If there are new features, they would likely be announced at a later date when the software side is fully implemented. Just a WAG though...


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## backcountry

Pegasus said:


> Many thanks for your reply
> 
> Just wondering if the Traverse will become Traverse 2 when upgraded or whether both the Vertical and Traverse were almost test models for the new Spartan with regard to the integrated GPS chip etc
> 
> I have the Traverse and either way it's a great watch and has the functions I require at a good price point
> 
> Not that I won't look at the Spartan when it's released but the price is an issue to me.


Well, yes and no. My hunch is the Traverse will live on for a while as they need something heavy-duty outdoors focused especially since they made such a concerted effort to court that market segment (fishing and hunters with the Traverse Alpha). Makes no sense to throw it all down the drain and jumble everything up again. At this point in time the Spartan doesn't look like it will address those needs (no mention of storm alarm, etc.). If that was the intention I'm sure they would have included a "Map" or "Elevation" view or something in the teaser pics to get everyone on side or at the very least peak curiosity. I wouldn't be surprised if they slowly start migrating the more complex nav/compass based firmware code from the Ambit3 over to say the Traverse Alpha and call it the Traverse 2 next year with a few updates and leave the base Traverse "1" if you will as a simple and easy to use watch for novices. That way they keep everyone happy in the outdoors/NAV segment (folks like me) and the sports/fitness guys happy with the Spartan rather than having a bunch of thrilled sports guys and thoroughly annoyed outdoors guys the throw in the towel and just move over to Garmin. It always used to piss me off when the Ambit 1/2/3 would get a raft of new sports related things and the GPS/NAV stayed largely the same as it did on the Ambit 1 (for the most part).

Based on their past history, an educated guess would suggest the Ambit Vertical will likely be killed off (after one or two more minor software "updates" in the coming months) as the lower price point would probably start carving into Spartan sales for a very similar product that one could argue has a greater level of use (with the apps you can make the watch do almost anything you want). They spent all that money to design and build a new watch only to have the previous model beat it because of pricing? Not gonna happen. In fact, it wouldn't really cost them anything to end production of the Vertical as both the Traverse and Vertical lines are so modular and share all the same components (from a manufacturing perspective the one real difference is the colour of the composite they pour into the molds). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they have already nixed production of the Vertical and are just selling off whatever is left while working towards updating a few things on the firmware end so "late adopters" don't feel cheated. Once that is gone, it's gone for good!

Just my two cents, hang on to your Traverse and replace it only if you have a warranty issue or they release a Traverse 2 or something heavily "outdoors based" to take its place. Strictly from an outdoors perspective the Spartan appears to be lacking over the Ambit/Traverse at this point in time and with no clear memory specs (one of the reasons they could have nixed the app feature) we don't know if it even comes with preloaded map (highly doubt it though). I'd love to be proven wrong of course but as Suunto history has proven even the Ambits were a step back from the 2004-2009 X9/10 on many core features (they used to have alarm POI points and stuff where you could set the radius and it would chime if you were in or near that radius). Fingers crossed for an Traverse 2 or a supercharged Spartan when they finally get down to telling us in the year 2056 what it actually can do.


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## newtonfb

backcountry said:


> Well, yes and no. My hunch is the Traverse will live on for a while as they need something heavy-duty outdoors focused especially since they made such a concerted effort to court that market segment (fishing and hunters with the Traverse Alpha). Makes no sense to throw it all down the drain and jumble everything up again. At this point in time the Spartan doesn't look like it will address those needs (no mention of storm alarm, etc.). If that was the intention I'm sure they would have included a "Map" or "Elevation" view or something in the teaser pics to get everyone on side or at the very least peak curiosity. I wouldn't be surprised if they slowly start migrating the more complex nav/compass based firmware code from the Ambit3 over to say the Traverse Alpha and call it the Traverse 2 next year with a few updates and leave the base Traverse "1" if you will as a simple and easy to use watch for novices. That way they keep everyone happy in the outdoors/NAV segment (folks like me) and the sports/fitness guys happy with the Spartan rather than having a bunch of thrilled sports guys and thoroughly annoyed outdoors guys the throw in the towel and just move over to Garmin. It always used to piss me off when the Ambit 1/2/3 would get a raft of new sports related things and the GPS/NAV stayed largely the same as it did on the Ambit 1 (for the most part).
> 
> Based on their past history, an educated guess would suggest the Ambit Vertical will likely be killed off (after one or two more minor software "updates" in the coming months) as the lower price point would probably start carving into Spartan sales for a very similar product that one could argue has a greater level of use (with the apps you can make the watch do almost anything you want). They spent all that money to design and build a new watch only to have the previous model beat it because of pricing? Not gonna happen. In fact, it wouldn't really cost them anything to end production of the Vertical as both the Traverse and Vertical lines are so modular and share all the same components (from a manufacturing perspective the one real difference is the colour of the composite they pour into the molds). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they have already nixed production of the Vertical and are just selling off whatever is left while working towards updating a few things on the firmware end so "late adopters" don't feel cheated. Once that is gone, it's gone for good!
> 
> Just my two cents, hang on to your Traverse and replace it only if you have a warranty issue or they release a Traverse 2 or something heavily "outdoors based" to take its place. Strictly from an outdoors perspective the Spartan appears to be lacking over the Ambit/Traverse at this point in time and with no clear memory specs (one of the reasons they could have nixed the app feature) we don't know if it even comes with preloaded map (highly doubt it though). I'd love to be proven wrong of course but as Suunto history has proven even the Ambits were a step back from the 2004-2009 X9/10 on many core features (they used to have alarm POI points and stuff where you could set the radius and it would chime if you were in or near that radius). Fingers crossed for an Traverse 2 or a supercharged Spartan when they finally get down to telling us in the year 2056 what it actually can do.


Im with you. I use my A3 Peak pretty much for backpacking. I run and MTB occasionally with it, and use it as a daily watch also, but I use it for backpacking. The traverse was supposed to geared toward me (hiking in the mountains) but I dont see why I would give up my Peak when it does pretty much everything the same or better. I usually go for days on end, so the 200hr battery life I get with my Peak is phenomenal. The Traverse only get 100hrs. The only thing missing from the Peak compared to the new watches is the altitude profile, which makes me pretty upset because all the watches are running the same software so theres no reason why it shouldn't get the update. With that said, I'm not spending $400 just for that feature alone. With the new ultra, I just cant see myself spending $700 for it, especially when battery life is one of the features I care about most and they are hesitant to release what it is.


----------



## primus

Has anyone found the information about the screen size and especially the screen resolution for Suunto Spartan Ultra?


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## Miszka

This is interesting, first time we can see the display "on". 
Source: Suunto Spartan Ultra : mieux que la Fenix 3 ?


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## ModestGP

Miszka said:


> This is interesting, first time we can see the display "on".
> Source: Suunto Spartan Ultra : mieux que la Fenix 3 ?
> View attachment 8382162


It looks like as it was a sticker on top of the screen.


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## Miszka

D'oh!


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## roots_n_rocks

HIKESOLO said:


> I'm in. Where should I send the money?!


Sorry mate but it seems that this product isn't for you.
20 post for a single gps watch, i a couple of days means your spend more time time web surfing than training (if you are training at all....)


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## HIKESOLO

roots_n_rocks said:


> Sorry mate but it seems that this product isn't for you.
> 20 post for a single gps watch, i a couple of days means your spend more time time web surfing than training (if you are training at all....)


Actually, if you must know - I spend a good chunk of my day each day in my home office reviewing media contracts, earning money to support my family. Reviewing contracts can be tough on the eyes, so yes, I take frequent short breaks to do things like browse this forum. I thought your post was funny and responded. I'll try not to do that again, my bad.

And I'm not training for anything. I primarily hike and walk. So yes, this watch is overkill for me, but I enjoy the tech and am excited about this watch.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

roots_n_rocks said:


> Sorry mate but it seems that this product isn't for you.
> 20 post for a single gps watch, i a couple of days means your spend more time time web surfing than training (if you are training at all....)


You mustn't have read the promotional material closely enough. After all, you're using logic, but the Spartan Ultra is Beyond Logic


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## bruceames

I would just ignore roots. Most of his posts are bait and/or digs at people (and at Suunto) and full of negativity and a long-held bitterness at Suunto.


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## ModestGP

I must say that until Gerald or DC rainmaker doesn't write a review of the product I will wait to make an opinion.
I have a great expectation on this new watch and I hope that it will meet them.
Time will tell....
Until then, I will look out for any new news.
Cheers.


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## backcountry

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> You mustn't have read the promotional material closely enough. After all, you're using logic, but the Spartan Ultra is Beyond Logic


There ya go! There is that "hooking" feature I was searching high and low for. Who needs GPS accuracy and all that other nonsense when you a can look logic square in the eye, tame it and defy it wit the Spartan! Hot damn, sign me up! lol


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## Miszka

MG Designs said:


> I must say that until Gerald or DC rainmaker doesn't write a review of the product I will wait to make an opinion.
> I have a great expectation on this new watch and I hope that it will meet them.
> Time will tell....
> Until then, I will look out for any new news.
> Cheers.


See you in November, then


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## snowleopardw

To be able to post links or images your post count must be greater. You currently have *0 posts.*


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## snowleopardw

To be able to post links or images your post count must be greater. You currently have *1 posts.*


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## snowleopardw




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## morey000

Now I get it! The blank screen displays are actually showing off a new feature: the new Spartan Ultra transmits data directly via *mental telepathy*!


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## HIKESOLO

My source told me his Suunto rep let him know he'd be bringing in a working model of the Spartan Ultra to his shop soon. He asked me to compile a list of questions that we'd like to have answered about it. Please feel free to DM me a list of questions you'd like answered and my guy said he will do his best to have them answered.


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## Joakim Agren

snowleopardw said:


> To be able to post links or images your post count must be greater. You currently have *1 posts.*


If you have an interesting link or image send it to me in a PM and I will post it for you!

I must say to not launch until the end of the summer is somewhat of a bummer. Considering the short life cycles of these products ( 2 years) to miss nearly the entire main outdoors season here in the Northern hemisphere is a substantial loss in the usable life span for those customer groups that always want the latest gadgets! So Suunto is missing out on some money here...:rodekaart


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## raducanmihai

HIKESOLO said:


> My source told me his Suunto rep let him know he'd be bringing in a working model of the Spartan Ultra to his shop soon. He asked me to compile a list of questions that we'd like to have answered about it. Please feel free to DM me a list of questions you'd like answered and my guy said he will do his best to have them answered.


Ask him to take some pictures of the working screen (preferably outside, in the sun). Thank's.


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## skinnie

gimegime said:


> Well thats exactly true is it. You can configure the watch, just not all settings. Am genuinely interested what settings are so important to you that regularly update so often, that can't be done on the watch. I have heard this complaint many times over, and granted if I wanted to go do a ride and needed a particular function added, and couldn't, that would be irritating. But in using my watch every day for now 3 years this has never happened to me once.


Well that happened to me in the past two days...a 180km bike ride, where my speed/cadence sensor was malfunctioned, and I couldn't turn off am simply use gps data, because I need a computer with movescount (suunto ambit 2 here).
I don't know if the ambit 3 and newer watches can have the profiles changed via phone, but still you need to have a smartphone with internet acess and that the movescount app works...


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## gimegime

skinnie said:


> Well that happened to me in the past two days...a 180km bike ride, where my speed/cadence sensor was malfunctioned, and I couldn't turn off am simply use gps data, because I need a computer with movescount (suunto ambit 2 here).
> I don't know if the ambit 3 and newer watches can have the profiles changed via phone, but still you need to have a smartphone with internet acess and that the movescount app works...


Not sure what malfunctioned means, but not sure what you mean by can't turn off. As in it kept connecting to the malfunctioning speed sensor.

And , no you don't need wifi access to change speed/cadence sensor on an Ambit 3. Yes you need a smartphone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WatchFreak_71

Any idea does it support Suunto Apps? I couldn't find the info at Suunto web site.


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## skinnie

gimegime said:


> Not sure what malfunctioned means, but not sure what you mean by can't turn off. As in it kept connecting to the malfunctioning speed sensor.
> 
> And , no you don't need wifi access to change speed/cadence sensor on an Ambit 3. Yes you need a smartphone.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For example the cadence part of the sensor was working but not the speed part.
Ok, if it can be changed with a smarthphone. wihtout wifi less bad, still I would prefer to be able to change it on the watch...


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## Rem_

WatchFreak_71 said:


> Any idea does it support Suunto Apps? I couldn't find the info at Suunto web site.


Seen on the 5krunner.com "The Suunto Spartan will not be compatible with the Suunto Apps"


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## WatchFreak_71

Rem_ said:


> Seen on the 5krunner.com "The Suunto Spartan will not be compatible with the Suunto Apps"


What a shame.  Why Suunto is downgrading their "flagship" products in terms of features?


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## newtonfb

WatchFreak_71 said:


> What a shame.  Why Suunto is downgrading their "flagship" products in terms of features?


I'm sure they'll have something for apps. Little surprised it's not backward compatible though as the suunto apps are pretty basic

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## raducanmihai

Ok, my thoughts on Spartan Ultra:
- We need to see that display in the sun. For an outdoor watch outdoor visibility is key;
- GPS accuracy - we need some real life comparison with Ambit 3 Peak;
- I hope they enabled 4 data screens/display during a move;
- Price is outrageous. We need some Black Fridays...


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## Quotron

WatchFreak_71 said:


> What a shame.  Why Suunto is downgrading their "flagship" products in terms of features?


If the watch contains a new operating system then the apps that are available for the Ambit series would not work. I'm not sure that's a "downgrade" but YMMV...


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## WatchFreak_71

Quotron said:


> If the watch contains a new operating system then the apps that are available for the Ambit series would not work. I'm not sure that's a "downgrade" but YMMV...


The "Apps" are just scripts, not binary code, so porting the script engine to new OS wouldn't be that big task...


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## Hecke

HIKESOLO said:


> he will do his best to have them answered.


Thanks for asking!

- Can he try the touchscreen in various humid environments? Sweaty hands, rain, under water, wet from just out of the water...
- Touch screen functionality with dry hands (right after washing with a lot of soap, so no grease on the hands), cold hands, different kinds of gloves...

- Please have him ask again about apps. I am pretty sure that if they leave it out, it is just be disabling it in the software. If there is enough demand...

- GPS accuracy comparison to the A3P would be nice, but I guess he will not be allowed to take the watch for a longer hike in the woods.

- I am mostly interested in the battery life. But this also takes quite a lot of time to figure out. Especially as there seems to be a number of different settings to fiddle with the battery life.

- What kind of GPS/Glonass-chip is in the watch?

- What wireless protocols are supported? Just BT LE?

- How are the customization options? All the info we have hint towards a handful of sports modes and that's it. Or are they only predefined and we can still create new ones?

- Oh and also pass along that the leaked prices are ridiculously expensive. I hope this will play out a bit lower when the watch hits the stores.

cheers
Hecke


----------



## HIKESOLO

No clue what the video says, but it has the Spartan Racer pics at the end.


----------



## checker3

Here are some screen savings...


----------



## Hecke

darn, no color maps (yet). I hoped they at least draw those from a connected smartphone. But another line to follow. Hey, it's blue now :-(


----------



## checker3

And the weight of the SPARTAN RACER seems to be 71g (Titanum ULTRA 73g; ULTRA 77g)


----------



## rdm01

I wonder if the display can be inverted or it has to have dark background full time...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## MoLu

Interesting that they write something about "SPARTAN*+*" next to the swimming screen (00:39).


----------



## newtonfb

Anyone see anything about battery life in the video?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## HIKESOLO

MoLu said:


> Interesting that they write something about "SPARTAN*+*" next to the swimming screen (00:39).


I originally posted that my source mentioned a possible optical HR version, but ultimately decided to edit the post and remove since I haven't seen any other hints at that. He specifically mentioned it wouldn't work during swimming and that a HR strap would be required then...but I'm going to wait and see if any other news comes out about a potential built-in HR version. As of now most signs point to no.


----------



## MoLu

newtonfb said:


> Anyone see anything about battery life in the video?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I absolutely don't know any Hebrew, but I did spot a '100' a few times in the ultra (and a '5' on the same slide) and a '50' in the racer section, maybe that had something to do with the battery? I don't expect any difference in water resistance levels for those two models, so it certainly could be the battery.


----------



## margusl

Hehh.. vid taken down [:
But from that Raceer slide I have something in my Google Translate history:
"BLACK 71 chrome water resistant to 50 meters which steel mineral crystal lens, silicon strap"


----------



## checker3




----------



## morey000

rdm01 said:


> I wonder if the display can be inverted or it has to have dark background full time...
> 
> deporteporvida.com


don't make me find it, but in one of the lists of features of the Ultra, it did specifically state that you could invert the display. I've found that feature useful on the LCD displays in certain conditions. How useful that will be on the new display... remains to be seen.


----------



## robbf213

Titanium black? I'm in!


----------



## breefmark

Here's another video, this time in Czech:





Most of the pictures in the video are known already, but there's also a photo of the Spartan in direct sunlight.


----------



## breefmark

Some more pictures with the screen turned on, taken at the Gigathlon event:

https://www.facebook.com/temposportshop/photos/pcb.1152879681400184/1152872354734250/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/temposportshop/photos/pcb.1152879681400184/1152872334734252/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/temposportshop/photos/pcb.1152879681400184/1152872391400913/?type=3&theater

Official launch date seems to be July 6, with availability sometime in August.


----------



## Hecke

Thanks for the pics!
But:
Are that scratches at 12:00 in the first image? That is kind of my fear with the Spartan Ultra: The smaller bezel (and supposedly less setback of the lens to the bezel compared to the Ambits) make the glass much more vulnerable.

Sapphire users: How strong is sapphire glass? I guess crashing on rooty/rocky trails will harm it similarly to the minreal glass. No?
thanks
Hecke


----------



## Pirk

Such a strange launch. They have the units. Why not do a press preview at their location where reporters/bloggers could try the watch and tell us about the features now. Competitors do this. Now the features will be spread thin over the next weeks and the official "launch" will be old news.


----------



## Ivo P

Hecke said:


> Thanks for the pics!
> But:
> Are that scratches at 12:00 in the first image? That is kind of my fear with the Spartan Ultra: The smaller bezel (and supposedly less setback of the lens to the bezel compared to the Ambits) make the glass much more vulnerable.
> 
> Sapphire users: How strong is sapphire glass? I guess crashing on rooty/rocky trails will harm it similarly to the minreal glass. No?
> thanks
> Hecke


Scratches? nooo, you need a diamond to scratch sapphire crystal, or anything with similar toughness. That is per my opinion basic smudge from sweat or fingerprint.

Though your concern for the crystal is real, it can brake if hit with a rock.


----------



## eeun

I don't know if this is new info but it's from the Suunto UK website pages and shows availability and prices in euros.


----------



## wydim

I just hope that for this price, the "mickey mouse watch face" with his hands pointing to numbers, will be available for use...


----------



## bruceames

wydim said:


> I just hope that for this price, the "mickey mouse watch face" with his hands pointing to numbers, will be available for use...


At that price I expect it to be a full-blown smartwatch. I use the Apple watch as a day watch, so for me to consider this at that price, it would be replacing both my A3P and the Apple watch. It would be nice to have one watch that tracks all my activity.


----------



## newtonfb

bruceames said:


> At that price I expect it to be a full-blown smartwatch. I use the Apple watch as a day watch, so for me to consider this at that price, it would be replacing both my A3P and the Apple watch. It would be nice to have one watch that tracks all my activity.


You're going to be sadly mistaken. It will show you your notifications but that's it. You won't be able to reply or anything like that. With the way I've seen suunto mobile apps develop over the last few years it's just a wild guess.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## bruceames

newtonfb said:


> You're going to be sadly mistaken. It will show you your notifications but that's it. You won't be able to reply or anything like that. With the way I've seen suunto mobile apps develop over the last few years it's just a wild guess.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I expect to be disappointed in that regard, but at that price I would expect something like that because it is an $800 touch screen watch. Anyway I'm happy sticking with the combo of the Apple watch and A3P. Just would be nice to have a single activity tracker because I do get some indirect exercise outside of the Move "arena".


----------



## bruceames

robbf213 said:


> I was expecting more features for the price...


I don't think we know all of the features yet. Speaking of which, it is odd they release the price (which they know will be perceived as very high) but not (all) the specs. It's like they are saying "here's the bad news, we'll tell you the good news after the peak summer season is over". Great marketing tactic. *sarcasm*


----------



## newtonfb

My guess is alot of R&D went into this watch. I believe after they saw the Fenix 3 success they probably had to scrap or modify what they had planned for the Ambit 4 and make this happen.

Also on a side note, (I doubt has any impact on price) I don't believe the vertical or traverse sold very well. You could make an argument, they are trying to make up the losses for those. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## raducanmihai

robbf213 said:


> I was expecting more features for the price...


I was expecting less price for the features...


----------



## ModestGP

newtonfb said:


> My guess is alot of R&D went into this watch. I believe after they saw the Fenix 3 success they probably had to scrap or modify what they had planned for the Ambit 4 and make this happen.
> 
> Also on a side note, (I doubt has any impact on price) I don't believe the vertical or traverse sold very well. You could make an argument, they are trying to make up the losses for those.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


If they took as an example the Fenix 3, why they haven't implemented the infrared HR sensor? (this question is aimed to Suunto) 
I was looking forward to see this technology on the watch that came after the Ambit3.
I know that it isn't as precise as the HR belt, but for me is a pain in the ass to wear the belt.
Furthermore, I would love to track down my heart rate 24/7 (I guess is a professional defect), and using a belt all day long it isn't an option.
I hope that they will give us a surprise saying us: "hey guys, guess what, it also has the infrared HR sensor on the HR model!!" Just dreaming now...


----------



## antjoh

There's alot of fun speculations going on here!
We clearly need more information from the guy in that italian design company refered to in the first post of the Ambit4 thread.


----------



## gimegime

MG Designs said:


> If they took as an example the Fenix 3, why they haven't implemented the infrared HR sensor? (this question is aimed to Suunto)
> I was looking forward to see this technology on the watch that came after the Ambit3.
> I know that it isn't as precise as the HR belt, but for me is a pain in the ass to wear the belt.
> Furthermore, I would love to track down my heart rate 24/7 (I guess is a professional defect), and using a belt all day long it isn't an option.
> I hope that they will give us a surprise saying us: "hey guys, guess what, it also has the infrared HR sensor on the HR model!!" Just dreaming now...


Integrated Optical HR does not work. Anyone who has attempted to use it to train with knows this. It's not just "imprecise" it's unusable. I train via HRZ and Garmin watches with the integrated HR are so inaccurate you can't do it. It's completely useless for cycling and to run with it accurately you need it so tight on your wrist it cuts off circulation. No exaggeration. Then think about how you are going to actually see the watch face in cold climates yet have it on your wrist.

The people who buy these watches rarely use heart rate. It's a nice feature to them to have because it makes the watch look like a serious training device, but it's not, it's an expensive joke.

Yet Garmin clearly has found the market for them as a fashion device. The serious looking watch for the occasional user. If you think I am wrong then I would love to see just 1 pro athlete who is using a Garmin with integrated optical HR.

Suunto do not go down this path. Continue to make serious devices for serious athletes please.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## morey000

gimegime said:


> Integrated Optical HR does not work. ...


Garmin Forerunner 735XT In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker

looks like it works pretty well. I think the TomToms are even better, because they use the Mio technology. 
it's not perfect, but for me, chest straps are way worse. static interference - dry climate.

Plus, having a built-in optical doesn't preclude one from using a chest strap, for those cold/jacket days.


----------



## gimegime

morey000 said:


> Garmin Forerunner 735XT In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker
> 
> looks like it works pretty well. I think the TomToms are even better, because they use the Mio technology.
> it's not perfect, but for me, chest straps are way worse. static interference - dry climate.
> 
> Plus, having a built-in optical doesn't preclude one from using a chest strap, for those cold/jacket days.


I say it again, have you actually used it to train with?

Even DCR admits it's far from perfect. I challenge you to name one serious athlete who uses this. And I am sure there is one out there somewhere earning a nice contract.....but seriously it is a Mickey Mouse feature.

I like Garmins, infact the 920xt is the best watch on the market today in my opinion. But integrated optical HR is nothing more than a sales gimmick.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

And don't get me wrong, clearly there is a market for these watches as people are buying them. But for me inaccurate data is useless data. That's not the case for everyone. For some people roughly close is ok.

But in my opinion Suunto should be focusing on quality products. The best in GPS accuracy, the best battery life, the best build quality. Plus close ties to third party products like Stryd. That should be their point of difference.

Leave Garmin to the mass produced features that appeal to the majority, the occasional athlete, that isn't bothered by precision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## akusobick




----------



## neldiogo

morey000 said:


> Garmin Forerunner 735XT In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker
> 
> looks like it works pretty well. I think the TomToms are even better, because they use the Mio technology.
> it's not perfect, but for me, chest straps are way worse. static interference - dry climate.
> 
> Plus, having a built-in optical doesn't preclude one from using a chest strap, for those cold/jacket days.


I have a friend with a Tom Tom and I keep wathching him being harsh on the Strava comments, with the integrated HR measures, in his run's so I think we might have some serious problems with integrated HR for serious use today.


----------



## anto1980

Small resolution...



akusobick said:


> View attachment 8457042


----------



## Miszka

Optical HR is great when it's up on the meatier part of the arm. My Scosche R+ has a history of constantly beating the chest strap, especially in winter. But the wrist is just the worst place to prevent the light infusion. Even when the OHR seems accurate it's because of the complex algorithm connected to accelometer, gps pace etc., not the live measurement.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

anto1980 said:


> Small resolution...


Note that Anto won't be happy until he gets macro images where individual pixels can be counted 

By the way: From what I've been hearing, serious reviews will have to wait until mid-August, at least. Still some ways to go...


----------



## wydim

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Note that Anto won't be happy until he gets macro images where individual pixels can be counted
> 
> By the way: From what I've been hearing, serious reviews will have to wait until mid-August, at least. Still some ways to go...


what was the point of that comment ?


----------



## morey000

gimegime said:


> ...I challenge you to name one serious athlete who uses this.


Ray Maker?


----------



## HIKESOLO

morey000 said:


> Ray Maker?


Along with 3 other watches, 2 activity trackers, and 4 chest straps, haha.


----------



## dcrainmaker

HIKESOLO said:


> Along with 3 other watches, 2 activity trackers, and 4 chest straps, haha.


I'm happy to use the Scosche as an optical HR sensor. It's just as accurate as a chest strap for me (and the vast majority of others who use it). That's true of cycling and running. In fact, I'd easily argue it's more accurate than a chest strap in those activities, especially in drier/cooler weather.

I wouldn't use the Garmin optical HR sensor for cycling (or current gen TomTom, though older TomTom units using Mio's sensor are fine). I would use the latest Garmin optical HR sensors for running for most workouts.

Anytime I see someone claim that all optical HR sensors suck, then I know right off the bat they don't know anything about optical HR sensors. It's like saying all cars suck, or all British food sucks. There are many optical HR sensors on the market, and some do suck. But some are really really good. Exact models and brands matter.

In fact, some are actually better than HR straps. Folks tend to forget how many people have issues with HR straps in cooler weather (fall primarily). Spikes, drops, etc...


----------



## loganb

Ray,

You had previously said that the optical HR sensors don't provide good HRV data. Do you now feel differently? If I'm used to using the movecount's PTE and EPOC values is there an optical HRV that in your mind is providing the actual data versus some sort of extrapolation?

- logan



dcrainmaker said:


> I'm happy to use the Scosche as an optical HR sensor. It's just as accurate as a chest strap for me (and the vast majority of others who use it). That's true of cycling and running. In fact, I'd easily argue it's more accurate than a chest strap in those activities, especially in drier/cooler weather.
> 
> I wouldn't use the Garmin optical HR sensor for cycling (or current gen TomTom, though older TomTom units using Mio's sensor are fine). I would use the latest Garmin optical HR sensors for running for most workouts.
> 
> Anytime I see someone claim that all optical HR sensors suck, then I know right off the bat they don't know anything about optical HR sensors. It's like saying all cars suck, or all British food sucks. There are many optical HR sensors on the market, and some do suck. But some are really really good. Exact models and brands matter.
> 
> In fact, some are actually better than HR straps. Folks tend to forget how many people have issues with HR straps in cooler weather (fall primarily). Spikes, drops, etc...


----------



## gimegime

morey000 said:


> Ray Maker?


Who as you see doesn't use it.

As I have repeatedly posted, Integrated Optical HR, is not a serious device for measuring HR.

The 735xt is not a patch on the 920xt at the same price point

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FlashLighter

Ok, so just a little tease, i had the opportunity to put it on my wrist, and watch on the hand feels really premium, sits better and looks nicer than Kailash, so that model just lost market, IMO.


----------



## Hecke

pics or didn't happen!


----------



## FlashLighter

Everything just fell in the water for me, regarding the Spartan questions that Suunto answered found here.
34. Any weather data
No
This means this watch doesn't have barometric graph and temperature, etc. so this watch is more for athletes then outdoors man.


----------



## dcrainmaker

gimegime said:


> Who as you see doesn't use it.
> 
> As I have repeatedly posted, Integrated Optical HR, is not a serious device for measuring HR.
> 
> The 735xt is not a patch on the 920xt at the same price point
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why do you say I don't use it? I just explained that I largely use the Scosche Optical HR sensor.

Your assertion that all optical HR sensors are bad is incorrect. I don't use Garmin's ELEVATE optical HR sensor for cycling, however, if they had put in the Mio or Scosche sensors into the unit (as they did with the FR235), I'd have no issues using it for cycling.


----------



## batareikin

FlashLighter said:


> Ok, so just a little tease, i had the opportunity to put it on my wrist, and watch on the hand feels really premium, sits better and looks nicer than Kailash, so that model just lost market, IMO.


Kailash targets a very narrow market. It looks great and for its limited number of functions it offers very good battery life. Also I really appreciate its comfortable dimensions and weight. In this respect , as a "every day carry" gps watch it wins against F3 with all its colors, bells and whistles.

Of course, Spartan looks very nice if not premium. And if its EDC comfortableness index is similar to Kailash, then Kailash will lose its market.


----------



## HIKESOLO

dcrainmaker said:


> I'm happy to use the Scosche as an optical HR sensor. It's just as accurate as a chest strap for me (and the vast majority of others who use it). That's true of cycling and running. In fact, I'd easily argue it's more accurate than a chest strap in those activities, especially in drier/cooler weather.
> 
> I wouldn't use the Garmin optical HR sensor for cycling (or current gen TomTom, though older TomTom units using Mio's sensor are fine). I would use the latest Garmin optical HR sensors for running for most workouts.
> 
> Anytime I see someone claim that all optical HR sensors suck, then I know right off the bat they don't know anything about optical HR sensors. It's like saying all cars suck, or all British food sucks. There are many optical HR sensors on the market, and some do suck. But some are really really good. Exact models and brands matter.
> 
> In fact, some are actually better than HR straps. Folks tend to forget how many people have issues with HR straps in cooler weather (fall primarily). Spikes, drops, etc...


I know you quoted me - but I'm not the one who says optical sucks. I use the Scosche Rhythm + and love it. I'll never use a chest strap again. I was just poking fun that since you are normally testing units you'd probably have on a few watches/straps on at the same time.


----------



## HIKESOLO

duplicate post


----------



## wydim

FlashLighter said:


> Everything just fell in the water for me, regarding the Spartan questions that Suunto answered found here.
> 34. Any weather data
> No
> This means this watch doesn't have barometric graph and temperature, etc. so this watch is more for athletes then outdoors man.


you're statement is hard to take seriously... given this (but let's wait for more info on July 6th) :


----------



## FlashLighter

Yes, but you have to read that in correct way.

Vertical has barometric altitude, but no barometric weather functions like Ambit, or dare I say, Fenix3, which has weather forecast with color graphical icons (sun/cloud etc.)
I think this watch really needs to have a baro graph with weather trend. I don't need colored sun forecast, but previous 24-27hrs graph would be a must.


----------



## morey000

dcrainmaker said:


> Why do you say I don't use it? ...


Ray- Sorry for bringing you into responding to a silly post. my fault. but when he said 'name one athlete...', since I had just read your 735xt review... and you had posted comparative graphs of HR monitor performance... you were the obvious choice.

I don't wanna' take any of your time away from writing more reviews.  Love'm.

-and yeah, I battled years of static interference with various chest straps in my dry climate. Even with Spectra360, Static Guard, it was a perpetual mess. Bought the Mio Link right after I read your review in January of '14, and have never looked back. Not perfect, but Soooo much better for me. Just noticed that after 2-1/2 years of daily use, my MioLink strap is cracking near the buckle... they're sending me a new one (for $15). So, that's how long a MioLink strap lasts. Thought you might wanna' know.

Scosche and Mio need to update their products with a longer battery life, for IM and Ultras.


----------



## wydim

FlashLighter said:


> Yes, but you have to read that in correct way.
> 
> Vertical has barometric altitude, but no barometric weather functions like Ambit, or dare I say, Fenix3, which has weather forecast with color graphical icons (sun/cloud etc.)
> I think this watch really needs to have a baro graph with weather trend. I don't need colored sun forecast, but previous 24-27hrs graph would be a must.


OK, I see what you meant...
yeah, baro graph for past hours would be nice. Anything else (sun and clouds icons) is just a gimmick.


----------



## suunto123

"No barograph/weather data" is great - it saves me 650-700€ ;-)


----------



## Ivo P

suunto123 said:


> "No barograph/weather data" is great - it saves me 650-700€ ;-)


Fully agree, I am a hard core fan, do not think about Garvin at all but getting nervous and negative when Suunto kind of exclude basic staff that at least per my understanding are easy to have and were available in much more basic models.

Come on Suunto, you can make a flagship, the Spartan should not have limitations. Else - I might change my mind and wait another year...


----------



## MoLu

Isn't the weather forecast on the Fenix 3 dependent on a connected smartphone, rather than being an actual function of the watch? Still leaves the 24h logbook for the baro, but do we really already have any evidence that the Spartan doesn't have that as well?


----------



## suunto123

Look at the link at post #363, question nr34, answered by Suunto:
"Any weather data? No!"


----------



## FlashLighter

suunto123 said:


> Look at the link at post #363, question nr34, answered by Suunto:
> "Any weather data? No!"


There is always the question, if those answers are really from Suunto, at all.

But if Core can have bloody weather trend, I see no reason one Spartan couldn't have it. I can go with almost everything, but this is unnecessary cutting corners which will seriously decimate number of potential buyers.


----------



## wydim

suunto123 said:


> Look at the link at post #363, question nr34, answered by Suunto:
> "Any weather data? No!"


in the Q&A, I think (hope) they meant, weather data, as in full weather app (provided by a paired smartphone).


----------



## Tabinho

wydim said:


> in the Q&A, I think (hope) they meant, weather data, as in full weather app (provided by a paired smartphone).


Don't know.

That and this answer tells me that the ambit will be top tier for a while. Starting to think this was a messy launch - they needed to show something... Hope I'm wrong.

41. Still compatible with firstbeat?

Spartan Ultra does not have Firstbeat features in the beginning but they are in the roadmap to be included later.


----------



## Damienr8

MoLu said:


> Isn't the weather forecast on the Fenix 3 dependent on a connected smartphone, rather than being an actual function of the watch? Still leaves the 24h logbook for the baro, but do we really already have any evidence that the Spartan doesn't have that as well?


Does anyone know if this is the case?


----------



## chrishy

Damienr8 said:


> Does anyone know if this is the case?


Yes, Garmin watches (Fenix 3, ForeRunner models, etc) rely on Garmin Connect on your phone to deliver the weather forecast.


----------



## iamsparta

dcrainmaker said:


> I would use the latest Garmin optical HR sensors for running for most workouts.


hey garminmoneymaker, welcome.

Do you have any other Garmin products you could recommend to us Suunto users on your awesome Garmin watch recommendation site dcgarminmoneymaker.com and your clever partner clevermoneymaking.com?

I look forward to your early review of the Spartan. I heard you ignored the Suunto NDA last time with the Ambit just so you got a scoop and messed up Suunto's marketing? Same this time perhaps? Well, if they send you one that is.

Just like you'll say the 735 is better than the ambit in every respect so you will say the fenix 4 is better than the spartan in every way. I get it.

There's not so much money in Suunto products for you, stick to the bug ridden Garmin products.


----------



## arnea

gimegime said:


> And , no you don't need wifi access to change speed/cadence sensor on an Ambit 3. Yes you need a smartphone.


You need Internet connection to change sports modes. Only those settings that you can also change directly from watch can changed in smartphone without internet connection.

What you say is true, but it is only half of the story. I personally don't care if I use mobile data or Wifi for internet connectivity, but the dependency from internet connection and movescount.com availability is a big deal.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

arnea said:


> You need Internet connection to change sports modes. Only those settings that you can also change directly from watch can changed in smartphone without internet connection.
> 
> What you say is true, but it is only half of the story. I personally don't care if I use mobile data or Wifi for internet connectivity, but the dependency from internet connection and movescount.com availability is a big deal.


I must say, I can never decide about that. Sometimes, I do dislike the way Suunto implemented that (when/if I would like to see a data field I forgot to set up). Usually, it's all good and I'd say that, if you didn't set up the modes the way you wanted to have them, you've probably not planned that entire outing quite as well as you should have. Same with the notion of maps on the watch. When/if a need for a map arises, it probably takes more than a map that a watch display could provide (if not more than Google Maps shows, even).

Of course, we'll yet have to see how Suunto does these things on the Spartan Ultra... including to what extent product lines are now being continued / changed.


----------



## AirVetra

It's very unconvinient the need of smartphone and internet connection during the training to change anything in the settings:

1) I travel much abroad and really happy with no internet on my phone - wi-fi in the hotel is enough for me!
2) Sometimes hav eno smarphone at all at my training sessions
3) I've got a lot of sensors including Styde and want to change fields ocasionaly as i want!!!

BTW: I'm an "advanced" user of Garmin 235 with OHR and unfortunately it sucks - espessialy with support and firmware development. (and bought after review of Ray with all disclamers and forum messages with problems, so no cross with Ray.)

But I'd like the IHR will be in Spartan or Ambit4 as I need rest and 24/7 heartrate as a indicator of recovery and stress! Also I like 24/7 activity tracker and sleep quality tracker.


----------



## dcrainmaker

iamsparta said:


> hey garminmoneymaker, welcome.
> 
> Do you have any other Garmin products you could recommend to us Suunto users on your awesome Garmin watch recommendation site dcgarminmoneymaker.com and your clever partner clevermoneymaking.com?
> 
> I look forward to your early review of the Spartan. I heard you ignored the Suunto NDA last time with the Ambit just so you got a scoop and messed up Suunto's marketing? Same this time perhaps? Well, if they send you one that is.
> 
> Just like you'll say the 735 is better than the ambit in every respect so you will say the fenix 4 is better than the spartan in every way. I get it.
> 
> There's not so much money in Suunto products for you, stick to the bug ridden Garmin products.


RE: Suunto products - If Suunto ends up making a good product, I'll be happy to recommend that (as I have numerous times in the past)

RE: NDA - You heard wrong. Suunto's inability to communicate internally is not my problem. The desire of one of their marketing managers two years ago to try and blame me to retailers for posting about their product upon the agreed upon date in "too much detail" is also not my problem. That wasn't the agreement we had, for which they've since apologized to me for (multiple times). I don't ignore NDA's or embargo's, which is why you never see me comment on rumors. Fwiw, I do have an NDA in place with Suunto. I do not have one in place with Garmin. Note: In case you really want to go back and look, you'll see my post date and Suunto's announcement dates are identical. That's the way an Embargo/NDA works. There's no such thing as "doing it half-way", it's not the way I work, and every company in the industry knows that (including everyone except apparently one person at the time at Suunto. I don't know if they are still employed there).

RE: 735XT vs Ambit better in every way: Strange, I don't believe I've said that. In fact, I talk about the challenges of the altimeter data in the FR735XT quite a bit. But you're welcome to keep on making up stuff.

RE: Money: There's just as much money in Suunto as Garmin products, since it doesn't matter which product one buys - I get the same amount % either way from Amazon/etc... Actually, in theory I'd get more from Suunto since it's more expensive (as it's purely % based).

RE: Product recommendations: Note that Suunto puts out approximately 1-3 products every year (excluding color variations). Garmin put out 21 fitness related products in 2015, and appears on track to break that for 2016. As a matter of simple numbers, it's more likely that I'd have categories to recommend Garmin products over Suunto products. For example, Suunto doesn't make a bike computer.


----------



## arnea

Gerald, the question is *why* did Suunto implement it this way. I have two possible answers, both are bad and sad. 

1) they just cannot implement anything better. The software that they put out is inferior and the situation is not improving. E.g. Just today morning I was debugging why my laptop is waking up from sleep every other minute and found out that the latest Moveslink2 sets a wakeup timer on Windows for this. Or the Android saga.

2) they have devised some business model that requires to push users to online services. Might be something to do with the "value" of the company that increases when the "community" increases.


----------



## AirVetra

arnea said:


> 2) they have devised some business model that requires to push users to online services. Might be something to do with the "value" of the company that increases when the "community" increases.


I'm not opposite to online, but Options should be managed via watches themselves!


----------



## Pirk

Hi iamsparta! I think you should read this: The Psychology of a Fanboy: Why You Keep Buying the Same Stuff

I also would like Suunto to succeed, but if they don't it is still just a training watch. Not anything serious like football  I do not think Garmin is Suuntos biggest competitor in the future. Apple and Samsung and their smart watches is a bigger threat IMO.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

arnea said:


> Gerald, the question is *why* did Suunto implement it this way. I have two possible answers, both are bad and sad.
> 
> 1) they just cannot implement anything better. The software that they put out is inferior and the situation is not improving. E.g. Just today morning I was debugging why my laptop is waking up from sleep every other minute and found out that the latest Moveslink2 sets a wakeup timer on Windows for this. Or the Android saga.
> 
> 2) they have devised some business model that requires to push users to online services. Might be something to do with the "value" of the company that increases when the "community" increases.


Or, because it makes sense to not bother changing stuff while you're out and about and should be focused on something other than your watch... I'd really like to say. I rather think. Except I remember the material from Amer Sports which sees digital services / connected devices as a major area of focus...


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Pirk said:


> Hi iamsparta! I think you should read this: The Psychology of a Fanboy: Why You Keep Buying the Same Stuff


Would profit from an article about network effects in social media, though, e.g. Why the people who already got a lot of attention keep getting even more attention, justified or not entirely. (However, note that I'm miffed because I keep running into the issue where local/national marketing teams are supposed to talk to me because of my location, but they don't want to talk to me because I write and do videos in English, meaning I'm not speaking to their local/national audience. Nor am I "big" enough to warrant more/HQ attention. Talk of "flat" world and global/ized markets...)

I feel like taking bets re. Suunto's success. Unfortunately, they don't release sales numbers. (By the way, does Garmin? Unit sales per month?)


----------



## arnea

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Or, because it makes sense to not bother changing stuff while you're out and about and should be focused on something other than your watch... I'd really like to say. I rather think. Except I remember the material from Amer Sports which sees digital services / connected devices as a major area of focus...


I was talking about changing the sports modes from the smartphone without Internet connection. I think this capability makes a lot of sense and is not hard to implement.


----------



## dcrainmaker

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I feel like taking bets re. Suunto's success. Unfortunately, they don't release sales numbers. (By the way, does Garmin? Unit sales per month?)


Not typically. They've (Garmin) released little tidbits here and there. For example at the ANT+ Symposium last year they released numbers on units shipped in certain categories. And oddly two Friday's ago they sent out a press release with some numbers in it, but they aren't useful in determining monthly/quarterly/annual shipments.

But they don't do anything like Fitbit does in terms of promising annual shipment numbers in their filings (though Fitbit will often brag more frequently). I suspect we could see Garmin shift to doing something similar, since their unit numbers are more 'braggable' now than they've been in the past (as indicated by their recent PR release).

The closest you'll get on Garmin units today is some of the financial analyst type reports from market research companies like IDC. But even those often have errors in them that are easy to spot, but they're still better than nothing. For context, in Q1 2016 they say that Garmin shipped 900,000 "wearables' (Fitbit shipped 4.8 million). Suunto doesn't make the list, nor does Polar (which has far greater numbers than Suunto). Doesn't take away from the quality of products that Suunto/Polar produce, but merely talks to what the vast majority of consumers are buying when it comes to wearables.

Details: Worldwide Wearables Market Increases 67.2% Amid Seasonal Retrenchment, According to IDC - prUS41284516


----------



## starks

Photos: A. D'Alessandro


----------



## wydim

So this black ring (inside the bezel) is not part of the display ? it looks huge in these pics! why haven't I noticed that on the marketing material ? the glass is huge but the display not so much


----------



## zvojan

ahh...such a small numbers on such a big screen


----------



## matej123

why such a small screen? Suunto why did you put this black ring inside screen, it is so ugly, and screen so small in this beautiful watch. I dont understand this!


----------



## Ivo P

I am a fan, I am a fan... But this looks like a Frisbee 

My heart sunk...

Hey at least there should be enough space for that espresso machine, you never know, Suunto, just don't sell us this proprietary Nestle capsules, they suck 

If I want to be positive, probably that is an early development model but I doubt it...

Sent from my SGP771 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tabinho

Inside bezel will disappear on ultra 2... 

(Damn, 2 more years waiting...)


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

You guys. Look back on your wrists, whether there's an Ambit (1 / 2 / 3) or a Kailash, there's always that bezel. (Oh sure, I'd also like a full-screen display hologram VR of my route, but that might still be a little while.)
Sounds totally apologetic, I know, but... Now there are images of the display and it looks nicely readable, the font size and the bezel are all that people seem to see.


----------



## silentvoyager

Actually the display is relatively larger than on Ambit3 (meaning the bezel is relatively narrower). On Spartan Ultra the display diameter is 70% of the watch diameter and on Ambit3 - less than 60%.


----------



## raducanmihai

Finally, there are 4 data / screen. Along with vibration alarm, this one of the most important things to me. I hate to keep pushing buttons on my A3 Peak to see the timer, HR, pace and distance. I know there is that scrollable bottom row, but I don't use it. I'm somehow always looking at the wrong moment.


----------



## wydim

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> You guys. Look back on your wrists, whether there's an Ambit (1 / 2 / 3) or a Kailash, there's always that bezel. (Oh sure, I'd also like a full-screen display hologram VR of my route, but that might still be a little while.)
> Sounds totally apologetic, I know, but... Now there are images of the display and it looks nicely readable, the font size and the bezel are all that people seem to see.


I know ! when I came back home after posting my previous remark. I went straight to my ambit2 and there it is, the black ring inside bezel. What's different is that in the Ambits, it's used to write "back/lap", "start/stop", "light/lock", "next". So we kind of justify it's presence.


----------



## gousias

Possibly a desirable watch for me (still waiting for the entire specification announcement) though I am curious, whether it could be vulnerable to signs and scratches, especially regarding the titanium case as much as the glass. I own a core alum black already and feel disappointed for the easiness of getting scratched and color taken off even when wearing with jackets!


----------



## snowleopardw




----------



## FlashLighter

About the screen visibility, i played a little bit on sun wearing sunglasses. 

So if you look directly to watch face, it is little too dim, but if you rotate your wrist for 60 deg away from you, so you get almost parallel line of sight with face, contract is crisp and alive. Demo model didn't have contrast setting nor B/W function. It did lock screen after short time of not using, similar to Tissot T-Touch line. After button press, you can move your finger around once again.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Re. scratching: I've had a Kailash for a few months now; I keep hitting it against the door or wall with the upper part of the bezel, and you'd be hard pressed to see where there is some/any scratching from that. IIRC, my review includes a close-up of the bezel, and you really have to know how to look to see anything imperfect.

Spartan Ultra screen looks pretty amazing. I just wish that Suunto were better at communicating what they've got...


----------



## Quotron

snowleopardw said:


> View attachment 8522234


So it looks like it will be using a new type of cable to attach to the computer as well. Interesting to see some pics with the screen (actually) on. I will like to see how it looks in direct sunlight (i.e. how much washout) and how the touch screen works with wet hands, or under other extreme use conditions. I can imagine a lot of functions being pressed - perhaps moves being paused or stopped - by accident when putting on/taking off a pack, going through thick brush, etc... Of course, the issue of greatest import is the accuracy, and that will have to wait for some wear reviews. Despite my extreme skepticism, it _is_ a handsome watch, I just hope that its performance can match its looks...


----------



## Teriemer

Scroll down a bit on this FB site. There's a video showing some more screens. The guy is telling that Spartan can have up to 7 data fields on one screen, depending on type of sport.

https://www.facebook.com/PulsUre.dk/

Edit: Spartan seems to me a bit thick. Does anyone have a picture taken from the side (on a wrist)?


----------



## newtonfb

Teriemer said:


> Scroll down a bit on this FB site. There's a video showing some more screens. The guy is telling that Spartan can have up to 7 data fields on one screen, depending on type of sport.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/PulsUre.dk/
> 
> Edit: Spartan seems to me a bit thick. Does anyone have a picture taken from the side (on a wrist)?


In that video comments section, he states that the GPS Battery time is 25hrs - 200hrs, just like the peak. Also says its 4 weeks in watch mode. Thats good news.


----------



## wydim

I have a questions for anyone that has experience with a white silicone strap from the previous Ambit units. I find it really nice in pictures but how is real life with a white strap ? does it get dirty ? dusty ? more importantly, when you clean it, does it look like new or is there permanent stains that cannot be wiped clean?


----------



## gousias

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Re. scratching: I've had a Kailash for a few months now; I keep hitting it against the door or wall with the upper part of the bezel, and you'd be hard pressed to see where there is some/any scratching from that. IIRC, my review includes a close-up of the bezel, and you really have to know how to look to see anything imperfect.
> 
> Spartan Ultra screen looks pretty amazing. I just wish that Suunto were better at communicating what they've got...


Is it the black one? Really after all the hitting no scratches and signs at all?
Does anyone tested or read anything about the Spartan in black titanium? Sorry if I repeat this question but as I mentioned before I am a bit disappointed by the Alu deep black that I have and it's vulnerability to hits!


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

gousias said:


> Is it the black one? Really after all the hitting no scratches and signs at all?
> Does anyone tested or read anything about the Spartan in black titanium? Sorry if I repeat this question but as I mentioned before I am a bit disappointed by the Alu deep black that I have and it's vulnerability to hits!


It's the copper one. Check it out here... Knowing anything about the Spartan would be difficult at this point, since we're still far from the release


----------



## snowleopardw




----------



## Miszka

Wow, thanks for this! It looks like the Spartan is thicker than the Ambit2 (17.5 mm). Strange decision if they wanted to fight for the coveted 24/7 smartwatch/sportwatch market.


----------



## bruceames

At least it means that it's more likely that battery life and even perhaps GPS performance will be up to A3P standards. I trust big over small when doing a move.


----------



## gousias

Miszka said:


> Wow, thanks for this! It looks like the Spartan is thicker than the Ambit2 (17.5 mm). Strange decision if they wanted to fight for the coveted 24/7 smartwatch/sportwatch market.


Indeed! On thinner hands it would possibly look somewhat strange?


----------



## Miszka

gousias said:


> Indeed! On thinner hands it would possibly look somewhat strange?


For sports it's ok, and you can easily forget about it, but for everyday use? It looks like a prison ankle bracelet. I guess the only way with this cross-market devices is to get thinner and to sacrifice battery life. You have to be able to stick under a cufflink... Maybe the Spartan Racer...?


----------



## zvojan

spartan: thickness: 16 mm, diameter 51,5mm
ambit3: thickness: 17mm, diameter 50mm


----------



## Miszka

zvojan said:


> spartan: thickness: 16 mm, diameter 51,5mm
> ambit3: thickness: 17mm, diameter 50mm


Thanks! So it must have been optical illusion. The size is exactly Fenix3|>


----------



## bruceames

This is the replacement for the A3P. I'm sure they will also have equivalent "Sport" watches coming out for those who prefer a smaller form factor.


----------



## paulteini

So this must use inductive charging, right?


----------



## morey000

zvojan said:


> spartan: thickness: 16 mm, diameter 51,5 mm
> ambit3: thickness: 17mm, diameter 50mm


the thickness is the info I've been waiting for. 
the A3S is spec'ed at 15.5mm
The Vertical 15.0 mm
A3P 18mm!

But I gotta' tell ya'. *the photo you provided, sure does make the Spartan Ultra look thicker.*

as noted above: the Fenix 3 is 51.0 x 16.0 mm

they're all fairly huge, but given the state of the art and our battery life expectations- 16mm is very reasonable.
And- it's 16mm without an antenna bump.

The Screen looks beautiful and bright. is it always like that? or only when you touch it/move it/turn it on?
Now- can you go out and do some trail runs and start assessing the GPS accuracy performance for us  preferably wearing 3 watches.


----------



## Teriemer

snowleopardw said:


> View attachment 8583962


Can you link to your run activity?

In advance, thanks a lot


----------



## FlashLighter

Sadly, Moveslink still doesn't recognize Spartan. Maybe if you have some prototype version...


----------



## fr_cowboy

is there any pictures of classical mountaineering data: barometer trends, compass, altimeters, thermometers and stuffs...


----------



## wydim

there's a video in wich someone uses and navigates through the different Spartan watch faces. It's on facebook group : SUUNTO talks: Run4IQ (scroll down to june 24th)

I think it's in german so I don't understand nothing but I noticed some serious lagging issues during the screen swaps. check out for yourself and tell me if I'm crazy...


----------



## HIKESOLO

wydim said:


> there's a video in wich someone uses and navigates through the different Spartan watch faces. It's on facebook group : SUUNTO talks: Run4IQ (scroll down to june 24th)
> 
> I think it's in german so I don't understand nothing but I noticed some serious lagging issues during the screen swaps. check out for yourself and tell me if I'm crazy...


I saw a link on Facebook where the guy was swiping through and said it was the best touchscreen they'd ever seen on a device like this. I imagine they all have some sort of lag, but apparently, at least to this user it was awesome.


----------



## arnea

paulteini said:


> So this must use inductive charging, right?


Perhaps not. There are four holes on the back of the watch - just in different position than in previous models.


----------



## margusl

FlashLighter said:


> Sadly, Moveslink still doesn't recognize Spartan. Maybe if you have some prototype version...


I wouldn't bet on Moveslink at all - that leaked(?) quick start guide instructed to download and install SuuntoLink. That piece providing SW updates and GPS almanach for Kailash is also called SuuntoLink - http://www.suunto.com/Support/Software-updates-for-Suunto-products/Suunto-Kailash-software-updates/ . Linked version there is quite old, from October 2015, so probably does not have any support for Spartan either. BUT there are few fresh installers hosted on that same Cloudfront site, dated 2016-06-23 b-) 
Not quite sure if they are just way too careless handling un-released SW or there's something else ...



arnea said:


> Perhaps not. There are four holes on the back of the watch - just in different position than in previous models.


Same quick guide also hints a cable with magnet lock.


----------



## FlashLighter

Great find, in that same app margusl dug up, i got this:








It seems Suunto will play with more and more devices which have color screen, not just the 2 leaked versions of Spartan.


----------



## HIKESOLO

FlashLighter said:


> It seems Suunto will play with more and more devices which have color screen, not just the 2 leaked versions of Spartan.


They definitely are. As I mentioned in a previous post, I was told there is the Spartan Trainer and the Spartan Racer (Essentially Sport & Run versions of A3). Wouldn't surprise me if we eventually saw Traverse 2.0 with color screen as well.


----------



## rdm01

HIKESOLO said:


> They definitely are. As I mentioned in a previous post, I was told there is the Spartan Trainer and the Spartan Racer (Essentially Sport & Run versions of A3). Wouldn't surprise me if we eventually saw Traverse 2.0 with color screen as well.


I wish they launch the Ultra and Racer at the same date. I'm not decided which want I'll buy yet...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## HIKESOLO

rdm01 said:


> I wish they launch the Ultra and Racer at the same date. I'm not decided which want I'll buy yet...
> 
> deporteporvida.com


They technically still could. The next big announcement/more info is supposed to come in July. So once they open up the details on the Ultra they may end up revealing the rest of the new Spartan lineup as well. I think they announced the Ultra early on so that people on the fence of upgrading will hold out for the new Suunto (and because it is the most popular/multisport version).


----------



## FlashLighter

HIKESOLO said:


> They technically still could. The next big announcement/more info is supposed to come in July. So once they open up the details on the Ultra they may end up revealing the rest of the new Spartan lineup as well. I think they announced the Ultra early on so that people on the fence of upgrading will hold out for the new Suunto (and because it is the most popular/multisport version).


I got the info that Racer will be available around October or November, not sooner, so that means first we buy Ultra, and then hope they don't create a better watch in next few months.


----------



## Quotron

snowleopardw said:


> View attachment 8583946





Teriemer said:


> Can you link to your run activity?
> 
> In advance, thanks a lot


That pic is from a Russian based Salomon/Suunto athlete. Instagram here and Movescount here. The move recorded with the Spartan is not on the Movescount page, perhaps all testers moves get sent back to Suunto.

In any case, I found some more pictures


























Sauce


----------



## rdm01

Quotron said:


> That pic is from a Russian based Salomon/Suunto athlete. Instagram here and Movescount here. The move recorded with the Spartan is not on the Movescount page, perhaps all testers moves get sent back to Suunto.
> 
> In any case, I found some more pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sauce


There's a {ERR.. label at the first pic. I hope the firmware 1.0 will be as stable as usually Suunto launched with their devices...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Teriemer

Is it just me, or do anyone else think it's quite a chunky watch. Definitely too chunky for my tiny wrists :-(


----------



## gousias

+1
I am afraid it seems too chunky as you mentioned!


----------



## iapyx

Teriemer said:


> Is it just me, or do anyone else think it's quite a chunky watch. Definitely too chunky for my tiny wrists :-(


not only that. The longer I look at it, the less I like its looks. It's quite ugly. The strap as well. As well as how the straps is connected to the watch itself. The Ambit has way better looks. Disappointing.


----------



## Miszka

Quotron said:


> That pic is from a Russian based Salomon/Suunto athlete. Instagram here and Movescount here. The move recorded with the Spartan is not on the Movescount page, perhaps all testers moves get sent back to Suunto.


Thanks! Soooo many Spartans, is it that ugly?

__
http://instagr.am/p/BHRsL6gjyXS/


----------



## iapyx

Miszka said:


> Thanks! Soooo many Spartans, is it that ugly?
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BHRsL6gjyXS/


Well, ugly. The ambit is way more elegant imho.
Understand me well, I do like the specs and so, but the design..... 
At this moment I think I will wait until Suunto comes with more models, or wait for a Spartan 2.0
I do own an Ambit 2 which I really like.

One thing I would like to see more photos of is the digital/analogue clock on the digital display.


----------



## Miszka

Yeah, well, maybe its clean lines and chunky size makes it look like a surface diving watch.


----------



## MoLu

DC Rainmaker stated in one of his posts that "Suunto doesn’t plan to release further information until July 6th, 2016", which would be tomorrow. While I know that he has much better intel than almost all of us, I am surprised that I didn't see this date anywhere else, only references to "in July".
Does anybody know more? Is Suunto finally handing us something tomorrow and end their NDAs concerning the SSU?


----------



## wydim

in the official Suunto press release, if I remember correctly, the date was July 7th


----------



## Hecke

wydim said:


> in the official Suunto press release, if I remember correctly, the date was July 7th


Argh, another day to wait! 
Goddamn, I need a new watch. Last weekend I ran with a charger and cable in my sleeve for a total of four hours just to keep my Ambit2S alive.


----------



## rdm01

Hecke said:


> Argh, another day to wait!
> Goddamn, I need a new watch. Last weekend I ran with a charger and cable in my sleeve for a total of four hours just to keep my Ambit2S alive.


It's here now!!! Suunto Spartan Ultra

Also they presented the Racer. The Racer it's only 13.8 mm!!!


----------



## MoLu

Well, not exactly the best battery life ever seen (18h for max data, only 15d in watch mode), but I guess that's the price one has to pay for a high-res touch screen. But then also only one alarm per day (come on, even the T6 had three!), no altitude graph etc...guess it's better to wait for some reviews before even considering.


----------



## FlashLighter

Except racer is not racer, but Sport: Suunto Spartan Sport Black - Multisport GPS watch


----------



## MoLu

Interesting though: "Wrist heart rate measurement will be introduced to Suunto Spartan Sport later this year."


----------



## anto1980

Where did you read this?


MoLu said:


> Interesting though: "Wrist heart rate measurement will be introduced to Suunto Spartan Sport later this year."


----------



## rdm01

One really nice feature for riders is looks like you can set up to 7 fields peer screen...










deporteporvida.com


----------



## the5krunner

New model announced Suunto SPARTAN SPORT

And there will also be an optical version by christmas (hey don't blame me...I'm just the messenger!!!). Bear in mind though that many women find using chest straps tricky so be nice 

apologies for posting a link to my own site. I know it annoys some people but the internet kinda works on links. i've put the press release in here and some new images: https://the5krunner.com/2016/07/06/suunto-spartan-sport-new-model-announced/. i jsut checked and the press release is NOT YET on the SUUNTO site.

there's also a link to a Danish language hands-on on facebook that has been doing the rounds (I'll let someone else post that link)


----------



## batareikin

MoLu said:


> Well, not exactly the best battery life ever seen (18h for max data, only 15d in watch mode), but I guess that's the price one has to pay for a high-res touch screen. But then also only one alarm per day (come on, even the T6 had three!), no altitude graph etc...guess it's better to wait for some reviews before even considering.



Battery life in time mode10 days

For its dimension (13.8) and high-res touch screen it is a good trade off

As a comfortable EDC Spartan Sport targets a lot of ppl!


----------



## orks

What about Find back and Track back functions on Spartan ultra?


----------



## MoLu

anto1980 said:


> Where did you read this?


Suunto Spartan Collection - adventure multisport GPS watches
Scroll down to "Sports expertise" and click on "Accurate sport metrics".


----------



## Hecke

thanks guys! No more waiting. Time to rob a bank!


----------



## Glajda

So no apps?
Can't race your previous activity?

Frankly, apart from the different screen it doesn't have any new features compared to the Ambit 3. In some departments it actually lost some features.
Any info on how much memory it has or how many moves you can store before it's full?


----------



## anto1980

Ok, seen!
Seems that the Sport model has the HR sensor disabled now. So a question: 
Why the Ultra one does not have?!


MoLu said:


> anto1980 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you read this?
> 
> 
> 
> Suunto Spartan Collection â?? adventure multisport GPS watches
> Scroll down to "Sports expertise" and click on "Accurate sport metrics".
Click to expand...


----------



## neldiogo

anto1980 said:


> Ok, seen!
> Seems that the Sport model has the HR sensor disabled now. So a question:
> Why the Ultra one does not have?!


"The Suunto Spartan family will continue to expand throughout this year and additional Suunto Spartan Sport models featuring both Smart Sensor and wrist heart rate measurement will be introduced for Christmas."

It's a new version of the Sport. Probably Spartan Ultra would be to big with the HR wrist sensor.


----------



## matej123

So bottom line. It has touch color screen, but that is it?? No new functions, just worse battery life than Ambit series. So is there any new things that is worth upgrading?


----------



## starks

Regarding the 7 fields at the same time: Everywhere I read, it seems to say it's for cycling. If there's this functionality I can only hope that it would be available for running, too. Anyone has any info on this?

For example,it would be cool to see the Distance, Activity time, Current Pace, Average Pace, Altitude, Ascent and Heart Rate/Battery at the same time. Then, I wouldn't need to change screens on a trail run in most cases.


----------



## rdm01

It's available for running too.


----------



## newtonfb

So much for that 200hr battery life. Looks like it maxes out at 65hrs. Still decent for color and touch though. I still can't justify the price unfortunately.


----------



## matej123

I say it is interesting watch, but for that price i canot imagine anyone would buy. For me is 500 eur top for this watch and sport variant for 300-350 max.

Anyway, when will be this watch available ?


----------



## rdm01

matej123 said:


> I say it is interesting watch, but for that price i canot imagine anyone would buy. For me is 500 eur top for this watch and sport variant for 300-350 max.
> 
> Anyway, when will be this watch available ?


They said Ultra in August, Sport in September and Sport + OHR in late 2016

deporteporvida.com


----------



## gianky73

the price is crazy... totally unjustified... i hope in a lower street price...


----------



## dcrespo

do you guys think it will be a sapphire all black model of the Suunto Sport?


----------



## bruceames

I couldn't justify that price, not with already owning a perfectly good A3P Sapphire. The only new feature that really appeals to me is having more display fields.


----------



## morey000

The Spartan Sport hits the mark for me. I'm looking for a watch that I can wear every day and am willing to give up a little battery life for thinness to fit under a dress shirt sleeve. I hit the gym, run or pool from my office and that way, I never need to decide which watch to wear to work. 13.8mm is thinner than the A3S (15.5mm). F3 (16mm) and even thinner than the new A3 Vertical (15mm). With a nicely cut stainless steel bezel, I like its looks. Maintains the battery life of the A3S, with a zippy new color touch screen, new training features- all in a thinner package. the marketing guy that said this is what people want... were talking to me.

The ONLY times I've been battery life limited on my 8hr (1s) A2S, is for ultras. Which is like once a year for me, and I just leave a charger in a drop bag. Has always worked out fine. I'm presuming that the clip will stay on while running and that you can re-charge on the fly. 

I won't be an early adopter. Will need to let others work out the bugs and verify GPS accuracy is solid, but other than that, this is my next watch. Yeah, the 735xt is small and well featured... but it just doesn't have an upscale look. the F3 is good looking, but lacking in GPS accuracy- plus I like some of the unique Suunto features, like fused pace, real-time HR during swim with my optical HR sensor, and much prefer the Movescount web site to Garmin's.

I'm fairly impressed that the relatively small team at Suunto is showing up to the table with a relevant and competitive line of smart sport watches to compete with Garmin. they must be working their assess off. 

Kinda' hope that Suunto just buys their optical HR sensor from Mio, rather than trying to develop their own. It'll cost a little more for them... but it will work. As for the price- an F3 is $500. A Spartan Sport is $550. worth it (pending how well the watch works). But then again, I'm comparing a watch that's been around for a year, to one that doesn't exist yet. Not really fair. Garmin could announce an F4HR before the Spartan Sport is hitting the streets. It's a dog eat dog world out there.


----------



## MoLu

matej123 said:


> So bottom line. It has touch color screen, but that is it?? No new functions, just worse battery life than Ambit series. So is there any new things that is worth upgrading?


Well it also has vibration, some route planning aspects seem to be Spartan-specific, and also some features for training plans. A bit hard to compare some of the features, as they are sorted into different categories for different watches (e.g. EPOC under 'heart rate' for Ambit3, but 'sport modes' for SSU).

I also realize that I have to take back my disappointed comment about the battery, for some reason I had 50h battery time in my mind for the A3Peak, but that was, of course, not the best-GPS-setting as I thought. Considering the screen it's actually impressive that they made it work with only a 10% drop (on paper).


----------



## fr_cowboy

I understand the strategy targeting runners, ultras, and triathletes. But but mountaineers , it does not fit my expectations anymore: longer batteries, baro data, track back... hope they works on an alpinist version.


----------



## AirVetra

No barometric altitude and othe functions based on the preassure in the Sport??? Face pulm...


----------



## user_none

AirVetra said:


> No barometric altitude and othe functions based on the preassure in the Sport??? Face pulm...


That's following in the tradition of the Ambit3 Sport. Shrunken size and shrunken price; something has to be cut.


----------



## bruceames

user_none said:


> That's following in the tradition of the Ambit3 Sport. Shrunken size and shrunken price; something has to be cut.


To think that barometric altitude has to be cut from a watch just to get it down to $550 is laughable, IMO.


----------



## newtonfb

bruceames said:


> user_none said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's following in the tradition of the Ambit3 Sport. Shrunken size and shrunken price; something has to be cut.
> 
> 
> 
> To think that barometric altitude has to be cut from a watch just to get it down to $550 is laughable, IMO.
Click to expand...

Or the fact that a slightly bigger battery and barometric sensor are $200+ is laughable.


----------



## BillyX

Nothing really interesting to upgrade to the Spartan. 

And the biggest reason not to buy it: The awful screen for the time. 30-year old watch design on a LCD screen?!? Really?!?


----------



## gimegime

Well so far so good for this watch. I am likely to get the Spartan Ultra but am also not an early adopter and will wait and see the early reviews and feedback from users before I jump in. So far though this watch has the potential to be the standard for GPS sports smartwatch.

The vids I have seen on the screen look fantastic and I am yet to read a negative comment form anyone who has actually had their hands on a demo. That is telling in my opinion. The battery life exceeds the Fenix 3 GPS mode, the features seem great and the 7 data fields on the screen could be a game changer (should they be viewable). I need to see that GPS accuracy has not been compromised and want to hear about the 80 sports modes and software features, but straight up this watch on the surface ticks all the boxes I am looking for. The big question with this watch is if the premium is worth it compared to the competition. I am prepared to pay the premium price for the watch I have been waiting for, only providing the accuracy and quality of Suunto is still there. As sure as the sun rises and falls certain tech bloggers will say the opposite. I will base my decision on more than one opinion. 

I have been on the lookout to update my Ambit 1 for 2 years now but have held off in the belief that the Apple watch would see competitors make rapid advancement in technology and style. Unfortunately the increase in $$$ is also matched. The Ambit 2 & 3 just did not have enough of a revolutionary changes I was looking for to justify an upgrade for me. Having previously owned Garmins, and returned them due to reliability accuracy problems, I am not going to buy any watch unless I can see a solid and knowledgable customer base reporting few problems. Whether the watch is $400 - $1000 AUD I am not buying unless I am sure of the quality of data.

And this is the problem I have with Garmins. I waited for the release of the Fenix 3 as this seemed the perfect watch and I was happy to pay the premium price. I like a watch I can wear in and out of the office. The colour screen, the features, the look and feel, all about this watch should be perfect for me. BUT GPS accuracy is a deal breaker for me. If I can't get accurate pace/GPS Track/speed I am just not going to use it. And in my mind the 1000's of forum posts on the Garmin Forums and complaints from people I see using them is enough for me to steer clear. I take this over the reviews of Garmin favouring tech bloggers any day of the week.

The 920XT is a fantastic watch, and still my favourite. GPS accuracy is close to the Ambits, and the features like quick release and UI make it a market leader in my opinion. But the look is not of an every day watch. Will be a shame for Garmin to retire this watch range if thats what they end up doing. Very close but no cigar.

The 735XT is a plastic imitation in my opinion. It has poor battery life, same GPS issues as the Fenix 3, altimeter is plagued with problems and the watch is prone to crashes. I know this because I had two (first was a gift) and returned them both. And the standard integrated OHRM is enough for me. For triathletes like myself, no one uses this watch and I don't see that changing. It probably has a place in the market for Park runners, particularly if the 920XT is retired, but you are welcome to it.


----------



## gousias

Does anyone knows whether the Bluetooth function include a manual turning on/off and also what kind of connection with a smartphone can offer this watch? For example, does it offer notifications with sound or vibration or both for phone calls, for sms or anything else?
Another question, especially to anyone who has tested or knows about it, if the watch will include storm, tide, moon notifications?


----------



## iapyx

Could it be that there are Suunto employees active on this forum so there show up some positive posts about this Spartan?

Anyway, I agree with BillyX that the design is - in his words - 30 years old. Quite an achievement: this watch runs the wrong way: back in time


----------



## gimegime

iapyx said:


> Could it be that there are Suunto employees active on this forum so there show up some positive posts about this Spartan?
> 
> Anyway, I agree with BillyX that the design is - in his words - 30 years old. Quite an achievement: this watch runs the wrong way: back in time


Go and search twitter for spartan ultra and see the number of positive to negative comments of people that have actually had this watch in their hands.

That should answer your question thats its likely just you.


----------



## margusl

With 30-year old design, are you refereing to this -

__
http://instagr.am/p/BG_fubjhsar/
 ?
So THE greatest no-go for whole Spartan range is existance of a single watch face? Wow..


----------



## gimegime

margusl said:


> With 30-year old design, are you refereing to this -
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BG_fubjhsar/
> ?
> So THE greatest no-go for whole Spartan range is existance of a single watch face? Wow..


I get that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all, but really it doesn't look all that dissimilar to an Ambit in my opinion. Still has the Suunto look and feel. I also get that some will be very anti touch screen. Providing the watch can be used effectively by the 3 buttons as well, then touch was an inevitable evolution and one that Suunto has been behind the competition.

I haven't seen this vid posted here before, so apologies if it has and I have just missed it. I like it.........................which clearly makes me a Suunto employee o|

[video]https://www.facebook.com/highlytunedathletes/videos/1153974497956260/[/video]


----------



## iapyx

Oh c'mon. I am a huge Suunto fan. Spent quite some money on several watches (2x Observer, M6hrt, Ambit2. For me looks of a watch are important. The Spartan is just not (yet) for me. Maybe after a restyle it is... 
If it had the looks of the Ambit I would likely buy one. 

And the comment about suunto employees was just in general. Not addressed to someone in particular. Just been wondering out loud. No judgement.


----------



## danscoular

A question about the Spartan: I have just used the "compare" feature on the Suunto website, setting my existing Alpha, Ambit 3 and Spartan Ultra. Some key points for me (possibly niche) are the Ultra does not appear to show Weather Trend, Storm Alarm or compass units in Mils.

I am a little surprised that there's no Trend/Storm Alarm: does this mean that the Ultra is strictly an athlete's watch, and less directed to mountain sports/exploring? 

...Or does it do the same things, but in a different way?


----------



## FlashLighter

gousias said:


> Does anyone knows whether the Bluetooth function include a manual turning on/off and also what kind of connection with a smartphone can offer this watch? For example, does it offer notifications with sound or vibration or both for phone calls, for sms or anything else?
> Another question, especially to anyone who has tested or knows about it, if the watch will include storm, tide, moon notifications?


It does have notifications and vibration, and it even has an Airplane mode, where it turns off wireless connection, which is now mandatory in EU. As of now, no weather functions, so primarily a athletes watch. It is still unclear if they will add weather info over smart phone connection, which would be nice.


----------



## Garda

iapyx said:


> If it had the looks of the Ambit I would likely buy one.


I owned Ambit 1 too. And I think it was one of the nicest looking watches out there. If it would have been about 14 mm thick and without the antenna bulge ... aah perfect ... and a keeper until it would have fallen apart. 
Very interesting will be Spartan Sport version with optical heart rate, that comes out at Christmas time. If they use Mio´s or Valencell´s (Scosche Rythym+) sensors, it will be very good and reliable.


----------



## morey000

gimegime said:


> ... I also get that some will be very anti touch screen. Providing the watch can be used effectively by the 3 buttons as well, then touch was an inevitable evolution and one that Suunto has been behind the competition...


"The menus can be navigated using either the touchscreen, or the 3 buttons (scroll up, select, scroll down) on the right side of the watch."  (from "highy tuned athletes" on FB)

The user interface of past Suunto's has been well thought out. I don't expect them to make beginner mistakes on something like this. They know that their market is filled with outdoor enthusiasts... that sometimes wear gloves.

From the videos and images, the screen looks bright, sharp and clear. That's certainly a feature worth paying a little extra for.


----------



## morey000

morey000 said:


> ...
> Kinda' hope that Suunto just buys their optical HR sensor from Mio [or Valencell], rather than trying to develop their own. It'll cost a little more for them... but it will work. ...


According to DCRainmaker today- it's Valencell's Optical HR. YAY!


----------



## Garda

They will use Valencell's sensors, but plan to focus more on 24h monitoring rather then workouts. I am sure as we get closer to the launch we will know more how they will implement the sensor during workouts.


----------



## martowl

I have not weighed in here yet but have owned a lot of Suunto's. I will miss the 200h battery on the Ambit Peak as I do not need to recharge when fast through hiking but... I only do this about once per year and I can live with a small battery. I will miss the weather trend data, it is helpful when not at home. But not deal breakers for me.

For racing the battery life is sufficient, I should be able to finish most of my 100 milers in 36h with those few that are longer or very hard I will bring a charger. oops, have to change that 26h in Good mode is pretty short for me, bummer. I will be carrying a charger...wish they could have eked out a few more hours. If the Sport version had a barometer I might consider it but not for me without it.

The major positives
1. For training the watch is significantly upgraded providing REAL training both personal and coached without using another platform. This includes comparisons, both peer group and self as well as recovery and rest, which appear enhanced. I use training load in rubiTrack and may not need that anymore.

2. Navigation, which I use a lot appears significantly upgraded. A big plus for me and more important than the storm trend so I am willing to take this as a trade off. By the way, the watch specs state that routes will be downloadable to the watch from mobile devices so I assume changes in the app will allow downloadable routes. WooHoo!

3. The screen looks great. Don't care if it is color or not but won't complain. More customizable than the Ambit and having a few more or less data fields will be good.

I will likely get one, the pluses that will be implemented in training and navigation are worth it for me. I am glad to see Suunto attempting to integrate Movescount with the watch to provide a platform rather than a simple repository for watch data. The heat maps are incredible and I have already used them to download new routes. Strava may have a higher density but you cannot download routes or gpx files from Strava's global heat maps. I like that the Suunto heat maps are sport specific.

Spartan Ultra here I come.


----------



## dcrainmaker

Garda said:


> They will use Valencell's sensors, but plan to focus more on 24h monitoring rather then workouts. I am sure as we get closer to the launch we will know more how they will implement the sensor during workouts.


It's the opposite of what you noted.

(For one, Suunto says so. But two, Valencell actually specializes in workouts and not 24hrs. Best I can tell, this will be a first for them to do any sort of 24x7 monitoring.)


----------



## neldiogo

martowl said:


> I have not weighed in here yet but have owned a lot of Suunto's. I will miss the 200h battery on the Ambit Peak as I do not need to recharge when fast through hiking but... I only do this about once per year and I can live with a small battery. I will miss the weather trend data, it is helpful when not at home. But not deal breakers for me.
> 
> For racing the battery life is sufficient, I should be able to finish most of my 100 milers in 36h with those few that are longer or very hard I will bring a charger. oops, have to change that 26h in Good mode is pretty short for me, bummer. I will be carrying a charger...wish they could have eked out a few more hours. If the Sport version had a barometer I might consider it but not for me without it.
> 
> The major positives
> 1. For training the watch is significantly upgraded providing REAL training both personal and coached without using another platform. This includes comparisons, both peer group and self as well as recovery and rest, which appear enhanced. I use training load in rubiTrack and may not need that anymore.
> 
> 2. Navigation, which I use a lot appears significantly upgraded. A big plus for me and more important than the storm trend so I am willing to take this as a trade off. By the way, the watch specs state that routes will be downloadable to the watch from mobile devices so I assume changes in the app will allow downloadable routes. WooHoo!
> 
> 3. The screen looks great. Don't care if it is color or not but won't complain. More customizable than the Ambit and having a few more or less data fields will be good.
> 
> I will likely get one, the pluses that will be implemented in training and navigation are worth it for me. I am glad to see Suunto attempting to integrate Movescount with the watch to provide a platform rather than a simple repository for watch data. The heat maps are incredible and I have already used them to download new routes. Strava may have a higher density but you cannot download routes or gpx files from Strava's global heat maps. I like that the Suunto heat maps are sport specific.
> 
> Spartan Ultra here I come.


Suunto Heatmaps are really amazing! I know my training ground pretty well but I have found a few new trails in the past weeks just because of heatmaps. They work much better then Strava. 
We can check our moves already made against a heatmap. And the drawing of a route is made with the heatmap wich I think you can't with Strava. This feature alone is gold to me.

I don't see how they can leave weather info out. Maybe all the specs are still developing.


----------



## TylerCreviston

I looked over the official specs and comparison pages for the Spartan Sport and Spartan Ultra. 

Incidentally I'm looking at this from the perspective of a hiker / mountaineer / hunter / outdoorsman type profile, but I prefer to wear the same watch all the time, so I really like the smaller size of the Sport (in spite of the battery life trade off).

A couple significant things pop out to me:

1) The only significant physical difference is the thickness. 13.8mm for the Sport and 17mm for the Ultra. This was kind of a given considering the battery life differences.

2) The Sport has mineral glass while the Ultra has sapphire.

3) The Sport is limited to 1 grid system: decimal degrees (this format: 47.2245° N, 127.3351° W). This is a huge pain in the ass for GPS navigators! I get that it's aimed at the sports and training market, but it REALLY sucks that someone would have to upgrade from a normal sized Sport watch to the Ultra Thick to get access to standard GPS grid systems. Minutes are a super useful at-a-glance navigation tool since they're about a mile (depending on location).

4) I'm confused about the barometer. The Sport's specs claim that it can display barometric pressure, but not barometric elevation, which seems insane because elevation is just a simple calculation based on the pressure. If there's a pressure sensor in the Sport, it seems like barometric elevation would be included. Then when you click over to the comparison page, it's unclear whether the Sport can display pressure at all.

It's not a huge deal to me not having barometric elevation, since the GPS elevation is probably more accurate. I'd be very interested to hear from people who'd prefer to have a barometric elevation regarding why they have that preference.

5) I'm also confused about the thermometer. (I use my watch all the time to measure water temp while swimming; it's a must-have feature.) The Sport's specs page says it has a thermometer with a 1° resolution, but the product comparison page says that it does not display temperature (but still says it has a 1° resolution, which makes no sense).


----------



## martowl

TylerCreviston said:


> I looked over the official specs and comparison pages for the Spartan Sport and Spartan Ultra.
> 
> Incidentally I'm looking at this from the perspective of a hiker / mountaineer / hunter / outdoorsman type profile, but I prefer to wear the same watch all the time, so I really like the smaller size of the Sport (in spite of the battery life trade off).
> 
> A couple significant things pop out to me:
> 
> 1) The only significant physical difference is the thickness. 13.8mm for the Sport and 17mm for the Ultra. This was kind of a given considering the battery life differences.
> 
> 2) The Sport has mineral glass while the Ultra has sapphire.
> 
> 3) The Sport is limited to 1 grid system: decimal degrees (this format: 47.2245° N, 127.3351° W). This is a huge pain in the ass for GPS navigators! I get that it's aimed at the sports and training market, but it REALLY sucks that someone would have to upgrade from a normal sized Sport watch to the Ultra Thick to get access to standard GPS grid systems. Minutes are a super useful at-a-glance navigation tool since they're about a mile (depending on location).
> 
> 4) I'm confused about the barometer. The Sport's specs claim that it can display barometric pressure, but not barometric elevation, which seems insane because elevation is just a simple calculation based on the pressure. If there's a pressure sensor in the Sport, it seems like barometric elevation would be included. Then when you click over to the comparison page, it's unclear whether the Sport can display pressure at all.
> 
> It's not a huge deal to me not having barometric elevation, since the GPS elevation is probably more accurate. I'd be very interested to hear from people who'd prefer to have a barometric elevation regarding why they have that preference.
> 
> 5) I'm also confused about the thermometer. (I use my watch all the time to measure water temp while swimming; it's a must-have feature.) The Sport's specs page says it has a thermometer with a 1° resolution, but the product comparison page says that it does not display temperature (but still says it has a 1° resolution, which makes no sense).


I will comment on the altitude, it is FusedAlti that is great on the Suunto's combining barometric pressure changes with GPS correction. In real time GPS altitude readings by a watch are not very accurate. I prefer to know whether I have 300 feet or 1000 feet of climbing remaining. Typically the changes in pressure over shorter time periods are elevation changes and drift occurring over longer periods are atmospheric. The FusedAlti does a very good job of correcting the atmospheric changes. I do not believe the GPS altitude is useable in real time, it wasn't in the last batch of watches I used.


----------



## Chrisly

martowl said:


> I will comment on the altitude, it is FusedAlti that is great on the Suunto's combining barometric pressure changes with GPS correction. In real time GPS altitude readings by a watch are not very accurate. I prefer to know whether I have 300 feet or 1000 feet of climbing remaining. Typically the changes in pressure over shorter time periods are elevation changes and drift occurring over longer periods are atmospheric. The FusedAlti does a very good job of correcting the atmospheric changes. I do not believe the GPS altitude is useable in real time, it wasn't in the last batch of watches I used.


Having used both Ambit3 Sport and Peak I can confirm that GPS altitude isn't very accurate. After cycling a route of 50km with A3 Sport and coming back to where you started, the total ascent and descent can easy differ 20%. With the FusedAlti it's down to one or two percent.


----------



## neldiogo

Chrisly said:


> Having used both Ambit3 Sport and Peak I can confirm that GPS altitude isn't very accurate. After cycling a route of 50km with A3 Sport and coming back to where you started, the total ascent and descent can easy differ 20%. With the FusedAlti it's down to one or two percent.


Same for me...Had Ambit3 Sport for 6 months, exchanged for Ambit3 Peak and the differences are not negligible for trail use. Will never go back to a watch without barometric altimeter


----------



## Quotron

The info on DCR is quite interesting, especially the Excel sheets showing the differences with the Spartan and A3P.

Suunto announces new Spartan Ultra GPS watch, rolls out refreshed Movescount site | DC Rainmaker

I remain rather cautious about the new Spartan. Despite some of the (welcome) changes I'm not sure there is a lot there versus an Ambit 3 Peak for my purposes.


----------



## TylerCreviston

Chrisly said:


> Having used both Ambit3 Sport and Peak I can confirm that GPS altitude isn't very accurate. After cycling a route of 50km with A3 Sport and coming back to where you started, the total ascent and descent can easy differ 20%. With the FusedAlti it's down to one or two percent.


When you get back to where you started and let it get a fix, does it report the same elevation reading as when you started, or is it off by that same 20%?

That sounds like more of an issue with measurement intervals and ascent / descent calculation than with accuracy in any given spot. (Which is also definitely a problem.)



martowl said:


> In real time GPS altitude readings by a watch are not very accurate. I prefer to know whether I have 300 feet or 1000 feet of climbing remaining.


I could understand it being temporarily off while moving quickly on a bike or glissading down a mountain but am stumped to hear that it's barely reliable within 1000 feet while slowly making your way up a mountain.

My handheld GPS (old garmin, and X-motion GPS iphone app) have always been right on the money elevation wise. Within a few meters.

Are these watches really that much less accurate than a handheld?


----------



## gimegime

Quotron said:


> The info on DCR is quite interesting, especially the Excel sheets showing the differences with the Spartan and A3P.
> 
> Suunto announces new Spartan Ultra GPS watch, rolls out refreshed Movescount site | DC Rainmaker
> 
> I remain rather cautious about the new Spartan. Despite some of the (welcome) changes I'm not sure there is a lot there versus an Ambit 3 Peak for my purposes.


Wow....just wow. The slide deck from suunto showing all the training load and recovery features are incredible.

For my purposes, as a triathlete/adventure racer this watch is amazing and in my opinion potentially places it at a clear leader over anything Garmin offers. Very interesting to read the change in comments on DCRs blog from negative to positive with the release of this info.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Miszka

gimegime said:


> Wow....just wow. The slide deck from suunto showing all the training load and recovery features are incredible.


Same here. Went through all the 91 pages of the PowerPoint the DCR posted, and just got floored. And drooling. Need to wait for the tests, especially the GPS bezel antenna and real world battery life, but I'm totally in the Ultra Sport camp. Beat that, Garmin!


----------



## neldiogo

Miszka said:


> Same here. Went through all the 91 pages of the PowerPoint the DCR posted, and just got floored. And drooling. Need to wait for the tests, especially the GPS bezel antenna and real world battery life, but I'm totally in the Ultra Sport camp. Beat that, Garmin!


Still not excited because we have training load already in Movescount and the data doesn't seems very useful, or I really not getting it. Suunto should really do a simplification of all the features on Movescount. Focusing on providing clear, easy to read info. Till now they simply show load amounts of data without giving user easy way to make sense of it.


----------



## Hecke

neldiogo said:


> Focusing on providing clear, easy to read info..


The point is that neither training, nor your body is accurately described by some algorithm you can put in a platform like movescount. To properly train, we need experience or an experienced coach. And we need data as objective as possible. That is what Suunto is providing. Uncompromised data. The more the better. Make sense of it is to your own.

All this 'great workout, you ran faster than last week' stuff is encouraging bad training. Having an educated feedback to a workout (in the light of your goals and the previous workouts, former race performances etc) is still only possible by a human observer. Suunto is trying to deliver a very professional training tool, they are not claiming to have found the ultimate formula to success (as some other platforms do). I appreciate that. It shows respect towards their customers.


----------



## martowl

TylerCreviston said:


> When you get back to where you started and let it get a fix, does it report the same elevation reading as when you started, or is it off by that same 20%?
> 
> That sounds like more of an issue with measurement intervals and ascent / descent calculation than with accuracy in any given spot. (Which is also definitely a problem.)
> 
> I could understand it being temporarily off while moving quickly on a bike or glissading down a mountain but am stumped to hear that it's barely reliable within 1000 feet while slowly making your way up a mountain.
> 
> My handheld GPS (old garmin, and X-motion GPS iphone app) have always been right on the money elevation wise. Within a few meters.
> 
> Are these watches really that much less accurate than a handheld?


For the GPS altitude to work the satellites must allow the device to determine the difference in elevation. GPS accuracy for small devices is probably 1-3m. From the altitude of the satellites, the difference in 3m horizontal is much easier to determine than vertical since a number of different satellites can be used to increase the accuracy. For elevation measurements it simply does not work well and the devices must employ correction. These are a lot better now but the total ascent/descent and real time info at any given time will not be very good. This explanation by DCRainmaker is pretty good and should help. When you say yours are spot on, is that afterwards? Was the data corrected? I specifically stated in real time. I think you will find that real time data from GPS elevation alone accumulates a lot of errors due to the nature of the measurement.


----------



## margusl

Actually Suunto has managed to tweak GPS altitude so it's suprisingly good, well, sometimes. When conditions permit. But it's still way better than I thought was possible about 5 years ago.
As an example you can take a look at some Moves recorded with Peak with gps_altitude app. As Movescount does not have a way to see Moves made with certain apps - 
https://www.google.com/?gfe_rd=cr&g...+"ambit3+sport"+site:www.movescount.com/moves ( Or you can find some past trailrunning events to compare altitude profiles and asc / desc from different watches )

Just turn on altitude + gps altitude graphs on those Moves. In some cases it's as bad as one would expect, if not worse. Then again both Alt. figures are within few meters. But still, continious GPS altitude is always noisy and to get somewhat usable Asc / Desc figures from this, it has to be heavily filtered. Getting a single good absolute altitude reading is much easier - you usually stand still, antenna is pointed to sky and in many cases you want to check msl altitude when you are above tree line anyway.
FusedAlti works for a same reason, it can pick a moment when vertical error is minimal or within limits - your hand is in a correct position, there's a opening in treecover and number of sattelites in view jump to e.g. 8 from 4 for a few seconds.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Hecke said:


> The point is that neither training, nor your body is accurately described by some algorithm you can put in a platform like movescount. To properly train, we need experience or an experienced coach. And we need data as objective as possible. That is what Suunto is providing. Uncompromised data. The more the better. Make sense of it is to your own.
> 
> All this 'great workout, you ran faster than last week' stuff is encouraging bad training. Having an educated feedback to a workout (in the light of your goals and the previous workouts, former race performances etc) is still only possible by a human observer. Suunto is trying to deliver a very professional training tool, they are not claiming to have found the ultimate formula to success (as some other platforms do). I appreciate that. It shows respect towards their customers.


What Suunto is planning re. coaching should be mentioned in the sales deck (of slides) DCR posted... It's all gonna be interesting. Also with all the "this feature will be implemented later" messages, meaning (us) reviewers will be getting back to the Spartan collection regularly for updates...


----------



## iapyx

You guys here probably all know this already, but for me it's new, from DCRainmakers update: No apps on the Spartan [not yet]

The one big ticket item that we kinda knew was coming was right now existing Ambit series apps won't convert/work on the Spartan platform. Additionally, at launch there won't be a way to create any apps on the Spartan platform. However, Suunto says they're looking at what their options are for adding in that functionality down the road.


----------



## bruceames

I'm sorry but without barometric altitude (on the Sport) the watch is useless for ascent/descent metrics. GPS altitude will give you an accurate reading for point data, but for cumulative ascent, rate of ascent, or any dynamic altitude data, it is way off (the error increases the more vertical you do). If you live and train in a relatively flat area or just don't care about ascent/descent data, then the Sport is for you. I think Suunto is making a mistake in keeping barometic altitude exclusive to the Ultra. There are many I'm sure who want a lower profile (and less expensive) watch but absolutely want this important feature as well. Again, $550 for a watch with no barometric altitude seems ridiculous to me. I would consider it otherwise. I'm not wearing a humongous watch like the Ultra on my wrist 24/7 but something like the Sport would be doable. Suunto should (if they haven't already) consider a Sport model that includes barometric altitude, even if they have to charge an extra $50 for it.


----------



## morey000

bruceames said:


> ..., $550 for a watch with no barometric altitude seems ridiculous to me...


_Ugh, I can't believe that Garmin charges $500 for a Fenix with no touch screen. And a dull, unimpressive color screen at that. Why don't they just put a proper screen in it and charge $50 more?  Can you believe that the 735xt doesn't display 7 metrics? how could they even make a watch like that- it's just firmware. And $450 for a watch without a metal bezel and not barometer? crazy! etc._

*All I can say right now, is that the Ambit 2S on my wrist is looking archaic. *_(it has worked flawlessly for me for nearly 3 years)_


----------



## bruceames

Ok Morey, at least I gave my honest opinion. If you want to mock it, then fine. Whatever floats your little boat.


----------



## Oberkfell

bruceames said:


> I'm sorry but without barometric altitude (on the Sport) the watch is useless for ascent/descent metrics. GPS altitude will give you an accurate reading for point data, but for cumulative ascent, rate of ascent, or any dynamic altitude data, it is way off (the error increases the more vertical you do). If you live and train in a relatively flat area or just don't care about ascent/descent data, then the Sport is for you. I think Suunto is making a mistake in keeping barometic altitude exclusive to the Ultra. There are many I'm sure who want a lower profile (and less expensive) watch but absolutely want this important feature as well. Again, $550 for a watch with no barometric altitude seems ridiculous to me. I would consider it otherwise. I'm not wearing a humongous watch like the Ultra on my wrist 24/7 but something like the Sport would be doable. Suunto should (if they haven't already) consider a Sport model that includes barometric altitude, even if they have to charge an extra $50 for it.


Why doesn't movescount correct the ascent and decent, like Strava does. It's annoying as hell


----------



## morey000

bruceames said:


> Ok Morey, at least I gave my honest opinion. If you want to mock it, then fine. Whatever floats your little boat.


it's a large boat.


----------



## Quotron

morey000 said:


> it's a large boat.


People stop you on the street all the time to tell you how yuge it is...


----------



## TylerCreviston

martowl said:


> When you say yours are spot on, is that afterwards? Was the data corrected? I specifically stated in real time. I think you will find that real time data from GPS elevation alone accumulates a lot of errors due to the nature of the measurement.


When I say spot-on I just mean that the elevation on the GPS matches known elevations within a few meters, like my house, sea level, or the elevations marked on maps and trailheads and benchmarks.

It's looking like it's fairly accurate if you stand around and get a good fix, but much harder to remain accurate on the move. I can see now why people don't want to be without a barometric altitude.



bruceames said:


> I think Suunto is making a mistake in keeping barometic altitude exclusive to the Ultra. There are many I'm sure who want a lower profile (and less expensive) watch but absolutely want this important feature as well. Again, $550 for a watch with no barometric altitude seems ridiculous to me. I would consider it otherwise. I'm not wearing a humongous watch like the Ultra on my wrist 24/7 but something like the Sport would be doable. Suunto should (if they haven't already) consider a Sport model that includes barometric altitude, even if they have to charge an extra $50 for it.


I totally agree! And it seems _especially _insane to me because according to the specs, the Sport contains a barometer! Either it has a barometer and they're crippling it on purpose by removing that feature from the firmware, or the specs of the Sport are incorrectly listed and it doesn't actually have a barometer.

It's the same situation for the grid system limitation. There's no reason to not enable multiple standard grid systems on the Sport other than forcing people to upgrade to the Ultra. Like you, I'd happily pay extra to enable this feature while sticking with the Sport form factor.


----------



## newtonfb

morey000 said:


> bruceames said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..., $550 for a watch with no barometric altitude seems ridiculous to me...
> 
> 
> 
> _Ugh, I can't believe that Garmin charges $500 for a Fenix with no touch screen. And a dull, unimpressive color screen at that. Why don't they just put a proper screen in it and charge $50 more?  Can you believe that the 735xt doesn't display 7 metrics? how could they even make a watch like that- it's just firmware. And $450 for a watch without a metal bezel and not barometer? crazy! etc._
> 
> *All I can say right now, is that the Ambit 2S on my wrist is looking archaic. *_(it has worked flawlessly for me for nearly 3 years)_
Click to expand...

Don't be arrogant. The Peak was the best watch when it launched at $499, and when the Fenix 3 launched with updated features ( color screen) it was was $499. If you think the $800 price tag on the Spartan is right than that's fine....pay the $800 but most ppl won't pay the he $800. I love suunto just as much as the next guy but I feel they overpriced themselves out of the general market. I will keep using my peak until the next watch that impressed me comes along. I thought it would be the Ambit 4 but I was mistaken. The fenix 4 should be announced in January and I'm going to assume it's going to have the same features as the Spartan and a price tag of $499.


----------



## bruceames

TylerCreviston said:


> I totally agree! And it seems _especially _insane to me because according to the specs, the Sport contains a barometer! Either it has a barometer and they're crippling it on purpose by removing that feature from the firmware, or the specs of the Sport are incorrectly listed and it doesn't actually have a barometer.
> 
> It's the same situation for the grid system limitation. There's no reason to not enable multiple standard grid systems on the Sport other than forcing people to upgrade to the Ultra. Like you, I'd happily pay extra to enable this feature while sticking with the Sport form factor.


Wow, then I hope the Sport does include a barometer after all. Totally would not make sense to not use it for altitude if it does.


----------



## TylerCreviston

bruceames said:


> Wow, then I hope the Sport does include a barometer after all. Totally would not make sense to not use it for altitude if it does.


Yeah the Sport specs page says this:

*WEATHER*
*Temperature resolution*: 1°
*Pressure resolution*: 1 hPa / 0.03 inHg

I'm not sure why it'd tell you the resolution of the thermometer and barometer if it doesn't have a thermometer or barometer. Maybe it gets that info from your phone somehow?


----------



## bruceames

TylerCreviston said:


> Yeah the Sport specs page says this:
> 
> *WEATHER*
> *Temperature resolution*: 1°
> *Pressure resolution*: 1 hPa / 0.03 inHg
> 
> I'm not sure why it'd tell you the resolution of the thermometer and barometer if it doesn't have a thermometer or barometer. Maybe it gets that info from your phone somehow?


Interesting. My guess would be that it's a typo. Much more likely that, then having a barometer just to use for weather but not for altitude (especially since they seem to removing weather-related features on the Spartan series).


----------



## anto1980

Do not think that the Sport have a barometer... Probably an error on the specs!


TylerCreviston said:


> bruceames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, then I hope the Sport does include a barometer after all. Totally would not make sense to not use it for altitude if it does.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the Sport specs page says this:
> 
> *WEATHER*
> *Temperature resolution*: 1°
> *Pressure resolution*: 1 hPa / 0.03 inHg
> 
> I'm not sure why it'd tell you the resolution of the thermometer and barometer if it doesn't have a thermometer or barometer. Maybe it gets that info from your phone somehow?
Click to expand...


----------



## TylerCreviston

If there's no barometer on the Sport that's a shame.

Casio's thermometer / compass / barometer / altimeter sensor module is smaller than a grain of rice.


----------



## bruceames

TylerCreviston said:


> If there's no barometer on the Sport that's a shame.
> 
> Casio's thermometer / compass / barometer / altimeter sensor module is smaller than a grain of rice.


Yeah that would rule the Sport out. Hiking and trail running, the GPS-based total ascent data I find reads about 10-20% high. For me knowing how much vertical I did is just as important as how many miles I ran. Imagine having the distance being off 10-20 percent?!

I will very likely pick the Spartan Ultra at some point. But first I need to see what exactly what useful upgrades there are, and then more important see if the GPS is as accurate. If it passes the GPS test, then it's just a matter of justifying to myself paying whatever price I can find it for, based on the upgrades, and taking into account the "miles" I got out of my A3P. I generally upgrade every other year and I bought the A3 last year, so likely I would pick it up next year.


----------



## crawler2040

Well i hope they release a SPARTAN ALPINE or something like that with more functions for the outdoors mountain trail runner kind of person 

Enviado desde mi GT-P5100 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Sir McKey

Good morning friends,
well, as the great Lee Marvin said: "I was born under a wandering´Star..."
And I need the SPARTAN ALPINE, too. With the extra-functions of the TRAVERSE ALPHA (Moon and searchlight), please SUUNTO, do it!

Have a nice day b-)


----------



## AirVetra

Oberkfell said:


> Why doesn't movescount correct the ascent and decent, like Strava does. It's annoying as hell


Hopefully not, when you make a correction or putting an altitude marks mentioned in the maps to you GPS positions there is a huge room for inaccuracy - especially in the mountains - with horizontal GPS accuracy +-5 m (which is almost impossible on the mountain or forest trails) it will lead to 2-3 times different elevation - one-two steps from the trail left or right - +-100m of the altitude. And it looks very funny passing the tunnels with this correction - it counts you go up and down That's why i never use Strava correction and very unpleased Garmin uses it by default for my 235 watches (and passes this data to Strava)

Here is my trail run with 600 elevation - it's alway says it's 1600m elevation - I'm a super skyrunner than)

https://www.strava.com/activities/627630154


----------



## gcol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## iapyx

Hopefully they will, but just with the option that Strava gives: correct altitude? --> If there is a problem with the elevation data on your activity, you can override the elevation with corrected data. So you can leave it just as your watch recorded, or have it corrected. It would be nice if that Movescount had that option as well.


AirVetra said:


> Hopefully not, when you make a correction or putting an altitude marks mentioned in the maps to you GPS positions there is a huge room for inaccuracy - especially in the mountains - with horizontal GPS accuracy +-5 m (which is almost impossible on the mountain or forest trails) it will lead to 2-3 times different elevation - one-two steps from the trail left or right - +-100m of the altitude. And it looks very funny passing the tunnels with this correction - it counts you go up and down That's why i never use Strava correction and very unpleased Garmin uses it by default for my 235 watches (and passes this data to Strava) Here is my trail run with 600 elevation - it's alway says it's 1600m elevation - I'm a super skyrunner than) https://www.strava.com/activities/627630154


----------



## martowl

iapyx said:


> Hopefully they will, but just with the option that Strava gives: correct altitude? --> If there is a problem with the elevation data on your activity, you can override the elevation with corrected data. So you can leave it just as your watch recorded, or have it corrected. It would be nice if that Movescount had that option as well.


I have several thousand moves in Movescount, most in the mountains. I have never needed altitude correction once Suunto implemented FusedAlti. I realize that may be more of a problem with measuring smaller altitude changes at sea level but I have no need for altitude correction and I agree with AirVetra, the corrections make my altitude plots worse. I typically have no less than 300m to 400m elevation change in a 1-2h run and more for longer runs.


----------



## Oberkfell

I was speaking of the Sport with no barometric altimeter in regards to altitude correction. The ascent and descent measurement is pretty much worthless without the correction.


----------



## iapyx

martowl said:


> I have several thousand moves in Movescount, most in the mountains. I have never needed altitude correction once Suunto implemented FusedAlti. I realize that may be more of a problem with measuring smaller altitude changes at sea level but I have no need for altitude correction and I agree with AirVetra, the corrections make my altitude plots worse. I typically have no less than 300m to 400m elevation change in a 1-2h run and more for longer runs.


Therefore an option would be nice. Then it's up to yourself if you want to have it corrected or not. I agree with you that, in other words, Suuntos are quite acurate in the mountains. Here in NL, where I do a lot of bike rides in the dunes, altitudes appear to be less acurate. Even worse when uploaded to strava. Somehow there goes something wrong in the interpretation by Strava of the by Suunto gathered information.


----------



## iapyx

Oberkfell said:


> I was speaking of the Sport with no barometric altimeter in regards to altitude correction. The ascent and descent measurement is pretty much worthless without the correction.


yes, that is a pity. You could always use Strava and have it corrected. Don't know if others (Runkeeper?) offer to his too.


----------



## Quotron

iapyx said:


> yes, that is a pity. You could always use Strava and have it corrected. Don't know if others (Runkeeper?) offer to his too.


Runkeeper's altitude is the most inaccurate IME, in that it grossly overstates. For example, I did a 9mi run with my A3S (GPS alt) which Strava calculated at 1980ft* of gain, whereas Runkeeper calculated 3772ft of gain. Strava shows a max alt of 2410ft, where Runkeeper shows 2415ft. So that aspect is close (as it should be), it just appears that they calculate _gain_ in a different way.

* This same route varies from 1950-2020ft on the extremes, but the usual variance is much lower


----------



## PabloAlarcon

Justo to keep this moving  I think Suunto could have add the VO2 Max estimator, with some hard coded field test, and from there also stablish Maximun Aerobic Velocity (vVO2Max), also in Movescount the ability to set zones according to Speeds or Pace instead of just HR, or well we could just run, do an All-out or TT test and upload to Training Peaks (premium) and get the data from there...just a thought But it would be more practical to just have the test in the watch  cheers


----------



## iapyx

No countdown timer and no invert display. Battery life in time mode is 15 days (vs 30 days for the Ambit). But it has vibration alert and it has real time breadcrumb trail. 
all here to find: https://www.facebook.com/SpartanUltra/photos?ref=page_internal


----------



## morey000

Was just looking at the feature comparator list on suunto.com. Granted, these things are often riddled with errors at this stage, but there are a few running functions that are critical for me, and are currently missing from the Spartans. *Virtual (ghost) pacer *and a *race time predictor.* Ya' just can't make a high end running watch without these. Or- give me a way to write an app- it's a pretty simple calculation (as done on Ambits). your choice Suunto. It's worth $550 to ya'.  Heck- you're welcome to use my apps. Oh, and while you're at it, can you toss in DanielP's *running power* app? I like his 30s average one.


----------



## MoLu

What tells you it's not one of the 150 "Measurement parameters available on watch" that are mentioned under 'Sport modes'? They are described as "temp, altitude, speed, pace, vo2, beat to beat HR, EPOC, power, cadence, strokes and derivatives of these parameters", and considering that there even is a racing-specific sport mode it might already be there without the need for any additional apps.

Who knows, maybe the whole concept of apps was nothing but a huge survey about which software-based features people want to have? And the 50 most calculated parameters got included or so...  They definitely would be stupid not to use the information that they gathered from app-installations etc..


----------



## Joakim Agren

No barograph with weather trend data, no storm alarm, no count down timer and no switching between positive and negative display. At the same time they are discontinuing the Ambit and vertical line so are Suunto abandoning the outdoor crowd who needs such things as weather data and storm alarm? Why call it the Ultra? When such obvious holes exist compared to the Ambit 3 Peak or Garmin fenix 3!

If this watch do not have full ABC(T)+GPS functionality nor timer then it is a no go for me, especially considering the very high price! It does not deserve the Ultra name if that is the case!:rodekaart


----------



## newtonfb

Joakim Agren said:


> No barograph with weather trend data, no storm alarm, no count down timer and no switching between positive and negative display. At the same time they are discontinuing the Ambit and vertical line so are Suunto abandoning the outdoor crowd who needs such things as weather data and storm alarm? Why call it the Ultra? When such obvious holes exist compared to the Ambit 3 Peak or Garmin fenix 3!
> 
> If this watch do not have full ABC(T)+GPS functionality nor timer then it is a no go for me, especially considering the very high price! It does not deserve the Ultra name if that is the case!:rodekaart


Couldnt have said it better. Im not a triathlete, but I use my A3P all the time in the mountains. Sadly it looks like Suunto is going away from that crowd. It may now be a big crowd but it sure does not take much to add those features in.


----------



## gimegime

newtonfb said:


> Couldnt have said it better. Im not a triathlete, but I use my A3P all the time in the mountains. Sadly it looks like Suunto is going away from that crowd. It may now be a big crowd but it sure does not take much to add those features in.


All the promotional material Spartan series is for "athletic and adventure multisport", so Suunto has been quite clear at which market segment this watch is targeted at. The release of June 6 was scheduled around the ITU (triathlon) event in Leeds where they were a major sponsor which is a first for Suunto I believe at a major triathlon event.

In my opinion Suunto has made a clear decision to offer separate targeted products to the triathlon/multisport segment (Spartan Ultra) compared to the outdoors/mountaineering segment (traverse). I come from a multisport background and Garmin has always had it over Suunto with triathlon specific features and UI. This watch for what I need looks incredible and is a clear advancement over what Suunto & Garmin previously offered.


----------



## gimegime

iapyx said:


> No countdown timer and no invert display. Battery life in time mode is 15 days (vs 30 days for the Ambit). But it has vibration alert and it has real time breadcrumb trail.
> all here to find: https://www.facebook.com/SpartanUltra/photos?ref=page_internal


Not sure how an inverted display would work on a colour screen.


----------



## gimegime

MoLu said:


> What tells you it's not one of the 150 "Measurement parameters available on watch" that are mentioned under 'Sport modes'? They are described as "temp, altitude, speed, pace, vo2, beat to beat HR, EPOC, power, cadence, strokes and derivatives of these parameters", and considering that there even is a racing-specific sport mode it might already be there without the need for any additional apps.
> 
> Who knows, maybe the whole concept of apps was nothing but a huge survey about which software-based features people want to have? And the 50 most calculated parameters got included or so...  They definitely would be stupid not to use the information that they gathered from app-installations etc..


I would say this is more likely than not. For example they have added a specific UI for Interval Running, so would be surprised if they then left out both apps and the features of their most popular apps.

All the more reason to wait for the reviews to pre-order.


----------



## raducanmihai

From my old Polar RS300x I miss a feature, and I hope Spartan Ultra has it: the ability to lock a specific HR zone. You define your zones and when you reach one of them that you want to stay in, just long press a buttton. When you exit that zone an alarm sounds: slower if you went down, faster if you went over. The way this is implemented in A2-3 is a pain. You have to decide in advance one HR zone, fiddle around in the Options and lock it. 

Another feature I want is something Garmins had for years: virtual ghost racer - when you race yourself on a specific pre-recorded track.


----------



## iapyx

gimegime said:


> Not sure how an inverted display would work on a colour screen.


Not all of them have colour screens. Only the top models. 
Ultra, right? Would be nice if it had an option to switch colours off.


----------



## iapyx

Then why abandon the Ambit?
besides there are lots of combined sporters/outdoor people.



gimegime said:


> All the promotional material Spartan series is for "athletic and adventure multisport", so Suunto has been quite clear at which market segment this watch is targeted at. The release of June 6 was scheduled around the ITU (triathlon) event in Leeds where they were a major sponsor which is a first for Suunto I believe at a major triathlon event.
> 
> In my opinion Suunto has made a clear decision to offer separate targeted products to the triathlon/multisport segment (Spartan Ultra) compared to the outdoors/mountaineering segment (traverse). I come from a multisport background and Garmin has always had it over Suunto with triathlon specific features and UI. This watch for what I need looks incredible and is a clear advancement over what Suunto & Garmin previously offered.


----------



## user_none

gimegime said:


> Not sure how an inverted display would work on a colour screen.


Maybe it would go to a high contrast type display, like what can be done on computers?


----------



## gimegime

iapyx said:


> Not all of them have colour screens. Only the top models.
> Ultra, right? Would be nice if it had an option to switch colours off.


No all have colour touchscreen, 320 x 300 resolution. No idea why you would want to turn off the colours, maybe if you were colourblind perhaps. Will need to wait to see the unit I would suspect.


----------



## gimegime

iapyx said:


> Then why abandon the Ambit?
> besides there are lots of combined sporters/outdoor people.


So that people upgrade to a Spartan Ultra or a Traverse or whatever is coming in the future. The physical differences/features may not be that great between a Traverse and an Ambit but just looking at the marketing material out there you can see exactly who its targeted at. I suspect you will eventually get a Traverse Ultra/Spartan Alpine but not until 2017 considering the Traverse was released in 2015.

Ambits never caught on in the Multisport/Triathlon community, as much as I like them, because Garmin specifically targets this segment by making specific watches/features for triathlon. Suunto, with the Ambit, hedges their bets by offering a wide cross of features to try to appeal across segments. They just aren't seen as a watch for Triathletes no matter how good the build and accuracy. Ambits are popular in the Ultra community but you rarely see one at a Triathlon.

Obviously all my humble opinion.


----------



## martowl

newtonfb said:


> Couldnt have said it better. Im not a triathlete, but I use my A3P all the time in the mountains. Sadly it looks like Suunto is going away from that crowd. It may now be a big crowd but it sure does not take much to add those features in.


The Traverse appears to be the watch for the hiking/trekking folks. The Ultra appears to have more advanced routing capabilities from the specifications text and I agree is more aimed at the athlete. I am not a triathlete but with the exception of a weather indicator, which I cannot use when I am in the mountains because I am recording altitude changes or the storm alarm, which again is not useable when I am in altitude mode (all the time I am in the mountains) I think it will be much better for route planning and providing an altitude profile, something I will find far more useful. I can get weather from other sources and often use my senses to judge weather.

I expect, as others have said, that Suunto will update the Traverse or come out with a watch with the Ultra hardware targeted to mountaineering (after all, Ueli Steck is Suunto sponsored and I would argue a world class mountaineer).


----------



## Quotron

MoLu said:


> Who knows, maybe the whole concept of apps was nothing but a huge survey about which software-based features people want to have? And the 50 most calculated parameters got included or so...  They definitely would be stupid not to use the information that they gathered from app-installations etc..


So that means the app that shows how many beers you've burned off/earned will be on the watch...awesome b-)



Joakim Agren said:


> Why call it the Ultra? When such obvious holes exist compared to the Ambit 3 Peak or Garmin fenix 3!
> 
> If this watch do not have full ABC(T)+GPS functionality nor timer then it is a no go for me, especially considering the very high price! It does not deserve the Ultra name if that is the case!:rodekaart


Ultra likely refers to ultra-marathon/ultra-running, not to a qualifier on the number of features...


----------



## iapyx

I am curious if there will be a ghostrider-app or chase racer-app on the watch. You aim for a specific average speed (adjustable on the watch) and while riding the app tells you how far you are behind or ahead (in meters/yards) of the average speed.


----------



## Rem_

There will not have ghostrider-app or alike looking at this comparison , but as seen on DC's 91 slides , slide 39 "SUUNTO APPS COMPATIBILITY LATER", this may be possible in the future.
Still, SUUNTO would not provide what is available with GARMIN for years now is "Virtual Race" i.e. comparison vs previous exercice , not only vs fixed pace.
Similarly, in Navigation Mode, SPARTAN will not provide ETA or remaining distance following path but just useless "flyby distance" and that's a pity.


----------



## iapyx

Ah, I did not yet go through all DC's slides. Thanks @Rem_
A "Virtual Race" like what Garmin offers sounds nice. 
I imagine looking up a previous ride with circumstances alike (wind force and direction, etc). That would be cool. 
You hear that, Suunto?


----------



## MoLu

Quotron said:


> So that means the app that shows how many beers you've burned off/earned will be on the watch...awesome b-).


Sure, you only have to choose beforehand in Movescount your planned refreshments among a selection of >200 drinks.


----------



## martowl

iapyx said:


> Not all of them have colour screens. Only the top models.
> Ultra, right? Would be nice if it had an option to switch colours off.


From all promotional materials and specs so far ALL Spartan models have color screens. I doubt that will change.


----------



## iapyx

martowl said:


> From all promotional materials and specs so far ALL Spartan models have color screens. I doubt that will change.


Yes, you are correct. I thought I had read this in one of the images, but have to agree with you.


----------



## martowl

Mine is pre-ordered. Stealth Titanium. Will post GPS tracks with Ambit3 comparisons. Looking forward to it!


----------



## NickYanakiev

I pre-ordered mine about 10 days ago. Ultra All Black Titanium HR. I briefly had the Ambit 3 Peak HR and while GPS accuracy was on another level compared to my old Fenix 3HR, the user interface and the joy of using the watch were just not there. 
I understand that Cotswold Outdoor UK are to start shipping pre-orders starting Aug 8. Can't wait to see some proper first impressions!!


----------



## NickYanakiev

It is slightly concerning that the antenna seems to be integrated in the bezel as with the Fenix 3. The Ambit 3 Vertical and Traverse seem to be quite bad in GPS accuracy terms, I found out that Suunto used Mediatek chips with its latest watches.

I may have to hold my horses and reconsider that pre-order...in case Suunto really moved on to Mediatek and accuracy suffers as a result. 
There are some really good deals on the Polar V800 at the moment, which I may also consider. I briefly tried the Ambit 3 Peak and while GPS was very accurate the whole watch felt extremely out of date with its user interface and mobile app/website.

EDIT: Just spoke with Suunto UK- according to their internal specification sheet, the watch has the Sirfstar VI chipset. They did not have any information on antenna placement, unfortunately. Still, great news that they did not go with Mediatek on this occasion. 

EDIT 2: Oddly enough, I can't find anything about a Sirfstar VI- I only came across the SiRFstarV/SiRFstar5e, which may be what the CS rep had in mind.


----------



## martowl

NickYanakiev said:


> It is slightly concerning that the antenna seems to be integrated in the bezel as with the Fenix 3. The Ambit 3 Vertical and Traverse seem to be quite bad in GPS accuracy terms, I found out that Suunto used Mediatek chips with its latest watches.
> 
> I may have to hold my horses and reconsider that pre-order...in case Suunto really moved on to Mediatek and accuracy suffers as a result.
> There are some really good deals on the Polar V800 at the moment, which I may also consider. I briefly tried the Ambit 3 Peak and while GPS was very accurate the whole watch felt extremely out of date with its user interface and mobile app/website.
> 
> EDIT: Just spoke with Suunto UK- according to their internal specification sheet, the watch has the Sirfstar VI chipset. They did not have any information on antenna placement, unfortunately. Still, great news that they did not go with Mediatek on this occasion.
> 
> EDIT 2: Oddly enough, I can't find anything about a Sirfstar VI- I only came across the SiRFstarV/SiRFstar5e, which may be what the CS rep had in mind.


I am going to run with both the Ultra and Ambit3 Peak to test GPS accuracy. If the Ultra isn't as good back it will go. I have 30 days to decide. I should have enough time to race test it at Run Rabbit Run 100 as well.


----------



## MoLu

Seems like Suunto released another marketing video yesterday: 



Still nothing but Triathlon disciplines and Multisport-like activities, not even a hint of alpine sports (not even alpine trail running).


----------



## NickYanakiev

Yeah, I can't help but notice the same. Let's hope that they are keeping the best for last ie navigation and using the watch for trail running etc.


----------



## gimegime

MoLu said:


> Seems like Suunto released another marketing video yesterday:
> 
> 
> 
> Still nothing but Triathlon disciplines and Multisport-like activities, not even a hint of alpine sports (not even alpine trail running).


Looks amazing. Cannot wait to get my hands on one

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Zirconn

MoLu said:


> Seems like Suunto released another marketing video yesterday:
> Still nothing but Triathlon disciplines and Multisport-like activities, not even a hint of alpine sports (not even alpine trail running).


Those days, everything is a computer and quite a powerful one. Unless they really skimp on the memory (which I doubt), I think they will keep evolving the platform and adding missing features for some time.
I bought an Ambit 1 at the release and they kept adding lots of missing features for quite some time. I see no reason not to expect the same from Suunto.


----------



## gousias

By this you mean that it could be possible to see some missing features (such as sunrise/sunset, tide, moonlight etc) in a future update of firmware or would that be against the plans of SUUNTO for keeping the market with more models doing only few things each one rather than with a couple ones doing most or all?


----------



## kris92

I don't know if someone noticed this first review.
Since this is my first post, I can't post http links. So remove all spaces from the next line.

http : / / gearkr . com / ?p= 57031


----------



## bruceames

Here is the above link without the spaces.

抢先上手！首款SUUNTO彩色触屏腕表Spartan Ultra体验 | 评测 | GearKr


----------



## NickYanakiev

English version?????


----------



## Racing24

NickYanakiev said:


> English version?????


Perhaps run it through Google Translate in Chrome.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


----------



## NickYanakiev

Of course, just finished reading the article. I guess I was too eager to read it, instead of thinking of using google translate


----------



## bruceames

Racing24 said:


> Perhaps run it through Google Translate in Chrome.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


Yeah Chrome translates everything for me automatically.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> Mine is pre-ordered. Stealth Titanium. Will post GPS tracks with Ambit3 comparisons. Looking forward to it!


Look forward to your comparisons. I'd like to order it myself (the Titanium), but I want to order it from REI because I have a $100 gift card and I get 10% back as well. But right now they only have the Ultra White version for preorder.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

bruceames said:


> martowl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is pre-ordered. Stealth Titanium. Will post GPS tracks with Ambit3 comparisons. Looking forward to it!
> 
> 
> 
> Look forward to your comparisons. I'd like to order it myself (the Titanium), but I want to order it from REI because I have a $100 gift card and I get 10% back as well. But right now they only have the Ultra White version for preorder.
Click to expand...

REI shows the black one as well right now. Although it's not the titanium.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Not so little to be seen in that "review", but given the state of affairs Suunto reps at the OutDoor Friedrichshafen told me about, real reviews (based on devices which are actually usable during sports, not just sales samples) will have to wait until mid-August at least.

I'm heading out to China this week, until mid-August, and wanting to do a review that's based on a few weeks of use, and use at the proper events (given the training progress features of the Spartan, plus our intended uses) at that, it'll probably be the beginning of September (when I'll also have my toughest and longest mountain ultramarathon of this year) until I publish my review... Just for a heads-up while the rest of the Suuntonians wants to all be first...

Photo I was able to take at the fair:

__
http://instagr.am/p/BHzJVErhmlO/


----------



## Teriemer

Good thing Suunto also build the Sport version. The Ultra version sure looks very chunky on that girls tiny armwrist, seen in the China preview. Yet I'm holding off till we see the OHR version (in Sport)...


----------



## batareikin

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Photo I was able to take at the fair:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BHzJVErhmlO/


Finally there is a side by side photo of Kailash / Spartan Ultra.

It is clearly visible that Kailash is bigger by a fraction of a millimeter, and it is according specifications (50.4 vs. 50.0)
But how it comes Spartan looks like the same thickness as Kailash, if there is a big difference (17.0 vs. 14.7) ?


----------



## MoLu

Is it perhaps not the Ultra but the Sport?


----------



## FlashLighter

MoLu said:


> Is it perhaps not the Ultra but the Sport?


That one on his hand is Ultra, Sport has different bezel.


----------



## tommy_h1

the harm is done, just (pre)ordered a Spartan Ultra Black (hr)...


----------



## Racing24

tommy_h1 said:


> the harm is done, just (pre)ordered a Spartan Ultra Black (hr)...


Likewise...now the waiting game begins!

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


----------



## bruceames

Yeah the upgrade bug is starting to affect me too and the Ultra is a totally different beast from the Ambit line. Not sure about spending an extra $100 for a titanium bezel. Is it worth it? Also I'm a little skeptical about the bezel antenna. But if it doesn't match the A3 in reception initially, it could get updates down the line to improve it (although I wonder by how much, if any). If REI doesn't carry the titanium then I might just go ahead and order the regular black. It's plenty pricey enough as it is I'll probably use it only for a couple of years until the next model comes out.

Another thing to consider: this is a 1st gen watch and Suunto came out with 2nd gen watches with huge improvements on both the X9 and Ambit lines only a year later. So a lot of things to consider, but it is really tempting to get this watch.


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> Look forward to your comparisons. I'd like to order it myself (the Titanium), but I want to order it from REI because I have a $100 gift card and I get 10% back as well. But right now they only have the Ultra White version for preorder.


The major problem I am worried about is charging while running...I could simply use the 60 min fix and may consider doing just that as it appears from the Korean Review photos that the charger will prevent you from wearing the watch while charging. We do not know if the watch will function when charging either. The Ambits work well in this regard. I have 30d to return so I will put the watch through its paces. I am a bit more ambivalent about this than I was the Ambit3.....


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> The major problem I am worried about is charging while running...I could simply use the 60 min fix and may consider doing just that as it appears from the Korean Review photos that the charger will prevent you from wearing the watch while charging. We do not know if the watch will function when charging either. The Ambits work well in this regard. I have 30d to return so I will put the watch through its paces. I am a bit more ambivalent about this than I was the Ambit3.....


Well in my case it's probably going to be at least two years before I would attempt a 100 mile ultra (God willing, not getting any younger). I've thought about the best way to do that without giving up accuracy and I've considered bringing an extra watch instead of a charger (since I have an A2 and A3). Hopefully the Ultra will work while charging, would be a step back if not. Besides, they know ultra runners do this and that their watches are popular with them.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Thanks guys. I'm a bit under the wind from the thought that I won't manage to have one of the earliest reviews (and maybe some affiliate sales)... but you all are pre-ordering already, anyways. And then, by the looks of it, it will be like it was with the original Ambit: first a review, then an update adding major features necessitating another review, then - who knows, the Sport model, OHR, more updates and reviews?

I'm off to China until mid-August; have fun!


----------



## edit0r

Hello guys 

First post 

I am coming from Polar V800->Fenix 3 HR and I've never had a Suunto.
I was spoiled by great GPS accuracy of the Polar V800... and Fenix 3 HR was a big disappointment....
I bought the Fenix 3 HR based on web reviews and although most of them said it has good (or solid) GPS performance... i found out that it was bad compared to V800.... let me say it again... Fenix 3 HR with Glonass ON has way worse precision than V800 or that don't have Glonass.

I started to read this thread since the beginnings mostly because I was interested of Suunto users opinions and because I really like the watch design, menu style, not so much the touchscreen on a sport watch but time will tell... 

Because I did not had information on the Suunto in general I read the Traverse and Vertical threads and to be honest I was disappointed by the GPS performance compared to Ambit 3

I am afraid that the new Suunto Spartan will have the same performance as Vertical and Traverse and it will disappoint. So far nobody managed to build a good bezel antenna it seems...

I am waiting the users opinions because I don't trust the reviewers since my Fenix 3 HR experience... how in the world you can call the Fenix 3 HR performance good or solid when is has the same performance of the Fenix 3... that is bad or decent at best.... and there are countless posts on the Garmin forums to prove it...


----------



## bruceames

Nice 1st post and welcome! Yeah GPS reception from a bezel antenna is what's giving me pause more than anything (the other is the price). You may be right in that no one has built a bezel antenna that's as good as the patch ones. Like you I'm looking forward to comparisons.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Just cancelled my old preorder and placed a new one right thereafter. Cotswold Outdoor were kind enough to give me a one off 20% voucher as part of their members' club scheme. 
Thus, I got the Spartan Ultra Titanium HR for £450 in total after cashback. I am willing to take a little risk with GPS accuracy given that the discount is quite substantial- Cotswold have a thirty day returns policy as well so I should have all bases covered.​


----------



## Oberkfell

I used to think the bezel antenna on my traverse was close to the accuracy of my ambit3. But, that was is the spring. Once all the leaves came out in the area I run (trails) it was apparent I was wrong about the comparison. The nub is much more accurate. The tracks are clearly skewed on the traverse Not so much where the distance is off a great deal, but nevertheless less it's off. Usually short on distance. The ambit seems to alway have the tracks of a loop overlaid almost dead on. The traverse....offset. 

Bezel/Glonass < Nub/Glonass Free 

Maybe the new flagship model will fix the issue.


----------



## edit0r

Oberkfell said:


> I used to think the bezel antenna on my traverse was close to the accuracy of my ambit3. But, that was is the spring. Once all the leaves came out in the area I run (trails) it was apparent I was wrong about the comparison. The nub is much more accurate. The tracks are clearly skewed on the traverse Not so much where the distance is off a great deal, but nevertheless less it's off. Usually short on distance. The ambit seems to alway have the tracks of a loop overlaid almost dead on. The traverse....offset.
> 
> Bezel/Glonass < Nub/Glonass Free
> 
> Maybe the new flagship model will fix the issue.


The Fenix 3 HR proved to work the same... the users of the Fenix 3/Fenix 3 HR that run in the rural areas or desert like areas (very few or no trees at all, no high buildings around or not al all) have good or even very good tracking.
The users that run in the city (with medium/high buldings around, trees and other obstacles) or the users that run in the woods or on the trail ( in the spring/summer/autumn, where there are plenty of trees and foliage) have very bad to decent tracking..

Also, if you run with the watch face up you get improved GPS precision, another proof that the antenna design is not able to provide enough quality data for the chipset in order to have a good or very good tracking.

I also preordered the Suunto Spartan Ultra Black and I've chosen this model because I don't consider that the Titanium bezel, a simple round piece of metal is worth 100$. On top of that having the bad experience with the Fenix 3 HR gray coated bezel that it scratches pretty easily leaving silver marks that don't look good at all I would not risk to have the same experience with the black titan bezel. Did i also mention that I like the contrast from the stainless steel bezel and buttons and the rest of the black watch? 

Suunto is breaking new price records with this watch... and I am sorry to say but for the features presented at launch, although it's true that things could change for the better in time, is an very expensive piece of gear.
Also I hope it could take some beating because no matter how careful you are sooner or later you will scratch it, hit it... the more expensive that watch it is the more stressed you will be if you break it.... the more expensive the repairs will be....

Also looking at the strap shape it looks like they made the strap proprietary again, limiting the options that we have regarding customisation. After reading the Suunto forums I was impressed by how many people complain by the bad quality of the straps and their big price.... hope they will make a decent quality silicone strap on the Spartan, that lasts at least 1 year


----------



## edit0r

I can't edit my own post to add more info... so annoying... don't like this type of forums.

I wanted to add that even if some of the runs were wobbling wobbling the distance measured in the end by the Fenix 3 HR was very very good. I gotta give it to Garmin, don't know how it does it.


----------



## iapyx

edit0r said:


> I can't edit my own post to add more info... so annoying... don't like this type of forums.
> 
> I wanted to add that even if some of the runs were wobbling wobbling the distance measured in the end by the Fenix 3 HR was very very good. I gotta give it to Garmin, don't know how it does it.


And that while your name is 'edit0r'


----------



## edit0r

iapyx said:


> And that while your name is 'edit0r'


Yeah, yeah, yeah... the irony


----------



## mitsumaru

Yesterday one big electronics store together with Suunto had a pre-order campaign for Spartan (100 pieces only). HR belt included and three year warranty, 649€, only black and white models were available. Deliveries start on Monday 25 July. So real life feedback will certainly come soon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NickYanakiev

Where are you based? Pre-orders here in the UK start shipping from August 1st. Can't wait to see some real life hands on with the Spartan!


----------



## mitsumaru

NickYanakiev said:


> Where are you based? Pre-orders here in the UK start shipping from August 1st. Can't wait to see some real life hands on with the Spartan!


In Finland.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edit0r

mitsumaru said:


> Yesterday one big electronics store together with Suunto had a pre-order campaign for Spartan (100 pieces only). HR belt included and three year warranty, 649€, only black and white models were available. Deliveries start on Monday 25 July. So real life feedback will certainly come soon.


Thank you very much for the great news.
Can you please keep us posted if you happen to find a review or user feedback of any kind... maybe on a finnish forum that we can't search for because we don't know the language... anything is welcome (we'll use Google translate)


----------



## NickYanakiev

Morning everyone,

Anyone heard anything new- be it impressions, feedback or simply seen the watch being tested in the wild?
We are getting closer and closer to release date and news on this new gadget have dried up completely as opposed to getting intensified as they should have. 

Suunto marketing not doing a great job it would seem (or lack of budget?). At least we were made aware that there will be a small pre-release on 25.07- there will hopefully be some more news after Monday.


----------



## gimegime

NickYanakiev said:


> Morning everyone,
> 
> Anyone heard anything new- be it impressions, feedback or simply seen the watch being tested in the wild?
> We are getting closer and closer to release date and news on this new gadget have dried up completely as opposed to getting intensified as they should have.
> 
> Suunto marketing not doing a great job it would seem (or lack of budget?). At least we were made aware that there will be a small pre-release on 25.07- there will hopefully be some more news after Monday.


This makes me laugh sorry. Why on earth do you think that because you haven't seen any pre-release reviews/reports that necessarily means this is a marketing fail?

All I have seen is marketing releases, videos, glossy pics etc. It's obviously their strategy to do so prior to release date and a simple Twitter search reveals a stack of hits and articles for a product that no one has been able to review. That's the epitome of marketing success to get traction off the back of marketing material.

Then compare this to the last Garmin release for the 735xt. They went with blanket silence until release day. So quite literally no one knew the was coming, they may have suspected, until it dropped. At which point reviews were ready the day you could purchase.

Everyone is overly eager to get their hands on this watch due to the excitement they have generated. Speaks for itself

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gimegime

Sorry should say, point of comparison to the 735xt is to point out that there are different strategies and some involve releasing nothing until the most opportune time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NickYanakiev

What you say makes me laugh a little too. Let's face it- Suunto is no Garmin in both not being able to afford a failed product and not having as wide a market to target. Subtle marketing mere days before release may not be the best strategy for them. I have not seen any of the big tech related media outlets talking about the Spartan recently. Buzz is everything nowadays and makes the difference between a good but niche product and a Garmin Fenix 3.


----------



## gimegime

Right so buzz is everything....but not for the market leader yeah.......the market leader with the most resources....yet just chooses not to according to you.....righto then.

Seriously if you can't see what looks like a fairly obvious marketing strategy then I doubt I will convince you. But I will leave you with this....when you have a limited budget, particularly compared to a behemoth in the same segment, you make what spend you have count. So you use it when it's most effective, ie, right on release when people can actually get their hands on the product. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NickYanakiev

Mate, go ahead and interpret my words in as many ways you want. Being confrontational is not helping get your point across FYI. Where did I claim that Suunto should be doing, or indeed can do, as much marketing as Garmin? I am just finding their marketing strategy to be pretty out of sync with what sells a product. It is not some posts on Twitter by pro athletes and a couple previews that can do the trick. 

I can assure you that getting some of the most popular bloggers out there like DC Rainmaker/Jeff Rizzo/5k Runner can get the job done for you by reaching all their readers. How? Just get them the product to preview- something that Suunto never does, unlike Garmin. Thus, it is not just about big vs small but also about having the vision of how to best market a product with the least possible expenditure.

There is almost complete radio silence at the moment, which is no good in my view.


----------



## Rem_

Looking at how eagerly you want more info on this watch seems Suunto marketing strategy works pretty well on you at least


----------



## NickYanakiev

LOL, good point. I want Suunto to succeed with this one as it looks quite promising. I just hope that they deliver on the GPS accuracy front, more in line with the Ambit 3 and not like the Vertical/Traverse.


----------



## edit0r

@Rem_ @gimegime guys, please. I come here to read news about the future Suunto watch not to see you you guys decided to annoy NickYanakiev. It's not fun or informative.



NickYanakiev said:


> LOL, good point. I want Suunto to succeed with this one as it looks quite promising. I just hope that they deliver on the GPS accuracy front, more in line with the Ambit 3 and not like the Vertical/Traverse.


The GPS being as good as the Ambit 2 or Ambit 3.... no, not gonna happen... At best it will be close  If they did not succeed in Vertical or Traverse I don't see them pulling the rabbit out of the hat with Spartan.

I've seen the GPS antenna from my V800 and seen the GPS antenna from the Ambit 2.... it's BIG... To have the same quality reception you need something similar... but they don't have the space for that in the Spartan.

I hope I am wrong !

Watch this to see how big is a good GPS antenna


----------



## bruceames

NickYanakiev said:


> LOL, good point. I want Suunto to succeed with this one as it looks quite promising. I just hope that they deliver on the GPS accuracy front, more in line with the Ambit 3 and not like the Vertical/Traverse.


That's the $64,000 question, how the GPS accuracy will deliver. If it's on par with the A3 then it will do well. If it's on par with the F3 and Vert/Traverse then not so well and the A3 will still be very relevant and sought after.


----------



## newtonfb

Some people just take the suunto opinions way too personal. If I didn't know any better I'd say they work for suunto. Like I said before...we all own suunto products and want them to succeed or we wouldn't be on this forum. At the same time constuctive criticism is good for every company, don't be so butt-hurt over an opinion someone has.
I for one think the marketing for the Spartan isn't good. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, just an opinion.


----------



## Larry115

Just a quick question...I bailed on Suunto because of how poorly my ambit3 was working with the movescount app. I purchased a Fenix 3 HR waiting for Suunto to release something new. I'm not an ultra athlete and train Swimming, biking and running. I usually train an hour a day, but biking I will train 2 hours. Do you feel it's worth my while to wait for the Spartan sport or jump on the pre-order list and get the Ultra sooner. I'm only concerned about the watches thickness, not price. I sold the Fenix 3hr as soon as I saw that Suunto had made the Spartan...the Fenix 3 was right at the max thickness I could tolerate wearing the watch 24/7. Any opinions as I'm super excited about this watch....


----------



## Larry115

Just a quick question...I bailed on Suunto because of how poorly my ambit3 was working with the movescount app. I purchased a Fenix 3 HR waiting for Suunto to release something new. I'm not an ultra athlete and train Swimming, biking and running. I usually train an hour a day, but biking I will train 2 hours. Do you feel it's worth my while to wait for the Spartan sport or jump on the pre-order list and get the Ultra sooner. I'm only concerned about the watches thickness, not price. I sold the Fenix 3hr as soon as I saw that Suunto had made the Spartan...the Fenix 3 was right at the max thickness I could tolerate wearing the watch 24/7. Any opinions as I'm super excited about this watch....


----------



## Tabinho

Today is the day? 

I'm very curious.

For now I will wait for the OHR reviews later this year or most probably next year as my ambit 3 is only 6 months old and I love it, so please don't post a review saying the ultra is awesome!!!


----------



## edit0r

One thing that puzzles me : I don't really understand the Suunto marketing tactics, they are selling the watch but not sending samples to reviewers?
Either this is the new tactic, people spreading the word and not the reviewers or the watch firmware is not really up for pro reviewers.

Began to have second thoughts about buying this watch.. the more I look at it's features and specifications... the more I realise that it's REALLY expensive and not sure that it's worth the money... 685 Euros :S


Ah, well, time will tell


----------



## edit0r

Larry115 said:


> Just a quick question...I bailed on Suunto because of how poorly my ambit3 was working with the movescount app. I purchased a Fenix 3 HR waiting for Suunto to release something new.


If you were disappointed by the Movescount app back then you might get disappointed again. If you don't like the app no matter how great the watch sooner or later you will hate your purchase decision... Play with the app before buying the watch..
Or, better, buy the watch from a store where you can return in 30 days no questions asked. That way you can test the watch and the app and see if the app got better to suit your needs.



Larry115 said:


> I'm not an ultra athlete and train Swimming, biking and running. I usually train an hour a day, but biking I will train 2 hours. Do you feel it's worth my while to wait for the Spartan sport or jump on the pre-order list and get the Ultra sooner. I'm only concerned about the watches thickness, not price. I sold the Fenix 3hr as soon as I saw that Suunto had made the Spartan...the Fenix 3 was right at the max thickness I could tolerate wearing the watch 24/7. Any opinions as I'm super excited about this watch....


From the pictures I've seen, and the online specifications the Spartan Ultra is pretty much the same thickness of the Ambit 3 Peak. Go to a store and try an Ambit 3 Peak out and see if you find the thickness decent.
If the watch thickness is a big issue for you then you better wait for the Spartan Sport version.

Ambit 3 Peak thickness : 18mm
Suunto Spartan Ultra thickness : 17mm
Suunto Spartan Sport : 13,8mm


----------



## Miszka

Larry115 said:


> Just a quick question...I bailed on Suunto because of how poorly my ambit3 was working with the movescount app.


Having had the same problems I moved all my online workouts to Strava, freeing myself from the burden of sticking to one brand. You can "suck" all your workouts from Suunto, Garmin, Polar...


----------



## rdm01

edit0r said:


> If you were disappointed by the Movescount app back then you might get disappointed again. If you don't like the app no matter how great the watch sooner or later you will hate your purchase decision... Play with the app before buying the watch..
> Or, better, buy the watch from a store where you can return in 30 days no questions asked. That way you can test the watch and the app and see if the app got better to suit your needs.
> 
> From the pictures I've seen, and the online specifications the Spartan Ultra is pretty much the same thickness of the Ambit 3 Peak. Go to a store and try an Ambit 3 Peak out and see if you find the thickness decent.
> If the watch thickness is a big issue for you then you better wait for the Spartan Sport version.
> 
> Ambit 3 Peak thickness : 18mm
> Suunto Spartan Ultra thickness : 17mm
> Suunto Spartan Sport : 13,8mm


And Ambit 3 Peak Sapphire thickness : 17mm ;-)

deporteporvida.com


----------



## user_none

edit0r said:


> Watch this to see how big is a good GPS antenna


Jeez, look at the size of the GPS antenna. No wonder the Ambit series with the nub gets such good reception. SETI should be using that thing.


----------



## edit0r

Found a web page with some more pictures of the Suunto Spartan Ultra

A Suunto Spartan Ultra élőben - Sarkcsillagsport webshop

If it was posted before I am sorry... I probably missed it...


----------



## Teriemer

mitsumaru said:


> Yesterday one big electronics store together with Suunto had a pre-order campaign for Spartan (100 pieces only). HR belt included and three year warranty, 649€, only black and white models were available. Deliveries start on Monday 25 July. So real life feedback will certainly come soon.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So any from Finland who has got one and some experience to share?

Would be most appreciated I guess ;-)


----------



## mitsumaru

Finland pre-orders. Suunto apparently only delivered to retailer's warehouse this morning (Tue), so 25th did not happen. Now Wed-Fri home deliveries likely...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## watchvids

I got info from two Finnish retailers (also the one which was promising Jul 25th deliveries) that the delivery has been delayed by Suunto. New delivery day now being Aug 15th. This new date seems to be also on Suunto's webpages now.

And also that the Android support for Spartan Ultra is also delayed until end of september! BAH!


----------



## mitsumaru

watchvids said:


> I got info from two Finnish retailers (also the one which was promising Jul 25th deliveries) that the delivery has been delayed by Suunto. New delivery day now being Aug 15th. This new date seems to be also on Suunto's webpages now.
> 
> And also that the Android support for Spartan Ultra is also delayed until end of september! BAH!


Yep, got the same message just now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rdm01

watchvids said:


> I got info from two Finnish retailers (also the one which was promising Jul 25th deliveries) that the delivery has been delayed by Suunto. New delivery day now being Aug 15th. This new date seems to be also on Suunto's webpages now.
> 
> And also that the Android support for Spartan Ultra is also delayed until end of september! BAH!


Can't believe they're going to repeat the same error they did with the Ambit3 and Android support!!!!


----------



## NickYanakiev

What a joke. August 15 for Finland, no date yet for the UK. Spoke with Suunto- no clue, spoke to the retailer- was told they have been chasing Suunto for weeks for this information.
As for no Android support- what the actual ****? I am starting to get less and less interested in this watch and company by the minute.


----------



## watchvids

rdm01 said:


> Can't believe they're going to repeat the same error they did with the Ambit3 and Android support!!!!


Indeed! No mention about Android support delay on Suunto's own webpages though. Hopefully this one is not true... I can live with two weeks delay, but if I cannot use all features of the watch from release, that kind of sucks...


----------



## chuwi

watchvids said:


> Indeed! No mention about Android support delay on Suunto's own webpages though. Hopefully this one is not true... I can live with two weeks delay, but if I cannot use all features of the watch from release, that kind of sucks...


Yes it's true, delayed for 2 weeks


----------



## Racing24

chuwi said:


> Yes it's true, delayed for 2 weeks
> 
> View attachment 8860994


Disappointing to say the least.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## anto1980

For the orders done from today or also for the orders done on 6th July???


----------



## matej123

Very disappointig news, so i wont buy this watch this year, because i have planed trip in start of August so watch wont be out for this time. Maybe i will then till Garmin puts new watch out. Suunto has bad marketing strategies.


----------



## edit0r

What I huge delay... I am also disappointed.... this means a 30-45 days delay for me... sad

Like I said a few posts back... they are not ready... they did not sent any samples for review in time... the production is not ready... probably the firmware is not ready and they had to delay the production...the Android app is not ready... However you look at it is not a great start...

All this makes me feel that I am dealing with a beta product again... like others watches from other brands were at launch... I've been there twice... with 2 other brands... so no, thank you 

I am giving up on the Spartan and I will cancel my preorder but I will definitely read what you guys have to say....

IF the hardware is great then this watch can become No 1. in about 12 months when the firmware will be mature enough.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for you guys !


----------



## Suuntan

edit0r said:


> What I huge delay... I am also disappointed.... this means a 30-45 days delay for me... sad
> 
> Like I said a few posts back... they are not ready... they did not sent any samples for review in time... the production is not ready... probably the firmware is not ready and they had to delay the production...the Android app is not ready... However you look at it is not a great start...
> 
> All this makes me feel that I am dealing with a beta product again... like others watches from other brands were at launch... I've been there twice... with 2 other brands... so no, thank you
> 
> I am giving up on the Spartan and I will cancel my preorder but I will definitely read what you guys have to say....
> 
> IF the hardware is great then this watch can become No 1. in about 12 months when the firmware will be mature enough.
> 
> I am keeping my fingers crossed for you guys !


For what it's worth, I have called suunto uk earlier today to check the expected delivery date of my preorder. I was told that the deliveries will start from 1 August and will be in batches as per preorder dates. When I asked specifically about the rumoured delay to 15 August the sales rep said this was only meant to be a guidance/ expectations management so that people don't expect delivery on 1 August. He said that the preorder watches have been manufactured and are awaiting the release instructions in the warehouse. Apparently they had a lot of preorders so he wasn't able to confirm when all preorders will be satisfied but told me that I should expect to receive mine before 15 August (preordered on 7 July). Apparently email confirming shipping should be sent couple of days before delivery. It was just a call centre personnel (answering a preorder email contact number) and a bit on a defensive so am still taking it with a pinch of salt.


----------



## morey000

edit0r said:


> ...
> All this makes me feel that I am dealing with a beta product again... like others watches from other brands ...


Maybe what's going on is delaying to get bugs out of the firmware so that you're NOT dealing with a beta product. Suunto has a reputation for solid, stable firmware to uphold, and they may have made the difficult decision to get it right before release. At least I hope. the Fenix3 was released with beta firmware that took a year to clean up. Last thing I would want is something on my wrist that I'm cursing at because it doesn't sync, loses workouts, freezed before a race, etc.

me- I'm waiting for the 13.8mm sport anyway. I've got dress shirts to fit it under.


----------



## TwiceNightly

Hi all,

Not sure how to go about posting pictures but I contacted Suunto yesterday asking if my pre-order was subject to delay. Unfortunately ALL pre-orders, whether placed before the website change or afterwards are delayed, here is what they said (I removed the names)...



> Dear XXXXX,
> 
> The announcement which we recently posted on our website about shipments commencing on the 15th of August concerns all the pre-orders of Suunto Spartan Ultra watches.
> 
> This postponement of the release of our new watches is due to the fact that the development team decided to extend the testing period in order to make extra-sure that new Suunto Spartan will meet the best quality standards for every unit and for every customer.
> 
> Thank you for understanding and we apologize for the inconveniences this may be causing.
> 
> Should you have additional questions or need further assistance, do not hesitate to contact us.
> 
> Sincerely,
> XXXXX
> Suunto Customer Support Team





I hope that helps, I'm very disappointed as I was excited to be receiving mine soon. I don't think I'll cancel but this will probably make me look around at alternatives (I've got a Fenix 3 so I won't get one of those ;-)).


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Greetings from pretty deep in China; promised myself I wouldn't go here but since I can...:

Considering the pretty major features for the Spartan Ultra that are announced as coming in September only, i.e.


Training load, rest & recovery, progress metrics, and training plans**
Peer-to-peer coaching* & **
Distance, cycling power, and altitude based personal bests by sport**
Personal bests & training insights comparisons with your peer-group* & **
**Available in September '16

...it might not be the worst thing for most people to (have to) wait until that month is closer.

Otherwise, though, I'd say Yes to most of the above: excited, disappointed, puzzled by this launch. I could explain part of it by Suunto not releasing products until they are well-functioning. And by this being Finnish summer vacation time, which is almost as bad as Chinese New Year's in terms of everything coming to a virtual standstill...


----------



## wydim

morey000 said:


> me- I'm waiting for the 13.8mm sport anyway. I've got dress shirts to fit it under.


I'm just curious, why hide a beautiful watch under a shirt ? I always proudly wear mine outside of the shirt


----------



## matej123

i know yes, but this si work for Suunto to give us informations, give us hype, give us dates, give us surprises, communicate with us, not this. They have internet now, social media, YouTube... they can do marketing right. But this, this is worst realis ever!


----------



## NickYanakiev

Cotswold Outdoor have now moved their expected dispatch date from mid to late August... Suunto has been a disaster in terms of marketing/keeping prospective buyers as interested as possible in the launch.


----------



## Racing24

NickYanakiev said:


> Cotswold Outdoor have now moved their expected dispatch date from mid to late August... Suunto has been a disaster in terms of marketing/keeping prospective buyers as interested as possible in the launch.


Completely agree. I reached out to Suunto via Twitter last night and they confirmed all pre orders will now ship mid August. What a shame.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## zvojan

first review hehe 

手表 | Suunto 颂拓 Spartan Ultra的第一次亲密接触 - 爱燃烧


----------



## BillyX

watchvids said:


> And also that the Android support for Spartan Ultra is also delayed until end of september!


Which year?


----------



## Racing24

BillyX said:


> Which year?


This is one of the reasons I cancelled my pre order. Looks like the Garmin 735xt will do for now.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


----------



## chuwi

spartan ultra sport "review" Suunto Spartan Ultra & Spartan Sport Review Teaser - aussieskier.com blog - Online Ski Store


----------



## tompi

I preordered on July 15th (first day possible here in Germany) and just got an email about the delay till mid August. So it seems like there is no "first batch" to be delivered on August 1st.

I'm ok with getting the watch two weeks later than announced. Better having a solid functioning watch then, than being too much of a beta-tester.


----------



## chuwi

tompi said:


> I preordered on July 15th (first day possible here in Germany) and just got an email about the delay till mid August. So it seems like there is no "first batch" to be delivered on August 1st.
> 
> I'm ok with getting the watch two weeks later than announced. Better having a solid functioning watch then, than being too much of a beta-tester.


Just received an email talking about the delay until Aug. 15th. Mail also speaks about Android compatibility.... delayed until the end of Sept. Annoying and frustrating. Since I am android user I'm canceling my watch order


----------



## anto1980

I received the email too.


chuwi said:


> tompi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I preordered on July 15th (first day possible here in Germany) and just got an email about the delay till mid August. So it seems like there is no "first batch" to be delivered on August 1st.
> 
> I'm ok with getting the watch two weeks later than announced. Better having a solid functioning watch then, than being too much of a beta-tester.
> 
> 
> 
> Just received an email talking about the delay until Aug. 15th. Mail also speaks about Android compatibility.... delayed until the end of Sept. Annoying and frustrating. Since I am android user I'm canceling my watch order
Click to expand...


----------



## edit0r

tompi said:


> I'm ok with getting the watch two weeks later than announced. Better having a solid functioning watch then, than being too much of a beta-tester.


Looking back on the last 3 years, either is Polar, Garmin or Suunto I can definitely say that everybody who buys a new launched watch these days is gonna beta test for the brand that made the watch for at least 5 to 7 months.... I haven't seen in the last 3 years a watch, not matter how simple it's functionality was that had no bugs, that did not need bug fixing at all that did not received several bugs fixes over the course of 3-6 months.

Most brands introduced the hardware with few then programmed features and they build the rest of the features in time, so the watch was a work in progress and the users were (more or less) in a continuous state of beta testing.

That's how it's done these days....


----------



## edit0r

I read people criticising the Suunto marketing tactics a few pages back... and then I read about the delaying... the android software far from being ready... watch firmware still not ready and I ask myself : looks like the Suunto marketing is not communicating well with the other divisions inside the company...


----------



## martowl

edit0r said:


> Looking back on the last 3 years, either is Polar, Garmin or Suunto I can definitely say that everybody who buys a new launched watch these days is gonna beta test for the brand that made the watch for at least 5 to 7 months.... I haven't seen in the last 3 years a watch, not matter how simple it's functionality was that had no bugs, that did not need bug fixing at all that did not received several bugs fixes over the course of 3-6 months.
> 
> Most brands introduced the hardware with few then programmed features and they build the rest of the features in time, so the watch was a work in progress and the users were (more or less) in a continuous state of beta testing.
> 
> That's how it's done these days....


I disagree completely with this from my own experience. I bought Ambit1, 2 and 3 when they were released. There were few bugs and those bugs rarely affected the primary functions of the watch. I also purchased Garmin 610 and 920xt when they were released. The Garmins had major issues, with the 910xt the barometer simply failed to work. While the Ambit 1 acquired a great deal of promised functionality by updates, it worked with few bugs when released.

Although your statement is inherently correct as there were bugs, I do not see the bugs as equivalent. I am not a fanboy of any model and I have no experience with Polar but have heard from friends that they are very good.

Marketing for Suunto is indeed a disaster....but many of the ultra runners I know all have Ambits. There is a reason for that.....


----------



## watchvids

I agree with martowl. I've used Ambit 2 & 3 and I have been VERY satisfied with the device and it's stability. Only one training (out of 500+) was somehow corrupted that it could not be retrieved from the watch.

Outside of training, only problems were with the android connectivity. It was very unstable for a long time but Suunto made it clear that it was in beta, so not much to complain there. Nowadays the connectivity is working very nicely. Automatic reconnect, and no need to have movescount app running.

So, I have still the white Ultra on pre-order, and I will order the blue sport when it is possible.


----------



## morey000

I'm looking forward to the Spartan Ultra Sport. Love the cut of the stainless steel bezel.

but... The plot thickens:


----------



## BillyX

martowl said:


> I bought Ambit1, 2 and 3 when they were released. There were few bugs and those bugs rarely affected the primary functions of the watch.


One of the main new functions of the Ambit 3 was the connection to the mobile phone. And this started working in a usable way with Android 1.5 year after I bought the Ambit 3. And it still looses the connection sometimes, so now it is in beta stage.


----------



## martowl

BillyX said:


> One of the main new functions of the Ambit 3 was the connection to the mobile phone. And this started working in a usable way with Android 1.5 year after I bought the Ambit 3. And it still looses the connection sometimes, so now it is in beta stage.


That is not an Ambit bug but a software one for Android. My connectivity to the iPhone always works.


----------



## newtonfb

martowl said:


> BillyX said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the main new functions of the Ambit 3 was the connection to the mobile phone. And this started working in a usable way with Android 1.5 year after I bought the Ambit 3. And it still looses the connection sometimes, so now it is in beta stage.
> 
> 
> 
> That is not an Ambit bug but a software one for Android. My connectivity to the iPhone always works.
Click to expand...

It's a suunto development bug. There is no excuse for connection problems for Android or iOS in 2016. They have had problems with the mobile apps since they started. They have come a long way but its still behind other apps in the market.


----------



## SavageSS

martowl said:


> That is not an Ambit bug but a software one for Android. My connectivity to the iPhone always works.


Agree, on my Fenix 3. I can see it connect to my Android phone, and randomly disconnect and connect.
Worse still sometimes it disconnects, and won't reconnect.
Have to un-pair it from Garmin connect, reboot phone, and re-connect it again.

Thought initially it was the watch, but It's done it to my Car's entertainment system, just randomly loses connection with the phone :/


----------



## Rem_

morey000 said:


> I'm looking forward to the Spartan Ultra Sport. Love the cut of the stainless steel bezel.
> 
> but... The plot thickens:


apparently this could be Polar M600


----------



## edit0r

morey000 said:


> I'm looking forward to the Spartan Ultra Sport. Love the cut of the stainless steel bezel.
> 
> but... The plot thickens:


I hope this new watch will be an improved V800 and not another sport band...


----------



## edit0r

martowl said:


> That is not an Ambit bug but a software one for Android. My connectivity to the iPhone always works.


Don't blame it on the Android as an operating system, blame it on the slow Suunto android programmers....
Just because the Suunto app works on iOS does not mean that things are ok. There are a lot more android users in the world meaning more people suffer from the lack on interest Suunto takes on the Android platform.

Bottom line : users suffer from bugs... either is an watch bug or an android bug the Suunto Ecosystem as a whole takes a big hit the usability takes a big hit. When you buy the watch... you don't buy just the watch... you buy the services as well, the movescount, the android app, the ios app... all this allows you to fully enjoy the watch... If the watch is perfect but you can't sync it via bluetooth is a major letdown, if you can sync it but you can't analyze the data (web services down) another major letdown and so on.

And speaking of bugs in general : if on your routine (the way you set and use the watch) you did not happen to encounter one or more bugs does not mean that others have the same luck as they set and use the watch differently... they might not be so happy and they may feel like the watch is still in a beta state.


----------



## edit0r

http://nowyoucan.polar.com/

4 Days and some change remaining


----------



## chuwi

edit0r said:


> http://nowyoucan.polar.com/
> 
> 4 Days and some change remaining


it's Polar M600 (Android watch with GPS and wrist HRM). Videos & Photos at https://t.co/KImfWx6ebb

https://www.amazon.com/Polar-Smart-...I5GC2CY?tag=vs-collectables-convert-amazon-20


----------



## chuwi

Video [video]http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t50.2886-16/13869689_158071741282560_1499521963_n.mp4[/video]


----------



## rdm01

After seeing the Polar M600 pics and video and after I know Spartan hasn't got workout planner as Ambit3 got I'll think twice if I'll for the Spartan :-(


----------



## edit0r

After using my Polar V800 for more than an year I would say that I love my watch 
The watch was and is very reliable something I could not say about my Fenix 3 HR.... Fenix 3 HR needs more work... It will get there eventually.

This M600 looks like a polished version of my V800... more up to date tech, colour display, optical HR... all the goodies... I hope they kept the GPS precision of the old V800.

Goodbye Suunto... Hello Polar M600 

But I am still gonna keep an eye on Suunto Spartan because I really like what I've seen so far


----------



## wydim

watchvids said:


> I agree with martowl. I've used Ambit 2 & 3 and I have been VERY satisfied with the device and it's stability. Only one training (out of 500+) was somehow corrupted that it could not be retrieved from the watch.
> 
> Outside of training, only problems were with the android connectivity. It was very unstable for a long time but Suunto made it clear that it was in beta, so not much to complain there. Nowadays the connectivity is working very nicely. Automatic reconnect, and no need to have movescount app running.
> 
> So, I have still the white Ultra on pre-order, and I will order the blue sport when it is possible.


Damn... what do you guys do for a living to be able to afford 2 Spartans in less than 6 months !!????


----------



## martowl

rdm01 said:


> After seeing the Polar M600 pics and video and after I know Spartan hasn't got workout planner as Ambit3 got I'll think twice if I'll for the Spartan :-(


Spartan most certainly will have extensive workout planning according to the press release. (The large powerpoint presentation). It appears to be much more sophisticated than the Ambit. I am looking forward to the route planning/following. It appears that one will be able to download or follow moves/routes on the watch with more sophistication than the Ambit. These are screenshots comparing Vertical then Ambit3 then Spartan.


----------



## edit0r

chuwi said:


> it's Polar M600 (Android watch with GPS and wrist HRM). Videos & Photos at https://t.co/KImfWx6ebb


Have you had any luck identifying the pictures.... I could not find any with the new M600

Thanks


----------



## gousias

Does anyone think or know if any of these specifications or functions would be possible to be added in a firmware update or due to some lack of hardware that could not be done? I mention these:
1. countdown timer (I wonder why this simple thing is not available)
2. step counter 
3. altitude graph & difference
4. storm alarm
5. sea level pressure graph
6. moon phase calendar
7. tide information 
8. moonrise/moonset alert
9. moonrise/moonset times for selected date
10. sunrise/sunset alert
11. temperature


----------



## morey000

gousias said:


> Does anyone think or know if any of these specifications or functions would be possible to be added in a firmware update or due to some lack of hardware that could not be done? I mention these:
> 1. countdown timer (I wonder why this simple thing is not available)
> 2. step counter
> 3. altitude graph & difference
> 4. storm alarm
> 5. sea level pressure graph
> 6. moon phase calendar
> 7. tide information
> 8. moonrise/moonset alert
> 9. moonrise/moonset times for selected date
> 10. sunrise/sunset alert
> 11. temperature


The Spartan doesn't have a moon sensor in it, so the moon phase, tide, moonrise/moonset functions couldn't be added. :-d


----------



## gimegime

Outraged at Polar's marketing. Not releasing specs or reviews fora watch when I want it right now.

They mustn't know what they are doing........




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## silentvoyager

martowl said:


> I am looking forward to the route planning/following. It appears that one will be able to download or follow moves/routes on the watch with more sophistication than the Ambit. These are screenshots comparing Vertical then Ambit3 then Spartan.
> View attachment 8894026
> 
> 
> View attachment 8894042


I really doubt route planning would be any different. That is a website feature and shouldn't depend on the watch model. I am pretty sure you can use heat maps to plan a route for Ambit already. The only difference that I can see is changable zoom level and live breadcrumbs. Ambit has only 2 zoom levels and auto-zoom so for the most part it has been sufficient.

A real breakthrough would be ability to download simplified OSM maps on the watch and overlay live position / track on top of that. I know some people managed that with Fenix. But from screenshots Spartan's navigation doesn't seem to be much more advanced than navigation that was originally released with Ambit 1.


----------



## gousias

morey000 said:


> The Spartan doesn't have a moon sensor in it, so the moon phase, tide, moonrise/moonset functions couldn't be added. :-d


Sad for that! What about the rest?


----------



## morey000

gousias said:


> Sad for that! What about the rest?


I was joking. Moon parameters (rise, set, phase) doesn't require a sensor and can theoretically be added in firmware, or via an app once they get that part of it together. it's just math (or a lookup table)

since the Ultra (not the Sport) has a pressure sensor, all of those functions could be added.
and the spartan has a temp sensor in it as well, so that could be included.
I think a lot of those items are already in the watch.

If Suunto keeps them out, it would just be because they want to simplify the offerings of the current model, and create different watch versions in the future, like a "Spartan Traverse" dedicated to the trekking community or something.


----------



## gousias

Looking them in a comparison chart over their site, these are mentioned as excluded compared to traverse and kailash. 
But... I don't think that they would like to add all of them in the Spartan because that would make it an "ultrawatch" above the other models of the company! Though it seems that it would be quite easy fort he company to add them from a technical aspect.


----------



## zvojan

short preview:


----------



## snowleopardw

China edition RMB 6690 by monthly installment





















Chinese language is only available in the China edition watches.


----------



## joelc

silentvoyager said:


> I really doubt route planning would be any different. That is a website feature and shouldn't depend on the watch model. I am pretty sure you can use heat maps to plan a route for Ambit already. The only difference that I can see is changable zoom level and live breadcrumbs. Ambit has only 2 zoom levels and auto-zoom so for the most part it has been sufficient.
> 
> A real breakthrough would be ability to download simplified OSM maps on the watch and overlay live position / track on top of that. I know some people managed that with Fenix. But from screenshots Spartan's navigation doesn't seem to be much more advanced than navigation that was originally released with Ambit 1.


With Ambit 1, zoom level could not go below 500m.
With Ambit 2&3, zoom level was improved and could go down to 200m.

If it is possible with Spartan to have finer levels of zoom (100m? 50m? still waiting for more specs from Suunto on that regard), that would be a major change in navigation feature from my point of view of trail runner.


----------



## rdm01

joelc said:


> With Ambit 1, zoom level could not go below 500m.
> With Ambit 2&3, zoom level was improved and could go down to 200m.
> 
> If it is possible with Spartan to have finer levels of zoom (100m? 50m? still waiting for more specs from Suunto on that regard), that would be a major change in navigation feature from my point of view of trail runner.


Ambit3 got 100m zoom after firmware 2.0 update

deporteporvida.com


----------



## joelc

rdm01 said:


> Ambit3 got 100m zoom after firmware 2.0 update
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Thanks for the update, I did not know (and I'm the owner of an Ambit 2).


----------



## rdm01

joelc said:


> Thanks for the update, I did not know (and I'm the owner of an Ambit 2).


Anyway I noted the 200 m zoom enough for navigation ;-)

deporteporvida.com


----------



## joelc

Come visit me in Vosgian mountains in north east of France, with a complex network of trails under trees, and you will see 200m is not always enough.


----------



## Hecke

joelc said:


> Come visit me in Vosgian mountains in north east of France, with a complex network of trails under trees, and you will see 200m is not always enough.


If only Suunto would include a basic map like dim lines for trails. Be it via connection to a phone. That would make life in a forest much easier.


----------



## Jaka83

Hi forum users! I've been lurking around the forum but this is my first time posting.

I'm a proud user of the Ambit 1 and very interested in upgrading to the Spartan Ultra.
Primarily I use my watch for trekking, hiking, mountaineering, skiing and road cycling and am quite pleased with the performance of my three year old watch. The wait for an update was long, but I just couldn't convince myself that the newer watches were worth upgrading to as the Ambit 1 was quite sufficient for tracking my sport activities. As most of the users I crave for more.
Most of my activities require accurate pressure readings for elevation differences so the Sport model is a no go for me. But looking at the Spartan Ultra I think it's not completely geared towards my usage - sure I get the fancy screen, barometer, temp sensor, etc. but I haven't seen (or I've missed it) any mention of the vertical trend/tracking where on your route you are regarding elevation (like the feature the Ambit Vertical has). For example I load a GPS track into movescount and it displays a nice vertical graph of the route as well as the standard navigation map. I would like to see that vertical graph and a point of where I currently am on that graph. Does the Spartan Ultra have that or not.

I know the Ambit 1 is more than capable of displaying this as well, but Suunto refuses to update the firmware to push users towards an updgrade - I get this and am not really that angry at them for doing so (well, a little), but for a watch that costs so much money (Spartan Ultra), I would expect a feature like that to be available at launch.

I know Suunto announced that they would release different variants of the watch in the coming months, so maybe a Spartan Vertical is in the works. Let's just hope they don't hinder it's performance or have it FW limited like the last few releases of the Ambits where the hardware is basically the same and they just have different FW versions with different things turned on or off. Just make a "be all end all" watch and be done with it. Or maaaybe do an über watch and a slimmed down watch with just a smaller battery but keep the barometer and everything else intact - the Spartan Sport is pretty useless for most sports if you tie the vertical movement to unreliable GPS - even a very good GPS antenna doesn't help in some conditions.

On another note: Is it just me or do all the videos of people swiping through screens on the Spartan Ultra look very laggy and unresponsive?


Phew, I hope I didn't spam this too much, I just want to make a couple of things clear before I give my hard earned cash to Suunto again.


----------



## Teriemer

Jaka83 said:


> On another note: Is it just me or do all the videos of people swiping through screens on the Spartan Ultra look very laggy and unresponsive?


No - I noticed the same. I wonder if it's the video (25 frames pr. sec.) or the watch. I think it's the video, since from what I heard from a video, is that it's super smooth. I guess only time will tell... ;-)


----------



## Quotron

From DCR


----------



## gousias

I think that this link is not working.


----------



## iapyx

gousias said:


> I think that this link is not working.


Link works for me


----------



## anto1980

Also for me! :heart_eyes:


iapyx said:


> gousias said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that this link is not working.
> 
> 
> 
> Link works for me
Click to expand...


----------



## gousias

Are you serious? You can watch through this link?


----------



## edit0r

Quotron said:


> From DCR


And we've seen nothing new... BUMMER !

No close-ups, no menus, no close up size comparison with the other watches....

This video was more like : look, I am the first one to have it ! You want to know more... you know the drill by now.... wait some more 

Arrghhh I have to vent : I understand that Ray wants to be in the picture but we are mainly interested in the watch, switch to a close up Ray after the first 2 minutes please.... we want to see the watch, not you for 7 minutes, be reasonable, use more cameras and edit after... switch back and forth between 2 cameras, from you to the a close up of the unboxing, I expected a lot more from this video only because it comes from you !

I wasn't expecting a full size review but at least a close up shots of the watch, of the menus a bit without the backlight on, maybe in the sunlight a few seconds... and inside, a short comparison with Fenix 3, Traverse, Vertical... a nice close up unboxing... an 6-8 minute teaser unboxing that would reveal a little at least.

Later edit : Should I mention that he did not post anything about this video on his website? Why? Just to make me "subscribe" to his youtube channel?


----------



## edit0r

another video :


----------



## dcrainmaker

edit0r said:


> And we've seen nothing new... BUMMER !
> 
> No close-ups, no menus, no close up size comparison with the other watches....
> 
> This video was more like : look, I am the first one to have it ! You want to know more... you know the drill by now.... wait some more
> 
> Arrghhh I have to vent : I understand that Ray wants to be in the picture but we are mainly interested in the watch, switch to a close up Ray after the first 2 minutes please.... we want to see the watch, not you for 7 minutes, be reasonable, use more cameras and edit after... switch back and forth between 2 cameras, from you to the a close up of the unboxing, I expected a lot more from this video only because it comes from you !
> 
> I wasn't expecting a full size review but at least a close up shots of the watch, of the menus a bit without the backlight on, maybe in the sunlight a few seconds... and inside, a short comparison with Fenix 3, Traverse, Vertical... a nice close up unboxing... an 6-8 minute teaser unboxing that would reveal a little at least.
> 
> Later edit : Should I mention that he did not post anything about this video on his website? Why? Just to make me "subscribe" to his youtube channel?


Woah, take a chill pill. In no particular order:

A) The video was more like: I've got about 10 minutes to spare today on this, because I'm working on a crapton of stuff for a product release/announcement tomorrow and I know some folks want to see something on this, so here's what I can accomplish in 10 minutes. Or, I could do nothing and nobody sees anything. Your choice.
B) I often do unboxing videos of all watches, which are just like this. It's an unboxing and size comparison video. Not a menu walk-through.
C) I generally try and use a watch slightly more (even just a few hours) so I can have a specific purpose for what the video is showing and provide accurate info/statements in it
D) Adding cameras, etc all add time (lots of time for time sync, downloads, setup mics, etc...). Not end of the world time, but not 10 minutes time that I allotted for it. If time was unlimited I'd do plenty more. It's not.
E) I didn't post anything on my website because I virtually never do. I don't just publish a single video as a post, just not the way I roll. I tweeted it out.
F) Mentioning to subscribe to my channel is simply so you get new video notifications faster. If it was about increasing revenue, I'd put them on the site alone, as the revenue from YouTube is trivial.
G) As noted in the video, I plan more videos, including one tomorrow on the menus.


----------



## newtonfb

edit0r said:


> And we've seen nothing new... BUMMER !
> 
> No close-ups, no menus, no close up size comparison with the other watches....
> 
> This video was more like : look, I am the first one to have it ! You want to know more... you know the drill by now.... wait some more
> 
> Arrghhh I have to vent : I understand that Ray wants to be in the picture but we are mainly interested in the watch, switch to a close up Ray after the first 2 minutes please.... we want to see the watch, not you for 7 minutes, be reasonable, use more cameras and edit after... switch back and forth between 2 cameras, from you to the a close up of the unboxing, I expected a lot more from this video only because it comes from you !
> 
> I wasn't expecting a full size review but at least a close up shots of the watch, of the menus a bit without the backlight on, maybe in the sunlight a few seconds... and inside, a short comparison with Fenix 3, Traverse, Vertical... a nice close up unboxing... an 6-8 minute teaser unboxing that would reveal a little at least.
> 
> Later edit : Should I mention that he did not post anything about this video on his website? Why? Just to make me "subscribe" to his youtube channel?


Are you new to youtube videos? Especially unboxings and initial thoughts? The well known phone reviews or gadget reviewers for that matter, have unboxings and do this exact thing. I defiantly wanted to see more, but Ray literally got the device last night.(if you followed him on twitter you'd know that). If you want to blame anyone, blame Suunto for not sending him a unit sooner.


----------



## morey000

For those of us following the Spartan info, yeah- there wasn't that much interesting stuff in the video.
However, there was one highlight for me. How well the magnetic power interface hung onto the watch as he swung it around.
That's pretty good.

so- we've got a trick power connector. Given how many of those spring loaded clamps we've been dealing with have broken, it's a nice little upgrade.


----------



## user_none

morey000 said:


> For those of us following the Spartan info, yeah- there wasn't that much interesting stuff in the video.
> However, there was one highlight for me. How well the magnetic power interface hung onto the watch as he swung it around.
> That's pretty good.
> 
> so- we've got a trick power connector. Given how many of those spring loaded clamps we've been dealing with have broken, it's a nice little upgrade.


I was gritting my teeth just a bit while Ray was helicoperting one of the first Spartan Ultra watches. At least Suunto did it right with the strong magnet.


----------



## edit0r

dcrainmaker said:


> Woah, take a chill pill. In no particular order:
> 
> A) The video was more like: I've got about 10 minutes to spare today on this, because I'm working on a crapton of stuff for a product release/announcement tomorrow and I know some folks want to see something on this, so here's what I can accomplish in 10 minutes. Or, I could do nothing and nobody sees anything. Your choice.
> B) I often do unboxing videos of all watches, which are just like this. It's an unboxing and size comparison video. Not a menu walk-through.
> C) I generally try and use a watch slightly more (even just a few hours) so I can have a specific purpose for what the video is showing and provide accurate info/statements in it
> D) Adding cameras, etc all add time (lots of time for time sync, downloads, setup mics, etc...). Not end of the world time, but not 10 minutes time that I allotted for it. If time was unlimited I'd do plenty more. It's not.
> E) I didn't post anything on my website because I virtually never do. I don't just publish a single video as a post, just not the way I roll. I tweeted it out.
> F) Mentioning to subscribe to my channel is simply so you get new video notifications faster. If it was about increasing revenue, I'd put them on the site alone, as the revenue from YouTube is trivial.
> G) As noted in the video, I plan more videos, including one tomorrow on the menus.


Ok, Here I go again... chill pill taken... just so you know.

A) I am not saying that you do not have stuff to do and your schedule is not packed BUT I got accustom with a certain level of professionalism from you that that I did not get in this video. You are the guy that either does a fine job or it does not do it at all... and this video wasn't that, I am sorry that it sounds harsh but... it is what it is. If you have read this thread you could easily see that we all are tired of waiting and we want to see some decent video, close up, even macro videos of that watch. We want to feel the joy of seeing it close and personal, to feel like we unboxed it even if most of us will wont be able to do that for quite some time due to shipment delays.
B) Well an unboxing is all about the product. You need to take the unboxing feeling to the viewer so the close up shots are imperative. The closer the better. The viewer wants to see the details... all the details. If you want to present the product and be in the picture that is fine and understandable but you got to switch to a close up... at some point at least.... preferable back and forth between 2 cameras... but if the time is now allowing you to do so... cut and go on close up mode after a few minutes. 
C) I totally understand that... But I wanted more info on the watch, something more that I've seen in the leaks... maybe a close up to be able to see the quality of the screen (sort of) when the backlit is off and maybe not in direct light... If you got it last night as people say I understand that you can't present it in the sun.
D) As I said before... you are the guy that does it well and my expectations were high... you set the bar on my expectations along the years... not me. You really need to understand that I was tired of waiting for the product, I was tired of waiting for a decent video, some high res pictures.... and your video did not present anything that we already knew... I would have rather waited 1 more day and get a good video then seeing this first video. This first video was like another leak or teaser video...and for the interesting stuff you still need to wait.... once again.
E) Don't use twitter, my bad... it never caught up around here... but again... my bad.
F) When most ask for subscribing to the various youtube channels they do it for the revenues.... You probably don't do it for revenues but my mind is set to think like that... sorry but you have to blame all the youtube content makers that inoculated that thought into my mind all these years. Personally I don't quite understand why youtube content makers still ask for people to subscribe, if you like what you have seen you will definitely subscribe without him asking them to... 
G) Yes, I've seen that... what can I say, thank you!

I am not gonna argue any further, if you are open minded and you will definitely see some of my points if not...


----------



## edit0r

newtonfb said:


> Are you new to youtube videos? Especially unboxings and initial thoughts? The well known phone reviews or gadget reviewers for that matter, have unboxings and do this exact thing. I defiantly wanted to see more, but Ray literally got the device last night.(if you followed him on twitter you'd know that). If you want to blame anyone, blame Suunto for not sending him a unit sooner.


Seeing how quick you are to draw conclusion this is what I would have liked to see in his first video :

1. 10 minutes video max.
2. first 2 minutes him in the pictures with the box commenting on the product
3. next 1-2 minutes a close up shots with the box, box contents, watch,his hands... nothing else... really close
4. 2 minutes close up shots with the watch itself, macro mode if possible, to enjoy a new and fine design product.
5. 2 minutes close up comparison with other watches that he has around... I want to see for myself the size comparison up close... not by far away as he did... you barely see what going on.
6. the remaining minutes just some thoughts.... his first thoughts.
7. i would have liked the camera exposure to be better, given the watch is white the details are burned with the amount of light he got there and the way the camera is set.
8. I would have liked him to turn on the watch and show us the boot sequence.... so we can time it... and feel that joy of powering on an nice gadget for the first time.

To answer some of your other questions :
1. I blamed Suunto enough in my few posts that I've written here if you read them.... and I criticised Suunto already for not sending samples for review... 
2. It matters a great deal HOW you unbox it... if it does not matter to you then think of others that are not like you...

The unboxing is about the product and nothing else. You need good quality video, details, good lightning, good exposure, close up shots, macro shots.
The comments while presenting the product are most welcome because you can see the product but you can't feel it... that are lots of details that are lost when you don't have the product in your own hands.
It's not if you do the unboxing is how you do it... if you do not care about quality that does not mean that I have to be fine with it and not criticise it.

I criticises him in hopes that he could hear me and make things better with the next unboxing... Improving this aspect would help him and everyone else... it's not like all the unboxing videos are made just for me.
I explained what my expectations are just so he could see my point of view and improve things... if he wants to... all I can do is try...


----------



## gimegime

A). Seriously, it's just an in boxing vid......

B) See A




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edit0r

gimegime said:


> A). Seriously, it's just an in boxing vid......
> 
> B) See A
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


These days the quality matters the most... even for a unboxing... everything counts.

You need to continuously improve... there is always something you can do to get better...

Look at Ray's reviews, there all about quality, detail... would you settle for 300 words review knowing what a good written sport watch review looks like?


----------



## Hecke

edit0r said:


> These days the quality matters the most... even for a unboxing... everything counts.


could you please do me a favor and open a new thread about unboxing video quality if you are really into that? 
I'd like to read about Spartan Ultra updates here, and am pretty disappointed by every post that turns out to be off-topic.

thanks
Hecke


----------



## gimegime

edit0r said:


> These days the quality matters the most... even for a unboxing... everything counts.
> 
> You need to continuously improve... there is always something you can do to get better...
> 
> Look at Ray's reviews, there all about quality, detail... would you settle for 300 words review knowing what a good written sport watch review looks like?


Nah.....I think you are just plain wrong.

But don't let me stop you posting your quality control thoughts on Ray's blog now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dcrainmaker

As promised, here's the next Suunto Spartan video*, all about the menus. 16 minutes of digging through almost every option in the menus, both inside and outside: 




*Note: It's still processing (upload completed). YouTube says 24 minutes remaining. It's 4K video, so it takes a while. I'd guess another 30-60mins after that until the HD variants appear. But I figured I'd post the link now (just here) since I'm headed to bed, and that way when it shows up folks can check it out, rather than waiting till morning or so when I awake and mark it as live.


----------



## gijom

dcrainmaker said:


> As promised, here's the next Suunto Spartan video*, all about the menus. 16 minutes of digging through almost every option in the menus, both inside and outside:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Note: It's still processing (upload completed). YouTube says 24 minutes remaining. It's 4K video, so it takes a while. I'd guess another 30-60mins after that until the HD variants appear. But I figured I'd post the link now (just here) since I'm headed to bed, and that way when it shows up folks can check it out, rather than waiting till morning or so when I awake and mark it as live.


You are amazing! Have a good night.


----------



## zvojan

dcrainmaker said:


> As promised, here's the next Suunto Spartan video*, all about the menus. 16 minutes of digging through almost every option in the menus, both inside and outside:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Note: It's still processing (upload completed). YouTube says 24 minutes remaining. It's 4K video, so it takes a while. I'd guess another 30-60mins after that until the HD variants appear. But I figured I'd post the link now (just here) since I'm headed to bed, and that way when it shows up folks can check it out, rather than waiting till morning or so when I awake and mark it as live.


fantastic. thank you


----------



## Jaka83

Thanks dcrainmaker!

Could you please show what the options for customizing the sports modes in movescount are. Specifically I would like to see the hiking/trekking/mountaineering sport modes defaults and custom options. If it's not too much to ask.
Thanks again, it's a good way for us mere mortals to get a feel of the watch before shelling out a CrapTon of money.


----------



## PiousInquisitor

Jaka83 said:


> Thanks dcrainmaker!
> 
> Could you please show what the options for customizing the sports modes in movescount are. Specifically I would like to see the hiking/trekking/mountaineering sport modes defaults and custom options. If it's not too much to ask.
> Thanks again, it's a good way for us mere mortals to get a feel of the watch before shelling out a CrapTon of money.


After seeing the video you're still interested in the watch?

What about the lag? Horrible touch navigation? Inconsistent UI?

In my opinion a magical color display isn't worth the above mentioned flaws.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## gimegime

Did you watch it until the end? Right near the end of the vid you get a good comparison between pressing the buttons and swiping, and can see that there is no lag by pressing the buttons. It's clearly designed not to flick through the screens quickly when swiping the touch screen.

Either way it doesn't seem an issue to me. I will use the buttons during rides/runs and touch screen elsewhere. Perfect combination of both.

Providing the GPS and altitude recordings are accurate there is no other watch like this on the market.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## anto1980

This is the reason because Suunto is delayind the shipments! Sw bugs to solve...


----------



## anto1980

This is the reason because Suunto is delayind the shipments! Sw bugs to solve...



PiousInquisitor said:


> Jaka83 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks dcrainmaker!
> 
> Could you please show what the options for customizing the sports modes in movescount are. Specifically I would like to see the hiking/trekking/mountaineering sport modes defaults and custom options. If it's not too much to ask.
> Thanks again, it's a good way for us mere mortals to get a feel of the watch before shelling out a CrapTon of money.
> 
> 
> 
> After seeing the video you're still interested in the watch?
> 
> What about the lag? Horrible touch navigation? Inconsistent UI?
> 
> In my opinion a magical color display isn't worth the above mentioned flaws.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## gimegime

anto1980 said:


> This is the reason because Suunto is delayind the shipments! Sw bugs to solve...


Assume you didn't actually watch the vid? I am sure there is some software bugs but haven't any yet

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gimegime

* Haven't seen any yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## anto1980

???


gimegime said:


> anto1980 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is the reason because Suunto is delayind the shipments! Sw bugs to solve...
> 
> 
> 
> Assume you didn't actually watch the vid? I am sure there is some software bugs but haven't any yet
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## gimegime

anto1980 said:


> ???


Where are these bugs that you claim are delaying the release?

I have seen a couple of vids now showing the UI, with DCRs the longest, and the worst I have seen is that the touch screen swipes more slowly than via the push button. That's not a bug and certainly nothing that would delay release.

There may be a bug there somewhere but nothing to indicate that in DCRs vid and my experience with Suunto has been bug free on the UI and I am hoping it remains the same. Certainly nothing in comparison to Garmin.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rdm01

PiousInquisitor said:


> After seeing the video you're still interested in the watch?
> 
> What about the lag? Horrible touch navigation? Inconsistent UI?
> 
> In my opinion a magical color display isn't worth the above mentioned flaws.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Yes, after seeing the video I'm more interested ;-)

Lag is pretty normal in that kind of device (that's not an iPhone or a smartwatch with 24h battery life). IMO most of the "horrible touch navigation" is because Ray tried to do it as he was an applewatch. Inconsistent UI??? seriously?

I'm agree with you a color I'd prefer a B&W-non-touch-HDPI display instead that one ;-)


----------



## gimegime

rdm01 said:


> Yes, after seeing the video I'm more interested ;-)
> 
> Lag is pretty normal in that kind of device (that's not an iPhone or a smartwatch with 24h battery life). IMO most of the "horrible touch navigation" is because Ray tried to do it as he was an applewatch. Inconsistent UI??? seriously?
> 
> I'm agree with you a color I'd prefer a B&W-non-touch-HDPI display instead that one ;-)


The lag on the touch/swipe is definitely there in comparison to the push button. At worst it might make me want to use the buttons more.

Otherwise I don't know of any other serious GPS watch I would compare it to. As in is that actually slow or fast as to what is to be expected.

I haven't checked out the Fitbit Blaze or the newer version of the Garmin Vivoactive but neither are serious Multisport watches. Maybe the Samsung gear comes close but is more your smart watch than a Multisport.

The older Version of the Vivoactive I have played with and it isn't a patch on what I have seen on the Spaartan. Was hoping the new Polar M600 may be competition but that is more of a Vivoactive competitor.

The Spaartan is really in its own class at the moment as far as a touch screen Multisport watch

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## XCJagge

To swipe in Spartan Ultra you better swipe right from the edge. If you start your swipe act from too center it does not get recognized as a swipe. I guess that is to make it possible to both swipe to navigate away from the screen but also swipe within a screen, like panning a map. It is a lot like the swipe in Meego Harmattan. I think haven't missed a swipe after figuring that out (easy for me as an ex Meego-Harmattan user). I think it also may make unintentional swipes less likely to happen.

Tapping is more inconsistent. In some screens you can select by tapping, and some you don't. Like you can select activity type by tapping, but in logbook you cant tap past workouts or 'back', you need to swipe or push button.

Those two issues may make it feel like screen is not responsive at first, but it is just fine when you get used to it, or at least some/most may feel it is just fine. Some things aren't just implemented (yet I guess) and that may make it look confusing.


----------



## j--l

^ How much can customize the activity screen layouts? Like having two/three rows of data with bigger font size? The main problem I have with Ambit is the miniscular top/bottom rows of the activity display.

Lähetetty minun SM-G900F laitteesta Tapatalkilla


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## Simurgh

Are there any photos of Suunto Ultra Sport? They should start shipping them beginning of September, but I haven't seen a single photo out there..


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## rdm01

Simurgh said:


> Are there any photos of Suunto Ultra Sport? They should start shipping them beginning of September, but I haven't seen a single photo out there..


Take a look here ;-)


----------



## PiousInquisitor

gimegime said:


> Did you watch it until the end? Right near the end of the vid you get a good comparison between pressing the buttons and swiping, and can see that there is no lag by pressing the buttons. It's clearly designed not to flick through the screens quickly when swiping the touch screen.
> 
> Either way it doesn't seem an issue to me. I will use the buttons during rides/runs and touch screen elsewhere. Perfect combination of both.
> 
> Providing the GPS and altitude recordings are accurate there is no other watch like this on the market.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why have a touchscreen if it's so crappy? Just to say it has a touchscreen? That's a fantastic reason... NOT!

I want to see DC try and fiddle with the screen while wearing gloves. That ought to be entertaining.

I'm all for more accurate recordings but not at the expense of a crappy experience getting there.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## PiousInquisitor

rdm01 said:


> Yes, after seeing the video I'm more interested ;-)
> 
> Lag is pretty normal in that kind of device (that's not an iPhone or a smartwatch with 24h battery life). IMO most of the "horrible touch navigation" is because Ray tried to do it as he was an applewatch. Inconsistent UI??? seriously?
> 
> I'm agree with you a color I'd prefer a B&W-non-touch-HDPI display instead that one ;-)


Yes inconsistent UI. Sometimes there was a back menu option, sometimes not. Sometimes there were navigation indicators by the buttons, sometimes not.

If it were button navigation only, 5 buttons like a typical Suunto GPS watch, it would be much more appealing.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

PiousInquisitor said:


> Why have a touchscreen if it's so crappy? Just to say it has a touchscreen? That's a fantastic reason... NOT!
> 
> I want to see DC try and fiddle with the screen while wearing gloves. That ought to be entertaining.
> 
> I'm all for more accurate recordings but not at the expense of a crappy experience getting there.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Ha why would anyone use gloves on the touchscreen when the buttons are there. So you don't like touchscreens. That's your problem champ. Just don't get the watch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Simurgh

Amazing! Thank you so much, you are a very kind man.


----------



## PiousInquisitor

gimegime said:


> Ha why would anyone use gloves on the touchscreen when the buttons are there. So you don't like touchscreens. That's your problem champ. Just don't get the watch.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Didn't you watch the video? You have to use the touchscreen in some instances. Inconsistent UI. Remember?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## martowl

PiousInquisitor said:


> Didn't you watch the video? You have to use the touchscreen in some instances. Inconsistent UI. Remember?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Wow, one 15 min video and the "war" is started. How can you or anyone else conclude that you are certain of functionality without the watch in your hands? Or at least a full review, which takes time. From my point of view it appeared that you could use either buttons or screen swipes/touch for just about everything. At any rate, I preordered and will test for what I need. If I don't like it, I will send it back before the 30 days are up.

Agreed it is expensive but after all....it is just a training/recording device.


----------



## XCJagge

Long presses are missed in that video. Long press of middle button is 'back'. So you can go forward and back with same button and avoid using touch screen. And long press on screen at home/time screen dispalys a shortcut menu to settings/customize, I did not spot that in the video either.


----------



## rdm01

XCJagge said:


> Long presses are missed in that video. Long press of middle button is 'back'. So you can go forward and back with same button and avoid using touch screen. And long press on screen at home/time screen dispalys a shortcut menu to settings/customize, I did not spot that in the video either.


My thoughts are I'm only going to use touchscreen during an activity when road biking. I usually put my watches on the mount for the handlebars.

deporteporvida.com


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## gijom

XCJagge said:


> Long presses are missed in that video. Long press of middle button is 'back'. So you can go forward and back with same button and avoid using touch screen. And long press on screen at home/time screen dispalys a shortcut menu to settings/customize, I did not spot that in the video either.


DCR should read the manual after all 
Does that mean we can do EVERYTHING without the touch screen? Could it be deactivated?
I agree with what some of you also noticed: The UI is not consistent but not a deal breaker for me.
Thanks for the Spartan Sport piks too.
There are certainly less features than on my current 735XT but might trade after seeing the GPS accuracy results.

[My 735XT created an invalid swim workout yesterday. Not too happy with that as I worked hard on setting some PRs and lost data...]


----------



## rdm01

gijom said:


> DCR should read the manual after all
> Does that mean we can do EVERYTHING without the touch screen? Could it be deactivated?
> I agree with what some of you also noticed: The UI is not consistent but not a deal breaker for me.
> Thanks for the Spartan Sport piks too.
> There are certainly less features than on my current 735XT but might trade after seeing the GPS accuracy results.
> 
> [My 735XT created an invalid swim workout yesterday. Not too happy with that as I worked hard on setting some PRs and lost data...]


Garmin still launching devices in beta mode. Happened in all of the last devices with no exceptions (well the FR920XT was launched in non beta state). I really hope SSU goes fairly well from the first firmware...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## gijom

rdm01 said:


> Garmin still launching devices in beta mode. Happened in all of the last devices with no exceptions (well the FR920XT was launched in non beta state). I really hope SSU goes fairly well from the first firmware...
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Yes I owned an Ambit 3 Vertical prior to the 735XT and know what to expect.
It may seem secondary for some but I like a good looking watch and I cannot really get lo like the looks of the 735XT. In particular I always end up using the default watch face as noone really created one that fits my needs on ConnectIQ [And I did not find motivation to learn MonkeyC to create my own...]. Also the way courses are handled in Garmin is close to a nightmare.
But the features are there: I get a nice screen with 8+ fields [I have good eyes I guess ] and once properly set up it is amazing to get navigation instructions and be able to compare yourself to a previous run/ride. The way swims are handled is also very nice with a "Rest screen" which makes things far superior to what I got on the Vertical.
It also certainly help to have a full plastic watch: The GPS is pretty impressive, much more than the Vertical. I guess this has to do to the fact plastic does not block the EM waves too much...

So, well, let's see what the Spartan Sport can do for me in a full review. So far no blocking point but I am getting more and more demanding now that I own a well-featured Garmin.


----------



## Quotron

oops


----------



## TwiceNightly

Does anyone know if with this watch you can mark a position with GPS and navigate back to it later?

For example on holiday mark your hotel with GPS and then you can find it later.

Thanks!


----------



## gimegime

PiousInquisitor said:


> Didn't you watch the video? You have to use the touchscreen in some instances. Inconsistent UI. Remember?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


No you don't. I suggest you actually watch before commenting again.

[edit] Then there is the back button of course.....but carry on


----------



## gimegime

rdm01 said:


> My thoughts are I'm only going to use touchscreen during an activity when road biking. I usually put my watches on the mount for the handlebars.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I was thinking for notifications and day to day use, but I would probably use the buttons during activities. Guess its all down to your preference. I love all the focus on the touch screen, like thats the only reason you would buy the watch.


----------



## gimegime

XCJagge said:


> Long presses are missed in that video. Long press of middle button is 'back'. So you can go forward and back with same button and avoid using touch screen. And long press on screen at home/time screen dispalys a shortcut menu to settings/customize, I did not spot that in the video either.


It looked like DCR literally pulled the watch from the box, went for a ride and shot that vid. I for one appreciate seeing 15 mins of use and was not expecting an in-depth review.

XCJagge as you seem actually have your hands on this watch and talking from actual experience, what are your thoughts?


----------



## gimegime

Vid with gloves and wet screen


----------



## PiousInquisitor

gimegime said:


> No you don't. I suggest you actually watch before commenting again.
> 
> [edit] Then there is the back button of course.....but carry on


I watched it princess. That's why I've been commenting. Again, inconsistent UI. I've already pointed out why. If you need a refresher, read back a few posts.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

PiousInquisitor said:


> I watched it princess. That's why I've been commenting. Again, inconsistent UI. I've already pointed out why. If you need a refresher, read back a few posts.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Now now Brent thats not very nice is it



PiuosInquisitor said:


> _You have to use the touchscreen in some instances._


Which is, of course, wrong. You clearly have never touched this watch yet post such strong beliefs off the back of a 15 min vid. In other words you have zero insight to add. Thankfully I can utilise the ignore feature of this forum just as I can your childish insults.


----------



## edit0r

@gimegime, @PiuosInquisitor, guys, please... let's not fight over this a few pages. Everyone made his point, shared his thoughts now let's move on..... 
Thank you !


----------



## Tabinho

gimegime said:


> Vid with gloves and wet screen


Surely he's touching the buttons remotely...


----------



## Ivo P

Tabinho said:


> Surely he's touching the buttons remotely...


Yess,, yes, you saw it too, right.

This, this, this guy is using telekinesis - you can sense it if you are strong with the force. You see the screen changes before he touches it 

This video busts all those assuming the screen is not an added benefit as it will not work in moist environment, lag etc.

Now we need a video to compare gps fix and data, hope for the sake of Suunto that they have not sacrificed the gps accuracy but if it is ok, I just dont know what the garmin fan boys will summon to trash here on.


----------



## TwiceNightly

Hi guys,

Sorry to ask this again but my question might have got lost amongst all the fighting. Does anyone know if you can mark a position with GPS and navigate back to it?

Thanks!


----------



## Ivo P

TwiceNightly said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Sorry to ask this again but my question might have got lost amongst all the fighting. Does anyone know if you can mark a position with GPS and navigate back to it?
> 
> Thanks!


Hi, yes you can. 
Though this is a feature available since the first Ambit. You just save the point in the watch and you can go there anytime in the future, until you delete it.

Though if you want to walk back specific path with its curves that is different story.


----------



## orks

TwiceNightly said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Sorry to ask this again but my question might have got lost amongst all the fighting. Does anyone know if you can mark a position with GPS and navigate back to it?
> 
> Thanks!


Answer from Suunto team you could be interested in,also:

Dear Customer, 
Sorry for the late reply.

We have checked the specification of Spartan Ultra.
At launch, it has breadcrumb, but track back/ find back options might be added later.

No storm alarm at this point either.
​ There will be firmware update in the future, other features might be added.
Sincerely, Suunto Customer Support Team


----------



## martowl

orks said:


> Answer from Suunto team you could be interested in,also:
> 
> Dear Customer,
> Sorry for the late reply.
> 
> We have checked the specification of Spartan Ultra.
> At launch, it has breadcrumb, but track back/ find back options might be added later.
> 
> No storm alarm at this point either.
> ​ There will be firmware update in the future, other features might be added.
> Sincerely, Suunto Customer Support Team


Now that is quite disappointing......


----------



## WEM

martowl said:


> Now that is quite disappointing......


The breadcrumb is IMHO sufficient for navigating back - perhaps better than the "old" trackback function.

The question of saving a location as POI and navigating to the POI is still open. But I think I've read somewhere that the POI function is not part of the first software - but comes later.

The topic with missing barometer profile / weather indicator is disappointing. But I must say, weather alarm was not really for me: most alarms where wrong - and when really needed there was no alarm... a trend graph would be sufficient for me. But I don't see it also in the current informations...


----------



## rdm01

WEM said:


> The breadcrumb is IMHO sufficient for navigating back - perhaps better than the "old" trackback function.
> 
> The question of saving a location as POI and navigating to the POI is still open. But I think I've read somewhere that the POI function is not part of the first software - but comes later.
> 
> The topic with missing barometer profile / weather indicator is disappointing. But I must say, weather alarm was not really for me: most alarms where wrong - and when really needed there was no alarm... a trend graph would be sufficient for me. But I don't see it also in the current informations...


I think exactly the same about trackback vs breadcrumbs

deporteporvida.com


----------



## dcrainmaker

martowl said:


> Now that is quite disappointing......


I think in general the advice will be to wait until September. In addition, one should no longer assume that because a feature was in the Ambit series, that it's available today in the Spartan. Which is fine, as long as the company is clear with it (like above). Based on some conversations today*, I've decided to likely delay my review until September, as there are too many pieces that are missing still that I don't really want to re-do an entire in-depth review in October after doing one in August. Thus, it's likely I'll keep publishing random YouTube videos on different topics in the meantime. I shot a detailed shower/glove one today, and a GPS accuracy & brightness of screen one from yesterday, both I'll upload later today.

*The specific topic was around changing/configuring data fields, which you cannot do until September (their current goal for implementation). You may have seen me stumble slightly in my video showing the Movescount site, when I tried to click a few times on the sport profile to tweak and it didn't work. That triggered me checking with the Suunto folks if I just was missing the obvious or if it was a browser issue. Turns out, it's September.

In general - I'm OK with companies having gaps, as long as those gaps are identified and a clear and viable timeline is present. Suunto does have one of the best records in the industry in terms of hitting their dates (within a few days or a week or two), compared to others (i.e. Polar) often missing planned firmware updates by months or even years.


----------



## Larry115

Thank You DCR...I always appreciate your information and effort.


----------



## Jaka83

I have a strange feeling we will see a couple of versions of this watch each missing a couple of key features and being very similar in general, so you can't settle for just one and are always missing some key features (no universal watch) - that seems the modern way for companies to make more money. 

Let's hope I'm wrong. The watch looks great and I hope Suunto will deliver on the FW and SW side, otherwise I'll be rocking my Ambit 1 for at least another year or so.


----------



## martowl

dcrainmaker said:


> I think in general the advice will be to wait until September. In addition, one should no longer assume that because a feature was in the Ambit series, that it's available today in the Spartan. Which is fine, as long as the company is clear with it (like above). Based on some conversations today*, I've decided to likely delay my review until September, as there are too many pieces that are missing still that I don't really want to re-do an entire in-depth review in October after doing one in August. Thus, it's likely I'll keep publishing random YouTube videos on different topics in the meantime. I shot a detailed shower/glove one today, and a GPS accuracy & brightness of screen one from yesterday, both I'll upload later today.
> 
> *The specific topic was around changing/configuring data fields, which you cannot do until September (their current goal for implementation). You may have seen me stumble slightly in my video showing the Movescount site, when I tried to click a few times on the sport profile to tweak and it didn't work. That triggered me checking with the Suunto folks if I just was missing the obvious or if it was a browser issue. Turns out, it's September.
> 
> In general - I'm OK with companies having gaps, as long as those gaps are identified and a clear and viable timeline is present. Suunto does have one of the best records in the industry in terms of hitting their dates (within a few days or a week or two), compared to others (i.e. Polar) often missing planned firmware updates by months or even years.


Really appreciate this Ray....your efforts are great, highly appreciated and I have long followed your site. I pre-ordered a unit and will do my own subpar tests. That coupled with your review will be enough to convince me whether to keep the Spartan Ultra or not. The Ambit3 Peak is great, I am interested in a more usable screen and better Navigation. I run ultra marathons and do a lot of mountain running. I use the Nav features on the Ambit extensively.

Thanks again!


----------



## martowl

rdm01 said:


> I think exactly the same about trackback vs breadcrumbs
> 
> deporteporvida.com


OK, between you and WEM you convinced me. I don't use trackback often, only when I really need it......


----------



## gousias

Jaka83 said:


> I have a strange feeling we will see a couple of versions of this watch each missing a couple of key features and being very similar in general, so you can't settle for just one and are always missing some key features (no universal watch) - that seems the modern way for companies to make more money.
> 
> Let's hope I'm wrong. The watch looks great and I hope Suunto will deliver on the FW and SW side, otherwise I'll be rocking my Ambit 1 for at least another year or so.


The same thought for me too!


----------



## PTBC

gousias said:


> The same thought for me too!


I was looking at the Traverse before the spartan was announced and did find it odd that it had no swimming mode for sports, I understand trying to differentiate models for different markets to maximise appeal, but that just seemed removing stuff for the sake of it


----------



## edit0r

I understood a long time ago that the watch is not ready.... and I am fine with that as long as the features that it has at launch are bug free.
I would also Suunto to release a schedule on the firmware updates and features that will be implemented... like Polar had on the V800.
I would like to know where this watch is heading, what the features will it have... Having these information will help anyone decide if the watch suits their needs.

What I would really like to know is the GPS performance .... Can you please help us Ray? (even if you will not release a review)

Or maybe share a few runs Ray and let us decide 

Thank you !


----------



## watchvids

edit0r said:


> I would also Suunto to release a schedule on the firmware updates and features that will be implemented... like Polar had on the V800.


Suunto has had that with all the Ambit models, so I'm pretty sure they will have that info with the Spartan also


----------



## dcrainmaker

edit0r said:


> What I would really like to know is the GPS performance .... Can you please help us Ray? (even if you will not release a review)
> 
> Or maybe share a few runs Ray and let us decide
> 
> Thank you !


I'll be doing both. Just finishing final edits on running performance/accuracy video, and should be up no later than morning. I'll include within that the GPS tracks to analyze, like other GPS accuracy tests I do (you'll be able to use my online tool to dig into them, and/or download them). I'll probably also add in my bike ride tonight to the pile to look at.


----------



## Rem_

On gps accuracy , looking at latest moves from RunningSolidaire's profile - Member at Movescount.com , it seems on par with ambit3 peak , though one was so so.

another interesting piece is ,on looking at what seems to be interval mode, ( 2 * 5 * 600 ) , the laps were not auto but entered manually ( the 600m lap are never exactly 600m ... So not what offered ambit since v1.


----------



## MoLu

Without having too much experience in comparing GPS tracks, is that really what "on par" looks like?
One of the tracks, from his trail run on 28.07.2016, is available from both Ambit3 Peak and SSU, and there's quite a few spots where the Peak looks a lot more accurate, especially at spots where he apparently turned around and went back the same path. To me it looks more like the tracks that I got from the Fenix 3 when I tested it at some point...


----------



## Quotron

MoLu said:


> Without having too much experience in comparing GPS tracks, is that really what "on par" looks like?
> One of the tracks, from his trail run on 28.07.2016, is available from both Ambit3 Peak and SSU, and there's quite a few spots where the Peak looks a lot more accurate, especially at spots where he apparently turned around and went back the same path. To me it looks more like the tracks that I got from the Fenix 3 when I tested it at some point...


Well, it's generally best to use the satellite view instead of the terrain or openmap, but in the moves you're talking about it's tough to see where the trail is as it appears to be under canopy.

Trail Run - A3P
Trail Run - SU

From those tracks the Spartan Ultra _seems_ smoother but it's just one run so it's hard to say.

Also, he has 2 openwater swims, the one with the A3P was mislabeled as a trail run, but that shouldn't matter as the track rates should (at least from stock) be the same, you can see them here

OWS - A3P
OWS - SU

For the OWS, the SU is obviously a cleaner track, which explains the distance discrepancy (~490 yards). Given that it's a swim there are more factors that could have affected the performance of one watch



Rem_ said:


> another interesting piece is ,on looking at what seems to be interval mode, ( 2 * 5 * 600 ) , the laps were not auto but entered manually ( the 600m lap are never exactly 600m ... So not what offered ambit since v1.


Assuming we're talking about this move, you're right, it looks like the autolaps were just set at 1km and not for 600m. BUt there's no way to know if that was purposeful (i.e. user prefers to control laps for speedwork) or an issue with the watch.


----------



## Rem_

Right , good point. There is (at least)one turn around where peak is spot on and SSU aside. But overal is ok . ( was not able to extract move to compare side by side.


----------



## MoLu

Quotron said:


> Well, it's generally best to use the satellite view instead of the terrain or openmap, but in the moves you're talking about it's tough to see where the trail is as it appears to be under canopy.


Indeed the trail is very hard to identify over most of the course and therefore hard to judge, but I was thinking for example about that little side track at 0.7-1.1 km, where it in my eyes looks like he first followed the big trail, then realized he would have had to turn left a few meters before immediately turning right again. That's a spot where I would hope for a perfect overlap when he's backtracking, but on the way to the turnaround point it looks like he's running next to the road, while it's a perfectly aligned track right on the track on the way back (you will need to zoom in a bit to see what I mean). For the A3P the tracks are much closer to each other.

Also for the first/last 100m the match between the two paths is much nicer for the A3P.

While I'm of course waiting for more comparisons and proper reviews and the first firmware updates, my first impression is (unfortunately) that it is pretty much on par with other bezel-antenna under a metal bezel, but maybe not with plastic watches or the Ambit.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Looks quite good thus far. It will be really interesting to see if the Spartan consistently performs well on the GPS accuracy front, proving that good GPS results are indeed possible with an antenna that's in the actual bezel of the watch. 
If so, the question is why was this not the case with Ambit 3 Vertical and Traverse??


----------



## dcrainmaker

Ok...so, here's some new stuff to consume:

Touchscreen while wet & with gloves video: 



GPS Instant Pace/Responsiveness/Outdoor Visibility/GPS Track Analysis Video: 




And, for those interesting in digging around and doing their own analysis on GPS tracks:

Run (shown in video): https://analyze.dcrainmaker.com/#/public/7f3045b0-3437-48e9-7ef4-de10e2d53f29
Ride (not in video, just tonight): https://analyze.dcrainmaker.com/#/public/fa801dc4-619c-496c-541b-3babb5035978

Obviously, these are merely two activities, and my GPS accuracy section on most reviews is between 10-20 activities or more, so...take it with whatever grain of salt you want. I'll eventually add a table to my existing Spartan placeholder post which I'll update after each ride/run showing comparison data, probably in the next day or two. But for now I'll post here.

Enjoy!


----------



## bruceames

Quotron said:


> Well, it's generally best to use the satellite view instead of the terrain or openmap, but in the moves you're talking about it's tough to see where the trail is as it appears to be under canopy.
> 
> Trail Run - A3P
> Trail Run - SU
> 
> From those tracks the Spartan Ultra _seems_ smoother but it's just one run so it's hard to say.


The A3P track is much better. Look at the top and top right. On the top section, you can see that he went up and turned around on trail. There is quite a bit of separation on the SU track.

On the top right, there is an out-back section, with very little separation on the A3P. The SU not only has greater separation, but the tracks cross over each other several times.


----------



## gimegime

dcrainmaker said:


> Ok...so, here's some new stuff to consume:
> 
> Touchscreen while wet & with gloves video:
> 
> 
> 
> GPS Instant Pace/Responsiveness/Outdoor Visibility/GPS Track Analysis Video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, for those interesting in digging around and doing their own analysis on GPS tracks:
> 
> Run (shown in video): https://analyze.dcrainmaker.com/#/public/7f3045b0-3437-48e9-7ef4-de10e2d53f29
> Ride (not in video, just tonight): https://analyze.dcrainmaker.com/#/public/fa801dc4-619c-496c-541b-3babb5035978
> 
> Obviously, these are merely two activities, and my GPS accuracy section on most reviews is between 10-20 activities or more, so...take it with whatever grain of salt you want. I'll eventually add a table to my existing Spartan placeholder post which I'll update after each ride/run showing comparison data, probably in the next day or two. But for now I'll post here.
> 
> Enjoy!


These are great Ray. On your GPS vid, which watch do you think was closer to the overall distance? Looking at all your tracks you can see they all aren't perfect but trying to get a feel for which was smoother overall.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johan6504

Would be nice to see how the SSU compares to the best. In my experience during trail running the TomTom runner and the V800 has given me by far the best result.


----------



## WEM

Hey Ray,

Thx for sharing. Is it possibe to disable touch completely? In a lot of cases I'll wear gloves or it will be wet... (touring, mountaineering, ice climbing). 

The fakt, that customization of sport modes doesn't work, it's a shock... but at least there seams a timeline to complete functionality. I have strange feelings when Suunto says "might be added": this indicates for me more somthing like maybe in the spartan two...
but from current point of view it seems that no essential function is missing for me - or at least it is announced to be implemented.

In general I'm not fine with this strategy: from my expirience it's a bad idea to provide a product with less functionality with a higher price.
Normally I would provide a product with the slogan: this product can do everything the old does, maybe in another way, and further more. that would lead people to switch fastly to the new.

WEM

Gesendet von meinem SM-T815 mit Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

Nah Ambit Peak by far and away gives the best results


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

Fellrnr has some good data to support that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dcrainmaker

WEM said:


> Hey Ray,
> 
> Thx for sharing. Is it possibe to disable touch completely? In a lot of cases I'll wear gloves or it will be wet... (touring, mountaineering, ice climbing).


I'm not aware of any obvious method to turn off the touch screen, but perhaps there's some way I don't see in the menus.


----------



## XCJagge

I just did short classic style roller skiing session with Ultra and A3 Peak. 








What it comes to track quality the main factor is always how antenna is positioned and where it is pointing at. Here I used little padding to make Spartan screen/antenna shoot straight up most of the time (A3 peak did that without tricks for the angle between scren and antenna bulge). What happend is track offset to watch hand side disappeared and track looks pretty good. It may even look better than Peak's track, but that is just luck and coincidence, I believe on average Peak still records slightly more consistently than current "padded" Ultra for the larger antenna. Untill glonass gets enabled in ultra that is, then it will become superior to Peak (but during those occasional glonass hickups peak will win glonass enabled ultra of course). Or this is how I think it will go. How will ultra perfor without padding but with glonass compared to Peak? Difficult to say. Anyway, suunto should make Ultra record more points, it is easily accurate enough for the A3 peak style lamost every second style recording especially with such padding.

Here biggest disparency between out and back tracks for Su was +-7 meters (close turning point) and for Peak +-9 meters (in forest after golf course)


----------



## bruceames

XCJagge said:


> What it comes to track quality the main factor is always how antenna is positioned and where it is pointing at. Here I used little padding to make Spartan screen/antenna shoot straight up most of the time (A3 peak did that without tricks for the angle between scren and antenna bulge).


I had never thought of that. The bezel antenna is at a disadvantage from the start because of it's orientation it is never pointing up in the sky (while running and for most sports anyway), while the patch antenna is in a much better position. So basically the bezel antenna will never give as good a track until such a time that the chip is superior enough to compensate for the poorer orientatation. Do you really think a bezel antenna will give just as good a reception as the A3P when the orientation factor is removed from the equation?


----------



## Jaka83

bruceames said:


> I had never thought of that. The bezel antenna is at a disadvantage from the start because of it's orientation it is never pointing up in the sky (while running and for most sports anyway), while the patch antenna is in a much better position. So basically the bezel antenna will never give as good a track until such a time that the chip is superior enough to compensate for the poorer orientatation. Do you really think a bezel antenna will give just as good a reception as the A3P when the orientation factor is removed from the equation?


It depends on what kind of antenna Suunto uses in the SU. I would take it the bezel antenna is not directional, but rather omni. Just saying, that they probably learned from the bad experience with Vertical and Traverse. For a high-end watch like this it would be a disaster if it didn't perform at least on par with the A3P.


----------



## bruceames

Jaka83 said:


> It depends on what kind of antenna Suunto uses in the SU. *I would take it the bezel antenna is not directional, but rather omni*. Just saying, that they probably learned from the bad experience with Vertical and Traverse. For a high-end watch like this it would be a disaster if it didn't perform at least on par with the A3P.


That's what Suunto said about the X9, and it had horrible reception. It would seem with a multi-directional antenna that at best you are getting "diluted" reception, since only some of the antenna would be facing the sky no matter how you orient it.


----------



## MiGRcz

Any video for mobile notifications? How do they work? Like on Fenix3 or Ambit3 joke?


----------



## shanecho

Definitely going to look at the Ultra Titanium. I'm on my second Suunto (Ambit3 Peak) and couldn't be happier with their products. The large case makes it a nice robust watch that exudes quality.

Suunto offers 10-15% off through Promotive. That helps take the bite off of the price tag!



breefmark said:


> Meet the all new *Suunto Spartan Ultra*, available July 2016!
> 
> Key Specs:
> 
> 
> 
> Colour touchscreen
> Glass: sapphire crystal
> Barometric altitude
> Battery life (GPS active): 20-200 h
> Weight: 73-77 g
> Strap material: Silicone
> Heart rate requires heart rate belt
> 
> Pricing:
> 
> 
> 
> Spartan Ultra: 649? (699? HR)
> Spartan Ultra Titanium: 749? (799? HR)
> 
> The watches were advertised in a print mailing by a German sports retailer. Their webshop already lists the Spartan Ultra as new but currently out of stock, but you need deep links for accessing the information. I would post the links but unfortunately I'm not allowed to due to forum restrictions for new members
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, attaching images seems to work, so here you go:*
> 
> Spartan Ultra black*
> [iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8216970&d=1464035703"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]
> *
> Spartan Ultra white *
> [iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8216986&d=1464035734"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]
> *
> Spartan Ultra Titanium black*
> [iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8216994&d=1464035747"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]
> 
> *Spartan Ultra Titanium grey*
> [iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8217002&d=1464035760"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]


----------



## costaxo

Don't bother with distance in the track using GPS. It's bound to loose accuracy and either overestimate or underestimate distance/pace (usually overestimate) no matter what. I just hope the lap button or however they implemented the use of lap registering works fine.. cause on ambit 3 it kind of sucks and it's not working all the time...

Edit: It seems like he's using a stryd? Right? If so, I guess right now SSU can't get HR readings from stryd just power?


----------



## costaxo

Rem_ said:


> On gps accuracy , looking at latest moves from RunningSolidaire's profile - Member at Movescount.com , it seems on par with ambit3 peak , though one was so so.
> 
> another interesting piece is ,on looking at what seems to be interval mode, ( 2 * 5 * 600 ) , the laps were not auto but entered manually ( the 600m lap are never exactly 600m ... So not what offered ambit since v1.


Don't bother with distance in the track using GPS. It's bound to loose accuracy and either overestimate or underestimate distance/pace (usually overestimate) no matter what. I just hope the lap button or however they implemented the use of lap registering works fine.. cause on ambit 3 it kind of sucks and it's not working all the time...

It seems like he's using a stryd? Right? If so, I guess right now SSU can't get HR readings from stryd just power?


----------



## gimegime

XCJagge said:


> I just did short classic style roller skiing session with Ultra and A3 Peak.
> View attachment 8976250
> 
> 
> What it comes to track quality the main factor is always how antenna is positioned and where it is pointing at. Here I used little padding to make Spartan screen/antenna shoot straight up most of the time (A3 peak did that without tricks for the angle between scren and antenna bulge). What happend is track offset to watch hand side disappeared and track looks pretty good. It may even look better than Peak's track, but that is just luck and coincidence, I believe on average Peak still records slightly more consistently than current "padded" Ultra for the larger antenna. Untill glonass gets enabled in ultra that is, then it will become superior to Peak (but during those occasional glonass hickups peak will win glonass enabled ultra of course). Or this is how I think it will go. How will ultra perfor without padding but with glonass compared to Peak? Difficult to say. Anyway, suunto should make Ultra record more points, it is easily accurate enough for the A3 peak style lamost every second style recording especially with such padding.
> 
> Here biggest disparency between out and back tracks for Su was +-7 meters (close turning point) and for Peak +-9 meters (in forest after golf course)


What was the distance recorded for both?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bruceames

XCJagge said:


> Anyway, suunto should make Ultra record more points, it is easily accurate enough for the A3 peak style lamost every second style recording especially with such padding.


How often was it recording points? Less often than the A3?


----------



## XCJagge

SSU 8.41 km and A3P 8.44 km 

A3P recorded maybe about 20% more points. SSU seems to have recorded every second some or most of the time, but sometimes there is less, like during the 3 min photo session it recorded less than 10 points. And one of the round turns looks a bit jagged compared to A3P track. I believe recording algorithm they use will change, but still I would prefer having an option for turning genuine every second recording on so I could record ridiculous stuff like mowing lawn, floorball, soccer or leave watch somewhere for hours to record plenty of points so I could average more correct coordinates or what ever.


----------



## Rem_

costaxo said:


> I just hope the lap button or however they implemented the use of lap registering works fine.. cause on ambit 3 it kind of sucks and it's not working all the time


I'm afraid they didn't implement anything about interval lap but manual.
User will have to press the button manually each time the watch bip or vibrate based on its planned workout ( here 2 * 5 * 600 ).
So we have a 700€ watch but it cannot auto lap for you 😂


----------



## gimegime

Rem_ said:


> I'm afraid they didn't implement anything about interval lap but manual.
> User will have to press the button manually each time the watch bip or vibrate based on its planned workout ( here 2 * 5 * 600 ).
> So we have a 700€ watch but it cannot auto lap for you


Your previous post on this you were looking at someone's track. Did Suunto someone who actually has the watch confirm this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

*or someone


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## costaxo

Rem_ said:


> I'm afraid they didn't implement anything about interval lap but manual.
> User will have to press the button manually each time the watch bip or vibrate based on its planned workout ( here 2 * 5 * 600 ).
> So we have a 700€ watch but it cannot auto lap for you 


I don't think this is true. There is apparently if I remember(?) right a sport mode for intervals. Perhaps you didn't understand my comment. Any/lap gps watch in the track it will overestimate the distance so whatever planned workout you want to do doesn't really work in the track you'll always do lesser distance from what you have planned.. Hence you have to hit the lap button manually at the given marks of the track to do it right. I just hope the way they implement the manual registering of laps will work unlike A3P where there is a lag when pressing the lap button and sometimes pressing the button it doesn't register a lap.


----------



## rdm01

I wonder why the hell Suunto haven't upload the SU owners manual yet! It's clear the features of the firmware 1.0 have been already defined...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## gimegime

rdm01 said:


> I wonder why the hell Suunto haven't upload the SU owners manual yet! It's clear the features of the firmware 1.0 have been already defined...
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Maybe that's your answer, that a firmware update is going to land before the 15th.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dcrainmaker

gimegime said:


> Your previous post on this you were looking at someone's track. Did Suunto someone who actually has the watch confirm this?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't see any method on Movescount online to create interval/custom workouts at this time (nor is there anything I see within the watch itself). I could be missing something, but I've clicked a fair bit. Given that person's track aren't exact numbers, I'd assume manual lappage (which to be fair, is how you should do track workouts with a GPS device...since...you know...the track is marked with what you're actually running).

As others have noted, it sounds like numerous items are planned for September. I expect that between now and the release on the 15th they'll mostly be focusing on bug-fixes. It's not a horrible list of bugs, but there are certainly a handful I stumble into here and there.


----------



## sloon

what color you are buying???
th


----------



## PTBC

dcrainmaker said:


> I don't see any method on Movescount online to create interval/custom workouts at this time (nor is there anything I see within the watch itself). I could be missing something, but I've clicked a fair bit. Given that person's track aren't exact numbers, I'd assume manual lappage (which to be fair, is how you should do track workouts with a GPS device...since...you know...the track is marked with what you're actually running).
> 
> As others have noted, it sounds like numerous items are planned for September. I expect that between now and the release on the 15th they'll mostly be focusing on bug-fixes. It's not a horrible list of bugs, but there are certainly a handful I stumble into here and there.


Hope that's not the case for pool swimming as manual laps kind of defeats the point of using a watch (maybe I'll have to try the 150 yard pool if that's the case), is there any list from Suunto of what's expected for firmware updates in terms of functionality by the 15th and for the September update that's been mentioned


----------



## Rem_

Thx Ray. I thought this guy(runningsolidaire) was using planned workout as he used specific activity type i've never seen on ambit "track & field".
seems I was wrong and this exercise was purely manual. 
hope Suunto will provide true interval training mode in September, including auto interval lap (as we do not do interval only on track


----------



## j--l

dcrainmaker said:


> I expect that between now and the release on the 15th they'll mostly be focusing on bug-fixes. It's not a horrible list of bugs, but there are certainly a handful I stumble into here and there.


At the present is there a possibility to pair more than one HR sensor? I.e. not needing to repair every time a different sensor is used.


----------



## dcrainmaker

Rem_ said:


> Thx Ray. I thought this guy(runningsolidaire) was using planned workout as he used specific activity type i've never seen on ambit "track & field".
> seems I was wrong and this exercise was purely manual.
> hope Suunto will provide true interval training mode in September, including auto interval lap (as we do not do interval only on track


It's (Track & Field) essentially just a generic activity profile. You can save 30 of them, and I'm guessing there's well above that many in the list (too long to write/copy down). You can see in the expanded out activity/sport profiles, there's no options to change at this time.

Here's what the watch settings page looks like with everything expanded out on it, as of Aug 8th, 2016. Note, this will change (a lot between now and Sept). For example, you can't change data fields today (thus, I can't show you that).


----------



## dcrainmaker

j--l said:


> At the present is there a possibility to pair more than one HR sensor? I.e. not needing to repair every time a different sensor is used.


I just tried, it appears to wipe out the previous sensor of that type each time you pair a new one. So I had one HR strap paired, then I went to pair a totally different one. No luck, deleted the other one (or if it did save them both, then it was hidden from view in the Paired Sensors list). Then tried the same with bike sensors, same result.


----------



## IronP

Hello guys,
this is my first post here....its a long time that i am looking for a good forum and it seems that i found it!
Fyi guys, i just checked again in the suunto website about the SSU and something is different there! The delivery start point of "15th of august" is gone and now its just "august 2016"!
Its looking like a new delay....!?
cheers..


----------



## IronP

Hello guys....perhaps its a false alarm. Checking the suunto website, the "august 2016" is to be found only if you go to the "global location", if you choose a country, the "15th of August" is still there....sorry for that!


----------



## gimegime

dcrainmaker said:


> It's (Track & Field) essentially just a generic activity profile. You can save 30 of them, and I'm guessing there's well above that many in the list (too long to write/copy down). You can see in the expanded out activity/sport profiles, there's no options to change at this time.
> 
> Here's what the watch settings page looks like with everything expanded out on it, as of Aug 8th, 2016. Note, this will change (a lot between now and Sept). For example, you can't change data fields today (thus, I can't show you that).


Ray I do recall you posting earlier, but just to confirm that you can't edit those sports modes at present? I don't see any edit option against the sports modes in your screen shot so am assuming that to be the case. Both the auto-lap and interval timer are accessed through the advanced settings within the sports modes on my Ambit, which maybe I have never noticed but they now seem more adjustable since the latest version of movescount.

Are you able to create new activities yet from that screen? The add button is there so am assuming you can. If you do that you should be able to get to the advanced settings and then be able to see what is there for the SSU.

Thanks for all the feedback by the way.


----------



## dcrainmaker

gimegime said:


> Ray I do recall you posting earlier, but just to confirm that you can't edit those sports modes at present? I don't see any edit option against the sports modes in your screen shot so am assuming that to be the case. Both the auto-lap and interval timer are accessed through the advanced settings within the sports modes on my Ambit, which maybe I have never noticed but they now seem more adjustable since the latest version of movescount.
> 
> Are you able to create new activities yet from that screen? The add button is there so am assuming you can. If you do that you should be able to get to the advanced settings and then be able to see what is there for the SSU.
> 
> Thanks for all the feedback by the way.


Nah, when you click the add sport button, it just adds another sport identical to the ones in the picture (with default data pages and a new name). Neither the new sport or the existing sports can be customized in any manner at this point (in theory coming in September). So there aren't any 'Advanced Settings' (or any settings at all) at this time on a per sport basis. The only option is to enable/disable that sport on the watch.


----------



## gimegime

dcrainmaker said:


> Nah, when you click the add sport button, it just adds another sport identical to the ones in the picture (with default data pages and a new name). Neither the new sport or the existing sports can be customized in any manner at this point (in theory coming in September). So there aren't any 'Advanced Settings' (or any settings at all) at this time on a per sport basis. The only option is to enable/disable that sport on the watch.


Ahh ok, thanks for checking. It seems like the September firmware/movescount upgrade will tell us quite a bit as to what the end functionality of the watch will be


----------



## Ingo

Anybody pounding the table yet because the SSU won't have 'route altitude profile on watch' out of the box? That will apparently remain exclusive to the Ambit Vertical. How can they call this thing 'ultra' when most ultras are all about the vertical?? That alone is killing the SSU for me. Pretty disappointed by these exclusive functions spread across their lesser variants.


----------



## Hecke

gimegime said:


> Both the auto-lap and interval timer are accessed through the advanced settings within the sports modes on my Ambit, which maybe I have never noticed but they now seem more adjustable since the latest version of movescount.


I used the autolaps and the interval timer on my Ambit 2S quite a lot and can tell that there has been no change in that settings in the last two years.


----------



## Hecke

Ingo said:


> when most ultras are all about the vertical??


You are missing a lot of the fun if you restrict yourself to mountain races. There is a lot going on in the flat (which is of course relative).

In ten days I will be circling a 1k loop for a 24h. On a sports ground. In order to make full use of my watch, I wish some more sophisticated features. For example a location based autolap. Set it to the starting mat and have the watch record a lap whenever you enter a 10m radius around it. I'd even code it myself if I could get access to the raw GPS data in my apps. Darn, I had big hopes for the customizability of the Spartan ultra in that respect.


----------



## Ingo

Hecke said:


> You are missing a lot of the fun if you restrict yourself to mountain races. There is a lot going on in the flat (which is of course relative).
> 
> In ten days I will be circling a 1k loop for a 24h. On a sports ground. In order to make full use of my watch, I wish some more sophisticated features. For example a location based autolap. Set it to the starting mat and have the watch record a lap whenever you enter a 10m radius around it. I'd even code it myself if I could get access to the raw GPS data in my apps. Darn, I had big hopes for the customizability of the Spartan ultra in that respect.


You could probably hack your problem with a Strava Live segments / Garmin combo but I believe that still requires you to carry your smart phone which isn't really ideal in a 24h race. But I am sure Suunto will roll out a Spartan Horizontal with your above mentioned functionality at some point so stay tuned. And of course that function will be exclusive to the 'Horizontal' - oh wait, it will also have less battery live than the SSU ;-)


----------



## j--l

dcrainmaker said:


> I just tried, it appears to wipe out the previous sensor of that type each time you pair a new one. So I had one HR strap paired, then I went to pair a totally different one. No luck, deleted the other one (or if it did save them both, then it was hidden from view in the Paired Sensors list). Then tried the same with bike sensors, same result.


Thanks!
I really hope they would address this need in future FW update. It's a real pain in...for the people using several straps etc. 
(Edited)


----------



## FlashLighter

The Horizontal variant just made my day. Thanks


----------



## Hecke

Ingo said:


> You could probably hack your problem with a Strava Live segments / Garmin combo but I believe that still requires you to carry your smart phone which isn't really ideal in a 24h race. But I am sure Suunto will roll out a Spartan Horizontal with your above mentioned functionality at some point so stay tuned. And of course that function will be exclusive to the 'Horizontal' - oh wait, it will also have less battery live than the SSU ;-)


Haha! OK, I am waiting for the Spartan Horizontal. In the meantime I need the Ultra for all those long training runs...
Less battery life? No way!

Actually, there will be a very nice leaderboard where I can look up all the statistics every lap. But standing still is one of the most powerful performance killers in a timed race. Maybe I take a photo with my phone and read on the way?!

cheers
Hecke


----------



## kris92

Pre-orders may have been sent since my account was debited a few days ago.


----------



## WEM

kris92 said:


> Pre-orders may have been sent since my account was debited a few days ago.


preordered 2 weaks ago and payed with paypal. debited the day i ordered....


----------



## Larry115

I just called Suunto and was told pre-order shipments start on the 15th. I wish they would ship ear
y!


----------



## newtonfb

Ingo said:


> Anybody pounding the table yet because the SSU won't have 'route altitude profile on watch' out of the box? That will apparently remain exclusive to the Ambit Vertical. How can they call this thing 'ultra' when most ultras are all about the vertical?? That alone is killing the SSU for me. Pretty disappointed by these exclusive functions spread across their lesser variants.


Ya I dont know why this feature isnt standard. Someone mentioned also that its only viewable when you are in navigation mode. Thats pretty disappointing also. You should beable to load the route, have it find you with a GPS fix and then go from there by the distance you've covered.


----------



## Jaka83

newtonfb said:


> Ya I dont know why this feature isnt standard. Someone mentioned also that its only viewable when you are in navigation mode. Thats pretty disappointing also. You should beable to load the route, have it find you with a GPS fix and then go from there by the distance you've covered.


I don't mind it being only available in navigation mode, just let it be there. If I'm paying this much for a watch, I expect this to be included.

One other thing ... does anybody know why Suunto opted for a touch screen? It looks like it is there just for show, because most of the people will probably just use the responsive buttons. Or is there really a large crowd fancying the expensive touch screen?


----------



## Quotron

Jaka83 said:


> I don't mind it being only available in navigation mode, just let it be there. If I'm paying this much for a watch, I expect this to be included.
> 
> One other thing ... does anybody know why Suunto opted for a touch screen? It looks like it is there just for show, because most of the people will probably just use the responsive buttons. Or is there really a large crowd fancying the expensive touch screen?


Because people were crying that the Ambit screen looked like something from the 80s and wasn't getting them enough likes on their Instagram pics. Same reason they got rid of the GPS nub, form over function...


----------



## gimegime

Rem_ said:


> Thx Ray. I thought this guy(runningsolidaire) was using planned workout as he used specific activity type i've never seen on ambit "track & field".
> seems I was wrong and this exercise was purely manual.
> hope Suunto will provide true interval training mode in September, including auto interval lap (as we do not do interval only on track


Went back to the initial Suunto slides and found this on Interval Training










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## PabloAlarcon

the more I see this watch the more I love my ambits nothing really spectacular so far just fancy shiny stuff. Pobably after some 2 firmware upgrades and many complaints from users about lack of functions it'll be worth the upgrade. just my point of view.


----------



## gimegime

PabloAlarcon said:


> the more I see this watch the more I love my ambits nothing really spectacular so far just fancy shiny stuff. Pobably after some 2 firmware upgrades and many complaints from users about lack of functions it'll be worth the upgrade. just my point of view.


7 data fields on a screen, 3 rows, on the go lap summaries.....that stuff is gold for me. And all in a nice looking everyday watch. It's just what I need but can see why it's not for others

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bruceames

I'm just waiting to see for sure if the GPS reception is as good as the A3 in heavy forest cover. If not then I'm snatching up a spare A3P before they go OOS (hopefully I won't have to). Function over form wins every time with me.


----------



## morey000

bruceames said:


> I'm just waiting to see for sure if the GPS reception is as good as the A3 in heavy forest cover. If not then I'm snatching up a spare A3P before they go OOS (hopefully I won't have to). Function over form wins every time with me.


Ray only did one run, but the Spartan did as well as the others. if I had to deduce anything from his comparison with the 735xt and the new Polar 600- was that tall buildings pushed it off course a little, but it nailed the corners whereas the others rounded them. It looked solid.


----------



## Quotron

PabloAlarcon said:


> the more I see this watch the more I love my ambits nothing really spectacular so far just fancy shiny stuff. Pobably after some 2 firmware upgrades and many complaints from users about lack of functions it'll be worth the upgrade. just my point of view.


From the slides the rest and recovery stuff looks really good and I'm actually interested in that. But, as *bruceames* points out, if the GPS reception is not accurate, then all of that will be for naught. The Spartan Ultra is a great looking watch, and one that I want to like, but until we get enough data points there is good reason to be skeptical.


----------



## XCJagge

GPS accuracy maximizing tips for runners who have their hand/wrist like I do while running. For Ambits, inner wrist upside down. Perfect track accuracy, screen is hard to read because it is upside down (doesn't bother me because I never look at the watch during races, no time for it). SSU, some padding and antenna gets perfectly positioned and screen is readable. Still waiting for glonass support (and hopefully every second recording) to get everything out of it. Padding piece goes with my HR strap and I place it only when needed, at office I wear it just as a normal watch, of course. Accuracy booster padding is something I can take off an use only when I want, unlike ambit bulge.

I believe when held normally SSU without glonass will not be as accurate as A3 for me, simply because antenna is not that well placed compared to A3 bulge (see image). Glonass will make it close call. I am sure padding + glonass will make SSU more accurate than A3 worn normally. A3 inner wrist upside down vs. SSU padded + glonass will be interesting battle. I don't think A3 will get glonass support, unfortunately, that would be a killer.


----------



## rdm01

XCJagge said:


> View attachment 9005089
> 
> 
> GPS accuracy maximizing tips for runners who have their hand/wrist like I do while running. For Ambits, inner wrist upside down. Perfect track accuracy, screen is hard to read because it is upside down (doesn't bother me because I never look at the watch during races, no time for it). SSU, some padding and antenna gets perfectly positioned and screen is readable. Still waiting for glonass support (and hopefully every second recording) to get everything out of it. Padding piece goes with my HR strap and I place it only when needed, at office I wear it just as a normal watch, of course. Accuracy booster padding is something I can take off an use only when I want, unlike ambit bulge.
> 
> I believe when held normally SSU without glonass will not be as accurate as A3 for me, simply because antenna is not that well placed compared to A3 bulge (see image). Glonass will make it close call. I am sure padding + glonass will make SSU more accurate than A3 worn normally. A3 inner wrist upside down vs. SSU padded + glonass will be interesting battle. I don't think A3 will get glonass support, unfortunately, that would be a killer.


I tested your padding piece system with my Vertical and did not help in challenging zones :-( Of course it doesn't mean it will not work with SSU but I'm not optimistic. Anyway at this moment your point of view is better than most of us cause you actually own SSU to test it ;-)

deporteporvida.com


----------



## martowl

Well. I am a bit disappointed and I cancelled my preorder. I will wait and see if the vertical route finding is available and how the functionality appears after the Sept. upgrade.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

WEM said:


> preordered 2 weaks ago and payed with paypal. debited the day i ordered....


could be dependent on the retailer you used. I preordered as well and they aren't charging me until the watch ships.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

martowl said:


> Well. I am a bit disappointed and I cancelled my preorder. I will wait and see if the vertical route finding is available and how the functionality appears after the Sept. upgrade.


i saw an image on Instagram this morning showing a new firmware version being updated on the Spartan ultra. V1.1.8 to V1.1.18. However no clue as to what was actually being updated.


----------



## edit0r

XCJagge said:


> [iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9005089&d=1470822350"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]


This is how I must wear my Fenix 3 HR in order to get good and very good tracking... if I wear it the "normal" way I get decent tracking only. I would hate myself to buy an even more expensive sport watch with the same low performance GPS... and to be forced to wear it in strange ways just to obtain the performance that was present in a 2 or 3 years old GPS sport watch.


----------



## Quotron

edit0r said:


> This is how I must wear my Fenix 3 HR in order to get good and very good tracking... if I wear it the "normal" way I get decent tracking only. I would hate myself to buy an even more expensive sport watch with the same low performance GPS... and to be forced to wear it in strange ways just to obtain the performance that was present in a 2 or 3 years old GPS sport watch.


Well, with how much they're going for now, you could get 2+ Ambit3 Peaks for the price of one Spartan Ultra ;-)


----------



## XCJagge

edit0r said:


> ... and to be forced to wear it in strange ways just to obtain the performance that was present in a 2 or 3 years old GPS sport watch.


As I see it, no changes really. I had to wear all previous watches since fore 305 in strange ways too to get satisfying accuracy out of them. Like that Ambit 3 upside down.

Garmin Forerunner 305 was the last unit I have had with I could wear normally. Before getting my hands on SSU I thought A3 Peak will be a lot like Forerunner 305. An old big trusty work horse, manufacturer trying to improve accuracy and finally seeing it is good enough and ever since focusing on things like size & weight & look & features and letting accuracy getting compromised and letting it degrade model by model. And next devices after A3 peak being less accurate, just like 305 seems to still outperforms all current garmin watches. Even if it now feels like this with glonass on may well outperform A3 accuracy wise, the accuracy compromising feeling is still there when I think of what an accuracy monster a device with both antenna bulge and glonass would have been. So gps technology improvements are directed to make it smaller and sleeker, instead of letting it become more accurate. But easy to understand that approach now when wearing this as an everyday watch at office browsing past run's lap times with touch screen at coffee break colleagues asking what a heck is that... b-)


----------



## rdm01

martowl said:


> Well. I am a bit disappointed and I cancelled my preorder. I will wait and see if the vertical route finding is available and how the functionality appears after the Sept. upgrade.


In my experience with the Vertical the route altitude profile while navigation is not so good as you can think before using it. The lack of a zoom in the graph makes you can't evaluate how much distance/vertical distance you have to still going uphill and downhill even in short routes (10 km). It also happens in the Fenix 3. So it isn't a killer feature to me. On the other hand, the missing interval training feature it is. I use to do a interval session a week during my training season and it means I have to still using my V800 to do that for a while :-( Like you did I'm tempted to cancel my preorder and don't buy it until the intervals training is available.


----------



## edit0r

Speaking of GPS performance and strange watch position while running... I am coming from Polar V800 and with the V800 I've never had any GPS performance problems wearing it the "normal" way. I don't know if it's from the design, chipset, antenna, my wrist size and antenna positioning while wearing it and running... but it simply worked and I've never bothered to find out the details... But when I got the Fenix 3 HR all the fun started. Can't deny that the Fenix 3 has some good features like Ground Contact Time that helped me a lot to correct my running after an injury but it also has many bugs and it has that tricky GPS performance while running/walking. 
I am a little disappointed by what Suunto brought to the table (so far) in therms of features and functionality... I like the design of the watch a lot but other then that... at this point in time can't say that I am tempted to buy it... but I am hoping that it will get better because we all need the competition that Suunto brings for Garmin and Polar.

Thank you guys for all the infos!


----------



## Rem_

As we talk about competition, interesting catch from French blogger (montre cardio gps ) about supposedly imminent fenix4 review by DC . link http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/08/garmin-fenix4-review.html does not work but did exist at some point. 
That would definitely put some pressure / price & functionality (accuracy reliability is another story from Garmin work_in_progress fenix.
Spartan September full release would have to face direct competitor after all


----------



## anto1980

Suunto will ship tomorrow the Spartan Ultra. Just received the email confirmation.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

anto1980 said:


> Suunto will ship tomorrow the Spartan Ultra. Just received the email confirmation.


Did you order directly from suunto?


----------



## bruceames

Well I'd say the odds that someone will willingly wear a watch abnormally to compensate for bad reception is very small. I take that into account for hiking, but for running I look at my watch all the time to monitor pace via HR (and to check how I'm doing pace-wise, etc) and don't want to be wearing the watch in strange ways. I wear the A3P normally and get excellent results and would expect the same from its successor.


----------



## newtonfb

Rem_ said:


> As we talk about competition, interesting catch from French blogger (montre cardio gps ) about supposedly imminent fenix4 review by DC . link http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/08/garmin-fenix4-review.html does not work but did exist at some point.
> That would definitely put some pressure / price & functionality (accuracy reliability is another story from Garmin work_in_progress fenix.
> Spartan September full release would have to face direct competitor after all


I would be surprised if it was announced real soon. I am expecting CES in January. Ray has said over and over again he doesn't expect anything soon. I get he can't say anything but you think if it was going to be released soon he would just ignore the question and not be adamant about not knowing anything.


----------



## dcrainmaker

Rem_ said:


> As we talk about competition, interesting catch from French blogger (montre cardio gps ) about supposedly imminent fenix4 review by DC . link http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/08/garmin-fenix4-review.html does not work but did exist at some point.
> That would definitely put some pressure / price & functionality (accuracy reliability is another story from Garmin work_in_progress fenix.
> Spartan September full release would have to face direct competitor after all


I can assure you no such page has ever existed on my server. Period, full-stop. Seriously folks, there's no Fenix4 coming out in August or anytime soon.

Also, I generally don't go out of the gate with in-depth reviews these days, but rather tend to wait on devices a bit - usually preferring to go with hands-on/first look posts on final products. Thus, the URL would never say review if it wasn't a review (the URL's are auto-generated based on my title wording, though I usually clean them up a bit afterwards for some products). Finally, I'm usually pretty late to the game on getting my stuff actually up on the server. So short of something being announced tomorrow - you wouldn't find it on my server. And even if something was announced tomorrow, it's rare that I'd be this organized to have an entire post up there ready 24 hours in advance.

So in summary, not sure why or where said blogger is showing a link to the site for a page that's never existed.

(Though, in retrospect maybe I outta just let people click it and count the page views...)


----------



## anto1980

Yes. 6th of July!


Phoenixatdawn said:


> anto1980 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Suunto will ship tomorrow the Spartan Ultra. Just received the email confirmation.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you order directly from suunto?
Click to expand...


----------



## Rem_

@Ray, Thanks for confirming and sorry to share these misleading info.
Don't know either why/what's the intend. Guess to "test" something.
article never existed but tweet referring it yes :

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/762921557211639808


----------



## dcrainmaker

Rem_ said:


> @Ray, Thanks for confirming and sorry to share these misleading info.
> Don't know either why/what's the intend. Guess to "test" something.
> article never existed but tweet referring it yes :
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/762921557211639808


So weird. Nothing has ever been posted with such a URL, ever. If it had (even for a split-second), then all of the Feedly type services would have picked it up - since those gets pinged instantly anytime something shows up.

Appreciate the link though...


----------



## gimegime

Have been waiting for The 5k Runners thoughts on this watch as I find his reviews bang on. So it's really pleasing to hear his positive mini review. Will be interested to see if the full review holds up in time.

* "razor sharp GPS"
* Touch screen is good, not perfect, but better than new Garmin Edge 820
* intuitive menus
* impressed with route tracking
* impressive running metrics
* may turn out to be the Fenix killer after all

https://the5krunner.com/2016/08/11/...inematix-tune-forthosewhorun-zoirun-runright/

And first swim review

https://the5krunner.com/2016/08/11/suunto-spartan-ultra-first-swim-a-bit-about-the-charger/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

rdm01 said:


> In my experience with the Vertical the route altitude profile while navigation is not so good as you can think before using it. The lack of a zoom in the graph makes you can't evaluate how much distance/vertical distance you have to still going uphill and downhill even in short routes (10 km). It also happens in the Fenix 3. So it isn't a killer feature to me. On the other hand, the missing interval training feature it is. I use to do a interval session a week during my training season and it means I have to still using my V800 to do that for a while :-( Like you did I'm tempted to cancel my preorder and don't buy it until the intervals training is available.


I am confident intervals will be a standard feature come September. It's in their original slide deck of features as a standard running mode and based on Ray's feedback from Suunto that there is a decent sized functionality update in September I would be shocked if it's not there.

Am surprised and disappointed it's not there from the get go as its weekly training for any triathlete

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hecke

Short question: 
Someone mentioned in this thread that he got a discount when ordering directly from Suunto.
Does anyone know of a similar campaign in Germany?

thx
Hecke


----------



## rdm01

Hecke said:


> Short question:
> Someone mentioned in this thread that he got a discount when ordering directly from Suunto.
> Does anyone know of a similar campaign in Germany?
> 
> thx
> Hecke


I'm not sure if it helps to you but I ordered from fitnessdigital.com. I think they got an online store also in Germany.

The case was I completed all the order steps (registration included) but didn't make the payment. One or two hours after they sent me an email with 5% discount I could apply to the current basket and I completed the payment. They wrote me an email three days ago my SSU delivery time will me next Friday.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Hecke

rdm01 said:


> I think they got an online store also in Germany.


True. I found it. Thanks!
On a price search engine I found a German shop (www.sport-tiedje.de) that gives 50 Euros off, as, how they call it, introduction discount. Still I was hoping to find a better offer somewhere. Maybe I get that shop to give me another 5% off ;-)

Edit: Why does the forum software change my link?


----------



## edit0r

gimegime said:


> Have been waiting for The 5k Runners thoughts on this watch as I find his reviews bang on. So it's really pleasing to hear his positive mini review. Will be interested to see if the full review holds up in time.
> 
> * "*razor sharp GPS*"


I would have liked a lot more info supporting that claim.

Just because it has an better GPS performance does not make it an Fenix 3 killer as he mentioned at the end of the mini review... It lacks a lot more of the Fenix 3 features to be a Fenix 3 killer...
And we don't have the necessary info from Suunto to estimate what the future features are they willing to implement and how the watch will develop over time... and time is important because with Fenix 4 around the corner who knows how the game will turn around.... Even Polar might wake up from the deep sleep and finally show us an V800 succesor...

I am still waiting for solid proof that the GPS performance of the SSU is indeed great.
- more comparative runs SSU with Polar v800 and Suunto Ambit 3
- more runs in the city near medium/high buildings
- more runs in the forest

I want to see how the watch performs in the tough environments regarding GPS...


----------



## johan6504

In my world there is no such thing as a Fenix 3 killer. Fenix 3 died a long time ago, due to utterly useless GPS. No features in the world can make up for such bad GPS-performance. 
But I am also awaiting more solid proof that SSU has that "razor sharp GPS" 5K runner is talking about. A test comparing SSU with V800 and Ambit 3 would be nice...
Hopefully I will get mine next week and then we will know


----------



## IronP

johan6504 said:


> In my world there is no such thing as a Fenix 3 killer. Fenix 3 died a long time ago, due to utterly useless GPS. No features in the world can make up for such bad GPS-performance.
> But I am also awaiting more solid proof that SSU has that "razor sharp GPS" 5K runner is talking about. A test comparing SSU with V800 and Ambit 3 would be nice...
> Hopefully I will get mine next week and then we will know


Hello guys, i am a long time polar user, which due to the horrible experience with the v800, changed to suunto ambit3 peak.
From my experience with the v800 (i had 4 watches due to warranty exchages), none of them are match for the solid gps from the ambit3 peak (i ve 2 of those).
Next week i will check at the local retailer if they have the new SSU and if i like it in my hands, i will buy it. So, if everything goes as planned, i will be able to make a direct comparison v800, ambit3 peak and the new SSU.
cheers....b-)


----------



## chuwi

received an email from suunto minutes ago. My spartan ultra has been sent (to spain)


----------



## gimegime

edit0r said:


> I would have liked a lot more info supporting that claim.
> 
> Just because it has an better GPS performance does not make it an Fenix 3 killer as he mentioned at the end of the mini review... It lacks a lot more of the Fenix 3 features to be a Fenix 3 killer...
> And we don't have the necessary info from Suunto to estimate what the future features are they willing to implement and how the watch will develop over time... and time is important because with Fenix 4 around the corner who knows how the game will turn around.... Even Polar might wake up from the deep sleep and finally show us an V800 succesor...
> 
> I am still waiting for solid proof that the GPS performance of the SSU is indeed great.
> - more comparative runs SSU with Polar v800 and Suunto Ambit 3
> - more runs in the city near medium/high buildings
> - more runs in the forest
> 
> I want to see how the watch performs in the tough environments regarding GPS...


As 5kRunner clearly states, it's his first impressions after 1 run. Same as Ray's vid after 1 run. Both were clear its too early for a full review.

For me it's pleasing to see. Personally I don't expect the GPS to be equal to the Ambit Peak. Bezel antennae seems to have hindered that. Never understood the big objection to the nub. As long as the reception is superior to other competitors then I am satisfied and by all reports it is.

But to be honest, you can't get any worse then a Fenix 3 anyway. No amount of features would convince me to purchase a watch with such inaccurate GPS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johan6504

chuwi said:


> received an email from suunto minutes ago. My spartan ultra has been sent (to spain)


I got mail too, UPS tracking number is stating that it is on its way to Sweden  Finally after 6 weeks the waiting is soon over...


----------



## WEM

My Spartan is also on the way to me


----------



## anto1980

My SSU is on the way! :heart_eyes::heart_eyes::heart_eyes::heart_eyes:


----------



## Larry115

Any buyers in the U.S. getting shipping confirmations? I called Suunto and was told mine would ship Monday and that because of the delay they have upgraded shipping on all preorders to 2nd day...
I sold my Ambit3 sport because of the movescount app not working properly and not so great GPS accuracy. I then got the Fenix 3 HR, but for some unexplained reason I'm bonded to Suunto. I then sold my Fenix when I heard about the Spartan...so I guess what I'm saying I'm having a hard time waiting and the anticipation of its performance is overwhelming! Most people wouldn't understand this I guess...


----------



## dogrunner

Larry115 said:


> ......so I guess what I'm saying I'm having a hard time waiting and the anticipation of its performance is overwhelming! Most people wouldn't understand this I guess...


 Except everyone here.


----------



## Larry115

Exactly! Lol


----------



## Larry115

I live in the U.S. And just received an email from Suunto that my Ultra has shipped...arriving Tuesday! Perfect!


----------



## matej123

Do you think Titanium is worth extra 100 euros?


----------



## rdm01

Larry115 said:


> Any buyers in the U.S. getting shipping confirmations? I called Suunto and was told mine would ship Monday and that because of the delay they have upgraded shipping on all preorders to 2nd day...
> I sold my Ambit3 sport because of the movescount app not working properly and not so great GPS accuracy. I then got the Fenix 3 HR, but for some unexplained reason I'm bonded to Suunto. I then sold my Fenix when I heard about the Spartan...so I guess what I'm saying I'm having a hard time waiting and the anticipation of its performance is overwhelming! Most people wouldn't understand this I guess...


You sold the Ambit3 Sport because not so great GPS accuracy!! So maybe you have to reconsider to buy any GPS device since the GPS technology accuracy is very limited in the real world.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Simurgh

I am sure this was around before, but to summarise the difference between Ultra and Sport:

1. Sport is thinner (17mm vs 13.8mm)
2. Ultra has better battery life
3. Ultra has barometer 

anything else? 

Btw. Does any of these two do sleep tracking?


----------



## zvojan

Sport modes


----------



## morey000

anto1980 said:


> My SSU is on the way! :heart_eyes::heart_eyes::heart_eyes::heart_eyes:


It's gonna' be a slightly frustrating experience to start- as currently, the Spartan is still a bit hobbled in its capabilities. You cannot customize the displays for each of the sport modes. They'll add that (essential) feature next month. And I don't know when we'll be able to add apps. I'll wait.

And- I'm looking forward to reading all of your reports.


----------



## edit0r

gimegime said:


> As 5kRunner clearly states, it's his first impressions after 1 run. Same as Ray's vid after 1 run. Both were clear its too early for a full review...


Let me point the following out
1. I don't trust reviewers since the Fenix3/HR reviews... most either didn't speak clearly about of the GPS performance or they mention that it is "good" "very good" or "solid". Some reviewers in the light of the evidence brought in the Garmin forum they redacted the GPS performance part review taking the enthusiasm down a notch.... bottom line... after 3 Fenix 3 HR, 1 Polar V800, 2 Garmin 910XT I know exactly how "good" or "solid" the performance of the Fenix 3/HR is and how does it compare to the competition.
2. I roam there forums because I want to find out peoples genuine opinions and I want to see the first hand proof, links to the runs, comparative runs made with SSU and V800 and Ambit 3...
3. I am tired of the fanboys, influencers and damage control users that you can find in the forums.... brand name forums...
4. We ALL want information on the GPS precision meaning we want proof, numbers, tracks... we do not want just "words"... I've seen plenty of words in many Fenix 3 reviews... that meant nothing.
5. If I would get the SSU watch right now my first run it will be with an V800 or Ambit 3 because more then anything else I would be curious how is the GPS performance of the SSU compared to the best.... the 5kRunner did not do that BUT he showed us that it does have plenty of watches... useless, annoying, exasperating. 
6. Please don't compare 5krunner with Ray... Ray did the job right... presenting us the track, commenting... that's what I call proof. Yes, it's 1 run but at least it's documented as it should be.

Not gonna talk about the SSU anymore... Many of my comments are not welcome... also the more I read the more I am convinced that this watch was brought to the market way too soon... If you buy it now, you buy an incomplete product that would probably mature somewhat in the next 6 months (if not more). 
Things should not be this way... but by buying their product at a premium price I might add we encourage every brand out there to behave the same... sell an incomplete product.

But, in the end, most of us don't care... we are happy that we get a shiny new toy... the functionality can wait.


----------



## Jaka83

Simurgh said:


> I am sure this was around before, but to summarise the difference between Ultra and Sport:
> 
> 1. Sport is thinner (17mm vs 13.8mm)
> 2. Ultra has better battery life
> 3. Ultra has barometer
> 
> anything else?
> 
> Btw. Does any of these two do sleep tracking?


It's too early to say, but as it stands now, the only differences are the ones you listed and that the strap+housing/ring is a bit different + some additional colors for the Sport (Sakura/Pinkish and Blue).

Suunto will probably software limit the Sport model as it did with the Ambit Sport - certain features not available and so on. But we all need to wait and see, because we haven't even heard any info regarding what features the SSU will have to start with.


----------



## watchvids

Simurgh said:


> 1. Sport is thinner (17mm vs 13.8mm)
> 2. Ultra has better battery life
> 3. Ultra has barometer


Ultra has sapphire glass.


----------



## Larry115

You sold the Ambit3 Sport because not so great GPS accuracy!! So maybe you have to reconsider to buy any GPS device since the GPS technology accuracy is very limited in the real world.

didnt post the info for a debate...sorry if I offended you dude. I just enjoy these watches because they are fun!


----------



## Larry115

All this doesn't have to be so complicated...most of us are not professional athletes. Not sure how many of those guys actually use these watches expecting as much as some of us. For myself and many of you it's a hobby to out run age and have a good time. These watches add to the fun. I am personally excited about getting a new watch and look forward to all the updates no matter what they are...."one life right, don't blow it"


----------



## Jaka83

I agree with you Larry115, but most of us already own sport watches and if we're looking to upgrade, we want to actually upgrade, not downgrade. For me this won't be a problem since I think this watch will be an upgrade to my Ambit 1 - quite a leap if I might add. But I'm still a bit concerned about the GPS accuracy and customization of this watch so I'll wait for early adopters to test it out and probably get the watch in September or maybe even wait for the next update to the series and get something in February for my BD.


----------



## Larry115

Hey Jaka83...thanks! I'm always intrigued with other countries and what it would be like to live there. Slovenija must be a cool place. Is a good climate wise for training? What will u use your watch for?


----------



## Jaka83

Slovenia is a nice small hilly country with lakes, mountains, rivers and a very short coastal line - we have hot Summers and cold Winters, everything in between is great for training, but I don't want to go too much off topic here.

I've been using my Ambit 1 for a good three years now without any problems - I do a lot of trekking/hiking/mountaineering, road cycling and skiing.


----------



## matej123

Okay people i have one serious question from where are you and what is your wage. Just to so who can easy afford it and who must save for the watch. I come from Slovenia my monthly wage is 900 euros + money for gas and work food. And i must pay almost all my wage for watch.


----------



## silentvoyager

watchvids said:


> Ultra has sapphire glass.


I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with sapphire glass. In over 3 years of using Ambit and Ambit3 with regular glass I've never had even a tiny scratch. And my activities included a lot of trail running in the woods and even some scrambling and rock climbing. I don't use any glass protectors either.

May be it is more important in Spartan which lacks the protective rim. Anyway, I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with Spartan either. I personally is disappointed with its specs and in my opinion Ambit3 is still superior. Let's wait and see until first real performance and precision comparisons start to show up on this thread.


----------



## martowl

silentvoyager said:


> watchvids said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ultra has sapphire glass.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with sapphire glass. In over 3 years of using Ambit and Ambit3 with regular glass I've never had even a tiny scratch. And my activities included a lot of trail running in the woods and even some scrambling and rock climbing. I don't use any glass protectors either.
> 
> May be it is more important in Spartan which lacks the protective rim. Anyway, I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with Spartan either. I personally is disappointed with its specs and in my opinion Ambit3 is still superior. Let's wait and see until first real performance and precision comparisons start to show up on this thread.
Click to expand...

I switched to Sapphire glass as I have scratched every mineral glass Ambit I owned trail running on and off trail (in reality mountain scrambling). I have a tiny ding in my Sapphire glass. For me, the Sapphire is worth the extra cost. I do get out in the mountains both winter and summer a lot.


----------



## Ingo

gimegime said:


> Have been waiting for The 5k Runners thoughts on this watch as I find his reviews bang on. So it's really pleasing to hear his positive mini review. Will be interested to see if the full review holds up in time.
> 
> * "razor sharp GPS"
> * Touch screen is good, not perfect, but better than new Garmin Edge 820
> * intuitive menus
> * impressed with route tracking
> * impressive running metrics
> * may turn out to be the Fenix killer after all


No disrespect but I cannot help thinking that "razor sharp GPS" sounds almost like a planted marketing slogan imho - especially given that the GPS performance will likely be the single most watched function that drives people's purchase decision. All the above points smell desperately elevated - how can it all be that "impressive" compared to what we have seen elsewhere please? Everything that people are a little wary about is now razor sharp, intuitive, good and impressive - as if to make all the worries we had just go away overnight. When folks are trying that hard to make it look that good then I am naturally a little careful. I don't need anything "impressive" to buy that watch, just something good that works so why the big words??


----------



## IronP

Indeed Ingo,
i had the same impression about the too "pumped" words used by 5krunners...however reading through the lines, it seems that he was trying to pass the message, that the watch seems to be in the right way, according to our expectations...
I personally like facts than words in a review, so at this point, time will tell next week, when the folks will start using their SSUs.
Finally, for the folks that are receiving their SSUs, it seems that the software is already at v1.1.24, according to some pictures from the internet. (I uploaded the pic here, but not sure if it worked)
cheers...


----------



## Hecke

Hecke said:


> True. I found it. Thanks!
> On a price search engine I found a German shop (www.sport-tiedje.de) that gives 50 Euros off, as, how they call it, introduction discount. Still I was hoping to find a better offer somewhere. Maybe I get that shop to give me another 5% off ;-)
> 
> Edit: Why does the forum software change my link?


(Just) Today said shop gives another 5% off, so I ordered the stainless steel ultra for 616,55 Euros. Yeah!


----------



## gimegime

Ingo said:


> No disrespect but I cannot help thinking that "razor sharp GPS" sounds almost like a planted marketing slogan imho - especially given that the GPS performance will likely be the single most watched function that drives people's purchase decision. All the above points smell desperately elevated - how can it all be that "impressive" compared to what we have seen elsewhere please? Everything that people are a little wary about is now razor sharp, intuitive, good and impressive - as if to make all the worries we had just go away overnight. When folks are trying that hard to make it look that good then I am naturally a little careful. I don't need anything "impressive" to buy that watch, just something good that works so why the big words??


So take it up with the5krunner. I posted the link and quotes from the article. That's it. All you need to do is click in the link and fire away. You can ask all questions directly.......

Getting upset because a reviewer happens to get good results based on 1 run and blogs about it is pretty transparent imho.

Yeah I think I would rather read a variety of reviews and make my own mind up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edit0r

gimegime said:


> So take it up with the5krunner. I posted the link and quotes from the article. That's it. All you need to do is click in the link and fire away. You can ask all questions directly.......
> 
> Getting upset because a reviewer happens to get good results based on 1 run and blogs about it is pretty transparent imho.
> 
> Yeah I think I would rather read a variety of reviews and make my own mind up.


Take it easy man... You take a lot of the comments/discussions way too personal...

This is a forum where ALL opinions are welcome, discussed and debated... with calm.

HERE we must comment every link posted... because on the 5krunner site might get ignored/deleted... HERE is the neutral ground not there...

Like Ingo, I did not like his so called review that lacked proof to backup his claims. Given the state of the watch if you are honest to the readers you can't picture the watch in a warm nice light, use big words like _"razor sharp GPS" _ when you only had 1 run and you didn't even bother to compare it to others watches and so on..

Yeah, I can understand that he liked the watch, he was happy to get it but when you speak to a lot of readers you need to be way more balanced.


----------



## rdm01

Hi there!

A spanish runner did a common route with his new SSU.

joaquinpegil's 1:07 h Trail running Move

The same route some days before wearing his Ambit3 Peak Sapphire

joaquinpegil's 1:05 h Running Move and also joaquinpegil's 1:10 h Running Move

He says the SSU did a good job. Also he says GPS accuracy is as good as his A3. Looks to me pretty close one to the others son looks like SSU GPS accuracy is in the good way.

Please note they aren't my moves so I couldn't say if he really did exactly the same route or he did some small variations during them.

Please check them and then write your thoughts ;-)

BTW Looks like my SUU will be deliver this week. So I can do the same test I did when Vertical was launched. That time it will be SSU vs V800 since I've sold all my ambit3...

EDIT: They aren't exactly the same route. Two of them are the same but with a difference end-point. Anyway the third move helps to know how the track is plotted in the common paths.


----------



## gimegime

edit0r said:


> Take it easy man... You take a lot of the comments/discussions way too personal...
> 
> This is a forum where ALL opinions are welcome, discussed and debated... with calm.
> 
> HERE we must comment every link posted... because on the 5krunner site might get ignored/deleted... HERE is the neutral ground not there...
> 
> Like Ingo, I did not like his so called review that lacked proof to backup his claims. Given the state of the watch if you are honest to the readers you can't picture the watch in a warm nice light, use big words like _"razor sharp GPS" _ when you only had 1 run and you didn't even bother to compare it to others watches and so on..
> 
> Yeah, I can understand that he liked the watch, he was happy to get it but when you speak to a lot of readers you need to be way more balanced.


1 singular run can produce "razor sharp" results just as much as 1 run can produce not so accurate. It's repeatability that's what counts.

The reviewer clearly states it's 1 run and those were the findings. There is no recommendation to buy the product and no attempt to disguise that it's early opinion.

You could of course just ask 5krunner how he came to his findings and get an actual answer. That's if you want one of course.

I remember you were also critiquing Ray's un-boxing vids a few pages because it wasn't thorough enough for your liking.

I think you don't quite understand the concept of reviewers or bloggers giving their early impressions. I quite like them and would rather read that then wait 2-3 months for a full review.

Anyway, I come here to read actual first hand accounts of this watch. So far I have seen Ray's, XCJagge and 5kRunner. Hopefully next week there will be a lot more with deliveries.

Good luck with your Fenix3 and your V800.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## IronP

rdm01 said:


> Hi there!
> 
> A spanish runner did a common route with his new SSU....
> 
> It seems that the SSU does not calculate the performance level as the A3 normally does in run modus :think:.
> thanks for sharing...


----------



## Rebnats

Hi Guys, Can anyone confirm that Spartan watch will receive apps downloads from Movescount. Looking on their site only reveals apps for Ambits and Traverse watches only, unless this will be updated soon to include Spartan. Also any idea if other watch faces can be downloaded or is it just the stock watch face appearing on their ads.
Cheers.


----------



## rdm01

IronP said:


> rdm01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there!
> 
> A spanish runner did a common route with his new SSU....
> 
> It seems that the SSU does not calculate the performance level as the A3 normally does in run modus :think:.
> thanks for sharing...
> 
> 
> 
> They're trail running so they haven't running index. Only road running moves got running index.
> 
> deporteporvida.com
Click to expand...


----------



## edit0r

gimegime said:


> The reviewer clearly states it's 1 run and those were the findings. There is no recommendation to buy the product and no attempt to disguise that it's early opinion.


For many who want the watch... 1 (or more) nice positive review(s) is enough to seal the deal... no need to recommend the watch... You just need to picture it in a positive light and people understand that it's good/very good.... after you picture it in such a good light there is not way that you can trash it in a full review.... right?



gimegime said:


> You could of course just ask 5krunner how he came to his findings and get an actual answer. That's if you want one of course.


If he wanted for us to know more probably he should have posted way more details in his first review... or soon after... but since he did not... Probably he has reasons, I don't know.



gimegime said:


> I remember you were also critiquing Ray's un-boxing vids a few pages because it wasn't thorough enough for your liking.


I did not trash Ray, in fact I explained in detail what were my reasons for not liking his unboxing. I am entitled to my opinions, If you don't like my opinions, fine by me..



gimegime said:


> I think you don't quite understand the concept of reviewers or bloggers giving their early impressions. I quite like them and would rather read that then wait 2-3 months for a full review.


If you like them fine by me... but don't get negative and personal on me if I criticize them especially when I explained in detail why and what I don't like about them... Again... I did not trash his review with 3 bad words... I explained why these kind of positive only reviews don't look good... they paint half a picture leading people to believe that everything is great... when in fact we DON'T know how things will turn out to be

Fact : There's a LOT of nice and positive reviews/short reviews out there about Fenix 3/HR... Do you trust those warm and nice empty words when you know for a fact how weak is the Fenix 3 GPS performance? How do you expect I would not question the 5krunner positive review nice, positive review when I know first hand how misleading it can be...

I decided that I will speak up any time I find reviews and information that depict half the picture...



gimegime said:


> Good luck with your Fenix3 and your V800.


I just love a troll punch line in the end ! That's the spirit ! Welcome to my ignore list !

L.E: I apologize for the offtopic guys.


----------



## edit0r

rdm01 said:


> Hi there!
> 
> A spanish runner did a common route with his new SSU.
> 
> Please check them and then write your thoughts ;-)
> 
> BTW Looks like my SUU will be deliver this week. So I can do the same test I did when Vertical was launched. That time it will be SSU vs V800 since I've sold all my ambit3...


First of all the tracking looks good BUT I must say that his environment is not challenging enough.

In that environment even Fenix 3 can perform good as many have demonstrated already on the Garmin forums running in similar environment.

To summarize : he has very few low level buildings around, most of the track has some trees here and there but no medium or heavy foliage to run under, he runs mostly on the street with plenty of open sky above and no objects left or right (like parked cars for instance)

As he enters the town (and the same as he exits) if you look closely the narrow street and small houses closer together (tougher environment for GPS) determine the SSU tracking to wobble something that does not happen outside the town and also something I don't see on the Ambit 3 tracking... yeah looks like an insignificant detail but I recognize the same pattern that I see in many Fenix 3 runs.... This is not good... bottom line... I am not convinced yet about the SSU GPS performance... need more data.

@rdm01

I am looking forward for your comparative runs SSU + V800.
Please try to make some runs in a more challenging environment if possible (with both watches).... forest, trees, foliage, around med/high buildings and so on.
The more runs the better... even if are short ones 
Thank you!


----------



## dcrainmaker

Rebnats said:


> Hi Guys, Can anyone confirm that Spartan watch will receive apps downloads from Movescount. Looking on their site only reveals apps for Ambits and Traverse watches only, unless this will be updated soon to include Spartan. Also any idea if other watch faces can be downloaded or is it just the stock watch face appearing on their ads.
> Cheers.


Not at this time. The Spartan series doesn't permit apps to be downloaded to it.

From discussions, it sounds like they're working something out for apps down the road - but that's not a concrete item. They actually wanted me to be pretty clear with the language I was using that apps are again, not a guarantee, during my discussions with them. They're trying to take into account feedback from folks and figure out where the priority is based on feedback. I'm sure they read here, reviews, Twitter, etc...

I suspect (if I had to wager) is that we won't see any app functionality until at least 2017. My guess is they'll spend the rest of the year trying to get feature parity with the Ambit series (i.e. configuration of data fields/pages, POI's, GPS recording options, etc...). Plus squashing bugs (I'm finding more little ones as each day goes on). Natural for a new product, but you're looking at starting a bit behind the curve from where they left off with the Ambit3 series in terms of functionality.


----------



## Rebnats

dcrainmaker said:


> Not at this time. The Spartan series doesn't permit apps to be downloaded to it.
> 
> From discussions, it sounds like they're working something out for apps down the road - but that's not a concrete item. They actually wanted me to be pretty clear with the language I was using that apps are again, not a guarantee, during my discussions with them. They're trying to take into account feedback from folks and figure out where the priority is based on feedback. I'm sure they read here, reviews, Twitter, etc...
> 
> I suspect (if I had to wager) is that we won't see any app functionality until at least 2017. My guess is they'll spend the rest of the year trying to get feature parity with the Ambit series (i.e. configuration of data fields/pages, POI's, GPS recording options, etc...). Plus squashing bugs (I'm finding more little ones as each day goes on). Natural for a new product, but you're looking at starting a bit behind the curve from where they left off with the Ambit3 series in terms of functionality.


Thank you for your time and very informative reply.  
In that case I will just hold off on this one until if and when they do allow this functionality, I am not a serious athlete, more of a fun/keep fit type of guy and my other time pieces at present serves this purpose, otherwise I would be out in Rio competing in the Olympics. :-d


----------



## rdm01

edit0r said:


> First of all the tracking looks good BUT I must say that his environment is not challenging enough.
> 
> In that environment even Fenix 3 can perform good as many have demonstrated already on the Garmin forums running in similar environment.
> 
> To summarize : he has very few low level buildings around, most of the track has some trees here and there but no medium or heavy foliage to run under, he runs mostly on the street with plenty of open sky above and no objects left or right (like parked cars for instance)
> 
> As he enters the town (and the same as he exits) if you look closely the narrow street and small houses closer together (tougher environment for GPS) determine the SSU tracking to wobble something that does not happen outside the town and also something I don't see on the Ambit 3 tracking... yeah looks like an insignificant detail but I recognize the same pattern that I see in many Fenix 3 runs.... This is not good... bottom line... I am not convinced yet about the SSU GPS performance... need more data.
> 
> @rdm01
> 
> I am looking forward for your comparative runs SSU + V800.
> Please try to make some runs in a more challenging environment if possible (with both watches).... forest, trees, foliage, around med/high buildings and so on.
> The more runs the better... even if are short ones
> Thank you!


As a side note I have to say the guy who did the move got five different Fenix 3. All of them returned due to GPS inaccuracies. I suppose he got inaccuracies with his F3 in that route too.

Don't worry about the place I'm going to do my own test with the SSU and V800. It's really a very challenge area ;-)

I hope my SSU will be delivered on next Thursday or Friday....

deporteporvida.com


----------



## XCJagge

I can confirm the unit is not razor sharp. Edges are pretty smooth - I have done plenty of swiping without getting any wounds :-d

What it comes to gps accuracy, no one can confirm much anything before glonass gets enabled. Someone claiming it is razor sharp without glonass being enabled is simply nonsense? what it will be with glonass then? Surgical blade sharp?


----------



## Jaka83

Does glonass really make that big of a difference? I'm asking seriously.


----------



## martowl

Glad I cancelled my pre-order. Incredibly happy with my Ambit3 Sapphire and will wait until the SSU is a clear improvement before I purchase.


----------



## edit0r

I've seen that Gerald Zhang-Schmidt got his SSU 
I've also seen you running with it in the city... 
I've also seen him around liking some posts.

@Gerald Zhang-Schmidt can you please post some runs for us to study?


Thank you !


----------



## Hecke

dcrainmaker said:


> They're trying to take into account feedback from folks and figure out where the priority is based on feedback. I'm sure they read here


If they do:
I want Apps!
I want access to every sensor in my apps. Give me the raw GPS coordinates!
I want a Linux-version of Moveslink/SuuntoLink. I'd even write it myself if you provide the API for the watch and Movescount. Seriously!

thanks for listening (hopefully)
Hecke


----------



## IronP

Guys! The users manual is online...download yours at the suunto support page...!
Have fun...


----------



## dcrainmaker

Jaka83 said:


> Does glonass really make that big of a difference? I'm asking seriously.


It depends.

GLONASS doesn't directly increase accuracy. It's not like saying it increases the precision to a higher standard.

What it does do though is increase the # of satellites available to the unit, so it effectively increases redundancy. Where this can matter is in places that have bad satellite coverage (i.e. cities, wooded areas, etc...), as by increasing the satellites available you decrease the chance that you'll lose coverage and fall into bad GPS accuracy ranges. For many people, it probably won't make an appreciable difference 95-98% of the time. But it's that 2-5% of the time that it may actually matter. Finally, some users have reported decreased accuracy in some cases - though, I haven't seen a clear-cut pattern on why that is.

I haven't asked to see when it'll be enabled, I'll shoot a note over.


----------



## Jaka83

Thanks for clarifying Ray. I thought there was some magic trick about Glonass I didn't know about, turns out it's just "moar" satellites.  As I'm still using the first generation Ambit I must rely on my cell phone's GPS to get a reference altitude before starting my activity tracking and then correct the barometer offset on the Ambit to get a good base pressure calibration ... usually I get about 6-12 satellite locks for a pretty accurate GPS altitude reading and then manually transfer that to my watch (right on FusedAlti the manual way  ).

I read the whole user manual and found nothing particularly new in there, except for one mention of disabling the touch screen - YES. I also saw the battery life estimation and it looks like it's from 18-65 hours which is more than enough for me. I rarely take hikes longer than 15 hours and usually carry a battery pack with me to recharge my phone and the watch.

Looks like all we're missing now is apps, sport mode customization and some bonus features Suunto might throw in there (Suunto, if you're reading this ... HINT: Altitude profile tied with navigation mode PLEASE).


Looking forward to more of your videos Ray, I enjoy them very much - thanks.


----------



## WEM

Here the list of changes in the new software (found on the Suunto page):
SUUNTO SPARTAN SOFTWARE RELEASE 1.1.24

Possibility to answer upcoming phone calls on the watch
Multisport support for selecting a new sport mode during training
Triathlon sport mode to support swim-t1-bike-t2-run sequence
Favorite modes shown when starting exercise with an option to select other modes
All sport modes updated to show the most relevant values
New sport modes e.g. running with power, running on track, interval mode for cycling etc.
Vertical speed values available in selected sport modes
Breadcrumb view shown in modes where GPS is used
New activities: obstacle racing
Summary displays autolaps/manuals laps which can be browsed
Summary doesn't show laps if those weren't used
Multisport has some activity specific values
Better visual look and feel for displays during sport
Move type (i.e. race, interval) stored based on the sport mode type
Touch enabled for interactions to go back and forth in various displays
Several bug fixes and performance improvements


----------



## WEM

doublepost


----------



## johan6504

Anyone know how to pair STRYD with SSU and how to get power in trailmode?


----------



## gimegime

johan6504 said:


> Anyone know how to pair STRYD with SSU and how to get power in trailmode?


Off topic but how do you find using Stryd?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

WEM said:


> Here the list of changes in the new software (found on the Suunto page):
> SUUNTO SPARTAN SOFTWARE RELEASE 1.1.24
> 
> Possibility to answer upcoming phone calls on the watch
> Multisport support for selecting a new sport mode during training
> Triathlon sport mode to support swim-t1-bike-t2-run sequence
> Favorite modes shown when starting exercise with an option to select other modes
> All sport modes updated to show the most relevant values
> New sport modes e.g. running with power, running on track, interval mode for cycling etc.
> Vertical speed values available in selected sport modes
> Breadcrumb view shown in modes where GPS is used
> New activities: obstacle racing
> Summary displays autolaps/manuals laps which can be browsed
> Summary doesn't show laps if those weren't used
> Multisport has some activity specific values
> Better visual look and feel for displays during sport
> Move type (i.e. race, interval) stored based on the sport mode type
> Touch enabled for interactions to go back and forth in various displays
> Several bug fixes and performance improvements


Some interesting stuff here.

* Possibility to answer upcoming calls.....not sure what that means
* Multisport functionality- looking forward to seeing what improvements have been made
*The lap summary features look impressive so far.
* intervals-is the main features I wanted added at the moment. Let's see how it works

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rdm01

gimegime said:


> Some interesting stuff here.
> 
> * Possibility to answer upcoming calls.....not sure what that means
> * Multisport functionality- looking forward to seeing what improvements have been made
> *The lap summary features look impressive so far.
> * intervals-is the main features I wanted added at the moment. Let's see how it works
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Workout planner (as ambit3 got) is very important to me. I use it once a week.

Also the ability to set up the screens data fields.

I hope they are in the developers priority to-do list 

deporteporvida.com


----------



## gimegime

rdm01 said:


> Workout planner (as ambit3 got) is very important to me. I use it once a week.
> 
> Also the ability to set up the screens data fields.
> 
> I hope they are in the developers priority to-do list
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Agree. Was more commenting on what was in that release. One thing I like about Suunto is they do fairly regularly update the firmware.


----------



## matej123

Review of SSU.

» Suunto Spartan Ultra Review: The 1st Few Weeks


----------



## johan6504

gimegime said:


> Off topic but how do you find using Stryd?


I dont know, just started ;-) I am half way in to the book _running with power_ so we will have to see...


----------



## gimegime

johan6504 said:


> I dont know, just started ;-) I am half way in to the book _running with power_ so we will have to see...


Be keen to hear how you go as am thinking of grabbing one soon. Good luck

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Paulchen4711

Hi Folks,

happy to tell that my SSU arrived yesterday. One quick question: does anybody know how the display settings in the various Sport-modes can be changed? I want to create own displays / screens, but cannot find the respective function within movescount.

Thanks for helping.

BR Paulchen


----------



## rdm01

Paulchen4711 said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> happy to tell that my SSU arrived yesterday. One quick question: does anybody know how the display settings in the various Sport-modes can be changed? I want to create own displays / screens, but cannot find the respective function within movescount.
> 
> Thanks for helping.
> 
> BR Paulchen


You can't at this moment. Probably in the next firmware update (September) you will be able to do.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## dbryan1970

Mine arrived this morning (UK)

Anybody know how to set the alarm

Thanks


----------



## IronP

Just for an information, I checked several local retail stores here in switzerland and none of them have the SSU. It will be only available by end of the month......but not confirmed.


----------



## WEM

I'm the owners club now too


----------



## Hecke

fyi, there is a survey on the Suunto website asking for feedback and feature requests for the Spartan:
http://suunto.fluidsurveys.com/surveys/suunto/spartan-survey/
YEAH! They included the Spartan horizontal


----------



## Zirconn

Got it a few hours ago.
I'd say SSU is in a way poorer state than Ambit 1 was at release date.

Issues i found:
It rebooted a few times while I was playing with menus and charging at the same time.
It's charging very slowly but that might be some battery calibration issue.
The activities are not syncing with movescount.com. I removed all the ones I don't want but I still see those on the watch itself.
Various issues with selectors (like month and day) not showing during initial setup but that was before the software update.
Software update reset the watch settings despite Suuntolink asking me to logon in order to keep them

What I knew about before getting it but I still consider pretty annoying:
The missing Android application support
The inability to customize activities 

I'll really give it a spin tomorrow and see how stable it is during normal use.


----------



## paul1928

Some of you may be interested in a preview (I don't dare call it a full review) I've written up about the SSU: http://www.trailrunmag.com/2016/08/17/preview-tech-test-suunto-spartan-ultra/


----------



## bruceames

Well that's the best review by far that I've seen yet. It seems so far that the consensus is that the GPS reception is somewhere between the Vertical and A3P, but closer to the A3P. Is it "close enough"? Well for me that remains to be seen and there is the likelihood that it will be improved with future updates and the Glonass update (BTW, why won't the A3P get that update if it has a compatible chip.?

A little OT, but you say a calibrated foot pot is most accurate of all, in terms of pacing and total distance. Is that the case in hilly trail runs as well? If you use a foot pod will you still get the GPS track? Is the GPS distance the only metric you lose?


----------



## Larry115

Any new ultra owners experiencing long software time from v1.0.18 to v1.1.24?


----------



## paul1928

Thanks @bruceames.  It was only meant to be a quick preview but I just kept writing...

I should've been clearer with my foot pod message: My experience (and fellrnr's evidence) is that a calibrated foot pod still beats GPS for pace _on road_. My run home from work is 13km on concrete bike path, goes through tunnels, under bridges and sections hanging underneath raised freeway. If I do a snowball run with "increase speed 5s/km each 1km" I find the footpod is more accurate (when compared to how I feel I'm running and the power output from my Stryd) than GPS.


----------



## gimegime

bruceames said:


> Well that's the best review by far that I've seen yet. It seems so far that the consensus is that the GPS reception is somewhere between the Vertical and A3P, but closer to the A3P. Is it "close enough"? Well for me that remains to be seen and there is the likelihood that it will be improved with future updates and the Glonass update (BTW, why won't the A3P get that update if it has a compatible chip.?
> 
> A little OT, but you say a calibrated foot pot is most accurate of all, in terms of pacing and total distance. Is that the case in hilly trail runs as well? If you use a foot pod will you still get the GPS track? Is the GPS distance the only metric you lose?


I use a footpod all the time and it's a yes to all your questions. You get the GPS track but your pacing and distance is via the pod. GPS is too variable to pick up subtle changes in pace.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

paul1928 said:


> Some of you may be interested in a preview (I don't dare call it a full review) I've written up about the SSU: http://www.trailrunmag.com/2016/08/17/preview-tech-test-suunto-spartan-ultra/


Yeah great read. Definitely seeing a starting to see a trend now in terms of GPS quality across a number reports. And it's what I expected, not as good as the A3P but better than competitors.

Ray also commented on responsiveness to changes in pace. Really liking what I am seeing now.

Thanks again

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

Not sure if you haven't seen this yet but with the latest firmware update Suunto announced upcoming release features.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## newtonfb

gimegime said:


> Not sure if you haven't seen this yet but with the latest firmware update Suunto announced upcoming release features.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm confused.... shouldn't the personal best and age group comparisons be apart of moves count and available to everyone using a Ambit series too? That better not be Spartan only, that would make no sense. Most of that should be on the moves count software side.....


----------



## gimegime

newtonfb said:


> I'm confused.... shouldn't the personal best and age group comparisons be apart of moves count and available to everyone using a Ambit series too? That better not be Spartan only, that would make no sense. Most of that should be on the moves count software side.....


I think it is Movescount like you say, as yes it wouldn't make sense, but the PBs likely display on the watch. I thought it sounded similar to what Garmin do now. There is something in the slide deck about it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WEM

Hi,
some impression playing around yesterday evening: I like the design: smooth and poor. It feels like a lot smaller than the ambit2 on my arm.
The touch works better than expected. No need to use the buttons. There are some funny things: how to exit options menu before starting training with touch?
major missing features for me: customization of sport modes, waypoint notification/as the crow flies distance in navigation mode, barograph, android support

Gesendet von meinem SM-T815 mit Tapatalk


----------



## borgelkranz

Some asked for GPX comparisons a while back.
Yesterday, I and two friends compared the SSU, the Ambit2R and the Forerunner 235. Unfortunately I cannot post a link at my current post count.

Personally I come from the Ambit2R and would say that her GPS accuracy was better. Hard to say in this comparison, because the battery of the Ambit was empty near the end of the run...
In the end however all the distances and paces were virtually the same. 

Also, in my opinion, high accuracy matters in training, e.g, when doing intervals. And no GPS watch can beat a surveyed track like a 400m course...


----------



## borgelkranz

Teal: SSU
Pink: Forerunner 235
Grean: Ambit2R

















In the next, SSU is really off (about 10m):


----------



## edit0r

My first impressions


The GOOD: 
1. very nice design, simple, minimalist... clean lines
2. the wrist strap is silicon, very smooth, very comfortable, very nice to the touch... is the same kind of material/texture that you can find on the Polar A300 wrist strap.
3. the wrist strap does not get white(ish) when in contact with chlorine from the pool like the Fenix 3 HR does. 
4. the buttons feedback, strictly hardware, are better than the ones from Polar V800 but the Fenix 3 HR buttons feedback are the best in my opinion. 
What is helping Suunto a lot when it comes to button feedback is that you can enable the vibration when the buttons are pushed... that enhances the button feedback a lot putting it in the front seat with the Fenix 3 HR... but it drains the battery a bit more. 
5. the watch faces are nice but I would have liked a lot more to choose from
6. the screen is nice, the colours are a bit more vibrant compared to the Fenix 3 HR but not by much, the light is nice and does lit the screen evenly, no dark spots, not bright spots.
7. the HR data transfer when you get out of the pool is very fast compared to the Fenix 3 HR
8. after a period of time it turns the touch off with the watch seconds.... enters sleep mode. You can wake it with the push of a button.
9. Because the buttons are not marked on the side of the watch, It's a bit tricky to operate it till you learn the buttons. But I like it this way because it does helps with a cleaner design.






The BAD:
1. At this point in time you can't sync your moves via BT/Android phones... so it's cable only... I understand that the android app is not ready but they could at least facilitate syncing via BT
2. It does not have wi-fi and I miss that from my Fenix 3 HR, mostly because the sync is very fast and trouble free. 1 button press and everything is done in 8-15 seconds.
3. It takes quite a long time to save the workout compared to the Fenix 3 HR and V800... 
4. It does count your steps but it lacks in this department.. the steps are not transferred to Movescount so you can see the steps in the calendar. Suunto should work a bit on this area because I bet they would sell more devices and push people to walk more. Yes, I know this is a training watch but these are simple/easy things to implement given the potent hardware.
5. After update I had to enter all the settings again... the update wiped the watch... no biggie but annoying none the list... I guess it was a bug...
6. No alarm clock... I know that it will come but come on Suunto... 
7. As of now it's extremely limited when it comes to workout screen customisation
8. You can't set a custom pool size... Major problem for me... I hope they add this very soon



Wishes and thoughts
- I wish it would had a litte more screen resolution... it would have helped with the analog watch faces
- I wish the screen would reflect the light more/better, like Polar V800 screen does. It's a bit better than the Fenix 3 HR when it comes to reading the watch screen in dimm light (without using the backlit of course) but it does not performs as good as the V800. Judging by my Fenix and my SSU the color screen reflective display technology needs to improve.
- I would have liked a full round screen and not the flat tire type as in Motorola 360 
- I would have liked the watch faces to be more customisable
- I miss the dedicated "back" button that I have on Fenix 3 HR and V800.




It's a nice watch so far I haven't seen any bugs, it was stable... the menu was not very intuitive on some instances.... but it could just be me not getting used to the menu system.
They have to work really hard to get this watch to a higher level... right not is pretty basic... but it has potential.


----------



## rdm01

edit0r said:


> My first impressions
> 
> The GOOD:
> 1. very nice design, simple, minimalist... clean lines
> 2. the wrist strap is silicon, very smooth, very comfortable, very nice to the touch... is the same kind of material/texture that you can find on the Polar A300 wrist strap.
> 3. the wrist strap does not get white(ish) when in contact with chlorine from the pool like the Fenix 3 HR does.
> 4. the buttons feedback, strictly hardware, are better than the ones from Polar V800 but the Fenix 3 HR buttons feedback are the best in my opinion.
> What is helping Suunto a lot when it comes to button feedback is that you can enable the vibration when the buttons are pushed... that enhances the button feedback a lot putting it in the front seat with the Fenix 3 HR... but it drains the battery a bit more.
> 5. the watch faces are nice but I would have liked a lot more to choose from
> 6. the screen is nice, the colours are a bit more vibrant compared to the Fenix 3 HR but not by much, the light is nice and does lit the screen evenly, no dark spots, not bright spots.
> 7. the HR data transfer when you get out of the pool is very fast compared to the Fenix 3 HR
> 8. after a period of time it turns the touch off with the watch seconds.... enters sleep mode. You can wake it with the push of a button.
> 9. Because the buttons are not marked on the side of the watch, It's a bit tricky to operate it till you learn the buttons. But I like it this way because it does helps with a cleaner design.
> 
> The BAD:
> 1. At this point in time you can't sync your moves via BT/Android phones... so it's cable only... I understand that the android app is not ready but they could at least facilitate syncing via BT
> 2. It does not have wi-fi and I miss that from my Fenix 3 HR, mostly because the sync is very fast and trouble free. 1 button press and everything is done in 8-15 seconds.
> 3. It takes quite a long time to save the workout compared to the Fenix 3 HR and V800...
> 4. It does count your steps but it lacks in this department.. the steps are not transferred to Movescount so you can see the steps in the calendar. Suunto should work a bit on this area because I bet they would sell more devices and push people to walk more. Yes, I know this is a training watch but these are simple/easy things to implement given the potent hardware.
> 5. After update I had to enter all the settings again... the update wiped the watch... no biggie but annoying none the list... I guess it was a bug...
> 6. No alarm clock... I know that it will come but come on Suunto...
> 7. As of now it's extremely limited when it comes to workout screen customisation
> 8. You can't set a custom pool size... Major problem for me... I hope they add this very soon
> 
> Wishes and thoughts
> - I wish it would had a litte more screen resolution... it would have helped with the analog watch faces
> - I wish the screen would reflect the light more/better, like Polar V800 screen does. It's a bit better than the Fenix 3 HR when it comes to reading the watch screen in dimm light (without using the backlit of course) but it does not performs as good as the V800. Judging by my Fenix and my SSU the color screen reflective display technology needs to improve.
> - I would have liked a full round screen and not the flat tire type as in Motorola 360
> - I would have liked the watch faces to be more customisable
> - I miss the dedicated "back" button that I have on Fenix 3 HR and V800.
> 
> It's a nice watch so far I haven't seen any bugs, it was stable... the menu was not very intuitive on some instances.... but it could just be me not getting used to the menu system.
> They have to work really hard to get this watch to a higher level... right not is pretty basic... but it has potential.


So at the end you bought it  I wish you have a good experience with it!

deporteporvida.com


----------



## edit0r

rdm01 said:


> So at the end you bought it  I wish you have a good experience with it!
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Nope... my wife bought it to me as a present.
She heard me saying that I cancelled the order but after she have seen me countless times reading about it she thought that she would make me a nice surprise and she pre-ordered it and bought it without me knowing it.

I have to admit it was a EXTREMELY NICE surprise.

I really like the watch design.
I am a bit sad that it's not quite ready... the watch (web services, android app) needs to develop a lot more to make this watch shine... but now that I have it I only need to wait and hope for the best 

Thank you for the wishes @rdm01


----------



## XCJagge

Was glonass on or off in Forerunner 235? That SSU 10m error by the river is just the kind of issue that may became rare with glonass. Forerunner nailed that, but it did cut corners quite a lot in second image, that part is not very impressive with glonass on.


----------



## dcrainmaker

Larry115 said:


> Any new ultra owners experiencing long software time from v1.0.18 to v1.1.24?


It happened to me, I had waited like 20 minutes and nothing was happening. So I did what it said not to do which is to pull the plug and then it still did nothing. I then just manually reset it and it redid the upgrade and was fine.


----------



## borgelkranz

XCJagge said:


> Was glonass on or off in Forerunner 235? That SSU 10m error by the river is just the kind of issue that may became rare with glonass. Forerunner nailed that, but it did cut corners quite a lot in second image, that part is not very impressive with glonass on.


Yes, the Forerunner had GLONASS enabled.


----------



## Teriemer

paul1928 said:


> Thanks @bruceames.  ... My experience (and fellrnr's evidence) is that a calibrated foot pod still beats GPS for pace _on road_. ...


Is this still the case with SSU? Or does the SSU update instant pace fast enough to be used in structured pace trainings?

Also - by using the footpod - pace comes from the footpod, but distance does too. That's a bummer as I see it, since I'd like to see pace from footpod and distance from GPS (which is great for distance measuring). In additon, footpod should also be autocalibrated, based on GPS data. I know the latest firmware on A3 does this (Garmin does too and it works very good), so maybe SSU does the same? One major bummer though; A3 can only pair to 1 footpod. So if you have more than one pair of shoes, you have to move the FP everytime you change shoe...()!&! One can only have 1 footpod paired at a time.


----------



## gimegime

Teriemer said:


> Is this still the case with SSU? Or does the SSU update instant pace fast enough to be used in structured pace trainings?
> 
> Also - by using the footpod - pace comes from the footpod, but distance does too. That's a bummer as I see it, since I'd like to see pace from footpod and distance from GPS (which is great for distance measuring). In additon, footpod should also be autocalibrated, based on GPS data. I know the latest firmware on A3 does this (Garmin does too and it works very good), so maybe SSU does the same? One major bummer though; A3 can only pair to 1 footpod. So if you have more than one pair of shoes, you have to move the FP everytime you change shoe...()!&! One can only have 1 footpod paired at a time.


I disagree on auto-calibrate via GPS as you never know exactly how accurate the GPS distance is. You calibrate over a set known distance. It would annoy me no end if the footpod kept recalibrating again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Teriemer

gimegime said:


> I disagree on auto-calibrate via GPS as you never know exactly how accurate the GPS distance is. You calibrate over a set known distance. It would annoy me no end if the footpod kept recalibrating again.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You have a point, I reckon that, but the latest calibration routine on Garmins is on par with several track calibration test I did. The CF calculated from GPS is within +/- 5 points (out of 1000) on an average pace. It's indeed very spot on (for me).


----------



## bruceames

If the footpod continuously recalibrates based on GPS then the footpod distance = GPS distance, no?


----------



## gimegime

bruceames said:


> If the footpod continuously recalibrates based on GPS then the footpod distance = GPS distance, no?


Which it doesn't as far as I am aware

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gimegime

I think it would be useful, only if you could permanently override with a known distance calibration. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Say, am I totally crazy, review- and social media-wise, in not wanting to do e.g. a detailed look at the Spartan's sports modes when it's only a few weeks until those become customizable, anyways (and while they are still changing constantly)?


----------



## johan6504

White is Spartan Ultra and blue is tomtom runner. Total distance 6.85 Km for Tomtom and 6.78 for SSU. Ok but doesn't seem to be as good tomtom runner, V800 or Ambit3. Razor sharp is not the word I would use...


----------



## johan6504

I made a trailrun with the new Suunto Spartan Ultra yesterday. I have a sync setup so that Movescount sync all activities to Strava. In Movescount I get an Ascent of 276 meter but after syncing, Strava shows that my Ascent was 155 meters. It looks like the barometric/watch Ascent doesn't get transferred to Strava for some reason. With my other watch (Polar V800) I always got correct (same ascent in watch and Strava). Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## wydim

while waiting for more updates and reviews for the SSU, I was reading about the future of smartwatches and android wear on the internet the other day and it struck me :

what do we like about Suunto ? ruggedness design and movescount plateform (up for debate). What we don't like from Suunto ? they're somewhat slow to implement features that are already existent in previous watches (alarm, customizable sport mode, android connection, notifications).

For me the perfect watch would be a Suunto Spartan Ultra, running Android Wear. And everything that you see in the actual SSU would be accessible from an app on the watch. Imagine the beautiful design of the SSU, battery life and precision instruments (GPS, baro, etc..) with the already mature Android Wear interface, connections with smartphone and other app and functionnality enabled.

how hard would it be for Suunto to do that ?


----------



## Sir McKey

No countdown?
No storm alarm?
No baro trend?
No baro graph?
No alarm?
No moon phase?
No coordinates readable?

Well, I´am not so sure about the spartan ultra...
I expected more of the basics that made Suunto THE brand!?
We´ll see what the future brings...


----------



## Joakim Agren

Sir McKey said:


> No countdown?
> No storm alarm?
> No baro trend?
> No baro graph?
> No alarm?
> No moon phase?
> No coordinates readable?
> 
> Well, I´am not so sure about the spartan ultra...
> I expected more of the basics that made Suunto THE brand!?
> We´ll see what the future brings...


You should complete this survey: HELP US TO MAKE SPARTAN STRONGER - 0%

I complained about the same stuff you do! The more that complain about this the better chance it will be implemented!

As it stands now I am not interested in this Spartan Ultra product from Suunto! Still happy with my Garmin Fenix 3 Sapphire!b-)


----------



## tichy

I suspect here is strava the issue. AFAIR my Garmin Oregon 550 GPX files (built-in barometer) got mangled as well: I have a barometric profile active and strava still shows gained/lost height...


----------



## fotomas

I made a city/trail run with my friend yesterday. My friend was using a Garmin Fenix 3 and I had the Spartan Ultra on my left arm and the Ambit 3 Peak on my right.

Below one can see that the Spartan lost it pretty bad when entering the forrest. The Fenix and Ambit are very similar, the orange track is the Fenix, pink the Ambit and Spartan in blue.

One can see that as soon as there is some trees Spartan goes off track completely.








The first kilometer both the Spartan and Ambit behaved better than the Fenix, keeping the corners a bit sharper.








But as soon as we left the populated area en entered the forest (still on a road wide enough for two cars to meet) with high pines Spartan starts wandering.









The Ambit got the total track to 9.43 km the Spartan 8.96 km and the Fenix 9.3?. That is a 5% difference between Ambit and Spartan!!
(I will supply the gpx files if anyone wants to dig further into this.)

That is not good enough for me but I have hope that it will get better. If Garmin can do it without the antenna bump hopefully Suunto can.

(Is there anyone else missing the GPX fix beep beginning a activity?)


----------



## johan6504

I am seeing the exact same behavior as you. When running on the mountain ridge I got very good GPS tracking but as soon as I got under trees, there is a sudden distance diff compared to my V800 or Tomtom runner as a result of Spartan Ultra loosing track pretty badly. Suunto has to adress this ASAP. Otherwise we will just end up with another useless top of the line whatch...


----------



## Sir McKey

Joakim Agren said:


> You should complete this survey: HELP US TO MAKE SPARTAN STRONGER - 0%
> 
> I complained about the same stuff you do! The more that complain about this the better chance it will be implemented!
> 
> As it stands now I am not interested in this Spartan Ultra product from Suunto! Still happy with my Garmin Fenix 3 Sapphire!b-)


filled the sheet out and hoping the best :-!


----------



## edit0r

Just got home and synced my pool swim made this morning... Spartan did not recognized my swimming styles.... I had no problem with V800 or Fenix 3 HR... That is sad...

Did you know that when you take your watch off your wrist and put it on the table... in a few minutes the screen turns off completely to save power... the idea is nice but I would like to have control over this feature.

With a 2.2km pool swim and 10k walking, 10-15 times a day checking the time, pushing buttons for maybe 10-15 minutes in total (light was on during this time at 15%)... the battery went down 14% in 24 hours... a bit much if you ask me...

L.E : completed the survey also... did wrote a lot of suggestions and let's hope for the best


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## NickYanakiev

First proper run with the SSU: around 12km, over 1 hour of running. I had my Scosche Rhythm+ paired to the watch- it all worked like a charm! Could not be happier- including GPS/instant pace.SSU:

https://www.strava.com/activities/679729407/overview

My friend's Ambit 3 Peak:
https://www.strava.com/activities/679731383

Let me know your thoughts!
P.S Just completed the survey help us make Spartan stronger;


----------



## dcrainmaker

tichy said:


> I suspect here is strava the issue. AFAIR my Garmin Oregon 550 GPX files (built-in barometer) got mangled as well: I have a barometric profile active and strava still shows gained/lost height...


Right now it's not listed in the Strava database, thus, Strava will automatically 'correct' elevation data.

I shot over a note today and they're getting it added in. Usually from the time I do that until it's added in, takes about a day.


----------



## iapyx

Hmm, owning an Ambit 2 I got the itch as soon as I heard that Suunto would come with this new watch. Along the way I started losing the itch. And after reading the latest post from those who just received it, the itch has not returned. Maybe a second generation SSU might give me the itch again.  It's quite a lot of money. And it lacks so much. Besides I wonder if the touchscreen and colourscreen is something I would want. The Ambit still does it all for me. That in combination with movescount and strava makes it a watch to use for quite a bit longer. Until they release the successor: the SSI, the Suunto Spartan Itch haha


----------



## bruceames

Damn, just what I was afraid of. The SSU starts "wandering" when entering the tall pines. I knew it was too good to be true that Suunto would just magically come up with a bezel antenna that would pacify the form factor geeks and be on par with the A3P. Going by most of the tracks we've seen so far (and especially those in challenging areas) it's not even close and I highly doubt any number of FW updates or Glonass is going to make it "close enough", much less as good. You can't beat physics.


----------



## gimegime

wydim said:


> while waiting for more updates and reviews for the SSU, I was reading about the future of smartwatches and android wear on the internet the other day and it struck me :
> 
> what do we like about Suunto ? ruggedness design and movescount plateform (up for debate). What we don't like from Suunto ? they're somewhat slow to implement features that are already existent in previous watches (alarm, customizable sport mode, android connection, notifications).
> 
> For me the perfect watch would be a Suunto Spartan Ultra, running Android Wear. And everything that you see in the actual SSU would be accessible from an app on the watch. Imagine the beautiful design of the SSU, battery life and precision instruments (GPS, baro, etc..) with the already mature Android Wear interface, connections with smartphone and other app and functionnality enabled.
> 
> how hard would it be for Suunto to do that ?


Ray commented on a review of the Polar M600 running Android Wear that Polar had no plans to adopt Android Wear to the future V800 successor due to the hefty drain on battery. That Android Wear wasn't feasible on a top end watch.

Correct me if I got this wrong Ray

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gimegime

johan6504 said:


> I am seeing the exact same behavior as you. When running on the mountain ridge I got very good GPS tracking but as soon as I got under trees, there is a sudden distance diff compared to my V800 or Tomtom runner as a result of Spartan Ultra loosing track pretty badly. Suunto has to adress this ASAP. Otherwise we will just end up with another useless top of the line whatch...


Plenty more people reporting GPS tracking just behind that of the A3P. I don't you can draw conclusions from 1 run. Will be interesting to see fellrnr's testing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gimegime

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Say, am I totally crazy, review- and social media-wise, in not wanting to do e.g. a detailed look at the Spartan's sports modes when it's only a few weeks until those become customizable, anyways (and while they are still changing constantly)?


I have appreciated the mini-reviews/vids as it gave me insight that I didn't otherwise have. But in a months time no one will remember these and people will be looking for the in depth review.

I would wait, doesn't seem to make sense. I have liked the vids you have done on the SSU btw

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## crawler2040

I really cant understand the way suunto is doing things with this watch. I own 3 ambits 1 2 and 3 never wanted to let the first two go, and i was expecting that this watch would at least be on pair with my ambit3 but no, suunto decided to give less features, change form factor giving up accuracy for a nicer look, and then ask us with a survey to tell them if we really want the missing features?! Come on!! To make it stronger? Really? all the missing features should ve been there and THEN ask us what could be improved. They have had time to learn from ambit series, and should know their audience by know. I am really dissapointed. 

Enviado desde mi GT-P5100 mediante Tapatalk


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## Ingo

So this is turning into one big expensive public beta test! Heck did I badly want the SSU when it got announced only to slowly realize that Suunto possibly lost it with this one. Probably a good time to start shopping for an A3P Sapphire, or maybe even two A3P for the price of one SSU because either the A3P price will increase again or it'll be discontinued at some point. I guess the A3P was called "Peak" for a reason ;-)

Suunto, didn't learn much from Nokia's rise & fall, did you?


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## Jaka83

I hope Suunto gets back on track ASAP (some pun intended) and fixes this watch before it all blows up in their face. Let's hope the next FW update will help, otherwise many of us will skip another round of upgrades.


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## newtonfb

Not sure why everyone is upset about accuracy and lack of features, it's not like the watch cost $700......


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## NickYanakiev

I reported the problem to Suunto support over the phone and submitted a support request. Let's make them aware of this issue and see if they can do anything about it. If not, my watch is going back...


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## j--l

dcrainmaker said:


> Right now it's not listed in the Strava database, thus, Strava will automatically 'correct' elevation data.
> 
> I shot over a note today and they're getting it added in. Usually from the time I do that until it's added in, takes about a day.


Where is the Strava database/known device list listed? Could not find it. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Teriemer

Sad to see "just another beta" was released... With what I have seen so far (in here), I'm definitely holding on to my current unit. I really had high hopes for Suunto not going down that beta road, but as someone mentioned; the Spartan will probably first kick ass in it's second edition. Maybe that is the Sport version? Only time tell... But for now, I'm not buying, though I am/was tempted to. But I will not go through a beta process once again (like I did with F3 and 920XT - both of which has become quite good today about a year after release). 

Beta products is a showstopper for me!


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## buenosbias

Teriemer said:


> Sad to see "just another beta" was released...


The Spartan Ultra is in a beta state, indeed. So many glitches, so many missing functions. The reference height cannot be set manually above 400 m!


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## edit0r

I am not gloating or anything but I told you guys (wrote a post 2-3 weeks ago) long before the watch was out that we are gonna beta test for Suunto like we are doing for Garmin and Polar... this is how things were done for the last 2-3 years.
We are still buying their products meaning we are ok with it... and they understood that people do not mind so.... why paying a lot of testers when you can have countless more for free?

I was criticised when I told you guys that we are gonna beta test... but with every new feature for the Spartan some bugs will inevitably creep in... we will report them of course... a new patch will show up after a while with the necessary corrections and maybe a new extra feature that will probably add a new bug... and so on... for quite a while.

My disappointment is that the Suunto Spartan Ultra is missing basic features like an alarm, custom pool size, proper swim style detection, customising screens, features that they already implemented in other watches and work great... so they have the knowledge and the know how... is not like they never done them before...

Also I am disappointed that they haven't decided yet what features to implement. They haven't done any major studies on what people want in 2016 or else I can't explain myself that survey I completed yesterday.
I assume that the hardware is pretty powerful and they can do all kinds of things with it... The sad part is they don't quite know (yet) what the roadmap will be for this watch and what should be the priorities.
I would have like them to present us at launch an roadmap with the features that will be implemented in the next 6 months.

I am also sad find out that It seems that I was also right about the Spartan GPS performance... again NOT gloating... it is what is is... Hope the antenna is good enough that with some watch tweaking things will get better... at least better than the Fenix 3...

These are my opinions... feel free to comment


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## Teriemer

Well - I have made up my mind; I won't be buying as long it's a beta. Not this Spartan, nor any later released Spartans as long as they're (Suunto) stick to this strategy. 

Now don't get me wrong here, I don't want to turn this into Garmin vs. Suunto; but I think Garmin did get that right when they launched the 735XT. That watch (like or not) did work quite good from the beginning. And with the latest firmware (as of 4.20) - the watch has now become very good. Maybe Garmin learned their leason with F3 (and 920XT) - they had plenty opportunity to do that. Only the coming products will tell. 

Sadly it seems Suunto are still in process. I hope they will learn for the OHR Spartan Sport version...


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## johan6504

edit0rI agree with you on everything!
But I am also a tech geek so I get drawn to these things all the time ;-)

My guess (hope) is that Suunto as many other product developing companies, are looking into agile approaches and continuous delivery. In this world the interaction with the users is key! In order to maximize value for the company and the users implementing more functionality that necessary is not optimal, you just risk implementing features that rarely gets used. Releasing often and getting close to the users is the agile way to optimize value for both parts. This of course doesn't explain why they left out so many basic functions (I think they ran out of time) but I hope they have a plan to quickly add these things, as well as all the features we users can come up with. My only real concern here is the hardware related issues, with the lack of a sensitive enough antenna to compete with the best in the business, like Polar V800 and their own Ambit3. Lets hope they fix the GPS real soon. If they do I have high hope the rest will sort it self out. Even if it will take some time...


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## Pegasus

I'm going to give this a miss at the moment, at the price of the watch it should be fully tested and perfect out of the box.

Quite amazing how lacking it is for a high end product, the most expensive in this category.

Poor effort so far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edit0r

Teriemer said:


> Well - I have made up my mind; I won't be buying as long it's a beta. Not this Spartan, nor any later released Spartans as long as they're (Suunto) stick to this strategy.


The way I see it, this is never gonna change so before buying a new watch you have to wait at least 4-6 months from the moment the watch has been released... In the meantime constantly checking up on progress and monitor if the results are to your liking... not such a bad thing if you think about it 



Teriemer said:


> Now don't get me wrong here, I don't want to turn this into Garmin vs. Suunto; but I think Garmin did get that right when they launched the 735XT. That watch (like or not) did work quite good from the beginning. And with the latest firmware (as of 4.20) - the watch has now become very good. Maybe Garmin learned their leason with F3 (and 920XT) - they had plenty opportunity to do that. Only the coming products will tell.
> 
> Sadly it seems Suunto are still in process. I hope they will learn for the OHR Spartan Sport version...


No one will think of turning this into X versus Y but it's natural to compare products and features based on price, expectations, brand awareness, so on. Reading up a lot in the last 5 months I got the the conclusion that even Fenix 3 HR was launched with way better and more stable firmware than the older Fenix 3 at launch. They used big chunks of the Fenix 3 firmware and lots of the gained experience with the Fenix 3 to build the Fenix 3 HR. My guess is that they took the Fenix 3 HR experience even further when they created the 735XT that's why I assume it got stable and better faster and with fewer firmware updates. One example would be that the optical HR performed better on the 735XT at launch than did on the Fenix 3 HR at launch.
My only hope is that all this accumulated experience will translate in a better more stable experience for the future Garmin devices.


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## kris92

I received mine 3 days ago. Nobody here seems to complain about the display quality.
Yes definition is great. Contrast and readability are ok on outdoor. But when indoor, if you do not have sufficient light nearby, the contrast is just horrible. Compared to my Ambit 3 this is night and day. I was looking the Olympic Games yesterday evening, with not so much light around, and this was a pain to read time on the watch since I had to find the right angle to catch some light. Of course I do not want to activate backlight each time I want to read the time on my Spartan. When indoor, the most confortable time displays is the digital one with the biggest digits.
In both case, we are far far far away from official Suunto pictures. When you look at the Suunto pictures you can think the display is an AMOLED like Samsung Gear or Apple Watch. But this is truly not the case. Green, blue, yellow, orange colors are just fade out.
I tried to take picture of the Spartan display but the contrast is enhanced by my camera. And so the rendering is better than reality (but not as much as Suunto pictures ;-) )


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## Pirk

I wonder what strategy is best. Wait some months until the software is better or as Suunto did, launch now to not drown in a possible Fenix 4 launch....


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## edit0r

johan6504 said:


> My only real concern here is the hardware related issues, with the lack of a sensitive enough antenna to compete with the best in the business, like Polar V800 and their own Ambit3. Lets hope they fix the GPS real soon. If they do I have high hope the rest will sort it self out. Even if it will take some time...


When I got my V800, I hoped for the better I did not return or sold my watch... and after quite some time they proved that they had top notch hardware and expanding the watch capabilities was easy and in the end everything was done right. Now is a mature and stable watch... the downside is that it took quite a lot of time... around 1.5 years... That is quite A LOT of time...

When I got my Fenix 3 HR I also hoped for the better, did not return my watch... but after a lot of reading and lots of firmware updates I got to the conclusion that the hardware is good but NOT the GPS antenna/chipset. For instance the optical HR performance got way better now than when the watch launched meaning that if you have a good sensor to boot you can achieve the right performance with the right algorithms and proper coding.

So hoping that one day your beloved watch will be great is a hit or miss affair as far as I am concerned... some watches turn out fine in the end if you have lots of patience some never will. What is clear to me is that if you don't have good hardware things will never go the right way not matter how good the programmers are.

I am hoping that the Spartan will be the GREATEST Suunto ever made... let's see how it turns out to be in 1 year time


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## edit0r

Pirk said:


> I wonder what strategy is best. Wait some months until the software is better or as Suunto did, launch now to not drown in a possible Fenix 4 launch....


Yes, it's also a strategy to launch the watch, people will buy it, Fenix 4 will shows up in 4-6 months time but most people will find it difficult to shell another 500-700 euros for a new watch... so they will stay with Suunto.
Even if some will return the watch and buy an Fenix 4 most of them will stay on the Spartan for lots of reasons : the return window expired, the watch got better in the meantime, they read up on various Fenix 4 issues at launch and decide to wait some more... and so on


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## stelpanta

hello to everyone ! today I relieve my suunto Spartan all black titanium and I can't do the firmware update in my Mac and moveslink..there is a message with a problem with strava..can you please know something to do? sorry for my English I'm from Greece .[/QUOTE]


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## rdm01

stelpanta said:


> hello to everyone ! today I relieve my suunto Spartan all black titanium and I can't do the firmware update in my Mac and moveslink..there is a message with a problem with strava..can you please know something to do? sorry for my English I'm from Greece .


[/QUOTE]
You have to use Suuntolink instead Moveslink

deporteporvida.com


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## edit0r

kris92 said:


> Nobody here seems to complain about the display quality.
> Yes definition is great. Contrast and readability are ok on outdoor. But when indoor, if you do not have sufficient light nearby, the contrast is just horrible. Compared to my Ambit 3 this is night and day. I was looking the Olympic Games yesterday evening, with not so much light around, and this was a pain to read time on the watch since I had to find the right angle to catch some light. Of course I do not want to activate backlight each time I want to read the time on my Spartan. When indoor, the most confortable time displays is the digital one with the biggest digits.
> In both case, we are far far far away from official Suunto pictures. When you look at the Suunto pictures you can think the display is an AMOLED like Samsung Gear or Apple Watch. But this is truly not the case. Green, blue, yellow, orange colors are just fade out.
> I tried to take picture of the Spartan display but the contrast is enhanced by my camera. And so the rendering is better than reality (but not as much as Suunto pictures ;-) )


A few pages back I said and I quote "I wish the screen would reflect the light more/better, like Polar V800 screen does. It's a bit better than the Fenix 3 HR when it comes to reading the watch screen in dimm light (without using the backlit of course) but it does not performs as good as the V800. Judging by my Fenix and my SSU the color screen reflective display technology needs to improve."

The Fenix 3/Fenix 3 HR has the same type of display as the Suunto Spartan... more or less... I find the colors on Spartan a bit better and the light reflects a bit better on the Spartan... but it's far from optimal/ideal. Suunto realized that most people will complain so they tried to help readability by turning the light on as much as possible. Looking at the Fenix and at the Suunto I must say that the companies aren't at fault here... my guess is that the technology is not that good at the moment or else I can't explain the similar display on these devices... It can also be explained but cutting costs but I don't think it's about that in a 600-700 euro watch.

Suunto presented the early pictures (renderings) with such a vivid display that you can swear that the display is an amoled type at least as you pointed out perfectly. Even Garmin renderings do not reflect the real quality of the display... many complained to Garmin forums as well. Marketing these days is about inserting nice little lies at the right time to lure as many customers in... and... it seems to work 

When I went from Polar V800 to the Fenix I realised after a few days that I actually rarely used the backlit on my V800 in dimm light because the display reflected the light so good that it was rarely necessary... With the Fenix, although annoying at first, I admit, I learned to use the light more frequently and of course I adapted in time.... With the Spartan it was nothing new for me... I am well adjusted from the Fenix  ... not that things are ok this way... is just the way it is...

One more thing... the visibility is so poor in dimm light (without using the backlit of course) on my Fenix 3 that I've never used an analog face... always digital... always the one with the biggest numbers... and the numbers need to be white on dark background or black on while background... any other color for the numbers reduces visibility


----------



## stelpanta

You have to use Suuntolink instead Moveslink

deporteporvida.com[/QUOTE]
I use suuntolink as I use the usb cable but after that there is a message for a strava error and I can't do the firmware update in moveslink ..! :-(


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## marcomueller

My first test with the Suunto Spartan Ultra was not bad . Trail Running in the open and dense forest with cloudy sky in the Tyrolean mountains . The GPS reception of the SSU is the same in some cases even better than with my Suunto Ambit 3 Peak.


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## peacemaker885

edit0r said:


> Yes, it's also a strategy to launch the watch, people will buy it, Fenix 4 will shows up in 4-6 months time but most people will find it difficult to shell another 500-700 euros for a new watch... so they will stay with Suunto.
> Even if some will return the watch and buy an Fenix 4 most of them will stay on the Spartan for lots of reasons : the return window expired, the watch got better in the meantime, they read up on various Fenix 4 issues at launch and decide to wait some more... and so on


Garmin has its own set of buyers as Suunto does.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


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## edit0r

peacemaker885 said:


> Garmin has its own set of buyers as Suunto does.


True!
But they are also in a continuous race to get more and more customers... also meaning stealing as many as possible from their competitors


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## edit0r

marcomueller said:


> My first test with the Suunto Spartan Ultra was not bad . Trail Running in the open and dense forest with cloudy sky in the Tyrolean mountains . The GPS reception of the SSU is the same in some cases even better than with my Suunto Ambit 3 Peak.


Good to hear that! 
I mean no disrespect and please don't take it the wrong way but when people before you complained about the Spartan GPS performance in the forest (and brought proof to show us the problem) and your first post is saying that is "_not bad_" and "_is the same in some cases even better than with my Suunto Ambit 3 Peak_" but you don't bring any proof you kinda determine us to ignore your feedback.

Can you please bring some proof that can back up the claims?

Thank you !


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## HIKESOLO

It is painful reading this thread.


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## arnea

It's not beta test, it's proof of concept.


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## ixman

Hi,

Just did my second run with SSU exactly the same route. It does struggle with trees more than my beloved A3P Blue.
I see big spikes in pace i.e. from 4:35 min/km to 6:10 min/km for a couple of seconds then it looks like it tries to compensate but than again it fails again when going in the tree area. My concern is that is a hardware issue. The antenna is just not as sensitive as A3P. Will give more feedback after few more runs.

Regards,
George


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## stelpanta

ok,everything ok with my suunto Spartan firmware update ! the watch is fantastic !!


----------



## Rebnats

Hi, Not wishing to rain on your parade, is the screen shot in sleep mode under full sun or is that the brightest it can achieve.
Also does the screen stay on or does it just go into sleep mode after a few seconds of inactivity. Any chance you or anyone else post up real world clock faces etc of the display under different lighting conditions. Many Thanks in advance.


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## gousias

HIKESOLO said:


> It is painful reading this thread.


Yes, indeed! At the end someone could miss the point! On the other hand, more information provided from every member would help for better decisions!
Nevertheless, I may like this watch and I might had decided to purchase it after my first SUUNTO Core Alu Deep Black, but I am uncertain now, since the list of problems and function that are missing!
I would like to see a similar or a newer version of this coming out with added features such as:
HR optical
Storm alarm
Sunrise/Sunset alarm
Moonrise/Moonset alarm
Moonphases
Tides
24/7 health monitoring (pulses, sleep)

Though I do gym training, swimming, cycling, also I go for sailing and travel abroad often.

(Now why are you telling us these, someone could ask? I hope SUUNTO would read these!!! He He!)


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## IronP

OMG....!
Is there someone that bought the SSU and actually liked it??
Reading all this latest entries, it seems awful!! And we are just in the first week of sales!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zvojan

I made my decision. I will not by this watch. I really wanted to love her, but.....half of the function, half accuracy, doubled price compared with A3P. ...


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## wydim

I loved my Ambit1 and now ambit2 and I really like the Suunto ecosystem, But I too will not buy this watch, at least not in 2016. Correct me if I'm wrong but even the original Ambit1 had customizable sport modes at launch ? I think it's really a case of launching too soon because they made promises but can't keep them ! Missing an alarm feature ? is it 1923 already ??


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## WEM

IronP said:


> OMG....!
> Is there someone that bought the SSU and actually liked it??
> Reading all this latest entries, it seems awful!! And we are just in the first week of sales!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I bought it and I did know about missing features from provided specs, presentations, posts and answers.
I like the design a lot: clean/pure, it feels smaller and lighter than my ambit2. touch works good.
Provided functionality works IMHO fine. There are bugs but they do not affect core functionalty.
First tracks looks also good. My impression is even better than A2. But it's too early for final conclusions.

If Suunto deliveres the features promesed and bug fixes with SW updates than I'm happy.


----------



## rdm01

IronP said:


> OMG....!
> Is there someone that bought the SSU and actually liked it??
> Reading all this latest entries, it seems awful!! And we are just in the first week of sales!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Me ;-) And you know what? Mine is not at home yet. Tomorrow will be delivered.

There's not perfect watch out there and I think it will never been. Ambit3, Polar V800 and older Garmin's are pretty accurate. F3 and Vertical are a step down talking about GPS accuracy but they are usable.

If Spartan accuracy is good or usable and the missing features will be added in future firmware updates why we're blaming? Sometimes looks like buying a new toy is a choice between life or death.

Do you like how it looks like new Spartan and got the money? If yes buy it and if enjoy it. If not, or you need the best GPS accuracy and all the missing features, don't buy it.

Peace and love ;-)

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Jaka83

IronP said:


> OMG....!
> Is there someone that bought the SSU and actually liked it??
> Reading all this latest entries, it seems awful!! And we are just in the first week of sales!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Most of the people that bought it are either not following this thread/forum or are out enjoying the watch.

I'm at 60:40 for buying the watch ... still a bit of a doubt, but then again, the GPS accuracy can't be worse than my existing Ambit1. I know Suunto will add functionality. Might drop my local store an e-mail and ask them if they have it in stock - go check it out in person, like a semi blind date.


----------



## johan6504

This is today's run with Spartan Ultra and it is an absolut disaster. It is even worse than what I experienced with the early fenix 3 :-(

Soaking for 15 min before start. I have done this run more than 60 times so I know exactly how long it is. It measures 6.85 Km but with SSU I only get 6.59!!!
But it is when the track looks like this I get really frustrated and sad. If Suunto doesn't have a very good answer to this I will send it back next week.


----------



## edit0r

IronP said:


> OMG....!
> Is there someone that bought the SSU and actually liked it??
> Reading all this latest entries, it seems awful!! And we are just in the first week of sales!


I like the design a lot if that counts for something. 

When I went for the first swim, my first move with my first Suunto, I discovered that I can't set the pool size... I swim in a 24m pool and the only options I have right now is 25m or 50m... no custom pool size setting.
Swimming with the supplied HR belt was fine, very comfortable, it was a pleasant surprise. It let me push pretty hard off the wall without coming off so that was a nice and pleasant surprise also. Also the screen was readable in the morning dimm light the big digits on the black background were pretty visible without turning on the backlight... I only had the default 3 lines of text... well... numbers actually.
Unfortunately I can't set up the screen for swimming the way I am used to so that is bad.
Later when I got to work I discovered that I forgot the cable at home and I tried to upload via BT and discovered that the Suunto Android app does not communicate at all with my watch... not even for a basic upload/sync...
When I got home late at night synced my move via usb cable and found out that the watch did not recognize my swimming styles at all... put 95% as freestyle and some as butterfly... completely wrong.

I mostly swim so as the watch presents itself right now I can't really use it for swimming. I will take my V800 or Fenix and use those till the Spartan firmware is mature enough to work for swimming. I've never had any problems with the V800 or Fenix recognizing my swimming styles so... at this point I blame the Spartan firmware.

That was my fist Suunto experience... As you can see it wasn't great. Because the firmware is very basic and unpolished I can't praise the watch... I simply can't...

Suunto launched an unfinished product to the market... This is nothing unheard of.... This also happened with Polar when it launched the V800.... And like I said many times before... the V800 turned out to be a great watch... but it took Polar quite a lot of time and they had top notch hardware (great GPS antenna, great GPS chipset, good screen although BW, great battery life, good sturdy case)... 
IF the SSU hardware is great (there are no info yet on the internals so there is nothing certain) then the future will be even greater for the watch.

I had the needed patience with the V800... and I will have it again with the Spartan.... with the Spartan will be easier because I have the V800 or Fenix 3 HR as backup...

You either buy the watch and use it as it is till the firmware gets improved (maybe help Suunto make it better) or wait, monitor Suunto and if the watch gets better and suits you needs buy it then...


----------



## WEM

Jaka83 said:


> Most of the people that bought it are either not following this thread/forum or are out enjoying the watch.
> 
> I'm at 60:40 for buying the watch ... still a bit of a doubt, but then again, the GPS accuracy can't be worse than my existing Ambit1. I know Suunto will add functionality. Might drop my local store an e-mail and ask them if they have it in stock - go check it out in person, like a semi blind date.





johan6504 said:


> This is today's run with Spartan Ultra and it is an absolut disaster. It is even worse than what I experienced with the early fenix 3 :-(
> 
> Soaking for 15 min before start. I have done this run more than 60 times so I know exactly how long it is. It measures 6.85 Km but with SSU I only get 6.59!!!
> But it is when the track looks like this I get really frustrated and sad. If Suunto doesn't have a very good answer to this I will send it back next week.
> 
> View attachment 9088066
> 
> 
> View attachment 9088258


25m / 6850m? 0.3%? Do you know that GPS is designed to garantee a max tollerance of 20m 3d for each position (real position is in a sphere of 20m diameter surrounding the determined position)? Only better in certain weather and surounding conditions(walls, radiation, fire/police/tv/handy). Addionaly GPS accurancy is depended of the usage of US and NATO military. If needed for military purposes, precision of civil usage is limited.
Worked a lot with GPS based distance measurements: 3-5% deviation is quite normal. better than 3% is location, weather and codition dependet and luck. Thereore you see building engineers running around with a backpack and a 1m size antenna and additional D-GPS


----------



## edit0r

rdm01 said:


> Me ;-) And you know what? Mine is not at home yet. Tomorrow will be delivered.


So this means that tomorrow we will have your test of SSU and V800 in a difficult GPS scenario? Yummy! Can't wait 

Good Luck and Thank you !


----------



## rdm01

edit0r said:


> So this means that tomorrow we will have your test of SSU and V800 in a difficult GPS scenario? Yummy! Can't wait
> 
> Good Luck and Thank you !


Yes, I'll do the first test B-)

deporteporvida.com


----------



## johan6504

Your calculation is not correct
6850-6590=260
260/6580=0.0395 that is almost 4% diff in distance from my $40 TomTom runner...

But that isn't the biggest issue. The fact that the Spartan Ultra cant give me my correct location is really upsetting. I have never seen anything like this before, and I have tried a lot of different watches over the years. Sadly this is by far the worst result I have ever seen.


----------



## rumbletum

Has anyone got any idea how I can factory reset or just restart this watch from the watch itself? My computer won't see it through SunntoLink, my iPhone will see it but not pair with it... Getting so frustrated now grr!


----------



## Jaka83

There must be a combination of long pressing the buttons ... since there are only three of them, you don't have many options to try.

long press top
long press middle
long press bottom
long press top and middle
long press top and bottom
long press middle and bottom
long press all three

Seven options. Or maybe it involves the touch screen as well.


----------



## WEM

johan6504 said:


> Your calculation is not correct
> 6850-6590=260
> 260/6580=0.0395 that is almost 4% diff in distance from my $40 TomTom runner...
> 
> But that isn't the biggest issue. The fact that the Spartan Ultra cant give me my correct location is really upsetting. I have never seen anything like this before, and I have tried a lot of different watches over the years. Sadly this is by far the worst result I have ever seen.


oh that's correct. but 4% is in the normal 3-5% deviation also...


----------



## iapyx

Ingo said:


> So this is turning into one big expensive public beta test! Heck did I badly want the SSU when it got announced only to slowly realize that Suunto possibly lost it with this one. Probably a good time to start shopping for an A3P Sapphire, or maybe even two A3P for the price of one SSU because either the A3P price will increase again or it'll be discontinued at some point. I guess the A3P was called "Peak" for a reason ;-)
> 
> Suunto, didn't learn much from Nokia's rise & fall, did you?


 Exactly!


----------



## iapyx

stelpanta said:


> ok,everything ok with my suunto Spartan firmware update ! the watch is fantastic !!


Ooh how I don't like the design.
It's from the 70's.
I am so glad that I have a Suunto......... Ambit 2


----------



## rumbletum

Jaka83 said:


> There must be a combination of long pressing the buttons ... since there are only three of them, you don't have many options to try.
> 
> long press top
> long press middle
> long press bottom
> long press top and middle
> long press top and bottom
> long press middle and bottom
> long press all three
> 
> Seven options. Or maybe it involves the touch screen as well.


Thanks have been trying that, but not really had any luck. Closest I've got is to get a screen that makes it look like its trying to force a Software Update, but nothing happens when I connect it to my computer.


----------



## Zirconn

rumbletum said:


> Thanks have been trying that, but not really had any luck. Closest I've got is to get a screen that makes it look like its trying to force a Software Update, but nothing happens when I connect it to my computer.


Replace the micro-usb cable
Use a different usb port
Rclick on suuntolink and use run as administrator

If still no go, return it.


----------



## Teriemer

rdm01 said:


> ... If Spartan accuracy is good or usable ...


It's just that it's so hard moving backwards... Why isn't technology moving forward? Or at least stay on the same level...

As I see it; one of Suunto peers has been the accuracy and consistency with their ambit line. With the current SUU, they start to jeopardize this. That is risky business playing around with their market lead parameter! In addition, if you need a watch with a million features, the competition a way ahead if you ask me. So I'm not buying the "wait a bit and the features will come" - maybe the accuracy too.

Damn it Suunto - don't jump the fancy glancy wagon. Please stick to your solid hardware and performance and make it work before releasing lots of other stuff. I guess all I'm saying, is that I'm frustrated to see the SSU is not an Ambit in a new fancy design. If it was, I would have bought the watch already...

Please don't get me wrong! The SSU at current state just isn't what I have thought and hoped for and I think that sucks...

PS
Imagine what will happen if Garmin or Polar released their next high end watches now...?! Think of a F4 or a 935XT or a Polar V900. Where would that put SSU...?!


----------



## bruceames

WEM said:


> oh that's correct. but 4% is in the normal 3-5% deviation also...


I'm sorry, but off 4% is horrible accuracy and normal on the better GPS devices of today is more like 0.5-2% (depending on terrain). My A3P deviates by no more than .02 of a mile on my standard running routes (making the relative accuracy at around 0.2%), so it's very consistent. After being used to that there is absolutely no way I would settle for 4% accuracy.  That would be like have the chrono timer off by 4%. Accuracy-wise, with spot-on cumulative elevation gain and GPS abilities, I am very spoiled with the A3P. It's a tough act to follow.


----------



## NickYanakiev

SSU vs Garmin Edge 820 (GPS+GLONASS)
link to movescount.com
link to connect.garmin.com

Both devices were very close to each other during the ride- maybe 5cm apart. The Edge 820 looks cleaner to me personally. Movement speed averages are very similar, while elevation gain vs elevation loss range is similar.

P.S
Just got off the phone with Suunto support. Many people have reported problems with many escalated cases being investigated.

People have also been submitting reports on the poor GPS accuracy we have been witnessing since launch.
Suunto is working on a fix that will come along with the big update in early September!


----------



## edit0r

NickYanakiev said:


> SSU vs Garmin Edge 820 (GPS+GLONASS)
> link to movescount.com
> link to connect.garmin.com


The links are missing...


----------



## NickYanakiev

edit0r said:


> NickYanakiev said:
> 
> 
> 
> SSU vs Garmin Edge 820 (GPS+GLONASS)
> link to movescount.com
> link to connect.garmin.com
> 
> 
> 
> The links are missing...
Click to expand...

My bad!

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1310116184
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move118946402


----------



## Quotron

WEM said:


> Addionaly GPS accurancy is depended of the usage of US and NATO military. If needed for military purposes, precision of civil usage is limited.


Recently there was a notice by the FAA that civilian GPS would be affected. I never saw an impact with my runs, but I was aware of it.

GPS Interference Notam For Southwest - AVweb flash Article
FAA: military testing could leave GPS unreliable for pilots across West in June
Military Secretive About GPS Blackout Over California: "Testing Something That Disrupts GPS Over a Huge Area"


----------



## gousias

Teriemer said:


> Please don't get me wrong! The SSU at current state just isn't what I have thought and hoped for and I think that sucks...
> 
> PS
> Imagine what will happen if Garmin or Polar released their next high end watches now...?! Think of a F4 or a 935XT or a Polar V900. Where would that put SSU...?!


+1


----------



## XCJagge

Some notes and findings and thoughts. Most or all biking sessions I have seen are good. Partly for more open sky but most likely also for watch being usually screen up, on handlebar or on wrist but flat handlebar used making screen shoot pretty straight up.

Deviations are usually runs when screen shots to the watch hand side and small deviation is usually to the hand side, large deviation can be any direction. So the way watch is carried makes difference.

About gps performance in forest. Lower a satellite flies more trees a signals must pass trough to get to the receiver. Satellite positions vary, sometimes there is enough satellites high enough to make it work without having to use lower ones, sometimes not. This is why sometimes a gps device sometimes works just fine in forest and sometimes track gets all whacked. To use those low near horizon flying satellites the antenna needs to be big and sensitive, like the one in Ambit 3. For missing bulge obviously SSU does not have such an antenna.

Here comes glonass into play. More satellites means there is more likely enough high flying satellites to get accurate position without never having to use those low flying ones. This is why glonass should improve performance in forest drastically. And have no effect on open land. Note that glonass in not yet enabled in SSU and those comparisons are made against devices with glonass already enabled.

All I am interested in is track accuracy and I am still pretty confirmed my A3 peak will retire. IN Vertical thread I posted an image of tests and comparisons of a3 peak and vertical glonass on/off so I have pretty good idea how things will most likely look after glonass getting enabled. SSU already perform slightly better than vertical in gps only mode, so I am quite sure I will get more accurate track with SSU glonass on than with my peak. So I am not that worried about me getting the accuracy out of SSU, I am more worried about unit not recording points often enough. Now some turns look jagged for point not being saved every second, not even every two seconds.

Has anyone checked is SGEE getting erased in firmware update? Do we need to re-plug the watch to make it "optimize gps"?

Acquiring initial fix / lock phase is well hidden in SSU. Ambit told you it is looking for satellites and told when it got fix. It made you wait a while and gave it opportunity to lock to enough satellites. Such a phase is missing, you just always get start button. One easily just presses the button instead of waiting for a while. With gps units to get the most accurate track possible in challenging environment one usually better wait for good fix and lock to max amount of satellites and downloading fresh data straight from them instead of relying on server generated extended ephemeris data. In addition, SSU doesn't give any indication how good the fix is (there is only little arrow that turns white when even if there is just a minimum quality fix), so user really cannot know should he/she wait or head of immediately. What I have done when I wanted to test how well it performs is standing watch above my head for one minute before pushing the start button - just in case.

Edit: link to my Vertical test post.
https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/meet-suunto-ambit3-vertical-2750474-30.html#post28599602
SSU perform now better than vertical without glonass, and that indicates it should be become just fine, about at par with a3 - and most likely better with screen up padding.


----------



## buenosbias

IronP said:


> OMG....!
> Is there someone that bought the SSU and actually liked it??
> Reading all this latest entries, it seems awful!! And we are just in the first week of sales!


It's not so bad. IMO the Spartan Ultra is the best looking GPS sports watch out there. According to my first days of experience, GPS accuracy is at least very satisfactory. Satellite fix is very fast.

But the software is definitely immature. I don't understand why Suunto released it in this poor state. The glitches are so obvious, you wouldn't need a public beta test to find and repair them.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

I'm really enjoying my SSU (Ti HR). The hardware is absolutely awesome. The backlight is perfectly uniform and strong. The watch feels extremely comfortable on the wrist, to the point I sometimes quickly glance to check if it is still on my wrist. The color touch screen is crisp and responsive. The software runs smooth. There is critical functionality that still needs to be included in the system software (of Suunto's own admission). So no surprises there.

XCJagge, thanks for one of a handful of posts on this thread that are worth the time it takes to read them.


----------



## kris92

LONG_HAUL said:


> The color touch screen is crisp and responsive.


What do you mean ? The screen colors are as crisp as suunto website ones ?


----------



## stelpanta

Rebnats said:


> Hi, Not wishing to rain on your parade, is the screen shot in sleep mode under full sun or is that the brightest it can achieve.
> Also does the screen stay on or does it just go into sleep mode after a few seconds of inactivity. Any chance you or anyone else post up real world clock faces etc of the display under different lighting conditions. Many Thanks in advance.


Hi ,This is the brightest it can achieve in everyday use,but you can turn the screen on with touching a button.the screen go to this bright in to a few seconds.


----------



## rdm01

edit0r said:


> So this means that tomorrow we will have your test of SSU and V800 in a difficult GPS scenario? Yummy! Can't wait
> 
> Good Luck and Thank you !


First trail run in challenge zone. I did the route I used to test all the GPS device. The route is 90% under deep foliage forest and hilly ~10K trail (ambit2/3/V800 measure 9.8~10.2 all the times). It's a out and back route so pretty bad route for all device. I used before to test Ambit3 Vertical GPS accuracy.

Today I was wearing SSU on the right and V800 in the left one. V800 wins but SUU did pretty good IMHO (far better than Amibt3 Vertical, Traverse and Fenix 3). Distances are virtually identical  Cloudy day with some soft showers.

Link to MyGPSFiles

Of course it was my very first run with SUU. I'll repeat the same route in the next days to see if the data are consistent.


----------



## borgelkranz

IronP said:


> OMG....!
> Is there someone that bought the SSU and actually liked it??
> Reading all this latest entries, it seems awful!! And we are just in the first week of sales!


I bought it, use it and like it. True, the watch is not ready yet. But I knew this before ordering.
To my ears, much of the discussion seems to be about the (felt) necessity to always have the coolest watch and the disappointment that SSU might not be the coolest watch. But from a functional point of view, no one really has to switch from the Ambit line as everything is fine there...

When I saw the first pictures of the SSU I knew that I wanted it. But did I need it? No, certainly not... 



XCJagge said:


> ...[a]cquiring initial fix / lock phase is well hidden in SSU. Ambit told you it is looking for satellites and told when it got fix. It made you wait a while and gave it opportunity to lock to enough satellites. Such a phase is missing, you just always get start button...


This phase is still there. The *Start* button gets solid, once a fix is made. True, you can press the button earlier and thus skip the phase. This basically is the same as in my Ambit2R: there you were also able to skip the phase by pressing a button...


----------



## wydim

wydim said:


> while waiting for more updates and reviews for the SSU, I was reading about the future of smartwatches and android wear on the internet the other day and it struck me :
> 
> what do we like about Suunto ? ruggedness design and movescount plateform (up for debate). What we don't like from Suunto ? they're somewhat slow to implement features that are already existent in previous watches (alarm, customizable sport mode, android connection, notifications).
> 
> For me the perfect watch would be a Suunto Spartan Ultra, running Android Wear. And everything that you see in the actual SSU would be accessible from an app on the watch. Imagine the beautiful design of the SSU, battery life and precision instruments (GPS, baro, etc..) with the already mature Android Wear interface, connections with smartphone and other app and functionnality enabled.
> 
> how hard would it be for Suunto to do that ?


I think I found what I want. The MISSION from Nixon. It comes out in October. Can't wait to see what the battery life will be and other specs...


----------



## WEM

Impression from my first real track: wearing SSU on the left, A2 on the right and Samsung Galaxy S6 edge (ApeMap) in my poket.

Distance - real distance should be somthing about 3,8-3.9km
SSU: 3.91km
A2: 3.88km
S6edge: 3.86km

Sunny day, most time free view to sky, some tree covered parts, parts near big buildings, clinic and fire departmend very near (radiation!).

Interesting to see that every device had problems in some corners... once the A2 was best, once the SSU and a few times surprising the S6 (!!!). No clear tendence who was best here...
From the distance side, every measurement is good.


----------



## rdm01

borgelkranz said:


> This phase is still there. The *Start* button gets solid, once a fix is made. True, you can press the button earlier and thus skip the phase. This basically is the same as in my Ambit2R: there you were also able to skip the phase by pressing a button...


Also the white arrow turns from empty to white filled when the satellites are fixed

deporteporvida.com


----------



## bruceames

I'm not sure that Glonass is going to be this fix-all. The Fenix 3 has it and users are still complaining. Why would this watch be any different?


----------



## sloon

pls help
reinstall app my iphone 100x


----------



## NickYanakiev

Please delete.


----------



## NickYanakiev

rdm01 said:


> First trail run in challenge zone. I did the route I used to test all the GPS device. The route is 90% under deep foliage forest and hilly ~10K trail (ambit2/3/V800 measure 9.8~10.2 all the times). It's a out and back route so pretty bad route for all device. I used before to test Ambit3 Vertical GPS accuracy.
> 
> Today I was wearing SSU on the right and V800 in the left one. V800 wins but SUU did pretty good IMHO (far better than Amibt3 Vertical, Traverse and Fenix 3). Distances are virtually identical  Cloudy day with some soft showers.
> 
> Link to MyGPSFiles
> 
> Of course it was my very first run with SUU. I'll repeat the same route in the next days to see if the data are consistent.


Thanks for the brilliant test. I will do something similar during my 5k&10k park race in London this Sunday. I only have SSU at the moment so I will use my Galaxy S7 Edge for comparison purposes.


----------



## jdengate

Jaka83 said:


> There must be a combination of long pressing the buttons ... since there are only three of them, you don't have many options to try.
> 
> long press top
> long press middle
> long press bottom
> long press top and middle
> long press top and bottom
> long press middle and bottom
> long press all three
> 
> Seven options. Or maybe it involves the touch screen as well.


I held all three buttons for a long time. Eventually the second hand on the watch display stopped moving, so I released them all. The screen went dark, then came back on and the second hand started moving again. Not entirely sure if that reset things, but before then I was having trouble syncing moves through either the phone app or USB cable/SuuntoLink application. After that, things synced okay.


----------



## marcomueller

edit0r said:


> Good to hear that!
> I mean no disrespect and please don't take it the wrong way but when people before you complained about the Spartan GPS performance in the forest (and brought proof to show us the problem) and your first post is saying that is "_not bad_" and "_is the same in some cases even better than with my Suunto Ambit 3 Peak_" but you don't bring any proof you kinda determine us to ignore your feedback.
> 
> Can you please bring some proof that can back up the claims?
> 
> Thank you !


Ok , people . Today my second test with the SSU.Trail Running in dense forest and open ways in the alps with cloudy sky . I must say again that the accurary of the SSU is at least equally good and sometimes even better than my A3P . I hope now does the upload links . Watchuseek has reported to me yesterday that I have too little posts have to upload links and images .


----------



## marcomueller

edit0r said:


> Good to hear that!
> I mean no disrespect and please don't take it the wrong way but when people before you complained about the Spartan GPS performance in the forest (and brought proof to show us the problem) and your first post is saying that is "_not bad_" and "_is the same in some cases even better than with my Suunto Ambit 3 Peak_" but you don't bring any proof you kinda determine us to ignore your feedback.
> 
> Can you please bring some proof that can back up the claims?
> 
> Thank you !


How many post I need to load up links and images?


----------



## marcomueller

edit0r said:


> Good to hear that!
> I mean no disrespect and please don't take it the wrong way but when people before you complained about the Spartan GPS performance in the forest (and brought proof to show us the problem) and your first post is saying that is "_not bad_" and "_is the same in some cases even better than with my Suunto Ambit 3 Peak_" but you don't bring any proof you kinda determine us to ignore your feedback.
> 
> Can you please bring some proof that can back up the claims?
> 
> Thank you !


Alternative you can compare the moves on my movescount - marcomueller -. Comparing the movements from 22.7 . ( A3P ) and 18.8 . (SSU) . As well as the 4.7 ( A3P ) and 19.8 . SSU is comparing the first half of the route . Please give me a feedback


----------



## edit0r

marcomueller said:


> Alternative you can compare the moves on my movescount - marcomueller -. Comparing the movements from 22.7 . ( A3P ) and 18.8 . (SSU) . As well as the 4.7 ( A3P ) and 19.8 . SSU is comparing the first half of the route . Please give me a feedback


Thank you for your reply and thank you for the info !
Had a look at the moves... the performance is pretty good.... indeed the SSU had similar if not quite a bit better performance than the Ambit 3 run... that is GREAT news guys !

the link to marcomueller moves in case you guys want to have a peak at them:

1. SSU move - marcomueller's 0:54 h Trail running Move
2. Ambit 3 move on the above track - marcomueller's 0:53 h Running Move

3. another SSU move - marcomueller's 2:22 h Trail running Move


----------



## edit0r

rdm01 said:


> Today I was wearing SSU on the right and V800 in the left one. V800 wins but SUU did pretty good IMHO (far better than Amibt3 Vertical, Traverse and Fenix 3). Distances are virtually identical  Cloudy day with some soft showers.
> Of course it was my very first run with SUU. I'll repeat the same route in the next days to see if the data are consistent.


Man this is GREAT news for all of us !!!
That means the hardware is great and the watch has huge potential... it all comes down to the Suunto programmers to make this watch shine !

Thank you !


----------



## Riu

Hi there!
I've got the SSU+HR from Wednesday and I have done two tests.
First, running. Results with GPS are great!. Problems: Touchscreen is a little sluggish and menus are shallow. Logbooks can not delete, specially if you start an exercise by mistake. So, the first impression of the interface is that needs a serious update in most of the aspects.
Second, today. Swimming pool with HR. I swam in a 50m pool but after 100m the next 50m counted 100!, so after a while I stopped and I tried a new exercise, with the same problem. When I tried a third move my watch freezed with the screen " Starting... 00'00.0 " and I could not reset. I plugged into movescount link with no response. And the two exercises hasn't been transfered to movescount yet.
I am really disappointed and frustrated. Now I have my watch unusable. How can I reset?


----------



## XCJagge

Well, to me that marcomueller's move looks more like A3 was't properly locked to satellites and first 15 minutes it just whacked jagged wandering over houses and forests. Then it got better lock and behaved better. And that more normal part is slightly better than SSU recording. I agree SSU is promising but this comparison here doesn't prove much anything really. One can easily make similar comparison the other way around, SSU all whacked and A3 recording nicely, just starting with outdated SGEE and not letting it get proper fix. When you compare devices please let them get proper fix before you start moving (and download fresh SGEE).


----------



## sloon

only 6 gps track ,,, movescount 12/50 ... synced (((
wtf


----------



## XCJagge

Riu, did you make firmware update to latest version before those tests? If not you still have old firmware that may freeze easily. Anyway, I think pushing all 3 buttons simultaneously for some seconds will reset the watch. Not sure will stored moves get erased, possibly not.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Riu said:


> Second, today. Swimming pool with HR. I swam in a 50m pool but after 100m the next 50m counted 100!, so after a while I stopped and I tried a new exercise, with the same problem. When I tried a third move my watch freezed with the screen " Starting... 00'00.0 " and I could not reset. ?


I have not had a single length miscounted so far. Just like it used to be with my 910XT. I have been doing my swims with two watches and I'm confident enough now to go with just the SU Ti (my other watch did miss a few 100 yards).


----------



## edit0r

Riu said:


> Logbooks can not delete, specially if you start an exercise by mistake.


True and very annoying. I prefer how Polar handles short or very short runs... it asks you at the end of the run if you want to save it or delete it.. comes in handy when you make mistakes.



Riu said:


> Second, today. Swimming pool with HR. I swam in a 50m pool but after 100m the next 50m counted 100!


The secret is to push hard from the wall. 
So far I did not had any problems with my SSU counting laps...


----------



## dcrainmaker

Anyone else done any openwater swims with theirs yet?

I did my first today and it was...umm...rough.

Despite actually nailing the distances that it was tracking through the first 1,000m (compared to three other units, one of which was giving me audio distance alerts feedback from a GPS transmitter above water). It totally crapped itself when I stopped mid-way through swim. What I discovered was that anytime I put my wrist underwater and left it there (such as treading water), it'd add 100-200 yards to the total. Basically, it loses GPS, but doesn't have a filter for when it gains it - so it has low accuracy at that moment and adds distance. Yet my swim map only has three points on it (despite swimming a gigantic circle). Sigh.

Actual swim here (this data from FR735XT, which is close enough to the reference GPS tracks for the purposes of this post): https://www.strava.com/activities/681527225


----------



## NickYanakiev

Move 1: http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119089154
Galaxy S7 vs SSU: https://www.strava.com/activities/681900097 http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119089153
Galaxy S7 vs SSU part II https://www.strava.com/activities/681936355 http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119089155


----------



## Riu

XCJagge said:


> Riu, did you make firmware update to latest version before those tests? If not you still have old firmware that may freeze easily. Anyway, I think pushing all 3 buttons simultaneously for some seconds will reset the watch. Not sure will stored moves get erased, possibly not.


I updated since I've got the SSUTi (v1.1.24). Thank you for how to reset the watch. I think I tried once but not so many seconds. My two exercises has been transfered to movescount. But why they did not transfered directly to Strava? In the case of running it was transfered automatically.


----------



## edit0r

XCJagge said:


> Well, to me that marcomueller's move looks more like A3 was't properly locked to satellites and first 15 minutes it just whacked jagged wandering over houses and forests.


Yes, it could be a posibility...



XCJagge said:


> I agree SSU is promising but this comparison here doesn't prove much anything really.


Ok, how do you feel about the @rdm01 run? I say it looks very promising 
Of course it's just my opinion, feel free to bring your thoughts into it


----------



## edit0r

NickYanakiev said:


> http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119089154
> Galaxy S7 vs SSU: NYanakiev's 0:05 h Running Move
> Galaxy S7 vs SSU part II https://www.strava.com/activities/681936355 http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119089155


I'm replying just to fix your links...

Move 1: NYanakiev's 0:15 h Running Move

Galaxy S7 vs SSU: https://www.strava.com/activities/681900097 : NYanakiev's 0:05 h Running Move

Galaxy S7 vs SSU part II : https://www.strava.com/activities/681936355 : NYanakiev's 0:06 h Running Move


----------



## Riu

LONG_HAUL said:


> I have not had a single length miscounted so far. Just like it used to be with my 910XT. I have been doing my swims with two watches and I'm confident enough now to go with just the SU Ti (my other watch did miss a few 100 yards).


This was my first experience with my SSUTI in a swimming pool (50m length), firmware updated (1.1.24). If it was an uncommon problem I would not write any comments, but at the 150 you've got 200m... you become suspicious of your results. I think that swimming exercises needs to correct AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!


----------



## Riu

edit0r said:


> True and very annoying. I prefer how Polar handles short or very short runs... it asks you at the end of the run if you want to save it or delete it.. comes in handy when you make mistakes.
> 
> And also you have to see in your "training mode" a bar with an exercise that you hadn't done. In my case "openwater swimming", imagine if I started a "cheerleading" session...
> 
> The secret is to push hard from the wall.
> So far I did not had any problems with my SSU counting laps...


I don't think this would help. When I reached +50m (of my real 150m) I saw in my watch 100m more, this wouldn't change if I pushed hard from the wall.


----------



## Anthony5280

wydim said:


> I think I found what I want. The MISSION from Nixon. It comes out in October. Can't wait to see what the battery life will be and other specs...


I am very excited about the Nixon offering as well. It looks very promising. I can't wait for the detailed specs to be revealed.

I am undecided upon the SSU. I'm really disappointed that it was not the Ambit 4.

Questions for the SSU users.

Have you applied a display protector to your SSU?

If so how is the watch display performing now that you have done so?


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

anyone have issues updating the watches firmware ? I'm on windows 7 and when I connect the watch it says i'm missing the driver for the watch and it can't seem to find the driver. So I'm unable to update the firmware at this time.


----------



## Joakim Agren

Would be nice to see some tests when walking normally. Does it start to behave erratic or is the tracking still stable? Also you guys who are doing GPS accuracy tests have you calibrated your compasses and put in a accurate declination value?

I remember reading somewhere long time ago that in the Ambit's Suunto have some sort of patent for compass assistance for its GPS function to filter out some erratic readings from poor GPS signal. So perhaps a properly calibrated compass with the correct declination value will be even slightly better in the accuracy department. Can be worth trying out before next test...


----------



## XCJagge

edit0r said:


> Ok, how do you feel about the @rdm01 run? I say it looks very promising
> Of course it's just my opinion, feel free to bring your thoughts into it


Yup, rdm01's run is more like it, very similar to my experiences. Sometimes satellites are lower and it wanders slightly more and I expect glonass to fix that. And there can be seen this error to watch hand's side that for SSU can be erased by padding (and should became smaller with glonass) and for polar by inner style upside down (been told that trick works for polar too).

What I tried to say we should not get too exited if watch A perform better than watch B when watch B is performing worse than it usually does and clearly did not perform normally.


----------



## WEM

Hi,

tested the 1sec Power Save Fix.
Blue: SSU 1sec Power Save
Red: Ambit2 5sec Fix
Green: S6edge with ApeMap

Note that the tracks are all in a corridor of less than 20m.
The part was an tree covered. I would say, SSU was nearest to real position...

SSU needs some better filtering (maybee fine tuning of parameters of 3D-Kalman filter)








Overall distance nearly the same (20m difference).


----------



## edit0r

Just found out that the SSU matte case finish is very easy to scratch (wear out) so be careful if you like to have a good looking watch... The plastic is not very tough... you can even scratch it with your fingernail... you go back and forth a few times with your fingernail on the case and the matte finish is quickly wearing out... that is a big disappointment for me. Tried the same fingernail experiment on my Fenix 3 HR... nothing happened... way tougher plastic case. I really don't want to know what will happen with the SSU if you brush it by accident against a tougher material... like a rock or a wall...


----------



## XCJagge

Some screen shots at different angles.


----------



## fotomas

edit0r said:


> Just found out that the SSU matte case finish is very easy to scratch (wear out) so be careful if you like to have a good looking watch... The plastic is not very tough... you can even scratch it with your fingernail... you go back and forth a few times with your fingernail on the case and the matte finish is quickly wearing out... that is a big disappointment for me. Tried the same fingernail experiment on my Fenix 3 HR... nothing happened... way tougher plastic case. I really don't want to know what will happen with the SSU if you brush it by accident against a tougher material... like a rock or a wall...


Could it be fingernail residue? Have tried to rub it with a damp cloth?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## IronP

edit0r said:


> Just found out that the SSU matte case finish is very easy to scratch (wear out) so be careful if you like to have a good looking watch... The plastic is not very tough... you can even scratch it with your fingernail... you go back and forth a few times with your fingernail on the case and the matte finish is quickly wearing out... that is a big disappointment for me. Tried the same fingernail experiment on my Fenix 3 HR... nothing happened... way tougher plastic case. I really don't want to know what will happen with the SSU if you brush it by accident against a tougher material... like a rock or a wall...


The material used in the SSU should be the same as the one from the A3. Indeed, I just tried in my A3 and some "marks" stayed even after trying to clean it with a wet cloath.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jimmysalvo

It seems that the GPS accuracy of the SSU is quite comparable to the A3P. So, it is possible to make a good GPS watch with an integrated antenna (considering also the V800), I wonder then why the A3V has a visible performance difference as it should share at least the hardware design


----------



## edit0r

I just washed the SSU and dried it with a soft towel... no... the wear marks are still on the watch... (
Again ... it was just my nail going back and forth maybe 3-5 times in a 2-3mm space... and I was not pushing very hard with my nail on the case... 
In fact you can try it yourself on any displayed watch in store... then get into light and see the results...
Then try to scratch the Fenix 3 case with your fingernail.... no matter how hard you try you can't... just tested again right now... pushed harder and rubbed it like 5-8 times on a same small area 2-3mm and it does not show.
The SSU case will show wear a lot faster and it will be a lot more visible even if you will take care of the watch



More on the watch...
I wanted to take a bike ride to test the watch (SSU)... I put on my HR belt... selected the bike profile... after the watch detected the satellites the screen turned off for 2 seconds... vibrated shortly and it rebooted. I guess the dark screen is the Suunto translation of the Microsoft blue screen of death (BSOD)... After the BSOD and reboot it started to display the watch face... and showing that it is charging (bug or hardware problems). On top of that it does not detect the HR belt anymore... Tried to change the battery to the HR... no luck... so It's either the watch or the belt... since I don't have a spare belt can't really test the watch..... Suunto warranty here I come !

Well, I can understand some bugs... In fact I got over the swimming shortcomings... but instability and reboots SUCKS badly.... especially when the firmware is so basic... I can use basic as long as it is stable.

I am very sad right now... this should not happen.


----------



## WEM

Another Test:

Blue: SSU with 1sec power safe fix (Good) from yesterday
Red: SSU with 1sec fix (Best) from today
Green: Suunto Traverse with 1sec fix & glonass enabled from today









Saw this moment, that movescount does filter positions. the tack looks much better


----------



## edit0r

Arrrrggghhh....

I found a way to test the HR belt... managed to pair the belt via Bluetooth with my Samsung phone and it seems to be working fine... tested with the Movescount app and it's showing HR properly.

That means that my watch is *broken*... that is unexpected... oh man.... 

Looks like I am out of the game


----------



## WEM

edit0r said:


> Arrrrggghhh....
> 
> I found a way to test the HR belt... managed to pair the belt via Bluetooth with my Samsung phone and it seems to be working fine... tested with the Movescount app and it's showing HR properly.
> 
> That means that my watch is *broken*... that is unexpected... oh man....
> 
> Looks like I am out of the game


sounds bad. did you try to force a firmware update... erease maybe all data relicts


----------



## edit0r

WEM said:


> sounds bad. did you try to force a firmware update... erease maybe all data relicts


I don't know how to do that... Can you please share the intel?

Thank you

P.S. looks like the watch Bluetooth is dead or stuck... I can't detect it with my phone either... even if the watch is set to be discoverable via BT... and it's not on airplane mode either
Tried to force a reboot 2 times... holding all 3 button for 15 seconds and then releasing... resulted in forced reboot but that did not solve my problem...


----------



## WEM

edit0r said:


> I don't know how to do that... Can you please share the intel?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> P.S. looks like the watch Bluetooth is dead or stuck... I can't detect it on my phone either... even if the watch is set to be discoverable via BT... and it's not on airplane mode either
> Tried to force a reboot 2 times... holding all 3 button for 15 seconds and then releasing... resulted in forced reboot but that did not solve my problem either...


Connect watch to computer / open suuntolink / click on settings (gearwheel) / watches / suunto spartan.









This shoud be delete all data including moves: "back to factory state". Good luck.


----------



## edit0r

WEM said:


> Connect watch to computer / open suuntolink / click on settings (gearwheel) / watches / suunto spartan.
> This shoud be delete all data including moves: "back to factory state". Good luck.


Thank you!

Great news !!!

I restored it and it came back to life !!!!

Oh man, what a relief ! Servicing it would have taken at least a 7-10 days.

Phew... what a nasty bug


----------



## WEM

edit0r said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Great news !!!
> 
> I restored it and it came back to life !!!!
> 
> Oh man, what a relief ! Servicing it would have taken at least a 7-10 days.
> 
> Phew... what a nasty bug


that's good.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Here is a round trip I did with the watch (I used the Garmin Edge 820 for turn by turn navigation)- looks great considering I will stopping and starting all the time due to traffic (apart from one area, where I got a little lost and the GPS went crazy, it seems..)

Cycling Greenwich-Catford 
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119183014

Cycling Catford-Greenwich 
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119183024​​


----------



## rdm01

I did the same trail run than the day before wearing V800 and SSU. The same results. V800 better track but distances pretty accurate. The GPS accuracy looks enough good to me.

Link to MyGPSFiles


----------



## jimmysalvo

rdm01 said:


> I did the same trail run than the day before wearing V800 and SSU. The same results. V800 better track but distances pretty accurate. The GPS accuracy looks enough good to me.
> 
> Link to MyGPSFiles


Are you planning to do the same trail with the Vertical (after the last fw update, seems to work better), V800 and the SSU? I am thinking to update from the vertical to the SSU...


----------



## edit0r

WEM said:


> that's good.


Thank you for the suggestion !!! Tried everything I could thing of... I could not find how to reset to default or to turn the watch completely off... It looks like you can't turn it off completely (like you can with the Garmins)... or reset to default via watch menus... You can only force software update via computer software (that also wipes the watch of all data and settings).

So if the watch get's stuck like mine did with the BT and you don't have a computer around....


----------



## NickYanakiev

The V800 looks better indeed- even though this is subjective as I don't really know the exact path of the trail. V800's track looks tidier though, while SSU seems to lose focus at times. Hopefully Suunto can improve this further.


----------



## WEM

NickYanakiev said:


> The V800 looks better indeed- even though this is subjective as I don't really know the exact path of the trail. V800's track looks tidier though, while SSU seems to lose focus at times. Hopefully Suunto can improve this further.


Hi!

I was also surprised about the zigzag of 1 sec fix track. But then I saw that movescount doesn't allow such a zoom level and the movescount track viewer filters out most of this zigzag.

Just to have a reference - the little square has a size of 2x2m. The variations are about 1-2m....








My Ambit 2 does look exactly the same. Not zoomed in for long time...


----------



## rdm01

jimmysalvo said:


> Are you planning to do the same trail with the Vertical (after the last fw update, seems to work better), V800 and the SSU? I am thinking to update from the vertical to the SSU...


I have sold my A3V some weeks ago to get cash to buy the SSU. I still having the Traverse so I could go...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## bruceames

NickYanakiev said:


> The V800 looks better indeed- even though this is subjective as I don't really know the exact path of the trail. V800's track looks tidier though, while SSU seems to lose focus at times. Hopefully Suunto can improve this further.


Loses focus especially around the corners. (which would be expected of course). That the distance is about the same is probably by coincidence. I'm curious as to how accurate it is "relatively". That is, how much the distance varies on the SSU on the same course over the course of several runs. Sometimes while the absolute accuracy is lacking, there is enough consistency to help make up for it.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Phoenixatdawn said:


> anyone have issues updating the watches firmware ? I'm on windows 7 and when I connect the watch it says i'm missing the driver for the watch and it can't seem to find the driver. So I'm unable to update the firmware at this time.


For anyone else running into this problem on windows 7 64 bit I was able to download the driver when I ran suunto link as administrator and can now sync my watch. For those running 32 bit systems it, i read somewhere that those systems are just not compatible and will simply not work at this point.


----------



## rdm01

bruceames said:


> Loses focus especially around the corners. (which would be expected of course). That the distance is about the same is probably by coincidence. I'm curious as to how accurate it is "relatively". That is, how much the distance varies on the SSU on the same course over the course of several runs. Sometimes while the absolute accuracy is lacking, there is enough consistency to help make up for it.


Here you got the link to the moves:

RicardoDiazMartin's 0:55 h Trail running Move
RicardoDiazMartin's 0:54 h Trail running Move

An here the comparison in MyGPSFiles

MyGPSFiles


----------



## NickYanakiev

Here is a little swim-run. 
I thought of doing this as all watches I've had fail to get this area right. Will update if I find the corresponding Ambit3 Peak short run.

NYanakiev's 0:05 h Running Move


----------



## neldiogo

edit0r said:


> Just found out that the SSU matte case finish is very easy to scratch (wear out) so be careful if you like to have a good looking watch... The plastic is not very tough... you can even scratch it with your fingernail... you go back and forth a few times with your fingernail on the case and the matte finish is quickly wearing out... that is a big disappointment for me. Tried the same fingernail experiment on my Fenix 3 HR... nothing happened... way tougher plastic case. I really don't want to know what will happen with the SSU if you brush it by accident against a tougher material... like a rock or a wall...


That happened to me in the first days with Peak. It had sone dirt over GPS bump and a I used a finger nail to remove it, just to discover that I had permanently scratched the watch. Very disappointed at the time. I would expect suunto used a different material.


----------



## martowl

neldiogo said:


> That happened to me in the first days with Peak. It had sone dirt over GPS bump and a I used a finger nail to remove it, just to discover that I had permanently scratched the watch. Very disappointed at the time. I would expect suunto used a different material.


I for one am very happy with the material used, it is highly durable!! Mine (A3 Peak Sapphire Blue) has nicks, scratches and a couple of small gouges. And...the bezel has a bunch of scratches. They really don't show that much and I play hard with mine. It gets banged up on the rocks when scrambling a lot. The only surface I care about is the glass and the Sapphire is great, I have only one small nick about the size of a pinhead. Given what my watch goes through including multiple face plants on trails where the watch is in the dirt, the housing material, bezel and glass hold up remarkably well. After all, the A3 and SSU are not dress watches, they are exercise watches.....


----------



## edit0r

martowl said:


> I for one am very happy with the material used, it is highly durable!! Mine (A3 Peak Sapphire Blue) has nicks, scratches and a couple of small gouges. And...the bezel has a bunch of scratches. They really don't show that much and I play hard with mine. It gets banged up on the rocks when scrambling a lot. The only surface I care about is the glass and the Sapphire is great, I have only one small nick about the size of a pinhead. Given what my watch goes through including multiple face plants on trails where the watch is in the dirt, the housing material, bezel and glass hold up remarkably well. After all, the A3 and SSU are not dress watches, they are exercise watches.....


As I said earlier I am not happy with the material... In fact when I pay a premium price I expect a premium watch... meaning features (that most are missing now) and hardware (durable case, sapphire glass, good internals and so on)... we are not talking here about a 150 euros plastic watch with a plastic screen... Paying premium raises you expectations level... and when you find out that is scratchable with your nail in 2 seconds kinds pisses you off.


----------



## martowl

edit0r said:


> As I said earlier I am not happy with the material... In fact when I pay a premium price I expect a premium watch... meaning features (that most are missing now) and hardware (durable case, sapphire glass, good internals and so on)... we are not talking here about a 150 euros plastic watch with a plastic screen... Paying premium raises you expectations level... and when you find out that is scratchable with your nail in 2 seconds kinds pisses you off.


And I am saying the case is durable....how many moves do you have on either an Ambit or the SSU? There is a trade off with weight and materials. In my experience with all the Ambits I have owned I have never broken the case nor scratched the case sufficiently that it would show unless I took a fairly hi res photo and blew up the photo. I have scratched bezels and mineral glass, quite significantly. Since the SSU has the same case material as the Ambit, I am confident it is durable. Below is a summary of my moves with the Ambits I have owned...never had one break but I have returned one for sticky buttons. As I said before, these are not dress watches, sorry for the rant but I feel that many of the "complaints" on this thread are rather trivial.









I cancelled my pre-order for an SSU because I want an elevation route similar to the Vertical and because I am concerned about real use battery life. The rest of the feature set on the SSU is fine for me. I am not that concerned about GPS "accuracy" as I measure my moves by hours not pace. I want better navigation than the Ambit3 Peak I own.

I don't care about daily tracking but there was a lot of demand for daily tracking, a color screen and vibration alerts. Those are there on the SSU and no one has commented positively on the fact that Suunto probably did those because of demand. I expect I will buy an SSU, if Suunto incorporates the elevation route profiles as that is my number one desire at this point.


----------



## dogrunner

martowl said:


> And I am saying the case is durable....... these are not dress watches, sorry for the rant but I feel that many of the "complaints" on this thread are rather trivial.
> 
> I cancelled my pre-order for an SSU because I want an elevation route similar to the Vertical and because I am concerned about real use battery life. The rest of the feature set on the SSU is fine for me. I am not that concerned about GPS "accuracy" as I measure my moves by hours not pace. I want better navigation than the Ambit3 Peak I own.
> 
> I don't care about daily tracking but there was a lot of demand for daily tracking, a color screen and vibration alerts. Those are there on the SSU and no one has commented positively on the fact that Suunto probably did those because of demand. I expect I will buy an SSU, if Suunto incorporates the elevation route profiles as that is my number one desire at this point.


Good post! I do really appreciate all the critiques though and especially the real-world experience that I hope Suunto is paying attention to and succeeds in finding fixes for anything substantive.

I do not have an SSU, but I want one because of what it did offer, along with all the stuff I don't care about.
I have an Ambi1 and liked it but wanted longer battery life and breadcrumb trail for nav. I bought an A2 and got better battery life and pretty good GPS (and I have NO problem with the antenna bump, none whatsoever not a problem don't fix it !  ) but still no breadcrumb trail. That for me is one of the most useful features on a GPS (and I use mapping GPSs a lot in my field work (I am an ecologist / wildlife biologist as well as a trail runner / ultra runner) and I bought a Garmin Epix just to get that. I don't like touch screens in the field/trail, don't need vibrations, I stopped doing triathlons a few years ago and don't swim anymore (but still mtn bike occasionally). Anyway, I am glad to see something with lots of functionality so Suunto can expand their market base, but what I really want is long battery life, really good GPS (so it doesn't tell me I have done 50 miles when I know I still have another mile to go in a tough ultra , and useful nav function especially breadcrumb trails, and yes elevation profiles would be great too. So the SSU looked like it would give me nearly all that I wanted. I hope it works out that way and thank you to everyone for trying these things out.


----------



## neldiogo

martowl said:


> I for one am very happy with the material used, it is highly durable!! Mine (A3 Peak Sapphire Blue) has nicks, scratches and a couple of small gouges. And...the bezel has a bunch of scratches. They really don't show that much and I play hard with mine. It gets banged up on the rocks when scrambling a lot. The only surface I care about is the glass and the Sapphire is great, I have only one small nick about the size of a pinhead. Given what my watch goes through including multiple face plants on trails where the watch is in the dirt, the housing material, bezel and glass hold up remarkably well. After all, the A3 and SSU are not dress watches, they are exercise watches.....


It's durable but not high quality plastic. Shouldn't be easily scratched with a nail. Mine has gone to the ground several times on falls and against rocks and is showing no signs of that but probably the case plastic never got a direct hit.

I think suunto should have choose a different kind of exterior material for SSU


----------



## edit0r

martowl said:


> And I am saying the case is durable....how many moves do you have on either an Ambit or the SSU? There is a trade off with weight and materials. In my experience with all the Ambits I have owned I have never broken the case nor scratched the case sufficiently that it would show unless I took a fairly hi res photo and blew up the photo. I have scratched bezels and mineral glass, quite significantly. Since the SSU has the same case material as the Ambit, I am confident it is durable. Below is a summary of my moves with the Ambits I have owned...never had one break but I have returned one for sticky buttons. As I said before, these are not dress watches, sorry for the rant but I feel that many of the "complaints" on this thread are rather trivial.


If I managed to scratch the case so easily it clearly demonstrates that the watch will show signs of wear and tear really fast down the road.

Let me say it again maybe Suunto can understand : 800$ sport watch that you can scratch it's case matte finish with your nails..... again 800$

@martowl... maybe for you this level of quality is acceptable for me it isn't !

Case closed !


----------



## Larry115

My black Spartan Ultra is holding up great...no scratches and I'm certainly not going to try and scratch it. I would never do that to a new car...lol. The gentlemen who is not happy with his ultra because he believes it scratches easy, I would suggest sending it back and get the white ultra...problem solved. I do have a question about auto pause. On the Fenix 3 u can set that on all the sports basically, but it appears it's not possible on the ultra...does anyone think this will change with updates. Also, on the run mode it appears to have auto pause set. I've stopped running to test this and my Ultra keep timing. Am I doing something wrong? Also, does anyone have any experience with the ultra sport yet? Because of size I'm wondering if that's not a better choice for me...I don't hike or do 100 mile runs etc......any opinions on the sport?
thanks, Larry


----------



## Rem_

HIKESOLO said:


> It is painful reading this thread.


Agree !
Some of the contribut0rs of this thread are painful to read.


----------



## edit0r

Rem_ said:


> Agree !
> Some of the contribut0rs of this thread are painful to read.


Too all that keep complaining but do nothing about it... ignore the ones you don't like from the forum interface and you will not see their annoying contributions to the thread ever again... is that simple.
Please let everyone speak freely... it's a forum.


----------



## Jaka83

Larry115 said:


> My black Spartan Ultra is holding up great...no scratches and I'm certainly not going to try and scratch it. I would never do that to a new car...lol. The gentlemen who is not happy with his ultra because he believes it scratches easy, I would suggest sending it back and get the white ultra...problem solved. I do have a question about auto pause. On the Fenix 3 u can set that on all the sports basically, but it appears it's not possible on the ultra...does anyone think this will change with updates. Also, on the run mode it appears to have auto pause set. I've stopped running to test this and my Ultra keep timing. Am I doing something wrong? Also, does anyone have any experience with the ultra sport yet? Because of size I'm wondering if that's not a better choice for me...I don't hike or do 100 mile runs etc......any opinions on the sport?
> thanks, Larry


If you can live without the sapphire glass, thermometer and barometer for precision ascend and descend values, then the Sport model is for you.


----------



## NickYanakiev

6k run from this morning- lots of trees as it was in the park- not impressed.... I was not zigzaging at all....This is probably the worst I have seen from this watch so far.

For Suunto's sake, I hope that they are actively looking into improving overall GPS performance. 
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119315216

Here is my friend's longer run on the same course with a Garmin Vivoactive HR- a watch that does not even do every second recording:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1313862643/share/1?lang=en&t=1471778958
​


----------



## johan6504

10K race from yesterday.
Yellow: V800. Blue: SSU. Clear sky, perfect weather and not very demanding, i.e. mostly open road.
V800 followed the track and road very well. With SSU I see drop outs, and big deviations, even where there is clear open sky. This is not what I expected and needs to be addressed ASAP.

Johan6504's 0:49 h Running Move


----------



## NickYanakiev

I just sent an email to the engineers at Suunto that are looking into my case. They requested that I send them proof of times when SSU has behaved below expectations by producing a bad track. I was told to expect their feedback by close of business on Monday. 
I am seeing very similar results, as per my post just above yours.


----------



## kallet

I have done 2 rides with the SSU so far and I think it is following the road perfectly, not a single deviation what I can see and the corners seems OK. However, it has not been very challenging conditions. No trees around and open lands, but cloudy sky. The altitude however is not very exact on my SSU, jumps up/down 5-10 meter even when I am standing still. And the automatic altitude shows about 10 meter to low. Not sure why thats the case.


----------



## johan6504

NickYanakiev said:


> I just sent an email to the engineers at Suunto that are looking into my case. They requested that I send them proof of times when SSU has behaved below expectations by producing a bad track. I was told to expect their feedback by close of business on Monday.
> I am seeing very similar results, as per my post just above yours.


Great  Keep us posted!


----------



## NickYanakiev

Will do. Hopefully Suunto acknowledge the problem and try to remedy if via a software update. I fear that the root cause of the problem is the actual antenna, which they should have identified during their development phase. What is puzzling to me is how this was not corrected after the Ambit3 Vertical fiasco.


----------



## Pegasus

NickYanakiev said:


> Will do. Hopefully Suunto acknowledge the problem and try to remedy if via a software update. I fear that the root cause of the problem is the actual antenna, which they should have identified during their development phase. What is puzzling to me is how this was not corrected after the Ambit3 Vertical fiasco.


I wonder how many people outside of this forum would complain about the accuracy though? I mean regarding the Vertical, so maybe they didn't see it as a huge problem.

I think it's quite poor, I have a Traverse and the tracks it creates are comical at times.

Just thinking out loud.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NickYanakiev

Well- they did recently issue a GPS firmware update for the Vertical, did they not? I am under the impression that the update improved things for people. Thus, they seem to be taking user feedback on board. 
If not- I have 3 more weeks to decide if I want to keep a watch that has a nice design but lacks most of its competitors' basic functions like alarms and alti/baro graphs.

If Suunto want to turn into even more of a niche company than they already are- fine, I guess I will go back to my old trusty Polar V800.


----------



## IronP

This is for the current owners...:
Since I do long distance triathlons, I am interest to know about the battery performance!
Is the claimed battery life of the SSU really 18h in best GPS modus?
Thanks...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rdm01

IronP said:


> This is for the current owners...:
> Since I do long distance triathlons, I am interest to know about the battery performance!
> Is the claimed battery life of the SSU really 18h in best GPS modus?
> Thanks...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I went for a run today. From 88% to 81% on a 1:06 run. Round to 7% a hour it's a little bit more than 14 hours battery life... GPS was set to maximum, autolap every 1km, vibration alerts, disabled sounds, backlight switched off, HR belt and fw 1.1.24

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Paulchen4711

Folks,

I now also want to use the opportunity to share this weekend's SSU accuracy-test results. Yesterday I did a long run in an urban area with all kind of tracks - curved, straight, with trees and without, with large buildings and without... On my left arm I wore the Polar V800 and on the right the SSU. At the end I compared the routes and I can say that V800 is performing much better than the SSU. The SSU did well but V800 was simply better, almost very, very close to the real track. Distance-wise both watches were almost identical 34,66 km (V800) vs. 34,42 (SSU). This is less than 1% deviation which is fine with me. 

BUT: Today I did an exercise in an athletics stadium with a regular 400m track. What can I say? Although I'm fully aware that gps-based-distance-measurement in a stadium is very difficult and challenging, but: The V800 again performed very good. After 10 laps the V800 said 4,07 km which is less than 2% deviation from reality. And the SSU?? It said 4,31 km (!!!) which is almost 8% difference. 

People from Suunto: Aren't you conducting such simple tests during your quality checks?? I cannot believe that you don't know that or - even worse - ignore that. 8% difference is ridiculous for a 800€ watch. And far from being acceptable. I offer myself happily to support Suunto next time in testing before you go to market. I'm awaiting a software-update and hope that this improves the quality. 

BR Paulchen


----------



## WEM

Hey folks,

today first real usage in mountains: all in all the spartan did a solid job:
We had bad weather - most time raining and fog. Trail was between and near rocks and through wood.
Touch worked, also with wet fingers and wather on the screen. better than awaited. Displayed data was ok for me.
Used also a lot the navigation: ok, but very basic features. Please Suunto bring waypoint view like ambits have, altidude profile and more zoom levels.

The most negative topic was the battery usage: in 5,5h over 40%. this would be only 13.75h of battery life...
I was using good accuracy where Suunto stated 26h. Maybe the navigation switches to best like the Ambits?
For me the Ambit 5sec gps mode was fine. 1sec is not necessary - 60sec is too much.

Track looks ok.

Gesendet von meinem SM-T815 mit Tapatalk


----------



## rdm01

WEM said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> today first real usage in mountains: all in all the spartan did a solid job:
> We had bad weather - most time raining and fog. Trail was between and near rocks and through wood.
> Touch worked, also with wet fingers and wather on the screen. better than awaited. Displayed data was ok for me.
> Used also a lot the navigation: ok, but very basic features. Please Suunto bring waypoint view like ambits have, altidude profile and more zoom levels.
> 
> The most negative topic was the battery usage: in 5,5h over 40%. this would be only 13.75h of battery life...
> I was using good accuracy where Suunto stated 26h. Maybe the navigation switches to best like the Ambits?
> For me the Ambit 5sec gps mode was fine. 1sec is not necessary - 60sec is too much.
> 
> Track looks ok.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem SM-T815 mit Tapatalk


In the owner manual you can read the GPS accuracy changes to max when in navigation mode. So maybe that was the bigger battery usage.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## WEM

than it was maybe ok. the conditions where bad, so it was clear i didn't see stated maximum...

I understand it the other way: only when navigation without training. but could be an error. eigther in the sw or manual...


----------



## NickYanakiev

Cycling is looking good, as expected (all GPS sensors do better when tracking an object moving at a higher speed)

NYanakiev's 0:14 h Cycling Move


----------



## IronP

Based on the feedbacks, we can state that the 18h of battery life claimed by suunto is not real! It would top 14h...!
I wonder how long the battery life is, during the week, by using the SSU as a regular "smart" watch plus some trainings!
I must say, with the A3P I have a great experience about battery life during the week, need to charge it 1x week.


----------



## rdm01

I wonder when will be available a screen setup like this pic...










I mean the field in yellow centered in the screen and the external circle in yellow too. This is the render Suunto is using at the end of page of a SSU's move. I suppose the yellow circle is a HR visual gauge but not sure yet... Somebody else noted that?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Riu

Hi there
For everyone who buyed the new SSU, and considering we are the "Alpha testers", here I show a few notes to consider in the next update. Please add a new one for those you think are unforgivable.
*
Interface*
-Touchscreen lags when go back. Improve responsiveness and quickness
-Better interactivity with menus.

*Settings*
-Notifications. Read up & down, or read again


*Watch face*
-Show the month and year in digital time. Ex Friday 19, August 2016.
-Show the battery life in watch face


*Logbook*
-There is not a delete option for any of the moves. Specially when you start a failed exercise.
-If I delete a move from movescount, it will not disappear in the logbook or in Training from the watch
-Improve short visualization for every exercise. Ex: date, Km and time, rather than time (with the exact hour), and total time of the exercise.
-Possibility to see when a logbook is transfered to movescount (in watch face). It takes a few seconds but it would be nice to see when is complete.


*Exercise*
-Possibility to show not only the percentage of battery life but the remaining hours for completion of the battery. This would be helpful if you want to do a trail running with best gps to see "3 hours left" rather than 20%.
-Inside of any sports->option, backwards with touchscreen doesn't work. Or there is not a back button.
-Improve better configuration for each sports.
-Swimming pool. Problems in recognition 50m after 100m (adds 100m for every 50m)!
-Routes. Better interactivity with more details around the arrow.


*Stopwatch*
-Possibility of a countdown timer


*Navigation*
-Possibility to see the barometer, or even predict the weather


----------



## jimmysalvo

NickYanakiev said:


> Well- they did recently issue a GPS firmware update for the Vertical, did they not? I am under the impression that the update improved things for people. Thus, they seem to be taking user feedback on board.
> If not- I have 3 more weeks to decide if I want to keep a watch that has a nice design but lacks most of its competitors' basic functions like alarms and alti/baro graphs.
> 
> If Suunto want to turn into even more of a niche company than they already are- fine, I guess I will go back to my old trusty Polar V800.


They released an update but there was nothing regarding the GPS. There was only something on the accelerometer driver

Below the changelog:

Suunto Ambit3 Vertical 1.0.31
- New popup screen informing that navigation is off route
- Fixed bug that caused countdown timer to freeze if reset during last second
- Fixed UI translations for "Navigation" and "GPS mode"
- Improvements to support better sync with Movescount
- Fixed extra lap generated by Movescount lap table
- Added missing "pause log" beep if tones setting was "Buttons Off"
- Fixed a bug with accelerometer driver
- Fixed sometimes occurring corruption of GPS track in logbook
- Fixed BLE communication stuck problem


----------



## fotomas

Riu said:


> Hi there
> For everyone who buyed the new SSU, and considering we are the "Alpha testers", here I show a few notes to consider in the next update. Please add a new one for those you think are unforgivable.
> *
> Interface*
> -Touchscreen lags when go back. Improve responsiveness and quickness
> -Better interactivity with menus.
> 
> *Settings*
> -Notifications. Read up & down, or read again
> 
> 
> *Watch face*
> -Show the month and year in digital time. Ex Friday 19, August 2016.
> -Show the battery life in watch face
> 
> 
> *Logbook*
> -There is not a delete option for any of the moves. Specially when you start a failed exercise.
> -If I delete a move from movescount, it will not disappear in the logbook or in Training from the watch
> -Improve short visualization for every exercise. Ex: date, Km and time, rather than time (with the exact hour), and total time of the exercise.
> -Possibility to see when a logbook is transfered to movescount (in watch face). It takes a few seconds but it would be nice to see when is complete.
> 
> 
> *Exercise*
> -Possibility to show not only the percentage of battery life but the remaining hours for completion of the battery. This would be helpful if you want to do a trail running with best gps to see "3 hours left" rather than 20%.
> -Inside of any sports->option, backwards with touchscreen doesn't work. Or there is not a back button.
> -Improve better configuration for each sports.
> -Swimming pool. Problems in recognition 50m after 100m (adds 100m for every 50m)!
> -Routes. Better interactivity with more details around the arrow.
> 
> 
> *Stopwatch*
> -Possibility of a countdown timer
> 
> 
> *Navigation*
> -Possibility to see the barometer, or even predict the weather


Notifications? Read up/down? We Don't even have notifications yet...or?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## Riu

fotomas said:


> Notifications? Read up/down? We Don't even have notifications yet...or?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


SSU paired with Movescount (iphone) can read every notification (email, whatsapp,...) but you can't interact


----------



## johan6504

NickYanakiev said:


> Well- they did recently issue a GPS firmware update for the Vertical, did they not? I am under the impression that the update improved things for people. Thus, they seem to be taking user feedback on board.
> If not- I have 3 more weeks to decide if I want to keep a watch that has a nice design but lacks most of its competitors' basic functions like alarms and alti/baro graphs.
> 
> If Suunto want to turn into even more of a niche company than they already are- fine, I guess I will go back to my old trusty Polar V800.


Then there are two of us. If Suunto fails to fix this in the september release I will most definitely go back to Polar V800. I have no use for high end watch that has bad GPS performance...


----------



## NickYanakiev

Great suggestions- make sure to make Suunto aware of these as well:
HELP US TO MAKE SPARTAN STRONGER - 0%


----------



## NickYanakiev

The thing that has me slightly worried is that the September update is to take place in late September- if Suunto Support are to be trusted on this. This would mean I would have to return the watch before hand as my return window will have expired by that time..


----------



## edit0r

I opened up a ticket to Suunto with some of my problems. I am gonna post my questions with their answers.. just FYI

1. I swim in a 24m pool, there is no custom pool option, can you please implement the option?

"At the moment there are only 4 pool size that you can choose from on the watch. Those options are 25m, 50m, 25yd, and 50yd. To access this, select Pool swimming then swipe up or press lower button to enter the options of that particular sport mode"

2. The watch did not recognize my swimming styles but with other watches, other brands, I did not have this issue.

"Swim styles detection with personal style teaching is still not present on this watch. We will check with our developers if this will be included in the upcoming software updates."

3. I would like Suunto to implement some kind of timeout option (10s, 30s, 1m, 5m) for when the light is set on "toggle" because once you turn it on it stays on till the battery runs out unless you turn it off, of course.

"The backlight has two modes: automatic and toggle. In automatic mode, the backlight comes on with any screen or button press. In toggle mode, you turn the backlight on with a two-finger tap. The backlight stays on until you tap with two fingers again."


Ah, almost forgot... they asked me to take the survey.... again...


----------



## NickYanakiev

Not sure if you guys have noticed this one already- the step tracker is extremely sensitive. Just by typing away on my laptop and waving my hand a bit, I managed to accumulate 15 steps?! It seems Suunto did not any testing whatsoever..


----------



## Riu

How I can adjust the altimeter? In settings->outdoor the auto-adjust (FusedAlti) gives the same results. This I noticed when Strava recognized an error in the real altitude of my running today. Any ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## petem99

Riu said:


> SSU paired with Movescount (iphone) can read every notification (email, whatsapp,...) but you can't interact


That's still better than what we have with Android (i.e. nothing) till they update the Android app! Maybe they'll sort out the other problems at the same time.


----------



## petem99

NickYanakiev said:


> Not sure if you guys have noticed this one already- the step tracker is extremely sensitive. Just by typing away on my laptop and waving my hand a bit, I managed to accumulate 15 steps?! It seems Suunto did not any testing whatsoever..


I'm up to 5092 steps so far today and I haven't left the house. Oops, I mean 5099 by the time I finished typing that (without moving from the desk). I feel fitter already.


----------



## Riu

NickYanakiev said:


> Not sure if you guys have noticed this one already- the step tracker is extremely sensitive. Just by typing away on my laptop and waving my hand a bit, I managed to accumulate 15 steps?! It seems Suunto did not any testing whatsoever..


I didn't say anything about "Activity steps" but I think is pretty innaccurate and a bad joke. However I did a trivial comparison with someone with iPhone and iHealth and the results are quite the same (who cares 200 or 400 steps more?). I prefer to focus on exercise and GPS, the reason why I bought SSU.


----------



## martowl

Larry115 said:


> My black Spartan Ultra is holding up great...no scratches and I'm certainly not going to try and scratch it. I would never do that to a new car...lol. The gentlemen who is not happy with his ultra because he believes it scratches easy, I would suggest sending it back and get the white ultra...problem solved. I do have a question about auto pause. On the Fenix 3 u can set that on all the sports basically, but it appears it's not possible on the ultra...does anyone think this will change with updates. Also, on the run mode it appears to have auto pause set. I've stopped running to test this and my Ultra keep timing. Am I doing something wrong? Also, does anyone have any experience with the ultra sport yet? Because of size I'm wondering if that's not a better choice for me...I don't hike or do 100 mile runs etc......any opinions on the sport?
> thanks, Larry


I would base your decision on the barometer. If you need real-time ascent and descent values you need the Ultra. If you don't need real-time info, the elevation data will get corrected post move and the Sport should work for you. Sport battery life will be 1/2 of Ultra as well so factor that in. On the positive it is much thinner and lighter.


----------



## martowl

NickYanakiev said:


> The thing that has me slightly worried is that the September update is to take place in late September- if Suunto Support are to be trusted on this. This would mean I would have to return the watch before hand as my return window will have expired by that time..


Suunto has been very good at delivering when they stated they would. You can check DCRainmaker on this as well. If the stated updates will make the watch work for you great but don't expect anything beyond what is stated in the update. The Ambits have had excellent updates and implementation of a lot of new features. I would expect several updates for the SSU over the coming year.


----------



## raducanmihai

They are very good at delivering... except when they're not. See the Android app. It became usable and reliable (at least for me) just a few months ago, despite all their promises.
I know that you mean firmware updates, but still...

Ambit 1/2/3 never had these king of bugs when they launched. Suunto was acknowledged and appreciated for bringing solid products to market, thoroughly testing their products before release. What would happen if a dive watch would froze during a deap sea dive? You have a backup, of course, but would you trust that watch again? 

In my opinion, they are playing with their biggest asset: customer trust. They are not Garmin, they don't have the popularity and the money to write it off and move to the next watch.


----------



## snowleopardw

Suunto Customer Support : 00668412 Watch not responding


----------



## snowleopardw

Suunto Customer Support : 00668412 Watch not responding


Dear 睿 王, 
Thank you for contacting suunto.

We are sorry to hear that you are having issue with you suunto spartan ultra.

Regarding with your concern, if you purchase the watch to a retailer, please take the watch to that retailer and have it replace since it does not work. Retailers has a policy where you can return the watch and they will replace it since you just recently received the watch just make sure you provide the proof of purchase.

Should you have any concerns please let us know.

Sincerely,April
Suunto Customer Support Team


----------



## snowleopardw

I will return my Spartan Ultra back, and I'm looking forward the wrist heart rate measurement of Spartan Sport.


----------



## borgelkranz

Some comparisons from a 10k run around a lake. Much foliage:








Measured distances of all devices were virtually the same. For me the SSU did more than fine. And I love its lap summary page!


----------



## snowleopardw




----------



## MiGRcz

Riu said:


> SSU paired with Movescount (iphone) can read every notification (email, whatsapp,...) but you can't interact


Can you scroll through a long notification or not?


----------



## borgelkranz

rdm01 said:


> I wonder when will be available a screen setup like this pic...
> ---snip---
> I mean the field in yellow centered in the screen and the external circle in yellow too.
> deporteporvida.com


The yellow circle visualizes the target that you have set via the excercise's options. As far as I can see, up to now only duration can be set.
My guess: the digits turn yellow once you reached your target?


----------



## anto1980

Is there the SUUNTO logo on your SSU buckle?


----------



## rdm01

anto1980 said:


> Is there the SUUNTO logo on your SSU buckle?


Not in mine!

deporteporvida.com


----------



## WEM

No Suunto logo at my All Black Titanium


----------



## NickYanakiev

I have the logo on my All Black Titanium- weird!!!!


----------



## Tarrylegs

I put a quick review on YouTube can't post link but search for Suunto Spartan ultra review. I am pretty disappointed at how poor the performance is compared to my Ambit 3


----------



## marcomueller

Do you have breadcrumbs in the breadcrumbdisplay if you do a move without a chosen route?


----------



## WEM

marcomueller said:


> Do you have breadcrumbs in the breadcrumbdisplay if you do a move without a chosen route?


Not sure if I did something wrong - but I didn't see also no breadcrumb without chosen route....


----------



## rdm01

WEM said:


> Not sure if I did something wrong - but I didn't see also no breadcrumb without chosen route....


I happened to me also. The problem is when you open a route from the Navigation main menu. Looks like it keeps as default route when you after go for an activity. Before to press start, go down to the context menu and you'll see the previous route is set. You have to press center button and choose the same route name to unset.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## rdm01

borgelkranz said:


> The yellow circle visualizes the target that you have set via the excercise's options. As far as I can see, up to now only duration can be set.
> My guess: the digits turn yellow once you reached your target?


I went for a road run today to test it and the digits don't turn to yellow when reached the target. The yellow circle filled as you noted 

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Riu

MiGRcz said:


> Can you scroll through a long notification or not?


Nope


----------



## edit0r

Tarrylegs said:


> I put a quick review on YouTube can't post link but search for Suunto Spartan ultra review. I am pretty disappointed at how poor the performance is compared to my Ambit 3


Is this your review ?


----------



## WEM

rdm01 said:


> I happened to me also. The problem is when you open a route from the Navigation main menu. Looks like it keeps as default route when you after go for an activity. Before to press start, go down to the context menu and you'll see the previous route is set. You have to press center button and choose the same route name to unset.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Ahhhh. Did also recognize, that route appears still in watch although I removed it in movescount. Maybe because it is set als default?


----------



## rdm01

edit0r said:


> Is this your review ?


After seeing this video I took my Traverse and my SSU and the compass points the same North in both of them. How could be happened with their watches to get such a big difference?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## rdm01

BTW we don't have running index yet in road running. Sad!!

deporteporvida.com


----------



## petem99

edit0r said:


> Is this your review ?


If that is the review, @Tarrylegs you're doing the same thing when scrolling it that I did when I first got the watch, which is to flick it like you might with a mobile phone or tablet. At best that works unreliably, depending on how far you swipe before lifting your finger off the screen, and most of the time you seemed to be lifting off about half way. I thought I might end up preferring to scroll with the buttons because of that, but I soon found out that the best way to swipe is to put your finger at one edge and smoothly slide it all the way to the other edge without lifting off or trying to "flick" it. When I do that, it's pretty much 100% reliable in scrolling the screen. I now do it that way without even thinking about it.

I'd also like to see the battery status shown on most of the watch faces (at least as an option), but once they get the firmware and MovesCount sorted out it should be possible for users to design new watch faces like you can for the Ambits, and someone will probably add one that has whatever you want to see even if Suunto don't add one themselves. In the meantime, if you go up to the Exercise screen it has a battery charge icon and percentage at the bottom. Not as convenient as seeing it on the watch face, but at least it's there.

It is poor that there is no Android support yet and that the alarm clock is missing, but to be fair to Suunto both of those things are mentioned on their web site (alarm clock is due in the next firmware update and Android support some time in September IIRC). I don't think it's any secret that they have a long way to go yet before the firmware and MovesCount are really comprehensive for the SSU, for example being able to change exercise screen layouts, etc, etc, so they do seem to have rushed the watch out a bit early. As you said - if you're not happy with it on that basis then best not to buy one till it's completely finished and been reviewed with everything in place, then see whether it does everything you want.

BTW, the compass works fine on mine (it agrees with my Ambit within a couple of degrees and both are showing the right bearing) and it's only needed calibrating once so far. I wonder if there's a fault on your watch?


----------



## WEM

rdm01 said:


> After seeing this video I took my Traverse and my SSU and the compass points the same North in both of them. How could be happened with their watches to get such a big difference?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


There is IMHO a bug when setting declination. If I set it (~2.5° east in the alps), my compass points everywhere but not north...


----------



## kopis007

You can set one bike speed/cadence pod only and you can't set wheel circumference for the pod. So when you use activity Cycling with cadence you will get wrong distance. On my 80 km route is SSU reporting 77,6 km only (but the tracker is perfect)...


----------



## petem99

anto1980 said:


> Is there the SUUNTO logo on your SSU buckle?


Yes, though it's a bit hard to see with it being black on a black background. (All Black Titanium)


----------



## petem99

WEM said:


> There is IMHO a bug when setting declination. If I set it (~2.5° east in the alps), my compass points everywhere but not north...


I don't know what's happening with your watch there, but you raised a good point as the declination does need to be set correctly, especially in areas with a big declination. Also there was some kind of problem when I first set mine as the declination here is 1 degree West, which is what I set and it all looked ok and the compass was accurate, but later on after it had synced to my PC the compass was out and when I looked at declination on the watch it was minus over 4000 degrees! I then reset it on the watch and set it correctly in MovesCount too (I hadn't looked at it on there before), and since then it's stayed correct after another sync.

So it's worth checking on the watch that declination is ok for anyone with a bad compass reading, even if you already set it once, and make sure the watch and MovesCount are set the same. Then just hope for the best...


----------



## antjoh

Seems like the preassure to release a new product quickly got to Suunto 

Ever since I left Garmin for Suunto because of unfinished features I have been super happy with the rock solid performance of the Ambit. Never once have I worried about my watch freaking out when going out for a run, bike or hike. I just know I can count on the watch. Because of this I've never missed the latest bells and whistles from Garmin.

I'll keep my Ambit3P for now but in the future I may as well look at other brands if the beta bug has finally bitten Suunto too. If you can't trust the device it may as well have all the latest features.

The whole thing makes me sad


----------



## WEM

petem99 said:


> I don't know what's happening with your watch there, but you raised a good point as the declination does need to be set correctly, especially in areas with a big declination. Also there was some kind of problem when I first set mine as the declination here is 1 degree West, which is what I set and it all looked ok and the compass was accurate, but later on after it had synced to my PC the compass was out and when I looked at declination on the watch it was minus over 4000 degrees! I then reset it on the watch and set it correctly in MovesCount too (I hadn't looked at it on there before), and since then it's stayed correct after another sync.
> 
> So it's worth checking on the watch that declination is ok for anyone with a bad compass reading, even if you already set it once, and make sure the watch and MovesCount are set the same. Then just hope for the best...


Very similar story here: set it on watch => ok, synched it => not ok - as far as I remeber it was 90°, set it in movescount to 2.5° & synched => not ok, set it in watch again to 2.5 => not ok, now deactivate in movesount and watch set to 0 - works. No change done until yet because I think is a but - 2 degrees is not so relevant that I can't live without it.


----------



## Zirconn

While there are a lot of missing features, the watch seems to be stable. No crashes or strange things happening during activities.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Luckily for Suunto, the watch is pretty bug free at the moment. Luckily because I am quite close to getting rid of this watch and I do not need many more reasons to send it back. One of the reasons I went back to Suunto after using a Fenix 3/3HR was Ambit3 Peak's great GPS accuracy. I am not sure if my SSU is defective but things are looking very bleak on that front at the moment...


----------



## johan6504

Another run and another great disappointment. SSU cant even follow the road in clear open sky conditions. This is probably even worse than the infamous Fenix 3 GPS tracking...
And yes I have done pre-soak, made sure the watch is in "best" mode. The only thing I refuse to do is to try wearing it facing upward, the watch should be worn as intended. This is a seriously fu..ed up "GPS" watch.


----------



## PTBC

Been traveling and now catching up on the forum and it seems there is a lot of inconsistency in performance relating to GPS; also if the compass is out does that impact the GPS performance, as there was a comment that Suunto have or had a patent/method that involved using the compass with GPS tracking, may explain some of the variability being caused by the compass bug.


----------



## NickYanakiev

No comment...what I am seeing from other users is a lot better than the results you have been getting. My watch is also not performing great so it may be worth getting an exchange just in case there is a hardware fault at play.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

johan6504 said:


> Another run and another great disappointment. SSU cant even follow the road in clear open sky conditions. This is probably even worse than the infamous Fenix 3 GPS tracking...
> And yes I have done pre-soak, made sure the watch is in "best" mode. The only thing I refuse to do is to try wearing it facing upward, the watch should be worn as intended. This is a seriously fu..ed up "GPS" watch.
> 
> View attachment 9122986


I did my first trail run this morning. The it's all along skyline dr. The first half mile is on a paved path and the rest is dirt fire roads up the sides of hills. The gps was off from the start. Clear sky's in Southern California. No big trees. Just running alongside the hills. This was very poor gps performance compared to my Ambit 3 peak. I'll do the run again this week wearing both watches.

Here is a link to my move. 
CarlosYuriar's 0:54 h Trail running Move!


----------



## edit0r

johan6504 said:


> The only thing I refuse to do is to try wearing it facing upward, the watch should be worn as intended.


+1


----------



## capcav73

Phoenixatdawn said:


> I did my first trail run this morning. The it's all along skyline dr. The first half mile is on a paved path and the rest is dirt fire roads up the sides of hills. The gps was off from the start. Clear sky's in Southern California. No big trees. Just running alongside the hills. This was very poor gps performance compared to my Ambit 3 peak. I'll do the run again this week wearing both watches.


Your move looks quite good.??


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

capcav73 said:


> Your move looks quite good.??


When I zoom in on the map my lines are way off the trail. I don't know how to copy or import a zoomed in section of the map to show this. The gps setting was set to best.


----------



## capcav73

Phoenixatdawn said:


> When I zoom in on the map my lines are way off the trail. I don't know how to copy or import a zoomed in section of the map to show this. The gps setting was set to best.


I had the same first impression but i had zoomed too much on the satellite view. The last zoom seems to be a little tilted . on the map view or not on the last zoom on satellite view all is good.


----------



## IronP

No offence, but this thread here is looking like a kickstarter product discussions and not a product coming from a company with the good reputation and experience as suunto!
If suunto is really reading this forum, face it, the watch is NOT ready! You guys should think of working 24/7 to have the firmware update release asap!! And before september, when the watches will be at the stores available for sale in many countries.
Really, I don´t get it about the suunto management decision, of releasing the SSU at this stage of development!!


----------



## marcomueller

rdm01 said:


> I happened to me also. The problem is when you open a route from the Navigation main menu. Looks like it keeps as default route when you after go for an activity. Before to press start, go down to the context menu and you'll see the previous route is set. You have to press center button and choose the same route name to unset.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Yes man! It works... Thanks a lot!


----------



## edit0r

IronP said:


> If suunto is really reading this forum, face it, the watch is NOT ready! You guys should think of working 24/7 to have the firmware update release asap!!


I am sure that they are reading and monitoring and I am sure that in September we are gonna see the first big wave of improvements.

Let's give them some love guys !!!!

GO SUUNTO !!!!! You can do it !!!


----------



## MiGRcz

I played with it in a store. And it is not worth of money at this point. It is overpriced toy with less features than F3. Don't get me wrong, I am Suunto fan but this is big mistake. Really Alpha quality product. I am really considering switch to F3HR. We will see what September bring. Moreover I would appreciate a roadmap from Suunto.


----------



## NickYanakiev

This looks bad indeed- make sure you open a ticket to Suunto Support and provide them with the link to your activity. I already submitted a couple of reports and am awaiting an engineer's response by end of tomorrow.


----------



## NickYanakiev

edit0r said:


> I am sure that they are reading and monitoring and I am sure that in September we are gonna see the first big wave of improvements.
> 
> Let's give them some love guys !!!!
> 
> GO SUUNTO !!!!! You can do it !!!


I hope so too. For me, though, GPS inconsistency is what worries me the most at present. Features can be added and removed if the engineers are gifted and there is enough space on the watch. Hardware constraints, however, cannot..


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Phoenixatdawn said:


> I did my first trail run this morning. The it's all along skyline dr. The first half mile is on a paved path and the rest is dirt fire roads up the sides of hills. The gps was off from the start. Clear sky's in Southern California. No big trees. Just running alongside the hills. This was very poor gps performance compared to my Ambit 3 peak. I'll do the run again this week wearing both watches.
> 
> Here is a link to my move.
> CarlosYuriar's 0:54 h Trail running Move!


Here is a link to the same route (a little shorter) with my A3P from earlier this year. When I use google maps to look at the routes the A3P seems to follow the path much more closely. If anyone knows how to overlap the two feel free to compare.

CarlosYuriar's 0:40 h Running Move


----------



## Ingo

edit0r said:


> I am sure that they are reading and monitoring and I am sure that in September we are gonna see the first big wave of improvements.
> 
> Let's give them some love guys !!!!
> 
> GO SUUNTO !!!!! You can do it !!!


I don't think so. First they want to take our money for a rushed and unfinished product that's way below the quality standards we're used from them and then we should cut them some slack?? They brazenly just cashed in on our long-built trust and their previous record. They ran fully conscious and open-eyed into this near disaster so no love from me at least. You deliver this kind of result in whatever job you do you're putting yourself seriously at risk of getting fired. It's not that they have a monopoly on GPS watches.

Potential buyers like myself do catch onto these things and this forum helps lot to educate and avoid very frustrating and time consuming experiences. This time I am just clapping myself on the shoulder for having dodged this bullet - and I badly wanted this watch!


----------



## Nes111

As a whole this watch is a huge disappointment and a marketing fiasco. I have owned the Ambit1, Ambit 3Hr Peak and the Traverse. I also own the Garmin Fenix3 Hr and with all the previous Suuntos' I got a quality product that worked as advertised. The Garmin Fenix 3 HR certainly delivers and it still impresses me. I was hopinf this watch would have some wow factor especially for the money, even the strap is made from cheap plastic or rubber. I am returning my watch this week and wait for the Fenix 4. Sorry Sunnto but I dont like being given false expectations.


----------



## raducanmihai

I pretty sure edit0r was sarcastic. Just read his complaints with his Spartan. He's upset (rightly so) that Suunto used his customers for beta testing. And, as someone already said, it would be great if the problems are only on a firmware/software level, those can be fixed. But hardware problems (eg GPS reception, touch screen responsiveness etc) are impossible to fix.


----------



## WEM

guys, this thread is going into an emotional offtopic suunto bashing. can we go back to real problems / solution. this would help suunto much more to improve the product.

Gesendet von meinem SM-T815 mit Tapatalk


----------



## borgelkranz

WEM said:


> guys, this thread is going into an emotional offtopic suunto bashing. can we go back to real problems / solution. this would help suunto much more to improve the product.


Yes please!


----------



## IronP

OMG....I am very happy (hope that this feeling is the right one), just got my SSU all black titanium as a late birthday surprise!
So, I already put it to update and everything is going well.....update in progress.


----------



## johan6504

WEM said:


> guys, this thread is going into an emotional offtopic suunto bashing. can we go back to real problems / solution. this would help suunto much more to improve the product.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem SM-T815 mit Tapatalk


I agree, but Suunto has to start talking to us as well...
I have opened to 4 support tickets with Suunto. Two about wildly inaccurate GPS tracks and GPS performance. One about battery consumption/drainage and one question about STRYD integration. So far I haven't heard anything from them. The only response I have gotten is an automatic mail saying that they have a lot of questions coming in and that it might take a while before they can answer. Suunto support is really no better than their buggy watches right now :-(


----------



## WEM

johan6504 said:


> I agree, but Suunto has to start talking to us as well...
> I have opened to 4 support tickets with Suunto. Two about wildly inaccurate GPS tracks and GPS performance. One about battery consumption/drainage and one question about STRYD integration. So far I haven't heard anything from them. The only response I have gotten is an automatic mail saying that they have a lot of questions coming in and that it might take a while before they can answer. Suunto support is really no better than their buggy watches right now :-(


Agree with you. I would wish also a better interaction..
It would be good when Suunto communicates a list of known issues and comments issues in a official way.... this would also lead into a smaller amount of requests.


----------



## rdm01

johan6504 said:


> I agree, but Suunto has to start talking to us as well...
> I have opened to 4 support tickets with Suunto. Two about wildly inaccurate GPS tracks and GPS performance. One about battery consumption/drainage and one question about STRYD integration. So far I haven't heard anything from them. The only response I have gotten is an automatic mail saying that they have a lot of questions coming in and that it might take a while before they can answer. Suunto support is really no better than their buggy watches right now :-(


Their buggy watches? Which ones? I have owned A2, A3 Peak, A3 Sport, 2 x A3 Vertical, Traverse and now SSU. Didn't have any problem with them. Some of them got better GPS performance than others. A3 Vertical GPS was usable instead "horrible GPS" or "fiasco". My SSU haven't any bug so far. There are some missing features but no bugs at all (some users reported problems with their units but maybe they're faulty units).

BTW there's not perfect GPS watch. GPS technology isn't perfect at all. The more expectatives you got the more disappointed you'll be with any thing you buy.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## WEM

Try to summarize what I can reproduce till yet:
(Missing features not added)

Battery consumption
· In GPS “best accuracy” mode (1sec fix) slightly more consumption than awaited: reproducible 6-7% per hour instead of 5,5%, 14,28…16,67 hours of livetime insteat of 18
· In GPS “good accuracy” mode (sec power save fix) same consumption than in “best accuracy”: reproducible 6-7% per hour
· High battery consumption in sleep mode, 2-3% in the night when watch is placed somewhere

Functionality:
· Reference altitude can’t be set higher than 400m
· There’s some strange behavior with compass: setting declination in movescount vs. setting in watch – sometimes lead into wrong values (90° declination or much more). I did only manage to run compass without declination.
· Battery icon shows full battery all the time
· SuuntoLink: Routes are only synchronized to watch when also moves from watch to Movescount are synchronized

Usability/Interaction:
· Some use steps are not logical: e.g. why I have to wipe do open a move in logbook? Why not tip?
· Going back from options menu before starting an exercise is only possible with buttons
· It is necessary to make very clear wipes / tips. Could be required this way to avoid unwanted use (undefined wipes over watch while in sport mode)
· Strange behavior when setting a route: default route is chosen automatically and need to be unset manually

GPS Issues:
· Accuracy is not as high as awaited from a lot of people: not really reproducible for me / Ambit2/Traverse delivers comparable accuracy


----------



## johan6504

rdm01 said:


> Their buggy watches? Which ones? I have owned A2, A3 Peak, A3 Sport, 2 x A3 Vertical, Traverse and now SSU. Didn't have any problem with them. Some of them got better GPS performance than others. A3 Vertical GPS was usable instead "horrible GPS" or "fiasco". My SSU haven't any bug so far. There are some missing features but no bugs at all (some users reported problems with their units but maybe they're faulty units).
> 
> BTW there's not perfect GPS watch. GPS technology isn't perfect at all. The more expectatives you got the more disappointed you'll be with any thing you buy.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Well... I would call the wildly inaccurate GPS tracking a BIG bug. The way it works for me makes SSU practically unusable for any real training. I have seen that it seems to work for some but for me it is a complete disaster, and Suunto isn't answering my support tickets...

Two runs with with SSU, if this isn't a bug but something I will have to live with, then fu.. Suunto...


----------



## WEM

johan6504 said:


> Well... I would call the wildly inaccurate GPS tracking a BIG bug. The way it works for me makes SSU practically unusable for any real training. I have seen that it seems to work for some but for me it is a complete disaster, and Suunto isn't answering my support tickets...
> 
> Two runs with with SSU, if this isn't a bug but something I will have to live with, then fu.. Suunto...


This looks not good, agree.
Did you wear a second watch *same* time (To avoid GPS system as root cause)?

I have recorded a track on sunday in demanding terrain in mountains: bad weather, high rocks, trees, ...
My tracks looks not that bad. In any case, not worse than the Ambit 2 track and the track of my wifes Traverse.


----------



## Tarrylegs

Have a look at this review


----------



## Tarrylegs

edit0r said:


> Tarrylegs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I put a quick review on YouTube can't post link but search for Suunto Spartan ultra review. I am pretty disappointed at how poor the performance is compared to my Ambit 3
> 
> 
> 
> Is this your review ?
Click to expand...

It is:smile:


----------



## capcav73

@Johan6504 (and others),

First, sorry for my french english.

Your tracks "looks" bad, but it's look strange as well.
as you started your move, the tracks seems fine, but at the end the tracks does not match with the beginning despite the fact the shape looks following a path shifted some meters besides.

I read as well the compass settings problems and the fact that GPS accuracy could be compass linked.

Could it be possible that compass badly influence GPS ""accuracy"" in shifting the recorded track ?
Have you checked your compass settings (declination and calibration) ?


----------



## NickYanakiev

I thought compass declination settings may be the culprit here. Can anyone advise how I need to set up compass declination for my area? I live in London, UK. I tried finding information online but could not find any step by step guide or general compass declination setup instructions....


----------



## WEM

declination for London is 0,4° west (-0,4°). You can only set 1/2° steps: -0.5° or 0.5° west. (Magnetic Declination)
Set it eigther in movescount under general oder directly in watch under navigation options.

Ensure that after setting declination and calibrating compass, the compass points in the right direction. If not, repeat calibration/declination settings.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Thank you- I had my watch ready to be taken back to the retailer I got it from. I guess this can wait for me to do some more testing. 
Hopefully I will see some better performance this time around.


----------



## XCJagge

I don't think compass has got anything to do with this. I haven't set any declinations and haven't tried it after latest firmware update.

I don't think I could record with my SSU the kind of track *johan6504* has done twice (or gets every time?). I could wait to make SGEE outdated and start without good fix and the first part of the run wouldbe bad, but it fix would get better on the run and the rest would be better, not the other way around. I suspect there may be something wrong with that device, antenna soldering is faulty or something.

What it comes to *Phoenixatdawn*'s skyline run the map data in tilted satellite view is off. When you zoom in and see it getting tilted you can click symbol in bottom right corner of the map to set tilt off and see it correctly in zoomed in.

Turning screen up mostly just fixes that 2..8 m offset one typically get with wrist gps watches. It doesn't magically improve everything and make normally all whacked tracks recording devices to record perfectly. So no using that trick unless the device already records pretty perfectly but with some meters offset to watch hand's side. And if one actually wants that offset getting perfected like that, most dosn't need that since most doesn't use that trick with A3 or v800 either.


----------



## anto1980

No screws on the bezel and no screws on the back! How to disassemble???


----------



## johan6504

WEM said:


> This looks not good, agree.
> Did you wear a second watch *same* time (To avoid GPS system as root cause)?
> 
> I have recorded a track on sunday in demanding terrain in mountains: bad weather, high rocks, trees, ...
> My tracks looks not that bad. In any case, not worse than the Ambit 2 track and the track of my wifes Traverse.


The runs I have done with SSU lately is on a trail I have done more than 60 times and I know it very well. I have compared it with TomTom runner and Polat V800 so I know what to expect. The picture you see is on a hill with clear sky, not demanding at all. Later on this 6.8K run there is forest and I get the same strange behavior there.

I have done runs with both watches and there is definitely something very wrong with the SSU at this point. As I said I have a support ticket with Suunto since a week back but I dont get any response from them...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

WEM said:


> guys, this thread is going into an emotional offtopic suunto bashing. can we go back to real problems / solution. this would help suunto much more to improve the product.


Totally agree. Pretty remarkable. I have been purchasing AND USING multisport watches for their intended purpose for many years. I think what might be going on here is Suunto may have been considered MIA, after the release of so many watches by its competitors in the recent past. That happened without a single modern interface option being put out into the market by Suunto. Now they sort of come back from the dead with a kick ass multisport watch and the competition is freaking out, getting all sorts of marketing ploys into action here.

The Spartan Ultra hardware is absolutely fantastic. Beats anything I have seen in a long time. So all the freaking out and general despair is understandable.


----------



## Hecke

rdm01 said:


> In the owner manual you can read the GPS accuracy changes to max when in navigation mode. So maybe that was the bigger battery usage.


With my Ambit2S I consistently have the short battery life of maximum accuracy GPS when turning on navigation. I wrote to Suunto but got only dissatisfying answers, which might be due to language problems. 
My experience is that using navigation will turn on max GPS accuracy mode and thus drain your battery. Which is a pity when running long races where an occasional check of the route is necessary, but 18 hours are not sufficient... I tried to turn off navigation after getting a glimpse on the actual situation, and this seems to help with the battery, but I need directions when I reach a turn and not wait for a minute until the navigation is fully fired up.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Just spoke with Cotswold Outdoor and ordered a replacement watch. It should be coming either today or later this week. 
I will make sure to report back with the results of the tests I carry out with the new unit.

I really hope GPS on the replacement is better than what I am seeing currently..


----------



## IronP

Just did a small bike ride 3.5km with my SSU and the gps route seems good so far. However no big obstacles for the gps signal and clear sky!
I intended to make a comparison with my V800 but this is down and unusable due to the battery expansion problem...! (My 4th V800 2x blues and 2 blacks).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NickYanakiev

I did a couple of bike rides to test the SSU- here is one: NYanakiev's 0:14 h Cycling Move
Bike rides are, in general, problem-free due to higher speed compared to running/walking/hiking. Thus, even my watch that is slightly problematic in the GPS department, can produce good looking cycling tracks.


----------



## johan6504

XCJagge said:


> I don't think compass has got anything to do with this. I haven't set any declinations and haven't tried it after latest firmware update.
> 
> I don't think I could record with my SSU the kind of track *johan6504* has done twice (or gets every time?). I could wait to make SGEE outdated and start without good fix and the first part of the run wouldbe bad, but it fix would get better on the run and the rest would be better, not the other way around. I suspect there may be something wrong with that device, antenna soldering is faulty or something.


Talked to Suunto support today and they confirm that the developers are looking into a bug related to update of SGEE data. I was asked to do a forced firmware update in order to get proper data back. I will do so and report back...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

The Spartan Ultra includes the magnetic charging cable but not a charger. So we are left with the choice of picking the charger. There are chargers out there that will cause charging to take longer than others. And that is true for any device. I'm using an iPhone 5 charger. 

There isn't much pointing out of the facts first here, to then coming together to an understanding by question/answer from the community. Posters here brute force the issue and highlight the deficiencies first.


----------



## WEM

johan6504 said:


> Talked to Suunto support today and they confirm that the developers are looking into a bug related to update of SGEE data. I was asked to do a forced firmware update in order to get proper data back. I will do so and report back...


What irks me most is, that Suunto doesn't start talking with us. What's the problem in commenting FAQ section on suunto page or just communicating a issue list...


----------



## NickYanakiev

Brief walk in the area where I work after setting compass declination and calibrating the compass:
NYanakiev's 0:14 h Running Move

The first part looks great for a walk at a slow speed, while the latter part is naturally distorted by the high rise buildings in the area.


----------



## rdm01

Today I went for a MTB ride in a challenge area (deep forest). I know the faster the better for gps tracking but this time the track was sooooo well plotted that I have to share with all of you.

I'm very happy with the GPS accuracy my unit got. Of course I doesn't mean the people who complaining haven't any problem but mine is doing very good.

Cheers!

RicardoDiazMartin 0:52 h Mountain biking Move


----------



## NickYanakiev

Looks good indeed! My experience during cycling is very similar. Had it looked like this while running/walking (for me at least), I would be a very happy bunny.


----------



## bruceames

Well of course the SSU will track good for cycling because the antenna is pointing to the sky (assuming it's mounted on the handlebar facing up). But for running and wrist wear, it will never be properly oriented to the sky like the Ambits. It's just the nature of the beast and no amount of FW updates is going to change that.


----------



## rdm01

bruceames said:


> Well of course the SSU will track good for cycling because the antenna is pointing to the sky (assuming it's mounted on the handlebar). But for running and wrist wear, it will never be properly oriented to the sky like the Ambits. It's just the nature of the beast and no amount of FW updates is going to change that.


This time the SSU was on my right hand

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Unperson

Hi everyone, I'm new to these forums. I've been lurking for a few weeks but since I'm also a SSU owner I thought I'd join in with my own experiences.

Overall I find the watch to be promising but a bit underwhelming at the moment. I'm only using it for running now, which works fine. I'm not as obsessed with perfect GPS positioning on a map as some of you are but my experiences are OK. Yes, movescount sometimes plots me a bit off the path I was running on, especially in the parts of my regular run which have the highest trees but it's never as totally off as I've seen in some of your examples, so maybe there are some faulty units or GPS coverage is, on average, better or worse in some parts of the world (I'm in the Netherlands).

I have more problems with the navigation side of things. Is it at all possible to just tell the watch to start building a map from where you are at the moment? So just go somewhere, start hiking and have the watch show the breadcrumb display so you can find your way back? I can't seem to manage it, it always wants to start from a predefined route, which I can't switch off (or I don't know how, I've tried selecting it on the watch). This is a bit of a bummer. I can live with POI's and such being added later but we have a vacation upcoming and I was hoping to just be able to get out in the woods, hit start, and be able to just backtrack visually by the breadcrumbs, if necessary (we usually follow trails so the GPS is just a backup/visual tool to compare our track with a map, that sort of thing). 

If that isn't possible I guess I'll have to predefine two point routes for our destinations as a sort of workaround. Any clues anyone?


----------



## dogrunner

Has the breadcrumb trail been implemented yet, or is that in the next firmware update? That is the main thing I find missing from the Ambit series, that I really find useful.


----------



## WEM

No - it is there yet! (but nobody talks about more features than awaited  )


----------



## bruceames

rdm01 said:


> This time the SSU was on my right hand
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I don't cycle anymore (it's been many years) but even if it's worn on the wrist the watch face would seem to be in a much better position (not to mention being stationary) than when running. But I guess that depends on how you grip the handlebars.


----------



## Unperson

Unperson said:


> Hi everyone, I'm new to these forums. I've been lurking for a few weeks but since I'm also a SSU owner I thought I'd join in with my own experiences.
> 
> I have more problems with the navigation side of things. Is it at all possible to just tell the watch to start building a map from where you are at the moment? So just go somewhere, start hiking and have the watch show the breadcrumb display so you can find your way back? I can't seem to manage it, it always wants to start from a predefined route, which I can't switch off (or I don't know how, I've tried selecting it on the watch). This is a bit of a bummer. I can live with POI's and such being added later but we have a vacation upcoming and I was hoping to just be able to get out in the woods, hit start, and be able to just backtrack visually by the breadcrumbs, if necessary (we usually follow trails so the GPS is just a backup/visual tool to compare our track with a map, that sort of thing).


Update on this: You cannot just start navigation without some trail (as far as I know) but I did manage to start a hike without one. In the screen with the start button, wait for the options thing to pop up and then very carefully click on the 'route' tag until it says '--'. Then you can go start the hike, and it has no map, and it does keep a breadcrumb trail.

But it's hardly usable, for several reasons. I could only use 2 zoom levels, 0.1km and 20km, so getting an overview is impossible. And there are no 'turn around' or 'stop and save as route' options. It also does not save a route based on your hike to the watch, there's also nothing useful in the logbook. So it seems that right now you can only go hiking in a practical way with preloaded routes. If the watch would at least save a route to the watch after a hike activity you could open that to navigate back along it, but alas, you can't. Let's hope the hiking mode gets a usability bump in the next update.


----------



## silentvoyager

johan6504 said:


> Well... I would call the wildly inaccurate GPS tracking a BIG bug. The way it works for me makes SSU practically unusable for any real training. I have seen that it seems to work for some but for me it is a complete disaster, and Suunto isn't answering my support tickets...
> 
> Two runs with with SSU, if this isn't a bug but something I will have to live with, then fu.. Suunto...
> 
> View attachment 9130098
> View attachment 9130114


I had something similar on Ambit3 once which made me to realize that the compass declination was mistakenly set to 16 degrees W instead of correct 16 degrees E. So in my case the difference. was 32 degrees from the correct one. I don't know for sure but suspect that Ambit and possibly SSU use compass and accelerometer to predict where the next trackpoint should be when GPS reception is failing for whatever reason. Giving the issues with setting magnetic declanation on SSU mentioned in this thread I wouldn't be surprised if that has anything to do with accuracy. I wish Suunto clarified the role of magnetic declination in assisting the navigation / producing the GPS track. The information about this is almost non-existent. Anyone has anything to add to this?


----------



## PTBC

Hiking will be one of my uses for the watch so certainly will be looking for an improvement, in the compare features list on the Suunto shop site it had at least the same level of navigation functions as earlier Ambits so hopefully it's only a matter of when it will be implemented.


----------



## borgelkranz

NickYanakiev said:


> I thought compass declination settings may be the culprit here[...]


Today I set the compass declination in my SSU and, alas, the GPS performance was a mess. Certainly just weak correlation and no causality...

This screenshot shows the route I was running. It's a course that is surveyed (2,1 km):








The three rounds recorded with the SSU look like this:








My friends Forerunne 235 recorded the same run as follows:








Garmin 1, Suunto 0, it seems...


----------



## WEM

borgelkranz said:


> Today I set the compass declination in my SSU and, alas, the GPS performance was a mess. Certainly just weak correlation and no causality...
> 
> This screenshot shows the route I was running. It's a course that is surveyed (2,1 km):
> View attachment 9134858
> 
> 
> The three rounds recorded with the SSU look like this:
> View attachment 9134874
> 
> 
> My friends Forerunne 235 recorded the same run as follows:
> View attachment 9134970
> 
> 
> Garmin 1, Suunto 0, it seems...


WTF is this 

Does your compass work (points to north) properly after setting declination? Declination settings doesn't work on my unit....


----------



## WEM

Like to provide screenshots from my track to show mine is close to real but:

bing maps:









google maps:









in movesount:









whats this? google maps seems to be not ok?


----------



## johan6504

Sent Suunto diagnostics, re-installed the firmware, paired the pulse belt, GPS soaked the watch and went out to test again. The result i exactly the same as before ;-( 
I have sent Suunto the info and asked if they would consider changing the watch, something is clearly very wrong here.

http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119698990


----------



## WEM

johan6504 said:


> Sent Suunto diagnostics, re-installed the firmware, paired the pulse belt, GPS soaked the watch and went out to test again. The result i exactly the same as before ;-(
> I have sent Suunto the info and asked if they would consider changing the watch, something is clearly very wrong here.
> 
> http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119698990
> 
> 
> View attachment 9135658


reproducable. i think it's a software issue. hw issues tend to be present all the time or only sporadic.

Gesendet von meinem SM-T815 mit Tapatalk


----------



## NickYanakiev

Forced firmware update and let the watch soak for 20-25 minutes. Results below:

NYanakiev's 0:20 h Running Move soak 
NYanakiev's 0:05 h Running Move run (no, that's not where I went)


----------



## tinu80

Here's a track from my trailrun this afternoon:







To me the track looks quite ok. Conditions were of course 'easy' for GPS reception. No trees.
I will post a track from a more challenging run in the next days, compared to my good old Forerunner 210
Some other thougths on the watch:
-(dry) touchscreen works better than expected, but you have to slow down your gestures. probably suunto could improve the swiping via firmware (swipe should occur before you travelled the whole display with your fingertip)
-wet touchscreen hardly wont work, as dcrainmaker mentioned before. maybe with 2-3 drops of water it works, but clearly not when really wet. this is probably not possible to change by firmware improvement.
-at the moment, you cannot adjust the altitude above 400 m. this is really a pain in the ..., especially if you live at 1400 m like me... hope suunto fixes this asap.

tinu


----------



## bluelee333633

WEM said:


> WTF is this
> 
> Does your compass work (points to north) properly after setting declination? Declination settings doesn't work on my unit....


if the compass has something to do with the GPS accuracy, then I am afraid of the magnetic charger that SSU have.

You can not place a magnetic device near the watch, it will effects your compass direction very much.

One needs to calibrate the compass everytime after the charging I guess.

I dont have SSU yet, considering it.

PS:

doesn't anyone test the pool swimming function of the SSU yet?

I am expecting that SSU has pace vibration alert (for example: with 1:45 per 100 pace, the watch vibrates every 1minute45seconds.)
while One doing swiming workouts so that One can control the swimming pace to get trained.


----------



## anto1980

My SSU Run Move:

http://www.movescount.com/it/moves/move119691097


----------



## borgelkranz

WEM said:


> WTF is this
> 
> Does your compass work (points to north) properly after setting declination? Declination settings doesn't work on my unit....


Declination at my location is +2°. So the difference is not really visible. I re-calibrated the compass after entering the declination and it pointed north.
By now I have filed a support request at Suunto's. I want to know whether this setting has impact on GPS or not. As things stand now, this issues is mere speculation.

Additionally I reset my watch by forcing a firmware upgrade. Now I wonder what my next run will bring...


----------



## Riu

I've done 2 runnings (one is a trail) that strava recommended me to correct the altitude. The GPS track is very good. Is this due to the calibration of the barometer? Because altitude is auto adjusted. Anyone had the same problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rdm01

Riu said:


> I've done 2 runnings (one is a trail) that strava recommended me to correct the altitude. The GPS track is very good. Is this due to the calibration of the barometer? Because altitude is auto adjusted. Anyone had the same problem?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is not a problem at all. Strava usually does that "recommendation" for every activity made with an GPS device with barometric altimeter. Ignore that. Your SSU is more accurate than getting altitude from a map.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Riu

rdm01 said:


> This is not a problem at all. Strava usually does that "recommendation" for every activity made with an GPS device with barometric altimeter. Ignore that. Your SSU is more accurate than getting altitude from a map.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I didn't know that. Thank you! Well, now I've got 2 "corrected" runnings...


----------



## WEM

borgelkranz said:


> Declination at my location is +2°. So the difference is not really visible. I re-calibrated the compass after entering the declination and it pointed north.
> By now I have filed a support request at Suunto's. I want to know whether this setting has impact on GPS or not. As things stand now, this issues is mere speculation.
> 
> Additionally I reset my watch by forcing a firmware upgrade. Now I wonder what my next run will bring...


Where did you set declination? Movescount or direectly on watch?

I tried it again yesterday:
* Set both to zero: deactivate in movescount, watch to 0°. Than synching watch. Everythings fine
* Then I did enter 2.5° east in movescount and synched watch. After this the watch wants me to recalibrate compass. Done this the compass points in wrong direction... checking declination setting in options menu at the watch discovers that there appears only a "°" (degree symbol) without any number. Going into the declination options on watch shows 90°...
* Setting declination in watch only does work until I first snych with movescount. After synching compass points again in wrong direction

So I think there's somthing wrong with synch. Maybe caused by using decimals and not intergers like you?

But for a compass that has a deviation of +-5° it is not so relevant if declination is set or not (2,5° vs. +-5°). This doens't make much difference...

BTW: I dicovered no difference in compass after watch was connected to charger when compass was working properly before connecting...


----------



## edit0r

Guys, I know I criticized a lot the watch BUT I have to say that while cycling in the city I did NOT have any problems with the GPS tracking... in fact it was GREAT. I have an montain bike and while riding it my watch face is always up. It's also true that given the hand position on the handlebar my Fenix 3 is also able to perform well. What I am trying to say is that I did not have any strange quirks and I've taken some roads that have many trees and small buildings (houses) left and right, I've ridden my bike slow 5-7km/h and fast 25-30km/h... it did not matter... the tracking was very good.

I did not had a run with it yet so I can't comment on that. 

Given the mixed GPS performances I've seen so far I would say that we NEED to wait for the september patch and in the meantime send tickets to Suunto to report the various problems and bugs and explain in detail the problems so they can reproduce them with ease. Also we need to be patient because given the early firmware stage I am sure they are swamped with tickets. 

So I encourage everyone to post here but also to Suunto and wait patiently... 

Thank you !


----------



## borgelkranz

WEM said:


> Where did you set declination? Movescount or direectly on watch?
> 
> I tried it again yesterday:
> * Set both to zero: deactivate in movescount, watch to 0°. Than synching watch. Everythings fine
> * Then I did enter 2.5° east in movescount and synched watch. After this the watch wants me to recalibrate compass. Done this the compass points in wrong direction... checking declination setting in options menu at the watch discovers that there appears only a "°" (degree symbol) without any number. Going into the declination options on watch shows 90°...
> * Setting declination in watch only does work until I first snych with movescount. After synching compass points again in wrong direction
> 
> So I think there's somthing wrong with synch. Maybe caused by using decimals and not intergers like you?
> 
> But for a compass that has a deviation of +-5° it is not so relevant if declination is set or not (2,5° vs. +-5°). This doens't make much difference...
> 
> BTW: I dicovered no difference in compass after watch was connected to charger when compass was working properly before connecting...


I set it directly in the watch, because I did not have the cable with me. After syncing with Movescount I checked the watche's settings and noticed that the declination did not sync: the *Use compass declination *checkbox was cleared.
So yes, something seems to be odd with synchronizing compass declination...


----------



## Unperson

This seems bugged to me too. Yesterday I set the declination to 1 in both watch and movescount and then synced. I just checked and the watch is at 0.00 again. Meh.


----------



## IronP

There is something weird with the sync via app. Even if the sync is complete, in movescount I see a message "new settings are not synced", but I cannot see any missing settings that were not synced. 
Now, if I do the synced with the cable, everything is fine.
Anyone having the same behaviour?


----------



## Unperson

Yeah, I see that. And the moveslink application gets stuck on "improving GPS" or something forever.

I think a lot of things are still generically very buggy with the SSU. I've just been trying to fill in a contact form through the movescount site and that also failed. Or they have 20 messages by now but the site gave me a generic 'something went wrong' message so I cannot file a bug report or suggestions. 

On another (sadly also not positive) note: the black titanium bezel scratches rather easily. I've been wearing the watch for a week now and there are some (small) points on the top rim of the watch where the black paint has worn off. I didn't do any outside activity besides running, it must have scratched due to contacts with tables or the odd door. No biggie for me but this thing won't look like a dress watch in a couple of months . Maybe this is why most watches have an unfinished metal bezel. Mine will gain that over time.


----------



## edit0r

Unperson said:


> On another (sadly also not positive) note: the black titanium bezel scratches rather easily.


After I got the Fenix 3 HR with the dark bezel and discovered that it does scratch easily leaving bad looking silver shiny marks I decided not to risk a black bezel on Spartan.... 
The upside if that the bezel on the Spartan is very thin and I think the scratches are not so visible (bad looking)....

Can post a picture please ?

Thank you !


----------



## WEM

This is basically the same than with A2 black.... Avoidable only by taking the watch with unpainted steel.... but that's not the my style :-(
I've hit my SSU titanium against a wall yesterday. But nothing happens: no scratches


----------



## anto1980

My Suunto family. No scratches on the bezels! :heart:


----------



## IronP

Today I did a bike move where I usually ride but this time I used the SSU facing down. I know by heart the route and I know that the distance is 3.4km ~ 3.5km.....measured by many different ways and gadges.
The total from SSU was 3.45Km and the route is pretty smooth, exactly the same as an another ride that I did with the SSU facing up.
Today I plan an open water training....lets see!


----------



## rdm01

Unperson said:


> I've just been trying to fill in a contact form through the movescount site and that also failed. Or they have 20 messages by now but the site gave me a generic 'something went wrong' message so I cannot file a bug report or suggestions.


Also happened to me. It's quite ironic the Suunto's bug report system is buggy itself XD

deporteporvida.com


----------



## jarekben

SUUNTO SPARTAN SOFTWARE RELEASE 1.1.24

Possibility to answer upcoming phone calls on the watch
Multisport support for selecting a new sport mode during training
Triathlon sport mode to support swim-t1-bike-t2-run sequence
Favorite modes shown when starting exercise with an option to select other modes
All sport modes updated to show the most relevant values
New sport modes e.g. running with power, running on track, interval mode for cycling etc.
Vertical speed values available in selected sport modes
Breadcrumb view shown in modes where GPS is used
New activities: obstacle racing
Summary displays autolaps/manuals laps which can be browsed
Summary doesn't show laps if those weren't used
Multisport has some activity specific values
Better visual look and feel for displays during sport
Move type (i.e. race, interval) stored based on the sport mode type
Touch enabled for interactions to go back and forth in various displays
Several bug fixes and performance improvements
Does anyone know what possibility to answer upcoming phone calls on the watch means? Has anyone noticed a microphone or speaker on the watch?


----------



## ifarlow

jarekben said:


> Does anyone know what possibility to answer upcoming phone calls on the watch means? Has anyone noticed a microphone or speaker on the watch?


My guess: it's similar to what can be done on the latest Garmin devices. An alert appears on the watch to indicate an incoming call, and the user can select "answer" as an option. From there, the phone answers the call, not the watch. It's a strange implementation, for sure, and I'm betting Suunto has done something similar.


----------



## IronP

ifarlow said:


> My guess: it's similar to what can be done on the latest Garmin devices. An alert appears on the watch to indicate an incoming call, and the user can select "answer" as an option. From there, the phone answers the call, not the watch. It's a strange implementation, for sure, and I'm betting Suunto has done something similar.


Yes, I can confirm! Its exactly like this! Btw, the feature is also available in the polar v800.
Comes handy when you are using earphones and the mobile is in your pocket! You can see who is calling in the watch and choose to answer or not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ifarlow

Earbuds. Yep, that's a scenario I had not considered where this implementation would make sense.


----------



## edit0r

anto1980 said:


> My Suunto family. No scratches on the bezels! :heart:


You are one lucky guy... for having such nice watches  and all scratch free !

Is like you just bought them  Bravo !

I am happy for you mate !


----------



## edit0r

jarekben said:


> Does anyone know what possibility to answer upcoming phone calls on the watch means? Has anyone noticed a microphone or speaker on the watch?


In case you have the phone hooked to an bluetooth hands free kit (or wired headset) you can answer from the watch and not the BT headset... that's what I think it means... haven't test it though (I have an android phone and it does not work on it)


----------



## alldayruckoff

Received my SSU two days ago and have put two moves (1 GPS 1 Non-GPS) on it so far. The GPS move was a 3 mile run and the tracking was on par with my Ambit3 Peak and Fenix 3 HR. The software on the watch definitely feels like a beta(ish) product but thankfully the watch is beautiful because software can be updated and hardware cannot.


----------



## NickYanakiev

You are hopefully finding it more similar to the A3 Peak than the F3HR that I used to own. Yes, it was quite terrible, I went through two of them. As reported, I am having a lot of problems to do with GPS accuracy. I am sending my watch back to Suunto in Finland for inspection. Somehow, I managed to get a very clean track in a spot quite difficult for most watches I have had: 
NYanakiev's 0:08 h Running Move

I have no clue how it sometimes works so well, while other times I get the following: (OK, this I have only experienced once)
NYanakiev's 0:05 h Running Move


----------



## alldayruckoff

NickYanakiev said:


> You are hopefully finding it more similar to the A3 Peak than the F3HR that I used to own. Yes, it was quite terrible, I went through two of them. As reported, I am having a lot of problems to do with GPS accuracy. I am sending my watch back to Suunto in Finland for inspection. Somehow, I managed to get a very clean track in a spot quite difficult for most watches I have had:
> 
> I have no clue how it sometimes works so well, while other times I get the following: (OK, this I have only experienced once)


I actually have had very good luck with my F3HR surprisingly. I've logged over 280 exercises on it and all have had acceptable GPS tracking. Granted they're not as perfect as the A3 Peak but they're definitely acceptable. I logged over 300 workouts on the A3 Peak and that was indeed had a nice GPS track.


----------



## Unperson

rdm01 said:


> Also happened to me. It's quite ironic the Suunto's bug report system is buggy itself XD


I've read messages from people who did manage to get a response from Suunto. How did you guys get into contact with them? Via the web form (if so, through which browser? I get errors both in Chrome and IE/EDGE) or have you found a direct email address?


----------



## IronP

Hello guys! Good news about the SSU and open water performance. Today I did a 1.5km swim in open water, together with a friend that was using his A3P.
Must say, the routing from the SSU was much smoother than the one from the A3P! Distance recorded virtually the same though!


----------



## arnea

Unperson said:


> I've read messages from people who did manage to get a response from Suunto. How did you guys get into contact with them? Via the web form (if so, through which browser? I get errors both in Chrome and IE/EDGE) or have you found a direct email address?


Hope this helps:

How to use contact form in MySuunto

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...hare_tid=1723698&share_fid=13788&share_type=t


----------



## johan6504

Unperson said:


> I've read messages from people who did manage to get a response from Suunto. How did you guys get into contact with them? Via the web form (if so, through which browser? I get errors both in Chrome and IE/EDGE) or have you found a direct email address?


The only way I have been able to get in contact with them is to call. None of my mails have been answered :-(


----------



## Unperson

arnea said:


> Hope this helps:
> 
> How to use contact form in MySuunto
> 
> https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Ewatchuseek%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D1723698&share_tid=1723698&share_fid=13788&share_type=t


Sadly that didn't help. I did use quotes in my messages but even after editing out the double quotes, single quotes and most of the other stranger characters I still get "An unknown error has occured. Check if all fields are correctly set. If so, please contact our support.". I guess I'll have to call them then.

At first I thought not being able to use those characters might be a security precaution against scripting or something, but I don't think that would be the case since they don't even use https for secure login on movescount so they don't seem to be too security aware in general .


----------



## NickYanakiev

I have no idea what's going on. After the horrible track I got the other day, NYanakiev's 0:05 h Running Move

All two walks I have done today have been great.

NYanakiev's 0:12 h Running Move
NYanakiev's 0:15 h Running Move! (apart from final bit)


----------



## petem99

Unperson said:


> At first I thought not being able to use those characters might be a security precaution against scripting or something, but I don't think that would be the case since they don't even use https for secure login on movescount so they don't seem to be too security aware in general .


It's simple and routine for a competent developer to remove or convert any characters that might cause a problem, either in scripting, in SQL database statements, or whatever they're using the text for, so there would be no excuse for it to just throw an error if it found characters it didn't like, it should deal with them. Besides, if it was rejecting the text because of something like that it should tell you what the problem is, not just give you a vague message about an "unknown error".

But you may be right that Suunto haven't spent a lot of time worrying about it - perhaps I expect too much, as Suunto aren't the only ones guilty of this sort of thing on their web site. I've hit problems like that on lots of sites, as if the developers don't care or can't be bothered to test anything.

Just as well Suunto don't also roll out _*watches*_ like that which aren't quite ready for use. Oh, hang on...
:think:


----------



## NickYanakiev

I have been getting quite good tracks lately while walking- GPS is known to do badly at slow speeds. 
Yet, this area is particularly difficult for any GPS watch: 
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move119902151


----------



## NickYanakiev

Big news: Suunto engineers looked at the movescount links I provided- there is currently a problem in how Movescount, Moveslink and the watch communicate. There is an SGEE module on the watch that currently updates incorrectly, which according to the engineering team, is causing the issues with GPS tracking that some of us have been experiencing.

There is a moveslink update scheduled for tomorrow morning.


----------



## ixman

I do hope they come up with a big firmware update because at the moment the watch is a bit of a joke especially if used for running.
Fingers crossed these issues are just software related.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NickYanakiev

I am pretty sure this is software related because only part of us current users are seeing GPS accuracy problems. I keep seeing Movescount activities, where tracking accuracy is comparable, or even better than an Ambit 3 Peak. Even more so because I have been getting very poor results on one hand, but also great results on the other.


----------



## NickYanakiev

NickYanakiev said:


> I am pretty sure this is software related because only part of us current users are seeing GPS accuracy problems. I keep seeing Movescount activities, where tracking accuracy is comparable, or even better than an Ambit 3 Peak. Even more so because I have been getting very poor results on one hand, but also great results on the other.


Update: the software release will be tomorrow or on Monday- the success ratio is only 60% at the moment with some devices still seeing issues.


----------



## WEM

NickYanakiev said:


> Update: the software release will be tomorrow or on Monday- the success ratio is only 60% at the moment with some devices still seeing issues.


Hey. Thx for sharing. Do they talk about a SuuntoLink (the comupter software) update or a firmware update for the watch?


----------



## WEM

For a few minutes I got an answer from Suunto confirming the issue with compass declination. They are talking about an issue in Movescout/SuuntoLink.

Issue with setting reference altitudes higher tan 400m was also confirmed for a few minutes... (what a surprise )


----------



## NickYanakiev

SuuntoLink- apparently the SGEE module on the watch can only be updated through a sync on a computer, rather than the mobile app.


----------



## bryanredneck27

The update is to fix the software or is the update to add alarm etc AND fix the software?


----------



## NickYanakiev

The update is to fix the GPS issues people have been experiencing. Suunto have very clearly communicated that the update in September will make major software additions.


----------



## Paulchen4711

NickYanakiev said:


> The update is to fix the GPS issues people have been experiencing. Suunto have very clearly communicated that the update in September will make major software additions.


Hi all,

the update of the SGEE-module does IMHO not help to improve the gps accuracy, does it? It helps finding satellites faster. Am I wrong?

BR Paulchen


----------



## petem99

There is information about the current release and what's going to be added soon, as well as info about some connectivity issues with Win8 and OS X here:
Spartan gets stronger

I don't think they're updating that page with things like the GPS fix so it won't tell you anything about that and any other urgent bug fixes they're doing, but it does give an idea what's coming soon in general (e.g. Android support and customisable sports modes), which are things that should be in place in September all being well.


----------



## WEM

Paulchen4711 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> the update of the SGEE-module does IMHO not help to improve the gps accuracy, does it? It helps finding satellites faster. Am I wrong?
> 
> BR Paulchen


I try to explain it roughly: a GPS receiver has a limited number of channels (normally 12). 
When searching a position, the receiver tries to get a signal in parallel in all 12 channels from different sattelites in orbit (>36).
When you work without a valid SGEE the receiver has to check every possible sattelite in orbit, with the risk of getting at first one that ist not so good for your current position (angle between sattelite and you matters). This leads also to inaccuracy.

The GPS receiver can derive the currently best sattelites from the SGEE to seach for. So it gets faster and also the better position.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Thanks for clarifying WEM, much appreciated!


----------



## NickYanakiev

A review of sorts, comparing SSU's GPS accuracy (a unit without the problem many of us have had to deal with) to a Garmin Fenix 3:
The forward momentum : Suunto Spartan Ultra GPS Precision


----------



## Paulchen4711

BTW: Does anybody know which Chipset is used in SSU?


----------



## johan6504

Paulchen4711 said:


> BTW: Does anybody know which Chipset is used in SSU?


SirfstarV


----------



## rumbletum

ixman said:


> I do hope they come up with a big firmware update because at the moment the watch is a bit of a joke especially if used for running.
> Fingers crossed these issues are just software related.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree totally, ok I've only done about 6 moves with it so far, but in my experience it has by far the worst GPS tracking I recall seeing, and I've gone through a few watches in my time. I've got better accuracy carrying my phone in my hand using an app than I get from this.

I really want to love this watch, but going to give some serious thought over the next day or two on whether to return it, or stick it out and hope it improves.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

On the BLE sensors connectivity front, has anyone paired the SU with an Adidas SPEED_CELL? Or with a cycling powermeter?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zvojan

Hello.

First compare: A3P vs SSU. SSU on right, A3P on left arm

1. The bad. I dont know exactly what happened, because 40% of track is missing from SSU. The move is marked like multisport, and the total distance is much longer then actual???!!! Something went wrong.

2. The good: The visible track from SSU is the most accurate track I have ever seen. More accurate than ambit 3. I just love the correct yellow circle on left side from SSU. So, Yelow line is SSU, Blue line is A3P. Like I said. 40% of yelow track is missing, but accuracy is just fantastic.

Sky visibility aprox. 10-15 % in forest (95 % of track). I was running very slow, meaning heavy situations for GPS watches. Ascent and descent 150 m. I will run more similar moves in near future with both watches.


----------



## johan6504

Looks great, I hope I will get the same track eventually...


----------



## tinu80

Couldn't do the trailrun in mountain forest area, but a walk with the stroller ist fun too 







Not really challenging terrain either for GPS, but at least some forest and its situated at the bottom of a quite narrow valley.


----------



## rdm01

LONG_HAUL said:


> On the BLE sensors connectivity front, has anyone paired the SU with an Adidas SPEED_CELL? Or with a cycling powermeter?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My SSU connected with Stages powemeter. Power data are OK but no cadence from powermeter as Ambit3 does. I reported to Suunto support the issue.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## LONG_HAUL

rdm01 said:


> My SSU connected with Stages powemeter. Power data are OK but no cadence from powermeter as Ambit3 does. I reported to Suunto support the issue.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Thanks! I connected it to a KICKR. I get power data and it looks great during the move and online. I can also pair the KICKR as a speed sensor as it broadcasts speed (commonly done with other cycling units/watches in years). However I get no distance/speed data. Reported to Suunto as well. Can you calibrate your powermeter? I cannot.


----------



## rdm01

LONG_HAUL said:


> Thanks! I connected it to a KICKR. I get power data and it looks great during the move and online. I can also pair the KICKR as a speed sensor as it broadcasts speed (commonly done with other cycling units/watches in years). However I get no distance/speed data. Reported to Suunto as well. Can you calibrate your powermeter? I cannot.


I can't calibrate. We'll see the next firmware...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## checker3

How about the vibration alert? Is it strong enough but not too noisy?


----------



## fotomas

checker3 said:


> How about the vibration alert? Is it strong enough but not too noisy?


I would like it to be pulsing in its vibration. Because the first vibration.rises my attention "was that an vibration?" a second and third pulse would confirm my suspicion of a vibration.

It could be a bit stronger, I don't think I will be able to feel it through clothes during winter running.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## alldayruckoff

Short run using the F3HR on my left and the SSU on my right. Match pretty well... ran along streets with no tree cover and clear sky. Basically ideal conditions.


----------



## rdm01

checker3 said:


> How about the vibration alert? Is it strong enough but not too noisy?


It's stronger than Vertical and Traverse. To me it's OK. I didn't miss any autolap yet but we're on summer so not tested wearing SSU over the jacket.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## LONG_HAUL

On the "pool swimming basic" sport mode, I consistently have to set the pool size to 25 yards (from 25 meter). Is that the way it is supposed to be? I'm set to imperial units everywhere I have seen the unit system setting option (watch/apps), and I don't see an option to set pool size anywhere else other than on the watch. 

On a separate note, it has not missed a single length in over three cumulative hours of pool swimming. That's pretty impressive. I don't think I ever had a watch behave this well with the possible exception of the 910XT. But I think the stroke data can look "spiky" for me at times. Anyone else experiencing that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bltupper

Took my SSU on the first run today to compare to F3HR and got this yellow circle on the outside. It never moved during my 5 mile run...was using the running basic mode on the SSU with no target set. Any clues?


----------



## bltupper

Here is part of the gpx files from the SSU and the F3HR...somewhat cloudy day, little tree cover on the dirt roads. It was interesting in that the F3HR was about .01mi behind the SSU for the first half of the run and then by the end the SSU recorded about .03mi less than the F3HR. Here are some screen shots of the gpx tracks:


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Today I used my spartan ultra watch to swim indoors for 850 yards. I set the pool size to 25 yards prior to starting the move.

I kept track of my laps and swam a total of 850 laps. During the swim the watch was reporting the data correctly in terms of what distance I had swam every time I stopped. When I ended the move the summary in the watch logbook showed I only swam 599 yards. However the autolap screen in the watch logbook shows the correct lap and interval lengths.

When I looked at movescount it also showed only 599 yards in the summary but the autolap data showed as high as 818 yards prior to the final lap where it reduced total distance to 599 yards.

Additionally the way movescount reports the lap information is a complete mess to look at.

This is the link to the move.

CarlosYuriar's 0:19 h Pool swimming Move

Also the touch screen was not useful during the swim. I would pause with the button on the side but if I touched the resume button it would not resume the move. Instead it would toggle the display from activity duration to time of day. The end move at the bottom did the same thing. To complete the move I had to use the side button.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

I got through filling out a service request/complaint on the suunto website but its not working at this time either. Oh you pinche suunto...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Phoenixatdawn said:


> I got through filling out a service request/complaint on the suunto website but its not working at this time either. Oh you pinche suunto...


I have seen similar issues. But I use two watches now. I make use of another watch for structured workouts so I don't have to write the workout down and bring notes to the pool. That is something the SU doesn't have and which is pretty nice. Problem is... that watch misses 15% of the lengths consistently. So I use the SU to show the total distance so I don't have to keep tabs on number of lengths and to avoid the second guessing. It has been precise every time for me. Swimming with two watches looks pretty dumb. Not an ideal setup but that's what I got going on right now...


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

LONG_HAUL said:


> I have seen similar issues. But I use two watches now. I make use of another watch for structured workouts so I don't have to write the workout down and bring notes to the pool. That is something the SU doesn't have and which is pretty nice. Problem is... that watch misses 15% of the lengths consistently. So I use the SU to show the total distance so I don't have to keep tabs on number of lengths and to avoid the second guessing. It has been precise every time for me. Swimming with two watches looks pretty dumb. Not an ideal setup but that's what I got going on right now...


Glad your watch is recording precisely. My Spartan ultra seems to be drunk.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Glad your watch is recording precisely. My Spartan ultra seems to be drunk.


Got it. Remember, if you have a chance to comment on the stroke rate data I would appreciate it. Mine is not looking fantastic with spikes at 300/500 rpm! I haven't sent a report yet because I'm not sure others are seeing that and because I think the Suunto Spartan team has bigger fish to fry right now. But I'm still curious whether it is just me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Looks like the stroke rate on mine is way off as well. I peaked at 625!

If if you're able to please log a service request about this to suunto. I'm going to keep trying as well.



LONG_HAUL said:


> Got it. Remember, if you have a chance to comment on the stroke rate data I would appreciate it. Mine is not looking fantastic with spikes at 300/500 rpm! I haven't sent a report yet because I'm not sure others are seeing that and because I think the Suunto Spartan team has bigger fish to fry right now. But I'm still curious whether it is just me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Looks like the stroke rate on mine is way off as well. I peaked at 625!
> 
> If if you're able to please log a service request about this to suunto. I'm going to keep trying as well.


Will do. That looks just like mine. Thank you for posting.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

So I noticed that on all my moves / activities the resume and end buttons on the screen do not resume or end the move. Touching those buttons just toggles the display between time and activity duration. Any one else experiencing this ?


----------



## bluelee333633

Phoenixatdawn said:


> So I noticed that on all my moves / activities the resume and end buttons on the screen do not resume or end the move. Touching those buttons just toggles the display between time and activity duration. Any one else experiencing this ?


maybe long push the button?

从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## rdm01

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Today I used my spartan ultra watch to swim indoors for 850 yards. I set the pool size to 25 yards prior to starting the move.
> 
> I kept track of my laps and swam a total of 850 laps. During the swim the watch was reporting the data correctly in terms of what distance I had swam every time I stopped. When I ended the move the summary in the watch logbook showed I only swam 599 yards. However the autolap screen in the watch logbook shows the correct lap and interval lengths.
> 
> When I looked at movescount it also showed only 599 yards in the summary but the autolap data showed as high as 818 yards prior to the final lap where it reduced total distance to 599 yards.
> 
> Additionally the way movescount reports the lap information is a complete mess to look at.
> 
> This is the link to the move.
> 
> CarlosYuriar's 0:19 h Pool swimming Move
> 
> Also the touch screen was not useful during the swim. I would pause with the button on the side but if I touched the resume button it would not resume the move. Instead it would toggle the display from activity duration to time of day. The end move at the bottom did the same thing. To complete the move I had to use the side button.
> 
> View attachment 9156426
> 
> View attachment 9156330


Definitely something wrong there.

BTW click on Activity Change button at movescount to disable these unwanted rows in the analysis grid.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## fotomas

bluelee333633 said:


> maybe long push the button?
> 
> 从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


In the DC Rainmaker preview he said that touch for start/paise/stop is disabled to avoid mistakes.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## NickYanakiev

Movescount is down at the moment- fingers crossed that the update that will alleviate GPS accuracy issues is now imminent!

EDIT:  Moveslink website down as well!
​


----------



## jeremy1271

It's back now. I've just noticed one change: Kilian Jornet added the SSU to his gear


----------



## IronP

NickYanakiev said:


> Movescount is down at the moment- fingers crossed that the update that will alleviate GPS accuracy issues is now imminent!
> 
> EDIT:  Moveslink website down as well!
> ​


Just did a successful sync with the app now and during the sync it came a GPS optimisation step, which took longer than normally does....crossing my fingers here!


----------



## Paulchen4711

IronP said:


> Just did a successful sync with the app now and during the sync it came a GPS optimisation step, which took longer than normally does....crossing my fingers here!


This is just the regular Satellite-Location-Update-Info. Don't expect too much.


----------



## bluelee333633

no firstbeat technology on SSU? running performance and quick recovery test or sleeping test as on ambit3? That's very disappointed


从我的 iPad 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## bluelee333633

when SSU supports the DIY suunto app. That's a long way to go with SSU


----------



## NickYanakiev

IronP said:


> Just did a successful sync with the app now and during the sync it came a GPS optimisation step, which took longer than normally does....crossing my fingers here!


The update we are waiting for is for moveslink ie not for the ios/android app but for the actual software that updates SGEE data. Thus, a change will take place only through syncing with a PC.


----------



## edit0r

LONG_HAUL said:


> On the "pool swimming basic" sport mode, I consistently have to set the pool size to 25 yards (from 25 meter). Is that the way it is supposed to be? I'm set to imperial units everywhere I have seen the unit system setting option (watch/apps), and I don't see an option to set pool size anywhere else other than on the watch.


I don't have this issue. I set it once to 25m and that was it. It's the closest value to my 24M pool that I swim in 



LONG_HAUL said:


> On a separate note, it has not missed a single length in over three cumulative hours of pool swimming. That's pretty impressive. I don't think I ever had a watch behave this well with the possible exception of the 910XT.


With my swimming style I did not had any problems missing laps with V800 or Fenix 3 HR or Spartan. All were spot on.
When the Spartan will recognise my swimming styles I will be happy again 
Till the september update I'll park the Spartan... no more swimming...


----------



## edit0r

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Also the touch screen was not useful during the swim. I would pause with the button on the side but if I touched the resume button it would not resume the move. Instead it would toggle the display from activity duration to time of day. The end move at the bottom did the same thing. To complete the move I had to use the side button.


Because of the capacitive touch screen technology limitation when it comes to water, the touch screen is disabled when you pick the swimming/pool swimming mode.
Also you will find out that when you run in the rain the touch screen is hard to use or simply impossible... the more water is on the touchscreen the more unresponsive it gets... In that case the buttons are the only choice.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Update from the head of customer service over at Suunto support: their engineers are still working on the Suuntolink update, I will get another call in one or two hours to confirm when the exact release date will be. May still be today but Monday is also possible.


----------



## rdm01

edit0r said:


> It's the closest value to my 24M pool that I swim in


24m!!! The pool builder must to have ninja level making such a not-usable-for-competition's swimming pool XD

deporteporvida.com


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## Riu

Hi there!

After my second swimming pool (pool of 50m), I can confirm that there is a bug in setting 50m pool length. It adds 100m for every 50m! I started a new exercise setting to 25m and it worked "fine", so every time displayed 50m. But, after 300m it substracted 25m, giving a total of 275m. I have sent this as a question to Suunto. Definitely, swimming needs an upgrate.
btw, the watch didn't sync one of the two exercise I did. How can I resync an exercise to movescount??


----------



## rdm01

Riu said:


> Hi there!
> 
> After my second swimming pool (pool of 50m), I can confirm that there is a bug in setting 50m pool length. It adds 100m for every 50m! I started a new exercise setting to 25m and it worked "fine", so every time displayed 50m. But, after 300m it substracted 25m, giving a total of 275m. I have sent this as a question to Suunto. Definitely, swimming needs an upgrate.
> btw, the watch didn't sync one of the two exercise I did. How can I resync an exercise to movescount??


Since the 50m swimming pool I used to go is closed until next weekend I didn't try yet. I'll share my experience there.

BTW are you using Strava too? Which distance shows there?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## edit0r

rdm01 said:


> 24m!!! The pool builder must to have ninja level making such a not-usable-for-competition's swimming pool XD


Yeah.... sad.... and it's just 1m.... one...

What I've done is stop the watch (end the session) and do a few more laps to match the watch screen swim length  ... don't want to cheat


----------



## Riu

rdm01 said:


> Since the 50m swimming pool I used to go is closed until next weekend I didn't try yet. I'll share my experience there.
> 
> BTW are you using Strava too? Which distance shows there?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Strava doesn't sync swimming pool exercise because there is no GPS. Unless I would set in to open water (I guess).


----------



## rdm01

Riu said:


> Strava doesn't sync swimming pool exercise because there is no GPS. Unless I would set in to open water (I guess).


Yes but I do it manually exporting from movescount and importing from Strava

deporteporvida.com


----------



## edit0r

Guys, for this watch a footpod is needed indoors for the treadmill? If so what model exactly, can you please link it?
Thank you!


----------



## rdm01

edit0r said:


> Guys, for this watch a footpod is needed indoors for the treadmill? If so what model exactly, can you please link it?
> Thank you!


I didn't run indoors but I was using an adidas ble one with my Ambits on road runs. Decided not use anymore since the GPS performance on Ambits were enough to me and because a bad experience during a road race. Food pood battery died and the distance were wrong for a while :-(

deporteporvida.com


----------



## NickYanakiev

edit0r said:


> Guys, for this watch a footpod is needed indoors for the treadmill? If so what model exactly, can you please link it?
> Thank you!


No footpod needed, the SSU supports cadence from your wrist and thus distance.


----------



## rdm01

NickYanakiev said:


> No footpod needed, the SSU supports cadence from your wrist and thus distance.


It is necessary one outdoor run at least to auto calibrate the wrist-pood. It's a silent process. At least you have to do that with the Ambits.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

IronP said:


> Just did a successful sync with the app now and during the sync it came a GPS optimisation step, which took longer than normally does....crossing my fingers here!


I don't think the gps optimization is new. That has always shown up during my sync process with the app on my phone.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

edit0r said:


> Guys, for this watch a footpod is needed indoors for the treadmill? If so what model exactly, can you please link it?
> Thank you!


You do not need a foot pod for the treadmill. The watch uses the accelerometer to estimate distance and cadence. Give it a try.


----------



## Riu

rdm01 said:


> Yes but I do it manually exporting from movescount and importing from Strava
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I'v tried to upload a swimming pool session to Strava. Only .fit and .xlsx are possible, again because there is no gps recorded. So you can't measure the length in Strava.


----------



## rdm01

Riu said:


> I'v tried to upload a swimming pool session to Strava. Only .fit and .xlsx are possible, again because there is no gps recorded. So you can't measure the length in Strava.


Take it harder, man!  I'm using this method for a long time and never got a problem. You can upload a .fit to Strava. I tried just now and old ambit3 swim and works.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## dogrunner

Phoenixatdawn said:


> You do not need a foot pod for the treadmill. The watch uses the accelerometer to estimate distance and cadence. Give it a try.


And it works well with my A1 and A2 as long as your arms are moving normally. Does not work on the stairmill when I use the handrails (obviously  )


----------



## NickYanakiev

No update today it seems. I understand that the engineers will be working through the weekend to get this one sorted for release on Monday.


----------



## tinu80

So this is the trail run/hike in more difficult gps conditions. Forest on a steep hill, hiking/running.







The roads in this map are surveyed. The track looks quite good! maximum deviation from the road (middle of pic) is around 20m.


----------



## Riu

rdm01 said:


> Take it harder, man!  I'm using this method for a long time and never got a problem. You can upload a .fit to Strava. I tried just now and old ambit3 swim and works.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Harder? Have you take a swim with the SSU? Because there is no gps track also in movescount ("swimming pool" basic mode)
This is the link of one of two swim today. The other is in my watch and I don't know how to transfer to movescount (it didn't automatically). I uploaded to Strava but it showed that I swam close near the Artic Ocean...

FaustRiu's 0:03 h Pool swimming Move


----------



## LONG_HAUL

edit0r said:


> I don't have this issue. I set it once to 25m and that was it. It's the closest value to my 24M pool that I swim in


In that situation I'd use 25 yd. That way I would look slower on data than I really am, and push harder during training.



edit0r said:


> With my swimming style I did not had any problems missing laps with V800 or Fenix 3 HR or Spartan. All were spot on.
> When the Spartan will recognise my swimming styles I will be happy again
> Till the september update I'll park the Spartan... no more swimming...


Swim stroke recognition is one of those like footpod auto-calibration, stairs climbed, or sleep tracking, by the time you feel like it is finally working for you, you suddenly realize you don't really use or need it.


----------



## rdm01

Riu said:


> Harder? Have you take a swim with the SSU? Because there is no gps track also in movescount ("swimming pool" basic mode)
> This is the link of one of two swim today. The other is in my watch and I don't know how to transfer to movescount (it didn't automatically). I uploaded to Strava but it showed that I swam close near the Artic Ocean...
> 
> FaustRiu's 0:03 h Pool swimming Move


I didn't go for a swim yet as the swimming pool I usually go is closed until next week. On my previous Ambits I had to click on Tools and the export as .fit Then in Strava click on + (upper right) and choose the exported file. The activity is uploaded and I could see every length and total distance. I don't know if now it works. Hope yes but not tested yet.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Riu

rdm01 said:


> I didn't go for a swim yet as the swimming pool I usually go is closed until next week. On my previous Ambits I had to click on Tools and the export as .fit Then in Strava click on + (upper right) and choose the exported file. The activity is uploaded and I could see every length and total distance. I don't know if now it works. Hope yes but not tested yet.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I did it exactly the same... Hope you won't be disappointed next week...


----------



## rdm01

Riu said:


> I did it exactly the same... Hope you won't be disappointed next week...


So a new bug to report to Suunto! :-(

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Riu

rdm01 said:


> So a new bug to report to Suunto! :-(
> 
> deporteporvida.com[/QUOTE
> 
> Maybe they will answer that this is the way it works. In the web, the difference between both swimming modes seems to be the GPS tracking:
> 
> *Openwater swimming:* Designed for openwater swimming with heart rate. Tracks speed and distance based on GPS and displays your course in the breadcrumb view.
> 
> *Pool swimming:* Designed for pool swimming. Track speed and distance according to pool length. Intervals are automatically identified during the swim and displayed in a lap table.


----------



## rdm01

Riu said:


> rdm01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So a new bug to report to Suunto! :-(
> 
> deporteporvida.com[/QUOTE
> 
> Maybe they will answer that this is the way it works. In the web, the difference between both swimming modes seems to be the GPS tracking:
> 
> *Openwater swimming:* Designed for openwater swimming with heart rate. Tracks speed and distance based on GPS and displays your course in the breadcrumb view.
> 
> *Pool swimming:* Designed for pool swimming. Track speed and distance according to pool length. Intervals are automatically identified during the swim and displayed in a lap table.
> 
> 
> 
> But in Ambit2/3 work well :-\
> 
> deporteporvida.com
Click to expand...


----------



## edit0r

Had a bike ride this evening and although 98% of the tracking was *great* for Fenix3HR and also for SSU I found some odd quirk that I wanted to share.

Setting :
Fenix 3 HR right hand, Glonass on, 1 second GPS sampling
SSU left hand, Best GPS sampling

Bike : classic mountain bike, nothing special, while raiding the watches were with their screens up all the time.
There were tall tress around but I wasn't under heavy foliage.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

rdm01 said:


> I didn't go for a swim yet as the swimming pool I usually go is closed until next week. On my previous Ambits I had to click on Tools and the export as .fit Then in Strava click on + (upper right) and choose the exported file. The activity is uploaded and I could see every length and total distance. I don't know if now it works. Hope yes but not tested yet.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


i didn't know you could do this. I'm going to go for another pool swim today and I'll give it a try. Thanks for the info.


----------



## zvojan

test no.2
Trail running 6,6 km (3,3 km and return to starting point). Yellow SSU, blue A3P. Sky visibility: 10-20 % (heavy foliage and trees). Ascent, descent 220m. Almost the same result. I trust SSU from today 

















Altitude SSU:








Altitude A3P








a3p and ssu







Tomorrow i will run street run. Sky visibility 100 %. ascent, descent 10 m.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Riu said:


> I'v tried to upload a swimming pool session to Strava. Only .fit and .xlsx are possible, again because there is no gps recorded. So you can't measure the length in Strava.


Maybe you could try again. It just worked for me. I followed rdm01's instructions and it worked. It uploaded to strava with no problem. However the data was completely wrong.

This was yesterdays pool swim. I'm going for another pool swim later today and will upload the results as well.

Actual length of swim 850 yards
Movescount showed 599 yards CarlosYuriar's 0:19 h Pool swimming Move
The log on the watch shows 599 but the autolaps actually shows the 850 yards.

And when sent to strava via FIT file it went from 850 yards to 
3416 yards at 43s/100yds....Damn I'm fast!


Here is the link to the strava file.https://www.strava.com/activities/690007244


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

rdm01 said:


> I didn't go for a swim yet as the swimming pool I usually go is closed until next week. On my previous Ambits I had to click on Tools and the export as .fit Then in Strava click on + (upper right) and choose the exported file. The activity is uploaded and I could see every length and total distance. I don't know if now it works. Hope yes but not tested yet.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I was able to upload the fit file to strava as you mentioned. Please take a look at the links I posted. Does it look the same way it did with the ambit 3's? I may put on my ambit 3peak today and swim with both watches so I can see the difference after uploading to strava.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Latest run! There's a couple of rough spots but the running environment was quite GPS unfriendly at times. Quite happy overall! 
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move120141818


----------



## Riu

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Maybe you could try again. It just worked for me. I followed rdm01's instructions and it worked. It uploaded to strava with no problem. However the data was completely wrong.
> 
> This was yesterdays pool swim. I'm going for another pool swim later today and will upload the results as well.
> 
> Actual length of swim 850 yards
> Movescount showed 599 yards CarlosYuriar's 0:19 h Pool swimming Move
> The log on the watch shows 599 but the autolaps actually shows the 850 yards.
> 
> And when sent to strava via FIT file it went from 850 yards to
> 3416 yards at 43s/100yds....Damn I'm fast!
> 
> 
> Here is the link to the strava file.https://www.strava.com/activities/690007244


I didn't say you can't upload the .fit file to strava. The fact is that you can only see the length and velocity, but not the GPS track of the swimming pool. As in your Strava account, the map is continously searching but nothing happens.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Riu said:


> I didn't say you can't upload the .fit file to strava. The fact is that you can only see the length and velocity, but not the GPS track of the swimming pool. As in your Strava account, the map is continously searching but nothing happens.


Oh I didn't realize that is what you meant. This might be a silly question but why would you want a gps map of the swimming pool?

When you say the map is continuously searching what map are you referring to?

By velocity do you mean speed ? Strava does show pace per 100 yards. Or are you referring to a different metric?

Does garmin offer this feature for indoor swimming? I have no experience with a garmin watch.


----------



## Riu

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Oh I didn't realize that is what you meant. This might be a silly question but why would you want a gps map of the swimming pool?
> 
> When you say the map is continuously searching what map are you referring to?
> 
> By velocity do you mean speed ? Strava does show pace per 100 yards. Or are you referring to a different metric?
> 
> Does garmin offer this feature for indoor swimming? I have no experience with a garmin watch.


I am referring to your Strava account. I can't see your map. Look at the picture


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Riu said:


> I am referring to your Strava account. I can't see your map. Look at the picture
> View attachment 9165346


You are correct there is no map there. But for me having a map would be of no value to me personally. Distance, duration, and speed is all I really look for during indoor swimming. And those metrics are all present in strava.

I have to run on the treadmill a lot because of my kids schedule and not having a map for my treadmill runs wouldn't provide any value either.


----------



## tinu80

Guys,
This contact form from suunto seemed to work, whereas the one in movescount showed the error some of us have been experiencing:

unfortunately I am not allowed to post links, but if you go to suunto.com/support then you can click on a button which takes you to a very similar contact form than the one from movescount. This one worked for me, at least i got their automatic mail reply.


----------



## iapyx

tinu80 said:


> So this is the trail run/hike in more difficult gps conditions. Forest on a steep hill, hiking/running.
> View attachment 9162210
> 
> The roads in this map are surveyed. The track looks quite good! maximum deviation from the road (middle of pic) is around 20m.


Tinu, this is Graubünden. Close to the Albula pass. Been there two years and seven years ago. On both occasions I went up the pass by bike. The first time on a rented bike the second time I brought my own bike. Both times using a Suunto: X6hrt and Ambit 2


----------



## LONG_HAUL

NickYanakiev said:


> Latest run! There's a couple of rough spots but the running environment was quite GPS unfriendly at times. Quite happy overall!
> http://www.movescount.com/moves/move120141818


Among the many accusations you made online against the Spartan Ultra, one was to say the GPS accuracy was poor due to the bezel antenna design. The bezel didn't change. The GPS firmware version didn't change (5.7.9). Were you totally wrong?


----------



## NickYanakiev

LONG_HAUL said:


> NickYanakiev said:
> 
> 
> 
> Latest run! There's a couple of rough spots but the running environment was quite GPS unfriendly at times. Quite happy overall!
> http://www.movescount.com/moves/move120141818
> 
> 
> 
> Among the many accusations you made online against the Spartan Ultra, one was to say the GPS accuracy was poor due to the bezel antenna design. The bezel didn't change. The GPS firmware version didn't change (5.7.9). Were you totally wrong?
Click to expand...

You must be thinking of somebody else mate. I have been reporting my results on here and in the Facebook group since getting the watch upon release. 
There is clearly a problem at the moment in certain conditions as I have been getting both good results and bad. Suunto is working on fixing this issue after many of us contacted them with evidence of the problem.

If you want to continue with your false accusations against someone who has been chasing Suunto about any existing issues from the very beginning- including submitting numerous runs to them- be my guest. 
Alternatively, you can spend your time in a more productive manner and help out make this watch what it should have been from the get-go.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

NickYanakiev said:


> You must be thinking of somebody else mate. I have been reporting my results on here and in the Facebook group since getting the watch upon release.
> There is clearly a problem at the moment in certain conditions as I have been getting both good results and bad. Suunto is working on fixing this issue after many of us contacted them with evidence of the problem.
> 
> If you want to continue with your false accusations against someone who has been chasing Suunto about any existing issues from the very beginning- including submitting numerous runs to them- be my guest.
> Alternatively, you can spend your time in a more productive manner and help out make this watch what it should have been from the get-go.


What part of this screenshot is false?


----------



## NickYanakiev

This was prior to me speaking to Suunto Support and their engineers in Romania. I believe you spoke of "the many accusations you made online"?
You need to get a life mate- you must surely have better things to do than track what I write and where. I believe this is none of your business anyway?

If you like spending £600 on a gadget that is released unfinished- please go ahead any buy another unit? I can still return it for a full refund but have hope that Suunto will fix the bad performance that I see from time to time, as per the below:

SSU: blue
Polar V800: orange


----------



## LONG_HAUL

NickYanakiev said:


> This was prior to me speaking to Suunto Support and their engineers in Romania.


So that was you! Your attitude went from totally bashing the watch just after you got it and had any time to study it, to now saying it works some times. Weird since nothing really was changed. Your anger and the time YOU have put into this thread stand out. Not me. Spartan Ultra GPS works 100% the time for me.


----------



## DocRunner

My experience with the GPS accuracy of the SSU is not so bad, without trees and free sight to the sky it´s on the same level than the accuracy of the Ambit3 Peak, in the forrest it´s a bit worse, but in the sum okay. I have almost the same distance on the Ambit3 and the SSU at the end of a run or a bike ride. The first picture shows the Ambit3 (yellow) vs the SSU (red) with free sight to the sky







The second picture shows the GPS accuracy in the woods (SSU red, Ambit 3 yellow)







I believe Suunto will do a good job in future to fix the problem. My Fenix3 ist much more worse than the SSU, I have tried it several times, only if I bike the GPS accuracy of the Fenix3 is correct.


----------



## tinu80

New day, new hike:







Maximum deviation between the outward and return track is again around 20 m. FYI, the black squares in the map equal 1km.
At the moment I'm quite happy with the GPS Performance. Lets see what the next weeks will bring...


----------



## NickYanakiev

Mods: please delete.


----------



## NickYanakiev

LONG_HAUL said:


> So that was you! Your attitude went from totally bashing the watch just after you got it and had any time to study it, to now saying it works some times. Weird since nothing really was changed. Your anger and the time YOU have put into this thread stand out. Not me. Spartan Ultra GPS works 100% the time for me.


You are now officially in my ignore list. Feel free to find someone else to argue with and something else to be bitter about. Not sure why you are taking this so seriously but anyway.


----------



## tinu80

iapyx said:


> Tinu, this is Graubünden. Close to the Albula pass. Been there two years and seven years ago. On both occasions I went up the pass by bike. The first time on a rented bike the second time I brought my own bike. Both times using a Suunto: X6hrt and Ambit 2


Yep, beautiful Graubünden  Its actually closer to the Flüela pass (Lavin), but youre right, albula pass goes into the same valley.
Greets, Tinu


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Another example of the indoor swim activity not tracking the distance correctly and or just reporting the distance incorrectly.

The swim was 875 yards and the watch was set to 25yds. I wore the spartan ultra and ambit 3 peak for the swim

Spartan Ultra move
CarlosYuriar's 0:20 h Pool swimming Move
Shows length as 651 yards 
auto lap screen on watch shows the 875 yards swam
lap information on movescount website shows max distance as 818 before the last lap where it says 651.

The stroke rate data was way off as well.

Here is the strava file for the spartan ultra move which shows the distance as 3201 yards. 
https://www.strava.com/activities/690978966

Ambit 3 peak 
CarlosYuriar's 0:20 h Pool swimming Move
The watch and the movescount website shows the distance swam as 875 yards.
The lap information on the movescount website matches the lengths that I actually swam.

The stroke rate data was very good.

Here is the strava file for the ambit 3 peak move which shows distance as 850 yards. 
https://www.strava.com/activities/690980070


----------



## Unperson

The girlfriend and me went out for a short hike today with the SSU. I have to say it was all a bit buggy and disappointing. I put a gpx track for the hike on the watch yesterday, we even looked at it on the watch. When we got to the train station the hike started out there were no routes on the watch, they had just disappeared (there were 3 on there). I used my phone to access movescount and there indeed the watch settings showed that there should be 3 routes on there. I tried resyncing via the app but there were still no routes listed on the watch. A lot of colourful language was mentioned but let's put it mildly and state I got somewhat angry . I don't know what bug this is but this is annoying as hell, routes disappearing from the watch overnight. 

Luckily we also had a print-out which allowed us to hike anyway and the watch did track that fine in a hiking activity, it's mostly a lack of zoom levels (it's just 100m and a total overview that it allows at the moment). I would post a picture but I can't get the damned thing to sync at all anymore so the move is not being synced to movescount.

I'll look at that other contact form one of you mentioned. Hiking and navigation is a bit of a mess at the moment.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

tinu80 said:


> Guys,
> This contact form from suunto seemed to work, whereas the one in movescount showed the error some of us have been experiencing:
> 
> unfortunately I am not allowed to post links, but if you go to suunto.com/support then you can click on a button which takes you to a very similar contact form than the one from movescount. This one worked for me, at least i got their automatic mail reply.


Thank you for the heads up. I just tried to report another issue from the suunto page as opposed to the movescount page and I still encountered an "unknown error"

Just for kicks I tried to report it on the movescount page as well and I had no luck.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Fun fact from DC Rainmaker:

Unscientific Observation from #UTMB village: Overwhelmingly the most common GPS seen on athletes is Suunto (Ambit mostly). Like easily 20:1


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Did a ride on the bike trainer today.

CarlosYuriar's 0:26 h Indoor cycling Move
https://www.strava.com/activities/691334977

The bike sensor and HRM synced quickly. The data seemed pretty accurate. The FIT file transferred over to strava and there were no major variances like I found with indoor swimming.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Did a ride on the bike trainer today.
> 
> CarlosYuriar's 0:26 h Indoor cycling Move
> https://www.strava.com/activities/691334977
> 
> The bike sensor and HRM synced quickly. The data seemed pretty accurate. The FIT file transferred over to strava and there were no major variances like I found with indoor swimming.


Do you see an icon for the bike sensor when you select the sport mode but has not started the move yet? I have only seen icons for the GPS and HRM, although I have other sensors connected (as evidenced by the data displayed/recorded).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

LONG_HAUL said:


> Do you see an icon for the bike sensor when you select the sport mode but has not started the move yet? I have only seen icons for the GPS and HRM, although I have other sensors connected (as evidenced by the data displayed/recorded).
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There was no icon for the speed cadence sensor on the watch display like I see for the gps arrow or heart icon.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

NickYanakiev said:


> Fun fact from DC Rainmaker:
> 
> Unscientific Observation from #UTMB village: Overwhelmingly the most common GPS seen on athletes is Suunto (Ambit mostly). Like easily 20:1


Did I ever share an image of the Suunto POS display (vs. the Garmin display, which has all but vanished) at the major mountain sports store in Vienna (Austria)? It makes things pretty clear... 
(Austria is a strange market, though... but with not so few mountain runners. Friend of mine in Sweden, otoh, says he hardly ever sees any Suunto, only Garmin, on the runners there.)

I thought about waiting until the September firmware release, but decided to go for an initial review showing what I've been seeing to date, already: Suunto Spartan Ultra - Initial Review

That navigation issue mentioned above: I saw the nav work well - but the sync (for routes, especially) is hit-and-miss. Probably part of the connectivity issues. Then again, I have been able to sync using Suuntolink on my old Vaio P (now running - well hobbling with - Windows 10). Which makes the geek in me very happy


----------



## rdm01

NickYanakiev said:


> Fun fact from DC Rainmaker:
> 
> Unscientific Observation from #UTMB village: Overwhelmingly the most common GPS seen on athletes is Suunto (Ambit mostly). Like easily 20:1


Also in Spain is the same (at least in the trail running races I use to go there).

deporteporvida.com


----------



## zvojan

Another compare. SSU vs A3P. Trail running. 10 km ( 5 km outward and 5 cm track back) 350 ascent/descent. Sky visibility 15-25 %. Guess which is which.


----------



## no4

R Ambit, Y Spartan ?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Phoenixatdawn said:


> There was no icon for the speed cadence sensor on the watch display like I see for the gps arrow or heart icon.


Thanks! It is good to know it is not just my watch doing that. Also, the status in the list of paired sensors is always "not connected", no matter what I do, for everything but the MobileApp, which shows "connected". It was really confusing for me at the begging, until I realized that the sensors were indeed connected and data was being recorded. But in case of sensors like footpod, which provide data that can com from several sources, it is still a question mark. I wonder if anyone here is using an ANT+/BLE bridge and what the results are.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Today's run- not bad! 
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move120353492


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I thought about waiting until the September firmware release, but decided to go for an initial review showing what I've been seeing to date, already


Nice writing! Thanks for posting. It is great to learn from a long term user, who can put things into a context, harder than simply itemizing findings. The online discussions did make me think the Spartan Ultra was way worse than it actually is. Good to see others have a similar impression.


----------



## Jaka83

Yeah, the data gathering is there, it just needs some clever programming and display options for it to be more useful. Eagerly waiting for the next FW update ... Suunto, my money is ready, please deliver.


----------



## Riu

I know the precision of the barometer, but how can I change the altitude if SSU shows -57m?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Riu

I think I got it. Need to calibrate compass


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rdm01

Riu said:


> I know the precision of the barometer, but how can I change the altitude if SSU shows -57m?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Settings - outdoor - reference altitude

After set the right altitude it takes 2 seconds to update the reference

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Riu

rdm01 said:


> Settings - outdoor - reference altitude
> 
> After set the right altitude it takes 2 seconds to update the reference
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Thanks rdm1 but this gave me same result (-57). Solution was calibrate compass


----------



## rdm01

Riu said:


> Thanks rdm1 but this gave me same result (-57). Solution was calibrate compass


I takes some seconds after you set the reference. It works with mine without compass calibration.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## WEM

Hey,

I have to report one (for me) real serious issue of the watch.


Was mountaineering yesterday: starting point about 1900m above sea level.
As we know, setting reference altitude does only work under 400m.
Unfortunately also fuesed alti didn't work out (V-valley with bad GPS reception, high rock walls).


So I had complete wrong altitude readings the complete day....


So please Suunto: work on the bug now and add a posibility to set refernce altitude while training - like all Ambits have. This lack in function is a no-go for mountaineering for me.
A fairly correct altitude and a compass (on SSU not accessible while training yet!!!) ist a must-have for moutaineering - especially in emergency situations


----------



## Riu

WEM said:


> Hey,
> 
> I have to report one (for me) real serious issue of the watch.
> 
> Was mountaineering yesterday: starting point about 1900m above sea level.
> As we know, setting reference altitude does only work under 400m.
> Unfortunately also fuesed alti didn't work out (V-valley with bad GPS reception, high rock walls).
> 
> So I had complete wrong altitude readings the complete day....
> 
> So please Suunto: work on the bug now and add a posibility to set refernce altitude while training - like all Ambits have. This lack in function is a no-go for mountaineering for me.
> A fairly correct altitude and a compass (not accessible while training) ist a must-have for moutaineering - especially in emergency situations


Completely agree!


----------



## zvojan

no4 said:


> R Ambit, Y Spartan ?


Yes, Unfortunately....


----------



## tinu80

Riu said:


> Completely agree!


Absolutely!
I even would like to have the option of setting the altitude entirely "by hand" and not letting it change through FusedAlti, as this is the way I am used to work with altimeters. Is / was this possible with the Ambit series?


----------



## WEM

tinu80 said:


> Absolutely!
> I even would like to have the option of setting the altitude entirely "by hand" and not letting it change through FusedAlti, as this is the way I am used to work with altimeters. Is / was this possible with the Ambit series?


Yes.


----------



## anto1980

Today Trail Running session with SSU:
http://www.movescount.com/it/moves/move120417795


----------



## sloon

*Gerald Zhang-Schmidt*
your watch firmware 1.1.28? (my 1.1.24)


----------



## tinu80

Heres my trail run from today:








There's one spot where the track wasn't great (lateral deviation from trail max 29 m). Apart from that the track is (to me) good.
But I had some issues with the hr belt. When running down the hr monitoring suddenly stopped working showing "--" on the watch. Tried repositioning the belt several times to no avail.







Any ideas what could be the cause?
Other strange thing when I did a hike this morning with my family: The map in trailrun mode didn't show a track (despite recording correctly) but was constantly switching zoom levels from 100 m to 25'000 km(!) without showing any track.
What's strange too: you can set a route in the options menu from trailrun mode but somehow cannot unset it. If you chose a route once its somehow there forever (?)


----------



## rdm01

tinu80 said:


> Heres my trail run from today:
> View attachment 9182714
> 
> 
> There's one spot where the track wasn't great (lateral deviation from trail max 29 m). Apart from that the track is (to me) good.
> But I had some issues with the hr belt. When running down the hr monitoring suddenly stopped working showing "--" on the watch. Tried repositioning the belt several times to no avail.
> View attachment 9182786
> 
> Any ideas what could be the cause?
> Other strange thing when I did a hike this morning with my family: The map in trailrun mode didn't show a track (despite recording correctly) but was constantly switching zoom levels from 100 m to 25'000 km(!) without showing any track.
> What's strange too: you can set a route in the options menu from trailrun mode but somehow cannot unset it. If you chose a route once its somehow there forever (?)


About the route bug: In my experience it happens when you open a route from navigation menu. Looks like it keeps locked. If you go to options before pressing start you'll see the route keeps market. Go into the route menu in the activity options and set again the same route to unset it. Then start your move and everything will be OK.

If it happens during the move, long press the middle button and repeat the written above.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## tinu80

Thanks mate! that worked for me!


----------



## LONG_HAUL

tinu80 said:


> But I had some issues with the hr belt. When running down the hr monitoring suddenly stopped working showing "--" on the watch. Tried repositioning the belt several times to no avail.
> View attachment 9182786
> 
> Any ideas what could be the cause?


Tinu, I saw the exact same triangular shaped HR data in one of my first pool swims. I assumed something had gone wrong with data transmission after I was out of the water and never went back to it. Now you saw it on a run too. That's strange. I got my movesense HR as a bundle (Spartan Ultra Titanium HR). Did you get a bundle too?


----------



## Ingo

Phoenixatdawn said:


> You do not need a foot pod for the treadmill. The watch uses the accelerometer to estimate distance and cadence. Give it a try.


Is that any accurate? My Garmin 620 works in the same way and is always off ~1k for every 10k on the treadmill - and I do use the watch a couple of times a week outside so it should have enough opportunities to calibrate.


----------



## OliverM

I too had an issue with my HR running last week. (Spartan Ultra Titanium HR bundle). HR reading dropped out on the watch, tried adjusting the belt a few times, and gave up, thinking it was just a glitch due to me being soaked from rain for the duration of the run. 
Obviously now that a few of us have seen this, there must be a problem? Personally I'm not too fussed yet, I'm sure Suunto will sort it out eventually.
Next time I will try unclip/reclip the base HR unit, in the hope that resets the HR (I don't know if this will work). And last resort will stop/save the move and start a new one.


----------



## tinu80

LONG_HAUL said:


> Tinu, I saw the exact same triangular shaped HR data in one of my first pool swims. I assumed something had gone wrong with data transmission after I was out of the water and never went back to it. Now you saw it on a run too. That's strange. I got my movesense HR as a bundle (Spartan Ultra Titanium HR). Did you get a bundle too?


Got a bundle too, Spartan Ultra Black HR.


----------



## anto1980

Off trail. I run with only SSU so I can not compared with my A3. Probably was the same...probably.
No problems on HR chart.


----------



## runnerholic

Hi, how long is it supposed to take to update the watch from 1.0.18 - 1.1.24? It's been standing blinking on the last "dot" for like 40 minutes now..


----------



## anto1980

Mine updated in a few minutes.


runnerholic said:


> Hi, how long is it supposed to take to update the watch from 1.0.18 - 1.1.24? It's been standing blinking on the last "dot" for like 40 minutes now..


----------



## LONG_HAUL

tinu80 said:


> Got a bundle too, Spartan Ultra Black HR.


Ugh! And it looks like OliverM also saw the issue on an HR bundle. No reports from users that didn't get an HR bundle so far. So it could be the batch of movesense sensors we got. Can the movesense HR sensors themselves get software updates? It looks like the HR value is just being incremented by 1 until it hits an internal maximum (255?), and then it overflows to zero again. And it looks like the HR values go from 0 to 255 about 14 times per hour. The number of seconds in an hour 60*60 divided by 256 is just over 14. So it looks like that would be compatible with a 1-second data recording.


----------



## rdm01

runnerholic said:


> Hi, how long is it supposed to take to update the watch from 1.0.18 - 1.1.24? It's been standing blinking on the last "dot" for like 40 minutes now..


If it keeps there after 15 minutes, unplug and try again

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Unperson

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Thank you for the heads up. I just tried to report another issue from the suunto page as opposed to the movescount page and I still encountered an "unknown error"
> 
> Just for kicks I tried to report it on the movescount page as well and I had no luck.


I still get this as well, I've not been able to get any contact form in. I've now tried on several computers and with Chrome, Firefox, IE and Edge. How anyone else is able to use that contact form is a mystery to me.

I'm waiting for the september update and if that doesn't fix things I'll try calling and ask for a mail address of someone at Suunto. That form is clearly broken for some users but no-one knows why or how.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

rdm01 said:


> If it keeps there after 15 minutes, unplug and try again


Is that the consensus here for what to do in that case? Is it always the case that the update does not go through in such situations? I think that happened to me once but I just left it plugged and went on with my day. When I came back the watch software had not been updated and I still had to do the update. So I think that update is actually not even getting really started when that happens. I just hate to unplug watches while such problems are happening. I had a bad experience once with an expensive watch that was out of guarantee and I bricked it....


----------



## Hecke

got mine today, firmware update went fine (although the MAc version of SuuntoLink did not do the trick, I had to switch to windows...) and the first move also looks flawless. Some tree cover, definitely very cloudy and some rain. I'm happy!







SSU on left arm, Ambit2S on right arm. SSU is sometimes a few meters off track, but for my purpose this is fine.


----------



## NickYanakiev

Suuntolink update just went live. Got a call from Suunto's customer service head. Let's see if GPS issues are finally fixed!


----------



## rdm01

LONG_HAUL said:


> Is that the consensus here for what to do in that case? Is it always the case that the update does not go through in such situations? I think that happened to me once but I just left it plugged and went on with my day. When I came back the watch software had not been updated and I still had to do the update. So I think that update is actually not even getting really started when that happens. I just hate to unplug watches while such problems are happening. I had a bad experience once with an expensive watch that was out of guarantee and I bricked it....


Some users reported they did it and working at the second time. But you are free to do what you want!

deporteporvida.com


----------



## IronP

LONG_HAUL said:


> Is that the consensus here for what to do in that case? Is it always the case that the update does not go through in such situations? I think that happened to me once but I just left it plugged and went on with my day. When I came back the watch software had not been updated and I still had to do the update. So I think that update is actually not even getting really started when that happens. I just hate to unplug watches while such problems are happening. I had a bad experience once with an expensive watch that was out of guarantee and I bricked it....


At suunto website you will find:
Suuntolink Release Notes*Version 2.1.31* 
25.08.2016
With the help of feedback from our customers, we have addressed the following findings:


Added support for 32 bit Windows systems.
Spartan device recognition improved: USB device name handling fixed.
Fixed error cases caused by language specific (non-UTF8) characters in Windows user names.
We're still working on some known issues:

Firmware update process freezes occasionally. After 15 minutes the device should be unplugged, Suuntolink restarted and process retried.
Errors caused by having hashtag (#) in Windows user name.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Nice! Thanks. I'm impressed they mention known issues, how to workaround them, and acknowledge customers' contributions. Very nice.


----------



## Hecke

Thanks IronP.
'With the help of feedback from our customers', they begin to acknowledge, we all are beta-testers ;-)

And: Who the hell has a # in the user name?


----------



## alldayruckoff

Lost my first move yesterday  Ran a 1 mile route then did 1 mile of intervals and the Suunto was in a "Saving" loop for about 18 hours before I ended up forcing a firmware update to restart it. Thankfully I had the workout recorded on my F3HR but I was bummed.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

alldayruckoff said:


> Lost my first move yesterday  Ran a 1 mile route then did 1 mile of intervals and the Suunto was in a "Saving" loop for about 18 hours before I ended up forcing a firmware update to restart it. Thankfully I had the workout recorded on my F3HR but I was bummed.


I just learned from customer support that we can force a restart by pressing and holding the upper button for 12 seconds. I lost part a pool swim on the SSUTiHR when I pressed the lap button and it rebooted. To be fair, I use the lap button excessively, and reboot/data loss have happened on other watches to me many, many times before in similar conditions. So it didn't surprise me. Also, that particular swim had a ton of lap button presses because I was doing a long sequence of single-length intervals. No harm done, still did everything I was supposed to do in the workout


----------



## edit0r

Hecke said:


> Thanks IronP.
> 'With the help of feedback from our customers', they begin to acknowledge, we all are beta-testers ;-)


Thank you @Hecke for reminding the buyers that they are beta testers...

When I said it a long time ago it did not agree with many readers... hope they can see it now!


----------



## watchvids

LONG_HAUL said:


> I just learned from customer support that we can force a restart by pressing and holding the upper button for 12 seconds.


Wish I had known this yesterday... The watch decided to get stuck on exercise start. Nothing happened and when I started keeping different buttons pressed for 5-10 seconds, I finally got the watch into the firmware update (downwards arrow on screen). Though it did not help me very much and only when I connected it to Suuntolink at home, it claimed that something was wrong with the watch and that all data needs to be erased . After that it has been OK again.. Though the 12 second reboot would have probably helped me at that situation. I wish they'd add that to the manual...


----------



## WEM

Tried out the new SuuntoLink Version:

* Route synch issue (only syncing when also a move is synced) seems to be fixed. I can only synch newly created routes - old routes does'n work.
* compass declination issue (that was also indicated as movescount/SuuntoLink issue ) is not fixed

regards
Werner


----------



## watchvids

My feelings from the last 1,5 weeks with Spartan Ultra is that cycling accuracy seems to be very good, and sufficient for me. Maybe a tiny bit worse than Ambit 3 Sport.

BUT I use the watch also in karting and there seems to be a big difference; it seems that the update interval in SSU is too short for high speeds (60-100km/h):








Has anybody else noticed this? I've tried reporting this to Suunto, but the feedback form just fails every time (I've tried 10 times already!). I guess I need to call them o|.

Other findings:


Not possible to enable auto-pause. I've used this alot when cycling and need to stop for traffic lights etc. 
When timer is running, you cannot return back to watch view. This is kind of annoying. I want to start a timer and use the watch normally, instead of being locked into the timer view 
Step counter seems a "little" too aggressive for me. E.g. at one point I had 2500 steps on Spartan and ~1000 steps on Google fit (Android phone, Moto X), I'm wondering if it had counted "steps" during my cycling?
Daily step counts are not logged into movescount nor the watch. If you didn't check it before midnight, well, boo-hoo, you can't see them anymore. Would be nice to see the trends. Though the step counting algorithm needs improvements before this adds real value. 
There is no way to force lock touchscreen. This was kind of annoying when wearing the watch in shower just after you had checked the details of a workout -> screen was lit up whole time while in shower. 
The screen detailing the length of exercise seems to be buggy, seems that the icons don't always match the activity. See the image below. I doubt I've used the cross-trainer for 17.92 kilometers during the few minutes I was using it . 









Other than that, the HW seems superb; the strap is so snuggly fit on the watch case that one would think the case and strap are one construction! Charging cable is excellent.

Touchscreen works very well as long as you swipe "properly" from outside the screen with long movement and not with a quick swipe in middle of the screen. I think it is good that the touchscreen is not overly sensitive. Though I use buttons all the time when possible as using touch makes the screen greasy . Maybe when there are notifications from phone, I'll use the touchscreen more.

So all in all, a bit mixed feelings and high hopes...


----------



## edit0r

watchvids said:


> My feelings from the last 1,5 weeks with Spartan Ultra is that cycling accuracy seems to be very good, and sufficient for me.


It was very good for me too... On some days the GPS had some inexplicable small quirks and on some days it was 100% fine... all this using the same path each time...



watchvids said:


> I've tried reporting this to Suunto, but the feedback form just fails every time (I've tried 10 times already!). I guess I need to call them o|.


For some tickets I had to try for 2 full days to get accepted (processed).... so you really need to have patience...



watchvids said:


> I'm wondering if it had counted "steps" during my cycling?


Yes it does count steps while cycling IF the watch is idle showing the watch face.... 
It's not the watch fault... I tested once and the Polar V800 behaved the same as Spartan. If the road is not perfect (smooth)... all the vibrations are translated into steps.

If you have activated a cycling move the watch will stop counting steps and monitor the cycling.


----------



## zvojan

Another compare SSU vs A3P. 2,5 km outward and 2,5 cm track back. 200 ascent and descent. Heavy foliage and trees.

red on the left hand









yellow on the right hand


----------



## NickYanakiev

WEM said:


> Tried out the new SuuntoLink Version:
> 
> * Route synch issue (only syncing when also a move is synced) seems to be fixed. I can only synch newly created routes - old routes does'n work.
> * compass declination issue (that was also indicated as movescount/SuuntoLink issue ) is not fixed
> 
> regards
> Werner


Hi Werner,

Do you feel there is a difference in the quality of tracks recorded? It is my understanding that the point of this update was to fix the way the watch reads SGEE data -that directly relates to GPS quality, among with some other bugs.
I am just about to go out for a quick test run to check it out myself.

Cheers,
Nick


----------



## petem99

LONG_HAUL said:


> No reports from users that didn't get an HR bundle so far. So it could be the batch of movesense sensors we got.


I've done three mountain bike rides so far with the SSU, but I didn't go for the HR bundle as I've seen a lot of complaints about Suunto HR monitors in the past and the old Ant+ ones let me down more than once with my Ambit so I lost faith in them. I'm using a Tickr X, and so far the heart rate tracking looks flawless (till I'm sure the SSU is reliable I'm also wearing a separate Garmin HRM with the Fenix 3 and that agrees with the SSU). I do use conductive gel on the electrodes as I found that helps for me.

When I was using a Suunto HR belt, some people recommended replacing the strap with (IIRC) a Polar one which would fit the Suunto unit, as the strap was part of the problem with them not being reliable. I did try that and it was better, but that was a couple of years ago with an Ant+ sensor so it's probably not the same strap you get with the SSU HRM (at least I'd hope not - it should have been improved by now!).

BTW, the GPS tracks from the SSU also look fine, but that's probably not surprising as they seem to be ok for most people when cycling and my SSU is mounted face-up on the handlebar which is probably best for reception, though to be fair some parts of the rides where I had to force my way through dense vegetation are probably at no more than walking speed and without a clear view of the sky as there's vegetation overhead too for much of it, and the track has still been good so far. If I remember, next time I'm walking somewhere I'll start an activity and see how well it tracks then.


----------



## Unperson

edit0r said:


> For some tickets I had to try for 2 full days to get accepted (processed).... so you really need to have patience...


I think what was meant is that the page with the form is bugged, and that it keeps giving error messages. Not that it takes Suunto long to respond.

If you are able to use that form, can you tell us what web browser on what operating system you are using? Then maybe we will know how to get that contact form to work


----------



## Jaka83

Finally gave in and got mine today right after work - Got the Titanium all black HR version with a discount.
Haven't tested any sport activities yet but got it updated paired and setup the way I want it - not that there's much to setup with this early FW.

I'm amazed at how well the display works in bright sunlight ... it looks like the brighter it is, the easier it is to read it. The watch is super sexy too! 

I'll try to get moving tomorrow (road cycling uphill) and compare it to the Ambit1 if the rain dies down.

Does anybody know if there is a way to force sync the settings from the Suunto Link software without disconnecting and reconnecting the watch, like you can with the Moveslink software (right click on the tray icon -> Sync settings)? I can't find a way to do this on the Suunto Link software.


----------



## petem99

NickYanakiev said:


> Suuntolink update just went live. Got a call from Suunto's customer service head. Let's see if GPS issues are finally fixed!


Assuming that's 2.1.31, which is what the release notes are that you get from the "Download watch sync software" page on the Suunto site, where did you get the actual software from? My Suuntolink wasn't saying there was a new version available (like Moveslink does) even after stopping/starting it, plugging/unplugging the watch, and in the end rebooting the machine, then I went to the Suunto site and downloaded Suuntolink (again) from that same page which has a link to the 2.1.31 release notes, uninstalled the old Suuntolink, rebooted, installed the one I just downloaded and it's STILL 2.1.27 just like it was before I started!

I'm beginning to wonder whether Mac users are the poor relations and only the Windows version of 2.1.31 has been released so far. If the Mac version *has* been released, does anyone know how I can get it?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

petem99 said:


> I've done three mountain bike rides so far with the SSU, but I didn't go for the HR bundle as I've seen a lot of complaints about Suunto HR monitors in the past and the old Ant+ ones let me down more than once with my Ambit so I lost faith in them. I'm using a Tickr X, and so far the heart rate tracking looks flawless (till I'm sure the SSU is reliable I'm also wearing a separate Garmin HRM with the Fenix 3 and that agrees with the SSU).


That's interesting. Thanks. Do you have any experience with ANT+/BLE bridges?(from products like viiiiva) I'm considering getting one but I personally don't know anyone who has it. On the movesense HR sensor behavior, it is really hard for me to troubleshoot when I have no insight on the internals. On one hand, from the 1-second recording rate set on the watch, and the graph indicating HR increases by one every second, anyone could say it might be the watch. But it happened to me during a swim so that data was probably already stored on the sensor that way and presumably transferred already looking like that. But I have no idea. It could even be a weird interaction between the watch and the sensor. It took a really long time for it to happen to one user, so it could be a weird interaction/coincidence that needs to take place I guess. All we know is, once it goes bad, it stays that way for the remainder of the move. And we don't know how to get it out of that behavior while still recording the move.


----------



## petem99

Unperson said:


> If you are able to use that form, can you tell us what web browser on what operating system you are using? Then maybe we will know how to get that contact form to work


Apparently you need to be running DR-DOS with a specially built version of the Arachne browser. And the wind needs to be from the right direction, at between 8.5 and 8.7 knots. And it only works on Thursdays, for half an hour just after tea time, the only access being on a machine which is in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard".

But don't let any of that put you off.


----------



## petem99

Jaka83 said:


> I'm amazed at how well the display works in bright sunlight ... it looks like the brighter it is, the easier it is to read it.
> 
> Does anybody know if there is a way to force sync the settings from the Suunto Link software without disconnecting and reconnecting the watch, like you can with the Moveslink software (right click on the tray icon -> Sync settings)? I can't find a way to do this on the Suunto Link software.


I think this came up somewhere in the previous 139 pages (!) and IIRC the answer was that there isn't any other way at the moment so it is a disconnect/reconnect. Hopefully that will change, but I think they're quite busy trying to finish off the missing features and solve various bugs, so I wouldn't hold your breath!

Yes, the only time I find a problem with the display is when the ambient light is dim (not completely dark but a dimly lit room), then I do sometimes need to use the backlight. In bright sunlight it does seem to do very well.


----------



## Jaka83

petem99 said:


> I think this came up somewhere in the previous 139 pages (!) and IIRC the answer was that there isn't any other way at the moment so it is a disconnect/reconnect. Hopefully that will change, but I think they're quite busy trying to finish off the missing features and solve various bugs, so I wouldn't hold your breath!
> 
> Yes, the only time I find a problem with the display is when the ambient light is dim (not completely dark but a dimly lit room), then I do sometimes need to use the backlight. In bright sunlight it does seem to do very well.


PHEW, gasp, pant, whoo ... was starting to turn blue here for holding my breath for so long ... 

I'll wait, there are more important things for the programmers to do than this.

Yes, same here for the backlight. It's in the middle of the night here and my ambient desk lamp barely makes the screen readable. But I like it this way, it's similar to the Ambit "negative - white on black" display.


----------



## petem99

LONG_HAUL said:


> Do you have any experience with ANT+/BLE bridges?(from products like viiiiva)


Sorry, no I've never used one. Hopefully somebody on here will be able to help.

Let's hope Suunto can sort out the problem with heart rate logging on the SSU HR, whether it's in the HRM or in the watch firmware - I remember how annoying it was if I didn't notice that the old Ant+ HRM had lost the plot (or I just couldn't get it working again) so I was missing a chunk of heart rate data at the end of the ride.


----------



## Ingo

petem99 said:


> Sorry, no I've never used one. Hopefully somebody on here will be able to help.
> 
> Let's hope Suunto can sort out the problem with heart rate logging on the SSU HR, whether it's in the HRM or in the watch firmware - I remember how annoying it was if I didn't notice that the old Ant+ HRM had lost the plot (or I just couldn't get it working again) so I was missing a chunk of heart rate data at the end of the ride.


_
_Not sure it's an ANT+/BLE bridge but I have used a Scosche Rhythm+ (optical HR monitor) in combination with an A2 and it worked pretty well:_
_http://www.movescount.com/moves/move85510444


----------



## BystrousT

Hi Guys, 
I am new here, but I use Suunto watches since Ambit models came out (Salomon-Suunto ambassador in CZE). Now I have SSU for one week, and I am little bit unpleasantly surprised with battery life of my SSU black. Today´s morning i disconect the charger (all night charging) and in one hour I take SSU for 50min of running in Basic sport mode. Before run display shows 99% and after run I had 96%. Now, after four hours from charger disconect I have only 90% of battery level. Backlight is set on toggle mode, notifications on, and the latest version of firmware.
Does anyone had the same experience? 
I unbox SSU last wednesday (charge it) and after one week with aproximately 6 hours of activity was battery dead yesterday evening. This is weak battery life in comparison with my A3P..
I think that there is something wrong with my piece of SSU. 







Thanks.


----------



## WEM

Hi,

my current state about battery consumption is following:

GPS best mode: stated 18h => 5.6% per hour, reproducable 6-7% per hour => 14.2 - 16.67h of real battery life --- not so far away from stated performance ---


GPS good mode: stated 26h => 3.85% per hour, reproducable 6-7% per hour => 14.2 - 16.67h of real battery life ---- issue ----


GPS ok mode: stated 65h => 1.54% per hour, reproducable about 2% per hour => 50h of real battery life --- only one test, maybe an issue ---

With your 3% in 50min you are below avarage. So everthing ok.
I also noted an high battery consumption when watch is only laying asleep on desk. IMHO a bug with sleep mode.

6% in normal usage is more than I ever noted - did you play around a lot in this time?


----------



## rdm01

BystrousT said:


> Hi Guys,
> I am new here, but I use Suunto watches since Ambit models came out (Salomon-Suunto ambassador in CZE). Now I have SSU for one week, and I am little bit unpleasantly surprised with battery life of my SSU black. Today´s morning i disconect the charger (all night charging) and in one hour I take SSU for 50min of running in Basic sport mode. Before run display shows 99% and after run I had 96%. Now, after four hours from charger disconect I have only 90% of battery level. Backlight is set on toggle mode, notifications on, and the latest version of firmware.
> Does anyone had the same experience?
> I unbox SSU last wednesday (charge it) and after one week with aproximately 6 hours of activity was battery dead yesterday evening. This is weak battery life in comparison with my A3P..
> I think that there is something wrong with my piece of SSU.
> View attachment 9199434
> 
> Thanks.


I think your problem is backlight as toggle mode. It also happened to me. The backlight keeps switched on and you don't see that when you're outside. Try to set to automatic and re-test again...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Hecke

Some issues (Suunto, are you listening?)
the Mac version of Suuntolink still shows that the synchronization is in progress after 15 minutes. The move is already there in movescount.
Cadence from the wrist seems quite different between SSU (top) and Ambit 2S (bottom)














Any ideas, where this comes from?
Below the two GPS tracks, red SSU, yellow Ambit2S, overall the Ambit is a tad better, I'd say, but both are off the sattelite image by a similar distance.


----------



## BystrousT

WEM said:


> Hi,
> 
> my current state about battery consumption is following:
> 
> GPS best mode: stated 18h => 5.6% per hour, reproducable 6-7% per hour => 14.2 - 16.67h of real battery life --- not so far away from stated performance ---
> 
> GPS good mode: stated 26h => 3.85% per hour, reproducable 6-7% per hour => 14.2 - 16.67h of real battery life ---- issue ----
> 
> GPS ok mode: stated 65h => 1.54% per hour, reproducable about 2% per hour => 50h of real battery life --- only one test, maybe an issue ---
> 
> With your 3% in 50min you are below avarage. So everthing ok.
> I also noted an high battery consumption when watch is only laying asleep on desk. IMHO a bug with sleep mode.
> 
> 6% in normal usage is more than I ever noted - did you play around a lot in this time?


Thaks, I did not play with them a lot. Only normal wearing in work and recieving notifications, no settings changes etc.. Now I have 89% of battery, So I think this is wery high consuption in fact that I use SSU 6 hours from fully charged. I dont think there is a problem with backlight, but I try to set it on automatic mode.


----------



## martowl

WEM said:


> Hi,
> 
> my current state about battery consumption is following:
> 
> GPS best mode: stated 18h => 5.6% per hour, reproducable 6-7% per hour => 14.2 - 16.67h of real battery life --- not so far away from stated performance ---
> 
> GPS good mode: stated 26h => 3.85% per hour, reproducable 6-7% per hour => 14.2 - 16.67h of real battery life ---- issue ----
> 
> GPS ok mode: stated 65h => 1.54% per hour, reproducable about 2% per hour => 50h of real battery life --- only one test, maybe an issue ---
> 
> With your 3% in 50min you are below avarage. So everthing ok.
> I also noted an high battery consumption when watch is only laying asleep on desk. IMHO a bug with sleep mode.
> 
> 6% in normal usage is more than I ever noted - did you play around a lot in this time?


This is one of the two main reasons I cancelled my pre-order. I am worried about "real" battery life. I would use the 26h mode extensively and need this to last more than 20h. Thanks for all of the info on the SSU, it helps us with those that are still using Ambits


----------



## Unperson

petem99 said:


> Apparently you need to be running DR-DOS with a specially built version of the Arachne browser. And the wind needs to be from the right direction, at between 8.5 and 8.7 knots. And it only works on Thursdays, for half an hour just after tea time, the only access being on a machine which is in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard".
> 
> But don't let any of that put you off.


Ah, Belgium, man, Belgium!

It was indeed on a Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays.

Anyhow, let's hope the September firmware aids things.


----------



## WEM

martowl said:


> This is one of the two main reasons I cancelled my pre-order. I am worried about "real" battery life. I would use the 26h mode extensively and need this to last more than 20h. Thanks for all of the info on the SSU, it helps us with those that are still using Ambits


Hi,

I have also a problem for my 2-3 day trips in mountains, where I need about ~24h (3x 8h of estimated excercice) of livetime.
At the moment this is only posiible with the GPS Ok mode.

My overall impression is, that the SSU reaches nearly stated battery lifetime in GPS best mode: in some conditions users has reported up to 16.7h in real life in comparison to 18h in an "all best" scenario.
For the GPS good mode - that is stated as 26h - I simply think the SSU has a bug at the moment. I discovered some things that confirm that. But more maybe later...

regards
Werner


----------



## LONG_HAUL

WEM said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have also a problem for my 2-3 day trips in mountains, where I need about ~24h (3x 8h of estimated excercice) of livetime.
> At the moment this is only posiible with the GPS Ok mode.
> 
> My overall impression is, that the SSU reaches nearly stated battery lifetime in GPS best mode: in some conditions users has reported up to 16.7h in real life in comparison to 18h in an "all best" scenario.
> For the GPS good mode - that is stated as 26h - I simply think the SSU has a bug at the moment. I discovered some things that confirm that. But more maybe later...
> 
> regards
> Werner


Just a note, it sounds like some of you are assuming that battery percentage is a linear function of time. But the "battery percentage" does not take the same amount of time to go from 30% to 20% as it takes to go from 90% to 80%. In both cases it is 10% "battery percentage", but the times required for discharge are different because the total battery charges remaining in the battery are different.


----------



## WEM

LONG_HAUL said:


> Just a note, it sounds like some of you are assuming that battery percentage is a linear function of time. But the "battery percentage" does not take the same amount of time to go from 30% to 20% as it takes to go from 90% to 80%. In both cases it is 10% "battery percentage", but the times required for discharge are different because the total battery charges remaining in the battery are different.


Absolutely right. But for this first rough estimation I found the linear assumption ok.

Mainly I would like to say: GPS best - seams to be right direction, GPS good - bug


----------



## petem99

Unperson said:


> Ah, Belgium, man, Belgium!
> 
> It was indeed on a Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays.


Clearly you're a hoopy frood who really knows where his towel is.
:-!

Let's hope that's also true of Suunto's developers...


----------



## petem99

WEM said:


> GPS best mode: stated 18h => 5.6% per hour, reproducable 6-7% per hour => 14.2 - 16.67h of real battery life --- not so far away from stated performance ---
> GPS good mode: stated 26h => 3.85% per hour, reproducable 6-7% per hour => 14.2 - 16.67h of real battery life ---- issue ----


As far as I can recall some people have seen differences in battery life between Best and Good. Given that you got exactly the same results with both modes, did you check that it was actually in Good mode on the second one and not in Best again? I know someone posted on this thread that under some circumstances, like if you're navigating as part of the activity, it automatically switches to Best mode no matter what you set for the default mode on the activity (apparently it can't navigate reliably in the power-saving modes). Come to think of it, I don't know whether it actually shows that it's going to be in Best mode when you select a route, so it might not be easy to tell.

In terms of the battery life being a bit less than expected even for Best mode, do you have anything else connected to the watch, like the iPhone app, and what is your backlight setting? I'd guess Suunto evaluated the battery life with everything else using as little power as possible, so it might be hard to get the same results if you need to have other things using more than the minimum power.


----------



## WEM

petem99 said:


> As far as I can recall some people have seen differences in battery life between Best and Good. Given that you got exactly the same results with both modes, did you check that it was actually in Good mode on the second one and not in Best again? I know someone posted on this thread that under some circumstances, like if you're navigating as part of the activity, it automatically switches to Best mode no matter what you set for the default mode on the activity (apparently it can't navigate reliably in the power-saving modes). Come to think of it, I don't know whether it actually shows that it's going to be in Best mode when you select a route, so it might not be easy to tell.
> 
> In terms of the battery life being a bit less than expected even for Best mode, do you have anything else connected to the watch, like the iPhone app, and what is your backlight setting? I'd guess Suunto evaluated the battery life with everything else using as little power as possible, so it might be hard to get the same results if you need to have other things using more than the minimum power.


Hi,

I've done a couple of tests incl. double check of gps mode in the last two weeks. I get nearly same battery consumption independently whether navigation is on or off.

What crosses my mind now is, that I done all my tests in mountaineering/trekking mode. Maybe there is some dependency with the mode and not with the GPS accuracy. But this would be a bug anyway.


----------



## PTBC

petem99 said:


> Apparently you need to be running DR-DOS with a specially built version of the Arachne browser. And the wind needs to be from the right direction, at between 8.5 and 8.7 knots. And it only works on Thursdays, for half an hour just after tea time, the only access being on a machine which is in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard".
> 
> But don't let any of that put you off.


Well there you go I'm using OS/2 warp, all my fault.

My Spartan finally turns up today after some issues with Suunto not being able to sell you a watch if you order while traveling. Apparently order IP location and delivery address being different countries triggered their internal fraud warning security and their requirements to clear the security check were to send documents (e.g. copy of passport) using insecure communication methods. Apparently the irony that I couldn't comply with their security procedure because it was insecure was lost on the call centre staff, I did cancel my order, but my wife re-ordered it for my birthday.


----------



## edit0r

I have experienced a pretty big battery drain.

I don't use the watch so it was sitting on a stand on my desk... love the watch design 

Yesterday the battery went down to zero and the big battery icon showed up so I decided it's time to charge it... took it off the charger at 100% and put it back on the stand on my desk... now 19 hours later the battery is at 90%... and I did not touch the watch... 

So 10% in 19 hours while the watch was idleing with the screen off the whole time I think is a bit much... 

Anyone experienced this?

I'll try to open a ticked maybe Suunto can get to the bottom of this...


----------



## edit0r

rdm01 said:


> I think your problem is backlight as toggle mode. It also happened to me. The backlight keeps switched on and you don't see that when you're outside. Try to set to automatic and re-test again...
> 
> deporteporvida.com


That's why I opened a ticket and kindly ask Suunto to add an off timer (5s, 10s,15s,30s,1m....) when the backlight is set on toggle.
They ignored my request... Maybe you should also push the idea maybe it will catch up.


----------



## WEM

edit0r said:


> I have experienced a pretty big battery drain.
> 
> I don't use the watch so it was sitting on a stand on my desk... love the watch design
> 
> Yesterday the battery went down to zero and the big battery icon showed up so I decided it's time to charge it... took it off the charger at 100% and put it back on the stand on my desk... now 19 hours later the battery is at 90%... and I did not touch the watch...
> 
> So 10% in 19 hours while the watch was idleing with the screen off the whole time I think is a bit much...
> 
> Anyone experienced this?
> 
> I'll try to open a ticked maybe Suunto can get to the bottom of this...


I noted a few percents overnight also


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Yesterday I was doing things around the house and didn't put the watch on my wrist until about 1pm. It had been sitting on the counter all day untouched. When I put it on and scrolled down to see the steps/calories the watch said I had 6593 steps so far. Something might be a tad off.


----------



## WEM

edit0r said:


> That's why I opened a ticket and kindly ask Suunto to add an off timer (5s, 10s,15s,30s,1m....) when the backlight is set on toggle.
> They ignored my request... Maybe you should also push the idea maybe it will catch up.


Good idea! I reqested an icon that indicates light on.
btw: i would like too have back gps and hr icon and not forget battery state in sport mode...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Yesterday I was doing things around the house and didn't put the watch on my wrist until about 1pm.... When I put it on and scrolled down to see the steps/calories the watch said I had 6593 steps...


Did the "things" you were doing around the house involve operating a bulldozer?


----------



## 604

First post here. Hi all!

Jumping on the battery topic. In Settings / Connectivity there's a 'Discovery' toggle. I don't know if that has any effect on battery life, but after a having paired it to the app, I turned it off a couple days later. The A3P has an option manually start the 'Pair with the app' mode. I guess that only makes the device 'discoverable' when you trigger it. Not sure why they decided to add a toggle on the SSU and keep it on by default.

On a different note, I wanted to share a few runs I've done both with my SSU on the left arm and the A3P on the right. My biggest worry was GPS accuracy now that the Ambit bump is gone and some of the people in prev pages posted some crazy tracks, which made me almost decide to pass and stick to my ambit. I ended up deciding to place the order and send it back if not happy. I think a lot of current Ambit folks are in this same situation, so here's the links in case they can help anyone: bit.ly/2bOAFo1 - bit.ly/2bMXBWk - bit.ly/2coOs9q

Overall, I'd say the tracks are quite close to the Ambit. In some spots the SSU does even better, in others the track of the A3P is definitely more accurate and the SSU wanders around a bit. Still nothing alarming or out of the boundaries of what you can expect from consumer GPS accuracy IMO. Seeing how 'beta' the software is currently, I think the hardware looks solid and it will get on par with software updates, but launching a watch that is missing so many features for about twice the price is taking a quite BIG leap of faith.

I gave it a shot because I've been very happy with an Ambit 3 Sport and later an Ambit 3 Peak. Even appreciated Suunto more after a terrible month with a Fenix 3, which was giving me terrible GPS data and was sent back. Still, launching a flagship with this price tag without workouts, running index, personalization of sport modes, alarm (!!), bluetooth pairing issues... I just don't get it. Whoever made the shots, bad call. This is not a kickstarter. I think the SSU might end up being a great watch, but it is not as of today.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Maybe I got lucky but I was just able to get some support issues logged with suunto.

This is the link I used.

Suunto Contact Form


----------



## Anthony5280

I had decided to pass on the SSU. But I have received one as a gift. Is anyone else dissatisfied with the display? 
I find that even when it is set at 90 or 100 and in normal daylight conditions it is difficult to make out.
Depending on angle of view it can be even worse. I find the colours very muted and the display not very responsive to swipes. 
I don't have a screen saver on it yet. I know a lot of the software is still being developed but this feels like a 
hardware issue. I contacted Suunto support but they didn't have any solutions to offer. Perhaps this is the normal/permanent 
condition for this watch. I'm surprised that for this price premium they don't have a better screen/interface. 

Before I have her send it back I really wanted to get a feel for what others think in this regard.


----------



## Unperson

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Maybe I got lucky but I was just able to get some support issues logged with suunto.
> 
> This is the link I used.
> 
> Suunto Contact Form


Thanks man, that one worked! I even got an email from them! Wow, things are really looking up now ;-)


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Anthony5280 said:


> I really wanted to get a feel for what others think in this regard.


Sounds like you got some homework to do. You could start by checking this out: https://www.watchuseek.com/f513/amo...isplay-2493042.html#/topics/2493042?_k=1x0h7s

Or just google "transflective lcd display".


----------



## BystrousT

edit0r said:


> I have experienced a pretty big battery drain.
> 
> I don't use the watch so it was sitting on a stand on my desk... love the watch design
> 
> Yesterday the battery went down to zero and the big battery icon showed up so I decided it's time to charge it... took it off the charger at 100% and put it back on the stand on my desk... now 19 hours later the battery is at 90%... and I did not touch the watch...
> 
> So 10% in 19 hours while the watch was idleing with the screen off the whole time I think is a bit much...
> 
> Anyone experienced this?
> 
> I'll try to open a ticked maybe Suunto can get to the bottom of this...


Hi, I have the same experience. Now, after 14 hours from fully charged SSU I have 81% of battery level with one 50min excercise and commonly all day wearing. This is so sad. Did anyone discus this problem with suunto? Or anyone has similar problems?


----------



## tinu80

I just keep posting some runs, if you start to get annoyed just tell me.
Overview:







Upper part of the run. The bigger deviations from the trail were actual shortcuts taken, and in some places I didn't take the same path up and down.







Overall i'm perfectly happy with the GPS as long as i'm over the treeline. With trees the performance is not perfect -my old forerunner 210 was doing at least as good, if not a little bit better- but ok for me. No really big errors so far in the tracks i've recorded.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Tinu, what do you use to overlay your tracks on those custom maps? It looks awesome. Are the projections on your maps always compatible with the track log coordinate system? (WGS84).


----------



## IronP

Hi folks, here an open water swim session that I did this weekend...6.2km and must say...not bad for the SSU! Struglying at the turns but pretty good when straight!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cyberbob13

I must say I have never owned a GPS device with such a poor GPS tracking performance than the Suunto Spartan Ultra (and I had around at least 20 different units the last 15 years, covering Garmin, Suunto and Polar ranges). My tracks are clearly off very often and MUCH, MUCH, MUCH poorer than the tracks created by my V800 I will use from now on again.

For example, on a mountain run the SSU recorded 12K when according to the electronic map the distance was more than 15 K (all switchback distances were calculated as a straight line). Today, the SSU cut more than 1K out of a 17K run in the woods I have completed many times with different devices, showing places I was not even near at.

To be honest, I do not believe that a firmware change will be able to resolve these issues and I am seriously thinking to send the watch back. Very disappointed. It seems that GPS watches are getting more and more shiny these days but are lacking their core capabilities.

[GPS was set to "BEST", Compass Declination was adjusted, latest FW version used, newest GPS orbit data loaded just before the run, 5 min. "soak" before starting the workout]


----------



## PTBC

Wondering how can you check the battery status on the watch itself?


----------



## zvojan

PTBC said:


> Wondering how can you check the battery status on the watch itself?


Go to exercise and you will see it at the bottom....


----------



## rdm01

Cyberbob13 said:


> I must say I have never owned a GPS device with such a poor GPS tracking performance than the Suunto Spartan Ultra (and I had around at least 20 different units the last 15 years, covering Garmin, Suunto and Polar ranges). My tracks are clearly off very often and MUCH, MUCH, MUCH poorer than the tracks created by my V800 I will use from now on again.
> 
> For example, on a mountain run the SSU recorded 12K when according to the electronic map the distance was more than 15 K (all switchback distances were calculated as a straight line). Today, the SSU cut more than 1K out of a 17K run in the woods I have completed many times with different devices, showing places I was not even near at.
> 
> To be honest, I do not believe that a firmware change will be able to resolve these issues and I am seriously thinking to send the watch back. Very disappointed. It seems that GPS watches are getting more and more shiny these days but are lacking their core capabilities.
> 
> [GPS was set to "BEST", Compass Declination was adjusted, latest FW version used, newest GPS orbit data loaded just before the run, 5 min. "soak" before starting the workout]


Since some users are reporting good GPS tracking maybe you got a faulty unit. Did you try a replacement due your poor GPS issue?

I'm also have owned a lot of GPS watches in the last years and my SSU is doing pretty well (actually almost as good as my A3 Peak, A3 Sport, A2 and V800 use to do). Distance is virtually the same but tracks are a better in the models I wrote.

A3 Vertical, Traverse, Fenix 3, Fenix 2, FR920XT, FR620, FR610, FR910XT, FR405 did all of them worse than my SSU in the same 10K challenge route.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Ingo

I know this is not going to help anybody here but in the course of 144 pages I went from:

1. I must have that watch right now
2. I will soon buy it
3. I will buy it later for sure
4. I may wait a little longer before getting it
5. I may not buy it at all
6. I know I won't buy one
7. I don't even ever want one
8. I must never own that watch
9. How stupid I ever considered owning one in the first place...

Hey Garmin, if you’re still working on an F4, I think an antenna bump is a brilliant idea ;-)


----------



## edit0r

BystrousT said:


> Hi, I have the same experience. Now, after 14 hours from fully charged SSU I have 81% of battery level with one 50min excercise and commonly all day wearing. This is so sad. Did anyone discus this problem with suunto? Or anyone has similar problems?


I opened up a ticket and gave all the details needed... hope they have the time to investigate...


----------



## edit0r

Anthony5280 said:


> I had decided to pass on the SSU. But I have received one as a gift. Is anyone else dissatisfied with the display?
> I find that even when it is set at 90 or 100 and in normal daylight conditions it is difficult to make out.
> Depending on angle of view it can be even worse. I find the colours very muted and the display not very responsive to swipes.
> I don't have a screen saver on it yet. I know a lot of the software is still being developed but this feels like a
> hardware issue. I contacted Suunto support but they didn't have any solutions to offer. Perhaps this is the normal/permanent
> condition for this watch. I'm surprised that for this price premium they don't have a better screen/interface.
> 
> Before I have her send it back I really wanted to get a feel for what others think in this regard.


These are the limitations of the display (and technology) there nothing you can do about it.
Many friends who have seen my watch complained that the display is not so vivid like in the commercials, or web shots... and indeed the web pictures and renderings are misleading. When you look at the pictures on the web you are under the impression that the display is an amoled type but it's not... an amoled display would have looked great but it would have drained a lot of battery and visibility outside would have been very poor.
Given the fact that no other sport watch has a better transreflective color screen my guess is the tech is not very advanced in this field... or it's way too expensive to put in a 800$ sport watch...


----------



## edit0r

Ingo said:


> I know this is not going to help anybody here but in the course of 144 pages I went from:
> 
> 1. I must have that watch right now
> 2. I will soon buy it
> 3. I will buy it later for sure
> 4. I may wait a little longer before getting it
> 5. I may not buy it at all
> 6. I know I won't buy one
> 7. I don't even ever want one
> 8. I must never own that watch
> 9. How stupid I ever considered owning one in the first place...
> 
> Hey Garmin, if you're still working on an F4, I think an antenna bump is a brilliant idea ;-)


Haha great post!

Given the last 7 watches that Garmin made I could say that the GPS antenna bump will never come back.
On the other hand the Spartan GPS antenna is clearly way better then what my Fenix 3 HR has... Spartan in beta mode... Fenix 3 HR had lots of firmware updates and is as good it can ever get. Spartan is good.... Fenix is... decent.
From what I have seen so far Suunto managed to implement a good antenna the problem is it's inconsistency but for that I blame the buggy firmware.
If you have patience, looots of patience, I am quite sure that they will polish the Spartan GPS to look very good!


----------



## edit0r

Cyberbob13 said:


> I must say I have never owned a GPS device with such a poor GPS tracking performance than the Suunto Spartan Ultra (and I had around at least 20 different units the last 15 years, covering Garmin, Suunto and Polar ranges). My tracks are clearly off very often and MUCH, MUCH, MUCH poorer than the tracks created by my V800 I will use from now on again.
> 
> For example, on a mountain run the SSU recorded 12K when according to the electronic map the distance was more than 15 K (all switchback distances were calculated as a straight line). Today, the SSU cut more than 1K out of a 17K run in the woods I have completed many times with different devices, showing places I was not even near at.
> 
> To be honest, I do not believe that a firmware change will be able to resolve these issues and I am seriously thinking to send the watch back. Very disappointed. It seems that GPS watches are getting more and more shiny these days but are lacking their core capabilities.
> 
> [GPS was set to "BEST", Compass Declination was adjusted, latest FW version used, newest GPS orbit data loaded just before the run, 5 min. "soak" before starting the workout]


Don't try to compare the Spartan with V800... V800 has an mature and stable firmware that took Polar close to 2 years to build and polish and the Spartan just came out with an basic, buggy, unpolished firmware. You really need to give Suunto some time... at least 6 months.

I tested my Suunto with my V800 and my Fenix 3 and I have to say that I haven't experienced such big errors like you have. For instance on a 30km bike ride the difference between Spartan and V800 was around 400m ... perfectly fine with me.
Yes Spartan has it's GPS quirks now and then but I am ok with them given the state of the firmware at launch... I am sure that they will iron out the GPS issues, quirks and inconsistencies.

No offence but I think It's a good idea to return the watch.
1. wait for the firmware to mature
2. monitor the forum and user feedback in the meantime
3. your current watch might be defective
4. if you find after 3-6 months that people are starting to feel happy about the firmware buy it again
5. with the new watch you might discover that indeed the first watch had a GPS hardware problem

OR

before returning you could swap the watch with another one.... test the second watch... compare the moves with your first watch and decide if indeed the first one was defective or both behave the same...


----------



## ixman

Another activity, another disappointment 
Just look at those two strait lines. WTF??!? I really want to believe is a software issue but at the moment this watch reminds me of a very expensive Fenix 3.


----------



## edit0r

ixman said:


> Another activity, another disappointment
> Just look at those two strait lines. WTF??!? I really want to believe is a software issue but at the moment this watch reminds me of a very expensive Fenix 3.


The tracking is quite good in my opinion, beside the GPS bugs/problems that generated those straight lines... it looks like the watch lost the GPS signal for a few minutes.
You experienced the same GPS bugs that I've experienced and showed here : Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 132

I understand that you are upset and probably like me you expected a flawless experience but do you remember how bad was the Fenix 3 GPS at launch? Compared to that the Spartan is actually very good.

Please open a ticket to Suunto like I did and I am sure they will fix the bug... the more data we feed them... the better the firmware gets... I took the beta testing role pretty serious


----------



## BystrousT

edit0r said:


> I opened up a ticket and gave all the details needed... hope they have the time to investigate...


Hi, I wrote to them throught this link so, I will see if I get any answer. Now after another 50min of running I have 71% of battery level. Watches were on the table all night and in the morning stepsmeter count 196 steps from mignight - with no move. I think that consumption during excercise is in "normal values" about 6-7 % per hour, but during normal wearing or simply clock mode and in stable position they take a lot of battery capacity.


----------



## edit0r

BystrousT said:


> Hi, I wrote to them throught this link so, I will see if I get any answer. Now after another 50min of running I have 71% of battery level. Watches were on the table all night and in the morning stepsmeter count 196 steps from mignight - with no move. I think that consumption during excercise is in "normal values" about 6-7 % per hour, but during normal wearing or simply clock mode and in stable position they take a lot of battery capacity.


The official answer regarding the battery issues :

"We are sorry to hear about the issue you are experiencing with your Suunto Spartan Ultra's battery. If such a high battery consumption is encountered while the watch is not being used for training, we recommend you to send it to a service center and have it examined by a technician, as there may be an issue with the battery compartment.

Once the unit is received, our engineers will inspect it and will send you a cost estimation via e-mail, which you will have the option to either accept or reject. The turnaround time for the whole repair process is 7 to 10 business days."

Seriously Suunto? Cost estimation on a brand new Spartan that is under warranty?

Do they have humans that actually write these? or is an automated robot pushing automated answers?

I would love to help Suunto as long as they are actually listen and act accordingly...

I'll let this one slide... again... but it's the last time...


----------



## petem99

edit0r said:


> Seriously Suunto? Cost estimation on a brand new Spartan that is under warranty?


I can only hope that you're right and this was an automated response, but it doesn't sound like it as I wouldn't have thought that would include a specific mention of an issue with the battery compartment. Then again, maybe they're using AS (Artificial Stupidity) to answer queries and that's what it came up with in reply to a query related to the battery - if it is that might imply that they're aware of a problem in the battery compartment that can cause battery wastage (partial short circuit?).

Whatever, as you rightly said if there is a problem with the battery compartment on a brand new expensive watch which is still under warranty I'd expect the cost estimation to be zero! Unless they're suggesting it's your fault for actually using the watch. I would hope for better than this from Suunto, but maybe I'm going to be disappointed.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

IronP said:


> Hi folks, here an open water swim session that I did this weekend...6.2km!


That must have taken you some two hours! Did you swim that non stop? Or did you stop to look at distance? How did it look? How did the watch strap hold up? I always have the strap going through the two little loops when I start, but sometimes the strap is not on the second loop when I'm done (still perfectly secure on just one loop, like most watches are anyway). Did the comfort level in general during the time period change or it just felt the same? Do you make it tighter than usual for swims? Do you recall battery consumption for that session? Did you have backlight on? Did the touchscreen behave properly throughout? Did you add manual laps or did it lap automatically? Thanks.


----------



## Hecke

The cost estimation message is the default you always get when contacting Suunto for help or warranty. They will not declare something under warranty without having a look at the watch. Maybe this is some legal issue in Finland. Despite the harsh initial message, they are usually pretty fair, once they got the unit. So yes, it was a robot sending you a 'yes we received your complaint and are willing to look into it. But if you are not sure this is a warranty issue, be prepared to be charged, but not without notice.'


----------



## WEM

edit0r said:


> The official answer regarding the battery issues :
> 
> "We are sorry to hear about the issue you are experiencing with your Suunto Spartan Ultra's battery. If such a high battery consumption is encountered while the watch is not being used for training, we recommend you to send it to a service center and have it examined by a technician, as there may be an issue with the battery compartment.
> 
> Once the unit is received, our engineers will inspect it and will send you a cost estimation via e-mail, which you will have the option to either accept or reject. The turnaround time for the whole repair process is 7 to 10 business days."
> 
> Seriously Suunto? Cost estimation on a brand new Spartan that is under warranty?
> 
> Do they have humans that actually write these? or is an automated robot pushing automated answers?
> 
> I would love to help Suunto as long as they are actually listen and act accordingly...
> 
> I'll let this one slide... again... but it's the last time...


That's a joke now, it is? No seriously: i did get also some strange answers from Suunto Support. Do the answering people have any technical knowledge or do they have problems with the language?

I was thinking: good answer, but it doesn't match my question...


----------



## IronP

LONG_HAUL said:


> That must have taken you some two hours! Did you swim that non stop? Or did you stop to look at distance? How did it look? How did the watch strap hold up? I always have the strap going through the two little loops when I start, but sometimes the strap is not on the second loop when I'm done (still perfectly secure on just one loop, like most watches are anyway). Did the comfort level in general during the time period change or it just felt the same? Do you make it tighter than usual for swims? Do you recall battery consumption for that session? Did you have backlight on? Did the touchscreen behave properly throughout? Did you add manual laps or did it lap automatically? Thanks.


Hi! Here my feedback:
Yes...it was a non-stop training session and it took 2h26m, but I glanced the watch every 10min when the auto-lap was vibrating (really good and noticeable)! But I also noticed that, the auto-lap screen does not goes away automatically after some seconds, as in the other training modes (bike/run). So I had to press the middle button to get it away....!
Since it was sunny, the display was really good to read without backlight!
Regarding the strap...I used it as usual, it is tight but not much and no problems during swim (bike and run as well), the watch stays at the same position. Its really confortable even by long distances and no changes in the feeling (the ca.20gr less in comparison to the A3P plays a role as well). My feeling is that the SSU is much confortable to wear than any other sport watch that I had.
The small issue with the small 2nd loop happened as you described, but putting it more in the middle, does the job (its what I did during the swim).
Battery consumption was exactly as for bike or run....no surprises and it is like the other users are reporting, ca.6%/h.
I did not tried the touchscreen because I believe it is disable during swim mode, if I recall correctly..!
And just for the record, before I started, I made sure to have a good sattelite fix by enabling the swim mode and waiting to start for ca. 4min.
Cheers...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tinu80

LONG_HAUL said:


> Tinu, what do you use to overlay your tracks on those custom maps? It looks awesome. Are the projections on your maps always compatible with the track log coordinate system? (WGS84).


Maps (Switzerland) are from map.geo.admin.ch , where you can directly plot kml files on the maps. So basically just exporting a move as kml.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

IronP said:


> Hi! Here my feedback:
> Yes...it was a non-stop training session and it took 2h26m, but I glanced the watch every 10min when the auto-lap was vibrating (really good and noticeable)!


Great job! Sounds like it was s lot of fun. Thanks.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

tinu80 said:


> Maps (Switzerland) are from map.geo.admin.ch , where you can directly plot kml files on the maps. So basically just exporting a move as kml.


I see. Thanks. It looks pretty neat.


----------



## tinu80

Part from the last run with easy GPS conditions but quite challenging trail (switchbacks). From now on I will only post if my runs happen to be in forested areas (which is quite rare 








HR monitoring was flawless in the last runs, will keep an eye on it.
What I really hope is that Suunto will make a big step forward in the next firmware update. There's so much things missing or unfinished at the moment. For example i cannot even define a simple interval training, lets say 4x4 min (can I?).


----------



## tinu80

...to the second image of the above post: This is the worst track part that I got so far.


----------



## Jaka83

Did a quick bicycle ride after work today and I'm pleased with the GPS performance and I love the new multi parameter display. There were some clouds in the sky, the road is pretty much out in the open with just a couple short tree areas along the way, so easy GPS tracking.

Took the old Ambit along for the ride - both watches were strapped on the handlebars and I wore both HR belts (yes, that looked stupid  ).









Spartan Ultra track:
Jaka_Jese's 1:20 h Cycling Move

Ambit track:
Jaka_Jese's 1:20 h Cycling Move


----------



## BystrousT

Jaka83 said:


> Did a quick bicycle ride after work today and I'm pleased with the GPS performance and I love the new multi parameter display. There were some clouds in the sky, the road is pretty much out in the open with just a couple short tree areas along the way, so easy GPS tracking.
> 
> Took the old Ambit along for the ride - both watches were strapped on the handlebars and I wore both HR belts (yes, that looked stupid


Hi, offtopic, can I ask You for your battery consumption? I posted some hours ago about my problems. How is your battery life during commonly wearing and during excercise? I am thinking about send my watches back due to high battery consumption. Thanks


----------



## Jaka83

BystrousT said:


> Hi, offtopic, can I ask You for your battery consumption? I posted some hours ago about my problems. How is your battery life during commonly wearing and during excercise? I am thinking about send my watches back due to high battery consumption. Thanks


I charged the watch yesterday evening (off the charger at about 11 PM) and let it sit on my nightstand throughout the night ... got up at 5:30 AM and checked the battery and it was at 98%. Wore the watch to work and after coming home at 4 PM the battery was at 88% ... after the short 1h bike ride the watch was at 70%. Haven't done a full cycle of the battery yet and I've only had it for two days now - my guess is that the battery needs some "running in", then it will perform at it's best.

The GPS accuracy on my bike ride was set at BEST and the BT discovery option is turned off, I rarely use the backlight and have it set on toggle.


----------



## PTBC

Anyone have their routes disappear and reappear? Just did a short route walking between two downtown office locations we have in work, used a route I had saved going over, coming back there were no routes on the watch, but once I had re-synced it with my phone back in the office they reappeared. I also couldn't see how you would select start point for a route (e.g. reverse the course) so assume that's not implemented yet, I guess as it isn't doing any navigation beyond displaying the marked route and your breadcrumbs realtive to that route so it doesn't need to do more at this point.
Once I was in options for an activity I couldn't seem to exit the options without using the long back press on the middle button, given the sorrowful state of their documentation it's hard to know if that's supposed to be the case or not. I hope along with the updated firmware a proper user manual is released, without having read the forum I'd be annoyed with trying to figure out some the watch interface issues.
The notifications and syncing to the phone (IOS) isn't great, once you dismiss a notification it's gone and you can't scroll through a long message, if you even get a notification is also hit and miss and I've yet to have the watch alert me that my phone is ringing (though I've only had 2 calls). In terms of day to day use I hope they improve this area along with everything else. A disconnect notice if it loses link to your phone would be handy (bluetooth icon on watchface/vibration)
For those interested the walk was in an area where my car GPS frequently fails due to high buildings etc. and given a lot of the pavements have overhanging glass covers over half their width the track wasn't great and I wasn't expecting to be (using walking activity it wasn't full GPS mode either). In terms of seeing if I was near where I needed to turn at intersections and rough progress along the route it was usable as a rough navigation tool though.
For the battery life comments, I fully charged it for the first time last night and it sat by the bed from 11pm, I've used it all day (6pm to 4pm) and done 2 short walking moves 20 mins each) and it's at 80% (started the morning at 97%), I have synced it to my phone 4 or 5 times though playing with movescount etc. which I assume is a usage hit. Will do an hours pool swim this evening so will be interesting to see overall battery use over first 24 hours.


----------



## rdm01

Jaka83 said:


> I charged the watch yesterday evening (off the charger at about 11 PM) and let it sit on my nightstand throughout the night ... got up at 5:30 AM and checked the battery and it was at 98%. Wore the watch to work and after coming home at 4 PM the battery was at 88% ... after the short 1h bike ride the watch was at 70%. Haven't done a full cycle of the battery yet and I've only had it for two days now - my guess is that the battery needs some "running in", then it will perform at it's best.
> 
> The GPS accuracy on my bike ride was set at BEST and the BT discovery option is turned off, I rarely use the backlight and have it set on toggle.


Try to change backlight to Automatic instead Toggle. I noted when the backlight set to toggle it keeps switched on and you don't see that where outside.

The lack of a light button is a bad choice IMO. I extensive use the toggle backlight with my A3 and Traverse and is great as a mini light during the night. In SSU I lost that feature!

deporteporvida.com


----------



## edit0r

BystrousT said:


> Hi, offtopic, can I ask You for your battery consumption? I posted some hours ago about my problems. How is your battery life during commonly wearing and during excercise? I am thinking about send my watches back due to high battery consumption. Thanks


Let's wait a little till the new software update comes along... it all might be from a firmware bug that drains the battery.
I did a soft reset yesterday and charge it to 100% again... and left it on the desk idling.... i'll check the battery drain this evening and see what happened.
Can you please try the same? Let's see if your drain is the same as mine while the watch is idling.
If it is I would say it's a firmware issue.

Mine has good GPS performance and performs ok (except those annoying bugs and GPS quirks that sometimes make) and honestly I don't want to risk an exchange or repair unless it is absolutely necessary.


----------



## Unperson

PTBC said:


> Anyone have their routes disappear and reappear? Just did a short route walking between two downtown office locations we have in work, used a route I had saved going over, coming back there were no routes on the watch, but once I had re-synced it with my phone back in the office they reappeared.


Yes, I ran into that last saturday, route put on the watch for a hike was gone once we got to the forest, bloody annoying.

Syncing seems to have issues. The Suuntolink app already got an update but the IOS app has no update yet. I blame the app, usually it states the watch is not connected but the watch says the phone is connected. The watch displays all texts, whatsapps, emails and agenda notifications just fine and the HR belt also works fine so clearly the bluetooth on the watch side is fine. Next time I go for a hike I'm going to switch bluetooth on my phone off to make sure it doesn't do anything to the watch anymore after the route is transferred.

I also put this in my bug/missing features report to Suunto via their site, I suggest you do the same, it might make them fix this faster


----------



## edit0r

Jaka83 said:


> I charged the watch yesterday evening (off the charger at about 11 PM) and let it sit on my nightstand throughout the night ... got up at 5:30 AM and checked the battery and it was at 98%. Wore the watch to work and after coming home at 4 PM the battery was at 88% ...


So roughly 17 hours - 12% battery drain... more or less is what I am seeing with my watch (10% for 19 hours, 100% sitting idle on my desk)...



Jaka83 said:


> after the short 1h bike ride the watch was at 70%.


1 hour of GPS = 15-18%....hmmm... not good



Jaka83 said:


> my guess is that the battery needs some "running in", then it will perform at it's best.


I charged my watch at least 5 times and I've did not notice an improvement in battery life... I even let the watch battery drain to 0% one time.

@Jaka83, @BystrousT Please open up tickets and report the high battery usage of the watch especially when used like a simple watch (mostly idle).... I opened a ticket but as you have seen they did not take me seriously. I don't believe that it is a hardware problem with the battery especially when we all seem to have the same high battery usage. We need to make Suunto aware of our problems so they can look into them.

Thank you !


----------



## Simurgh

Has anybody noticed that the price for SSU gone up on Suunto website?! 

The sport HR bundle was £399 yesterday (£359 without HR). Today it's £439 and £399!! 

Strange!! :S


----------



## jeremy1271

First test running with my A3P (+HRM belt) on the wrist and the SSU in the back pocket of my hydro belt (half of the run I felt the SSU was facing the ground). The run was a "city trail" with buildings, open area, and forest. I 've made "U-turns and "back and forth" track. I let you see the results on the 2 links below. I'm really pleased, except for the altitude which is wrong. Note: I didn't calibrate anything yet and during this run, the battery went from 86% to 76%.

Edit: Sorry, I'm I'm not allowed to post the 2 links here


----------



## jeremy1271

SSU on the left (17,31km°, A3P on the right (17,32km)


----------



## jeremy1271

Read SSU on top picture. Remember, the watch was in a pocket on my back, facing the ground for most of the run.


----------



## jeremy1271

Simurgh said:


> Has anybody noticed that the price for SSU gone up on Suunto website?!
> 
> The sport HR bundle was £399 yesterday (£359 without HR). Today it's £439 and £399!!
> 
> Strange!! :S


The price didn't change in France


----------



## Simurgh

jeremy1271 said:


> The price didn't change in France


Very strange.

They increased all the prices by £40 on all Spartan devices since today. Local dealers still sell them at lower price (the original one).


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Simurgh said:


> Very strange.
> 
> They increased all the prices by £40 on all Spartan devices since today. Local dealers still sell them at lower price (the original one).


Brexit surcharge?


----------



## dontango

Dear everybody!

i own a SSU Titanium Stealth (HR) and was happy so far. i'm well aware of our beta-testing, but that's no different to ambit1,2,3 and still better than any fenix experience...
that said i have one major problem now and i want to know if i'm alone with that. found nothing in the interwebs..

yesterday i could not get my HR to work. so i figured that maybe the battery was running empty (even though it should not since it's brand new out of the box...).

so i checked with my iphone and it saw the smart sensor and was able to pair. so i worked around the spartan unpairing everything, forgetting even the movescount app pairing,etc...

repairing still not working. so i though that it might work if i reapply the firmware, for a fresh start... btw is there a way for a hard-reset on the watch. or at least to power it down?

as you can imagine. has not helped either.

then came the big bummer. since i unpaired my iphone i tried to pair it again. only to find out that my iphone could not see that damn watch. so obviously some major bluetooth problem. turning on/off discovery mode on the watch did not help. trying to see it with other devices -> no success.

currently, it looks like the bluetooth died. pretty strange cause everything worked the day before.
the only unexpected thing that it happened, that i totally drained the spartan battery cause i forgot to stop a move. but that should not kill your bluetooth, right?

calling suunto was no help either. they told me that there are connectivity problems, blahblah, and they asked my to wait for the new firmware before sending it back.
the guy on the phone had no clue and i don't blame him. 

i just don't know what a new firmware would bring if everything worked fine with the current one until a day ago. so for me that is not a bug but a hardware issue.

anyone out there with similar problems and a workaround?

analyzing the suuntolog did not help either. no bluetooth related hardware info in it.

>_<

thx and regards from vienna


----------



## XCJagge

pressing the topmost button for 10 sec makes some kind of reset (or was it all buttons together?).


----------



## BystrousT

rdm01 said:


> Try to change backlight to Automatic instead Toggle. I noted when the backlight set to toggle it keeps switched on and you don't see that where outside.
> 
> The lack of a light button is a bad choice IMO. I extensive use the toggle backlight with my A3 and Traverse and is great as a mini light during the night. In SSU I lost that feature!
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I have no problem with this. If use the automatic mode, its light on more often then I really need (notifications, and more time, when the watch think, that I need the backligt)


----------



## BystrousT

edit0r said:


> So roughly 17 hours - 12% battery drain... more or less is what I am seeing with my watch (10% for 19 hours, 100% sitting idle on my desk)...
> 
> 1 hour of GPS = 15-18%....hmmm... not good
> 
> I charged my watch at least 5 times and I've did not notice an improvement in battery life... I even let the watch battery drain to 0% one time.
> 
> @Jaka83, @BystrousT Please open up tickets and report the high battery usage of the watch especially when used like a simple watch (mostly idle).... I opened a ticket but as you have seen they did not take me seriously. I don't believe that it is a hardware problem with the battery especially when we all seem to have the same high battery usage. We need to make Suunto aware of our problems so they can look into them.
> 
> Thank you !


I dont know what You mean by "Open up ticket", but I wrote the suunto support two days ago, and today I get "funny" answer with that I can change GPS accuracy (Best, Good, Ok) to gain battery life. Any answer about that SSU have high consumption in normal watch mode.


----------



## Unperson

dontango said:


> currently, it looks like the bluetooth died. pretty strange cause everything worked the day before.
> the only unexpected thing that it happened, that i totally drained the spartan battery cause i forgot to stop a move. but that should not kill your bluetooth, right?
> 
> calling suunto was no help either. they told me that there are connectivity problems, blahblah, and they asked my to wait for the new firmware before sending it back.
> the guy on the phone had no clue and i don't blame him.
> 
> i just don't know what a new firmware would bring if everything worked fine with the current one until a day ago. so for me that is not a bug but a hardware issue.
> 
> anyone out there with similar problems and a workaround?


I think quite a few of us have reported strange syncing problems, but that was mostly focused on Watch to Phone/computer connectivity. If you have a problem with the HR belt that's a whole different problem that is separate from anything phones and computers do. I personally consider my iphone app to be buggy. But my HR belt works fine (and so does messaging from my phone to the watch but the phone just doesn't know).

Waiting for a new watch firmware could still help but I wouldn't accept a Suunto explanation about problems with phone apps when bluetooth between a watch and a HR belt fails.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

XCJagge said:


> pressing the topmost button for 10 sec makes some kind of reset (or was it all buttons together?).


It is 12, not 10 seconds. For a visual feedback of when the reset was triggered, just set it for a watch face that shows seconds. With that watch face showing, press and hold the top button. You will notice after 12 seconds the seconds will stop being updated on the watch face. Once you release the button, then the watch will reboot. Was there one involving more than one button? I must have missed that on this thread. What is it?


----------



## edit0r

BystrousT said:


> I dont know what You mean by "Open up ticket", but I wrote the suunto support two days ago, and today I get "funny" answer with that I can change GPS accuracy (Best, Good, Ok) to gain battery life. Any answer about that SSU have high consumption in normal watch mode.


Yeah... I meant to write to Suunto support.
Yeah... I got funny answer as well, like I should set my light on auto not toggle.... when I specifically said that I took it off charger and that I never touched it for 19 hours... not at all... no buttons pushed.. the screen was off... and so on
I'll ignore the funny comments and keep writing till they take me seriously.

One more story to mention...
The Fenix 3 HR had also battery drain issues... and probably I was one of the first ones to detect them and open up tickets about it... at one point they wanted them to change my watch because they had suspicions that there is something wrong with it, no one else complained before probably... I did not wanted that because it worked fine and the drains were one when the BT was on (mostly)... In the end I was right, my watch was fine... the firmware + watch BT + phone BT + Android Garmin app was a bad combination for the watch battery.... they sorted out in the end.
I am afraid that if I will send my Spartan in for repairs I will get a refurbished back and I am trying really hard to avoid that.


----------



## Pegasus

Simurgh said:


> Very strange.
> 
> They increased all the prices by £40 on all Spartan devices since today. Local dealers still sell them at lower price (the original one).


Just checked, definitely a price change, Ultra black gone up £10 I think as well. Probably need more money to fix the problems with it 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

If they have acknowledged there are connectivity issues then as stated in the post about the Garmin issue that could well be the main culprit for battery drain. If a watch left alone is constantly trying to establish a connection to the phone it will drain the battery even though it appears to be doing nothing.

After first 24 hours I was down to 67% after all day usage and two short city walks of 20 mins each and a 35 min trail run (actually intervals though you cant set that) , it was 70% when I went to sleep and dropped 3% overnight (11:30pm to 6am). The trail run was along a creek in a canyon (which is itself part of a valley) with full tree coverage, steep bank to one side, stairs and switchbacks also it was raining so pretty much lousy GPS conditions. The track wasn't too bad, though it clearly lost me in a couple of spots, definitely a difference between going down and coming back with the watch facing different sides. seemed to react to changes in pace well, will try to sort out posting a copy of the track later.
I usually discount the initial battery cycle of a device as I tend to be playing with the device while I figure stuff out so assume my usage is above normal, wonder what the general opinion is of letting it run down the first couple of cycles rather than treating it as normal.


----------



## Anthony5280

That makes sense and is unfortunate. I may be in the minority but I would have preferred a high-end, high resolution, monochrome screen in lieu of the color/touch display. I agree the marketing folks did a bit of disservice to the engineers. The cost on mine ended up at $912 with shipping and taxes. I wouldn't have minded the screen if I had paid half that. Thanks for the information. 

Another bit of feedback I sent to suunto is on their list functionality. It is a small thing but I would like to see infinite or looping lists. i.e. at the end of a list I would like to see it loop back to the top item in the list.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

The Spartan Sport models are now available. This thread is for the Ultra, as it says in the title. But since there is no dedicated thread for the Spartan Sport yet, I would imagine some users might end up here. If you got a Spartan Sport, I would be curious to know what the software version is presently. Wondering if software/functionality will be in sync between the two product lines. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## petem99

LONG_HAUL said:


> It is 12, not 10 seconds. For a visual feedback of when the reset was triggered, just set it for a watch face that shows seconds. With that watch face showing, press and hold the top button. You will notice after 12 seconds the seconds will stop being updated on the watch face. Once you release the button, then the watch will reboot. Was there one involving more than one button? I must have missed that on this thread. What is it?


When the question of rebooting the watch came up a while back someone posted that you had to hold all three buttons for a long time (probably the 12 seconds). Someone else pointed out that you only need to hold the top button down for 12 seconds, not all of them. So I think the suggestion about needing to hold all three buttons was probably just a mistake - maybe somebody tried it and the watch did reboot, but only because the top button was down (so the other buttons weren't actually making any difference). I've not seen anything to confirm that holding all three buttons does anything different, though I guess that's possible as it could do something like wiping all the settings before rebooting.


----------



## petem99

It was posted a few days ago that version 2.1.31 of Suuntolink was available (and the release notes for it are on the Suunto site), but mine is still on 2.1.27 and isn't offering an update. I did try downloading it again from the Suunto site and reinstalling but still ended up with 2.1.27. Has anyone on a Mac had an update, or are we all still stuck on 2.1.27? What about people on Windows - did you get an update?


----------



## BystrousT

edit0r said:


> Yeah... I meant to write to Suunto support.
> Yeah... I got funny answer as well, like I should set my light on auto not toggle.... when I specifically said that I took it off charger and that I never touched it for 19 hours... not at all... no buttons pushed.. the screen was off... and so on
> I'll ignore the funny comments and keep writing till they take me seriously.
> 
> One more story to mention...
> The Fenix 3 HR had also battery drain issues... and probably I was one of the first ones to detect them and open up tickets about it... at one point they wanted them to change my watch because they had suspicions that there is something wrong with it, no one else complained before probably... I did not wanted that because it worked fine and the drains were one when the BT was on (mostly)... In the end I was right, my watch was fine... the firmware + watch BT + phone BT + Android Garmin app was a bad combination for the watch battery.... they sorted out in the end.
> I am afraid that if I will send my Spartan in for repairs I will get a refurbished back and I am trying really hard to avoid that.


I wrote them again (reply on crappy answer which I got) I fully charged SSU on tuesday morning and now on thursday evening I have only 40% of battery capacity. I did only 50min excercise per these three days. Crap..


----------



## Cyberbob13

Yes, I got an update for Suuntolink a few days ago - running Win 10.

On another note, I am quite satisfied with the GPS performance of the SSU when GPS environment conditions are fine (open sky) but as soon as I get under trees (and even it is only a small part of a forest) the track is totally off. Very frustrating for a long-term V800 user who was used to get near to perfect tracks in each and every condition.


----------



## Unperson

I got an email back from Suunto today, in my report I mostly mentioned some navigation issues. They mentioned some of the missing features were already planned to be resolved, they specifically mentioned POI's as coming in 2016. They also mentioned they already had bugs listed for some of the other things I mentioned that and that these should be resolved in coming updates(compass declination and reference altitude). On top of that they also asked for more information about my watch firmware, windows version et cetera for the 'disappearing routes' issue. 

So they are clearly aware of a lot of things and working on them. I was quite happy with their answer. Good to know that last link that was posted actually went to a form that worked


----------



## thyokel

Windows version 2.1.31 okay, Mac nope. Still the same 2.1.27 after uninstall, reinstall new copy download from Movescount which suppose to be 2.1.31.



petem99 said:


> It was posted a few days ago that version 2.1.31 of Suuntolink was available (and the release notes for it are on the Suunto site), but mine is still on 2.1.27 and isn't offering an update. I did try downloading it again from the Suunto site and reinstalling but still ended up with 2.1.27. Has anyone on a Mac had an update, or are we all still stuck on 2.1.27? What about people on Windows - did you get an update?


----------



## petem99

thyokel said:


> Windows version 2.1.31 okay, Mac nope. Still the same 2.1.27 after uninstall, reinstall new copy download from Movescount which suppose to be 2.1.31.


Thanks, that confirms what I suspected so I won't waste any more time chasing it. So I'm stuck on an out of date version of Suuntolink, and my phone is Android so that doesn't work with the watch at all. Still, one day when the Spartan is actually finished I'm sure both things will get sorted out.


----------



## Jaka83

rdm01 said:


> Try to change backlight to Automatic instead Toggle. I noted when the backlight set to toggle it keeps switched on and you don't see that where outside.
> 
> The lack of a light button is a bad choice IMO. I extensive use the toggle backlight with my A3 and Traverse and is great as a mini light during the night. In SSU I lost that feature!
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I like it better on toggle ... with the automatic setting the light is on every time I touch the watch. With toggle I've never had any inadvertently toggled backlight scenarios.

Adding to the battery drain issue: 24 hours of just wearing the watch or leaving it resting on the nightstand, my watch drained 10% of battery - that would come up to about 240 hours of battery life in watch mode, which is 80 hours less than advertised. And I know I can't judge on just one exercise, but my findings are that the Ultra is capable of around 5-6 hours of exercise tracking at the best settings for GPS in the state that it is now.

This weekend I'll go hiking/trekking in Austria and will take both watches (Ambit1 and SSU) with me ... I'll carry a battery pack with me as well, just in case the SSU wets it's pants during the hike.

Still hoping for the best, the FW update is on 5th September (info by salesperson on the BETA tester program).


----------



## tinu80

Mine went down from 100% to 97% in 12h overnight. I have switched off "discovery" and "notifications".


----------



## WEM

Jaka83 said:


> Still hoping for the best, the FW update is on 5th September (info by salesperson on the BETA tester program).


Do they say, if this is a public update or only for beta testers? Suunto employees said the the update is planned for end of september in a few comments in facebook/FAQ section on Suunto website.

Werner


----------



## rdm01

WEM said:


> Do they say, if this is a public update or only for beta testers? Suunto employees said the the update is planned for end of september in a few comments in facebook/FAQ section on Suunto website.
> 
> Werner


In Spain Suunto's guys are saying one update next week and second one at the end of September

deporteporvida.com


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## WEM

rdm01 said:


> In Spain Suunto's guys are saying one update next week and second one at the end of September
> 
> deporteporvida.com


That sounds great.


----------



## edit0r

Regarding my battery issues... 

Got this from Suunto:

We have forwarded your case to our colleagues in the Spartan Project Team. They have confirmed that, based on your description, the behavior of the device is unusual and the best course of action at this moment will be to send it to a service center and have it examined by a technician in order to discover any possible malfunctions. 

Don't really know what to do now... I don't like to repair a 3 weeks old watch... or to get in return a refurbished... or to wait 2 weeks... because in my country there is no official Suunto Service center...

At this point I am disappointed by the Made in Finnish quality. Given the watch is brand new I want a new one in return not a repaired one.

Before sending it in I will try a reset, force firmware update, turn off discovery and have another 24h test.


----------



## BystrousT

Yesterday I wrote to Customer support again with deeper explanation of battery issue and Today I got new answer, where says: "This is not a normal behaviour of the battery life for Suunto Spartan Ultra.
In this case we kindly recommend you to send the device to the Service Center in order for our technicians to review the unit." Once the unit is received, our engineers will inspect it and take the needed measures. The turnaround time for the whole process is 7 to 10 business days.

You have also the option to return the watch and be refunded if the caseS

So what do you mean? Should I try this proces? Maybe two years aho I have battery issue with Ambit, they changed the battery in watches and it works great after that. Or I should wait for firmware update?


----------



## BystrousT

Yes I got very similar answer, so what we will do? Send or wait..


----------



## edit0r

I also emailed my seller and asked him to exchange my watch with a new one because I don't want to have a 3 weeks watch repaired... I can probably return it and ask for a refund and buy a new one...
Most likely I will wait for the next firmware and see what happens then...
Anyway, if you send it in for repairs please tell us how it went when you get it back.


----------



## WEM

How many % of battery does your watches loose when placed over night?

I've also observed that my watch looses 3-4% of battery over night in about 8-10h placed on desk. Found it a lot more than my old Ambit2


----------



## BystrousT

WEM said:


> How many % of battery does your watches loose when placed over night?
> 
> I've also observed that my watch looses 3-4% of battery over night in about 8-10h placed on desk. Found it a lot more than my old Ambit2


Today I lost 3% over night. Now I have 37% and I think that for saturday's race i will must charge SSU again.


----------



## WEM

So more or less same than me.

Ambit3 has a battery with 500mAh capacity. So a drain of 1%/night (10h) would mean 500uA consumption. (in sleep mode)

Our 3% in ~10h would mean: 1,5mA per hour. (also calculated with 500mAh battery)

A typical uC consumes between few uA in deep sleep up to a few mA in low power mode. Additionally you need to supply some sensor to detect that watch shall switch one when moved...

This higher consumption is eigther a HW design problem (components can't be switched of in sleep mode), defect of HW components or a SW problem with the configuration of uC sleep/deep sleep mode.

My experience is, that is usualy the configuration von uC....

Werner

EDIT: In Ambit2 Suunto has used a TI MSP430F5659 uC (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/msp430f5659.pdf). This uC has a low power mode that consumes ~2-150uA. Depending on HW and SW configuration and temperature...


----------



## IronP

BystrousT said:


> Today I lost 3% over night. Now I have 37% and I think that for saturday's race i will must charge SSU again.


I am using the SSU since almost two weeks now and since then, I have a battery consumption of 2% over night. However I am not sure about the accuracy of the % showned in the watch. When I charge the watch at 100%, after unplugging the charger to use the watch, after less than 10min, the watch is by 99%.


----------



## edit0r

IronP said:


> When I charge the watch at 100%, after unplugging the charger to use the watch, after less than 10min, the watch is by 99%.


This happens to me too


----------



## Nicholas2

It seems to me that most of these problems will be solved over time. Right now would be better, but nevertheless, having the device early enables a building up of familiarity plus the excitement when extra features and bug fixes are added. Looking at it another way - not excitement, but stress-relief, as bug-fixes are added .

I'm using a Garmin Vivoactive. This too had fast battery drains, bugs and unusual behaviour. All of these things have disappeared with subsequent firmware updates. Functionality has also improved. No actual hardware problems. I imagine the SSU will follow a similar course.

I like the *idea* of the SSU and its potential and will likely spring for one during the next week. Reports on Monday's firmware update if heading in the right direction will certainly encourage me .


----------



## Hecke

got my first severe glitch of the SSU gps readings, see image below. Red is SSU, yellow Ambit 2S
At the point where the tracks begin to diverge (top middle), I had a short stop to stretch out my legs. Can this be a reason for the gps to get confused?

On the other hand I must say that the silicone strap and the missing bump of the SSU are much nicer to wear than my Ambit2S, which tends to irritate some wrist bones.


----------



## edit0r

Hecke said:


> Can this be a reason for the gps to get confused?


Nope, I don't think that's the reason. I would say it's just a glitch caused by a bug.
Let's wait and hope that it will be solved in the first patch.
Please share the run with Suunto support to make them aware of the problem.
I would like to believe our feedback helps them.


----------



## Hecke

edit0r said:


> Please share the run with Suunto support to make them aware of the problem.


Done. submitting via the contact form worked flawlessly.


----------



## petem99

Jaka83 said:


> And I know I can't judge on just one exercise, but my findings are that the Ultra is capable of around 5-6 hours of exercise tracking at the best settings for GPS in the state that it is now.


That's interesting. I've only done a few activities so far, the longest of which was a 5 hour mountain bike ride (in Best GPS mode) and with the watch on about 95% at the start it was still at something like 70% at the end. So it used about 25% in 5 hours, which would equate to about 20 hours from 100% to flat. I didn't write down the exact percentages so the 20 hours wouldn't be exactly right and in any case the percentage indication may well not be linear, and without trying it I don't know at what percentage it would actually shut down (so it may cut out at say 5% rather than 0%), but I'd still say the battery life I'm seeing during exercise ties in pretty well with the 18 hours Suunto claim in Best GPS mode. The other activities I've done were shorter but showed a similar rate of battery usage (so they used less than 25%).

So if you're not getting similar battery life, it could be that you really do have a defective watch, or the activity you're using it for is taking more power than mine, or you're using some feature that I'm not. The only thing connected to mine during exercise is a Tickr X HR belt. I don't have a phone connection, and Discovery is off. Come to think of it, my daily drain was a bit higher when Discovery was on so that's worth looking at.

I do have the impression that it's probably using more in time mode than they say it should, and I don't think it would last the 15 days they claim but it's hard to say as I always recharge before any activity just to be on the safe side so it's not getting to run down very far just in time mode.


----------



## Pegasus

Hi all,

To those who have the Spartan Ultra, is a wearable as an everyday watch from a size and comfort point of view?

Interested in how you find it.

Many thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edit0r

Pegasus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> To those who have the Spartan Ultra, is a wearable as an everyday watch from a size and comfort point of view?


For me, my wrist size it's great. The wrist band is great, very smooth texture ,nice to the touch, very comfortable.
The watch is a tiny little bit too thick for my liking but I always prefer a bigger battery so I have to deal with the size.
The watch design is great... I love it a lot.. 
It feel very light also...


----------



## Pegasus

edit0r said:


> For me, my wrist size it's great. The wrist band is great, very smooth texture ,nice to the touch, very comfortable.
> The watch is a tiny little bit too thick for my liking but I always prefer a bigger battery so I have to deal with the size.
> The watch design is great... I love it a lot..
> It feel very light also...


Thanks for the reply. I have a Traverse which I wear daily, I've not seen a side by side shot between it and the Ultra to be able to compare.

Great about the comfort factor, I like the soft silicone straps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

After 48 hours I was at 50% with everyday usages (maybe slightly higher usage than normal as it's new so trying out stuff) which includes 30 mins walking with GPS, 40 mins trail run with GPS and 40 mins pool swim. The first 2 nights it fell 3% overnight, this morning it was only down to 49% in the morning.

For the pool swim it appears to have deducted 100 metres off the total at the end, not sure what that is about and I wasn't counting laps so not sure if it's correct. Also the laps shown on the device and the log book are interval laps, so it only autolaps resets when you stop, a turn and push off is recorded as part of the same lap (on movescount you can see each length though)


----------



## BystrousT

PTBC said:


> After 48 hours I was at 50% with everyday usages (maybe slightly higher usage than normal as it's new so trying out stuff) which includes 30 mins walking with GPS, 40 mins trail run with GPS and 40 mins pool swim. The first 2 nights it fell 3% overnight, this morning it was only down to 49% in the morning.
> 
> For the pool swim it appears to have deducted 100 metres off the total at the end, not sure what that is about and I wasn't counting laps so not sure if it's correct. Also the laps shown on the device and the log book are interval laps, so it only autolaps resets when you stop, a turn and push off is recorded as part of the same lap (on movescount you can see each length though)


I have same troubles with pool swimming. During the swim it showing correct distance, but in Movescount is it about 100m shorter (50m pool). It happens twice to me. Maybe because there no able to teach SSU swim styles ? I dont know...

Does anyone know the official date of firmware updade? Is it 5th or later, how someone wrote here?


----------



## WEM

BystrousT said:


> I have same troubles with pool swimming. During the swim it showing correct distance, but in Movescount is it about 100m shorter (50m pool). It happens twice to me. Maybe because there no able to teach SSU swim styles ? I dont know...
> 
> Does anyone know the official date of firmware updade? Is it 5th or later, how someone wrote here?


from the Suunto website. http://www.suunto.com/Worlds/Training-World/Software-updates/Spartan-gets-stronger/

UPCOMING UPDATES
There will be two SW updates to Spartan Solution in September. The first release on the second week of September will bring bug fixes and usability improvements to both Spartan Ultra and Spartan Sport watches.

The second update later in September will bring the following features to the solution:

Customization of sport mode settings
Android compatibility
Peer-to-Peer coaching in Suunto Movescount
Annual / all-time personal best dashboard with age group comparison in Suunto Movescount 
Long-term progress analysis in Suunto Movescount
Community training insights from peer groups in Suunto Movescount
Weekly planning tools for yourself and your coach in Suunto Movescount
Alarm clock


----------



## PTBC

For me it's fine, comfortable to wear, fits under a shirt cuff (only just), while I've had it for 3 days I have no issue with it from size and comfort for everyday use. Notifications needs a lot of work though to be useful for day to day use


----------



## Simurgh

Has anyone bought Sport version? 

I am arguing with myself for a few days now. I like the thinner profile much better. But they just increased the prices in the UK for all SSU by £40 and that kinda sucks.

Do they ship them yet? I couldn't find any videos anywhere apart from that one from 2 weeks ago.


----------



## PTBC

I've been looking at the specification under the store listing as they have started marking some with "coming to Spartan" though that just links to the Spartan stronger page and doesn't have any dates/details that tie back to the feature list directly

I've also added my own comments from what I've seen so far where the Suunto feature may not be complete, I didn't bother listing features/specs that are already there and are working or I haven't tested yet


FeatureSuunto CommentCommentTouch screen lock coming to SpartanBattery indicatorpercentage / iconHaven't seen an icon- the battery symbol next to the % displayed under Exercise always shows full, no watchface displayAlarm clock coming to Spartan1 daily alarmComing - but some functionality (multiple alarms with week/weekend selection for example) would be betterBattery life in time mode15 daysTBCDeclination correctionSeems to be buggyPhone notifications on the watchwith Suunto Movescount AppVery limited fucntionality, only briefly displayed and no ability to view recent notifications or multiple notification, often the body content is missing nad you can't scroll through a message, font is small and not changeableActivity monitoring
Steps only, Acitivity monitoring implies a wider range than one metric (sleep tracking for example)Satellite systemsGPS, GLONASSGLONASS to be enabled? No one seems sure at moment if it's on or off, certainly not selectableWaypoint and visual route navigationYou can see a track and where you are in relation to it, so yes it's visual, wouldn't call it waypoint navigation and no notification of approacinh waypoints or any routing function (Turn by turn isn't mentioned in list, seem to recall it was on there before)Personal route library coming to Spartanwith Suunto Movescount AppNot sure what this means, routes do not show up on the phone AppBattery life (GPS active)18h (in Full Power 1sec GPS fix rate, best GPS accuracy), 26h (in Power Save 1sec GPS fix rate, good GPS accuracy), 65h (in Power Save 60sec GPS fix rate, OK GPS accuracy)TBCTemperatureRecords it but seems no way to display it apart from recording a move and looking at it afterwardsAutomatic alti/baro profile coming to SpartanMove altitude graph in Move summary coming to Spartanon watchDistance and duration based autolapsDistance only as far as I've seenActivity based recovery time
Shows total recovery time, not sure if this means it's split by activity type?Day insights (race, training, active, recovery & rest) coming to Spartanon watchDay insights comingin Suunto Movescount.com and with Suunto Movescount AppFeeling stored after training to watch coming to SpartanPlanned Move coming to Spartanon watchPlan a week comingin Suunto Movescount.comCoach made plans comingin Suunto Movescount.comCoach to client communication comingin Suunto Movescount.comCoach to supervise my public/private training coming in Suunto Movescount.comMove summary with lap detailson watchFor pool swimming only shows interval laps not lengths on watch, Movescount has bothAnnual and all time personal bests compared to age group coming
in Suunto Movescount.comCommunity training insights based goals comingin Suunto Movescount.comPersonal best identification coming to Spartanon watchPersonal best insight of month vs year coming to Spartanon watchPersonal best insights comingin Suunto Movescount.com and with Suunto Movescount AppProgress analysis with graph comparisons comingin Suunto Movescount.comProgress analysis with personal best trends comingin Suunto Movescount.comProgress analysis with scatter diagrams comingin Suunto Movescount.comSwimming stroke rate, count and typeType isn't shown yetCustomizable sport modes and displays coming to Spartan
Graphical displays in sport modes coming to Spartangraphs, bar charts, curveSport modes for specific purpose (racing, intervals, long training...)Has it for some sports, not all and not sure what the purpose of interval mode is if you can't set the intervals or some sort of indicator to vibrate/beep on switch


----------



## Jaka83

petem99 said:


> That's interesting. I've only done a few activities so far, the longest of which was a 5 hour mountain bike ride (in Best GPS mode) and with the watch on about 95% at the start it was still at something like 70% at the end. So it used about 25% in 5 hours, which would equate to about 20 hours from 100% to flat. I didn't write down the exact percentages so the 20 hours wouldn't be exactly right and in any case the percentage indication may well not be linear, and without trying it I don't know at what percentage it would actually shut down (so it may cut out at say 5% rather than 0%), but I'd still say the battery life I'm seeing during exercise ties in pretty well with the 18 hours Suunto claim in Best GPS mode. The other activities I've done were shorter but showed a similar rate of battery usage (so they used less than 25%).
> 
> So if you're not getting similar battery life, it could be that you really do have a defective watch, or the activity you're using it for is taking more power than mine, or you're using some feature that I'm not. The only thing connected to mine during exercise is a Tickr X HR belt. I don't have a phone connection, and Discovery is off. Come to think of it, my daily drain was a bit higher when Discovery was on so that's worth looking at.
> 
> I do have the impression that it's probably using more in time mode than they say it should, and I don't think it would last the 15 days they claim but it's hard to say as I always recharge before any activity just to be on the safe side so it's not getting to run down very far just in time mode.


To clarify ... I wrote that I can't judge from just one exercise, but it looks like my projected battery life is like that. I'll do a longer hike this weekend and will report on the battery life then - I'll be doing some route navigation too and see how that goes. The only thing connected to my SSU is the HR belt, I have discovery turned off and my phone runs Android and doesn't even see the watch for now. Also the backlight is at 60% and I rarely turn it on.


----------



## thyokel

My only watch. I wear it everyday. It is comfortable.



Pegasus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> To those who have the Spartan Ultra, is a wearable as an everyday watch from a size and comfort point of view?
> 
> Interested in how you find it.
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edit0r

More on my battery issue:

I've reset the watch (forced firmware re flash) ... charge it to 100%, took it off the charger, put it on my desk and I did NOT touch it over the period of 15 hours.
The screen was off, the backlight off, the discovery was off.
After 15 hours the batter went down 8%
More of less is what I was getting before
Yes, from my point of view it goes down very fast given that it's idling and the screen is off (Spartan enters a very deep sleep and turns off the screen completely when it detects that it's off your wrist)

In comparison (just to give you an idea) my Fenix 3 HR (with 24h HR monitoring) drains the battery 5-6% a day... with 24h HR monitoring off around 3-4%.

This is the last test I am gonna make... the reset and resoftware obviously did not help at all.


Can you guys please help me out duplicating my test and tell me what your numbers are?
Can you keep it on the desk as much as possible... the more the better... I would say around 12 hours would be great to give me a clue about a 24h battery drain.

Thank you !


----------



## IronP

I did a battery consumption log for a normal day use, plus a night, so you guys have an idea about battery life in real world:Watch settings: notifications "on", backlight "40%" and discovery "off"
- Overnight charging
- 08:00: 100%
- breakfast
- 10min bike home-office
- 08:30: 98%
- Office work
- 11:30: 96%
- 1x sync with the mobile app
- 12:30: 95%
- 10min bike office-restaurant
- lunch
- 10min bike restaurant-office
- 13:30: 92%
- Office work
- 15:30: 91%
- 16:45: 90%
- 10min bike office-home
- 17:00: 89%
- walk/public transport to the lake
- open water swim 40min (without HR)
- 19:40: 81%
- walk some time to find a place to eat
- dinner
- 22:10: 79%
- reaching 10'000 steps
- 23:00: 77%
- watch on the table
- no charging overnight
- 10:00: 72% (far from the 2% overnight, that I´ve got last week)


----------



## WEM

My watch has lost about 7% (38 to 31%) in 12h lying on desk last night.

So roughly the same...

Gesendet von meinem SM-T815 mit Tapatalk


----------



## NickYanakiev

For people, who are still on the fence (especially given the recent UK price increase):

Just got an email from OutdoorGB, who have a special weekend offer for the SSU. There is a £50 discount on all SSU models with the following code: SPARTANLAUNCH. 
Enjoy!


----------



## kallet

I had my watch lying on desk over night (about 11 hours) and it went from 65% to 64%.


----------



## WEM

kallet said:


> I had my watch lying on desk over night (about 11 hours) and it went from 65% to 64%.


 now I'm shocked... what's the difference between our and your watch. can you say a few words about (wtch face, pared sensors, configuration,...)

My watch is configured like follows:

* Std. analog Watch face (Factory Setting)
* pared with HR sensor
* Bluetooth discovery set to OFF
* Not pared with mobile phone (Android phone / not supported yet)
* Background light set to toggle mode

What I've seen now is, that I had switched on "mobile notifations" - doesn't make sense when not pared. I'll switch it off and come back if this changes something....


----------



## Simurgh

NickYanakiev said:


> For people, who are still on the fence (especially given the recent UK price increase):
> 
> Just got an email from OutdoorGB, who have a special weekend offer for the SSU. There is a £50 discount on all SSU models with the following code: SPARTANLAUNCH.
> Enjoy!


Great stuff! 
Do you know any place in the UK they sell the sport version?


----------



## Pegasus

How does the strap attach on the SSU? Do you need specific straps or is it generic?

Many thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kallet

Sure, my watch is configured as below (not sure if all of these affect the battery):
- Sound, buttons off
- Background light set to automatic, brightness 15% (its enough for me to clearly se the display)
- Paired with HR sensor
- Bluetooth discovery set to ON
- Receive message alerts set to ON
- Not paired with iPhone
- 6th watch face


----------



## kallet

WEM said:


> now I'm shocked... what's the difference between our and your watch. can you say a few words about (wtch face, pared sensors, configuration,...)
> 
> My watch is configured like follows:
> 
> * Std. analog Watch face (Factory Setting)
> * pared with HR sensor
> * Bluetooth discovery set to OFF
> * Not pared with mobile phone (Android phone / not supported yet)
> * Background light set to toggle mode
> 
> What I've seen now is, that I had switched on "mobile notifations" - doesn't make sense when not pared. I'll switch it off and come back if this changes something....


Sure, my watch is configured as below (not sure if all of these affect the battery):
- Sound, buttons off
- Background light set to automatic, brightness 15% (its enough for me to clearly se the display)
- Paired with HR sensor
- Bluetooth discovery set to ON
- Receive message alerts set to ON
- Not paired with iPhone
- 6th watch face


----------



## WEM

Thx, I don't have any clue why.... switched off receive messages and layed it back on desk. 1% in two hours, more or less the same than before.

Maybe there is some dependency with the watch face?!?


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## ginge

has anybody information about POIs? and with the mgrs gps system?? at the beginning it was listed in the spezifications, but now its not!


----------



## IronP

kallet said:


> Sure, my watch is configured as below (not sure if all of these affect the battery):
> - Sound, buttons off
> - Background light set to automatic, brightness 15% (its enough for me to clearly se the display)
> - Paired with HR sensor
> - Bluetooth discovery set to ON
> - Receive message alerts set to ON
> - Not paired with iPhone
> - 6th watch face


Mine:
- display, analog with complications
- sounds all off
- vibration buttons off
- backlight in automatic at 40%
- paired with HR
- paired with run pod
- paired with bike cadence
- discovery off
- notifications on
- paired with iphone


----------



## IronP

What hardware number do you guys have?
Mine is: 1740G1

To access yours, go to settings/general/about


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## WEM

HW 1740G1 too


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## jeremy1271

I have 1740*G2*


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## IronP

Hopefully I am wrong, but seems that the "...G1"s have some trouble with battery consumption?
Would be interesting to know more from other users!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WEM

hm. my watch with hw 1740g1 is a titanium all black. yours?


----------



## IronP

WEM said:


> hm. my watch with hw 1740g1 is a titanium all black. yours?


SSU all black 1740G1
What about your GPS performance? I must say, I didn't notice big differences in comparison to my A3P.
I do not see discrepancies in the route as some users are posting in here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WEM

IronP said:


> SSU all black 1740G1
> What about your GPS performance? I must say, I didn't notice big differences in comparison to my A3P.
> I do not see discrepancies in the route as some users are posting in here.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Me too. More or less the same GPS performance than my Ambit2...


----------



## edit0r

kallet said:


> I had my watch lying on desk over night (about 11 hours) and it went from 65% to 64%.


I am sorry but that I find hard to believe... Given on what people are posting and based on my experience...


----------



## IronP

So....maybe...the "...G1"s are having high battery consumption but better gps performance...
While the "...G2"s the opposite!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ingo

WEM said:


> Thx, I don't have any clue why.... switched off receive messages and layed it back on desk. 1% in two hours, more or less the same than before.
> 
> Maybe there is some dependency with the watch face?!?


Maybe retest it at 65% as well. People here mentioned before that battery drain is not exactly a linear function.


----------



## WEM

IronP said:


> So....maybe...the "...G1"s are having high battery consumption but better gps performance...
> While the "...G2"s the opposite!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hope you are not right...


----------



## rdm01

jeremy1271 said:


> I have 1740*G2*


Me too

deporteporvida.com


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## WEM

rdm01 said:


> Me too
> 
> deporteporvida.com


what's your variant? all black, stealth....


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## rdm01

IronP said:


> So....maybe...the "...G1"s are having high battery consumption but better gps performance...
> While the "...G2"s the opposite!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I got G2 with great GPS accuracy and "good" battery consumption (7% during 1 hour GPS activity and 2% during the night ~9 hours).

deporteporvida.com


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## edit0r

kallet said:


> Sure, my watch is configured as below (not sure if all of these affect the battery):
> - Sound, buttons off
> - Background light set to automatic, brightness 15% (its enough for me to clearly se the display)
> - Paired with HR sensor
> - Bluetooth discovery set to ON
> - Receive message alerts set to ON
> - Not paired with iPhone
> - 6th watch face


- same
- automatic, but mine set at 10% (not really relevant because I don't use the light anyway during my test)
- same
- mine is set to off
- notifications set to off on mine (I have an android phone and it's not supported anyway and even if it would have work I don't use notifications anyway)
- not paired with an phone, never was
- 1st watch face

I set my watch to consume as little battery as possible and unfortunately it drains a lot... 
Right now 22 hours have passed and 11% battery went down... so it's the same as before... exactly the same as it was before resetting and reflashing.

For the fun of it I will set my watch exactly as @kallet and see if something changes....


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## rdm01

WEM said:


> what's your variant? all black, stealth....


Suunto Spartan Black (stainless steel bezel)

deporteporvida.com


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## WEM

So maybe G1 is all black titanium and G2 black stainless steel... only variant coding not hardware generation


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## IronP

WEM said:


> So maybe G1 is all black titanium and G2 black stainless steel... only variant coding not hardware generation


Indeed....its exactly what I was thinking now!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edit0r

guys... I have the G2... with great battery consumption... looks like I broke your statistics... hahaha... Sorry @IronP 
I only used my for biking and the GPS performance was very good... with some GPS quirks now and then...


----------



## kallet

edit0r said:


> I am sorry but that I find hard to believe... Given on what people are posting and based on my experience...


Well, thats what my watch showed. I could have an other look tomorrow morning if it says 1% less once more.

I got a SSU Black, 1740G2.


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## IronP

kallet said:


> Well, thats what my watch showed. I could have an other look tomorrow morning if it says 1% less once more.
> 
> I got a SSU Black, 1740G2.


So...is it yours all black or just the black?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jeremy1271

rdm01 said:


> I got G2 with great GPS accuracy and "good" battery consumption (7% during 1 hour GPS activity and 2% during the night ~9 hours).
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Exactly the same here


----------



## kallet

IronP said:


> So...is it yours all black or just the black?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just the regular black one.

I have had great GPS accuracy when biking (ex. KalleT's 1:34 h Cycling Move), but a little off track (often in beginning of exercise) when walking in slow speed under trees and close to buildings. For me I have noticed that when I wait for a few minutes before starting exercise the track often is better compared to when I start exercise immediately when watch shows GPS is found.


----------



## FryeX

Hmm, only one set of HR zones possible? I do not know anyone who has same training zones for running and cycling. Is this something that is coming with the activity customization?


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## BystrousT

I have ssu black (black and stainless steel), G1 version of hardware, and big battery issue. GPS Accuracy is good, comparable with my A3P. 

Today I disconected the charger at 8:00 with 100% and take SSU for 21k race in terrain with HR belt. Now after 10hours and 1,5h of running I have 81% . GPS diference between A3P and SSU was 100m. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WEM

BystrousT said:


> I have ssu black (black and stainless steel), G1 version of hardware, and big battery issue. GPS Accuracy is good, comparable with my A3P.
> 
> Today I disconected the charger at 8:00 with 100% and take SSU for 21k race in terrain with HR belt. Now after 10hours and 1,5h of running I have 81% . GPS diference between A3P and SSU was 100m.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you use best gps accuracy then only the training drains battery ~10% (6-7% per hour). If you play aroud a little bit, synch with mobile and wear the watch the rest of the time... I would say it is little bit more then normal. no big issue...


----------



## WEM

a theory:
suunto stated 15 days of battery life in time mode. (half then ambits)
100%/15days/24h=0.27% consumption per hour. this would mean ~3% in 10h. nearly same than observed...

watch has no sleep mode?


----------



## BystrousT

WEM said:


> a theory:
> suunto stated 15 days of battery life in time mode. (half then ambits)
> 100%/15days/24h=0.27% consumption per hour. this would mean ~3% in 10h. nearly same than observed...
> 
> watch has no sleep mode?


I wore them all day, from 8:00 to 22:00, include 21k race (1,5h), notifiacion on, discover of, light set on toggle mode - 1x light on and battery is on 79% now. 21% drain per 14 hours is too much for my ideas and expectations about SSU. The new more more expensive watches have worse battery life than A3S.. I m really look forward for firmware update (if my nerves will not break), if it not help, I will send them..


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

PTBC said:


> After 48 hours I was at 50% with everyday usages (maybe slightly higher usage than normal as it's new so trying out stuff) which includes 30 mins walking with GPS, 40 mins trail run with GPS and 40 mins pool swim. The first 2 nights it fell 3% overnight, this morning it was only down to 49% in the morning.
> 
> For the pool swim it appears to have deducted 100 metres off the total at the end, not sure what that is about and I wasn't counting laps so not sure if it's correct. Also the laps shown on the device and the log book are interval laps, so it only autolaps resets when you stop, a turn and push off is recorded as part of the same lap (on movescount you can see each length though)


Did you report the indoor swim distance errors to suunto? I have a very similar issue and have reported many examples. After finishing my swim the total distance on the watch is incorrect but if I look at the screen with the lap intervals all of my laps are shown correctly. When I upload to movescount the total on movescount is always less and the way the laps are shown on movescount is also incorrect. When I transfer the data to strava the distance of my total swim is usually 3 times as far.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

WEM said:


> a theory:
> suunto stated 15 days of battery life in time mode. (half then ambits)
> 100%/15days/24h=0.27% consumption per hour. this would mean ~3% in 10h. nearly same than observed...
> 
> watch has no sleep mode?


The display on my watch shuts off when its left on the counter for a while.


----------



## petem99

Phoenixatdawn said:


> The display on my watch shuts off when its left on the counter for a while.


Mine too. It's not all that obvious though, as the motion sensor turns the screen back on as soon as the watch is moved, so if you pick it up then look at it the screen will always be on which may be why some people haven't noticed that it does shut off. If you look at it before you pick it up though, the screen should be blank. Might be worth those with bad battery life checking to make sure the screen actually does go blank when it's left unmoved for a while - maybe that doesn't happen on some watches.

I don't know what else it it shuts off internally, if anything, when the screen goes blank. You'd hope it might be reducing power usage in any other way that makes sense.

BTW, someone mentioned watch faces in relation to differences in battery life between watches. My watch seems to do better on battery life than some others, and it's always on the digital watch face with the date at the top so there is nothing moving on the display except when the minute/hour/date changes. i have no idea whether that makes any difference to battery usage, but it's not impossible, especially if there is a bug in the update routines for some of the other watch faces that wastes power. Clutching at straws, but...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

BystrousT said:


> I have ssu black (black and stainless steel), G1 version of hardware


So it sounds like G1 is not for Titanium. I would be curious to learn what that hardware code refers to then. My specs:

* Spartan Ultra Titanium All Black (HR bundle)
* Software: 1.1.24
* Hardware: 1740G1
* GPS: 5.7.9-P1_5.7.9
* Touch: 2.0.27
* Bluetooth: 2.3.15

I can't say my battery consumption is not what I was expecting, just from what I have seen in others watches/brands recently. Some of the battery consumption rates described here don't strike me as a problem to be honest. I certainly don't feel like it has been a factor at all for me. I charge it every night from a wall charger (output: 5 V, 1 A maximum current). For those who are trying out different setups for checking battery consumption, I will point out that under settings, you can put the Spartan Ultra in airplane mode. That should take quite a bit of variables out of the equation when comparing your notes. Good luck!

If anyone out there is using a foot pod please give me a shout. I would like to compare notes for different sport modes.

If a new software is released this coming week, I would suppose beta-testers are giving it a go right now. It sounds like it will be focused on bug fixing and general usability improvements. But I would be curios to learn (sneak-peak  whether GPS, touch, or bluetooth get software version updates as well. Or if it is just main software version.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

LONG_HAUL said:


> So it sounds like G1 is not for Titanium. I would be curious to learn what that hardware code refers to then. My specs:
> 
> * Spartan Ultra Titanium (HR bundle)
> * Software: 1.1.24
> * Hardware: 1740G1
> * GPS: 5.7.9-P1_5.7.9
> * Touch: 2.0.27
> * Bluetooth: 2.3.15
> 
> I can't say my battery consumption is not what I was expecting, just from what I have seen in others watches/brands recently. Some of the battery consumption rates described here don't strike me as a problem to be honest. I certainly don't feel like it has been a factor at all for me. I charge it every night from a wall charger (output: 5 V, 1 A maximum current). For those who are trying out different setups for checking battery consumption, I will point out that under settings, you can put the Spartan Ultra in airplane mode. That should take quite a bit of variables out of the equation when comparing your notes. Good luck!
> 
> If anyone out there is using a foot pod please give me a shout. I would like to compare notes for different sport modes.
> 
> If a new software is released this coming week, I would suppose beta-testers are giving it a go right now. It sounds like it will be focused on bug fixing and general usability improvements. But I would be curios to learn (sneak-peak  whether GPS, touch, or bluetooth get software version updates as well. Or if it is just main software version.


mine is black titanium with the G1


----------



## Jaka83

Mine is Titanium All Black G1 ... a friend's Titanium Stealth is G1 too.

Did a 5 hour exercise (2x half hour and 1x 4 hour) yesterday. Charged the watch during the night, so it was at 100% in the morning ... before starting the exercise three hours after waking up, the watch was at 98% ... did all the exercises with the HR belt paired, backlight to toggle, so it was never on, discovery off, GPS accuracy at BEST, navigation on. At the end the battery was at 64% ... so that was three hours of standby (drained 2%) and 5 hours of exercise (drained 34%).

Taking into account that the battery has not been cycled even once and that the software update will probably make a difference too, the battery performed quite well. I'll do another short hike today - leaving just now.















SSU data
Jaka_Jese's 4:04 h Hiking Move

Ambit1 data
Jaka_Jese's 4:06 h Trekking Move


----------



## WEM

Phoenixatdawn said:


> The display on my watch shuts off when its left on the counter for a while.


My display goes off too, that's not the point...

The clue is that the sleep battery consumption is nearly the same as the theoretical consumption in time mode. 0.3% in 1h.


----------



## rdm01

petem99 said:


> Mine too. It's not all that obvious though, as the motion sensor turns the screen back on as soon as the watch is moved, so if you pick it up then look at it the screen will always be on which may be why some people haven't noticed that it does shut off. If you look at it before you pick it up though, the screen should be blank. Might be worth those with bad battery life checking to make sure the screen actually does go blank when it's left unmoved for a while - maybe that doesn't happen on some watches.
> 
> I don't know what else it it shuts off internally, if anything, when the screen goes blank. You'd hope it might be reducing power usage in any other way that makes sense.
> 
> BTW, someone mentioned watch faces in relation to differences in battery life between watches. My watch seems to do better on battery life than some others, and it's always on the digital watch face with the date at the top so there is nothing moving on the display except when the minute/hour/date changes. i have no idea whether that makes any difference to battery usage, but it's not impossible, especially if there is a bug in the update routines for some of the other watch faces that wastes power. Clutching at straws, but...


I also using the digital watchface with nothing in the upper when in low battery mode. Last night it lasts only 1% (from 74% to 73%) during 9 hours (from 22:06 to 7:04). It was resting over my desk.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## edit0r

WEM said:


> My display goes off too, that's not the point...
> 
> The clue is that the sleep battery consumption is nearly the same as the theoretical consumption in time mode. 0.3% in 1h.


From my first post I told everyone that the screen was off... meaning... really off 
That's why with this extra power saving feature i was expecting a way better battery life... but surprise, surprise...

Anyway... as promised I replicated @kallet watch settings and after 10 hours my battery went down 5% ... so NO difference from what I used to have....

The only logical conclusion is that my watch has a hardware problem....

No matter what are the settings for me at the end of the day with my watch idling 24h on my desk with no buttons pushed what so ever I get 12% battery drain... If I just wear it like a watch I probably get to 15-16%... That means not even 1 week of battery life when used simply as a watch.... meaning, no gps, no notifications, no HR use of any kind.... maybe light a few times a day...

I'll send my watch in for an service inspection because I don't like what is going on... One of the reasons that I am dealing with a bigger watch is for it's bigger battery meaning lots of up time...

And just to give you an idea... My Polar V800 in watch mode it lasts at least 1 month... that's what I call a great power management. I don't expect that from Suunto of course (given the bigger screen, color screen) but I can't accept 1 week either.


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## kallet

As a follow up from yesterday, now my watch has been lying on my desk for about 11 hours, and it has went from 50% to 49%.


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## jeremy1271

Just came back from a 18K run with HRM, during 1h44mn. Battery was 99% when I started, arrived at 87%

Hardware G2

I have to say the GPS track was spot on.


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## ixman

I have the titanium all black and the hardware serial is G1.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL

How do I get FIT files straight from the watch on my own computer? I will not have internet for some time and cannot do the Movescount single file downloads. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jaka83

Back from the short hike...

This is what I would call tough GPS conditions - switchbacks, pine/spruce/larch trees and high surrounding mountains with partly cloudy sky. The watch did OK-ish. There were a couple of points where I stopped to take my larger camera out for pictures and the watch was hunting a bit, but overall for the conditions it was OK. Battery consumption was roughly the same as yesterday ... projected battery life for me is around 15 hours in exercise mode.

Jaka_Jese's 3:40 h Hiking Move


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## oli70

Hi

I am using now the Ultra all black for some days and i am quite happy with it (great Display, good Performance -> computing power). the gps Performance is comparable with my ambit3 Peak. today i went for a short hike, 5 km. when i synched afterwards the watch with movescount, i saw that only 500m of Position data was recorded, so the track Ends somehow after that. the other data like temperature, altitude, time etc. was recorded till i stopt this move. when i was running for around 45 min. last week, everything was ok. maybe ist a Software bug related to this Special mode. maybe when i was pressing the middle button for the Options the Software got somehow distracted?

Greetings from switzerland


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## Paulchen4711

Hi folks,

I know that we all have to wait until the new firmware comes out. However, i've to tell you my today's experience with the SSU using it for the very first time within a competition. To remind everybody - especially people from Suunto. I bought a SSU all black titanium HR for 799 Euro (!!!). 

Today I participated in a HM - competition, and yes - I had very ambitious targets. I was standing at the starting line, having my SSU ready. The GPS logo was filled, same as my HR logo. I just needed to press start at the starting line. The starting shot came and I pressed the starting button. And - what happened??? Nothing. The watch said "Starting the exercise..." or "waiting to start the exercise" or something like that (of course it was in german). I ran 400 m, 800 m - and nothing happened. I was so p**** off, wearing a useless 800 Euro device. After 1,5 km I decided to restart the watch (pressing one of the buttons more than 12 seconds). Everybody who is doing competitions can imagine how this feels if you really have to concentrate on the f**** watch instead of concentrating on your run. After the restart my beloved device was unable to find a satellite - as I was apparently moving a bit to fast. So after another 1,5 km I decided to start the exercise without gps functionality to at least see my current heart-frequency. With this I finished the HM. Thanks to Suunto without any precise information in the course of the competition. 

People from Suunto - thank you very much. 

BR Paulchen


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## Jaka83

A couple of complaints/observations I have (not that anyone cares):
- On my laptop when I try to sync my watch, the Suuntolink says the device malfunctioned and needs to be restarted ... sometimes it's enough to just hold the top button for 12 seconds and then it restarts and syncs, one time I had to restart the computer too
- The displays during exercise are a bit limited (yes, I know Suunto will fix this soon). For example, the cycling mode is full of information, the hiking/trekking mode just has five parameters which don't even include the heart rate
- When I lock the buttons/touch screen, I want to be able to cycle the screens like on the Ambit - so the start/stop/pause/lap buttons don't work, but you can cycle the display modes and check navigation without unlocking the watch
- Battery percentage during exercise is not displayed anywhere
- I like the option of double tapping on the display during exercise mode to show the current time overlayed , but again this only works when the device is unlocked

This is my list so far, plus the usual (alarms, barograph, etc.) and other bug fixes. We will see if the update comes tomorrow, what will be included


----------



## rdm01

Jaka83 said:


> A couple of complaints/observations I have (not that anyone cares):
> - When I lock the buttons/touch screen, I want to be able to cycle the screens like on the Ambit - so the start/stop/pause/lap buttons don't work, but you can cycle the display modes and check navigation without unlocking the watch
> - I like the option of double tapping on the display during exercise mode to show the current time overlayed , but again this only works when the device is unlocked


Sorry but I'm not agree with your idea of lock only buttons behaviour. For example I use to lock the SSU during an activity just to clean the screen of fingerprints. BTW wearing the SSU (and most of the watches) on the right hand avoid 99% of unwanted button pressed.


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## WEM

edit0r said:


> From my first post I told everyone that the screen was off... meaning... really off
> That's why with this extra power saving feature i was expecting a way better battery life... but surprise, surprise...
> 
> Anyway... as promised I replicated @kallet watch settings and after 10 hours my battery went down 5% ... so NO difference from what I used to have....
> 
> The only logical conclusion is that my watch has a hardware problem....
> 
> No matter what are the settings for me at the end of the day with my watch idling 24h on my desk with no buttons pushed what so ever I get 12% battery drain... If I just wear it like a watch I probably get to 15-16%... That means not even 1 week of battery life when used simply as a watch.... meaning, no gps, no notifications, no HR use of any kind.... maybe light a few times a day...
> 
> I'll send my watch in for an service inspection because I don't like what is going on... One of the reasons that I am dealing with a bigger watch is for it's bigger battery meaning lots of up time...
> 
> And just to give you an idea... My Polar V800 in watch mode it lasts at least 1 month... that's what I call a great power management. I don't expect that from Suunto of course (given the bigger screen, color screen) but I can't accept 1 week either.


Just curious what's the end of this story. My watch consumes nearly the same in "sleep" then yours...

Was out mountaineering today: got ~6.5% consumption per hour. 98% -> 54% in 6h and 49min...


----------



## Jaka83

rdm01 said:


> Sorry but I'm not agree with your idea of lock only buttons behaviour. For example I use to lock the SSU during an activity just to clean the screen of fingerprints. BTW wearing the SSU (and most of the watches) on the right hand avoid 99% of unwanted button pressed.


I just want the lock function to act as it did on the Ambit series, which right now it doesn't. Newsflash, not everybody wears their watch on their hand all the time, sometimes I strap it to the strap on my backpack, especially during winter hiking. If you don't lock your watch during exercise, it doesn't really bother you either way.


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## johan6504

After today's run I am giving up. My watch is going back to Suunto in Finland. This can be right, it has to be faulty som way. I haven't had a single correct GPS track since I got it. Extremely disappointed ;-(


----------



## petem99

Jaka83 said:


> I just want the lock function to act as it did on the Ambit series, which right now it doesn't. Newsflash, not everybody wears their watch on their hand all the time, sometimes I strap it to the strap on my backpack, especially during winter hiking. If you don't lock your watch during exercise, it doesn't really bother you either way.


Exactly. My watch is actually on the handlebar when I'm on the mountain bike, but the GPS is mounted quite close by and I want to be sure I don't change anything on the watch by mistake while doing something to the GPS, plus there is always the chance of a branch catching the buttons on many of the overgrown trails I ride, so I do want to be able to lock the buttons from doing anything else apart from switching between screens like you can on the Ambit and various other watches I've had. I'd certainly hope that's on the list of things to do for Suunto.

I don't need to see the current time because my GPS has that set to be always visible, but of course I can see where it would be useful if you don't have it in view anywhere else, so maybe there ought to be an option when you lock the buttons as to whether you still want the double-tap on the screen to show the current time, or for all screen actions to be ignored.

I'd also like to be able to see the battery state during an activity - maybe that will be one of the things you can select when they finish the option to control what fields are shown (which can't come soon enough for me as I'm currently riding with the SSU and Fenix 3 and two HR belts, just so I can see all the info I want which the SSU currently doesn't show on MTB rides).

And since the discussion on battery usage is still going on, mine is a Titanium All Black (G2) and it was fully charged last night at midnight (though I notice the watch tends to show 99% very quickly after coming off charge), when I started a mountain bike ride today (on "Best" GPS mode) at 12:00 it was at 96%, and when I finished 4 hours and 40 minutes later it was at 68%. So the activity used 28% over 4:40 which would give something like 16.7 hours from fully charged to flat, but that's assuming the battery percentage display is linear which it may not be. Still, that's not too far off what Suunto claim (18 hours in "Best" mode).

In time mode, from midnight it was idle till I got up then on my wrist till 12:00, and in that 12 hours it used 3% (as I said, it drops very quickly to 99% when it comes off charge, which I'd guess is just a peculiarity of the measuring system, so it actually dropped from 99% to 96% over the 12 hours). That equates to over 16 days in time mode, which again is pretty close to what Suunto claim (15 days).

So the battery life I'm seeing looks right, as it does for some other people too, which means that if some people are getting much worse battery life than that without having any extra loads on it (like notifications and discovery which are turned off on mine), then I would suspect those watches could have a fault and may need to be repaired/replaced. Maybe there was a bad batch of SSU?


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## LONG_HAUL

oli70 said:


> maybe when i was pressing the middle button for the Options the Software got somehow distracted?


I had a similar experience during a pool swim. In my case the HR looked like it was cut short toward the end of the workout. Looking at it more carefully, I realized the HR data had actually been "compressed" in time. It was easy to see that because all the intervals in that pool swim workout are so distinct and cover the entire workout time. I think I pressed the bottom button or held the middle button around the time the HR "ended". But I can't remember for certain. Just really odd. Since then I have been making a conscious effort to minimize the use of any buttons during pool swimming workouts (at least until the next software update). What sport mode were you using?


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## edit0r

johan6504 said:


> After today's run I am giving up. My watch is going back to Suunto in Finland. This can be right, it has to be faulty som way. I haven't had a single correct GPS track since I got it. Extremely disappointed ;-(


It's unfortunate but things do break down.... 
I am not happy about my battery issue also but if Suunto service center is great and solves my problem fast (I am hoping for a replacement not a refurbished) I will be fine 
My advice is, send it in for repairs... there is definitely a problem with your watch.1


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## oli70

LONG_HAUL said:


> I had a similar experience during a pool swim. In my case the HR looked like it was cut short toward the end of the workout. Looking at it more carefully, I realized the HR data had actually been "compressed" in time. It was easy to see that because all the intervals in that pool swim workout are so distinct and cover the entire workout time. I think I pressed the bottom button or held the middle button around the time the HR "ended". But I can't remember for certain. Just really odd. Since then I have been making a conscious effort to minimize the use of any buttons during pool swimming workouts (at least until the next software update). What sport mode were you using?


I was using the basic hiking mode. and as i wrote before the watch somehow stopped to record data for position or messed it up, so the data at the end was not valid to show the whole track - strange.


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## oli70

LONG_HAUL said:


> I had a similar experience during a pool swim. In my case the HR looked like it was cut short toward the end of the workout. Looking at it more carefully, I realized the HR data had actually been "compressed" in time. It was easy to see that because all the intervals in that pool swim workout are so distinct and cover the entire workout time. I think I pressed the bottom button or held the middle button around the time the HR "ended". But I can't remember for certain. Just really odd. Since then I have been making a conscious effort to minimize the use of any buttons during pool swimming workouts (at least until the next software update). What sport mode were you using?


I was using hiking basic mode. as i wrote the problem was, that the watch stopped to save the data for my position or messed it somehow up and the data for the track was not complete. the watch itself didnt showed something strange during that move, so i couldnt realise that something went wrong.


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## Phoenixatdawn

For the swimmers, does your summary page at the end of a swim show you your swolf value? Mine shows dashes for the value even though I get the value in movescount for the swim.

Also does anyone know what the icon below the swolf icon mean? I am unable to find it on the suunto website or spartan literate.

Thanks


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## LONG_HAUL

Phoenixatdawn said:


> For the swimmers, does your summary page at the end of a swim show you your swolf value?


No, my summary page does not show a proper average swolf.



Phoenixatdawn said:


> Also does anyone know what the icon below the swolf icon mean?


Average stroke rate. Also, always dashes.


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## Phoenixatdawn

LONG_HAUL said:


> No, my summary page does not show a proper average swolf.
> 
> Average stroke rate. Also, always dashes.


Thank you, do you know if there is a link that shows the meaning for all of the icons?


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## BobMiles

Hey guys, 

I've been selected to participate in a product test, which means I'll get the spartan for free in the coming week. 
I've been following this thread for some time now but I wonder if there's new information on the update suunto wants to provide? I'm on travel right now so forgive me if I've missed a post! 
I'll be testing the Spartan using my ambit 3 Peak as reference. However I'd wait for the update if it is in sight. 
From what I read here, I share the disappointment, but there is potential and hope for the spartan! 

All the best, 

Rob


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## LONG_HAUL

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Thank you, do you know if there is a link that shows the meaning for all of the icons?


There is not a whole lot of info documented about the Spartan online. I can't keep track of everything I learn here, or figure on my own, or read somewhere. And we are lucky we are early adopters and are going through the functionality sort of piece-meal, as it is released. I think those who purchase this watch February/March next year may feel overwhelmed at first (but then again, that's sort of common with sports' watches and accompanying online services these days).


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## LONG_HAUL

BobMiles said:


> I'll be testing the Spartan using my ambit 3 Peak as reference. However I'd wait for the update if it is in sight.


Rob, if you are going to be testing it, then I sure hope YOU will be getting the updates first, putting them through the motions, to then tell US if we should update or not.  Not the other way around... You funny.


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## BobMiles

I'm not testing for suunto, but for a sport equipment shop. Sure I'll update once it'll be available for me and then share my experiences!


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## WEM

petem99 said:


> And since the discussion on battery usage is still going on, mine is a Titanium All Black (G2) and it was fully charged last night at midnight (though I notice the watch tends to show 99% very quickly after coming off charge), when I started a mountain bike ride today (on "Best" GPS mode) at 12:00 it was at 96%, and when I finished 4 hours and 40 minutes later it was at 68%. So the activity used 28% over 4:40 which would give something like 16.7 hours from fully charged to flat, but that's assuming the battery percentage display is linear which it may not be. Still, that's not too far off what Suunto claim (18 hours in "Best" mode).
> 
> In time mode, from midnight it was idle till I got up then on my wrist till 12:00, and in that 12 hours it used 3% (as I said, it drops very quickly to 99% when it comes off charge, which I'd guess is just a peculiarity of the measuring system, so it actually dropped from 99% to 96% over the 12 hours). That equates to over 16 days in time mode, which again is pretty close to what Suunto claim (15 days).


you are in the same range than me (I have g1 hw). Abount 0.3% per hour in idle...
but you crashed our statistic. till yet we was thinking the g2 generation doesn't have this issue...


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## oli70

Since yesterday, when i had this strange move, which was not complete, my watch draines much more battery. before it was in a normal range, about 2-3% the night. tonight the battery went down from 100% to 89% in 7 hours! i have a titanium all black, hw g01. maybe the battery drain has to do with the strange behavior from yesterday. might be, that a process was not terminated and still somehow active? i will try now several things: reset, start and stop move, force feedback. i am almost sure, that this problem is software related.


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## oli70

oli70 said:


> Since yesterday, when i had this strange move, which was not complete, my watch draines much more battery. before it was in a normal range, about 2-3% the night. tonight the battery went down from 100% to 89% in 7 hours! i have a titanium all black, hw g01. maybe the battery drain has to do with the strange behavior from yesterday. might be, that a process was not terminated and still somehow active? i will try now several things: reset, start and stop move, force feedback. i am almost sure, that this problem is software related.


sorry i meant to force firmware update, not force feedback...


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## Hecke

edit0r said:


> For me, my wrist size it's great. The wrist band is great, very smooth texture ,nice to the touch, very comfortable.
> The watch is a tiny little bit too thick for my liking but I always prefer a bigger battery so I have to deal with the size.
> The watch design is great... I love it a lot..
> It feel very light also...


What he said. Exactly.
I wear it all day at the moment, until the new factor wears a bit off ;-)


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## BobMiles

Have you guys with the missing data issue had your iPhone with you during the exercise? I read in another review that this issue could occur when the watch syncs during an exercise.


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## oli70

BobMiles said:


> Have you guys with the missing data issue had your iPhone with you during the exercise? I read in another review that this issue could occur when the watch syncs during an exercise.


No, i have an android phone, so pairing with watch not yet possible.


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## LONG_HAUL

BobMiles said:


> I'm not testing for suunto, but for a sport equipment shop. Sure I'll update once it'll be available for me and then share my experiences!


Ah! Ok. The software will be getting functionality added for a period of time. So any review right now might miss important features that will be available down the line. If your review is due in the next couple of weeks, and your choices are not upgrading the software or upgrading it once, then you may still end up with a short, hardware focused review, as we have seen already. Your equipment store wasn't happy with those reviews?


----------



## Simurgh

Anyone with the Sport version yet?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

BobMiles said:


> Have you guys with the missing data issue had your iPhone with you during the exercise? I read in another review that this issue could occur when the watch syncs during an exercise.


Mine was during a pool swim and I don't take my phone to the pool. Plus, how would the piece of the move that is sync'ed after the workout is indeed ended get "merged" with what was already sync'ed? We don't get two moves, just one. And most of the data fields are fully recorded.


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## BobMiles

LONG_HAUL said:


> Ah! Ok. The software will be getting functionality added for a period of time. So any review right now might miss important features that will be available down the line. If your review is due in the next couple of weeks, and your choices are not upgrading the software or upgrading it once, then you may still end up with a short, hardware focused review, as we have seen already. Your equipment store wasn't happy with those reviews?


Yeah that was why I asked. The review is due on 22nd, so maybe suunto will provide a first update beforehand. Otherwise I can't help but reviewing what I got...

Gesendet von meinem HUAWEI GRA-L09 mit Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL

oli70 said:


> sorry i meant to force firmware update, not force feedback...


Before you force update, you may want to also try turning airplane mode on for a while, just in case that helps shutting down processes associated with sensor connectivity. I know GPS does not turn off with airplane mode on, as I have recorded tracks while airplane mode was on. But maybe all the bluetooth stuff is shutdown for you. And you could start/end an indoor sport mode (like pool swimming) to see if GPS is reset/turned off.


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## oli70

LONG_HAUL said:


> Before you force update, you may want to also try turning airplane mode on for a while, just in case that helps shutting down processes associated with sensor connectivity. I know GPS does not turn off with airplane mode on, as I have recorded tracks while airplane mode was on. But maybe all the bluetooth stuff is shutdown for you. And you could start/end an indoor sport mode (like pool swimming) to see if GPS is reset/turned off.


Did a reset by pressing upper buuton for 12 sec. afterwards i started and stopped move. now battery consumption is in normal range again.maybe only the reset would ve help. the idea with airplanemode could maybe also help....


----------



## petem99

WEM said:


> you are in the same range than me (I have g1 hw). Abount 0.3% per hour in idle...
> but you crashed our statistic. till yet we was thinking the g2 generation doesn't have this issue...


I'm not sure what issue you mean? My battery usage rate was 3% for 12 hours where for about half of that time the watch was idle and the other half it was on my wrist while I was moving around the house. So that's about 6% usage per day, which would be over 16 days of battery life and that's more than Suunto claim (15 days). I'd guess long term usage would be a bit more than 6% per day as it would only be idle for something like a third of the time over a full 24 hour period rather than half, but I'd guess that's still going to give pretty much the expected 15 days of battery life.


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## LONG_HAUL

BobMiles said:


> Yeah that was why I asked. The review is due on 22nd, so maybe suunto will provide a first update beforehand. Otherwise I can't help but reviewing what I got...


Though spot. I think the place to check on update news is here: http://www.suunto.com/en-US/Worlds/Training-World/Software-updates/Spartan-gets-stronger/

It sounds like you will get one update to fix bugs and improve usability before your deadline, but that might be all. Even if the second update is out before your deadline, you may get very limited time playing with it. You may want to start writing already, even before you get the watch... 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL

oli70 said:


> now battery consumption is in normal range again.


Nice. Could you please summarize in your experience what "normal range" is? And what "excessive consumption" is?


----------



## oli70

LONG_HAUL said:


> Nice. Could you please summarize in your experience what "normal range" is? And what "excessive consumption" is?


Normal or acceptable range in watch mode: 2% in 8 hours
Excessive consumption in watch mode (last night, watch not carried): 10% in 7 hours

Sport mode (running) took around 4% for 45 min. of running.


----------



## WEM

petem99 said:


> I'm not sure what issue you mean? My battery usage rate was 3% for 12 hours where for about half of that time the watch was idle and the other half it was on my wrist while I was moving around the house. So that's about 6% usage per day, which would be over 16 days of battery life and that's more than Suunto claim (15 days). I'd guess long term usage would be a bit more than 6% per day as it would only be idle for something like a third of the time over a full 24 hour period rather than half, but I'd guess that's still going to give pretty much the expected 15 days of battery life.


What does you watch consume when laid asleep on desk? I misunderstood you, I was thinking the 3% not on whrist....

My experience is: about 0,3% / hour in watch/time mode (but also in asleep on desk - last night from 21:00 to 07:00 ~3% drain). 0,3 * 24 = 7,2% in a day. This is about 14 days of usage in time mode....
I would expect, that the watch consumes less in sleep mode than in time mode.


----------



## petem99

WEM said:


> What does you watch consume when laid asleep on desk? I misunderstood you, I was thinking the 3% not on whrist....
> 
> My experience is: about 0,3% / hour in watch/time mode (but also in asleep on desk - last night from 21:00 to 07:00 ~3% drain). 0,3 * 24 = 7,2% in a day. This is about 14 days of usage in time mode....
> I would expect, that the watch consumes less in sleep mode than in time mode.


I don't know exactly how much mine is using for very long periods when it's completely idle. If I remember I will take off the watch this evening and leave it overnight so it has a long period idle then see how much battery it has used. At the moment I'm half way through a day of normal use so I'll check when I take it off this evening and that will tell me how much it's using in a whole day when it's on the wrist most of the time.

I understand what you mean about idle compared to being on the wrist - I would expect it to use less power when it's idle and not having to power the screen, so it does seem odd if it uses as much when it's idle as it does when it's being worn. That might be something Suunto need to fix, or at least to explain why.

But if you're getting battery usage that works out at about 14 days battery life in time mode, that's pretty close to the 15 days that Suunto claim so I expect they would say that's normal.


----------



## johan6504

edit0r said:


> It's unfortunate but things do break down....
> I am not happy about my battery issue also but if Suunto service center is great and solves my problem fast (I am hoping for a replacement not a refurbished) I will be fine
> My advice is, send it in for repairs... there is definitely a problem with your watch.1


Got feedback from Suunto support today and som interesting info...
According to Suunto we are never going to see the same GPS track performance from Spartan Ultra that we see in ambit 3, at least not in more demanding environments. This is a result of the significantly smaller gps antenna compared to Ambit 3. This is really a quite surprising statement but a very clear one... If you need really sharp GPS track, look elsewhere...


----------



## IronP

Hello,
I noticed today, that in my "training" view in the watch, the totals are completely wrong (hours and km)! It is showing much less in the watch than in movescount.
Are you guys having the same phenomena?


----------



## jeremy1271

IronP said:


> Hello,
> I noticed today, that in my "training" view in the watch, the totals are completely wrong (hours and km)! It is showing much less in the watch than in movescount.
> Are you guys having the same phenomena?


Same here, by 4,5 km out of 42


----------



## edit0r

johan6504 said:


> Got feedback from Suunto support today and som interesting info...
> According to Suunto we are never going to see the same GPS track performance from Spartan Ultra that we see in ambit 3, at least not in more demanding environments. This is a result of the significantly smaller gps antenna compared to Ambit 3. This is really a quite surprising statement but a very clear one... If you need really sharp GPS track, look elsewhere...


I can't believe that they are willing to admit that... Not that I am shocked or anything but admitting that from a company rep is a big NO NO ! Are you trying to troll us a tiny little bit?
The firmware is way too young to comment on GPS precision... We need to give it time...
I don't think the Spartan can match the precision of the Ambit 3 or Polar V800 has but if it's very very close is good enough for most of us... again... we need to give it time...

Also let's look of the bright side... as long as the Ambit 3/V800 are still selling we always have an good alternative to the Spartan when we really need best precision... also the Ambit 3/V800 is a lot cheaper these days so we can buy it as a second watch... for those who need the extra GPS precision (and battery life)


----------



## edit0r

I got my watch replaced by the store that sold it to me. 
Awesome service, awesome store, can't thank them enough... they helped me each and every time.
So I updated the watch to .24 everything went great.
My first bump is that the watch charged to 98% and got stuck there for an hour.... hmmm

Later edit : removed the charging cable (now, after 1 hour), put it back and the screen display said charging again and the battery bumped immediately to 99% and let's see if i get to 100%

Later edit 2: after 17 more minutes it got to 100%... see you tomorrow guys


----------



## zvojan

johan6504 said:


> Got feedback from Suunto support today and som interesting info...
> According to Suunto we are never going to see the same GPS track performance from Spartan Ultra that we see in ambit 3, at least not in more demanding environments. This is a result of the significantly smaller gps antenna compared to Ambit 3. This is really a quite surprising statement but a very clear one... If you need really sharp GPS track, look elsewhere...


You know what I just dont belive you.. Give us a screen shot of that answer from Suunto, not text copy/paste.

Significantly smaller gps antenna......come on v800 is half smaller than spartan and two years old and very accurate, whay cant spartan be too...


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Don't get too hung up on getting to 100%. Those LiPo aren't supposed to be overcharged (or completely discharged), so the last 1-2% are meant to only trickle charge rather than hurt the battery performance by overdoing it.

Have SSU vs. A3P tracks from 42k (plus 2300 m of ascent), half of an ultra I DNF-ed. Mountain trails of all kinds...

Definitely the biggest factor on those is what wrist I wore which watch on, followed by the SSU probably being disturbed a bit more when there are sudden turns.








https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxDRa9OJgrvDS3pmMHZOOU50Tmc/view?usp=sharing









https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxDRa9OJgrvDdm9WRE5KOF9xbEU

Don't have to tell you guys that my initial review is online, do I?

Bug fix update should be coming very soon, btw. Then the one for more features...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

oli70 said:


> Normal or acceptable range in watch mode: 2% in 8 hours
> Excessive consumption in watch mode (last night, watch not carried): 10% in 7 hours.


So in summary:



> Excessive battery consumption is anything over 1% per hour.


Any battery level, any state other than recording a move, consistently over a few hours, not just a 1-2% drop within an hour from taking it off the charger. So the watch would run out of juice in less than a week even if not used.

All agree?


----------



## anto1980

Suunto Amsterdam Application :flushed:???


----------



## rdm01

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Don't get too hung up on getting to 100%. Those LiPo aren't supposed to be overcharged (or completely discharged), so the last 1-2% are meant to only trickle charge rather than hurt the battery performance by overdoing it.
> 
> Have SSU vs. A3P tracks from 42k (plus 2300 m of ascent), half of an ultra I DNF-ed. Mountain trails of all kinds...
> 
> Definitely the biggest factor on those is what wrist I wore which watch on, followed by the SSU probably being disturbed a bit more when there are sudden turns.
> 
> View attachment 9261834
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxDRa9OJgrvDS3pmMHZOOU50Tmc/view?usp=sharing
> 
> View attachment 9261874
> 
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxDRa9OJgrvDdm9WRE5KOF9xbEU
> 
> Don't have to tell you guys that my initial review is online, do I?
> 
> Bug fix update should be coming very soon, btw. Then the one for more features...


Sorry your DNF :-( BTW why such a big difference between HR avg between SSU and A3? Did you wear two HR bands?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## edit0r

zvojan said:


> Significantly smaller gps antenna......come on v800 is half smaller than spartan and two years old and very accurate, whay cant spartan be too...


The GPS antenna from the V800 is about the same size with the one from Ambit 3... and it's BIG compared to the size of the Spartan... there is no way to incorporate that into the Spartan so they come up with an alternative bezel type.. no one have seen it yet, there are no pictures with it... Right now all we know for sure is that it is better then the Fenix 3 and it has the potential to get better, maybe close to Ambit 3 precision..... but we need to give it time.

Posted this link a long time ago... have a look to see how big is the Ambit 2 GPS antenna, the same antenna that you will find in Ambit 3 and V800


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Don't get too hung up on getting to 100%. Those LiPo aren't supposed to be overcharged (or completely discharged), so the last 1-2% are meant to only trickle charge rather than hurt the battery performance by overdoing it.
> 
> Have SSU vs. A3P tracks from 42k (plus 2300 m of ascent), half of an ultra I DNF-ed. Mountain trails of all kinds...
> 
> Definitely the biggest factor on those is what wrist I wore which watch on, followed by the SSU probably being disturbed a bit more when there are sudden turns.
> 
> View attachment 9261834
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxDRa9OJgrvDS3pmMHZOOU50Tmc/view?usp=sharing
> 
> View attachment 9261874
> 
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxDRa9OJgrvDdm9WRE5KOF9xbEU
> 
> Don't have to tell you guys that my initial review is online, do I?
> 
> Bug fix update should be coming very soon, btw. Then the one for more features...


sorry about the dnf, looks like a good effort never the less

Were you wearing two HR belts ? the hr values and calories burned are very different.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Yeah, two HR bands and something funky happened with the one connected to the SSU. Didn't show HR for much of the move, did seem to sync it at the end. I've seen similar drops with an Ambit (though not so consistently, i.e. not coming back sometimes during the move - though obviously, I was a bit distracted, too), but Suunto's also checking if a bug may be involved.

Oh, battery went down from 100% to 44% on the SSU, 50% on the A3P. Both were at "best", but Spartan Ultra (obviously) also did autolaps, which cost quite a bit of battery... Then again, navigation was running on the A3P. Anyways, both performed better than I feel I did - but at some point, my recent lack of training time (let alone verticals) had to have an effect...


----------



## edit0r

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Don't get too hung up on getting to 100%. Those LiPo aren't supposed to be overcharged (or completely discharged), so the last 1-2% are meant to only trickle charge rather than hurt the battery performance by overdoing it.


You are right... but I can't live with a watch that stops charging once it reaches 98%...


----------



## jukkaforss

Just got an email Fromond Suunto. 
They say that there will be at lease 4 updates before end of the year. 

-----
DEAR SUUNTO SPARTAN OWNER,
Thank you for recently buying a Suunto Spartan GPS watch and welcome to Suunto Movescount. 
In our continuing commitment to deliver the most robust and capable solution possible, we will be updating your Spartan in the coming months, firstly by bringing all announced functionality to the watch and to Movescount. We will deliver two updates to the Spartan solution during September, and will continue to improve it via monthly updates in October and November.

As we share the same passion for adventure and commitment to progress, we invite you to learn about the updates and to give feedback at suunto.com/spartangetsstronger. This page includes information on the latest software version and the key features associated with it.

Good luck with your training and racing!
-----


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## johan6504

edit0r said:


> I can't believe that they are willing to admit that... Not that I am shocked or anything but admitting that from a company rep is a big NO NO ! Are you trying to troll us a tiny little bit?
> The firmware is way too young to comment on GPS precision... We need to give it time...
> I don't think the Spartan can match the precision of the Ambit 3 or Polar V800 has but if it's very very close is good enough for most of us... again... we need to give it time...
> 
> Also let's look of the bright side... as long as the Ambit 3/V800 are still selling we always have an good alternative to the Spartan when we really need best precision... also the Ambit 3/V800 is a lot cheaper these days so we can buy it as a second watch... for those who need the extra GPS precision (and battery life)


I am not trolling (is that really a word) you and my translation from Swedish is correct. But I am just as surprised as you about Suunto saying this. Lets hope the result of the smaller antenna is reasonably small and that software updates will bring us better tracks soon. BTW, my watch is now on its way to Finland to be checked, yesterdays track was just too bad to be tolerable...


----------



## Paulchen4711

edit0r said:


> The GPS antenna from the V800 is about the same size with the one from Ambit 3... and it's BIG compared to the size of the Spartan... there is no way to incorporate that into the Spartan so they come up with an alternative bezel type.. no one have seen it yet, there are no pictures with it... Right now all we know for sure is that it is better then the Fenix 3 and it has the potential to get better, maybe close to Ambit 3 precision..... but we need to give it time.
> 
> Posted this link a long time ago... have a look to see how big is the Ambit 2 GPS antenna, the same antenna that you will find in Ambit 3 and V800


Why do you think that the there is no way to incorporate that antenna into SSU? The bezel of SSU is bigger than the one of V800.

BR Paulchen


----------



## Unperson

Since there seems to be quite a bit of battery discussion I did a quick check today. Put the watch on at 0730 (came from charger so it was at 100%) and checked battery at 1730. It went down 4% in those 10 hours. And I have it paired to my phone and have been receiving texts and agenda notifications on it throughout the day. Battery life seems fine to me. With all the bells and whistles on it should last me well over a week. And I do indeed think I've charged it twice since I got it (and did the initial charge), since I've had it since mid august I think that's all good. And that includes 3 ~1 hour running sessions a week and the occasional 2 hour hike. 

No clue what HW version I have, I don't see any of the marking you guys keep mentioning on the watch. Or I'm looking in the wrong place.


----------



## tinu80

Since i focus quite a lot on mountain running / ski touring i am really interested in vertical ascend rates. Now at the moment I'm not that excited about the recording of vertical ascend rates. 
First, the data doesn't seem to be displayed very accurately:







The graph is very "jumpy", and the data resolution seems quite coarse, lots of data points around 0 / 5 / 10 / 20 m per minute. Could this be a rounding issue in movescount software? Do you guys with ambit's have similar or smoother graphs?

Second, I think values in m/h instead of m/min would make much more sense. This value is very common among trailrunner/ski mountaineer.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

tinu80 said:


> Since i focus quite a lot on mountain running / ski touring i am really interested in vertical ascend rates. Now at the moment I'm not that excited about the recording of vertical ascend rates.
> First, the data doesn't seem to be displayed very accurately:
> View attachment 9263290
> 
> The graph is very "jumpy", and the data resolution seems quite coarse, lots of data points around 0 / 5 / 10 / 20 m per minute. Could this be a rounding issue in movescount software? Do you guys with ambit's have similar or smoother graphs?
> 
> Second, I think values in m/h instead of m/min would make much more sense. This value is very common among trailrunner/ski mountaineer.


It is because of issues like this (and many other day-to-day tasks) that I asked about the ability to save the FIT files from the Spartan Ultra straight into the computer. Is there a software that can locally grab the files from the Spartan and save them to my computer without internet connection?


----------



## petem99

Unperson said:


> No clue what HW version I have, I don't see any of the marking you guys keep mentioning on the watch. Or I'm looking in the wrong place.


Go here to see your firmware and hardware versions, etc:
Settings -> General -> About


----------



## ixman

I've decided to return my SSU. I'm so disappointed that Suunto has decided to follow on Garmin footsteps and compromise on the very thing that separated them from the pack: Reliability.
I really don't care that the screen is high resolution multi colour, that it can display 10 metrics at the same time. If those numbers are rubbish the watch is useless to me.
Maybe in 6 months or so I'll give it another try.
The last drop was this run I did today. When I've looked at the cadence I've almost flipped. What is that graph??!?? Rubbish.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

What sport mode did you use to record that move? Do you have a foot pod *paired*? Was the foot pod *on your shoe* while running? Did you have a GPS lock at start? The pace data looks a bit different between before/after minute 5:00. Could even say before/after the cadence issue started. Hard to tell with the stop around 5:00. Odd in any case.


----------



## Ingo

Alright, I have been following this thread for quite a while now and if some 90% of people here are returning their SSUs and/or desperately wait for new firmware updates it's probably soon time to move on for me and pull the trigger on a brand new A3 Peak Sapphire HR for less than half the price of a SSU. If the A3 is the gold standard in GPS accuracy why bother, test, & hope when it comes to the SSU? Maybe the SSU will catch up, maybe not - will it ever have a better GPS accuracy than the A3? Likely not and on the off chance it does, hey the A3 cost me only 50%! That's a very good no stress cost-performance ratio in my book.


----------



## Larry115

I pre-ordered SSU black with stainless bezel and it was G1. I had problems upgrading the initial software using my Mac computer. Suunto sent me a new replacement watch...exactly the same except this watch is G2. Has anyone figured what that means yet.


----------



## bruceames

Ingo said:


> Alright, I have been following this thread for quite a while now and if some 90% of people here are returning their SSUs and/or desperately wait for new firmware updates it's probably soon time to move on for me and pull the trigger on a brand new A3 Peak Sapphire HR for less than half the price of a SSU. If the A3 is the gold standard in GPS accuracy why bother, test, & hope when it comes to the SSU? Maybe the SSU will catch up, maybe not - will it ever have a better GPS accuracy than the A3? Likely not and on the off chance it does, hey the A3 cost me only 50%! That's a very good no stress cost-performance ratio in my book.


I already have the A3P Sapphire but it looks like I'm buying another one the way things are going with the SSU. As you say, it's half the price and so it's a bargain. Just gonna wait a few months for the promised FW updates to see what they do. But I'm in no way optimistic that the GPS accuracy will ever be on par with the "gold standard" A3P. Especially on hearing rumored remarks from a Suunto rep owning up to it. I hope at least they resolve all the other issues so that those who can accept less than the best accuracy (either because they aren't very picky or because they do their moves in a more open area, or both), will be happy with their SSU, because otherwise it shows lots of promise.


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> I already have the A3P Sapphire but it looks like I'm buying another one the way things are going with the SSU. As you say, it's half the price and so it's a bargain. Just gonna wait a few months for the promised FW updates to see what they do. But I'm in no way optimistic that the GPS accuracy will ever be on par with the "gold standard" A3P. Especially on hearing rumored remarks from a Suunto rep owning up to it. I hope at least they resolve all the other issues so that those who can accept less than the best accuracy (either because they aren't very picky or because they do their moves in a more open area, or both), will be happy with their SSU, because otherwise it shows lots of promise.


I cancelled my SSU pre-order and still very happy with my A3P. I may order another A3P as well, it is a great watch and I think better suited to MUT than the SSU, which seem catering more toward the Ironman crowd.


----------



## edit0r

Guys almost 11 hours have passed since I took my Spartan off the charger at 100%... the battery went down 7%... so 14% per day? It is a bit (2%) worse then before...
I think either all have a problem (from this batch) or is a software issue or.... I don't know.
I am kinda sad right now.... I thought I solved my problem with an exchange.. but unfortunately...


----------



## zvojan

Have you tried to change watch face (digital clock)


----------



## edit0r

zvojan said:


> Have you tried to change watch face (digital clock)


It seems that you haven't followed my writing...

Read these posts in this order for complete clarification on the matter:

1. Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 154

2. Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 155

3. Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 157


----------



## IronP

Battery consumption overnight:
Last night I decided to make a small test.
Before going to sleep, I sync my SSU all black with the movescount by using the laptop (Mac), so via cable.
Turned off the bluetooth of my iPhone and put my watch on the desk. Battery status was 95%.
Voila, 94% now in the morning. (From 23h to 7:30)
After 10min of using the watch today in the morning, it went to 93%.
Last week my watch was consuming up until 5% during the night.


----------



## BystrousT

edit0r said:


> Guys almost 11 hours have passed since I took my Spartan off the charger at 100%... the battery went down 7%... so 14% per day? It is a bit (2%) worse then before...
> I think either all have a problem (from this batch) or is a software issue or.... I don't know.
> I am kinda sad right now.... I thought I solved my problem with an exchange.. but unfortunately...


So its says to me, that I will wait for next update. If it not help, I will try exchange too.


----------



## capcav73

LONG_HAUL said:


> It is because of issues like this (and many other day-to-day tasks) that I asked about the ability to save the FIT files from the Spartan Ultra straight into the computer. Is there a software that can locally grab the files from the Spartan and save them to my computer without internet connection?


Do you mean the new suuntolink does not save locally any file like movescount did (sml files) ?
Do you mean that without internet connection, no possibility to unload moves from SSU and save them to PC or smartphone waiting for internet connection ?


----------



## edit0r

BystrousT said:


> So its says to me, that I will wait for next update. If it not help, I will try exchange too.


I don't see any other options at the moment

@Ingo made a good point that went unnoticed : Maybe the battery % is not linear. So I will try and test it overnight when the battery is at 60% (ish) and see what's the drop then.

I did write to Suunto again about the battery drain issue... hope they will investigate and not send me to the service center again...

I will ask the store to send my previous watch for investigations and keep me in the loop...


----------



## 604

Ingo said:


> Alright, I have been following this thread for quite a while now and if some 90% of people here are returning their SSUs and/or desperately wait for new firmware updates it's probably soon time to move on for me and pull the trigger on a brand new A3 Peak Sapphire HR for less than half the price of a SSU. If the A3 is the gold standard in GPS accuracy why bother, test, & hope when it comes to the SSU? Maybe the SSU will catch up, maybe not - will it ever have a better GPS accuracy than the A3? Likely not and on the off chance it does, hey the A3 cost me only 50%! That's a very good no stress cost-performance ratio in my book.


I don't think 90% of Spartan buyers are returning their watch. This thread is giving a biased view of all the people running battery life tests, trying to map out if G1 or G2 is better or worse&#8230; I'm sure there's plenty of people out there just enjoying their runs and not bothering to post here. And hey, I don't want to offend anybody, I'm crazy anal about GPS accuracy, that's how I ended up here too, but so far I must say I am satisfied with the SSU.

I am seeing the expected battery life Suunto states and gps accuracy very, very close to my A3P. There's plenty of good: the display is great, vibration alerts, auto-lap summaries, lap table view&#8230; but at the same time, if you can live without these, it's hard to justify its price compared to the mature and robust Ambit at this point. Personally my only concern is GPS on heavy foliage areas (where I haven't run too much with it yet, so I'm just getting an impression from what I see here), but I'd like to think that Suunto's engineers did their homework and made sure they got good signal strength in these situations, wether or not they're still applying the right math to the data.

Still, it's not like you want to take a leap of faith when buying a $800. This launch has been a fiasco. Terrible planning. Basic features not available at launch, delayed shipping, problems syncing on mac, no customisation of sport modes&#8230;


----------



## Ingo

On a not so serious note, I just had a sudden flash of wit: the 'real' Suunto Ultra watch is... two A3Ps! ;-)

No need to worry about battery life and consumption anymore, can even afford 1s GPS accuracy in most 100 milers. Just stuff a spare A3P into your drop bag and you're set. No need to even carry a USB power bank! Later just stitch the files together.


----------



## ixman

LONG_HAUL said:


> What sport mode did you use to record that move? Do you have a foot pod *paired*? Was the foot pod *on your shoe* while running? Did you have a GPS lock at start? The pace data looks a bit different between before/after minute 5:00. Could even say before/after the cadence issue started. Hard to tell with the stop around 5:00. Odd in any case.


GPS locked just fine from the start. Foot pod paired fine; on my foot as usual. Cadence was fine for the first 5 minutes. But then it just went crazy. At one point while running I was looking at the watch and the pace/cadence were spiking like crazy even though I was running at the same speed. No trees, a bit cloudy. Very good running conditions.
I've had enough with this pre alpha product


----------



## raducanmihai

The G1 vs G2 and I managed to get a good unit debate remind me of some past times from my childhood. I live in Romania and our national car (Dacia) was copied after Renault. When you bought a Dacia it was a lottery. You might get lucky and get a good running car or you might get a lemmon. It's very similar to present times: some guys were lucky and got good SSU units (GPS, battery etc) and some got lemmons. 

It's like nothing's changed. However, it did. The big difference is that my story is 25 yrs old during a Communism regime


----------



## Hecke

Re: Cadence
I also found that the cadence data of the SSU is buggy, see e.g. 







There is some systematic variation in the data that is definitely not in my running, but only in the watch.
When I did runs with my SSU and the Ambit2S together, the Ambit did not show this oscillation...


----------



## Teriemer

ixman said:


> I've decided to return my SSU. I'm so disappointed that Suunto has decided to follow on Garmin footsteps...


Well in fact the two latest models, that is 735xt or F3HR actually works very well. It seems to me Garmin learned their lesson with these watches. In addition, it seems to me that Suunto just beat Garmin in that process. I don't recall any Garmin with so many issues at launch. Don't get me wrong, I'm an old Suunto guy who had all their models. But it very much seems to me Suunto gave up on their one and only parameter they could differentiate them one; that is accuracy and reliability. It makes sad reading through all the issues here. I hope Suunto gets this fixed. But for now I'm gonna stick to my Garmins as they in fact do work very good.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Teriemer said:


> Well in fact the two latest models, that is 735xt or F3HR actually works very well.


Maybe you enjoy chatting about dog training apps while issues on the core functionality are not addressed. And you enjoy that so much that you forgot the hundreds and hundreds of posts about serious issues with those two watches (and all their watches released in the past 3-4 years).


----------



## dontango

ixman said:


> I've decided to return my SSU. I'm so disappointed that Suunto has decided to follow on Garmin footsteps and compromise on the very thing that separated them from the pack: Reliability.
> I really don't care that the screen is high resolution multi colour, that it can display 10 metrics at the same time. If those numbers are rubbish the watch is useless to me.
> Maybe in 6 months or so I'll give it another try.
> The last drop was this run I did today. When I've looked at the cadence I've almost flipped. What is that graph??!?? Rubbish.


guys! i mean, i'm also not the biggest fan of suunto releasing such a "mature" firmware...
but they have been transparent from the beginning, that it is nowhere from perfect also giving insight into the future roadmap.

also i need to point out that the situation was similar with every ambit so far! 
every newly introduced model was weaker, less accurate and buggier than the latest revision of its predecessor.

being an early adopter becomes more frustrating as technology becomes more complicated. that is true for mobile phones, cars or smart watches like the spartan.
so for me the bottom line is: if i can't wait a couple of months & need to sport the latest gadget, then there is probably the chance that i have to life with children's diseases until there is treatment.

all of us, don't want Suunto to become garmin when it comes to reliability and accuracy, but demand senseless, funky features that no-one really needs. this does not make their life easier. the same is true with their dive-computers.

i expect the spartan to become a superior device compared to the A3P (with gps accuracy being on par with it). i even think they can get it done by the end of this year, which would be surprise.

for today - it's already a more mature device than my F2 and F3 ever were.


----------



## tinu80

Hecke said:


> Re: Cadence
> I also found that the cadence data of the SSU is buggy, see e.g.
> View attachment 9267826
> 
> There is some systematic variation in the data that is definitely not in my running, but only in the watch.
> When I did runs with my SSU and the Ambit2S together, the Ambit did not show this oscillation...


Hecke,
That's very similar to the feeling I have with vertical ascend data. I never had this huge variation of vertical speed in my actual runs. Now as you mention it, it seems there is some kind of oscillation too?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

ixman said:


> GPS locked just fine from the start. Foot pod paired fine; on my foot as usual. Cadence was fine for the first 5 minutes. But then it just went crazy. At one point while running I was looking at the watch and the pace/cadence were spiking like crazy even though I was running at the same speed. No trees, a bit cloudy. Very good running conditions.
> I've had enough with this pre alpha product


Low battery on foot pod? The cadence data actually looks like coming from the watch at first (because of the little dimples typical of internal accelerometer data). Then maybe the foot pod started sending garbled data and the watch didn't parse all that very well? Notice how the noise gets progressively worse for a long time (with a portion that is not totally noisy toward the end). What foot pod were you using (brand and model)? How did you pair it? Did you pair it before the software update and never repaired it? I'm trying to figure out my foot pod too (Adidas speed_cell).


----------



## Hecke

tinu80 said:


> it seems there is some kind of oscillation too?


Yes, oscillation and a very coarse quantization. Looks like every second value is alternatingly too high or too low. 
No idea what they are doing to achieve this. 
Of course there needs to be some filtering of the raw sensor data on the watch to make sense of the data and smoothen it. 
When I look at the GPS glitches I got under dense foliage, it seems the watch will extrapolate the last reliable point with the help of cadence, compass whatever. But it does not seem to be able to correct the extrapolated points once there is a good fix, but will simply pull the current location smoothly back to the actual position. See the image, run was clockwise, and in the upper middle the red track of the SSU gets direction confused and draws a skewed version of the real one. Let's hope the firmware updates will address the watches postprocessing of data.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

dontango said:


> for today - it's already a more mature device than my F2 and F3 ever were.


Just to pile up, without getting too technical or condescending, just using the triathlon sport mode as example, the way Suunto has the transitions worked out while still allowing for laps to be introduced, all that on just three mechanical buttons, and providing superb visual feedback of how much longer you need to hold the button to trigger a transition, that solution right there is simply genius. That is something that has been talked about to great lengths before, and there has never been such an elegant solution like the one on the Spartan.


----------



## petem99

Hecke said:


> When I look at the GPS glitches I got under dense foliage, it seems the watch will extrapolate the last reliable point with the help of cadence, compass whatever. But it does not seem to be able to correct the extrapolated points once there is a good fix, but will simply pull the current location smoothly back to the actual position. See the image, run was clockwise, and in the upper middle the red track of the SSU gets direction confused and draws a skewed version of the real one. Let's hope the firmware updates will address the watches postprocessing of data.


Hard to be sure, but as you said it looks like the watch lost GPS fixes and relied on the accelerometer/compass to know which way you were going for a while (and got that wrong), then got the GPS signal back and corrected itself almost back onto the right track, then lost the signal again. Do you know whether your compass has the declination set correctly? It is something that we know can get screwed up when you sync, even if it was set right at one time, so it might be worth checking that the declination is right both in Movescount and on the watch itself, then recalibrating the compass and making sure it gives you accurate headings.

Of course, even if the compass is out and that's why it went so far off track, that doesn't explain why the GPS signal was lost in the first place so that is still an issue. I have to say that so far I've not had any GPS signal losses like that and I do ride some trails that have a lot of foliage overhead so the sky is obscured, but it is all mountain bike riding and that does generally seem to get better results due to the higher speeds compared with walking or running. Though to be fair, some of the riding under dense foliage is probably at little more than walking pace when I'm fighting uphill through thick vegetation, and I still seem to get decent tracks. My watch is a G2 but it's still not clear to me whether that makes any difference.


----------



## Hecke

petem99 said:


> Do you know whether your compass has the declination set correctly?


Thanks!
I remember reading that actually setting the declination gets the GPS confused, so I did not set any declination. 
But I calibrated my compasse (once). I will set the declination in watch and movescount, recalibrate and see what happens.
Currently, I am taking a log of the battery usage, and as it seems I am on the low consumption team.
My Hardware is G1, black/stainless steel.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

capcav73 said:


> Do you mean that without internet connection, no possibility to unload moves from SSU and save them to PC ?


Not that I have been able to find in Settings\'username'\AppData\Roaming\Suuntolink, and thereabouts. We may need an "openSpartan" hack...


----------



## Hecke

LONG_HAUL said:


> We may need an "openSpartan" hack...


If a team forms, I am in! 
I am begging Suunto for years to publish the API so I can write a link software for Linux...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Hecke said:


> If a team forms, I am in!
> I am begging Suunto for years to publish the API so I can write a link software for Linux...


Well then. The team now has two coders. I have a bit of homework to do (including setting up a Linux box I can use for this). But I'm really interested. Have you browsed the Settings\'username'\AppData\Roaming\Suuntolink directory? It has the binaries for the last update (along with some bugs/known issues notes... Interesting stuff...). Essentially the boot loader, the main, and a file system dump. It looks like a 2MB flash and perhaps 16MB non-volatile. But the file system dump is less than that and is itself more than half empty at the moment.


----------



## martowl

dontango said:


> guys! i mean, i'm also not the biggest fan of suunto releasing such a "mature" firmware...
> but they have been transparent from the beginning, that it is nowhere from perfect also giving insight into the future roadmap.
> 
> also i need to point out that the situation was similar with every ambit so far!
> every newly introduced model was weaker, less accurate and buggier than the latest revision of its predecessor.


Huh? I purchased each one of the new Ambit models when they were introduced and no, you are incorrect. The roadmaps for the Ambits were very clear and my A3P had no issues whatsoever. I know a lot of folks had issues with Android connectivity but you are not correct. I think the GPS tracking on each of the Ambits has been very consistent, it was improved in the A3P with software changes. My A3P worked great out of the box with no issues with iPhone connectivity or functions. I can post the moves when each of the Ambits was new if you would like to see them.


----------



## bruceames

I can concur. I bought the A2 and A3P and have had zero issues (AFAIK). Of course, the SSU is a totally different beast, with groundbreaking features, so some bugs should be expected. I know they are going to give 110% to get them worked out, but the hardware limitations will be what they are of course.


----------



## PTBC

I've been having OK battery life (G1 Stealth Titanium) that equates to around 14 days time usage and 14 hours GPS usage, overnight drain has been in the 1% to 2% range. This based on first weeks use after first charge.

Sunday night I fully charged then on Monday I had full days use of 8 hrs and then did a 34 min run with GPS set at best and paired to a HRM sensor for the first time and it dropped to 87% (I didn't make a note of it before the exercise), given the previous performance my suspicion is that either the battery indicator isn't calibrating properly or there's some software bug that causes higher usage for some reason.

I have notifications on and backlight as toggle, discovery is off, I have also noticed that the face selected seems to impact the overnight/idle usage, with the simple digital I have 1% while with the all dials one it seems to be 2% to 3%


----------



## PTBC

I have a track that's similar, it seems to lose me as I enter the trees and feels like it extrapolates and then a straight/smooth line to when it picks me up again from where it thinks I am.

This is my first sports/GPS watch so don't have anything to compare to, but I've noticed a couple of other things , the scale on google maps does make a difference, at one level it seems spot on and I'm on the pavement, I zoom and it switches to an angled view and I'm suddenly in the lane behind the houses. Also on a trail run the Mapbox map had a blip where the trail curved out and back briefly and my track didn't, on google maps I'm spot on the trail, they seem to be mapped slightly differently, due to tree cover it isnt possible to use a satellite view to check. Part of the same trail has distance markers and over the 1.5km section I was on trail the watch showed 1.52km which is spot on.

Anyone suggest a good alternative for exporting GPX to compare.


----------



## oli70

Hi everybody

Maybe you remember i wrote in earlier Posts, that i had Problems with not complete track. This now happened again, i now i know the Problem. I went for a Basic hiking with gps good, everything set to Standard. I was checking sometimes the breadcrumb Screen and everything looked fine. Later in the Wood, i realized that the gps Signal was sometimes off, but when the watch received again a Signal everything was fine. Then later more in the Wood, the gps Signal was lost for a while, maybe like 1 Minute. in that time, when the Signal was off, the watch stopped to record the track and didnt record more, even when i came out of the Wood with clear sky. The widget for the track on the watch looked like that (without White arrow, who indicates the gps Signal):









and later at home the movescount looked like that:








The track Looks actually quite good. Maybe fusedspeed is not working correct? Maybe someone had similar experiences.

Please excuse my bad english!


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Re. the A3 out-of-the-box - and why (in my inital review of the SSU) I talk of giving Suunto the benefit of the doubt, or actually of experience: Read the "Product Development Background" section of my A3 review... then maybe compare with the SSU tracks I just posted from 42 km in the mountains...


----------



## rdm01

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Re. the A3 out-of-the-box - and why (in my inital review of the SSU) I talk of giving Suunto the benefit of the doubt, or actually of experience: Read the "Product Development Background" section of my A3 review... then maybe compare with the SSU tracks I just posted from 42 km in the mountains...


I remember your post. An example of how the software improves the raw GPS data...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Re. the A3 out-of-the-box - and why (in my inital review of the SSU) I talk of giving Suunto the benefit of the doubt, or actually of experience: Read the "Product Development Background" section of my A3 review... then maybe compare with the SSU tracks I just posted from 42 km in the mountains...


Thanks Gerald! Already read your pre-review and looking forward to more.


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> Just to pile up, without getting too technical or condescending, just using the triathlon sport mode as example, the way Suunto has the transitions worked out while still allowing for laps to be introduced, all that on just three mechanical buttons, and providing superb visual feedback of how much longer you need to hold the button to trigger a transition, that solution right there is simply genius. That is something that has been talked about to great lengths before, and there has never been such an elegant solution like the one on the Spartan.


That is true. Pretty much impossible to mistakenly switch to transition or other sport like with F3 / F3HR. Still the Spartan Ultra lacks the very basic functionality for triathlon which is custom heart rate zones for (swim) bike & run + power zones. This can be accomplished outside of Movescount most likely with third party tools like trainingpeaks.


----------



## Nicholas2

Just received my Spartan Ultra Black. Update, Suuntolink, Movescount and settings all went without a hitch. Currently charging.

I will take it for a run tonight (I'm in Australia) and see how it goes. The next update must be very close. Would be nice if that happened before I stepped out for my run .

Cheers,
Nicholas


----------



## petem99

I've now done quite a good period with my watch without charging it or doing an activity, and with notifications/discovery off, (G2 hardware) to see how the battery life goes in time mode:

21h30m completely idle, sitting on a table = 5% used. That would equate to just under 18 days of battery life.
53h00m with a mixture of idle periods overnight and on my wrist during the day = 13% used. That would equate to just under 17 days of battery life.

So it seems as if with mine at least, it's getting at worst pretty close to and possibly better than the 15 days Suunto claim. It also looks as if it does use slightly less battery when completely idle than it does when on my wrist, which is what you would expect due to the display being off when it's idle, but I know some people couldn't see any difference in battery use between the two. However it is only a small difference on mine, so it doesn't look as though the display actually uses much power.

That's with the digital watch face the whole time though, which I've seen suggested might use less power, so for anyone with poor battery life I'd certainly try the digital watch face at least for long enough to see whether it makes a difference.


----------



## edit0r

BIG NEWS !

I got home, battery was at 65%... left my watch on the desk for 14 hours... battery went down 1%... ONE %

So the battery meter is a mess... like @Ingo said it's not linear at all.... should NOT be trusted at ALL

So, I had the exactly same settings like when I charged my watch for the first time.... 
Previous test with this watch : from (fully charged) 100% battery down to 85% it took 14 hours.... 
And btw I have the 1st watch face, discovery off, backlight on automatic 10% light power, not connected to any phone

This watch really needs some patching... I heard it's coming this week...

It's sad that Suunto does not know about this issue... and they did not take me seriously...


----------



## igobec

Hi guys,

This is my first post in this forum, I´m writing you from Spain, I have my SSU Black for a week. I came from a Fenix 3HR so, just to this moment I´m very disspoainted with the actual "beta" situation of the SSU´s software. When I bougth the watch (699€) nobody gave me any advise regarding the status of the software in the store.. I´ll wait till end of september before deciding if I keep it or I return to my previous watch. Regarding this point and if I´m not wrong. Is there a update scheduled for this week, isn´t it? 

Thanks for keeping this thread updated.

BR


----------



## IronP

Training log problems!
I think that my SSU is having some trouble with the training logs. When I am finished with one training session, the watch shows me the last training session that I did, and not the current one!
I also noticed that in the training log of the watch, the last training session does not appear!
However, the sync (both cable & app) works fine and all training sessions are sync!
Someone else also having this kind of trouble?


----------



## pixelit

Hi,

This ist my first post. I just wanted to confirm one issue/bug with the battery. Yesterday during an exercise the battery died (screen with the charge symbol appeared). After getting back and charging to 100% the watch lost 7% in the next 2 hours. After that I did the 12 second restart and then the battery consumption was as usual again (1-2% per night in idle mode).

Some Real life data: I did 4,5h of exercises (5 moves at best GPS setting), wore the watch during the day and left it on the desk at night and the battery lastet exactly 7 days. For me this is fine. GPS quality is better than my old Ambit1 (especially on the bike, only a little better during runs) but not as good as it could be. Regarding features coming from an ambit1 this watch already has some nice improvements for my use cases.

Regarding the training log: mine seems fine and displays the current one on top.


----------



## rdm01

IronP said:


> Training log problems!
> I think that my SSU is having some trouble with the training logs. When I am finished with one training session, the watch shows me the last training session that I did, and not the current one!
> I also noticed that in the training log of the watch, the last training session does not appear!
> However, the sync (both cable & app) works fine and all training sessions are sync!
> Someone else also having this kind of trouble?


I got the same problem. Reported to Suunto and engineers are working in fix it. It happened to me after 20 moves or so

deporteporvida.com


----------



## edit0r

pixelit said:


> Hi,
> 
> This ist my first post. I just wanted to confirm one issue/bug with the battery. Yesterday during an exercise the battery died (screen with the charge symbol appeared). After getting back and charging to 100% the watch lost 7% in the next 2 hours. After that I did the 12 second restart and then the battery consumption was as usual again (1-2% per night in idle mode).
> 
> Some Real life data: I did 4,5h of exercises (5 moves at best GPS setting), wore the watch during the day and left it on the desk at night and the battery lastet exactly 7 days. For me this is fine. GPS quality is better than my old Ambit1 (especially on the bike, only a little better during runs) but not as good as it could be. Regarding features coming from an ambit1 this watch already has some nice improvements for my use cases.
> 
> Regarding the training log: mine seems fine and displays the current one on top.


One page back I wrote this :

Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 167

Also wrote wrote many posts on the battery, if you look back. It's a bug!

Also wrote to Suunto many times, hope they look into it because I gave them all the needed data, how to replicate the issue, used settings... everything... now the ball is in their court.


----------



## edit0r

igobec said:


> I´ll wait till end of september before deciding if I keep it or I return to my previous watch. Regarding this point and if I´m not wrong. Is there a update scheduled for this week, isn´t it?


Yes, this week they should put up the next patch and the end of september is scheduled the next parch. 
1 more update is scheduled in October and 1 more is scheduled for December.


----------



## Pegasus

A lot of you seem to be saying I will try it for a while and return it, is it possible to use and then return after use? Where are you buying from to be able to do this?

Many thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nicholas2

Just took my Spartan Ultra Black (G1) for its first run.

It behaved well! I was on roads for 25km and the Spartan tracked precisely - always staying on the correct side of the road. No anomalies. The environment was probably not very challenging for the GPS, but even so it was better than I'm used to (Garmin 310XT and Vivoactive).

Ergonomically speaking, I find the watch a delight to use. I prefer using the buttons, which have a nice feel. The default displays and menu layout seem easy to get the hang of. Tapping the screen to get it lit is great and the display is sharp and clear. This is my first Suunto watch. I've never used Movescount before either. Love all the data and the way it works. I feel it can only get better with upcoming bug fixes and extra features.

I think I'm going to enjoy this watch long after I've forgotten about the price .

Cheers,
Nicholas


----------



## Pegasus

Got mine today, really like it so far. Buttons feel looser/softer than on the Ambits I had.

Only downside is it came without the outer sleeve on the packaging for some reason. I know it's not required but was strange.

Will report more after some testing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## morey000

Hecke said:


> Thanks!
> I remember reading that actually setting the declination gets the GPS confused, so I did not set any declination.
> But I calibrated my compasse (once). I will set the declination in watch and movescount, recalibrate and see what happens.
> Currently, I am taking a log of the battery usage, and as it seems I am on the low consumption team.
> My Hardware is G1, black/stainless steel.


I've always wondered why you would need to set a compass declination on a GPS watch.... that knows where it is. Granted, if you keep the watch for 100 years and the declination moves, I can understand having the ability to put in a custom value, but shouldn't the basic map just be programmed in as a lookup table based on location?


----------



## capcav73

Pegasus said:


> A lot of you seem to be saying I will try it for a while and return it, is it possible to use and then return after use? Where are you buying from to be able to do this?
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


+1


----------



## jeremy1271

In some shops, you can do this after 30 or 60 days. I did it after 25 days using the Suunto Traverse.


----------



## Jaka83

Another bike ride with some challenging GPS conditions (foliage and windy mountain road). I think the watch did OK-ish ... I think for my purpose the data looks OK, but if you're very demanding and want the GPS to be pinpoint accurate, this watch in the state it is today, is not for you. Clear view of the sky is not a problem, foliage and narrow valleys are a problem.

Here's the link to the move if anybody wants to analyse my pain and suffering 
(this was my fastest run on this track so far - bested my best for 2 min, but am still slow)
Jaka_Jese's 1:49 h Cycling Move


----------



## PTBC

jeremy1271 said:


> In some shops, you can do this after 30 or 60 days. I did it after 25 days using the Suunto Traverse.


Given that Suunto have made numerous statements about functionality and improvements in September if they were to fail to deliver these to an acceptable standard then you could have a case for returning the watch even outside the 30 day window that some retailers offer though you would be relying on general sale of goods law (not fit for purpose for example) not the specific return policy. That's assuming EU type rules, if your in North America then trickier; moving continents I definitely found the returns/consumer protection rules very different (EU/UK rules are much stricter for consumer protection) and for some retailers the return policy is very tight and they expect you to deal with the manufacturers warranty almost as soon as you walk out the door, that's one reason I like to use MEC locally as they have an excellent return policy.


----------



## PTBC

I've reported some data issues to Suunto that others also seem to have had, but to recap

- Pool swim data has deduction for distance, inconsistencies in log/move data
- Run that has no autolaps in the log or synced move, even though they showed on watch during run
- Logbook on watch disappearing and reappearing , sometimes I go into logbook and there are no moves, then later they show up

On the battery side I've noticed worse performance since I synced a HRM, even in day to day usage which seems to be up a couple of percent, so instead of daily usage of 7% to 8% I'm seeing 10% of which there is an increase in overnight idle from 1%/2% to 2%/3%

Wondering if there's a process involved in device pairing management that isn't terminating properly, will try a 12-sec reset to see if that helps, does anyone else with poor battery have sensors paired or not?

I did let the watch run down to below 20% at which point I had a low battery warning and an icon appeared on the watchface, so there is a battery icon in there somewhere, (wonder if they killed activity battery reporting/display in order to save battery life!)


----------



## jeremy1271

PTBC said:


> On the battery side I've noticed worse performance since I synced a HRM, even in day to day usage which seems to be up a couple of percent, so instead of daily usage of 7% to 8% I'm seeing 10% of which there is an increase in overnight idle from 1%/2% to 2%/3%
> 
> Wondering if there's a process involved in device pairing management that isn't terminating properly, will try a 12-sec reset to see if that helps, does anyone else with poor battery have sensors paired or not?


Having the HRM paired, my battery lost 5% during 36 hours, resting on my desk.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Perhaps the reason why Suunto made a move for it on the Spartan: http://www.apple.com/apple-watch-series-2/

Good thing Suunto went touchscreen and put some thought on the UI. Any multisport watches launched in the next four months without touchscreen and with lousy UI will be DOA (yes, this includes CES2017).

Time to get that Android support going Spartan team!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thyokel

just for info, 
1.Spartan Ultra .fit file failed to upload to connect.garmin.com, successfully upload to strava.com.
2.movescount.com don't support auto sync .fit file to both connect.garmin.com and strava.com, but Sports Tracker okay.


----------



## HIKESOLO

LONG_HAUL said:


> Perhaps the reason why Suunto made a move for it on the Spartan: Apple Watch Series 2 - Apple
> 
> Good thing Suunto went touchscreen and put some thought on the UI. Any multisport watches launched in the next four months without touchscreen and with lousy UI will be DOA (yes, this includes CES2017).
> 
> Time to get that Android support going Spartan team!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What will the Apple watch get with GPS on, like 3-5 hours? Couldn't even take it on a serious hike without charging on the mountain, haha. Looks nice though - not sure the Spartan Ultra or Fenix 3/4 crowd would be that interested though.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

HIKESOLO said:


> What will the Apple watch get with GPS on, like 3-5 hours? Couldn't even take it on a serious hike without charging on the mountain, haha. Looks nice though - not sure the Spartan Ultra or Fenix 3/4 crowd would be that interested though.


Yes, I agree. That was also a discussion when the first Apple Watch started selling. Many even said that short battery life would cause it to be a flop. Apple didn't publish the numbers. But you walk around and you see many Apple watches. And you see all the activity online, and all indications that they sold well, including IDC research and the very launch of a "series 2". It is sad but people will still buy it. They will choose to spend a smaller portion of the cash they would need in order to buy a more robust multisports watch, on an Apple Watch instead, and just charge it all the time. Unfortunately for us. We want companies like Suunto to thrive so we get access to the equipment we like having, when we do what we love: being outdoors. But companies like Apple are taking a portion of the market. A sizable portion I'm told. And there is no magic. Once somebody spends $400 on one "sports watch", they are not going to pay $800 for "another one". It is just the sad reality. We, ambit/Spartan/fenix folks are not the bulk of the market. We hold on to our cash, and pile another $400 on top of what would purchase an Apple Watch, just to get what we really feel we need. I just hope mammoth companies like Amer/Suunto can still push through to provide us with what we need to maintain our lifestyles.


----------



## bruceames

I have the Apple Sport watch and it's great for non-fitness stuff like directions, voice texts, notifications, etc. The built-in GPS wouldn't do me any good because I already take the iPhone with me wherever I go. 

What would really be useful is to be able to use it without having the iPhone nearby. Maybe in the Gen3 models?

I don't think the SSU is meant to compete with the Apple Watch. Very little competitive overlap. Few serious athletes won't use the Apple Watch and for longer moves it's worthless due to battery life. The casual athlete or one who would want to wear a fitbit, would not consider the SSU because it's overkill.

The Apple Watch competes more directly with Fitbit and Android smart watches. But not Suunto watches.


----------



## Hecke

morey000 said:


> I've always wondered why you would need to set a compass declination on a GPS watch.... that knows where it is. Granted, if you keep the watch for 100 years and the declination moves, I can understand having the ability to put in a custom value, but shouldn't the basic map just be programmed in as a lookup table based on location?


As it turns out, the watch does not always know where it is. Maybe if you stand still long enough, but on the move, it will rely on the available sensors to estimate the position from a former known position and elapsed steps, acceleration, and, of course, direction from the compass. Not that the 2 degrees of declination we have here in Germany do matter much in a single compass reading (which is also only accurate to some degree), but the error accumulates, as the two degrees will lack in every of the estimates. 
Some years ago I sailed quite a bit, and experienced how a good compass reading (or lack thereof) can alter your estimated position by a fair bit, sometimes making the difference between a nice dinner at sunset with fresh food or tedious harbor search in the dark...


----------



## capcav73

Ok for importance of the declination, but local value of it can be calculate from current gps position. So why not the watch should calculate itself the right current declination ?


----------



## jeremy1271

Just for the record, I just came back from a 10km run in a city with (mostly) 5 to 7 floors buildings around an open area, wearing a Ambit 3 peak on my left wrist and the SSU on the left. I have to say I'm quite happy with the result, even though it's not as perfect as the A3P.
During this run, the SSU lost 7% battery (no HRM belt)

Comparative files:

MyGPSFiles


----------



## LONG_HAUL

bruceames said:


> The Apple Watch competes more directly with Fitbit and Android smart watches. But not Suunto watches.


I'm not sure I follow but I think you may be micro-analyzing. The Apple Watch doesn't really compete with Android watches any more (or less) than it competes with some fancy headphones, a Suunto watch, or a tablet. They are all fighting for the cash that consumers have available to spend on expensive electronics. That's the problem for companies producing stuff like Spartan, Fenix and V800. They end up losing sales because of Fitbit/Samsung/Apple & Co. That means they have less money to invest on new projects and products.


----------



## raducanmihai

LONG_HAUL said:


> Yes, I agree. That was also a discussion when the first Apple Watch started selling. Many even said that short battery life would cause it to be a flop. Apple didn't publish the numbers. But you walk around and you see many Apple watches. And you see all the activity online, and all indications that they sold well, including IDC research and the very launch of a "series 2". It is sad but people will still buy it. They will choose to spend a smaller portion of the cash they would need in order to buy a more robust multisports watch, on an Apple Watch instead, and just charge it all the time. Unfortunately for us. We want companies like Suunto to thrive so we get access to the equipment we like having, when we do what we love: being outdoors. But companies like Apple are taking a portion of the market. A sizable portion I'm told. And there is no magic. Once somebody spends $400 on one "sports watch", they are not going to pay $800 for "another one". It is just the sad reality. We, ambit/Spartan/fenix folks are not the bulk of the market. We hold on to our cash, and pile another $400 on top of what would purchase an Apple Watch, just to get what we really feel we need. I just hope mammoth companies like Amer/Suunto can still push through to provide us with what we need to maintain our lifestyles.


One might argue that devices like Apple Watch put pressure on companies like Suunto and Garmin to come up with better and cheaper products, if they want to stay in business.



Hecke said:


> As it turns out, the watch does not always know where it is. Maybe if you stand still long enough, but on the move, it will rely on the available sensors to estimate the position from a former known position and elapsed steps, acceleration, and, of course, direction from the compass. Not that the 2 degrees of declination we have here in Germany do matter much in a single compass reading (which is also only accurate to some degree), but the error accumulates, as the two degrees will lack in every of the estimates.


Magnetic declination doesn't change so drastically. The watch needs to put you in the right ~50 km radius for the declination to be correct (usable).


----------



## BystrousT

My another battery life experience. I Disconected the charger on saturday morning 8:00 and yesterday evening was battery dead. This period between full charging of SSU contains 5 days of allday using with 7h 22min of running, MTB and swim. So it doesn´t need any comment.. only I hope that it will be improved with update.


----------



## XCJagge

Quote from Ambit user guide by Suunto:



Suunto Ambit User Guide said:


> To ensure correct compass readings, set an accurate declination value. Paper maps point to true north. Compasses, however, point to magnetic north-a region above the Earth where the Earth's magnetic fields pull. Because
> magnetic North and true North are not at the same location, you must set the declination on your compass. The angle in between magnetic and true north is your declination. The declination value appears on most maps. The location of magnetic north
> changes yearly, so the most accurate and up-to-date declination value can be obtained from the internet (for example Magnetic Declination). Orienteering maps, however, are drawn in relation to magnetic north. This means that when you are using orienteering maps you need to turn the declination correction off by setting the declination value to 0 degrees.


So I'd say the declination figure is used to make the north arrow in screen to point to the same direction as the north lines on map. Often those lines are not pointing to true north but map north for map not being exactly at the center meridian of the map projection. And some maps only has magnetic north lines. So the figure you set there depends on paper map you use. And it is OK to use several different figures at very same place, depending on the map you use. You can't have lookup table for it. And if it can be what ever based on the map you use that declination figure can't or should not have any effect on gps. And if gps uses compass to guestimate moving direction it surely does not use (or should not use) this user defined declination figure to do it.


----------



## arnea

Hecke said:


> As it turns out, the watch does not always know where it is. Maybe if you stand still long enough, but on the move, it will rely on the available sensors to estimate the position from a former known position and elapsed steps, acceleration, and, of course, direction from the compass.
> .


Are you suggesting that Suunto is able to calculate position changes from the accelerometer and compass data? And the sensors are mounted on your hand that moves constantly - compass can be upside down, etc. I do not believe that this is possible. The movements are too complex for this. Perhaps if you also have gyroscope that will tell you the orientation of the device.


----------



## arnea

I do not have Apple Watch, but I have iPhone for many years. I have never participated in any forum like this one here for my iPhone problems. Because there aren't any. It just works, it is logical, it improves. 

The software quality is what is going to kill Suunto. Battery performance can be improved. Perhaps they will come up with some kind of dual technology display, agressive screen blanking policy, etc.

Apple has the quality in place they just have to work on some quanitive aspects.

Samsung also has Gear S3 with GPS out.


----------



## Hecke

arnea said:


> Are you suggesting that Suunto is able to calculate position changes from the accelerometer and compass data? And the sensors are mounted on your hand that moves constantly - compass can be upside down, etc. I do not believe that this is possible. The movements are too complex for this. Perhaps if you also have gyroscope that will tell you the orientation of the device.


OK, then explain to me, how such a gps track can occur:
hecke's 1:05 h Trail running Move
between 1.8k and 4k the track is smooth, but totally unrelated to my real path (the forest road that it curves around, see the Ambit trackhttp://www.movescount.com/moves/move121128044 ).
There was dense foliage, and the road is in a valley, so I expect the watch to lose sight of several sattelites. I expect a gps device that has no reading of position to simply not record anything. Or, if the signal is faulty, to record the false location. In the latter case, there should be gps readings scattered around the area, not in a smooth path. 
So I conclude from this run that the watch is trying to estimate its position on whatever it has available. And currently in a faulty way.
Actually, the accelerometer can sense the orientation of the watch, and correct the digital (3D, I guess) compass. Far faster than your arm moves. If you then apply a smart algorithm to this data, make a model of how the runner works his arm, you can very well extract the direction of overall motion. Of course it is not so simple, and that is why it does not work properly yet.
My guess, any better explanations?


----------



## arnea

I think this is how modern GPS chips work. They will interpret the results of "raw" calculation and match them with the information about the previous location to avoid scattering and provide smooth and logical path. At old times you got scattering when the signal was weak but I haven't seen it with modern devices.

Accelerometer is sensing forces. But it is sensing the sum of all forces and cannot separate the gravity from the movement of your hand. You can apply some heuristics, but if you want to calculate the position changes based on the acceleration data, even tiny errors will amplify very fast and you will get totally random results. 

Look at the drones - they all got gyros for being able to separate their orientation.


----------



## Hecke

arnea said:


> Look at the drones - they all got gyros for being able to separate their orientation.


Hm, I get that with the drones. But how many g do you produce in your arm movement? maybe two if you really work hard. gravity is far from negligible in the readings. A good filtering should get you that.


----------



## Unperson

I keep noticing little bugs and oddities, but I'm saving up most of them until the next firmware update as some are bound to disappear.

A new one, that I haven't seen mentioned, is the behaviour of the second hand on the watch face I use. I use the one with the blue digital digits, when the display is active there is a second hand on the right ticking away the seconds. But it moves very erratically, I don't think a second ever lasts a second, sometime it ticks off one in three seconds, and the next second will see it moving three times.

Anyone else notice this?


----------



## XCJagge

We can always run through a tunnel and see is it extrapolating points or is there just straight line and points missing. Ambits did the latter.


----------



## edit0r

Unperson said:


> Anyone else notice this?


I have and I also noticed the same laggy movement with whe milliseconds on the chronometer... the movement (animation) is not fluid al all on the milliseconds indicator... have a look.


----------



## igobec

Hi guys? No news regarding the expected update for this week? It´s allready thrusday and nothing!!. Have you seen any updating calendar from Suunto? It would be something to propose to Suunto to keep an unpdated scheduling of the updates. Let´s hope to be as said.... 

As far as I now:
- First update: This week
- Second: On last week of this month
- Third: October 
--- monthly updates


----------



## bryanredneck27

igobec said:


> Hi guys? No news regarding the expected update for this week? It´s allready thrusday and nothing!!. Have you seen any updating calendar from Suunto? It would be something to propose to Suunto to keep an unpdated scheduling of the updates. Let´s hope to be as said....
> 
> As far as I now:
> - First update: This week
> - Second: On last week of this month
> - Third: October
> --- monthly updates


Second week en September could be Sunday at 23:59  or maybe just maybe they are cool enough to show us only one update wilth a bunch of things like a [email protected] alarm!!!


----------



## FryeX

It's been complete silence. So I'm fearing they are slipping the schedule. And that is not good. I'd like to have the updates before I decide if I return the watch or not. Currently it just is so far behind Fenix 3 HR on every other area except Multisport functionality and manual laps not messing up automatic laps.


----------



## IronP

FryeX said:


> It's been complete silence. So I'm fearing they are slipping the schedule. And that is not good. I'd like to have the updates before I decide if I return the watch or not. Currently it just is so far behind Fenix 3 HR on every other area except Multisport functionality and manual laps not messing up automatic laps.


Quite is good....hope because they are busy doing their late homework...!


----------



## np31

igobec said:


> Hi guys? No news regarding the expected update for this week? It´s allready thrusday and nothing!!. Have you seen any updating calendar from Suunto? It would be something to propose to Suunto to keep an unpdated scheduling of the updates. Let´s hope to be as said....
> 
> As far as I now:
> - First update: This week
> - Second: On last week of this month
> - Third: October
> --- monthly updates


No firmware just yet, but there is a new Suuntolink version just out, which refers to version 1.1.30 of the firmware. Hopefully, this should be released soon as well.

*Suuntolink Release Notes*

*Version 2.1.34* - 08.09.2016

Fixed Spartan firmware update freezing.
Fixed Suuntolink not recognizing Spartan being disconnected.
Improved Suuntolink behaviour when disconnecting Spartan during device software update.
Added missing localizations to Help page.
Fixed Spartan synchronization progress indicator (requires Spartan Software 1.1.30).
To avoid losing data, device software updates are offered only after device has been synchronized.
We're still working on some known issues:

Errors caused by having hashtag (#) in Windows user name.
Occasional firmware update failures where Suuntolink will display an error message saying that device reset is required. If this happens, please do the following:
Disconnect the device cable
Restart Suuntolink
Reconnect the device cable
Click 'Start Device Reset' in Suuntolink


----------



## anto1980

New sw online!


----------



## np31

And the new firmware is out ! (no release notes yet).


----------



## IronP

np31 said:


> And the new firmware is out ! (no release notes yet).
> 
> View attachment 9289770


how long does it take for the entire update process? I asking because I am planning to train today and if it takes long, I will skip the update for the evening after the training.
thanks.


----------



## bryanredneck27

10 minutes... I did panicked at one point so I had to reset the watch .... One again loosing ALL the info.


----------



## WEM

The full release notes, if somebody is interrested in: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6n4wk88m4ejp020/release-notes .txt?dl=0


----------



## LONG_HAUL

FryeX said:


> Currently it just is so far behind Fenix 3 HR on every other area except Multisport functionality and manual laps not messing up automatic laps.


I returned my Fenix3 HR and the only reason I would go back and purchase it again is if I felt hopelessly stuck with the ANT+ sensors I own. I think iPhones becoming waterproof represents the kiss of death for ANT+, and wouldn't be surprised if even Garmin slowly parted away from it. It was good while it lasted. And if you are under the impression that there is any aspect of the Fenix3 HR hardware that is superior to the Spartan hardware, lay it down. I have found none so far but would be open to discussion.


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> I returned my Fenix3 HR and the only reason I would go back and purchase it again is if I felt hopelessly stuck with the ANT+ sensors I own. I think iPhones becoming waterproof represents the kiss of death for ANT+, and wouldn't be surprised if even Garmin slowly parted away from it. It was good while it lasted. And if you are under the impression that there is any aspect of the Fenix3 HR hardware that is superior to the Spartan hardware, lay it down. I have found none so far but would be open to discussion.


I was talking about software. I have no doubts that given time SSU will catch up. Hardware is nice and I like how it looks. It just needs to work. For example there is no way to currently calibrate foot pod. Seriously? Or for bike Power, My P1's transmit both ANT+ and BLE. The graph and the average readings are useless. SSU fails to show 0 power for times when I stop pedaling. Generally the power reading seems to be ok, when I do pedal. Just to name a few. I could list a tonloads more that is missing or not functioning as expected. Yet. I'm sure it'll improve given time. Hopefully faster than expected.

What comes to hw I really like the display. And as mentioned earlier the way how the multisport functionality has been built in. It is very good. GPS accuracy is not on par with the F3HR. It's not much worse, and in few occasions slightly better than F3HR, for example sharp corners. But overall it is more off than F3HR. Here is a link to my short tracks for today would be here if the forum allowed me to add links. This is the best I can do for now: "www .mygpsfiles .com /app/#7seep48y" . I can't yet post links with my post count. Bike is generally ok for F3HR, neither are great on the run. F3HR is slightly less bad there. It has been the same since I got the SSU last Friday. But still too soon to tell with only 5 Moves recorded. 3,5 hours running and 2,5 with a bike. But it is a start with that data.

I'm not too worried if the tracks are a bit off when the watch looks like F3HR or SSU. Watch that can be worn every day. That's acceptable trade off for me if the way to improve is external or clumsy looking antenna. I can have a better GPS unit for those times when I really need it if I ever need it. But saying that SSU GPS is razor sharp or superior to F3HR is simply not true. At least yet.


----------



## FryeX

Oh, battery life is 40-50% better on SSU than on F3HR. Over 2,5 days with same activities tracked F3HR was down to 41% where SSU still reported 72% remaining.


----------



## PTBC

WEM said:


> The full release notes, if somebody is interrested in: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6n4wk88m4ejp020/release-notes%20.txt?dl=0


Looks like it is all bug fixes, which makes sense at this stage from a development point of view if there is another update in a couple of week which will be more feature based. Power measurement seems to have quite a few bug fixes and the compass declination is mentioned in there as well as a few swimming metrics bugs and cadence variation (jagged charts), nothing much that seems to specifically target battery bugs though there are a couple of bugs that seem to involve UI speed/issues including responsiveness waking up from powersave mode.

Noticed Suunto referring to the 'Spartan solution' which would seem to mean the watch, mobile apps, movescount and backend so some changes/improvements won't all necessarily be on the watch, it seems that 'coming to Spartan' can just mean movescount functionality not necessarily on watch capability. Still would like to see a roadmap though (navigation features for waypoints equivalent to current Ambit for example).


----------



## zvojan

First run with new FW on SSU. SSU on the left, A3P on the right. 8km, lots of foliage on the left bottom, First win for SSU . Red is SSU and blue is A3P. Will see how it goes in near future...maybe was just a bad day for A3P

A3P







ssu


----------



## rdm01

zvojan said:


> First run with new FW on SSU. SSU on the left, A3P on the right. 8km, lots of foliage on the left bottom, First win for SSU . Red is SSU and blue is A3P. Will see how it goes in near future...maybe was just a bad day for A3P
> 
> A3P
> View attachment 9291698
> 
> ssu
> View attachment 9291706


Have you got GPS accuracy complaints before the firmware update?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## zvojan

rdm01 said:


> Have you got GPS accuracy complaints before the firmware update?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


nope, why?


----------



## rdm01

zvojan said:


> nope, why?


Only to know if the new firmware comes with a GPS accuracy improvement for some users... Mine is giving me great GPS accuracy as well.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## WEM

Hm.
strange wake up delay now (activation of touch).
reference altitude bug not fixed (what a shame, sorry)
declination problem (maybe movescount bug) also not fixed
leave options before starting training now works with touch


----------



## LONG_HAUL

rdm01 said:


> Have you got GPS accuracy complaints before the firmware update?


Not having a complaint does not mean there were no issues before. Just that nothing was noticed. Any concerns?


----------



## Paulchen4711

PTBC said:


> Looks like it is all bug fixes, which makes sense at this stage from a development point of view if there is another update in a couple of week which will be more feature based. Power measurement seems to have quite a few bug fixes and the compass declination is mentioned in there as well as a few swimming metrics bugs and cadence variation (jagged charts), nothing much that seems to specifically target battery bugs though there are a couple of bugs that seem to involve UI speed/issues including responsiveness waking up from powersave mode.
> 
> Noticed Suunto referring to the 'Spartan solution' which would seem to mean the watch, mobile apps, movescount and backend so some changes/improvements won't all necessarily be on the watch, it seems that 'coming to Spartan' can just mean movescount functionality not necessarily on watch capability. Still would like to see a roadmap though (navigation features for waypoints equivalent to current Ambit for example).


I cannot see that they have worked on accuracy. Bitte what I can also not find in the List of changes is the change of the main-menue-structure. E.g. I have a stop-watch now which was not there before, IMHO.

BR Paulchen


----------



## Pegasus

Anyone else who had an Ambit or Traverse notice the buttons are much softer, less resistance when pressing them on the Spartan? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fotomas

Pegasus said:


> Anyone else who had an Ambit or Traverse notice the buttons are much softer, less resistance when pressing them on the Spartan?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is a small hardly noticble difference between my A3P and SSU.
The SSU has much smoother button surface which makes it much gentler on the fingertip. Thad maybe gives the illusion softer buttons when comparing.

IMHO

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## Paulchen4711

BTW: Does anybody know whether GLONASS works now / has been activated with 1.1.30. So far it was disabled afaik.

BR Paulchen


----------



## IronP

Guys, just did a ride with my bike of about 2.5h, using the new firmware and the battery consumption was exactly the same as before...it went from 83% to 67%....so around 6%/h.


----------



## WEM

IronP said:


> Guys, just did a ride with my bike of about 2.5h, using the new firmware and the battery consumption was exactly the same as before...it went from 83% to 67%....so around 6%/h.


same tendence here.


----------



## zvojan

IronP said:


> Guys, just did a ride with my bike of about 2.5h, using the new firmware and the battery consumption was exactly the same as before...it went from 83% to 67%....so around 6%/h.


And...is something wrong with that? 16,6 hour for full capacity looks good to me.


----------



## WEM

zvojan said:


> And...is something wrong with that? 16,6 hour for full capacity looks good to me.


in my case wrong, yes. I'vd tested in good gps mode where it shouldbe 26h. but it was the same issue in last FW.

little bit frustrated: none of my main issues fixed...


----------



## PTBC

Paulchen4711 said:


> I cannot see that they have worked on accuracy. Bitte what I can also not find in the List of changes is the change of the main-menue-structure. E.g. I have a stop-watch now which was not there before, IMHO.
> 
> BR Paulchen


Odd I've had a stopwatch on there from day one, between the settings and logbook


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Paulchen4711 said:


> I cannot see that they have worked on accuracy.


Maybe a reflection of them not getting that many reports related to GPS accuracy issues (I for one have had zero issues with GPS in about 50 hours recorded). I haven't installed the update yet. Has the GPS firmware version changed?


----------



## Paulchen4711

LONG_HAUL said:


> Maybe a reflection of them not getting that many reports related to GPS accuracy issues (I for one have had zero issues with GPS in about 50 hours recorded). I haven't installed the update yet. Has the GPS firmware version changed?


oh, good question! what was the old gps fw version?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Paulchen4711 said:


> oh, good question! what was the old gps fw version?


You are not keeping track of firmware versions.


----------



## Paulchen4711

LONG_HAUL said:


> Maybe a reflection of them not getting that many reports related to GPS accuracy issues (I for one have had zero issues with GPS in about 50 hours recorded). I haven't installed the update yet. Has the GPS firmware version changed?


oh, good question! what was the old gps fw version?


----------



## Paulchen4711

what do you mean with that? Of course I tracked 1.1.24 as "old" main fw-version. but unfortunately I didn't record specific gps-fw-version? do you have this version-number so that we can share whether it has changed?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Paulchen4711 said:


> what do you mean with that?


I mean firmware updates can be loaded independently for main system, GPS, Bluetooth, and display (they call it "touch"). We don't know what the main processor is, how much memory there is, what the display controller is, or what the BTLE module is. I think the display is a JDI MIP and would bet the controller is in the MSP430 family. Someone posted the GPS chipset is a sirfstar V. If you keep track of all versions then you can better gage when to expect changes on the behavior of those particular modules.


----------



## Paulchen4711

LONG_HAUL said:


> I mean firmware updates can be loaded independently for main system, GPS, Bluetooth, and display (they call it "touch"). We don't know what the main processor is, how much memory there is, what the display controller is, or what the BTLE module is. I think the display is a JDI MIP and would bet the controller is in the MSP430 family. Someone posted the GPS chipset is a sirfstar V. If you keep track of all versions then you can better gage when to expect changes on the behavior of those particular modules.


when I go to "settings" -> "general" -> "about" I can see a GPS version, which is now "5.7.9-P1_5.7.9". This should be the fw-version of the gps-chipset. All I'm interested in is the question whether - in the course of updating main fw to 1.1.30 - there was also an update of the gps-fw version?


----------



## Glajda

Can someone please check how many hours of activities you can store in the watch before the memory is full and you need to sync to not lose any data?
Thanks.


----------



## thyokel

the sync is still an issue. Plug, unplug, plug, unplug to sync the move over to movescount.com, otherwise it sync 0 move to movescount.com.


----------



## HIKESOLO

Really silly question but I'm going to ask it anyways. Can somebody simulate a "fishing" activity on the SSU for me? My question is, once you stop the activity, does it ask how many fish you caught in the session? I'm wondering if this is a special "hunting and fishing feature" on the Traverse Alpha or if it always asks how many fish were caught in the session when using the fishing sport profile no matter the watch.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

HIKESOLO said:


> Really silly question but I'm going to ask it anyways. Can somebody simulate a "fishing" activity on the SSU for me? My question is, once you stop the activity, does it ask how many fish you caught in the session? I'm wondering if this is a special "hunting and fishing feature" on the Traverse Alpha or if it always asks how many fish were caught in the session when using the fishing sport profile no matter the watch.


I could not find a fishing sport mode. There are several sport modes and no search functionality so I may have missed it. From the ones I did see, maybe the orienteering sport mode would let you enter control points count as a way to record the number of fishes you caught. But I have not tried it.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Paulchen4711 said:


> when I go to "settings" -> "general" -> "about" I can see a GPS version, which is now "5.7.9-P1_5.7.9". This should be the fw-version of the gps-chipset. All I'm interested in is the question whether - in the course of updating main fw to 1.1.30 - there was also an update of the gps-fw version?


It looks like besides the update on the main system firmware, there was also an update to the Bluetooth firmware. Maybe it improves connectivity to BLTE sensors.

Firmware versions before update:

* Software: 1.1.24
* GPS: 5.7.9-P1_5.7.9
* Touch: 2.0.27
* Bluetooth: 2.3.15

Firmware versions after the update:

* Software: 1.1.30
* GPS: 5.7.9-P1_5.7.9
* Touch: 2.0.27
* Bluetooth: 2.3.17


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Glajda said:


> Can someone please check how many hours of activities you can store in the watch before the memory is full and you need to sync to not lose any data?
> Thanks.


I will shoot from the heap on this one. I will start by considering the number of data points for each advertised battery life:

* 18 hours in Full Power 1-second recording, best GPS accuracy => 64.800 points
* 26 hours in Power Save 1-second recording, good GPS accuracy => 93.600 points
* 65 hours in Power Save 1-minute recording, OK GPS accuracy => 3.900 points

The "good GPS" mode is the most data storage hungry, and would set the requirement for a good design that didn't run out of memory before it ran out of battery. So my guesses would be:

* 26 hours of activity in Full Power 1-second recording, best GPS accuracy or in Power Save 1-second recording, good GPS accuracy.
* Over 1.000 hours of activity in Power Save 1-minute recording, OK GPS accuracy.


----------



## davedp

Hi everyone I have been following this forum for a while and would love some help.
I am deciding between buying a Suunto Spartan Sport or a Fenix 3 Sapphire. I get both watches for the same price. I don't really hike but do regularly use the swim, run, bike features. I am an exercise physiologist so will be wearing the watch all day everyday. I have been reading the issues with the spartan series which I'm assuming are mostly software based. Also I am a bit worried about if buying a fenix 3 at this time would be a mistake given the hardware is most likely not as good given its age. 
Any information or advice would be much appreciated to help me make the right decision.

Thanks a lot !!


----------



## raducanmihai

LONG_HAUL said:


> I returned my Fenix3 HR and the only reason I would go back and purchase it again is if I felt hopelessly stuck with the ANT+ sensors I own. I think iPhones becoming waterproof represents the kiss of death for ANT+, and wouldn't be surprised if even Garmin slowly parted away from it. It was good while it lasted. And if you are under the impression that there is any aspect of the Fenix3 HR hardware that is superior to the Spartan hardware, lay it down. I have found none so far but would be open to discussion.


Regarding Ant+: It currently does something that BTLE can't, namely connecting a slave to multiple masters. For example, you have a speed/cadence pod and you want to send the data to your watch and your bike computer, at the same time. They say that the next version of BT will be able to do that, but until then...

And just to give you an example where this becomes a real issue: if you connect your BTLE HR belt to your phone one time and you leave the BT on (on your phone), every time you want to start a move using your watch, HR belt will not be found. That's because the moment you put it on, it will connect with your phone and the watch can't find it. You have to turn off your phone's BT or unpair your HR belt.


----------



## Jaka83

Yesterday evening I updated the watch to v 1.1.30 and charged it to 100%. Took it off the charger at around 10 PM and this morning at 5 AM the battery was at 95%. I hope this is just a flashing anomaly and the watch just displays the wrong % - this is a common issue when flashing custom firmware on android smartphones, where the phone needs at least one full battery cycle to calibrate itself and show the correct % again.

Going for a two-day photo hike/trek in the Julian Alps today and I'll be bringing a battery pack with me just in case. I will post the results here on Sunday.


----------



## edit0r

davedp said:


> I don't really hike but do regularly use the swim, run, bike features.


1. Swimming - Garmin hands down. Suunto plans to implement custom pool setting for Spartan sometimes in the future but it does not know when... also the swimming styles later on... it could take some time on the last one

2. Run - At this time I am recommending Spartan just based on the way better GPS precision. BUT if you don't have a challenging area where you usually run the Fenix 3 can work pretty good... for instance if you run in an open area, not many trees around, not a lot of foliage, low level buildings are far away from your course. The Fenix 3 has all the fields fully customisable, Suunto has some standards screen that you can't modify at this point in time... you will later... we don't know when for sure.
Fenix has the advanced running dynamics that some find very good and useful... Spartan will not have them.

3. Biking - Both watches work very good when biking when we talk about GPS precision... Again, Fenix has all the screens and fields fully customisable... Suunto will have them at a later date...

Overall at this point in therms of features and functionality the Fenix 3/Fenix 3 HR is head and shoulders above Spartan.

I am sure Spartan will get there but it will take at least 4-6 months...


----------



## edit0r

Noticed some heavy lagging when I took the watch off the desk today and pushed the buttons to see the battery percentage.
Also noticed that the battery went down more then usual.


----------



## WEM

edit0r said:


> Noticed some heavy lagging when I took the watch off the desk today and pushed the buttons to see the battery percentage.
> Also noticed that the battery went down more then usual.


Hi,

exactly what I mentioned a few post ago. It take a few seconds between button press and response / touch usable when watch is in time mode or on desk.... this feels totaly strange to me. :-(

In the while I can confirm, that my battery issue is not solved: 4% in 40 Min of training in GPS good mode. That about 6-7% / hour. Fine for best gps mode, but not for good... unchanged.

I'm totally frustrated at the moment: none of my issues is solved. 
Only positive change I noticed till yet is the now working exit from options menu before training with touch. The response delay when activating watch is terrible to me :-(

Someone other has experienced any positive changes?


----------



## Zdenal

Hi Guys
After the SW update to 1.1.30- 
are you now able to set your own, personal distance for swimming pool? e.g 22m long?
are you now able to set manually altitude higher than 400m(previously this was not possible) - e.g. when hiking in 2400 m above the sea to set this height.

Thx for sharing.


----------



## WEM

Zdenal said:


> Hi Guys
> are you now able to set manually altitude higher than 400m(previously this was not possible) - e.g. when hiking in 2400 m above the sea to set this height.
> Thx for sharing.


No! Not fixed.


----------



## Hecke

Paulchen4711 said:


> which is now "5.7.9-P1_5.7.9".


It is the same on my watch which is not yet updated.


----------



## edit0r

Zdenal said:


> Hi Guys
> After the SW update to 1.1.30-
> are you now able to set your own, personal distance for swimming pool? e.g 22m long?


The option was missing from the start. Wrote to Suunto and they replied that they will make the option available at some point but they did not give an estimated time.
Unfortunately the option is still missing in this firmware release... Hopefully it will show up in 2 weeks if not...


----------



## tinu80

WEM said:


> Hi,
> 
> exactly what I mentioned a few post ago. It take a few seconds between button press and response / touch usable when watch is in time mode or on desk.... this feels totaly strange to me. :-(
> 
> In the while I can confirm, that my battery issue is not solved: 4% in 40 Min of training in GPS good mode. That about 6-7% / hour. Fine for best gps mode, but not for good... unchanged.
> 
> I'm totally frustrated at the moment: none of my issues is solved.
> Only positive change I noticed till yet is the now working exit from options menu before training with touch. The response delay when activating watch is terrible to me :-(
> 
> Someone other has experienced any positive changes?


Unfortunately, not really... 
Reference height still not OK. That's really a shame, because I think this would need maybe 30 seconds of coding to them (probably setting some constant "referenceMax" or so from 400 to 10000...)
I also notice higher battery drain overnight (6% in 12 h), but this is maybe a calibration issue as somebody already mentioned. Will keep an eye on it.
I can't notice any response delay when activating the watch.
In the meantime I could test a bit the vertical speed accuracy. This graph is from a paragliding flight yesterday:







Now if you estimate the vertical speed from the altitude graph, you would get around -90 m/min. This corresponds nicely to the actual sinking rate of my paraglider. But if you look at the vertical speed graph, the mean value seem to be totally wrong (maybe -20 m/min).


----------



## Hecke

WEM said:


> exactly what I mentioned a few post ago. It take a few seconds between button press and response / touch usable when watch is in time mode or on desk....


I have this with the old firmware already. 
Also waking the watch via the touch display is impossible.


----------



## WEM

Did make a service request for each problem I have now.

The buggy compass (declination bug, calibration needed every time after synch) and the not reliable altitude readings (need a manual calibration while training!) makes the watch useless for serious mountaineering for me.
I can live with a inaccurate GPS track or some synch problems... but this basic features are absolutely necessary for emergency cases.

i'm very angry about that the update doesn't solve this basic issues.


----------



## edit0r

Hecke said:


> I have this with the old firmware already.


I haven't felt it as bad in the previous firmware as I felt it in this fresh new one...



Hecke said:


> Also waking the watch via the touch display is impossible.


This works as intended and I think is good that it works this way so you can avoid accidentally waking up the watch... 
Like in the rain, or when you take a shower...


----------



## jukkaforss

Did clock delete your training logs in update ?
Mine was empty after the update. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FryeX

Yep, training log is empty. They should allow at least the overview of the data to sync back to watch too. I also had my declination set to -90 after the update. Went out and took a look at the compass and wondered What? Glad that my internal compass is at least reliable enough to notice that big mistake


----------



## LONG_HAUL

raducanmihai said:


> Regarding Ant+: It currently does something that BTLE can't, namely connecting a slave to multiple masters. For example, you have a speed/cadence pod and you want to send the data to your watch and your bike computer, at the same time. They say that the next version of BT will be able to do that, but until then...
> 
> And just to give you an example where this becomes a real issue: if you connect your BTLE HR belt to your phone one time and you leave the BT on (on your phone), every time you want to start a move using your watch, HR belt will not be found. That's because the moment you put it on, it will connect with your phone and the watch can't find it. You have to turn off your phone's BT or unpair your HR belt.


That's all correct. I personally don't understand why ANT+ didn't become the prevalent technology in many areas. And I dislike having to go through the precise procedure you described when one head unit hijacks a sensor. But that seems to be preferred for the average user, or at least nobody seems to really care. At least not Apple.


----------



## rdm01

LONG_HAUL said:


> That's all correct. I personally don't understand why ANT+ didn't become the prevalent technology in many areas. And I dislike having to go through the precise procedure you described when one head unit hijacks a sensor. But that seems to be preferred for the average user, or at least nobody seems to really care. At least not Apple.


Because ant+ is owned by Garmin and IBM freed Bluetooth.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## rdm01

I went for a swim today in a 50 m pool with the new fw 1.1.30. Distance measured in the summary was 50m less than the real one. Lap distance was right (1500 m). Suuntolink won't upload the workout to movescount :-( 

deporteporvida.com


----------



## igobec

No important bugs fixed at this update, appart to all you allready said, still gives wrong value of the conection status of the HR sensor, always is shown as disconnected..:sob:

No option for "autostop" function in any activity, you have to stop the time manually everytime you stop.

Let's hope that Suunto makes "much more" for the next update.


----------



## Nicholas2

Mmm. I ran 25 km tonight. It's in the logbook on the watch, but won't transfer over to Movescount. Started a test activity for five seconds and saved that, which then did transfer over. 

Is there any way of forcing a transfer of a particular item? It's definitely there on the watch, but Suuntolink doesn't seem to recognise it.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

davedp said:


> I am deciding between buying a Suunto Spartan Sport or a Fenix 3 Sapphire. Any information or advice would be much appreciated to help me make the right decision.Thanks a lot !!


Are you in my age group? ;-)


----------



## Hecke

Got a reply from Suunto about the GPS glitches:



> Spartan Ultra/Sport GPS performance has been measured and tested to be very good and equal compared to Ambit3 family. Due to smaller GPS antenna compared to Ambit3 Peak, the Spartan is more dependent on GPS assistance data, that is loaded to the watch when syncing with Movescount, using the Movescount App or the SuuntoLink Program. In order to ensure the best possible GPS track, make sure the Server Generated Extended Ephemeris (SGEE) date stamp in Settings - General - About is as fresh as possible, preferably not more than 2 days old.
> For now, we recommend: please always use best GPS Accuracy when recording a move, and always sync your device with SuuntoLink before the move, for satellite orbital data updates.
> A new Software update will be available soon. This Software will focus on improving the GPS Function of the Suunto Spartan Ultra, among other features.


I am quite annoyed that they did not treat my request as the bug report it was.

Can anyone comment on how the SGEE works? I thought it makes locating sattelites faster as their approximate location is known. But once the location is well determined, the SGEE does not help further, does it? Maybe reconnecting to further sattelites when the signal is lost under dense foliage? Thanks!


----------



## IronP

WEM said:


> Hi,
> 
> exactly what I mentioned a few post ago. It take a few seconds between button press and response / touch usable when watch is in time mode or on desk.... this feels totaly strange to me. :-(
> 
> In the while I can confirm, that my battery issue is not solved: 4% in 40 Min of training in GPS good mode. That about 6-7% / hour. Fine for best gps mode, but not for good... unchanged.
> 
> I'm totally frustrated at the moment: none of my issues is solved.
> Only positive change I noticed till yet is the now working exit from options menu before training with touch. The response delay when activating watch is terrible to me :-(
> 
> Someone other has experienced any positive changes?


In the positive side, we have now a small icon (Green) at the bottom of the screen, when the watch is synchronising with the iPhone! Otherwise I do not see any improvements! I can also report the problem with the time response of the watch! Sometimes I press the button to change the menu and the vibration comes like 2 seconds later! Terrible!
At this pace of improvements, we will get a good functioning training tool in ca. 8+ months only! (hopefully I am wrong, though!)


----------



## Nicholas2

My request to Suunto asking if there's a way I can get an activity (my run) off the watch after Suuntolink didn't upload it seems to have triggered an automatic email from them, which in part says:

Many of you have asked for the fully customisable sport modes. They will not be in the second September update, but we are working hard to release them soon.

Just in case no one has seen this yet ... not that I'm worried.


----------



## rdm01

One bug I reported was fixed. The big is related with cadence and power data when riding with a Stages powemeter. So they are doing something XD

deporteporvida.com


----------



## WEM

Nicholas2 said:


> My request to Suunto asking if there's a way I can get an activity (my run) off the watch after Suuntolink didn't upload it seems to have triggered an automatic email from them, which in part says:
> 
> Many of you have asked for the fully customisable sport modes. They will not be in the second September update, but we are working hard to release them soon.
> 
> Just in case no one has seen this yet ... not that I'm worried.


What does this mean? No customization in September? Moved to when?


----------



## IronP

Just received an e-mail from suunto:


DEAR SUUNTO SPARTAN OWNER,As you may already have noticed a software update for Suunto Spartan watches was released yesterday, August 8th. The latest release brings improvements to general stability and watch synchronization with mobile devices, as well as fixes to known issues, particularly related to navigation and swimming sport modes. You can install the update via Suuntolink. The following update, scheduled for the end of September, will bring the possibility to edit sport mode settings, Android compatibility, peer-to-peer coaching on Movescount.com, community training insights and more to the solution. Many of you have asked for the fully customisable sport modes. They will not be in the second September update, but we are working hard to release them soon. 
To learn more about the updates visit suunto.com/spartangetsstronger. This page includes information on the latest software version and the key features associated with it.


----------



## Nicholas2

WEM said:


> What does this mean? No customization in September? Moved to when?


IronP gave the full text above.

Guess it will be later this year.


----------



## jackstraxx

Nicholas2 said:


> IronP gave the full text above.
> 
> Guess it will be later this year.


You'll be able to customise the existing sport modes, just won't be able to create new ones!


----------



## jackstraxx

IronP said:


> Just received an e-mail from suunto:
> 
> 
> DEAR SUUNTO SPARTAN OWNER,As you may already have noticed a software update for Suunto Spartan watches was released yesterday, August 8th. The latest release brings improvements to general stability and watch synchronization with mobile devices, as well as fixes to known issues, particularly related to navigation and swimming sport modes. You can install the update via Suuntolink. The following update, scheduled for the end of September, will bring the possibility to edit sport mode settings, Android compatibility, peer-to-peer coaching on movescount.com, community training insights and more to the solution. Many of you have asked for the fully customisable sport modes. They will not be in the second September update, but we are working hard to release them soon.
> To learn more about the updates visit suunto.com/spartangetstronger. This page includes information on the latest software version and the key features associated with it.


Love that they got the date wrong


----------



## IronP

jackstraxx said:


> Love that they got the date wrong


Just a small bug....i am sure that they will correct this by the next update....


----------



## jackstraxx

IronP said:


> Just a small bug....i am sure that they will correct this by the next update....


You mean the famous August update?


----------



## IronP

I told you guys that it was a small bug... 
I just got another e-mail from suunto:
Service Announcement - September 9th, 2016

SPORTS WATCHES PREMIUM WATCHES DIVE PRODUCTS COMPASSES ACCESSORIES 
Read more
DEAR SUUNTO SPARTAN OWNER,
Apologies for sending this message to you twice. In the previous email we had mistakenly written that the software update was released in August. The correct release date was yesterday, September 8th. The latest release brings improvements to general stability and watch synchronization with mobile devices, as well as fixes to known issues, particularly related to navigation and swimming sport modes. You can install the update via Suuntolink.
The following update, scheduled for the end of September, will bring the possibility to edit sport mode settings, Android compatibility, peer-to-peer coaching on Movescount.com, community training insights and more to the solution. Many of you have asked for the fully customisable sport modes. They will not be in the second September update, but we are working hard to release them soon.

To learn more about the updates visit suunto.com/spartangetsstronger. This page includes information on the latest software version and the key features associated with it.

Have a great weekend!

Best regards,

Your Suunto Team

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

New Bluetooth firmware is an improvement for me. Powermeter and foot pod data look pristine. Also, no issues syncing through the iPhone app. I did the update like this: unpair everything on the watch manually, perform a 12-sec reset, plug to PC and do firmware update, perform another 12-sec reset, pair everything again. I also unpaired and repaired the watch ton the iPhone app after the update. Worked like a charm. I have had to do that before for other brands/models so it was sort of repeating a procedure I sometimes do. I'm not by any means suggesting any of the unpairing/resetting was necessary.


----------



## IronP

LONG_HAUL said:


> New Bluetooth firmware is an improvement for me. Powermeter and foot pod data look pristine. Also, no issues syncing through the iPhone app. I did the update like this: unpair everything on the watch, 12-sec reset, update, 12-sec reset, pair everything again. Worked like a charm.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I kept all the sensors paired, but during the update, suuntolink requested a reset of the watch.
I did the 12s reset but without disconnecting the cable and than the update went through without problems.
Sensors remained paired after update.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Updated the firmware, swimming data still has an odd deduction at the end of the move, interestingly on movescount it did show different styles for some laps (though it was totally wrong) so something is obviously in the works there, also the calorie and recovery values were very different from previous swim. Going back from options to start screen was definitely working now though.

I've had previously no problem syncing to my iphone, apart from after the update when I had my first failed sync and it seems to take even longer to sync.

Recording and keeping declination is still an issue it seems, given that the setup asks for location down to a nearest major city you think a simple table linked to that for declination would be close enough for most cases or at least to use as a default until a specific value is entered.

Battery usage overnight was 1% so at least that is ok, but it does seem longer to wakeup/unlock than before.

Struggling to see much improvement, right now making spartan stronger may not be the most appropriate tag line


----------



## PTBC

Definitely something not right, you would think that there's some smoothing of obvious outliers, image not linked, but there were a number of spikes with stroke at over 500/min


----------



## Pegasus

I get the following message in Movescount - Movescount and device settings out of sync. It shows software as 0.0.0.

Can anyone help with why this is? I've synced with the app on iPhone. Not sure what it means?

Many thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rdm01

PTBC said:


> Updated the firmware, swimming data still has an odd deduction at the end of the move, interestingly on movescount it did show different styles for some laps (though it was totally wrong) so something is obviously in the works there, also the calorie and recovery values were very different from previous swim. Going back from options to start screen was definitely working now though.
> 
> I've had previously no problem syncing to my iphone, apart from after the update when I had my first failed sync and it seems to take even longer to sync.
> 
> Recording and keeping declination is still an issue it seems, given that the setup asks for location down to a nearest major city you think a simple table linked to that for declination would be close enough for most cases or at least to use as a default until a specific value is entered.
> 
> Battery usage overnight was 1% so at least that is ok, but it does seem longer to wakeup/unlock than before.
> 
> Struggling to see much improvement, right now making spartan stronger may not be the most appropriate tag line


My swimming workouts are not being uploaded to movescount with new firmware... At least my last one. Did your use the mobile app to sync yours or the USB cable? If USB, are you PC or Mac user?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## bryanredneck27

My will not sync with the new update on the iPhone... Did everything pair, unpair, etc gets stuck in the first move... Skills...


----------



## PTBC

Answering a call was obvious, just tap the screen, just been playing around to see how to dismiss as there's no obvious indication on the watch; turns out dismissing a call from the watch is done using a downward swipe, touch only buttons don't seem to do anything.

Suunto is of interest to only a section of the watch/wearable market in terms of price and functions, some people will not justify it unless they can also use it day to day not just as something they put on to exercise, and unfortunately these days that at least means notifications and some phone integration. Might not seem like a core area, but given competitors are offering this they can't avoid it (after all why did they add a touch screen), at the moment there's not even music control which is basic functionality and the notifications system is sparse to say the least.

I've turned off toggle for the backlight which I liked as a function as I found that with the phone locked a notification would appear and there was no way to turn on the light without waking up the touchscreen with a button push which then seemed to lose the notification (and once gone they are gone, no history)

Phone integration can work 2 ways though as Suunto could dump the day to day activity data back into the phone (apple health app) rather than have it in movescount, e.g. Peeble has an option to do this or just use the Peeble app


----------



## IronP

bryanredneck27 said:


> My will not sync with the new update on the iPhone... Did everything pair, unpair, etc gets stuck in the first move... Skills...


Mine is working well with the iPhone 6 and the new firmware! Btw...did nothing after the firmware update and the sync was flawless!
Today I did training sessions with the bike and open water swim and both synced perfect through the mobile.
Although I must say that the gps route in swimming was much rougher than before....! But the water conditions were also rougher....so lets see! Tomorrow I will swim again at the same location...!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PTBC

Mobile app, but it failed to sync at first and I had a error message, but then when I closed the app and reopened it and tried again it worked, though it was slow


----------



## Pegasus

I've noticed the slowness on screen changes since the update, I now have a sticking pixel on the screen, it remains white when text has moved across it and changes when I shift to a different screen. Pretty certain it didn't happen prior to update. Very strange!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Looking at the DC rainmaker site and in the comments under the Spartan article someone posted this reply they had from Suunto

“We would like to share some of the features that are scheduled to be release on the Suunto Spartan Ultra and Movescount. By the end of September, the new firmware should allow you to have the following.
– Sport mode customization
– Support for planned moves
– Alarm clock
– Possibility to store the feeling after the move
– Coaching tools in Movescount
– Community Training insights in Movescount
– Personal bests in Movescount
– Android app support


The next release in set sometime in the Q4 of 2016 which includes:
– Alti/Baro graphs in daily view
– Temperature in daily view
– Storm alarm
– Recovery test (sleep & quick)
– Running performance
– POI navigation
– Rest/Recovery/Active/Training/Race days
– Interval timer
– Mobile app sport mode editing
– Autopause
– SuuntoLink Windows 7 full support”

A bit more detailed than I've seen elsewhere, note the use of "should' in the first section though


----------



## Nicholas2

rdm01 said:


> My swimming workouts are not being uploaded to movescount with new firmware... At least my last one.?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Sounds like my issue, last run workout not being uploaded - using USB cable and Windows 10 laptop. As mentioned earlier, this may just be a single occurrence since a test workout of several seconds that I tried later did sync OK.

Perhaps in some cases, the first workout after the firmware upgrade doesn't sync? Be interesting to see how your next one goes!


----------



## PTBC

Nicholas2 said:


> Sounds like my issue, last run workout not being uploaded - using USB cable and Windows 10 laptop. As mentioned earlier, this may just be a single occurrence since a test workout of several seconds that I tried later did sync OK.
> 
> Perhaps in some cases, the first workout after the firmware upgrade doesn't sync? Be interesting to see how your next one goes!


My first sync after the update failed, but when I retried it did sync the existing move that had failed, I tried creating a new route today and syncing and that was ok with no errors.
What I have noticed is that on entering the sync screen on the mobile app it initially shows the phone status is disconnected then changes to connected and starts syncing. Does the watch autosync if you leave it, so far I have always gone into the watch option within an hour or so of a move which initiates a sync


----------



## LONG_HAUL

With the new firmware now the pool swim sport mode shows swolf score and average stroke rate in the summary for the move. And the AUTOMATIC INTERVALS FEATURE works perfectly. I have used another watch to time intervals and somehow the Spartan gets the start and the end of the intervals with incredible accuracy, timing intervals, say each of a 5 X 100 yd, just as if I was actually pressing buttons. I didn't press a single button on the Spartan during my entire workout (other than to start and end it). Within 10 seconds from stopping, the interval distance is reset to zero on the watch and you know then you are all set for the next one. So convenient I think I will never go back to getting a watch that does not have that function. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nicholas2

I've fixed my upload problem. Although, I changed two things at once, so can't be entirely sure.

I'm using satellite internet access. I believe the latency (lag) associated with this may have been causing unreliable upload/download issues from Movescount. When I switched to 4G, everything updated correctly - the run workout that was missed before and the route I'd created on Movescount.

I'd also reinstalled Suuntolink, but I don't see why doing this would change anything. Anyhow, you live and learn


----------



## Robbie1972

My watch is seeing a Suunto smart sensor heart rate monitor, i am trying to connect my Spartan to my Wattbike via Bluetooth and not getting anywhere. Has anyone managed to connect the watch to a Wattbike?


----------



## WEM

Update for battery usage with SW 1.1.30: Did a test last night: just laying my watch 12h on desk, 2% of battery usage in this time period.


----------



## edit0r

WEM said:


> Update for battery usage with SW 1.1.30: Did a test last night: just laying my watch 12h on desk, 2% of battery usage in this time period.


Since the battery meter is so unreliable I can't really trust it anymore... So if you ask me... those 2% are not truly 2%...
Suunto still haven't answered to my ticked... The only answer that I got so far on the battery meter was that my ticked reached the headquarters... So they finally taking me seriously and that's a good thing.
Hope they will fix it till the next patch.


----------



## bluelee333633

it seems that suunto is not good at processing gloness signal. i did a walk in mid-heavy trees with my watch only with gps on and gloness off, route are very precise and each corner is so sharp. 


从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

LONG_HAUL said:


> With the new firmware now the pool swim sport mode shows swolf score and average stroke rate in the summary for the move. And the AUTOMATIC INTERVALS FEATURE works perfectly. I have used another watch to time intervals and somehow the Spartan gets the start and the end of the intervals with incredible accuracy, timing intervals, say each of a 5 X 100 yd, just as if I was actually pressing buttons. I didn't press a single button on the Spartan during my entire workout (other than to start and end it). Within 10 seconds from stopping, the interval distance is reset to zero on the watch and you know then you are all set for the next one. So convenient I think I will never go back to getting a watch that does not have that function.


And battery life is a non issue. Suunto is obviously working very hard to get so much accomplished so quickly. Amazing!


----------



## BobMiles

Does anybody know how long shipping from suunto takes? I should receive a watch for testing, but the retailer is still waiting for the watches himself... 
Such a pity as I wanted to test the spartan in a 200k bike race tomorrow.
Maybe suunto is holding shipments back until further updates? 

Gesendet von meinem HUAWEI GRA-L09 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Jaka83

Back from my two-day hike. Updated the watch to 1.1.30 prior to hiking.

First off, the battery during sport mode looks according to Suunto claims. After about 6,5 hours of hiking and an about an hour worth of pauses in between, my watch was down from 98% (2% lost during 7 hours of resting on my desk during the night) to 55%, so good job there Suunto. Projected battery life with best GPS accuracy and hiking in semi hard GPS conditions is around 15-16 hours for me.

Next thing, the first hike I did looks funky on Movescount. The GPS data is there, as are all other parameters except HR - after 2h it looks like I flatlined at 119 bpm. :s
Then after 4h of hiking the altitude graph and the HR are gone but the data for altitude is there because I know how much vertical gain the trail has and the sum is correct.
Jaka_Jese's 6:24 h Hiking Move

The second move I did the next day looks fine, apart from the jagged GPS tracking in the rough terrain.
Jaka_Jese's 4:37 h Hiking Move

After the first move I recharged the watch during the night using a battery pack (1 amp output).
On a side note - does anybody know if the watch can handle 2 amp charging? If not, does it have an internal safety to draw only 1 amp if connected to 2 amp output?

It's strange Suunto did not include any HR data with hiking/trekking sport modes - I have no telling of how hard I'm pushing uphill. I know I'll be able to customize that at the end of this month, am just surprised they left out a bunch of useful data for hikers.


----------



## Paulchen4711

bluelee333633 said:


> it seems that suunto is not good at processing gloness signal. i did a walk in mid-heavy trees with my watch only with gps on and gloness off, route are very precise and each corner is so sharp.
> 
> 从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


how can you see whether glonass is on or off?

br paulchen


----------



## anto1980

My last short moves.

Ambit3 Peak (beta sw 2.3.0):
http://www.movescount.com/it/moves/move122399122

SSU (sw 1.1.30):
http://www.movescount.com/it/moves/move122249604

Ambit3 Peak with 3D distance switched ON.


----------



## krazyeone

@anto1980 from where do you have beta 2.3.0?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Nicholas2

Jaka83 said:


> On a side note - does anybody know if the watch can handle 2 amp charging? If not, does it have an internal safety to draw only 1 amp if connected to 2 amp output?


The 2 amps represent the capacity of the battery pack. It is the voltage that matters. Your watch will just draw the current (amps) it needs.

So, yes, you can use that battery pack .

Cheers,
Nicholas


----------



## Jaka83

Nicholas2 said:


> The 2 amps represent the capacity of the battery pack. It is the voltage that matters. Your watch will just draw the current (amps) it needs.
> 
> So, yes, you can use that battery pack .
> 
> Cheers,
> Nicholas


Not entirely true ... the capacity of the battery is represented in amp hours, or rather mAh (milliampere hours). The current is represented in Amps, or A for short as you stated.

For example the battery pack has a capacity of 8000 mAh and two outputs - 1 A and 2 A. The output voltage is a standard USB 5 V.

So the question still stands - is it safe to charge it on a battery pack with 2 A and 5 V output?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Jaka83 said:


> So the question still stands - is it safe to charge it on a battery pack with 2 A and 5 V output?


Correct, the question still stands. My suggestion to you is to not use anything over 1A. I have myself caused a hardware failure (broken thermometer) on another watch because I connected it to a USB output that was rated 3A. The watch still worked but it was visibility damaged as operation became erratic. It happened overnight. Since then I personally make sure I don't go over 1A. Lower amperages (500 mA is common) may just take longer to charge but I never had issues with them.


----------



## ifarlow

That's not how electronics work. The amperage rating of the charger is the upper limit that the charger can provide, not what it will always provide. So, as long at the voltage of the charger is correct for the device to be charged (5V in the case of USB charging), then the amperage can be higher than the device needs because the charger will provide _only_ what the device needs up to the limit of the charger.

To recommend not using more than 1A is just spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt).


----------



## LONG_HAUL

ifarlow said:


> That's not how electronics work. The amperage rating of the charger is the upper limit that the charger can provide, not what it will always provide. So, as long at the voltage of the charger is correct for the device to be charged (5V in the case of USB charging), then the amperage can be higher than the device needs because the charger will provide _only_ what the device needs up to the limit of the charger.


What you said is a safer bet when working with power supplies (supplies that provide power to an electronic circuit), although I have seen weird stuff go on with those too (increased voltage output). But with chargers it is not a very safe bet because it does make some assumptions concerning current regulation during charging. Remember, there is way more than 5V as input to the charger and you are relying on its circuitry to properly regulate/convert it. As I said, my suggestion to the poster was to not use a charger rated over 1A. That is just my own suggestion based on personal experience that may not even apply to the charger they own and to the Spartan because the point you made applies perfectly. Still my two cents though. Just keep in mind that two chargers that show the exact same rating are not always born equal. Not intended to spread FUD, it is just that electronic circuits come in varying levels of quality, unfortunately.


----------



## PTBC

Any thoughts on how much impact using HRM sensor has on the battery life, did 45 min trail run today and battery dropped 7% which would be at the 10-11 hour mark for usage with GPS at best and HRM, I saw an article about the new TomTom watch and there was roughly 20% less battery life in HRM version vs non-HRM version in GPS mode.

The track recorded was odd though, on the service road with clear sky visible it totally lost me for about 5 minutes so I had some wandering lines totally off the track then a straight line back to where it picked up again, oddly the narrow trail back on the other side of the river which has steep bank to one side and almost total tree coverage the track was spot on and that is where I would have expected it to struggle. Seems like the potential is there if they can sort out the bugs

Before the run I did try calibrating the compass as I hadn't done it since firmware update (declination is still being screwed up) and after 5 minutes in the car park waving my arms around gave up as it just wasn't doing anything, once I synced the move at home I did the 12 second reset and tried calibrating, it was slow but worked. It also seemed to use the straight line adjustment to calculate pace so there was a massive spike.

Edit-map quirk, according to google terrain map I (and the trail) were in the river on the way back, mapbox and google satelite view showed dry feet


----------



## paul1928

LONG_HAUL said:


> Correct, the question still stands. My suggestion to you is to not use anything over 1A. I have myself caused a hardware failure (broken thermometer) on another watch because I connected it to a USB output that was rated 3A. The watch still worked but it was visibility damaged as operation became erratic. It happened overnight. Since then I personally make sure I don't go over 1A. Lower amperages (500 mA is common) may just take longer to charge but I never had issues with them.


Like a mobile phone, the Spartan will draw whatever current it wants to draw (up to the value the source is able to supply while still delivering the required voltage). It is perfectly safe to charge your Spartan on an old 500mA USB source, a 1A source or a 2.1A source. There is charging circuitry between the source and the internal battery to regulate. Again, like most mobile phones, you'll notice it slows its charging right down (ie, draws a much lower current) as it approaches 100%.


----------



## raducanmihai

anto1980 said:


> My last short moves.
> 
> Ambit3 Peak (beta sw 2.3.0):
> 0:39 o Trail running di ANTONIODALESSANDRO Move
> 
> SSU (sw 1.1.30):
> 0:39 o Trail running di ANTONIODALESSANDRO Move
> 
> Ambit3 Peak with 3D distance switched ON.


What's different/new in the 2.3.0 firmware?


----------



## edit0r

Jaka83 said:


> So the question still stands - is it safe to charge it on a battery pack with 2 A and 5 V output?


This is that kind of question that you ONLY ask Suunto... because you really NEED to be able to TRUST the answer.

Personally I would not risk a 800$ watch.... unless you are in a position that you can afford to buy 1 more in the next 5 seconds without blinking...

Also be careful with the battery packs... I've seen many battery packs that do not output the numbers written on the package... There are a lot of low quality, shady ones out there...


----------



## Jaka83

paul1928 said:


> Like a mobile phone, the Spartan will draw whatever current it wants to draw (up to the value the source is able to supply while still delivering the required voltage). It is perfectly safe to charge your Spartan on an old 500mA USB source, a 1A source or a 2.1A source. There is charging circuitry between the source and the internal battery to regulate. Again, like most mobile phones, you'll notice it slows its charging right down (ie, draws a much lower current) as it approaches 100%.


This is what I was asking ... if the Spartan has some sort of regulating circuit. I'm not totally convinced with your answer, because I've heard people with Ambit 1 and 2 having issues after charging them with higher current battery packs. Then again, how do you know what your USB 2 or 3.1 port on your computer outputs. Yes, there is a standard and yes, the plug fits ... just asking.



edit0r said:


> This is that kind of question that you ONLY ask Suunto... because you really NEED to be able to TRUST the answer.
> 
> Personally I would not risk a 800$ watch.... unless you are in a position that you can afford to buy 1 more in the next 5 seconds without blinking...
> 
> Also be careful with the battery packs... I've seen many battery packs that do not output the numbers written on the package... There are a lot of low quality, shady ones out there...


Time for another e-mail to Suunto support then. Until I get a clear answer from them, I'll stick to the 1 A port on my battery pack - it takes a short time to charge anyway.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

paul1928 said:


> Like a mobile phone, the Spartan will draw whatever current it wants to draw (up to the value the source is able to supply while still delivering the required voltage). It is perfectly safe to charge your Spartan on an old 500mA USB source, a 1A source or a 2.1A source. There is charging circuitry between the source and the internal battery to regulate. Again, like most mobile phones, you'll notice it slows its charging right down (ie, draws a much lower current) as it approaches 100%.


You don't have to trust me. You can convince yourself that things are not quite "as nominal as they should". Plug your phone to a 3A source and try to operate the touch screen. You will notice it responds in an erratic way to the extent you cannot even consistently enter a phone number. There is a difference between what the nominal specs say and what actually happens. The worse the quality, the more difference there can be. Typically battery packs less risky then wall outlet chargers or computer ports. But I just keep the habit of not going over 1A. Just because.


----------



## Unperson

Lets try to take this electricity discussion away from the watches to make this a bit clearer. 

The wall sockets in the average European home connect to a power source that can supply 16 amps at 230 volts. Do you worry about plugging in your 100 watt TV to your wall socket? Most people probably never even think about it, and there's no need to. Yet that TV will draw only about 0.5 amps at that current. Another analogy: see amps as a well with a water supply, no matter how big the supply is, if you only draw water from it one bucket at a time you will not damage the bucket.

So again, hooking up your USB charger for whatever device you charge with it is fine as long as is correctly outputs the 5v, it doesn't matter if it's capable of supplying 1, 2 or 20 amps. The Spartan's circuitry determines how much current it will draw, or in other words, how big a bucket it uses.

If this is still confusing (and it can be) spend some time on wikipedia, or a forum more dedicated to electricity discussions


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Unperson said:


> Do you worry about plugging in your 100 watt TV to your wall socket? Most people probably never even think about it, and there's no need to. Yet that TV will draw only about 0.5 amps at that current.
> 
> So again, hooking up your USB charger for whatever device you charge with it is fine as long as is correctly outputs the 5v, it doesn't matter if it's capable of supplying 1, 2 or 20 amps.
> 
> If this is still confusing (and it can be) spend some time on wikipedia, or a forum more dedicated to electricity discussions


You are missing the point. This is not about what it should be (as described on your wiki links). This is about the quality of the sources/batteries that are actually found in the market. And in specific involving whatever attention was put on this while the Spartan was designed. So it is perfectly expected for this discussion to be happening here. Especially given that no charger is included with the Spartan. Also, a TV set has plenty of PB real estate to spread out a massive regulation circuitry. Mobile devices have way less real estate to dedicated to that. It could be that in 5 years from now we can trust these tiny converters/regulators more. But right now I would not generally suggest doing that just yet.


----------



## petem99

PTBC said:


> (declination is still being screwed up)


Yes it certainly is. I had both the watch and Movescount set to 1 degree west, and after the firmware update it's now set to 57.3 degrees east on the watch but Movescount hasn't changed (still on 1 degree west). So something is clearly still wrong with that mechanism. Not sure yet whether it's caused by the sync that happened at the same time, or by the firmware update itself, but i'm guessing it's the firmware update because the declination was ok on both the watch and Movescount through several syncs before that.


----------



## IronP

petem99 said:


> Yes it certainly is. I had both the watch and Movescount set to 1 degree west, and after the firmware update it's now set to 57.3 degrees east on the watch but Movescount hasn't changed (still on 1 degree west). So something is clearly still wrong with that mechanism. Not sure yet whether it's caused by the sync that happened at the same time, or by the firmware update itself, but i'm guessing it's the firmware update because the declination was ok on both the watch and Movescount through several syncs before that.


I am wondering why we shall set the declination manually....should not be automatically based on the gps location? Am I missing something...?


----------



## XCJagge

IronP said:


> I am wondering why we shall set the declination manually....should not be automatically based on the gps location? Am I missing something...?


Watch knows your location but it does not know the type of paper map you have at hand. Sometimes north lines are pointing to true north, sometimes to grid north (but you are not on center meridian) and sometimes map's north lines are aligned to magnetic north.


----------



## IronP

Point taken...thanks for the explanation...XCJagge!


----------



## Joakim Agren

XCJagge said:


> Watch knows your location but it does not know the type of paper map you have at hand. Sometimes north lines are pointing to true north, sometimes to grid north (but you are not on center meridian) and sometimes map's north lines are aligned to magnetic north.


Of course manual declination setting should still be left as an option for map navigation purposes. But if you just want an easy experience were the compass points to true north then automatic GPS assisted declination setting is definitely something I would want. My old Suunto X10 have such a automatic function. But strangely it was never implemented in the Ambit line and now is also missing from the new Spartan! Strange that an old "dinosaur GPS watch" have some functions that is missing from more modern tech. Other fun stuff the old X10 had that was missing in the Ambit and now also Spartan line up was a positions sub menu. In there you would get raw GPS data such as coordinates, number of satellites in view and number of locked satellites. The Estimate Probable Error, EPE value (really valuable to evaluate the quality of your GPS connection) showing deviation in meters and also that sub menu had GPS altitude value as well. I really miss that function in both my Ambit 2 and fenix 3 watches. Will we ever see it in Spartan Ultra? Somehow doubt it...


----------



## fotomas

If anyone still is interested in GPS accuracy.

Did a two lap run om a 9 km course today. SSU and A3P on each arm.

SSU does pretty well out in the open, but sometimes it gets confused even without any trees.

SSU:
exeton's 1:43 h Running Move
(Check it with google atelite maps and in the forest areas, you can see the trail and how much off SSU actually is)

A3P:
exeton's 1:39 h Running Move


----------



## rdm01

Is somebody else having problems with Strava sync during this weekend?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## j--l

Yes, there were some changes to Strava integration on MC and now Spartan is not regocnized anymore in Strava. This cause the elevation to be wrong and also seems to cause delay of the data to appear on Strava.


----------



## Larry115

Check out this open water GPS track from my Suunto Spartan ultra...is this to be expected or is it as bad as it looks? My fenix3 hr was bad, but never looked this bad....


----------



## crawler2040

rdm01 said:


> Is somebody else having problems with Strava sync during this weekend?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Hi Im in argentina local rime now is 23 34 pm , did 2 moves today and none synched to Strava 2 days ago same issue. I uploaded manually two days ago but the ascent value was wrong like 150 meters less.

Enviado desde mi GT-P5100 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

fotomas said:


> SSU does pretty well out in the open, but sometimes it gets confused even without any trees.


Getting confused is the case I'm seeing, in areas I expected it to struggle (cut along a narrow trail thats ovehung with low foliage and taller trees around) it tracked ok, then entering the next section involving a service road and parking areas (so lots of open sky), it totally lost me for a while. The track put even me in the river which given I was at least 50m elevation above the river was totally out, unless someones moved the suspension bridge. Thats 2 tracks in a row where it just seems to have gotten totally confused at some point and not always in the toughest section.


----------



## johan6504

PTBC said:


> Getting confused is the case I'm seeing, in areas I expected it to struggle (cut along a narrow trail thats ovehung with low foliage and taller trees around) it tracked ok, then entering the next section involving a service road and parking areas (so lots of open sky), it totally lost me for a while. The track put even me in the river which given I was at least 50m elevation above the river was totally out, unless someones moved the suspension bridge. Thats 2 tracks in a row where it just seems to have gotten totally confused at some point and not always in the toughest section.


My watch has done the exact same every single time. It doesn't always seem to be the "toughest" sections that are the main problem... My watch is in for repair in Finland, hopefully back later this week.


----------



## NickSwe

Had a similar experience as Paulchen4711 this weekend. Competed in a HM and had the Watch ready to start. Race started and pressed the starting button. Nothing happend!!! Very annoying. Had to make a 12 sec restart and not until then I could start the Watch. Missed the first couple of minutes and could not focus on settling a good pace! Frustrating!!

Used the latest firmware 1.1.30
Nick



Paulchen4711 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I know that we all have to wait until the new firmware comes out. However, i've to tell you my today's experience with the SSU using it for the very first time within a competition. To remind everybody - especially people from Suunto. I bought a SSU all black titanium HR for 799 Euro (!!!).
> 
> Today I participated in a HM - competition, and yes - I had very ambitious targets. I was standing at the starting line, having my SSU ready. The GPS logo was filled, same as my HR logo. I just needed to press start at the starting line. The starting shot came and I pressed the starting button. And - what happened??? Nothing. The watch said "Starting the exercise..." or "waiting to start the exercise" or something like that (of course it was in german). I ran 400 m, 800 m - and nothing happened. I was so p**** off, wearing a useless 800 Euro device. After 1,5 km I decided to restart the watch (pressing one of the buttons more than 12 seconds). Everybody who is doing competitions can imagine how this feels if you really have to concentrate on the f**** watch instead of concentrating on your run. After the restart my beloved device was unable to find a satellite - as I was apparently moving a bit to fast. So after another 1,5 km I decided to start the exercise without gps functionality to at least see my current heart-frequency. With this I finished the HM. Thanks to Suunto without any precise information in the course of the competition.
> 
> People from Suunto - thank you very much.
> 
> BR Paulchen


----------



## IronP

Makes me nervous thinking that I cannot trust the SSU for my next race!
Hope that you guys reported this issue to the customer support?
Just for curiosity....how long that you stayed with the SSU ready to start? (Sport menu activated before you hit the start button). Let me know, will try to reproduce it with mine.


----------



## FryeX

It is quite annoying. There is a huge (few seconds) lag after pressing the start exercise and the logging actually starting in SSU. There is no way to start the activity spot on, except with pure luck. Frustrating as it works _every_ time with Fenix3 HR. Not a smallest gap between pressing start and the logging starting.


----------



## IronP

Larry115 said:


> Check out this open water GPS track from my Suunto Spartan ultra...is this to be expected or is it as bad as it looks? My fenix3 hr was bad, but never looked this bad....
> View attachment 9327746
> View attachment 9327746


Yes, I am having the same effect after the update!
before the update the swim route was much smoother! (1st pic before update "1.1.24" and 2nd after the update "1.1.30")













The watch seems to have some trouble in the starting point as well after the update...


----------



## NickSwe

IronP said:


> Makes me nervous thinking that I cannot trust the SSU for my next race!
> Hope that you guys reported this issue to the customer support?
> Just for curiosity....how long that you stayed with the SSU ready to start? (Sport menu activated before you hit the start button). Let me know, will try to reproduce it with mine.


Reported to Suunto but I haven't Heard anything yet. I had it in "idling, ready to start" mode for approx 10 minutes during warm up. 
Strangely enough I also had a few HR spikes during the run which I never had on my Ambit3.


----------



## Ingo

NickSwe said:


> Had a similar experience as Paulchen4711 this weekend. Competed in a HM and had the Watch ready to start. Race started and pressed the starting button. Nothing happend!!! Very annoying. Had to make a 12 sec restart and not until then I could start the Watch. Missed the first couple of minutes and could not focus on settling a good pace! Frustrating!!
> 
> Used the latest firmware 1.1.30
> Nick


For that you need to buy the Spartan HM mate. They called it the "Ultra" because a couple of lost minutes in an ultra are no big deal usually. Btw, why are so many here racing a half marathon wearing a 73g "tank" of a watch anyway? I'd just wear the lightest and possibly oldest stop watch I can find lying around - oh, but then I don't get the Strava miles credited, do I? ;-)


----------



## Pegasus

It's all been pretty poor so far, I'm getting lots of lag on mine too just moving through screens etc. It was definitely released far to early, so many bugs and things missing.

The lag is so much that some of the icons superimpose others when changing. Some pixels remain white even when moved to a black screen. Probably be going to Suunto for a check if new software at end September doesn't change it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ixman

I concur. The GPS is awful. Went for yet another run with my replacement SSU and surprise...is just as bad as my first one. Based on the tracked data I was actually swimming for a while and then I was Spider Man too jumping off homes :think: 
The weather was perfect, no clouds, no trees... This one has a G2 serial number. I give up.


----------



## petem99

Pegasus said:


> It's all been pretty poor so far, I'm getting lots of lag on mine too just moving through screens etc. It was definitely released far to early, so many bugs and things missing.
> 
> The lag is so much that some of the icons superimpose others when changing. Some pixels remain white even when moved to a black screen. Probably be going to Suunto for a check if new software at end September doesn't change it.


That's interesting, I know other people are getting lag too, but my watch is fine and there is very little lag either before or after the firmware update. Similarly I have no pixels doing odd things and I get pretty good GPS tracks, which I've been assuming is because they're all on a mountain bike and the higher speed usually seems to give you better tracks anyway, but looking at the odd results some people are getting where it seems to just lose track altogether for a while, I think if I had that problem it would show up in the tracks even on a mountain bike. Also I get battery life which is pretty much exactly what Suunto specify on their web site, no excessive usage so far.

I know some other people are also saying they don't see most of these problems, so it does look like either there is something different in the configuration for the people who do (maybe where the watch is worn/mounted, whether it's being used for notifications, whether Discovery is on, etc), or maybe there are just some bad batches of SSU out there that need to be repaired or replaced.

For reference, mine is G2 hardware and was bought on 18th August so it may well not be in the first batch that were manufactured, but I'm not sure that makes any difference as some G2 watches do seem to have problems. Also, on MTB rides it's always mounted face up on the handlebar, which may make a difference to how well the GPS antenna works compared to it being on the wrist or elsewhere.


----------



## Pegasus

petem99 said:


> That's interesting, I know other people are getting lag too, but my watch is fine and there is very little lag either before or after the firmware update. Similarly I have no pixels doing odd things and I get pretty good GPS tracks, which I've been assuming is because they're all on a mountain bike and the higher speed usually seems to give you better tracks anyway, but looking at the odd results some people are getting where it seems to just lose track altogether for a while, I think if I had that problem it would show up in the tracks even on a mountain bike. Also I get battery life which is pretty much exactly what Suunto specify on their web site, no excessive usage so far.
> 
> I know some other people are also saying they don't see most of these problems, so it does look like either there is something different in the configuration for the people who do (maybe where the watch is worn/mounted, whether it's being used for notifications, whether Discovery is on, etc), or maybe there are just some bad batches of SSU out there that need to be repaired or replaced.
> 
> For reference, mine is G2 hardware and was bought on 18th August so it may well not be in the first batch that were manufactured, but I'm not sure that makes any difference as some G2 watches do seem to have problems. Also, on MTB rides it's always mounted face up on the handlebar, which may make a difference to how well the GPS antenna works compared to it being on the wrist or elsewhere.


Yes there definitely seems quite a divide in terms of watches being accurate or being all over the place.

Is there any way to put the watch back to factory and start again? So all data is wiped and firmware put back to original?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

petem99 said:


> I know some other people are also saying they don't see most of these problems, so it does look like either there is something different in the configuration for the people who do (maybe where the watch is worn/mounted, whether it's being used for notifications, whether Discovery is on, etc), or maybe there are just some bad batches of SSU out there that need to be repaired or replaced.
> 
> For reference, mine is G2 hardware and was bought on 18th August


Yeah, I don't have any issues that I would post on a public forum right now. GPS is awesome. Battery life, check. Swim, bike, run, strength training, all being logged on the Spartan. The issues I do have I just report to Suunto. Still check this thread for anyone in need of help and PM them. And on the Q&A pages within the Suunto webpage. I got Hardware G1, I'm pretty impressed and hope Suunto doesn't change the Spartan "too much" on future updates  looking forward to alarms, sport mode fields configuration, and MC goodness. Cheers!


----------



## Nicholas2

Works pretty well for me too. I've clocked up a few km running since receiving the Spartan - on road, trails, etc. No weird accuracy issues. I have G1 version.


----------



## Pegasus

I have a G2 version, my tracks especially hiking are very jagged, like I've been drinking heavily and staggered along the route.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> GPS is awesome.


Care to share some of the awesome tracks? So far I have only seen mediocre at best. Even in very easy GPS conditions. Would be nice to have some hope of better


----------



## bryanredneck27

LONG_HAUL said:


> Yeah, I don't have any issues that I would post on a public forum right now. GPS is awesome. Battery life, check. Swim, bike, run, strength training, all being logged on the Spartan. The issues I do have I just report to Suunto. Still check this thread for anyone in need of help and PM them. And on the Q&A pages within the Suunto webpage. I got Hardware G1, I'm pretty impressed and hope Suunto doesn't change the Spartan "too much" on future updates  looking forward to alarms, sport mode fields configuration, and MC goodness. Cheers!


Alarms??? Would be good... But I think it will be alarm (singular)


----------



## edit0r

Many weeks ago I commented on how Suunto will solve some bugs but will introduce others... and of course, understandable, no one liked my assumption.... everyone was saying that Suunto does a good job of testing very good the firmware before releasing it... Unfortunately... I was right... again...

My watch have insane lag when waking up from sleep... like 3 seconds lag... so 1 push of a button... 3 seconds doing nothing... then bam... moved 1 screen...

I am upset with the Spartan performance so far... apart from the GPS that was good for me for the most part (minus some random small quirks)... encountered so many bugs and bad performance that for the last 2 weeks is more a decorative item on my desk.

This Spartan is my first Suunto, I am sorry Suunto fans but this watch was not a good experience for me so far. I get that you love the brand because of it's great watches and stable firmware but with this one they are behaving the opposite.


----------



## rdm01

FryeX said:


> It is quite annoying. There is a huge (few seconds) lag after pressing the start exercise and the logging actually starting in SSU. There is no way to start the activity spot on, except with pure luck. Frustrating as it works _every_ time with Fenix3 HR. Not a smallest gap between pressing start and the logging starting.


I think you're wrong mate. The activity recording starts when you press the start button but first 2 seconds or so the screen keeps showing the starting message.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## FryeX

rdm01 said:


> I think you're wrong mate. The activity recording starts when you press the start button but first 2 seconds or so the screen keeps showing the starting message.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I'm sorry but I'm not wrong. I have tested this several times. Currently when I start activity I hit the start button on Spartan, then hit it on F3HR and after I compare the watches the duration on F3HR is always 2+ seconds ahead (eg. 4sec on F3HR and 2 on Spartan). Although I gave Spartan a head start every time. If what you said is true it should be other way around.


----------



## gousias

bryanredneck27 said:


> Alarms??? Would be good... But I think it will be alarm (singular)


Alarms would be the best to see! Storm alarm, tide alarm, moonrise/moonset alarm etc. Maybe I have repeated this, but please SUUNTO understand that it is also a watch referring to outdoor adventure!


----------



## FryeX

Here is a picture of the training modes. Spartan was started first and then Fenix3 HR. Just to verify that I am not dreaming here.


----------



## bluelee333633

gousias said:


> Alarms would be the best to see! Storm alarm, tide alarm, moonrise/moonset alarm etc. Maybe I have repeated this, but please SUUNTO understand that it is also a watch referring to outdoor adventure!


totally agree

从我的 iPad 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## Larry115

Frustrating because it has me swimming over land. Also, with all the zig zagging that it shows I'm wondering if the watch is counting that and therefore my total distance and related data are not correct. My watch indicated we had swam 4.40 miles. My friends were surprised and not certain if that was totally accurate...makes me want to send it back and try something else.....may a Fenix 4 when that hits the market


----------



## bluelee333633

Larry115 said:


> Frustrating because it has me swimming over land. Also, with all the zig zagging that it shows I'm wondering if the watch is counting that and therefore my total distance and related data are not correct. My watch indicated we had swam 4.40 miles. My friends were surprised and not certain if that was totally accurate...makes me want to send it back and try something else.....may a Fenix 4 when that hits the market


i used fenix3 and ambit 3 peak when open water swimming. gps data always like this. gps signal will not transfer into the water . so i can live with this zig-zag.

从我的 iPad 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Updated iphone app available, release notes say

Improved Spartan sync
Fixed energy consumption bug
Fixed issues Ambit3 and Traverse sync with POI

Wonder if the energy consumption bug is related to syncing/communication with watch which would also affect watch battery life?


----------



## PTBC

edit0r said:


> My watch have insane lag when waking up from sleep... like 3 seconds lag... so 1 push of a button... 3 seconds doing nothing... then bam... moved 1 screen...


I have the same thing (and seems worse since update), between that and the slow transition back to the top level menu (2 to 3 secs of blank screen) I have been wondering if there's some problem relating to caching, either lack of resources available or coding such that it's have to reload modules rather than have them cached in system memory and ready to use. system resources issues could also possibly explain some of the spiky data points and drop outs people have experienced on longer moves. Given the price I'm not holding my breath for a tear down to see whats inside any time soon, does anyone even know how much memory it has for storing moves yet?

Edit-I'm not a coder (though maybe some on here that are may like to comment), but have worked with development teams in the past so it's more a general comment than an knowledgeable opinion


----------



## PTBC

Cut along a side trail, total tree coverage and overgrown and track looks good roughly between marked trail and road, through to picking the service road back up








Out onto service road open trail with some stairs and through the parking loop (clear sky above and a couple of open clearings )and it's way off


----------



## RandM

I have not read the several hundred posts but has someone pointed out that when you run past ten miles the watch starts measuring your distance in tenths of a mile instead of hundredths. Put another way you lose the second number to the right of the decimal.


----------



## martowl

RandM said:


> I have not read the several hundred posts but has someone pointed out that when you run past ten miles the watch starts measuring your distance in tenths of a mile instead of hundredths. Put another way you lose the second number to the right of the decimal.


Similar to the Ambit, when the numbers get bigger, the precision drops.


----------



## igobec

Hi folks,

Have you noticed that setting the watch on "plane mode" the lags when pushing the buttons are reduced almost to zero? The performance of the watch is strongly improved when switching off the bluetooth connection, at least on my case.


----------



## gousias

But should such notices be acceptable, meaning that all functions in this way should be in a theoretical list and not in true??? What I mean in a simple way is that the functions are given to be on a full work if someone would desire so! Now if the company (any company) cannot give a full functional product, then someone could talk about fraud... perhaps?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> Similar to the Ambit, when the numbers get bigger, the precision drops.


Correct. I think that's a common feature for more recent sports watches across many brands. It facilitates visualization by limiting the number of digits displayed. Internally the precision doesn't change.


----------



## d2i23

Has anyone managed to start a planned move on spartan. I can plan a move on movescount website, but I can't seem to find a way to start one one the watch. Or maybe planned moves will be implemented at a later day?


----------



## rdm01

Hi guys! After updating to fw 1.1.30 I having worse GPS distances in challenging areas. I reported to Suunto just now attaching some moves pre and post fw update as evidences. Somebody else who had good GPS distance with 1.1.24 having now worse distance measures? I'm talking about 600~500 m shorter distances in a well known 10 km trail running... :-( 

deporteporvida.com


----------



## jeremy1271

@rdm01: I'm in the same situation but I can't tell for sure about the conclusions. Yesterday I went for a trail running where I usually train, but not on the same exact circuit training. The GPS wasn't too bad (but not as good as my A3P) but back home, I was very surprised about my low pace compared with what I did those last weeks. So....it could be me or the SSU.


----------



## darkshait

rdm01 said:


> Hi guys! After updating to fw 1.1.30 I having worse GPS distances in challenging areas. I reported to Suunto just now attaching some moves pre and post fw update as evidences. Somebody else who had good GPS distance with 1.1.24 having now worse distance measures? I'm talking about 600~500 m shorter distances in a well known 10 km trail running... :-(
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Buenas!

I have the same behaviour since I updated to 1.1.30

I always run with my iPhone 5s and both devices measured the same distance until I updated to 1.1.30

Since then the Suunto measures shorter runs than the iphone


----------



## jeremy1271

I have found the explanation for my part. After an examination of the track, I realised it was full of misplaced parts of the track, and corner cuts. Once I edited the GPX file to fit the real path, my run went from 11,5 km to 12,2 km. Conclusion: at this moment I can't rely on the SSU for any training, thank god I didn't sold my A3P. Conclusion 2: according to that new pace, I'm still in good shape 

Edit: Once before this last FW update, I ran both with the A3P and the SSU and the recorded distance was the same, so, there must be something's wrong with the GPS accuracy and the FW 1.1.30


----------



## gVVG

I made the following observation during the last days, independently from SW version:

14.2k run, SSU worn on my right hand:














Same track, but another day, 14.2 km run, SSU worn again on my right hand:














Same track, but again another day, 14.2 km run, SSU worn on my left hand:














Same track, but a different day, 17.0 km run (+1 lap), SSU worn again on my left hand:














All runs in the late afternoon or evening. Interestingly, when I worn SSU on my right hand (normally I wear on my left), the watch showed 14.11 and 14.14 km vs. the 14.1-14.2 km reality. When it was on my left it showed 13.96 km vs. the 14.1-14.2 km reality and 16.70 km vs. the 16.9-17.0 km reality. It is not such a big difference, but quite repeatable (i have other moves as well).

But what is much more annoying is the cadence plot...... although not perfect on my right hand, but significantly better than on my left....what are those f.....ing interrutpions????

And, even if the GPS is set to best, the graph shows data points only in every 5 seconds in Movescount. Is this normal?
Not to mention that battery consumption is typically 12% for a 70-75 min. run and 15% for a 90 min run without HRM. Obviously will never reach the 18 hours.....
Not to mention the comletely false altitude data....

Any of you have the same experience? Any idea?

Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## jeremy1271

The only things I can tell you about this is: I didn't have any problem with cadence, I have never tried my SSU on the right hand and yes, the altitude is wrong but the total ascend / descend seems to be correct.


----------



## bluelee333633

ambit 3 peak with swimming workout syncing problem

I update the movescount app in my iphone. tonight i swam 1000m. the swimming data like swolf and stroke type and stroke per length data are missing when the workout sync to the phone.

i download the workout XLSX file and compared with previews swimming data：the swolf stroke type stroke per length data are really missing（at first i thought it was the website display problem）

so i did another 500m swimming. and sync my watch via moveslink2（not updated to the newest）. all the swimming data are showed in the website.

now i update my moveslinke to the newest. also all the swimming data sync successfully to the website.

does anyone have the same problem ？


从我的 iPad 发送，使用 Tapatalk


从我的 iPad 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## CARLOS MLM

Buenas tardes, comentar que a mi me pasa lo mismo con el gps, además de la poca precisión en los tracs (muy inestables en comparación con A3 y A2), las distancias que me marca son muy inferiores. Tengo Movescount conectado con Strava y las diferencias en la distancia son las siguientes: En ciudad 10 Km en SSU son 9,8 y 9,7 Km en Strava; En campo a cielo abierto sin bosque 8 Km. en SSU son 7,9 Km. en Strava y 12 Km en SSU son 11,5 Km en Strava. En cuanto a la natación y a diferencia de lo que le está sucediendo al resto después de la actualizacion a fw 1.1.30 tengo peores mediciones (distancia inferior a la realizada 1475 m. en lugar de 1600 m realizados de verdad).


----------



## oli70

gps accuracy also for me not as good as with older firmware (1.1.24). i hope they realise and fix this problem. i know the hw can do it better. the rest, like battery and performance are ok for me.


----------



## gVVG

jeremy1271 said:


> The only things I can tell you about this is: I didn't have any problem with cadence, I have never tried my SSU on the right hand and yes, the altitude is wrong but the total ascend / descend seems to be correct.


Good for you 
The reason why I tried on my right is that I wore the predecessor Polar V800 on my left, as usual. And later when I wore only SSU, obviously on my left, I realized the difference and counter-checked by wearing again on my right.
Ascent/descent is also totally bad for me..... Varying from +80 m to +150 m on an almost competely flat track.... it should be around +20+25m...


----------



## BystrousT

Who else has synchronization problems after firmware update? With new version of FW I cant transfer any moves from SSU through Movescount mobile app (latest version), but also per cable I cant do synchronization. No synchronization!! F... that watches!


----------



## FryeX

It's funny how there is only praise about the perfect GPS tracks here, but no real tracks visible. I did a final speed training today before Half marathon this Saturday. F3HR was pretty much spot on today. SSU tracked me running on the opposite side of the road in the forest for my 1k pickups. If someone wants to compare the tracks I'll share the link via pm as I cannot yet post links here. Would be really nice to see a spotless track from SSU to gain some faith that it'll be fixed eventually. As I like the watch otherwise.


----------



## Simurgh

Here is the comparison between Suunto Spartan Sport (orange) vs Garmin Forerunner 630.

Neither are perfect, but FR630 did overall better. There were a few places where SSS lost it quite a bit.


----------



## bruceames

Geez what a mess.


----------



## zvojan

Guy from few post back was correct. SSU record significantly less points than A3P. Both watches were best gps mode. You can see picture below from same move (40min) with both watches.


----------



## bruceames

Recording fewer points makes the track look worse than it otherwise would be (especially around curves) and will make it appear that the difference in GPS quality is more than what it actually is. In a way it's comparing apples to oranges. 

I have no idea why Suunto reverted to having fewer points recorded. It's like it was with the Ambit2. I would think the SSU has plenty of memory for more points? They should know that people will be comparing it with the A3P tracks, which are generally every second running and every 2 seconds hiking. And they also know the A3P has a larger antenna. So this only makes the GPS reception look worse, which is the last thing they need if they want to convince fans that a bezel antenna is adequate.


----------



## jimmysalvo

bruceames said:


> Recording fewer points makes the track look worse than it otherwise would be (especially around curves) and will make it appear that the difference in GPS quality is more than what it actually is. In a way it's comparing apples to oranges.
> 
> I have no idea why Suunto reverted to having fewer points recorded. It's like it was with the Ambit2. I would think the SSU has plenty of memory for more points? They should know that people will be comparing it with the A3P tracks, which are generally every second running and every 2 seconds hiking. And they also know the A3P has a larger antenna. So this only makes the GPS reception look worse, which is the last thing they need if they want to convince fans that a bezel antenna is adequate.


It may be to save battery life


----------



## oli70

In my case the watch saved yesterday 1699 rows of positioning data for a 40 min. run. watch set to best mode. just export move as gpx and count the data in an editor, e.g. ultraedit. ergo: the watch stored more or less every second...


----------



## zvojan

oli70 said:


> In my case the watch saved yesterday 1699 rows of positioning data for a 40 min. run. watch set to best mode. just export move as gpx and count the data in an editor, e.g. ultraedit. ergo: the watch stored more or less every second...


Oh yes. But probably with R*unning basic. *Am i right? Surely not with T*rail running basic. *I have noticed much more recorded points with Running basic than with Trail running basic also. but still not every second.


----------



## oli70

Yes, with running basic... good to know theres a difference between types of moves....hmmm. maybe the watch has more to compute with trailrunning and so suunto decided to reduce the amount of data?


----------



## rdm01

zvojan said:


> Oh yes. But probably with R*unning basic. *Am i right? Surely not with T*rail running basic. *I have noticed much more recorded points with Running basic than with Trail running basic also. but still not every second.


I have exported some moves to gpx files and looks like the sampling rate is variable. I mean sometimes data are recorded every second and sometimes up to 5 seconds between points... Maybe it's an optimized way to do it.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## oli70

yes, it seems that sampling frequence changes sporadic. looks like a bug for me....


----------



## capcav73

Did some of you try to run or trail with VTT sport mode or another cycling mode ?
Maybe these sport modes are better configured (for now) for running activities.


----------



## edit0r

On the battery issues today I got this :

"Please accept our apologies for the delay in getting back to you.
We have reforwarded your case to our colleagues in the Suunto Spartan team. After describing the situation, they concluded that the best solution at the moment would be to send the watch to service for examination. The behavior you described is indeed irregular, but we can only determine the source of the malfunction by having it examined by a technician.

Thank you for understanding"

It's upsetting on so many levels because :

1. I already exchanged 1 watch and the second behaves EXACTLY the same as the first one
2. The 1st Spartan was sent to Suunto Service Finland for inspection - so they have a test watch for my issue
3. I explained in great detail the battery meter issue so It could be easy to replicate - and I mean GREAT DETAIL
4. After 1 week this is the only thing that they could tell me about the issue... service... again?!?!

I love the watch but It has too many problems... tired of the beta testing and the fact the no one takes me seriously at Suunto support


----------



## Pegasus

edit0r said:


> On the battery issues today I got this :
> 
> "Please accept our apologies for the delay in getting back to you.
> We have reforwarded your case to our colleagues in the Suunto Spartan team. After describing the situation, they concluded that the best solution at the moment would be to send the watch to service for examination. The behavior you described is indeed irregular, but we can only determine the source of the malfunction by having it examined by a technician.
> 
> Thank you for understanding"
> 
> It's upsetting on so many levels because :
> 
> 1. I already exchanged 1 watch and the second behaves EXACTLY the same as the first one
> 2. The 1st Spartan was sent to Suunto Service Finland for inspection - so they have a test watch for my issue
> 3. I explained in great detail the battery meter issue so It could be easy to replicate - and I mean GREAT DETAIL
> 4. After 1 week this is the only thing that they could tell me about the issue... service... again?!?!
> 
> I love the watch but It has too many problems... tired of the beta testing and the fact the no one takes me seriously at Suunto support


It's not right on a watch of this value to have to keep sending it in so soon after purchase. Not really sure where this watch is going to end up functionally, they need to get it sorted quick as it's putting a lot of people off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edit0r

I am upset that no one At Suunto seems to be able to take 2-3-5-10 watches out of the box, replicate my test scenario and come up with some answers

1. is it hardware?
2. is it poor battery quality?
3. is it a design problem?
4. is it a firmware problem?
5. the problem seem to be limited on some batches only ?
6. what serial numbers are affected?

It's been 2 weeks now... pushing emails... with no real answer from them...


----------



## Pegasus

edit0r said:


> I am upset that no one At Suunto seems to be able to take 2-3-5-10 watches out of the box, replicate my test scenario and come up with some answers
> 
> 1. is it hardware?
> 2. is it poor battery quality?
> 3. is it a design problem?
> 4. is it a firmware problem?
> 5. the problem seem to be limited on some batches only ?
> 6. what serial numbers are affected?
> 
> It's been 2 weeks now... pushing emails... with no real answer from them...


Also why can't they just go for a run and see for themselves how random the gps track is? Not rocket science I wouldn't have thought.

I must be missing something.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BobMiles

I think their strategy right now is to delay everything until they push the end-of-september update. So you'll return your watch and maybe when you get the replacement, the update will fix things. 
Or break things even more, who knows... 
I should receive a watch for testing and suunto just doesn't ship it. Sure, they know it's barely usable right now and see their reputation at risk. At least what's left of it... 

Gesendet von meinem HUAWEI GRA-L09 mit Tapatalk


----------



## CARLOS MLM

El SSU tiene también errores en la temperatura marca siempre 2 º C más de la temperatura real. Comprobado en natación y en soporte de bicicleta sin influencia de temperatura corporal.


----------



## zvojan

Results from today. As far as I know we can not set recording interval, like on A3P, just Best, Good, Ok for GPS. Am I wrong?


----------



## bruceames

jimmysalvo said:


> It may be to save battery life


I don't know, the A3P records more points than the A2 and has longer battery life.


----------



## PTBC

Did some playing around with GPX files looking at time difference between points for a couple of moves before and after the firmware update, all had GPS set to best, initial summary as below


----------



## PTBC

time plot, x-axis is cumulative time, y-axis is time difference between consecutive points









Only a small sample, nothing conclusive, though firmware update hasn't seemed to have been an improvement

Edit-looking at the maps the spikes do seem to roughly line up with sections where the track is off from the expected path based on road/trail


----------



## rdm01

PTBC said:


> Did some playing around with GPX files looking at time difference between points for a couple of moves before and after the firmware update, all had GPS set to best, initial summary as below
> 
> View attachment 9357522


If we take as reference move2 (1.1.30) vs move3 (1.1.24) and assuming the bigger sample rate the best, it's clear the fw 1.1.24 is more accurate because more than 50% data points were recorded with a 2 or less per seconds.

That's exactly what I'm experiencing now when comparing the same trail running route pre and post update. I did 3 times the same 10 km route with fw 1.1.24 having 10.0 km to 10.1 km distances and now 3 times with fw 1.1.30 having 9.45 km to 9.6 km distances.

I reported sending the moves links as evidences yesterday.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## johan6504

I find this discussion about GPS sample rate somewhat strange. Suunto went to great length to describe how this should work and now it seems it doesnt work the way they told us...


----------



## jeremy1271

The web page "Suunto get stronger" for updates is offline at this moment ....

Edit: they changed the url


----------



## bruceames

johan6504 said:


> I find this discussion about GPS sample rate somewhat strange. Suunto went to great length to describe how this should work and now it seems it doesnt work the way they told us...
> 
> View attachment 9362338


What that graph conveys is the fix rate, not the rate at which points are stored in memory.


----------



## anto1980

http://www.suunto.com/it-IT/Personalizza-il-tuo-orologio/


----------



## Cyberbob13

anto1980 said:


> Personalizzazione del tuo orologio per lo sport Suunto


I guess this has nothing to do with SSU discussion here.

After having used the SSU for about 20 runs (on road and trail, challenging and less challenging conditions) I assume that the watch at least cumulates distance in a wrong way. For example, yesterday I ran a well-known course on road which I know is 11.7K in distance. The SSU reported only 11.1K - 600 meters less. One might assume that the lack of distance should be obvious from the track recording, but it is not. The track is quite good and there are no clear deviations from the path actual taken. The only explanation for me is that the watch cumulates distance in a wrong way.


----------



## anto1980

Sorry... I shared in wrong topic...


Cyberbob13 said:


> anto1980 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personalizzazione del tuo orologio per lo sport Suunto
> 
> 
> 
> I guess this has nothing to do with SSU discussion here.
> 
> After having used the SSU for about 20 runs (on road and trail, challenging and less challenging conditions) I assume that the watch at least cumulates distance in a wrong way. For example, yesterday I ran a well-known course on road which I know is 11.7K in distance. The SSU reported only 11.1K - 600 meters less. One might assume that the lack of distance should be obvious from the track recording, but it is not. The track is quite good and there are no clear deviations from the path actual taken. The only explanation for me is that the watch cumulates distance in a wrong way.
Click to expand...


----------



## raducanmihai

bruceames said:


> What that graph conveys is the fix rate, not the rate at which points are stored in memory.


Correct, but the setting "recording interval" set on 1 sec should result in recordings every 1 sec, not variable based on speed and who else knows what.


----------



## PTBC

raducanmihai said:


> Correct, but the setting "recording interval" set on 1 sec should result in recordings every 1 sec, not variable based on speed and who else knows what.


Given mentions of algorithms and GPS processing I assume the watch doesn't keep every data point, only those it considers 'good'


----------



## raducanmihai

Then it should be "variable, based on conditions", not "1 sec", isn't it? 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## FryeX

raducanmihai said:


> Then it should be "variable, based on conditions", not "1 sec", isn't it?


Yes it should.


----------



## bruceames

raducanmihai said:


> Correct, but the setting "recording interval" set on 1 sec should result in recordings every 1 sec, not variable based on speed and who else knows what.


It should, but it's not. It was that way with Ambit1 and the Suunto Trackpod. Those record a point every second no matter what (using 1 sec fix setting). But starting with the Ambit2 it does not record every second but instead bases the frequency on how fast you are going. The Ambit2 will record points every 3-5 seconds running and every 10-15 seconds walking (IIRC), and probably 1-2 seconds biking. If you stop, no points are recorded until you move again (which is actually a good thing because you won't get any "wandering" distance added to the total).

They improved on that with the Ambit3. Running/biking is almost always every second and hiking is every 3-5 seconds. Again, no points are recorded when stopped.

Now with the SSU they seem to have reverted to Ambit2 recording frequency, which frankly sucks. Therefore when comparing tracks it would be more apples to apples to use the Ambit2 rather than the Peak since the Peak track will look better just by virtue of it having recorded more points.


----------



## jimmysalvo

Ambit3 Vertical behaves more like Ambit2 / SSU


----------



## bruceames

jimmysalvo said:


> Ambit3 Vertical behaves more like Ambit2 / SSU


I don't have the Vertical, but from the tracks I've seen it appears that the recording rate is somewhere between the Ambit2 and A3P.


----------



## PTBC

I've seen comments about ability to charge the watch while in use, just wondering if you can do that what the presence of the magnetic charger will have on the device accuracy?


----------



## Pegasus

Anyone else notice that the vibration alert for notifications from the iPhone on the watch are almost imperceptible? I wear the watch quite tight and really feel nothing when an email comes in etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## francezzz

I have a little problem...My spartan doesn't send move to Movescount...somebody know why and what I can do?


----------



## rdm01

francezzz said:


> View attachment 9385482
> 
> 
> I have a little problem...My spartan doesn't send move to Movescount...somebody know why and what I can do?


Which kind of move? Swimming? Another one? They usually say reset the SSU by holding 12 seconds the upper button and release. Then try again.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Cyberbob13

Today I had a trail race with around 1600 meters of ascent. SSU reported almost 4000 Meters of ascent. This watch is an 800€ piece of crap ...


----------



## rdm01

Cyberbob13 said:


> Today I had a trail race with around 1600 meters of ascent. SSU reported almost 4000 Meters of ascent. This watch is an 800€ piece of crap ...


Can you share the link to the move?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## krazyeone

On strava?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## francezzz

rdm01 said:


> Which kind of move? Swimming? Another one? They usually say reset the SSU by holding 12 seconds the upper button and release. Then try again.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


One run

One Swimming

one mountain bike

ok I try to hold 12 sec and I let you know thanks !


----------



## francezzz

francezzz said:


> One run
> 
> One Swimming
> 
> one mountain bike
> 
> ok I try to hold 12 sec and I let you know thanks !


now it is ok! Thanks!!!!


----------



## rdm01

francezzz said:


> One run
> 
> One Swimming
> 
> one mountain bike
> 
> ok I try to hold 12 sec and I let you know thanks !


No one of them were uploaded? So call ASAP to Suunto's support!

deporteporvida.com


----------



## francezzz

rdm01 said:


> No one of them were uploaded? So call ASAP to Suunto's support!
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I did it brut it Wan vero Simple.. i online have Made The reset pressing 12 sec the upper botton off the SSU |>;-)


----------



## Cyberbob13

rdm01 said:


> Can you share the link to the move?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Here you go ...

Christian_Untermoser's 4:43 h Trail running Move

Maybe it was related to heavy rain during the event? Interestingly, the altitude profile on Movescount looks quite reasonable. Only cumulated ascent is way off ... hmmmm.

And particularly in the first part of the run the track is way, way off most of the time. When comparing other tracks of this particular race I realized that almost all devices struggled due to extreme conditions but the SSU clearly was the worst. I will not use it anymore until the next FW update. In case it does not work WAY better afterwards, I will get rid of it.


----------



## rdm01

Cyberbob13 said:


> Here you go ...
> 
> Christian_Untermoser's 4:43 h Trail running Move
> 
> Maybe it was related to heavy rain during the event? Interestingly, the altitude profile on Movescount looks quite reasonable. Only cumulated ascent is way off ... hmmmm.
> 
> And particularly in the first part of the run the track is way, way off most of the time. When comparing other tracks of this particular race I realized that almost all devices struggled due to extreme conditions but the SSU clearly was the worst. I will not use it anymore until the next FW update. In case it does not work WAY better afterwards, I will get rid of it.


I'm agree with your analysis. Looks like the cumulative asc/desc is wrong. The altitude profile looks reasonable. I think it could a good idea you reports it sending the move link as evidence

deporteporvida.com


----------



## IronP

After countless moves with my SSU starting without problems, yesterday I experienced the first time a big problem that some of you reported. By starting an activity, the watch freezes at "starting"....and no matter what you do, the watch does not respond anymore! Only a reset (12s upper button) could help!
In my case, it was a "indoor cycling" training session, but I can imagine if this s*** happens exactly at a starting point of a race! Specially on triathlon that you will be swimming with no time to play with the watch!!


----------



## rdm01

IronP said:


> After countless moves with my SSU starting without problems, yesterday I experienced the first time a big problem that some of you reported. By starting an activity, the watch freezes at "starting"....and no matter what you do, the watch does not respond anymore! Only a reset (12s upper button) could help!
> In my case, it was a "indoor cycling" training session, but I can imagine if this s*** happens exactly at a starting point of a race! Specially on triathlon that you will be swimming with no time to play with the watch!!


Out of curiosity do you think it could be a bluetooth-synching-during-the-start-of-the-activity related issue?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## IronP

rdm01 said:


> Out of curiosity do you think it could be a bluetooth-synching-during-the-start-of-the-activity related issue?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


yes, definetly I would link this issue to the bluetooth connectivity. At the starting point of my activity, I had a cadence sensor activated (wahoo) and the iPhone just nearby receiving some msgs, which I dismissed by pressing the middle button, however, when I started the activity, the watch freezed.
BTW...i am trying to report this issue to suunto, but through my ipad i am having trouble with the support form...can someone of you report it, please?


----------



## Jaka83

Cyberbob13 said:


> Here you go ...
> 
> Christian_Untermoser's 4:43 h Trail running Move
> 
> Maybe it was related to heavy rain during the event? Interestingly, the altitude profile on Movescount looks quite reasonable. Only cumulated ascent is way off ... hmmmm.
> 
> And particularly in the first part of the run the track is way, way off most of the time. When comparing other tracks of this particular race I realized that almost all devices struggled due to extreme conditions but the SSU clearly was the worst. I will not use it anymore until the next FW update. In case it does not work WAY better afterwards, I will get rid of it.


I took a quick look at the altitude profile and it looks like you did approx. 1000 m ascend and descend. The altitude profile looks OK (I've hiked in this part already).
Maybe the problem is just in data interpretation as it looks like the Suunto team is struggling with getting the right calculations done. For example right now you don't get the min. and max. altitude displayed in moves and a bunch of other data is missing too.
Let's hope they fix this soon as it's getting frustrating actually "downgrading" from an Ambit1.

Regarding BT sync issues ... I think the watch has problems with the BT radio too. It only happened to me once but it's annoying - the watch sometimes locks the heart rate at a constant value and just draws a flat line after that. You don't even notice it during the exercise if the mode you're in does not display heart rate data. Even if it does, it's hard to notice if you're not paying attention to it. It just locks up. A friend of mine had this happen to him on at least three moves now and it's pissing him off.
It happens totally random, sometimes after two hours, sometimes after three, four, just random and you see it after you come home and sync the move(s).

FIX THE BUGS SUUNTO AND MAKE THIS WATCH WORK AS IT SHOULD!


----------



## tinu80

Cyberbob13 said:


> Here you go ...
> 
> Christian_Untermoser's 4:43 h Trail running Move
> 
> Maybe it was related to heavy rain during the event? Interestingly, the altitude profile on Movescount looks quite reasonable. Only cumulated ascent is way off ... hmmmm.
> 
> And particularly in the first part of the run the track is way, way off most of the time. When comparing other tracks of this particular race I realized that almost all devices struggled due to extreme conditions but the SSU clearly was the worst. I will not use it anymore until the next FW update. In case it does not work WAY better afterwards, I will get rid of it.


Hi Christian,
Your graph of altitude shows extremely many small ups and downs, what probably caused the huge cumulated values. Seems like the barometric sensor isn't working properly?
My graphs of altitude are much smoother generally, for example:

tinu80's 3:26 h Trail running Move

GPS-wise i experience mostly acceptable tracks, but sometimes parts of tracks are a real mess... hope they fix it.


----------



## edit0r

Jaka83 said:


> .FIX THE BUGS SUUNTO AND MAKE THIS WATCH WORK AS IT SHOULD!


I am sure they will.... but you will have to wait quite some time... I am optimist and say 4-6 months....
In the meantime, please write to Suunto and complain of your bugs... also ask your friend to do the same...

*I returned the watch*... this watch is too buggy, had many issues with it and Suunto wasn't exactly helping me solve my problem quick and painful... 
If you are unlucky like me and you have the deal with the customer service you enter a world of pain... no matter the brand...

I opened up a lot of tickets, giving information on a lot of bugs but also asking for features and giving them ideas.... but unfortunately they are not very interested in ideas... One example was for a timer then the light was set on toggle... completely ignored... I was asking that much?

Good luck with your watches... I hope you will not end up in frustration beta testing the watch for the next months...


----------



## zvojan

Recorded points from A3P. Now I know why instant pace is much better on A3P 








Recorded points from SSU


----------



## IronP

edit0r said:


> I am sure they will.... but you will have to wait quite some time... I am optimist and say 4-6 months....
> In the meantime, please write to Suunto and complain of your bugs...


I like new gadgets, but suunto is playing kamikaze with this one! Indeed, I agree with you, at this pace and given the roadmap which suunto is publishing, it WILL take time to suunto clean this up! At least we are facing software trouble only and not like the polar v800 that they had software+hardware issues in the beginning...
Hope for the best...I will still keep the SSU, at least for the next big updates to see the progress....and if it is not satisfactory, I will put it on ebay...and go back to my A3P.


----------



## zvojan

Another one. Same track, same time, both watches.

Recorded points from A3P








Recorded points from SSU


----------



## tinu80

IronP said:


> I like new gadgets, but suunto is playing kamikaze with this one! Indeed, I agree with you, at this pace and given the roadmap which suunto is publishing, it WILL take time to suunto clean this up! At least we are facing software trouble only and not like the polar v800 that they had software+hardware issues in the beginning...
> Hope for the best...I will still keep the SSU, at least for the next big updates to see the progress....and if it is not satisfactory, I will put it on ebay...and go back to my A3P.


That's really the point... I think the hardware could be really good, but if it takes them 2 Months to implement an alarm clock??! I mean, whats going to be with all the really important improvements? So same for me: I will wait for the "big" update and if this isn't a huge step forward i will try to ged rid of it.


----------



## dbryan1970

Just used the Spartan Ultra in Chamonix over the last week and it was very disappointing to say the least. All the usual issues. Hugely disappointed by Suunto with this release. The watch is now back in the box for the near future, such a shame as nice hardware. When showing to friends the lag on the touchscreen is embarrassing. 
My biggest fear is that the touchscreen is demanding too much of the battery and that is what the Sunnto software engineers are struggling with. The battery life with little of the advertised functions falls short of what is advertised. The engineers will have test software in their labs running the watch with alarm, altimeter barometer graph, storm alarms etc and I bet that they drain the watch battery so much as to make it unusable and they are all wondering what to do, what to include and what to compromise. Shame.


----------



## rdm01

dbryan1970 said:


> Just used the Spartan Ultra in Chamonix over the last week and it was very disappointing to say the least. All the usual issues. Hugely disappointed by Suunto with this release. The watch is now back in the box for the near future, such a shame as nice hardware. When showing to friends the lag on the touchscreen is embarrassing.
> My biggest fear is that the touchscreen is demanding too much of the battery and that is what the Sunnto software engineers are struggling with. The battery life with little of the advertised functions falls short of what is advertised. The engineers will have test software in their labs running the watch with alarm, altimeter barometer graph, storm alarms etc and I bet that they drain the watch battery so much as to make it unusable and they are all wondering what to do, what to include and what to compromise. Shame.


Sorry but "all the usual issues"? Which ones? Looks like you're talking only about battery life. What happened with your SSU there?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## thyokel

This issue exist since beginning of the launch. You can try unplug and plug till it sync. Sometime I tried more than 10 times, sometime it sync after 1 try. The latest software and Suuntolink update didn't solve this issue.



francezzz said:


> I have a little problem...My spartan doesn't send move to Movescount...somebody know why and what I can do?


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Since my Spartan sport arrived:

Poor Mac connectivity. Multiple resets and re-installs just to get it to connect to Suuntolink and finally get it to link to my account. Now it is hit and miss whether it will sync via cable.

Poor BT connectivity. Need to restart iPhone app for it to connect and sync. Indoor swimming won't sync. Other moves before and after do. Notifications however are robust.

Poor GPS tracking. Worse than Traverse. Much worse than A2 & A3.

Screen lag and wake up time.

Battery life not as advertised. Using stopwatch will cause very quick discharge (? due to light use). Poor battery performance can be ameliorated by turning off backlight. In pool backlight keeps getting activated by water.

Recognition of screen taps is intermittent at best.

Awaiting improvement updates as everyone is........


----------



## tinu80

Do you guys experience screen lags also with the simple digital watch face?
I notice screen lags only with the analog watch face (the one with minute ticks)
Someone also mentioned higher battery drain in analog watch face.


----------



## edit0r

IronP said:


> I like new gadgets, but suunto is playing kamikaze with this one! Indeed, I agree with you, at this pace and given the roadmap which suunto is publishing, it WILL take time to suunto clean this up!


What bothers me is that we don't have a roadmap for the next year... to give us a reason to hang on to our watches.
I don't see how things will evolve, I don't have an insight on how this watch will mature... what will be the final feature set?
I would have liked to know what I am paying for because the current feature set is now worth what they are asking for the watch.

Given the state of the watch firmware and how slow things move I realized that I would better use a stable watch (from another brand) for the next 4-6 months and enjoy my workout then getting frustrating by the Spartan various bugs.

This was my first experience with Suunto and unfortunately it was bad.

I am really sorry that they went the Garmin way of doing business.


----------



## rdm01

Philip Onayeti said:


> Since my Spartan sport arrived:
> 
> Poor Mac connectivity. Multiple resets and re-installs just to get it to connect to Suuntolink and finally get it to link to my account. Now it is hit and miss whether it will sync via cable.
> 
> Poor BT connectivity. Need to restart iPhone app for it to connect and sync. Indoor swimming won't sync. Other moves before and after do. Notifications however are robust.
> 
> Poor GPS tracking. Worse than Traverse. Much worse than A2 & A3.
> 
> Screen lag and wake up time.
> 
> Battery life not as advertised. Using stopwatch will cause very quick discharge (? due to light use). Poor battery performance can be ameliorated by turning off backlight. In pool backlight keeps getting activated by water.
> 
> Recognition of screen taps is intermittent at best.
> 
> Awaiting improvement updates as everyone is........


My swimming workouts weren't being uploaded and after a force firmware reinstall they are. Of course I lost all the logbook so I manually created the swimming workouts at movescount.com before forcing the fw reinstall. Good luck!

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Ingo

Alright, page 195 and that's it for me. Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences with the SSU and having followed it all to this point I have finally pulled the trigger on a brand new Ambit 3 Peak Sapphire HR yesterday for the equivalent of 350.90 US$ from Wiggle including free shipping from the UK to Hong Kong.

I sensed I was onto something because the A3 is often out of stock so I put a "stock alert" on this item. Last time I got a notification about new stock it took only hours for the A3 to be sold out again so apparently people are snapping it up like there's no tomorrow. This time I managed to place and order within an hour after receiving the stock alert. Done!


----------



## edit0r

Ingo said:


> Alright, page 195 and that's it for me. Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences with the SSU and having followed it all to this point I have finally pulled the trigger on a brand new Ambit 3 Peak Sapphire HR yesterday for the equivalent of 350.90 US$ from Wiggle including free shipping from the UK to Hong Kong.
> 
> I sensed I was onto something because the A3 is often out of stock so I put a "stock alert" on this item. Last time I got a notification about new stock it took only hours for the A3 to be sold out again so apparently people are snapping it up like there's no tomorrow. This time I managed to place and order within an hour after receiving the stock alert. Done!


Well done Ingo, congratulations !
Anything is better right now compared to the Spartan and your choice is a great one!
Besides the fact that is a lot cheaper it's a mature watch, with great GPS performance and very stable firmware.

I returned to my old faithfull Polar V800 and to my Fenix 3 HR.

The funny thing is that when I got my Fenix 3 HR compared to the V800 it was really buggy..... but then I got the Spartan that was and is a lot worse overall... so It's always room for even a bigger disappointment.


----------



## Pegasus

The only thing it seems to do well so far is tell the time, which is pretty poor. Please read this thread Suunto.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cyberbob13

edit0r said:


> Well done Ingo, congratulations !
> Anything is better right now compared to the Spartan and your choice is a great one!
> Besides the fact that is a lot cheaper it's a mature watch, with great GPS performance and very stable firmware.
> 
> I returned to my old faithfull Polar V800 and to my Fenix 3 HR.
> 
> The funny thing is that when I got my Fenix 3 HR compared to the V800 it was really buggy..... but then I got the Spartan that was and is a lot worse overall... so It's always room for even a bigger disappointment.


100% agree. My SSU will be on ebay tomorrow. No more Suunto (after Ambit 1, 2 and 3). This watch was an extremely expensive disaster. Maybe sometimes it will be usable but what until then? I cannot even follow a structured workout or set HR zones for a particular workout. No interval training capability. No workable workout planning. Not even screen customization.

I could live with all the above and was aware that basic functionalities will be missing from the start - but what keeps me from further using this watch is the really poor GPS performance. Measuring distance and recording position is what HAS TO work right from the beginning. And it does not at all.

Christian


----------



## IronP

OMG!! Some guys from my company bought the apple watch 2.....!
Must say....great piece of engineering....! 
People started to laugh when we compared the watches....! Display and menus flow!!...had to hide the SSU!!
So people from suunto!! Just a tip....go and check what apple did with the their watch 2!!
(I know that they are different pieces of technology....but the difference is remarkable)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## petem99

tinu80 said:


> Do you guys experience screen lags also with the simple digital watch face?
> I notice screen lags only with the analog watch face (the one with minute ticks)
> Someone also mentioned higher battery drain in analog watch face.


I've said before that I wonder if the analog watch face is a higher drain on the battery, and if so maybe it can also make delays worse. I prefer the digital face anyway and that's what I've always used, and I get pretty much exactly the battery life that Suunto promise, both for activities and in time mode. I also don't have any noticeable lags when moving between screens, or when waking the watch up (which I've seen some people say can take a very long time). As mine is working pretty well overall right now for what I need I'm not going to risk messing around with it, but it might be interesting for someone who has delays and high battery use while on an analog watch face to try it on the digital one for a few days and see if there is any difference.


----------



## rdm01

Cyberbob13 said:


> 100% agree. My SSU will be on ebay tomorrow. No more Suunto (after Ambit 1, 2 and 3). This watch was an extremely expensive disaster. Maybe sometimes it will be usable but what until then? I cannot even follow a structured workout or set HR zones for a particular workout. No interval training capability. No workable workout planning. Not even screen customization.
> 
> I could live with all the above and was aware that basic functionalities will be missing from the start - but what keeps me from further using this watch is the really poor GPS performance. Measuring distance and recording position is what HAS TO work right from the beginning. And it does not at all.
> 
> Christian


What will be your choice now? V800? Back to A3? Garmin's one?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## PTBC

petem99 said:


> I've said before that I wonder if the analog watch face is a higher drain on the battery, and if so maybe it can also make delays worse. I prefer the digital face anyway and that's what I've always used, and I get pretty much exactly the battery life that Suunto promise, both for activities and in time mode. I also don't have any noticeable lags when moving between screens, or when waking the watch up (which I've seen some people say can take a very long time). As mine is working pretty well overall right now for what I need I'm not going to risk messing around with it, but it might be interesting for someone who has delays and high battery use while on an analog watch face to try it on the digital one for a few days and see if there is any difference.


Just tried the plain digital face, previously I had only used the blueish one which had an analog second hand and yes it does wake up almost immediately with out the 3 second lag that exists for the other faces. Something to do with showing seconds maybe?


----------



## IronP

So, if I see what about next updates at the suunto website, I only see two improvements in the watch:


Possibility to edit sport mode settings
Alarm clock

All the rest of the updates are related to the connectivity and movescount!
Is anyone here aware about more? To be honest, I do expect that suunto gives the priority to the watch itself and not to the platform!
Is there any improvements about user usability expected by the next update?
regards...


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> Anyone else notice that the vibration alert for notifications from the iPhone on the watch are almost imperceptible? I wear the watch quite tight and really feel nothing when an email comes in etc.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, I find its more of a gentle nudge than a vibration.
Have the feeling that Suunto made some compromises to hit battery life targets, but it would be nice to have a choice and sacrifice some of the life by turning off low power settings. Would also be good to change the font size for notifications


----------



## PTBC

IronP said:


> So, if I see what about next updates at the suunto website, I only see two improvements in the watch:
> 
> 
> Possibility to edit sport mode settings
> Alarm clock
> 
> All the rest of the updates are related to the connectivity and movescount!
> Is anyone here aware about more? To be honest, I do expect that suunto gives the priority to the watch itself and not to the platform!
> Is there any improvements about user usability expected by the next update?
> regards...


Thats back to roadmap being a good idea, frustrating that there is a selectable interval mode for exercise, but you can't set the intervals


----------



## IronP

PTBC said:


> Yes, I find its more of a gentle nudge than a vibration.
> Have the feeling that Suunto made some compromises to hit battery life targets, but it would be nice to have a choice and sacrifice some of the life by turning off low power settings. Would also be good to change the font size for notifications


To me, it would be nice to be able to scrow the text until its final, and not having just the part of the text displaying. Also a small icon would be helpfull to indicate that a msg has been received but not read....and following this principle, the addition of a function to retrieve past msgs!
But SUUNTO....this is clearly not the priority now!


----------



## FryeX

rdm01 said:


> What will be your choice now? V800? Back to A3? Garmin's one?


I'll be going back to F3HR, which is pretty much superior at the moment. If the update does not come next week or is a disappointment. Two things that Spartan currently does much better than F3HR is handling the multisport transitions and not messing up autolaps when manual lap is taken. But not nearly enough to warrant the price tag. Even GPS is much better on the F3HR at the moment. with 16 moves recorded only one track is really on the same level, but even that is not better than the track with F3HR. So one more week and then back to store goes SSU. I really hope Suunto delivers. And might pick up the watch later for another try. if Suunto does not quite get it this time around.


----------



## PTBC

IronP said:


> To me, it would be nice to be able to scrow the text until its final, and not having just the part of the text displaying. Also a small icon would be helpfull to indicate that a msg has been received but not read....and following this principle, the addition of a function to retrieve past msgs!
> But SUUNTO....this is clearly not the priority now!


Yes, while it's seeming pretty reliable in recognising notifications from the phone the read it withn x seconds or it disappears for good from the watch is frustrating. While Suunto has a lot to fix I do think it needs to not forget the day to day usage aspects, for some the justification for spending so much will be that it can be used for more than just training/exercise.

Activity tracking was supposedly added as it was a demanded function, but the attempt (like notifications) is half-hearted to say the least with no record kept of steps and no other tracking (hourly alert for inactivity for example).

Claiming it has these functions will leave some people very disappointed when people see how they have been implemented and while they are seen as secondary (fix GPS being a priority) it may be enough to make some customers return or not buy the watch. Also if they are easy fixes (there a known solutions) then it doesn't hurt to show some progress, still can't beleive how basic the stopwatch is to be honest, it's not as if the functionality and how to implement it isn't well known in generla terms


----------



## Cyberbob13

rdm01 said:


> What will be your choice now? V800? Back to A3? Garmin's one?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I guess I will continue using my old brave V800 for the moment as GPS performance for me is vital. When doing an interval training and prepare for an upcoming marathon race I need to rely on the distance measurement the watch provides.

From the hardware side I liked the SSU very much, I do not care about 1 or 2 hours more or less battery life as well as a somewhat slow response on a touchscreen which is excellent otherwise. BUT GPS needs to work and I have no hope that Suunto will manage to sort things out satisfactorily in this area (they even confess that the antenna is small and the watch very much reliant on secondary data such as the compass - which does not work either BTW).

No more complaining and wining from my side .


----------



## Teriemer

Philip Onayeti said:


> Since my Spartan sport arrived:
> 
> Poor Mac connectivity. Multiple resets and re-installs just to get it to connect to Suuntolink and finally get it to link to my account. Now it is hit and miss whether it will sync via cable.
> 
> Poor BT connectivity. Need to restart iPhone app for it to connect and sync. Indoor swimming won't sync. Other moves before and after do. Notifications however are robust.
> 
> Poor GPS tracking. Worse than Traverse. Much worse than A2 & A3.
> 
> Screen lag and wake up time.
> 
> Battery life not as advertised. Using stopwatch will cause very quick discharge (? due to light use). Poor battery performance can be ameliorated by turning off backlight. In pool backlight keeps getting activated by water.
> 
> Recognition of screen taps is intermittent at best.
> 
> Awaiting improvement updates as everyone is........


So the SPORT is hit too - being a beta/alpha product that does not work. It's is so sad reading the same story about the Sport as well.

I really think Suunto are loosing customers at the moment - both watches having all these issues. As an old Suunto guy, it breaks my heart. But me too, are turning my back to them. I'm even starting to think that not before we get Spartan II, the issues will be solved...

Damn it Suunto - this time you really created a mess. You got some serious clean up to do here. You'd better get started right away and do it fast.

Just imagine if Garmin released a well functioning 935HR right now. Wauw for a timing... And good bye Suunto I'd say...!

I'm frustrated :-( And glad I did hold my horses buying...


----------



## tinu80

...a positive note among all the (justified) negative things: I really love the navigation capability (even if it its pretty basic at the moment). Was planning several trail runs at home and its doing the job. I really hope that navigation gets enhanced in the future - on another web site i read rumours about basic map display capabilities. This would really be awesome (if they get it working at... say 2019


----------



## PabloAlarcon

it is very sad and dissapointing to see such a thing as "alarm clock" as an update!!, improvement?! Suunto really f..ed things up with this watch I love Suunto so I buyed a second A3 peak as back up. Hope all the pepople that buyed SSU get their money worth with real improvements and all the stuff that shoud've been there from the in the beggining


----------



## PTBC

tinu80 said:


> ...a positive note among all the (justified) negative things: I really love the navigation capability (even if it its pretty basic at the moment). Was planning several trail runs at home and its doing the job. I really hope that navigation gets enhanced in the future - on another web site i read rumours about basic map display capabilities. This would really be awesome (if they get it working at... say 2019


I tried it out using the basic follow a marked route/track back on breadcrumbs in area's I knew (just to be safe) and it works surprisingly well (as long as it is not too far off track with GPS), would still like to know when we can expect some more active navigation features,e.g., alert for upcoming turns, waypoints/POI's with direction/distance, basically what they already have on older watches from what I've seen of them.

I even used it to show someone doing a trail loop in the opposite direction to me where they were progress wise (zoomed out view) and direction to take where the trail split just ahead (short/long loop) so they could decide if they had enough time before dusk to complete the loop or just head back the way they had come.


----------



## Unperson

I had some navigation bugs that I put in a ticket to Suunto and as a reply they told me POI's were scheduled for 2016, they just didn't say when. That probably means they will get the SSU on par with earlier models navigation wise but it will take time.

I'd also like the watch to store the route from a hike on the watch so you can navigate it later, or on the way back. Now, as far as I know, if you stop the hiking activity you lose the track on the watch. It does store the points of course, and you can see the track later in movescount but I want to see the track in the watch.


----------



## PTBC

Unperson said:


> I had some navigation bugs that I put in a ticket to Suunto and as a reply they told me POI's were scheduled for 2016, they just didn't say when. That probably means they will get the SSU on par with earlier models navigation wise but it will take time.
> 
> I'd also like the watch to store the route from a hike on the watch so you can navigate it later, or on the way back. Now, as far as I know, if you stop the hiking activity you lose the track on the watch. It does store the points of course, and you can see the track later in movescount but I want to see the track in the watch.


See how that would be useful, something like for any unsynced move (to keep memory requirements down) the track is available as a route or availabe through the logbook to navigation. For weekends away could be useful, allow for some flexibility over saving routes in advance


----------



## FryeX

Unperson said:


> I'd also like the watch to store the route from a hike on the watch so you can navigate it later, or on the way back. Now, as far as I know, if you stop the hiking activity you lose the track on the watch. It does store the points of course, and you can see the track later in movescount but I want to see the track in the watch.


I'm hoping this feature gets in too. This is basic functionality of Garmin Fenix 3. You can take any activity from the watch history and navigate the course as it was or reverse the track. All through the watch. No phones/apps/internet/laptop/frustration required. Only a bit of patience as reversing a 110k bike ride takes a bit of time from the watch  But it does get it done.


----------



## wydim

PTBC said:


> See how that would be useful, something like for any unsynced move (to keep memory requirements down) the track is available as a route or availabe through the logbook to navigation. For weekends away could be useful, allow for some flexibility over saving routes in advance


this feature is existing in my Ambit2 !!

what up Suunto ????!!!!


----------



## tichy

Hm, just tried it on my Traverse: Navigation/Logbook/<log entry> -- does that work on the SSU?


----------



## rdm01

tichy said:


> Hm, just tried it on my Traverse: Navigation/Logbook/<log entry> -- does that work on the SSU?


Not implemented yet...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## planettokyo

How much the retail price now?I will buy this from after market since we suunto dont have store in my city.thanks


----------



## tinu80

planettokyo said:


> How much the retail price now?I will buy this from after market since we suunto dont have store in my city.thanks


I can only speak for myself; paid CHF 608 for the SSU Black HR (that's 555 Euro)


----------



## jukkaforss

Now there is roadmap for upcoming updates in Suunto's webpage. 

28.9. Android compatibility, improvements to daily use (such as alarm clock) and training functions, peer-to-peer coaching on Suunto Movescount.com 
12.10. Ability to adjust default sport mode settings
19.10. Progress Tool, Personal Bests and Community Training Insights on Suunto Movescount.com 
26.10. Sport mode customization, training plans to your watch and more 
11/2016 Altitude and Barometric trends, POI Navigation & heart rate zones graph for training 
12/2016 Rest & recovery 
Q1/2017 Route altitude profile, interval training support, performance and recovery analysis on the watch



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FryeX

Ok, so the sport mode customization slipped already. But overall the roadmap looks promising. I might take my watch back to store for a few months now while I wait for the improvements.


----------



## darkshait

Detailed road-map for our disappointing Spartan guys i tne get stronger page!


----------



## rdm01

jukkaforss said:


> Now there is roadmap for upcoming updates in Suunto's webpage.
> 
> 28.9. Android compatibility, improvements to daily use (such as alarm clock) and training functions, peer-to-peer coaching on Suunto Movescount.com
> 12.10. Ability to adjust default sport mode settings
> 19.10. Progress Tool, Personal Bests and Community Training Insights on Suunto Movescount.com
> 26.10. Sport mode customization, training plans to your watch and more
> 11/2016 Altitude and Barometric trends, POI Navigation & heart rate zones graph for training
> 12/2016 Rest & recovery
> Q1/2017 Route altitude profile, interval training support, performance and recovery analysis on the watch
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Good news! 6 months more and we'll have a Fenix 3!

I think that's my end as Suunto user :-(


----------



## IronP

There is a much more detailed roadmap within the suunto website:
Upcoming updates for Suunto Spartan and Movescount


----------



## Jaka83

I don't get it ... why does it take so much time to get the basics down?

It looks like two to three months for all the major updates and then if we're lucky, an update in Q1 2017 for the route altitude profile and some "extras". Does Suunto only have one programmer or what?


----------



## Pegasus

It will improve the watch greatly but it's massively slow to get done.

Seems like they created the hardware and forgot the software side until after release.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Nice, clear, organic plan. It gives average users like myself a chance to become familiar with new functionality and swiftly sidelines all the creepiness going on online.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johan6504

Where are the info about improvements in tracking performance in trail conditions? When will we see GLONASS support, and for the future maybe GALILEO. GPS performance is not satisfactory in the watch current state.


----------



## edit0r

Guys... at least Suunto got tired of me wining and published a roadmap as they should have done from day 1.
I am not getting into how slow things seems to move... I'll let you guys have the honors and comment on that 
I really miss my Spartan... loved the design...


----------



## rdm01

The early launch sucks!! Why the hell don't you launch the SSU in 2017Q1 instead now? Disgusting...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## gousias

I am sorry to see that only a few basic things will be added in depth of time. Where are the notifications/alarms (storm, moonrise, sunrise, tide, etc) ?


----------



## jeremy1271

Looking at the full roadmap, I feel like the developer's team is like 2 guys working 24/7 and we are the beta testers.


----------



## arnea

They are just realistic. Every feature that they add creates numerous bugs all over the place. It takes time to find and fix them. The more features they have the more slower they move.


----------



## PTBC

Surprised to see support for intervals all the way out in Q1/2017 - you would think that would be more of a priority, especially given they want to introduce ability to use movescount for coaching, loading training plans etc.


----------



## bryanredneck27

Deep
Down I wanted them to add more than one alarm  which they are not


----------



## PTBC

bryanredneck27 said:


> Deep
> Down I wanted them to add more than one alarm  which they are not


Yes there are some odd decisions that feel like they have just taken a half-hearted approach to anything they don't consider core functionality, could be down to being so far behind or lack of resources.

An example would be the stopwatch, while the watch is in a move you can do splits/laps etc, but the stopwatch only does start/stop/pause as far as I can tell, so they have they have developed the functionality (and code) just haven't applied it to that aspect (how hard could countdown be to implement if you already have a stopwatch), alternatively activity tracking that doesn't keep any history and resets every day.

The problem with this is that they have obviously decided to create a watch that is also suitable for day to day use (overall design,notifications, activity tracking etc.) based on customer feedback/demand and I'd say the price point reflects this to some degree, so if they don't deliver on these non-sport functions they are missing the target they were trying to meet and will either damage their reputation, lose sales or both.

But hey lets not forget we are going to be able to choose colour themes for the watchfaces!

Edit: seems negative, but to be clear I do like the watch and I'm prepared to wait for functionality (expected to have to wait when I bought it) and I do want GPS issues addressed first


----------



## PTBC

Interesting article on a quick GPS test of a Ultra, Sport and the new TomTom

https://the5krunner.com/2016/09/21/gps-accuracy-suuntos-spartan-and-ultra-vs-tomtom-runner3-spark-3/


----------



## 604

I think their release schedule is tight. I work at a tech company and bugs come up, releases get delayed... It's the nature of software. I'd prefer a realistic roadmap and not disappointing users by not being able to delivered on the dates promised rather than a 'best case scenario' roadmap. 

You can clearly see how things are adding up and delaying the work in just a few weeks:
- On launch, Suunto promised customizable sport modes and GLONASS during September.
- On Sept. 9th, right after the first september update, Suunto sent a newsletter email saying, I copy paste here: "... the following update, scheduled for the end of September, will bring the possibility to edit sport mode settings, Android compatibility, peer-to-peer coaching on Movescount.com, community training insights and more to the solution. Many of you have asked for the fully customisable sport modes. They will not be in the second September update, but we are working hard to release them soon."
- Now, sport mode specific settings gets pushed to October 12th and customized sport modes to Oct 26th.

I don't even see GLONASS in the list anymore, when they're listing it as a spec in the product page. They're gonna get sued for false advertising. Also, to me the prios are wrong. Where is interval training? I am very happy with the watch for now. I'm having great GPS tracks and battery life as described. As an "early adopter", I'm willing to wait for the updates, but this is terrible communication and project management. Someone should get fired.


----------



## PTBC

604 said:


> Also, to me the prios are wrong. Where is interval training?


Q1/2017 has something about interval training, but as I mentioned above this seems at odds with coaching and training plan implementations.

Also looks like a feature release schedule to me and having worked on development projects I know how risky that can be in terms of delivery unless they are in final testing phase which seems unlikely beyond the 1st October release , but Suunto backed themselves into a corner on a roadmap by leaving so many features off the initial release.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Just for interest Suunto have always done the release then (possibly) deliver late:

When I got my Ambit back in 2012 it could tell the time and track a route and that was about it!



> *1.0 Release March 2012
> **1.5: June 2012*
> Route creation and navigation based on waypoints:
> You can create a route based on individual waypoints in Movescount.com. Download the route to your Ambit and navigate through it waypoint by waypoint. Ambit notifies you when you have reached a waypoint and guides you to the next. Release 1.5 also enhances navigation by showing the name of the waypoint you are heading towards.
> Points of Interest (POIs):
> In addition to route navigation you can still create individual Points Of Interest and navigate to them. In Release 1.5 POIs can be added manually independent of your location. Stored POIs are categorized according to type, making it easier to search POIs in a list.
> Logbook:
> You can now view and examine all your previous sessions stored in the watch.
> Find Back:
> With the new Find Back feature, you can always navigate right back to where you started.
> Better views:
> Compass and Navigation views are now accessible also in exercising mode.
> GPS chip software improvements:
> Thanks to smart software optimization, the GPS fix time is even faster and Movescount performance is improved.
> 
> 
> *1.8 September 2012*
> The update will include:
> 
> 
> On screen route navigation
> Online routes to download
> Location displays in 5 global and 9 local grid references (includes US, UK and key European countries)
> Plus chrono, GPS time keeping, a constant backlight and five new languages (Italian, Portugese, Dutch, Finnish and Swedish)
> With this update, users will be able to download routes online or input their own waypoints from the comfort of their computer. Then out on the trails, whether hiking or biking, they'll be able to see their route in real time, including their start point, position and more importantly, the route ahead.
> Providing location displays in local grid references is another eagerly anticipated update for users who want to pinpoint where they are on their map.
> 
> 
> *2.0: November 2012*
> Starting from November 29th, Suunto Ambit users can download and develop their own features in the Suunto App Zone. This makes the Ambit the first GPS watch on the market to constantly evolve.
> Users can personalize their watch by downloading existing apps - innovative new features created by other users. For example, there's an app that lets them see their estimated finish time on a marathon, or a function that lets them know the real incline of the hill or mountain they are heading up.


----------



## 604

PTBC said:


> Q1/2017 has something about interval training, but as I mentioned above this seems at odds with coaching and training plan implementations.


Where have you seen that? The page I'm looking at only shows a release schedule until december: suunto.com/en-us/worlds/training-world/software-updates/upcoming-updates-for-suunto-spartan-and-movescount

Maybe a workout/interval planner is part of the "Transfer training plans" item in Oct 26th. Otherwise, there's many other features that could wait before being able to do intervals: personal bests, community training insights, hr zones graph, rest and recovery insights...


----------



## PTBC

604 said:


> Where have you seen that? The page I'm looking at only shows a release schedule until december: suunto.com/en-us/worlds/training-world/software-updates/upcoming-updates-for-suunto-spartan-and-movescount
> 
> Maybe a workout/interval planner is part of the "Transfer training plans" item in Oct 26th. Otherwise, there's many other features that could wait before being able to do intervals: personal bests, community training insights, hr zones graph, rest and recovery insights...


Post #1970 has at the end "Q1/2017 Route altitude profile, interval training support, performance and recovery analysis on the watch"

which seems like its from the summary page for Spartan get stronger Suunto Spartan gets stronger via software updates that has a link to the more detailed update info, though the detail page only goes to end 2016


----------



## thyokel

still waiting for GLONASS


----------



## Ingo

Does anybody actually realize that Q1/2017 could still mean more than 6 months from now?? And that's a best case scenario assuming everything new works flawlessly after the release. How likely will that be? It's probably only worth looking at this watch again a year from now - and then maybe we can even pick up a used one from a tired beta tester ;-)

Btw, I think you guys should be getting paid a rebate for your testing and troubles! That will also be much cheaper than a class action settlement looking at what damage just a defective watchband can cause: http://www.forerunnersettlement.com/

Glad to see Route Altitude Profile coming at some point but it's just too late in my case. If you can't keep your product launch momentum going your product has a high chance of moving from the front pages to the back and become obsolete. Who will really care about all these great updates in half a year other than maybe the few brave first buyers here especially considering that the competition is not sleeping either? This watch is dead - long live the A3P ;-)


----------



## FryeX

PTBC said:


> Interesting article on a quick GPS test of a Ultra, Sport and the new TomTom
> 
> https://the5krunner.com/2016/09/21/gps-accuracy-suuntos-spartan-and-ultra-vs-tomtom-runner3-spark-3/


My experiences exactly. I only have 15 Moves so far, and only compared against Fenix 3HR. But in every move SSU GPS is worse than F3HR. 1-2 It is very close, but still not on par. And you guys should see the GPS accuracy complaints about Fenix 3 on Garmin forum ;-) So I totally understand the frustration. I was tempted to take the watch back to shop already, but I guess I'll just have to see the next firmware update still. I have few days to play with it before I run out of time.


----------



## johan6504

thyokel said:


> still waiting for GLONASS


Me too, and maybe a plan to support Galileo in the future...


----------



## Cyberbob13

johan6504 said:


> Me too, and maybe a plan to support Galileo in the future...


Yesterday I switched from SSU to a Forerunner 735xt. Not that shiny but it is a matured product which has all the functionality I need. I miss my SSU too because I loved the look and feel of this watch and I would definitely wait until Q1 to have everything ready provided that improving the GPS performance to industry standards will be given priority. After having read the roadmap I am quite sure that one has to live with the SSU GPS as it is - or close to.

I have been asking me why the hell it is not possible to sacrifice a small section of the wristband to implement a powerful antenna? Polars V800 is half the size of the SSU and its GPS performance is awesome due to having its antenna incorporated into the wristband. This approach works great for a couple of years now but for whatever reason Garmin and Suunto decided to use a bezel antenna which - as experience with the A3V showed - sucks.

Christian


----------



## XCJagge

PTBC said:


> Interesting article on a quick GPS test of a Ultra, Sport and the new TomTom
> 
> https://the5krunner.com/2016/09/21/gps-accuracy-suuntos-spartan-and-ultra-vs-tomtom-runner3-spark-3/


I wonder why author is so puzzled. That's quite well known phenomena, error to the direction antenna is aimed at. Can be seen pretty much in every fellrnr.com review too if you look at the image with tracks colored by running direction. Antenna is usually most sensitive for signals from the direction it is aimed at, so it easily picks reflections from there instead of straight signals, if straight signals are weaker. That happens mostly to satellites antenna not shoots at and possibly are behind your body. Reflected signal has traveled longer way, so trilateration results as error to that direction. So typically if watch is in left hand you get error to the left. So out and back tracks does not meet. With tree cover straight signals are weaker and there is more reflections from trees. And this systematic error disappears when you shoot straight up with the antenna. With glonass there will be more "straight" satellites available and less reflections ends up being used used so this error is less prominent.


----------



## rdm01

Cyberbob13 said:


> Yesterday I switched from SSU to a Forerunner 735xt. Not that shiny but it is a matured product which has all the functionality I need. I miss my SSU too because I loved the look and feel of this watch and I would definitely wait until Q1 to have everything ready provided that improving the GPS performance to industry standards will be given priority. After having read the roadmap I am quite sure that one has to live with the SSU GPS as it is - or close to.
> 
> I have been asking me why the hell it is not possible to sacrifice a small section of the wristband to implement a powerful antenna? Polars V800 is half the size of the SSU and its GPS performance is awesome due to having its antenna incorporated into the wristband. This approach works great for a couple of years now but for whatever reason Garmin and Suunto decided to use a bezel antenna which - as experience with the A3V showed - sucks.
> 
> Christian


I'd like to see a GPS accuracy test wearing both (735XT and V800) of them in a challenge area...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## LONG_HAUL

XCJagge said:


> I wonder why author is so puzzled. That's quite well known phenomena, error to the direction antenna is aimed at.


Because wanna-be-bloggers are like sensationalist news papers, they only get attention when they display something outrageous. RizKnows also recently published a video where he proves that point. Even mature bloggers have the tendency of disseminating biased impressions aiming at being perceived by others as customers' advocates and a pain the manufacturer is aware of and dealing with. Think very bad political activists from the 60's, just a bunch of people who want to be liked and admired but lack the user case and the technical background.


----------



## edit0r

XCJagge said:


> I wonder why author is so puzzled.


I will never read the 5krunner blog and trust it because : he's all about fuzzy warm words that sound like the right marketing tune to play to the audience while they are about to decide to go shopping.

Did some digging...

When the Spartan was launched the made an post with his first run... it was an nice, warm, fuzzy, all positive post...

That post had no negatives, not a word about the bugs, quirks... and the cherry on the top was when he told the readers that the Spartan had and I quote _"_*razor sharp GPS"

*Of course he did not bother to present any facts to back up his claims in the post or in the next days...

The funny thing is as I retraced my steps i was surprised to find out the he modified his review and the words _"_*razor sharp GPS"* are GONE, but, of course he did not mentioned *why* like any good reviewer would do.

Ok, you realise that you made a mistake, it's no problem as long as you are honest to the readers and explain your latest findings.... but I can't find any explanation on his post... at least at this time... of course he could re-edit the post again...

Conclusion : This type of bloggers that don't tell the whole truth are NOT to be trusted... EVER.

If you want to read more :

The original poster to the 5krunner first run :

Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 84

I criticized it here :

Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 84

and here

Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 86


----------



## rdm01

edit0r said:


> I will never read the 5krunner blog and trust it because : he's all about fuzzy warm words that sound like the right marketing tune to play to the audience while they are about to decide to go shopping.
> 
> Did some digging...
> 
> When the Spartan was launched the made an post with his first run... it was an nice, warm, fuzzy, all positive post...
> 
> That post had no negatives, not a word about the bugs, quirks... and the cherry on the top was when he told the readers that the Spartan had and I quote _"_*razor sharp GPS"
> 
> *Of course he did not bother to present any facts to back up his claims in the post or in the next days...
> 
> The funny thing is as I retraced my steps i was surprised to find out the he modified his review and the words _"_*razor sharp GPS"* are GONE, but, of course he did not mentioned *why* like any good reviewer would do.
> 
> Ok, you realise that you made a mistake, it's no problem as long as you are honest to the readers and explain your latest findings.... but you can't find any explenation on his post... at least at this time... of couse he could re-edit the post again...
> 
> Conclusion : This type of bloggers that don't tell the whole trust are NOT to be trusted... EVER.
> 
> If you want to read more :
> 
> The original poster to the 5krunner first run :
> 
> Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 84
> 
> I criticized it here :
> 
> Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 84
> 
> and here
> 
> Suunto Spartan Ultra - Page 86


Agree!

deporteporvida.com


----------



## krazyeone

rdm01 said:


> Good news! 6 months more and we'll have a Fenix 3!
> 
> I think that's my end as Suunto user :-(


I read this thread and I wonder how an company like Suunto released an kickstarter prebeta product and users are paying for this

I bought an Ambilt 3 Peak for 298 eur with HR but to be honest is not that mature product , I just bought from curiosity and because I need an sport watch that looks like a normal watch, 
for running any Garmin is better , my old FR 910 xt had a ton of functionality , but how do you aspect that Spartan to be great if the previous "top model" is an joke?


----------



## rdm01

krazyeone said:


> I read this thread and I wonder how an company like Suunto released an kickstarter prebeta product and users are paying for this
> 
> I bought an Ambilt 3 Peak for 298 eur with HR but to be honest is not that mature product , I just bought from curiosity and because I need an sport watch that looks like a normal watch,
> for running any Garmin is better , my old FR 910 xt had a ton of functionality , but how do you aspect that Spartan to be great if the previous "top model" is an joke?


I think the answer is the Suunto's reputation. We (old Suunto's users) assumed they still working in a serious way but looks like we're wrong. If you lose your old customers and new ones see your products are not good your future is unclear...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## LONG_HAUL

edit0r said:


> When the Spartan was launched he made a post with his first run... it was an nice, warm, fuzzy, all positive post...
> 
> That post had no negatives, not a word about the bugs, quirks... and the cherry on the top was when he told the readers that the Spartan had and I quote _"_*razor sharp GPS"
> *...


The reason being: it does have razor sharp GPS. But, you see, he feels vulnerable as a blogger and doesn't want to have a mob like the one posting here, going after him and doing "fact checking". So he needs to accommodate for that. Good news is: I'm an actual user and have no reasons to feel like I have to go through fact checking just to please some random anonymous dude posting on this forum. And I am enjoying razor sharp GPS on my Spartan. From the start. And it is a freaking good looking hardware package that is amazingly comfortable so I can wear it 24/7. That's why I will do just like I have done for other brands before: enjoy the updates.


----------



## orks

Agree.


----------



## orks

Cyberbob13 said:


> Yesterday I switched from SSU to a Forerunner 735xt. Not that shiny but it is a matured product which has all the functionality I need. I miss my SSU too because I loved the look and feel of this watch and I would definitely wait until Q1 to have everything ready provided that improving the GPS performance to industry standards will be given priority. After having read the roadmap I am quite sure that one has to live with the SSU GPS as it is - or close to.
> 
> I have been asking me why the hell it is not possible to sacrifice a small section of the wristband to implement a powerful antenna? Polars V800 is half the size of the SSU and its GPS performance is awesome due to having its antenna incorporated into the wristband. This approach works great for a couple of years now but for whatever reason Garmin and Suunto decided to use a bezel antenna which - as experience with the A3V showed - sucks.
> 
> Christian


Agree.


----------



## martowl

LONG_HAUL said:


> The reason being: it does have razor sharp GPS. But, you see, he feels vulnerable as a blogger and doesn't want to have a mob like the one posting here, going after him and doing "fact checking". So he needs to accommodate for that. Good news is: I'm an actual user and have no reasons to feel like I have to go through fact checking just to please some random anonymous dude posting on this forum. And I am enjoying razor sharp GPS on my Spartan. From the start. And it is a freaking good looking hardware package that is amazingly comfortable so I can wear it 24/7. That's why I will do just like I have done for other brands before: enjoy the updates.


I have been a Suunto user since the T6 was introduced and I bought each Ambit model when it was introduced. Before the Ambit was out I tried several Garmins, which I was unhappy with. The Ambit 1 was a great watch and when introduced had a basic feature set with a roadmap for major improvements. Suunto delivered on the updates and vastly improved the functionality of the watch. I expect they will do the same with the Spartan Ultra. Frankly, it appears they asked for feedback in order to determine what the most important functionality upgrades should be, in addition to the planned roadmap Suunto published. I think it is unusual for any company to be adding new features with a priority requested by customers. I asked for Ambit Vertical features and it appears those will be implemented. I have a Stryd powermeter and the Garmin owners have been asking Garmin to implement power in the running profile ever since the Stryd was introduced. It is unlikely to happen. Suunto altered their software quickly to accommodate running power.

I canceled my pre-order mainly because my Ambit3 Peak has virtually all the features I need. Some of the features I seldom use. However, the roadmap for the Spartan Ultra has a few features that I would like to have and I will likely purchase one.

@LONG_HAUL likes his Spartan Ultra and his comments are pushing me further toward buying one. I cannot blame him for not wanting to post. I have been on Suunto forums since Suunto hosted forums and when they closed their forums down we moved over here. Our group was interested in how we could use our training instruments to better train and I think the relationship was much friendlier than now.

I acknowledge that the launch of the Spartan probably was a bit early, but the release roadmap looks fantastic. For every Ambit model introduced Suunto delivered the functionality promised and if they missed a date, which happened infrequently, they posted that there were bugs that needed to be addressed as they did not want to release software that does not function properly. A few posters here are posting issues and trying to understand the root cause of those issues. I appreciate reading those posts. However many of the posts are simply vitriolic complaints and not worth my time to read. Complaining about how Suunto will not be able to meet the roadmap they have posted is simply unbelievable! Why don't you wait until the software is delivered and then complain. It seems many here just want to make their complaints heard.

IMHO the Ambit series is the best watch out there for general mountaineering and ultras. I run ultras and I own an Ambit, I am very happy with it, it works!. Based on my experience, I expect the Spartan will be as good or better than the Ambit; I would appreciate the screen resolution so I don't need to cycle through screens. Some of you own Spartans, if you hate the watch get rid of it, I want a titanium all black so let me know if you want to sell.

Sorry for the rant but I am tired of reading the vitriol....some of you own Spartans but I don't and do not feel qualified to comment on the watch, furthermore, I wonder how many posting here actually own a Spartan.


----------



## borgelkranz

martowl said:


> ... However many of the posts are simply vitriolic complaints and not worth my time to read. Complaining about how Suunto will not be able to meet the roadmap they have posted is simply unbelievable! Why don't you wait until the software is delivered and then complain. It seems many here just want to make their complaints heard...


|>


----------



## Hecke

martowl said:


> I wonder how many posting here actually own a Spartan.


I do, and although I am not happy with the GPS performance of mine, I agree with LONG_HAUL. 
I like the watch and will enjoy every update along the way.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> Sorry for the rant but I am tired of reading the vitriol....some of you own Spartans but I don't and do not feel qualified to comment on the watch, furthermore, I wonder how many posting here actually own a Spartan.


I read your entire post and appreciate you taking the time to write that down. Thank you. If you have any questions about the Spartan just let me know.


----------



## martowl

LONG_HAUL said:


> I read your entire post and appreciate you taking the time to write that down. Thank you. If you have any questions about the Spartan just let me know.


Well...thanks, and I am not the first to ask but the question went ignored because of the complaints. Can you charge and record at the same time? On the Ambit, there is full functionality while charging and recording. Specifically, can you see the screen display on the Spartan while charging and recording a move. Thanks!


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> The reason being: it does have razor sharp GPS. But, you see, he feels vulnerable as a blogger and doesn't want to have a mob like the one posting here, going after him and doing "fact checking". So he needs to accommodate for that. Good news is: I'm an actual user and have no reasons to feel like I have to go through fact checking just to please some random anonymous dude posting on this forum. And I am enjoying razor sharp GPS on my Spartan. From the start. And it is a freaking good looking hardware package that is amazingly comfortable so I can wear it 24/7. That's why I will do just like I have done for other brands before: enjoy the updates.


Care to share those razor sharp GPS tracks? So far no-one has been able to actually show better than average at most tracks. So it kind of makes the comments feel like paid by Suunto comments.


----------



## FryeX

martowl said:


> Sorry for the rant but I am tired of reading the vitriol....some of you own Spartans but I don't and do not feel qualified to comment on the watch, furthermore, I wonder how many posting here actually own a Spartan.


I've been wearing mine almost three weeks now. And there are two things that are much better than on Garmin Fenix 3 HR. One is the way the transitions between multisport activities are handled and another one is the separation of automatic and manual laps from each other. On every other functionality area F3HR is superior. Hardware is awesome and the roadmap looks promising. So in 6-9 months it could be a killer watch. It is a shame as I really wanted to like it already now. That is why I put my money on it. Most likely I'll get the money back after next weeks update and consider the watch again next year.

There is one more thing that I can give credit to SSU. The fused speed seems to work relatively well. But the reason I know this is because with Foot pod the watch tracks me only 900 meters for every KM so foot pod is useless at the moment. Luckily the Fused speed is as good as it is so the lack of footpod calibration is not that bad.

I would really like to see those razor sharp tracks as I have not been able to produce single one yet. Out of 15 moves tracked. Every activity was recorded with F3HR and Spartan and every time F3HR outperforms SSU's GPS. Every time.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> Well...thanks, and I am not the first to ask but the question went ignored because of the complaints. Can you charge and record at the same time? On the Ambit, there is full functionality while charging and recording. Specifically, can you see the screen display on the Spartan while charging and recording a move. Thanks!


Yes, as far as I can tell, the Spartan is fully functional while charging, including all the functionality for recording moves. As far as I could tell, all functions work as they normally do when it is not plugged to a power source. No issues or weird interactions between charging plug magnet and the compass as far as I could tell. I did calibrate the compass with the charging magnet in place and connected to the Spartan. When recording a move with it plugged, I wear it on the right hand simply because the cable comes out to the right of the watch as you are looking at its face. That way I have the cable route up my right forearm in a more compact way to the power source. Wearing it on the left is fine too, you will just have to make it go around your wrist to go up your left forearm (where I would assume you would have the power source strapped). Is there anything more specific you want me to check?


----------



## PTBC

FryeX said:


> Care to share those razor sharp GPS tracks? So far no-one has been able to actually show better than average at most tracks. So it kind of makes the comments feel like paid by Suunto comments.


These aren't razor sharp, but if anyone is interested in GPS tracks I've been turning it on walking the dog as it's the same route and I can quickly have comparison tracks, on the street it's usually spot on, in the trees it gets more interesting. All 5 tracks are with GPS at best and section is a service road that has some sky visible most of it's length. I was thinking off discarding one of the tracks as there was a film crew on the service road so lots of mobile generators, radios etc., but it doesn't seem any further off than the others.


----------



## PTBC

Finally had a reply on the swimming issue where at the end of the move it was deducting distance

"We do apologize for the delay in getting back to you.

We have been in contact with our colleague from the higher level of support regarding your concern.

This is a known issue or bug for swimming data using watch as our tech analyst has informed . There will be improvements or correction coming for this issue in the later version. Our developers are currently working on that. Hopefully ,this will be fixed immediately."

Maybe the 'immediately' means its in the next update on the 28th


----------



## martowl

LONG_HAUL said:


> Yes, as far as I can tell, the Spartan is fully functional while charging, including all the functionality for recording moves. As far as I could tell, all functions work as they normally do when it is not plugged to a power source. No issues or weird interactions between charging plug magnet and the compass as far as I could tell. I did calibrate the compass with the charging magnet in place and connected to the Spartan. When recording a move with it plugged, I wear it on the right hand simply because the cable comes out to the right of the watch as you are looking at its face. That way I have the cable route up my right forearm in a more compact way to the power source. Wearing it on the left is fine too, you will just have to make it go around your wrist to go up your left forearm (where I would assume you would have the power source strapped). Is there anything more specific you want me to check?


Sounds great, I am about to pull the trigger (again


----------



## rdm01

PTBC said:


> Finally had a reply on the swimming issue where at the end of the move it was deducting distance
> 
> "We do apologize for the delay in getting back to you.
> 
> We have been in contact with our colleague from the higher level of support regarding your concern.
> 
> This is a known issue or bug for swimming data using watch as our tech analyst has informed . There will be improvements or correction coming for this issue in the later version. Our developers are currently working on that. Hopefully ,this will be fixed immediately."
> 
> Maybe the 'immediately' means its in the next update on the 28th


Curiously today Suunto's support asked me for a link to a move with the same issue. I sent the link with screenshots and pics of the logbook.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> Sounds great, I am about to pull the trigger (again


I have been using daily the very model you want to buy (Spartan Ultra Titanium All Black) for over a month. I have just over 100 moves in a few sport modes so feel free to ask questions. The next update is within striking distance so that's something else you could consider. The usual flooding and pilling up on the thread is still on going but I have most of them on my ignore list so I don't miss important posts. You can add posters to your ignore list on the mobile app as well.


----------



## wydim

martowl said:


> I acknowledge that the launch of the Spartan probably was a bit early, but the release roadmap looks fantastic. For every Ambit model introduced Suunto delivered the functionality promised and if they missed a date, which happened infrequently, they posted that there were bugs that needed to be addressed as they did not want to release software that does not function properly. A few posters here are posting issues and trying to understand the root cause of those issues. I appreciate reading those posts. However many of the posts are simply vitriolic complaints and not worth my time to read. Complaining about how Suunto will not be able to meet the roadmap they have posted is simply unbelievable! Why don't you wait until the software is delivered and then complain. It seems many here just want to make their complaints heard.


hey everybody, I don't own the watch so feel free to ignore my comments. However, I feel that I have the right to be disapointed in Suunto because I seriously considered buying it until I realized the launch of this watch was so premature that I consider it borderline false advertisement. And I'm not talking about battery consumption or GPS accuracy. I'm talking about the feature set that were promised but not delivered (yet)

They (suunto) already post-poned many features that were suppose to be in the september update to late 2016. Features that are at the moment (or were at launch) in the spec sheet. We, members of this forum, are better informed than the average consumer. But think about the average consumer who is only consulting the Suunto website and published specs, IMO they have many reasons to be disapointed (but of course, they'll never sue the company for false advertisement, they'll only return the watch).

On a less legal point of view, I'm more disapointed in this way of doing business that's more and more common (release half-baked and update after). When I bought the Ambit1, I knew what I was getting out of the box. I'm not so sure with the Spartan. That's why my $800 is still in my bank account and I'm a happy camper with my A2

P.S. my disapointement is half-oriented in the Movescount.com team (I assume the Spartan team and Movescount team are different entities) which was suppose to have many new features in the septembre updates. Now it's October/November. I'm sure they'll get there... but I would prefer they are better at estimating their due dates.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Did(n't) anyone notice the question at the end of my "initial review"? Or this tweet? (Yes, it's Suunto-related, about things to ask them/there; no, I don't want to ask / have suggestions here, this thread is already crazy enough as it is - and a separate thread for my question would be overdoing it.)


----------



## LONG_HAUL

wydim said:


> I consider it borderline false advertisement. And I'm not talking about battery consumption or GPS accuracy. I'm talking about the feature set that were promised but not delivered (yet)


You want to sue for false advertisement? Buy an epix.


----------



## PTBC

rdm01 said:


> Curiously today Suunto's support asked me for a link to a move with the same issue. I sent the link with screenshots and pics of the logbook.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Yes I had to go through all of that (including making profile public so they could see move), it could be that the technical team want more examples to identify the bug or its possible the service desk isn't being kept up to date on known issues so they are having to forward to the technical team, diagnostic logs, moves etc. before answering. Funnily enough going through a similar issue on a project, where we are trying to have service desk deal with answering known issues being raised repeatedly so that limited development resources can work on fixing the issue now that we have enough information for them to work on.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Did(n't) anyone notice the question at the end of my "initial review"? Or this tweet? (Yes, it's Suunto-related, about things to ask them/there; no, I don't want to ask / have suggestions here, this thread is already crazy enough as it is - and a separate thread for my question would be overdoing it.)


If you started a separate thread, I would subscribe to it and post there instead of posting on this thread.


----------



## martowl

wydim said:


> hey everybody, I don't own the watch so feel free to ignore my comments. However, I feel that I have the right to be disapointed in Suunto because I seriously considered buying it until I realized the launch of this watch was so premature that I consider it borderline false advertisement. And I'm not talking about battery consumption or GPS accuracy. I'm talking about the feature set that were promised but not delivered (yet)
> 
> They (suunto) already post-poned many features that were suppose to be in the september update to late 2016. Features that are at the moment (or were at launch) in the spec sheet. We, members of this forum, are better informed than the average consumer. But think about the average consumer who is only consulting the Suunto website and published specs, IMO they have many reasons to be disapointed (but of course, they'll never sue the company for false advertisement, they'll only return the watch).
> 
> On a less legal point of view, I'm more disapointed in this way of doing business that's more and more common (release half-baked and update after). When I bought the Ambit1, I knew what I was getting out of the box. I'm not so sure with the Spartan. That's why my $800 is still in my bank account and I'm a happy camper with my A2
> 
> P.S. my disapointement is half-oriented in the Movescount.com team (I assume the Spartan team and Movescount team are different entities) which was suppose to have many new features in the septembre updates. Now it's October/November. I'm sure they'll get there... but I would prefer they are better at estimating their due dates.


Hi wydim, I appreciate your insights and I agree, the Ambit1 out of the box did what it was supposed to do. IMHO Suunto simply released the Spartan too early, they should have waited until the Sept software was ready. Or said directly, we are releasing a brand new platform that we need the customers help to grow and that the Spartan will not be mature for a while. It wouldn't surprise me if marketing ran the show and said we need the watch out now. Although I know very little about programming I can only imagine how I would feel if I was one of the software engineers reading these posts thinking I told them to wait.


----------



## PTBC

wydim said:


> think about the average consumer who is only consulting the Suunto website and published specs, IMO they have many reasons to be disapointed (but of course, they'll never sue the company for false advertisement, they'll only return the watch).


The current trend of pre-beta release is just the state of the market (apart from dive computers/algorithms hopefully!) and until consumers start punishing companies for it then Suunto likely felt that can't afford not to follow the market trend in that respect. Personally I don't feel mislead though.


----------



## PabloAlarcon

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Did(n't) anyone notice the question at the end of my "initial review"? Or this tweet? (Yes, it's Suunto-related, about things to ask them/there; no, I don't want to ask / have suggestions here, this thread is already crazy enough as it is - and a separate thread for my question would be overdoing it.)


Didn't see this post, I already answered you in facebook


----------



## ixman

Can anyone mention a premium outdoor watch in the last 15 years or more that didn't had an alarm, a freaking alarm!!! I guess not... Aaaaa not to forget the compass that moves 1 degree when you rotate the watch almost 90 degrees. Absolute rubbish. I would fire the whole marketing department at Suunto or whoever decided to release such a primitive preview, not beta software. Too bad as the physical design of the watch is very nice and well made. Yes, I'm also tired of moaning but I'm sooooo disappointed


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Those who say the GPS tracking is comparable to Ambit series are truely misguided or not using the device in anything but non-challenging conditions. My Traverse is even outperforming my Spartan. W.r.t GPS: wearability has won over functionality and Spartan is truely a comfortable watch to wear all day.

For those who are upset about functionality updates delivering promised features which are missing at release: this was exactly as it was with A1. Do not discount the enjoyment of waiting for the next little "present" from Suunto. It a bizarre way it actually adds to the experience of having your watch slowly improve over time. It keeps your interest and engages you with the process.


----------



## Jaka83

I think GPS accuracy is OK. It's comparable to my now retired Ambit 1 and I'm satisfied. If it gets better I won't mind tho. 

Another road cycling move I did today after work (GPS looks good to me):
Jaka_Jese's 1:46 h Cycling Move


----------



## FryeX

Jaka83 said:


> I think GPS accuracy is OK. It's comparable to my now retired Ambit 1 and I'm satisfied. If it gets better I won't mind tho.
> 
> Another road cycling move I did today after work (GPS looks good to me):
> Jaka_Jese's 1:46 h Cycling Move


Looks overall much better than tracks out of my unit. Thank you for the link! I guess there is still hope. Mostly it looks like the watch tracked you on the correct side of the road as well when looking through satellite images.

Thanks again, really appreciate it.


----------



## PTBC

wydim said:


> P.S. my disapointement is half-oriented in the Movescount.com team (I assume the Spartan team and Movescount team are different entities) which was suppose to have many new features in the septembre updates.


Suunto refer to the Spartan solution which includes movescount and backend pieces so definitely there is overlap between movescount development affecting spartan development and vice versa, some level of dependency likely exists and its easy to lose sight of that I guess when the watch is the physical object we focus on.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> IMHO Suunto simply released the Spartan too early, they should have waited until the Sept software was ready.


It must have been a difficult call to make. I also suspect that the decision to release what was released, when it was released, happened quite a while ago. The SW feels too smooth for it to have been an abrupt decision. It takes time even to just freeze code base. There is always loose ends and several days can go by without reaching a stable state. Plus all the licensing and certification needs time. So they must have started that a while ago and in time for release to customers even before August. I don't think it was an all-out mad dash as some have suggested.


----------



## Jaka83

FryeX said:


> Looks overall much better than tracks out of my unit. Thank you for the link! I guess there is still hope. Mostly it looks like the watch tracked you on the correct side of the road as well when looking through satellite images.
> 
> Thanks again, really appreciate it.


No problem. I'll post some more hiking moves this weekend.

The only time my unit has some problems regarding GPS tracking is with heavy foliage and tight bends (switchbacks).
And I've only had one move with a failed heart rate and altitude graph after thre hours or so into the recorded move. The move synced OK, just some data was missing. Contacted Suunto support and they replied that they are sorry for the inconvenience and thanked me for my patience and supplied data - I didn't go all "Clint Eastwood" on them, even tho I could have.

It also looks like my battery is getting OK-ish results now.

This watch brings back familiar feelings that the Ambit 1 gave me ... waiting for the next SW update like a little kid on Christmas morning.


----------



## bruceames

LONG_HAUL said:


> The reason being: it does have razor sharp GPS. But, you see, he feels vulnerable as a blogger and doesn't want to have a mob like the one posting here, going after him and doing "fact checking". So he needs to accommodate for that. Good news is: I'm an actual user and have no reasons to feel like I have to go through fact checking just to please some random anonymous dude posting on this forum. And I am enjoying razor sharp GPS on my Spartan. From the start. And it is a freaking good looking hardware package that is amazingly comfortable so I can wear it 24/7. That's why I will do just like I have done for other brands before: enjoy the updates.


I don't own the SSU, but would be very interested if only the GPS were more accurate. Hopefully that will be the case at some point. I might wait for the 2nd gen Spartan as this watch is so different that it probably needs a full generation of updates and fixes before it is ready for prime time (much like the original X9, which I owned, and don't want to repeat that mistake). I have used Suunto watches exclusively since 2000 and I expect Suunto will get this watch right over time so I can keep the streak going. 

That said, unlike some, I want to hear all opinions on this watch, good or bad. Stifling discussion by belittling others is one of my pet peeves because I want to hear the whole story, not just what I want to hear.


----------



## Joakim Agren

Keep in mind that some posts in here is borderline crossing WUS rule # 2. Remember we want to keep this place a pleasant place! "2. Members will be kind and courteous, and respectful to other members and the moderators. No direct or indirect personal attacks or insults of any kind will be allowed. Posts which antagonize, belittle or humiliate other members and/or the moderators will not be tolerated, nor will racism, sexism, bigotry or foul language."

With that said I am glad I did not go for the Spartan it is clearly not a mature product like we had hoped! maybe next year it will be... But by then I fully expect to see a fenix 4 presented at CES Las Vegas 2017. So competition is very hard for Suunto...:rodekaart


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Joakim Agren said:


> I fully expect to see a fenix 4 presented at CES Las Vegas 2017.


Keep your pants on, Joakim. As I have posted weeks ago, after the release of the AW2, anything without a touch screen will be DOA (in the price point/feature set, your G-Shocks are safe). And even some manufacturers who did have touch screen planned for their new models are going back to the drawing board. LG, Huawei and Motorola confirmed they will no longer release smartwatches at the beginning of 2017. Unless you know something more specific related to touch screen on any possible releases, I would not keep my hopes very high. Maybe Garmin and Polar will join the list of companies taking a rain check this CES. Also, anything "presented" at CES would take a few months to hit the stores, and then a few more months to get mature (it seems to be an important factor for you). So you would be looking at about a year from now, if it is something really worth waiting for...


----------



## johan6504

Jaka83 said:


> I think GPS accuracy is OK. It's comparable to my now retired Ambit 1 and I'm satisfied. If it gets better I won't mind tho.
> 
> Another road cycling move I did today after work (GPS looks good to me):
> Jaka_Jese's 1:46 h Cycling Move


For cykling i'm sure it is ok.
But for trail running it needs to improve. Yesterday I was leading a training for a 10K trail run and I got 9.6Km, with my V800 I 10.0 Km. That is just not ok... What I found out though is that navigation works great in SSU. So for navigation I will keep SSU but when I need accurate distance I will have to rely on my Polar V800. If the SSU follows the same path as Fenix 3, the big risk is that the SSU will never be good enough with regards to tracking.


----------



## XCJagge

thyokel said:


> still waiting for GLONASS


While waiting it getting enabled someone with SSU and A3 vertical or Fenix 3 could do glonass disabled (gps only) comparisons in forested environment (glonass disabled in all devices). It should give some indication of the accuracy ballpark SSU most likely will end up when glonass gets enabled.


----------



## mercuir0

ixman said:


> Can anyone mention a premium outdoor watch in the last 15 years or more that didn't had an alarm, a freaking alarm!!! I guess not... Aaaaa not to forget the compass that moves 1 degree when you rotate the watch almost 90 degrees. Absolute rubbish. I would fire the whole marketing department at Suunto or whoever decided to release such a primitive preview, not beta software. Too bad as the physical design of the watch is very nice and well made. Yes, I'm also tired of moaning but I'm sooooo disappointed


I would really like to see some statistics on the usage of writs watch alarms. Especially nowadays, where everyone owns a smartphone this complaint sounds so much like whining without any apparent reason to me...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FryeX

mercuir0 said:


> I would really like to see some statistics on the usage of writs watch alarms. Especially nowadays, where everyone owns a smartphone this complaint sounds so much like whining without any apparent reason to me...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It's no statistics, but for me the Fenix 3HR is the primary alarm. It does not wake up my wife like the smartphone would. I do have the phone set as a backup some minutes later.


----------



## borgelkranz

PTBC said:


> These aren't razor sharp, but if anyone is interested in GPS tracks I've been turning it on walking the dog as it's the same route and I can quickly have comparison tracks, on the street it's usually spot on, in the trees it gets more interesting. All 5 tracks are with GPS at best and section is a service road that has some sky visible most of it's length. I was thinking off discarding one of the tracks as there was a film crew on the service road so lots of mobile generators, radios etc., but it doesn't seem any further off than the others.
> 
> View attachment 9434258
> View attachment 9434274


I experience this behavior as well. However, it feels, that the reported distances match most of the time, albeit the visualized tracks differ.
Since you still have some of your moves: what's your experience?


----------



## ixman

mercuir0 said:


> I would really like to see some statistics on the usage of writs watch alarms. Especially nowadays, where everyone owns a smartphone this complaint sounds so much like whining without any apparent reason to me...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The watch is advertised for serious outdoor activities. I usually do multi day mountain hike or climb. You can't rely on your phone. You need a reliable watch that has at least an alarm, reliable altimeter, storm alarm and a good compass. If you're in the middle of nowhere your watch becomes a very important asset that can make a big difference.
If I need a watch for city running or cycling then I'll buy a Garmin Forerunner or something similar that costs a fraction; 
Suunto Spartan Ultra; the key is in the name isn't it? Ultra. Can someone tell me what Ultra stands for?!? Ultra beta? Ultra broken? I'm confused...

Anyway I should stop commenting/whining as long as I've decided to return my SSU. My A3P is my trusted watch for now.


----------



## wayller

I'm looking for a watch to replace my Garmin FT910XT, would you go for Fenix 3 or SSU? I'm really liking the SSU design and concept, but from the Suunto comparison, the Ambit3 Peak looks like a better choice.


----------



## jeremy1271

wayller said:


> I'm looking for a watch to replace my Garmin FT910XT, would you go for Fenix 3 or SSU? I'm really liking the SSU design and concept, but from the Suunto comparison, the Ambit3 Peak looks like a better choice.


You're right ! I had a Fenix 3, and I still have my Ambit 3 peak and a SSU. Go for a A3P, it's the most reliable watch with an awesome GPS precision and battery life.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

wayller said:


> I'm looking for a watch to replace my Garmin FT910XT, would you go for Fenix 3 or SSU? .


Imagine you had an infection, but that you didn't know what the bacteria causing the infection was. And that you had a limited amount of money to buy antibiotics to treat the infection. Assuming the bacteria type tests are not available, you would have two options:

1) buy a large variety of antibiotics for several different bacteria strains, but because money is limited, the amount of each antibiotics would be a bit short, and you would take the risk of not treating the infection all the way. You will also be dealing with a lot of side effects as you are taking many different medicine types.

2) understand your symptoms and make an educated guess as to what the bacteria type might be, and buy full treatment for a smaller range of possible bacteria strains. Here you are guarantee to get full treatment, but you may be treating for the wrong bacteria type completely.

The fenix3 family watches have tons of options but every one falls short. Every one. And the side effects are the bugs not associated with the functions you use, but that you end up having to deal with anyway.

The Spartan is going to be the full package, for a few specific "inflictions".

What are you "symptoms"?


----------



## wayller

LONG_HAUL said:


> Imagine you had an infection, but that you didn't know what the bacteria causing the infection was. And that you had a limited amount of money to buy antibiotics to treat the infection. Assuming the bacteria type tests are not available, you would have two options:
> 
> 1) buy a large variety of antibiotics for several different bacteria strains, but because money is limited, the amount of each antibiotics would be a bit short, and you would take the risk of not treating the infection all the way. You will also be dealing with a lot of side effects as you are taking many different medicine types.
> 
> 2) understand your symptoms and make an educated guess as to what the bacteria type might be, and buy full treatment for a smaller range of possible bacteria strains. Here you are guarantee to get full treatment, but you may be treating for the wrong bacteria type completely.
> 
> The fenix3 family watches have tons of options but every one falls short. Every one. And the side effects are the bugs not associated with the functions you use, but that you end up having to deal with anyway.
> 
> The Spartan is going to be the full package, for a few specific "inflictions".
> 
> What are you "symptoms"?


I don't understand what you mean. I know that SSU is bugged, but if it's something that will get better over time, I'm going for the SSU.


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> The fenix3 family watches have tons of options but every one falls short. Every one. And the side effects are the bugs not associated with the functions you use, but that you end up having to deal with anyway.


Nice one again. I do actually wear both at the same time and have been doing this for three weeks now. Even if Fenix 3 series falls short like LONG_HAUL says, it still outperforms SSU on every area except the few I have already mentioned in this thread. (Multisport activity change and auto vs manual laps)

Luckily I have seen now quite good GPS tracks from few SSU owners so it could potentially be that things can improve over time.

I really agree on the needs part. What you need from the watch is a key. If you do multi-sport and require sport specific heart rate zones, not available yet on SSU. If you require power zones for cycling, again not available yet. Foot pod calibration, not available yet. The spartangetsstronger web site is quite good now to describe what improvements or new features are coming and a rough timeline so it is easier to get the overview.

Purely based on hardware I would still go with SSU. But at the moment I have to have F3HR with me as well to get the data I need. I could leave out SSU and still get all I need, but I still have next week time to decide if I keep my SSU or not and it does not help with the decision to keep the SSU in a box.

So list the must haves you have. After that the decision could be much easier. If you have specific questions does something work or not on F3 line or SSU, feel free to drop me a private message.


----------



## wayller

FryeX said:


> Nice one again. I do actually wear both at the same time and have been doing this for three weeks now. Even if Fenix 3 series falls short like LONG_HAUL says, it still outperforms SSU on every area except the few I have already mentioned in this thread. (Multisport activity change and auto vs manual laps)
> 
> Luckily I have seen now quite good GPS tracks from few SSU owners so it could potentially be that things can improve over time.
> 
> I really agree on the needs part. What you need from the watch is a key. If you do multi-sport and require sport specific heart rate zones, not available yet on SSU. If you require power zones for cycling, again not available yet. Foot pod calibration, not available yet. The spartangetsstronger web site is quite good now to describe what improvements or new features are coming and a rough timeline so it is easier to get the overview.
> 
> Purely based on hardware I would still go with SSU. But at the moment I have to have F3HR with me as well to get the data I need. I could leave out SSU and still get all I need, but I still have next week time to decide if I keep my SSU or not and it does not help with the decision to keep the SSU in a box.
> 
> So list the must haves you have. After that the decision could be much easier. If you have specific questions does something work or not on F3 line or SSU, feel free to drop me a private message.


Thank you! I'm a runner. No cycling, no swimming, maybe some cross-country skiing. I need gps and cadence, I don't use HR that much when I train. I know that the SSU lacks cadence now, but will it get it? It's a quite expensive watch, and at the moment it lacks premium functions.


----------



## FryeX

wayller said:


> Thank you! I'm a runner. No cycling, no swimming, maybe some cross-country skiing. I need gps and cadence, I don't use HR that much when I train. I know that the SSU lacks cadence now, but will it get it? It's a quite expensive watch, and at the moment it lacks premium functions.


You get cadence from wrist for analysis in movescount afterwards. And it is quite accurate. It is just not visible during the exercise on the watch.


----------



## Hecke

wayller said:


> I know that the SSU lacks cadence now, but will it get it?


How do you 'know' that? 
Mine records cadence. See here for an example:
hecke's 0:40 h Running Move
What you might see there is that the recorded cadence si somehow periodically changing. Which I guess is the outcome of a bad filter of the raw acceleration data. The Ambit series gives a very smooth estimate of cadence from the wrist, so it is only a matter of time until they fix this.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

wayller said:


> Thank you! I'm a runner. No cycling, no swimming, maybe some cross-country skiing. I need gps and cadence, I don't use HR that much when I train. I know that the SSU lacks cadence now, but will it get it? It's a quite expensive watch, and at the moment it lacks premium functions.


It does have cadence recorded on the move. Either from internal accelerometer, or from a foot pod, if you pair one. You can see the average cadence for the lap in the lap page when in the running basic sport mode. It will allow you to configure cadence as an independent data field soon, no doubt. All foot pods are being autocalibrated for distance/pace right now. But that is also a preliminary approach that should change soon. You always have the choice of not pairing a foot pod until you get full control. I wear a speed cell and it is working spot on, hassle free, no issues. If you run only, and you don't give yourself the open possibilities the Spartan Ultra platform offers now, constraining yourself to a fading software, you may regret that bitterly. Going on a run now  ...yes, just my SSU and I...


----------



## wayller

Hecke said:


> How do you 'know' that?
> Mine records cadence. See here for an exampl
> What you might see there is that the recorded cadence si somehow periodically changing. Which I guess is the outcome of a bad filter of the raw acceleration data. The Ambit series gives a very smooth estimate of cadence from the wrist, so it is only a matter of time until they fix this.


My bad, I read a review saying that it lacked cadence. Do you get cadence when you run?


----------



## wayller

LONG_HAUL said:


> It does have cadence recorded on the move. Either from internal accelerometer, or from a foot pod, if you pair one. You can see the average cadence for the lap in the lap page when in the running basic sport mode. It will allow you to configure cadence as an independent data field soon, no doubt. All foot pods are being autocalibrated for distance/pace right now. But that is also a preliminary approach that should change soon. You always have the choice of not pairing a foot pod until you get full control. I wear a speed cell and it is working spot on, hassle free, no issues. If you run only, and you don't give yourself the open possibilities the Spartan Ultra platform offers now, constraining yourself to a fading software, you may regret that bitterly. Going on a run now  ...yes, just my SSU and I...


So you recommend buying it, even if I only run?


----------



## Hecke

wayller said:


> Do you get cadence when you run?


Hmm, I actually never checked. During the run I look at the autolap summary each km, and eventually my pace to check if I should be allowed to feel as I do ;-)

I checked, it is not in the current running modes. That is pretty stupid, as the numbers are there.

Btw: I worked for over a year to up my cadence, and what worked best is a children song that sounds very sluggish if sung under 180bpm. Not only it tells me if I am in the correct zone, having the song in my head also makes it effortless to run with a high cadence for longer times.
Of course that can be annoying to some, but I am known to run in circles for 24 hours, so, what do I know...

And yes, cadence is one of the most important measures for running.


----------



## Hecke

wayller said:


> So you recommend buying it, even if I only run?


How long do you run? There are people who would be happy with the battery life of the Spartan Sport.


----------



## wayller

Hecke said:


> How long do you run? There are people who would be happy with the battery life of the Spartan Sport.


For the moment, nothing. I'm starting up again after some injuries, but I'll buy the Ultra if I'm buying a Spartan. Cadence and pace is the most important data, but my FT910 doesn't have cadance. So I can wait for it, or just use Movescount.


----------



## wydim

PTBC said:


> Suunto refer to the Spartan solution which includes movescount and backend pieces so definitely there is overlap between movescount development affecting spartan development and vice versa, some level of dependency likely exists and its easy to lose sight of that I guess when the watch is the physical object we focus on.


You're right. But also keep in mind that the movescount updates are for anyone with Ambit1, 2 and 3, traverse, etc... not only spartan! That's why I was upset that some "movescount" features were also delayed recently (announced like they were only part of the spartangetstronger program, which they are not)


----------



## wydim

mercuir0 said:


> I would really like to see some statistics on the usage of writs watch alarms. Especially nowadays, where everyone owns a smartphone this complaint sounds so much like whining without any apparent reason to me...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I use my smartphone alarm 99% of the time, but when I'm out (camping, multi-day trips) I leave my smartphone in my car. Sorry, no amount of arguing is going to convince me that ALARM is not a must-have on an outdoor watch (or ANY watch)


----------



## jeremy1271

Anybody noticed the SSU GPS "best" mode doesn't produced one record / second as advertised ? I've made a 15km run with a A3P and a SSU. The SSU (in "best" GPS mode) recorded 1497 points while the Ambit 3 recorded 2756 points.

MyGPSFiles

SSU in blue / A3P in yellow


----------



## bryanredneck27

wydim said:


> I use my smartphone alarm 99% of the time, but when I'm out (camping, multi-day trips) I leave my smartphone in my car. Sorry, no amount of arguing is going to convince me that ALARM is not a must-have on an outdoor watch (or ANY watch)


It's like getting s car that comes with no radio...


----------



## PTBC

borgelkranz said:


> I experience this behavior as well. However, it feels, that the reported distances match most of the time, albeit the visualized tracks differ.
> Since you still have some of your moves: what's your experience?


Distances (km) are
4.26 - watch worn on right rather than left
4.22
4.25
4.12 - watch totally missed the turn at the top
4.31
4.27








Out of curiosity following some comments on here I tried putting the watch on the right wrist (especially as there is a large bank 20 to 30 foot on the left hand side of the trail) and the track was a lot closer to the trail


----------



## PTBC

FryeX said:


> You get cadence from wrist for analysis in movescount afterwards. And it is quite accurate. It is just not visible during the exercise on the watch.


The fact you can't resize or even use landscape in the IOS app makes some of the graphs (cadence being one) look a lot worse than they are as the data points are 'squeezed' together so they appear very jittery, the online graphs look a lot better.


----------



## PTBC

wayller said:


> For the moment, nothing. I'm starting up again after some injuries, but I'll buy the Ultra if I'm buying a Spartan. Cadence and pace is the most important data, but my FT910 doesn't have cadance. So I can wait for it, or just use Movescount.


I'm in the situation of starting after health issues and one thing to bear in mind is at the moment there no intervals so you will need to take something else to mark intervals or just do it manually by watching the time.

Even something simple as the duration target buzzed/vibrated at the end then reset and started over (useful if it marked a lap as well) it would be an improvement. So far I don't think the duration target does anything when it ends, but it is a nice use of the round form factor having the yellow creep around the outside of the dial and look forward to that being expanded beyond just a time target.


----------



## zvojan

jeremy1271 said:


> Anybody noticed the SSU GPS "best" mode doesn't produced one record / second as advertised ? I've made a 15km run with a A3P and a SSU. The SSU (in "best" GPS mode) recorded 1497 points while the Ambit 3 recorded 2756 points.
> 
> MyGPSFiles
> 
> SSU in blue / A3P in yellow


I have noticed. That's why instant pace is much worse on SSU than A3P

today's trail run with recorded points: A3P, *1634* recorded points.









today's trail run with recorded points: SSU, *833* recorded points.


----------



## jimmysalvo

zvojan said:


> I have noticed. That's why instant pace is much worse on SSU than A3P
> 
> today's trail run with recorded points: A3P, *1634* recorded points.
> 
> View attachment 9442898
> 
> 
> today's trail run with recorded points: SSU, *833* recorded points.
> 
> View attachment 9442906


My A3 Vertical behaves the same and from what I saw in this thread the accuracy seems to be similar. Fewer recorded points may be the consequence of lower antenna sensitivity


----------



## zvojan

jimmysalvo said:


> My A3 Vertical behaves the same and from what I saw in this thread the accuracy seems to be similar. Fewer recorded points may be the consequence of lower antenna sensitivity


Uf, that scares my a lot. One recorded point per 3-4 sec is useless for serious training with accurate instant pace. I hope that will change in near future otherwise.............


----------



## jeremy1271

zvojan said:


> Uf, that scares my a lot. One recorded point per 3-4 sec is useless for serious training with accurate instant pace.


True. Though, the accurarcy of my SSU is not that bad but the track looks like the "smart mode" of the Fenix 3 for those who know this, with big curve cuts.

The move file produced by my A3P is 2,05 Mo while the same from my SSU is 0,87 Mo.

Where is gone the "Full power 1sec GPS fix rate" as advertised ??? If it will come in a future update, I'll wait. But if it's the best the watch can do, my SSU will go back from where it came.


----------



## johan6504

jeremy1271 said:


> True. Though, the accurarcy of my SSU is not that bad but the track looks like the "smart mode" of the Fenix 3 for those who know this, with big curve cuts.
> 
> The move file produced by my A3P is 2,05 Mo while the same from my SSU is 0,87 Mo.
> 
> Where is gone the "Full power 1sec GPS fix rate" as advertised ??? If it will come in a future update, I'll wait. But if it's the best the watch can do, my SSU will go back from where it came.


I will give it one or two updates and if it hasn't improved it will go back to Suunto...


----------



## Pegasus

johan6504 said:


> I will give it one or two updates and if it hasn't improved it will go back to Suunto...


Will they just accept a return after all that time?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PTBC

jeremy1271 said:


> Anybody noticed the SSU GPS "best" mode doesn't produced one record / second as advertised ? I've made a 15km run with a A3P and a SSU. The SSU (in "best" GPS mode) recorded 1497 points while the Ambit 3 recorded 2756 points.
> 
> MyGPSFiles
> 
> SSU in blue / A3P in yellow


There was some discussion of this earlier in the thread, the difference between points recorded (good fixes) and the fix rate (which is the 1-sec full power), seems like the rate claim is more about explaining battery life.


----------



## zvojan

jeremy1271 said:


> Where is gone the "Full power 1sec GPS fix rate" as advertised ??? If it will come in a future update, I'll wait. But if it's the best the watch can do, my SSU will go back from where it came.


Totally agree. It is not as advertised. Sometimes difference between two points is even 7 second. That is just not good enough for real GPS accuracy and smooth instant pace. Everyone keep saying that Suunto will deliver updates. How can I know that?. So far I delivered to Suunto 700 EUR for half product. I really hope that will change soon. I love the watch, design, display but......


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Couple of comments just to try to assist the unaware. First, what is displayed and possibly event stored in memory while a move is ongoing is not necessarily the same data as what is eventually recorded to the move file. Also, remember you are downloading it from a website so I'm not sure you can rule out post processing. You all are crossing a pretty long bridge there without much insight on what is going on in the watch. Second, you all need to start exchanging notes on the actual sport modes you are using. The published spec "1 sec" or "1 min" can be just a general guideline provided simply because it has been practice over the years. Not because it accurately describes the way a particular watch works, and in the case of the Spartan, how tens of GPS sport modes work. Suunto would have to specify maybe an average recording rate for each sport mode and different recording conditions in order for you to find the actual record rates each one of you get. But that is not practical and not really done by any company. Just consider the fact that some watches have the battery spec up online as 300 mAh but when you open the watch you actually find a 290 mAh battery. That's something the end user cannot change very easily and is provided at a lower standard than specified in ads. Has anybody been sued for that? Nope. Samsung I think had to provide an explanation. But that was it. No recall. Nothing. So if you get to stuck on what is listed in generic spec lists, you will just be doing a whole lot of getting over it for absolutely no reward. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wydim

*my comments in red*



LONG_HAUL said:


> Couple of comments just to try to assist the unaware. First, what is displayed and possibly event stored in memory while a move is ongoing is not necessarily the same data as what is eventually recorded to the move file. Also, remember you are downloading it from a website so I'm not sure you can rule out post processing *(They are also downloading the moves from the same track recorded simultaneously with an Ambit, so they are right to compare watches with same track)*. You all are crossing a pretty long bridge there without much insight on what is going on in the watch. Second, you all need to start exchanging notes on the actual sport modes you are using *(again, they don't need to exchange notes. Some people are simply unhappy with the number of GPS points during the same moves with 2 watches (A3 vs SSU))*. The published spec "1 sec" or "1 min" can be just a general guideline provided simply because it has been practice over the years. Not because it accurately describes the way a particular watch works, and in the case of the Spartan, how tens of GPS sport modes work. Suunto would have to specify maybe an average recording rate for each sport mode and different recording conditions in order for you to find the actual record rates each one of you get. But that is not practical and not really done by any company *(Suunto took the time to write dozens of presentation pages to explain the spartan features. In it, the 3 gps modes are clearly explained and it doesn't match what people are finding in their daily use. They want explanations. Can you blame them ?)*. Just consider the fact that some watches have the battery spec up online as 300 mAh but when you open the watch you actually find a 290 mAh battery. That's something the end user cannot change very easily and is provided at a lower standard than specified in ads. Has anybody been sued for that? Nope. Samsung I think had to provide an explanation. But that was it. No recall. Nothing. So if you get to stuck on what is listed in generic spec lists, you will just be doing a whole lot of getting over it for absolutely no reward. *(And WE, as consumers, have the right to not accept that practice. I generally consider myself an optimist, but I think you are too acquiescent on this matter. Don't take it personnally. I will continue to read all post in this thread, as I enjoy and benefit from both sides of the mixed reviews until now)*
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> Couple of comments just to try to assist the unaware. First, what is displayed and possibly event stored in memory while a move is ongoing is not necessarily the same data as what is eventually recorded to the move file. Also, remember you are downloading it from a website so I'm not sure you can rule out post processing. You all are crossing a pretty long bridge there without much insight on what is going on in the watch. Second, you all need to start exchanging notes on the actual sport modes you are using. The published spec "1 sec" or "1 min" can be just a general guideline provided simply because it has been practice over the years. Not because it accurately describes the way a particular watch works, and in the case of the Spartan, how tens of GPS sport modes work. Suunto would have to specify maybe an average recording rate for each sport mode and different recording conditions in order for you to find the actual record rates each one of you get. But that is not practical and not really done by any company. Just consider the fact that some watches have the battery spec up online as 300 mAh but when you open the watch you actually find a 290 mAh battery. That's something the end user cannot change very easily and is provided at a lower standard than specified in ads. Has anybody been sued for that? Nope. Samsung I think had to provide an explanation. But that was it. No recall. Nothing. So if you get to stuck on what is listed in generic spec lists, you will just be doing a whole lot of getting over it for absolutely no reward.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Totally agree, also the 1-sec full power fix was in the original slides part of the explanation for battery life, it's used to show the power usage and how different levels of GPS setting impact the battery life. I've seen big gaps in recorded points where the watch has lost a fix, doesn't mean the watch wasn't consuming power at a lower rate, same as running through a tunnel, the watch will keep trying for GPS signal constantly even if there are is no GPS data points to record.

Same with battery life, imagine if they started adding in paired sensors by type and varying degrees of screen light usage, battery usage would quickly become a table that everyone complained about as they just wanted a figure. TomTom appear to have gone partly down this route with their new model they had battery life for GPS only, GPS+oHRM, GPS+ohRM+Music, at least they are inbuilt functions, imagine if they had added paired sensors and all the possible combinations.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

wydim said:


> *my comments in red*


Not sure what you mean in pretty much your entire reply. Thought that one of the main attractives of a user forum was the ability to exchange notes. So why should users not do that in this case? And I think the presentations you mentioned refer to internal GPS sampling rate, in the context of power efficiency, not necessarily data recording rate. Someone else already posted that. I'm not the first one. Also, I'm not any more or less acquiescent on customer acceptance than anybody else out there. Just pointing out a couple of facts.


----------



## wydim

LONG_HAUL said:


> Not sure what you mean in pretty much your entire reply. Thought that one of the main attractives of a user forum was the ability to exchange notes. So why should users not do that in this case? And I think the presentations you mentioned refer to internal GPS sampling rate, in the context of power efficiency, not necessarily data recording rate. Someone else already posted that. I'm not the first one. *Yeah, you're right about this part, but it doesn't change the fact that less points are recorded with SSU. Suunto seems to think it's supposed to be like that, people think it's not. Who's right, who's wrong ?? lol.* Also, I'm not any more or less acquiescent on customer acceptance than anybody else out there. Just pointing out a couple of facts.


about the "exchanging notes". I only meant that people are *already* comparing *apples with apples* so they don't need to specify what sport/settings/particulars *to have a valid* comparison when they voice their complaint about the number of recorded GPS points. I did *not* mean that this forum is not the place to do that.


----------



## XCJagge

Points not being stored every second does not indicate signal is lost or that gps can't or does not caclulate location every second. Instance pace figures not being accurate has nothing to do with the way watch stores points to memory. Watch simply has algorithm for figuring out should a point be stored or not. For various reasons, like saving mamory and feedback/complaints of old.

Ambits 2 and 3 does not record every second either. I wrote ambit app for recording points points every second, worked just fine with for example Vertical and Ambit 2. So actual track was the usual with not that many points but every second poitns could be read form values recorded by apps. So those watches certainly had fix and calculated point every second even if it does not store them. So I don't think it is any different here with SSU.

I'd say every second recording was removed after Ambit 1 because they got lots of feedback for distance recorded by watch was a lot shorter than distance calculated by summing up one second track segments. I can remember seeing such disparency complaints here at WUS too. End even if it is obvious thats just normal, thats expected result if you compare raw track to a distance caclulated with a little smarter algorithm. In addition, if you move slowly the track will look a lot smoother/straighter if there is less points recorded (some may remember those drunken wander track complaints of ambit 1). Easy fix is making sure watch doesn't store too much points even if it caclulates them. And that all is unfortunate, of course.


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## LONG_HAUL

wydim said:


> people are *already* comparing *apples with apples* so they don't need to specify what sport/settings/particulars *to have a valid* comparison...


If I record a run using a cycling sport mode and after it is on MC I change the activity type to run, that does not look like it would if I recorded the run using a running sport mode in the first place. How would it be comparing apples to apples, to then put that side by side with a track recorded by another watch that was on running sport mode from the start?


----------



## bruceames

zvojan said:


> Totally agree. It is not as advertised. Sometimes difference between two points is even 7 second. That is just not good enough for real GPS accuracy and smooth instant pace. Everyone keep saying that Suunto will deliver updates. How can I know that?. So far I delivered to Suunto 700 EUR for half product. I really hope that will change soon. I love the watch, design, display but......


The watch measures GPS distance/speed based on the fix rate, not just the points that are actually stored in memory.


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## jeremy1271

I would be OK with any fix rate since I don't find this ! (SSU in blue / A3P in orange)














On the left capture and the A3P track, you can see that I made a u-turn because the crossing light just turned green so I could cross the street to go run between the 2 roads on a pedestrian trail which is not on the map. The A3P really impress me even after 2 years of intensive use. I really thought Suunto would transfert or improve the same technology / program in the SSU, even though the antenna is different 

You can clearly see there are some missing points with the SSU while everything is smooth with the A3P (not even talking I run in the middle of the road). I really hope there will be a FW fix about that.


----------



## zvojan

ok, I will not care about recorded points if you expert say so. I don't care if there is only one point at middle if the track is spot on

Here is a fresh 6 km trail run from today with both watches (A3P, SSU) again.

To make it easier I will ask some questions and if somebody know the answer, please go ahead.

1. Is track and instant pace from SSU is worse, because I missed some setting?
2. Is track and instant pace from SSU is worse because smaller gps and other hardware issues?
3. Is track and instant pace from SSU is worse because FW issue and Suunto will fix that soon?
4. You do not know, like I don't.

Two pictures with recorded points. One from SSU and one prom A3P. There is no need to write which one is which 

first watch








second watch








both watches








........


----------



## wayller

If you look at 5KRunner's site, you can see a good comparison and explanation for the GPS. 

*ttps://the5krunner.com/2016/09/14/the-sequel-suunto-spartan-ultra-gps-tests-for-accuracy-against-tomtom-runner3-spark3-polar-v800-and-garmin-920xt/


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## rdm01

wayller said:


> If you look at 5KRunner's site, you can see a good comparison and explanation for the GPS.
> 
> *ttps://the5krunner.com/2016/09/14/the-sequel-suunto-spartan-ultra-gps-tests-for-accuracy-against-tomtom-runner3-spark3-polar-v800-and-garmin-920xt/


Razor sharp GPS accuracy again... No thanks, this guy have no credit to me

deporteporvida.com


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## Ingo

Wow, surprised this forum is still so active and we're debating fix rates and stored points again! Suunto already lost me when the GPS accuracy issues came up repeatedly with the SSU. I don't really need to know why that is. It only matters that there's a top of the line watch released by a company well known for quality and accuracy and the GPS sucks. Now everyone who bought this lemon is apparently praying and keeping fingers crossed that this issue is just going away rather than just slapping this watch into Suunto's face. I mean really, GPS accuracy problems in a GPS sports and outdoor watch - after they gave us the A3P?? How many companies you guys think get a second chance after face planting like that? Not Nokia or Saab for example. Both were great inventors and market leaders at some point in history - until they more or less lost it. Companies rise, peak, decline and eventually go out of business or get bought and slaughtered for their IP. If you buy into the SSU now and into their "great" new platform and Suunto's future you may as well go and pick up a Blackberry... I just got me an A3P for the same reasons I'd want to have a Saab 99 Turbo or the 900 Convertible. These were iconic cars that defined an era of greatness at the company but then they started making lemons. Suunto, hello?!


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## jeremy1271

@Ingo: You're right. But for my part, I'm splitted. In one hand we all knew this watch wasn't a fully finished product so we have to wait for updates. The brand have a solid reputation in terms of accuracy and reliability (I'm coming from a A3P). In the other hand, I can't believe they released a watch that don't even have a good GPS accuracy which would be the basics to start using it !!! Especialy when you know they made the A3P more than 2 years ago ! Honestly a watch with a good GPS and a clock would be enough to me so I can wait the other functions for some month.
One lesson I learned: I will never buy a brand new immature piece of technology anymore before reading serious reviews and forums.


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## Philip Onayeti

Those of us who own a Traverse/Vertical already know the aesthetics vs accuracy debate and probably aren't too surprised the Spartan GPS misses the mark compared with Ambit series.


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## LONG_HAUL

jeremy1271 said:


> One lesson I learned...


Check the date of the ephemeris data (SGEE) and make sure it is recent. Connect through the phone app or PC to get the most recent data. It is easy and free of charge. You can try giving your watch a good soak before starting. You can also start a move and leave the watch static and then look at the distance accumulated if you want to rule out some possible manufacturing defects. They happen. Have you done any of that? I can only see how one would get such response from the Spartan if there was an underlying problem. The Spartan GPS is razor sharp and works every time for me. Once you accept that other users are getting excellent responses from their Spartan watches, then it should be easier for you to focus on finding out what is wrong with your particular unit.


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## jeremy1271

I did update the SGEE right before I went for this run, because I wanted to go with a fully charged battery. As I stated before, the GPS is not totaly off, it just act as if the precision was set to "OK" producing twice less points than my A3P and big curve cuts.


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## LONG_HAUL

jeremy1271 said:


> I did update the SGEE right before I went for this run, because I wanted to go with a fully charged battery. As I stated before, the GPS is not totaly off, it just act as if the precision was set to "OK" producing twice less points than my A3P and big curve cuts.


Good to know you got the SGEE part right. You have identified a problem with your watch. If I were you I would be trying to find out what it is with the assumption other Spartans GPS work perfectly. It is hard for some people to be posting here with any frequency although they could possibly help. If you haven't tried support, that's probably a reasonable step. If you have and you are just frustrated no good answers were offered, then I'm afraid you got no other options at hand, unless for troubleshooting it yourself. Ranting here is not necessarily going to help directly, but I understand some people feel otherwise. You could also try to simply describe what steps you are taking to troubleshoot and not focus so much on the ranting comments. Sorry I can't help you immediately.


----------



## jeremy1271

Thanks for the help anyway. I'm not here for ranting though, It's more about knowing if other users noticed that problem, and what others think about it and discuss about feedback and then knowing if it's a defect unit or just a normal behaviour. Some others have problems with battery consumption, or altitude accuracy, not me. It's just not right to find out the track is not so accurate and produced by a 3 to 7 seconds record instead of 1 or 2 compared to a kinda old watch from the same brand in the same recording mode with the same GPS chip. I really hope an update will fix that.


----------



## jimmysalvo

LONG_HAUL said:


> Good to know you got the SGEE part right. You have identified a problem with your watch. If I were you I would be trying to find out what it is with the assumption other Spartans GPS work perfectly. It is hard for some people to be posting here with any frequency although they could possibly help. If you haven't tried support, that's probably a reasonable step. If you have and you are just frustrated no good answers were offered, then I'm afraid you got no other options at hand, unless for troubleshooting it yourself. Ranting here is not necessarily going to help directly, but I understand some people feel otherwise. You could also try to simply describe what steps you are taking to troubleshoot and not focus so much on the ranting comments. Sorry I can't help you immediately.


Can you please post some of your moves that you define as razor sharp?


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## zvojan

jimmysalvo said:


> Can you please post some of your moves that you define as razor sharp?


exactly what I want too.

Ok. Maybe you run on street, that is very accurate. Bike is also very good in gps. But trail running in deep forest....ehhh. I ran 20 moves so far, 154 km and 3500m ascent km in trail with both watches ( A3P and SSU) and 4 moves, 35 km in street running with both watches. I always wear both suuntos, because i do not believe in SSU. I have posted my results here for about 5 times. The results from SSU are always slightly worse. I always run from A to point B and then track back from B to point A. Track back (from B to A) should be overlayed in ideal conditions. It never is. Not even with A3P. There is always small deviations in deep forest. 3-10 meters deviations from A3P and 5-30 meters deviations from SSU. So SSU iz not suitable for navigation and track back and instant pace! I connect SSU every day to computer for GPS optimizing and wait for about 5 minutes after gps fix before running ( warming up).


----------



## XCJagge

zvojan said:


> first watch
> View attachment 9450098
> 
> 
> second watch
> View attachment 9450106
> 
> 
> ........


Classic example of this https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-ultra-3234634-200.html#post33807674
Ambit in right hand, error to right. SSU in left hand, error to left. Ambit has that 30 degree angle between face and antenna direction, so antenna is amed more up in ambit.That give it edge over SSU, together with slightly more sensitive antenna. SSU's error can be removed by aiming antenna up. Same with ambit, even if that track is better than SSU's track it isn't that good, you can improve it quite a bit by aiming ambit's antenna better. Ambit will loose some of its edge when glonass gets enabled in SSU. Most likely some of it's edge will stay, mostly for that 30 angle direction advantage. I suspect SSU with glonass will outperform Ambit when antennas are aimed up in both devices, but not quite if such direction optimization is not made. The qestion is what is accurate enough for each individual person. And what kind of sacrifices and compromises each individual is willing to take/make. Like carrying antenna bulge 24/7 or instead not having it but getting slight less accurate track. Or having separate trackpod (t6 + trackpod). I suspect Suunto thinks the track with glonass will be good enough for most to make it better option than bulge. I can imagine some here think it will not and would prefer having the bulge. And then there is me who is not happy with accuary with the bulge either, and instead uses paddings or inner wrist upside down techniques to shoot antenna in optimal way or keeps trackpod in hat. Unforunately propeller-head people like me are too rare making these hat/headband gps devicesnot becoming maintream (even if headcams are) :-d

What it comes to instant pace, usually doppler shift is used to calculate it, not just distance between points. And Suunto has its own accelerometer powered "fused" alcorithm on top of that. So most likely smothing algorithm isn't yet nowhere as good in SSU as it is in ambit (after years of tuning it for that bulge type antenna) and it suffers the same antenna aiming direction issue as the recorded track. And maybe there is no point trying to fine tune it too much before glonass gets enabled, especially when there is some other software tasks to do/fix. I think this is one of the things that may well become better over time.


----------



## Paulchen4711

Folks,

I'm carefully reading this thread and what I simply cannot read anymore is the advice to contact Suunto support in case of GPS issues. I did so via eMail and am waiting for any kind of personal reply since more than two weeks now. I even resend the eMail using the ticket-no (automatically generated), but no one takes care. I'm very frustrated and desperately waiting for the update next week. In case this will not show significant improvements, I'll call Suunto requesting a replacement and then sell it via eBay. 

Beside the GPS issue I'm struggling with the following problems:

- Heart rate is showing weird results (up to 230 beats per minute even being far away from any kind of electromagnetic fields)
- Starting of activities often take 10 seconds in which nothing is recorded 
- Auto-laps is also weird: the two data shown in the display after an auto-lap (1k running) are different although they should be the same

BR Paulchen


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## LONG_HAUL

XCJagge said:


> Classic example of this https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-ultra-3234634-200.html#post33807674
> Ambit in right hand, error to right. SSU in left hand, error to left. Ambit has that 30 degree angle between face and antenna direction, so antenna is amed more up in ambit.That give it edge over SSU, together with slightly more sensitive antenna. SSU's error can be removed by aiming antenna up. Same with ambit, even if that track is better than SSU's track it isn't that good, you can improve it quite a bit by aiming ambit's antenna better. Ambit will loose some of its edge when glonass gets enabled in SSU. Most likely some of it's edge will stay, mostly for that 30 angle direction advantage. I suspect SSU with glonass will outperform Ambit when antennas are aimed up in both devices, but not quite if such direction optimization is not made.


Nice post, sir. I agree mostly, have questions on some points and disagree on others. But I enjoyed reading your post overall. Thanks for posting. I just don't have time to always post here. But wanted to give you a very short feedback. Thanks.


----------



## Larry115

Hi...I called and confirmed with Suunto that Glonass is not turned on yet in our Ultra's. Is this the problem we see? The people testing against their A3P's is Glonass on? Just wondering...


----------



## XCJagge

zvojan said:


> Bike is also very good in gps. But trail running in deep forest....ehhh.
> ...
> There is always small deviations in deep forest. 3-10 meters deviations from A3P and 5-30 meters deviations from SSU.


Bike track are not better because speed is higher. It is because when you bike antenna shoots more straight up.

I often hear higher speeds are better for gps and makes things more accureate, that is not true. note, the Earth is rotating and we on it with such high speed it really does not make any difference are we walking or biking. It is just that error like 5 km/h in speed is not much if you drive 100 km /h, but when you walk the same error matters quite a lot. But that does not make it less accurate, error is the same.









Forested trails, SSU in left wrist antenna (clock face) aimed up with small padding. Error is more random and not constantly to left. I don't always get this good result (for not always being enough satellites high enough I believe), but I expect to get something like this every time after glonass gets enabled (because then there should be more sats up there). This would do it also more points gets recorded, this still suffers for not enough points getting stored. I hope this explains some of the things I wrote in my previous post - error to hand side / antenna's shooting direction issues and my guesses what SSU accuracy will be like with glonass. But I maywell fail miserably with my guesses, of couse!


----------



## 604

jimmysalvo said:


> Can you please post some of your moves that you define as razor sharp?


These are a few runs I've done with my SSU on the left wrist and the SSU on the other. The first 5 are 2/3 weeks old. The last one is from today. I'm having no issues. Accuracy is good for me, so I stopped doing tests with both watches. Today I did some trails with heavy foliage areas, and the sky has been VERY cloudy, so I took both again and still comparable IMO. The A3P is still better in some spots, but considering the watch launched just weeks ago... In some other areas the SSU is even better than the Peak though.

mygpsfiles.com/app/#li1QH6Jy
mygpsfiles.com/app/#lt8E6vTW
mygpsfiles.com/app/#ltV0y5Qo
mygpsfiles.com/app/#ltV0TOwT
mygpsfiles.com/app/#lfJzTL2r
mygpsfiles.com/app/#nfImnGCD < very cloudy, thick foliage

Add the www, sorry, can't create links with my account.


----------



## rdm01

XCJagge said:


> Bike track are not better because speed is higher. It is because when you bike antenna shoots more straight up.
> 
> I often hear higher speeds are better for gps and makes things more accureate, that is not true. note, the Earth is rotating and we on it with such high speed it really does not make any difference are we walking or biking. It is just that error like 5 km/h in speed is not much if you drive 100 km /h, but when you walk the same error matters quite a lot. But that does not make it less accurate, error is the same.
> 
> View attachment 9451898
> 
> 
> Forested trails, SSU in left wrist antenna (clock face) aimed up with small padding. Error is more random and not constantly to left. I don't always get this good result (for not always being enough satellites high enough I believe), but I expect to get something like this every time after glonass gets enabled (because then there should be more sats up there). This would do it also more points gets recorded, this still suffers for not enough points getting stored. I hope this explains some of the things I wrote in my previous post - error to hand side / antenna's shooting direction issues and my guesses what SSU accuracy will be like with glonass. But I maywell fail miserably with my guesses, of couse!


Being a former Vertical owner I can say the accuracy didn't improve when GLONASS was added. Looked to me the same or even worse because I got a GPS drop during one of the test I did. So I couldn't bet that the accuracy will be improved when they enable the GLONASS support...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## FryeX

jimmysalvo said:


> Can you please post some of your moves that you define as razor sharp?


I've been asking the same from him for a long already. It would really help me to see even one razor sharp track. I have seen OK tracks and all the way to very poor ones, but not a single razor sharp track as of yet. Of course most of the time people who do not experience issues tend to stay out of the forums. As they have no reason to hang around so the discussion around products is always colored. But still now that we have a happy camper here it would really help to see some data and to decide if what I have is faulty unit or just "Someone else's razor sharp." Or something else.


----------



## jeremy1271

rdm01 said:


> Being a former Vertical owner I can say the accuracy didn't improve when GLONASS was added. Looked to me the same or even worse because I got a GPS drop during one of the test I did. So I couldn't bet that the accuracy will be improved when they enable the GLONASS support...
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I was about to post the same. Correct me if I'm wrong but activating GLONASS just add satellites not accuracy. When activated, your GPS fix is faster when going to a new activity and you have more chances to get a GPS signal in really bad conditions like a dense forest in a deep valley. Nothing less, nothing more. I remember the time when Fenix 3 users tested GLONASS on and off and the accuracy wasn't better. I won't hope in a GLONASS activation to improve the SSU accuracy.


----------



## bruceames

XCJagge said:


> And then there is me who is not happy with accuary with the bulge either, and instead uses paddings or inner wrist upside down techniques to shoot antenna in optimal way or keeps trackpod in hat. Unforunately propeller-head people like me are too rare making these hat/headband gps devicesnot becoming maintream (even if headcams are) :-d


A3P antenna shoots straight up when worn normally on my wrist. I don't see why you'd have to adjust it. If it doesn't shoot straight up, then why would you claim it has an unfair advantage over the SSU?


----------



## bruceames

rdm01 said:


> Being a former Vertical owner I can say the accuracy didn't improve when GLONASS was added. Looked to me the same or even worse because I got a GPS drop during one of the test I did. So I couldn't bet that the accuracy will be improved when they enable the GLONASS support...
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Yeah I don't know why anyone thinks that will be the magic bullet that will make the GPS issues go away. This is sounding like a repeat of the Fenix 3 GPS accuracy saga. A problem that never really gets fixed because of hardware limitations.


----------



## XCJagge

The way I have my hands when I run makes Ambit 3 Peak's antenna shoot almost straight left. SSU shoots left-down. Both far from optimal, ambit slightly better but far from good enough for me. l always have Ambit inner wrist upside down when want to get good track. If I have equipment that are capable to perform well why would I not take most out of them. For me wearing ambit the normal way feels like owning a nice sports car but always driving it backwards and never achieving good speeds. 

One of the reasons for some finding SSU ok runingbut some find it poor and but all seem to think it is fine for biking, behind this may be the indivisual personal way of having wrist when running. Some shoot somewhat up with the screen some like me left down.

GLONASS should erase accuracy issues caused for lack of satellites. It may not have mych effect on accuracy issues caused by other reasons. Luckily for me the biggest issues is it just does not always perform well and most likely reason is the lack of satellites, so it may fix the remaining issue for me. And for vertical glonass made difference for me (never owned one but just borroed for some runs and tested a bit on and off, and those short test may have given me wrong impression).


----------



## wayller

Quick question. Will the Titamium keep the black color over time? I can't decide between the Ultra Black and Titanium Black. 

Sent fra min Nexus 5X via Tapatalk


----------



## edit0r

FryeX said:


> I've been asking the same from him for a long already.


LONG_HAUL why you avoid to backup your claims with some proof?

So I am asking him again ! In fact I encourage everyone to ask him because he might ignore some of us !

So guys repeat after me : LONG_HAUL please show us those razor sharp tracks of yours.


----------



## edit0r

wayller said:


> Quick question. Will the Titamium keep the black color over time? I can't decide between the Ultra Black and Titanium Black.
> 
> Sent fra min Nexus 5X via Tapatalk


It's titanium painted black... I would say that sooner or later... the paint will come off after a scratch...

Since titanium is not silvery... the scratch might not look so bad...


----------



## zvojan

edit0r said:


> LONG_HAUL why you avoid to backup your claims with some proof?
> 
> So I am asking him again ! In fact I encourage everyone to ask him because he might ignore some of us !
> 
> So guys repeat after me : LONG_HAUL please show us those razor sharp tracks of yours.


Few post ago he wrote, that he don't have enough time for posts here. So my guessing is that he will show us some razor sharp tracks when time allows that. Otherwise we will think, that he is a Suunto guy with one intention only to calm down 'heat' on this forum.  I think that different perspectives from all of us is good, but must be supported by evidence.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

How about this?










Distances recorded were:
Lap 1 (one round) 0.4 km (warmup)
Lap 2 (3 rounds) 1.20 km (~6:30 pace)
Lap 3 (3 rounds) 1.21 km (~6:00 pace)
Lap 4 (3 rounds) 1.21 km (~5:15 pace)
Lap 5 (3 rounds) 1.24 km (~4:30 pace)

Go figure if you'd consider that razor-sharp (just look at the bottom section) or having strange issues (NE section, with two trees?)


----------



## rdm01

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> How about this?
> 
> View attachment 9459762
> 
> 
> Distances recorded were:
> Lap 1 (one round) 0.4 km (warmup)
> Lap 2 (3 rounds) 1.20 km (~6:30 pace)
> Lap 3 (3 rounds) 1.21 km (~6:00 pace)
> Lap 4 (3 rounds) 1.21 km (~5:15 pace)
> Lap 5 (3 rounds) 1.24 km (~4:30 pace)
> 
> Go figure if you'd consider that razor-sharp (just look at the bottom section) or having strange issues (NE section, with two trees?)


Looks like you're using different firmware as an official tester...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## jeremy1271

@Gerald Zhang-Schmidt / Did you also run with an ambit to compare move files and accuracy ?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

jeremy1271 said:


> @Gerald Zhang-Schmidt / Did you also run with an ambit to compare move files an accuracy ?


Unfortunately not. Will get back to that in a bit, though


----------



## jeremy1271

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Unfortunately not. Will get back to that in a bit, though


Once done, compare the files size and, to go deeper, open the exported gpx files with "notepad++" for example, check and compare the lines "time". Have fun.


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## edit0r

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> How about this?
> Go figure if you'd consider that razor-sharp (just look at the bottom section) or having strange issues (NE section, with two trees?)


In my opinion the tracking is good to very good but not razor sharp because of the errors in the upper part near the trees.

Given that the track does not have many trees around and buildings I would hoped for a perfect tracking but does not seem to be the case.

As I said many times, the GPS performance is good, in my experience better then my Fenix 3 HR but not up to the V800 quality level.

I am curious what happens around those trees that makes the watch through those errors...


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## gousias

edit0r said:


> It's titanium painted black... I would say that sooner or later... the paint will come off after a scratch...
> 
> Since titanium is not silvery... the scratch might not look so bad...


If this comes true, it would be more than quite (at least for me) disappointing! I thought that since it is not aluminum such as Core Alu Deep Black, it would have no issues about signs (at least the easy ones, the softer friction that come on even from clothes when wearing them over the watch). 
Anyone who could post experience and photo here from time to time, after using the SSU TITANIUM BLACK would be helpful and appreciated.


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## tinu80

Suunto has published a more detailed schedule on planned updates:
Upcoming updates for Suunto Spartan and Movescount
I guess (hope!) that bugs are fixed simultaneously.


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## zvojan

Interesting. It is true what XCJagge said. GPS reception very much depends on your wrist position. This morning, for the first time I have changed wrist position from my natural posture (30 % to the ground) to 90 % to the ground. Again, both watches, both wrist to 90 %. Results from both watch are much worse because of that wrist position, but still, A3P is better.

short trail, 4 km, ascent 210m. Deviation from both watches at track back up to 15 meters and no overlays.

A3P with recorded points








SSU with recorded points


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## edit0r

gousias said:


> If this comes true, it would be more than quite (at least for me) disappointing! I thought that since it is not aluminum such as Core Alu Deep Black, it would have no issues about signs (at least the easy ones, the softer friction that come on even from clothes when wearing them over the watch).
> Anyone who could post experience and photo here from time to time, after using the SSU TITANIUM BLACK would be helpful and appreciated.


I haven't said that it is not a very good quality paint but it is paint after all. Depending on how bad the scratch it will be the the paint will eventually come off leaving the titanium visible.
Given the titanium is gray(ish) the scratch will not be very visible.

My experience :
I have the dark gray bezel Fenix 3 HR... The dark bezel of the Fenix 3 HR is in fact steel bezel coated with dark paint and although I wear a shirt and tie everyday I managed to scratch it... it's a very thin scratch, hair line like scratch...it happen... can't tell when. The problem is once the dark bezel scratches the shiny steel comes to light and the scratch is very visible and it does not look good (for those who the look and the details matter)... depending of the size of the scratch of course...
Another problem is that the Garmin did not sell the Fenix 3 HR with silver bezel at first (I would have liked the silver version), they are doing it now but it does NOT have the sapphire crystal glass.

Given this experience I've chosen the Suunto Spartan Ultra Black HR... no paint of any kind on the bezel.
Can't say how the scratches look on the Spartan Black HR because I did not scratched it and I've returned it for a while now so...


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## arnea

Zvojan, can you try this: do the normal run from A to B, then put the watches to other hand and run back - this should present watches with similar receiption going both ways and tracks should match better.

Btw, does the number of points stored depend on the quality of reception? Perhaps the main function of this mythical algorithm is to filter out bad points and not optimize the storage. It should be easy to test - hide the watch in the middle of run, so that reception is poor and see if this affects the number of stored points.


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## bluelee333633

i notice spartan doesnt have auto pause function when running…when i did not move a single meter，the watch still got a speed maybe the satelite speed。 when start running again thats when the gps points went off track。


从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL

Paulchen4711 said:


> I'm struggling with the following problems:
> 
> - Heart rate is showing weird results (up to 230 beats per minute even being far away from any kind of electromagnetic fields)
> - Starting of activities often take 10 seconds in which nothing is recorded
> - Auto-laps is also weird: the two data shown in the display after an auto-lap (1k running) are different although they should be the same


Unlikely the 230 beats per minute is an issue with the watch. It works fine for me with the few BLE heart rate monitors I used. I would try a restart (hold top button for 12-second) and if that doesn't resolve it, try changing the battery on the heart rate monitor or a different one altogether.

The Spartan will not start the activity if it is during the process of a sync with the phone app. In the unlikely scenario that coincidence happens (happened once in over a month for me), nothing bad happens. It simply shows an icon saying "syncing" (or something to the effect, can't recall). I simply exited the app and tried again. It worked immediately. Why am I saying all that? Perhaps your watch is interacting with your phone in a suboptimal way. Maybe it is taking longer deciding whether it is in the middle of a sync or not. Again a 12-sec restart could be helpful. Otherwise, I don't have any other guesses. Good luck!

Ah! The auto laps. Not sure what you mean on that one. Trying to understand what you wrote. Can you clarify?


----------



## gousias

bluelee333633 said:


> i notice spartan doesnt have auto pause function when running&#8230;when i did not move a single meter，the watch still got a speed maybe the satelite speed。 when start running again thats when the gps points went off track。
> 
> 从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


It is mentioned that it will be added in the upcoming firmware updates, an autopause sport mode, at least I think so, if I read it wright.


----------



## Jaka83

As I promised, I did two shorter hikes this weekend:

Mixed GPS difficulty - clear view of the skies and some parts with heavy foliage and a narrow valley:
Jaka_Jese's 2:49 h Hiking Move

Again, some heavy foliage and narrow valley with the morning mist (as seen from the photos):
Jaka_Jese's 2:42 h Hiking Move

I think the watch did pretty good on both moves, except for a couple of parts on the first move where the conditions were really harsh for GPS. There are a couple of points there you can see a "GPS knot" because I stopped for a while (removing my backpack, having a drink or just stopping to admire the scenery).

Overall I'm quite happy and if Suunto irons out those parts where you stand still and the GPS jumps around, I will be a happy camper. (plus adding the things still missing from the watch of course)


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## XCJagge

Just in case someone wants to know, here is the padding piece I have been experimenting with SSU to make antenna shoot more straight up. Left image style workd for running and right image xc skiing.


----------



## rdm01

One friend from Spain ran today a marathon. Total distance measured was 41,1. So great performance. He also reported autolaps were pretty accurate.

deporteporvida.com


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## CARLOS MLM

¡¡¡ increible, no se dice nada sobre un mejor funcionamiento del GPS !!!


----------



## Unperson

gousias said:


> If this comes true, it would be more than quite (at least for me) disappointing! I thought that since it is not aluminum such as Core Alu Deep Black, it would have no issues about signs (at least the easy ones, the softer friction that come on even from clothes when wearing them over the watch).
> Anyone who could post experience and photo here from time to time, after using the SSU TITANIUM BLACK would be helpful and appreciated.


Sorry to disappoint you further but the paint on the black titanium seems to scratch rather easily. I have one and on the top of the watch, the bezel has some scratches. I tried taking a picture of it but you really can't see it on that. No clue how it happened though, not during any form of move. I wear it everyday so maybe I scratched it while locking my bike or hit it against the kitchen sink, who knows. It's not really noticeable but the titanium beneath it is of a light grey colour, so it's still visible, but possibly not as visible as steel. It really doesn't bother me but it is kind of sad that this happens so easily. I don't care about the titanium, I just wanted it black, so I mainly paid more just for the colour (not that this tiny piece of titanium can possibly justify a 100 euro price difference anyway but hey, we're all fashion victims, right?).

If anyone knows a trick to darken those little blemishes let me know


----------



## Jaka83

Unperson said:


> Sorry to disappoint you further but the paint on the black titanium seems to scratch rather easily. I have one and on the top of the watch, the bezel has some scratches. I tried taking a picture of it but you really can't see it on that. No clue how it happened though, not during any form of move. I wear it everyday so maybe I scratched it while locking my bike or hit it against the kitchen sink, who knows. It's not really noticeable but the titanium beneath it is of a light grey colour, so it's still visible, but possibly not as visible as steel. It really doesn't bother me but it is kind of sad that this happens so easily. I don't care about the titanium, I just wanted it black, so I mainly paid more just for the colour (not that this tiny piece of titanium can possibly justify a 100 euro price difference anyway but hey, we're all fashion victims, right?).
> 
> If anyone knows a trick to darken those little blemishes let me know


I have the titanium all black too and wear it 80% of the time ... haven't scratched mine yet, but maybe I'm just too careful with my tech gadgets. I do place it watch-face down on my table when I'm not wearing it or charging it.


----------



## MiGRcz

Spartan sport owners: how long does it last? As everyday watch and width few gps activities per week. Thank you.


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## gousias

@Unperson: Yes, the design and the durability matters to me as much as the functions. It is a highly priced watch after all and no compromises should be there.
@Jaka83: I am also too careful in general with all my tech gadgets, but my Core Alu Deep Black left me negative critics from the part of material durability.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Jaka83 said:


> I have the titanium all black too and wear it 80% of the time ... haven't scratched mine yet, but maybe I'm just too careful with my tech gadgets. I do place it watch-face down on my table when I'm not wearing it or charging it.


I have had the same experience as you. No visible scratches at all. I wear an Ultra Titanium All Black 24/7 and workout at least twice a day. Long hours on weekends. Do my own bike maintenance/house/yard work. Absolutely no scratches (surprise, surprise,...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

XCJagge said:


> Just in case someone wants to know, here is the padding piece I have been experimenting with SSU to make antenna shoot more straight up. Left image style workd for running and right image xc skiing.


Nice. What is the padding material? Does it irritate your skin after a long time?


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## XCJagge

LONG_HAUL said:


> Nice. What is the padding material? Does it irritate your skin after a long time?


I took scissors and clipped that from my wife's yoga mat :rodekaart I will get bashed right after her next yoga session (which hasn't happenned yet). Just thought if the material doesn't irritate yoga folks it might be ok for me too. The strap part is from a crappy head band of a cheap head lamp.


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## johan6504

I merged data from three runners at the Berlin Marathon and selected a section. Pink is from Polar V800, Blue is Garmin FR 630 and Black is Suunto Spartan Ultra. SSU does not look like the high end watch I expected it to be...


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## johan6504

I added a few more in the comparison. They all seem to perform better than SSU even the Fenix 3.


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## gousias

Seriously???!!! Which one seems closer to the route, FR920XT?


----------



## Pegasus

XCJagge said:


> Just in case someone wants to know, here is the padding piece I have been experimenting with SSU to make antenna shoot more straight up. Left image style workd for running and right image xc skiing.
> 
> View attachment 9462234


I understand why you have created the padding but should we really be expected to wear a watch in a completely abnormal way to get it to be accurate? Suunto surely checked these problems during research for the watch.

It all reminds me of the iPhone 4 antenna problem and the quote from them that 'you are holding it wrong'.

Are we wearing it wrong? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edit0r

johan6504 said:


> I merged data from three runners at the Berlin Marathon and selected a section. Pink is from Polar V800, Blue is Garmin FR 630 and Black is Suunto Spartan Ultra. SSU does not look like the high end watch I expected it to be...


That is bad.. I would advise you to send the watch in and get a new one.


----------



## crawler2040

gousias said:


> Seriously???!!! Which one seems closer to the route, FR920XT?


V800 clearly stays better on the route the others seem to deviate to the upper side and SSU struggles in that section.

Enviado desde mi GT-P5100 mediante Tapatalk


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## edit0r

Guys, for 800$ we should not compromise on how we wear the watch.
If someone discovers that you get the best GPS performance wearing the watch on your head will you wear it on your head?


----------



## rdm01

johan6504 said:


> I added a few more in the comparison. They all seem to perform better than SSU even the Fenix 3.
> 
> View attachment 9463594


What about the reported distances?

deporteporvida.com


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## johan6504

edit0r said:


> That is bad.. I would advise you to send the watch in and get a new one.


Well I have had my watch changed by Suunto once already, both behaved in exactly the same way. If Suunto cant fix this by software update we are stuck with it...


----------



## wayller

Unperson said:


> Sorry to disappoint you further but the paint on the black titanium seems to scratch rather easily. I have one and on the top of the watch, the bezel has some scratches. I tried taking a picture of it but you really can't see it on that. No clue how it happened though, not during any form of move. I wear it everyday so maybe I scratched it while locking my bike or hit it against the kitchen sink, who knows. It's not really noticeable but the titanium beneath it is of a light grey colour, so it's still visible, but possibly not as visible as steel. It really doesn't bother me but it is kind of sad that this happens so easily. I don't care about the titanium, I just wanted it black, so I mainly paid more just for the colour (not that this tiny piece of titanium can possibly justify a 100 euro price difference anyway but hey, we're all fashion victims, right?).
> 
> If anyone knows a trick to darken those little blemishes let me know


I really hope it doesn't scratch that easy. I ordered the Titanium Black right now. Wondering if I should order the steel black instead.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

johan6504 said:


> I added a few more in the comparison.


It is common for athletes to travel long distances for major running events like the Berlin marathon. And for them to never really get a good, solid, long lasting GPS lock before race day. That could account for isolated cases like the one you so diligently found. And with more modern technologies based on server generated ephemeris data, you cannot always assume they all have the latest ephemeris data effectively applied to their new locations on race day. That could be part of the reason why you see so many bad track reports at first when a watch hits the market. And then they slowly fade away. Do you personally know any of the runners so you could get your homework done and ask them such questions? Is the SSU your own track log?


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## johan6504

rdm01 said:


> What about the reported distances?
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Distance is actually quite ok.

Fenix 3: 43.1 Km
Spartan Ultra 43.0 Km
V800 42.8 Km
920XT 42.7 Km
FR 630 42.7 Km


----------



## edit0r

johan6504 said:


> Well I have had my watch changed by Suunto once already, both behaved in exactly the same way. If Suunto cant fix this by software update we are stuck with it...


I did not know that, I am sorry... 
Given my battery drain experience I tend to say that it is either a batch with problems or just the immature firmware...


----------



## XCJagge

Pegasus said:


> I understand why you have created the padding but should we really be expected to wear a watch in a completely abnormal way to get it to be accurate? Suunto surely checked these problems during research for the watch.
> 
> It all reminds me of the iPhone 4 antenna problem and the quote from them that 'you are holding it wrong'.
> 
> Are we wearing it wrong?


No you are not, of course. I already explained in previous posts why I do this and been doing same with ambit 3 and ambit 1 (and often forerunner 205 back then). Nothing new or different with SSU really. I never have ended up using any wrist gps device the way it is designed. I dont expect anyone else do the same, just sharing my findings here, maybe I should not any more.


----------



## johan6504

LONG_HAUL said:


> It is common for athletes to travel long distances for major running events like the Berlin marathon. And for them to never really get a good, solid, long lasting GPS lock before race day. That could account for isolated cases like the one you so diligently found. And with more modern technologies based on server generated ephemeris data, you cannot always assume they all have the latest ephemeris data effectively applied to their new locations on race day. That could be part of the reason why you see so many bad track reports at first when a watch hits the market. And then they slowly fade away. Do you personally know any of the runners so you could get your homework done and ask them such questions?


I know how to use the watch and how to update SGEE data. The result from Berlin is no different than what I see at home. I am stating to think that you find excuses to not believe in any data we publish on this forum... If you have info we dont please share it with us. The tracking will not improve without fimware update, and if that is not going to happen than this is where we stand...


----------



## XCJagge

edit0r said:


> Guys, for 800$ we should not compromise on how we wear the watch.
> If someone discovers that you get the best GPS performance wearing the watch on your head will you wear it on your head?


I have tried that, gives superb result. I every time do it with new watch to see how it performs at it's best, before experimenting wrist positions. And to know to not test different wrist positions too much if it doesnt work even in a hat. Ambit 1 had problems with getting signal from HR strap. Almost every time I use my trackpod I carry it in my hat, produces great comparison tracks to compare against SSU tracks.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

johan6504 said:


> I know how to use the watch and how to update SGEE data. The result from Berlin is no different than what I see at home. I am stating to think that you find excuses to not believe in any data we publish on this forum... If you have info we dont please share it with us. The tracking will not improve without fimware update, and if that is not going to happen than this is where we stand...


You started you post with "I merged data from three runners". That's very indirect speech if you actually own a SSU, raced the Berlin marathon, used your SSU to record it (despite all the issues you seem to be having with it), and for that to be the track log you recorded. Is that your own track log? Link please.


----------



## edit0r

I love it on how you select the activity on a Polar V800, wait 30s to 1m to acquire the position and after you press start it simply WORKS with very good GPS accuracy.

Polar does not need minutes of soaking before the start, does not need to have the latest ephemeris or other bs.

I also love on how some of us have the right explanation for every thing that is bad with the Spartan.... everything is questionable BUT the watch..... everything is too blame BUT the watch.


----------



## Pegasus

XCJagge said:


> No you are not, of course. I already explained in previous posts why I do this and been doing same with ambit 3 and ambit 1 (and often forerunner 205 back then). Nothing new or different with SSU really. I never have ended up using any wrist gps device the way it is designed. I dont expect anyone else do the same, just sharing my findings here, maybe I should not any more.


Your findings are appreciated, didn't mean any offence, just seems wrong to have to go to the trouble you have had to on such an expensive watch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL

edit0r said:


> I also love on how some of us have the right explanation for every thing that is bad with the Spartan.... everything is questionable BUT the watch..... everything is too blame BUT the watch.


Doveryai, no proveryai.


----------



## 604

johan6504 said:


> I added a few more in the comparison. They all seem to perform better than SSU even the Fenix 3.


No offense, but I don't think picking random tracks from strava is the best way to compare devices. I've seen quite different levels of accuracy for the same device on the same race. It could be a very fast runner vs a very slow one. Someone running in the middle of the road vs someone close to the parked cars or the buildings... it'd even be that the device hasn't been synced with the latest SGEE data recently too. Dont get me wrong, it's a terrible track, but you get the point.

I keep getting good tracks. Not sure if I got a lucky unit, but as a comparison, here's the same cuts of a patch I do pretty often. I always follow the exact same path. On the left it's my Ambit 3 Peak, and the SSU is the one on the right part of the images. In general I'm getting good tracks, and in some spots, it's even more consistent than the Ambit. In others, the Ambit seems to do better, but can't find a pattern, really.









This one is from today, for instance. Autolaps went on within 3 sec from each other. Final distance 10.22km on both. It's a course with heavy foliage, and I'd say it's comparable to the Ambit. I'm not sure if it has any effect on gps data massaging, but I do chose Trail Running when I'm in the forest. See below (orange is the A3P and blue is the SSU). Here's a link too: mygpsfiles.com/app/#ohHTTRE9 . I'd even dare to say that in some spots, the small discrepancies, the SSU was more on track based on the heatmap on movescount.


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> You started you post with "I merged data from three runners". That's very indirect speech if you actually own a SSU, raced the Berlin marathon, used your SSU to record it (despite all the issues you seem to be having with it), and for that to be the track log you recorded. Is that your own track log? Link please.


Is it only me, but no matter how many times we have asked links to razor sharp GPS tracks those just don't seem to exist. When there is an issue the same guy(s) are shouting for links? Or am I missing something here?

Btw did a swim today and I have to say I'm impressed with the SSU tracking swims. Absolutely no complaints so far regarding the watch. Best part being the one LONG_HAUL mentioned earlier, automatic detection of intervals. And distance was reported spot on too. The HR belt is a pain compared to Garmin HRM-Swim, but for that belt there really is no competition that I know. Would love to have one of those with BLE to have with Suunto / Polar in the pool.


----------



## rdm01

LONG_HAUL said:


> Doveryai, no proveryai.


Can you share your movescount moves? It could be great for testing if your unit got better performance than some others. I mean maybe we can find if there's something external who make some users got better accuracy in some situations the others.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## rdm01

FryeX said:


> Is it only me, but no matter how many times we have asked links to razor sharp GPS tracks those just don't seem to exist. When there is an issue the same guy(s) are shouting for links? Or am I missing something here?
> 
> Btw did a swim today and I have to say I'm impressed with the SSU tracking swims. Absolutely no complaints so far regarding the watch. Best part being the one LONG_HAUL mentioned earlier, automatic detection of intervals. And distance was reported spot on too. The HR belt is a pain compared to Garmin HRM-Swim, but for that belt there really is no competition that I know. Would love to have one of those with BLE to have with Suunto / Polar in the pool.


You're lucky guys! I couldn't upload my swimming pool workouts. And everyone of them I got in my SSU reported different distances from in the main summary than the laps summary. I reported to Suunto and they are working to fix it. I don't know if it's only my unit... Are all of you swimming with the HR band? I'm not.



















deporteporvida.com


----------



## edit0r

rdm01 said:


> Can you share your movescount moves? It could be great for testing if your unit got better performance than some others. I mean maybe we can find if there's something external who make some users got better accuracy in some situations the others.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Guys, please, don't let him troll you over and over again.
Next time he will say that his Spartan began to grow wings... but of course he can't post pictures... but you guys will keep asking him... and keep asking him...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

edit0r said:


> Guys, please, don't let him troll you over and over again.
> Next time he will say that his Spartan began to grow wings... but of course he can't post pictures... but you guys will keep asking him... and keep asking him...


After just a few weeks sharing my thoughts here, I'm under the impression some people seem to appreciate what I bring to the table. Some share my views. Some don't. And that's alright. In any case, after all this time, all you've got on me is that I don't post tracks. That shouldn't bother you so much. And if that is all you got on me, I'm an angel. Because the vitriol here has been intoxicating. But that's all besides the point. I think you like keeping people busy here with stuff that doesn't really matter so to minimize the chances people will spend time thinking about and discussing the real white elephants in the room.


----------



## edit0r

Mr LONG_HAUL... now that you are on my ignore list... I feel so much better... 
And no... I am not gonna ask you about the wings... ))


----------



## FryeX

So to summarize, this thread has links from terrible tracks all the way to good ones. But only talk about great tracks and no links to those. Yet.


----------



## CARLOS MLM

[Cita = tinu80; 33906706] previstas Suunto ha publicado el Programa de las Naciones Unidas Más Detallado de las Actualizaciones: . (! Esperanza) -Supongo fijos Que el hijo Errores:: Al mismo tiempo [/ quote] 
no hay ninguna actualización para mejorar el GPS?


----------



## Philip Onayeti

The battery doesn't last the same as an Ambit Sport. My usual day would be 1hr tracked exercise in the morning and then off to work with the Spartan. Great for notifications. I use the stopwatch a lot at work and unfortunately I have found the auto backlight causes the Spartan to chew through the battery. It lasts less than two days. I turned off the auto light and it was somewhat better but in general use the backlight is useful for readability.

On day out MTBing: 4hrs 45min. 100% at start. 32% when finished. Mixed forest. Two stops where I changed the GPS to OK (cannot turn off like the Traverse) to save power.

I would say the Sport is a day watch. Needs topping up daily if you want to be confident to have it ready to go.

oops for got to quote your post MiGRcz


----------



## Unperson

I do think Suunto has some homework to do on the algorithm that turns the points collected by the watch into a track. We were visiting an old town in Italy (Fiesole) and I started a hike mainly to be able to find our car again after we were done sightseeing (wonderful town, great views of Florence and cool archaeological site with Etruscan and Roman stuff). So this was slow moving stuff, which means the track is quite spiky and just plain weird at all the spots I stood still to take photos. The knot on the lower left-ish part is where we sat for about an hour or so having a Spritz and some pasta.









After that we got back to our car (we remembered where it was but the navigation on the watch was helpful ) and I forgot to end the move. Doh. But that did show that the algorithm does a much better job understanding what the hell you're doing if you keep moving at the same or increasing speeds. The track shows some variations where we were stuck at a traffic light for a bit and it also shows the extra lap we made before we found the right way to get through Florence  Anyway, if it gets some mild improvements it'll be good enough for me. The data seems to be there, it's just not ironed out very neatly yet.








And about the black titanium: I'm not the overly careful type so if you are you may be able to keep the watch scratch free. I also have a lot of guitars and most of them are full of little dings and scratches. I buy stuff to use it, if it gets scratched in the process I consider that to add some character, I never worry about it ;-). If I get too many scratches on the bezel I'll tape off the screen and plastic and give the titanium a good polish with some mild sandpaper to even out the looks.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Unperson said:


> If I get too many scratches on the bezel I'll tape off the screen and plastic and give the titanium a good polish with some mild sandpaper to even out the looks.


Nice post (with the possible exception of the text I'm quoting). Thanks for sharing. I advise you to not use anything abrasive or that could in any way alter the surface of the bezel in its entirety. We do not know exactly the composition of the deposit used. We do not know how the bezel actually really participates in Satellite signal reception. The coating could be integral part of how signal reception is supposed to function as a whole. I would strongly advise to leave any scratches as they are. And just continue to use the watch. I agree with you, scratches do add character to stuff. My SSU has no scratches though  .....yet...


----------



## wayller

LONG_HAUL said:


> Nice post (with the possible exception of the text I'm quoting). Thanks for sharing. I advise you to not use anything abrasive or that could in any way alter the surface of the bezel in its entirety. We do not know exactly the composition of the deposit used. We do not know how the bezel actually really participates in Satellite signal reception. The coating could be integral part of how signal reception is supposed to function as a whole. I would strongly advise to leave any scratches as they are. And just continue to use the watch. I agree with you, scratches do add character to stuff. My SSU has no scratches though  .....yet...


I have my doubts about this. The paint doesn't effect the antenna. The metal is the antenna, not the paint.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Interesting demonstration of the reflections of GPS and the trying conditions watches have to deal with:

Walked up and back on the same side of the street (in a straight-ish line).


----------



## IronP

Hello guys! Back in the topic about battery:
Just for the record, today I did a long ride with the roadbike and here the results:
SSU settings:"1s" gps, cadence sensor, iPhone close by "receiving msgs", backlight at 40% and vibration on.
total time: 8h ride
battery state at the start: 99%
battery state at the end: 39%


----------



## LONG_HAUL

wayller said:


> I have my doubts about this. The paint doesn't effect the antenna. The metal is the antenna, not the paint.


I would politely suggest you spend some time learning the differences between 'effect' and 'affect'. There is a chance that was just a typo, but there is no way for me to know that from fact. Just like there is no way for us to know from fact that the coating of the bezel is purely cosmetic.


----------



## wayller

LONG_HAUL said:


> I would politely suggest you spend some time learning the differences between 'effect' and 'affect'. There is a chance that was just a typo, but there is no way for me to know that from fact. Just like there is no way for us to know from fact that the coating of the bezel is purely cosmetic.


Sorry, it was a typo. So could you explain me how the coating could affect the antenna? Do you even know how an antenna works? Then it would mean that every scratch you get will affect the antenna. Why do they sell the gray titanium model without any paint? Does it have a clear coating? What about the steel model without any paint? Is the black titanium better than the clear steel?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

wayller said:


> Sorry, it was a typo. So could you explain me how the coating could affect the antenna? Do you even know how an antenna works? Then it would mean that every scratch you get will affect the antenna. Why do they sell the gray titanium model without any paint? Does it have a clear coating? What about the steel model without any paint? Is the black titanium better than the clear steel?


Those are great questions that I think only the manufacturer of the specific watch could answer. EM coupling in complex arrangements is an art, not a science. You need to model designs in software. And even then only testing really tells whether your models hold water. My suggestion is to not brush it. You still have the choice.


----------



## Unperson

Until someone runs a chainsaw straight through a SSU we have no real way of knowing, that much is true, but I'm having a hard time thinking up a reason why the bezel is at all related to the antenna, much less the paint. I'm expecting the antenna to be more like a coil of copper wire on the inside of the watch. Or perhaps something completely different. If the entire bezel was the antenna then it would be substantially larger than the extra hump on the earlier Ambits. GPS performance seems to suggest it is not. Besides all that, if the bezel is part of the antenna that would mean there needs to be a connection between the inside of the watch and the bezel, for a watch that is water resistant to 10 bars that seems unlikely, but not impossible. So, anyone with too much cash and a heatgun lying around who wants to dissect one of these babies? ;-) If the colour of the bezel makes a difference, will red make it go faster? Hoopy! ;-)


----------



## costaxo

I have been reading countless posts on this thread about accuracy from you people. First I want to make clear that I don't own a Spartan. I've owned a1 a2 and now a3 though. From what I've seen all these years after 1300 moves is that almost never at least when I was looking my GPS tracks the track shown me running to the correct spot. Like most of the times if I'm running it will show me running in the middle of the road and 5-10m from where I'm actually running... Or whenever I'm running the trails and fire roads it'll show that I'm running 5-10m far from where I was actually running. The thing is that the watch almost always tracks the correct distance even though it seems that the track is wrong. The pace almost always is spot on. With that in mind what makes you think that if the GPS tracks shows you are running on the wrong side of the street isn't common and there's def something wrong with your watch? Anyway today I saw two moves made with spartan that stood out for me. You all ask LongHaul about his moves and the razor sharp GPS he claims he notices. Well I saw a marathon move today and the GPS tracked 42.2 km I guess that's spot on especially if you take into consideration the number of turns on that race. Another one I saw and basically what made me post on this thread was Miguel Hera's move on the ultra pirinieu race this weekend. Out of a race that claims 110km and 6800m elevation his spartan recorded 111 km and 6893m elevation... Now is that razorsharp enough for you???? 
Here's a link to his move

http://www.movescount.com/moves/move124452515

Once again I don't own a Spartan. I see a lot of yapping here cause I follow this thread. It's enormous. I was going to buy it but what I was reading here put me off. But from what I see the watch is a beast. I'll wait a bit more though.

Edit.. And wth ... Who thought it's a good idea to see if the watch produces good GPS track by testing it on a track. Come on guys..


----------



## LONG_HAUL

costaxo said:


> saw a marathon move today and the GPS tracked 42.2 km I guess that's spot on especially if you take into consideration the number of turns on that race. Another one I saw and basically what made me post on this thread was Miguel Hera's move on the ultra pirinieu race this weekend. Out of a race that claims 110km and 6800m elevation his spartan recorded 111 km and 6893m elevation... Now is that razorsharp enough for you????


Touché!


----------



## Tabinho

Don't own a SSU.

Earlier this year I was thinking of buying a gps watch. Started looking, reading, and ended up here and in Garmin's forum. Ended up buying an A3P due to the problems Garmin watches had (according to the forum). Never regretted it. Just love my watch. Suunto had all my respect and trust.

This thread seems to me like a Garmin forum. It doesn't matter if sometimes or some folks have a good performance, everyone should have a good performance. Clearly that is not the case and that is not good at all. I'll keep using my A3P and won't be getting a SSU anytime soon (if ever).


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Tabinho said:


> I'll keep using my A3P and won't be getting a SSU anytime soon (if ever).


You and I have similar stories. The difference being: I didn't buy a A3P. I can't tell you for certain why. Back in the days, I loved my FR405 and it had a little bulge. So I think I didn't want to go back to having to deal with a bulge. Sort of shallow but that's how it goes sometimes. So I waited. Coming from a long streak of Garmin watches.

I think that is how you and I fell into two different groups. You have already spent the cash that you would need to purchase a new watch. Any new watch. You may be able to exchange it but of course that would entail returning the A3P. But you are satisfied with it. Why give it back? So anyone would have a hard time selling you a new watch. I don't think you were in the target group for the SSU. I was. I was a sitting duck. And they got me. They got me bad. It is so comfortable in any sport I do, and goes so well with whatever I wear throughout the day. It is silly and superficial. But it works. At least for me. I'm addicted to this little thing. And I enjoy its strengths and limitations.


----------



## Tabinho

LONG_HAUL said:


> You and I have similar stories. The difference being: I didn't buy a A3P. I can't tell you for certain why. Back in the days, I loved my FR405 and it had a little bulge. So I think I didn't want to go back to having to deal with a bulge. Sort of shallow but that's how it goes sometimes. So I waited. Coming from a long streak of Garmin watches.
> 
> I think that is how you and I fell into two different groups. You have already spent the cash that you would need to purchase a new watch. Any new watch. You may be able to exchange it but of course that would entail returning the A3P. But you are satisfied with it. Why give it back? So anyone would have a hard time selling you a new watch. I don't think you were in the target group for the SSU. I was. I was a sitting duck. And they got me. They got me bad. It is so comfortable in any sport I do, and goes so well with whatever I wear throughout the day. It is silly and superficial. But it works. At least for me. I'm addicted to this little thing. And I enjoy its strengths and limitations.


I was and I am . I love my watch but want a better suit and tie watch to be able to use everyday. I'm supposed to buy one watch per year (my present to myself) and I already know which one I won't be picking.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Tabinho said:


> I was and I am . I love my watch but want a better suit and tie watch to be able to use everyday. I'm supposed to buy one watch per year (my present to myself) and I already know which one I won't be picking.


You will not be picking a Spartan. Because not everyone here on this forum is reporting having a good experience.


----------



## martowl

costaxo said:


> I have been reading countless posts on this thread about accuracy from you people. First I want to make clear that I don't own a Spartan. I've owned a1 a2 and now a3 though. From what I've seen all these years after 1300 moves is that almost never at least when I was looking my GPS tracks the track shown me running to the correct spot. Like most of the times if I'm running it will show me running in the middle of the road and 5-10m from where I'm actually running... Or whenever I'm running the trails and fire roads it'll show that I'm running 5-10m far from where I was actually running. The thing is that the watch almost always tracks the correct distance even though it seems that the track is wrong. The pace almost always is spot on. With that in mind what makes you think that if the GPS tracks shows you are running on the wrong side of the street isn't common and there's def something wrong with your watch? Anyway today I saw two moves made with spartan that stood out for me. You all ask LongHaul about his moves and the razor sharp GPS he claims he notices. Well I saw a marathon move today and the GPS tracked 42.2 km I guess that's spot on especially if you take into consideration the number of turns on that race. Another one I saw and basically what made me post on this thread was Miguel Hera's move on the ultra pirinieu race this weekend. Out of a race that claims 110km and 6800m elevation his spartan recorded 111 km and 6893m elevation... Now is that razorsharp enough for you????
> Here's a link to his move
> 
> http://www.movescount.com/moves/move124452515
> 
> Once again I don't own a Spartan. I see a lot of yapping here cause I follow this thread. It's enormous. I was going to buy it but what I was reading here put me off. But from what I see the watch is a beast. I'll wait a bit more though.
> 
> Edit.. And wth ... Who thought it's a good idea to see if the watch produces good GPS track by testing it on a track. Come on guys..


Nice!


----------



## bluelee333633

detail review in Chinese， various GPS condition test for everyone 's reference.

http://iranshao.com/diaries/193967

从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## d2i23

LONG_HAUL said:


> I would politely suggest you spend some time learning the differences between 'effect' and 'affect'. There is a chance that was just a typo, but there is no way for me to know that from fact. Just like there is no way for us to know from fact that the coating of the bezel is purely cosmetic.


.... man. You are an ........o|o|


----------



## XCJagge

costaxo said:


> . Out of a race that claims 110km and 6800m elevation his spartan recorded 111 km and 6893m elevation... Now is that razorsharp enough for you????.


First 20 minutes is fine, then it gets worse bit by bit and from 40 minutes on satellites are lost and there is no points at all but just straight line for next 20 minutes. I haven't seen nowhere near that bad performance ever with my SSU yet, maybe that was made using some sort of power save mode, and glonass not being enabled affects tracking in canyons. So no, this is not razorsharp enough. And I don't think anyone should think this is a good example of the the kind of performance SSU is expected to end up producing.

Distance ending up about right by luck should not convince anyone. And distance is not all there is, for example in my use cases the distance measured is totally irrelevant. For races I pretty much never look at the distance, even afterwards. Recorded track is far more useful and interesting (for post race analysis).


----------



## WEM

Hey! Back with a few new experiences...

Was out Saturday for a longer tour:


In about 7,5h of training in GPS best with HR belt I got a battery drain from 99 -> 52%. 6,25% per hour, 16h of battery live.


What I observed:
* After about 5h HR din't work anymore (no data). I think this was allready reported a few times here.
* asc/desc sums are wrong: while descending the asc sum did jump 100m up while the altitude value was ok... At the end I did have about 250-300m more in asc/desc sum, than in reality. Someone also have problem with this?


----------



## IronP

WEM said:


> Hey! Back with a few new experiences...
> 
> Was out Saturday for a longer tour:
> 
> In about 7,5h of training in GPS best with HR belt I got a battery drain from 99 -> 52%. 6,25% per hour, 16h of battery live.
> 
> What I observed:
> * After about 5h HR din't work anymore (no data). I think this was allready reported a few times here.
> * asc/desc sums are wrong: while descending the asc sum did jump 100m up while the altitude value was ok... At the end I did have about 250-300m more in asc/desc sum, than in reality. Someone also have problem with this?


I did as well a long training session yesterday (copy below)....but no problems about HR or altitude, although my SSU battery drain was higher than yours:
Hello guys! Back in the topic about battery:Just for the record, today I did a long ride with the roadbike and here the results:
SSU settings:"1s" gps, cadence sensor, iPhone close by "receiving msgs", backlight at 40% and vibration on.
total time: 8h ride
battery state at the start: 99%
battery state at the end: 39%​


----------



## jeremy1271

costaxo said:


> With that in mind what makes you think that if the GPS tracks shows you are running on the wrong side of the street isn't common and there's def something wrong with your watch?


I guess this one is for me because of the screen capture I produced (SSU vs A3P) 
Let's make it clear: it's not about a track that is on the wrong side of the street, it's more about this questions: If a 2 years old sports watch can make it, why the next generation and most expensive watch from the same brand can't ? If it's only about the fact that this new watch is not mature and this will be tweaked with an update, that's fine ! I'll wait. If not, I'll stay with my A3P and the SSU will be sold. That's it.


----------



## bluelee333633

I added "FREE DIVING" sport mode to SSU and tested it in a 2 meter deep swimming pool. the watch showed the altitude instead of water depth. and minimum -1000m altitude reached when half way to the pool button, with further down to the water the altitude did not change.

simply add a equation may solve the problem changing barometer data to water depth. but i worry about the hardware limitation that the barometer cannot measure the water depth when the pressure exceed the minimum -1000 meter altitude air pressure.

Li_Yinzhe 的 0:00 时 自由潜水 Move

and here is my poolswimming data

Li_Yinzhe 的 0:10 时 泳池游泳 Move

auto interval function is excellent. but i need to adjust pool length everytime starting the recording.
the above move is recorded in a 50 meters pool, i forget to set the right length, the distance is cut by half(recorded as 25m pool), but still a very accuracy record.

suunto need to figure out how to set the SSU default pool length is the one used latest just like A3P.

and a quick gps test is also performed when I travelled in a bus.

Li_Yinzhe 的 0:33 时 跑步 Move

when bus stops the gps signal are not steady (floating around)and likely to be lost.
when GPS signal is lost, SSU stop record the data and when gps is back online, the watch form a straight line to the cut a corner or to say cut the distance when the signal is lost.
large deviation of the route recorded compared to the real road when speed is low.


----------



## MiGRcz

Philip Onayeti said:


> The battery doesn't last the same as an Ambit Sport. My usual day would be 1hr tracked exercise in the morning and then off to work with the Spartan. Great for notifications. I use the stopwatch a lot at work and unfortunately I have found the auto backlight causes the Spartan to chew through the battery. It lasts less than two days. I turned off the auto light and it was somewhat better but in general use the backlight is useful for readability.
> 
> On day out MTBing: 4hrs 45min. 100% at start. 32% when finished. Mixed forest. Two stops where I changed the GPS to OK (cannot turn off like the Traverse) to save power.
> 
> I would say the Sport is a day watch. Needs topping up daily if you want to be confident to have it ready to go.
> 
> oops for got to quote your post MiGRcz


This is a bit disappointing. I thought it would survive at least one week. Thanks for the data.


----------



## FryeX

costaxo said:


> Now is that razorsharp enough for you????
> Here's a link to his move
> 
> MiguelAHeras's 12:06 h Trail running Move


If you take a closer look at the actual track it is not even close to being sharp. And even further from razor sharp. In the standard ballpark of the SSU tracks. Also not the worst track I've seen from SSU. Still waiting for that first razor sharp track.

And I'm not saying that the totals could not be important, those are. But so is the track.

So still waiting for the first razor sharp GPS track


----------



## Philip Onayeti

MiGRcz said:


> This is a bit disappointing. I thought it would survive at least one week. Thanks for the data.


Today started at 100%
1hr5min MTB ride.
30min swim (no GPS)
Wore it all day but no specific use except for notifications
now 70%


----------



## Philip Onayeti

FryeX said:


> So still waiting for the first razor sharp GPS track


Got one today (finally!)

However on forestry roads with light tree cover.


----------



## MiGRcz

Philip Onayeti said:


> Today started at 100%
> 1hr5min MTB ride.
> 30min swim (no GPS)
> Wore it all day but no specific use except for notifications
> now 70%


Thanks again. I don't want to guess what OHR will cause once they introduce it.


----------



## jeremy1271

Razor sharp on some parts this morning... SSU counting 23,6km in red, A3P counting 24,4km in blue. Loved the part around the lake in north. Have fun !















To add some informations: I went for this run with the SSU at 100% battery and came back home at 84% (No HR, no other connections) which is OK to me)


----------



## LONG_HAUL

bluelee333633 said:


> detail review in Chinese， various GPS condition test for everyone 's reference.《Suunto新旗舰--Suunto Spartan Ultra评测》by way11 - 爱燃烧


That is pretty detailed. Google translation highlights:"...watch the bottom of the small tail...""...you can rest assured that go bump...""...there is no sense of violation...""...for the full horse and ultra-long-distance road race horses, there may be some of the burden...""...you can see from the figure three basic coincidence, the error can be ignored..."


----------



## FryeX

Philip Onayeti said:


> Got one today (finally!)


Looks very good from the part that we can see. Thank you!


----------



## currozgz

My accuracy gps race (42,1km) yesterday in Zaragoza's Marathon (Spain) with SSU

strava.com/activities/724285959


----------



## IronP

Guys.....just remind that in two days we are going to have an ALARM in our SSU!!
Unfortunately nothing about GLONASS activation, but we will be able to change the colours of the watch faces.....:-x:-xo|


----------



## XCJagge

I have a feeling some kind of software bug may be behind these large errors making track go so "nicely" parallel with true route but ~200 m away. Looks like it is often all wrong even if it is open with no trees or anything, you just have first been somewhere more challenging place to make it go off. I am sure if you start your watch anywhere there where it is way of it will find it's location just fine and far more accurately than the recorded track. Seriously, antenna/chip in SSU isnt so bad is gets location 200m wrong when sky is open. And track is usually just fine at first. Feels like watch knows it is wrong but does not jump immediately right to not make it look bad and spiky but instead it slowly moves back right, like there is some kind of error buffer it slowly tries to run down, but does it too way too slowly and never really manages to do it.


----------



## capcav73

XCJagge said:


> I have a feeling some kind of software bug may be behind these large errors making track go so "nicely" parallel with true route but ~200 m away. Looks like it is often all wrong even if it is open with no trees or anything, you just have first been somewhere more challenging place to make it go off. I am sure if you start your watch anywhere there where it is way of it will find it's location just fine and far more accurately than the recorded track. Seriously, antenna/chip in SSU isnt so bad is gets location 200m wrong when sky is open. And track is usually just fine at first. Feels like watch knows it is wrong but does not jump immediately right to not make it look bad and spiky but instead it slowly moves back right, like there is some kind of error buffer it slowly tries to run down, but does it too way too slowly and never really manages to do it.


Totally agree.


----------



## jeremy1271

I also agree. But it's like the compass (calibrated in my SSU) is playing a role when the GPS is having hard times but they don't speak the same language.


----------



## Hecke

XCJagge said:


> Feels like watch knows it is wrong but does not jump immediately right to not make it look bad and spiky but instead it slowly moves back right, like there is some kind of error buffer it slowly tries to run down, but does it too way too slowly and never really manages to do it.


I totally agree, this is my feeling too. All the more I am worried that nothing in their roadmap points to GPS algorithms.
Here is another run which nicely shows this behavior:







hecke's 3:31 h Running Move
You can trust me that I reached my home where I started from when I stopped the move. Also you see that the track matches nicely the outline of the dreaded valley (as I like to call it, it always messes with the SSU) but only 200m east. Even though there was about a mile of open field in the end, where I bet the watch knew where it was, it did not jump back into a correct spot.

So please, Suunto, fix this. Or just hand me the source code and I'll play with it myself.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Hecke said:


> You can trust me that I reached my home where I started from when I stopped the move. Also you see that the track matches nicely the outline of the dreaded valley (as I like to call it, it always messes with the SSU) .


That's odd. I wonder why I do not get that behavior. What is the vegetation in the dreaded valley? Is your PC going through a VPN when you use the PC app Suuntolink?


----------



## XCJagge

If someone can reproduce this easily, how about instead of stopping it simply letting the watch log tracck in open place for 20 minutes or so. Would be interesting to se will it eventualy find its way home or will it stay offsetted for evermore. And then sending that to Suunto folks to study.

My SSU is not immune to this, it has happenned twice. It can be gps firmware issue and possybly bug is in sirf's codebase (if suunto is still using sirf's chip).


----------



## zvojan

Today's move with recorded points with both watches. 3 km with track back ( 6km together). Something went wrong with SSU, don't know what. Look at the recorded points at clear sky for SSU

good old A3P









bad new SSU


----------



## BobMiles

I bet they use a Kalman filter to process their data and badly messed up its parameters! 
It would be nice to test if it goes back into position when the move is not stopped...


----------



## PTBC

Definitely very variable...from the same track (not a multisport session)







Apparently I went for a swim

further round in a trail section along the river and below the road, so a large bank to the side and full tree coverage (on the left side of the shot) an area I would expect it to difficulty and it's spot on









I had problems with syncing and routes disappearing of watch so suspect the compass wasn't calibrated.
A failed sync on the IOS app still shows a big green tick, it's only says failed in small font below


----------



## zvojan

costaxo said:


> I have been reading countless posts on this thread about accuracy from you people. First I want to make clear that I don't own a Spartan. I've owned a1 a2 and now a3 though. From what I've seen all these years after 1300 moves is that almost never at least when I was looking my GPS tracks the track shown me running to the correct spot. Like most of the times if I'm running it will show me running in the middle of the road and 5-10m from where I'm actually running... Or whenever I'm running the trails and fire roads it'll show that I'm running 5-10m far from where I was actually running. The thing is that the watch almost always tracks the correct distance even though it seems that the track is wrong. The pace almost always is spot on. With that in mind what makes you think that if the GPS tracks shows you are running on the wrong side of the street isn't common and there's def something wrong with your watch? Anyway today I saw two moves made with spartan that stood out for me. You all ask LongHaul about his moves and the razor sharp GPS he claims he notices. Well I saw a marathon move today and the GPS tracked 42.2 km I guess that's spot on especially if you take into consideration the number of turns on that race. Another one I saw and basically what made me post on this thread was Miguel Hera's move on the ultra pirinieu race this weekend. Out of a race that claims 110km and 6800m elevation his spartan recorded 111 km and 6893m elevation... Now is that razorsharp enough for you????
> Here's a link to his move
> 
> MiguelAHeras's 12:06 h Trail running Move
> 
> Once again I don't own a Spartan. I see a lot of yapping here cause I follow this thread. It's enormous. I was going to buy it but what I was reading here put me off. But from what I see the watch is a beast. I'll wait a bit more though.
> 
> Edit.. And wth ... Who thought it's a good idea to see if the watch produces good GPS track by testing it on a track. Come on guys..


Uaaauuu !!!!!!! Deep respect to this guy 

but I need some explanation here

is that razor sharp from this track?









maybe this?








wait...maybe this?









or maybe this?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Is everyone experiencing issues located in Europe?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## IronP

LONG_HAUL said:


> Is everyone experiencing issues located in Europe?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In switzerland/zurich no issues.
Just synced a move.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jeremy1271

LONG_HAUL said:


> Is everyone experiencing issues located in Europe?


That would be a scandal.....Made in Finland


----------



## rdm01

zvojan said:


> Uaaauuu !!!!!!! Deep respect to this guy
> 
> but I need some explanation here
> 
> is that razor sharp from this track?
> 
> View attachment 9472954
> 
> 
> maybe this?
> View attachment 9472970
> 
> 
> wait...maybe this?
> 
> View attachment 9472986
> 
> 
> or maybe this?
> View attachment 9472994


Well actually it's not bad at all. Check your A3 tracks and you'll see lots of things like this

deporteporvida.com


----------



## johan6504

rdm01 said:


> Well actually it's not bad at all. Check your A3 tracks and you'll see lots of things like this
> 
> deporteporvida.com


But when I look at tracks from TomTom runner or Polar V800 I almost never ever see these kind of anomalies.
This is a link to a run from this summer. It was recorded in south of France with my V800. Very GPS-demanding, but almost no anomalies. This is as close to razor sharp trail run I have ever gotten, and it is what I expect from an expensive high end watch from Suunto.

Johan6504's 1:56 h Running Move
Another run in the same area
Johan6504's 1:17 h Running Move


----------



## WEM

Hi,

did a deep lock on my track. Here you can see the strange jumps in altitude. First one about 50m, second about 100m.









Noone else have this issue?

br
Werner


----------



## johan6504

WEM said:


> Hi,
> 
> did a deep lock on my track. Here you can see the strange jumps in altitude. First one about 50m, second about 100m.
> 
> View attachment 9474530
> 
> 
> Noone else have this issue?
> 
> br
> Werner


No but I found this instead


----------



## rdm01

johan6504 said:


> But when I look at tracks from TomTom runner or Polar V800 I almost never ever see these kind of anomalies.
> This is a link to a run from this summer. It was recorded in south of France with my V800. Very GPS-demanding, but almost no anomalies. This is as close to razor sharp trail run I have ever gotten, and it is what I expect from an expensive high end watch from Suunto.
> 
> Johan6504's 1:56 h Running Move
> Another run in the same area
> Johan6504's 1:17 h Running Move


Take a look to my A3 Peak having a bad day in a challenging zone http://www.movescount.com/moves/move62996130

It was very unusual but something it happens

deporteporvida.com


----------



## FryeX

I think I have at last a track that is closer to truth on Spartan than on F3HR. There are spots still that F3HR nails better, but overall my impression is that SSU wins this round. At least the tracks are more neatly grouped. USe the satellite view when checking against the map.

http://www.mygpsfiles.com/app/#ptVd2YOp


----------



## johan6504

rdm01 said:


> Take a look to my A3 Peak having a bad day in a challenging zone RicardoDiazMartin's 0:52 h Trail running Move
> 
> It was very unusual but something it happens
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I can honestly say that I have never seen anything that bad with my TomTom runner or my Polar V800. I have encountered runs where the watch has crashed due to a bug or similar but never that bad tracking. With all the knowledge that must have been gathered by now, I just dont understand why it is so hard to make a GPS watch that performs well from the beginning. Garmin failed hard with the Fenix 3 and now Suunto is very close to do exactly the same. I keep wondering, why are they doing this? Is all the knowledge from earlier development lost?


----------



## PTBC

FryeX said:


> I think I have at last a track that is closer to truth on Spartan than on F3HR. There are spots still that F3HR nails better, but overall my impression is that SSU wins this round. At least the tracks are more neatly grouped. USe the satellite view when checking against the map.
> 
> MyGPSFiles


Looks like a much tighter track on Spartan, other than the start of the far left corner where i seems to drift more

I was wondering which one has the correct altitude? looks like they tracked the same movement, but started out differently. Also Spartan altitude track looks 'blockier', is that less data points I wonder (F3 has 15% more data points it seems)

Also distance is 400m different, so as the Spartan has the better track I assume that is more accurate?


----------



## Ingo

zvojan said:


> Uaaauuu !!!!!!! Deep respect to this guy
> 
> but I need some explanation here
> 
> is that razor sharp from this track?
> 
> maybe this?
> 
> wait...maybe this?
> 
> or maybe this?


Just throwing this out there but do we know how accurate all these trail and OSM maps actually are - are they based on official topographic maps? Not sure how these internet maps are being generated and maintained and maybe it's using some Wikipedia like crowd sourcing approach but then maybe a lot of controversy started with one "bad" track that became a "bad" trail on a some map and now we're comparing everything against it and say the GPS was off (instead of the trail on that map instead). I am not talking about all these obvious error deviations.


----------



## FryeX

PTBC said:


> Also Spartan altitude track looks 'blockier', is that less data points I wonder (F3 has 15% more data points it seems)
> 
> Also distance is 400m different, so as the Spartan has the better track I assume that is more accurate?


True distance is somewhere between. Closer to Spartan than F3HR though. Spartan altimeter is a mess. If I walk around the 400m track at the right end of the tracks I posted SSU reports 0 change in altitude and the track is flat. F3HR has no issues following the small altitude changes on that part of the track. Looks like some kind of noise filtering is a bit too tight.


----------



## d2i23

johan6504 said:


> But when I look at tracks from TomTom runner or Polar V800 I almost never ever see these kind of anomalies.
> This is a link to a run from this summer. It was recorded in south of France with my V800. Very GPS-demanding, but almost no anomalies. This is as close to razor sharp trail run I have ever gotten, and it is what I expect from an expensive high end watch from Suunto.
> 
> Johan6504's 1:56 h Running Move
> Another run in the same area
> Johan6504's 1:17 h Running Move


These are very nice indeed. How did you managed to get them on movescount.com I have a bunch of old gpx files that I can't import in movescount as moves.... only as tracks


----------



## rdm01

johan6504 said:


> I can honestly say that I have never seen anything that bad with my TomTom runner or my Polar V800. I have encountered runs where the watch has crashed due to a bug or similar but never that bad tracking. With all the knowledge that must have been gathered by now, I just dont understand why it is so hard to make a GPS watch that performs well from the beginning. Garmin failed hard with the Fenix 3 and now Suunto is very close to do exactly the same. I keep wondering, why are they doing this? Is all the knowledge from earlier development lost?


The V800 isn't perfect. I also own one and sometimes it didn't so good as the A3 does (specially during the first part of an activity). Any GPS on your wrist isn't. As fellrnr use to say also the best GPS has a bad day.

To be clear, I'm not talking about Spartan accuracy is at the same level than V800 and A3. My tests say it's not. Is it enough to be usable? IMHO it is. We have to decide by ourselves.

BTW the A3 bad track I show happened only one time in a whole year of intensive use.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## edit0r

johan6504 said:


> But when I look at tracks from TomTom runner or Polar V800 I almost never ever see these kind of anomalies.
> This is a link to a run from this summer. It was recorded in south of France with my V800. Very GPS-demanding, but almost no anomalies. This is as close to razor sharp trail run I have ever gotten, and it is what I expect from an expensive high end watch from Suunto.
> 
> Johan6504's 1:56 h Running Move
> Another run in the same area
> Johan6504's 1:17 h Running Move


Very good GPS tracking ! It's what I like and used to !

I also expect the Spartan to perform as good as the Polar V800.
I blame the market... the companies... they always make us believe that what is new and expensive is always better... it has new features and new technologies that make things even better... more precise.
Their marketing teams raise our hopes shy high, making us to rush at the first the store and wait in line for hours if necessary to get the latest and greatest tech.
This is the society we live in... they feed on our desire to have something better than the last one.

And then... when our shiny new toy is not up to the performances of the former...


----------



## johan6504

d2i23 said:


> These are very nice indeed. How did you managed to get them on movescount.com I have a bunch of old gpx files that I can't import in movescount as moves.... only as tracks


It is a little complicated on a PC but I use SyncMyTracks - Sincroniza tu actividades deportivas with Bluestacks - The World's Largest Mobile Gaming Platform on PC. Bluestack is an application to enable Android applications to run on PC.


----------



## wayller

If the SSU uses the same chipset as the Ambit 3 (SiRFstar V), I think we could expect it to get better, maybe as good as Ambit 3. I think it's a software issue. The Ambit 2 GPS accuracy got a lot better from FW version 2.0.7 to 2.0.11. Why shouldn't it get better with SSU? Also, when we get GPS + Glonass, the accuracy will improve. You will get good GPS accuracy when you are in an area with good GPS signal, but when you get to a place with mountains, trees and buildings, only GPS isn't enough.

GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips

Here you can see, both V800 and Ambit 3 use the SiRFstar GPS chipset, and most of the SiRFstar chipset are good. Garmin uses Mediatek in the Fenix 3, and it isn't as good as the SiRFstar.


----------



## Hecke

LONG_HAUL said:


> That's odd. I wonder why I do not get that behavior. What is the vegetation in the dreaded valley? Is your PC going through a VPN when you use the PC app Suuntolink?


I get this kind of behavior quite frequently. 
Actually, when I go through the dreaded valley initially, the track will eventually find its way back to the actual position:
hecke's 1:05 h Trail running Move
btw: What is the line around 2.5k? Is this a correction? Did the watch really think this is the current position?

Here it goes off in the valley, finds its position at the turn in the east, only to lose it again in the downwards vally:
hecke's 0:54 h Running Move

the dreaded valley is kind of OK (still not accurate enough for serious navigation) but it loses the position entirely in the second half of the run, with only tree cover and no valley:
hecke's 0:52 h Trail running Move

The dreaded valley is under tree cover, but not what I would consider dense forest. There is the occasional sky view and the trees are about 15m apart to the sides of the forest road. 
I even thought about some radio source there, but the nearest cellular masts are about 3k away. In the vicinity is an old watch post from the west side of the old German inner border, so maybe there are some leftovers from the cold war. But I expect those remains to be passive and not actively distorting radio signals.

I am using SuuntoLink on a MacBook in the wireless LAN in my home which is connected to the providers DSL box. No VPN or other funny business.

Please, please, software fixes!


----------



## tinu80

wayller said:


> If the SSU uses the same chipset as the Ambit 3 (SiRFstar V), I think we could expect it to get better, maybe as good as Ambit 3. I think it's a software issue. The Ambit 2 GPS accuracy got a lot better from FW version 2.0.7 to 2.0.11. Why shouldn't it get better with SSU? Also, when we get GPS + Glonass, the accuracy will improve. You will get good GPS accuracy when you are in an area with good GPS signal, but when you get to a place with mountains, trees and buildings, only GPS isn't enough.
> 
> GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips
> 
> Here you can see, both V800 and Ambit 3 use the SiRFstar GPS chipset, and most of the SiRFstar chipset are good. Garmin uses Mediatek in the Fenix 3, and it isn't as good as the SiRFstar.


Chipset is of course an important factor, but not the only one. At least as important is antenna design. But i tend to say as well that there is quite a potential for improvement in the software part. Especially those tracks that seem to be shifted, but otherwise seem to have the same shape as the road/path followed.

Another word to Glonass. I think people often misunterstand the function/impact of Glonass. With Glonass activated you just receive potentially more (good) satellites for triangulation, that's it.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

FryeX said:


> F3HR has no issues following the small altitude changes on that part of the track.


And yet fails when following large elevation changes while navigating actual hills. Always translating tiny changes is barometer input as changes in elevation does not make a watch automatically useful for navigating real life challenging topography. And perhaps, for that purpose, it would work better if it did NOT report on such insignificant changes. Blending GPS vertical positioning and barometer input is complex. There is always a compromise.


----------



## bryanredneck27

-1 day to have a watch ⌚ with an alarm  I am soooo excited


----------



## tinu80

WEM said:


> Hi,
> 
> did a deep lock on my track. Here you can see the strange jumps in altitude. First one about 50m, second about 100m.
> 
> Noone else have this issue?
> 
> br
> Werner


I just looked through my altitude graphs, and I can't see this behaviour in my >30 moves so far. They look really smooth, and generally ascend-descend values are quite good (but not the vertical speed data, unfortunately).
Are all of your altitude graphs like this?


----------



## capcav73

WEM said:


> Hi,
> 
> did a deep lock on my track. Here you can see the strange jumps in altitude. First one about 50m, second about 100m.
> 
> View attachment 9474530
> 
> 
> Noone else have this issue?
> 
> br
> Werner


Same thing for me. I'm Waiting for the next update before asking for maintenance


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> And yet fails when following large elevation changes while navigating actual hills. Always translating tiny changes is barometer input as changes in elevation does not make a watch automatically useful for navigating real life challenging topography. And perhaps, for that purpose, it would work better if it did NOT report on such insignificant changes. Blending GPS vertical positioning and barometer input is complex. There is always a compromise.


Not my experience at all when I went to Austria for hiking and biking in June with F3HR. Maybe you had a broken unit? Anyway I do not understand how a flat altitude line on a variable altitude track is a good thing. It could be that this unit that I have is broken. Suunto support is investigating the data. Today only sitting at my desk SSU altimeter has drifted from 140->145m. F3HR is still at 140 sharp. Both taken off charger and calibrated at the same time three hours ago. I am 100% certain that the altitude changes are much less here than they were while I was walking.

Edit: Now it is 6 meters off from the calibrated value. While sitting at my desk.


----------



## rdm01

FryeX said:


> Not my experience at all when I went to Austria for hiking and biking in June with F3HR. Maybe you had a broken unit? Anyway I do not understand how a flat altitude line on a variable altitude track is a good thing. It could be that this unit that I have is broken. Suunto support is investigating the data. Today only sitting at my desk SSU altimeter has drifted from 140->145m. F3HR is still at 140 sharp. Both taken off charger and calibrated at the same time three hours ago. I am 100% certain that the altitude changes are much less here than they were while I was walking.
> 
> Edit: Now it is 6 meters off from the calibrated value. While sitting at my desk.


You're sitting at your desk but are they (F3 and SSU) lying on the desktop or are you wearing both of them? I'm asking because if the SSU is on your wrist it's interpreting barometric changes as altitude changes because you are moving your wrist (typing keyboard). So the SSU thinks you're walking.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## FryeX

rdm01 said:


> You're sitting at your desk but are they (F3 and SSU) lying on the desktop or are you wearing both of them? I'm asking because if the SSU is on your wrist it's interpreting barometric changes as altitude changes because you are moving your wrist (typing keyboard). So the SSU thinks you're walking.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


They are on my wrist, both. F3HR does not have any issue with me typing along. It is still spot on. And definitely the movement SSU is getting from the wrist is nowhere near walking. It is basically sitting still. Although there is small movement.


----------



## rdm01

FryeX said:


> They are on my wrist, both. F3HR does not have any issue with me typing along. It is still spot on. And definitely the movement SSU is getting from the wrist is nowhere near walking. It is basically sitting still. Although there is small movement.


Thanks for the info. So there's a problem with that also :-\

deporteporvida.com


----------



## FryeX

rdm01 said:


> Thanks for the info. So there's a problem with that also :-\
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Well as I said earlier, my SSU could be broken. Suunto support is investigating the data. But definitely this particular unit does not detect small changes in altitude while walking (+/- 2m) But while typing at desk is happily reporting 6m increase in height.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

FryeX said:


> Maybe you had a broken unit?


Yep. Every single one of them. For many straight years. All broken straight out of the box. Sourcing quality is not at the top of the priority list for all manufacturers. Over the past years though, I have learned to associate equipment that says "made in Finland" to sourcing of high quality components. Not so much for all the made in China stuff you can buy (although still paying a lot).


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> Yep. Every single one of them. For many straight years. All broken straight out of the box. Sourcing quality is not at the top of the priority list for all manufacturers. Over the past years though, I have learned to associate equipment that says "made in Finland" to sourcing of high quality components. Not so much for all the made in China stuff you can buy (although still paying a lot).


I am from Finland so trust me I would like to see Polar or Suunto shine. That is why I got the SSU in the first place. Hopefully they deliver as in it's current state SSU is pretty much falling short on every area there is when I compare it to the F3HR I have. One day I would love to get back to a great working device from Finland! Again credits to the multisport, automatic/manual laps on Suunto and the automatic Swim intervals, those are hands down better than on F3HR. So there is definitely potential there.


----------



## jimmysalvo

LONG_HAUL said:


> Yep. Every single one of them. For many straight years. All broken straight out of the box. Sourcing quality is not at the top of the priority list for all manufacturers. Over the past years though, I have learned to associate equipment that says "made in Finland" to sourcing of high quality components. Not so much for all the made in China stuff you can buy (although still paying a lot).


Hi,

Have you found some time to post your moves? I mean, the razor sharp ones

Thanks


----------



## WEM

tinu80 said:


> I just looked through my altitude graphs, and I can't see this behaviour in my >30 moves so far. They look really smooth, and generally ascend-descend values are quite good (but not the vertical speed data, unfortunately).
> Are all of your altitude graphs like this?


Hi. No - I saw this only in stated move and one more. I saw also that all occurrences happen while descending in over 2000m elevation. The track altitude looks pretty good the rest of the track...
No idea what happend here.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

FryeX said:


> I am from Finland so trust me I would like to see Polar or Suunto shine.


Trust, but verify. Remember? And for some people "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence". Not saying that's your case. Just reminding you this thread is not about your nationality.

Sourcing poor quality components is an affliction that has taken down many before. Just look at the quality of the backlight some watches have. Or the materials used in the band and case.


----------



## bluelee333633

https://www.movescount.com/moves/move124850903

my SSU move of 400m circle.

almost 13 rounds. SSU recorded 5.15km. very good gps accuracy and distance calculation.

but before this move, i also did a hiking test

https://www.movescount.com/moves/move124837764

i moved relatively slower than my running, gps not good. but i intentionaly did a very small forward and back test with a very small circle about 5meter in diameter as you can see from the lower right of the gps track, SSU tracked right on which surprise me, but after that the track start to float around a little.

从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## Hecke

bluelee333633 said:


> https://www.movescount.com/moves/move124850903


Funny how the map does not match the sattelite image, which seems to be in agreement to your track...


----------



## PTBC

Ingo said:


> Just throwing this out there but do we know how accurate all these trail and OSM maps actually are - are they based on official topographic maps? Not sure how these internet maps are being generated and maintained and maybe it's using some Wikipedia like crowd sourcing approach but then maybe a lot of controversy started with one "bad" track that became a "bad" trail on a some map and now we're comparing everything against it and say the GPS was off (instead of the trail on that map instead). I am not talking about all these obvious error deviations.


I've have seen a coupe of small points where the trail on the map is wrong based on trails I know reasonably well (map shows trail going through the river instead of alongside on satellite overlay, another has a small difference on the trail route in mapbox vs google), but not enough to explain differences, also the SSU track should then be consistently out which it isn't.


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> Trust, but verify. Remember?


You can easily check the tracks I have posted here that all of them originate from Finland. Coincidence? And would I put down over 600€ of a secondary watch if I wanted that watch / brand to fail? Very unlikely. I could have just kept enjoying my F3HR and watch from the side . So Verified. Now waiting for verification of razor sharp GPS.


----------



## XCJagge

Just to to give some perspective, here is example of the accuracy I usually get with my trackpod. For me anything less accurate than this is not razor sharp. 
MyGPSFiles

Note, even if it does not look like it (because line style used is too thick for this accuracy) there is 8 rounds. You can pretty much see the lane I was running.


----------



## FryeX

Here are few more tracks. Again neither is a clear winner. SSU altimeter is doing it's thing again. Good enough? I can live with these tracks, except the SSU altitude track. Would I call these sharp? Nope. MyGPSFiles


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Hecke said:


> Funny how the map does not match the sattelite image, which seems to be in agreement to your track...


Nothing funny at all. Google Maps has a (Chinese-government-instituted, back from when Google was actually allowed to work in China) offset to the GPS which Mapbox or Gaode Ditu (the "Map of China" provider option) don't have. I had to talk about that at length when I made my Ambit(3) manual videos, because it made things quite difficult at times.


----------



## PTBC

I'm still inclined to think that the watch doesn't handle losing the signal well and that issues with the compass aren't helping that. Anyone have the compass declination change to a value you haven't set? Mine keeps setting itself to 17.2 (local declination is 16.3) even though I set it on the watch or Movescount to 16.5


----------



## LONG_HAUL

FryeX said:


> I could have just kept enjoying my F3HR and watch from the side . So Verified.


I'm not sure that's exactly what I meant. In a remarkable coincidence, and I apologize for going back to the "greener grass" saying, there is a theory that suggests the fame Sparta enjoys is rooted in the fact that all surviving accounts of Sparta were written by non-Spartans who often presented an excessively idealized image of the city. Hope your disappointment with your own national brands is not at the root of the admiration you have for the F3HR.



FryeX said:


> Now waiting for verification of razor sharp GPS.


May I suggest you sell your F3HR and buy some popcorn with the money? That will hopefully make your wait not as frustrating. And you may even end up with some change.

In terms of degradation of track quality starting with the 1.1.30 update, I can't tell for certain that there wasn't a change. Because I don't have software for doing that kind of analysis. And I'm constantly producing tracks way faster than I can inspect them. But simply based on a few samples, and noting when posters here started to report the behavior, there is a chance an issue could have been introduced then. Any of you looking at that? On your own tracks for the same roads/trails? Update was on the 8th.


----------



## wayller

LONG_HAUL said:


> I'm not sure that's exactly what I meant. In a remarkable coincidence, and I apologize for going back to the "greener grass" saying, there is a theory that suggests the fame Sparta enjoys is rooted in the fact that all surviving accounts of Sparta were written by non-Spartans who often presented an excessively idealized image of the city. Hope your disappointment with your own national brands is not at the root of the admiration you have for the F3HR.
> 
> May I suggest you sell your F3HR and buy some popcorn with the money? That will hopefully make your wait not as frustrating. And you may even end up with some change.
> 
> In terms of degradation of track quality starting with the 1.1.30 update, I can't tell for certain that there wasn't a change. Because I don't have software for doing that kind of analysis. And I'm constantly producing tracks way faster than I can inspect them. But simply based on a few samples, and noting when posters here started to report the behavior, there is a chance an issue could have been introduced then. Any of you looking at that? On your own tracks for the same roads/trails? Update was on the 8th.


Maybe you should rather post some razor sharp GPS moves instead of trolling around here? It looks like you have more than enough time to troll.


----------



## XCJagge

I have got only two bad tracks so far, both of them with this 1.1.30 firmware. But some seem to have had similar experiences before this update, but maybe not exactly as nicely clean parellel tracks as these latest ones.


----------



## oli70

For me the tracks looked definitive better with older firmware (< 1.1.30).


----------



## LONG_HAUL

oli70 said:


> For me the tracks looked definitive better with older firmware (< 1.1.30).


I was afraid that was going to be the response. The main firmware version was changed, but the GPS firmware version was not. So, if there was indeed an issue, and it was indeed introduced with the update, one needs to consider the possibility that a change made to the main firmware was not accompanied by a respective change in the GPS firmware, that would have been necessary for full compatibility between the two, and for smooth operation in all scenarios. Just shooting the breeze... but not all that far fetched...


----------



## zvojan

bryanredneck27 said:


> -1 day to have a watch ⌚ with an alarm  I am soooo excited


Thanks good. At least some of you will be happy.

here is my list with importance from 0-10 for some things.

alarm ....................................................0
custom data fields...................................7
gps accuracy ........................................10
color watch faces....................................0
android support......................................6
notifications...........................................1
storm alarm and other weather things.......0
general stability......................................9
improved battery life...............................7


----------



## bryanredneck27

zvojan said:


> Thanks good. At least some of you will be happy.
> 
> here is my list with importance from 0-10 for some things.
> 
> alarm ....................................................0
> custom data fields...................................7
> gps accuracy ........................................10
> color watch faces....................................0
> android support......................................6
> notifications...........................................1
> storm alarm and other weather things.......0
> general stability......................................9
> improved battery life...............................7


I was being sarcastic Sherlock...


----------



## rdm01

I also reported my tracks and distances are wrong with 1.1.30. Before the update I was very happy with the distances. I got evidences of that because I repeated the same route with 1.1.24 three times and other three times with 1.1.3p

deporteporvida.com


----------



## XCJagge

MyGPSFiles

meybe not razor sharp, but one of the runs I did with the previous firmware. Not always but quite often the track was as good as this. Forest is difficult enough to make most gps devices struggle one way or an other. I did not have other devices with me but I posted tracks of an other run from trackpod and ambit3 for comparison.

I hope to get something like this being produced every time (but with more points, every second would do). The fact it did for me this well (without glonass) makes me think hardware can't be that bad and this will end up quite well eventually. I have run these same paths with some devices never getting nowhere this reasonable track.


----------



## johan6504

Another evening run with my wife.
She was on her old TomTom runner version 1 and I was on Spartan Ultra. I am totally devastated, SSU is all over the place and recorded 5.86 Km, her tomtom recorded 6.21 Km and follows the track so much better. This feels so depressing...

TomTom in blue and SSU in yellow.








SSU From movescount. http://www.movescount.com/moves/move124883978


----------



## PTBC

johan6504 said:


> Another evening run with my wife.
> She was on her old TomTom runner version 1 and I was on Spartan Ultra. I am totally devastated, SSU is all over the place and recorded 5.86 Km, her tomtom recorded 6.21 Km and follows the track so much better. This feels so depressing...


Switchbacks or even wide curves that go through 180 degrees (especially in foliage) seem to be a problem, switchbacks I can understand, the larger curves not so much.


----------



## johan6504

PTBC said:


> Switchbacks or even wide curves that go through 180 degrees (especially in foliage) seem to be a problem, switchbacks I can understand, the larger curves not so much.


The trail/track we ran today is not very demanding and quite wide. The result make me want to go at it with a sledge hammer. I really hope Suunto has something more (related to GPS) than what is on the list for tomorrow...


----------



## PTBC

johan6504 said:


> The trail/track we ran today is not very demanding and quite wide. The result make me want to go at it with a sledge hammer. I really hope Suunto has something more (related to GPS) than what is on the list for tomorrow...


Yes, the variability makes me feel that from a hardware perspective the potential is there for better GPS than I'm seeing, just needs the software/firmware to work better.


----------



## borgelkranz

Today I was running track and remembered that I did roughly the same route in May with my good old Ambit2r. So I thought: maybe you want to take a look at this.

Luckily, I do not want to remove my facial hair with the GPS tracks my watch records. Yet, I can clearly live with the results my SSU delivered today.
Running Track Ambit2R vs SSU (different days)

The following screenshots show the relevant laps.

SSU:







Laps were set manually after each round.

Ambit 2R:







Laps were set automatically by the interval timer.

As you can see when comparing the tracks, the lap markers of the Ambit 2R actually shift.
So one might think I did not actually do 200m intervals but sometimes longer, sometimes shorter rounds:








The distances recorded with the SSU and a manual lap marker were spot on however:


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> May I suggest you sell your F3HR and buy some popcorn with the money? That will hopefully make your wait not as frustrating. And you may even end up with some change.


For popcorn at this stage I would sell the SSU. As it simply is not up to the task yet ;-) Hopefully the situation changes soon. And I might actually consider selling the F3HR instead.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

FryeX said:


> For popcorn at this stage I would sell the SSU. As it simply is not up to the task yet ;-)


Understood. In that case you may end up with a lot of cash. It is not going to take me that long to post some tracks 

From the sound of things, it seems that it would be good to start a new thread each time a firmware update is released. Sounds like next one is possibly tomorrow. That way it might be easier to go back and determine if an issue started after a specific update. And it would probably be interesting to be able to downgrade firmware, though that might not be allowed at all for the Spartan hardware.


----------



## ivansirakov

I'm following this thread for some weeks now but this is my first post. I did an ultra marathon race last weekend and I used my SSU. I had to use the navigation all the way and I can say it did the job nicely! I did experienced two bugs although. 1st is already mentioned before - I lost my HR after 5 hours of running and the 2nd- I got wrong altitude in the end (lifted to up to 15000m asl) otherwise it was good all the way. I think the gps accuracy was pretty good all the way except two places where it was going parallel for some time (you can see it on the pictures and in the move). -> movescount.com/moves/move124251098
The course was certified as 70.6k and my SSU tracked 70.68k
My battery went from 100% down to 15% after the finish for a total time of 11 hours 10 mins. I used the navigation, HR and rarely the backlight.

First deviation.
Razor sharp?
Second deviation.
Find the pictures in my dropbo -> dropbox.com/sh/dnf6cl6m9ha6vpx/AABxqqgimyI5argaV0mzf3xIa?dl=0


----------



## bruceames

borgelkranz said:


> Today I was running track and remembered that I did roughly the same route in May with my good old Ambit2r. So I thought: maybe you want to take a look at this.
> 
> Luckily, I do not want to remove my facial hair with the GPS tracks my watch records. Yet, I can clearly live with the results my SSU delivered today.
> Running Track Ambit2R vs SSU (different days)
> 
> The following screenshots show the relevant laps.
> 
> SSU:
> View attachment 9484178
> 
> Laps were set manually after each round.
> 
> Ambit 2R:
> View attachment 9484242
> 
> Laps were set automatically by the interval timer.
> 
> As you can see when comparing the tracks, the lap markers of the Ambit 2R actually shift.
> So one might think I did not actually do 200m intervals but sometimes longer, sometimes shorter rounds:
> View attachment 9484418
> 
> 
> The distances recorded with the SSU and a manual lap marker were spot on however:
> View attachment 9484426


Clearly the A2 tracks look better (much tighter within the track) and the recorded lap distance on both are within .01 (which could be less as it could be rounding error). It just goes to show what I said earlier that the distance recorded by the SSU (and the pace) is more accurate that what the tracks make it out to be. As the distance/pace metrics are derived from the fix rate rather than the store rate.

So you manually recorded laps with the SSU and did automatic laps with the A2?


----------



## bluelee333633

Hecke said:


> Funny how the map does not match the sattelite image, which seems to be in agreement to your track...


I am in China for some reason our
Country gps coordinates exist a offset with which outside the country, we cannot use Google maps in our region because of the internet block known as the great fire wall. And the gps thing is somewhat at the national defense level you can search on the Internet. Harmon
Also offers the satellite coordinates modifications in their software for Chinese users. You can select gaode map which in map view of movescount to see right satellite image of my track.

That's not the watch problem

从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## bluelee333633

bluelee333633 said:


> I am in China for some reason our
> Country gps coordinates exist a offset with which outside the country, we cannot use Google maps in our region because of the internet block known as the great fire wall. And the gps thing is somewhat at the national defense level you can search on the Internet. Harmon
> Also offers the satellite coordinates modifications in their software for Chinese users. You can select gaode map which in map view of movescount to see right satellite image of my track.
> 
> That's not the watch problem
> 
> 从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


Garmin
Also offers the satellite coordinates modifications in their software for Chinese users.

sorry about the typo

从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## bluelee333633

one must change the SSU setting in the movescount website then sycn it to the watch. if one only changes the setting in the watch, when syncing with app, settings of the watch will be change to what in movescount website. similar to itunes syncing iphone music.


从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## dogrunner

Good list!
Only two modifications for me-



zvojan said:


> here is my list with importance from 0-10 for some things.
> 
> alarm ....................................................7
> custom data fields...................................7
> gps accuracy ........................................10
> color watch faces....................................0
> android support......................................0
> notifications...........................................1
> storm alarm and other weather things.......0
> general stability......................................9
> improved battery life...............................7


----------



## IronP

For me:

_alarm ....................................................8_
_custom data fields..................................10_
_gps accuracy ........................................10_
_color watch faces....................................3_
_android support......................................0_
_notifications..................................... .....4_
_storm alarm and other weather things.......5_
_general stability.....................................10_
_improved battery life...............................8_


----------



## borgelkranz

bruceames said:


> So you manually recorded laps with the SSU and did automatic laps with the A2?


Correct. I did so because the SSU at the moment lacks an interval timer.


----------



## FryeX

Interesting. Overnight SSU went from 140m altitude to 224m of altitude. While I slept. F3HR still shows the sharp 140m. Air pressure did drop a lot last night, so it seems that SSU is not handling these kind of changes at all at the moment. And any change in pressure is directly reflected to altitude at least outside of exercise.


----------



## d2i23

johan6504 said:


> It is a little complicated on a PC but I use SyncMyTracks - Sincroniza tu actividades deportivas with Bluestacks - The World's Largest Mobile Gaming Platform on PC. Bluestack is an application to enable Android applications to run on PC.


Thank you for that. Will try it.


----------



## XCJagge

I believe track going nicely parallel issue is result of gps chip using wrong or outdated ephemeris data. One or more satellites are not where the chip thinks it is and the result is this shift. It might be worth checking how SGEE and CGEE data gets updated / expired / cleared. Possibly happens when device starts using "new" satellites it did not initially lock during the start up acquiring sequence.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

FryeX said:


> Interesting. Overnight SSU went from 140m altitude to 224m of altitude. While I slept. F3HR still shows the sharp 140m. Air pressure did drop a lot last night, so it seems that SSU is not handling these kind of changes at all at the moment. And any change in pressure is directly reflected to altitude at least outside of exercise.


Maybe your F3HR is dead and you should join all the customers unhappy with the F3HR altimeter on their own forum. Do you know the orthometric elevation at your home?


----------



## FryeX

LONG_HAUL said:


> Maybe your F3HR is dead and you should join all the customers unhappy with the F3HR altimeter on their own forum. Do you know the orthometric elevation at your home?


Nice trolling. 140m is the altitude. Both watches were calibrated. F3HR has no issues tracking altitude during exercise wether backcountry telemark skiing or a walk with the family. And no issues messing up altitude when there is a change in air pressure. Waiting impatiently for the update to SSU today. Hopefully it will get better too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

FryeX said:


> Nice trolling. 140m is the altitude.


Easy now. And what is the WGS84 spheroid height at your home?


----------



## wayller

> We have acknowledge that there are some claims that GPS in not working well in spartan as it should be but we can assure you that we are working on it, and we are investigating where is this GPS issue is coming from so we can make Spartan better and perform its best. We also releasing couples update to fix the issue.


Got a mail from Suunto. Looks like there might be a solution for the GPS.


----------



## Hecke

XCJagge said:


> I believe track going nicely parallel issue is result of gps chip using wrong or outdated ephemeris data. One or more satellites are not where the chip thinks it is and the result is this shift. It might be worth checking how SGEE and CGEE data gets updated / expired / cleared. Possibly happens when device starts using "new" satellites it did not initially lock during the start up acquiring sequence.


Ifso, wouldn't that mean that the entire track is shifted by a constant offset, and not only a portion?


----------



## BobMiles

Hecke said:


> Ifso, wouldn't that mean that the entire track is shifted by a constant offset, and not only a portion?


Not if you haven't had a link to the "bad" satellite for the whole move. 
So I find this explanation quite plausible!


----------



## Hecke

BobMiles said:


> Not if you haven't had a link to the "bad" satellite for the whole move.
> So I find this explanation quite plausible!


A thanks. I think I get it. I synced the watch Sat night, when the faulty move was Sun morning. So outdated is not probable. But maybe the update process within the communication of SuuntoLink and SSU is buggy.

Now, Suunto, it is time you let us have a look into your code!


----------



## XCJagge

yeah, that's what I meant, might be worth Suunto to check how this SGEE and CGEE data gets updated / expired / cleared. We can and should only "plug and play" and it should simply just work.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

FryeX said:


> 140m is the altitude. Both watches were calibrated.


I repeat: what is the WGS84 ellipsoid height at your home? It looks like it should be around 40 m. So how can the F3HR be dead and insisting on displaying the calibration value you typed in? It is broken and you can't even tell just because it shows what you think it should. I find that to often be the case, even with other data. And maybe the Spartan is just trying to adjust your calibration and is having difficulties doing that from inside your home.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Hecke said:


> Now, Suunto, it is time you let us have a look into your code!


Ha! Yeah. You let us have a look at it, along with all the competitors' developers crowd lurking here.


----------



## FryeX

Looks like Android support got delayed:Upcoming updates for Suunto Spartan and Movescount
Hopefully the firmware update still makes it today.

*Android compatibility*We unfortunately need to delay Suunto Spartan compatibility with the Suunto Movescount for Android app, as we aren't satisfied with its current state and feel that further improvements are necessary before releasing it to our customers. We expect to release a Spartan compatible version of the app within the first 3 weeks of October, as we make the improvements and test them thoroughly.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

FryeX said:


> Looks like Android support got delayed:Upcoming updates for Suunto Spartan and Movescount
> Hopefully the firmware update still makes it today.
> 
> *Android compatibility*We unfortunately need to delay Suunto Spartan compatibility with the Suunto Movescount for Android app, as we aren't satisfied with its current state and feel that further improvements are necessary before releasing it to our customers. We expect to release a Spartan compatible version of the app within the first 3 weeks of October, as we make the improvements and test them thoroughly.


I own an iPhone but I still feel I'm not getting a good deal here. How about compensating for what is not being released today by adding some features scheduled to only be released in the future?


----------



## capcav73

FryeX said:


> Looks like Android support got delayed:Upcoming updates for Suunto Spartan and Movescount
> Hopefully the firmware update still makes it today.
> 
> *Android compatibility*We unfortunately need to delay Suunto Spartan compatibility with the Suunto Movescount for Android app, as we aren't satisfied with its current state and feel that further improvements are necessary before releasing it to our customers. We expect to release a Spartan compatible version of the app within the first 3 weeks of October, as we make the improvements and test them thoroughly.


Suunto, you may offer an IPhone to each spartan owner, that way you will not be forced to update Android app : it seems you are not able to... ??


----------



## FryeX

Hmm, looks like also bike sensor calibration was pulled from the update.


----------



## IronP

FryeX said:


> Looks like Android support got delayed:Upcoming updates for Suunto Spartan and Movescount
> Hopefully the firmware update still makes it today.
> 
> *Android compatibility*
> 
> We unfortunately need to delay Suunto Spartan compatibility with the Suunto Movescount for Android app, as we aren't satisfied with its current state and feel that further improvements are necessary before releasing it to our customers. We expect to release a Spartan compatible version of the app within the first 3 weeks of October, as we make the improvements and test them thoroughly.


No surprises about this...Polar had serious troubles when they released the android compatibility in the past! I remember that even iPhone users had trouble with the release....(including myself)...Android platform needs much more work than the IOs, so it is smart from suunto not to release this now! Thanks! I do not want troubles added with the updates!


----------



## capcav73

FryeX said:


> Hmm, looks like also bike sensor calibration was pulled from the update.


I can't find these news on suunto's site ?


----------



## IronP

FryeX said:


> Hmm, looks like also bike sensor calibration was pulled from the update.


Indeed....the bike pod calibration has been deleted from the list and does not appear anywhere now! And no mentioned about it!


----------



## FryeX

capcav73 said:


> I can't find these news on suunto's site ?


Both are behind the link I posted. I initially missed the bike sensor part, or it could have been added in later. Neither are real issues for me, I hope that footpods could be calibrated so I could make use of them after the update. But since they are not on the list I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## capcav73

FryeX said:


> Both are behind the link I posted. I initially missed the bike sensor part, or it could have been added in later. Neither are real issues for me, I hope that footpods could be calibrated so I could make use of them after the update. But since they are not on the list I'm not holding my breath.


OK, I find them on english page, but French one is not updated yet.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

capcav73 said:


> OK, I find them on english page, but French one is not updated yet.


Finnish has not been updated either...


----------



## np31

Movescount website is under maintenance at the moment. Things are starting to move !


----------



## np31

np31 said:


> Movescount website is under maintenance at the moment. Things are starting to move !


... and it's back !


----------



## NickSwe

It looks like they managed to include the bike sensor calibration in the update today...


----------



## IronP

NickSwe said:


> It looks like they managed to include the bike sensor calibration in the update today...


Yes....just saw in the movescount settings that now it is possible to setup the bike pod. Great!


----------



## capcav73

Update online !


----------



## IronP

The update is available! Anyone already installed it?


----------



## d2i23

IronP said:


> The update is available! Anyone already installed it?


----------



## IronP

d2i23 said:


> View attachment 9491138


It happened with me during the last update....just hold the upper button for 12seconds for the reset (But do not disconnect the cable).


----------



## d2i23

IronP said:


> It happened with me during the last update....just hold the upper button for 12seconds for the reset (But do not disconnect the cable).


Funny now it's updating from 1.2.0 to 1.2.0


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Updated with no issues. Started thread here.


----------



## XCJagge

Just got it installed. Suunto link too. Alarm sound is the same as in Ambit. No sign of glonass.


----------



## borgelkranz

My first impression: the lag when activating the watch when using an analog watch face is gone. Also the menus are changing fluently again.


----------



## FryeX

borgelkranz said:


> My first impression: the lag when activating the watch when using an analog watch face is gone. Also the menus are changing fluently again.


Yep. Analog watch faces are usable again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johan6504

We are still on GPS:5.7.9-P1_5.7.9 so any hope on improved tracking?


----------



## PTBC

Initial thoughts looks like the notification font is bigger, much more readable and menu lag seems better


----------



## borgelkranz

Setting the reference altitude changed. It is now possible to set the sign and five digits. Feels a little bit awkward, usability wise.


----------



## d2i23

Also highest and lowest point now get recorded in movescount.


----------



## Christian Schwarz

I still have the problem that my routes are disappearing. After the update today as well. Anybody found a solution to get them back on the watch?


----------



## PTBC

Christian Schwarz said:


> I still have the problem that my routes are disappearing. After the update today as well. Anybody found a solution to get them back on the watch?


Last time this happened I did the 12-sec reset and resynced and the routes came back


----------



## PTBC

Changing the watch face colour changes the colour scheme for the UI so menu icons etc. change colour as well


----------



## 604

My update is in an endless loop with Suuntolink showing a "Watch reset required" message and a "Start device reset" button.

Can't do anything with it right now. This is what happens when you commit to deliveries and tight schedules. Quite frustrating...


----------



## FryeX

Update still wipes the training history, except the recovery counter. But definitely an improvement so far over the previous version. Waiting to tease the GPS tomorrow.


----------



## 604

Well, I give up. The update totally bricked my SSU. Resetting the computer, the watch, reinstalling Suuntolink, trying on a different computer... nothing works. If anybody knows how to get out of this, let me know. It's just stuck showing the arrow pointing down and the second of the four dots blinking.


----------



## IronP

604 said:


> My update is in an endless loop with Suuntolink showing a "Watch reset required" message and a "Start device reset" button.
> 
> Can't do anything with it right now. This is what happens when you commit to deliveries and tight schedules. Quite frustrating...


Had the same...try reset by pushing the upper button for 12 seconds (But do not disconnect the cable)....!...it worked for me!


----------



## 604

IronP said:


> Had the same...try reset by pushing the upper button for 12 seconds (But do not disconnect the cable)....!...it worked for me!


I saw your earlier post and already tried, but I end up in the same place. Gonna have to call support.


----------



## FryeX

Hmm, going back to watch face from settings still resets the secondary data field to the default. And does not remember where it last was. For example I use the analog watch face with date and altitude. But when I go back to watch mode from settings it shows always day and step counter. So I have to manually set it back to altitude.


----------



## bulletcatcher

Hi，there.Updated SSU last night.everything is fine but Charge indicator is not full (short of 1/3),indicator index is 100%.I cant charge it to real 100%.Does anybody has this problem too?Why is it?Thx!


----------



## FryeX

Sounds like a bug. Others have seen it too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Oeffi

Hi all, it's a pleasure to follow this community since a while (since I bought my SSU actually), thanks for all your comments & contributions! After the update to 1.2.0 yesterday I can't connect my SSU to the iPhone anymore (tried it on 2 iPhones, plus the iPad, all devices are on iOS 10). Is it still working for some of you? Tried to reset the network settings on the phones, have done a reset on the SSU, still no success! Will try my first run with 1.2.0 in the lunch break later, so far, I've also seen poor GPS accuracy only, hope this will improve now (although the GPS FW is still the same)! Will let you know later...greetings from sunny Germany!


----------



## Oeffi

..the same for me!


----------



## Oeffi

bulletcatcher said:


> Hi，there.Updated SSU last night.everything is fine but Charge indicator is not full (short of 1/3),indicator index is 100%.I cant charge it to real 100%.Does anybody has this problem too?Why is it?Thx!


...same for me with the indicator! No the post makes sense!


----------



## IronP

Oeffi said:


> Hi all, it's a pleasure to follow this community since a while (since I bought my SSU actually), thanks for all your comments & contributions! After the update to 1.2.0 yesterday I can't connect my SSU to the iPhone anymore (tried it on 2 iPhones, plus the iPad, all devices are on iOS 10). Is it still working for some of you? Tried to reset the network settings on the phones, have done a reset on the SSU, still no success! Will try my first run with 1.2.0 in the lunch break later, so far, I've also seen poor GPS accuracy only, hope this will improve now (although the GPS FW is still the same)! Will let you know later...greetings from sunny Germany!


Mine is working fine with iPhone 6 and IOS10.


----------



## Simurgh

The menu works much better post update, but the GPS doesn't look promising. I did the short run this morning and it is much worse post update. This is the worst results since I got the watch and did around 10 runs..

Orange is pre update Spartan, blue is post update Spartan, purple is runkeeper with Iphone 7.


----------



## darkshait

bulletcatcher said:


> Hi，there.Updated SSU last night.everything is fine but Charge indicator is not full (short of 1/3),indicator index is 100%.I cant charge it to real 100%.Does anybody has this problem too?Why is it?Thx!


It happens to me too, do not worry, another bug to the list

Another firm update with totally irrelevant improvements

When could I load daily training plans in the watch, interval training where watch warns when to change pace and heart rate graphs to check the heart rate % I am? :think:

I cannot set them up in movescount either.... :roll:


----------



## Oeffi

Simurgh said:


> The menu works much better post update, but the GPS doesn't look promising. I did the short run this morning and it is much worse post update. This is the worst results since I got the watch and did around 10 runs..
> 
> Orange is pre update Spartan, blue is post update Spartan, purple is runkeeper with Iphone 7.


Just done with my standard 10,4 km run after the update, and I can confirm the same poor GPS accuracy as before...I can't see any improvements here! :-( Seems we've to wait for the next update in October...


----------



## Simurgh

Oeffi said:


> Just done with my standard 10,4 km run after the update, and I can confirm the same poor GPS accuracy as before...I can't see any improvements here! :-( Seems we've to wait for the next update in October...


Although it never was that good, a single run post update is by far the worst I had. Not sure if that's a coincidence or update made it worse for me.

Distance mismatch is 0.3km on 5k track compared to iphone.


----------



## thyokel

The % is correct but the bar is not. I suspect this because my battery is about 84% before I update the firmware. After update, it charge to 100% but the bar looks like 3/4.



bulletcatcher said:


> Hi，there.Updated SSU last night.everything is fine but Charge indicator is not full (short of 1/3),indicator index is 100%.I cant charge it to real 100%.Does anybody has this problem too?Why is it?Thx!


----------



## BobMiles

Simurgh said:


> Distance mismatch is 0.3km on 5k track compared to iphone.


Maybe not the best reference, is it?


----------



## PTBC

Simurgh said:


> Although it never was that good, a single run post update is by far the worst I had. Not sure if that's a coincidence or update made it worse for me.
> 
> Distance mismatch is 0.3km on 5k track compared to iphone.


Yes, while it's just one a quick run after the the worst track for the route, even in the previously good road area's, trail was also worse, t was the performance on a wide road with clear sky's and no foliage that was surprising

After update








Before update








The later road section after the trail was much better, hopefully this was just a one off bad day


----------



## Simurgh

BobMiles said:


> Maybe not the best reference, is it?


I posted the graph of pre, post Spartan and iPhone 7. Pre update spartan and i7 are very close while the post update spartan differs a lot..

Knowing the route I know i7 is pretty much spot on (very close to my ex fr630), while post update spartan some 300m short..

anyway as I did only one run post update I need to verify that post update gps perfomance decreased.


----------



## PTBC

BobMiles said:


> Maybe not the best reference, is it?


I have some moves recorded on an iphone pre-spartan hiking in covered areas that show better GPS tracks than I'm seeing with the spartan, despite being in a pocket with keys etc.
Assume that the phone has much bigger aerial and sensitivity, the issues being battery life, size , robustness, less sensor/data recording types than watch etc. not ability to track GPS


----------



## Jaka83

Did a bike ride today after I updated the watch yesterday to 1.2.0.

Had the "Watch reset needed" message and the watch actually flashed itself twice - first from the old FW to 1.2.0, then again from 1.2.0 to 1.2.0.  After that is was all good, except I had to configure it without the cable and then sync it again through Suuntolink.

The track looks OK to me and I don't notice any big changes except one good change - I left the watch running during my 8 min pause at the top of the ascend where I left the watch on the handlebars and lay my bike on the side to stretch my legs and upper body. As you can see from the screenshot, the GPS didn't "hunt" as it used to before the update, so there are no more "knots" when stopping. I'll test this more on the weekend when I go hiking (lots of short pauses for taking pictures and hydrating).

Jaka_Jese's 1:56 h Cycling Move
8 min break with watch still recording (oh, the loop is totally legit, although not totally smooth)








Start and stop in front of my house match up.








Move was recorded with the titanium all black model in case that somehow plays a role.


----------



## BobMiles

Simurgh said:


> I posted the graph of pre, post Spartan and iPhone 7. Pre update spartan and i7 are very close while the post update spartan differs a lot..
> 
> Knowing the route I know i7 is pretty much spot on (very close to my ex fr630), while post update spartan some 300m short..
> 
> anyway as I did only one run post update I need to verify that post update gps perfomance decreased.


Ok maybe it was just me being the cliché guy - sorry!

Received my spartan yesterday and went for a run in the forest. No disappointment so far, A3P and SSU were off by 30m max in distance. The SSU cut the corners a bit, can't say anything about the A3P track right now as my movescount app got hiccups (again, as always).


----------



## Roland_77

I received my Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth yesterday. I was a bit worried by these 234 pages of problems. I don`t know if it`s the new update or some internal change to the watch but this is the track recorded today mountainbiking......looks razor sharp to me (finally the first one in this threat).


----------



## jimmysalvo

Roland_77 said:


> I received my Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth yesterday. I was a bit worried by these 234 pages of problems. I don`t know if it`s the new update or some internal change to the watch but this is the track recorded today mountainbiking......looks razor sharp to me (finally the first one in this threat).
> 
> View attachment 9508698


Track looks nice but it seems that you have recorded it in the ideal conditions: high speed, no trees, watch face up.. This is the least that it can do


----------



## Simurgh

My 2nd run post update. It looks much better than the one I did yesterday. Yesterday was quite cloudy too.

Spartan - blue
i7 - orange

Still not great, but I can live with this.


----------



## bluelee333633

I guess that SSU might be very sensitive to the tall building and trees especially the buildings having glass walls around even though these things are not block the open sky view, just sitting aside. SSU might be very sensitive to the gps signal that these things reflect


从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## FryeX

Ok, my SSU is going back to store today. Does anyone know how to completely reset the watch? In Suuntolink there is option to force update the firmware, but even then sensors and personal data is left to device.

Main reasons for giving up now:
No proper power meter support. Only one power value saved, no left vs right pedal / or additional power data at the moment. Indoor cycling does not support power at all.
Foot pod cannot be calibrated, so on every run with foot pod distances are off 10% for me. Every run.
Not possible to set separate HR zones for Running and Cycling. My training zones are very different for these sports.
No structured trainings available. And no notification when training target reached (only time available as target for now)

There are good things in the watch also and I will most likely buy one again after the software has the capability to support my training and outdoor activities better.


----------



## PTBC

Did a quick test this morning just walking the dog and track was much better than the previous test run despite worse conditions, so hopefully my bad track was an off day. Also pool swimming the bug that had negative distances and misreported overall lengths didn't occur this time, so hopefully that's fixed.

Simburgh also reported second move was better than first, wonder if there's some issue post update which later syncing corrects?


----------



## zvojan

This is my street run with both suuntos. Results are fantastic from both. Of course, clear sky, no trees and this time exactly the same distance. This is my summary: 4 street moves with both watches and excellent results from both and 29 trail moves with both watches. 29 excellent results from A3P and 20 sufficient results and 9 insufficient results from SSU. Is SSU a good watch?

4 km with track back (8km). A3P with 2770 recorded points (excellent)








4 km with track back (8km). SSU with 2699 recorded points (excellent)


----------



## rdm01

PTBC said:


> Did a quick test this morning just walking the dog and track was much better than the previous test run despite worse conditions, so hopefully my bad track was an off day. Also pool swimming the bug that had negative distances and misreported overall lengths didn't occur this time, so hopefully that's fixed.
> 
> Simburgh also reported second move was better than first, wonder if there's some issue post update which later syncing corrects?


I went today for a swimming pool workout and the bug with negative distances and misreported overall lengths still there in my SSU with 1.2.0. Sooo sad :-(

deporteporvida.com


----------



## PTBC

rdm01 said:


> I went today for a swimming pool workout and the bug with negative distances and misreported overall lengths still there in my SSU with 1.2.0. Sooo sad :-(
> 
> deporteporvida.com


So just luck for me this, or something different that didn't trigger it, someone else who said they swim multiple times per week has never seen the bug so it is intermittent.
I did have a weird spike of 600+ strokes per min in the stroke data though, but the pace/speed per lap is consistent so something odd is happening


----------



## jeremy1271

@zvojan How come did you get the same amount of points with A3P and SSU this time ? Did you use a different mode ?


----------



## CARLOS MLM

mi gps también ha Mejorado desde la última actualización.


----------



## gousias

CARLOS MLM said:


> mi gps también ha Mejorado desde la última actualización.


Γράψε στην αγγλική γλώσσα, αν θες να καταλάβουν όλοι!


----------



## zvojan

jeremy1271 said:


> @zvojan How come did you get the same amount of points with A3P and SSU this time ? Did you use a different mode ?


1. Clear sky, street running, no trees, hills (this is the main reason for sure)
2. Watch face aimed direct to the sky (not my natural wrist position)
3. Running basic gets more recorded points than Trail running basic (absolutely sure)

unfortunately. I am running mostly trails


----------



## johan6504

I am pretty sure SSU in Running Basic doesn't store every second. I did a run today and recorded in Running mode instead of Trail that I am usually do to see if did get any different result. Here is a snapshot of the data. From a quick look I could see gaps from 1 to 6 sec.








As a reference I took my TomTom Runner 1 and extracted the same data via GPS Track Editor. Here is that result. Track is recorded/stored in 1sec only.


----------



## BobMiles

So while I'm ok with the GPS performance of my SSU, the compass is just worthless right now. 
It is pointing anywhere, and sometimes it's not even moving while I turn. Maybe this is compromising GPS enhancement as well...


----------



## johan6504

BobMiles said:


> So while I'm ok with the GPS performance of my SSU, the compass is just worthless right now.
> It is pointing anywhere, and sometimes it's not even moving while I turn. Maybe this is compromising GPS enhancement as well...


Since Suunto isnt sharing information with us or documenting their features very well, its hard to say what effect what...


----------



## jeremy1271

zvojan said:


> 1. Clear sky, street running, no trees, hills (this is the main reason for sure)
> 2. Watch face aimed direct to the sky (not my natural wrist position)
> 3. Running basic gets more recorded points than Trail running basic (absolutely sure)
> 
> unfortunately. I am running mostly trails


Weird. I ALWAYS had more points, I mean, *double*, with the A3P than with the SSU. Not even close to the same amount. That would mean, when the SSU is in challenging conditions, the watch doesn't record some points and wait for 5-7 seconds.


----------



## CARLOS MLM

my gps has also improved since the last update.


----------



## capcav73

One question about number of recorded points with SSU :
How do you get track files from SSU ? I imagine, as I do, you export your move from Movescount, no ?
But in which format ? Are you sure Movescount gives you the real raw stored points from the move or is there kind of "reduction" ?

With ambits, we had the local sml file stored, ready to be evaluate.


----------



## zvojan

jeremy1271 said:


> Weird. I ALWAYS had more points, I mean, *double*, with the A3P than with the SSU. Not even close to the same amount. That would mean, when the SSU is in challenging conditions, the watch doesn't record some points and wait for 5-7 seconds.


Yep, exactly that

challenging conditions, 1-8 sec
ideal conditions 1-3 sec

Look at my trail run today. Exactly the same settings but challenging conditions with trees and foliage and on SSU just half recorded points.

look this recorded points


----------



## jeremy1271

capcav73 said:


> One question about number of recorded points with SSU :
> How do you get track files from SSU ? I imagine, as I do, you export your move from Movescount, no ?
> But in which format ? Are you sure Movescount gives you the real raw stored points from the move or is there kind of "reduction" ?
> 
> With ambits, we had the local sml file stored, ready to be evaluate.


Both come from movescount gpx file, so, both the same. And when you look closer to the SSU and A3P tracks it's obvious the SSU doesn't have the same amount of points. If there's a kind of reduction, then Movescount only applies it on the SSU tracks, or a lot more than the Ambit.


----------



## tinu80

gousias said:


> Γράψε στην αγγλική γλώσσα, αν θες να καταλάβουν όλοι!


Iu, gopferteli!


----------



## gousias

tinu80 said:


> Iu, gopferteli!


Should you curse upon someone?


----------



## tinu80

gousias said:


> Should you curse upon someone?


Come on that's not a curse. It means more or less "So damn right!". And don't overlook the smiley at the end...


----------



## snowleopardw

Can anyone successfully sync the routes and the sports mode +/- after set up the watch on website? To me, either Suuntolink PC/Mac or Movescount App on the iPhone, can NOT sync them to my SSU, but it says sync already complete. So weird!


----------



## snowleopardw

Can anyone successfully sync the routes and the sports mode +/- after set up the watch on website? To me, either Suuntolink PC/Mac or Movescount App on the iPhone, can NOT sync them to my SSU, but it says sync already complete. So weird!


----------



## BobMiles

For my part, I can't sync any sport mode settings (adding standard sport modes). It always reverts to default...


----------



## snowleopardw

Before sync the settings, create a new move, make sure there is at least one move not be synced, then the settings will work. This is a BUG.


----------



## snowleopardw

BobMiles said:


> For my part, I can't sync any sport mode settings (adding standard sport modes). It always reverts to default...


Before sync the settings, create a new move, make sure there is at least one move not be synced, then the settings will work. This is a BUG.


----------



## XCJagge

btw, if someone likes to check EHPE values (estimated horizontal position error) of your SSU move, here is hint how to do it.

First, open your move with browser. As an example here is Jaka_Jese's move, link posted here couple of pages ago: Jaka_Jese's 1:56 h Cycling Move

Open html source code and search/look for "suunto.move.trackUrl". It is sometihing like 
movecache.static.movescount.com/2016.09/5E597C1392B5F766E043F6D738B7E85624982C54-track

Open that with browser and you will get trackpoints as json with those EHPE values.


----------



## Jaka83

Cool XCJagge, thanks for that.

Looks like the move you linked to has a maximum EHPE at 13 m.

I don't think Suunto has the fused alti worked out on the Spartan yet. Whenever I try to auto calibrate the altitude it shows the wrong value. I still rely on my phone's GPS (Android app "GPS Data") and then set the reference value in my watch settings.


----------



## PTBC

XCJagge said:


> btw, if someone likes to check EHPE values (estimated horizontal position error) of your SSU move, here is hint how to do it.
> 
> First, open your move with browser. As an example here is Jaka_Jese's move, link posted here couple of pages ago: Jaka_Jese's 1:56 h Cycling Move
> 
> Open html source code and search/look for "suunto.move.trackUrl". It is sometihing like
> movecache.static.movescount.com/2016.09/5E597C1392B5F766E043F6D738B7E85624982C54-track
> 
> Open that with browser and you will get trackpoints as json with those EHPE values.


Neat, just did a quick play around with excel

Just looking at 2 moves, one OK, one bad and for the ok EHPE avg is 13 with a min/max of 9-18 and for the bad EHPE avg is 20 with min/max of 10-30
I would assume discarded points from the 1-sec sampling would have even greater errors

If your interested in my method for a dump it and look for moves under 400 points

Highlight all text and copy
Paste into Excel (you get a long string, will likely need a reasonably up to date version of excel) which will likely only cover 1st 400 points
Use text to columns with Delimited select Comma and Other with { in other option
Highlight all columns
Copy and Paste transposed

Gives you a set of data in blocks

If you are just interested in EHPE sort and delete all other lines than EHPE then use text to columns again with Delimited Other set as :
This gives you a column with EHPE and a column with the value


----------



## darkshait

Terrible performance today, the watch only recorded properly half of the walk, after that GPS signal lost and did not record any track

Walking through central London where I had no issues other times


----------



## bluelee333633

snowleopardw said:


> Can anyone successfully sync the routes and the sports mode +/- after set up the watch on website? To me, either Suuntolink PC/Mac or Movescount App on the iPhone, can NOT sync them to my SSU, but it says sync already complete. So weird!


i success syncing the watch after creating a default sport mode freediving，but instead of showing the water depth， the watch give me the altitude based on the barometer data which is always negtive hundrends

从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## silentvoyager

bluelee333633 said:


> i success syncing the watch after creating a default sport mode freediving，but instead of showing the water depth， the watch give me the altitude based on the barometer data which is always negtive hundrends
> 
> 从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


Yes, that is more or less expected result. How do you expect the watch to know the water depth? The barometer isn't designed for that. Going one meter below sea level in the air isn't quite the same as going one meter underwater. The change in pressure is significantly different.


----------



## bluelee333633

silentvoyager said:


> Yes, that is more or less expected result. How do you expect the watch to know the water depth? The barometer isn't designed for that. Going one meter below sea level in the air isn't quite the same as going one meter underwater. The change in pressure is significantly different.


i think it can be achieved simply by applying a equation that can calculate the water depth with pressure data from the barometer. but the pressure measurement range of the barometer must be considered

从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## mercuir0

bluelee333633 said:


> i think it can be achieved simply by applying a equation that can calculate the water depth with pressure data from the barometer. but the pressure measurement range of the barometer must be considered
> 
> 从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


that's completely right. and the equation is a super simple one. other than in air where the pressure doesn't increase linearly (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_pressure) in water it increases by 100 mbar for every meter you go down. thus the simple equation is (measured pressure in mbar- pressure before immersion in mbar)/100 mbar. i'm really confident that they will implement this in one of the upcoming updates.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

mercuir0 said:


> i'm really confident that they will implement this in one of the upcoming updates.


And make people want to go diving with a watch not made for it? (Yeah, sure 100 m depth rated... but not made with the construction for a diving watch, just as the Ambit line wasn't...


----------



## mercuir0

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> And make people want to go diving with a watch not made for it? (Yeah, sure 100 m depth rated... but not made with the construction for a diving watch, just as the Ambit line wasn't...


no one is talking about diving... i only stated that they can easily fix the bug in depth calculation for the already existing free dive mode that is supposed to be used up to a depth of 10 m... great thing for snorkeling 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Standard air pressure (1 bar) increases by 1 for every 10 metres, so at 10m its 2 bar, at 20 it's 3 bar.......and so on, very simple. I haven't dived in a long time and I still remember that one.

Always wanted a Suunto dive computer many years ago, which most probably sub-consciously factored into my Suunto v Garmin decisions


----------



## tinu80

Jaka83 said:


> I don't think Suunto has the fused alti worked out on the Spartan yet. Whenever I try to auto calibrate the altitude it shows the wrong value. I still rely on my phone's GPS (Android app "GPS Data") and then set the reference value in my watch settings.


I think fused alti must already be working somehow. Back to when it was impossible to manually set correct reference height, my watch showed something like 200 m altitude (instead of 1400). But after doing a move, it showed correct height. I think its the auto calibrate button that isn't working.
But i'm still waiting to be able to set those basic things up the way i like it.


----------



## XCJagge

Ingo said:


> Just throwing this out there but do we know how accurate all these trail and OSM maps actually are - are they based on official topographic maps? Not sure how these internet maps are being generated and maintained and maybe it's using some Wikipedia like crowd sourcing approach but then maybe a lot of controversy started with one "bad" track that became a "bad" trail on a some map and now we're comparing everything against it and say the GPS was off (instead of the trail on that map instead). I am not talking about all these obvious error deviations.


The accuracy of OSM maps in forest are not accurate enough for evaluating GPS device's accuracy, not even close. Neither are Google's maps or imagery. At least not where I live. Detailed maps made by government / city are better, but there is errors in those maps too. I have ended up using LiDAR data to see the correct location for major tracks in nearby forest I usually run/ski. Here is short video showing some of my SSU rollers skiing tracks on google imagery and that lidar based image. What I did is dropped all but last returns and all all points over 8m over ground and made slope image remaining points. Small road are seen as sort of canyons. Accuracy of these lidar points is 15 cm, that's good enough.


----------



## dogrunner

That is an interesting view. Is LiDAR data commonly available in your area?


----------



## XCJagge

Yes. And released as open data, free to download and use. (my screen capture settings were whacked, that's why the video is slow motion).


----------



## PTBC

XCJagge said:


> Yes. And released as open data, free to download and use. (my screen capture settings were whacked, that's why the video is slow motion).


Looks like it's available in KML format, what application did you use to generate the map/track from the data? I've seen some discrepancies in map versions of local trails, including one that shows the trail goes through the river


----------



## XCJagge

What I meant was the lidar data is open. Available in laz format, no tracks there, it is point cloud. Here OSM map from movescount overlayed on my lidar based image. As you can see lots of accurate mapping but here and there OSM wander way from the correct line. Makes it hard to use OSM to judge gps track accuracy, at least if you don't already know where OSM is wrong. And you can't know that without studying it out like this, overlaying it on more correct dataset.


----------



## BobMiles

Suunto changed the Android compatibility from "first three weeks of October" to "next few weeks". Could be a further delay - I don't see any other reason why they would update the release notes...


----------



## tinu80

I found the time to do a simple non-scientific comparison between my old forerunner 210 an the SSU. What i did is simply load the tracks from the same route in mygpsfiles, once for the 210 and once for SSU.
Left side is 210, right side is SSU.
First comparison (forested area on steep slope, 22 two-ways tracks for 210, 4 two-ways tracks for SSU):







Until now i have barely taken the time to review tracks from the old fr 210. But, i must say, I'm really impressed. Those are every single track I've made, no "outliers" removed. That's 44 lines in this pictures.
And SSU? Well, for my purpose the tracks are not bad, but fr 210 seems better to me. SSU seems to struggle with local details, such as the small switchbacks in the upper part. You can't distinguish them on the SSU tracks, whereas they are clearly visible in the fr 210 tracks. I must say that I have removed one SSU track which was completely off, but to be fair I didn't update SGEE for 5 days before.
Second comparison (open area on steep slope):







To me, performance seems to be more or less the same (both good) for both devices.

My conclusion at the moment, pessimistic version: FR 210, bought for CHF 50.- from my sister has better GPS performance than my SSU, bought for CHF 600.-
Optimistic one: You know, upcoming updates and so on... I (really) can live with the GPS performance and wait for further improvements of SSU firmware. But I can understand if people want more.


----------



## Pegasus

Has anyone been brave enough to remove the strap on the Ultra yet? I can't figure out how it's attached or removed. Anyone know? No need to replace it just interested.

Many thanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Special edition copper version looks really nice, seems a bit soon to be releasing variants though and not sure I'd have paid an additional premium just for a different colour (spec. says bezel is titanium so assume it's a coating)


----------



## Pegasus

PTBC said:


> Special edition copper version looks really nice, seems a bit soon to be releasing variants though and not sure I'd have paid an additional premium just for a different colour (spec. says bezel is titanium so assume it's a coating)


Seems a strange move so early on. Thought they would sort the bugs of existing models first.

It is nice but more expensive again with same currently limited functionality.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## johan6504

I have been complaining about Suunto marketing department for delivering too nice pictures and releasing a watch way too early... But in this case I think they are bloody brilliant! Dropping this shiny and desirable version now turning our head in another direction when GPS-tracking and lack of features diskussion goes haywire. It makes sense at least from a Sunnto point of view. Not sure it is in our favor though...


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

johan6504 said:


> I have been complaining...


Wait, wait,... When? Where? Please don't take it too hard on yourself.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> It is nice but more expensive again with same currently limited functionality.


I would put that a tiny bit differently: it is nice, it is awesome, and it blows all other mass produced multisport watches out of the water, with the same absolutely mind-blowing potential.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> Special edition copper version looks really nice, seems a bit soon to be releasing variants though...


In my humble opinion, it seems like the perfect timing prior to the holidays sales.


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> I would put that a tiny bit differently: it is nice, it is awesome, and it blows all other mass produced multisport watches out of the water, with the same absolutely mind-blowing potential.


Haha, I'm amazed you disagree with me, so unusual 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> In my humble opinion, it seems like the perfect timing prior to the holidays sales.


This I agree with you on.......if I'm a Suunto employee.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> Haha, I'm amazed you disagree with me, so unusual


Well... I have absolutely nothing to do this weekend so I thought I would disagree with you for a change, just so I have someone to chat with. Hope you don't mind.


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> Well... I have absolutely nothing to do this weekend so I thought I would disagree with you for a change, just so I have someone to chat with. Hope you don't mind.


No problem 

I do agree that the Spartan has a lot of potential and despite the negativity I hope it reaches that potential.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> In my humble opinion, it seems like the perfect timing prior to the holidays sales.


And of course the timing won't annoy the early adopters if you bringing out a flashy good looking model just after they purchased and are past the return date for their watch..........


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> And of course the timing won't annoy the early adopters if you bringing out a flashy good looking model just after they purchased and are past the return date for their watch..........


For sure both projects were scheduled to go into mass production long ago. I have to say have I had the choice I would probably have purchased the all black Titanium anyway. Just because I wouldn't have gotten a chance to see both live. But I do feel I should have been given the choice as an early adopter. Not terribly upset, just a bit disappointed. Not first time. Not last time. Love my all black still.


----------



## gousias

Should one have any true expectations of improvement for this watch? Next update? The copper model apart from the material change cover, does it have any other differences?


----------



## tinu80

gousias said:


> Should one have any true expectations of improvement for this watch?


I would like to hear from Amit 3 people if software improvement was going at the same pace as now with the SSU. I somehow have the feeling that its not the same guys (or the same amount of resources) now behind SSU improvement. On the other hand I have to say that the firmware is very stable at the moment, didn't have a single freeze or other instability problem. So maybe this is the better way, slow improvements but without new bugs?


----------



## martowl

tinu80 said:


> I would like to hear from Amit 3 people if software improvement was going at the same pace as now with the SSU. I somehow have the feeling that its not the same guys (or the same amount of resources) now behind SSU improvement. On the other hand I have to say that the firmware is very stable at the moment, didn't have a single freeze or other instability problem. So maybe this is the better way, slow improvements but without new bugs?


I have purchased all Ambit models when released and the Ambit1 had many promised features that were not present upon release. Suunto provided a roadmap but not nearly as detailed as the one for the Spartan. Suunto delivered on all the features and many that were asked for and not present in the roadmap. What frustrated several but not me was the release of the Ambit2 a bit less than one year after the Ambit1. I believe that many features requested could not be implemented with the hardware and the Ambit2 was released to implement those changes. The Ambit3 was a major change and obviously many decisions went into the complete switch to BT and abandonement of Ant+.

I have an iPhone and the app worked from the start but I know that Android functionality was difficult, so much so that Suunto opened a beta test page to help with addressing bugs.

The functionality promised for every Ambit model was delivered by Suunto, for the most part on or before the published dates. Occasionally there was a week or two delay that Suunto announced and provided reasons for.

There is every reason to believe that the functionality promised for the Spartan will be provided. In fact, the updates promised for the Spartan are much more aggressive and more substantive than those provided for any Ambit model IMHO. The Spartan appears to be the next flagship for Suunto. My only hope is that they provide most of the outdoor functionality in one model and we do not see a Spartan Vertical. I have not yet ordered my Spartan but it is inevitable.


----------



## johan6504

If I were you I would wait and make sure Suunto get the GPS precision fixed before making any decision. The way it works now is not on par with what you'd expect from a suunto flagship. After it failed to register my Strava segments today I don't really know what to do. Keep or send back...


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> Suunto delivered on all the features and many that were asked for and not present in the roadmap.


Nice bird-eyes view of the past years. What did you think was the most effective way to ask for new features? Here? Suunto's own website? Direct email to someone?


----------



## jeremy1271

johan6504 said:


> If I were you I would wait and make sure Suunto get the GPS precision fixed before making any decision. The way it works now is not on par with what you'd expect from a suunto flagship. After it failed to register my Strava segments today I don't really know what to do. Keep or send back...


Same situation here.


----------



## gousias

jeremy1271 said:


> Same situation here.


And me too, I would like to go ahead and purchase a Titanium All Black, even tomorrow, but I am pushing myself to wait furthermore while on the other hand, I am thinking if a newer model (like a SSU 2) would come up earlier?!


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## johan6504

I am rather thinking about Garmin Fenix 4, if Garmin learned their lesson from the disastrous launch of Fenix 3. which feels very much like a cop of the launch of spartan ultra 


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL

johan6504 said:


> Garmin learned their lesson from the disastrous launch of Fenix 3.


Fenix 3 was one of the greatest Gamin's successes and sold very well. While some were posting hundreds of negative comments about its GPS, professional athletes were getting podiums wearing it training/racing, from day 1.


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## johan6504

Didn't work for me...


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


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## 604

johan6504 said:


> If I were you I would wait and make sure Suunto get the GPS precision fixed before making any decision. The way it works now is not on par with what you'd expect from a suunto flagship. After it failed to register my Strava segments today I don't really know what to do. Keep or send back...


Johan, have you gotten your watch replaced? I think you've got a bad one, man. I had had zero gps problems but my Spartan bricked during the last update and had to send it back. I was a bit worried to check if the new one Suunto sent me would be as good as the one I had, but I took it to heavy forest today and no issues at all with this one either. Very happy with it. See MyGPSFiles









The A3P is still slightly more spot on in some areas, but nothing major, and considering there'll be gps updates down the line... The Ambit 3 was still getting performance/gps updates until december last year, so I imagine they'll continue with gps upgrades on the SSU too.

If you continue getting the kind of tracks you posted, ask for a replacement man. I wasn't happy about the watch bricking during the update and made quite clear to them (without being an .......) and I must say they were very good and did their best. I got the replacement within 4 days from sending the other one back.


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## johan6504

Yes it has been replaced once all ready. Unfortunately it didn't change anything. I have three open supporttickets for this GPS bug but Suunto fails to answer any of my questions or telling me what my options are. They have been completely silent for the last couple of weeks. Sent them a new mail today when my spartan ultra failed to register the Strava segments due to the GPS tracking beeing so far off.


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Just to make sure: You (johan6504) have synced the SSU to get the latest SGEE, preferably the same day (before  ) you record a move?


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## zvojan

This is your moves @604. I am getting the same results in forest all the time . SSU is worse than A3P. 30 M deviations from SSU or even more. SSU is not useful for serious athletes or serious GPS navigation at this moment.


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## Philip Onayeti

When looking at the overall route of a run/ride the GPS track looks OK but as zvojan shows the devil is in the detail. My Spartan sport consistently underperforms in regard to GPS tracking compared with A3(best) and Traverse(next best).


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## Philip Onayeti

Spartan doesn't discard stationary data points like the Ambit series:














And Spartan loses it frequently....















Good old A2 for comparison


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## johan6504

Those SSU errors is why I am losing my Strava segments and what makes the watch so frustrating to use...
Blue is Strava segment, red is SSU track. The deviation from track is at its max about 25-28 meter.


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## Pegasus

If Suunto are unable to or don't rectify the accuracy problem many are having is there an argument to return to Suunto on the basis that it's not fit for purpose?

(I hope it's sorted and please no 'there isn't an accuracy problem' as clearly many do have the problem)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> (I hope it's sorted and please no 'there isn't an accuracy problem' as clearly many do have the problem)


This watch has its bad days just like any other. It seems a bit more pronounced than on a more mature watch like the Ambit 3. But I would not call that an 'accuracy problem' by any means as several different reports have demonstrated the Spartan is extremely accurate in very challenging situations. In your case I would simply indicate you are not satisfied with the watch you received and return it. Good luck.


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## johan6504

You are talking BS and you know it


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL

johan6504 said:


> You are talking BS and you know it
> 
> Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


No, no. Just go back and look at what others have posted. More recently a user "604" just said exactly the same I'm saying.

You say the Fenix 3 was a disaster, then someone says it was a great success as evidenced by sales and customer base. You then say it didn't work for you. That's fine. But then you proceed to say you are considering the Fenix 4, referring to the watch that would build on what you yourself called a disaster that didn't work for you! What sense does that make? If that makes sense to you, then I understand how you could think what I say is non sense or BS.


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## 604

zvojan said:


> This is your moves @604. I am getting the same results in forest all the time . SSU is worse than A3P. 30 M deviations from SSU or even more. SSU is not useful for serious athletes or serious GPS navigation at this moment.


In that particular section you pasted, zvojan, the Spartan did the zig zag and the 180° turn when crossing the road exactly as I run it. The Ambit was the one slightly off there. On the 90 degree right turn in the left of the image though, the Ambit was more accurate than the SSU, but nothing alarming IMO. I've seen similar situations with the ambit on sharp turns like that too.

In general, I think that even if you were wearing two Ambits on different arms, the tracks would be slightly off from each other. Foliage, satellite position... Don't get me wrong, seeing some of the tracks people have posted, I'd also be very disappointed.

A couple of things to keep in mind though: sometimes the screenshots people are posting don't have a zoom reference, so it's hard to tell how many meters is the offset between two tracks. To me, sporadically being 5/10 m off is within the normal GPS accuracy you can get. Some people are getting tracks WAY more off than that, in others, it's hard to tell since there's no zoom level reference.

The other thing to keep in mind, don't take Openstreet maps or the Ambit track as the source of truth. The ambit goes off sometimes too, and openstreet maps are off quite often. I think the best way to really have a good baseline is choosing mapbox as the map engine in Movescount, you can then keep the heatmap on and zoom in as much as you want. In the img below, for instance, the trail at the top is off compared to Movescount's heatmap, there for instance I'm quite sure that the tracks are ok and the error is in the map. For scale reference, the autolaps marks are 1km apart.


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## zvojan

this is a very short sector with most demanding GPS sitiations. Sky visibility aprox 15 %, many sharp turns, big altitude diff. on short distance...700 m with track back. To be honest, SSU did a good job, but still....A3P was better. zoom level is 20m on your right bottom.

SSU, deviations 13 meters









A3P, deviations 5 meters


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## tinu80

johan6504 said:


> You are talking BS and you know it
> 
> Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


Look guys, whether it's johan6504 or long_haul: People who are constantly very negative/positive without showing a bit of "balanced opinion" are not my first source of information in a forum.


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## 604

zvojan said:


> this is a very short sector with most demanding GPS sitiations. Sky visibility aprox 15 %, many sharp turns, big altitude diff. on short distance...700 m with track back. To be honest, SSU did a good job, but still....A3P was better. zoom level is 20m on your right bottom.


I agree. The Spartan isn't bad, but there's no question that the Ambit 3 is better in this type of situations. There's definitely room for improvement in these type of trails, specially at low paces. That seems to be a weak spot. I think this type of sectors are less of an issue the more 'runnable' they are. At low speeds or hiking, the Spartan seems more noisy while the Ambit does better. As you compare them at faster paces, they start coming closer to each other. If there was a big elevation change in your shot, I guess it maybe was at slow pace too.

Either way, I'm personally ok with this tracks because I really want more data fields than what I can get in the Ambit. I still expect the Spartan to improve, but instant pace and overall distance are the same. I don't see any difference using one or the other while running. For those that get so annoyed when actually looking at the tracks, maybe it's better to wait until the watch is more mature and stick to your Ambits.

And again, for johan and the ones that are posting tracks that are so off, ask for a replacement. That seems really wrong if you've synced before the run...


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## LONG_HAUL

tinu80 said:


> Look guys, whether it's johan6504 or long_haul: People who are constantly very negative/positive without showing a bit of "balanced opinion" are not my first source of information in a forum.


Good point tinu. And on that topic, I would invite you all to visit my original post on the SW update thread. It lists a bunch of issues, including possible issues with GPS (though I personally have had an insignificant amount of those). I have even reported to Suunto on whatever few issues I did have associated with GPS functions. I also have a thread on pool swimming where I just recently described a hard to catch bug. Thanks.


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## johan6504

After yesterdays problems with Strava segments being missed due to large tracking problems. Today's run was actually quite good. The PDOP values that I took from CalSky were slightly better, meaning that I had a bit better GPS satellite constellation. The same segment as yesterday was spot on and for the FIRST time I wasn't running in the water around the lake. If all runs was like this I would be happy. It still isn't as good as polar V800 but definitely good enough for what I am using the watch for. This is the first trail-run since I got the watch that I would consider stable all the way and good.

Johan6504's 1:09 h Trail running Move


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## Pegasus

As a test I tracked a car journey, it was pretty much perfect even down the side of the road I was on etc. The watch was also under my sleeve some of the time, it seems to cope fine at speed but when I'm walking it's as if I'm drunk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> As a test I tracked a car journey, it was pretty much perfect even down the side of the road I was on etc. The watch was also under my sleeve some of the time, it seems to cope fine at speed but when I'm walking it's as if I'm drunk.


Which could be related to how some of us have so much trouble while others have none. The GPS track log of my last long run this weekend was absolutely spot on. I showed my GPS track log to a couple of other runners without saying too much about it, and nobody said anything with respect to the accuracy of the tracks or accuracy of the data in general.


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## johan6504

Pegasus said:


> As a test I tracked a car journey, it was pretty much perfect even down the side of the road I was on etc. The watch was also under my sleeve some of the time, it seems to cope fine at speed but when I'm walking it's as if I'm drunk.


I am sad that I have to say this but, this is going down the exact same route as for Garmin Fenix 3.
We had the exactly same diskussions on Garmin forums a little more than a years ago. In the end it came down to a poorly implemented antenna that lacks sensitivity and for that reason responds better to biking than trail-running/hiking. On the positive side, I think that Spartan Ultra is performing better than Fenix 3 did in the beginning and we still haven't seen how GLONASS might add to the over all tracking capabilities. My fingers are crossed for the Suunto-developers to have something really great for the next update on Wednesday...


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## XCJagge

johan6504 said:


> After yesterdays problems with Strava segments being missed due to large tracking problems. Today's run was actually quite good.


I dared to lift your tracks from Movescount and made gpx files with EHPE values (estimated horizontal position error in meters) as elevation. Those figures can be foend in movescount as json. So "elevation" graph here tells the accuracy as device saw it.

MyGPSFiles

Not sure does that tell much of anything, but fun experiment and comparison anyway. (Let me know if you want to delete those files, will be deleted automatically in 30 days).


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## johan6504

XCJagge said:


> I dared to lift your tracks from Movescount and made gpx files with EHPE values (estimated horizontal position error in meters) as elevation. Those figures can be foend in movescount as json. So "elevation" graph here tells the accuracy as device saw it.
> 
> MyGPSFiles
> 
> Not sure does that tell much of anything, but fun experiment and comparison anyway. (Let me know if you want to delete those files, will be deleted automatically in 30 days).


We can keep the link,I dont mind. Not sure what the data says though...


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## gousias

Can anyone give details from experience over the smartwatch functions and connectivity with iPhone?


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## Philip Onayeti

gousias said:


> Can anyone give details from experience over the smartwatch functions and connectivity with iPhone?


The BT connection for notifications seems robust. Will reconnect when back in range.
Full text of notification is available and can be scrolled down to view entire message.
Calls can be declined or answered. The declined is useful but accepting call a bit pointless IMO
The notification is relatively brief and once it has left screen, there is no where to retrieve notification on watch.
No selection for type of notifications to be pushed. 
No emojis etc, only text.

Generally useful during sport and during my work day.


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## gousias

Very useful what you mentioned. Are there expected to be enriched by future updates the functions?


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## ossie

I just bought myself a Spartan ultra all black titanium. A beautiful watch! I tried searching the forum for some questions, but didn't find answers to. Maybe some of you can help?

1. When will glonass be supported. I didn't see it in the future updates.

2 When using it in running mode, will I be able to se average on my current km. Its my favorite stat when running long races.. Will suunto add possibilities to make my own screen setup?


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

I guess we have a solution: Just run faster.

[Runs and hides. Fast.]

Hahahaha

Sports mode customization is meant to come soon. Glonass is planned, iirc.


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## JimmyKane

Hi there guys and girls in this thread. 

I am an owner of SSU and a old reader of this thread. I did the buy in the end with 14 days of evaluation period that is offered in NL. I had my doubts at start but I said to give it a try. 

Did 3 runs with SSU and one swim Indoors

1. Was a interval around 60 min run with both SUU and Polar M400. SSU had the best GPS 
2. Swim with HR of a pool of 50m. A bit confusing the count and I think it missed one line but HR data looked ok and worked great
3. Pre-race run in GPS looked ok (nothing to compare but ok)
4. Run a Trail Marathon (camed 3rd) with it. Compared to other devices it looked more than ok. It was a sand track with cloudy skies and I was not running at the middle of the path due to the resh sand (avoid) so it was spot on on where I went and other flybys from strava show SA2 etc that overall preformed quite well. 

Also I am testing the Andorid Connectivity. All the Bluetooth pair protocol has been reimplemented (woohoo in the end) and the connections works flawlessly. Had one crash on the app on the heatmap but I had not cleared any data or whatsoever. Has more changes in the app. I am a senior sw dev so I monitor positions open etc. I saw they had a lot on Android and all are taken plus in the deliverability of apps. Also the target milestone path looks pretty damn good. They are getting there. Although as being a new user I can more than more understand the furstration of all early adopters. I would read this forum and say a lot of times: you fools, you beta testers etc (in a good way). Nevertheless not less than a 'fool' myself I was with you. 
I am in this adventure of a evolving product and have been for a lot of companies since this is my profession. I see good stuff is coming so hold on. 

BTW 
If you are in Europe you can request money back for 2 years if you can prove that the product does not work as advertised, just saying, because I was a lot of people where having trouble returning it.


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## Unperson

gousias said:


> Very useful what you mentioned. Are there expected to be enriched by future updates the functions?


This is more a function on the phone app than on the watch, it just displays what it gets so developments should be possible but I hope Suunto put their effort into other things. I find it rather handy at work to be able to see both texts and agenda reminders on the watch. It wasn't a feature I wanted when I got the watch but I'm definitely happy that it's on there now


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## JimmyKane

Also the battery life looks ok


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## XCJagge

johan6504 said:


> We can keep the link,I don't mind. Not sure what the data says though...


Difficult to figure out any correlation for lack of reference. Hard to say where track is more correct and where not. But least one can zoom graph with mouse wheel and click the estimated horizontal position error graph and see where on map each peak in error graph is located. And maybe see what the forest looks like where accuracy is good/bad.


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## d2i23

johan6504 said:


> I am sad that I have to say this but, this is going down the exact same route as for Garmin Fenix 3.
> We had the exactly same diskussions on Garmin forums a little more than a years ago. In the end it came down to a poorly implemented antenna that lacks sensitivity and for that reason responds better to biking than trail-running/hiking. On the positive side, I think that Spartan Ultra is performing better than Fenix 3 did in the beginning and we still haven't seen how GLONASS might add to the over all tracking capabilities. My fingers are crossed for the Suunto-developers to have something really great for the next update on Wednesday...


Well I think that GLONASS HAS already been enabled. If you look at specifications for the watch you will see that it is listed as a feature. Previousliy it had a little i next to it that said it will be enabled later.








What do you think?


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## XCJagge

I think it is not enabled. See: https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-ultra-3234634-210.html#post33882418
I believe there will be menu for selecting between gps only and gps + glonass mode in watch or in MC when it gets enabled.


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## tinu80

XCJagge said:


> I think it is not enabled. See: https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-ultra-3234634-210.html#post33882418
> I believe there will be menu for selecting between gps only and gps + glonass mode in watch or in MC when it gets enabled.


If you look at the suuntolink logfiles on your computer, you see that at least sgee data for glonass is already downloaded and saved to the watch. Sure, this won't mean that glonass is actually turned on. But its probably not too far from now.


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## gousias

Unperson said:


> This is more a function on the phone app than on the watch, it just displays what it gets so developments should be possible but I hope Suunto put their effort into other things. I find it rather handy at work to be able to see both texts and agenda reminders on the watch. It wasn't a feature I wanted when I got the watch but I'm definitely happy that it's on there now


Wider variety of functions is always welcomed but more over I would consider as "must be", since there are models from most companies that offer.
So, it is in preliminary stage with basic functions as I can realize.


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## rdm01

tinu80 said:


> If you look at the suuntolink logfiles on your computer, you see that at least sgee data for glonass is already downloaded and saved to the watch. Sure, this won't mean that glonass is actually turned on. But its probably not too far from now.


Suuntolink is also used to sync the Suunto Kalaish who has GLONASS support. So the GLONASS ephemerides data have been there from the beginning.

deporteporvida.com


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## PTBC

Unperson said:


> This is more a function on the phone app than on the watch, it just displays what it gets so developments should be possible but I hope Suunto put their effort into other things. I find it rather handy at work to be able to see both texts and agenda reminders on the watch. It wasn't a feature I wanted when I got the watch but I'm definitely happy that it's on there now


At the least some ability to view recent messages should be added at the very least, if you look at Suunto's diagramm for the menu structure it would appear that there is a message centre to the 'left' of the watchface


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## kallet

tinu80 said:


> If you look at the suuntolink logfiles on your computer, you see that at least sgee data for glonass is already downloaded and saved to the watch. Sure, this won't mean that glonass is actually turned on. But its probably not too far from now.


I asked Suunto support about two weeks ago and they told me that GLONASS is not yet activated. They are testing it and will activate it when they are sure it works as expected.


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## johan6504

kallet said:


> I asked Suunto support about two weeks ago and they told me that GLONASS is not yet activated. They are testing it and will activate it when they are sure it works as expected.


Good to know. Then there is still hope


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## mercuir0

johan6504 said:


> Good to know. Then there is still hope


I had a quick look at the firmware and some option related to Galileo can be found... So if we're lucky they will activate it when it goes into initial operational capability in 2017 (foc is expected for 2019)... this should improve the positioning accuracy by a lot!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## capcav73

mercuir0 said:


> I had a quick look at the firmware and some option related to Galileo can be found... So if we're lucky they will activate it when it goes into initial operational capability in 2017 (foc is expected for 2019)... this should improve the positioning accuracy by a lot!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


With which soft do you open the firmware files ? 
Thanks.


----------



## gousias

I wonder why they haven't added some functions that Ambit3 has got? Like tide information, storm alarm, sunrise/sunset times, average pace? Also, the only alarm hasn't got a "vibration only" alarm?
And for navigating, the route must be made in advance on a computer and then upload to SSU and no trackback feature?


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## johan6504

mercuir0 said:


> I had a quick look at the firmware and some option related to Galileo can be found... So if we're lucky they will activate it when it goes into initial operational capability in 2017 (foc is expected for 2019)... this should improve the positioning accuracy by a lot!


 Googling SirfStarV you will find:

*Key Specifications/Special Features*
Features:


SiRF StarV ultra low power chipset
GPS, GLONASS, Galileo and SBAS reception for high GNSS availability and accuracy

If that means it can/will be implemented, who knows...

http://www.globalsources.com/si/AS/...GPS-GLONASS-Galileo-GPS-Module/1071868237.htm


----------



## PTBC

mercuir0 said:


> I had a quick look at the firmware and some option related to Galileo can be found... So if we're lucky they will activate it when it goes into initial operational capability in 2017 (foc is expected for 2019)... this should improve the positioning accuracy by a lot!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I haven't followed it for a while, but wasn't the Galileo plan to encrypt the signal and charge for commercial usage? I know there were issues with the commercial arm, but not sure how much of the original plan was scrapped. That said then it would certainly help if it can track using all available sources


----------



## BobMiles

gousias said:


> I wonder why they haven't added some functions that Ambit3 has got? Like tide information, storm alarm, sunrise/sunset times, average pace? Also, the only alarm hasn't got a "vibration only" alarm?
> And for navigating, the route must be made in advance on a computer and then upload to SSU and no trackback feature?


I was thinking the same. My guess is they have a new development environment and need to re-program all the code. Most of the funcionatlity you mention is on the roadmap - except vibration only alarm, which I'm hoping for, too.


----------



## Paulchen4711

Guys,

I've another question. Does anybody experience wrong HR-Data? In my last runs I could often see that the HR was above 200 beats/min, although I was way apart from any electromagnetic field. After a few seconds (30-40) it returned to reasonable values. 

Is this rather a receiver or a sender issue?

BR Paulchen


----------



## BobMiles

Paulchen4711 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I've another question. Does anybody experience wrong HR-Data? In my last runs I could often see that the HR was above 200 beats/min, although I was way apart from any electromagnetic field. After a few seconds (30-40) it returned to reasonable values.
> 
> Is this rather a receiver or a sender issue?
> 
> BR Paulchen


Is the data in movescount faulty as well? 
Sounds more like a HR belt issue to me. If you've ensured the belt had contact (wet), maybe check your HR belt battery. The movescount app is supposed to display the battery level when you connect the hr belt to your smartphone - however mine always gives - -.


----------



## Jaka83

Paulchen4711 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I've another question. Does anybody experience wrong HR-Data? In my last runs I could often see that the HR was above 200 beats/min, although I was way apart from any electromagnetic field. After a few seconds (30-40) it returned to reasonable values.
> 
> Is this rather a receiver or a sender issue?
> 
> BR Paulchen


I've had this happen to me today while indoor cycling on the trainer. The HR jumped to 208 for a few seconds, then returned back to normal. Strangely movescount does not show that spike anywhere, so I guess it's filtering data.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Jaka83 said:


> I've had this happen to me today while indoor cycling on the trainer. The HR jumped to 208 for a few seconds, then returned back to normal. Strangely movescount does not show that spike anywhere, so I guess it's filtering data.


Just out of curiosity, which indoor cycling trainer?

EDIT: I'm assuming it is a smart trainer and broadcasts power. If not then it is not really important...


----------



## bruceames

Jaka83 said:


> I've had this happen to me today while indoor cycling on the trainer. The HR jumped to 208 for a few seconds, then returned back to normal. Strangely movescount does not show that spike anywhere, so I guess it's filtering data.


Yes, MC filters outlying data points. While it's good that it does so, it would be nice if it also provided an error value for the HR and GPS data, so we can see how accurate it was and make any necessary adjustments accordingly. For example, I have to depend on my FirstBeat software program to get the error rate for HR (when it starts to creep up it either means change the battery or the strap), but would be nice if MC did the same. Same goes for GPS, the estimated error values are in the log file, so they could provided an average error (and standard deviation) for that in the MC program.


----------



## Ingo

Btw, does the waypoint navigation along a loaded course show line-of-sight distance to the next WP on the Spartan like it does on the A3P or distance following the course? I was quite surprised to find out it's only line-of-sight distance on the A3P - who needs that information??

Anyway, just learning the ropes with my new A3P and don't you guys think it's all fun and smiles here as I have some horrendous tracks as well (all A3P):

1. First 5k: iwende's 5:08 h Trail running Move when we went this way (Fenix2) https://www.strava.com/activities/737770616

2. Or 0.5k-2.0k where I was on that road: iwende's 2:17 h Trail running Move

3. Or 1.0k-4.0k again following the road: iwende's 2:24 h Trail running Move

Goodness, I never had tracks as bad as these with my Garmin 620 or Polar M400... bugger, given the choice of a Spartan with bad tracks and an A3P with bad tracks I'd probably now have gotten the Spartan in hindsight because how much love will the A3P receive from Suunto going forward?


----------



## newtonfb

I'm wondering the same thing. Will the Spartan calculate based on route ? I don't get why it does only line of sight and not along the course. It already has the course loaded in, makes no sense why it can't calculate it. Really irritates the wife and I on our backpacking trips. Does anyone know if the Garmin Fenix series does navigation via routes or LOS like suunto?


----------



## Jaka83

@LONG_HAUL
Elite Turbo Muin Smart B+. It transmits power, cadence and speed via BT Smart. When connected to their (myETraining) phone app everything works after setting the wheel circumference. With the SSU the only parameter from the trainer shown during exercise is power and yes I know that's because we can't set up the screens as we want. After I upload the exercise to MC, the cadence shows up as well with all other standard parameters from the HR monitor etc.
I can see the setting for the bike POD that would translate to distance, but it isn't pushing through as it seems.


----------



## Jaka83

As it stands right now, the Spartan only shows the WP en route with no distance data whatsoever and you can't yet add WPs/POIs on the watch. The line-of-sight distances bugged me on the Ambit 1 too ... does it really take that much processing power that it can't be done or is it simply the fact that the watch does not see you on the route and can't estimate where you are according to the WP and route. It could just simply "draw" the shortest path back to the route and then follow the route to the WP and display that distance.


----------



## krazyeone

Ingo said:


> Anyway, just learning the ropes with my new A3P and don't you guys think it's all fun and smiles here as I have some horrendous tracks as well (all A3P):
> 
> 1. First 5k: iwende's 5:08 h Trail running Move when we went this way (Fenix2) https://www.strava.com/activities/737770616
> 
> 2. Or 0.5k-2.0k where I was on that road: iwende's 2:17 h Trail running Move
> 
> 3. Or 1.0k-4.0k again following the road: iwende's 2:24 h Trail running Move
> 
> Goodness, I never had tracks as bad as these with my Garmin 620 or Polar M400... bugger, given the choice of a Spartan with bad tracks and an A3P with bad tracks I'd probably now have gotten the Spartan in hindsight because how much love will the A3P receive from Suunto going forward?


I bought A3Peak just because I read in reviews that it has "great gps" , until now I used only Garmin watches (I had Forerunner 305 , 910xt, 920xt ) A3P is not an big improvement in GPS accuracy , I aspect to be more precise 
also it looks like unfinished product from software point of view (Movescount web page is a bad joke comparing to Garmin Connect) 
Don't understand me wrong , is not a bad watch

iwende's 5:08 h Trail running Move

For example why do you have lap 4 =1.27km ???


----------



## Ingo

The A3P had no idea where I was on the first 5k... if you compare it with my friend's Fenix 2 track you'll see:







https://www.strava.com/activities/737770616

But hey, this is a Spartan forum after all - good to know though that the A3P may not even be the best alternative :-(


----------



## jeremy1271

New Suuntolink version. Updated to 2.1.41 release 2034


----------



## BobMiles

Sport mode settings are available in MC!


----------



## martowl

krazyeone said:


> I bought A3Peak just because I read in reviews that it has "great gps" , until now I used only Garmin watches (I had Forerunner 305 , 910xt, 920xt ) A3P is not an big improvement in GPS accuracy , I aspect to be more precise
> also it looks like unfinished product from software point of view (Movescount web page is a bad joke comparing to Garmin Connect)
> Don't understand me wrong , is not a bad watch
> 
> iwende's 5:08 h Trail running Move
> 
> For example why do you have lap 4 =1.27km ???


1. A3P is not an big improvement in GPS accuracy , I aspect to be more precise
Others find it more precise, for example fellrnr








also it looks like unfinished product from software point of view (Movescount web page is a bad joke comparing to Garmin Connect)

Don't know what you meant here by "unfinished" but some of us prefer Movescount to Garmin Connect. I personally find Movescount far superior as I can zoom and see Power, Pace, Elevation, etc. Not to mention the Heatmap and ability to download routes into my watch. I don't think that is possible on the Fenix or the 920xt. So you may have an opinion, which is fine, so do I. As far as the gps accuracy is concerned the facts disagree with your statement.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

New firmware has been just released and is available for upgrade. A new thread to study the new firmware can be found here:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suu...1-2-4-12-oct-2016-a-3662578.html#post34475786


----------



## edit0r

LONG_HAUL said:


> New firmware has been just released and is available for upgrade. A new thread to study the new firmware can be found here:
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suu...1-2-4-12-oct-2016-a-3662578.html#post34475786


What's wrong with the first thread started already by the user @np31 on the new firmware released today? 
https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-software-release-1-2-4-464-2016-10-12-a-3662522.html

Why do you want to redirect people to your thread?

L.E : Your behavior : NOT cool !


----------



## LONG_HAUL

edit0r said:


> L.E : Your behavior : NOT cool !


Any user on this forum is allowed to start a thread to discuss their own findings on a topic. No need for you to be confrontational and authoritarian. Have a good day.


----------



## edit0r

LONG_HAUL said:


> No need for you to be confrontational and authoritarian.


Loool.... yeah, right ! What else?


----------



## PTBC

edit0r said:


> What's wrong with the first thread started already by the user @np31 on the new firmware released today?
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-software-release-1-2-4-464-2016-10-12-a-3662522.html
> 
> Why do you want to redirect people to your thread?
> 
> L.E : Your behavior : NOT cool !


To be fair I didn't see any reference to the @np31 thread in this thread, so not unreasonable for someone to start another one, especially as they already had a thread running on the previous update.

Good to see they have been merged


----------



## JimmyKane

After updated and having syncronized with the new sports mode I cannot enable/disable things like HR belt , select alit profile etc. Only GPS is now in all activities. Was there in some before as well.


----------



## darkshait

JimmyKane said:


> After updated and having syncronized with the new sports mode I cannot enable/disable things like HR belt , select alit profile etc. Only GPS is now in all activities. Was there in some before as well.


You have to do those tasks from movescount and then sync the watch


----------



## no4

Hi Guys,

I have a problem with cable connection.
SSU is synchronizing with Movescount by phone (bluetooth), but not with computer, by cable.
I can't load new firmware.

Computer can find watch and Suuntolink start automatically after watch is plug in.
But Suuntolink stops at the beginning. 
I can see on startup window (but not use) "close icon" on the left and "setup icon" on the right either.
Anything more.

Can anybody help me?


----------



## petem99

no4 said:


> Computer can find watch and Suuntolink start automatically after watch is plug in.
> But Suuntolink stops at the beginning.
> I can see on startup window (but not use) "close icon" on the left and "setup icon" on the right either.
> Anything more.


I'm not sure you're getting the exact same symptoms as I do because I can use the Close and Setup icons so maybe your SuuntoLink is hanging if you can't use them, where mine isn't hanging but it just doesn't see the watch even though it clearly knew the watch is there or it would not have started itself up. I find that if I unplug the watch, do the 12-second reset and plug it back in, SuuntoLink does then see it and syncs properly, so it's worth doing that if you haven't tried it already.

If you don't know about the reset, just hold the top button down for at least 12 seconds then release it, and the watch will restart. In theory you shouldn't lose any activities saved on the watch and I haven't lost anything so far by restarting it, but I guess there's always a risk that could happen.


----------



## no4

Thank you, but it doesn't work in my case.

I've done:
1. installed newest version of Suuntolink
2. connected a watch (Suuntolink has started automatically)
3. disconnected a watch
4. reset a watch pressing 12s. upper button
5. again connected a watch

Unfortunately, it not helped.

Any other ideas?


----------



## HIKESOLO

I was very excited about this watch in the beginning, then my excitement went way downhill after reading early reviews and posts on this forum. So much so that as soon as I received by preorder I sold it as soon as I got it. 

My question is, now that some time has passed, a few firmware updates have been released...is it a good time to repurchase the watch? Are most users satisfied, or is this thing still a big mess? Thanks in advance for any input you might have.


----------



## CARLOS MLM

After the last update I have done 2 move, a race of 10 km and 5 minutes of stretching, are engraved on the clock the two movements, but when synchronizing with suuntolink only up to Movescount the move of stretching.


what's going on?


----------



## PTBC

HIKESOLO said:


> I was very excited about this watch in the beginning, then my excitement went way downhill after reading early reviews and posts on this forum. So much so that as soon as I received by preorder I sold it as soon as I got it.
> 
> My question is, now that some time has passed, a few firmware updates have been released...is it a good time to repurchase the watch? Are most users satisfied, or is this thing still a big mess? Thanks in advance for any input you might have.


If you are thinking about it as an outdoor, hiking watch then maybe better to wait until the navigation/POI features are added in a few months and see how it looks then. The last update does seem to have improved GPS performance for me (based on one move so still needs to be confirmed) and another report in the update thread also mentions improved GPS recording.


----------



## johan6504

GPS has not improved in 1.2.4 ad far as I can see 


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


----------



## Paulchen4711

Folks,

I wanted to let you know that after 4 weeks I finally received an answer from suunto customer service. I contacted them complaining about poor gps accuracy. Here is the translation of the reply: 

- For suunto SSU is in the centre of their development activities
- They are constantly trying to improve the watch (incl. GPS)
- For the time being they suggest to synch the watch at least 3 times a week in order to get best SGEE and thus gps accuracy
- This is deemed necessary as the antenna is located in the bezel (german: "Lünette") of the watch compared to (original quote) "our best gps watch ambit 3 peak" 

Interesting is from my point of view that they a) understand that regards gps something needs to be done and b) consider Ambit 3 peak as their best gps-accuracy watch.

BR Paulchen


----------



## no4

no4 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have a problem with cable connection.
> SSU is synchronizing with Movescount by phone (bluetooth), but not with computer, by cable.
> I can't load new firmware.
> 
> Computer can find watch and Suuntolink start automatically after watch is plug in.
> But Suuntolink stops at the beginning.
> I can see on startup window (but not use) "close icon" on the left and "setup icon" on the right either.
> Anything more.
> 
> Can anybody help me?


Problem partly solved.
This is computer not watch problem.

I installed Suuntolink on my wife's computer, plugged watch and everything was all right.
Now I have new FW on SSU.

Suuntolink on my computer is still hanging.
I tried re-installation and it didn't help.


----------



## slb78

hi all, i'm a newbie with sport watches. previously had just been a runner and used nike run app. i did my first tri last summer and have kept up with the swimming and biking. to that end understanding all of the watch functionality in the midst of all these bugs/software releases has been a little challenging.

on swimming i wanted to seek advice on how to use as my moves to date are not reflecting reality. for example, last session i started with 10 x 50 yards. at the completion of each 50 i would hit the lap button, rest ~10 seconds and go to the next 50. after the 50s i did a ladder of 100>200>400>400>200>100. after each interval, again i hit the lap button. in moves count after reviewing this move by filtering by "lap" i am seeing very different results from reality. some 50s showing as 38, some 50s grouped and split by 38 and 62, etc. showing my 400 as "rest"

if there is a better way to track my pace/100 for this type of workout it would be much appreciated.

fwiw, my run gps accuracy has been spotty. garbage in city i guess as expected, some runs in the suburbs on the same route accurate, some not. 

thanks for the help


----------



## zunka

wow, I'm glad I waited to buy this watch. Seems like Apple watch is a better way.


----------



## bluelee333633

CARLOS MLM said:


> After the last update I have done 2 move, a race of 10 km and 5 minutes of stretching, are engraved on the clock the two movements, but when synchronizing with suuntolink only up to Movescount the move of stretching.
> 
> what's going on?


software bug，only latest move sync to the movescount.

I did two pool swim and the latest one sync to the app, after than the app keeps telling syncing fail. i delete the move from log that was successful sync to the app, then finally the other move was synced .

从我的 iPad 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

bluelee333633 said:


> software bug，only latest move sync to the movescount.
> 
> I did two pool swim and the latest one sync to the app, after than the app keeps telling syncing fail. i delete the move from log that was successful sync to the app, then finally the other move was synced .
> 
> 从我的 iPad 发送，使用 Tapatalk


That's right. I think that is also mentioned in the release notes as a known issue.


----------



## Pegasus

Has anyone else noticed that under outside light the screen is almost blue in colour and has a black ring around the outside edge, the black ring is almost solid in colour apart from towards the bottom it has blue gaps before the screen flattens off?

I'm assuming it's something to do with the touch screen function but wanted to see if others had noticed it?

Thanks all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JimmyKane

Pegasus said:


> Has anyone else noticed that under outside light the screen is almost blue in colour and has a black ring around the outside edge, the black ring is almost solid in colour apart from towards the bottom it has blue gaps before the screen flattens off?
> 
> I'm assuming it's something to do with the touch screen function but wanted to see if others had noticed it?
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope


----------



## Pegasus

You can see it on this picture borrowed from google images -


----------



## PTBC

slb78 said:


> hi all, i'm a newbie with sport watches. previously had just been a runner and used nike run app. i did my first tri last summer and have kept up with the swimming and biking. to that end understanding all of the watch functionality in the midst of all these bugs/software releases has been a little challenging.
> 
> on swimming i wanted to seek advice on how to use as my moves to date are not reflecting reality. for example, last session i started with 10 x 50 yards. at the completion of each 50 i would hit the lap button, rest ~10 seconds and go to the next 50. after the 50s i did a ladder of 100>200>400>400>200>100. after each interval, again i hit the lap button. in moves count after reviewing this move by filtering by "lap" i am seeing very different results from reality. some 50s showing as 38, some 50s grouped and split by 38 and 62, etc. showing my 400 as "rest"
> 
> if there is a better way to track my pace/100 for this type of workout it would be much appreciated.
> 
> fwiw, my run gps accuracy has been spotty. garbage in city i guess as expected, some runs in the suburbs on the same route accurate, some not.
> 
> thanks for the help


There are some known bugs regarding swimming distance recording that Suunto have said they are working on, not sure if yours is one of them.

In terms of use you don't need to push the lap button at all, if you stop and wait (10 secs is fine) then the interval counter will revert to zero and then when you start it will record a new interval. It seems, based on some testing that Long_Haul did, that one of the bugs occurs (registers negative distances) if you do not stop long enough for the interval distance to reset. People reporting the negative distance bug have reported that waiting for the interval distance to reset has lead to the bug not repeating. The intervals are shown along with the laps under movescount and on the watch log. Possibly combining the lap button press with interval recording on the watch is causing some conflict with the data?

There was some discussion on the 1.2 update thread about this bug

https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-software-release-1-2-0-28-sep-2016-a-3622394-11.html


----------



## JimmyKane

PTBC said:


> There are some known bugs regarding swimming distance recording that Suunto have said they are working on, not sure if yours is one of them.
> 
> In terms of use you don't need to push the lap button at all, if you stop and wait (10 secs is fine) then the interval counter will revert to zero and then when you start it will record a new interval. It seems, based on some testing that Long_Haul did, that one of the bugs occurs (registers negative distances) if you do not stop long enough for the interval distance to reset. People reporting the negative distance bug have reported that waiting for the interval distance to reset has lead to the bug not repeating. The intervals are shown along with the laps under movescount and on the watch log. Possibly combining the lap button press with interval recording on the watch is causing some conflict with the data?
> 
> There was some discussion on the 1.2 update thread about this bug
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-software-release-1-2-0-28-sep-2016-a-3622394-11.html


The interval is per swimming style. You don't need to wait 10s. That is reseting the style for example. 
For me it works pretty accurate. I was confused as well at start. 
What I do is start with breast stroke for example and after 500m then I switch to freestyle. After I have done my freestyle line then it represents the new "style" lap. 
Now how it displays it it's a bit wierd at start but ok.

So back to our example it will show: somehting like

1. Rest
2. Breststroke 50
3. same
4. same
5. same
6.rest
6. freestyle etc

Take a look: JimmyKane's 1:07 h Pool swimming Move


----------



## JimmyKane

Pegasus said:


> You can see it on this picture borrowed from google images -


That circular gap is the target aerea that fills with yellow if you set a target


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> The interval is per swimming style. You don't need to wait 10s. That is reseting the style for example.
> For me it works pretty accurate. I was confused as well at start.
> What I do is start with breast stroke for example and after 500m then I switch to freestyle. After I have done my freestyle line then it represents the new "style" lap.
> Now how it displays it it's a bit wierd at start but ok.
> 
> So back to our example it will show: somehting like
> 
> 1. Rest
> 2. Breststroke 50
> 3. same
> 4. same
> 5. same
> 6.rest
> 6. freestyle etc
> 
> Take a look: JimmyKane's 1:07 h Pool swimming Move


Since the manual does not mention much (or any other references that I know of), and since some of the behavior described involves also Movescount, it can be easy to misunderstand each other here. I'm not sure I follow everything described here but i did start a thread just for pool swimming. There I described why a negative length distance is introduced. It is by design I'm pretty sure, as it works on our favor actually. I have not yet understood what Movescount does as far as displaying information, so I can't dive too much into that. I have been more focused on the behavior of the Spartan itself so far.

And on that note, I will mention that today my Spartan introduced two ghost lengths in my swim (effectively dividing one length in two, in two occasions). I'm mentioning that because that was my third swim after the update to 1.2.4 and I had not a had A SINGLE ghost length in two months swimming with it prior to the update. So keep your eyes peeled and make sure you are also minimally aware of your distance these post-update days. I will mention though that the swim session had a total of 160 lengths (over an hour and a half in the pool) and 2 ghost lengths were introduced in two separate intervals that were done at all-out pace. So maybe that has something to do with it. But then again, I have done this same workout a few times in August and September and length counting was spot on then.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> That circular gap is the target aerea that fills with yellow if you set a target


It is very faint but if I look very closely I think I can see a distinct ring at the very edge. Never noticed that before. Maybe the pixelation/addressing there is different? I thought it was a JDI but I can't find a product description that aludes to that.


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> It is very faint but if I look very closely I think I can see a distinct ring at the very edge. Never noticed that before. Maybe the pixelation/addressing there is different? I thought it was a JDI but I can't find a product description that aludes to that.


Yep, its imperceptible in most lights, just visible in bright daylight, no big deal just wondered what it was, thought I was seeing things 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> Yep, its imperceptible in most lights, just visible in bright daylight, no big deal just wondered what it was, thought I was seeing things


It does seem to correspond to the area that is used for the exercise target ring. BTW, that exercise target ring is proving to be one of those features I didn't think much of before purchase but as it turns out is extremely helpful. I most recently I have been setting my time target not to the workout time but to the total time I have until I have to be done and out of the pool/gym/house. Particularly in pool swims, I never know the exact total workout time, but I know when I need to be leaving the pool. It has helped getting to work on time more often


----------



## JimmyKane

LONG_HAUL said:


> It does seem to correspond to the area that is used for the exercise target ring. BTW, that exercise target ring is proving to be one of those features I didn't think much of before purchase but as it turns out is extremely helpful. I most recently I have been setting my time target not to the workout time but to the total time I have until I have to be done and out of the pool/gym/house. Particularly in pool swims, I never know the exact total workout time, but I know when I need to be leaving the pool. It has helped getting to work on time more often


Exactly


----------



## PTBC

JimmyKane said:


> The interval is per swimming style. You don't need to wait 10s. That is reseting the style for example.
> For me it works pretty accurate. I was confused as well at start.
> What I do is start with breast stroke for example and after 500m then I switch to freestyle. After I have done my freestyle line then it represents the new "style" lap.
> Now how it displays it it's a bit wierd at start but ok.
> 
> So back to our example it will show: somehting like
> 
> 1. Rest
> 2. Breststroke 50
> 3. same
> 4. same
> 5. same
> 6.rest
> 6. freestyle etc
> 
> Take a look: JimmyKane's 1:07 h Pool swimming Move


Have they turned on swim style recognition then? didn't see that in release notes


----------



## slb78

The interval is per swimming style. You don't need to wait 10s. That is reseting the style for example. 
For me it works pretty accurate. I was confused as well at start. 
What I do is start with breast stroke for example and after 500m then I switch to freestyle. After I have done my freestyle line then it represents the new "style" lap. 
Now how it displays it it's a bit wierd at start but ok. 

So back to our example it will show: somehting like

1. Rest
2. Breststroke 50
3. same
4. same
5. same
6.rest
6. freestyle etc

Take a look:


thanks to all for the swim feedback, helpful info. will give the next few sessions a try without manually hitting lap.


----------



## IronP

no4 said:


> Problem partly solved.
> This is computer not watch problem.
> 
> I installed Suuntolink on my wife's computer, plugged watch and everything was all right.
> Now I have new FW on SSU.
> 
> Suuntolink on my computer is still hanging.
> I tried re-installation and it didn't help.


Did you try plugging the usb directly to the computer (not using switches)....or trying another usb port in the computer?


----------



## CARLOS MLM

Thank you


----------



## snowleopardw

no4 said:


> Problem partly solved.
> This is computer not watch problem.
> 
> I installed Suuntolink on my wife's computer, plugged watch and everything was all right.
> Now I have new FW on SSU.
> 
> Suuntolink on my computer is still hanging.
> I tried re-installation and it didn't help.


Right click. Run as administrator.


----------



## JimmyKane

Can we somehow trigger that the backlight stays on or off? Except from manual setting....


----------



## marcomueller

Since the last Uptdate the SSU don't connect with bluetooth to my iphone6s. The iphone from my wife and daughter also did not find the SSU. Someone has the same problem? I have already made a 12sec restart and I have already completely reset via Suuntolink. Interestingly, the SSU connect with the HF-sensor. Please help me


----------



## milkofamnesia

Have you tried to restart / hardreset iphone?


----------



## capcav73

Compass calibration and charger magnet :
make this test : open watch compass screen and approach the magnet of the charger. at around 10cm, the compass ask for calibration.
thus, after each connection with suuntolink and the charger, you have to calibrate compass.


----------



## JimmyKane

capcav73 said:


> Compass calibration and charger magnet :
> make this test : open watch compass screen and approach the magnet of the charger. at around 10cm, the compass ask for calibration.
> thus, after each connection with suuntolink and the charger, you have to calibrate compass.


TADAN!


----------



## PTBC

capcav73 said:


> Compass calibration and charger magnet :
> make this test : open watch compass screen and approach the magnet of the charger. at around 10cm, the compass ask for calibration.
> thus, after each connection with suuntolink and the charger, you have to calibrate compass.


I did wonder about the magnetic charger, especially as people have wondered about charging it while in use. Compass does seem to calibrate quicker since the last update, Not sure if either they have extended the time before it gives up and goes back to menu screen, but I haven't had that happen since the update, when before it would take a couple of attempts to calibrate sometimes.


----------



## Unperson

Does anyone know if there is a mode on the watch that allows you to set a distance as a target in stead of time? I figured the 'race' variant of running would default to distance but the 'targets' screen only allows time to be set as a target there too. The plural use (targetS) seems to hint to different options, I wonder why distance is not a standard option.

Unless I'm missing something this is one more thing to put on the list of wanted features, next to adding compass view as a page to the hiking mode and introducing a screen somewhere that just reports your GPS position so you can also use the SSU's compass and GPS position to work with a map.


----------



## Jaka83

I think the engineers are just swarmed with work right now and the "targets" feature is very low on their priority list. I wish the hiking modes would default to distance and have an option of target ascend too, but we'll just have to wait.

GPS position will probably be implemented when we get WP/POI support on the watch, so about two/three updates away.


----------



## PTBC

Unperson said:


> Does anyone know if there is a mode on the watch that allows you to set a distance as a target in stead of time? I figured the 'race' variant of running would default to distance but the 'targets' screen only allows time to be set as a target there too. The plural use (targetS) seems to hint to different options, I wonder why distance is not a standard option.
> 
> Unless I'm missing something this is one more thing to put on the list of wanted features, next to adding compass view as a page to the hiking mode and introducing a screen somewhere that just reports your GPS position so you can also use the SSU's compass and GPS position to work with a map.


Would be good to have distance (and eventually other targets), also some more granularity than 10 minute increments for duration. For now I've used a route and the zoomed out view to quickly gauge current distance vs total distance on some hikes.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> Would be good to have distance (and eventually other targets), also some more granularity than 10 minute increments for duration. For now I've used a route and the zoomed out view to quickly gauge current distance vs total distance on some hikes.


I was under the impression that is going to be part of the training functionality they plan on releasing.


----------



## Hecke

capcav73 said:


> Compass calibration and charger magnet...


Although this is not very surprising, I wonder how well the navigation works when I have to recharge my watch in longer races. Darn.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Hecke said:


> Although this is not very surprising, I wonder how well the navigation works when I have to recharge my watch in longer races. Darn.


Let's just assume that is indeed a problem. And that you had to resolve this problem using an old random USB cable, tape, and a plier, how would you go about it? Tip: think along the lines of "what would Macgyver do?"


----------



## capcav73

LONG_HAUL said:


> Let's just assume that is indeed a problem. And that you had to resolve this problem using an old random USB cable, tape, and a plier, how would you go about it? Tip: think along the lines of "what would Macgyver do?"


Macgyver didn't spent 700€


----------



## LONG_HAUL

capcav73 said:


> Macgyver didn't spent 700€


Alright. Make that James Bond then.


----------



## rotia

call me naive... but according with suunto forms about spartan there a lot of features that they are considering to put into this watch...


I recommend to spend a two minute to fill it... maybe they can listen our prayers....

suunto.fluidsurveys.com/surveys/suunto/spartan-survey/?_ga=1.225861016.347060690.1465826223


----------



## gousias

rotia said:


> call me naive... but according with suunto forms about spartan there a lot of features that they are considering to put into this watch...
> 
> I recommend to spend a two minute to fill it... maybe they can listen our prayers....
> 
> suunto.fluidsurveys.com/surveys/suunto/spartan-survey/?_ga=1.225861016.347060690.1465826223


Definitely not on this model! At least for a few lacking features such as optical hr! But then again I am still considering if I can wait furthermore.


----------



## JimmyKane

gousias said:


> Definitely not on this model! At least for a few lacking features such as optical hr! But then again I am still considering if I can wait furthermore.


Καλησπέρα (Eng: Goodevening) Gousia,

According to DCRainmaker they are working on the HR version I ve read. 
That said, optical HR is very inaccurate because of the position. Tattoos apply the tattoo gate effect and also really bright light like in Greece. 
I have tested with optical HR the following products: 
- Mio link (Arm)
- Fenix 3
- Motorola 360 Sport
- M600 
- Jabra Sport Pulse (earphones)
- The Dash (earphones)

Non of them do not even compare to for example Polar H7 (have not tested the suunto so much). 
From inaccurate values, to jumping timeframes to slow response. 
That is for 4 reasons imho:
1. Positioning, for example if the watch moves. That can happen eg when you bike and if you don't have it high enough on the wrist thus you can be moving it with every turn. Also the same applies if you are doing strength training etc. 
2. Light. Bright light like summer sun in Greece affected a lot of time the Fenix3 because it's optical sensors are not that well covered in comparison for example with the Mio Link
3. Sweat, water and anything that can distort light waves 
4. Software. Software and moreover propertiary software (never gets fixed) is the one that determines what is a pulse and what not. Similar to the put your finger in your phones camera to measure your HR, but with the correct tech behind it(LED etc). They know well to average and stabilise but sudden moves etc are very very hard to catch up. Take also a look at DCRainmakers charts.

That said, if you are a performance runner optical HR will not benefit you much. As far for your wait, give it some minor time to see what the 19th and 26th update brings and reconsider.
I would also prompt you, assuming you live in Greece (assumptions can be totally wrong eh!), beware and buy it from a shop that offers the 2year warranty and a 14day test period as they should.


----------



## dogrunner

I would absolutely NOT buy a watch with built-in optical HR, because the wrist is probably the worst place for optical HR for the reasons you described. It's a thin highly mobile and often moving part that is problematic for reliable and continuous HRM. At least that has been my experience with the Mio Link HRM that DCR recommended. OTOH, I have gotten very good results with the Scosche Rythm+ worn snuggly above my left elbow and the HRM itself over the "meaty" front portion of the tricep, behind the bicep. That does not shift much when running and there is enough muscle / soft tissue that the HRM stays snugged against, so light leak is not a problem. I have not tried Ultra distance with it because I do not race with an HRM (GPS watch is the limit to electronic gear fiddling I am willing to pay attention to during a race). In other words, the SSU if they ever get it working properly (GPS, battery life, nav features) for me does not require internal HRM to be useful. Obviously everyone will have different needs and preferences.


----------



## Hecke

LONG_HAUL said:


> "what would Macgyver do?"


Where's my paper clip? Darn, I left it somewhere...

On a serious note: I cannot see where this will _not_ be a problem. But I'll check it out in the coming week.


----------



## watchvids

Not sure if people have noticed but few of the upcoming updates have been postponed. There are updates on suunto homepage.

Seems that the GPS problems are now really being investigated. Quote:


> We have received feedback from some of our users on inconsistent GPS performance of Spartan watches, and have put significant effort into investigating this. Some users have seen highly accurate tracking in whole range of sports, while others have seen problems during even basic activities. This inconsistency had not manifested in our pre-launch testing, and it's not how the GPS of Spartan should behave. Together with our GPS chip provider, we have now found a bug that is affecting the chip's performance. We expect to release an update improving the GPS performance and accuracy of the Spartan in November.


----------



## gousias

@JimmyKane: Good evening! Thank you for your reference. I am aware of DCR's article above on this subject and I agree that wrist optical hr is not the most accurate and therefore best solution for precision measurement, at least not yet. However, I would consider as a benefit the optical hr on this watch (or and any watch) for the case someone would like to use it at some part of daily life. Of course for more hardcore or at least, serious training, I would agree to use a belt. Wouldn't it be better to have these options to choose on the watch?!
Concerning the 14day and 2year option is a bit ...luxury in Greece!


----------



## darkshait

Thank you Suunto the most awaited update and...

We also need to delay the scheduled October 26th update (Sport mode customization, training plans to your watch and more) to later this year. Our team is reviewing the development obstacles related to this and we'll share more details as soon as we can.


----------



## PTBC

darkshait said:


> Thank you Suunto the most awaited update and...
> 
> We also need to delay the scheduled October 26th update (Sport mode customization, training plans to your watch and more) to later this year. Our team is reviewing the development obstacles related to this and we'll share more details as soon as we can.


The bit I don't like the statement is 'development obstacles related to this' which implies that it's not just delayed due to re-prioritising GPS issues etc., but that they have some problems with the update.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> The bit I don't like the statement is 'development obstacles related to this' which implies that it's not just delayed due to re-prioritising GPS issues etc., but that they have some problems with the update.


I secretly hope they are working on sensor connection reliability.


----------



## borgelkranz

PTBC said:


> The bit I don't like the statement is 'development obstacles related to this' which implies that it's not just delayed due to re-prioritising GPS issues etc., but that they have some problems with the update.


Still they clearly acknowledge that there are GPS problems as reported by the community, i.e. us.

And they make clear that it's their top prio. So they clearly listen to us. This after all is what most were crying for...

Let's give them some cheers and some time to sort things out!


----------



## Jaka83

This is me giving them time to sort things out ... ... ... ...

They already have my money, I think that's more than enough support, but still I will shout GO SUUNTO!


----------



## borgelkranz

Jaka83 said:


> This is me giving them time to sort things out ... ... ... ...
> 
> They already have my money, I think that's more than enough support, but still I will shout GO SUUNTO!


But isn't it cool that they are working on it, even though they already have our money?

This is as close to how it should be as it can be, as far as I am concerned. ?

Another. GO SUUNTO GO!


----------



## ascender

Just trying to link a Spartan to an iPhone 7. I've made sure discovery is enabled on the Spartan but the iOS app never finds it. I've tried turning discovery on/off, bluetooth on/off, power cycling phone, watch and nothing.

Any ideas?

In terms of feedback, my first impressions are that its clearly a work in progress. Missing features aside...


I wish they'd not ditched the back button, but I'm sure I'll get used to that.
The screen brightness is really poor unless on 100% which will kill the battery - all the promotional shots show are showing all these bright vivid colours, so I thought I had a faulty watch at first.
The UI isn't intuitive compared to the Ambits, but that will become second nature with use.
Silicon strap is really nice - soft, light and comfortable.
Touchscreen is a bit sluggish. Not a major thing, but was this design in order to cope with use in poor weather?
Redraw of icons on screen when selecting an activity is very poor - looks like a performance issue - it feels like a buggy version of software.

I'd sold my Ambit3 and hadn't planned replacing it yet but in the end needed to get something, but if I didn't _need_ to, I'd probably have held off a bit longer as this just doesn't feel like a finished product.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

borgelkranz said:


> But isn't it cool that they are working on it, even though they already have our money?
> 
> This is as close to how it should be as it can be, as far as I am concerned.
> 
> Another. GO SUUNTO GO!


In the way I read the note on Suunto website, I actually got the impression they communicated with the chip manufacturer (Sirf?) and that's when they discovered the bug. It got me thinking the bug was actually on the GPS module side of things and not so much on the Suunto side. Suunto is a customer just like us in cases like this and I would not be surprised it they themselves have to wait for some type of firmware update from Sirf. Maybe I read too much into it?


----------



## Jaka83

borgelkranz said:


> But isn't it cool that they are working on it, even though they already have our money?
> 
> This is as close to how it should be as it can be, as far as I am concerned. 
> 
> Another. GO SUUNTO GO!


The way I see it, this is the next best thing to thoroughly testing the units before putting them on sale. It's a complex gadget and there are bound to be bugs on release, but there are some major ones that hinder usability, so it looks to me Suunto didn't do their homework.
Still, I'm supportive but will know better next time I buy a sport watch.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

I really wish Suunto hadn't stopped labeling their devices "wristop computers". Now, after all, that would be more appropriate than ever before. It's hardly just a "sports watch" anymore... and the complexity shows, especially now that they have started on this all-new platform of the Spartan...


----------



## packers4life

ascender said:


> Just trying to link a Spartan to an iPhone 7. I've made sure discovery is enabled on the Spartan but the iOS app never finds it. I've tried turning discovery on/off, bluetooth on/off, power cycling phone, watch and nothing.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> In terms of feedback, my first impressions are that its clearly a work in progress. Missing features aside...
> 
> 
> I wish they'd not ditched the back button, but I'm sure I'll get used to that.
> The screen brightness is really poor unless on 100% which will kill the battery - all the promotional shots show are showing all these bright vivid colours, so I thought I had a faulty watch at first.
> The UI isn't intuitive compared to the Ambits, but that will become second nature with use.
> Silicon strap is really nice - soft, light and comfortable.
> Touchscreen is a bit sluggish. Not a major thing, but was this design in order to cope with use in poor weather?
> Redraw of icons on screen when selecting an activity is very poor - looks like a performance issue - it feels like a buggy version of software.
> 
> I'd sold my Ambit3 and hadn't planned replacing it yet but in the end needed to get something, but if I didn't _need_ to, I'd probably have held off a bit longer as this just doesn't feel like a finished product.


Same issue with iPhone 7. What I do is when the watch cannot be found is go to details in the upper left hand corner. Then say forget device. Movescount forgets but your iPhone does not. Then select add watch and it will find and ask to pair. Then it will pair and you can sync moves. This is my workaround until Suunto sorts it out. Hope this helps.


----------



## PTBC

Jaka83 said:


> The way I see it, this is the next best thing to thoroughly testing the units before putting them on sale. It's a complex gadget and there are bound to be bugs on release, but there are some major ones that hinder usability, so it looks to me Suunto didn't do their homework.
> Still, I'm supportive but will know better next time I buy a sport watch.


Yes, it does make you wonder about their testing criteria that they missed this bug, you would assume they tested in a variety of conditions and environments and using multiple units


----------



## JimmyKane

PTBC said:


> Yes, it does make you wonder about their testing criteria that they missed this bug, you would assume they tested in a variety of conditions and environments and using multiple units


DCRainmaker's moves seem quite different to what others have....


----------



## PTBC

JimmyKane said:


> DCRainmaker's moves seem quite different to what others have....


Maybe I should have added multiple testers as well!


----------



## Jaka83

PTBC said:


> Yes, it does make you wonder about their testing criteria that they missed this bug, you would assume they tested in a variety of conditions and environments and using multiple units


It didn't take a handful of end users to find the bugs. Unless Suunto was aware of it all and the marketing and sales department forced the development to say it's ready. I've witnessed this before, just in a different field of work.


----------



## ascender

packers4life said:


> Same issue with iPhone 7. What I do is when the watch cannot be found is go to details in the upper left hand corner. Then say forget device. Movescount forgets but your iPhone does not. Then select add watch and it will find and ask to pair. Then it will pair and you can sync moves. This is my workaround until Suunto sorts it out. Hope this helps.


Thanks, will try this tomorrow and see what happens.

Speculating, it does feel a bit like Suunto have been caught on the hop a bit by all the different alternatives out there now from traditional competitors and newer ones to the fitness tracker/smart watch arena and have rushed something to market. Did they need to though?


----------



## PTBC

Jaka83 said:


> It didn't take a handful of end users to find the bugs. Unless Suunto was aware of it all and the marketing and sales department forced the development to say it's ready. I've witnessed this before, just in a different field of work.


Generally I've seen it plenty of times, when the schedule is tight and starts slipping it's usually testing that's the first thing out of the window to try and pull things back on course...as the saying goes....in time, in scope, in budget, pick any 2 out of 3


----------



## LONG_HAUL

ascender said:


> Thanks, will try this tomorrow and see what happens.
> 
> Speculating, it does feel a bit like Suunto have been caught on the hop a bit by all the different alternatives out there now from traditional competitors and newer ones to the fitness tracker/smart watch arena and have rushed something to market. Did they need to though?


There are different points of view. I think they have no reason to wait. What they are rolling out is absolutely massive. And it is not all going to get better by simply holding on to it. I think they want to release early so they can compete more directly with Watch. I think it is more about available cash/holidays shopping than about feature overlap or use cases. They just want it all to be out there selling as much as possible, holding on to the market, and to be working on improving it all in a more focused manner as quickly as possible. And I appreciate and support that. Not everyone thinks the same way, as I said, but I think that's fine too. I did think the update roadmap was simply too much too soon. But I didn't mention anything before. Even with the announced delays it is still a lot of ground to cover very quickly. I wish them good luck. They will need it. If by February they have half of the stuff they now want to roll out, all ironed out, they will be in fantastic shape for the year.


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> There are different points of view. I think they have no reason to wait. What they are rolling out is absolutely massive. And it is not all going to get better by simply holding on to it. I think they want to release early so they can compete more directly with Watch. I think it is more about available cash/holidays shopping than about feature overlap or use cases. They just want it all to be out there selling as much as possible, holding on to the market, and to be working on improving it all in a more focused manner as quickly as possible. And I appreciate and support that. Not everyone thinks the same way, as I said, but I think that's fine too. I did think the update roadmap was simply too much too soon. But I didn't mention anything before. Even with the announced delays it is still a lot of ground to cover very quickly. I wish them good luck. They will need it. If by February they have half of the stuff they now want to roll out, all ironed out, they will be in fantastic shape for the year.


If they sort out the now acknowledged GPS issue I think that will buy them quite a bit of breathing space on the other features as people understand the need to prioritise it.
One issue with what they have done/are doing is the impact on reviewers, and people spending this much money will often look for reviews and additional info, some reviewers have (to my mind rightly) said they won't issue an in depth review while the feature set is where it was at launch etc. as it wouldn't be fair to the watch. That can impact sales and offset the early launch impact.


----------



## PTBC

Noticed on movescount that unless you show pauses the pause time is rolled into the duration on autolaps, but if you show pauses it then splits the autolap into section before and after pause so harder to do comparisons.
I guess the assumption is that you don't randomly stop running for any significant period of time, especially on shorter runs, doesn't work out that way when you are taking the dog with you though....maybe I need a dog running sport mode, shame the update slipped.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> ...some reviewers have said they won't issue an in depth review while the feature set is where it was at launch...That can impact sales and offset the early launch impact.


If so, long term, would it not be on companies best interest to not foster reviewers' ability to impact sales?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Considering I'm still struggling with people who need to be told that the Kailash isn't made for sports, it feels like reviewers are needed...

Re. GPS performance and testing: There's been quite a bit of testing happening, but it's still only too easy to a) assume something is really a non-issue, just a random bad day or b) not catch an issue yet, when you still have a more-limited amount of testers. Also, I see lots of bug lists/reports where people think they need to tell Suunto, and they've been aware of (and working on) them for a while already, just didn't communicate it (well).

Wish I could clearly tell you why the Android app was delayed, the way it was said at Suunto...


----------



## newtonfb

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> .
> 
> Wish I could clearly tell you why the Android app was delayed, the way it was said at Suunto...


What you mean? 
It's now been 3 years since Suunto has hired Android developers. I honestly think they took guys who knew how to code a little bit and told them to figure out Android. I can't believe in 2016 it's still this big of an issue.


----------



## Ingo

Jaka83 said:


> This is me giving them time to sort things out ... ... ... ...
> 
> They already have my money, I think that's more than enough support, but still I will shout GO SUUNTO!


Suunto is taking a page from Kickstarter's book, raise funding first and then develop the product. All the risk lies with the early backer. Wondering only what the incentive was to get you all into the SSU.

Is that were "established" companies go now?


----------



## rotia

Looking back of the case I've noticed that this text worn ... is someone noticed this issue? I think my old ambit 2s is new as the same day with 3 years old :-(


----------



## ascender

I've had a few Ambits which have all had very tough lives, but no, the text on the back has never worn off.

Re Android, is the challenge the usual one for developers where there's so many variants of hardware and OS to aim for, then test against?


----------



## gousias

rotia said:


> Looking back of the case I've noticed that this text worn ... is someone noticed this issue? I think my old ambit 2s is new as the same day with 3 years old :-(
> 
> View attachment 9692426


If the serial number gets in the same or is it not placed there?! Well, someone might claim that it can be reached through software... then again, marvelous situations!


----------



## Jaka83

My Ambit1 was the same when it came to "scratching" the text at the back of the watch. It just turns grey and doesn't go away. Wish I'd taken a photo of it before I sold it.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Considering I'm still struggling with people who need to be told that the Kailash isn't made for sports, it feels like reviewers are needed...


There are positives in what reviewers do. But there are negatives too. Nobody goes around reviewing and ranking the reviewers themselves, so we can't just pop open a blog to read about reviewers' good and bad moments (someone should do this!). But even Amazon had to chop a whole bunch of "reviewers" who were actually getting money to post good reviews (and bad). And this is something that has been changing dramatically over the past years and has become a multibody problem. For one thing, we now find ourselves paying a ton of money for complicated gadgets that don't come with any manuals.

When I used to purchase HP calculators, I remember how most of the stuff in the box was manuals. And there were even extra books published by HP to expand on that and instruct customers on how to apply the functions offered by the calculators in more complicated cases. I loved all that and spent hours reading books and testing routines on my calculators. Now we buy these watches, no manual comes with it (a small pamphlet that says "manual" in the cover and tells you how to charge it does not qualify as a manual), and there is no information being passed to us in any other way, like books or magazine articles on specific functions. From all multi-sport companies, Suunto at least produces some instructional material they post online. But most companies just abandon us immediately after purchase to figure it all out on our own, with limited or disjoint online content. That's a problem! In that being the case, of course it is appreciated when someone comes along and publishes helpful basic information about a watch. I'm not denying that. And I find myself reading reviews about equipment I already own, way more often than about equipment I'm going to buy. But some reviewers take that opportunity and transform it into a mechanism to reinforce their own point of view on entire product lines, even openly saying they can impact sales. In my opinion, that is what really needs to change. Bloggers are now very impactful marketing managers. The companies should be the ones providing critical instruction on basic use. They should be taking responsibility for the features described, so the product functions the way it is described, for the life of the product, across all firmware updates. We should see a manual as part of a contract and demand it, instead of overanalyzing minimized online list of features and falling back on someone's blog for basic operation instructions.


----------



## dcrainmaker

JimmyKane said:


> DCRainmaker's moves seem quite different to what others have....


How so?

Fwiw, I published a boatload of SSU comparative data with my M600 review that published yesterday, as I wore the SSU with virtually every activity I did the M600 on. I added in the tables today, for those that want to dive deeper. This doesn't obviously include any July/August data for just the SSU, or data that doesn't show the M600.


----------



## johan6504

Originally Posted by *JimmyKane* 
_DCRainmaker's moves seem quite different to what others have...._



dcrainmaker said:


> How so?
> 
> Fwiw, I published a boatload of SSU comparative data with my M600 review that published yesterday, as I wore the SSU with virtually every activity I did the M600 on. I added in the tables today, for those that want to dive deeper. This doesn't obviously include any July/August data for just the SSU, or data that doesn't show the M600.


I looked at your SSU data both when you published your first GPS preview and now in comparison to the M600. My SSU tracking is sadly enough not even close to what you get. I see constant large offset in all my runs and in many cases (if not most) the result is completely missed Strava segments. My second Spartan Ultra is now in for a change and I can only hope that a third unit will result in a working GPS.


----------



## PTBC

capcav73 said:


> Compass calibration and charger magnet :
> make this test : open watch compass screen and approach the magnet of the charger. at around 10cm, the compass ask for calibration.
> thus, after each connection with suuntolink and the charger, you have to calibrate compass.


charged overnight and compass didn't need to be calibrated today


----------



## capcav73

PTBC said:


> charged overnight and compass didn't need to be calibrated today


Same this morning.
I retest just now, and connecting magnet makes compass need calibration.
Strange.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

ascender said:


> Re Android, is the challenge the usual one for developers where there's so many variants of hardware and OS to aim for, then test against?


Of course. And then someone has one of the newest phones and it refuses/refused to play nice...


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

capcav73 said:


> Same this morning.
> I retest just now, and connecting magnet makes compass need calibration.
> Strange.


Connecting the magnetic charger while using the compass? Or in general?


----------



## capcav73

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Connecting the magnetic charger while using the compass? Or in general?


_make this test : open watch compass screen and approach the magnet of the charger. at around 10cm, the compass ask for calibration.

_Nothing useful in real life, but it could explain why compass need calibration after charging. Actually, it seems not to make it each time.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

johan6504 said:


> Originally Posted by *JimmyKane*
> _DCRainmaker's moves seem quite different to what others have...._
> 
> I looked at your SSU data both when you published your first GPS preview and now in comparison to the M600. My SSU tracking is sadly enough not even close to what you get. I see constant large offset in all my runs and in many cases (if not most) the result is completely missed Strava segments. My second Spartan Ultra is now in for a change and I can only hope that a third unit will result in a working GPS.


Now imagine you're a company, you've tested a product and got good results, then this starts happening... I'm getting results I could live with, too. Helsinki City Trail wasn't ideal (both A3P and SSU without recent SGEE), but nothing very far off, other runs very good. Next up, Venice Marathon (let's see if I'll run over water, and not where they put the pontoon bridge), then it's time to head for the mountains - and then it's time to see about that GPS bug fix, hopefully...


----------



## Pegasus

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Now imagine you're a company, you've tested a product and got good results, then this starts happening... I'm getting results I could live with, too. Helsinki City Trail wasn't ideal (both A3P and SSU without recent SGEE), but nothing very far off, other runs very good. Next up, Venice Marathon (let's see if I'll run over water, and not where they put the pontoon bridge), then it's time to head for the mountains - and then it's time to see about that GPS bug fix, hopefully...


Perhaps we need country specific firmware to deal with change of environment 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> Perhaps we need country specific firmware to deal with change of environment
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Special rain mode for Wales


----------



## PTBC

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Connecting the magnetic charger while using the compass? Or in general?


Not using the compass, just connecting it and charging, then checking the compass after removing it. So charging doesn't necessarily trigger compass re-calibration, compass seems much more stable since 1.24


----------



## antjoh

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Of course. And then someone has one of the newest phones and it refuses/refused to play nice...


That's such BS. Android might be fragmented but it's perfectly doable to get a stable BT connection.
Just look at Pebble, with which I used 4 different phones and one tablet and it has always played nice.

But of course, it's probably easier to blame external factors than to hire people that know what they are doing.


----------



## rdm01

antjoh said:


> That's such BS. Android might be fragmented but it's perfectly doable to get a stable BT connection.
> Just look at Pebble, with which I used 4 different phones and one tablet and it has always played nice.
> 
> But of course, it's probably easier to blame external factors than to hire people that know what they are doing.


Also Garmins work pretty good and stable so something wrong with the dev team there

deporteporvida.com


----------



## LONG_HAUL

rdm01 said:


> ...Garmins work pretty good and stable...


It looks like some users would digress:

https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?446-Garmin-Connect-Mobile-Android

And in Pebble's support own words when replying to different issues:

"We've tested Pebble with multiple (OS 2.3.3 and up) Android devices from HTC, Samsung, Nexus (among others) and always on the stock OS. However, we cannot guarantee that Pebble will be able to work with...bla...bla...bla."

It is all over their support site.


----------



## JimmyKane

Having tested the Android app and connection, as I said before it's great. What I will do for you guys is try to provide this to you one way or another. 
They have rewritten the whole f$# Bluetooth connection and sync plus they add offline support for ambit and traverse. As far as I know they do have a new lead Android dev etc.


----------



## paul1928

JimmyKane said:


> Having tested the Android app and connection, as I said before it's great. What I will do for you guys is try to provide this to you one way or another.


How would you do that?


----------



## JimmyKane

For example what I did was to to ask to become beta at [email protected] and that was it. I can ask if they want more testers and if they would accept a public beta.


----------



## rdm01

LONG_HAUL said:


> It looks like some users would digress:
> 
> https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?446-Garmin-Connect-Mobile-Android
> 
> And in Pebble's support own words when replying to different issues:
> 
> "We've tested Pebble with multiple (OS 2.3.3 and up) Android devices from HTC, Samsung, Nexus (among others) and always on the stock OS. However, we cannot guarantee that Pebble will be able to work with...bla...bla...bla."
> 
> It is all over their support site.


I'm talking about my experience with FR920XT, Fenix 3 and FR620 (only syncing workouts). To be honest those devices were always connected to Samsung smartphones (S3, S4, Note 4) and a Nexus 6. I didn't know about other brands and models.

In addition Ambit3 worked fine with all my stuff. I'm not saying Android Bluetooth stack is easy to manage but they did it pretty well with the Ambit3.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Jaka83

JimmyKane said:


> For example what I did was to to ask to become beta at [email protected] and that was it. I can ask if they want more testers and if they would accept a public beta.


I would like that very much. BTW, it's a bit odd suunto would use a Gmail account for this, don't you think. 

A bit off topic - I'm enrolled in the Android Beta program too and am currently running Android 7.1.1 developer preview build NPF10C on my Nexus 6P. If your phone is supported (https://www.google.com/android/beta), it's easier to get it than the Movescount beta app.


----------



## BobMiles

rdm01 said:


> In addition Ambit3 worked fine with all my stuff. I'm not saying Android Bluetooth stack is easy to manage but they did it pretty well with the Ambit3.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


I had nothing but issues syncing my A3P with a huawei P8. And also the Nexus 5 had problems. The most recent android release put up with some of the bugs, but I still had to re-pair (nice pun) it every other week.. 
So I'm glad they seem to put much effort into the development of their Android app.


----------



## ascender

No matter what I do my iPhone can't see the Spartan. I've checked their Youtube videos about the Spartan pairing process (as the dim screen and not-great UI is just a wee bit vague) and I'm doing nothing wrong. Have reset the watch, the phone, bluetooth on and off etc...

Any other ideas?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

ascender said:


> No matter what I do my iPhone can't see the Spartan. I've checked their Youtube videos about the Spartan pairing process (as the dim screen and not-great UI is just a wee bit vague) and I'm doing nothing wrong. Have reset the watch, the phone, bluetooth on and off etc...
> 
> Any other ideas?


Have you ever been able to pair? When did the problem start?


----------



## ascender

LONG_HAUL said:


> Have you ever been able to pair? When did the problem start?


I just got the watch this week and its never worked. I've dropped Suunto a line, will see what they suggest.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

ascender said:


> I just got the watch this week and its never worked. I've dropped Suunto a line, will see what they suggest.


That sounds like a good approach since the unit you received has never been paired. Suunto should be able to assist you. Just out of curiosity, can you pair a sensor? (Heart rate monitor, power, speed, cadence, footpod)


----------



## JimmyKane

They have to use a Gmail account. 
If you want to be an android dev you need to have a Gmail account to login to the developer console. From there you can manage testers, manually add addresses, stage rollouts and create beta channels. 

That said I proposed to suunto to create an open beta.


----------



## ascender

LONG_HAUL said:


> That sounds like a good approach since the unit you received has never been paired. Suunto should be able to assist you. Just out of curiosity, can you pair a sensor? (Heart rate monitor, power, speed, cadence, footpod)


Yes, HRM paired first time.


----------



## Unperson

ascender said:


> No matter what I do my iPhone can't see the Spartan. I've checked their Youtube videos about the Spartan pairing process (as the dim screen and not-great UI is just a wee bit vague) and I'm doing nothing wrong. Have reset the watch, the phone, bluetooth on and off etc...
> 
> Any other ideas?


iPhone (SE in my case) pairing is a mess for me as well, it pairs up and the watch gets all texts and mails and phone messages et cetera but the iPhone app rarely sees the watch in one go. I often switch bluetooth off and on but sometimes even that doesn't work. I always have to fiddle around to get my moves to sync to movescount.

You can try removing and re-installing the app on your iPhone, that worked for me after the last watch firmware update, when I just couldn't get the phone to see the watch at all.


----------



## PTBC

ascender said:


> No matter what I do my iPhone can't see the Spartan. I've checked their Youtube videos about the Spartan pairing process (as the dim screen and not-great UI is just a wee bit vague) and I'm doing nothing wrong. Have reset the watch, the phone, bluetooth on and off etc...
> 
> Any other ideas?


Not to be obvious, but discovery is turned on? Not the spartan, but I've had problems pairing something once and it was related to settings, also doesn't hurt to toggle it off and back on if needed.


----------



## ascender

Yes, I tried toggling everything on and off. Suunto support have suggested I check if Airplane mode is on. *sigh*.....


----------



## LONG_HAUL

ascender said:


> Yes, I tried toggling everything on and off. Suunto support have suggested I check if Airplane mode is on. *sigh*.....


Can the phone pair with other watches?Can you try pairing to another phone? Yes and no? Then unpair/forget everything on watch. Unpair watch on phone. Remove Movescount app from phone. Press top button for 12 seconds to reset watch. Open Movescount on PC and reset watch settings to "factory-settings". Plug watch to PC and force firmware update to same version using a freshly re-installed moveslink app. After update, do another 12 sec reset. Try pairing again front scratch. That's about what I would do before returning it. Never had a problem with pairing/notifications/syncing on iPhone myself so not sure what else to suggest. Hope support can help you.


----------



## JimmyKane

From the android beta channel in case pairing has problems:

Step 1: Try turning bluetooth off and back on from android settings.
Step 2: If Step 1 does not fix the issue, restart the phone.
Step 3: if Step 2 does not fix this issue un-pair bluetooth from both phone and watch and pair again.


----------



## j--l

ascender said:


> Yes, I tried toggling everything on and off. Suunto support have suggested I check if Airplane mode is on. *sigh*.....


Sorry to doublecheck..you're trying to do the pairing by selecting settings/pairing/mobile app (on SSU) and then on MC app Watch + ... right? (Not directly on iPhone BL settings).


----------



## ascender

Yes, am doing it through the app. Looks like it might be a faulty watch so will sort out a return.

In terms of brightness, what setting are you all using to get a decent trade-off between battery life and being able to see the screen well?


----------



## austrian001

I have set brightness to 5. Its enough for me in every Situation by now.


----------



## Simurgh

hm.. all updates are delayed as it stands. I was really hoping to get training plans on my Spartan Sport.


----------



## PTBC

If they hadn't admitted to the GPS bug my watch would have been going back after this weekend. Did my first ever 5k trail race and it was way off the track, it recorded 4.2km as the distance and the pace data was useless during the race, for analysis it's also useless even looking at laps with the distance so far off. I'd done a practice run last week on the same course and beat that time by 3.5minutes and hit my target time so I was definitely interested in comparing the 2 runs.
I did set it to running-race instead of trail running, but wouldn't expect that to make much difference, apart from going through the lake the finish was way off and on the wrong side of the river. It was synced an hour before the race, compass was calibrated and it was setup and waiting to start for 5 mins ahead of race start with circle filled in. It tracked me for the first 350m and after that was never really on track.









Altitude graph seems to show that it totally lost the plot with the long straight line


----------



## rdm01

PTBC said:


> If they hadn't admitted to the GPS bug my watch would have been going back after this weekend. Did my first ever 5k trail race and it was way off the track, it recorded 4.2km as the distance and the pace data was useless during the race, for analysis it's also useless even looking at laps with the distance so far off. I'd done a practice run last week on the same course and beat that time by 3.5minutes and hit my target time so I was definitely interested in comparing the 2 runs.
> I did set it to running-race instead of trail running, but wouldn't expect that to make much difference, apart from going through the lake the finish was way off and on the wrong side of the river. It was synced an hour before the race, compass was calibrated and it was setup and waiting to start for 5 mins ahead of race start with circle filled in. It tracked me for the first 350m and after that was never really on track.
> 
> View attachment 9716962
> 
> 
> Altitude graph seems to show that it totally lost the plot with the long straight line
> 
> View attachment 9717066


You got a faulty unit! Go for a replacement.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## johan6504

rdm01 said:


> You got a faulty unit! Go for a replacement.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Looks exactly like my tracks. My watch are in for replacement. Should be back next week...


----------



## PTBC

Had a reply from Suunto support about an earlier GPS performance complaint saying they had looked at the logs and the watch wasn't set to best, no mention of GPS bugs they were working on, maybe they will claim I'm not holding it properly next.

Pointed out that until recently you couldn't change the default so that meant I would have to have been changing it manually and that the only time I had ever done that was to change it to best for hiking/walking modes.

Also suggested they look at my latest move as I had defintely set that to best and it was the worst performance I'd seen from the watch


----------



## PTBC

johan6504 said:


> Looks exactly like my tracks. My watch are in for replacement. Should be back next week...


I had this track the week before so still hoping its a software issue







I've added it to my previous ticket about GPS performance, waiting to see what they say, but getting close to asking for a replacement point


----------



## JimmyKane

I have tested 5 SSU's all have offset/crap/bad gps. They need to either recall the units or they will be replacing units until they fix it. 
From all the moves I have scattered around the ones valid are the ones that DCRainmaker is using. 
That said. Good luck to us!


----------



## rdm01

JimmyKane said:


> I have tested 5 SSU's all have offset/crap/bad gps. They need to either recall the units or they will be replacing units until they fix it.
> From all the moves I have scattered around the ones valid are the ones that DCRainmaker is using.
> That said. Good luck to us!


I'm having also not bad ones. Actually pretty ones. I used to repeat the same route so it's not very difficult to see if something was wrong

http://www.movescount.com/moves/move128251538

deporteporvida.com


----------



## PTBC

OK totally confused, took the dog for a walk and let watch run in walk mode with GPS as good, wearing a jacket so it was covered at all times
Was curious to see how bad it would be, so was suprised when I saw it tracked me at least as good as some runs in the same area with running mode set to best GPS (actually it was better than some of the runs)
Looking at yesterdays bad track I noticed that even though I selected running-race it didn't set the move type to race which it is supposed to according to the description, wonder if some of the modes are messed up as I hadn't used that mode before.
Clearly there is something strange going on with GPS performance and starting to wonder if there's some sort of memory/resource leak that causes it to crap out as performance seems to get worse as it goes along then better after an update that resets and wipes it before getting worse again


----------



## PTBC

JimmyKane said:


> I have tested 5 SSU's all have offset/crap/bad gps. They need to either recall the units or they will be replacing units until they fix it.
> From all the moves I have scattered around the ones valid are the ones that DCRainmaker is using.
> That said. Good luck to us!


Maybe if I ran as fast as he did it would work
I'm reluctant to send it back as it seems if it is a bug I'm just starting off a merry go round and who knows what you are going to get back, could be worse than what I returned


----------



## dogrunner

Thanks for posting. I think until Suunto gives us more information about the GPS software problem they say they are looking into, it is hard to know if there is more than that going on. Anyone who says hardware and defect, especially when it recurs on the next unit but even if it does not, is still not resolving the confounded effects of software error and maybe possibly but who really knows hardware error. Sending it in just makes folks think they are doing something. I don't know, of course (nobody does).


----------



## Jaka83

If it's a hardware issue, Suunto will have to exchange our units, but if it can be fixed with a software update (which is my guess), then we will just have to be patient.


----------



## BobMiles

I don't think it's an hardware issue. I get both spot-on and totally off tracks with the same watch. Now as they wrote the identified a bug together with the chipset manufacturer, I have high hopes that it's gonna solve it.


----------



## Joaquinpe

I turned on my new Spartan ultra stealth and this screen appears, failed hardware?


http://imgur.com/C3v9j


----------



## edit0r

Joaquinpe said:


> I turned on my new Spartan ultra stealth and this screen appears, failed hardware?
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/C3v9j


If I were you I would ask for a replacement ASAP.
I would not trust the one you have right now even if you manage to fix it with a forced firmware update.


----------



## JimmyKane

Guys has anyone managed to get 18h as described in the settings and the product advertisement ?
I left 5 SSU over a day at clear sky, charged 100% to record without BLE HR. All of them ended up at 16h and some minutes.


----------



## BobMiles

Seems like the 26th update is delayed as well. Website now stating "end of October" instead.


----------



## Hecke

Quick question:
When the back light is in toggle mode, how (on earth) do you switch off the back light in the watch face mode? Upper/lower button leave the watch face, middle button toggles the additionally shown info, long press goes into settings/change watch face. Swiping/tapping has similar effects as the buttons.
I did not manage to turn off the backlight, so I went back to automatic mode. 
Help!


----------



## BobMiles

Hecke said:


> Quick question:
> When the back light is in toggle mode, how (on earth) do you switch off the back light in the watch face mode? Upper/lower button leave the watch face, middle button toggles the additionally shown info, long press goes into settings/change watch face. Swiping/tapping has similar effects as the buttons.
> I did not manage to turn off the backlight, so I went back to automatic mode.
> Help!


Tap with two fingers!


----------



## LONG_HAUL

BobMiles said:


> Tap with two fingers!


Hold on. If you are on toggle, first you need to unlock the screen. So: 1) press middle button, 2) two-finger tap.

I'm not happy with the way the backlight is handled anyway. And I think that is a consequence of the watch only having three buttons. It is better than Apple Watch. But worse than other watches with more buttons. Compromise?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> Guys has anyone managed to get 18h as described in the settings and the product advertisement ?
> I left 5 SSU over a day at clear sky, charged 100% to record without BLE HR. All of them ended up at 16h and some minutes.


Why do you own five Spartan Ultra? That would be a ton of money for a normal customer.


----------



## edit0r

LONG_HAUL said:


> Hold on. If you are on toggle, first you need to unlock the screen. So: 1) press middle button, 2) two-finger tap.
> 
> I'm not happy with the way the backlight is handled anyway. And I think that is a consequence of the watch only having three buttons. It is better than Apple Watch. But worse than other watches with more buttons. Compromise?


As i said a few months back... and I will insist on my idea, sorry for bothering.

Toggle is good when you don't need the light (lots of ambient light) OR you need to save the battery as much as possible so... It would have been great to have a timeout feature (lights off) so you would not have to remember to turn it off... or leave it by accident on (during daytime when you can't exactly see it), also is way more convenient in day to day watch operations.

Timeout options would have been something like : 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 1m, 3m, 5m, 10m,15m, 30m, 1h, 3h, 2 fingers turn on/off (manual).

My suggestion was...

When you have toggle mode activated and the timeout set to 8 seconds:
1. unlock the watch screen (middle button pushed once)
2. tap the screen with 2 fingers (light is on)
3 as long as you operate the watch with no pauses greater then 8 seconds light would not turn itself off.
4. if you pause operating the watch for some reason you can turn it on again with 2 fingers touching the screen IF the watch did not entered sleep mode (I think it takes around 30 seconds for that to happen) 
4. after you end operating the watch and those 8 seconds are up (from the last button push, screen touched)... light off... of course this might not work if you are standing in the rain... the raid drops will be interpreted by the watch like fingers touching the screen repeatedly.

If you like the idea guys maybe you can build on it and ask Suunto for a favor


----------



## edit0r

JimmyKane said:


> I left 5 SSU over a day at clear sky, charged 100% to record without BLE HR. All of them ended up at 16h and some minutes.


Can you please do us all a BIG favor... can you please charge all 5 Spartans to 100% battery and leave them idle for 24 hours and check how much the battery went down in these 24h on each watch?

I am extremely curious !

Thank you very much !


----------



## JimmyKane

They are RMA units. Benefits of ordering a watch that does not work as advertised and you can ask for a new one still having 14days to return the 'new' one


----------



## BobMiles

LONG_HAUL said:


> Hold on. If you are on toggle, first you need to unlock the screen. So: 1) press middle button, 2) two-finger tap.
> 
> I'm not happy with the way the backlight is handled anyway. And I think that is a consequence of the watch only having three buttons. It is better than Apple Watch. But worse than other watches with more buttons. Compromise?


I'm not happy with it either! I'm missing a hybrid option: Automatic light with every button press with timeout + being able to toggle steady light on/off with two fingers.


----------



## JimmyKane

edit0r said:


> Can you please do us all a BIG favor... can you please charge all 5 Spartans to 100% battery and leave them idle for 24 hours and check how much the battery went down in these 24h on each watch?
> 
> I am extremely curious !
> 
> Thank you very much !


Did that. Idle don't forget turns the screen off. 
Did this by the following test case, as I had issues after the update.

Prereq -> Latest update and discovery off

So here it goes.

Day one test:

1. Get all of them, charge them 100% and apply the latest update.
2. Let them on the desk for 3x8hours just after 8 hours pressing up so I can see the percentage.

Day one results:

After the first 8hours 4% droppage and after 16hours 8% drop, after 24hours 12% drop. Not good that means a 8 day battery life.

Knowing this, and having seen in the past units working ok did the following for the test:

Charge them 100% and put gps activity on nearby the window. Let them drain out. Result 16hours and a bit more minutes (varied on each watch)

Now to the final test as I did believe their battery was calibrated wrongly after the update.

Charge them from 0 to 100% and leave it an extra hour.

On the desk for 3x8hours

Results:

After 8hours 2%-3% drop, after 16hours 4%-5% drop after 24hours 6%-7% drop. But one moved directly the next minutes to 8% in my suprise (yes I used them afterwards to see if it would directly drop to see if indeed was a valid number)

That means that in 24hours the average was around 7% resulting in 14 and somethings days.

That said I need to mention again that the screen was off and no activity like steps was tracked. Don't know how they do the powermanagement but I hope they would last the same with screen on.

The shop that I bought them advertized 360hours of lifetime as watch thus 15 days. Close enough but not true. 
If you are in Europe within 6 months if the product does not work as advertised you can either have it repaired, swapped (takes time not RMA) or refund and that is the consumers choice.

I hope this covers enough for fears and expectations.

What I still do not like is the 16hour Best mode lifetime. 16hours is no go since even in the settings of the sport modes it states 18h!


----------



## JimmyKane

BobMiles said:


> I'm not happy with it either! I'm missing a hybrid option: Automatic light with every button press with timeout + being able to toggle steady light on/off with two fingers.


Exactely! I start to run at light so I do not need the toggle option. Night comes and I cannot set the toggle option thus fail.


----------



## BobMiles

JimmyKane said:


> Exactely! I start to run at light so I do not need the toggle option. Night comes and I cannot set the toggle option thus fail.


Same here! And with toggle mode, even the alarm clock won't trigger the light. Plus, in the move summary, the double tap does not work at all. 
But anyways, it'll be a long time until we see improvements in these low priority issues...


----------



## edit0r

JimmyKane said:


> After the first 8hours 4% droppage and after 16hours 8% drop, after 24hours 12% drop. Not good that means a 8 day battery life.


Thank you very much for the test !

These numbers were my numbers for the 2 Spartans that I had.

Unfortunately these were the numbers EVEN IF i let the watches discharge to 0 and get them back to 100% several times. (what you call calibration)

Funny thing about the battery meter, my Fenix 3 or V800 never needed any battery calibration after a firmware update.

Once again I blame the buggy firmware... and poor support.


----------



## JimmyKane

edit0r said:


> Thank you very much for the test !
> 
> These numbers were my numbers for the 2 Spartans that I had.
> 
> Unfortunately these were the numbers EVEN IF i let the watches discharge to 0 and get them back to 100% several times. (what you call calibration)
> 
> Funny thing about the battery meter, my Fenix 3 or V800 never needed any battery calibration after a firmware update.
> 
> Once again I blame the buggy firmware... and poor support.


Kept the one with the best bettery of those. Every day I go to sleep and try to check how much it consumes. It is ok I do think up to now. 
Yeah the clibration should not be needed that is true but not always. You see not all baterries are the same. Software calibrates them and stores this value in a non erasable place. 
I do believe the 1.2.4 update reseted that value. But I only can speculate.

That said, if I do notice any difference I ll report back. Personally for the 'idle' use I am ok with 14-15days but with the active use of 2 less hours that is cheating.

I have posted this exact results to a support ticket.

I have opened in total about 13 tickets in support and arround 10 questions on the Q-A on the site (Anonymus from Netherlands).

All of these tickets are gps related, battery related, sync related (like deleting a move in movescount does not get deleted on watch etc etc).

Another thing to add to the bug list for you guys to test and know is that cadence although it's ok all the times try to do an interval.... EPIC FAIL.

What happens is that the watch does not detect the sudden increase in cadance and drops it down until it picks up. 
I went to movescount and checked many activities also from other users to validate this and guess what. Ambits also have that.

Simle test:

Run at normal pace, get ready for a big speed change eg from 6m/km to 3m/km. The graph will drop the cadence for quite some seconds until it picks it up. Not something I would bother about, since cadence is not something that people can get a benefit from but nevertheless good to know that it also does not work good.


----------



## gousias

When you are measuring the battery duration, which of the functions are you turning off? And of course, why don't you prefer letting every function, such as automatic light, automatic discovery (Bluetooth), steps counter etc? I mean, isn't that the product is advertised for a specific duration? Does that include all functions off? Is this serious?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> They are RMA units. Benefits of ordering a watch that does not work as advertised and you can ask for a new one still having 14days to return the 'new' one


Are you considering tearing down one of them? I'm just curious because that seems very unusual to me. I don't think I could get that many simultaneously ongoing RMAs for the same product before simply being asked to return the merchandise. Is this at an actual store or online? I'm just curious even outside of the Spartan discussion as that could be handy for me in the future for other watches.


----------



## JimmyKane

gousias said:


> When you are measuring the battery duration, which of the functions are you turning off? And of course, why don't you prefer letting every function, such as automatic light, automatic discovery (Bluetooth), steps counter etc? I mean, isn't that the product is advertised for a specific duration? Does that include all functions off? Is this serious?


Only BLE discovery is off. That is because a bug in the not so well developed Android app etc could make this results biased.

Other than that you are correct. Did not wear all of them at the same time to go for work etc. From the one I kept though it is very close to wearing it and leaving it on a desk as far as battery consumption is concerned.


----------



## JimmyKane

LONG_HAUL said:


> Are you considering tearing down one of them? I'm just curious because that seems very unusual to me. I don't think I could get that many simultaneously ongoing RMAs for the same product before simply being asked to return the merchandise. Is this at an actual store or online? I'm just curious even outside of the Spartan discussion as that could be handy for me in the future for other watches.


I Would not damage hardware to waste money that needed environment resources to be build. It's like damaging a tree more or less. Against my ethics.

Since you can prove to the seller that a unit is faulty, you can have an RMA within 14days of your purchuse. Also you can just return it for no reason. That's an EU law! 
Got 5 in total. The 1st one RMA due to battery issues that I 'thought' it had. 
Got 4 at the same time, and for the 14day evaluation period I returned the 3 I did not like and money back.

If you are interested at the eshop, it's Coolblue.nl the BIGGEST in Netherlands and with beeing robots on these return polices. Robots is that they do not ask questions or bother the consumers. 
That's why they have a consumer satisfaction of 4.5/5


----------



## Zdenal

Hi All
did anyone suspected lagging when using the touch screen with the new 1.2.4 FW? My SSU seems to be sensitive only from the middle part of the touch screen, so I almost cannot switch between the Time->Exercise->Navigation etc....
In which part of the screen start your SSU being sensitive? I tired hard reset, nothing helped so far...strange

Thx


----------



## jeremy1271

JimmyKane said:


> I Would not damage hardware to waste money that needed environment resources to be build. It's like damaging a tree more or less. Against my ethics.
> 
> Since you can prove to the seller that a unit is faulty, you can have an RMA within 14days of your purchuse. Also you can just return it for no reason. That's an EU law!
> Got 5 in total. The 1st one RMA due to battery issues that I 'thought' it had.
> Got 4 at the same time, and for the 14day evaluation period I returned the 3 I did not like and money back.


The law says you don't even have to prove that a unit is faulty. You have 14 days, since the day it's delivered to ask for a RMA or a return to the seller. Nobody have to ask for a reason.


----------



## JimmyKane

jeremy1271 said:


> The law says you don't even have to prove that a unit is faulty. You have 14 days, since the day it's delivered to ask for a RMA or a return to the seller. Nobody have to ask for a reason.


Isn't this what I said? 
I had indeed the 1st replaced because of battery. Did not want to say don't like it give me a new one....


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> I Would not damage hardware to waste money that needed environment resources to be build. It's like damaging a tree more or less. Against my ethics.
> 
> Since you can prove to the seller that a unit is faulty, you can have an RMA within 14days of your purchuse. Also you can just return it for no reason. That's an EU law!
> Got 5 in total. The 1st one RMA due to battery issues that I 'thought' it had.
> Got 4 at the same time, and for the 14day evaluation period I returned the 3 I did not like and money back.
> 
> If you are interested at the eshop, it's Coolblue.nl the BIGGEST in Netherlands and with beeing robots on these return polices. Robots is that they do not ask questions or bother the consumers.
> That's why they have a consumer satisfaction of 4.5/5


Thanks for the info! They do seem like robots! Interesting. So, did you get five RMAs within 14 days after a single original purchase? Or did you actually purchase more than one Spartan?


----------



## JimmyKane

LONG_HAUL said:


> Thanks for the info! They do seem like robots! Interesting. So, did you get five RMAs within 14 days after a single original purchase? Or did you actually purchase more than one Spartan?


Purchased 4 and returned 3. 
I am very unlucky with electronics. I always find faults, so I have adopted this tacktick to get the best one.

When for example the Nexus phones were released some units had a yellow tint. To avoid this I got 3, found the one without the problem and returned for refund the other 2.

Rma is not refund. Rma is that when you get something new and eg does not work correctly they should replace it on the fly. Returning something for refund takes time to get money back.


----------



## JimmyKane

Zdenal said:


> Hi All
> did anyone suspected lagging when using the touch screen with the new 1.2.4 FW? My SSU seems to be sensitive only from the middle part of the touch screen, so I almost cannot switch between the Time->Exercise->Navigation etc....
> In which part of the screen start your SSU being sensitive? I tired hard reset, nothing helped so far...strange
> 
> Thx


Can we have a video? Mine works just fine if I touch the edge.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> Purchased 4 and returned 3.
> I am very unlucky with electronics.


Now I understand. It wasn't really making sense how you could have gotten so many RMAs so close to each other in time for a single product. You actually purchased four distinct Spartans!! So that set you back about €2.500! Sounds like you are indeed pretty serious about getting a working unit and, as you said, you are normally very unlucky. Thanks for the info. I hope you get what you are looking for. If the Spartan fails to deliver what a multi-sport watch should deliver, I have made peace with he idea of leaving the Polar-Suunto-Garmin "axis of evil" and join the dark side (Apple). I have had enough trouble in the past five years. Suunto needs to address the BLE sensors/GPS issues or the whole ecosystem is undercut by crappy workout data input.


----------



## JimmyKane

LONG_HAUL said:


> Now I understand. It wasn't really making sense how you could have gotten so many RMAs so close to each other in time for a single product. You actually purchased four distinct Spartans!! So that set you back about €2.500! Sounds like you are indeed pretty serious about getting a working unit and, as you said, you are normally very unlucky. Thanks for the info. I hope you get what you are looking for. If the Spartan fails to deliver what a multi-sport watch should deliver, I have made peace with he idea of leaving the Polar-Suunto-Garmin "axis of evil" and join the dark side (Apple). I have had enough trouble in the past five years. Suunto needs to address the BLE sensors/GPS issues or the whole ecosystem is undercut by crappy workout data input.


Correct! Although these money are back and the final cut was 700e that I feel confident it had the correct hardware. 
Apple watch for me is a no go due to battery. 
Ive been a fan of Polar so long and it's products where just fine. I did not even get into the support or bug finding issues. I was used to my m400 of 90e that was solid as F%%%.


----------



## Zdenal

JimmyKane said:


> Can we have a video? Mine works just fine if I touch the edge.


hmm, not sure I know how - I tried to "Insert video" but it ask me only for the http links...


----------



## edit0r

JimmyKane said:


> Correct! Although these money are back and the final cut was 700e that I feel confident it had the correct hardware.
> Apple watch for me is a no go due to battery.
> Ive been a fan of Polar so long and it's products where just fine. I did not even get into the support or bug finding issues. I was used to my m400 of 90e that was solid as F%%%.


700 is way better then 800 that I paid as an early adopter....
Like I said before... it's one thing to pay 800 euro like I did as an early adopter and deal with all the frustrations of an buggy unfinished product and it's another thing to wait for 6mo to 1 year and buy the full featured, rock stable firmware Spartan for 500-600 euro.


----------



## Zdenal

JimmyKane said:


> Can we have a video? Mine works just fine if I touch the edge.


Here we go...


----------



## edit0r

JimmyKane said:


> Kept the one with the best bettery of those. Every day I go to sleep and try to check how much it consumes. It is ok I do think up to now.
> Yeah the clibration should not be needed that is true but not always. You see not all baterries are the same. Software calibrates them and stores this value in a non erasable place.
> I do believe the 1.2.4 update reseted that value. But I only can speculate.
> 
> That said, if I do notice any difference I ll report back. Personally for the 'idle' use I am ok with 14-15days but with the active use of 2 less hours that is cheating.


I admit that I was spoiled with the battery life of the Polar V800 that in watch mode lasts more then a month... Then I got the Fenix 3 HR that in watch mode with the 24h HR monitoring lasts around 3 weeks.. if I turn the 24h HR monitoring off it would probably last for a month in watch mode (never actually did that test).
For me the Spartan lasted around 11-12 days in watch mode... it was a bit of a downgrade, I had expected a lot more from the watch. Maybe my units were indeed with hardware problems... ah... it does it matter now...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> Apple watch for me is a no go due to battery
> .


I will take the plunge and invest on the ecosystem as I wait for the series 3. Can't take this Polar/Suunto/Garmin mindset in which adding more features while fundamental issues linger is just the way they all roll. And we are welcome to suck it up and get over it, getting treated by support like idiots, or return the watch. I will not feed money into that circle anymore if this Spartan watch fails. The series 2 costs half the price of a Spartan. I think I can handle the limitations if what they list in the specs actually works.


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> I will take the plunge and invest on the ecosystem as I wait for the series 3. Can't take this Polar/Suunto/Garmin mindset in which adding more features while fundamental issues linger is just the way they all roll. And we are welcome to suck it up and get over it, getting treated by support like idiots, or return the watch. I will not feed money into that circle anymore if this Spartan watch fails. The series 2 costs half the price of a Spartan. I think I can handle the limitations if what they list in the specs actually works.


My wife has an Apple watch and loves it, thanks to the adverts for series 2 she's more than once pointed out why didn't I just wait and get one of those as it's cheaper than the Spartan and I can take music etc., somedays I wonder if she isn't right, not that I'd tell her that


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> My wife has an Apple watch and loves it, thanks to the adverts for series 2 she's more than once pointed out why didn't I just wait and get one of those as it's cheaper than the Spartan and I can take music etc., somedays I wonder if she isn't right, not that I'd tell her that


You don't have to tell her she is right. Just tell her that we all accepted the terms of an beautiful upgrade schedule like little ducks. And that at the time it seemed reasonable because of the challenges it entailed but we didn't read the fine printing. The fine printing says that bug fixing updates are constrained to the upgrade schedule. And that once the upgrade schedule got delayed, so did the bug fixing schedule. Which would be fine on a watch that worked more than 50% of the time and had a properly set up customer support. Not the case here. We are idiots. This thing is going to take for f'ing ever.


----------



## rdm01

Zdenal said:


> Here we go...


Something wrong there. Contact Suunto support for a replacement 

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Pirk

I see DC Rainmaker has the Spartan Ultra review up next from the comments on this site: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/10/5-random-things-i-did-this-weekend-32.html

Quote:

DC Rainmaker
October 24, 2016
I'm also cooking through a bunch of units that I want to get reviews out for:

Suunto Spartan Ultra (next)
Garmin FR35 (after that)
Fitbit Charge 2 (following FR35)
TomTom Spark 3
Apple Watch Series 2
TomTom Touch band
Pebble 2 HR

Those are sort of the priority on the wearables side. There are of course other non-wearables/devices that are also in the queue too.

Unquote

I think this will be very interesting and defining of the sales success (or fail) for the Spartan.


----------



## tinu80

I was also thinking about the new Samsung S3. Cool thing would be the map functionalities and the fact that you don't have to wait for samsung to put sports capabilities right, just look for an app of your choice... But then, battery life in GPS is probably only few hours? And it isn't completely waterproof... So probably not the right thing for me.


----------



## Hecke

BobMiles said:


> Tap with two fingers!


thanks a bunch!


----------



## JimmyKane

Pirk said:


> I see DC Rainmaker has the Spartan Ultra review up next from the comments on this site: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/10/5-random-things-i-did-this-weekend-32.html
> 
> Quote:
> 
> DC Rainmaker
> October 24, 2016
> I'm also cooking through a bunch of units that I want to get reviews out for:
> 
> Suunto Spartan Ultra (next)
> Garmin FR35 (after that)
> Fitbit Charge 2 (following FR35)
> TomTom Spark 3
> Apple Watch Series 2
> TomTom Touch band
> Pebble 2 HR
> 
> Those are sort of the priority on the wearables side. There are of course other non-wearables/devices that are also in the queue too.
> 
> Unquote
> 
> I think this will be very interesting and defining of the sales success (or fail) for the Spartan.


The review will be out tomorrow


----------



## JimmyKane

Just to add this, today more than 12 hours of wearing SSU 3% battery drop! from 32% last night at 11pm to now (11:56). That is good!


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> You don't have to tell her she is right. Just tell her that we all accepted the terms of an beautiful upgrade schedule like little ducks. And that at the time it seemed reasonable because of the challenges it entailed but we didn't read the fine printing. The fine printing says that bug fixing updates are constrained to the upgrade schedule. And that once the upgrade schedule got delayed, so did the bug fixing schedule. Which would be fine on a watch that worked more than 50% of the time and had a properly set up customer support. Not the case here. We are idiots. This thing is going to take for f'ing ever.


You seem to have seen the light, the same one some of us saw a while ago. The above post was spot on by the way 

I'm going to try for a refund and go the Apple Watch route too I think.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JimmyKane

Guys sorry to day this, but if the apple watch fits you why the hell would you buy the spartan? 
Spartan was or is supposed to be a performance watch. For hiking, routes, intervals, swimming, connect with BLE equipment, run ultra marathons and so on.
All these features are not existing on the Apple watch. Not to mention battery life. 

So just asking here: Why if you consider having the apple watch did you go for a performance watch? Looks ?


----------



## Pegasus

JimmyKane said:


> Guys sorry to day this, but if the apple watch fits you why the hell would you buy the spartan?
> Spartan was or is supposed to be a performance watch. For hiking, routes, intervals, swimming, connect with BLE equipment, run ultra marathons and so on.
> All these features are not existing on the Apple watch. Not to mention battery life.
> 
> So just asking here: Why if you consider having the apple watch did you go for a performance watch? Looks ?


I need to have a better look at its capabilities, I was put off initially as it seems every other person has one, I think the Spartan problems have just made me reassess what I need in a watch.

I'm guessing the Apple Watch with its apps will evolve very quickly and the capabilities increase.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JimmyKane

Pegasus said:


> I need to have a better look at its capabilities, I was put off initially as it seems every other person has one, I think the Spartan problems have just made me reassess what I need in a watch.
> 
> I'm guessing the Apple Watch with its apps will evolve very quickly and the capabilities increase.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes that might happen as new apps go out but I dont thing the hardware capabilities will change. You will still get stuck with just a few hours of battery life with GPS on , charging it every other day and so on. If that is the case I need to tell you that definately the spartan is not for you.


----------



## Pegasus

JimmyKane said:


> Yes that might happen as new apps go out but I dont thing the hardware capabilities will change. You will still get stuck with just a few hours of battery life with GPS on , charging it every other day and so on. If that is the case I need to tell you that definately the spartan is not for you.


The battery life is the main issue, if as you say GPS is a few hours then I guess I will have to look elsewhere.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> I'm going to try for a refund and go the Apple Watch route too I think.


Just consider this, no single forum, review or blog can directly influence sales of the Apple Watch Series 2. It is selling like crazy and it will keep selling through the holidays. And so will the Series 3 next year. Why wait to join the party?

Nota bene: I did not "see the light" since there was nothing indicating a larger scale issue prior to the firmware upgrade delay. That delay is what turned a progressive and upbeat development into a customer's worst nightmare. Now I don't get bug fixes on my recently purchased $800 watch simply because Suunto can't keep up with an aggressive rollout of new functionality. That is not something any of you had mentioned or predicted. You didn't see any light since there was nothing to be seen. Given the failure to consistently deliver meaningful bug fixes, and considering the present number of issues related to data collection (from GPS and BLE sensors in general), combined with a catatonic customer support, the prognostic is grim. And that is not only for Suunto. Look around and you will see the same disastrous scenarios (with small variations on the same theme).


----------



## Hecke

Pegasus said:


> The battery life is the main issue, if as you say GPS is a few hours then I guess I will have to look elsewhere.


According to Apple it is 5h using GPS. So, a marathon should be feasible, even if the real world battery life is as always a bit less. 
A hundred miler, or only a fifty? :-(


----------



## JimmyKane

Hecke said:


> According to Apple it is 5h using GPS. So, a marathon should be feasible, even if the real world battery life is as always a bit less.
> A hundred miler, or only a fifty? :-(


Try these 5 hours with display on, ble sensors etc. Yes a marathon is ok, yes training every day 2 hours and charging it is ok. Get a m400 it's also ok. Then get the apple watch and go for a hike. Nope. Got to run a mountain marathon to track vertical speen and elevation profile. Nope. Go to run an Ultra. Nope. Go to do a bike ride for 1 hour then, run 2 hours then get back with 1 hour biking. Nope. As said before if you are a person that trains 1-2 hours per day and his activiies will never surpass 4hours (to make it fair) then go for the apple watch and what are you doing buying the spartan?


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## ascender

I was bought an Apple Watch for my birthday just after they were released and the updates to the software since then have made a big difference. With the ability to swap straps so quickly, I started using it as my day to day watch for tracking runs as I would just swap the strap out when I got to work etc and generally I always ran or biked with my phone anyway. I still used my Ambit for long hill runs (and ultras) due to the battery life and functionality.

I thought about upgrading to the new Apple Watch but went for a Spartan Ultra instead. Battery life on the new Apple Watch is still a concern, but some of the new features are really good and I suspect if I wasn't in to hill running and ultras, I'd actually upgrade quite happily and not consider a dedicated GPS watch, especially as they've added support for swim sessions now. I still wear my Apple Watch every day as I've got used to a lot of the functionality and features which I now take for granted.

However, some of these things on the Apple Watch like the user interface, the screen brightness & resolution, the way it handles notifications and the responsiveness of the touch-screen are now a benchmark for other watches, whether subconsciously or otherwise. And that's where something like the Spartan comes up way short in this day and age of smartwatches. So that has coloured my opinion of the Ultra so far, even though I know its early days and it is fundamentally a different sort of watch from the Apple Watch.

I'm really interested to see where Suunto go with it, but at the moment it doesn't feel like they know exactly what they want the watch to be and that is maybe why we're seeing basic functionality missing or not working because they've been trying to fit so much in to the day one product? And why the software seems laggy and a bit half-baked. Its as if the team hasn't been looking at what the other "competitors" have been doing well, other than having a list of features they need to match.

After ordering the stealth version, I saw the new one with the copper styling and thought it looks really good. I could see that being a watch I use all day every day as it looks smart enough for most occasions. But then when you look at the low-res analogue watchfaces you could have, to my eyes, it just makes it look really cheap.

This is all a bit scattershot in terms of thoughts, but I've been underwhelmed by the Spartan so far and am not entirely sure why. Maybe I am just unfairly judging it against other watches, but I do just wonder who is going to buy this watch at this point in time, at this price point, over the other main competitors out there.


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## ascender

I meant to ask, the route profile features of the Ambit Vertical - are they coming to the Spartan at some point?


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## JimmyKane

ascender said:


> I meant to ask, the route profile features of the Ambit Vertical - are they coming to the Spartan at some point?


Supposinglyyes


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## ascender

Just realised I can't edit a message.... The other thing on the UI point was about the move to three buttons. Was that done because of less physical space available in the watch? It seems like an odd thing to drop in a watch designed for the Spartan's target market where we all know touch screens aren't great in extremes of weather and the previous 5 button implementation was very intuitive. Just seems like another change which wasn't fully thought out or was made for cosmetic reasons?


----------



## Pegasus

JimmyKane said:


> Try these 5 hours with display on, ble sensors etc. Yes a marathon is ok, yes training every day 2 hours and charging it is ok. Get a m400 it's also ok. Then get the apple watch and go for a hike. Nope. Got to run a mountain marathon to track vertical speen and elevation profile. Nope. Go to run an Ultra. Nope. Go to do a bike ride for 1 hour then, run 2 hours then get back with 1 hour biking. Nope. As said before if you are a person that trains 1-2 hours per day and his activiies will never surpass 4hours (to make it fair) then go for the apple watch and what are you doing buying the spartan?


The Spartan is not exclusively for ultra athletes as you seem to say, you can still enjoy the functionality even if you are running around the local park. If it did what it said it was going to do it would be ideal and in my opinion looks better than the square Apple Watch. But it lacks so much functionality right now and is buggy, no count down timer, can't see notifications after they have disappeared from the screen to name some basic things, not to mention the glaring problems.

They seem confused as to what they are trying to achieve with the watch as someone else said.

I bought the Spartan because I'm a fan of the watch brand, I have a Vector and had a traverse and an ambit 3 peak, my loyalty is wavering badly now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JimmyKane

Pegasus said:


> The Spartan is not exclusively for ultra athletes as you seem to say, you can still enjoy the functionality even if you are running around the local park. If it did what it said it was going to do it would be ideal and in my opinion looks better than the square Apple Watch. But it lacks so much functionality right now and is buggy, no count down timer, can't see notifications after they have disappeared from the screen to name some basic things, not to mention the glaring problems.
> 
> They seem confused as to what they are trying to achieve with the watch as someone else said.
> 
> I bought the Spartan because I'm a fan of the watch brand, I have a Vector and had a traverse and an ambit 3 peak, my loyalty is wavering badly now.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Correct and I totaly understand you and the others


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## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> As said before if you are a person that trains 1-2 hours per day and his activiies will never surpass 4hours (to make it fair) then go for the apple watch and what are you doing buying the spartan?


To be fair, for the price of one Spartan we can get TWO Apple Watches Series 2. So you should compare the battery life of one Spartan to the battery life of two AW2. The question now is this: what is the battery life of two AW2?

The answer to that question depends a bit on the specifics of the activity. If you can fully charge one while the other one is on your wrist, then it is infinite for all practical purposes. If you can only charge both at the beginning and then use them until you got no more juice, then it is just twice the battery life of one AW2. Either way, (and in every way in between), comparing battery lives directly would only be granted if prices were similar. And for the use cases where it really matters significantly that you can only carry one watch, you got such a tiny fraction of the market that you are barely going to be able to feed a handful of engineers with the profit of selling that.


----------



## Hecke

JimmyKane said:


> since cadence is not something that people can get a benefit from


I have to strongly object here. Cadence is one of the most crucial things to get right in order to run fast and healthy.
See e.g. Jonathan's wiki: Running Cadence - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


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## JimmyKane

Hecke said:


> I have to strongly object here. Cadence is one of the most crucial things to get right in order to run fast and healthy.
> See e.g. Jonathan's wiki: Running Cadence - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


Nice read did not know that. At least my coach never takes cadence into account. Probably for trail running that is not an issue, since rocks etc do not provide a tru meter of reference. Again thanks for the article


----------



## JimmyKane

LONG_HAUL said:


> To be fair, for the price of one Spartan we can get TWO Apple Watches Series 2. So you should compare the battery life of one Spartan to the battery life of two AW2. The question now is this: what is the battery life of two AW2?
> 
> The answer to that question depends a bit on the specifics of the activity. If you can fully charge one while the other one is on your wrist, then it is infinite for all practical purposes. If you can only charge both at the beginning and then use them until you got no more juice, then it is just twice the battery life of one AW2. Either way, (and in every way in between), comparing battery lives directly would only be granted if prices were similar. And for the use cases where it really matters significantly that you can only carry one watch, you got such a tiny fraction of the market that you are barely going to be able to feed a handful of engineers with the profit of selling that.


Are you kidding me ? Compare 2 for one regarding the money ? Yeah in the same sense get 8 polar M400 or 2 v800. What users need is less equipment and more trusty. If you are serius about sporting. If not I completely undertand. I cannot imagine my self running UTMB and carrying 2 watches in my bag, switching them arround etc. I am an athlete not a nerdy hiker. I want to hassle less with my equipment and have less worries. If you like next hike you do get your 2 apple phones, uprair, repair sensors, start new activity and them find a tool to merge them. Yes that can be a case. But this never ever ever will apply to me , poeple who finish ultras, and people who want a performance watch. That said I whish the apple watch can get there. I have no fetish with Suunto and I am writing here because its my first try with them.


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## ifarlow

Hecke said:


> According to Apple it is 5h using GPS. So, a marathon should be feasible, even if the real world battery life is as always a bit less.
> A hundred miler, or only a fifty? :-(


More correctly: the Apple Watch Series 2 can last 5 hours with its _internal_ GPS running. It can last much, much longer than that when using the GPS in the iPhone, which is how it works by default. It only uses its internal GPS when it can't find the iPhone.


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## Pirk

Its up: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/10/suunto-spartan-ultra-review.html

And it does not look good.



> ll be honest, I don't get it.
> Not so much the watch actually, but rather, how Suunto got themselves into this pickle. Someone at the company must have pushed for this watch to ship by a given timetable, hell or high water. And unfortunately, it ended up being hellish high water.
> Simply put: The watch should have never shipped in this state. Not back in August, not now, and probably not even in January or March 2017.
> I had hoped that by late September, which was Suunto's first major software update for the Spartan Ultra, that they'd have 'caught up'. But now we sit here in late October, and the update content has dwindled, and key updates pushed further. If we look at their published schedule, it's all about catch-up. Virtually every single feature listed is about 'catching up' to their own watch from two plus years ago. Heck, their own watch from 4 years ago with the original Ambit.
> By every objective measure, this watch has less features than every watch Suunto has ever made in the segment, yet costs more. It also works more poorly than every multisport watch they've ever made.
> As I said, I don't get it.
> Suunto has always prided itself on delivering stable and reliable releases for years. Even when they were behind the curve on features, you could at least count on it being a solid and reliable device. Accurate, versatile, and customizable. But it's no longer possible to say that. Undoubtedly by the time Suunto releases all the planned updates, competitors will be not one, but two or three steps ahead.


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## Pirk

duplicate


----------



## johan6504

Pirk said:


> Its up: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/10/suunto-spartan-ultra-review.html
> 
> And it does not look good.


Rays verdict is brutal. I feel empty and massively cheated by Suunto :-(


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## austrian001

clear words - but the truth :-(


----------



## Hecke

JimmyKane said:


> Nice read did not know that. At least my coach never takes cadence into account. Probably for trail running that is not an issue, since rocks etc do not provide a tru meter of reference. Again thanks for the article


All of the wiki is worth the read. Jonathan is the super-nerd of running. And he made it from overweight coder to the US 24h team by eating apples. I really worship this guy.

As for cadence: I think it is important to keep cadence up, no matter where you run. But maybe you already have a high cadence and good running form that your feet land under your center of gravity and so on. So your coach will point you to other aspects. 
I was the prototype of lacing my old sports boots (I think those were some womens Asics I got on sale and they somehow fitted) and began to hobble my belly away. No idea about running at all. I definitely made all the classical mistakes like overstriding, long steps, crushing my knees with every stride. At some point the running became easier (as I became lighter) and eventually became fun. Only I started to develop the usual niggles that keep most part time runners on the couch. Upping my cadence broke that cycle and opened the path towards 200 mile months, ultras and so on. Important and life-changing advice!


----------



## Pegasus

Pirk said:


> Its up: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/10/suunto-spartan-ultra-review.html
> 
> And it does not look good.


I can't really disagree with the review, I'm massively disappointed and it's debatable as to whether Suunto can recover from this whole Spartan nightmare.

I hope I'm completely wrong and we get a huge update that solves everything but I'm not holding my breath.

My watch was not bought direct from Suunto but do we have legitimate reason to suggest it's not fit for purpose and request a refund from them? Just wondering.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ifarlow

Pegasus said:


> I hope I'm completely wrong and we get a huge update that solves everything but I'm not holding my breath.


Unfortunately, Suunto themselves have admitted that there are issues they are having difficulty dealing with and have had to push updates off into the future, so I wouldn't expect (1) a huge update that solves everything, and (2) anything to happen any time soon. Ray was right: the Spartan Ultra should not have been released in its current state (either then or now). It's really as simple as that, unfortunately. In their push to get the device out the door they might have done significant damage to their brand.

Worse: Suunto recently posted to Twitter that they are still on track to release the Sport with Optical HR by Christmas. I can't help but feel that Suunto is underestimating the train wreck that has been the Spartan Ultra release, and I wonder if the Sport HR will suffer the same fate.

On a side note, has anyone noticed that REI hasn't yet picked up the Spartan Sport even though it is out and they carry the Ultra? Unfortunate coincidence, or is REI avoiding the Spartan Sport in light of the issues with the Ultra?


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## ascender

I'm going to send mine back and get another Ambit3 Peak.... Disappointed in so many ways and I'm glad I found this forum, the views on here and the DCRainmaker review have at least assured me that its "not just me".


----------



## dogrunner

johan6504 said:


> Rays verdict is brutal. I feel empty and massively cheated by Suunto :-(


Ray calls them like he sees them, and what he sees on his unit and trials is completely consistent with the extensive reporting here. I actually still hope Suunto gets their act together and produces a product that lives up to what they promised in this device, but I'm sticking to my A2 until I see definite evidence they have done so. I sympathize with everyone who already made the commitment and hope for the best. Suunto REALLY needs to come through or serious athletes/users will never take them seriously again.


----------



## Jaka83

dogrunner said:


> Ray calls them like he sees them, and what he sees on his unit and trials is completely consistent with the extensive reporting here. I actually still hope Suunto gets their act together and produces a product that lives up to what they promised in this device, but I'm sticking to my A2 until I see definite evidence they have done so. I sympathize with everyone who already made the commitment and hope for the best. Suunto REALLY needs to come through *or serious athletes/users will never take them seriously again*.


I think that train has already left the station - at least for the Spartan.

I'm not that serious of an athlete and am still hoping for the best holding on to my Spartan. As far as hiking and cycling goes, it does the job, although displaying less data in real time than my Ambit1 did. I'm a bit pissed at Suunto and feel their pressure at the same time. As Ray wrote ... I don't get it either - how can they push it to the market in a state like this - the people responsible should just leave the market and go herd sheep or something as they are clearly not fit for this job. :-|


----------



## PTBC

Right now Suunto has a major issue with their product and I (and I assume others) are stuck in a position of wondering does it work or not, is it software or hardware. We are in a position where we can't really evaluate our purchase, that being the case Suunto potentially faces a lot of returns as they would have a hard time defending the Spartan, for example UK 'fitness for purposes' legislation could apply, which is financial impact not just reputation.

It takes a lifetime to maintain a good reputation, a second to ruin it

I'm not planning to buy an Apple watch (if nothing else I'm a little OCD about square vs round watches), even though for me it would likely be more than adequate, but if the GPS fix doesn't appear in the next month and if that doesn't improve performance considerably then I may tryto return it once for a replacement in case it's hardware (hard to tell right now) and if that doesn't improve then I don't see what choice I will have but to reluctantly move on.


----------



## Zdenal

rdm01 said:


> Something wrong there. Contact Suunto support for a replacement
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Guys
I am fed up with SSU...today I get the replacement from the shop as also Suunto Support found the display faulty...
............The new watch doesnt work the BackLight - even I set it to Automatic/Toggle it doesnt work....tried factory reset, 12sec.reset...nothing (and i am not stupid, the previous watch was working - at least with BackLight)......
I am done - 2nd defective watch in 2 days...I request my money back.

Take care and good luck with SSU ......


----------



## PTBC

dogrunner said:


> Ray calls them like he sees them, and what he sees on his unit and trials is completely consistent with the extensive reporting here. I actually still hope Suunto gets their act together and produces a product that lives up to what they promised in this device, but I'm sticking to my A2 until I see definite evidence they have done so. I sympathize with everyone who already made the commitment and hope for the best. Suunto REALLY needs to come through or serious athletes/users will never take them seriously again.


I thought he was harsh, but fair, could have been a lot more brutal

Looking at though he does seem to have had one of the 'better' performing watches compared to some of the results reported here and that I've seen


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

My latest, Venice Marathon. SSU 42.46km, A3P 42.49km, 1k laps w|in 0-80m of each other. Track comparison on https://goo.gl/8qXVpQ

There's one point that's really wrong, but that was right after coming out of a 300m-or-so long tunnel, some imperfections, but nothing I'd consider too serious. The tracks being longer than marathon distance is even less of a problem than often as I had to, uhm, head into the bushes twice (and I can find where on the tracks...). Upcoming firmware, though, not the current.

Funny, I'm having a deja-vu with the talk about Suunto's brand value. A1 to A2. Slightly less, A2 to A3. Now A3 to Spartan (if we should really call it that, making it sound like a transition). Do wish they'd learn more/better, though. But then again, my phone's currently without its (e.g. orientation) sensors, "update is on its way... sometime soon". Seems to be nearly SOP already...


----------



## Jaka83

I was about to ask you if that was with the "test FW" but you made it clear in the second paragraph.

Are you allowed to talk about the changes in the new FW? What's new?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Congrats on the marathon. Likewise, I would be curious to learn if Suunto will be releasing bug fix firmware updates independently from the planned upgrade schedule. There are a lot of bugs that would need addressing at a much faster pace than the trickle down of new functionality. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JimmyKane

Pegasus said:


> I can't really disagree with the review, I'm massively disappointed and it's debatable as to whether Suunto can recover from this whole Spartan nightmare.
> 
> I hope I'm completely wrong and we get a huge update that solves everything but I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> My watch was not bought direct from Suunto but do we have legitimate reason to suggest it's not fit for purpose and request a refund from them? Just wondering.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


hope so as well if new updates dont fix things


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Jaka83 said:


> I was about to ask you if that was with the "test FW" but you made it clear in the second paragraph.
> 
> Are you allowed to talk about the changes in the new FW? What's new?


You only need to look into the upgrade schedule to get an idea of what's being introduced and tested, by and by. (Yes, this is also me being evasive, but only a little.)

Re. Long_Haul's q: Suunto tends to release bigger updates, not smaller bug fixes. With Ambit's, we've already seen that (with a few exceptions when a bigger upgrade broke something and it was found and solved right in the time when the update went public - then, there were immediate small bug fixes). Might be good if they went the Garmin way of constant small fixes to make people feel there's progress, but not as long as software updates wipe the memory...

Favorite quote from the Venice Marathon: Spaniard sitting next to me getting changed afterwards, asking "How many watches do you need to run?" (and there it was only the two...)


----------



## JimmyKane

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> You only need to look into the upgrade schedule to get an idea of what's being introduced and tested, by and by. (Yes, this is also me being evasive, but only a little.)
> 
> Re. Long_Haul's q: Suunto tends to release bigger updates, not smaller bug fixes. With Ambit's, we've already seen that (with a few exceptions when a bigger upgrade broke something and it was found and solved right in the time when the update went public - then, there were immediate small bug fixes). Might be good if they went the Garmin way of constant small fixes to make people feel there's progress, but not as long as software updates wipe the memory...
> 
> Favorite quote from the Venice Marathon: Spaniard sitting next to me getting changed afterwards, asking "How many watches do you need to run?" (and there it was only the two...)


Nice quote.Yeah indeed smaller updates eg gps fix


----------



## ascender

The three button UI is taking some getting used to, I guess that would come over time, but it was confusing trying to get to the info I wanted on a run tonight. When does a long press go in to screen a or when does it take you back a screen.

Heart rate monitoring was sporadic tonight, kept dropping out.

In better news, the Spartan randomly paired with my iPhone last night! But stopped working tonight.


----------



## PTBC

JimmyKane said:


> Nice quote.Yeah indeed smaller updates eg gps fix


Typically speaking you want to roll up bug fixes, test and make sure they don't conflict (or create more bugs), so you would aim to bundle or have release schedules (e.g. patch tuesday for Microsoft) and monthly would be reasonable in most cases. Release management is a subject all on it's own, without getting into change management practices in general.

The exception would be critical bugs (GPS would be a good example, also major security flaws) which will be released out of schedule and pushed out as soon as possible rather than wait for the next scheduled release.

So in terms of development practices they aren't behaving unreasonably though Suunto really do need to work on communication, despite multiple tickets for GPS issues I've never had official notice of the GPS bug, really they need seem to need someone in the service area that understands problem management and communication as right now it's a mess. It seems that the last few days looking at postings there's been a mood change (could just be me) and a people are closer to the point of giving up with Suunto and less likely to give them the benefit of the doubt, that is down to their poor management of the situation.

When the full update schedule was first announced some concern was expressed that it was aggressive, but Suunto had a reputation for delivering so were given the benefit of the doubt, I can't see that happening again


----------



## bryanredneck27

PTBC said:


> Typically speaking you want to roll up bug fixes, test and make sure they don't conflict (or create more bugs), so you would aim to bundle or have release schedules (e.g. patch tuesday for Microsoft) and monthly would be reasonable in most cases. Release management is a subject all on it's own, without getting into change management practices in general.
> 
> The exception would be critical bugs (GPS would be a good example, also major security flaws) which will be released out of schedule and pushed out as soon as possible rather than wait for the next scheduled release.
> 
> So in terms of development practices they aren't behaving unreasonably though Suunto really do need to work on communication, despite multiple tickets for GPS issues I've never had official notice of the GPS bug, really they need seem to need someone in the service area that understands problem management and communication as right now it's a mess. It seems that the last few days looking at postings there's been a mood change (could just be me) and a people are closer to the point of giving up with Suunto and less likely to give them the benefit of the doubt, that is down to their poor management of the situation.
> 
> When the full update schedule was first announced some concern was expressed that it was aggressive, but Suunto had a reputation for delivering so were given the benefit of the doubt, I can't see that happening again


does any of you guys know&#8230; if we can return the watch to suunto for a full-refund if bought in europe through their web (invoice and all) for actually false advertising&#8230; I feel cheated and quiet frustrated with the whole thing&#8230;.


----------



## PTBC

bryanredneck27 said:


> does any of you guys know&#8230; if we can return the watch to suunto for a full-refund if bought in europe through their web (invoice and all) for actually false advertising&#8230; I feel cheated and quiet frustrated with the whole thing&#8230;.


IANAL

I'm not sure about false advertising and how that works, I know the UK sales of goods act has fitness for purpose clause, so would assume something similar exists in other parts of Europe, at the moment there's a case to be made for fit for purpose as it currently stands (just quote DC Rainmakers review!).
I'm not a lawyer, but in general terms there is possibly a case to be made that the bugs mean the watch could not be properly evaluated in the return/warranty period and so you consider it a conditional sale and as such are returning it or something along those lines depending on local laws. Similar to false advertising you could claim that the watch is not fit for purpose as their website described it (so their advertising forms part of the contractual condition) and that they have not fulfilled the contract by providing a usable product, if they refused that would mean going to a small claims court to get your money back though which could be a pain. There could be some issues about having to accept a replacement offered, but even then doing so and then returning a couple would mean you have acted in good faith in trying to meet the contract and at some point they are in breach.
I bought my watch from the UK webstore so in the last ticket I sent about GPS issues I made sure I included 'fit for purpose' in the text to make a point and if I did go down that route I had correspondence as evidence. Typically in these cases what you are really doing is looking for some legislation or wording that lets them know you are serious and hoping their policy is just to sort it out rather than be awkward.
Not sure where you would stand on a chargeback to a credit card purchase, usually you have to demonstrate non-delivery and refusal to refund, so would need to return it, refuse a replacement and have something from them saying they won't give a refund. As an option, if possible, it's usually the case that a vendor will be much more accommodating of a credit card company than dealing with you.


----------



## Joaquinpe

http://imgur.com/wtL7Z

it is normal that the application dial a different serial number which is engraved watch ??


----------



## edit0r

johan6504 said:


> Rays verdict is brutal. I feel empty and massively cheated by Suunto :-(


THANK YOU DCRAINMAKER for confirming the state of the watch.

Many did not like me criticizing the watch, especially when I looked at the watch through it's big price tag but I am glad that can see it now by reading your review, review that was written 4 months after the watch launched.

Not only that the watch was/is expensive and they launched it in a very basic state.. but they don't seem to realize how embasiring is to ask so much money and move so slow in fixing it.

Yes, they might fix but it's one thing to do it in 6 months and it's another to do it in 18 months.

Yes, I can't call myself a Suunto fan, it was my first Suunto watch, I don't have history with the brand but let me tell you that for a new first experience it's been a BIG disappointment.

Good thing I return it !


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Joaquinpe said:


> http://imgur.com/wtL7Z
> 
> it is normal that the application dial a different serial number which is engraved watch ??


That'sa bug in the iOS app; will be gone soon-ish.

People keep going to "fit for purpose" and what-not ideas. Of course I could be proven otherwise, but as long as a phone lets you make calls (like I said, I'm seeing trouble with my phone model just now... and at least it doesn't burn up), and a sports watch records data and shows time, I'm pretty sure most judges would consider it to fulfill its purpose (unless you find one who's a legal-field twin to Ray Maker  ).


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

(Don't get me wrong, as a customer, I very much like many US store's policies on returns. And I still tell people that the Spartan platform looks like the future, but the Ambit3 Peak is the way to go if you need something that you'll know works right now.)


----------



## edit0r

What Suunto should have done...

Suunto :Hey, you !
Me : Who, me ?
Suunto : Yes, you! What do you think about this watch?
Me : Well, I like new gadgets and yours look very cool.
Suunto : You look like the kind of tech geek that can deal with the pain of being an early adopter!
Me : I guess...
Suunto : The watch is pretty basic and a bit buggy, but for being an early adopter I will make a 20% discount for you, what do you say?
Me : Well, it looks cool, the price is still big but I am really tempted. Do you have a road map for the firmware?
Suunto : No... we don't know yet what we will implement and how fast.
Me : Well, if you can make me a 35% discount I will put up with the pain of using it and I will use daily so I can give you back plenty of feedback!
Suunto : Great, we need testers and feedback! Welcome to our team !
Me : Thank you very much Suunto !


----------



## JimmyKane

edit0r said:


> What Suunto should have done...
> 
> Suunto :Hey, you !
> Me : Who, me ?
> Suunto : Yes, you! What do you think about this watch?
> Me : Well, I like new gadgets and yours look very cool.
> Suunto : You look like the kind of tech geek that can deal with the pain of being an early adopter!
> Me : I guess...
> Suunto : The watch is pretty basic and a bit buggy, but for being an early adopter I will make a 20% discount for you, what do you say?
> Me : Well, it looks cool, the price is still big but I am really tempted. Do you have a road map for the firmware?
> Suunto : No... we don't know yet what we will implement and how fast.
> Me : Well, if you can make me a 35% discount I will put up with the pain of using it and I will use daily so I can give you back plenty of feedback!
> Suunto : Great, we need testers and feedback! Welcome to our team !
> Me : Thank you very much Suunto !


No discount for me...


----------



## mercuir0

what drives me nuts is that by having a precise look at their servers you can tell that they are starting to roll out and develop the firmware for the next generation of watches (codename dubai) to testers. and that is not the hr version (codename cairo), it's some other still unannounced model!

and they do this instead of doing what seems the only right thing to do: put every single employee capable of into spartan fw development plus hire some more for the job....

i really wonder what their managers think. no matter how precise the optical hr is, if the rest is in the current state, a launch before christmas together with aggressive marketing will only lead to a large increase of sales directly followed by an enormous amount of returns... luckily unlike some samsung products these watches do not explode, but suunto is a rather small company and it could eventually struggle if instead of selling thousands of 700$+ watches they end up having thousands of used watches in their garage....








Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## edit0r

mercuir0 said:


> what drives me nuts is that by having a precise look at their servers you can tell that they are starting to roll out and develop the firmware for the next generation of watches (codename dubai) to testers. and that is not the hr version (codename cairo), it's some other still unannounced model!
> 
> and they do this instead of doing what seems the only right thing to do: put every single employee capable of into spartan fw development plus hire some more for the job....
> 
> i really wonder what their managers think. no matter how precise the optical hr is, if the rest is in the current state, a launch before christmas together with aggressive marketing will only lead to a large increase of sales directly followed by an enormous amount of returns... luckily unlike some samsung products these watches do not explode, but suunto is a rather small company and it could eventually struggle if instead of selling thousands of 700$+ watches they end up having thousands of used watches in their garage....


Yes ! You are right... they act like there is nothing to worry about... like the Spartan has almost all the features that users need... like they are on schedule with the Spartan... 
On the other hand they have all the data and maybe their data tells them that they took a small hit right now but on the long run (2-3 years) they will recover nicely and gain an even larger audience.
Maybe they are counting on the loyal Suunto fans that would never buy a Garmin or Polar or Apple or Samsung or whatever else shows up 
Maybe they have a pretty big crowd of fans so they don't worry too much about the future.

I am just curious what happens... I would like Suunto to succeed and finish the Spartan faster !

Go Suunto !


----------



## jimmysalvo

mercuir0 said:


> what drives me nuts is that by having a precise look at their servers you can tell that they are starting to roll out and develop the firmware for the next generation of watches (codename dubai) to testers. and that is not the hr version (codename cairo), it's some other still unannounced model!
> 
> and they do this instead of doing what seems the only right thing to do: put every single employee capable of into spartan fw development plus hire some more for the job....
> 
> i really wonder what their managers think. no matter how precise the optical hr is, if the rest is in the current state, a launch before christmas together with aggressive marketing will only lead to a large increase of sales directly followed by an enormous amount of returns... luckily unlike some samsung products these watches do not explode, but suunto is a rather small company and it could eventually struggle if instead of selling thousands of 700$+ watches they end up having thousands of used watches in their garage....
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Where do you see their firmware development? Just curious


----------



## JimmyKane

jimmysalvo said:


> Where do you see their firmware development? Just curious


Yep how do you see that?


----------



## Pegasus

Do Suunto have ambassadors that use the watch in world class events? I guess like triathletes or ultra runners etc

If so can we see their moves at all?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pegasus

I found the ambassadors page on Suunto's website and looking at their individual details none of them seem to use the Spartan, either not updated or rather telling who knows.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## capcav73

Pegasus said:


> I found the ambassadors page on Suunto's website and looking at their individual details none of them seem to use the Spartan, either not updated or rather telling who knows.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They may be using it in another développement Movescount, with développement suuntolink to test développement firmware.....


----------



## jeremy1271

capcav73 said:


> They may be using it in another développement Movescount, with développement suuntolink to test développement firmware.....


I'm following Kilian Jornet on movescount, I've seen him using the Spartan 3-4 times and then coming back to his A3P some days before the last FW Suunto announcement.


----------



## JimmyKane

jeremy1271 said:


> I'm following Kilian Jornet on movescount, I've seen him using the Spartan 3-4 times and then coming back to his A3P some days before the last FW Suunto announcement.


Same with my coach who is a greek suunto spornsored athelete


----------



## Pegasus

jeremy1271 said:


> I'm following Kilian Jornet on movescount, I've seen him using the Spartan 3-4 times and then coming back to his A3P some days before the last FW Suunto announcement.


That's interesting if they are reverting to the 'old' hardware too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jeremy1271

Pegasus said:


> That's interesting if they are reverting to the 'old' hardware too.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just checked. He used it from septembre 24th to october 8th. That's it. During this time he even came back once or twice to his A3P.


----------



## ascender

Am interested in quite a few things coming out in this thread!

Mr Ray DC Rainmaker... I think it was you who said here or in your review that return rates are very high. How have you been seeing hat and just how bad is it?

For the Spartan itself, they obviously had a solid base with the Ambit3 Peak. Was the Spartan a totally new hardware and software platform built from the ground up?


----------



## dcrainmaker

ascender said:


> Am interested in quite a few things coming out in this thread!
> 
> Mr Ray DC Rainmaker... I think it was you who said here or in your review that return rates are very high. How have you been seeing hat and just how bad is it?
> 
> For the Spartan itself, they obviously had a solid base with the Ambit3 Peak. Was the Spartan a totally new hardware and software platform built from the ground up?


I see it via the affiliate sites (i.e. Amazon) that I link to. When folks purchase stuff via those links I get credit. Inversely, when they return stuff, I get...uncredit. The return rate is the highest of any product I've seen since I started the blog.


----------



## ascender

dcrainmaker said:


> I see it via the affiliate sites (i.e. Amazon) that I link to. When folks purchase stuff via those links I get credit. Inversely, when they return stuff, I get...uncredit. The return rate is the highest of any product I've seen since I started the blog.


Ah of course, makes perfect sense now I've thought about it! Thanks for taking the time to reply.


----------



## PTBC

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> (Don't get me wrong, as a customer, I very much like many US store's policies on returns. And I still tell people that the Spartan platform looks like the future, but the Ambit3 Peak is the way to go if you need something that you'll know works right now.)


Doesn't this mean you agree that it's not fit for purpose.....yet. Just for the record I'm one of the ones hanging on for now to see if they can turn it around so really do want them to do it.

More seriously I did say in what I posted that if you are trying to get a refund after the return date and are afraid that the vendor may be awkward then its in part about bluff and bluster and using key language/words helps with that, one of those phrases in this circumstance would be to throw fitness for purpose around. Ray at DC Rainmaker referred to the high return rates he is aware of through affiliate links and there's no reports on here (at least) of Suunto refusing refunds so it seems in that respect they are behaving as a reputable company should. Oddly enough that gives me more confidence in them, if they were being awkward about returns I'd most probably not hang on as it would lessen any trust I had, that being said generally their customer service isn't great though I suspect it's partly because they are overwhelmed by whats going on with the Spartan.

As for 'records data and tells time' as a test at the very least it should be expanded to 'accurately records data and tells the correct time' and lets not forget on one of the watch faces the second hand is buggy ;o)


----------



## ascender

I guess part of the risk in waiting to see if they (can) fix the problems is if any of them are compounded by the hardware. Looking at the retail cost of the watch, I'm assuming its got a bunch of nice fast internal components and the debs are just needing some time to optimise their code to make the best use of them, but what if they've under-specced the hardware? How do they then deal with the lag, screen lag, redraw issues etc? As a consumer, the longer you hold on to that watch hoping things could be fixed, the harder its going to be to get a refund. Although I guess that's maybe where you get a bit more protection if you bought with a credit card.


----------



## gcalmettes

Pegasus said:


> Do Suunto have ambassadors that use the watch in world class events? I guess like triathletes or ultra runners etc
> 
> If so can we see their moves at all?


Gediminas Grinius (Pro Ultra Runner) is using the watch for his training and races. His movescount profile is public (name "D2G2").
Notably he did the Ultra Trail du Mont Blanc (activity of 08/26/2016) and Diagonale des Fous (activity of 10/20/2016) with the Spartan. (cannot post links since I do not have enough posts yet)


----------



## dogrunner

jeremy1271 said:


> Just checked. He used it from septembre 24th to october 8th. That's it. During this time he even came back once or twice to his A3P.


I had not checked, but KJ was the first person I thought of when the question came up. I can't imagine he would screw around with dysfunctional gear given what he does.


----------



## Joaquinpe

confirmed by suunto Spain, watch manufacturing error .... urgent sent to Amersport in Barcelona to replace it, very very serious mistake by suunto is unacceptable to happen ...


http://imgur.com/wtL7Z


----------



## PTBC

ascender said:


> I guess part of the risk in waiting to see if they (can) fix the problems is if any of them are compounded by the hardware. Looking at the retail cost of the watch, I'm assuming its got a bunch of nice fast internal components and the debs are just needing some time to optimise their code to make the best use of them, but what if they've under-specced the hardware? How do they then deal with the lag, screen lag, redraw issues etc? As a consumer, the longer you hold on to that watch hoping things could be fixed, the harder its going to be to get a refund. Although I guess that's maybe where you get a bit more protection if you bought with a credit card.


Yes,this is the dilemma, there are some issues around data recording and connectivity which could either be hardware performance issues (it just can't cope) or memory leaks/resource optimisation/code. In a similar vein it's been noted that there are explainable software reasons for some of what has been seen with the GPS performance (theres an interesting comment on the DC rainmaker review about this involving tunnel mode and why it misses simple parts of courses). I'm sure there's a number of other issues (like screen lag) that people with a lot more experience than me could show as having either a hardware (not fixable) or software (maybe fixable) cause.

If you know one way or the other it's hardware or software you can make an informed decision, right now you can't.

On that basis I'd say the GPS bug is critical for the Spartan, if it doesn't fix issues the balance will swing more towards wondering if hardware is capable. This means they need to test thoroughly which means more time, which means more anxious customers (and possibly few new customers). It's a tricky balancing act, but they have dug this hole for themselves and lets hope they have learned from the initial release.


----------



## PTBC

Joaquinpe said:


> confirmed by suunto Spain, watch manufacturing error .... urgent sent to Amersport in Barcelona to replace it, very very serious mistake by suunto is unacceptable to happen ...
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/wtL7Z


Sorry if I'm being slow on the uptake here, there's a disconnect between the watch back and what the software reports and Suunto have confirmed it isn't a bug in the reporting software which means they have either printed the wrong serial number on the watch or assigned the wrong serial number to the unit settings (doesn't matter either way I guess).

Just checked mine and app and watch back agree (hadn't thought about it before) though I'm surprised how faded the text (apart from serial no.) is on the back, especially around the outside of the watch its almost gone in parts


----------



## Joaquinpe

PTBC said:


> Sorry if I'm being slow on the uptake here, there's a disconnect between the watch back and what the software reports and Suunto have confirmed it isn't a bug in the reporting software which means they have either printed the wrong serial number on the watch or assigned the wrong serial number to the unit settings (doesn't matter either way I guess).
> 
> Just checked mine and app and watch back agree (hadn't thought about it before) though I'm surprised how faded the text (apart from serial no.) is on the back, especially around the outside of the watch its almost gone in parts


sorry for my English ... I'm translating from Spanish by Google ... the problem is that does not match the serial number engraved on the clock that makes the APP or Movescount, by serial number that marks the APP makes me think that is a clock of the first to be manufactured, a clock tester, and what they did is change the casing and screen and leave the heart of the old clock ... something totally unforgivable, so have rushed to send the clock quickly to AMERSPORT not want anyone to know this because it is a very serious error in the manufacturing line.


----------



## 604

Joaquinpe said:


> sorry for my English ... I'm translating from Spanish by Google ... the problem is that does not match the serial number engraved on the clock that makes the APP or Movescount, by serial number that marks the APP makes me think that is a clock of the first to be manufactured, a clock tester, and what they did is change the casing and screen and leave the heart of the old clock ... something totally unforgivable, so have rushed to send the clock quickly to AMERSPORT not want anyone to know this because it is a very serious error in the manufacturing line.


Escribe en español y traduzco por ti, porque no se entiende lo que dices. Te lo han confirmado los de Suunto o es lo tú que crees que ha pasado?

* Write in Spanish and I'll translate for you because it's hard to understand what you're saying. Has Suunto confirmed the manufacturing problem or is it just you guessing?


----------



## Joaquinpe

604 said:


> Escribe en español y traduzco por ti, porque no se entiende lo que dices. Te lo han confirmado los de Suunto o es lo tú que crees que ha pasado?
> 
> * Write in Spanish and I'll translate for you because it's hard to understand what you're saying. Has Suunto confirmed the manufacturing problem or is it just you guessing?


ok gracias
explico todo desde el principio:
Reloj comprado en Suunto.com recibido el viernes pasado y hasta el domingo no pude activar, cuando lo enciendo por primera vez me encuentro esta pantalla:


http://imgur.com/ZId88

logro que desaparezca la pantalla y actualizo a la última versión , después comparándolo con otro SSU veo que la pantalla de mío es mucho más oscura con el 100% de iluminación,el mío es el reloj de la parte derecha :


http://imgur.com/46Oao

y para terminar me doy cuenta ayer que el numero de serie que tiene gravado el reloj y la caja no coincide con el que me marca la APP y suntolink al conectar.
Despues de varias fotos enviadas me piden que porfavor sin falta envíe el reloj a Amersport Spain porque es un fallo de fabricación y me tienen que cambiar el reloj por uno nuevo.
Yo pienso que viendo el numero de serie tan bajo que me marcaba la APP este reloj fue de los primeros en fabricarse ora testarlo después volvió a fábrica y cambiaron toda la parte exterior pero se olvidaron de cambiar el numero de serie interno del reloj.
Me parece algo imperdonable con el dinero que cuesta este reloj y con lo que alardean de fabricación manual y Finlandesa...


----------



## 604

The translation



Joaquinpe said:


> From the beginning:
> 
> The watch was bought from Suunto.com and received last friday, but couldn't be activated until Sunday. Once it was started for the first time it was stuck on this screen:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/ZId88
> 
> 
> I managed to get past that screen and updated to the latest version. Afther that I realized comparing with another SSU that my screen was much darker even at 100% brightness (mine is the one on the right):
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/46Oao
> 
> 
> Then I realized yesterday that the serial number engraved in the back of the watch and its box doesn't match with the one shown in the app nor Suuntolink. After going back and forth with customer support, they asked me to send the watch badk to Amersport Spain because it looked like a manufacturing problem and they will replace it for a new unit.
> 
> Given that the serial number shown in the app was so low, my guess is that this watch was one of the few ones to get manufactured to get tested, was sent back to the assembly line and got the body replaced, but forgot to flash the serial number of the electronics component. If that's the case, I'd find it unforgivable after all the emphasis on 'handmade in Finland'


So, it's a guess rather than something confirmed from Suunto. I wouldn't draw any conclusions out of this. It sucks, but faulty units can happen every now and then.


----------



## tinu80

Today I sent my SSU back for a full refund. I will get an Ambit 3 Peak after that, since this seems to be a solid, working watch that fits my needs.
I will go on reading the threads here. But since I won't buy a new watch every half year I probably will be in the game for a possible SSU successor at the earliest (or maybe fenix 4, but not as an early adopter).
So keep posting and have a good time!


----------



## PTBC

604 said:


> The translation
> 
> From the beginning:
> 
> The watch was bought from Suunto.com and received last friday, but couldn't be activated until Sunday. Once it was started for the first time it was stuck on this screen:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/ZId88
> 
> 
> I managed to get past that screen and updated to the latest version. Afther that I realized comparing with another SSU that my screen was much darker even at 100% brightness (mine is the one on the right):
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/46Oao
> 
> 
> Then I realized yesterday that the serial number engraved in the back of the watch and its box doesn't match with the one shown in the app nor Suuntolink. After going back and forth with customer support, they asked me to send the watch badk to Amersport Spain because it looked like a manufacturing problem and they will replace it for a new unit.
> 
> Given that the serial number shown in the app was so low, my guess is that this watch was one of the few ones to get manufactured to get tested, was sent back to the assembly line and got the body replaced, but forgot to flash the serial number of the electronics component. If that's the case, I'd find it unforgivable after all the emphasis on 'handmade in Finland'
> 
> So, it's a guess rather than something confirmed from Suunto. I wouldn't draw any conclusions out of this. It sucks, but faulty units can happen every now and then.


I wouldn't read too much into the serial number, I have a Stealth titanium (which it looks like your model was) and it starts 1629 not 1630, there was some discussion earlier about serial numbers and if there was a logical pattern to them (the leading 4 to 6 digits relating to type or batch etc) and I seem to recall no clear pattern was established.

Edit-I agree it's not good process control for this to happen


----------



## JimmyKane

Here http://www.movescount.com/members/member33735-TheodorakakosDim 
This is one of the Greek Ultra runners and great althlete. He is a Suunto sponsored guy and yes he uses his SSU.

For me Ill keep the watch, support Suunto as much as I can. If things don't change within 5 months then refund. If yes stick with it and if eventually a competitor comes out Ill get that one.

The SSU for me works just fine and I don't miss anything coming of course from a M400. That of course is already a big change and I am not in the same boat with people coming from the V800 or Ambit's.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Just announced:

27th October – We're excited to announce the Suunto Movescount App for Android now supports the Suunto Spartan Ultra & Suunto Spartan Sport watches. This update also features improvements to Bluetooth functionality, in-app navigation and notifications reliability. Download the app from Google Play. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pegasus

No firmware updates though, come on Suunto.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zabanya

Hopefully they will release an update by tomorrow since they said "end of October" and not October 31.  But isn't the next update more on update on movescount rather than the watch? By the way, do you think the ssu will get a temp reading screen like the fenix 3? Just curious.


----------



## JimmyKane

Zabanya said:


> Hopefully they will release an update by tomorrow since they said "end of October" and not October 31.  But isn't the next update more on update on movescount rather than the watch? By the way, do you think the ssu will get a temp reading screen like the fenix 3? Just curious.


Yes temp is coming.I managed to get internal insights and beta frimwares. Cannot disclose but definately up to now looks good


----------



## Pegasus

JimmyKane said:


> Yes temp is coming.I managed to get internal insights and beta frimwares. Cannot disclose but definately up to now looks good


That's good news, is accuracy addressed in them or can't you say?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gousias

JimmyKane said:


> Yes temp is coming.I managed to get internal insights and beta frimwares. Cannot disclose but definately up to now looks good


Just curious and since I don't have experience, what do you mean by "temp"?


----------



## Zabanya

JimmyKane said:


> Yes temp is coming.I managed to get internal insights and beta frimwares. Cannot disclose but definately up to now looks good


Ooh! Looking forward to that update! I am sticking with my ssu. The updates look promising and somehow it works for me. But updates are always welcome.


----------



## Zabanya

gousias said:


> Just curious and since I don't have experience, what do you mean by "temp"?


temp - temperature.


----------



## JimmyKane

Zabanya said:


> Ooh! Looking forward to that update! I am sticking with my ssu. The updates look promising and somehow it works for me. But updates are always welcome.


That is what I am doing as well. Instead of complaining I decided to help them as much as I can. I have no other alternative as of no other watch for me at the moment interests me. So I jump full on board with Suunto. If it sinks it sinks and I ll try to refund or sell the product and consider this as a lease preiod. Neverthess that does not mean that others are ok! I am a senior developer and a human. Sometimes spanking developers that are humans does not work towards good. Suunto knows they have an issue. They are in trouble. More spanking will not fix things. That is my end opinion on this.


----------



## Pegasus

JimmyKane said:


> That is what I am doing as well. Instead of complaining I decided to help them as much as I can. I have no other alternative as of no other watch for me at the moment interests me. So I jump full on board with Suunto. If it sinks it sinks and I ll try to refund or sell the product and consider this as a lease preiod. Neverthess that does not mean that others are ok! I am a senior developer and a human. Sometimes spanking developers that are humans does not work towards good. Suunto knows they have an issue. They are in trouble. More spanking will not fix things. That is my end opinion on this.


I don't blame the developers, I would hope they voiced opinion that the product needed more work before shipping to people. At the end of the day they don't have the final decision but get the blame.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> That is what I am doing as well. Instead of complaining I decided to help them as much as I can. I have no other alternative as of no other watch for me at the moment interests me.


That's my approach too. If the Spartan sinks, then the plan B is Apple. Gotta have a touch screen and top-notch comfort/hardware for painless 24/7 use. Grew tired of compromising comfort for a bunch of features I never use.


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> That's my approach too. If the Spartan sinks, then the plan B is Apple. Gotta have a touch screen and top-notch comfort/hardware for painless 24/7 use. Grew tired of compromising comfort for a bunch of features I never use.


It is definitely a comfortable watch, don't even notice it's on. Easily wearable 24/7.

The straps Suunto make in the silicone have always been superbly comfortable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zabanya

JimmyKane said:


> That is what I am doing as well. Instead of complaining I decided to help them as much as I can. I have no other alternative as of no other watch for me at the moment interests me. So I jump full on board with Suunto. If it sinks it sinks and I ll try to refund or sell the product and consider this as a lease preiod. Neverthess that does not mean that others are ok! I am a senior developer and a human. Sometimes spanking developers that are humans does not work towards good. Suunto knows they have an issue. They are in trouble. More spanking will not fix things. That is my end opinion on this.


I agree. I think they have a very good platform that just needs some ironing out. Hopefully they fix it before the year ends. I am sticking with my ssu because we don't have any return policy like yours do. :-d


----------



## PTBC

I had nothing before (does using the phone count?) and am sticking with what I have for now, it's down to the GPS update for me, other functionality I can wait for, I'm not going to be camping/hiking all weekend for a while. Would love to have something soon though as I am running in another race mid-November and after the disaster that the Spartan was in the last race I'd like to think I could rely on it this time.
Don't blame the dev's, they work with what they have and projects can and will slip, someone at Suunto made a case for shipping when they did and I doubt that was a developer. Marketing definitely played apart in this watch, look at the GPS levels of BEST/GOOD/OK that's someone deciding they don't want perceived negative labels so HIGH/MEDIUM/LOW is out, even if people view it that way; that being said some of the design/UI/styling is very good (I'm OK with the 3 buttons) and part of the reason I'm hanging on as I want the rest of the watch to be as polished.


----------



## JimmyKane

PTBC said:


> I had nothing before (does using the phone count?) and am sticking with what I have for now, it's down to the GPS update for me, other functionality I can wait for, I'm not going to be camping/hiking all weekend for a while. Would love to have something soon though as I am running in another race mid-November and after the disaster that the Spartan was in the last race I'd like to think I could rely on it this time.
> Don't blame the dev's, they work with what they have and projects can and will slip, someone at Suunto made a case for shipping when they did and I doubt that was a developer. Marketing definitely played apart in this watch, look at the GPS levels of BEST/GOOD/OK that's someone deciding they don't want perceived negative labels so HIGH/MEDIUM/LOW is out, even if people view it that way; that being said some of the design/UI/styling is very good (I'm OK with the 3 buttons) and part of the reason I'm hanging on as I want the rest of the watch to be as polished.


I did my best race with Spartan and no issue. Anyways the watch for the race is about the speed and not the gps track accuracy (which in my case was fine). That said I read a lot in these forums things like: oh I did run 5km and recorded 4.9km . Guys GPS is faulty by implementation design. Imagine it as a dog on a lease always with you.


----------



## PTBC

JimmyKane said:


> I did my best race with Spartan and no issue. Anyways the watch for the race is about the speed and not the gps track accuracy (which in my case was fine). That said I read a lot in these forums things like: oh I did run 5km and recorded 4.9km . Guys GPS is faulty by implementation design. Imagine it as a dog on a lease always with you.


Recorded 4.2k for a 5k course, pace/speed was way out; it was my first ever race and I beat my best practice time by 2 minutes which meant I hit my target time so I guess it was also my best race.

On a practice I had 4.8k recorded distance, given this was a trail race I wasn't bothered by the 0.2k difference, as you say there are always some limitations.


----------



## Unperson

One thing that has improved is the movescount contact form, so at least now it is a little less frustrating to report bugs to Suunto.

I think Suunto was very prepared for the backlash of this absurdly unfinished watch, after the first report I sent in they wanted to know my address details so they could send over some Suunto goodies, so damage control was part of the operation since day one.


----------



## JimmyKane

PTBC said:


> Recorded 4.2k for a 5k course, pace/speed was way out; it was my first ever race and I beat my best practice time by 2 minutes which meant I hit my target time so I guess it was also my best race.
> 
> On a practice I had 4.8k recorded distance, given this was a trail race I wasn't bothered by the 0.2k difference, as you say there are always some limitations.


Fair enough.You are right.


----------



## JimmyKane

Unperson said:


> One thing that has improved is the movescount contact form, so at least now it is a little less frustrating to report bugs to Suunto.
> 
> I think Suunto was very prepared for the backlash of this absurdly unfinished watch, after the first report I sent in they wanted to know my address details so they could send over some Suunto goodies, so damage control was part of the operation since day one.


What kind of goodies? Rolleyes


----------



## PTBC

Unperson said:


> One thing that has improved is the movescount contact form, so at least now it is a little less frustrating to report bugs to Suunto.
> 
> I think Suunto was very prepared for the backlash of this absurdly unfinished watch, after the first report I sent in they wanted to know my address details so they could send over some Suunto goodies, so damage control was part of the operation since day one.


Really...I've been lucky to get a reply from them, they've confused multiple tickets and some of their responses have been odd to say the least, I still have no idea what

'when lap data were found the this moves.

can you verify if this is correct?'


means and haven't had an answer since I asked for clarification. Let alone the answer that claimed GPS issues were down to the watch not being set to Best (claiming user error in other words, and this was after they announced the GPS bug)

Have they sent you any goodies, what were they.....maybe I can cheekily ask for the same next time!

Edit-I'd happily forgo goodies if it meant I don't have a 'next time' with support


----------



## Pegasus

I think the goodies was a wind-up, I just can't see them doing this. Pictures or it didn't happen 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## johan6504

PTBC said:


> Really...I've been lucky to get a reply from them, they've confused multiple tickets and some of their responses have been odd to say the least, I still have no idea what
> 
> 'when lap data were found the this moves.
> 
> can you verify if this is correct?'
> 
> 
> means and haven't had an answer since I asked for clarification. Let alone the answer that claimed GPS issues were down to the watch not being set to Best (claiming user error in other words, and this was after they announced the GPS bug)
> 
> Have they sent you any goodies, what were they.....maybe I can cheekily ask for the same next time!
> 
> Edit-I'd happily forgo goodies if it meant I don't have a 'next time' with support


My watch was sent to suunto 11 days ago it has been in repair state since Tuesday. Mailed them today to get some kind of info but still nothing. I don't really see that suunto has a working support right now.

Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


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## PTBC

johan6504 said:


> My watch was sent to suunto 11 days ago it has been in repair state since Tuesday. Mailed them today to get some kind of info but still nothing. I don't really see that suunto has a working support right now.
> 
> Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


Yes at the very least you think anyone who raised a GPS realted issue (as I did last week) would be getting a stock 'known issue....we have identified....working on it....blah..blah' type of answer, they seem to have gone silent.

Edit-speaking of the GPS issue, anyone seen anything on that, it's not on the updates page (which I think it was before) since they added the Android announcement and not listed in the updates for November


----------



## Unperson

JimmyKane said:


> What kind of goodies? Rolleyes


The expected: stickers, branded USB stick. The unexpected: a thin beanie and one of those scarf/beanie foldable thingies, so those will find some use if it gets really cold. Well, only if they get us some feature updates on this thing. Otherwise I am NOT going to run around with a huge Suunto logo on my head, I'll probably get lynched by other frustrated Spartan owners ;-)

It seems rather standard. Suunto employee A: ...., we're sent out this watch but it's missing a ton of features and users are starting to complain. Suunto employee B: Quick! Send them some stickers and a hat! That will show them our good will.

Well I've kept it so it may have helped. Maybe I opened my first ticket within the magic window of the return period, I don't recall.


----------



## JimmyKane

Unperson said:


> The expected: stickers, branded USB stick. The unexpected: a thin beanie and one of those scarf/beanie foldable thingies, so those will find some use if it gets really cold. Well, only if they get us some feature updates on this thing. Otherwise I am NOT going to run around with a huge Suunto logo on my head, I'll probably get lynched by other frustrated Spartan owners ;-)
> 
> It seems rather standard. Suunto employee A: ...., we're sent out this watch but it's missing a ton of features and users are starting to complain. Suunto employee B: Quick! Send them some stickers and a hat! That will show them our good will.
> 
> Well I've kept it so it may have helped. Maybe I opened my first ticket within the magic window of the return period, I don't recall.


Got the same email today!


----------



## bryanredneck27

Well I
Wrote to
Them
Two
Days ago asking for a return/refund.... no answer - must be very busy, nevertheless, I
Spoke to my credit card company and they told me that if they do not return the money I have enough bases for them
To
Return the money and that they will deal with them ... so I will
Wait and see...


----------



## Zabanya

how does adding a route in ssu work and what does it actually do? Any benefits?

Thanks


----------



## PTBC

bryanredneck27 said:


> Well I
> Wrote to
> Them
> Two
> Days ago asking for a return/refund.... no answer - must be very busy, nevertheless, I
> Spoke to my credit card company and they told me that if they do not return the money I have enough bases for them
> To
> Return the money and that they will deal with them ... so I will
> Wait and see...


I sent an answer to a question on a ticket 4 days ago and raised a new ticket 3 days ago, apart from the automatic acknowledgment of the new ticket I haven't heard a word from them, not even an acknowledgment of the GPS bug


----------



## Pegasus

PTBC said:


> I sent an answer to a question on a ticket 4 days ago and raised a new ticket 3 days ago, apart from the automatic acknowledgment of the new ticket I haven't heard a word from them, not even an acknowledgment of the GPS bug


I've just opened a ticket voicing my issues with GPS and the slipping updates, will let you know what response I get.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Unperson

Zabanya said:


> how does adding a route in ssu work and what does it actually do? Any benefits?
> 
> Thanks


You can create routes in movescount via the map, or import existing ones (what I usually do, I just look for a .gpx for a hike and import that in movescount). In the watch settings within movescount you can, in the Navigation bit of the list, select which routes sync to the watch. On the watch you can then select this route as an option in a move (swipe down on the watch and select route there, then pick the one you want to use). Depending on the type of move you then get a route screen that shows where you are, makes a breadcrumb trail and also shows the route you put on it as a blue line. Quite good for navigation.

This works quite well but it's very basic, so no waypoints, trackback along breadcrumbs, pointers to what direction a waypoint is in, et cetera, it's very basic. You can't even choose the zoom level, for some silly reason the lower right button still makes laps, even in the hiking mode.


----------



## HIKESOLO

Ughh, these forums are depressing, haha. 

I just received my Copper Special Edition SSU in the mail on Saturday. While it seems like in time this will be a great watch, I honestly mostly walk and it's overkill for me anyways. Don't want to violate any forum rules so if anyone is interested please PM me for the link to buy. Letting go of it for $700 ($920 retail price), tried it out once on a one mile walk. Not personally interested in waiting a while for all the updates when I can just use my phone to track my walks. Shipping to US only.


----------



## Pegasus

It's gone really quiet here lately, has everyone given up? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tinu80

Just a small feedback, have sent back my SSU and am now using an ambit 3 peak sapphire. Now this thing is awesome. It has exactly what I need, and as an "add-on" GPS performance is really awesome. I even get GPS lock inside our house, first-timer for any GPS unit I have ever used. 
I really can understand now the disappointment of former ambit 3 users. But the ambit 3 proves to me that Suunto is capable of making really good watches (in terms of hard- and software). Will probably check SSU features again in some months (yes, I said I wouldn't buy the SSU again, but... I know myself better


----------



## ascender

Pegasus said:


> It's gone really quiet here lately, has everyone given up?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm continuing to follow the thread out of interest, but I returned my Spartan last week and got a blue Ambit3 Sapphire Peak. Its like the return of an old friend!


----------



## Zabanya

I think the "end" of october uodate really means the end of it. Maybe 1159pm? Btw, will the uodate impact our watches or just the movescount app? Will the tbc update be released first before the 11/2016 one?


----------



## krazyeone

Maybe theyr server clocks were not turned backwards automatically

Ps: it's a joke , I found that Ambit3 Peak does not auto update DST ...


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> It's gone really quiet here lately, has everyone given up?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is another thread running about the October delay, seems to be more active

https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-software-release-delays-oct-19-2016-a-3683834.html

Also contains a link to fellrnrs review, not for the faint of heart


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Very OT, but considering that my (Sony) phone has a sensor bug so that e.g. accelerometer (and therefore auto-rotate, orientation on photos) doesn't work anymore, a fix has been promised for "November"... and now they just announced that its update to Android 7.0 would come in November... well, it's not just Suunto. (And of course, the obligatory joke has become "at least it doesn't explode on you")


----------



## PTBC

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Very OT, but considering that my (Sony) phone has a sensor bug so that e.g. accelerometer (and therefore auto-rotate, orientation on photos) doesn't work anymore, a fix has been promised for "November"... and now they just announced that its update to Android 7.0 would come in November... well, it's not just Suunto. (And of course, the obligatory joke has become "at least it doesn't explode on you")


They are updating the Android version, that's good....promised then abandoned android updates is why I gave up on the platform


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Looks like the massive online campaign to take Spartan Ultra down worked pretty well. Now we get no updates, no clear notice that it is indeed delayed, no explanation of why that happened, no apologies, no new estimated time for delivery, and few users are even asking about it here. I hope you all who insisted on discussing GPS and battery issues for months are happy now... and that you upset Suunto/Amer enough with all the poor reviews that they now feel like sticking a couple lawsuits up yours.


----------



## dogrunner

LONG_HAUL said:


> Looks like the massive online campaign to take Spartan Ultra down worked pretty well. Now we get no updates, no clear notice that it is indeed delayed, no explanation of why that happened, no apologies, no new estimated time for delivery, and few users are even asking about it here. I hope you all who insisted on discussing GPS and battery issues for months are happy now... and that you upset Suunto/Amer enough with all the poor reviews that they now feel like sticking a couple lawsuits up yours.


Are you joking? I missed the smiley emoticon..If not...what an ass.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

PTBC said:


> They are updating the Android version, that's good....promised then abandoned android updates is why I gave up on the platform


Well,but it's also a model which would be the latest if they hadn't released newerones just... 3? 4?... months after the one I have...


----------



## tinu80

LONG_HAUL said:


> Looks like the massive online campaign to take Spartan Ultra down worked pretty well. Now we get no updates, no clear notice that it is indeed delayed, no explanation of why that happened, no apologies, no new estimated time for delivery, and few users are even asking about it here. I hope you all who insisted on discussing GPS and battery issues for months are happy now... and that you upset Suunto/Amer enough with all the poor reviews that they now feel like sticking a couple lawsuits up yours.


Sorry but this is complete BS. I'm sure competitors are doing what you suspect. But in this case, Suunto just screwed up the introduction of this watch, no need to blame others.


----------



## Pegasus

I'm beginning to wonder if Suunto has some accounts on here to defend the indefensible.

How on on earth could Suunto take lawsuits out against the customer?? Please explain as I'd love to know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

tinu80 said:


> Sorry but this is complete BS. I'm sure competitors are doing what you suspect. But in this case, Suunto just screwed up the introduction of this watch, no need to blame others.


It is not BS. If you break someone's car window, you did something wrong. But I cannot use that to justify going and breaking your car window myself, even if I saw you breaking the other car. The owner of that car can sue you, but you can still sue me for breaking your window. I'm not denying Suunto has released the Spartan Ultra with some issues. Im just saying that cannot be used to justify the massive defamatory online campaign perpetrated against them.


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> It is not BS. If you break someone's car window, you did something wrong. But I cannot use that to justify going and breaking your car window myself, even if I saw you breaking the other car. The owner of that car can sue you, but you can still sue me for breaking your window. I'm not denying Suunto has released the Spartan Ultra with some issues. Im just saying that cannot be used to justify the massive defamatory online campaign perpetrated against them.


You seem a little annoyed!

The analogy above doesn't really work out does it?? If you break my car window it is not defamatory to tell everyone you broke my car window, it's fact. Nobody has 'broken' Suunto as far as I have seen.

All I've seen is people giving truthful feedback unless you've seen different?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if Suunto has some accounts on here to defend the indefensible.
> 
> How on on earth could Suunto take lawsuits out against the customer?? Please explain as I'd love to know.


You are personally attacking me before a wider public, as many others have been doing on this forum, without effective moderation from the part of host site. This is being noted. I'm not defending anything and my only relation to this topic is having purchased the Spartan Ultra.

As of yesterday I had not had the usual feedback from Suunto as far as an scheduled update that had not been rolled out. Now I see they posted answers to the exact points I made on my comment. Other than that I was just expressing a few personal wishes.


----------



## tinu80

LONG_HAUL said:


> You are personally attacking me before a wider public, as many others have been doing on this forum, without effective moderation from the part of host site. This is being noted.


Lunch time, at least here in CH! Man, am I hungry today...


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> You are personally attacking me before a wider public, as many others have been doing on this forum, without effective moderation from the part of host site. This is being noted. I'm not defending anything and my only relation to this topic is having purchased the Spartan Ultra.
> 
> As of yesterday I had not had the usual feedback from Suunto as far as an scheduled update that had not been rolled out. Now I see they posted answers to the exact points I made on my comment. Other than that I was just expressing a few personal wishes.


I mentioned no names as far as I can see, also I happen to enjoy reading most of your posts, I think if we are being picky you have more than once directly called me derogatory things but it's ok, I'm wearing my big boy pants 

Someone suggested competitors may post on forums and my assumption was that maybe Suunto do too, nothing more, nothing less.

I think the common goal with all of us is that we want what we paid for which is not unreasonable. All this talk of lawsuits etc is just ruining an interesting debate in my opinion.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pegasus

Back on topic.......what does Auto adjust do in the altimeter (outdoor) menu? I don't see any change when I select it, it just says 'All done'.

Anyone know?

Thanks guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> If you break my car window it is not defamatory to tell everyone you broke my car window...


It depends!!! Unfortunately. But yet, one cannot always go before a wider public to shame a person for something wrong they have done, even if the person has already been convicted. You should notice how people caught in the act are still referred to as "suspect" up until an actual conviction. But that is not something we need to be discussing here, first because I'm not a lawyer, second because the kind of money involved when you defame a company like Amer could make any discussions posted here become fairly insignificant.


----------



## darkshait

LONG_HAUL said:


> Looks like the massive online campaign to take Spartan Ultra down worked pretty well. Now we get no updates, no clear notice that it is indeed delayed, no explanation of why that happened, no apologies, no new estimated time for delivery, and few users are even asking about it here. I hope you all who insisted on discussing GPS and battery issues for months are happy now... and that you upset Suunto/Amer enough with all the poor reviews that they now feel like sticking a couple lawsuits up yours.


Don't feed the troll


----------



## LONG_HAUL

darkshait said:


> Don't feed the troll


That's offensive and has been reported.


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> It depends!!! Unfortunately. But yet, one cannot always go before a wider public to shame a person for something wrong they have done, even if the person has already been convicted. You should notice how people caught in the act are still referred to as "suspect" up until an actual conviction. But that is not something we need to be discussing here, first because I'm not a lawyer, second because the kind of money involved when you defame a company like Amer could make any discussions posted here become fairly insignificant.


You win, if only positive opinion is 'legal' then I give up.

I will just watch the forum and keep my 'opinions' to myself, it's really only a debate and not exactly life and death, not worth the energy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> You win, if only positive opinion is 'legal' then I give up.
> 
> I will just watch the forum and keep my 'opinions' to myself, it's really only a debate and not exactly life and death, not worth the energy.


I agree. I have been doing the same. After a long time, yesterday I just posted a simple note expressing my personal opinion and another user was allowed to call my an "ass" without being effectively moderated and the post edited. Then I'm called a troll for no obvious reason after simply replying to the attacks here, and that is not moderated either. I don't understand why this is such a big deal for some either. But I also don't understand what the constraints are preventing moderators from doing their job and cleaning up the thread.


----------



## ixman

LONG_HAUL said:


> I agree. I have been doing the same. After a long time, yesterday I just posted a simple note expressing my personal opinion and another user was allowed to call my an "ass" without being effectively moderated and the post edited. Then I'm called a troll for no obvious reason after simply replying to the attacks here, and that is not moderated either. I don't understand why this is such a big deal for some either. But I also don't understand what the constraints are preventing moderators from doing their job and cleaning up the thread.


Clean up the thread?!?!? It's something called freedom of expression. Remember that? Probably not. BTW you've started all this when saying that Suunto should "sue" us because of our lies and nasty remarks related to their premium, stellar product THAT doesn't work as advertised! You tell me who's lying here!
By now we all got familiar with your North Korea style adulation with Suunto but not all of us share your views. I have been a long time Suunto customer but this time they blew it, badly. End of.

...and don't forget "that's like your opinion man" to quote the great philosopher Lebowski.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

ixman said:


> Clean up the thread?!?!? It's something called freedom of expression. Remember that?...


Yes, but every forum has rules to guide such expressions. I don't think the rules allow me to call you an "ass" or "troll", even if you qualified as such. Or do they? Maybe I'm misreading them and I can start going around calling people names, even moderators. And cling to freedom of expression if I get in trouble.


----------



## darkshait

...


----------



## Zabanya

Pegasus said:


> Back on topic.......what does Auto adjust do in the altimeter (outdoor) menu? I don't see any change when I select it, it just says 'All done'.
> 
> Anyone know?
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> It calibrates your current altitude. If you have another watch that can tell your altitude, you can adjust your ssu manually then if you auto adjusts, it uses the new value and calibrates it automatically. Well, based on my experience that is.


----------



## Pegasus

Thanks for the reply, I wasn't sure if it was like FusedAlti on the ambit 3 but I guess not.

Is there a way to use FusedAlti when you don't know your exact altitude?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ifarlow

LONG_HAUL said:


> Looks like the massive online campaign to take Spartan Ultra down worked pretty well. Now we get no updates, no clear notice that it is indeed delayed, no explanation of why that happened, no apologies, no new estimated time for delivery, and few users are even asking about it here. I hope you all who insisted on discussing GPS and battery issues for months are happy now... and that you upset Suunto/Amer enough with all the poor reviews that they now feel like sticking a couple lawsuits up yours.


So let me get this straight... you believe that because people complained about the Spartan Ultra, Suunto got offended, gathered all of their toys, and left the sandbox? Seriously? Do you seriously believe this is the way the world works? If so, then you have to believe that Suunto is as emotionally fragile as you are.

Unreal.

But yeah... how _dare_ anyone keep talking about problems they are experiencing with the Spartan Ultra when they should be singing Suunto's praise regardless of reality. We wouldn't want to hurt Suunto's feelings, now would we? They might stop making products because it just hurts too much to get out of bed in the mornings.


----------



## Hecke

can someone please pm me once something useful shows up here again? *closes tab*


----------



## LONG_HAUL

ifarlow said:


> So let me get this straight... you believe that because people complained about the Spartan Ultra, Suunto got offended, gathered all of their toys, and left the sandbox? Seriously? Do you seriously believe this is the way the world works? If so, then you have to believe that Suunto is as emotionally fragile as you are.
> 
> Unreal.
> 
> But yeah... how _dare_ anyone keep talking about problems they are experiencing with the Spartan Ultra when they should be singing Suunto's praise regardless of reality. We wouldn't want to hurt Suunto's feelings, now would we? They might stop making products because it just hurts too much to get out of bed in the mornings.


I don't see it that way at all. And I don't understand why the moderators on this forum are allowing you as a group to single me out and be so offensive. This really stands out from my experience in other forums.


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> Looks like the massive online campaign to take Spartan Ultra down worked pretty well. Now we get no updates, no clear notice that it is indeed delayed, no explanation of why that happened, no apologies, no new estimated time for delivery, and few users are even asking about it here. I hope you all who insisted on discussing GPS and battery issues for months are happy now... and that you upset Suunto/Amer enough with all the poor reviews that they now feel like sticking a couple lawsuits up yours.


Your saying this isn't satirical?

In order for something to be defamatory it must be untrue, not sure what you think is untrue in the reviews
Now the fact that Garmin have sold loads of Fenix 3's despite similar issues is definitely interesting, but not what I'd call a conspiracy, in part I'd put that down to reputation impact and that people expect more/better from Suunto


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> Your saying this isn't satirical?
> 
> In order for something to be defamatory it must be untrue, not sure what you think is untrue in the reviews
> Now the fact that Garmin have sold loads of Fenix 3's despite similar issues is definitely interesting, but not what I'd call a conspiracy, in part I'd put that down to reputation impact and that people expect more/better from Suunto


You have a point. The whole F3 story was super odd. And then going from that to now having to deal with the Spartan issues, it is just too much trouble for little reward. My reference is the 910XT. That watch costed $400 on Feb/2012. All a company had to do was to add a power save mode to it (and drop the price . Any company. But it just never happened. Since then watches became either too complex, or not provide enough freedom. No watch ever hit the spot since that release.


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> You have a point. The whole F3 story was super odd. And then going from that to now having to deal with the Spartan issues, it is just too much trouble for little reward. My reference is the 910XT. That watch costed $400 on Feb/2012. All a company had to do was to add a power save mode to it (and drop the price . Any company. But it just never happened. Since then watches became either too complex, or not provide enough freedom. No watch ever hit the spot since that release.


Both fellrnr and DC Rainmaker reviews point out that we seem to be going backwards with watches and instead of stable core functionality with new stuff layered on it's actually become form over function and GPS performance has declined.
Personally I think companies can or should get some leeway on losing the GPS bump, just not as much as we are seeing. There's an Ambit without the bump as well, wonder how the Spartan performs against that as it could be considered as a benchmark for comparison. If it's better than current Spartan performance then maybe there is some hope that software can fix the issues to some degree.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

PTBC said:


> Both fellrnr and DC Rainmaker reviews point out that we seem to be going backwards with watches and instead of stable core functionality with new stuff layered on it's actually become form over function and GPS performance has declined.
> Personally I think companies can or should get some leeway on losing the GPS bump, just not as much as we are seeing. There's an Ambit without the bump as well, wonder how the Spartan performs against that as it could be considered as a benchmark for comparison. If it's better than current Spartan performance then maybe there is some hope that software can fix the issues to some degree.


Next time I go outfor a run, methinks I should take the Traverse rather than the A3P to comparewith the Spartan...

All the discussionsover quality and features just had me look back at the early Ambit. Wasn't asbad as with the Spartan, but as a completely new platform, it wasn't all thathot yet, either: Suunto Ambit Review @FW v1.0.7 - AMBITion (Un)Fulfilled - at home in&#8230;


----------



## PTBC

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Next time I go outfor a run, methinks I should take the Traverse rather than the A3P to comparewith the Spartan...
> 
> All the discussionsover quality and features just had me look back at the early Ambit. Wasn't asbad as with the Spartan, but as a completely new platform, it wasn't all thathot yet, either: Suunto Ambit Review @FW v1.0.7 - AMBITion (Un)Fulfilled - at home in&#8230;


Thanks, that would be useful as it eliminates the GPS bump from the equation (there's still other hardware issues) so much closer to comparing like with like and maybe an idea of what the Spartan will be capable of if it's just software.

Interestingly my last ticket about GPS issues just received a reply and apart from the usual send logs request make move public stuff they also wanted to know weather and battery level at the time


----------



## edit0r

ah, nevermind


----------



## Unperson

Could you peeps just please start a different thread for the trollfeeding, trollbaiting and turning into trolls yourselves? I keep coming in here expecting to find some news but it's usually just people bickering about who is more unreasonable. There's probably other forums for that, here we'd like to continue on topic on the Spartan.

On which front I have no news but after the daylight saving kicked in and all the leafs fell from the trees running has become a lot harder. I was happy to not run into a ditch in the dark tonight. GPS track doesn't look half bad, but then again it's been mostly acceptable for me (though I'm sure not as good as the better antenna on earlier watches could manage. I did shoot in a ticket about not being able to set distance as a target while movescount itself describes this as a possibility but Suunto hasn't gotten back to me on that...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Unperson said:


> I keep coming in here expecting to find some news...


I think the most recent news is that another update was delayed. This time it was an Movescount update. And this time Suunto wasn't upfront about it. In the past they would post a note on the same day the update was scheduled to roll out to let everyone know there had been no update. This time they posted a note only next day, just saying they are working on it, apologizing for the delay, without providing a new estimate time for release. That followed the publication of very negative reviews and an online campaign to get people to return their Spartan watches. AFAIK, those are the latest facts.


----------



## petmic

I have not noticed any "online campaign to get people to return their Spartan watches". What makes you to think that? 

All reviews I personally read were negative but this simply reflects the current state of Spartan. Sunnto is selling a product with promises they are unable to keep. It's as simple as that. No wonder people are unhappy (if not deceived) and are returning the product that does not work as advertised.


----------



## Pegasus

I'm not aware of an online campaign either, just many customers feeling let down. Would be interested to see a link to it?

If you want to see really upset people check the Apple forum regarding their new pricing for minimal upgrades, they are far less tolerant than we have been 

Customers expectations go up with the price that's the way of life and so it should in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

petmic said:


> I have not noticed any "online campaign to get people to return their Spartan watches". What makes you to think that?


Thank you for clearly stating your opinion and for asking a direct question.

I think I started to first develop that impression when specific details on return rates started being discussed publicly. The number of returns detected by one seller should only refer to the subgroup of customers who purchased it from them, in the first place.

Again, I'm not saying the Spartan is a good choice right now. And it is hard to look bad bashing a watch that is a piece of crap to start with. But I think some people managed to do that. And as I said before, Suunto's mistakes do not justify anybody else's mistakes.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> If you want to see really upset people check the Apple forum regarding their new pricing for minimal upgrades...


I think I know what you mean. But isn't most of that anger being fueled specifically in GB by the "Brexit surcharge/tax"?


----------



## Zabanya

Is the 11/2016 update which is the altitude and barometric updates the last update for November? Can they just give us that asap so we can have an update for our ssu? Hoping that they just throw us a bone or something for all our troubles and all those delays


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Zabanya said:


> Is the 11/2016 update which is the altitude and barometric updates the last update for November? Can they just give us that asap so we can have an update for our ssu? Hoping that they just throw us a bone or something for all our troubles and all those delays


I personally think Suunto is in a full-on chaos control mode right now. I think they may have new functionality ready to be released. However, I think they don't have the fixes for the GPS/BLE issues ready/fully tested yet. My impression is that they are putting the whole show on hold, until they get those fixes out in the field and nailed down pretty good. So I'm expecting the next firmware update(s) to be bug fixes only. And to fix only GPS/BLE issues. But that is just my impression. Could be totally mistaken. Holding on for news hopefully soon...


----------



## Zabanya

LONG_HAUL said:


> I personally think Suunto is in a full-on chaos control mode right now. I think they may have new functionality ready to be released. However, I think they don't have the fixes for the GPS/BLE issues ready/fully tested yet. My impression is that they are putting the whole show on hold, until they get those fixes out in the field and nailed down pretty good. So I'm expecting the next firmware update(s) to be bug fixes only. And to fix only GPS/BLE issues. But that is just my impression. Could be totally mistaken. Holding on for news hopefully soon...


I sure hope so. I am even hoping that there will be an update today but I doubt it. Probably more apologies and delays if something comes up. It is getting tiring though. Too bad there is no return policy where I live if your are not satisfied with a product.


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> I think I know what you mean. But isn't most of that anger being fueled specifically in GB by the "Brexit surcharge/tax"?


You are right, it seems to have certainly added a fair percentage of the increase unfortunately.

I hugely hope Suunto can sort all this regarding the Spartan as I love the watch as a daily wearer, I think the aesthetics are great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> You are right, it seems to have certainly added a fair percentage of the increase unfortunately.
> 
> I hugely hope Suunto can sort all this regarding the Spartan as I love the watch as a daily wearer, I think the aesthetics are great.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OT alert: Aside from Brexit tax, I think there are other factors that are contributing to how people feel in other locales too, in my opinion: the 16GB limit having been caught by the KGI BS sniffer, Mr. Kuo, and the "dongle paradox", as I call it. I think I will be happy in two years. But until then... not sure...

I don't know anymore what to think about Suunto, to be honest. In my books they have got to straighten out the GPS/BLE quandary first because the entire MC castle of cards sits on that base being reliable. Crossing my fingers...


----------



## PTBC

Anyone else seen this

https://the5krunner.com/2016/11/01/suunto-suuntospartan-trainer-optical-hr-fcc-filing

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

If this is the case Suunto really are taking the piss.

Had awful track again last night, it was raining, but you'd think that something called a Spartan Ultra could handle some bad weather, and if it doesn't it's not much use where I live, I assume it was the weather and it doesn't have problems with the dark (right now that's only half a joke). After looking at the GPS track in disgust I saw the above article, this did not help.

I swear it was using dead reckoning not GPS it was so bad, weather was bad, but this was all pavement and open road, performance seems to be getting worse, some of these are sections where it's previously tracked me well, even in bad weather.


----------



## johan6504

PTBC said:


> Anyone else seen this
> 
> https://the5krunner.com/2016/11/01/suunto-suuntospartan-trainer-optical-hr-fcc-filing
> 
> Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
> 
> If this is the case Suunto really are taking the piss.
> 
> Had awful track again last night, it was raining, but you'd think that something called a Spartan Ultra could handle some bad weather, and if it doesn't it's not much use where I live, I assume it was the weather and it doesn't have problems with the dark (right now that's only half a joke). After looking at the GPS track in disgust I saw the above article, this did not help.
> 
> I swear it was using dead reckoning not GPS it was so bad, weather was bad, but this was all pavement and open road, performance seems to be getting worse, some of these are sections where it's previously tracked me well, even in bad weather.


Yes, I have seen similar problem. I would say that I have similar tracking problem every time I run with my SSU, at least in trail conditions. This is just the way the SSU performs today. The only hope is that we get a GPS update that end this once and for all...
This is my run from yesterday.


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> Thank you for clearly stating your opinion and for asking a direct question.
> 
> I think I started to first develop that impression when specific details on return rates started being discussed publicly. The number of returns detected by one seller should only refer to the subgroup of customers who purchased it from them, in the first place.
> 
> Again, I'm not saying the Spartan is a good choice right now. And it is hard to look bad bashing a watch that is a piece of crap to start with. But I think some people managed to do that. And as I said before, Suunto's mistakes do not justify anybody else's mistakes.


IF you are referring to the information on DC Rainmakers review then in fairness it was in the comments not the review and a response to a question, it wasn't as if he went out of his way to put the information out


----------



## Pegasus

PTBC said:


> Anyone else seen this
> 
> https://the5krunner.com/2016/11/01/suunto-suuntospartan-trainer-optical-hr-fcc-filing
> 
> Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
> 
> If this is the case Suunto really are taking the piss.
> 
> Had awful track again last night, it was raining, but you'd think that something called a Spartan Ultra could handle some bad weather, and if it doesn't it's not much use where I live, I assume it was the weather and it doesn't have problems with the dark (right now that's only half a joke). After looking at the GPS track in disgust I saw the above article, this did not help.
> 
> I swear it was using dead reckoning not GPS it was so bad, weather was bad, but this was all pavement and open road, performance seems to be getting worse, some of these are sections where it's previously tracked me well, even in bad weather.
> 
> View attachment 9812530


I'm sorry, when I saw this track I laughed out loud........not at you, but it's so bad it made me chuckle 

I have had similar and I have now learned to almost look forward to where 'it' thinks I walked/flew/swam 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eeun

LONG_HAUL said:


> I think I know what you mean. But isn't most of that anger being fueled specifically in GB by the "Brexit surcharge/tax"?


Vote remain by any chance? Father-in-law died last month, probably Brexit related don't you think?

People are pissed because the old spec Mac Pro has not been upgraded but has been put up in price well above the drop in the £. The new laptops are more expensive in the US and elsewhere and have mostly just got thinner and lighter which is not what most people want. Naff all to do with leaving the EU. As I said elsewhere including the new Spartan Ultra, form over function and at a hiked price.


----------



## edit0r

PTBC said:


> Anyone else seen this
> 
> Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
> 
> If this is the case Suunto really are taking the piss.


Given the poor state of the Spartan firmware, the inconsistent GPS performance, the slow update, the delays how can Suunto launch a new watch so soon?

What I should understand as a consumer from these pictures?

That they FINALLY understood that the Spartan/Traverse/Vertical antenna is not up to the task and they must get back to the old designs that they were proven to work reliably?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

eeun said:


> Vote remain by any chance? Father-in-law died last month, probably Brexit related don't you think?
> 
> People are pissed because the old spec Mac Pro has not been upgraded but has been put up in price well above the drop in the £. The new laptops are more expensive in the US and elsewhere and have mostly just got thinner and lighter which is not what most people want. Naff all to do with leaving the EU. As I said elsewhere including the new Spartan Ultra, form over function and at a hiked price.


I know this is OT, but I can't resist to reply... just blame it on Apple 

I saw a video processing benchmark test at the store someone was running using an older MacBook Pro versus the new "escape" 13 inches. It beat the crap out of the old model. Apple also posted benchmarking results favorable to the new model. And The Verge released a pretty good review today. Are you saying there is no gain on processing power/speed? The Spartan Ultra is not as much form over function is my opinion, but more along the lines of a focus on functionality people are actually more likely to use. But that is just me (I hope I don't get called names for saying this...oh well...).


----------



## gousias

edit0r said:


> Given the poor state of the Spartan firmware, the inconsistent GPS performance, the slow update, the delays how can Suunto launch a new watch so soon?
> 
> What I should understand as a consumer from these pictures?
> 
> That they FINALLY understood that the Spartan/Traverse/Vertical antenna is not up to the task and they must get back to the old designs that they were proven to work reliably?


I don't think returning to the older design would be good. Instead I would like to see SUUNTO improving the current SSU problems by remaining to this new design.
I really hope we can see the SSU getting fixed soon.


----------



## PTBC

edit0r said:


> Given the poor state of the Spartan firmware, the inconsistent GPS performance, the slow update, the delays how can Suunto launch a new watch so soon?
> 
> What I should understand as a consumer from these pictures?
> 
> That they FINALLY understood that the Spartan/Traverse/Vertical antenna is not up to the task and they must get back to the old designs that they were proven to work reliably?


Is it an Ambit (4?) with a spartan colour (non-touch) screen and oHR or a Spartan Sport oHR with a bump, nothing confusing about it all :0)


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> Anyone else seen this
> 
> https://the5krunner.com/2016/11/01/suunto-suuntospartan-trainer-optical-hr-fcc-filing
> 
> Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
> 
> If this is the case Suunto really are taking the piss.
> 
> Had awful track again last night, it was raining, but you'd think that something called a Spartan Ultra could handle some bad weather, and if it doesn't it's not much use where I live, I assume it was the weather and it doesn't have problems with the dark (right now that's only half a joke). After looking at the GPS track in disgust I saw the above article, this did not help.
> 
> I swear it was using dead reckoning not GPS it was so bad, weather was bad, but this was all pavement and open road, performance seems to be getting worse, some of these are sections where it's previously tracked me well, even in bad weather.


This thread is very long and personally I would like to come back here for Ultra news. I stuck the photos and the 5kRunner link in a new thread on the Trainer. Hope that is ok.


----------



## edit0r

gousias said:


> I don't think returning to the older design would be good.


From what I have seen (the last 3 Suunto models mentioned earlier) the new design cannot compete to the old one. We loose functionality, precision, reliability over looks/design.



gousias said:


> Instead I would like to see SUUNTO improving the current SSU problems by remaining to this new design.


They might, but then again they might not. I am hoping they will! The Fenix 3 experience teached me that sometimes it's not exactly possible... Time will tell...


----------



## Pegasus

They are so busy working on fixing the Spartan issues they no longer reply to customers logging faults, I have waited 5 days so far 

It seems to have gone really quiet, hope to hear from them or even better see a positive update soon.

Did Garmin ever acknowledge problems with the Fenix 3, I didn't really keep track of that release and the problems?

Just wondering how they dealt with it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> They are so busy working on fixing the Spartan issues they no longer reply to customers logging faults, I have waited 5 days so far
> 
> It seems to have gone really quiet, hope to hear from them or even better see a positive update soon.
> 
> Did Garmin ever acknowledge problems with the Fenix 3, I didn't really keep track of that release and the problems?
> 
> Just wondering how they dealt with it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My last ticket raised was 7 days to receive even the please send logs message, they also asked if I remembered the battery level and weather. The weather I can understand as it will have some performance impact, but interested as to why they asked about battery level. As I'd had a previous ticket where they said after reviewing logs that GPS wasn't set to Best it made me wonder if there was some sort of auto power saving mode kicking in and reducing performance which was why they were interested in battery life.

Also no offer of goodies...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> ...interested as to why they asked about battery level. As I'd had a previous ticket where they said after reviewing logs that GPS wasn't set to Best it made me wonder if there was some sort of auto power saving mode kicking in and reducing performance which was why they were interested in battery life...


Each of the little legs you see coming out of a chip have a function. Some will require to be provided an operating voltage within a range. Only within that range the circuit as a whole can be expected to operate as designed. They may have found an issue that causes one of the voltage levels provided to the GPS module to be out of spec for BEST and causing the chip to fall back to some other mode if the battery is below a certain level. But that is pure speculation. I think they asked you that just to blow smoke. They already said they found the problem. Now they need to roll out the fix for it. We are all waiting.


----------



## thyokel

This watch is great for my neeed. Suunto constantly provide the update news is sweet, although sometime it was delayed, sometime it is not related to what I need.


----------



## gimegime

PTBC said:


> IF you are referring to the information on DC Rainmakers review then in fairness it was in the comments not the review and a response to a question, it wasn't as if he went out of his way to put the information out


Yes he did...listen to his podcast

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jimmysalvo

....


----------



## BobMiles

Community training insights have just been released on movescount.com
No news on the spartan though.


----------



## petmic

BobMiles said:


> Community training insights have just been released on movescount.com
> No news on the spartan though.


However, i cannot see Progress tool and Personal bests....i guess they have a major problem when they did not release these two with community insights


----------



## BobMiles

petmic said:


> However, i cannot see Progress tool and Personal bests....i guess they have a major problem when they did not release these two with community insights


Yes, they split the update because they had problems with the progress tool.


----------



## ifarlow

Some of the training insight details are in metric units while others are in imperial units. This is despite my Movescount setting for imperial units. Odd.


----------



## petmic

All is in metric for me - but i have the movescount set to metric units.

I think this tool has very little (if some) use for me. Also, what's is the point of showing No heart rate in "TRAINING AT DIFFERENT HEART RATE ZONES"? The time span in "TOTAL" is what? A week, month or what?? I just don't get it. It's either a poor presentation of the data or perhaps i am not clever enough to figure it out.

I think if Suunto did shoe/gear usage tracking instead it would be a better use of the development resources.


----------



## margusl

petmic said:


> I think if Suunto did shoe/gear usage tracking instead it would be a better use of the development resources.


They kind of did - for basic gear usage tracking you can use tags. No activity based defaults, distance alarms or what not, but you have way more freedom than just shoes for runs and bikes for rides.


----------



## petmic

margusl said:


> They kind of did - for basic gear usage tracking you can use tags. No activity based defaults, distance alarms or what not, but you have way more freedom than just shoes for runs and bikes for rides.


Yeah, i know that...but i am not happy with it. It requires me to remember what shoes i used, edit every single move after sync and then select tag to see the mileage. These days, when even fridges have more computing power than Apollo spacecrafts had i would kind of expect more user friendly solution. Is it too much?

Few years ago i used Polar RS400 with Polar Pro Trainer 5 windows SW. That was state of the art solution comparing to what is on market now. I just dont get why SW is so limited in functions and has so many bugs these days.


----------



## ifarlow

petmic said:


> All is in metric for me - but i have the movescount set to metric units.


I pointed out to Suunto on Facebook the issue with mixed imperial & metric units, and was told that the developers have been made aware of it and will fix it as soon as possible. So, yeah... there you go.


----------



## PTBC

ifarlow said:


> I pointed out to Suunto on Facebook the issue with mixed imperial & metric units, and was told that the developers have been made aware of it and will fix it as soon as possible. So, yeah... there you go.


When schedules are tight and pressure is on to release then testing and quality control often get squeezed


----------



## martowl

BobMiles said:


> Community training insights have just been released on movescount.com
> No news on the spartan though.


And Training Insights are useless for me. All my races are longer than marathons. You would think with the numbers of ultra runners that use Ambits they might have something longer than a marathon especially for trail racing.


----------



## petmic

ifarlow said:


> I pointed out to Suunto on Facebook the issue with mixed imperial & metric units, and was told that the developers have been made aware of it and will fix it as soon as possible. So, yeah... there you go.


You should be happy they gave you an answer. I didn't get any - they seem to ignore all my questions lately.


----------



## petmic

I wonder if the training insights page is static or if it is being automatically updated as people store new moves.


----------



## ifarlow

Hard to say for sure, but it only makes sense to be dynamic.


----------



## zvojan

petmic said:


> I think if Suunto did shoe/gear usage tracking instead it would be a better use of the development resources.


Agree 100%. Much more useful....


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> And Training Insights are useless for me. All my races are longer than marathons. You would think with the numbers of ultra runners that use Ambits they might have something longer than a marathon especially for trail racing.


Yes it's a very limited set of conditions, wonder if they looked at the distribution of move distances and times to determine the best levels.


----------



## rdm01

petmic said:


> I wonder if the training insights page is static or if it is being automatically updated as people store new moves.


I'm completely sure it's static and the data will be updated every X days. Dynamic table with such a huge number of records is a suicide in terms of SQL performance and server load

deporteporvida.com


----------



## rdm01

zvojan said:


> Agree 100%. Much more useful....


Actually you can do that using tags but something like Strava manage your gears are better

deporteporvida.com


----------



## PTBC

rdm01 said:


> I'm completely sure it's static and the data will be updated every X days. Dynamic table with such a huge number of records is a suicide in terms of SQL performance and server load
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Yes, this is likely pre-processed consolidated data, it's not going to be a dynamic SQL statement, with maybe an overnight (or weekly or monthly) job to update a data cube or something in their datawarehouse etc

Playing around with a few of the settings the average age doesn't seem to change much which might say something about the average movescount user


----------



## JimmyKane

Reminds me in a different way the insights.strava.com

I wont use it I suppose that much but its interesting to see some aggregated data from all users across the movescount database. 

At least I learned some stuff today, or more or less validated them.


----------



## austrian001

Orange is my ambit3 and shows correct way. 
my SSU is completely wrong 









i know it's a known bug - just wanted to show accuracy example


----------



## austrian001

...double...


----------



## gimegime

petmic said:


> Yeah, i know that...but i am not happy with it. It requires me to remember what shoes i used, edit every single move after sync and then select tag to see the mileage. These days, when even fridges have more computing power than Apollo spacecrafts had i would kind of expect more user friendly solution. Is it too much?
> 
> Few years ago i used Polar RS400 with Polar Pro Trainer 5 windows SW. That was state of the art solution comparing to what is on market now. I just dont get why SW is so limited in functions and has so many bugs these days.


How else do you expect gear tracking to work? I am curious.

I have never used the tagging in Movescount, but in Strava it works like this in that you need to edit your activity to select the shoes/bike you use. The difference being it has a default setting automatically selected. It's limited to only bikes and shoes so selecting other equipment will be useful to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## petmic

gimegime said:


> How else do you expect gear tracking to work? I am curious.
> 
> I have never used the tagging in Movescount, but in Strava it works like this in that you need to edit your activity to select the shoes/bike you use. The difference being it has a default setting automatically selected. It's limited to only bikes and shoes so selecting other equipment will be useful to me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, they can do it in the same way as Polar did 15 years ago - one could select which shoes are used when starting (or finishing) an exercise in the watch.


----------



## PTBC

gimegime said:


> How else do you expect gear tracking to work? I am curious.
> 
> I have never used the tagging in Movescount, but in Strava it works like this in that you need to edit your activity to select the shoes/bike you use. The difference being it has a default setting automatically selected. It's limited to only bikes and shoes so selecting other equipment will be useful to me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think the point here is 'default' as it's easier to manage by exception rather than having to actively select, would be even more useful if you could link activities to gear so the default shoes for Trail Running were different from Running activity and from Hiking etc.


----------



## gimegime

PTBC said:


> I think the point here is 'default' as it's easier to manage by exception rather than having to actively select, would be even more useful if you could link activities to gear so the default shoes for Trail Running were different from Running activity and from Hiking etc.


I agree. That's why I mentioned it. Strava is limited though. For example it would be good if I could track different wheels I swap around on my bikes.

Not sure exactly how Garmin does it other than not on the watch but after the upload in Garmin Connect.

Definitely could be done better in Movescount though

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JimmyKane

Don't forget that Strava only supports shoes for running.
I use the same shoes for hikking/walking/other and there I cannot select any equipment at all. 

Regarding the conversation about the old polar trainers I totally agree. It's like everything took 2 steps back in order to go 1 forward.


----------



## PTBC

Desktop just updated Suuntolink, it's showing version 2.1.44 release 2289

Release notes


Minimum battery charge requirement for device software update lowered to 15%
Spartan Satellite Orbit data can be updated without connecting the device to Movescount
To improve reliability, in case an error appears while updating the firmware of the device, watch recovery uses the same firmware version as the current one in the device and will then propose update to newest version available
Watch is now detected when Suuntolink is launched automatically


----------



## johan6504

PTBC said:


> Desktop just updated Suuntolink, it's showing version 2.1.44 release 2289
> 
> Release notes
> 
> 
> Minimum battery charge requirement for device software update lowered to 15%
> Spartan Satellite Orbit data can be updated without connecting the device to Movescount
> To improve reliability, in case an error appears while updating the firmware of the device, watch recovery uses the same firmware version as the current one in the device and will then propose update to newest version available
> Watch is now detected when Suuntolink is launched automatically


A word of caution.
When my PC upgraded SuuntoLink to this version my 3 day old Spartan Ultra Copper got "bricked". It got stuck in an endless upgrade loop and needs to back to Finland, Again! This is my third SSU since august...


----------



## martowl

gimegime said:


> How else do you expect gear tracking to work? I am curious.
> 
> I have never used the tagging in Movescount, but in Strava it works like this in that you need to edit your activity to select the shoes/bike you use. The difference being it has a default setting automatically selected. It's limited to only bikes and shoes so selecting other equipment will be useful to me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I find the tagging quite useful, I tag the gear I use including watches, shoes, hydration packs, and the routes as well as races. It is very easy to get totals. I would like a search function that would organize a bit better because if there are a lot of moves, the list can be long. The advantage of tags is the flexibility and selection of multiple tags at once.


----------



## PTBC

GPS fix had better come soon, right now watch is totally unsuable for running, did a trail run on a marked service road/trail so know I did 5k, SSU recorded 4.7 and the track doesn't actually cover any of the trail I was on, either its offset or veering from one side to the other, it doesn't even have the right start and end points or turn around points. I'm starting to wonder if it's even using GPS at this point or just using compass and sensors.
That was the second really bad track where it was raining, if it doesnt work in the rain I may as well return it.


----------



## Jaka83

I had my first "bad GPS track" this Friday. Most of the track looks fine, but once I got into the narrow valley with steep slopes on both sides, the GPS was off by a lot.
Jaka_Jese's 2:44 h Hiking Move

I was hiking on the road and on the way up the watch tracked me in the forest to the left of the road. I stopped at the hairpin and had my lunch (18 min stop) - I paused the watch - then turned around and backtracked. I paused and resumed at the exact same spot (at the track checkpoint pole), but the watch missed the marker. It lost "good signal" somewhere inside the valley and then at the 18 min pause somehow regained accuracy and tracked me correctly on the way back.








Most of the track where the watch has a clear view or at least a partial view of the sky is OK.
In other moves I've noticed that it rarely goes off track even when the conditions are bad.
Tracking has been quite good for me so far, this is the first time that the watch bugged out on me regarding GPS. Then again, I've only done 26 moves with the watch (62h, 419 km, and 10527 m asc).

I'd say that my watch just had a bad day.

PS: GPS data was updated just hours before the hike.
PPS: Where is the sports mode screen customisation Suunto, I need it so I can track my heart rate during hiking too?! I was thinking of using the running sport mode for hiking, but figured that has some other metrics tracking going on or some sort of voodoo magic based on the bad reports here on the forum.


----------



## triple_a

Hi all, this is my first post to watchuseek. I have been lurking this thread for a while but I had huge problems in creating an account for myself. There was some issue with facebook redirects causing an error in all my browsers but now somehow finally I was able to create my account 

I preordered a Spartan Ultra at before it launched because I had very good experiences with Ambit 2S and Ambit 3 Peak so I assumed SSU would continue in the same vein of excellent GPS performance and I trusted Suunto's message on sport mode customization coming quickly after launch. Well, as we all know, it did not go quite as smoothly.

My first run with SSU was near my house, there is a running road that goes through the forest and I've always had perfect tracks there with Ambit 2S and 3 Peak. Imagine my horror as I synced my watch after the first run and seeing that it was a disaster. I've never had perfect GPS tracks with SSU, they've been average at best and disastrous at worst. In many cases I'm seeing offset with SSU so that my track is parallel with the road that I had been running on but shifted to the side by quite a lot. And on the disastrous tracks it looks like SSU is doing pure guesswork.

For me, the two main things I want Suunto to address with this watch are GPS performance and Sports mode customization. I'm amazed that the Sports mode customization is still not implemented. I suspect their software architecture is somehow screwed up because they mentioned "development obstacles" in their last announcement regarding the delays with the update. They might be running out of memory on their microcontroller or it may be that the current sport modes are brute force hard coded and customizable sports modes would require extensive rework of their entire software. But I'm confident that with enought time this problem has to be solvable. If they can get customizable modes running on Ambit, which has less powerful hardware, I'm sure they can get it working on SSU as well.

The GPS stuff is what worries me more. Since we don't know if it is an antenna issue or a software issue (probably a bit of both) it is very difficult to predict if they can fix it or not. I know they say it is a SW issue but they pretty much have to say it, otherwise they would have a huge uproar (even bigger than what it is now) in the community and return rates would be even higher.

So to summarize, I think the SSU is a promising platform and if they fix the two issues I mentioned, it will be a great product.


----------



## buenosbias

Jaka83 said:


> Most of the track where the watch has a clear view or at least a partial view of the sky is OK.
> In other moves I've noticed that it rarely goes off track even when the conditions are bad.


That fits with what I observed over the last weeks. The GPS performance of my Spartan Ultra is strangely unpredictable. Sometimes it gives really good data even in difficult conditions: cloud cover, tree cover, valley, etc. Sometimes it suddenly veers off, even under an open sky. Sometimes it gets back on track again, sometimes not. I'm unable to see a pattern. The Suunto engineers have something to sort out there.


----------



## bruceames

buenosbias said:


> That fits with what I observed over the last weeks. The GPS performance of my Spartan Ultra is strangely unpredictable. Sometimes it gives really good data even in difficult conditions: cloud cover, tree cover, valley, etc. Sometimes it suddenly veers off, even under an open sky. Sometimes it gets back on track again, sometimes not. I'm unable to see a pattern. The Suunto engineers have something to sort out there.


Some days the satellite positioning will be less than ideal. That's why the watch will have a "bad day". On a watch with a subpar GPS, the issue will be magnified when combined with cloud cover and/or difficult terrain.


----------



## JimmyKane

For the GPS issue. There is an offset happening to most of the cases if you watch carefully most of the tracks posted here. All other issues (related to gps) are solved in the future update. There is a field test where Suunto are trying really hard with a lot of testers to fix this offset. Keep your fingers crossed.


----------



## prunner

hi,my first post here...
Did a trail run for 10 hours yesterday with my SSU, and the HR just stopped recording after exactly 6 hours (see image)
(battery in HR sensor is ok, checked today)
Have you seen this happen?


----------



## JimmyKane

prunner said:


> hi,my first post here...
> Did a trail run for 10 hours yesterday with my SSU, and the HR just stopped recording after exactly 6 hours (see image)
> (battery in HR sensor is ok, checked today)
> Have you seen this happen?
> 
> View attachment 9853378


Yes a lot of times has been mentioned here


----------



## prunner

ok, then we all wait for the bug fix


----------



## JimmyKane

Another thing related to the GPS performance that I noticed, it is affected by the side and where the watch is looking at. Take a look at this:









Greenish is left hand wearing the watch and redish wearing it on the right hand.

Did the following test:


Bike Left Hand: JimmyKane's 0:01 h Cycling Move
Bike Right Hand: JimmyKane's 0:01 h Cycling Move
Run Left Hand: JimmyKane's 0:01 h Running Move
Run Right Hand: JimmyKane's 0:01 h Running Move
Run Holding it Center: JimmyKane's 0:01 h Running Move
Comparison on online tool: MyGPSFiles

Funny part is that I was just running/biking at the most right side of the road

Thoughts?


----------



## JimmyKane

By the way for poeple here bored to check the Comparison online here is a pick with the offsets I talked about. All done with the same route and top precision (had to watch even my steps).









Take a look above and please share your thoughts.


----------



## buenosbias

JimmyKane said:


> Thoughts?


Did you go from left to right? Or right to left?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

This is also well known to happen, and it happens with all GPS watches (at least from Suunto, but I'd assume also other brands)


----------



## gousias

Any improvements on activity tracking ("ghost steps" issues 24/7, lack of history recording, no step or calories info uploading to Movescount and therefore no posibility for comparison, every midnight step counting resets and there is no way to see what achieved previously, ) ?
Another question, while mountain running, is it possible to know through SSU how much climbing has been done?
Here is a review of SSU and I am standing on especially on the interval training. Does anyone had these issues and any improvement? Also, are there any changes on iOS notifications (any way to get back to a passing notification) ?


----------



## rdm01

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> This is also well known to happen, and it happens with all GPS watches (at least from Suunto, but I'd assume also other brands)


Actually there are some GPS watches out there where you can set up the hand you are wearing it in the watch settings (ie. Polar V800, Fenix 3...). I heard they correct on the fly the raw GPS data trying to reduce the body interferences.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Jaka83

gousias said:


> Any improvements on activity tracking ("ghost steps" issues 24/7, lack of history recording, no step or calories info uploading to Movescount and therefore no posibility for comparison, every midnight step counting resets and there is no way to see what achieved previously, ) ?


No improvements yet.



gousias said:


> Another question, while mountain running, is it possible to know through SSU how much climbing has been done?


Maybe use a sport mode that shows asc/dsc instead of default one. There's still no way to change default screens in sport modes.



gousias said:


> Here is a review of SSU and I am standing on especially on the interval training. Does anyone had these issues and any improvement?


There is no interval training yet.



gousias said:


> Also, are there any changes on iOS notifications (any way to get back to a passing notification) ?


No changes on iOS or Android ... still can't interact with notifications and nowhere to check past notifications.


----------



## JimmyKane

rdm01 said:


> Actually there are some GPS watches out there where you can set up the hand you are wearing it in the watch settings (ie. Polar V800, Fenix 3...). I heard they correct on the fly the raw GPS data trying to reduce the body interferences.
> 
> deporteporvida.com


And the polar m400. Let's hope that they can solve it this way. Other than that I can say the GPS accuracy is vastly improved at least for me


----------



## Hecke

I also did some hand change test. Surprisingly, wearing the watch at the right hand produced an almost good track, whereas the left hand (the one I usually wear the watch) totally screwed the track. See the track from 5.5k on(the wtach regains it around 9.3k):
hecke's 0:57 h Trail running Move
Here's the good one: (right hand)
hecke's 1:38 h Trail running Move
Of course, there were differences in the weather, rain in the bad move, only cloud cover in the good move. The look northwestwards where I usually soak my watch did not get to a filled GPS-arrow, even after 20 mins, so I went around the house, so the good move presumably had a wider range of satellite positions.

What is your watch hand, and how is your GPS accuracy? Is the right hand more favorable? (Acutally, a poll would be nice here...)


----------



## Hecke

martowl said:


> All my races are longer than marathons.


I would highly appreciate insights in longer races too. But I see two points:

First, there is much less data for ultras of a particular length, even if you take the most standardized like 50m, 100k, 100m, 24h. And, as they stated for the sub 2:10 marathon, looking at very few data points is both not statistically meaningful and it is on the edge of giving away personal data, which we did not agree upon.

Second, the longer the race, the more the characteristics of the race play a big role. I get it that the one marathon I run every year, which includes quite a hill, 1100m of elevation gain, is another thing than a flat road race. But such marathons are rather rare, and will not compromise the data on marathons in the movescount database. Looking at 50mile races, there are much more trail/mountain races relatively speaking. So the data would combine a mix of all 50mile races, be it in the Alps or flat, be it on technical trail or plain road. If you then split the data according to the characteristics (which is not possible without major research on what races the people actually did) you get even sparser data, again compromising the big data approach.

All in all I am curious, what requirement they took to consider a move a user did as a marathon race (or whatever other race). Only those that are tagged race? All runs that are approximately a marathon long? How big is the margin? All the more as we know how varying the GPS measurement can be. Or people (like me) tending to forget to stop the watch at the finish line...
I bet for the vast majority of Suunto users, any marathon length run will be a race. But there are people out there, and in here, who run such length every other weekend for training. (Currently I don't, but I want to get back there...). Does that mean that the 5hour training run of 42k will be interpreted as marathon race, and all users asking for how to train for a 5h marathon will be advised to run a 5h marathon every other week as preparation? I know that the number of ultra runners is still much lower than the marathoners, but every year, more people take the dive into longer distances and will thereby be contributing to Suunto's data base...


----------



## PTBC

Hecke said:


> there were differences in the weather, rain in the bad move, only cloud cover in the good move


I have a couple of moves in the rain that are really bad, I expect some performance issues due to weather, but if it's as bad as it has been in the rain I need to rethink my purchase as the pacific northwest isn't exactly known for it's great weather.


----------



## PTBC

Did a track run, figured it can't get that too wrong. Results were interesting as I inadvertanly ended move at end of first 2km then did a subsequent 4km move

For first move lap points (manual press) and km autolap markers were nicely clustered as the track was approx. 1/3rd km, for the second move the km autolaps markers steadily drifted from the clustered manual laps, i ran until the final km autolap came up just to see where it would read. The first section veered a bit before settling which makes me think it's reporting GPS lock too early or it struggles until you start moving.

In terms of offset and hand comments the watch was on the left (inner side of the track) and apart from the first 100mtrs or so there was no obvious offset to the inside of the track.

Move 1








Move 2


----------



## JimmyKane

PTBC said:


> Did a track run, figured it can't get that too wrong. Results were interesting as I inadvertanly ended move at end of first 2km then did a subsequent 4km move
> 
> For first move lap points (manual press) and km autolap markers were nicely clustered as the track was approx. 1/3rd km, for the second move the km autolaps markers steadily drifted from the clustered manual laps, i ran until the final km autolap came up just to see where it would read. The first section veered a bit before settling which makes me think it's reporting GPS lock too early or it struggles until you start moving.
> 
> In terms of offset and hand comments the watch was on the left (inner side of the track) and apart from the first 100mtrs or so there was no obvious offset to the inside of the track.
> 
> Move 1
> View attachment 9863154
> 
> 
> Move 2
> View attachment 9863162


the first time I saw the offset was not left or right. It was just infront or on the back (start/end). We are on x,y eh!


----------



## martowl

Hecke said:


> I would highly appreciate insights in longer races too. But I see two points:
> 
> First, there is much less data for ultras of a particular length, even if you take the most standardized like 50m, 100k, 100m, 24h. And, as they stated for the sub 2:10 marathon, looking at very few data points is both not statistically meaningful and it is on the edge of giving away personal data, which we did not agree upon.
> 
> Second, the longer the race, the more the characteristics of the race play a big role. I get it that the one marathon I run every year, which includes quite a hill, 1100m of elevation gain, is another thing than a flat road race. But such marathons are rather rare, and will not compromise the data on marathons in the movescount database. Looking at 50mile races, there are much more trail/mountain races relatively speaking. So the data would combine a mix of all 50mile races, be it in the Alps or flat, be it on technical trail or plain road. If you then split the data according to the characteristics (which is not possible without major research on what races the people actually did) you get even sparser data, again compromising the big data approach.
> 
> All in all I am curious, what requirement they took to consider a move a user did as a marathon race (or whatever other race). Only those that are tagged race? All runs that are approximately a marathon long? How big is the margin? All the more as we know how varying the GPS measurement can be. Or people (like me) tending to forget to stop the watch at the finish line...
> I bet for the vast majority of Suunto users, any marathon length run will be a race. But there are people out there, and in here, who run such length every other weekend for training. (Currently I don't, but I want to get back there...). Does that mean that the 5hour training run of 42k will be interpreted as marathon race, and all users asking for how to train for a 5h marathon will be advised to run a 5h marathon every other week as preparation? I know that the number of ultra runners is still much lower than the marathoners, but every year, more people take the dive into longer distances and will thereby be contributing to Suunto's data base...


For the first point, I am not convinced this is true and if not enough data were available for age group splits it would still be useful.

For the second, most of the trail races tend to have reasonable altitude changes 1000 m for a 50k and 2000-5000 for a 100k. One could look at the elevation profile and get some data.

For he third, during training in the summer I often run near marathon length training runs. For ultras, I race to prepare for one efforts but I rarely if ever have a training run over 50k.


----------



## PTBC

JimmyKane said:


> the first time I saw the offset was not left or right. It was just infront or on the back (start/end). We are on x,y eh!


I've had some issues which I reported to suunto (no answer ever given) where it shows the button presses as before where they actually occurred, so ending at an intersection it was always on the wrong side of the street, manual lap markers show up as before the lap point etc.

Looking at the recording and data I sent them it would seem that the delay in saving/recording points could be the issue. If it matches the action to the last/previous good/recorded point, which given the current performance can be 6-10 seconds earlier, the points show on the map as occurring before they actually happened. It's the case above as the points mainly are slightly before I pressed the lap button as it was always done at end of seating.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

Did I miss something? I thought the newest firmware for the ultra was 1.2.4 I just hooked up my ultra to my pc to force a firmware update and it said it was going from 1.2.4 to 1.2.4.464. After the sync was complete suunto link said my watch was on v1.2.4 


I think my ultra is going back. Charging up my ambit 3 peak.


----------



## PTBC

Phoenixatdawn said:


> Did I miss something? I thought the newest firmware for the ultra was 1.2.4 I just hooked up my ultra to my pc to force a firmware update and it said it was going from 1.2.4 to 1.2.4.464. After the sync was complete suunto link said my watch was on v1.2.4
> 
> I think my ultra is going back. Charging up my ambit 3 peak.


It's a display issue, they truncate the firmware number in some places, not very consistent which can be annoying. The about setting on the watch shows the shorter number as well


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

PTBC said:


> It's a display issue, they truncate the firmware number in some places, not very consistent which can be annoying. The about setting on the watch shows the shorter number as well


Thanks PTBC


----------



## BobMiles

It got a bit quiet on the suunto side. I wonder if there'll be any news tomorrow... 
Sport mode customization is really missing!


----------



## Pegasus

I had an apology from Suunto and they understand my disappointment in an email from them but no concrete timeline on fixing the issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

BobMiles said:


> It got a bit quiet on the suunto side. I wonder if there'll be any news tomorrow...
> Sport mode customization is really missing!


There has been only one firmware update in three months, and it did not bring any functionality that I had not already assumed I would have had from day one. Once we are past all dates they had fixed for updates, and if they keep failing to deliver any firmware updates at all, then I will have to conclude the hardware is defective, the platform is being abandoned, but they are just not admitting and creating a universal return program.


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> I had an apology from Suunto and they understand my disappointment in an email from them but no concrete timeline on fixing the issues.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Two weeks after submitting a GPS related ticket I had an email last night that it had been passed to the Head Office for review, it seems like it's taking a week for them to respond to a ticket with a request for more information and then another week before they escalate it. No mention of timeframes, no mention of the fact there's a known GPS bug, they need to sort out their service desk process.
The one ticket from months ago where they finally responded with an answer that GPS wasn't set to best and nothing else and to which I replied asking for clarification and pointing out that on the watch it was set to best I've had no further reply to since (I suspect they have closed it and not reopened it), another ticket where their response made no sense and I asked for clarification has had no response either and that was weeks ago.

Frankly I have not been pleased with Suunto's customer support, I know they are facing a tough situation, but their job is not to make it worse.

And still no offer of the alleged freebie goodies...could do with a nice hat for the winter as well


----------



## bryanredneck27

Something is going on... not sure  of a universal return program... but something... the wear and tear a bad product does to a company if not handle
Properly can do a lot of damage in the long run.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

PTBC said:


> Two weeks after submitting a GPS related ticket I had an email last night that it had been passed to the Head Office for review, it seems like it's taking a week for them to respond to a ticket with a request for more information and then another week before they escalate it. No mention of timeframes, no mention of the fact there's a known GPS bug, they need to sort out their service desk process.
> The one ticket from months ago where they finally responded with an answer that GPS wasn't set to best and nothing else and to which I replied asking for clarification and pointing out that on the watch it was set to best I've had no further reply to since (I suspect they have closed it and not reopened it), another ticket where their response made no sense and I asked for clarification has had no response either and that was weeks ago.
> 
> Frankly I have not been pleased with Suunto's customer support, I know they are facing a tough situation, but their job is not to make it worse.
> 
> And still no offer of the alleged freebie goodies...could do with a nice hat for the winter as well


it took suunto 3 weeks to respond to my spartan rebooting at mile 27 of a 33 mile race. The heart rate monitor stopped reporting at mile 16. When I restarted the watch for the last part of the race it started reporting heart rate values even though I wasn't wearing the heart rate strap anymore. I will say that the gps track was good.

I did just get an email asking for my address so they could send some "goodies"


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

What are everyone's thoughts on what the spartan ultra will look like if and when Suunto gets all the bugs fixed and includes all the promised features? Let's assume that the gps works as it's supposed. Again gps aside, will the spartan ultra be on par with the fénix 3 in terms of functions. Or will suunto just always be a little bit behind curve in that respect ?


----------



## krazyeone

I own an A3Peak and a Garmin 920xt, to be honest from functionality point of view Garmin is far superior to Suunto , training , laps , virtual partner , etc etc

Movescount app is also an bad joke compared to Garmin Connect

Don't get me wrong, I love my A3P, but there are alot of things missing
Fenix 3 its a great watch , maybe they have to much functionalities ...but if they will release an better gps antena and they will kill bugs...it will be an killer

Also I checked , Suunto has 400 employes and Garmin 10000 ...


----------



## PTBC

Phoenixatdawn said:


> it took suunto 3 weeks to respond to my spartan rebooting at mile 27 of a 33 mile race. The heart rate monitor stopped reporting at mile 16. When I restarted the watch for the last part of the race it started reporting heart rate values even though I wasn't wearing the heart rate strap anymore. I will say that the gps track was good.
> 
> I did just get an email asking for my address so they could send some "goodies"


Inconsistent service response and silence are not good ways to deal with a crisis, that maybe too strong a word for Suunto in general, but can be applied to the Spartan Ultra right now. Last time I looked even the 'we found a GPS bug' announcement wasn't on the website anymore, they should have sent that to every registered Spartan owner, I certainly haven't had any direct communication from them on GPS bugs let alone acknowledgment in a ticket response.


----------



## PTBC

Phoenixatdawn said:


> What are everyone's thoughts on what the spartan ultra will look like if and when Suunto gets all the bugs fixed and includes all the promised features? Let's assume that the gps works as it's supposed. Again gps aside, will the spartan ultra be on par with the fénix 3 in terms of functions. Or will suunto just always be a little bit behind curve in that respect ?


Interesting question, one thing I didn't like when I looked at the Fenix was it seemed too cluttered, I do like elements of the simplicity of the Spartan and it's overall design and would be more thna happy if it didn't replicate everything Garmin did, that said there's major functionality missing.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

PTBC said:


> Interesting question, one thing I didn't like when I looked at the Fenix was it seemed too cluttered, I do like elements of the simplicity of the Spartan and it's overall design and would be more thna happy if it didn't replicate everything Garmin did, that said there's major functionality missing.


I really appreciate the simplicity of the spartan, like I do with the 3 peak and the spartan is such a great looking watch. Suunto better do something fast. If garmin releases a fénix 4 in January it's going to be harder and harder for Suunto to tread water


----------



## johan6504

Now we know why Suunot released Spartan Ultra too early...
https://appelmoessite.wordpress.com/2016/11/08/the-new-fenix-5-and-5s/

If this has a good GPS and the basics in order, Suunto Spartan Ultra is gone!


----------



## LONG_HAUL

johan6504 said:


> Now we know why Suunot released Spartan Ultra too early...
> https://appelmoessite.wordpress.com/2016/11/08/the-new-fenix-5-and-5s/
> 
> If this has a good GPS and the basics in order, Suunto Spartan Ultra is gone!


But that doesn't explain why Suunto released the Ultra WHEN they did, and does not explain why they are not rolling out updates in months. I no longer think this is about what competitors are doing. Suunto's worst enemy is Suunto themselves.


----------



## PTBC

johan6504 said:


> Now we know why Suunot released Spartan Ultra too early...
> https://appelmoessite.wordpress.com/2016/11/08/the-new-fenix-5-and-5s/
> 
> If this has a good GPS and the basics in order, Suunto Spartan Ultra is gone!


If it's more of an iteration/slight upgrade from their existing model you would hope it's not plagued with issues than introducing a totally new platform would and GPS will be at least what Fenix 3 is capable of

Wonder if it was leaked early to capitalise on Spartan woes, discount existing models for holiday season with new device out just after makes Spartan a hard sell


----------



## BobMiles

I can totally understand anyone who returns his SSU. It's not about not delivering updates. It's about selling a more than unfinished product and then not being straight about it.
To me, it was no surprise that the updates got delayed. I was actually quite flashed when the first updates were on point.
However, I still believe the Spartan will be what we'd expected it to be. A reliable evolution of the ambit 3. But it's going to take a while, that's for sure!
A process that, in my opinion, is not worth the money right now.


----------



## ifarlow

johan6504 said:


> https://appelmoessite.wordpress.com/2016/11/08/the-new-fenix-5-and-5s/


I posted this blog link on Garmin's forums about 10 minutes ago and I included a couple of the pictures and a blurb of text from the blog entry. I just checked... my post has been deleted. I take that as confirmation that the pictures and details on the blog are legit, so the unveiling might be soon.


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

johan6504 said:


> Now we know why Suunot released Spartan Ultra too early...
> https://appelmoessite.wordpress.com/2016/11/08/the-new-fenix-5-and-5s/
> 
> If this has a good GPS and the basics in order, Suunto Spartan Ultra is gone!


Wow! Is that from a reputable source?


----------



## PTBC

BobMiles said:


> I can totally understand anyone who returns his SSU. It's not about not delivering updates. It's about selling a more than unfinished product and then not being straight about it.
> To me, it was no surprise that the updates got delayed. I was actually quite flashed when the first updates were on point.
> However, I still believe the Spartan will be what we'd expected it to be. A reliable evolution of the ambit 3. But it's going to take a while, that's for sure!
> A process that, in my opinion, is not worth the money right now.


Agree their customer service and marketing/sales response to the issues is not helping them and any first mover advantage they had will be lost as by the time it's even remotely fixed it looks like the new Garmin will be out if the rumors are credible, combined with the likelihood that Fenix 3 could be discounted (they dropped price briefly at time of Spartan launch after all) that's a difficult market.


----------



## 604

From those pictures, it doesn't seem to have much new other than minimal hardware changes and a different ui font… If that's it, I think Suunto will have a good chance to catch up with the Spartan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Phoenixatdawn

604 said:


> From those pictures, it doesn't seem to have much new other than minimal hardware changes and a different ui font&#8230; If that's it, I think Suunto will have a good chance to catch up with the Spartan.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The article mentioned a new gps antenna, if it improves the gps issues of the fénix line I think it'll be very hard for Suunto to catch up. The new model without the front screws is a huge aesthetic improvement too.


----------



## 604

Phoenixatdawn said:


> The article mentioned a new gps antenna, if it improves the gps issues of the fénix line I think it'll be very hard for Suunto to catch up. The new model without the front screws is a huge aesthetic improvement too.


If both would provide the same gps accuracy, I still think the spartan has a better UI, IMO. At least comparing what the Spartan is expected to be once sport customization is live vs what can be seen on those Fénix shots.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mercuir0

what's really bad is that i don't think the gps problem will be solved soon... in their beta versions they upgraded the gps firmware but at least on my spartan the recordet tracks keep beeing better than ambit3 for cycling (watchface sees clear sky) and horrible in any other case (easily 30 m off in random directions)... also the number of new features they have in the newest version is negligible...

so if you're considering to return the watch and you still can do so, i strongly recommend to do so!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## JimmyKane

mercuir0 said:


> what's really bad is that i don't think the gps problem will be solved soon... in their beta versions they upgraded the gps firmware but at least on my spartan the recordet tracks keep beeing better than ambit3 for cycling (watchface sees clear sky) and horrible in any other case (easily 30 m off in random directions)... also the number of new features they have in the newest version is negligible...
> 
> so if you're considering to return the watch and you still can do so, i strongly recommend to do so!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


What are the new features?


----------



## Unperson

LONG_HAUL said:


> There has been only one firmware update in three months, and it did not bring any functionality that I had not already assumed I would have had from day one. Once we are past all dates they had fixed for updates, and if they keep failing to deliver any firmware updates at all, then I will have to conclude the hardware is defective, the platform is being abandoned, but they are just not admitting and creating a universal return program.


Since Suunto launched Ultra, Sport and Trainer versions of their Spartan series it definitely looks like they are not abandoning this platform, they are moving everything to it.

I really hate all the delays (my question on setting distance as a target got answered with: that's part of sport mode customisation) but Suunto appears to be full-in on the Spartan platform. Which is good news in itself but it does mean that software for all of their watch series (expensive, really expensive, really very expensive) needs to be rewritten. That is, apparently, taking more time than anticipated.

I only wished they'd get their priorities straight. No-one who's out on a mountain with a Spartan gives a damn about watch face colours, they want trackback and waypoint functionality.


----------



## Pegasus

I would definitely dump the watch now but can't return as I bought from an authorised seller and not Suunto direct.

I know the Garmin has its problems but it has some functionality to it, perhaps Suunto took the Spartan name too literally!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BobMiles

I'm still hoping for news from suunto today or maybe tomorrow. 
The Android movescount app unfortunately is as buggy as before. Sync and notifications are only working for a short period after a reboot of my Huawei P8. Seems like they make the same mistakes over and over again.


----------



## petmic

BobMiles said:


> I'm still hoping for news from suunto today or maybe tomorrow.
> The Android movescount app unfortunately is as buggy as before. Sync and notifications are only working for a short period after a reboot of my Huawei P8. Seems like they make the same mistakes over and over again.


I think their Android developers do not understand where the fault is...and they just keep trying to improve it. I doubt the app will ever be reliable.


----------



## BobMiles

petmic said:


> I think their Android developers do not understand where the fault is...and they just keep trying to improve it. I doubt the app will ever be reliable.


I agree. There is some fundamental error in their concept and they need someone to point that out to them. They should hire an expert to help them out of this misery.


----------



## JimmyKane

petmic said:


> I think their Android developers do not understand where the fault is...and they just keep trying to improve it. I doubt the app will ever be reliable.


Actually no. They have rewritten the stack. In android all BLE apps have a huge problem. I used to work on that sector. 
In IOS all devices have one driver and apps can utilize that. In android this is problematic as each manifacturer provides it's own drivers in an attempt to follow the BLE protocol. 
As you can imagine 'follow' is far from reality. That makes developers waiting to find by try and fail the quirks of each device.


----------



## JimmyKane

Here FYI from the TrainerRoad Android support:

I am quoting:

"Here's an example of a bug: Samsung S7 phones sold in Europe (but not the US) had a different chipset that caused an issue. We fixed that but that's just one example.Here's how we're mitigating these factors:
- We've got a solid human test team with 25 Android devices
- We use a remote test cloud that allows us to run automated tests on REAL Android devices in just about what ever flavor we choose
Still though, we support over 9000 Android devices&#8230;which is a lot! Now we're just going to be super diligent about fixing issues as quickly as possible.
The other good news is this isn't our first rodeo with Bluetooth Smart or ANT. I'd argue that we're one of, if not the most experienced companies with both ANT and Bluetooth Smart support.
We do a lot of "non-standard" stuff to make this all work . Now let's hope this all goes smooth and I don't have to eat my words! "


----------



## petmic

JimmyKane said:


> Actually no. They have rewritten the stack. In android all BLE apps have a huge problem. I used to work on that sector.
> In IOS all devices have one driver and apps can utilize that. In android this is problematic as each manifacturer provides it's own drivers in an attempt to follow the BLE protocol.
> As you can imagine 'follow' is far from reality. That makes developers waiting to find by try and fail the quirks of each device.


So how come that Garmin Connect on android is 99% reliable with my wife's FR220 and was with my Fenix when i had it? This was tested on 4 different mobile phones. The movescount does not work on any of them - it simply does not pair with the watch!!


----------



## JimmyKane

petmic said:


> So how come that Garmin Connect on android is 99% reliable with my wife's FR220 and was with my Fenix when i had it? This was tested on 4 different mobile phones. The movescount does not work on any of them - it simply does not pair with the watch!!


If it was 99% reliable it would not have such a bad rating on Playstore. My nexus 5x with Android 7.1 and my GF's HTC Desire Android 5.0 works great with Movescount notifications etc. That does not mean that I have now to go tell everybody that it works 99% great.


----------



## Pegasus

Doesn't look like news anytime soon, just had another email, basically saying please be patient but nothing sounded imminent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zabanya

It seems that Suunto is not responding to emails and inquiries as fast as before, sent them a message last November 1 and they haven't replied. Patiently waiting everyday for any update, perhaps tomorrow. Personally I want any update to the watch. Hopefully they release the "11/2016" update asap.


----------



## petmic

JimmyKane said:


> If it was 99% reliable it would not have such a bad rating on Playstore. My nexus 5x with Android 7.1 and my GF's HTC Desire Android 5.0 works great with Movescount notifications etc. That does not mean that I have now to go tell everybody that it works 99% great.


Well, the issue here is Suunto is advertising Ambit3 as a watch with "Customize and sync on the go" feature and "Notification on the watch". So one would expect these features actually work! However, the reality is that these feature work only for very few people and it seems even if they work they are not reliable. In my humble opinion Suunto's website is misleading. They should really be honest and say in big letters these features do not work well for most mobile phone models so people deciding about Ambit/Spartan/Traverse are aware of issues before they pay for Suunto's product.


----------



## JimmyKane

petmic said:


> Well, the issue here is Suunto is advertising Ambit3 as a watch with "Customize and sync on the go" feature and "Notification on the watch". So one would expect these features actually work! However, the reality is that these feature work only for very few people and it seems even if they work they are not reliable. In my humble opinion Suunto's website is misleading. They should really be honest and say in big letters these features do not work well for most mobile phone models so people deciding about Ambit/Spartan/Traverse are aware of issues before they pay for Suunto's product.


In a way you are correct but I don't think they would put up big banners like: We are not sure if it works for you. If you take a look at the facebook page and at DCRainmaikers comments these things work for a lot, but as you said not all. We don't know the percentage and we will never if a poll is not submitted.


----------



## freej

Agree, i guess for many it just works. Movescount/notifications work flawless on my traverse in combination with android phone. Never mananged to get germin connect reliably (fenix2 - and i had 3 of them because they were so very reliable)


----------



## PTBC

petmic said:


> Well, the issue here is Suunto is advertising Ambit3 as a watch with "Customize and sync on the go" feature and "Notification on the watch". So one would expect these features actually work! However, the reality is that these feature work only for very few people and it seems even if they work they are not reliable. In my humble opinion Suunto's website is misleading. They should really be honest and say in big letters these features do not work well for most mobile phone models so people deciding about Ambit/Spartan/Traverse are aware of issues before they pay for Suunto's product.


Some form of known compatibility table (as they did for Spartan update) wouldn't hurt as it sounds like it's not a similar issue and a bullet point is never going to be satisfactory


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> I would definitely dump the watch now but can't return as I bought from an authorised seller and not Suunto direct.
> 
> I know the Garmin has its problems but it has some functionality to it, perhaps Suunto took the Spartan name too literally!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I might have gotten a little sarcastic in my last support ticket when I brought up issues with performance in the rain and I added that perhaps Spartan Ultra wasn't the most appropriate name for a watch that doesn't like bad weather.......


----------



## BobMiles

Sorry, I don't see that this is all just because of the cluttered Android hardware. 
Firstly, the app is a massive 55MB, with almost no features. To me, that looks like a sloppy programming style right away. Then, force stopping the suunto connectivity service always makes sync work again (once). They had the exact same issues with the Ambit3 (on all of my cellphones). And after ages, they managed to solve it, or at least get it running to a degree that is bearable. 
Now where is all their lessons learned? Not even talking about the watch firmware. 
They might have redone much of the Bluetooth stuff, but they were not successful. Now if I was suunto, I'd try and cooperate with a company specialised in such areas and acknowledge that suunto can't solve it on their own.


----------



## oli70

no problems for me with android app and samsung s7. theres no need for notifications for me, just want to have a sport watch. sold my ambit 3 peak some weeks ago and dont regret it at all. i think suunto will fix the software, just a matter of time.


----------



## krazyeone

you paid 800 eur just to have an sport watch?


----------



## JimmyKane

By the way you can now import .fit files. Just go to a move and there should be this option to import a move








Now enjoy.

Keep in mind that people that did not use Movescount can now somehow have a taste of it (like it or not). 
Combine this with the insights, maybe there will be some added value as well


----------



## oli70

krazyeone said:


> you paid 800 eur just to have an sport watch?


i paid 680 swiss francs and i think thats ok for this watch. still think the watch has quite good potential. and i just love the design and the brilliant screen.


----------



## PTBC

JimmyKane said:


> By the way you can now import .fit files. Just go to a move and there should be this option to import a move
> View attachment 9881466
> 
> 
> Now enjoy.
> 
> Keep in mind that people that did not use Movescount can now somehow have a taste of it (like it or not).
> Combine this with the insights, maybe there will be some added value as well


Right now I've gone the other way and started using strava as it's much easier for analysis and comparatives on runs, Movescount needs to develop if they want people to use it, though I do appreciate they aren't locking people to the platform.


----------



## thyokel

JimmyKane said:


> By the way you can now import .fit files. Just go to a move and there should be this option to import a move
> 
> Now enjoy.
> 
> Keep in mind that people that did not use Movescount can now somehow have a taste of it (like it or not).
> Combine this with the insights, maybe there will be some added value as well


All moves will be sync to movescount, and it looks great. Except I have to agree that movescount apps really need to rebuild LOL. Suunto sync moves over to Strava also.


----------



## thyokel

oli70 said:


> i paid 680 swiss francs and i think thats ok for this watch. still think the watch has quite good potential. and i just love the design and the brilliant screen.


agree, cheers. enjoy the watch.


----------



## JimmyKane

Autopause is now live in SSU sport settings... and it does not work yet


----------



## BobMiles

JimmyKane said:


> Autopause is now live in SSU sport settings... and it's gone....


At least it seems there might be news soon!


----------



## ifarlow

I just noticed that the Spartan product page has changed slightly, and silently. It used to highlight that a version of the Sport was coming with optical HR before Christmas. Now, there is no mention of an optical HR version of the Sport at all. Add that to the list of missed targets.


----------



## BobMiles

There will be a watch update with GPS and HR improvements today. Suunto spartan gets stronger page has been updated.


----------



## JimmyKane

BobMiles said:


> There will be a watch update with GPS and HR improvements today. Suunto spartan gets stronger page has been updated.


Tadan most issues like cadence and HR solved:



> 10TH NOVEMBER UPDATE: GPS ENHANCEMENTS, IMPROVED HR TRACKING CONSISTENCY, AND ENHANCED SPORTS EXPERIENCESpartan Ultra & Spartan Sport watch firmware release 1.4.6*Improvements*
> 
> 
> A fix to GPS signal filtering, reducing the number of cases with large location offsets in GPS tracking experienced by some users.
> Move data compressed to fit show more workouts in logbook on watch
> Improved quality of running cadence measured from wrist by removing unreal spikes and drops
> Fixes made to avoid unnecessary watch resets during firmware update
> *New features*
> 
> 
> Autopause feature pauses the exercise when speed is close to zero. This feature can be found in exercise options in the watch, or in sport mode setting in Movescount.com.
> Training load duration is now shown more accurately, using one minute resolution.
> New week summary view for steps on left side of daily activity view
> *Bug fixes*
> 
> 
> More consistent HR tracking during workouts. This fix addresses the occurrence of a flat-line in HR tracking affecting some users.
> Compass declination setting is no longer lost after syncing with Movescount
> Recovery time is now calculated accurately
> Swimming distance differed from Movescount summary
> Triathlon transition view did not appear
> Cycling power was not found during triathlon cycling leg
> Altitude was flat in Triathlon move
> Altitude not shown any more in outdoor swimming
> Fixed crash when navigating during running move
> Stopwatch shows reset button even when stopwatch time count is already zero
> Move type was not stored in Move
> *Known issues*
> 
> 
> Cycling power with intervals multisport causes UI to loose colors until refreshed by scrolling
> Altitude is still shown in outdoor swimming


----------



## edit0r

Open a new thread @JimmyKane !

Later edit : to talk about the new firmware


Later edit 2 : Nevermind, @np31 did it already, thank you !


----------



## JimmyKane

edit0r said:


> Open a new thread @JimmyKane !
> 
> Later edit : to talk about the new firmware
> 
> Later edit 2 : Nevermind, @np31 did it already, thank you !


Damn and I was just writting it. good I refreshed this page.


----------



## petmic

Hmm...Sport mode customization is not in the Coming soon section...that's weird, one would expect this must be near completion since they planned to release it last month. It would be a miracle if they finish it before Xmas.


----------



## Pegasus

Just looked on the Spartan gets stronger site and they have added an extra year to the Spartan warranty so you gets 3 years from date of purchase now which is pretty good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hecke

Hey, anyone can give the link to the new thread to a search engine impaired?
Thanks
Hecke


----------



## oli70

Hecke said:


> Hey, anyone can give the link to the new thread to a search engine impaired?
> Thanks
> Hecke


https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-firmware-update-1-4-6-2016-11-10-a-3747698.html


----------



## Hecke

oli70 said:


> https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/suunto-spartan-firmware-update-1-4-6-2016-11-10-a-3747698.html


Thanks a ton. 
Hecke (still puzzled why he couldn't find it...)


----------



## jimmysalvo

https://the5krunner.com/2016/11/01/suunto-suuntospartan-trainer-optical-hr-fcc-filing/

The antenna bump is back


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

jimmysalvo said:


> https://the5krunner.com/2016/11/01/suunto-suuntospartan-trainer-optical-hr-fcc-filing/
> 
> The antenna bump is back


Please don't re-open that can of worms until weactually know something; there'd already been enough comments á "Suuntomust have seen the light and gone back" (as if they developed productswithin weeks)


----------



## nebri

JimmyKane said:


> By the way you can now import .fit files. Just go to a move and there should be this option to import a move
> View attachment 9881466
> 
> 
> Now enjoy.
> 
> Keep in mind that people that did not use Movescount can now somehow have a taste of it (like it or not).
> Combine this with the insights, maybe there will be some added value as well


Import .fit file is gone. *Import move* option was removed today.


----------



## PTBC

Other than the update details I also spotted this about changing their communication on progress. Based on this are we are likely to see sports mode customisation before the end of the year, given 'coming soon' few weeks puts us into mid-December. Not strictly related to update so kept it in this thread instead

"We have also updated the way we share our development roadmap to show you what we are working on and how it is progressing. More specifically, we have updated our priorities into categories based on  proximity to release. Coming soon means that a particular feature or functionality is nearing completion and our expectation is to release it, pending final validation, within the next few weeks. Our work on sport mode customization is making good progress and its completion remains a top priority.

*Coming soon*


Progress Tool and Personal Bests on Suunto movescount.com 
Transfer training plans to Spartan and follow your progress 
Graphs for heart rate, speed and altitude 
New ways to import your training data to Suunto Movescount.com from other sports services 
 *In development*


Sport mode customization 
Points of Interest in navigation 
Progress Trend Graph 
Altitude and barometric trends in Suunto Spartan Ultra 
Offline synchronization of your Moves 
Rest & Recovery 
Interval training support 
Performance and recovery analysis on the watch 
Route altitude profile navigation 
Move comparison on Suunto movescount.com"


----------



## PTBC

nebri said:


> Import .fit file is gone. *Import move* option was removed today.


See 'coming soon' above looks like they pulled it for additional work


----------



## krazyeone

PTBC said:


> See 'coming soon' above looks like they pulled it for additional work


For example I have import two moves, one was uploaded in 1989 
Besides that, it looked great


----------



## zvojan

krazyeone said:


> For example I have import two moves, one was uploaded in 1989
> Besides that, it looked great


year 1989 means that data field is null for program. Probably bug


----------



## krazyeone

zvojan said:


> year 1989 means that data field is null for program. Probably bug


yes but strange thing, after I uploaded to Movescount it was transfered to Strava (it was already there ) with corect date


----------



## ifarlow

I uploaded two FIT files from Garmin into Movescount and both worked just fine. *shrug*


----------



## Jaka83

What the ...?! More unneeded changes get pushed ahead of sport mode customisation?!
I know this is my personal preference, but I think the ones highlighted in red we could do without for more than a couple of updates and the ones I highlighted in green we need like yesterday.

*Coming soon*

*Progress Tool and Personal Bests on Suunto movescount.com*
*Transfer training plans to Spartan and follow your progress*
Graphs for heart rate, speed and altitude
*New ways to import your training data to Suunto Movescount.com from other sports services*

*In development*

*Sport mode customization*
*Points of Interest in navigation*
Progress Trend Graph
*Altitude and barometric trends in Suunto Spartan Ultra*
Offline synchronization of your Moves
Rest & Recovery
*Interval training support*
Performance and recovery analysis on the watch
*Route altitude profile navigation*
Move comparison on Suunto movescount.com"

I'll try to test out the BT connectivity fix with the sensors on my trainer this weekend, to see if I can finally have all three sensors connected at the same time (HR, cadence/speed and power). And I'll see what's with the GPS update and the auto pause feature.


----------



## ifarlow

PTBC said:


> Based on this are we are likely to see sports mode customisation before the end of the year, given 'coming soon' few weeks puts us into mid-December. Not strictly related to update so kept it in this thread instead


I wouldn't hold my breath for customization before the end of the year, but I'd be happy to be wrong.


----------



## PTBC

Jaka83 said:


> What the ...?! More unneeded changes get pushed ahead of sport mode customisation?!
> I know this is my personal preference, but I think the ones highlighted in red we could do without for more than a couple of updates and the ones I highlighted in green we need like yesterday.
> 
> *Coming soon*
> 
> *Progress Tool and Personal Bests on Suunto movescount.com*
> *Transfer training plans to Spartan and follow your progress*
> Graphs for heart rate, speed and altitude
> *New ways to import your training data to Suunto Movescount.com from other sports services*
> 
> *In development*
> 
> *Sport mode customization*
> *Points of Interest in navigation*
> Progress Trend Graph
> *Altitude and barometric trends in Suunto Spartan Ultra*
> Offline synchronization of your Moves
> Rest & Recovery
> *Interval training support*
> Performance and recovery analysis on the watch
> *Route altitude profile navigation*
> Move comparison on Suunto movescount.com"
> 
> I'll try to test out the BT connectivity fix with the sensors on my trainer this weekend, to see if I can finally have all three sensors connected at the same time (HR, cadence/speed and power). And I'll see what's with the GPS update and the auto pause feature.


I think they are highlighting Personal Best etc. to keep people inside Movescount, I have started using Strava as it has better functionality in this area which means I'm not as locked into the 'spartan solution' as they refer to it, a case of marketing driving development maybe.

Other than I'd add offline sync as green your list is spot on for priority for me


----------



## Jaka83

PTBC said:


> I think they are highlighting Personal Best etc. to keep people inside Movescount, I have started using Strava as it has better functionality in this area which means I'm not as locked into the 'spartan solution' as they refer to it, a case of marketing driving development maybe.
> 
> Other than I'd add *offline sync* as green your list is spot on for priority for me


Yes, I left that one out because I didn't want to push it that far. It's on my list of needed before the highlighted in red, but not very high on the "green" list. But I agree, it's way more useful than the three features/updates in the red section.
Oh well, at least we got a minor update and the updates are coming - slowly, but steadily.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

"Altitude shown in swim" is listed in both "bug fixes" and "known issues". Under "new features", "auto pause" and "steps weekly summary" are both either taken for granted by most when buying a modern watch, or not used at all (my damn case). So, not amusing at this point. Showing minutes in training load is also listed as a new feature but is really just an improvement since the main feature was already there. And that is it for new features. Under improvements, we find "fix GPS" and "fix reset during update" which are strictly bug fixes. Improve cadence data is not general but only when using internal accelerometer (it has been fine with a foot POD). And "data compressed to fit show more workouts" may need editing (not volunteering). The list of bug fixes seems short. And I hope they didn't introduce any new ones (like the battery icon seems to have gone back to just be stuck on full battery icon again, or is it just my watch?). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> "Showing minutes in training load is also listed as a new feature but is really just an improvement since the main feature was already there.


Yes I thought that was a bit cheeky, you could also say at least they are being thorough in the update notes, but that could easily have been a 'note' not a feature

Hey look we haven't fixed the GPS fully, but you now have decimal points!!!!!!!


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> Yes I thought that was a bit cheeky, you could also say at least they are being thorough in the update notes, but that could easily have been a 'note' not a feature
> 
> Hey look we haven't fixed the GPS fully, but you now have decimal points!!!!!!!


I think there are quite a few odd notes. Question: does anyone know what this mean: "Stopwatch shows reset button even when stopwatch time count is already zero"?


----------



## JimmyKane

Cadence is fixed

Before 







after


----------



## Jaka83

The stopwatch reset used to show a reset option at the bottom even when the stopwatch was already reset to zero. It does not do that anymore, at least on my unit. Now when you go to the stopwatch and start it, then pause it, press reset, the counter goes to 0 and the reset option goes away like it should.

@JimmyKane did you have autopause turned on or did you manually pause the watch at those pause points in the second graph?


----------



## philipp0785

Hi all,

I've bought the Spartan to replace my Traverse. To be honest, I regret it...

I don't like the watch faces. Why isn't there a watch face similar to the old ones? I miss the seconds and the battery level at the normal digital watch face. There is a digital watch face with analog pointer... I hate that :/
Do you think there will be a better watch face in the future?

When I go for a run, I always have problems with the heart rate sensor. It's more or less like a lottery if I have a signal or not.
Is there somebody else with the same problem?

I used my Traverse pretty often for navigation. Therefore I uploaded a track and used that for navigation.
This is also possible with the Spartan. When you start a running session there is an option to choose the track you want to navigate. But you can not choose NO track. That means as soon as you have stored one or more tracks on your Spartan you can't go without choosing one of the tracks. I have forwarded this problem to Suunto, but have got no response.
How do you solve this problem?

I really think about selling the Spartan on Ebay...


----------



## philipp0785

I forgot to mention another thing. THE BACKLIGHT

SUUNTO ARE YOU SERIOUS?????

There is no button to switch on the backlight!!!! You need to tap with two fingers!!!!
But the issue is, that I need gloves in winter season! And normaly it is dark, when I go for a run...
I'm pretty unhappy about that... :/


----------



## JimmyKane

Jaka83 said:


> The stopwatch reset used to show a reset option at the bottom even when the stopwatch was already reset to zero. It does not do that anymore, at least on my unit. Now when you go to the stopwatch and start it, then pause it, press reset, the counter goes to 0 and the reset option goes away like it should.
> 
> @JimmyKane did you have autopause turned on or did you manually pause the watch at those pause points in the second graph?


Manual why?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Jaka83 said:


> The stopwatch reset used to show a reset option at the bottom even when the stopwatch was already reset to zero. It does not do that anymore, at least on my unit. Now when you go to the stopwatch and start it, then pause it, press reset, the counter goes to 0 and the reset option goes away like it should.


Thanks. So they now show the reset button only when the stopwatch can indeed be reset, mentioned that in the list of bug fixes, but made the battery icon a bogus icon again, and didn't mention anything about that. Was that intentional? Why can the Ultra not have just a regular icon that shows graphically what the battery level is, in addition to having a percent number, like we are used to from virtually all cellphones/laptops/etc...? Are we going to have to ask for a graphical battery gauge that is not bogus?

I still think the Spartan Ultra is being abandoned. They released a bug fix update, with bug fixes listed under "improvements" and "new features" just to make it look like there is significant progress, probably with stuff they needed to fix for the other Spartan models, but will not invest much time into solving any serious problems specific to the Spartan Ultra.


----------



## krazyeone

philipp0785 said:


> I forgot to mention another thing. THE BACKLIGHT
> 
> SUUNTO ARE YOU SERIOUS?????
> 
> There is no button to switch on the backlight!!!! You need to tap with two fingers!!!!
> But the issue is, that I need gloves in winter season! And normaly it is dark, when I go for a run...
> I'm pretty unhappy about that... :/


That's bad
They should implement as any Garmin devices: on every lap backlight should open for few seconds

This is what I am missing in A3P, when I run is already night , and I always miss laps statistic , I don't hear beep and I cannot check watch ever second


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> Manual why?


I think he is asking because it looks like the recording is stopped at the rest periods with no obvious change is pace/cadence prior to a sharp stop. So if the watch was using auto pause it would need to be sort of back tracking from the moment you actually stopped moving, in order to get such a nice graph. In other words, the graph looks like a graph produced with manual pause, and it would be surprising if it was done using auto pause.


----------



## JimmyKane

krazyeone said:


> That's bad
> They should implement as any Garmin devices: on every lap backlight should open for few seconds
> 
> This is what I am missing in A3P, when I run is already night , and I always miss laps statistic , I don't hear beep and I cannot check watch ever second


It works as you dexcribed for me. I have set tones to buttons off and in every autolap I hear a beep, a vibration and screen lights up


----------



## capcav73

philipp0785 said:


> This is also possible with the Spartan. When you start a running session there is an option to choose the track you want to navigate. But you can not choose NO track. That means as soon as you have stored one or more tracks on your Spartan you can't go without choosing one of the tracks. I have forwarded this problem to Suunto, but have got no response.
> How do you solve this problem?


It is possible.
In exercise option, you select another time the field 'track' and it erase it (on my watch, it's like that with last FW).


----------



## Jaka83

philipp0785 said:


> I don't like the watch faces. Why isn't there a watch face similar to the old ones? I miss the seconds and the battery level at the normal digital watch face. There is a digital watch face with analog pointer... I hate that :/
> Do you think there will be a better watch face in the future?


I think only Suunto knows that ... my guess is, they will probably try to implement a feature to make our own watchfaces, but I don't see that happening any time soon, since the watch is missing more fundamental features.



philipp0785 said:


> When I go for a run, I always have problems with the heart rate sensor. It's more or less like a lottery if I have a signal or not.
> Is there somebody else with the same problem?


This is my first BLE watch and my first BLE heart rate sensor and the only two problems I've had so far are the "flatline" bug where the watch records a constant heart rate after a certain time of exercise because of an internal bug and the other problem with BLE sensor connectivity where you try to connect three BLE sensors at the same time (HR, Bike POD and Power POD), where the HR on the watch displays insane numbers like 240 bpm and such.
Both of these bugs should be fixed with the latest FW update, but I need to verify that with my equipment and just haven't had the time yet.



philipp0785 said:


> I used my Traverse pretty often for navigation. Therefore I uploaded a track and used that for navigation.
> This is also possible with the Spartan. When you start a running session there is an option to choose the track you want to navigate. But you can not choose NO track. That means as soon as you have stored one or more tracks on your Spartan you can't go without choosing one of the tracks. I have forwarded this problem to Suunto, but have got no response.
> How do you solve this problem?


When you choose a track you can go back to the options on the watch, move to the track selection option and just press the middle button once, the track name should disappear after a second and you should have no track selected. At first it looked like a bug to me, but I guess they haven't programmed the "no track" option in the track selection screen yet. This option is probably very low on the to-do list.

You are always free to do as you want with your watch, I can't stop you there, but I understand your frustration coming from a semi/fully featured watch like the Traverse.  I know I'll be sticking with mine for some years to come, as I did with the first Ambit.


----------



## Jaka83

JimmyKane said:


> It works as you dexcribed for me. I have set tones to buttons off and in every autolap I hear a beep, a vibration and screen lights up


You forgot to add that your watch needs to be in Automatic mode for that to work. If you have it set to Toggle, then the screen never lights up unless you tap it with two fingers and the screen has to be unlocked too.


----------



## Unperson

LONG_HAUL said:


> I still think the Spartan Ultra is being abandoned. They released a bug fix update, with bug fixes listed under "improvements" and "new features" just to make it look like there is significant progress, probably with stuff they needed to fix for the other Spartan models, but will not invest much time into solving any serious problems specific to the Spartan Ultra.


Why would you think that? With the ultra, sport and trainer series they seem to be moving all watches over to the Spartan software platform. I agree that things are dreadfully slow but to me the introduction of all the Spartan series watches points more to an abandonment of the Ambit platform than of the Spartan platform.


----------



## Pegasus

How do you use FusedAlti if you don't know your altitude to enter manually? I can't find an option for it, it was available on my Ambit3 and Traverse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## morey000

Nail in the coffin. 
Garmin is getting ready to release the Fenix 5, 5S (which I think is like the thinner, 'sport' version, stealing Suunto's idea), and 5X (perhaps a longer battery life, ultra/hiking watch- not sure)

My guess is that the new line is based on the processing hardware rolled out in the uber expensive Chronos, that's faster and more energy efficient. All have built in HR with newer, more efficient LEDs. Packaging is nice.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Unperson said:


> Why would you think that? With the ultra, sport and trainer series they seem to be moving all watches over to the Spartan software platform. I agree that things are dreadfully slow but to me the introduction of all the Spartan series watches points more to an abandonment of the Ambit platform than of the Spartan platform.


I suspect some lingering firmware issues are indicative of underlying hardware problems. And if that is the case, either they recall or slowly abandon it. They haven't recalled it.

There is a longer discussion on the new firmware update thread.


----------



## rdm01

philipp0785 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I used my Traverse pretty often for navigation. Therefore I uploaded a track and used that for navigation.
> This is also possible with the Spartan. When you start a running session there is an option to choose the track you want to navigate. But you can not choose NO track. That means as soon as you have stored one or more tracks on your Spartan you can't go without choosing one of the tracks.?


To unset the route you have to set again the same route in the list. It's quite not user friendly way to do ☹

deporteporvida.com


----------



## IronP

*IRONMAN "SUUNTO SSU FIASCO"
*Hello guys, I bringing to you, my terrible experience that I had with my SSU, during the ironman on the 5/11 in florida.
I already reported the issue to suunto via the official channel (6/11), but no response until now (Case number: 00750346.)
So, about the experience:
Before Start:
-overnight charging
-sync the watch with the mobile app 1h before competition start

Start competition:
-initiated the triathlon mode to get the hr sensor link and the gps fix (5min before the start)

Swim start:
-watch initiated normal
-hr reported, flat at 31bpm (total failure)

Transition 1 & bike:
-transition was normal
-bike start went well, the SSU connected to the cadence sensor without problems
-BUT, after 2h55min in the race, the SSU simply stopped working and went automatically to the normal watch mode! (i did not touch anything)
-i noticed and started again a triathlon session, by skipping quick the swim and t1 and going direct to the bike....this worked! 
-BUT, again, after ca. 3h on the bike, the SSU stopped working and went to watch mode!! Very anoying!! At this stage, i was finalizing the bike leg, so i didn´t bother to re-start the watch.
-hr reported normal

Run:
-i did the run leg without problems, but I selected the run mode instead of the triathlon mode.
-hr reported normal
After the race, i simulate the triathlon mode and I could reproduce the problem in the triathlon mode! After ca. 3h, the watch reset and goes to watch mode automatically.
Btw, the recorded session is kept, but recorded as "bike" session, but in fact, the swim, t1 and bike shows in the report at the movescount.

So, this is a clear BLOCKING bug at the triathlon mode for long distance! I cannot use this watch for my next competitions and suunto is just quite about it!
Very very disappointed about it!
I even cannot return the watch, because I have it since its release!


----------



## snowleopardw

【iOS】Movescount App【v2.7.5】
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c0nv63069f8is9h
Version 2.7.5 iOS App can change the language of non-China Edition SSU to Chinese.
To install this version, you have to jailbreak your iPhone first!


----------



## BobMiles

IronP said:


> *IRONMAN "SUUNTO SSU FIASCO"
> *Hello guys, I bringing to you, my terrible experience that I had with my SSU, during the ironman on the 5/11 in florida.
> I already reported the issue to suunto via the official channel (6/11), but no response until now (Case number: 00750346.)
> So, about the experience:
> Before Start:
> -overnight charging
> -sync the watch with the mobile app 1h before competition start
> 
> Start competition:
> -initiated the triathlon mode to get the hr sensor link and the gps fix (5min before the start)
> 
> Swim start:
> -watch initiated normal
> -hr reported, flat at 31bpm (total failure)
> 
> Transition 1 & bike:
> -transition was normal
> -bike start went well, the SSU connected to the cadence sensor without problems
> -BUT, after 2h55min in the race, the SSU simply stopped working and went automatically to the normal watch mode! (i did not touch anything)
> -i noticed and started again a triathlon session, by skipping quick the swim and t1 and going direct to the bike....this worked!
> -BUT, again, after ca. 3h on the bike, the SSU stopped working and went to watch mode!! Very anoying!! At this stage, i was finalizing the bike leg, so i didn´t bother to re-start the watch.
> -hr reported normal
> 
> Run:
> -i did the run leg without problems, but I selected the run mode instead of the triathlon mode.
> -hr reported normal
> After the race, i simulate the triathlon mode and I could reproduce the problem in the triathlon mode! After ca. 3h, the watch reset and goes to watch mode automatically.
> Btw, the recorded session is kept, but recorded as "bike" session, but in fact, the swim, t1 and bike shows in the report at the movescount.
> 
> So, this is a clear BLOCKING bug at the triathlon mode for long distance! I cannot use this watch for my next competitions and suunto is just quite about it!
> Very very disappointed about it!
> I even cannot return the watch, because I have it since its release!


Sorry to hear about your bad experiences! To be honest, right now I'd go for A3P for an iron man... 
What version were you on? I think I've read that in the newest version, they fixed a bug concerning your crash!


----------



## IronP

Hello,
yes, although my training sessions went without big problems with the SSU, the triathlon mode is a no-go for the moment!
I´m using the sw version 1.2.4.
The triathlon mode was subject of changes in the previous versions of the software, as far as I know.
Btw.....no words from suunto until now!


----------



## ascender

One thing they got spot on with the Ultra was the vibration alerts - felt spot-on compared to others I've tried - not too jarring but just enough that you'd never miss one.


----------



## tinu80

IronP said:


> *IRONMAN "SUUNTO SSU FIASCO"
> *I even cannot return the watch, because I have it since its release!


I would speak to your retailer. That's what I did at end of October here in Switzerland. I was able to send back my used SSU to them and get a full refund. They understood my issues with the watch perfectly.


----------



## np31

Question:
The Spartan has a touch interface, but I find myself quite reluctant to use it because of fingerprints and smudges. Has anyone successfully tried protection screens or "liquid shields" that could help with keeping the watch clean while using its touch-enabled features ?

With only 3 buttons, I can only imagine that new functionalities will require using the screen for inputs (e.g. the recently added step counter summary), hence my question.

thanks-


----------



## BobMiles

np31 said:


> Question:
> The Spartan has a touch interface, but I find myself quite reluctant to use it because of fingerprints and smudges. Has anyone successfully tried protection screens or "liquid shields" that could help with keeping the watch clean while using its touch-enabled features ?
> 
> With only 3 buttons, I can only imagine that new functionalities will require using the screen for inputs (e.g. the recently added step counter summary), hence my question.
> 
> thanks-


Just wipe it off once in a while? It's an outdoor watch, it *wants *to get dirty


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## PTBC

BobMiles said:


> Just wipe it off once in a while? It's an outdoor watch, it *wants *to get dirty


Sapphire glass for a reason, very forgiving about what you use to wipe it clean with (or of)


----------



## Hecke

I also don't like the smears after using the touch interface. But I either play with the watch, then it gets dirty, or I wear it to have an occasional look. Whenever I see the smears, I wipe it with my Tshirt. 
After running the watch usually looks dirty from sweat anyway...


----------



## alfling

Hi everyone! I've been following this forum for quite some time because I'm seriously considering buying the Spartan Ultra. The Titanium Black version looks marvelous to me, but I have a doubt I can't dispel: how resistant is that black paint on the titanium bezel? I would hate having a perfect sapphire display surrounded by a scratched bezel


----------



## Cassote

Has anyone here went through the give feedback form? They end up asking if we would like to be part of some group in Facebook connected to development, but I got no invitation whatsoever.... thought this might be some beta testing group , as I've seen some youtubers mentioning this before....
it would be very nice from them to have direct feedback from users ...


----------



## Unperson

alfling said:


> Hi everyone! I've been following this forum for quite some time because I'm seriously considering buying the Spartan Ultra. The Titanium Black version looks marvelous to me, but I have a doubt I can't dispel: how resistant is that black paint on the titanium bezel? I would hate having a perfect sapphire display surrounded by a scratched bezel


Mine has some very slight scratches on the bezel between 11 and 12 o'clock. No clue what I did to do that, probably the side of the watch that occasionally hits tables, sinks, bicycles et cetera. I wouldn't call it resistant, but it's not directly obvious that it's scratched either. Perhaps it's possible to touch it up some way, I haven't given it much attention.


----------



## alfling

Unperson said:


> Mine has some very slight scratches on the bezel between 11 and 12 o'clock. No clue what I did to do that, probably the side of the watch that occasionally hits tables, sinks, bicycles et cetera. I wouldn't call it resistant, but it's not directly obvious that it's scratched either. Perhaps it's possible to touch it up some way, I haven't given it much attention.


Thank you for your input. Do you have the titanium version?


----------



## Unperson

alfling said:


> Thank you for your input. Do you have the titanium version?


Yes, the black one.


----------



## gousias

Unperson said:


> Mine has some very slight scratches on the bezel between 11 and 12 o'clock. No clue what I did to do that, probably the side of the watch that occasionally hits tables, sinks, bicycles et cetera. I wouldn't call it resistant, but it's not directly obvious that it's scratched either. Perhaps it's possible to touch it up some way, I haven't given it much attention.


Despite the titanium material, it is easy to get scratched?


----------



## krazyeone

Titanium is not black ! I have an Titanium bike and can be scratched, is not diamant or saphire ...


----------



## mercuir0

alfling said:


> Hi everyone! I've been following this forum for quite some time because I'm seriously considering buying the Spartan Ultra. The Titanium Black version looks marvelous to me, but I have a doubt I can't dispel: how resistant is that black paint on the titanium bezel? I would hate having a perfect sapphire display surrounded by a scratched bezel


i would suggest not to buy any spartan at the moment. the firmware is not working properly and it looks like it will take them at least six more months to get it to any decent state (if they continue at the pace of the last three months).

in addition the gps antenna design seems to be horrible, doesn't look like they will be able to get anything working by updating the gps-firmware (the new gps-fw was supposed to improve the situation but only made things worse)

i really like suunto but the spartans firmware is a joke, so please wait for the fenix 5 and get that one!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## johan6504

alfling said:


> Hi everyone! I've been following this forum for quite some time because I'm seriously considering buying the Spartan Ultra. The Titanium Black version looks marvelous to me, but I have a doubt I can't dispel: how resistant is that black paint on the titanium bezel? I would hate having a perfect sapphire display surrounded by a scratched bezel


I would stay away from the Spartan Ultra until Suunto has proven that the GPS works. Right now GPS performance is mess...


----------



## BobMiles

I have the feeling that the Spartan shows a satellite fix way too early. When the arrow gets full and I start the exercise, it still shows random speed. I had this on my old Garmin FR220, too. After getting green lights on the watch you still had to wait some time for GPS to stabilise. 
Maybe this and a bad calibrated filter are the main issue in terms of GPS accuracy.


----------



## JimmyKane

BobMiles said:


> I have the feeling that the Spartan shows a satellite fix way too early. When the arrow gets full and I start the exercise, it still shows random speed. I had this on my old Garmin FR220, too. After getting green lights on the watch you still had to wait some time for GPS to stabilise.
> Maybe this and a bad calibrated filter are the main issue in terms of GPS accuracy.


Same here. Also no Glonass support so far.


----------



## PTBC

BobMiles said:


> I have the feeling that the Spartan shows a satellite fix way too early. When the arrow gets full and I start the exercise, it still shows random speed. I had this on my old Garmin FR220, too. After getting green lights on the watch you still had to wait some time for GPS to stabilise.
> Maybe this and a bad calibrated filter are the main issue in terms of GPS accuracy.


I posted on another thread that I had noticed it the recorded track consistently drifts off to the watch hand side at the start of a move, I suspect it doesn't have a proper lock being a possible explanation. I have reported it to Suunto, but their service response is lousy at the moment, measured in weeks at best.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

PTBC said:


> ... I have reported it to Suunto, but their service response is lousy at the moment, measured in weeks at best.


Ikeep wanting to tell people they say such things as if they thought that Suuntois just waiting for their input... but since no one from Suunto is sayinganything on forums like these (and hardly anyone here knows what the developersat Suunto are aware of, of course)... Well, I can just say what they allowed meto say when I had to not release the second interview (see interview 1 / update here): They are throwing prettymuch everything at the Spartan issues...


----------



## eeun

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> ............They are throwing prettymuch everything at the Spartan issues...


Like I said, no chance we'll see an A3 update anytime soon due to the [obvious] focus on fixing the Spartan.


----------



## alfling

Thank you guys, I guess I'll just get some second-hand watch to use while I wait for a proper one, maybe an ambit3 or a fenix3


----------



## PTBC

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Ikeep wanting to tell people they say such things as if they thought that Suuntois just waiting for their input... but since no one from Suunto is sayinganything on forums like these (and hardly anyone here knows what the developersat Suunto are aware of, of course)... Well, I can just say what they allowed meto say when I had to not release the second interview (see interview 1 / update here): They are throwing prettymuch everything at the Spartan issues...


I'm referring more to the Service Management process, which I have experience with setting up etc., their handling of communication and general incident/ticket handling isn't great. The development side should be aware of multiple reported issues (problem management) and that is a separate process. For example if someone sends in a ticket with GPS issues a standard response that they are aware of GPS issues and have identified a bug they are working on etc. would be better than silence for weeks on end

On the development side they may well be using logs for data analysis and problem identification so the flow of information from service reports to development needs to be managed as well


----------



## Cassote

I think it would be important to create at least a communication channel with the team , and possible beta versions for testers . That would provide more data ....


----------



## JimmyKane

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Ikeep wanting to tell people they say such things as if they thought that Suuntois just waiting for their input... but since no one from Suunto is sayinganything on forums like these (and hardly anyone here knows what the developersat Suunto are aware of, of course)... Well, I can just say what they allowed meto say when I had to not release the second interview (see interview 1 / update here): They are throwing prettymuch everything at the Spartan issues...


Nice interview! Btw they do need user input. So regarding replies etc, they seem slow but they do neeed our input!


----------



## krazyeone

alfling said:


> Thank you guys, I guess I'll just get some second-hand watch to use while I wait for a proper one, maybe an ambit3 or a fenix3


fenix 3


----------



## krazyeone

eeun said:


> Like I said, no chance we'll see an A3 update anytime soon due to the [obvious] focus on fixing the Spartan.


Great, lets keep everybody unhappy , you have an new big an expensive ship that is already sinking and some small boats that are good but not exactly OK , 
why not to invest small time to fix small boats in order to support big ship?

How many users are buying Spartan and how many AP3 are already in the market?

For me if an company is aware of bugs but is not releasing and FW to fix it, is an ...... company , or at Suunto is only one guy who is doing debugging and bug fix?


----------



## buenosbias

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Ikeep wanting to tell people they say such things as if they thought that Suuntois just waiting for their input... but since no one from Suunto is sayinganything on forums like these (and hardly anyone here knows what the developersat Suunto are aware of, of course)... Well, I can just say what they allowed meto say when I had to not release the second interview (see interview 1 / update here): They are throwing prettymuch everything at the Spartan issues...


You know more than most of us, and I do want to believe you, but that's not easy from a regular user's perspective. The software bugs are just too glaring.


----------



## alfling

krazyeone said:


> fenix 3


Any reason in particular to choose that over the ambit?


----------



## BobMiles

krazyeone said:


> Great, lets keep everybody unhappy , you have an new big an expensive ship that is already sinking and some small boats that are good but not exactly OK ,
> why not to invest small time to fix small boats in order to support big ship?
> 
> How many users are buying Spartan and how many AP3 are already in the market?
> 
> For me if an company is aware of bugs but is not releasing and FW to fix it, is an ...... company , or at Suunto is only one guy who is doing debugging and bug fix?


I was pretty happy with the Ambit3 - what do you expect from an update?


----------



## krazyeone

BobMiles said:


> I was pretty happy with the Ambit3 - what do you expect from an update?


Some small bug fixes , problem is that I have receive some emails from Suunto and they replied to me that is an well know bug and next FW release will be fixed
I just wait for that FW !


----------



## BobMiles

I wonder if we'll see some news tomorrow. All the bugs and issues aside, Suunto at least kept updating ther spartan gets stronger page every week.
They are far back in their development, but at least they know and try to push. Hope we'll get sport mode customisation within a month at least...


----------



## JimmyKane

Yeah best is I think small updates rather than postponing all. For example fixes come first, then UI, or combined. I think Suunto goes this way judging from the previous update. But let's see...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> Yeah best is I think small updates rather than postponing all. For example fixes come first, then UI, or combined. I think Suunto goes this way judging from the previous update. But let's see...


The battery icon does not turn red when battery level goes below 20% like you said it would.


----------



## Cassote

About battery ..... how much yours last ? Does it get close to the 18h on gps ?


----------



## JimmyKane

LONG_HAUL said:


> The battery icon does not turn red when battery level goes below 20% like you said it would.


I owe you a big apollogy. It does not indeed! Sorry! I did not believe you as it did in the past. I have reported the issue to their support!


----------



## JimmyKane

Cassote said:


> About battery ..... how much yours last ? Does it get close to the 18h on gps ?


16h tested with HR BLE and rough GPS conditions


----------



## Cassote

JimmyKane said:


> 16h tested with HR BLE and rough GPS conditions


And on Watch mode... rhe 10 days also?


----------



## JimmyKane

Cassote said:


> And on Watch mode... rhe 10 days also?


About 12-13 days


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> I owe you a big apollogy. It does not indeed! Sorry! I did not believe you as it did in the past. I have reported the issue to their support!


Not a problem. The red icon appears on the watch face. The icon on the exercise screen never changes.


----------



## JimmyKane

LONG_HAUL said:


> Not a problem. The red icon appears on the watch face. The icon on the exercise screen never changes.


I think it used though. Didn't it?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

JimmyKane said:


> I think it used though. Didn't it?


I think you misunderstood me. What I wrote is true for the most recent firmware version: 1.4.6. So repeating: the battery icon on the exercise screen never changes and always shows a full battery icon. When the battery level goes below 20%, a red icon appears on the watch face. The battery icon shown by tapping the screen during a move shows an icon with bar that seems to dynamically reflect the battery level, along with battery level in percent. This is how 1.4.6 behaves. So, the questions are: what are they using the icon in the exercise screen for? Why is that not working (firmware update after firmware update)? Is there a hardware issue associated with that behavior? Or are they just really that incompetent?


----------



## PTBC

JimmyKane said:


> I think it used though. Didn't it?


I'm sure it did at one point, though which firmware version I couldn't say, do agree that the red icon below 20% appears on watchfaces, which does kins of beg the question why there can't be a battery indicator on the watchface anyway


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> I think you misunderstood me. What I wrote is true for the most recent firmware version: 1.4.6. So repeating: the battery icon on the exercise screen never changes and always shows a full battery icon. When the battery level goes below 20%, a red icon appears on the watch face. The battery icon shown by tapping the screen during a move shows an icon with bar that seems to dynamically reflect the battery level, along with battery level in percent. This is how 1.4.6 behaves. So, the questions are: what are they using the icon in the exercise screen for? Why is that not working (firmware update after firmware update)? Is there a hardware issue associated with that behavior? Or are they just really that incompetent?


Given the other methods in which it manages to display the battery life it would be very odd if it was a hardware limitation, maybe the way they coded the screens as static menu's meant adding dynamic data to them was tricky, this is the menu level where the lag most noticeably occurs so something odd may be going on.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> Given the other methods in which it manages to display the battery life it would be very odd if it was a hardware limitation, maybe the way they coded the screens as static menu's meant adding dynamic data to them was tricky, this is the menu level where the lag most noticeably occurs so something odd may be going on.


I'm not sure I follow. I paid for the watch and I don't think such technical limitations should now be my problem. That's their problem and should have been dealt with months ago. Went on the Apple Watch forum and the amount of information they have is amazing. And it is all really nicely organized. Can't wait to get mine. I have a cycling unit so if the AW2 works for 2h-3h total swim+run workout time in a day that will be more than enough for me.


----------



## bryanredneck27

well well well…

I wrote suunto a few weeks ago and got a f·$·$ck off mail, telling that they would not refund the money as I passed the 30 day refundable policy (I was one of the early adopters).

After that, what I did was open up a claim with PayPal… as I originally paid the suunto watch with PayPal….

PayPal allowed me to state my case… which I did (with links, and false promises of updates that never happened…

PayPal just ruled on my favor and returned the money a few minutes ago… 

1 for PayPal 0 for suunto…
0 for suunto customer service, 
0 for suunto as a company, 
0 for suunto for selling a watch that does not work.


----------



## PTBC

bryanredneck27 said:


> well well well&#8230;
> 
> I wrote suunto a few weeks ago and got a f·$·$ck off mail, telling that they would not refund the money as I passed the 30 day refundable policy (I was one of the early adopters).
> 
> After that, what I did was open up a claim with PayPal&#8230; as I originally paid the suunto watch with PayPal&#8230;.
> 
> PayPal allowed me to state my case&#8230; which I did (with links, and false promises of updates that never happened&#8230;
> 
> PayPal just ruled on my favor and returned the money a few minutes ago&#8230;
> 
> 1 for PayPal 0 for suunto&#8230;
> 0 for suunto customer service,
> 0 for suunto as a company,
> 0 for suunto for selling a watch that does not work.


So just to clarify you bought direct from Suunto and when you asked for a return they refused so then you went the PayPal route (same could work with credit card policies likely). Given they just extended the warranty period by a year you would think that acknowledgement of issues would also involve a better return policy.

Might be worth noting that you had a refusal in writing from Suunto as my recollection is that chargeback claims often involve proving that you have attempted to resolve the issue with the seller before going the claim/chargeback route.


----------



## PTBC

bryanredneck27 said:


> well well well&#8230;
> 
> I wrote suunto a few weeks ago and got a f·$·$ck off mail, telling that they would not refund the money as I passed the 30 day refundable policy (I was one of the early adopters).
> 
> After that, what I did was open up a claim with PayPal&#8230; as I originally paid the suunto watch with PayPal&#8230;.
> 
> PayPal allowed me to state my case&#8230; which I did (with links, and false promises of updates that never happened&#8230;
> 
> PayPal just ruled on my favor and returned the money a few minutes ago&#8230;
> 
> 1 for PayPal 0 for suunto&#8230;
> 0 for suunto customer service,
> 0 for suunto as a company,
> 0 for suunto for selling a watch that does not work.


So just to clarify you bought direct from Suunto and when you asked for a return they refused so then you went the PayPal route (same could work with credit card policies likely). Given they just extended the warranty period by a year you would think that acknowledgement of issues would also involve a better return policy


----------



## LONG_HAUL

bryanredneck27 said:


> well well well&#8230;
> 
> I wrote suunto a few weeks ago and got a f·$·$ck off mail, telling that they would not refund the money as I passed the 30 day refundable policy (I was one of the early adopters).
> 
> After that, what I did was open up a claim with PayPal&#8230; as I originally paid the suunto watch with PayPal&#8230;.
> 
> PayPal allowed me to state my case&#8230; which I did (with links, and false promises of updates that never happened&#8230;
> 
> PayPal just ruled on my favor and returned the money a few minutes ago&#8230;
> 
> 1 for PayPal 0 for suunto&#8230;
> 0 for suunto customer service,
> 0 for suunto as a company,
> 0 for suunto for selling a watch that does not work.


I would be interested in reading the case you made along with the links if there is a way to post them here. Thanks for sharing anyway.


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> I'm not sure I follow. I paid for the watch and I don't think such technical limitations should now be my problem. That's their problem and should have been dealt with months ago. Went on the Apple Watch forum and the amount of information they have is amazing. And it is all really nicely organized. Can't wait to get mine. I have a cycling unit so if the AW2 works for 2h-3h total swim+run workout time in a day that will be more than enough for me.


It was more a case of me thinking aloud regarding your hardware limitation comment and what the issues could be. My wife has a gen 1 apple watch and loves it, she was going to buy a basic fitness/activity tracker that did notifications then tried the watch and decided it was worth the extra money, she doesn't swim so water wasn't an issue.


----------



## Pegasus

I was looking at the Apple Watch, made the choice at the time to go Suunto but beginning to regret that decision. I've got no chance of a refund so I can't really justify an Apple Watch as well now.

Really fed up with Suunto, the watch does neither the notification or sport watch function very well at the moment and the silence from Suunto is deafening.

I would put it on eBay but I feel too guilty offloading it to someone in this state.

I got offered a discount off Salomon stuff as 'compensation', so I get to spend more money on stuff I don't need in order to use a discount. Unimpressed.

Anyway rant over 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

There were some comments about Suunto asking for watches to be returned for investigation initially, haven't heard much of that lately and it's never been suggested by them in my case. Could see that would be useful to determine manufacturing defect or bad batch of components etc. though there does appear to be variable performance for units it doesn't seem that they are looking at this being the case.

Latest support ticket answer had a new question-do you connect your watch to a computer regularly, say once or twice a week at least

I assumed by that they mean physically attach with a cable rather than just wireless syncing


----------



## Pegasus

The responses I have been getting from them indicate to me that they are trying to buy time, delayed responses, ask customer to try something to take up more time even if it's unlikely to change anything.

They are classic stalling tactics in my opinion while they search for a resolution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bcalvanese

Glad I read through this thread.

Am returning my Spartan Ultra before the 30 days runs out. I did a couple of 5 mile power walks the past couple days and the GPS tracks are not good compared to other devices I have owned.

I do own a Garmin fenix3 HR, but after doing a 7.5 mile power walk/jog last weekend, I went to save the workout when the watch restarted itself and lost the entire workout. I was so pissed, I wanted to smash it with a hammer and mail it back to Garmin with a hate note. I have owned the fenix3 and the fenix3 HR, and it has been nothing but one nightmare after another for the past year.

losing workouts
phantom workouts
unknown device
servers going down rendering the device useless for days at a time
inconsistent data
and other stuff

I need a device that works "every time" and is "consistent" all the time.

I just ordered a Ambit3 Peak (with HR sensor) off Amazon for $325.95. I think it should be consistent, and I also think the GPS in the bump is more accurate. I had an ambit3 peak for a few days but returned it because it looked used when I got it, but I did take it out for some workouts and was very happy with the GPS track, and I didn't mind the bump at all.


----------



## bryanredneck27

PTBC said:


> So just to clarify you bought direct from Suunto and when you asked for a return they refused so then you went the PayPal route (same could work with credit card policies likely). Given they just extended the warranty period by a year you would think that acknowledgement of issues would also involve a better return policy.
> 
> Might be worth noting that you had a refusal in writing from Suunto as my recollection is that chargeback claims often involve proving that you have attempted to resolve the issue with the seller before going the claim/chargeback route.


Correct!! Got an email
Refusing the refund


----------



## PTBC

bcalvanese said:


> Glad I read through this thread.
> 
> Am returning my Spartan Ultra before the 30 days runs out. I did a couple of 5 mile power walks the past couple days and the GPS tracks are not good compared to other devices I have owned.
> 
> I do own a Garmin fenix3 HR, but after doing a 7.5 mile power walk/jog last weekend, I went to save the workout when the watch restarted itself and lost the entire workout. I was so pissed, I wanted to smash it with a hammer and mail it back to Garmin with a hate note. I have owned the fenix3 and the fenix3 HR, and it has been nothing but one nightmare after another for the past year.
> 
> losing workouts
> phantom workouts
> unknown device
> servers going down rendering the device useless for days at a time
> inconsistent data
> and other stuff
> 
> I need a device that works "every time" and is "consistent" all the time.
> 
> I just ordered a Ambit3 Peak (with HR sensor) off Amazon for $325.95. I think it should be consistent, and I also think the GPS in the bump is more accurate. I had an ambit3 peak for a few days but returned it because it looked used when I got it, but I did take it out for some workouts and was very happy with the GPS track, and I didn't mind the bump at all.


Maybe they aren't so bothered about Spartan as everyone is buying Ambit's instead


----------



## bcalvanese

PTBC said:


> Maybe they aren't so bothered about Spartan as everyone is buying Ambit's instead


Your probably right. All the Peaks are sold out on the Suunto website. I had to order mine off Amazon.


----------



## mercuir0

looking at the next firmware version it seems that instead of improving and implementing important key specs (like gps accuracy, customized sport modes, hr graphs...) they focus on adding unnecessary stuff like a more detailed training view and keep increasing the inconsistency in how you navigate the menus... the slowness of these new pages shows either how inefficiently the firmware was coded (i believe that's the main problem) or how week the processor is... really sad... 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BobMiles

mercuir0 said:


> looking at the next firmware version it seems that instead of improving and implementing important key specs (like gps accuracy, customized sport modes, hr graphs...) they focus on adding unnecessary stuff like a more detailed training view and keep increasing the inconsistency in how you navigate the menus... the slowness of these new pages shows either how inefficiently the firmware was coded (i believe that's the main problem) or how week the processor is... really sad...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


To be honest, I'm excited for more detailed views. Of course the sport mode customization and poi nav is what I'm ultimately waiting for, but still, I'm missing those graphs. 
You get the updates prior to public, right? 
GPS accuracy is quite good for me, I have no offsets, just a bit of corner cutting. Compass is still unusable and I have the feeling that comprises GPS data recording. Might be the accelerometer as well.. 
I was hoping for an update yesterday.. But seems it'll be more like next week


----------



## Cassote

BobMiles said:


> To be honest, I'm excited for more detailed views. Of course the sport mode customization and poi nav is what I'm ultimately waiting for, but still, I'm missing those graphs.
> You get the updates prior to public, right?
> GPS accuracy is quite good for me, I have no offsets, just a bit of corner cutting. Compass is still unusable and I have the feeling that comprises GPS data recording. Might be the accelerometer as well..
> I was hoping for an update yesterday.. But seems it'll be more like next week


Unfortunately... 
well acelerometer might be buggy because my Spartan Ultra , while siting on the table at night it counts about 300 steps( and I just noticed that turning the Watch 90° gently to any on it sides counts steps....). Plus my spartan burns through 5-6% of battery while still with no backlight or usage, since im sleeping....
well , I suggested on twitter that suunto should open up betas for us (like Apple for instance iOS or watchOS ) since with more feedback comes ,ore improvement. They replied minutes after saying they are going debate with development team...


----------



## BobMiles

Cassote said:


> Unfortunately...
> well acelerometer might be buggy because my Spartan Ultra , while siting on the table at night it counts about 300 steps( and I just noticed that turning the Watch 90° gently to any on it sides counts steps....). Plus my spartan burns through 5-6% of battery while still with no backlight or usage, since im sleeping....
> well , I suggested on twitter that suunto should open up betas for us (like Apple for instance iOS or watchOS ) since with more feedback comes ,ore improvement. They replied minutes after saying they are going debate with development team...


That sounds bad indeed. My spartan always shows less than 10 steps picking it up in the morning. The step counting with 90 degree tilt is normal and just the way they implemented it. 
However, I feel that the watch is lacking a ton of proper engineering. The inconsistency is visible from afar and my guess is, that the inside is even more messy. They will get it sorted out eventually, I don't think it's a hardware limitation, but rather their engineering team being quite lost right now.


----------



## Cassote

I was devided between spartan and fenix 3hr . But I really don't like that many buttons ... I like the suunto menu navigation ... so ended up with the spartan with a good discount in amazon ...
i domt mind to wait some time in order for the problems to be sorted , but I would really like to have some insurance on that matter ...


----------



## Cassote

BobMiles said:


> That sounds bad indeed. My spartan always shows less than 10 steps picking it up in the morning. The step counting with 90 degree tilt is normal and just the way they implemented it.
> However, I feel that the watch is lacking a ton of proper engineering. The inconsistency is visible from afar and my guess is, that the inside is even more messy. They will get it sorted out eventually, I don't think it's a hardware limitation, but rather their engineering team being quite lost right now.


Opening betas with be so much better than to have only 10 to 20 people testing (at the least that was depicted on suunto summit photos) . Much more feedback from all types of users .


----------



## edit0r

Hello, Suunto Fans and users.

I have read the threads and I AM SO SORRY that nothing really good happened in the last month or so.

I can't believe that they are dragging their feet so slow on this one.

Right now the Spartan Black HR is 530 euro with the BlackFriday offers on some local stores.... that's a HUGE discount given the fact that I was an early adopter and bought it with 800 euro...

It's still tempting for me to buy it again since I've returned the first Spartan BUT after I've read what it was written in the last 2-3 weeks I've given up.

I am still can't understand why Suunto haven't started in full force to finish the development on this watch... 

A lot of time has passed since launch... what are they waiting for?

They are losing ground each day, don't they see that?

Are they waiting for the Fenix 5 to pop up in stores so they can lose even more ground and even faster?


Push the TURBO button SUUNTO !


----------



## Pegasus

I'm not sure what's going on at Suunto, I'm absolutely sure they are working hard on fixing the issues.

What bothers me is the feedback from them is poor still, the website still talks about updates from 2 months ago, 'Suunto is committed to providing you the best possible solution, and the Spartan solution will continue to improve with software updates scheduled for September, October, November and December of this year, and continuing into 2017.'

Something simple like keeping the website updated is not happening, it all seems so disorganised.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edit0r

Pegasus said:


> Something simple like keeping the website updated is not happening, it all seems so disorganised.


They were not that good... even from the start... with the launch and all... the watch state...

But hey, it's been quite a while since then... It's been more then 2 months since I've returned mine... I even forgot exactly when that happened...

I gave it back but I was still watching the developments waiting for the watch lift off... that did not happen so I am still wondering what's up with that.

I genuinely want this watch to succeed but it looks like Suunto is having a hard time proving us that it can...

I gave it back because I did not want to have the same experience that I had with the Fenix 3 HR... waiting for the watch GPS to become a superstar after some miracle update... update that will never arrive in our lifetime...

I will probably give the Spartan a few more months and then abandon the idea of having a Suunto if they don't let this watch have a proper feature set... at least on par with the older Suunto watches...

If you ask me I would have liked Suunto to aim higher for the Spartan feature set...higher than the Fenix 3 feature set !


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> Something simple like keeping the website updated is not happening, it all seems so disorganised.


Disorganized? That's one word for it. How about ABANDONED?


----------



## ifarlow

The fact that Suunto removed from the web site the notice that the Spartan Sport with integrated HR would be arriving in time for the holidays speaks volumes about Suunto's current situation.


----------



## JimmyKane

Abandoned NO @Long_HAUL. I can assure you for that. 
Regarding the battery drain of 6% overnight: Let it drain to almost empty, charge full, recheck. Had this issue with every update. At start I returned 2 units (doing the update as soon as opening the box) because I though they where faulty. Then I realized that the battery needs calibration after the update. Like on most electronics (although its not noticable). 

I would like to repeat: 

Suunto is putting full power on SSU.

- Check interviews
- Check facebook communities
- Check testers 
- Check new products coming on the spartan platform
- Check expansion of warranty 

Please if you are really afraid that the product is abandoned please stop repeating that (it has been debated more than 30 times in only this thread). We got your fears. Let's discuss about something more constructive.


----------



## Pegasus

JimmyKane said:


> Abandoned NO @Long_HAUL. I can assure you for that.
> Regarding the battery drain of 6% overnight: Let it drain to almost empty, charge full, recheck. Had this issue with every update. At start I returned 2 units (doing the update as soon as opening the box) because I though they where faulty. Then I realized that the battery needs calibration after the update. Like on most electronics (although its not noticable).
> 
> I would like to repeat:
> 
> Suunto is putting full power on SSU.
> 
> - Check interviews
> - Check facebook communities
> - Check testers
> - Check new products coming on the spartan platform
> - Check expansion of warranty
> 
> Please if you are really afraid that the product is abandoned please stop repeating that (it has been debated more than 30 times in only this thread). We got your fears. Let's discuss about something more constructive.


Ok, who could possibly have thought that notifications that show for 5 seconds then disappear forever from the watch without notice that they ever existed and no way to see them again was a good idea?

That is beyond ridiculous, the decision making has been awful.

That's just one example.

As for the 'interviews' didn't they stop the second one that Gerald did from being shown??

Why not put on the website that they are doing everything possible to fix the Spartan and apologise for the current issues and lack of features that were promised? Maybe even email current owners as they should have details from orders and registration of the product.

Anyway, I will leave this thread alone now because I am struggling to be constructive in any way.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BobMiles

Hard to keep a discussion constructive when theres nothing new to discuss about. 
There is the need for an open beta in terms of watch firmware. If you sell a product in beta state, at least be straight about it. 
It seems that their testing strategy was unsuccessful, so change it. 
I would be happy to test every single bug fix they put together. 

But there is one big question that bothers me: How can suunto devs put a SSU on their wrist, look at it and say, yes, this is the best we can do. We did a great job on that static battery icon and look how you can't change your daily activity goals. Isn't that marvelous? It's so awesome that notifications never disturb you because we made the vibration so light that you always miss them, and forget about them because they come and go like nothing happened. And then check this out, after every lap summary screen, we go back to the main data screen instead of the one displayed last, this is especially awesome for navigation because users love changing screens all the time! 

I'm sorry, but those aren't issues you find after a week or two, they jump at anyone right away.


----------



## ifarlow

Suunto had assumed that they have a strong enough reputation that they could push out an unfinished product that people would still line up to purchase and keep despite its significant shortcomings. Now it appears that they are scrambling to deal with a reality that might just be the opposite of their assumptions.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> Anyway, I will leave this thread alone now because I am struggling to be constructive in any way.


Please stay in touch and keep posting! One aspect of coming here is to be constructive. But forums like this also offer an environment for the customers to unite on common issues and flawed products. The relevance of determining if WORK is being EFFECTIVELY put into the Spartan Ultra is the following: if it is not, they abandoned it without properly recalling it. The difference is clear: we receive zero reimbursement after purchasing a flawed product.

The points brought up by Jimmy are interesting but they do not contribute directly to my user experience. I expected first for all the basic functionality to be present from day one, that includes all data collected being accurate. Then I expected for the scheduled functionality upgrades to have been delivered by now. I'm under the impression none of that has been delivery, other than GPS/BLE sensors use configuration. That's it! I expected December to offer some added benefits to top off the product package as whole, and help understand training and recovery better.

At this point in time,, I cannot use the data the Spartan Ultra produces. What is worst: I have witnessed almost no change from the day it was released.

Because of that, I have changed from one of the most positive about the potential of the watch, to pointing out that the present status might be essentially as far as the Spartan Ultra is ever going to get.


----------



## Pegasus

BobMiles said:


> Hard to keep a discussion constructive when theres nothing new to discuss about.
> There is the need for an open beta in terms of watch firmware. If you sell a product in beta state, at least be straight about it.
> It seems that their testing strategy was unsuccessful, so change it.
> I would be happy to test every single bug fix they put together.
> 
> But there is one big question that bothers me: How can suunto devs put a SSU on their wrist, look at it and say, yes, this is the best we can do. We did a great job on that static battery icon and look how you can't change your daily activity goals. Isn't that marvelous? It's so awesome that notifications never disturb you because we made the vibration so light that you always miss them, and forget about them because they come and go like nothing happened. And then check this out, after every lap summary screen, we go back to the main data screen instead of the one displayed last, this is especially awesome for navigation because users love changing screens all the time!
> 
> I'm sorry, but those aren't issues you find after a week or two, they jump at anyone right away.


I must admit this did make me laugh, I guess I appreciate sarcasm 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## krazyeone

Just receive an email regarding Suunto Spartan 
Seems a lot of lies and more marketing bla bla

"- Sport expertise and support for over 80 sports with racing and interval use "


----------



## PTBC

Just had an email from support saying that the mobile app is broken for GPS updates and watch has to be connected to a computer 3-4 times a week for better performance, I included the full text of the email on the firmware update thread.

Testing & communication aren't their strong points, right now an open beta with a dedicated forum for sharing information which Suunto contributed to could go some way towards easing tensions and uncertaintly


----------



## capcav73

PTBC said:


> Just had an email from support saying that the mobile app is broken for GPS updates and watch has to be connected to a computer 3-4 times a week for better performance, I included the full text of the email on the firmware update thread.
> 
> Testing & communication aren't their strong points, right now an open beta with a dedicated forum for sharing information which Suunto contributed to could go some way towards easing tensions and uncertaintly


You can see in watch settings the date of the SGEE data (menu settings, general, about) 
I check this before each move and I can affirm that Android app synchronize each time the proper uptodate data (according to watch information).


----------



## Cassote

JimmyKane said:


> Abandoned NO @Long_HAUL. I can assure you for that.
> Regarding the battery drain of 6% overnight: Let it drain to almost empty, charge full, recheck. Had this issue with every update. At start I returned 2 units (doing the update as soon as opening the box) because I though they where faulty. Then I realized that the battery needs calibration after the update. Like on most electronics (although its not noticable).
> 
> I would like to repeat:
> 
> Suunto is putting full power on SSU.
> 
> - Check interviews
> - Check facebook communities
> - Check testers
> - Check new products coming on the spartan platform
> - Check expansion of warranty
> 
> Please if you are really afraid that the product is abandoned please stop repeating that (it has been debated more than 30 times in only this thread). We got your fears. Let's discuss about something more constructive.


Twitter acount of suunto replies in minutes... the warranty extension was a big sign of confidence for me ...


----------



## Cassote

JimmyKane said:


> Abandoned NO @Long_HAUL. I can assure you for that.
> Regarding the battery drain of 6% overnight: Let it drain to almost empty, charge full, recheck. Had this issue with every update. At start I returned 2 units (doing the update as soon as opening the box) because I though they where faulty. Then I realized that the battery needs calibration after the update. Like on most electronics (although its not noticable).
> 
> I would like to repeat:
> 
> Suunto is putting full power on SSU.
> 
> - Check interviews
> - Check facebook communities
> - Check testers
> - Check new products coming on the spartan platform
> - Check expansion of warranty
> 
> Please if you are really afraid that the product is abandoned please stop repeating that (it has been debated more than 30 times in only this thread). We got your fears. Let's discuss about something more constructive.


Ph and I appreciate the suggestion on the battery consumption tip ... I'll try to work it out since I'm kinda obsessive compulsive with battery on my equipments , and now I'm trying to educate myself to charge only 2 a week


----------



## 604

LONG_HAUL said:


> Please stay in touch and keep posting! One aspect of coming here is to be constructive. But forums like this also offer an environment for the customers to unite on common issues and flawed products. The relevance of determining if WORK is being EFFECTIVELY put into the Spartan Ultra is the following: if it is not, they abandoned it without properly recalling it. The difference is clear: we receive zero reimbursement after purchasing a flawed product.
> 
> The points brought up by Jimmy are interesting but they do not contribute directly to my user experience. I expected first for all the basic functionality to be present from day one, that includes all data collected being accurate. Then I expected for the scheduled functionality upgrades to have been delivered by now. I'm under the impression none of that has been delivery, other than GPS/BLE sensors use configuration. That's it! I expected December to offer some added benefits to top off the product package as whole, and help understand training and recovery better.
> 
> At this point in time,, I cannot use the data the Spartan Ultra produces. What is worst: I have witnessed almost no change from the day it was released.
> 
> Because of that, I have changed from one of the most positive about the potential of the watch, to pointing out that the present status might be essentially as far as the Spartan Ultra is ever going to get.


Man, no offense... but you go from raving about great gps accuracy but never wanting to share a single run to ranting about it being an unusable watch.


----------



## PTBC

capcav73 said:


> You can see in watch settings the date of the SGEE data (menu settings, general, about)
> I check this before each move and I can affirm that Android app synchronize each time the proper uptodate data (according to watch information).


Mine shows as up to date despite only having been synced to phone, so either

A. support is talking rubbish (possible) or
B. the GPS data isn't being transferred properly, that is, it does transfer something and update the timestamp, just what it transfers is wrong
C. there is another problem which is fixed by updating from the computer, and they don't want to say what it is

My money is on B, though I will point out the watch showing a current timestamp for SGEE update in a reply to the ticket and see what the response is, also repeat the fact that I did sync it to a computer on the 11th to update the firmware and re-synced it afterwards on the computer and the move I sent them was on the 13th so within their timeframe.

Really though you have to wonder why the hell if this is the case they haven't sent out a notice to all users that they need to do this, by not notifying people they just think the update hasn't worked, become more frustrated and send in more tickets or return the watch etc.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

604 said:


> Man, no offense... but you go from raving about great gps accuracy but never wanting to share a single run to ranting about it being an unusable watch.


You have a point. And I owe big apologies to several posters here for all the miscommunications. But please remember that even Suunto pointed out not everyone has had the GPS issues from the start. I was not having GPS issues. And if you think about it, GPS issues aside, I have always indicated issues on BLE connectivity. The recent developments (or better yet, lack of them) have pushed me to accept that the untapped potential will simply remain untapped. Problem is I paid a bunch of money for the product.


----------



## PTBC

Cassote said:


> Twitter acount of suunto replies in minutes... the warranty extension was a big sign of confidence for me ...


Not everyone uses Twitter and Facebook and shouldn't be forced to, for a startup I can see it's a low cost and quick solution and would cut them some slack, for a company in Suunto's position no way and not for a premium price product


----------



## Jaka83

604 said:


> Man, no offense... but you go from raving about great gps accuracy but never wanting to share a single run to ranting about it being an unusable watch.


Don't feed the troll. Just add his profile to your ignore list like many of us have already done. If you ask me, he doesn't even own a SSU and is just here for attention and is wasting our time with bogus replies.


----------



## ifarlow

Cassote said:


> ...the warranty extension was a big sign of confidence for me...


Don't forget, the extended warranty is _only_ for devices sold during 2016. I would consider the extended warranty an attempt by Suunto to bolster sales of the Spartan for the rest of the year so they can inflate their holiday sales numbers. At the very least, it's Suunto's attempt to placate early purchasers for the trouble they are experiencing. Perhaps it's a bit of both, but my money is on luring the unsuspecting into purchasing the Spartan.


----------



## edit0r

nevermind....


Later edit : 

On second thought.... Guys, I decided to give up on this watch... for good.

Thank you all for being here 

Sorry for all my rants and criticism of the watch.... In my opinion the watch deserved it all the way.

I hope Suunto will make it right for you guys!

Good luck !


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Jaka83 said:


> Don't feed the troll. Just add his profile to your ignore list like many of us have already done. If you ask me, he doesn't even own a SSU and is just here for attention and is wasting our time with bogus replies.


Jaka ss!


----------



## PTBC

Jaka83 said:


> Don't feed the troll. Just add his profile to your ignore list like many of us have already done. If you ask me, he doesn't even own a SSU and is just here for attention and is wasting our time with bogus replies.


Credit where it's due, he did just apologize above and try to explain his reactions and shift in opinion...and his help on pool swimming intervals was more useful than Suunto support


----------



## Pegasus

ifarlow said:


> Don't forget, the extended warranty is _only_ for devices sold during 2016. I would consider the extended warranty an attempt by Suunto to bolster sales of the Spartan for the rest of the year so they can inflate their holiday sales numbers. At the very least, it's Suunto's attempt to placate early purchasers for the trouble they are experiencing. Perhaps it's a bit of both, but my money is on luring the unsuspecting into purchasing the Spartan.


Or they knew that most of us would have given up on it before anywhere near 3 years, don't need a warranty if it's in a draw unused 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cassote

PTBC said:


> Not everyone uses Twitter and Facebook and shouldn't be forced to, for a startup I can see it's a low cost and quick solution and would cut them some slack, for a company in Suunto's position no way and not for a premium price product


It's a valid point and I agree that to a customer owning a product , the support channels should be a priority . But the social network 
s are so mainstream nowadays , that I don't mind nor bother to chat with them there... I guess the bottom line and most important is to be able to speak and be heard ...


----------



## 604

PTBC said:


> Credit where it's due, he did just apologize above and try to explain his reactions and shift in opinion...and his help on pool swimming intervals was more useful than Suunto support


True. :-!

Look, to me it's simple. If you can afford the emotional ride of waiting for the upcoming updates, give the watch a chance. If not, stick with an Ambit or to your Garmin or Polar of choice. Software takes time. They're no idiots. They're not that big of a company and I'm sure they do care. It's too easy to judge from the outside.

Personally, I have put the Spartan through about 40 runs in all weather and conditions and I've only experienced the offset track issue once. It's was annoying, yes, and there's room for improvement and a lot is missing, no doubt, but when (or if) they fix these and the upcoming features are live, it'll be badass. I still think it's badass now, but a betaish badass.

And last, customer support has been GREAT to me. You just got to remember they're people that want to be talked to nicely even if you're ....ing mad at the watch (trust me, when it bricked I was upset). It's easy to get pissed at the person you're talking to and it's not his/her fault. I've been understanding and they sent some goodies as an apology afterwards, and after I saw that the updates were being pushed back and I had already gifted my Ambit to my wife, asked them if it'd be possible to get a discount code to get another Ambit because I had expected interval training and other features to be ready by now, they replied nicely too and ordered another Ambit.

I'll be using my ambit for intervals and trails where I need navigation, probably for races where I want to have custom displays until it's ready, but I can see myself switching 100% to the Spartan down the line. I also got a Stryd for winter treadmill runs, so that will make instant pace spot on... still, the watch should handle it on its own, but I strongly believe that in 4/5 months it'll be solid.

And again, Garmin and others have plenty of extras such as FTP or LT threshold, personal bests on the watch, beacon sharing, moon calendar and stuff that I personally don't care that it doesn't have this at this price. I don't compare spec sheets, I just want an awesome running experience, and I don't regret the choice. Yet.


----------



## PTBC

604 said:


> True. :-!
> 
> Look, to me it's simple. If you can afford the emotional ride of waiting for the upcoming updates, give the watch a chance. If not, stick with an Ambit or to your Garmin or Polar of choice. Software takes time. They're no idiots. They're not that big of a company and I'm sure they do care. It's too easy to judge from the outside.
> 
> Personally, I have put the Spartan through about 40 runs in all weather and conditions and I've only experienced the offset track issue once. It's was annoying, yes, and there's room for improvement and a lot is missing, no doubt, but when (or if) they fix these and the upcoming features are live, it'll be badass. I still think it's badass now, but a betaish badass.
> 
> And last, customer support has been GREAT to me. You just got to remember they're people that want to be talked to nicely even if you're ....ing mad at the watch (trust me, when it bricked I was upset). It's easy to get pissed at the person you're talking to and it's not his/her fault. I've been understanding and they sent some goodies as an apology afterwards, and after I saw that the updates were being pushed back and I had already gifted my Ambit to my wife, asked them if it'd be possible to get a discount code to get another Ambit because I had expected interval training and other features to be ready by now, they replied nicely too and ordered another Ambit.


Glad it's been good for you.

I have been polite, I've been involved on their side of the fence (including process design and setup for service desks) so know how to interact with them, what they don't have is a consistent support process that acknowledges the issues people are reporting and communicates effectively with them. To date, despite multiple tickets (separate issues not just repeating the same issue) other than the brief website announcement (which was removed) I have had no official confirmation from support that there is a GPS bug. At the moment all I have had is a response to update to the new firmware a week after it was released (though I had already raised a ticket that new firmware had caused problems with compass etc) and when I responded that it hadn't worked I have a message that it's because the mobile app doesn't sync GPS (apparently not sure what I believe right now). I haven't even had an official notice of the extended warranty and it's not like they don't have my email from when I registered the warranty on the watch. It's frustrating and no way to run support for a premium product.

What I have had is Spartan advertising, which is pointless as I already own one, and seeing it list features I know it doesn't have isn't going to help either. Frankly I'm amazed it has won the awards it states they have won, 'progress beyond logic' is seeming a very apt slogan right now.
Also see the comments on an attempted return that was denied and user had to go through paypal claims process, not exactly a good way to deal with the issues, yes I know there is a return policy, but sometimes you have to do what is right not just follow policy. Extending the warranty is an example of doing what is right, shame they haven't managed to communicate it well and use it as part of managing the situation.


----------



## 604

I guess it's also a matter of who you end up stumbling upon in customer service too... It was somewhat obvious that their support system didn't provide them with the whole picture. The woman I talked to via twitter reached out to me a few days after I had already received my replacement unit to check if the issue had been solved. It was nice of her to ask, but it'd have been something they'd have been able to see. I appreciated the follow up anyways. I guess it's quite common that these internal tools don't get the same amount of love or prio in the backlog as the actual products, but they're very important too.

Similar thing with their automated marketing emails. After ordering the extra Ambit, today I received an email advertising the Spartan. They'd see I already have it. Still, I'd live with that while they have all their development power on the actual product.


----------



## PTBC

604 said:


> I guess it's also a matter of who you end up stumbling upon in customer service too... It was somewhat obvious that their support system didn't provide them with the whole picture. The woman I talked to via twitter reached out to me a few days after I had already received my replacement unit to check if the issue had been solved. It was nice of her to ask, but it'd have been something they'd have been able to see. I appreciated the follow up anyways. I guess it's quite common that these internal tools don't get the same amount of love or prio in the backlog as the actual products, but they're very important too.
> 
> Similar thing with their automated marketing emails. After ordering the extra Ambit, today I received an email advertising the Spartan. They'd see I already have it. Still, I'd live with that while they have all their development power on the actual product.


Likely they could see, as you said it was appreciated so the reach out either reinforced a positive experience or could have defused a negative one, quite possibly repairs/warranty replacement are a different group to first level support and have different processes. Good customer service management, bit like the waiter(ess) asking if you are enjoying your meal (ever notice how often you have a mouthful of food when they ask)

Automated advertising could be simplistic due it down to data usage/sharing, opt-in rules, permissions etc.


----------



## Cassote

604 said:


> I guess it's also a matter of who you end up stumbling upon in customer service too... It was somewhat obvious that their support system didn't provide them with the whole picture. The woman I talked to via twitter reached out to me a few days after I had already received my replacement unit to check if the issue had been solved. It was nice of her to ask, but it'd have been something they'd have been able to see. I appreciated the follow up anyways. I guess it's quite common that these internal tools don't get the same amount of love or prio in the backlog as the actual products, but they're very important too.
> 
> Similar thing with their automated marketing emails. After ordering the extra Ambit, today I received an email advertising the Spartan. They'd see I already have it. Still, I'd live with that while they have all their development power on the actual product.


Well , I guess we all received that email .... o already have a Spartan Ultra black , and bought with th HR , so I won't need another one


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## bruceames

I have read enough and am convinced that this watch will never be as accurate as the A3P. So I have ordered another A3P to use as a backup as I'm not optimistic that the Spartan 2 (or whatever they call it) will be as accurate either as I'm sure they have no plans to revert to the nub. Function over form for me! Anyway the spare watch will come in handy in case I don't want to recharge during long moves and instead just bring the spare instead of a charger (then merge the moves later).


----------



## Unperson

Pegasus said:


> Ok, who could possibly have thought that notifications that show for 5 seconds then disappear forever from the watch without notice that they ever existed and no way to see them again was a good idea?
> 
> That is beyond ridiculous, the decision making has been awful.


Well that may be your opinion but it's not mine. I agree on the general ridiculousness of the Spartan software maturity but I really don't need, nor want, my watch storage filled with text messages and agenda notifications. I see the notification feature as handy because I do not have to check my phone everytime I hear a ping. If I want to dive into messages I'll grab my phone, I can well understand a design decision to make the Spartan notification feature one of the 'fire and forget' type.


----------



## Cassote

Unperson said:


> Well that may be your opinion but it's not mine. I agree on the general ridiculousness of the Spartan software maturity but I really don't need, nor want, my watch storage filled with text messages and agenda notifications. I see the notification feature as handy because I do not have to check my phone everytime I hear a ping. If I want to dive into messages I'll grab my phone, I can well understand a design decision to make the Spartan notification feature one of the 'fire and forget' type.


If I wanted a smart watch I could've got an Apple Watch ... agree with you


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## bruceames

I use the Apple Watch as my day watch. The Spartan would be way too big for that and besides it does so much more in terms of smart watch features which I use extensively (such as voice text reply to messages and FB Messengers, on-the-fly driving directions without picking up my iPhone, boarding passes, etc, and of course the notifications).


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## Cassote

bruceames said:


> I use the Apple Watch as my day watch. The Spartan would be way too big for that and besides it does so much more in terms of smart watch features which I use extensively (such as voice text reply to messages and FB Messengers, on-the-fly driving directions without picking up my iPhone, boarding passes, etc, and of course the notifications).


Precisely , Apple Watch is a smart watch with some training destes (series 2 ) , and spartan is (or will be in some points) a sports watch with a couple smart features... 
for the spartan there's so much more that's important beside the notifications or even Watch faces...,


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## PTBC

Cassote said:


> Precisely , Apple Watch is a smart watch with some training destes (series 2 ) , and spartan is (or will be in some points) a sports watch with a couple smart features...
> for the spartan there's so much more that's important beside the notifications or even Watch faces...,


In terms of the market they are competing in these are becoming standard features and for some the fact they don't have to buy a smartwatch as well goes some way to justifying cost, simple matter of reviewing last couple of messages (no need to clog up memory) and music control along with a better alarm setting would likely satisfy the vast majority of needs and allow them to advertise it as 'smart' with phone integration, the fire and forget feels like they put it in just to satisfy the feature list. This is supposed to be a premium product with a premium price and it deserves better attention to detail than just ticking off a feature list requirement. I'd also add a do not disturb function or silent mode for meetings (and movies) and the option of disabling notifications during a move. I ran around a track and as I passed my car it would ping up notices as I approached and I was parked right by the lap marker which was a pain.

As can be seen looking at the threads here the updating of the apple watch to add fitness functions and swimming is going to impinge on Suunto I'd reckon that people who want a excercise only watch will go for something more basic (and cheaper) to supplement an apple watch rather than a Spartan, Suunto is effectively in a niche market already and needs to broaden its appeal rather than shrink it further. People have apparently bought the Fenix3 in droves despite poor reviews and GPS performance and right now Spartan isn't even competing with that let alone anything coming down the line.


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## LONG_HAUL

Cassote said:


> Precisely , Apple Watch is a smart watch with some training destes (series 2 ) , and spartan is (or will be in some points) a sports watch with a couple smart features...
> for the spartan there's so much more that's important beside the notifications or even Watch faces...,


Do you really think the Spartan Ultra will ever be a complete sports watch?

The Spartan Ultra presently is not a complete sports watch because it cannot even display and store data accurately. And that's why having more developed smart watch functions is even being mentioned here: as a temporary compensation for the obvious basic handicaps. If the SSU had met what it set out to achieve, we would not be wasting our time chatting about smart watch functionality. That's not why anyone here bought it. Beyond that, some of us here are convinced it will never really get to be a complete sports watch. THAT is the real issue.

What would it take for you to be convinced it has been abandoned? Another bogus firmware update? Then just wait.


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## Cassote

LONG_HAUL said:


> Do you really think the Spartan Ultra will ever be a complete sports watch?
> 
> The Spartan Ultra presently is not a complete sports watch because it cannot even display and store data accurately. And that's why having more developed smart watch functions is even being mentioned here: as a temporary compensation for the obvious basic handicaps. If the SSU had met what it set out to achieve, we would not be wasting our time chatting about smart watch functionality. That's not why anyone here bought it. Beyond that, some of us here are convinced it will never really get to be a complete sports watch. THAT is the real issue.
> 
> What would it take for you to be convinced it has been abandoned? Another bogus firmware update? Then just wait.


I have not said it was complete in any way, but the ways things are presented , why do you think it cannot be completed or corrected?! It's mostly (or probably entirely) software...

And to what extent is the interest of the brand to abandon spartan and to have such a backlash on them??! Makes no sense . Be patient .


----------



## Joakim Agren

EDIT: Incorrect post please delete!


----------



## Joakim Agren

Am I the only one that found the latest e-mail from Suunto to be highly provocative?

The head line said "Get To Know The Suunto Spartan Collection" and then in the e-mail you could read about the following rewards it apparently received:

"*SUUNTO SPARTAN ULTRA AWARDED AT OR*
Suunto Spartan Ultra won several awards at Outdoor Retailer in Salt Lake City including Gear Junkie's "Editor's Pick", Gear Institute's "Best of Show". Runner's World's "Best New Gear" and The Manual's Best Of Show"

First of all if a product such as this in it's current state can receive such awards then those rewards are corrupt and have ZERO credibility!:rodekaart

Secondly do Suunto have no morals any more? They know very well the really bad state of this product at the present time as well as in the near future time scale. And yet they pretend it is Sunshine and brag about these phony rewards to lure customers in. Suunto should be ashamed of themselves!:-|:rodekaarto|


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## johan6504

Joakim Agren said:


> Am I the only one that found the latest e-mail from Suunto to be highly provocative?
> 
> The head line said "Get To Know The Suunto Spartan Collection" and then in the e-mail you could read about the following rewards it apparently received:
> 
> "*SUUNTO SPARTAN ULTRA AWARDED AT OR*
> Suunto Spartan Ultra won several awards at Outdoor Retailer in Salt Lake City including Gear Junkie's "Editor's Pick", Gear Institute's "Best of Show". Runner's World's "Best New Gear" and The Manual's Best Of Show"
> 
> First of all if a product such as this in it's current state can receive such awards then those rewards are corrupt and have ZERO credibility!:rodekaart
> 
> Secondly do Suunto have no morals any more? They know very well the really bad state of this product at the present time as well as in the near future time scale. And yet they pretend it is Sunshine and brag about these phony rewards to lure customers in. Suunto should be ashamed of themselves!:-|:rodekaarto|


I felt exactly the same


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## Pegasus

Unperson said:


> Well that may be your opinion but it's not mine. I agree on the general ridiculousness of the Spartan software maturity but I really don't need, nor want, my watch storage filled with text messages and agenda notifications. I see the notification feature as handy because I do not have to check my phone everytime I hear a ping. If I want to dive into messages I'll grab my phone, I can well understand a design decision to make the Spartan notification feature one of the 'fire and forget' type.


All opinions are welcome.

I can see that keeping them clogging memory is no good but at least allow the user to see them and delete them if you are providing and advertising a notification function, when running you don't even know you got the notification as I'm sure a mosquitoes fart vibrates more than my watch does 

I think you either implement it in a useful way or leave it out. They managed it on the Ambit 3 and Traverse. They advertise the capability so make it useable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jimmysalvo

Joakim Agren said:


> Am I the only one that found the latest e-mail from Suunto to be highly provocative?
> 
> The head line said "Get To Know The Suunto Spartan Collection" and then in the e-mail you could read about the following rewards it apparently received:
> 
> "*SUUNTO SPARTAN ULTRA AWARDED AT OR*
> Suunto Spartan Ultra won several awards at Outdoor Retailer in Salt Lake City including Gear Junkie's "Editor's Pick", Gear Institute's "Best of Show". Runner's World's "Best New Gear" and The Manual's Best Of Show"
> 
> First of all if a product such as this in it's current state can receive such awards then those rewards are corrupt and have ZERO credibility!:rodekaart
> 
> Secondly do Suunto have no morals any more? They know very well the really bad state of this product at the present time as well as in the near future time scale. And yet they pretend it is Sunshine and brag about these phony rewards to lure customers in. Suunto should be ashamed of themselves!:-|:rodekaarto|


I have the idea that most people that bought the spartan are using it as a SmartWatch or something more. The average user will look more at the look then the functionality, I have a couple of friends that have the Spartan and they are very happy with it but they do some sporadic run or cycling. 
I think that Suunto will sell a lot of spartan even if the software needs a lot of work, they also know that the GPS will never be as good as the peak but it doesn't matter, a good looking watch sells more the a gps accurate watch. 
Just my opinion


----------



## Unperson

Pegasus said:


> All opinions are welcome.
> 
> I can see that keeping them clogging memory is no good but at least allow the user to see them and delete them if you are providing and advertising a notification function, when running you don't even know you got the notification as I'm sure a mosquitoes fart vibrates more than my watch does
> 
> I think you either implement it in a useful way or leave it out. They managed it on the Ambit 3 and Traverse. They advertise the capability so make it useable.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well if it did work to a better extent on the Ambit it seems logical to expect the same, yes. I do not have any previous experience with other watches so I have no comparison.

But weakness of the vibration isn't something I have noticed, and with the curent weather I regularly wear the watch over a sleeve. When I do distance intervals (by setting the autolap to 200 or 400 meters) it works fine for me. Or is the vibration for a message weaker than for an autolap?


----------



## BobMiles

Unperson said:


> Well if it did work to a better extent on the Ambit it seems logical to expect the same, yes. I do not have any previous experience with other watches so I have no comparison.
> 
> But weakness of the vibration isn't something I have noticed, and with the curent weather I regularly wear the watch over a sleeve. When I do distance intervals (by setting the autolap to 200 or 400 meters) it works fine for me. Or is the vibration for a message weaker than for an autolap?


On the Ambit3 it was almost the same. There was a menu where you could look up old notifications, but it was so hard to get there that you'd rather get your phone. 
The message vibration is way weaker than training notifications. It is not really recognisable and there should be an user option to change it.


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## Pegasus

Yep the vibration is much weaker than button push vibrations or autolap etc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pegasus

Joakim Agren said:


> Am I the only one that found the latest e-mail from Suunto to be highly provocative?
> 
> The head line said "Get To Know The Suunto Spartan Collection" and then in the e-mail you could read about the following rewards it apparently received:
> 
> "*SUUNTO SPARTAN ULTRA AWARDED AT OR*
> Suunto Spartan Ultra won several awards at Outdoor Retailer in Salt Lake City including Gear Junkie's "Editor's Pick", Gear Institute's "Best of Show". Runner's World's "Best New Gear" and The Manual's Best Of Show"
> 
> First of all if a product such as this in it's current state can receive such awards then those rewards are corrupt and have ZERO credibility!:rodekaart
> 
> Secondly do Suunto have no morals any more? They know very well the really bad state of this product at the present time as well as in the near future time scale. And yet they pretend it is Sunshine and brag about these phony rewards to lure customers in. Suunto should be ashamed of themselves!:-|:rodekaarto|


I looked at those links but none of them seem to be actual tests, just awarded on the basis of specs and what the watch 'should' do maybe?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bryanredneck27

Pegasus said:


> I looked at those links but none of them seem to be actual tests, just awarded on the basis of specs and what the watch 'should' do maybe?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Those awards are just that - awards based on pure marketing specs... kind of like trump university  they got lots of on-line awards...


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## PTBC

jimmysalvo said:


> I have the idea that most people that bought the spartan are using it as a SmartWatch or something more. The average user will look more at the look then the functionality, I have a couple of friends that have the Spartan and they are very happy with it but they do some sporadic run or cycling.
> I think that Suunto will sell a lot of spartan even if the software needs a lot of work, they also know that the GPS will never be as good as the peak but it doesn't matter, a good looking watch sells more the a gps accurate watch.
> Just my opinion


Just looking at Spartan threads it seems that people were looking for watches that would work for day to day use as well as training/exercise, maybe it's that if you are going to spend this much money on something you don't want it to be something you use for a however many hours a week and put in a draw the rest of the time, either way there was clearly a perceived demand as Suunto (and others) have gone down that road in terms of features and styling and as has been noted it seems to have worked for the Fenix range.
Problem is that implementing something in a half-arsed manner just to tick a feature list isn't going to work, it's been noted that returns are high and I can't help thinking that better day to day functions may have persuaded some to hang on while issues were sorted out.
Yes they are secondary functions and I want the GPS sorted more than anything, but I think the state of these functions just adds to the whole what possessed them to release a watch in that state thoughts many are having and its adding to the lack of confidence in the development team delivering a polished item.


----------



## MoLu

Maybe a stupid and/or naive question: As suggested by the thread title most people here seem to be writing about the Ultra, but what about the Sport? Is there any (unexpected) difference between the two?


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## Jaka83

Maybe not a SSU specific question, but is there a way to delete manual lap markers and unwanted pauses in Movescount? And is it possible to combine two moves on Movescount?

Another thing ... I've got about 500 km left on a 1600 km trail from the Adriatic sea to Grossglockner and back (doing it in short segments mostly on weekends) - is there a way to show all the GPS tracks combined on a single map? I've tagged all the segments with the same tag and can display the cumulative distance, vertical etc., but would really like a map displaying all the segments at once. This kind of display would help me at figuring out what I've already covered and where the missing segments are and not to mention it looks super cool.
For now I've used a local Slovenian service which lets me import GPX files but it only displays the map of Slovenia and nothing for Italy and Austria ... plus the GPS vertical data is too rough so the ascent and descend are a bit off the charts compared to the barometric data from the Ambit and Spartan.


----------



## rdm01

Jaka83 said:


> Maybe not a SSU specific question, but is there a way to delete manual lap markers and unwanted pauses in Movescount? And is it possible to combine two moves on Movescount?
> 
> Another thing ... I've got about 500 km left on a 1600 km trail from the Adriatic sea to Grossglockner and back (doing it in short segments mostly on weekends) - is there a way to show all the GPS tracks combined on a single map? I've tagged all the segments with the same tag and can display the cumulative distance, vertical etc., but would really like a map displaying all the segments at once. This kind of display would help me at figuring out what I've already covered and where the missing segments are and not to mention it looks super cool.
> For now I've used a local Slovenian service which lets me import GPX files but it only displays the map of Slovenia and nothing for Italy and Austria ... plus the GPS vertical data is too rough so the ascent and descend are a bit off the charts compared to the barometric data from the Ambit and Spartan.


You can see all your tracks in a map if you linked to Strava. You can create at Strava your own heart map that basically shows that.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Jaka83

Thanks rdm01, I was hoping to stay within the Movescount realm because I really despise Strava.  I guess I'll have to take a look then and register there.

EDIT: DAMN! Registered on Strava and now I would need to export 77 moves to .tcx or .fit or .gpx and import to Strava to get my map ... nobody got time for this. Automatic sync only works for future moves.


----------



## borgelkranz

Jaka83 said:


> DAMN! Registered on Strava and now I would need to export 77 moves to .tcx or .fit or .gpx and import to Strava to get my map ... nobody got time for this. Automatic sync only works for future moves.


If you are on Android, you might want to give SyncMyTracks a shot. Worked for me...


----------



## martowl

borgelkranz said:


> If you are on Android, you might want to give SyncMyTracks a shot. Worked for me...


And if you are on iOS RunGap has many export/import features. You can even keep a Garmin Connect account synced with all of your moves from Movescount. Check it out.


----------



## gimegime

jimmysalvo said:


> I have the idea that most people that bought the spartan are using it as a SmartWatch or something more. The average user will look more at the look then the functionality, I have a couple of friends that have the Spartan and they are very happy with it but they do some sporadic run or cycling.
> I think that Suunto will sell a lot of spartan even if the software needs a lot of work, they also know that the GPS will never be as good as the peak but it doesn't matter, a good looking watch sells more the a gps accurate watch.
> Just my opinion


Agree with this 100%

And you can almost put your house on that the Fenix 5 will have a smaller battery life.

I think the market has moved towards looks over substance and real estate inside watches will be at a premium.

Will be interesting to see who focuses on what will become the niche segment of more substance (better GPS & battery) over style. I would buy an Ambit 3 Peak right now I'd I wasn't concerned Suunto would stop all development as they did with the Ambit 1

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BobMiles

Are we expecting an update this week? I am. It got really quiet since there were no news last week... I thought so when I read about their "new way to share update schedules", abandoning any specific release dates... 
A little heads up every week would be nice, even without updates.


----------



## jimmysalvo

gimegime said:


> Agree with this 100%
> 
> And you can almost put your house on that the Fenix 5 will have a smaller battery life.
> 
> I think the market has moved towards looks over substance and real estate inside watches will be at a premium.
> 
> Will be interesting to see who focuses on what will become the niche segment of more substance (better GPS & battery) over style. I would buy an Ambit 3 Peak right now I'd I wasn't concerned Suunto would stop all development as they did with the Ambit 1
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Switched already to a good, brandnew peak... It just the best IMHO at the moment.


----------



## krazyeone

gimegime said:


> Agree with this 100%
> 
> I would buy an Ambit 3 Peak right now I'd I wasn't concerned Suunto would stop all development as they did with the Ambit 1
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think that whey will stop development for A3P , at least for now


----------



## Jaka83

BobMiles said:


> Are we expecting an update this week? I am. It got really quiet since there were no news last week... I thought so when I read about their "new way to share update schedules", abandoning any specific release dates...
> A little heads up every week would be nice, even without updates.


I really hope so ... it's getting a bit boring looking at metrics I don't need and not having the metrics I need displayed during a move.


----------



## BobMiles

Jaka83 said:


> I really hope so ... it's getting a bit boring looking at metrics I don't need and not having the metrics I need displayed during a move.


Same here. However sport mode customization will still take time 
Graphs will be cool though!


----------



## d2i23

Jaka83 said:


> Maybe not a SSU specific question, but is there a way to delete manual lap markers and unwanted pauses in Movescount? And is it possible to combine two moves on Movescount?
> 
> Another thing ... I've got about 500 km left on a 1600 km trail from the Adriatic sea to Grossglockner and back (doing it in short segments mostly on weekends) - is there a way to show all the GPS tracks combined on a single map? I've tagged all the segments with the same tag and can display the cumulative distance, vertical etc., but would really like a map displaying all the segments at once. This kind of display would help me at figuring out what I've already covered and where the missing segments are and not to mention it looks super cool.
> For now I've used a local Slovenian service which lets me import GPX files but it only displays the map of Slovenia and nothing for Italy and Austria ... plus the GPS vertical data is too rough so the ascent and descend are a bit off the charts compared to the barometric data from the Ambit and Spartan.


MyGPSFiles
This one covers entire world


----------



## Cassote

Jaka83 said:


> I really hope so ... it's getting a bit boring looking at metrics I don't need and not having the metrics I need displayed during a move.


On twitter they use the same vague response as the info ar the website... that they are waiting for .... validation ... but there's no eta ( and I asked if there's going to be another update in November...) , so I'm afraid that nothing's coming ...


----------



## alfling

I just gave up for now. There's no point in waiting something that won't come anytime soon. I've just purchased some Chinese smartband for less than 20€ just to get through the winter, and I'll come back looking for proper watches next spring, when the Spartan will (hopefully) be what it was supposed to be from the beginning and Fenix 5 will hit the market. I'm not gonna bet 700€ based on faith


----------



## krazyeone

It's well know that new products from Garmin takes one year to be mature, now depends how many "bling bling" will Fenix 5 will have


----------



## Zabanya

Hopefully they release any update this week. It would be great if the new heart rate tracker on the screen which shows your current heart rate zone. Here's to positive thinking!


----------



## PTBC

Had a generic email regarding GPS, quite why it takes 2 weeks to generate I don't know, no dates on it though the only mention of time is 'future updates that will continue into the beginning of 2017' which is in reference to 'working continuously to implement optimizations' and that this is also valid for 'compass or synchronization issues'

If I was feeling harsh I could interpret that as being that the GPS issues aren't going to be fixed any time soon


----------



## Cassote

On the twitter account there's a notification of server maintenance tomorrow ... may there be coming something new after it ??!


----------



## PTBC

Cassote said:


> On the twitter account there's a notification of server maintenance tomorrow ... may there be coming something new after it ??!


There are a couple of things in coming soon which are movescount/server side so possibly related to those; some of the stuff like personal best etc. won't have any impact on the watch and may not need firmware update I guess


----------



## Cassote

PTBC said:


> There are a couple of things in coming soon which are movescount/server side so possibly related to those; some of the stuff like personal best etc. won't have any impact on the watch and may not need firmware update I guess


well, server side maintenance can be related also to something new that's needed to implement something new on the Watch , and they might be uploading new firmware as well ... I'm going to dig on Twitter past dates to see if this is one time only or not...


----------



## dogrunner

Cassote said:


> On the twitter account there's a notification of server maintenance tomorrow ... may there be coming something new after it ??!


Such an optimist


----------



## ifarlow

Cassote said:


> On the twitter account there's a notification of server maintenance tomorrow ... may there be coming something new after it ??!


So the update was done 7 hours ago, and... crickets.


----------



## MoLu

According to their own twitter it was more of a maintenance thing and for fixing bugs, not for new features.

Not sure right now, but did Suunto already previously say that the oHR might not come before 2017? Found a recent tweet by @movescount stating this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ifarlow

MoLu said:


> Not sure right now, but did Suunto already previously say that the oHR might not come before 2017? Found a recent tweet by @movescount stating this.


There used to be a notice on the Suunto web site on the Spartan page that a version of the Spartan Sport with optical heart rate would be available before Christmas. It was silently removed several weeks ago.


----------



## PTBC

ifarlow said:


> So the update was done 7 hours ago, and... crickets.


Possibly just their standard maintenance window then


----------



## ifarlow

Yep.


----------



## Cassote

There's the new "connect" thing I think that was the term , but nothing meaningful... but this maintenance may be paving the way to new stuff on the Watch


----------



## wydim

BobMiles said:


> Hard to keep a discussion constructive when theres nothing new to discuss about.
> There is the need for an open beta in terms of watch firmware. If you sell a product in beta state, at least be straight about it.
> It seems that their testing strategy was unsuccessful, so change it.
> I would be happy to test every single bug fix they put together.
> 
> But there is one big question that bothers me: How can suunto devs put a SSU on their wrist, look at it and say, yes, this is the best we can do. We did a great job on that static battery icon and look how you can't change your daily activity goals. Isn't that marvelous? It's so awesome that notifications never disturb you because we made the vibration so light that you always miss them, and forget about them because they come and go like nothing happened. And then check this out, after every lap summary screen, we go back to the main data screen instead of the one displayed last, this is especially awesome for navigation because users love changing screens all the time!
> 
> I'm sorry, but those aren't issues you find after a week or two, they jump at anyone right away.


ahahah, I love sarcasm.

I'm sooooooo happy to have held off buying this watch ! Right now looking at my ambit2 and I can't wait to log some serious workouts again !! it's my dead season (no more running outside and haven't started riding the cycle trainer).

I have been away from this forum for a couple of weeks now and I just finished (almost) catching up the unread posts of this thread. Boy, it doesn't look good for Suunto... I really hope they get their .... together and deliver something good in 2017.


----------



## PTBC

wydim said:


> ahahah, I love sarcasm.
> 
> I'm sooooooo happy to have held off buying this watch ! Right now looking at my ambit2 and I can't wait to log some serious workouts again !! it's my dead season (no more running outside and haven't started riding the cycle trainer).
> 
> I have been away from this forum for a couple of weeks now and I just finished (almost) catching up the unread posts of this thread. Boy, it doesn't look good for Suunto... I really hope they get their .... together and deliver something good in 2017.


In the DC Rainmaker winter roundup he only mentions Spartan in passing as in it wasn't worth including it on the list, hopefully stuff like that will mean more to Suunto than any spurious awards they are claiming to have received.


----------



## ifarlow

Ouch. From DC Rainmaker's roundup:

_Do keep in mind that this category is semi-heavy Garmin at the higher end, because quite frankly - neither Polar nor Suunto have released much at the high-end recently. Sure, Suunto released their Spartan Ultra this fall, but I don't wish that on anyone.

Finally, no, the Suunto Spartan isn't going to make this list anytime soon. Frankly, it's a disaster. Just go read my review on it for all the details there._


----------



## wydim

ifarlow said:


> Ouch. From DC Rainmaker's roundup:
> 
> _Do keep in mind that this category is semi-heavy Garmin at the higher end, because quite frankly - neither Polar nor Suunto have released much at the high-end recently. Sure, Suunto released their Spartan Ultra this fall, but I don't wish that on anyone.
> 
> Finally, no, the Suunto Spartan isn't going to make this list anytime soon. Frankly, it's a disaster. Just go read my review on it for all the details there._


yeah I know, I just read it this morning and I was like :"that's savage" lol... but true IMO.

People here that bought and positively enjoy their Spartan remind me of this experiment that I read about previously :

they made 2 test group and served them the same dinner plate. They told the first group that the plate they were going to eat was sold for "(insert high price here, lets say $60)" at some fancy restaurant. They told the second group this plate was served in a chain restaurant for (let's say $18). After they ate, participant were asked to rate and comment on the plate. Ratings and comments were significantly higher for the first group than the second goup. Why ? because they paid more for it, it must be worth more !

back to Suunto, At this point in time, I cannot fathom anyone who could reasonnably choose the Spartan over the Ambit3, knowing it's 2.5 times more expensive and only has a color touch screen to boast over the A3 which has so much more features and practically no bugs and just does what it's suppose to.

seriously, good luck everyone. I'll continue to read this forum because I enjoy reading forums  and I genuinely wish Suunto to get back in the game.


----------



## wydim

edit : duplicate


----------



## PTBC

wydim said:


> yeah I know, I just read it this morning and I was like :"that's savage" lol... but true IMO.
> 
> People here that bought and positively enjoy their Spartan remind me of this experiment that I read about previously :
> 
> they made 2 test group and served them the same dinner plate. They told the first group that the plate they were going to eat was sold for "(insert high price here, lets say $60)" at some fancy restaurant. They told the second group this plate was served in a chain restaurant for (let's say $18). After they ate, participant were asked to rate and comment on the plate. Ratings and comments were significantly higher for the first group than the second goup. Why ? because they paid more for it, it must be worth more !
> 
> back to Suunto, At this point in time, I cannot fathom anyone who could reasonnably choose the Spartan over the Ambit3, knowing it's 2.5 times more expensive and only has a color touch screen to boast over the A3 which has so much more features and practically no bugs and just does what it's suppose to.
> 
> seriously, good luck everyone. I'll continue to read this forum because I enjoy reading forums  and I genuinely wish Suunto to get back in the game.


Right now it's buying what it could be, the potential solution, possibly longevity factors in as it's the new platform Suunto are moving everything to going forward (complaints about A3P not receiving updates, etc.), I'm sure others can think of a handful of reasons on top of that.

Typically though if your buying future potential you would expect a discount factor which the Spartan pricing doesn't reflect, but then for tech being an early adopter is different from investing. An interesting question for users is would you have paid what you did for the watch if you had known what the development cycle would really be like (ignore GPS performance/bugs at this point, just look at features)?

I'm sure some people (based on comments on here) have decided to wait and see and buy it when features are working (or return it and see what the future is) as they know there is no premium attached to that decision (price isn't going to rise significantly), and maybe even savings if prices drop, not counting the time value of money. Usually the case as an early adopter in tech you are losing out somewhere, though engagement from manufacturer can be one way to offset that (as discussed open beta, feedback, community stuff, etc.) which Suunto seems to have ignored.


----------



## dogrunner

wydim said:


> ...
> 
> I'm sooooooo happy to have held off buying this watch ! Right now looking at my ambit2 and I can't wait to log some serious workouts again !! it's my dead season (no more running outside and haven't started riding the cycle trainer).
> 
> ...


My Ambit 2 works great in winter  Me, I'm only good to -20C or so (depending on wind  ). Winter is too long to be stuck indoors the entire time!


----------



## d2i23

dogrunner said:


> My Ambit 2 works great in winter  Me, I'm only good to -20C or so (depending on wind  ). Winter is too long to be stuck indoors the entire time!


Same here. Can't imagine not being outside.


----------



## Hecke

PTBC said:


> would you have paid what you did for the watch if you had known what the development cycle would really be like (ignore GPS performance/bugs at this point, just look at features)?


Pretty good question. 
The SSU was/is way over my spending ceiling. Still, I held off buying an Ambit3peak since I heard the first rumors about the Spartan. Of course, I expected it to top the Ambit in every aspect, as it is the newer, and more expensive option. After hearing that some of the features will be delayed, I was a bit disappointed, but could easily live with a month with an immature product. Had I known that the watch will not catch up on the Ambit any time soon, I had bought the blue sapphire A3peak. Now I own the Spartan, and cannot afford selling it and getting an Ambit, so I stick with it, keep on hoping that some day, all promises are met. 
When I bought the watch, and then filled the make-Spartan-stronger questionnaire, I even thought self written apps will come to the Spartan too. That hope is gone by now...
I am doing my best in pointing out stuff that I find worth changing. And crossing all my fingers that the team will eventually stumble upon a major bug in the GPS algorithms. If that works as precise as the Ambit, I am happy. Even without a lap-button in the stopwatch or music control.


----------



## ifarlow

PTBC said:


> An interesting question for users is would you have paid what you did for the watch if you had known what the development cycle would really be like (ignore GPS performance/bugs at this point, just look at features)?


Buying anything for what it _might_ do versus what it _actually_ does is never a good idea, and the Spartan is an unfortunate but perfect example of why.


----------



## wydim

dogrunner said:


> My Ambit 2 works great in winter  Me, I'm only good to -20C or so (depending on wind  ). Winter is too long to be stuck indoors the entire time!


Ohhh, Don't worry, I do plenty of winter sports (ski, snowshoeing), I meant serious training for my favorite sport which is triathlon (training starts in Dec/Jan.) I also practice indoor climbing intensively, but now I have to choose between indoor cycling or indoor climbing during winter since I had my baby last year.


----------



## Zabanya

I guess a "few weeks" maybe mean 3-4 weeks. I sometimes find it hard to understand why they have so many delays and no updates to their customers. Well, one more week of waiting.


----------



## Cassote

1 month between updates ? I wouldn't mind that , if they keep us posted on news and development status .... it would actually be a good move towards regaining confidencie of many people I think ....


----------



## IronP

IronP said:


> *IRONMAN "SUUNTO SSU FIASCO"
> *Hello guys, I bringing to you, my terrible experience that I had with my SSU, during the ironman on the 5/11 in florida.
> I already reported the issue to suunto via the official channel (6/11), but no response until now (Case number: 00750346.)
> So, about the experience:
> Before Start:
> -overnight charging
> -sync the watch with the mobile app 1h before competition start
> 
> Start competition:
> -initiated the triathlon mode to get the hr sensor link and the gps fix (5min before the start)
> 
> Swim start:
> -watch initiated normal
> -hr reported, flat at 31bpm (total failure)
> 
> Transition 1 & bike:
> -transition was normal
> -bike start went well, the SSU connected to the cadence sensor without problems
> -BUT, after 2h55min in the race, the SSU simply stopped working and went automatically to the normal watch mode! (i did not touch anything)
> -i noticed and started again a triathlon session, by skipping quick the swim and t1 and going direct to the bike....this worked!
> -BUT, again, after ca. 3h on the bike, the SSU stopped working and went to watch mode!! Very anoying!! At this stage, i was finalizing the bike leg, so i didn´t bother to re-start the watch.
> -hr reported normal
> 
> Run:
> -i did the run leg without problems, but I selected the run mode instead of the triathlon mode.
> -hr reported normal
> After the race, i simulate the triathlon mode and I could reproduce the problem in the triathlon mode! After ca. 3h, the watch reset and goes to watch mode automatically.
> Btw, the recorded session is kept, but recorded as "bike" session, but in fact, the swim, t1 and bike shows in the report at the movescount.
> 
> So, this is a clear BLOCKING bug at the triathlon mode for long distance! I cannot use this watch for my next competitions and suunto is just quite about it!
> Very very disappointed about it!
> I even cannot return the watch, because I have it since its release!


Suunto reply with:
Thank you for contacting Suunto Support.

We apologize for the inconvenience that this has caused you and we completely understand the situation. If we were in your situation we would be really frustrated as well.

Let us figure out the root cause of the problem by investigating the logs of the watch. We would like you to send us the logs from the watch by doing the following procedure:

1. Connect your watch to a computer and launch Suuntolink
2. Finish the sync process
3. Click on the cogwheel icon on the upper right corner of Suuntolink
4. Select Diagnostics
5. Click on Send Logs to Suunto

Once you have sent the logs, please reply to this email with your user name and email for your Movescount. Setting your Movescount Profile to Public will also greatly help our tech analysts find your logs in a quicker manner. Also, please provide us the URLs of the moves that encountered the issue so we can check the logs in a more specific way.

We look forward to your response so we can assist you further on this matter.


Sincerely,
Briann
Suunto Customer Support Team


----------



## PTBC

Standard reply, so that's about 2-3 weeks to receive a reply then (reported 6th I think you said) which is also about standard, most tickets they have acknowledged its about 2 weeks before they ask for logs and then if you're lucky in another 2 weeks there will be a we are working on it type reply.


----------



## Zabanya

I have been wondering, since the ssu is a gps watch, will it change its time and date depending on what country I am? Something like casio's gps watches? Or should I turn on its gps function like I'm running to help it locate me and change its time? Just wondering if I can bring my ssu in different countries and it adjusts automatically.

thanks!


----------



## np31

Zabanya said:


> I have been wondering, since the ssu is a gps watch, will it change its time and date depending on what country I am? Something like casio's gps watches? Or should I turn on its gps function like I'm running to help it locate me and change its time? Just wondering if I can bring my ssu in different countries and it adjusts automatically.
> 
> thanks!


My experience is that the time zone does not automatically adjust. Maybe it will come in a future version.


----------



## Zabanya

np31 said:


> My experience is that the time zone does not automatically adjust. Maybe it will come in a future version.


that's too bad, but yeah maybe in the future version. So it just gets the signal if your exercising but does not change time. oh well. Thanks!


----------



## krazyeone

This is basic functionality for any garmin 
Once you get an Gps fix it change the time acording to time zone
When clock was changed with one hour behind I had to connect to pc or Mobile app to have hour changed..


----------



## Zabanya

krazyeone said:


> This is basic functionality for any garmin
> Once you get an Gps fix it change the time acording to time zone
> When clock was changed with one hour behind I had to connect to pc or Mobile app to have hour changed..


That's true. Once a garmin device locks on to a gps signal, it automatically changes the time and time zone. Maybe we can contact suunto about it. Maybe trying to use exercise function to lock on to a gps signal can make it change the time.


----------



## Jaka83

krazyeone said:


> This is basic functionality for any garmin
> Once you get an Gps fix it change the time acording to time zone
> When clock was changed with one hour behind I had to connect to pc or Mobile app to have hour changed..


When the time changed between daylight saving time and regular, the SSU did that automatically for me, I didn't have to connect it to anything. I was pleasantly surprised because the Ambit did not do that and had to be synced to correct time.
As for the time zones, I haven't tested that yet because I haven't been traveling between time zones with this watch yet. But by other people's posts here, I guess it doesn't correct the time for the time zone it's in.


----------



## krazyeone

On Garmin Edge 810 there is an map file for timezone, but not sure that is used for adjusting time or for something else


----------



## borgelkranz

Does any one have problems with paired sensors? Today I realized that my SSU does not seem to activate my foot pod although it is paired and I selected the appropriate checkbox in the sport mode I use.

I have to let the SSU forget about the pod, pair it again, and activate the excercise to make it work. Feels wrong but I do not know if it is a problem with the pod or the SSU...


----------



## JimmyKane

Jaka83 said:


> When the time changed between daylight saving time and regular, the SSU did that automatically for me, I didn't have to connect it to anything. I was pleasantly surprised because the Ambit did not do that and had to be synced to correct time.
> As for the time zones, I haven't tested that yet because I haven't been traveling between time zones with this watch yet. But by other people's posts here, I guess it doesn't correct the time for the time zone it's in.


Same here, I was suprised! 
Polar either android wear did not do that until sync/connection to the phone.

Another thing to add here is that for example my laptop is at GTM+2 and my phone at current. I use my laptop for work (GTM+2) and I usually live in GTM+3 areas. Don't ask why, but this works for me the best (never confuse time with co-workers at slack for example). 
Whenever I had to sync a device with my laptop it would get the laptop time trying to be clever or even sync the activities after the time was synced resulting in chaos and even lost activities (polar).

Thank good lord this does not happen with SuuntoLink


----------



## Jaka83

borgelkranz said:


> Does any one have problems with paired sensors? Today I realized that my SSU does not seem to activate my foot pod although it is paired and I selected the appropriate checkbox in the sport mode I use.
> 
> I have to let the SSU forget about the pod, pair it again, and activate the excercise to make it work. Feels wrong but I do not know if it is a problem with the pod or the SSU...


I don't use a foot pod, but my indoor trainer power meter does not show data. It pairs and is selected in the sport mode, just shows -- during exercise and no data is recorded for it. I'll have to try and unpair the bike pod and use just the power meter with HR to see what's going on. My guess is, that the SSU still has problems with talking to three BLE devices at the same time.


----------



## borgelkranz

Jaka83 said:


> I don't use a foot pod, but my indoor trainer power meter does not show data. It pairs and is selected in the sport mode, just shows -- during exercise and no data is recorded for it. I'll have to try and unpair the bike pod and use just the power meter with HR to see what's going on. My guess is, that the SSU still has problems with talking to three BLE devices at the same time.


Thanks for the reply. I miss some feedback from the SSU on whether it succesfully paired the external sensor. Something like the symbol for the heart rate sensor would be grand... I tried a friends pod that gives visual feedback via a LED. Searching seems to take place after selecting an appropriate activity but only before starting it.

Think I'll hold out a little bit longer before giving in to my anger about myself that I (again) bought a new "product" that's actually in state of a prototype...


----------



## 604

I thought Suunto's release schedule would be every two weeks and that there'd have been something out this week, but seeing how these are spreading out, I don't think data display customization by sport will be released earlier than at least February. And interval training, probably not sooner than march or april either.

Important bugs take priority, I completely understand, but looking at their Spartan Gets Stronger page I just can't wrap my head around how their upcoming items (training plans on the Spartan to follow your progress and graphs for HR, speed and altitude) are the next items when display customization or intervals are missing.

I think I'll put my SSU on the shelf until at least data display customization is released. My hope after the delay was announced in october was that it'd still be out some time before the end of the year, but by now it seems quite unlikely. I'm the first one saying that the watch is promising and I'm willing to live through the updates, but display customization is a must, and it was originally planned for September (!!). I'm going back to the Ambit for my training until that's in place.

I'm cool getting surprise updates down the line, but I'm getting a bit tired of checking every now and then to see if it's getting any closer so I can setup the screens the way I want to.


----------



## Cassote

Well, I rarely have the possibility to swim , and probably I am going for a couple of swims tomorrow .... now I have a dumb question ... can I press buttons with the Watch underwater or wet?!


----------



## BobMiles

Cassote said:


> Well, I rarely have the possibility to swim , and probably I am going for a couple of swims tomorrow .... now I have a dumb question ... can I press buttons with the Watch underwater or wet?!


Yes of course! Touchscreen won't work but buttons do.


----------



## Jaka83

BobMiles said:


> Yes of course! Touchscreen won't work but buttons do.


I think he means if the watch remains waterproof if you press the buttons underwater. I have no idea, but remember that some watches have problems with sealing if you press the buttons while submerged.


----------



## BobMiles

Jaka83 said:


> I think he means if the watch remains waterproof if you press the buttons underwater. I have no idea, but remember that some watches have problems with sealing if you press the buttons while submerged.


I understood, and I'm pretty sure it'll stay waterproof. At least I never bothered on the Ambit3 and haven't on the SSU, both still dry on the inside  I haven't read anything about this in the manual, so I guess it shouldn't be a problem!


----------



## Unperson

It would be rather strange for a device that is waterproof to dozens of meters to have a problem with button presses. Suunto also makes diving watches, it'll be fine.


----------



## Cassote

I know for a fact that when Watch is wet , the touchscreen doesn't work (while showering for example) , and logically if you want to interact with the Watch the buttons are they way to do it (ps I really like the navigation the spartan)... 
but you know. Better safe than sorry , because if it doesn't stay waterproof , I have a broken Watch ...

thanks for all info and feedback


----------



## LONG_HAUL

borgelkranz said:


> Thanks for the reply. I miss some feedback from the SSU on whether it succesfully paired the external sensor. Something like the symbol for the heart rate sensor would be grand... I tried a friends pod that gives visual feedback via a LED. Searching seems to take place after selecting an appropriate activity but only before starting it.
> 
> Think I'll hold out a little bit longer before giving in to my anger about myself that I (again) bought a new "product" that's actually in state of a prototype...


In my opinion, this is more than good enough of a reason for the SSU to have made to top ten on this list:

Top 10 tech flops of 2016: Exploding phones, falling drones


----------



## IronP

IronP said:


> *IRONMAN "SUUNTO SSU FIASCO"
> *Hello guys, I bringing to you, my terrible experience that I had with my SSU, during the ironman on the 5/11 in florida.
> I already reported the issue to suunto via the official channel (6/11), but no response until now (Case number: 00750346.)
> So, about the experience:
> Before Start:
> -overnight charging
> -sync the watch with the mobile app 1h before competition start
> 
> Start competition:
> -initiated the triathlon mode to get the hr sensor link and the gps fix (5min before the start)
> 
> Swim start:
> -watch initiated normal
> -hr reported, flat at 31bpm (total failure)
> 
> Transition 1 & bike:
> -transition was normal
> -bike start went well, the SSU connected to the cadence sensor without problems
> -BUT, after 2h55min in the race, the SSU simply stopped working and went automatically to the normal watch mode! (i did not touch anything)
> -i noticed and started again a triathlon session, by skipping quick the swim and t1 and going direct to the bike....this worked!
> -BUT, again, after ca. 3h on the bike, the SSU stopped working and went to watch mode!! Very anoying!! At this stage, i was finalizing the bike leg, so i didn´t bother to re-start the watch.
> -hr reported normal
> 
> Run:
> -i did the run leg without problems, but I selected the run mode instead of the triathlon mode.
> -hr reported normal
> After the race, i simulate the triathlon mode and I could reproduce the problem in the triathlon mode! After ca. 3h, the watch reset and goes to watch mode automatically.
> Btw, the recorded session is kept, but recorded as "bike" session, but in fact, the swim, t1 and bike shows in the report at the movescount.
> 
> So, this is a clear BLOCKING bug at the triathlon mode for long distance! I cannot use this watch for my next competitions and suunto is just quite about it!
> Very very disappointed about it!
> I even cannot return the watch, because I have it since its release!


Now Suunto reply again...

Dear, 
Your Case 00750346 is now being analyzed by our colleagues at Suunto Headquarters.
As soon as we have a reply from them, we will get back to you.

Sincerely,
Customer Support Team
Suunto


----------



## Cassote

I have what seems too much battery drain and now I do not have local pick up service to send them my spartan....


----------



## Pegasus

The Spartan Gets Weaker......I mean Stronger page seems to have been abandoned, it's not even accurate from weeks ago, do they have some kind of factory shutdown?! It's beyond funny now, the feedback on progress is embarrassing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BobMiles

Pegasus said:


> The Spartan Gets Weaker......I mean Stronger page seems to have been abandoned, it's not even accurate from weeks ago, do they have some kind of factory shutdown?! It's beyond funny now, the feedback on progress is embarrassing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree fully. I spoke to suunto about this and they will only share update information when they release new stuff or make major progress... 
Not the right strategy in my eyes, especially when you have customers waiting (im)patiently with an half finished product.


----------



## krazyeone

Maybe they had initial plan to release FW every 6 months as Ambit 3 family


----------



## Pegasus

BobMiles said:


> I agree fully. I spoke to suunto about this and they will only share update information when they release new stuff or make major progress...
> Not the right strategy in my eyes, especially when you have customers waiting (im)patiently with an half finished product.


Exactly, I can be patient but I feel we are being treated like mugs at the moment, £500+ worth of watch and zero feedback is not acceptable to me.

If I acted the way they have in my profession I would have long been dismissed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jhonzatko

Hi guys!
I would like to ask, is there any way how to toggle light on/off only with buttons? That means without tapping display? 
I am new to Spartan Ultra (Titanium Stealth HR) and i am used from Ambit3 (Peak Sapphire) to buttons and don't like the touch display on watch. 
Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> Exactly, I can be patient but I feel we are being treated like mugs at the moment, £500+ worth of watch and zero feedback is not acceptable to me.
> 
> If I acted the way they have in my profession I would have long been dismissed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So much for the last update and.........

"We have also updated the way we share our development roadmap to show you what we are working on and how it is progressing. More specifically, we have updated our priorities into categories based on proximity to release. Coming soon means that a particular feature or functionality is nearing completion and our expectation is to release it, pending final validation, within the next few weeks."

Maybe we are supposed to infer from the absolute silence that it isn't progressing? And a few weeks means a month (at least?), but then it's such a vague term it adds no value.

Had another reply from support, again meaningless and contradictory, gone from saying don't use mobile app to sync SGEE to saying mobile sync has "been added very recently" so it's OK to use it and GPs is a high priority etc.


----------



## Cassote

Im having too much battery drain ... and they opened a ticket ... it takes about 1 day to respond .. Lets see how this goes ...


----------



## Jaka83

PTBC said:


> So much for the last update and.........
> 
> "We have also updated the way we share our development roadmap to show you what we are working on and how it is progressing. More specifically, we have updated our priorities into categories based on proximity to release. Coming soon means that a particular feature or functionality is nearing completion and our expectation is to release it, pending final validation, within the next few weeks."
> 
> Maybe we are supposed to infer from the absolute silence that it isn't progressing? And a few weeks means a month (at least?), but then it's such a vague term it adds no value.
> 
> Had another reply from support, again meaningless and contradictory, gone from saying don't use mobile app to sync SGEE to saying mobile sync has "been added very recently" so it's OK to use it and GPs is a high priority etc.


It's been 19 days since the last FW update. Maybe a couple of weeks means 3-4 weeks.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> The Spartan Gets Weaker......I mean Stronger page seems to have been abandoned...


Abandoned... ABANDONED... A.B.A.N.D.O.N.E.D...


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Looking at this page, my running coach certificate was all nice and good (so, if anyone wants my services, I'll be on Movescount for that soon  ), but I should have really gone into psychotherapy...


----------



## PTBC

Jaka83 said:


> It's been 19 days since the last FW update. Maybe a couple of weeks means 3-4 weeks.


It's one of those how pedantic do you want to be in defining a term that is vague by definition discussions, what I would say about a few weeks (and hopefully many would agree ) is.....

- It is more than 1 week, it is definitely a plural term
- It implies more than 2 weeks (or you would use 'a couple of weeks') though 2 weeks technically can be 'a few weeks'
- It implies less than a month (or you would use months not weeks as the unit of measure) though technically there's no reason it couldn't be more than 4 weeks, the fact that 'within a month' isn't used could imply a level of vagueness is required by using 'few' that could span more than a month
-It depends on what your lower bound definition of 'lots of weeks' is, so if 10 weeks sounds like a lot of weeks then few is less than 10 and so on

Basically it's a way to appear to make a commitment without actually making a commitment that you can be held to

Even knowing that there was a firmware candidate in beta testing would be something


----------



## PTBC

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Looking at this page, my running coach certificate was all nice and good (so, if anyone wants my services, I'll be on Movescount for that soon  ), but I should have really gone into psychotherapy...


You think there's more work in dealing with anguished Spartan users than in running coaching right now :0)


----------



## krazyeone

No , I dont thing SSU it's abandoned, I am afraid that they will drop soon suport for A3Peak


----------



## Cassote

PTBC said:


> You think there's more work in dealing with anguished Spartan users than in running coaching right now :0)


if it was not the battery drain. For me it would be working very nice... good gps track, good pairing with hrm ....

with th time I'll have some of the tools I want , and I'll be satisfied

thus sub , starting to look a lot like No Man's Sky on Reddit .....


----------



## mercuir0

they are working on it... although there are more updates for the Spartan Trainer (and that's ridiculous) they are adding really nice looking stuff, as altitude and pressure graph to the Ultra and Sport. also the battery symbol will be dynamic soon . the only really bad thing is that at least for me the gps performance is crap also with newer firmware versions... 60m offset where the ambit3 was spot on makes me cry sometimes...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

mercuir0 said:


> they are working on it... although there are more updates for the Spartan Trainer (and that's ridiculous) they are adding really nice looking stuff, as altitude and pressure graph to the Ultra and Sport. also the battery symbol will be dynamic soon . the only really bad thing is that at least for me the gps performance is crap also with newer firmware versions... 60m offset where the ambit3 was spot on makes me cry sometimes...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Some good and some not so good then with the biggest problem not being fixed, agree the fact they are pushing ahead with the Trainer right now is odd.
I mean they can hardly market it as having good GPS because the bump is back without it being seen as an admission of underlying Spartan problems and if they don't do that then the negative feedback on the Spartan is going to make product launch difficult. I know they would have had this developed and planned even before the Spartan Ultra launch most probably, but perception wise it doesn't look great. Imagine when it's out if it performs at A3P or above levels for GPS while the Ultra and/or Sport still isn't fixed (so it's effectively an Ambit with a Spartan screen/UI).


----------



## Pegasus

I'm going to speak with Suunto today and push for a refund, I really feel it's provable that they have failed to meet their side of the advertised functionality of this watch, I met mine as I paid in full.

They have had a fair amount of time and they continue to just apologise with no visible action as a result. I had hoped that they had changed 3 weeks ago regarding being transparent about what was being done but they have reverted back to saying nothing again.

The watch will be old tech by the time it's useable on the timeline we are currently following.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## borgelkranz

The progress tool seems to be online in Movescount. Refer to the Spartan gets stronger page.


----------



## Zabanya

New update is released in movescount. Next update is "coming soon", so it means another 3 weeks of waiting? I was really looking forward and hoping for a substantial watch update this week. tsk tsk


----------



## margusl

borgelkranz said:


> The progress tool seems to be online in Movescount. Refer to the Spartan gets stronger page.


Wohooo - 'You're in THE top 100 %' :-!
Poked around a bit, but isn't current implementation just a tool to compare apples with oranges? Or Maybe I'm just spoiled by Strava segments.


----------



## Cassote

It's about 4 weeks between movescount update at 3rd November ... maybe we have Watch update next week


----------



## marcomueller

borgelkranz said:


> The progress tool seems to be online in Movescount. Refer to the Spartan gets stronger page.


No Uptade for the Ssu. This is incredible Suunto. You do not even manage to keep so simple Uptades. I think the sports modes can be forgotten for this year. And the gps accurary since the last uptade also not better. Suunto, it's a shame !!!


----------



## krazyeone

margusl said:


> Wohooo - 'You're in THE top 100 %' :-!
> Poked around a bit, but isn't current implementation just a tool to compare apples with oranges? Or Maybe I'm just spoiled by Strava segments.


It's nice to have but nothing new or wow comparing to other sites like Strava ,Garmin connect , enodmondo etc
More than that Garmin watches have race predictor based on PB and other factors, but again...is nice to have 
Also I dont see half marathon or marathon PB

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## borgelkranz

krazyeone said:


> It's nice to have but nothing new or wow comparing to other sites like Strava ,Garmin connect , enodmondo etc
> More than that Garmin watches have race predictor based on PB and other factors, but again...is nice to have
> Also I dont see half marathon or marathon PB


In their FAQ they state:








With tongue in cheek: the first 10k race I did with my SSU is not in my personal bests. Make your educated guesses why... :roll:


----------



## IronP

IronP said:


> *IRONMAN "SUUNTO SSU FIASCO"
> *Hello guys, I bringing to you, my terrible experience that I had with my SSU, during the ironman on the 5/11 in florida.
> I already reported the issue to suunto via the official channel (6/11), but no response until now (Case number: 00750346.)
> So, about the experience:
> Before Start:
> -overnight charging
> -sync the watch with the mobile app 1h before competition start
> 
> Start competition:
> -initiated the triathlon mode to get the hr sensor link and the gps fix (5min before the start)
> 
> Swim start:
> -watch initiated normal
> -hr reported, flat at 31bpm (total failure)
> 
> Transition 1 & bike:
> -transition was normal
> -bike start went well, the SSU connected to the cadence sensor without problems
> -BUT, after 2h55min in the race, the SSU simply stopped working and went automatically to the normal watch mode! (i did not touch anything)
> -i noticed and started again a triathlon session, by skipping quick the swim and t1 and going direct to the bike....this worked!
> -BUT, again, after ca. 3h on the bike, the SSU stopped working and went to watch mode!! Very anoying!! At this stage, i was finalizing the bike leg, so i didn´t bother to re-start the watch.
> -hr reported normal
> 
> Run:
> -i did the run leg without problems, but I selected the run mode instead of the triathlon mode.
> -hr reported normal
> After the race, i simulate the triathlon mode and I could reproduce the problem in the triathlon mode! After ca. 3h, the watch reset and goes to watch mode automatically.
> Btw, the recorded session is kept, but recorded as "bike" session, but in fact, the swim, t1 and bike shows in the report at the movescount.
> 
> So, this is a clear BLOCKING bug at the triathlon mode for long distance! I cannot use this watch for my next competitions and suunto is just quite about it!
> Very very disappointed about it!
> I even cannot return the watch, because I have it since its release!


Hello folks,
So, Suunto admits that the SSU jamms in long distances triathlons, but they do not give any exact date for the fix!
Suunto also give no words about a possible refund of the watch (what i was expecting at this stage)!
If they really take serious this problem, they should release a public note stating that the watch will jamm if you use it for long distances at this stage! And not just let the customer experience this .... (sorry for the word) during a competition!


 
Thank you for your patience with case and we apologize for the delay in our response.

Our Performance Dept. have reviewed your case. The jamming incidents are already a crucial issue with the watch and our R&D Dept has already been notified about this. At the moment, the are putting all efforts to rectify this issue on the upcoming software updates for the Spartan Ultra. We ask for your kind understanding about this issue and we will do our best to release this updates as soon as possible.

With this said, we would like to offer some promotional items free of charge as a little compensation. We completely understand that this will not cover all the frustrations and inconvenience that you have experienced and we hope that you would still let us accompany you on your future training plans through our Suunto Spartan Ultra.

Please confirm your complete mailing address on where we will send the promotional items.

We appreciate your time,effort and cooperation as we strive to make your Suunto experience better.

Sincerely,
Briann
Customer Support Team
Suunto

_Check the latest software updates for your Spartan and the newest Movescount features and help us make the Suunto Spartan Stronger: _Suunto Spartan gets stronger via software updates


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> I'm going to speak with Suunto today and push for a refund, I really feel it's provable that they have failed to meet their side of the advertised functionality of this watch, I met mine as I paid in full.
> 
> They have had a fair amount of time and they continue to just apologise with no visible action as a result. I had hoped that they had changed 3 weeks ago regarding being transparent about what was being done but they have reverted back to saying nothing again.
> 
> The watch will be old tech by the time it's useable on the timeline we are currently following.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As you are in UK

Under the Consumer Rights Act all products must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described. 
The rules also include digital content in this definition. So all products - whether physical or digital - must meet the following standards:


*Satisfactory quality* Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question? For example, bargain bucket products won't be held to as high standards as luxury goods. 
*Fit for purpose* The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for, as well as any specific purpose you made known to the retailer before you agreed to buy the goods. 
*As described* The goods supplied must match any description given to you, or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase. 

I would assume that similar rules/laws exist throughout Europe

PS: Note the fact that standard is dependent on reasonable based on cost,etc. of the item, so in this case the high price point of the Spartan Ultra and some of the marketing language about quality etc. means your expectations would be higher than for a cheap watch


----------



## PTBC

borgelkranz said:


> In their FAQ they state:
> View attachment 10066178
> 
> 
> With tongue in cheek: the first 10k race I did with my SSU is not in my personal bests. Make your educated guesses why... :roll:


As I only have distances of 1km, 2km, 3km in my personal bests, that must mean I don't have 4km or 5km moves with a GPS performance good enough to register for selection. Also I have a 4.93km move on a 5km race (which counts as one of my personal bests for a section) so have asked what parameters they are using, is there any rounding and if for example 5km takes account of +/- meters.

Suunto must be totally blind to the irony of that statement that poor GPS would exclude moves with everything else going on


----------



## Pegasus

PTBC said:


> As you are in UK
> 
> Under the Consumer Rights Act all products must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described.
> The rules also include digital content in this definition. So all products - whether physical or digital - must meet the following standards:
> 
> 
> *Satisfactory quality* Goods shouldn't be faulty or damaged when you receive them. You should ask what a reasonable person would consider satisfactory for the goods in question? For example, bargain bucket products won't be held to as high standards as luxury goods.
> *Fit for purpose* The goods should be fit for the purpose they are supplied for, as well as any specific purpose you made known to the retailer before you agreed to buy the goods.
> *As described* The goods supplied must match any description given to you, or any models or samples shown to you at the time of purchase.
> 
> I would assume that similar rules/laws exist throughout Europe
> 
> PS: Note the fact that standard is dependent on reasonable based on cost,etc. of the item, so in this case the high price point of the Spartan Ultra and some of the marketing language about quality etc. means your expectations would be higher than for a cheap watch


I'm in the UK, I would sell it on eBay but it's a pretty hard sell right now!

Maybe 'has the ability to make you seem like you can fly' and is a 'functionally streamlined version of the Ambit 3 Peak' might sound good! 

Any marketing advice welcome 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wydim

borgelkranz said:


> In their FAQ they state:
> View attachment 10066178
> 
> 
> With tongue in cheek: the first 10k race I did with my SSU is not in my personal bests. Make your educated guesses why... :roll:


I too have a "wrong" 10k race best because my best race 10k move is logged with just short of 10km. Instead, they took the "fastest portion" of my half-marathon which is not exactly my fastest 10k. It's not ideal because I have almost never seen a 10k race be logged with at least 10 km in movescount. The watch ALWAYS gives a shorter distance (this is less true for long distance races because we often run a non-optimal trajectory).

BTW, I'm using an Ambit2 (not SSU), so the problem is not only GPS reception.

Maybe when the move type is RACE, and we could enter the distance manually, it could count the moves in the PB section. But in my 30 years experience with humans in general, this would lead to abuse and cheating.


----------



## PTBC

wydim said:


> I too have a "wrong" 10k race best because my best race 10k move is logged with just short of 10km. Instead, they took the "fastest portion" of my half-marathon which is not exactly my fastest 10k. It's not ideal because I have almost never seen a 10k race be logged with at least 10 km in movescount. The watch ALWAYS gives a shorter distance (this is less true for long distance races because we often run a non-optimal trajectory).
> 
> BTW, I'm using an Ambit2 (not SSU), so the problem is not only GPS reception.
> 
> Maybe when the move type is RACE, and we could enter the distance manually, it could count the moves in the PB section. But in my 30 years experience with humans in general, this would lead to abuse and cheating.


A simple rounding parameter of GPS distance +/- 10m would fix this problem, or more specifically a % error allowance so anything within say 98% of the target being included in the data set would make sense, given there's hopefully a factor for expected distance accuracy in Suunto's testing requirements and stats they could use that. Waiting to see what the response is from Suunto, but you would hope they had put at least that much thought into it and not just recorded distance=target distance, after all it's months late


----------



## wydim

PTBC said:


> A simple rounding parameter of GPS distance +/- 10m would fix this problem, or more specifically a % error allowance so anything within say 98% of the target being included in the data set would make sense, given there's hopefully a factor for expected distance accuracy in Suunto's testing requirements and stats they could use that.


I'm not so sure about that.

take for example : my 10k personnal best is 38:30 as timed by the race chip (and my ambit) but recorded move is 9.7 km. For Suunto's algorithm, this % error allowance that you speak of, do you suggest extrapolating the average pace of 9.7km and extrapolate for 10k, which would give a personal best of 39:41 (which is not true) or do you suggest taking 38:30 as my personal best (even if Suunto has recorded 9.7km) ? (if yes, then what about moves that are really 9.5 or 9.6 or 9.7 km (during training), how would they discard these since they are not the exact distance?

What I wanted to point out in my previous post is simply that this kind of "ranking" or "information" is flawed by design (by GPS data acquisition). Even STRAVA SEGMENTS are flawed (they do not take into account the initial speed at which someone enters a segment versus a real race that is a stop start.

All I want to say is : it's ok and I don't blame Suunto for this as the cause is not ONLY "poor gps reception"


----------



## Jaka83

I only see personal bests for cycling (I don't do running).
Keeping it short - I'm not a very fast or good cyclist, but these good results kind of surprised me.


----------



## PTBC

wydim said:


> I'm not so sure about that.
> 
> take for example : my 10k personnal best is 38:30 as timed by the race chip (and my ambit) but recorded move is 9.7 km. For Suunto's algorithm, this % error allowance that you speak of, do you suggest extrapolating the average pace of 9.7km and extrapolate for 10k, which would give a personal best of 39:41 (which is not true) or do you suggest taking 38:30 as my personal best (even if Suunto has recorded 9.7km) ? (if yes, then what about moves that are really 9.5 or 9.6 or 9.7 km (during training), how would they discard these since they are not the exact distance?
> 
> What I wanted to point out in my previous post is simply that this kind of "ranking" or "information" is flawed by design (by GPS data acquisition). Even STRAVA SEGMENTS are flawed (they do not take into account the initial speed at which someone enters a segment versus a real race that is a stop start.
> 
> All I want to say is : it's ok and I don't blame Suunto for this as the cause is not ONLY "poor gps reception"


I was thinking more of small adjustment of 1%-2% with maybe a max. value in m (so a 100km move wouldn't have a 1km-2km margin) to be used for total distances rather than for sections, so for a section it would have to be 10km, but for a 10km move a 9.9km move would still qualify as a 10km move for PB, a 10.1km move would meet the section distance anyway. Alternatively as you mentioned marking as Race would mean it approximated to the closest standard race length to the recorded distance, so a marathon that recorded so many metres short or long would still show as marathon distance in PB. In my case a Race with 4.93km would be included in 5km personal best, if 9.7km would fit an acceptable error margin for 10km I don't know.

Other than the update on Spartan stronger page have they done much to push this out? I haven't had an email and it didn't give me a message when I went into movescount that it was there


----------



## krazyeone

Jaka83 said:


> I only see personal bests for cycling (I don't do running).
> Keeping it short - I'm not a very fast or good cyclist, but these good results kind of surprised me.
> View attachment 10068330


1 km pb on cycling is irelevant, it can be on descent ...


----------



## BobMiles

@Jaka: We have almost the same times in the Cycling PBs! We should race some day 

Am I the only one devastated that there is still no watch update? The gets stronger page suggested that all those features are already in development - and you would expect that, with the watch being sold for half a year.
But telling from the updates they either struggle with their own code or haven't even started programming most of the features...


----------



## wydim

PTBC said:


> I was thinking more of small adjustment of 1%-2% with maybe a max. value in m (so a 100km move wouldn't have a 1km-2km margin) to be used for total distances rather than for sections, so for a section it would have to be 10km, but for a 10km move a 9.9km move would still qualify as a 10km move for PB, a 10.1km move would meet the section distance anyway. Alternatively as you mentioned marking as Race would mean it approximated to the closest standard race length to the recorded distance, so a marathon that recorded so many metres short or long would still show as marathon distance in PB. In my case a Race with 4.93km would be included in 5km personal best, if 9.7km would fit an acceptable error margin for 10km I don't know.
> 
> Other than the update on Spartan stronger page have they done much to push this out? I haven't had an email and it didn't give me a message when I went into movescount that it was there


I got an email around 10 AM (Montreal/New York time).


----------



## PTBC

Jaka83 said:


> I only see personal bests for cycling (I don't do running).
> Keeping it short - I'm not a very fast or good cyclist, but these good results kind of surprised me.
> View attachment 10068330


Look at all the cups & ribbons!

I love the 'You are in the top 90%' message I have for one PB, wonder how far it goes; does the slowest time say you are in the top 100%


----------



## Jaka83

krazyeone said:


> 1 km pb on cycling is irelevant, it can be on descent ...


Exactly my point. There are just too many variables in play to get something good out of these statistics. But hey, at least it's some way of making us push harder. There's a reason it's called *personal *bests. ;-)

@BobMiles
I rarely race - about three times per year at local marathons. Let me grab my gear and fly over for a race. :-d
Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed at this stage too. Still hoping for a Friday FW update on the watch. This is dragging way too slow.


----------



## margusl

wydim said:


> Maybe when the move type is RACE, and we could enter the distance manually, it could count the moves in the PB section. But in my 30 years experience with humans in general, this would lead to abuse and cheating.


Just upgraded my 5k running from top 70% to top 5% - some clickity-click and one of my bike commutes was magically transformed into running. Must have been quite relaxed ride as it was worth only silver for 1 km & 2 km
Welcome to the dark side, we have cookies >:]

Actually this is more of a response to Personal Bests FAQ - http://www.suunto.com/pbfaq 


> *Can imported data be used for progress and personal bests? (i.e. Garmin Connect).*
> No, imported data is not used because we cannot verify the quality of the data.
> 
> *Why does a personal best seem to be incorrect?*
> The personal best can be incorrect for example if you store a running session as a bike ride - or vise versa. However you can correct the personal best by editing the move and changing the activity to be the correct one.


So I guess they can verify quality of my choices when it comes to clicking that edit button in Movescount ...

Coming back to Strava, I personally think they have nailed estimated best, personal records and segment times in a quite impressive way. In strava, PR actually comes from manual user input (i.e. you take it from official race protocol) and iirc is only available for running. GPS activities are updating your estimate bests, indicating that those results are affected by GPS errors. And segment times actually provide a way to compare comparable results, there are some flaws, but in most cases you get pretty good idea where you are compared to others. Movescount personal bests make only sens for running, but somehow they have chosen to go with exactly the same pattern for activities where terrain plays a massive role on section times.


----------



## margusl

PTBC said:


> Look at all the cups & ribbons!
> 
> I love the 'You are in the top 90%' message I have for one PB, wonder how far it goes; does the slowest time say you are in the top 100%


Yes! MTB ascent is my personal favorite :


----------



## PTBC

margusl said:


> Yes! MTB ascent is my personal favorite :
> View attachment 10069650


Guess that will teach me to try and make a sarcastic joke ;o)
Can't say they aren't trying to be positive by using 'top'

I'm assuming that the age group figure is the average for your group as in Jaka's post his times are lower than the age group number so if they were the best times it would be the age group number lower than his number.


----------



## krazyeone

Aha I forgot that i did not run an Half marathon with Suunto
I run today an Half marathon and now PB is displayed
Strava said 1:47:18, maybe different algorithm for diatance calculation


----------



## Pegasus

Looks like the Ambit has a new firmware update that puts it even further ahead of the Spartan.

I'm beginning to wonder if the Spartan hardware is a problem because it is just not progressing at all, its all very strange.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## krazyeone

Pegasus said:


> Looks like the Ambit has a new firmware update that puts it even further ahead of the Spartan.
> 
> I'm beginning to wonder if the Spartan hardware is a problem because it is just not progressing at all, its all very strange.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't wory , I think this is latest fw from Ambit and most probably they will release today or next day an SSU firmware

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Cassote

Hmm hope so .... but somehow I'm thinking it'll land only next week


----------



## Joakim Agren

Just back from a visit in the town and I then also had a "windows shopping" visit to my local Suunto AD and I noticed all the Spartans were gone from the window which surprised me so I asked if the Spartans were selling well and she said no. She said they had a very high return rate so decided to stop selling the Spartans and return the remaining stock to the Suunto importer. This is the first time they had to do so since 1999 when Suunto was a brand new brand and many of the early Vectors had power drain issues. So this Spartan really is a mess for Suunto that is for sure...


----------



## Pegasus

Joakim Agren said:


> Just back from a visit in the town and I then also had a "windows shopping" visit to my local Suunto AD and I noticed all the Spartans were gone from the window which surprised me so I asked if the Spartans were selling well and she said no. She said they had a very high return rate so decided to stop selling the Spartans and return the remaining stock to the Suunto importer. This is the first time they had to do so since 1999 when Suunto was a brand new brand and many of the early Vectors had power drain issues. So this Spartan really is a mess for Suunto that is for sure...


I have a feeling there is more to it than just taking time with software, it's not progressing at all and does seem as if it's possibly hardware related. Unless they have one coder it can't take this long to implement basic functionality and improve GPS surely!

This post above doesn't sound good at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> I have a feeling there is more to it than just taking time with software, it's not progressing at all and does seem as if it's possibly hardware related. Unless they have one coder it can't take this long to implement basic functionality and improve GPS surely!
> 
> This post above doesn't sound good at all.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


GPS I can understand as diagnostics/problem solving takes as long as it takes, but basic functionality I agree is slow and was way behind at launch (alarm clock!), the only proviso being maybe they don't want to implement changes until they fix GPS bug as it's easier to troubleshoot from a static position rather than have to factor in latest changes as additional variables. Either way they aren't being transparent.
Am concerned though that hardware is a bigger issue than they want to admit to themselves, not so much antenna design (see below) as processing power/responsiveness and system integration maybe.
Regarding the antenna someone commented on another thread that they felt a Traverse (also non-bump) has better GPS than Spartan which I'm hoping means it's not the antenna as testing antenna design should have shown performance against previous design and find it hard to believe they'd use a new design if it didn't have some upside or at least neutral.
What has occurred me is that given the strap design and rigid small shoulders why antenna loop couldn't have been extended outside main case, so bump would just be smaller rather than totally gone? It's not like you are going to stick a standard strap on the thing anyway the way it's designed, anyone taken a strap off yet?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Joakim Agren said:


> Just back from a visit in the town and I then also had a "windows shopping" visit to my local Suunto AD and I noticed all the Spartans were gone from the window which surprised me so I asked if the Spartans were selling well and she said no. She said they had a very high return rate so decided to stop selling the Spartans and return the remaining stock to the Suunto importer. This is the first time they had to do so since 1999 when Suunto was a brand new brand and many of the early Vectors had power drain issues. So this Spartan really is a mess for Suunto that is for sure...


That could be debriefed/half of the story. It could be that Suunto themselves started to pull it from the market in a phased/controlled manner by providing outlets with an easy way out of having them in their inventories. My concern is that all this is going on behind the curtains and because not many people have the SSU now, they are not going to recall the watch. Remember: "updates" mean nothing if they don't hold added value/functionality. Even if we get another update, it is just a different version number and cosmetic change if it does not resolve GPS/BLE sensor issues.


----------



## oli70

I think they are just totally overhelmed with the whole situation. a long list of bugs, plus maybe really difficult tasks like gps and fused speed. its just another speculation... at the end we dont know whats really going on. i hope they can manage it somehow and they can get in a normal development rhytm without any rush, so they can deliver quality.


----------



## PTBC

oli70 said:


> I think they are just totally overhelmed with the whole situation. a long list of bugs, plus maybe really difficult tasks like gps and fused speed. its just another speculation... at the end we dont know whats really going on. i hope they can manage it somehow and they can get in a normal development rhytm without any rush, so they can deliver quality.


Alternative thought - maybe there is no point releasing functions if they will just highlight how bad the data is?


----------



## Pegasus

PTBC said:


> GPS I can understand as diagnostics/problem solving takes as long as it takes, but basic functionality I agree is slow and was way behind at launch (alarm clock!), the only proviso being maybe they don't want to implement changes until they fix GPS bug as it's easier to troubleshoot from a static position rather than have to factor in latest changes as additional variables. Either way they aren't being transparent.
> Am concerned though that hardware is a bigger issue than they want to admit to themselves, not so much antenna design (see below) as processing power/responsiveness and system integration maybe.
> Regarding the antenna someone commented on another thread that they felt a Traverse (also non-bump) has better GPS than Spartan which I'm hoping means it's not the antenna as testing antenna design should have shown performance against previous design and find it hard to believe they'd use a new design if it didn't have some upside or at least neutral.
> What has occurred me is that given the strap design and rigid small shoulders why antenna loop couldn't have been extended outside main case, so bump would just be smaller rather than totally gone? It's not like you are going to stick a standard strap on the thing anyway the way it's designed, anyone taken a strap off yet?


That's what I've been wondering, as you say, not so much antenna but actual processing power and memory space, lots of bugs seem to have happened on prolonged moves and when logs are potentially fuller. That may explain the lack of functionality, it just doesn't have the capacity. I would be amazed if that is the case as that's a massive oversight but I'm beginning to wonder.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jaka83

Pegasus said:


> That's what I've been wondering, as you say, not so much antenna but actual processing power and memory space, lots of bugs seem to have happened on prolonged moves and when logs are potentially fuller. That may explain the lack of functionality, it just doesn't have the capacity. I would be amazed if that is the case as that's a massive oversight but I'm beginning to wonder.


One would think they implemented at least as much memory as the A3P and more processing power for pushing more pixels and displaying more data at once. That would be a logical route, who knows what they did.

I won't be a pessimist and I'll just wait this one out. For me, it serves the purpose, but I'd love to have some more customisation. Beginning to sound like a broken record, I know.

I'm expecting a FW update tomorrow (Friday) or next week the latest. Sadly, the update will probably not include sport mode customisation.


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> That's what I've been wondering, as you say, not so much antenna but actual processing power and memory space, lots of bugs seem to have happened on prolonged moves and when logs are potentially fuller. That may explain the lack of functionality, it just doesn't have the capacity. I would be amazed if that is the case as that's a massive oversight but I'm beginning to wonder.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My random though was wondering if the screen and touch takes more system capacity than they thought as other than that most of the components are similar to other models (or even the same components like GPS chip)


----------



## IronP

PTBC said:


> My random though was wondering if the screen and touch takes more system capacity than they thought as other than that most of the components are similar to other models (or even the same components like GPS chip)


Hello,
even if some components are the same or similar, the spartan is the only one based on the new software platform from suunto.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> My random though was wondering if the screen and touch takes more system capacity than they thought as other than that most of the components are similar to other models (or even the same components like GPS chip)


But isn't that a basic/common portion of a proof-of-concept phase of designing? Are you saying they mass produced and marketed a "guess design" that should've worked?


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> But isn't that a basic/common portion of a proof-of-concept phase of designing? Are you saying they mass produced and marketed a "guess design" that should've worked?


You would think so and I did say it was a speculation, but consider the state of the firmware at launch, full system integration testing could have been limited; does anyone at this point think they had a full proof of concept working sports mode customisation in August that just needed finalising, optimiastion and release (which was implied in the release timescales)? The fact they released to market a watch with a major GPS bug, serious issues with recording data above a time or volume limit and a flaky compass doesn't exactly inspire confidence in product testing process.

Clearly something has gone wrong with the Spartan between design and manufacture/release


----------



## WEM

Reading your concerns and thoughts, I want to bring up one additional topic:
I've noticed that the configuration data (in JSON Format) contains all necessary things for customizing sport modes since longer time... also before first step of customizazion was released.


What if the real problem ist not on watch side but on movescount side? User interface not finished or working properly? Storage structure not readdy (performace issues?).


Also this is only speculations....


----------



## Joakim Agren

Just came across this picture:









What is that? A Spartan with a Ambit GPS hump? Interesting...:rodekaart:think: Do anyone have any info on this?


----------



## Pegasus

It's called the Spartan Trainer I think, has an optical HR on back.

Wonder what the '?' Is? Maybe it's means they don't know yet!

They show rest and recovery screen on the Spartan Ultra, not something I use but it's not available yet is it?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> They show rest and recovery screen on the Spartan Ultra, not something I use but it's not available yet is it?


Nah, that's just a mockup screen for marketing/design purposes. It doesn't mean it has ever been implemented. #RecallTheSpartanUltraNow


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> Nah, that's just a mockup screen for marketing/design purposes. It doesn't mean it has ever been implemented. #RecallTheSpartanUltraNow


From my dealings with them there is no way a recall will happen, they don't even acknowledge that functionality is lacking. Down to the customer to prove it seems from reading between the lines.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## capcav73

WEM said:


> Reading your concerns and thoughts, I want to bring up one additional topic:
> I've noticed that the configuration data (in JSON Format) contains all necessary things for customizing sport modes since longer time... also before first step of customizazion was released.
> 
> What if the real problem ist not on watch side but on movescount side? User interface not finished or working properly? Storage structure not readdy (performace issues?).
> 
> Also this is only speculations....


interesting!
I look rapidely into this json file.
Strange thing :
When a mode is configured in Best : GPS interval is 1. Normal.













When a mode is configured in OK : GPS interval is 60. OK.













But when a mode is configured in Good, GPS intervail is ....................... 10. Thought it is 1 with GPS power save ????


----------



## WEM

Yes - found same things... power safe is only set statically for some sport modes (e.g. walking).
GPS intervall is also strange...
Take also a look at the custom mode packages. Everything there for full customization....


----------



## BobMiles

Sorry, did I miss something? Where do you guys get the JSONs from?


----------



## capcav73

BobMiles said:


> Sorry, did I miss something? Where do you guys get the JSONs from?


In the suuntolink directory.


----------



## Cassote

That's very strange .... 

my spartan tan Ultra is going for maintenance on the next week because of high battery drain ... 

im having about 10h of better gps .... and watch mode about 6 days ... about half of what's supposed to be ...


----------



## np31

Pegasus said:


> It's called the Spartan Trainer I think, has an optical HR on back.
> 
> Wonder what the '?' Is? Maybe it's means they don't know yet!
> 
> They show rest and recovery screen on the Spartan Ultra, not something I use but it's not available yet is it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Speaking of the Spartan Trainer, here is what you can set on the "get stronger" page at the moment:

_We announced earlier this year that a wrist HR variant of the Suunto Spartan Sport would be launched for Christmas. 
We have postponed this launch until 2017, and will update with more details in the near future._


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> From my dealings with them...they don't even acknowledge that functionality is lacking.


The very official page for the Suunto Spartan Ultra shows little balloon notes saying "coming to Spartan soon" next to features advertised as being part of the watch. Those notes are acceptable a few weeks after release, but completely unacceptable a year later. Where do you draw the line? I drew the line when I realized last firmware update was completely bogus. As described online, it fails recording things as simple as a quick run indoors, to a multi-hour triathlon race.

#RecallTheSpartanUltraNow


----------



## divinours

WEM said:


> Yes - found same things... power safe is only set statically for some sport modes (e.g. walking).
> GPS intervall is also strange...
> Take also a look at the custom mode packages. Everything there for full customization....


On the Ambit3, GPS polling frequencies also do not match their description in the manual...


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> The very official page for the Suunto Spartan Ultra shows little balloon notes saying "coming to Spartan soon" next to features advertised as being part of the watch. Those notes are acceptable a few weeks after release, but completely unacceptable a year later. Where do you draw the line? I drew the line when I realized last firmware update was completely bogus. As described online, it fails recording things as simple as a quick run indoors, to a multi-hour triathlon race.
> 
> #RecallTheSpartanUltraNow


I'm still just about on the fence with the Spartan, I still can't believe it would be that much of a disaster as to be un-salvageable, Suunto can't go from making great products to an absolute disaster can they?!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cassote

Pegasus said:


> I'm still just about on the fence with the Spartan, I still can't believe it would be that much of a disaster as to be un-salvageable, Suunto can't go from making great products to an absolute disaster can they?!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That doesn't make any sense to me either .... I really hope they sort and solve their problems... I really like the feel of the Watch . The design and navigation through menus ...


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

LONG_HAUL said:


> Those notes are acceptable a few weeks after release, but completely unacceptable *a year later*.


 [my emphasis]

Uhm.


----------



## PTBC

WEM said:


> Reading your concerns and thoughts, I want to bring up one additional topic:
> I've noticed that the configuration data (in JSON Format) contains all necessary things for customizing sport modes since longer time... also before first step of customizazion was released.
> 
> What if the real problem is not on watch side but on movescount side? User interface not finished or working properly? Storage structure not readdy (performace issues?).
> 
> Also this is only speculations....


Except that movescount has an interface for changing sports modes on other watches, seems odd that the web UI would be the bottleneck in releasing the functionality, especially for so long.

One of the first things with troubleshooting/diagnostics is to consider what has changed, in that sense it could be lack of release for Spartan is that they want stability while they fix the data recording/storage and GPS bugs


----------



## rdm01

np31 said:


> Speaking of the Spartan Trainer, here is what you can set on the "get stronger" page at the moment:
> 
> _We announced earlier this year that a wrist HR variant of the Suunto Spartan Sport would be launched for Christmas.
> We have postponed this launch until 2017, and will update with more details in the near future._


AFAIK the leaked Spartan Trainer is a different product than Spartan Sport wrist HR. So I see the Spartan Trainer very far away yet


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pegasus said:


> I'm still just about on the fence with the Spartan, I still can't believe it would be that much of a disaster as to be un-salvageable, Suunto can't go from making great products to an absolute disaster can they?!


Have you seen the list of top 2016 flops I posted? Samsung mass produced a phone/bomb and GoPro mass produced a drone/guided projectile. It is a war for worst flop title out there... 

#RecallTheSpartanUltraNow


----------



## PTBC

New STRYD footpod power meter thing.......and what do we see

"


The Garmin environment is good-to-go with STRYD providing you get a CIQ-enabled watch.
Suunto's later AMBIT are good-to-go.
Polar needs to enable a power channel for running in the M600 and V800 and future watches.
Suunto need to sort out the SPARTANs properly pairing with STRYD v2 compatibility but are otherwise good-to-go.
"

Sadly it doesn't surprise me, as of now doesn't work properly with Spartan, but Ambits are ok, though even if it did work you couldn't display the metrics on the watch anyway.


----------



## j--l

PTBC said:


> [*]Suunto need to sort out the SPARTANs properly pairing with STRYD v2 compatibility but are otherwise good-to-go.
> [/LIST]
> "
> 
> Sadly it doesn't surprise me, as of now doesn't work properly with Spartan, but Ambits are ok, though even if it did work you couldn't display the metrics on the watch anyway.


What do you mean? Maybe I am missing something, but I have been using Stryd foot pod with Spartan and it works. You need to pair it as power pod and you can see watts in Running Power profile.


----------



## PTBC

j--l said:


> What do you mean? Maybe I am missing something, but I have been using Stryd foot pod with Spartan and it works. You need to pair it as power pod and you can see watts in Running Power profile.


Review I saw had the summary, also

"1Nov2016 - Suunto's SPARTAN ULTRA and SPORT do not read power from a footpod ie from this device. But they DO read it from a v1 STRYD chest strap. It might work when paired as a bike pod"

Maybe out of date then, was it fixed in the last firmware update, that was just after the 1st Nov.


----------



## j--l

^ It has been working all the time. That review has wrong info.


----------



## PTBC

j--l said:


> ^ It has been working all the time. That review has wrong info.


Thanks good to know


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> New STRYD footpod power meter thing.......and what do we see
> 
> "
> 
> 
> The Garmin environment is good-to-go with STRYD providing you get a CIQ-enabled watch.
> Suunto's later AMBIT are good-to-go.
> Polar needs to enable a power channel for running in the M600 and V800 and future watches.
> Suunto need to sort out the SPARTANs properly pairing with STRYD v2 compatibility but are otherwise good-to-go.
> "
> 
> Sadly it doesn't surprise me, as of now doesn't work properly with Spartan, but Ambits are ok, though even if it did work you couldn't display the metrics on the watch anyway.


Although you already have an answer, I know it works from other posts as well. However, with both the Ambit and the Spartan there appears to be a little difficulty pairing the Pod the first time. Mine paired perfectly as a PowerPod but did not work. I had to unpair the Movesense HR Pod, pair the Stryd footpod and then re-pair the Stryd as a PowerPod. If you pair the Stryd as a footpod it will not send power data so make sure you pair as a powerpod. There are several on the Stryd community forums using Spartans and the Stryd. Suunto released a trail running with power as well as the prior running with power to use with the Spartan and Stryd for running.

Hope this helps.

I should add the CIQ Garmin solution has its issues too. Folks on the Garmin side have had lots of trouble and think that Suunto has done the right thing by making the Stryd work natively for running. Using the Stryd IQ app limits a lot of other things you could normally do with the Garmins to get power to work.


----------



## paul1928

j--l said:


> ^ It has been working all the time. That review has wrong info.


 Seconded. My Stryd Summit foot pod is working just fine with my Spartan Ultra. Pair as power pod, activate power pod in the sports mode I want to use, power shows up when I'm running. Couldn't be simpler.

There are/were a few users in the Stryd forum I was helping with an issue but I don't _think_ any of them are still having issues once I explained the process: pair as power pod, activate power pod in the sports mode in MC, sync, start.

If anyone _is_ having issues, can you get some details to me?


----------



## PTBC

j--l said:


> ^ It has been working all the time. That review has wrong info.


If it's paired as a power pod do you still have all the foot pod metrics? Does it pass data other than power back to the watch?


----------



## snowleopardw

I swam in Freestyle, but my Spartan Ultra shows in Backstroke. Is it my action incorrect?
https://www.movescount.com/moves/move133210337


----------



## j--l

PTBC said:


> If it's paired as a power pod do you still have all the foot pod metrics? Does it pass data other than power back to the watch?


If paired as power pod: power and cadence, if paired as Foot Pod will send pace/distance/cadence.


----------



## PTBC

snowleopardw said:


> I swam in Freestyle, but my Spartan Ultra shows in Backstroke. Is it my action incorrect?
> https://www.movescount.com/moves/move133210337


Stroke type detection has been listed as a feature in updates at some point, as far as I'm aware it hasn't been implemented, but Movescount/Spartan does seem to randomly tag some laps with a style. Not sure where it is in current update plans.


----------



## PTBC

j--l said:


> If paired as power pod: power and cadence, if paired as Foot Pod will send pace/distance/cadence.


So strictly speaking there is a workaround, but it doesn't work properly; you can use it in power or foot pod modes, but not as a single unit that manages all the metrics (which I assume is how it's supposed to work). Other than that and hopefully that will be fixed soon how do you find it and using power and form analysis vs just having more accurate basic metrics for distance/cadence etc.?


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> So strictly speaking there is a workaround, but it doesn't work properly; you can use it in power or foot pod modes, but not as a single unit that manages all the metrics (which I assume is how it's supposed to work). Other than that and hopefully that will be fixed soon how do you find it and using power and form analysis vs just having more accurate basic metrics for distance/cadence etc.?


I would not say it doesn't work properly. It is more complicated than that. The Ambit and Spartan are identical with respect to Stryd functionality. The first Stryd (Pioneer) was an HR monitor and it parses both HR data and power appropriately. Stryd then came out with the Summit, which is a footpod. Since Suunto has their hands full with getting the Spartan where it should be they have not yet added full functionality to allow the footpod to operate both as a power meter and as a footpod. I don't know if they will implement this but I hope that they do. The Stryd Summit works great as a power meter OR as a footpod but not both. Most people don't need the pace and distance from the footpod since they get it from the watch.

As I said the functionality is identical for both the Ambit and Spartan so this is not a Spartan-specific issue.

I have been using the Stryd power meters extensively, both Pioneer and Summit. Check out my Movesount moves if you like. I use power for interval workouts. http://www.movescount.com/members/member9183-bradolwin


----------



## dogrunner

I have been using the Stryd footpod device for weeks with my Ambit 2. I followed the setup directions at the Stryd website, first paired it as a foot pod AND then paired it as a power meter. It works fine, I get both sets of data and maybe I'm missing something, but what else are people expecting it to do? I don't have an SSU, though.


----------



## borgelkranz

I am tinkering with the Stryd summit as well. I experienced that pairing it as footpod and powerpod doesn't work well with the SSU. When I did so, the power metric was no longer transmitted to the watch. At the moment the summit is paired as a powerpod and works reliably, it seems.


----------



## Cyberbob13

Has anyone ever speculated that the ongoing GPS and Compass problems may be related to the magnetic charger? Particularly in case GPS position determination is influenced by Compass performance.


----------



## BobMiles

Cyberbob13 said:


> Has anyone ever speculated that the ongoing GPS and Compass problems may be related to the magnetic charger? Particularly in case GPS position determination is influenced by Compass performance.


Yes we have... I think that the fused speed is messed up by improper compass readings and/or accelerometer readings. 
The compass is a mess, even without using the charger... I calibrate after charging,but they should just disable internal recalibration when they detect a charger and override it with old values stored before it was connected.


----------



## Cyberbob13

Then maybe most problems we are experiencing are related to the charging unit built into the device? I assume the magnet is in the charger itself but in order to work there should be plenty of iron mass in the connectors of the watch. I remember from my previous SSU that the magnet fix was extremely strong. This would explain why Suunto is so quiet about the underlying reasons for GPS problems. However, this does not explain why the track is totally off only from time to time and not always a mess.


----------



## PTBC

Compass seems to be very sensitive to interference, I used to have a little cable loop on my key ring that had small magnets to join the ends and it when I was testing the compass just walking in the street I found if I was carrying it in my pocket it would throw the compass in the spartan off


----------



## Cassote

Can anyone test with a small rubber/silicon strip put between Watch and skin ? The Watch charging dock alone may not be doing much , but what if the body electromagnetic field and current when in touch with the Watch dock ?


----------



## PTBC

Cassote said:


> Can anyone test with a small rubber/silicon strip put between Watch and skin ? The Watch charging dock alone may not be doing much , but what if the body electromagnetic field and current when in touch with the Watch dock ?


So those with bad performances have magnetic personalities.....not sure what that says about those with better performance ;0)


----------



## Cassote

PTBC said:


> So those with bad performances have magnetic personalities.....not sure what that says about those with better performance ;0)


Maybe , or it's just human natura . I once worked for Olympus , repairing cameras . O e of the first things you needed to do upon entering repairing facilities was to connectyourself thru a band in the wrist and stand in some stance in order to remove some sort of magnestism , only then you could work.

thats why I thought that while in contact with eh Watch this effect might occur


----------



## Jaka83

Cassote said:


> Maybe , or it's just human natura . I once worked for Olympus , repairing cameras . O e of the first things you needed to do upon entering repairing facilities was to connectyourself thru a band in the wrist and stand in some stance in order to remove some sort of magnestism , only then you could work.
> 
> thats why I thought that while in contact with eh Watch this effect might occur


It's not the magnetism you were getting rid of, it was static electricity - totally different thing. The "special" band just grounds you so you don't damage the circuit boards with a static discharge.


----------



## PTBC

Cassote said:


> Maybe , or it's just human natura . I once worked for Olympus , repairing cameras . O e of the first things you needed to do upon entering repairing facilities was to connectyourself thru a band in the wrist and stand in some stance in order to remove some sort of magnestism , only then you could work.
> 
> thats why I thought that while in contact with eh Watch this effect might occur


As said that is for static, but it's still a fair point to raise, system integration and an unexpected variation in how various parts of the system interact in a real world setting is a probable cause of problems.

Having previously owned a pebble I was surprised at how strong the magnet on the Spartan connector was, it's not lightweight


----------



## jhonzatko

Hi all! 
Please, do you know how to show time during activity? Didn't find it yet.


----------



## BobMiles

jhonzatko said:


> Hi all!
> Please, do you know how to show time during activity? Didn't find it yet.


Tap screen once.


----------



## jhonzatko

Thanks! Personaly i hate tapping the screens, so i use buttons only. Is there any way to do it, just with buttons?


----------



## rdm01

jhonzatko said:


> Thanks! Personaly i hate tapping the screens, so i use buttons only. Is there any way to do it, just with buttons?


No way

deporteporvida.com


----------



## jhonzatko

Seriously?! That's unbelievable ... The more i use Spartan, the more i see, how great and mature product the Ambit3 Peak was.
I'm really sad, that i can't send Spartan back ... 
Probably my first and last 'early buying'.


----------



## johan6504

jhonzatko said:


> Seriously?! That's unbelievable ... The more i use Spartan, the more i see, how great and mature product the Ambit3 Peak was.
> I'm really sad, that i can't send Spartan back ...
> Probably my first and last 'early buying'.


When we get Sport mode customization, one workaround would be to set one screen to show time. That is what I did on my Polar V800.


----------



## Pegasus

jhonzatko said:


> Seriously?! That's unbelievable ... The more i use Spartan, the more i see, how great and mature product the Ambit3 Peak was.
> I'm really sad, that i can't send Spartan back ...
> Probably my first and last 'early buying'.


I think most of us feel the same.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gousias

So, you don't think that it's a good choice for purchase? Mostly because until the end of 2016 it is offered an additional year of warranty and I am only thinking wtf aren't they going to improve it? Or not? On the other I am thinking if they will promote a new model but mostly when?


----------



## jhonzatko

From my point of view they can maybe add some new sw features. But the precision of GPS will be still the same. What is the sense of of additional year of warranty on product, which is not reliable und for the same price you have better solutions?


----------



## Pegasus

jhonzatko said:


> From my point of view they can maybe add some new sw features. But the precision of GPS will be still the same. What is the sense of of additional year of warranty on product, which is not reliable und for the same price you have better solutions?


That's the problem, an extra years warranty on something you can't use is really as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## marcomueller

No uptade for this week again! It's just more incredible!!!


----------



## nebri

The kind of GPS accuracy i need for my future suunto watch:
Move de 0:25 h de nebri em Corrida


----------



## jhonzatko

What device it was? Looks impressive!


----------



## nebri

jhonzatko said:


> What device it was? Looks impressive!


 An very old Amaryllo Purity Sirf III External Bluetooth GPS Receiver With An Android Phone.


----------



## Zabanya

They did say "coming soon", and based on their "coming soon", it is a 'few weeks' which is 3 weeks since last time. So maybe before Christmas? Updates now a days are very hard to come by.



marcomueller said:


> No uptade for this week again! It's just more incredible!!!


----------



## PTBC

Zabanya said:


> They did say "coming soon", and based on their "coming soon", it is a 'few weeks' which is 3 weeks since last time. So maybe before Christmas? Updates now a days are very hard to come by.


Last update for the watch was 10th November which is over 4 weeks ago, there have been app updates and movescount website updates, but they apply to all devices, promoting movescount website changes as an update on the Spartan get's stronger page is misleading if it is general functionality


----------



## iapyx

So a while back I got so excited that Suunto came with a successor for the Ambit. I definitely wanted a Spartan. I almost bought one, but it was a lot of money, so I waited. After reading the first post once the watch had come out the excitement got less. Never bought one. Still using the Ambit2. Was it a wise decision?


----------



## IronP

iapyx said:


> So a while back I got so excited that Suunto came with a successor for the Ambit. I definitely wanted a Spartan. I almost bought one, but it was a lot of money, so I waited. After reading the first post once the watch had come out the excitement got less. Never bought one. Still using the Ambit2. Was it a wise decision?


It was a wise decision from your side!
Keep training with your A2 or you could think of replacing it by a A3, but never go for the SSU!
Serious issues with this watch! It is really a managment mistake by suunto, to release such a watch to the market!


----------



## ifarlow

gousias said:


> ...I am only thinking wtf aren't they going to improve it? Or not?


Don't buy the Spartan (or anything else) because you hope it will be improved upon some time in the future or you will be disappointed and frustrated like so many others here.


----------



## PTBC

ifarlow said:


> Don't buy the Spartan (or anything else) because you hope it will be improved upon some time in the future or you will be disappointed and frustrated like so many others here.


Spartan feels like investing in a kickstarter project right now, but usually there's a discount for early adoption and the risk you are taking when you go that route, you expect to pay a premium and so expect more when you buy from an established company like Suunto

Have to say though the best customer service I've had in a long time was Shocke bikes which uses the kickstarter model for product launch and direct sales afterwards.


----------



## wydim

iapyx said:


> So a while back I got so excited that Suunto came with a successor for the Ambit. I definitely wanted a Spartan. I almost bought one, but it was a lot of money, so I waited. After reading the first post once the watch had come out the excitement got less. Never bought one. Still using the Ambit2. Was it a wise decision?


exactly the same story for me. And yes, wise decision.

I'll upgrade my A2 when find a new device that I think will help me be a faster runner or rider. That's the main reason I got the Ambit1 in the first place (to have a way to log training, have instant running pace, analyze cumulative distance per week, etc..

I upgraded to Ambit2 just because the store refunded me the price of the A1 because the HR strap wouldn't connect anymore. So I bought the A2. Haven't found a reason to upgrade to A3 yet.


----------



## jhonzatko

I will stick with Spartan till Fenix 5 will be available. Then I will see, how far is Spartan and if they fail to deliver all promised functions, goodbye Suunto.
Personaly i like Movescount web, i think is much better than Garmin Connect, but it doesn't matter ... will go to the other side.
I have had Fenix 3, it was great device, but the gps was very weak ... now i have Suunto, which is even worse (in term of gps precision).


----------



## PTBC

jhonzatko said:


> I will stick with Spartan till Fenix 5 will be available. Then I will see, how far is Spartan and if they fail to deliver all promised functions, goodbye Suunto.
> Personaly i like Movescount web, i think is much better than Garmin Connect, but it doesn't matter ... will go to the other side.
> I have had Fenix 3, it was great device, but the gps was very weak ... now i have Suunto, which is even worse (in term of gps precision).


Good advice, maybe shows why Suunto was eager to have Spartan out as once there was talk of Fenix replacement people would wait to see which was best, unfortunately by rushing it they have blown their early move advantage due to the problems


----------



## jeremy1271

jhonzatko said:


> I will stick with Spartan till Fenix 5 will be available. Then I will see, how far is Spartan and if they fail to deliver all promised functions, goodbye Suunto.
> Personaly i like Movescount web, i think is much better than Garmin Connect, but it doesn't matter ... will go to the other side.
> I have had Fenix 3, it was great device, but the gps was very weak ... now i have Suunto, which is even worse (in term of gps precision).


Same here. But don't forget you can import your Garmin activities into movescount, if you like it better


----------



## Cassote

Anyone on the betas have some info on glonass updates ?


----------



## rdm01

Cassote said:


> Anyone on the betas have some info on glonass updates ?


Ask to @mercuri0 He's an official beta tester or Suunto engineer I guess

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Ivan_Ivanusic

jeremy1271 said:


> Same here. But don't forget you can import your Garmin activities into movescount, if you like it better


They removed this feature few days after it was released...


----------



## krazyeone

They release a beta version in live environment, soon it will be available


----------



## Cassote

krazyeone said:


> They release a beta version in live environment, soon it will be available


Glonass or ther features ? It might help with the accuracy of gps tracking


----------



## krazyeone

Cassote said:


> Glonass or ther features ? It might help with the accuracy of gps tracking


I was talking about functionality to import fit files in Movescount


----------



## jeremy1271

krazyeone said:


> I was talking about functionality to import fit files in Movescount


By the time I had a fenix 3 I used "MX Activity mover" to import files from Garmin to Movescount. It worked great.


----------



## jhonzatko

+1 for MX Activity Mover ... works great


----------



## krazyeone

jhonzatko said:


> +1 for MX Activity Mover ... works great


but that is for OsX


----------



## jhonzatko

I'm not 100% sure now, but i think, it is java app? So it should work independently on OS ...


----------



## Hecke

wydim said:


> when find a new device that I think will help me be a faster runner or rider.


Like, new legs? [tonge in cheek]


----------



## jeremy1271

krazyeone said:


> but that is for OsX


It works great on windows 10. I don't have any apple device.


----------



## wydim

Hecke said:


> Like, new legs? [tonge in cheek]


lol yeahh.. or a device that let's me upload my training plans and intervalls workouts and live coaching guidance, and also bike power meter (left/right balance) because I'm planning to buy my a powermeter on my bike for next summer.


----------



## krazyeone

wydim said:


> lol yeahh.. or a device that let's me upload my training plans and intervalls workouts and live coaching guidance, and also bike power meter (left/right balance) because I'm planning to buy my a powermeter on my bike for next summer.


and why did you buy an unfinish product, because it was looking nice?

You need an Garmin for your needs

For bike you can use Edge 810 just fine , newest products are more la Ssu..


----------



## wydim

krazyeone said:


> and why did you buy an unfinish product, because it was looking nice?
> 
> You need an Garmin for your needs
> 
> For bike you can use Edge 810 just fine , newest products are more la Ssu..


You quoted me so I assume the question is directed at me. FYI, I did NOT buy the SSU, exactly for this reason. See my posts above.

I know the Fenix3 has everything I mentionned (power meter balance, training plans, etc..), but I try to make a distinction between my "needs" and my "wants". For now I'm happy with my perfectly working A2. I don't have another 800$ to spend on a watch. (next big buy is a powermeter, I've been checking them for 2 years !)

Garmin Edge is out of question as I also Run, swim, and practice plenty of other sports (I put my watch on my bike when I ride, but I don't want a dedicated biking device).


----------



## krazyeone

No , Fenix 3 is not the answer for you , an tri watch will do just fine, Fenix 3 its a great looking device but with has GPS accuracy inconstancy and sometimes crashes 
A lot of functionality means a lot of issues 

For me Edge will be on the bike no matter what watch I will have , just because I like big screen , touch function, mapping , training functionality , also for power is better to have larger screen (if you want to view not just record) ,strava segments, elevation , live tracking etc , also an round watch is not enough for biking 
I am using Suunto for biking when I just don't care about data and just for recording


----------



## wydim

krazyeone said:


> No , Fenix 3 is not the answer for you , an tri watch will do just fine, Fenix 3 its a great looking device but with has GPS accuracy inconstancy and sometimes crashes
> A lot of functionality means a lot of issues
> 
> For me Edge will be on the bike no matter what watch I will have , just because I like big screen , touch function, mapping , training functionality , also for power is better to have larger screen (if you want to view not just record) ,strava segments, elevation , live tracking etc , also an round watch is not enough for biking
> I am using Suunto for biking when I just don't care about data and just for recording


I find a tri watch like the 920xt is ugly in a workplace setting. Also, I've heard the Fenix3 also has had his share of inconsistencies with GPS and crashes.

I think it nice that we all have our preferences, makes for a great challenge for product designers ! For me, a simple round face like the A2 is more than enough (but the A2 lacks power meter left/right balance datafield). For strava segments, I have found a great app that works on my smartphone even when offline (I don't have a data plan). Live tracking (not for me...)

the perfect watch does not exist for 2 reasons : 1) the perfect watch is not the same for everybody. 2) the perfect watch is constantly changing, even for 1 particular user.

just to make sure I stay on-topic with this thread, I'll add : ".... but the Spartan is the farthest from a perfect watch in years !!!! " lol


----------



## Cassote

Well, my SSU went for servicing for having a battery drain issue ... and it has been replaced a new unit . 
Before , we hav shared hardware version , and we all have between G1 (used to be my case) and Im kinda curious because the new serial is way higher than before...

could have been implemented different hardware?


----------



## Zabanya

I am thinking if we will receive any updates before the year ends. Last update was November 10 and no changes have been done to the watch. I wonder if Suunto is also bothered by the delays or they just turned the other way and ignored people's pleas about the watch. I am bothered that they leave us in the dark about the updates. It would be better if they somehow post updates in their website regarding the changes and improvements they are making so we have an idea what's happening. Just my opinion.


----------



## ifarlow

Cassote said:


> ...Im kinda curious because the new serial is way higher than before...
> 
> could have been implemented different hardware?


Odds are "no". These clandestine hardware upgrade theories pop up all the time across many different products and are almost always in the imagination of those eagerly seeking reassurance that their hardware will, one day, work as expected. Expecting "upgraded" hardware simply because you got a higher serial number than before is akin to expecting hardware differences because a serial number includes "G2" versus "G1".


----------



## BobMiles

Zabanya said:


> I am thinking if we will receive any updates before the year ends. Last update was November 10 and no changes have been done to the watch. I wonder if Suunto is also bothered by the delays or they just turned the other way and ignored people's pleas about the watch. I am bothered that they leave us in the dark about the updates. It would be better if they somehow post updates in their website regarding the changes and improvements they are making so we have an idea what's happening. Just my opinion.


I'm with you on this. I already complained to suunto people about their miserable communication. However, they told me they are well aware of the social media and customers opinions and won't change a thing. That is, there'll be only news if there is an update. 
And In my opinion, that's how to piss people off. Put an 800 euro blackbox on the market.


----------



## Zabanya

BobMiles said:


> I'm with you on this. I already complained to suunto people about their miserable communication. However, they told me they are well aware of the social media and customers opinions and won't change a thing. That is, there'll be only news if there is an update.
> And In my opinion, that's how to piss people off. Put an 800 euro blackbox on the market.


That's how they responded about it? wow. I agree, being in the dark annoys people because of the uncertainty. I am not really sure what suunto is thinking, but they are losing more customers this way. Their "getting stronger" should be "getting stronger slowly." Maybe there are bugs in the watch, but I am still hopeful that the watch can deliver its potential. Hopefully we can get 2 more updates before the year ends. Wishful thinking.


----------



## PTBC

Zabanya said:


> That's how they responded about it? wow. I agree, being in the dark annoys people because of the uncertainty. I am not really sure what suunto is thinking, but they are losing more customers this way. Their "getting stronger" should be "getting stronger slowly." Maybe there are bugs in the watch, but I am still hopeful that the watch can deliver its potential. Hopefully we can get 2 more updates before the year ends. Wishful thinking.


Ignoring the Movescount updates the last 2 watch updates have been 12th October and 10th November so extrapolating that would make this week the likely candidate for a release, unless they have a breakthrough on the GPS bug they don't want to wait for then hopefully it's at least a monthly cycle. Transparency is not their strong point and you would think an important part of sales for a high-end sports watch is word of mouth and seeing it in real life use among peers etc. which they seem happy to ignore. When reviewers and owners main advice is not to buy the watch that has to hurt sales.


----------



## jhonzatko

From my point of view, Garmin public betas for Fenix 3 are much more customer friendly, even they sometimes have bugs and problems.
Suunto should get inspired there ...


----------



## Zabanya

PTBC said:


> Ignoring the Movescount updates the last 2 watch updates have been 12th October and 10th November so extrapolating that would make this week the likely candidate for a release, unless they have a breakthrough on the GPS bug they don't want to wait for then hopefully it's at least a monthly cycle. Transparency is not their strong point and you would think an important part of sales for a high-end sports watch is word of mouth and seeing it in real life use among peers etc. which they seem happy to ignore. When reviewers and owners main advice is not to buy the watch that has to hurt sales.


That's true. Maybe they are thinking that since a lot of people are having problems or returning their products, they are not that much in a hurry with the updates, and since the loyal customers are... loyal, they can wait for the updates as long as it takes. They are really screwing up the ssu. Well, maybe in the future we can all look back and laugh about our rants and give praises to how great the ssu really is.


----------



## PTBC

Zabanya said:


> That's true. Maybe they are thinking that since a lot of people are having problems or returning their products, they are not that much in a hurry with the updates, and since the loyal customers are... loyal, they can wait for the updates as long as it takes. They are really screwing up the ssu. Well, maybe in the future we can all look back and laugh about our rants and give praises to how great the ssu really is.


Problem is that development and support are a sunk cost so the more units you have to spread the initial cost over and ongoing cashflow (new sales) to fund support costs the better. Right now given the anecdotal information on returns and authorised retailers pulling the product then Spartan could be costing Suunto money or running at a loss as a whole.

Say a new antenna design costs $100,000 in terms of design, engineering, prototyping, testing and you expect to make 1,000 watches then you need to add $100 to the direct materials, labour and production costs to figure out what you've really made. If you only make 500 watches then you are still out the $100,000 and the watches have cost $200 each for antenna design.
Similarly assume I recover all my design costs on the initial release sales, but support costs are $10,000 a month and if my profit after materials etc. is $200 per unit then I need to sell 50 watches a month (600 a year) to cover the support cost or I'm losing money and eroding the profit I made on the initial sales.

One consideration for discounts late in the product life-cycle is that if all the costs have been recovered cutting the cost doesn't impact profit margins as much and the lower price point may encourage sales that provide revenue for continued support.

In summary, Suunto are acting stupidly (in my opinion)


----------



## marcomueller

Zabanya said:


> I am thinking if we will receive any updates before the year ends. Last update was November 10 and no changes have been done to the watch. I wonder if Suunto is also bothered by the delays or they just turned the other way and ignored people's pleas about the watch. I am bothered that they leave us in the dark about the updates. It would be better if they somehow post updates in their website regarding the changes and improvements they are making so we have an idea what's happening. Just my opinion.


My GPS (SSU G2) accurary has been a catastrophe since the last software update. Four of five workouts are completely adjacent. That's why I used the Suunto customer service yesterday. They told me:"No update for this week". They can't tell me exactly when the next is released. They seem to work on GPS updates too. When this update is published, they don't even know because there are difficulties in programming. It's really annoying.


----------



## Zabanya

marcomueller said:


> My GPS (SSU G2) accurary has been a catastrophe since the last software update. Four of five workouts are completely adjacent. That's why I used the Suunto customer service yesterday. They told me:"No update for this week". They can't tell me exactly when the next is released. They seem to work on GPS updates too. When this update is published, they don't even know because there are difficulties in programming. It's really annoying.


Wow... we don't have any update this week? Yeah gps needs improvement. I continuously bike and run on top of buildings and houses, but I think it depends on the location, some areas are accurate but there are areas that's really messed up. I was hoping for an update either today or tomorrow but this sucks. Probably that's the last update for the year.


----------



## Jaka83

Zabanya said:


> Wow... we don't have any update this week? Yeah gps needs improvement. I continuously bike and run on top of buildings and houses, but I think it depends on the location, some areas are accurate but there are areas that's really messed up. I was hoping for an update either today or tomorrow but this sucks. *Probably that's the last update for the year.*


Looks like it according to the quote from the "SPARTAN GETS STRONGER" page:


> Suunto is committed to providing you the best possible solution, and the Spartan solution will continue to improve with software updates scheduled for *September, October, November and December of this year*, and continuing into 2017. Here you will find information about the latest software updates, new Spartan features and Suunto Movescount functionalities. Give us your feedback and insights and let's make Suunto Spartan solution even stronger!


So yeah, one update per month.


----------



## PTBC

marcomueller said:


> My GPS (SSU G2) accurary has been a catastrophe since the last software update. Four of five workouts are completely adjacent. That's why I used the Suunto customer service yesterday. They told me:"No update for this week". They can't tell me exactly when the next is released. They seem to work on GPS updates too. When this update is published, they don't even know because there are difficulties in programming. It's really annoying.


I don't agree they have they have abandoned the platform, but as as user I'm certainly feeling abandoned by Suunto and their support


----------



## Cassote

suunto just released updates for peak and traverse .... looks like they are updating everyone else prior to spartan users


----------



## krazyeone

Maybe vertical , Peak and traverse where updated few weeks ago


----------



## darkshait

Today Galileo (European GPS) goes live, do you know if the SSU GPS chipset is compatible?

Edit: it is compatible! Maybe we hear good news from Suunto regading this


----------



## darkshait

Cassote said:


> suunto just released updates for peak and traverse .... looks like they are updating everyone else prior to spartan users


Probably with those two, Suunto is not in deep ....sh*t like they are with our Spartans


----------



## mercuir0

galileo just went online: http://m.esa.int/Our_Activities/Navigation/Galileo_begins_serving_the_globe

lets hope suunto will exploit the whole potential of the sirfstar v and enable the detection of galileo satellites soon. marketing wise having the first galileo enabled sport watch would definitely be a clever move for suunto - and we would probably have a strongly increased positioning accuracy....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## milkofamnesia

mercuir0 said:


> galileo just went online:
> 
> lets hope suunto will exploit the whole potential of the sirfstar v and enable the detection of galileo satellites soon. marketing wise having the first galileo enabled sport watch would definitely be a clever move for suunto - and we would probably have a strongly increased positioning accuracy....
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Well, GLONASS is still not enabled. Galileo might be added 2020, if this watch still exists..


----------



## Cassote

Well , my spartan Ultra just arrived ( new one after servicing ) and it's a G2 ... I'll start to check GPS accuracy in the next days since this is one of the things people pointing as bad in hat hardware version..


----------



## user_none

Cassote said:


> Well , my spartan Ultra just arrived ( new one after servicing ) and it's a G2 ... I'll start to check GPS accuracy in the next days since this is one of the things people pointing as bad in hat hardware version..


What's the way to check hardware version?


----------



## Cassote

user_none said:


> What's the way to check hardware version?


Options, general , about . And you have it there


----------



## Gerhard_73

what´s the difference between G1 & G2?
i´ve got a G1 and it works very well including GPS.


----------



## BobMiles

Gerhard_73 said:


> what´s the difference between G1 & G2?
> i´ve got a G1 and it works very well including GPS.


There is no perceptible difference. People get good and bad results with both G2 and G1


----------



## BobMiles

Just received a suuntolink update. Maybe there is hope for a watch update still? But nobody in their right mind would release an update on Fridays... But then again, it's suunto...
And then there is the changelog:


> Version 2.1.50 16.12.2016
> 
> Support for Spartan custom sport modes


----------



## milkofamnesia

@Suunto fb: "We'll be releasing the first phase of Suunto Spartan sport mode customization next week. To receive the upcoming update smoothly, make sure to update your Suuntolink to the latest version (2.1.50)"

Maybe tuesday, maybe.


----------



## ifarlow

The key phrase here is _first phase_. Something tells me that those looking for fully implemented sport mode customization next week will be disappointed. But hey, at least Noora posted on Facebook that they "are trying [their] best to work on the syncing issues". _Trying_. Awesome.


----------



## PTBC

ifarlow said:


> The key phrase here is _first phase_. Something tells me that those looking for fully implemented sport mode customization next week will be disappointed. But hey, at least Noora posted on Facebook that they "are trying [their] best to work on the syncing issues". _Trying_. Awesome.


Syncing has improved (for me at least) since the last iOS app update, though the fact that they broke it in the first place isn't encouraging


----------



## PTBC

Interesting comment on bloggers and product reviews on the 5k runner site, specificlaly he uses the Spartan to illustrate a point.....

"But the real problems with reviews of new products are many-fold. Take the under-featured Suunto SPARTAN or most newly released Garmins that, ahem, simply don't work properly eg the Edge 820 (Ray? review please. you did say it could be your new 'go to' device).

Most reviewers, like me, want to produce a review as soon as possible to get on the Google review rankings.

If the product is bad then that bad review is often on the internet forever. That is a problem Suunto have. To which I can see no solution other than rebranding & upgrading their SPARTANs at some point.

6 months after a product is launched, the product is fixed and all featured-up&#8230;but the review is unchanged."

https://the5krunner.com/2016/12/15/rant-2016-the-problem-with-blogs-reviews-freebies/


----------



## rdm01

PTBC said:


> Interesting comment on bloggers and product reviews on the 5k runner site, specificlaly he uses the Spartan to illustrate a point.....
> 
> "But the real problems with reviews of new products are many-fold. Take the under-featured Suunto SPARTAN or most newly released Garmins that, ahem, simply don't work properly eg the Edge 820 (Ray? review please. you did say it could be your new 'go to' device).
> 
> Most reviewers, like me, want to produce a review as soon as possible to get on the Google review rankings.
> 
> If the product is bad then that bad review is often on the internet forever. That is a problem Suunto have. To which I can see no solution other than rebranding & upgrading their SPARTANs at some point.
> 
> 6 months after a product is launched, the product is fixed and all featured-up&#8230;but the review is unchanged."
> 
> https://the5krunner.com/2016/12/15/rant-2016-the-problem-with-blogs-reviews-freebies/


Razor sharp GPS...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

As a blogger, I've been wondering about that. And I tried to find out if they were worried, during the Suunto Summit...

Conclusion: Hard to tell.

Suunto's leadership just got re-shuffled, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Spartan had had something to do with it. At the same time, it did seem like there's a difference between the impression one gets from reading reviews and DC Rainmaker (re. returns) vs. ... I'm not sure, total sales? (The problem being that Suunto, as a part of Amer, isn't allowed to state results, other than those one will find in the Amer Sports financial statements, which aren't exactly detailed.)

Also, not everyone is as crazy about such products as the people who'll go online to research, read reviews, rave or rage.

On that point, I just published a post showing some of the results I have got with the Spartan, and getting ready to follow its development rather than get stuck on the initial impressions (and my initial review has slipped far in my "top posts" ranking... Whatever that may mean.).


----------



## Cassote

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> As a blogger, I've been wondering about that. And I tried to find out if they were worried, during the Suunto Summit...
> 
> Conclusion: Hard to tell.
> 
> Suunto's leadership just got re-shuffled, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Spartan had had something to do with it. At the same time, it did seem like there's a difference between the impression one gets from reading reviews and DC Rainmaker (re. returns) vs. ... I'm not sure, total sales? (The problem being that Suunto, as a part of Amer, isn't allowed to state results, other than those one will find in the Amer Sports financial statements, which aren't exactly detailed.)
> 
> Also, not everyone is as crazy about such products as the people who'll go online to research, read reviews, rave or rage.
> 
> On that point, I just published a post showing some of the results I have got with the Spartan, and getting ready to follow its development rather than get stuck on the initial impressions (and my initial review has slipped far in my "top posts" ranking... Whatever that may mean.).


Gerald, now that the update is announced for next week , can you lets us peek into some details configs , etc? I'm curious ....


----------



## Cassote

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> As a blogger, I've been wondering about that. And I tried to find out if they were worried, during the Suunto Summit...
> 
> Conclusion: Hard to tell.
> 
> Suunto's leadership just got re-shuffled, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Spartan had had something to do with it. At the same time, it did seem like there's a difference between the impression one gets from reading reviews and DC Rainmaker (re. returns) vs. ... I'm not sure, total sales? (The problem being that Suunto, as a part of Amer, isn't allowed to state results, other than those one will find in the Amer Sports financial statements, which aren't exactly detailed.)
> 
> Also, not everyone is as crazy about such products as the people who'll go online to research, read reviews, rave or rage.
> 
> On that point, I just published a post showing some of the results I have got with the Spartan, and getting ready to follow its development rather than get stuck on the initial impressions (and my initial review has slipped far in my "top posts" ranking... Whatever that may mean.).


Gerald, now that the update is announced for next week , can you lets us peek into some details configs , etc? I'm curious ....


----------



## buenosbias

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> On that point, I just published a post showing some of the results I have got with the Spartan, and getting ready to follow its development rather than get stuck on the initial impressions (and my initial review has slipped far in my "top posts" ranking... Whatever that may mean.).


Your post fits quite exactly with my own, much less systematic comparison between the SSU's and the A3P's GPS performance. My SSU does absolutely OK since the last update. But then I see the really bad tracks which people post here from their SSUs - as if there was a significant spread in precision from one unit to another.


----------



## Unperson

buenosbias said:


> Your post fits quite exactly with my own, much less systematic comparison between the SSU's and the A3P's GPS performance. My SSU does absolutely OK since the last update. But then I see the really bad tracks which people post here from their SSUs - as if there was a significant spread in precision from one unit to another.


My unit is OK for me too. Out of the 50 moves or so I got on it the vast majority were fine from a GPS point of view. But I could also zoom in on some bad moves, or a section in an otherwise goodlooking move that has me running on the water. I'm sure the ambit did better due to a better antenna but for me GPS is not a problem from a tracking point of view. I ony miss features at the moment, primarily GPS things like trackback and waypoints but also the sports mode things, better possibities to set distance targets, intervals and better features to train at a specific pace or in a specific heart rate zone. These are all things that should be possible on the SSU, it's all software but it's taking bloody forever.


----------



## gimegime

rdm01 said:


> Razor sharp GPS...
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Only a fool would take a recommendation of a reviewer who clearly states it's his first and only run ever with a device.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## martowl

Good News!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/809864694840303618


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> Good News!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/809864694840303618


Yes it is good they are reaching out to get help, but on the other hand also shows they are having problems fixing it as they are still talking troubleshooting. Four months after release and troubleshooting major GPS problem doesn't look good


----------



## Joakim Agren

martowl said:


> Good News!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/809864694840303618


This actually makes me more worried then calm about the situation. Why can they not figure it out themselves, why do they need his help?, Is this a sign we might have to wait quite a long while before it gets fixed (if it ever gets fixed)? Is this a way for Suunto to silence fellrnr by putting him under NDA?:rodekaart:think:


----------



## dogrunner

Or are they just recruiting experienced external, independent users with evidence of knowledge about use of such devices?
I would hardly call it good news, nor bad news, and maybe not even newsworthy.


----------



## BobMiles

If they have problems reproducing the GPS issues, they are either testing improperly or it might be a regional issue? It is interesting that some people get big offsets almost all of the time, while others don't. I never had a big offset, just some wobbling and deviation to one side. It would be interesting to see if enabling GLONASS changes the game...


----------



## margusl

BobMiles said:


> If they have problems reproducing the GPS issues, they are either testing improperly or it might be a regional issue?


GNSS test equipment can generally simulate any time, location and movement pattern, I don't believe any company developing and producing something related to sat-nav would try to get away with not owning a set or few. Yes, in dev.lab it is way more difficult to simulate exact conditions the watch has to cope, but there is no need to plan lot of expeditions across the globe just to test how watch behaves in full range of lat-long and/or when GPS/GLONASS coverage is less than ideal.


----------



## Unperson

BobMiles said:


> If they have problems reproducing the GPS issues, they are either testing improperly or it might be a regional issue? It is interesting that some people get big offsets almost all of the time, while others don't. I never had a big offset, just some wobbling and deviation to one side. It would be interesting to see if enabling GLONASS changes the game...


Since the chipset in the SSU also supports Galileo I'd rather have them focus on that, as Galileo has better accuracy than both GPS and Glonass. But in the end you want a unit that can use all three systems to come to the best positioning possible.


----------



## krazyeone

Unperson said:


> Since the chipset in the SSU also supports Galileo I'd rather have them focus on that, as Galileo has better accuracy than both GPS and Glonass. But in the end you want a unit that can use all three systems to come to the best positioning possible.


They have added Alarm clock after few months and you want to focus on Galileo...good luck with that


----------



## krazyeone

Check out new Firmware


----------



## BobMiles

krazyeone said:


> Check out new Firmware


Do you have a changelog? My spartan stronger page has changed but no info about the new fw!

Edit:
19th December - We are excited to deliver the first phase of sport mode customization. You can create and customize new sport modes on your Suunto Spartan from Suunto movescount.com. You can sync up to 19 new custom modes on your Spartan at a time. Each activity type (i.e. trail running) can have several different custom modes, including newly added metrics like altitude, temperature and PTE. Additional functionality will be added to sport mode customization in the new year.

This update also allows you to view planned moves on your Spartan, see altitude barometer graph in daily view, sport-specific summary screens, as well as set daily step and calorie goals on your Spartan.

As we release this update, we are testing a GPS-specific update to address inconsistent GPS behaviour experienced by some users. This update is planned for January


----------



## Hecke

Hi all, new firmware new separate discussion:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/spartan-ultra-sport-firmware-update-1-6-10-a-3858898.html

cu there


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Unperson said:


> ...as Galileo has better accuracy than both GPS and Glonass..


Shouldn't that be "will eventually have"? Fully operational in 2019. By then, I think the Spartan worries won't be worries anymore, just good old days.


----------



## Susiec

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Shouldn't that be "will eventually have"? Fully operational in 2019. By then, I think the Spartan worries won't be worries anymore, just good old days.


Galileo recent status change and is now operational..... https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-status/Constellation-Information


----------



## PTBC

Susiec said:


> Galileo recent status change and is now operational..... https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-status/Constellation-Information


Usable and available for commercial operations aren't necessarily the same thing


----------



## Susiec

PTBC said:


> Usable and available for commercial operations aren't necessarily the same thing


You are correct, but here's the official announcement. European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Galileo goes live!


----------



## PTBC

Relevant bit seems to be

*"More accurate navigation for citizens*: The Galileo Open Service will offer a free mass-market service for positioning, navigation and timing that can be used by Galileo-enabled chipsets in smartphones or in car navigation systems. A number of such smartphones have been on the market since autumn 2016 and they can now use the signals to provide more accurate positions. By 2018, Galileo will also be found in every new model of vehicle sold in Europe, providing enhanced navigation services to a range of devices as well as enabling the eCall emergency response system. People using navigation devices in cities, where satellite signals can often be blocked by tall buildings, will particularly benefit from the increase in positioning accuracy provided by Galileo"

"The Declaration of Galileo Initial Services means that the Galileo satellites and ground infrastructure are now operationally ready. These signals will be highly accurate but not available all the time. That's why during the initial phase, the first Galileo signals will be used in combination with other satellite navigation systems, like GPS.
In the coming years, new satellites will be launched to enlarge the Galileo constellation, which will gradually improve Galileo availability worldwide. The constellation is expected to be completed by 2020 when Galileo will reach full operational capacity."

I imagine sirfstar will still have to certify it before Suunto implements it in the device, just because the chip can receive the signal is just the start of the process, and based on the second statement 2020 seems to be when it will be considered fully operational, but for testing and as a 'additional' datapoint it will be usable from now onwards.


----------



## jhonzatko

Hi!

Regarding weak GPS, i would like to use my footpod (Adidas miCoach BTLE) for outdoor running, but i have the feeling, that distance via footpod is little bit overestimated. Is there any way, how to calibrate the footpod (stride lenght for example)?


----------



## paul1928

No, the Spartan currently does not allow for calibration of the foot pod. The only way to get accurate speed/distance from a foot pod is to use the Stryd Summit (rather than a Dynastream like the Adidas) because it doesn't need calibration.


----------



## Cassote

Have anyone noticed a video in YouTube about glonass in YouTube for spartan ultra ?its been removed...


----------



## johan6504

Cassote said:


> Have anyone noticed a video in YouTube about glonass in YouTube for spartan ultra ?its been removed...


Glonass is in beta. All beta testers are under non disclosure agreement. I guess someone said too much ...

Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


----------



## BobMiles

One question: How did you pair your stryd on the spartan - given you have one? As a foot Pod or power pod?


----------



## borgelkranz

BobMiles said:


> One question: How did you pair your stryd on the spartan - given you have one? As a foot Pod or power pod?


With the latest firmware on both devices I can pair it as footpod AND powerpod. I can then use it in sport modes EITHER as footpod OR as powerpod. So at the moment you must not select both checkboxes in any sportmode.

Sent from mTalk


----------



## BobMiles

borgelkranz said:


> With the latest firmware on both devices I can pair it as footpod AND powerpod. I can then use it in sport modes EITHER as footpod OR as powerpod. So at the moment you must not select both checkboxes in any sportmode.
> 
> Sent from mTalk


Thanks! I've paired it as both, too. But will I Get cadence from the Stryd when it's paired as power pod? And vice versa?


----------



## borgelkranz

BobMiles said:


> Thanks! I've paired it as both, too. But will I Get cadence from the Stryd when it's paired as power pod? And vice versa?


To my experience cadence comes from the summit in both profiles. However it seems to be broken since the last software update of the summit.
I configured the summit to transmit RPM but it seems to deliver SPM. Additionally during my last run, power dropped to zero and cadence was SPM before the power drop and RPM after the power drop. Weird!


----------



## Cassote

johan6504 said:


> Glonass is in beta. All beta testers are under non disclosure agreement. I guess someone said too much ...
> 
> Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk


That's why I thought it was strange .....


----------



## jhonzatko

And what was the result of this video? Was the gps performance better, with glonass on?


----------



## Cassote

jhonzatko said:


> And what was the result of this video? Was the gps performance better, with glonass on?


There was a error on playback , and today it has been deleted ...

but it on the 1.6.10 there has been some feedback on the beta update as beeing much more accurate (user said after some runs and walks ) ... so , good news


----------



## matej123

Hi guys. i have been away for some time, so i wonder if there has been any improvements for the watch, longer battery time, gps and other fixes new functions.?


----------



## west_beach013

I've had my Spartan Ultra for 4 months now and I have to say that it excels over my old Suunto Core and Fenix 3 in several big ways. Specific workout tracking and recovery burn down, which is great for motivation and those who love to track/quantify everything (me). Improved GPS over my Fenix 3, read out is alot closer to true position and route is accurate. 

Two big draw backs. Battery life is still an issue at only 48hrs or less with heavy use of non-time functions. Less rugged than both the Core and the Fenix 3. The large touchscreen and lack of a protective bezel make me worried to take it climbing or anything where I might seriously scratch the screen. 

However, so far better than the core and my Fenix, but not as good as my old Vector, which is today still the best non-mechanical watches I've owned.


----------



## Unperson

west_beach013 said:


> Less rugged than both the Core and the Fenix 3. The large touchscreen and lack of a protective bezel make me worried to take it climbing or anything where I might seriously scratch the screen.


While the bezel will probably get scratched to hell and back I wouldn't worry about that screen, sapphire glass needs something insanely hard to scratch it. So unless you go climbing in diamond mines I don't think that's a worry


----------



## gousias

Bezel can be scratched though being from titanium?


----------



## Egika

Why do you think Titanium would be hard to scratch? It is just a lightweight strong metal.
Titanium is not very hard at all (Mohs hardness 6 out of 10) It can be scratched easily with a normal steel file.
Sapphire has a 9 with 10 only being Diamond


----------



## gousias

Didn't know that much details! I keep negative experiences from my Core Alu Deep Black but mostly I would like to see some photos of used Spartan Titanium Black just to figure out how easily can it get scratches compared to the Core Alu. Anyway though it's not the main reason for choosing the watch, it is one must say! Of course other issues should be fixed first and I'm waiting anxiously for these!


----------



## Unperson

I've got a titanium black and it has some minor scratches. They're too small to be noticeable on pictures though, I've tried taking some but they don't really show up, especially if using a flash in these dark days.

It all depends on how hands on your moves are. When only running or hiking (like me) it should mostly be fine, but I managed to scratch it, probably due to hitting the edge on a sink or something. If you put it on whilst going rock climbing I'd expect it to look very outdoorsy very soon 

The titanium is on the spartan because it is very light yet strong, not because it is very hard or scratchproof. The difference may only be a handful of grams but for a watch that ends up being more than a handful percentage wise. I mostly got it because I think it looks the best.


----------



## Hecke

Unperson said:


> I mostly got it because I think it looks the best.


Agreed. The titanium models look much cooler. 
A coworker (who knows a thing or two) told me that you can anodize titanium, whereas you cannot stain stainless steel (see?) to a different color. So, in order to have the bezel in a uniform color with the rest of the watch, steel is not an option. Aluminium is too weak, but titanium matches the criteria light, rather strong and colorable. 
He also explained the price difference, as anodizing the ring seems to be a tremendous effort.

If only I had the money back then...


----------



## likepend1

Don't want to create another thread: Fenix 5 is out!

h*ttps://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/catalog/product/compareResult.ep?compareProduct=552982&compareProduct=552237&compareProduct=560327&compareProduct=160512
(sorry, i am not able to post links :/ ... just remove the *)

5x model with 12GB storage (maps & round-trip function (like edge 1000)).

The also have the 5s (smaller) version - for smaller wrists (maybe for women or men, who prefer smaller watches).

I am now still using an Ambit (1) .... if the fenix 5 accuracy is any good .... it's gonna be a hard decision (and i love my Ambit!!!).


----------



## krazyeone

likepend1 said:


> Don't want to create another thread: Fenix 5 is out!
> \


Also I sow that are 3 case size 42 (5S small) , 47(normal 5) , 51 mm (5X )


----------



## likepend1

yeah!

find more infos here: w*ww.dcrainmaker.com/2017/01/hands-on-garmins-new-fenix-5-multisport-gps-serieswith-mapping.html

you are now able to use ANT+ & BT-low_energy sensors.


----------



## d2i23

The death of Spatan. Rest in Pieces


----------



## IronP

Fenix 5 seems that includes a gyroscope for an increased accuracy....looks promissing...!
R.I.P. Spartan...


----------



## wydim

IronP said:


> Fenix 5 seems that includes a gyroscope for an increased accuracy....looks promissing...!
> R.I.P. Spartan...


Guys, haven't you learned your lesson with new product releases ? wait a couple of months and then decide if it's worth $600-$700 .

Now, that being said, on paper, it really looks like a ..... I'll say it..... here it comes..... wait for it...... a Spartan KILLER !! When my ambit2 dies, I might be tempted by the dark side, like the Ring was drawn to Frodo, slowly but surely. I Will see if I can get rid of this feeling and toss the ring in the flames of mount Doom.


----------



## gousias

wydim said:


> Guys, haven't you learned your lesson with new product releases? wait a couple of months and then decide if it's worth $600-$700


If everyone waits a few months, then it will take more than few months to know if it's worthy!


----------



## Egika

IronP said:


> Fenix 5 seems that includes a gyroscope for an increased accuracy....looks promissing...!
> R.I.P. Spartan...


Maybe I don't get Gyroscope right, but isn't this just a sensor for rotation?
Something that my old Suunto S6 had to measure the slope angle??


----------



## wydim

gousias said:


> If everyone waits a few months, then it will take more than few months to know if it's worthy!


let the reviewers and beta-testers (early adopters) do their job. You know it's the right thing to do.


----------



## DarkImpurity

While this looks very good I actually dropped my Fenix 3 for the Suunto Spartan. The Fenix 3 couldn't generate a stable GPS track when standing still something the Spartan excels at. 

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


----------



## Pegasus

wydim said:


> Guys, haven't you learned your lesson with new product releases ? wait a couple of months and then decide if it's worth $600-$700 .
> 
> Now, that being said, on paper, it really looks like a ..... I'll say it..... here it comes..... wait for it...... a Spartan KILLER !! When my ambit2 dies, I might be tempted by the dark side, like the Ring was drawn to Frodo, slowly but surely. I Will see if I can get rid of this feeling and toss the ring in the flames of mount Doom.


Technically I thing Suunto killed the Spartan with their complete ineptitude.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## oli70

Not sure if fenix 5 will be the burner. A lot of marketing bla bla and nothing really new. design wise i think that spartan takes easy the win. lets see how the gps will perform...


----------



## BobMiles

I don't think the new fenix will be that much of a breakthrough... I have the spartan and I'm not happy with its current performance, but I wouldn't swap. It with a fenix 5x right now...


----------



## krazyeone

oli70 said:


> Not sure if fenix 5 will be the burner. A lot of marketing bla bla and nothing really new. design wise i think that spartan takes easy the win. lets see how the gps will perform...


...Spartan has only design and...that's it 
If Garmin will figure out how to use GPS+ Gyroscope then will be no problem with accuracy

They introduce a lot of new stuff , but we will see how it will perform 
Mapping and memory for 5X its a killer

*Battery:* Increased battery life up to 24 hours (Fenix 5) in GPS at 1s and 20hrs for 5X
*Battery:* Increased UltraTrac battery life to 75 hours (Fenix 5), with hopes of 100 hours

Beat that....


----------



## PTBC

Hecke said:


> Agreed. The titanium models look much cooler.
> A coworker (who knows a thing or two) told me that you can anodize titanium, whereas you cannot stain stainless steel (see?) to a different color. So, in order to have the bezel in a uniform color with the rest of the watch, steel is not an option. Aluminium is too weak, but titanium matches the criteria light, rather strong and colorable.
> He also explained the price difference, as anodizing the ring seems to be a tremendous effort.
> 
> If only I had the money back then...


Anodized aluminum is pretty hard surface layer as (this was explained to me once in very simple terms) the process flips the surface crystals into a more interlocking structure rather than the grainy structure normally found, it can also 'repair' very small scratches as the crystals move, titanium is still stronger, lighter, better overall material though more expensive to anodise as mentioned.
You can polish aluminum to a mirror finish, not easy and doesn't stay that way for long though


----------



## PTBC

krazyeone said:


> ...Spartan has only design and...that's it
> If Garmin will figure out how to use GPS+ Gyroscope then will be no problem with accuracy
> 
> They introduce a lot of new stuff , but we will see how it will perform
> Mapping and memory for 5X its a killer
> 
> *Battery:* Increased battery life up to 24 hours (Fenix 5) in GPS at 1s and 20hrs for 5X
> *Battery:* Increased UltraTrac battery life to 75 hours (Fenix 5), with hopes of 100 hours
> 
> Beat that....


Have to admit my first thought was 'wished I'd waited'
Unless GPS is worse than Spartan, not a high hurdle to beat at the moment, then I'd most likely pick the 5X over the Spartan Ultra


----------



## Egika

PTBC said:


> Anodized aluminum is pretty hard surface layer as (this was explained to me once in very simple terms) the process flips the surface crystals into a more interlocking structure rather than the grainy structure normally found, it can also 'repair' very small scratches as the crystals move, titanium is still stronger, lighter, better overall material though more expensive to anodise as mentioned.
> You can polish aluminum to a mirror finish, not easy and doesn't stay that way for long though


Titandioxide has a hardness of 7-7.5 or so.
Still not specifically hard and still easy to scratch.
That's how it is.


----------



## Egika

krazyeone said:


> ...Spartan has only design and...that's it
> If Garmin will figure out how to use GPS+ Gyroscope then will be no problem with accuracy
> 
> They introduce a lot of new stuff , but we will see how it will perform
> Mapping and memory for 5X its a killer
> 
> *Battery:* Increased battery life up to 24 hours (Fenix 5) in GPS at 1s and 20hrs for 5X
> *Battery:* Increased UltraTrac battery life to 75 hours (Fenix 5), with hopes of 100 hours
> 
> Beat that....


Hopes are always easy to beat..


----------



## PTBC

When you see screenshots of the Fenix with music control and lists of recent notifications it makes you realise how far Suunto has to go even with what should be basic additional functions


----------



## marcomueller

Would be cool if there come a card update for the Spartan as with the new Fenix 5x. I also hope a GPS update will take place realy soon. My GPS accurary has become so bad since the last GPS update that every run is partially out.


----------



## Cassote

PTBC said:


> When you see screenshots of the Fenix with music control and lists of recent notifications it makes you realise how far Suunto has to go even with what should be basic additional functions


Is this really the reason why we buy a Watch like this ?! For that people have Apple Watch, no ? I think there are more important things like point of interest navigation , a screen with abc tools plus temperature .... that's more important than to have notifications which I don't use and for music I just have my iPod ..


----------



## Egika

Luckily everyone has their own reasons to buy stuff. Some like music control, others don't. Some like step counters, others don't. Some like navigation, others just heart rate.
Whatever your preferences are - be assured others have different ones..


----------



## Pegasus

We don't buy a car for the stereo but it's nice to have 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cassote

It should be implied that it's only my personal opinion of course . Preference is preference and I was just pointing that are features more important than others (about the stereo comes in second (or third or last) when selecting the car , there are more important parts ... motor, suspension , even tires ... ) , his to the spartan ultra , I think it's more important to develop other tools first than that kind of feature . Once again , me speaking , for me only


----------



## BobMiles

I was going to say I don't care about fancy smart watch stuff, as long as the basics (sport related things) are properly done. 
However, I also have to say, nothing software related is properly done on the spartan. 

Still I think of the Garmin products a bit like it is with Samsung phones. Packed with functionality but cluttered and unfocused. I hope suunto gets things right, for if not, I don't know what to use except my ambit 3 peak.


----------



## PTBC

When you sell something as a 500GBP flagship model the market as a whole will have certain expectations of functionality, things people take for granted, if they aren't there they will be swayed by other products or view your product unfavorably (even if it's a function they wouldn't use a lot). I've seen car sales people point out that their model has a full size spare because some people don't like the small temporary spare wheels that come as standard in a lot of cases. There is a big difference between potential purchasers and existing purchasers and how they view features and functions and against the Fenix 5 Suunto is competing for new sales. There are most probably some people that pick the Fenix as it has quick swap replaceable bands and then never swap them, as a sales tool the pictures of the new mapping function are very compelling, and no-one know how well it will work yet.

Right now it's -7 and I'd like music control during my commute, 3 months ago it was a so what function, things change.

Originally posted this on the wrong thread.


----------



## gimegime

krazyeone said:


> ...Spartan has only design and...that's it
> If Garmin will figure out how to use GPS+ Gyroscope then will be no problem with accuracy
> 
> They introduce a lot of new stuff , but we will see how it will perform
> Mapping and memory for 5X its a killer
> 
> *Battery:* Increased battery life up to 24 hours (Fenix 5) in GPS at 1s and 20hrs for 5X
> *Battery:* Increased UltraTrac battery life to 75 hours (Fenix 5), with hopes of 100 hours
> 
> Beat that....


The 5 is not released until Q2. Based on past Fenix releases it will be 6 months minimum before they get intop of whatever bugs they introduce in this release. So you are looking at September to December before I would even look to purchase this watch.

The mapping is the big feature and there is zero evidence that Garmin has got this to work where they previously failed with the Epix. They literally have a dud in the market right now. Maybe they learnt from this and got it working, who knows.

Then if it does work what will maps running in the background do to the battery drain? They triple or quadruple the internal memory without any noticeable need (ie no music storage). It's just to run the mapping and I would bet the impact will be massive battery drain.

There are so many things that can go wrong with this watch. Maybe Garmin have nailed everything but I highly doubt it. Wait to see how this works in the wild but I suspect it will be 9-12 months before it's stable, if at all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gimegime

marcomueller said:


> Would be cool if there come a card update for the Spartan as with the new Fenix 5x. I also hope a GPS update will take place realy soon. My GPS accurary has become so bad since the last GPS update that every run is partially out.


Sorry what is a card update?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Egika

he means a map display function.

The German word 'Karte' translates to both 'card' and 'map'...


----------



## gimegime

Egika said:


> he means a map display function.
> 
> The German word 'Karte' translates to both 'card' and 'map'...


Ahhh thankyou 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## krazyeone

gimegime said:


> The 5 is not released until Q2. Based on past Fenix releases it will be 6 months minimum before they get intop of whatever bugs they introduce in this release. So you are looking at September to December before I would even look to purchase this watch.
> 
> The mapping is the big feature and there is zero evidence that Garmin has got this to work where they previously failed with the Epix. They literally have a dud in the market right now. Maybe they learnt from this and got it working, who knows.
> 
> Then if it does work what will maps running in the background do to the battery drain? They triple or quadruple the internal memory without any noticeable need (ie no music storage). It's just to run the mapping and I would bet the impact will be massive battery drain.
> 
> There are so many things that can go wrong with this watch. Maybe Garmin have nailed everything but I highly doubt it. Wait to see how this works in the wild but I suspect it will be 9-12 months before it's stable, if at all.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mind that mapping and navigation code can be added from Edge devices, also Fenix 3 I think that is stable , is not like they have 0 functionality as Spartan (sorry for being rude)

Yes usually 1 year before one new Garmin device is stable ...then they release another device


----------



## ascender

I think there's a nice balance somewhere which will be between a full-on smartwatch and a traditional Suunto product. But the Spartan seemed very muddled about what it was trying to be and I suspect in trying to be all things to all men they dropped the ball.

If there was a solid, optimised hardware and software platform which could be built-on, that would be ideal, but as we found out, either the hardware was underpowered or the software wasn't optimised. That's a really bad start for any smartwatch....

Do Suunto want to go more mainstream? Do they feel like they have to compete with things like the Apple Watch? The Spartan has been such a clusterf*ck of a launch that it will be interesting to see what happens now the Fenix 5 is going to arrive on the scene.

Not sure what their strategy is really.


----------



## Cyberbob13

I have had an Epix previously and cannot confirm any problems with running maps on it on the fly. Mapping and route navigation worked great with my Topo Austria Map (Garmin). The epix particularly failed design wise and due to its form factor but the mapping functions worked great - at least for me.


----------



## PTBC

Interesting comment on the DC Rainmaker blog on oHR and the Ultra vs Sport

"One concern that both Suunto and Valencell noted with a potential Ultra series is ensuring the optical HR sensor accuracy remains high, despite the higher weight of the Ultra. Specifically because the increased weight can cause increased bouncing on the wrist, reducing accuracy of the optical HR sensor."

Wonder if that's the only potential accuracy issue based on size/weight?

Also from the same article an additional bit on daily step counts

"starting this spring, that data along with daily calorie data will actually be saved to Movescount online.
See up until this point Suunto hasn’t saved any daily step/calorie data. It sits on your watch, and then eventually disappears. This put them at a pretty big disadvantage to competitors who are not only saving that data daily, but also then offering software based recommendations on training, recovery, or life. In Suunto’s case, they had to do those directly through the device, rather than via the app or websites. That limited the guidance they could give.

But this spring they’ll roll out an update for both the Suunto Spartan Ultra and Sport series that’ll change that. It sounds like that’ll be the start of using the Movescount platform for a bit more user guidance and recommendations beyond just scheduling and reviewing workouts. And that would definitely be good news indeed."


----------



## PTBC

From comments on DC Rainmaker blog, one reply from Ray had this little gem......

"From my frank discussions with them [Suunto] yesterday, they definitely and readily admit the Spartan was released too early and wasn't ready for prime time. So their complete focus is largely on getting that Spartan platform up to speed."

Glad to see them admit it, but doesn't go down well when combined with their poor performance on accepting returns and customer support in general, would be nice if they communicated with and acknowledged the people who actually paid out money for the product.


----------



## gimegime

krazyeone said:


> Mind that mapping and navigation code can be added from Edge devices, also Fenix 3 I think that is stable , is not like they have 0 functionality as Spartan (sorry for being rude)
> 
> Yes usually 1 year before one new Garmin device is stable ...then they release another device


Fenix 3 was a brick for 12 months and only marginally better now. Fill your boots

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## krazyeone

gimegime said:


> Fenix 3 was a brick for 12 months and only marginally better now. Fill your boots
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't get me wrong , I have an Ambit 3 Peak and I love it , but also I have an 920xt an also love it (but damn its an ugly watch)
Strange that with 920 XT sometimes I have better tracks than A3P

But....if the Garmin will focus on GPS and fixing issues , Fenix 5 has a lot of advantages over any other brand .

Also hope that Suunto will focus on getting firmware ready as Spartan is not yet mature

We will see


----------



## oli70

Display of SSU has 320x300 vs. 240x240 of Fenix5 and i would bet that Display of SSU is still superior over Fenix. The other thing is the chipset SSU has a state of the art Sirf star vs. Mediatek. So when you ask me theres a good chance that the gps accuracy will be better with the SSU. For me thats the most important thing of a sports watch. Lets see what future brings...


----------



## johan6504

oli70 said:


> Display of SSU has 320x300 vs. 240x240 of Fenix5 and i would bet that Display of SSU is still superior over Fenix. The other thing is the chipset SSU has a state of the art Sirf star vs. Mediatek. So when you ask me theres a good chance that the gps accuracy will be better with the SSU. For me thats the most important thing of a sports watch. Lets see what future brings...


I agree,GPS performance is the base and needs to be 1:st prio.


----------



## freej

johan6504 said:


> I agree,GPS performance is the base and needs to be 1:st prio.


Agree... and i'd call reliability priority zero... : my fenix2 ended up in the drawer after many midrun or midhike "freezes" (and 2 replacements in warranty)

Still if i look at the f5 i hope this watch won't have these issues ; imho it looks nicer than ssu nut thats a personal opinion.


----------



## DarkImpurity

I was in between the Fenix 3 and the Spartan so I ordered both. The Fenix 3 while more polished software wise, produced this yarn ball looking mess whenever I would stop in the middle of a track. My Spartan always maintains a continuous track even when I stand still it shows correct location information.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

PTBC said:


> From comments on DC Rainmaker blog, one reply from Ray had this little gem......
> 
> "From my frank discussions with them [Suunto] yesterday, they definitely and readily admit the Spartan was released too early and wasn't ready for prime time. So their complete focus is largely on getting that Spartan platform up to speed."
> 
> Glad to see them admit it, but doesn't go down well when combined with their poor performance on accepting returns and customer support in general, would be nice if they communicated with and acknowledged the people who actually paid out money for the product.


Remember the interviews I did at Suunto (and then could publish only the one?). No go-ahead from Suunto's relevant organs to say more. Imagine my surprise about the things DC can say (and show in the preview)...Fascinating. And utterly annoying...


----------



## Cassote

Why did they allowed him to preview and showcase ? Was it because he did bad reviews on the spartan before and want to gain his followers as fans ? Or because he devoted himself to fenix 5 ?


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Remember the interviews I did at Suunto (and then could publish only the one?). No go-ahead from Suunto's relevant organs to say more. Imagine my surprise about the things DC can say (and show in the preview)...Fascinating. And utterly annoying...


Doesn't seem fair, I would sure like to read that unpublished interview Gerald! Sorry that you seem to be less important to Suunto, they need a DCRainmaker type blogger that focuses more on brands other than Garmin.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Brands are all in thrall to "influence" = big numbers (of followers, comments, likes, etc.). And network effect being as it is, once you have gained a certain size/attractiveness, you attract more and more. If you're small, you can pretty much forget about it...

Only one of the things that belie that whole "anyone could do it".

One of my biggest (other) problems is that I'm based in Austria, so everyone points me (has to point me) to the Austria marketing teams. But then, I blog/vlog in English, so the Austria marketing isn't interested and/or doesn't have the budget. (And they'd be among the last to get products, even if just for testing... 5krunner is in the UK and already has issues. So, imagine if DC had started out in France.)

I keep looking for ways out of that, but short of winning the lottery to have the money to get anything and travel everywhere, I don't see (m)any ways. Suggestions welcome; I'd really like not to be negative. Especially when it keeps me from going out running, writing/recording reviews, getting it done...


----------



## PTBC

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Brands are all in thrall to "influence" = big numbers (of followers, comments, likes, etc.). And network effect being as it is, once you have gained a certain size/attractiveness, you attract more and more. If you're small, you can pretty much forget about it...
> 
> Only one of the things that belie that whole "anyone could do it".
> 
> One of my biggest (other) problems is that I'm based in Austria, so everyone points me (has to point me) to the Austria marketing teams. But then, I blog/vlog in English, so the Austria marketing isn't interested and/or doesn't have the budget. (And they'd be among the last to get products, even if just for testing... 5krunner is in the UK and already has issues. So, imagine if DC had started out in France.)
> 
> I keep looking for ways out of that, but short of winning the lottery to have the money to get anything and travel everywhere, I don't see (m)any ways. Suggestions welcome; I'd really like not to be negative. Especially when it keeps me from going out running, writing/recording reviews, getting it done...


It's a shame as these aren't mass market products like the Apple watch so a more discerning approach should be allowed for, especially in terms of rewarding loyalty, not to say someone who blindly supports Suunto, but someone who focuses/specialises more on their ranges and issues. 5k runner did blog about some of the issues and it was an interesting read and I felt he made a strong argument as to why marketing groups need to refocus more on specialist (mid-tier?) blogs etc. though of course that would be his slant ;o)
It is interesting that they have engaged fellrnr for testing as they are obviously aware that reputationally that will help, plus have to admire his dedication to testing equipment in such a thorough systematic manner. Ultimately Suunto marketing have handled the whole situation badly and dropping titbits like that at CES isn't going to help with transparency issues.


----------



## Ingo

Maybe it's time for Suunto to finally bury the SSU, apologize, refund everyone, go back to the drawing board and come back in a year's time with a completely new watch with a new name that can stand its ground against the top dogs. Is there really anybody out there who is still holding off on a SSU purchase until it's all working properly like one should have been expecting on its release? I highly doubt it. It's a tainted product now and it'll be far behind the curve by the time it finally lives up to expectations. Now they're throwing everyone and everything behind the Spartan just to keep the disgruntled early buyers at bay and save face but no matter how much manpower and cash they throw at it, it'll very likely not help them much to sell more watches going forward. It is just too late and the damage has been done. It's like a realtor trying to find a buyer for a home were something bad happened - nothing wrong with that house but who really wants to live there knowing the history and be reminded all the time of what has happened? Burn it to the ground and rebuild and if you don't do it someone else will do it for you at some point, i.e. put Suunto up for sale. It's a proper business school case of a rise and fall of a company. But seriously, I am a an ultra runner and pretty close to my local running community here and no one has a Spartan and no one is considering getting one. I’ve never even seen one in real life and that’s super rare considering how gear and gadget focused this sport has become. Sometimes the only option to get out of a mess is to start over. R.I.P. Spartan.


----------



## Ingo

deleted double post


----------



## jarekben

> Is there really anybody out there who is still holding off on a SSU purchase until it's all working properly like one should have been expecting on its release? I highly doubt it.


I for one, am doing exactly that. I have been reading this thread from the beginning and I really want Suunto to get the Spartan right. If they can get all of the isuues fixed, I am planning on buying one. It is posiible that if the can't or don't fix the issues, I will try out a fenix 5, but at this point, I think that would be a bad idea because the fenix is also a new watch.


----------



## Ingo

jarekben said:


> I for one, am doing exactly that. I have been reading this thread from the beginning and I really want Suunto to get the Spartan right. If they can get all of the isuues fixed, I am planning on buying one. It is posiible that if the can't or don't fix the issues, I will try out a fenix 5, but at this point, I think that would be a bad idea because the fenix is also a new watch.


Kudos to you for staying with this topic for 341 pages already ;-) but by now you might be at risk of having accumulated more emotional attachment to the SSU than is good for you to still make a reasonably informed rational decision.

I for one dropped out some 150 pages ago and just bought a heavily discounted A3P which served me very well since then. I was just stopping by here to see how the F5 release was perceived by this crowd because if it wasn't for the A3P on the cheap I would most likely be picking up an F5 soon. Garmin kinda had their SSU moment with the F3 and I really doubt they want to go there again.


----------



## user_none

Ingo said:


> Kudos to you for staying with this topic for 341 pages already ;-) but by now you might be at risk of having accumulated more emotional attachment to the SSU than is good for you to still make a reasonably informed rational decision.


Awesome, and practically zero positive comments to contribute. Thanks! Considering the quantity of negative comments you've made in a thread for a watch you don't own, I'd say there's some emotional attachment going on for you. Seems to me the joke boomeranged.



> I for one dropped out some 150 pages ago and just bought a heavily discounted A3P which served me very well since then. I was just stopping by here to see how the F5 release was perceived by this crowd because if it wasn't for the A3P on the cheap I would most likely be picking up an F5 soon. Garmin kinda had their SSU moment with the F3 and I really doubt they want to go there again.


Apparently you didn't keep your word on dropping out 150 pages ago.

Unlike Captain Negative, I actually own an A3P Sapphire AND a Spartan Ultra. I've compared both in heavily wooded areas with quite a bit of elevation changes. It's working quite well. Impressive, even in the face of the A3P, AND halfway expecting to be disappointed. I purchased the SSU a couple of weeks ago even knowing how much negativity was shown in the forums. No, it was not purchased at full price. I added it to the arsenal because I got it for a steal, and I was curious.


----------



## Unperson

I don't really get that negative sentiment either. The realtor comparison also doesn't add up. The problems with the SSU don't seem to come from the hardware. The watch looks fine, great screen, better resolution than the rest (320x300 vs the Fenix 5's 250x250) functional touch screen and battery life means I charge it once a week. GPS wise there's a sirfstar V in there, that's a good chip. I don't know about CPU and memory and what reserve they may have there (so no clue if mapping could work in any way).

Suunto's problem is that they're leaving the Ambit ecosystem (software) and have moved to something new (Spartan). They messed up the software, or more correctly, they're just not done yet (by a long shot). Starting over would be stupid, that would mean going through everything they've been through yet again. Whatever their next watch is (probably a Spartan 2 somewhere in the future) will be built on the same ecosystem. That's why there's also a spartan sport and a spartan trainer that are built from the same software. Their development team is building everything they had on the ambit series again, in a new environment.

Recalling the watches they sold is not going to help anything. They need to start developing faster, agreed, but that has nothing to do with the watch, it's all about code.


----------



## Matus69

these are your thoughts or you have insider's infos?


----------



## Ingo

user_none said:


> Awesome, and practically zero positive comments to contribute. Thanks! Considering the quantity of negative comments you've made in a thread for a watch you don't own, I'd say there's some emotional attachment going on for you. Seems to me the joke boomeranged.
> 
> Apparently you didn't keep your word on dropping out 150 pages ago.
> 
> Unlike Captain Negative, I actually own an A3P Sapphire AND a Spartan Ultra. I've compared both in heavily wooded areas with quite a bit of elevation changes. It's working quite well. Impressive, even in the face of the A3P, AND halfway expecting to be disappointed. I purchased the SSU a couple of weeks ago even knowing how much negativity was shown in the forums. No, it was not purchased at full price. I added it to the arsenal because I got it for a steal, and I was curious.


Quite a short fuse you got there user_none and I am happy for you that you can afford an arsenal of GPS watches and source top end ones at steal prices.

But seriously, who is Suunto now updating a watch for that not many people are going to buy anymore, except maybe for the remaining few holdouts still following this forum? So they keep throwing a lot of resources at issues that only a few brave early adopters have. Does anybody here remember the Garmin Epix?

Yes it may all be eventually for a SSU2 but who will really care then when they're behind the curve already now?


----------



## Jaka83

Ingo said:


> Quite a short fuse you got there user_none and I am happy for you that you can afford an arsenal of GPS watches and source top end ones at steal prices.
> 
> But seriously, *who is Suunto now updating a watch for that not many people are going to buy anymore*, except maybe for the remaining few holdouts still following this forum? *So they keep throwing a lot of resources at issues that only a few brave early adopters have.* Does anybody here remember the Garmin Epix?
> 
> Yes it may all be eventually for a SSU2 but who will really care then when they're behind the curve already now?


You can't be that dumb, or are you? So what you're saying is they should let millions of $ invested in research and development just go up in smoke because they launched a product too early? You must be delusional. They screwed up the launch of the product and the thing to do now is do every possible thing to make the product reach it's potential. It's not like the watch has bad hardware, it just needs good software to go with that sexy hardware.

And as the Spartan stands software wise today, it is not as bad as *you *want it to be. Obviously you're not using the watch, so who are you to tell us users and potential buyers how you feel about it.

Yes it's missing features, but no, the missing features are not deal breakers for a lot of people including me. Now that they've made the first steps towards screen customisation it is starting to show it's flexibility. Not to mention that the last update brought quite a lot of new features, which goes to show that they are working on the platform big time.

Obviously they had to reset the platform because the Ambit one was too closed/limited for the developers.


----------



## borgelkranz

Let's not feed the troll. This discussion is not even worth a quote, as far as I am concerned.


----------



## Gnarls Head

Are relatively new to this forum and I'm a bit surprised over the negative hype over SSU. Can understand that's been and are some problems with SSU. But I have to say that I don't agree to all of that.
Coming from Ambit2 (that's served me well) and bought SSU for 430 euro. A bit hesitant to buy, due to the GPS problems. 
For me GPS has never been a problem, sometimes a little bit off in the snow covered woods. Overall satisfied, believe and hope function will improve.


----------



## Unperson

Matus69 said:


> these are your thoughts or you have insider's infos?


This is just me applying inductive reasoning to observations from owning and using a Spartan, seeing what other products Suunto is launching and reports of Suunto's focus on the Spartan platform. Nothing more, nothing less.

I find a lot of the conclusions found in the negative sentiments highly illogical. Yes, Suunto launched too early but, to use an analogy, building a new house is neither a quick nor a cheap solution to a leaky roof.


----------



## PTBC

While I'm glad some people are getting good GPS performance I still don't (for running, cycling seems fine) and Suunto don't seem inclined to respond to complaints or even do anything about it.
I did my first run with the new firmware as the local streets have been too icy the last few weeks just walking to the bus has been an adventure (a nice balmy -5c for the run) and I followed the cleared cycle path down a wide road that had no tree coverage and there wasn't a cloud in site. GPS was the drunken wandering type, across the road and back, tracks showed virtually no overlap despite being down and back run, all the graphs are blocky with sudden shifts between flat lines and while the auto-pause did work at the turnaround it showed me stopping and restarting about 20 metres before the actual stop point and the end point was also a similar distance from where I finished. On top of that the HR didn't show up and looking at it when I was home turns out I had to re-pair it after the firmware upgrade, at -5 I was more concerned with getting moving than fixing it though. Maybe it's just the way I'm holding it (or wearing it/running style)

I've only just had a stock 'read the FAQ' answer about a query with Personal Bests when that was launched last year so hold out little hope of anything meaningful this time.


----------



## PTBC

borgelkranz said:


> Let's not feed the troll. This discussion is not even worth a quote, as far as I am concerned.


While I agree, the fact that the person responding only took a chance on the watch with a good discount does partly prove his point about the Spartan and it's reputation. 
Had he said Suunto might need to bury the Spartan name and launch the 'Spartan 2' under a different label (but based on the fixed hardware/software platform) that would have been a much more reasonable suggestion and more I suspect along the lines of what unperson is describing in his reasoning.
It will be interesting to see impact of gyroscope on Fenix 5 performance as there seems to be some speculation that it will help with smoothing noise over short slower distances (running/hiking) and would be an obvious 'new/improved' path for Suunto to take with new hardware.


----------



## martowl

user_none said:


> Awesome, and practically zero positive comments to contribute. Thanks! Considering the quantity of negative comments you've made in a thread for a watch you don't own, I'd say there's some emotional attachment going on for you. Seems to me the joke boomeranged.
> 
> Apparently you didn't keep your word on dropping out 150 pages ago.
> 
> Unlike Captain Negative, I actually own an A3P Sapphire AND a Spartan Ultra. I've compared both in heavily wooded areas with quite a bit of elevation changes. It's working quite well. Impressive, even in the face of the A3P, AND halfway expecting to be disappointed. I purchased the SSU a couple of weeks ago even knowing how much negativity was shown in the forums. No, it was not purchased at full price. I added it to the arsenal because I got it for a steal, and I was curious.


I have been chiming in some here but not too much since I own an A3P and not an SSU....until today! I found a very good deal on an SSU and purchased it. It arrives today and I will be running with both to compare. I agree with what has been said here and understand the SSU shortcomings and I have 30d to return if necessary. I decided NOT to wait and compare to the fenix 5 as the SSU screen resolution is so much better (and I am old...my eyes need all the help they can get). I am heavily invested in the Movescount ecosystem as I have authored training plans, apps and started tagging on day 1 when Movescount went online. I have owned and used many Suunto products and because of that experience as well as the customer service I have had from Suunto, I decided I would rather stick with the ecosystem I have been using.

I will post my experiences comparing the SSU and A3P, I may as a few questions too. The only things I need on the SSU that are not there is interval training (I can get by doing this manually for awhile) and altitude route profile on the watch, which I find incredibly useful on my A3P. Considering I have done without this for so long I can wait a little longer. The improvements in Movescount are impressive and after importing all into Garmin Connect I cannot see myself using the Garmin site. The heatmaps on Movescount and the comparison tools are useful for me. So, I will run with my SSU tomorrow!


----------



## user_none

martowl said:


> I have been chiming in some here but not too much since I own an A3P and not an SSU....until today! I found a very good deal on an SSU and purchased it. It arrives today and I will be running with both to compare. I agree with what has been said here and understand the SSU shortcomings and I have 30d to return if necessary. I decided NOT to wait and compare to the fenix 5 as the SSU screen resolution is so much better (and I am old...my eyes need all the help they can get). I am heavily invested in the Movescount ecosystem as I have authored training plans, apps and started tagging on day 1 when Movescount went online. I have owned and used many Suunto products and because of that experience as well as the customer service I have had from Suunto, I decided I would rather stick with the ecosystem I have been using.
> 
> I will post my experiences comparing the SSU and A3P, I may as a few questions too. The only things I need on the SSU that are not there is interval training (I can get by doing this manually for awhile) and altitude route profile on the watch, which I find incredibly useful on my A3P. Considering I have done without this for so long I can wait a little longer. The improvements in Movescount are impressive and after importing all into Garmin Connect I cannot see myself using the Garmin site. The heatmaps on Movescount and the comparison tools are useful for me. So, I will run with my SSU tomorrow!


Any negativity (constructive criticism, actually) from you is way more than welcomed. You're out there, putting in the miles and give damn good feedback on the Ambit3. Now that you've joined the SSU fray, it'll be great to hear your perspective on the SSU vs. Ambit3, like others have done.


----------



## bruceames

Congrats Brad! You tempt me to check it out as well and if I can get it on sale with an easy 30 day return policy I might just do that. Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## user_none

bruceames said:


> Congrats Brad! You tempt me to check it out as well and if I can get it on sale with an easy 30 day return policy I might just do that. Look forward to your impressions.


I've posted it previous to this, but will do so again. Suunto Watches | Dutyfreeislandshop.com

I received a new, in box SSU black w/HR for $388. Only the white one remains and it's $391.


----------



## BobMiles

PTBC said:


> While I'm glad some people are getting good GPS performance I still don't (for running, cycling seems fine) and Suunto don't seem inclined to respond to complaints or even do anything about it.
> I did my first run with the new firmware as the local streets have been too icy the last few weeks just walking to the bus has been an adventure (a nice balmy -5c for the run) and I followed the cleared cycle path down a wide road that had no tree coverage and there wasn't a cloud in site. GPS was the drunken wandering type, across the road and back, tracks showed virtually no overlap despite being down and back run, all the graphs are blocky with sudden shifts between flat lines and while the auto-pause did work at the turnaround it showed me stopping and restarting about 20 metres before the actual stop point and the end point was also a similar distance from where I finished. On top of that the HR didn't show up and looking at it when I was home turns out I had to re-pair it after the firmware upgrade, at -5 I was more concerned with getting moving than fixing it though. Maybe it's just the way I'm holding it (or wearing it/running style)
> 
> I've only just had a stock 'read the FAQ' answer about a query with Personal Bests when that was launched last year so hold out little hope of anything meaningful this time.


I can understand your frustration. But with a little more patience you might end up with a very good watch. Suunto is working hard on the fixes and I hope we'll see them soon. 
I, too, was frustrated with the way they communicate their progress. However, there will be updates and improvements coming and probably sooner than later. We can't do much but wait. But it is an enjoyable watch already, at least in my eyes.


----------



## wydim

seriously !!?? you fell for it !! I can't wait to check out your tracks on Strava !!! keep on running !



martowl said:


> I have been chiming in some here but not too much since I own an A3P and not an SSU....until today! I found a very good deal on an SSU and purchased it. It arrives today and I will be running with both to compare. I agree with what has been said here and understand the SSU shortcomings and I have 30d to return if necessary. I decided NOT to wait and compare to the fenix 5 as the SSU screen resolution is so much better (and I am old...my eyes need all the help they can get). I am heavily invested in the Movescount ecosystem as I have authored training plans, apps and started tagging on day 1 when Movescount went online. I have owned and used many Suunto products and because of that experience as well as the customer service I have had from Suunto, I decided I would rather stick with the ecosystem I have been using.
> 
> I will post my experiences comparing the SSU and A3P, I may as a few questions too. The only things I need on the SSU that are not there is interval training (I can get by doing this manually for awhile) and altitude route profile on the watch, which I find incredibly useful on my A3P. Considering I have done without this for so long I can wait a little longer. The improvements in Movescount are impressive and after importing all into Garmin Connect I cannot see myself using the Garmin site. The heatmaps on Movescount and the comparison tools are useful for me. So, I will run with my SSU tomorrow!


----------



## user_none

Ingo said:


> Quite a short fuse you got there user_none and I am happy for you that you can afford an arsenal of GPS watches and source top end ones at steal prices.
> 
> But seriously, who is Suunto now updating a watch for that not many people are going to buy anymore, except maybe for the remaining few holdouts still following this forum? So they keep throwing a lot of resources at issues that only a few brave early adopters have. Does anybody here remember the Garmin Epix?
> 
> Yes it may all be eventually for a SSU2 but who will really care then when they're behind the curve already now?


If having a short fuse is defined as pointing out the drama of a Drama Queen, then so be it. I'll gladly accept that title. Besides Drama Queen, there's another term I like, and that is Chicken Little. The sky is always falling...

Unless you have an inside contact at Suunto, you have zero clue as to what their sales numbers are, so your naysaying is little more than delusional hot air being expelled. When you can contribute with something positive, be it constructive criticism or otherwise, please do so. Until then, you're trolling.


----------



## martowl

wydim said:


> seriously !!?? you fell for it !! I can't wait to check out your tracks on Strava !!! keep on running !


Yes, I fell for it:roll:, as I said, 30d return. I have been reading the FB page full of Spartan users. Many have no issues, some have very bad GPS problems. Frankly, the upgrades to Movescount and the plans are a big draw. Offline syncing is coming and I hope it will work for the Ambit line too. I won't get rid of my Ambit until the SSU is thoroughly tested.


----------



## PTBC

BobMiles said:


> I can understand your frustration. But with a little more patience you might end up with a very good watch. Suunto is working hard on the fixes and I hope we'll see them soon.
> I, too, was frustrated with the way they communicate their progress. However, there will be updates and improvements coming and probably sooner than later. We can't do much but wait. But it is an enjoyable watch already, at least in my eyes.


I decided to stick it out for the long haul a while back, but likely won't buy Suunto again as they way they have treated me as a customer has been poor, it's poor customer support for a cheap item, let alone a pre-ordered expensive item. Really does feel like taking part in a badly run kickstarter campaign at times.

If the hinted at GPS update doesn't fix the performance then either they offer a warranty replacement (as at that point something must be wrong with the actual watch) or I'll be using every method I can find to return it and moving on (UK consumer protection law is favorable in that respect if you are prepared to make enough of a fuss). I have a suspicion that there are some 'duds' out there and having to wait 9 months or more for GPS to be fixed to find out if your watch is one of them isn't great.

Also it seems like they have either quietly started to discount the product or people are trying to shift stock they won't take returns on, not a great sign of confidence whichever it is.


----------



## bruceames

user_none said:


> I've posted it previous to this, but will do so again. Suunto Watches | Dutyfreeislandshop.com
> 
> I received a new, in box SSU black w/HR for $388. Only the white one remains and it's $391.


Thanks, but I'll probably have to take a pass on the white one. It's a really good price though.


----------



## koudja

FYI there's a black w/silver bezel in the classifieds forum for $400. I know because I just bought his black/black that he was selling as well.


----------



## user_none

bruceames said:


> Thanks, but I'll probably have to take a pass on the white one. It's a really good price though.


That pass is understandable. Keep an eye on the page as they do update with new stock.


----------



## Ingo

user_none said:


> If having a short fuse is defined as pointing out the drama of a Drama Queen, then so be it. I'll gladly accept that title. Besides Drama Queen, there's another term I like, and that is Chicken Little. The sky is always falling...
> 
> Unless you have an inside contact at Suunto, you have zero clue as to what their sales numbers are, so your naysaying is little more than delusional hot air being expelled. When you can contribute with something positive, be it constructive criticism or otherwise, please do so. Until then, you're trolling.


Dude, let the public read my posts and your and others replies and decide who the trolls here are. I didn't call anybody dumb or delusional or attack people personally with a good amount of sarcasm.

All I was doing is trying to point at the big picture while many guys here are currently playing around with sports mode customization at this stage. I live in a community with 8,151 registered trail runners and 18,783 registered hikers, spend my 6-10h a week on the trails with other runners, run a race every 1-2 months and have not seen a single SSU on someone's wrist since it was launched. I guess it is fair to say that this watch is not really gaining a lot of traction here. It's even been removed from stores because chances are that if you sell one you'll soon get it back.

While you're emerged in this forum's microcosms you may not think much about the macro situation and as much as it pains me to say that, in my opinion Suunto has lost the battle good. Of course there are always a few hardcore believers out there who stick to things like HD DVDs or Betamax and companies like Nokia and BlackBerry still sell a couple of phones but they fell deep because of bad business decisions, investing into the wrong ecosystems, botching product launches and launching inferior products. Of course it takes some time for these decisions to show and Nokia and BlackBerry are still around for that matter - but at some point consumers better decide which side they want to be on and if cutting edge products, longevity of a product line and continued support is the benchmark they're usually better of sticking to the market leaders - or at least not with the increasingly obvious laggards.

I wanted to get a SSU badly from the day it was announced, I waited long enough to make up my mind, then went with an A3P instead which is an iconic watch and already a classic but with what Garmin is putting on the table right now I am more than certain that the A3P is at least my first and last Suunto watch I will ever own. Ok, maybe I get another A3P and vacuum pack it like you'd store a Saab classic car to preserve its timeless beauty for future generations.

Maybe you don't care much about all that because you seem affluent enough to maintain your arsenal of high-end watches regardless of their chances for future success and that's good for you but if you can only buy one to last you the next 5+ years I'd be hard pressed to buy into what Suunto is currently doing.


----------



## Lakerveldt

Hi, after leaching for around 344 pages, i felt it was my turn to contribute. I just synced my SSU and afterwards an update for Suuntolink was installed. During the past months this indicated that a FW update for the watch is comming quite soon. Lets hope that's what's happening now as well!

Another thing, I recently noticed that my HR was showing extremely high during running. Probably due to static electricity or something else. I observed my HR being >220 while I know for sure that my max is around 183. I was actually running downhill at moderate pace. I've seen that behaviour as well with Polar 725, Ciclosport HAC3 and Ambit 2S. This Normally happens during the first 5 minutes of an exercise, then it disappears. It only happens during running. The first five minutes of Cycling XC ski, etc. are not affected. This time it was allmost throughout the whole exercise. The strange thing is that it wasn't visible on the log in movescount. There my HR seemed to be the way I percieved it (appart from these usual first 5 minutes). It looked like the log in the watch was overwritten by the log from the strap/sensor after syncing. Did one of you experience similar behaviour?


----------



## Jaka83

@Ingo
It took at least a year for the first Ambit to be recognised by the community as a good watch and it grew exponentially from the day it was released - again, missing a lot of features that the first Fenix already had. I held on to my Ambit1 for three years and it served me more than well with constant updates and new features (less new features in the final year because Suunto was pushing customers to upgrade, like most of the companies do).

I see the Spartan platform in the same way ... baby steps at first and later it will be packed with useful features, building on a solid platform. If this "slow" tempo is not to your liking, then fine, go play with the A3P or some other mature product, but don't go on forums talking smack about something you don't even own and use. BTW, the Fenix5 won't be available until the end of March and quite frankly it does not offer that much more and IMO (I might offend someone, just my personal preference) the platform is not as good as Suunto Movescount.


----------



## eeun

Jaka83 said:


> @Ingo
> It took at least a year for the first Ambit to be recognised by the community as a good watch and it grew exponentially from the day it was released - again, missing a lot of features that the first Fenix already had. I held on to my Ambit1 for three years and it served me more than well with constant updates and new features (less new features in the final year because Suunto was pushing customers to upgrade, like most of the companies do).
> 
> I see the Spartan platform in the same way ... baby steps at first and later it will be packed with useful features, building on a solid platform. If this "slow" tempo is not to your liking, then fine, go play with the A3P or some other mature product, but don't go on forums talking smack about something you don't even own and use. BTW, the Fenix5 won't be available until the end of March and quite frankly it does not offer that much more and IMO (I might offend someone, just my personal preference) the platform is not as good as Suunto Movescount.


My recollection is different to yours. I recall extensive discussion about why the A1 and T6 variants produced different in watch and Movescount results and then a massive backlash following Suunto marketing lies about ongoing improvements when the A2 came out of the blue. Yes there were bugs but not the levels of issues that are being highlighted with the Spartan Ultra and yes there were software enhancements.


----------



## Pegasus

I think if a Spartan 2 comes out that corrects the problems with the Spartan and the Spartan being left as is I will never buy another Suunto product, get one functioning and then develop from there. A Spartan 2 or whatever comes next (Phoenix seems more apt ) appearing soon would be a huge admission of failure of the Spartan in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BobMiles

Lakerveldt said:


> Hi, after leaching for around 344 pages, i felt it was my turn to contribute. I just synced my SSU and afterwards an update for Suuntolink was installed. During the past months this indicated that a FW update for the watch is comming quite soon. Lets hope that's what's happening now as well!
> 
> Another thing, I recently noticed that my HR was showing extremely high during running. Probably due to static electricity or something else. I observed my HR being >220 while I know for sure that my max is around 183. I was actually running downhill at moderate pace. I've seen that behaviour as well with Polar 725, Ciclosport HAC3 and Ambit 2S. This Normally happens during the first 5 minutes of an exercise, then it disappears. It only happens during running. The first five minutes of Cycling XC ski, etc. are not affected. This time it was allmost throughout the whole exercise. The strange thing is that it wasn't visible on the log in movescount. There my HR seemed to be the way I percieved it (appart from these usual first 5 minutes). It looked like the log in the watch was overwritten by the log from the strap/sensor after syncing. Did one of you experience similar behaviour?


I have the very same behaviour! Nobody would believe me, but now I read your post, I'm not crazy after all! 
How old is your hr belt?


----------



## Lakerveldt

Hi, No, you're not crazy! At least, not related to the obeservations of your watch it's behaviour. I don't know anything related to your mental state otherwise...

My belt is from august'16. I've received a replacement sensor in october '16. The replacement was sent because of a waranty request. The watch froze during a triathlon while running on the original firmware. That issue was probably related to the watch FW and not the sensor.

This morning the HR had it's usual 5-10 grumpy wake up behaviour before showing correct values:


----------



## martowl

eeun said:


> My recollection is different to yours. I recall extensive discussion about why the A1 and T6 variants produced different in watch and Movescount results and then a massive backlash following Suunto marketing lies about ongoing improvements when the A2 came out of the blue. Yes there were bugs but not the levels of issues that are being highlighted with the Spartan Ultra and yes there were software enhancements.


Hi eeun, I believe you are correct as I was one participating in those discussion and still have my T6c. However, I saw the A1P a bit differently. It was updated with a massive number of features and served me quite well, with nearly 500 moves and 2 years of activity. The A1P did not have the memory or processing power to do what everyone was clamoring for. I think Suunto realized that early and started A2P development. The uproar over the A2P did promote Suunto to max out the A1P with a final update but I personally did not feel cheated as Suunto delivered all the promised functionality with the A1P. It was requested functionality that appeared to be not possible and spurred A2P development.

So, I think Suunto will deliver promised functionality to the SSU but I would not be surprised if a new model does come out 1 yr to 1.5 yr after the SSU release. OK by me, it is my choice whether to purchase the next model or not.


----------



## bruceames

I didn't even know about the A1 until the A2 came out. I was use the T6/T6C the whole time and that watch was very well received. Then when I went to check out what they replaced it with I discovered the Ambit. I was perplexed on as on this forum there was a lot of anger about that watch coming out and at the same time it was regarded as a very good watch and the app geeks were going crazy. So a lot of mixed feelings back then (got the A2 in July 2013). Although I've had the A3 for almost 2 years now (actually I have another one stashed, as mentioned above I think it's a classic ) I wore the A2 yesterday for a treadmill run and the watch band is much less comfortable than the A3. But I don't remember such a backlash on any Suunto watch like the SSU. I have a feeling they may just come out with a SSU2 sooner rather than later. They did it also with the X9. The GPS watch not good at all and a year later came out another model and I did feel a little bad about it since it was so expensive and I felt the watch was abandoned. But other than that my experience with Suunto watches for the last 17 years has been great.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> But I don't remember such a backlash on any Suunto watch like the SSU. I have a feeling they may just come out with a SSU2 sooner rather than later.


Also Martowl "I would not be surprised if a new model does come out 1 yr to 1.5 yr after the SSU release."

The additional years warranty was supposed to suggest or imply a longer term view, but I wouldn't be surprised if they 'tweak' it and maybe rebrand in some way (a variant rather than a new model) once they sort out the main bugs, or realize they need physical changes to move beyond a certain point.

Though putting out a new model that soon might lead to some interesting 'accidents' and warranty claims ;o)


----------



## martowl

New SSU yesterday and one walk move one run move with the A3P and SSU on the same wrist with the A3P antenna pointing up. My GPS tracks are great and no other issues with the SSU, used the Stryd Pioneer on the SSU and the Stryd Summit on A3P at the same time. Unfortunately Summit dropped the signal...again.

My first impressions, beautiful watch, I like the interface a lot. Interesting that colors are almost nonexistent until you get in the sunlight and then not bad. Screen resolution is fantastic...the fenix 5 will seem blurry by comparison. My old eyes can see all 5 fields without my glasses. The real test will come this weekend as I will wear both watches for a long run.

I have both on Movescount if anyone would like to compare. The SSU recorded a bit longer than the A3P, A3P is set on 3D distance.

SSU Move

A3P Move


----------



## Gnarls Head

This is one of my runs with SSU and it's a little bit off in the snow covered wood, but not that much.
http://www.movescount.com/sv/moves/move137170661
I wear the SSU with the watchface upwards to the sky.
My previous watch was Ambit2 and had a problem with HRM with spikes off HR up to 210 for short periods. At that time it was always in the beginning of the run and I guess then that it was a "connection" problem between skin and HRM strap.
SSU doesn't seem to have the same problem. I think it sorts it out when syncing at the end, when you save the run.


----------



## Egika

Lakerveldt said:


> This morning the HR had it's usual 5-10 grumpy wake up behaviour before showing correct values:
> 
> View attachment 10492930


Do you care for a good conducting connection from the HR belt to your skin?
You should wet the pads or use cadio gel. Otherwise it will take some time for sweat to moisten up the contact pads and you see your strange data for the first time.


----------



## PTBC

Gnarls Head said:


> .....I wear the SSU with the watchface upwards to the sky.


Do you use some sort of padding when doing that to keep it in place?


----------



## Lakerveldt

Egika said:


> Do you care for a good conducting connection from the HR belt to your skin?
> You should wet the pads or use cadio gel. Otherwise it will take some time for sweat to moisten up the contact pads and you see your strange data for the first time.


Hi, yes, I'm very consequent about that. I always soak the belt prior to exercise. I've bocome used to this behaviour, as it happens with multiple straps and watches during the first 5 minutes.

The high hart rate values mid exercise on the watch, that are not in the log, are a bit strange though. It seems that possibly there is some interference that is overwritten by the log of the sensor.


----------



## BobMiles

Lakerveldt said:


> Hi, yes, I'm very consequent about that. I always soak the belt prior to exercise. I've bocome used to this behaviour, as it happens with multiple straps and watches during the first 5 minutes.
> 
> The high hart rate values mid exercise on the watch, that are not in the log, are a bit strange though. It seems that possibly there is some interference that is overwritten by the log of the sensor.


I, too, moist my belt always the same way. I talked to suunto and they said it might be the strap that degenerates quite fast (they said some have to replace it after 3-4 months with extensive usage). 
I ordered a replacement and will report on the issue!


----------



## XCJagge

My experience is the easiest way to record unintended bad track with SSU is having 3 days old or older SGEE in watch and starting to run as soon as the watch indicates it has gps lock and running in at least moderately forested environment. Couple of days old SGEE just is not always good enough for accurate track, it provides fast lock but that accuracy gets you just to the right ballpark, literally. With Ambit 3 you usually get away with it because it is slightly better at getting better fix on the fly, so you just get slighly wrong start point and it usually gradually joins the correct path, in a minute or two. SSU may stay wandering around a bit longer, harder for it to get fix for antenna not shooting up I guess (more interceptions).

Now I always try having fresh SGEE and if it is old I don't start running even if watch indicates I could, instead I wait for 45 sec or more, antenna shooting straight up (I hold my hand on my head so my body does not block any satellites). And to perfect the track I try shooting slightly up with the antenna while running, these days I just tuck some padding under the watch about the place the connectors are. It makes it turn 20..30 degrees or so better.

We can't judge gps performance yet really, for the still missing glonass. But that martowl's latest track is so good tracks hardly will become much any better than that with glonass, just poor quality sections martowl luckily avoided altogether there should become more rare. But that's only guessing, maybe it is better than that, maybe Suunto folks have been pulling a rabbit out of hat and it has been taking time because it is a fat giant rabbit and it is still fighting back, but maybe it will end up as big feast. Or maybe the rabbit will eat Suunto folks. Who knows, time will tell.


----------



## bruceames

Yes Martowl's SSU track looks very good, right on par with the A3P. I really like that the display is more readable as my eyes aren't the greatest either and especially having 5 data fields. What I don't like are not having apps and not having customizable displays, but I assume that will change over time. 

A lot of my moves are in fairly open areas so maybe the GPS will be "good enough". I'd like to try it out, really curious, and the price drops are tempting.

I don't think Glonass is going to do a whit of good. It hasn't on other watches. In fact some people say that disabling it improves the track. So I just hope that Suunto
keeps improving with FW updates like Garmin did and it'll end up being a really good watch. If not, there's always the SSU2.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> Yes Martowl's SSU track looks very good, right on par with the A3P. I really like that the display is more readable as my eyes aren't the greatest either and especially having 5 data fields. What I don't like are not having apps and not having customizable displays, but I assume that will change over time.
> 
> A lot of my moves are in fairly open areas so maybe the GPS will be "good enough". I'd like to try it out, really curious, and the price drops are tempting.
> 
> I don't think Glonass is going to do a whit of good. It hasn't on other watches. In fact some people say that disabling it improves the track. So I just hope that Suunto
> keeps improving with FW updates like Garmin did and it'll end up being a really good watch. If not, there's always the SSU2.


Know what you mean by the eyes and the screen resolution was certainly one of my considerations, I would still like to have customization option of 3 fields in a bigger font as one of the screens for quick glance option. The dim always on backlight is also a definite improvement (at this time of the year anyway) and worth the small hit to battery life.
Would like to be able to adjust font size for messages as well, current setting is too small, sure it was bigger before last update, though it was even smaller before that.

Edit: As I have a teenage daughter I'd also like support for extended character sets that Fenix 5 will have, emoji's are the new hieroglyphics.


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> Know what you mean by the eyes and the screen resolution was certainly one of my considerations, I would still like to have customization option of 3 fields in a bigger font as one of the screens for quick glance option. The dim always on backlight is also a definite improvement (at this time of the year anyway) and worth the small hit to battery life.
> Would like to be able to adjust font size for messages as well, current setting is too small, sure it was bigger before last update, though it was even smaller before that.


Absolutely for field customization. When racing two screens of 3 fields is all I need and I would like to have the larger font.
I will have a long track on Saturday to compare....the Cyborg wearing a sapphire blue A3P and SSU on the same wrist.........


----------



## bruceames

Ok, I'm going to check it out. Just found a good deal and ordered the Titanium from Jacobtime (with a 30 day return policy), so hopefully it will measure up! GPS impressions are all over the place depending on watch and location so hopefully I'm one of the more fortunate ones.


----------



## user_none

Lakerveldt said:


> Hi, yes, I'm very consequent about that. I always soak the belt prior to exercise. I've bocome used to this behaviour, as it happens with multiple straps and watches during the first 5 minutes.
> 
> The high hart rate values mid exercise on the watch, that are not in the log, are a bit strange though. It seems that possibly there is some interference that is overwritten by the log of the sensor.


You shouldn't need to soak the belt as the contact pads are not water permeable. Either spit on the contact pads, or use the conductive gel mentioned earlier. I've used Spectra 360 with great success. If you're not in the US, I'm sure you can find something similar.

https://www.amazon.com/Spectra_-ele...F8&qid=1484328009&sr=8-6&keywords=spectra+360

Also, wash your HR straps often. Sweat will eat and destroy the elastic in the band.


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> Ok, I'm going to check it out. Just found a good deal and ordered the Titanium from Jacobtime (with a 30 day return policy), so hopefully it will measure up! GPS impressions are all over the place depending on watch and location so hopefully I'm one of the more fortunate ones.


Look at what peer pressure can do. Will be looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## user_none

For some data points, here's a couple of my runs with both. This is a heavily wooded area, with almost zero flat areas.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?...ll=37.40513587351755,-122.31432849999999&z=15

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?...ll=37.40234935066515,-122.30327699999998&z=16

edit: oops, apparently those aren't set to public. Changed.


----------



## user_none

bruceames said:


> Ok, I'm going to check it out. Just found a good deal and ordered the Titanium from Jacobtime (with a 30 day return policy), so hopefully it will measure up! GPS impressions are all over the place depending on watch and location so hopefully I'm one of the more fortunate ones.


Man, that Jacobtime website...who matched the pictures with the products? The stealth titanium has the white steel picture. Good thing for Suunto product numbers.

Hopefully your SSU works out well.


----------



## bruceames

user_none said:


> Man, that Jacobtime website...who matched the pictures with the products? The stealth titanium has the white steel picture. Good thing for Suunto product numbers.
> 
> Hopefully your SSU works out well.


Yeah I was hesitant about that, but after checking out their rating and return policy (and of course knowing that I was ordering a product number) I decided to proceed with the order after going back and forth about 6 times, lol.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> Look at what peer pressure can do. Will be looking forward to your impressions.


lol, you got that right. But as you say nothing to lose by trying it out and I'd anyway rather go by my own impressions to see if it's a keeper. I'll keep the A3 though as if it has better GPS in tough areas than I'll use it there. Also for longer hikes (like the annual Whitney hike which is sometimes over 16 hours) I'll bring the A3. Heck I might bring both on the hikes since one watch I can wear on my backpack chest strap and the other on my wrist. I might end up wearing both watches for a few months (assuming I don't return it) to get a lot of comparisons before I get bored.


----------



## j--l

martowl said:


> Absolutely for field customization. When racing two screens of 3 fields is all I need and I would like to have the larger font.


Yes indeed, this is what we need! Suunto please.


----------



## wydim

martowl said:


> Look at what peer pressure can do. Will be looking forward to your impressions.


look who's talking... lol !!.


----------



## Jaka83

PTBC said:


> Know what you mean by the eyes and the screen resolution was certainly one of my considerations, I would still like to have customization option of 3 fields in a bigger font as one of the screens for quick glance option. The dim always on backlight is also a definite improvement (at this time of the year anyway) and worth the small hit to battery life.
> Would like to be able to adjust font size for messages as well, current setting is too small, sure it was bigger before last update, though it was even smaller before that.
> 
> Edit: As I have a teenage daughter I'd also like support for extended character sets that Fenix 5 will have, emoji's are the new *hieroglyphics*.


Speaking of those ... they must add support for special EU characters like Č Ć Ž Š Đ and Ö Ä Ü Ë ß in notification popups. Maybe they need a lesson in UTF-8 or something.  Right now the message just gets split in two lines whenever there's a special character involved.

@martowl
Your SSU track looks almost perfect. I haven't been doing much hiking or cycling lately because I caught the flu and have been out for a week. Also we finally got some snow and I can't wait to go out again ... hiking/skiing or whatever.

Hoping we get the next update next week.


----------



## bruceames

wydim said:


> look who's talking... lol !!.


It's actually a combination of factors that led me to getting this. But yeah peer pressure is the trigger a lot of times. Actually the impetus that got me started running marathons was simply because someone on the internet (that I have a friendly rivalry with on a fantasy football team) bragged that he just ran a marathon. However the timing was perfect (I was likely going to run marathons anyway, I just didn't know it yet until then, lol) as in this case. I'm getting more serious with my training and I remember how getting the A3P motivated me even more to train. Also the price has been coming down and being a Suunto watch owner since 2000 I think I should at least give the watch a chance (if it doesn't work out I'll just return and revert to the A3P). Also Martowl recorded a very good track and that didn't hurt.


----------



## DarkImpurity

Here's another track from my SSU haven't connected to pc in a week or two to update. I've been charging it through a wall charger.









Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


----------



## BobMiles

XCJagge said:


> Now I always try having fresh SGEE and if it is old I don't start running even if watch indicates I could, instead I wait for 45 sec or more, antenna shooting straight up (I hold my hand on my head so my body does not block any satellites). And to perfect the track I try shooting slightly up with the antenna while running, these days I just tuck some padding under the watch about the place the connectors are. It makes it turn 20..30 degrees or so better.


No offense, but I'd really love to see this  With the hand above the head in search for satellites, people must think we watch people are at least mildly crazy. 
I've found myself on satellite search as well, especially back in the times when I had a Garmin that took ages to get a fix, only to lose it again when you started off... 
I hope they'll implement a better GPS notification than the current arrow, so you can see how many satellites are locked. I'm pretty sure that would do away with at least half of the bad tracks.


----------



## eeun

martowl said:


> Hi eeun, I believe you are correct as I was one participating in those discussion and still have my T6c. However, I saw the A1P a bit differently. It was updated with a massive number of features and served me quite well, with nearly 500 moves and 2 years of activity. The A1P did not have the memory or processing power to do what everyone was clamoring for. I think Suunto realized that early and started A2P development. The uproar over the A2P did promote Suunto to max out the A1P with a final update but I personally did not feel cheated as Suunto delivered all the promised functionality with the A1P. It was requested functionality that appeared to be not possible and spurred A2P development.
> 
> So, I think Suunto will deliver promised functionality to the SSU but I would not be surprised if a new model does come out 1 yr to 1.5 yr after the SSU release. OK by me, it is my choice whether to purchase the next model or not.


The predominant issue for me was the marketing hype that stated there would be long term updates; 12 months later a new watch appears with loads of new features that effectively left the old watch behind. Suunto should not have mislead people so badly. I do agree that eventually the A1 was pretty much maxed out by software updates but IMO it was handled very badly at the time the A2 was released.

I'm mostly a huge Suunto fan having owned all 3 Ambits (still own A2 Sapphire and A3P Sapphire) and currently own 3 Cores, Observer ti, x lander, Elementum Terra and a Traverse. When it looked like my job was going to go international I almost bought a Kailash.

I'm pleased some users are seeing improvements in gps with their SSU but I would expect to see a replacement sooner rather than later, Suunto does have form here and it does make sense. I am as always watching the discussions with interest.


----------



## Pegasus

eeun said:


> The predominant issue for me was the marketing hype that stated there would be long term updates; 12 months later a new watch appears with loads of new features that effectively left the old watch behind. Suunto should not have mislead people so badly. I do agree that eventually the A1 was pretty much maxed out by software updates but IMO it was handled very badly at the time the A2 was released.
> 
> I'm mostly a huge Suunto fan having owned all 3 Ambits (still own A2 Sapphire and A3P Sapphire) and currently own 3 Cores, Observer ti, x lander, Elementum Terra and a Traverse. When it looked like my job was going to go international I almost bought a Kailash.
> 
> I'm pleased some users are seeing improvements in gps with their SSU but I would expect to see a replacement sooner rather than later, Suunto does have form here and it does make sense. I am as always watching the discussions with interest.


This would make me shift allegiance to Garmin if an new SSU is released soon with all the functionality the original was promised. It's unfair practice as these watches are not cheap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gnarls Head

I wear it like this when I`m running. A bit odd, but it works.
View attachment 10518538


----------



## martowl

Long run SSU was flawless, somehow my A3P was paused but given how I was wearing it, not surprising. Two concerns 1) Battery was 50% after 7h running but I did start in the dark, used the light more when in the dark. Still, should have been 60%. I do have the background backlight on at low level. 2) Required several tries to sync via the iPhone app. This is not the behavior I see with the A3P and needs to be fixed. No loss of Stryd footpod and HR also looks good. The A3P and SSU tracks are about identical. I did the loop twice and a short out and back, the SSU tracks are completely superimposable.

Done running with A3P for awhile, good enough for me...found out when you double tap the screen you get time of day and battery...guess I should read more

I wear the SSU normally while running and did not have watch face up to the sky.

A3P bradolwin's 4:03 h Trail running Move

SSU bradolwin's 6:57 h Trail running Move

Edit post: spoke too soon as Stryd did flatline and lost HR briefly but this was very close to very high powerlines...don't know if that might have had an effect, both happened in the same place. Stryd flatlined during my first stop, so I don't think it is SSU issue, happens with A3P too.


----------



## PTBC

Looks good, hopefully everyone will see similar performance more consistently soon, I'd expect to have a line through the lake based on my previous moves around a lake.

Does make me wonder if there are some units with issues which Suunto is ignoring until they issue a general fix the GPS so they can avoid too many warranty replacements.


----------



## Jaka83

@martowl
Yes, the only things bothering me about the hardware are the mediocre battery and the absence of the back/lap and view, light buttons. It's a thing to get used to and the battery might get *a bit* better through use during the first couple of weeks. It is close to what I'm used to with the first Ambit, but far from what you're used to with the A3P. Which is kind of sad.

PS: To get the daytime and battery charge you only need to tap once on the screen, which is a bit cumbersome while wearing thick gloves.


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> @martowl
> Yes, the only things bothering me about the hardware are the mediocre battery and the absence of the back/lap and view, light buttons.
> 
> PS: To get the daytime and battery charge you only need to tap once on the screen, which is a bit cumbersome while wearing thick gloves.


I found one tap turns on backlight and a second tap would show time and battery. Maybe it is screen dependent?


----------



## Cyberbob13

From what I experienced one tap with two fingers activates backlight. One tap with one finger shows time of day and battery status.


----------



## martowl

Cyberbob13 said:


> From what I experienced one tap with two fingers activates backlight. One tap with one finger shows time of day and battery status.


Ok. I clearly need to figure this one out.....using gloves may have confused the watch about one vs. two fingers.


----------



## PTBC

Gnarls Head said:


> I wear it like this when I`m running. A bit odd, but it works.


Tried running with the watch more put on so it was more turned so it was pointing up and changed arm angle a little as well. Runs are in an open area with similar clear skies for weather, only difference was one was -5 and the other -1, results were interesting









Track on the left is with watch re-positioned, sample of 1, but does seem a lot tighter tracking


----------



## martowl

One is A3P and one SSU two different days same run, can you tell?














Edit post: the top is SSU but I don't think anyone could guess. It turns out that I ran the course clockwise with A3P and counterclockwise with SSU. I will not be posting any comparisons anymore unless I have a bad SSU track. So far 1 walking move 1.2 miles and 3 runs ([email protected] miles and [email protected] miles) all have tracks that to my eyes are indistinguishable from A3P.

So my SSU is tracking as well as my A3P. I realize that is not the case for all.....I imagine hardware must have something to do with it otherwise I cannot explain my data. For the runs above the left track is in light but tall evergreen cover so that did not challenge the SSU sufficiently.


----------



## jhonzatko

The second one is A3P?


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> One is A3P and one SSU two different days same run, can you tell?


There seems to be a little bit of an offset to the watch hand side (assuming watch worn on left) on the first one, especially on the second half, that would be consistent with other Spartan tracks reported so I would go with 1st one is Spartan and 2nd is A3P, but really not much in it at this resolution. One of what looks like a switchback section has similar errors and these will always be challenging anyway, but both are still good.


----------



## Paulchen4711

Guys,

I have a question regarding the usage of the stryd sensor. I have paired the v 2.0 sensor successfully to the SSU (paired as "power pod") and would like to customize a sport mode, in which speed, cadence distance and power come from stryd, while the gps track is recorded via SSU. How can I do this? Second question: There is a standard mode ("Power run"), which is designed for stryd-usage. But in this mode (in the settings of it), the SSU has to check for a paired foot pod instead of a power pod. Do I have to change this? In other words: Do I need to tell SSU in the settings of this mode that it has to search for a power pod instead of a foot pod? 

Thanks. 

Paulchen


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> Ok. I clearly need to figure this one out.....using gloves may have confused the watch about one vs. two fingers.


That behavior depends on the backlight setting toggle vs auto.

This thread changed quite a bit. Now other people also say tracks are fine!!!

Two basic issues caused my decision to sell my SSU: 1) BLE sensors connectivity is limited and unreliable, 2) Inability to save locally a large set of data files in FIT format in a single batch operation. Each one of those issues can be dodged individually (given sufficient patience), but together they put a lot of stress on everything else having to function flawlessly. Which, put in a nice way, is not the case. End result: this gadget is not worth the trouble.


----------



## martowl

Paulchen4711 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I have a question regarding the usage of the stryd sensor. I have paired the v 2.0 sensor successfully to the SSU (paired as "power pod") and would like to customize a sport mode, in which speed, cadence distance and power come from stryd, while the gps track is recorded via SSU. How can I do this? Second question: There is a standard mode ("Power run"), which is designed for stryd-usage. But in this mode (in the settings of it), the SSU has to check for a paired foot pod instead of a power pod. Do I have to change this? In other words: Do I need to tell SSU in the settings of this mode that it has to search for a power pod instead of a foot pod?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Paulchen


As of now you can only use the Stryd Summit for Power OR for speed/cadence not both. Suunto has been asked to change this by beta testers and by Stryd. I don't know if or when this will be implemented but I and just about every other Stryd/Suunto owner wants this too. Sorry for the bad news.


----------



## Pegasus

LONG_HAUL said:


> That behavior depends on the backlight setting toggle vs auto.
> 
> This thread changed quite a bit. Now other people also say tracks are fine!!!
> 
> Two basic issues caused my decision to sell my SSU: 1) BLE sensors connectivity is limited and unreliable, 2) Inability to save locally a large set of data files in FIT format in a single batch operation. Each one of those issues can be dodged individually (given sufficient patience), but together they put a lot of stress on everything else having to function flawlessly. Which, put in a nice way, is not the case. End result: this gadget is not worth the trouble.


I think some have fine tracks some still have terrible ones. Is that down to bad units or harder GPS areas? We don't really know. Myself and PTBC still have drunken tracks which have not improved. I get bad tracks on clear sky areas so who knows.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> I think some have fine tracks some still have terrible ones. Is that down to bad units or harder GPS areas? We don't really know. Myself and PTBC still have drunken tracks which have not improved. I get bad tracks on clear sky areas so who knows.....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, I have had one good track that I've shown by basically wearing the watch the wrong way (which was uncomfortable) and in what would be very optimal conditions for GPS so not what I would call an endorsement of performance. Right now it seems very sensitive to direction of watch and I'm still suspicious there are some flaky units and software issues including reporting GPS lock.


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> Pegasus said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think some have fine tracks some still have terrible ones. Is that down to bad units or harder GPS areas? We don't really know. Myself and PTBC still have drunken tracks which have not improved. I get bad tracks on clear sky areas so who knows.....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have had one good track that I've shown by basically wearing the watch the wrong way (which was uncomfortable) and in what would be very optimal conditions for GPS so not what I would call an endorsement of performance. Right now it seems very sensitive to direction of watch and I'm still suspicious there are some flaky units and software issues including reporting GPS lock.
Click to expand...

I would agree!


----------



## borgelkranz

martowl said:


> As of now you can only use the Stryd Summit for Power OR for speed/cadence not both. Suunto has been asked to change this by beta testers and by Stryd. I don't know if or when this will be implemented but I and just about every other Stryd/Suunto owner wants this too. Sorry for the bad news.


Martowl is correct about this. It's good to know that other people want this too and also have asked Suunto and Stryd about it. 

If you do not want to use the power value to control your training and merely want to analyze it later on, you can connect the Stryd Summit as a footpod and use the pod's offline data in Stryd's PowerCenter.

Drawbacks:

No power value in Movescount (and therefore no sync with PowerCenter) 
No HF in Powercenter 
No altitude in PowerCenter (only relative elevation changes from the pod's barometer) 
No GPS data in PowerCenter 

Benefits:

More accurate instant pace and distance in Movescount 



Paulchen4711 said:


> [...] There is a standard mode ("Power run"), which is designed for stryd-usage. But in this mode (in the settings of it), the SSU has to check for a paired foot pod instead of a power pod. Do I have to change this? In other words: Do I need to tell SSU in the settings of this mode that it has to search for a power pod instead of a foot pod?


That's a glitch in the current firmware. I contacted Suunto's support about this and they promised me to change it in the upcoming firmware. As of now you have to clear the *Foot POD* checkbox, select the *Power POD* checkbox, save your changes and sync them to the SSU.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

borgelkranz said:


> Martowl is correct about this. It's good to know that other people want this too and also have asked Suunto and Stryd about it.
> 
> If you do not want to use the power value to control your training and merely want to analyze it later on, you can connect the Stryd Summit as a footpod and use the pod's offline data in Stryd's PowerCenter.
> 
> Drawbacks:
> 
> No power value in Movescount (and therefore no sync with PowerCenter)
> No HF in Powercenter
> No altitude in PowerCenter (only relative elevation changes from the pod's barometer)
> No GPS data in PowerCenter
> 
> Benefits:
> 
> More accurate instant pace and distance in Movescount
> 
> That's a glitch in the current firmware. I contacted Suunto's support about this and they promised me to change it in the upcoming firmware. As of now you have to clear the *Foot POD* checkbox, select the *Power POD* checkbox, save your changes and sync them to the SSU.


This is a much larger problem than just with Stryd. And that is what I mean by BLE sensor connectivity being limited and unreliable. It happens to other sensors too like cycling powermeters and ANT+ bridges. It is simply not acceptable for the SSU to only take one metric from a sensor that is broadcasting an entire host of metrics. But I have posted that info here several times. If you bought it and you frequent this forum, then it is really on you.


----------



## borgelkranz

LONG_HAUL said:


> This is a much larger problem than just with Stryd. And that is what I mean by BLE sensor connectivity being limited and unreliable. It happens to other sensors too like cycling powermeters and ANT+ bridges. It is simply not acceptable for the SSU to only take one metric from a sensor that is broadcasting an entire host of metrics. But I have posted that info here several times. If you bought it and you frequent this forum, then it is really on you.


Thought you left.  But welcome back.

Of course it's on me. But unlike you I am quite happy with my SSU and still have it. For example i really LOVE the lap tables!

Additionally, I have a knack for early adopting new gadgets and am acquainted with the frustration that comes with. Therefore, I refrain from blaming other people for the informed decisions I make. In the end it is me who bought this watch.


----------



## martowl

LONG_HAUL said:


> This is a much larger problem than just with Stryd. And that is what I mean by BLE sensor connectivity being limited and unreliable. It happens to other sensors too like cycling powermeters and ANT+ bridges. It is simply not acceptable for the SSU to only take one metric from a sensor that is broadcasting an entire host of metrics. But I have posted that info here several times. If you bought it and you frequent this forum, then it is really on you.


Since you own neither a SSU nor a Stryd Summit perhaps I can provide experience and knowledge from owning both as well as an A3P. The Stryd Summit (and Pioneer) work as reliably with the SSU as with the A3P. There is a problem with dropouts occurring in the newest Stryd firmware that I did not encounter with the older firmware, neither did most other users. Stryd and Suunto are working on this and will fix the problem. Stryd is headquartered where I work and they a great group, they have been positive regarding working with Suunto and Suunto's responsiveness to their product.

When the Pioneer was introduced (Stryd's first product) Suunto nearly immediately implemented functionality and permitted Power to be transmitted along with HR. This did not require pairing as a power pod. For me the Pioneer is completely reliable with both the SSU and the A3P but it is not nearly as sophisticated as the Summit. The Summit provides better power data and more responsive power data as well as a host of other metrics. The Summit requires pairing as a power pod for power transmission and because of BLE limitations (not because of Suunto) one cannot pair as a power pod and as a footpod. Suunto has been asked to allow power to be silently transmitted with other metrics (speed, cadence) when the Summit is paired as a footpod. My understanding is this should happen and thus, pairing as a footpod will provide all metrics. I expect this to be implemented with the Ambit as well as the SSU.

For now, you have to choose how you want to use the Stryd, either as a footpod or as a powerpod. It has nothing to do with reliability but BLE limitations. Since Stryd transmits both Ant+ and BT one might be able to use a bridge to solve some this, I don't know.

@borgelkranz and a few others here have experience and therefore knowledge....they know what they are talking about. Despite @LongHaul's posts, I recently purchased an SSU and I have been frank about what I like and don't like. BLE connectivity has not been a problem for me so far. I will keep you all posted and if you have questions regarding the Stryd there is a wealth of info on their forums or ask some of us here, we are happy to help.


----------



## BobMiles

I agree with martowl - except for the BLE connectivity issues. I own a stryd and I get connection drops without reconnect. According to stryd team, the issue is on SSU side and suunto is aware of it. I also get connection drops with my HR belt, but reconnect does work and the missing data is transferred from the sensor cache. 
So I think suunto has still some isses to solve in their Bluetooth stack.


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## bruceames

martowl said:


> My understanding is this should happen and thus, pairing as a footpod will provide all metrics. I expect this to be implemented with the Ambit as well as the SSU.


That would be great, but will the distance still be based on GPS or revert to the footpod (like the regular footpods now)? The GPS would be more accurate in terms of distance (AFAIK, but correct me if I'm wrong) but of course pacing accuracy is better with a footpod. That's the reason I don't use a footpod now, because I have to pick my poison.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

borgelkranz said:


> Thought you left.  But welcome back.
> 
> Of course it's on me. But unlike you I am quite happy with my SSU and still have it. For example i really LOVE the lap tables!
> 
> Additionally, I have a knack for early adopting new gadgets and am acquainted with the frustration that comes with. Therefore, I refrain from blaming other people for the informed decisions I make. In the end it is me who bought this watch.


@borgelkranz: I quoted you but I sort of meant anyone in general. I think I remember you among the first users to post here and so you bought it way before anyone had a sense for what was working and not working. Sorry for the confusion.

I do have access to a SSU although I no longer own one. So I can play with it every now and then for sort periods. 
The BLE limitations were reported by many, not just me, particularly with respect to cycling powermeters. And as mentioned can be dodged but not really solved. In the case of the SSU, ANT+ bridges offer very limited help as well. I own several sensors and don't have issues getting all data from them, unless if using the SSU. I get a better overall experience from a phone app then SSU. And then the whole thing about move files being only accessible on their respective page on Movescount is simply not workable. Specifically, pool swims data cannot really be analyzed anywhere else other than Movescount. That in itself would have caused me to not buy the SSU, had I known that. I assumed I could easily collect my moves data, and that I could inspect my swims outside of Movescount.


----------



## bruceames

LONG_HAUL said:


> And then the whole thing about move files being only accessible on their respective page on Movescount is simply not workable. Specifically, pool swims data cannot really be analyzed anywhere else other than Movescount. That in itself would have caused me to not buy the SSU, had I known that. I assumed I could easily collect my moves data, and that I could inspect my swims outside of Movescount.


I don't do swim moves, but all my moves are automatically synced with Strava, Training Peaks and Sporttracks (from Movescount of course). I use Sporttracks more than any other program to analyze my data. Are you referring to swim moves only or all moves?


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> That would be great, but will the distance still be based on GPS or revert to the footpod (like the regular footpods now)? The GPS would be more accurate in terms of distance (AFAIK, but correct me if I'm wrong) but of course pacing accuracy is better with a footpod. That's the reason I don't use a footpod now, because I have to pick my poison.


The Stryd Summit distance should be more accurate than GPS. I would like to use this with a 1 min GPS fix so I do not have to recharge. I don't care if the GPS track is a bit off as long as the distance and pacing are good, which would come from the footpod.


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> .......had I known that. I assumed I could easily collect my moves data, and that I could inspect my swims outside of Movescount.


I've had no problem exporting data and pulling it back into other sites or even spreadsheets for analysis, not tried it with swimming, but the export options for FIT & XLSX are there


----------



## LONG_HAUL

bruceames said:


> I don't do swim moves, but all my moves are automatically synced with Strava, Training Peaks and Sporttracks (from Movescount of course). I use Sporttracks more than any other program to analyze my data. Are you referring to swim moves only or all moves?


Bruce, as far as batch processing, I'm referring to any type of move. One simple way to describe the functionality is this: access to all FIT files in one location. More specifically, I want to be able to backup, subdivide, regroup, and delete files or add my own. You can think of subdirectories organized by year and month, each containing files from SSU and other units. No magic. Just my data. The data I worked hard to get and want to be able to input into a tool I purchase for local analysis three years from now. With respect to swimming, FIT files obtained through any methods are useless to me at this point in time. By the way, I do have all my FIT files recorded with the SSU. It is not impossible to get things going. Just painfully time consuming, requires internet access and member accounts all over, for no reason.


----------



## Cassote

Guys have anyone noticed that the Watchface gets blank if the Watch is sitting on its side for some seconds ? And if you move it a bit it wakes up again ? Never noticed this before...


----------



## user_none

Cassote said:


> Guys have anyone noticed that the Watchface gets blank if the Watch is sitting on its side for some seconds ? And if you move it a bit it wakes up again ? Never noticed this before...


Yes, it's a power saving function. Same as with Ambit3.


----------



## rdm01

LONG_HAUL said:


> @borgelkranz: I quoted you but I sort of meant anyone in general. I think I remember you among the first users to post here and so you bought it way before anyone had a sense for what was working and not working. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> I do have access to a SSU although I no longer own one. So I can play with it every now and then for sort periods.
> The BLE limitations were reported by many, not just me, particularly with respect to cycling powermeters. And as mentioned can be dodged but not really solved. In the case of the SSU, ANT+ bridges offer very limited help as well. I own several sensors and don't have issues getting all data from them, unless if using the SSU. I get a better overall experience from a phone app then SSU. And then the whole thing about move files being only accessible on their respective page on Movescount is simply not workable. Specifically, pool swims data cannot really be analyzed anywhere else other than Movescount. That in itself would have caused me to not buy the SSU, had I known that. I assumed I could easily collect my moves data, and that I could inspect my swims outside of Movescount.


I hadn't any single drop with my Stages powemeter and my SSU. The same it's aplicable to the Polar H7 HR belt I'm using. So in my experience the SSU's BLE isn't unreliable.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Cassote

user_none said:


> Yes, it's a power saving function. Same as with Ambit3.


Thought as much , but never noticed it before .... I'm always wearing the ssu ... thanks for the enlightening ...


----------



## user_none

Cassote said:


> Thought as much , but never noticed it before .... I'm always wearing the ssu ... thanks for the enlightening ...


There's also a display mode with the latest firmware that has the watch face on all the time with a very low backlight. Although, I don't recall if it still goes into the power saving, face-off mode.


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## PTBC

user_none said:


> There's also a display mode with the latest firmware that has the watch face on all the time with a very low backlight. Although, I don't recall if it still goes into the power saving, face-off mode.


Yes it still goes into power saving blank mode and when it does it also turns off the low level light


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> Yes it still goes into power saving blank mode and when it does it also turns off the low level light


(Hey PTBC! Good to see you still around.)

Yes, but it does the blank screen thingy also while recording a workout which is pretty pathetic. If I put the watch on a stable surface next to my bike/trainer I need to keep bumping it when I want to see the time/avr power/etc...


----------



## Cassote

user_none said:


> There's also a display mode with the latest firmware that has the watch face on all the time with a very low backlight. Although, I don't recall if it still goes into the power saving, face-off mode.


That was how imjoticed it ... I usually turn standby at the end of the day of work off to home since it's when I have lower light . And yesterday I took out the Watch while on the guitar and having dim light I noticed the Watch was not turned on and even thought it would be a malfunction ...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Cassote said:


> That was how imjoticed it ... I usually turn standby at the end of the day of work off to home since it's when I have lower light . And yesterday I took out the Watch while on the guitar and having dim light I noticed the Watch was not turned on and even thought it would be a malfunction ...


Since it looks like an MIP display, maybe shutting down the touch screen is what really needs to be accomplished in order to get some power savings. And maybe shutting down the touch screen requires shutting down the display. Tough to tell if touching alone wakes it up, without disturbing it enough for the accelerometer to pick up the movement.


----------



## Pegasus

We should be due an update soon I would hope. Over a month since the last isn't it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ascender

I've not been following the thread since I returned my Spartan, but I've a few friends who are on the lookout for a new watch and want to stick with Suunto but are considering the Fenix. Has the software been updated to be less laggy when scrolling through menus? At the time we didn't know if it was poorly optimised code or if the hardware just wasn't up to spec to run it so it really wasn't smooth. Just wondering if at least that has been fixed?


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## Cassote

Found this about spartan platform : https://www.reaktor.com/cases/suunto/


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## Pegasus

I still get lag when pressing a button when the screen is locked, the lag between screens is the same as it was as far as I can tell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cassote

I think lag has not been addressed in any of the previous updates.the link on the post I wrote before speaks about JavaScript and HTML for the spartan platform ... anyone with experience on this programming languages can give a thought on if it's possible to improve the response and optimize about the lag ? Or it would need new hardware ?


----------



## martowl

Cassote said:


> I think lag has not been addressed in any of the previous updates.the link on the post I wrote before speaks about JavaScript and HTML for the spartan platform ... anyone with experience on this programming languages can give a thought on if it's possible to improve the response and optimize about the lag ? Or it would need new hardware ?


I don't see much lag, perhaps half of a second to go from backlight off to showing the seconds hand when I press the center button. I do not have any apparent lag when swiping screens. I do see a lag when tapping the watch screen to display the altitude but it is rather short. Is this the lag you are referring to?


----------



## ascender

The main lag which was evident was when swiping up and down on the main screen to access the sub-menus which are icons. You could almost see the redraw of the icon as it appeared when swiping up and down - just really slow.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

ascender said:


> The main lag which was evident was when swiping up and down on the main screen to access the sub-menus which are icons. You could almost see the redraw of the icon as it appeared when swiping up and down - just really slow.


And when starting an activity when the log already had a significant number of moves stored. Did that change?


----------



## PTBC

Cassote said:


> Found this about spartan platform : https://www.reaktor.com/cases/suunto/


There's some gems in that link, a real piece of marketing fluff

Javascript/HTML for the movescount site/application I can understand, but they built a javascript engine into the watch!

"What was innovative about the new platform was that the team managed to model a full Javascript Engine into the watch - think smartphone operating system meets device with limited memory space." not saying its my area of expertise, but my first thought was What? and Why? if someone else with relevant experience can explain that decision I'd be interested

"Owing to this bold and unusual choice for a low-power, embedded system, Suunto's developers and designers can now easily craft content and features to the clock." as demonstrated by the incredibly feature rich launch and resulting pace of development and sophisticated features being added (alarm clock!)

"The success of the Spartan project also demonstrated the power of agile methods in the bigger picture - low-threshold feedback from users mean better prioritization of new features and hence, happier customers." are we sure they are talking about the same project here, though the idea that they used an 'agile' approach doesn't surprise me (assuming they are using it as a buzzword rather than having followed a proper methodology)

"With the help of Reaktor's management consultants, Suunto's management team is crafting faster feedback loops for research and development." doesnt help if customer service is a bottle neck (or black hole they queries just disappear into)

"Today, Suunto Spartan solution's delicate sensors, uncompromised data analysis, and meticulous GPS tracking pushes modern-day athletes everywhere reach their physical peaks." ok so meticulous is a new one in describing GPS, but have they not been following whats happened since the product launched.


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> And when starting an activity when the log already had a significant number of moves stored. Did that change?


Not really, it is better than when it was first released though and of course as it wipes the logs every time you update there always seems to be an improvement at first.
Given the article said that it's running a HTML/Javascript engine and UI in an embedded system then code optimisation may well be an issue, as in optimisation of the code and/or of the javascript engine code


----------



## Cassote

That's why I questioned ... it felt strange to me that they revealed this kind of info when we are in the dark with updates.. but that's why we discuss this things


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Cassote said:


> That's why I questioned ... it felt strange to me that they revealed this kind of info when we are in the dark with updates.. but that's why we discuss this things


I agree we can talk about it. But knowledgeably identifying underlying perfomance bottle necks/choke points by simply knowing the generics of the technology/framework/language used would still require psychic abilities, which I lack at the moment.


----------



## Cassote

LONG_HAUL said:


> I agree we can talk about it. But knowledgeably identifying underlying perfomance bottle necks/choke points by simply knowing the generics of the technology/framework/language used would still require psychic abilities, which I lack at the moment.


Not beeing an insider it's only speculation , but as an example , you know that if you usually run 20km in 1h , you will not expect to run 30km from overnight , correct ? You know that it's possible maybe to run 1km more or so ... you can estimate things by experience . that was the main reason I pointed out that question .


----------



## bruceames

Just got the SSU a few minutes ago. Noticed when I choose an activity (such as running), it automatically goes to the start screen and doesn't tell you if the connected pods are found or if you have GPS fix? How do I know if I have a fix?


----------



## fotomas

bruceames said:


> Just got the SSU a few minutes ago. Noticed when I choose an activity (such as running), it automatically goes to the start screen and doesn't tell you if the connected pods are found or if you have GPS fix? How do I know if I have a fix?


The GPS arrow and the heart goes from outlined to solid symbols.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

fotomas said:


> The GPS arrow and the heart goes from outlined to solid symbols.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


It always show the heart icon, even if you don't have a heart rate monitor paired (it then, of course, never becomes solid). As long as it is selected for the sport, the icon is shown. And it never shows pods (foot, bike, or power pods), even you have them paired and selected for the sport. You cannot see the battery status for any of the sensors (relevant in endurance work). The statuses of all sensors are ALWAYS "disconnected" on the Bluetooth paired devices screen (unless for mobile device/cell phone). It is beyond belief.


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> Just got the SSU a few minutes ago. Noticed when I choose an activity (such as running), it automatically goes to the start screen and doesn't tell you if the connected pods are found or if you have GPS fix? How do I know if I have a fix?


With both my A3P and SSU it can take 25 to 50 feet of running before the power appears on the watch display. So don't worry if when you press start you do not see power immediately, it should show up soon....for you too @user none.

Let me know if you have questions. @Paul1928 (hope I have the numbers right) is a fount of knowledge regarding SSU and Stryd.


----------



## BobMiles

martowl said:


> With both my A3P and SSU it can take 25 to 50 feet of running before the power appears on the watch display. So don't worry if when you press start you do not see power immediately, it should show up soon....for you too @user none.
> 
> Let me know if you have questions. @Paul1928 (hope I have the numbers right) is a fount of knowledge regarding SSU and Stryd.


The power display is a 3 seconds average in the current implementation. That's why it shows '--' in the beginning until it got 3 seconds of power data. 
However its a pity the sensors are not indicated. At least the Stryd summit flashes shortly once you start the workout...


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> *The Stryd Summit distance should be more accurate than GPS*. I would like to use this with a 1 min GPS fix so I do not have to recharge. I don't care if the GPS track is a bit off as long as the distance and pacing are good, which would come from the footpod.


So you don't calibrate the Stryd Summit with GPS then? I thought that's how you calculate regular foot pods, as they really can't be more accurate, distance-wise, then what they are being calibrated with. I know pace is more accurate of course, since there is no lag.

If that's the case, then would the Summit be more accurate than a regular foot pod, both in real-time pace and overall distance? And could one have two Summits paired at one time, one for power, and the other for pace?


----------



## borgelkranz

bruceames said:


> So you don't calibrate the Stryd Summit with GPS then? I thought that's how you calculate regular foot pods, as they really can't be more accurate, distance-wise, then what they are being calibrated with. I know pace is more accurate of course, since there is no lag.
> 
> If that's the case, then would the Summit be more accurate than a regular foot pod, both in real-time pace and overall distance? And could one have two Summits paired at one time, one for power, and the other for pace?


Correct, you don't have to calibrate it. And I experience it as very accurate.

Some people in the Stryd forum ask for calibration, but this discussion pertains to the fact that some experience the pod to systematically over-/undershoot by as stable percentage.

Concerning the other question, I asked Suunto support to forward taking all metrics from the pod as feature request. Maybe we're lucky...

Sent from mTalk


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> So you don't calibrate the Stryd Summit with GPS then? I thought that's how you calculate regular foot pods, as they really can't be more accurate, distance-wise, then what they are being calibrated with. I know pace is more accurate of course, since there is no lag.
> 
> If that's the case, then would the Summit be more accurate than a regular foot pod, both in real-time pace and overall distance? And could one have two Summits paired at one time, one for power, and the other for pace?


The Stryd folks told me there is an insane amount of electronics in the footpod and they cannot display all of the data. The pod tracks the motion of the foot so they can see how everyone moves their feet. The Stryd should be more accurate than GPS and does not need calibration as it measures your exact stride length with every step. It does not matter if you are running or walking.


----------



## Zirconn

PTBC said:


> There's some gems in that link, a real piece of marketing fluff
> 
> Javascript/HTML for the movescount site/application I can understand, but they built a javascript engine into the watch!
> 
> "What was innovative about the new platform was that the team managed to model a full Javascript Engine into the watch - think smartphone operating system meets device with limited memory space." not saying its my area of expertise, but my first thought was What? and Why? if someone else with relevant experience can explain that decision I'd be interested


It makes writing complex UIs a lot easier but since it's a damn multisport watch, you don't need that kind of flexibility.
Javascript and HTML engines in a multisport watch = really, really bad thing to do, a waste of resources.

So, either the retards at Suunto allowed an "architect" to sell them a very stupid technical solution or the retards at Suunto intended to make a smartwatch. In either case, If I knew about it I wouldn't have bought the damn thing!


----------



## PTBC

Zirconn said:


> It makes writing complex UIs a lot easier but since it's a damn multisport watch, you don't need that kind of flexibility.
> Javascript and HTML engines in a multisport watch = really, really bad thing to do, a waste of resources.
> 
> So, either the retards at Suunto allowed an "architect" to sell them a very stupid technical solution or the retards at Suunto intended to make a smartwatch. In either case, If I knew about it I wouldn't have bought the damn thing!


Would make developing apps to run on the watch easier I suppose, but it launched with no ability for apps and the vaguest of promises that they would look into implementing it in the future. Im assuming someone got into the ear of a Suunto exec and sold it to them, maybe on fixing development time and R&D cycle bottlenecks, the marketing fluff refers to it being a bold and unusual decision which is one of the few things in there I wouldn't argue with.


----------



## bruceames

I created a new running sports mode, but there is no slide switch to have it show up in my short list. How can I get this new mode to show up on my watch?

Hard to believe that none of the stock running or trail running modes have altitude. Even "mountain" mode doesn't have it. Would would they think that no one is interested in knowing what your current elevation is?


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> I created a new running sports mode, but there is no slide switch to have it show up in my short list. How can I get this new mode to show up on my watch?
> 
> Hard to believe that none of the stock running or trail running modes have altitude. Even "mountain" mode doesn't have it. Would would they think that no one is interested in knowing what your current elevation is?


If you added the new sport mode to the existing modes it will appear in the short list. Attitude profile should be coming in he next update. Caught a cold, otherwise would have a great ski tour today


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> If you added the new sport mode to the existing modes it will appear in the short list. Attitude profile should be coming in he next update. Caught a cold, otherwise would have a great ski tour today


Oh I see it now, had to scroll down more in my watch, doh!

Look forward to the next update!


----------



## bruceames

Watch did great on my long run today. Track just as good as the A3P. i am having occasional syncing problems with the iphone though, which I resolve by power-cycling the phone.


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> Watch did great on my long run today. Track just as good as the A3P. i am having occasional syncing problems with the iphone though, which I resolve by power-cycling the phone.


I am having the same sync issues, send in a bug report via the iPhone app. I will check out the runs, good to hear.


----------



## user_none

martowl said:


> I am having the same sync issues, send in a bug report via the iPhone app. I will check out the runs, good to hear.


Do you have a spare iOS device that you could factory reset, then install only Movescount and test?

In another thread I mentioned my inability to upgrade firmware on my Rhythm+ with a work provided iPhone 6S+ that's been in use without a reset for at least a year. I also couldn't update a Suunto Smart Sensor belt with the same phone. I have a freebie (gift from a customer) iPhone 5S that's very clean, as in a reset not too long ago and only essential fitness/outdoors apps. It had zero problems updating both the Rhythm+ and the Smart Sensor belt.


----------



## paul1928

bruceames said:


> If that's the case, then would the Summit be more accurate than a regular foot pod, both in real-time pace and overall distance? And could one have two Summits paired at one time, one for power, and the other for pace?


Yes, this works just fine. You just need to be careful with the actual pairing process so you don't accidentally pair both profiles to the one device.


----------



## bruceames

paul1928 said:


> Yes, this works just fine. You just need to be careful with the actual pairing process so you don't accidentally pair both profiles to the one device.


Well that would be one expensive foot pod, but it's a option in case Suunto doesn't implement the simultaneous use of power and pace from a single Stryd.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> I am having the same sync issues, send in a bug report via the iPhone app. I will check out the runs, good to hear.


Ok I will.

Gotta admit that I am stoked about this watch now. If I'm going to continue to get tracks like this for my normal training runs then I'll be a happy camper. Sure the A3P will beat it in more challenging covered areas, but honestly the only areas like that I do with any significance is hiking in the Sierras. I bring the Garmin handheld for those hikes and anyway I can still the A3P along and attach it to pack so it still gets some use.

I like swiping vs. pressing the buttons, as I'm used to that with my Apple watch (which looks ugly compared to the SSU, would like to wear the SSU as a day watch, but it's too big for work and I need more smartwatch functions).

Here's the tracks for an out/back 18 miler this morning. Can't tell which if any is any better. The SSU distance was .04 miles shorter.

A3P

SSU


----------



## bruceames

user_none said:


> In another thread I mentioned my inability to upgrade firmware on my Rhythm+ with a work provided iPhone 6S+ that's been in use without a reset for at least a year. I also couldn't update a Suunto Smart Sensor belt with the same phone. I have a freebie (gift from a customer) iPhone 5S that's very clean, as in a reset not too long ago and only essential fitness/outdoors apps. It had zero problems updating both the Rhythm+ and the Smart Sensor belt.


I couldn't update the firmware either. What is the latest FW? I might already have it. But anyway I'll likely return it. I get good readings but it doesn't feel right on my arm. I'm sure most of that is being used to the chest strap, but I'd rather wear two of the comfortable Suunto straps than one chest strap and one arm strap (not that I wll wear two straps, but I tried it out of curiosity once and it wasn't bad at all). The only thing keeping me from returning it would be if my wife wanted to use it.


----------



## user_none

bruceames said:


> I couldn't update the firmware either. What is the latest FW? I might already have it. But anyway I'll likely return it. I get good readings but it doesn't feel right on my arm. I'm sure most of that is being used to the chest strap, but I'd rather wear two of the comfortable Suunto straps than one chest strap and one arm strap (not that I wll wear two straps, but I tried it out of curiosity once and it wasn't bad at all). The only thing keeping me from returning it would be if my wife wanted to use it.


Latest firmware for the Rhythm+ is 2.62. It's really a great unit and I've switched over to it completely except when I want to do a head-to-head test with the chest strap. If you haven't already, give it a try on your upper arm, just above the bicep.


----------



## bruceames

user_none said:


> Latest firmware for the Rhythm+ is 2.62. It's really a great unit and I've switched over to it completely except when I want to do a head-to-head test with the chest strap. If you haven't already, give it a try on your upper arm, just above the bicep.


That's where I've been wearing it. It's fine for moves lasting an hour or less, but longer than that it's starts to get irritating and it'll probably be worse in summer.

I had FW 2.6, but was just successful in updating to 2.62 (I have the iphone 7 plus) Don't know what's improved in that though.

I'll try it out for a while longer, but it was annoying getting my A3P to recognize it the last few times. I had to pair it again in order for it to find it.


----------



## user_none

bruceames said:


> That's where I've been wearing it. It's fine for moves lasting an hour or less, but longer than that it's starts to get irritating and it'll probably be worse in summer.
> 
> I had FW 2.6, but was just successful in updating to 2.62 (I have the iphone 7 plus) Don't know what's improved in that though.
> 
> I'll try it out for a while longer, but it was annoying getting my A3P to recognize it the last few times. I had to pair it again in order for it to find it.


I've worn it exclusively on my upper arm with no irritation. Maybe wash it with some perfume and dye free detergent? I use shampoo on it.

I think 2.62 introduced music control, or something like that.

I haven't had any problems with pairing to the A3P, and it's been solid during moves. Huh, writing that I'm actually kind of impressed since I'm usually not all that impressed with Bluetooth. Maybe a force firmware upgrade on the A3P?


----------



## bruceames

user_none said:


> I've worn it exclusively on my upper arm with no irritation. Maybe wash it with some perfume and dye free detergent? I use shampoo on it.
> 
> I think 2.62 introduced music control, or something like that.
> 
> I haven't had any problems with pairing to the A3P, and it's been solid during moves. Huh, writing that I'm actually kind of impressed since I'm usually not all that impressed with Bluetooth. Maybe a force firmware upgrade on the A3P?


I would never substitute for a chest strap. Even though the HR readings are within a few beats, the R-R is unusable. My FirstBeat software has been giving R-R error reading of between 55-65% (by contrast, the latest R-R error for the chest strap was only 1%) And although the average HR in MC is within a beat of each other, the PTE is way different: 3.4 in my latest move for the chest strap (which is around what it should be) and 4.1 for the Scosche. The higher PTE is a reflection on the high error and high volatility of the HR reading compared to the chest strap. If one doesn't care about EPOC/PTE or HRV at all, then it doesn't matter. But for me although it's not that important, it's still another training tool I can utilize and I want to have good R-R data for historical post analysis as well.


----------



## krazyeone

bruceames said:


> I would never substitute for a chest strap. Even though the HR readings are within a few beats, the R-R is unusable. My FirstBeat software has been giving R-R error reading of between 55-65% (by contrast, the latest R-R error for the chest strap was only 1%) And although the average HR in MC is within a beat of each other, the PTE is way different: 3.4 in my latest move for the chest strap (which is around what it should be) and 4.1 for the Scosche. The higher PTE is a reflection on the high error and high volatility of the HR reading compared to the chest strap. If one doesn't care about EPOC/PTE or HRV at all, then it doesn't matter. But for me although it's not that important, it's still another training tool I can utilize and I want to have good R-R data for historical post analysis as well.


I am courious can you analyse with firstbeat(I have it but only trial) what is the error reading 
I had PTE 5.0 from this training(on indoor trainer), this is zone 4 for me (If I had set them correctly), I felt it hard enough

GeorgeOprea's 1:00 h Indoor cycling Move


----------



## bruceames

krazyeone said:


> I am courious can you analyse with firstbeat(I have it but only trial) what is the error reading
> I had PTE 5.0 from this training(on indoor trainer), this is zone 4 for me (If I had set them correctly), I felt it hard enough
> 
> GeorgeOprea's 1:00 h Indoor cycling Move


Yes you can analyze with FirstBeat. The Movecount software performance metrics (except recovery) is based off FirstBeat. But as I said you have to use a chest strap to get any use out of them, since it uses R-R. The Scosche optical monitor is useless for R-R.


----------



## krazyeone

bruceames said:


> Yes you can analyze with FirstBeat. The Movecount software performance metrics (except recovery) is based off FirstBeat. But as I said you have to use a chest strap to get any use out of them, since it uses R-R. The Scosche optical monitor is useless for R-R.


You are right 
https://i.imgur.com/t8l1MrI.png

Wonder why this marketing tam tam about Optical HR on devices , if Scosche cannot record good R-R and the rest are even bad

I prefer armband from chest hr although I wear belts from last 6 years


----------



## bruceames

krazyeone said:


> You are right
> https://i.imgur.com/t8l1MrI.png
> 
> Wonder why this marketing tam tam about Optical HR on devices , if Scosche cannot record good R-R and the rest are even bad
> 
> I prefer armband from chest hr although I wear belts from last 6 years


Well most people don't need the R-R metrics, so far those people the Scosche will work fine. I use HR zones and Trimpexp mainly in my training, and the Scosche works just fine for that (at least in my case, as I have compared the time spent in 10 zones on each device in Sporttracks and they are very close).

But yeah it is deceiving if they advertise R-R, giving the impression that the data is useful, which it's not. And really few people are going to be aware that its not anyway, since very few programs out there measure R-R accuracy (actually the only one I know is FB).

Edit: Also want to add that those who use the Scosche and depend on the Recovery metric, that (I believe) doesn't use R-R so you should be OK. If it does use R-R, then its effect would be very minor, as recovery use duration and the distribution of your HR in the zones (basically like Trimp).


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> Ok I will.
> 
> Gotta admit that I am stoked about this watch now. If I'm going to continue to get tracks like this for my normal training runs then I'll be a happy camper. Sure the A3P will beat it in more challenging covered areas, but honestly the only areas like that I do with any significance is hiking in the Sierras. I bring the Garmin handheld for those hikes and anyway I can still the A3P along and attach it to pack so it still gets some use.
> 
> I like swiping vs. pressing the buttons, as I'm used to that with my Apple watch (which looks ugly compared to the SSU, would like to wear the SSU as a day watch, but it's too big for work and I need more smartwatch functions).
> 
> Here's the tracks for an out/back 18 miler this morning. Can't tell which if any is any better. The SSU distance was .04 miles shorter.
> 
> A3P
> 
> SSU


Looks, good, after some good tracks mine is back to playing up......








I'm guessing from the way it's just drawing a series of straight lines that it's not actually using GPS for all the points


----------



## bruceames

PTBC said:


> Looks, good, after some good tracks mine is back to playing up......
> View attachment 10615674
> 
> 
> I'm guessing from the way it's just drawing a series of straight lines that it's not actually using GPS for all the points


Yeah that doesn't look good. I'll be wearing the A3P and the SSU for a while on my runs, to get a better idea of how they compare and until I feel comfortable leaving the A3P behind. I've only done 3 moves and they all look good, but I still haven't run on the more challenging trails and there is the possibility of the watch having a bad day like you did above.


----------



## PTBC

Its the inconsistencies that are annoying, running intervals with a groups (with loop backs) around a block with clear skies and it goes from spot on to going through houses and one bend it never shows as being on the road. That would be within GPS +/- margin I know, but annoying when it can tell what side of the street you are on one minute to being all over the place next minute. Impacts using the watch in real time as well.

Similar through tree coverage it nails the last part of the trail and misses the first part, another guy in group had a Garmin and on Strava his track looks a lot better, overall distance was close enough not to be an issue though.


----------



## bruceames

How do you check the battery level when you not in the middle of a move?


----------



## Cassote

bruceames said:


> How do you check the battery level when you not in the middle of a move?


You tap on the screen ... also if you pause you can press middle button to cycle between information and there's also the battery life and time


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> How do you check the battery level when you not in the middle of a move?


Its displayed on the bottom of the main menu option for Exercise (running stick figure), other than that it will put a low battery icon on the watchface if you drop below 20%

Good job they went with a development environment that allowed for complex UI and rapid feature development isn't it.


----------



## Cassote

PTBC said:


> Its displayed on the bottom of the main menu option for Exercise (running stick figure), other than that it will put a low battery icon on the watchface if you drop below 20%
> 
> Good job they went with a development environment that allowed for complex UI and rapid feature development isn't it.


Damn I misread his question ... but the battery icon now changes overtime


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> How do you check the battery level when you not in the middle of a move?


Tap the screen. Shows time of day and battery. Rather nice implementation I think.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> Tap the screen. Shows time of day and battery. Rather nice implementation I think.


Yeah that is a cool feature during exercise mode.


----------



## bruceames

PTBC said:


> Its displayed on the bottom of the main menu option for Exercise (running stick figure), other than that it will put a low battery icon on the watchface if you drop below 20%
> 
> Good job they went with a development environment that allowed for complex UI and rapid feature development isn't it.


Wow no wonder I missed it, that's really small print there and low contrast, lol.


----------



## Sobul

How do I chceck exercise information when I press Pause. Only total exercise time is showing and time and battery level after middle button press. It is really ugly don´t see exercise information in pause time.


----------



## jhonzatko

martowl said:


> Tap the screen. Shows time of day and battery. Rather nice implementation I think.


It would be nice, if possible with buttons too. Personally, i don't use touch screen and can't understand, why is here so much screens, which are not accessible with buttons.
It doesn't make sense for me ...


----------



## martowl

jhonzatko said:


> It would be nice, if possible with buttons too. Personally, i don't use touch screen and can't understand, why is here so much screens, which are not accessible with buttons.
> It doesn't make sense for me ...


While I see your point, if I am running a race I lock the buttons as I do not want to inadvertently pause or stop the activity. I found the tap worked well with gloves on whereas a button press may be more difficult. With only 3 buttons, there is a limit to what the buttons can do.


----------



## bruceames

After about a minute in time mode, the watch face doesn't respond to swipes or presses. I have to push a button first. Is that normal?


----------



## Cyberbob13

bruceames said:


> After about a minute in time mode, the watch face doesn't respond to swipes or presses. I have to push a button first. Is that normal?


The same for me so I guess that's normal behavior.


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> After about a minute in time mode, the watch face doesn't respond to swipes or presses. I have to push a button first. Is that normal?


It is normal and the watch face will not show all options. This is a powersaving mode. Probably a good idea as shirt or coat sleeves would activate the screen and drain the battery or change screens, start a move or other weird things.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> It is normal and the watch face will not show all options. This is a powersaving mode. Probably a good idea as shirt or coat sleeves would activate the screen and drain the battery or change screens, start a move or other weird things.


You're probably right. The Apple watch you can touch or swipe at any time, but has a screen which won't work respond to touches over clothing. Since I've heard the SSU responds to presses from a gloved hand, one could inadvertently change screens much more easily with the SSU.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> Wow no wonder I missed it, that's really small print there and low contrast, lol.


Yes, I find it hard to read, it was certainly designed with the younger user in mind I'd say, I had to ask the same question last September


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> It is normal and the watch face will not show all options. This is a powersaving mode. Probably a good idea as shirt or coat sleeves would activate the screen and drain the battery or change screens, start a move or other weird things.


I had the touch screen respond to clothing recently which hadn't happened before, the watchface was wet as it was raining so that was likely the main factor


----------



## PTBC

Anyone think there's much chance of an update this week, tomorrow is the last Wednesday in January (most of the updates have been mid-week) and it's been over a month since the last update.

The lack of communication is frustrating


----------



## PTBC

From an article in 2014 about using javascript in embedded systems. The part in bold is my emphasis

Is JavaScript the Right Choice? I feel the need to ask this question - is it a good choice to run JavaScript on an embedded system? If you're a hobbyist, or want to experiment with technology, and JavaScript is your thing, I'd say go for it. Both projects have potential and possibilities for creating interesting applications. However, if you're going for a professional solution, I'd say: NO (in capital letters, indeed). An embedded system should be dependable and predictable. There is *no way to guarantee correct timing and response times* with code that runs on an interpreter. *Memory management is another thing which may be quite critical* in a system with little memory.

https://www.sitepoint.com/javascript-embedded-systems-good-fit/


----------



## rotia

They should update moveslink software before the firmware :-(

Doesn't smell a update soon :-O


----------



## dosenfisch

martowl said:


> It is normal and the watch face will not show all options. This is a powersaving mode. Probably a good idea as shirt or coat sleeves would activate the screen and drain the battery or change screens, start a move or other weird things.


Suunto is using the LPM013M091A Display from JDI. It can act as a "normal" 30Hz or 60Hz Screen with 18bit color depth (262K colors) but also has a power saving mode, which stores the individual color per pixel within its own memory and don't need a regular refresh from the system. This way, it needs way less power. On the downside, it can only use 8 colors this mode (black, white, cyan, magenta, yellow, red, green and blue). For example, the purple and the pink watch faces share the same color (magenta) in power saving mode.


----------



## j--l

PTBC said:


> Yes, I find it hard to read, it was certainly designed with the younger user in mind I'd say, I had to ask the same question last September


Yes indeed, on quite a few places the font is miniscular. Why not use font that is more readable. Trying to see the battery and time when running - flooded with sweat, trying to grasp some air with blurred vision - is not too easy right now. I hope they would address these, it would be much more user friendly.


----------



## PTBC

dosenfisch said:


> Suunto is using the LPM013M091A Display from JDI. It can act as a "normal" 30Hz or 60Hz Screen with 18bit color depth (262K colors) but also has a power saving mode, which stores the individual color per pixel within its own memory and don't need a regular refresh from the system. This way, it needs way less power. On the downside, it can only use 8 colors this mode (black, white, cyan, magenta, yellow, red, green and blue). For example, the purple and the pink watch faces share the same color (magenta) in power saving mode.


Thanks, interesting to know explains the colour shcemes I guess (9 options including the coppery one), I find all the colour disappears when it's in power saving mode, based on above that's because I use the coppery colour scheme I guess, will try it with the green or blue maybe and see what happens


----------



## bruceames

j--l said:


> Yes indeed, on quite a few places the font is miniscular. Why not use font that is more readable. Trying to see the battery and time when running - flooded with sweat, trying to grasp some air with blurred vision - is not too easy right now. I hope they would address these, it would be much more user friendly.


I found that I was able to read it ok, but really I wouldn't use that feature much at all during a regular run, as I know the battery will last and will have a good idea what time it is. But during long moves like hikes and ultras it's especially useful, and at walking pace it won't be hard to read at all.


----------



## j--l

bruceames said:


> I found that I was able to read it ok, but really I wouldn't use that feature much at all during a regular run, as I know the battery will last and will have a good idea what time it is. But during long moves like hikes and ultras it's especially useful, and at walking pace it won't be hard to read at all.


And then there is us who go long and slow, still suffer and can barely spot the watch itself. We still call that running  At this stage the information might be crucial, but with current implementation veeeery hard to glance at.


----------



## bruceames

True, everyone is different (although I go pretty darn slow myself, lol). They could make the popup more readable and I hope they do.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> I found that I was able to read it ok, but really I wouldn't use that feature much at all during a regular run, as I know the battery will last and will have a good idea what time it is. But during long moves like hikes and ultras it's especially useful, and at walking pace it won't be hard to read at all.


For hiking/walking I just have current time as one of the fields, maybe when you can have less than 5 I'd take it off in order to have bigger font with fewer fields, for running I'm usually ok knowing elapsed time.

For walking the dog I use walking mode with autolap set to 20 min intervals as the marker gives a sense of time I've been out and turnaround time if I'm just wandering on the trails and not doing a loop


----------



## borgelkranz

While desperately waiting for the next firmware update I made another comparison between the SSU and a friend's Ambit2R.
Overall, the track is ok. But our old friends are still there: corners are cut, lateral offset...


----------



## np31

borgelkranz said:


> While desperately waiting for the next firmware update I made another comparison between the SSU and a friend's Ambit2R.
> Overall, the track is ok. But our old friends are still there: corners are cut, lateral offset...


Well, it looks like waiting time is over

*25th January* - We are excited to bring you a GPS-focused update.
GLONASS is now available to use for activities in conjunction with GPS in BEST accuracy mode. This update also brings a new GPS firmware to improve general tracking accuracy. We will continue to monitor overall GPS performance as we know it is an important part of your experience.
As we move forward with Spartan development, we continue to adjust and prioritise cus-tomer feedback we've received. You will see some changes in the priority list below which reflects this feedback. In development means that the feature is currently being worked on and is a priority.


----------



## np31

double post. Please delete.


----------



## jhonzatko

Great news! Looking forward for the first experiences and comparisons!


----------



## BobMiles

Does anybody know the version number of the new firmware?


----------



## margusl

PTBC said:


> /../ https://www.sitepoint.com/javascript-embedded-systems-good-fit/


I guess only time will tell how SW platform choice plays out for Suunto. My guess is that this time they decided to take a route where they are free to switch HW platforms in future while keeping at least some parts of SW stack. I'm with EE background, but it's hard even for me not to notice how JavaScript-based solutions, especially node.js, are becoming more and more popular in almost every possible field, from any network service front-ends and back-ends to IoT devices, gadgets powered by single CR2032 battery and offline desktop applications. And there is a certain appeal to the idea of using (partly) the same toolset while developing server side, end user front end (Movescount), PC agent (SuuntoLink), mobile apps and (parts of) watch firmware.

Besides, Spartan has probably same amount of HW resources under the hood than most AndroidWear devices today, so saving few CPU cycles or few MiBs of RAM may not be something to spend months of development time. For comparison, linked article mentions Espruino, yes, it is targeted mostly to hobbysts, but it doesn't change the fact that their BTLE thingy is built around nRF52832 SoC - 64MHz Cortex M4, 64*kB* RAM, 512*kB* Flash - is powered by CR2032 battery and draws 4mA while CPU usage is 100% running javascript. And not all code needs to be interpreted, if something like Espruino can provide support for compiled js and inline assembler, I don't think it's something unknown for a team developing for premium gadgets.

I recently stumbled into full release notes of SU older firmware, from September. Includes technical notes, fixed bugs, known issues, links to internal Bugzilla. Maybe someone else finds it interesting as well: Levi Trail Running System: Suunto Spartan Ultra - 1.1.30 update + Full Release Notes

And regarding lack of updates from Suunto staff, take a look at this - https://www.facebook.com/Suunto/pos...0154219806432621&comment_tracking={"tn":"R6"} (if not logged in, just click Comments)
From Jan. 19:


> /../ We learned our lesson about posting release dates then failing on achieving them that is why we've decided to stop posting these information on the communication channels that we use. Instead we will release these updates when we feel that it is ready for production. In the meantime, we humbly ask for your patience and consideration. /../


----------



## Cassote

BobMiles said:


> Does anybody know the version number of the new firmware?


According to the info posted on Facebook by suunto 1.6.14


----------



## BobMiles

Cassote said:


> According to the info posted on Facebook by suunto 1.6.14


Thanks! For me, the GPS accuracy has improved quite a bit with 1.6.14. I did a run using my A3P as reference and the SSU performed better. It won't be the solution to all the problems though, but we'll see!


----------



## darkshait

Only a small GPS update after a month...I do not know what to think...


----------



## thyokel

BobMiles said:


> Thanks! For me, the GPS accuracy has improved quite a bit with 1.6.14. I did a run using my A3P as reference and the SSU performed better. It won't be the solution to all the problems though, but we'll see!


so nice that they remember what've promise. i like it, i enjoy it.


----------



## gousias

Anxious to read impressions from the latest fw update!


----------



## bruceames

darkshait said:


> Only a small GPS update after a month...I do not know what to think...


We'll see how small this GPS update is when user impressions starting coming in, especially those who have been having problems with GPS tracks. If this fixes that, then it's a huge update, as almost all the negativity regarding this watch has been focused on GPS reception (the other major area of concern was lack of customizable fields, but that was fixed in the previous update).


----------



## bruceames

Updated my watch, will compare with A3P later today. But since I'm already getting good SSU tracks compared with A3P, I don't know how much better it can be.


----------



## BobMiles

Here you go, just finished a run: MyGPSFiles
It's quite good, no big issues. The Road at start and finish is quite challenging as it has high buildings and balconies covering the sidewalk...


----------



## PTBC

np31 said:


> "We will continue to monitor overall GPS performance as we know it is an important part of your experience."


Marketing speak is becoming annoying...it's not an 'important part of your experience', it's the critical part of the central function of the bloody device

We are way past the hey look we are doing you a favour fixing this thing style that Suunto has adopted, as for 'excited to bring you a GPS-focused update' how about we are relieved to have finally done something to improve GPS and are sorry it happened in the first place and sorry it's taken so long instead

Edit-left charge/sync cable at home so will have to wait to update, you think for the price they could have thrown a spare cable in the box, especially as they are custom so can't exactly pick one up or use a cable from something else


----------



## bruceames

Well to be fair all companies use "marketing speak". Not just Suunto. The GPS function is just as critical to me too, and so far I've gotten good tracks in the short time I've had it. Hopefully the update goes a long way in improving the bad tracks many are having.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

I've had the Spartan for a long time, the GPS fix not that long, and got good results from its GPS (pretty much all the time). Case of "Go, figure"...

Will probably do an update re. this fw update on my blog/Youtube and wait for feedback also there


----------



## bruceames

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I've had the Spartan for a long time, the GPS fix not that long, and got good results from its GPS (pretty much all the time). Case of "Go, figure"...
> 
> Will probably do an update re. this fw update on my blog/Youtube and wait for feedback also there


Did you get better GPS results with this latest fix, than you did before the update?


----------



## Cyberbob13

With my second SSU I have always had good GPS tracks. With the new update I have the impression that corner cutting almost vanished. Curves look very smooth now. However I have to admit that conditions were not challenging today.


----------



## PTBC

PTBC said:


> Anyone think there's much chance of an update this week, tomorrow is the last Wednesday in January (most of the updates have been mid-week) and it's been over a month since the last update.
> 
> The lack of communication is frustrating


Lucky guess on the update being released!


----------



## bruceames

Went on a short trail run. Was planning to go further but the mud was ridiculous, so the tracks show a bit of puddle dodging. Don't know if the update helped, as it was the first run in trails with some tree cover. However once again both tracks look equally good, even in the few areas with heavy tree cover.

SSU

A3P


----------



## LONG_HAUL

dosenfisch said:


> Suunto is using the LPM013M091A Display from JDI. It can act as a "normal" 30Hz or 60Hz Screen with 18bit color depth (262K colors) but also has a power saving mode, which stores the individual color per pixel within its own memory and don't need a regular refresh from the system. This way, it needs way less power. On the downside, it can only use 8 colors this mode (black, white, cyan, magenta, yellow, red, green and blue). For example, the purple and the pink watch faces share the same color (magenta) in power saving mode.


Hi, would you mind mentioning where you found out that is the JDI display model the Spartan uses?


----------



## user_none

LONG_HAUL said:


> Hi, would you mind mentioning where you found out that is the JDI display model the Spartan uses?


Here's some references.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/SuuntoAmbit/permalink/1055592531199476/


----------



## bruceames

.....


----------



## Simurgh

Can't find how to hard reset the watch and erase all the data. I am sure it was mentioned here, but can't find it.

Anyone minds to help. Thanks a million!


----------



## bruceames

Simurgh said:


> Can't find how to hard reset the watch and erase all the data. I am sure it was mentioned here, but can't find it.
> 
> Anyone minds to help. Thanks a million!


Press and hold down all 3 buttons for 15 seconds.


----------



## Simurgh

bruceames said:


> Press and hold down all 3 buttons for 15 seconds.


The watch restarts itself but all the data is still there.

Is there anything like factory/hard reset where the watch will be set as the first time when turned on and all data gone?


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Simurgh said:


> The watch restarts itself but all the data is still there.
> 
> Is there anything like factory/hard reset where the watch will be set as the first time when turned on and all data gone?


In Suuntolink go into settings>watches>force software update. However you probably need to disconnect from Movescount first otherwise it will update settings again


----------



## Hecke

The factory reset:
Go to Movescount website
-> my watches
-> choose watch
next to the watch you see two fields 'Restore default values' and 'Remove device'
the first one is yours ;-)


----------



## PTBC

5Krunner site has a comparison of a run with a Sport & an Ultra both updated to new firmware, as on previous tests he had poorer performance from the Ultra than the Sport, maybe there's still some issues to iron out or faulty units out there, hopefully now there's a GPS update Suunto will start looking at poor performing units and start taking warranty returns as it seems the response (if you even get one) from the service desk so far has been to wait for the GPS fix.


----------



## racingclub

PTBC said:


> 5Krunner site has a comparison of a run with a Sport & an Ultra both updated to new firmware, as on previous tests he had poorer performance from the Ultra than the Sport, maybe there's still some issues to iron out or faulty units out there, hopefully now there's a GPS update Suunto will start looking at poor performing units and start taking warranty returns as it seems the response (if you even get one) from the service desk so far has been to wait for the GPS fix.


Wonder if there's a potential difference between the steel & titanium bezel'd Ultra's? Just thinking in terms of bezel antenna performance.


----------



## Egika

racingclub said:


> Wonder if there's a potential difference between the steel & titanium bezel'd Ultra's? Just thinking in terms of bezel antenna performance.


Highly unlikely. Both metals will shield the satellite RF in the same way.


----------



## PTBC

racingclub said:


> Wonder if there's a potential difference between the steel & titanium bezel'd Ultra's? Just thinking in terms of bezel antenna performance.


More likely an issue with the one unit as he's reported it before when doing test runs with both, hopefully he will raise it with Suunto, will be interesting to see what their action is in terms of replacement of the poorer performing unit or hang on for further fixes.


----------



## martowl

Was perusing the Garmin site just to see how the predicted battery life on the new Fenix5 would compare to the SSU. Surprised at this:
5X :Up to 12 days in smartwatch mode (depending on settings), up to 20 hours in GPS mode, and up to 50 hours in UltraTrac battery saver mode
5: Up to 2 weeks in smartwatch mode (depending on settings), up to 24 hours in GPS mode, and up to 75 hours in UltraTrac battery saver mode

These appear to have been changed when I first checked as the 5X was rated identically to the 5. Pretty disappointing as in my experience one has to limit functionality to achieve the stated maximum battery life. For my A3P that means no autolap/no tones/no backlight/no interval timers and limited manual laps. That has worked well for me and I get close to the max battery life. The 5s GPS fix on the A3P is decidedly worse than the 1s fix so there is a significant trade off.

So far with limited testing at 1s fix on the SSU my GPS is indistinguishable from the A3P (I know I am lucky and I live where GPS is not that challenging) and the 1s powersave fix on the SSU looks very similar to the continuous 1s fix. If I can eek out 25h on the SSU with a decent GPS track that will be great and beat out both of the new Fenix models.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> Was perusing the Garmin site just to see how the predicted battery life on the new Fenix5 would compare to the SSU. Surprised at this:
> 5X :Up to 12 days in smartwatch mode (depending on settings), up to 20 hours in GPS mode, and up to 50 hours in UltraTrac battery saver mode
> 5: Up to 2 weeks in smartwatch mode (depending on settings), up to 24 hours in GPS mode, and up to 75 hours in UltraTrac battery saver mode
> 
> These appear to have been changed when I first checked as the 5X was rated identically to the 5. Pretty disappointing as in my experience one has to limit functionality to achieve the stated maximum battery life. For my A3P that means no autolap/no tones/no backlight/no interval timers and limited manual laps. That has worked well for me and I get close to the max battery life. The 5s GPS fix on the A3P is decidedly worse than the 1s fix so there is a significant trade off.
> 
> So far with limited testing at 1s fix on the SSU my GPS is indistinguishable from the A3P (I know I am lucky and I live where GPS is not that challenging) and the 1s powersave fix on the SSU looks very similar to the continuous 1s fix. If I can eek out 25h on the SSU with a decent GPS track that will be great and beat out both of the new Fenix models.


I'll have test out the 1s powersave fix myself. 25 hours is a lot better than 16. Also curious as to how much juice Glonass is using on it's own.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> I'll have test out the 1s powersave fix myself. 25 hours is a lot better than 16. Also curious as to how much juice Glonass is using on it's own.


Charged last Thursday and since then I'm down to 35% with day to day usage and 3 hours of GPS at best with Glosnass enabled (also using HR sensor), does seem worse battery life than before upgrade. Low level backlight has also been enabled on for 2 of the 5 days, but I had that on all the time before the update.


----------



## bruceames

PTBC said:


> Charged last Thursday and since then I'm down to 35% with day to day usage and 3 hours of GPS at best with Glosnass enabled (also using HR sensor), does seem worse battery life than before upgrade. Low level backlight has also been enabled on for 2 of the 5 days, but I had that on all the time before the update.


I have the backlight set to on. Is that a global setting? It only seems to work when in time mode and not in sports mode.


----------



## Jaka83

bruceames said:


> I have the backlight set to on. Is that a global setting? It only seems to work when in time mode and not in sports mode.


Backlight (Standby) is on during sports mode as well. Just tested it and the brightness level stays the same during watch mode and sports mode if you have the Standby option set to On.


----------



## Cassote

Jaka83 said:


> Backlight (Standby) is on during sports mode as well. Just tested it and the brightness level stays the same during watch mode and sports mode if you have the Standby option set to On.


From the test I've making , standby option equals to 5% backlight in therms of intensity


----------



## bruceames

Jaka83 said:


> Backlight (Standby) is on during sports mode as well. Just tested it and the brightness level stays the same during watch mode and sports mode if you have the Standby option set to On.


Huh weird. I'll have to check it again. Did a run in low light (almost dark) conditions and I could not see any backlight coming from the watch and had to shine my headlamp on it or push a button, to see the fields


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> Huh weird. I'll have to check it again. Did a run in low light (almost dark) conditions and I could not see any backlight coming from the watch and had to shine my headlamp on it or push a button, to see the fields


Then your standby is not on, mine worked great running in the dark and very clear to see.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> Huh weird. I'll have to check it again. Did a run in low light (almost dark) conditions and I could not see any backlight coming from the watch and had to shine my headlamp on it or push a button, to see the fields


It was on regardless of mode before the update and also after the update, though the update did turn it off and I had to re-enable it


----------



## bruceames

PTBC said:


> It was on regardless of mode before the update and also after the update, though the update did turn it off and I had to re-enable it


I know the update disabled it and already re-enabled it before that run. I'll check again to make sure though. I coulda swore the backlight worked fine in watch mode after the run. Maybe the backlight doesn't kick in, in low light but rather when it hits certain darkness level? Is the backlight always on, or only when it senses that it's dark enough?


----------



## Jaka83

Cassote said:


> From the test I've making , standby option equals to 5% backlight in therms of intensity


The thing in question was if the Standby is on during exercise, not what's the difference between the bakcklight toggle/automatic brightness level and the standby level.

For me, the standby option has the backlight always on during all activities and the standard watch mode, the only time the backlight turns off is when I leave the watch on a desk and don't touch it for a longer period.

If I have the backlight set to Automatic and also have the Standby option on, then the backlight is at it's lowest setting and when I press any of the buttons, the backlight goes to the brightness setting I have it set to, then after not touching it for a while it returns to the Standby value.
The same logic applies if you have Standby turned off, the only difference is, that the backlight is turned off while not pressing the buttons.

I have my backlight set on Toggle and Standby On, this way I can clearly see the screen in bright sunlight and even in dimmer conditions or at night. I just love the screen.


----------



## bruceames

I saw the backlight this time. Bumped it from 75% to max and this time it was a little darker towards the end so it made it more obvious. Very cool feature. 

I had the backlight set to automatic, BTW. I'll try next time in toggle.


----------



## d2i23

martowl said:


> Was perusing the Garmin site just to see how the predicted battery life on the new Fenix5 would compare to the SSU. Surprised at this:
> 5X :Up to 12 days in smartwatch mode (depending on settings), up to 20 hours in GPS mode, and up to 50 hours in UltraTrac battery saver mode
> 5: Up to 2 weeks in smartwatch mode (depending on settings), up to 24 hours in GPS mode, and up to 75 hours in UltraTrac battery saver mode
> 
> These appear to have been changed when I first checked as the 5X was rated identically to the 5. Pretty disappointing as in my experience one has to limit functionality to achieve the stated maximum battery life. For my A3P that means no autolap/no tones/no backlight/no interval timers and limited manual laps. That has worked well for me and I get close to the max battery life. The 5s GPS fix on the A3P is decidedly worse than the 1s fix so there is a significant trade off.
> 
> So far with limited testing at 1s fix on the SSU my GPS is indistinguishable from the A3P (I know I am lucky and I live where GPS is not that challenging) and the 1s powersave fix on the SSU looks very similar to the continuous 1s fix. If I can eek out 25h on the SSU with a decent GPS track that will be great and beat out both of the new Fenix models.


When it was first announced the battery life was different for 5 and 5x, but the same fot 5 and 5s.


----------



## ws1972

Hi, I'm a fresh SSU user, just received the SSU Stealth tt last week to replace my Ambit 2 after 4 years of use. Running average 5 times a week.

First test for me with the SSU: Run 2hrs/23K
Settings : 
-autolap 1K on
-Glonass on
-gps best selected
-messages off
-display automatic
-brightness 50%
-autopause off
-stand by off

During this run with a temperature average of 6 degrees Celcius the battery went from 100% to 82%, about double compared to the Ambit 2. Saying that I think it's not a fair comparison as both watches are totally different with respect to their screens.
GPS tracks shown compared to my previous runs using my Ambit 2 are similar, do not see much difference, think Ambit little better "spot on"


----------



## PTBC

ws1972 said:


> Hi, I'm a fresh SSU user, just received the SSU Stealth tt last week to replace my Ambit 2 after 4 years of use. Running average 5 times a week.
> 
> First test for me with the SSU: Run 2hrs/23K
> Settings :
> -autolap 1K on
> -Glonass on
> -gps best selected
> -messages off
> -display automatic
> -brightness 50%
> -autopause off
> -stand by off
> 
> During this run with a temperature average of 6 degrees Celcius the battery went from 100% to 82%, about double compared to the Ambit 2. Saying that I think it's not a fair comparison as both watches are totally different with respect to their screens.
> GPS tracks shown compared to my previous runs using my Ambit 2 are similar, do not see much difference, think Ambit little better "spot on"


Maybe I should save this for a Fridya afternoon, not to start a conspiracy theory, but there does seem to be a trend of people recently receiving watches having good performance overall......


----------



## ws1972

PTBC said:


> Maybe I should save this for a Fridya afternoon, not to start a conspiracy theory, but there does seem to be a trend of people recently receiving watches having good performance overall......


Can only tell you I've bought the watch online with a good discount so not sure how old it it was, or "first batch or what so ever"
Is there a way to check serial numbers for release dates?


----------



## ws1972

It came with software version 1.1.24 out of the box by the way.

What I did find was the colours are much more pale than the shown on the internet pics. Yellow is almost brouwn ich...


----------



## racingclub

can you still tell from the first four digits of the serial? My SSU starts 1638, which I'm guessing is Week 38 - late September


----------



## ws1972

racingclub said:


> can you still tell from the first four digits of the serial? My SSU starts 1638, which I'm guessing is Week 38 - late September


mine 4 digits are : 1637


----------



## martowl

ws1972 said:


> mine 4 digits are : 1637


mine: 1638


----------



## martowl

ws1972 said:


> It came with software version 1.1.24 out of the box by the way.
> 
> What I did find was the colours are much more pale than the shown on the internet pics. Yellow is almost brouwn ich...


The colors in direct, bright sunlight are actually much closer to the photos. I find indoor and backlight are the worst for the colors..... seems odd


----------



## user_none

1639 for mine.


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> mine: 1638


mine is 1629

Is it a guess that it's year/week to start the number, though it has a certain logic to it.
Based on that mine would be Early-Mid July which would make sense for a preorder placed in early August


----------



## d2i23

1624... do you think that they changed something between week 24 and 39? I kinda doubt it.


----------



## Unperson

Mine's 1631 and mine has been mostly fine from the start, I doubt there have been any hardware changes. Though there is a definite improvement in the way the watch now handles GPS data, tracks are now more refined. 

I rarely saw those strange offset problems. If you're investigating why some people get bad tracks on a regular basis I would think analysing the SGEE data is helpful. My SGEE sync for today was done at around 4 am, this gets pushed to the watch automatically from my phone. If there is a problem with phonesyncing, or SGEE data is old for other reasons maybe that is what the offsets come from.

So for those who want to investigate this: make a note of the SGEE date before you start a move.


----------



## Lakerveldt

Well, the YYWW theory seems to be quite reasonable. I've got a bunch of sensors and an Ambit 2S. The first two numbers in the serial number comply with the year of purchase. I expect that these intems were produced in the same year. My SSU is 1632 and had reasonable Ok GPS performance prior to the 1.6.14 FW update. After the update, with Glonass activated, I consider it being good GPS performance.

So, possibly we're able to trace issues related to a production batch. For that only the people with poor performance should reply the first 4 digits in the serial number and a comment "poor GPS performance after 1.6.14"


----------



## d2i23

Unperson said:


> Mine's 1631 and mine has been mostly fine from the start, I doubt there have been any hardware changes. Though there is a definite improvement in the way the watch now handles GPS data, tracks are now more refined.
> 
> I rarely saw those strange offset problems. If you're investigating why some people get bad tracks on a regular basis I would think analysing the SGEE data is helpful. My SGEE sync for today was done at around 4 am, this gets pushed to the watch automatically from my phone. If there is a problem with phonesyncing, or SGEE data is old for other reasons maybe that is what the offsets come from.
> 
> So for those who want to investigate this: make a note of the SGEE date before you start a move.


Exactly. I only get "drunk" or offset track when I have old SGEE data. The problem for me is that my SGEE data gets synced only once every 24hrs. The only way to re-sync SGEE, at least for me, is to hard reset the watch. If i restart the phone ar only the app SGEE doesn't get updated unless it's older than 24hrs. I have iphone 6s and don't have any other sync problems.


----------



## bruceames

Mine is 1638


----------



## bruceames

Yesterday's trail run, much of it tree-covered. A3P and SSU on same wrist. Tracks look virtually identical. SSU track is blue

MyGPSFiles


----------



## bruceames

According to Fellrnr, the SSU GPS has dramatically improved since the last update, from "worst ever to near the top" (his own words). Now it's well ahead of the F3

GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


----------



## bruceames

Jaka83 said:


> The thing in question was if the Standby is on during exercise, not what's the difference between the bakcklight toggle/automatic brightness level and the standby level.
> 
> For me, the standby option has the backlight always on during all activities and the standard watch mode, the only time the backlight turns off is when I leave the watch on a desk and don't touch it for a longer period.
> 
> If I have the backlight set to Automatic and also have the Standby option on, then the backlight is at it's lowest setting and when I press any of the buttons, the backlight goes to the brightness setting I have it set to, then after not touching it for a while it returns to the Standby value.
> The same logic applies if you have Standby turned off, the only difference is, that the backlight is turned off while not pressing the buttons.
> 
> I have my backlight set on Toggle and Standby On, this way I can clearly see the screen in bright sunlight and even in dimmer conditions or at night. I just love the screen.


Did yesterday's run with the backlight set to toggle and it makes a huge difference. Probably only need it for another month or so since it'll be daylight thereafter until next winter. Also pleased that toggle only affects battery when in use, not while it's off your wrist. Curious to see how much more readable the display is though in normal and higher brightness settings if I leave it that way. Indoors it does look more readable with it on.


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> According to Fellrnr, the SSU GPS has dramatically improved since the last update, from "worst ever to near the top" (his own words). Now it's well ahead of the F3
> 
> GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


I will be surprised if the F5 is any better than the F3, we'll see. Glad I purchased the SSU. NOW SUUNTO give us interval training, the graphs we need, full customization and route altitude in real time!


----------



## LONG_HAUL

bruceames said:


> According to Fellrnr, the SSU GPS has dramatically improved since the last update, from "worst ever to near the top" (his own words). Now it's well ahead of the F3
> 
> GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


Interesting. Wonder where the Apple Watch would fall on that plot (could be similar to iPhone 5s on the top?). If Spartan gets the BLE sensor confusions all sorted out and Suunto starts to allow workout data to be accessed locally (w/o internet/phone), then it could become a good watch choice for multi-sport training 2017 after all. Long way to go still though.


----------



## bruceames

LONG_HAUL said:


> Interesting. Wonder where the Apple Watch would fall on that plot (could be similar to iPhone 5s on the top?). If Spartan gets the BLE sensor confusions all sorted out and Suunto starts to allow workout data to be accessed locally (w/o internet/phone), then it could become a good watch choice for multi-sport training 2017 after all. Long way to go still though.


Would be interesting to know that too. My guess is that it would fall short because of its smaller size. I don't have the GPS version, but will probably upgrade when the G3 watch comes out (assuming it has worthwhile features over the G1, which for me the G2 didn't, as I don't care about the GPS on the Apple watch).


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> According to Fellrnr, the SSU GPS has dramatically improved since the last update, from "worst ever to near the top" (his own words). Now it's well ahead of the F3
> 
> GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


Wonder if he used the unit he already had with upgraded firmware or if as part of the testing for Suunto they sent him a test model?


----------



## bruceames

PTBC said:


> Wonder if he used the unit he already had with upgraded firmware or if as part of the testing for Suunto they sent him a test model?


It probably wouldn't matter since the watches should behave the same if they have the same firmware? But who knows.

According to his scoring system the GPS reception falls somewhere in the middle of the F3 and A3.

A3: 7.9
SSU: 7.1
F3: 6.2

I wonder if it'll be further improved down the road.


----------



## buenosbias

bruceames said:


> It probably wouldn't matter since the watches should behave the same if they have the same firmware? But who knows.
> 
> According to his scoring system the GPS reception falls somewhere in the middle of the F3 and A3.
> 
> A3: 7.9
> SSU: 7.1
> F3: 6.2
> 
> I wonder if it'll be further improved down the road.


That fits very well with my experience with those three watches.

Novelty on Strava: When you use a Suunto, the exact model is now shown again. So "Suunto Spartan Ultra" instead of just "Suunto". I guess we can take this as a sign that Suunto has regained its confidence in their own product.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> It probably wouldn't matter since the watches should behave the same if they have the same firmware? But who knows.
> 
> According to his scoring system the GPS reception falls somewhere in the middle of the F3 and A3.
> 
> A3: 7.9
> SSU: 7.1
> F3: 6.2
> 
> I wonder if it'll be further improved down the road.


As he was doing testing at Suunto's request it's possible they sent him a unit for the testing as then they could have it back for their own analysis and the test process would be more controlled (they could do additional testing with the same device, be sure that the watch was setup properly/configured, hadn't become damaged during testing, etc.). As he had previously seen poor performance the question of was it an improvement due purely to the firmware change or was there an issue with his unit previously (no production process is perfect after all) that another unit didn't suffer from so some of the improvement was firmware and some unit. Sport and Ultra shouldn't have different performance for GPS, but it has been reported.


----------



## martowl

buenosbias said:


> That fits very well with my experience with those three watches.
> 
> Novelty on Strava: When you use a Suunto, the exact model is now shown again. So "Suunto Spartan Ultra" instead of just "Suunto". I guess we can take this as a sign that Suunto has regained its confidence in their own product.


I seriously doubt Suunto cares about this or that they would deliberately not list the device model. I am very confident this is a Strava issue not a Suunto issue.


----------



## martowl

LONG_HAUL said:


> Interesting. Wonder where the Apple Watch would fall on that plot (could be similar to iPhone 5s on the top?). If Spartan gets the BLE sensor confusions all sorted out and Suunto starts to allow workout data to be accessed locally (w/o internet/phone), then it could become a good watch choice for multi-sport training 2017 after all. Long way to go still though.


I don't know where the AW2 falls but the iSmooth Run developer has stated that the iPhone 7 GPS is very noisy and apparently not as good as the iPhone 6 series GPS. Watch Ginger Runner's review it is hilarious and will convince you not to use the AW2 for running.


----------



## Matus69

So many people were complaining about GPS accuracy and now week after update there is nobody who can confirm that it has been solved? I am disappointed.
Report from Fellmr sounds good but I'd rather hear it from a standard user.

Yes - I am ready to purchase, I am waiting only for the confirmation that GPS is OK.

thank you


----------



## ws1972

Matus69 said:


> So many people were complaining about GPS accuracy and now week after update there is nobody who can confirm that it has been solved? I am disappointed.
> Report from Fellmr sounds good but I'd rather hear it from a standard user.
> 
> Yes - I am ready to purchase, I am waiting only for the confirmation that GPS is OK.
> 
> thank you


Can only say that I'm using the SSU since last update and it's GPS accuracy seems to be exactly the same to me as my Ambit 2 on my regular tracks : spot on. Did 5 runs with it sofar and no "offtracks" or what's so ever


----------



## Philip Onayeti

The GPS error handling has been improved with last update but in more challenging terrain it still does not compare to A3 or even A2. It is on par with Traverse. In my opinion it is a good training watch with good display of training information but not good outdoor watch. If your main pursuits are in the bush then stick with A2/3.

I can confirm the GPS is "OK"


----------



## buenosbias

martowl said:


> I seriously doubt Suunto cares about this or that they would deliberately not list the device model. I am very confident this is a Strava issue not a Suunto issue.


A Strava issue for sure, but it was done on request by Suunto. I positively know that for the removal of the model listing in late summer (I asked at Strava).


----------



## PabloAlarcon

deleted. sorry misread some info


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> I don't know where the AW2 falls but the iSmooth Run developer has stated that the iPhone 7 GPS is very noisy and apparently not as good as the iPhone 6 series GPS. Watch Ginger Runner's review it is hilarious and will convince you not to use the AW2 for running.


AW2 is great for all it does versus price. The display brightness and color are simply mesmerizing and it works straight out of the box - no need to wait months for stupid updates. Having music without the phone is awesome and justifies the investment. When AW3 is out, if you are a AW2 user you will be well prepared to take full advantage of it from day one.


----------



## bruceames

removed...


----------



## bruceames

LONG_HAUL said:


> AW2 is great for all it does versus price. The display brightness and color are simply mesmerizing and it works straight out of the box - no need to wait months for stupid updates. Having music without the phone is awesome and justifies the investment. When AW3 is out, if you are a AW2 user you will be well prepared to take full advantage of it from day one.


The AW2 is a 2nd gen watch, which generally get released more fine tuned than a ground breaking G1 watch like the SSU. I know you lost patience and sold you SSU, but IMO it has become a solid watch with the last 2 updates. Customizable fields and a good GPS. I have the Apple watch and it is a lot uglier than the SSU and the SSU has a more readable display too.

But you are right about what it does. They sell so many of the darn things that they can give you a little more bang for the buck. However it's a more general purpose smartwatch and does not compare with the SSU (or the Ambit series) for performance metrics. It's not a serious training watch.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

bruceames said:


> The AW2 is a 2nd gen watch, which generally get released more fine tuned than a ground breaking G1 watch like the SSU. I know you lost patience and sold you SSU, but IMO it has become a solid watch with the last 2 updates. Customizable fields and a good GPS. I have the Apple watch and it is a lot uglier than the SSU and the SSU has a more readable display too.
> 
> But you are right about what it does. They sell so many of the darn things that they can give you a little more bang for the buck. However it's a more general purpose smartwatch and does not compare with the SSU (or the Ambit series) for performance metrics. It's not a serious training watch.


No number of updates can turn the Spartan into a solid watch because that would require a total redo of the way the wireless sensors are managed. It also requires a massive shift by Suunto in the way it withholds our training data and doesn't work with third parties to get their files to be properly parsed (pool swim files are worth nothing outside of their own website). And then there is a large set of functions associated with creating workouts, loading them, executing them, and using the data fields displayed to stay on target during execution, all of which Suunto has not even touched with the Spartan. There is just so much work to do, by so many, and it is so late into the 2017 training cycle for serious athletes, that I think it is unlikely to be used for serious training by a significant number of people.

The AW2 is a work of art. It doesn't only fit my wrist, it fits my wrist whatever I'm doing, even sleeping. The difference between what you want the AW2 to do, and what it does out of the box is this: one well-written app. And there is plenty of that on their App Store.


----------



## Unperson

Ok, so you went from completely loving the SSU (when we all thought it was mediocre and needed lots of work) to hating the SSU after the first few updates (when the rest of us saw Suunto was making an effort) to completely loving the apple watch (while we are now quite happy with how the SSU is performing). Everyone may and should have their own preferences but you seem to suffer a bit from confirmation bias whenever you get something new. Not a problem at all but you should be mindful of it ;-)


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

PTBC said:


> Wonder if he used the unit he already had with upgraded firmware or if as part of the testing for Suunto they sent him a test model?


Reply from fellrnr: "Good point - the results are from my original watch with the latest firmware."


----------



## martowl

Matus69 said:


> So many people were complaining about GPS accuracy and now week after update there is nobody who can confirm that it has been solved? I am disappointed.
> Report from Fellmr sounds good but I'd rather hear it from a standard user.
> 
> Yes - I am ready to purchase, I am waiting only for the confirmation that GPS is OK.
> 
> thank you


i think if you read some of the posts you will find quite a few that have good gps tracks. Mine are as good as A3P for 6 mile to 60k runs, my longest with SSU so far. I am keeping mine.


----------



## bruceames

Am I losing it or is it that the Glonass toggle is gone? Can't find it on the watch or in the sports settings.


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> Am I losing it or is it that the Glonass toggle is gone? Can't find it on the watch or in the sports settings.


Bruce, you need to start an exercise I believe and it is in the options below the exercise. Once on, it will be on for all sports using GPS.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> Bruce, you need to start an exercise I believe and it is in the options below the exercise. Once on, it will be on for all sports using GPS.


Still not used to seeing options there. Pretty cool though.


----------



## Unperson

It's a bit of a strange place for this option indeed. It probably still needs work. You can only use Glonass in the 'best' GPS setting, which strikes me as odd but that may have something to do with the increased battery usage due to Glonass, which I'm sure wouldn't help battery longevity in 'good' or 'ok' gps modes.


----------



## Matus69

thanks for your responses. I have ordered today


----------



## Matus69

Watch has arrived (1628) and I tested it today. It's far from perfect but not bad. You can see the difference between iphone 6 in the trousers pocket and ssu on the wrist. (best gps setting and glonas on)
















Otherwise I like how the watch looks and the low weight. It reacts quickly. On the other side I expected more from the display - colors are not so bright as I would expect. 100 minutes run and 20% from the battery seems to be quite a lot.


----------



## Matus69

double post, sorry


----------



## Matus69

I just found the same route with friend of mine AP3. He uses also the best gps settings so I am satisfied with gps performance of SSU. I think I need to be realistic.


----------



## bruceames

Thanks for sharing. Glad you're satisfied with the GPS. Hope it gets better over time, but the quality has come a long way so far.

There is still a GPS offset bug (with Glonass on) that affects some moves in more challenging areas, but that hopefully will be fixed in the next update. But they are aware of it and they said it will be fixed.


----------



## ws1972

Same here for the display : backlight ther colors are faded but must say in daylight and sunlight these look ok


----------



## ws1972

Is there a way to switch the backlight off during an exercise? I'm planning for a long nightrun (5hrs) and wonder if I can switch it of to extend the battery life and not have the backlight full bright. I already reduced it to 20%


----------



## marcomueller

ws1972 said:


> Is there a way to switch the backlight off during an exercise? I'm planning for a long nightrun (5hrs) and wonder if I can switch it of to extend the battery life and not have the backlight full bright. I already reduced it to 20%


Yes you can do! options/generall/backlight/standby


----------



## ws1972

thanks but this won't work during an exercise, does it? I tested it but backlight seems to be always "on"


----------



## ws1972

Thought "stanb by" was a mode that a minimum backlight is always "on" to make it easier to read in lowlight?


----------



## martowl

ws1972 said:


> Thought "stanb by" was a mode that a minimum backlight is always "on" to make it easier to read in lowlight?


That is correct but a 5h night run should not tax the battery at all. I ran a 60k about a month ago and the first hour was very dark. I did not need to see the watch often so I simply two finger tapped the display to have the backlight turn on where it would turn off automatically. I had standby on and would have had about 14h of battery life with GPS set at best. For a relatively short 5h run you shouldn't even worry about the battery. Just charge before you go. You have an ultra or a sport?


----------



## ws1972

Thanks for reply, I was only thinking the display will be bright on during training in darkness all the time and effect the battery. But as you said it should be ok than using the toggle setting instead off auto, did not know this one was possible during an exercise. Thanks Martowl
I have an Ultra.


----------



## martowl

ws1972 said:


> Thanks for reply, I was only thinking the display will be bright on during training in darkness all the time and effect the battery. But as you said it should be ok than using the toggle setting instead off auto, did not know this one was possible during an exercise. Thanks Martowl
> I have an Ultra.


Here is the section from the manual

3.5 Backlight
The backlight has two modes: automatic and toggle. In automaticmode, the backlight comes on with any screen touch or buttonpress.
In toggle mode, you turn the backlight on with a two-finger tap.The backlight stays on until you tap with two fingers again.
By default, the backlight is in automatic mode. You can change thebacklight mode as well as the backlight brightness from the settingsunder General » Backlight.


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> Here is the section from the manual
> 
> 3.5 Backlight
> The backlight has two modes: automatic and toggle. In automaticmode, the backlight comes on with any screen touch or buttonpress.
> In toggle mode, you turn the backlight on with a two-finger tap.The backlight stays on until you tap with two fingers again.
> By default, the backlight is in automatic mode. You can change thebacklight mode as well as the backlight brightness from the settingsunder General » Backlight.


something I've noticed is that when watch is in general quiet mode where screen touch is locked to avoid accidental actions that it needs to be woken up before two finger toggle tap works and notifications don't 'wake' the touch screen or increase the brightness and pushing the button to wake it dismisses the notification. Generally though the entire notifications side is very basic and just about allows them to tick the marketing box


----------



## Philip Onayeti

PTBC said:


> Generally though the entire notifications side is very basic and just about allows them to tick the marketing box


Funny you say that as the ability to scroll through the entire notification is probably the only practical improvement I find the Spartan has over the A3.


----------



## ws1972

Philip Onayeti said:


> Funny you say that as the ability to scroll through the entire notification is probably the only practical improvement I find the Spartan has over the A3.


I think the whole notification is an practical improvement... well I doubt....I 've got the notifications "off" because I'm not interested in it hile I'm running and as I'm coming from the Ambit 2 I'm new to Autosink what I find useless sofar as it simply won't sync with my iPhone. After several attempts typing new codes I gave up....


----------



## bruceames

I don't mind using the cable, especially after I got in the habit of using the iphone to sync, forget to charge, and ran out of juice on a run (it could have been a race and yeah that would have been stupid to not check charge levels. But give myself a chance and I'll forget a lot of things like that). At least with a cable I know I'll always be covered on that end. It's really not more convenient at all to use the phone app...unless it does it automatically. But even then, it's more convenient to never have to worry about recharging, at least it is for me.


----------



## ws1972

Agree on that! During the years using my Ambit 2 the battery rarely dropped below the 70% because after every exercise you had connect the cable.
I'm not bothered with the cable neither.


----------



## user_none

Another fan of the cable. I find it to sync fast and reliably on the cable. After every move I sync with the cable, then it sits until the next move. If it has been more than a day or so, I'll sync to get the SGEE data updated and that's with either the Ambit3 or the SSU.


----------



## martowl

user_none said:


> Another fan of the cable. I find it to sync fast and reliably on the cable. After every move I sync with the cable, then it sits until the next move. If it has been more than a day or so, I'll sync to get the SGEE data updated and that's with either the Ambit3 or the SSU.


Odd man out here, my iPhone seems to have settled down and is working at least as well as the A3P for syncing my SSU. The last time I had my cable plugged into a computer was for the 1.6.14 update. I bought an extra charging cable on Amazon (it was cheap) and have it in my car where I normally charge the SSU if below 25% on my way to work. I have set up several custom sport modes and imported routes on the computer or iPad then simply sync with the iPhone app. Seems to work well for me.


----------



## peter_and

Completely new with Suunto watches. I hope someone can help me:
When I add a new sport mode I can´t find a data field which gives me auto lap pace, auto lap distance, aulolap pulse etc. 
If I use the data field:"lap distance" it only changes laps when I press the manual lap button, not when I reach a new auto lap (does it make sense...?).
I know I can see the data in the lap tabel, but I would like to see it as a normal data field.
Polar V800 have those auto lap datafields, but not Suunto??


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> Odd man out here, my iPhone seems to have settled down and is working at least as well as the A3P for syncing my SSU. The last time I had my cable plugged into a computer was for the 1.6.14 update. I bought an extra charging cable on Amazon (it was cheap) and have it in my car where I normally charge the SSU if below 25% on my way to work. I have set up several custom sport modes and imported routes on the computer or iPad then simply sync with the iPhone app. Seems to work well for me.


I've had pretty good connectivity with iphone, apart from one firmware version early on, though it can be slow at times it works pretty much every time for me. I find it has very good range for bluetooth as well.


----------



## zvojan

peter_and said:


> Completely new with Suunto watches. I hope someone can help me:
> When I add a new sport mode I can´t find a data field which gives me auto lap pace, auto lap distance, aulolap pulse etc.
> If I use the data field:"lap distance" it only changes laps when I press the manual lap button, not when I reach a new auto lap (does it make sense...?).
> I know I can see the data in the lap tabel, but I would like to see it as a normal data field.
> Polar V800 have those auto lap datafields, but not Suunto??


There is a bug. Watch shows average pulse instead of average lap pulse. Same thing with pace. Watch shows average pace instead of average lap pace. works ok with manual lap, but not with autolap.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

More competition for Suunto, Garmin, Apple and Polar: now Strava and Runkeeper apps use internal GPS tracking on Android Wear 2.0 watches. Fenix 5 better make the cut. SSU better come back to life from the ashes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## user_none

LONG_HAUL said:


> More competition for Suunto, Garmin, Apple and Polar: now Strava and Runkeeper apps use internal GPS tracking on Android Wear 2.0 watches. Fenix 5 better make the cut. SSU better come back to life from the ashes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


More competition is great. For lots of casual, and semi-serious runners, I bet the Apple and Android watches are more than sufficient. Personally, I'm not into the do everything under the sun kinda thing for my running/adventuring watch, but that's just me.


----------



## bruceames

I don't think the higher end Suunto, Garmin or Polar watch models have to worry about competition from general purpose smartwatches or fitbits. Those consumers would never pay $500 for a sports watch anyway. Suunto's main competition is Garmin and Polar, and hopefully the SSU will recover from this premature launch.


----------



## kris92

bruceames said:


> According to Fellrnr, the SSU GPS has dramatically improved since the last update, from "worst ever to near the top" (his own words). Now it's well ahead of the F3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a quite different experience. Since the latest update, GPS tracks are now ok, with glonass on. But cumulated D+ is now maxed at 15m. I had the same problem with settings set to altimeter or auto. Of course, I got ´´´´´´normal'´´´´´´ values before this update.
> 
> So if you read this forum and if you are thinking about buying this piece of sh.t, Ambit 3 is a far better option. Or look to other brands.
> Go away from this watch ! It seems she is giving time quite accurately... But not for a long time since battery live is so short...
Click to expand...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

user_none said:


> More competition is great. For lots of casual, and semi-serious runners, I bet the Apple and Android watches are more than sufficient. Personally, I'm not into the do everything under the sun kinda thing for my running/adventuring watch, but that's just me.


I think it is understandable that the Apple Watch carries the stigma of "casual runner" watch. That's because of its beginnings (dependent on the phone, not water proof, sluggish, etc...). Looking into the future, I think it is inevitable that it will eventually supersede any such "purpose-built" GPS sport watch brands/models. The AW2 just combines way more functions in totally different helms. For example, paying for stuff with Apple Pay is just awesome. Just is so particularly for the price point. They are just letting the market soak up some of the first generation units and seeing if they can indeed create a customer base. IMHO. It is light. It is ergonomic. It is well engineered. It works as advertised out of the box. It is versatile. Any watch that combines all of those qualities is a good offer.


----------



## Egika

Now which current smartwatch has a battery life of 1-2 weeks minimum?


----------



## Jaka83

LONG_HAUL said:


> I think it is understandable that the Apple Watch carries the stigma of "casual runner" watch. That's because of its beginnings (dependent on the phone, not water proof, sluggish, etc...). Looking into the future, I think it is inevitable that it will eventually supersede any such "purpose-built" GPS sport watch brands/models. The AW2 just combines way more functions in totally different helms. For example, paying for stuff with Apple Pay is just awesome. Just is so particularly for the price point. They are just letting the market soak up some of the first generation units and seeing if they can indeed create a customer base. IMHO. It is light. It is ergonomic. It is well engineered. It works as advertised out of the box. It is versatile. Any watch that combines all of those qualities is a good offer.


But can it run Crysis? Seriously tho ... general purpose watches will never be as good as purpose built watches. If you prefer and are happy with the AW2 and it's functions, good for you. I just don't understand why you have to be so eager to tell everyone in the Suunto forum you are the happiest guy on the planet owning an AW2. To each their own.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Just had a look at the Samsung Gear S3 and the forthcoming Casio Pro Trek Smart at the ISPO. (Post on the blog, videos there / on youtube). Love the displays and range of functions, find it easier to understand people who complain about the Spartan screen now.

And at the same time, the Spartan is still a Suunto, made/meant to work pretty much anywhere for a loooong time of GPS use. So, different screen.

Same with battery. People will complain when they have to charge the Spartan every few days. How often do you (have to) charge a smartwatch like an Apple Watch or the above-mentioned? Is it still pretty much every day? (Honestly don't know, but wouldn't be surprised if it were still much more often than the Spartan, and were considered just normal.)

Indeed, to each their own. And for different purposes, different gear.


----------



## Joakim Agren

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Just had a look at the Samsung Gear S3 and the forthcoming Casio Pro Trek Smart at the ISPO. (Post on the blog, videos there / on youtube). Love the displays and range of functions, find it easier to understand people who complain about the Spartan screen now.
> 
> And at the same time, the Spartan is still a Suunto, made/meant to work pretty much anywhere for a loooong time of GPS use. So, different screen.
> 
> Same with battery. People will complain when they have to charge the Spartan every few days. How often do you (have to) charge a smartwatch like an Apple Watch or the above-mentioned? Is it still pretty much every day? (Honestly don't know, but wouldn't be surprised if it were still much more often than the Spartan, and were considered just normal.)
> 
> Indeed, to each their own. And for different purposes, different gear.


The Pro Trek display comes with a second layer regular old time watch LCD display that is used just for a simple time keeping function. When that is used and the back lit LCD is turned off it gets better battery life ( I think around 2 weeks in watch mode like that). With that said though the back lit LCD is exactly that a LCD and as such will go dimmer and dimmer (even more so then the Amoled on the Samsung gear or Apple Watch 2) the brighter the sun light gets. So while looking pretty indoors it will not look so pretty outdoors on a sunny day, chances are that in the middle of the day in summer time you have to shadow the watch with your hand in order to read something of the display. This is completely opposite for the Spartan or the fenix 3 that both uses transflectitive Memory In Pixel (MIP) opaque LCD displays. These displays work just like E Ink displays or printed text in books and magazines for that matter. They go brighter and more clear the more light you expose to them. I love it how the display elements look almost like prints rather then electronic under bright light on my fenix 3 Sapphire, this in contrast to the regular LCD on my Ambit 2 Sapphire that look the sharpest under regular room light but goes more milky and foggy with less contrast the brighter sunlight gets. The downside to transflective displays is that they are dimmer and less vibrant in regular room light or other dim light conditions. But that can always be saved by using the back light. But there is nothing you can do to save a display going dim or milky (the way regular LCD, back lit LCD and AMOLED displays do) under bright light. So a transflective display is currently the ideal choice for an outdoor sports watch.:-!


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Just had a look at the Samsung Gear S3 and the forthcoming Casio Pro Trek Smart at the ISPO. (Post on the blog, videos there / on youtube). Love the displays and range of functions, find it easier to understand people who complain about the Spartan screen now.
> 
> And at the same time, the Spartan is still a Suunto, made/meant to work pretty much anywhere for a loooong time of GPS use. So, different screen.
> 
> Same with battery. People will complain when they have to charge the Spartan every few days. How often do you (have to) charge a smartwatch like an Apple Watch or the above-mentioned? Is it still pretty much every day? (Honestly don't know, but wouldn't be surprised if it were still much more often than the Spartan, and were considered just normal.)
> 
> Indeed, to each their own. And for different purposes, different gear.


Good questions Gerald. The recharge frequency topic is indeed interesting and some would argue even a bit dependent on other personal habits. The main notion I would like to dismiss is that a gadget only needs charging when the battery life prevents continuous use until the next charging opportunity. Mechanical and electronic equipment all have their own internal tolerances. An electronic gadget like a GPS watch has literally hundreds of components, each with their own voltage/current tolerances and best operational voltage/current ranges. You depend on your equipment so you probably know what I'm talking about. Having the watch at 20% battery, even if sufficient to get through the present workout/session, still seems to bring its own set of risks for "weird behavior". That seems to be particularly relevant in this age of "wireless everything". As a consequence, those who need to rely on equipment have learned to just keep their watches topped up. Even those with long battery lives. I recharge, every single night, everything I own and depend on during the day. I don't think about it or look at the battery gauges.

To answer your question, I do happen to know that a AW2 can easily go through two days without charge with a one hour run workout per day. That includes getting HR from an HR monitor strap (or from internal optical sensor, which BTW works very well), getting data from a BLE footpod, AND last but not least, playing my MP3 music straight to my great BLE headphones  Music during workouts straight from the watch is just awesome!!!


----------



## blizzz

I just hope Suunto will solve menus lag and this is not because transflective display.


----------



## Egika

LONG_HAUL said:


> [...]Mechanical and electronic equipment all have their own internal tolerances. An electronic gadget like a GPS watch has literally hundreds of components, each with their own voltage/current tolerances and best operational voltage/current ranges. You depend on your equipment so you probably know what I'm talking about. Having the watch at 20% battery, even if sufficient to get through the present workout/session, still seems to bring its own set of risks for "weird behavior".


Now that's quite a voodooish idea.
All proper gadgets should function normally until the battery is down to its low limit.
All internal components have an operating range that is below this fully discharged voltage.

I wonder where you got this superstition from...?


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Egika said:


> Now that's quite a voodooish idea.
> All proper gadgets should function normally until the battery is down to its low limit.
> All internal components have an operating range that is below this fully discharged voltage.
> 
> I wonder where you got this superstition from...?


From consistent use of all types of electronic equipment over several years. You can call it superstition, it doesn't offend me personally, but responses can change slightly even within nominal published operating ranges, particularly when put in a larger system that rely on response from other components. That's a pretty important aspect of research and development of new equipment, and shopping for parts. I have found GPS equipment to be particularly sensitive. But of course I can only speak within the set of equipment I have used, which is limited by budget.


----------



## Egika

No offence intended.
Just I never had any experience like this both as a user and a developer of electronics...


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Egika said:


> No offence intended.
> Just I never had any experience like this both as a user and a developer of electronics...


So you think every 10pF capacitor is created equal?


----------



## Egika

No, it just should be in its specified tolerances.
But for the same reason it could also be possible, that your equipment works less reliable when charged above 80%... Doesn't need to be lower voltage only. - I mean if you believe in this approach..


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Egika said:


> No, it just should be in its specified tolerances.
> But for the same reason it could also be possible, that your equipment works less reliable when charged above 80%... Doesn't need to be lower voltage only. - I mean if you believe in this approach..


Yes! Excellent point! And I have found that to also seem to hold. But if I notice behavior that takes away from normal use at any range I normally eventually return the equipment. And I will accept calling this voodooish, because I can't really argue the point with factual evidence. It is just a gut feeling I get after consistent use that I have learned to heed (or pay the price). But I will say it is not an original idea of mine. A while ago Someone posted here an indication of the actual JDI display model used in the SSU. Was that you?


----------



## Egika

No


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Egika said:


> No


Yeah, I thought that was odd. Have you seen any teardowns of Spartans anywhere?


----------



## martowl

LONG_HAUL said:


> To answer your question, I do happen to know that a AW2 can easily go through two days without charge with a one hour run workout per day. That includes getting HR from an HR monitor strap (or from internal optical sensor, which BTW works very well), getting data from a BLE footpod, AND last but not least, playing my MP3 music straight to my great BLE headphones  Music during workouts straight from the watch is just awesome!!!


Some of this is pure BS, my wife has an AW2, it requires charging every night and unless your workouts are less than 20 min there is no way you can get 2d on one charge. The stated max for the internal GPS without the iphone is maybe 4h-5h, that is way too short for many of us here on this forum. Then the watch is dead!!!! Oh and I forgot to mention, unless you use 3rd party apps the workout data cannot be transferred to any other service such as Training Peaks, Garmin, Golden Cheetah or Sportstrack. Oh, it doesn't do R-R and oh, it doesn't allow power and uh oh, unless you have the phone no maps or navigation at all.......So it is a watch for casual runners, swimmers, etc. I looked into it seriously because I would enjoy the iPhone integration, I see my wife use it every day. I thought I might be able to use it for weekday exercising but the trade offs are just too much. It will not be a serious exercise watch---ever. That is not Apple's intent.

Now can we go back to the forum topic, you are welcome to start another thread for the AW2, I did that for the Fenix5 as not to clutter up what most of us want to talk about here


----------



## martowl

blizzz said:


> I just hope Suunto will solve menus lag and this is not because transflective display.


I have quite a few exercises stored in my SSU now and I do not see much delay. The only delay is hitting the button when in low power mode on my wrist, that may take 1 sec or so. Otherwise, my screens are not delayed. I know some have seen this but I am not sure how to replicate it. One of the comments was to get a lot of exercises in the memory but that has not changed my responsiveness.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> Some of this is pure BS, my wife has an AW2, it requires charging every night and unless your workouts are less than 20 min there is no way you can get 2d on one charge. The stated max for the internal GPS without the iphone is maybe 4h-5h, that is way too short for many of us here on this forum. Then the watch is dead!!!! Oh and I forgot to mention, unless you use 3rd party apps the workout data cannot be transferred to any other service such as Training Peaks, Garmin, Golden Cheetah or Sportstrack. Oh, it doesn't do R-R and oh, it doesn't allow power and uh oh, unless you have the phone no maps or navigation at all.......So it is a watch for casual runners, swimmers, etc. I looked into it seriously because I would enjoy the iPhone integration, I see my wife use it every day. I thought I might be able to use it for weekday exercising but the trade offs are just too much. It will not be a serious exercise watch---ever. That is not Apple's intent.
> 
> Now can we go back to the forum topic, you are welcome to start another thread for the AW2, I did that for the Fenix5 as not to clutter up what most of us want to talk about here


Sure we can stay on topic sir. Just to point out a few facts: I do get more than two days of battery life on the use case I mentioned. I do get the FIT files out. And I never mentioned/claimed to get/use a GPS track. I said footpod, HR and music. Please don't call people bullshitters and then say we must now immediately change topics because that makes you sound like a coward.


----------



## Jaka83

LONG_HAUL said:


> Sure we can stay on topic sir. Just to point out a few facts: I do get more than two days of battery life on the use case I mentioned. I do get the FIT files out. And I never mentioned/claimed to get/use a GPS track. I said footpod, HR and music. Please don't call people bullshitters and then say we must now immediately change topics because that makes you sound like a coward.


Maybe you should get your "facts" straight. -> Apple Watch - Battery - Apple

Even Apple is stating *up to *18h battery life in normal watch use.


> All-day battery life is based on 18 hours with the following use: 90 time checks, 90 notifications, 45 minutes of app use, and a 30‐minute workout with music playback from Apple Watch via Bluetooth, over the course of 18 hours. Battery life varies by use, configuration, and many other factors; actual results will vary.


And if you take into account that official battery life for most of the products, especially Apple's, is exaggerated, then there's no way you get nowhere near the two day battery life with 2 hours of exercise in total that you claim you are reaching. I feel like it's the same old story you were telling with the razor sharp SSU GPS.
You just come to the forums and search for confirmation that makes you feel like you have something better than everyone else. :roll:


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Jaka83 said:


> Maybe you should get your "facts" straight. -> Apple Watch - Battery - Apple
> 
> Even Apple is stating *up to *18h battery life in normal watch use.
> 
> And if you take into account that official battery life for most of the products, especially Apple's, is exaggerated, then there's no way you get nowhere near the two day battery life with 2 hours of exercise in total that you claim you are reaching. I feel like it's the same old story you were telling with the razor sharp SSU GPS.
> You just come to the forums and search for confirmation that makes you feel like you have something better than everyone else. :roll:


Results vary as it is stated. I my case. I do keep a minimized set of apps installed, avoid complications that seem to take a toll on resources. I think that's a big factor. The display is another big variable since it can drain significantly the battery. But as I said, I normally charge it and the phone together overnight. Thanks.


----------



## blizzz

martowl said:


> I have quite a few exercises stored in my SSU now and I do not see much delay. The only delay is hitting the button when in low power mode on my wrist, that may take 1 sec or so. Otherwise, my screens are not delayed. I know some have seen this but I am not sure how to replicate it. One of the comments was to get a lot of exercises in the memory but that has not changed my responsiveness.


Interesting. Every video i checked about SSU i saw a menu lag. Or slow operation in menus when going in menu and back ...etc..

This as example ...is a watch with no lag when browsing menus:


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

That video looks familiar


----------



## Matus69

This is topic about SSU and not "I am searching for a sport watch"
I would be very happy if you can respect this.


----------



## blizzz

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> That video looks familiar


Yeah maybe i should ask for permission. But hey, it is internet 

I just wanted to show response of navigating in menus. Not interested in that watch anyway.  Suunto all the way .... ehhehehe


----------



## LONG_HAUL

blizzz said:


> Interesting. Every video i checked about SSU i saw a menu lag. Or slow operation in menus when going in menu and back ...etc..
> 
> This as example ...is a watch with no lag when browsing menus:


Yeah!!! That IS a known issue in the SSU, reported by many here, including myself, and sources more reputable than myself (like in the video  Nice find blizzz! Thanks for posting. And this is not subtle.


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> That video looks familiar


So Gerald, what others may see as lag in screen response appears to me to be the fact that one has to swipe all the way from one edge to the other. It does take the time required for the swipe for the screen to change. However, the screen scrolls much faster with the buttons, so this does not appear to be screen lag to me but more the implementation of the touch screen. Perhaps this makes it easier to use with gloves on. I have successfully swiped screens with gloves on although not as consistently as I would like.

What is your opinion?


----------



## blizzz

LONG_HAUL said:


> Yeah!!! That IS a known issue in the SSU, reported by many here, including myself, and sources more reputable than myself (like in the video  Nice find blizzz! Thanks for posting. And this is not subtle.


Yes, i know. According to Suunto feedback i got it is on their list of improvements.

Not sure when it will be implemented anyway.


----------



## ws1972

martowl said:


> That is correct but a 5h night run should not tax the battery at all. I ran a 60k about a month ago and the first hour was very dark. I did not need to see the watch often so I simply two finger tapped the display to have the backlight turn on where it would turn off automatically. I had standby on and would have had about 14h of battery life with GPS set at best. For a relatively short 5h run you shouldn't even worry about the battery. Just charge before you go. You have an ultra or a sport?


You were right indeed Martowl : just came back from a nightrun of 4 hours:
-glonass on
-gps best
-HR on
-backlight auto at 50% brightness
-used an installed route for navigation quite a lot
-temperature 0 Degrees Celcius

Battery went from 100% down to 74% which is good imo


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> So Gerald, what others may see as lag in screen response appears to me to be the fact that one has to swipe all the way from one edge to the other. It does take the time required for the swipe for the screen to change. However, the screen scrolls much faster with the buttons, so this does not appear to be screen lag to me but more the implementation of the touch screen. Perhaps this makes it easier to use with gloves on. I have successfully swiped screens with gloves on although not as consistently as I would like.
> 
> What is your opinion?


Curious to read about Gerald's insight on use of buttons. But that's not what you first said. There is a very noticeable lag when starting a new move after the log has a few moves stored. It can be easily verified, it is pretty evident, and has been reported by many here over a long period of time. And it has nothing to do with swiping versus use of buttons since it is seen when starting a move with a button. There is no denying that.


----------



## martowl

LONG_HAUL said:


> Curious to read about Gerald's insight on use of buttons. But that's not what you first said. There is a very noticeable lag when starting a new move after the log has a few moves stored. It can be easily verified, it is pretty evident, and has been reported by many here over a long period of time. And it has nothing to do with swiping versus use of buttons since it is seen when starting a move with a button. There is no denying that.


Welllll....I hope Gerald will answer, your experience is several firmware updates ago and I don't observe this whether or not you say there is no denying it. Sorry to disappoint you.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> Welllll....I hope Gerald will answer, your experience is several firmware updates ago and I don't observe this whether or not you say there is no denying it. Sorry to disappoint you.


No, the behavior is the same with the present firmware as it has been since August (back when you didn't own it). Just checked it by loading it up with bogus moves during the day. (Very small note: my AW2 battery level at the end of the day after a day of normal use: 75%).


----------



## BobMiles

martowl said:


> Welllll....I hope Gerald will answer, your experience is several firmware updates ago and I don't observe this whether or not you say there is no denying it. Sorry to disappoint you.


I think this is a well known problem and I experience it as well. If you don't, maybe you could share what type of and how many workouts your log contains? Mine has quite a lot of GPS tracks (mainly running and ski touring). The start exercise lag was there after maybe one or two runs. 
To me it seems like a bug, because why would stored workouts matter when starting a new exercise? To check if there's space on the device? To give it an unique ID? Even if, there are ways to do this in milliseconds, not 5 sec..


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

martowl said:


> So Gerald, what others may see as lag in screen response appears to me to be the fact that one has to swipe all the way from one edge to the other. It does take the time required for the swipe for the screen to change. However, the screen scrolls much faster with the buttons, so this does not appear to be screen lag to me but more the implementation of the touch screen. Perhaps this makes it easier to use with gloves on. I have successfully swiped screens with gloves on although not as consistently as I would like.
> 
> What is your opinion?


I think the problem is that there's both. From hitting start on an exercise to having the watch start the recording, there is maybe a second. The same second can be found until some displays are fully loaded. At the same time, there seem to be some complaints about the menu switching not being as fast as people want that I can't see. Gimme a sec to clean up, I think it's time for yet another quick video


----------



## LONG_HAUL

BobMiles said:


> To me it seems like a bug, because why would stored workouts matter when starting a new exercise? To check if there's space on the device? To give it an unique ID? Even if, there are ways to do this in milliseconds, not 5 sec..


You have a point. Buy it could be that you are being optimistic when you make the assumption that there is properly functioning low level services that provide basic functionality as expected. For example, if there is an underlying hardware issue communicating to flash memory, then it is not something Suunto can resolve programmatically (and their code will look like it indeed should only take milliseconds). One bad sign is that they haven't fixed it and the updates (intentionally?) will frequently wipe out all logged moves from their customer base (which BTW is totally unacceptable on a gadget designed for long term multi-sport training).


----------



## bruceames

The start lag for me is only a second or two, not a big deal. I haven't noticed any other lags. The swipes to switch screens works very well with no noticeable lag. I was a little skeptical about using it during a run but it does seem more user friendly now that I'm used to it.


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I think the problem is that there's both. From hitting start on an exercise to having the watch start the recording, there is maybe a second. The same second can be found until some displays are fully loaded. At the same time, there seem to be some complaints about the menu switching not being as fast as people want that I can't see. Gimme a sec to clean up, I think it's time for yet another quick video


I have another question for you. The lag I notice is the the time it may take for the Start icon to fill. I am curious, I have noticed the Start circle is not always filled and I am unclear why the icon fills with color on some occasions and not others. The lag prior to the exercise Start I have seen before, I will pay more attention to it. I only have 17h of training loaded at this time.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Video:






Can't show the exercise start now (that whole being a tester thing... don't think the touch software has changed though, so that's not it... and it certainly isn't that I don't want to show it because...); that is the one thing I do (as mentioned) think isn't entirely up to par... but then, I just used the Spartan in conjunction with a Traverse again. Oh boy, for running, the Traverse's autostart is really annoying by now, the second that the Spartan takes to start recording and show the display doesn't matter nearly as much to me, I won't be missing Kona by 40 seconds (referring to this explainer from Suunto re. Movescount)


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> I have another question for you. The lag I notice is the the time it may take for the Start icon to fill. I am curious, I have noticed the Start circle is not always filled and I am unclear why the icon fills with color on some occasions and not others. The lag prior to the exercise Start I have seen before, I will pay more attention to it. I only have 17h of training loaded at this time.


I thought the start circle fills when it finds a GPS signal and all the sensors (in my case the HR belt and the Stryd).


----------



## bruceames

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Oh boy, for running, the Traverse's autostart is really annoying by now, the second that the Spartan takes to start recording and show the display doesn't matter nearly as much to me, I won't be missing Kona by 40 seconds (referring to this explainer from Suunto re. Movescount)


That would annoy me too, and I read the reason they have it like that is because of trackback. But the SSU has it too, so is autostart really a necessary setting on the Traverse that can't be toggled off with a future update?

Another question: How does the Traverse GPS compare with the SSU now?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

bruceames said:


> That would annoy me too, and I read the reason they have it like that is because of trackback. But the SSU has it too, so is autostart really a necessary setting on the Traverse that can't be toggled off with a future update?
> 
> Another question: How does the Traverse GPS compare with the SSU now?


Never heard that idea of it being about the trackback, always thought it was just how they wanted to implement it because the Traverse isn't meant for athletics, anyways.

Not our current problem, anyways. Wanting to compare GPS tracks is exactly why I've started using those two now. (Plus, I never actually looked at the Traverse with newer firmware. On the blog, I mean.)


----------



## Jaka83

Made a video of how my SSU behaves in the menus just before starting my casual workout for today.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Arp-B1i7JLSzi_t8XjJkh2sIYeYPzw

The "lag" is there when entering and exiting the options menu and when starting and ending a workout (as seen in the video), but I don't find it that bad that I would not use the watch. Suunto will probably try to fix this, to make the watch look and feel nicer.

This is the move I made after I've done recording the video:
Jaka_Jese's 3:11 h Hiking Move


----------



## zvojan

.


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> I thought the start circle fills when it finds a GPS signal and all the sensors (in my case the HR belt and the Stryd).


Ok then why does it not fill without GPS when the only sensor is HR? maybe this is showing GPS is ready?


----------



## Jaka83

AFAIK at "START" screen the HR and GPS icons are outlined, when connected they show up as full icons ... the start circle fills up once all devices and GPS are found. You can still start the exercise if the Start circle is not full, but you'll probably have problems with GPS or some other device during the exercise. I usually let the watch sit at the start screen for a while, after I've set all my tracks and targets, before starting the exercise.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

"Better" video: 




Yes, the "Start" circle fills up when everything's ready, HR and GPS symbols fill up when HR belt / GPS have been found. We (testers) have suggested tweaks, and feedback from the public also seems to favor some changes to that. And I really wish Suunto let people in on more things, because it's quite fascinating just how much thought has to go into what seem like tiny details...


----------



## winky

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> "Better" video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the "Start" circle fills up when everything's ready, HR and GPS symbols fill up when HR belt / GPS have been found. We (testers) have suggested tweaks, and feedback from the public also seems to favor some changes to that. And I really wish Suunto let people in on more things, because it's quite fascinating just how much thought has to go into what seem like tiny details...


No one has seen anything and the ones that had are now somewhere in a shipping container heading to Pripiat. Don't worry.


----------



## winky

Jaka83 said:


> Made a video of how my SSU behaves in the menus just before starting my casual workout for today.
> 
> https://1drv.ms/v/s!Arp-B1i7JLSzi_t8XjJkh2sIYeYPzw
> 
> The "lag" is there when entering and exiting the options menu and when starting and ending a workout (as seen in the video), but I don't find it that bad that I would not use the watch. Suunto will probably try to fix this, to make the watch look and feel nicer.
> 
> This is the move I made after I've done recording the video:
> Jaka_Jese's 3:11 h Hiking Move


It is not so bad indeed


----------



## LONG_HAUL

winky said:


> It is not so bad indeed


It is slightly more annoying when starting a ride, and a bit of a pain in the pool where you do want a start-and-go kinda mechanics. This shouldn't be something users need to request/argue about/wait on.


----------



## Jaka83

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> "Better" video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the "Start" circle fills up when everything's ready, HR and GPS symbols fill up when HR belt / GPS have been found. We (testers) have suggested tweaks, and feedback from the public also seems to favor some changes to that. And I really wish Suunto let people in on more things, because it's quite fascinating just how much thought has to go into what seem like tiny details...


Do you have any info on the update regarding power+cadence being transmitted at the same time from one device/meter to the watch? Like the Stryd or some indoor trainers.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Jaka83 said:


> Do you have any info on the update regarding power+cadence being transmitted at the same time from one device/meter to the watch? Like the Stryd or some indoor trainers.


No, but that is an interesting question...


----------



## bruceames

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Never heard that idea of it being about the trackback, always thought it was just how they wanted to implement it because the Traverse isn't meant for athletics, anyways.


Now that I remember, the reason for autostart is to ensure trackback is enabled no matter what.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> Ok then why does it not fill without GPS when the only sensor is HR? maybe this is showing GPS is ready?


Mine fills up on moves without GPS (like a treadmill or Gym workout) when the only sensor is HR or HR+stryd (although I think it fills up whether or not Stryd is ready).


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

bruceames said:


> Now that I remember, the reason for autostart is to ensure trackback is enabled no matter what.


Oh, I think I see how it's meant. Yeah, you don't get the breadcrumb track all the way back to where you started if you don't start there.

So, autostart takes care of that. I've had that "issue" several times, that I'd check out something, not least the navigation screen, on the Ambit after having gone into exercise, then start moving... and realize some time later only that I haven't actually started the "move" (recording).

The Traverse avoids that issue by autostarting a move, the Spartan avoids it by having that dedicated start screen (which is also why the "I want to be able to see all my data fields before starting" is a bit of a potentially dangerous suggestion/complaint). The Ambit just relies on you to remember...


----------



## Jaka83

I've asked for the power+cadence feature through Suunto support twice and I've only gotten a generic response about my question being forwarded to the engineering department. It's funny, because this works on the A3 and it works on the A2 as well as A1 - but A1/2 have ANT+ and it's a different implementation.



bruceames said:


> Mine fills up on moves without GPS (like a treadmill or Gym workout) when the only sensor is HR or HR+stryd (although I think it fills up whether or not Stryd is ready).


It's the same on mine, the breadcrumbs screen shows during exercise no matter what (GPS on or off).


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> I've asked for the power+cadence feature through Suunto support twice and I've only gotten a generic response about my question being forwarded to the engineering department. It's funny, because this works on the A3 and it works on the A2 as well as A1 - but A1/2 have ANT+ and it's a different implementation.
> 
> It's the same on mine, the breadcrumbs screen shows during exercise no matter what (GPS on or off).


Power + Cadence/Pace does NOT work on the A3 with the Stryd but does work on A1 and A2 because of the BLE vs. Ant+ differences. The Stryd can only be recognized as a footpod or powerpod on A3 and SSU. I think everyone that has an A3 or SSU wants the full functionality and from my reading of the Stryd forums I think this is in development but I do not know for sure.


----------



## Cyberbob13

Irrespective of making use of the full functionality the Stryd Summit may offer, I regularly have the problem that measures from the Stryd are freezing on the SSU (pace when paired as a footpod - indoors, power when paired as a power pod - outdoors). The value shown on the SSU just freezes and the SSU does not recording the information from the Stryd anymore. Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## martowl

Cyberbob13 said:


> Irrespective of making use of the full functionality the Stryd Summit may offer, I regularly have the problem that measures from the Stryd are freezing on the SSU (pace when paired as a footpod - indoors, power when paired as a power pod - outdoors). The value shown on the SSU just freezes and the SSU does not recording the information from the Stryd anymore. Anyone else experiencing this?


Yes, it is a common problem and occurring on A3P as well. Stryd and Suunto are aware of this and working on it. Have you upgraded to Stryd 1.1.1? No dropouts or freezes with my last 2 runs SSU Stealth Titanium.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Jaka83 said:


> I've asked for the power+cadence feature through Suunto support twice and I've only gotten a generic response about my question being forwarded to the engineering department. It's funny, because this works on the A3 and it works on the A2 as well as A1 - but A1/2 have ANT+ and it's a different implementation.


This is a serious problem and it has not been fixed.


----------



## user_none

Jaka83 said:


> I've asked for the power+cadence feature through Suunto support twice and I've only gotten a generic response about my question being forwarded to the engineering department. It's funny, because this works on the A3 and it works on the A2 as well as A1 - but A1/2 have ANT+ and it's a different implementation.
> 
> It's the same on mine, the breadcrumbs screen shows during exercise no matter what (GPS on or off).


Wait, are you sure power + cadence with the Stryd Summit is working on the A3? It's my understanding cadence from the Summit comes from the foot pod side, and that won't happen when paired for power. Through reading at club.stryd.com, it was the Stryd Pioneer that Suunto put in a workaround for power to come through via the HR profile when paired to an A3.


----------



## martowl

LONG_HAUL said:


> This is a serious problem and it has not been fixed.


It is not a problem but an issue with BLE. I have no idea if the power can be passively collected as cadence, speed and distance are also collected nor do I know how much work it would be. It was possible for HR as the Stryd Pioneer passive transmits power along with HR. There is nothing to fix, we are asking for implementation of new functionality for a device that Suunto does not even produce. How can this be a "problem" when the device functions correctly and there is nothing wrong with it? (other than the dropout issue this is being worked on is acutually a functionality problem and does actually need fixing)


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> It is not a problem but an issue with BLE. I have no idea if the power can be passively collected as cadence, speed and distance are also collected nor do I know how much work it would be. It was possible for HR as the Stryd Pioneer passive transmits power along with HR. There is nothing to fix, we are asking for implementation of new functionality for a device that Suunto does not even produce. How can this be a "problem" when the device functions correctly and there is nothing wrong with it? (other than the dropout issue this is being worked on is acutually a functionality problem and does actually need fixing)


What you are experiencing is just one aspect of a serious issue as far as use of BLE for sensors in multi-sport. It happens also for cycling powermeters and if you have an ANT+ bridge you can study the problem further. There are certain instances in which pairing a sensor of one type, will forcibly kick others out of the pool (for recording data). I really wouldn't spend time on that now. It is a total mess (unless you only have one sensor).


----------



## martowl

LONG_HAUL said:


> What you are experiencing is just one aspect of a serious issue as far as use of BLE for sensors in multi-sport. It happens also for cycling powermeters and if you have an ANT+ bridge you can study the problem further. There are certain instances in which pairing a sensor of one type, will forcibly kick others out of the pool (for recording data). I really wouldn't spend time on that now. It is a total mess (unless you only have one sensor).


It is not kicking anything out, it is not a total mess, I have multiple sensors and I use multiple sensors at the same time and they are working. I know recent firmware updates help to fix some of the sensor problems that you and others reported earlier with power meters. DC Rainmaker states that BLE powermeters are the most difficult to standardize for BLE. He also states that Suunto does one of the best jobs attempting to get most of them working.

So your generalizations of it all being a mess are incorrect. I suspect the powermeters are more problematic and from what I stated before the issue with Stryd has IS NOT a problem but asking for a change in functionality. So for running I use multiple BLE sensors and have NO issues. Is that a problem or serious issue, I think not.


----------



## Jaka83

user_none said:


> Wait, are you sure power + cadence with the Stryd Summit is working on the A3? It's my understanding cadence from the Summit comes from the foot pod side, and that won't happen when paired for power. Through reading at club.stryd.com, it was the Stryd Pioneer that Suunto put in a workaround for power to come through via the HR profile when paired to an A3.


I don't own a Stryd to test, but I own an indoor trainer with ANT+/BLE power+cadence+speed sensor and with the A1/2 everything works, with the SSU only one parameter can be read because of the mentioned BLE limitation.

The way I see it from my testing is that if I pair my indoor trainer power+cadence+speed sensor as a BikePOD, I am getting cadence+speed. If I pair it as a PowerPOD I get only power. If I pair it as both - Power+BikePOD - then I sometimes get only power and other times cadence+speed, but never all three at the same time - this is due to the mentioned BLE limitation where only one simultaneous connection is permitted to the same sensor. If our BLE watches could be programmed in a way to query the sensor for all two/three parameters, then we would be golden.

ANT+ works differently and can handle multiple connections to the same sensor at the same time - hence it can query my indoor trainer's sensor for all three parameters (actually it only needs two - power and cadence, since it calculates speed based on cadence and the wheel circumference input in the watch settings).

I didn't know A3P has the same problem because I haven't tested it with my friend's watch (he does not do cycling and is constantly on the run ... pun intended ). I did however test it with the A1 and A2 and both work flawlessly, giving the signal that both the PowerPOD and the BikePOD have been found and are paired before the start of the exercise.

It's a BLE issue which can be worked around. It surprises me that nobody has mentioned this problem with the A3P yet and the watch has been around for ages. Does nobody use power based trainers or running training programs?
I was hoping to get some good power based interval training. (manual 5 min intervals created with auto lap in movescount settings)


----------



## user_none

LONG_HAUL said:


> What you are experiencing is just one aspect of a *serious issue* as far as use of BLE for sensors in multi-sport. It happens also for cycling powermeters and if you have an ANT+ bridge you can study the problem further. There are certain instances in which pairing a sensor of one type, will forcibly kick others out of the pool (for recording data). I really wouldn't spend time on that now. It is a total mess (unless you only have one sensor).


Dude, seriously. The drama needs to be left at the door. A *serious issue *is a flat tire on a car while being driven. A *serious issue* is a major malfunction on an airplane.

Repeat after me. "GPS watches, no matter how much I want them to be *"serious"* , are nothing more than toys for adults."


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> I don't own a Stryd to test, but I own an indoor trainer with ANT+/BLE power+cadence+speed sensor and with the A1/2 everything works, with the SSU only one parameter can be read because of the mentioned BLE limitation.
> 
> The way I see it from my testing is that if I pair my indoor trainer power+cadence+speed sensor as a BikePOD, I am getting cadence+speed. If I pair it as a PowerPOD I get only power. If I pair it as both - Power+BikePOD - then I sometimes get only power and other times cadence+speed, but never all three at the same time - this is due to the mentioned BLE limitation where only one simultaneous connection is permitted to the same sensor. If our BLE watches could be programmed in a way to query the sensor for all two/three parameters, then we would be golden.
> 
> ANT+ works differently and can handle multiple connections to the same sensor at the same time - hence it can query my indoor trainer's sensor for all three parameters (actually it only needs two - power and cadence, since it calculates speed based on cadence and the wheel circumference input in the watch settings).
> 
> I didn't know A3P has the same problem because I haven't tested it with my friend's watch (he does not do cycling and is constantly on the run ... pun intended ). I did however test it with the A1 and A2 and both work flawlessly, giving the signal that both the PowerPOD and the BikePOD have been found and are paired before the start of the exercise.
> 
> It's a BLE issue which can be worked around. It surprises me that nobody has mentioned this problem with the A3P yet and the watch has been around for ages. Does nobody use power based trainers or running training programs?
> I was hoping to get some good power based interval training. (manual 5 min intervals created with auto lap in movescount settings)


My powermeter on my bike is old enough that the data are transmitted via wires. But I realize this is an issue and I think if Suunto enables power to be transmitted with speed and cadence we would be set. I think it is the same problem for running where a footpod can be used either for power or for cadence/speed/distance. I cannot use both at the same time. I am able to use the HR/Power together and pair the Stryd Summit as a footpod. It seems to work ok, the problem is when one unit is trying to send power with everything else. I think this will get fixed as it sounds as if the problem is identical for running and biking. Since Suunto did enable power to be sent with HR I hope they can do the same for speed/cadence/distance.

BTW Garmin connect IQ has its own quirky limitations so both platforms have issues. My understanding for Garmin with the running power and Stryd connect IQ you are limited completely to the fields in the connect IQ app and cannot customize. Not an ideal situation. Many Garmin users are having issues as well on the Stryd forums.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

user_none said:


> Dude, seriously. The drama needs to be left at the door. A *serious issue *is a flat tire on a car while being driven. A *serious issue* is a major malfunction on an airplane.
> 
> Repeat after me. "GPS watches, no matter how much I want them to be *"serious"* , are nothing more than toys for adults."


I have the same experience as Jaka83 just posted. I just don't have any interest in writing all that down over and over again like he very nicely does. This has been discussed here many months ago. It is crippling to not be able to get all the data I need. I personally don't need this to be fixed anymore since I no longer use a Spartan. Thanks.


----------



## user_none

LONG_HAUL said:


> I have the same experience as Jaka83 just posted. I just don't have any interest in writing all that down over and over again like he very nicely does. This has been discussed here many months ago. It is crippling to not be able to get all the data I need. *I personally don't need this to be fixed anymore since I no longer use a Spartan. Thanks.*


Sooo, you like being the nagging wife? Nobody else will say it, but I will. The constant negativity comes across as that old, nagging wife that every guy loathes. Chill. We're a bunch of dudes, geeking out over something fun, and the nagging is super cringe worthy.

Again, chill.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> My powermeter on my bike is old enough that the data are transmitted via wires. But I realize this is an issue and I think if Suunto enables power to be transmitted with speed and cadence we would be set. I think it is the same problem for running where a footpod can be used either for power or for cadence/speed/distance. I cannot use both at the same time. I am able to use the HR/Power together and pair the Stryd Summit as a footpod. It seems to work ok, the problem is when one unit is trying to send power with everything else. I think this will get fixed as it sounds as if the problem is identical for running and biking. Since Suunto did enable power to be sent with HR I hope they can do the same for speed/cadence/distance.
> 
> BTW Garmin connect IQ has its own quirky limitations so both platforms have issues. My understanding for Garmin with the running power and Stryd connect IQ you are limited completely to the fields in the connect IQ app and cannot customize. Not an ideal situation. Many Garmin users are having issues as well on the Stryd forums.


You respond constructively to Jaka83 but is dismissive and defensive when replying to me, even when Jaka83 and I are pointing to the same issue. He got upset with me a while ago and put me in his ignore list (I think), and if you don't appreciate any of what I write, why don't you do the same?


----------



## martowl

LONG_HAUL said:


> You respond constructively to Jaka83 but is dismissive and defensive when replying to me, even when Jaka83 and I are pointing to the same issue. He got upset with me a while ago and put me in his ignore list (I think), and if you don't appreciate any of what I write, why don't you do the same?


Here is my first response to you, quite constructive and not dismissive but certainly I am not in agreement: "_It is not a problem but an issue with BLE. I have no idea if the power can be passively collected as cadence, speed and distance are also collected nor do I know how much work it would be. It was possible for HR as the Stryd Pioneer passive transmits power along with HR. There is nothing to fix, we are asking for implementation of new functionality for a device that Suunto does not even produce. How can this be a "problem" when the device functions correctly and there is nothing wrong with it? (other than the dropout issue this is being worked on is acutually a functionality problem and does actually need fixing)"
_
So instead of carrying on with a thoughtful conversation, which is what @Jaka83 did, you replied "_What you are experiencing is just one aspect of a serious issue as far as use of BLE for sensors in multi-sport. It happens also for cycling powermeters and if you have an ANT+ bridge you can study the problem further. There are certain instances in which pairing a sensor of one type, will forcibly kick others out of the pool (for recording data). I really wouldn't spend time on that now. It is a total mess (unless you only have one sensor)."

_Some generalities, "just one aspect of a serious issue", "total mess" seems dismissive to me, i.e. I don't know what I am talking about. I simply thought that the response should be in kind.

I have wasted enough of my time on this...nuff said.


----------



## martowl

DC RAINMAKER AW2 review is out here.

About what you would expect in his summary:
_There's no doubt that for a large portion of the population, the Apple Watch Series 2 upgrades (specifically the inclusion of GPS) will hit the spot. The watch feels slightly faster, and core functionality is just as clean as it's even been on the Apple Watch. In many ways, that's what's so much better about this watch than others: Being a really damn good smart watch._
_On the fitness front though, it's a bit mixed._
_The accuracy of both the optical HR and even the GPS leaves something to be desired. Of course, some of that is hard to really dissect given that Apple locks much of your GPS data behind a wall. They also fail to make it easy (or even possible) for 3rd party apps to gather data like your runs and share it on other platforms like Strava or MapMyFitness. Albeit, the instant pace is easy to dissect: It sucks._
_Of course you can always use the plethora of 3rd party apps to do that. And sometimes that's certainly the answer, be it fitness or day to day apps. But no matter which watch platform I use, I prefer that Fitness aspects like data openness and data portability be core and foundational to the device. I don't want a walled garden._


----------



## LONG_HAUL

Pathetic. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## aldburg

I noticed my strap on my SSU is starting to get some play where it meets the back of the watch. I'm worried it's going to get worse and come off. Anyone have this issue?


----------



## mordecans

user_none said:


> Sooo, you like being the nagging wife? Nobody else will say it, but I will. The constant negativity comes across as that old, nagging wife that every guy loathes. Chill. We're a bunch of dudes, geeking out over something fun, and the nagging is super cringe worthy.
> 
> Again, chill.


In my opinion the nagging wife is suunto. And it's impossible to be fun with something that after so much time is in this level of development.

And if someone is guilty about something is suunto because its failing and very expensive watch.

Users are not the nagging wife in fact we are the guy loathes, using your words.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LONG_HAUL

mordecans said:


> In my opinion the nagging wife is suunto. And it's impossible to be fun with something that after so much time is in this level of development.
> 
> And if someone is guilty about something is suunto because its failing and very expensive watch.
> 
> Users are not the nagging wife in fact we are the guy loathes, using your words.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They all have been doing this for a while, Polar, Suunto and Garmin. Polar released the V800 while in development, Suunto released the Spartan when it was a project in its infancy with even hardware in need of validation, and Garmin got their share of crap from customers with the Fenix3. They even started that whole idiotic "beta firmware" dump on customers who at times had little choice but to get the beta versions if they wanted a simple basic fix to their watch. It has gone from bad to worse in the past years and only Apple/Android can help us out as customers. I choose a garden with walls, as long as it has music playing.


----------



## Cyberbob13

martowl said:


> Yes, it is a common problem and occurring on A3P as well. Stryd and Suunto are aware of this and working on it. Have you upgraded to Stryd 1.1.1? No dropouts or freezes with my last 2 runs SSU Stealth Titanium.


Good to hear that you are not facing problems now. I run the last Stryd Summit FW version but the problem persists. Hope they have a fix for this soon.

Greetings from rom the heart of Europe, Christian


----------



## mordecans

LONG_HAUL said:


> They all have been doing this for a while, Polar, Suunto and Garmin. Polar released the V800 while in development, Suunto released the Spartan when it was a project in its infancy with even hardware in need of validation, and Garmin got their share of crap from customers with the Fenix3. They even started that whole idiotic "beta firmware" dump on customers who at times had little choice but to get the beta versions if they wanted a simple basic fix to their watch. It has gone from bad to worse in the past years and only Apple/Android can help us out as customers. I choose a garden with walls, as long as it has music playing.


But garmin now look likes that have learnt the lesson! Because with the F5 it seems is based in the Fenix 3, so it's reasonable to think, that the mistakes in Fenix 3 will not be done in this. But we will see!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bruceames

mordecans said:


> In my opinion the nagging wife is suunto. And it's impossible to be fun with something that after so much time is in this level of development.
> 
> And if someone is guilty about something is suunto because its failing and very expensive watch.
> 
> Users are not the nagging wife in fact we are the guy loathes, using your words.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't believe he was referring to SSU users.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

mordecans said:


> But garmin now look likes that have learnt the lesson! Because with the F5 it seems is based in the Fenix 3, so it's reasonable to think, that the mistakes in Fenix 3 will not be done in this. But we will see!!


Totally agree. Fenix5 could mark the end of this dark age GPS multi-sport watches are going through at the moment. If it comes out with all advertised functions working out of the box (like the Apple Watch or the 910XT), then it will set the tone for other companies in this niche market to get their crap in working order before throwing it at the market to see if it sticks.


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## martowl

Cyberbob13 said:


> Good to hear that you are not facing problems now. I run the last Stryd Summit FW version but the problem persists. Hope they have a fix for this soon.
> 
> Greetings from rom the heart of Europe, Christian


I have provided Stryd with a watch (I am close to them) for testing. Anymore information? I suspect if you see the dropouts I will too. It seems to occur more in cold weather for me and on longer runs. But not so far. I will have another run today with the Summit and see.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

LONG_HAUL said:


> Totally agree. Fenix5 could mark the end of this dark age GPS multi-sport watches are going through at the moment. If it comes out with all advertised functions working out of the box (like the Apple Watch or the 910XT), then it will set the tone for other companies in this niche market to get their crap in working order before throwing it at the market to see if it sticks.


Adidas is bailing and moving all miCoach crowd over to runtastic, ironman registration left to the flies on many events, times are changing.... can't see a platform like Spartan/Movescount becoming prevalent while data collection/analysis is crippled.


----------



## PTBC

LONG_HAUL said:


> Adidas is bailing and moving all miCoach crowd over to runtastic, ironman registration left to the flies on many events, times are changing.... can't see a platform like Spartan/Movescount becoming prevalent while data collection/analysis is crippled.


Adidas bought runtastic so makes sense to consolidate platforms, what is intruiging is Strava native app for Android wear watches etc. Could see a split with device manufacturers providing the hardware/OS platform and other groups focusing on the data analysis side. The new polar android wear basically runs a custom polar app for the activity side, it could potentially be switched out by the user for another app


----------



## user_none

mordecans said:


> In my opinion the nagging wife is suunto. And it's impossible to be fun with something that after so much time is in this level of development.
> 
> And if someone is guilty about something is suunto because its failing and very expensive watch.
> 
> Users are not the nagging wife in fact we are the guy loathes, using your words.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh boy!

Break it down...


> In my opinion the nagging wife is suunto.


In order for Suunto to be the nagging wife, they'd need a rep on these forums interjecting the same tired complaint, over and over. Conversely, they could be shilling their product on there (they're not) by repeatedly posting how perfect their products are. Have you seen anyone from Suunto on here? Didn't think so.

Suunto is quite literally the opposite of a nagging wife. Suunto is more analogous to the downtrodden husband who's now in stonewalling mode. A fair complaint against Suunto is that their communication leaves something to be desired. Yep, that's Suunto, the husband that's quiet and doing his own thing.



> And it's impossible to be fun with something that after so much time is in this level of development.


I don't hinge my emotional wellbeing on a toy. I go out, run among the trees, and check out info collected by the watch. If it's not fantastic data, so what. Suunto could have been better prepared for the SSU launch, no doubt. They've admitted to their screw up. They're improving at a steady pace, and I'm good with that.



> And if someone is guilty about something is suunto because its failing and very expensive watch.


My SSU works. Period. At full pop retail, the SSU is expensive. On that we agree.



> Users are not the nagging wife in fact we are the guy loathes, using your words.


User, singular. A single user. One. So, no, you're not using my words. "We", being the collective users in the Suunto forum loathe the nagging wife (LONG_HAUL) because darned near every post is *****ing, complaining, whining, nagging.

Discuss...


----------



## ws1972

Was for more than 3 years happy with the Ambit 2 and now since two weeks using the SSU and again a happy user. Not looking for a smartwatch but more for a "workhorse" for collecting gps and exercise data. GPS data is more than fine for me as I'm only comparing the data with my previous Ambit and not showing significant differences.


----------



## bruceames

Glad to see more and more happy owners out there. This thread was depressing in the early days, and even as recent as a month or two ago. But the watch is starting to come around and the thread is starting to reflect that. It will only get better I'm sure.


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> Adidas bought runtastic so makes sense to consolidate platforms, what is intruiging is Strava native app for Android wear watches etc. Could see a split with device manufacturers providing the hardware/OS platform and other groups focusing on the data analysis side. The new polar android wear basically runs a custom polar app for the activity side, it could potentially be switched out by the user for another app


Ah! Didn't know how to interpret "runtastic joining Adidas family" on the note I got. So they purchased runtastic. But they are also consolidating platforms as you said, and miCoach will be taken down by end of next year. Still sort of interpret that as bailing as they can sell runtastic at a later point with the end result being there is no more miCoach. Thanks for the info though. Are you saying a customer could set a new polar android wear to be just running the strava app? That could mean extra competition in warped ways for Suunto/Garmin. Is that what you are saying?


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## LONG_HAUL

user_none said:


> Oh boy!
> 
> Discuss...


Get over it.


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## user_none

LONG_HAUL said:


> Get over it.


Nah, I like calling out whiners.

edit: welcome to the ignore list.


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## oli70

dont feed the troll...


----------



## ws1972

Anyone using a Bluetooth footpod with the SSU? As I'm working offshore and sometimes have to deal with the treadmill I'm looking for a replacement pod as the one I used with the Ambit 2 is Ant+ and not bt. Any recommendations?


----------



## user_none

ws1972 said:


> Anyone using a Bluetooth footpod with the SSU? As I'm working offshore and sometimes have to deal with the treadmill I'm looking for a replacement pod as the one I used with the Ambit 2 is Ant+ and not bt. Any recommendations?


If you can find it, the Adidas MiCoach was recommended highly by DCR. Or, you could go the more expensive route and get the Stryd Summit.

edit: tfk10 for 10% off the Stryd.


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## ws1972

Yes but Micoach is getting harder to find....Stryd to expensive...


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## user_none

ws1972 said:


> Yes but Micoach is getting harder to find....Stryd to expensive...


Yeah, I've noticed the Adidas is getting harder to find, and the price is going up. I seem to recall Adidas discontinued it...maybe?

Check my previous post for a Stryd discount.


----------



## mordecans

user_none said:


> Oh boy!
> 
> Break it down...
> 
> In order for Suunto to be the nagging wife, they'd need a rep on these forums interjecting the same tired complaint, over and over. Conversely, they could be shilling their product on there (they're not) by repeatedly posting how perfect their products are. Have you seen anyone from Suunto on here? Didn't think so.
> 
> Suunto is quite literally the opposite of a nagging wife. Suunto is more analogous to the downtrodden husband who's now in stonewalling mode. A fair complaint against Suunto is that their communication leaves something to be desired. Yep, that's Suunto, the husband that's quiet and doing his own thing.
> 
> I don't hinge my emotional wellbeing on a toy. I go out, run among the trees, and check out info collected by the watch. If it's not fantastic data, so what. Suunto could have been better prepared for the SSU launch, no doubt. They've admitted to their screw up. They're improving at a steady pace, and I'm good with that.
> 
> My SSU works. Period. At full pop retail, the SSU is expensive. On that we agree.
> 
> User, singular. A single user. One. So, no, you're not using my words. "We", being the collective users in the Suunto forum loathe the nagging wife (LONG_HAUL) because darned near every post is *****ing, complaining, whining, nagging.
> 
> Discuss...


So to sum up, you think that if you pay 700 euros or dollars or whatever, for a watch today, is acceptable to pay the full amount for the half watch, because you will be able to use all the features, if you are lucky, in a near future.

At least, suunto could schedule the updates with the bugs solved and new features listed, just to be able for the customers to see them.

Sorry but, I'm not happy with my watch. When I do my job I don't do it at 60% and promise to do the rest 8 months later and without any explanation and Furthermore requiring the salary.

This is not a good work, and in my opinion bad work cannot be rewarded or forgiven, and more when is not the first time.

For you is acceptable that the watch doesn't tell you if the alarm is on or not? So simply feature... these kind of features are mandatory and because of his price the rest aswell.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CMSgt Bo

Let's get the discussion back on topic folks.


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## user_none

mordecans said:


> So to sum up, you think that if you pay 700 euros or dollars or whatever, for a watch today, is acceptable to pay the full amount for the half watch, because you will be able to use all the features, if you are lucky, in a near future.


You're projecting your thoughts into the argument as though they're my words; they're not. I believe in personal responsibility, and for that I'm only responsible (in this scenario) for myself. I did my due diligence prior to purchasing the SSU to see what current issues/bugs/features lacking, etc...and I accepted it at the current state when I made the purchase.

Here's a scenario where I'd be upset. I go to a trade show and speak to a Suunto rep, with no prior knowledge of the watch, and the rep tells me it can do all these great things. I purchase the watch based on that information, without having done any research, read reviews, perused forums, and it turns out it's lacking tons of what the rep said it would. That's where I'd be pissed, but I'd be pissed at myself at the same time for not verifying.



> At least, suunto could schedule the updates with the bugs solved and new features listed, just to be able for the customers to see them.


An update per month sure seems like a schedule to me. Currently, there is a post from Suunto regarding the next release. As for bugs, I don't know their development team, so no comment.



> Sorry but, I'm not happy with my watch. When I do my job I don't do it at 60% and promise to do the rest 8 months later and without any explanation and Furthermore requiring the salary.


If you're not happy with it, sell it. Simple, and it's bound to reduce your frustration level. No doubt Suunto hyped it up quite a bit and then released without all the features implemented right off the bat. Bad on Suunto for that.



> This is not a good work, and in my opinion bad work cannot be rewarded or forgiven, and more when is not the first time.


Bad work can be corrected, and I prefer to see that happen. Had Suunto promised all that they had before launch and not shown any progress, I'd not reward with a purchase, and I'd not forgive by moving to a different platform. As it is, Suunto is making progress.



> For you is acceptable that the watch doesn't tell you if the alarm is on or not? So simply feature... these kind of features are mandatory and because of his price the rest aswell.


I don't use it for an alarm. I have a perfectly good cell phone that is always plugged in to charge by the bed for an alarm clock. The SSU (and Ambit3) are first and foremost a training/fitness/fun aid. I could care less for an alarm, notifications, smart watch features, etc... For me, it records time, GPS tracks, HR data, distance, elevation, etc...and that's all I ask. For those items, it's working quite well.


----------



## mordecans

user_none said:


> You're projecting your thoughts into the argument as though they're my words; they're not. I believe in personal responsibility, and for that I'm only responsible (in this scenario) for myself. I did my due diligence prior to purchasing the SSU to see what current issues/bugs/features lacking, etc...and I accepted it at the current state when I made the purchase.
> 
> Here's a scenario where I'd be upset. I go to a trade show and speak to a Suunto rep, with no prior knowledge of the watch, and the rep tells me it can do all these great things. I purchase the watch based on that information, without having done any research, read reviews, perused forums, and it turns out it's lacking tons of what the rep said it would. That's where I'd be pissed, but I'd be pissed at myself at the same time for not verifying.
> 
> An update per month sure seems like a schedule to me. Currently, there is a post from Suunto regarding the next release. As for bugs, I don't know their development team, so no comment.
> 
> If you're not happy with it, sell it. Simple, and it's bound to reduce your frustration level. No doubt Suunto hyped it up quite a bit and then released without all the features implemented right off the bat. Bad on Suunto for that.
> 
> Bad work can be corrected, and I prefer to see that happen. Had Suunto promised all that they had before launch and not shown any progress, I'd not reward with a purchase, and I'd not forgive by moving to a different platform. As it is, Suunto is making progress.
> 
> I don't use it for an alarm. I have a perfectly good cell phone that is always plugged in to charge by the bed for an alarm clock. The SSU (and Ambit3) are first and foremost a training/fitness/fun aid. I could care less for an alarm, notifications, smart watch features, etc... For me, it records time, GPS tracks, HR data, distance, elevation, etc...and that's all I ask. For those items, it's working quite well.


Ok. I understand you but I don't agree.

If ssu is not a smartwatch don't offer smart watch, if you can't program a hole feature (alarm) don't offer it... and...

Yes, the sell is on the way, i only need someone to buy it, and I can tell that here in my country it's not easy at all if you don't loose a rather big amount of money.

As I have said in other post for me suunto is Nokia 6 years ago. Good enough hardware but not the software. And today is as much important as hardware or more because it allows to take the most of hardware or not.

Of course, different points of view are completely natural. Fortunately, not all the people feel the same with everything.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## user_none

mordecans said:


> Ok. I understand you but I don't agree.


Cool.



> If ssu is not a smartwatch don't offer smart watch, if you can't program a hole feature (alarm) don't offer it... and...


I get that some people want smart watch functionality, and it is cool stuff when implemented correctly. On the SSU, it seems more like a token addition, and rightly so since it's main function is fitness related. The alarm, yeah, that should be working perfectly right out of the gate.



> Yes, the sell is on the way, i only need someone to buy it, and I can tell that here in my country it's not easy at all if you don't loose a rather big amount of money.


Hopefully you get a decent asking price.



> As I have said in other post for me suunto is Nokia 6 years ago. Good enough hardware but not the software. And today is as much important as hardware or more because it allows to take the most of hardware or not.


To an extent I'd agree, but only due to Suunto not moving fast on the software side. It seems to me there's too much of a race between the various companies to include every little thing they can on a watch, which kind of sets expectations for a company like Suunto to do the same. I like the simple and clean interface of a Suunto. To me, it makes sense, and it's visually appealing.



> Of course, different points of view are completely natural. Fortunately, not all the people feel the same with everything.


Agreed.


----------



## PTBC

A number of people on this forum waited and purchased the watch when

1. There was an expectation of GPS fix in the near future
2. Price was lower

In general terms this is discounting, they accepted that the reduction in price was equivalent to the risk of the fix and/or missing features being enabled. Similarly anyone trying to sell it would face the same issues as prospective buyers have a different price point in mind. The issues and frustrations for that group may well be different than those that pre-ordered or purchased at full price as they have a perception of lower value than they purchased the watch for, and have experienced much higher risk. Pre-purchase is effectively the situation described where you had to take the rep (Suunto) at their word, even now the Spartan webpages includes pictures of screens that don't yet exist in production firmware, so understandably some feel unhappy to varying degrees.

So both of you may well be equally right, just starting from different points, ultimately it's down to value and for some the price only makes sense if they have the additional features, for others the basic fitness GPS functionality is enough and they perceive the price they paid is fair for that so the additional features and associated risk aren't as relevant. The announcement of the F5 also changes the equation of value for some as well.

The is it too early to buy SSU thread is a reflection of this; while the GPS was now better there was still some uncertainty around features and competitors and it really depended on what you wanted from the watch and what you would have to pay for it.

Personally I just want them to address my specific issues with GPS on my unit, but I do also worry about the features as part of my usage scenario was outdoors functions and opinion seems to be limited use for the Spartan in this area.


----------



## bruceames

I'll admit I only jumped in when the price point was at a more palatable level. I had been happy with the A3P anyway, but now I'm happy with the SSU (well, at least until I get a bad track, lol). 

I've done more than my share of paying higher early adopter prices, and the associated risks that go along with it. I pick and choose my spots in that regard, depending on the product offered and the state of the product I'm using now. Yes Suunto did offer this a little too early and their rep and that of the SSU has suffered considerably, but I think they will recover and the watch will do well enough in the long run (as well as the SSU2). Touch screen is the way to go these days, and the watch is light, beautiful and the display is very easy to read in all lighting conditions. That goes a long way right there and the feature list will continue to grow. This isn't like the Ambit1 where it was underpowered to begin with and so caused them to come out early with the the A2. The SSU has a lot of potential for improvement and will get much better over time.


----------



## Egika

Hello everyone.
I'm kind of new to this forum and have followed the Suunto threads now for some weeks.
I have owned/do own the S6, T6, T6D, Elementum Terra, A3P and the Traverse Alpha.
Depending on my daily schedule I decide if I wear the A3P (training), Elementum (good looking) or Traverse (hiking, general use).

Now I got a good deal on a SSU which I got for 330€. Following the discussions here I am now unsure what it could offer for me.
What are the real life advantages of the SSU to the A3P? Does it come down to it being only the touch screen, color display and better notification display and vibration?
While the A3P has the better battery life and theoretically superior GPS reception (I know that varies with the individual condition).

What other reason would there be for the SSU to replace my A3P?
If there is not much more to it, I could sell it again and even make some profit I guess.. b-)

Thanks

P.S.: once I have them all in my hands I can compare GPS reception between the three of course :-!


----------



## user_none

Egika said:


> Hello everyone.
> I'm kind of new to this forum and have followed the Suunto threads now for some weeks.
> I have owned/do own the S6, T6, T6D, Elementum Terra, A3P and the Traverse Alpha.
> Depending on my daily schedule I decide if I wear the A3P (training), Elementum (good looking) or Traverse (hiking, general use).
> 
> Now I got a good deal on a SSU which I got for 330€. Following the discussions here I am now unsure what it could offer for me.
> What are the real life advantages of the SSU to the A3P? Does it come down to it being only the touch screen, color display and better notification display and vibration?
> While the A3P has the better battery life and theoretically superior GPS reception (I know that varies with the individual condition).
> 
> What other reason would there be for the SSU to replace my A3P?
> If there is not much more to it, I could sell it again and even make some profit I guess.. b-)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> P.S.: once I have them all in my hands I can compare GPS reception between the three of course :-!


Here's the reasons I could see replacing the A3P with the SSU. I'm sure others will add to the list.

No antenna nub.
Arguably better looks. (though I like the looks of the A3P Sapphire as well.)
More fields on each display.
More likely to have future development, whereas A3 is most likely end of line.


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## BobMiles

martowl said:


> I have provided Stryd with a watch (I am close to them) for testing. Anymore information? I suspect if you see the dropouts I will too. It seems to occur more in cold weather for me and on longer runs. But not so far. I will have another run today with the Summit and see.


I had the dropout on my first run with Stryd (1.1.0), but it's been good for a while now. However, I chatted with the Stryd team and they told me it's a Bluetooth connection issue and suunto is planning to introduce a fix for it some time in spring (whenever spring is in Finland  )


----------



## Matus69

Erika, I own T3c for years. During the day I wear mechanical watches, I use suunto only for trail running and mountain biking. With iphone and strava it works fine for me. Recently I started to run longer distances and I wanted navigation as well. I can navigate with iphone but it is quite uncomfortable to remove it from the pocket all the time - specially during raining or when it is cold and I wear gloves.

So I wanted new running watch. A3P is the best (I think) but as I expect that I will own the watch for years (as now T3c) I didn't want to buy something that will be in 3-4 years obsolete. And perhaps without support.

That is the reason I purchased SSU. 
But If I were you and have the A3P already, I would stay with them and wait for some time. It is still a top watch and I think many manufacturers will come up soon with multipurpose sport watches as there is a great potential for revenues.


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## ws1972

The thread is indeed about the SSU and I think lately (since update 1.6.14) more about our experiences in how the watch is improving after the updates and not how people are scammed by Suunto.
We all know the launch was to early so we can stop moaning about that, it's what it is.

For anybody who's looking for a gps watch for your outdoor activity tracking I think the SSU is a fine choice. I used my Ambit 2 for almost 4 years and 5 days a week and was happy with it till the end. Replaced it for the SSU and the same feeling sofar. Fine watch.


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## LONG_HAUL

ws1972 said:


> The thread is indeed about the SSU and I think lately (since update 1.6.14) more about our experiences in how the watch is improving after the updates and not how people are scammed by Suunto.
> We all know the launch was to early so we can stop moaning about that, it's what it is.
> 
> For anybody who's looking for a gps watch for your outdoor activity tracking I think the SSU is a fine choice. I used my Ambit 2 for almost 4 years and 5 days a week and was happy with it till the end. Replaced it for the SSU and the same feeling sofar. Fine watch.


Glad that you have had a good experience so far. That's NOT the same for everyone here and some of us are pretty disappointed at the fact that Suunto mass produced and sold hardware that still needed validation. Several customer groups who got together to defend themselves from specific company behaviors could have been accused of moaning about nothing in the initial stages of getting organized. The crap all these companies have been throwing at us (not only Suunto, but Suunto being among them) is unacceptable.


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## Matus69

I know I am feeding the troll but I will react: using first customers as betatesters is common in automotive industry. I would never ever buy a new car model. The best is to buy new car after the "face-lift" or at least one year after the start of the production. What can we do as customers is either wait and buy later or accept this game.
You did the worst - you were not aware of the reality and you sold the watch instead of patient waiting. You can be angry on yourself, you can be angry on suunto but they do not read this forum.

Please consider leaving this topic. I am not is interested in whinging people and as I can see others neither.


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## buenosbias

Several pro runners have returned to the SSU from the A3, I noticed in recent weeks. Kilian Jornet among them, but not the only one. Lots of SSUs at the Tarawera Ultra.

In my one usage, I find it a very good device now. The GPS tracks are consistently good. Only thing I wonder about is that the tracks still look a bit coarser than the ones from my A3P. As if the SSU records less points per time.


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## oli70

user_none said:


> Here's the reasons I could see replacing the A3P with the SSU. I'm sure others will add to the list.
> 
> No antenna nub.
> Arguably better looks. (though I like the looks of the A3P Sapphire as well.)
> More fields on each display.
> More likely to have future development, whereas A3 is most likely end of line.


plus the reasons for me:
- display sharper and better contrast (at least in bright condition)
- faster gps fix
- faster system performance (eg switching screens during a move)


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## martowl

buenosbias said:


> Several pro runners have returned to the SSU from the A3, I noticed in recent weeks. Kilian Jornet among them, but not the only one. Lots of SSUs at the Tarawera Ultra.
> 
> In my one usage, I find it a very good device now. The GPS tracks are consistently good. Only thing I wonder about is that the tracks still look a bit coarser than the ones from my A3P. As if the SSU records less points per time.


Gediminus uses his consistently. Tarawere included hereGediminasGrinius's 8:23 h Trail running Move


----------



## Pegasus

I've been watching this topic for a while having participated early on and having been an early adopter and thoroughly disappointed.

My take now is that Suunto dropped the ball at the beginning and they've been scrambling to catch up since. The product is six months in and not where it should have been at the start yet so the annoyance should be understandable.

We all have different expectations and the price we each paid impacts that. I was 'compensated' by Suunto so it's safe to say they admit fault, I wasn't the only one.

In regard to functionality, we can spend the next year arguing over what functions should and shouldn't be present but the minimum should be that the functionality they sold us on works in a useable and useful way, the alarm is joked about but the implementation is poor, the notifications are poor........things need smoothing off.

It has improved but has a way to go in my view.

Is there anyway to use FusedAlti to get your altitude when you don't know it? Definitely could on the Ambit3 I had.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bruceames

Pegasus said:


> the alarm is joked about but the implementation is poor, the notifications are poor........things need smoothing off.


What's wrong with the alarm? I never use the alarm but remember someone complaining about needing x amount of steps to set an alarm...only to have someone else point out that the A3 needs about the same amount of steps.

Regarding notifications, again not a feature I really use but I've read that at least with the SSU you can scroll to read the entire notification. On the A3 you only read what could fit on the display.



> Is there anyway to use FusedAlti to get your altitude when you don't know it? Definitely could on the Ambit3 I had.


You can have custom sports modes now so if you want to see altitude just set it one of the fields. It will display FusedAlti if that's what the watch is set to (which I believe is the default setting).


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## LONG_HAUL

martowl said:


> Gediminus uses his consistently. Tarawere included hereGediminasGrinius's 8:23 h Trail running Move


Do pros get mass produced Spartans? And run the same firmware we run? Or do they get their watches through direct channels/delivery that could involved upgraded/modified/improved hardware/software?


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## PTBC

bruceames said:


> What's wrong with the alarm? I never use the alarm but remember someone complaining about needing x amount of steps to set an alarm...only to have someone else point out that the A3 needs about the same amount of steps.
> 
> Regarding notifications, again not a feature I really use but I've read that at least with the SSU you can scroll to read the entire notification. On the A3 you only read what could fit on the display.


The fact that it takes just as many steps on an older model doesn't make the current implementation any better, in fact you could argue they should have improved not just copied old method; I don't have an A3, but I doubt it has the 5 second lag on the time selection that SSU has screen based on other comments (or maybe tha'ts just my watch)

Similarly with notifications, has it improved form where they started, the answer is yes (a little), does it meet expectations people have then for some it's yes (your case) and for other it's no (mine, it should at least have some notification history, ability to see last notification etc.), comparing it to an old model that had even more limited functionality doesn't mean it's good.

The original point that mileage/feature needs vary and the price you paid for it factors into that still stands though and paying full price at release it's not unreasonable to expect all the listed features at that time to be implemented, how well they implement them is of course another issue. I appreciate it can be seen as negative or complaining, but it's just a different viewpoint, the lack of a GPS fix has likely forestalled a lot of feature discussion and perhaps it's a positive that people are moving on beyond GPS issues to features, pointless complaining about lack of POI if watch can't tell where you are after all!

The alarm has been a bit of a red herring I feel, mainly that the lack of an alarm function in a modern watch was so glaring an omission that it became talked about and was seen as an example of how lacking in features the launch SSU was, I'd rather have a countdown timer and am still amazed something so simple hasn't been done.

P.S. I have posted on the what do you like about Spartan post as well, trying to be positive where I can, ultimately I still own the watch and do believe it will become functional and hope it will meet initial expectations
P.P.S. Countdown timer would mainly be for non activity based stuff, like cooking, parking meter time etc., but still not a lot to ask surely.


----------



## bruceames

Good points PTBC. I think that now they mostly fixed the GPS issue (save the occasional issue with offsets), they can concentrate on the feature updates. Improving the alarm and notification usability should be something trivial and hopefully they'll do so soon.


----------



## margusl

ws1972 said:


> Yes but Micoach is getting harder to find....Stryd to expensive...


No personal experience, but Milestone is actively developing support for real time metrics and is looking for beta testers. And they do list Spartan as supported device.
MilestonePod Now in beta: [Some] Pod Metrics in Real Time - MilestonePod


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## XCJagge

martowl said:


> Gediminus uses his consistently. Tarawere included hereGediminasGrinius's 8:23 h Trail running Move


Typical offset bug can be seen from kilometer 79 on for about 20 minutes. My guess is at 79km the watch began to use a satellite it did not use before during this run and 20 minutes later watch had managed to download correct ephemeris data from that satelllite and stopped using estimated ephemeris causing the offset.


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## ws1972

margusl said:


> No personal experience, but Milestone is actively developing support real time metrics and is looking for beta testers. And they do list Spartan as supported device.
> MilestonePod Now in beta: [Some] Pod Metrics in Real Time - MilestonePod


Thanks for mentioning the Milestone pod! looking into this now


----------



## PTBC

XCJagge said:


> Typical offset bug can be seen from kilometer 79 on for about 20 minutes. My guess is at 79km the watch began to use a satellite it did not use before during this run and 20 minutes later watch had managed to download correct ephemeris data from that satelllite and stopped using estimated ephemeris causing the offset.


So that's the problem I'm not running far (or long) enough for correction to kick in!

Kind of ties in with my suspicion about how it handles switching/acquiring satellites being an issue, as I live in a valley that is between the coast and the mountains it may explain some of the weird behavior I'm having as the difference in the horizon to one direction causes the watch to switch or reacquire satellites more frequently. What I would like though is for Suunto to pull their finger out and do some work/analysis on my situation rather than me having to second guess and wonder if the device is faulty or not. I've seen other tracks on movescount in my area recorded by a Spartan that while better than mine do have some errors that are consistent with mine in the same location, e.g. , turn coming out of the lake trail spur and heading back along the river valley. I'm happy to accept geography being an issue, but it doesn't explain all the problems.


----------



## BobMiles

PTBC said:


> So that's the problem I'm not running far (or long) enough for correction to kick in!
> 
> Kind of ties in with my suspicion about how it handles switching/acquiring satellites being an issue, as I live in a valley that is between the coast and the mountains it may explain some of the weird behavior I'm having as the difference in the horizon to one direction causes the watch to switch or reacquire satellites more frequently. What I would like though is for Suunto to pull their finger out and do some work/analysis on my situation rather than me having to second guess and wonder if the device is faulty or not. I've seen other tracks on movescount in my area recorded by a Spartan that while better than mine do have some errors that are consistent with mine in the same location, e.g. , turn coming out of the lake trail spur and heading back along the river valley. I'm happy to accept geography being an issue, but it doesn't explain all the problems.


How are things with GLONASS for you?


----------



## PTBC

BobMiles said:


> How are things with GLONASS for you?


When I turned it on my impression was that the track became smoother, reduction in the drunken wandering and better holding of direction/line, but I then had an offset that steadily diverged to the point where I wasn't just running through houses/yards it was showing me running on a different street, this was the last 8 minutes of the run. Overall the shape of the track was good, just offset from real location


----------



## bruceames

PTBC said:


> When I turned it on my impression was that the track became smoother, reduction in the drunken wandering and better holding of direction/line, but I then had an offset that steadily diverged to the point where I wasn't just running through houses/yards it was showing me running on a different street, this was the last 8 minutes of the run. Overall the shape of the track was good, just offset from real location


If the shape of the track is good, then how is the total distance and pacing for you? If those metrics are good then having a (hopefully temporary) offset wouldn't seem to be a big deal on a route you run regularly. I never bother to see my tracks on the regular route except for being curious on occasion. The ones I want to save for posterity are the races, mountain hikes, and those moves off my regular route network.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> If the shape of the track is good, then how is the total distance and pacing for you? If those metrics are good then having a (hopefully temporary) offset wouldn't seem to be a big deal on a route you run regularly. I never bother to see my tracks on the regular route except for being curious on occasion. The ones I want to save for posterity are the races, mountain hikes, and those moves off my regular route network.


Variation in pace looked OK the range across the diverged section was 17sec/km no big spikes, mapped overall distance should have been 5.2km and it recorded 5km though I suspect most of that was where it cut a couple of corners earlier in the track rather than the big offset section.

This offset you could see even from the mobile app overview, but yes for regular routes I mainly look at it now because of the issues rather than anything else also will tend to check it if there are oddities in the pace chart.


----------



## XCJagge

PTBC said:


> ... my suspicion about how it handles switching/acquiring satellites being an issue...


I suspect switching satellites isn't the issue itself, but SGEE/CGEE information it uses before it manages to download fresh data from the satellite. When satelites get switch offset causing satellite comes and goes making offset come and go and that makes track all whacked. If it is the problem, bug should not kick in if watch has no SGEE/CGEE data at all. The it would not be able to use a satellite until fresh data is downloaded from the satellite. Such situation can possibly created by making forced firmware update (I think will it erase SGEE/CGEE?) and unplug watch before it "optmizes gps". Then just acquire satellites from all directions for some minutes and start running. Like this only fresh data is used and not server/client generated estimations, no matter what part of the sky is visible. If firmware update does not clear SGEE/CGEE the other option is by waiting for 3 weeks, maybe then SGEE/CGEE is so old it does not try using them. But this all is just guessing and possibly just nonsense.


----------



## PTBC

XCJagge said:


> I suspect switching satellites isn't the issue itself, but SGEE/CGEE information it uses before it manages to download fresh data from the satellite. When satelites get switch offset causing satellite comes and goes making offset come and go and that makes track all whacked. If it is the problem, bug should not kick in if watch has no SGEE/CGEE data at all. The it would not be able to use a satellite until fresh data is downloaded from the satellite. Such situation can possibly created by making forced firmware update (I think will it erase SGEE/CGEE?) and unplug watch before it "optmizes gps". Then just acquire satellites from all directions for some minutes and start running. Like this only fresh data is used and not server/client generated estimations, no matter what part of the sky is visible. If firmware update does not clear SGEE/CGEE the other option is by waiting for 3 weeks, maybe then SGEE/CGEE is so old it does not try using them. But this all is just guessing and possibly just nonsense.


Thanks, yes I agree that sounds plausible and definitely something Suunto should be dealing with, if I have a faulty unit or geography means lots of satellite switching which exacerbates the problem is something they have to sort out.

Local topographic profile (east/west)


----------



## Xelo

This offset issue is really interesting as we noticed, that it seems to happen always on the same spots of our running routes. Attached two pics: On the first one you see in yellow the path we were actually running and in red the offset and the other picture shows 2 graphs of exactly the same running path way and later back - one way is shown correctly, and the way back was also somhow












correct but simply 50 meters off.

It think it shows this offset issue quite well.


----------



## PTBC

Fellrnr review update did say it had mainly improved in one dimension "Spartan has relatively good trueness but poor precision", and it does seem to have the right shape track, just not in the right place. Also regarding the chipset he pointed out some information suggesting issues relating to estimate and actual Ephemeris data, but didn't have enough testing to determine if this was the case, he also noted that Glonass had some issues ("results are with GLONASS turned off, and I've seen dramatically worse results with it enabled")

Also seems to have noted an offset issue "the tracks form 2 distinct paths along the middle portion of the image, and it's not clear to me why this might be"

Suunto Spartan Ultra Review - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


----------



## bruceames

PTBC said:


> Fellrnr review update did say it had mainly improved in one dimension "Spartan has relatively good trueness but poor precision", and it does seem to have the right shape track, just not in the right place. Also regarding the chipset he pointed out some information suggesting issues relating to estimate and actual Ephemeris data, but didn't have enough testing to determine if this was the case, he also noted that Glonass had some issues ("results are with GLONASS turned off, and I've seen dramatically worse results with it enabled")
> 
> Also seems to have noted an offset issue "the tracks form 2 distinct paths along the middle portion of the image, and it's not clear to me why this might be"
> 
> Suunto Spartan Ultra Review - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


According to his chart the SSS ranks near the top in trueness (9.5). Interesting to note that although the SSU only has a precision score of 6.0, it's still a lot better than the Fenix 3 which is only 5.3. Hopefully the next update will improve it even further.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> According to his chart the SSS ranks near the top in trueness (9.5). Interesting to note that although the SSU only has a precision score of 6.0, it's still a lot better than the Fenix 3 which is only 5.3. Hopefully the next update will improve it even further.


While admitting hes has only done limited testing 5krunner has noted he has better performance from the Sport than Ultra, think he even has a map that shows a run using both at the same time, which doesn't really make sense given you would expect antenna to be the same and GPS chipset is the same along with most of the internals.


----------



## aldburg

Emailed Suunto about my Spartan strap having a lot of play where it meets the watch and they told me to drive 40 miles one way into Canada to one of their service centers. Suunto is run by complete idiots. Not driving 80 miles round trip for something that's covered under the 1 year warranty. 

When the watch first came out I requested a second charging cable and they had no idea how to get me another. You would think if you come out with a new watch that uses a proprietary charging cable that you would also sell the charging cable. What's even better, they sent me an Ambit 3 charging cable for the Spartan! I had to email them again and to let them know of their incompetency. Shipping the wrong cable from Finland to the US, no wonder the Spartan has taken so long to become even usable.


----------



## PTBC

aldburg said:


> Emailed Suunto about my Spartan strap having a lot of play where it meets the watch and they told me to drive 40 miles one way into Canada to one of their service centers. Suunto is run by complete idiots. Not driving 80 miles round trip for something that's covered under the 1 year warranty.
> 
> When the watch first came out I requested a second charging cable and they had no idea how to get me another. You would think if you come out with a new watch that uses a proprietary charging cable that you would also sell the charging cable. What's even better, they sent me an Ambit 3 charging cable for the Spartan! I had to email them again and to let them know of their incompetency. Shipping the wrong cable from Finland to the US, no wonder the Spartan has taken so long to become even usable.


For the cost of the device vs. the cost of a cable you think that they would stick a spare one in the box as it's proprietary (not referring just to Suunto); someone mentioned picking up a cable from somewhere (ebay maybe?); Suunto still wasn't listing them for sale last time I looked a few weeks ago.


----------



## rotia

Will be tomorrow a new firmware update?

It will be the las wednesday of February ...


----------



## doowadiddy

PTBC said:


> For the cost of the device vs. the cost of a cable you think that they would stick a spare one in the box as it's proprietary (not referring just to Suunto); someone mentioned picking up a cable from somewhere (ebay maybe?); Suunto still wasn't listing them for sale last time I looked a few weeks ago.


Not listed under SSU 
suunto.com/en-GB/Products/Other-accessories/Suunto-Black-Magnetic-USB-Cable/
suunto.com/en-GB/Products/Other-accessories/Suunto-White-Magnetic-USB-Cable/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## martowl

doowadiddy said:


> Not listed under SSU
> suunto.com/en-GB/Products/Other-accessories/Suunto-Black-Magnetic-USB-Cable/
> suunto.com/en-GB/Products/Other-accessories/Suunto-White-Magnetic-USB-Cable/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I bought a cable from Amazon. It works well for syncing and charging $15 USA.


----------



## BobMiles

rotia said:


> Will be tomorrow a new firmware update?
> 
> It will be the las wednesday of February ...


I hope so! Feels like time for update-Wednesday


----------



## Cassote

I know that some of us suunto customers have troubles on support , but I couldn't be more satisfied....

scenario: 
bough spartan ultra (my first suunto product ) in november 
had batterie problems in December and icntacted suunto
had problems with dhl since they didn't pick up packages at my city
contacted suunto support 
got email saying pick up was already solved and I had only to set up day for pick up 
got a new Watch( whole box, so I got 2 cables now ) delivered in less than 14 days .
got a beanie, neck sleeve/wrist warmer , stickers and pens as compensation
in January crashed in my bike after braking handlebar , and my Watch strap was decided in pieces . 
Contacted suunto for spare parts since I don't need a new one ( was able to pick up some parts on the place I crashed and my problem was fixed )
couple weeks later I received a new complete strap for free... 

guess I've been lucky...


----------



## PTBC

Cassote said:


> I know that some of us suunto customers have troubles on support , but I couldn't be more satisfied....
> 
> scenario:
> bough spartan ultra (my first suunto product ) in november
> had batterie problems in December and icntacted suunto
> had problems with dhl since they didn't pick up packages at my city
> contacted suunto support
> got email saying pick up was already solved and I had only to set up day for pick up
> got a new Watch( whole box, so I got 2 cables now ) delivered in less than 14 days .
> got a beanie, neck sleeve/wrist warmer , stickers and pens as compensation
> in January crashed in my bike after braking handlebar , and my Watch strap was decided in pieces .
> Contacted suunto for spare parts since I don't need a new one ( was able to pick up some parts on the place I crashed and my problem was fixed )
> couple weeks later I received a new complete strap for free...
> 
> guess I've been lucky...


Taken me over a month (Jan 12th to Feb 20th) between raising an issue and have a notice that it has been escalated to technical Tier II support to review issue


----------



## Cassote

as i said , maybe I was just lucky ... 

after some emails I already knew that the person I'm care of my case would responde at (GMT 2/3 am) . So everything was coordinated , took about 1/2 days tops to respond . But they took care of any issue. 

The issue you reported might have been something more complicated than battery but , so ...


----------



## bruceames

Suunto has been known for good customer service so I don't think you were lucky. I haven't dealt with them for a few years, things could have changed, but my guess is that your case is more typical then out of the ordinary.


----------



## PTBC

Cassote said:


> as i said , maybe I was just lucky ...
> 
> after some emails I already knew that the person I'm care of my case would responde at (GMT 2/3 am) . So everything was coordinated , took about 1/2 days tops to respond . But they took care of any issue.
> 
> The issue you reported might have been something more complicated than battery but , so ...


GPS performance issues, my feeling is they have been holding off and waiting to see what GPS fix sorted out for people, not that I object to that approach, just that you should communicate it rather than leave people hanging.


----------



## user_none

bruceames said:


> Suunto has been known for good customer service so I don't think you were lucky. I haven't dealt with them for a few years, things could have changed, but my guess is that your case is more typical then out of the ordinary.


I've only dealt with them a couple of times and had great service. Granted, it was for simple firmware upgrades to the T6 and T6c (remember that?), but that process was super smooth.


----------



## Egika

PTBC said:


> GPS performance issues, my feeling is they have been holding off and waiting to see what GPS fix sorted out for people, not that I object to that approach, just that you should communicate it rather than leave people hanging.


OK, you have a feeling. That's fine.
Now demanding actions from your personal impression - that's a bit bold, don't you think?

Actually Trump style


----------



## Cassote

Funny thing ... today spartan did a new thing ... it took about 1 min to get info on speed and I could not see breadcrumb tracks.... first time it happened in about 50-60 moves ... any ideas ?


----------



## PTBC

Cassote said:


> Funny thing ... today spartan did a new thing ... it took about 1 min to get info on speed and I could not see breadcrumb tracks.... first time it happened in about 50-60 moves ... any ideas ?


Maybe related to the slow down/lag issue that\s been noted as the logbook fills up? Though sounds like it couldn't read or lost GPS briefly, so no data to display


----------



## PTBC

Egika said:


> OK, you have a feeling. That's fine.
> Now demanding actions from your personal impression - that's a bit bold, don't you think?
> 
> Actually Trump style


Asking for better communication from Suunto over the entire GPS issue isn't unreasonable, launch of SSU has hardly been exemplary.

As for the customer service thing I've had multiple we are working on it form responses to GPS tickets and as I've done design and implementation of service desk, intake and Tier II support process lets call it an informed guess rather than a feeling. I see the business logic for why they may act in a certain way, I just disagree with how they communicate and handle incident and problem processes based on what I've seen.


----------



## marcomueller

No update today...:-|


----------



## jhonzatko

Yeah, i'm disappointed too ...


----------



## Cassote

Even funnier , I force update in order to clean logbook , etc , and the issue persisted ... I went to sleep and today everything's back to normal ... now it's just waiting for update time !


----------



## Jaka83

It looks like the next update isn't quite ready and they are probably extending the update cycle. 

I was all fired up for today's update.


----------



## bruceames

Looks like it may be early March, according to a Suunto reply to a Stryd compatibility question by a user.

"Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Our developers have acknowledge that this is indeed an issue with the current software of the Suunto Spartan. It appears the watch cannot reconnect to the Stryd Power POD if the signal was lost somehow.
*An update will be release early this March *to address this matter."


----------



## aldburg

I was referring to when the watch first came out in August and September. I would hope that 6 months later that Suunto would have actually have something by now.


----------



## Jaka83

bruceames said:


> Looks like it may be early March, according to a Suunto reply to a Stryd compatibility question by a user.
> 
> "Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
> Our developers have acknowledge that this is indeed an issue with the current software of the Suunto Spartan. It appears the watch cannot reconnect to the Stryd Power POD if the signal was lost somehow.
> *An update will be release early this March *to address this matter."


Dang it ... and still no word of simultaneous power and cadence/speed readout from smart sensors (bike-trainer or running strap).

I did find something interesting yesterday I did not know was there. I always thought that at the screen where you have the training hours and distances on your watch and you swipe one screen to the left, there is just a quick log of your last activity. What it actually is, is a summary of activities by type and you can swipe further to reveal all the logged activities by type.
For example at the main "Training" screen I get the active hours and minutes with the bar display for each activity type (I have three at the moment - hiking, skiing and indoor cycling) ... then one swipe to the left I get the hiking summary with 27:33 h, 108,3 km and 9073 kcal - then another swipe to the left and I get the skiing summary with 11:17 h, 142,9 km and 2719 ckal - then another swipe and I get the indoor cycling summary with 3:30 h, 94,9 km and 2827 kcal.

I love finding stuff like this. 

Maybe Suunto should write or shoot videos for the features they add. Usually people don't know where to swipe or long press or anything. I remember how long it took me to find the long press of the middle button during an exercise to set up navigation and extra settings on the Ambit1. I don't recall it being documented in the manual.

Anyway ... there are some "hidden" screens which some users find by accident. Thought I'd share this with the forum users, even though I know some are going to call me _mr. slow_. :-d


----------



## Cassote

It's there from last update.


----------



## PTBC

Jaka83 said:


> Dang it ... and still no word of simultaneous power and cadence/speed readout from smart sensors (bike-trainer or running strap).
> 
> I did find something interesting yesterday I did not know was there. I always thought that at the screen where you have the training hours and distances on your watch and you swipe one screen to the left, there is just a quick log of your last activity. What it actually is, is a summary of activities by type and you can swipe further to reveal all the logged activities by type.
> For example at the main "Training" screen I get the active hours and minutes with the bar display for each activity type (I have three at the moment - hiking, skiing and indoor cycling) ... then one swipe to the left I get the hiking summary with 27:33 h, 108,3 km and 9073 kcal - then another swipe to the left and I get the skiing summary with 11:17 h, 142,9 km and 2719 ckal - then another swipe and I get the indoor cycling summary with 3:30 h, 94,9 km and 2827 kcal.
> 
> I love finding stuff like this.
> 
> Maybe Suunto should write or shoot videos for the features they add. Usually people don't know where to swipe or long press or anything. I remember how long it took me to find the long press of the middle button during an exercise to set up navigation and extra settings on the Ambit1. I don't recall it being documented in the manual.
> 
> Anyway ... there are some "hidden" screens which some users find by accident. Thought I'd share this with the forum users, even though I know some are going to call me _mr. slow_. :-d


If you swipe the other way it shows you planned moves you have entered in movescount site


----------



## aldburg

Got a prepaid shipping label from Suunto to send my watch in for warranty and take a look at what was generated.








Once again Suunto shows that they are completely incompetent. I had to print a readable return address and paste it over the return address generated in pre-paid shipping label.

Just getting to their service request form part of their website is horrible. They link you to their online service request page then I click on USA and I get forward to their troubleshooting page..... apparently the service request form is in a tab above the default troubleshooting page. Apparently they can't seem to forward the customer directly to where you need to go. How does this company still exist?


----------



## cizi

So, I am new here and have just one question. Yesterday I bought SSU. I came from Garmin Fenix 3. Still little bit disappointed but I am getting used to. Many things from F3 still missing. But question is. Is actually someone happy with these watch?


----------



## philipp0785

cizi said:


> So, I am new here and have just one question. Yesterday I bought SSU. I came from Garmin Fenix 3. Still little bit disappointed but I am getting used to. Many things from F3 still missing. But question is. Is actually someone happy with these watch?


Since the last update I'm very happy with this watch!
Yes, there are some features missing.
I would like to have customable watch faces and perhaps the possibility for external apps like weather.
I think, the Fenix 3 is able to fulfill these features. But I don't like the design of the Garmin.

Why have you changed from Garmin?


----------



## cizi

So, the reason is simple . Garmin works as expected, no issue but for Fenix3 the life cycle end is slowly coming and I wanted to try something new and newer then 2 yrs old model. The pros for SSU is sapphire glass, better resolution and comparability. Even though still have a few things to discover for example where is timer, compass or is possible to check pressure during workout? Still looking for HR which will have cadence and osculation feature ...


----------



## ws1972

cizi said:


> So, I am new here and have just one question. Yesterday I bought SSU. I came from Garmin Fenix 3. Still little bit disappointed but I am getting used to. Many things from F3 still missing. But question is. Is actually someone happy with these watch?


I'm happy with the watch : Came from the Ambit 2 that needed to be replaced after almost 4 years extensive use. Using the SSU since end of January (since last update 1.6.14) and got 19 moves sofar.
There are some items that can be possibly add or tweaked by updates (for me the interval mode and vibration to poor) but in general the watch is doing exactly where I bought it for : logging my trainings, and as I've said in earlier posts my GPS tracks are equal or better than with my Ambit 2, so yes I'm happy with the SSU.


----------



## cizi

So guys. One quick question. Is any option how to switch off the device or how to do a factory reset? Thanks in advance.


----------



## ws1972

cizi said:


> So guys. One quick question. Is any option how to switch off the device or how to do a factory reset? Thanks in advance.


_Factory reset :
Connect watch to computer / open suuntolink / click on settings (gearwheel) / watches / suunto spartan._
_This shoud be delete all data including moves: "back to factory state"

Or hold 3 buttons 15 secs_


----------



## Matus69

I am happy as well.


----------



## mordecans

Matus69 said:


> I am happy as well.


For me it's impossible to be happy with a watch that doesn't accomplish with the features presented in July 2016. Furthermore suunto has achieved to launch the updates not every month, since the next update will be in march. I think suunto is thinking in SSU2, and not in improving the actual software, otherwise the updates would be more frequently.

A cheaper watch do the same, even better, as the SSU.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BobMiles

There will be a new movescount android beta soon, featuring:
_Activity trend insight element showing steps and energy consumption.


----------



## PTBC

aldburg said:


> Got a prepaid shipping label from Suunto to send my watch in for warranty and take a look at what was generated.
> 
> View attachment 10968058
> 
> Once again Suunto shows that they are completely incompetent. I had to print a readable return address and paste it over the return address generated in pre-paid shipping label.
> 
> Just getting to their service request form part of their website is horrible. They link you to their online service request page then I click on USA and I get forward to their troubleshooting page..... apparently the service request form is in a tab above the default troubleshooting page. Apparently they can't seem to forward the customer directly to where you need to go. How does this company still exist?


On the plus side handy to know that's the shipping address for repair/warranty I could just drop mine off there if I needed to send it back


----------



## PTBC

cizi said:


> So, I am new here and have just one question. Yesterday I bought SSU. I came from Garmin Fenix 3. Still little bit disappointed but I am getting used to. Many things from F3 still missing. But question is. Is actually someone happy with these watch?


Perhaps a better question is are people happier with the watch since they purchased it or since the last update, even if SSU doesn't achieve it's promised potential as long as it is moving forward that is a positive. Also comes down to features, someone maybe unhappy that Navigation/POI isn't released even though they are generally happy with the watch, there's been similar discussion about this such as smart watch type features where some are happy with current state, some want more/better and some don't care as it wasn't important to them when they purchased the watch.

Example - GPS is noticeably better for me if I turn Glonass on, but Glonass has an offset bug, so I'm happier, but still not happy.


----------



## bruceames

mordecans said:


> For me it's impossible to be happy with a watch that doesn't accomplish with the features presented in July 2016. Furthermore suunto has achieved to launch the updates not every month, since the next update will be in march. I think suunto is thinking in SSU2, and not in improving the actual software, otherwise the updates would be more frequently.
> 
> A cheaper watch do the same, even better, as the SSU.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For all we know there could be two FW updates in March. They may be simply holding up this one for a week because of Stryd compatibility. Did Suunto promise an update every month back in July 2016?


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> For all we know there could be two FW updates in March. They may be simply holding up this one for a week because of Stryd compatibility. Did Suunto promise an update every month back in July 2016?


In a sense they did as they did show a schedule (later withdrawn) that had monthly updates, they then said they wouldn't use dates as it caused problems when they missed them, not unreasonable and a more sensible approach.

It's more a question of transparency really, certainly there is an expectation of monthly updates and if Suunto are replying to customer service queries that there will be an early March update it's obviously not confidential information so would make more sense to publish it more generally and let people know. Part of their problem is they don't have a forum or a method to engage with their customer base in a wider sense for announcements and notices.


----------



## ws1972

mordecans said:


> For me it's impossible to be happy with a watch that doesn't accomplish with the features presented in July 2016. Furthermore suunto has achieved to launch the updates not every month, since the next update will be in march. I think suunto is thinking in SSU2, and not in improving the actual software, otherwise the updates would be more frequently.
> 
> A cheaper watch do the same, even better, as the SSU.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So yours on Ebay now? Think you'll get a fair price for it
If I'd bought the watch in July last year and still not happy I would have sold it, simple as that


----------



## bruceames

PTBC said:


> In a sense they did as they did show a schedule (later withdrawn) that had monthly updates, they then said they wouldn't use dates as it caused problems when they missed them, not unreasonable and a more sensible approach.
> 
> It's more a question of transparency really, certainly there is an expectation of monthly updates and if Suunto are replying to customer service queries that there will be an early March update it's obviously not confidential information so would make more sense to publish it more generally and let people know. Part of their problem is they don't have a forum or a method to engage with their customer base in a wider sense for announcements and notices.


I never heard of a company that will publish update schedules, or even give a notice a week or two in advance. Doesn't make sense as their beta testers need to make sure the update is ready for general release and the timing on that can vary depending on how it goes. So all the companies I know just release the FW will little to no advance notice, as they are only finding out for themselves that it's ready. Does Garmin or Polar provide update schedules or say an update is coming on such and such a date?

Do you have a screenshot of what Suunto "promised" and (supposedly) later withdrew?


----------



## bruceames

mordecans said:


> For me it's impossible to be happy with a watch that doesn't accomplish with the features presented in July 2016. Furthermore suunto has achieved to launch the updates not every month, since the next update will be in march. I think suunto is thinking in SSU2, and not in improving the actual software, otherwise the updates would be more frequently.
> 
> A cheaper watch do the same, even better, as the SSU.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When did you buy the watch?


----------



## Cassote

I think monthly updates would be a nice pace, but I have to agree .... there are no promises , so ...


----------



## mordecans

yes, i'm trying to sell de watch in order to buy the garmin fenix 5. but it's very difficult to sell in second hand because the people who are contacting me, are giving me a very low price because of all of this issues we are argueing in this post. and i lose a lot of money. because i have it since november so i pay rather much money for it.

i know this is simple, but is not as simple when you cannot recover at least the 70% of your money back.



ws1972 said:


> So yours on Ebay now? Think you'll get a fair price for it
> If I'd bought the watch in July last year and still not happy I would have sold it, simple as that


----------



## mordecans

i buy the watch because of the promises. and my worst mistake was to change the fenix 3 for this.

the update would be compulsory launched before than suunto is doing, otherwise it means that suunto are not spending enough resources in this issue, and probably it's because for them this problem is not as serious as is, at least, for me.

but i supose that people that agree with that could buy, for example a car, without air conditioning, without abs or whatever, but with the promise you will have it when the brand decide, because they don't have a internal calendar, since they are reactive to the problems and issues and not proactive to them.



bruceames said:


> When did you buy the watch?


----------



## mordecans

bruceames said:


> I never heard of a company that will publish update schedules, or even give a notice a week or two in advance. Doesn't make sense as their beta testers need to make sure the update is ready for general release and the timing on that can vary depending on how it goes. So all the companies I know just release the FW will little to no advance notice, as they are only finding out for themselves that it's ready. Does Garmin or Polar provide update schedules or say an update is coming on such and such a date?
> 
> Do you have a screenshot of what Suunto "promised" and (supposedly) later withdrew?


no, i don't.

but garmin allows to everybody to install beta software in the watch, so you are able to correct the issues step by step, and allow the people to give feedback about this beta, in order to launch a better golden version. and not only beta testers do that. if you allow to all the users to analize a software you have the ability to have a very strong software.

the software for me is next to infancy instead of highly developed.


----------



## cizi

Bloody hell, I am not able to reset the watch. After reset I still see my steps and all the settings. I unlinked the suuntolink soft from my account and that doesnt work. Any idea please?


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> I never heard of a company that will publish update schedules, or even give a notice a week or two in advance. Doesn't make sense as their beta testers need to make sure the update is ready for general release and the timing on that can vary depending on how it goes. So all the companies I know just release the FW will little to no advance notice, as they are only finding out for themselves that it's ready. Does Garmin or Polar provide update schedules or say an update is coming on such and such a date?
> 
> Do you have a screenshot of what Suunto "promised" and (supposedly) later withdrew?


Don't have a screenshot, but look back through the threads, the original Spartan stronger pages had months with features released by month it was late August/early September I think; I wasn't alone in being skeptical that it was too aggressive
As for advance notice that can vary, some companies issue to a schedule and publish that (Patch Tuesday), I agree with all your reasons for why they may not publish a schedule and that they shouldn't, but the point in this case was that they are telling people so obviously they are happy for people to know, but it is in an ad-hoc manner and that maybe some transparency to wider user group would be nice


----------



## bruceames

mordecans said:


> i buy the watch because of the promises. and my worst mistake was to change the fenix 3 for this.
> 
> the update would be compulsory launched before than suunto is doing, otherwise it means that suunto are not spending enough resources in this issue, and probably it's because for them this problem is not as serious as is, at least, for me.
> 
> but i supose that people that agree with that could buy, for example a car, without air conditioning, without abs or whatever, but with the promise you will have it when the brand decide, because they don't have a internal calendar, since they are reactive to the problems and issues and not proactive to them.


Probably not a good idea to buy watches based on promises, but rather the features it has now. Sure, one can anticipate having features added, but I would have pretty low expectations, particularly regarding timing, in order to not be disappointed. The Garmin Fenix watches have always had more features, so if you're expecting Suunto to have everything the Fenix has and soon, then you will certainly be disappointed. Anyway the feature set is only a part of the equation. The SSU already has a better GPS than the Fenix and Suunto watches have always been more reliable. Also there is the higher resolution display and touchscreen that the Fenix 5 won't have, not to mention that it's better looking and lighter. All watches have their pluses and minuses. Good luck with the Fenix 5.


----------



## Pegasus

PTBC said:


> Don't have a screenshot, but look back through the threads, the original Spartan stronger pages had months with features released by month it was late August/early September I think; I wasn't alone in being skeptical that it was too aggressive
> As for advance notice that can vary, some companies issue to a schedule and publish that (Patch Tuesday), I agree with all your reasons for why they may not publish a schedule and that they shouldn't, but the point in this case was that they are telling people so obviously they are happy for people to know, but it is in an ad-hoc manner and that maybe some transparency to wider user group would be nice


This is true, those of us in from the beginning bought on the basis of a detailed schedule of updates from Suunto. Suunto did make promises they couldn't keep, I have email correspondence and had 'compensation' to prove this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Pegasus said:


> This is true, those of us in from the beginning bought on the basis of a detailed schedule of updates from Suunto. Suunto did make promises they couldn't keep, I have email correspondence and had 'compensation' to prove this.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did a bit of digging and anyone remember this (weekly updates not just monthly!)

post #1970 (late Sept.)

"Now there is roadmap for upcoming updates in Suunto's webpage.

28.9. Android compatibility, improvements to daily use (such as alarm clock) and training functions, peer-to-peer coaching on Suunto Movescount.com 
12.10. Ability to adjust default sport mode settings
19.10. Progress Tool, Personal Bests and Community Training Insights on Suunto Movescount.com 
26.10. Sport mode customization, training plans to your watch and more 
11/2016 Altitude and Barometric trends, POI Navigation & heart rate zones graph for training 
12/2016 Rest & recovery 
Q1/2017 Route altitude profile, interval training support, performance and recovery analysis on the watch"

Which replaced from Sept. 2nd (around about #1500 I think)

"UPCOMING UPDATES
There will be two SW updates to Spartan Solution in September. The first release on the second week of September will bring bug fixes and usability improvements to both Spartan Ultra and Spartan Sport watches.

The second update later in September will bring the following features to the solution:

Customization of sport mode settings
Android compatibility
Peer-to-Peer coaching in Suunto Movescount
Annual / all-time personal best dashboard with age group comparison in Suunto Movescount
Long-term progress analysis in Suunto Movescount
Community training insights from peer groups in Suunto Movescount
Weekly planning tools for yourself and your coach in Suunto Movescount
Alarm clock"

Now I'd be the first to say Suunto was going to far in sharing information here and got their fingers burned, but they now seem to have swung back to a very closed mentality, something in between would be better. There's also some posts of replies from support referencing GPS fix expected in Sept. Actually reading some of the old posts was interesting and does show that Spartan has improved, albeit at a slow pace.


----------



## bruceames

Well they probably should not have published such a detailed schedule, but I wouldn't interpret keeping to those dates as some sort of "promise" that was "broken". Much of that has already been fulfilled and the rest will be in time. But I understand the frustration in those who were expecting the timeline to be fulfilled, at least those who bought the watch day One. I think the timeline would have been more accurate had not the issue with GPS accuracy been so acute. It's a totally new watch with groundbreaking features and stuff happens. This isn't like going from the Fenix 3 to the Fenix 5. PTBC has cut them a lot of slack as he understands this. Others are more impatient and have sold their watch and moved on. It is what it is, but I'm happy with my SSU and see that it's starting to become a solid watch (just needs more features of course, but otherwise it's a great watch).


----------



## Matus69

mordecans said:


> For me it's impossible to be happy with a watch that doesn't accomplish with the features presented in July 2016. Furthermore suunto has achieved to launch the updates not every month, since the next update will be in march. I think suunto is thinking in SSU2, and not in improving the actual software, otherwise the updates would be more frequently.
> A cheaper watch do the same, even better, as the SSU.


of course it also depends on what you need. 
I need navigation (still missing the POI notification) and measurement of speed, ascent and heart rate with strava compatibility - this all with good battery life, in good looking, reliable and solid body. 
I purchased for 450 eur, which is a lot, but I still think that it is a reasonable price. And if Suunto develops what is promised, it will be even better.


----------



## borgelkranz

I bought this watch the first day it was available. And as I stated earlier in this thread, I did so because I WANTED it. Strictly speaking I did not need it. I bought the watch because Suunto's marketing was very compelling. 
Of course I was frustrated at times. But because I bought this gadget myself (nobody forced me to do so) I decided to put the blame on me, not on the company.

As things stand now, I am happy with this watch. GPS is precise enough, I can use my Stryd Summit, it looks cool and feels right, and new features that I want to see in this watch are on the horizon. True, there are no development milestones available to us customers. But I am inclined to think, that Suunto will ultimately deliver.

Why do I have this feeling, you might ask. Their current list of priorities (In Development) reflects my wishes which I also provided to them via their feedback link. So I have the impression that they are listening.

Hopefully, they get the interval support and structured workouts right. If not, even I might get mad as hell... :think:


----------



## Xelo

What I always see when I campare my Ambit 2s (that I want to replace soon) to the SSU of my running partner is that the SSU is just never as accurate and the graph of the A2S is so much smoother. Today we ran 30k and this is an example of a 500 meter crop and one can see this results more or less all over the track. You'll easily guess which graph belong to which watch. SSU graph is just never hitting the path.

And today was quita clear sky, I noticed it gets worse with SSU when it's cloudy or foggy. A2s is not really impressed by bad weather conditions.

Will Suunto ever make Spartan an accuacy rival of the Ambit series? Maybe there is a hardware issue that will be solved by SSU2.


----------



## Egika

Xelo said:


> What I always see when I campare my Ambit 2s (that I want to replace soon) to the SSU of my running partner is that the SSU is just never as accurate and the graph of the A2S is so much smoother. Today we ran 30k and this is an example of a 500 meter crop and one can see this results more or less all over the track. You'll easily guess which graph belong to which watch. SSU graph is just never hitting the path.
> 
> And today was quita clear sky, I noticed it gets worse with SSU when it's cloudy or foggy. A2s is not really impressed by bad weather conditions.
> 
> Will Suunto ever make Spartan an accuacy rival of the Ambit series? Maybe there is a hardware issue that will be solved by SSU2.
> View attachment 10987778


Yes. There is a hardware issue. The one with the antenna placement. The Spartan's GPS antenna is almost never pointed well towards the sky while running.
The Ambits have the separate antenna bump that has a better orientation and probably more room for the antenna itself.

That's why also Ambit Vertical and Traverse struggle with when compared to classical Ambits.

Now: did you use Glonass for this run? If yes: try without


----------



## scandium48

Im curious with this comparison - and as an ex Suunto Ambit user and general Suunto owner (Vector, Obsersor, X9, X10, Core, Ambits) but now using Polar V800...yes, I do see a slight offset between your Ambit, and the SSU, but for you and all others - what was the distance difference? Was there such a huge difference during and at the end between the two that impacted your training and you missed your training target? Did you get lost during the run because of the offset, and were unable to follow your path leading you to be lost? Thanks.



Egika said:


> Yes. There is a hardware issue. The one with the antenna placement. The Spartan's GPS antenna is almost never pointed well towards the sky while running.
> The Ambits have the separate antenna bump that has a better orientation and probably more room for the antenna itself.
> 
> That's why also Ambit Vertical and Traverse struggle with when compared to classical Ambits.
> 
> Now: did you use Glonass for this run? If yes: try without


----------



## scandium48

Im curious with this comparison above and others with the slight offset after the fact - and as an ex Suunto Ambit user and general Suunto owner (Vector, Obsersor, X9, X10, Core, Ambits) but now using Polar V800...yes, I do see a slight offset between your Ambit, and the SSU, but for you and all others - what was the distance difference? Was there such a huge difference during and at the end between the two that impacted your training and you missed your training target? Did you get lost during the run because of the offset, and were unable to follow your path leading you to be lost? Thanks.



Egika said:


> Yes. There is a hardware issue. The one with the antenna placement. The Spartan's GPS antenna is almost never pointed well towards the sky while running.
> The Ambits have the separate antenna bump that has a better orientation and probably more room for the antenna itself.
> 
> That's why also Ambit Vertical and Traverse struggle with when compared to classical Ambits.
> 
> Now: did you use Glonass for this run? If yes: try without


----------



## Xelo

Egika said:


> Now: did you use Glonass for this run? If yes: try without


Yes, we know about the Glonass offset issue, so he's running without glonass. The result isn't bad for sure, but for a precision junkie like me it's not good enough. My A2s is so much more often on track, but scatchy and ugly, so I have been planning to replace it since last summer.
So after months of thinking and comparing I'll probably go for a nice Ambit 3 peak custom, although I the Spartan is a really pretty watch.


----------



## Xelo

scandium48 said:


> Im curious with this comparison above and others with the slight offset after the fact - and as an ex Suunto Ambit user and general Suunto owner (Vector, Obsersor, X9, X10, Core, Ambits) but now using Polar V800...yes, I do see a slight offset between your Ambit, and the SSU, but for you and all others - what was the distance difference? Was there such a huge difference during and at the end between the two that impacted your training and you missed your training target? Did you get lost during the run because of the offset, and were unable to follow your path leading you to be lost? Thanks.


No, there is no big difference in total distance. Spartan always has a bit more distance and the graph is more jagged, not a straight line like the Ambit draws). And no, we do not get lost during our workouts. But when I have a GPS watch I want it to be a GPS watch and not a GPS +-30 meters watch. I personally don't like it when the graph says I was running through a lake when I actually wasn't. I like the Spartan a lot and I wanted it so much, but as accuracy is very important for me, it won't be my watch.


----------



## Egika

Xelo said:


> I personally don't like it when the graph says I was running through a lake when I actually wasn't. I like the Spartan a lot and I wanted it so much, but as accuracy is very important for me, it won't be my watch.


typical German mind )

SCNR


----------



## Jaka83

I noticed that when using the Mapbox display in Movescount produces slight offsets ... if I switch to Google Maps the offset is gone. Again the high zoom level on Google Maps again produces the slight offset.

Otherwise my SSU is usually spot on compared to the marked hiking trails I hike on and only has a slight offset (about 10 m or so to either side) when I hike in the forest areas (usually more affected by pine trees than leafy ones).

Generally I'm pleased with GPS performance and was pleased with it before the "big GPS update". What I crave now is more customizing and more data display during moves.


----------



## Gnarls Head

Does anybody now anything about this.
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1240408779360926


----------



## martowl

Gnarls Head said:


> Does anybody now anything about this.
> https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1240408779360926


My understanding is the next update is planned for today or tomorrrow...looks like it did not make today. I heard that HR graph, maybe other graphs and improved Recovery/Load information will come with the next update.


----------



## martowl

New version of SuuntoLink is out from 2.2.0 to 2.5.1. ....Update should be coming soon for Spartan. Release notes not updated yet.


----------



## BobMiles

New Movescount beta is out as well, as of today. Activity insight has been polished with some Bugfixes.


----------



## blizzz

Can not wait for update and people feedback. I am only interested on functions related to navigation.
I am waiting for Ultra be much closer to Traverse Alpha functions regarding navigation (find back - screen showing direction and distance , poi navigation)

Also storm alert and sunrise/sunset, moon phase would be nice. Maybe to much to ask at this point 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PTBC

Jaka83 said:


> I noticed that when using the Mapbox display in Movescount produces slight offsets ... if I switch to Google Maps the offset is gone. Again the high zoom level on Google Maps again produces the slight offset.
> 
> Otherwise my SSU is usually spot on compared to the marked hiking trails I hike on and only has a slight offset (about 10 m or so to either side) when I hike in the forest areas (usually more affected by pine trees than leafy ones).
> 
> Generally I'm pleased with GPS performance and was pleased with it before the "big GPS update". What I crave now is more customizing and more data display during moves.


At some point Google maps 'tilts' the view which produces an offset, switching it back to overhead fixes it


----------



## PTBC

I've bene pretty clear that for me customer support has been poor, others have had different experiences so thought I'd share my latest reply from Suunto support as to me it illustrates the problems I'm having dealing with them.

I had after the last update reported issues with GPS and auto pause, this is their latest reply

"We have found out that your issue has nothing to do with autopause. The GPS location is just inaccurate. We highly suggest that you use the Best GPS Interval on Movescount for that specific Sport Mode, synchronize your watch more frequently with SuuntoLink, and when you're running, make sure that there is good sky visibility."

Seriously that's the best answer they can come up with after a month. the first too I've done and that was included in the reported incident that it was 'Best' and that I had synced just before and as for the last one, well other than the obvious stupidity of the last comment about visibility the move I referenced was in an area that had no tree coverage and a clear view of the sky and that I had also told them.

Someone at suunto really does need to understand the difference between incident, problem and event handling as it doesn't seem like they do to me


----------



## bruceames

looking forward to the updates! Especially if part 2 of the customization update includes an option for 7 data fields!


----------



## bruceames

PTBC said:


> I've bene pretty clear that for me customer support has been poor, others have had different experiences so thought I'd share my latest reply from Suunto support as to me it illustrates the problems I'm having dealing with them.
> 
> I had after the last update reported issues with GPS and auto pause, this is their latest reply
> 
> "We have found out that your issue has nothing to do with autopause. The GPS location is just inaccurate. We highly suggest that you use the Best GPS Interval on Movescount for that specific Sport Mode, synchronize your watch more frequently with SuuntoLink, and when you're running, make sure that there is good sky visibility."
> 
> Seriously that's the best answer they can come up with after a month. the first too I've done and that was included in the reported incident that it was 'Best' and that I had synced just before and as for the last one, well other than the obvious stupidity of the last comment about visibility the move I referenced was in an area that had no tree coverage and a clear view of the sky and that I had also told them.
> 
> Someone at suunto really does need to understand the difference between incident, problem and event handling as it doesn't seem like they do to me


Well regarding the GPS the only remaining issue is with the offset with Glonass on (which only occurs in challenging areas). I thought I read somewhere that they are aware of the issue and working on a fix. Maybe it will come with tomorrow's update? But if not they will fix it at some point.

Regarding autopause, I never use that feature so I don't know what the problem may be. Personally I think it's kinda cheating to pause a move.  Besides, the GPS doesn't record any points when you're paused.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> Well regarding the GPS the only remaining issue is with the offset with Glonass on (which only occurs in challenging areas). I thought I read somewhere that they are aware of the issue and working on a fix. Maybe it will come with tomorrow's update? But if not they will fix it at some point.
> 
> Regarding autopause, I never use that feature so I don't know what the problem may be. Personally I think it's kinda cheating to pause a move.  Besides, the GPS doesn't record any points when you're paused.


It's not so much the actual issue, it's the response (or lack of) and failure to have read the incident information provided. As I reported that the autopause was in the wrong location either it was lagging in recording the pause or it thought I was somewhere else when it paused (time and position being the key variables), all they did is confirm that it was position not lag in detecting the pause, they did not offer a solution or say there was a fix coming that would help or even that it was inherent in the limitations of GPS technology. Basically they just blamed my use of the device (holding it wrong!) and suggested that I wasn't using the correct GPS settings and/or syncing properly etc.

I don't usually use autopause, but the route I was running was one of the few that was fairly ice free at the time and it had a number of road crossings so it was handy to have autopause for those, also the road crossings made good breaks for intervals and there isn't interval recording for running yet.


----------



## bruceames

So wow it's confirmed we're getting 7 field displays now?! How awesome is that!! Going from 3 fields to 7 is going to take some getting used to.


----------



## doowadiddy

bruceames said:


> So wow it's confirmed we're getting 7 field displays now?! How awesome is that!! Going from 3 fields to 7 is going to take some getting used to.


We've got 7 fields, they're working now!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bruceames

doowadiddy said:


> We've got 7 fields, they're working now!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


So that's from the watch update, or is from the Suuntolink update?


----------



## doowadiddy

bruceames said:


> So that's from the watch update, or is from the Suuntolink update?


I haven't updated my watch. Movescount has been updated, I was having a poke around and set up a few new sports modes and synced with the new suuntolink and there they were on the watch. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## bruceames

doowadiddy said:


> I haven't updated my watch. Movescount has been updated, I was having a poke around and set up a few new sports modes and synced with the new suuntolink and there they were on the watch.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Well I'll be damned. Great news. Hopefully my eyes are good enough, but the high res display should make it work for me. Will have to be careful though on trails since that's a lot of info to be staring at.


----------



## user_none

Up to 7 fields, and add different combinations of 3, 5, and 7. SWEEEEEEEET!

All relevant data on one screen, check! Yes!


----------



## zvojan

It is still not finished yet. You can not remove navigation, you can not add graph. Graph is only available on default sport modes


----------



## jhonzatko

Interesting, i still don't see this option on Movescount web. Only 3 or 5 per display.
But i see the option to add graph in default sport mode.
Strange ...


----------



## BobMiles

Probably the rest will be enabled after a watch update?


----------



## jhonzatko

Maybe. Hopefully we will see the watch update really today!


----------



## BobMiles

1ST MARCH - NEW CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS FOR SPORT MODES, GRAPHS FOR HR, ALTITUDE AND SPEED, AND POI NAVIGATION

New options for Sport Mode Customizations

now utilize up to 7 data fields per screen
new customizations available (i.e. 10s power, 30s power)
pool swimming: now customize your pool length

Graphs in factory sport modes (activity and summary) for Speed, HR and Altitude

Identify and save Points of Interest in Navigation view. (Phase 1 of POI functionality, Phase 2: in exercise)

New visualization to see and sync available PODs at exercise

Foot POD auto-calibration

New Daily (24/7) features

Added active & metabolic energy resources to show energy consumption from exercise & step count
Added daily total calorie consumption in addition to active calories
Weekly summary (+daily average) for energy consumption

Improvements/Fixes:

More accurate HR measurement
Support empty fields in sport mode views
Freeze altitude when watch is immobile
Most consistent HR tracking (reduction in examples of HR drop-outs)
Positive sport mode screens (white background)
Airplane mode now more clearly found in connectivity menu in watch


----------



## Lakerveldt

Now I'm a bit confused. Is this a watch FW update or a Movescount update? I've just synced my watch and it didn't indicate that the FW is (to be) updated. Many of the new features in the 1st of March update seem to be related to the watch itself.


----------



## northaholic

Information from Suunto's Facebook, the update will be available later today.


----------



## ws1972

Lakerveldt said:


> Now I'm a bit confused. Is this a watch FW update or a Movescount update? I've just synced my watch and it didn't indicate that the FW is (to be) updated. Many of the new features in the 1st of March update seem to be related to the watch itself.


Not ready yet, somewhere today it will be there


----------



## np31

user_none said:


> Up to 7 fields, and add different combinations of 3, 5, and 7. SWEEEEEEEET!
> 
> All relevant data on one screen, check! Yes!


And the user interface on Movescount for updating sports modes is now much better than before. Great job here, Suunto !


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Updating


----------



## bruceames

jhonzatko said:


> Interesting, i still don't see this option on Movescount web. Only 3 or 5 per display.
> But i see the option to add graph in default sport mode.
> Strange ...


Click on the small circle icon above each field to give you a pop-up box, that will give you a choice between number of fields. It's next to the trash can icon.


----------



## ws1972

Updated : first impression ok after a 9K run :
Like the Theme screen option in sportsmode : Dark or white. As white background is much clearer for people with "poor" eyes like I have.
HR graph in running is a nice to have as well


----------



## blizzz

Sorry for stupid color/material related question for different bazel options on Spartan Ultr like steel (silver) or titanium.

Does picking titanium also means better stratch resistance or just premium price for "special" material used and nothing more in therms of durability?
Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bruceames

blizzz said:


> Sorry for stupid color/material related question for different bazel options on Spartan Ultr like steel (silver) or titanium.
> 
> Does picking titanium also means better stratch resistance or just premium price for "special" material used and nothing more in therms of durability?
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Titanium is also lighter than steel. As a result, the titanium watches weigh 4 grams less (73g vs. 77g) Whether that and having more scratch resistance is worth the extra cost is up to you. I also like the look of the all-black titanium watch better than the steel bezel options, so that factored into my choice as well.


----------



## Jaka83

Updated the watch and after the first routine restart of the watch and sync after the FW update, the Sync would fail every time. Then I went into movescount and set the custom sport modes the way I like them with the new options (still missing some specific options for skiing - like downhill distance and so on) and after a painful amount of fooling around with the interface on movescount, the watch finally synced OK.

If anyone else is having trouble syncing after the update, it looks like you have to change some settings in movescount and then the watch will sync.

As for using the watch - it's still early for me to tell as I came home late from work and haven't done any exercising yet ... the weekend will show some results if the weather holds.


BTW, they still haven't fixed the issue with the double data readout from one sensor unit - talking about the indoor BT smart sensor with power and cadence readout that the watch can't receive, only one parameter at a time works. This was the only thing I had the time for testing. Please Suunto, if you're listening, fix this.


----------



## pavelito

I had the same issue with syncing....tried everything (reset watch, restart, reinstall Movescount on my iPhone...)....what worked for me was deleting my Spartan watch from my iphone connected bluetooth devices...after that I tried to sync and it went smooth...


----------



## martowl

pavelito said:


> I had the same issue with syncing....tried everything (reset watch, restart, reinstall Movescount on my iPhone...)....what worked for me was deleting my Spartan watch from my iphone connected bluetooth devices...after that I tried to sync and it went smooth...


The sync issues were due to server overload. Mine was failing earlier and is fine now.


----------



## davol

Hi New user, Just recived my ultra.

Have been watching the thread waiting for the Sunnto techs to improve the watch. I noticed my local retailer in Australia dropped the price from $1099 to $788 so I grabbed one, Couldn't help myself with the $300 carrot dangling in front of me.

Couple of questions for the Tech boffins.

I would like to have a white background on the home screen. Is this possible. I cant seem to find any options for that. Also in the latest update, 1.7.30, Sunnto has claimed you can have a white background in the "Positive sport mode screens" I can't seem to find those. Only the basic sport mode. Thanks for any help on these questions.


----------



## davol

BTW other than that I seem to be lucky, GPS accuracy whilst not the level of my $5000 gps in my boat is pretty good and my moves cycling are within a 30 - 100 meters in total length of the old ambit 2. Happy camper.


----------



## BobMiles

davol said:


> Hi New user, Just recived my ultra.
> 
> Have been watching the thread waiting for the Sunnto techs to improve the watch. I noticed my local retailer in Australia dropped the price from $1099 to $788 so I grabbed one, Couldn't help myself with the $300 carrot dangling in front of me.
> 
> Couple of questions for the Tech boffins.
> 
> I would like to have a white background on the home screen. Is this possible. I cant seem to find any options for that. Also in the latest update, 1.7.30, Sunnto has claimed you can have a white background in the "Positive sport mode screens" I can't seem to find those. Only the basic sport mode. Thanks for any help on these questions.


Hi! 
White background in watch mode is not implemented (yet). 
In sports mode, just scroll down on the start screen to access activity options. Or hold middle button during activity.


----------



## davol

BobMiles said:


> Hi!
> White background in watch mode is not implemented (yet).
> In sports mode, just scroll down on the start screen to access activity options. Or hold middle button during activity.


Thank you sir.


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> BTW, they still haven't fixed the issue with the double data readout from one sensor unit - talking about the indoor BT smart sensor with power and cadence readout that the watch can't receive, only one parameter at a time works. This was the only thing I had the time for testing. Please Suunto, if you're listening, fix this.


I am fairly confident they are working on this, talking to the folks at Stryd this is actively being worked on. I suspect they want it to work for all power devices and that might take a bit more time as the cycling power meters are certainly more complicated to implement than the running power meters.


----------



## Jaka83

martowl said:


> I am fairly confident they are working on this, talking to the folks at Stryd this is actively being worked on. I suspect they want it to work for all power devices and that might take a bit more time as the cycling power meters are certainly more complicated to implement than the running power meters.


My take on this is that it's a fundamental issue with the BT Smart limitation. I get perfect power readouts from the bike trainer sensor if I only pair it as a PowerPOD. But if I do that, I don't get cadence, speed and distance (speed and distance are calculated from cadence and the bike wheel circumference input in Movescount - which BTW has an offset factor by 10x in my case).
So each readout on it's own works perfectly (if I don't count the 10x factor offset for speed), but if I pair them both, only one works at a time. Judging by that, it's not the bike power meter being complicated ... it's just regular data being sent to the watch which the watch can't receive at the same time as cadence. So the watch should request both at the same time, like my cell phone software I got with the bike trainer is capable of (also over BT).

I feel like I've been repeating myself over and over in this thread. I can't believe the A3P users don't miss this feature of simultaneous power and cadence readout, as it looks like the watch has the same issues being BT "Smart". I miss ANT+. :'(


----------



## Egika

What is the difference between the G1 and G2 versions of the SSU? Right now I have two black ones in my hands - serial number 1630 for the G1 and 1632 for the G2.
Which one should I keep?


----------



## Lakerveldt

Jaka83 said:


> My take on this is that it's a fundamental issue with the BT Smart limitation. I get perfect power readouts from the bike trainer sensor if I only pair it as a PowerPOD. But if I do that, I don't get cadence, speed and distance (speed and distance are calculated from cadence and the bike wheel circumference input in Movescount - which BTW has an offset factor by 10x in my case).
> So each readout on it's own works perfectly (if I don't count the 10x factor offset for speed), but if I pair them both, only one works at a time. Judging by that, it's not the bike power meter being complicated ... it's just regular data being sent to the watch which the watch can't receive at the same time as cadence. So the watch should request both at the same time, like my cell phone software I got with the bike trainer is capable of (also over BT).
> 
> I feel like I've been repeating myself over and over in this thread. I can't believe the A3P users don't miss this feature of simultaneous power and cadence readout, as it looks like the watch has the same issues being BT "Smart". I miss ANT+. :'(


Well, I also think it's a bit anoying that the power meter reading aren't implemented properly yet. I'm using Powertap P1 pedals, which transmit separate values for the left and right pedal. The Spartan isn't capable of picking up these left and right signals separately. It only picks up the left (master) pedal and doubles the measured value. This became quite obvious when doing some single leg intervals on the rollers. Cadence is handled OK though. It get accurate cadence readings.


----------



## newtonfb

Does anyone know if the 2nd part POI feature the Suunto Spartan is getting soon calculate like the ambit series or follow a route you have in? I hate how the Ambit series calculates distance left by ?how a crow fly?s? instead of following the imported route ?


----------



## PTBC

Egika said:


> What is the difference between the G1 and G2 versions of the SSU? Right now I have two black ones in my hands - serial number 1630 for the G1 and 1632 for the G2.
> Which one should I keep?


There was some discussion about serial numbers etc. a long way back in the thread, my recollection is that there is no difference and there wasn't any noticeable issues with one vs the other


----------



## LONG_HAUL

PTBC said:


> There was some discussion about serial numbers etc. a long way back in the thread, my recollection is that there is no difference and there wasn't any noticeable issues with one vs the other


There wasn't really a systematic way to approach the question, since it would take several committed/reliable users to consistently test/verify issues/hypotheses. I think the topic was just allowed to fade out of focus over time. I would still be curious if anyone actually teardown both hardware versions and can point to factual/visible differences.


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> My take on this is that it's a fundamental issue with the BT Smart limitation. I get perfect power readouts from the bike trainer sensor if I only pair it as a PowerPOD. But if I do that, I don't get cadence, speed and distance (speed and distance are calculated from cadence and the bike wheel circumference input in Movescount - which BTW has an offset factor by 10x in my case).
> So each readout on it's own works perfectly (if I don't count the 10x factor offset for speed), but if I pair them both, only one works at a time. Judging by that, it's not the bike power meter being complicated ... it's just regular data being sent to the watch which the watch can't receive at the same time as cadence. So the watch should request both at the same time, like my cell phone software I got with the bike trainer is capable of (also over BT).
> 
> I feel like I've been repeating myself over and over in this thread. I can't believe the A3P users don't miss this feature of simultaneous power and cadence readout, as it looks like the watch has the same issues being BT "Smart". I miss ANT+. :'(


I understand why you miss Ant+, it is weird that this does not work for cycling, you would have figured Suunto would have this implemented. The curse appears having power, speed and cadence all in one device. It doesn't appear they planned for that, which seems like a poor choice.


----------



## Jaka83

newtonfb said:


> Does anyone know if the 2nd part POI feature the Suunto Spartan is getting soon calculate like the ambit series or follow a route you have in? I hate how the Ambit series calculates distance left by ?how a crow fly?s? instead of following the imported route ?


Can't say for sure, but would sure love to have it display the actual walking path distance rather than how the crow flies. It's the same with the vertical meters left on the altitude profile (ascent/descent left on imported path).

Spring is almost here and the deep snow and ice in the mountains will be gone soon ...


----------



## wydim

Jaka83 said:


> My take on this is that it's a fundamental issue with the BT Smart limitation. I get perfect power readouts from the bike trainer sensor if I only pair it as a PowerPOD. But if I do that, I don't get cadence, speed and distance *(speed and distance are calculated from cadence and the bike wheel circumference* input in Movescount - which BTW has an offset factor by 10x in my case).
> So each readout on it's own works perfectly (if I don't count the 10x factor offset for speed), but if I pair them both, only one works at a time. Judging by that, it's not the bike power meter being complicated ... it's just regular data being sent to the watch which the watch can't receive at the same time as cadence. So the watch should request both at the same time, like my cell phone software I got with the bike trainer is capable of (also over BT).
> 
> I feel like I've been repeating myself over and over in this thread. I can't believe the A3P users don't miss this feature of simultaneous power and cadence readout, as it looks like the watch has the same issues being BT "Smart". I miss ANT+. :'(


Jaka, I've read this sentence many times from you (in bold and red font). But I don't understand. How can you calculate wheel speed from cadence and wheel circumference. it's not possible ! 1st, the watch must assume that your pedaling cadence is at the max and matching the wheel (not freepedalling) and 2nd, from cadence and wheel circumference, you have to also input at what gear you're riding. It cannot work ! The same cadence and wheel will produce varying speed depending on the gear you're on.

please explain if I got something wrong

regards,


----------



## Jaka83

wydim said:


> Jaka, I've read this sentence many times from you (in bold and red font). But I don't understand. How can you calculate wheel speed from cadence and wheel circumference. it's not possible ! 1st, the watch must assume that your pedaling cadence is at the max and matching the wheel (not freepedalling) and 2nd, from cadence and wheel circumference, you have to also input at what gear you're riding. It cannot work ! The same cadence and wheel will produce varying speed depending on the gear you're on.
> 
> please explain if I got something wrong
> 
> regards,


This is the trainer I have... (not a product placement, just easier to explain like this):
Turbo Muin Smart B+ | Elite Cycling

In this video you can see that there is a formula for calculating the cadence ... for my model it's "wheel circumference/13,2".





Mine is a newer model and the sensor came built in, so I just had to input my wheel circumference in the mobile app and the app did the rest of the calculation. I tried training with the mobile app and just my watch and the numbers are the same, so I guess it works.

EDIT:
Here's a video where a guy takes it apart, so you can see the cadence sensor there.





And another video of the setup with a Garmin device:


----------



## wydim

my text in red:



Jaka83 said:


> This is the trainer I have... (not a product placement, just easier to explain like this):
> Turbo Muin Smart B+ | Elite Cycling
> 
> In this video you can see that there is a formula for calculating the cadence ... for my model it's "wheel circumference/13,2". This is for calculating speed, not cadence. If I'm not mistaken, if cadence is not a magnet or accelerometer attached or in the pedals (which it isn't on your trainer), it is extracted (calculated) from the ''irregular'' power curve generated by imperfect balance during the turning of the pedals by our feet (pulling up vs pushing down).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is a newer model and the sensor came built in, so I just had to input my wheel circumference in the mobile app and the app did the rest of the calculation. I tried training with the mobile app and just my watch and the numbers are the same, so I guess it works. Numbers are the same or it has a factor of 10x ? try entering wheel circumference/13.2 in movescount (instead of your real wheel circumference).
> 
> I'm sorry, i'm not solving your problem with BT and concurrent readings of cadence, speed and power. it really is in Suunto's hand, if your Elite app is able to do it.
> 
> EDIT:
> Here's a video where a guy takes it apart, so you can see the cadence sensor there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another video of the setup with a Garmin device:


----------



## Jaka83

I tried three different values in movescount BikePOD calibration section.
The first was just wheel circumference (2085 mm) and the watch gave me speeds x10. Then I tried the circumference/13,2 and the speeds were too low for the given effort ... pedaling like crazy just to have the watch read 20 km/h.
The setting of circumference/10 in movescount seems to be the closest to the real speed and given effort.

I read on the Elite forum that the speed is actually lower and the power output larger than it would be if riding on a normal flat road, because of the fluid and air propeller combination.

Yes, you are right that the cadence is probably calculated from the chain/pedal tension. The Elite manual is too confusing and sometimes wrong too.

But in the end, the Elite mobile app works OK displaying cadence, speed, distance and power from the same sensor. What kind of calculations it does in the background is beyond me. But one thing is for sure, it does have registers and protocols to send cadence, speed and power to BT and ANT+ devices. Suunto just needs to be able to read them all from a single BT connection.

Thanks for your input wydim.


----------



## wydim

Jaka83 said:


> I tried three different values in movescount BikePOD calibration section.
> The first was just wheel circumference (2085 mm) and the watch gave me speeds x10. Then I tried the circumference/13,2 and the speeds were too low for the given effort ... pedaling like crazy just to have the watch read 20 km/h.
> The setting of circumference/10 in movescount seems to be the closest to the real speed and given effort. I know what you mean. Don't worry too much about speed when you're training with power. When outside, for the same effort, you would be cruising ''fast'' because you would be on a small gear and the only force acting against you would be air resistance(on flat road). On the trainer, the simulated resistance is (likely) more than just the air resistance, it is also simulating a gradient, you are probably on an intermediate/bigger gear and that's why the wheel speed is lower. I would still get the setting to Circumference/13,2 just for the sake of trueness even if it makes you ''look'' slow. You are effectively raking elevation meters, but it's just not recorded. If you were riding a virtual route, you would know it.
> 
> When I was training with TrainerRoad (power based training), the speed and distance were also collected but they didn't make sense ! I was simply following a preset power curve (no wind, no gradient). I was literally not on a road, so why botter with distance. I was using a bigger gear because it made the trainer quieter because wheel rotation was slower. I could have used a small gear and accumulated more ''distance''. But I would still have reaped the same benefits from the same effort.
> 
> I read on the Elite forum that the speed is actually lower and the power output larger than it would be if riding on a normal flat road, because of the fluid and air propeller combination.
> 
> Yes, you are right that the cadence is probably calculated from the chain/pedal tension. The Elite manual is too confusing and sometimes wrong too.
> 
> But in the end, the Elite mobile app works OK displaying cadence, speed, distance and power from the same sensor. What kind of calculations it does in the background is beyond me. But one thing is for sure, it does have registers and protocols to send cadence, speed and power to BT and ANT+ devices. Suunto just needs to be able to read them all from a single BT connection.
> 
> Thanks for your input wydim. you're welcome


..


----------



## Jaka83

Yeah, I know what you mean about the adjusted speed/distance, but right now I rather have speed and distance displayed with a bit of a realistic skew than just power. Maybe I'll try to switch it up a bit and base my training just on power ... but then I have no reference for when I'm riding my bike on the road since I don't have a power meter on my cranks or pedals.
Will see what the effect from mild Winter training will be on my Summer riding. When I'm training in Summer I usually have sessions with about 800 m (2600 ft) vertical and 40 km (25 miles) distance and I manage that in about 1:50. On the trainer I usually do 5 min interval sessions for an hour.
But that is slightly off topic.

Otherwise, the 7 field display is perfect for cycling


----------



## mito3000

I have a few questions about the SSU:
- can you adjust the vertical speed in meter/hour and get the data of the average vertical speed separately for climb and descent
- I can not find the settings for the alert (tone, vibrate) when you override the max heart rate


----------



## Jaka83

mito3000 said:


> I have a few questions about the SSU:
> - can you adjust the vertical speed in meter/hour Not at the moment. and get the data of the average vertical speed separately for climb and descent Not automatically, but you could set up a Lap average vertical speed display parameter and when you're done going up, press the lap button and you'll have your separate vertical speeds.
> - I can not find the settings for the alert (tone, vibrate) when you override the max heart rate It is not there yet.


All your desired features are very useful and I hope they implement them ASAP.


----------



## blizzz

Maybe i am stupid but anyone knows how to shutdown SSU with buttons? Or maybe menus (did not check actually).

Thanks!


----------



## user_none

blizzz said:


> Maybe i am stupid but anyone knows how to shutdown SSU with buttons? Or maybe menus (did not check actually).
> 
> Thanks!


Besides getting into a service menu, of which I don't know how to access, I don't believe there's a way to shut down the Spartan. Maybe the three finger salute?


----------



## PTBC

blizzz said:


> Maybe i am stupid but anyone knows how to shutdown SSU with buttons? Or maybe menus (did not check actually).
> 
> Thanks!


There's a reset option, holding buttons for 12 sec or so, handy to have a watchface with seconds as the seconds or seconds hand will stop once you've held buttons long enough. No way to turn it off apart completly


----------



## alfling

Hello, I've been following this watch last summer, but then I dropped it because of the many flaws. Now, after all these months, how is it? Is it finally reliable and stable? I'm considering buying this or the new Garmin Fenix 5..


----------



## user_none

alfling said:


> Hello, I've been following this watch last summer, but then I dropped it because of the many flaws. Now, after all these months, how is it? Is it finally reliable and stable? I'm considering buying this or the new Garmin Fenix 5..


The SSU has always been reliable and stable. It's the GPS accuracy and features that have yet to be implemented that are hotly discussed and debated on the forums.


----------



## davol

Any news regarding the ability to read notifications? It's frustrating only getting a 10 sec window to check and then only part of the msg. Thanks


----------



## Egika

You can scroll the whole notification text. But it is there only a few seconds and old messages can not be pulled up again..


----------



## andythetee

My biggest annoyance is the almost imperceptible vibration for notifications. If I'm actually doing anything I almost never feel it. I've had a issue for just over a week whereby the vibration would seem to go to sleep and it would need to be made to vibrate a few times to (in "all on" vibration setting) to wake it back up. It was even changing from "all on" to "buttons off" on its own. After speaking to Suunto it was all ready to be sent back but for the last 24 hours it seems to be working normally again.


----------



## bryanredneck27

Aside from other thugs one of the basics Is the alarm... it should have more than one... I see it as a must but I guess I am the only one


----------



## jhonzatko

+1


----------



## gousias

+1000
The ideal would be to have more than one alarms adjustable and without sound but only vibration.


----------



## gousias

I was wondering, whether as supposed the Ultra model differentiates from the Sport and the Sport Wrist HR by the addition of barometer and the larger capacity battery, how come then they have more differences also in software?
I have added here a draft notice for these differences that I took out from SUUNTO's website. Any comments welcomed here in order to clear out things!


----------



## Egika

gousias said:


> View attachment 11223882
> 
> I was wondering, whether as supposed the Ultra model differentiates from the Sport and the Sport Wrist HR by the addition of barometer and the larger capacity battery, how come then they have more differences also in software?
> I have added here a draft notice for these differences that I took out from SUUNTO's website. Any comments welcomed here in order to clear out things!


From how I read this, the differences are just different words for the same functions..


----------



## Philip Onayeti

It would be good if Suunto could keep nomenclature standard across its range to allow better comparison.


----------



## Egika

Philip Onayeti said:


> It would be good if Suunto could keep nomenclature standard across its range to allow better comparison.


Right. Tell this to them


----------



## PTBC

gousias said:


> View attachment 11223882
> 
> I was wondering, whether as supposed the Ultra model differentiates from the Sport and the Sport Wrist HR by the addition of barometer and the larger capacity battery, how come then they have more differences also in software?
> I have added here a draft notice for these differences that I took out from SUUNTO's website. Any comments welcomed here in order to clear out things!


some of that is just odd, did wonder if some differences were due to new model features based on 30th March firmware, but doesn't seem so, the only watch that does not have real time max heart rate is the one with the heart rate sensor!
11 & 12 would seem to be the same feature labelled differently and why would the HR model would cause differences in the maps available in the mobile app?


----------



## gousias

@Egika: I would mostly hope that they have mistaken these and probably be the same, but then again I'm not so sure, I'm afraid that they have these differences as stated there.
@PTBC: I was wondering too, why they would cause differences on maps available in app for example. I hope they will clear out soon.


Do you think that it makes sense the Sport Wrist HR would have differences especially with Sport? For example see numbers 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8 ?
The most odd to me seems number 10!!!
I don't know what to consider for helping my choice!


----------



## Riu

Has anyone recently experienced any of the exercises from suunto Movescount to Strava failed to sync automatically? I don't know how to re-sync so I download the .gpx file and upload to Strava. I use SSUU with last update (v.1.7.30) and iPhone 7.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Riu said:


> Has anyone recently experienced any of the exercises from suunto Movescount to Strava failed to sync automatically? I don't know how to re-sync so I download the .gpx file and upload to Strava. I use SSUU with last update (v.1.7.30) and iPhone 7.


For the last two days, yes


----------



## PTBC

Riu said:


> Has anyone recently experienced any of the exercises from suunto Movescount to Strava failed to sync automatically? I don't know how to re-sync so I download the .gpx file and upload to Strava. I use SSUU with last update (v.1.7.30) and iPhone 7.


My move today hasn't updated in Strava either


----------



## BobMiles

Riu said:


> Has anyone recently experienced any of the exercises from suunto Movescount to Strava failed to sync automatically? I don't know how to re-sync so I download the .gpx file and upload to Strava. I use SSUU with last update (v.1.7.30) and iPhone 7.


Same here... I had to manually upload my activities as well.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Movescount problem apparently. Strava people aware.


----------



## Egika

PTBC said:


> If you swipe the other way it shows you planned moves you have entered in movescount site


How do I make this work?
I have planned two moves on the website and synchronized my watch.
Still if I swipe one screen to the right from my training overview it always just shows "Plan your training in Movescount"...

How do you get your planned moves to show up here??


----------



## alfling

user_none said:


> The SSU has always been reliable and stable. It's the GPS accuracy and features that have yet to be implemented that are hotly discussed and debated on the forums.


Doesn't a low GPS accuracy make the SSU less reliable?


----------



## user_none

alfling said:


> Doesn't a low GPS accuracy make the SSU less reliable?


If GPS precision is what you seek, then yes, it would be less reliable than an A3P. The reliability I refer to is the ability of the watch to not lose its lunch and dump workouts, or freeze.


----------



## martowl

Egika said:


> How do I make this work?
> I have planned two moves on the website and synchronized my watch.
> Still if I swipe one screen to the right from my training overview it always just shows "Plan your training in Movescount"...
> 
> How do you get your planned moves to show up here??


Sync with the cable, mine are not syncing with the app but they are syncing with the cable. If that does not work try changing a planned move and sync again. If that doesn't work a watch reset might help. I was able to get mine syncing with the cable.


----------



## bruceames

alfling said:


> Doesn't a low GPS accuracy make the SSU less reliable?


It doesn't have low GPS accuracy anymore. That changed with the January update. Although still not quite as accurate as the A3 (may never be due to the bezel antenna), it's now more accurate than any of the Garmin watches according to Fellrnr.com


----------



## Egika

martowl said:


> Sync with the cable, mine are not syncing with the app but they are syncing with the cable. If that does not work try changing a planned move and sync again. If that doesn't work a watch reset might help. I was able to get mine syncing with the cable.


You were right. Syncing with the cable did not help. After a forced firmware update (reset) and a sync now the planned moves show up...


----------



## PTBC

Egika said:


> You were right. Syncing with the cable did not help. After a forced firmware update (reset) and a sync now the planned moves show up...


I was syncing with the cable when I transferred training plans over, and it was just after a firmware update which fits in.

My replacement watch arrived today, as it's charging and syncing with the cable I expect the planned moves will show up, looking forward to trying it out tomorrow and hopefully better results, also had some promotional stuff, water bottle, pen thumb drive and bandanna hoodie thing and some very large stickers.


----------



## Pegasus

PTBC said:


> I was syncing with the cable when I transferred training plans over, and it was just after a firmware update which fits in.
> 
> My replacement watch arrived today, as it's charging and syncing with the cable I expect the planned moves will show up, looking forward to trying it out tomorrow and hopefully better results, also had some promotional stuff, water bottle, pen thumb drive and bandanna hoodie thing and some very large stickers.


Really interested to see if accuracy is better with this one for you, fingers crossed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## martowl

Egika said:


> You were right. Syncing with the cable did not help. After a forced firmware update (reset) and a sync now the planned moves show up...


Great, glad that helped. I had to do the same thing when I first received the SSU. By the way, I have had issues with Training Plans, I sent in a support ticket and 3 weeks later Suunto told me my issue uncovered a problem in the Workout Planner logic. They are working on fixing it. Hopefully this will work better in the future.


----------



## zx34

Is it possible to get spartan ultra to show the hr zones I am in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## martowl

zx34 said:


> Is it possible to get spartan ultra to show the hr zones I am in?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


you can see HR in real time but not specify zones....yet


----------



## SUPmission

Is it just me or anybody else missing the option to Invert Screen or adjust contrast on the SSU like that on Ambit watches or even Core. Without backlight the watch is almost unreadable for me.


Wind it up and let it unroll..


----------



## blizzz

Some new screens comming with next upgrade 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Philip Onayeti

SUPmission said:


> Is it just me or anybody else missing the option to Invert Screen or adjust contrast on the SSU like that on Ambit watches or even Core. Without backlight the watch is almost unreadable for me.


It can be inverted during a logged move.


----------



## davol

Philip Onayeti said:


> It can be inverted during a logged move.


I found the default was light background during a move. Much easier to see. Would be great to have that option on the home screen.


----------



## SUPmission

Philip Onayeti said:


> It can be inverted during a logged move.


Interesting. Where do you see that invert option during move?? Anything similar to Ambit to Invert to negative / positive screen?

Wind it up.⌚
Now let it roll..


----------



## Egika

SUPmission said:


> Interesting. Where do you see that invert option during move?? Anything similar to Ambit to Invert to negative / positive screen?
> 
> Wind it up.⌚
> Now let it roll..


It's in the options of an exercise. Scroll down to the options before starting it or hold the middle button while in it.
Then scroll down to select "theme" light or dark.


----------



## SUPmission

Egika said:


> It's in the options of an exercise. Scroll down to the options before starting it or hold the middle button while in it.
> Then scroll down to select "theme" light or dark.


Maybe due to me using software v.1.6.10? 
I only see Targets, Routes, Auto Pause & GPS Accuracy in the scroll down option before starting Exercise.

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## Egika

SUPmission said:


> Maybe due to me using software v.1.6.10?
> I only see Targets, Routes, Auto Pause & GPS Accuracy in the scroll down option before starting Exercise.
> 
> Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


Right. It was added with the latest release 1.7.30


----------



## SUPmission

Egika said:


> Right. It was added with the latest release 1.7.30


1.7.30???!!! 
Guess it's high time to upgrade firmware! 
Only had this for a week now. Should have read this earlier.

http://www.suunto.com/Worlds/Traini...ng-updates-for-suunto-spartan-and-movescount/

Tx loads for the tip Egika!

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## martowl

SUPmission said:


> 1.7.30???!!!
> Guess it's high time to upgrade firmware!
> Only had this for a week now. Should have read this earlier.
> 
> Upcoming updates for Suunto Spartan and Movescount
> 
> Tx loads for the tip Egika!
> 
> Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


Stay aware, new firmware with loads new features on March 30th!


----------



## Joakim Agren

martowl said:


> Stay aware, new firmware with loads new features on March 30th!


I can only read about the March 1 update on Spartan gets stronger page. Were have you heard about the March 30 update? What will be new?:think:

EDIT. Just read about the update, after the march 30 update what functions is still missing from the Ambit 3 peak? For instance there is still no storm alarm in the Spartan I think...:think: What about a temperature reading in the barometer mode?


----------



## martowl

Joakim Agren said:


> I can only read about the March 1 update on Spartan gets stronger page. Were have you heard about the March 30 update? What will be new?:think:
> 
> EDIT. Just read about the update, after the march 30 update what functions is still missing from the Ambit 3 peak? For instance there is still no storm alarm in the Spartan I think...:think: What about a temperature reading in the barometer mode?


I agree but the Storm Alarm probably appeals to a smaller group of folks. For example, real time power cannot be displayed on the Ambit unless you incorporate a workout, but is available on the Spartan. So some differences but after the March 30th update I believe the Spartan will surpass the A3P mainly because of how the data are displayed. (more info on screens and better interval workout info).

Beginning on March 30th we will bring another substantial software update to the Suunto Spartan Ultra, Spartan Sport, as well as to the new Spartan Sport Wrist HR.
The release will be available on March 30th to a limited number of Spartan Ultra and Spartan Sport and all Spartan Sport Wrist HR. Beginning April 3, the update will be made available for all Spartan owners. This process will help to ensure the quality of the updates released (If you have not received the update on Thursday March 30, you will receive it earliest on Monday April 3).
This release brings rich new functionality to the Suunto Spartan family including interval training, Points of Interest in exercise, and altitude profile navigation. In addition to these, we also bring new power-saving options, including low color mode and display timeout, as well 30 days/7days insight elements on Suunto Movescount.com. Specifically for the new Spartan Sport Wrist HR, you now have a new view to track your daily heart rate trend. 
We are sharing this in advance as there are a lot of new awesome features coming, as well as an updated release process and we wanted to make sure everyone is aware of what is coming. More details will follow on our social channels and suunto.com.


----------



## twelveone

Finally bit the bullet and got myself a Spartan Ultra (titanium all black hr). Got a great deal at £340, almost 50% off the rrp!, too good to turn down 

I'm hoping it was a good move to upgrade from my A3V and most of the issues are now ironed out, it sounds like there's been a lot of improvements with the recent updates. Will be putting it though a good test tomorrow morning with a long trail run - lots of ups and downs, lots of tree cover... at least the forecast is clear skies b-)


----------



## Philip Onayeti

martowl said:


> So some differences but after the March 30th update I believe the Spartan will surpass the A3P mainly because of how the data are displayed.


Depends on the end user. Spartan is aimed at the training/running user but marketed for outdoor user as well. Ambit still (but only just) superior in my opinion for out door use. Storm Alarm, full customisation, personalised apps, usable device when battery in low power mode, good GPS fix in challenging terrain etc
I'm sure it will get there but not just yet.


----------



## zx34

I'm really looking forward to the upcoming update! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## davol

Got some cool features already. I really like the feature where you tap the bottom of the screen during training and get a 1/4 screen with the time of day and battery percentage. Helps a lot when your hooking into it and want to know the time in a sec.


----------



## PTBC

Should be interesting to see if the new watch performs any better than old one, doing a trail race tomorrow so could be a good challenge, especially given we have heavy rain at moment and the course has tree cover


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> Should be interesting to see if the new watch performs any better than old one, doing a trail race tomorrow so could be a good challenge, especially given we have heavy rain at moment and the course has tree cover


Have fun and good luck, I have a skimo race in a couple of weeks.


----------



## zx34

I am so excited to see the new update the 30th or 3 April 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## PTBC

Much better, official race length was 5.37km and recorded distance was 5.35km so spot on, also looks good track, rain stopped but was overcast. Even the switchbacks look ok. Orange is course route and blue is move


----------



## SUPmission

martowl said:


> Stay aware, new firmware with loads new features on March 30th!


Well I tried updating my watch fm 1.6.10 to the latest via SuuntoLink but could not connect on both Mac OS or Windows. After back and forth chat with Suunto support, sending user log online, watch reset etc, they deduced that I have a faulty hardware. Seems like a known issue for some on 1.6.10

SSU is on its way to Finland. I might get a replacement. Hope it comes back with most recent software update and one that will connect w/o any issue for future updates. Looking forward to paddle out with it!

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## BobMiles

SUPmission said:


> Well I tried updating my watch fm 1.6.10 to the latest via SuuntoLink but could not connect on both Mac OS or Windows. After back and forth chat with Suunto support, sending user log online, watch reset etc, they deduced that I have a faulty hardware. Seems like a known issue for some on 1.6.10
> 
> SSU is on its way to Finland. I might get a replacement. Hope it comes back with most recent software update and one that will connect w/o any issue for future updates. Looking forward to paddle out with it!
> 
> Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


I had issues connecting with suuntolink on Windows as well. Watch would soft reset and windows gives a warning it can't identify the USB device. I tried reinstalling suuntolink, rebooting etc. 
However, what did the trick was trying another USB port!


----------



## anto1980

Before:





















After:


----------



## SUPmission

BobMiles said:


> I had issues connecting with suuntolink on Windows as well. Watch would soft reset and windows gives a warning it can't identify the USB device. I tried reinstalling suuntolink, rebooting etc.
> However, what did the trick was trying another USB port!


Heard about that. Direct USB ports and not via any hubs. Tried that on both OS and again with Suunto Tech support on phone. No dice. So they called it in.

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## Jaka83

@anton1980
Did you mix the pictures up Before<->After?
I'm a bit annoyed by the wear on the strap myself, but on the other hand I love the soft touch material of the strap - prefer it to the hard plasticy feel of the older models (A1, A2).


----------



## cerzet

Wiggle sells the Spartan Sport for about 300€, to certain countries (UK/Nordics). Couldn't resist anymore, delivery tomorrow. Not that I really need it, have a V800 and a Vertical, just wanted something new and don't really care for anything from the big G anymore. Well.


----------



## BobMiles

New update Info is out! 

Details for March 30 release:

New features

Interval training on your Spartan
Points of Interest navigation in exercise
Route altitude profile navigation
New power-save options in sport modes (low color mode and display timeout)
Power pod calibration support
Power pod crank length setting
10 minute and 12 hour HR displays (Spartan Sport Wrist HR)
30 days/7 days insight element on Suunto Movescount.com for steps and energy consumption

Improvements

More dynamic move summaries
Improved accuracy of energy, recovery time and EPOC calculation

Bug fixes

Fixed problem with distance in pool swim summary if pool-length changed during swim session
Fixed inaccurate (too large) ascent values from GPS altitudeFixed problem with declination synced from Suunto Movescount
Fixed time zone update (Turkey, Cyprus and Tonga)
Watch blocked after receiving notification
Fixed watch face preview images
Added missing icons to lap views
Language translation fixes
Fixed direction of heading arrow route/POI overview screen


----------



## Jaka83

Synced and no update notification. I'll wait until Monday for the update. Was hoping my weekend hiking would be done with the new update - can't have it all.


----------



## BobMiles

Jaka83 said:


> Synced and no update notification. I'll wait until Monday for the update. Was hoping my weekend hiking would be done with the new update - can't have it all.


The update is not out yet, so still a chance!


----------



## Pegasus

It's out now in the U.K. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davol

updating now in Australia 1.8.26


----------



## zx34

How do I find the new interval training future?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Cassote

Updating in Portugal


----------



## bryanredneck27

Out in Spain ...


----------



## cizi

So, the same here in the Czech Republic. But after update disappear all moves and steps in last week.. again .. the same happened during the last update.. so annoying :-(


----------



## Jaka83

Yaaay, updating in Slovenia as well.


----------



## Egika

cizi said:


> So, the same here in the Czech Republic. But after update disappear all moves and steps in last week.. again .. the same happened during the last update.. so annoying :-(


That's normal. And also a forced update is the only way to reset the watch.
But you keep all your moves in Movescount.com - just synchronize before.


----------



## cerzet

My new watch was on 1.1.24 and wouldn't sync in SuuntoLink, had to do a forced update. Got 1.8.26, so I assume that anyone that wanted the new firmware today could get it this way.


----------



## martowl

zx34 said:


> How do I find the new interval training future?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The Interval field is available in the standard sport AND custom sport mode exercises. You have a choice of 7 or 3 display fields, pick one, they are not customizable.
Start an exercise on the Spartan
Scroll down to options where you will see Interval as an option, select interval
In the next menu you can select the number of intervals, interval duration and recovery duration.
Scroll back and start the exercise.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> The Interval field is available in the standard sport exercises. You have a choice of 7 or 3 display fields, pick one, they are not customizable and are not available in custom sport modes.


The 7 field display is no longer available in custom sports mode?


----------



## user_none

bruceames said:


> The 7 field display is no longer available in custom sports mode?


It's still there.


----------



## Jaka83

martowl said:


> The Interval field is available in the standard sport exercises. You have a choice of 7 or 3 display fields, pick one, they are not customizable and are not available in custom sport modes.
> Start an exercise on the Spartan
> Scroll down to options where you will see Interval as an option, select interval
> In the next menu you can select the number of intervals, interval duration and recovery duration.
> Scroll back and start the exercise.


Waddayamean the interval display types are not available in custom sport modes? They are definitely available and are way cool. The only thing you can't change is the parameters inside the interval training displays. I think this update is sweet and can't wait to see what else they have in store for us. It's like Christmas every month. :-d


----------



## marcomueller

Jaka83 said:


> Waddayamean the interval display types are not available in custom sport modes? They are definitely available and are way cool. The only thing you can't change is the parameters inside the interval training displays. I think this update is sweet and can't wait to see what else they have in store for us. It's like Christmas every month. :-d
> 
> What? Whats going on? I have only 6 display types and no Interval types in custom mode. Can you help me please?


----------



## martowl

marcomueller said:


> Jaka83 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Waddayamean the interval display types are not available in custom sport modes? They are definitely available and are way cool. The only thing you can't change is the parameters inside the interval training displays. I think this update is sweet and can't wait to see what else they have in store for us. It's like Christmas every month. :-d
> 
> What? Whats going on? I have only 6 display types and no Interval types in custom mode. Can you help me please?
> 
> 
> 
> When you get the change display field as in jaka83 photo below select an interval screen! You will have interval available in custom sport modes!
Click to expand...


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> Waddayamean the interval display types are not available in custom sport modes? They are definitely available and are way cool. The only thing you can't change is the parameters inside the interval training displays. I think this update is sweet and can't wait to see what else they have in store for us. It's like Christmas every month. :-d


YES, I was wrong Thanks!


----------



## chomeo

Is it possible to display or track the total ascent or total descent during a run or bike riding?


----------



## Philip Onayeti

chomeo said:


> Is it possible to display or track the total ascent or total descent during a run or bike riding?


Absolutely. One of its core functions imo.


----------



## Jaka83

chomeo said:


> Is it possible to display or track the total ascent or total descent during a run or bike riding?


Yes,that is possible.

My custom outdoor cycling setup: 








My custom hiking setup:








I wish there were more parameters with some custom math functions to calculate on the fly. For instance when I go skiing I would like to know what the total downhill distance was, not counting the ski lift distance.


----------



## user_none

Jaka83 said:


> I wish there were more parameters with some custom math functions to calculate on the fly. For instance when I go skiing I would like to know what the total downhill distance was, not counting the ski lift distance.


Make a multi-sport and pause that sucker.


----------



## Jaka83

user_none said:


> Make a multi-sport and pause that sucker.


You mean pause it every time I do a run downhill?That is the manual option, but on the A2/A3 you had an option for downhill distance right in the watch with no pausing.


----------



## cerzet

dcrainmaker said:


> I just tried, it appears to wipe out the previous sensor of that type each time you pair a new one. So I had one HR strap paired, then I went to pair a totally different one. No luck, deleted the other one (or if it did save them both, then it was hidden from view in the Paired Sensors list). Then tried the same with bike sensors, same result.


Ok, I thought this was pretty lame on the Vertical, but the shortcut button trick sort of solved it for HR. Just got a SSS and it still has he same limitation of only ONE sensor of each type. Sigh.

I have three HR belts and two bike sensors. Multiple foot pods and even power meters must be quite common also. I suppose I need to complain to Suunto and just wait then or am I missing something here? Every other watch brand seem to support it and have so for years.


----------



## martowl

cerzet said:


> Ok, I thought this was pretty lame on the Vertical, but the shortcut button trick sort of solved it for HR. Just got a SSS and it still has he same limitation of only ONE sensor of each type. Sigh.
> 
> I have three HR belts and two bike sensors. Multiple foot pods and even power meters must be quite common also. I suppose I need to complain to Suunto and just wait then or am I missing something here? Every other watch brand seem to support it and have so for years.


It is true, only one sensor, which seems short-sighted to me.


----------



## user_none

Jaka83 said:


> You mean pause it every time I do a run downhill?That is the manual option, but on the A2/A3 you had an option for downhill distance right in the watch with no pausing.


Nope. Pause it on the way up. You're not wanting to record the ski lift distance, right?

Switch to the time only mode on the way up, then switch to the recording mode on the way down. Kinda like what someone would do for backpacking; record the distance for hiking, but to keep the move as contiguous you don't want to start/stop, so an activity within multi-sport that does not record any sensors would be activated while in camp.


----------



## Jaka83

Hey patronizing user_none, I wrote "pause it every time I do a run downhill" which to a wise person means when the downhill run is done, you pause the move and go sit on a ski lift. And as English is not my first language I would expect you to cut me some slack. No hard feelings.
As I said, I don't want to pause my watch during skiing and there are more possibilities to forget to start the activity again when getting off the lift - which has happened to me multiple times when getting off the lunch break.

While hiking it's a bit different, I just pause the watch when I reach the top or have a break for lunch then continue. If I hike for multiple days I just end the exercise at the end of the first day of hiking and start a new move the next day.

As for other news about the new firmware, I like the vertical navigation display and the battery saving option with the low color display. I noticed a problem/bug with the regular navigation display tho. Sometimes it gets stuck at one position and doesn't update. The screen does not freeze as it's obviously rotating when one walks around in different directions, it just doesn't "go forward" on the path. The issue goes away when you switch the screen a couple of times.
Tomorrow I'll check if the problem is persistent or was just a g-glitch. Maybe someone else that uses navigation can check it as well.


----------



## user_none

Jaka83 said:


> Hey patronizing user_none, I wrote "pause it every time I do a run downhill" which to a wise person means when the downhill run is done, you pause the move and go sit on a ski lift. And as English is not my first language I would expect you to cut me some slack. No hard feelings.
> As I said, I don't want to pause my watch during skiing and there are more possibilities to forget to start the activity again when getting off the lift - which has happened to me multiple times when getting off the lunch break.
> 
> While hiking it's a bit different, I just pause the watch when I reach the top or have a break for lunch then continue. If I hike for multiple days I just end the exercise at the end of the first day of hiking and start a new move the next day.
> 
> As for other news about the new firmware, I like the vertical navigation display and the battery saving option with the low color display. I noticed a problem/bug with the regular navigation display tho. Sometimes it gets stuck at one position and doesn't update. The screen does not freeze as it's obviously rotating when one walks around in different directions, it just doesn't "go forward" on the path. The issue goes away when you switch the screen a couple of times.
> Tomorrow I'll check if the problem is persistent or was just a g-glitch. Maybe someone else that uses navigation can check it as well.


Maybe I'm not understanding you properly, and I'm not meaning to come across as patronizing. It could also be that I don't ski so I'm not familiar with what you'd like to achieve.

What I was suggesting is to, in effect, pause it on the way up and unpause on the way down. You're only wanting to record the actual downhill skiing, right?

edit: Have you not setup and used the multi-sport capabilities?


----------



## martowl

user_none said:


> Maybe I'm not understanding you properly, and I'm not meaning to come across as patronizing. It could also be that I don't ski so I'm not familiar with what you'd like to achieve.
> 
> What I was suggesting is to, in effect, pause it on the way up and unpause on the way down. You're only wanting to record the actual downhill skiing, right?
> 
> edit: Have you not setup and used the multi-sport capabilities?


While you solution will work, a hill counter and ignoring the vertical should be something that could be incorporated. Garmin devices have a specific ski mode that does this. There were several apps for the Ambits that attempted something similar.


----------



## Jaka83

martowl said:


> While you solution will work, a hill counter and ignoring the vertical should be something that could be incorporated. Garmin devices have a specific ski mode that does this. There were several apps for the Ambits that attempted something similar.


Exactly, this app is great and sadly there is no option for this on the Ultra.
http://www.movescount.com/apps/app10022290-Downhill_Stats?_ga=1.67077486.1182232659.1479541935
I would guess they'd implement some native "functions" or extra parameters for certain popular sports. The app code is right there, it just needs some compiling for the new platform, but the logic is there.
And as I said before, pausing and resuming during runs is a no no because sooner or later you forget because you're distracted by something and then the OCD side takes over and you are pissed for the rest of the day. 

Did some more hiking today and I must say I really like the vertical profile navigation. And I don't know if this option was here on the previous update, but while you're on the navigation screen during an exercise (or just navigating) you can press the middle button for a second and the screen displays "Zoom" and a + and - circle for the top and bottom button and you can set a manual zoom level. And I finally saved my first POI from the watch, the way I used to do it on the old Ambit. Next time I'll test how POI navigation actually works.
The route freeze bug is still there and seems to happen when you swipe backwards from the vertical profile navigation to top-down standard navigation. It goes away totally random while switching through screens.

Other than that, the update looks good.

Next week, if the weather permits it, I'll do more cycling and see how the update works for that.


----------



## cizi

Jaka83 said:


> Exactly, this app is great and sadly there is no option for this on the Ultra.
> Downhill Stats - App at Movescount.com
> I would guess they'd implement some native "functions" or extra parameters for certain popular sports. The app code is right there, it just needs some compiling for the new platform, but the logic is there.
> And as I said before, pausing and resuming during runs is a no no because sooner or later you forget because you're distracted by something and then the OCD side takes over and you are pissed for the rest of the day.
> 
> Did some more hiking today and I must say I really like the vertical profile navigation. And I don't know if this option was here on the previous update, but while you're on the navigation screen during an exercise (or just navigating) you can press the middle button for a second and the screen displays "Zoom" and a + and - circle for the top and bottom button and you can set a manual zoom level. And I finally saved my first POI from the watch, the way I used to do it on the old Ambit. Next time I'll test how POI navigation actually works.
> The route freeze bug is still there and seems to happen when you swipe backwards from the vertical profile navigation to top-down standard navigation. It goes away totally random while switching through screens.
> 
> Other than that, the update looks good.
> 
> Next week, if the weather permits it, I'll do more cycling and see how the update works for that.


Hey there, yesterday I did mountain biking with saved course and I had the same problem. On the navigation map the point stuck on one place. I moved it to next screen and went back and the point moved but didn't moving during the my ride. Then the watch completely stuck and freeze, then restart came and I had to start new workout. Quite buggy but the second attempt worked great and the point on the route didn't stuck at all. Vertical profile is really great!


----------



## Jaka83

My watch didn't freeze at any point in the last two hikes I did and my navigation screen became unstuck at some random point, but I did cycle the screens around with buttons and touch and then left the watch at one of my custom 7 field displays, then after some time I checked the navigation screen and it was working properly again.
Good to know that it's not just my watch and sorry to hear you had to restart the exercise.

I really like the navigation implementation with the roll-up options display. The watch is becoming very enjoyable to use.


----------



## Cassote

Anyone having problems to create POI's in the Watch and then synchronizing them in pc ?


----------



## Jaka83

Only created one POI in watch while hiking and it synced OK - I can't see it in the map section, but it's there in the watch settings - navigation section.


----------



## Cassote

I've created some on the Watch , and I ALWAYS have an error while syncing to the pc ... if I sync through my phone , it syncs but the POI is not uploaded ..


----------



## martowl

cizi said:


> Hey there, yesterday I did mountain biking with saved course and I had the same problem. On the navigation map the point stuck on one place. I moved it to next screen and went back and the point moved but didn't moving during the my ride. Then the watch completely stuck and freeze, then restart came and I had to start new workout. Quite buggy but the second attempt worked great and the point on the route didn't stuck at all. Vertical profile is really great!


There are suggestions that having Autolap on may be the culprit. If you have Autolap on turn it off and see if you get the same lockup. I never use autolap and have not had my navigation freeze yet.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Re. how POI navigation works... Already got there, but still have quite a few other things to show yet, having recently started doing a Suunto Spartan (Ultra) Manual / How-to

Remember that nav uses compass or GPS and acts differently depending on that.


----------



## Jaka83

martowl said:


> There are suggestions that having Autolap on may be the culprit. If you have Autolap on turn it off and see if you get the same lockup. I never use autolap and have not had my navigation freeze yet.


I don't use autolap and the navigation freezes anyway. Will try to delete my custom sport modes and create new ones if that helps.
I noticed one more thing on my last bike ride - the navigation screen was updating breadcrumbs roughly every two seconds and would "jump" to a new point with a straight line of breadcrumbs leading to the previous point. It was most noticeable on turns where the breadcrumb trail would cut the corners significantly. The GPS track looks totally fine in movescount tho.


----------



## aldburg

I see the graphs for the generic sport mode settings but is there any way to add a graph to a custom sport mode?


----------



## davol

I created a poi just to gauge the accuracy. Out side my place next to the letter box. Transferred the co-ordinates into charting software to check them out and was within a meter. Good enough for me.


----------



## zvojan

aldburg said:


> I see the graphs for the generic sport mode settings but is there any way to add a graph to a custom sport mode?


No!


----------



## slachizh

Hello! Is it possible to connect Suunto Foot Pod Mini to Spartan???


----------



## MoLu

Probably not. To my knowledge the Footpod Mini transmits via ANT, while the Spartan only supports BLE.


----------



## slachizh

Thanks for answer! Maybe anybody will advice which Foot Pod better to use with Spartan for indoor running?


----------



## Egika

Any foot pod with Bluetooth. A discontinued low cost version would be the Adidas speedcell. Up to date low cost version would be the MilestonePod. More expensive variants: Stryd

Here's an overview: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Running_Sensors


----------



## aldburg

zvojan said:


> No!


Disappointing :\


----------



## martowl

aldburg said:


> Disappointing :\


For indoor running the Adidas miCoach should be cheap online. It works identically to the Suunto mini footpod. The Stryd is much better and highly accurate but is quite a bit more expensive...you get power with the Stryd and accurate pacing indoors or outdoors.


----------



## cleanton

I have Suunro Spartan and Suunto Bike sensor. I paired the sensor with Spartan. It blinked red and green a few times, but then it doesn't any more. I've replaced the battery but always the same it doesn't function. I appretiate any help...﻿


----------



## kriznaa

How to start plan moves when training plan is added on the watch?


----------



## kriznaa

on this picture have 5 zones heart rate. how to display on sport mode like that?


----------



## PTBC

kriznaa said:


> on this picture have 5 zones heart rate. how to display on sport mode like that?


The marketing material contains a number of (presumably) mocked up images showing functions that aren't available (yet, but hopefully soon) and has done since the watch was launched, this is one of them


----------



## PTBC

kriznaa said:


> How to start plan moves when training plan is added on the watch?


Not sure this is possible, you can view planned moves on the watch, doesn't seem to do any more than that (e.g. no reminders). The documentation on Suunto support has been updated for latest firmware, don't recall seeing anything on there though


----------



## AirVetra

Hi, just gor my SSU and owned Stryd Pioneer - how to pair them to get power and all other metrics like GCT and VO? Thanks!


----------



## gousias

PTBC said:


> The marketing material contains a number of (presumably) mocked up images showing functions that aren't available (yet, but hopefully soon) and has done since the watch was launched, this is one of them


Seriously now, wouldn't that be a fraud? Purchasing a product with hopes to evolve?


----------



## Jaka83

AirVetra said:


> Hi, just gor my SSU and owned Stryd Pioneer - how to pair them to get power and all other metrics like GCT and VO? Thanks!


They are still working on that. You'll have to do either without power or without other metrics for now. It's the same for smart indoor trainers.


----------



## Jaka83

gousias said:


> Seriously now, wouldn't that be a fraud? Purchasing a product with hopes to evolve?


They don't state those features in the feature list and I bet the disclaimer says the pictures are symbolic. Not nice tho, I agree and it's something they have to work on.


----------



## AirVetra

Jaka83 said:


> They are still working on that. You'll have to do either without power or without other metrics for now. It's the same for smart indoor trainers.


Sorry, and what profile to use? HR sensor? Power pod?


----------



## Jaka83

If you want just power, then pair it like a power POD, otherwise pair it as a foot POD. In the first scenario you won't get cadence, speed/pace, distance, etc. from the Stryd, in the second scenario you won't get power. I don't have any experience with the Stryd, so it might be a bit different than my indoor trainer situation where the scenario is as I've described it (speed+cadence+distance VS just power).

EDIT:
Sorry, I didn't know you were using the Stryd Pioneer which also measures HR data. Then your problem is even deeper. It means you'd have to make three connections at the same time which is not possible. Someone at Suunto needs to make a pairing profile for the Stryd or similar product that reads all three data types from the Stryd or other smart sensors. I don't get it why that is so hard. If they can do it in separate pairing modes, why not make one pairing mode "to rule them all". As it is right now you can only have HR data OR power data OR data from a footpod which is just distance, cadence, pace/speed.


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> If you want just power, then pair it like a power POD, otherwise pair it as a foot POD. In the first scenario you won't get cadence, speed/pace, distance, etc. from the Stryd, in the second scenario you won't get power. I don't have any experience with the Stryd, so it might be a bit different than my indoor trainer situation where the scenario is as I've described it (speed+cadence+distance VS just power).
> 
> EDIT:
> Sorry, I didn't know you were using the Stryd Pioneer which also measures HR data. Then your problem is even deeper. It means you'd have to make three connections at the same time which is not possible. Someone at Suunto needs to make a pairing profile for the Stryd or similar product that reads all three data types from the Stryd or other smart sensors. I don't get it why that is so hard. If they can do it in separate pairing modes, why not make one pairing mode "to rule them all". As it is right now you can only have HR data OR power data OR data from a footpod which is just distance, cadence, pace/speed.


No Suunto fixed the Pioneer, only pair as HR monitor and power is transmitted. Do NOT pair as powerpod.


----------



## martowl

AirVetra said:


> Hi, just gor my SSU and owned Stryd Pioneer - how to pair them to get power and all other metrics like GCT and VO? Thanks!


You won't get the other metrics in Movescount but paired as HR monitor only you will get power.


----------



## Unperson

kriznaa said:


> View attachment 11513306
> 
> on this picture have 5 zones heart rate. how to display on sport mode like that?


Sadly this mode doesn't exist yet, just like setting distance as a target. I've put these two things (and some navigation features) in every survey or other contact I've had with Suunto so far. If you haven't contacted Suunto about this missing feature, please do so! They probably add things based on the demand for them and this zone view, using the bar around the bevel and colours to show what zone you are in, needs to be driven higher to the top of the list ;-)


----------



## winky

Hi everyone,
Any idea when the new update (or the SSU2) will be released and what it will do? 
Fred


----------



## martowl

There are definitely updates still coming for the Spartan. Since the release there has been close to one update per month.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

martowl said:


> There are definitely updates still coming for the Spartan. Since the release there has been close to one update per month.


It might even one day finally reach Ambit functionality ;-)


----------



## PTBC

Seems like it will only let me use google maps when reviewing a move if I've changed it to google in the map section first, don't recall it being that way before


----------



## user_none

PTBC said:


> Seems like it will only let me use google maps when reviewing a move if I've changed it to google in the map section first, don't recall it being that way before


I'm using Chrome on Windows 10 and can switch back and forth, but it does require a reload of the page. On the subject of maps, it looks like Suunto has enabled more views in the route planner.


----------



## martowl

Philip Onayeti said:


> It might even one day finally reach Ambit functionality ;-)


For some functions I think the Spartan exceeds the Ambit substantially. 
1. I am not at home, found a route, selected it to display in the Spartan and followed it yesterday. The trail was quite primitive and hard to follow. The zoom function on the route display was very helpful and something I always wanted on the Ambit. I think the nav functions clearly exceed the Ambit now. Hopefully we will get routeable distance between POIs when following a route...I would like to have that.

2. The ability to change many functions on the watch while recording, GPS fix, intervals, etc is great to have as the sport modes to do this had to be already synced to the Ambit. I find I use fewer custom sport modes in the Spartan and simply customize before I start.

3. The duration ring on the display is great. I told my wife I would be gone on a 2-3h run and a quick glance allows me to gauge how much further I should go before turning around.

4. The display, the display....what difference! I run without my glasses and I can easily see 5 fields without issues.

Overall, I think the Spartan is useful and I will take the Spartan instead of the Ambit now. A 7h run, 8:30h ski mountaineering race and 10:30h ski mountaineering day with no crashes and no problems.


----------



## Unperson

I've been on vacation for a few weeks so I didn't do any running, the temperature in the caribbean is fine but the sun would have roasted me . Did some swimming in both pool and open water so I checked out those modes on the Spartan. Pool mode seems good, compared to my girlfriend's Tomtom watch the Spartan did way better. But it told me what I already know: I swim really slow. Open water swimming while snorkeling has the watch struggling to know GPS position, not surprisingly as GPS signals don't penetrate water more than a few centimeters, but once I stuck my hand in the air for a second or so it picked me up again.

We were there mostly for some diving and snorkeling. As far as I'm aware the Spartan does not have sport modes for these and I wouldn't want to rely on the Spartan for diving anyway (I dive with a Suunto D4i) but the altitude sure gets messed up from a few shallow dives while snorkeling. I didn't get any deeper than about 3 meters but the Spartan reported me at a depth of 300 meters, I'd say that's a new free diving world record ;-)


----------



## hafizovtt

Hello guys!
I am newbie with Spartan Ultra. 
I found an issue: sometime my spartan going forward in the menu. So, it can choose the sport mode, or something by itself.
Unfortunatelly i couldnt post a link to the video  
Is it trouble of my own watches or firmware bug?
Thank you!


----------



## np31

np31 said:


> Question:
> The Spartan has a touch interface, but I find myself quite reluctant to use it because of fingerprints and smudges. Has anyone successfully tried protection screens or "liquid shields" that could help with keeping the watch clean while using its touch-enabled features ?
> 
> With only 3 buttons, I can only imagine that new functionalities will require using the screen for inputs (e.g. the recently added step counter summary), hence my question.
> 
> thanks-


I'll answer my own question here. I have bought a protection film for the Spartan Ultra and the results are really great when it comes to finger smudges. I doubt it adds much to the already quite resistant sapphire screen, but the watch just remains clean, and looks much nicer (I use it as an everyday watch).

The screen costs less than 6€ (shipment included) and is easy to apply. No glue or anything.

screen protector for Suunto Spartan: upscreen Scratch Shield Clear


----------



## gousias

Interesting your comments in my opinion, since I am already seeking one for my own and as I have already placed my question here before, the shop includes a large variety of protectors. Any opinion on recommendation would offer a great assistance!


----------



## user_none

gousias said:


> Interesting your comments in my opinion, since I am already seeking one for my own and as I have already placed my question here before, the shop includes a large variety of protectors. Any opinion on recommendation would offer a great assistance!


I purchase all screen protectors from the same place, and when available I go with the Brotect airglass screen protectors. They're glass, but very thin and really nice.


----------



## gousias

Have you tested more than one from these protectors?


----------



## Lakerveldt

Hi, I just uploaded a swim .FIT file, collected with my spartan in Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/961051707 . The auto-sync functionality between Movescount and Strava is somehow disabled. It seems that Strava now doesn't count the breaks anymore in the summary page and only evaluates the actual swimming time. When analyzing the laps, everything is still there. This is the way I would like to see my moves in movescount as well. Strava seems to be a lot more accurate with the data that is gathered by the SSU. All laps are spot on, while movescount is somehow struggeling with breaks and swim style. This is the same move in movescount: Lakerveldt's 1:04 h Pool swimming Move .


----------



## corben9

hafizovtt said:


> Hello guys!
> I am newbie with Spartan Ultra.
> I found an issue: sometime my spartan going forward in the menu. So, it can choose the sport mode, or something by itself.
> Unfortunatelly i couldnt post a link to the video
> Is it trouble of my own watches or firmware bug?
> Thank you!


Hej ! 
I also noticed the same bug and thought it was smudges. I noticed that on 1.8.26 firmware *did not have the watch before* after a few longer moves it started doing that and had issues going into standby basically acting as if you were using the screen the whole time. But I did not. Result eating up battery. I did a reset of the watch to when the screen was smudgy and here here the issue was gone.... until a did a 2 more moves .. Im inclined to think it is a firmware bug. Hope suunto fixes this soon its annoying as hell.


----------



## slachizh

yes, I can confirm this bug too, have it twice after 2 hours of outside runnings


----------



## davol

Are we due for a update?


----------



## aldburg

davol said:


> Are we due for a update?


That's what I am thinking


----------



## cerzet

Lakerveldt said:


> Hi, I just uploaded a swim .FIT file, collected with my spartan in Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/961051707 . The auto-sync functionality between Movescount and Strava is somehow disabled. It seems that Strava now doesn't count the breaks anymore in the summary page and only evaluates the actual swimming time. When analyzing the laps, everything is still there. This is the way I would like to see my moves in movescount as well. Strava seems to be a lot more accurate with the data that is gathered by the SSU. All laps are spot on, while movescount is somehow struggeling with breaks and swim style. This is the same move in movescount: Lakerveldt's 1:04 h Pool swimming Move .


Yes, the swimming functionality could certainly be improved, from the top of my mind:
1. Add a drill mode to the watch. A fast and easy way to switch back and forth during a swim session. Manual distance at the end of a drill, only time during.
2. As you say, only use active time for swim session average pace. Not rest time and IMHO not drill time either. Drill pace can be checked at the lap level, if needed. Show separate distance for swim/drills on the session level.
3. Add an easy way to fix swim style for the entire session and/or per length. Like, click style column, choose style from submenu, click.

How good is the Spartan in getting the correct swim time / rest time / number of lenghts for you? Ambit3 was very good for me, but haven't been able to test my Spartan yet, injured.


----------



## Lakerveldt

Hi, I must say that appart from the drills, the watch captures swimming quite well. Swim time and pauses are rather spot on. As mentioned, Strava is evaluating the caught data better than Movescount. Swim style is something different. My free style technique is often recognized as butterfly. On the Ambits, I could teach the watch my swimming style.


----------



## MoLu

aldburg said:


> That's what I am thinking


By that you mean that you hope for one in the near future, or that you are aware of something indicating that there really is something happening, like something associated with their website, Movescount or similar (that I simply couldn't find any information about)?
Like the Apple website usually is down before they announce a new product etc...


----------



## Jaka83

I can't find anything indicating that there will be an update. The website that used to show what's coming has been stagnant since March 30th and no word of things to come. There are a couple of bugs people are reporting (including myself).

Let's hope the update comes soon.


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> I can't find anything indicating that there will be an update. The website that used to show what's coming has been stagnant since March 30th and no word of things to come. There are a couple of bugs people are reporting (including myself).
> 
> Let's hope the update comes soon.


You won't find anything but I can say there is one coming. Too soon for Suunto to announce dates yet.


----------



## SUPmission

martowl said:


> You won't find anything but I can say there is one coming. Too soon for Suunto to announce dates yet.


All this while I'm slowly selling off my SSUs to replace em with fully functioning A3Ps... I own 2 which I planned to use for 5 days of ultra training / competition. It's sudden signal drop out after 2nd hr of race/training is a bug that should not even exist.

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## sb029111

martowl said:


> You won't find anything but I can say there is one coming. Too soon for Suunto to announce dates yet.


I'm sure there's going to be updates ongoing, what I would honestly like to figure out if "my pet peeves" will be addressed or not.. Doesn't everyone wonder this? I just received my SSWHR earlier in the week, and I've got to say that "so far" I'm very pleased. I have used it with the chest strap, a Smart Sensor, and the graphs are as expected, wonderful. Then, needing to calibrate a footpod, but not being able to run, I decided to take a walk around one of the little walking paths that we have in the city, and well, I was really impressed, both with the GPS track, and with the Wrist Heart Rate performance. Here's what that one looked like:

oeagleo's 0:19 h Walking Move

I am almost ready to return the fenix 5, and keep the SSWHR, as I don't see a lot of difference in the things that I use the watch for, only for the "all day heart rate", and Sleep tracking. The first night, I noticed that the watch had "gone to sleep", and didn't record heart rate for a period overnight. I did see this in the manual, so it wasn't unexpected. However, today, I noticed that the watch did, indeed record heart rate through the night, so I was pleasantly surprised. Other than that, I'm totally pleased with this unit's performance.
Just my 2c worth, but once again, I'm sure that Suunto will continue to improve, and add to this device.


----------



## bcalvanese

martowl said:


> You won't find anything but I can say there is one coming. Too soon for Suunto to announce dates yet.


Yeah. Unlike Garmin, Suunto makes sure their releases actually work before they release them. I would much rather wait for something that works.


----------



## PTBC

bcalvanese said:


> Yeah. Unlike Garmin, Suunto makes sure their releases actually work before they release them. I would much rather wait for something that works.


Unfortunately not always true for the Spartan range, unless you mean they don't totally brick the device or cause crashing which they do a good job of avoiding


----------



## bcalvanese

PTBC said:


> Unfortunately not always true for the Spartan range, unless you mean they don't totally brick the device or cause crashing which they do a good job of avoiding


nothing is totally bug free.

What i mean is for the most part Suunto releases work.

Garmin releases don't, and usually break other things that worked previosely. Then when they released the F5 it seemed like all the issues with the previous F series just carried right over.

I am compulsive and love gadgets, so I jumped the gun too soon on the F5 and wound up returning it for the Spartan Ultra.


----------



## aldburg

Having serious accuracy problems today with GLONASS turned on. Purple is the path I ran and on the way back, you can see the Spartan completely lost. Going to keep GLONASS off for a few runs and see how it performs.


----------



## Lakerveldt

It seems that a FW update is due for the beginning of June. Quote Suunto on FB:

"_We continue to work full speed ahead on Spartan development and are excited to share that there will be a new software update available around the beginning of June. The last details are coming together, but these are the headline features and enhancements that will be available with the new release:__- Start planned Moves on your Spartan
- Triathlon mode customization 
- Find back navigation
- 30-day activity sync after software update
- Notifications for daily activity targets (steps and calories)_
_- Enhancements to watch-app connectivity (pairing and sync improvements)
- Additional bug fixes and performance improvements"_


Lets hope that these bug fixes include better communication with my P1 power meter. As the watch doesn't connect to each pedal seperately.


----------



## gousias

Very minor changes if it will be such after all in my opinion. Still many things to wait for, possibly will never come with this range of model, maybe with a Spartan 2! I can only say that I'm disappointed from waiting all the time for something to be fixed. Not to mention that they have implemented only very basic notifications of course with bugs.


----------



## SUPmission

Lakerveldt said:


> It seems that a FW update is due for the beginning of June.
> 
> Lets hope that these bug fixes include better communication with my P1 power meter. As the watch doesn't connect to each pedal seperately.


Spartan is the most unfriendly GPS watch right now when it comes to bluetooth pairing with 3rd party BT sensors. I've been requesting support for my canoe cadence sensor since I got this watch. Support team doesn't seem to be taking any urgency to fix this things.. I've just tried it with Garmin 5X and there it connects without a problem. Also 100% with my previous Ambit3. At times the BT connection even give problems connecting with movescount app on both iOS or Android smartphone. They need to up their game on this.

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## Egika

While canoeing - doesn't the watch itself measure the cadence? Why is a separate sensor necessary?


----------



## jhonzatko

Lakerveldt said:


> It seems that a FW update is due for the beginning of June. Quote Suunto on FB:
> 
> "_We continue to work full speed ahead on Spartan development and are excited to share that there will be a new software update available around the beginning of June. The last details are coming together, but these are the headline features and enhancements that will be available with the new release:__- Start planned Moves on your Spartan
> - Triathlon mode customization
> - Find back navigation
> - 30-day activity sync after software update
> - Notifications for daily activity targets (steps and calories)_
> _- Enhancements to watch-app connectivity (pairing and sync improvements)
> - Additional bug fixes and performance improvements"_
> 
> 
> Lets hope that these bug fixes include better communication with my P1 power meter. As the watch doesn't connect to each pedal seperately.


I can't believe that after almost one year of development this new top model miss so many functions of its predecessor.
It was a big mistake to sell my beloved A3P Sapphire


----------



## sb029111

aldburg said:


> View attachment 11783090
> 
> 
> Having serious accuracy problems today with GLONASS turned on. Purple is the path I ran and on the way back, you can see the Spartan completely lost. Going to keep GLONASS off for a few runs and see how it performs.


GLONASS is broken now on the SSU, it's a fairly commonly discussed thread, hopefully, they'll fix it before long, but for now, just don't use it. :-(


----------



## PTBC

It sometimes works sometimes doesn't with Glonass, I had it on then had a glitchy track and turned it off and last few tracks have been good, including around the lake that used to cause problems before.


----------



## PTBC

Agree about update I'm disappointed with the trails opening up that they don't have improvements to navigation features in the update and Glonass bugs mentioned above have been around for a while now though thats offset by the GPS improvements


----------



## SUPmission

Egika said:


> While canoeing - doesn't the watch itself measure the cadence? Why is a separate sensor necessary?


Not all feature is available fm the wrist cadence sensor alone. 3rd party apps enable more detailed live data feedbacks besides just HRM, Speed and Cadence. Similarly the need for hardware like Stryd for running (Power calculation) as Vaaká Cadence for canoe / paddling which provides more accurate Cadence / Distance per Stroke etc. When these hardware don't communicate, neither would the Movescount App.

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## Philip Onayeti

jhonzatko said:


> I can't believe that after almost one year of development this new top model miss so many functions of its predecessor.
> It was a big mistake to sell my beloved A3P Sapphire


I passed on my A3 for the Spartan and I now use my old A2 (2013!) for back country navigation trips ahead of the Spartan.


----------



## cerzet

PTBC said:


> Agree about update I'm disappointed with the trails opening up that they don't have improvements to navigation features in the update and Glonass bugs mentioned above have been around for a while now though thats offset by the GPS improvements


In addition to the June update list, there was a comment from Suunto last week saying "we are planning an improvement with GLONASS in the future.", whatever that means.

From the list I'd say that tri mode customization is a major improvement, ie. if you do tri races. I really hope they make the breadcrum screen optional for all sports modes at the same time. I never use it, but has to scroll through it every time I want to look at different displays. Highly annoying.


----------



## martowl

Philip Onayeti said:


> I passed on my A3 for the Spartan and I now use my old A2 (2013!) for back country navigation trips ahead of the Spartan.


Except for the battery life I much prefer the Spartan. While it does not provide alerts, the POIs are visible, the screen is better and there are many zoom levels. This makes it more useful for me than the A3 or the A2, especially when in places I have not been before.


----------



## SUPmission

martowl said:


> Except for the battery life I much prefer the Spartan. While it does not provide alerts, the POIs are visible, the screen is better and there are many zoom levels. This makes it more useful for me than the A3 or the A2, especially when in places I have not been before.


What use are this POIs in map when your watch is dead in 1/4 the time that the A3 gives. I switched fm A2 to A3 due to this battery doubling.. And with Spartan it's probably even shorter than the A2 at similar 1s GPS accuracy.

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## Egika

Spartan is not a replacement for the Ambit 3. It is a different watch. With different features and different battery run time.
If you prefer a long battery and apps: choose A3
If you like sunrise/sunset fishing/hunting features: choose Traverse 
If you like a sleek sports tracker with touch screen: choose Spartan.
All this give you like the Suuntos in general..


----------



## blizzz

Waiting for Spartan Traverse 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jaka83

I don't get what all the fuss is about short battery life ... do people really have 12h+ activities that can't be interrupted with connecting a battery pack? The "worst" experience I've had was when hiking for three days without access to electricity and I just connected the watch to a battery pack in between hiking days.
I get that some people do ultras and crazy/extreme things like that, but even those are a mouthful for the A3P (talking about the 24h and 48h time limit ultras). But most "normal" ultras end in about 13 hours which the Spartan Ultra is perfectly capable of if using the battery saving features.

But like Egika said, if you need more oomph in the battery department, just pick up an A3P.


BTW, when using the screen off function and GPS in the lowest setting my SSU had about 6% battery and about 1h 30m left on the hike I managed to finish and still had 2% showing at the end - managed to sync to the phone, then the watch turned itself off after displaying the "please charge me" alert screen. So if you take into consideration that battery drainage isn't linear, in my experience the Spartan is capable of about 40h of activity logging in it's most basic operation - I was still turning on the screen from time to time to check if it's still alive. But I think most people (me included) would rather see the display and check the route while in a move, so this was just a lone use case.
But still, Suunto advertises 26h of battery life with "good GPS tracking accuracy in training mode" <- their actual words, which is more than enough for most people.

Otherwise main activities with usual activity tracking times:
Hiking 3-8h but can span multiple days - battery pack needed for trips longer than two days
Skiing 4-7h
Cycling 1-7h
and the Spartan has been good regarding battery life.

Please share what you do with your watch that requires more battery life than the SSU offers.


----------



## buenosbias

Jaka83 said:


> Please share what you do with your watch that requires more battery life than the SSU offers.


I do trail ultras. My last one was Madeira Island Ultra Trail, 22h37m. My SSU, though it has become my most-of-my-days training watch, doesn't get that far. So I used my trusty old A3P, which I can charge on the run. I don't know a good way to do that with the SSU. I look forward to the days when batteries last longer than my legs.


----------



## Jaka83

@buenosbias
Hmmm, I've tried both - Ambit series with the "alligator" clip charging cable attached and the SSU with the magnetic charging cable attached and I must say that the SSU verson is 10x more comfortable to wear while charging the watch, not to mention more secure of a connection. But the most comfortable is not charging the watch at all, I agree.


----------



## gousias

@Jaka83
The point is that some watches turn out of battery from 35% and yes, battery life must be taken under concern. After all isn't this a serious equipment?!


----------



## dogrunner

sigh...
Yes, battery life does matter. I do trail ultras too and even a 50 miler can take longer than 13 hrs if it is a challenging trail with lots of elevation change or tricky footing. My Ambit 1 was insufficient, I still use the Ambit 2 and it is OK with reduced GPS sampling mode. But the recorded distance is not correct then and after being on the move for for 12-13 hrs I like to know if I have 1 mile to go or 2 to the next aid station or finish! I do NOT want to mess with recharging during an event like these. I do not have an A3P, although if I did longer events I would. Not all of us can afford multiple 700-800$ devices. And if I want some features not found on the A3P but only introduced on the SSU (breadcrumb trail), I still need the battery life of A3P. So short answer is, the search for a replacement for my A2 continues.


----------



## martowl

dogrunner said:


> sigh...
> Yes, battery life does matter. I do trail ultras too and even a 50 miler can take longer than 13 hrs if it is a challenging trail with lots of elevation change or tricky footing. My Ambit 1 was insufficient, I still use the Ambit 2 and it is OK with reduced GPS sampling mode. But the recorded distance is not correct then and after being on the move for for 12-13 hrs I like to know if I have 1 mile to go or 2 to the next aid station or finish! I do NOT want to mess with recharging during an event like these. I do not have an A3P, although if I did longer events I would. Not all of us can afford multiple 700-800$ devices. And if I want some features not found on the A3P but only introduced on the SSU (breadcrumb trail), I still need the battery life of A3P. So short answer is, the search for a replacement for my A2 continues.


I do lots of ultras too. I just tested the SSU with low power color mode and screen sleep. My short (not really ultra) 25 mile 6000' + vertical was 5h 12 min, I had 73% battery left and had a full charge before I started. That should give me about 19h so close to the running time ( I used best fix and navigation). I have found the quality of GPS track good fix on the SSU to be close to the best, probably good for ultras with clear view of the sky. So on low power screen save, the battery life should be what is stated at 26h. That will get me through all 50 milers and 100k races but won't be long enough for the 100 milers I do. The A3P would not last on the 100 milers either so if I want a better track and no footpod then I will charge. I will probably use a footpod that will last long enough for the 100 and just use the 1 min fix. I don't care too much about the track for a race and care more about the effort, distance, pace, etc that will come from the footpod. Then I do not have to worry about charging during a race. If I am not racing, I would just use a charger.

Anyway for me the SSU is not much shorter for battery. I don't look at the screen very often so having to tap or button press is fine. The screen is so much better on the SSU that it makes a difference for me for racing.

I will be using the SSU for a challenging 50 mile with 13,000' vertical (San Juan Solstice) that will take 12-13h, a 100k that will take 17-19h and a 100 miler that will be 28-30h (I plan to use a footpod for the 100, either Stryd if they can up the battery or a Milestone).

Hope this helps, I would hesitate to buy an A3P....I have one and an SSU. Wait until the June update for the SSU and check back in to see how it is. You can probably make a good decision then.


----------



## Jaka83

gousias said:


> @Jaka83
> The point is that some watches turn out of battery from 35% and yes, battery life must be taken under concern. After all isn't this a serious equipment?!


Sorry, I didn't quite get that ... what happens at 35%?

My point is, that battery life is perfectly fine for most people and as martowl wrote, it's OK for ultras too if you use some battery saving features introduced with the latest FW.


----------



## buenosbias

Jaka83 said:


> @buenosbias
> Hmmm, I've tried both - Ambit series with the "alligator" clip charging cable attached and the SSU with the magnetic charging cable attached and I must say that the SSU verson is 10x more comfortable to wear while charging the watch, not to mention more secure of a connection. But the most comfortable is not charging the watch at all, I agree.


Ah, this is interesting! My main problem with charging the SSU on the run is this: to get the magnetic clip attached, I have to loosen the watch strap, which implies lots of fiddling around. If I wear it loose from the start, it flops on my wrist. No problem for you?


----------



## dogrunner

@martowl
Thanks for the detailed response. All on point 
I have been following your reviews since you made the move to the SSU because your uses (and apparently eye sight) seems similar to mine (but I don't do 100s  ).
SSU has had my attention for a while, just have not pulled the trigger. It DOES have Ultra in its name


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> I don't get what all the fuss is about short battery life ... do people really have 12h+ activities that can't be interrupted with connecting a battery pack?
> Please share what you do with your watch that requires more battery life than the SSU offers.


My longest race was 200k (120 mi) ~8000m elevation gain (~30,000 ft) had 30h of continuous moisture including sleet/hail/rain and took me 40h to finish....yes I need more battery life. I was involved enough with racing and the weather that I forgot to attach the charger to my Ambit...I charged it and started the recording again losing about 30 min of the race. I have used a footpod in the past for long races and will do that again this year for the 160k (100 mi) race I will do, expecting a 28-30h finish time.


----------



## martowl

dogrunner said:


> @martowl
> Thanks for the detailed response. All on point
> I have been following your reviews since you made the move to the SSU because your uses (and apparently eye sight) seems similar to mine (but I don't do 100s  ).
> SSU has had my attention for a while, just have not pulled the trigger. It DOES have Ultra in its name


As I said, the next update should help you make the decision. Prices are fairly good now. There was one other issue I did not mention before and that is an entire planned workout can be read on the watch by scrolling. Some of mine have interval work or steady state efforts embedded in longer runs. The Ambit only shows the first couple of lines but one can see the entire workout on the Spartan. Planned moves will be implemented in the next update but I do not know how that will be done. I'm sure you will hear all about the update here on the forum


----------



## Cassote

Guys , since I'm seeing discussions bout battery life I remembered of a question . 

Does navigation consume as much battery as a move ? I'm planing a very long journey , and I need navigation . If I could pair it with a move would be awesome , but navigation is the priority.

whats your experience on this ? Thanks


----------



## SUPmission

Jaka83 said:


> I don't get what all the fuss is about short battery life ... do people really have 12h+ activities that can't be interrupted with connecting a battery pack? ...
> 
> Please share what you do with your watch that requires more battery life than the SSU offers.


A 220km non-stop standup paddle race which takes an average 32hrs to complete. I'd be dependent on the watch for day and night point-2-point navigation. Cold water splashing on the watch even on practise day is enuf to wind it's battery life to little hours. By now, I think few of us with the SSU already uncovered that the name Ultra is a sales gimmick. As colorful as it is.

From previous years races the A2 lasted 5hrs. The A3P 10hrs. These are at highest GPS accuracy using navigation route mode. While the SSU.. approximately 7hrs at best with average GPS accuracy and GLONASS turned off. SAD.

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## Jaka83

buenosbias said:


> Ah, this is interesting! My main problem with charging the SSU on the run is this: to get the magnetic clip attached, I have to loosen the watch strap, which implies lots of fiddling around. If I wear it loose from the start, it flops on my wrist. No problem for you?


Nope, not a problem for >me< since I don't run and can pause an activity to attach the charger.



SUPmission said:


> A 220km non-stop standup paddle race which takes an average 32hrs to complete. I'd be dependent on the watch for day and night point-2-point navigation. Cold water splashing on the watch even on practise day is enuf to wind it's battery life to little hours. By now, I think few of us with the SSU already uncovered that the name Ultra is a sales gimmick. As colorful as it is.
> 
> From previous years races the A2 lasted 5hrs. The A3P 10hrs. These are at highest GPS accuracy using navigation route mode. While the SSU.. approximately 7hrs at best with average GPS accuracy and GLONASS turned off. SAD.


Thanks, you answered my question. My suggestion would be to search for a gadget that can handle that kind of abuse, but I think this will be a long journey and you might come to a conclusion that many compromises will have to be made to achieve what you want. Obviously you're not the targeted consumer for this one.


----------



## Joakim Agren

martowl said:


> I do lots of ultras too. I just tested the SSU with low power color mode and screen sleep. My short (not really ultra) 25 mile 6000' + vertical was 5h 12 min, I had 73% battery left and had a full charge before I started. That should give me about 19h so close to the running time ( I used best fix and navigation). I have found the quality of GPS track good fix on the SSU to be close to the best, probably good for ultras with clear view of the sky. So on low power screen save, the battery life should be what is stated at 26h. That will get me through all 50 milers and 100k races but won't be long enough for the 100 milers I do. The A3P would not last on the 100 milers either so if I want a better track and no footpod then I will charge. I will probably use a footpod that will last long enough for the 100 and just use the 1 min fix. I don't care too much about the track for a race and care more about the effort, distance, pace, etc that will come from the footpod. Then I do not have to worry about charging during a race. If I am not racing, I would just use a charger.
> 
> Anyway for me the SSU is not much shorter for battery. I don't look at the screen very often so having to tap or button press is fine. The screen is so much better on the SSU that it makes a difference for me for racing.
> 
> I will be using the SSU for a challenging 50 mile with 13,000' vertical (San Juan Solstice) that will take 12-13h, a 100k that will take 17-19h and a 100 miler that will be 28-30h (I plan to use a footpod for the 100, either Stryd if they can up the battery or a Milestone).
> 
> Hope this helps, I would hesitate to buy an A3P....I have one and an SSU. Wait until the June update for the SSU and check back in to see how it is. You can probably make a good decision then.


martowl what is this low power color mode you speak of? I recently watched a YouTube review from RIZKNOWS for the Spartan HR sport model and he complained about the dullness of the display compared to the fenix series of watches. But you seem to praise the screen of the Spartan so now I am confused a bit here? Now when I read about this low power color mode, perhaps it is that simple that he was unbeknownst to him using this mode. Perhaps you can enlighten me about this?


----------



## Egika

Joakim Agren said:


> martowl what is this low power color mode you speak of? I recently watched a YouTube review from RIZKNOWS for the Spartan HR sport model and he complained about the dullness of the display compared to the fenix series of watches. But you seem to praise the screen of the Spartan so now I am confused a bit here? Now when I read about this low power color mode, perhaps it is that simple that he was unbeknownst to him using this mode. Perhaps you can enlighten me about this?


This has been added with the latest firmware. It is in the options of an active move and actually changes some of the colors. The readability of the screen and the backlight stay unchanged. They are great under sunlight and ok indoors with the backlight on.
The actual change in color basically involves the shaded areas within the graph displays to be solid or black/white color. All other information still have their normal colors.
I for myself see no reason to not use this energy saving feature as a default.


----------



## oli70

Joakim Agren said:


> martowl what is this low power color mode you speak of? I recently watched a YouTube review from RIZKNOWS for the Spartan HR sport model and he complained about the dullness of the display compared to the fenix series of watches. But you seem to praise the screen of the Spartan so now I am confused a bit here? Now when I read about this low power color mode, perhaps it is that simple that he was unbeknownst to him using this mode. Perhaps you can enlighten me about this?


The "dullness" compared to fenix could be because on spartan there is an additional layer for touch-input.


----------



## martowl

Joakim Agren said:


> martowl what is this low power color mode you speak of? I recently watched a YouTube review from RIZKNOWS for the Spartan HR sport model and he complained about the dullness of the display compared to the fenix series of watches. But you seem to praise the screen of the Spartan so now I am confused a bit here? Now when I read about this low power color mode, perhaps it is that simple that he was unbeknownst to him using this mode. Perhaps you can enlighten me about this?


The display IMHO in bright sunlight is great, the colors are very good. If you don't want color the display can be inverted just like the Ambit models but there the colors are much more washed out. I prefer the dark screen, it is fine for me. In settings to reduce the power consumption a low color mode can be selected that reduces the numbers of colors displayed (actually it is hard to tell the difference).

When dark and using the backlight the colors are not nearly as good and can be quite muted. Interesting as others with both Spartan and Fenix5 agree the display on the Spartan is much better (fellrnr thinks so too). The Spartan is 320x300 while the fenix is 240x240 so the detail is much better on the Spartan. I can read 5 fields without my glasses


----------



## SUPmission

Egika said:


> This has been added with the latest firmware. It is in the options of an active move and actually changes some of the colors. The readability of the screen and the backlight stay unchanged. They are great under sunlight and ok indoors with the backlight on.


Tx for the tip. How did I not hear about this before. Will try this soon. Any little bit helps!

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## martowl

Egika said:


> This has been added with the latest firmware. It is in the options of an active move and actually changes some of the colors. The readability of the screen and the backlight stay unchanged. They are great under sunlight and ok indoors with the backlight on.
> The actual change in color basically involves the shaded areas within the graph displays to be solid or black/white color. All other information still have their normal colors.
> I for myself see no reason to not use this energy saving feature as a default.


I am using it as a default for long races. I think with the screen sleep/low color enabled on good gps fix (which appears excellent and better than 5s fix on the Ambit) I will be able to get 26-30h of battery. I will test this later this summer in training runs and in the fall at a 100 mile race. (will carry my charger or switch to 1 min fix). If I can get close to 30h with these energy savings enabled I will be quite happy.


----------



## martowl

SUPmission said:


> A 220km non-stop standup paddle race which takes an average 32hrs to complete. I'd be dependent on the watch for day and night point-2-point navigation. Cold water splashing on the watch even on practise day is enuf to wind it's battery life to little hours. By now, I think few of us with the SSU already uncovered that the name Ultra is a sales gimmick. As colorful as it is.
> 
> From previous years races the A2 lasted 5hrs. The A3P 10hrs. These are at highest GPS accuracy using navigation route mode. While the SSU.. approximately 7hrs at best with average GPS accuracy and GLONASS turned off. SAD.
> 
> Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


Wow that is terrible, must be the cold. My A3P with 1 sec GPS fix and nav running lasted very close to the stated 20h in running races with rain, etc. I never had anything less than about 18h.

I can run for 32h but I cannot see how you can stand on a paddle board that long!!!!! I would have fallen off and lost my board then fallen asleep and awake while I was drowning.....


----------



## martowl

SUPmission said:


> Tx for the tip. How did I not hear about this before. Will try this soon. Any little bit helps!
> 
> Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


If you only need to look at the screen occasionally for nav, select screen sleep. It will show the last screen you selected by a button press. I used this in my last race. Might be difficult while paddling though.


----------



## SUPmission

Good tip martowl. How do you make these as default? And do the screen gets on automatic wake when you get to a POI for pre-routed navigation?



martowl said:


> I can run for 32h but I cannot see how you can stand on a paddle board that long!!!!! I would have fallen off and lost my board then fallen asleep and awake while I was drowning.....


Just like any other endurance race, this one is 200% a mind-over-matter challenge. Called Sup 11 City Tour, the event takes place in Netherlands for its 9th year now. It attracted 220 athletes from 27 different countries last year.. Many are returning competitors who originally did it as a bucket list. But the atmosphere is actually incredible that you're back following year.  Standard race is broken down to 5 days. But you can also do non-stop. If you love endurance sport, you should try taking part in this. http://sup11citytour.com/



martowl said:


> If you only need to look at the screen occasionally for nav, select screen sleep. It will show the last screen you selected by a button press. I used this in my last race. Might be difficult while paddling though.











It would drive me nuts not knowing my cadence and speed. And the last thing I want to happen is to get lost in the middle of the night without p2p navigation. 
I'm hoping folks at Getedgegear Shift would figure out a way to attach A3 or SSU on their genius hand mount for a quick-press than docking watch on deck. 
https://www.getedgegear.com/product/shift-performance-watch-band/

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## PTBC

Someone posted information on the screen awhile back, hazy memory but something long the lines of 2 layers/modes, a low power mode with limited colours and a higher power layer with all colours etc, it explains why certain colours don't persist when the watch is in sleep/inactive mode as only the colours in the low power mode will display properly. I assumed it was this function that was being used in the new power settings.


----------



## Jaka83

SUPmission said:


> Good tip martowl. How do you make these as default? And do the screen gets on automatic wake when you get to a POI for pre-routed navigation?


You can only set these as defaults in the custom sport modes for now, but the first time you use a default sport mode with these settings in the watch (setting them prior or while in a move), they will be chosen as defaults for the next move you make with this default sport mode. So in short, you only need to set it the first time prior to a move and the settings will stick. As for the POI navigation waking up the screen ... it does not do that and who knows if they will change that. I've done one move with the screen off option while using POI navigation while hiking and the screen and vibration stayed off.

While in low color mode, the graphs are a bit muted and it is most evident if you use the white/inverted background. Otherwise, the screen is excellent in bright sunlight - the more light you have shining on it, crisper it gets. For the low light scenarios, the ambient display option is great. I have the ambient display option on all the time and the battery life is fine. I think it's better than having the toggle light option on, as that will drain more battery in my experience. Might want to revisit that last setting with the newest firmware tho, as I've done the tests on the first firmware the ambient option became available.

EDIT: Just checked in movescount underwatch settings for sport modes and I was wrong, you can set these defaults for default sport modes too. I hope this helps.


----------



## AirVetra

Hi everyone! 

Is there any way to turn off the watches at all (lime any Garmin and Ambit)? SSU is going to lie down for a while and I don't want to charge them every week or so not to loose the battery?

Thanks!


----------



## Pexer

AirVetra said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> Is there any way to turn off the watches at all (lime any Garmin and Ambit)? SSU is going to lie down for a while and I don't want to charge them every week or so not to loose the battery?
> 
> Thanks!


I didn't manage to turn my Spartan of completely. Just restart by holding upper button for 12s (I think)

You can though toggle airplane mode to preserve power.

Btw: Afaik you can't even completely factory reset it. It's never going to give the same start-up options as it did when out of the box..

Skickat från min SM-G950F via Tapatalk


----------



## bobogu

A small question. Here is my setting, TONES All off, VIBRATON Buttons off. and I set a alarm but when the alarm started why the tones still on? I hope the alarm goes vibration only. is it OK?

Thanks

从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk


----------



## Jaka83

@bobogu
The alarm always gives out a sound. I rarely use it, but would like to have an option for it to only vibrate too.

One other thing that bugs me is the dual time setting. I set it once and now I can't find a setting to turn dual time off. If I set it the same as my timezone it just displays the same time as my main watch time. Does anybody know how to turn dual time off?


----------



## Unperson

Today's run presented me with some wacky data. My SSU and Movescount reported I ran 8.01 km, but it was actually 6.44 (I rebuilt the route on the map in Movescount). Not only that but my maximum pace is recorded at 0.11 minute per kilometer (beat that ;-)) and my maximum speed was therefore some 160 km/h according to Movescount. This is the first glitch I've seen in over 120 moves on the SSU so I'm not too worried about that. I've also recently started using the Milestonepod to get better pace data so maybe these two devices got into an argument. 

Anyway, I can edit the move in Movescount, so I set the distance back to 6.44 km in stead of the 8, but the graphs still show the glitchy maximum pace and maximum speed. Anyone know how I can correct that? Movescount also awarded me a gold medal for my new personal best of 16 minutes for 5 km, which I would also like to remove. I see a button for deleting that PB but I see some warning about losing data from the move which isn't very clear. If i delete that PB will it also delete the move or will it just delete that PB. Anyone know?


----------



## davol

I have received a email that update is available. Updating now from 1.8.26 to 1.9.36

Looks like a biggie. Taking quite some time


----------



## davol

I might be imagining this but the colors on the watch faces look more vivid. Anyone else think so?


----------



## Egika

davol said:


> I might be imagining this but the colors on the watch faces look more vivid. Anyone else think so?


They do so under bright light. But it has not changed with the recent firmware update


----------



## martowl

davol said:


> I might be imagining this but the colors on the watch faces look more vivid. Anyone else think so?


There are already 15 to 16 pages of discussion on this update...just look through the Thread topics, you will probably find most answers to your questions there.

Here is the link. https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/spartan-ultra-firmware-update-1-9-36-a-4420258.html


----------



## Skier2017

Hi everybody! 

New to the forums here. 
I have a problem with my Spartan and smart belt. When I work out, it seems like it isn't really tracking the heart rate accurately and it updates heart rate slowly. For example, I today did a squat session and usually heavy squats will push my heart rate to about 170 ish. Today it would just hover around 100, according to the watch. By my own quick count, it was way off. 

I tried to pair it to the iphone and it says it's on a 100% battery level (which also sounds strange, as this sensor has been used quite a lot, I don't know exactly, but my guess would be between 100 and 200 hours) 

Any tips on how I can get this sorted out? It's very annoying when I get erroneous data. It was working perfectly on a five hour hike this weekend.


----------



## Egika

Good contact to your skin is essential. Moisten the area of the pads well before your workout!


----------



## Skier2017

It's been working well for over three months without me changing anything. But I'll try to really soak it, to see if that's causing the issue. Thanks.


----------



## user_none

Skier2017 said:


> It's been working well for over three months without me changing anything. But I'll try to really soak it, to see if that's causing the issue. Thanks.


Some people will soak the whole strap in water before a workout. I've tried that and it doesn't seem to do much unless I continue to sweat. Sweat, or keeping the contact pads wet is the challenge. I don't know where you are, but I've ordered Spectra 360 from Amazon and it works very well.

Spectra 360: https://www.amazon.com/Parker-Labor...F8&qid=1498487523&sr=8-1&keywords=spectra+360

And I just found this: https://www.amazon.com/Parker-W6069...F8&qid=1498487523&sr=8-2&keywords=spectra+360


----------



## margusl

DCR had a nice article on HRM issues - https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/04/troubleshooting-your-heart-rate.html 
For winter runs and xc skiing I had a lot more issues with Suunto Smart Sensor and Ambit3 than I had with older Comfort belt (ANT) and Ambit1, so I guess it is more affected by statics from synthetic clothing in dry climate. In addition to regularly washing the belt and moistening electrodes, I had to soak my shirt near belt to get rid of HR spikes at the beginning of my activities. 
For Comfort belt, contacts needed some cleaning and bending from time to time, it does not seems to be an issue with button connection on Smart Sensor, at least not on mine, at least not yet. But it is possible to put a belt on while sensor is not fully snapped into place, this intermittent connection can result with something like this:







(lazy commute, my hr max is bellow 190)


----------



## PTBC

Unperson said:


> Today's run presented me with some wacky data. My SSU and Movescount reported I ran 8.01 km, but it was actually 6.44 (I rebuilt the route on the map in Movescount). Not only that but my maximum pace is recorded at 0.11 minute per kilometer (beat that ;-)) and my maximum speed was therefore some 160 km/h according to Movescount. This is the first glitch I've seen in over 120 moves on the SSU so I'm not too worried about that. I've also recently started using the Milestonepod to get better pace data so maybe these two devices got into an argument.
> 
> Anyway, I can edit the move in Movescount, so I set the distance back to 6.44 km in stead of the 8, but the graphs still show the glitchy maximum pace and maximum speed. Anyone know how I can correct that? Movescount also awarded me a gold medal for my new personal best of 16 minutes for 5 km, which I would also like to remove. I see a button for deleting that PB but I see some warning about losing data from the move which isn't very clear. If i delete that PB will it also delete the move or will it just delete that PB. Anyone know?


An edited move should be excluded from PB, which makes sense, and that is the explanation Suunto gave me when it was first introduced as I had edited a 9.8km distance to 10km and it didn't show up on my PB for 10km when they introduced the feature. If it's still showing I'd email Suunto.

Edit-edited move as it was a 10km marked course, should have just carried on past the finish line I guess


----------



## Skier2017

Egika said:


> Good contact to your skin is essential. Moisten the area of the pads well before your workout!


Thank you, this was indeed the problem. I started to do as suggested further down and soaked the whole band before working out and haven't had an issue since.


----------



## paul1928

Skier2017 said:


> It's been working well for over three months without me changing anything. But I'll try to really soak it, to see if that's causing the issue. Thanks.


That could be your issue. Have you washed it recently?  Pop the strap in a delicates bag and throw it in a cold or warm (but not hot) wash with the rest of your gear. Personally I just rinse the strap in the shower straight after each run.


----------



## vervloet

I I bought one Spartan Ultra, but there are only 4 pool size that you can choose from on the watch. Those options are 25m, 50m, 25yd, and 50yd. But I swim in a 20m pool size. In my Ambit 2, I change pool size. Can I change size pool in my Spartan Ultra ?


----------



## Egika

vervloet said:


> I I bought one Spartan Ultra, but there are only 4 pool size that you can choose from on the watch. Those options are 25m, 50m, 25yd, and 50yd. But I swim in a 20m pool size. In my Ambit 2, I change pool size. Can I change size pool in my Spartan Ultra ?


Are you on an old firmware?
I just recently set my SSU to 28m without any issue


----------



## vervloet

Egika said:


> Are you on an old firmware?
> I just recently set my SSU to 28m without any issue


I think to be the original firmware. I didn't update yet.


----------



## Egika

vervloet said:


> I think to be the original firmware. I didn't update yet.


You should do this!
The update from March 1 includes "editing pool length."


----------



## vervloet

Yes, the new update is nice, but I have a question, can only use POD bluetooth or can use ANT+ ?


----------



## Quotron

Egika said:


> You should do this!
> The update from March 1 includes "editing pool length."


Have they added Drill mode yet?


----------



## user_none

vervloet said:


> Yes, the new update is nice, but I have a question, can only use POD bluetooth or can use ANT+ ?


Bluetooth only. Starting with the Ambit3 line, Suunto has transitioned over to Bluetooth.


----------



## matej123

Is there any rumor about Spartan 2 or any new watches from Suunto?


----------



## Egika

matej123 said:


> Is there any rumor about Spartan 2 or any new watches from Suunto?


Spartan is not yet fully developed. No rumor on a v2.
Other watches? Dunno...


----------



## sb029111

Egika said:


> Spartan is not yet fully developed. No rumor on a v2.
> Other watches? Dunno...


I don't know how widespread it is, but today, I received an E-mail from Suunto stating that for one day only, the Spartan Ultra was 30% off.. That tells me that they're not selling as well as they'd hoped, and are trying to lower inventories. Why? Who knows, maybe it's just inventory for taxes time, or maybe they want to forget the Ultra?


----------



## mramon

sb029111 said:


> I don't know how widespread it is, but today, I received an E-mail from Suunto stating that for one day only, the Spartan Ultra was 30% off.. That tells me that they're not selling as well as they'd hoped, and are trying to lower inventories. Why? Who knows, maybe it's just inventory for taxes time, or maybe they want to forget the Ultra?


This discount applies only for US? I would like to get such discount


----------



## vervloet

I'd like to buy a Foot Pod for my SSU, I good Bluetooth Foot Pod for SSU ?


----------



## user_none

vervloet said:


> I'd like to buy a Foot Pod for my SSU, I good Bluetooth Foot Pod for SSU ?


You have no choice but to go with a Bluetooth connected foot pod. No ANT+ in the SSU.


----------



## gousias

sb029111 said:


> I don't know how widespread it is, but today, I received an E-mail from Suunto stating that for one day only, the Spartan Ultra was 30% off.. That tells me that they're not selling as well as they'd hoped, and are trying to lower inventories. Why? Who knows, maybe it's just inventory for taxes time, or maybe they want to forget the Ultra?


Or maybe they are trying to sell out before an upcoming release of Spartan 2?


----------



## martowl

sb029111 said:


> I don't know how widespread it is, but today, I received an E-mail from Suunto stating that for one day only, the Spartan Ultra was 30% off.. That tells me that they're not selling as well as they'd hoped, and are trying to lower inventories. Why? Who knows, maybe it's just inventory for taxes time, or maybe they want to forget the Ultra?


I doubt it, this is the Pro Deal price so that is probably the lowest sale they offer. I think development for the Spartan is still going strong. I suspect a beta tester could confirm that without breaking an NDA.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

martowl said:


> I think development for the Spartan is still going strong.


I like your choice of phrase but won't bite ;-)


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

martowl said:


> sb029111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how widespread it is, but today, I received an E-mail from Suunto stating that for one day only, the Spartan Ultra was 30% off.. That tells me that they're not selling as well as they'd hoped, and are trying to lower inventories. Why? Who knows, maybe it's just inventory for taxes time, or maybe they want to forget the Ultra?
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt it, this is the Pro Deal price so that is probably the lowest sale they offer. I think development for the Spartan is still going strong. I suspect a beta tester could confirm that without breaking an NDA.
Click to expand...

Typical "problem" with Suunto is that the most likely answer is Yes.

To everything.

New things in development? Sure.
Further updates/development of the existing? Yes.
Wanting to sell better /more? But of course!

All at once. And we'll know how these things worked out when they are in the past...


----------



## PTBC

sb029111 said:


> I don't know how widespread it is, but today, I received an E-mail from Suunto stating that for one day only, the Spartan Ultra was 30% off.. That tells me that they're not selling as well as they'd hoped, and are trying to lower inventories. Why? Who knows, maybe it's just inventory for taxes time, or maybe they want to forget the Ultra?


Wasn't it Amazon prime day, maybe they were trying to use that sale to promote their own?


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> I doubt it, this is the Pro Deal price so that is probably the lowest sale they offer. I think development for the Spartan is still going strong. I suspect a beta tester could confirm that without breaking an NDA.


Hoping that with it being 1 year since the launch coming up that they have something planned for an August update


----------



## BobMiles

For your info, if your planned Trainings won't update on the watch, a reboot (12sec top button) and sync afterwards will fix it! 
Mine got stuck and I just found out! 

Gesendet von meinem HUAWEI GRA-L09 mit Tapatalk


----------



## newtonfb

Does the POI navigation feature they finally implemented work like the Ambit series? One of the things that I hate on the Ambit series is the "as the crow flies" distance instead of following the imported route distance. Just curious as they finally added that feature.


----------



## martowl

BobMiles said:


> For your info, if your planned Trainings won't update on the watch, a reboot (12sec top button) and sync afterwards will fix it!
> Mine got stuck and I just found out!
> 
> Gesendet von meinem HUAWEI GRA-L09 mit Tapatalk


yup, posted this awhile back. I noticed that if you change a workout and does not update after syncing you will need a reboot as well. I reported this as a bug 2 updates ago to Suunto.


----------



## Jaka83

newtonfb said:


> Does the POI navigation feature they finally implemented work like the Ambit series? One of the things that I hate on the Ambit series is the "as the crow flies" distance instead of following the imported route distance. Just curious as they finally added that feature.


It's "as the crow flies" for now. I'm hoping they add an option to choose how you want it. Or maybe it could be automatic - if you have the POI on an imported route, it could follow the route distance and if it's just a POI you picked randomly, it could be "as the crow flies". At least that's my logic.


----------



## Egika

Always remember: Spartan is beyond logic


----------



## newtonfb

Jaka83 said:


> It's "as the crow flies" for now. I'm hoping they add an option to choose how you want it. Or maybe it could be automatic - if you have the POI on an imported route, it could follow the route distance and if it's just a POI you picked randomly, it could be "as the crow flies". At least that's my logic.


Thats disappointing. It makes zero sense to not atleast give an option. I cant even think of a reason to use "as the crow flies distance" when you have a route imported. It makes the feature useless basically.


----------



## Jaka83

Dang it, I did a move today and didn't notice that the movescount service was down and synced my watch via the movescount mobile app. The watch now thinks everything is synced, but my last move does not show up on movescount. I already tried connecting the watch to my computer via cable, but nothing except for the settings syncs.
Is there a way to force sync the latest move?

EDIT: Nevermind, the move synced from my phone, it just needed more time to get transferred. All is back to normal.


----------



## iridium7777

something similar happened to my A3 earlier this year. i spent 6 weeks waiting for a response from suunto on the issue, they asked for logs and couldn't determine anything.

the only option, at the end of 6 weeks, i was told that they would have to remotely log into my windows machine so they could see the move that was on the watch for themselves -- since i have no windows machine the move ended up being lost forever. o|



Jaka83 said:


> Dang it, I did a move today and didn't notice that the movescount service was down and synced my watch via the movescount mobile app. The watch now thinks everything is synced, but my last move does not show up on movescount. I already tried connecting the watch to my computer via cable, but nothing except for the settings syncs.
> Is there a way to force sync the latest move?


----------



## Itsikv

Hi There ,
Any idea how to reset the Spartan Recovery time ?
Due to HR sensor issue the watch determine that I need 118 Hours o|
Its not that this data is important... but I would like to reset it anyway and go back to normal and reasonable time.
I tried reset and also force update but no success 

Thanks 
Itsik


----------



## Jaka83

I don't think you can reset it by hand, you'll just need to "rest" to make it go back to normal. Recover time is baked into movescount.


----------



## BobMiles

Yesterday there were slight changes to the spartan update page. Usually this happened one week before an update in the past... 
We'll see!


----------



## cageracer

Hey guys, I currently have an Ambit 2. I really want something with BT sync, have the issues with the Spartan reported early in it's release been sorted out? Or would I be better of getting an Ambit 3? (The Ambit 3 does seem a bit long in the tooth these days...)


----------



## Egika

Ambit3 and Spartan both have their quirks and glitches from time to time.
It's not like the rock solid Suunto reliability from the past anymore 
Ambit3 seems to have some sync and workout planning issues.
While the Spartan still have very few bugs related to altitude in triathlon mode and resets in multi sport modes.
The problems from the beginning of this thread are definitely gone


----------



## martowl

Spartan SPECTACULAR
I ran a 100K this last Saturday and used my SSU Stealth. I set the GPS to Good (26h), Low Color Mode and Screen Timeout. The race was long and hard, my finish was 20:41. The Spartan recorded HR and Power the entire race....AND *46%* battery left when done...That means the battery should last ~40h....rather amazing! The move is here and the good GPS fix gave a great track (IMHO).

I should add I hit the lap button at each aid station and used a custom Trail Run setup. Here are my screens.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> Spartan SPECTACULAR
> I ran a 100K this last Saturday and used my SSU Stealth. I set the GPS to Good (26h), Low Color Mode and Screen Timeout. The race was long and hard, my finish was 20:41. The Spartan recorded HR and Power the entire race....AND *46%* battery left when done...That means the battery should last ~40h....rather amazing! The move is here and the good GPS fix gave a great track (IMHO).


Awesome!


----------



## chuwi

Hi

Last saturday I ran a 14h ultra. GPS set to maximum precision, glonass off, bluetooth off, screen timeout, low color profile. After 14h battery 20% remains

I only have a problem: 7h after the race start I pause de activity. 5' later when I try to resume watch HANGS :-( I have to full reset it and start another activity. At least, suunto save all the data of the previous activity



martowl said:


> Spartan SPECTACULAR
> I ran a 100K this last Saturday and used my SSU Stealth. I set the GPS to Good (26h), Low Color Mode and Screen Timeout. The race was long and hard, my finish was 20:41. The Spartan recorded HR and Power the entire race....AND *46%* battery left when done...That means the battery should last ~40h....rather amazing! The move is here and the good GPS fix gave a great track (IMHO).


----------



## martowl

cageracer said:


> Hey guys, I currently have an Ambit 2. I really want something with BT sync, have the issues with the Spartan reported early in it's release been sorted out? Or would I be better of getting an Ambit 3? (The Ambit 3 does seem a bit long in the tooth these days...)


See my recent post. I have an A3P and used the Spartan for a rather long race this last Saturday (7/22). I think it may be time to sell my A3P


----------



## martowl

Not all is rosy in fenix land.......https://the5krunner.com/2017/05/25/fenix-5-5s-recall-would-you-do-that-if-you-were-garmin-right-now/

Pretty happy with my Spartan now, I would advise and will force a firmware update between long efforts just to ensure no crashes. I will test again the battery with good GPS fix as I am doing a 24-30h event this weekend. I expect to complete it with no charging. That will be better than the A3P in 5s fix mode. I will let you all know.


----------



## user_none

martowl said:


> Not all is rosy in fenix land.......https://the5krunner.com/2017/05/25/fenix-5-5s-recall-would-you-do-that-if-you-were-garmin-right-now/
> 
> Pretty happy with my Spartan now, I would advise and will force a firmware update between long efforts just to ensure no crashes. I will test again the battery with good GPS fix as I am doing a 24-30h event this weekend. I expect to complete it with no charging. That will be better than the A3P in 5s fix mode. I will let you all know.


The f5 I had (3, actually) were all very weak on Bluetooth and ANT+ connections. That point was driven home with the 5X I have now, but even more so with the SSU and it receiving phone notifications a full 20+ feet further and two walls more than the f5 could ever achieve.

Not giving up the SSU, but also liking the 5X.


----------



## sb029111

user_none said:


> The f5 I had (3, actually) were all very weak on Bluetooth and ANT+ connections. That point was driven home with the 5X I have now, but even more so with the SSU and it receiving phone notifications a full 20+ feet further and two walls more than the f5 could ever achieve.
> 
> Not giving up the SSU, but also liking the 5X.


I had two fenix 5's, (yeah, I kept going back, thinking it was me that caused the problems I was seeing), and a FR935, and they ALL had major random dropouts with the HRM-Run I had, and I had both the old (detachable) type, and the "new" (red) one. Additionally, everytime I would charge either of them, they Optical heart rate monitor would not work until I rebooted the watch, which, of course, reset all of the personal, and personal metrics, like VO2, etc. Of course, when I contacted Garmin, either I received no reply, or, in the case of the HRM, they simply sent me a new one that exhibited the same problems. For the problems after recharging, the only thing I got from them was "Gee, we've not seen that before"... 
So...
I gave up, and decided to go back to Suunto, quirks and all. and while they're not perfect, I do think (for me) the Suuntos' are more reliable, and the connections (for me again) are rock solid, and reliable. 
I've tested both my SSU, and the SSWHR with the Suunto Smart Sensor, Wahoo Tickr-X, Scosche Rhythm+, a MiCoach Footpod, and Wahoo Blue SC bike pods, and once paired, they are quickly recognized, and connected when they are needed.
Just my 2c worth.


----------



## bruceames

Are the HR dropouts on the F5/5X only from the optical HRM or from the chest strap too?


----------



## user_none

bruceames said:


> Are the HR dropouts on the F5/5X only from the optical HRM or from the chest strap too?


It's the 5s/5 having problems, not the 5X. On the f5s and f5, it's not the optical HR having problems, other than normal optical HR stuff. It's Bluetooth and ANT+ connections dropping out. To a lesser extent the 935 has had some dropouts and while I'm not surprised, given it is a plastic f5, there's been lots less reports of it than the 5s/5 fiasco.


----------



## sb029111

bruceames said:


> Are the HR dropouts on the F5/5X only from the optical HRM or from the chest strap too?


Usually, the optical HRM didn't have any drop outs, but both of the ANT+ straps, the "old" one and the new "red" on suffered terrible dropouts. Dropping around 6-8 times on a 1/2 hour treadmill/strength workout. Oddly enough, the BLuetooth/ANT Wahoo Blue S/C bike cadence/speed sensor didn't give any dropouts at all. I'm not sure how it was connecting to the F5 though, it just connected.

The problem was that the Optical HRM on the wrist was pretty much useless for activities such as Weight training, or intervals, as it was too slow to catch the rapid change in HR. Also, any activity that flexes the wrist makes the OHRM go wonkers, at least it did for me.


----------



## PTBC

Still having consistency issues, seems that it's either great or bad and one thing goes or another. Did a 30min interval session and after 10mins altitude froze, did a 22km hike and after 15mins HR froze, track on hike also seemed to have offset issues without Glonass on, but that could be down to the cliffs on the other side of the river


----------



## ascender

I had a Spartan Ultra soon after it was launched but ended up returning it for a refund as it was plagued with issues. I've been keeping up with the threads though and after talking to a friend who uses one at the weekend am going to try one again. It looks like its improved a lot with the firmware updates, although some people still seem to be having issues. But while running at the weekend, the amount of info available on one screen and the other updates, not to mention vibration alerts have convinced me to give it another go.

Fingers crossed....

Anybody fancy a barely-used Ambit3 Peak in Sapphire Blue?!


----------



## pirx

With all the FW-updates has any of this below improved?

- bluetooth sync speed (with android), heard before that it was very slow
- GPS accuracy, have read many different comparisons online, and naturally a few of thos complained about the Ultra GPS (while other said it was very good)
- touch screen responsiveness?

Any there any significant problems remaining with the Ultra? (significant, as in, many people agree that this is an issue)


----------



## Jaka83

pirx said:


> With all the FW-updates has any of this below improved?
> 
> - bluetooth sync speed (with android), heard before that it was very slow- not for me, on Android it is still stupidly slow ... more than 5 min for a 7 hour hike.
> - GPS accuracy, have read many different comparisons online, and naturally a few of thos complained about the Ultra GPS (while other said it was very good) - I'm probably not the one to answer this as GPS has been consistently acceptable for me from the start. I usually get excellent to good results.
> - touch screen responsiveness? - It could be a placebo, but responsiveness of the touch screen looks like it is more consistent now. I would get some missed swipes here and there in the past, but now it usually works fine ... double finger tap is still a bit hit and miss for me tho.
> 
> Any there any significant problems remaining with the Ultra? (significant, as in, many people agree that this is an issue) - Other than some missing additional features that would make it stand out more, but nothing mission critical for me.


It is a very personal thing, so if you have a chance to test it out and return it if you don't like it, then go for it. Otherwise I don't know what to recommend since all the manufacturers seem to be putting out beta products these days.


----------



## ascender

Am I missing something.... I've set auto pause to be on for a couple of run sports but it doesn't seem to work automatically. Do you need to be standing still for a decent amount of time before it kicks in??


----------



## martowl

ascender said:


> Am I missing something.... I've set auto pause to be on for a couple of run sports but it doesn't seem to work automatically. Do you need to be standing still for a decent amount of time before it kicks in??


I usually don't use it as powerhiking up steep hills autopauses for me. I think 5-10 sec should do it. It is based off of GPS and probably accelerometer so if the GPS fix is not best it may take longer. It may depend on the run sport as well but mine is fairly responsive on the bike.


----------



## pirx

Anyone heard of future possibilities to create custom apps for the Spartan line, like for Ambit?


----------



## jukkaforss

Suunto just released this piece of future upgrade plans.

http://www.suunto.com/Worlds/Training-World/Software-updates/updates-for-suunto-spartan/

UPCOMING SUUNTO SPARTAN PLANS
Our focus this summer is to bring performance enhancements to the current Spartan solution. We are targeting to deliver some of these improvements by late summer/early autumn. Following this, we will be bringing a substantial, outdoor-focused release later in the autumn, currently scheduled for late October.

As we move forward, the cadence of our software updates will be once per quarter (approximately every three months). Updates will typically include both feature updates and performance improvements.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## borgelkranz

So this means September, right?

The last update was mid June. Plus three months means September.
And the outdoor-focused release is scheduled for late October, which means November. And November minus three months should be September...

Let's see...


----------



## BobMiles

borgelkranz said:


> So this means September, right?
> 
> The last update was mid June. Plus three months means September.
> And the outdoor-focused release is scheduled for late October, which means November. And November minus three months should be September...
> 
> Let's see...


No no no you didn't use the suuntarian calendar! 
Summer/early autumn = end of October 
Late autumn = mid of January

Because as we all know, beginning of June ist the 15th in suuntarian calendar! So you have to extrapolate a bit. 
But hey, three months update intervals mean only two manual force resets between them!

Okay sorry I'm getting sarcastic


----------



## martowl

pirx said:


> Anyone heard of future possibilities to create custom apps for the Spartan line, like for Ambit?


Rumors that it will happen.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1489742544416059&set=gm.1452119394880119&type=3


----------



## Jaka83

Let's hope it is true and we will at some point gain app support AND the much needed graphs with other additional parameters as well.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

I'm sure it will finally get to the functionality of the current Ambit.


----------



## cerzet

That and DCR says that the next update will be at the end of August. From DCR's Spartan Trainer review: "got sleep tracking coming up at the end of the month (you didn't know that was even happening, did you?)." Suunto themselves talk about performance enhancements next. 



martowl said:


> Rumors that it will happen.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1489742544416059&set=gm.1452119394880119&type=3


----------



## cerzet

Noticed in the comments from the same review, re multiple sensor support, DCR: "In talking with them yesterday, they understand this is frustrating and it’s on the list to resolve. It’s sorta a bigger issue though around sensors and sensor management in general though (or lack thereof)."

Well, that's great news, hope it doesn't take too long to implement though. I really need it, now have 4 different HR sensors.


----------



## cerzet

cerzet said:


> From DCR's Spartan Trainer review: "got sleep tracking coming up at the end of the month (you didn't know that was even happening, did you?)."


DCR: "The existing Spartan series will get it, though slightly behind the Spartan Trainer. The Spartan Trainer should get the update on August 31st, with the other Spartans "about a month later".


----------



## nikola118

Hi,
sorry for my intrusion but i have a big problem with this sport watch and this is the only forum where i have found a topic regard this watch.


Today, while the clock was connected to the PC, it's suddenly turned off! I restarted it and I saw the down arrow symbol of the upgrade in progress... this is very stranger.
I try to reset (isn't a real reset but an update 1.9.36 to 1.9.36 second suuntoLink) my watch trought Suunto link but near the finish of the reset the clock turns off and does not never turn on!


I restart my watch but I have the same symbol of down arrow!


How can fix this problem?!
It's possible do an hard reset??






PS: I'm italia, sorry for my bad english


----------



## Egika

nikola118 said:


> Hi,
> sorry for my intrusion but i have a big problem with this sport watch and this is the only forum where i have found a topic regard this watch.
> 
> Today, while the clock was connected to the PC, it's suddenly turned off! I restarted it and I saw the down arrow symbol of the upgrade in progress... this is very stranger.
> I try to reset (isn't a real reset but an update 1.9.36 to 1.9.36 second suuntoLink) my watch trought Suunto link but near the finish of the reset the clock turns off and does not never turn on!
> 
> I restart my watch but I have the same symbol of down arrow!
> 
> How can fix this problem?!
> It's possible do an hard reset??
> 
> PS: I'm italia, sorry for my bad english


I think the Suunto support is of a lot more help for you in this case than an internet forum.
Have you tried calling them?


----------



## nikola118

It happened last night
I have send a mail at the assistance and monday I try to call the call center!


----------



## ascender

Stupid beginner's question.... SSU seems to be over-estimating altitude. Sitting here, I think its about 40/50 foot out and that's obviously creating fairly big variances on my hilly runs.

Is the recommended setting to set an altitude reference point manually?

Or is FusedAlti the recommended setting? Which obviously I'd need to set via Movescount.


----------



## cageracer

Hmm I still haven't convinced myself to pull the trigger on the Spartan. It's a good $400 more than an Ambit 3 Peak right now (in Australian pesos). Still very tempted though.

It has been out for over 12 months though, do you guys think an update is likely any time soon?

My Ambit 2 is still chugging along, it's been rock solid for me - apart from not recording the first 800m of a run the other day when I didn't wait for it to get a GPS fix.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

cageracer said:


> Hmm I still haven't convinced myself to pull the trigger on the Spartan. It's a good $400 more than an Ambit 3 Peak right now (in Australian pesos). Still very tempted though.
> 
> It has been out for over 12 months though, do you guys think an update is likely any time soon?
> 
> My Ambit 2 is still chugging along, it's been rock solid for me - apart from not recording the first 800m of a run the other day when I didn't wait for it to get a GPS fix.


The next software updates have been announced. Hardware, unlikely anytime soon.


----------



## pirx

I heard a rumor that you need to connect the SSU by wire (to a windows och mac computer i guess) to update the firmware. Is that true? Cant be done over bluetooth via the phone/app?

Also, the watch is totally reset when updating the firmware?
Doesnt it automagically sync all settings once its been paired with the phone-app??

wbr / Alex


----------



## cageracer

Android users, is the Movescount app a full replacement for using Movescount via a laptop or is there still missing functionality?


----------



## PTBC

pirx said:


> I heard a rumor that you need to connect the SSU by wire (to a windows och mac computer i guess) to update the firmware. Is that true? Cant be done over bluetooth via the phone/app?
> 
> Also, the watch is totally reset when updating the firmware?
> Doesnt it automagically sync all settings once its been paired with the phone-app??
> 
> wbr / Alex


They fixed the wiped settings issue and now it retains settings and log information as well


----------



## Egika

pirx said:


> I heard a rumor that you need to connect the SSU by wire (to a windows och mac computer i guess) to update the firmware. Is that true? Cant be done over bluetooth via the phone/app?
> 
> Also, the watch is totally reset when updating the firmware?
> Doesnt it automagically sync all settings once its been paired with the phone-app??
> 
> wbr / Alex


No rumor. The watch needs the cable to be updated. Not possible wireless.
The watch is totally reset during this process. Settings and your last 30days move will be re-synched after the update.


----------



## cageracer

Ah bugger it, I saw a deal too good to pass up and pulled the trigger on the Spartan Ultra.

Is it possible to change the data fields on activity screens yet (like my 4 year old Ambit 2)?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

cageracer said:


> Ah bugger it, I saw a deal too good to pass up and pulled the trigger on the Spartan Ultra.
> 
> Is it possible to change the data fields on activity screens yet (like my 4 year old Ambit 2)?


Not completely, but quite a bit (creating your own sports mode screens)


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

If someone wants to have a look, I've made a Google Map with the tracks the Suunto Spartan Ultra and a Casio ProTrek Smart recorded when I fasthiked the Lion Rock Trail in Hong Kong. (Proper post/video on that trail, review of the Casio, updated ultimate how-to for the SSU,... coming to my blog over the next few weeks.)


----------



## Egika

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Not completely, but quite a bit (creating your own sports mode screens)


Why not completely?
What are you missing when it comes to configuring the data fields?


----------



## frenitirati

F.E. you can't add graphs of altitude, speed, peace, heart... and the numbers of screen to add is limited.


----------



## Egika

frenitirati said:


> F.E. you can't add graphs of altitude, speed, peace, heart... and the numbers of screen to add is limited.


Didn't know the number if screens was limited. Since he was asking for the data fields, I think everything is there. He wasn't asking for graphs.


----------



## cageracer

Yeah, just being able to customise data fields like the Ambit is at least a start.

Also, does anyone understand why the Ambit has (allegedly) a 200 hour battery life with 60 second GPS fixes vs 60 hours for the SSU?


----------



## martowl

cageracer said:


> Yeah, just being able to customise data fields like the Ambit is at least a start.
> 
> Also, does anyone understand why the Ambit has (allegedly) a 200 hour battery life with 60 second GPS fixes vs 60 hours for the SSU?


I think a large part of this is backlight. I have exceeded by a lot the stated Good fix by using the screen timeout function. I believe that this time could be doubled with the screen timeout.


----------



## Egika

cageracer said:


> Yeah, just being able to customise data fields like the Ambit is at least a start.
> 
> Also, does anyone understand why the Ambit has (allegedly) a 200 hour battery life with 60 second GPS fixes vs 60 hours for the SSU?


The Ambit Peak has a bigger battery. The GPS antenna is placed outside the watch body.
While the SSU has a higher resolution color screen.
Obviously Suunto figured a 200h battery life is not a must have feature on their next sports watch.
And also the Ambit3 is still available.
The SSU is not meant to be a replacement!


----------



## frenitirati

Time out is usefull but doesn't do miracles 
with GPS on best, no saving battery, it runs 13h, with low color 14h, with low color and display time out 16h - 16h e 30m.


----------



## martowl

frenitirati said:


> Time out is usefull but doesn't do miracles
> with GPS on best, no saving battery, it runs 13h, with low color 14h, with low color and display time out 16h - 16h e 30m.


I think it depends on how you use the watch. On Best GPS with time out and low color, I had 42% left after 9h 30 min so that would exceed your time and with Good fix I had 46% left after 20h 40 min so I would far exceed the 26h stated battery life. Doing better for me than you and probably depends on how often you activate the watch, how difficult the GPS acquisition is, etc. Most of my use is at or above tree line and not in canyons so my GPS acquisition is likely not difficult.


----------



## cageracer

So I got my SSU a few days ago. I haven't had a chance to actually go for a run/ride yet, so I've been wearing as a normal/'smart' watch. I find the UI a bit quirky - nearly everything can be done with the buttons, which I applaud, except for a few screens where you have to swipe to go back. The inconsistency is maddening and I found this very confusing at first. I wonder what the hell you're supposed to do when the screen is wet and unresponsive?

This next bit I'll preface this by saying I didn't buy it for it's smart capabilities and I don't particularly care for them, but Suunto include these features and I was curious what they're like...

They're really not very good. It doesn't maintain a reliable connection to my phone to display notifications, and the ones it does display are kind of pointless - pretty much just the sender and subject line, if that. Not the content. Unless I'm missing something in my configuration? The Garmin Fenix that my wife has seems much more useful in this sense.

I can't seem to dismiss the notifications either, I have to wait until they time out.

The step counter is _exceedingly_ generous. I racked up 14k steps the first day, walking around the hospital (work) and riding my motorbike home. My wife walked 6km to and from work the same day and recorded 6k on her Fenix 3. There's no way the SSU is accurate.

So given that the step counter and notifications are worthless, I've gone back to wearing my Seiko Turtle as a daily.

Will try and get out on the weekend to see how it goes on the bike - the main reason I bought it.

BTW it is very comfortable to wear and looks pretty sharp, despite it's enormous size.


----------



## Egika

Just push the middle button to dismiss a notification. For me it reliably displays the whole content that also my iPhone shows.
Which menu do you have to swipe and cannot use the buttons? I use buttons for everything in the water.

Step counter seems accurate for my model. Maybe yours needs to be replaced or serviced to count correctly. At least this is not a serial error.


----------



## borgelkranz

And holding the middle button is mapped to "back" or "shortcuts" in most menus.


----------



## BobMiles

cageracer said:


> The step counter is _exceedingly_ generous. I racked up 14k steps the first day, walking around the hospital (work) and riding my motorbike home. My wife walked 6km to and from work the same day and recorded 6k on her Fenix 3. There's no way the SSU is accurate.


I agree it is generous, but unless your wife has a stride length of 2m, the fenix measurement is rubbish. 
Anyways, step counters should not be taken as an absolute, but rather a relative information. Every counter is off, but it's the trend that matters.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

cageracer said:


> I find the UI a bit quirky - ...


Quirky or perhaps different? Like most things it is a matter of getting used to the interface then it become the norm.



cageracer said:


> This next bit I'll preface this by saying I didn't buy it for it's smart capabilities and I don't particularly care for them, but Suunto include these features and I was curious what they're like...


Likewise I buy an outdoors watch for the outdoors, not as s smart watch. But the limited smart watch functions does make some sense if you cannot completely remove your self from your phone. While out on the track you can quickly see if the incoming needs to be acted on or not....and actually dismiss it if required. Similar with text notifications.



cageracer said:


> The step counter is _exceedingly_ generous.


I agree, definitely over estimates. I believe an outdoor or indeed a high end sports watch doesn't warrant a step counter. It was market pressure to keep up with the Jones. If you are training for your next triathlon, a daily step counter is pointless.


----------



## cageracer

Egika said:


> Just push the middle button to dismiss a notification. For me it reliably displays the whole content that also my iPhone shows.


I have an android, I wonder if that might be the problem?



borgelkranz said:


> And holding the middle button is mapped to "back" or "shortcuts" in most menus.


Aha, thanks for that, very handy to know!


----------



## cageracer

Philip Onayeti said:


> Quirky or perhaps different? Like most things it is a matter of getting used to the interface then it become the norm.


Different, I suppose, but the Ambit had such a logical control layout that losing two buttons on the SSU seems like a step backwards.



Philip Onayeti said:


> If you are training for your next triathlon, a daily step counter is pointless.


Yeah, I was just curious, because there's this whole 'thing' now about aiming for 10k steps/day (pfft, get back to me when your PTE hits 5!) and I wondered how many I'd rack up on a normal day at work. I don't believe the figure I got from the SSU though, so I'll keep wondering I guess.

In any event, my mechanical Seiko is more practical at work (timing something is much easier with a bezel than poking through menus) and I never really needed the smart features anyway. I'll see how it goes outdoors on the weekend.


----------



## Egika

cageracer said:


> I have an android, I wonder if that might be the problem?/QUOTE]
> How is your Android messaging configured? Does it show just the topic or also the message content in the notification?


----------



## BobMiles

I have feedback from suunto that the altitude problems will be fixed in the coming firmware (not sure if that's the end of August or fall update)


----------



## buenosbias

BobMiles said:


> I have feedback from suunto that the altitude problems will be fixed in the coming firmware (not sure if that's the end of August or fall update)


That's great news! My one remaining qualm with the SSU would come to an end.


----------



## cageracer

Egika said:


> cageracer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have an android, I wonder if that might be the problem?/QUOTE]
> How is your Android messaging configured? Does it show just the topic or also the message content in the notification?
> 
> 
> 
> I just changed my notification settings to allow content on lockscreen but it doesn't help. All I get is the subject line of an email, no content. Likewise SMS etc.
Click to expand...


----------



## Egika

Just had my SSU freak out on me on a race day.
While it managed all kinds of sport during training (from running to open water swimming and kite boarding) it found no GPS yesterday over a one hour long running event.
Here's what happened:
I set the watch to obstacle racing and start a brief recording that I delete right away to make that sport top of the list.
Then 20min before the start of the race I tried to auto calibrate the altitude.
After a few minutes the watch display went nuts, flickered and briefly showed incoming calls that definitely weren't there.
After this I tried to get a GPS signal without success.
I then synced GPS data with my iPhone.
Still 15 mins to go to the race start I start the activity but the watch did not get a valid GPS position during these 15 mins and also not over the whole 1h of the race itself.
Super disappointing.

With more time after the race I rebooted the watch by holding the upper button for 15s and synced GPS data again. Now the watch could get a position again... Unfortunately too late...


----------



## BobMiles

Egika said:


> Just had my SSU freak out on me on a race day.
> While it managed all kinds of sport during training (from running to open water swimming and kite boarding) it found no GPS yesterday over a one hour long running event.
> Here's what happened:
> I set the watch to obstacle racing and start a brief recording that I delete right away to make that sport top of the list.
> Then 20min before the start of the race I tried to auto calibrate the altitude.
> After a few minutes the watch display went nuts, flickered and briefly showed incoming calls that definitely weren't there.
> After this I tried to get a GPS signal without success.
> I then synced GPS data with my iPhone.
> Still 15 mins to go to the race start I start the activity but the watch did not get a valid GPS position during these 15 mins and also not over the whole 1h of the race itself.
> Super disappointing.
> 
> With more time after the race I rebooted the watch by holding the upper button for 15s and synced GPS data again. Now the watch could get a position again... Unfortunately too late...


Awful! Most of my crashes were during or before a race, too. I was already wondering if it's some kind of Bluetooth thing where it has problems when a lot of devices are near... 
Can't do much but hope for the update!


----------



## cageracer

Finally got out for a quick ride today (cut short by air in my brake lines GRRRRRR)

If I make changes to the sport modes on movescount.com with my laptop, are the changes transferred when I do a sync via bluetooth and the mobile app?

Also, is there are way to force a sync? 

I'm getting a lot of failed sync messages on the app, it's very annoying. I can turn bluetooth off on my phone but the watch still tells me it's connected. 

It all feels a bit half arsed right now and I can't believe this is what it's like AFTER a years worth of firmware updates!


----------



## cageracer

Also, finished my ride and opened the app on my phone, the watch would flash up a 'synchronising' page when I tried to go into settings and kick me out of the settings menu. Is this normal behaviour?


----------



## Egika

cageracer said:


> Also, finished my ride and opened the app on my phone, the watch would flash up a 'synchronising' page when I tried to go into settings and kick me out of the settings menu. Is this normal behaviour?


Yes. This is normal.
It also won't sync when you are in the logbook.


----------



## cageracer

Hmm, very strange.


----------



## Egika

cageracer said:


> Hmm, very strange.


Why? You want to make sure no data is edited while it is half way synced and thus getting corrupt. Also maybe the processor performance is not high enough for multiple tasks.
Just speculation, but I don't find this a critical limitation.


----------



## martowl

Egika said:


> Just had my SSU freak out on me on a race day.
> While it managed all kinds of sport during training (from running to open water swimming and kite boarding) it found no GPS yesterday over a one hour long running event.
> Here's what happened:
> I set the watch to obstacle racing and start a brief recording that I delete right away to make that sport top of the list.
> Then 20min before the start of the race I tried to auto calibrate the altitude.
> After a few minutes the watch display went nuts, flickered and briefly showed incoming calls that definitely weren't there.
> After this I tried to get a GPS signal without success.
> I then synced GPS data with my iPhone.
> Still 15 mins to go to the race start I start the activity but the watch did not get a valid GPS position during these 15 mins and also not over the whole 1h of the race itself.
> Super disappointing.
> 
> With more time after the race I rebooted the watch by holding the upper button for 15s and synced GPS data again. Now the watch could get a position again... Unfortunately too late...


AAAAKKKKK! This has happened only once to me with the current firmware (on my sport, not Ultra) and I have not forced a firmware update. I have a lot of logs on the watch. The time it happened on the Sport, I had notifications enabled. I now turn off Notifications whenever recording an important or long move. Yours seems similar to mine, it may have been trying to deal with the notifications and that caused the reboot. I have not had a reboot since. Make sure you report to Suunto....this one has to get fixed!


----------



## Philip Onayeti

cageracer said:


> It all feels a bit half arsed right now and I can't believe this is what it's like AFTER a years worth of firmware updates!


Shhh...you're not allowed to say that around here.

But you are right. Some of us have bought the Spartan and have returned or moved it on, and gone back to the trusted Ambit which still has a more complete feature set (and better GPS tracking in tough environs). Suunto _will_ get there with the Spartan but until then......A3 for me.


----------



## martowl

Philip Onayeti said:


> Shhh...you're not allowed to say that around here.
> 
> But you are right. Some of us have bought the Spartan and have returned or moved it on, and gone back to the trusted Ambit which still has a more complete feature set (and better GPS tracking in tough environs). Suunto _will_ get there with the Spartan but until then......A3 for me.


Sure you are allowed to say that! Hey I get it, I have an A3P and an SSU and I use the SSU.....I have said why many times before but I agree, its (SSU) feature set is not as broad as the Ambit 3. I don't need all the A3 has but there are a few things that I wish the Spartan had. Hopefully soon. Believe me, the Suunto designers and development folks know the issues, whether the marketing staff cares or not and who has the power is another question. No doubt the SSU hardware is amazing but released at least a year too early.


----------



## cageracer

Egika said:


> Why? You want to make sure no data is edited while it is half way synced and thus getting corrupt. Also maybe the processor performance is not high enough for multiple tasks.
> Just speculation, but I don't find this a critical limitation.


Because it gives no indication to the user what's going on. It just flashes up 'synchronising' briefly and kicks you out of the menu. If there was some actual information given to the user why that menu was inaccessible it would be welcome, but it's current implementation is frankly, stupid.


----------



## martowl

cageracer said:


> Because it gives no indication to the user what's going on. It just flashes up 'synchronising' briefly and kicks you out of the menu. If there was some actual information given to the user why that menu was inaccessible it would be welcome, but it's current implementation is frankly, stupid.


The manual does say when syncing the watch needs to be left on the time screen or it will not sync. This apparently caused a lot of problems because initially the watch did NOT kick you out of other menus. Suunto solved that problem and the solution was to flash synchronizing and kick you back into the time menu or one that can sync. Seems pretty obvious to me and it is documented in the manual so I disagree that it is a stupid implementation.


----------



## Jaka83

cageracer said:


> I just changed my notification settings to allow content on lockscreen but it doesn't help. All I get is the subject line of an email, no content. Likewise SMS etc.


Did you check the notification settings in the Movescount app on your phone? Open the app, select "Watch" from the "hamburger menu", press "Settings", press "Notification settings" at the very top and see which notifications the Movescount app actually forwards to your watch.


----------



## Egika

Jaka83 said:


> cageracer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you check the notification settings in the Movescount app on your phone? Open the app, select "Watch" from the "hamburger menu", press "Settings", press "Notification settings" at the very top and see which notifications the Movescount app actually forwards to your watch.
> 
> 
> 
> Just that quote was not from me
Click to expand...


----------



## Jaka83

The forum does not work with multiple quotes, sorry. You were being quoted by cageracer and I quoted his quote of you and his reply ... the forum script panicked.


----------



## pizzaslut

Amazon has the white Ultra with the HR strap for a hair under $350 new.


----------



## cmbauer

pizzaslut said:


> Amazon has the white Ultra with the HR strap for a hair under $350 new.


I was just looking at this as well. I bought the trainer and it will be here tomorrow just got the overnight shipping email from UPS. I am not too excited the more I hear about it, I am thinking it will be too small. I might snap up a Sport WHR or Those Black Ultras are hard to pass up. I just like the OHR for some reason. Trying to talk myself out of it and convince myself there is no need for it. Strap on mY Schosche and and good to go. CHOICES!!!!!!! UGH


----------



## pizzaslut

How much is the black ultra going for again? I think the Ultra is too big for me, but I am worried that the Sport HR might be to big also or else I'd have one on order right now. So for sure you are receiving yours tomorrow?


----------



## cmbauer

pizzaslut said:


> How much is the black ultra going for again? I think the Ultra is too big for me, but I am worried that the Sport HR might be to big also or else I'd have one on order right now. So for sure you are receiving yours tomorrow?


THe Stealth Titanium is 399 with HRM. That is crazy cheap.

Yeah I have the UPS email and tracking number and I paid extra for next day air.


----------



## pizzaslut

The price for a while model with chest HR(less than the non-HR) is tempting. I rather have a wrist HR as I'm not too serious about HR(and probably forget to wear it). I've only tried the Traverse Ambit3 as the REI in my area only had those models. I didn't really like how the Amibt3 felt on my wrist, but the Traverse(I think Alpha) felt nicer on my wrist(the band design may have helped). I take the Ultra is more like the Ambit3 on the wrist than the traverse?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

pizzaslut said:


> I take the Ultra is more like the Ambit3 on the wrist than the traverse?


I'd say the Spartans are more like the Traverse than like the Ambits. No GPS bulge.

Might depend on how much influence the strap attachment to the watch makes for you, though. (Traverse is a standard watch strap, Spartan still more of a pre-formed one.)


----------



## pizzaslut

I take all Spartans or just Ultra?


----------



## cageracer

martowl said:


> The manual does say when syncing the watch needs to be left on the time screen or it will not sync. This apparently caused a lot of problems because initially the watch did NOT kick you out of other menus. Suunto solved that problem and the solution was to flash synchronizing and kick you back into the time menu or one that can sync. Seems pretty obvious to me and it is documented in the manual so I disagree that it is a stupid implementation.


There's any number of ways that make more sense than this.

Grey out the inaccessible menus for example - used in countless other software interfaces.

Or even just include a message on the screen saying that sub menu is inaccessible while syncing.

It's not hard!

There's also no indication on the watch that it's syncing until you try and access a menu - a small sync icon on the main screen would be helpful.

There's a lot of crappy UI quirks that I find very frustrating after using an Ambit for the last three years and it feels like some half arsed Yum Cha branded thing. Or a Garmin :-d

At least the sync didn't fail after my ride today.


----------



## Egika

There is an icon at the bottom of the screen indicating that it's synching


----------



## cmbauer

pizzaslut said:


> The price for a while model with chest HR(less than the non-HR) is tempting. I rather have a wrist HR as I'm not too serious about HR(and probably forget to wear it). I've only tried the Traverse Ambit3 as the REI in my area only had those models. I didn't really like how the Amibt3 felt on my wrist, but the Traverse(I think Alpha) felt nicer on my wrist(the band design may have helped). I take the Ultra is more like the Ambit3 on the wrist than the traverse?


I am leaning towards the WHR and then when I do Crossfit or other heavier HIIT workouts just strap on schosche

But then again if the WHR are only sampling every 10 minutes, why bother? I AM TORN


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> I take all Spartans or just Ultra?


All of them, they will have very similar sofware.


----------



## pizzaslut

I was asking about if all of the Spartan line was similar to the Traverse in regards to how they sit on the wrist.


----------



## martowl

cageracer said:


> There's any number of ways that make more sense than this.
> 
> Grey out the inaccessible menus for example - used in countless other software interfaces.
> 
> Or even just include a message on the screen saying that sub menu is inaccessible while syncing.
> 
> It's not hard!
> 
> There's also no indication on the watch that it's syncing until you try and access a menu - a small sync icon on the main screen would be helpful.
> 
> There's a lot of crappy UI quirks that I find very frustrating after using an Ambit for the last three years and it feels like some half arsed Yum Cha branded thing. Or a Garmin :-d
> 
> At least the sync didn't fail after my ride today.


As Egika stated, there is a symbol at the bottom of the screen to indicate syncing and the watch kicks you out of menus you should not be in. Frankly I think that is great so the syncs don't fail, relatively foolproof. I would much rather have it set up this way then greyed out menus I may or may not be able to see.

Its relatively foolproof!


----------



## moorery2001

Interesting looking watch.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

pizzaslut said:


> I was asking about if all of the Spartan line was similar to the Traverse in regards to how they sit on the wrist.


I'd say yes, but I only have the SSU and a Traverse. The Trainer is smaller, obviously


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

cmbauer said:


> I am leaning towards the WHR and then when I do Crossfit or other heavier HIIT workouts just strap on schosche
> 
> But then again if the WHR are only sampling every 10 minutes, why bother? I AM TORN


That 10 minutes sampling is in the 24-hour HR tracking, not during sports. (Might be clear to you and I'm misunderstanding - in that case, apologies.)

But, if you have a Scosche (and not an absolute need for HR tracking during the non-workout part of the day), I'd go for a non-WHR system. Tends to be inaccurate and to work very differently for different people, anyways...

(Okay, I'd be interested in sleep HR tracking, for example... but these things tend to be given up after not too much time, anyways.)


----------



## martowl

pizzaslut said:


> I was asking about if all of the Spartan line was similar to the Traverse in regards to how they sit on the wrist.


This might help, a photo from FB of an ultra and trainer on the same wrist. the ultra is thicker than the sport but both have the exact same diameter. And a second photo with the steel bezel trainer, which if I were purchasing one would be my choice


----------



## sb029111

martowl said:


> This might help, a photo from FB of an ultra and trainer on the same wrist. the ultra is thicker than the sport but both have the exact same diameter. And a second photo with the steel bezel trainer, which if I were purchasing one would be my choice


Odd, the Trainer looks quite a bit smaller in not only diameter, but the actual watch face/lettering appears to be much smaller. I think I'll keep my Ultra..


----------



## pizzaslut

Compare to the ultra and in pictures the regular black Trainer isn't that good looking. The steel model on the other hand looks nicer than the pictures.


----------



## cmbauer

pizzaslut said:


> Compare to the ultra and in pictures the regular black Trainer isn't that good looking. The steel model on the other hand looks nicer than the pictures.


It really isnt. Looks cheap, I am guessing that is how the price point was made. Feels like a solid piece of plastic though. Will not be mistaken for a high end device that is for sure. I am packing my up to return right now. I am going to swoop up a Spartan Sport WHR


----------



## pizzaslut

Any reason you going for the Sport HR? And how much?


----------



## t1sugar

It appears this august / September update will not be for the SSU after all and we have to wait for the October update (if were lucky), the update is just for the trainer, I must say I am getting a bit tired of Suunto's approach to existing Spartan Users especially as its been a year, After being a PROUD Suunto user for at least 12 years and as many products over that time They have finally disappointed me enough to seriously consider other watch brands in the future.


----------



## PTBC

t1sugar said:


> It appears this august / September update will not be for the SSU after all and we have to wait for the October update (if were lucky), the update is just for the trainer, I must say I am getting a bit tired of Suunto's approach to existing Spartan Users especially as its been a year, After being a PROUD Suunto user for at least 12 years and as many products over that time They have finally disappointed me enough to seriously consider other watch brands in the future.


That doesn't sound good

Where do you see this?


----------



## t1sugar

its on the suunto website "updates for suunto spartan"

I haven't posted enough to post links unfortunately
Here is what it says  


SUUNTO SPARTAN TRAINER SOFTWARE UPDATE 1.10.28

We are excited to release the first software update for the Suunto Spartan Trainer. The new features and improvements in the 1.10.28 version are


Sleep tracking
Do not disturb mode
Improved battery indicator
Additional bug fixes and performance improvements
At the same time, we are bringing performance enhancements improving pairing and connectivity to the Suunto Movescount App.

The sleep tracking functionality will continue to be developed and will be introduced to the Suunto Spartan Ultra, Spartan Sport and Spartan Sport Wrist HR later this autumn. This is planned to happen in conjunction with the Outdoor-focused update currently scheduled for October.


----------



## t1sugar

We may still get a minor bug fix update which I would appreciate if it tackles the altimeter and gps offset, but the above statement from suunto doesn't inspire confidence that it will happen before october.


----------



## martowl

t1sugar said:


> We may still get a minor bug fix update which I would appreciate if it tackles the altimeter and gps offset, but the above statement from suunto doesn't inspire confidence that it will happen before october.


It sounded as if we would get an update, not surprised about the sleep tracking, I would like to see the reboot bug completely squashed. It is nearly gone but not completely as @BobMiles has been have a few issues. Luckily not me.


----------



## t1sugar

Fingers are crossed, for me personally I am not that bothered about sleep tracking as I dont wear a watch for bed, but I have read others feel it's a lacking feature so for those owners it may be a bit disappointing.


----------



## JMann2380

Love my ABC Suunto


----------



## t1sugar

I am really looking forward to the outdoor specific update, I would have liked suunto to at least tell us what outdoor features they will be adding / working on adding and to sort out bugs. when I cycle the gps in my area works fantastic (the bezel pointing toward the sky) but when I run or any other activity where the bezel primarily points in one direction I get the offset. I wondered whether or not taking into account what wrist the watch was used on and the software take that into account would improve the situation, I think garmin does this, whether its for the same reasons im not sure but kinda makes sense to account for that (at least in my head  )

As mentioned I sincerely hope they do release a bug fix update before October in keeping with what they stated approx 4 weeks ago.


----------



## pizzaslut

Does the Trainer already have the outdoor features or will that be updated to that also? Maybe we can each leave a fedback with suunto on their page or what not all saying something similar that the group wants to see added or fixed?


----------



## BobMiles

I too hope they'll provide the announced Bugfix update ASAP... I'm really getting tired of suunto pushing things back while announcing the opposite...


----------



## MichelleWater

cmbauer said:


> It really isnt. Looks cheap, I am guessing that is how the price point was made. Feels like a solid piece of plastic though. Will not be mistaken for a high end device that is for sure. I am packing my up to return right now. I am going to swoop up a Spartan Sport WHR


Any reason for returning it?


----------



## PTBC

t1sugar said:


> its on the suunto website "updates for suunto spartan"
> 
> I haven't posted enough to post links unfortunately
> Here is what it says
> 
> 
> SUUNTO SPARTAN TRAINER SOFTWARE UPDATE 1.10.28
> 
> We are excited to release the first software update for the Suunto Spartan Trainer. The new features and improvements in the 1.10.28 version are
> 
> 
> Sleep tracking
> Do not disturb mode
> Improved battery indicator
> Additional bug fixes and performance improvements
> At the same time, we are bringing performance enhancements improving pairing and connectivity to the Suunto Movescount App.
> 
> The sleep tracking functionality will continue to be developed and will be introduced to the Suunto Spartan Ultra, Spartan Sport and Spartan Sport Wrist HR later this autumn. This is planned to happen in conjunction with the Outdoor-focused update currently scheduled for October.


so 1st 2 don't really apply to all watches, but 2nd two I would hope to see before October

sleep tracking - only really applies to watches with HR so understandable it's limited
DND mode - spartan already has that so maybe just catch up for Trainer
Improved battery indicator - yes and why thats taken a year is beyond belief
bugfixes - would hope they have been fixing bugs across the platform and there is hopefully a common codebase to some degree

The wording doesn't explicitly rule out a release for other watches, but can see that it's confusing to say the least.


----------



## wydim

t1sugar said:


> Fingers are crossed, for me personally I am not that bothered about sleep tracking as I dont wear a watch for bed, but I have read others feel it's a lacking feature so for those owners it may be a bit disappointing.


lol, when I read your reply I was expecting to read : "for me personally I am not that bothered about sleep tracking as I dont _sleep_, ..." :-d


----------



## t1sugar

wydim said:


> lol, when I read your reply I was expecting to read : "for me personally I am not that bothered about sleep tracking as I dont _sleep_, ..." :-d


LOL, Indeed, if "she that must be obeyed" has her way I wouldn't be sleeping at all. just servicing her nibs's needs


----------



## pizzaslut

Did the spartan line ever gain the navigate back to start feature that the Ambit3 line offered?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

pizzaslut said:


> Did the spartan line ever gain the navigate back to start feature that the Ambit3 line offered?


Yes. You go to the breadcrumb track you've recorded and follow it back until you're at the start again.

No. You can't hit "track back" and get waypoints along the track back added automatically (but then, since you don't yet get waypoint nav on a route with the Spartan, that's kinda a moot point).

Which is the answer you choose and why?

(Addendum: There is a "find back" direct to start, as the crow flies, which gets added to - read: after - the breadcrumb track nav display.)


----------



## pizzaslut

Im not sure what you mean which is the answer I choose.


----------



## silentvoyager

I haven't been following this for a while. Is it finally a good time to buy SSU? I am tempted considering the 25% sale.

By the way both François D'haene, the winner of this year UTMB, and Kilian Jornet, who took the 2nd place, were wearing SSU for the race. Both are Salomon and Suunto athletes. Guess what, their devices appear to show empty battery on the finish photos. Their finish time was just above 19 hours. So much for the promised battery life! I bet that wasn't a problem with Ambit3 Peak in previous years.


----------



## Egika

silentvoyager said:


> I haven't been following this for a while. Is it finally a good time to buy SSU? I am tempted considering the 25% sale.
> 
> By the way both François D'haene, the winner of this year UTMB, and Kilian Jornet, who took the 2nd place, were wearing SSU for the race. Both are Salomon and Suunto athletes. Guess what, their devices appear to show empty battery on the finish photos. Their finish time was just above 19 hours. So much for the promised battery life! I bet that wasn't a problem with Ambit3 Peak in previous years.


What do you expect them to wear?
And what battery level do you expect after 19h if SSU claims to have battery for 18h?

To answer your question: it is time to buy anything if it fulfill your needs and is worth the money for you.
Noone here can answer this for you. Some hijinks even 100€ is too much for a GPS sports watch and others would buy any crap for incredible money. Both is fine.


----------



## pizzaslut

A few 3rd party amazon retailers also have good deal this weekend on the SSU. I was for a hot moment leaning that way, but trying a watch the was similar size to the the F3(but way heavier), I've personally ruled out the SSU, and the Sport HR as those would be a little to large on my hand(and probably taste). I'm just now wondering if the extra is worth it for the steel or do I go ocean color, hmm.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

pizzaslut said:


> Im not sure what you mean which is the answer I choose.


Don't meant to be rude, just that the issue of a track back can be answered yes or no, and it depends on what you want/expect whether you see it as being there or not (as you want it).

I'd honestly be interested in hearing your thoughts; I see people complain about a lack of trackback quite a bit and still tend towards the Suunto way of thinking, which is that trackback = breadcrumb track, ergo it is there already (but I've overlooked other ways of seeing things before, and I'm always interested in those)


----------



## Egika

silentvoyager said:


> In the finish photos. [/FONT][/COLOR]Their finish time was just above 19 hours. So much for the promised battery life! I bet that wasn't a problem with Ambit3 Peak in previous years.


Btw. This is the move of the race
http://www.movescount.com/fr/moves/move174834878


----------



## Unperson

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Don't meant to be rude, just that the issue of a track back can be answered yes or no, and it depends on what you want/expect whether you see it as being there or not (as you want it).
> 
> I'd honestly be interested in hearing your thoughts; I see people complain about a lack of trackback quite a bit and still tend towards the Suunto way of thinking, which is that trackback = breadcrumb track, ergo it is there already (but I've overlooked other ways of seeing things before, and I'm always interested in those)


During a move the breadcrumb works just fine. But if you stop the move because you've arrived at a camping spot, lake, bird-watching platform, or whatever, you lose that track. To me trackback means I can go to tracks on the watch and track back utilising the breadcrumb of a previous move. This is as of yet not an option on the Spartan. All the data is in the watch, you just cannot use it. I think I've read somebody mentioning this was a feature on the Ambit so I hope this is still on the list of things to add for Suunto. Seems like a good candidate for the outdoor release to me.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Unperson said:


> During a move the breadcrumb works just fine. But if you stop the move because you've arrived at a camping spot, lake, bird-watching platform, or whatever, you lose that track. To me trackback means I can go to tracks on the watch and track back utilising the breadcrumb of a previous move. This is as of yet not an option on the Spartan. All the data is in the watch, you just cannot use it. I think I've read somebody mentioning this was a feature on the Ambit so I hope this is still on the list of things to add for Suunto. Seems like a good candidate for the outdoor release to me.


Okay, that's not trackback (as per Suunto/Garmin-speak), but "navigation from logbook". Which, yes, the Ambits have become able to do but the Spartan cannot do (yet, hopefully). Considering that the Spartans don't have waypoint navigation yet, that will probably take longer than October's update, but yeah, it would be a good feature.


----------



## pizzaslut

As I suggested maybe we should message Suunto and ask them to bring some of these features back. I already tweeted them twice(about two different thing) this week.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Egika said:


> Btw. This is the move of the race
> 19:19 h Trail running de kilianjornet Move


Which looks like the Spartan recorded the whole thing. With an offset and recorded points so close by each other, it must have been on best GPS. For which 18 hours of battery life are stated in the key features...


----------



## Jaka83

And he probably had the screen off just to be sure.

The thing that bugs me on MC is the speed readings ... in the summary it says 91,8 km/h max in the bracket, then on the graph it shows a spike of 46,4 km/h. This kind of anomalies happen to me a lot when cycling - the max speeds don't match on the graph and in the summary.

Anyway, that is an impressive race.


----------



## rweaves6

Hi guys, 1st post in this thread. I'm a Garmin 935 owner and I love the watch. As far as I can tell it works flawlessly. I'm mainly a runner and hiker and I love how sleek and light the watch is. It is the same watch as a Fenix 5 but plastic (which I like because it's lighter). This most likely sounds odd but I just don't like the looks of the watch and I think the SSU is much better looking. 

Anyways, I just ordered a SSU and I was wondering if it does anything better than the Garmin? I don't mean that as joke, I'm genuinely curious. I'd love to make this watch work but I'm not optimistic. Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## likepend1

Egika said:


> Btw. This is the move of the race
> 19:19 h Trail running de kilianjornet Move


here's Francois Dhaene (stopped at 17h:43min): https://www.strava.com/activities/1166772964/overview


----------



## Egika

likepend1 said:


> here's Francois Dhaene (stopped at 17h:43min): https://www.strava.com/activities/1166772964/overview


Which nicely shows the 18h is realistic


----------



## bruceames

I think the GPS "good" mode would work well for most 100 milers as Martowl stated. Looking at his track it records the tight turns pretty well. It's probably much better than the Fenix 2nd best GPS setting and certainly better that the 5 sec option in the Ambit 3. Most ultras are done primarily in open areas so this "good" mode looks like something that people are overlooking. Maybe Killian was using it?


----------



## martowl

silentvoyager said:


> I haven't been following this for a while. Is it finally a good time to buy SSU? I am tempted considering the 25% sale.
> 
> By the way both François D'haene, the winner of this year UTMB, and Kilian Jornet, who took the 2nd place, were wearing SSU for the race. Both are Salomon and Suunto athletes. Guess what, their devices appear to show empty battery on the finish photos. Their finish time was just above 19 hours. So much for the promised battery life! I bet that wasn't a problem with Ambit3 Peak in previous years.


i have done some long moves and races with Good fix and screen sleep. A 20h finish left me with a bit over 40% of the battery! I estimated about 40h with this set up. It does not seem to help as much with Best fix where I routinely get 17-18h. Let me know if you need links to moves or more info. Autolap is another battery reducer and this was true in the Ambits. I had to do a lot of tweaking to get to the stated Ambit battery life in my ultras. Very, very happy with the Spartan on good fix and screen sleep.


----------



## cmbauer

MichelleWater said:


> Any reason for returning it?


Yeah the trainer is just too small for me. The screen is hard to read. it was comfortable, but too small. Sent Back to Suunto


----------



## dragon_unleashed

martowl said:


> i have done some long moves and races with Good fix and screen sleep. A 20h finish left me with a bit over 40% of the battery! I estimated about 40h with this set up. It does not seem to help as much with Best fix where I routinely get 17-18h. Let me know if you need links to moves or more info. Autolap is another battery reducer and this was true in the Ambits. I had to do a lot of tweaking to get to the stated Ambit battery life in my ultras. Very, very happy with the Spartan on good fix and screen sleep.


Do any of you have some more settings tips?

I got my Spartan Sport wrist HR today.. after all the stories about it being huge, I got kinda worried since I don't have particulary large wrists, but turns out the watch is a decent fit, not too big at all, love how it looks.

just had it updated, synced and charged.. now its almost time to go to bed :S

but to get it straight , the "Good" setting at gps is ..uhm good ..  ?

ah another question how does one calibrate the compas? I'm a complete noob with this

uploaded some routes though which I will try shortly to see how the navigation options work..

I did put on a screenprotector though.. just to be sure, since I'll be wearing it all the time. Fits and works like a charm...

Do the phone notifications suck a lot of juice out of the battery? cause I don't particulary care for it, but the app seemed to insist almost :S


----------



## Jaka83

I'll use the quote to answer a few. But do note that I have the Ultra, so things might be a bit different.


dragon_unleashed said:


> Do any of you have some more settings tips?
> 
> I got my Spartan Sport wrist HR today.. after all the stories about it being huge, I got kinda worried since I don't have particulary large wrists, but turns out the watch is a decent fit, not too big at all, love how it looks.
> 
> just had it updated, synced and charged.. now its almost time to go to bed :S
> 
> but to get it straight , the "Good" setting at gps is ..uhm good ..  ?
> You need to test this one out using the same route with a bigger sample pool. GPS signal varies from day to day and there are a lot of factors, not just the watch.
> 
> ah another question how does one calibrate the compas? I'm a complete noob with this
> I don't bother with the compass, since the watch works perfectly without calibrating it. You'll need to calibrate it every time after you connect the charger or sync it via cable. But if you really want to do it, then go to "Settings->Navigation->Calibrate compass", then just grab your watch in your hand and twist it in a figure 8 motion - it's quick and easy.
> 
> uploaded some routes though which I will try shortly to see how the navigation options work..
> It is basic for now, with the exception of the vertical route profile which is the best thing since sliced bread.
> 
> I did put on a screenprotector though.. just to be sure, since I'll be wearing it all the time. Fits and works like a charm...
> I've been wearing mine all the time for a year now (except when I go to sleep) without a screen protector and I sometimes bump into metal things and sometimes even rocks while hiking - not a scratch (SSU All Black Titanium mind you, but the screen is basically the same).
> 
> Do the phone notifications suck a lot of juice out of the battery? cause I don't particulary care for it, but the app seemed to insist almost :S
> With notifications and standby light on all the time, mine drains about 7% per day without exercising. Your drainage should be a bit bigger, considering the smaller battery.


I hope I helped a bit.


----------



## dragon_unleashed

Jaka83 said:


> I hope I helped a bit.


Wow, thanks a lot for taking the time and answering all of 'm , really appreciate it 

Can't wait to try this baby out 

Thanks again


----------



## Egika

dragon_unleashed said:


> I did put on a screenprotector though.. just to be sure, since I'll be wearing it all the time. Fits and works like a charm...


No need for this imo. The sapphire glass is harder than anything except diamond. That means it can only be scratched by diamonds and other sapphires. Mine takes quite some abuse but the glass is flawless.


> Do the phone notifications suck a lot of juice out of the battery? cause I don't particulary care for it, but the app seemed to insist almost :S


They do but not from the notification itself. It's the backlight switching on with every message that eats the battery.
I have set my backlight from automatic to toggle. This way it stays off. If I want to read a notification or the watch in the dark I just tap with two fingers to switch the light on. Added benefit: it then stays on as long as I like and switch it off again with another two fingers tap.

Enjoy your new gadget!


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> I'll use the quote to answer a few. But do note that I have the Ultra, so things might be a bit different.
> 
> I hope I helped a bit.


Thanks Jaka83!!


----------



## martowl

Egika said:


> No need for this imo. The sapphire glass is harder than anything except diamond. That means it can only be scratched by diamonds and other sapphires. Mine tale quite some abuse but the glass is flawless.
> They do but not from the notification itself. It's the backlight switching on with every message that eats the battery.
> I have set my backlight from automatic to toggle. This way it stays off. If I want to read a notification or the watch in the dark I just tap with two fingers to switch the light on. Added benefit: it then stays on as long as I like and switch it off again with another two fingers tap.
> 
> Enjoy your new gadget!


Agreed and thanks for the backlight tip....time to try that one out.


----------



## martowl

dragon_unleashed said:


> Do any of you have some more settings tips?
> 
> I got my Spartan Sport wrist HR today.. after all the stories about it being huge, I got kinda worried since I don't have particulary large wrists, but turns out the watch is a decent fit, not too big at all, love how it looks.
> 
> but to get it straight , the "Good" setting at gps is ..uhm good ..  ?
> 
> :S


I wanted to be clear on this, you have the Sport. It does not have a barometric altimeter. Unless you record on Best fix you will get no real-time elevation data. In Good or OK fixes you will get data on the website after syncing but not in real-time. My 40h comment was for the Ultra not Sport.


----------



## dragon_unleashed

Egika said:


> No need for this imo. The sapphire glass is harder than anything except diamond. That means it can only be scratched by diamonds and other sapphires. Mine takes quite some abuse but the glass is flawless.
> 
> They do but not from the notification itself. It's the backlight switching on with every message that eats the battery.
> I have set my backlight from automatic to toggle. This way it stays off. If I want to read a notification or the watch in the dark I just tap with two fingers to switch the light on. Added benefit: it then stays on as long as I like and switch it off again with another two fingers tap.
> 
> Enjoy your new gadget!


Thanks, I know, but with my luck, I'll probably trip and fall somewere with my watch on a diamond someone lost of their wedding ring haha..

No but seriously though, I'd rather be sure.. this watch is the most expensive watch i ever bought, something i thought I'd never do, so I'd rather be safe then sorry..

And to be honest I've used cheap screenprotectors before, and they either went bubbly or just fell off but this thing.. you don't even see it..

Thanks for the toggle idea, I'll try that..



martowl said:


> I wanted to be clear on this, you have the Sport. It does not have a barometric altimeter. Unless you record on Best fix you will get no real-time elevation data. In Good or OK fixes you will get data on the website after syncing but not in real-time. My 40h comment was for the Ultra not Sport.


Yeah thanks buddy, I know I got the Sports but this is the most active subforum of suunto here, and since the sports is similar except for the barometric altimeter and much better batterylife , I thought further settings would be similar. And I knew I would get some nice advices from you all.

Hmmm that good fix was without altitude I didn't know, but may I ask.. what would be the advantage of having that.. being an occasional runner? Seriously don't know? Would the distance runned be more accurate?

Just had a quick 5km run.. my running app said 5km, watch said 4.79km ..

Thanks a lot guys for your help, really appreciate the time you took to help!


----------



## pizzaslut

Saw this on google, what strap is on this spartan model? http://www.suunto.com/globalassets/...to-spartan-sport-wrist-hr-gold-closeup-01.jpg


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

pizzaslut said:


> Saw this on google, what strap is on this spartan model? http://www.suunto.com/globalassets/...to-spartan-sport-wrist-hr-gold-closeup-01.jpg


Should be this one: White and gold silicone strap kit for Suunto Spartan Sport watch


----------



## martowl

dragon_unleashed said:


> Yeah thanks buddy, I know I got the Sports but this is the most active subforum of suunto here, and since the sports is similar except for the barometric altimeter and much better batterylife , I thought further settings would be similar. And I knew I would get some nice advices from you all.
> 
> Hmmm that good fix was without altitude I didn't know, but may I ask.. what would be the advantage of having that.. being an occasional runner? Seriously don't know? Would the distance runned be more accurate?
> 
> Just had a quick 5km run.. my running app said 5km, watch said 4.79km ..
> 
> Thanks a lot guys for your help, really appreciate the time you took to help!


Again to be clear, my run was with the Ultra, the link is here. It does not matter what fix you use with the Ultra, it has a barometric altimeter so altitude is recorded at the recording frequency selected. I had 46% battery left after this move.


----------



## sb029111

martowl said:


> Again to be clear, my run was with the Ultra, the link is here. It does not matter what fix you use with the Ultra, it has a barometric altimeter so altitude is recorded at the recording frequency selected. I had 46% battery left after this move.


I think this might have been answered before, but I can't find the thread, I'm using a MiCoach footpod, and it has calibrated pretty well, I believe, but I am wondering, now that it is calibrated, what happens if I go for a hike/walk/run in an area with heavy tree cover, and the GPS fix isn't good? Will the footpod re-calibrate with the bad GPS info, (the manual says it will recalibrate with every run/hike/walk/etc. How can I stop this? Not use the "Best" GPS fix, and if I do, will this affect the track?


----------



## Egika

Suunto says it will only calibrate with best GPS setting and sufficient accuracy (reception). This is not an exact measure but they obviously thought about it.


----------



## sb029111

Egika said:


> Suunto says it will only calibrate with best GPS setting and sufficient accuracy (reception). This is not an exact measure but they obviously thought about it.


I also have a Fenix 5, and I wish Suunto would implement the ability to manually calibrate the footpod. We have an olympic ice skating oval here with a running track around it. Each lane is calibrated with exact (to the hundredth of a mile) distance, and it was pretty easy to get the F5 spot on with a few times around the track, and then changing the offset. It would surely boost my confidence in the distances traveled, now, I can only "check" the distance on the oval.. Oh well, I think when I get it pretty close, I'll just use best outside, if I'm in a "not-so-good" GPS reception area.
Thanks for the info!


----------



## pizzaslut

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Should be this one: White and gold silicone strap kit for Suunto Spartan Sport watch


Is there a different in comfort/feel of the strap vs the standard one, because it looks different shape wise.


----------



## vervloet

In watch 

in "Do not distub mode" when I want to see the time, I press any button..

I think better to see the time, press two times with my finger on the display.


----------



## Egika

sb029111 said:


> I also have a Fenix 5, and I wish Suunto would implement the ability to manually calibrate the footpod. We have an olympic ice skating oval here with a running track around it. Each lane is calibrated with exact (to the hundredth of a mile) distance, and it was pretty easy to get the F5 spot on with a few times around the track, and then changing the offset. It would surely boost my confidence in the distances traveled, now, I can only "check" the distance on the oval.. Oh well, I think when I get it pretty close, I'll just use best outside, if I'm in a "not-so-good" GPS reception area.
> Thanks for the info!


I would rather trust a calibration that is adjusted to a good GPS measurement.
Your foot pod's accuracy changes if you climb or decent and also varies with your running speed or style (fatigueness). If you always run flat and similar speed, a one time calibration should be ok.
If you don't, I like the constant calibration.


----------



## martowl

sb029111 said:


> I think this might have been answered before, but I can't find the thread, I'm using a MiCoach footpod, and it has calibrated pretty well, I believe, but I am wondering, now that it is calibrated, what happens if I go for a hike/walk/run in an area with heavy tree cover, and the GPS fix isn't good? Will the footpod re-calibrate with the bad GPS info, (the manual says it will recalibrate with every run/hike/walk/etc. How can I stop this? Not use the "Best" GPS fix, and if I do, will this affect the track?


Egika answered this but I will chime in that the MiCoach is not very good at that sort of thing. I have one and was disappointed. The Milestone is inexpensive and better IMHO. The best is the Stryd but it is not just a footpod. The Milestone is easy to manually calibrate via its app, check it out.


----------



## sb029111

martowl said:


> Egika answered this but I will chime in that the MiCoach is not very good at that sort of thing. I have one and was disappointed. The Milestone is inexpensive and better IMHO. The best is the Stryd but it is not just a footpod. The Milestone is easy to manually calibrate via its app, check it out.


I thought about a Milestone, but it seems that it is "always on" if you wear it on your "regular" shoes. I only have one pair of shoes that I use for everything, weights, classes, yoga, biking, etc, and it seems the battery wouldn't last very long that way. They're cheap enough, I might try one, but the main thing would be if the SSU will recognize it and the data it produces.


----------



## martowl

sb029111 said:


> I thought about a Milestone, but it seems that it is "always on" if you wear it on your "regular" shoes. I only have one pair of shoes that I use for everything, weights, classes, yoga, biking, etc, and it seems the battery wouldn't last very long that way. They're cheap enough, I might try one, but the main thing would be if the SSU will recognize it and the data it produces.


It works with the SSU and is not hard to put on and take off of a pair of shoes. I routinely use one pair of shoes at work and one at home. I simply remove and re-attach the thing. It works as a normal footpod with the Spartans with firmware that was updated late summer. It is not as good as the Stryd but seems much better than the miCoach.


----------



## sb029111

martowl said:


> It works with the SSU and is not hard to put on and take off of a pair of shoes. I routinely use one pair of shoes at work and one at home. I simply remove and re-attach the thing. It works as a normal footpod with the Spartans with firmware that was updated late summer. It is not as good as the Stryd but seems much better than the miCoach.


Well, I went ahead and bit the bullet and ordered one. What the heck, it was only $29, and it doesn't eat, so we'll give it a try.. Thanks for the input, I 'preciate the info.


----------



## martowl

sb029111 said:


> Well, I went ahead and bit the bullet and ordered one. What the heck, it was only $29, and it doesn't eat, so we'll give it a try.. Thanks for the input, I 'preciate the info.


Let me know if you have any more questions. The app on the phone for the Milestone gives a bunch of interesting metrics..footstrike, etc.


----------



## whz

I have a stupid question: On Movescount there is the Running - Race sport mode described as 


> Designed for running a marathon or test run of any distance. Set a target distance and/or duration to follow your progress during the race in real time. Autolaps of 1 km (1 mile) give you regular alerts. This mode stores the run with Move type 'race' so you can compare your race performances over time.


I have tried for quite some time now, but where do I set target distance and duration?? In the options of the sport mode on the watch I can set some duration target but a distance target is nowhere to be found?!


----------



## PTBC

whz said:


> I have a stupid question: On Movescount there is the Running - Race sport mode described as
> 
> I have tried for quite some time now, but where do I set target distance and duration?? In the options of the sport mode on the watch I can set some duration target but a distance target is nowhere to be found?!


You can't, one of the 'features' Suunto has not updated the watch firmware to include, can only hope that the fact they have left it in the descriptions etc. means they intend to implement it at some point. The heart rate zone version of targets has even has had a screen shot (assume it's a mockup) showing this since the launch last year.

Not a stupid question, but not exactly smart behavior by Suunto, there was some discussion awhile back that programmatically this doesn't seem like a difficult thing to add (distance) as the watch just has to substitute distance values for time values, the display function doesn't change as it's effectively a % of target indicator already, so why it's been left off is anyone's guess


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> It works with the SSU and is not hard to put on and take off of a pair of shoes. I routinely use one pair of shoes at work and one at home. I simply remove and re-attach the thing. It works as a normal footpod with the Spartans with firmware that was updated late summer. It is not as good as the Stryd but seems much better than the miCoach.


Just received one and it seems a neat device
Not sure if anyone can answer but does it replace the metrics on the watch now there is real time metrics?, so the cadence value shown on the screen is now the footpod value not the wrist based measure as there doesn't seem to be an option to pick it separately


----------



## martowl

whz said:


> I have a stupid question: On Movescount there is the Running - Race sport mode described as
> 
> I have tried for quite some time now, but where do I set target distance and duration?? In the options of the sport mode on the watch I can set some duration target but a distance target is nowhere to be found?!


Duration but not distance can be set. After selecting race scroll down to Targets and set the target time. The outer green ring will show target progression during your move.


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> Just received one and it seems a neat device
> Not sure if anyone can answer but does it replace the metrics on the watch now there is real time metrics?, so the cadence value shown on the screen is now the footpod value not the wrist based measure as there doesn't seem to be an option to pick it separately


Good question! I know that Pace and Distance will come from the Pod. Don't know about cadence.


----------



## jeremy1271

martowl said:


> Good question! I know that Pace and Distance will come from the Pod. Don't know about cadence.











If you're talking about the Milestone pod, the answer seems to be: yes.


----------



## Egika

jeremy1271 said:


> View attachment 12487423
> 
> 
> If you're talking about the Milestone pod, the answer seems to be: yes.


I read: no all watches show all metrics...
That does not answer how Suunto handles the incoming data and if it shows the cadence from the pod or the internal one.
A test could be giving the watch to another runner right next to you who is on a totally different stride. Then check the display


----------



## jeremy1271

Egika said:


> I read: no all watches show all metrics...
> That does not answer how Suunto handles the incoming data and if it shows the cadence from the pod or the internal one.
> A test could be giving the watch to another runner right next to you who is on a totally different stride. Then check the display


True but in the milestone Pod website, they wrote that the Spartan Ultra is compatible with real time data:

MilestonePod New Firmware release enables the Pod to connect as a real-time BLE foot pod - MilestonePod


----------



## Egika

jeremy1271 said:


> True but in the milestone Pod website, they wrote that the Spartan Ultra is compatible with real time data:
> 
> MilestonePod New Firmware release enables the Pod to connect as a real-time BLE foot pod. - MilestonePod


Which still leaves the question open what the display of the watch shows... Compatible does not mean all of the data is necessarily used.

I am with you thinking cadence is displayed from the pod. But this information from MilestonePod does not fully answer it imo.


----------



## mramon

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this but, do you know if it's possible to decide what parameters are made public in movescount? Thanx


----------



## martowl

mramon said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to ask this but, do you know if it's possible to decide what parameters are made public in movescount? Thanx


I believe it is all private or all public. Except coaching, which can be made public with private data. Movescount does not show your exact home location, just a name and it does not show any personal information.


----------



## mbouhy

I bought a suunto spartan ultra in February 2017 and it is, to this day, my worst purchase. I bought it for its look, its resistance, its autonomy and its precision.
Apart from the autonomy level, I was very disappointed on all other points. Its biggest problem is that on the titanium version, suunto just put a thin layer of black paint on the ring around the screen (I thought buying it was "black metal"). The result is that the slightest claw is seen enormously. After 6 months of normal use, it looks like a used watch watch. I find that scandalous. I should have taken at least the non-titanium version or the claws would not have seen (in fact, I would have even had to choose a garmin fenix 5). The second big problem is the accuracy of the GPS mainly in open water swimming. It is unusable, the trace makes zigzags and I always more than double the distance traveled. When I contacted suunto to warn them and to do something, they told me that they were well aware of these problems but that he did not know how to do anything. I find this deplorable and I wanted to point it out to potential buyers.

 bought a suunto spartan ultra in February 2017 and it is, to this day, my worst purchase. I bought it for its look, its resistance, its autonomy and its precision.Apart from the autonomy level, I was very disappointed on all other points. Its biggest problem is that on the titanium version, suunto just put a thin layer of black paint on the ring around the screen (I thought buying it was "black metal"). The result is that the slightest claw is seen enormously. After 6 months of normal use, it looks like a used watch watch. I find that scandalous. I should have taken at least the non-titanium version or the claws would not have seen (in fact, I would have even had to choose a garmin fenix 5). The second big problem is the accuracy of the GPS mainly in open water swimming. It is unusable, the trace makes zigzags and I always more than double the distance traveled. When I contacted suunto to warn them and to do something, they told me that they were well aware of these problems but that he did not know how to do anything. I find this deplorable and I wanted to point it out to potential buyers.


----------



## Egika

I have a copper titanium version which I bump regularly and it does not show any marks on the bezel or glass yet.
Also open water swimming works fine for me. It is essential to have a swimming style where your arm leaves the water regularly (breast stroke doesn't work). For my amateur freestyle it tracks just right.
For these demanding application it makes sense to start the GPS a few minutes ahead of the swim for the GPS receiver to acquire enough satellites as well.
And yes, Suunto cannot do much about it. It's about physics...


----------



## martowl

Egika said:


> I have a copper titanium version which I bump regularly and it does not show any marks on the bezel or glass yet.
> Also open water swimming works fine for me. It is essential to have a swimming style where your arm leaves the water regularly (breast stroke doesn't work). For my amateur freestyle it tracks just right.
> For these demanding application it makes sense to start the GPS a few minutes ahead of the swim for the GPS receiver to acquire enough satellites as well.
> And yes, Suunto cannot do much about it. It's about physics...


Nice, I have the Stealth version and mine is heavily used. It has scratches but they do not show too much and the Sapphire is perfect....the glass is what really matters to me. I think the Stealth has the natural Titanium without anodization. When I had a black Ambit a Sharpie would fix the scratches and last quite some time.


----------



## martowl

FYI Those with iPhones. iOS 11 beta is working with no issues AFIK with the latest app update. So don’t worry about updating and Spartan compatibility


----------



## Sobul

It sounds very good...Maybe 12th of September will be time to change my old iPhone 5s...I love my Spartan Ultra!


----------



## SUPmission

Jaka83 said:


> And he probably had the screen off just to be sure.
> 
> The thing that bugs me on MC is the speed readings ... in the summary it says 91,8 km/h max in the bracket, then on the graph it shows a spike of 46,4 km/h. This kind of anomalies happen to me a lot when cycling - the max speeds don't match on the graph and in the summary.
> 
> Anyway, that is an impressive race.


Same here. But its not movescount making the error but the watch sensor readings in some congested areas. I use it for paddle boarding and each time passing under motorway bridges, the speed record spikes off the roof messing the real average. Wish we can edit and normalize those spikes!!

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## PTBC

Went for a short run and according to the watch I did 3.1km, according to the synced milestone pod it was 3.5km, exported the move to the route planner and I get 3.7km, exporting to mygpsfiles it's 3.8km.
Along the seawall so open sky and the track visual looks ok
Not at all sure what's going on as the watch is supposed to be displaying realtime footpod data and it showed 3.1km and Suunto's own routeplanner reads the GPS track as 3.7km, % wise it's a significant error. pace wise I was running faster than it showed which would support the longer distances being correct. This sort of inconsistency is frustrating
Have a 14km race tomorrow so that's going to be interesting to see what it reports for that


----------



## Egika

The MilestonePod needs to be calibrated internally. You would have to enter the correct mileage for the run into the app.
The Suunto auto calibrates the pod. If you change the factor in the pod, the watch will have to calibrate it again..
Why the distance of the track differs so much from the watch distance I don't know...


----------



## kralik_j

Swimming in open water (sea or lake, open pool) is absolutely horrible and sure not usable. No matter clear sky, gpx fix a few min before swimming etc

1year I'm waiting:
- POI(notification if poi is close or not hit, distance to poi on planed way and aprox time) in navigation, 
- storm alarm, 
- visible temperatur during workout
- Graphs in user set up screen





Suunto IT team what are you doing 1year!


----------



## frenitirati

kralik_j said:


> Swimming in open water (sea or lake, open pool) is absolutely horrible and sure not usable. No matter clear sky, gpx fix a few min before swimming etc
> 
> 1year I'm waiting:
> - POI(notification if poi is close or not hit, distance to poi on planed way and aprox time) in navigation,
> - storm alarm,
> - visible temperatur during workout
> - Graphs in user set up screen
> Suunto IT team what are you doing 1year!


It's true, there's so much work to do :-(
visibile temperature during workout is possible with activity personalization


----------



## scandium48

I go back 20 years with Suunto, experiencing the early GPS watches Suunto X9 and X10 (which I thought were amazing for the time), went through a few Suunto Cores, and went through the Ambit series but stopped at Ambit Peak to try Polar and Garmin last few years. Ive been watching this thread in hopes the Suunto Spartan Ultra went through growing pains, and decided a week ago after 4 years away to jump back in as my local MEC store had their last Ultra Titanium on for a huge discount demo sale. I have to say...wow. Ive done about 4 bike rides, 2 road runs, and a big trail run since purchase - and Im not sure if I just got a good one, but its been purely amazing. Im finding the route planning, custom profiles (nice to finally have a SUP sport profile!), barometric weather trend graph, speed of connection to my Samsung S7, and colour touch screen and options is just awesome. The custom profiles in each sport is excellent. My biggest test was my trail run, where I wore my always pretty accurate Polar V800 with a similar downloaded route, and the Suunto was right on par with all the 1km lap notifications, but the most amazing Im finding is how fast the GPS acquires satellites. My polar has hit the north shore trails with me for the past year, but on its first time the Suunto was ready to go 3 seconds after hitting Trail Run. I had to sit and wait for the V800 for about a minute. Im sure there will be more features updated, but for me, couldnt be better so far. Im travelling to Finland next year and was hoping to visit the Suunto factory for a tour, so am pleased to be able to do it with a Suunto (although might have had to wear my old Suunto X6M HR as a back up). Glad with my purchase so far.


----------



## sb029111

scandium48 said:


> I go back 20 years with Suunto, experiencing the early GPS watches Suunto X9 and X10 (which I thought were amazing for the time), went through a few Suunto Cores, and went through the Ambit series but stopped at Ambit Peak to try Polar and Garmin last few years. Ive been watching this thread in hopes the Suunto Spartan Ultra went through growing pains, and decided a week ago after 4 years away to jump back in as my local MEC store had their last Ultra Titanium on for a huge discount demo sale. I have to say...wow. Ive done about 4 bike rides, 2 road runs, and a big trail run since purchase - and Im not sure if I just got a good one, but its been purely amazing. Im finding the route planning, custom profiles (nice to finally have a SUP sport profile!), barometric weather trend graph, speed of connection to my Samsung S7, and colour touch screen and options is just awesome. The custom profiles in each sport is excellent. My biggest test was my trail run, where I wore my always pretty accurate Polar V800 with a similar downloaded route, and the Suunto was right on par with all the 1km lap notifications, but the most amazing Im finding is how fast the GPS acquires satellites. My polar has hit the north shore trails with me for the past year, but on its first time the Suunto was ready to go 3 seconds after hitting Trail Run. I had to sit and wait for the V800 for about a minute. Im sure there will be more features updated, but for me, couldnt be better so far. Im travelling to Finland next year and was hoping to visit the Suunto factory for a tour, so am pleased to be able to do it with a Suunto (although might have had to wear my old Suunto X6M HR as a back up). Glad with my purchase so far.


I totally agree with you, I have both an SSU, and a fenix 5, and I have to say, the GPS tracks from the Spartan Ultra are spot on, and the elevations are within 3 or 4 feet of the data at an elevation site that I use. I couldn't ask for a better GPS track, and unlike my Fenix 5 (which sits in a drawer until they fix the disconnects/GPS problems) the Suunto stays connected throughout a class, activity, weight workout, whatever. The data is uninterupted, and for me, that really counts. Not to mention the instant EPOC, Recovery time, and training load on Movescount as soon as you upload, and the gauge of how much recovery you have left on the face of the Ultra. The GPS tracks on the Spartan Ultra (I have the all black Titanium model) are right on track, and SO MUCH smoother than the tracks on my fenix, and oddly enough, the Garmins just released a public beta that updates to provide all day stress (how do they do that with only wrist heart rate? No R-R intervals on WHR), reps and sets for weight training, and some other stuff to make it prettier, but didn't address the disconnect issues, nor the GPS performance.
I'm in the same boat with you, I love the SSU, and am seriously considering selling the F5, although it is rather pretty....


----------



## martowl

scandium48 said:


> I go back 20 years with Suunto, experiencing the early GPS watches Suunto X9 and X10 ......and was hoping to visit the Suunto factory for a tour, so am pleased to be able to do it with a Suunto (although might have had to wear my old Suunto X6M HR as a back up). Glad with my purchase so far.


Well written and I have to agree with you, I go back close to 30 years with Vector, x9, x10, T6, T6c, Ambit1 ,2 ,3 and now Spartan. I have not had issues with my Spartan and even though it does not have all the features of the A3P yet, I am very happy with mine. The screen is amazing, I can red 5 fields without my glasses. Sure there are a few omissions but I am selling my A3P.


----------



## pizzaslut

I sent some feedback to Suunto via twitter and they replied, "we heard same suggestion from other users. Rest assured their feedback are not falling on deaf ears. - Carl." I think if we all tweet them similar things, we could maybe at least get something? It may work..


----------



## cleanton

I have Suunto Spartan Ultra since few months. Just noticed that when I sync the watch with movescount, data transferred is not the same as in the logbook. 

HR on the logbook is 140 bpm, on the movescount it's 135 bpm. Cadence on the logbook is 64 rpm, on the movescount it's 67 rpm. 

Is there any fix for that?


----------



## Philip Onayeti

I had noticed this as well. I put it down to reprocessing in Movescount. Ambit data seems not to be reprocessed.


----------



## bruceames

I haven't noticed any difference in my average HR at the end of a move, and what it says on Movescount later. It it always the same (although sometimes it goes up or down one if there was a change at the end of a move I didn't notice). I never look to see what the logbook says.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Anyone had a problem where the Spartan says it is syncing and won't let you into any menu when clearly it is not (i.e no sync icon on screen and no BT active). I had to do a reset to get it right again.


----------



## FGD

Hi,

I would have a question. I am using an app for 10 km distance countdown, but my problem is that once distance is completed the timer does not stop automatically, I have to press stop button to finish the training. 
Is there any way to stop the stopwatch/timer automatically at the moment once the distance countdown is over? 

Thanks a lot.

br,
FGD


----------



## PTBC

scandium48 said:


> I go back 20 years with Suunto, experiencing the early GPS watches Suunto X9 and X10 (which I thought were amazing for the time), went through a few Suunto Cores, and went through the Ambit series but stopped at Ambit Peak to try Polar and Garmin last few years. Ive been watching this thread in hopes the Suunto Spartan Ultra went through growing pains, and decided a week ago after 4 years away to jump back in as my local MEC store had their last Ultra Titanium on for a huge discount demo sale. I have to say...wow. Ive done about 4 bike rides, 2 road runs, and a big trail run since purchase - and Im not sure if I just got a good one, but its been purely amazing. Im finding the route planning, custom profiles (nice to finally have a SUP sport profile!), barometric weather trend graph, speed of connection to my Samsung S7, and colour touch screen and options is just awesome. The custom profiles in each sport is excellent. My biggest test was my trail run, where I wore my always pretty accurate Polar V800 with a similar downloaded route, and the Suunto was right on par with all the 1km lap notifications, but the most amazing Im finding is how fast the GPS acquires satellites. My polar has hit the north shore trails with me for the past year, but on its first time the Suunto was ready to go 3 seconds after hitting Trail Run. I had to sit and wait for the V800 for about a minute. Im sure there will be more features updated, but for me, couldnt be better so far. Im travelling to Finland next year and was hoping to visit the Suunto factory for a tour, so am pleased to be able to do it with a Suunto (although might have had to wear my old Suunto X6M HR as a back up). Glad with my purchase so far.


Sounds like we are in the same area, hopefully you'll see better results than me, I'm on my second Spartan after the issues with the first one led to a warranty replacement and while it's better it still has issues, mainly inconsistency. Last weeks Coho Run was spot on, most of the the km markers were within 5m of the autolap, but a hike around Lynn cannyon and the headwaters this weekend was all over the place, including missing the first 2km for some reason, thats when I looked at the track and saw it wasn't recording anything, went into multisport and switched from hike to walk activity and it started tracking, but poorly.


----------



## TheRunningDaddy

FGD said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would have a question. I am using an app for 10 km distance countdown, but my problem is that once distance is completed the timer does not stop automatically, I have to press stop button to finish the training.
> Is there any way to stop the stopwatch/timer automatically at the moment once the distance countdown is over?


I'm not sure whether it's bug of feature  I have SSSWHR for two weeks now and I found this thing a bummer. There should be either STOP (as you suggest) or at least signal+vibration alert. Having only visual display of "circle fulfillment" showing target completion is ridiculously stupid. Should I look at watch all the time and checked whether I reached my time goal. I hope not...


----------



## sb029111

PTBC said:


> Sounds like we are in the same area, hopefully you'll see better results than me, I'm on my second Spartan after the issues with the first one led to a warranty replacement and while it's better it still has issues, mainly inconsistency. Last weeks Coho Run was spot on, most of the the km markers were within 5m of the autolap, but a hike around Lynn cannyon and the headwaters this weekend was all over the place, including missing the first 2km for some reason, thats when I looked at the track and saw it wasn't recording anything, went into multisport and switched from hike to walk activity and it started tracking, but poorly.


If that's the Lynn Canyon in Vancouver, BC, it looks pretty forested, and under what I see as that dense of tree cover, your GPS coverage is going to be spotty, and not nearly as consistent as in clear open sky. If, however you're not in that Lynn Canyon, and the watch has a good open sky look all the time, I'd be concerned. Heck, here in Utah, we have a park that has pretty dense tree cover around a peripheral trail, and both, my SSU and my Fenix 5 give "odd" results, but on the trails where there are no trees, or riding the bike, I get spot on tracks. Although, I don't know what kind of tree coverage you had for your Coho run, was it less dense, forest wise?


----------



## SuuntoFan

So give it to me straight gang, is there _any_ chance of an Ambit 4 being on the horizon? I don't care one bit for color screens, touch screen fanciness, GPS antennae tucked away in the bezel, etc when it sacrifices battery life and GPS accuracy. I just desperately want an updated Ambit that gets 30 hours+ battery on 1 sec recording, bang on GPS accuracy like the A3 Peak, enough internal memory to store 100 hours' of waypoints at 1 second recording and the characteristically accurate Suunto barometric altimeter. Maybe incorporate some features from the A3 Vertical like showing weekly elevation gain on a graph.

I figure with technological improvements since 2014 when the A3 came out Suunto could throw something like this together relatively quickly. I know there's a big market for color screens and step counters and all the latest stuff but I also know there's a market for a "bare bones" accurate, reliable training watch with best in class battery life and GPS accuracy. I could be wrong but isn't the A3 Peak still the best battery life and near-the-top GPS accuracy three years later? Kudos to Suunto for competing with Garmin on its feature laden turf but why not improve on the Ambit line where Suunto is already king?


----------



## Egika

SuuntoFan said:


> So give it to me straight gang, is there _any_ chance of an Ambit 4 being on the horizon? I don't care one bit for color screens, touch screen fanciness, GPS antennae tucked away in the bezel, etc when it sacrifices battery life and GPS accuracy. I just desperately want an updated Ambit that gets 30 hours+ battery on 1 sec recording, bang on GPS accuracy like the A3 Peak, enough internal memory to store 100 hours' of waypoints at 1 second recording and the characteristically accurate Suunto barometric altimeter. I also know there's a market for a "bare bones" accurate, reliable training watch with best in class battery life and GPS accuracy. I could be wrong but isn't the A3 Peak still the best battery life and near-the-top GPS accuracy three years later?


Wrong thread - but if A3P is still best in class and fulfills your requirements - why asking for a successor?


----------



## buenosbias

SuuntoFan said:


> So give it to me straight gang, is there _any_ chance of an Ambit 4 being on the horizon? I don't care one bit for color screens, touch screen fanciness, GPS antennae tucked away in the bezel, etc when it sacrifices battery life and GPS accuracy. I just desperately want an updated Ambit that gets 30 hours+ battery on 1 sec recording, bang on GPS accuracy like the A3 Peak, enough internal memory to store 100 hours' of waypoints at 1 second recording and the characteristically accurate Suunto barometric altimeter. Maybe incorporate some features from the A3 Vertical like showing weekly elevation gain on a graph.
> 
> I figure with technological improvements since 2014 when the A3 came out Suunto could throw something like this together relatively quickly. I know there's a big market for color screens and step counters and all the latest stuff but I also know there's a market for a "bare bones" accurate, reliable training watch with best in class battery life and GPS accuracy. I could be wrong but isn't the A3 Peak still the best battery life and near-the-top GPS accuracy three years later? Kudos to Suunto for competing with Garmin on its feature laden turf but why not improve on the Ambit line where Suunto is already king?


That's exactly what I would love Suunto to do!


----------



## SuuntoFan

Egika said:


> Wrong thread - but if A3P is still best in class and fulfills your requirements - why asking for a successor?


Because three years after its introduction the A3P is still my favorite running watch and I'd love to see an updated Ambit with technological improvements from the past three years.


----------



## martowl

SuuntoFan said:


> Because three years after its introduction the A3P is still my favorite running watch and I'd love to see an updated Ambit with technological improvements from the past three years.


Some of us prefer the Spartan over the A3P, I do and the battery on the Spartan with screen time out and Good fix is better than A3P on Good fix and IMHO better tracking on the Spartan than the 5 sec tracks on the A3P...winner for me. I think with the October update there will be few areas where the A3P exceeds, and the Spartan will be the updated Ambit with tech improvements. Seems that the Spartan will have real ETE and ETA where it estimates time from the route drawn and not as the crow flies. I can't see Suunto making an Ambit 4 with less capability than the Spartan.


----------



## aldburg

Optimizing GPS Performance keeps failing when I try to sync my watch. This is a new problem for me. I reset the watch and it still didn't fix it. I also tried to sync it from another computer using an older suuntosync and that didn't fix it either. Anyone else having problems with syncing the GPS?
***Called Suunto - Apparently my GPS drivers for the watch under SGEE are "N/A" which explains why it can't find GPS. Logs are sent to specialist and now waiting to see what they are going to do. Has anyone traveled with their Suunto spartan through TSA security? This only became a problem after traveling***


----------



## dragon_unleashed

aldburg said:


> Optimizing GPS Performance keeps failing when I try to sync my watch. This is a new problem for me. I reset the watch and it still didn't fix it. I also tried to sync it from another computer using an older suuntosync and that didn't fix it either. Anyone else having problems with syncing the GPS?
> ***Called Suunto - Apparently my GPS drivers for the watch under SGEE are "N/A" which explains why it can't find GPS. Logs are sent to specialist and now waiting to see what they are going to do. Has anyone traveled with their Suunto spartan through TSA security? This only became a problem after traveling***


Have the same problem.. suunto link saying gps failed syncing.. and I haven't traveled.. well i did a 2km walk to the mall today with the fam.... problem is not with our watches but probably their servers or something

#edit

I just went outside to see if gps worked..

I pressed training-running and before I could blink it already had gps and heartrate ....

So it's fine.. anoying when connected to pc, but fine when in use


----------



## PTBC

dragon_unleashed said:


> Have the same problem.. suunto link saying gps failed syncing.. and I haven't traveled.. well i did a 2km walk to the mall today with the fam.... problem is not with our watches but probably their servers or something
> 
> #edit
> 
> I just went outside to see if gps worked..
> 
> I pressed training-running and before I could blink it already had gps and heartrate ....
> 
> So it's fine.. anoying when connected to pc, but fine when in use


I've had similar issues, flaky, constant cycling of updates which fail, synced moves though, I've only been swimming this week so GPS not an issue.


----------



## mramon

Do you know if there is a way to manually calibrate de running cadence in SSU? The SSU gives me lower measures than My ambit3, 10 points less and I'm starting to think that is not well calibrated .


----------



## Egika

mramon said:


> Do you know if there is a way to manually calibrate de running cadence in SSU? The SSU gives me lower measures than My ambit3, 10 points less and I'm starting to think that is not well calibrated .


Cadence cannot be calibrated since it is measured from the arm swing. It is a 1:1 ratio from your arm to your feet cadence


----------



## aldburg

Tried syncing my watch again and now the GPS was able to sync.... Flaky Suunto Software


----------



## mramon

Egika said:


> Cadence cannot be calibrated since it is measured from the arm swing. It is a 1:1 ratio from your arm to your feet cadence


So I have to suppose that the SSU has and issue and I should call to Suunto, or perhaps I move my left arm totally different from the other


----------



## Egika

Or your other watch has an issue...?


----------



## mramon

Egika said:


> Or your other watch has an issue...?


Well, the Ambit3 gives me cadences of 75-85 while SSU gives me values of 60-70, both measured at the same time in an easy track. My opinion is that SSU is giving low values


----------



## mramon

New model coming and Software update Oct 17th

http://www.suunto.com/en-US/News/suunto-introduces-spartan-sport-wrist-hr-baro/


----------



## BobMiles

mramon said:


> New model coming and Software update Oct 17th
> 
> http://www.suunto.com/en-US/News/suunto-introduces-spartan-sport-wrist-hr-baro/


Let's hope for the never-crash-feature!

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


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## Pedreiro

Hello,

I have problem with suunto spartan ultra - firmare v1.9.36 - after last update i have problem with hr. My belt is always "disconnected" and in activities watch showing always wrong hr.....I changed battery etc but problem is still the same. I can "pair" the belt but in "paired devices" I always have "not connected". Can I downgrade somehow the firmware or something like this? Maybe the belt is broken? Can U help me guys?  sorry for my english!


----------



## BobMiles

Pedreiro said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have problem with suunto spartan ultra - firmare v1.9.36 - after last update i have problem with hr. My belt is always "disconnected" and in activities watch showing always wrong hr.....I changed battery etc but problem is still the same. I can "pair" the belt but in "paired devices" I always have "not connected". Can I downgrade somehow the firmware or something like this? Maybe the belt is broken? Can U help me guys?  sorry for my english!


Hi!
It will always show disconnected - everything is fine there. Alt least it's the same for me and everything works just fine.
The wrong HR data on the other hand, what is "wrong" in your case? Flatline? Spikes? Just the wrong level?
Maybe a watch reset could help:
Hold middle and upper button for 15 seconds, then release upper button while holding middle button until an arrow pops up. Then connect to pc and follow suuntolink instructions (firmware reflash)

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


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## bruceames

I've been having trouble with the HR flatlining during long moves. Yesterday during a hike it did it at around the 8 hour mark and waiting 5 minutes or so for it to come back but it didn't so I started a new move to bring it back to life. This would be intolerable during a race and I have a 50 miler coming up next month so I'm thinking of playing it safe and wearing the A3P instead. 

Also noticed a big difference in GPS reception in the Yosemite canyons with Glonass ON. I didn't know it was off but I noticed the distance reading was about 15-20% high and I switched it back on when I started the new move. I'll have to make sure that stays on going in the future.


----------



## Pedreiro

BobMiles said:


> Pedreiro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have problem with suunto spartan ultra - firmare v1.9.36 - after last update i have problem with hr. My belt is always "disconnected" and in activities watch showing always wrong hr.....I changed battery etc but problem is still the same. I can "pair" the belt but in "paired devices" I always have "not connected". Can I downgrade somehow the firmware or something like this? Maybe the belt is broken? Can U help me guys?  sorry for my english!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi!
> It will always show disconnected - everything is fine there. Alt least it's the same for me and everything works just fine.
> The wrong HR data on the other hand, what is "wrong" in your case? Flatline? Spikes? Just the wrong level?
> Maybe a watch reset could help:
> Hold middle and upper button for 15 seconds, then release upper button while holding middle button until an arrow pops up. Then connect to pc and follow suuntolink instructions (firmware reflash)
> 
> Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...

For example I?m starting running and my hr is 80 after 3 min it is still 80.....and after 5min it should show something about 130 but I have 160. Then I stop and hr is showing 161,162,162 until 170 and then go down to 150 and stop. It is just example. But the hr measure is always wrong after last update of firmware - before I have no problems with this. Now I can?t run with this hr measure because I?m sure that it?s too high.


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## Jaka83

Do you wear your HR belt too loosely? You should tighten it so it is very snug against your body. Other than that, maybe the belt just got worn out and you need to replace it - the belt, not the battery.

I've been having some "flat-lining" during 6h moves, but it looks like it went away. Maybe it has something to do with how many GPS routes for navigation I have stored in the watch, I can't pinpoint it without excessive testing.


----------



## Pedreiro

Jaka83 said:


> Do you wear your HR belt too loosely? You should tighten it so it is very snug against your body. Other than that, maybe the belt just got worn out and you need to replace it - the belt, not the battery.
> 
> I've been having some "flat-lining" during 6h moves, but it looks like it went away. Maybe it has something to do with how many GPS routes for navigation I have stored in the watch, I can't pinpoint it without excessive testing.


Yes, i wear my HR belt very tighten, maybe it is belt but I bought this watch something about 10 months ago so it is not to early for that? After reinstal the firmware i have the same problem - now when i was starting the activity i had HR=145 what is impossible...Im very disappointed because I change polar v800 for suunto i i have only trouble after that :-(


----------



## kralik_j

mramon said:


> New model coming and Software update Oct 17th
> 
> http://www.suunto.com/en-US/News/suunto-introduces-spartan-sport-wrist-hr-baro/


What is still missing for me:
- Custom screen with curves
- What ascent/descent can expect to the POI, not only ETA and distance (this shuunto should bring 17th October)
From not only weekend MTB is missing a lot:
- The screen with navigation + vertical profile + some small info (speed, etc). On one screeneith these infos can use during all time of workout
- Missing terrain inclination, suunto spartan has colour screen, what about colour visualization of inclination (see link below)
http://cycleroute.org

- Zoom vertical profile in scale example 500m and moving with my movement
- Offline plane track (in android app example) and offline watch synchronization in terrain ( alternative plan)

Movecout
- Missing another map base with mote details (water, views etc details example cykloserver.cz)
- Can't POI import from another web track gpx file


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> I've been having trouble with the HR flatlining during long moves. Yesterday during a hike it did it at around the 8 hour mark and waiting 5 minutes or so for it to come back but it didn't so I started a new move to bring it back to life. This would be intolerable during a race and I have a 50 miler coming up next month so I'm thinking of playing it safe and wearing the A3P instead.
> 
> Also noticed a big difference in GPS reception in the Yosemite canyons with Glonass ON. I didn't know it was off but I noticed the distance reading was about 15-20% high and I switched it back on when I started the new move. I'll have to make sure that stays on going in the future.


HR cut out on my last race....the only long move that happened. The battery and belt are ok.


----------



## BobMiles

bruceames said:


> I've been having trouble with the HR flatlining during long moves. Yesterday during a hike it did it at around the 8 hour mark and waiting 5 minutes or so for it to come back but it didn't so I started a new move to bring it back to life. This would be intolerable during a race and I have a 50 miler coming up next month so I'm thinking of playing it safe and wearing the A3P instead.
> 
> Also noticed a big difference in GPS reception in the Yosemite canyons with Glonass ON. I didn't know it was off but I noticed the distance reading was about 15-20% high and I switched it back on when I started the new move. I'll have to make sure that stays on going in the future.


Try popping out the sensor off the belt and back in. This way it should get picked up again without having to start a new move.
It'll be my first marathon next Sunday and I'll wear both the ultra and A3P. Won't trust the SSU for an important race until I have at least some months without crash.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


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## Jaka83

BobMiles said:


> Try popping out the sensor off the belt and back in. This way it should get picked up again without having to start a new move.
> It'll be my first marathon next Sunday and I'll wear both the ultra and A3P. Won't trust the SSU for an important race until I have at least some months without crash.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


Nope, that doesn't work for me, that was the first thing I tried.


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## Pedreiro

Jaka83 said:


> BobMiles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try popping out the sensor off the belt and back in. This way it should get picked up again without having to start a new move.
> It'll be my first marathon next Sunday and I'll wear both the ultra and A3P. Won't trust the SSU for an important race until I have at least some months without crash.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, that doesn't work for me, that was the first thing I tried.
Click to expand...

I did it too but no result. I?m reading this thread and I think that I will sell this watch - I can?t run with watch which have always problems with hr - it is very import for me. With polar v800 there was no problems with that


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## bruceames

BobMiles said:


> Try popping out the sensor off the belt and back in. This way it should get picked up again without having to start a new move.
> It'll be my first marathon next Sunday and I'll wear both the ultra and A3P. Won't trust the SSU for an important race until I have at least some months without crash.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


Good luck on your first Marathon. My first was the toughest. Are you going to wear two HR straps too?


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## BobMiles

bruceames said:


> Good luck on your first Marathon. My first was the toughest. Are you going to wear two HR straps too?


Thank you!! No I set the A3P to not search for HR. If the SSU fails I can still restart it and at least get a reading for the HR on it. In any other case the A3P would pick up the belt and I wouldn't get a reading on the SSU again.
Suunto support told me to reset the watch with the double button (top two buttons) method to prevent it from crashing again. We'll see...

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


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## T-BOB

New to forum - pardon me if I'm posting incorrectly but wanted to respond to the issues regarding HR - Mine also randomly drops heart rate - flatlines - Suunto said it is a known issue (with all spartan ultras) and they will have it fixed in the next software update. It helped to force firmware update (in SuuntoLink) - I'd get about 3-6 moves then it would happen again, that being said with the last forced reset (again through SuuntoLink) they must of changed something because this time it actually reset the watch (had to re enter settings and such) and haven't had it dropped yet... Suunto said this would help but the fix is indeed coming in a software update - but maybe this will help some of you folks dealing with this same issue.


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## -Laurie-

Hi to everyone one on the forum,
I'm a new member with a new Suunto Spartan Ultra. I like the watch but there is one thing I don't like and it's the gps tracking. I'm hoping you guys can advise me if my watch is defective or that it's just not good enough.
I really only run trails and cross-country, so need good gps in difficult terrain. Here is a screen shot of one of my training routes (flat but tree-lined) This is the best the Spartan could do, I have others that are much worse!

Ambit3 is bottom, middle is a reasonable effort from the Spartan, top... well, it's rubbish.


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## Philip Onayeti

@-Laurie- The first question is do you have GLONASS active? If so, try without it. (And yes, Ambit is still the best in difficult conditions.)


----------



## -Laurie-

Hi Philip, The tracks above are gps only, I tried Glonass over two laps on this route. The first lap was ok, second lap... well, lets just politely say it was really, REALLY bad. I also sync'd with movescount just before the run to get a-gps.
Mmm.. not sure what to do with this watch, I like the intervals feature, the vibration alert and the large watch-face. But if I'm honest it's only the large size that's a big plus for me, I've got by doing intervals, just pressing the lap button, it's more flexible as well because you aren't limited to repeating the same interval length.

I can't figure out why this watch is so expensive, surely the most important feature on a gps watch is accurate gps tacking, everything else is just convenience features.

Maybe wait for the next update. Wiggle (who I ordered it from) have a 1 year return policy


----------



## BobMiles

-Laurie- said:


> Hi Philip, The tracks above are gps only, I tried Glonass over two laps on this route. The first lap was ok, second lap... well, lets just politely say it was really, REALLY bad. I also sync'd with movescount just before the run to get a-gps.
> Mmm.. not sure what to do with this watch, I like the intervals feature, the vibration alert and the large watch-face. But if I'm honest it's only the large size that's a big plus for me, I've got by doing intervals, just pressing the lap button, it's more flexible as well because you aren't limited to repeating the same interval length.
> 
> I can't figure out why this watch is so expensive, surely the most important feature on a gps watch is accurate gps tacking, everything else is just convenience features.
> 
> Maybe wait for the next update. Wiggle (who I ordered it from) have a 1 year return policy


Hi Laurie,

I don't think there will be any improvement in GPS accuracy with the next firmware. Even more, better keep your expectations low. Up to now every single update could not live up to the promises suunto gave.

Regarding the GPS, I have to say it is quite as good ad my A3P. It seems to vary for users in different areas though. 
Surely, an up-to-date SGEE is necessary, but you already checked it on the watch as I understand.

My only hope is that this time, the update will bring more than half baked features. We'll be wiser in two weeks (if they make it).

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


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## -Laurie-

BobMiles said:


> Hi Laurie,
> 
> Regarding the GPS, I have to say it is quite as good ad my A3P.


Hi *BobMiles. *Thanks for the reply. Are you referring to my Ambit3 Run track at the bottom? If my Spartan was that good I'd be really happy.

I'm going to take both watches to a Half Marathon trail run this weekend - open moor and forested areas. I'll also wait for the update, but as you say, I won't expect too much from it.

Still can't understand why it costs so much, when it has inferior gps capabilities compared to an older watch.


----------



## BobMiles

-Laurie- said:


> Hi *BobMiles. *Thanks for the reply. Are you referring to my Ambit3 Run track at the bottom? If my Spartan was that good I'd be really happy.
> 
> I'm going to take both watches to a Half Marathon trail run this weekend - open moor and forested areas. I'll also wait for the update, but as you say, I won't expect too much from it.
> 
> Still can't understand why it costs so much, when it has inferior gps capabilities compared to an older watch.


Hi Laurie,

I'd say my SSU gives tracks in that quality range, yes. However, it really depends on where on earth you are! My A3P shows some quirks as well in the forest,but I never bothered because coming from Garmin I was more than happy.

Now with the SSU everyone started to look more closely and I guess there are physical limitations to an internal antenna. Still, I would not say the GPS quality is bad, it's still on a high level and looks and feel of the watch make up for most of it for me.

The only real issue is reliability and I wouldn't recommend it for races right now.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


----------



## -Laurie-

BobMiles said:


> Hi Laurie,
> 
> I'd say my SSU gives tracks in that quality range, yes. However, it really depends on where on earth you are! My A3P shows some quirks as well in the forest,but I never bothered because coming from Garmin I was more than happy.
> 
> Now with the SSU everyone started to look more closely and I guess there are physical limitations to an internal antenna. Still, I would not say the GPS quality is bad, it's still on a high level and looks and feel of the watch make up for most of it for me.
> 
> The only real issue is reliability and I wouldn't recommend it for races right now.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


That's interesting, reading forums and reviews I get the impression that Garmin is all conquering. Nearly every article I read like 'Best gps watch of the year' or 'best watch for runners' Garmin, Garmin, Garmin. But i've seen terrible gps tracks from a few reviews on watches like the Finex5X etc.

Right now, after eight or so test runs, I'd agree that the Spartan gps tracking isn't consistent enough for an important race. I'm glad you mention that, because I was starting to think along the same lines. Use the Spartan for training runs (around 80%) and my Ambit for races (20%).
If the Spartan gets better then great!


----------



## t1sugar

Does anybody know how to get the planned moves on to my spartan Ultra?  Ive tried this on a number of occasions using both ios movescount app and direct connection to the computer but they never sync and the page on the watch just displays the usual "Plan your training in Movescount"

Also I have noticed on two occasions now when a running activity stopped and uploaded to movescount it has the wrong end point, I start and Stop the activity at the same location but if you check out this move you will see suunto has recorded the stop point much earlier than I actually stopped the activity.

http://www.movescount.com/moves/move180037802

Hope that makes sense, anyone else notice this happening? when movescount transfers to strava it is the same, so it appears that the SSU has made up the end point 

Many thanks in advance
Tony


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## bruceames

Ambit 3 not only has a better antenna but is positioned so that it naturally faces up on your wrist. Basically the more challenging the GPS area is, the greater the difference in track quality between the two watches. So you'll find happier owners in general who run in more open areas, versus those who run (or whatever) in the more challenging forested areas. The SSU will give perfectly fine tracks in open or modestly covered areas and according to Fellrnr.com it is more accurate than any of the Fenix watches.

Glonass is really only useful in areas where there are tall buildings or canyon walls. I did a hike in Yosemite last weekend and it made a huge difference.

Lately I have been having issues with HR flatlines and high readings in the first few minutes of a move, and coupling that with the less accurate GPS, I've decided to use the A3P for long hikes and long races and any move where the greatest accuracy and reliability are required. The screen is not as good but I was very happy with it before the SSU and I'll get used to it again. I'll still use the SSU on most of my training runs.


----------



## BobMiles

t1sugar said:


> Does anybody know how to get the planned moves on to my spartan Ultra?  Ive tried this on a number of occasions using both ios movescount app and direct connection to the computer but they never sync and the page on the watch just displays the usual "Plan your training in Movescount"
> 
> Also I have noticed on two occasions now when a running activity stopped and uploaded to movescount it has the wrong end point, I start and Stop the activity at the same location but if you check out this move you will see suunto has recorded the stop point much earlier than I actually stopped the activity.
> 
> http://www.movescount.com/moves/move180037802
> 
> Hope that makes sense, anyone else notice this happening? when movescount transfers to strava it is the same, so it appears that the SSU has made up the end point
> 
> Many thanks in advance
> Tony


Hi Tony!
For the planned move sync issues, try restarting the watch by holding the upper button for 15 seconds. Once it is done give it another try with the syncing and it should be fine.

I have not experienced the issue where start stop position is wrong but I remember some people have in this forum. It was with an older firmware though and I thought that problem was solved.

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


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## t1sugar

Thanks for the Tip  I have just reset to test.
I am on the Newest Firmware and this has only happened on this version, i.e. i never had this happen on the older firmware, hopefully its few and far between, but like Bruceames I only use the Spartan for training, when I need stability, Accuracy and solid performance I use my Ambit 3 Peak, shame I have to have two watches but as I use the apps on the A3P for my work and no sign SSU will get the ability I have accepted this  but I will be very careful in my next watch purchase for sure.

p.s. the reset solved the planned moves issue  Thanks again, much appreciated.


----------



## martowl

-Laurie- said:


> That's interesting, reading forums and reviews I get the impression that Garmin is all conquering. Nearly every article I read like 'Best gps watch of the year' or 'best watch for runners' Garmin, Garmin, Garmin. But i've seen terrible gps tracks from a few reviews on watches like the Finex5X etc.
> 
> Right now, after eight or so test runs, I'd agree that the Spartan gps tracking isn't consistent enough for an important race. I'm glad you mention that, because I was starting to think along the same lines. Use the Spartan for training runs (around 80%) and my Ambit for races (20%).
> If the Spartan gets better then great!


Sold my A3P, for me the tracks on the Spartan are as good as the Ambit but I live and run where there are not a lot of trees. The only problem I have had is the HR flatline in my last race. Been very stable and the screen for me is worth it. I mostly run by RPE anyway so the HR loss is frustrating but not a gamebreaker. Hopefully fixed in the next update.

I guess I have a different requirement for races. Mine are long enough that I don't need a great GPS track. What I need is accurate times between aid stations to ensure that my pacing is where I need it to be. I would not use GPS for pacing accuracy anyway....I have a Stryd for that.


----------



## wydim

t1sugar said:


> Thanks for the Tip  I have just reset to test.
> I am on the Newest Firmware and this has only happened on this version, i.e. i never had this happen on the older firmware, hopefully its few and far between, but like Bruceames I only use the Spartan for training, when I need stability, Accuracy and solid performance I use my Ambit 3 Peak, *shame I have to have two watches* but as I use the apps on the A3P for my work and no sign SSU will get the ability I have accepted this  but I will be very careful in my next watch purchase for sure.
> 
> p.s. the reset solved the planned moves issue  Thanks again, much appreciated.


I have 2 watches (one analog citizen and my Suunto A2), because they serve a different purpose. I'm very jealous of people who can afford to have 2 "similar" watches for sports-oriented activities. I think it's part of the reason for my "frustration" with the Spartan. I think many people have 2 similar watches because they "need" to cancel the compromise they made when they bought the Spartan. Yes, some have moved on and only kept the Spartan, but many posters have 2,3 or more watches (gamins, suuntos, polars) for the same purpose (tracking sport activities)


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## Egika

wydim said:


> , but many posters have 2,3 or more watches (gamins, suuntos, polars) for the same purpose (tracking sport activities)


I think the main reason to have multiple similar sport watches is because people like gadgets. GAS (gear acquisition syndrome)
If you are honest to yourself you can train and run without any watch at all. People have done this for centuries


----------



## t1sugar

wydim said:


> I have 2 watches (one analog citizen and my Suunto A2), because they serve a different purpose. I'm very jealous of people who can afford to have 2 "similar" watches for sports-oriented activities. I think it's part of the reason for my "frustration" with the Spartan. I think many people have 2 similar watches because they "need" to cancel the compromise they made when they bought the Spartan. Yes, some have moved on and only kept the Spartan, but many posters have 2,3 or more watches (gamins, suuntos, polars) for the same purpose (tracking sport activities)


When I bought the Spartan ULTRA I fully thought I would be able to sell or pass on my A3P and have one watch to do it all, unfortunately from my own perspective and requirements the Spartan hasn't quite fitted the bill, hopefully one day through firmware updates the spartan may be my only watch, but as it stands today I need the additional features and stability the A3P offers particularly for my work.


----------



## bruceames

I have two watches (actually many more than that) because I don't sell my old watches. It's too bad I can't fully rely on my SSU but it is what it is. Thankfully my A3P is a great watch too. It just works. No worries about HR flatlines, poor GPS in tree cover, the need for periodicFW flashing because the logbook is making things go wacky (it happened on a recent run, where my altimeter went crazy), not enough battery life. The A3P (and A2 as well) is extremely reliable and has one of the best GPS antennas on any watch today.


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## Philip Onayeti

It is very much that now the Suunto line has many good watches but with subtly different features. I still prefer my Ambit2 Sapphire for wilderness scrub-bashing trips as the navigation to waypoints on a route is still more user friendly in that terrain.


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## ragandbones

Dear All, Here is my problem with Suunto Spartan Ultra. Started sync with movescount app via bluetooth (iPhone 7 ). Seconds after i got many notifications (sametime sms, Facebook likes and email). SSU screen become black - but I am pretty sure that it had some battery power left. I connected it to power via cable usb (macbook air iOS 10.12.6) but nothing happend. After few minutes i hold top button for 12s for restart. No reaction. After that i thought about force update. Pressed for 12s top and middle button. Moveslink give me information that Suunto Spartan Ultra must have a reset to fix error. In the middle of update Suunto Spartan Ultra got black again. Update failed. That happend few times in a row. I reinstaled Moveslink, iphone app, also tried to run update on Windows Notebook. No reaction, Suunto Spartan Ultra wont start.


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## -Laurie-

martowl said:


> Sold my A3P, for me the tracks on the Spartan are as good as the Ambit but I live and run where there are not a lot of trees. The only problem I have had is the HR flatline in my last race. Been very stable and the screen for me is worth it. I mostly run by RPE anyway so the HR loss is frustrating but not a gamebreaker. Hopefully fixed in the next update.
> 
> I guess I have a different requirement for races. Mine are long enough that I don't need a great GPS track. What I need is accurate times between aid stations to ensure that my pacing is where I need it to be. I would not use GPS for pacing accuracy anyway....I have a Stryd for that.


Got good improvement with tracking yesterday at Dalby Forest Half Marathon, very heavy forested areas and open spaces. I put the watch more on the side of my wrist and padded the strap with bit of black cloth. More like the position on a bike handle bar, didn't look that odd and the gps track was almost perfect.

Will test it out again on my training routes, but looks promising!! Very happy.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

-Laurie- said:


> I put the watch more on the side of my wrist and padded the strap with bit of black cloth.


Pleased to hear things have improved. The "workaround" with the padding places the antenna in a position not dissimilar to the Ambit's. It is why the Ambit is so good compared to everything else out there.


----------



## BobMiles

ragandbones said:


> Dear All, Here is my problem with Suunto Spartan Ultra. Started sync with movescount app via bluetooth (iPhone 7 ). Seconds after i got many notifications (sametime sms, Facebook likes and email). SSU screen become black - but I am pretty sure that it had some battery power left. I connected it to power via cable usb (macbook air iOS 10.12.6) but nothing happend. After few minutes i hold top button for 12s for restart. No reaction. After that i thought about force update. Pressed for 12s top and middle button. Moveslink give me information that Suunto Spartan Ultra must have a reset to fix error. In the middle of update Suunto Spartan Ultra got black again. Update failed. That happend few times in a row. I reinstaled Moveslink, iphone app, also tried to run update on Windows Notebook. No reaction, Suunto Spartan Ultra wont start.
> 
> View attachment 12563347
> 
> 
> View attachment 12563349
> 
> 
> View attachment 12563351


Hi!
I had the same a while ago! Try reinstalling suuntolink and another USB port. It took some tries but I got the flash through and no issues since then!

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk


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## ragandbones

I tried reinstal, system reboot, different ports, even a different notebook with windows rather than iOS. Same error at the same percentage level of update


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## Joakim Agren

ragandbones said:


> I tried reinstal, system reboot, different ports, even a different notebook with windows rather than iOS. Same error at the same percentage level of update


Seems your Spartan is bricked. Before returning it for repair try the following to force a FW update. Connect watch to computer and make sure Suunto Link is running then hold upper button in for 12 seconds and at the same time hold the middle button in as well. After 12 seconds your Spartan should reboot but if you keep holding in the middle button it will enter force firmware update mode. Now next step is to go into Suunto link and select Gear icon> WATCHES>force software update. After this if all is well the FW update should continue like normal and all memory in the watch will be erased so you will need to restore everything the way you want them.

If this do not work your watch is broken and need service!:rodekaart:-(


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## ragandbones

That is exactly what I try to do. Updated crashes after few minutes and watch's screen becomes black again.


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## Deckard79

Hi folks,

Quick question (as an owner of a Spartan Ultra).

Is it possible ot have the watch to display my average (mins/seconds per mile) pace shown on the display calculated over *the entire duration *of my run to that point?

All I can do at the moment is an average speed that seems to jump all over the place, so presumably the pace is shown calculated over the past however many seconds, or for each GPS update. That's just no good for me.

For example - if I run a 10K, and I know I want to hit an overall pace of 7.30 to hit my target completion time, where will the watch tell me this?

I tried downloading some activities, but they don't show up.


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## myhandle

My Spartan Ultra shows a run overall average speed on the 2nd screen, I'm not sure if that's something I have customised, but the field is certainly available to you one way or another.

Just checked on Movescount and the 2nd screen of my Basic Running mode has 'Average Pace'. I believe that this is the overall average, rather than an instant pace.


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## BobMiles

Deckard79 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Quick question (as an owner of a Spartan Ultra).
> 
> Is it possible ot have the watch to display my average (mins/seconds per mile) pace shown on the display calculated over *the entire duration *of my run to that point?
> 
> All I can do at the moment is an average speed that seems to jump all over the place, so presumably the pace is shown calculated over the past however many seconds, or for each GPS update. That's just no good for me.
> 
> For example - if I run a 10K, and I know I want to hit an overall pace of 7.30 to hit my target completion time, where will the watch tell me this?
> 
> I tried downloading some activities, but they don't show up.


I can recommend the setting I use for races:
Average Pace | Heart Rate
Current lap average pace | Distance
Time

So you have the full distance average on top of the current lap average. Of course, current lap avg pace will be jumpy at the start of each lap (1km for me), but it will ease in and you can compare to your overall average. Usually one knows what pace to go for the race and current km.

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## bruceames

I put the average metrics on the second screen (overall pace, lap pace, overall HR, total ascent) and on the primary face I have HR, altitude, distance, current pace). 

I had the power metrics but my Stryd fell off during a run but really I don't even miss it. I hardly ever checked power anyway since it was so jumpy and thus not very reliable. Anyway I use HR and RPE for pacing and for races I use HR even more for pacing because I have a good idea of what my average HR will be for a given distance and generally try to stay within that range, especially in the first half.


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## Pegasus

Have they given up on updates now? It’s been a long time since the last and the deadlines keep passing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Egika

Pegasus said:


> Have they given up on updates now? It's been a long time since the last and the deadlines keep passing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oct. 17


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## martowl

Deckard79 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Quick question (as an owner of a Spartan Ultra).
> 
> Is it possible ot have the watch to display my average (mins/seconds per mile) pace shown on the display calculated over *the entire duration *of my run to that point?
> 
> All I can do at the moment is an average speed that seems to jump all over the place, so presumably the pace is shown calculated over the past however many seconds, or for each GPS update. That's just no good for me.
> 
> For example - if I run a 10K, and I know I want to hit an overall pace of 7.30 to hit my target completion time, where will the watch tell me this?
> 
> I tried downloading some activities, but they don't show up.


Here is my setup for Ultras, this provides an average pace for the entire run. It will be more accurate if you use a Stryd, especially for the short fast races you do. My races are sufficiently long that even at a Good GPS fix I get a fairly accurate pace. For 25 and 50 mile races (shorter for me) I use my Stryd as a footpod.


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## Deckard79

Sorry for taking a while to respond, and thanks everyone for your replies.

I hadn't figured out how to manually change the default (first) screen for an activity, but thanks to your help I now know how to do that and have it displaying the info I need!

Thanks again.


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## cageracer

Did a 10 day bike packing trip recently, averaging 7 hours a day of riding. The SSU was pretty annoying.

My HRM kept disconnecting mid ride and the only way I could get it to reconnect was to stop the move and start a whole new one (tried pausing, didn't work). And of course I ended up with multiple separate moves for the same bloody ride.

On three occasions I had to re-pair it with my phone for some reason. The phone would see the SSU but not connect - if I tried it would say 'already paired' or something like that.

And some moves didn't synch immediately - they'd synch a few hours later or the next day when I completed a new move.

Anyone have any solutions to any of these issues? It's really giving me the ****s about what should be a great watch.


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## snowleopardw

Deporte por Vida: Actualización de firmware de Octubre 2017 para Suunto Spartan


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## gggg10

It came. 

Poslano sa mog E6653 koristeći Tapatalk


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## gggg10

Looks nice and promising.
Let's do some accuracy and stability testing...

Poslano sa mog E6653 koristeći Tapatalk


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## kralik_j

Not yet available update, i have checked it 3x today



gggg10 said:


> Looks nice and promising.
> Let's do some accuracy and stability testing...
> 
> Poslano sa mog E6653 koristeći Tapatalk


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## Deckard79

kralik_j said:


> Not yet available update, i have checked it 3x today


Likewise - not seeing anything as yet. Sure it won't be long though.


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## martowl

cageracer said:


> Did a 10 day bike packing trip recently, averaging 7 hours a day of riding. The SSU was pretty annoying.
> 
> My HRM kept disconnecting mid ride and the only way I could get it to reconnect was to stop the move and start a whole new one (tried pausing, didn't work). And of course I ended up with multiple separate moves for the same bloody ride.
> 
> On three occasions I had to re-pair it with my phone for some reason. The phone would see the SSU but not connect - if I tried it would say 'already paired' or something like that.
> 
> And some moves didn't synch immediately - they'd synch a few hours later or the next day when I completed a new move.
> 
> Anyone have any solutions to any of these issues? It's really giving me the ****s about what should be a great watch.


Supposed to be fixed now. Download the update.


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## kralik_j

Great update. 

Still missing:
- not only ETA but the distance or rest of cumulative ascent to POI
- Grade up and down for mtb customize example
- In customize mode missing option for curve 
- wish the screen with navigation and profile screen and speed or distance or customize statement on one screen 

Big issue for me that isn't option on movecount see POI after import track with poi from another map vase
Movecount is very poor map base regarding POI planning (water, view, bungalov,mountain saddle, etc)

Is some idea how to get easy poi to movecount?


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## Deckard79

Hmm, still not seeing the update.


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## martowl

Deckard79 said:


> Hmm, still not seeing the update.


Go to the thread on the update and download the files. Do not decompress the zip files and drag the file over the gear icon, this will update the watch. That is how I did mine.


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## Egika

martowl said:


> Go to the thread on the update and download the files. Do not decompress the zip files and drag the file over the gear icon, this will update the watch. That is how I did mine.


And if you are on a Mac: make sure that Safari doesn't unpack the zip and puts it in the trash. Then drag the zip over the watch face in Suuntolink


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## sb029111

martowl said:


> Go to the thread on the update and download the files. Do not decompress the zip files and drag the file over the gear icon, this will update the watch. That is how I did mine.


Gotta mention to, that for Apple users, do NOT use Safari to do the download. I did, and tried repeatedly to get it to update. Tried it with Firefox, and it updated first time. I even tried to re-zip the files that I downloaded with Safari, and it still wouldn't work. Safari automagically expands a zip file that is downloaded. 
Hope that saves a couple Apple users some degree of frustration..


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## Egika

sb029111 said:


> Gotta mention to, that for Apple users, do NOT use Safari to do the download. I did, and tried repeatedly to get it to update. Tried it with Firefox, and it updated first time. I even tried to re-zip the files that I downloaded with Safari, and it still wouldn't work. Safari automagically expands a zip file that is downloaded.
> Hope that saves a couple Apple users some degree of frustration..


Safari is fine. Just recover the zip file from trash as mentioned before.


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## martowl

sb029111 said:


> Gotta mention to, that for Apple users, do NOT use Safari to do the download. I did, and tried repeatedly to get it to update. Tried it with Firefox, and it updated first time. I even tried to re-zip the files that I downloaded with Safari, and it still wouldn't work. Safari automagically expands a zip file that is downloaded.
> Hope that saves a couple Apple users some degree of frustration..


It is actually much easier than that, if you do use Safari to download, the option that Egika mentioned works or simply right click and select "Download linked file" from the choices. Safari will not automatically decompress the Zip file.


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## bruceames

A question about using Stryd as a footpod: Is it better to have the GPS autocalibrate on hilly trail runs? And if so, will I get current pace data from the watch, that is just as accurate and consistent as if auto-calibrate were set to off? I don't see any difference in have auto-calibration set to on or off in relatively open area where the GPS is 99% accurate anyway. The main foot pod benefit is having accurate pacing, and not having the total distance be 0.5% more accurate. Will I get that accurate pacing whether it's on or off?


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## cageracer

Updated the new firmware and went for a ride today. There's some funny stuff going on with my HRM. There would be long-ish periods where my HR didn't change (at least my HR as displayed by the watch) which was clearly inconsistent from my workload. There were also times where the HR was clearly incorrect - reading 196 BPM at low-moderate exertion, or 88 when I was working hard.

The interesting thing is, none of these anomalies have been recorded - my peak HR for the ride was 176 on Movescount, and I can only see one very brief period with a straight line HR, which is when I paused the move and re-started it I think.

What the .... Suunto?

Also had to un-and-re-pair the bloody watch again!

GRRR!!!

(I do like the sync now has a progress indicator, it's still slow as .... though)


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## martowl

bruceames said:


> A question about using Stryd as a footpod: Is it better to have the GPS autocalibrate on hilly trail runs? And if so, will I get current pace data from the watch, that is just as accurate and consistent as if auto-calibrate were set to off? I don't see any difference in have auto-calibration set to on or off in relatively open area where the GPS is 99% accurate anyway. The main foot pod benefit is having accurate pacing, and not having the total distance be 0.5% more accurate. Will I get that accurate pacing whether it's on or off?


Don't autocalibrate Bruce, the Stryd is likely more accurate than GPS, check out fellrnr. For ultras and trails I do not think there is any way to calibrate the footpod.


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## bruceames

martowl said:


> Don't autocalibrate Bruce, the Stryd is likely more accurate than GPS, check out fellrnr. For ultras and trails I do not think there is any way to calibrate the footpod.


OK I'll test it out this morning and hope for the best. Don't really see any benefit to get a tiny bit more accuracy at the risk of possible dropouts (which would negate it) in open GPS areas, but I am curious.


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## Egika

bruceames said:


> OK I'll test it out this morning and hope for the best. Don't really see any benefit to get a tiny bit more accuracy at the risk of possible dropouts (which would negate it) in open GPS areas, but I am curious.


Don't expect any change in GPS accuracy with the latest update. The algorithms behind the ascended and descended altitude have changed (measured from the pressure sensor - not the the GPS)


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## bruceames

martowl said:


> Don't autocalibrate Bruce, the Stryd is likely more accurate than GPS, check out fellrnr. For ultras and trails I do not think there is any way to calibrate the footpod.


Stryd as a footpod without calibration did pretty good. I was a little skeptical on a course with 4300 feet of elev gain (and another 4300 in elev loss), but it pretty much matched the GPS distance (22.33 from footpod vs. 22.3 as seen from Strava). It was in a very open area so I guess they should match, but I am anxious to see how it does on my regular route that has a lot more tree cover. The SSU GPS there is not as consistent as I would like (varying about .01 per mile or so). Overall I was pleasantly surprised and will be using it this way from now on.


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## bruceames

Egika said:


> Don't expect any change in GPS accuracy with the latest update. The algorithms behind the ascended and descended altitude have changed (measured from the pressure sensor - not the the GPS)


I wasn't expecting any improvements from GPS, just wondering how the Stryd would fare on a very hilly course. It did very well.


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## gousias

If needed or desired after some period (couple of years or longer), to have replaced the battery of any Spartan series model, does anyone know if this can be done? Or the watch dies with the battery? From your experience with other SUUNTO series, have you ever had replaced a battery? Did you find any issues, the new battery level and duration was as much high as when it was a brand new watch or did it last less?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ingo

Re navigation features (How to navigate with Suunto Spartan GPS watches), when following a route with waypoints, does the Spartan show the distance to the next WP following the route or line of sight? A3P is line of sight only so I was wondering if it's the same or an upgrade over the Ambit's functionality. I couldn't find that info anywhere. Cheers!


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## Egika

Ingo said:


> Re navigation features (How to navigate with Suunto Spartan GPS watches), when following a route with waypoints, does the Spartan show the distance to the next WP following the route or line of sight? A3P is line of sight only so I was wondering if it's the same or an upgrade over the Ambit's functionality. I couldn't find that info anywhere. Cheers!


After the recent update to firmware 1.11.56 it does show the distance and time of arrival based on your current speed. Just swipe up in the navigation screen and you'll see those numbers on top of the screen.


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## Ingo

Egika said:


> After the recent update to firmware 1.11.56 it does show the distance and time of arrival based on your current speed. Just swipe up in the navigation screen and you'll see those numbers on top of the screen.


Cheers and I know that much but what type of distance exactly? There's a difference between the distance to the next WP following the route and the line of sight distance (or "as the crow flies").


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## Egika

Ingo said:


> Cheers and I know that much but what type of distance exactly? There's a difference between the distance to the next WP following the route and the line of sight distance (or "as the crow flies").


Once you reach a waypoint it shows the next one with the distance along the route.


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## slachizh

Testd 2 times new software update of SSU with Stryd on indoor treadmill runnings. Connected Stryd as footpod and turned off autocalibration. But all the same as it was earlier, the speed, distance, pace and so on are coming somewhere from SSU but not from Stryd as it must be. Run 11.5km but on SSU I have just 10km. Did the same with Fenix5X, everything is OK, the same distance as on treadmill as usual. Any comments??? Maybe I did something wrong???


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## Egika

on a treadmill, the SSU cannot provide any speed or distance information. How should it?
It could do cadence - but everything else must be data originating from the foot pod.
Have you tried resetting the watch? Maybe there still is an old calibration factor somewhere in it?


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## slachizh

ok, just made soft reset and will try today to make indoor running again


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## BernardW

Have the same issue with Stryd coupled as footpod, auto calibration off. Instant pace is more stable but slower compared to running with GPS only. Totally reported distance for running is shorter. Data in Stryd Powercenter (uploaded via bluetooth after the run and not synced with Movescount) looks realistic both on pace and total distance (verified with online mapping tool). A couple of months ago I once used the Stryd during a run as footpod. Already did a soft reset of the Stryd, did not give any improvement. For my next run I will do a factory reset of the Spartan (via Suuntolink).


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## Ingo

Egika said:


> Once you reach a waypoint it shows the next one with the distance along the route.


That'd be very cool and an improvement over the A3P's navigation features. Has anybody verified this in the field? It wasn't initially very obvious for the A3P and we did have to test it to be sure (only line of sight distance to next WP).

Does anybody have more details on how estimated time of arrival (ETA) or en route (ETE) is derived and if it shows any meaningful numbers? I'd think it follows some variation of Naismith's rule and adjusts for the current speed of travel - it does know the altitude and route ahead at least.


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## Egika

Ingo said:


> That'd be very cool and an improvement over the A3P's navigation features. Has anybody verified this in the field? It wasn't initially very obvious for the A3P and we did have to test it to be sure (only line of sight distance to next WP).


Yes, of course. Otherwise I would not write it here.
You can test it easily yourself:
Make a new route starting at your current location going in a circle ending very close to the starting point.
Then select this in the watch and start the navigation:
After reching the start point it will show the end point as the next waypoint together with the distance along the route and not th 50m to the end point right next to you.


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## BobMiles

BernardW said:


> Have the same issue with Stryd coupled as footpod, auto calibration off. Instant pace is more stable but slower compared to running with GPS only. Totally reported distance for running is shorter. Data in Stryd Powercenter (uploaded via bluetooth after the run and not synced with Movescount) looks realistic both on pace and total distance (verified with online mapping tool). A couple of months ago I once used the Stryd during a run as footpod. Already did a soft reset of the Stryd, did not give any improvement. For my next run I will do a factory reset of the Spartan (via Suuntolink).


Yes it is slower, but true. GPS usually overestimates the distance for tracks with few corners. It will cut corners on the other hand, so sometimes the difference will even out.


----------



## BernardW

Still doesn't explain why there is a big difference in pace and distance of the same run between Movescount and Powercenter. On a 19 km run the difference is > 600 m, on a 14 km run it is > 500 m. Where data reported by both devices should come from the same sensor (the Stryd footpod), in my opinion this difference cannot be attributed to the normal tolerances one could expect.


----------



## slachizh

also made soft reset of SSU and Stryd, new running on treadmill, 12km, the same as on 5X, SSU shows the same stupid result as earlier, just 10km. Don't know what to do with it, I see that SSU is calculating pace, speed, distance and so on itself, it is exactly not from Stryd. In Power Center I have the same data as on my Fenix 5x and it is correct


----------



## bruceames

BobMiles said:


> Yes it is slower, but true. GPS usually overestimates the distance for tracks with few corners. It will cut corners on the other hand, so sometimes the difference will even out.


I've only done a few runs with uncalibrated Stryd as footpod and have had good results. I have noticed the same thing regarding straights and corners. My first mile there are few corners and it's mostly straight (trail). The distance measured by Stryd was .02 less than the GPS. But when I got into the curvy areas (with more tree cover as well), the distance via Stryd was slightly greater than the GPS. In the end it kinda evened out. I always wondered why my pace slowed so much when I got to the curvy areas because even though it has hilly graduation I felt my pace was faster than than my splits showed. So I'm pretty sold on using Stryd as an uncalibrated footpod now. It almost makes the GPS useless except if you want to see the track afterwards. I don't how it does it on such uneven terrain but it just works, and the pacing is just great.

I might just disable GPS on my next trail run just to really confirm the GPS is not assisting it in any way.


----------



## BobMiles

bruceames said:


> I've only done a few runs with uncalibrated Stryd as footpod and have had good results. I have noticed the same thing regarding straights and corners. My first mile there are few corners and it's mostly straight (trail). The distance measured by Stryd was .02 less than the GPS. But when I got into the curvy areas (with more tree cover as well), the distance via Stryd was slightly greater than the GPS. In the end it kinda evened out. I always wondered why my pace slowed so much when I got to the curvy areas because even though it has hilly graduation I felt my pace was faster than than my splits showed. So I'm pretty sold on using Stryd as an uncalibrated footpod now. It almost makes the GPS useless except if you want to see the track afterwards. I don't how it does it on such uneven terrain but it just works, and the pacing is just great.
> 
> I might just disable GPS on my next trail run just to really confirm the GPS is not assisting it in any way.


I have the exact same experience with the stryd! Really an awesome piece of technology, now that it's fully supported!


----------



## likepend1

Egika said:


> on a treadmill, the SSU cannot provide any speed or distance information. How should it?
> It could do cadence - but everything else must be data originating from the foot pod.
> Have you tried resetting the watch? Maybe there still is an old calibration factor somewhere in it?


With my A3 i get cadence & pace without foot pod on a treadmill.
You have to use the "treadmill" sport mode - it will use the cadence(wrist)/pace(GPS) from the running sport modes when you run outside and applies it indoors.

Even if you have a food pod that is calibrated it will not (in most cases) match the distance/pace/speed of the treadmill because you need a calibrated treadmill too (that's rarely the case) 

DCR: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/09/ambit3-multisport-review.html -- PART "RUNNING" treadmill test!

What about the SSU?


----------



## Egika

likepend1 said:


> With my A3 i get cadence & pace without foot pod on a treadmill.
> You have to use the "treadmill" sport mode - it will use the cadence(wrist)/pace(GPS) from the running sport modes when you run outside and applies it indoors.


Learned something new today. Very interesting!
And yes, the SSU does exactly the same!


----------



## bruceames

Cadence on the treadmill is way off for me. The faster you go, the more it overestimates the distance. There is no consistency unless you run the same pace. I have a treadmill at home I use sometimes and I just edit the move and enter the treadmill distance in Movescount. But now that I have Stryd I won't be doing that anymore. Now I'll be able to see if my treadmill is calibrated, going to do my first run with Stryd on it tonight.


----------



## likepend1

bruceames said:


> Cadence on the treadmill is way off for me. The faster you go, the more it overestimates the distance.


Experienced the same inconsistency (slow/base - good, fast/changes/invtervall - not so much).



bruceames said:


> I have a treadmill at home I use sometimes and I just edit the move and enter the treadmill distance in Movescount. But now that I have Stryd I won't be doing that anymore. Now I'll be able to see if my treadmill is calibrated, going to do my first run with Stryd on it tonight.


Please report back how it went. Read about it multiple times (garmin forum & dcrainmaker) and the results were all over the place. (some treadmills offer the opportunity to adjust/calibrate the speed (software/program or hardware/potentiometer) of the motor)


----------



## BobMiles

bruceames said:


> Cadence on the treadmill is way off for me. The faster you go, the more it overestimates the distance. There is no consistency unless you run the same pace. I have a treadmill at home I use sometimes and I just edit the move and enter the treadmill distance in Movescount. But now that I have Stryd I won't be doing that anymore. Now I'll be able to see if my treadmill is calibrated, going to do my first run with Stryd on it tonight.


Be aware that treadmill and stryd pace/distance might differ! The reason is, that the treadmill speed is not constant during your run. It will speed up during your "air-time" and slow down once you touch the band again. This gave the stryd team quite a riddle to solve, since first they thought the stryd measurement was wrong. But in reality, the treadmill was.


----------



## bruceames

likepend1 said:


> Experienced the same inconsistency (slow/base - good, fast/changes/invtervall - not so much).
> 
> Please report back how it went. Read about it multiple times (garmin forum & dcrainmaker) and the results were all over the place. (some treadmills offer the opportunity to adjust/calibrate the speed (software/program or hardware/potentiometer) of the motor)


Stryd was very consistent with the treadmill, with the treadmill reading about 1.5% higher. That was expected, as it seemed the treadmill pace was a little too easy given the speed it was set at. I always set it at a 3% incline to compensate and it's also easier on the knees to have a slight incline (but not so much that it feels like it).

I assume Stryd is given me the correct distance, so since that distance is already uploaded to MC, I don't have to do anything (other than ignore the treadmill distance). I would like to calibrate the treadmill to Stryd but I don't see an adjustment option via software (it's a Nordictrack 2950).


----------



## bruceames

BobMiles said:


> Be aware that treadmill and stryd pace/distance might differ! The reason is, that the treadmill speed is not constant during your run. It will speed up during your "air-time" and slow down once you touch the band again. This gave the stryd team quite a riddle to solve, since first they thought the stryd measurement was wrong. But in reality, the treadmill was.


Very interesting Bob. I didn't know that, but glad Stryd is right, as it makes everything much simpler.


----------



## likepend1

bruceames said:


> I would like to calibrate the treadmill to Stryd but I don't see an adjustment option via software (it's a Nordictrack 2950).


https://support.nordictrack.com/speed-calibration-2/
"Many recent models, including all models with touchscreen consoles, don't have the capability for the user to calibrate the speed"

The compensation method (increasing the incline a litte bit) is a good idea!


----------



## BobMiles

Does anybody know how exactly the ETA and ETE is calculated? Yesterday I went for a run with route and first I thought they use instantaneous pace for time estimation (which would be madness, but fitting for suunto). When I went up a hill after 2km the time estimate went up 3h while the average pace didn't change much for the overall run.
So I tried to slow down and speed up during my run to see a direct effect on the ETA - it didn't change.
They use some kind of averaging (at least one engineer seems to be remaining at suunto), but which? It's not overall average pace and (hopefully) not instantaneous pace. Sometimes I had the feeling it was lap average pace, as the reading did jump more at the start of the auto laps...
Any idea?


----------



## SuuntoFan

Does anyone know whether you can charge the Spartan Ultra while a move is in progress? For example, during a 30 hour event at best GPS settings the battery will last 18 hours - can you carry a small USB charger and charge the watch while the move is in progress? If so, does anyone know whether the internal memory is sufficient to store 30-50 hours of GPS data at 1 sec recording? Thanks in advance!


----------



## bruceames

SuuntoFan said:


> Does anyone know whether you can charge the Spartan Ultra while a move is in progress? For example, during a 30 hour event at best GPS settings the battery will last 18 hours - can you carry a small USB charger and charge the watch while the move is in progress? If so, does anyone know whether the internal memory is sufficient to store 30-50 hours of GPS data at 1 sec recording? Thanks in advance!


Yes you can charge during a move. I found it not uncomfortable charging while on my wrist during a 20 hour hike last month. The cable feels much nicer under the watch than the Ambit cable does, and unlike the Ambit it's not prone to losing connection. I just loosen the strap a few notches.

The internal memory is plenty sufficient for 30-50 hours.


----------



## Egika

SuuntoFan said:


> Does anyone know whether you can charge the Spartan Ultra while a move is in progress? For example, during a 30 hour event at best GPS settings the battery will last 18 hours - can you carry a small USB charger and charge the watch while the move is in progress? If so, does anyone know whether the internal memory is sufficient to store 30-50 hours of GPS data at 1 sec recording? Thanks in advance!


Yes, you can do so.
Another idea is to use good GPS mode.


----------



## bruceames

Good GPS mode is a great battery saving option as long as you don't need navigation (which only works in best mode).


----------



## Egika

bruceames said:


> Good GPS mode is a great battery saving option as long as you don't need navigation (which only works in best mode).


And the good thing is that the watch switches the mode automatically to best if you navigate - even if it is set to good.


----------



## Egika

Now here's a question:
I swam 1000m today in a 25m pool and this distance was recorded correctly in the watch and in Movescount.
Once the move is synced to Strava it comes up as 950m.
Same yesterday when a 900m swim came out 850m in Strava...
Why??


----------



## SuuntoFan

Egika said:


> Now here's a question:
> I swam 1000m today in a 25m pool and this distance was recorded correctly in the watch and in Movescount.
> Once the move is synced to Strava it comes up as 950m.
> Same yesterday when a 900m swim came out 850m in Strava...
> Why??


Good question. I found an article on strava when I was looking to see why my runs would have different time, distance, _and_ vert on Strava vs Movescount. Essentially it said Strava analyzes the raw data itself while Suunto/Garmin calculates numbers directly in the watch. It's just weird. Sorry I don't have enough posts to link it -if you google 'Why is Strava showing different data than my Garmin?' you'll find it


----------



## PTBC

Egika said:


> Now here's a question:
> I swam 1000m today in a 25m pool and this distance was recorded correctly in the watch and in Movescount.
> Once the move is synced to Strava it comes up as 950m.
> Same yesterday when a 900m swim came out 850m in Strava...
> Why??


There was originally a bug with the watch misreporting swimming distances (under reporting I recall) that was fixed a couple of releases ago, possibly whatever they fixed was in the data processing and the data issue still shows up when moving the raw data to Strava which then under reports as the SSU used to.


----------



## Ingo

BobMiles said:


> Does anybody know how exactly the ETA and ETE is calculated? Yesterday I went for a run with route and first I thought they use instantaneous pace for time estimation (which would be madness, but fitting for suunto). When I went up a hill after 2km the time estimate went up 3h while the average pace didn't change much for the overall run.





BobMiles said:


> So I tried to slow down and speed up during my run to see a direct effect on the ETA - it didn't change.
> They use some kind of averaging (at least one engineer seems to be remaining at suunto), but which? It's not overall average pace and (hopefully) not instantaneous pace. Sometimes I had the feeling it was lap average pace, as the reading did jump more at the start of the auto laps...
> Any idea?




Sorry, no idea really but if I was asked to come up with a framework I'd implement a variation of Naismith's rule and adjust that for the current speed of travel. The unit does know the distance and altitude profile ahead so something like that would make the most sense.


----------



## Rem_

BobMiles said:


> Does anybody know how exactly the ETA and ETE is calculated?
> ...
> Any idea?


i did a quick test the other day. Start walking at ~12min/km, ETA decreased from High to lower value and stabilize after about 1min. I then run at ~ 6min/km and ETA decreased again and stabilized after 1min run Q.E.D. ETA is likely based on 1min rolling speed.
I would have preferred calculated on avg speed from start but once you know it is V1min it is ok.
(Or a clever algorithm e.g. based on future profil vs past)


----------



## corben9

Hej guys n girls. I took some time these holidays and did a bit of testing with the new firmware on my Spartan Ultra. I summed it up in a followup to my review back in May. I mostly focus on the navigation improvements and the outdoor watch face. Check it out and let me know if there is anything I might have forgotten 

For some reason I cant post the link coz I only have 4 posts so just go to my blog and check it out  google *awayfromthepack *it will be the first link! I know its a hassle but let me know if I forgot anything. Cant post the link here of the while article...

I specifically try out a interesting scenario with the navigation on a preplaned rout with multiple waypoints and a POI point


----------



## Jaka83

I've done 4 hikes in the last five days and tested out the navigation features. I always hike with navigation turned on and follow a preloaded route on the watch and was missing a couple of features on the SSU compared to the Ambit series. Now they have added a couple and some extras as well.
In all of the routes I used POIs/WPs along the route and the watch nicely notifies you of the upcoming POI/WP when they are within 100 m and once you are there it also vibrates and notifies you - the display of these notifications is great. I also dove into the "Details" section of the navigation screen which IMO is nicely done - it includes the total routed distance and distance left on route, ETAs and other relevant times - but it could also include the vertical parameters which are still displayed just on the vertical profile screen. Speaking of which, that screen is missing the zoom-in/out feature and POI/WP display. Maybe that is coming in one of the later updates.

All in all, the HR flatlines are gone for now, HR data looks fine, GPS is OK and on par with my old Ambit1 and sometimes better (not expecting anything more of it as it satisfies my needs). All in all, a very nice update (1.11.56). Waiting for snowfall so I can also test out the new ski parameters.


----------



## Deckard79

Hi folks,

Sorry but I have one more question regarding my Spartan Ultra. Namely, Vo2 Max.

I'm really confused over how it is calculated. It always seems somewhat too low (although perhaps it's accurate, and I'm simply not as fit as I thought I was!).

For example, in my latest run my Vo2 is showing as 38ml/kg/min. This is having run 2 miles in 13 mins 37, as a 38 year old male, with BMI 20.6.

When I put the same run parameters into a calculator, they're estimating around 45.

Why the difference?


----------



## Egika

Deckard79 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Sorry but I have one more question regarding my Spartan Ultra. Namely, Vo2 Max.
> 
> I'm really confused over how it is calculated. It always seems somewhat too low (although perhaps it's accurate, and I'm simply not as fit as I thought I was!).
> 
> For example, in my latest run my Vo2 is showing as 38ml/kg/min. This is having run 2 miles in 13 mins 37, as a 38 year old male, with BMI 20.6.
> 
> When I put the same run parameters into a calculator, they're estimating around 45.
> 
> Why the difference?


What data does your calculator use?

The Suuntos use your heart rate variability to calculate these values - I would say it is more precise given that you also entered your personal data correctly in Movescount (min and max HR as well as your activity class)


----------



## Deckard79

They use distance, time, age, gender and BMI. I'd post some links but unfortunately I don't have the post count. They're really just the first ones to show on a google search.

Movescount, I have Activity Class set to 'good' (exercise heavily 30-60 minutes per week). Though not sure if this is correct or not - I also cycle for about 6 hours a week on top of that, but it's on an electric bike and so shows up as moderate exercise rather than heavy (my heartrate is mostly moderate).

My heartrate is set to 55-195. BMI, age, height etc. is correct.

WOuld that setting affect VO2 Max?


----------



## BobMiles

Anybody else seeing two blank screens when configuring sports modes and changing screen layout on movescount?
Maybe they're working on custom graphs...


----------



## martowl

BobMiles said:


> Anybody else seeing two blank screens when configuring sports modes and changing screen layout on movescount?
> Maybe they're working on custom graphs...


No but moves are not syncing right away...there are some issues with servers and maybe this is connected to that.


----------



## Unperson

I've been running less than frequent for a while, which I'm now changing. My fitness level took a bit of a dent so I have to slow myself down a bit to keep the HR in control. Which is hard to do as the SSU doesn't have any alerting, either on pace or HR. Which is weird as the more budget friendly Tomtom watch my girlfriend has can do this. 

Is this something that was present on the Ambit series that we can expect in a future update? Seems like an odd functionality not to have on a training watch.


----------



## PTBC

Unperson said:


> I've been running less than frequent for a while, which I'm now changing. My fitness level took a bit of a dent so I have to slow myself down a bit to keep the HR in control. Which is hard to do as the SSU doesn't have any alerting, either on pace or HR. Which is weird as the more budget friendly Tomtom watch my girlfriend has can do this.
> 
> Is this something that was present on the Ambit series that we can expect in a future update? Seems like an odd functionality not to have on a training watch.


Borrowed a budget GPS watch (Polar M200), it had HR zone alerts (vibration) and it indicated on an outer circle which % zone you were in (definitely not a pretty display, more like something from 1980 but readable), also allowed creating an interval on app which was loaded to watch that had warm-up/cool-down and varied intervals including setting zone targets, in fact pace/speed and distance are also available looking at it, even worse the GPS outperformed the Spartan.

After some discussion with Suunto the Spartan is heading back for service, definitely considering picking up a M200 as a backup device (under $200 CAD) as they said it's likely a month or more before I get the Spartan back

Expected distance
Track laps 3.80km

Recorded Distance
Milestone 3.74km (98%)
Polar 3.94km (96%)
Spartan 4.23km (89%)

Blue is the Spartan (the Polar doesn't have a GPS bump aerial either so that's not an advantage over the Spartan)








Closer up








Compared to the Polar


----------



## bruceames

Unperson said:


> I've been running less than frequent for a while, which I'm now changing. My fitness level took a bit of a dent so I have to slow myself down a bit to keep the HR in control. Which is hard to do as the SSU doesn't have any alerting, either on pace or HR. Which is weird as the more budget friendly Tomtom watch my girlfriend has can do this.


Keep in mind that an out-of-shape or "fresh" heart will beat higher for the same level of perceived exertion. When I was running seasonally just 3 times a week my average HR was around 160. Now year round running and doing a lot more miles the average HR is in the mid 130s.

So the point is, I would put more faith in perceived exertion rather than HR. If the HR is high but you feel good (or OK), then don't worry about it.


----------



## newtonfb

Jaka83 said:


> I've done 4 hikes in the last five days and tested out the navigation features. I always hike with navigation turned on and follow a preloaded route on the watch and was missing a couple of features on the SSU compared to the Ambit series. Now they have added a couple and some extras as well.
> In all of the routes I used POIs/WPs along the route and the watch nicely notifies you of the upcoming POI/WP when they are within 100 m and once you are there it also vibrates and notifies you - the display of these notifications is great. I also dove into the "Details" section of the navigation screen which IMO is nicely done - it includes the total routed distance and distance left on route, ETAs and other relevant times - but it could also include the vertical parameters which are still displayed just on the vertical profile screen. Speaking of which, that screen is missing the zoom-in/out feature and POI/WP display. Maybe that is coming in one of the later updates.
> 
> All in all, the HR flatlines are gone for now, HR data looks fine, GPS is OK and on par with my old Ambit1 and sometimes better (not expecting anything more of it as it satisfies my needs). All in all, a very nice update (1.11.56). Waiting for snowfall so I can also test out the new ski parameters.


Just want to make sure before I buy one for my wife. She hates on the Ambit 3 the watch calculates "birds eye" meaning straight line distance left. I was under the impression in the latest update that Suunto calculates distance left by the actual route you have imported to the watch?


----------



## Jaka83

newtonfb said:


> Just want to make sure before I buy one for my wife. She hates on the Ambit 3 the watch calculates "birds eye" meaning straight line distance left. I was under the impression in the latest update that Suunto calculates distance left by the actual route you have imported to the watch?


If you import a route and have at least one WP or POI setup on that route, it will show you the distance to that point based on the imported route ... so unlike on the Ambit series where it is "as the crow flies". On the other hand, when you choose the "navigate back" option on the Spartan, it will display a compass with the heading to the starting point marked on the outer ring and the direct distance to that point.

On another subject, I don't know if this has been reported before, but starting a planned move from the watch won't let you choose any of the custom sport modes. I've started my trainer sessions and have an indoor bicycle profile setup with two 7-field displays with parameters relevant for my workout and the watch only lets me choose the default basic or power sport modes. What's up with that?!
Also, it would be about time we get at least a distance target parameter in the setup screen.

Yep, slow sync to server happening for me too. The watch syncs and everything looks OK, but movescount does not display the move right away ... for me it takes about 6 hours or so to show up on movescount.


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> On another subject, I don't know if this has been reported before, but starting a planned move from the watch won't let you choose any of the custom sport modes. I've started my trainer sessions and have an indoor bicycle profile setup with two 7-field displays with parameters relevant for my workout and the watch only lets me choose the default basic or power sport modes. What's up with that?!
> Also, it would be about time we get at least a distance target parameter in the setup screen.
> 
> Yep, slow sync to server happening for me too. The watch syncs and everything looks OK, but movescount does not display the move right away ... for me it takes about 6 hours or so to show up on movescount.


Agree with the latter two but I am able to start custom sport modes from planned moves, no issues. Seems odd, they may not appear first in the scroll list for sports in planned moves but you can select them and start a planned move. I did this yesterday for a custom run power interval mode I set up.


----------



## -Laurie-

PTBC said:


> Borrowed a budget GPS watch (Polar M200), it had HR zone alerts (vibration) and it indicated on an outer circle which % zone you were in (definitely not a pretty display, more like something from 1980 but readable), also allowed creating an interval on app which was loaded to watch that had warm-up/cool-down and varied intervals including setting zone targets, in fact pace/speed and distance are also available looking at it, even worse the GPS outperformed the Spartan.
> 
> After some discussion with Suunto the Spartan is heading back for service, definitely considering picking up a M200 as a backup device (under $200 CAD) as they said it's likely a month or more before I get the Spartan back
> 
> Expected distance
> Track laps 3.80km
> 
> Recorded Distance
> Milestone 3.74km (98%)
> Polar 3.94km (96%)
> Spartan 4.23km (89%)


Interesting, GPS accuracy is also my bugbear with the SSU, I have similar results, always off the path where I actually ran, may send mine back for repair as well and get the Trainer while it's away. I've read that the Trainer is has better GPS track results than the Ultra


----------



## Philip Onayeti

-Laurie- said:


> I've read that the Trainer is has better GPS track results than the Ultra


 Not in my experience.


----------



## HUJ

Philip Onayeti said:


> Not in my experience.


Or in mine

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## -Laurie-

HUJ said:


> Or in mine
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That's good to know guys. Going out with my Ambit3 tonight, because the Ultra is just rubbish at gps tracking. I've decided to keep the Ultra for basic training and my Ambit 3 for serious races.

I'm afraid Garmin and Suunto are putting all these bells and whistles on their top-end products an forgetting about function. Selling to the trendy masses and forgetting the athletes - Hopefully the V800 2 or whatever it's going to be called will be exactly what we need.


----------



## bruceames

-Laurie- said:


> That's good to know guys. Going out with my Ambit3 tonight, because the Ultra is just rubbish at gps tracking. I've decided to keep the Ultra for basic training and my Ambit 3 for serious races.
> 
> I'm afraid Garmin and Suunto are putting all these bells and whistles on their top-end products an forgetting about function. Selling to the trendy masses and forgetting the athletes - Hopefully the V800 2 or whatever it's going to be called will be exactly what we need.


I was planning to do the same thing, revert to the A3 for serious races, but the latest FW seems to have fixed the HR dropout without reconnecting issue. I did a 6 1/2 move with no issues and by that time the HR usually goes blank and I'd have to start a new move. I'll have a bigger test this Saturday with a 50 mile race (about 10-11 hours). I feel confident that I won't have any HR issues so hopefully that turns out to be the case.

As for GPS, I've never really had any issues to speak of. Not quite as accurate as the A3 in tree cover, but for the most part, it's good enough. Anyway I use the Stryd (uncalibrated) for measuring pace and distance and it's more accurate than any GPS device. I only really need GPS to be on for navigational purposes, or if I want to record a track (which I always do so I leave it on).


----------



## martowl

-Laurie- said:


> That's good to know guys. Going out with my Ambit3 tonight, because the Ultra is just rubbish at gps tracking. I've decided to keep the Ultra for basic training and my Ambit 3 for serious races.
> 
> I'm afraid Garmin and Suunto are putting all these bells and whistles on their top-end products an forgetting about function. Selling to the trendy masses and forgetting the athletes - Hopefully the V800 2 or whatever it's going to be called will be exactly what we need.


My experience with the SSU GPS has been excellent even using good fix. I do not have challenging GPS conditions for the most part and I may be a little more forgiving than others as I never expect a wrist-worn GPS device to provide highly accurate pace or distance. However, in long races from 50 mile to 100 miles, my GPS has been accurate with regard to the track (never going through mountains or water, etc.) and very good with the distance for the race. I do believe the Spartan is not as good as the Ambit but I am using my devices similar to @Bruce Ames, where a Stryd will provide accuracy and Power. Realistically, I don't need the accuracy except for navigation, I am old and fairly slow, and run almost only trails so I often have only a general idea of how far I went, how much the elevation change was and how fast I was.....


----------



## -Laurie-

bruceames said:


> I was planning to do the same thing, revert to the A3 for serious races, but the latest FW seems to have fixed the HR dropout without reconnecting issue. I did a 6 1/2 move with no issues and by that time the HR usually goes blank and I'd have to start a new move. I'll have a bigger test this Saturday with a 50 mile race (about 10-11 hours). I feel confident that I won't have any HR issues so hopefully that turns out to be the case.
> 
> As for GPS, I've never really had any issues to speak of. Not quite as accurate as the A3 in tree cover, but for the most part, it's good enough. Anyway I use the Stryd (uncalibrated) for measuring pace and distance and it's more accurate than any GPS device. I only really need GPS to be on for navigational purposes, or if I want to record a track (which I always do so I leave it on).


Just got back from run and I was happy with the Ambit 3 gps track. I'm not as forgiving as yourself and Martowl. If I'm paying hundreds of pounds for something which claims to be the ultimate outdoor activity watch, then I expect it to be so, and that means being better than any of my old watches, which it isn't when it comes to gps. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of things I really like on the Spartan Ultra, that's why I'm keeping it for training.

I think there's enough runners in the world for a specialist running watch, without the multi-sport stuff. Most people will never use those other sport modes, give us an a real, accurate gps watch with just the features a runner needs. Function over form and trend!

I'm interested in the Stryd you guys use. It's a pricy little so and so... is it worth it. I'm keen on improving my running form, so maybe it could be worth buying.


----------



## Egika

Adding to the GPS accuracy: I have owned an Ambit 3 Peak, a Traverse and the Spartan Ultra together for a few weeks. Without knowing I would not have been able to tell which watch recorded which track. Sometimes the SSU was slightly better, on other says the A3P. Since it really was so similar, I kept the Spartan and finally sold the other two watches.


----------



## buenosbias

Egika said:


> Adding to the GPS accuracy: I have owned an Ambit 3 Peak, a Traverse and the Spartan Ultra together for a few weeks. Without knowing I would not have been able to tell which watch recorded which track. Sometimes the SSU was slightly better, on other says the A3P. Since it really was so similar, I kept the Spartan and finally sold the other two watches.


I have an A3P and a SSU, and in fact, I often can tell from looking at a track which watch recorded it. The A3P seems to consistently record more points (both watches set to best GPS accuracy), so its tracks look a bit smoother. Not that it matters, but it is noticeable. Otherwise, I fully agree with you.


----------



## bruceames

-Laurie- said:


> Just got back from run and I was happy with the Ambit 3 gps track. I'm not as forgiving as yourself and Martowl. If I'm paying hundreds of pounds for something which claims to be the ultimate outdoor activity watch, then I expect it to be so, and that means being better than any of my old watches, which it isn't when it comes to gps. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of things I really like on the Spartan Ultra, that's why I'm keeping it for training.
> 
> I think there's enough runners in the world for a specialist running watch, without the multi-sport stuff. Most people will never use those other sport modes, give us an a real, accurate gps watch with just the features a runner needs. Function over form and trend!
> 
> I'm interested in the Stryd you guys use. It's a pricy little so and so... is it worth it. I'm keen on improving my running form, so maybe it could be worth buying.


I'm just as much a stickler for accuracy and I waited 6 months to buy the SSU because of the accuracy issues I read about. A FW update came out in late January that improved the GPS accuracy quite a bit, so at least in my experience and training ground (quite a bit of tree cover, but it's not dense and is mostly open one side), I've been satisfied. GPS distance varies perhaps 0.75% at the most, so tough to complain about that.

From reading your posts you are obviously not having results as good and I wouldn't be happy either. The Stryd is way worth it, it much more than a simple footpod and much more accurate too. I highly recommend it and it's a good price for what it does (running power, distance, cadence and pace all at the same time) and its performance.


----------



## PTBC

-Laurie- said:


> Just got back from run and I was happy with the Ambit 3 gps track. I'm not as forgiving as yourself and Martowl. If I'm paying hundreds of pounds for something which claims to be the ultimate outdoor activity watch, then I expect it to be so, and that means being better than any of my old watches, which it isn't when it comes to gps. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of things I really like on the Spartan Ultra, that's why I'm keeping it for training.
> 
> I think there's enough runners in the world for a specialist running watch, without the multi-sport stuff. Most people will never use those other sport modes, give us an a real, accurate gps watch with just the features a runner needs. Function over form and trend!
> 
> I'm interested in the Stryd you guys use. It's a pricy little so and so... is it worth it. I'm keen on improving my running form, so maybe it could be worth buying.


If your'e interested in going down the footpod route the Milestone pods while not as accurate as the Stryd are significantly cheaper and might be worth trying out


----------



## PTBC

buenosbias said:


> I have an A3P and a SSU, and in fact, I often can tell from looking at a track which watch recorded it. The A3P seems to consistently record more points (both watches set to best GPS accuracy), so its tracks look a bit smoother. Not that it matters, but it is noticeable. Otherwise, I fully agree with you.


did some testing against a budget Polar M200 and it records a point per second, my Spartan was lower more like 1:20-1:30 secs per point and the one track was definitely smoother and more accurate than the other. While data volume isn't everything it can't be discounted as a factor


----------



## bruceames

PTBC said:


> did some testing against a budget Polar M200 and it records a point per second, my Spartan was lower more like 1:20-1:30 secs per point and the one track was definitely smoother and more accurate than the other. While data volume isn't everything it can't be discounted as a factor


The data volume only affects the quality of the track. The GPS fix rate remains 1 sec (in best mode). Although the SSU doesn't record every second, it's debatable as to where the track quality is affected, since the data points are still almost every second and the ones that are missed tend to be the one in the straights.


----------



## PTBC

bruceames said:


> The data volume only affects the quality of the track. The GPS fix rate remains 1 sec (in best mode). Although the SSU doesn't record every second, it's debatable as to where the track quality is affected, since the data points are still almost every second and the ones that are missed tend to be the one in the straights.


I did some analysis of GPX files last year, before the GPS firmware update, and it wasn't 'losing' points on just straights, the volume of data points did seem to increase after the firmware update as well. I'll have to see if I have time over Christmas and dig into the current files a bit deeper, I should have my replacement Spartan by then (2nd replacement unit) so that would be a fairer test. While correlation isn't causation the variability in volume of data points (it does vary considerably per move on the Spartan) does seem to line up with the good/bad track inconsistencies I was seeing. That being said they have indicated that my unit was faulty so it's not indicative of the Spartan in general terms.

It was the variability that caught my eye as for the small sample of Polar runs the data points in the GPX file for myGPSfiles has always been 1 per second regardless and the tracks have definitely been better qualitively and smoother than the Spartan's where the saved recording rate varied.

Really it's just frustration with the device and support and trying to look for any form of possible answer that's at the heart of it, if it looks ok I wouldnt even care about the GPX files


----------



## snowleopardw

Suunto lets me down (the letter was in box with the broken watch I sent to Hong Kong).


----------



## Egika

But that's good, isn't it? They confirm that the watch is all good and not broken.


----------



## BobMiles

Egika said:


> But that's good, isn't it? They confirm that the watch is all good and not broken.


He said he already tried other cable USB port combinations. Maybe you have to move to Finland, it seems that a lot of things work better there. Charging, GPS, GLONASS


----------



## Egika

The story is now:
- user has an issue with the watch and has tried a few thing to solve it without success
- sends watch from China to service center in Hong Kong
- gets an answer that watch has been tested to factory standards and found to be working

Now my question is:
Has he received the watch back already? In what state is it?


----------



## snowleopardw

Egika said:


> The story is now:
> - user has an issue with the watch and has tried a few thing to solve it without success
> - sends watch from China to service center in Hong Kong
> - gets an answer that watch has been tested to factory standards and found to be working
> 
> Now my question is:
> Has he received the watch back already? In what state is it?


I am not satisfied with the answer from Suunto, and I do not want to receive the broken watch back, as I sent the broken watch with the letter written by me on November 1, 2017 and waited for an answer like that for a month. Sorry, I do not want to suffer that again. Thank you for your concern.


----------



## Egika

That does not fully answer my question: Did you get your watch back now? In what state is it?

Of course you don't want a broken watch back. But based on Suunto's answer I would be happy that I reveice a tested and fully working watch back.
I suggest you wait for it to arrive and report back.


----------



## snowleopardw

Egika said:


> That does not fully answer my question: Did you get your watch back now? In what state is it?
> 
> Of course you don't want a broken watch back. But based on Suunto's answer I would be happy that I reveice a tested and fully working watch back.
> I suggest you wait for it to arrive and report back.


Thank you for your advice. The answer from Suunto just came up a couple of hours ago. So, if they send the broken watch back to me, I will get it after one month. Before I sent the broken watch to Hong Kong a month ago, I have already tried to change the cable / USB port / charger made by Apple or others, press the top or three buttons for a while to reset, and reset/upgrade/downgrade the firmware. Based on Suunto's answer, I do not think my problem (when charging, keep showing big charging icon with beep & vibration every single second 



 ) has been solved. I appreciate your advice.


----------



## PTBC

On the one-hand they have been good with warranty exchanges when I've reported issues, on the other hand I'm not happy having multiple issues and the watch having to be replaced twice. The first time I found a phone call complaining about the 'no fault' brush off email sent after they reviewed the diagnostics and got the process moving a bit quicker


----------



## Lakerveldt

Ok, now that that October update is well known, we should discuss what's required in future updates. It seems to me that Suunto is reading the comments in this topic. 
For me multiple sensor compatibility is on the top of the list. Especially dual pedal power meter compatibility. It's frustrating that my P1 sett is practically working as a P1s sett. 
Following up on that would be extended power meter readings: L/R balance, Intensity Factor, Stroke analysis in moves count is according to me still missing. Something that Garmin an Polar have implemented nicely when using the right power meter.
Finally, I would like to see the "teach swim style" functionality from my Ambit 2S back. Calibration of swim style gives better logs. 
So Suunto, if your reading this, I like my SSU. It has worked great in multiple triathlons, road bike races, MTB races, runs, etc. I love the looks, battery life, screen, menus and build quality. But there is still some room for improvement with regard to the functionality.


----------



## PTBC

Lakerveldt said:


> Ok, now that that October update is well known, we should discuss what's required in future updates. It seems to me that Suunto is reading the comments in this topic.
> For me multiple sensor compatibility is on the top of the list. Especially dual pedal power meter compatibility. It's frustrating that my P1 sett is practically working as a P1s sett.
> Following up on that would be extended power meter readings: L/R balance, Intensity Factor, Stroke analysis in moves count is according to me still missing. Something that Garmin an Polar have implemented nicely when using the right power meter.
> Finally, I would like to see the "teach swim style" functionality from my Ambit 2S back. Calibration of swim style gives better logs.
> So Suunto, if your reading this, I like my SSU. It has worked great in multiple triathlons, road bike races, MTB races, runs, etc. I love the looks, battery life, screen, menus and build quality. But there is still some room for improvement with regard to the functionality.


- Proper interval function, creation of intervals with warm-up/cool-down phases etc. on website that can be transferred to the watch (polar have implemented this well)
- HR zones in the outer ring as shown over 18months ago (and still shown) in marketing material
- Targets based on more than time, at the least distance, pace and HR zone, also some of the targets should be responsive, they trigger vibration/tone for above/below, targets should be incorporated with interval function
- Fix glonass (and whats the plan for the euro GPS satellites?)


----------



## Sobul

PTBC said:


> - Proper interval function, creation of intervals with warm-up/cool-down phases etc. on website that can be transferred to the watch (polar have implemented this well)
> - HR zones in the outer ring as shown over 18months ago (and still shown) in marketing material
> - Targets based on more than time, at the least distance, pace and HR zone, also some of the targets should be responsive, they trigger vibration/tone for above/below, targets should be incorporated with interval function
> - Fix glonass (and whats the plan for the euro GPS satellites?)


- to see all displays and setup watch in pause mode during exercise. Like Ambit and every old Suunto watch did.
- show temperature in watch mode


----------



## PTBC

Maybe we could have 3 categories for requests

-New stuff
-Stuff the old watches did that the Spartan doesn't
-Stuff that was promised on launch (or in marketing materials) that hasn't been delivered yet


----------



## -Laurie-

PTBC said:


> - Proper interval function, creation of intervals with warm-up/cool-down phases etc. on website that can be transferred to the watch (polar have implemented this well)
> - HR zones in the outer ring as shown over 18months ago (and still shown) in marketing material
> - Targets based on more than time, at the least distance, pace and HR zone, also some of the targets should be responsive, they trigger vibration/tone for above/below, targets should be incorporated with interval function
> - Fix glonass (and whats the plan for the euro GPS satellites?)


Yes, I think all three of your suggestions are 100% spot on. I'd also like to see the return of the Performance Rating. I don't think it's essential but as a guide to fitness/running efficiency it's great. If it's 53 I'm in peak shape and I ran with good pace and good HR zones, also good for monitoring a plan or early signs of sickness or over-training.


----------



## -Laurie-

PTBC said:


> I did some analysis of GPX files last year, before the GPS firmware update, and it wasn't 'losing' points on just straights, the volume of data points did seem to increase after the firmware update as well. I'll have to see if I have time over Christmas and dig into the current files a bit deeper, I should have my replacement Spartan by then (2nd replacement unit) so that would be a fairer test. While correlation isn't causation the variability in volume of data points (it does vary considerably per move on the Spartan) does seem to line up with the good/bad track inconsistencies I was seeing. That being said they have indicated that my unit was faulty so it's not indicative of the Spartan in general terms.
> 
> It was the variability that caught my eye as for the small sample of Polar runs the data points in the GPX file for myGPSfiles has always been 1 per second regardless and the tracks have definitely been better qualitively and smoother than the Spartan's where the saved recording rate varied.
> 
> Really it's just frustration with the device and support and trying to look for any form of possible answer that's at the heart of it, if it looks ok I wouldnt even care about the GPX files


A bit late in replying, so hope your still checking this forum. I'd be really interested if you notice any difference with the gps tracking on your replacement Spartan.


----------



## Daedalus1116

Are people here having better tracking results with GLONASS on or off?


----------



## Egika

Daedalus1116 said:


> Are people here having better tracking results with GLONASS on or off?


Depends.
Depends on your location on the globe and its satellite coverage.
Depends on obstacles you might have blocking the view to the sky, like canyons, tall buildings etc.


----------



## Daedalus1116

Egika said:


> Depends.
> Depends on your location on the globe and its satellite coverage.
> Depends on obstacles you might have blocking the view to the sky, like canyons, tall buildings etc.


My latitude is only 15 degrees north, so I _think_ GLONASS is going to give me worse results?

Also, is the pressure displayed in the Outdoor section the measured pressure or the "sea-level pressure"?


----------



## martowl

Daedalus1116 said:


> Are people here having better tracking results with GLONASS on or off?


Suunto suggests only using GLONASS when there are tall buildings or in canyons, most of the time they suggest GLONASS off. But you can simply test for yourself.


----------



## PTBC

-Laurie- said:


> A bit late in replying, so hope your still checking this forum. I'd be really interested if you notice any difference with the gps tracking on your replacement Spartan.


Unfortunate I've not had too much chance to test, the initial couple of runs were good and much more in sync with the comparisons, I also had a chance to record some walks and a run in the Welsh valleys last week which I will look at this week should be interesting to see how it performs in a different region, also should be able to get back to a proper schedule and have some comparisons in the next couple of weeks. I would add though that with the last watch it did seem to work better and then noticed issues over time, similar issues were noted with the early firmware releases where a fresh install seemed to improve the performance (lots of discussions about memory/resource issues related to that)


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> Suunto suggests only using GLONASS when there are tall buildings or in canyons, most of the time they suggest GLONASS off. But you can simply test for yourself.


Based on having tried it before and varied Suunto comments they do seem to have designed the algorithm to assume you are in a canyon/tall urban building scenario so when you aren't it has an odd offset in the result, unfortunately if its in a mixed environment this can also causes problems as you can't turn it on and off and it doesn't seem to distinguish (technically you could under move options I suppose, but not really practical)


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> Unfortunate I've not had too much chance to test, the initial couple of runs were good and much more in sync with the comparisons, I also had a chance to record some walks and a run in the Welsh valleys last week which I will look at this week should be interesting to see how it performs in a different region, also should be able to get back to a proper schedule and have some comparisons in the next couple of weeks. I would add though that with the last watch it did seem to work better and then noticed issues over time, similar issues were noted with the early firmware releases where a fresh install seemed to improve the performance (lots of discussions about memory/resource issues related to that)


Good to hear, keep us informed. I have not had any memory issues for a long time and none since the last update. I have been recording relatively long SkiMo days 9-10h with no issues.


----------



## Jaka83

-Laurie- said:


> Yes, I think all three of your suggestions are 100% spot on. I'd also like to see the return of the Performance Rating. I don't think it's essential but as a guide to fitness/running efficiency it's great. If it's 53 I'm in peak shape and I ran with good pace and good HR zones, also good for monitoring a plan or early signs of sickness or over-training.


I would like to add that Suunto needs to fix planned moves as they can only be initiated using default sport modes.
For example I have planned two indoor trainer sessions per week and have a custom sport mode setup for the parameters I would like displayed during workout. When I move to the Exercise screen and choose the planned move, it only displays the default sport modes for that category but not my custom mode. I have tried different setups, even tried resetting the watch and re-flashing the FW, but it does not work. I gave up and just use the calendar as is with my planned moves in there, but start my moves using the regular exercise selection screen and my custom sport mode.

Also the intervals customization would be very nice, although you can kind of do it - start a move for warm-up and then after that start your intervals and go back to normal for cool-down. BUT, we need an option for custom intervals, since not all training is done only with (effort+recovery)*repetition and there are more complex structures of intervals which involve three or more stages of effort and recovery.

I also hope apps are coming soon, I am beginning to miss a couple of them.


----------



## cerzet

PTBC said:


> - Fix glonass (and whats the plan for the euro GPS satellites?)


Turned Glonass on again today, big mistake. Major offset on most of the run. Have an SSS on latest fw, part of the back and forth run below. :-|


----------



## PTBC

My guess (based on using it, Suunto comments and forum posts) is that they have assumed it will only be used in certain environments (urban, tall buildings/canyons) and built in an offset for those conditions so when you use it in an open environment the tracks are offset, also means it can't be used in an environment that has mixed conditions without the offset showing up. I'd say also that it can't really be used in an area with poor/low GPS coverage to increase the available satellites as the track will be much smoother, but offset, the first time I tried it with Glonass it showed me a block over from where I was, I've tried it a few times since in areas it was supposed to be used (canyons) and have had mixed results.


----------



## cerzet

Looks more like a sw bug to me, at least on this run. It was actually an offset for about half of the run, going back. The first half was not great, but ok. Then it seems to get an error position that really just should have been filtered out. Instead the track continues in the correct direction from there. This happens 3 times, during maybe 200m. See the first one below, on a heatmap. It never recovers from these, which is strange. I'm running from right to left, along the heatmap road, looking at the map below.


----------



## BobMiles

PTBC said:


> My guess (based on using it, Suunto comments and forum posts) is that they have assumed it will only be used in certain environments (urban, tall buildings/canyons) and built in an offset for those conditions so when you use it in an open environment the tracks are offset, also means it can't be used in an environment that has mixed conditions without the offset showing up. I'd say also that it can't really be used in an area with poor/low GPS coverage to increase the available satellites as the track will be much smoother, but offset, the first time I tried it with Glonass it showed me a block over from where I was, I've tried it a few times since in areas it was supposed to be used (canyons) and have had mixed results.


Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. Just imagine, you were to program a built in offset... To which side? How far? Why?!
I think they have not completely understood how to use sensor fusion algorithms such as Kalman filter and the like to handle the data. What they need is a bunch of good engineers.


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> I would like to add that Suunto needs to fix planned moves as they can only be initiated using default sport modes.
> For example I have planned two indoor trainer sessions per week and have a custom sport mode setup for the parameters I would like displayed during workout. When I move to the Exercise screen and choose the planned move, it only displays the default sport modes for that category but not my custom mode. I have tried different setups, even tried resetting the watch and re-flashing the FW, but it does not work. I gave up and just use the calendar as is with my planned moves in there, but start my moves using the regular exercise selection screen and my custom sport mode.
> 
> Also the intervals customization would be very nice, although you can kind of do it - start a move for warm-up and then after that start your intervals and go back to normal for cool-down. BUT, we need an option for custom intervals, since not all training is done only with (effort+recovery)*repetition and there are more complex structures of intervals which involve three or more stages of effort and recovery.
> 
> I also hope apps are coming soon, I am beginning to miss a couple of them.


I agree with the customization but my planned moves do start from a custom sport mode....There is something wrong with what you are doing I think. These are planned moves you have on the calendar, correct?


----------



## PTBC

BobMiles said:


> Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. Just imagine, you were to program a built in offset... To which side? How far? Why?!
> I think they have not completely understood how to use sensor fusion algorithms such as Kalman filter and the like to handle the data. What they need is a bunch of good engineers.


sorry, oversimplification, agree it's not a set value offset, but seems some allowance in interpreting/filtering the data to allow for echo's/reflections in urban environments which results in what looks like an offset in the results. 
You would think if they have other devices that implement Glonass the fundamental logic of integrating the data sources is understood and it's just adapting the existing logic for the new codebase, the new codebase for Spartan still lacks maturity compared to the older products it seems even at a lower level.


----------



## BobMiles

PTBC said:


> sorry, oversimplification, agree it's not a set value offset, but seems some allowance in interpreting/filtering the data to allow for echo's/reflections in urban environments which results in what looks like an offset in the results.
> You would think if they have other devices that implement Glonass the fundamental logic of integrating the data sources is understood and it's just adapting the existing logic for the new codebase, the new codebase for Spartan still lacks maturity compared to the older products it seems even at a lower level.


Yes. It looks like they started from scratch, forgetting all the experience they should have by now.


----------



## -Laurie-

cerzet said:


> Looks more like a sw bug to me, at least on this run. It was actually an offset for about half of the run, going back. The first half was not great, but ok. Then it seems to get an error position that really just should have been filtered out. Instead the track continues in the correct direction from there. This happens 3 times, during maybe 200m. See the first one below, on a heatmap. It never recovers from these, which is strange. I'm running from right to left, along the heatmap road, looking at the map below.
> 
> View attachment 12746307


Looks familiar, that's the sort of tracking I get, sometimes better than that. Does all this bad tracking add to the total length of the run? If it does, it's just not good enough Suunto. Something has gone wrong seriously wrong since the Ambit 3.


----------



## blizzz

I really like case design for this special limitied edition SSU.
I hope suunto will relase also this type of case for SSU later.

Source: http://www.suunto.com/nb-NO/News/su...ited-edition-celebrates-finlands-anniversary/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## apbjr1

Just received this watch for Christmas - minus HR strap. I'm wanting to get one but the reviews on the Suunto website are really poor. Does anyone have experience with the chest strap and are there other chest straps that will pair with this watch or is it proprietary?


----------



## raducanmihai

In my experience, Suunto's HR sensor/belt is among the most reliable and comfortable, so I would go for it.

It's not proprietay, it's a BT sensor. Any BT sensor should work with the Spartan, except for one feature: sensor memory. The Suunto sensor has a built in memory that allows it to record data and store it for when connection to the watch is available again (eg: recording HR during swimming or starting a move, leaving the watch home, returning ang syncing the results).


----------



## likepend1

apbjr1 said:


> Just received this watch for Christmas - minus HR strap. I'm wanting to get one but the reviews on the Suunto website are really poor. Does anyone have experience with the chest strap and are there other chest straps that will pair with this watch or is it proprietary?


Any BT_smart sensor will work. Have been using the Wahoo Tickr for years now (it's dual BT_smart/ANT+). The nice thing is that the Tickr sensor is compatible with the Polar (soft) strap (if you have/want to change it every other year they are cheaper than the rest).


----------



## Daedalus1116

apbjr1 said:


> Just received this watch for Christmas - minus HR strap. I'm wanting to get one but the reviews on the Suunto website are really poor. Does anyone have experience with the chest strap and are there other chest straps that will pair with this watch or is it proprietary?


I'm using the Polar OH1. It's an optical HR monitor that is strapped on to your upper arm.


----------



## Pieter-ZA

apbjr1 said:


> Just received this watch for Christmas - minus HR strap. I'm wanting to get one but the reviews on the Suunto website are really poor. Does anyone have experience with the chest strap and are there other chest straps that will pair with this watch or is it proprietary?


Used 2 Smart Sensor straps in the family - no issues. (Except for the normal battery (level) checking and ensure a proper connection with skin.) 
Would rate it on par with my Wahoo TicR and Polar H7 strap.

As mentioned, any BTLE strap should pair. (E.g. I used the TickR on my SST)


----------



## renton82

Hello, i'm a Spartan ultra owner since 1 day and i have some questions... 1) is it possible to switch off step counter? 2) I have just tried some short walk (50-100m) to testing gps accuracy and i have noticed that for some move, the gps track is not recorded (i can't export kml or tcx file too), is it normal? Gps signal here is quite bad but with my Fenix 5X even if the track is very bad, is always recorded...


----------



## Jaka83

martowl said:


> I agree with the customization but my planned moves do start from a custom sport mode....There is something wrong with what you are doing I think. These are planned moves you have on the calendar, correct?


Yep ... I plan my exercises on movescount (calendar) ... then sync the watch.
I tried it again exactly the same as before and today it worked (just tried it before posting this reply). The only thing I did differently this time was, that I synced the watch through my phone after adding a test planned move. The other time I synced through the computer using the cable.
Strange


----------



## martowl

Jaka83 said:


> martowl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the customization but my planned moves do start from a custom sport mode....There is something wrong with what you are doing I think. These are planned moves you have on the calendar, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> Yep ... I plan my exercises on movescount (calendar) ... then sync the watch.
> I tried it again exactly the same as before and today it worked (just tried it before posting this reply). The only thing I did differently this time was, that I synced the watch through my phone after adding a test planned move. The other time I synced through the computer using the cable.
> Strange
Click to expand...

Often the Planned Moves will not sync on iOS unless you restart/reboot the watch, then they sync. On my Mac with a cable they would always sync. Don't know for Android/PC.


----------



## alico268

I recently received a new in box SSU as a gift and noticed the serial begins with 1631 putting the manufacture around August of 2016. I've researched this watch a bit and know of it's premature launch but that the periodic firmware updates have brought it up to speed. I did notice people reference G1 and G2 hardware, but have not been able to find anything definitive about if a change actually took place with it's hardware. Without reading through this whole thread, could someone recommend if I should try to exchange this watch for a more recently manufactured one, or keep the one I have and apply the updates? 

Not sure if BH Photo is an authorized dealer or not, but that is the place of purchase and I have not powered the unit on as of yet. Thank you!


----------



## Daedalus1116

Does newer Spartan such as the Sport Baro have the same GPS problem as the Ultra?


----------



## Egika

Daedalus1116 said:


> Does newer Spartan such as the Sport Baro have the same GPS problem as the Ultra?


What GPS problem? All GPS receivers and watches have the same limitations from the system, but the Spartan has no special issues regarding GPS.


----------



## Daedalus1116

Egika said:


> What GPS problem? All GPS receivers and watches have the same limitations from the system, but the Spartan has no special issues regarding GPS.


The Ultra's GPS performance is worse than many other watches, such as the Trainer or even the Polar M200(someone did a comparison in this thread).


----------



## Egika

Daedalus1116 said:


> The Ultra's GPS performance is worse than many other watches, such as the Trainer or even the Polar M200(someone did a comparison in this thread).


Sorry. Cannot say this in general. I have the SSU and my wife the Trainer. Both produce tracks of similar quality.
Even if other watches have superior GPS reception, this is definitely not a problem.
I also compared my SSU to the Ambit3 Peak and sometimes one was more accurate and sometimes the other.
Let's talk about higher or lower precision, but definitely not about a problem.
And always remember: it is GPS, with all its advantages and disadvantages that belong to this system.


----------



## Daedalus1116

Egika said:


> Daedalus1116 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Ultra's GPS performance is worse than many other watches, such as the Trainer or even the Polar M200(someone did a comparison in this thread).
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry. Cannot say this in general. I have the SSU and my wife the Trainer. Both produce tracks of similar quality.
> Even if other watches have superior GPS reception, this is definitely not a problem.
> I also compared my SSU to the Ambit3 Peak and sometimes one was more accurate and sometimes the other.
> Let's talk about higher or lower precision, but definitely not about a problem.
> And always remember: it is GPS, with all its advantages and disadvantages that belong to this system.
Click to expand...

What sports are you using your Ultra with?
I did some cycling today where I put the watch on the handlebar and the track was perfect, whereas my running the day before was terrible.
I'll do some more test tomorrow.


----------



## Jaka83

martowl said:


> Often the Planned Moves will not sync on iOS unless you restart/reboot the watch, then they sync. On my Mac with a cable they would always sync. Don't know for Android/PC.


Planned moves synced OK otherwise I would not get the prompt to start a planned move at the start of an exercise, it's the second part that did not work for me. I started my first planned interval training from the watch today and it worked fine. I'm on Android/Windows & MAC OS, but do not own an iOS device.

As for GPS accuracy, I've had more perfect tracks than worse ones. I have left GLONASS on and it looks like my watch works better with it ON where I hike and bike and ski and so on. I've had a couple of less than ideal tracks with GLONASS OFF in some canyons, so I decided to leave it on and the watch doesn't seem to mind it being ON even in open fields or high mountains.

I did have a power meter flatline a couple of days ago, but that was purely the power meter's fault since I couldn't get it to work on my phone either and it was kind of acting up that day - working fine now.

@alico268
There is no proven correlation between hardware versions and GPS performance, so your guess is as good as our's. Use the watch and see for yourself. If you're having abnormal problems, you can ask for a replacement.


----------



## PTBC

Daedalus1116 said:


> The Ultra's GPS performance is worse than many other watches, such as the Trainer or even the Polar M200(someone did a comparison in this thread).


Jut to add to this that Suunto did replace the watch I was using that was ppor compared to Polar; I haven't had a chance to do any extensive testing against the Polar since, but certainly the first couple of runs the new watch were spot on and matched Polar for distance etc. though that was along the seawall where I expect better performance than on the trails


----------



## Daedalus1116

Is it fine to set the Alti-Baro setting to automatic for all sports? Or should I set it differently for different sports?

Here is the comparison between cycling (watch mounted on the handlebar) and running (watch on right wrist)
This is today's running, notice how messy the lines are, and that they are all on the outside edge of the road (I was running on the inside the whole time)








This is from yesterday's cycling, having the watch pointing at the sky yields perfect tracking, even where I'm rapidly changing direction at high speed.


----------



## Egika

Daedalus1116 said:


> Is it fine to set the Alti-Baro setting to automatic for all sports? Or should I set it differently for different sports?


At least it makes sense to set it to Baro for water sports where you definitely don't change your height. Don't know why this is not the default setting for kite boarding... Otherwise you'll get altitude spikes whenever the watch goes under water...

For everything else outdoors automatic should be fine.


----------



## Jaka83

Daedalus1116 said:


> Is it fine to set the Alti-Baro setting to automatic for all sports? Or should I set it differently for different sports?
> 
> Here is the comparison between cycling (watch mounted on the handlebar) and running (watch on right wrist)
> This is today's running, notice how messy the lines are, and that they are all on the outside edge of the road (I was running on the inside the whole time)
> View attachment 12779183
> 
> 
> This is from yesterday's cycling, having the watch pointing at the sky yields perfect tracking, even where I'm rapidly changing direction at high speed.
> View attachment 12779185


I don't know what you expect from a GPS watch, but these are both perfectly fine IMO.


----------



## tombell

Cycling tracks will always be better due to the higher moving speed. 
Low speed activities, will always be less accurate in terms of GPS accuracy


----------



## gousias

Any rumors regarding a possible new model?


----------



## -Laurie-

Daedalus1116 said:


> Is it fine to set the Alti-Baro setting to automatic for all sports? Or should I set it differently for different sports?
> 
> Here is the comparison between cycling (watch mounted on the handlebar) and running (watch on right wrist)
> This is today's running, notice how messy the lines are, and that they are all on the outside edge of the road (I was running on the inside the whole time)
> View attachment 12779183


I'd be happy with that running track. You should see mine, it has me running in people's gardens and in the middle, and the other side of the road!!!


----------



## bruceames

tombell said:


> Cycling tracks will always be better due to the higher moving speed.
> Low speed activities, will always be less accurate in terms of GPS accuracy


Most of it is due to having the watch mounted so that it is stationary and having the antenna facing the sky.


----------



## martowl

Daedalus1116 said:


> What sports are you using your Ultra with?
> I did some cycling today where I put the watch on the handlebar and the track was perfect, whereas my running the day before was terrible.
> I'll do some more test tomorrow.


Seriously, I have seen some bad tracks from Spartans and I think we all agree the larger antenna in the Ambit is better. What most may not know or forget is the pummeling Suunto got for the nub....post after post complained about it. So, being a customer-responsive company they likely made the decision to remove it. Now a lot are complaining about their accuracy. Seriously, this is a device on your wrist, how good do you really expect it to be????? I know some here have had faulty devices and I have seen some very bad tracks from those. But the newest firmware appears pretty good from what I have seen. And your tracks are great! I do not understand why you think they are bad.


----------



## Daedalus1116

With the running track that I posted, I was running on the other side of the road the whole time. So the watch was constantly placing me 6-8 meters away.


----------



## zvojan

Here are some examples of my last moves. i run trails in dense forest. There are 6 moves with exact same route. maximum deviation is 15-20m , great in my opinion. however i noticed one small issue with spartan. 
i run with watch facing straight to the sky but still it is notable that I wear watch on my left hand. So, do not test Spartan accuracy with track back. Ambit 3 peak did not have that issue. Glonass always on

6 moves (one way movement)









Zoom in at max deviation. Scale is 20m









''left arm'' issue. Arrows shows direction of movement fotr 2 moves with track back


----------



## Daedalus1116

zvojan said:


> ''left arm'' issue. Arrows shows direction of movement fotr 2 moves with track back
> 
> View attachment 12784281


It seems like we are having the same issue. 
You wearing your watch on your left arm results in your track being placed on the left, and me wearing it on my right arm results in my track being placed on the right.


----------



## BobMiles

Daedalus1116 said:


> It seems like we are having the same issue.
> You wearing your watch on your left arm results in your track being placed on the left, and me wearing it on my right arm results in my track being placed on the right.


I'm sorry but the issue you are talking about is the inherent limitation of a wrist wearable device. If you are looking for high accuracy GPS tracks (whatever you may need them for), no sports watch will fit your needs.
The tracks you posted are the top end of the quality range the spartan can offer. Users have shown way worse results (like 100m off).
Maybe your expectations are a bit too high. I'm not too happy with the spartan but all GPS watches deal with similar problems...


----------



## bruceames

Does it really matter if the tracks are offset a few meters depending on which wrist you wear it on? It shouldn't affect the total distance or pace. If you really want a track with no offset due to body interference while running then I would suggest using a GPS pod (Suunto makes one) worn on the top of your head (taped underneath a baseball cap). That would be useful if you want to record an excellent new track for others to see or if you just want to admire your own tracks.


----------



## borgelkranz

I have a question to the people using a Stryd together with the SSU:

During my last run I had my Stryd paired to my SSU as footpod with autocalibration turned off.

The SSU reported 12km, offline data from the Stryd says 13km. Because the watches of my fellow runners suggest ~13km I wonder what distance the SSU actually report.

Additionally, if I export my data from Movescount as a GPX and import it to another platform, the data reports 12,95km.

Now I really wonder, where this discrepancy come from&#8230; I already filed in a support request at Suunto's , still, what is your experience? Does distance come from GPS or from the Stryd?

And for the people worrying about the GPS accuracy of the SSU, check out this comparison between the SSU, an Ambit2R and a Fenix5x. Three watches on three runners doing the same track at the same time. The only difference is that the owner of the Fenix5x did the track twice.


----------



## BobMiles

borgelkranz said:


> I have a question to the people using a Stryd together with the SSU:
> 
> During my last run I had my Stryd paired to my SSU as footpod with autocalibration turned off.
> 
> The SSU reported 12km, offline data from the Stryd says 13km. Because the watches of my fellow runners suggest ~13km I wonder what distance the SSU actually report.
> 
> Additionally, if I export my data from Movescount as a GPX and import it to another platform, the data reports 12,95km.
> 
> Now I really wonder, where this discrepancy come from&#8230; I already filed in a support request at Suunto's , still, what is your experience? Does distance come from GPS or from the Stryd?
> 
> And for the people worrying about the GPS accuracy of the SSU, check out this comparison between the SSU, an Ambit2R and a Fenix5x. Three watches on three runners doing the same track at the same time. The only difference is that the owner of the Fenix5x did the track twice.


Hi!
I observed that the total average pace comes from the GPS and not the stryd. While instantaneous pace is from the stryd pod.
Thus,i would guess that,sadly, the distance is taken from GPS as well.
Be aware that some services do postprocess the data (e.g. Strava), so there might be slight discrepancies.


----------



## borgelkranz

BobMiles said:


> Hi!
> I observed that the total average pace comes from the GPS and not the stryd. While instantaneous pace is from the stryd pod.
> Thus,i would guess that,sadly, the distance is taken from GPS as well.


Thanks for sharing. If that is the case, this behavior feels wrong from a user's perspective:

If the user configures the watch to use a gadget that provides certain metrics without alteration by the watch (i.e., paring a footpod that provides distance, pace, cadence and power and disabling the watch's auto calibration) then thes expectation would be that the watch uses these metrics without alteration.

I think I will give Suunto feedback about this.



BobMiles said:


> Hi!
> Be aware that some services do postprocess the data (e.g. Strava), so there might be slight discrepancies.


I am. But 12km instead of 13km means 1km derivation. Which would be a pace difference of ~30 seconds per kilometer...


----------



## bruceames

With Stryd set as an uncalibrated footpod, pace distance and cadence all come from Stryd.

I copied this from a post from a moderator in a Suunto FB forum that explains it in more detail.



> _When you turn OFF auto-calibration:
> On the watch/Movescount
> - Distance comes from Stryd
> - Pace comes from Stryd
> - Cadence comes from Stryd
> - Power comes from Stryd
> 
> When you have auto-calibration ON:
> - Distance comes from balancing out Stryd and GPS
> - Pace comes from balancing out Stryd and GPS
> - Cadence comes from Stryd
> - Power comes from Stryd
> 
> Gotchas:
> 
> Stryd will record walking and a bit maybe more as it does not understand auto-pauses or manual poses, both in auto-calibration ON and OFF.
> __
> - I GPX, TCX, FIT file exported/Synced from movescount CONTAINS the Stryd distance when auto-calibration is OFF and the balanced one when OFF. _
> _
> - The GPS track, when parsed by other services, will most possibly show the GPS Distance. That is because usually other services will not show the GPS distance in the .gpx, .tcx, .fit file you upload/sync. Example if these services are Strava, MyGPSFiles. _
> _
> - To add more weight to the above gotcha, Strave will most probably show the GPS distance with its own calculation and most probably will be a bit to much offset than movescount. Keep in mind Strava does not account pauses._


I have noticed though that Strava shows the Stryd distance.


----------



## BobMiles

bruceames said:


> With Stryd set as an uncalibrated footpod, pace distance and cadence all come from Stryd.
> 
> I copied this from a post from a moderator in a Suunto FB forum that explains it in more detail.
> 
> I have noticed though that Strava shows the Stryd distance.


On Stryd I have 15.60km - on the watch it says 15.54 as it does on Strava and Movescount.
I'm using the stryd as uncalibrated footpod. So just another lack of suuntos engineering capabilities in my opinion.


----------



## borgelkranz

bruceames said:


> With Stryd set as an uncalibrated footpod, pace distance and cadence all come from Stryd.
> 
> I copied this from a post from a moderator in a Suunto FB forum that explains it in more detail.
> 
> I have noticed though that Strava shows the Stryd distance.


Thanks for the info. I am not on facebook myself...

So this would feel correct for auto calibration set to OFF. But what's wrong in my side then?
I have paired the stryd as a footpod and set auto calibration to OFF. Where are the 1km difference coming from if distance really comes from Stryd?

Some weeks ago I noticed that auto calibration was turned on again. Probably because I did a restart in the SSU (12 sec. upper button press). But before this last run I explicitly set it to OFF again... Puzzling


----------



## PTBC

Certainly I see a different distance on the watch to the pod (milestone) distance after a run, despite Suunto saying it comes from the pod, when questioned they just said it's a pod issue and to take it up with milestone
I've had some odd results that may well be related to the watch not interpreting the pod data correctly, e.g., adding in extra distance from the walk/warmup pre-move phase to the total with no change in time, that is removed by the app, but that's post-processing so can see how it could cause an issue if not handled properly in the code


----------



## renton82

Maybe it's a stupid question and asked many times but I haven't found any specific answer: isn't it possible to switch off the watch like ambit and Garmin?


----------



## PTBC

Can't switch off watch........unless you count letting the battery run down as switching off

There are various do not disturb/low power settings that can make it seem like the watch is switched off so the screen will stay blank unless you push a button, bluetooth/GPS is turned off etc.


----------



## Lakerveldt

Is this an indication for a future spartan SW update? http://www.suunto.com/nb-NO/News/suunto-launches-the-smart-suunto-3-fitness/
It seems that there is a lot of focus on training plans with this watch. 
The watch itself looks like it's based on the Spartan.


----------



## BernardW

The solution with different distances on the watch and a foot pod after a run that worked for me (with Stryd) was by deleting the watch from the Movescount platform and re-connecting it to Movescount again. Got this tip in the FB group, it works for several people. May have to do when the pod was used with auto-calibration before. In my case I used the pod a few times as foot pod with the previous firmware. In that firmware the option to disable auto-calibration was not in hence all foot-pods were used with auto-calibration. After disconnecting and reconnecting from Movescount the run distance reported by both is correct. In my runs I leave the phone at home, so after syncing with Powercenter (or the Milestone app) I obviously have to make a correction as the pod starts registering once I put on my shoes and only stops when I am back home. Usually I walk/jog about 1 km before I start my watch.


----------



## Sobul

BernardW said:


> The solution with different distances on the watch and a foot pod after a run that worked for me (with Stryd) was by deleting the watch from the Movescount platform and re-connecting it to Movescount again. Got this tip in the FB group, it works for several people. May have to do when the pod was used with auto-calibration before. In my case I used the pod a few times as foot pod with the previous firmware. In that firmware the option to disable auto-calibration was not in hence all foot-pods were used with auto-calibration. After disconnecting and reconnecting from Movescount the run distance reported by both is correct. In my runs I leave the phone at home, so after syncing with Powercenter (or the Milestone app) I obviously have to make a correction as the pod starts registering once I put on my shoes and only stops when I am back home. Usually I walk/jog about 1 km before I start my watch.


How do you edit log in Powercentre? I do not change any number. Only see log and to watch some views on number...


----------



## BernardW

You cannot. In the Analysis part on the Analyze webpage you can select the part of the Stryd recording that covers your run. The values in the circles above the graph are adjusted for the selection you made. Hopefully we will see an update in the future where we can can trim off the irrelevant parts of the Stryd recording.


----------



## borgelkranz

BernardW said:


> The solution with different distances on the watch and a foot pod after a run that worked for me (with Stryd) was by deleting the watch from the Movescount platform and re-connecting it to Movescount again. Got this tip in the FB group, it works for several people. May have to do when the pod was used with auto-calibration before. In my case I used the pod a few times as foot pod with the previous firmware. In that firmware the option to disable auto-calibration was not in hence all foot-pods were used with auto-calibration. After disconnecting and reconnecting from Movescount the run distance reported by both is correct. In my runs I leave the phone at home, so after syncing with Powercenter (or the Milestone app) I obviously have to make a correction as the pod starts registering once I put on my shoes and only stops when I am back home. Usually I walk/jog about 1 km before I start my watch.


Thanks, I will give that a try.


----------



## Egika

BobMiles said:


> On Stryd I have 15.60km - on the watch it says 15.54 as it does on Strava and Movescount.
> I'm using the stryd as uncalibrated footpod. So just another lack of suuntos engineering capabilities in my opinion.


I think this is already answered:
The watch just records what happens in the time you start the recording.
The Stryd records all movements of your feet while walking to the start of your workout and after it as well...


----------



## alico268

Lakerveldt said:


> Is this an indication for a future spartan SW update?
> It seems that there is a lot of focus on training plans with this watch.
> The watch itself looks like it's based on the Spartan.


I would not think so at the price point referenced in the article. I think this is Suunto's foray into the activity watch sector like the Fitbits.


----------



## PTBC

Lakerveldt said:


> Is this an indication for a future spartan SW update? Suunto introduces the new Suunto 3 Fitness
> It seems that there is a lot of focus on training plans with this watch.
> The watch itself looks like it's based on the Spartan.


Couple of interesting points in there:

'Additional real-time guidance with heart rate zones during every workout help ensure you train at the right intensity' so hopefully HR zones as shown in the marketing material for over a year are finally arriving

'connects to the all-new Suunto app, which will be introduced in detail later in the spring' so looks like the app/Movescount is getting an overhaul or major update


----------



## Lakerveldt

Yes, those were the items that I also noticed.
It would be logical that these functionalities will also be included in the Spartan series.


----------



## PTBC

Hope this doesn't mean we aren't getting any firmware updates until the new model is released


----------



## borgelkranz

PTBC said:


> Hope this doesn't mean we aren't getting any firmware updates until the new model is released


If they hold their promises, an update should be due on January 17th, should'nt it? But the roadmap once again dissapeared from their page... So, who knows...


----------



## tombell

Is the SSU roadmap available online?


----------



## borgelkranz

tombell said:


> Is the SSU roadmap available online?


No. But they stated before releasing the last update (17th November) that they plan to release an update every quarter of the year:








As far as I am concerned, I rather have a feature that works at a later time than unfinished functionality at a defined dealine.


----------



## PTBC

Depends on your definition of both 'works' and 'unfinished' of course )


----------



## borgelkranz

PTBC said:


> Depends on your definition of both 'works' and 'unfinished' of course )


True.  But by and large things greatly improved, compared to what this watch was in August 2016. And I experienced that Suunto is listening... by the way, a three field interval screen with power instead of pace would be great! 

Maybe we also need another term 'can be improved'. For an example, I frequently use the SSU's interval feature. I pretty much like the possibility to set them up on the watch. Still, the feature could be improved. For example by providing an interval library, pretty much like the routes work now. So for example 12x400m with n minutes rest, 4x1000m, 10x200m, etc... This would mitigate that structured workouts are not possible and would allow to configure basic building blocks that one frequently uses...

So, is the interval feature working? Yes. Can it be improved? Yes. Is it unfinished? Depends.


----------



## BobMiles

borgelkranz said:


> If they hold their promises, an update should be due on January 17th, should'nt it? But the roadmap once again dissapeared from their page... So, who knows...


I think it must be February 17th if I'm not mistaken? As their "autumn" update arrived in November...
I'll try to keep my expectations as low as possible...


----------



## borgelkranz

BobMiles said:


> I think it must be February 17th if I'm not mistaken? As their "autumn" update arrived in November...
> I'll try to keep my expectations as low as possible...


Typo on my behalf. The update went live on October 17th. So technically, the next upadte would be due next week. But until it arrives, I follow your advise and keep my expectations as low as possible...


----------



## PTBC

borgelkranz said:


> True.  But by and large things greatly improved, compared to what this watch was in August 2016. And I experienced that Suunto is listening... by the way, a three field interval screen with power instead of pace would be great!
> 
> Maybe we also need another term 'can be improved'. For an example, I frequently use the SSU's interval feature. I pretty much like the possibility to set them up on the watch. Still, the feature could be improved. For example by providing an interval library, pretty much like the routes work now. So for example 12x400m with n minutes rest, 4x1000m, 10x200m, etc... This would mitigate that structured workouts are not possible and would allow to configure basic building blocks that one frequently uses...
> 
> So, is the interval feature working? Yes. Can it be improved? Yes. Is it unfinished? Depends.


Hopefully the adaptive training will encompass more structured intervals, creating them on the fly on the watch isn't likely to be practical with UI/screen limitations and I have no issue with adding them online to a planned session and syncing them, but I do like your suggestion of building blocks/library


----------



## AnttiS

BobMiles said:


> I think it must be February 17th if I'm not mistaken? As their "autumn" update arrived in November...
> I'll try to keep my expectations as low as possible...


Didn't they release last update on *October* 17th? Anyway, I don't know, but I don't believe Suunto follows an update plan with exact dates every three months.


----------



## BobMiles

AnttiS said:


> Didn't they release last update on *October* 17th? Anyway, I don't know, but I don't believe Suunto follows an update plan with exact dates every three months.


Right, October! It felt like November though 
I'm pretty sure they'll miss it. Just from experience.


----------



## kralik_j

Hello guys, do you have some idea about features new update?

Do you have any wish?


----------



## BobMiles

kralik_j said:


> Hello guys, do you have some idea about features new update?
> 
> Do you have any wish?


I would not expect an update tomorrow...

My wish: Apply some thinking and engineering to the existing functions so they'll work as expected, rather than doing it all quick and dirty.
Dirty. Nothing was quick with the spartan.


----------



## slashas

BobMiles said:


> I would not expect an update tomorrow...
> 
> My wish: Apply some thinking and engineering to the existing functions so they'll work as expected, rather than doing it all quick and dirty.
> Dirty. Nothing was quick with the spartan.


Finns arent the fastest people


----------



## kralik_j

For me is still missing:
- currently peak grade for mount bike, ski touring, visualization on all track the grade scale example 

- acustic min max HR, peak ascendent meters, distance achieving. i don't think interval

- combination graph screen and data field (navigation or profile with speed, elevation distance datas.. On one screen). 
My big wish is to have field colour separately (curve blue speed red example etc) 

- what is next elevation to the next POI

- custom screen set up via mobile app (with or without net connection)

-movecount more maps templates for better details vizualization (better POI planning). Still have problem load all planned POI from another map platforms to the movecount maps for watch import, just not possible
- in custome mode screen can't to add curve (hr, profile..), in default sport modes is possible to see these

Is missing some garmin running evaluating features

Outdoor swimming very bad distance measuring, distance data not usable (crawl style)


----------



## Sobul

kralik_j said:


> For me is still missing:
> - currently peak grade for mount bike, ski touring, visualization on all track the grade scale example
> 
> - acustic min max HR, peak ascendent meters, distance achieving. i don't think interval
> 
> - combination graph screen and data field (navigation or profile with speed, elevation distance datas.. On one screen).
> My big wish is to have field colour separately (curve blue speed red example etc)
> 
> - what is next elevation to the next POI
> 
> - custom screen set up via mobile app (with or without net connection)
> 
> -movecount more maps templates for better details vizualization (better POI planning). Still have problem load all planned POI from another map platforms to the movecount maps for watch import, just not possible
> - in custome mode screen can't to add curve (hr, profile..), in default sport modes is possible to see these
> 
> Is missing some garmin running evaluating features
> 
> Outdoor swimming very bad distance measuring, distance data not usable (crawl style)


Adding one important request:
- to see other information than duration/time in exercise mode in pause mode. I do not really understand, why my watch have to run when I want change setting during exercise or to see more training data on display. Ambit and other watch does it normaly. This kind of use is not logic.


----------



## tombell

New software update available today
http://www.suunto.com/en-GB/Worlds/Training-World/Software-updates/updates-for-suunto-spartan/
v1.12.36
Connect to SuuntoLink


----------



## BobMiles

tombell said:


> New software update available today
> http://www.suunto.com/en-GB/Worlds/Training-World/Software-updates/updates-for-suunto-spartan/
> v1.12.36
> Connect to SuuntoLink
> View attachment 12816437


So it's all about Heart Rate Zones this time! Finally!
Let's see what else changed.


----------



## kralik_j

Yes, just made update. I can see the hr zone but nothing about acoustic alert ?
Today go to try

Unfortunately no another features. 3 months programing time and only this one(hr visualization)?



BobMiles said:


> tombell said:
> 
> 
> 
> New software update available today
> http://www.suunto.com/en-GB/Worlds/Training-World/Software-updates/updates-for-suunto-spartan/
> v1.12.36
> Connect to SuuntoLink[iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12816437&stc=1&d=1516266971"]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/iurl]
> 
> 
> 
> So it's all about Heart Rate Zones this time! Finally!
> Let's see what else changed.
Click to expand...


----------



## BobMiles

kralik_j said:


> Yes, just made update. I can see the hr zone but nothing about acoustic alert ?
> Today go to try
> 
> Unfortunately no another features. 3 months programing time and only this one(hr visualization)?


Sounds just like suunto. The specific HR display is only available for standard sport modes, as the blog states.


----------



## Egika

BobMiles said:


> Sounds just like suunto. The specific HR display is only available for standard sport modes, as the blog states.


Not quite.
There is only one display, that is available exclusively in the factory modes. It is the one with the cumulative time in each zone.

Everything else (like the much wanted bezel display of HR zone) is visible in all sport modes.


----------



## BobMiles

Egika said:


> Not quite.
> There is only one display, that is available exclusively in the factory modes. It is the one with the cumulative time in each zone.
> 
> Everything else (like the much wanted bezel display of HR zone) is visible in all sport modes.


That's what I meant with specific HR display.
What is the deal with the graph and HR displays so they can't have them in custom modes.


----------



## kralik_j

The first feeling from this feature:
- as was said, vizualization during workout not for custom sport mode
- nice is to see how heart rate to next hr level up and down
- hr zone can't see during break and i didn't see zones also on end workout. It can see with colour lines and zone time spending in watch record list


Pity that the datas can't see during break, it is still possible only during active workout ?

POI right name record on movecount doesn't appear during workout point approach

Overall
A lot time consuption (3months) with small although nice feature


----------



## Jaka83

kralik_j said:


> The first feeling from this feature:
> - as was said, vizualization during workout not for custom sport mode
> - nice is to see how heart rate to next hr level up and down
> - hr zone can't see during break and i didn't see zones also on end workout. It can see with colour lines and zone time spending in watch record list
> 
> Pity that the datas can't see during break, it is still possible only during active workout ?
> 
> POI right name record on movecount doesn't appear during workout point approach
> 
> Overall
> A lot time consuption (3months) with small although nice feature


Comment on the first point ... do you mean the HR graph or the HR zones? Because I can see HR zones in my custom sport modes.
Comment on the third point ... the argument behind this is that it is more likely for you to notice that the watch is paused than if it was displaying the parameters. I agree with you on this and am annoyed by it as I was used to the watch displaying my parameters during my lunch break on hikes and skiing. I think this could easily be solved by colouring the whole screen red (or another colour) with white text of the parameters, so you can see that the watch is paused and still see the parameters. Maybe some smart engineer will suggest a similar implementation.
Regarding POI ... I've noticed that too, it just displays the type name of POI, not the custom name you give it.

Agreed, a lot of time for minor changes on the surface, but there were a couple of bugs underneath that I hope they squashed - mainly BT connection and pairing issues and mobile sync issues.


----------



## PTBC

kralik_j said:


> The first feeling from this feature:
> - as was said, vizualization during workout not for custom sport mode
> - nice is to see how heart rate to next hr level up and down
> - hr zone can't see during break and i didn't see zones also on end workout. It can see with colour lines and zone time spending in watch record list
> 
> Pity that the datas can't see during break, it is still possible only during active workout ?
> 
> POI right name record on movecount doesn't appear during workout point approach
> 
> Overall
> A lot time consuption (3months) with small although nice feature


So can display HR zone, but not set targets or have notification (vibration/audio) of moving between zones or use it as HR zone as a parameter for setting intervals

Not a lot for 3 months, there were firmware upgrades to components (BT was mentioned) likely from 3rd party vendors and testing/integration can take up a lot of time and aren't always visible, hopefully performance improvements that will feed into other aspects of the device usage (faster sync has been noted)


----------



## Jaka83

I've also just noticed that they added two new parameters that can be set in custom sport modes "NavigationPOIdistance" and "NavigationRouteDistance" and they renamed the POI ETA and POI ETE. There may be other new parameters for interval training, but I don't utilise those on custom screens as I can't seem to find a way to customise my interval screens with my parameters, other than the three preset 7 field and two preset 3 field interval screens.

I've noticed that the watch feels a bit snappier, but that has always been the effect of a fresh FW update. I very much like the addition of three levels of different HR zones (default, cycling and running) in the watch settings (can be set just on the watch, not in movescount) ... this will come in handy for hiking and cycling - for now I have set the defaults to be 10% lower (50%-60%-70%-80%-100% of max HR) and my cycling HRs 5% higher (65%-75%-85%-95%-100%) and will see how my PTE stacks up to previous moves.

I like the summary of HR zones in the post activity screen.
The HR zones do not show if you set a target time for the activity - this could be solved by splitting the width of the indicators ... the outer half of the ring could display duration or distance or whatever they will implement in the future and the inner half could display HR zones. I think the display has enough resolution to pull this off.

Still can't reset/remove dual time, so I have one extra parameter to cycle through on the watch face. o|

Also, has the "Auto do not disturb" function been there from the last FW update or is it new in this one? I've noticed it just now.

I've just done one interval training on the indoor trainer yesterday after the update and will go hiking tomorrow to test out the watch outdoors.


----------



## PTBC

Jaka83 said:


> Also, has the "Auto do not disturb" function been there from the last FW update or is it new in this one? I've noticed it just now.


It was part of sleep tracking previously


----------



## SUPmission

Training > Intensity Zones > Advanced Zones but only limited to Running and Cycling??!! 
I think Suunto really is ignoring us paddlesport athletes on water.  One last strike and I'm off to Garmin.

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## slashas

SUPmission said:


> Training > Intensity Zones > Advanced Zones but only limited to Running and Cycling??!!
> I think Suunto really is ignoring us paddlesport athletes on water.  One last strike and I'm off to Garmin.
> 
> Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


Go to Garmin, mine was freezing during sport or rebooting when stopped after SUP or Kayaking  check their forum


----------



## SUPmission

slashas said:


> Go to Garmin, mine was freezing during sport or rebooting when stopped after SUP or Kayaking  check their forum


Which forum? Attach URL here please. Thought that problem was gone after the last few updates anyway. I paddle in freezing temperatures -2°C with SSU fastened on sup deck - no issues. I just don't like that paddle sport always get the back seat with Suunto developments..

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## slashas

SUPmission said:


> Which forum? Attach URL here please. Thought that problem was gone after the last few updates anyway. I paddle in freezing temperatures -2°C with SSU fastened on sup deck - no issues. I just don't like that paddle sport always get the back seat with Suunto developments..
> 
> Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


https://forums.garmin.com/forum/on-the-trail/wrist-worn/fenix-5-5s/154486-


----------



## Egika

SUPmission said:


> Training > Intensity Zones > Advanced Zones but only limited to Running and Cycling??!!
> I think Suunto really is ignoring us paddlesport athletes on water.  One last strike and I'm off to Garmin.
> Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


Why can't you use the default zones for your paddling?

btw: there are also no special HR zone settings for tennis, football, skiing, climbing, kite boarding and many other sports I like to do... ;-)


----------



## SUPmission

Egika said:


> Why can't you use the default zones for your paddling?
> 
> btw: there are also no special HR zone settings for tennis, football, skiing, climbing, kite boarding and many other sports I like to do... ;-)


Because different athletes work in different HR zones to generate same effective power. So my question should have been "Why bother making special HR zones for just running and cycling and not the rest then?"  
I understand the two are established platforms where POWER is involved. 
I've been researching on the same subject for those who does ultra distance paddling using POWER. HR as we know is key to maintaining an effective power training. I use Vaaká Cadence and Motionize for paddle analytics. I also use Stryd for running.
Quick indicator on HR zone for all other sports for collection of data is always welcomed. That is what we're after here with the watches right? 

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## Egika

I understand having a special focus for each one's special activity would be nice.

But you have not really answered my question: why don't you just use the default zone settings? Why would it not work if you use it for paddling?


----------



## SUPmission

My HR in Zone 4 and 5 is higher while paddling than running. It could work if its reading that by default. Will see if that works next time I'm out on the water especially for interval trainings.


Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## BobMiles

SUPmission said:


> My HR in Zone 4 and 5 is higher while paddling than running. It could work if its reading that by default. Will see if that works next time I'm out on the water especially for interval trainings.
> 
> Wind it up ️now let it roll


But why not follow Egikas advice and set standard HR zones for paddling and then a special one for running? Easy.


----------



## SUPmission

Egika said:


> I understand having a special focus for each one's special activity would be nice.. would it not work if you use it for paddling?





BobMiles said:


> But why not follow Egikas advice and set standard HR zones for paddling and then a special one for running? Easy.


Yep. It works Egika. Just tried a static paddle by the pool. 
Don't need other specific sports anyway. Excuse my morning whining..

Time to catch some sunshine. Have a good weekend guys. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Jaka83

The only problem with these custom HR zones is that they don't get synced to Movescount and once your exercise is done, you still get the default PTE based on the default HR zones. As it is right now, it only serves as a guide for training and not for analytics and tracking of HR zone training. I guess the next step would be linking MC and the watch HR zones and later also add power zones based on the individual's FTP (functional threshold power) - something that's become quite popular lately with all the power meters floating around.

OK, enough whining and off to sharpen my skis, I will finally get to the slopes this season and test out the ski parameters.


----------



## slashas

Seems I get vibration feedback while reaching red hr zone as I don’t get any other notifications but watch vibrates so I assume it is because of HR zone reached, could someone confirm?


----------



## Pedreiro

Hello 

I have problem. When I was syncing my watch with my iphone the transmission was interrupted and now I have my moves on watch but not in movescount - all apps shows that moves are sync what is not true. How can I reupload this moves? Is there any solution for this problem?


----------



## BobMiles

Pedreiro said:


> Hello
> 
> I have problem. When I was syncing my watch with my iphone the transmission was interrupted and now I have my moves on watch but not in movescount - all apps shows that moves are sync what is not true. How can I reupload this moves? Is there any solution for this problem?


Use Suuntolink on your computer and try to sync via cable!


----------



## Pedreiro

BobMiles said:


> Use Suuntolink on your computer and try to sync via cable!


The same situation - suuntolink says that everything is synced but it is not


----------



## BobMiles

Pedreiro said:


> The same situation - suuntolink says that everything is synced but it is not


Then you could try and add a new move on your watch, just like indoor running for some seconds! And the see, if both moves are synced.
If not, contact suunto support, they can recover your move!


----------



## Pedreiro

BobMiles said:


> Then you could try and add a new move on your watch, just like indoor running for some seconds! And the see, if both moves are synced.
> If not, contact suunto support, they can recover your move!


Now it not synced old and "virtual" move that I have done right now - now I cant sync anything.....


----------



## kralik_j

Pedreiro said:


> Hello
> 
> I have problem. When I was syncing my watch with my iphone the transmission was interrupted and now I have my moves on watch but not in movescount - all apps shows that moves are sync what is not true. How can I reupload this moves? Is there any solution for this problem?


Have same issue. Just I'm solving today 5h workout, tried switch on of BT, synchr via cable no sucess, reset watch not solved. Unpair and again pair watch, non sucess. The workout can see in watch but not in movecount.


----------



## Pedreiro

kralik_j said:


> Have same issue. Just I'm solving today 5h workout, tried switch on of BT, synchr via cable no sucess, reset watch not solved. Unpair and again pair watch, non sucess. The workout can see in watch but not in movecount.


exactly the same situation....nothing work for me too


----------



## bruceames

Move uploaded, but without the HR and power metrics. It was a race too, so I hope it shows up later. HR and power data is on the watch though.


----------



## Pedreiro

so it is suunto problem not my iphone or something like that.....I hope that they can fix it because it was two of my very important trainings ;/


----------



## bruceames

GPS data not uploaded either. The only reason it uploaded my distance is because I used Stryd to record the distance.


----------



## Pedreiro

ehhh it is sad but i must write this - always some problem with this watch :-d HR issues, now not syncing what else :-s


----------



## scandium48

My 10k trail run would not load this a.m. either.


----------



## Lakerveldt

We've seen this before. This is probably related to some kind of server delay. Maybe they're doing some kind of maintenance. In the past, moves would pop up some hours afterwards, when syncing was problematic.


----------



## PTBC

scandium48 said:


> My 10k trail run would not load this a.m. either.


Same here, move from this morning didn't sync, annoying, looking at the thread seems like a general issue, they should send out notices or put something on Movescount site at least


----------



## sb029111

PTBC said:


> Same here, move from this morning didn't sync, annoying, looking at the thread seems like a general issue, they should send out notices or put something on Movescount site at least


This isn't a Watch problem, I had the same thing with my Ambit 3 Peak, move logged (apparently) in the phone app, but the "circle" around the icon is missing. Looking over on the Facebook page Run4IQ Suunto, it's noted that it's Movescount upchucked again, and (hopefully) the moves will eventually sync in entirety. I hope so, but I used the watch data to put in a manual move, that I will delete if the "real" move actually does sync.


----------



## bruceames

I'm worried that my partially stored move is "set" in MC and the rest of the data (GPS, power, HR) won't get uploaded later when they fix the issue.


----------



## bcalvanese

I just got a Spartan Sport Wrist HR Baro today at REI. I returned a Spartan Trainer Wrist HR that I got yesterday and exchanged it for the Sport because I could not read the screen. I synced a move yesterday from the Trainer and it worked. I did a move today with the Sport and it would not sync the move to my phone or the website.

Settings seem to sync, just not moves.

I called support and they said there was a server issue that they were working on.

I am not sure if the Sport is just not compatible with my phone or if the server issue is causing the moves not to sync. I am using a Galaxy Note 8.

I am going to assume it is the server issue until I find out different.

I did do a blank move (just hit record and let it run for a few minutes) with my A3P and synced it via USB, and it too did not show up on the website.

Are others having issues syncing with the mobile app and the website too?


----------



## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> I just got a Spartan Sport Wrist HR Baro today at REI. I returned a Spartan Trainer Wrist HR that I got yesterday and exchanged it for the Sport because I could not read the screen. I synced a move yesterday from the Trainer and it worked. I did a move today with the Sport and it would not sync the move to my phone or the website.
> 
> Settings seem to sync, just not moves.
> 
> I called support and they said there was a server issue that they were working on.
> 
> I am not sure if the Sport is just not compatible with my phone or if the server issue is causing the moves not to sync. I am using a Galaxy Note 8.
> 
> I am going to assume it is the server issue until I find out different.
> 
> I did do a blank move (just hit record and let it run for a few minutes) with my A3P and synced it via USB, and it too did not show up on the website.
> 
> Are others having issues syncing with the mobile app and the website too?


Yes, my move today with an Ambit 3 Peak synced to my iPhone, but never made it to Movescount. Didn't notice until I tried to move the activity to other programs via Rungap, never showed up.. caused a genuine "WTF?" until I saw the announcement on Facebook.


----------



## PTBC

sb029111 said:


> Yes, my move today with an Ambit 3 Peak synced to my iPhone, but never made it to Movescount. Didn't notice until I tried to move the activity to other programs via Rungap, never showed up.. caused a genuine "WTF?" until I saw the announcement on Facebook.


At least there's a notice up on Movescount now, not everyone uses Facebook and Twitter, they should be secondary communication not primary


----------



## martowl

slashas said:


> Seems I get vibration feedback while reaching red hr zone as I don't get any other notifications but watch vibrates so I assume it is because of HR zone reached, could someone confirm?


I have had alerts occurring on my watch that I don't know what for. I usually do not run with my iPhone so your explanation seems like a good one! I will check this out and get back to you.


----------



## slashas

martowl said:


> I have had alerts occurring on my watch that I don't know what for. I usually do not run with my iPhone so your explanation seems like a good one! I will check this out and get back to you.


Me as well doing workouts without phone, so these vibrations kinda weird... haven't found anything related to it in hr zones user guide...


----------



## martowl

slashas said:


> Me as well doing workouts without phone, so these vibrations kinda weird... haven't found anything related to it in hr zones user guide...


Would not be the first time


----------



## kralik_j

Movecount out off service since yesterday, i am leaving city for all day skitouring but can not upload gpx track due to maintenance of MC ?

Still Not another possibility (android movecount app) off line upload the trip... ?


----------



## Egika

kralik_j said:


> Movecount out off service since yesterday, i am leaving city for all day skitouring but can not upload gpx track due to maintenance of MC ?
> 
> Still Not another possibility (android movecount app) off line upload the trip... ?


One thing that still works is the new iOS app (beta test), where you can draw routes and upload them to the watch.
But you have to re-draw your route and cannot upload already existing gpx files...


----------



## sb029111

Egika said:


> One thing that still works is the new iOS app (beta test), where you can draw routes and upload them to the watch.
> But you have to re-draw your route and cannot upload already existing gpx files...


May be a bit off topic, but is there anything in the beta iOS app that would make me want to upgrade my Ambit 3 Peak for something in the Spartan line? The info suggests that there are features for the Spartan line that aren't available in older models.


----------



## Egika

You can check out the app already and also read the forum.suunto.com For me the biggest plus is the mentioned route planning on my device.


----------



## PTBC

Site is back, but my last move is still missing


----------



## likepend1

PTBC said:


> Site is back, but my last move is still missing


Same here. 3 moves missing, must have been lost in the ether!


----------



## Egika

Normally all the moves finally show up. Just give it some time.


----------



## kralik_j

Today 5hours workout synchronization appears that is sucess, but isnt on MC. Till today i missed 2nd workout!

Very bad


----------



## slashas

kralik_j said:


> Today 5hours workout synchronization appears that is sucess, but isnt on MC. Till today i missed 2nd workout!
> 
> Very bad


Wait a bit or sync move with suuntolink after my moves appeared almost instantly.


----------



## PTBC

Wonder if they will release any information, for a business critical system (and Movescount surely is considered to be critical as the devices are limited without it) it's a significant outage


----------



## martowl

sb029111 said:


> May be a bit off topic, but is there anything in the beta iOS app that would make me want to upgrade my Ambit 3 Peak for something in the Spartan line? The info suggests that there are features for the Spartan line that aren't available in older models.


Biggest for me are complete offline sync and route drawing/import on the mobile app. There is likely more coming though.


----------



## slashas

martowl said:


> Biggest for me are complete offline sync and route drawing/import on the mobile app. There is likely more coming though.


What I don't like is design, Feed is useless with goal circle and that awkward recovery line...


----------



## cizi

Hello guys, I need your advice if it's possible. I am owner of Garmin Fenix 5 and I have opportunity to buy SSU with HR strap for a great price and save some money. I am thinking about switching from Fenix 5 to SSU but not sure if is it a great step because on the forums is still many complains about battery life , bugs etc. Basically I swim (pool), hike, run, MTB and weight training. Can you please give me a hint? Thanks a lot....


----------



## slashas

cizi said:


> Hello guys, I need your advice if it's possible. I am owner of Garmin Fenix 5 and I have opportunity to buy SSU with HR strap for a great price and save some money. I am thinking about switching from Fenix 5 to SSU but not sure if is it a great step because on the forums is still many complains about battery life , bugs etc. Basically I swim (pool), hike, run, MTB and weight training. Can you please give me a hint? Thanks a lot....


Ultra is having great battery life, I came to suunto Spartan sport Baro from GF5 and can clearly state that Garmin is having a lot more bugs, but suunto a lot less features, well for truth I haven't used 80% of them in Garmin, so really don't care about them. For me altimeter works a lot better on suunto, WHRM as well almost spot on, GPS way better, what I hated the most on F5 is Garmin hr belt ANT connection dropouts, so decided to give up on Garmin and now happy suunto user.
You need to answer the question, what you really care fancy features but incorrect data or less features, but way better data quality.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

cizi said:


> is still many complains about battery life , bugs etc.


The battery file complaints are mainly aimed at sport models with in built HR monitor eg SortWristHRBaro not the Ultra which is very good. Very few bugs in any model (Suunto's strength). There is quite a few who have connection/data transfer problems with the Suunto HR pod though.


----------



## martowl

Philip Onayeti said:


> The battery file complaints are mainly aimed at sport models with in built HR monitor eg SortWristHRBaro not the Ultra which is very good. Very few bugs in any model (Suunto's strength). There is quite a few who have connection/data transfer problems with the Suunto HR pod though.


HR pod issues seem bizarre to me as mine has had virtually no issues. I wonder if this pod is more sensitive to static during the winter months. It seems that many more issues are happening during the winter than in summer (for us Northerners). I have noticed on my ski touring trips, I will put the belt on wet, drive 2+ hours and then start skiing/skinning. The HR won't pick up until I start to sweat and there is enough moisture for a good connection to the skin. It has been working through many layers of clothing for many hours for me.


----------



## sb029111

martowl said:


> HR pod issues seem bizarre to me as mine has had virtually no issues. I wonder if this pod is more sensitive to static during the winter months. It seems that many more issues are happening during the winter than in summer (for us Northerners). I have noticed on my ski touring trips, I will put the belt on wet, drive 2+ hours and then start skiing/skinning. The HR won't pick up until I start to sweat and there is enough moisture for a good connection to the skin. It has been working through many layers of clothing for many hours for me.


Oddly enough, Since I've re-purchased the Ultra, (yeah, I know), and the Smart Sensor, I've had some pretty erratic readings using it. I'm about ready to go back to the Tickr-X. I don't use water on the strap, but I do use the Electrolyte Gel that they use on EKGs, and it's worked fine for well over two years. The "other" Smart Sensors I had were flawless, never had a problem, and were not only accurate, but about the most comfortable I had. However, when I sold the Ultra, I bundled it with the Chest Strap, and Smart Sensor, so they're gone. I think I'll keep the belt, but I simply don't trust it like I do the Tickr-X.
I did "turn in a ticket" to Suunto a couple days ago, but haven't heard anything back yet. We'll see.


----------



## bruceames

On my Polar belt, I just wipe a little saliva from my finger on the contacts and that's good enough. Unfortunately that's not good enough for the Suunto strap and I would definitely rather wear a dry Polar strap than a wet Suunto.


----------



## sb029111

Since we're talking chest straps here, I need to let folks know my experience with my Rhythm+ from Scosche. A few weeks ago, I decided to upgrade the firmware on my Rhythm+, to the "new" version, as it was supposed to add cadence, and a couple of other things I can't remember. It bricked the Rhythm+. Well, not "bricked" per se, but caused readings that were way out of line, my Max HR is 161, resting is 51 or so. Well, first run after the "upgrade, my heart rate went from something like 43 up into the 170's, on a simple mall walk. Not cool. 

I contacted Scosche, and they said send it in, so I did. 2 Weeks later, I still hadn't received any word about them receiving it other than my own tracking info, so I contacted them through chat on Facebook. They said someone would contact me in the next day. 3 days later, still nothing, so I contacted them again. They said my Rhythm+ was back in the mail to me, all fixed.
Okay, so I got it Monday, and checked it out today in another Mall Walk. SAME FRIGGIN' THING! Totally erratic heart rate data, and while there was indeed some eye candy at the mall, (isn't there always?), not enough to get this heart over 165, for sure. Then, on another short walk, the HR went from 65 to 123 within about 10 seconds, and stayed there. I got home, and checked the firmware on the unit suspecting that nothing was done, and I was right. Scosche did nothing but put the Rhythm+ in a plastic bag, and send it back to me.

Time to make the Wahoo Tickr FIT my mail OHR, as I won't be looking at their (Scosche's) "new" Rhythm24 anytime soon if that's the way they treat their customers.
Buyers beware before you give money to a company that treats their customers this way.

Maybe I'm expecting too much, given the service that Meir Machlin over at Milestone Sports has given me with my Milestone Pod, he actually took the initiative and E-mailed me when he noticed that I was having trouble getting it to generate useful data. I had asked him a couple months before about it, couldn't get it to work, and had gone back to the Speed_Cell. I got uset that there was nothing on the speed cell to calibrate it, can't get the software, etc, and I've never got the "walk a mile and the suunto is calibrated" thing to work. Well, Meir sent me a "new" firmware and said it should help me get more accuracy out of the pod. I installed it, there was a flurry of E-mails back and forth with instructions, hints, and encouragement, and now, the Milestone is within .02 of a mile in accuracy. Thanks to him. THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE, not turning around and mailing the same dead unit back to the customer.

RANT=OFF
Thanks for letting me vent..


----------



## SUPmission

I'm using the Scosche Rhythm+ too and never had problem with the update. It's definitely working better than the default SUUNTO Smart Sensor. The SSU itself have been working great even in crazy cold Dutch winters when training on my paddleboard. The one battery that suffers in the cold now is my iPhone7 Plus. But that rant shall go down in another forum. 

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## PTBC

I've written about my Spartan ultra issues on a coupoe of occasions and I'm on my 3 Ultra after 2 warranty replacements; in both previous cases there was one particular event that triggered the replacement, funnily enough both race events. The first one was poor track that had me the wrong side of a mall (it's a largish mall) and over 15% out on distance (March last year), the second was a 30%+ difference on a seawall run (October).

This weekend I ran 2 race events (Sat/Sun) one being a repeat of last years event with the mall error and another being on the same course as the second event.

For the courses I had 9.9 and 10.1 so spot on for distance and on the first event which had km markers the lap markers were spot on and consistent around the course, there were some wobbles on the detail GPS (running in the water sometimes not the seawall, through the corner of building while running through the mall), but overall good. The second course may have benefited from Glonass, but half the course is through mall and between buildings and the other half is back along the seawall and beach path so I left it off, would be good to have it fixed as there is a lot of mixed environments like that for me. Pacing was good (though I did use a milestone pod as well) and heartbeat from a Scoshe rhythm+ worked fine. Working on maintaining pace was my goal for the weekend (working towards first half marathon in May) and finished both race with a 10sec difference overall so the pace reporting was definitely useful.


----------



## cizi

cizi said:


> Hello guys, I need your advice if it's possible. I am owner of Garmin Fenix 5 and I have opportunity to buy SSU with HR strap for a great price and save some money. I am thinking about switching from Fenix 5 to SSU but not sure if is it a great step because on the forums is still many complains about battery life , bugs etc. Basically I swim (pool), hike, run, MTB and weight training. Can you please give me a hint? Thanks a lot....


So, OK. Still have Fenix 5 and in my hands I got Suunto Spartan Sport. Made some comparison here....

Trying figure out some pros and cons between Fenix3 vs Fenix5 vs Sunnto for example Sport. I bought my first sport watch 2 years ago, Fenix3, and had been quite surprised about features etc. After one year (from now one year ago) I sold the Fenix3 a got Spartan Ultra. I was disappointed of lack of features comparing of Fenix3 (lack of timer, floors climbing, sleeping etc, custom watch face etc.) and returned SSU and bought Fenix 5. Quite happy with Fenix 5 till I did some research about data accuracy and still I am little bit shocked what Fenix 5 does. Altimetr almost all the time shows +/- 100 meters different value, barometer accuracy hard to say because I have no chance to compare with real data but after all thinking, barometer is useless feature for me, thermometer as well.

Nowadays I don't mind how many steps, floor, sleep hours I did during the day, nowadays I am focused of what can bring me the watch during outdoor workout (run, trail run, bike, hike etc.) which I compared below.

Two days ago I made with friend of mine 25 km of cross-country skiing and result was quite funny. He had Fenix3, I had Fenix 5 on one hand, Suunto Spartan Sport on the other. Summary. Distance plus/minus 1 km different, OK, I got it but speed, ascend/descent totally different. 
Watch - max speed - ascend - descent
Friend's Fenix3 - 180Km/h - 475m - 465m
Mine Fenix5 - 50km/h - 480m - 501m
Mine SSS - 24Km/h - 414m - 411m

It was my second time on cross-country skiing and I am certainly sure that my speed was't 50 km/h and I 100% sure that friend's speed wasn't 180 km/h . Then I import GPX files to the map and compare ascend/descent. Be surprised or not but SSS does not have barometric altimetr and cost half price compare to Fenix5 but has the smallest deviation from reality (only +/- 20m, Fenix* has something about 80m).

Summary - to be honest if you probably have Fenix and don't care about data (like me till now) you will be probably happy with featured watch series Fenix but if you focus on data accuracy a little bit, you find out that are quite huge differences. Not sure what watch should I keep if Fenix5 or SSS. Because Fenix 3 has been released in 2015 and Fenix 3 in 2017. From now it does 3 years and not match progress in data accuracy as I see.....

If your read the whole post sorry from my English, I am not native speaker...


----------



## Jaka83

The barometer certainly helps, especially with proper FusedAlti. Watches without a barometer will show big discrepancies when put in tough conditions (canyon walls, trees etc.). When the GPS doesn't have a high enough signal, the data will be skewed in all three axis (bad triangulation). With a barometer and algorithms for fast changing pressure based on your movement or weather changes, the vertical data is much more accurate. The change in altitude will always result in change of barometric pressure even if your barometer is uncalibrated and shows the wrong absolute altitude.
The problem with the absolute reading for your altitude based on barometric pressure lies in the change of weather which in some parts of the world can be very location specific. There are two ways you can circumvent this - know your absolute barometric pressure or know your altitude. The latter can be set in the watch manually or let the watch figure it out using GPS triangulation and adjust the value for the given pressure.
A GPS-only watch will have problems in some situations but is mostly quite accurate in reading the altitude. A barometric based watch will be more accurate 95% of the time (I reserved those 5% for extreme weather scenarios), but I take it almost nobody runs in the mountains while a thunderstorm is chasing you. 

As for speed and route accuracy, both will be equally bad, just depends on the antenna design and GPS chip used. Can't comment on the Fenix series as I never owned one, but have been very satisfied with the Ambit series and lately with the SSU after the last couple of FW updates.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

cizi said:


> Then I import GPX files to the map and compare ascend/descent. Be surprised or not but SSS does not have barometric altimetr and cost half price compare to Fenix5 but has the smallest deviation from reality (only +/- 20m, Fenix* has something about 80m).


Just to add to Jaka's comments, you cannot take a GPS track imported to a GIS and accept this as a gold standard for elevation changes. You just have to look at Strava and see how it overestimates elevation gain as an example. The Sport generally underestimates elevation changes compared to pressure enabled devices especially over undulating terrain. 
But I agree Sport (both Spartan and Ambit) it is very good utilising GPS only elevation.


----------



## cizi

Philip Onayeti said:


> Just to add to Jaka's comments, you cannot take a GPS track imported to a GIS and accept this as a gold standard for elevation changes. You just have to look at Strava and see how it overestimates elevation gain as an example. The Sport generally underestimates elevation changes compared to pressure enabled devices especially over undulating terrain.
> But I agree Sport (both Spartan and Ambit) it is very good utilising GPS only elevation.


That's quite clear that importing GPX in any map service don't give me an exact ascend/descent. But trying to find any point to compare here. Plus/minus the ascends/descends shown are acceptable on all watches. Maybe the point here that everyone wants to have the most featured watches but not always is it useful....


----------



## kralik_j

Could you pls make measuring temperature test? I suppose that My sparta ultra black is not measure right.
Pls compare g3 vs g5 vs suunto sport in same condition


----------



## martowl

kralik_j said:


> Could you pls make measuring temperature test? I suppose that My sparta ultra black is not measure right.
> Pls compare g3 vs g5 vs suunto sport in same condition


If you are wearing on your wrist, the temperature will be affected by the body heat. It will not tell you the outside temp.


----------



## cizi

kralik_j said:


> Could you pls make measuring temperature test? I suppose that My sparta ultra black is not measure right.
> Pls compare g3 vs g5 vs suunto sport in same condition


Here is not much to compare. As @martowl said - temperature is always affected by your body. Then is necessity to wear the watches outside (sleeve, better handlebar if you on bike). Spartan Sport does not have temperature sensor and it means that only F3 vs F5 vs SSU have meaning. But problem is I don't have F3 (friend of mine has) and I don't have SSU. Anyway there should not be differences. Conclusion - ff you want exact test take classic thermometer and SSU and get outside for a while .


----------



## slashas

cizi said:


> Here is not much to compare. As @martowl said - temperature is always affected by your body. Then is necessity to wear the watches outside (sleeve, better handlebar if you on bike). Spartan Sport does not have temperature sensor and it means that only F3 vs F5 vs SSU have meaning. But problem is I don't have F3 (friend of mine has) and I don't have SSU. Anyway there should not be differences. Conclusion - ff you want exact test take classic thermometer and SSU and get outside for a while .


Sport baro has Temperature sensor


----------



## bruceames

Watch should be away from your body and in the shade at least 15 minutes in order to get an accurate temp. reading. If you're hiking then you can take it off your wrist during rest breaks, and then later in the logs you can get accurate snapshots of those recorded temps during those rest intervals. Garmin has a Tempe pod you can wear on your shoe or body somewhere (where your body heat doesn't interfere), but even then it is only accurate when it's not being exposed to sunlight. It would be nice if Suunto had one, or at least if there were a Bluetooth temp pod that would work with Suunto watches. I would get it.


----------



## sb029111

bruceames said:


> Watch should be away from your body and in the shade at least 15 minutes in order to get an accurate temp. reading. If you're hiking then you can take it off your wrist during rest breaks, and then later in the logs you can get accurate snapshots of those recorded temps during those rest intervals. Garmin has a Tempe pod you can wear on your shoe or body somewhere (where your body heat doesn't interfere), but even then it is only accurate when it's not being exposed to sunlight. It would be nice if Suunto had one, or at least if there were a Bluetooth temp pod that would work with Suunto watches. I would get it.


I have a tempe pod, and love it when I had the Fenix, and use it on my bike when I'm riding. +1 for the Bluetooth temp device.


----------



## slashas

sb029111 said:


> I have a tempe pod, and love it when I had the Fenix, and use it on my bike when I'm riding. +1 for the Bluetooth temp device.


I use watch bar on the bike and get correct outside temp from the watch as body temp do not interfere, same with hiking sticking watch to the bag.


----------



## bruceames

When hiking I usually have the watch on my chest strap. The watch face is a few inches from my body so the temps may be a couple of degrees off, but still fairly accurate as long as the sun doesn't hit it. Also easier to read from there as I just have to look down.


----------



## Weeman007

Hi, is it correct that the ultra has got storm alarm as well and sunrise/sunset times? What about moon phases and moon rise/set times? Can't decide between the traverse and the ultra


----------



## Jaka83

It has everything you mentioned, except the moon rise/set times. Moon phases are displayed with an icon and percentage, sunset and sunrise times are only displayed with the active outdoors watchface. Storm alarms sometimes kick in on a beautiful sunny ski day when you're riding the slopes too hard.


----------



## Lakerveldt

It's almost the 17th of April. Is Suunto still on their 3 month FW update cycle? My wishes from Oktober '17 are still very relevant:



Lakerveldt said:


> Ok, now that that October update is well known, we should discuss what's required in future updates. It seems to me that Suunto is reading the comments in this topic.
> For me multiple sensor compatibility is on the top of the list. Especially dual pedal power meter compatibility. It's frustrating that my P1 sett is practically working as a P1s sett.
> Following up on that would be extended power meter readings: L/R balance, Intensity Factor, Stroke analysis in moves count is according to me still missing. Something that Garmin an Polar have implemented nicely when using the right power meter.
> Finally, I would like to see the "teach swim style" functionality from my Ambit 2S back. Calibration of swim style gives better logs.
> So Suunto, if your reading this, I like my SSU. It has worked great in multiple triathlons, road bike races, MTB races, runs, etc. I love the looks, battery life, screen, menus and build quality. But there is still some room for improvement with regard to the functionality.


----------



## slashas

Suunto marketed that they will release FW every quarter, so I will be quite disappointed if will not happen. But knowing that suunto have released half packed watch on release and was without functions which were in the user manual. I will take quarter updates with grain of salt


----------



## zvojan

nordic walking on tuesday with suunto smart sensor (last use of that crap for sure) - upper image
same nordic walking today with brand new polar h10 ( i love it) - below image

no comment required


----------



## zvojan

the suunto strap is 3 weeks old, battery 3 days, bluetooth senzor 1,5 year.


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## slashas

Polar strap is way overpriced...


----------



## zvojan

slashas said:


> Polar strap is way overpriced...


i agree with you. In my county polar cost 72,9 eur - expensive of course. Suunto Smart sensor cost 79,9 eur, it is overpriced for exactly 79,9 eur according to the results


----------



## martowl

zvojan said:


> nordic walking on tuesday with suunto smart sensor (last use of that crap for sure) - upper image
> same nordic walking today with brand new polar h10 ( i love it) - below image
> 
> no comment required


I have not had these issues, but lately my Suunto Smart HR has been acting up very similarly to yours. When I wash the belt it works for one exercise then went bad again. Switched belts and now works flawlessly. So the belt is not crap and some have issues while some do not. I am in the latter group. There is a reason for your issue, seems like we don't know what it is. In my experience the Suunto is more sensitive to static. I live in a dry environment and if not wet enough I can have problems but it is rare. In addition the Suunto belt is the only one that can sync back to the watch and clearly yours is not doing that. It is possible that there is something wrong with yours.


----------



## Jaka83

Mine has been working fine after the second to last update. I bought a new one after the sensor started producing strange data a couple of updates ago, but both sensors have been working fine lately. I just wish I could pair them both under separate names and not go through the process of pairing each one when I switch.
Waiting for the next update in anticipation ... these last 3 months have gone by so quickly.


----------



## sb029111

Jaka83 said:


> I just wish I could pair them both under separate names and not go through the process of pairing each one when I switch.
> Waiting for the next update in anticipation ... these last 3 months have gone by so quickly.


My main wish for an improvement for the Spartan line, exactly that ^^^^. I regularly switch between Scosche Rhythm+, Wahoo Tickr Fit, Ticker-X, and Smart Sensor. I also have a PowerCal chest strap that I haven't tried yet with the Suunto, and to be able to have a "pool" of these would be wonderful.
One other thing I was thinking of last night, is on the Garmin, you have the capibility of getting a "recovery heart rate", that is, if you stop the activity, but don't save it, in 2 minutes, it will generate a "recovery heart rate" to show how much your heart has decreased which apparently is an indication of how you're doing on that activity. It writes to the .FIT file, but SportTracks 3 is the only software that I've found that will use it. Still interesting to note the decrease.


----------



## bruceames

slashas said:


> Polar strap is way overpriced...


The Polar H7 is cheap and works just as well.


----------



## bruceames

My main wishes are being able to pair two Bluetooth watches to the same HR strap (Bluetooth limitation that Suunto can't solve). Also having the option (on the watch or in MC) to have the average and minimum HR occur after the first 2 minutes of exercise. A minimum HR of 71 is meaningless if it was the HR you started out at when you were rested. Likewise the first lap (mile, in my case) HR average is always going to be the lowest since it takes a couple of minutes for my HR to get into the normal range for the given speed.


----------



## renton82

I wish that they will implement drill log for swim activity... now for me is totally useless for swim... i will always miss 1/4 of my workout...


----------



## mbergi

zvojan said:


> nordic walking on tuesday with suunto smart sensor (last use of that crap for sure) - upper image
> same nordic walking today with brand new polar h10 ( i love it) - below image
> 
> no comment required
> 
> View attachment 13033295


I bought a Spartan Ultra a few weeks ago. I use the Smart Sensor for nearly every move. My previous watch was an Ambit 3 Peak. I also had heart monitor issues with the Ambit 3 Peak at the beginning. For me the solution was to moisture the skin extensivly on the spots where the Sensor oft the belt touches the skin. I don't put any moisture on the belt itself. Since I do that, i never had any issues at all. The Spartan Ultra is as spot on all the time.

This guy has made the same experience i guess:
youtube.com/watch?v=QXJ0spt9A1E

(Sorry for my English - I'M Austrian)


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> My main wishes are being able to pair two Bluetooth watches to the same HR strap (Bluetooth limitation that Suunto can't solve). Also having the option (on the watch or in MC) to have the average and minimum HR occur after the first 2 minutes of exercise. A minimum HR of 71 is meaningless if it was the HR you started out at when you were rested. Likewise the first lap (mile, in my case) HR average is always going to be the lowest since it takes a couple of minutes for my HR to get into the normal range for the given speed.


I saw somewhere in a post that in new BT code for the Spartans there is evidence for multiple pod pairing. I am confident it is coming but don't know when. I agree this is a pain that affects a lot of folks. I think we will be getting some potential training and HR updates in the next firmware hopefully this month.


----------



## sb029111

martowl said:


> I saw somewhere in a post that in new BT code for the Spartans there is evidence for multiple pod pairing. I am confident it is coming but don't know when. I agree this is a pain that affects a lot of folks. I think we will be getting some potential training and HR updates in the next firmware hopefully this month.


WOW, if multiple pod pairings happens, I'll be happier than a pig in... well, pretty darned happy! This is the one thing I miss most from Garmin.


----------



## -Laurie-

Is there any way to delete the Navigation screen, I don't need it for interval work and basic training, it's annoying having extra button presses to get back to the first screen.
Also after exhaustive testing I now use my Ambit 3 for races (been mentioned before many times) because my Spartan is consistently 150m short on our Parkrun, useless for pacing, which means movescount never records a full 5K in the personal bests. My Ambit 3 is only 1 or 2 meters off with almost perfect gps tracking.


----------



## iapyx

So, I've been staying far away from the Spartan Ultra for a long time, hoping that by my return the issues with it would be solved and that I'd be reading only good news about this watch. 
Could you guys tell me what your thoughts are about this watch now?
Is it better, are the problems solved, is the gps-reception good,etc?

FYI: I have an Ambit2 that I like (also the looks, and found out that there is a new Spartan Variant that looks more like the Ambit, although it's not my colour) --> 
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/01...o-firmware-update-for-all-spartan-owners.html

Thanks!


----------



## -Laurie-

iapyx said:


> Could you guys tell me what your thoughts are about this watch now?


Well since I'm online here goes. I'm mainly a runner and hiking, for other sports I'm sure people will post their thoughts.

It's a superb training watch
- loads of sport specific options available for custom screens
- Easy to read while running
- The new heart rate zones on the outside of the watch is an excellent feature
- Cadence measurement is very good (I run with a metronome and the watch is only 1 out)!
- Great battery life
- Connection to HR belt is rock solid (wet skin, not belt)
- Very comfortable to wear
- Looks awesome (had loads of great comments) Looks great for sport or with a suit.

Things I don't like, but others don't mind
- GPS tracking on mine isn't as good as my Ambit3 (other people say it's as good, so...)
- Measured distance in heavy trees etc isn't great (see my post above). However, talking to others runners, Garmin users have the same problem.

That's it, overall I love the watch, just not for important racing in built-up areas.

I don't use pod sensors' so other's need to comment on that. Hope this helps a little.


----------



## iapyx

Thanks Laurie, that is imformative. Nice to hear. 
In the beginning there were a lot of issues. So those are solved?
I don't use pod sensors either


----------



## PTBC

-Laurie- said:


> Things I don't like, but others don't mind
> - GPS tracking on mine isn't as good as my Ambit3 (other people say it's as good, so...)
> - Measured distance in heavy trees etc isn't great (see my post above). However, talking to others runners, Garmin users have the same problem.
> 
> That's it, overall I love the watch, just not for important racing in built-up areas.


Don't know if it's just the GPS is very sensitive to changes in conditions, but there does seem to be gap between the performance some people are reporting and others are seeing, definitely a try it and see who it works for you function. hopefully if they manage to sort Glonass out it will improve built-up areas and mixed environments


----------



## iapyx

Thanks Laurie, 

so the watch is now more reliable than when it was first released. 
There were so many complaints about the gps reception, the software, etc. 
All that has been solved? 
Could you say it's as reliable as the Ambit?

PS. I don't use any pod sensors, but any info on those is welcome as it could be informative to others


----------



## -Laurie-

iapyx said:


> Thanks Laurie,
> 
> so the watch is now more reliable than when it was first released.
> There were so many complaints about the gps reception, the software, etc.
> All that has been solved?
> Could you say it's as reliable as the Ambit?
> 
> PS. I don't use any pod sensors, but any info on those is welcome as it could be informative to others


Well, I can only speak for the experience with my watch. 
I'd say it was totally reliable software wise, I haven't had a single issue. but I will honestly say I was really disappointed with the gps compared to my Ambit 3. However I soon realised it was a much better training watch and I now love it.

I would still say the Ambit3 is more accurate in difficult conditions regarding gps tracking.
But as a training watch the Spartan is much better overall. Mainly from the larger screen and more functions, you really notice the difference. It's a lovely watch to use. 95% I use the Spartan and my Ambit3 for races where I want to see better gps tracking.
Don't get me wrong it's not ...., just not as reliable tracking over laps. But that's my watch, I've read people who say it better than the Ambit3! (I must have a great Ambit3)

I've spoken to loads of runners, mainly Garmin users and they report similar problems with new watches, so it's not just Suunto. ie. older watches seem to have better gps. One person I spoke to won't run our Parkrun because her watch performs so poorly (Garmin 235)
I think all these new watches are being crammed so much stuff gps is suffering.

ok, a bit of waffling there, apologies for that.


----------



## bruceames

GPS will never be as good as the Ambit. If I ran consistently in heavy tree cover than it might be an issue but the GPS accuracy has been good enough for me.

However for the last 6 months GPS is a non-issue for me as I now use the Stryd footpod to measure distance, pace, cadence and power. Distance and cadence with the Stryd are far more accurate than any GPS watch. I've tested it on a marathon and half marathon so far. The 2018 CIM it measured 26.31 miles, only .09 over the official 26.22 miles. The year before it was 26.39 and with other marathons its been around the same or a little higher. For the half marathon I ran in February it was 13.14 miles, only .03 over the distance. With the GPS I've had to get used to the watch being close to .01 per mile off and it was frustrating to see the mile markers get further away from what the watch says. But now the mile markers end up only a few yards ahead of the watch. It's a big deal to me to know that my watch pace (the Stryd pace is also much more consistent than GPS, which can go over all the place) is in line with the actual pace. Anyway IMHO, if you're gonna spend $500 or more on a high end watch and accuracy is very important to you, it seems like a no brainer to spend an extra $200 for the Stryd. The upgrade in accuracy is well worth it.


----------



## -Laurie-

bruceames said:


> GPS will never be as good as the Ambit. If I ran consistently in heavy tree cover than it might be an issue but the GPS accuracy has been good enough for me.
> 
> However for the last 6 months GPS is a non-issue for me as I now use the Stryd footpod to measure distance, pace, cadence and power. Distance and cadence with the Stryd are far more accurate than any GPS watch. I've tested it on a marathon and half marathon so far. The 2018 CIM it measured 26.31 miles, only .09 over the official 26.22 miles. The year before it was 26.39 and with other marathons its been around the same or a little higher. For the half marathon I ran in February it was 13.14 miles, only .03 over the distance. With the GPS I've had to get used to the watch being close to .01 per mile off and it was frustrating to see the mile markers get further away from what the watch says. But now the mile markers end up only a few yards ahead of the watch. It's a big deal to me to know that my watch pace (the Stryd pace is also much more consistent than GPS, which can go over all the place) is in line with the actual pace. Anyway IMHO, if you're gonna spend $500 or more on a high end watch and accuracy is very important to you, it seems like a no brainer to spend an extra $200 for the Stryd. The upgrade in accuracy is well worth it.


Yes, i've heard lots good things about the Stryd, but that's another £200 on top of a very expensive watch to being with. These new watches SHOULD be as good as an older model.
I have to say, if I had the money I'd really be tempted by the Stryd, (Shame it's not fully waterproof).

Edit, just read your end sentence again. With the Stryd you wouldn't actually need a high-end watch would you?


----------



## kralik_j

For me still missing advanced software features.

Example:
- would like know slope. What is skope from my track on some distance and altitude
- would know during planning my track also slope and to see on navigation in terrain

It is simple mathematical calculation

Slope (°) = (altitude difference/distance )*100


On the maps base are both datas


During workout watch logs also both datas and can be evaluated what slope is done and what is the next one


This feature of slope is only in downhill watch screen. Why not option on MTB or trail running.?

After yesterday alpin skiing touring would like evaluate of top peak and understand technical side of terrain vs slope (also potential technical skiing risk, or avalanche hazard..)


----------



## -Laurie-

kralik_j said:


> This feature of slope is only in downhill watch screen. Why not option on MTB or trail running.?


Good point, would be nice to see slope/hill gradients.


----------



## BobMiles

I should be Suunto Update day this week, shouldn't it?


----------



## Jaka83

No word of an update yet...  oh well, off I go cycling then. 
Updates for Suunto Spartan


----------



## iapyx

In a sub-forum here someone writes about the face/display of his Suunto Spartan Trainer Wrist HR goes blank for several seconds when he starts an activity. 
https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/starting-activity-my-suunto-spartan-trainer-wrist-hr-4616743.html

Does this happen with the Spartan Ultra as well? Anyone experiencing this?

As for those of you experiencing troubles with the connectivity of the HR-belt, this is what I do: 
When I go cycling, I put the belt around my chest (dry) about half an hour before I start the activity. 
My Ambit2 never has any troubles finding it immediately.


----------



## Egika

iapyx said:


> In a sub-forum here someone writes about the face/display of his Suunto Spartan Trainer Wrist HR goes blank for several seconds when he starts an activity.
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/starting-activity-my-suunto-spartan-trainer-wrist-hr-4616743.html
> 
> Does this happen with the Spartan Ultra as well? Anyone experiencing this?


Yes.
Normal for all Spartans.
Part of that blank display time is already recorded.


----------



## iapyx

Hm, that delay... it would annoy me a lot. And I read the delay gets worse as the memory gets fuller.


----------



## Joakim Agren

iapyx said:


> Hm, that delay... it would annoy me a lot. And I read the delay gets worse as the memory gets fuller.


Most likely a result of the Spartans being Java based watches. Java is always slow to load at first in my experience. It is the same with Python based software as well.


----------



## slashas

Joakim Agren said:


> Most likely a result of the Spartans being Java based watches. Java is always slow to load at first in my experience. It is the same with Python based software as well.


Dont get me wrong, but you are saying from user perspective or developer? As I can say from developer perspective that python based applications works fast it everything depends how it written


----------



## sb029111

slashas said:


> Dont get me wrong, but you are saying from user perspective or developer? As I can say from developer perspective that python based applications works fast it everything depends how it written


Monty Python was a developer????


----------



## slashas

sb029111 said:


> Monty Python was a developer????


I am too young to know such archaic stuff


----------



## Jaka83

slashas said:


> I am too young to know such archaic stuff











Sorry, I'm just bored.  But really, you should watch some of their stuff - legendary.


----------



## PTBC

sb029111 said:


> Monty Python was a developer????


I've seen some development work where that seems to be the only logical explanation for the results; the magically appearing invisible button being one that springs to mind


----------



## PTBC

Did a large run on the weekend (41k+ runners) compared to last year the inital GPS doesn't look great, distance shows up as 400m longer year on year (over 10km course) and compared to Milestone the first km pace is a minute faster, oddly last year was cloudy with light rain and this year was clear skies......didn't use Glonass this year, can't remember if I did last year. Shows the advantage of using a footpod and not just relying on the watch

This year....








Last year......


----------



## Philip Onayeti

PTBC said:


> Shows the advantage of using a footpod and not just relying on the watch


To me it shows the advantage of using an Ambit and not relying on a Spartan


----------



## Egika

PTBC said:


> Did a large run on the weekend (41k+ runners) compared to last year the inital GPS doesn't look great, distance shows up as 400m longer year on year (over 10km course) and compared to Milestone the first km pace is a minute faster, oddly last year was cloudy with light rain and this year was clear skies......didn't use Glonass this year, can't remember if I did last year. Shows the advantage of using a footpod and not just relying on the watch


You can't draw conclusions like this from two single events. GPS accuracy depends on so many things. Not only the weather, but satellite constellation, stratospheric weather (meaning ions in the higher atmosphere), solar activity, etc..


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Egika said:


> You can't draw conclusions like this from two single events. GPS accuracy depends on so many things. Not only the weather, but satellite constellation, stratospheric weather (meaning ions in the higher atmosphere), solar activity, etc..


So why can't you draw conclusion that a good footpod has advantage over a poor performing GPS? You just gave reasons to support his comments.


----------



## Egika

Philip Onayeti said:


> So why can't you draw conclusion that a good footpod has advantage over a poor performing GPS? You just gave reasons to support his comments.


was not commenting on the GPS vs footpod thing. But on the different quality tracks and differently performing GPS.
Maybe I got the meaning of the initial post wrong...
Sorry for that


----------



## slashas

PTBC said:


> Did a large run on the weekend (41k+ runners) compared to last year the inital GPS doesn't look great, distance shows up as 400m longer year on year (over 10km course) and compared to Milestone the first km pace is a minute faster, oddly last year was cloudy with light rain and this year was clear skies......didn't use Glonass this year, can't remember if I did last year. Shows the advantage of using a footpod and not just relying on the watch
> 
> This year....
> View attachment 13083903
> 
> 
> Last year......
> View attachment 13083915


I would suggest before run sync watch with app to update Satellite location file and have latest satellites locations I did few tests and it improves gps accuracy.


----------



## iapyx

Who can tell me what the battery life of the Spartan Ultra is - compared to the Ambit2? 
My Ambit has 30 days battery life when the gps (and compass and light) is not used. One big plus for that!
Battery life of the Spartan is shorter I guess?


----------



## PTBC

slashas said:


> I would suggest before run sync watch with app to update Satellite location file and have latest satellites locations I did few tests and it improves gps accuracy.


It was synced..the day before and the day of


----------



## PTBC

Egika said:


> You can't draw conclusions like this from two single events. GPS accuracy depends on so many things. Not only the weather, but satellite constellation, stratospheric weather (meaning ions in the higher atmosphere), solar activity, etc..


Sorry, should have been clearer. Yes I agree you can't compare two events, there will always be some degree of variance due to multiple factors, though I do think that the difference between the two is more notable than I would expect. It was more a comment that GPS will continue to have limitations that mean additional sensors are going to remain useful, I'm on my 3rd Spartan (2 warranty replacements) so I'd (hopefully) rule out hardware issue and just say GPS variability.....though I have had issues with the Spartan having shaky starts on tracks even when being 'soaked' so how much is software algorithms/processing vs GPS general issues is open to debate.
Certainly the Spartan seems sometimes to struggle to draw a straightish line when other sensor data (assuming GPS is patchy) would hopefully suggest it should, there's most probably some more smoothing that can be applied to the data to assume I didn't just jump 20 foot to the side or run at 60mph for 5 secs (all of which is behaviour I've seen on Spartan tracks)


----------



## bruceames

People who still continue to complain that the GPS isn't as good as the Ambit need to let it go. It is what it is. They redesigned the watch for aesthetics, and had to sacrifice a little accuracy. The GPS accuracy is still better than any of the Fenix watches. But it's never going to achieve Ambit level accuracy. If that's what you need, then wear an Ambit.


----------



## Jaka83

The April SSU update is live for some users!

EDIT:
Sorry, false alarm, it was just a SuuntoLink update.


----------



## PTBC

Jaka83 said:


> The April SSU update is live for some users!
> 
> EDIT:
> Sorry, false alarm, it was just a SuuntoLink update.


It will come out just before May 6th so I'm left with the dilemma of updating or leaving it as-is for my first half marathon, at which point whichever decision I make will turn out to be the wrong one


----------



## slashas

PTBC said:


> It will come out just before May 6th so I'm left with the dilemma of updating or leaving it as-is for my first half marathon, at which point whichever decision I make will turn out to be the wrong one


You work at suunto?


----------



## BobMiles

PTBC said:


> It will come out just before May 6th so I'm left with the dilemma of updating or leaving it as-is for my first half marathon, at which point whichever decision I make will turn out to be the wrong one


Do not update, if your watch is running stable right now, keep it like this. I did the "update before a race, come on it can't be worse than right now" thing... Result was a crash after 7km leaving me uncertain about my progress during the race.
Also, loading new routes or editing sport modes before a race,not a good idea...
Maybe the update will bring stability, but from experience I wouldn't bet on this.


----------



## -Laurie-

bruceames said:


> People who still continue to complain that the GPS isn't as good as the Ambit need to let it go. It is what it is. They redesigned the watch for aesthetics, and had to sacrifice a little accuracy. The GPS accuracy is still better than any of the Fenix watches. But it's never going to achieve Ambit level accuracy. If that's what you need, then wear an Ambit.


I think that is a totally correct statement. However that conclusion can only be made after buying and using the Suunto Spartan.

I can't remember seeing any advertising stating it wasn't as accurate as the Ambit3 (by Suunto). Maybe that's why they haven't dropped the Ambit 3 Peak, but I still stand by my opinion that a new watch (£500+) should be better. That's a lot of money for aesthetics.

That's my little rant over with, and as you know I still use my Spartan 95% of the time. Just not for racing.


----------



## TmanIsHere

-Laurie- said:


> I can't remember seeing any advertising stating it wasn't as accurate as the Ambit3 (by Suunto). Maybe that's why they haven't dropped the Ambit 3 Peak, but I still stand by my opinion that a new watch (£500+) should be better. That's a lot of money for aesthetics.


I think the accuracy of SSU is compromised by the lack of antenna as seen on the old Ambit series. As you'll find out, Spartan Trainer uses the same antenna and doesn't suffer the accuracy that SSU watches do. Some people find the slight loss in accuracy to be a big deal while others can live with the better aesthetics.


----------



## Egika

Quick question:

While recording a move - how can I save my current location as a waypoint or poi to find it later?

Thanks!


----------



## BobMiles

Egika said:


> Quick question:
> 
> While recording a move - how can I save my current location as a waypoint or poi to find it later?
> 
> Thanks!


In navigation screen bring up the menu (either use lower button or swipe up) then go to my location and save it.


----------



## PTBC

Egika said:


> Quick question:
> 
> While recording a move - how can I save my current location as a waypoint or poi to find it later?
> 
> Thanks!


If you swipe up on the breadcrumb screen the menu includes the Your Location option, indoors so don't have GPS to test, but that gives you an option to save a POI in the Navigation section so hopefully does the same if accessing it from a move


----------



## slashas

TmanIsHere said:


> I think the accuracy of SSU is compromised by the lack of antenna as seen on the old Ambit series. As you'll find out, Spartan Trainer uses the same antenna and doesn't suffer the accuracy that SSU watches do. Some people find the slight loss in accuracy to be a big deal while others can live with the better aesthetics.


Are you sure about antennas? SSU is having it under the bezel same as on trainer and SSU is using sirfstar gps modul which is way better than trainers mediatek. From where you got such info that trainer is better in terms of the gps accuracy?


----------



## Philip Onayeti

slashas said:


> SSU is having it under the bezel same as on trainer


I doubt that. If it is under the bezel why the bump on the Trainer? I would say the Trainer is as per the Ambit series.



slashas said:


> . From where you got such info that trainer is better in terms of the gps accuracy?


Not sure about TmanIsHere but my info comes from using both watches concurrently and Trainer almost always has better tracks. A couple of examples:

Suunto Spartan Trainer Wrist HR - Page 35
Suunto Spartan Trainer Wrist HR - Page 29


----------



## TmanIsHere

slashas said:


> From where you got such info that trainer is better in terms of the gps accuracy?


GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


----------



## slashas

TmanIsHere said:


> GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


Test trainer with metallic bezel and you will see how GPS accuracy will degrade. My wife's trainer outdoor performs worst than mine spartan baro 
Regular trainer is with plastic bezel as the ambit.


----------



## Egika

slashas said:


> Test trainer with metallic bezel and you will see how GPS accuracy will degrade. My wife's trainer outdoor performs worst than mine spartan baro
> Regular trainer is with plastic bezel as the ambit.


individual devices compared on individual cases with individuals wearing them do not make for a general statement.


----------



## slashas

Egika said:


> individual devices compared on individual cases with individuals wearing them do not make for a general statement.


Well this is just my real life experience


----------



## -Laurie-

slashas said:


> Test trainer with metallic bezel and you will see how GPS accuracy will degrade. My wife's trainer outdoor performs worst than mine spartan baro
> Regular trainer is with plastic bezel as the ambit.


That's very interesting, any other reports confirming metal bezel can effect gps tracking?


----------



## slashas

-Laurie- said:


> That's very interesting, any other reports confirming metal bezel can effect gps tracking?


Same history with Garmin Fenix line, 2/7/9 series watches outperform Fenix line watches in terms of accuracy and all these 2/7/9 are plastic bezel watches.


----------



## paul1928

Egika said:


> individual devices compared on individual cases with individuals wearing them do not make for a general statement.


I haven't noticed this degradation. My Trainer with metal bezel gives very similar tracks to my Trainer with Plastic bezel when compared side-by-side.


----------



## Egika

paul1928 said:


> I haven't noticed this degradation. My Trainer with metal bezel gives very similar tracks to my Trainer with Plastic bezel when compared side-by-side.


Same here.
Wife upgraded from plastic Trainer to the Gold one.
-> no difference in GPS performance


----------



## slashas

Egika said:


> Same here.
> Wife upgraded from plastic Trainer to the Gold one.
> -> no difference in GPS performance


But my wife's outdoor trainer perform worst than ssbaro...


----------



## Egika

slashas said:


> But my wife's outdoor trainer perform worst than ssbaro...


I saw that.
My SSU performs absolutely comparable to the Gold Trainer and also equal to the Ambit3 I had before.

Now - what does one get from this?

All watches can be ok for GPS tracking or following a path.
There are individual exceptions based on location, wearing style, individual watch, ionospheric weather, etc.
Don't take the last few m of track accuracy too seriously - distance and speed need to be reliable though for training.


----------



## slashas

Anyway both perform better than Fenix 5 line 
And ssbaro altimeter is just spot on! Non comparable


----------



## bruceames

If you hold the SSU so that the bezel is facing the sky you will get the best GPS signal. Probably just as good as the A3. So how you wear the watch has a big bearing. With the position of the nub on the A3, the (patch) antenna is already facing the sky in a "normal" running arm/wrist postion. So that where most of the advantage is.


----------



## TmanIsHere

bruceames said:


> If you hold the SSU so that the bezel is facing the sky you will get the best GPS signal. Probably just as good as the A3. So how you wear the watch has a big bearing. With the position of the nub on the A3, the (patch) antenna is already facing the sky in a "normal" running arm/wrist postion. So that where most of the advantage is.


Interesting. Wouldn't that mean the the watch would perform horribly for right hand wearers vs left hand wearer?

Edit: Nvm. I should have thought about this before I typed the question. It doesn't make a difference.


----------



## slashas

TmanIsHere said:


> Interesting. Wouldn't that mean the the watch would perform horribly for right hand wearers vs left hand wearer?
> 
> Edit: Nvm. I should have thought about this before I typed the question. It doesn't make a difference.


Definitely would improve if placed on the head


----------



## PTBC

slashas said:


> Definitely would improve if placed on the head


Would like to see better algorithms for when the data is patchy and maybe more weighting on non-GPS data when that happens, recent move the section underneath a bridge deck (no-GPS) is good, then there's other sections along the street (low buildings, beach on one side) where it just veers from side to side with sideways jumps at points


----------



## wolfmandim

Just bought it.
Looks great, the only problem I can see so far is the brightness, got it at 100% and still not happy!


----------



## Philip Onayeti

wolfmandim said:


> Just bought it.
> Looks great, the only problem I can see so far is the brightness, got it at 100% and still not happy!


Do you have standby backlight on? Otherwise very hard to read.


----------



## Egika

wolfmandim said:


> Just bought it.
> Looks great, the only problem I can see so far is the brightness, got it at 100% and still not happy!


Take it outside into the sun!


----------



## wolfmandim

Standby Backlight is ON. If I press the center button, time is acceptable to see. 
However, still, I would have expected more brightness out of a Suunto watch!


----------



## wolfmandim

Standby Backlight is ON. If I press the center button, time is acceptable to see. 
However, still, I would have expected more brightness out of a Suunto watch!


----------



## PTBC

Any rumors of a firmware update, it's been a while it seems


----------



## likepend1

PTBC said:


> Any rumors of a firmware update, it's been a while it seems


if they give the Spartan_v1-Series too many updates, there's no new stuff/features for the future watches (see Garmin)


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> Any rumors of a firmware update, it's been a while it seems


There is an imminent update, I suspect next week.


----------



## Surfer1983

Hello together, 
I have the SSU for about 3 weeks and I have some questions for understanding. 
1. Which setting for altitude is the optimal for sports: running and cycling.
2. Movescount shows me a different altitude as on the SSU. does something have to be set? 
3. I use a Stryd and would like to import the FIT file in Stryd. But the fit file contains dropouts on the metrics of the Stryd. Chest strap works. 
4.Is it planned, to calibrate the foot pod? currently use for intervals, tempo runs, strides, etc. Polar V800. 

Because I have no problems with the Polar, neither dropouts nor any deviations in the export of files in terms of altitude.

Regards, 
Chris


----------



## johan6504

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...GWUf7kvLE7jpMd1NRXIWMaZJSOTLIgqI1J79zjf7HGNvb


----------



## austrian001

johan6504 said:


> https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...GWUf7kvLE7jpMd1NRXIWMaZJSOTLIgqI1J79zjf7HGNvb


as i don't have the cable with me at work i cannot connect my watch to suuntolink.
but from what the community says it's really out there  will not work that long today :-D


----------



## tombell

Update 2.0.34 is out!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jukkaforss

I can't see it yet, can someone share direct link to the upgrade file?


----------



## austrian001

https://pastebin.com/0LVHxMij

Index of /suunto
Amsterdam = Suunto Spartan Ultra
Cairo = Suunto Spartan WHR

Brighton = Suunto Spartan Sport -> http://firmware.geo.movescount.com/production/Brighton-fw_2.0.34.5932-A.zip

Gdansk = Spartan Sport WHR Baro -> http://firmware.geo.movescount.com/production/Gdansk-fw_2.0.34.5936-A.zip


----------



## jhonzatko

Any release notes information?


----------



## austrian001

so far...no. should come today evening or even later.
but there are already a lot of information on facebook and in the web about the new firmware


----------



## jhonzatko

Do you have any link?
I didn't find anything yet ...


----------



## PTBC

jhonzatko said:


> Do you have any link?
> I didn't find anything yet ...


See post #4759 on the previous page


----------



## jhonzatko

Thanks, but i mean a link to any info about changes etc.
Not link to download the fw


----------



## austrian001

for example: 
https://www.deporteporvida.com/2018/05/spartan-firmware-mayo-2018.html

and also on facebook group "Run4IQ: SUUNTO talks, by Andrew Nugged"


----------



## SUPmission

Anybody has issues using their SSU in cold weather / cold water environment? I had a 130km paddleboard race in France last week and battery died in less than 6 hrs use. Apart from that, GPS was having trouble locking in that I just had to roll and press START when the guns went off for race start. I had the sudden battery shut down before when training in winter.. But this time it happened in worse possible time when I needed the Route Navigation to help navigate round the bends. Temperature that morning was 5°C. Suunto asked to message them last week, but I've yet to get a reply from them. 


Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## PTBC

SUPmission said:


> Anybody has issues using their SSU in cold weather / cold water environment? I had a 130km paddleboard race in France last week and battery died in less than 6 hrs use. Apart from that, GPS was having trouble locking in that I just had to roll and press START when the guns went off for race start. I had the sudden battery shut down before when training in winter.. But this time it happened in worse possible time when I needed the Route Navigation to help navigate round the bends. Temperature that morning was 5°C. Suunto asked to message them last week, but I've yet to get a reply from them.
> 
> Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


Not that I've noticed, not that we have extremes here. I did some runs last year at -5c and no problems and haven't had an issue swimming in mountain lakes (not the warmest water even in summer), on the other side of the scale haven't had problems when hiking out to hotsprings and having a relaxing soak before hiking back


----------



## listrahtes

SUPmission said:


> Anybody has issues using their SSU in cold weather / cold water environment? I had a 130km paddleboard race in France last week and battery died in less than 6 hrs use. Apart from that, GPS was having trouble locking in that I just had to roll and press START when the guns went off for race start. I had the sudden battery shut down before when training in winter.. But this time it happened in worse possible time when I needed the Route Navigation to help navigate round the bends. Temperature that morning was 5°C. Suunto asked to message them last week, but I've yet to get a reply from them.
> 
> Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


Never had this problem (with SSU sport wrist HR) even in minus degree circumstances in wet conditions (the battery depletes faster sure) but when I did went along people with a Samsung Gear S3 exactly these things happened several times. One time the Samsung was ruined and could not even be repaired.

With Samsung its a problem in sealing the watch against water (Even the "water resistant" description is a stretch imo). Very wet weather conditions seem to be enough sometimes. Maybe your SSU is faulty and small amounts of water get somehow into the watch.

I would send the watch to Suunto on warranty to let them check it.

Doesnt help you a lot I know sorry ;-)


----------



## SUPmission

listrahtes said:


> Never had this problem (with SSU sport wrist HR) even in minus degree circumstances in wet conditions (the battery depletes faster sure) but when I did went along people with a Samsung Gear S3 exactly these things happened several times... I would send the watch to Suunto on warranty to let them check it.


I got in touch with Suunto support few days back, but they've not been very responsive to my request to have both watches checked. My SSU is 2 years old now and the A3P much longer.. Still. I thought these watches are built to last and not be causing issues on most crucial times..

Now they seem to be working fine again under normal conditions, but who knows if it'll repeat again in the next cold race.

I'm out hunting around checking out what Polar or Garmin is offering.. Let's see if Suunto support can get their act together soon for a 25 year long customer.

Wind it up ⌚now let it roll


----------



## -Laurie-

Just had the update from moveslink - The last watch-face is now corrupted (no sunrise or sunset) and I can't see the temp which is supposed to be selected by press down


----------



## PTBC

-Laurie- said:


> Just had the update from moveslink - The last watch-face is now corrupted (no sunrise or sunset) and I can't see the temp which is supposed to be selected by press down


You have to get a GPS fix for sunset/sunrise and the daylight dial to work, usually going to Navigate>Your Location will do it rather than starting a move.
The temp involve going to the altitude/baro page (3 down presses) then tapping the screen to change from alti to temp display


----------



## -Laurie-

PTBC said:


> You have to get a GPS fix for sunset/sunrise and the daylight dial to work, usually going to Navigate>Your Location will do it rather than starting a move.
> The temp involve going to the altitude/baro page (3 down presses) then tapping the screen to change from alti to temp display


Thanks for that, very helpful


----------



## wolfmandim

Hi guys,
My watch is continuously showing an arrow pointing downwards with four dots underneath the arrow, first steadily, lit second flashing.
Can someone please explain to me what I have to do?
Thanks!


----------



## wolfmandim

Hi guys,
My watch is continuously showing an arrow pointing downwards with four dots underneath the arrow, first steadily, lit second flashing.
Can someone please explain to me what I have to do?
Thanks!


----------



## Philip Onayeti

Updating firmware? Try connecting to Suuntolink if you have removed it during the update?


----------



## wolfmandim

Philip Onayeti said:


> Updating firmware? Try connecting to Suuntolink if you have removed it during the update?


After connecting to Suuntolink I got a corruption data message. The latest update was reinstalled and the watch was reset to factory settings. Looks ok now..


----------



## buenosbias

Hey guys – a question: one remaining feature I am missing from my SSU is northward map orientation in the navigation mode (instead of forward, which I don't like so much). Is it an oversight of mine, or is it still not possible to set the orientation to northward?

Greetings, Tobias


----------



## BobMiles

buenosbias said:


> Hey guys - a question: one remaining feature I am missing from my SSU is northward map orientation in the navigation mode (instead of forward, which I don't like so much). Is it an oversight of mine, or is it still not possible to set the orientation to northward?
> 
> Greetings, Tobias


It's only available in the overview screen (when you tap the nav screen once)...
I am missing this, too, since the North arrow is really small and information is lost.


----------



## buenosbias

BobMiles said:


> It's only available in the overview screen (when you tap the nav screen once)...
> I am missing this, too, since the North arrow is really small and information is lost.


Thanks Bob, that helps!


----------



## starks

EDIT: I updated the Suunto Link to the latest version and the problem is solved. 

Hello guys, I'm having a problem with my Spartan Ultra. Everything was working fine with the watch but since two days ago the touch screen stopped working. I can still do everything with the buttons (it seems) but touch screen just doesn't work at all. I'd appreciate if anyone has any suggestions. Thank you.


----------



## Egika

have you tried re-setting it by pressing and holding the top button for more than 12s?


----------



## Egika

New FW is out:

v2.0.42: http://firmware.geo.movescount.com/production/Amsterdam-fw_2.0.42.6465-A.zip

It is supposed to at least fix the random black screen problem that some had with 2.0.40


----------



## Egika

[OT]
and for the other family members:

for SSS:
http://firmware.geo.movescount.com/production/Brighton-fw_2.0.42.6466-A.zip

for SSSWHR:
http://firmware.geo.movescount.com/production/Cairo-fw_2.0.42.6467-A.zip

for SSSWHRBaro:
http://firmware.geo.movescount.com/production/Gdansk-fw_2.0.42.6469-A.zip

For Trainer:
http://firmware.geo.movescount.com/production/Forssa-fw_2.0.42.2222-B.zip


----------



## Jaka83

Would like to see a release note with the latest FW ... guessing it's just some bug squashing update, but still would be nice if Suunto made it clear what they fixed with the FW.
Why isn't there a prompt in Suuntolink making us aware of the changes prior to updating?

Haven't noticed anything different by just skimming the surface and I'm on my rest day(s). Have to say the watch was working great during yesterday's cycling event.


----------



## Egika

The main bugfix was about the random balck screens that happened due to some write operations with bad timing to a buggy circle buffer class.


----------



## Jaka83

Yes, I got that from previous postings, but I was talking in general, that every FW release should have a release note of some sort.
It's like when you update the BIOS for a motherboard or install a new software update ... it has a release note stating what has been changed/updated/deprecated etc. It would be convenient for users and the programmers have to document it anyway, so why not include it.


----------



## likepend1

hmmm i don' like updates at all 

doesn't matter if the update is just small (like this one) or a big one (new features), it always resets my sport-mode settings (POD search, feelings, battery saving options). Did something like this happen to one of you?


----------



## slashas

likepend1 said:


> hmmm i don' like updates at all
> 
> doesn't matter if the update is just small (like this one) or a big one (new features), it always resets my sport-mode settings (POD search, feelings, battery saving options). Did something like this happen to one of you?


No, after first sync everything is just fine.


----------



## BobMiles

Am I the only one still waiting for the custom graph feature?


----------



## buenosbias

likepend1 said:


> hmmm i don' like updates at all
> 
> doesn't matter if the update is just small (like this one) or a big one (new features), it always resets my sport-mode settings (POD search, feelings, battery saving options). Did something like this happen to one of you?


Yes, at least in the predefined sport modes, after every update the settings are back to off-the-shelf. I don't like it when my watch asks me how I feel!


----------



## Jaka83

BobMiles said:


> Am I the only one still waiting for the custom graph feature?


Nope, I'd like that too. At least I get the altitude graph when I'm navigating, but would like the power graph, HR and other graphs as well. The default screens are quite OK, but mostly I'm using the 7-field displays and navigation. Sometimes I'd like to disable the breadcrumbs display as well.

Suunto is probably saving these "features" for a later time, so they have something big to update when the update cycle comes around.


----------



## Jaka83

Double post, I have no idea what happened. Please delete.


----------



## renton82

I hope they introduce drill log for swim activity!


----------



## slashas

renton82 said:


> I hope they introduce drill log for swim activity!


You wish, they even cannot add strokes per length, total strokes and etc.


----------



## GDONATTI

Nikola, did you find any solution to this problem?
I have the same problem and I also sent my watch 2 times to Suunto USA, but it stays with this blinking down arrow.
It even goes back running for a period, but after a few days it hangs up again or as after the last comeback, hangs during system update.

Thanks!


----------



## GDONATTI

nikola118 said:


> Hi,
> sorry for my intrusion but i have a big problem with this sport watch and this is the only forum where i have found a topic regard this watch.
> 
> Today, while the clock was connected to the PC, it's suddenly turned off! I restarted it and I saw the down arrow symbol of the upgrade in progress... this is very stranger.
> I try to reset (isn't a real reset but an update 1.9.36 to 1.9.36 second suuntoLink) my watch trought Suunto link but near the finish of the reset the clock turns off and does not never turn on!
> 
> I restart my watch but I have the same symbol of down arrow!
> 
> How can fix this problem?!
> It's possible do an hard reset??
> 
> PS: I'm italia, sorry for my bad english


Nikola, did you find any solution to this problem?
I have the same problem and I also sent my watch 2 times to Suunto USA, but it stays with this blinking prey arrow.
It even goes back running for a period, but after a few days it hangs up again or as after the last comeback, hangs during system update.

Thanks!


----------



## GDONATTI

ragandbones said:


> I tried reinstal, system reboot, different ports, even a different notebook with windows rather than iOS. Same error at the same percentage level of update


My friend did you find a way to fix it? I`ve got the same with mine!

Thanks! Donatti


----------



## -Laurie-

see below


----------



## -Laurie-

Has anyone had heart rate spikes for the first few seconds of a run?

When the watch is looking for GPS and HRM my heart rate show normal, but almost immediately after starting, the watch spikes (168). Could be a coincidence, but it only started after the last update.

It's not a major problem, just spoils my heart rate graph.


----------



## divinours

-Laurie- said:


> Has anyone had heart rate spikes for the first few seconds of a run?
> 
> Since the last update when the watch is looking for GPS and HRM, my heart rate show normal, but almost immediately after starting the watch it spikes (168). Could be a coincidence, but it only started after the last update.
> 
> It's not a major problem, just spoils my heart rate graph.


Yep, I'm getting it as well... And if you stop the activity, delete it and start a new one, you won't get a spike but the HR will be unavailable for the first minute or so (despite the HR reading correctly on the "Start" screen). Not much better, but at least it won't mess up your average HR...

I find this very annoying... With this and the GPS accuracy, which has in my opinion been slightly worse since the update, I liked my watch better on the pre-2.0 firmware. Why Suunto is breaking things that used to work is beyond me o|


----------



## martowl

-Laurie- said:


> Has anyone had heart rate spikes for the first few seconds of a run?
> 
> When the watch is looking for GPS and HRM my heart rate show normal, but almost immediately after starting, the watch spikes (168). Could be a coincidence, but it only started after the last update.
> 
> It's not a major problem, just spoils my heart rate graph.


If you are using an SSU this is with the belt, correct? Although you can clean the belt very well, I think the electrodes or connections eventually wear out. This was happening to me and simply replacing the belt completely corrected it. The belt needs to be wet or have electrode get on it before you start. If this is OHR you are in the wrong thread.

I replace my belts every 6-9 months.


----------



## Jaka83

But it is rather strange that the heart rate reading looks OK before starting the exercise and takes a hike once you start the exercise. It has happened to me on random as well and I always wet the belt before putting it on and wear the same types of shirts through FW updates - every other update seems to have this bug for me. Sometimes it's the flat-line at the start of the exercise, other times it's abnormally high readings (in the 200-250 bpm range).

But I'm not too dependent on HR readings so I'm not angry, just a bit annoyed.
I've had the same issue with three different Suunto straps+sensors, the one purchased with the watch and then two more that I've purchased after the issue started occurring as the store rep was certain it's the strap causing the problems. Looks like it's something else in my case and very random. A lot of times I am getting the -- HR reading on my watch during exercise which means the watch is loosing connection to the HR sensor. Before anyone says batteries are nearly dead, I've replaced one battery and measured the other two and all are above 3 V.


----------



## SUPmission

Dumped that Smart HR Sensor. I saved myself many headaches and heartaches with Scosche Rhythm+ which is on my arm. So much more accurate, stable and convenient. No more false heart attacks. 
Graphs and what not.. I hope Suunto developers will still continue to improve the usability of this Ultra investment. With the recent release of the 9... I start to worry again. Ambit 3 is still the best watch yet it seems. Oh well.. 


Wind it up⌚now let it roll


----------



## slashas

I have scosche rhythm+ as well downside of it is only battery life, for ultra won’t make  there is 24h model now released, interesting how that goes.


----------



## Jaka83

Double post.


----------



## Jaka83

Optical HR sensor, no thanks ... I tend to keep away from these ... only 8 hour battery life and it's 80+ € on Amazon ... jeesh, how can you manage with that?


----------



## slashas

Jaka83 said:


> Optical HR sensor, no thanks ... I tend to keep away from these ... only 8 hour battery life and it's 80+ € on Amazon ... jeesh, how can you manage with that?


And never changed strap or battery within 4 years of usage, how many sensors and belts you changed during that time?


----------



## Jaka83

slashas said:


> And never changed strap or battery within 4 years of usage, how many sensors and belts you changed during that time?


To be honest, I've had the original Ambit ANT+ strap for 6 years and it still works today and all of my Suunto Smart BT straps and sensors still work, so I haven't changed any in 6 years, but if you want to be pedantic, I've bought 4 straps so far and all still work. So in all fairness, I got two straps with the watches, the first with the Ambit1 and one with the Spartan Ultra, then I bought two straps for testing (one was for a friend). What is your point again? 

Oh and 8 hours of battery time is a no go for most people, for example most of my hikes are more than 4 hours of active time long with a couple of hours of standby time, so the battery would probably not last me a hiking day. Not to mention skiing, where I can easily go for more than 6 hours of active time. I think I'll skip this suggestion.


----------



## slashas

Because usually I was changing belts every 6-8months, I had issues with electrodes connection and just washing quite often they we’re tearing off quite fast. I have changed 3 sensors cause they were playing funky after some time so go tired of them  I haven’t such issues with polar or Garmin belts like I’ve had with suunto.


----------



## Jaka83

I've heard of these issues, but I take good care of my equipment and never had these problems. I wash the strap after every activity, usually with mild soap, but never leave it in the soapy water, just hand wash it, dry it with a towel and hang it to dry. When storing it or transporting I roll it up in the same way it came from the store so the electrodes don't get bent too much. I must say that the old ANT+ strap is way more durable than the new ones, but as I've said, I've never had problems so far. The only real maintenance needed is the battery change every now and then ... again, the old ANT+ strap's battery lasted me for about a year and a half, the new ones chew through the battery in about half a year - nothing too inconvenient, plenty of CR2025 laying around.


----------



## slashas

Try new BLE sensors and they are not comparable to old ones...


----------



## divinours

The Suunto smart sensor is great IMHO. Small, accurate, waterproof, can function on its own and buffer the data... I've been using mine for 1.5 years (about 2 hours per week) and the battery is still more than half full. Not many other solutions out there on the market can claim to combine all these advantages.

The belt is also holding up quite well (hand-washed with mild soap at the end of every exercice).

The problem isn't with the sensor -- it would be quite a coincidence if it started acting weird on its own right after a firmware update on the SSU, and not only for me but apparently for other people also...


----------



## slashas

divinours said:


> The Suunto smart sensor is great IMHO. Small, accurate, waterproof, can function on its own and buffer the data... I've been using mine for 1.5 years (about 2 hours per week) and the battery is still more than half full. Not many other solutions out there on the market can claim to combine all these advantages.
> 
> The belt is also holding up quite well (hand-washed with mild soap at the end of every exercice).
> 
> The problem isn't with the sensor -- it would be quite a coincidence if it started acting weird on its own right after a firmware update on the SSU, and not only for me but apparently for other people also...


Above do not match with below, I was getting random issues with suunto belts like spikes, connection lost and etc


----------



## divinours

slashas said:


> Above do not match with below, I was getting random issues with suunto belts like spikes, connection lost and etc


The issues I had were with the Ambit3 Run. The SSU seems to have a much stabler connection with the belt (or at least it did before the 2.x firmware).


----------



## gartorin

Hello to all.
I have a Garmin Vivoactive 3 and as it is a disaster, I wanted to change it and I was looking at the suunto spartan ultra which is at a good price now. 
I read on DC rainmaker that had a lot of bugs and that the GPS was very inaccurate. The review was 2 years ago, and since then new firmware has come out. Did they solve the various problems? Is GPS always unreliable or does it now work well? I started reading this forum, but there are too many pages and my English is not very good and it would take me a month to read it all!
Thank you all for your help


----------



## buenosbias

gartorin said:


> Hello to all.
> I have a Garmin Vivoactive 3 and as it is a disaster, I wanted to change it and I was looking at the suunto spartan ultra which is at a good price now.
> I read on DC rainmaker that had a lot of bugs and that the GPS was very inaccurate. The review was 2 years ago, and since then new firmware has come out. Did they solve the various problems? Is GPS always unreliable or does it now work well? I started reading this forum, but there are too many pages and my English is not very good and it would take me a month to read it all!
> Thank you all for your help


It's a very good and reliable watch now, in my experience, and I use it a lot. GPS is fine, if not as accurate as that of the A3P. I particularly like the navigation screens.


----------



## slashas

gartorin said:


> Hello to all.
> I have a Garmin Vivoactive 3 and as it is a disaster, I wanted to change it and I was looking at the suunto spartan ultra which is at a good price now.
> I read on DC rainmaker that had a lot of bugs and that the GPS was very inaccurate. The review was 2 years ago, and since then new firmware has come out. Did they solve the various problems? Is GPS always unreliable or does it now work well? I started reading this forum, but there are too many pages and my English is not very good and it would take me a month to read it all!
> Thank you all for your help


Don't read that stuff, it is fake news as that person indirectly works for Garmin 
SSU GPS is more reliable than Vivoactive 3 or Fenix line I've had all fenixes starting from F2.


----------



## gartorin

Thanks a lot!
reading the review on dcrainmaker I was afraid, even on amazon there were many negative reviews, especially just released, but then over time they seem better...
Also I had the feeling that dcrainmaker wasn't very objective, I read the reviews of the garmin vivoactive hr, vivoactive3 and forerunner 235 and said that the cardio sensor was very reliable, I tried them all and I was deeply disappointed, completely unpacked !
So you confirm that with the suunto spartan ultimate I make a good purchase?

Thanks a lot
Nicola


----------



## gartorin

Thanks a lot!
reading the review on dcrainmaker I was afraid, even on amazon there were many negative reviews, especially just released, but then over time they seem better...
Also I had the feeling that dcrainmaker wasn't very objective, I read the reviews of the garmin vivoactive hr, vivoactive3 and forerunner 235 and said that the cardio sensor was very reliable, I tried them all and I was deeply disappointed, completely unpacked !
So you confirm that with the suunto spartan ultimate I make a good purchase?

Thanks a lot
Nicola


----------



## slashas

If you don’t mind less features pack, but more reliable watch in terms of stats then yes


----------



## Philip Onayeti

gartorin said:


> Hello to all.
> I have a Garmin Vivoactive 3 and as it is a disaster, I wanted to change it and I was looking at the suunto spartan ultra which is at a good price now.
> I read on DC rainmaker that had a lot of bugs and that the GPS was very inaccurate. The review was 2 years ago, and since then new firmware has come out. Did they solve the various problems? Is GPS always unreliable or does it now work well? I started reading this forum, but there are too many pages and my English is not very good and it would take me a month to read it all!
> Thank you all for your help


This forum is mostly populated by avid Suunto fans and as such you tend to get a positive bias here as well. By not reading the whole discussion you do miss out on some objectivity. All GPS watched have limitations and if you purchase Spartan you may well find some in your personal setting. But you are correct in that the feature set on the Spartan has improved since launch and old reviews are not necessarily the best advice for purchasing today.


----------



## Philip Onayeti

double post...forum playing up ;-)


----------



## bruceames

gartorin said:


> Thanks a lot!
> reading the review on dcrainmaker I was afraid, even on amazon there were many negative reviews, especially just released, but then over time they seem better...
> Also I had the feeling that dcrainmaker wasn't very objective, I read the reviews of the garmin vivoactive hr, vivoactive3 and forerunner 235 and said that the cardio sensor was very reliable, I tried them all and I was deeply disappointed, completely unpacked !
> So you confirm that with the suunto spartan ultimate I make a good purchase?
> 
> Thanks a lot
> Nicola


Yes it's been 2 years since that review and the bugs have been ironed out and lots of new features added. The GPS accuracy has been improved significantly and is better than the Garmin watches. For an objective viewpoint, look at Fellrnr's site.

GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


----------



## likepend1

bruceames said:


> Yes it's been 2 years since that review and the bugs have been ironed out and lots of new features added. The GPS accuracy has been improved significantly and is better than the Garmin watches. For an objective viewpoint, look at Fellrnr's site.
> 
> GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches - Fellrnr.com, Running tips


Just want to add WEIGHT & SIZE if you're going/want to wear the watch casually!!
Make sure to take a look / put the watch on your wrist before you buy it.
1) weight: VA3: 43g? vs. SSU 73g!
2) size: VA3: 43x11mm vs 50x17mm


----------



## PTBC

With Garmin rolling out Galileo to the Fenix and other models I wonder if Suunto have similar plans


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> With Garmin rolling out Galileo to the Fenix and other models I wonder if Suunto have similar plans


Don't know but on the Garmin forums the Galileo results are mixed at best.


----------



## bcalvanese

martowl said:


> Don't know but on the Garmin forums the Galileo results are mixed at best.


I have tried the Galileo on both the fenix 5x and the 5x plus and it does not seem to be much better (if any) from using just GPS alone. I returned my fenix 5x plus mainly for that reason.

I was thinking of trying out the Suunto 9 but I am starting to think something is wrong because it has not shown up in any stores yet. I called REI and they informed me that they don't even think they will be getting them in stock.

I do notice that the Ultra's are selling at an extremely low price (45% off) on the Suunto website. I can get the Ultra Copper Special Addition w/HRM for $477.95 right now.

@martowl,

what are your thoughts on the Ultra?

GPS accuracy
instant pace accuracy
battery life (non ultra)
elevation

The thing that bugs me the most about the fenix right now is the instant pace. when running or walking the pace just jumps all over the place and is pretty much useless, and i don''t want to use a foot pod. I did notice with one of the Suunto devices i used the pace seemed much more stable, and close enough to be useful.

I am spoiled by the wrist based heart rate, but i think i could get used to wearing a chest strap again.

thanks in advance.


----------



## bcalvanese

double post.


----------



## martowl

bcalvanese said:


> I have tried the Galileo on both the fenix 5x and the 5x plus and it does not seem to be much better (if any) from using just GPS alone. I returned my fenix 5x plus mainly for that reason.
> 
> I was thinking of trying out the Suunto 9 but I am starting to think something is wrong because it has not shown up in any stores yet. I called REI and they informed me that they don't even think they will be getting them in stock.
> 
> I do notice that the Ultra's are selling at an extremely low price (45% off) on the Suunto website. I can get the Ultra Copper Special Addition w/HRM for $477.95 right now.
> 
> @martowl,
> 
> what are your thoughts on the Ultra?
> 
> GPS accuracy
> instant pace accuracy
> battery life (non ultra)
> elevation
> 
> The thing that bugs me the most about the fenix right now is the instant pace. when running or walking the pace just jumps all over the place and is pretty much useless, and i don''t want to use a foot pod. I did notice with one of the Suunto devices i used the pace seemed much more stable, and close enough to be useful.
> 
> I am spoiled by the wrist based heart rate, but i think i could get used to wearing a chest strap again.
> 
> thanks in advance.


Ultra is a great watch IMHO. I typically sell my 2nd watches and just have one but I will likely keep my ultra for awhile. The battery features and FusedTrack in the Suunto are things I will use a lot!

GPS Accuracy. Very good for me even on Good GPS fix. Fellrnr has the Spartan Ultra rated well for GPS. A lot of buildings or trees may be an issue, I don't have those so I cannot answer that. Equivalent to A3P in my GPS conditions that are not demanding.

Instant pace. Not bad, I ran intervals with this but I normally use the Stryd for pacing when doing intervals. Most of the time I don't even look at pace.

Non ultra battery life. I had an SSWHR for a bit but could only use on Best as the GPS-based altimeter does not work on Good or OK fix. So go with the Baro if you do not get an ultra. On Good fix the Baro should go 20h, up to 10 on Best but I would not push past 8h. That was several firmwares ago so someone with better knowledge would be more helpful. I can get 15-16h without issue on the Ultra on Best with HR

Elevation is good for me, but I still think it can be improved. The filtering for small ups and downs is a little to harsh IMHO.


----------



## bcalvanese

martowl said:


> Ultra is a great watch IMHO. I typically sell my 2nd watches and just have one but I will likely keep my ultra for awhile. The battery features and FusedTrack in the Suunto are things I will use a lot!
> 
> GPS Accuracy. Very good for me even on Good GPS fix. Fellrnr has the Spartan Ultra rated well for GPS. A lot of buildings or trees may be an issue, I don't have those so I cannot answer that. Equivalent to A3P in my GPS conditions that are not demanding.
> 
> Instant pace. Not bad, I ran intervals with this but I normally use the Stryd for pacing when doing intervals. Most of the time I don't even look at pace.
> 
> Non ultra battery life. I had an SSWHR for a bit but could only use on Best as the GPS-based altimeter does not work on Good or OK fix. So go with the Baro if you do not get an ultra. On Good fix the Baro should go 20h, up to 10 on Best but I would not push past 8h. That was several firmwares ago so someone with better knowledge would be more helpful. I can get 15-16h without issue on the Ultra on Best with HR
> 
> Elevation is good for me, but I still think it can be improved. The filtering for small ups and downs is a little to harsh IMHO.


Sorry. by non ultra i meant non ultra running (not non ultra watch), because i know the main reason you got the 9 was to get more battery on your ultra runs.

how is the SSU battery for your training runs etc...?

also... on your moves in MC, what GPS mode are you using?

thanks,


----------



## martowl

bcalvanese said:


> Sorry. by non ultra i meant non ultra running (not non ultra watch), because i know the main reason you got the 9 was to get more battery on your ultra runs.
> 
> how is the SSU battery for your training runs etc...?
> 
> also... on your moves in MC, what GPS mode are you using?
> 
> thanks,


I don't track battery life much as I run enough that I need to charge before and during weekends so I typically charge at least once per week. I have a charger in my car and I often remove the watch and charge while driving. I have a 40 min commute one way to work.

Unless I am going more than 12h all runs/skiing are on Best


----------



## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> I have tried the Galileo on both the fenix 5x and the 5x plus and it does not seem to be much better (if any) from using just GPS alone. I returned my fenix 5x plus mainly for that reason


@bcalvanese, I have both a Fenix 5x with the beta software, and a Spartan Sport WHR Baro. The Baro shows excellent tracks and is generally spot on, even walking, which is a tough go for most of the wrist devices. I have to say that after a couple of walks with both the SSWHRBaro, and the F5x with Galileo, the F5xGalileo is right in line with my Spartan SSWHR Baro. It might be the number of sats visible, or any of a plethora of things, but it is not that much different either walking, or riding my bike. I did notice that when going under a bridge on my bike, both watches seem to "skew" when exiting the bridge, but the F5x seems to have a tad less. I've only been testing for about a week, but so far, Garmin has done well with the Galileo, at least in my case.
Now, as for the SSWHRBaro, I love it. The onboard OHR is absolutely spot on for me. Actually, I started a bike ride with a PowerCal chest strap that has done well by me in the past, but on the last ride, it crapped out about 1/4 mile in. After uttering the required expletives, I stopped that activity, and started again with the SSWHRBaro and the internal OHR. I usually wear the watch with 3 visible "holes" between the edge of the buckle, and the end of the watch; in this case, I tightened it up one more notch, and the HR appears to be spot on, judging from other rides along the same route. I have seen tracks of the S9 that were good, and others that looked like an "Old" F5x with the hiccups. I believe if I were to bite for an S9, I would wait for a few iterations of the firmware, but honestly, the SSWHRBaro is the best (for me) Suunto I have owned, and I've owned several, A3P, SSU, SSS, SSWHR, and finally the SSWHRBaro. I suppose the only way to really tell would be for you to go ahead and install the beta software, and go for a couple runs/walks/whatevers, and see what it does for you. Just my 2c


----------



## gartorin

Thanks to all, I ordered a Titanium all black for 375 €, 50% discount. Is it out of production?


----------



## slashas

gartorin said:


> Thanks to all, I ordered a Titanium all black for 375 €, 50% discount. Is it out of production?


Seem so, SSU is available already for two years and S9 is out.


----------



## Egika

slashas said:


> Seem so, SSU is available already for two years and S9 is out.


No, it is still in full production.


----------



## gartorin

Thanks. I have another question: wich is the android corrected app for SSU? I saw 2 apps in play store... Suunto and moveschount...


----------



## BobMiles

I just wanted to say that today I had two crashes in a row on the latest firmware. Both the usual way, blank screen and watch reboot, no GPS for the first minutes after the boot. They happened about 20 minutes apart.

Forget about the SSU, even if it's going well for some time, it will stab you in the back.
I do like most of it, but the lack of reliability just kills it all.
We'll see what problems the 9 will suffer. Maybe it's the hardware fix of the SSU.


----------



## sb029111

BobMiles said:


> I just wanted to say that today I had two crashes in a row on the latest firmware. Both the usual way, blank screen and watch reboot, no GPS for the first minutes after the boot. They happened about 20 minutes apart.Forget about the SSU, even if it's going well for some time, it will stab you in the back.I do like most of it, but the lack of reliability just kills it all.We'll see what problems the 9 will suffer. Maybe it's the hardware fix of the SSU.


What firmware are you on? The Spartan line just had two quick updates, the first was a "regular" update, (2.0.34?), and then like within a week, there was another, (2.0.42), the latter was to fix the problem that you're having, blank screen, down arrow, and some time later it corrects itself.First, quick thoughts on your problem, other than that.. ???


----------



## BobMiles

sb029111 said:


> What firmware are you on? The Spartan line just had two quick updates, the first was a "regular" update, (2.0.34?), and then like within a week, there was another, (2.0.42), the latter was to fix the problem that you're having, blank screen, down arrow, and some time later it corrects itself.First, quick thoughts on your problem, other than that.. ???


Hi! I'm on 2.0.42, but the crashes have been there since I first got the watch. It's one of the first SSUs out there, I don't know if there's a ne revision with fixed hardware...


----------



## MichalW

Dear All, I'm new to the comunity but have a serious problem with my SUUNTO Spartan Ultra (Software 2.0.42) When I'm using it for runing it's all OK, but as soon us I change the sport (freewater swiming, StanUp Padel, Trail Running) my GPS is not properly. Maybe it's coincident, but this is what I observing in the last weeks.
GPS is turning on and off and do not provide correct data. It happended already few timeas and I have no idea what is the problem. I asked already Suunto for a help, but they coudn't find a solution thill now. Any Ideas? 
I would really apreciate your help, Thanks!


----------



## martowl

MichalW said:


> Dear All, I'm new to the comunity but have a serious problem with my SUUNTO Spartan Ultra (Software 2.0.42) When I'm using it for runing it's all OK, but as soon us I change the sport (freewater swiming, StanUp Padel, Trail Running) my GPS is not properly. Maybe it's coincident, but this is what I observing in the last weeks.
> GPS is turning on and off and do not provide correct data. It happended already few timeas and I have no idea what is the problem. I asked already Suunto for a help, but they coudn't find a solution thill now. Any Ideas?
> I would really apreciate your help, Thanks!


Reboot the watch and if that does not solve it reinstall the firmware. If that does not work open a support ticket. I am not having these problems.


----------



## martowl

BobMiles said:


> I just wanted to say that today I had two crashes in a row on the latest firmware. Both the usual way, blank screen and watch reboot, no GPS for the first minutes after the boot. They happened about 20 minutes apart.
> 
> Forget about the SSU, even if it's going well for some time, it will stab you in the back.
> I do like most of it, but the lack of reliability just kills it all.
> We'll see what problems the 9 will suffer. Maybe it's the hardware fix of the SSU.


Bob, I do not think there were firmware changes, my SSU is fairly old too and I am not having any reliability problems. A serious issue is the MC app AND the Suunto app on the smartphone at the same time. That will cause my watch to freeze and restart. Try reinstalling the firmware and if that does not work open a support ticket. The SSU should be reliable.


----------



## martowl

gartorin said:


> Thanks. I have another question: wich is the android corrected app for SSU? I saw 2 apps in play store... Suunto and moveschount...


The Suunto app is in beta for the SSU and does not transfer to Movescount. Do not have both on the phone, it will cause issues with the watch.


----------



## slashas

martowl said:


> The Suunto app is in beta for the SSU and does not transfer to Movescount. Do not have both on the phone, it will cause issues with the watch.


To be correct suunto app is live for spartan line, but still do not send data to MC or able to customize watch.


----------



## BobMiles

martowl said:


> Bob, I do not think there were firmware changes, my SSU is fairly old too and I am not having any reliability problems. A serious issue is the MC app AND the Suunto app on the smartphone at the same time. That will cause my watch to freeze and restart. Try reinstalling the firmware and if that does not work open a support ticket. The SSU should be reliable.


That's a good hint! I indeed have both installed in parallel. I'll do away with the old app and reset my watch once more, when I get reply from suunto.

Thank you a lot!


----------



## likepend1

slashas said:


> To be correct suunto app is live for spartan line, but still do not send data to MC or able to customize watch.


To be honest, i don't think that will ever be possible (to sync to MC). The Suunto app is basically the Sports-Tracker-app (& uses their services).

(i think that) Suunto will sooner or later switch to a new website (&abandon MC over the next 2-3 years (have to keep it running because they still sell Ambit/Traverse watches), like Polar did with PersonalTrainer & Flow). This is why they acquired Sports-Tracker. Also because of the Suunto 3 (pushing into the fitness territory).


----------



## slashas

likepend1 said:


> To be honest, i don't think that will ever be possible (to sync to MC). The Suunto app is basically the Sports-Tracker-app (& uses their services).
> 
> (i think that) Suunto will sooner or later switch to a new website (&abandon MC over the next 2-3 years (have to keep it running because they still sell Ambit/Traverse watches), like Polar did with PersonalTrainer & Flow). This is why they acquired Sports-Tracker. Also because of the Suunto 3 (pushing into the fitness territory).


My point wasn't about sportstracker or decommissioning of MC  my point was here about that suunto app is officially out of the beta even with limited functionality.


----------



## gartorin

For what I could see (I still have to get the clock), the CM app is quite poor and limited compared to those of garmin and polar


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> The Suunto app is in beta for the SSU and does not transfer to Movescount. Do not have both on the phone, it will cause issues with the watch.


I've found that as long as I make sure to properly close them and only have one active at a time it's ok, but then I'm recovering from a broken my ankle so haven't been using it much in the last few weeks, though tracking the changes in my daily trends has been interesting.


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> The Suunto app is in beta for the SSU and does not transfer to Movescount. Do not have both on the phone, it will cause issues with the watch.


I've found that as long as I make sure to properly close them and only have one active at a time it's ok, but then I'm recovering from a broke ankle so haven't been using it much in the last few weeks, though tracking the changes in my daily trends has been interesting


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> I've found that as long as I make sure to properly close them and only have one active at a time it's ok, but then I'm recovering from a broke ankle so haven't been using it much in the last few weeks, though tracking the changes in my daily trends has been interesting


It was working for me as well but with newer iOS on the iPhone, it seems that the BT connection is either maintained better or has a memory of what was connected. Even if I wait a few minutes after force closing the Suunto app, and open MC, the watch initially shows as a serial number. Often the watch will reboot then sync. I often have to force quit MC again to get it to work. Sometimes I will get a watch freeze or reboot. I don't mind syncing with the cable for MC. Having only the Suunto app on the phone works very well...syncs in the background and no other issues.

One other very important one....you can have routes on the watch only from one source! Either Suunto app or MC but not both. Having both will put the watch in "unsafe mode" for MC and it will not sync to MC at all. To fix this you have to remove all routes from the app and watch, reinstall the firmware and make sure to have only routes from one source. The elevation profile does not transfer from the Suunto app so I still have all routes on MC. A pity as routes on the app are easy to transfer even while offline if you made them while online. No waypoints yet either for routes on Suunto app but it is in beta still.

Just my experience.


----------



## slashas

In new iOS version there is something like BT connection hibernation.

So If you want to use on iOS suunto app and MC in parallel and you want to sync to MC, before doing so you need first to sync with suunto app this will invoke hibernated BT connection which then can be killed by force close of suunto app and after you can start MC this will avoid undetectable watch and watch reboot issue and will sync with MC.


----------



## martowl

slashas said:


> In new iOS version there is something like BT connection hibernation.
> 
> So If you want to use on iOS suunto app and MC in parallel and you want to sync to MC, before doing so you need first to sync with suunto app this will invoke hibernated BT connection which then can be killed by force close of suunto app and after you can start MC this will avoid undetectable watch and watch reboot issue and will sync with MC.


As I said, this is not working for me even with force close and waiting.


----------



## slashas

martowl said:


> As I said, this is not working for me even with force close and waiting.


Have you read my tutorial?  no need to wait, just need to sync with suunto app before force closing and after you can sync with MC without waiting


----------



## gousias

What are the differences among Movescount iOS app and (new) SUUNTO iOS app?


----------



## martowl

slashas said:


> Have you read my tutorial?  no need to wait, just need to sync with suunto app before force closing and after you can sync with MC without waiting


Yes I have @slashas and unfortunately I get many reboots of the watch if I have both apps running, have tested this several times. We may have different iOS versions on our phones, I have an iPhone X. I was using both apps for a long time but not longer. If I force close the Suunto app the MC app often does not sync, displays my watch as a serial number, I then force quit and restart the MC app, sometimes it works and other times it causes a watch restart. I don't need the hassles and don't mind using the cable. Other folks were having similar issues as well. If both apps are working for you great but they may not work for everyone.


----------



## slashas

We have the same iOS version  have you tried my method? Make sure as well that MC is turned off for background refresh.
For me cable is used only for watch FW upgrade as I don't have my own pc using wife's for this


----------



## Jaka83

I get watch reboots when trying to sync the watch after a move with both apps installed as well - but I am on Android 8.1. This started happening after the last Suunto app update and first I thought it was the watch, but it looks like its the Suunto app messing up something. Doing the force-close dance on the phone used to work fine without watch reboots, but now it looks like something is broken and it causes the watch to reboot.
The watch works fine during moves tho, it's just the syncing that's half broken. I'll uninstall the Suunto app for the time being as syncing to MC on the go is more important to me and I can always fire up the desktop website on my phone and check MC there without using the mobile app and use the app just for syncing and providing phone notifications to the watch as it's almost useless for anything else.
Is it so hard for Suunto to hire a team of experts and make these mobile apps work like they should?!


----------



## 321bigbang

Hi.
I've just received my spartan ultra white HR.
I own an ambit3 peak too. Only 153 moves.

I'm leaving near Paris.

My wtach is upgraded with the new firmware.

See you.


----------



## 321bigbang

Hi.
I've just received my spartan ultra white HR.
I own an ambit3 peak too. Only 153 moves.

I'm leaving near Paris.

My wtach is upgraded with the new firmware.

See you.


----------



## slashas

321bigbang said:


> Hi.
> I've just received my spartan ultra white HR.
> I own an ambit3 peak too. Only 153 moves.
> 
> I'm leaving near Paris.
> 
> My wtach is upgraded with the new firmware.
> 
> See you.


Hello, good to hear that you have new SSU, now you ready for next 153 moves


----------



## 321bigbang

I've 2 questions...

- Is it possible to invert the contrast of the watch, as it's now possible in exercices ?

- Is it possible to lock all the buttons, not in exercice ? I found "do not distrub" mode that lock the watch, but then the display is basic.


----------



## slashas

1. Go to exercise settings in the watch and use theme.
2. No lock in watch state, I would like to have it as well.


----------



## Egika

1. Not possible in the watch face.


----------



## slashas

My mistake, thought about exercise Mode


----------



## Lakerveldt

Hi, have a look at this move: Lakerveldt's 1:59 h Running Move. This is Swim-Run where we're running a bit and then swimming a bit and the running and so on.

I was using the SSU in combination with a wahoo tickr. During the complete exercise, my SSU showed -- as heart rate. Afterwards, it seems that the watch recorded HR which corresponds with my perceived HR. The strange thing is that it also recorded HR during some of the swims. I've seen that behaviour before during swimming with the tickr. So, how is it possible that the SSU shows -- during the complete exercise, and that a BLE sensor without memory (tickr) generates a signal that works in water?


----------



## 321bigbang

@Lakerveldt
I don't have the answer to your question... but the Move you show us is amazing !
I want to try this 10km !!!
What is the water température ?


----------



## 321bigbang

I have a two new questions...

1°) In exercice, between the dark and the white background display, is there any difference for the battery life ?
I suppose the white display consumes less battery but maybe not.

2°) with the dark background, when the watch in full sun, it's hotter. Is it a problem ?
I choose the white theme to have a cooler watch. It's maybe stupid...

Thanks !


----------



## -Laurie-

slashas said:


> Above do not match with below, I was getting random issues with suunto belts like spikes, connection lost and etc ]


Did we come to a conclusion as to why this is happening? I'm still getting these spikes as soon as I press start, I even followed an excellent article on cleaning the strap, but still the same spikes. http://www.natharward.com/heart-rate-monitor-not-working/


----------



## slashas

-Laurie- said:


> Did we come to a conclusion as to why this is happening? I'm still getting these spikes as soon as I press start, I even followed an excellent article on cleaning the strap, but still the same spikes. http://www.natharward.com/heart-rate-monitor-not-working/


I have just gave up and bought Scosche Rhythm+, downside is battery life and no internal storage to upload data after workout.


----------



## -Laurie-

Mmmm.... how do you read the data on the Scoshe Rhythm then?


----------



## divinours

-Laurie- said:


> Did we come to a conclusion as to why this is happening? I'm still getting these spikes as soon as I press start, I even followed an excellent article on cleaning the strap, but still the same spikes. Heart Rate Monitor Not Working? That's Because It's Dirty


It is a bug, Suunto has acknowledged it (see the 'Inaccurate HR' thread). They're supposed to be working on a fix. Probably the fix will f*ck up something else though


----------



## -Laurie-

Thanks for that piece of info. Was just looking at other option online. Will wait for fix. Thanks!!!


----------



## sb029111

-Laurie- said:


> Mmmm.... how do you read the data on the Scoshe Rhythm then?


You pair it with your watch as an external heart rate monitor, and in Movescount, under the specifics of your activity you check the box that says to search for external heart rate monitors. The watch will then search for, and find the Rhythm+, and that data will be used.


----------



## bruceames

I get great results with the Scoshe Rhythm, as I'm using it paired to the SSU while my Polar H10 is paired to the S9. They are almost always within a few beats and the average HR is usually the same. The main difference is regarding responsiveness to large changes in HR, as the chest strap responds much quicker.


----------



## natharward

Author of the "HRM Not working" article here (and I'm a contractor for Suunto) ... ALL heart rate monitors, even optical, take some time when getting started to calibrate themselves. I'm not versed on the technical realities of this (how is it programmed? how long does it take? what's happening?), but this is what I've been told. The sensors & processors have to work out noise in what's getting picked up. It's therefore best to enter the "pre-start" screen as part of your "getting ready" phase before starting the workout or formally entering a warmup stage that you are tracking. When I used a chest strap, I would put it on, drive to my indoor cycling studio, and then turn everything on. Never had connection or accuracy issues when I did that. So, think about putting HRM on first and snapping in the sensor even before your shoes. Fwiw, if you are wearing a chest strap under a shirt of synthetic materials, it may take more time or you may see more variance throughout the workout because, so I've heard, synthetics create some static electricity.

Have seen people in these forums and elsewhere having success with the Scoshe Rhythm and Polar H10, so those are good options as well. But same deal ... if you give them some time before beginning to track, you'll get better results.

Happy trails!


----------



## slashas

Scosche readings are almost instant for me matter of 1-2min


----------



## gartorin

I have the polar oh1, can you tell me if it works with Spartan ultra? My wife wants to buy a chest strap, what do you suggest me for using with spartan? Polar h10 or Suunto chest strap?


----------



## Lakerveldt

321bigbang said:


> @Lakerveldt
> I don't have the answer to your question... but the Move you show us is amazing !
> I want to try this 10km !!!
> What is the water température ?


 The water temp is between 21 and 24 deg C. In case you're in the Tønsberg, Norway area, get in contact for a guided tour. There's only one family in Norway with Lakerveld as last name.


----------



## martowl

321bigbang said:


> I have a two new questions...
> 
> 1°) In exercice, between the dark and the white background display, is there any difference for the battery life ?
> I suppose the white display consumes less battery but maybe not.
> 
> 2°) with the dark background, when the watch in full sun, it's hotter. Is it a problem ?
> I choose the white theme to have a cooler watch. It's maybe stupid...
> 
> Thanks !


I don't think there is any difference with battery, there was not with the Ambit.


----------



## 321bigbang

Thanks @martowl
With the Ambit 3, wich mode is the best for the battery life ?
Normal or dark background ?

This morning, I looked at the atmospheric pressure on my SSU and there was no graphic for the last hours.
The curve was just starting, as if I've just bought the watch, at the beginning.
The altitude was however correctly recorded and displayed.
Never see this wit Ambit 3...


----------



## continiven

Does anyone know if there are any plans to integrate Strava Live Segments with Suunto Spartan series? 
Garmin and Polar have it on board so I would expect that Suunto could also make a step towards Folks who love sport competition!


----------



## sid700

Hy guys,
I need some help!?!
I have Ambit2(works perfect), my girlfriend just bought Spartan Ultra and the watch is calculating wrong ascent data?
Today we went for a ride... I got 950vm ascent, she got around 1500vm ascent....She has fusedAlti and altimeter enabled...
Last time she went for a ride alone....The ascent should be around 800vm..The watch recordet 6000vm of ascent...

My move:
_sid_'s 3:06 h Mountain biking Move

Hers:
blanche_k's 3:04 h Mountain biking Move
blanche_k's 1:36 h Mountain biking Move (6000vm ascent)

Can someone say wtf is going on? Im just about to return the watch because of that....but maybe is something wrong in the settings...I dont know...My Ambit2 works perfect and I have also only altimeter and fusedalti enabled..


----------



## BobMiles

sid700 said:


> Hy guys,
> I need some help!?!
> I have Ambit2(works perfect), my girlfriend just bought Spartan Ultra and the watch is calculating wrong ascent data?
> Today we went for a ride... I got 950vm ascent, she got around 1500vm ascent....She has fusedAlti and barometer enabled...
> Last time she went for a ride alone....The ascent should be around 800vm..The watch recordet 6000vm of ascent...
> 
> My move:
> _sid_'s 3:06 h Mountain biking Move
> 
> Hers:
> blanche_k's 3:04 h Mountain biking Move
> blanche_k's 1:36 h Mountain biking Move (6000vm ascent)
> 
> Can someone say wtf is going on? Im just about to return the watch because of that....but maybe is something wrong in the settings...I dont know...My Ambit2 works perfect and I have also only barometer and fusedalti enabled..


Seems like it's switching between baro and GPS... Did you let it get the reference altitude from GPS? Did you update your firmware? I had altitude issues on an old firmware...


----------



## sid700

**edit** we both have Altimetr enabled not barometer...**

The watch is fully updated and the reference is set where I live...it should be ok...
The point is that some moves are OK, but some are not....The last few moves the ascent is way off....


----------



## BobMiles

sid700 said:


> **edit** we both have Altimetr enabled not barometer...**
> 
> The watch is fully updated and the reference is set where I live...it should be ok...
> The point is that some moves are OK, but some are not....The last few moves the ascent is way off....


Do you use custom sport modes?


----------



## martowl

sid700 said:


> **edit** we both have Altimetr enabled not barometer...**
> 
> The watch is fully updated and the reference is set where I live...it should be ok...
> The point is that some moves are OK, but some are not....The last few moves the ascent is way off....


This is NOT the behavior that I see and you should not be seeing this. Double check to make sure your moves are Altimeter and not either Automatic or Baro. Do not set a reference altitude for the SSU, FusedAlti will engage when you start a move even though it may not be at the initial correct altitude before you start. If you manually set the alititude for some reason it will alter the FusedAlti. If none of those work I would open a support ticket with Suunto. The vertical on my SSU has been quite good, not perfect but good.


----------



## martowl

sid700 said:


> **edit** we both have Altimetr enabled not barometer...**
> 
> The watch is fully updated and the reference is set where I live...it should be ok...
> The point is that some moves are OK, but some are not....The last few moves the ascent is way off....


Just looked at the move, notice all of the altitude fluctuations? If those are not real, which I suspect they are not, they are adding up to give you the altitude differences. The smoothing for altitude changes are different in the Ambit and Spartan but those do not look ok. Either Baro or auto mode is enabled (might be the default) or there is something wrong with the watch.


----------



## continiven

As there was no answer, I will repeat myself with question about Strava live segment support:


Does anyone know if there are any plans to integrate Strava Live Segments with Suunto Spartan series? Garmin and Polar have it on board so I would expect that Suunto could also make a step towards Folks who love sport competition!


----------



## Egika

continiven said:


> As there was no answer, I will repeat myself with question about Strava live segment support:
> 
> Does anyone know if there are any plans to integrate Strava Live Segments with Suunto Spartan series? Garmin and Polar have it on board so I would expect that Suunto could also make a step towards Folks who love sport competition!


Nobody here knows the Suunto roadmap.
And if someone did, he would be under NDA


----------



## slashas

continiven said:


> As there was no answer, I will repeat myself with question about Strava live segment support:
> 
> Does anyone know if there are any plans to integrate Strava Live Segments with Suunto Spartan series? Garmin and Polar have it on board so I would expect that Suunto could also make a step towards Folks who love sport competition!


Sooner or later it will come


----------



## Pegasus

I’m selling my Suunto Spartan Ultra if anyone is interested. Message me, I’m in the UK.

Not able to exercise due to illness currently.

(Please delete if not appropriate to post this here)


----------



## PTBC

slashas said:


> Originally Posted by continiven View Post
> As there was no answer, I will repeat myself with question about Strava live segment support:
> 
> Does anyone know if there are any plans to integrate Strava Live Segments with Suunto Spartan series? Garmin and Polar have it on board so I would expect that Suunto could also make a step towards Folks who love sport competition!
> 
> Sooner or later it will come


I'd think later rather than sooner, given the move to sports-tracker it seems Suunto have a lot on their plate regarding webservices, but then as said their roadmap isn't transparent so who knows


----------



## gpetrov

Hello, 
i recently bought Suunto Spartan Ultra and i was not able to configure HR Zones alarms.
What i mean is that if i set mu run to HR Zone 4, the watch beeps constantly to 'speed up' if i am not in the zone, but once i got into it it stops notifying me neither if i go over the high zone mark nor if i get back under it.
it is very disappointing if Suunto does not have that feature as we are monitoring our Heart Rate during exercise. it is not very pleasant to take a look every two-three seconds at the watch while i am running.
is there anything that i am missing on setting Alarms for HR Zones?
Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## martowl

gpetrov said:


> Hello,
> i recently bought Suunto Spartan Ultra and i was not able to configure HR Zones alarms.
> What i mean is that if i set mu run to HR Zone 4, the watch beeps constantly to 'speed up' if i am not in the zone, but once i got into it it stops notifying me neither if i go over the high zone mark nor if i get back under it.
> it is very disappointing if Suunto does not have that feature as we are monitoring our Heart Rate during exercise. it is not very pleasant to take a look every two-three seconds at the watch while i am running.
> is there anything that i am missing on setting Alarms for HR Zones?
> Any advice is appreciated.


It will notify you if you go over the specified zone but needs 15 or 30s over before the notification is sent and will notify when back in the zone. If you are in the specified zone there are no notifications sent as you are in the correct zone. It works and I don't see a problem. Make sure you have the zones set up on the watch.


----------



## kralik_j

martowl said:


> gpetrov said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> i recently bought Suunto Spartan Ultra and i was not able to configure HR Zones alarms.
> What i mean is that if i set mu run to HR Zone 4, the watch beeps constantly to 'speed up' if i am not in the zone, but once i got into it it stops notifying me neither if i go over the high zone mark nor if i get back under it.
> it is very disappointing if Suunto does not have that feature as we are monitoring our Heart Rate during exercise. it is not very pleasant to take a look every two-three seconds at the watch while i am running.
> is there anything that i am missing on setting Alarms for HR Zones?
> Any advice is appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> It will notify you if you go over the specified zone but needs 15 or 30s over before the notification is sent and will notify when back in the zone. If you are in the specified zone there are no notifications sent as you are in the correct zone. It works and I don't see a problem. Make sure you have the zones set up on the watch.
Click to expand...

Pls let me know where find acoustic hr notification in spartan ultra. I can't it find in watch option


----------



## slashas

kralik_j said:


> Pls let me know where find acoustic hr notification in spartan ultra. I can't it find in watch option


You need to turn on sound feedback in watch itself and it will be used for notifications as well which is not the convenient approach from suunto.


----------



## cageracer

Well, with the release of the new Suunto 9 I guess there'll be no more substantive updates for the SSU. 

Shame. I still can't understand why there's no ***ing sync button - in the app or the watch.


----------



## margusl

cageracer said:


> I still can't understand why there's no ***ing sync button - in the app or the watch.


Do you mean Suunto app or Movescount app? Movescount app, at least the Android version, has a sync button - just press the watch image.


----------



## cageracer

Yeah but if the watch is already 'connected' you can't force a sync - it just syncs on it's own mysterious schedule. Usually it's pretty quick but sometimes it takes ages or doesn't sync at all despite being connected. This happens to me a lot. Would be nice if the watch had a force sync button as well.


----------



## bruceames

I just cycle the phone off/on to force a sync in those situations. Easier than taking the watch out of range and bringing it closer again.


----------



## slashas

bruceames said:


> I just cycle the phone off/on to force a sync in those situations. Easier than taking the watch out of range and bringing it closer again.


More convenient way would be just to kill app and restart it  or turn off on Bluetooth.


----------



## margusl

cageracer said:


> Yeah but if the watch is already 'connected' you can't force a sync - it just syncs on it's own mysterious schedule. Usually it's pretty quick but sometimes it takes ages or doesn't sync at all despite being connected. This happens to me a lot. Would be nice if the watch had a force sync button as well.


 Interesting - you see, for Ambits it actually works exactly like this, only the sync button is kind of .. disguised 
( watch can be in connected state, but a tap on a green check mark at any time will trigger instant sync )


----------



## martowl

cageracer said:


> Well, with the release of the new Suunto 9 I guess there'll be no more substantive updates for the SSU.
> 
> Shame. I still can't understand why there's no ***ing sync button - in the app or the watch.


The firmware is virtually identical between the two watches. There will be updates for the SSU. Seems like it may get the battery settings the S9 has.


----------



## cageracer

slashas said:


> More convenient way would be just to kill app and restart it  or turn off on Bluetooth.


I've tried both of those things, doesn't help. Re-starting the phone seems to though.


----------



## cageracer

slashas said:


> More convenient way would be just to kill app and restart it  or turn off on Bluetooth.


I've tried both of those things, doesn't help. Re-starting the phone seems to though.


----------



## slashas

cageracer said:


> I've tried both of those things, doesn't help. Re-starting the phone seems to though.


Android or iOS?


----------



## bruceames

Is Fusedalti disable on GOOD mode on the SSU? I tried it for the first time today and the altitude was 150 feet lower than normal when I got to the top of a 1360 foot hill. That only used to happen with the T6 or other non-GPS watch.


----------



## slashas

bruceames said:


> Is Fusedalti disable on GOOD mode on the SSU? I tried it for the first time today and the altitude was 150 feet lower than normal when I got to the top of a 1360 foot hill. That only used to happen with the T6 or other non-GPS watch.


Fusedalti works in conjunction with GPS so worst GPS signal can interrupt readings. What you have set in sport profile Auto/Baro/Altimeter?


----------



## bruceames

slashas said:


> Fusedalti works in conjunction with GPS so worst GPS signal can interrupt readings. What you have set in sport profile Auto/Baro/Altimeter?


I always have it set to auto. But it shouldn't matter whether it's auto or altimeter. Anyway I'm sure Fusedalti wasn't working because all my Ambits and the SSU always read nearly spot on the altitude at the top of a peak. First time it didn't, which is typical for a baro-only reading without GPS calibration. And it's also the first time I've tried any GPS setting other than BEST.


----------



## slashas

bruceames said:


> I always have it set to auto. But it shouldn't matter whether it's auto or altimeter. Anyway I'm sure Fusedalti wasn't working because all my Ambits and the SSU always read nearly spot on the altitude at the top of a peak. First time it didn't, which is typical for a baro-only reading without GPS calibration. And it's also the first time I've tried any GPS setting other than BEST.


It matters, for activities which are hilly I use altimeter, for activities for example like walking which is in my area low altitude I use barometer 
If auto it will switch between alti/baro which impacts accuracy.


----------



## bruceames

slashas said:


> It matters, for activities which are hilly I use altimeter, for activities for example like walking which is in my area low altitude I use barometer
> If auto it will switch between alti/baro which impacts accuracy.


Auto never affected accuracy in my experience. Altitude always spot on, which is only possible with Fusedalti. Obviously the Good GPS mode disables Fusedalti so that only Baro is working. Was hoping for Good things with Good mode but that is not going to work. Gotta have altitude accuracy as I'm accustomed to.


----------



## bruceames

dup post


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> Is Fusedalti disable on GOOD mode on the SSU? I tried it for the first time today and the altitude was 150 feet lower than normal when I got to the top of a 1360 foot hill. That only used to happen with the T6 or other non-GPS watch.


I did not think so, my altitude accumulation in races with GOOD on the SSU have been spot on except with the most recent 2.0 firmware. I used SSU for San Juan Solstice last year and this year. The altitude was off by the reported accumulation this year but dead on last year.


----------



## martowl

bruceames said:


> I always have it set to auto. But it shouldn't matter whether it's auto or altimeter. Anyway I'm sure Fusedalti wasn't working because all my Ambits and the SSU always read nearly spot on the altitude at the top of a peak. First time it didn't, which is typical for a baro-only reading without GPS calibration. And it's also the first time I've tried any GPS setting other than BEST.


I am always on Alti unless hiking. Works well for me.


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> I am always on Alti unless hiking. Works well for me.


Maybe Fusedalti only works in GOOD mode with ALTI mode? Auto + BEST GPS mode has always been able to figure if the move needs to be based on altitude. Maybe the GPS cycling off/on every second confuses it. I'll try Alti mode next time.


----------



## slashas

martowl said:


> I am always on Alti unless hiking. Works well for me.


But you doing vice versa what suunto suggests 

Quote from manual

The altimeter profile should be selected when your activity involves changes in altitude (such as hiking in the mountains).

The barometer profile should be selected when your activity does not involve changes in altitude (such as running on a track).


----------



## efea

Hey there,

Yesterday my spartan ultra couldn't find a gps signal in the running mode. I last used two days ago without any problems. I synced with MC as my phone was with me, but the result didn't change. It tried to start a session with other sport modes using gps like cycling or outdoor swimming nothing changed. So I just left it searching gps mode on my wrist and ran for an hour. :-s The gps arrow just does not turn to green. 
Does anyone has any ideas?

Thanks


----------



## Philip Onayeti

efea said:


> Hey there,
> 
> Yesterday my spartan ultra couldn't find a gps signal in the running mode. I last used two days ago without any problems. I synced with MC as my phone was with me, but the result didn't change. It tried to start a session with other sport modes using gps like cycling or outdoor swimming nothing changed. So I just left it searching gps mode on my wrist and ran for an hour. :-s The gps arrow just does not turn to green.
> Does anyone has any ideas?
> 
> Thanks


First thing is a reset. Hold top right button for 12 seconds.


----------



## bruceames

Same result today. Had watch set to Alti mode and GOOD GPS and Fusedalti was disabled. So GOOD mode is useless to me as any long moves that would necessitate it would involve a lot of altitude change and baro-only is very inaccurate unless it's only rolling hills and not a lot of continuous ascent. In Baro mode, the watch is temperature calibrated so that for every 1000 feet of gain the temperature is assumed to drop 3 degrees. If it's less than that, then the altitude will read low. Well here in California it always reads low, especially starting a hike/run in the morning, as the temperature will not drop that much and on the contrary as the day warms up the temperature will stay close to the same or even rise.

Anyway I will change it back to BEST mode and get my FusedAlti back.


----------



## bruceames

another dup post...


----------



## mordecans

Hello,

Is it possible to install Suunto 9 software in Suunto spartan ultra? 

Suunto spartan could support the update... or not?
Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## slashas

mordecans said:


> Hello,
> 
> Is it possible to install Suunto 9 software in Suunto spartan ultra?
> 
> Suunto spartan could support the update... or not?
> Thank you!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not possible, wlo if you like to brick your watch you can try


----------



## Egika

bruceames said:


> In Baro mode, the watch is temperature calibrated so that for every 1000 feet of gain the temperature is assumed to drop 3 degrees. If it's less than that, then the altitude will read low.


are you sure about this? As a sensor developing guy, I know that the pressure reading needs to be temperature calibrated. That applies to the absolute hPa reading.
You are referring to the altitude calculation derived from that hPa value. I would be surprised if the watch would take temp into account here, since it changes constantly if on or off wrist as well as in or out of the car/house/whatever...


----------



## bruceames

Egika said:


> are you sure about this? As a sensor developing guy, I know that the pressure reading needs to be temperature calibrated. That applies to the absolute hPa reading.
> You are referring to the altitude calculation derived from that hPa value. I would be surprised if the watch would take temp into account here, since it changes constantly if on or off wrist as well as in or out of the car/house/whatever...


Baro mode has a fixed temperature calibration based on approximately a 3 degree loss in Fahrenheit per 1000 feet gain in elevation. It's built into the internal algorithm. It doesn't adjust on the fly based on what the watch thinks the temperature is.


----------



## kralik_j

[QUOTE

Baro mode has a fixed temperature calibration based on approximately a 3 degree loss in Fahrenheit per 1000 feet gain in elevation. It's built into the internal algorithm. It doesn't adjust on the fly based on what the watch thinks the temperature is.[/QUOTE]

If I good understand my old titanioum x9 model, i made switch to baro when i was longer time on flat or in base camp, alti mode i have switched when i have climbed. 
I think the logical is also here SSpartan, different is that gpx can identify changing altitude via gpx signal (automatical mode).

I didn't check if the temperature senzor in baro mode fixate temerature and next moving of temperature is changing with some algoritmus


----------



## kralik_j

If I good understand my old titanioum x9 model, i made switch to baro when i was longer time on flat or in base camp, alti mode i have switched when i have climbed. 
I think the logical is also here SSpartan, different is that gpx can identify changing altitude via gpx signal (automatical mode).

I didn't check if the temperature senzor in baro mode fixate temerature and next moving of temperature is changing with some algoritmus

What I have claimed that temperature in automode (only this i'm using) has not appeared the reality temperature( more than my frend with ambit3 or some another devices)., it i have diskovered during winter on skialp touring in auto mode


----------



## slashas

bruceames said:


> Baro mode has a fixed temperature calibration based on approximately a 3 degree loss in Fahrenheit per 1000 feet gain in elevation. It's built into the internal algorithm. It doesn't adjust on the fly based on what the watch thinks the temperature is.


Could you provide source to justify this? I haven't found anything similar in suunto manuals or else...


----------



## Egika

slashas said:


> Could you provide source to justify this? I haven't found anything similar in suunto manuals or else...


I am still also in doubt of this. Again: the hPa measurement surely is temperature affected (and this should be calibrated by the sensor's actual temperature). But a watch is not a weather station, thus can have any temperature totally independent from the temperature/altitude correlation (which heavily depends on humidity either!).


----------



## slashas

Egika said:


> I am still also in doubt of this. Again: the hPa measurement surely is temperature affected (and this should be calibrated by the sensor's actual temperature). But a watch is not a weather station, thus can have any temperature totally independent from the temperature/altitude correlation (which heavily depends on humidity either!).


Totally agree as body temperature impacts watch temp sensor a lot, I would agree if watch would be attached to the bag or somewhere outside from the body.


----------



## bruceames

slashas said:


> Could you provide source to justify this? I haven't found anything similar in suunto manuals or else...


I would but I'm too busy right now, maybe later. Back in the T6 days I used a formula during long day hikes with 5-6k of elev gain, in which I would take the watch off my wrist during breaks for 15 minutes, and note the temp. change vs. alt. change, and recalibrate the altitude on my watch. The formula was very accurate. But it's a known fact that the average loss in temperature per 1000 feet of gain worldwide is approx. 3 degrees, and that has to be accounted for in the watch's algorithm. Don't know why anyone would doubt this.

Here in the Sierra Nevada however the temp. drop is less than the normal 3 degrees per 1000, so the result is that the altitude lags on the watch (on average around 100 less per 1000).


----------



## slashas

bruceames said:


> I would but I'm too busy right now. Back in the T6 days I used a formula (that maybe I came out with, maybe not) during long day hikes with 5-6k of elev gain, in which I would take the watch off my wrist and note the temp. change vs. alt. change and recalibrate the altitude on my watch. The formula was very accurate.


Maybe it is in hiking/mountaineering workout such formula is used as most of the hikers do not wear their watches on hand during the hike or mountaineering


----------



## bruceames

slashas said:


> Maybe it is in hiking/mountaineering workout such formula is used as most of the hikers do not wear their watches on hand during the hike or mountaineering


I used to wear my Ambit on my chest strap. But the T6 was on my wrist. Don't remember exactly if I used the T6 during breaks to measure the temp or if I brought along another thermometer (more likely, as I'm a weather geek). I only used the formula a couple of times on the hike.


----------



## Egika

The temperature drop varies with humidity from 0.5°C - 1°C per 100m

This is a factor of 2 thus can't be used to correlate altitude to temperature.

Any altimeter just uses the barometric pressure formula: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barometric_formula

As you can see it is independent from the temperature.

Again: the only reason for the watch using the temperature is, because the pressure sensor is also slightly sensitive to temperature. Thus it is internally calibrating - but that is to the actual sensor temperature, not to anything of temp change with altitude.


----------



## bruceames

No you are wrong Egika. Temperature does affect altimeter readings. Do a little more research than reading wiki articles.


----------



## bcalvanese

Egika said:


> The temperature drop varies with humidity from 0.5°C - 1°C per 100m
> 
> This is a factor of 2 thus can't be used to correlate altitude to temperature.
> 
> Any altimeter just uses the barometric pressure formula: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barometric_formula
> 
> As you can see it is independent from the temperature.
> 
> Again: the only reason for the watch using the temperature is, because the pressure sensor is also slightly sensitive to temperature. Thus it is internally calibrating - but that is to the actual sensor temperature, not to anything of temp change with altitude.





bruceames said:


> No you are wrong Egika. Temperature does affect altimeter readings. Do a little more research than reading wiki articles.


Ok people.

I'm sure we can handle this like "mature adults".

OK Mr POOPIE PANTS?


----------



## kralik_j

bruceames said:


> No you are wrong Egika. Temperature does affect altimeter readings. Do a little more research than reading wiki articles.


https://www.onthesnow.com/news/a/15157/does-elevation-affect-temperature

"it's important to remember that temperature can vary for a number of different reasons: shade, sun, nearby buildings (or lack of them) and inversions (colder air sinking into valleys because it's heaver than warm air) can all influence the temperature."

" Just remember that temperature changes 5.4°F/1,000 feet (9.8°C/1,000 meters) if it's dry and 3.3°F/1,000 feet (6°C/1,000 meters) if it's snowing."

This is very trusted for me. Tha watch can't evaluated huminidity.. Sun on surface.

This suunto feature is right that in auto mode is checking altitude by gpx, because during workout in mountains is changing weather and o course temperature and huminidty, not only you climbing position. It is some compensation of elements

This formula is very non propable.
Attention, altitude has influence on temperature changing not back

But despite my watch is showing strange temperature(more +2-3degr opposite reality) I hope that not due to formula evaluation ?


----------



## bruceames

kralik_j said:


> https://www.onthesnow.com/news/a/15157/does-elevation-affect-temperature
> 
> "it's important to remember that temperature can vary for a number of different reasons: shade, sun, nearby buildings (or lack of them) and inversions (colder air sinking into valleys because it's heaver than warm air) can all influence the temperature."
> 
> " Just remember that temperature changes 5.4°F/1,000 feet (9.8°C/1,000 meters) if it's dry and 3.3°F/1,000 feet (6°C/1,000 meters) if it's snowing."
> 
> This is very trusted for me. Tha watch can't evaluated huminidity.. Sun on surface.
> 
> This suunto feature is right that in auto mode is checking altitude by gpx, because during workout in mountains is changing weather and o course temperature and huminidty, not only you climbing position. It is some compensation of elements
> 
> This formula is very non propable.
> Attention, altitude has influence on temperature changing not back
> 
> But despite my watch is showing strange temperature(more +2-3degr opposite reality) I hope that not due to formula evaluation ��


I'm not referring to altitude having an effect on temperature, but rather the expected temperature change as a result in change of altitude.

https://allaboutairplanes.wordpress.com/2011/08/20/effects-of-temperature-on-glideslope/

Suunto has mentioned this in their literature and even advertised their T6 watches as having temperature compensation.

Specifications:

Color: Black
Measures vertical speed: Yes
Real-time vertical cumulative value: Yes
*Temperature compensation: Yes*
Total ascent/descent: Yes
Resolution: 1 meter
Recording intervals: 2 seconds, 10 seconds
Altimeter/barometer lock: Yes
Altitude range: -1,600 to 29,500 feet


----------



## Egika

I keep repeating myself.
Yes, of course the watches have a temperature compensation. Of the sensor!
Believe me - I am an electrical engineer and have done sensor development.
And I am a mountaineer, who has been using analog altimeters for a couple of years. They are perfectly accurate (as long as the weather does not change), and work on pressure readings according to the above posted barometric formula.
As others said: the only thing you get from Suunto in addition is the low pass GPS adjustment (FusedAlti).
And again as others have posted in °F and ft there is a correlation between temp and altitude - but this is not used in any way by the watch.
Of course you can measure this effect when putting the watch away from the body heat. That proves the physics (and is what you have done).
Still the only thing Suunto is using the temperature for, is to get good readings out of the pressure sensor. That's it.


----------



## slashas

You can use temperature after swimming to view in workout summary and it is spot on with water temperature as not affected by body temp


----------



## bruceames

Egika said:


> I keep repeating myself.
> Yes, of course the watches have a temperature compensation. Of the sensor!
> Believe me - I am an electrical engineer and have done sensor development.
> And I am a mountaineer, who has been using analog altimeters for a couple of years. They are perfectly accurate (as long as the weather does not change), and work on pressure readings according to the above posted barometric formula.
> As others said: the only thing you get from Suunto in addition is the low pass GPS adjustment (FusedAlti).
> And again as others have posted in °F and ft there is a correlation between temp and altitude - but this is not used in any way by the watch.
> Of course you can measure this effect when putting the watch away from the body heat. That proves the physics (and is what you have done).
> Still the only thing Suunto is using the temperature for, is to get good readings out of the pressure sensor. That's it.


It sounds like we're talking about two different things. Anyway this topic is not worth arguing over as watches these days are have GPS correction (at least in BEST mode).


----------



## bcalvanese

Is the Spartan Ultra being phased out?

They have been on sale for 45% off on the Suunto website for quite a while now, and they don't seem to be replenishing the stock.


----------



## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> Is the Spartan Ultra being phased out?
> 
> They have been on sale for 45% off on the Suunto website for quite a while now, and they don't seem to be replenishing the stock.


Given that the Ultra is nearly 2 years old, and of course, the "reputation" that it has had from reviewers, it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't come out with an "improved" version, probably with a different name, maybe along the lines of the Suunto 9 format. Face it, while now, the SSU is a fairly adequate device, but it's still lacking many features that people have been asking for, and of course, the GPS problems of it's early life haven't been completely alleviated, and, given that Garmin is now offering Galileo in it's "older" Fenix 5, 5s, and 5x lines, it seems about time to introduce another model.

I rather doubt that Suunto will completely abandon the Spartan line, althought I would think that as new devices, with new hardware are introduced, the Spartans may be left out of some of the updates, even if the software is similar.

Just my 2c worth..


----------



## BobMiles

bcalvanese said:


> Is the Spartan Ultra being phased out?
> 
> They have been on sale for 45% off on the Suunto website for quite a while now, and they don't seem to be replenishing the stock.


I think it is. My guess is that they have some issues on the hardware side which they can not resolve. 
My ultra is in repair right now and they offered this right away when I contacted support because of my random crashes during activities.
I will see what the suunto 9 will stand up to and then maybe switch to that, given the price will drop a little...


----------



## martowl

BobMiles said:


> bcalvanese said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the Spartan Ultra being phased out?
> 
> They have been on sale for 45% off on the Suunto website for quite a while now, and they don't seem to be replenishing the stock.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is. My guess is that they have some issues on the hardware side which they can not resolve.
> My ultra is in repair right now and they offered this right away when I contacted support because of my random crashes during activities.
> I will see what the suunto 9 will stand up to and then maybe switch to that, given the price will drop a little...
Click to expand...

The 9 is very similar to the SSU with nearly identical firmware. It is the next iteration I believe. I have my SSU as well and have no issues for 20 months so I do not believe they have hardware problems. The 9 has a different GPS chip that uses much less power. I would have liked a 9 without OHR but I doubt that will happen.


----------



## PTBC

BobMiles said:


> I think it is. My guess is that they have some issues on the hardware side which they can not resolve.
> My ultra is in repair right now and they offered this right away when I contacted support because of my random crashes during activities.
> I will see what the suunto 9 will stand up to and then maybe switch to that, given the price will drop a little...


Similar experience, last time I sent mine back for repair they sent me a notice saying they would replace it, and according to the shipping tracking the repair center hadn't received it yet


----------



## bruceames

Just an update: I changed the settings on the SSU to BEST and now it gives me the correct altitude. On my standard hill route the peak is 1365 feet and the SSU was always within 10-15 feet of it. But after changing to GOOD GPS mode, I got peak readings of 1248, 1283, and 1223 feet (Auto was used on the first run and Altitude the last two) The starting elevation generally varied by around 40 feet, but that was normal with GPS in BEST mode as well. It was a little weird with climbing as at a few points after gaining a little altitude the watch read a lower altitude. It's been 12 years or more since I used that formula for temperature compensation but if I run across it (likely on one of my old PC hiking files in excel) then I will post it.


----------



## ambit_cracker

Egika said:


> Again: the only reason for the watch using the temperature is, because the pressure sensor is also slightly sensitive to temperature. Thus it is internally calibrating - but that is to the actual sensor temperature, not to anything of temp change with altitude.


I fully agree with you, Egika, and thus disagree with bruceames. Capacitive barometric pressure sensors as used in our GPS watches measure both pressure and temperature at the same time, to be able to correct pressure for small dilatations issues caused by temperature variations. And nothing to do with the relation "pressure/temperature change vs altitude".
See e.g. technical details in this article:
http://www.te.com/commerce/Document...glishENG_DS_MS5611-01BA03_B.pdfCAT-BLPS0036


----------



## ukclimb

Hi can anyone help with settings? I have a 24 hour event at the weekend and need to be able to rely on my Spartan for navigation. The last time I used it I set the GPS for OK and it died after about 16 hours. I am assuming this is not right as the Suunto guidelines are for the battery to last much longer using this setting. Can anyone help with advice? Thank you. Tim


----------



## PTBC

ukclimb said:


> Hi can anyone help with settings? I have a 24 hour event at the weekend and need to be able to rely on my Spartan for navigation. The last time I used it I set the GPS for OK and it died after about 16 hours. I am assuming this is not right as the Suunto guidelines are for the battery to last much longer using this setting. Can anyone help with advice? Thank you. Tim


Pretty sure that for for navigation you have to use 'Best'

Before you start a move you can scroll down to the move options and select power saving which will let you enable the low colour screen option and set the screen timeout both of which will extend the battery life.


----------



## martowl

ukclimb said:


> Hi can anyone help with settings? I have a 24 hour event at the weekend and need to be able to rely on my Spartan for navigation. The last time I used it I set the GPS for OK and it died after about 16 hours. I am assuming this is not right as the Suunto guidelines are for the battery to last much longer using this setting. Can anyone help with advice? Thank you. Tim


If you use Navigation you are automatically on Best fix and you will not be able to get more than 18h recording. Do you really need Nav? Is the course marked, etc? My experience with SSU is 35h recording with Good GPS fix, Screen timeout on, Low color mode, no autolap (I hit lap buttons at aid stations). I had Stryd and HR belt connected. If you turn off tones/vibration you could probably go a bit longer.

One way to get around this is to turn on Nav and then turn it off again. Otherwise if you require Navigation enabled you will have to charge during the event. Hope this helps.

Your needs are why I purchased an S9.


----------



## craigyboy2003

Hi all, 

apologies for posting onto this thread but wasn't sure on how to start a new one! :roll:

Currently I am having some issues with my Suunto Spartan Ultra. It is frozen with no display. The watch syncs to Suuntolink on PC and to Movescount app on phone but doesn't do anything other than that. I have tried the top right button reset- watch resets but nothing changes (still blank) I then tried the top 2 button reset - same thing. Tried forcing software update via the PC app and it fails stating that it lost connection with the watch. I have removed the device from movescount (website) and restored default values (website and this has made no difference either. Currently I am stuck and have been for a few days. If anyone has any suggestions Id be more than willing to give them a go!

Thanks.

Craig


----------



## Egika

Sounds like defective screen hardware to me.
I would have it checked by the Suunto support.


----------



## craigyboy2003

I think if that was the case though it wouldn't fail the software reset etc? This same thing happened before and it randomly started working again after about 500 resets haha.


----------



## sb029111

craigyboy2003 said:


> I think if that was the case though it wouldn't fail the software reset etc? This same thing happened before and it randomly started working again after about 500 resets haha.


I've had the same thing, it's happened twice with my SSUWHRBaro, and I believe I've seen in the discussions that it's a known bug that "should" be fixed in future firmware. Mine has come back to life after spending some time in it's "coma". I've contacted Suunto Customer Support (USA), and they've said to hit the top button for 12 seconds, (Is that an automatic reply? Somewhat like Microsoft's "Reboot the machine"?) and if that doesn't send it into Suunto Support. Well, mine didn't start happening until after the last firmware (or the one before, can't remember) update, and it's been tossed around in the forums.


----------



## Egika

yes, it's been tossed around in the forums.
And mine had it as well with the initial release of the v2 firmware.
But even in this case the watch comes back with the 2-button reset (going into the boot loader screen).

With the newest firmware 2.0.42 this issue is solved anyway.


----------



## craigyboy2003

Egika said:


> yes, it's been tossed around in the forums.
> And mine had it as well with the initial release of the v2 firmware.
> But even in this case the watch comes back with the 2-button reset (going into the boot loader screen).
> 
> With the newest firmware 2.0.42 this issue is solved anyway.


My watch has the latest firmware update and is still doing this. Surely Suunto should be thinking of an easier way to completely reboot the watch without all this messing about-especially if it has happened to a lot of people!

When you done the 2 button reset did it have something visible on screen straight away? Mine stays completely blank during all resets and when connected to computer.


----------



## Egika

if the watch in in boot mode (after the two buttons long press), then there is the arrow pointing down with some dots below.
That means it is waiting for a SuuntoLink connection.

Totally blank screen is either an empty battery or something else wrong.


----------



## setsuna

Hi all,

I have been used SSU for several months and it works perfectly. However 2 days ago, the GPS and step counter did not work. I have already updated to the latest firmware at the time it released. What should I do now?

Thanks.

Setsuna


----------



## BobMiles

setsuna said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have been used SSU for several months and it works perfectly. However 2 days ago, the GPS and step counter did not work. I have already updated to the latest firmware at the time it released. What should I do now?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Setsuna


Have you added a new route maybe? In the past, there were corrupt route files that broke GPS.
In any case, I would first try restarting the watch (hold upper button for 12 seconds or more)


----------



## setsuna

BobMiles said:


> setsuna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I have been used SSU for several months and it works perfectly. However 2 days ago, the GPS and step counter did not work. I have already updated to the latest firmware at the time it released. What should I do now?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Setsuna
> 
> 
> 
> Have you added a new route maybe? In the past, there were corrupt route files that broke GPS.
> In any case, I would first try restarting the watch (hold upper button for 12 seconds or more)
Click to expand...

Yes, I have added a new route (everyday). I tried to restart it and the step counter works but the GPS is still unavailable.


----------



## setsuna

setsuna said:


> Yes, I have added a new route (everyday). I tried to restart it and the step counter works but the GPS is still unavailable.


It works now. Problem solved.


----------



## -Laurie-

divinours said:


> It is a bug, Suunto has acknowledged it (see the 'Inaccurate HR' thread). They're supposed to be working on a fix. Probably the fix will f*ck up something else though


Now the Suunto 9 is out, will we be getting further updates for the SSU? I still have the HR spike problem at the beginning of runs.


----------



## PTBC

-Laurie- said:


> Now the Suunto 9 is out, will we be getting further updates for the SSU? I still have the HR spike problem at the beginning of runs.


Maybe best to think of them as a common platform, so some level updates will be common to all Spartans and likely rolled out to all models, unless Suunto wants to push people into upgrading or to create a distinction between the 9 and ultra ranges which is more a marketing decision than a technical one.


----------



## -Laurie-

PTBC said:


> Maybe best to think of them as a common platform, so some level updates will be common to all Spartans and likely rolled out to all models, unless Suunto wants to push people into upgrading or to create a distinction between the 9 and ultra ranges which is more a marketing decision than a technical one.


Makes sense, thanks.

Anybody know of a good site with detailed info on the 'Stryd and Spartan Ultra' settings etc. I've found some good info on the 'Stryd' site, but I'm wondering... to get Pace and distance etc from Stryd, you have to disable GPS, so how can you get average lap power? Got Styrd for a really good price, should get it tomorrow.


----------



## martowl

-Laurie- said:


> Makes sense, thanks.
> 
> Anybody know of a good site with detailed info on the 'Stryd and Spartan Ultra' settings etc. I've found some good info on the 'Stryd' site, but I'm wondering... to get Pace and distance etc from Stryd, you have to disable GPS, so how can you get average lap power? Got Styrd for a really good price, should get it tomorrow.


The pace/distance/cadence will automatically come from Stryd if paired as a footpod and if selected as a footpod in the advanced section of the sport profile. Nothing else needs to be done. Stryd will also send power and if you have configured a power field or use the Power profile you will see power data.

To use Power Target Zones you must pair Stryd BOTH as a footpod and powerpod AND select BOTH in the advanced sport profile. You must have Power intensity zones set. (note this is not an ideal way to get power zones and Suunto will likely change it as it conflicts with pairing a bike powerpod).

I am a long time Stryd user and this setup works for the entire Spartan line and the S9 line


----------



## -Laurie-

martowl said:


> The pace/distance/cadence will automatically come from Stryd if paired as a footpod and if selected as a footpod in the advanced section of the sport profile. Nothing else needs to be done. Stryd will also send power and if you have configured a power field or use the Power profile you will see power data.
> 
> To use Power Target Zones you must pair Stryd BOTH as a footpod and powerpod AND select BOTH in the advanced sport profile. You must have Power intensity zones set. (note this is not an ideal way to get power zones and Suunto will likely change it as it conflicts with pairing a bike powerpod).
> 
> I am a long time Stryd user and this setup works for the entire Spartan line and the S9 line


Thanks for the info, and I'll follow your settings.

This from the Stryd site, must be old I presume and no longer needs to be followed exactly.
https://support.stryd.com/hc/en-us/...om-Stryd-on-my-Suunto-Spartan-Ultra-Suunto-9-

Could you explain what the Power fields of 3 sec, 10, sec and 30 secs are. I can't think of a use.


----------



## Jaka83

If I understand correctly, you are asking about the Sport mode fields on the watch?
Those are 3, 10 and 30 sec. average values for power. A rolling average of the last 3 seconds for example.


----------



## -Laurie-

Jaka83 said:


> If I understand correctly, you are asking about the Sport mode fields on the watch?
> Those are 3, 10 and 30 sec. average values for power. A rolling average of the last 3 seconds for example.


Thanks for clearing that up.

Sort of a short equivalent of current pace, or a more accurate check on current power level. Mmmm... useful for checking on a long event.


----------



## martowl

-Laurie- said:


> Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> Sort of a short equivalent of current pace, or a more accurate check on current power level. Mmmm... useful for checking on a long event.


The power is too variable to display as instantaneous, that is why the lowest is a 3 sec average. You can display power as an average for the entire run or as a lap average as well. I do not find power as useful in ultras as I thought I would, mainly because you would need to know what your critical power is for flat, uphill, downhill and hiking. It can be useful to ensure you don't go too hard but HR can help with that as well. The Stryd battery will last 20-22h in my experience so if your race is longer I don't bother using it. I do use the Stryd for training as interval training with power works well.


----------



## slashas

Is there any scientific background about power how it should be measured and etc? Sometimes I think that is non controlled stuff, every pod maker can implement their algorithms and both different devices can report different data and both are going to be right


----------



## martowl

slashas said:


> Is there any scientific background about power how it should be measured and etc? Sometimes I think that is non controlled stuff, every pod maker can implement their algorithms and both different devices can report different data and both are going to be right


It is relative so it doesn't matter, what matters is if the measurement is consistent to provide an alternative to HR for effort. You can do the same with pace but that changes with incline so power should take all of that into account. Precision and who is "right" doesn't matter but what does is that on the same surface with the same incline and shoes in two different places you get the same power reading...all about reproducibility.


----------



## Egika

Just out of interest - and because I have not used a power display yet:
Should power not correlate with heart rate?
Under which circumstances would it not do so?
Thank you!


----------



## likepend1

Egika said:


> Just out of interest - and because I have not used a power display yet:
> Should power not correlate with heart rate?
> Under which circumstances would it not do so?
> Thank you!


Power changes instantly, HR doesn't. takes some time for the metabolism to ract to the effort. big problem for people who are not aware of what they are capable of.


----------



## Egika

Understood. But at a 30s average for power the responsiveness will be similar won't it?


----------



## likepend1

Egika said:


> Understood. But at a 30s average for power the responsiveness will be similar won't it?


HR always laggs behind (just like cat & mouse). How fast your HR catches up depends on the effort itself (low/mid (endurance), tempo, high(sprints)) and on how fit you are. Important is the FTP ( https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/functional-threshold-power-the-most-important-power-metric/ ) . also keep in mind that HR is temperature dependent.

you probably have witnessed the same thing in your earlier years starting running. you start your exercise and everyting goes so well the first km. but then it gets harder and harder and you try to keep the tempo. this is where a) experience / self-awareness or a b) power meter can help. if you know your power numbers it's impossible to overshoot and get into the red zone. I have been training with a power-meter for years now (cycling) and it really helped me alot!

Runnig power is difficult just like martowl wrote, you have to focus on your own numbers (consistency) and not on the accuracy/precision. it will be really interesting to see where alle the manufacturers are going with their "numbers/algorithms" sinde there is no Gold-standard for verification. we have pods, insoles, wristbased (new polar) power right now but no studies to back it up. Some of them are off by 50W and more compared to each other. really an interesting topic


----------



## -Laurie-

Just started running with Stryd and I've got it all running nicely after following advice from members here and the Stryd site.

Now one thing I've just noticed. Reviewing today's recovery run, my heart rate zones have changed. This is odd because the HR zones settings in the watch are as I set them, Movescount shows the same HR zones.

So it must be Stryd that is changing them from my CP score. 

I've been running using Pete Pfitzinger method of HR and pace for years and they match extremely well against each other. Now the changed recovery HR zone is 139, but normally it's 150 (I stay at 146)

Could anybody clarify what is going on?

Thanks


----------



## martowl

Egika said:


> Just out of interest - and because I have not used a power display yet:
> Should power not correlate with heart rate?
> Under which circumstances would it not do so?
> Thank you!


Many other factors can affect HR as it can vary...nervous prior to a race for example. For short, intense intervals HR does not go up or down fast enough. These are best done by RPE or Power to ensure that the efforts and recovery are even. Depending on terrain pace could be used but if a slope is variable pace is not an accurate representation of effort.


----------



## -Laurie-

-Laurie- said:


> Just started running with Stryd and I've got it all running nicely after following advice from members here and the Stryd site.
> 
> Now one thing I've just noticed. Reviewing today's recovery run, my heart rate zones have changed. This is odd because the HR zones settings in the watch are as I set them, Movescount shows the same HR zones.
> 
> So it must be Stryd that is changing them from my CP score.
> 
> I've been running using Pete Pfitzinger method of HR and pace for years and they match extremely well against each other. Now the changed recovery HR zone is 139, but normally it's 150 (I stay at 146)
> 
> Could anybody clarify what is going on?
> 
> Thanks


Duh... figured it out. I've used an unspecified Sport mode and it's using default HR zones. As I only run with the watch I didn't even realise you could have different HR zones!


----------



## martowl

-Laurie- said:


> Duh... figured it out. I've used an unspecified Sport mode and it's using default HR zones. As I only run with the watch I didn't even realise you could have different HR zones!


Good!


----------



## martowl

Egika said:


> Understood. But at a 30s average for power the responsiveness will be similar won't it?


In a 30s average you could have gone up, over and down a small hill. The 30s average will only reflect the average for the small hill but the 3s will show the uphill and downhill power, which will be radically different. I primarily use Stryd for intervals, where a 3s average is critical.


----------



## Jaka83

Just out of curiosity ... is there any word of a FW update, since the last update came in May and we are already in September now and Suunto said there will be a 3-month update cycle? The watch is functioning well, but some improvement could still be done - for example turning off the breadcrumbs screen if not using the navigation functions, letting us add the default mode screens to custom modes (altitude, sexy HR zones screen, maybe add a power zones screen as well), figure out the multiple target conundrum (if I set distance and time for my targets, I only get one color ring indicating my progress during exercise), etc.

And yes, I'd rather wait one more month and have something good roll out with the new FW, than introduce a buggy FW to our watches. So not impatient here - well, to some degree - but just asking since everything is very quiet regarding FW updates.


----------



## sb029111

Jaka83 said:


> Just out of curiosity ... is there any word of a FW update, since the last update came in May and we are already in September now and Suunto said there will be a 3-month update cycle? The watch is functioning well, but some improvement could still be done - for example turning off the breadcrumbs screen if not using the navigation functions, letting us add the default mode screens to custom modes (altitude, sexy HR zones screen, maybe add a power zones screen as well), figure out the multiple target conundrum (if I set distance and time for my targets, I only get one color ring indicating my progress during exercise), etc.
> 
> And yes, I'd rather wait one more month and have something good roll out with the new FW, than introduce a buggy FW to our watches. So not impatient here - well, to some degree - but just asking since everything is very quiet regarding FW updates.


No update because they're busy putting out fires, adding pretty bezels, and updating the Suunto 9...


----------



## martowl

sb029111 said:


> No update because they're busy putting out fires, adding pretty bezels, and updating the Suunto 9...


Wow, you seem unhappy....an update is in the works.


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> Wow, you seem unhappy....an update is in the works.


It's poor customer service to say you are going to have a quarterly release cycle (which Suunto did) and then not send out any updates as to status, missing the targets is OK, but you should communicate and not leave people wondering what is going on.


----------



## martowl

PTBC said:


> It's poor customer service to say you are going to have a quarterly release cycle (which Suunto did) and then not send out any updates as to status, missing the targets is OK, but you should communicate and not leave people wondering what is going on.


So do you count days or minutes or seconds...Suunto did state generally quarterly updates....but not to the day/hour/minute. I know for a fact they work very hard on firmware updates with many releases for testing. Would you rather have bugs or a bit late? When Suunto attempted to communicate with the Spartan updates it did not go well as there were issues in implementing some features. They are not a large company and provide IMHO more updates than one would expect. Both the Spartan and S9 are fully functional. Updates now are simply icing on the cake.


----------



## slashas

I would release fake update to make customers happy, with release notes bug fixes for space continuum


----------



## Pedaw

martowl said:


> Both the Spartan and S9 are fully functional. Updates now are simply icing on the cake.


In my opinion that´s not true!
I´m waiting very hard for the next update because currently my Spartan Ultra mostly shows incorrect heart rate values which means it´s useless for me.
For such an expensive watch that´s not state of the art and I hope that the update will fix the HR issues.


----------



## slashas

Pedaw said:


> In my opinion that´s not true!
> I´m waiting very hard for the next update because currently my Spartan Ultra mostly shows incorrect heart rate values which means it´s useless for me.
> For such an expensive watch that´s not state of the art and I hope that the update will fix the HR issues.


I assume that you use chest strap as SSU do not have optical heart rate, so it might be belt or how you use it issue not the watch...


----------



## PTBC

martowl said:


> So do you count days or minutes or seconds...Suunto did state generally quarterly updates....but not to the day/hour/minute. I know for a fact they work very hard on firmware updates with many releases for testing. Would you rather have bugs or a bit late? When Suunto attempted to communicate with the Spartan updates it did not go well as there were issues in implementing some features. They are not a large company and provide IMHO more updates than one would expect. Both the Spartan and S9 are fully functional. Updates now are simply icing on the cake.


I've worked in developing customer service, support, change management and release management processes and they in my opinion have not done a good job at communicating and dealing with customers, this is not about the development process and the test/break-fix cycles, but I get that we all have different expectations. I understand that as a tester you have much more insight into whats going on, and that you can't give out details and I also appreciate what goes into development efforts, but it would be better for Suunto to withdraw the quarterly updates commitment and just say that they will be continuing to work on the Spartan and will issues updates as appropriate, even then though it would be better if each update wasn't a complete surprise and some advance notice was given, especially regarding new features as opposed to bug fixes/performance improvements.
Alternatively do small bug fix/performance improvements (there usually some room for code optimization etc.) releases on a reasonably reliable schedule and slot in new features to that schedule as they are ready; the idea was to move everything to a new common platform so you would expect some of the release items for the 9 to be relevant to the platform not just the model in which case roll out a small Spartan fix/patch at the same time, just a thought. just because they are a small company doesn't mean they can't follow better processes, and this is not about the development work, it's about the customer management/marketing side that I feel they are lacking


----------



## davol

PTBC said:


> It's poor customer service to say you are going to have a quarterly release cycle (which Suunto did) and then not send out any updates as to status, missing the targets is OK, but you should communicate and not leave people wondering what is going on.


It's absolutely customer service. Doesn't take much to give the punters a heads up EG: We're running behind schedule the update will be another 4 weeks.

Crikey that took me 11 seconds to do.


----------



## davol

oooops double post


----------



## Pidiokamptris

Does anyone has problem with laps in pool swimming? Always shows 0 on watch.. The lap counter is correct(increases every time i push the down button) but the lap time is always zero.. In other activities i dont have this problem, only in pool swimming..


----------



## Jaka83

Pidiokamptris said:


> Does anyone has problem with laps in pool swimming? Always shows 0 on watch.. The lap counter is correct(increases every time i push the down button) but the lap time is always zero.. In other activities i dont have this problem, only in pool swimming..


Custom sport mode or default?
Either way, have you tried going through the sport modes parameters and see if any of them have been changed and don't show up with the right name on the configuration screen?

Sometimes Suunto changes the parameter name values in code and this causes the watch to display wrong data if you have custom sport mode settings. I've seen this happen in default sport modes too and a reset of the sport mode helps.


----------



## Pidiokamptris

Jaka83 said:


> Custom sport mode or default?
> Either way, have you tried going through the sport modes parameters and see if any of them have been changed and don't show up with the right name on the configuration screen?
> 
> Sometimes Suunto changes the parameter name values in code and this causes the watch to display wrong data if you have custom sport mode settings. I've seen this happen in default sport modes too and a reset of the sport mode helps.


Both custom and default(pool swimming basic)..
In custom pool swimming i put a screen with laps in collumns but all laps are 0'.. In default pool swimming i press the lap button, the watch shows for a few seconds the lap screen in which the lap number is correct(increases every time i press the button), but the lap duration is 0'. 
After the activity i sync my watch with movescount and the laps in movescount are correct.. In the logbook of the watch it shows lap duration same with intervals.. For example if the first interval is 01:30 the first laps is 01:30 too.. If second interval is 01:15 the second lap is 01:15 too.. 
What do you mean reset the sport? I try to change my custom sport to make it different but inhave the same issue.. I reset my watch and i re-update it but it didnt helps..


----------



## PTBC

Pidiokamptris said:


> Both custom and default(pool swimming basic)..
> In custom pool swimming i put a screen with laps in collumns but all laps are 0'.. In default pool swimming i press the lap button, the watch shows for a few seconds the lap screen in which the lap number is correct(increases every time i press the button), but the lap duration is 0'.
> After the activity i sync my watch with movescount and the laps in movescount are correct.. In the logbook of the watch it shows lap duration same with intervals.. For example if the first interval is 01:30 the first laps is 01:30 too.. If second interval is 01:15 the second lap is 01:15 too..
> What do you mean reset the sport? I try to change my custom sport to make it different but inhave the same issue.. I reset my watch and i re-update it but it didnt helps..


mistake...not reading properly and cant find the delete


----------



## Pidiokamptris

PTBC said:


> mistake...not reading properly and cant find the delete


??


----------



## PTBC

PTBC said:


> mistake...not reading properly and cant find the delete


I commented, realised I'd misread the bit about lap columns so my comment didn't make sense, but there was no delete option


----------



## sb029111

I saw or read something about either a takeover, or sale of part of American Sports company to a Chinese company; perhaps they're focusing on that now for a while rather than the actual products they make? But then, the S9 has had some updates, but the red-headed stepchild "Spartans" are left out in the cold.

https://the5krunner.com/2018/10/11/suunto-for-sale-the-company-amer-sports/


----------



## slashas

sb029111 said:


> I saw or read something about either a takeover, or sale of part of American Sports company to a Chinese company; perhaps they're focusing on that now for a while rather than the actual products they make? But then, the S9 has had some updates, but the red-headed stepchild "Spartans" are left out in the cold.
> 
> https://the5krunner.com/2018/10/11/suunto-for-sale-the-company-amer-sports/


Be patient mate, be... you will pleasantly surprised soon with FW


----------



## lapka

Looks like new firmware is there (2.5.18). Downloading and installing right now.


----------



## cageracer

Pedaw said:


> In my opinion that´s not true!
> I´m waiting very hard for the next update because currently my Spartan Ultra mostly shows incorrect heart rate values which means it´s useless for me.
> For such an expensive watch that´s not state of the art and I hope that the update will fix the HR issues.


I doubt the firmware update will fix the ...... Suunto strap. They replaced mine but the new one still doesn't read right. I've linked it to my Lezyne computer and it won't read right on that either. I've had so many activities' data ruined by that ...... strap.

Every other manufacturer can make a HR strap that reads HR. It is not that hard.

Suunto can go and reproduce with themselves, they've lost me as a customer.


----------



## mbergi

The Strap is really crap. I started to use a Polar H10 with my SSU. On spot HR readings all the time. Nothing but issues with Suunto straps after using them for some weeks.


----------



## setsuna

In Movecounts, I can turn off notification of selected apps. But it seems that Suunto App has no option to turn off selected apps.


----------



## bjarnemu

*Answer calls from Spartan Ultra*

Hi,

The latest software update (2.5.18) states this new feature:

* You can now easily reject or answer calls from your Spartan.

Does anybody know how to activate this (doesn't seem to work for me). Does it depend on the phone?
I have updated both watch and app.


----------



## Egika

*Re: Answer calls from Spartan Ultra*



bjarnemu said:


> Hi,
> 
> The latest software update (2.5.18) states this new feature:
> 
> * You can now easily reject or answer calls from your Spartan.
> 
> Does anybody know how to activate this (doesn't seem to work for me). Does it depend on the phone?
> I have updated both watch and app.


Only works with iOS.
Do you have an iPhone?


----------



## Sobul

*Re: Answer calls from Spartan Ultra*



bjarnemu said:


> Hi,
> 
> The latest software update (2.5.18) states this new feature:
> 
> * You can now easily reject or answer calls from your Spartan.
> 
> Does anybody know how to activate this (doesn't seem to work for me). Does it depend on the phone?
> I have updated both watch and app.


When call is coming, press low bottom /or swipe up on watch and menu appear. Then select and confirm answer/decline from menu.


----------



## enrico89

Hello, 

3 weeks ago I bought a SSU and done the initial set-up and connection to movescount + iphone. Everytime i was on sport exercise mode, the watch would automatically resets after 5 - 10min of activity max. After numerous resets and firmware update (running 2.5.18) the problem would not go away.

I then sent it back to suunto. The watch came back today (the display and the gasket were replaced) and after having it connected to PC and iphone the same exact problem occurs.

Did anyone ever experienced these sudden resets while in exercise mode?

Thanks for your help


----------



## Egika

enrico89 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 3 weeks ago I bought a SSU and done the initial set-up and connection to movescount + iphone. Everytime i was on sport exercise mode, the watch would automatically resets after 5 - 10min of activity max. After numerous resets and firmware update (running 2.5.18) the problem would not go away.
> 
> I then sent it back to suunto. The watch came back today (the display and the gasket were replaced) and after having it connected to PC and iphone the same exact problem occurs.
> 
> Did anyone ever experienced these sudden resets while in exercise mode?
> 
> Thanks for your help


Only had this once with an earlier firmware.. Should definitely not happen anymore.
Are you using a customized sport mode or a default one?


----------



## Jaka83

Maybe you are using Suunto app and Movescount mobile on the phone. This was happening to me when I had both apps installed and paired with the watch.


----------



## enrico89

Egika said:


> Only had this once with an earlier firmware.. Should definitely not happen anymore.
> Are you using a customized sport mode or a default one?


Using a default one. I tried a few different ones but always the same issue


----------



## enrico89

Jaka83 said:


> Maybe you are using Suunto app and Movescount mobile on the phone. This was happening to me when I had both apps installed and paired with the watch.


Yes, it's paired with the phone but only Movescount. Could that be the issue?


----------



## cageracer

So here's a screenshot of the HR data I'm getting from the Suunto HR belt. Absolute rubbish.

Trying to deal with Suunto customer service is painful as well.


----------



## sss5xxx

I have same problem with original suunto strap. I bought only strap on aliexpres for 3,5€ and now i dont have any problem with my HR. Of course strape from china is not for suunto so i have to customize strap, but now i know where was problem. Not on reciever or what is name, but problem was on strap.


----------



## alllf

Hello, I have same problem with original suunto smart sensor or suunto strap - sh*t. I'm 44 years old. My maximum heart rate in the stress test is 188, according to suunto's 237 
Absolute rubbish.


----------



## magullo

I have been using my Spartan Ultra for three months now, so far quite satisfied. Some hiking but mostly for running, this watch is my daily device. 
GPS has been quite precise, but today it messed my run. 







I still have one question, maybe somebody can help me: is there a way to show the time during an activity?
Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## likepend1

magullo said:


> I still have one question, maybe somebody can help me: is there a way to show the time during an activity?
> Thanks.


Press and hold the lower button (or double tap the screen). shows the time and gives you the ability to lock the screen.


----------



## Jaka83

likepend1 said:


> Press and hold the lower button (or double tap the screen). shows the time and gives you the ability to lock the screen.


Or have one of the parameter slots on the screen show day time instead of another parameter.


----------



## -Laurie-

slashas said:


> I assume that you use chest strap as SSU do not have optical heart rate, so it might be belt or how you use it issue not the watch...


No, there is definitely a bug with HR after the start activity button is pressed, a spike for a few seconds which ruins the average HR of your activity.

Speaking of update features, does anybody know if Stryd footpod calibration is going to be available? Now that would be useful!


----------



## 321bigbang

Hi.

I use the new watchface (=suunto9)
The external crown show the training time but inside, there is another crown. What doas it mean please ?

Thank you !


----------



## 321bigbang

Hi.

I use the new watchface (=suunto9)
The external crown show the training time but inside, there is another crown. What doas it mean please ?

Thank you !


----------



## Egika

321bigbang said:


> Hi.
> 
> I use the new watchface (=suunto9)
> The external crown show the training time but inside, there is another crown. What doas it mean please ?
> 
> Thank you !


Battery charge (kind of redundant since the percentage is shown as well...)


----------



## 321bigbang

Egika said:


> Battery charge (kind of redundant since the percentage is shown as well...)


Thank you !


----------



## -Laurie-

I've read that the Spartan Ultra cannot calibrate the Stryd power pod. But I found this direct Suunto help.

CALIBRATING POWER PODFor power PODs (power meters), you need to initiate the calibration from the sport mode options in your watch.
To calibrate a power POD:


Pair a power POD with your watch if you have not done so already.
Select a sport mode that uses a power POD and then open the mode options.
Select Calibrate power POD and follow the instructions in the watch.
You should re-calibrate the power POD from time to time.


If I go to Options in a sport mode with 'foot pod' as recommended by Stryd, I only see foot pod or power pod on/off, no calibration.


----------



## Jaka83

I don't have a stryd, but I do use a 3rd party bike power pod for my road bike.
When I go to Exercise -> Cycling -> Scroll down to the options -> The first option is "Calibrate power POD". The only thing this does is zero out the power POD in the current position, so it reads 0 W.

But you have to do all this on the watch like you would actually start an Exercise but instead of starting, you scroll down on the watch into "pre exercise" settings.


----------



## -Laurie-

Jaka83 said:


> I don't have a stryd, but I do use a 3rd party bike power pod for my road bike.
> When I go to Exercise -> Cycling -> Scroll down to the options -> The first option is "Calibrate power POD". The only thing this does is zero out the power POD in the current position, so it reads 0 W.
> 
> But you have to do all this on the watch like you would actually start an Exercise but instead of starting, you scroll down on the watch into "pre exercise" settings.


So it can't fine-tune a measured distance.

As I have the Stryd pod I really need fine-tune calibration. Right now it's not much better than GPS, and I find that on my races they are measured long (like gps) so I have to workout that on average I need to run 4 secs faster than the watch is displaying.
It's become so annoying, so I bought a Polar v800 which has fine-tuning for foot pods.

Still keeping Spartan Ultra for training and probably trail running, but I may find the Polar V800 is great for everything.

Here's hoping Suunto will add the fine-tune feature. I do like the Spartan Ultra high res screen.


----------



## Jaka83

-Laurie- said:


> So it can't fine-tune a measured distance.
> 
> As I have the Stryd pod I really need fine-tune calibration. Right now it's not much better than GPS, and I find that on my races they are measured long (like gps) so I have to workout that on average I need to run 4 secs faster than the watch is displaying.
> It's become so annoying, so I bought a Polar v800 which has fine-tuning for foot pods.
> 
> Still keeping Spartan Ultra for training and probably trail running, but I may find the Polar V800 is great for everything.
> 
> Here's hoping Suunto will add the fine-tune feature. I do like the Spartan Ultra high res screen.


I'm not a runner and don't own a footpod, so I can't help you there. On my bike I just use a power meter on my pedals and that works fine, for speed and distance I use GPS which works perfectly for me.
I do know that for hiking if I reset the watch it calibrates itself through cadence and GPS for steps and distance, but there is no manual adjustments for that and it just uses the internal accelerometer.


----------



## Egika

-Laurie- said:


> So it can't fine-tune a measured distance.
> 
> As I have the Stryd pod I really need fine-tune calibration. Right now it's not much better than GPS, and I find that on my races they are measured long (like gps) so I have to workout that on average I need to run 4 secs faster than the watch is displaying.
> It's become so annoying, so I bought a Polar v800 which has fine-tuning for foot pods.
> 
> Still keeping Spartan Ultra for training and probably trail running, but I may find the Polar V800 is great for everything.
> 
> Here's hoping Suunto will add the fine-tune feature. I do like the Spartan Ultra high res screen.


Can't you not fine tune your Stryd with their tool directly?


----------



## -Laurie-

Egika said:


> Can't you not fine tune your Stryd with their tool directly?


Unfortunately not, it's all done in the watch. https://support.stryd.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011125354-Can-I-fine-tune-the-accuracy-of-my-Stryd-

I've now got a Polar V800 and I'm really happy with it, ran 5 runs with it now.

It's old but suits the way I like to train.
> Tap for lap (like old Suunto Quest)
> I can see every data field (4 max)
> Auto laps don't interfere with manual laps (unlike the Spartan Ultra)
> You can create any type of custom sport mode, such as Duathlon (run, bike, run)
> I can fine-tune calibration of Stryd (got it down to 0.5 metre over a 1 mile distance (think I can get better)

Downsides:
Polarflow (don't like compared to movescount, but that's going so...)
Will miss the outer zone bands on the Ultra
Not as comfortable as Spartan Ultra
Charging clip is a nightmare


----------



## WaterfordWK

Does anyone have the firmware update file for 2.6.54

My work computer blocks my watch from connecting to Movescount via SuuntoLink, and haven't found a go-around as of yet.

Cheers!


----------



## -Laurie-

WaterfordWK said:


> Does anyone have the firmware update file for 2.6.54
> 
> My work computer blocks my watch from connecting to Movescount via SuuntoLink, and haven't found a go-around as of yet.
> 
> Cheers!


I'm not 100% on this but maybe the mobile app can update the new firmware.

I have my Spartan Ultra boxed now ready for sale, so can't test it.


----------



## orks

-Laurie- said:


> I'm not 100% on this but maybe the mobile app can update the new firmware.
> 
> I have my Spartan Ultra boxed now ready for sale, so can't test it.


I've done it with desktop Suunto link without issue.


----------



## magullo

-Laurie- said:


> I'm not 100% on this but maybe the mobile app can update the new firmware.
> 
> I have my Spartan Ultra boxed now ready for sale, so can't test it.


I got the notification on the app, but the link pointed to the website and instructions for Suunto Link. Still wonder what will happen when Movescount closes.


----------



## Egika

WaterfordWK said:


> Does anyone have the firmware update file for 2.6.54
> 
> My work computer blocks my watch from connecting to Movescount via SuuntoLink, and haven't found a go-around as of yet.
> 
> Cheers!


Sure:
Always download directly from the Suunto Server:

firmware.geo.movescount.com/production/Amsterdam-fw_2.6.54.7781-A.zip


----------



## Jaka83

magullo said:


> I got the notification on the app, but the link pointed to the website and instructions for Suunto Link. Still wonder what will happen when Movescount closes.


What do you mean? Movescount is just a WEB frontend for presenting the data from the server and has nothing to do with FW updates ... these are installed through SuuntoLink which is not going away. And by the postings on the Suunto App forum, they are working towards "cutting the cord" completely so we will probably get the updates through the Suunto App (OTA style) in the future. I personally don't like that too much because all sorts of errors can occur - OTA updates do work for Android, so let's see what happens.

There should be a big interface and feature update for the Suunto App if they are truly going to shut down Movescount and want the people to be happy with the services.


----------



## magullo

I had been a Garmin user for a long time, but last December I switched to a wonderful Ultra Titanium, thanks also to Christmas discounts. I started with Sport Tracker, and discovered Movescount too late, as I already customized sports on my watch, breaking backward compatibility. But I have to agree with everybody here, Movescount is way ahead of any other platform, being watchmakers' one or dedicated one (Strava, Endomondo to name a few). I hope they also keep the SuuntoLink application updated and don't force to use the smartphone as the only way to update.


----------



## Jaka83

magullo said:


> I had been a Garmin user for a long time, but last December I switched to a wonderful Ultra Titanium, thanks also to Christmas discounts. I started with Sport Tracker, and discovered Movescount too late, as I already customized sports on my watch, *breaking backward compatibility*. But I have to agree with everybody here, Movescount is way ahead of any other platform, being watchmakers' one or dedicated one (Strava, Endomondo to name a few). I hope they also keep the SuuntoLink application updated and don't force to use the smartphone as the only way to update.


You can still go back to Movescount. Just reset the watch (hard reset) and sync it with movescount via cable or mobile app. Then you can set it up to use Suunto App and Movescount together, just don't customize the watch screens through the Suunto App and use Movescount for custom sport modes. But the joy will probably only last until 2020 when they plan to shut down Movescount (I hope they don't).


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## paposeco

Hi guys,

I would really appreciate your help or at least your feedback.

I have and used for 2 years a Garmin Forerunner 230 and got a Suunto Spartan Ultra cause there was this crazy sale and I could use some of the extra perks for what I plan on doing in the near future.

I am having quite a bit of an issue with the step counter though. I know its merely an indicator but I just noticed today that it registers over 9k steps in a day the most I walked was from my car to the milk isle in the supermarket and then straight back.

I had a look at it and I swung my arm SLOWLY back and forth once and it registers 3 steps. I walked from the kitchen to the living room it counted almost 20 steps. (It was done with 4 steps).

My Garmin was pretty sharp and I know cause I used my phone to do the same with Samsung Health (or whatever it's called these days) and it matched almost perfectly.

Is there anything wrong with my brand new SSU, will anyone take me seriously if I try to have it RMA? It there any setting I can adjust? (I've looked!) Do I have to do some runs with it?
Before anyone asks yes I have the latest firmware.

This just happened and as soon as I noticed i came to the computer to write this post, halfway through it was midnight and the step counter is already giving me 3 steps. Sitting down writing this post.

Should I wear like one watch on each wrist and check? (Yes the step counter is kind of a big deal for me)

Thanks in advance for your time and help.

Best regards, Pedro.


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## magullo

I came from FR230 too and have an Ultra, now. Suunto definitely over estimates (a lot), in general I have to say that the Garmin is more accurate in both steps and activities. But Suunto has a way better screen, GPS is faster, supports more activities (I bought it for hiking, skiing and trial running), has a huge battery, barometric altitude and probably other features. 
Would I buy a Suunto again? Probably yes, especially for 9 Fused Track feature which seems helping accuracy a lot.


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## Jaka83

It looks like Suunto screwed up the indoor trainer (bike POD) readings with the latest update.

I've been off training for a while due to illness and have updated my watch during that time and last week I started training on my indoor trainer because the weather has just been bad here (cold and rainy). So I start my exercise and notice the speed and distance are not coming through to the watch. First I though the battery in the indoor trainer BT module was dead, so I took it out and probed it ... it was perfectly fine, but I replaced it anyway, just in case.
The thing is that the watch finds the BT module and pairs fine, I set the circumference and I am good to go, but the watch doesn't get any data from the BT module. It shows up at the start of the exercise together with my power meter and HR strap, but after starting, the data fields for speed and distance read zero and --.
The next thing I tried was factory resetting the watch - reflash FW and redo everything (pairing, settings, sport mode customizations etc.) but still nothing.
The speed and distance are not super important to me as it is not analog to outdoor training, but I would still like to have that data around.

I don't know who's idea it was to actually change something that worked perfectly fine before the update, but it is pi**ing me off.


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## gianky73

hi, after last firmware update my spartan ultra titanium often freezes after stopping the activity and saving the workout.
It remains with this screen:









i have to reset the watch pressing the upper button for about 10 secs.
Any solution? Anyone has this problem?
I had reflashed the firmware via movescount app (windows) but with no success.
thank you


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## kopis007

Yes, I have exactly same problem. 

Odesláno z mého VOG-L29 pomocí Tapatalk


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## Matus69

I have poor GPS after the June update... anybody else having such problem?


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## gousias

kopis007 said:


> Yes, I have exactly same problem.
> 
> Odesláno z mého VOG-L29 pomocí Tapatalk


Do you all guys, think that after all, it might not be such a good idea to update to latest firmware?


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## Jaka83

It has some new features, but too many bugs for me. And I think we won't see any more FW updates for the Spartan Ultra. Sad if it turns out to be true as it is a very competent watch hardware wise.


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## Egika

GPS quality is always depending on weather and surroundings etc.
I have seen no change in GPS quality since the latest update.
And I am sure there will be a new FW for Spartans soon. The Suunto 9 and 5 have just been updated. Spartan should be next line.


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## magullo

Suunto 9 added VO2 and other interesting features. Let’s hope. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gousias

magullo said:


> Suunto 9 added VO2 and other interesting features. Let's hope.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is there any limitation due to hardware in order for VO2 to be added in Spartan Sport?
In other words, could it be added only by a firmware update?


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## Jaka83

gousias said:


> Is there any limitation due to hardware in order for VO2 to be added in Spartan Sport?
> In other words, could it be added only by a firmware update?


I think Suunto has more problems with licencing to FirstBeat for VO2 calculations than hardware problems. They have all the data needed for the calculations, but the algorithm has a licence attached to it and that costs money for Suunto.
I don't know the details and this is purely speculation, but I think they won't invest any more time or money in the Spartan series of watches ... this includes the WHR models. They are focused on the S-line (S5, S9, ...).


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## miu

Hello someone please let me know is this Titanium or not


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