# Stowa spring releases?



## Frequent_Flieger

Any interesting ideas about what’s going to happen this watch release season? I know Stowa doesn’t do W&W but they normally have something new for the season. After the sale of the company there’s been very few new releases from them so we’re long overdue for something exciting. Any theories of what we will see?


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## Stowie

A new line would be awesome, especially with a new movements.


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## redhed18

Colour


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## JuNi

Wishfully a Sportwatch with integrated bracelet


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## Nokie

All of the above.....


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## gangrel

Stowie said:


> A new line would be awesome, especially with a new movements.


Are you thinking in-house, or sourcing something other than 2824/6498 clones? I'd love to see broader distribution of good-quality, mostly everyday movements.


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## Stowie

gangrel said:


> Are you thinking in-house, or sourcing something other than 2824/6498 clones? I'd love to see broader distribution of good-quality, mostly everyday movements.



Honestly anything new would be nice. I’m not big on the clone movements. A new in house movement would sell like hot cakes. I know I’d immediately pick one up. Doesn’t Tempus Arte own a movement manufacturer? So it may not be impossible such a change could happen.


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## StufflerMike

Stowie said:


> Honestly anything new would be nice. I’m not big on the clone movements. A new in house movement would sell like hot cakes. I know I’d immediately pick one up. Doesn’t Tempus Arte own a movement manufacturer? So it may not be impossible such a change could happen.


Tempus Arte does indeed own a movement manufacturer, UWD - Uhren Werke Dresden. With those high-end movements a Stowa would be priced like a Lang & Heyne or Leinfelder watch. That‘s not what Stowa will be about. That‘s not why Tempus Arte bought Stowa. I‘d be surprised if we see a „basic“ in-house movement made by UWD in any Stowa. But, hey, everything is possible.


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## Frequent_Flieger

…. crickets…. it seems odd to me that Stowa has been so quiet lately


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## Stowie

Frequent_Flieger said:


> …. crickets…. it seems odd to me that Stowa has been so quiet lately


Are you reffering to their social media presence or that their have been no new releases?

I was looking forward to a new release that might have a twist. Instead of the normal Stowa color change/part swap.


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## Frequent_Flieger

Stowie said:


> Are you reffering to their social media presence or that their have been no new releases?


Anything really… no new colors, no new models, no spring releases, and very little on Instagram and here. Just seems abnormally quiet


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## flyingpicasso

Frequent_Flieger said:


> Anything really… no new colors, no new models, no spring releases, and very little on Instagram and here. Just seems abnormally quiet


I sense a loss of momentum as well. Hopefully things will pick up and innovation will replace stagnation.


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## Roningrad

I eagerly await what is yet to come from Stowa. For now, it seems Sinn is where my next fancy would be.


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## Mister X

Hope they don’t just jump on the colored dial bandwagon, would rather they build on their aviation heritage but looking to the future. Aerospace maybe?


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## Stowie

It’s s lot to ask, but a whole new line would be cool.


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## StufflerMike

Stowie said:


> It’s s lot to ask, but a whole new line would be cool.


Spring 2025.


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## brainless

I don't mind at all. My favorite Stowa watches were built until spring 1976 and earlier:














































Volker ;-)


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## mattcantwin

I would love to see a new diver design.


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## el_duderino

Frequent_Flieger said:


> Anything really… no new colors, no new models, no spring releases, and very little on Instagram and here. Just seems abnormally quiet


Indeed eerily quiet. It's like Stowa is in a state of paralysis now that Jörg is gone. That's not good.


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## Stowie

Would be nice if Stowa saw this thread and decided to drop a small hint at a future LE or something. At least a indication something is in the works.


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## Orsoni

The new logo went over like New Coke.

Time to resurrect the old logo. at least on the Marine Original


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## StufflerMike

Here‘s their first spring release:

__
http://instagr.am/p/Cd5v0VaNg8u/

A new strap ? Really ? Disappointing.


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## Stowie

StufflerMike said:


> Here‘s their first spring release:
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Cd5v0VaNg8u/
> 
> A new strap ? Really ? Disappointing.


I was going to post that as a meme right after I saw it. Glad I’m not the only one thinking it.


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## el_duderino

Stowie said:


> Would be nice if Stowa saw this thread and decided to drop a small hint at a future LE or something. At least a indication something is in the works.


The fact that this board is still called Jörg Schauer & Stowa indicates that there's either no interest anymore by Stowa in this forum or that there's some "unfortunate things" going on behind the curtains between the two. The divorce might not be as amicable as they claim.


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## StufflerMike

el_duderino said:


> The fact that this board is still called Jörg Schauer & Stowa indicates that there's either no interest anymore by Stowa in this forum or that there's some "unfortunate things" going on behind the curtains between the two. The divorce might not be as amicable as they claim.


Stowa and Stowa’s CEO is still interested in this forum. I had a phone call with Stowa‘s CEO some weeks ago and sent him the necessary contact details, I also e-mailed WUS Admin to get things on track. Unfortunately nothing happened since then. However, I prefer not to participate in rumors and assumptions.


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## el_duderino

StufflerMike said:


> ... some weeks ago ... Unfortunately nothing happened since then. However, I prefer not to participate in rumors and assumptions.


Understandable. Though maybe somebody with authority should kindly remind them again about the existence of this forum and inform them about growing concerns / suspicions within the community? Right now with the old captain gone Stowa is looking a bit like a ghost ship, floating idly on the horizon without any real sign of life.


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## jhdscript

Actually the principal issue with Stowa is the increased price :-(


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## StufflerMike

jhdscript said:


> Actually the principal issue with Stowa is the increased price :-(


Stowa prices increased. So what. Damasko prices increased. Sinn prices increase on a yearly basis, almost. Union prices increased. Rolex, PP prices increased. Zenith announced an increase of 5%. Electricity and heat, food (+17% to 29,8% in April), gas, diesel, used cars, labour costs increased. I do not see a principal issue with Stowa though.


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## el_duderino

jhdscript said:


> Actually the principal issue with Stowa is the increased price :-(


Unfortunately but unavoidable these days. And they announced way back in november last year that prices would go up in 2022. So people had the chance to still buy at the old price for several weeks.


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## Orsoni

I’m sure if wholesale changes had been announced, there would have been a thread with the word “Pitchforks” in the title 😁

I’m inclined towards giving the new owners time to suss things out. With several icons like the Marine Original…they probably want to be careful they don’t mess up a good thing by throwing out the baby with the bath water


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## el_duderino

Orsoni said:


> …they probably want to be careful they don’t mess up a good thing by throwing out the baby with the bath water


Absolutely. It's going to be difficult to move on with new models and changes in the current lineup.

But at they very least they could stop by and say hello. After all this is (was? / is supposed to be?) the official Stowa forum. And yet all the communication in connection with the sale of the company, Jörg leaving and everything has been posted by Jörg. Not one word from Stowa. It looks like either the new owners want nothing to do with this forum or the community or there's some controversy between Jörg and Stowa about who "owns" this forum.


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## brainless

Now we know, that Joerg left a void when he parted from Stowa. It's a pity that there seems to be nobody who consents to fill in for him.
Stowa is more than a one-man show - but they need a person leading and inspiring them, a person who knows what customer-relationship means.
In hopes that the gap can be filled soon,


Volker


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## Orsoni

Companies are impersonal.

If a customer has an issue, Stowa already has a web page with a live help desk during working hours. I can envision a CEO thinking that is a cost efficient customer relations system.

I doubt that maintaining a web presence on WUS is on the radar of a CEO


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## el_duderino

Orsoni said:


> Companies are impersonal.
> ...
> I doubt that maintaining a web presence on WUS is on the radar of a CEO


Sure. But Stowa as in Jörg Schauer's Stowa was - or at least felt - certainly different in this regard. That made Stowa unique and appealing. If the new owners don't realize that this was an important pillar of Stowa's success and run it like any other brand with no ear for or interest in the community from now on, then I struggle to see a bright future for Stowa. 

We know this forum is on the CEO's radar, since StufflerMike talked about it with him. Otherwise it would come on his radar eventually when going through the books, since keeping the forum on WUS costs money. No CEO that I know of likes spending money for something unnecessary, no matter how tiny the amount. If they don't care about the "official" forum at all, it might be better to shut it down.


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## StufflerMike

Orsoni said:


> Companies are impersonal….
> I doubt that maintaining a web presence on WUS is on the radar of a CEO


STOWA never was impersonal. Jörg would never have allowed this. How personal Stowa was was clearly felt at the annual events.
Maintaing the presence n WUS is on the radar of the current CEO. I learned this from a phone call I had with him some time ago.


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## Stowie

StufflerMike said:


> STOWA never was impersonal. Jörg would never have allowed this. How personal Stowa was was clearly felt at the annual events.
> Maintaing the presence n WUS is on the radar of the current CEO. I learned this from a phone call I had with him some time ago.


I second this. I asked a question to the customer service rep once about my TO2 and he has Jorg email me back. He even signed the box the watch came in.


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## Djurgården

el_duderino said:


> Indeed eerily quiet. It's like Stowa is in a state of paralysis now that Jörg is gone. That's not good.


Yep.. sad. Longer delivery times as well and not much information anywhere. Jörg used to write on this forum. Big difference.


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## Djurgården

StufflerMike said:


> Stowa prices increased. So what. Damasko prices increased. Sinn prices increase on a yearly basis, almost. Union prices increased. Rolex, PP prices increased. Zenith announced an increase of 5%. Electricity and heat, food (+17% to 29,8% in April), gas, diesel, used cars, labour costs increased. I do not see a principal issue with Stowa though.


You're right. 

BUT the price increase came just after Jörg left. And since he left the brand has gone downhill SO FAR. If you up the price and then go "......." it's not the best buisness thing to to imo.


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## StufflerMike

Djurgården said:


> You're right.
> 
> BUT the price increase came just after Jörg left. And since he left the brand has gone downhill SO FAR. If you up the price and then go "......." it's not the best buisness thing to to imo.


Stowa have to compensate acquisition costs, the price increase has nothing to do with Jörg leaving. Just a coincidence. Swiss suppliers increased prices for parts and they don't give a f..k who leaves a company, when and why. 
And, sorry, I don‘t see the brand going downhill. There‘s less traffic here on the forum but this does not correlate with the „health“ of Stowa as a company. Stowa is currently looking for watchmakers for production and service. Downhill ? Doesn‘t look like.


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## Orsoni

Not sure I would want to deal with a forum full of raging watchoholics

Perhaps some entry level employees can be cajoled into manning the ramparts, so to speak😁


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## el_duderino

StufflerMike said:


> Stowa is currently looking for watchmakers for production and service. Downhill ? Doesn‘t look like.


Are you referring to this JPG? I don't think that's an actual job offer. That JPG has been a permanent feature of the "philosophy" section of the website for years and is only there as an example to show that they support the local workforce.

But they are indeed looking for a new Meister as future head of the workshop.


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## StufflerMike

el_duderino said:


> Are you referring to this JPG? I don't think that's an actual job offer. That JPG has been a permanent feature of the "philosophy" section of the website for years and is only there as an example to show that they support the local workforce.


No.



> But they are indeed looking for a new Meister as future head of the workshop.


Logical, the current CEO isn‘t a watchmaker afaik.


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## Djurgården

StufflerMike said:


> Stowa have to compensate acquisition costs, the price increase has nothing to do with Jörg leaving. Just a coincidence. Swiss suppliers increased prices for parts and they don't give a f..k who leaves a company, when and why.
> And, sorry, I don‘t see the brand going downhill. There‘s less traffic here on the forum but this does not correlate with the „health“ of Stowa as a company. Stowa is currently looking for watchmakers for production and service. Downhill ? Doesn‘t look like.


How do you know that? What's your source that it's just an "coincidence"?

With "downhill" I'm meaning lack of communication, lack of new models and especially late deliveries etc. Stuff that puts people away from brands. But only time will tell.


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## el_duderino

Djurgården said:


> How do you know that? What's your source that it's just an "coincidence"?


May I quote from the (German) Newsletter regarding the Stowa advent calendar from 30th of November 2021 (automatically translated from German to English with DeepL):

_"On the other hand, we - like probably all our competitors - will have to increase our prices from 01.01.2022 to compensate for the increased purchase prices of our components. Unfortunately, this step is now necessary because we have kept our prices constant for a long time. Often we still had good stocks, which we purchased at better prices. But now the partly heavy price increases for currently new orders from our suppliers make a price adjustment necessary."_

Of course what they say in a newsletter and the truth might be two separate things, but here I don't see any reason to doubt that the purchase prices are indeed the main reason. Virtually everybody from any industry can confirm massively increased purchase prices in the last 12 months.


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## Stowie

Since I bought my first Stowa in 2017 or so, I have seen a price increase email every year since. Makes me sad but its not unexpected, as long as its reasonable.


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## Exuberant

Nothing exciting but kinda new...


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## StufflerMike

Exuberant said:


> Nothing exciting but kinda new...


Only „kinda new“, you are right, was launched 05/2021, not a spring release 2022.


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## Stowie

A re-release of one of their vintage divers would be incredible. That would sell like hot cakes.


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## el_duderino

Stowie said:


> A re-release of one of their vintage divers would be incredible. That would sell like hot cakes.


At this point ANY new release would be incredible.


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## Stowie

At this point I don’t think we are going to see any releases. A reply from Stowa teasing a suprise later in the year or a simple “Sorry we can’t this year due to the changes at Stowa” would suffice IMO. 


el_duderino said:


> At this point ANY new release would be incredible.


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## el_duderino

Every time I visit the Stowa website it gets more depressing. Not only is there no new releases, but nothing gets updated. According to the website "Jörg Schauer develops and constructs every preproduction model of the STOWA and Schauer collections himself". The history still ends with "Takeover by Jörg Schauer". 

It really looks like they didn't prepare at all for the day that Jörg leaves the company. The captain is gone, nobody knows what to do.


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## Bhanu Chopra

I think with German watch companies changes happen over time and slowly. I am confident by the end of the year both Joerg for Schauer brand and Stowa will communicate about new things. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brainless

Hello Bhanu,
I agree with you regarding Jörg, but I am dubious about Stowa. Currently they don't communicate at all. No posts here, no inspiring newsletter in our mail accounts, no new models. In Germany we call it _Totenstille - _dead silence.
Hopefully this is a misjudgement,


Volker


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## el_duderino

Bhanu Chopra said:


> I think with German watch companies changes happen over time and slowly.


Jörg stayed in the company for 8 (!) months after the sale. Quite frankly, if his departure had been scheduled then they would have prepared for it during that time. With updates for the website and all, to have a smooth and clean transition. German companies are not known for a relaxed laissez-faire approach but for Teutonic thoroughness.

Everything about the timeline and how things went down is telling me that things didn't play out as intended. The divorce was quite likely - at least in the end - not exactly amicable. The other alternatives don't sound much better: either the new owners actually don't care about Stowa at all or they have much bigger problems right now and simply can't afford to work on the brand. All three options are equally good reasons to keep quiet and not to engage with the watch community - even here, in the official Stowa forum.


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## StufflerMike

Bhanu Chopra said:


> I think with German watch companies changes happen over time and slowly. I am confident by the end of the year both Joerg for Schauer brand and Stowa will communicate about new things.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, I am not that optimistic but I like to be surprised.


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## Gargamel35

It's really a shame. Stowa was one of THE brands in under 1k segment. We could even expand that to 1,5k where it was very competitive.


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## brainless

We talk about the brand, but we shouldn't forget the people we are commending because of their customer service and their accuracy in building our watches. A company is not only interest and cost, but also a place for people to earn their living. 
I don't care about the management, I'm worried about their watchmakers and their in-house staff,


Volker


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## el_duderino

brainless said:


> We talk about the brand, but we shouldn't forget the people we are commending because of their customer service and their accuracy in building our watches. A company is not only interest and cost, but also a place for people to earn their living.


The brand is the key for them keeping their jobs. If people turn their backs on Stowa in return for Stowa turning it's back on the community, then it'll get indeed very difficult for the staff.

I'd say the main reason why Stowa always punched well above it's weight class was the fact that they earned a reputation for being extraordinarily personal and closely connected to the community. Jörg Schauer always had an open ear for the community online and offline and in a way personally vouched for the quality of the watches. There was always the impression that there's someone running the show who's not just a manager looking to maximize profit but someone who was honestly passionate about the products and cared about the customers.

So far the new owners show no interest whatsoever in preserving that long earned reputation. I'm not sure whether they realize what a gem Stowa really is. Sure, they can't pull another Jörg out of a hat, so Stowa becoming more "normal" is inevitable. But they should at least try to keep the community connection going to preserve as much of Stowa's (as in Jörg Schauer's Stowa) reputation as possible.


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## StufflerMike

brainless said:


> We talk about the brand, but we shouldn't forget the people we are commending because of their customer service and their accuracy in building our watches. A company is not only interest and cost, but also a place for people to earn their living.
> I don't care about the management, I'm worried about their watchmakers and their in-house staff,
> 
> 
> Volker


I care about the management. If the management is no good, then all the nice people at Stowa are in danger. That worries.


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## brainless

A misunderstanding should be cleared:
I don't care what will happen to the management - but I'm worried about the staff's future,


Volker


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## el_duderino

brainless said:


> I don't care what will happen to the management - but I'm worried about the staff's future,


Well the new management, Prof. Dr. Rohde and Mr. Gutierrez Diaz (the latter most likely being the acting day to day manager), is located in Munich and won't be affected by the fate of Stowa, that's for sure. Kevin Müller as the person in charge on location in Engelsbrand is part of the staff and probably just following orders from Munich.

Stowa as a company (STOWA GmbH & Co. KG) ceased to exist in March 2022. Since then Stowa isn't a company anymore but a mere brand name used by Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG (until 2013 named Innovative Adaptive Consulting GmbH & Co. KG). According to the commercial register Tempus Arte's business is "Beratung auf dem Gebiet der Hochfrequenz- und Nachrichtentechnik" [Consulting in the field of high frequency and communications engineering]. Looks like somebody at Tempus Arte forgot to file an update on that when renaming and repurposing the Innovative Adaptive Consulting GmbH & Co. KG - 9 years ago. Generally Tempus Arte is very secretive company with little to no information on their financial situation publicly available. So far they have never even once released a financial report with the German Bundesanzeiger. [Update:] Surprisingly at least until the fiscal year 2020 (1.1.2020 - 31.12.2020) Tempus Arte was tiny enough to be considered a *micro-corporation* (Section 276a German Commercial Code) and therefore not required to publish it's annual financial statements in the Bundesanzeiger.

So far it's pretty safe to say that their brand Stowa is not exactly a top priority for Tempus Arte


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## Gargamel35

Looks like Stowa just got orders to keep producing existing watches but they have no authority to develop new models, invest in advertising, etc. 

I really wonder why was the company sold. Did it have financial problems or did Mr. Schauer simply want to move on, because Stowa became too big. Fresh money, more free time, anyones dream really.


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## StufflerMike

brainless said:


> A misunderstanding should be cleared:
> I don't care what will happen to the management - but I'm worried about the staff's future,
> 
> 
> Volker


Just in case of a misunderstanding.
Unfortunately the staff‘s future is directly linked to the future of the enthroned management. I said it before and I say it again, Tempus Arte and Stowa do not match. The current management created kind of a vacuum coupled with a certain vagueness and that‘s something customers do not like. Staff can‘t change this, management can.
I would very much like to hear from Stowa that the sales figures have not fallen in the last year, but unfortunately this does not seem to be the case. I don't have to explain here what declining sales can mean.


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## Gargamel35

StufflerMike said:


> Just in case of a misunderstanding.
> Unfortunately the staff‘s future is directly linked to the future of the enthroned management. I said it before and I say it again, Tempus Arte and Stowa do not match. The current management created kind of a vacuum coupled with a certain vagueness and that‘s something customers do not like. Staff can‘t change this, management can.
> I would very much like to hear from Stowa that the sales figures have not fallen in the last year, but unfortunately this does not seem to be the case. I don't have to explain here what declining sales can mean.


Unless the new owner wants to close the company down as quickly as possible. In that case i understand the silence. Produce what's left to produce, sell the inventory, move/fire people, sell the equipment and use the building for something else, rent it or sell it also. 

If not, the silence is hurting the company. There is management, sales people, support people, manufacturing department. It's a small company and i'm sure they know what their sales points are (internet only, couple forums, that's it). You need one man only to deal with all of that, to reassure potential watch buyers all is good. To put some teasers out. Anything really. So i simply don't understand it. Unless, Stowa is going towards shutdown or complete change.


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## el_duderino

Gargamel35 said:


> ..., the silence is hurting the company.


That's exactly the problem. By doing nothing they are killing the hard earned reputation - the most valuable thing about Stowa. A reputation built over 30 years and they are just throwing it away.

There might be perfectly good reasons why they are unable to make any noticeable move right now like releasing new models. Maybe the divorce with Jörg turned ugly and there's lawsuits about IP rights or whatever going on, maybe they are themselves in financial trouble (after all, times are not exactly easy these days and Arte Tempus seems a bit sketchy anyway) and just can't afford to spend money on the brand, ... who knows.

But the reality is, they could easily stop the train from derailing by simply being open and engaging with the community - in other words: by just being Stowa as people know and love. Saying hello here and talking a bit about the future of Stowa doesn't cost a thing. Yet nobody at Tempus Arte seems to care.

@StufflerMike: If it hasn't happened yet, maybe it's time for one last attempt of somebody from WUS with authority contacting Kevin Müller and Mr. Gutierrez Diaz to remind them again of the existence of this forum (which after all they pay money for) - with a hint that people here are getting highly suspicious about the situation. If that doesn't wake them up, then I suppose we can give up, move on and let Stowa rest in piece.


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## Gargamel35

Well for what is worth, Tempus Arte owns five brands right now. Two are niche watchmakers, known in their circles, watches are very expensive (Lang & Heyne, Leinfelder). The third is Rolex customization company Blaken. They customize your Rolex - again very expensive. Fourth is UWD which produce watch parts (i have no idea if this is an avtive company and for who they work for). Fifth is now Stowa that produces and sells watches in much lower price range then anything else Tempe owns. 

Shady or not, Tempe has a lot of track record in buying watch related companies. I have a feeling they don't really interfere in day to day business of these companies. They set new management (or even confirm the old one) and let them be. 

The truth is no one really knows what is going on. There are maybe huge problems in supply chain, maybe Mr. Schauer burned some bridges while leaving and now they are scrambling to keep up the production alone and are in no position to advertise (it would bring more sales that they can't produce) or even work on new designs. What if key personel decided to leave with Mr. Schauer, etc.


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## el_duderino

For those interested in Stowa history: the now dissolved Stowa GmbH & Co. KG was owned by Jörg Schauer (75% limited partner's share) and Vorwerk Direct Selling Ventures GmbH (25% limited partner's share), a venture capital fund owned by the Vorwerk Group from Wuppertal (famous in Germany for vacuum cleaners). So Stowa had a very powerful investor.

Mr. Gutierrez Diaz previously worked as general manager at Richemont Northern Europe GmbH (like Tempus Arte located in Munich) and joined Tempus Arte in September 2021. So a Richemont guy now heads the humble little watch brand Stowa - not exactly the best fit 

[Update] Ok, the puzzle pieces are falling together. As updated above Tempus Arte was at least until 31.12.2020 tiny enough to be legally considered a micro-corporation. In 2021 they acquired Stowa and got the guy from Richemont as the new manager. Looks like they just over a year ago started bundling their different brands and businesses within the Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG - a process that might be still be going on to this day. That might explain why things are so sluggish - they are quite likely just busy with themselves. Maybe they should have made a plan how things are supposed to work out beforehand. One day they might be finished with whatever they are occupied with, take a look at their brands and be shocked to find one or more of them to have died from neglect.


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## StufflerMike

UWD was a Spin-Off of Lang & Heyne, the Sinn Meisterbund I had a UWD movement.










Degussa used the UWD 33.1 for the LE Palladium (25 pieces) in 2016. Leinfelder‘s L-H01 is a UWD movement.


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## Frequent_Flieger

Keep the information coming! The silence I noticed a few months ago has been getting louder and more difficult for everyone here to ignore. I am not as knowledgeable on Stowas business climate as many of you, but I followed the brand closely for years on all channels and have never seen things this quiet. 
Another thing I have wondered is where Jörg is heading with his brand and if he may have taken some valuable staff along with him. If he earned 75% of Stowa’s sale price, that would’ve freed up a fair amount of capital to invest into building his own brand. Looking back, he was extremely clear about the separation of Schauer watches from Stowa watches. Where before the brands were closely linked, Jörg definitely no longer wanted links between them.


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## el_duderino

Frequent_Flieger said:


> If he earned 75% of Stowa’s sale price, that would’ve freed up a fair amount of capital to invest into building his own brand.


The percentage of limited partner's shares does not necessarily go hand in hand with a corresponding distribution of profits. So that's all just speculation. What we know for sure is that Stowa had a reputable and powerful investor for many years and up to the sale to Tempus Arte.



Frequent_Flieger said:


> Looking back, he was extremely clear about the separation of Schauer watches from Stowa watches. Where before the brands were closely linked, Jörg definitely no longer wanted links between them.


That makes me wonder whether we are - with regards to the silence in this forum - barking up the wrong tree. After all, this forum is named "Jörg Schauer & STOWA", not "STOWA & Jörg Schauer". Jörg might consider it his forum and simply not let Stowa use it (especially if there's fighting going on behind the curtains between the two) 

But then again Stowa is generally in a comatose state right now, so it probably wouldn't make a difference if they had the key to the castle or not. They're obviously not able and/or willing to engage with the community.


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## el_duderino

el_duderino said:


> Looks like they just over a year ago started bundling their different brands and businesses within the Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG - a process that might be still be going on to this day.


Further evidence for the theory of Tempus Arte being busy with themselves (re)organizing their little watch empire:

Leinfelder Uhren München was until February 2022 still an independent company (Leinfelder Uhren München GmbH & Co. KG).

Lang & Heyne was also until February 2022 still an independent company (Uhrenmanufaktur Lang & Heyne GmbH & Co. KG).

Stowa as an independent company ceased to exist in March 2022, as already mentioned earlier.

The process of absorbing and bundling their different watch companies into the Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG is quite likely still going on to this day.


----------



## foxl

Please finde an article in german where an Outlook of the Tempus arte „Holding“ is beeing given by the CEO: 

expand internationally and develop new products 



https://de.watchpro.com/die-tempus-arte-gruppe-stellt-sich-neu-auf/?amp=


----------



## el_duderino

foxl said:


> Please finde an article in german where an Outlook of the Tempus arte „Holding“ …


I smell *big* problems within Tempus Arte. Absorbing Leinfelder into Tempus Arte in February and then just a few months later in June spitting it out again? Doesn’t make sense at all. Same as Jörg suddenly splitting from Stowa apparently over night and leaving a giant vacuum behind with no apparent preparation for the post-Jörg era whatsoever. Things are clearly not going as planned.

I hope I’m wrong but if I had to place a bet I’d say they’re going belly up soon. The Tempus Arte ship is sinking before it even left the harbour …

To further elaborate on my suspicion: Leinfelder Uhren München (a brand virtually unknown outside of Munich) is the favorite toy of Prof. Dr. Rohde. So what would he (like everybody else in his position - this is not a personal attack) first do when the Tempus Arte watch empire doesn't get off the ground and is about to hit the wall? Get the favorite toy out of there before it's too late! Exactly what appears to happening right now. Trying to save his favorite toy from the hands of the insolvency administrator. Where is smoke, there's fire. And there's a lot of smoke here.


----------



## foxl

Stowa sent Out aNewsletter…
More or Less a Signal that they recogniced This Thread


----------



## Djurgården

Spring is obviously over. But today they sent out a newsletter, basically just them saying: hey Stowa turns 95 years this year. But better than nothing.


----------



## el_duderino

Djurgården said:


> today they sent out a newsletter, basically just them saying: hey Stowa turns 95 years this year. But better than nothing.


That's indeed all the information of the entire newsletter. In other words: "we have absolutely nothing at all to show for".

The desperation is almost tangible. I feel really sorry for the former Stowa (now Tempus Arte) employees.


----------



## StufflerMike

At least they are ready to host the watchtime.net tourists on their Black Forest tour (Junghans, Hanhart, Lehmann, Laco and Stowa) in July.


----------



## el_duderino

StufflerMike said:


> At least they are ready to host the watchtime.net tourists on their Black Forest tour (Junghans, Hanhart, Lehmann, Laco and Stowa) in July.


Are you going to join the tour? If you do, please interrogate the folks at Tempus Arte thoroughly!


----------



## CM HUNTER

Haven't been interested in Stowa for a long time as I saw way more value in other German brands. Between the new logo, and now new ownership, it seems those that were diehard Stowa or nothing may finally have to appreciate the brands they turned a blind eye to for so long. It's a shame it takes something this drastic happening to a brand for that to take place.

As a historical German watch brand, I really hope Stowa finds it's way. I didn't think a one man show was it, and I don't think a mini-conglomerate is it either. I always admired the multi-generational brands. Or at least a true watchmaker at the helm of his own creation. Seems there is more passion for the product.


----------



## zharik

I was watching and enjoying Stowa for years. But for various reasons I never had a chance to buy a watch from them. This May I finally decided that I want a Stowa watch before I potentially loose a chance to get it.

I wanted to get something developed in the very late period of cooperation between Stowa and Jörg. So, I ordered a customized Marine Klassik 36 Handwound. Well, despite the order was fully handled under the new legal entity, everything was extremely smooth. Quality is still top notch and all my asks were taken into account.

I hope Stowa will find their new way, fingers crossed.


----------



## StufflerMike

el_duderino said:


> Are you going to join the tour? If you do, please interrogate the folks at Tempus Arte thoroughly!


Nope, tour is way to expensive and since I know all/most of the CEO‘s I can do a tour of my own much cheaper😂😂


----------



## The Geezer

There is now some talk of anniversary models in the newsletter, and I would like them to get their mojo back in a bigger way, one quick and easy trick would be a set of limited dials with the old logo - say 25 of each for Marine Orginal, Antea KS and Flieger Ikarus. Very little cost and danger in that and would be a suitable anniversary marker. 
More ambitious and more appealing (to some) would be to go back and find one or two watches from each decade in the museum and do a limited rerun of 25 pieces of each.
Sadly I don't think they will do either though. I think they will just introduce another Flieger with orange lume and engrave 95 on the side or back.


----------



## el_duderino

The Leinfelder Uhren München website has been updated. It now shows in German the following (automatic translation by deepl):

_Leinfelder Watches Munich now Tempus Arte

The Leinfelder watch brand rights have been returned to Goldsmith E. Leinfelder as of July 1, 2022. The current projects and competences of "Leinfelder Watches Munich" have been taken over and continued in the other brands of the Tempus Arte Group.

The usual personal, cordial and expert advice, combined with our professional customer and watch service for your "Leinfelder Watches Munich" timepiece, will of course remain available to our customers in the future at the following address:

[...]

About Tempus Arte:

The following renowned brands are united under the umbrella of the Tempus Arte Group:

the watch manufactory "Lang & Heyne Dresden" (langheyne.de)
the traditional watch manufacturer "STOWA" (stowa.de)
the watch movement manufactory "Uhren-Werke-Dresden" (uhren-werke.de)
furthermore, Tempus Arte has a share in "BLAKEN", which specializes in customization (blaken.com)

"Diverse competences and craftsmanship, diverse price segments and marketing concepts are united in Tempus Arte and form a solid foundation for a small but agile German watch group," says owner and proprietor Prof. Dr. Ulrich L. Rohde.

Alexander Gutierrez Diaz, Managing Director of the Tempus Arte Group, adds: "Our goal is to grow more internationally in the coming years with our traditional and renowned brands Lang & Heyne, STOWA, BLAKEN and Uhren-Werke-Dresden and to expand our product range in a more concentrated way." _

Small and agile. Where did I hear that before? Oh, yeah, that was almost exactly one year ago, when the Tempus Arte empire was announced as a “sympathetic, agile German group with ambitions that responsibly faces the challenges of the future”.

So far they used the first year of being an "agile German group with ambitions" to successfully transform Stowa into a coma patient and to save the trademarks of Leinfelder Uhren - being Prof. Dr. Rohde's favorite toy - from the hands of the insolvency administrator.

By the way Leinfelder had no competences to begin with that could be continued by Tempus Arte. Leinfelder sold very basic ETA powered watches with not exactly mainstream compatible bavarian / Munich-inspired designs (and rather outrageous price tags). So Leinfelder was objectively irrelevant, they most likely just used it to visually inflate Tempus Arte's size. More brands just look more impressive. Luckily for us, since in a way it worked as the canary in the coalmine foreshadowing what's next for the rest of the group.


----------



## foxl

Newsletter is out, a oddly Looking old Logo Version of Flieger Verus has been given Birth


----------



## Djurgården

Flieger Verus 40 Vintage 95 Limited | Uhrenmanufaktur seit 1927


Flieger Verus 40 Vintage 95 Limited - Onlineshop für Uhren, Onlinevertrieb Uhren,Direktvertrieb Uhr.




www.stowa.de


----------



## foxl

Looks like a nicotine Tinted Version with orange hands…

Logo font is stretched to a uncommonly height….Maybe to Reflect the corresponding Price Tag….


----------



## brainless

First:
I like the return to the genuine logo
Second:
The dial seems to be ill with dispensable words
Third (and summarized):
It is just the contrary to Joerg's concept

*This* is the result of months of prudent considerations??

I feel sad,


Volker


----------



## Gargamel35

Djurgården said:


> Flieger Verus 40 Vintage 95 Limited | Uhrenmanufaktur seit 1927
> 
> 
> Flieger Verus 40 Vintage 95 Limited - Onlineshop für Uhren, Onlinevertrieb Uhren,Direktvertrieb Uhr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.stowa.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16739434


This is just sad. A bad variation of an old model.


----------



## Djurgården

Idk. I think it looks kind of cool. Not for me because I don't like C3 or old radium (that's why I have a regular verus) but still kind of cool.

This is interesting "*Our first *Anniversary model for the 95th Anniversary. " So might be more?

More pics:


----------



## el_duderino

foxl said:


> Logo font is stretched to a uncommonly height….Maybe to Reflect the corresponding Price Tag….


Indeed. The logo looks very awkward. And that "Since 1927" is terrible, especially on a flieger, especially in that font.

Looks like they couldn't afford to hire a designer.


----------



## el_duderino

And they got around to finally update the website at least a little bit: Stowa history 1927 - 2022

Kevin, are you secretly following this thread?


----------



## Frequent_Flieger

Glad I’m not alone. They’re adding fuel to the fire with this release. The proportions are completely wrong. The balance of the dial elements that the Verus model represented is completely thrown off with an incorrectly sized logo and unnecessary text in the wrong font.
The case, color, all things we’ve seen before but that dial has no balance and almost looks like a fake Stowa. What is happening here?


----------



## el_duderino

Frequent_Flieger said:


> Glad I’m not alone. They’re adding fuel to the fire with this release. The proportions are completely wrong. The balance of the dial elements that the Verus model represented is completely thrown off with an incorrectly sized logo and unnecessary text in the wrong font.
> The case, color, all things we’ve seen before but that dial has no balance and almost looks like a fake Stowa. What is happening here?


Harsh, but it's difficult to disagree. I have a pretty good idea of what's going on. When you don't have the funds to hire a designer for a new product, then the boss (or some unpaid intern) has to do it by himself. The results then usually look like ... this watch. Fortunately it's a limited edition.


----------



## StufflerMike

Nice, but not nice enough to pull the trigger, looks like „wanted to“ but „not able to“. Money saved.


----------



## foxl

el_duderino said:


> then the boss (or some unpaid intern)


----------



## Orsoni

I really like the new/old logo


----------



## The Geezer

I really like the old logo, as I have mentioned here once or twice before, but this looks like stretched text in Word. All the other text is not necessary and get in the way. I thought they would go orange with the lume. 
I hope they do a marine original thatjust looks like, it came off the production line in 2008 or so. Brushed steel, blued hands, correctly scaled old logo. 
if you already like Stowa, you don’t need a label on it to remind yourself that it’s an anniversary or anything. It’s like the reproductions you can buy in big museums with the artist’s name over the picture, helpfully and reassuringly, just in case you forgot it was a Raphael… For Stowa watches, you like the old original logo as it functions in size, scale, position and proportion like part of the design. It worked, don’t try to change it.


----------



## indygreg

Frequent_Flieger said:


> Glad I’m not alone. They’re adding fuel to the fire with this release. The proportions are completely wrong. The balance of the dial elements that the Verus model represented is completely thrown off with an incorrectly sized logo and unnecessary text in the wrong font.
> The case, color, all things we’ve seen before but that dial has no balance and almost looks like a fake Stowa. What is happening here?


Its pretty hideous. 

Sent from my LE2125 using Tapatalk


----------



## redhed18

(_rolls up the sleeves.._.)
angry words.
that is all.


----------



## redhed18

Does anyone even know where the "Verus" name comes from?

It seems weird to put the model name on the dial when there is zero information what it means or what history that implies. At least I've never seen anything...


----------



## leapinglizard

It's actually a fairly handsome piece in my mind, although I do agree the Stowa wording does seem a bit off. I'm going to hold off on this one and hope for a marine with the old logo


----------



## frank_be

The old logo has been narrowed in width or stretched in height; anyway the aspect ratio is not correct. And it sits screaming on the dial; it is way too prominent.
The bauhaus font the used for the small lettering does not do any good on this dial. It doesn't match with anything.
The radium look of the hands does not match the radium look on the dial print. The hands look more brown/darker
The modern verus dial was perfect from the start. There was no need to change anything about it.


----------



## foxl

But: at least 15 numbers are sold or no longer available in the Shop. Maybe gifts for the employees…


----------



## el_duderino

The new extra bold and super stretched logo compared to a random selection of dials from the old days and the Schauer era. The further you go back, the more compressed/flat the logo gets.

The new super stretched logo looks generally very awkward. But especially on a vintage styled watch it doesn’t make any sense at all.


----------



## Gargamel35

foxl said:


> But: at least 15 numbers are sold or no longer available in the Shop. Maybe gifts for the employees…


I would expect people should grab the limited edition watch in a day or two. Specially after company didn't introduce any new watches in a very long time. 
So selling 15 watches (at least 10 were not available anyway) is a disaster in my book.

The reality is, special editions should be...special. Wanted. Interesting. This one is none of that.


----------



## frank_be

el_duderino said:


> View attachment 16740784
> 
> 
> The new extra bold and super stretched logo compared to a random selection of dials from the old days and the Schauer era. The further you go back, the more compressed/flat the logo gets.
> 
> The new super stretched logo looks generally very awkward. But especially on a vintage styled watch it doesn’t make any sense at all.


The "O" in the logo always has been a circle. It has become an ellips in this one. The leg widths are normally fixed. In this logo e.g. the vertical leg of the T is narrower than the horizontal leg.
In general this dial looks "thrown" together.


----------



## foxl

Well, Maybe They Studied Design approaches from that Book….. (yes, judge it from its cover )


----------



## jonobailey

Djurgården said:


> Flieger Verus 40 Vintage 95 Limited | Uhrenmanufaktur seit 1927
> 
> 
> Flieger Verus 40 Vintage 95 Limited - Onlineshop für Uhren, Onlinevertrieb Uhren,Direktvertrieb Uhr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.stowa.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16739434


I find this release really frustrating - its so obvious what is wrong with this and what is so easy to fix. On such a simple watch I can't overlook the errors.

On first glance it looks a bit like the IWC Fleiger Heritage then it all fall apart.....

Quite like the lume colour and logo could work, if the other elements did..... but why classic hands with the modern verus font? Why aged lume with a modern font and why the old logo with the modern verus automatic text? It so confused and looks like bastardized frankenwatch.

Replace the numerals with those used on the classic fleigers and get rid of the stupid Fleiger Verus Automatic text and it would work.... can't forgive errors like that on such a simple design.


----------



## frank_be

el_duderino said:


> View attachment 16740784
> 
> 
> The new extra bold and super stretched logo compared to a random selection of dials from the old days and the Schauer era. The further you go back, the more compressed/flat the logo gets.
> 
> The new super stretched logo looks generally very awkward. But especially on a vintage styled watch it doesn’t make any sense at all.



















Many years ago I've lasercut some stainless steel keychain hangers with the old STOWA logo. I just measured the letter leg widths; the are all the same and every round curve is circular.


----------



## el_duderino

frank_be said:


> The "O" in the logo always has been a circle. It has become an ellips in this one. The leg widths are normally fixed. In this logo e.g. the vertical leg of the T is narrower than the horizontal leg.
> In general this dial looks "thrown" together.


Yep, the dial screams amateur hour. That's the reason for my suspicion that they couldn't afford a designer, so some intern got placed in front of microsoft paint with the task of coming up with a "design" (or even worse: the boss did it himself).


----------



## Orsoni

Looks just like the logo sizing on some of the models posted by Eugene Hot so, I don’t understand the hubaloo


----------



## foxl

Orsoni said:


> some of the models posted by Eugene Hot


haha… thats a good one!
maybe HE is the Spiritus rectus of the modern Retro Easter Europe Design!
But: then the Index shape Must have been *Poire squélette Type…*

As he Seems to „update“ every Single watch with such Index spare Parts despite Good taste and Original Designs


----------



## Orsoni

Poire squelette sounds like something sung by the guy in Animal House who gets his guitar smashed by John Belushi


----------



## Nasir Kasmani

Perhaps Stowa is the watch world's Manchester United.


----------



## tommy_boy

I'm just finicky when it comes to all things "vintage" since, when it comes to watches, that announces features like old radium lume. No thanks.

If I want aged lume, I'll buy an old watch. 

If I want a piece of furniture that looks like it was stored for fifty years in a chicken coop, I'll drive to the country and find one on somebody's farm.

Carry on.


----------



## hahaha3111

Not tempting at all as an annervisary LE😂


----------



## hahaha3111

tommy_boy said:


> I'm just finicky when it comes to all things "vintage" since, when it comes to watches, that announces features like old radium lume. No thanks.
> 
> If I want aged lume, I'll buy an old watch.
> 
> If I want a piece of furniture that looks like it was stored for fifty years in a chicken coop, I'll drive to the country and find one on somebody's farm.
> 
> Carry on.


I will go for Laco Erbstuck series if I want a "vintage" look flieger compairing to this LE...


----------



## foxl

Orsoni said:


> Poire squelette sounds like something sung by the guy in Animal House who gets his guitar smashed by John Belushi


its french for skeletonized pear, cultural philistines 😁

but the Watch should get smashed by that Guitar as well


----------



## Orsoni

To recap; before we were angry at Stowa’s lack of new models. Now we are angry at Stowa’s new models 😁


----------



## foxl

Yes, You are totally Right
But my disappointment is Not really about this particualar Design fail but more about the current Status of This Company and its „Plan“ for the Future without „A“ CEO.
I also feel sorry for the employees that are having a bad Time in This Transition Phase…
transition into what???


----------



## el_duderino

Orsoni said:


> To recap; before we were angry at Stowa’s lack of new models. Now we are angry at Stowa’s new models 😁


That's because we were hoping for a real sign of life. And this model (singular) is no sign of life. It's at best evidence of Tempus Arte desperately grasping at straws on their way down. When you can't even afford a designer for a watch dial anymore, then your days are numbered.


----------



## Stowie

brainless said:


> *This* is the result of months of prudent considerations??
> 
> I feel sad,
> 
> 
> Volker


Not sure I could have said it better myself. I like the return of the old logo. But not quite like this. It definitely feels like they are going a different direction in terms of the design methodology Jorg followed.


----------



## jonobailey

I actually dont mind the logo, just not the old logo with all these different fonts -


el_duderino said:


> That's because we were hoping for a real sign of life. And this model (singular) is no sign of life. It's at best evidence of Tempus Arte desperately grasping at straws on their way down. When you can't even afford a designer for a watch dial anymore, then your days are numbered.


To be fair to the new owners, I havn't seen much in terms of signs of life for the last couple of years - even under Jörg the catalogue was getting stale in my opinion.

I felt designs were not evolving, limited editions and new watches consisted of a change of dial colour, too many models shared cases etc or the same dial design was put in a different case and marketed as a new watch, it all felt a bit contrived and unimaginative and I had already began to loose interest in the brand.

With their constant price increases they also pushed the brand into the domain of other brands where I could no longer see the value they once had, and things which could make the brand distinct like the use of Durowe movements never materialised.

In my mind Stowa have been on a downward trend for a while, perhaps its just me as my tastes and collection has evolved?

I want to like the brand, they were one of my first "good" watches - but just don't see myself purchasing one again


----------



## el_duderino

jonobailey said:


> To be fair to the new owners, I havn't seen much in terms of signs of life for the last couple of years - even under Jörg the catalogue was getting stale in my opinion.
> ...
> In my mind Stowa have been on a downward trend for a while, perhaps its just me as my tastes and collection has evolved?


It's true. Stowa under Jörg Schauer was slowing down considerably towards in the end. When the acquisition by Tempus Arte was announced last year, some people speculated that Jörg had to sell. On a German watch forum I read that he supposedly told someone, that he sold Stowa "gerade noch rechtzeitig" (just in time), which was interpreted by some as "just in time before the whole thing collapsed" [but equally reasonable would be: just in time for him, not being that young anymore, to still have enough time to pursue his own endeavors]. 

So he sold to Tempus Arte in the middle of 2021. The self proclaimed "agile" new German watch group. And what happened? Nothing - for exactly one full year (!). Well, the only thing that happened was Jörg (who officially stayed as managing director after the sale) jumping ship apparently over night earlier this year - that clearly wasn't planned and, given the circumstances, he must have had very good reasons for abandoning the lifeless corpse of what once was his company.

Forward to last week and two things happened: Tempus Arte can't hide it's obvious problems anymore (see above about Leinfelder) and Stowa finally comes up with a new release - that has written amateur hour all over it and is simply an embarrassment, a sad joke, a caricature of a vintage Stowa watch.

My personal best guess is still: Tempus Arte is going belly up soon. They acquired Stowa (which was or was not already struggling at the time) but right from the beginning never had the means to do anything with it. They were themselves on the brink of insolvency from the get-go. That's why they did absolutely nothing with the brand. There simply was no money that they could have invested to revive the brand. Once Jörg figured that out, he left.

Let's hope they'll prove me wrong.


----------



## foxl

el_duderino said:


> .... That's why they did absolutely nothing with the brand. There simply was no money that they could have invested to revive the brand. Once Jörg figured that out, he left...


I also don't now but as Stowa is my most loved brand due to its roots and i did some speculations about the "strategy":

The owner of this Tempus Arte holding is a multi-Millionair industrial-magnate. He also is a watch-lover, and he is in his 80s. 
I assume the bottom line is about improvement of tax issues in his asset portfolio.


----------



## PS-65

At first I thought maybe I finally should get myself a Stowa ... oh well ...

AND, is it just me, or the logo on the (warranty?)-card looks correct, as opposed to the watch? That's a bit weird isn't it?


----------



## el_duderino

PS-65 said:


> AND, is it just me, or the logo on the (warranty?)-card looks correct, as opposed to the watch?


It is not just you. And yes, the logo on the card is correct whereas the logo on the watch is comically stretched.


----------



## el_duderino

foxl said:


> The owner of this Tempus Arte holding is a multi-Millionair industrial-magnate. He also is a watch-lover, and he is in his 80s.
> I assume the bottom line is about improvement of tax issues in his asset portfolio.


He made is fortune with microwave technology. How wealthy he really is as of today - who knows. But given the Tempus Arte debacle so far it's safe to say that he's either unwilling or unable to properly fund it.


----------



## el_duderino

Holy cr*p, I just noticed that Tempus Arte still hasn't even updated the most basic (and in Germany/EU essential!) legal information on the Stowa website, like revocation/Widerruf and data security/Datenschutzerklärung.

According to that the Stowa GmbH & Co. KG with Jörg Schauer as CEO is still responsible:

"Protection of privacy: Responsible body for data-processing is STOWA GmbH & Co. KG, Gewerbepark 16, 75331 Engelsbrand. CEO: Jörg Schauer. Further detailed information about the authorized body you find in our legal notice on this website."


----------



## foxl

BTW: durowe / Schauer Legal and Stowa/Tempus Arte entity Are shareing still the Same postal Adress…. 
Is there still some Cooperation eg postal Service / Customer Care?


----------



## whiskeymuscles

Yeah, I'm also not really a fan of what they did to the old logo on this release. I think that they also should of kept the rest of the text off of the dial. Personally, I do like the dark case and old radium lume though.

I've added an image of a quick photoshop job which I think would of been better. Please forgive the somewhat low quality logo.

I've removed the text, and changed the logo. I've also toned down the orange patina color on the hands to closer match the lume on the dial.










Or even just a sterile dial..


----------



## el_duderino

foxl said:


> BTW: durowe / Schauer Legal and Stowa/Tempus Arte entity Are shareing still the Same postal Adress….
> Is there still some Cooperation eg postal Service / Customer Care?


No. The address of Jörg’s company Durowe GmbH has recently changed.


----------



## foxl

But Not on his Internet Web Site impressum….
Seems that Designers and elderly industrial magnates are not familiar with Legal Information or „This internetz“


----------



## el_duderino

foxl said:


> But Not on his Internet Web Site impressum….
> Seems that Designers and elderly industrial magnates are not familiar with Legal Information or „This internetz“


I'm sure both would rather not think about that kind of stuff at all. But when you're running a business, there's no way around it.

Though here the level of urgency to keep things in order is very different. Jörg's website is a mere placeholder for a so far inactive company. Tempus Arte on the other hand only sells it's Stowa branded watches through the Tempus Arte Stowa website. And for months they don't even get around to update absolute essentials like e.g. the "Widerrufsbelehrung"?!

It's not rocket science and they don't need to pay a lawyer to check the website, they can literally tell any intern to go through the website and change every Stowa GmbH & Co. KG to Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG. [Instead they obviously task interns with designing watch dials.]

Not just the dial of the new release but the whole Tempus Arte operation has amateur hour written all over it. No money to invest, no management to handle even the most basic things.


----------



## STOWA1927

Hello STOWA friends, 

We are back (well, we actually never left😉).

In the last few weeks and months, we obviously had lots to do, that included hiring new employees, building new teams, preparing for our anniversary.

We are all very happy that this week the kickoff for our anniversary has been made and we are looking forward to the upcoming releases. This also means more thrilling surprises are on the way. 

All upcoming news, new releases will be announced in our newsletter. So make sure to sign up if you haven´t already

As always, if anyone has any questions or queries, emails us ([email protected]), chat with us (the live chat is back on, mostly during office hours😉) or call us +497082-942630.


With best regards from the Black Forest.

Your STOWA team


----------



## Stowie

STOWA1927 said:


> we are looking forward to the upcoming releases. This also means more thrilling surprises are on the way.


 Hopefully not long! I’ve been waiting for a cool release from Stowa for so long!


----------



## brainless

@STOWA1927:


> As always, if anyone has any questions or queries, emails us ([email protected])


I did so, but I got an odd response only.
Why don't you take part in our discussion in your forum here? Nearly all posts deal with your brand.
We would like to get in contact with a *person* - not only with an anonymous *team*,


Volker


----------



## StufflerMike

Hopefully the plan to only share news via newsletter will work out for you. A lack of news is sooner or later the death of any forum.


----------



## Orsoni

I agree with Mike. A newsletter is a bit too 1990s. Today’s internet moves at the speed of the latest Instagram post.


----------



## el_duderino

The fact that the return to the forum is announced as a reply in this particular thread is kind of telling, isn’t it?


----------



## brainless

Is this new?:
The forum's name changed into _STOWA.,

Volker_


----------



## StufflerMike

brainless said:


> Is this new?:
> The forum's name changed into _STOWA.,
> 
> Volker_


It has changed over night. But it took a long time and some phone calls and messages to get it done. I don‘t think it‘s the fault of Stowa, [email protected] was a bit phlegmatic. They were „not aware of the changes“ for some time😉


https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/j%C3%B6rg-schauer-stowa-forum.5415263/unread


----------



## el_duderino

el_duderino said:


> Holy cr*p, I just noticed that Tempus Arte still hasn't even updated the most basic (and in Germany/EU essential!) legal information on the Stowa website, like revocation/Widerruf and data security/Datenschutzerklärung.


Well look at that! They finally fixed it. So my ever so subtle hints worked💪

Sometimes tough love is what it needs.

@STOWA1927: Good job, guys. Keep following this forum, listen to the community. Everybody here just wants the best for the brand.


----------



## john_marston

M&As are never simple. It’s at least a relief to see there is some new activity, even if that anniversary logo looks a bit odd.

Would love to hear the full story from Jörg as to what happened, even if later down the line.


----------



## STOWA1927

brainless said:


> @STOWA1927:
> 
> 
> I did so, but I got an odd response only.
> Why don't you take part in our discussion in your forum here? Nearly all posts deal with your brand.
> We would like to get in contact with a *person* - not only with an anonymous *team*,
> 
> 
> Volker



Thanks for your feedback.


We will do our best to reply to all questions on all channels including the forum moving forward.


With best regards from the Black Forest.

Your STOWA team (not a robot )


----------



## STOWA1927

Orsoni said:


> I agree with Mike. A newsletter is a bit too 1990s. Today’s internet moves at the speed of the latest Instagram post.



We meant of course, we will share any further news in our newsletter *first*


With best regards from the Black Forest.

Your STOWA team


----------



## Bhanu Chopra

STOWA1927 said:


> Hello STOWA friends,
> 
> We are back (well, we actually never left).
> 
> In the last few weeks and months, we obviously had lots to do, that included hiring new employees, building new teams, preparing for our anniversary.
> 
> We are all very happy that this week the kickoff for our anniversary has been made and we are looking forward to the upcoming releases. This also means more thrilling surprises are on the way.
> 
> All upcoming news, new releases will be announced in our newsletter. So make sure to sign up if you haven´t already
> 
> As always, if anyone has any questions or queries, emails us ([email protected]), chat with us (the live chat is back on, mostly during office hours) or call us +497082-942630.
> 
> 
> With best regards from the Black Forest.
> 
> Your STOWA team


Did you hire more tax accountants to design the fliegers? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## el_duderino

The Stowa website (as of today) still has some beautiful reminders of what Stowa used to be like in the good old days:


----------



## el_duderino

el_duderino said:


> View attachment 16755903


And there it is, the updated version:


----------



## Orsoni

That’s good customer support.


----------



## el_duderino

Its' also great to see that as of today Jörg Schauer from STOWA and Hartmut Esslinger are still working together on the STOWA designs of today and tomorrow:


----------



## Stowie

el_duderino said:


> Its' also great to see that as of today Jörg Schauer from STOWA and Hartmut Esslinger are still working together on the STOWA designs of today and tomorrow:
> 
> View attachment 16759992
> 
> 
> @STOWA1927: Technically it's your job to fix the info on the website, don't you think? How about you show your appreciation for my volunteer work (and loving words) by making a donation to a charity of my choice?


@el_duderino keeping the Stowa website up-to-date I see. Lol!


----------



## el_duderino

@STOWA1927: Do Jörg Schauer from STOWA and Hartmut Esslinger a) work together on the Stowa designs, b) only sometimes work together on the designs or c) don't work for Stowa at all?


----------



## el_duderino

@STOWA1927: @FREG is rightfully confused. He found another Stowa GmbH & Co. KG.










Wanna fix that?

And while your at it, why don't you update the pricelist for service as well? Otherwise people might get the false impression that you're in charge of servicing Schauer watches.


----------



## Gargamel35

New Stowa Prodiver 95 Limited edition. 95 avaliable, 1795 eur. Just one photo so far.


----------



## el_duderino

Gargamel35 said:


> New Stowa Prodiver 95 Limited edition. 95 avaliable, 1795 eur. Just one photo so far.
> 
> View attachment 16806231


Not exactly overwhelming. But certainly way better than the previous LE. 

What’s with that black crown? Is that a reference to the soul of the Bavarian invaders?


----------



## foxl

Ok, its a improvement and a step into the right direction in comparison to the latest 2 models. 

This design approach seems to lean towards a Navigational Aircraft clock.... 
these numbers resamples old Junghans / Sinn clocks and is a "crossover". 
Might work, but not for me..

I see these dots from Esslinger, numbers like in a Seatime but also a aicraft clock..... but it is a divers watch......


----------



## StufflerMike

The Prodiver Vintage 95 Limited may appeal to some guys but it does not appeal to me. It‘s a mix-up of Esslinger dyna dots (never appealed to me), radium lume (nothing new but here too fat) and a borrowing from former Prodiver models. „Vintage“ most likely refers to the use of old radium lume which should underline the „vintage flair“ or „vintage character“. But the Prodiver never ever featured a „vintage flair“. The predecessor was a modern interpretation of the 1960s Seatime which Stowa developed together with a couple of forum members (2003/2004).
Longtime Stowaristi will remember that the Stowa Seatime became the „Seatime Prodiver“ after Greg Bottle gave some recommendations to make the Seatime a Prodiver, a modern diver.

Quote 2005: „Here at Stowa we not only create beautiful timepieces that are worn and treasured by our customers, we also provide them with a watch that is practical, durable and designed to do the job it was intended for.
With this in mind and the success of our robust seatime sports watch series, we decided we wanted to go one step further and produce the ultimate dive watch, a professional dive watch for divers. To make sure we got this watch just right we went to a designer who is not only a watch enthusiast, but who is also a very experienced diver with many years of experience.
The challenge was not only to create a watch that performed under extreme conditions and fulfilled divers needs, but also to create a beautiful watch that could be worn everyday and would be treasured by it’s owner.“

Now, to celebrate the 95th anniversary and out of a sudden, there is a Prodiver Vintage. What the h….?


----------



## PS-65

Just me, or Stowa celebrating 95 like there's no tomorrow?


----------



## el_duderino

StufflerMike said:


> Now, to celebrate the 95th anniversary and out of a sudden, there is a Prodiver Vintage. What the h….?


Just more evidence that Tempus Arte knows nothing about Stowa, it’s history and it’s long earned (and now thoroughly ruined) reputation.


----------



## StufflerMike

el_duderino said:


> Just more evidence that Tempus Arte knows nothing about Stowa, it’s history and it’s long earned (and now thoroughly ruined) reputation.


Well, I am almost sure that TA did not intervene. Usually TA hasn’t much impact on model development. However, this watch -again- shows a lack of imagination and a lack of a person like Jörg. Maybe they should ask Greg Bottle. Greg Bottle worked for/with brands like DOXA, Aquadive, Hadley Rille and Heinrich.










Greg could become kind of a spiritus rector for Stowa to bypass Stowa‘s current paralysis. I have to admit that I am biased when it comes to Stowa‘s latest models.


----------



## Frequent_Flieger

StufflerMike said:


> Now, to celebrate the 95th anniversary and out of a sudden, there is a Prodiver Vintage. What the h….?


So basically it’s a vintage interpretation of a modern interpretation of a vintage watch. That makes it neither truly vintage inspired, nor truly modern. 

hodgepodge is the best descriptor


----------



## JuNi

Gargamel35 said:


> New Stowa Prodiver 95 Limited edition. 95 avaliable, 1795 eur. Just one photo so far.
> View attachment 16806231


Positive is that there is no date.

But thinking of the Prodiver it is associated with a modern Dive/Sports watch. The vintage lume doesn’t support this purpose.


----------



## StufflerMike

Frequent_Flieger said:


> So basically it’s a vintage interpretation of a modern interpretation of a vintage watch. That makes it neither truly vintage inspired, nor truly modern.
> 
> hodgepodge is the best descriptor


“Hodgepodge“ is a cool description, in German it would be „Kuddelmuddel“ and that´s exactly what it is.


----------



## el_duderino

StufflerMike said:


> Well, I am almost sure that TA did not intervene. Usually TA hasn’t much impact on model development. However, this watch -again- shows a lack of imagination and a lack of a person like Jörg.


There is no company Stowa where TA could intervene with anything. There only is Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG and Stowa is just a trademark that they use.

But it indeed does look like the old Stowa was a one man show, the Jörg Schauer show. And Tempus Arte never hired new people to fill the gap, especially designers after they absorbed the assets into Tempus Arte.


----------



## StufflerMike

el_duderino said:


> There is no company Stowa where TA could intervene with anything. There only is Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG and Stowa is just a trademark that they use.
> 
> But it indeed does look like the old Stowa was a one man show, the Jörg Schauer show. And Tempus Arte never hired new people to fill the gap, especially designers after they absorbed the assets into Tempus Arte.


I doubt TA employs any designers at all, I think the „new“ Vintage Prodiver was conceived in Engelsbrand, just not with a good hand. You can see the efforts to create something new based on old templates, unfortunately not with the desired success, a tragedy seems to be taking its course.


----------



## el_duderino

StufflerMike said:


> I doubt TA employs any designers at all, I think the „new“ Vintage Prodiver was conceived in Engelsbrand, just not with a good hand. You can see the efforts to create something new based on old templates, unfortunately not with the desired success, a tragedy seems to be taking its course.


It might have very well been conceived in Engelsbrand - by Tempus Arte employees. All the former Stowa people in Engelsbrand are now Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG employees. There is no Stowa (as a company) anymore, there only is Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG.

But I agree, it looks like TA indeed doesn’t employ any designers - in Engelsbrand or elsewhere 

And yes, it’s a tragedy.


----------



## john_marston

Gargamel35 said:


> New Stowa Prodiver 95 Limited edition. 95 avaliable, 1795 eur. Just one photo so far.
> 
> View attachment 16806231


That's a handsome Prodiver. I wish they cut some text below the 12. With the 12 there it makes it too cramped


----------



## Gargamel35

I just checked Stowa website to see how are two new special 95 year editions selling. Very, very poorly indeed. Verus40 is still available after all this time. Only 4 pieces so it's close to selling out. Prodiver 95 is also still available at around 89 pieces from 99! So only 10 were sold so far. 

Then i checked the chronographs and saw the price went up for 300 eur. I remember these models were in 2200 range and with upgrades in 2500 range. Now, basic is 2500 and with upgrades 2800. 

Meh.


----------



## foxl

Gargamel35 said:


> Now, basic is 2500 and with upgrades 2800


Very close to luxury Brands like Tudor with inhouse Made calibers….

no good Odds with Respects to a 100 years Aniversary…..


----------



## Benjamin NV

Could somebody try and neutrally summarise what happened to Stowa? I tried to reconstruct the news flicking through pages of several different interlocking complaints, but it's unclear what the core of the issue(s) is.


----------



## el_duderino

Benjamin NV said:


> Could somebody try and neutrally summarise what happened to Stowa? I tried to reconstruct the news flicking through pages of several different interlocking complaints, but it's unclear what the core of the issue(s) is.


Jörg Schauer sold the company to Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG (Tempus Arte) in 2021, which absorbed the assets and now owns the Stowa trademark. More info here.

For months Tempus Arte did absolutely nothing with Stowa. Zero news, zero communication with the community, nothing. 

As it turns out, they're now using the former Stowa production facilities to produce Bavarian kitsch (which equals taking a big fat dump on everything Stowa ever stood for) while neglecting the Stowa side of the business. The two new releases under the Stowa name are underwhelming - to put it mildly.

The community is not amused.


----------



## Benjamin NV

el_duderino said:


> Jörg Schauer sold the company to Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG (Tempus Arte) in 2021, which absorbed the assets and now owns the Stowa trademark. More info here.
> 
> For months Tempus Arte did absolutely nothing with Stowa. Zero news, zero communication with the community, nothing.
> 
> As it turns out, they're now using the former Stowa production facilities to produce Bavarian kitsch (which equals taking a big fat dump on everything Stowa ever stood for) while neglecting the Stowa side of the business. The two new releases under the Stowa name are underwhelming - to put it mildly.
> 
> The community is not amused.


Many thanks. I'm a happy owner of a Partitio. I hadn't realised the company was sold. I'm not sure what the Bavarian kitsch is branded as (can't make it out on the dial), though the caseback says Stowa. Indeed, I'd agree, it doesn't look like Stowa. I welcome innovation, also from Stowa, like the rather appealing back to Bauhaus series. Stowa for me was like a somewhat under the radar (more for those who have a care about what they buy) dependable brand with nice subtle and timeless designs. I preferred the old logo, especially on the dials. Have they stopped producing these earlier designs altogether then? 

Why was it sold? Did it not do well?


----------



## el_duderino

Benjamin NV said:


> Many thanks. I'm a happy owner of a Partitio. I hadn't realised the company was sold. I'm not sure what the Bavarian kitsch is branded as (can't make it out on the dial), though the caseback says Stowa. Indeed, I'd agree, it doesn't look like Stowa. I welcome innovation, also from Stowa, like the rather appealing back to Bauhaus series. Stowa for me was like a somewhat under the radar (more for those who have a care about what they buy) dependable brand with nice subtle and timeless designs. I preferred the old logo, especially on the dials. Have they stopped producing these earlier designs altogether then?
> 
> Why was it sold? Did it not do well?


The collection is still almost 100% from the Jörg Schauer era. Nothing has changed - apart from rising prices and the two new limited edition models. If you're interested in a Jörg Schauer era model, consider buying one soon - before it's too late.

According to Jörg he always intended to pass Stowa on to a new owner in good time. He's going to focus on is own Schauer branded watches from now on. Whether that's the whole story or whether there were other reasons to sell Stowa at the time - we'll probably never know. But my feeling is, that the divorce wasn't amicable in the end and that he regrets selling to Mr. Rohde / Tempus Arte. It's been an absolute sh*tshow ever since Tempus Arte took over. He built the modern Stowa and it's reputation with hard work over many years, must be tough to see it being destroyed that quickly and recklessly.


----------



## foxl

After the Transaction Mr. Schauer still was im place as CEO.
His demission/resignment followed some month later. No Communication about that from both Sides, which Seems appropriate; but I am quite sure that the Plan was something Other..


----------



## StufflerMike

foxl said:


> After the Transaction Mr. Schauer still was im place as CEO.
> His demission/resignment followed some month later. No Communication about that from both Sides, which Seems appropriate; but I am quite sure that the Plan was something Other..


According to Jörg‘s statememt: 8 month.


----------



## Benjamin NV

Thanks for bringing me up to speed. It seems sad. I hope TA will see sense and remember to continue and build on Stowa's recent strengths. I've seen more Stowa's come onto the secondary market recently, perhaps because of the sale.


----------



## el_duderino

StufflerMike said:


> According to Jörg‘s statememt: 8 month.


No need to take Jörg's word for it. That kind of information is publicly available in the official registers. In simplified terms: Jörg's company was sold in July 2021, Jörg stayed CEO till March 2022 when the company got dissolved and the assets were absorbed by Tempus Arte. That's eight months indeed.

I have some doubts though whether these eight months were pleasant in any way shape or form for Jörg. My guess is that only after the acquisition he quickly started realizing how little Tempus Arte cares for what he created and what kind of unspeakable acts they were going to perform on "his Stowa". For someone like Jörg who fought tooth and claw for his Stowa for more than 20 years it must have been quite the low blow to hear "oh by the way Jörg, the watchmakers you hired and the production facilities you built up ... we're going to use those for producing Bavarian kitsch from now on. And we're going to put the name Stowa on those abominations, just for humiliation purposes and to take a giant dump on Stowa's reputation and image as a true and proud Black Forest watch company".


----------



## Orsoni

I assume that there are still longtime Stowa employees still producing the same models as before so, I would hold back on wholesale criticism just for their sake, until we see any drastic changes to their model line up.

Previous Stowa post in this thread suggested there are no plans to change the brand DNA.


----------



## el_duderino

Orsoni said:


> Previous Stowa post in this thread suggested there are no plans to change the brand DNA.


Actions speak louder than words. And everything that Tempus Arte is doing so far is the exact opposite of not changing the brand DNA. Steering away from the humble, hard working, honest, open and relatable little Black Forest manufacturer towards serving Munich's rich and famous (infamous for having lots of money but no taste whatsoever by any non Bavarian standards). And the two released LE prove that they have no idea whatsoever about (or interest in) Stowa's history (as @StufflerMike pointed out with regards to the latest model). To me it really looks like Tempus Arte never had and still has no idea of what Stowa really is, why it was such a gem and beloved by many people within the community. They're happy about the production facilities and a second "cheap" trademark to play around with without tarnishing the Lang & Heyne name.


----------



## Orsoni

Just sayin’ no need to punish Stowa employees. They’re still pumping out the Anteas, etc


----------



## foxl

I would still buy the Great current Models like Marine or Flieger.
The reason is becouse of the history of the Brand and Not so much the current State.
And: spare Parts like movements and Housing, Croudsvand so on are available on the secondary market.


----------



## el_duderino

Orsoni said:


> Just sayin’ no need to punish Stowa employees. They’re still pumping out the Anteas, etc


Absolutely, they're the primary victims of Tempus Arte's mismanagement. Imagine being hired by Jörg Schauer to work for Stowa and then a few years later having to assemble Bavarian kitsch for Tempus Arte while facing a very uncertain future.

Like I mentioned the other day, as long as models from the Jörg Schauer era are still in production by Tempus Arte, people should consider buying one - before it's too late. It simultaneously buys time for the good people in Engelsbrand to find a new job somewhere else.


----------



## john_marston

Benjamin NV said:


> Could somebody try and neutrally summarise what happened to Stowa? I tried to reconstruct the news flicking through pages of several different interlocking complaints, but it's unclear what the core of the issue(s) is.


Playing Devil’s advocate: I don’t think the situation is quite as catastrophic as members make it out to be. Firstly anger about not doing anything, and now that Stowa/Tempus is slowly getting the ball rolling, it’s even more anger.

It’s a merger/acquisition: things are gonna change and be shaken up, and need time. Not uncommon with M&As is that the company gets swallowed up & dissolved, which at least hasn’t happened.

…however, M&As are rarely successful. Over half fail; some sources stating up to 90% fail. We are seeing in real time some of the fundamental issues as to why so many M&As fail.


----------



## el_duderino

john_marston said:


> Not uncommon with M&As is that the company gets swallowed up & dissolved, which at least hasn’t happened.


Uh, no. That is exactly what happened. There is no more Stowa as a company. The company Stowa that Jörg Schauer built got dissolved. It’s assets, including the Stowa trademark, got absorbed (swallowed) by Tempus Arte. Details here.


----------



## Eugene Hot

The new ProDiver 95 is not so bad. Slightly increase the logo (not as big as on Verus95), remove unnecessary text - the old logo and MADE IN GERMANY is enough, add hour markers, case and crown in same color, hands from one set, improve the quality of the luminofor application, and for this price give own caliber UWD, or for half of this price caliber ETA 2801, and i'll want it.


----------



## john_marston

el_duderino said:


> Uh, no. That is exactly what happened. There is no more Stowa as a company. The company Stowa that Jörg Schauer built got dissolved. It’s assets, including the Stowa trademark, got absorbed (swallowed) by Tempus Arte. Details here.


Legally, yes. With dissolved, I meant someone from the holding orders them to close up shop, and what’s left goes work on Lang & Heyne or something. Knock on wood

Is there any information on how staff numbers at Stowa have changed?


----------



## el_duderino

john_marston said:


> Is there any information on how staff numbers at Stowa have changed?


The number of employees at Stowa is now 0. Stowa doesn’t have any employees, since it doesn’t exist anymore. Only Tempus Arte has employees, some of them working at the Tempus Arte location in Engelsbrand.

I don’t think they have fired former Stowa staff, after all, they use them to produce Tempus Arte watches with other trademarks as well (see that Prinz Poldi thing). The Stowa trademark is just one among others used for watches produced by Tempus Arte in Engelsbrand.


----------



## StufflerMike

john_marston said:


> Legally, yes. With dissolved, I meant someone from the holding orders them to close up shop, and what’s left goes work on Lang & Heyne or something. Knock on wood
> 
> Is there any information on how staff numbers at Stowa have changed?


As already mention here the company „Stowa“ is dead. The company „Stowa“ was deleted in the register of companies in Mannheim (Amtsgericht Mannheim HRA 702603: „Die Gesellschaft ist aufgelöst. Die Firma ist erloschen. Das Registerblatt ist geschlossen“) on 15th of March 2022. The company owning the trade mark now is
Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG
Ramersdorfer Straße 1
81669 München
Register of companies in Munich HRA 89938


----------



## Gargamel35

I also think many people left Stowa already. I checked Tempus Arte web site couple times so far and they are searching for new employees in Lang Heine and in Stowa (Customer care and sales, management assistant). They had different open work places weeks ago.


----------



## el_duderino

StufflerMike said:


> As already mention here the company „Stowa“ is dead. ... The company owning the trade mark now is
> Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG


I think many are wondering whether that's not a legal distinction without a practical difference. [Short answer: *it is not*.] After all the Stowa website still looks the same and there's still a building in Engelsbrand with Stowa written on it. If Tempus Arte keeps things as they were before, leaving Engelsbrand as a de facto independent entity within Tempus Arte doing Stowa things, what's the problem?

Well, the problem is, that this is clearly - despite half-hearted statements in this direction by Tempus Arte - not the case! They don't treat Stowa as an independent "company" within Tempus Arte. The horrendous Prince of Bavaria "watch" is undeniable evidence that they use the former Stowa production facilities for all kinds of Tempus Arte stuff. And they already threatened on their website that they have more of that garbage in the pipeline. So the site in Engelsbrand is now just a production facility and service center for all kinds of Tempus Arte products. Which means there is no more Stowa company, not legally and also not in a practical sense. There only is Tempus Arte with it's newly acquired production facility in Engelsbrand (ab)using the Stowa trademark.


----------



## StufflerMike

…..and the icing on the cake: A trade mark and just that is celebrating its 95th anniversary.


----------



## john_marston

el_duderino said:


> The number of employees at Stowa is now 0. Stowa doesn’t have any employees, since it doesn’t exist anymore. Only Tempus Arte has employees, some of them working at the Tempus Arte location in Engelsbrand.
> 
> I don’t think they have fired former Stowa staff, after all, they use them to produce Tempus Arte watches with other trademarks as well (see that Prinz Poldi thing). The Stowa trademark is just one among others used for watches produced by Tempus Arte in Engelsbrand.


Ok. The brand exists. Plenty 'companies' are simply a brand owned by a larger holding company. _If_ the product is good, who owns it or how the brand is registered doesn't keep me up at night. 

It's sad to see Stowa lose its independence, and I'm also concerned about Tempus and some recent releases. Mostly, I just hope the original Stowa staff are treated well, and still working on Stowa watches. 
But at least the brand is still operating and the new Prodiver 95 looks good imo. I'd be interested to hear Jörg's story, but other than that I'm just gonna see what happens and not get further involved in this melodrama.


----------



## StufflerMike

john_marston said:


> Ok. The brand exists. Plenty 'companies' are simply a brand owned by a larger holding company. _If_ the product is good, who owns it or how the brand is registered doesn't keep me up at night.
> 
> It's sad to see Stowa lose its independence, and I'm also concerned about Tempus and some recent releases. Mostly, I just hope the original Stowa staff are treated well, and still working on Stowa watches.
> But at least the brand is still operating and the new Prodiver 95 looks good imo. I'd be interested to hear Jörg's story, but other than that I'm just gonna see what happens and not get further involved in this melodrama.


I am sorry, but I don’t see it your way. It is not like Swatch Group taking over Glashütte Original or Richemont taking over A.Lange & Söhne. GO still is registered at the Amtsgericht Dresden as a company, HRB 1084, with its own statement of account. A.Lange & Söhne is still registered at the Amtsgericht Dresden,HRB 1886. Stowa is nothing like that. „Stowa“ now is a protected trade mark.

Jörg‘s view, at least in parts, has been posted on his new website.


----------



## el_duderino

StufflerMike said:


> I am sorry, but I don’t see it your way. It is not like Swatch Group taking over Glashütte Original or Richemont taking over A.Lange & Söhne. GO still is registered at the Amtsgericht Dresden as a company, HRB 1084, with its own statement of account. A.Lange & Söhne is still registered at the Amtsgericht Dresden,HRB 1886. Stowa is nothing like that. „Stowa“ now is a protected trade mark.


Indeed. Tempus Arte is not holding shares in Stowa, because there is no Stowa anymore. There only is Tempus Arte.

But from a practical point of view @john_marston could still be "somewhat" right - at least in theory. Like I wrote earlier, Tempus Arte could have kept things in Engelsbrand more or less exactly the way they were before, letting the Engelsbrand crew run the Stowa division within Tempus Arte independently. But since they're not doing that, it's not that Stowa "lost it's independence", Stowa stopped exisiting - legally as well as from a pure practical point of view.

Tempus Arte is actively misleading people by presenting themselves as a "group of companies" and a "holding". That's objectively complete bullsh*t and makes every person with even the tiniest amount of legal knowledge cringe. The question is whether they're misleading people on purpose or because of sheer incompetence.


----------



## Frequent_Flieger

StufflerMike said:


> Jörg‘s view, at least in parts, has been posted on his new website.


Please share a link for this, I’d love to read it


----------



## el_duderino

Frequent_Flieger said:


> Please share a link for this, I’d love to read it


durowe.com (only in German)


----------



## john_marston

Good people & bad people, masks and vaccinations...wth is he on about


----------



## el_duderino

john_marston said:


> Good people & bad people, masks and vaccinations...wth is he on about


I think what he's trying to say is: live and let live. 

We can only speculate, but it might be a hint for what went on within Tempus Arte (and why he left apparently not in the best mood). Maybe he got really pissed off by mask mandates and pressure on staff to get vaccinated by the bosses in Munich. Some companies in Germany got really tyrannical and paranoid in 20/21 with regards to a certain pathogen.


----------



## StufflerMike

john_marston said:


> Good people & bad people, masks and vaccinations...wth is he on about


I read the complete text, not a randomly selected sentence. If I understand Jörg right (of course I could be wrong), he was CEO of a company but wasn‘t allowed to steer the fortunes of Stowa in the old „traditional“ way, a CEO with no rights. I am convinced the „Poldi“ chrono would not have been his cup of tea (I could be wrong again).

Regarding the anniversary Prodiver I already posted what I think about it, post 156 et sequentes.


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## Frequent_Flieger

Jörg was first and foremost a designer and an artist, and had operated independently for many years. It would not surprise me that having decisions handed down/assigned to him, would not have been his ‘cup of tea’. His free spirit may have objected to masks or vaccines, just as much as being told what to do with his company and his designs. Jörg clearly thrived as an independent and clearly works better outside the confines of a parent corporation. 
Can’t wait to see what he does next! I think Jörg was more important to the Stowa brand than anyone realized, and hopefully this ensures him much success with his future endeavors.


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## el_duderino

el_duderino said:


> @STOWA1927: @FREG is rightfully confused. He found another Stowa GmbH & Co. KG.
> 
> View attachment 16769070
> 
> 
> Wanna fix that?


8 weeks later, still not fixed:

View attachment 16911852


Looks like nobody cares.


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## Djurgården

el_duderino said:


> The number of employees at Stowa is now 0. Stowa doesn’t have any employees, since it doesn’t exist anymore. Only Tempus Arte has employees, some of them working at the Tempus Arte location in Engelsbrand.
> 
> I don’t think they have fired former Stowa staff, after all, they use them to produce Tempus Arte watches with other trademarks as well (see that Prinz Poldi thing). The Stowa trademark is just one among others used for watches produced by Tempus Arte in Engelsbrand.


But that's like saying that there is no Omega, there is no Breguet, there is no Tissot. There is only Swatch group.


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## el_duderino

Djurgården said:


> But that's like saying that there is no Omega, there is no Breguet, there is no Tissot. There is only Swatch group.


Omega SA, Montres Breguet SA and Tissot SA are individual companies that happen to be owned by the Swatch group. Swatch Group could sell you the shares and then you're the owner of those companies.

There is no company Stowa that could be owned by anyone. Nobody can sell you shares in Stowa. The Stowa GmbH & Co. KG was dissolved early this year, all of it's assets - including the trademark "Stowa" - got absorbed by Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG (owned by Mr. Rohde).


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## Djurgården

el_duderino said:


> Omega SA, Montres Breguet SA and Tissot SA are individual companies that happen to be owned by the Swatch group. Swatch Group could sell you the shares and then you're the owner of those companies.
> 
> There is no company Stowa that could be owned by anyone. Nobody can sell you shares in Stowa. The Stowa GmbH & Co. KG was dissolved early this year, all of it's assets - including the trademark "Stowa" - got absorbed by Tempus Arte GmbH & Co. KG (owned by Mr. Rohde).


Aight


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## el_duderino

el_duderino said:


> 8 weeks later, still not fixed:
> 
> View attachment 16911852
> 
> 
> Looks like nobody cares.


Another month passed, still not fixed. According to the official Tempus Arte Stowa website watches still have to be sent to "STOWA GmbH + Co KG" with Jörg Schauer as CEO for servicing. 

The repair order pdf document still shows STOWA GmbH & CO.KG as well.


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## Gargamel35

el_duderino said:


> Another month passed, still not fixed. According to the official Tempus Arte Stowa website watches still have to be sent to "STOWA GmbH + Co KG" with Jörg Schauer as CEO for servicing.
> 
> The repair order pdf document still shows STOWA GmbH & CO.KG as well.


They look in a really bad place and very understaffed. Their ProDiver VIntage 95 special edition is basically unsold. Almost all serial numbers still available. There are no news from the company at all. No new projects and releases. What they showed until now is horror. They lost web designer, photographer (according to their webpage presentation)... This was one of the most vibrant and active small companies out there. A family. Now dead. What a shame. 

I wonder if Mr. Schauer saw the downfall and basically jumped of this ship before the crash and Tempus basically made a mistake buying it.


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## StufflerMike

Gargamel35 said:


> ….Their ProDiver VIntage 95 special edition is basically unsold. Almost all serial numbers still available. There are no news from the company at all. No new projects and releases. What they showed until now is horror. They lost web designer, photographer (according to their webpage presentation)...


Well, the ProDiver Vintage 95 seems to symbolize the current situation of Stowa, stagnation if not an incessant descent. Stowa and Stowa’s customers didn't deserve that. However, I expected exactly this. Some competitors as well.


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## Gargamel35

StufflerMike said:


> Well, the ProDiver Vintage 95 seems to symbolize the current situation of Stowa, stagnation if not an incessant descent. Stowa and Stowa’s customers didn't deserve that. However, I expected exactly this. Some competitors as well.


I wonder how many staff decided to jump ship, when Joerg sold the company or when he left the company completely. German watch manufacturers desperately need staff. Just look at Damasko situation. Loosing 20%, 30% or even more staff including the CEO can be disastrous for a company. Specially in a niche market with no employees to fill the spots.


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## el_duderino

Not hiring anymore, not fixing basic legal information on the website even months after it was required, no news, no communication with the community, barely selling any of their few new models, no clues what Tempus Arte could possibly be waiting for.


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## robi1138

StufflerMike said:


> Well, the ProDiver Vintage 95 seems to symbolize the current situation of Stowa, stagnation if not an incessant descent. Stowa and Stowa’s customers didn't deserve that. *However, I expected exactly this. Some competitors as well.*


Anyone else we should be worried about you think is headed down this path? That would be a shame.


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## el_duderino

el_duderino said:


> Another month passed, still not fixed. According to the official Tempus Arte Stowa website watches still have to be sent to "STOWA GmbH + Co KG" with Jörg Schauer as CEO for servicing.
> 
> The repair order pdf document still shows STOWA GmbH & CO.KG as well.


Now look at that. After all those months they finally fixed it.

@STOWA1927: You're welcome.


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## StufflerMike

robi1138 said:


> Anyone else we should be worried about you think is headed down this path? That would be a shame.


What I was saying is that competitors expected exactly what I expected, stagnation if not an incessant descent.


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## DimiTiomkin

Frequent_Flieger said:


> Jörg was first and foremost a designer and an artist, and had operated independently for many years. It would not surprise me that having decisions handed down/assigned to him, would not have been his ‘cup of tea’. His free spirit may have objected to masks or vaccines, just as much as being told what to do with his company and his designs. Jörg clearly thrived as an independent and clearly works better outside the confines of a parent corporation.
> Can’t wait to see what he does next! I think Jörg was more important to the Stowa brand than anyone realized, and hopefully this ensures him much success with his future endeavors.


I agree with you that Jörg was absolutely irreplaceable at Stowa. As far as I can surmise, his company was not large--around twenty employees--so he probably had to wear many hats. It's hard to immerse yourself in art, when an employee is calling out sick, or ETA is, yet again, jerking you around. As you mentioned, his passion is design, and the other parts of running a small company in uncertain economic times had to be stressful. He sounds happy to be on his own again, and that's good enough for me. However, I will miss the quirky friendliness of his incarnation of Stowa, the summer gatherings, the Advent specials, the contact he maintained with his customers. Regarding the personal touch, one of my few posts on this board concerned a question I had about the serial number on my Flieger rotor. The response post came from someone who seemed intimately aware of the laser etching process. I checked the profile, and it turned out to be one of his sons. 

When I first found that Stowa had been sold, I admit I was surprised and saddened. So I spent an hour or two following internet rabbit holes, trying to figure out who the heck Tempus Arte was, and whether I should be as concerned as I was. It seems to be a late-life hobby of a fabulously wealthy brilliant German (American?) scientist/businessman. In my burrowing,I happened across an interview with someone associated with Tempus Arte. My vague recollection was that the interview took place at some event. She gave the company spiel about Tempus Arte but the thing that jumped out at me was her gushing over Lange & Hyne, and then casually referring to Stowa as a very lovely _beginner _watch. Or maybe she said entry-level. Nevertheless, as a modest collector of modestly priced manual watches, _that_ got my attention. "Hey, wait. You're talking about my _nice_ watch!" If Jörg caught the same interview, that had to irk.

In the Stowa book, Mr. Schauer said "In 1996 Werner Storz decided to enter a well-earned retirement, and I became his successor. I had to confirm, in writing, that I would continue the good name of STOWA." I wonder if he was able to extract a similar commitment from Tempus Arte.


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