# Sticky  Message from DOXA Switzerland



## Doxa Watches Official (Feb 25, 2021)

Dear Fans,
Dear Community,

DOXA very much values its end-customers, and is working with the discretion that comes from having earned its place in watchmaking industry. We don't often intervene on the forums, because we respect too much the freedom of this dialogue space. Additionally sometimes the comments are even more of a stimulus to listen, and to take care of the development of our watches as well as our customers.

In the last few days, some false information has been circulated, even some speculations. We simply decided to respond to you directly, humbly to correct some posts.

We are exactly 42 people at DOXA only today, in the HQ Switzerland in Biel/Bienne, and in our direct subsidiaries in the US such as Germany. More own subsidiary openings are in firm planning to be closer to our customers and to offer them the best possible service. DOXA is still independently 100% owned by the Jenny Swiss family in its second generation over 24 years, which also owns Walca for almost 5 decades. Both companies are developing and acting independently, driven by the same values of honesty and long-term vision. For the past 2 and a half years, we have been working hard to give back visibility to the brand, which deserves it because of its rich history and to make it step by step more accessible and legitimately growing to a larger audience which is really working well. Our watches are more and more known and recognized, as shown by the more than 200 press articles that are visible on the site (and there are still 300 to be loaded). The opening of very selective points of sales is also in strong growth, as shown by the store locator on the website. It indicates nearly 30 new points of sales opened in just two years to be exclusively present also in the needed offline market for a possible touch and feel. And we always favor the best boutiques with the best advice, to present our watches to the customers. While the development strategy for our new products is already clearly defined until the end of 2023, we are above all guided by an open, global well thought approach. This is also reflected in the launch plan for the future DOXA Army. We are not interested in launching just a limited edition online. We are always thinking inclusive and to combine it with physical launches in the markets. Only the COVID pandemic thwarted our plans due to still impossible travels especially into the US for the DOXA HQ team such as living legends in Switzerland and we had to adapt.

If you still have any doubts about the facts we have just shared with you, we cordially invite you to come and see us at our HQ in Biel/Bienne, Switzerland. We will be very happy to welcome you there, so that you can see what an authentic Swiss hive we are. We try to give the best of ourselves every day, and to make the best watches for our clients.

We hope that you have taken the time to read these few lines to get a better idea of the reality of DOXA.

Best wishes,
The DOXA Team


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Brilliant! Someone seems a bit worried. 

So how about 30 all expenses paid tickets/hotels and we'll be there? 

Now...about your lume....


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## lughugger (Jul 6, 2021)

So what’s this all about then? Asking genuinely.


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## MaBr (Jan 22, 2018)

lughugger said:


> So what's this all about then? Asking genuinely.


It's spelled M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

lughugger said:


> So what's this all about then? Asking genuinely.


Basically Doxa so rarely bothers to interact with us that we start saying stuff, making assumptions and theories as all we hear is static. So they felt the need to tell us they are still alive...


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Well, good to hear the Army is still in the plans at least. Any timeline for that, @Doxa Watches Official?


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## mediasapiens (Jul 18, 2019)

Well, marketing did not work on me. I was aware of Doxa as a tertiary vintage brand that pops up on EBay once in a while. None of the vintage Doxa watches ever caught my attention to purchase or bid on them. However I was aware of such company existing at some point in the 1960-70s.
Fast-forward to 2000s and suddenly I see people discussing ugly watches with obnoxiously colored bezels and dials called Doxa and arguing merits of paying 1000s for them. My first reaction : someone bought the Brand Name rights and spinning this c**p to cash in on the online watch market boom.
Did I get it right or did I failed to absorb the marketing message of Doxa?


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

mediasapiens said:


> Well, marketing did not work on me. I was aware of Doxa as a tertiary vintage brand that pops up on EBay once in a while. None of the vintage Doxa watches ever caught my attention to purchase or bid on them. However I was aware of such company existing at some point in the 1960-70s.
> Fast-forward to 2000s and suddenly I see people discussing ugly watches with obnoxiously colored bezels and dials called Doxa and arguing merits of paying 1000s for them. My first reaction : someone bought the Brand Name rights and spinning this c**p to cash in on the online watch market boom.
> Did I get it right or did I failed to absorb the marketing message of Doxa?


And folks here say I'm the negative one...


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

mediasapiens said:


> Well, marketing did not work on me. I was aware of Doxa as a tertiary vintage brand that pops up on EBay once in a while. None of the vintage Doxa watches ever caught my attention to purchase or bid on them. However I was aware of such company existing at some point in the 1960-70s.
> Fast-forward to 2000s and suddenly I see people discussing ugly watches with obnoxiously colored bezels and dials called Doxa and arguing merits of paying 1000s for them. My first reaction : someone bought the Brand Name rights and spinning this c**p to cash in on the online watch market boom.
> Did I get it right or did I failed to absorb the marketing message of Doxa?


Why even bother coming here then?

I for one enjoy my modern Doxa (2020 300t) immensely. I might complain about certain details but overall it's good enough for me to wear it exclusively. 
So Doxa please just keep them coming.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

I would not call it marketing... Or we don't share the same point of view about what marketing really is ...
These are a few precisions from Doxa official that I am happy to read (and trust). In my opinion, the brand is indeed in good hands for the moment.


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

I love my Doxa 300t, what are these problems with Doxa, the company, that our usual moaning members are complaining about?

Plenty of other watches if Doxa are not for you IMO.


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## Henry Bowman (Jan 20, 2019)

I have a nice but small collection, the Doxa 300t that I bought is on the lower end of the scale price wise.
I never wxpected to be so impressed with it that it has gotten more wrist time in the last 6 months then almost all my other watches combined!
It got so bad I installled a spinning wheel app on my phone just to give the others a chance!
I love my Doxa, only difficulty was in getting one here where I live. Had to ship it to the states and have a relative mail it to me.
Worth every penny.
Doxa, thank you for making such a great watch!


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## pureb (Sep 11, 2014)

I genuinely thought DOXA was a US owned company


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## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

That's a whole lot of words to say really nothing. We already knew you were trying to expand Doxa's reach, and it seems to be working which is fantastic.

But it would be nice to get a little idea of what the future really holds....Is there going to be a SS version of the aubrey 600t??? When approximately do you plan to give us more details on the Army? I mean these are the more important details. It's still a lot of silence.

I've been very vocal over the last while about some of the moves you guys have pulled, but I still want what's best for Doxa, and the 600T has got me genuinely excited to purchase a new era Doxa.

But you got to communicate with us a little bit better about what's coming, get some genuine feedback and learn from the community that has fostered the last 20+ years of this wonderful brand.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

Thanks for the feedback. My collection has distilled over the years to just six watches, four Doxa’s, Citizen Diver and a Crepas Sea Project. 

To the people who are always negative, downward facing, why do you even frequent this forum?

Absolutely love the 200 and 300 Subs.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Well the watches are popular - no surprise as most on this forum have more than one - and repeat buying is common in Doxa world so no question as to the overall package if you like the style (nod to mediasapiens who doesn't).

Interesting to hear they still have plans for the Army - I'd thought they were going to let the Doxa "Dartboard" quietly drop. I would only mention that Maranez had no problems producing its Army and the original dialled Samui Diver in short order so it would seem their production facilities and staff (and I doubt they have 4 let alone 42 {including subsidiares!}) are far more capable than Doxa's. Just saying. The rest of the release is basically saying they are working on it (slowly) - I'm thinking their entire back catalogue may be issued for them by other companies before they get round to cherry-picking it if they aren't careful. Thats not to say that the Doxa version won't sell well of course. I hesitate to say they would be the real thing as of course Doxa is resurrected but they do have the real name on them at least and are a great thing to have on your wrist. Would have been nice to have at least an idea of a timeline for upcoming releases to tell us (if they have their plans in place to the end of 2023 then they must have some information to whet our appetites!) but at least its a communication of sorts, so I'm glad to see it. Are they saying they weren't able to release a watch until the HQ Team could get a jolly to the States though?

Seems the thread on the CEO's interview touched a nerve...


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## MaBr (Jan 22, 2018)

JIFB said:


> I would not call it marketing... Or we don't share the same point of view about what marketing really is ...
> These are a few precisions from Doxa official that I am happy to read (and trust). In my opinion, the brand is indeed in good hands for the moment.


It's probably written by someone from marketing, that's what I meant. Or to quote The Talking Heads; "You´re talking a a lot, but you're not saying anything". It's nice and all but "please come to us in Switzerland" isn't exactly how you build trust with customers, that's alienating 99% of them since almost none will have the chance to do that. With that said, I love Doxa, I own two of them and I really look forward to future releases. A stainless 600T with divingstar dial, count me in!


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Crazy Cajun said:


> Thanks for the feedback. My collection has distilled over the years to just six watches, four Doxa's, Citizen Diver and a Crepas Sea Project.
> 
> To the people who are always negative, downward facing, why do you even frequent this forum?
> 
> Absolutely love the 200 and 300 Subs.


Hey if you didn't have us negative Nellys here, you wouldn't have got that response from Doxa today! I look forward to their next divine message (essentially saying 'watch this space'...again) in 8-9 months time. 

You're' welcome.


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

daglesj said:


> Hey if you didn't have us negative Nellys here, you wouldn't have got that response from Doxa today! I look forward to their next divine message (essentially saying 'watch this space'...again) in 8-9 months time.
> 
> You're' welcome.


Would be nice if you were positive about something just once though eh?


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Now lads , no hair pulling allowed mind......



MaBr said:


> It's probably written by someone from marketing, that's what I meant. Or to quote The Talking Heads; "You´re talking a a lot, but you're not saying anything". It's nice and all but "please come to us in Switzerland" isn't exactly how you build trust with customers, that's alienating 99% of them since almost none will have the chance to do that. With that said, I love Doxa, I own two of them and I really look forward to future releases. A stainless 600T with divingstar dial, count me in!


Getting back to the release ....Yeah bit of a cringe-worthy offer that - I said on another thread that it looked like their social media had been passed to a kid to handle... on the other hand they may well be happy to show us all around their premises ... is the offer for their offices or Walca production facilities? And who is going to book the bus - start in the UK and pick up as we go suit everyone?? (Daglesi and Bigclive - you best sit at opposite ends of the bus.....)


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

8505davids said:


> Now lads , no hair pulling allowed mind......
> 
> And who is going to book the bus - start in the UK and pick up as we go suit everyone?? (Daglesi and Bigclive - you best sit at opposite ends of the bus.....)


It's okay as long as he wears a Doxa and not the you know what.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

daglesj said:


> It's okay as long as he wears a Doxa and not the you know what.


No low blows either!


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## mediasapiens (Jul 18, 2019)

If you pay for my diesel I'd go to Doxa headquarters (1h drive) to examine their ''factory''. 😁
Bare in mind that Swiss origin law is like Swiss cheese, full of delicious round holes. Fedlex


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

daglesj said:


> It's okay as long as he wears a Doxa and not the you know what.


What watch do you wear? 167 posts and we haven't seen yet?

Plenty of moans though.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

mediasapiens said:


> If you pay for my diesel I'd go to Doxa headquarters (1h drive) to examine their ''factory''. 😁
> Bare in mind that Swiss origin law is like Swiss cheese, full of delicious round holes. Fedlex


Not just Doxa on that particular bandwagon though...


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## Eddy350 (Jan 27, 2020)

I kinda want a Doxa…


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## leadbelly2550 (Jan 31, 2020)

MaBr said:


> It's probably written by someone from marketing, that's what I meant. Or to quote The Talking Heads; "You´re talking a a lot, but you're not saying anything". It's nice and all but "please come to us in Switzerland" isn't exactly how you build trust with customers, that's alienating 99% of them since almost none will have the chance to do that. With that said, I love Doxa, I own two of them and I really look forward to future releases. A stainless 600T with divingstar dial, count me in!


Nice Talking Heads reference. I prefer James Brown: "Like a dull knife, Just ain't cutting, Just talking loud, Then saying nothing." (I have no particular love or hate for Doxa as a brand; I prefer somewhat different vintage dive watches appearance-wise, but they seem like good watches).


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

Eddy350 said:


> I kinda want a Doxa&#8230;


And why wouldn't you, they are great watches with a real diving history.


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## TOMMYTHUNDERS (Apr 7, 2020)

I've had several Doxas and still have one. I love them. The 600T is dope, looking forward to seeing it in some other colors.


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## SaddleSC (Nov 10, 2010)

Big Brother is watching all of us here! Haha


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## Scbr24 (Oct 21, 2017)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> In the last few days, some false information has been circulated, even some speculations. We simply decided to respond to you directly, humbly to correct some posts.


Can someone explain what these speculations were please?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Well, I for one am happy that there has been some interaction with the Boys from Bienne 

Couple of things struck me....

*We are exactly 42 people at DOXA only today, in the HQ Switzerland in Biel/Bienne, and in our direct subsidiaries in the US such as Germany. *

My first reaction was...doing what? and I'd be looking at them and asking them to justify their position. But then I got to thinking. We here are the Doxa SUB gang, not the Doxa we sell a bunch of other watches mostly in Asia gang. My assumption is all these people will be doing stuff for that operation too. I'd still be interested in just how many people actually work in Switzerland on the SUB line, but more from an academic perspective. I'll bet it isn't that many.

Then there was this

*This is also reflected in the launch plan for the future DOXA Army. We are not interested in launching just a limited edition online. *

said Doxa 2 weeks after launching a limited edition online (SUB 600T). Hmmmmmm

No idea what this means...

*the DOXA HQ team such as living legends in Switzerland *

As for visiting the HQ. Man, if there was any way possible, I'd already be in my truck and hurtling down the motorway. Its on my bucket list.

But hey nice to see someone cared or was worried or whatever enough to put out the missive.


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## Medusa (Feb 6, 2010)

Cool. A thread straight to the source.

I would like a full size 48mm-50mm DOXA that looks like a large SUB 300. 

Other than that, I really like the DOXA brand and its collection. 

Thanks from Alaska, USA.


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## CRW161 (Feb 1, 2016)

8505davids said:


> And who is going to book the bus - start in the UK and pick up as we go suit everyone?? (Daglesi and Bigclive - you best sit at opposite ends of the bus.....)


Can we nip in to Saxony on the way? I would quite like to see GO and ALS.


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## Trog (Nov 16, 2019)

Still rock'in my 200t.....regularly comes up on rotation.


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

Loving my 300t.


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## Ot1S (Apr 18, 2018)

Aaaaaaaaw......that's so sweet.....a personal message to their fans and customers.....saying absolutely nothing.......
@daglesj ....what lume????
"Still really grateful for the unlimited re-release of the 300"
......Still a bit disappointed about the price tag though 😕


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Medusa said:


> Cool. A thread straight to the source.
> 
> I would like a full size 48mm-50mm DOXA that looks like a large SUB 300.
> 
> ...


That's not full size, that's oversized. I hope they won't refocus on such monstrous things

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

CityMorgue said:


> That's a whole lot of words to say really nothing. We already knew you were trying to expand Doxa's reach, and it seems to be working which is fantastic.
> 
> But it would be nice to get a little idea of what the future really holds....Is there going to be a SS version of the aubrey 600t??? When approximately do you plan to give us more details on the Army? I mean these are the more important details. It's still a lot of silence.
> 
> ...


You will rarely get this kind of information from a brand. Reading Doxa message, it is clear that there will be a steady Army model. And from our customer experience, we can almost be sure that the 600 will have a regular production.


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

MaBr said:


> It's probably written by someone from marketing, that's what I meant. Or to quote The Talking Heads; "You´re talking a a lot, but you're not saying anything". It's nice and all but "please come to us in Switzerland" isn't exactly how you build trust with customers, that's alienating 99% of them since almost none will have the chance to do that. With that said, I love Doxa, I own two of them and I really look forward to future releases. A stainless 600T with divingstar dial, count me in!


Still, that is not marketing  . For me, I got some intersting confirmations: small staff, different from Walca, Army to come in regular production, no 'limited editions only' (that works for the 600 too), trying to empower the retail wire, more and more recognition from the watch press. In my opinions, I find it intersting informations when we compare with Doxa status a few years ago.


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

daglesj said:


> Hey if you didn't have us negative Nellys here, you wouldn't have got that response from Doxa today! I look forward to their next divine message (essentially saying 'watch this space'...again) in 8-9 months time.
> 
> You're' welcome.


Frustrated/angry/bitter people are not happy people. You should think about it or stop buyng Doxa watches (if you ever owned one)


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## TOMMYTHUNDERS (Apr 7, 2020)

Ooh, here's a question, has anyone bought a Sub 200 C-graph? I've never seen a wrist shot or heard of anyone owning one. Not here, and not elsewhere on social media. That's a weird one for sure.


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## dubhead (Jan 14, 2020)

Doxa was always on my radar and I am sure I will be part of the tribe soon. At least they try to communicate, and even if it's marketing I rather receive this information than the fashion watch brands cutting out the middleman...


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## jskane (Mar 18, 2020)

I like that Doxa Carbon - tried one on at Watches of Switzerland on a lark, like, three months ago and can't get it out of my head. Pricy though. I snagged a Synchron Military (the PVD one) ... best I can tell it's chunkier than the Sub 300. But yeah, the carbon really stuck with me. I've been meaning to go back and try it again to see if I'm imagining it or not.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

JIFB said:


> Frustrated/angry/bitter people are not happy people. You should think about it or stop buyng Doxa watches (if you ever owned one)


Corporations are there to be ridiculed and criticised. Especially 'luxury goods' companies. If they can't take the odd bit of negative feedback they shouldn't be in business. Plus you'll only ever get crappy products...with poor lume!   Pretending everything is wonderful gets you nowhere.

Expect proper 21st century lume this time next year on all models.

You're welcome...once again.


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## jcohen (Oct 14, 2016)

Marketing release would be a stretch. You would think they had better proof reading. Was this translated from another language?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Absolutely agree. And they deserve to be ridiculed when they start to revise history or ignore where they came from.

This does make me smile

*Our watches are more and more known and recognized, as shown by the more than 200 press articles that are visible on the site (and there are still 300 to be loaded).*

How many of these are just pure cut and paste press releases? Complete regurgitation of what Doxa sent out with nothing but standard studio shots.

I've been putting the ICE era book together (84 pages and nearly finished) and I was gobsmacked at how many exactly the same press release, fluff pieces there were when I was trying to find real reviews and info on the watches.

What was so annoying was the lesser tier blogs who just willy nilly followed the Doxa release without ever checking facts. Anyone ever notice how the SUB was released in 1966 according to these people because the SUB 300 reissue was unveiled in 2016 and it was a 50 year Anniversary or that it was the 300T that was released first. Guess what, news flash, the SUB 300 was the first one and it was Basel 1967...aaaarrrrgggghhh

The biggest sin and it is my pet hate how they blindly follow the new management and call it the Doxa fish. It's the Jenny fish. Absolutely no respect or honor for what Werner Jenny and the Jenny company achieved with the monoblock case and the first ever 1000 meter watch. They just accept the crap that Doxa feeds them.

Is this the Doxa Caribbean? I don't think so.










Here ya go. Here's a Doxa fish










So yea, I'm one of the biggest fanboys of the brand, but I'll still give the management crap when they deserve it.

Here's Pete's tip for the top for the Bienne Boys.. get someone who is an native English speaker to review anything you put out...... before you put it out.

QUOTE="daglesj, post: 54015484, member: 1427601"]
Corporations are there to be ridiculed and criticised. Especially 'luxury goods' companies. If they can't take the odd bit of negative feedback they shouldn't be in business. Plus you'll only ever get crappy products...with poor lume!   Pretending everything is wonderful gets you nowhere.

Expect proper 21st century lume this time next year on all models.

You're welcome...once again.
[/QUOTE]


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## NE_Colour_U_Like (Jun 6, 2021)

I'm not sure what exactly led to this press release... At first I thought it was going to be a response to that lad who came here crying about how Doxa wouldn't honor his custom order, but that didn't turn out to be it.

Agree with others that it was long on words and short on content.

But, I'm also confused about the folks who seem to think Doxa owes them more info/insights about what the future holds. Are there other watch brands that publicly signal their strategies or future releases well ahead of implementation that you wish Doxa would be more like? If so, please name them.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm not sure anyone thinks Doxa owes them more info/insights about what the future holds. However, I do think that many people expect some level of interaction and that is because of what went before. By the looks of your registration date (3 months ago) you are a new kid on the block. Have a look back over the first 18 years of the modern Doxa SUB, there was an immense amount of interaction during the Marei era, there was a lot of sucky stuff to, so it wasn't all sweetness and light. The new Doxa literally did start as something being run from someone's bedroom and grew from that. There are a bunch of people here or no longer here that have to share the credit in bringing the Doxa SUB back from the dead. That's something that the new management chose to forget in their quest to seem like they are Omega.

I'm probably just a foolish idealist but for me, the best companies never forget the garage they started in and some of us foolishly believe that Doxa will remember how the modern iteration came into being and occasionally pander to the rabid fan boys rather than the nouveau multicoloured fashion crowd.

At the end of the day they are just watches.



NE_Colour_U_Like said:


> I'm not sure what exactly led to this press release... At first I thought it was going to be a response to that lad who came here crying about how Doxa wouldn't honor his custom order, but that didn't turn out to be it.
> 
> Agree with others that it was long on words and short on content.
> 
> But, I'm also confused about the folks who seem to think Doxa owes them more info/insights about what the future holds. Are there other watch brands that publicly signal their strategies or future releases well ahead of implementation that you wish Doxa would be more like? If so, please name them.


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## por44 (Dec 21, 2007)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Dear Fans,
> Dear Community,
> 
> DOXA very much values its end-customers, and is working with the discretion that comes from having earned its place in watchmaking industry. We don't often intervene on the forums, because we respect too much the freedom of this dialogue space. Additionally sometimes the comments are even more of a stimulus to listen, and to take care of the development of our watches as well as our customers.
> ...


Not sure what a trip to the HQ would accomplish. 
At the least, it would be interesting.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Yeah its true that some of the English in the release doesn't scan properly or make sense - can't complain too much as its far better than my French or German - hell, even my English isn't too good sometimes, but then I'm not a professional employee trying to communicate. Most of the press releases are just cut and paste - its very noticeable on a search but thats pretty common. On the other hand I think companies should be called out by customers when they prevaricate like politicans - do they really think it won't be seen for what it is?
Guess it raises the point of whether they should involve themselves with forums like this - sure its a good way to reach their customers but also likely to attract more direct, public, minor complaints than praise - and if you launch on the forum and then disappear for long periods thats another cause for complaint. Its fair comment that other companies don't publicise their plans - but, again, if your active on an owners' forum thats probably the main thing you will be asked about and a point of interest for fans of all brands. My point being if you are going to pride yourself on communicating with your customers then that is likely the main thing those customers want to hear about.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

por44 said:


> Not sure what a trip to the HQ would accomplish.
> At the least, it would be interesting.


Would probably turn out to be a modern warehouse on an industrial estate with three offices on top of it.

I can't find any current pics for it so...


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

daglesj said:


> Would probably turn out to be a modern warehouse on an industrial estate with three offices on top of it.


Or it might be an amazing facility with great people who made you really welcome and showed you how the fantastic watches were made.

And you would leave a happy man 🤔


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

NE_Colour_U_Like said:


> But, I'm also confused about the folks who seem to think Doxa owes them more info/insights about what the future holds. Are there other watch brands that publicly signal their strategies or future releases well ahead of implementation that you wish Doxa would be more like? If so, please name them.


I think the situation is this. Doxa is a minor brand. They are less well known in the watch enthusiast arena than a lot of the Chinese homage firms. The irony is that more people will know 'Seestern' in 12 months time than Doxa.

So I think it's important to keep in contact with one of the few hot-spots of Doxa owners and would be buyers worldwide. I would say keep it at arms length and maybe just a news update every couple of months. Could also help with repairs and servicing advice and that's it. It just helps reassure people.


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

daglesj said:


> I think the situation is this. Doxa is a minor brand. They are less well known in the watch enthusiast arena than a lot of the Chinese homage firms. The irony is that more people will know 'Seestern' in 12 months time than Doxa.
> 
> So I think it's important to keep in contact with one of the few hot-spots of Doxa owners and would be buyers worldwide. I would say keep it at arms length and maybe just a news update every couple of months. Could also help with repairs and servicing advice and that's it. It just helps reassure people.


























Doxa are less well known than some Chinese brands 🤔


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

daglesj said:


> So I think it's important to keep in contact with one of the few hot-spots of Doxa owners and would be buyers worldwide. I would say keep it at arms length and maybe just a news update every couple of months. Could also help with repairs and servicing advice and that's it. It just helps reassure people.


I'm thinking the increased awareness of Doxa is more due to increased exposure in forums such as this for an increasing number of watch fans. To be fair most of the comments on the homages' reviews and posts include the words "liked the Doxa style for a while but can't/won't spend that much.." so the awareness seems there and can only increase with the spread of homages. As a cushion case fan Doxas were an obvious interest to me but I put off buying one for years as I didn't think I'd like the steel bezel - ironically when I did take the 'plunge', the bezel was one of the things I liked most! If a £130 homage had been available then to try first I'd have been a Doxa customer much earlier.

From a communication point of view, that's about all that is really needed - a couple of lines to say 'we are working on this and that' - rather than a whole page of prevaricating (that's my word for today) which tends to annoy people. The only thing really to take from it is the Army is still a WIP, which is something.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

8505davids said:


> I'm thinking the increased awareness of Doxa is more due to increased exposure in forums such as this for an increasing number of watch fans. To be fair most of the comments on the homages' reviews and posts include the words "liked the Doxa style for a while but can't/won't spend that much.." so the awareness seems there and can only increase with the spread of homages. As a cushion case fan Doxas were an obvious interest to me but I put off buying one for years as I didn't think I'd like the steel bezel - ironically when I did take the 'plunge', the bezel was one of the things I liked most! If a £130 homage had been available then to try first I'd have been a Doxa customer much earlier.
> 
> From a communication point of view, that's about all that is really needed - a couple of lines to say 'we are working on this and that' - rather than a whole page of prevaricating (that's my word for today) which tends to annoy people. The only thing really to take from it is the Army is still a WIP, which is something.


I must admit had the Seesterns appeared 12 months ago I would have bought one as a 'tester' (I did the same with a Steeldive Tuna) as there are no Doxa retailers within a days travel for me. However, it may have put me off, as when I opened the box to my 300T for the first time, I was shocked at how small it was (I was considering the 1500T but the dumb 21mm lug choice put me off) considering every reviewer goes on at how huge it is (I think watch reviewers lie about their wrist sizes by +1 inch). I didn't take the plastic off it for the first two hours as I really thought I'd send it back.

"Is this really the watch I've watched every review on YouTube and the Internet, saved and saved up for and lusted after for two years?"  

The saving grace was the fact I had a original quality Doxa watch I'd paid £1700 for sitting on my desk. So I kept it and I love it. 

Had it been the Seestern I would have gone "Nah, off to Ebay you go little watch!" (as I did with the Steeldive) and bought the Sinn U1 instead. People would now be rolling their eyes at me on the Sinn part of the forum*.

*Could still happen...


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Well tastes differ in size and perception - to me its as big a watch as you'll ever need, still with a classic style, but with a short L2L that makes it wearable for almost everyone, much like the SKX007. That's good design IMHO. I'd wager more people will buy one of the homages and be pleasantly surprised how well a 43mm watch fits them than will look at it and think it too small.


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

daglesj said:


> I must admit had the Seesterns appeared 12 months ago I would have bought one as a 'tester' (I did the same with a Steeldive Tuna) as there are no Doxa retailers within a days travel for me. However, it may have put me off, as when I opened the box to my 300T for the first time, I was shocked at how small it was (I was considering the 1500T but the dumb 21mm lug choice put me off) considering every reviewer goes on at how huge it is (I think watch reviewers lie about their wrist sizes by +1 inch). I didn't take the plastic off it for the first two hours as I really thought I'd send it back.
> 
> "Is this really the watch I've watched every review on YouTube and the Internet, saved and saved up for and lusted after for two years?"
> 
> ...


You should have gone with the 1500, that was the good idea. The 21 mm lug width is no real issue/problem.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

I bought a Searambler 300 a couple of months ago and I think it is an absolutely awesome watch. I also own 2 Seamasters, 2 Submariners, 3 U1's, a Damasko, some Seikos and some Vostoks, so I have some experience with different watch brands.

I can tell you that in my opinion, the Doxa has the coolest vibe of all of them...except maybe the Ploprof I just got (and my Scuba Dude.

As far as value for money, It is COSC, the case and dial are impeccably machined, the crown stem threads wind smoother than any of my other watches - equal to the Rolexes, and it sits on my wrist beautifully.

Not to mention they are one of the OG dive watch brands with REAL history, not contrived for marketing purposes. They went through a rough patch with the quartz crisis as did hundreds of other brands but seem to be earnestly battling back. So I cant understand the grief Doxa gets from so many on this forum. Methinks they are not fans of the brand at all.


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

RSM13 said:


> I bought a Searambler 300 a couple of months ago and I think it is an absolutely awesome watch. I also own 2 Seamasters, 2 Submariners, 3 U1's, a Damasko, some Seikos and some Vostoks, so I have some experience with different watch brands.
> 
> I can tell you that in my opinion, the Doxa has the coolest vibe of all of them...except maybe the Ploprof I just got (and my Scuba Dude.
> 
> ...


Only grief from a few, mostly are like you real fans 👍


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

JIFB said:


> You should have gone with the 1500, that was the good idea. The 21 mm lug width is no real issue/problem.


Well I really like mixing up straps on my watches and the 1500T is a bit tricky on that front. So it would have cramped me a bit. If I got one in the future it would stay on the bracelet.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

RSM13 said:


> So I cant understand the grief Doxa gets from so many on this forum. Methinks they are not fans of the brand at all.


Never had a good friend that you thought could use some constructive advice? 

I don't think you have to 'love' a brand to like the products. I buy products from many companies that I am no fan of at all. I just think in a difficult/competative world, Doxa could just try 10% harder on a few things.


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

daglesj said:


> Never had a good friend that you thought could use some constructive advice?


Never heard you actually say anything constructive yet.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

daglesj said:


> Never had a good friend that you thought could use some constructive advice?


Constructive advice is different than making snide and needlessly sarcastic remarks, questioning the company's honesty, veracity or integrity which are the posts to which I am referring. No problem with constructive criticism or critiques, but some people are just bomb throwers. But to each his own. Some people posting just seem like really unhappy people.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

RSM13 said:


> Some people posting just seem like really unhappy people.


Things are not all happy clappy right now or for the past 18 months.

If some of us 'bomb throwers' could maybe change something for the better through hints, then it might help Doxa survive, who knows. I do not want Doxa to fail but I won't cry over it if they do and just become a name brand on a contract paper in an office file at Swatch HQ. It won't be my fault. I've bought more Doxa product than 99.9999999999999999% of those currently alive or ever lived so I have a damn right to criticise/comment if I want to. 

At the end of the day I would like to see -

1. Better and standardised lume across all models from 2022.
2. Better dealer networks across the world so people can see the product.
3. Better understanding of service and repair, maybe through the improved dealer network.
4. Get a proper PR & marketing team with better customer engagement. (less bunker mentality)
5. Stop relying on the past so much and limited editions.
6. Less ridiculous prices for accessories. Well no harm in breaking the norm there?

Is that really so bad? Does that hurt anyone's feeling? Too demanding? I don't think so.


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## jcohen (Oct 14, 2016)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm not sure anyone thinks Doxa owes them more info/insights about what the future holds. However, I do think that many people expect some level of interaction and that is because of what went before. By the looks of your registration date (3 months ago) you are a new kid on the block. Have a look back over the first 18 years of the modern Doxa SUB, there was an immense amount of interaction during the Marei era, there was a lot of sucky stuff to, so it wasn't all sweetness and light. The new Doxa literally did start as something being run from someone's bedroom and grew from that. There are a bunch of people here or no longer here that have to share the credit in bringing the Doxa SUB back from the dead. That's something that the new management chose to forget in their quest to seem like they are Omega.
> 
> I'm probably just a foolish idealist but for me, the best companies never forget the garage they started in and some of us foolishly believe that Doxa will remember how the modern iteration came into being and occasionally pander to the rabid fan boys rather than the nouveau multicoloured fashion crowd.
> 
> At the end of the day they are just watches.


I think you nailed it. As someone who has a background in marketing for a large corporation, I believe Doxa is a dream come true. A well established Brand with a wonderful story to be told and a very unique product. They own the Orange dial. I think more engagement and better product distribution in the States is an excellent strategy. I just think they need someone better running the marketing department as this release is poorly written and seems like a reaction to something more than a tactic in a broader strategy.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

daglesj said:


> Things are not all happy clappy right now or for the past 18 months.
> 
> If some of us 'bomb throwers' could maybe change something for the better through hints, then it might help Doxa survive, who knows. I do not want Doxa to fail but I won't cry over it if they do and just become a name brand on a contract paper in an office file at Swatch HQ. It won't be my fault. I've bought more Doxa product than 99.9999999999999999% of those currently alive or ever lived so I have a damn right to criticise/comment if I want to.
> 
> ...


At the end of the day I would like to see -

1. Better and standardised lume across all models from 2022.
2. Better dealer networks across the world so people can see the product.
3. Better understanding of service and repair, maybe through the improved dealer network.
4. Get a proper PR & marketing team with better customer engagement. (less bunker mentality)
5. Stop relying on the past so much and limited editions.
6. Less ridiculous prices for accessories. Well no harm in breaking the norm there?

This seems pretty reasonable to me. I would agree that the price for the rubber strap, while as good as any I have seen, seems extremely high. But Omega and Sinn rubber straps/clasps are equally steep. I dont get that at all. Maybe has something to do with cost per unit sold.

As far as your point 2: I bought my Doxa from Mayors which is owned by WOS and they told me they just recently added Doxa to their line of watches, so that is a big name to add to the dealer list.

Limited Editions can be problematic, just as Panerai.

Relying on the Past? Speedmaster and the moon?

I think my lume is fine on the Searambler but I am not a lume addict.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Now you have piqued my interest.... want to define what constitutes a real fan? Someone here for just over a year and singing praises or someone here for 18 years criticizing?

As for the pictures you posted. Other than Cousteau only anyone interested in Doxa would know what watch was being worn especially the one worn by Redford.

All of us in our little Doxa universe think the rest of the world knows about Doxa and the SUB and the history and Cussler and Cousteau etc. You might be surprised how few people do or actually care.

The present management are doing a great job trying to spread the word but I'll bet if the numbers were known there were a lot more Froggy, Maranez and Seestern homages sold than Doxa SUBs in the last year.



bigclive2011 said:


> Only grief from a few, mostly are like you real fans ?


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Where should Doxa put their advertising dollars to best use?

Rolex uses Golf, Tennis, Equestrian, Auto Racing, Yacht Racing

Omega has James Bond and the Olympics

What should Doxa sponsor or how should they advertise with their limited marketing/advertising budget?


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

RSM13 said:


> Relying on the Past? Speedmaster and the moon?


Don't get me started on that particular one. It's why I got a Lunar-Pilot!


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

And that is a great question. It depends on what kind of a budget they have.

Really quick numbers. 42 staff. Say average of $40,000 a year = $1.6 Million in wages insurance etc. CEO salary. Who the hell knows, but lets even call it $200,000 there's 1.8 million bucks on salaries. Who knows what other costs involved, rent leasing etc etc etc.

How many SUBs do Doxa sell at $2000 a pop. Well they need to sell 900 to cover those costs BUT that is not profit. there is manufacturing, distribution etc etc etc. I think I have an idea of what it would cost to make a SUB as I'm sure others do, but its unknown for the sake of this argument

So the question goes back to how much money do they have to spend on advertising. Big names cost big bucks



RSM13 said:


> Where should Doxa put their advertising dollars to best use?
> 
> Rolex uses Golf, Tennis, Equestrian, Auto Racing, Yacht Racing
> 
> ...


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> And that is a great question. It depends on what kind of a budget they have.
> 
> Really quick numbers. 42 staff. Say average of $40,000 a year = $1.6 Million in wages insurance etc. CEO salary. Who the hell knows, but lets even call it $200,000 there's 1.8 million bucks on salaries. Who knows what other costs involved, rent leasing etc etc etc.
> 
> ...


It is tough for them I am sure. Doxa has great diving heritage - similar to that of Rolex and Omega and Blancpain, but their catalogue and potential customer base is more like Squale (minus the homage collection), almost everything they make is sport dive-watch specific. So what is their potential for big growth? How do they get the word out and get people interested in the brand? They are sort of locked in to being a small niche watch maker.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Enoksen a small UK microbrand has branched out to sponsor some ambassadors/minor sportsmen in tennis/golf etc. And also getting their brand and sponsorship into some minor sporting events. Their budget I would expect is a fraction of Doxa's but they are at least trying. Nice company to do business with too.

You start off small and build up. Little and often.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I agree with both of you. For me it is about focus. The Doxa SUB was a specific niche market originally. Scuba. By the time the Marei era came about the world changed.

Originally dive watches were maybe 90% function and 10% fashion. Maybe now they are 10% function and 90% fashion. These is no doubt ICE era SUBs are aiming at the fashion crowd but still playing to the dive watch community.

There really are only so many dive equipment companies that you can tie into, either because they don't want you or are involved with someone else.

Heritage only goes so far. Cousteau...who's he? that long time dead guy. Cussler, who's he? Didn't he write books. Isn't he's dead now.

Many of us may not think it is being true to the Dive Watch legacy of Doxa but realistically the fashion brand look is probably the more financially sound way to go especially if you want to get past the micro brand scale.



daglesj said:


> It is tough for them I am sure. Doxa has great diving heritage - similar to that of Rolex and Omega and Blancpain, but their catalogue and potential customer base is more like Squale (minus the homage collection), almost everything they make is sport dive-watch specific. So what is their potential for big growth? How do they get the word out and get people interested in the brand? They are sort of locked in to being a small niche watch maker.
> 
> Enoksen a small UK microbrand has branched out to sponsor some ambassadors/minor sportsmen in tennis/golf etc. And also getting their brand and sponsorship into some minor sporting events. Their budget I would expect is a fraction of Doxa's but they are at least trying. Nice company to do business with too.
> 
> You start off small and build up. Little and often.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

daglesj said:


> Enoksen a small UK microbrand has branched out to sponsor some ambassadors/minor sportsmen in tennis/golf etc. And also getting their brand and sponsorship into some minor sporting events. Their budget I would expect is a fraction of Doxa's but they are at least trying. Nice company to do business with too.
> 
> You start off small and build up. Little and often.


Never heard of them.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

RSM13 said:


> Never heard of them.


I wouldnt expect you to have. Only been around three years or so. But they are getting out there in their own little way.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I agree with both of you. For me it is about focus. The Doxa SUB was a specific niche market originally. Scuba. By the time the Marei era came about the world changed.
> 
> Originally dive watches were maybe 90% function and 10% fashion. Maybe now they are 10% function and 90% fashion. These is no doubt ICE era SUBs are aiming at the fashion crowd but still playing to the dive watch community.
> 
> ...


I know 4 scuba divers. None of them had heard of Doxa so...

They do find my love for dive watches amusing and odd. I don't even swim!


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## Dark Overlord (Jul 18, 2016)

I've never understood why people (us collectors I mean) so often get up in arms over brands that are bought and then brought back to life? Esp if they are on the affordable end. Its an odd kind of watch snobbery.

"I only buy watches from brands that can track their lineage to the family of origin! Pass the Grey Poupon."

Most brands we laud over have been sold a couple times at least. Breitling was family until the Schneider era, so that was a problem for collectors. Then it get sold and everyone goes nuts and opines for the Schneider era.

Blancpain was dead. the Swatch group is almost entirely 2nd 3rd or 4th generation buyouts. 

But people pile on Squale, complain about Doxa.

I say if you love watches and you're lucky enough to be able to afford having more than one, buy what you like and enjoy it.

That doesn't mean you can't complain.. don't get me wrong. If the watch doesn't work well, CS treats you like crap, etc. Complain away! I do. I'm simply commenting on the notion I highlighted of lineage.


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## Mr.Boots (Feb 13, 2006)

8505davids said:


> Yeah its true that some of the English in the release doesn't scan properly or make sense - can't complain too much as its far better than my French or German - hell, even my English isn't too good sometimes, but then I'm not a professional employee trying to communicate. Most of the press releases are just cut and paste - its very noticeable on a search but thats pretty common. On the other hand I think companies should be called out by customers when they prevaricate like politicans - do they really think it won't be seen for what it is?
> Guess it raises the point of whether they should involve themselves with forums like this - sure its a good way to reach their customers but also likely to attract more direct, public, minor complaints than praise - and if you launch on the forum and then disappear for long periods thats another cause for complaint. Its fair comment that other companies don't publicise their plans - but, again, if your active on an owners' forum thats probably the main thing you will be asked about and a point of interest for fans of all brands. My point being if you are going to pride yourself on communicating with your customers then that is likely the main thing those customers want to hear about.


Sorry, but I agree with Doc about having someone with literate English skills proofread their copy. A company with their quality and aspirations shouldn't release copy written as though it is a San Martin listing on Ali-Express or eBay.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Mr.Boots said:


> Sorry, but I agree with Doc about having someone with literate English skills proofread their copy. A company with their quality and aspirations shouldn't release copy written as though it is a San Martin listing on Ali-Express or eBay.


Oh burn! 

i think this has been quite cathartic for some of us.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Mr.Boots said:


> Sorry, but I agree with Doc about having someone with literate English skills proofread their copy. A company with their quality and aspirations shouldn't release copy written as though it is a San Martin listing on Ali-Express or eBay.


Think that was pretty much my point as well - maybe my English is 'less good' than even I thought...

Its true Doxa have a dream niche and product for marketing .. but that niche is also limited for expanding sales. It would be interesting to see what proportion of their sales are repeat business and what is new business as they seek to expand their profile.. It made perfect sense for them to issue the 200 as a more affordable entry point and a 'dressier' option, and the same goes for the C graph if it was a more appealing package...but these are still dive/sport orientated - lets face it, there are lots of watch buyers (probably the majority) who just don't like cushion cases.. Would a 'dress' Doxa sell ....tough market getting the brand recognition, a product worthy of aspirational buying etc. They recently said that Doxa stay on the water so seems they have no plans to expand from the sport watch. I for one really object to the bigger players and their 'Brand Ambassadors' adding to the price of the watch I am buying - I certainly wouldn't buy a watch because someone famous was wearing one but I would acknowledge some will and it can bring attention to a previously little known brand. If they go down that route it would have to be someone outside the dive/watersports circles as no one outside these circles is likely to have heard of them ...and its these buyers they need to grow the business I'd say. Big names cost big money as has been said, likely outside Doxa's budget - I hope we don't see too much of that type of promotion. But all advertising is a gamble of course - going really big promoting sports events in competition to Rolex, Omega etc is no guarantee of returns. How did Sinn go about it?


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## Mr.Boots (Feb 13, 2006)

At one time, I owned seven Doxas, now I own none


daglesj said:


> Oh burn!
> 
> i think this has been quite cathartic for some of us.


Just making a point from the point of view of a former English teacher who is a long-time WIS.


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## Mr.Boots (Feb 13, 2006)

A number of my issues with Doxa go back to RM era, just to clarify. Now, I just believe that they are over-priced, but that's me and no reflection on anyone else here.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I almost spat my coffee out at that one. Classic



Mr.Boots said:


> A company with their quality and aspirations shouldn't release copy written as though it is a San Martin listing on Ali-Express or eBay.


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## Mr.Boots (Feb 13, 2006)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I almost spat my coffee out at that one. Classic


Been a long time since the MWR and Unplugged days. Glad to see that still a guy who presents his opinions in a straight forward manner and wears his heart on his sleeve.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

My mum and dad summed it all up for me.

Dad was in hospital dying of lung cancer when I got him a preview copy of the 40th book. He walked round the ward with it telling everyone how his son and Clive Cussler went way back My book made a dying man really proud and happy.

Years later my mum said..... Pete I was so proud of you but I never read the book. It was just about watches.

In many ways they were both right



Mr.Boots said:


> Been a long time since the MWR and Unplugged days. Glad to see that still a guy who presents his opinions in a straight forward manner and wears his heart on his sleeve.


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## TOMMYTHUNDERS (Apr 7, 2020)

Well, I think this thread probably put the nail in the coffin on Doxa ever interacting with fans again. Yeesh.


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## Floyd0706 (Jan 3, 2009)

I guess I've got to join in with my 1200 T


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Here's an idea. Let's just fill the forum with wrist shots.



TOMMYTHUNDERS said:


> Well, I think this thread probably put the nail in the coffin on Doxa ever interacting with fans again. Yeesh.


----------



## lab-guy (Jan 6, 2016)

Crazy Cajun said:


> Thanks for the feedback. My collection has distilled over the years to just six watches, four Doxa's, Citizen Diver and a Crepas Sea Project.
> 
> To the people who are always negative, downward facing, why do you even frequent this forum?
> 
> Absolutely love the 200 and 300 Subs.


Crazy gets it


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Here's an idea. Let's just fill the forum with wrist shots.


No we could never get by without all the moans and snarky comments.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

daglesj said:


> ...*I've bought more Doxa product than 99.9999999999999999% of those currently alive* or ever lived...


And...posted just 5 months ago:

"... This is what I regret about my new Doxa. I've got it too late. *I've just turned 50 and got my first Doxa*..."



daglesj said:


> This is what I regret about my new Doxa. I've got it too late. I've just turned 50 and got my first Doxa. I'll not get to live with it like if I had it at 30. All men should be given a Doxa at 30!


🤷‍♂️


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

TOMMYTHUNDERS said:


> Well, I think this thread probably put the nail in the coffin on Doxa ever interacting with fans again. Yeesh.


Well if you look at the past 2 or 3 posts they put up...would we miss that really? I've had better interaction with stale bread.

Like I said, they need a new PR/Marketing team. After all who does more promotion for them? Do we not enthuse about their product to others?

How many times have you proudly and enthusiastically gone, "Oh yes...my watch...it's a Doxa!"

Only to be met by crushing silence and indifference or "Hmmm never heard of them!" 

We've all been there. Buy hey, we tried!


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Here's an idea. Let's just fill the forum with wrist shots.


The same ones....

Who wants to have some healthy discussion of differing views, when we can have wrist shots and more wrist shots.


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

Loevhagen said:


> And...posted just 5 months ago:
> 
> "... This is what I regret about my new Doxa. I've got it too late. *I've just turned 50 and got my first Doxa*..."
> 
> ?‍♂


The reason he hasn't posted any watch shots is that all his 99.9% has been Doxa baseball caps.

But we don't come here to look at great watches do we, we just come to moan, sorry have healthy discussions.


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## Floyd0706 (Jan 3, 2009)

OK, here's my five cents of view on the Doxa brand.
Some of you may have read the thread on my issue with my 1200 T being sent to Doxa Switzerland for repair. I've been bashing on them quite a bit for the communication problems I've had with them.
But it wasn't Doxa's fault that my watchmaker here in Germany f....d up the case by drilling into it to fit a new crown!!!!
But in the end, Doxa has done a great job to get everything to my fancy. They were so friendly and did everything in their power to get my watch safely to Switzerland without me paying taxes. Hell, they even charged me only half price for a new case!!!
The other thing is that I understand that Doxa is a small company and thus don't have the big money to spend on advertising and employing the big players from marketing as for instance Omega can.And as Doc already stated ,how many Doxas can they sell to pay for all the expenses like salary, advertising , and all other costs ?
How many people buy Doxa watches?
We,the fans tend to forget that Doxa is only known for dive watches. They don't really have a nice dress watch in the line up, do they.
So overall I'm at last, are happy that they still are in existence and trying to make the best they can of what is a niche product.
So let's all calm down a bit and just wait what will happen in the future.
Hell, maybe one day we can even buy merchandise like T-shirts or hats with " Doxa " on it.
Greetings from Germany
Frank S.


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Wrist shots and discussions, ain't mutually exclusive. Having one of those is narrow minded. Having both, shows diversity and engagement.

I have been lied upon by Doxa customer service at some point in time, and that was kinda upsetting. I have then come to realize that Doxa ain't as professional as some other brands. Do I like the Sub 300x-line? Yes. Could Doxa as a company improve towards their customers? Hell yeah.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Which if you really analyze it is exactly what your comment is. It is a moan and snarky comment about moans and snarky comments 

But you know what I get it. No one likes to see their favourite brand hammered. I don't like it and I've probably been more guilty than anyone during the first 6 months of the ICE era, which I actually regret doing, in hindsight.

The way I look at it is kinda harking back to your true fan comment. How many people here have been life long fans of Man United, Chicago Bears, pick your faviourite football team, baseball team whatever and at some stage in the history the management changed or sold the best player or lost 15 games in a row. How vocal were you against that stuff. It didn't stop you being a rabid supporter but you were pretty pissed off I'll bet.

I know nothing about American football but just go google Cleveland Browns. I used to live there and man, those guys were really the definition of true fans. I think the Browns hold the record for going something like a whole season and not winning one game.

Heck, the DOXA management are Bill Shankly by comparison 



bigclive2011 said:


> No we could never get by without all the moans and snarky comments.


----------



## Mr.Boots (Feb 13, 2006)

Floyd0706 said:


> OK, here's my five cents of view on the Doxa brand.
> Some of you may have read the thread on my issue with my 1200 T being sent to Doxa Switzerland for repair. I've been bashing on them quite a bit for the communication problems I've had with them.
> But it wasn't Doxa's fault that my watchmaker here in Germany f....d up the case by drilling into it to fit a new crown!!!!
> But in the end, Doxa has done a great job to get everything to my fancy. They were so friendly and did everything in their power to get my watch safely to Switzerland without me paying taxes. Hell, they even charged me only half price for a new case!!!
> ...


I've bought Doxa T-shirts and caps in the past from them. Must have stopped offering them.


----------



## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Which if you really analyze it is exactly what your comment is. It is a moan and snarky comment about moans and snarky comments
> 
> But you know what I get it. No one likes to see their favourite brand hammered. I don't like it and I've probably been more guilty than anyone during the first 6 months of the ICE era, which I actually regret doing, in hindsight.
> 
> ...


For me I just do watches.

The Doxa 300 of today looks just as beautiful as the ones that Jacques Cousteau was wearing in his high days.

I try not to concern myself with management issues, that is way over my pay grade, I'm just your end consumer still enjoying the watches.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Exactly and who wouldn't love these bad boys a generation apart 












bigclive2011 said:


> For me I just do watches.
> 
> The Doxa 300 of today looks just as beautiful as the ones that Jacques Cousteau was wearing in his high days.
> 
> I try not to concern myself with management issues, that is way over my pay grade, I'm just your end consumer still enjoying the watches.


----------



## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Exactly and who wouldn't love these bad boys a generation apart
> 
> View attachment 16126548


Fabulous&#8230;.that's what it's all about.


----------



## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

As I've said before, thats how you do a domed crystal on the left. Not the front off a washing machine door.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks. Its the first picture in the chapter on the ICE era SUB 300. Hoping to have the book finished and free to download by the end of the weekend



bigclive2011 said:


> Fabulous&#8230;.that's what it's all about.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Jeezus, more coffee out the nose. Priceless. That really made me laugh.

Come on guys you have to admit that was pretty darned witty



daglesj said:


> As I've said before, thats how you do a domed crystal on the left. Not the front off a washing machine door.


----------



## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Dear Fans,
> Dear Community,
> 
> In the last few days, some false information has been circulated, even some speculations. We simply decided to respond to you directly, humbly to correct some posts.
> ...


Where and what was that false information and speculation? The response doesn't seem to do much more than tell us about Doxa. Not a bad thing but doesn't refer to any false info or speculation.

BTW, since I have your ear (I doubt it but........) it would be great if you fixed the luminescence problem in Doxa DIVE watches. It would keep me from selling a few months after buying. I love the brand.


----------



## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Loevhagen said:


> And...posted just 5 months ago:
> 
> "... This is what I regret about my new Doxa. I've got it too late. *I've just turned 50 and got my first Doxa*..."
> 
> ?‍♂


OMG...that is a dagger! Dont know how Dagelsj can post ever again. Credibility: DESTROYED


----------



## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Loevhagen said:


> Wrist shots and discussions, ain't mutually exclusive. Having one of those is narrow minded. Having both, shows diversity and engagement.
> 
> I have been lied upon by Doxa customer service at some point in time, and that was kinda upsetting. I have then come to realize that Doxa ain't as professional as some other brands. Do I like the Sub 300x-line? Yes. Could Doxa as a company improve towards their customers? Hell yeah.


Many years ago I sent my 1969 Rolex Submariner to the RSC in Dallas with a written note and a phone call not to replace the hands on my 5513. They matched the dial patina.

After assurances they would leave them as is, my watch returned from them with brand new hands. Their response was basically there was nothing they could do about it.

Point is no watch company is perfect in Customer service. Is Doxa significantly worse than others?

I dont know.


----------



## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

RSM13 said:


> OMG...that is a dagger! Dont know how Dagelsj can post ever again. Credibility: DESTROYED


Yeah I was destroyed. I guess you cannot have a negative opinion or any opinion about a Doxa unless you've owned 5 of them for 20+ years or are Dirk Pitt?


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I nearly met Dirk Pitt  I was on a NUMA project with Ralph Willbanks. Pitt never showed up but Ralph had a Doxa



daglesj said:


> Yeah I was destroyed. I guess you cannot have a negative opinion or any opinion about a Doxa unless you've owned 5 of them for 20+ years or are Dirk Pitt?


----------



## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

daglesj said:


> Yeah I was destroyed. I guess you cannot have a negative opinion or any opinion about a Doxa unless you've owned 5 of them for 20+ years or are Dirk Pitt?


LOL....As if that is what this is about. You got busted for being a Know-NOTHING instead of a know-it-all. It was about your BOAST that you have owned more DOXA's that 99.999999% of the people here, portraying yourself as some professor emeritus of all things DOXA when in reality you are basically a blowhard.

Any comment you have means less than nothing.

That is the comedy.


----------



## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

RSM13 said:


> LOL....As if that is what this is about. You got busted for being a Know-NOTHING instead of a know-it-all. It was about your BOAST that you have owned more DOXA's that 99.999999% of the people here, portraying yourself as some professor emeritus of all things DOXA when in reality you are basically a blowhard.
> 
> Any comment you have means less than nothing.
> 
> That is the comedy.


I meant on earth, not on the forum lol. I have one Doxa watch, that is more Doxas than most people on earth. Most people on earth have never heard of Doxa.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Lets call it a lost in translation over the Atlantic kind of thing. Anyway it gives me a chance to point out how simple things like a missed punctuation can make a big difference

I wrote this

I've given up drinking for a month

what I meant to write was

I've given up, drinking for a month

Ok, I'll get my coat, try the veal, I'll be here all week 



daglesj said:


> I meant on earth, not on the forum lol. I have one Doxa watch, that is more Doxas than most people on earth. Most people on earth have never heard of Doxa.


----------



## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Lets call it a lost in translation over the Atlantic kind of thing. Anyway it gives me a chance to point out how simple things like a missed punctuation can make a big difference
> 
> I wrote this
> 
> ...


I know. I do find it amusing that people can take offence at criticism of a fancy watch company. I mean there are far more important things you should take offence at really. I'm not really taking this all that serious myself but it's amusing to see.

You know, Doxa...sort out your lume! (switches to Jim Gaffigan shocked audience voice) "Oh no! How could he say that, Doxa are a lovely company!"

However, if that's all they have to get annoyed about, they should think themselves lucky I guess.


----------



## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

RSM13 said:


> It is tough for them I am sure. Doxa has great diving heritage - similar to that of Rolex and Omega and Blancpain, but their catalogue and potential customer base is more like Squale (minus the homage collection), almost everything they make is sport dive-watch specific. So what is their potential for big growth? How do they get the word out and get people interested in the brand? They are sort of locked in to being a small niche watch maker.


I think you hit the point.


----------



## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

In answer to an earlier post I think this release was in response to some speculation on the CEO's interview thread where the likely numbers of staff at Doxa was discussed, amongst other things.

It could be seen as a good thing that people care enough about the product to nit-pick so much about the little things - the only other forum I really pay attention to is my first love Zenith and there is some on there (surprise surprise mostly about price/discounts and design) but then again a lot of the discussion is on older models.

I don't see much complaint on here about the product itself (other than the obvious lume), more that Doxa have a habit of (wouldn't go as far as say 'shoot themselves in the foot') but being a tad vague when they try to clarify things or communicate, which is a little annoying. It could be of course that they are to a degree still finding their way as a retail customer facing operation - other than Walca I know little of their experience or other operations before they 'took back' the Doxa line.

I'd also say that if there was no contrary opinion then there'd be no discussion - and a company can learn more from its customers' reasonable criticism than just praise.


----------



## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

RSM13 said:


> Never heard of them.


Same for me.
I just look at their website. Nothing extraordinary/that makes envy


----------



## BSwed (Jul 14, 2021)

8505davids said:


> I don't see much complaint on here about the product itself (other than the obvious lume), more that Doxa have a habit of (wouldn't go as far as say 'shoot themselves in the foot') but being a tad vague when they try to clarify things or communicate, which is a little annoying. It could be of course that they are to a degree still finding their way as a retail customer facing operation - other than Walca I know little of their experience or other operations before they 'took back' the Doxa line.
> 
> I'd also say that if there was no contrary opinion then there'd be no discussion - and a company can learn more from its customers' reasonable criticism than just praise.


Well, even though most of us loves their products I think we are also a bit stunned that they don't fix things that quite a few has pointed out here in the forum. Right now I'm thinking specifically about the design of the 300T bracelet and how it interacts with the end links/case - that it prevents the adjacent BOR-links to the case from having full movement. It just seems like a so easy thing to fix - why not just do it?


----------



## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

8505davids said:


> In answer to an earlier post I think this release was in response to some speculation on the CEO's interview thread where the likely numbers of staff at Doxa was discussed, amongst other things.
> 
> It could be seen as a good thing that people care enough about the product to nit-pick so much about the little things - the only other forum I really pay attention to is tmy first love Zenith and there is some on there (surprise surprise mostly about price/discounts and design) but then again a lot of the discussion is on older models.
> 
> ...


You get it. Otherwise as we said earlier, all we'd have is wrist shots and "Which colour is best?" threads.

You'll always have die-hard fanboys that take it really personally. Like you've criticised their wife. I don't get it myself. Misplaced loyalty?


----------



## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

BSwed said:


> Well, even though most of us loves their products I think we are also a bit stunned that they don't fix things that quite a few has pointed out here in the forum. Right now I'm thinking specifically about the design of the 300T bracelet and how it interacts with the end links/case - that it prevents the adjacent BOR-links to the case from having full movement. It just seems like a so easy thing to fix - why not just do it?


Yep thats a good point, forgot about that one.

I'd also say it shouldn't matter how long you've been a Doxa customer or how good a customer you are to comment on this forum but preferably criticisms should be fair and constructive though I'm sure most of us has vented a little Doxa induced frustration occasionally! After all , a company can learn almost as much from why people aren't buying their products as why they are.

daglesj - you are still up the back of the bus with the other bad lads for the Doxa trip.


----------



## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Thanks. Its the first picture in the chapter on the ICE era SUB 300. Hoping to have the book finished and free to download by the end of the weekend


Great&#8230; I look forward to reading that ?


----------



## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

8505davids said:


> daglesj - you are still up the back of the bus with the other bad boys for the Doxa trip.


I'll wear my biker jacket and bring my flick-comb. Might be half a bottle of vodka I swiped from my Mum's drink cabinet to share, if you think you're cool enough?


----------



## CityMorgue (Jun 30, 2009)

To those that criticize those of us who have criticized Doxa, I get it. I do, but you have to see our point of view as well. I've been a fan of this brand for 12 years now. At my peak, I owned 10 different Doxas, went down to 1, now back up to 4, and still plan on getting more. I do love this brand, but I'm not so blind as to see the faults and missteps that they have made. And this includes the Marei days as well. In some aspects, the previous years of Doxa had better communication. This mostly came in the forum of actually teasing and hinting and even straight up asking what we want to see Doxa produce here in this forum. On the other hand, the other forms of communication were honestly just as terrible as the new management. It sucks to see that trend has continued unfortunately.

I've heaped a lot of criticism on Doxa, but I've also been quite surprised and applauded Doxa on some of the moves they've tried to make, only to stumble in some way. But I can still appreciate the thought process behind some of the decisions. 

I've noticed a general trend that those that don't like some of us saying anything negative about Doxa are relatively newer fans. There's nothing wrong with that, but some of us has also been around long enough to know enough history to call out when something isn't quite right. It's also weird that if some of us have anything remotely critical, we are labeled as brand haters or don't even own the watch... Ya'll can take a hike in that case. Most of us who have had anything bad to say have owned many Doxas over the years. I seriously don't know where this notion has come that you can only be a true fan of a brand if you do nothing but heap praise on them. You can still like something and suggest improvements.


----------



## NS1 (May 12, 2015)

BSwed said:


> Well, even though most of us loves their products I think we are also a bit stunned that they don't fix things that quite a few has pointed out here in the forum. Right now I'm thinking specifically about the design of the 300T bracelet and how it interacts with the end links/case - that it prevents the adjacent BOR-links to the case from having full movement. It just seems like a so easy thing to fix - why not just do it?


And yet. . . what a great way to sell more watches. Doxa re-releases the 1200T, but does not sell bracelets separately. How many 300T's go up for sale as people replace them with the new 1200T?


----------



## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

NS1 said:


> And yet. . . what a great way to sell more watches. Doxa re-releases the 1200T, but does not sell bracelets separately. How many 300T's go up for sale as people replace them with the new 1200T?


What is the re-release of the 1200T you are talking about?  
Anyway, people just should do like me: prefer some rubber stap instead of metallic bracelets: such a great variety of look and pleasure to wear, not to mention you avoid a (probably good I must admit) reason to complain


----------



## Floyd0706 (Jan 3, 2009)

Doxa re- releases the 1200T?
That'll be nice!!! If that's true, two of them are mine!!!!!


NS1 said:


> And yet. . . what a great way to sell more watches. Doxa re-releases the 1200T, but does not sell bracelets separately. How many 300T's go up for sale as people replace them with the new 1200T?


----------



## CMSgt Bo (Feb 12, 2006)

RSM13 said:


> It is tough for them I am sure. Doxa has great diving heritage - similar to that of Rolex and Omega and Blancpain, but their catalogue and potential customer base is more like Squale (minus the homage collection), almost everything they make is sport dive-watch specific. So what is their potential for big growth? How do they get the word out and get people interested in the brand? They are sort of locked in to being a small niche watch maker.


You guys do know Doxa is a sizable manufacturer who makes thousands of watches a year outside of their Sub line, right?


----------



## Diogenes (Dec 29, 2015)

I pop on here a few times per week, and honestly, do not know to what this address from Corporate is alluding!
Did someone start a thread that they (Jenny) were selling off parts of the company to Seiko? The provocative thread must have been removed...
Puzzling to me indeed!


----------



## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Gosh this thread sums up the sub forum so well. 

Regardless, Doxa is moving from the online-only, limited edition-only model to one that has consistent supply online and in a few stores. And to that I say **** yeah. **** yeah I want Doxa to expand to have a consistent line that is always available. **** yeah I want them to expand their market presence both upmarket and downmarket. Why? Because Doxa watches are unique and kick ass and I don’t want them to see the same fate as other “revived” dive watch brands.


----------



## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Diogenes said:


> I pop on here a few times per week, and honestly, do not know to what this address from Corporate is alluding!
> Did someone start a thread that they (Jenny) were selling off parts of the company to Seiko? The provocative thread must have been removed...
> Puzzling to me indeed!


Well as far as I know myself and FlyingDoctor made guesstimates at Doxa's size and size of staff in the 'video from CEO' thread.

So...


----------



## Floyd0706 (Jan 3, 2009)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Absolutely agree. And they deserve to be ridiculed when they start to revise history or ignore where they came from.
> 
> This does make me smile
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Dear Sir,
I've bought all your books on Doxa,(even bought the 10 years in hardcover just today) but I've got a question. What does "ICE" Era mean, and when is that Book coming out,will there be a hardcover version also?
Thanks for your time sir.
Best regards from Germany
Frank S.


----------



## Robotaz (Jan 18, 2012)

I don’t understand this.

The post from Doxa doesn’t tell me what they’re addressing, or anything different from what I basically knew.

And the replies from many members here are just asinine, as usual. Sounds like people crying over nothing, again as usual.

I get WUS people being asinine, but what is this Doxa post addressing? Please if you just want to rant or vent your misery, just shut up and let a mature adult reply.

Thanks.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Here is an extract from the book which should clear things up

Book will be available as a free download tomorrow, assuming a watch I ordered arrives tomorrow. I need one final photo.

I will make a hard copy of the book myself via Lulu and if people want one I guess I make it available. It was never designed to be a printed book except for me but then I only thought it would be 20 pages maximum. Ended up 100. Should have known by now 

EDIT: Although this is primarily about the last 2 years, there is a bunch of historical stuff that isn't in any of the other books. I think people will find it interesting.

Dear Sir,
I've bought all your books on Doxa,(even bought the 10 years in hardcover just today) but I've got a question. What does "ICE" Era mean, and when is that Book coming out,will there be a hardcover version also?
Thanks for your time sir.
Best regards from Germany
Frank S.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Floyd0706 (Jan 3, 2009)

QUOTE="Flyingdoctor, post: 54028721, member: 294"]
Here is an extract from the book which should clear things up

Book will be available as a free download tomorrow, assuming a watch I ordered arrives tomorrow. I need one final photo.

I will make a hard copy of the book myself via Lulu and if people want one I guess I make it available. It was never designed to be a printed book except for me but then I only thought it would be 20 pages maximum. Ended up 100. Should have known by now 

EDIT: Although this is primarily about the last 2 years, there is a bunch of historical stuff that isn't in any of the other books. I think people will find it interesting
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

Dear Dr.Millar,
Thanks for your fast reply on my questions. Now I understand the ice term and are looking forward to buying your new book. Can't wait to flip the pages. I'm totally hooked on Doxa since I saw the ads online from the Marei era. And I was lucky to grab one of the 1200T's when they where still available back in 2019.
But the latest price increases worry me. Since I'm not a rich man and my Grail Doxa is a Searambler Aqua Lung,if I ever get the luck of finding one, I probably have to sell my beloved Fortis B-42 Chrono .
I really enjoy your posts of insight on Doxa watches. Keep up the good work and good health to you and your family.
Greetings
Frank S


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Thank you Frank

Check you messages. I sent you a link for a sneak peek to the almost finished version

Yea, be careful of these Doxa watches. They are addictive 



Floyd0706 said:


> QUOTE="Flyingdoctor, post: 54028721, member: 294"]
> Here is an extract from the book which should clear things up
> 
> Book will be available as a free download tomorrow, assuming a watch I ordered arrives tomorrow. I need one final photo.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Dear Dr.Millar,
Thanks for your fast reply on my questions. Now I understand the ice term and are looking forward to buying your new book. Can't wait to flip the pages. I'm totally hooked on Doxa since I saw the ads online from the Marei era. And I was lucky to grab one of the 1200T's when they where still available back in 2019.
But the latest price increases worry me. Since I'm not a rich man and my Grail Doxa is a Searambler Aqua Lung,if I ever get the luck of finding one, I probably have to sell my beloved Fortis B-42 Chrono .
I really enjoy your posts of insight on Doxa watches. Keep up the good work and good health to you and your family.
Greetings
Frank S
[/QUOTE]


----------



## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Here is an extract from the book which should clear things up
> 
> Book will be available as a free download tomorrow, assuming a watch I ordered arrives tomorrow. I need one final photo.
> 
> ...


Doc you probably already caught it but on page 2 of that PDF the page number cuts off some of the advertising text.

Looks great can't wait to read it.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks. Yea it bugged me. I'll remove the page number.



NeurosciGuy15 said:


> Doc you probably already caught it but on page 2 of that PDF the page number cuts off some of the advertising text.
> 
> Looks great can't wait to read it.


----------



## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Dear Fans,
> Dear Community,
> 
> DOXA very much values its end-customers, and is working with the discretion that comes from having earned its place in watchmaking industry. We don't often intervene on the forums, because we respect too much the freedom of this dialogue space. Additionally sometimes the comments are even more of a stimulus to listen, and to take care of the development of our watches as well as our customers.
> ...



Having seen your office space, I will beg to differ, but wish you the very best of success.


----------



## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Well, I for one am happy that there has been some interaction with the Boys from Bienne
> 
> Couple of things struck me....
> 
> ...


As gently as I can say this - I have been in the parking lot where DOXA HQ is. I am a reasonable guy, but watches are as likely assembled there as at a "31 Flavors". Unless DOXA has bulked up dramatically, I suspect the number 42 that you are reading refers to all staffers for DOXA, Walca and every other entity.

Ever seen the DOXA "Factory"? Of course not. This is not an assertion of country of origin, etc., but it is to say simply that DOXA is essentially a label or brand that is owned by the Jenny family and is produced by Walca. Walca is, essentially, a "white label" company that makes and assembles watches for a lot of other brands as well as the Jenny's own DOXA brand. Again, nothing wrong with that. But the "Come and visit us and see for yourself" rings a bit hollow, as judging from the fairly modest size of even the admin area, you would be done with the tour before you stepped out of the washroom. I will put it another way - if there are 42 people working at DOXA, then the communications, manufacturing sales and marketing efforts are pretty shameful ; )

And should you ever find yourself in Biel/Bienne (as I was two weeks ago), you can "drop by" the office/offices and see for yourself. Just leave the engine running, it's going to be a quick visit.


----------



## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Absolutely agree. And they deserve to be ridiculed when they start to revise history or ignore where they came from.
> 
> This does make me smile
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

As the "Native English Speaker" who was charged with trying to make sense of what was going out to the public nearly 15 years ago, I agree that English is a tricky language to master ; ) Having said that, if the bombast and self-adulation is a bit much, it is just as thick and rich as it was when I reported to Mr. Marei. It would seem that nobody has a monopoly on hyperbole.


----------



## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Henki said:


> As gently as I can say this - I have been in the parking lot where DOXA HQ is. I am a reasonable guy, but watches are as likely assembled there as at a "31 Flavors". Unless DOXA has bulked up dramatically, I suspect the number 42 that you are reading refers to all staffers for DOXA, Walca and every other entity.
> 
> Ever seen the DOXA "Factory"? Of course not. This is not an assertion of country of origin, etc., but it is to say simply that DOXA is essentially a label or brand that is owned by the Jenny family and is produced by Walca. Walca is, essentially, a "white label" company that makes and assembles watches for a lot of other brands as well as the Jenny's own DOXA brand. Again, nothing wrong with that. But the "Come and visit us and see for yourself" rings a bit hollow, as judging from the fairly modest size of even the admin area, you would be done with the tour before you stepped out of the washroom. I will put it another way - if there are 42 people working at DOXA, then the communications, manufacturing sales and marketing efforts are pretty shameful ; )
> 
> And should you ever find yourself in Biel/Bienne (as I was two weeks ago), you can "drop by" the office/offices and see for yourself. Just leave the engine running, it's going to be a quick visit.


I called it!  Some want to believe in the dream and the myth...but some of us just know corporate BS when we smell it.

*DOXA Watches Ltd.*
Rue de Zurich 23A
2500 Biel/Bienne
Switzerland

Pop that into Google Maps and take a look. 

Oh well cancel the minibus lads! Unless we do a Belgian beer tour instead?


----------



## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Looks pretty abandoned...


----------



## Bob1035 (Nov 26, 2019)

Right down the street


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Perhaps work harder to educate those entrusted with maintaining the namesake in other countries. Doxa USA has permanetly tarnished your name her in the States over one transaction so poorly handled that I not only never will own a DOXA again but will take it a step further to sell my perfectly operating Jenny Reissue so as to have no ties to the name in my moderate collection of dive watches that I have amassed in 25 years of collecting.

Their ideas of service and customer appreciation are about as far removed as their actual watch knowledge.


----------



## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> Perhaps work harder to educate those entrusted with maintaining the namesake in other countries. Doxa USA has permanetly tarnished your name her in the States over one transaction so poorly handled that I not only never will own a DOXA again but will take it a step further to sell my perfectly operating Jenny Reissue so as to have no ties to the name in my moderate collection of dive watches that I have amassed in 25 years of collecting.
> 
> Their ideas of service and customer appreciation are about as far removed as their actual watch knowledge.


Oh I doubt they are that concerned over the sale of one watch. Most here are pretty committed or already got theirs so...

Put it behind you and move on.


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

daglesj said:


> Oh I doubt they are that concerned over the sale of one watch. Most here are pretty committed or already got theirs so...
> 
> Put it behind you and move on.


Clearly they don't give a SH*T about their customers in general. Although Last I saw the US market was among the highest in purchases of luxury watches... SOOOooooo... maybe they should put some efforts in training... seeing as the agent I spoke with had no idea what the rotor did in an automatic watch...

I've moved on and bought something that's better suited for my needs in that it keeps time, but I will forever share my Doxa USA experience whenever possible.  back atcha kiddo!


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## B_Shakes (Nov 16, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Book will be available as a free download tomorrow, assuming a watch I ordered arrives tomorrow. I need one final photo.


Doc...Just a new member here to WUS but long time admirer of your website and the reviews that were done there. Didn't realize these books were available and free to download, but this post tipped me off and I just found the web location of them. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this brand! Cheers.


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## bruins443 (Jul 2, 2019)

I was debating of getting fully into Doxa for a bit with the new 600T and a pre-owned 300T. Reading this forum cast some doubt on that. I do want to say that I don't mind the brand being a marketing exercise, as long as product quality is solid.

What I see is an amateurish org -- here they are sponsoring one of the top watch forums and then they don't interact with it at all. They should be here, reddit, and on rolex and omega forums all the time, reading and responding. The one guy that had issues with his return, single datapoint it may be, also points to that they don't have their ducks in a row (any issues in the first 3 months? straight exchange, no questions asked!).

Gotta think about this a bit more.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

I have to say I love my 300T I got in April. Would I buy another Doxa? Probably not. Not because of any gripes with the company or quality but because the range doesn't have anything else that attracts me or differentiates enough for me.

I see that as a good thing as it means I'm free to look at other brands to try out instead of buying the same/similar watch in 4 different colours. If that floats your boat then great but its not enough of a draw for me. My other half would step in...

One and done.

As for Doxa, I think they mean well but it's probably the type of company that someone else externally holds the purse strings and the decisions have to be referred up and up and takes a while to get back. A hobby brand possibly at the moment but you know a lot of big craft beer companies started off that way and have grown massive selling beer that all tastes of grapefruit!


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

daglesj said:


> I have to say I love my 300T I got in April. Would I buy another Doxa? Probably not. Not because of any gripes with the company or quality but because the range doesn't have anything else that attracts me or differentiates enough for me.
> 
> I see that as a good thing as it means I'm free to look at other brands to try out instead of buying the same/similar watch in 4 different colours. If that floats your boat then great but its not enough of a draw for me. My other half would step in...
> 
> ...


Hi - in fact that was formerly the case insofar as the SUB went. Rick Marei licensed the rights to make and sell the watches, DOXA via their white label company - Walca - made the watches and sold them to Rick. Rick in turn sold them through Synchron. 

Flash forward to 2019, Jan Edochs (new CEO) comes in, starts flexing, and by BaselWorld 2019 Rick is informed that he (and Synchron) are now surplus to requirements.

The Jenny family owns DOXA and Walca (i.e. they "control the means of production"). What seems clear is that they have not really mastered the direct to customer (B2C) format. And Mr. Edochs does not really have that background as he is used to running and working in a more traditional distribution model.

In fairness to the "new regime" they are very good at traditional marketing - they are plumping for this space, and appear to be "duking" (paying an advertorial style retainer) more than one "online magazine" to ensure that their releases are always covered. And fair enough, it is a business after all ; ) 

But it is very important to bear in mind that DOXA as a brand is not really operating as many folks here on the forum have (in fairness) historically been led to believe it was/is. Modern DOXA was (and is) essentially a white label brand. Having said that, the Jenny family owns both the white label assembler - Walca, and the brand that is being marketed - DOXA. There is not a DOXA factory as such, and the "HQ" is essentially office space, in the same office park space as... Walca!


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## trianglebrick (Jul 26, 2009)

So where is Walca the manufacturer located? I am hoping and assuming Austria or Switzerland? Hope not China!


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## Columbo82 (Jan 22, 2021)

In Switzerland.

www.walca.ch


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## Loevhagen (Dec 15, 2013)

Same address - according to the respective home pages for each one:

*DOXA Watches Ltd.*
Rue de Zurich 23A
2500 Biel/Bienne
Switzerland

*Walca SA*
Rue de Zürich 23 A
2500 Biel / Bienne
Switzerland


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Another important thing to bear in mind, the Walca offices in Biel/Bienne are just that - offices.


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## trianglebrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Henki said:


> Another important thing to bear in mind, the Walca offices in Biel/Bienne are just that - offices.


So where are Doxa’s actually manufactured and put together in China or Switzerland?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Here are the facts......

A Doxa SUB says Swiss Made on the dial

A watch is considered “Swiss” if:

1. The movement is deemed Swiss (definition of Swiss movement below)
2. The movement was cased in Switzerland and
3. The final inspection was carried out in Switzerland

A watch movement is considered “Swiss” if: 
1. The movement was assembled in Switzerland
2. The movement was inspected in Switzerland and 
3. *At least 60% of the total cost of the movement, not including assembly labor, is derived from Swiss-manufactured components. *

So, this means that a Swiss movement can contain 40% non Swiss manufactured parts.

So that takes care of the movement but note how none of the above mentions, case, crown, caseback, crystal, bracelet, packaging etc.

Given that Walca has an operation outside of Switzerland where they manufacture watch 'bits' for other companies based on cost of production etc etc. Where would you think it would be best to manufacture the other bits of a watch that are not necessary to constitute Swiss made?

Where do Apple make their phones, where do Samsung make their screens etc etc etc? Wherever it is cheapest but still maintain the necessary quality. Today it is mainly China, tomorrow it may be India, 30 years from now it may be Australia. Ultimately it doesn't matter. Doxa set out to make a Swiss Made watch. That's what they achieve. 

To make an absolutely 100% made in Switzerland watch would be horrendously expensive and for me, personally, why would you want to. The Marei era SUB 300T Reissue and SUB 600T were the most 'Swiss Made' modern Doxas ever made. Can you tell the difference in quality between one of them and an ICE Era SUB 300T? 

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I was a Lead Assessor for ISO 9000 / 9001 Quality Management systems. I lived in China for 5 years. The best Quality Management system I ever audited and awarded a certificate to was a company based in Dalian, North China. Ultimately it is about the quality of the product, not where it is made.

Enjoy your Doxa SUB.


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## trianglebrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Here are the facts......
> 
> A Doxa SUB says Swiss Made on the dial
> 
> ...


Great info Doc thanks


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## bruins443 (Jul 2, 2019)

Henki said:


> Flash forward to 2019, Jan Edochs (new CEO) comes in, starts flexing, and by BaselWorld 2019 Rick is informed that he (and Synchron) are now surplus to requirements.


Your post prompted me to read up on Jan Edöcs. Jan was at (CEO?) Milus when it was sold to Chinese investors and stayed there for 10 years. In his interview he tried to portray it as a success, yet the reality is that it ended up in a complete failure. After he left, the Milus brand was sold back to Luc Tissot and is in "restarting mode".

Sold out to Chinese investors, raised prices to point where brand failed. I hope our boy Jan learned a lesson and he does not do a number on Doxa. I am somewhat suspicious looking at the recent quality and design issues on the 600T.


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Here are the facts......
> 
> A Doxa SUB says Swiss Made on the dial
> 
> ...


An important thing that also gets lost in the "Swiss made - what does it really mean?" discussion is that the majority of white label companies (which is what Walca is) typically act as "general contractors", meaning that they gather the parts and arrange for them to be brought to an assembler for, well, assembly. It also bears mentioning that the Jura (where DOXA & Walca are located) is jammed with such assemblers. The use of an assembler does not make any watch brand any more, or any less Swiss.


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## JOPatt14 (Dec 20, 2019)

lughugger said:


> So what’s this all about then? Asking genuinely.


I'm confused?


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

bruins443 said:


> Your post prompted me to read up on Jan Edöcs. Jan was at (CEO?) Milus when it was sold to Chinese investors and stayed there for 10 years. In his interview he tried to portray it as a success, yet the reality is that it ended up in a complete failure. After he left, the Milus brand was sold back to Luc Tissot and is in "restarting mode".
> 
> Sold out to Chinese investors, raised prices to point where brand failed. I hope our boy Jan learned a lesson and he does not do a number on Doxa. I am somewhat suspicious looking at the recent quality and design issues on the 600T.


Okay, some of that is accurate, some not 100 %

Walca's main office is in Bile/Bienne. They also have a subsidiary office in Hong Kong.

Walca has always been responsible for the assembly of the SUB (unless something has changed recently, which I don't think it has).

I don't think anyone would objectively refer to the previous Milus as a success in the final analysis. 

Milus was actually dormant for some time (I used to drive by the building in Biel/Bienne on my way to Auguste Reymond in Tramelan). Mr. Tissot did indeed purchase the brand, and it stayed dormant for an additional year with (what was rumored to be) the idea of making connected watches. In the end cooler / more rational heads prevailed and he, Madam Tissot and Greg (who has moved on from Milus if I have heard correctly) debuted the Archimede in Black and Blue, and the LAB 01 at The Hype (BaselWorld micro/small independent brand show held at the Hyperion Hotel - just next to Hall 2) in 2019. Following that, Milus has struggled to establish its identity and distribution - but that is a topic for another day. 

In fairness to Mr. Edochs, he was able to convince the Jenny family to pump money into the brand, and they are releasing quite a few new models each year. He has also decided to invest fairly heavily in "advertorial" partnerships with several of the big dog watch digital media outlets. Unfortunately, the Jennys, and by extension, DOXA, are not used to the "high touch" reality of selling direct. Moreover, they clearly do not seem to want to truly invest in a North American distribution system as they are "exclusively" available through Watches of Switzerland. Important to note, DOXA, despite whatever hyperbole might be utilized. It is not Rolex, or even Tag Heuer for that matter. So saying that you are "exclusively available" at retail outlet x is about the same as saying "only available" at retail outlet x. And it makes sense, more retail outlets require actually hiring someone/s to travel, visit, and train retail partners. It also means the never-ending struggle to find retail partners that understand and operate on a "cash basis". And what does that mean? Essentially, watch retail, particularly with smaller brands and "desirable" retailers is based on memo. Memo is essentially consignment, but is actually worse. Brand X sends the watches to Retail Outlet Y. The retail partner requires that the brand pay for co-op advertising and will not carry the watches unless the terms are memo - meaning that in theory, the retail partner will only pay for the watch once they sell it. In reality, it often means that the retail partner might sell several of the watches, but won't bother telling the brand. The brand asks "how are things going?" and the retailer again does not bother mentioning the watches that were sold. Finally, when the brand rep arrives to the retail location to do what is known as a "safe count", the retail partner is confronted with the brand finally realizing that the watches were sold several months ago, and the retail partner never told them, so it was impossible for the brand to invoice them.

Now obviously, I have never worked for DOXA, and have not worked for Synchron since 2010, but based on these reasonably educated assumptions, I don't know that DOXA is making pots of money in North America at the moment. But then again, I could be wrong. Ultimately, they will need to invest in some actual staff if they wish to move beyond the beach head that they have re-established.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Now this is customer engagement. Three years ago this week I purchased an Enoksen Deepdive watch. It really set me off on a watch adventure which has led me here so far. 

Anyway a couple of days ago I get a call out of the blue and it's Oliver at Enoksen asking after me and if I had time for a chat. I sure did and we chatted over watch stuff for maybe 20 minutes. Stuff they are doing (upgrading several models to Swiss movement options), stuff I think they should be doing (orange dial, that got a giggle), gripes and likes in general etc. etc. He asked if I needed a new strap or anything for my time and I declined (they have sent me free straps in the past, just because) so he said he'd send me one of their deerskin watch rolls. I thought that most generous. They didn't have to. Well it arrived today and a nice hat. Lovely!

I have had several dealings with this firm (bought my brother one of their race chronos last year) and they have always bent over backwards and have always been open to discussion. 

Just makes you feel appreciated.

If only eh?


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## lilreddivinghood (Apr 17, 2008)

As for the pictures you posted. Other than Cousteau only anyone interested in Doxa would know what watch was being worn especially the one worn by Redford.

All of us in our little Doxa universe think the rest of the world knows about Doxa and the SUB and the history and Cussler and Cousteau etc. You might be surprised how few people do or actually care.
[/QUOTE]
Most of the Divers I know know of the Doxa brand


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