# Would you black-out the luminova on your EHC Bezel?



## All Balls! (Nov 2, 2007)

I did!!! check this out.



















before









after









I can live without having the luminova ring glow. But until BALL comes out with a fix, I'll wear it like this! what do you think?


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## abouttime (Jul 16, 2008)

You know to be honest.. at first I thought it was a dumb idea to modify the watch like you described.... then I saw your photos and think it actually looks pretty cool.

ENJOY...


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## skillet (Apr 16, 2008)

What did you use. I have a black cow and that bezel annoys me. You might be onto something here.


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## Watcher205 (Apr 14, 2008)

A.B., I think that looks awesome. Would you mind sharing how you did it? I think a black bezel is more attractive than the faded-to-brown look that mine has.

Still love my MadCow but would like to spiff it up a little.


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## Balldy (Jan 14, 2009)

Great job - I think it looks better than the original!

Thinking...... Can you get a material that's black during the day but still lights up at night?

Balldy


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## scottw44 (Aug 16, 2006)

+1...the pics are quite cool looking.



abouttime said:


> You know to be honest.. at first I thought it was a dumb idea to modify the watch like you described.... then I saw your photos and think it actually looks pretty cool.
> 
> ENJOY...


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## Watcher205 (Apr 14, 2008)

Black during the day and lights up at night? Is that a flashlight?


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## stockae92 (Feb 10, 2006)

i like it

how did you do it?


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## Caboose1966 (Jan 27, 2008)

Is it difficult/expensive to get a replacement Luminova ring (I assume it's a ring - haven't heard or seen) to put back in if you ever want to restore the watch to it's factory condition - in case of sale, change-of-heart, etc.

If it's not difficult or prohibitively expensive, I would consider doing it to my 'Gator. I like the look better and the lume of the "Lum" inova is not overly functional. As long as the tritium dot is left un-blacked.

Thanks for sharing.

Dean


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## Timewaster (Nov 24, 2007)

Watcher205 said:


> Black during the day and lights up at night? Is that a flashlight?


I'm guessing the bezel no longer has any lume. The lume from those bezel rings has never been very impressive to begin with though. I do like that black look. :-!

Regards,
-Jeff


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## L.O. Little (Feb 27, 2006)

All Balls! said:


> I can live without having the luminova ring glow.


My glow has been dead so long, I don't even remember what it look like... Was yours still glowing before you blacked it out?



All Balls! said:


> But until BALL comes out with a fix, I'll wear it like this!


Actually, I'm hoping Ball gives up on trying to fix the rubber luminova ring, it was a mistake from day one. I like what you've done to yours MUCH better! |>


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## Crusher (Oct 6, 2008)

That looks really cool :-!


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## waterbrook (Jan 19, 2008)

Very nice! That looks better in daylight than the original. Now, to get it to glow.:think:


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## Frontierman63 (Oct 30, 2007)

Totally Awsome! Please do tell...how did you do it???


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## Crusher (Oct 6, 2008)

?? :-d


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## L.O. Little (Feb 27, 2006)

Crusher said:


> ?? :-d


Funny thing, I've thought about doing it to mine... b-)


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## All Balls! (Nov 2, 2007)

Funny thing I just got bored and undid the lume ring to check it out maybe clean it. then i said the heck with it and painted the lume ring with some high gloss spray paint from auto store I had laying around. Just got to be careful not to lose the tiny screws or the lume button on the 12 marker.

the lume did still work, but not for very long (had the same issue with my Mad Cow). That's why I said if BALL offers a replacement that's an improvement I'll buy it. But until then I'll just wear it like this or find some lume paint and go that route! 

I can't wait to see what the new models use for the bezel lume. I read in the other link it was going to be redesigned. I hope that doesn't mean they'll do away with it. I think it's a great Idea and something they should improve, not change IMHO!


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## bbqbrew (Dec 13, 2006)

That looks really good. I had a Classic II Diver and the lume sucked on the bezel. Good idea:-!.
Chris


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## WatchTimes (Jul 14, 2008)

What do they use for lume their that it is so bad?
My Balls NT has the best lume in the world and I wear it camping, hunting and things like that just for the lume so I am curious what it is they failed with in the bezel?


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## Caboose1966 (Jan 27, 2008)

Yogi,
From


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## Caboose1966 (Jan 27, 2008)

Yogi,
From what I understand, the bezel lume is Luminova - not tritium like the marker tubes on the dial and the 12:00 dot.
Others here can expand on the properties of Luminova vs. the various strengths of tritium (i.e. T25, T100, etc.)

Cheers, Dean


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## roberev (Mar 15, 2006)

You're brave to have taken this risky step, and it sure looks to have paid off. The black definitely improves the look of the watch. :-!

Of course, now I just want your Trieste all the more. 

Rob


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

As a modder there is black lume (it is really dark gray in color). It really does not have any real staying power so the cost would yield you about the same thing as the green as far as longevity. They use some on the shadow versions. Luminosity is directly related to depth of the luminous material. Here are a few things with the black lume on them. Keep in mind the Lume was fresh charged in these pictures. I generally try and talk people out of lume on a bezel. To me the paint is far more functional when diving in the day. At night the pip it the critical thing.




























As you can see the black lume is is very weak. My lume work is all done by Chris Weigand (WUS- Ray Knight) the owner of Lume-Tec so he is one of the top and this is the best he can do.

For comparison here is a Monster bezel with colored standard lume. This would be a much better path if you wish more glow.


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## scottw44 (Aug 16, 2006)

Very nicely explained Michael. Thank you.



samanator said:


> As a modder there is black lume (it is really dark gray in color). It really does not have any real staying power so the cost would yield you about the same thing as the green as far as longevity. The use some on the shadow versions. Luminosity is directly related to depth of the luminous material. Here are a few things with the black lume on them. Keep in mind the Lume was fresh charged in these pictures. I generally try and talk people out of lume on a bezel. To me the paint is far more functional when diving in the day. At night the pip it the critical thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

scottw44 said:


> Very nicely explained Michael. Thank you.


Thanks! Just trying to contribute where I can.


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## scottw44 (Aug 16, 2006)

My only watch with a bezel has the pip lumed:


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

scottw44 said:


> My only watch with a bezel has the pip lumed:


Sinn correct?


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## jarhead024 (Mar 24, 2009)

The extremely poor lume of the EHC bezel has been a sore spot with me since I purchased my white dial EHC Chrono about 6 months ago. I have spoken to Ball customer service and they don't seem to have any concerns about the ineffective lume even though the stock photo illustrates a good lume shot from the bezel. In reality the lume is only good for a few minutes before it fades rapidly and I have several $150 - $500.00 watches that have much better bezel lume.

What aggrivates the issue fo me is the very poor daytime legibility of the bezel markings due to the faint green lume creating no contrast between the numbers and markers and the satin finish of the bezel. That's why "ALL BALLS" and others here would even think of resorting to the drastic measures of painting over the do-nothing lume. 

If Seiko, Victorinix and others can figure out how to do it right , why can't Ball come up with a better solution?? I am not daring enough to get the paint brush out and I don't think that I should at these prices.

Thanks,

Jim


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## scottw44 (Aug 16, 2006)

I just saw this, I am sorry. Sinn indeed:












samanator said:


> Sinn correct?


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## Watcher205 (Apr 14, 2008)

roberev said:


> You're brave to have taken this risky step, and it sure looks to have paid off. The black definitely improves the look of the watch. :-!
> 
> Of course, now I just want your Trieste all the more.
> 
> Rob


I followed All Ball's lead on this and painted my luminova black this weekend 9it had not worked in some time). It was a very simple process and I think my watch looks much better. If you can take out four small screws and operate a spray paint can - you can do it.


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## scottw44 (Aug 16, 2006)

From an earlier thread as posted by Ball VP Daniel Hall:
-------------------

Hello everyone.

Daniel Hall, Vice President of BALL Watch USA.

I would like to address the issue of the luminova ring currently being used on the bezel of the Engineer Hydrocarbon family.

First, the official statement (paraphrased) of BALL Watch Company (the manufacturer) follows:
*****
When the EH line was being designed, one of the most difficult issues to overcome was luminosity for the bezel. While the entire watch is essentially ruggedized to the limits, there was no known solution for providing luminova on an exposed surface. We were approached by a manufacturer with a solution to this problem, a "rubberized luminova" ring placed under the bezel. It was an entirely new material, but was presented with considerable performance testing data. The fact that the rubberized luminova didn't glow as brightly as paint was obvious, and seemed an acceptable trade-off.

It turns out that the material wasn't properly tested for real-world factors such as exposure to: skin oil and sweat of different ph factors, salt water, anti-bacterial / harsh hand cleansers, etc. While for some wearers the material may perform for many years to the original parameters, to other wearers it can degrade and become non-functional in a year.

A new solution has been engineered for EH bezel luminosity and will be featured on all future EH family models.
*****

We expect to see this new EH bezel luminosity at BaselWorld this month, as there are rumored to be new EH models again this year.

On to the issue of existing Engineer Hydrocarbon models. The EH watches are all top-selling models. While the US office has taken calls for this issue off and on over the past few years, the rate of requests for this issue is less than 0.5%. While there are a few people on this thread that seem to think this is all-pervading problem, it is not. The vast majority of EH watches have luminova rings that function as expected for years. We have personally seen EH models as much as four years old where the rubberized luminova still looks and works the same as when it was new.

Moving on, BALL Watch Company has noted this issue can take place *under certain circumstances* and has addressed the issue by re-engineering the bezel. Additionally, this market has been authorized by BALL Watch Company to permit every EH family model owner ONE warranty original product replacement of their rubberized luminova ring, within the warranty period. After that, original replacement rings will continue to be available for an as-yet unknown cost, but it is estimated to be in the range of $90 to $110.

There is discussion of manufacturing a new component to replace the rubberized luminova ring. This replacement component, *if* it is offered, will not be luminous. The wearer will rely on the pip at 12 o'clock for night readability.

For those of you that need to have your luminova ring replaced, please contact BALL Watch USA 727-896-4278 to request a Repair Authorization number, and your watch will be issued top priority. The factory in Switzerland is preparing a shipment of replacement rings for each model so we can handle this issue.

Thank you,

Daniel Hall
Vice President
BALL Watch USA 
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jarhead024 said:


> The extremely poor lume of the EHC bezel has been a sore spot with me since I purchased my white dial EHC Chrono about 6 months ago. I have spoken to Ball customer service and they don't seem to have any concerns about the ineffective lume even though the stock photo illustrates a good lume shot from the bezel. In reality the lume is only good for a few minutes before it fades rapidly and I have several $150 - $500.00 watches that have much better bezel lume.
> 
> What aggrivates the issue fo me is the very poor daytime legibility of the bezel markings due to the faint green lume creating no contrast between the numbers and markers and the satin finish of the bezel. That's why "ALL BALLS" and others here would even think of resorting to the drastic measures of painting over the do-nothing lume.
> 
> ...


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## L.O. Little (Feb 27, 2006)

jarhead024 said:


> The extremely poor lume of the EHC bezel has been a sore spot with me since I purchased my white dial EHC Chrono about 6 months ago. I have spoken to Ball customer service and they don't seem to have any concerns about the ineffective lume even though the stock photo illustrates a good lume shot from the bezel. In reality the lume is only good for a few minutes before it fades rapidly and I have several $150 - $500.00 watches that have much better bezel lume.
> 
> What aggrivates the issue fo me is the very poor daytime legibility of the bezel markings due to the faint green lume creating no contrast between the numbers and markers and the satin finish of the bezel. That's why "ALL BALLS" and others here would even think of resorting to the drastic measures of painting over the do-nothing lume.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly, Jim. It's a sad situation.


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## jarhead024 (Mar 24, 2009)

Thanks Scott for the thread from Daniel. It explains a lot and I guess the issue is whether the replacement ring will perform any better than the original. I spoke to the customer service number today and the replacement ring wasn't even mentioned. 

I had called the customer service number on another issue regarding the availablilty of the strap tools because I have had such a hard time swapping my bracelet with the rubber strap. I was inquiring whether I could purchase a lug tool, helper tube, spare screw etc. The response was that the helper tube and tool were only available in the models purchased new such as the Trieste and Mad Cow that are delivered with the strap and tools. But Ball has no option to buy the tools separately. Anyone have any success easily changing the strap without the aid of the helper tube ??


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## All Balls! (Nov 2, 2007)

Yes that would be a pain if not impossible to change the strap without doing some damage to the pin. I would contact Ball directly and see if they could help you. I wouldnt give up just cause an AD said they couldnt get it. they dont always know what theyre talking about. Ball CS is really top notch and Im sure they could help you. and if they dont, PM me. I may be able to help you out.


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## OILMAN (Sep 20, 2008)

i be damned...


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## k7lro (Feb 12, 2006)

OILMAN said:


> i be damned...


Pls explain. Are you knocking the OP efforts or the fact that the luminova is so piss poor from a manufacturer that should be able to provide better?

I'd love to have someone from Ball defend this picture:


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## hassiman (Jan 7, 2008)

*Replacement bezel needed....*

I can only hope Ball will offer a simple black enameled bezel face with bright white enamel indicies, the 4 bright steel spacers as they are now and the tritium pip at 12:00. That's ALL that's needed and it's a design that will never need service, and be cheaper to manufacture as no cutting of the indicies would be needed.

Unlike the current design it will be visable and usable in the daylight... as the current design is not and with the pip will be usable in total darkness.

To say that there was a problem with only 5% of the existing EHC models is a statement that flies in the face of reality as the current version never worked, nor will any replacements work until the design is changed. I frankly think the Black bezel will look a hell of a lot better anyway.

I would PAY for that change.:-!


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## maxpower419 (Nov 11, 2008)

I am attempting to do my Mad Cow...how do you get the bezel ring out? I took out the 4 screws and took off the little brackets but i cant get the ring out... anyone have any tip for rmoving the ring safely, I think its just stuck from moisture and time...



Watcher205 said:


> I followed All Ball's lead on this and painted my luminova black this weekend 9it had not worked in some time). It was a very simple process and I think my watch looks much better. If you can take out four small screws and operate a spray paint can - you can do it.


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## All Balls! (Nov 2, 2007)

Yes, moisture and time. I wedge it out where the bracket was(between the bezel and ring) with a pin or the same flat head screwdriver, so if I scratch it a little then when I put the bracket back on it won't show. 

good luck! and post some pics when your done. I'd love to see it!


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## Watcher205 (Apr 14, 2008)

maxpower419 said:


> I am attempting to do my Mad Cow...how do you get the bezel ring out? I took out the 4 screws and took off the little brackets but i cant get the ring out... anyone have any tip for rmoving the ring safely, I think its just stuck from moisture and time...


You are correct. Once the screws are loose, nothing else is attaching it. I had to wiggle mine a little and use some gentle pressure. The actual Superluminova ring on my watch had the consistency of rubber. Once the bezel ring releases, the "rubber ring" just popped out. Good luck.


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## maxpower419 (Nov 11, 2008)

Well finally got around to doing it... the whole procedure really completes the look of the watch in my opinion


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## Mike69 (Apr 14, 2009)

Your right how it complements the dial, the fading to an ugly brown lume is the one thing that has put me off getting an E.H. 

Nice Job!!

It's such a pity that Ball have heaved this problem onto the customer.


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## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)

As someone who is contemplating doing this, I would appreciate someone posting some pics of their experience as they did it!

Also, what does detaching the bezel do to the water resistance?


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

The bezel is outside the sealed case. Bezels on almost all dive watches come off for service cleaning.


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## sukispop (Nov 13, 2006)

First off, that blacked out look looks great! Nice job! :-!

I've been a very satisfied and happy owner of my white dial Mad Cow. And, yup, the exposed rubber(for the numbers and markers) has turned that _interesting_ dark color. The lume performance has always been marginal, even when the rubber was still that nice, factory-new color.
Do I wish it hadn't darkened in color, and that the lume glowed a lot brighter? Of course I do. Has it had a big impact on my overall enjoyment of the watch? No. Of my watches, I enjoy my Mad Cow the most...by far. And, it's been this way, ever since I got it from Rob and Topper.

I completely respect my fellow members who feel a lot more strongly about this, than I do. I understand and appreciate where they're coming from, really I do. I guess, for me, this just hasn't been a big deal...not even a small one. I'm not a diver, so I don't rely on those markers for my safety. I'm not even a _professional_ desk diver, since I don't work in an office setting. I only desk dive, recreationally, when I'm at home with my laptop, spending time on the forums and whatnot. When those rare moments arise, when I'd really like to see my bezel markers glow, I'll shoot my Innova UV flashlight on them and get my "hit". :-d

I believe Ball wanted to come up with a much more durable lume alternative to the standard luminova paint method, for their bezel markers...so they came up with this luminova-infused rubber ring, so that the luminova couldn't eventually be scratched or worn off. The end result to their innovative approach may have fallen a bit short of their expectations...and ours. They didn't foresee that, in real life use, the rubber ring's performance could be affected by exposure to human oils, moisture, dust, etc. So, the end user experience, for some, has been perhaps a bit disappointing. But, the way I see it, we caught this innovation in its infancy. The new HC models that have come out have the new and improved version of this innovation. What I hope to see, is that Ball will make available bezel replacements with the improved rings, that will fit our HC Classics, Mad Cows, Gators, and Chronos. I would certainly consider buying one.

In the meantime, I have great appreciation for a company like Ball, that is not afraid of being innovative...of trying to find a new and better way of doing things. It's that drive and effort that I appreciate. That is what has brought us these Ball watches that we love so much. |>


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## dmunz (Oct 22, 2009)

k7lro said:


> Pls explain. Are you knocking the OP efforts or the fact that the luminova is so piss poor from a manufacturer that should be able to provide better?
> 
> I'd love to have someone from Ball defend this picture:


Take a look at my EHC GMT I lume shot in the photo section (and Topper's Lume Guide). I got to that point by putting the watch directly under a halogin desk lamp. It didn't last very long, but I got there...

FWIW
DLM


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## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)

Recommendations for the type of paint to use?


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## All Balls! (Nov 2, 2007)

The stuff I used was black semi-gloss plastic bonding spray paint. I had some left over from the auto parts store. It's held up without fading or chipping thus far. good luck with your mod. I'd like to see some pics after. :-!


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## jACK_bANDIT (Sep 23, 2009)

I wouldent, I did the reverse. As previously seen on the forum....









But if I were to get another EHC (which WILL happen) Ill do your method. Looks CLEAN.


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## dpj17 (Oct 22, 2007)

I recently purchased a EHC Chrono off the forum with a blacked out bezel and was a little confused why someone would do this. After looking over the pics and enjoying it in person I would want it no other way. Hopefully the brass @ Ball takes note of this and applies this change to future models as it really makes the watch look "cleaner".


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## DSE (Nov 29, 2007)

What dpj17 said.:-!


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## microrotor (Jul 12, 2009)

I did it to mine and it's much better looking and easier to read.


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## pwong017 (May 7, 2009)

so do you guys just paint over it or take out eh bezel first?


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## jarhead024 (Mar 24, 2009)

The white EHCII Chrono is the exact watch that I have had the bezel lume issues. The black bezel looks real good and is an improvement over the original. My watch has been in Ball service for over three months and I hear from the AD that I should have it back soon. I had the dealer send it to Ball for a winding problem and I understand that they are replacing the lume ring while it is in the shop. When I get it back I may do the paint job on the bezel if there is no significant improvement in the lume. Regardless I don't understand why it takes over three months for repair service to the manual winder. Otherwise the watch performed great.


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## ChuckMiller (Mar 4, 2008)

jarhead024 said:


> ...Regardless I don't understand why it takes over three months for repair service to the manual winder.


I can say from personal experience that some models have to go all the way back to Switzerland for repair. My original Night Train did.


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## hassiman (Jan 7, 2008)

Ball should step up to the plate and offer replacment EHTC bezels whiuch use the newer brighter materials. If these were $400 watches that would be one thing.... but these watches cost us thousands of $$$. o| Top notch customer service should be a no brainer in a very tough luxury goods market. 

The real high end watches are $100s of thousands of $$$ and that market is more or less unaffected by the economy but the Rolex/Ball/Sinn etc. price range IS. 

Now is the time Ball should be showing that they go the extra mile for a hard earned customer.|>


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## jarhead024 (Mar 24, 2009)

I just received this THursday my Ball EHCII Chrono back from service of the winding mechanism. It was handed to the AD on November 11 and the dealer got it back on March 4th. It was sent back to Switzerlandand for the repair and while it was there upon my request they replaced the rubber bezel insert at no charge. The new insert appears to provide better lume response than the old one because I can actually see the bezel markings in the dark after it is charged for a while under a lamp. I placed the watch under a lamp for 30 minutes or so and the lume was very good and easy to read. I went back to the dark room an hour or so later and it was dark again. It looks like the lume is brighter with the new bezel insert than the old and it initially seems to last longer but probably for only an hour or so - much better that the 5 minutes of the old insert. I will do a more precise evaluation of the lume over the next couple of weeks. The old bezel insert was sent back to me so I can do a side-by-side comparison. And then I could paint the old insert black and swap off when I feel like it.


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## tempus edax rerum (Feb 16, 2009)

jACK_bANDIT said:


> I wouldent, I did the reverse. As previously seen on the forum....
> 
> But if I were to get another EHC (which WILL happen) Ill do your method. Looks CLEAN.


I bet a DLC treatment on that ring would be possible.


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## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)

Just took the plunge and did the deed. Photo essay:


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## L.O. Little (Feb 27, 2006)

cl0r0x70 said:


> Just took the plunge and did the deed. Photo essay:


Looks great! I'll take black over nasty greenish brown any day. :-!


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## otown (Jan 25, 2010)

At first i was aghast that you would change a thing as the Trieste is such a sweet piece. On further reflection i have to say it actually improves the overall aesthetic markedly. I just wonder why, if the lume is so weak, is it there in the first place?


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## cl0r0x70 (Feb 2, 2010)

It was a production error. From what I've read, Ball was given certain specs and assurances by the lume ring vendor, and they obviously didn't come through.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2010)

_On the new watches, including my Spacemaster the lume ring has been greatly improved and is white, much brighter than on my Mad Cow, and lasts longer. I think I would black out the older versions since the lume completely dies anyway, but not the new versions._


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