# Correct/Safest Way to Wind an Automatic Orient?



## davevv

Hey guys, 

I recently purchased a beautiful Orient CFD0F001W Power Reserve Automatic (which I will actually momentarily post a review of); and was wondering what was the correct, safest, and recommend way to wind the watch. I do not own a watch winder yet, but will soon purchase one; probably an affordable Belocia. I wear my Orient most days of the week, but at times, I skip two days not wearing my watch so it drains power almost close to zero. 

What I usually do (if I don't wear it) is to gently move the watch from side to side (left to right) in a continuous motion. I do not enough so I can hear the mechanism inside producing a sound. I've heard that moving/shaking the watch back and forth (forward to back) is quite dangerous so I avoid doing that. I usually move it gently from side to side for around 30 seconds and see the power reserve indicator increase by 10 hours. Is this normal?

Am I winding my Orient correctly?

And on a side note to avoid posting a new thread, I would like to also ask:

Are watch winders effective on Orient Automatics? 

I plan on ordering one soon, but have read that certain Automatics do not function as well on watch winders are others. 

Thank for any replies, and sorry if this is quite basic as I'm new to this.


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## KLR_Redux

If you get a really high quality winder (as opposed to a watch spinner) it might wind your watch. I have a cheaper four watch "winder" from amazon.com that keeps my watches from stopping, but that is about it. The power reserve is at the bare minimum. Honestly, I rarely use it any more since I usually wear one watch for two weeks or so then switch out. I finally decided that all I was doing by leaving watches on the winder was wearing the mechanism unnecessarily. I make sure each of my watches gets a winding/run down every month or so. 

When winding, I usually sweep my watch in a circular pattern about the size of a dinner plate and switch directions a couple times during the process.


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## nhoJ

Sounds correct to me. Most times I just give it a few shakes to get it running and then let it wind automatically through out the day.

IMHO, I find the winders to be overpriced without adding much value. It doesn't take much effort to get a mechanical set and running. Most mechanical watches will drift in the accuracy so the time will likely have to be reset anyway, depending on how long it has been on the winder. The only time I would consider buying a winder was if I had some crazy mechanical complication like a moonphase or a perpetual calendar which was a PITA to reset each time.


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## thetokyokid

Here is what I do... but... warning.... your mileage may vary!

For my Orient Star and Royal Orient, I hold the watch and the band with my fingers between the band and watch (so it doesn't scratch the watch) in my right hand dial up. I turn the watch so that the dial is facing left and the watch is edge on to my eyes. I move it forward and down to get the rotor going and then just keep it going. It is a vigorous and small motion I am making. It winds very fast this way. Both watches keep excellent time (+5 and +3 seconds per day). I have done this for 6 years with both watches. The watches have not been damaged. These movements are tough. The Orient Star even survived a 2 meter fall onto a hardwood floor with no deviation of the precision of the movement. :-!


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## davevv

First of all, thanks for the replies so far guys. The WUS community really is helpful. And by the way, the review for my watch is up on the Orient reviews. Please feel free to check it out. It has lots of photos.

I have a follow-up question though.

Is it safe and advisable for me to fully wind my power reserve watch by shaking it? Specifically, from 0 hours power reserve, wind it all the way up to 40 hours by shaking it manually?

Would this affect the shock limit of my watch and cause the movement to be inaccurate?



KLR_Redux said:


> If you get a really high quality winder (as opposed to a watch spinner) it might wind your watch. I have a cheaper four watch "winder" from amazon.com that keeps my watches from stopping, but that is about it. The power reserve is at the bare minimum. Honestly, I rarely use it any more since I usually wear one watch for two weeks or so then switch out. I finally decided that all I was doing by leaving watches on the winder was wearing the mechanism unnecessarily. I make sure each of my watches gets a winding/run down every month or so.
> 
> When winding, I usually sweep my watch in a circular pattern about the size of a dinner plate and switch directions a couple times during the process.


Thanks for the advice. I've read that Belocia watch winders are quite effective. They're pretty cheap too. Not sure if they're effective on Orients though. I'll give the circular, dinner-plate pattern a try.



nhoJ said:


> Sounds correct to me. Most times I just give it a few shakes to get it running and then let it wind automatically through out the day.


I actually would wear it to wind it. But there are just certain times where I won't wear it for 3 days straight. In this case, I resort to shaking it to wind it fully to 40 hours.



thetokyokid said:


> Here is what I do... but... warning.... your mileage may vary!
> 
> For my Orient Star and Royal Orient, I hold the watch and the band with my fingers between the band and watch (so it doesn't scratch the watch) in my right hand dial up. I turn the watch so that the dial is facing left and the watch is edge on to my eyes. I move it forward and down to get the rotor going and then just keep it going. It is a vigorous and small motion I am making. It winds very fast this way. Both watches keep excellent time (+5 and +3 seconds per day). I have done this for 6 years with both watches. The watches have not been damaged. These movements are tough. The Orient Star even survived a 2 meter fall onto a hardwood floor with no deviation of the precision of the movement. :-!


Thanks tokyokid for the great advice. I'll give this a try too. Seems that your technique is very effective as you've been doing it for 6 years. I'm not sure if my Orient would fall under the same league as your Star and Royal though. Hopefully it has the same shock resistance. Linking to my question above, have you tried (with your two Orients) to wind them fully by shaking them? From 0 hours of power reserve to 40?


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## kew

davevv said:


> I have a follow-up question though.
> 
> Is it safe and advisable for me to fully wind my power reserve watch by shaking it? Specifically, from 0 hours power reserve, wind it all the way up to 40 hours by shaking it manually?


These are robust watches, don't be overly concerned about causing damage to the movement. To start a dead watch, I would shake it for 30 seconds then let my arm do the rest unconsciously. If you need to shake it all the way up to 40 hrs, no problem there either. Just like the thetokyokid, one of mine dropped on to the tiled bathroom floor and was unaffected. :-!


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## Chromejob

davevv said:


> ... What I usually do (if I don't wear it) is to gently move the watch from side to side (left to right) in a continuous motion. ....
> 
> Am I winding my Orient correctly?
> 
> ...
> 
> Are watch winders effective on Orient Automatics?
> 
> I plan on ordering one soon, but have read that certain Automatics do not function as well on watch winders are others.


Your method should work. Seiko tells people to swing the watch left to right, right to left, like a horizontal pendulum. Works fine. My MO is to hold it dial down, and swirl it around in a circular motion, like I was swirling wine in a glass. This sets the rotor spinning without putting undue strain on the bearings or anything.

I have a Diplomat dual-winder (with static storage for 3 more) that I got for my birthday this year, it works great, has several programs (cycles) that you can use. I find that the _3 hours on, 9 hours off _ program keeps my watches running about 24-36 hours, which suits me fine. I don't want it winding watches to their fullest. And the Diplomats look very good.

You mayve heard that some movements don't work well on winders because the owner doesn't know which "rotation" winds best. All of my watches wind in either direction. But the Miyota movements in some watches only wind in one direction (clockwise, while looking at the dial), so a winder set to wind in only the other direction will do very little for it. Settings that alternate directions will only wind a Miyota movement half as much as the winder does for a Swiss movement.

My Orient gets a good wind, and reserve, with the winder on alternating cycles (CW for 5 mins, CCW for 5 mins, repeat for 3 hours).



nhoJ said:


> Sounds correct to me. Most times I just give it a few shakes to get it running and then let it wind automatically through out the day.
> 
> IMHO, I find the winders to be overpriced without adding much value. It doesn't take much effort to get a mechanical set and running. Most mechanical watches will drift in the accuracy so the time will likely have to be reset anyway, depending on how long it has been on the winder. The only time I would consider buying a winder was if I had some crazy mechanical complication like a moonphase or a perpetual calendar which was a PITA to reset each time.


Can't corroborate. I have a Diplomat double-winder. It keeps watches running. Has multiple programs. Is quiet.

I use it on, among all my manuals, two with problems with the stem tube or winding stem, proscribing pulling out and turning every few days. Others won't need one. I have about 8-10 autos (small collection compared to some with ginormous vintage collections), so I rotate them in and out ... some of my sturdier Seikos I let run down as they have stems and movements of Iron. YMMV.

Likewise, I can't corroborate that "most mechanical watches will drift in the accuracy so the time will likely have to be reset anyway," I have 2 Swiss movements that are accurate to within 20 seconds a week, and so only need ("need" being a matter of personal taste) to be reset twice a month. My Seiko 7S26 is accurate to within 2 minutes a month. I've dickered with my 7009 so it's a little fast (I find faster preferable, resetting is simply of hacking it for 30-45 seconds and it's within 10 seconds of observatory time again). Of course, the winder has little to do with accuracy, that's a matter of being regulated by a watchsmith.



thetokyokid said:


> Here is what I do... but... warning.... your mileage may vary!
> 
> For my Orient Star and Royal Orient, I hold the watch and the band with my fingers between the band and watch (so it doesn't scratch the watch) in my right hand dial up. I turn the watch so that the dial is facing left and the watch is edge on to my eyes. I move it forward and down to get the rotor going and then just keep it going. It is a vigorous and small motion I am making. It winds very fast this way. Both watches keep excellent time (+5 and +3 seconds per day). I have done this for 6 years with both watches. The watches have not been damaged. These movements are tough. The Orient Star even survived a 2 meter fall onto a hardwood floor with no deviation of the precision of the movement. :-!



I would NOT spin or shake any automatic movement *vigorously*. Like a Wheel-O, not a snowglobe. :-!


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## Sean779

Chromejob said:


> I would NOT spin or shake any automatic movement *vigorously*. Like a Wheel-O, not a snowglobe. :-!


I'd say that's generally good advice, but more in the "be nice to your watch" way than "you will hurt your watch doing that." Quick motions which don't end in collisions with a stationary object I doubt are harmful to the movement.


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## RON in PA

I have a pamphlet from Seiko that advices that by swinging an automatic watch right to left and back again when the watch is held horizontally for 7-10 minutes will put a full wind on the watch.


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## Sean779

RON in PA said:


> I have a pamphlet from Seiko that advices that by swinging an automatic watch right to left and back again when the watch is held horizontally for 7-10 minutes will put a full wind on the watch.


I wish their kinetics did that :-d


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## Chromejob

Sean779 said:


> I'd say that's generally good advice, but more in the "be nice to your watch" way than "you will hurt your watch doing that." Quick motions which don't end in collisions with a stationary object I doubt are harmful to the movement.


In another thread (or another forum) a poster reported seeing a salesperson at an AD pick up an auto-wind watch and shake it "quickly" like a baby rattle. Despite the lack of a solid object (excepting the saleperson's head :roll I suspect that is not good for the rotor. Sure, these watches are shock resistant, but not abuse resistant.

Your prescription, "be nice to your watch," is a superb general axiom.



RON in PA said:


> I have a pamphlet from Seiko that advices that by swinging an automatic watch right to left and back again when the watch is held horizontally for 7-10 minutes will put a full wind on the watch.


Yeah, I've read that too. ... Ok. :think: Someone do that for 7-10 mins and get back to us with your results please.[1] :-!

Of course, this applies to Seiko movements, and may not hold true for other movements. (I'm thinking, again, of the Miyotas.)

[1] *(Neither I or Watchuseek are responsible for any repetitive stress injuries you incur as a result of this thread or suggestions contained within.)*


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## thetokyokid

Since people are misunderstanding what I am saying and then spouting the old (and untrue) party lines... and as I said before... your mileage may vary....

I suppose I should add a comment about the way I wind my Orients (and other watches): the motion is wrist motion only. Your wrist has to be loose. It is the kind of motion you would have if you held a golf ball, extended your index finger, held it 2.5 inches above a table and then tapped the table with your index finger using only your wrist (now don't actually tap anything while winding a watch please). This creates a small, quick circular motion. All I am doing here is keeping the rotor moving in an efficient manner. It is NOT A SHAKE. Don't misinterpret what I am saying. The motion is vigorous but in no way harmful. This works with rotors that spin freely or are large (my Porsche deisgn, Chopard, etc). It doesn't work well with my eta 2824 based watches or with micro rotors. 

This can in NO WAY damage your automatic watch. You are not shaking your watch. Your watch will get a lot more shaking (vibration) by you driving down a bumpy road. You don't take off your watch when you do this, do you? You will shock and impact your watch more by clapping your hands at the Opera. You don't remove your watch when you do this do you? Apollo and Shuttle astronauts got/get the living daylights shaken out of them. Still, their Rolex GMTs perform just fine. Any yes, you can wind your watch up to the 40 hour mark this way if you like. I don't, personally. I wind it out of the red indicator and then just wear it the rest of the day. This is equivalent to giving my Rolex about 15 turns of the crown and then wearing it. 

Don't worry. There is a lot of hooplah out there about how not to damage your watch. Most of it is misunderstanding or people reading something on the internet and spouting the part line. Manufacturers need to cover their asses. I have been wearing automatic watches for the better part of 30 years and have never had any problem with this winding method in any of the watches I have ever owned. I have a 1950's Eterna Matic from my dad which is still running and has been wound this way for 60 years. 

Still, if you think that a circular motion will damage your watch, don't do it. Simple as that.


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## Chromejob

thetokyokid said:


> Since people are misunderstanding what I am saying and then spouting the old (and untrue) party lines... and as I said before... your mileage may vary....
> 
> I suppose I should add a comment about the way I wind my Orients (and other watches): the motion is wrist motion only. Your wrist has to be loose. It is the kind of motion you would have if you held a golf ball, extended your index finger, held it 2.5 inches above a table and then tapped the table with your index finger using only your wrist (now don't actually tap anything while winding a watch please). This creates a small, quick circular motion. All I am doing here is keeping the rotor moving in an efficient manner. It is NOT A SHAKE. Don't misinterpret what I am saying. The motion is vigorous but in no way harmful. This works with rotors that spin freely or are large (my Porsche deisgn, Chopard, etc). It doesn't work well with my eta 2824 based watches or with micro rotors.
> 
> This can in NO WAY damage your automatic watch. You are not shaking your watch. Your watch will get a lot more shaking (vibration) by you driving down a bumpy road. You don't take off your watch when you do this, do you? You will shock and impact your watch more by clapping your hands at the Opera. You don't remove your watch when you do this do you? Apollo and Shuttle astronauts got/get the living daylights shaken out of them. Still, their Rolex GMTs perform just fine. Any yes, you can wind your watch up to the 40 hour mark this way if you like. I don't, personally. I wind it out of the red indicator and then just wear it the rest of the day. This is equivalent to giving my Rolex about 15 turns of the crown and then wearing it.
> 
> Don't worry. There is a lot of hooplah out there about how not to damage your watch. Most of it is misunderstanding or people reading something on the internet and spouting the part line. Manufacturers need to cover their asses. I have been wearing automatic watches for the better part of 30 years and have never had any problem with this winding method in any of the watches I have ever owned. I have a 1950's Eterna Matic from my dad which is still running and has been wound this way for 60 years.
> 
> Still, if you think that a circular motion will damage your watch, don't do it. Simple as that.


You can secure from DEFCON 1, sir. No one's attacking you (that I can see). Your suggested method is actually quite similar to mine (though mine DOES work on ETA 2824 watches). My only contention was that another owner might misinterpret "vigorous" to mean "with great force" or "quickly." I quoted the anecdote of an AD salesperson being told to "shake the watch" not to illustrate you, but to show what someone could do misinterpreting valid instructions.

Nothing wrong with your suggestion in general, and nothing wrong with others' having slightly different ideas. If you insist on branding others' ideas as untruths, hoopla, misinformation, etc with a broad brush, you may not be listened to as attentively. Just a suggestion, mind you....


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## zapiao

Dudes i have a thread about this issue to: https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/how-storage-mecanical-watch-449002.html :-!


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## Tzimisces

I appreciate not wanting to abuse a watch, but I think people are worrying too much. These movements are rugged and stoutly built. Holding it dial down so as not to put undue wear on the bearing is, I think, like going 64mph instead of 65 to save gas. In other words, if one could track wear that closely I think the extra life gained in the part would be measured in minutes per decade.
I don't mean to attack anyone, babying a watch can certainly do no harm and leads to good, careful habits, but I wouldn't worry too much about abusing the movement by winding it. I wouldn't put it in a paint mixer to wind it, but just consider what your hand and arm might go through in a typical day. Not to mention that before 1970 people wore mechanical watches for everything, from hiking and bike riding to invading Europe. 
I might be more careful with a Twin Tourbillon Grande Complication with Galactic Time and Halley's Comet sub dial, made with real lava from Krakatoa, but more because it costs a gazillion dollars than I think the movement will implode if moved too quickly.


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## Chromejob

Tzimisces said:


> I appreciate not wanting to abuse a watch, but ... Holding it dial down so as not to put undue wear on the bearing is, I think, like going 64mph instead of 65 to save gas....


Reread my description. I'm describing holding it dial down and then purposefully swirling the watch around to spin the rotor at a fairly brisk RPM. Unless you make this motion regularly during the day with a watch (bionic jumping jacks, sawing wood left-handed), it's not necessarily a natural motion. TheTokyoKid's suggestion (once I understood it, once I tried it) seems to have more care built-in, because it's not a motion you can do as rapidly (depending upon the individual).

Consider again that there are some numbskulls out there who think that you shake the watch like a baby rattle to get it started. So almost any instructions can be misinterpreted and abused. (Did I mention the fellow who wrapped his in a sweater or blue jeans and set it tumbling in the clothes dryer?)

I get your point, believe me, modern timepieces are manufactured to withstand lots of day to day shock. But consider the case of a 50 year old vintage collectible watch ... I've got a 36 year old Seiko in fair condition ... would you shake it briskly, or give it a motion that minimizes stress on the components while winding it for half a minute? Now think of the numbskull who misinterprets instructions, and swirls the watch like, say, "winding the capstan on a racing yacht," vice "swirling wine gently in a glass," and you may begin to see my point.

Again, any of these techniques are probably fine on a brand spanking new Orient. But on a 40 year old Swiss movement, that 1 MPH less of vigor might be called for. :-!

Perhaps a little less criticism of each others' methods will yield more learning here. I tried TokyoKid's and started to appreciate his suggestion more.


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## Tzimisces

I definitely wasn't trying to criticize anyone's method, and your points are well taken. I was merely trying to offer another opinion, which also can yield learning.
Have a nice day!:-!


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## parrotttony

Tzimisces said:


> I appreciate not wanting to abuse a watch, but I think people are worrying too much. These movements are rugged and stoutly built. Holding it dial down so as not to put undue wear on the bearing is, I think, like going 64mph instead of 65 to save gas. In other words, if one could track wear that closely I think the extra life gained in the part would be measured in minutes per decade.
> I don't mean to attack anyone, babying a watch can certainly do no harm and leads to good, careful habits, but I wouldn't worry too much about abusing the movement by winding it. I wouldn't put it in a paint mixer to wind it, but just consider what your hand and arm might go through in a typical day. Not to mention that before 1970 people wore mechanical watches for everything, from hiking and bike riding to invading Europe.
> I might be more careful with a Twin Tourbillon Grande Complication with Galactic Time and Halley's Comet sub dial, made with real lava from Krakatoa, but more because it costs a gazillion dollars than I think the movement will implode if moved too quickly.


This entire post WAS FUNNY! I like your thinking.


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## ddkalfa

Tzimisces said:


> I appreciate not wanting to abuse a watch, but I think people are worrying too much. These movements are rugged and stoutly built. Holding it dial down so as not to put undue wear on the bearing is, I think, like going 64mph instead of 65 to save gas. In other words, if one could track wear that closely I think the extra life gained in the part would be measured in minutes per decade.
> I don't mean to attack anyone, babying a watch can certainly do no harm and leads to good, careful habits, but I wouldn't worry too much about abusing the movement by winding it. I wouldn't put it in a paint mixer to wind it, but just consider what your hand and arm might go through in a typical day. Not to mention that before 1970 people wore mechanical watches for everything, from hiking and bike riding to invading Europe.
> I might be more careful with a Twin Tourbillon Grande Complication with Galactic Time and Halley's Comet sub dial, made with real lava from Krakatoa, but more because it costs a gazillion dollars than I think the movement will implode if moved too quickly.


+1

People went to war on the 40s with their mechanical watches, and I'm sure many of those ran for decades afterwords (if not up to today). And there _might _have been improvements on shock resistance from the 40s up to today ...


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## Jeonglee1210

Question, how long does it usually take to reach 40 hrs? It seems to vary as my orient star classic takes around 18 hrs to reach the max while my other orient star seems to reach it in couple of hours...


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## yankeexpress

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!


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