# Getting frustrated about lack of 'on-the-fly' micro-adjust on GS bracelets



## Imagestreet (Apr 19, 2020)

Sorry in advance if this topic has been done to death. I have four GS (SBGX291,SBGX293,SBGJ203, & SBGN007), and much as I like each of them (all fantastic watches), my experience is really being adversely affected by the fixed GS bracelets. Unfortunately I've experienced the classic Rolex-style glidelock (on a Ginault OceanRover of all things), and Omega's excellent adjustable clasp, and once you've experienced this level of wearing comfort, it's very difficult to accept a GS watch that hangs awkwardly off the wrist at certain times of the day. I don't really want to wear my watches on leather, and the GS solution of full/half links or even manual micro-adjust pins on the clasp (SBGE255 etc) just won't cut it for dealing with my daily/seasonal wrist size fluctuations (I may be an outlier here but given the constant forum gripes on adjustable clasps I suspect this is a common problem). If I can't find a comfortable fit, then all the zaratsu polishing, wonderful dials, and classic styling still doesn't really add up to a coherent package. The current SBGA229 diver adjustment clasp is very large, and somewhat industrial in design, and would not suit a heritage collection watch. Surely it's not beyond GS to offer an optional elegant micro-adjustable clasp, that could be retrofitted on heritage pieces if the user was not satisfied with the standard low-profile clasp/ half-link solution? At this point, I'd even consider quality 3rd party options, but I haven't found any that are compatible with GS bracelets (please shout if you know of any!). I've resolved not to buy any more GS (or any other watches) without this feature. Would be great if anyone that attends any forthcoming Grand Seiko events, could raise this question to company reps - it would be good to understand what the GS designers are thinking given the pent up demand for such a clasp.


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## SaoDavi (Jan 28, 2014)

Hear, hear!


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## Dirty Red (Feb 5, 2020)

I have a similar issue. A great watch on a good bracelet. Every thing is all lovie dovie untill about the middle of June and all of July and August. 

That is when I get to wear my Diver on rubber and enjoy it for the summer. It is my second favorite watch.


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## Gravyboat6969 (Nov 14, 2019)

I agree they are certainly lagging in this regard. A good number of brands are. Even offering micro adjust like sbge255 was a struggle! Hopefully they come out with something soon


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## LCrow (Jul 14, 2020)

Have to agree; the lack of any kind of adjustment not involving a screwdriver gave me pause when considering the 293, esp as I currently live in a hot climate. I feel fortunate that somehow it was sized right at the first time of asking by the AD. The bracelet length must be exactly in the middle of my max-min wrist size. The watch is never too tight or too loose. But at this price level and for such an otherwise superbly made watch, there should be a more sophisticated clasp


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

Amen to that one Brother.

It is funny, there is a post on this forum called Grand Seiko Comments on 2020 Rolex releases where all these folks bash Rolex. They are calling out the fact that one of Rolex's big new things is offering a bunch of new dial colors and that GS created a new movement. Thats really great. The Constant Force movement looks pretty cool, earlier this year they came out with the Soko duo for the USA Market. Pretty nice also.

HOWEVER they still cannot offer a clasp with micro-adjustments on most of their models. They can create a complex movement like the Constant Force but cannot make a simple micro adjustment. A talk to a GS manager that was visiting my GS AD when I happened to be there back in Feb, told me that the reason for no micro-adjustment clasps it because it would be too bulky. Serious? Too Bulky. Nobody has complained about micro adjustment clasps from Rolex, Omega, Tudor or any other companies being too bulky. I think most(if not all) buyers would accept the slightly larger clasp in exchange for some micro-adjustment holes.

The hidden adjustable clasp on the Astron would be good on GS watches. The Astron is made in the same factory as the GS 9F quartz and Springdrive watches. How hard is it to have just gone down and snagged a Astron bracelet and looked at its micro-adjustment set up??


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## cody.rioux (Apr 8, 2020)

I'm more or less waiting until I see one of those limited edition +-5s/day quartz watches with a rotating bezel and a bracelet with quick adjust to jump on it. As soon as they up that bracelet I'll be jumping on it.


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## Sparrowhawk (May 22, 2006)

I believe some of the new GMT models have micro adjustment in the clasp. What it is not is automatically adjustable or on the fly.


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## De Wolfe (Jul 23, 2015)

How I solved that problem for the summer,


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## Mbappe (May 13, 2020)

De Wolfe said:


> How I solved that problem for the summer,


Looks cool! Where's the strap from?


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## peterbright (Oct 9, 2019)

I use straps because I do not like bracelets. I do understand the issue.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

My wrist is all bone with a thin covering of meat on it and it never alters size come snow or blow - winter or summer so “on the fly adjustment” is wasted in me.


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

For the price point, it's ridiculous how crappy the GS bracelets are. My SBGA211 lives on straps exclusively because I cannot, even with half links, get the bracelet to fit my 6.8" wrist comfortably (and the clasp has zero micro adjust). The hollow end link Oyster bracelet from my '93 Explorer II fits me perfectly (and it's near 30 years old), and the new SPB147 I have fits perfectly with microadjust, and it's 1/5 the price. Absolutely zero reason for the bracelet to be the way it is.


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## bombaywalla (Oct 8, 2011)

Imagestreet said:


> Sorry in advance if this topic has been done to death. I have four GS (SBGX291,SBGX293,SBGJ203, & SBGN007), and much as I like each of them (all fantastic watches), my experience is really being adversely affected by the fixed GS bracelets. Unfortunately I've experienced the classic Rolex-style glidelock (on a Ginault OceanRover of all things), and Omega's excellent adjustable clasp, and once you've experienced this level of wearing comfort, it's very difficult to accept a GS watch that hangs awkwardly off the wrist at certain times of the day. I don't really want to wear my watches on leather, and the GS solution of full/half links or even manual micro-adjust pins on the clasp (SBGE255 etc) just won't cut it for dealing with my daily/seasonal wrist size fluctuations (I may be an outlier here but given the constant forum gripes on adjustable clasps I suspect this is a common problem). If I can't find a comfortable fit, then all the zaratsu polishing, wonderful dials, and classic styling still doesn't really add up to a coherent package. The current SBGA229 diver adjustment clasp is very large, and somewhat industrial in design, and would not suit a heritage collection watch. Surely it's not beyond GS to offer an optional elegant micro-adjustable clasp, that could be retrofitted on heritage pieces if the user was not satisfied with the standard low-profile clasp/ half-link solution? At this point, I'd even consider quality 3rd party options, but I haven't found any that are compatible with GS bracelets (please shout if you know of any!). I've resolved not to buy any more GS (or any other watches) without this feature. Would be great if anyone that attends any forthcoming Grand Seiko events, could raise this question to company reps - it would be good to understand what the GS designers are thinking given the pent up demand for such a clasp.
> 
> View attachment 15472540


yeah, as an OR2 owner I have to agree that their glide-lock micro adjustment is really well done for the price point. I have a very similar mechanism in my Christopher Ward. Both watches are 1/4 to 1/5 the price. And, on the OR2, the bracelet is provided by a 3rd party from Asia. So I agree with you that GS has absolutely no excuse at their price point esp. if many of your GS owners have repeatedly raised this issue. I've read many threads on this topic often. I mean if GS cannot provide such a bracelet then have the AD suggest a suitable 3rd party provider that you guys could buy from - not in GS' best interest but they need to think of the customer who is paying a premium for their watches. so, I echo SaoDavi's sentiment - "hear, hear!"


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## Imagestreet (Apr 19, 2020)

sticky said:


> My wrist is all bone with a thin covering of meat on it and it never alters size come snow or blow - winter or summer so "on the fly adjustment" is wasted in me.


EXACTLY! For you, and possibly most GS owners, your needs are fulfilled by the existing elegant and discreet clasp without micro-adjustment. I'm pleased for you, and not in the slightest bitter and resentful of your consistent wrist size. 

However for the other poor souls with fluctuating wrist sizes, what if they could choose to pay £300-£400 extra for an optional larger 'heritage style' clasp with 3-5mm of micro-adjust, which would be sourced and fitted by the user, or AD / Service Centre. This option would not compromise the standard product design grammar, as the default option would be the existing minimalist bracelet clasp. 
This new micro-adjustable clasp option would close one of the major often stated gaps with direct competitors at the same or higher price point. It would delight existing customers and generate income from those prepared to make a small additional investment (relative to the purchase price of the watch), to improve their watch wearability and comfort. It would also show responsiveness to clear market needs and general market direction, and conform to the ethic of Japanese Kaizen or continuous improvement of standard product lines.

This offering of an optional clasp with micro-adjust is exactly what Omega do, and I have purchased one for my Speedmaster - it has transformed the wearability of the watch. If Grand Seiko were to offer this, I'd certainly be buying a few.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

IMHO, the ONLY major weak point on any GS.

No micro adjustments make for a very unhappy wrist.......especially a watch at this price point.......


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## TellingTime (Aug 22, 2014)

My SBGA 231 is adjustable on the fly. Not as refined as Omega's though.


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## BrianBinFL (Jan 10, 2018)

journeyforce said:


> A talk to a GS manager that was visiting my GS AD when I happened to be there back in Feb, told me that the reason for no micro-adjustment clasps it because it would be too bulky. Serious? Too Bulky. *Nobody has complained about micro adjustment clasps from Rolex, Omega, Tudor or any other companies being too bulky.* I think most(if not all) buyers would accept the slightly larger clasp in exchange for some micro-adjustment holes.


Sure they have. The Glidelock on the Submariner is insanely huge. It covers 2/3 of the bottom of your wrist or more. On a sport watch that's fine. If GS wanted to do that on one of their divers or chronos I'd be OK with it, but if they did it on a dressy watch, I'd never forgive them and I expect the number of new people that would buy it would be dwarfed by the number of people who might have but wouldn't because of the clasp.

I also would be horrified if they implemented a micro solution where you can see the holes on the outside for the various pin positions. Like this:










That said, there are other solutions out there and I think eventually Grand Seiko will offer something. However, it doesn't seem to be super high on their priority list.


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## aramingo_venango (Sep 17, 2017)

My last Grand Seiko, a SBGA275, was one of my favorite watches.










Unfortunately, it eventually became unwearable due to the lack of microadjust on its bracelet. I really had enough of the tiny screws on its bracelet, and I had to sell it.

No more GS for me until they solve this problem. I know they have the technical ability to completely eclipse Glidelock/Easylink but for some reason it's not a priority for them.


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## Jenik (Jul 23, 2014)

I think IWC clasp is not that huge, still have micro adjustment:


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## BrianBinFL (Jan 10, 2018)

Jenik said:


> I think IWC clasp is not that huge, still have micro adjustment:


That's a reasonable size. Thanks for the pictures.


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## Ginseng108 (May 10, 2017)

Jenik said:


> I think IWC clasp is not that huge, still have micro adjustment:


That clasp is a proper chunk. A bit more bulky, dense, and sophisticated than the 3-position tool-less adjustment clasp on my Seiko LX SNR033.


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## TransporterG (Aug 21, 2020)

With all the innovation at Seiko and how their product development reacts quickly to market trends, they can't do it on a simple bracelet??? After market pirate companies have been innovating on clasps and bracelets for decades.


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## De Wolfe (Jul 23, 2015)

Mbappe said:


> Looks cool! Where's the strap from?


They are Eulit perlon, got them from watchbandit.com (great guys).

You can also check link to my review (link in signature)


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## Roningrad (Aug 2, 2018)

+1 here for the list of clasp issue complainants!


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## CRW161 (Feb 1, 2016)

This may exist already, but I am wondering why there doesn't appear to be any bracelets with an internal spring mechanism that allows the bracelet to stretch slightly as the wrist expands.


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## Ginseng108 (May 10, 2017)

The Tudor Pelagos clasp has this but the mechanism adds some bulk.


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## roadcykler (Apr 6, 2011)

CRW161 said:


> This may exist already, but I am wondering why there doesn't appear to be any bracelets with an internal spring mechanism that allows the bracelet to stretch slightly as the wrist expands.


Speidel makes some.


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## Ginseng108 (May 10, 2017)

If GS or Seiko Prospex LX came with a clasp like the one on the Pelagos, there'd be no more complaints.


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## bombaywalla (Oct 8, 2011)

Ginseng108 said:


> If GS or Seiko Prospex LX came with a clasp like the one on the Pelagos, there'd be no more complaints.


Christopher Ward bracelets have pretty much this exact mechanism for micro-adjustments. Like in your Pelagos, it works really well....


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

bombaywalla said:


> Christopher Ward bracelets have pretty much this exact mechanism for micro-adjustments. Like in your Pelagos, it works really well....


I haven't handled the Pelagos, but the clasp looks LARGE and really only suitable on a large diver.

Regarding GS and the clasp adjustability, I agree. Keep making your opinions known. Don't buy a GS without it if you know you probably need it. I have owned 3 GS and adjustability on the bracelet is an issue.

With the wide variety that GS offers, there only a couple that I really like. I'm kind of holding out until they release something new that checks all the boxes.


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## Bizcut1 (Jan 1, 2014)

I definitely will not buy another one until this issue is addressed. Had a
beautiful SBGE 201 but could not get the bracelet to fit right as each
day brought different conditions that affected the comfort and wearability.


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## CRW161 (Feb 1, 2016)

It does take a few attempts but I am finding I can find a decent fit with the GS bracelet. 
With the half-links not being a half-link at all, and more like a 60% link, and using various permutations, it is possible to alter the size by a couple of mm e.g. substitute 1 x half-link for 1 x full gives an additional 4mm approx, or substitute 1 x full link for 2 x half is an even finer adjustment of about 2mm.
Yes, it is a bit of a faff, and nowhere near ideal, but until or unless GS offer a decent tool-less adjustable bracelet, I can find a compromise I can live with. YMMV of course.


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## bombaywalla (Oct 8, 2011)

CRW161 said:


> It does take a few attempts but I am finding I can find a decent fit with the GS bracelet.
> With the half-links not being a half-link at all, and more like a 60% link, and using various permutations, it is possible to alter the size by a couple of mm e.g. substitute 1 x half-link for 1 x full gives an additional 4mm approx, or substitute 1 x full link for 2 x half is an even finer adjustment of about 2mm.
> Yes, it is a bit of a faff, and nowhere near ideal, but until or unless GS offer a decent tool-less adjustable bracelet, I can find a compromise I can live with. YMMV of course.


I had to almost the same exercise with my Bulova Lunar Pilot. No micro adjustment so I had to swap 2 half links for a full link each to get an ok fit. I'm mostly happy but on some humid days I wish I could adjust it on-the-fly. But if I insert another 1/2 link it will spin on my wrist. & I don't know which genius decided to make the link pins 0.8mm?? ☹ there's hardly a sturdy tool that can pop these pins out. Gave up & took it to my jeweller. So, it was a most inconvenient exercise. And, this for a $500 watch. I can only imagine the frustration if you have paid a few thou for a GS....


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## Imagestreet (Apr 19, 2020)

CRW161 said:


> It does take a few attempts but I am finding I can find a decent fit with the GS bracelet.
> With the half-links not being a half-link at all, and more like a 60% link, and using various permutations, it is possible to alter the size by a couple of mm e.g. substitute 1 x half-link for 1 x full gives an additional 4mm approx, or substitute 1 x full link for 2 x half is an even finer adjustment of about 2mm.
> Yes, it is a bit of a faff, and nowhere near ideal, but until or unless GS offer a decent tool-less adjustable bracelet, I can find a compromise I can live with. YMMV of course.


Yes I did try this, and actually bought three additional half-links at £65 each (available to order from AD's or direct from Seiko UK Service Centre for those in the UK), however no matter what permutation I try, I can't get a fit that will comfortably cope with wrist size fluctation - probably because I actively dislike snug fitting bracelets and I always want there to be a slight gap for air circulation. For those of you that don't mind a snug fit than this solution would probably be sufficient.


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## CRW161 (Feb 1, 2016)

Imagestreet said:


> Yes I did try this, and actually bought three additional half-links at £65 each (available to order from AD's or direct from Seiko UK Service Centre for those in the UK), however no matter what permutation I try, I can't get a fit that will comfortably cope with wrist size fluctation - probably because I actively dislike snug fitting bracelets and I always want there to be a slight gap for air circulation. For those of you that don't mind a snug fit than this solution would probably be sufficient.


Sorry to hear that. 
Sounds like I am the exact opposite to you in that I dislike loose bracelets with the watch slipping down, so if it does get a bit snug at certain times maybe it is not such a great problem for me.
Hope you do find a viable solution soon.


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## bombaywalla (Oct 8, 2011)

CRW161 said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> Sounds like I am the exact opposite to you in that I dislike loose bracelets with the watch slipping down, so if it does get a bit snug at certain times maybe it is not such a great problem for me.
> Hope you do find a viable solution soon.


I _think_ Imagestreet & I might be in the same "fit" boat - like it snug but not too snug (Goldilocks correct!) where you can insert your little finger under the watch at the 2 lug ends. it's snug where it won't spin on your wrist but not so tight that it will cut-off blood supply or make your skin itch/sweat on humid days.


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## bombaywalla (Oct 8, 2011)

OK, now i feel the pain...........
Just received a SBGN003 in the mail today & sized it to my wrist - what a freaking PITA!! 😲 Such tiny, tiny screws - except on the Apple iPhones - I've never seen such small screws in a bracelet. I nearly lost my eyesight re-sizing that bracelet. And, very thankfully, a combination of 1/2 & full-sized links did the trick. I was quite apprehensive about getting a good fit after reading & knowing about this thread. 
Yes, an on-the-fly adjustment would have really done the trick after going nearly blind removing & re-attaching links.....
Anyway, it is done now & hopefully forever....


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## roadcykler (Apr 6, 2011)

In one of the informational posts pinned at the top, they talked about the reason being because of the bulk involved with that type of closure. I say, if you don't like it, don't buy one or plan to change out the bracelet. You can always send your thoughts to the company too and if enough people talk about it, they may change things or at least make that an option.


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## F1_watches (Sep 3, 2017)

bombaywalla said:


> OK, now i feel the pain...........
> Just received a SBGN003 in the mail today & sized it to my wrist - what a freaking PITA!!  Such tiny, tiny screws - except on the Apple iPhones - I've never seen such small screws in a bracelet. I nearly lost my eyesight re-sizing that bracelet. And, very thankfully, a combination of 1/2 & full-sized links did the trick. I was quite apprehensive about getting a good fit after reading & knowing about this thread.
> Yes, an on-the-fly adjustment would have really done the trick after going nearly blind removing & re-attaching links.....
> Anyway, it is done now & hopefully forever....


I went through the same hassle with that same ref the other day... super case and dial and hands. Mediocre bracelet at best. The watch now fits as well as it can, which is good but certainly not Rolex oyster clasp / 5mm extension good. And those GS screws are so tiny, it's like the size that ants would use if they wore watches.


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## bombaywalla (Oct 8, 2011)

roadcykler said:


> In one of the informational posts pinned at the top, they talked about the reason being because of the bulk involved with that type of closure. I say, if you don't like it, don't buy one or plan to change out the bracelet. You can always send your thoughts to the company too and if enough people talk about it, they may change things or at least make that an option.


oh, ok. if it's not asking for too much could you provide a link to that "informational posts pinned at the top" --> from your language I'm assuming you are talking about a "sticky" thread. I did not see one on this subject. 
If you are talking a post in this thread then I completely missed that one --> please tell which post number it is. 
Thanks.


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## roadcykler (Apr 6, 2011)

bombaywalla said:


> oh, ok. if it's not asking for too much could you provide a link to that "informational posts pinned at the top" --> from your language I'm assuming you are talking about a "sticky" thread. I did not see one on this subject.
> If you are talking a post in this thread then I completely missed that one --> please tell which post number it is.
> Thanks.


In Part 2, it says "With the exception of sport models, Grand Seiko does not use micro-adjustable clasps in order to create a more seamless integration with the rest of the bracelet and reduce the potential bulk and weight on the clasp itself."


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## SaoDavi (Jan 28, 2014)

roadcykler said:


> In Part 2, it says "With the exception of sport models, Grand Seiko does not use micro-adjustable clasps in order to create a more seamless integration with the rest of the bracelet and reduce the potential bulk and weight on the clasp itself."


I guess it's easier for them to write that sentence than to innovate.


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## WiZARD7 (Apr 4, 2012)

roadcykler said:


> You can always send your thoughts to the company too and if enough people talk about it, they may change things or at least make that an option.


Where is this possible? I couldn't find on grand-seiko.com any contact form, or email address or any possibility to tell them my thoughts.


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## roadcykler (Apr 6, 2011)

WiZARD7 said:


> Where is this possible? I couldn't find on grand-seiko.com any contact form, or email address or any possibility to tell them my thoughts.


You have to fish around a little but it's under Support-Grand Seiko International Service Network - North America and then on the right side there's this [email protected] There's also a 1-800 number.


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## Imagestreet (Apr 19, 2020)

SaoDavi said:


> I guess it's easier for them to write that sentence than to innovate.


They should start thinking about it. If they want to crack the American luxury market (and other western markets) they need to start taking wearing comfort seriously, along with engineering excellence and aesthetics. Seriously how difficult would it be to offer an optional 'heritage style' adjustable clasp upgrade for those that were prepared to pay for it. They only have two main bracelet styles across the majority of their line up - I believe there is a lot of potential customers (historical and future) for such an option.


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## bombaywalla (Oct 8, 2011)

Imagestreet said:


> They should start thinking about it. If they want to crack the American luxury market (and other western markets) they need to start taking wearing comfort seriously, along with engineering excellence and aesthetics. Seriously how difficult would it be to offer an optional 'heritage style' adjustable clasp upgrade for those that were prepared to pay for it. They only have two main bracelet styles across the majority of their line up - I believe there is a lot of potential customers (historical and future) for such an option.


Seriously, for the price of every GS the on-the-fly adjustable clasp should be default. Every other Swiss manuf offering watches at the same price already does that. So, why not GS? For the price of the GS watch they should not nickel-and-dime the customer to buy an optional adjustable clasp....
There are soooo many examples for slim design on-the-fly adjustable clasps from the Swiss - use those as inspiration for their own design. It's really not that hard....


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

roadcykler said:


> You have to fish around a little but it's under Support-Grand Seiko International Service Network - North America and then on the right side there's this [email protected] There's also a 1-800 number.


Or you can take it to an GS AD and ask them to size it for you. Let the AD deal with the hassle of adjustment. An AD is going to have a better line of contact to GS than you or I.

Joe Kirk is also very accessible. Beat him up over it.


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## rdoder (Jul 13, 2013)

For sure, having some micro adjustment holes would have been nice.

I tried to size GS bracelet such that it’s not too loose or tight most of the time, but sometimes, it gets a little too tight.

Whereas Datejust II with micro adjustment holes is slightly better, though it feels recently to be a little loose, which I guess is okay. I rarely use the Easylink (figure I’d wear it out if I keep clicking it in and out), and prefer to size the bracelet somewhat optimally and leave it.


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## F1_watches (Sep 3, 2017)

Eager for GS to finally step up with a good adjustable no-tools clasp. At first, I bought a good ten or so GS the last few years and then finally traded them all-in over time. I'm done. I'm not a Rolex or Omega guy but they nailed their adjustments.


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## GregoryD (Jan 31, 2009)

Seiko already has an off-the-shelf tool-less adjustable clasp, but afaik it's only used on the Astron. And it's really not bulky at all. They'd probably have to make it a bit nicer to match the GS bracelets, but it's mind-boggling to me that they have this clasp available and are choosing not to use it. (not my photo)


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## feline (Mar 22, 2020)

But also one less part to breath, though.


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## yokied (Jan 7, 2017)

I have been so close to getting a custom clasp machined it’s just not funny.


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## artix (Apr 2, 2020)

Jenik said:


> I think IWC clasp is not that huge, still have micro adjustment:
> View attachment 15475779
> 
> 
> View attachment 15475780


the IWC strap is the best!


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## Ginseng108 (May 10, 2017)

It's used on the Prospex LX SNR033 GMT (and variants) as well. Same item. Here it is on the Prospex and the SSH063 Astron. Both full titanium. And you're right, it's very slim and pretty useful with the three-position adjustability. These are my watches.











GregoryD said:


> Seiko already has an off-the-shelf tool-less adjustable clasp, but afaik it's only used on the Astron. And it's really not bulky at all. They'd probably have to make it a bit nicer to match the GS bracelets, but it's mind-boggling to me that they have this clasp available and are choosing not to use it. (not my photo)


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## Gmjoffercollect (Jan 22, 2020)

Are there any aftermarket bracelets or clasps which would be a viable replacement? Is that insane?


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## Ced Craig (Mar 31, 2020)

I love my sbgm221 (on leather) and love GS in general. I'm in the market for a nice blue dial watch and the GS Heritage collection has several that interest me, but *GS/Timeless if you're listening: I will NOT buy another GS until the bracelets have micro-adjustability. *

Like many, I change straps on my watches, leather, NATO, MN, mesh, but I want the OEM bracelet to be top quality and have micro-adjustability.

Next year is another big year for Seiko/GS, so I hope GS can somehow figure out their bracelet issues for what I expect should be some nice, new releases. Even cheapo bracelets typically have spring-bar tool micro-adjustability.


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## drunken-gmt-master (Mar 29, 2018)

CRW161 said:


> This may exist already, but I am wondering why there doesn't appear to be any bracelets with an internal spring mechanism that allows the bracelet to stretch slightly as the wrist expands.


Back in the '60s-70s, NSA (Novavit) made bracelets w/folding clasps for various watch brands, including Heuer, Tissot, Zodiac, etc., & under their own name that had internal springs for expansion. Sadly, they went out of business around the time of the Quartz Crisis, although there are some modern bracelets that use the same mechanism (such as Rado for some of their bracelets for their Original series & I think Zodiac for some of their Sea Wolf models).


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## roadcykler (Apr 6, 2011)

Ced Craig said:


> I love my sbgm221 (on leather) and love GS in general. I'm in the market for a nice blue dial watch and the GS Heritage collection has several that interest me, but *GS/Timeless if you're listening: I will NOT buy another GS until the bracelets have micro-adjustability. *
> 
> Like many, I change straps on my watches, leather, NATO, MN, mesh, but I want the OEM bracelet to be top quality and have micro-adjustability.
> 
> Next year is another big year for Seiko/GS, so I hope GS can somehow figure out their bracelet issues for what I expect should be some nice, new releases. Even cheapo bracelets typically have spring-bar tool micro-adjustability.


What's big about 2021 as far as Grand Seiko goes?


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Ginseng108 said:


> That clasp is a proper chunk. A bit more bulky, dense, and sophisticated than the 3-position tool-less adjustment clasp on my Seiko LX SNR033.
> 
> View attachment 15475919
> 
> ...


This. I have the same in Ti on a Seiko Astron. Why don't think incorporate this to GS?


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## bombaywalla (Oct 8, 2011)

TraserH3 said:


> This. I have the same in Ti on a Seiko Astron. Why don't think incorporate this to GS?


yup! the hundred thousand dollar question asked by many of us.............


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## uncle6 (Sep 25, 2015)

Mbappe said:


> Looks cool! Where's the strap from?


It is a Perlon strap.
Eulit from Germany makes some nice one at a very affordable price.


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## gorkem (Dec 25, 2018)

use the half links wisely, and you won't have any problem 

there are two half links, two half links combined are a little larger than a full link. so if you want it a little loose use the two half links and remove a full link

a little tight remove two half-links add a full link 

a two-hole micro-adjust will make the grand Seiko clasp perfect for swelling wrists. some people have that problem especially the ones that like to use the watch with a tight fit above the wrist bone


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## Ced Craig (Mar 31, 2020)

roadcykler said:


> What's big about 2021 as far as Grand Seiko goes?


It's Seiko's 140th birthday in 2021. GS likes celebrating anniversaries, with lots of special models in 2020, for GS's 60th (and Kintaro Hattori's 160th). Since they've been gaining more and more success lately, I figure they'll want to build on that next year. I don't have any inside scoop, though, just guessing.


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## roadcykler (Apr 6, 2011)

Ced Craig said:


> It's Seiko's 140th birthday in 2021. GS likes celebrating anniversaries, with lots of special models in 2020, for GS's 60th (and Kintaro Hattori's 160th). Since they've been gaining more and more success lately, I figure they'll want to build on that next year. I don't have any inside scoop, though, just guessing.


Seeings as I plan on getting my first Spring Drive in early 2022, if they come up with something that really catches my eye, I may just have to get one a little early.


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## jbd3 (Mar 19, 2015)

I only have one Grand Seiko, an SBGH273. And, ok, I know it's not a dive watch, but some quick adjustment provision to the bracelet is the _only_ nit I can pick with that watch.


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## Jay P W (Dec 22, 2015)

Imagestreet said:


> Sorry in advance if this topic has been done to death. I have four GS (SBGX291,SBGX293,SBGJ203, & SBGN007), and much as I like each of them (all fantastic watches), my experience is really being adversely affected by the fixed GS bracelets. Unfortunately I've experienced the classic Rolex-style glidelock (on a Ginault OceanRover of all things), and Omega's excellent adjustable clasp, and once you've experienced this level of wearing comfort, it's very difficult to accept a GS watch that hangs awkwardly off the wrist at certain times of the day. I don't really want to wear my watches on leather, and the GS solution of full/half links or even manual micro-adjust pins on the clasp (SBGE255 etc) just won't cut it for dealing with my daily/seasonal wrist size fluctuations (I may be an outlier here but given the constant forum gripes on adjustable clasps I suspect this is a common problem). If I can't find a comfortable fit, then all the zaratsu polishing, wonderful dials, and classic styling still doesn't really add up to a coherent package. The current SBGA229 diver adjustment clasp is very large, and somewhat industrial in design, and would not suit a heritage collection watch. Surely it's not beyond GS to offer an optional elegant micro-adjustable clasp, that could be retrofitted on heritage pieces if the user was not satisfied with the standard low-profile clasp/ half-link solution? At this point, I'd even consider quality 3rd party options, but I haven't found any that are compatible with GS bracelets (please shout if you know of any!). I've resolved not to buy any more GS (or any other watches) without this feature. Would be great if anyone that attends any forthcoming Grand Seiko events, could raise this question to company reps - it would be good to understand what the GS designers are thinking given the pent up demand for such a clasp.
> 
> View attachment 15472540





jbd3 said:


> I only have one Grand Seiko, an SBGH273. And, ok, I know it's not a dive watch, but some quick adjustment provision to the bracelet is the _only_ nit I can pick with that watch.


Even my cheap Citizen Promaster has an on-the-fly micro adjust. Not a very elegant one, but one all the same


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## busch12 (Jun 29, 2013)

In on the petition to not buy another GS until they improve their clasp game. Sold by SBGX259 because of this. Couldn't get a good fit, didn't like it on leather. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

busch12 said:


> In on the petition to not buy another GS until they improve their clasp game. Sold by SBGX259 because of this. Couldn't get a good fit, didn't like it on leather.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is most frustrating. I'd like to see at least GS including 3 half-links, instead of 2 on most of their bracelets.


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## BrianBinFL (Jan 10, 2018)

Granted that it's not an on the fly adjustment - but with the Grand Seiko link/partial link arrangement you can adjust the bracelet a tenth of an inch (about 2.5mm) at a time. Even the heinous and unwieldy Submariner Glidelock clasp is only 2mm increments so I don't think that you can do much better than the GS arrangement.

That said, it's a lot more work to get that perfect fit with the bespoke arrangement of link changes being required. But the clasp also isn't 7 feet wide like the Sub.


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## JLittle (Nov 7, 2020)

Literally THE only thing I'd change about the Snowflake. Other than that, it's an A+ watch.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

BrianBinFL said:


> Granted that it's not an on the fly adjustment - but with the Grand Seiko link/partial link arrangement you can adjust the bracelet a tenth of an inch (about 2.5mm) at a time. Even the heinous and unwieldy Submariner Glidelock clasp is only 2mm increments so I don't think that you can do much better than the GS arrangement.
> 
> That said, it's a lot more work to get that perfect fit with the bespoke arrangement of link changes being required. But the clasp also isn't 7 feet wide like the Sub.


Was just looking for that post, you're a godsend @BrianBinFL! I'm going to play around with the sizing on my Spring again, because even though it's the same looseness as the Snowflake, perhaps because the head is smaller(?), it moves around a bit more.


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## SolarPower (May 14, 2012)

BrianBinFL said:


> Granted that it's not an on the fly adjustment - but with the Grand Seiko link/partial link arrangement you can adjust the bracelet a tenth of an inch (about 2.5mm) at a time. Even the heinous and unwieldy Submariner Glidelock clasp is only 2mm increments so I don't think that you can do much better than the GS arrangement.
> 
> That said, it's a lot more work to get that perfect fit with the bespoke arrangement of link changes being required. But the clasp also isn't 7 feet wide like the Sub.


As a matter of fact I adjusted the SBGA273 bracelet to my exact liking with no problem. Although it would be nice to have a micro adjustment built-in, it's not a showstopper for me at all.


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## JLittle (Nov 7, 2020)

SolarPower said:


> As a matter of fact I adjusted the SBGA273 bracelet to my exact liking with no problem. Although it would be nice to have a micro adjustment built-in, it's not a showstopper for me at all.


I really have to work at getting good at doing things like that.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

JLittle said:


> I really have to work at getting good at doing things like that.


I recommend this little tool, Amazon.com: Paylak TSLK3 Watch Band Pin Remover and Link Remover: Watches. Makes it an easy enough job.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

Tinkered around with bracelet sizing on the Spring last night. Pin-to-pin the half-link is ~7mm and the full-link is ~9.1mm. It was slightly too loose at times, probably because of it being winter in New England. I removed a FL and added the last HL I have, but now it's slightly too tight at times. Interesting how different ~2.1mm can be. Will probably pop swap back for the FL once spring rolls around.


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## BrianBinFL (Jan 10, 2018)

kritameth said:


> Tinkered around with bracelet sizing on the Spring last night. Pin-to-pin the half-link is ~7mm and the full-link is ~9.1mm. It was slightly too loose at times, probably because of it being winter in New England. I removed a FL and added the last HL I have, but now it's slightly too tight at times. Interesting how different ~2.1mm can be. Will probably pop swap back for the FL once spring rolls around.


I definitely would prefer slightly tight over flopping around. So you have two partial links in the mix presently? Can I see a picture of where the clasp lands on the bottom of your wrist?


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

BrianBinFL said:


> I definitely would prefer slightly tight over flopping around. So you have two partial links in the mix presently? Can I see a picture of where the clasp lands on the bottom of your wrist?


Yep, two half-links on either side of the clasp. The signed part sits pretty much at the center, but the entire clasp, i.e. including the folded hinge that's hidden, rests towards the 12 o'clock side of the watch, if that makes sense. I could move the half-link from the 6 o'clock side over to the 12 o'clock side to shift the entire clasp to be more centered, but because the clasp doesn't sit completely flush against the bracelet (visible in the first picture) shifting it further up wouldn't look as clean on wrist IMO. And because it's slightly too tight the watch head doesn't have that tendency to rotate away to the outside anyway.


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## BrianBinFL (Jan 10, 2018)

kritameth said:


> Yep, two half-links on either side of the clasp. The signed part sits pretty much at the center, but the entire clasp, i.e. including the folded hinge that's hidden, rests towards the 12 o'clock side of the watch, if that makes sense. I could move the half-link from the 6 o'clock side over to the 12 o'clock side to shift the entire clasp to be more centered, but because the clasp doesn't sit completely flush against the bracelet (visible in the first picture) shifting it further up wouldn't look as clean on wrist IMO. And because it's slightly too tight the watch head doesn't have that tendency to rotate away to the outside anyway.


You like to wear your bracelets about the same way I do - with the clasp centered on the bottom of the wrist. This results in the segment of the bracelet that is on the 6 o'clock side being quite a bit shorter than the segment on the 12 o'clock side. I know some people try to keep the segments the same length - but I don't care how long the segments are - I care where the clasp lands.

Anyway, if you need the bracelet to fit just a tiny bit different, and if you can tolerate the clasp being less centered, as you move links from the 12 o'clock segment to the 6 o'clock segment, this will move the hinged/folded part of the clasp that actually lays up against your wrist more toward the edge of your wrist. Depending upon the shape of your wrist this can make the bracelet fit slightly tighter or slightly looser.

That said, it would leave the clasp off-center on the bottom of your wrist and that might bother you more. 

But it is handy little trick that doesn't get discussed very often here.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

BrianBinFL said:


> You like to wear your bracelets about the same way I do - with the clasp centered on the bottom of the wrist. This results in the segment of the bracelet that is on the 6 o'clock side being quite a bit shorter than the segment on the 12 o'clock side. I know some people try to keep the segments the same length - but I don't care how long the segments are - I care where the clasp lands.
> 
> Anyway, if you need the bracelet to fit just a tiny bit different, and if you can tolerate the clasp being less centered, as you move links from the 12 o'clock segment to the 6 o'clock segment, this will move the hinged/folded part of the clasp that actually lays up against your wrist more toward the edge of your wrist. Depending upon the shape of your wrist this can make the bracelet fit slightly tighter or slightly looser.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've come across one or two bracelets where I could get away with matching links on both sides, I believe usually those with long diver's clasp and if I'm on the last hole, but it still wasn't the best configuration. On this I'm 6 links on the 6 o'clock and 9 links on the 12 o'clock. And thanks for the tip! Tried that on the BB36 and it really works, just wasn't enough to stop me from having to sell it due to the lack of half-links. 😅


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## SolarPower (May 14, 2012)

kritameth said:


> Yep, two half-links on either side of the clasp. The signed part sits pretty much at the center, but the entire clasp, i.e. including the folded hinge that's hidden, rests towards the 12 o'clock side of the watch, if that makes sense. I could move the half-link from the 6 o'clock side over to the 12 o'clock side to shift the entire clasp to be more centered, but because the clasp doesn't sit completely flush against the bracelet (visible in the first picture) shifting it further up wouldn't look as clean on wrist IMO. And because it's slightly too tight the watch head doesn't have that tendency to rotate away to the outside anyway.
> View attachment 15613335
> View attachment 15613336


Replace HF with FL at the bottom of the clasp and you are G2G


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## deepreddave (Apr 2, 2015)

This continues to be a deal breaker with me for another GS. If IWC can do it then I'm sure GS can!


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## Natsume (Jun 3, 2018)

this is a deal breaker for with both GS and the Zenith Defy Classic, i wonder if it's such a pain to either copy & paste from another brand or develop such a feature by themself


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## Gerry.GEG (Mar 5, 2006)

Imagestreet said:


> Sorry in advance if this topic has been done to death. I have four GS (SBGX291,SBGX293,SBGJ203, & SBGN007), and much as I like each of them (all fantastic watches), my experience is really being adversely affected by the fixed GS bracelets. Unfortunately I've experienced the classic Rolex-style glidelock (on a Ginault OceanRover of all things), and Omega's excellent adjustable clasp, and once you've experienced this level of wearing comfort, it's very difficult to accept a GS watch that hangs awkwardly off the wrist at certain times of the day. I don't really want to wear my watches on leather, and the GS solution of full/half links or even manual micro-adjust pins on the clasp (SBGE255 etc) just won't cut it for dealing with my daily/seasonal wrist size fluctuations (I may be an outlier here but given the constant forum gripes on adjustable clasps I suspect this is a common problem). If I can't find a comfortable fit, then all the zaratsu polishing, wonderful dials, and classic styling still doesn't really add up to a coherent package. The current SBGA229 diver adjustment clasp is very large, and somewhat industrial in design, and would not suit a heritage collection watch. Surely it's not beyond GS to offer an optional elegant micro-adjustable clasp, that could be retrofitted on heritage pieces if the user was not satisfied with the standard low-profile clasp/ half-link solution? At this point, I'd even consider quality 3rd party options, but I haven't found any that are compatible with GS bracelets (please shout if you know of any!). I've resolved not to buy any more GS (or any other watches) without this feature. Would be great if anyone that attends any forthcoming Grand Seiko events, could raise this question to company reps - it would be good to understand what the GS designers are thinking given the pent up demand for such a clasp.
> 
> View attachment 15472540


Agreed, I've owned two now without this adjustability and that has always been a issue. Too many links, ahh, not enough, too damn tight! ahhhh! Such beautiful watches but if I can't wear the watch on the bracelet when I want, what's the point?


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## montelatici (Apr 28, 2006)

Agreed, it is not convenient but, I have been able to adjust it myself, so it hasn't been too much of an issue for me.


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## GabeinAtx (11 mo ago)

Imagestreet said:


> Sorry in advance if this topic has been done to death. I have four GS (SBGX291,SBGX293,SBGJ203, & SBGN007), and much as I like each of them (all fantastic watches), my experience is really being adversely affected by the fixed GS bracelets. Unfortunately I've experienced the classic Rolex-style glidelock (on a Ginault OceanRover of all things), and Omega's excellent adjustable clasp, and once you've experienced this level of wearing comfort, it's very difficult to accept a GS watch that hangs awkwardly off the wrist at certain times of the day. I don't really want to wear my watches on leather, and the GS solution of full/half links or even manual micro-adjust pins on the clasp (SBGE255 etc) just won't cut it for dealing with my daily/seasonal wrist size fluctuations (I may be an outlier here but given the constant forum gripes on adjustable clasps I suspect this is a common problem). If I can't find a comfortable fit, then all the zaratsu polishing, wonderful dials, and classic styling still doesn't really add up to a coherent package. The current SBGA229 diver adjustment clasp is very large, and somewhat industrial in design, and would not suit a heritage collection watch. Surely it's not beyond GS to offer an optional elegant micro-adjustable clasp, that could be retrofitted on heritage pieces if the user was not satisfied with the standard low-profile clasp/ half-link solution? At this point, I'd even consider quality 3rd party options, but I haven't found any that are compatible with GS bracelets (please shout if you know of any!). I've resolved not to buy any more GS (or any other watches) without this feature. Would be great if anyone that attends any forthcoming Grand Seiko events, could raise this question to company reps - it would be good to understand what the GS designers are thinking given the pent up demand for such a clasp.
> 
> View attachment 15472540


Agree 100%


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## nurpur (Feb 14, 2016)

Gerry.GEG said:


> Agreed, I've owned two now without this adjustability and that has always been a issue. Too many links, ahh, not enough, too damn tight! ahhhh! Such beautiful watches but if I can't wear the watch on the bracelet when I want, what's the point?


Been there, done that, done it again and again. Love the GS's on bracelet but impossible to wear on my wrist as it 
changes about one link over a day. Trying out some leathers with micro adjustable deployant. Really love the 
SBGR017 and will try anything to keep it!


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## mitch57 (Jan 8, 2014)

nurpur said:


> Been there, done that, done it again and again. Love the GS's on bracelet but impossible to wear on my wrist as it
> changes about one link over a day. Trying out some leathers with micro adjustable deployant. Really love the
> SBGR017 and will try anything to keep it!
> 
> ...


Yep. I hear you. I have the same issue. Some people claim they can size it once and forget it. I don't even see how that's possible if your coming from 75 degree house and step out into 25 degree Fahrenheit temp or 95 degree temp. Your body/wrist will expand and contract with changes temperatures. 

This is one of the reasons I'm moving away from GS. There are a few other companies that make a better overall watch at similar price points with the best bracelets and on the fly clasps in the watch industry. GS needs to up there game if they're going to up their prices.


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

journeyforce said:


> Amen to that one Brother.
> 
> It is funny, there is a post on this forum called Grand Seiko Comments on 2020 Rolex releases where all these folks bash Rolex. They are calling out the fact that one of Rolex's big new things is offering a bunch of new dial colors and that GS created a new movement. Thats really great. The Constant Force movement looks pretty cool, earlier this year they came out with the Soko duo for the USA Market. Pretty nice also.
> 
> ...


100000000% agree

Seiko happily puts this excellent clasp on the Spring Drive GMT they sell for $5500. It's not bulky AT ALL. 

Meanwhile they REFUSE to use it on GS. Even as an option.


WHAT THE HELL?!??


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

mitch57 said:


> Yep. I hear you. I have the same issue. Some people claim they can size it once and forget it. I don't even see how that's possible if your coming from 75 degree house and step out into 25 degree Fahrenheit temp or 95 degree temp. Your body/wrist will expand and contract with changes temperatures.
> 
> This is one of the reasons I'm moving away from GS. There are a few other companies that make a better overall watch at similar price points with the best bracelets and on the fly clasps in the watch industry. GS needs to up there game if they're going to up their prices.


GS makes some of the best movements and watch heads out there.

Their bracelets are getting better.

Then they just fall apart at the clasp..... They aren't poorly made, they're just stuck 15 years in the past. When Tag Heuer is putting tool less micro adjust clasps in their Aquaracer and Tudor is putting them into the BB58 (FINALLY) GS has ZERO excuse not to put them into all of their Sports lineup at the very least. And we KNOW they have the technical skill to make a slim clasp with tool less micro adjust.

The current solution they use on some GS divers is IMHO ugly as sin and cheapens the watch.


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## Commisar (May 2, 2019)

aramingo_venango said:


> My last Grand Seiko, a SBGA275, was one of my favorite watches.
> 
> View attachment 15474250
> 
> ...


I wouldn't mind that on a strap, a Bonklip, or a Forester"astronaut" mesh bracelet.


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

Commisar said:


> GS makes some of the best movements and watch heads out there.
> 
> Their bracelets are getting better.
> 
> ...



I agree. At the last AD event (Oct 2021) with the GS Rep present, I handed him this Citizen Attesa that would have had an MSRP of about $500 new and showed him the thin small clasp which had a tool-less micro adjustment that had the equivalent of 3 micro-adjust spaces. I asked him why this $500 MSRP watch had this but yet my $3000 GS did not. He had no explanation.


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