# Stolen 1997 Rolex Submariner 16610 Stolen 17/10/2018 Serial Number U341861



## demof1

Stolen 1997 Rolex Submariner 16610 Stolen 17/10/2018

-Watch model reference number 1997 Rolex Submariner 16610

-Watch serial number U341861

-Stolen whilst in transit from Sydney to Melbourne using ParcelPoint couriers.




































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## demof1

Police reports filed at the time. Watch added to the stolen watch register and rolex themselves have been notified. ParcelPoint have denied ever having the watch in their possession at the time it was 'lost', however the tracking infromation speaks for itself.

I have always been skeptical regarding ParcelPoints role in this theft. When I contacted their management they were both defensive and abusive. They would not provide information regarding who the driver was at the time but they stated they had spoken with them. The driver stated the parcel had been passed onto the 'next courier'. However the watch also never left New South Wales. The entire matter is very mysterious. Nevertheless, I am hopeful one day the watch may reappear somewhere out there.


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## Rolexplorer

*Keep up the pressure.* Everyone involved is worried about this falling on them. That is why the denial, misdirection of responsibility, etc.
I have a feeling you can get to the bottom of this with police assistance.


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## demof1




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## demof1

I will also point out this was an ebay return. The buyer noticed something I had missed, namely that the minute hand was luminova and not tritium. Based on this, the buyer used the ebay return system rather than actually send it securely as I had sent the watch to him. This is where ParcelPoint came into the picture. 

I still wonder if ParcelPoint are aware of the items they are shipping. If they knew they were carrying a Rolex then the watch was doomed the moment the buyer decided to ship it using the method he chose. Once I accepted the return I was willing to cover return shipping costs to ensure the watch was sent safely and with the appropriate cover. However I received a message from the buyer stating he had left my watch at a chemist. The rest is history...


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## DonJ53

You gave them 0 out of 10 then.


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## hllkll33

I had a watch stolen during transit as well, did my due diligence....and as much as it hurts to say : you will never see that watch or money again.


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## Roningrad

I’m sorry to hear the tragedy that happened. Harass them unceasingly! Pester the heck out of them! Eventually, a formal investigation within parcel pro coupled by police efforts would rock the boat more.


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## demof1

Roningrad said:


> I'm sorry to hear the tragedy that happened. Harass them unceasingly! Pester the heck out of them! Eventually, a formal investigation within parcel pro coupled by police efforts would rock the boat more.


I did for a little while. However I was then contacted by their lawyer and told to cease contacting them. He also had my email blocked by their IT department org wide so I could no longer contact them. Fantastic customer service.


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## Roningrad

demof1 said:


> I did for a little while. However I was then contacted by their lawyer and told to cease contacting them. He also had my email blocked by their IT department org wide so I could no longer contact them. Fantastic customer service.


Wow. Isn't that outstanding, pro-active customer support!

Have u tried consulting a lawyer to assess your situation, potential claim, and perhaps advise you of subsequent actions and steps to recoup?


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## demof1

Roningrad said:


> Wow. Isn't that outstanding, pro-active customer support!
> 
> Have u tried consulting a lawyer to assess your situation and potential to claim?


I havent no, this is really my last hope. As this post is now appearing on google search results anyone who simply googles the serial number will be brought here.

Like others have suggested above, the watch probably has a new serial number now to match a different set of papers.


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## Rolexplorer

I repeat: Post # 3

Only serious legal action will aid you at this point, and it needs to be taken --- unless you want to roll over and give up.


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## composer

Do not give up OP. Any updates?


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## demof1

composer said:


> Do not give up OP. Any updates?


Thanks for checking in. No news as yet. Parcel Point will not respond to my emails, so I gave up on them long ago. My only hope for this post is that now the serial number is broadcast out there. A quick google search will take anyone here and then hopefully I may have some new information. Until then, I will just wait.


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## Nate's Watches

demof1 said:


> Police reports filed at the time. Watch added to the stolen watch register and rolex themselves have been notified. ParcelPoint have denied ever having the watch in their possession at the time it was 'lost', however the tracking infromation speaks for itself.
> 
> I have always been skeptical regarding ParcelPoints role in this theft. When I contacted their management they were both defensive and abusive. They would not provide information regarding who the driver was at the time but they stated they had spoken with them. The driver stated the parcel had been passed onto the 'next courier'. However the watch also never left New South Wales. The entire matter is very mysterious. Nevertheless, I am hopeful one day the watch may reappear somewhere out there.


Anecdotal but I have heard of a different shipping company commuting fraud similar to this. It's really messed up but as others have said I don't think these situations usually turn out well. Best of luck though!


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## demof1

Nate's Watches said:


> Anecdotal but I have heard of a different shipping company commuting fraud similar to this. It's really messed up but as others have said I don't think these situations usually turn out well. Best of luck though!


Hey I appreciate the comments. I know it wasnt a fantastic situation and believe me I felt completely physically sick for a few days when this happened. Its in the past now and I hope somehow this post either shakes the watch loose or at least is a lesson for others about using sub par couriers. When it comes to watches like these, never cut corners when posting.


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## demof1

Shiny-Lights said:


> op does the courier knew what is inside the box for shipping? how would they knew it was a Rolex inside and therefore stole it?


Well I have always had my suspicions. I have never had anything technically go missing in the post (An ebay return of a vintage 1968 Tudor recently was lost in transit according to the seller or never posted - then she relisted it on ebay, so thats an ongoing case).

You see the one thing I left out of my post was that the buyer tried to scam me again a few months later. So that incident made me look back on my 'lost' submariner with some skepticism now. The buyer is a person who actually runs a large accounting firm in Sydney. He returned that 1997 Sub under such swift and contrived circumstances I was not even given an opportunity to demand it be shipped as it was shipped to him, with express insured coverage. I would have paid for it. No, he leaves at a chemist using the ebay return process. The watch was returned as the minute hand had luminova. Now, he could have asked prior to buying it since it was such a huge deal breaker for him. No he doesnt ask me. Just buys it and returns it immediately.

So fast forward a few months later. I decided for obvious reasons to steer clear of this individual. I come into possesion of a 1974 Submariner 1680. I decided to have the watch appraised in lieu of possibly a partial trade/cash offer with the Sydney Watch Exchange (Now called Luxuria Watches). I ship the watch to Sydney with full cover express post. I then get a message from a person called 'Khov' who runs the Sydney Watch Exchange who informs me that the dial is fake on this vintage 1680. Well I knew for a fact it was 100% authentic. You see I had posted photos of it on facebook in the vintage rolex forum, in the vintage rolex forum itself, everywhere, everyone said it was a great piece, all original. The photos were macro by the way. So I had no doubt it was real. When I eventually sold it the buyer had no doubts and I have never heard about it again. Back to 2018. So Khov tells me the dial is fake. He then rather curiously asks me 'What do you want to do with it?'. My alarm bells started going off at this point as this just sounded like a scam. So I demand he ship it back immediately using express tracked post. He agrees to do so. No sooner had I hung up the phone then I get a message from you guessed it, the buyer of the 1997 Submariner and he said to me 'I hear your watch has a fake dial, what are you going to do'. Now this was only about thirty seconds after I had hung up on Khov. Its pretty clear he was told about the arrangement prior to Khov contacting me. Also, it seems they got their timing wrong, so I was contacted by this guy way too soon. I told him I was keeping it and he said 'but the dial is fake, are you sure..'. The whole thing stank.

Then really oddly later that day I received a message from none other than Archie Luxury (Paul Pluta) himself. He stated in the message (which I have a screenshot of) a few foul words but he also mentions that he has 'poisoned' a deal for me with regards to the 1974 Submariner.










So you ask did someone know what was in the box when the 1997 Submariner was shipped? As it was an ebay return, absolutely. However, when you take into consideration all the shadyness which occurred later on with the same person and his aquintances you have to assume that some sort of organized deception may have occurred. I guess I will never know.


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## demof1

Shiny-Lights said:


> that is unbelievable! I would never conduct any businesses with them every again.... and report that chat screenshot publicly so everyone would knew what kinds of person he is!


Well I have been watching these three for a few years since this occurred and gathering evidence. I know for an absolute fact they attempted the same scam on one other person I know, I have captured the conversation we had, so thats proof as he names these three very clearly. 

So the more and more you look back at my 1997 Sub disappearance the less likely it is that he was simply a parcel which went missing in transit. I havent lost a parcel before or since this incident.


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## demof1




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## demof1

As you can see, all the parties involved know each other very well.


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## Maviarab

Unbelievable. Also, wtf has this to do with the moron Archie?

Best iof luck OP...regardless of what may or may not come about.


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## demof1

Maviarab said:


> Unbelievable. Also, wtf has this to do with the moron Archie?
> 
> Best iof luck OP...regardless of what may or may not come about.


Well they must have a triad scam going on. The assessor provides fraudulent assessments of the watches, then the other two scoop them up at huge discounts.

The missing 1997 Submariner might just be a simply coincidence, but where there is smoke there is fire. One of these guys bought my watch and returned it in a very unsual way and I never saw it again.


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## demof1

There is actually a video about all this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL8FgWz1PZs&ab_channel=ARCHIELUXURY

In the video Archie refers to another deal I had and uses some choice words. However every story has two sides and that is definitely true with this actor/failed IT technician/youtuber.

I bought two Grand Seikos from a seller in Sydney, Serkan Gurnic. We had had a great transaction previously with two Seiko's via a gumtree deal. So he sells me two GS's and one of them has scratches all up and down one side of the bracelet. This was not disclosed in the listing nor did he mention it to me when we spoke. The photos also were of one side of the bracelet. Well, when it arrived and I saw this damage (which cannot be corrected by a standard polish) I was furious. I decided to simply sell it off and be done with it rather than ask to send it back. Well, this guy confronts me on Gumtree demanding to know why I am selling the watch immediately. Like he absolutely went for me. So based on this all friendship and loyalty went out the door and I returned it via a paypal dispute as the guy wouldnt accept the return. Anyhow, what does Serkan do? He whines to Archie and I end up watching this story unfold on youtube. 

All of this is only partially relative to my missing Submariner. However, I will also point out, when my watch went missing a day later someone sent me this video on youtube and I had to watch this whilst trying to stomach my lost Rolex. I have never participated in a hobby like this before, there are some highs but boy there are some lows.


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## Maviarab

demof1 said:


> There is actually a video about all this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL8FgWz1PZs&ab_channel=ARCHIELUXURY
> 
> In the video Archie refers to another deal I had and uses some choice words. However every story has two sides and that is definitely true with this actor/failed IT technician/youtuber.
> 
> I bought two Grand Seikos from a seller in Sydney, Serkan Gurnic. We had had a great transaction previously with two Seiko's via a gumtree deal. So he sells me two GS's and one of them has scratches all up and down one side of the bracelet. This was not disclosed in the listing nor did he mention it to me when we spoke. The photos also were of one side of the bracelet. Well, when it arrived and I saw this damage (which cannot be corrected by a standard polish) I was furious. I decided to simply sell it off and be done with it rather than ask to send it back. Well, this guy confronts me on Gumtree demanding to know why I am selling the watch immediately. Like he absolutely went for me. So based on this all friendship and loyalty went out the door and I returned it via a paypal dispute as the guy wouldnt accept the return. Anyhow, what does Serkan do? He whines to Archie and I end up watching this story unfold on youtube.
> 
> All of this is only partially relative to my missing Submariner. However, I will also point out, when my watch went missing a day later someone sent me this video on youtube and I had to watch this whilst trying to stomach my lost Rolex. I have never participated in a hobby like this before, there are some highs but boy there are some lows.


Dear God...I do wonder what is going through some people's heads sometimes...it's just...well, I have no words lol. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depends on your outlook), it's not just this hobby...these people exist in all hobbies and all walks of life. it would surely put me off though I admit. I have one watch for sale currently, if it doesn't sell soon I'm just going to keep the damn thing and then trade it in at a dealer for my next purchase, honestly just not worth the effort now. Thanks for the story...unreal. Take care.


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## demof1

Maviarab said:


> Dear God...I do wonder what is going through some people's heads sometimes...it's just...well, I have no words lol. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depends on your outlook), it's not just this hobby...these people exist in all hobbies and all walks of life. it would surely put me off though I admit. I have one watch for sale currently, if it doesn't sell soon I'm just going to keep the damn thing and then trade it in at a dealer for my next purchase, honestly just not worth the effort now. Thanks for the story...unreal. Take care.


All I can suggest is this, if you cannot sell the watch in person then dont do it. All my watch sales now are face to face. No more posting, no more worries.


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## demof1

Shiny-Lights said:


> wait why I can't open the link???


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## [BOBO]

You have a way of creating drama wherever you go @demof1 
Accounts being closed on forums, threads being shut down, watches being stolen, accusations of shady dealings, angry PM's, people registering accounts only to argue with you...

A dedicated video from the pontiff himself...
That's... something, I'm sure. I don't think it put your side of the story in a better light, though.

I wouldn't buy a watch from you after reading your posts here on WUS. I would hate for something to go wrong and having to deal with, well, this.


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## [BOBO]

Shiny-Lights said:


> wow whats going on?? is there more to just this post?


Just calling it as I see it.
I have no relation to anyone involved or any of the deals. I just think it's strange that these things keep happening to this guy...


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## [BOBO]

Since the OP no longer want people to find the video Archie made about him, here it is again.


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## Okapi001

How can anyone watch this annoying dude is a complete mystery to me.


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## [BOBO]

Okapi001 said:


> How can anyone watch this annoying dude is a complete mystery to me.


He's an acquired taste, that's for sure.
He mellowed out a lot over the years. The video in this thread is from 2018. Nowadays, he's not swearing and stays sober for most of his videos.

In this case, he presented a bit of a different picture of the situation than the OP did.
Well worth sitting through.


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## DonJ53

Once you spot it, you can't not look at it.


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## demof1

DonJ53 said:


> Once you spot it, you can't not look at it.


Do you mean the two all beef patties?


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## DonJ53

demof1 said:


> Do you mean the two all beef patties?


Ohhh my, there's two....now O'm flummoxed as to which one to watch.


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## demof1

DonJ53 said:


> Ohhh my, there's two....now O'm flummoxed as to which one to watch.


They are like a pair of two small bald heads. He has tried to do a comb over on each one, but the effect is they poke out like two small middle aged conjoined twins.


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## demof1




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## demof1

Followed this up again today with Capitol Transport. To this day they take zero responsibilty for the loss of this watch. Their stance is, as the watch went missing with one of their sub contractors, I need to follow it up with that company. I have done so many times, but its interesting. All I can say is be very careful who you ship your expnesive items with.


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## demof1




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## demof1




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## demof1




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## demof1




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## demof1




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