# Should I hand wind my 2824-2 Automatic?



## desmoface (Jun 27, 2008)

I just happened to be cruising the net, reading about the 2824-2 automatic movement in my new Stowa Flieger..I came upon some information that said that handwinding this movement on a regular basis can damage it? I had been winding it every morning, about 10 revolutions of the crown, not really thinking twice about it...Is this a bad thing? Does it ever need to be wound if I wear it every day? How often/much should I wind it? 

As you can tell, I'm new to automatic/mechanical watches, LOL...Thanks for any advice.

Steve


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## JarrodS (Feb 11, 2010)

No, it doesn't ever need to be wound through the crown if you wear it every day.


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## bin31z (Jan 5, 2011)

Honestly, I've heard some bad things about ETA 2824 but I wouldn't worry about it unless you do it every day. If you do, the gears might be worn out after a year or two and need to be replaced. 

I don't really feel the need to handwind, couple of reasons. Why would you want the watch to run and to accumulate wear when you are not wearing it? And when you put on the watch, shaking the watch 4-5 times and that is actually enough charge for the watch to run for 6 hours or so. Plus, if you screw and unscrew the watch to wind it, you are wearing the threads on the crown tube out more than anything.


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

@ bin31z:



> Honestly, I've heard some_* bad things about ETA 2824*_ but I wouldn't worry about it unless you do it every day. If you do, the _*gears might*_ _*be worn out after a year*_ or two and need to be replaced.


Hi,

you really don't know anything about watches, do you?! :roll:

Volker


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## desmoface (Jun 27, 2008)

Hi everyone, 

Thanks for the replies...I'm going to just go without winding for a while and see how the watch plays - As I do wear most every day, although it doesn't get much wrist time on the weekends. Thanks again for all the replies.

Steve


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## bin31z (Jan 5, 2011)

I meant...bad things about handwinding the ETA 2824. And I'm talking about winding gear, I heard it was made from a softer metal?? I don't you negative comment, this is all stuff I've heard on this forum.



brainless said:


> @ bin31z:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ...


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## desmoface (Jun 27, 2008)

Just thought I'd post an update.. Doesn't seem that there is any reason to handwind as my watch has been operating as advertised with just normal wear. 

Steve


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## smdcosta (Dec 28, 2009)

I have read that occasionally it is good to give a few turns to an auto movement not for winding purposes but to distribut lubrication? I think it was on tz faq??


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## heb (Feb 24, 2006)

Hello,
I too have heard that daily handwinding is bad. I think its because when hand winding, we tend to force an "overwind" condition, causing the end of the main spring to abrade the inside of its containment barrel. When on the wrist, the torque of the rotor is not great enough to do that abrasion; takes it to the fully wound condtion only.

If you don't wear your watch at night it will unwind a bit and 10 winds, while not necessary, probably won't hurt it either (takes about 40 wind to really force the overwind condition).

The real bottom line is: why do you do the 10 winds? It might have been necessary with watches 70+ years ago.

heb


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## desmoface (Jun 27, 2008)

Here's another update; I didn't wear the watch that much yesterday, and this morning it was about an hour behind, so it did indeed stop at some point...So, it definitely needs to be worn for the better part of the day to keep working continuously. I'll abstain from any handwinding just to be safe.

Steve


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## harrym71 (Jan 31, 2011)

Steve, 
I sent Stowa (Regine) an email about my Flieger Auto and it's accuracy.
I let her know that I hand wind it about 3-5 turns every morning before I put it on Monday-Friday (weekends it gets a rest). My issue was yesterday I checked the accuracy and it was 65seconds fast and that is since Sunday.

Here is a copy of her message, hope you do not mind.

_Dear Harry,
you don't have to wind the watch every morning, only if it stops - this should be the case on Monday mornings if you don't wear it over the week end, as it has a power reserve of 40hours only.
Of course it shouldn't be 65 sec. too fast in three days.
Just return it for regulation, but only after our annual vacation which ends on August 22nd please.
Best regards
Regine_

I will let it stop this weekend as I will be away up north at the cottage, I will wind it up Monday morning and set it, Friday I will see where it's at. Hopefully it will not need to be sent back for recalibration.


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## desmoface (Jun 27, 2008)

Hi Harry,

Thanks for sharing that information. I'm still new to mechanical watches, so this is good info for me. Mine is holding steady at about 10-11 seconds fast per day...I'm not too concerend as I'm reading that this is acceptable...I've also heard that they can slow down a bit as they "break-in," although some say there is no such thing...

I would hate to have to send it back and be without it while it gets adjusted. Let us know how it works out for you.

Steve


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi harrym,

- you wear the watch from Monday till Friday
- at night you take the watch off your wrist
- you *always* put it in the identical position on your nightstand (e.g. "face down", "on the back", "standing on the crown", etc.)
- every morning you handwind the movement by 3 to 4 turns of the crown before wearing the Flieger
- you can exclude the possibility of having set a wrong time (*one* minute) on Monday morning this week?
- what was the difference in the weeks before?

Volker ;-)


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## nathantw666 (Aug 6, 2007)

I have a Traser Classic that uses this movement. I hand wound it until it stopped about once a day. Suddenly, one day, the rotor would spin instead of the crown stopping after winding. I had to send the watch in to get fixed, which it did. So far it has worked fine since coming back.


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## harrym71 (Jan 31, 2011)

Hi Volker,

See my responses below in red



brainless said:


> Hi harrym,
> 
> - you wear the watch from Monday till Friday - YES
> - at night you take the watch off your wrist - YES
> ...


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

This is something to worry about:


> ...IT HAS *FLUCTUATED* BETWEEN +10 TO +60


I don't know what could bring on such an unsteady deviation.

You should ask the master himself: [email protected]

Volker ;-)


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## harrym71 (Jan 31, 2011)

brainless said:


> This is something to worry about:
> 
> I don't know what could bring on such an unsteady deviation.
> 
> ...


I have contacted Stowa about this.
I will give it some time and will not wind it at all even Monday morning. I will let the watch start on it's own and then set it and forget about it and see where it stands at the end of the week.

This morning I picked it up and just put it on. As of right now it is running +3 so far.

Let's see how it goes for the next week or two. It would be a shame to send it all the way back to Stowa.


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## harrym71 (Jan 31, 2011)

Just thought I would update.
Wore the watch for 7 days straight, taking it off at night to sleep, laid the watch on it's back.

As of this past Sunday it was +56seconds for the week (+8/day) not great I guess but better.

So I took the watch off at 2345 Sunday night and it stopped running at 1420 Monday afternoon (yesterday). Now that is almost 15 hours of power reserve. 
I thought these movements were good for about 40+/- hours.

Would like to hear everyones thoughts on this. As it stands I will track this for another week and see how it fairs. 
If this keeps up I will have to let Stowa know so I can make arrangements to send it back.

Very frustrating for a mechanical watch rookie considering my Seiko OM keeps better time.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

+8 is great, my GO was + 3 (admittedly another price bracket).


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## harrym71 (Jan 31, 2011)

stuffler said:


> +8 is great, my GO was + 3 (admittedly another price bracket).


Oh, good to know that +8 is great.

How about the power reserve issue...not so great?


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

harrym71 said:


> Oh, good to know that +8 is great.
> 
> How about the power reserve issue...not so great?


Well, can't comment on this. Do not now how busy your are on a Sunday, so I do not know if the watch was fully wound. If it was the PR would not be acceptable.


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## harrym71 (Jan 31, 2011)

stuffler said:


> Well, can't comment on this. Do not now how busy your are on a Sunday, so I do not know if the watch was fully wound. If it was the PR would not be acceptable.


Actually I was driving for 10 hours, so my arm was pretty much still (on a steering wheel) most of the day.
I guess I should swing my arm back and forth like I am marching


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## mab (Mar 3, 2011)

8 seconds a day is certainly within tolerance. 

You need to apply some level of common sense regarding the power reserve though. At the end of a long and active day, pop the watch down and see how long it takes to run out - this should tell you how good the power reserve is. 

If you put the watch on on Sunday morning having not worn it overnight (or longer), the watch will not be fully wound. Add to that your wrist not really moving all day and your power reserve test was flawed (though 15 hours does sound strange to me).


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## obsidian (Feb 13, 2006)

bin31z said:


> Honestly, I've heard some bad things about ETA 2824 but I wouldn't worry about it unless you do it every day. If you do, the gears might be worn out after a year or two and need to be replaced.
> 
> I don't really feel the need to handwind, couple of reasons. Why would you want the watch to run and to accumulate wear when you are not wearing it? And when you put on the watch, shaking the watch 4-5 times and that is actually enough charge for the watch to run for 6 hours or so. Plus, if you screw and unscrew the watch to wind it, you are wearing the threads on the crown tube out more than anything.


This thread on the German Forum discusses the "flaw" in the ETA 2824 hand winding system:

Damasko, shake don't wind? 

And references this thread on another forum (German translated to English here):

ETA 2824 "Handaufzug"

I say _"flaw"_ because it's not an error-- it's the way the movement was intentionally designed-- as a low priced automatic movement, it was not designed to be hand wound on a regular basis.
After reading this I stopped fully hand winding my ETA 2824's when starting them. I shake them or wind them a few times instead to just get them started and set the time. Of course this tends to affect the accuracy until the power reserve builds up since most movements tend to run exaggeratedly slow or fast when the power reserve is very low. Still better than worrying about the grinding going on when I hand wind.


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## avatar1 (Sep 15, 2008)

obsidian said:


> This thread on the German Forum discusses the "flaw" in the ETA 2824 hand winding system:


Well, that sucks big time.


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## Renisin (Jan 29, 2011)

Avatar1,

Not really, just let the rotor do the work and you will have no issues! My Stowa B-dial is performing perfectly. I wear it almost every day and it never seems to run out of juice, but when it does(because I wore my MO for a few days) I rotate the watch, moving the rotor and it starts just fine.

You hear all these stories but in the end you just don't know how these people who are having trouble with their watches are treating them. I have had my M.O. since February and just love it, it keeps great time. I just got my Flieger a month ago, it keeps close to 2-3 seconds fast per day! It is a COSC version so maybe that makes a difference. If there were real issues with the 2824-2 then why do such large companies like IWC, Omega,Breitling use them?

I think that there is no reason to panic, enjoy your watch!

Ren


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## avatar1 (Sep 15, 2008)

Will do, but I have my Airman since June and hand-wound it almost every other day, because I like to hand-wind my watches 

So there might already be damage done.


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## Renisin (Jan 29, 2011)

I know its not what you want to hear, but if you do have issues,its still under warranty! So relax and enjoy one of the best watch values out there, and one of the best looking!

Ren


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

> .......hand-wound it almost every other day, because I *like* to hand-wind my watches.


There are even Stowa watches, that *need* to be hand-wound,

Volker;-)


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## canard (Jan 21, 2011)

Picking up on that last point, can anyone explain why automatic movements came to dominate the market?

I ask this because, having owned both hand-winding and automatic watches, I find that I really prefer the former. If a person wears the same watch every day an automatic obviously would be convenient, but it seems that most people who only want one watch now gravitate towards quartz, and those who enjoy mechanical watches will have at least a few in rotation. With the hand-wound movement, the watch is wound at the same time every day and is running whenever it is wanted. Automatics almost always (for me, anyway) need to be reset, and this is more time-consuming than just winding-especially if the watch has a day or date function. Also-and this is most likely my own issue-I find the sight of a stopped watch kind of disturbing.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

canard said:


> Picking up on that last point, can anyone explain why automatic movements came to dominate the market?
> 
> I ask this because, having owned both hand-winding and automatic watches, I find that I really prefer the former. If a person wears the same watch every day an automatic obviously would be convenient, but it seems that most people who only want one watch now gravitate towards quartz, and those who enjoy mechanical watches will have at least a few in rotation. With the hand-wound movement, the watch is wound at the same time every day and is running whenever it is wanted. Automatics almost always (for me, anyway) need to be reset, and this is more time-consuming than just winding-especially if the watch has a day or date function. Also-and this is most likely my own issue-I find the sight of a stopped watch kind of disturbing.


Innovation serving ease !


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## obsidian (Feb 13, 2006)

canard said:


> Picking up on that last point, can anyone explain why automatic movements came to dominate the market?
> 
> I ask this because, having owned both hand-winding and automatic watches, I find that I really prefer the former. If a person wears the same watch every day an automatic obviously would be convenient, but it seems that most people who only want one watch now gravitate towards quartz, and those who enjoy mechanical watches will have at least a few in rotation. With the hand-wound movement, the watch is wound at the same time every day and is running whenever it is wanted. Automatics almost always (for me, anyway) need to be reset, and this is more time-consuming than just winding-especially if the watch has a day or date function. Also-and this is most likely my own issue-I find the sight of a stopped watch kind of disturbing.


As WIS, as watch collectors, we are aberrations. Most people back when automatics and hand winds were the norm (and today), only owned one watch. With only one watch that you wear every single day, automatics are a great improvement over hand winders since they will always be at close to full power reserve and never need to be hand wound.

Interestingly, I remember reading a review of an automatic watch from 1949 where the reviewer's opinion was that these new automatic movemets were too delicate, not robust enough, to be generally useful and were just a gimmick and fad that would not last.


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