# Max Bill



## tribe125

Ever since I've had a phone capable of carrying pictures, I've carried a picture of the Max Bill. There was never any urgency to buy one because they would always be available, and they would always be (relatively) affordable. There the picture stayed, while other cravings were satisfied. Noticing how the price had increased (although not unreasonably) over the years, I decided it was time to act. I haven't long opened the box, but it feels like I've known the Max Bill for a long time.










I won't give the whole Max Bill history (it's easily Googled) but here are a couple of quotes that sum it up:

_"A good design speaks loudest after decades of working well. The Max Bill is one of them; the best-designed watch you may never notice." 
_
That quote is from Ask Men - not my usual reference source, but it came up on Google.

_"The work of Max Bill was a continuous balancing act between free art and applied art, between severe, reduced forms and flowing natural ones, between philosophical thinking and practical application. Examining the subject of 'time' was a fascinating challenge for Max Bill, and one that occupied him for decades."_
_
(Designophy.com)_

The second quote strikes a chord. I tend to like Bauhaus more in theory than in practice. I once went to a Bauhaus exhibition and wandered through rooms of Bauhaus design. You could sit in the chairs, touch the surfaces, imagine a Bauhaus life in a Bauhaus house. It was wonderful, but I couldn't have lived with it - too severe, not enough of the human factor. I also once owned a well-regarded 'Bauhaus' watch. After a while, the simplicity looked one-dimensional and a little clinical.

Not with the Max Bill. As suggested by the quote, there is a balance 'between severe, reduced forms and flowing natural ones'. While Bauhaus tends to the angular, the Max Bill has curves. The dial is curved (or appears to be), the hands are curved, the plexiglass is (gloriously) curved. The lugs aren't as sharp-edged as those on some broadly similar watches. The Max Bill is tactile in a way that 'Bauhaus style' often isn't.

Strictly speaking, Max Bill wasn't 'Bauhaus'. He studied at the Dessau Bauhaus (his teachers included Kandinsky and Paul Klee), but went on to found the Ulm School of Design, which some regard as the successor to Bauhaus. He was also keen to distinguish between 'design' and 'style'. Most product designers, he thought, were 'stylists', and were thus little different from hairdressers. So the watch I've just bought isn't a hairdresser's watch...










Initially, it was the 'no numbers, black dial with date' that transfixed me. Unlike some, I liked the little white square of the date on the black circle, and I liked the small green dots against the black of the dial at '12'. In time, I came to prefer the white model with numbers and no date (027/3500.00). To my mind it's the most 'Billish' of the automatic models, and the one most redolent of the early 1960s. Plus, I get to see that delightful '4' every day, not just once a month (it's a custom Max Bill font, as far as I can determine). And since sinking gratefully into retirement, I almost rejoice in not knowing the date...

It's a fabulous and famous thing, the Max Bill, but it occupies an odd position and may be undervalued because of that. It's not made by a prestige maker, it hasn't spawned a legion of imitators, it's not an aspirational object or a status symbol, it's not sold by swanky ADs, and it won't be recognised by wine waiters. Is it a Junghans or a Max Bill? Is it a serious watch or a design exercise? When surveying the field of watches it's 'off to one side', and a lot of people prefer to look straight ahead.

Imagine if it said Jaeger-LeCoultre on the dial... but I'm glad that it doesn't. It's absolutely right that Max Bill was designing for a mass-market German company, and Junghans has been an exemplary steward of the Max Bill legacy.

There aren't too many watches with design credentials that transcend the world of watches, but it's certainly the case with the Max Bill. In fact, it might be the most notable example of all. The Max Bill has a 'just so' purity that is rare in wristwatches.










What a lovely, lovely thing. Beyond criticism, really. And you can run your thumb over that pebble of a crystal _forever_...

In the last couple of years I seem to have been ticking off the small number of watches that I've long admired, but somehow never bought. Last year there was the Damasko DA36, Omega Speedmaster and CWC RN Diver. This year, the Max Bill. I think that's probably cleared the list for now.

Maybe my wife could tolerate a Max Bill clock...


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## dhtjr

That is one of the best, if not the best, watch reviews I have read in a very long time. Succinct and beautifully written. William Zinsser would give you an A+.


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## gagnello

Love it. Watch a gorgeous watch. 

Sent from my SGP311 using Tapatalk 4


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## Nakmuay

Beautiful watch, & dhtjr said it all... one of the best reviews I've read, you've set the bar very high for the rest of us! 

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 4


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## jerseywatchman

Very nice looking watch! Does it wear larger than the 38mm case suggests, with that nearly non-existent bezel?


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## StufflerMike

Congrats Alan.


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## tribe125

Thanks, all.



jerseywatchman said:


> Does it wear larger than the 38mm case suggests, with that nearly non-existent bezel?


Yes and no. It wears exactly how I expected it to wear, but then I have been mentally living with this watch for some time, and I have had other 'near-rimless' watches. But yes, in comparison with 38mm watches with more noticeable bezels, it wears large.

I've never paid much attention to case sizes - it's primarily the dial you look at when glancing at your watch, and it's dial size that determines perceived size. You could go further really, and say that if a bezel dominates the 'at a glance view' (as I think it does on some chunky watches), then the design has failed.

My wrist, by the way is around 7.25", and the wrist-shot was taken at a distance, thereby minimising the exaggeration that is sometimes apparent in wrist-shots. On my wrist (and according to my own perceptions of what looks 'right'), the watch would have to lose a few millimetres before it started to look small.


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## somniloquist

What an excellent thread! I have have a 34mm and 38mm model under my roof and have always felt there was something very special about the Max Bills. There was a certain quality about them that I found hard to describe. They are beautiful, but very subtle. The Junghans brand is a bit below the radar too, as you rightly noted. 

I feel as though you have done a wonderful job outlining your thoughts in a way far better than I could. Thank you for doing so and I hope you enjoy that watch for many years.


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## LH2

Thanks for posting that terrific review! I'm starting to really want something from the Max Bill line. Is this a watch that has to always be in dressy mode? Or does it dress down as needed?

Is the consensus that the black dial models are more formal or actually more casual? Or are people split on this?


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## JonS1967

Great write up! Great watch. I hope you enjoy it for many years. I'm loving my Chronoscope. 









I guess it's time take a few more pics.


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## brummyjon

Great opening post. I too obsessed about this design for a long time before finally getting one (same dial, 34.5mm handwinder). Had pics on my screensaver and everything. 

I couldn't agree more about the shape of the '4'. I find it mesmerising. And the crystal is perfect. You hear people who have never handled one of these talking about the lack of sapphire being a 'deal breaker', but the beautiful sheen, and the slight distortion that the plexiglass provides is a 'deal maker' for me. 

A perfect design, perfectly executed, in my opinion.


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## tribe125

LH2 said:


> Is this a watch that has to always be in dressy mode? Or does it dress down as needed?
> 
> Is the consensus that the black dial models are more formal or actually more casual? Or are people split on this?


I might be the wrong person to respond, because I don't really acknowledge the distinction between dress watch and 'other' watch. I know what people are talking about, but too much is made of it. There are some fairly extreme sports watches that wouldn't look right wedged under a crisp shirt cuff, but most mainstream watches can be worn with anything.

I hardly ever wear anything formal, so my Max Bill will be worn with jeans and cargo trousers, short-sleeved shirts and long-sleeved shirts, sweatshirts, jumpers, jackets of all descriptions, fleeces, 'country' coats... and anything else I've forgotten.

At all times it will look simply marvellous.


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## watchma

Max Bill week this week isn't it ? lol 

Didn't realise the auto/38 had a white dial instead of the silver of the 34


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## tribe125

watchma said:


> Didn't realise the auto/38 had a white dial instead of the silver of the 34


I've seen the dial of the 38mm described as silver, white, silver-white and white-silver.
I've seen the dial of the 34mm described as silver, white, silver-white and white-silver.

;-)

I've never seen the two together in a shop, but it's been my assumption that they're the same. I _have_ seen the same model look strikingly different depending on the lighting of the photograph.


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## watchma

tribe125 said:


> I've seen the dial of the 38mm described as silver, white, silver-white and white-silver.
> I've seen the dial of the 34mm described as silver, white, silver-white and white-silver.
> 
> ;-)


Must be that ! , I'd swear the photo's above look just white - just crazy - it's really deceptive

Here's my 'what I thought was silver' 34mm I got on friday

Admittedly I've only had it a day, maybe I'll settle on what colour I really think it is in a couple of days 

















Goes off to double check other photo's of both models lol......


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## Roberto Jaksic

Congrats, Beautiful piece. 
I have it on my radar for quite some time but I'm worried about the size. 
Anything under 42mm doesn't work for me. 




Roberto


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## Outlawyer

A classic for sure. Close enough to perfect for me.


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## Outlawyer

%%%


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## tribe125

watchma said:


> maybe I'll settle on what colour I really think it is in a couple of days


White in the upper photo, silver in the lower photo.


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## watchma

tribe125 said:


> White in the upper photo, silver in the lower photo.


Not as white/cream as your original pic though! 

I've been looking at too many photo's and only have this real example to really look at

What to do...............

Buy the auto too  or a black one..

It involves buying another watch at least , which is good


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## brummyjon

tribe125 said:


> I've seen the dial of the 38mm described as silver, white, silver-white and white-silver.
> I've seen the dial of the 34mm described as silver, white, silver-white and white-silver.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> I've never seen the two together in a shop, but it's been my assumption that they're the same. I _have_ seen the same model look strikingly different depending on the lighting of the photograph.


I've seen them together, when I was deciding what size to go for. Don't recall any difference in dial colour, but I had so many Max Bills out on the counter it was unreal. Handwind, auto, chrono, 'white', black, gold, silver, number, no number, date, no date.....


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## Wahlaoeh

LH2 said:


> Thanks for posting that terrific review! I'm starting to really want something from the Max Bill line. Is this a watch that has to always be in dressy mode? Or does it dress down as needed?
> 
> Is the consensus that the black dial models are more formal or actually more casual? Or are people split on this?


I swapped my black strap for a brown one to make it less dressy and more casual for weekends.


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## Somewhere else

Here's a question or rather a series of questions: Does anyone have a 1960s catalog from Jughnas that shows Max Bill designs? I lived through the 1960s, and I don't remember a single watch that looked anything like the designs that are being presented as Max Bill's "1960s" designs for Junghans. This is the first point. The second point is that the German watch brand Dugena has out a series of watches in quartz, and has had them out for several years now--I own one--that have identical dial designs with the "Max Bill" dials. So why hasn't Junghans sued Dugena for copyright infringement if these are indeed Max Bill dials? If designed by this noted designer in the 1960s, as is said, then I believe the design registration would still hold true. For those of you who don't know Dugena, the company has been in existence since 1905, changing its name to Dugena in 1918, and during it's glory years in the 1960s before quartz, had over 2,000 sales outlets in German speaking countries. It is still in existence today and its' boss is a former director of Glashutte Original.

So, why aren't legions of German lawyers firing off cease and desist orders at Dugena? Incidentally, Dugena calls their series "Dessau" that looks exactly like "Max Bill". I asked Dugena's boss about this, and he said that these designs were produced by Bauhaus during the Dessau period and used by a number of German watch makers in the 1930s, not just Dugena. As far as he knew, anyone could use them, as the Bauhaus was shut down first by the N*zi government and then again in 1971 (for elitism) by the Communists.So basically many of their designs don't belong to anyone.

Then there is the question of Max Bill's association with Bauhaus. Max Bill was born in 1908. According to Wikipedia, he attended the Bauhaus in Dessau from 1924 to 1927. This would mean that Max Bill ran away from Swiss high school, and enrolled in the Bauhaus when he was 16 years old, which was his age in 1924. This would have made him a student of the Bauhaus from age 16 (1924) to age 19 (1927)

However, there is a bit of a problem here also. According to Wikipedia's article on Buahaus, the Bauhaus didn't move to Dessau until 1925. This is a year after it is claimed Max Bill enrolled in the Bauhaus in Dessau.

It seems to me much more accurate information on Max Bill is necessary, as well as much more accurate information on precisely what Junghans watch designs were in the 1960s. What is being presented as a "Max Bill 1960s" design is completely out of step with what all other designers were doing with watches in the 1960s and indeed looks like a design from the 1920s, at which time Max Bill was 17 years old.

Before we start erecting monuments to Max Bill's dial design, I suggest that we be sure that he was in truth the one who actually designed it during the time period that Junghans claimed that he did so. When we have another major watch brand, Dugena ( roughly comparable in price range and history) selling what is essentially the same watch, and claiming it is an old design of theirs from the 1920s, it is a question that would be interesting to see resolved. This contradiction seems to be too strong to be ignored.


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## StufflerMike

Ah, revival of your May 2013 post.
I wouldn't rely on what a Dugena boss says, the better source would be a Bauhaus museum director. The nrw museum stated that the first Max Bill clock belongs to the sculpural work of Max Bill.
In the sculptural work that Bill pursued in variations throughout almost his entire productive life, the reference to foundational principles and to possibilities of variation remained a determining quality of his creative methods - methods that were geared towards objectivity (Unendliche Schleife / Infinite Loop, 1935 - 53; Familie von fünf halben Kugeln / Family of Five Half Spheres, 1966). 
After 1944 Bill extended these methods into the realm of commercial graphic design, typography, and the design of items for everyday use. For this he developed what he called »product forms,« always following his persuasion that »the difference between everyday problems of design and artwork such as painting or sculpture is simply a gradual one, not a fundamental one« (Feststellungen, 1974 - 76). Among the products he designed were the Patria typewriter (1944), the dreibeinstuhl (literally: »three-legged chair«) produced in several variants (1949), the ....... clock produced by Junghans (1949), and the ulmer hocker - hocker für zwei sitzhöhen (literally: »ulm stool - stool for two seat heights«) which Bill designed as a multifunctional piece of furniture with Hans Gugelot in 1954 at the Hochschule für Gestaltung Ulm. He was tied to Junghans for some decades and so the ....... clock dial design advected the first Max Bill wrist watch by Junghans in 1961. The 1961 watch was a hw one.

Btw: Max Bill did not ran away from school, he was thrown out. There's a nice video on you tube with regard to this sack. So according to himself he joined the Bauhaus at the age of 18.

Why no suit? Because there was no patent or copyright.

Catalogue excerpt as of 1962, published in 2002 by a german watch magazine but you know that already.










Some more 1960s watches here: A Short Guide: The Original Max Bill Junghans Watch Design from 1962: A Short Guide: The Original Max Bill Junghans Watch Design from 1962


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## Somewhere else

If a question is a good one and goes unanswered, it deserves to be raised again. I'm not sure what Max Bill's artistic career has to do with his watch designs in 1960. Perhaps there is some relation to three legged stools. Also, I doubt that the boss of Dugena , who was formerly director of Glashutte Original is entirely ignorant of German watch history. He may actually know a thing or two. More to the point, it's Dugena that' stands to get sued if they are outrageously copying Junghans Max Bill, not you or me.

The catalogs and other links you have posted show beyond question that Junghans was producing these watches in the 1960s, and they were attributed to Max Bill. More power to them. I remember the 1960s as ghastly bouffant hairdos and massive car tail fins.

The big question is how can Dugena get away with making watches with exactly the same design and dial as Junghans Max Bill watches? Your explanation "Why no suit? Because there was no patent or copyright" doesn't make any sense. In a business as litigious as the watch business it's inconceivable that a major watch company like Junghans is not going to protect a design so important that they even name the designer , Max Bill, as an important sales point.

Speaking from my own experience with designs in the EU and Switzerland, as a broad generalization, registered design rights are good for up to 25 years, and Copyright is good for 70 years after the death of designer. In many cases, design features can be subject to copyright. It's inconceivable that a major company like Junghans did not subject the Max Bill watches to at least design registration in the 1960s. This would have been good for up to 25 years. However under current EU rules,_Graphics_ are now subject to patent protection, and an example often give is cartoons on a T shirt. The assumption is that dials fall into this rubric also.

Junghans Max Bill watches were reintroduced in 1997 or 1998. At least this is the first time I saw them at Basel. This means even if they are protected only by design rights, they are still under protection. If they are protected by patent, they are also under protection.

So how can Dugena get away with making exact copies of Max Bill watches and claiming they are Dessau designs? this is really a puzzle. By the way, they're good looking watches, but in quartz.

Is there a lawyer following this thread who can maybe supply an answer?

PS I'm going to download your Junghans catalog and send it to Dugena. I wonder what they will say?


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## JohnF

Oh my. 

Designs are copied and adapted every day f the year across the world, and if lawyers got involved in every case of copying, nothing would get done.

There's a fine line between borrowing design elements and outright copying. You seem to believe that Dugena is doing the latter and not the former, how about posting a comparison with photos instead?

If a designer recreates someone else's design with a different interpretation of the design elements, it may not be original, but it's not then a identical copy. The latter is what gets you hauled into court, the former is a design exercise that may or not be the hallmark of a good designer. Original watch designs are as rare as hen's teeth these days, and those that are original are, more often than not, in my eyes, downright ugly.

Are you also doubting the historical existence of Max Bill? Oh my...


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## CM HUNTER

Contact Junkers about their Bauhaus models that look an awful lot like Max Bill designs as well... I don't think they will care even a little. Again, if a design has no copyright/trademark attached to it, then anyone can "borrow" it. What matters is who had the vision to come up with the designs in the first place, and that's well documented. 

You can go on with this type of argument all day, because the Max Bill designs are by no means the only ones that get ripped off by other watch companies who are lacking the creative ability to come up with their own. Designers, artists, musicians, etc. have been borrowed from since the beginning of time... the great ones anyway.


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## Somewhere else

Designs are adapted every day, but not copied. There's a very distinct line. But the easiest way is for you to judge yourself. Are these "adaptations" or are these copies? You be the judge. Indeed, I would be curious to hear other opinions on whether they are an adaption of the Junghans designs or, as they seem to me, outright copies .Indeed, if someone could point out how they are different from Jughans, I would appreciate it. Here is the Dugena sites and it's on page 14 of "Premium" in the quartz section.
DUGENA Uhren

As for "doubting the historical existence of Max Bill". How silly do you make me out to be?


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## Somewhere else

I've noticed that Junkers also has at least one design that looks somewhat like Max Bill, but doesn't have good balance, in my opinion. I don't know the rest of their line very well, to be honest.

The reason it matters is that German watches were able to emerge from under the shadow of Swiss made watches due to their distinctive dials . The "Fleiger" dial may be the single largest factor in making people outside of Germany aware of German watches. The Junghans Max Bill dial shows every sign of becoming as iconic as Fleiger dials and I think its' popularity is growing daily world wide as more and more people recognize what an exceptional dial design it is. I think it will ultimately become a "reference" whenever people talk about what a German watch is.

So , I think it's odd that Dugena claims this dial as theirs. It's as though Omega suddenly started making a watch just like the Navitime, but called it the "Airtimer" and claimed that it was an old Omega design they used to make in the 1920s. 

It's strange to think that in the 1960s, and then again in 1997 or 1998 when the watch was reintroduced that no one ever got a design registration or copyright on this dial, but it seems that everyone who has replied to my posts about this thinks its the case. Maybe no one ever conceived that the watch would become as famous as it has, and figured it was a nice reproduction to sell for a few years, and then they would go on to something else and forget about it. I guess this is what seemed to have happened.


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## StufflerMike

Check the EPO and or DPMA and you will find out that the word mark Max Bill is protected by IR 684720 and the right is owned by Jakob Bill. Since there is no design protection Dugena is fully entitled to sell a Dessau, but a Max Bill is a Junghans. I am sure Dugena has checked this before launching a Bauhaus styled watch. Like all other manufacturers did calling their watches Bauhaus or Dessau which can't be protected and therefore is used by Aristo and Dugena, sort of devoid of imagination.

Don't you think you are overegging the pudding. I think you do. Problematising where no problem is.


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## Somewhere else

It's very interesting how the Max Bill design is protected. You have obviously done your internet homework and shown it effectively. Dugena, Junkers, Aristo and several others have watch designs out that are similar (sort of) to a Max Bill Junghans. Dugena , at least , claims that they are reviving an old design. Dugena design is close to Junghans, and the less said about the rest, the better.

As for overegging the pudding. No. If this were a Swiss made watch under similar circumstances, such as I imagined Omega suddenly calling a Navitimer copy an "Airtimer" and claiming it was an old design of theirs, the court rooms of Switzerland would be erupting like volcanoes. This hasn't occurred in Germany. This is an important dial design and where it came from and how matters. So you can keep your eggs to yourself.

I own a Dugena Dessau . it's a nicely made inexpensive quartz watch. Looking at their new "carree" Dessau, which looks rather like a Nomos, it seems that a once very strong brand is now trying to revive itself through knock offs. Sad.


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## watchma

As someone has already suggested/mentioned, where are the pictures of the watches you're comparing ?


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## Bidle

Also a patent won't last forever. Just like all Submariner copies. 

I still like all my 'real' Max Bill watches! BTW the Current Junghans design is more or less the same as the old design. Only bigger. The chrono was designed by an in-house designer.


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## JohnF

Somewhere else said:


> Designs are adapted every day, but not copied. There's a very distinct line. But the easiest way is for you to judge yourself. Are these "adaptations" or are these copies? You be the judge. Indeed, I would be curious to hear other opinions on whether they are an adaption of the Junghans designs or, as they seem to me, outright copies .Indeed, if someone could point out how they are different from Jughans, I would appreciate it. Here is the Dugena sites and it's on page 14 of "Premium" in the quartz section.
> DUGENA Uhren
> 
> As for "doubting the historical existence of Max Bill". How silly do you make me out to be?


You'd make a better case, no pun intended, if you had presented both designs next to each other, but that would have weakened the story, rather than strengthening it.

Three things immediately pop out on the Dugena dial design: the numbers rotate around the dial, rather than having a constant orientation; the markings for the minutes/seconds at the outside rim of the Max Bill design (#12 above) are missing entirely on the Dugena dial; the hands on the Dugena are longer, since the line markings are now at the outer edge of the dial, and the minute and seconds hands appear to be the same length, whereas the Max Bill design has differing hand lengths for all three hands, so as to immediately differentiate between them, a weakness of the Dugena design (hmmm...is that the minutes or seconds hand?). Oh, and then there's the matter of the date window. Not in the original.

Those differences right there would preclude any legal action whatsoever: it is not a copy in any way, shape or form: they are derivative, to be sure, but fail to fulfill the legal requirement for them to be a copy, which would be identical sizing, design and materials. End of story. If Junghans wanted to prevent this, they could have taken the Japanese approach and copy-written all possible derivatives of the design, i.e. delivering hundreds of slightly different designs to the copyright office in Bern to ensure comprehensive protection of their intellectual property rights.

It is Dugena's design, given the differences.

You're the one who questioned Max Bill's connection to Bauhaus. Bouffant hairdos were the 1960s, but car tail fins started in the 1940s and reached their peak in 1959...Cadillac El Dorado was the most extreme.

PS: the Dessau Karree really looks like one of my favorite Hamilton watches...


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## brummyjon

Bidle said:


> BTW the Current Junghans design is more or less the same as the old design. Only bigger. The chrono was designed by an in-house designer.


The 34,5mm handwinder is the same size, no?

It's only the auto and chrono that are bigger.

CWC - Junghans Max Bill - Seiko - Longines - Cartier


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## StufflerMike

Bidle said:


> ... The chrono was designed by an in-house designer.


That's correct. The first chrono came out in a limited edition (100 pieces each) and showcased at Baselworld in 2008 to commemorate MB's 100 birthday


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## Bidle

brummyjon said:


> The 34,5mm handwinder is the same size, no?
> 
> It's only the auto and chrono that are bigger.
> 
> CWC - Junghans Max Bill - Seiko - Longines - Cartier


Yes you are right I should've made it more clear.

I really like Max Bill and happy to own most of his watches; Movado, Omega and Jungans. Btw here is my Junghans.
I tried manny straps, but at the end I prefer the black strap.
Junghans Max Bill - a set on Flickr


Junghans Max Bill 14 by Bidle, on Flickr


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## watchma

JohnF said:


> You'd make a better case, no pun intended, if you had presented both designs next to each other, but that would have weakened the story, rather than strengthening it. .


Correct&forgive me if I've picked up either wrong model:

















> but that would have weakened the story, rather than strengthening it.


Correct 

(I'm a big fan of both brands btw - so no bias in either direction)


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## javacinno

Hi JonS1967 -

Great looking watch. How do you like the milanaise band? And how does the buckle on it work?

Thanks,
Mike.



JonS1967 said:


> Great write up! Great watch. I hope you enjoy it for many years. I'm loving my Chronoscope.
> 
> View attachment 1214431
> 
> 
> I guess it's time take a few more pics.


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## JonS1967

javacinno said:


> Hi JonS1967 -
> 
> Great looking watch. How do you like the milanaise band? And how does the buckle on it work?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike.


Thanks, Mike! I love the watch and I'm glad I ordered the Milanese bracelet. It is very comfortable and very easy to adjust.

There's a friction catch that once released allows you to move the strap to almost any position.















Then you hook the clasp on and fold over the clasp locking mechanism. 




















I'm not sure if I explained this correctly. The pictures aren't the best but I think they show the process.

Cheers,
Jon


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## phosfiend

Best review of a watch I've ever read. I studied design under two professors that attended Ulm in some capacity, so Max Bill's watches feel especially familiar. Great stuff, I will own one eventually, when I finally make up my mind on which I like best.


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## Der Amf

brummyjon said:


> Great opening post. I too obsessed about this design for a long time before finally getting one (same dial, 34.5mm handwinder). Had pics on my screensaver and everything.
> 
> I couldn't agree more about the shape of the '4'. I find it mesmerising. And the crystal is perfect. You hear people who have never handled one of these talking about the lack of sapphire being a 'deal breaker', but the beautiful sheen, and the slight distortion that the plexiglass provides is a 'deal maker' for me.
> 
> A perfect design, perfectly executed, in my opinion.


Is there a reason, say historical, for the watch having plexiglass rather than a sapphire?


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## watchma

Der Amfangreisemann said:


> Is there a reason, say historical, for the watch having plexiglass rather than a sapphire?


You've answered your own question , it's historical... the original was plexiglass.

Also a bit tough to put such a steep curve in a sapphire.


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## brummyjon

Der Amfangreisemann said:


> Is there a reason, say historical, for the watch having plexiglass rather than a sapphire?


Yes, as Watchma said. A lot of modern watches are specified with flat crystals, of course, and these to me are totAlly without charm. You have the choice of them having an anti-reflective coating, which gives them a purply 'oily' looking colour from certain angles, or no AR coating, which means that you can be blinding yourself (or others) with the reflection.

A domed sapphire solves this problem, and adds back some of the charm of a plexiglass. The problem is they are very expensive to produce, and also very expensive to replace. (They are scratch resistant but not shatter resistant).

I would not let a flat sapphire crystal stop me buying a watch that I otherwise loved, but given the choice, I would prefer to go acrylic in most instances.

CWC - Junghans Max Bill - Seiko - Longines - Cartier


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## Ric Capucho

Der Amfangreisemann said:


> Is there a reason, say historical, for the watch having plexiglass rather than a sapphire?


Nothing domes as nicely as acrylic or hesalite. Even the most domed sapphire is way flatter than a nicely domed acrylic.

A mate was showing me the domed sapphire on his IWC a few days ago (actually, a very nice Pilot Mark XV). I then showed him the *dome* on one of my vintage Chinese watches and he was stunned.

Acrylic doesn't mean cost-cutting, to me; even if it is understandably far cheaper than even a flat sapphire. It's just that certain designs need that high dome to look right. And of course back in the day all watch crystals were acrylic anyway.

Back on topic: the Max Bill watches are design icons, and we're lucky to have access to them from (German) Junghans at a fraction of the cost that even the lowliest Swiss watchmaker would have stung us for them. One day the likes of LVMH will buy the brand, and then we'll rue the day we missed out on this opportunity. Ironically, Max Bill was as Swiss as Swiss can be. There's a sculpture attributed to him a few feet off Bahnhostrasse, and hints of his legacy seemingly at every corner.

Earlier posts questioning his legacy, the provenance of his designs, and (contradictory) for/to protection of the designs from copycats are wrong at best, and unpleasantly provocative at best. Sixties were all about bouffant haircuts and large tail fins? What a way to label a decade that changed western culture irrevocably, and for the better in most cases. The rest of us are better than such comments.

Ric


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## watchma

Ric Capucho said:


> Sixties were all about bouffant haircuts


you speak for yourself  ;-)


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## StufflerMike

brummyjon said:


> ...The problem is they are very expensive to produce, and also very expensive to replace.


+1

"process" is vividly described here (by Sinn): http://www.watchbuys.com/store/pc/catalog/sapphire_crystal.pdf


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## brummyjon

stuffler said:


> +1
> 
> "process" is vividly described here (by Sinn): http://www.watchbuys.com/store/pc/catalog/sapphire_crystal.pdf


Thanks, Mike. Interesting link. You can see why it is an expensive process. Especially compared to a simple moulding.

CWC - Junghans Max Bill - Seiko - Longines - Cartier


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## Splinter Faction

Well, I'm going to take a chance of being scolded for bumping a thread that's too old, but a post caught my eye yesterday and got me going on these Max Bill watches. One thing led to another, and the search tool has kept me occupied for more hours that I would care to admit. But tribe125's essay above is beautiful, so I want to put a gold star on that. As with some other folks, I have more or less made the decision to acquire one of these watches, and then after you think you have figured things out . . . then, oops, you have to figure out numbers or indices. Which looks better? Which is more authentic or harmonious to the MB legacy? You could spend a lot of time on this. At any rate, I've read all the links in this thread, and it seems that you can make a pretty good case that the numbered version, the index version, and the black variant are all "legitimate." I have a small wrist, and my collection does not have a handwinder, so I'm going that direction, I think. The number version (pardon me for not using model numbers) has the rather odd tan strap, which I didn't like at first but have almost decided is exactly right. But the mesh looks nice, too. I'm going to ask the dealer if you can get the number dial with the mesh, but if anyone here knows the answer, please tell me. I won't ask: numbers or indexes? because I have already read persuasive arguments either way. I'll just have to decide. I'm basically just thinking out loud here, so pardon me for that, but I do extend sincere thanks to everyone who generated such helpful information throughout this discussion.


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## CM HUNTER

Yeah, the quandary between the model with markers versus the model with numerals is a popular one for sure. I ultimately decided that the design and use of the acrylic are such vintage touches, that the style of movement should be as well. So, the manual wind it is. The size of that model matches the vintage theme as well. As far as mesh versus leather... mesh won out for me. Again, just more of a vintage touch. Plus, to be used as a dressy summer time watch, leather and hot weather doesn't work. It's a very thin mesh and very appropriate to the watch.


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## Splinter Faction

^Thanks, those comments are helpful as well. I was actually a bit curious as to whether the mesh was "period correct." Btw, we appear to be neighbors. I'm at the very border of the Piedmont and the mountains, in the shadow of Table Rock, you could say.


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## CM HUNTER

Splinter Faction said:


> ^Thanks, those comments are helpful as well. I was actually a bit curious as to whether the mesh was "period correct." Btw, we appear to be neighbors. I'm at the very border of the Piedmont and the mountains, in the shadow of Table Rock, you could say.


Very cool. I'm about 35 to 40 minutes south west of Asheville.


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