# Another 300 Seamaster Project going on over at Borealis Thoughts and Opinions?



## skype88

Tonight I was surfing around online and stumbled across a Watch company called Borealis. Evidently they have a similar like project going on called the Borealis 300. Currently under development and planned release is July of 2016. I thought I would share it with you guys and try to get some feedback on it. I know very little about the company but I know they have been doing some dive watches on ebay for some time. I researched a little bit further and looked at Borealis Facebook page and checked out a few photos. I wanted to get some feedback on this and see what you guys thought about it's spec's and photos.

*IMPORTANT PRE-ORDER INFORMATION:*


*THIS WATCH IS STILL NOT IN STOCK. DEPOSIT OF 50% IS NON REFUNDABLE AND IT IS MADE IN ORDER TO CONFIRM YOUR PRE-ORDER.* 
*EXPECTED DELIVERY DATE: JULY 2016 THOUGH DELAYS MAY OCCUR* 
*EXISTING SPECIFICATIONS SUBJECT TO SLIGHT CHANGES AFTER PROTOTYPE IS MADE.* 
*CUSTOMERS THAT MADE A PURCHASE FROM OUR STORE FROM SEPTEMBER 1ST ONWARDS TILL END OF 2015 ARE ENTITLED TO A 15% DISCOUNT IF THEY USE ORDER NUMBER THEY PLACED PREVIOUSLY AT CHECKOUT OF ITEM IN THE COUPON CODE FIELD. IN CASE YOU DO NOT PLACE THE ORDER NUMBER AT COUPON FIELD WE ARE NOT ABLE TO GRANT YOU THE DISCOUNT (SO PLEASE DO NOT ASK US AFTER PLACING ORDER FOR US TO GRANT DISCOUNT FOR YOU). ORDERS ENTITLED FOR DISCOUNT ARE ORDERS FOR WATCHES, ACCESSORIES OR PRE-ORDER ITEMS.* 
The Borealis Estoril 300 Automatic Diver Watch is a diver watch manufactured by Borealis Watch Company that compliments the family of Borealis diver watches. It is powered by a Japanese Made Miyota 9015 Automatic movement.
Its design is based in classical military diver watches developed in the 1960s and built with 21st Century Technologies.
The watch features a BGW9 lumed sapphire bezel, doubled domed sapphire glass with anti reflective coating inside, 316L stainless steel case and a 20mm nato strap.
The Miyota 9015 automatic movement is manufactured by Citizen Miyota in Japan and it is an automatic movement with 24 jewels and 28800 bph.
It is a high grade slim movement designed built and manufactured with 21st Century technologies.
*Borealis Estoril 300 Automatic Diver Watch with Miyota 9015 Specifications:*


Case Size: 41.50mm x 47.00 mm 
Screwed down crown with engraved B logo 
Double Domed Sapphire Crystal with A/R coating inside 
120 clicks sapphire BGW9 lumed unidirectional bezel 
Made in Japan Citizen Miyota 9015 Automatic Movement 
Viton and Tefzel Gaskets (case back and glass) 
316L Stainless Steel Case 
Lug Width: 20.00 mm 
Water Resistance: 300 meters 
Case height: 12.50mm 
Nato Strap 
Swiss Made BGW9 Superluminova applied to dial, watch hands and bezel 
Screwed Case Back with engraved mermaid 
12 months warranty


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## lycanthropejeff

Looks like it could be a good dose of methadone to keep the monkey off one's back until Project 300 hits the streets...


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## skype88

No Joke man, if I don't get in on the Project 300----- This doesn't seem to be a very bad back up option after researching the spec's. It comes in Blue / Black.


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## lycanthropejeff

I missed the Project 300 pre-order by about 4 minutes (by my reckoning)... I'm going to follow with interest. I have a PRS-14 with a gimpy crown that hasn't scratched the itch so I'm not sure if this one will or not...


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## Thieuster

And this, gentlemen, is exactly why I think that Bill should move on: designing his own watch.

Too many other artisans come up with really nice homages. The difference between MKIIs interpretation of the Omega and this watch isn't very big. Sure it has a Miyota movement, but that's really not bad. I like the look of the bezel and it's great looking on the guy's wrist.

Back to my statement: Bill is an artist with eye for detail, who has experience rustling up suppliers that come up with amazing product. Besides that, he's up in ranks between the big players: magazines show Bill's pics, he's interviewed and in general, everybody speaks high about his persuit for perfection. Now, all he need is an amazing design and he's on the home stretch! 

Menno


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## Pentameter

well, it looks nice but pics can be deceiving. I'm very confident in the reputation Bill & MkII have built, and don't know anything about Borealis, but maybe this will be their "Kingston", so to speak. If so, good for them, but that said I don't know how long this has been in development, and it's doubtful it will have Bill's attention to detail, so again I'm happy here and confident that Bill will ultimately produce a much better & refined SM homage.


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## poisonwazthecure

I have one on order along with a Key West. 

It won't have the refinement of project 300 (to state the obvious) but you will have it by summer which unfortunately is probably long before the project 300 will be ready. Not only that, but I got in on the preorder with 15% discount so my final price will be something like 340ish.


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## BigHaole

Thieuster said:


> And this, gentlemen, is exactly why I think that Bill should move on: designing his own watch...Now, all he need is an amazing design and he's on the home stretch!


I thought the Fulcrum was Bill's own design


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## tmoris

BigHaole said:


> I thought the Fulcrum was Bill's own design


Hardly the case as even Bill called it the American Milsub IIRC


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## Arthur

The Omega Seamaster 300 has been homages by several different watch makers. Some are pretty good, others are not so good. 
I can just about guarantee that this watch quality wise will be pretty far below the quality of MKII's. Don't get me wrong, it will be OK, but when you put most of the other boutique watches in this price range alongside a MKII, the MKII wins every time. One big reason is the majority of companies are having watches assembled in China or some other country( usually not Switzerland). The watches arrive, they may or may not get a superficial once over, and then they are shipped out to the owner. Quality control is only related to big glaring problems. I had one owner of a boutique watch company tell me that it was more cost effective to repair or replace the defective watches rather than spend the time and expense to do a really comprehensive quality control check.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## timevoid

I saw this some days ago on OceanTime. And rather immediately they way the pictures are taken or the something else makes the bezel like very wide. Looks like its almost 1/3 of the watch diameter. Ofc Borealis has done there own interpretation of the classic design. But i think for the pricepoint its very afforadble. 

Im already waiting for WUS project Commander 300 and MKII Key West. But as stated in thread, this can be affordable backup plan for missing out on MKII 300 project.


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## timevoid

Thieuster said:


> And this, gentlemen, is exactly why I think that Bill should move on: designing his own watch.
> 
> Too many other artisans come up with really nice homages. The difference between MKIIs interpretation of the Omega and this watch isn't very big. Sure it has a Miyota movement, but that's really not bad. I like the look of the bezel and it's great looking on the guy's wrist.
> 
> Back to my statement: Bill is an artist with eye for detail, who has experience rustling up suppliers that come up with amazing product. Besides that, he's up in ranks between the big players: magazines show Bill's pics, he's interviewed and in general, everybody speaks high about his persuit for perfection. Now, all he need is an amazing design and he's on the home stretch!
> 
> Menno


I agree with you totally.


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## mleok

While I've definitely heard good things about the attention to detail and quality of MKII watches, I decided to get a Watchco Omega Seamaster 300 instead for not much more. I recently purchased one from Watchco for $2800 as I understand that Omega is cutting off supplies of service parts, so these are going to be increasingly hard to find, and the prices have already increased to reflect the increased scarcity.










I did order a Borealis Estoril 300 as well in blue, as it's nice to have a homage with sapphire crystal and sapphire bezel for not too much money.


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## MHe225

Your Watchco Omega Seamaster 300 looks terrific - congratulations. I have more than once contemplated that option / route but may have missed the boat. I am happy to wait for my P300, though.

Hope that you'll post a few side-by-side pics when your Borealis shows up and share your impressions / do a mini review (in-depth review is fine too)

Enjoy!


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## tmoris

does the watchco come with a luminous bezel inlay?


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## mleok

tmoris said:


> does the watchco come with a luminous bezel inlay?


Yes, it does.


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## Thieuster

> Your Watchco Omega Seamaster 300 looks terrific - congratulations. I have more than once contemplated that option / route but may have missed the boat. I am happy to wait for my P300, though.


^^^ sadly, this ^^^

Menno


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## driver1969

I had put together a comparison photo because I've read many good things about Borealis and dared to compare with my 300.









By the way my 300 is a watchco purchase and I'm very pleased. I've had it for about a year. I'm probably going to sell it in the near future and replace it with the Borealis version as I could use $3K in my pocket instead of on my wrist.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## timevoid

driver1969 said:


> I had put together a comparison photo because I've read many good things about Borealis and dared to compare with my 300.
> 
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> By the way my 300 is a watchco purchase and I'm very pleased. I've had it for about a year. I'm probably going to sell it in the near future and replace it with the Borealis version as I could use $3K in my pocket instead of on my wrist.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for the comparison picture. It show what my eye cought before in bezel dimensions. But its Borialis design.


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## Karan Kohli

Hi,Just need some opinion on this Borealis 300 watch.Is this a good watch as a daily beater?
Is it worth the $400 price tag? Anyone experience with this company please share your opinion?
Thanks


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## tmoris

Im seriously contemplating getting one. Looks very good at a fraction of the p300 tag


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## mleok

Karan Kohli said:


> Hi,Just need some opinion on this Borealis 300 watch.Is this a good watch as a daily beater?
> Is it worth the $400 price tag? Anyone experience with this company please share your opinion?
> Thanks


I think that with a domed sapphire crystal and sapphire bezel, this is a very compelling value. To put things into perspective, homages to the Fifty Fathoms, like the Helson Skindiver cost $750, and I think the build quality of the Borealis is reasonably comparable to the Helson.


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## leighton156

Just placing an order for one, looks great. Does anybody know whether the lume ia printed on top of the bezel or protected underneath? 

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk


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## watchobs

Sorry if I'm raining on some ones parade, but this previous thread should answer any question one might have on the Estoril project:

BOREALIS ESTORIL 300

In regards to the bezel! This is quoted directly from the Borealis Forum: 
· Sapphire Inlay bezel with BGW9 Lume (White, glows Blue) with short ticks under the numbers









Being that I have a couple of pieces from the Borealis Co. and I've been involved with the Estoril project from it's inception IMHO many will be pleasantly surprised by the quality to price ratio that this company delivers and the Estoril project should be no exception!


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## tmoris

I already ordered the BT version in black with date and Im very curious how it will stand up against the smp 2254.50 I have. I was thinking about getting the blue version, but I really dislike the black date window (same goes for blue omegas with black dates) and a nondate is just not versatile enough for me as the date is something I check regularly when wearing my watches..


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## leighton156

I've orderd the Estoril 300 with date as well. Love the vintage 300 so much. Does anybody think Omega would ever re-issue it with a master coaxil movement? They did with the Seamaster 300, best watch I've ever owned. 

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk


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## dwg

so what's the way to go.. 12 or big triangle? So many options.. and the blue is great too.. I'm lost.
The only thing, that puts me of is that every other watch they try to make is a disaster.


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## dwg

tmoris said:


> I already ordered the BT version in black with date and Im very curious how it will stand up against the smp 2254.50 I have. I was thinking about getting the blue version, but I really dislike the black date window (same goes for blue omegas with black dates) and a nondate is just not versatile enough for me as the date is something I check regularly when wearing my watches..


Borealis Watch Company | Diver Watches

it seems that the date is blue on the actual watch. The picture with black date may be just graphics.


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## tmoris

dwg said:


> Borealis Watch Company | Diver Watches
> 
> it seems that the date is blue on the actual watch. The picture with black date may be just graphics.


Looking at the prototype pics I do think its black..


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## dwg

It seems blue here.


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## lycanthropejeff

Anybody else check out their warranty page? I see many specific exemptions. Anybody have experience dealing with a repair from these folks?


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## mleok

dwg said:


> Borealis Watch Company | Diver Watches
> 
> it seems that the date is blue on the actual watch. The picture with black date may be just graphics.


I'm pretty sure the date wheel will be black, otherwise I would imagine they would point this out explicitly.


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## dwg

mleok said:


> I'm pretty sure the date wheel will be black, otherwise I would imagine they would point this out explicitly.


I wrote them an email to be sure.

at this picture it looks like blue








at some other pictures it looks darker, but it may just be a shade.


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## mleok

This photo suggests that it's a black date wheel. It would be too cost prohibitive to order two different types of movements to accommodate the different dial colors.


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## tmoris

dwg said:


> I wrote them an email to be sure.
> 
> at this picture it looks like blue
> View attachment 6903122
> 
> 
> at some other pictures it looks darker, but it may just be a shade.


thats black on my laptop screen


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## dwg

you were right. They just wrote me, that all date windows are black. There are more photos on their facebook - I ordered the black, as I found out, that I like it much more anyway. I'd prefer more vivid, modern crazy blue like on new pelagos and I would like the bezel to have exactly the same color as dial. 

I don't like the crown, there are 5 different (not as nice as original but not too bad) fonts used on the watch, they changed the date window, which was rounded, but it does not look too bad either to me. The nato also looks quite nice, but I wish it was black.


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## Narc'd

> The nato also looks quite nice, but I wish it was black.


If you ordered the black watch then you should be OK. The black Estorils come with a black "Bond" strap, the blue ones come with the blue "Bond".


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## dwg

Narc'd said:


> If you ordered the black watch then you should be OK. The black Estorils come with a black "Bond" strap, the blue ones come with the blue "Bond".


I meant all black. (hate bond straps


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## Narc'd

> I meant all black. (hate bond straps


At least you're in a better place than me - I have one on order but not only do I dislike stripey Bond straps, I also dislike natos!


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## Yao

What I can say about the Borealis watch is that this is the reason why we started Mk II in the first place. When I first started collecting I found a lot of inexpensive homage watches that looked great online but after seeing them in person I found them lacking. Essentially, the Project 300, is designed to be a good watch that is meant to reference the SM 300 and not the least expensive substitute. To give you an example we couldn't even sell the parts, un-assembled for the same price as the Borealis watch and do anything but lose a lot of money. The 300, as with all of our watches, is priced based on the cost and not on how much we think people were willing to pay. If we could have done the Project 300 for a price under $1k we would have.

That being said I wish Borealis luck with their version. In the end I believe our watches serve two different groups of customers.

Footnotes:
* There are still plenty of spots available for the Project 300. Only the Plankowner slots are full, which is less than 25% of the production. The infographic here should be helpful.
* We haven't taken any deposits for the Stingray II yet. The infographic on this page should be helpful.
* The reason we haven't been more active in opening up ordering for the slots is that we wanted to shorten the time between deposits and actual production. This was based on customer's input in the past. 
* Sorry I am not posting news directly here. It tends to get lost. All of the news is posted on our main site so that people can always find the info. A big thanks to those that have been cross posting the info here!

Okay...sorry to post and run but much work to do!


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## Thieuster

That's a very firm and clear view on the Borealis Project. I really like it that you come forward and that you're willing to share your thoughts on this and 'artisan' watch making in general! Thanks Bill!

Menno


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## jinikari01

lycanthropejeff said:


> Anybody else check out their warranty page? I see many specific exemptions. Anybody have experience dealing with a repair from these folks?


Hi I have nothing but good experience with Maria at Boralis. I had a minor bracelet issue on my Borealis Seahawk and Maria was on top of things and sent replacement pieces asap free of charge and no shipping cost. So I would not worry about their warranty policies if its under 1 year.

I currently own 2 watches from Borealis (seahawk and sea dragon) and the 3rd one will be..... Estorlis 300.
I'm so excited and cannot wait to receive this baby.

All in all I've got nothing but love for this company and Maria, she asks for input and our thoughts on her new projects and she listens and considers few value added suggestions into her project/s. This form of business is nothing new but by communicating and applying customer input really adds a nice touch to our personal needs as well as our personal wants when it comes to buying our new toys.


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## Thieuster

Very nice of the Borealis people, I am sure. But then again: it's been done - up to now by Bill for at least 5 yrs now. That's why he has a bunch of dedicated followers. The design of the watch and the more or less interactive watch design motivates both Bill and the potential buyers to leapfrog forward in watch design.

Again, I think that Bill should introduce a new, non-homage watch. And with the same level of input, I'm sure he can produce something amazing.

Menno


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## lycanthropejeff

That's great to hear as I placed my pre-order on Wednesday... It will be a nice mid-summer treat!



jinikari01 said:


> Hi I have nothing but good experience with Maria at Boralis. I had a minor bracelet issue on my Borealis Seahawk and Maria was on top of things and sent replacement pieces asap free of charge and no shipping cost. So I would not worry about their warranty policies if its under 1 year.
> 
> I currently own 2 watches from Borealis (seahawk and sea dragon) and the 3rd one will be..... Estorlis 300.
> I'm so excited and cannot wait to receive this baby.
> 
> All in all I've got nothing but love for this company and Maria, she asks for input and our thoughts on her new projects and she listens and considers few value added suggestions into her project/s. This form of business is nothing new but by communicating and applying customer input really adds a nice touch to our personal needs as well as our personal wants when it comes to buying our new toys.


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## dwg

Narc'd said:


> At least you're in a better place than me - I have one on order but not only do I dislike stripey Bond straps, I also dislike natos!


I'll get a simple rubber strap for this one as it will go under water. MkII actually has a great looking 20mm rubber, but it has been sold out for a while. Hirsch pure looks decent too.

Hopefully it will fit. The rubber straps tend to be quite thick and the lugs are very short on estoril.


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## gman54

I've got one of the Borealis projet SM300 on order... for less than $400 I had to check it out. I'll end up using it for diving... or as a paper weight.


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## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: Borealis Watches and Prometheus are both owned by Cortion, Lda. It is a company in Portugal. There seems to be a harmonius and complimentary relationship between Prometheus and Borealis.

I have three Prometheus watches, and all run very well. Two have the 9015 movements, and they both seem to be reliable, run well, have great reserve, and keep time well. The features and design elements of the Prometheus watches have advanced in appeal over time. To me (anyway) they are a good value considering the price paid. For the price paid, they bring a high value, appealing design elements, and good features. There have been some minor quality issues with all of mine, but Carlos at Prometheus has been very quick to respond, and has quickly addressed all of my concerns in a positive way, and that reinforces my good exerience with his company. It seems to me that Prometheus is 'learning' how to improve quality as it gains experience.

Now, that being said, I don't think that Prometheus and MKII as companies, or the products they offer, can be strictly and directly compared. While both may be considered to be 'boutique' watchmakers, I beleive that MKII brings much higher quality, more stringent design standards, and much more discerning, and finer-focused, attention to detail when it comes to the design, selection of components, production, and especially assembly of the final product. The two companies occupy two very different and widely-separated niches in the boutique watch ecosystem (if you will).

:think: *MKII* is much higher quality -- Maybe that is what happens when you have someone (like Bill Yao) inspecting and evaluating each watch through a loupe before it goes into a shipping box and out the door.

--- Just my opinion ---


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## rtl

gman54 said:


> I've got one of the Borealis projet SM300 on order... for less than $400 I had to check it out. I'll end up using it for diving... or as a paper weight.


Haha that's a rather expensive paper weight..


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## watchfan2

Great bang for the $$$$ with a Borealis


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## Arthur

:think: *MKII* is much higher quality -- Maybe that is what happens when you have someone (like Bill Yao) inspecting and evaluating each watch through a loupe before it goes into a shipping box and out the door.

--- Just my opinion ---[/QUOTE]

I believe you are absolutely right, and to me that is what separates MKII from the rest of the pack, that attention to detail. One factor that may well play a role in this is the fact that while Bill is a businessman, he is also a watchmaker. I would bet that most of the folks who operate other small watch companies are guys who had a dream, a little seed money and the desire to produce watches. They probably aren't watchmakers. Because they are businessmen first and watch manufacturers second, they are not necessarily obsessed with a watchmakers attention to detail. 
Several years ago, I had and interesting conversation with the owner of another of the boutique watch brands. Super nice guy, very service oriented, but his business model was completely different from MKII. In fact he told me that while he admired Bill and had a great deal of respect for him and his watches, it would drive him crazy to have to sit at a bench all day, examining movements, and checking every little detail before shipping watches to their new owners. His philosophy was based on a small percentage of new watches would have problems, and he would rather fix them after the fact. He told me that every watch was examined, wound, set and if it ran,wound, set properly, it was shipped. Basically, he was putting his faith in the Swiss company that assembled the watches. By and large, his watches were good, and I don't believe he had many that went out with problems, but I'm sure there were. In fact I had to return one right out the box because the bezel was "frozen" and would not turn. They were very good about everything and fixed it properly and promptly, but it was frustrating to have to return a brand new watch for repairs. With MKII, a watch might develop a problem, but I seriously doubt that one would ever get out of Bill's shop with a defect like that.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Chromejob

The axiom, "Buy the seller, not the watch," applies to the new product of boutique makers. If you buy an homage watch from a company that is relying on the supplier for most of the QC, and the seller's value add is the design, fulfillment, and after-sale customer service, then ... fine. So long as those three are top-notch, the watch may be faulty, but you've bought from a reliable company. If not, then you've bought a product with an inherent, if small, risk. Buying from a maker who is examining, QCing, testing, tweaking, and perfecting each product as well as the design, fulfillment, and service, then you've got some strong assurance of quality and value.

Yada yada, we've all said this before. It bears repeating when news of a "competing homage watch" comes out that's similar to an ongoing Mk II project. Those of us who've bought from Bill know this; those who are new to the brand and considering their first Mk II may need to be reminded of it. (Particularly those in the "why the long wait" and "why do you pay deposits so far in advance" camp.)


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## Watches503

I absolutely love this project. I would be all over it if it was a bit bigger but I know this size is in the sweet spot of most people. 
Looks absolutely stunning. I look forward to seeing them arrive, there will be lots of happy customers.

Really loving my Batial, which is as small as I can go with my 8.25+ inch wrist or I would've ordered that Estoril in a heartbeat.










Definitely worth a lot more than asking compared to what else is out there. Excellent quality and finish. Great lume too.










I also preordered 2 Seafarers that I'm super pumped about.


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## skype88

I just ordered Big T w/ Date-- They have a 15% off sale going on right now which gives you about $31 dollars off the $199 Deposit----
I emailed them about the projected finish date, she said they are leaning on July but depending on how things go they could be ready
to ship come June--- 

Never had a watch from this company before- But at this low of a price point with these spec's its not a bad option. NOW if I could 
just get MKII To re-release the Paradive!

Please Mr Bill Yao - For my Birthday this summer, could you please maybe do a limited re-release of the MKII Paradive!
That would make 2016 a beautiful year!

Thanks
Alex


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## bigchelis

Watches503 said:


> I absolutely love this project. I would be all over it if it was a bit bigger but I know this size is in the sweet spot of most people.
> Looks absolutely stunning. I look forward to seeing them arrive, there will be lots of happy customers.
> 
> Really loving my Batial, which is as small as I can go with my 8.25+ inch wrist or I would've ordered that Estoril in a heartbeat.
> 
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> Definitely worth a lot more than asking compared to what else is out there. Excellent quality and finish. Great lume too.
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> I also preordered 2 Seafarers that I'm super pumped about.


among the most impressive lume I have seen


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## moony_quad

watchfan2 said:


> Great bang for the $$$$ with a Borealis


Wish I had made the leap with the Estoril.............I got the Orthos Commander 300, but pretty sure I will flip it....


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## lycanthropejeff

Here's a great review (I did not write it)

https://www.watchuseek.com/f67/borealis-estoril-300-%96-magnificent-timepiece-review-3322234.html

Mine came in today. It's a very solid watch. Great lines, excellent fit and finish. I'll try to get some pics this evening...


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## Watches503

How many different preorder projects of MKII watches have not been fulfilled ? 

I saw one that has a few years in the making, while a "preassembled" pilot was just released.


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## Chromejob

Watches503 said:


> How many different preorder projects of MKII watches have not been fulfilled ?
> 
> I saw one that has a few years in the making, while a "preassembled" pilot was just released.


I think you are starting from a misconception. So far as I know, Mk II has NEVER failed to fulfill a special forum project. And be sure, these are not simple "preorder" projects, but custom projects with forum plank members contributing to design decisions. They often take a long time to complete while the watchmaker is still producing production models for open sale.


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## Watches503

Thanks for your reply. Just doing some homework for the future purchases and that day I saw some preorders from 2012 that weren't even being produced yet so I asked. No watch is worth paying and waiting 4-5yrs for, to me. But I'm sure others might disagree.


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## Aceldama

Watches503 said:


> Thanks for your reply. Just doing some homework for the future purchases and that day I saw some preorders from 2012 that weren't even being produced yet so I asked. No watch is worth paying and waiting 4-5yrs for, to me. But I'm sure others might disagree.


MKII is not a company for everyone. The KeyWest will be my first new MKII since I was late to the game. There are plenty on the used market if you are so inclined. I see you're in Oakdale. I'm up in Tracy. If you ever want to take a look at a MKII "in the metal", let me know!

Jose


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## poisonwazthecure

Find a true gilt watch built to modern standards. That justifies the wait for me. I have a key west on order.


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## Watches503

Aceldama said:


> MKII is not a company for everyone. The KeyWest will be my first new MKII since I was late to the game. There are plenty on the used market if you are so inclined. I see you're in Oakdale. I'm up in Tracy. If you ever want to take a look at a MKII "in the metal", let me know!
> 
> Jose


Let's do it ! Thank you. I'd love to hold one. We'll meet soon. Thanks for the offer, that sounds awesome.

Luis


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## tmoris

My borealis on mesh


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## Sean779

In both this, and the Commander 300, the bezel is too wide, IMO.


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## Watches503

driver1969 said:


> I had put together a comparison photo because I've read many good things about Borealis and dared to compare with my 300.
> 
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> 
> 
> By the way my 300 is a watchco purchase and I'm very pleased. I've had it for about a year. I'm probably going to sell it in the near future and replace it with the Borealis version as I could use $3K in my pocket instead of on my wrist.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Beautifully said.


----------



## tmoris

Sean779 said:


> In both this, and the Commander 300, the bezel is too wide, IMO.


Looks more like font size difference than actual physical disproportion to me


----------



## mleok

This is a photo comparison I posted on the Dive Watch subforum.



mleok said:


> As promised, this is a photo comparison of a (Watchco) Omega Seamaster 300 (on shark mesh) and the Borealis Estoril 300. Some immediate impressions, the sapphire crystal on the Estoril is noticeably less domed, the midcase appears to be thicker, and the bezel assembly is less high.


----------



## Watches503

Just gonna leave this right here.


----------



## Axelay2003

Watches503 said:


> Just gonna leave this right here.


They almost look identical. Maria at Borealis is comparatively more transparent than Yao. Maria has stated before that her cases and watch parts are fabricated in same facilities as other "higher end" micro brands. She does not reveal and is very respectful of other micro brands. I would not be surprised if Yao gets his cases from the same Chinese facility. Yes Yao can do his own quality control and assembly and if that is the case, that is the only difference between the Estoril and 300. Let's not forget the price and "wait" difference.


----------



## Sean779

Axelay2003 said:


> They almost look identical. Maria at Borealis is comparatively more transparent than Yao. Maria has stated before that her cases and watch parts are fabricated in same facilities as other "higher end" micro brands. She does not reveal and is very respectful of other micro brands. I would not be surprised if Yao gets his cases from the same Chinese facility. Yes Yao can do his own quality control and assembly and if that is the case, that is the only difference between the Estoril and 300. Let's not forget the price and "wait" difference.


Yes, they almost look identical, but there are design subtleties important to some that make them not identical. I prefer the MKII.


----------



## Watches503

Sean779 said:


> Yes, they almost look identical, but there are design subtleties important to some that make them not identical. I prefer the MKII.


I hope so, if you're willing to pay $1200 more. God bless you and more power to you. I would buy both if I could, and sell the one that is a "keeper". So Borealis is my only option.

EDIT: both black dial date options are sold out now.

But there are some other preowned MKII's that interest me. Like the one with 4 o clock crown and the Benrus homage.


----------



## Sean779

Watches503 said:


> I hope so, if you're willing to pay $1200 more. God bless you and more power to you. I would buy both if I could, and sell the one that is a "keeper". So Borealis is my only option.
> 
> EDIT: both black dial date options are sold out now.
> 
> But there are some other preowned MKII's that interest me. Like the one with 4 o clock crown and the Benrus homage.


I wasn't talking about price, and I know that's a factor. I prefer the MKII designs.


----------



## mleok

Sean779 said:


> Yes, they almost look identical, but there are design subtleties important to some that make them not identical. I prefer the MKII.


Perhaps you could help point out some of these design subtleties?


----------



## Ukal

Watches503 said:


> Just gonna leave this right here.


Spot the difference?


----------



## Sean779

mleok said:


> Perhaps you could help point out some of these design subtleties?


not easy to point out a subtlety.


----------



## Sean779

you either get it or you don't.


----------



## Watch That Sweep

There are a few differences, but they're pretty minor. 
The MKii has:
- White seconds hand
- Slightly longer, thinner hour markers
- I believe it will have a metal bracelet?
- Swiss movement.

Apart from that they're practically identical on paper.


----------



## CBM_DOC

The Vintage Sweep said:


> There are a few differences, but they're pretty minor.
> The MKii has:
> - White seconds hand
> - Slightly longer, thinner hour markers
> - I believe it will have a metal bracelet?
> - Swiss movement.
> 
> Apart from that they're practically identical on paper.


You forgot to mention the biggest difference - Bill's eagle eye for quality control that makes an MKII a joy to behold.

Dave


----------



## Watch That Sweep

CBM_DOC said:


> You forgot to mention the biggest difference - Bill's eagle eye for quality control that makes an MKII a joy to behold.
> 
> Dave


Well that is why I put "on paper"


----------



## tmoris

Ive given Maria the following feedback after receiving mine:

the dial feels a bit bland when in direct sunlight, the black is showing grayish and feels flat, lacking depth. Id also suggest using fewer font types. The date font seems as if from another watch entirely. On the other hand I think you did a great job on the bezel insert, which glows very nicely and the font is well balanced. If only Omega understood that their Seamaster line lacks luminous bezels! I would also suggest a different finish for the crown as it somehow seems detached from the rest of the case with its sandblasted finish. Again, please do not take my points as criticism, but rather as future opportunities. You can definitely be proud about your interpretation of the SM300. 


Btw its running at +1s/d after 2weeks


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: As tmoris said above... and also further mentioned above -- We are talking about *Design Subtleties* -- that term, to my mind, refers to aspects of the watch and the total combination of elements that contribute to the overall perception of the watch and whether (or not) the choices made in dimensions, sizes, materials, colors, textures and shapes and proportions all contribute to a cohesive whole thing, whose different aspects _work well_ together. (Or Not.)

Another way to say it, for me, is that "It all looks right. No particular thing looks 'out-of-place.'" Or - "It all fits together well." Or- "It is Elegant." And - "It _feels_ right."

Full Dislcosure: I am a Plankholder for *Project 300* and have specified a Bg Triangle, No-Date dial.

I am also a customer at Borealis, and have a Blue dial, Big-triangle, no-date *Estoril 300 *on order.

I appreciate tmoris' thoughts and observations and agree with them, and even though I have neither one of these in-hand, those aspects of the design are already known because of the photos that have been made available.

I think that Borealis has quite an acheivement (and one to be proud of) with the _*Estoril 300*_ - Don't misunderstand me. It is quite an acheivement to bring that watch, with those features, available at that price point.

But I also appreciate, and KNOW, and expect, that Bill Yao's attention to these subtle details, and combined with his well-known appreciation of, and attention to quality are going to produce a different, higher quality, and overall, superior product in *Project 300*.

His attention to these critical details, combined with a fine sensibility about what works, and what does not, demonstrate a certain artist's or designer's perception, that go far beyond simple product design and engineering expertise and knowledge. That is the juncture, or nexus, _where science and art meet_.

That's what MKII brings to the boutique watch eco-system, and that aspect is what many other designers don't have, will not do, or can not do.

That attention to those subtle (and not-so-subtle) details, is the difference that I am more interested in - Because MKII's designs appeal to me and my own ideas and tastes more. MKII's design, for the most part, looks better to my eye.

:think: It is an individual thing. Not 'Good' or 'Bad' or 'Right' or 'Wrong' - just appreciated to a different degree or sensibility - It is an opinion, basically. It is developed and held according to ones individual make-up and beliefs.

MKII's _Vision_ matches up better with my own perception and ideas, and also educates me and allows me to appreciate even more subtle details and relationships between those elements that I was not even aware of previously...

I plan on developing a full comparison of the two watches once I have them both, with further thoughts (and probably many photos) to further illustrate these similarities (which are based on the original inspiration) and the differences between the two watches.

I don't know if I will keep them both, afterwards. They are different, and may satisfy different needs or desires for me.

:think: We'll see.... Thanks for reading my post, ;-)

Enjoy those watches, Good People!

|>|>


----------



## Chromejob

From the photos, it appears that the Mk II has more accurate bezel insert to dial size proportions. The size of the dual numbers is better too. 

In the eye of the beholder, you either see it, or don't.


----------



## tmoris

I just wanted to get something cheap and nice enough to bang around during summer with the kids and on the mesh I think its doing well


----------



## mleok

Fair enough, while I understand why one might be willing to pay more for the attention to detail. Personally, I prefer to do so only for homage watches where the inspiration is unattainable, such as the Fulcrum which is inspired by the Rolex Milsub. For the Seamaster 300, it made more sense to me to get a Watchco Seamaster 300 for $2800, and the Borealis Estoril 300 for $350.


----------



## Darwin

Omega doesn't do lume on its diver bezels? News to my (Watchco) SM300:









If I might weigh in: I like a lot of what I see in the Borealis and can only contribute some parroting of other remarks here: the difference lies in the subtle details. Bill's OCD about detail and finish mean that the Project 300 will be first rate (after having owned 5 or 6 MKII watches I am very confident in this). The details that jump out from the photos - and not having handled either watch in real life - are these:

1. As tmoris notes: the crown on the Estoril looks detached from the watch, somehow. In fairness, we've yet to see what Bill has in store as he hasn't finalized the crown on his version. The one visible in photos of the prototype(s) is a generic crown he used so that he could test the watch.

2. The fonts on the dial on the Estoril are quite busy and in some cases too large. Here's where attention to detail comes in. Bill probably spent more time picking the fonts for the arabic numerals (let alone all of the other details) on the dial than Borealis did on the entire watch. Not a slam against Borealis, just an observation. The fonts on the Project 300, while not exactly true to the original Omega dial (the 6 and the 9 are closed, not open as were the originals, for example - Bill didn't want to risk copyright infringement, as I understand it), suit the overall style of the watch.

3. The font used for "Borealis" on the Estoril is too big and blocky in my opinion (NB WIS-ness is nothing if not HIGHLY subjective. In this case, it's all about me. Just how I like it. "SWMBO" never seems to get that...) while that used for "Estoril" is a rather TOO cursive and fancy for an homage to a tool watch.

4. The font used by Borealis on the bezel insert is rather heavy compared to the original.

5. One thing that still bothers me about Bill's version is the number "10" on the bezel insert. The space between the 1 and the 0 is wider than I would like. I've no doubt that there is a good reason for this: either it references/pays homage to a different version of the bezel than I have on mine (but one that I have not seen anywhere in pictures, either) or it's a matter of Bill obsession over proportion and spacing... Dan Fock did this with the latest version of his Submariner homage: his only has three minute marks on the bezel between 5 and 10 and 10 and 15.

None of the above is meant to detract from the Borealis. As OCM notes it's a real achievement to produce it in such a short amount of time and at such a great price point. However, Borealis' achievement shouldn't detract from what Bill has done either: we don't criticize Omega for producing the Planet Ocean when the Lew&Huey Orthos is available for about 10% the price! or BMW for producing the 3 series when the Honda Civic is available for a fraction of the cost...


----------



## tmoris

Omega doesnt do luminous bezel inserts (watchco != omega). Id much like omega introducing lumi bezels in their sm300 lineup..


----------



## Aceldama

tmoris said:


> Omega doesnt do luminous bezel inserts (watchco != omega). Id much like omega introducing lumi bezels in their sm300 lineup..


Well, if we want to get technical: Omega DID do lumed bezel inserts on the original SM300. What am I missing here? Do you mean they don't now with the new versions?


----------



## Darwin

tmoris said:


> Omega doesnt do luminous bezel inserts (watchco != omega). Id much like omega introducing lumi bezels in their sm300 lineup..


Indeed, but Watchco assembles their watches using OEM service parts (case, bezel, bezel insert, dial, and handset) and drops in a movement from a donor watch, so clearly Omega does or did produce the bezel insert for the SM300 with lume...

Hadn't realized that they dropped this in subequent versions of the Seamaster. My circa 1981 quartz version had a lumed bezel as well (not my photo - I can't find any of that watch and I've since moved it on to a new home):


----------



## tmoris

Aceldama said:


> Well, if we want to get technical: Omega DID do lumed bezel inserts on the original SM300. What am I missing here? Do you mean they don't now with the new versions?
> View attachment 8633834


Yes, I meant their current lineup, which I like, but miss the lume.

Thank you for a great vintage ad pic, always enjoy reading one of these!


----------



## Pentameter

Axelay2003 said:


> They almost look identical. Maria at Borealis is comparatively more transparent than Yao. Maria has stated before that her cases and watch parts are fabricated in same facilities as other "higher end" micro brands. She does not reveal and is very respectful of other micro brands. I would not be surprised if Yao gets his cases from the same Chinese facility. Yes Yao can do his own quality control and assembly and if that is the case, that is the only difference between the Estoril and 300.


I beg your pardon but you're wrong. See here: PoP - Watch Hands, Pt. 1

The movement isn't the same either, just to mention something obvious that I know of off hand.

I don't know why people feel the need to make statements like you just did when you can't possibly know all the differences contained in each piece. Even so, there are plenty of differences that we DO know of if you take the time to look.

I also disagree that they "almost look identical" - maybe to your eyes, but not to mine.

Furthermore, maybe they're more transparent about where they source components from, but how could you possibly be more transparent or "in the loop" than with a forum project design where YOU are an active participant and have a hand in making all the decisions, like the p. 300? Have you gone back and read the early threads where people were debating these decisions, casting votes and helping shape the final product? I'm sorry but I think you're not really presenting the full picture here.


----------



## mleok

Darwin said:


> One thing that still bothers me about Bill's version is the number "10" on the bezel insert. The space between the 1 and the 0 is wider than I would like. I've no doubt that there is a good reason for this: either it references/pays homage to a different version of the bezel than I have on mine (but one that I have not seen anywhere in pictures, either) or it's a matter of Bill obsession over proportion and spacing... Dan Fock did this with the latest version of his Submariner homage: his only has three minute marks on the bezel between 5 and 10 and 10 and 15.


It sounds like for some people, Bill can do no wrong design wise. One has to wonder what would happen in a blind taste test.


----------



## calwatchguy

mleok said:


> Fair enough, while I understand why one might be willing to pay more for the attention to detail. Personally, I prefer to do so only for homage watches where the inspiration is unattainable, such as the Fulcrum which is inspired by the Rolex Milsub. For the Seamaster 300, it made more sense to me to get a Watchco Seamaster 300 for $2800, and the Borealis Estoril 300 for $350.


I had the same feeling. I own a watchco SM300 and will skip the project 300. I am a huge MK II fan, but I'm going to sit this one out. Not a huge fan of the Borealis, but I definitely appreciate the quality to price ratio there based on the pictures and specs.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## calwatchguy

mleok said:


> It sounds like for some people, Bill can do no wrong design wise. One has to wonder what would happen in a blind taste test.


This is the MK II forum...full of people who don't have to guess about the quality of what he delivers. They would for sure know the MKII version since they helped create it via the design threads. I think that's part of the fun (and unfortunately the wait) of a MKII. As pointed out above there are a handful of small things off about the Borealis which is fine. It's a totally different animal in terms of price. The devil is in the details and that factors into the price. I am a bit surprised that the MKII didn't use the open numerals to be honest. Rambling rant over.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Pentameter

Honestly the text on the Estoril makes it a non-starter for me. I think apart from that it looks fine, and if they would have kept the dial completely sterile it would have been a big improvement, and I may have even went out for one myself.


----------



## Aceldama

The closed 6 and 9 killed the Project 300 for me. I own 5 MKii watches with a KW on order. The Project 300 looks like it will be a great watch, but just not for me.

Made this choice easy...


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## Darwin

mleok said:


> It sounds like for some people, Bill can do no wrong design wise. One has to wonder what would happen in a blind taste test.


Not sure how you get from "One thing that still bothers me is..." to I think "Bill can do no wrong design wise". I've clearly stated that it does not work for me and speculate as to why Bill made this design choice; looking for a reason behind a decision I don't agree with doesn't mean that I don't think he can do no wrong design wise. In fact, it's a miss in my books.


----------



## mleok

Darwin said:


> Not sure how you get from "One thing that still bothers me is..." to I think "Bill can do no wrong design wise". I've clearly stated that it does not work for me and speculate as to why Bill made this design choice; looking for a reason behind a decision I don't agree with doesn't mean that I don't think he can do no wrong design wise. In fact, it's a miss in my books.


I just find it amusing that you felt the need to make excuses for his design misses, this is what I meant by my original statement. Maybe he just made a mistake, and it was a lapse in care or judgement, as opposed to a conscious design decision that you simply disagree with.


----------



## Chromejob

mleok said:


> I just find it amusing that you felt the need to make excuses for his design misses, this is what I meant by my original statement. Maybe he just made a mistake, and it was a lapse in care or judgement, as opposed to a conscious design decision that you simply disagree with.


*I just find it amusing* that as someone who doesn't ordinarily post in the Mk II forum (only 10 posts, in this single thread), and doesn't appear to have any Mk IIs in your collection (based on your sigline), you feel the need to make derogatory, sideways comments about the forum brand sponsor. Maybe you just made a mistake and thought you were in an Omega or Borealis forum, or it's a lapse in care or judgement,... as opposed to a conscious decision. :think:


----------



## calwatchguy

More specifically, not much done by MKII is a mistake. We all may not agree with everything, but I can say having owned one and spent an embarrassing amount of time reading this forum, that his specificity on design choices and attention to detail is why I would rather own one MK II than five Borealis watches. Hence the scarcity and price of his watches. Personally, I've now exhausted my energy on this topic. Moving on. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mleok

calwatchguy said:


> More specifically, not much done by MKII is a mistake. We all may not agree with everything, but I can say having owned one and spent an embarrassing amount of time reading this forum, that his specificity on design choices and attention to detail is why I would rather own one MK II than five Borealis watches. Hence the scarcity and price of his watches. Personally, I've now exhausted my energy on this topic. Moving on.


There is a difference between "not much" and "nothing". I'm curious at to where the spacing on the 10 on the bezel was a topic of discussion on the design threads. In any case, it's clear that MK II has its diehard fans.


----------



## mleok

Chromejob said:


> *I just find it amusing* that as someone who doesn't ordinarily post in the Mk II forum (only 10 posts, in this single thread), and doesn't appear to have any Mk IIs in your collection (based on your sigline), you feel the need to make derogatory, sideways comments about the forum brand sponsor. Maybe you just made a mistake and thought you were in an Omega or Borealis forum, or it's a lapse in care or judgement,... as opposed to a conscious decision. :think:


I don't claim to be infallible, and I don't worship your design messiah. Enjoy your watches.


----------



## heebs

mleok said:


> There is a difference between "not much" and "nothing". I'm curious at to where the spacing on the 10 on the bezel was a topic of discussion on the design threads. In any case, it's clear that MK II has its diehard fans.





mleok said:


> I don't claim to be infallible, and I don't worship your design messiah. Enjoy your watches.


Sir, it appears that you really would like to have the last word in this discussion. Speaking as a (very) long time fan of MkII watches and Bill's work, I think the kind and civil folks here will continue to have pride in these watches and enjoy then for whatever personal reasons motivate each of us. You won't do anything to dissuade us.

You're not very likely to have THE last word in this or any other MkII discussion, but please feel free to make the above YOUR last words here.


----------



## Chromejob

This reminds me of only two of the many design discussions for the Key West. I contributed to discussions about the 24h hand and there was much macro photo scrutiny of the relationship of the 6542 24h hand to the other hands and dial chapter rings seen on collectable versions. Then, there was Bill's proposal pics of various fonts for the bezel insert, the spacing, the sizing ... I could barely tell the difference, but he could. Then the comparison of Pantone color shades for the bezel insert; again, I could barely tell the difference. 

I don't follow the P300 design thread much, but I suspect it's not different. I DO recall a lengthy discussion of the font for the lower dial marking. Oversight, or mistakes? I really doubt it. Time spent reading either design thread will make it quite clear how very meticulous the forum members and Mr. Yao have been in specifications. Newbies to the brand can make assumptions, but regular patrons of this forum have a different perspective.


----------



## Sean779

Chromejob said:


> This reminds me of only two of the many design discussions for the Key West. I contributed to discussions about the 24h hand and there was much macro photo scrutiny of the relationship of the 6542 24h hand to the other hands and dial chapter rings seen on collectable versions. Then, there was Bill's proposal pics of various fonts for the bezel insert, the spacing, the sizing ... I could barely tell the difference, but he could. Then the comparison of Pantone color shades for the bezel insert; again, I could barely tell the difference.
> 
> I don't follow the P300 design thread much, but I suspect it's not different. I DO recall a lengthy discussion of the font for the lower dial marking. Oversight, or mistakes? I really doubt it. Time spent reading either design thread will make it quite clear how very meticulous the forum members and Mr. Yao have been in specifications. Newbies to the brand can make assumptions, but regular patrons of this forum have a different perspective.


If you're attuned or afflicted to design subtleties then MKII is worth the expense and wait. Two of the best watch designers IMO are Yao and Kobold. Both get ragged on.


----------



## cpotters

ForWhatItsWorth...I am a Sumo-Class fan of Bill Yao's work, and own my fair share of his iconic watches.

I also love the original designs for the Omega 300SM, and it's one of the few vintage dive watches I've not ever owned.

I'm not in on Project 300, as I doubled up on my Key West allotment, but I've seen and held the 300 prototype at the NYC GTG, and - trust me - it's a honey.

Having said that, I've got nothing but snaps for the Borialis. It's an inexpensive way to scratch that itch for such an iconic design. It's not perfect, but it is "close enough for government work". They should be proud to offer that watch at that price point, and if someone gave me one, I'd be delighted (hint?).

Having said that, I hope that - as Bill extends his "Ready to Wear" line beyond the Hawkinge to include a few more classics - one might resemble an early Omega Diver (my favorite would be the original SM300 from the late 50s, with the raised pip on the bezel). Also the only watch I'd ever consider for a 3-6-9-12 dial.









Affordable high quality watches are a huge niche that's waiting to be filled.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: "It punches above its weight class...."









Just received today....









C'mon *Project 300*......


----------



## OkiFrog

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: "It punches above its weight class...."
> 
> View attachment 8657482
> 
> 
> Just received today....
> 
> View attachment 8657490
> 
> 
> C'mon *Project 300*......


OCM, would love to hear your thoughts on this watch. It really looks great. Thank you.


----------



## Axelay2003

That looks REALLY nice and it is immediately available too! Price, availability, esthetics.....a no brainer.


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan

OkiFrog said:


> OCM, would love to hear your thoughts on this watch. It really looks great. Thank you.


 Thank You - It does *look* good Now, - But....

:think: I wonder.... How durable will this be? How serviceable is it?

How will it hold up to use through time?

My first MKII branded watch was made in 2006, and I'm not the original owner, but I see no indication that it has ever been serviced. It still runs - a bit slow.

I can be assured that if I send it in for repairs, it can be put back into good running condition. After 10 years, that's a Great Deal!

Would that be the case with the Borealis watch? Or, is it just, "a-one-time-deal?"

I know and trust MKII's reputation for excellence and proven record of durability and longevity - Quality down through time.

--- That, itself, means a lot to me ---

Food for thought, eh?

:think: _What exactly does one give up for such a lower cost....?_ :-s

----Time Will Tell ----


----------



## balzebub

Why shouldn't it be as dura
ble as any other watch? It's made of standard 316L stainless steel and sapphire crystal commonly found on a multitude of other watches. The Miyota 9015 is a tried and proven movement used by many other watch companies. In one word a product put together with industry standard parts. Short of any catastrophic failure in QC during and after assembly, these watches should run just fine for years to come just like any other mechanical watch made by any other reliable manufacturer (if not subject to abuse). A reasonable price point does not equate to a lousy product that will fail. 



Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk


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## watchobs

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Thank You - It does look good Now, - But....
> 
> :think: I wonder.... How durable will this be? How serviceable is it?
> 
> How will it hold up to use through time?
> 
> My first MKII branded watch was made in 2006, and I'm not the original owner, but I see no indication that it has ever been serviced. It still runs - a bit slow.
> 
> I can be assured that if I send it in for repairs, it can be put back into good running condition. After 10 years, that's a Great Deal!
> 
> Would that be the case with the Borealis watch? Or, is it just, "a-one-time-deal?"
> 
> I know and trust MKII's reputation for excellence and proven record of durability and longevity - Quality down through time.
> 
> --- That, itself means a lot to me ---
> 
> Food for thought, eh?
> 
> :think: _What exactly does one give up for such a lower cost....?_ :-s
> 
> ----Time Will Tell ----
> 
> Indeed and here's hoping both MKII and Borealis fans will have a generation or more of enjoyment to validate their investment into time telling! From my some what biased view (Own 4 Borealis pieces to include the Estoril) this company delivers well past it's price point by delivering a quality product that should hold up to your durability expectations! I have no doubt that the MKII's investors are going to be equally pleased with price over value they receive. From my dealings with and from what I've seen so far, the Borealis brand continue to up there own self expectations and thus they have a growing fan base. And sure as a relatively new brand they don't have the history that other more established companies/brands have (and they sure as heck don't concentrate on packaging, it's all about the timepiece ;^) but from what I've seen so far it sure looks like they are well on the way to build that history. And since I'm an advocate of pict. to help tell the story here's a few "point & shoot" pict. of my Estoril:


----------



## mleok

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Thank You - It does *look* good Now, - But....
> 
> :think: I wonder.... How durable will this be? How serviceable is it?
> 
> How will it hold up to use through time?
> 
> My first MKII branded watch was made in 2006, and I'm not the original owner, but I see no indication that it has ever been serviced. It still runs - a bit slow.
> 
> I can be assured that if I send it in for repairs, it can be put back into good running condition. After 10 years, that's a Great Deal!
> 
> Would that be the case with the Borealis watch? Or, is it just, "a-one-time-deal?"
> 
> I know and trust MKII's reputation for excellence and proven record of durability and longevity - Quality down through time.
> 
> --- That, itself, means a lot to me ---
> 
> Food for thought, eh?
> 
> :think: _What exactly does one give up for such a lower cost....?_ :-s
> 
> ----Time Will Tell ----


In reading this, you would think Bill Yao creates his movements from scratch, as opposed to ordering it from ETA and having it cased into his creations.

It's great that your MKII still runs even without being serviced, and you have confidence that it'll be made right with a service, but you should give credit where it's due. In this case, it should be to ETA, who made the movement in your MKII.


----------



## Watches503

mleok said:


> In reading this, you would think Bill Yao creates his movements from scratch, as opposed to ordering it from ETA and having it cased into his creations.
> 
> It's great that your MKII still runs even without being serviced, and you have confidence that it'll be made right with a service, but you should give credit where it's due. In this case, it should be to ETA, who made the movement in your MKII.


Great point...

Unless... Bill Yao carefully dissembles and reassembles each movement before it goes on each watch, perhaps ? His attention to detail is second to none.


----------



## mleok

Watches503 said:


> Great point...
> 
> Unless... Bill Yao carefully dissembles and reassembles each movement before it goes on each watch, perhaps ? His attention to detail is second to none.


Does Bill Yao actually service every movement himself before installing it? If so, does he mention this explicitly anywhere?


----------



## Darwin

I suspect he's talking (writing) more about the long term stability of the company itself and the future availability of replacement case parts (including dial, handset, date wheel - if applicable, bezel, and bezel insert), and having the manufacturer of the watch around to service it than he is about simply having the movement serviced.



balzebub said:


> Why shouldn't it be as durable as any other watch? It's made of standard 316L stainless steel and sapphire crystal commonly found on a multitude of other watches. The Miyota 9015 is a tried and proven movement used by many other watch companies. In one word a product put together with industry standard parts. Short of any catastrophic failure in QC during and after assembly, these watches should run just fine for years to come just like any other mechanical watch made by any other reliable manufacturer (if not subject to abuse). A reasonable price point does not equate to a lousy product that will fail.
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI NXT-L29 using Tapatalk


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## mleok

Darwin said:


> I suspect he's talking (writing) more about the long term stability of the company itself and the future availability of replacement case parts (including dial, handset, date wheel - if applicable, bezel, and bezel insert), and having the manufacturer of the watch around to service it than he is about simply having the movement serviced.


If the responsiveness with regards to warranty claims and replacement policies of Borealis vs. MKII is any indication, I would be more concerned about the long term parts availability for MKII.


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## Darwin

mleok said:


> If the responsiveness with regards to warranty claims and replacement policies of Borealis vs. MKII is any indication, I would be more concerned about the long term parts availability for MKII.


Do you have any experience with MKII and warranty claims? I do not, but note that Omegacosmicman has and reports satisfaction with the service and process. What are you referencing here?

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk


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## OmegaCosmicMan

Darwin said:


> I suspect he's talking (writing) more about the long term stability of the company itself and the future availability of replacement case parts (including dial, handset, date wheel - if applicable, bezel, and bezel insert), and having the manufacturer of the watch around to service it than he is about simply having the movement serviced.


 *Exactly*. Thanks, Darwin.

In my experience, with a watch (that I had) that failed, the primary failure mode was not that the movement 'just quit' - Invariably, a primary failure mode was of an external part (outside of the movement) such as a crystal seal, a broken or leaky crown and stem, or a broken or damaged (cracked) crystal. The primary failure induced or caused a secondary failure when the movement integrity and function was compromised by the entry of water.

When the stem pulls out - well that's obvious. That can happen because of carelessness when pulling the stem out to set the time or wind, or old age and wear to those parts in the movement that retain the 'key' (for lack of a better word). With one of my old Rolexes, after the stem pulled out when trying to set, that meant a trip to the watchmaker and a fair amount of $$$ for a full service and new parts, including a new crown, crown tube and stem, among some others. That watch is 45 years old, and it still managed to test down to 10m WR (It had a damaged crystal seat in a previous life). And it runs excellently still keeping COSC time.

As far as 'the Affordables' and the new companies that are bringing them to market, I am wondering if common service parts, such as crowns, crown tubes, stems and crystals, and the parts that seal the crystal to the watch case, will those parts be available in the future? Will the company still be there? I hope so.

You see, to my way of thinking, that is when something that I purchase truly becomes affordable - That is when I know that I can get the thing serviced and repaired and returned to a performance level close to what it was when new.

For a watch, that speaks to the quality of the movement, but it also speaks to the quality of parts that enclose and protect it. - The case, crystal, and the 'where the hole is' - the crown, crown tube and stem and seals. That is where the obvious point of primary failure through wear and age is. Will those parts be available? Will there be a company that will service the watch in the future? What if there is no one who will take that on?

As it is now, many reputable companies will no longer service some Seiko movements. Its a 'buy and replace a module' deal. Fine. As long as the 'module' is available....

Will that be the situation with the Miyota '9015' -- ? I hope not, as of this writing I own at least four of them. And so far, they are all great, but the oldest one is only about two years old, too.

Another point - For 'the affordables' - for such a low price, there must be some trade-offs.

:think: Unless the immutable laws of time and physics have changed, there is still 'no free lunch' -

What has been left out to get to such a low price?

:think: With MKII, I know a proven company that has an established track record, a solid reputation for service, and an unprecedented, unwavering, solid committment to quality, performance, and a reasonable price.

Have a Great Day, and Enjoy Your Time....


----------



## Pentameter

mleok said:


> If the responsiveness with regards to warranty claims and replacement policies of Borealis vs. MKII is any indication, I would be more concerned about the long term parts availability for MKII.


Its ridiculous to single them out for this concern when SO MANY other companies have used, and continue to use ETA movements. If it's a problem for MkII then it's gonna be a problem for EVERYONE.


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## CMSgt Bo

Let's keep the derogatory unfounded speculation and discussion of Bill's business practices off of this thread and out of this sub-forum please.

There won't be a second warning.

Thank you!


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## mleok

Pentameter said:


> Its ridiculous to single them out for this concern when SO MANY other companies have used, and continue to use ETA movements. If it's a problem for MkII then it's gonna be a problem for EVERYONE.


In that post, I was referring to case parts, dials, and hands, not movement parts. I agree that the ETA is probably not a source of concern, but at the same time, a Miyota 9015 is unlikely to be a source of concern either.


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## fdnyems1

So exactly what are you asking meleok?


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## fdnyems1

As far as Borealis watches go there a well known micro brand that makes exceptional watches at a good price in comparison to many other dive watch brands.As stated above of cause people would prefer the ETA movements,but there prices have skyrocketed.The go to movement at the time for many small companies is the Miyota 9015 movement which happens to be an excellent option to the ETA 2824 or even for that matter the 2892.If regulated properly it can run at +-3 SPD.With Swatch having a strangle hold on basically all watch movements being produced the Miyota movements are indeed a very viable option.I hope that helps answer your question meleok.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mleok

fdnyems1 said:


> So exactly what are you asking meleok?


Again, I'm happy for MKII fans who are happy with their experiences. I am willing to accept that for some, the aesthetic subtleties are worth the price differential, but it is disingenuous to wonder out loud if one gives up something for a lower price and thereby implicitly disparage the quality of a Borealis.

After all, do you think you give up something going with a cheaper MKII as opposed to a Rolex or Tudor? If not, what makes you think that Borealis is unable to offer a decent quality product at their price point?

Borealis is quite impressive in terms of their responsiveness to customer concerns. When a small handful of people encountered minor issues with their new Estoril 300s, they were sent out a new watch, and a prepaid shipping label to return the one with issues. That to me is a impressive level of customer care.


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## fdnyems1

Meleok your so absolutely right.I totally agree with what your saying.


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## mleok

fdnyems1 said:


> As far as Borealis watches go there a well known micro brand that makes exceptional watches at a good price in comparison to many other dive watch brands.As stated above of cause people would prefer the ETA movements,but there prices have skyrocketed.The go to movement at the time for many small companies is the Miyota 9015 movement which happens to be an excellent option to the ETA 2824 or even for that matter the 2892.If regulated properly it can run at +-3 SPD.With Swatch having a strangle hold on basically all watch movements being produced the Miyota movements are indeed a very viable option.I hope that helps answer your question meleok.


Thanks for the response, I wasn't really questioning that Miyota 9015s will continue to be available and serviceable. Citizen is a company that I trust will continue to support their products. They are a perfectly decent movement, and I have no issue with watches that use them.


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## fdnyems1

Me either.I have a Citizen atomic watch I use to set all my automatic watches .Also have quite a few watches with the Miyota 9015 movement such as the Benurus Moray and the Deep Raven.I even have a Miyota 9100 movement and just love it.At the same time I have many Swiss watches and love them too.The only problem I have had with one watch that had the 9015 was when I tried to have it repaired and my watch maker told me it was impossible to get parts for them to repair it and he wanted to replace the whole movement.So I finally just sent it back to the company that made it and I'm still waiting to hear how much it is to repair it.I figured if they didn't have access to parts no one would.Other than that one expirence with the 9015 I have nothing,but high praise for Citizen movements and there products.


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## OmegaCosmicMan

:-s OK. Now, I am really wondering why you folks (@mleok and @fdnyems1) are going out of your way to drop into a MKII forum to discuss another brand's watches, (and so vigorously too!)








:think: And for the record, _Be Advised_ (@mleok) that I put my money where my mouth is as far as Borealis, because I purchased their product.














Have you ever purchased a MKII product? Or do you just _happen_ to drop by here to offer criticism only? What is Your Motivation? Eh?








 In other words, I own one, so *I supported their company by purchasing it*, and I am not disparaging their brand by 'wondering out loud' about trade-offs or compromises between a very low price and long-term support from the seller, or the long-term lifespan of that watch. I can say that I have followed Borealis' progress and developments for that project, and others as well, fairly closely. I have some degree of admiration for what they have accomplished with the Estoril 300. And so far, I am pleased with mine. Enough so, that I posted here, in the MKII forum about it.

I have some experience with MKII as well, and I can tell you that, as far as I know, and in my own experience, there has never been a situation where MKII shipped me a watch with a defect, and then had to offer to take it back. So maybe its a really good thing that MKII's watches are closely checked and re-checked before they are shipped (so they don't have to be returned in the first place. )

I hope you all enjoy your various watches as much as I enjoy my MKII watches. Then we will all Be really Happy! 

So. Go on Your way now, and Be Happy!









--- Have a Great Weekend ----


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## mleok

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :-s OK. Now, I am really wondering why you folks (@mleok and @fdnyems1) are going out of your way to drop into a MKII forum to discuss another brand's watches, (and so vigorously too!)


Wasn't that the point of this particular thread? I understand this is on the MKII subforum, but the thread is discussing the SM300 from Borealis. In any case, given that the Project 300 hasn't yet shipped, one can't exactly make a direct comparison between a MKII Project 300 and a Borealis Estoril 300, can we? I do however have a Watchco Seamaster 300 as well, so that's as close to some sort of comparison as we're going to get for now.


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## fdnyems1

Cosmic man no criticism about either brands you mentioned there both fine watch brands and I never said anything different.As for what you said I agree with you totally and was not bashing anyone.If you misinterpreted what I said I'm sorry,it was not my intent to bash any company.I'm just a fellow watch enthusiast as I'm sure you are as well.Have a wonderful weekend !!


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## lipjin

I was drawn here by an email as a plank owner of the p.300. From what I can see, it's much ado about nothing. 

I choose to collect MKIIs, that's it.


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## fdnyems1

Exactly 


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## poisonwazthecure

I own a borealis estoril. I also have a key west on order. The borealis is absolutely fantastic. Might be my best micro to date along with my benarus moray. 

I love the aesthetics of the estoril so much that I'm considering putting down money for the project 300. Or save the money and go for the tornek rayville? Decisions decisions.


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## Seppia

poisonwazthecure said:


> I love the aesthetics of the estoril so much that I'm considering putting down money for the project 300. Or save the money and go for the tornek rayville? Decisions decisions.


I think the Estoril scratches the hitch for very little money, and is apparently VERY well executed, especially for the price. 
Otherwise, just go for a watchco or a vintage Omega (aka: the real thing). 
Spending $1200 and have to wait for ages for a homage watch that has either the real thing available or a very well done homage for 1/3 of the price makes no sense (in my opinion obviously)


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## Darwin

A. One of the great things about personal preference is that it is unique and subjective - there are 7.8 billion people on this planet and each of us has a unique point of view and are inspired by different things. What you say "makes no sense" makes no sense to you. To others, including many of the people who frequent this forum, it makes perfect sense. Consider that many of the people who are willing to wait for Bill's watches own, or have owned in the past, the watches he is referencing. We are each entitled to make our own decisions about what makes sense to us, please don't condescend to the rest of us and presume to tell us what does and what does not make sense.
B. Some people are willing to wait. This is a watch afterall, not insulin or bypass surgery. One CAN wait for a very long time for it to be delivered without ill effect. Patience is a virtue.
C. Some people want a watch that sits between Borealis (or Lew&Huey or Precista) and Omega in terms of quality, fit and finish. Those who put down their hard earned money deem the MKII to occupy that space. You apparently do not. Get over it.
D. Not everyone can afford $3000 for a Watcho or $5500+ for a vintage Omega. See point C above.
E. In know English is not your first language. You need to know that there are subtle differences in meaning that differentiate synonyms. In WISdom, "replica" refers to a fake, a watch that is meant to pass for the real thing while "homage" refers to a watch that draws styling cues from the watch it references but otherwise does not carry the original manufacturer's branding and is not trying to pass for the real thing. Kind of like the Borealis Estoril 300. It's a (n apparently - haven't had on in my hands yet) well executed homage to the Omega it references. If it had "Omega" on the dial it would be a replica, that is, a fake Omega. As it does not carry any Omega branding, it is not. This is true, too, of the MKII Project 300. Characterizing these watches as replicas is an extreme insult to the people who created them.

Finally, we've already been warned in this thread about discussing MKII's business model, so comments like "spending $1200 and have to wait for ages for a replica watch" are probably best left unsaid or at best reworded.



Seppia said:


> I think the Estoril scratches the hitch for very little money, and is apparently VERY well executed, especially for the price.
> Otherwise, just go for a watchco or a vintage Omega (aka: the real thing).
> Spending $1200 and have to wait for ages for a replica watch that has either the real thing available or a very well done replica for 1/3 of the price makes no sense.


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## Seppia

Darwin said:


> What you say "makes no sense" makes no sense to you.
> E. In know English is not your first language. You need to know that there are subtle differences in meaning that differentiate synonyms. .


Of course you're right, edited my post. 
I think it's often implied that when somebody posts a comment it's his opinion, but better specify. 
Also edited the "replica" part.



Darwin said:


> Finally, we've already been warned in this thread about discussing MKII's business model, so comments like "spending $1200 and have to wait for ages for a replica watch" are probably best left unsaid or at best reworded.


I hope I am still allowed to state a fact. 
MKII watches are homages you have to wait a (very) long time to get. 
To me, it is a minus, which is why I own zero MKII watches.


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## CMSgt Bo

Seppia said:


> Of course you're right, edited my post.
> I think it's often implied that when somebody posts a comment it's his opinion, but better specify.
> Also edited the "replica" part.
> 
> I hope I am still allowed to state a fact.
> MKII watches are homages you have to wait a (very) long time to get.
> To me, it is a minus, which is why I own zero MKII watches.


Sure you can state facts. But when you tie "Spending $1200 and have to wait for ages for a homage watch" to "makes no sense" it moves from a fact to an opinion. And since you have no skin in the game your comments come off as trolling.

I left a warning, you should heed it.


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## Aceldama

Did I mention the "Ignore" feature on this forum? It works wonders for the blood pressure...


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## Chromejob

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :-s OK. Now, I am really wondering why you folks (@mleok and @fdnyems1) are going out of your way to drop into a MKII forum to discuss another brand's watches, (and so vigorously too!)
> View attachment 8682914
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Have you ever purchased a MKII product? Or do you just _happen_ to drop by here to offer criticism only? What is Your Motivation? Eh?....


Quite possibly WUS members search on keywords like BOREALIS and ESTORIL, then read and join in the discovered threads. That's why I asked in a separate post if the member "knew you're in the Mk II forum?" Honest question.

I've done that, started replying before realizing I'd just jumped over to another sub-community. There's no ill intent at work by default. :-/


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## cpotters

The rationale (and I use that word literally) for value depends on your threshold for expectations, threshold for budget, and - in the case of long wait times - threshold for pain. The Borialis "looks" the part of a beefy divers watch, but sometimes beauty is but skin deep. 

Perhaps, if the technical drawing notes are an indication, and that the crystal is to be held in with "hot glue" on the Borealis, that is just one example of a means of keeping production costs low. It is important to note that no company that makes serious dive watches would ever use glue to seal the crystal.

"The Project 300 is essentially built in the same way the more expensive Rolexes or Omegas etc, ... in regards to serviceability. Almost all of the parts are replaceable/repairable separately including the case tube, bezel, bezel insert, click spring, and crystal. These features require precision and as a result are more expensive to incorporate into any watch. In addition it took a great deal more effort on (Bill Yao's) part to design a watch that uses industry best practices to seal the crystal. The Estoril by comparison (probably) could not accomdate a gasket to seal the crystal, there just isn't enough space available".

There are always trade-offs. While I know the Borealis wouldn't even qualify as a dive watch in my collection, I've already said I'd be happy to own one (again, my birthday is in a few months if you're feeling generous).

But that $1,200 price-point you mentioned has much more to do with specs than looks.

Most people in this forum (a pretty picky group, overall) would tell you that buying what have proven to be nearly chronometer-grade tool watches at under $2,000 is what brings them back to MkII again and again. Remember, many people own multiple watches from the brand: either we collectively exhibit horrible judgement (always possible) or we have actually SEEN something in the models we'd originally purchased that was SO unique, SO compelling, that we opted to blow much of our hard-earned watch budgets on another MkII instead of many less expensive options.

I can not, and WOULD not tell you what to do... But I am always most impressed in a product when smart and well-informed people vote with their wallets.


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## Ffej4

This thread only has me wishing that I'm not a college student and had enough money to own a Borealis, a Mk II, and an Omega. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cpotters

Ffej4 said:


> This thread only has me wishing that I'm not a college student and had enough money to own a Borealis, a Mk II, and an Omega.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We didn't start by buying all these watches. Accumulate knowledge now, it will save you huge money as your wallet matures


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## MHe225

/Rant_On

I should now better by now, but still, people never cease to surprise (and disappoint) me. 
Why come here with no skin in the game, try to stir the pot, try to steal people's joy, badmouth someone's business and act like "murdered innocence"? 
No wonder the world is no better place.​
/Rant_Off

I'm too young / wasn't wealthy enough at the time, to purchase and own Omega's SM300. I missed out on the WatchCo builds of the same but managed to get in on MKII's Project 300. 
By the time I sent my deposit, 6 years and almost 4 months ago - yup, that's right, 2,307 days, but who's counting? - this was my 3rd deposit (also Quad10 and Kingston), yet I hadn't seen a single MKII watch in real life. Just reading the specs and looking at pictures of previous pieces was enough for me. O yeah, a few e-mail exchanges with Mr. Yao, his answers to my questions, convinced me that I was making the right decision.

Up to this point, Mr. Yao has not disappointed and delivered solid and beautiful pieces with our Quad10, Kingston, Nassau and Hawking (the latter felt like cheating, we received those yesterday, only weeks after ordering :-d). There have been a few issues - nothing to do with the watches themselves - and the way Mr. Yao has solved these has only increased my appreciation and respect for the man.

I have no qualms with the long wait, I still have a few watches that can tell time in the meantime. The long wait has advantages too - the watch will be free to me by the time it's ready: I usually drop all my pocketchange in a bucket and over a 6-7 years period that's enough to pay for my P300 ;-)

Call me a fanboy if you* must; I don't care. I'm not blind to reality, but I've made a conscious decision to get all MKII pieces that appeal to me and the long wait times is just part of "the experience". If that's not for you*, fine, but please do accept that other people are okay with it. And again, absolutely no need to steal their joy or attempt souring their experience.

One final word: this sub-forum is sponsored by MKII / Mr. Yao, so when you* are here, you* are a guest in his virtual house / home. Please do behave accordingly, be the guest you* want other people to be when they come visit you* in your* house.

Back to watches; too many words already, so let me add 1,000 more by means of sharing a picture:









* you know who you are ...... ;-)


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## Sean779

MHe225 said:


> /Rant_On
> I should now better by now, but still, people never cease to surprise (and disappoint) me.
> Why come here with no skin in the game, try to stir the pot, try to steal people's joy, badmouth someone's business and act like "murdered innocence"?
> No wonder the world is no better place.​
> /Rant_Off
> 
> I'm too young / wasn't wealthy enough at the time, to purchase and own Omega's SM300. I missed out on the WatchCo builds of the same but managed to get in on MKII's Project 300.
> By the time I sent my deposit, 6 years and almost 4 months ago - yup, that's right, 2,307 days, but who's counting? - this was my 3rd deposit (also Quad10 and Kingston), yet I hadn't seen a single MKII watch in real life. Just reading the specs and looking at pictures of previous pieces was enough for me. O yeah, a few e-mail exchanges with Mr. Yao, his answers to my questions, convinced me that I was making the right decision.
> 
> Up to this point, Mr. Yao has not disappointed and delivered solid and beautiful pieces with our Quad10, Kingston, Nassau and Hawking (the latter felt like cheating, we received those yesterday, only weeks after ordering :-d). There have been a few issues - nothing to do with the watches themselves - and the way Mr. Yao has solved these has only increased my appreciation and respect for the man.
> 
> I have no qualms with the long wait, I still have a few watches that can tell time in the meantime. The long wait has advantages too - the watch will be free to me by the time it's ready: I usually drop all my pocketchange in a bucket and over a 6-7 years period that's enough to pay for my P300 ;-)
> 
> Call me a fanboy if you* must; I don't care. I'm not blind to reality, but I've made a conscious decision to get all MKII pieces that appeal to me and the long wait times is just part of "the experience". If that's not for you*, fine, but please do accept that other people are okay with it. And again, absolutely no need to steal their joy or attempt souring their experience.
> 
> One final word: this sub-forum is sponsored by MKII / Mr. Yao, so when you* are here, you* are a guest in his virtual house / home. Please do behave accordingly, be the guest you* want other people to be when they come visit you* in your* house.
> 
> Back to watches; too many words already, so let me add 1,000 more by means of sharing a picture:
> 
> View attachment 8695354
> 
> 
> * you know who you are ...... ;-)


beautiful...proportions are right on...worth waiting for.


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## bob m

yah know I am getting sick of that dude. "worth every minute" wtf does that mean. Worth every min my ass. Im a detective sergeant and noting is worth every minute except your friends and loved ones health. Christ. Its stupid watch that we chose to buy. Frankly the wait has pissed me off once in a great while, and I think its excessive, but Im in it for the long haul. The money actually means nothing to me as does the wait when put in perspective of its a material object. There are more important things in life that *****ing about SOMEONE else WAITING FOR A WATCH that YOU are not even going to buy. What gives dude. Why do you care. Christ I dont post much. Enjoy your borealis ok. I think its a beautiful watch. BTW I have stopped myself from buying a sub and a new omega sm just because Im in this one and I dont think those prices can be justified. I have a LRP-over 8 years old. The only watch I wear. I still get people asking me about it. 

The worth every min post really pissed me off with all the .... that is going on in the world. 

Note: I spend my cash on my kids and my BMW Ms-I dont mind waiting for a stupid watch but I sure do mind people that say I should mind.


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## Chromejob

Geez. Okay. CMSgt has spoken. Let's get back to the topic already....


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## mario24601

I really love look of both 300s. Didn't know mkii taking 6 years but I'm sure worth the wait. He doesn't have a following for nothing. 

I just ordered the borealis. I already have a Omega but wanted something to serve as a daily wearer that I would not be scared to get wet. 

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


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## OmegaCosmicMan

:think: @bob m. *Thanks*. Righteous indignation expressed.

:think: Thankfully. I spared myself by using that "Ignore" button or setting.

I really hesitated to use that feature, and I put it off for a long time, but *some* who have dropped in here from time-to-time, while sharing their 'higher knowledge' and 'opinions'....

:think: .....Well, let's just say, that *they Earned That Exclusive Treatment*.

:think: Now I'm not telling any of the rest of you what you should do, but I can tell you that *it works for me*. 

--- Have a Safe and Pleasant Weekend ---


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## mlankton

Yao said:


> What I can say about the Borealis watch is that this is the reason why we started Mk II in the first place. When I first started collecting I found a lot of inexpensive homage watches that looked great online but after seeing them in person I found them lacking. Essentially, the Project 300, is designed to be a good watch that is meant to reference the SM 300 and not the least expensive substitute. To give you an example we couldn't even sell the parts, un-assembled for the same price as the Borealis watch and do anything but lose a lot of money. The 300, as with all of our watches, is priced based on the cost and not on how much we think people were willing to pay. If we could have done the Project 300 for a price under $1k we would have.
> 
> That being said I wish Borealis luck with their version. In the end I believe our watches serve two different groups of customers.


It will be interesting to see the side by side comparisons between the two. Here's one, Estoril announced Sept. 2015, shipped July 2016, to rave reviews from happy owners I might add. Not sure about the MkII, when was it announced, 2011?


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## SimpleWatchMan

Interesting thread.

Haven't got any MKII watches yet, but I am a big fan of Kingston (especially the gilt dial), after being "poisoned" by the brothers at BSHT thread. 

Have not read this whole thread yet, but would like to know more about the difference between MKII, Borealis and Omega SM300.

Thank you for your patience.


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## Darwin

Text deleted due to context having changed.

Here's a picture to start a new page and to do so *somewhat* on topic.









Have a great Sunday everyone (or at least everyone for whom it is still Sunday wherever they happen to be; otherwise have a great Monday)!


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## STEELINOX

mlankton said:


> It will be interesting to see the side by side comparisons between the two. Here's one, Estoril announced Sept. 2015, shipped July 2016, to rave reviews from happy owners I might add. Not sure about the MkII, when was it announced, 2011?


I guess it may have some "entertainment value" to those, so, hopefully that will happen...

Merry Sunday !

Randy


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## calwatchguy

.

WatchCo version says hi with a lume shot. Happy Sunday y'all. Quickly has become my daily work watch on a super comfortable bonetto cinturini.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STEELINOX

calwatchguy said:


> .
> 
> WatchCo version says hi with a lume shot. Happy Sunday y'all. Quickly has become my daily work watch on a super comfortable bonetto cinturini.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The "bonetto centurini," sounds good enough to eat so enjoy !

MK II White Knight AND Gilt Noire KEY WEST


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## Chromejob

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: Now I'm not telling any of the rest of you what you should do, but I can tell you that *it works for me*.


I've used _ignore lists_ for years. Very handy feature. Sometimes I tell the lucky enrollee, sometimes not. I remember someone on _spacebar.com_ (telnet chat site run by some Organic Online folks back in the day) saying, "Welcome to my squelch list," and the phrase has stuck.

You can still view their posts, there's "View post" as well as "Remove from ignore list" links.

Addendum:

One reason we have new-to-Mk-II visitors here in MkII-land is that the thread is discussed over in the BOREALIS ESTORIL 300 thread.

There's a lot of enthusiasm in that thread for what is clearly a nice homage. Let's be good hosts.

BTW, the Estoril environs is where much of _On Her Majesty's Secret Service_ was filmed. Even though Bond didn't wear a SM300 in that film.


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## Chromejob

P.S. Here's a really great review of the Estoril 300, lots o' pics

https://www.watchuseek.com/f74/borealis-estoril-300-a-2341002-105.html#post31245834 (post 1050)


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## Pentameter

mlankton said:


> It will be interesting to see the side by side comparisons between the two. Here's one, Estoril announced Sept. 2015, shipped July 2016, to rave reviews from happy owners I might add. Not sure about the MkII, when was it announced, 2011?


you really need to get a life

Seriously why do we keep getting these people coming around complaining about things they don't own or have a stake in? Are MkII fans going on the Estoril forums and crapping on their watches and the people that bought them? I doubt it. I just cannot understand this behavior, or what the purpose of these comments are. I would think people have better things to do with their lives, but apparently that's not the case.


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## CMSgt Bo

Every forum has their trolls, and when the Management has had enough they'll find themselves on the outside looking in. Or in this case they'll see nothing at all.


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## Sean779

I wouldn't mind if this thread were closed, when I usually would. The physical Borealis is being compared to the unfinished MKII. My expectations are that the MKII will have more perfect proportions. The nuisance here is intimating you can't distinguish perfect from imperfect proportions. 

If you can't see it, don't sweat it, don't spend the money, you made the right choice.


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## Sean779

I wouldn't mind if this thread were closed, when I usually would. The physical Borealis is being compared to the unfinished MKII. My expectations are that the MKII will have more perfect proportions. The nuisance here is intimating you can't distinguish perfect from imperfect proportions. 

If you can't see it, don't sweat it, don't spend the money, you made the right choice.


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## mleok

Sean779 said:


> I wouldn't mind if this thread were closed, when I usually would. The physical Borealis is being compared to the unfinished MKII. My expectations are that the MKII will have more perfect proportions. The nuisance here is intimating you can't distinguish perfect from imperfect proportions.
> 
> If you can't see it, don't sweat it, don't spend the money, you made the right choice.


Do you think the MKII will have more perfect proportions than the original SM300? I've seen the photos of the prototype, and while I agree that the bezel proportions are better than on the Borealis, I'm not a fan of the spacing for the 10 on the bezel.


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## Sean779

mleok said:


> Do you think the MKII will have more perfect proportions than the original SM300? I've seen the photos of the prototype, and while I agree that the bezel proportions are better than on the Borealis, I'm not a fan of the spacing for the 10 on the bezel.


See, that's the whole thing, which I didn't want to get into, is that the bezel proportions are off on the Borealis. I don't care about the 10 spacing on the bezel. Loupes and nitpickers. And yes, I assume the MKII will have perfect proportions within itself.


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## Sean779

mleok said:


> Do you think the MKII will have more perfect proportions than the original SM300? I've seen the photos of the prototype, and while I agree that the bezel proportions are better than on the Borealis, I'm not a fan of the spacing for the 10 on the bezel.


See, that's the whole thing, which I didn't want to get into, is that the bezel proportions are off on the Borealis. I don't care about the 10 spacing on the bezel. Loupes and nitpickers. And yes, I assume the MKII will have perfect proportions within itself.


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## mleok

Sean779 said:


> See, that's the whole thing, which I didn't want to get into, is that the bezel proportions are off on the Borealis. I don't care about the 10 spacing on the bezel. Loupes and nitpickers. And yes, I assume the MKII will have perfect proportions within itself.


The bezel proportions were pointed out even on the Borealis forums. I was asking about your thoughts about the proportions of the Omega or Watchco SM300. Put another way, would a more perfect clone of the original SM300 have been preferable, or do you think the MKII improves upon the original?


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## Aceldama

Step 1: Click on user's name.
Step 2: Click on "View Profile".
Step 3: Click on "Add to Ignore List"
Step 4: Click on "Yes" to confirm.


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## Sean779

mleok said:


> The bezel proportions were pointed out even on the Borealis forums. I was asking about your thoughts about the proportions of the Omega or Watchco SM300. Put another way, would a more perfect clone of the original SM300 have been preferable, or do you think the MKII improves upon the original?


The Omega/Watchco is the standard for this watch. There's no improving it. I haven't seen the MKII have you? I expect an excellent watch based on Yao's previous ones.

Yes, I think a perfect clone of the original SM300 is one good choice but that would be ethically and perhaps legally not possible. The ethics of homages are scrambled, territory not able to be regulated--no big deal, we'll muddle through it as always...


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## mario24601

I really don't think this can be improved on:










Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


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## Aceldama

mario24601 said:


> I really don't think this can be improved on:


Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right? It's iconic, perceived flaws and all.

My icons say hi:


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## calwatchguy

On the way to work with this guy. Hard to get it off my wrist these days.

I think that the P300 will be pretty awesome the more I think about it. I also didn't think the design had been 100% nailed down but I am not following that project nearly as closely as the KW. Even the WatchCo pieces are getting pretty hard to source. So a very well made homage would be great.

I've got/had a lot of micros at various price points and MKII is noticeably better to me compared to most groups. I happen to love some of the original designs of other Micros, but MKII has a very high quality feel.

Are they worth the price, well that's up to the individual consumer to decide and spend accordingly. Clearly a lot of people agree. Simple supply demand economics here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mleok

Omega cut off the supply of replacement parts that made the Watchcos possible at the end of last year, and prices had been on the rise for about a year before that in anticipation of this.


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## driver1969

Mine says hi!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CMSgt Bo

mario24601 said:


> I really don't think this can be improved on:
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


Everything can be improved upon. I have a SM300 that I don't dare get wet for fear the bezel insert will delaminate and depart the watch.

Modern technology and materials go a long way to improve durability and reliability.


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## CMSgt Bo

As does mine...


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## Maxy

Yao said:


> What I can say about the Borealis watch is that this is the reason why we started Mk II in the first place. When I first started collecting I found a lot of inexpensive homage watches that looked great online but after seeing them in person I found them lacking.


I totally get Yao's point of view in cheap homages but I think he picked the wrong watch example(without even seeing the watch). It would make sense if he talks about GMT watches like Squale, Aramar, etc(very sub-par) trying to cash in the folks waiting for Key-West but Borealis has hit it out of the park. I don't think rest of the Borealis products or even the whole company ever produced such as watch which clicks 9/10 or more ticks in a watch. Borealis 300 is a winner and every right and doesn't represent sub-par watch making.

Actually, the reason for me not to get Project 300 is that Bill is making just Big triangle watches and I wanted a date. Big triangle and date gives just 2 numbers on dial (6 & 9) which looks incomplete to my mind. I think the minimum should be 3 numbers to give it some synchrony to the dial. Bill should have made the below watches as well besides the big triangle. I prefer the date version in here!


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## Chromejob

The Borealis is lovely, and probably not representative of the homages Bill was referring to. But I feel the lume on the dial numerals is overkill, whether accurate to a particular model or otherwise. It's just too much for a tool watch [edit] for my taste. YMMV.

You're also taking his comments several months out of context. The Borealis is out now and we can SEE IT.


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## mario24601

But it looks cool 










Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


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## Watches503

Yeah, I'm a Lume junkie


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## mleok

Chromejob said:


> The Borealis is lovely, and probably not representative of the homages Bill was referring to. But I feel the lume on the dial numerals is overkill, whether accurate to a particular model or otherwise. It's just too much for a tool watch.
> 
> You're also taking his comments several months out of context. The Borealis is out now and we can SEE IT.


Why did he make those comments at that time to begin with, given that he hadn't yet seen the final product at that time? Given which thread he decided to post this on, it seems pretty clear that he was targeting the Borealis Estoril specifically in his post.

I would say that it's precisely because it's tool watch that the bezel should be lumed. If you can't see it in the dark and under water, then you might as well not have it on the watch at all.


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## Chromejob

mario24601 said:


> But it looks cool
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


*Indeed.*


Watches503 said:


> Yeah, I'm a Lume junkie


I saw your photo the other night and stopped breathing for a moment. Fantastic shot, really complements the Borealis' beauty.


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## Chromejob

mleok said:


> Why did he make those comments at that time to begin with, given that he hadn't yet seen the final product at that time? Given which thread he decided to post this on, it seems pretty clear that he was targeting the Borealis Estoril specifically in his post...


Pretty clear to you, but not to me. The discussion to that point seemed to center on value to cost ratio, and he was defending the cost of his parts and assembly versus a watch running roughly $400. You don't have to "target" the more affordable watch in order to explain your own production costs. Me thinks you're trying to stop a fight _where there isn't one_.



mleok said:


> ... I would say that it's precisely because it's tool watch that the bezel should be lumed. If you can't see it in the dark and under water, then you might as well not have it on the watch at all.


Bezel ... *dial*. Bezel ... *DIAL*. Reread my comment:



Chromejob said:


> ... But I feel the lume on the dial numerals is overkill, whether accurate to a particular model or otherwise. It's just too much for a tool watch [edit] for my taste. YMMV....


The bezel lume pattern is IMHO a hallmark of the SM300, along with those sword hands. I like though how the SM300 has numerals on the dial (ahem) in daylight, but then in the dark "switches" to a different, more efficient dial marking pattern with numbers on the bezel giving you the essential timing information.

It's just a matter of taste and personal appreciation.


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## Watches503

Chromejob said:


> *Indeed.*
> 
> I saw your photo the other night and stopped breathing for a moment. Fantastic shot, really complements the Borealis' beauty.


Wow ! Thanks a lot for the kind words.


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## mleok

Chromejob said:


> Pretty clear to you, but not to me. The discussion to that point seemed to center on value to cost ratio, and he was defending the cost of his parts and assembly versus a watch running roughly $400. You don't have to "target" the more affordable watch in order to explain your own production costs. Me thinks you're trying to stop a fight _where there isn't one_.


I agree that you don't have to target a more affordable watch in order to explain your own production costs, but that's exactly what he did. In particular, he insinuated that the only way to achieve that price point is to produce something that looks good in photos, but is disappointing in the metal.



Chromejob said:


> Bezel ... *dial*. Bezel ... *DIAL*. Reread my comment:
> 
> The bezel lume pattern is IMHO a hallmark of the SM300, along with those sword hands. I like though how the SM300 has numerals on the dial (ahem) in daylight, but then in the dark "switches" to a different, more efficient dial marking pattern with numbers on the bezel giving you the essential timing information.
> 
> It's just a matter of taste and personal appreciation.


I did see that you wrote dial on your earlier post, but the part where you said "whether accurate to a particular model or otherwise" made me think that you meant that even if the original was that way, it was still overkill in your opinion. Since the numerals on the original Seamaster 300s were not lumed, but they are lumed in the Borealis, I assumed you meant the bezel instead.


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## Chromejob

mleok said:


> I agree that you don't have to target a more affordable watch in order to explain your own production costs, but that's exactly what he did. In particular, he insinuated that the only way to achieve that price point is to produce something that looks good in photos, but is disappointing in the metal....


Some do, some small shops do not. ... We seem to be at an impasse. But if you want to take the position that Bill was badmouthing another watchmaker, you'd better have something more explicit than insinuation.



mleok said:


> ... I did see that you wrote dial on your earlier post, but the part where you said "whether accurate to a particular model or otherwise" made me think that you meant that even if the original was that way, it was still overkill in your opinion. Since the numerals on the original Seamaster 300s were not lumed, but they are lumed in the Borealis, I assumed you meant the bezel instead.


No, that's why I said "dial numerals." :-!


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## mleok

Chromejob said:


> Some do, some small shops do not. ... We seem to be at an impasse. But if you want to take the position that Bill was badmouthing another watchmaker, you'd better have something more explicit than insinuation.


It's called reading comprehension.


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## CMSgt Bo

This thread has run its course. Thank you everyone for your constructive contributions.


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