# I need a tie breaker!



## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Hi All,

i need a tie breaker!

I've made the decision to buy a Jaeger. In my budget (max $12k) I *think* this is my best option. 

I also *think* I've determined the collection: master. 

And I can safely say there are 8 watches I like and fit within my budget:

Master Grande Ultra Thin - 896
Master Calendar - 866, 924
Master Control - 899
Master Reserve de Marche - 938
Master Chronograph - 751A/1
Master Hometime - 975H
Master Ultra Thin Moon 39 - 925
Master Ultra Think Jubilee - 849 (actually not sure about price on this)

My final decision, which of these to buy, is the difficult thing. 

Price is not the tie breaker because they all fall within my budget. I like the look of each one equally. So that leaves me with trying to figure out which has the best movement... except that's been difficult to research and way above my knowledge of watches. 

Is it possible that even the movements will prove to be a draw? 

Is anyone able to break the draw? Is there a clear cut winner?

And finally, everyone agree that objectively speaking, buying a Jaeger is the best one can do in this range of $9k-$12k? Or is there another brand/model (someone suggested Zenith is a better choice?!?... Glasshute Original?!?) that one would recommend more in this price range (I could splurge up to $13k if worth it)?

As usual, thank you!

P.S. would anyone choose a similarly priced glasshute original over Jaeger? There are some in this price range for sure.


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## dak_la (Sep 13, 2012)

Hi Spazz27,

Welcome to the forum! First, I want to say that you have impeccable taste :-!! You have a great selection of watches to choose from, and I can see why you are having difficulty in deciding which one to get.

I'm also pretty new to the JLC world, having purchased my first JLC just last year, but here is my preference.

From a movement standpoint, I'd go for the Master Hometime as the 975H movements is built from ground-up to incorporate many of the newest features that JLC has to offer, including the famous Autotractor. This article provides a very detailed description and features of this movement:
ThePuristS.com - Jaeger Le Coultre cal.975

I also really like the way it implements the 2nd time zone. (I might be a bit bias as I have another JLC with the same movement)

Movement aside, there are two watches from your list I really like. One is the MUT Moon 39. Even though the moon phase complication isn't the most practical, that watch is just too gorgeous to pass up. I'm sure many here will also attest to that.

The other of my favorite is the Master Calendar, just a really good looking watch. Especially the latest iteration, I think JLC executes it in perfection.

If you are looking for suggestions of watches from other brands, the only other one I would consider around that price range would be the GO PML. It is a very different watch from the JLC Master series, so you just have to check them out in person to see which one speaks to you most.

To spend this kind of money, I would certainly get one that I'm most passionate about, one that I would not get tired looking at every day for a very long time.

Good luck, and have fun in your search!

Daniel


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks Daniel!

It's good to be a part of this community 

You definitely helped, in fact I was leaning with the watches you mentioned. 

Something I'm not sure about regarding the Master calendar: you mentioned the latest iteration, are you referring to the fact that there are 2 movements available?

I noticed one is the 866 and the other the 924. Which is the latest? Or are they both part of the latest?

And is the difference only the power reserve dial with the 924?

And lastly, is it incorrect to judge a movement, especially in the case of the Calendar, by the number of complications and/or jewels, etc?

For example, the 924 has both more jewels and complications. What stops it from being "better"?

I think of all things, the fact that the Master Calendar comes with 2 movements, and none of the others do, is the most puzzling. If one came after the other (not released at the same time), I'd almost think it was like a "correction". 

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again!!

Anthony


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## dak_la (Sep 13, 2012)

Hi Anthony,

The master calendar has just gotten a make-over this year. The new iteration (with caliber 866, replacing the older version housing caliber 924, the older version has been on the market for 8 years now!) has just been announced at the 2013 SIHH, so it probably will not be available until may be in a few more months. This is good news for you because the older version is still available if you really want it.

The new master calendar is a bit smaller in size (39mm compared to 40mm). It also takes away the power reserve complication, as you have already noted. For more information about the differences you can take a look at this:
Time and Watches: SIHH 2013: Jaeger-LeCoultre - Master Calendar

There are many factors in judging a movement: robustness, accuracy, ease of servicing and maintenance, power reserve, shock resistance, winding efficiency, among others. The complication (or the number of complication) of a watch is only important to the extent it is useful to you, and how it is presented on the dial. So to me, more complications does not necessarily equates to better movement (even all other things being equal). Sometimes more complications tend to clutter the dial, so it actually might not be a good thing in my opinion. Although I haven't been able to find much information about the 866 caliber to determine how else it is different from the 924 caliber, I think both the calibers are great movements produced by JLC.

Take a look at the dials of the two versions:

Old version:
View attachment 988426


New version:
View attachment 988427


I personally find the new dial much cleaner and better balanced. I also like the Jaeger-LeCoultre logo is located at the center of the dial rather than somewhere on the side.

Hope others can chime in as well.

Daniel


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Hi Daniel,

Once again thank you for the info! Very helpful... and yes, you're right: the new version is cleaned up and things line up better. 

...and while its a good 'problem' to have: which JLC to buy, I get the feeling it'll take me a little longer to decide with so many beautiful options


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## fareastcoast (Dec 10, 2012)

Ultra thin jubilee is out of your price range, it'll list for 18.5k


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## Omjlc (Dec 19, 2011)

Spazz27, have you actually tried the watches on your wrist? That will quickly shorten the list. Also, what complications do you actually need in life? Do you travel lots (Hometime)? Do you have a few watches in your collection such that the power reserve will come in handy? Would you ever use a chronograph? Do you wear suits often such that a thin and discreet watch will come in handy?

Personally, I own a Grande Ultra Thin as my dress watch. I like the simplicity and it fits well with the rest of my small collection. I can really recommend Glashutte Original (I have the PanoReserve) and I think it equals, if not, exceeds the quality of JLC (plus their bracelets are great).

Have fun with the search and make sure to try on as many different watches as you can.


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

fareastcoast said:


> Ultra thin jubilee is out of your price range, it'll list for 18.5k


Thanks!

Too bad, but thanks!


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks Omjlc,

You make a good point... currently my collection consists of a 1976-77 Omega Geneve (a keep sake my grandfather bought me when I was 5, and is literally in mint condition - I never wore it until now), and I have an IWC Doppel Chronograph, which I like very much... 

So, to your point, I agree that I don't want/need another Chrono with a 43mm case, etc., but my thought process when I asked my question was what in the JLC world is considered a "great movement"... for example, referring to that Omega I have, I honestly didn't know anything about it, I found out it was Calibre 565, did some digging in an Omega Forum and to my surprise, many, if not most would include the 565 as one of the best movements Omega has ever made (along with the 8500 and 30T2). So, it was nice to know that what I have, what my Grandfather bought me back in 1977 when these types of forums did not exist, etc., is considered a good buy within the Omega world. I also noticed there was lots of criticism with the 55x movements. So, while its hard to predict the future, it would be nice to know that what one buys is going to be one of the movements that will be considered a "great movement" and not a "not-so-great movement".

Of course, at this level, many of the JLC aficionados may say that JLC has yet to make a not-so-great movement, or that "they're all good in the Master Collection", but I don't know that.

So, it'd be nice to know, if there is a movement that truly stands out, or the opposite, if there is one to avoid, for what ever reason, know what I mean?

If that exists, it would help give me a tie breaker for sure.

And then, I suspect the same thing you said, that once I see them in person, if I am left with 2 or 3 options, the emotional response more than the analytical one may be (or should be?) the deciding factor... but at least then I can do that head first with no worries that I am buying a lemon 

...besides, its fun talking with a bunch of like-minded watch-crazy people along the way


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## dak_la (Sep 13, 2012)

Hi Anthony,

Looking at the watches you currently own, a JLC Master will certainly round up your collection very well. 

As you may know, JLC is known to produce quality movements, and supply many of them to other high-end brands such as AP, PP, Cartier, VC, etc. Although I don't have first hand experience in many of their movements, I don't think any one of the calibers you listed would be viewed as "not so great movements" in the future.

Two movements I would like to point out in particular though. The first one is their 899 caliber found in the Master Control (a new iteration of their famous 889 movement). The 889 movement has been in production for a long time and has proved to be a robust and reliable movement. This new iteration 899 caliber is an improved version of the 889, and has incorporated many new features that JLC introduced in its Autotractor movement (e.g., ceramic ball bearings in the rotor, among other things). This 899 movement is also being used in VC Overseas, AP Royal Oak, and other high-end watches. 

The other movement is the 975H caliber that I have mentioned in my earlier post. It is still the only true Autotractor movement that JLC has produced to date. While the 899 caliber (and some other calibers) has been "autotractorized" and incorporated some of the Autotractor feature, the 975H is still the only "Autotractor" movement that JLC built from ground-up. The article I linked in my earlier post has more detailed description of what the Autotractor movement includes, which i will not repeat here. 

I particularly point out these two movements because one (caliber 899) represents one of their most well-known and traditional movement, and other other (caliber 975H) showcases their latest technologies and improvements. 

Ultimately though, I don't think you will regret owning any of the movements you have listed here. Like what others have said, put each of them on your wrist and see which one makes your heart stop :-d.


Daniel


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thats fantastic Daniel!

I did read that article you sent, and amazing what goes into a watch movement, very educational.

I will definitely keep the 899 and 975H on the list and as Omjlc has also suggested, I will try them all on, etc., and make a decision then.

Feels good to know though (as you and others have mentioned), that you really can't go wrong with any movement. So that if at the end, the 'look' of another watch is "more me", I'll feel good about it no matter what 

a.


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## MattHofstadt (Jan 12, 2013)

Wow, super tough decision as all of the listed watches are phenomenal. You will, of course, buy whichever one you love most, but I would personally choose the 40mm Master Calendar. For me, the size, thickness, and overall dial aesthetic are ideal. Have you considered the 2011+ Master Geographic? Also a beautiful watch, and probably fun to iterate through the different time zones! I'm purchasing one of those this weekend... very excited!! b-)


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## reverso68 (Sep 3, 2012)

As others have written, whatever you choose from the list you can't do wrong.

I strongly recommend you try the ones you like more on your wrist.

I have a MGUT 40mm and I love it but I would now tend to opt for a 39mm (or even 38) size if possible. So the new Master Calendar or the Master Moon are very appealing to me.

I think JLC in this price range is absolutely unbeatable. I have recently bought also a Deep Sea Chronograph and I am totally in love with it.


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Hey Matt,

Yes, I have considered the Geographic! Really, really nice... and the Calendar is definitely on my radar too... and like you say, once there in person, I think the decision will become easier to take... one thing I'm not understanding though is why JLC changed (or switched) movements from last years Calendar and this years Calendar (924 to the 866), unless they're keeping both variations? But I think I read it is a replacement... but minor detail I guess... Im sure there was nothing wrong with the 924 movement either 

And good for you! Nothing better than buying a great watch (or a great car) 

a.


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Wow! You're right... even in pictures, to see a watch on a person really brings the look all together... both beautiful watches!

...and I've noticed the same thing about the size: I have an IWC 43mm (which I love too), and lately I've been wearing an Omega my grandfather bought me when I was 5... it's a keep sake for me since he passed, but its 38mm, and at first I thought "too small", but now, after a few months, I'm loving the size!

So, I will definitely keep that in mind... I think what I will also like is not just the diameter 'not to big', but the thickness! For example, your MGUT 40mm. I think that is a huge part of what makes the look!

Thanks for the advice, it is greatly appreciated 

a.


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## MattHofstadt (Jan 12, 2013)

reverso68 said:


> I think JLC in this price range is absolutely unbeatable.


100% agree with this. I can't think of any watch brand that offers the same level of value. The price/quality ratio is outstanding.


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Hello everyone,

Not to long ago I started this thread because I was buying a JLC and wanted opinions of others. 

I finally made my choice, which is the latest version of the Master Geographic. 

At the end, it was close between the Geographic and the Hometime, which I love. 

The tie breaker came via my wife!

She too landed with the same models, but I never told her the price (if I had, she would have chosen the cheaper one. And her logic would be sound: if you like them both so much, then buy the cheaper one and save the difference).

At the end, though 2 things prevailed:

1. She, like me was leaning Geographic after trying on similar watches. 

2. I know I'd like to add on to my collection (who among us wouldn't?), so looking ahead, and if your wife is like mine, what's easier? Getting her to agree to buy "another watch" that has an MSRP of $12k, one that has an MSRP if $8k?

That doesn't mean I'll get it, but my chances are definitely better adding on the Hometime later than the Geographic 

Thanks for all your input, I learned a lot and feel like joining the JLC club was the right choice. 

a. 

P.S. it arrives in May, and surprisingly my local AD was the most competitive price wise... I actually smashed the 15% off msrp barrier... and being local, that's big


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Hi everyone,

I posted a little while ago that I was looking to buy a JLC, and I have come to my decision (hometime or geographic), but now I have a question about pricing.

In the past, when I bought any of the watches I have owned, there was always the official msrp, and then the 'street' price, or 'discounted' price (whatever), that was automatic. And if there was any hard negotiating, it'd happen after that.

So my question is when s hopping for JLCs, what has been the norm that all of you have experienced?

Have you paid msrp exactly, or has it been discounted?

I've been told that a normal discount is around 15%-25% depending on the model from msrp... to a certain degree I've been able to corroborate this claim online at various online retailers, for example, I've seen the Geogrphic discounted 20%, etc.

How valid/accurate is that based on your experience (short of actually asking what you all paid)?

Thanks in advance!!

a.


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## LHL (Jan 18, 2012)

15% to 25% is about right. It all has to do with the AD. when i was looking for mine a while back my local AD was only offering 10% so I looked out of town where I got 20%. Congratulations on your New purchase. please post some pictures in the Master Compressor Club area once you receive it.


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## Vinel (Aug 1, 2011)

Spazz27 said:


> P.S. it arrives in May, and surprisingly my local AD was the most competitive price wise... I actually smashed the 15% off msrp barrier... and being local, that's big


Excellent choice! :-!, you're lucky to have ordered it based on the old price ($12000 msrp), I heard the price is about to go up this coming month.


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## dak_la (Sep 13, 2012)

Hope to see your new Master Geo soon! 20% off msrp sounds about right.


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## JoshTheCanadian (Oct 1, 2011)

Excellent choice on the Geographic.

Although do not overlook the beauty of the MUT Moon:

View attachment 1013478


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks Josh,

And no, I did not overlook anything. If you saw my original list, it was 14 long and the MUT Moon was definitely on it.

I love all designs with the Moon Phase.

a.


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks!... and wow... if they do go up, I will be even happier!

I actually miscalculated, at the end it was a 26% discount. I actually got the Geographic for a little more than the Hometime MSRP!

a.


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks, and yes, I hope to see it soon too.. lol.. but we're looking at end of April and most likely some time in May, which is consistent with every single Jeweler who gave me a 4-10 week estimate.

Thats ok, I'm patient


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks, and I will!

And you are right, I first started right down the street and they offered a free watch winder... so I left, and started calling out of state. Then I got some reasonable prices. With those in hand, I went to another local AD and asked why out of state Jewelers were so eager for my business and local ones were not, especially considering the servicing I would do, and possible future purchases.

With that, they matched the best price I got, which was exactly 26% off MSRP.

a.


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

...not sure how many are still subscribed to this thread I started way back when, but not only has the tie breaker been achieved, but it arrived yesterday.

Thanks again to all of the very helpful replies.

And I am very happy to officially be part if the JLC club


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## watchmego3000 (Jul 12, 2012)

It's a beauty!


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## dak_la (Sep 13, 2012)

Congrats Anthony! It looks gorgeous, and it fits very well on your wrist. Thanks for sharing the pictures! I just realized that the bezel on the master geo is thinner than some of the other in the master series.


Daniel


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

dak_la said:


> Congrats Anthony! It looks gorgeous, and it fits very well on your wrist. Thanks for sharing the pictures! I just realized that the bezel on the master geo is thinner than some of the other in the master series.
> 
> Daniel


Thanks!

And yes, the bezel is thinner and as I understood it, at least with the Geographic is a change made for 2013.

If I'm not mistaken, the 2012 version not only had a thicker bezel meaning the face was a little smaller... It kind of had that pie-pan shape in the dial, not flat, and the overall case diameter was 40mm instead the current 39mm.

With the thinner bezel its more dial than before and "wears bigger" (even though we're just talking 1mm)...


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## JLC1973 (May 19, 2013)

Very nice indeed. Congratulations!


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks!

For me, as I may have mentioned (don't remember), this is the first time I've handled a JLC. 

I'm very sure of what I like, so this was not a risk for me, but what surprised me is how many things don't translate via the photo. 

The photos are all gorgeous, but in the flesh, the size including height, and the weight and the feel in general exceeded expectations immensely!

...and I'm sure all of the other owners are reading this and thinking "yup, I know"


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## Vinel (Aug 1, 2011)

Spazz27 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> For me, as I may have mentioned (don't remember), this is the first time I've handled a JLC.
> 
> ...


Very true Spazz, The Master Geographic is one of the hardest to photograph. Big Congrats and enjoy your new gorgeous watch.


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## Spanish_Alex (Dec 29, 2012)

Spazz27 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> For me, as I may have mentioned (don't remember), this is the first time I've handled a JLC.
> 
> ...


Great watch Spazzz. If I may ask, are you happy with the legibility of the dial? I absolutely love the geographic, and think it is, with the Moon 39, the most interesting watch on the JLC MC lineup, but the lack of contrast between hands and face has worried me. What is your experience in this sense. Also, do you wear it to work? Suit and tie? Or does it wear well with jeans as well?

congratulations!


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Spanish_Alex said:


> Great watch Spazzz. If I may ask, are you happy with the legibility of the dial? I absolutely love the geographic, and think it is, with the Moon 39, the most interesting watch on the JLC MC lineup, but the lack of contrast between hands and face has worried me. What is your experience in this sense. Also, do you wear it to work? Suit and tie? Or does it wear well with jeans as well?
> 
> congratulations!


Hi Alex,

As mentioned I love the watch, and it's interesting you hit on those two points:

1. The legibility: it would be easier to read if there was more contrast, but it would not be as beautiful (one of the things I stare at is how the choice of color and finish really raise its luxury), and since it's still legible it's more than a worth while trade off. In other words, because of its beauty, I wouldn't change a thing.

2. Wearability: I actually don't wear suits much. My favorite material is jean, and this watch matches perfectly with everything. The key is the style. This watch is modern and requires modern attire wether that is a modern pair of Hiut jeans, slim linen shorts/shirt and rivieras, or the latest tailored suit.

As guidance (for lack if a better term), check out the recommendations at Mr Porter dot com... Not the brands, but the style of watches and clothing.


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## mikeyc (Jun 14, 2010)

Congrats on the watch Spazzz, I lusted long and hard over the Master Geographic, Hometime and Master Chrono as well, but in the end I went for the Chrono since I figured I would use that function more than a second time zone, but all three are great IMO.


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## Spazz27 (Feb 27, 2013)

Congrats to you too!... and at the end, that's the kind of logic I had to use as my "tie breaker":

I have 2 chronos already so thought not to add a 3rd... and figured it'd be easier to add-on the Hometime later than the Geographic later...

My wife didnt help because coincidentally those were the 3 she liked best too, so I could have easily chosen any of the others and I know I'd have been just has happy


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## Starbuk (Oct 30, 2012)

Nice choice. Happy to see JLC shrinking down the face of new watch models. I have been a fan of their entire lineup for the past two years.


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