# Fraser Timepiece Company - ONE44 Concept



## Gordon Fraser

Hello


(This is a massive post, so please only read if you’ve got a cup of tea and a comfy seat)


I have been a member of these forums for a few months now but I’ve been quietly obsessed with watches for as long as I can remember.


I’m 27 and have had watches for as long as I’ve been aware of them, but it’s nothing to write home about. I’ve never had the money to get serious with it so it’s been cheap digital watches or nothing.


Over the past couple of years or so I’ve got back in to it and have had a Wenger Aerograph “Vintage” on my wrist for a while now (as I said nothing special). That’s set to change at Christmas when my lovely fiancee/santa brings me a Citizen Nighthawk, as reward for designing and having made a bespoke engagement ring that I used in August.


I am very excited about it.


Anyway, this is a long way round to getting to the meat, but a bit of backstory is sometimes nice...(?)




I work in an architects in Scotland, we’re quite big. I also have a degree in Product Design and got the job as the model maker in house 5 years ago and as such have access to a Rapid Prototyper, Laser Cutter internally and many contacts that can do acid etching, metal plating for RP parts and many other techs outsourced...can you see where this is leading?




Basically I’ve designed a watch. I have no background in horological assembly, or indeed any knowledge of anything. I’m green. But I know what I like. I have a few questions that I am hoping to get answers to/pointed in the direction of so I can get my idea produced! Please don’t see this as me being lazy. I could spend the next year reading forum posts, learning stuff etc, but the best way to learn is to ask those in the know. So if you could be so kind as so help, I would be greatly appreciative.




The idea:


CASE


I have designed the case outer (aesthetics) and will be 3D modelling and Rapid Prototyping this in our Objet machine. It’s a photocuring resin and as such can be finished itself to an amazing smooth finish.


This will then be plated by a company that specialises in metal coating RP parts. They can do a lot of finishes and are reasonably cheap (£50 i expect)


Our machine has incredible tolerances, so the finish and fit will be pretty close. It’s obviously not going to be to the tolerances of a properly made/machined watch case, but it will be enough I hope. I will then take this if it works and all fits and get a proper bit of metal machined at a local shop if I can find one that does intricacy.


Dimensions of case are as thus:


41mm dia face/glass
44mm dia outer case 
22mm lug width




As an aside, do any of you have a sectional showing how a watch is constructed once assembled i.e. showing everything in place?




MOVEMENT/FACE
Here’s the first question. I will make this case to fit a pre-made movement. However I have no idea about this. The movement should fit in the 41mm dia so there’s no gaps around it (and by that I mean no 5mm gaps. a 0.5-1mm gap is fine.)


1: I’ve saw movements on websites that are aesthetically pleasing (either already plated/finished or skeletonised) and are assembled...but are they ready to go out the box? You just put them in, wind up and off you go? 


2: Are there any relationships between case and movement i.e. is there anything mechanical that I need to be aware of? Or is it simply a case of putting a movement in a case designed to accept it and you’re good?


3: I do not have the ability, tools or knowhow to deal with a face/hands etc. Is there places in the world where they can take an idea, or a face design and get it manufactured to pro standards i.e. under a macro lens it stands up as an actual watch face?


4: The movement will have 3 chrono dials on it, to the 12, 9 and 6 position, a date and power reserve at 3. Is there a movement that is in this configuration or close to it? I am willing to loose the reserve if its a problem.




CHRONO/CROWN


I will be making the crown and getting it plated too, but the chrono pushers are kind of standard fare. Is there anywhere that I can purchase these pushers?


Is there a resource or website that shows how movements in a chrono including the pushers and assembly, how that all works? I’m thinking about the interaction between the moving parts outside the case and how it relates to what goes on inside the case.




GLASS/CASEBACK


I will fabricate these as well but wouldn’t mind having a glass caseback to show off the movement, but I don’t mind.


Again I will amend the case to fit the standard sized parts.


WATERTIGHT?


I’m not going to achieve anything close to depth resistance, but a wee splash here should be ok if I install some kind of o-ring? I would really appreciate any knowledge on this.






SO!!


There you go. In a nutshell I am going to fabricate the case, caseback, crown. I am looking to source the movement, chrono pushers, face and glass. I would appreciate help on movements, chrono pushers and the face, if you would be so kind.






I hope this is not too much to get through and I really hope to hear some good replies. I know a lot of you will see this as complete rookie stuff and send me to google. But if you could take a moment out of your day to instill any of that vast knowledge I see around these forums, I would really appreciate it.




Final word on budget. There is none. It will be an “as and when” purchase but I am thinking sub £200-£300 for movement/face/glass. The other stuff I can get through work.


Gordon


p.s. I will be creating CG vis of this watch so will show you all when I've done that.


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## CamMan

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

My concern would be to the strength of the resin. After it is plated it will look nice but it may not be strong enough to handle daily bumps and the stresses of screwing the case back on to it. Please post some pictures as this project progresses.


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



CamMan said:


> My concern would be to the strength of the resin. After it is plated it will look nice but it may not be strong enough to handle daily bumps and the stresses of screwing the case back on to it. Please post some pictures as this project progresses.


Hi thanks for your reply

The resin/plated object is just for fit/sizing etc, I would get a proper one machined.

Thanks

G


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## Outta Time

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

A chronograph movement with power reserve, if Swiss, will be expensive, in the neighbourhood of $800-$1200. If you're going to go to the trouble of making this case, dial and crown yourself, as well as design the dial, etc, I would recommend Swiss. The other options are Chinese and Japanese, and of those two I would recommend the latter, although I'm coming up blank on a Miyota chrono, I'm sure wiser voices will chime in here. 
Unless you're talking about quartz here, in which case it would be much cheaper, although since you mention an exhibition caseback, I assume we're talking mechanical. I'm not aware of any new chrono movts that would simply fit snug in a 41mm opening. That would put the movt as being about 18''', the size of a pocket watch movt. The Valgranges chrono A07.211 might fit the bill at 36.6mm, and has the layout you are after, but no power reserve. It's pricey. These movts from ETA are large, and top of the line. A regular chronograph movt is around 13.25''', like the 7750 series. Most watches, even higher end ones, (Breitling, Omega) have a solid spacer ring inside for the movt to fit snugly in the case. This comes about from modern cases tending to be much larger than the older ones. If I were you I would get some cases from other watch brands, and have a look how they are made. The interior is a series of steps, with alternating diameters to accommodate the movt and dial and spacer ring and case clamps. The height of the hour wheel and cannon pinion dictates the height from the dial to the crystal, you want good clearance for the hands. You can go with a removable bezel, or mill the diameter for the crystal from the top of the case, and friction fit a flat or bombé sapphire or mineral crystal. The caseback will also have a friction fit, but flat mineral or sapphire glass. Where the movt sits in the case determines the position of the stem and pushers. pushers can be screwed in or press fit. The crown can be screw down or regular with gasket. A screw down crown would be challenging to build from scratch. You can secure your caseback either as a screw in piece, or with tiny screws around the periphery. 
So, essentially, from your movt, you take any and all measurements and design the case accordingly. There are common and uncommon crystal sizes, and that may affect your design also. These are just my thoughts on what I would look at if I were going to do it. I made an exhibition back, silver case for a ladies watch from scratch at school using hand tools, and I'm not likely to ever repeat that little foray into casemaking.


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## LCheapo

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

That sounds really fun! Some random bits:

Pushers can be ordered from Ofrei, or (I'm guessing) Cousins in Britain. Ditto for hands, crowns and crown tubes, etc..
An important concept/dimension for movement & cases, besides diameter, total thickness etc. is 'stem height'. Check the movement parameter post in the permanent section of the chinese mechanical forum: https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/comparison-selected-11-5-movements-interchangeability-467129.html
If you are custom designing a case, you can get away without a spacer/movement holder ring.
A cheap and good chrono movement is the Sea-Gull ST19. Specs/dimensions can be found online:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/sea-gull-st19-movement-pictures-74501.html
You can make your own dial (copper or other sheet metal, transfer film print), or get one made by one of the dial refinishers like International Dial.


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hi All

Thank you very much for replying.

Sounds like a great start!

To be honest I am really looking for a reliable/cheap solution that I can easily source and can easily fit in to a case.I don't really have much interest in keeping it swiss. it would be great to say there's a swiss movement in my custom designed watch, but in reality if this even works, it'll be enough to say I'm wearing a working watch that I designed/made.

Exhibition case back is not a priority, in fact I changed the design slightly as I was getting in to serious territory with o-rings and threads on either end. I thought perhaps a way of negating this would be to make the watch only accessible from the front, and have the case designed as a kind of metal cup, in which you set the movement, face, hands etc and screw on the front. The back thus has just a recess that will accept a disc of metal, etched deep with a design, kind of like the evo-drive Euro versions but with my design and larger. almost a medallion type special thing. Maybe made out of brass or other bright gold/silver metal. But not gold or silver! hehe.

I also thought a lot about how this assembly interacts with a strap, and a suggestion I came up with would be to have the case as a separate, cylindrical metal object. This could then be grasped by 4 fingers/lugs which has the mech for the strap in it. The watch assembly would then have the capability to be separate ( I dare to say it, a pocket watch, although it would be more of a desk watch, if there is such a thing). I've saw an example of an expensive brand doing the whole pocket/wrist combo thing with a pretty fancy contraption to set the pocket watch in the wrist assembly, but my idea would be a semi-permanent thing, i.e. screws would need to be undone to get the watch assembly free from the strap fingers, but the watch case would have no indents/perforations through the shell.

Reasoning behind this is to keep it as simple as possible I guess. It would be easier to get a solid rod of metal machined to my specs (metal cup) than get one made that has holes/places for the lugs to get in to and how that all works, or indeed one machined with the lugs already attached. Instead I would have a solid/robust chunk of round metal with an engine inside, that happens to be gripped by the fingers/lugs.

Does anyone know where I can get proper dimensions for say a sea-gull movement. CAD type elevation dwgs with dims etc?

I am extremely excited about this challenge. I hope I can pull it off.

Any more thoughts?

G


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## LCheapo

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

The ST19 thread I linked had a drawing, which in turn links to a seagull website with drawings for all their movements.
???? Just click on the movement, e.g. ST16 or ST19, and use your intuition (or knowledge of chinese:-d) to click through to the drawings, e.g. http://www.tjseagull.com/wkt/1690.jpg . 
What's the problem with a screw back with O-ring, if you have access to a machine shop? Alternatively you can secure the back with a bunch of small screws, but the screw back is nicer.


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



LCheapo said:


> The ST19 thread I linked had a drawing, which in turn links to a seagull website with drawings for all their movements.
> ???? Just click on the movement, e.g. ST16 or ST19, and use your intuition (or knowledge of chinese:-d) to click through to the drawings, e.g. http://www.tjseagull.com/wkt/1690.jpg .
> What's the problem with a screw back with O-ring, if you have access to a machine shop? Alternatively you can secure the back with a bunch of small screws, but the screw back is nicer.


Hi,

Sorry for the late reply, been working solid for the past week and a half and just tonight got home.

Looked at those dwgs and got them bookmarked.

The problem I guess is my lack of experience with the machining process and assuming that more complexity = more cost.

I did have a back with a bunch of screws arrayed around (8) but I guess I like the idea of having a solid case back, non-removable, like a nice honed 1 piece unit that's tank like, but not tank in size or shape...I don't know.

Having just got my parnis with an exhibition back, I am thinking it would be nice to see the movement, but then again I am all for <money.

I am going to spend the next week (time off in lieu) to get the design formalised and start asking around machine shops for pricing. Will check out all the websites as well.

Thanks again for your initial help, I can tell it's going to be a long process

Night all

G


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hello

Any idea where I can source movements?

Sea-Gull ST25's, ST19

Miyota Mechanicals etc

Also can you confirm Sellita movements are expensive? Is there anything similar?

I am thinking about losing the power reserve and having the 2 chrono dials at 12, 9 and 6, with maybe a date window at 3/day&date if anyone knows of a movement that is like this. I've seen a few but I can't seem to find prices/places that supply.

I am getting the CAD done but I really need to decide on a movement so I can get the thing clamped down.

I stay in Scotland and obviously need delivery to the UK.

Hope you can help

Thanks

G


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## Gordon Fraser

*F-Design - ONE Concept watch*

Hello

I am currently exploring the process of designing and building my own watch using a pre-fab mechanism and various other stock parts, but in a custom designed case.

The thread for the watchmaking side of it is here. This is my first attempt at designing a watch so it's been a bit of an eye-opener.

I thought I would post it up in the WC&D forum to see what you all thought of it.

Dia - 44mm outer excl crown, 22mm lugs, 14mm deep.

The "brief" if you like was to design a really uncluttered watch, one that has the main functions of the watch...time...in the forefront, but have the added facilities there as well. I am a man who likes really sharp, clean lines. I love the Max Bill stuff, Mondaine, Junghans etc.

Front glass is flat sapphire inset from the bezel for protection, same with display back, which is frosted except from the sun-rays and the logo. I am toying with the idea of having ONE deep engraved on the flip side of the crown, but not sure yet.

Finally I might switch out the power reserve for a day/date as I am finding it hard to find a movement that fits this config.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts!

Cheers

Gordon









image © Gordon Fraser 2011


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hi all

Here it is


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## portauto

Love the concept.. that's face is visually striking and unique

The caseback is a bit cluttered for my taste, but I like the frosted glass

Any thoughts to adding some depth to the hand markers, like what you may find on a Luminor?

Kindest Regards,
Portauto


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## brandonsarkis

I'd buy one if the price was right


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## 3ther

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Sorry I can't really contribute to your questions on the build and sourcing parts, but I just wanted to say that the design is gorgeous. Very minimal with a Junghans Max Bill vibe to it. I like! Can't wait to see the finished product!


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



3ther said:


> Sorry I can't really contribute to your questions on the build and sourcing parts, but I just wanted to say that the design is gorgeous. Very minimal with a Junghans Max Bill vibe to it. I like! Can't wait to see the finished product!


Hey

Thanks so much for the feedback 3ther. It's going to be a challenge but I'm really motivated, so should get some progress over the next few weeks re: case machining and lockdown of movements.

I'm currently rolling around the following movements:

ETA 6497 - It's a massive movement and doesn't have any sub dials but its really clean and nice looking. 36.6mm Dia

ETA 7750 - It's nice, has the 3 subs at 12, 9, 6 and a day/date, which would fit the bill perfectly. 30mm Dia.

ETA A07.211 - IF I could afford it, this would be the ideal. Big movement, 3 subs and a date. 36.6mm Dia.

There's a few other ETA's, Sea-Gulls and even a Sollita but its all budget restrictive. Part of me thinks that I should save up and get a proper movement like the ETA's, but then I sit back and think, that I might end up spending £400-500 on this project, and could look like it's hand made, or I could just get a £500 Mondaine and be happy.

But then again, would any one else own my design? Nop.

Updates as things with the machine shop progress.

G


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## mars-red

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



yamyambiker said:


> ETA 6497 - It's a massive movement and doesn't have any sub dials but its really clean and nice looking. 36.6mm Dia


To clarify, the 6497 would normally have one subdial, for the seconds display (there are versions with a truncated fourth wheel pivot, so no seconds are shown though), directly opposite the winding stem (normally 9 o'clock for a wristwatch). The 6498 is the same movement but rearranged for the subdial to appear at 6 o'clock. Neither of those movements have chronograph complications though.


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



mars-red said:


> To clarify, the 6497 would normally have one subdial, for the seconds display (there are versions with a truncated fourth wheel pivot, so no seconds are shown though), directly opposite the winding stem (normally 9 o'clock for a wristwatch). The 6498 is the same movement but rearranged for the subdial to appear at 6 o'clock. Neither of those movements have chronograph complications though.


Hi,

Thanks for this. I was aware of it's pocket watch heritage and it's sub dial. Ideally I would go for the ETA A07.211 but in UK money it's around £400. The 6497 however is around £115, so really I think the option is to make a really simplistic dialled down version with the 1 sundial, no date, and see how this whole thing goes. If it works and I get a fantastic product at the end, then I can really start thinking about the big movements and more elaborate designs. I definitely don't want to spend lots of money and get a dog's breakfast as change.

I still think it will be a nice watch however.

Any other thoughts?

Cheers

G


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## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hey Yamyambiker!

I can't say that I have any extra input to contribute that hasn't already been mentioned, but I would like to say that I really like your design! I would KILL to get as far with a design as you have. I am 21 years old and have been absolutely crazy about mechanical watches for several years now. (I look at the back of my Steinhart Pilot watch to see the 6497 literally more than the face.) I still cannot pinpoint what it is that I am _obsessed _with concerning mechancial watches. All I know is that I wish that I could be a watchmaker and assemble, design, repair, and perfect watches. I want anything and *everything* to do with watches. Unfortunately, it seems very difficult to do this in the U.S. Especially when my aspirations are to live in Switzerland and assemble and designs these functional pieces of art.

My point is: I admire that you have even gotten as far as you have and that you will surely get further to a finished product. I can only hope that one day I will be able to get my ideas out. I truly believe my ideas are so unique and valuable that they would have a special niche in the market as I hope that yours do as well.

I am currently trying to obtain all of the tools to take my Steinhart apart (after I practice on a seagull movement) and skeletonize it and put it back together. I would also like to buy watches and customize them or change them to mechanical movements.

Please keep posting pics and updates of your designs! I would love to see them!

Hopefully with help from this forum we can get closer to making our ideas into realities!

Kyle


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hey, thanks for your kind words Kyle. I've got a degree in product design and I am a rapid prototyper by day, so up till this point I've only really been winging it knowing what I do from these two things. I'm starting to get in to deep water now that the dimensions and tooling are beckoning. but for some reason, unlike other moments when I get out of my depth, I'm sticking with it. Must mean that this is a project that I want to complete this time!

Had a quote back from a machiner and he's wanting circa £400 to machine 3 parts. There must be a cheaper way to do this! Or even a cheaper place. I've emailed about 15 different places so I'll wait till I hear back from all before getting upset.

But

It did lead me in to thinking about another solution to ease manufacturing stages/costs.

Is there any reason why one couldn't design a case to be backloading only? I.e. have the crystal pushed in either front or back, then have everything load in from the back, thus negating the need to get 3 parts made, with the first 2 having fine threads. Thinking about it, if there isn't a really glaring reason not to backload, it would reduce the whole process and remove a joint issue.

It would be a 1 piece shell housing all things, and a case back secured as in render...1 o-ring.

Oh and Outtatime mentioned a friction fit glass system for the front. How does this work in terms of no gasket? My assumption was that the glass would be surrounded with a seal....if not, what's the tolerance for glass friction fit for SS!?

So, backloading and friction fits anyone?

By the way, ETA offer all their DWG's on the website, which in itself is an education. Just brilliant that manufacturers offer this kind of info freely. Everything's on there as well...but then I guess it saves them the hassle of replying to 1,000,000 emails asking for details on this or that movement.

6497 it is for this version, with the .211 for the follow up.

Emailed some dial manufacturers in the UK to see what they are asking.

Many thanks

Gordon


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## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

That's great Gordon! Keep it up! I've also had the same thought/idea about back loading. I hope it works and that you can figure it out! I keep looking at your design which means I'm already sold on it! 

Kyle


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## slikmetalfab

I like it! Count me in. I like the cleanliness of it.

Scott


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## GGN

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I look forward to watching your progress, sir!


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hi all

A wee update:

Finalised the CAD files and have sent them off to a couple of places for an accurate price. The dimensions are now 45mm x 12mm, 22mm Lugs, 8mm Crown. I like the proportions and the whole thing seems balanced.

One thing I've had to compromise a wee bit on is the front fascia, instead of it being a nice 2mm perimeter around the face, it's now a 2mm perimeter with a 1.4mm shallow angle under the glass. I don't think it'll be noticeable but if I wanted to get the face all the way out to the edge I would have to either scrap the backloading assembly or introduce some sort of collar to sit inside the glass. Both of these would require a re-design and more parts which is something I've tried to get down to a minimum. The back loader seems to allow the least amount of machine time - no threads, just 1 barrel turned with a few steps and the case back which clamps everything together when screwed in. I might be wrong but this clamping via the case back should prevent anything from slipping about, especially if I am machining it to fit the movement?

Parts list is the main case, case back, 3 types of lug and a crown. Movement and glass are all going to be sourced from either Cousins or eBay, US websites or other.

Face will either be made by a company or acid etched, same with hands.

I am thinking either a gunmetal/dark grey - matte finish either sandblasted or other, with the white matte face...or dark bronze with either matte or glossy white face.

There's 3 types of lug which are interchangeable. Wrist, Desk and Pocket arrangements. I love the idea of being able to remove the lugs and have 1 small weighty puck of metal. It's a nice thought, having this sliver of smooth unbroken rounded metal, blunt and solid, but housing this phenomenal precision machine, intricate, delicate. If I had a tourbillon or a skeleton watch it would be even better...but that's not what I'm going for here...

By the way, is there any reason not to have a skeleton watch movement but with a face? You get the unobstructed, clean view of time, but with the interest and complexity with the exhibition back? Might be there's no way to mount the face if you skeletonise?

I also have the flexibility to put a chain on and wear it as a pocket watch with my kilt if I wanted to.

I will have an o-ring that goes around the case back male portion and create the seal that way. It might not be able to go meters down, but it will at least prevent any accidental water ingress. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

Pictures below:








This is the older prototype (the new one is printing this evening) so it's 44mm, but it is the right thickness sans lugs. This is also a prototype of the front loading option, which I have discarded in preference to the back loader. Keeps the front cleaner.








44mm looks good, 45mm will look great. I've taken this without the main case part as the steps and back exhibition hole make it look unrealistically far too chunky, whereas this is more like the impression you'll get from the front.








Cad for the case back.








44mm again, showing the thickness and the inner steps. The back loader option has only 2 steps, one to hold the movement/face and another to hold the front glass. The case back has the steps that position the movement and clamp everything together tight.

So there you go!

I will upload photos of the main prototype tomorrow when I clean them. This one has the lugs on and a face to give a better impression of what it will look like. I am excited...but I've realised tonight when I've been doing the CAD revisions that I've made a boo-boo on the main case thickness, which will make the case back sit too far out.

This is what prototyping is for I guess, to get everything smoothed out before you push go on the metal fab.

Crown has my new logo on it and I have removed the ridge/dent so it's one smooth crown to reflect the case simplicity.

I am really hoping that this will not only be a great looking watch, but a really nice object that you can hold in your hand and really appreciate the qualities of material and finish. So many of my watches in my box are nice to look at but feel...cheap. Whether its weight or finish or...I don't know.

But I do know that, for example, my Alessi Apostrophe orange peeler has a beautiful feel to it when you hold it in your hand, and that's what I'm aiming for in this watch, a nice object when you hold it. A nicer object when you wear it.

It's been a really great learning experience this.

Any thoughts..on anything? What about shock protection? Needed?

Cheers

G


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## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I would kill to be doing what you are doing right now! it is AWESOME that you are actually making serious advancements with your idea! I love the look you are going for with a minimal bezel so you can have more crystal/face. It just makes for a unique look that really hasn't been done WELL yet. As for skeletonizing, I would imagine that you still COULD attach a face even if skeletonized. I love the idea of having a full face with a skeletonized movement to be able to see from the back. This is what I will eventually be doing to my Steinhart or even better - to a watch I've made like you are doing. I want to take ETA 6497/8's customize them and put them into existing watches or into an entirely unique case (Like Kudoke Watches) but focus more on a unique case, handmade hands, and dial. So, if you know how, I say you should skeletonize one and pop it in! at least as a side project to see how it turned out. Heck, I'd even buy one of your first watches and do it to the movement once I am able to do so! At the very least I think a few of the main pieces of the movement that are visible through the back should be skeletonized (just leave the main plate untouched perhaps).

As for the face and hands, I have always thought it would be awesome to have a sort of heavy sand-blasted, almost rough, micro dented look on the hands with a very matte look in black or dark gray. (Imagine a cast iron sort of texture with zero shine). I also imagine just the top portion of the hand that looks like a formal #1 to stand out and be a different color - either white, lighter gray, (maybe even red?) if the other hands are black, dark gray, etc. Obviously, there are many different combinations to be had and all would look great in matte. With hands like this, I really like the idea of a matte textured white face. This is sort of a U-boat texture which I really like.

I really can't wait to see your prototype! I really admire your work and design style and hope I can do exactly what you are doing some day soon.

Keep updating and post what you will do with the face/hands color and texture!


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hello

As promised the official first prototype is done. I've gave the face a lick of primer to differentiate it from the case (and it was translucent due to it being 0.4mm thin so needed some solidifying).

1 or 2 big developments tonight - will come to that after:








The hand posts were a quick last minute addition, which is why the second post is too far south.














Looks fabulous on the wrist I think. Not too big, not too small. I also quite like the material/aesthetic quality with the white face and case. Makes me think that perhaps the face should also be made from SS or Titanium to make it almost appear to be hewn from a single block of steel.







I used a 21mm wriststrap from a Jaques LeMans. It doesn't quite fit the 22mm lug width and highlighted one of the big problems...see below. But when it was on, it sat perfectly on the wrist.








The new logo on the crown.

First main problem was that the lug joints - when attached to a strap and put in a wee bit of tension - snapped. This is inherent in the material on the RP machine, but it also made me question my sizing for what is the main joint from strap to watch. So I'm having a big re-think about that whole junction.









Second issue or thought was on the whole bezel and it's slope. As I travelled home tonight in the car, with the Mrs asleep, I thought about the general form of the watch and began thinking about how to make a flush crown.

However now, as I type this and see the above wrist shot...I think I need the crown. Will investigate anyway.

Thanks for reading.

G


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I Like your idea about making the dial out of SS to make it seem like one big piece. or you could make the dial white and paint the 1.4mm lip white as well to make THAT piece at least seem apart of the dial as well - though it would make the markers a bit away from the edge of the watch which might look odd or might look good? It looks great and the way it looks as one big solid piece is really cool.

As for the crown, I personally love crowns that are flipped to the left side of the watch, especially since I wear mine on my left hand like many do. It feels much better when it isn't digging into my wrist! and for those that would wear it on their right, they would just get the normal feel that a left-wearer would get. Could you make the crown partially embedded into the watch? maybe have a small niche under the crown you could get a nail into to pop it out and set the time? then once popped back in, it would be practically if not fully flush with the case? Just an idea!

Thanks for the update! keep it comin!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I've cracked it.

Face right to the edge, bezel thin, elegant, and the whole thing will be like a solid chunk of metal. It's beautiful. Face details are still sparse but I've had an idea which I'm not sharing... And the finish will be sublime if it can be achieved.

I need to get in touch with ETA to get a movement price.

Crown is still big but it's not going to be flush. I like that it's out now.

Maybe something to consider for TWO.

11.5mm x 44mm dia, still 22mm lugs. Scrapped the idea of having interchangeable lugs though, too risky and clunky I feel. Again, something for TWO.

I've always worn my watch on the left...and the crown has always been on the right. It feels natural for me to have it that way. But I get your point about it not digging in to your wrist. But I assume that the crown is on the right if you are right handed so you can wind it/change it easier whilst on the wrist?

Hmm

Interesting.

But I've spent the best part of tonight getting the CAD sorted, for tomorrow I'm going to the online CNC milling place to get a proper quote. Not heard back from the independent machiners. Annoying.

Prototype 2 will be printing tomorrow as well.

Night all,

G


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I'm completely jealous of you. I wish i was doing exactly what you are. but I want to work more with the movements as well. I'd like to skeleton a 6497 and mount it into ONE. That'd be gorgeous! can't wait to see it in metal!


----------



## neurogenesis

I'd rotate the graphics on the back 90 degrees counter-clockwise, because people will photograph it crown up.

I like it.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

If it was easy, anyone could do it...and it's not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

Progress

I've got some pretty encouraging quotes from various places around Scotland for the milling work. The design in it's current state is 100% mill based and will require 3 parts to be machined - Case, Case Back and Crown. I've sourced and purchased all of my stock parts - movement, glass, seals, case back screws. Any movement rings or adjustments can be printed on my RP. Hands are being custom made using acid etching on SS or Nickel.

I'm unbelievably excited about this, but I have to keep reminding myself that this is ultimately an indulgence. Perhaps if the outcome is as sublime as I want it to be people will want them too, but at the end of the day if I end up with just 1 watch and an experience I will be happy.

But for those interested, I _have_ thought about it I will be doing my best to get the infrastructure in place to potentially take these in to production. Thoughts currently are:

That the ONE SS will be an open edition using the ETA 6498-1 movement. But in the interests of being that wee bit more special, there will be a limited run of 25-30 titanium versions featuring the ETA 6498-2 movement and a few more special things over the base version. I am a realist however so these 2 versions will always be very limited runs.

I've spoken to custom strap maker in the UK and he's going to help me out with the straps. This will be a 90% UK produced watch, with only the movement and glass being manufactured outside UK shores. I might even put Made in Scotland on the case.... 

Costings are still getting compiled but expect somewhere in the loose region of £800 for the ONE SS and £1500 for the ONE TT Limited Edition. I'm getting together the complete package contents i.e. box/case, straps, included accessories etc and get a cost nailed down. Again limited run = increased cost to manufacture but also = increased rarity. Looking further ahead, my TWO watch will probably house the A07.211 movement putting the price really up in to the stratosphere...There's a lot to be said for non-mass produced products and I personally think that having a product produced in Scotland is a lot more appealing than a generic or blueprint case made by the millions. But then again, there's a lot going for spending that amount of money on a tried, tested and loved product. It's all in what value we place on things I guess!

Anyway as I said at the start, if all I get out this is a 1 of a kind watch that I can wear with pride, I would want for nothing else. If people want my product, then I will do everything I can to support that demand.

Pictures of the latest resin prototype for your consideration.

























Thanks

Gordon


----------



## James_

I like it and would consider buying it. The hour hand is a bit fast. Watch that you aren't infringing on Formula 1 with your name!

Oh and about the poll... I think it depends on the quality of materials and movement you use, amongst other things.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Hi James, 


Thanks for your comment



I realised this when I was coming up with a name! F-One.... It's still called the ONE but not F-Design anymore, so I should be OK.




Hour hand is a bit fast isn't it!! Thanks for pointing that out. Silly photoshop mistake.




RE: the poll, what materials would you expect in a watch that commands say a $5000 price tag, just for interests sake?




Thanks again


Gordon


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hi all

Just a quick update,

Finished all the manufacturing drawings and they are looking great. Also finished a final render.

I am now in the process of getting prices back for 1 of and 25 of in both steel, titanium and aluminium (for my control/test piece). So far it's looking promising. It's just a job finding places that are willing to do proper small batch work. Most say they can on their website, you get in touch and they fob you off. Of course the cost of manufacturing these cases depends on how many you get made, more made, cheaper price. I will wait to get the control proto before I start asking people if they want them, but I think as long as my requirements are met, this will be one really nice piece.

Got prices back from ETA for their movements which is great. I was wondering about people on WUS who modify movements, not in the way of skeletonising them but in the way of perhaps plating or coating all the bits a colour i.e. black? I think I would try and get a blackout version, because that would be fapping gorgeous. Black case, a bright colour for the digits and blacked out movement, with maybe the balance wheel or something else remaining in gold.

I might post this as a separate thread.

I'm excited.

For those interested, the case and face are milled from one block, with the case back and crown being the other parts. These are all bead blasted to give a uniform matte but sparkling look.

Minute hand is blue in the render but I'm not sure what to do yet. The numerals and logos have the potential to be any colour as well.

Many thanks.

Gordon


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hey Gordon,

Your watch looks AWESOME! cannot wait to see the final thing! One blog I found made me think that this modified 6497 would look awesome in your watch. Especially since you have gone the sand-blasting route. Check out this guy's sand blasted and modified 6497 HERE. scroll down and through the blog and find his pics of individual gears and the movement after it has been blasted and rhodiumed black. A very cool and industrialized look that I will be doing once I have perfected skeletonizing and other mods. I definitely think this is the look you should put into your watches. Even with just blasting it and not skeletonizing it, it would look gorgoeus!

Thanks for the update!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hi Kyle

thanks for your reply,

Yep, I am in total agreement, a sand blasted movement would not only compliment the watch, but make the whole thing, not just the case, look like it's carved from one block of metal, something which I would find unbelievably sublime.

If only I knew of someone who could disassemble a 6498 movement and blast it for me....

G


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I hope you find someone to do it for you! Eventually I want to be able to do it. Once I go through the TZ courses I will practice skeletonizing, sand-blasting, decorating/polishing and black electroplating movements. I would love to customize movements in my own way with my ideas and put them into watches like yours! I wish I could do this far ya, but I am not there yet ... Soon though! I wish I could have some part in doing this for your watch!

Keep it up!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

So

I've contacted pretty much everyone under the sun, from UK, USA, China to Switzerland and Germany and every single person has either said "Yeah we can do it, but its going to cost £6000" or others who flat out reject it.

My last port of call before re-addressing how these are made is to a place called Fricker. German based, their entrance tagline is "For more than 30 years , Fricker GmbH & Co. KG has been an industry leader in the manufacturing of watchcases as well as the production of wristwatches...Quality, flexibility and competence are the quintessence of our company and the tradition of our house."

So I am desperately holding on to receiving a reply from them.

Otherwise it's a step back and see where to go next job.

I'm not put off, no way. I just want to get this thing on the road and it's proving difficult.

I need to speak to the forum owners, but I am considering opening an interested list to those who would purchase. It might be the only way to get these to market, as getting low batches is astronomical.

Onward!

G


----------



## James_

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Maybe you could buy some ready made watch cases but treat them yourself. Cerakoat them as standard or something.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



James_ said:


> Maybe you could buy some ready made watch cases but treat them yourself. Cerakoat them as standard or something.


Hi James, thanks for the reply. A fellow Scotsman no less!

The whole point of this project is to make the case and fit a quality movement in to it, so purchasing a ready made case defeats it. Cerakoat I've seen that on the forum but it was a US guy that did it? Do you know of places here that offer that service?

I'm not even close to giving up on the custom made route. I've got many quotes and offers but it's just getting it all whittled down to what is ultimately the cheapest or best way to do it. So far it's been neither.

Anyway, wouldn't mind some feedback on the following options. I know what one(s) I like, use the render above for material:









Received the parts from CousinsUK today, a selection of glass and hands, some gaskets and spring bars. The fundamental success, visually and ergonomically, of this timepiece will be the material choice and having seen the different glasses and the various caustics they shed on the face, I can't help but be totally convinced by how nice this will look. Joy in the simplest of things. Enhance material aesthetics through the quality and variance of light.

However a fully lumed unequivocally legible dive watch this is not. It's more an elegant, unobtrusive watch, that offers legible time, but look closer and you see the detail.

I am thinking of ways to lume the face and I have an idea to place a lumed surface between the movement and the unibody face so that in effect you have lumed digits through the holes.

Or I'll just keep it proper raw like.

Oh and I'm considering having domed glass on the exhibition, not just because it's cool...but it also elevates the case, when strapped, to bring it just above the skin making it really comfortable to wear. I can see the problems with laying it down on surfaces, but a little bit of care should see it not being a problem. It also has a small element of magnification which should bring something else to the rear.

Thoughts?

G


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I like the look/layout of the upper far left corner design. I like how the sub seconds indicator looks best as well. the only thing I would change is the size of the word "one" to be larger like the examples on the right. I think it would be REALLY cool to have a numerical '1' as the seconds hand in your blue color as well. as for lume, I imagine a U-boat look again. specifically, a sandwiched looking face so that the indicators, the word "one", and the logo are all recessed below the rest of the face and then put a blue lume in them (maybe this is what you already had in mind?). This would offer depth, detail, elegance and character without sacrificing the unobtrusive appeal of the watch!

Will the crystal be totally flat/edgeless on the face so that it is totally flush with the bezel? - this is just what I imagine it to have. Of course with sapphire to really give it a finally touch of class and elegance. But don't put AR coating on the sapphire. I rather like the look of the multi-color glare that the sapphire puts off! otherwise, it just looks too plain without that blue hint from the sapphire.

Also, a quick thing I noticed in your previous pictures was the lugs. They sort of rest high off the wrist leaving a bit of a gap. could you possibly angle the lugs down so that they flow more with the curve of the wrist?

Just my thoughts!

Thanks!


----------



## dacattoo

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Your first step in my estimation is to take a deep breath and pour another cup of tea. Your questions are more answers than anything. You may have all the equipment and technology at hand, but you are severely lacking in the most important element, knowledge. I suggest you embark on an intensive study of watchmaking for the next several months. Answer all the questions you asked yourself. Become knowledgable about all the aspects you don't have a clue about. Not only will your watch turn out better, the experience be more enriching, the obstacles not seem overwhelming but you will have learned some things only a very small number of people in the whole world understand. Knowledge is the most valuable tool in your toolbox. Best of luck


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hi Dacattoo

Thanks for your advice, its sound at that.

I thought my only problems were how and where to manufacture a case, but it seems I might be overlooking things. Do you have an suggestions of where to start?

I am of the school of trying things and if they don't work try again. Having the ability to print an RP part in a matter of hours allows me to quickly check and cross off things.

But I will contemplate your suggestion over the weekend and the holidays.

Thanks again

Gordon


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

For what it's worth Gordon, you have gotten further and progressed more than many people could by doing it the way you have. I think you will get your desired product in the end just the way you are doing it... knowledge is in experience, experience comes from trying, doing, practicing, and mostly, the errors. Plus, knowledge can't be attained without asking questions and getting answers...

Keep doin what you're doin! I'm sure you'll get it done and it will turn out how you've envisioned!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



KyleA said:


> I like the look/layout of the upper far left corner design. I like how the sub seconds indicator looks best as well. the only thing I would change is the size of the word "one" to be larger like the examples on the right. I think it would be REALLY cool to have a numerical '1' as the seconds hand in your blue color as well. as for lume, I imagine a U-boat look again. specifically, a sandwiched looking face so that the indicators, the word "one", and the logo are all recessed below the rest of the face and then put a blue lume in them (maybe this is what you already had in mind?). This would offer depth, detail, elegance and character without sacrificing the unobtrusive appeal of the watch!
> 
> Will the crystal be totally flat/edgeless on the face so that it is totally flush with the bezel? - this is just what I imagine it to have. Of course with sapphire to really give it a finally touch of class and elegance. But don't put AR coating on the sapphire. I rather like the look of the multi-color glare that the sapphire puts off! otherwise, it just looks too plain without that blue hint from the sapphire.
> 
> Also, a quick thing I noticed in your previous pictures was the lugs. They sort of rest high off the wrist leaving a bit of a gap. could you possibly angle the lugs down so that they flow more with the curve of the wrist?
> 
> Just my thoughts!
> 
> Thanks!


Kyle!

You're enthusiasm is contagious.

I agree with the top left, but I also think the bottom right would be nice too. Maybe even get the logo engraved on the left side of the case?

Blue lume sounds like a great idea. My thinking was just that, have the face - separate layer of lume - movement.

Regarding the crystal, I initially had the flat crystal, but now having seen the domed/flat bottom crystal, I think I will try for that because of the way it distorts what's beneath it. Adds a wee bit more interest perhaps. The crystal sits about 0.8mm beneath the bezel surface so the effect is a recessed edge and a dome arching out from the bezel. Looks really lush! plus it will hopefully reduce the risk of chipping the edge if it gets dinged (done that before...really annoying) I've also looked for sapphire that fits my size (40mm dia) but CousinsUK don't stock it. I will investigate as they way you describe it sounds brilliant.

As for the lugs, there's a reason they are that way and that is machining, but I get your point and will think about this more. If you imagine a flat plate of 10mm thickness that then gets machined/milled down to make the case, I would have to look at getting a thicker bit to compensate for this angle, then there's more material to remove etc. It's either that or get them made separate and find a way to then attach them to the case.

This would be good for several reasons, you could get the case turned as one object instead of milled, the lugs could be removed to make a pocket watch etc. I did explore this earlier in the thread, but decided against it due to the number of parts it would eventually end up being (4 lugs, or 12 lugs if you take the 3 options for watch, pocket watch, desk watch, plus case, case back, crown.)

What do you think about perhaps incorporating the strap in to the case and get rid of the lugs entirely?

Final thoughts were that the bead blasted surface is the finish I want, but I wonder how resistant it is to scratches or perhaps wearing it will eventually make it shiny? I don't think it would but even if it did, would it be a bad thing? Almost like those Nixon watches that are coated in that paint that's designed to flake off so ultimately you end up with a watch that's unique...until they all flake off completely and you've got the same watch! haha.

Got a wee bit further forward on the machining front today so am upbeat.

thanks everyone for all comments, it's a lot to think about and its usually best to get balanced feedback. I definitely need to take a breather, but I'm not wanting to create a movement, just the stuff around it, so I hope my experience will help me get through that.

More updates as things change.

Cheers

Gordon


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I can imagine exactly how the crystal is setting on the inside of the bezel and making it an edgeless crystal. Very cool! I love the look that the domed sapphire makes with magnification, and as I said with the blue glare. Tourby watches has a very wonderful blue glare to them that yours needs as well. Keep experimenting with the shapes of the crystals!

The engraving of the logo/brand name on the side would be awesome! Since the dial and case are so simple, you can play around with other details of the watch and add features like that to it!

I see your point about the lugs. It must be pretty tricky to get the look, feel and size of everything you want, but at the same time making sure it is machinable. Check out the Uhr-Kraft watch I own HERE - it is *53mm* large and as you can see, the lugs are bolted into a niche in the case. Again, something I'm sure you could possibly figure out and incorporate into your piece. This is still the most comfortable watch I own. It wraps SEAMLESSLY around my wrist and the large 24mm band makes it awesome! But, like you say, it's a lot about ease of manufacturing. Just wanted to share with you in case it gave you any help/ideas!

Is this what you mean by doing away with the lugs? Pita watches
Or like this? Xetum Watches
This might also be cool! There are infinite ideas out there! I just wish I could get a few of my own out !

As far as the sand blasted durability, I really don't know. I imagine it lasting as long as any other. I mean, does a brushed steel watch every become shiny or lose its brushed look? Not really haha But I definitely see what you mean. I guess it would just have to be an experiment that will take years to get the answer to really. OR do a *DLC* coating. DLC is AMAZINGLY strong and durable (but it's black). Look it up if this is new to you! It also creates a great matte look on its own, but coupled with a sandblasted texture? I can only imagine the awesomeness! 

Cheers


----------



## 3ther

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Just my two cents, but I REALLY like the design on the top left as well. I think it's simple, but I really like the One being written out at the 1 o'clock position. I think if you bumped up the size of 'ONE' slightly (not as big as the top right), it'd be perfect!

Best of luck to you, man. If I could offer more than my own opinion on aesthetics, I'd do it in a heartbeat.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Thanks 3ther.

I agree, a bigger ONE would be better, and it would also make fabrication easier too.

I'm compiling costings for getting 100 made, 75 SS and 25 Titanium so will update as and when.

Cheers

Gordon


----------



## slikmetalfab

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Gordon,

I am in the process of having my design made. After lots of shops, I was able to find one with the precision to make it. Hit me up with an email and I will gladly help you out with some quotes and what-not.

ALso, for your design, check out www.henrywatch.com this is very similar to what you are constructing right now and its finish is in the "raw" state.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



slikmetalfab said:


> Gordon,
> 
> I am in the process of having my design made. After lots of shops, I was able to find one with the precision to make it. Hit me up with an email and I will gladly help you out with some quotes and what-not.
> 
> ALso, for your design, check out www.henrywatch.com this is very similar to what you are constructing right now and its finish is in the "raw" state.


Hi Scott

Thanks for your message.

I've emailed you re: the shop.

I've seen the Henry Watch, it was on Kickstarter. He's done amazingly well to get the amount of funding like that! We can only dream to ask for $100 and get £140,000!

However even though our ideas are similar in profile, I am hoping that my design will look a bit more refined, elegant and less chunky/raw.

But I am so jealous that he's had that amount of interest/investment so much so he has a CNC machine to fab all his own stuff. Brilliant position to be in!

A lot of hard work on my part will get me where I want to be, I know it.

All the best,

Gordon


----------



## dacattoo

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

There are several examples of watches in history that are "front loading". In other words they have no removable back. You remove the crystal and the take the movement out the top. As to using a 6497, it has proven itself for about 60 years to be a workhorse but most movement you will find are not very pretty. If you have an exposition back this may be an issue. I have seen one with the balance cock and bridges made in aluminum (custom) and anodized red and blue. 
Michael


----------



## dacattoo

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

There are several examples of watches in history that are "front loading". In other words they have no removable back. You remove the crystal and the take the movement out the top. As to using a 6497, it has proven itself for about 60 years to be a workhorse but most movement you will find are not very pretty. If you have an exposition back this may be an issue. I have seen one with the balance cock and bridges made in aluminum (custom) and anodized red and blue. 
Michael


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hello

Thanks for the messages. I've been thinking a lot about my design and I think I'm slowly homing in on what it will finally be. Manufacturers are slow to reply but when they do it brings this whole thing closer to production so I'm happy.

NOT as happy as I was 10 minutes ago when I found this:








image from the Jochen Benzinger website.

Earlier in this thread I discussed how my perfect movement for this watch would be blacked out static parts and highlighted moving parts. Well look at that top movement. I almost wept with joy. It's so perfect that I have emailed Mr Benzinger for a price, and will, if this all goes to plan, be saving up to put this in my own version of the ONE. A successfully realised grail watch it would become.

I just can't believe how close to my vision this is. It's actually quite disconcerting...but then it's good because someone else had that idea and made it a reality.

Brilliant.

Hope you are all looking forward to the fast approaching Christmas break. I know I am!

All the best to you,

Gordon


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Wow, those are gorgeous! I'm glad you found what you are looking for! They look perfect!

Once you have this all said and done, Maybe I could buy just a machined case and dial(since it will all be one part anyway) from you so that I can customize it even more still with hand-made hands and custom 6497! That would be awesome! Keep us updated!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*
















©

Merry Christmas.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

© Fraser Timepiece 2011

Update to the design. I am in the process of getting production details together for the ONE 6498 version, but this would probably be the follow on - the ONE Chrono which brings it back around to the initial concept sketch.

What do you think?

Gordon


----------



## Wellington

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

nice job. What were the final dimensions of the movement you will be using? 30mm? 36mm? Also, if you ever found those drawings that ETA offers to customers, could you put a link up or something. Im interested in that, but could not find them on their website.


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Wow, that is gorgeous. Beauty is in simplicity. those yellow (geen?) hands really pop in a great and yet subtle way. An all gray body and different shade of gray for the minute and hour looks great. I love how even the date indicator is frayed and styled to match the whole thing. It truly is simple and beautiful.

For some reason (and this may be weird) but it reminds me of architects blue prints or some sort of instrument used by architects? I'm not sure why, but ARCHITECT just stands out in describing the look and style of the watch.. Very very cool chrono! I'd be first in line if I could afford it !

What drawings do you mean? Are they the enlarged technical specs of their movements that I've seen skeletonizers use to draw out their planned design? If so, I've been wondering where the heck to get these drawings as well!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Thanks to you both,

ETA Customer Portal has all you could ever want.

https://secure.eta.ch/CSP/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=2&tabid=28

This will be the one that follows on from the ONE...but is still a ONE...not a TWO...if you get me! hehe.

Gordon


----------



## CamMan

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I am a bit confused as to what your final goal is. In post #45 you talk about how perfect that movement would be in your watch but in post #47 you show us a rendering of a watch with a chronograph complication which the ETA 6498 (shown in post #45) does not have. I like your enthusiasm but as dacattoo said:



> Your first step in my estimation is to take a deep breath and pour another cup of tea. Your questions are more answers than anything. You may have all the equipment and technology at hand, but you are severely lacking in the most important element, knowledge. I suggest you embark on an intensive study of watchmaking for the next several months. Answer all the questions you asked yourself. Become knowledgable about all the aspects you don't have a clue about. Not only will your watch turn out better, the experience be more enriching, the obstacles not seem overwhelming but you will have learned some things only a very small number of people in the whole world understand. Knowledge is the most valuable tool in your toolbox. Best of luck


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



CamMan said:


> I am a bit confused as to what your final goal is. In post #45 you talk about how perfect that movement would be in your watch but in post #47 you show us a rendering of a watch with a chronograph complication which the ETA 6498 (shown in post #45) does not have. I like your enthusiasm but as dacattoo said:


Thanks for the message,

as per the post directly above yours,



> Thanks to you both,
> 
> ETA Customer Portal has all you could ever want.
> 
> https://secure.eta.ch/CSP/DesktopDef...dex=2&tabid=28
> 
> *This will be the one that follows on from the ONE...but is still a ONE...not a TWO...if you get me! hehe.*
> 
> Gordon


The chrono is the second stage of my goals.

The main goal in this whole thing is to get the 6498 watch in production.

Regards

Gordon


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

p.s.

The intensive study of watchmaking is already underway. :-!

All the best

Gordon


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I am unbelievably excited for the ONE to be done and finished! Your project gives me serious inspiration!

My copy of George Daniels' book is on its way! I can't wait to immerse myself in it!


----------



## stevend101

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Yamyambiker,

Im not sure where you are with the machining of the prototype case but in the past I used an Edinburgh company to produce stainless steel fittings manufactured to very tight tolerances and they were receptive to producing one off items. You mention that you currently work for an architects practice so if you are based in the central belt of Scotland I could point you in the direction of some of their work. For myself they manufactured spider fittings for bolted glass as well as tension rod connectors which require both internal and external threads not dissimilar to a watch case. I used to keep some examples of their work on my desk cause theres nothing like an engineered precision sculpture in stainless steel as a paper weight. Might be worth a look anyway so I have provided the details below.

Lazer Engineering (Scotland) Ltd.
Unit 5,
Newhailes Industrial Estate,
Musselburgh,
EH21 6SY

Tel: 0131 6533500
Fax: 0131 6653800
Email: [email protected]

Looking forward to the next instalment!

Steve


----------



## CADstraps

Wow - really like the new iteration. Lime on grey is an awesome combo, and I've got the perfect strap mapped out for it. Looks like you've moved to a sandblasted finish on the case, very cool. That signatuire is just a watermark to copyright the image, right? Not part of the dial? 

I am confused with the 9 o'clock sub dial - why does it start at 4?


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



stevend101 said:


> Yamyambiker,
> 
> Im not sure where you are with the machining of the prototype case but in the past I used an Edinburgh company to produce stainless steel fittings manufactured to very tight tolerances and they were receptive to producing one off items. You mention that you currently work for an architects practice so if you are based in the central belt of Scotland I could point you in the direction of some of their work. For myself they manufactured spider fittings for bolted glass as well as tension rod connectors which require both internal and external threads not dissimilar to a watch case. I used to keep some examples of their work on my desk cause theres nothing like an engineered precision sculpture in stainless steel as a paper weight. Might be worth a look anyway so I have provided the details below.
> 
> Lazer Engineering (Scotland) Ltd.
> Unit 5,
> Newhailes Industrial Estate,
> Musselburgh,
> EH21 6SY
> 
> Tel: 0131 6533500
> Fax: 0131 6653800
> Email: [email protected]
> 
> Looking forward to the next instalment!
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve,

Thanks for the heads up! I will give them a call tomorrow and have a chat. I work at the west end so am close enough to Musselburgh to nip down if I need to. I agree about the paper weights! Because we get tonnes of samples in, there's always stuff hanging around that in isolation are beautiful objects. We had an example of a solar shader in the other week and it was like a giant drill bit, 4ft long. A beautiful sculpture in it's own right but might be lost when put on a building.

It's also the reason that the ONE watches are the way they are. I see so many samples of ways metal can be treated to celebrate the material itself, its not surprising my timepieces lean heavily on the beauty of material rather than the beauty and visual impact of say a rose turned face.

Anyway,

Thanks again and will update once things have been resolved.

All the best

Gordon


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Hi CADStraps


Thanks for the message.


The sig is just a watermark you're right. Not part of the face.


The 9 o'clock sub starts at 4 because I'm an idiot and photoshopped this at midnight last night... It's meant to be a the hour sub and thus a 4 hour max, but why it starts at 4 is beyond me... The 4 would have been at the 9'oclock position on the sub but the longer slit is taking that place...so really what I'm getting at here is that I'm an idiot and forgive me?


The lime/beadblast is a personal favourite. I've got a bunch of other combos but this one is the ONE....see what I did there?



Fancy sharing the strap combo?


Cheers


Gordon


----------



## dacattoo

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

A selection from my library that would expand your knowledge of your endeavor. The first is one of the most famous horology books in print "Saunier's Treatise on Modern Horology" written in 1861 and still considered the bible of sorts of horology. The second is the WOSTEP textbook " The Theory of Horology". The second, third and forth are well respected works on complicated watches. The fifth is a solid textbook from the Joseph Bulova school of watchmaking. I recommend this book to all those amateurs out there as it is very clearly written and understandable.
It is often available on the internet. The sixth is required reading by *all* watch enthusiasts. It was also a film on PBS i believe. The story of the watch and the watchmaker that made the first watch accurate enough to determine longitude. After reading it, go to the Royal Observatory in London and see the actual watches. The last is one of several books written by Donald deCarle, a treasure of information on complicated watches. 
He also wrote number three. Read and understand all these and we will call you _ Master._


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



dacattoo said:


> A selection from my library that would expand your knowledge of your endeavor. The first is one of the most famous horology books in print "Saunier's Treatise on Modern Horology" written in 1861 and still considered the bible of sorts of horology. The second is the WOSTEP textbook " The Theory of Horology". The second, third and forth are well respected works on complicated watches. The fifth is a solid textbook from the Joseph Bulova school of watchmaking. I recommend this book to all those amateurs out there as it is very clearly written and understandable.
> It is often available on the internet. The sixth is required reading by *all* watch enthusiasts. It was also a film on PBS i believe. The story of the watch and the watchmaker that made the first watch accurate enough to determine longitude. After reading it, go to the Royal Observatory in London and see the actual watches. The last is one of several books written by Donald deCarle, a treasure of information on complicated watches.
> He also wrote number three. Read and understand all these and we will call you _ Master._


Hi Decattoo

Thanks so much for this comprehensive list of reading material, it definitely looks like the perfect library to have if you are going to be dealing with the movements themselves. I will absolutely have a look.

All the best to you and yours,

Gordon


----------



## dacattoo

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Speaking of the best and Scotland, this usually goes well with reading any of the selections.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



dacattoo said:


> Speaking of the best and Scotland, this usually goes well with reading any of the selections.
> View attachment 583558


Ha, yep you're on the right lines now. Christmas for me this year will be spent on the West Coast, a cottage on the edge of Loch Fyne.

Daniels is coming with me and there'll be plenty of singles to keep us going. Good times.

Cheers

Gordon


----------



## dacattoo

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Cheers

Michael


----------



## CADstraps

I'd have to say you're only an idiot if you're not willing to own up to a mistake, so let's just chalk it up to human error. 

If that were my watch, I would go one of 2 ways with the strap (and most likely eventually both, and switch from time to time - those bars look heavier than the spring kind, so if they were screw-in strap bars, changing straps would be easy). 

1. stay somewhat simple to match the watch, but draw out accents in the stitching. Perhaps a base consisting of several layers of pure lambskin, made from a single strip, so the edges are rolled. 3 lines of stitch, with no visible termination; 2 in matching lime on the edges, and then a 3rd of pure white hugging one of the lines of lime, most likely on the side away from the chrono dials. I might even consider taking a darker shade of grey and stitching your logo in as well. Finish with a matching sand blasted locking deployment.
2. get with some dedicated grains or textures to contrast with the watch. Like a shades-of-grey snakeskin or grey ostrich leg. Stitch in lime only, but in a closed or boxed pattern. Finish in a sand blasted buckle with some substance, maybe a pre-v style or heavy ardillon.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Happy New Year all,

Hope you all had a great holiday. Back to the grind tomorrow :-| :rodekaart

2012 should be an interesting year!

Stay tuned.

Gordon


----------



## Shawny

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Nice piece, hope to heard you soon. Keep it up!


----------



## sciguy77

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Gordon,

Congrats on your progress, I've been working on something similar.

For the case on my watch I'm just 3D printing in metal. It's not super cheap but its definitely cost effective compared to the quotes you've been getting. A company called Materialize can 3D print in metal, and so can ShapeWays (the former is likely more costly but higher quality).

Btw, isn't it fun having a 3D printer on hand? The last two summers I've worked as a programmer at a BioTech company in San Francisco that used 'em and they were a blast. This summer if I get a job I've applied for I'll be able to use a $700,000 3D printer after hours and on weekends!

Good luck!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Morning all,

Thanks for your messages.

sciguy77 - its brilliant having access to tech that allows you to have a physical version of your idea in your hand in the space of 3-4 hours. It's just incredible how much quicker you can work if you are able to make an actual full scale prototype of a design and strap it on to your wrist to see what it feels like, what the proportions are like etc etc.

I started this thread off with asking the question about 3D printing my design and the intricacies of doing so - tolerance etc...but instead of fabricating it myself, what I've done instead is approached a proper manufacturer in Germany and looked at it that way.

There will be an announcement soon as things are being finalised. But I can't say any more at the mo, forum rules. I will say that the WUS members will be at the very core of it.

All the best

Gordon

|>


----------



## Bruno.M

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Very nice..

I'm kind of technical myself and even though I'm not that big of a watch-guy as most of you here (I love them, want to buy them all but have enough reason not to, I am in that stage that I can still control myself ), but I would definitely be able to "forgive" myself in taking on a challenge such as this. I just done a huge project which put me in contact with multiple 3D-printing (had a húge 1,5m model of the car I designed RP'ed, that was a (expensive ;x) blast ) and CNC-milling firms, so why not use those contacts, hm... I've actually been looking into watchmaking books the last couple of days, this thread is very inspiring! What CAD software are you using by the way (not that it's of much importance). I have spent hours, days, weeks in CATIA, the big sis of SolidWorks, but I'm thinking of going for it's more staightforward little brother now. Also, I just installed TellWatch, CAD software for watches, you know that? I'm gonna look into that now.

I'm afraid though that I may get superexcited in designing and prototyping a watch, but that I will fail utterly when adjusting the movement starts getting involved..

I'm keeping an eye on this thread, watch looks FABULOUS!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hey Bruno

Thanks for the message,

Yeah the time has come to put all my experience to good use and make something of myself. If I don't do it now I never will.

I use primarily AutoCAD for the technicals and 3D Studio Max with Mental Ray for the vis, wee bit photoshop if needed. Tickled Rhino for a while for the more free form protos I was working on. Mainly Autodesk stuff.

I am very excited about what is to come, please stay tuned!

All the best from baltic Scotland...

Gordon ;-)


----------



## Bruno.M

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Thought about it some more, and was thinking of going to SolidWorks for rendering, but it's a shame not to use my CATIA-experience, and want to get started asap. Couldn't sleep this night because I kept thinking about "my watch" :') Made production steps and everything. I want to make a cheap watch, possibly even produce it myself. The mills in our workshop have been moved, so I can't start till halfway February, but I'm gonna try and get drawings, ideas, and build-knowledge in order by that time (plus I have exams as well ;p). First drawings will be finished tonight probably, but I don't want to open a thread yet before I made an actual feasibility study so I don't make a fool of myself :')


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Sometimes a little embarrassment gives way to something special.

My announcement might bomb...but unless I try I won't ever know. I'm really hoping it won't bomb because what I am planning to do will be beneficial to everyone, as long as people are willing and interested enough to make the leap. But there's always that doubt in your mind of if it will or won't work. You just have to set yourself a very realistic target and make sure you never let go of it. And always always give the people who might potentially buy your design the best experience you can.

All the best,

Gordon


----------



## Bruno.M

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hey Gordon,

Nice words  I finished my first drawings, realised that if I want to mill it myself there will be quite some sharp corners, which probably won't look nice, so I made a second, updated model, almost ready to be sent for a quote to a CNC-miller I know. I looked up a lot of stuff about waterproofing, movements, tools, the crystal, ... And! I posted some of my ideas on the Dutch language forum, and found someone kind and enthusiastic enough to donate me a nice Russian hand-wind movement for the watch!

Once I got more info, and nice renders (I'm good at drawing in CATIA but am not familiar with rendering), I'll open a topic here. Is it ok if at some point I contact you for questions? Maybe we can share thoughts 

Bruno


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hello everyone,

Just a quick message to say that I am just about ready to make my announcement. I will post here when I do with a link to it and I hope you'll check it out.

I am very very excited about it and I cannot wait to get started. I've spent every night until the wee hours for the past 3 months straight to get to a point where I am confident that what I am offering is unusual, interesting and very rewarding for all involved. This is a fresh take on things and I believe, along with the support from the WUS family, that this could be an amazing journey for everyone.

Scottish Designed. German Engineered. Swiss Powered.

All the best

Gordon


----------



## 3ther

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I'm excited for the announcement and for you! I feel like I've watched a dream come true. Can't wait!


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I am really anxious to see this. To be honest, I'm rather jealous!  can't wait to see what is coming.. Hopefully something that is affordable to a working college student, but I won't get my hopes up! :-d

Its been cool watching this thing unravel. Can't believe it is actually complete. Hope it all works out as planned for you!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hello Kyle and 3ther,

Thanks for the replies.

Affordability for the WUS members was one of, if not the most important, points when deciding to take on this project. There's been some pretty big shifts and developments which have been good or bad depending on your viewpoint, but one thing is for sure, regardless of what has happened, I am now at a point where I am confident that the affordability, design and quality of what I am offering, considering what they are, is going to be a surprise! (I hope!)

Anyway,

Soon all will be revealed and I can sleep for the first time in nearly 4 months...maybe. 

Gordon


----------



## stevend101

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Thats confused me! no more Yamyambiker eh! must be too cold in Scotland for two wheels or are you going upmarket?


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

haha well this excites me even more! I've lost many hours of sleep thinking of ideas and tools I may eventually need and I am nowhere near what you have done! I can imagine the lack of sleep! how much longer do we have to wait??


----------



## sciguy77

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Gordon,

How are you planning on attaching the case to the crystal? Aren't many of them pressure-sealed?


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



sciguy77 said:


> Gordon,
> 
> How are you planning on attaching the case to the crystal? Aren't many of them pressure-sealed?


Hi Sciguy, thanks for the message.

Without giving much away, I am not manufacturing the cases myself. A 3rd-generation German master case maker is.

;-)

Gordon


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

This is driving me nuts.. Lol I've been checking this thread three times a day, every day! I need to know what's up!  I wanna know a price to see if this broke college kid can spend his food money on this watch! Hahaha if it's anything like the prototype pics, then I'm going to HAVE to have it...crossing my fingers haha


----------



## swordfish767

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I am very excited too.Can not wait to see the result.When you think it will be ready for the public?
Regards


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Morning

Thanks for the messages!

I am confident that in the next week or two I will make the announcement.

There are a lot of things to orchestrate ..



And just to stir it up a bit more....the designs now are better than the prototypes.

If you had an excitement level measured by the distance from earth to the moon...I am almost landing on the lunar surface...

Gordon


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Wow... It sounds like this thing is changing your life! I'd like to design my own watches for a living! Any a week is LONG.. Maybe I can get some inside info?? Haha kidding! can't wait!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hello all,

Quick update before I go to bed and lie thinking about a million things before falling asleep at 5am.

Everything is prepared, I had the forum announcement typed, all players in my orchestra tuned and awaiting the conductor, ready to go. Tap tap tap...

And then I received an email, one that has served up an alternative that I just can't ignore. It was from another Master German, but one that has featured quite heavily on the WUS forums and are, from what I've read (and I've read a lot), very highly regarded.

It is because of this email, this 11th hour surprise, that I have decided to fully explore this avenue before making the announcement. I hope you'll forgive the slight delay, but if/when things pan out, you'll see why I chose to explore it. It also makes a lot more sense to wait on their confirmations as they fit in more with what I am trying to achieve.

Bazelworld and Inhorgenta are playing silly games with the timings and so it might take a few more days.

This is not a set back, it's not a problem or a negative. This is a massively positive and exciting event and one that, should things come back as I hope them to, make everything for me go from very exciting to the best thing that could have happened. It's that one step above where I wanted to be.

As I said, I have everything ready to release, confirmations coming out of my ears, visual splendour that is just gorgeous (Biased) and all I want to do now is push Post, but until I have this avenue explored and either accepted or refused, I will hold off. It's for the benefit of it all.

I hope you understand. I expect this to all be resolved in the coming week and everything is still on schedule.

Gordon

:-!:-!:-!:-!:-!


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Watch.me - chill out, and stop reading it.. very simple.

Gordon - You're KILLING me man!! I've gotta see what you are making! Now you're talking about Bazelworld?? how awesome IS that? I wanna get my hands on one of these watches even before I know what they look like! I'd kill to be in your shoes! From engineer to full blown watch designer and owning your own company! (from what it seems like).. I have got to know the price of one of these.. I got a little tax kick back as a college student so I MAY be able to afford one! (I am SERIOUSLY crossing my fingers on affordability.. keep us up-to-date!!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Kyle, I will PM you with information.

Gordon


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Hello

Still awaiting final costings before the announcement.

In the meantime here's a glimpse of it:









Gordon


----------



## 3ther

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

0_0

Looks like I best unload some watches.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Quick update if you've not been over at the Watchmaking forum

This is where the design is at, it's been confirmed and now awaiting final costings for manufacture on these and another version, which will be made available exclusively to WUS members, will be announced as soon as everything is in place (which it is, and I'm just awaiting 1 set of costings):


----------



## CADstraps

Wow, totally want. Much prefer the 3, 6, 9 layout to the 6, 9, 12 in the previous iteration, and really like the big date. I think that if the date wheels were grey (same grey as the hands, not the darker grey of the dial itself) with lime numbers that would really make the theme all in one, but I understand that people like to have contrast in the date windows. Me, I know where the date is on my watch, I don't need it slapping me in the face, but that's just me. 

I will be very interested in seeing what the pricing looks like.


----------



## Patman

VERY interesting dial design!


----------



## simba

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I was all set to put in an order for my birthday present (very soon!) until i saw this! Unlike anything I have seen before.

Looking forward to the final details! Drool!



Gordon Fraser said:


> Hello
> 
> Still awaiting final costings before the announcement.
> 
> In the meantime here's a glimpse of it:
> 
> View attachment 620831
> 
> 
> Gordon


----------



## two40

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

While we're waiting for the announcement... more photos please? :-D


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Oh Ho! YES! I am absolutely buying one! Everyone will have a tough time beating me to get in line! It's gorgeous Gordon!  post the announcement quick!!


----------



## chopperdave

Looks lovely, although it's a bit cluttered for my tastes (especially considering your original stated design intent).

Also, I agree with James_ above, the poll is pretty much unanswerable without knowing more details.


----------



## DEPA

Hi Gordon, there is a movement, very similar to what you sketched. ETA 7750 base with a power reserve indicator, located closer to date disc than yours. it is much more expensive than the standard 7750


----------



## Daemos

I really like the design of this watch! If it's within a reasonable price range (~$1200USD) I'd buy one, I'd offer more, but I'm a student, but I'd easily work more hours to support someone building their first watch that I like  

I'm just starting to read through the watchmaker thread now.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Thank you all for your incredibly positive comments.

Reading the poll and the posts here and in the matchmaking forum, it's clear to me that everything depends on the price point, the materials used and the movements. It is for all these reasons that I do believe that you will be very surprised by the price I am setting.

Basically the situation is that I already have a complete package priced and ready to go using several companies in Germany and Switzerland, but I am now waiting on a company called Fricker coming back with their "full service" price. Budgets are already set, but depending on what Fricker come back with will depend on what route I decide to take the company.

I will release every and all detail on prices, specs, materials, movements and the very rewarding WUS deal when they come back to me, which will be early next week after Bazel is over with.

As I have said in the watchmaker forum, this is a pretty small profit venture, about getting my designs out there and rewarding those who made the leap and get this going.

In the meantime, 2 of 2:









Gordon


----------



## 3ther

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



KyleA said:


> Oh Ho! YES! I am absolutely buying one! Everyone will have a tough time beating me to get in line! It's gorgeous Gordon!  post the announcement quick!!


I'm callin' shenans here and saying this Kyle fella is guilty of insider trading


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



3ther said:


> I'm callin' shenans here and saying this Kyle fella is guilty of insider trading


Well, he's obviously making an announcement about his product to sell...If it was for his own personal use his signature wouldn't be "Fraser Timepiece Company" So I can only assume the announcement will be details on purchasing so I will be FIRST...Unless I can't afford it... in which case, I will be sacrificing some other watches for sale! > I'm just glad to see a final image!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

hehe you'll all be out of your misery soon!


----------



## 3ther

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



KyleA said:


> Well, he's obviously making an announcement about his product to sell...If it was for his own personal use his signature wouldn't be "Fraser Timepiece Company" So I can only assume the announcement will be details on purchasing so I will be FIRST...Unless I can't afford it... in which case, I will be sacrificing some other watches for sale! > I'm just glad to see a final image!


Only teasing, my dude. I'm amped on the image too. I'm more amped on that non-chrono he put up in the watch concepts section. Looks sharppp!


----------



## simba

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Gordon, how are you going to be selling these? Website... a dedicated thread etc (same for handling any warranty, potential issues etc)? Would you be making an announcement prior to putting them on sale or will it be a race to the finish line straight away....


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



simba said:


> Gordon, how are you going to be selling these? Website... a dedicated thread etc (same for handling any warranty, potential issues etc)? Would you be making an announcement prior to putting them on sale or will it be a race to the finish line straight away....


Hi Simba

Thanks for the message

The way this is going to pan out is: I will make an announcement detailing the specs, proposals etc in a new thread on a specific forum, most likely the Public Forum as that's where the target market is - the WUS members.

Following this thread/announcement I will see what the reaction is, see how many people would be looking to make a purchase and if there's enough interest (I have a number I need to secure to make these manufacturable) then I will set up an additional thread with a list which will be on a first come first serve basis.

Regarding the website, warranty, potential issues etc, this will all be addressed in the announcement, but I have a website ready to launch that has all details on it. Future sales will be done through the website but this first announcement, and indeed all future announcements will be done exclusively through WUS.

This whole thing, project, company, products, futures...it's all leaning very heavily on two things -

a: my designs and proposals being good enough, and 
b: demand to purchase by the WUS family.

There's a Plan B in place. But for this to play out how I want and for all to benefit, it's Plan A that I am looking towards.

As I said in the Concepts forum, I have a manufacture route ready to go, but I am awaiting a final costing from Fricker before I steer either way. The "full production" service from Fricker suits the project more, but if it costs me and subsequently the WUS'ers too much then it's not a viable option. I have a price I am aiming these at and I don't want to stray too far from this, if at all...it's the main thing that will make or break this announcement.

I trying very hard to set myself up to make this announcement running and keep the momentum going. It's taken over my life getting things in place to properly support this. Nothing kills interest more than delays and I've already had a few.

I'm now a sponsor which allows me to make the announcements and I have big plans that keep the WUS community at its core.

Hope this is ok for now, all the best from the East!

Gordon

p.s.


----------



## KyleA

Daemos said:


> I really like the design of this watch! If it's within a reasonable price range (~$1200USD) I'd buy one, I'd offer more, but I'm a student, but I'd easily work more hours to support someone building their first watch that I like
> 
> I'm just starting to read through the watchmaker thread now.


Man, I know what you mean! I am a student as well but I am willing to fork some extra out to get something so original and gorgeous! totally stunning! MUST HAVE! Can't wait to see specs and price!


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



3ther said:


> Only teasing, my dude. I'm amped on the image too. I'm more amped on that non-chrono he put up in the watch concepts section. Looks sharppp!


Haha I know. Yeah the other one definitely seems to be a 6498 concept! It's so simple, yet very unique. I think the uniqueness lies alot in the texturing and finishing.. I like that it isn't all shiny or just brush finished..never seen a case like that either.. The whole thing must be built from the ground up! which I love since it hopefully wont all be sourced out like a lot of even high end brands. Tourby sources their cases from Kemmner... just really cool to see something totally NEW!


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

That is a lot of awesome new info! I am literally putting off buying another Steinhart or Hamilton watch in wait for the announcement! I am probably more excited than anyone about this (maybe a little too excited?) After seeing these pics, it's just so cool to see the concept and idea come so far and actually GET to potential production like this! I will support plan A as much as I can!

When I first saw the pic the first words out of my mouth were literally "HOLY Sh**"! LOL


----------



## Daemos

Hey Gordon,

IMO you should REALLY customize the crown somehow with your logo  Man both designs look great!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Daemos said:


> Hey Gordon,
> 
> IMO you should REALLY customize the crown somehow with your logo  Man both designs look great!


I thought about this but the logo is a circle...!

I thought about paint-fills etc but its not offered by either manufacturer. I will have a think.

Gordon


----------



## simba

are we going to have an announcement tomorrow then?


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Admin

Can we have my other thread over on the watch making forum merged here in the Watch Concepts forum?

I would like to have all the stuff in one place instead of cross posting. Not sure how neat or chronological it will be, I dont know how these things work!?

Thank you very much


Gordon


----------



## dacattoo

Rolex or maybe an Omega


----------



## Gordon Fraser

dacattoo said:


> Rolex or maybe an Omega


What does this mean!?

Cryptic

G


----------



## Gordon Fraser

dacattoo said:


> Rolex or maybe an Omega


Damn iphone


----------



## 3ther

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

*twiddles thumbs and whistles a tune*

The suspense is killing me


----------



## Gordon Fraser

OK all,Costs are back from Fricker, and it is the route I am going to take. I will get everything checked and then make the announcement. Please bear with me on this point... it's just too damn exciting. :-!Gordon


----------



## simba

Gordon Fraser said:


> OK all,Costs are back from Fricker, and it is the route I am going to take. I will get everything checked and then make the announcement. Please bear with me on this point... it's just too damn exciting. :-!Gordon
> View attachment 628163


Looking good!


----------



## KyleA

Very very excited! Love the new pic! Gets me more excited! This suspense is the WORST. Can't wait


----------



## stevend101

I am liking the look. Very distinctive!

The matt finish would look good especially with the colours chosen. Is that a sandwich dial?

Steve.


----------



## KyleA

Obviously I am not Gordon, but I can answer since I know and - Yes, it is a sandwich dial! I love how it looks and cannot wait to see more pics


----------



## Gordon Fraser

stevend101 said:


> I am liking the look. Very distinctive!
> 
> The matt finish would look good especially with the colours chosen. Is that a sandwich dial?
> 
> Steve.


Morning

Thank you for the message Steve, and I can confirm what Kyle said - yes it is a sandwich dial, back-lumed.

I will release all specs for the 2 timepieces - the Limited Editions and the Special Editions - very soon.

On top of getting the company started, speaking to manufacturers, meetings with accountants, solicitors, distributers, shops, printers etc etc etc...I'm also moving house this weekend and getting married in November! So it's a bit of a stressful time!

It never rains...

As food for thought over the weekend, the watches will be Fricker made & assembled 44mm dia excl crown, 22mm Lug Width, 11mm thin, Sand blasted SS & Titanium, Sapphire AR, Swiss movements, and...

More later

Gordon


----------



## Daemos

Nice looking!

If the watches are going to be numbered, consider auctioning off the #1 number watch for charity (if you are not planning on keeping for your self  ) I'm sure potentially even only on watchuseek you could raise some cash for a needy charity of your choice


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Daemos said:


> Nice looking!
> 
> If the watches are going to be numbered, consider auctioning off the #1 number watch for charity (if you are not planning on keeping for your self  ) I'm sure potentially even only on watchuseek you could raise some cash for a needy charity of your choice


Nice idea. I will investigate.

Gordon


----------



## simba

is one of the editions you mentioned going to be a non chrono?

like the sounds of the specs.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

simba said:


> is one of the editions you mentioned going to be a non chrono?
> 
> like the sounds of the specs.


Yes

G


----------



## simba

Gordon Fraser said:


> Yes
> 
> G


Cool i look forward to that one.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

View attachment 621601


----------



## simba

Gordon Fraser said:


> View attachment 621601


ooooh naughty!

Btw i should state at this point that its my birthday on the 25th .... should a lovely watch as pictured come by my way it shall be a limited edition birthday indeed lol!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

All,

The reason that this thread has leaped to 7 pages is because it's been merged with the other thread on the Watchmaking forum.

You might see duplicate posts etc because of it.


Thanks to the admin for doing that.



Gordon


----------



## KyleA

Is it weird that I made one of the new photos you posted into my wallpaper for my phone and iPad? >


----------



## Gordon Fraser

KyleA said:


> Is it weird that I made one of the new photos you posted into my wallpaper for my phone and iPad? >


It's not weird. It's the coolest thing one can do. In fact, I think everyone should do it....


----------



## KyleA

Gordon Fraser said:


> It's not weird. It's the coolest thing one can do. In fact, I think everyone should do it....


It looks excellent! Great quality image! Love the look of that chrono. I just really like the 6498 style though...its going to be a hard choice if I have to choose between the two......why did you have to make them both look so good?


----------



## CADstraps

Gordon Fraser said:


> View attachment 628163


Your dial looks like it went from Grey to black - that's not the case is it? Say it aint so...


----------



## Gordon Fraser

CADstraps said:


> Your dial looks like it went from Grey to black - that's not the case is it? Say it aint so...


It is anthracite...to be exact, a midway point between the light stainless steel colour and black.

G


----------



## Drop of a Hat

It looks awesome. Best of luck.

Sent Via Tapatalk


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Drop of a Hat said:


> It looks awesome. Best of luck.
> 
> Sent Via Tapatalk


Thank you very much!

I hope things go well once the announcement is public.

Gordon


----------



## 3ther

Perhaps a silly question, but is there lume on the watch on the lower half of the sandwich dial? These pictures are incredible by the by. I'm amped on the announcement!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

3ther said:


> Perhaps a silly question, but is there lume on the watch on the lower half of the sandwich dial? These pictures are incredible by the by. I'm amped on the announcement!


Yes. The indices between the hours are not lumed. So the hours, ONE and subs are lumed.

Theres a slice in the middle of the tips of the hour and minute are as well, if you look hard.

All subject to refinement of course

Gordon


----------



## Shawnny

Will there be different colors, like red and orange?


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Shawnny said:


> Will there be different colors, like red and orange?


The announcement will give more information but for the first few releases, although there won't be a red or orange, there will be different colours.

Gordon


----------



## slikmetalfab

Looking good Gordon!

Is serial number 001 spoken for yet? 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Hello all,

Some R&D images from prototyping last week:

























































Gordon


----------



## Gordon Fraser

For those wondering what Anthracite bead-blasted looks like:









Gordon


----------



## KyleA

wow, so cool! I love the shape of the lugs. the size of the case is just right and the way the lugs transition is very cool. I like the looks of the anthracite! Never owned anything like it... yet! btw, how large is your wrist?


----------



## Gordon Fraser

KyleA said:


> wow, so cool! I love the shape of the lugs. the size of the case is just right and the way the lugs transition is very cool. I like the looks of the anthracite! Never owned anything like it... yet! btw, how large is your wrist?


Morning,

It's come a long way since the first prototype! I think the lugs are far better now, the old protos with the straight lugs sat too awkward and cause some slight discomfort. It also looked silly, although I only see that now due to how nice the new lugs sit.

I've reduced how far the crown protrudes from the case as that too cause a wee bit of pinching when leaning on a table or playing ping pong.

My wrist is 18cm/7".

The anthracite with the lime is, in my opinion of course, stunning. It's like wearing a dark suit with a really vivid/bright tie, and I just love Lime... The colour and the fruit...

Gordon


----------



## The Guvnah

Gordon Fraser said:


> The anthracite with the lime is, in my opinion of course, stunning.


Agreed, it really pops, almost L.E.D.-like.



Gordon Fraser said:


> ...and I just love Lime... The colour and the fruit...
> 
> Gordon


Ditto; lime flavour Tic-Tacs = top sweeties! |>


----------



## Peter Atwood

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Wow, amazing that you have gotten this far with the project. This is looking very very good in all respects. Fricker was the smartest move you have made as they are one of the very best maker/fabricators out there and I have owned many of their excellent products. Even if it takes a year to get them done (which it very well may) it will be worth it. Sign me up for one or both models of these please!


----------



## Shawnny

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Not a lot of people are into lime green. I know, I wouldn't buy anything with lime green on it, especially a watch. It just takes all the class out of it. I think you should offer different colors, along with the lime green, as some people do like it. I think even black would look good. Red and orange would look best.

Do a poll and see what colors people like most and in what order.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Shawnny said:


> Not a lot of people are into lime green...It just takes all the class out of it


Hi Shawny, thanks for your message

Show me a design that everyone likes! It's just one of these things, there's no way I will ever satisfy everyone's tastes. To say that not a lot of people like lime green is a big statement but if you can show me examples of this then I am prepared to explore alternative colours.

There will be different colours of dial in future, I have a few already mapped out. But the Lime Green colour is the basis of my whole design (and Logo) and as such isn't really up for change. There will be opportunities in future to have Special Editions with different features, including various colour of hands, which will be disclosed shortly.

Don't see this as a slant on you by the way. Everyone has tastes, everyone has opinions.

All the best

Gordon


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I don't mean to be blunt or rude, but if we are talking about colors and class, how is red and orange considered classy at all if green is not? (I would never and do not own anything red or orange, especially a watch.) I think he is making a signature for himself with the lime green accents. IMO, he is putting his personality into the watch and simply making something DIFFERENT that stands out. I am not so sure that he is focused on making the worlds classiest watch, but rather, something totally unique and different.. Of course, as you have mentioned, it is really just based on opinion and personal taste and he may possibly do different color combos in the future and let people choose their own colors. but it is all still new and in the works and isn't even MADE yet.

I am just a bit flustered by this because I have watched this process and his hard work go into this project over the past few months and IMO its just a bit harsh and offensive to say that it has no class and that the green is distasteful...


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



KyleA said:


> I don't mean to be blunt or rude, but if we are talking about colors and class, how is red and orange considered classy at all if green is not? (I would never and do not own anything red or orange, especially a watch.) I think he is making a signature for himself with the lime green accents. IMO, he is putting his personality into the watch and simply making something DIFFERENT that stands out. I am not so sure that he is focused on making the worlds classiest watch, but rather, something totally unique and different.. Of course, as you have mentioned, it is really just based on opinion and personal taste and he may possibly do different color combos in the future and let people choose their own colors. but it is all still new and in the works and isn't even MADE yet.
> 
> I am just a bit flustered by this because I have watched this process and his hard work go into this project over the past few months and IMO its just a bit harsh and offensive to say that it has no class and that the green is distasteful...


Wow.

I completely accept any and all opinions, but we've just witnessed the polar opposites!

I think this combo is really nice but I am biased. It's not totally Lime either, it's just small subtle hints.

Anyway,

As KyleA pointed out, this is still in its infancy and there's always scope for anything to happen. If this takes off, we can have all colour combos under the sun!....well, maybe 

Yours

Gordon


----------



## Shawnny

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Gordon Fraser said:


> Hi Shawny, thanks for your message
> 
> Show me a design that everyone likes! It's just one of these things, there's no way I will ever satisfy everyone's tastes. To say that not a lot of people like lime green is a big statement but if you can show me examples of this then I am prepared to explore alternative colours.
> 
> There will be different colours of dial in future, I have a few already mapped out. But the Lime Green colour is the basis of my whole design (and Logo) and as such isn't really up for change. There will be opportunities in future to have Special Editions with different features, including various colour of hands, which will be disclosed shortly.
> 
> Don't see this as a slant on you by the way. Everyone has tastes, everyone has opinions.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Gordon


I'm with you there. The more you try to please everyone, the more you can't please everyone. I didn't know that the lime green was a basis for your design. But a watch can't be defined by a color.

The only example I can give you, is to take a look at all the products people buy. A very small % of the things we buy are lime green. That's because companies spend a lot of money and do research and find that the majority of consumers prefer different colors. Even in the watch world, you don't see very much lime green. There is a reason for that. What I would do is come up with some computer generated samples of different colors, like red, orange, yellow, even black and white. And start a new thread with a poll asking which color people prefer. That would also give you an idea, in what percentages, to have different colors made, if you decided to go that way. It's free market research. The goal is to sell as many watches as possible. The last thing you want to do is strangle sales, just because a color is not appealing to someone. I know it's your baby and you want things the way you want it. And I'm not trying to step on that. But, I just last month, watch a 25 year old company that is very near and dear to my heart, go under, because the new designer had to have everything his way and would not listen to what the consumer was asking for. I wouldn't want that to happen to you. I think what you're doing is great.


----------



## Shawnny

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



KyleA said:


> I don't mean to be blunt or rude, but if we are talking about colors and class, how is red and orange considered classy at all if green is not? (I would never and do not own anything red or orange, especially a watch.) I think he is making a signature for himself with the lime green accents. IMO, he is putting his personality into the watch and simply making something DIFFERENT that stands out. I am not so sure that he is focused on making the worlds classiest watch, but rather, something totally unique and different.. Of course, as you have mentioned, it is really just based on opinion and personal taste and he may possibly do different color combos in the future and let people choose their own colors. but it is all still new and in the works and isn't even MADE yet.
> 
> I am just a bit flustered by this because I have watched this process and his hard work go into this project over the past few months and IMO its just a bit harsh and offensive to say that it has no class and that the green is distasteful...


I didn't mean it to sound like it didn't have any class to it. I could have worded that different. I apologise for that. I think it's a great watch. And I want one if there is a different color choice. I'm only saying this, because I am a painfully average consumer. If I am feeling this way, a lot of other people are going to feel the same way, and I have to say a lot of people will not buy it if the only color choice is lime green. Almost every luxury item we purchase in life comes with a color choice or other options. Limiting that is limiting sales.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Shawnny said:


> I'm with you there. The more you try to please everyone, the more you can't please everyone. I didn't know that the lime green was a basis for your design. But a watch can't be defined by a color.
> 
> The only example I can give you, is to take a look at all the products people buy. A very small % of the things we buy are lime green. That's because companies spend a lot of money and do research and find that the majority of consumers prefer different colors. Even in the watch world, you don't see very much lime green. There is a reason for that. What I would do is come up with some computer generated samples of different colors, like red, orange, yellow, even black and white. And start a new thread with a poll asking which color people prefer. That would also give you an idea, in what percentages, to have different colors made, if you decided to go that way. It's free market research. The goal is to sell as many watches as possible. The last thing you want to do is strangle sales, just because a color is not appealing to someone. I know it's your baby and you want things the way you want it. And I'm not trying to step on that. But, I just last month, watch a 25 year old company that is very near and dear to my heart, go under, because the new designer had to have everything his way and would not listen to what the consumer was asking for. I wouldn't want that to happen to you. I think what you're doing is great.


Thank you for a measured response.

I think as long as the design doesn't use a colour too much, and retain a bit of subtlety that perhaps using it more wildly would jeopardise, and in doing so maybe retain some edge over competitors. If I start blasting a colour all over the place i'll quickly find myself in gaudy land. I think a watch can be defined by colour in moderation and can become something synonymous with a brand. Ferrari. Blue Angels. Red Arrows. CAT... They all have watches that use their defining colour to brand the watch. They might not be the best looking ones (Citizen Skyhawk exempt), but they do use colour as the design...if you like.

I am trying to start a new company here and to open the options up to committee puts a lot of potential disappointment out there, as well as costs up if I have 50% wanting one colour and 50% wanting another. I agree with strangling sales and as I said previously, if its a unanimous desire to have something changed then I will reflect that in the design, it would be stupid to charge towards what I want blinkered from what everyone else wants. But to keep the costs as streamlined as possible and as a result pass on that saving to the customer, I need to refrain from getting to crazy with catering to one and all for the first watches out the gate.

Once the announcement is out I'll gauge the reaction, the demand and the opinion and go from there. But I will be pushing as hard as I can to retain the Lime green hands. The logo is Lime green and can't change.

As it stands in this thread alone, you seem to be the only guy objecting to the lime green/anthracite combo, so lets see how it goes. You might bring them out of the woodwork. I have to say I don't agree with lime green combos being negative. Look at Lambo, Skoda, Ford etc who all offer bright lime green cars (amongst other fabulously bright versions) and they do all right, and quite often become little niche classics that are demanded more because of the bright colour. I'm not saying this will be the case for me, I can only dream...but I think it's good to have something different available, even if it does put some people off.

I've got a game plan and I need to try and stick to it for these first watches. After that I can look at broadening the horizons.

Are you by chance in the customer research field? I could use your expertise 

Thank you for your support. It's great to have an alternative opinion. Balance makes the heart grow fonder...hang on....that's not right?



Gordon


----------



## Shawnny

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Ferrari sells a lot of cars that aren't red, their logo is a different color and you see very few lime green cars on the streets. Lambo owners need to be noticed for some reason, lime green and orange does that for them. Just like guys who ride road bicycles like Mini Coopers for some strange reason. Blue Angels and Red Arrows, well their name has a color in it, can't do much about that. As for the lime green logo, in that case I think it's a good idea. It really stands out and it's different. It gets peoples attention, that's what a logo is supposed to do. And yeah, I wouldn't splash the watch with more color, the little it has is perfect.

To answer you question, not directly. I do a lot of reviews and editing for different web sites and blogs, in different fields. One of those web sites is a watch site.

I wish you the best of luck and I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Shawnny said:


> I didn't mean it to sound like it didn't have any class to it. I could have worded that different. I apologise for that. I think it's a great watch. And I want one if there is a different color choice. I'm only saying this, because I am a painfully average consumer. If I am feeling this way, a lot of other people are going to feel the same way, and I have to say a lot of people will not buy it if the only color choice is lime green. Almost every luxury item we purchase in life comes with a color choice or other options. Limiting that is limiting sales.


I certainly agree with you on having a variety and options open to customers. If car companies only offered a single color, I don't think that would be a successful way to market to as many potential customers as possible. But in this situation, I am sure there needs to be a limit on choice to limit initial costs. Once it takes off and there is good demand and especially if there is demand for a different color combo, THEN he can do that. Plus, he has stated that in the initial announcement he will be taking the public's desires into account.

But for now, I think it is smart how he is focused on targeting a niche market to gain initial traction and attention and to actually differentiate himself from the over-flooded watch market. It seems like too many companies are so focused on SELLING as much as possible that they pass up creative new ideas and designs. I think that new ideas and designs will separate from the normal consumer market and create something new that only THAT design has and people will be flocking to it because they love new and creative things amongst all of the brands that just look like one-another.

At least, this is my standing and why I will be buying a Fraser Timepiece - because I love and value the original designs, colors, and textures of his deigns. He obviously is not Rolex and cannot do mass marketing polls and offer a ton of variety right off the bat. But I am extremely excited and hopeful for the future of his business and think many great designs will come of it! And I definitely think he will make something you will love as well in future designs and as the public gets the option to speak out more!


----------



## Daemos

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Seeing as this is a limited edition and limited production watch to help Gordon break into the market, it would be very difficult to start offering many colours, and that might raise up the price as well, as each colour might require a minimum order.

Even limited production watches from major companies usually come in at most two variations.

I think it might be possible for Gordon to offer two color combinations. But he's also offering two styles of watches which is already VERY impressive for him designing this on his own.


----------



## cole2010

Hi thanks for your reply


----------



## CADstraps

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Gordon Fraser said:


> Wow.
> 
> I completely accept any and all opinions, but we've just witnessed the polar opposites!
> 
> I think this combo is really nice but I am biased. It's not totally Lime either, it's just small subtle hints.
> 
> Anyway,
> 
> As KyleA pointed out, this is still in its infancy and there's always scope for anything to happen. If this takes off, we can have all colour combos under the sun!....well, maybe
> 
> Yours
> 
> Gordon


Lime + Grey = A-OK. That about sums it up.

If you dont like the colour combo, you won't be forced to own one. It'll leave stock for the rest of us that don't think there are enough contemporary colours available in good watches. The world will certainly keep turning without yet another red-accented watch.


----------



## Peter Atwood

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

One look at my avatar will tell you I love the color choice.  I would take any color though to be honest because I think this is a fascinating project and I'm really rooting for Mr. Fraser here.


----------



## stevend101

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

For some individuals, the colours of green and blue are very emotive! As such I suspect that this watch will not be appearing in a Larkhall jewellers window any time soon. This will not mean much to most but I am sure any Scot will understand. :think:

I personally think the colours are distinctive and individual. Surely a prerequisite for any brand wishing to stand out.

Although I like it as it is, it could well have been any colour. Few of us can only imagine the difficulty in selecting design queues to suit others.

Dont change a thing unless its what you want. Its your game your playing after all. Were only watching from the sidelines. :-!


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



CADstraps said:


> Lime + Grey = A-OK. That about sums it up.
> 
> If you dont like the colour combo, you won't be forced to own one. It'll leave stock for the rest of us that don't think there are enough contemporary colours available in good watches. The world will certainly keep turning without yet another red-accented watch.


Well said!!!!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Thank you all for your extremely kind messages.

Daemos thank you very much. You're absolutely right as well. Each individual set of hands has a minimum order and the more colours, the more quantity I need and thus the price goes up. As with these things, the smaller the quantity, the bigger the price per set.

Cole...no, thank you!...but it's a shame you're banned, I could tell we would have been friends.

CADStraps - I am glad you agree. Lime/Anthracite/Sand-Blasted metal is a great combo and it's not very common, so here's hoping it becomes almost a signature. But as long as people love it I don't mind what it becomes.

Peter, thanks again! All the support I can get I'll take.

Finally Stevend101 - So you are a fellow Scot? I agree this isn't nearly bling or crass enough to be a favourite amongst our...how do I put it...pride of Scotland?

I've finished the case-back specs/images tonight, have received final costings for the custom 6498 movements. Exciting times lie shortly ahead.

:-!

Gordon


----------



## Shawnny

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

What color will the lume be?


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Shawnny said:


> What color will the lume be?


Is that a loaded question? 

I'm aiming for a nice bright blue.

Gordon


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Gordon Fraser said:


> Is that a loaded question?
> 
> I'm aiming for a nice bright blue.
> 
> Gordon


Maybe White. C1 looks good. But I want a nice bright lume.


----------



## simba

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Gordon Fraser said:


> Maybe White. C1 looks good. But I want a nice bright lume.


yellow would be nice too


----------



## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Gordon Fraser said:


> Is that a loaded question?
> 
> I'm aiming for a nice bright blue.
> 
> Gordon


I would like a nice blue Lume! Nothing in my collection has the blue and it is my favorite and very bright!


----------



## Peter Atwood

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

No C1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! C1 is absolutely terrible and anyone who argues for it is not a lume fan. Please don't do choose C1 or I'll have to send mine out and have it relumed. If you want the stark white look then go with BG W9 (the blue stuff) which is excellent and long lasting. Or C3 which has that slightly greenish/yellowish hue and which honestly would be an even better match with your green accents. C3 is on a par with the BGW9 for long lasting glow and it glows bright green. Sinn has been using something called GL something or other which looks like C1 in daylight and is a slightly better grade but still is not as good as the BGW9 or C3.


----------



## Peter Atwood

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

One more point in regards to lume...when you have a sandwich dial the lume layer is recessed and so even less light will hit it. And if your cutouts are small and narrow even less light is going to be getting in there. Therefore you want the absolutely brightest possible lume available in order to even BEGIN to see it. I have a couple of sandwich dialed watches and even with C3 on both of them each one is honestly not as bright as a standard painted dial where you can fill in the indices to a decent depth. Given the choice I would usually avoid sandwich dials but in this case the design is interesting and original enough that I'd like to own one.


----------



## Shawnny

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Gordon Fraser said:


> Is that a loaded question?
> 
> I'm aiming for a nice bright blue.
> 
> Gordon


No, I was thinking that blue would go best with green.


----------



## simba

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

what about 2 lumes - has that even been done before. Blue and Green would be pretty cool.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Peter Atwood said:


> One more point in regards to lume...when you have a sandwich dial the lume layer is recessed and so even less light will hit it. And if your cutouts are small and narrow even less light is going to be getting in there. Therefore you want the absolutely brightest possible lume available in order to even BEGIN to see it. I have a couple of sandwich dialed watches and even with C3 on both of them each one is honestly not as bright as a standard painted dial where you can fill in the indices to a decent depth. Given the choice I would usually avoid sandwich dials but in this case the design is interesting and original enough that I'd like to own one.


ok ok !! no c1

BGW9 looks the dogs, so I'll be specifying that based on increased cost. Fricker has said I can have anything I want...

2 Lume colours, its a great idea and maybe something I can put in to the future ones, but for cost again I need to keep it straight down the middle.

I'm thinking an announcement tomorrow would be a good start to the weekend...?

Gordon


----------



## simba

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Gordon Fraser said:


> ok ok !! no c1
> 
> BGW9 looks the dogs, so I'll be specifying that based on increased cost. Fricker has said I can have anything I want...
> 
> 2 Lume colours, its a great idea and maybe something I can put in to the future ones, but for cost again I need to keep it straight down the middle.
> 
> I'm thinking an announcement tomorrow would be a good start to the weekend...?
> 
> Gordon


omg an announcement tomorrow! time? lol

Kyle wont sleep tonight!!


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



simba said:


> omg an announcement tomorrow! time? lol
> 
> Kyle wont sleep tonight!!


Haha, yeah he's pretty excited.

Say around 1pm GMT. I am very excited but incredibly nervous that it goes ok and is received the way I hope.

Gordon


----------



## Peter Atwood

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

You can already add me to the list! :-D


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Peter Atwood said:


> You can already add me to the list! :-D


Which one?...;-)

Gordon


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## KyleA

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Gordon Fraser said:


> Haha, yeah he's pretty excited.
> 
> Say around 1pm GMT. I am very excited but incredibly nervous that it goes ok and is received the way I hope.
> 
> Gordon


Yes! Very excited! Sorry to everyone if I have been a little TOO excited during this whole thing. Its just very cool to watch unfold!

I think that is about 5am my time. I get up every morning at 5:30, so I will be up 30 min early tomorrow! I hope and believe this thing will get the attention it deserves!

Bring it on Gordon! We are waiting!


----------



## simba

So is tomorrow when we actually confirm to ordering one somehow or another - with a waiting list and queue sort of thing if some people pull out then next in line ?

Or is it purely an announcement of things to come with official specs/ pictures/ details/ how many will be available?


----------



## Gordon Fraser

simba said:


> So is tomorrow when we actually confirm to ordering one somehow or another - with a waiting list and queue sort of thing if some people pull out then next in line ?
> 
> Or is it purely an announcement of things to come with official specs/ pictures/ details/ how many will be available?


Everything will be answered in the announcement.

Gordon


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## simba

Gordon Fraser said:


> Everything will be answered in the announcement.
> 
> Gordon


Good man!

Btw I like your website homepage, looks very cool.


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## Gordon Fraser

KyleA said:


> Yes! Very excited! Sorry to everyone if I have been a little TOO excited during this whole thing. Its just very cool to watch unfold!
> 
> I think that is about 5am my time. I get up every morning at 5:30, so I will be up 30 min early tomorrow! I hope and believe this thing will get the attention it deserves!
> 
> Bring it on Gordon! We are waiting!


No need to apologise Kyle, your enthusiasm has driven me forward.

Tomorrow "The List" will be open. I want to speed things along as time is ticking so the earlier I get numbers the earlier I can push the go button.

Tonight will be a long night! So much to prepare, so much to check.

G


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## KyleA

Gordon Fraser said:


> No need to apologise Kyle, your enthusiasm has driven me forward.
> 
> Tomorrow "The List" will be open. I want to speed things along as time is ticking so the earlier I get numbers the earlier I can push the go button.
> 
> Tonight will be a long night! So much to prepare, so much to check.
> 
> G


Will the official announcement be in the public forum?

Good luck Gordon! Keep it up and hang in there! Congrats on all the hard work and progress so far!


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## Gordon Fraser

KyleA said:


> Will the official announcement be in the public forum?
> 
> Good luck Gordon! Keep it up and hang in there! Congrats on all the hard work and progress so far!


Thanks Kyle

Yep sorry, Public Forum, 1pm GMT or thereabouts.


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## stevend101

Gordon,

Yes I am indeed a fellow Scot and looking forward to hearing the announcement. Might get some funny looks when I continually check the iPhone tomorrow just to see how close you get to the 1pm release. Wouldn't bode well if it wasn't on the button and accurate to the second. You know how fractious people get here where accuracy is concerned. Lol.

Meeting an architect in Edinburgh tomorrow at 12.30 so may have to excuse myself for timing purposes. They just won't believe I'm not playing angry birds..

Steve.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Ok you lot

https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/frase...members-exclusive-image-intensive-653374.html

Gordon


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## Gordon Fraser

stevend101 said:


> Gordon,
> 
> Yes I am indeed a fellow Scot and looking forward to hearing the announcement. Might get some funny looks when I continually check the iPhone tomorrow just to see how close you get to the 1pm release. Wouldn't bode well if it wasn't on the button and accurate to the second. You know how fractious people get here where accuracy is concerned. Lol.
> 
> Meeting an architect in Edinburgh tomorrow at 12.30 so may have to excuse myself for timing purposes. They just won't believe I'm not playing angry birds..
> 
> Steve.


I think you'll find I was pretty close


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Hello all


If you haven't checked it out yet, there's a big thread forming over on the Public Forum with my ONE44.



Please head on over if you haven't already,


Cheers



Gordon

p.s. link is in my signature.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Some development images from the ONE44 project


----------



## CADstraps

The white-dial version of the chrono is very nice, especially how it matches the date wheels, but that all-grey version, with the darker case is totally want.



Gordon Fraser said:


> Some development images from the ONE44 project


----------



## KyleA

Wow! I love how you filled the top of the crown in on the last image! Looks great! That all black one is stunning! I would DEFINITELY want that to be DLC! there is nothing better than something with "Diamond-like Carbon Coating" That just SOUNDS cool. and considering that DLC is HARDER than sapphire, thats just bad ass! I would love to see an all black version of the Mechanical. I just love how contrasty the all black is. The white is beautiful as well and seems dressier. 

Great variation Gordon! Keep em comin!


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## 3ther

I think I've messed myself. The dlc looks tremendous! While looking at the image, it finally hit me why I like it so much: the fact that the dials are not covered in tick marks, they are not a contrasting colour, and the fact that they are not sunken makes the watch seem entirely less busy, and more like a watch with minimal complications. I don't own many chronos due to the how cluttered/busy the dials are, but this one is an entirely different beast. I still think that crown should be lime filled, or at least have some sort of colouration, be it a "one" or a "44" or a lime version of the logo seen here: https://www.watchuseek.com/attachme...epiece-company-one44-concept-prototype_06.jpg but that's just me 

Still waiting on that final announcement on pricing. I've shifted to 90% now that I've gotten some good news regarding work.  Can't wait to hear the announcement!


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## Gordon Fraser

3ther said:


> I think I've messed myself. The dlc looks tremendous! While looking at the image, it finally hit me why I like it so much: the fact that the dials are not covered in tick marks, they are not a contrasting colour, and the fact that they are not sunken makes the watch seem entirely less busy, and more like a watch with minimal complications. I don't own many chronos due to the how cluttered/busy the dials are, but this one is an entirely different beast. I still think that crown should be lime filled, or at least have some sort of colouration, be it a "one" or a "44" or a lime version of the logo seen here: https://www.watchuseek.com/attachme...epiece-company-one44-concept-prototype_06.jpg but that's just me
> 
> Still waiting on that final announcement on pricing. I've shifted to 90% now that I've gotten some good news regarding work.  Can't wait to hear the announcement!


Thanks 3ther

I will try to get confirmation on the price to get a filled crown. I agree it would set it apart as you hardly ever see coloured crowns, but then I guess there might be a reason. Probably cost as you can imagine hand-painting 1000's of crowns, or even 1,000,000's of crowns would be mind numbing.

The DLC would be next year possibly, to go along side the main ONE44. Who knows, it might be a Special Edition.

I'm actually making tracks on bringing the costings down by using stock hands (ones that match pretty perfectly what I have designed, instead of getting custom hands made which costs a lot of money) and streamlining a few other areas. Obviously the less ordered the bigger the costs per unit but as long as they stay within a margin I am pretty confident that the estimates I provided will remain true.

Basel World is pretty soon and as a result the watchmaking world's focus is pretty much taken up with that. We're still on for an end of March deposit drop and production to commence April, with high hopes to get these to you before November. That would be absolutely brilliant. I am actually secretly hoping to get them before November as I am getting married and would just love to be wearing my own watch for it.


----------



## 3ther

That sounds fantastic  Yea, that does make a lot more sense now, as that would be time consuming and require a lot of hours. 

Congrats on your upcoming marriage! That definitely would make it even more special!


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## Gordon Fraser

3ther said:


> That sounds fantastic  Yea, that does make a lot more sense now, as that would be time consuming and require a lot of hours.
> 
> Congrats on your upcoming marriage! That definitely would make it even more special!


Thank you very much!

It's been a long time coming 12 years this year! Hmmm

Maybe get some nice marketing shots in me kilt - confirm the Scottish part of this whole thing.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Ok a little test as requested by a few people over on the announcement thread. Indices or minute markers on the hand-cranker.

















Thoughts?


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



authenticwatch said:


> The gorgepus design really rocks. One of the main purposes of the watchmakers is to dimension to the personality. So only the designer watches do that correctly.


I'll take that...even if you are suspended and I don't understand it....I'm still taking it.


----------



## brian30tw

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I really like the top one better. Much cleaner and more simple. I'm glad we're going that direction!

Thanks for the comparison shots,
Brian


----------



## Daemos

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Thanks for the comparison renders Gordon! Although I like them both...the top without the markers is a cleaner design, but the bottom with the markers would make it easier to tell time accurately as well when it's dark and the lume comes on...the extra markers would make it look awesome


----------



## bluloo

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I like the minute marker version better. It gives the watch a more "useful" feel. For something that's already rather conceptual and artsy in appearance, I think it works better.


----------



## The Guvnah

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



bluloo said:


> I like the minute marker version better. It gives the watch a more "useful" feel. For something that's already rather conceptual and artsy in appearance, I think it works better.


I'll go with that, although a thought arises; would a sliver of li/ume to mark the quarters be over-egging the pud?


----------



## Daemos

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

Looking at it more I perfer the min markers more as well, gives the watch more 'purpose' but I've never owned a watch without min markers...


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

It's interesting to see that a few like the minute marker version better, but based on accurate time telling and a feeling of purpose. I wonder then, how many of us when asked the time, say it's so many minutes past or if it's rounded up i.e. it's 5-past-2 instead of it's 4 minutes and 30 seconds past 2? What would one be doing whilst wearing a ONE44 Mech, to have to know precise time, or rather see precise markers on the dial?

I always thought of the Mech as a more dressy, casual/evening type watch over the more purposeful ONE44 Chrono... I can see me wearing my Mechanical to go out to dinner or with my kilt whereas the Chrono will be the daily wearer...

Would it not be more apt therefore to put in second markers on the sub rather than the main dial?

G


----------



## Daemos

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

hmm I always give the time as the time on my watch, or my cell when I'm not wearing it. I also think the minute marker version gives more character to the watch, without it it's kinda movadoish as the hour indicators can seem to mesh in with the dial. I'm not sure how else to describe it, the markers make it more aesthetically pleasing when compared side by side to the one without markers.

But for me the BIG thing is the night time lume...I just love how the lume looks on the chrono...but I'd rather have a mech, adding the markers adds more lume


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I wonder if you can get BGW9 but overcoat it with anthracite, so in the day you don't get the minute markers, but at night you get the lume all the way around...I'll investigate.

Is it just me or are there a load of spammers today?

G


----------



## Daemos

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I just showed two people in my work group about the watches. The guy liked the one without min markers the female liked the one with the min markers.


----------



## owen824

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

I just joined this site as this watch was mentioned on another forum that I am a member of and have to say I am very impressed so wanted to keep up to date with all the details. Love the look of the chrono and going to have to go for one. I sent you an email Gordon so looking forward to hearing back from you. Great work so far!


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## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Daemos said:


> I just showed two people in my work group about the watches. The guy liked the one without min markers the female liked the one with the min markers.


So to summarise - Females=Busy, Males=Simple? 

It is an interesting test though.

Show it to as many as possible and do a proper test


----------



## Shawnny

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*

No minute markers looks better. But if you're going to do minute markers, there needs to be more contrast between the minute and hour markers. The hour markers need to stand out much better, compared the minute markers. Then, it would look better.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Shawnny said:


> No minute markers looks better. But if you're going to do minute markers, there needs to be more contrast between the minute and hour markers. The hour markers need to stand out much better, compared the minute markers. Then, it would look better.


I agree no minute markers looks better. I think when you are face on to the watch the longer length of the hour markers makes them stand out from the minute markers on the Chronograph version.

I'm still investigating if you can do such a thing as have really bright and long Lume that is over coated with a dark colour. My Wenger does have numbers like this but the lume is crap.


----------



## Daemos

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Gordon Fraser said:


> So to summarise - Females=Busy, Males=Simple?
> 
> It is an interesting test though.
> 
> Show it to as many as possible and do a proper test


That's the plan lol...I have more numbers but I'll post results when I have them compiled.


----------



## Shawnny

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Gordon Fraser said:


> I agree no minute markers looks better. I think when you are face on to the watch the longer length of the hour markers makes them stand out from the minute markers on the Chronograph version.
> 
> I'm still investigating if you can do such a thing as have really bright and long Lume that is over coated with a dark colour. My Wenger does have numbers like this but the lume is crap.


In the picture, it all gets lost. Maybe it looks better in person.


----------



## Daemos

*Re: First watch build...but need serious help!*



Shawnny said:


> In the picture, it all gets lost. Maybe it looks better in person.


Yeah in the render the hour indicators just look like slits cut into the face but with no real distinct visual difference to see where the hour markers are except for the green circle  Which is why I said movado ish...


----------



## Gordon Fraser

You've seen the full frontal?


----------



## Daemos

Overwhemingly the female population likes the Mechanical with the min markers. As well the Majority of males like the Mechanical with min markers as well.

I asked quite a number of people.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

A new concept to mull over...


----------



## owen824

Just keeps getting better and better...


----------



## nymjam

Very nice my good man. Will this be printed, or will you retian the layers?

Regards

J


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Thank you both 


Layers would be retained of course. The dial has a perimeter trough and the main dial appears to float inside the bezel. It would only be fair to the design to try and retain as much depth as possible. 

No idea if the lume would work with the black overlay.


I was pointed in the direction of Concepto yesterday so contacted them regarding their automatic movements. They have a big-date complication chrono with a wee day window below the big-date, which looks blinking gorgeous, so might do a few concepts with that calibre...maybe once I get something back from them.


----------



## The Guvnah

Gordon Fraser said:


> I was pointed in the direction of Concepto yesterday so contacted them regarding their automatic movements. They have a big-date complication chrono with a wee day window below the big-date, which looks blinking gorgeous, so might do a few concepts with that calibre...maybe once I get something back from them.


Concepto? Hmmm... interesting; their site doesn't seem to like Firefox though as most of the page links don't work for me unfortunately. Trying to get some movement details, dimensions, photos?


----------



## Gordon Fraser

The Guvnah said:


> Concepto? Hmmm... interesting; their site doesn't seem to like Firefox though as most of the page links don't work for me unfortunately. Trying to get some movement details, dimensions, photos?


Morning

It's mostly flash based I think. Bit clunky but they have an online flick book type catalogue with more details. Still waiting in their reply but they definitely look good. Price is the key for sure.


----------



## Daemos

If anyone is wondering...

http://www.conceptowatch.ch/EN/imgupload/article_catalogue/file/PL-1030.pdf This is the movement Gordon is talking about.

I'd like to see something done with this movement:
http://www.conceptowatch.ch/EN/imgupload/article_catalogue/file/PL-1140-I.pdf retrograde seconds, date, chrono (although only up to 30 min) and GMT


----------



## The Guvnah

Gordon Fraser said:


> Morning
> 
> It's mostly flash based I think. Bit clunky but they have an online flick book type catalogue with more details. Still waiting in their reply but they definitely look good. Price is the key for sure.


Yeah I found the 'flick book' but none of it would link to/open up the sub pages. Much obliged Daemos although they just give the bare ligne size and nowt else..


----------



## SillentWolf

Very nice concept


----------



## RainMan 777

I like the design, what is the possible price range, release date, and movement?

Thank you,


----------



## CADstraps

C2131 FTW.

But with a much better handset...



Daemos said:


> If anyone is wondering...
> 
> http://www.conceptowatch.ch/EN/imgupload/article_catalogue/file/PL-1030.pdf This is the movement Gordon is talking about.
> 
> I'd like to see something done with this movement:
> http://www.conceptowatch.ch/EN/imgupload/article_catalogue/file/PL-1140-I.pdf retrograde seconds, date, chrono (although only up to 30 min) and GMT


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Still nothing from concepto.


I hope they aren't restricted like eta...


I've got a kind of diver watch concept, a very slim and refined dress watch and a special in the works. But until I know if I can get mech movements I don't want to get too far in. 

I would stick to higher level quartz but mech seems to be the preferred engine. 


G


----------



## SillentWolf

Gordon,

It's to bad, that you didn't hear from them.

There are other Mechanical movements though; Sea-Gull (SY 19 ?), and Hamilton (917, 923, 945 Calibre).
But i think; Sea-Gull, is not something for your brand, although they are not to bad. The Hamilton movements seems very good, like ETA 6497, 6498. 
But what is the price, how many are there left. I don't know.

ETA is also an option, but as i mensioned before on Twitter .. not a really good idea though.
Not for watchmakers outside the Swatch-Group. And even if you got your hands on some Unitas movements ...
how much do they let you pay for it. Through 3rd party's .. the price is sometimes 3 times as high. And that's not an option.

So i really hope that Concepto, make that reply .. so you (we) know some more about there movements.


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Latest concept I've been working on.

Will update the website tomorrow with details and info. I have a man-flu and need to sleep 

Gordon


----------



## brian30tw

I think it's stunning. I really like the pushers and the texture around the bezel. I've always been a sucker for the blue hands on white dial theme.

I'm not sure I'm wild about the N-E-S-W, though, unless there's a function for it (compass?).

Keep up the great work! Really enjoying seeing the new concepts!

Best,
Brian


----------



## Gordon Fraser

Ok

Those who have been watching the Twitter will have read that I now have from source access to mechanical movements, in particular Sellita and Soprod. It's so exciting I can't even tell you,

Anyway I decided, even though we are not quite ready to use these folks (still securing investment for the ONE44 Lighthouses, after which will be the Auto roll--out), I am still designing away and came up with this concept. It's a no-namer at the minute but I thought I would see what the proportions etc were like for the Sellita SW500 Automatic movement (7750 basically).

Thoughts?

Gordon


----------



## LCheapo

What a coincidence! I just rediscovered this thread (I was subscribed, but for some reason this forum doesn't have a 'list subscribed threads with updates' button, or at least not one prominent enough for me...) and read it all in one go. Absolutely amazing development, then a major disappointment when on page 10 or so the chrono turned into a quartz watch, and from your last post it seems I just returned in time to see the rebirth of the mechanical chrono!

You are probably having your hands full trying to keep the initial project with the Ronda movement on track, but how about using the original design with the mechanical movement? This last one is a bit busy with the multiple layers and all that.

Apropos mechanical chronos: 'Uhren von Uhr' makes it seem as if 7750's should still be affordable; or are they using Sellita's as well? Not that it would make a huge difference to me, but having ETA might still be a selling point for some.
Personally, I'd prefer your design with a nice handwind ST19 (allowing maybe for a flatter case?) or the new(ish) automatic ST1940 (see e.g. http://www.perpetual-watch.com/images/column-wheel.JPG) .

Anyways, what an amazing story, and best of luck with your enterprise!


----------



## SillentWolf

The ST19, that is an Chinese movement. These are used in the new; Magrette.
They seems to be alright. Bases is a Venus movement, but modified ... , if i remember correctly.

But why use a Chinese movement, if you can get Swiss ones ? Sellita and Soprod are nice movements. And as Gordon mentioned above; the SW500 is like a Valjoux 7750 from ETA.
I think watches with Swiss movements sells better. Although watches with; Chinese, Japanese and American movements are also good ... i think Gordon did a good job, to choose Swiss movements instead.

About the design;

Busy dial, nice color or not; that is a personal taste. I think the designs Gordon make ... are fresh and new (even when Lime-Green is'nt my color at all, i do think it looks great on the watch(es) )
I don't want the 400th Rolex clone watch, or another diver like dial. I don't get it; a lot of new watch makers play on save, and make such a diver watch that i mentioned earlier.
I think it's plain stupid. New watchmakers must come with something new. Otherwise .. they don't gonna make it.

In Gordons case, as i said earlier on forums and twitter; the designs look great. i don't know any brand who does this like Gordon does.
I really now a lot of brands, and although it's a hard time to get a new company started .. i'm sure; Gordons hard work will come to a good result. Why ? (now i must repeat myself) because he's doing something else. Something new and fresh.
Hopefully people see it the way i see it. 

But further on the designs;

A few days ago i saw a sketch on the Fraser site, it looked like a kind of 3/4 skeleton watch. 
Really nice. If you gonna use a hand-wound Soprod in it ... it would be a killer watch. A must buy. ;-)

Oh yeah ... I'm a great fan of his work.
I like it when new watchmakers do something different (for a reasonable price). Who can argue with that


----------

