# Pam 190 vs 232 vs 249



## wahasa (Jul 27, 2011)

Hi peeps!

I think it's time to upgrade (replace) my Pam 210 to either if the above!

I did loads of research and I have been eyeballing and settled that the Pam 190 is the best choice or NOT. That said the watch is discontinued and selling for more than its retail price in 2006. A decent mint condition with box and papers sells for $10,000...

so what would u do and why:

A) would you give away a Pam 210 and get a 190 now before it keeps on increasing in price... Let's be honest we will not be seeing a new one with an 8 days JLC movement anytime soon?

b) or would you give away Pam 210 and get either a Pam 232 (love the 47 base dial) instead or even a Pam 249 (love the Cali dial) but both their movement is just a 5 dollar ETA movement and it just makes me think that the 190 is my only salvation to quench this thirst!

I know its a matter if taste ;however, i am keen on hearing ur ideas especially whom disagree with me and why!
Thanks


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

If you have the budget,go and get the 190,it has JLC movement and the typical simplicity of Pam (no date ala 368,lookin good..)
Even when the price felt a bit high,even the pre-owned 233 cost around 9000 us$,another extra 1000 for JLC movement is worth it IMO
The thing with ETA movements too that stop me from getting the 127-217-360,the asking price seems too high


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## gregvisser (Aug 12, 2012)

I was lucky enough last month to track someone down that bought a 190 brand new 8 years ago and put it straight into the safe. He tried it on once, but never wore it. It came onto the market and I jumped on it.

I am very happy with it: it keeps good time, it has a PR of 8+ days (mine keeps good time to 8 1/2 days), it winds beautifully and simply won't be made ever again.

Maybe this will help you.


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## wahasa (Jul 27, 2011)

True and I agree to the above... I might be getting it in the next 1-2 months. Gregvisser do you mind sharing with me the details of the place u attained the watch from (PM if you want), and if you don't mind the amount you purchased it!

Appreciate your replies and looking forward for more input an pics! Let see it guys what do u have?


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## Watch_guy (Jun 26, 2008)

232 is the way to go, then 249, last is 190. 
The 190 is great but when You look at your watch you dont see the movement....but you do see the beauty of a 47mm base with the 232! 
I dont really understand the movement argument..the 190 is great, but I would take 232 or 249 over it.


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## wahasa (Jul 27, 2011)

Interesting... You have a point and that's why I'm stuck but then again it's not just what shows but what is hidden both yet you have a valid pr... Will keep ur advice in mind!


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## gregvisser (Aug 12, 2012)

Not sure that I need to say much more....


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## Watch_guy (Jun 26, 2008)

gregvisser said:


> Not sure that I need to say much more....


Do you wear it like that? Just kidding..,the 190 is great, I just prefer the other two more. I guess if I really wanted a JLC movement I would buy...well, a JLC


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

wahasa said:


> ...give away Pam 210 and get either a Pam 232 (love the 47 base dial) instead or even a Pam 249 (love the Cali dial)...


The differences between the Luminor and 1950 case are evident to me, seeing as I'm a 1950 advocate, but tbh, the difference between the 45 & 47mm Radiomirs are less evident to me... (always happy to learn if you have the time to explain it to me ).

Having said that, I don't see as much excitement in going from a 210 to a 232 as you might gain from switching things up with a 190 (small-seconds) or 249 (cali). Between those two, _my vote's for the 190_ - I like the seconds subdial and *I love the JLC 1877 8-day (!) movemen*t b-)

If it's too pricey but like me, you _do_ care what kind of movement is in your watch, why don't you add the new SE *448* to your short-list... ? Then you get your _47mm Cali-dial_ and a very nice-looking in-house movement, the P.3000 :-!



Watch_guy said:


> ...when You look at your watch you dont see the movement ... I dont really understand the movement argument...


I really don't understand _your_ argument :-s - the movement is the _heart and soul_ of a watch, even for Panerai, which is based more on _historical values_ than _horological_ ones. I don't care how DNA, how clean, how whatever a piece like the 232 is - bottom line, it has an _off-the-shelf 6498_ from ETA. It's a very dependable and solid movement, I have one in my $700 Victorinox and love it, but I'm not thrilled about dropping $4K+ on any watch with said movement... :-( At least the 210 he already has is equipped with a 6498 that's been spruced up by OP... . I think the 127 & 217 are the only PAMs with a 6498 on my wish list but even those are pretty low on said list... now the 203, that's another matter all together ;-)



Watch_guy said:


> I guess if I really wanted a JLC movement I would buy...well, a JLC


I wouldn't mind a JLC either, but lest we forget that Rolex built the first PAMs and subsequently, the next gen of PAMs were equipped with Rolex and Angelus movements. Again, I'm not following your arguments, but to each his own |>


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## Watch_guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Traveller, please dont be offended by my comments. As I said, to each their own. Personally I disagree 100 percent with you...the heart and soul of the watch is the style and craftsmanship. The movements are great, but a particular movement certainly isnt going to sway what I like.
A movement is simply the engine, but there is waaaay more to it than that. Would you buy a Cheap car simply if it had a Ferrari engine, or is a Ferrari more than just an engine?
I often find that people new to the game automatically think things like in house movements are such a big deal. Guess what , my Rolex has one of the best in house movements ever made, but that isnt why I bought it.
I collect watches, not movements....I will take a cheap ETA based Panerai zero over a 312 every day....
As for the old Rolex movements, yes, that is different as they are part of the company history....I have been following the brand for several years. What exactly is the link between Panerai and JLC?
Buy what you like.....


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## westlake (Oct 10, 2011)

PAM 190 is one of my favorites and, IMHO, the best one you have listed.


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

Watch_guy said:


> Traveller, please dont be offended by my comments. ... I have been following the brand for several years...


I'm not offended... or impressed.
Let's agree to disagree, shall we? ;-)


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## Watch_guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Sounds good, but please dont edit my quotes so that they are taken out of context. Thanks and enjoy


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## gregvisser (Aug 12, 2012)

Watch_guy said:


> Do you wear it like that? Just kidding..,the 190 is great, I just prefer the other two more. I guess if I really wanted a JLC movement I would buy...well, a JLC


Panerai has a long standing history of using 'other' movements. It was their bread and butter. I guess if someone offers you a Pam 21, you might say 'no thanks - if I really wanted a Rolex movement, I will buy one'. JK. I'm not sure anyone will pass up a Pam 21 santa!

The 232 has an ETA6497 in it. The ETA in this unit is rock-solid and I certainly won't say no to it, but the JLC is something different - that's all.

I am happy to say that we can agree to disagree - that's why guys like me can still pick a Pam 190 up on the secondary market. If everyone liked them best, you would either not find them or they would be too expensive! More so than now. 

Cheers
Greg


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## wahasa (Jul 27, 2011)

Guys thank you for your contribution. I have to say that yes 210s and 232 are too close to each other and since I AM a movement person (that's the whole reason... I stopped wearing fashion watches / quartz) them I have to say that the 249 is out as well. Traveler and Greg, I completely see where coming from...

Intersitingly tough the 448 does fit the requirement so now the list is 190 or 448; though, I am leaning towards the 190... Seconds gold hands and the movement are just what I want...

Watchguy I agree with ur thinking, u don't see the moverment and the 232 is just HOT however IMO the movement is just essential for me and I already have a number of eta movements and that's why I want to replace my 210... Thank you for ur input...

Thanks again and keep ur input incoming if u i agree or have anything to add.


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## wahasa (Jul 27, 2011)

Guys - I am back to the hunt for either and now I see exactly what watch guy saw back then... the 232 is just the prettiest of the two (190 vs 232). The 47mm, the Base dial and the simplistic of it...

honestly its its a bit weird how ones taste can change in time?.. It's been 4 years and this debate is still on... i hope all is well everybody!

Wael


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## Wlover (Dec 12, 2011)

For some, taste evolves over time. For others, once they found their grail, well, they found their grail. 

Buy what you fancy at that moment if you can afford it. Wear it proudly and in good health.


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

do check 339 too,I like this one because it's simply different than a regular rad,and the current pre owned price is quite interesting...

I was almost buying a 346 until the same dealer showed me the 339...









W&W pose


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## bazza. (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm a 190 guy myself


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## vkl (Jan 31, 2007)

I've owned all three Pams before. Only one of those is still left in the rotation and that's the 190. I love the overall size and feel of that watch.


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## vkl (Jan 31, 2007)




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## bazza. (Jan 28, 2010)

You need to have a second hand just to know the watch is beating 190 wins hands down


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## logan2z (Sep 23, 2012)

bazza. said:


> You need to have a second hand just to know the watch is beating 190 wins hands down


You can always hold it up to your ear  That's what I do with my 372. But I have a 190 too and the second hand is certainly useful.


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## bazza. (Jan 28, 2010)

logan2z said:


> You can always hold it up to your ear  That's what I do with my 372. But I have a 190 too and the second hand is certainly useful.


I know what you mean but its not really a cool look '' what you doing I'm listening to my watch OK to make sure its still working ''


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

bazza. said:


> You need to have a second hand just to know the watch is beating 190 wins hands down


oh!
but the 232 and 249 are true to Panerai's DNA !. (and so as many other models without Seconds hands).


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## Zach Browman (May 6, 2014)

Seems like you're leaning toward the 190... And in my experience getting something that's "not quite" what I want doesn't really scratch that itch until I get the real deal. So I say go for the 190!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Larry Seiden (Jan 15, 2007)

All are great choices. Personally, I'd go with the 190, only for the gold hands and the PR on the back. Truly you could not go wrong with any of your choices, or any Panerai, period.


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## vkl (Jan 31, 2007)

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## watchman25 (Jan 30, 2016)

How about all 3 haha just kidding no I agree with a lot of others and would say go for the 190 :-d


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## bazza. (Jan 28, 2010)

My 190 & 177


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