# Ambit 4



## byasini

Guys!

I have a friend in an Italian design company and she told me that Suunto is ordering a package design for a new Ambit! I will update you if I receive more news.

Fenix 3 is a very powerful competitor so I think Ambit 4 will be a great piece.

I assume there would be android wear watch!


----------



## raducanmihai

They better do something. No Android support (yet), uglier, bigger and less features is no way to stand up to Fenix 3. If Fenix 3 is going to be reliable (not like Fenix 1 or 2), it really puts a pressure on Suunto to come with something nice. 

From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Let's just say it like this: At all those companies, new things are constantly under development. You can be sure that there are plans for the generation after the next one already in the works.


----------



## eeun

I've been involved in software and product testing for many years including gps devices. There will always be development and many prototypes and what gets released when depends on the competition, market trends and technology available at the time of release. Often features/functions are missed out as the technology isn't quite there and so Suunto may be working on a 4, 5 and even 6 when they release the 3. 

I'd have said an Ambit 4 was due out in the Spring of 2015. Products have a pretty limited shelf life these days though it does amaze me how people describe things as obsolete just because a newer version is available. Still using my Ambit2 Sapphire very well thanks.

Now if the 4 has dual BT/ANT+ capabilities, an app I can upload to reliably without internet connectivity, the ability to run more apps in watch and 24 hour recording I'd be in there like a shot.


----------



## Marvin Chao

While Garmin is a electronics company, Suunto is not. IMO what Suunto needs to do is to differentiate themselves from that spec competition. What they need to do is to make the watch to be designed more for outdoors.We have been seeing Garmin try to copy the sapphire and antenna design from Suunto. That's exactly where Suunto should go. Not just make the GPS watch to be more like electronics.

Personally, I found one of the limit to make Ambit to be more useful is the performance of its display becomes really bad when the temperature is cold. (like -10C). I am not sure whether the technology is already there to solve the LCD getting frozen and I think Garmin will suffer from exactly the same problem. That would be one thing to improve for sure.

Another weakness I can think of the the wristband is not exactly durable. I have another Wenger watch and I never have any issue with that more sturdy rubber band after 5 years.

Overall I feel I will be a lot happier with Ambit series if they can try to move more toward to their ELEMENTUM collection when they can try to keep the watch at reasonable price. This is what makes Suunto to be Suunto, not Garmin.


----------



## morey000

well, it's not news that Suunto would be working on an Ambit 4. As noted above, companies must always be innovating.
What is news is that they are looking at a new package. The Ambits 1, 2 and 3 all look about identical. And, while they were always better looking than the Fenix 1 and 2, they no longer have that edge. The F3 is just as good looking, if not better than the A3.

plus, it appears that the new gps chips (they all use the same ones) must have lower energy consumption, as the F3 has only a 300mAHr battery in a 16mm thick case. Thinner is better.


----------



## HIKESOLO

I'm just hoping for a rounded design (without the extended antenna) and the ability to add 3rd party straps. That to me would be amazing. Throw in some vibration alerts and I'd be sold. I just want a rugged watch with my choice of strap/band. And yes, thinner is certainly better. I've debated back and forth between switching to the Fenix 3, but I recently picked up a brand new Sapphire Ambit 3 for $409, so it looks like I'm sticking it out with Suunto. Can't wait for Ambit 4 tho!


----------



## raducanmihai

Just like you, I also just ordered a Saphire Ambit 3 w/ HR (after selling my trusty Ambit 2). I don't care about 3rd party straps, but I'd like to see a more comfortable watch/strap in Ambit 4. I was very, very close to buying another strap for my Ambit 2 because the one that came with it gave me rashes in the first week or so and continued to be quite uncomfortable. 

The only reason(s) I ordered Saphire model was the strap. There was a big discount and price difference between saphire/non-saphire was only 40 euros (a little more than a new strap). So elastomer strap on saphire + only 40 euros = my choice.

There are some things I'd like to see in Ambit 3 that I'm quite sure Suunto will not implement b/c they will save them for Ambit 4. For example virtual partner and 24/4 fitness/activity tracker are implementable in Ambit 3 via a firmware upgrade. They will most likely not implement them and "force" me to buy Ambit 4.


----------



## Aimant

Keen to see a new HRM.


----------



## raducanmihai

A little amendment about virtual partner. I know there are apps for VP, but they work comparing your average pace with VP's average pace. That is ok on a flat surface but on a trail (up/down) is a problem because during an ascent you lag behing your VP. 

I'd like to see a VP for a specific (pre-recorded) track. Meaning I run today a trail and tomorrow the same trail. I'd like to be able to compare myself with a VP at the same point on the trail. At this point I had x min/km and yesterday I had y min/km. Otherwise is useless on a trail. 

From Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## morey000

yeah, what you want is what garmin calls "Virtual Racer". Frankly, not too many watches have that *very handy feature*. Garmin had it in their 610, but pulled it out of even their flagship running watch, the 620. However- the new Epix will have it (which looks like a killer running watch for only $250, as well as Fenix 3 and 920xt. And, the TomTomMultisportCardio might be able to do it.

I don't believe that the Ambit app system allows access to previously run moves for comparison. does it?

Quite a fair request as a functionality for an Ambit 4 tho!


----------



## HIKESOLO

Epix is $500+. I think you are referring to the $250 VivoActive.


----------



## raducanmihai

@morey000 The way Ambit app system is implemented it doesn't allow access to previous moves. But this has to be implemented on a firmware level. 

If for some reason it can't be done via a firmware update in the watch directly, it can be implemented online. Let me choose a previous run and plan a move with that run as reference. Bypass in watch access to previous moves limitations by doing it online. I think this can be done! 

From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## SavageSS

From Jumping ship from my Ambit 2 to Fenix 3.
I can say there are faults on the F3 that I'm already thinking of coming back, but will wait out to see what the Amibt 4 has.

Reason for jumping, really needed the Vibration alerts and ability to change settings on the watch, not having to rely on a computer (or iPhone) with internet connection.

Virtual partner and the ability to zoom right in on a map, colour screen, and higher def screen...

Able to set different alarm notifications (e.g. running under a certain pace, or heart rate too high, etc)
Able to customise the autopause, either on stop, or below a certain speed or below a certain time. This it pretty cool.
I do like the awards it Gives you, like letting you know that was the longest run, quickest run etc..

But the annoyances really overshadow the advantages for me.


* Garmin Connect is in my view is awful compared to Movescount. I mean you can't even go full screen on the map of you activity, you are confined to a letter box view that is very restrictive... Very poor.
* Movescount's dynamic courses changing colour scale depending on what you have selected, great feature, but nothing similar in Garmin Connect.
* Ability to compare workouts in Movescount, not possible in Garminconnect

* Fenix 3 has a limited number of default apps (activities you can select from), for me it does't have walking or Mountain biking. So you make for example a Walking activity based of the built in Hike, but there is no walking icon in the watch, so you either use default ones or a heart, or a circle thingy. Then when it syncs to Garmin Connect, it's named as a "Hike" and takes on the hike icon, you have to then rename it, but cannot change the icon!....

* The built in course app in Garmin connect, is very similar to MovesCount course app, but one big difference. In Garminconnect, no ability to add way points... WTF And I refuse to use Basecamp, free maps are no where near as good, and hate the idea of having to use yet another product when it's on Garminconnect, just poorly implemented.
* I've also been told (as I can't test due to not ability to put waypoints in a course) that if you can, you can't navigate to a certain way point / bypass a way point 
* No built in graphical elevation for when you are doing an activity, Garmin have made one to use, but you can't configure it and it's based on time.
* Any custom Connect IQ apps / Widgets etc you use, do not get recorded. This sucks, as a test on my Ambit 2 I had how many beers have I worked off, and this also showed as a graph in MovesCount, There's a very similar one in Connect IQ, but when using in an activity you cannot get it uploaded to view the data, watch only...

* I've also found that Altimeter on the Ambits to be a lot more accurate...

So bring on the Ambit 4, looking forward to see what it will bring...


----------



## morey000

EatPlayLift said:


> Epix is $500+. I think you are referring to the $250 VivoActive.


Correct. the VivoActive is the one I was thinking of. it has great potential.
And, I was wrong again... it looks like the Virtual Racer feature isn't in the VivoActive (according to DCRainmaker's matrix). So, now you're back to the Fenix line or Epix.

SavageSS - all good points. I can't believe i just found a new feature on Movescount. Where you can 'zoom' into any portion of any move plot. Handy to see how long I spent at each of the aide stations of my last race. Movescount is bit more confusing than garmin connect- but pretty well thought out and featured for we data analysis geeks.

There will never be a perfect watch... any more than I'll ever be able to find the perfect pair of running shoes.


----------



## raducanmihai

You might think they're doing it on purpose (not designing the perfect watch), so we keep buying and buying every new model  

PS: I found my (almost) perfect running shoes: Salomon SpeedCross 3. I have 6 or 7 pairs in every configuration: regular, GoreTex and with metal spikes (actually called SpikeCross). They are great and size US 12/ UK 11.5 fits me "like a glove". 

From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## morey000

raducanmihai said:


> ... I found my (almost) perfect running shoes: Salomon SpeedCross 3.


Great shoe. Yes- they fit like a glove (I love their fit, and speed lacing system), well made, great looking - and a good combination of sturdy yet flexible. But- not perfect. Here's the problem I've had with all my Salomon's. Firstly- the upper is coated all around the base of the upper- so if you get water inside them, the water doesn't drain. Holds it like a glass. Secondly- their insert (which is easy to replace), is made from open cell foam. So, it absorbs water like a sponge and retains it. Plus, when it gets fully wet, it loses its rigidity and scrunches up under your feet.

So the Speedcross aren't perfect.  They're not good for my runs that involve a lot of creek crossings.

My current favorite trail shoe- Saucony Peregrines. they fit snug and narrow- similar to the Speedcross. Not quite as sturdy, but far lighter, with the best tread in the business, and a flexible and stable feel. Includes a rock plate too. Amazed at how well they do on rugged trails for seemingly light and simple shoes. Not good for over 50 miles tho'. Not enough cushion. 

And- now back to watches...


----------



## raducanmihai

I can't do more than 15-20 km run/hike in a day because of bilateral total hip replacement, so water drainage is not a big problem for me. They don't have the time to become uncomfortable, but even if they do, with a (very) good pair of socks I can overcome this problem . But you are correct, they don't drain well and they are on the heavy side. 

Back to watches: I follow Garmin thread to convince myself I made the right choice going with Ambit 3. So far I'm on the fence because I had to return my first Ambit 3.

Fenix 3 has a lot features that I'd like to see in Ambit 4. Among the most important are:
- vibrating alert
- size (Ambit wears big) 
- Ant+ and Bluetooth 
- ability to edit sport modes on the watch 
- virtual racer (ability to compare yourself with a previous recorded track, step by step) 
- 4 data screens per page. 

I would also like to see a better designed Movescount web interface. 


From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## HIKESOLO

raducanmihai said:


> I can't do more than 15-20 km run/hike in a day because of bilateral total hip replacement, so water drainage is not a big problem for me. They don't have the time to become uncomfortable, but even if they do, with a (very) good pair of socks I can overcome this problem . But you are correct, they don't drain well and they are on the heavy side.
> 
> Back to watches: I follow Garmin thread to convince myself I made the right choice going with Ambit 3. So far I'm on the fence because I had to return my first Ambit 3.
> 
> Fenix 3 has a lot features that I'd like to see in Ambit 4. Among the most important are:
> - vibrating alert
> - size (Ambit wears big)
> - Ant+ and Bluetooth
> - ability to edit sport modes on the watch
> - virtual racer (ability to compare yourself with a previous recorded track, step by step)
> - 4 data screens per page.
> 
> I would also like to see a better designed Movescount web interface.
> 
> From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


There are a LOT of complaints over on the Garmin forums about accuracy and other issues. Seems it's definitely more buggy than Suunto's offerings. May have more features, but you pay a price with a less reliable product.


----------



## Glajda

SavageSS said:


> From Jumping ship from my Ambit 2 to Fenix 3.
> 
> * I've also found that Altimeter on the Ambits to be a lot more accurate...


Can you share your experience regarding altitude? Is it the altitude accuracy or ascent and descent data or something else that you feel is better in Suuntos?


----------



## SavageSS

Glajda said:


> Can you share your experience regarding altitude? Is it the altitude accuracy or ascent and descent data or something else that you feel is better in Suuntos?


Altitude accuracy.


For example if you look at this run,
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/720921824
it was at along the river, with running up stars to the top of a cliff face and back, x 4 times.
I started the run with calibrating the F3 to 6 Metres (and the watch was set to continuously calibrate). At the base of the stairs it should had been around 3 Metres, at the top of the stairs, 30 metres


So after calibrating it, I did my run. As you can see it had it change to -16 Metres!
Straight away it is 22m out of adjustment.




I then re-adjusted it around the 9:11 min mark to 6 Metres (this was a guess) it then dropped down to -15metres.




The whole course should have been around at the lowest point 3metres, and the highest point 30 metres.




I'm on firmware 2.90 and have the Altimeter to calibrate continuously..


Not happy at all..


Compared to the Ambit 2, it's chalk and cheese.


----------



## Glajda

SavageSS said:


> Altitude accuracy.
> 
> 
> For example if you look at this run,
> https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/720921824
> it was at along the river, with running up stars to the top of a cliff face and back, x 4 times.
> I started the run with calibrating the F3 to 6 Metres (and the watch was set to continuously calibrate). At the base of the stairs it should had been around 3 Metres, at the top of the stairs, 30 metres
> 
> 
> So after calibrating it, I did my run. As you can see it had it change to -16 Metres!
> Straight away it is 22m out of adjustment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then re-adjusted it around the 9:11 min mark to 6 Metres (this was a guess) it then dropped down to -15metres.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole course should have been around at the lowest point 3metres, and the highest point 30 metres.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on firmware 2.90 and have the Altimeter to calibrate continuously..
> 
> 
> Not happy at all..
> 
> 
> Compared to the Ambit 2, it's chalk and cheese.


Thanks.

As it's on auto calibrate it seems to give too much weight to GPS altitude. Maybe if you just calibrate it once it would be better, however it should work as FusedAlti on paper. How is FusedAlti in this respect? Another odd thing is your start and end altitude are -15 m, yet your ascent is 18 and descent 36 m, but it should be the same.

I have to say I had the F3 preordered but cancelled due to reported problems with accuracy and altitude. I've been following Garmin forums closely and have found ascent and descent data very inconsistent.

So I'll stick to my Ambit for the time being.


----------



## kris-o

Glajda said:


> I have to say I had the F3 preordered but cancelled due to reported problems with accuracy and altitude. I've been following Garmin forums closely and have found ascent and descent data very inconsistent.
> 
> So I'll stick to my Ambit for the time being.


Me too - there are so many different issues that it doesnt make sense to buy half-baked product...


----------



## martowl

Glajda said:


> Thanks.
> 
> As it's on auto calibrate it seems to give too much weight to GPS altitude. Maybe if you just calibrate it once it would be better, however it should work as FusedAlti on paper. How is FusedAlti in this respect? Another odd thing is your start and end altitude are -15 m, yet your ascent is 18 and descent 36 m, but it should be the same.
> 
> I have to say I had the F3 preordered but cancelled due to reported problems with accuracy and altitude. I've been following Garmin forums closely and have found ascent and descent data very inconsistent.
> 
> So I'll stick to my Ambit for the time being.


I have found FusedAlti to be amazingly consistent but most of my runs have 750' or more elevation gain/loss. I had a few Garmins and while some of the features I would like, I need a watch that works. So far, my Suunto does well although I think the 3 series has more HR issues.


----------



## martowl

raducanmihai said:


> I can't do more than 15-20 km run/hike in a day because of bilateral total hip replacement, so water drainage is not a big problem for me. They don't have the time to become uncomfortable, but even if they do, with a (very) good pair of socks I can overcome this problem . But you are correct, they don't drain well and they are on the heavy side.
> 
> Back to watches: I follow Garmin thread to convince myself I made the right choice going with Ambit 3. So far I'm on the fence because I had to return my first Ambit 3.
> 
> Fenix 3 has a lot features that I'd like to see in Ambit 4. Among the most important are:
> - vibrating alert
> - size (Ambit wears big)
> - Ant+ and Bluetooth
> - ability to edit sport modes on the watch
> - virtual racer (ability to compare yourself with a previous recorded track, step by step)
> - 4 data screens per page.
> 
> I would also like to see a better designed Movescount web interface.
> 
> From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


I agree with you in part but the battery life on the Peak is important to me and the new improvements in battery life coming along are great. I would rather have the bigger watch. However, you would likely be happy with the barometer in the Sport model. Suunto should offer that and have two Sport models, one with and one without the barometer. That would give you a smaller watch.


----------



## morey000

my $0.02



raducanmihai said:


> ...
> Fenix 3 has a lot features that I'd like to see in Ambit 4. Among the most important are:
> - vibrating alert *Yeah- that's a biggie!*
> - size (Ambit wears big) *It's that antenna piece that makes the Ambits wear 'bigger'. Plus, the new F3 is only 16mm thick- about the thickness of a 2S or 3Sport. The new Fenix 3 has better packaging.*
> - Ant+ and Bluetooth *Keeping in mind, that the bluetooth is only for smartphone communication. it won't pick up bluetooth sensors, only ANT+. so I don't see this as an advantage, as much as it is just a 'difference'.*
> - ability to edit sport modes on the watch *So what happens when your Fenix crashes- do you lose all your setup? Or is it recoverable somewhere? Frankly, I have my phone with me pretty much all the time. Given the complexity of the watch- It's really easier to do it on line. Or is this just sour grapes talking?*
> - virtual racer (ability to compare yourself with a previous recorded track, step by step) *Nice feature*
> - 4 data screens per page.* The Ambit setup, of having a page that displays 3, but with a rotating bottom field- is actually a pretty neat feature. I like it. Not sure that I'd like the fenix setup better.*
> 
> ...


I'd add being able to program in complex track workouts is another advantage of the Fenix- however, this has been taken care of with some pretty impressive app generators for the Ambits.

Another question. Programming a basic app for the Ambits is fairly easy. Even for a non-coder such as myself. I've made quite a few of them to fit my needs. I have no idea how easy/accessible it is to do on the Fenix. i.e. to create specific calculated variables for race/pace prediction and such. ??

Current favorite unique feature of the Ambits (that the Fenixes don't have): Being able to set up a swim move- to read from my wrist mounted optical HR monitor. I can see my HR while I'm swimming! so cool.


----------



## raducanmihai

Copy/paste from Garmin developer web site:

"Monkey C — A New Programming Language

The backbone of the Connect IQ SDK is the new language that we built from the ground up. This language,.Monkey C, should be familiar if you already know languages like Java™, Ruby and Python. Monkey C was created to round out the sharp edges of writing apps for wearable devices. It lets you focus on the user and less on resource constraints."

In theory it should be more powerful. In practice, it takes (a lot) more knowledge. The limitation of an app not being able to use the results of Garmin's algorithms is a big, big issue. Also, only 2 custom data fields per activity, which are not recorded (only displayed!), is another big limitation. 


From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## morey000

I wouldn't see myself creating a full blown app or widget. More like just a calculated data field or two, for specific races for myself.

Perhaps it's because I don't own the right device (yet), but I don't see anything on garmin connect that is the equivalent of the movescount App Zone. Is there such a place?


----------



## rdm01

morey000 said:


> I wouldn't see myself creating a full blown app or widget. More like just a calculated data field or two, for specific races for myself.
> 
> Perhaps it's because I don't own the right device (yet), but I don't see anything on garmin connect that is the equivalent of the movescount App Zone. Is there such a place?


You have to sign up as a developer and when you finish your app send it and they publish (something like google play out apple store), I guess


----------



## raducanmihai

morey000 said:


> Perhaps it's because I don't own the right device (yet), but I don't see anything on garmin connect that is the equivalent of the movescount App Zone. Is there such a place?


https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/

From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## miguelq

SavageSS said:


> Altitude accuracy.
> 
> 
> For example if you look at this run,
> https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/720921824
> it was at along the river, with running up stars to the top of a cliff face and back, x 4 times.
> I started the run with calibrating the F3 to 6 Metres (and the watch was set to continuously calibrate). At the base of the stairs it should had been around 3 Metres, at the top of the stairs, 30 metres
> 
> 
> So after calibrating it, I did my run. As you can see it had it change to -16 Metres!
> Straight away it is 22m out of adjustment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then re-adjusted it around the 9:11 min mark to 6 Metres (this was a guess) it then dropped down to -15metres.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole course should have been around at the lowest point 3metres, and the highest point 30 metres.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on firmware 2.90 and have the Altimeter to calibrate continuously..
> 
> 
> Not happy at all..
> 
> 
> Compared to the Ambit 2, it's chalk and cheese.


I was about to order the F3 when I came across this thread and might wait a bit before ordering my new watch. Have you tried all the steps recommended by DCRainmaker at Garmin Fenix3 Multisport GPS Watch In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker


----------



## SavageSS

It's called Connect IQ
Link > https://apps.garmin.com

More I use the F3 watch, the more I wish it was like the Ambit's.

I often do did Circuit Training. Yet there's no such activity on the watch or Garmin Connect to match it up to. Not even Cross training.
No Moutain biking activity on the watch, at least I can copy the Cycle activity, modify it and rename it, although it still keeps the "Road Cycle" Imagery)

Even their app when view your run / ride etc, uses the worlds thickest line of your track, that consumes the width of a typical road..

Altimeter sucks no matter what setting is used.

I can't wait to see what the Ambit 4 does and hope it brings the following from the F3

Colour screen
Higher resolution screen
Vibration alerts!!!!
Able to zoom in and out more than just two presets 
Bread crumb track (this I really like on the F3, you can see the track you have mapped out, and see the track you have actually taken, very cool)
Internal Antenna, so you can use normal watch bands.
Fitness tracker (I think this is already in the A3) + sleep tracking.
Virtual runner !
Custom alerts ( usually have it set to alert if running slower than X, and another if my heart rate goes above X)


----------



## boudaj

To raducanmihai: Hi, how do you manage HR monitoring in indoor swimming? I have Ambit2 And Scosche Rhythm+ wrist HRM. I can detect my Hr underwater with no problem, but I did not find out, how to incorporate IT in indoor swimming. Can you help? Thanks


----------



## raducanmihai

I sold my Ambit 2 and never had a Scosche Rhythm but, if I remember correctly, you have the option to record HR data during a swim. 

Try this: 

1. Pair your Rythm with your Ambit 2 as a heart rate belt, 
2. Edit your indoor (pool) swimming activity to search for HR belt (check the box "HR belt" from "PODs to search" menu), edit a display so HR is shown (not mandatory). 
3. Save it and sync your Ambit 2 with Moveslink2 (so new settings to be transfered to your watch), 
4. Go for a swim with your Ambit 2 and Rythm on the same arm, as close as possible (touching each other) because ANT/ANT+ signal can't travel/go for more than a few cm under water. 
5. Tell us if it worked. 


From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## boudaj

The problem is that Movescount does not allow any "PODs to search" for swimming modes (at least for my gear-Ambit2). On the ather side, if a create a new sport mode which allows PODs to search, it does not offer swimming data. So, I have combination which works perfectly(Ambit2 and Scosche on the same wrist next to each other), but I can have only HR data (for example recorded as indoor training) or swim data, but not both at the same time. Maybe it is possible only for Ambit3? What combination do you have - Ambit3 and what HRM? Thank you.



raducanmihai said:


> I sold my Ambit 2 and never had a Scosche Rhythm but, if I remember correctly, you have the option to record HR data during a swim.
> 
> Try this:
> 
> 1. Pair your Rythm with your Ambit 2 as a heart rate belt,
> 2. Edit your indoor (pool) swimming activity to search for HR belt (check the box "HR belt" from "PODs to search" menu), edit a display so HR is shown (not mandatory).
> 3. Save it and sync your Ambit 2 with Moveslink2 (so new settings to be transfered to your watch),
> 4. Go for a swim with your Ambit 2 and Rythm on the same arm, as close as possible (touching each other) because ANT/ANT+ signal can't travel/go for more than a few cm under water.
> 5. Tell us if it worked.
> 
> From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## raducanmihai

I'm sorry to hear it doesn't work. I have an Ambit 3 Peak with HR belt, the one that comes with it. 

On Ambit 3 you have the option to search for HR belt in swimming modes. And the HR belt has memory, so even if your watch and transmitter are not in range (distance, under water, etc) the transmitter records all of this data and when in range of the watch it dumps the data (but I don't know how big the memory is). 

So you can't really see it underwater unless you keep your watch and transmitter next to each other. But when you finish a lap and you rest that is when data is transferred. And, of course, all of this is also recorded for later analysis. 

From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## margusl

boudaj said:


> The problem is that Movescount does not allow any "PODs to search" for swimming modes (at least for my gear-Ambit2). On the ather side, if a create a new sport mode which allows PODs to search, it does not offer swimming data./../


Have you tried changing sports mode with HR to swimming as described in https://www.watchuseek.com/f233/ambit2-hr-while-swimming-1072228.html ?


----------



## boudaj

Yes! I have got it. The clue was to click directly to the text to ungrey PODs boxes. I will try new HR swimming during weekend. Thanks


----------



## Skijeti

boudaj said:


> Yes! I have got it. The clue was to click directly to the text to ungrey PODs boxes. I will try new HR swimming during weekend. Thanks


I would love to hear a feedback on this matter so please share your impressions about Rhythm+ and ambit2 swim results.


----------



## TrainingJames

So does anyone have an idea on timeline for the Ambit4? 


byasini said:


> Guys!
> 
> I have a friend in an Italian design company and she told me that Suunto is ordering a package design for a new Ambit! I will update you if I receive more news.
> 
> Fenix 3 is a very powerful competitor so I think Ambit 4 will be a great piece.
> 
> I assume there would be android wear watch!


----------



## boudaj

Hi Skijeti,

I have finally tested my Ambit2 with Rhythm+ in pool. I have created a new sport mode "pool swimming HR" according to above mentioned instruction. I have several screens with diatance, time, speed....and HR. ANT+ connection between A2 and Scosche works great (same wrist, next to each other). You can see your data during swim and later in Movescount without problem. You can create something similar for openwater (have not tested yet). The original strap has a tendency to slip from the wrist therefore I use a safety pin on it!

Good luck

Jiri


Skijeti said:


> I would love to hear a feedback on this matter so please share your impressions about Rhythm+ and ambit2 swim results.


----------



## raducanmihai

Based on the discounts that are popping up all over the place, I think we can expect a new Ambit quite soon. It is exactly what happened last year before Ambit 3 was released (june or july as I remember).

For example (this is where I bought mine from: Bike24 - Suunto Ambit3 Peak Sapphire GPS Watch SS020676000) you can have an Ambit 3 Peak Sapphire w/HR for a little over 400 euros. A few days ago it was 400 euros, so it goes up and down a little.

I'm honestly torn between wanting a new Ambit with all the bells and whistles and knowing I'm going to lose money selling my 2-3 months old Ambit 3. No matter what they come up with, I'm going to wait for a few (hopefully honest and comprehensive) reviews. I was screwed once by Sony with their Xperia Z2 phone, buying it before any review came up and I had to sell it a big loss due to overheating issues taking pictures and videos. That was my last Sony phone. Fool me once...


----------



## pjc3

raducanmihai said:


> Based on the discounts that are popping up all over the place, I think we can expect a new Ambit quite soon. It is exactly what happened last year before Ambit 3 was released (june or july as I remember).
> .


But Suunto still have plans for A3:



> Suunto Ambit3 Peak software update, later in spring 2015Sleep recovery and quick recovery tests with new running performance functionality and new languages bring the watch to a new level.


I think A4 is not just around the corner.


----------



## bruceames

Probably will be at least the fall before the A4 comes out. Price drops are also indicative of lower than expected sales, not just impending new releases. I think Suunto is getting hammered by stiffer competition from Garmin (for the first time Suunto doesn't have the best looking watch) and the smart watches that are coming out. It also didn't help that the A3 debuted at $100 more than the A2. And then you had the long delay in getting an Android app (which are the majority of users) But even if it came out sooner, no reason to wait since the A3's are selling a good $200 cheaper than the A4's will. I don't mind waiting 6-12 months after a watch to come out to wait for a better price (especially if I just bought an earlier model at a better price, lol). Besides, I don't think Suunto is ready with an android app for the A4 (if they aren't with the A3, how could they be with the A4?), and I don't think they be in a rush to launch it without being fully ready for both platforms. The A3 was rushed a little, and it's only been 8 months since it launched.


----------



## pjc3

bruceames said:


> And then you had the long delay in getting an Android app (*which are the majority of users*)


How do you figure that?

Sure, Android has global percentage of all mobile OS but specific for Suunto Ambit users?


----------



## bruceames

pjc3 said:


> How do you figure that?
> 
> Sure, Android has global percentage of all mobile OS but specific for Suunto Ambit users?


It's not even up for debate. Globally Android is 85 percent of the market, with iPhone around 12 percent. With that lopsided a share overall, it would be extremely unlikely for the majority of Suunto users to own an iPhone over an Android phone.


----------



## pjc3

That is world wide as I inferred. In US & UK iOS is up around 40% and perhaps the market which Suunto is aimed at will have even higher iOS share.


----------



## bruceames

pjc3 said:


> That is world wide as I inferred. In US & UK iOS is up around 40% and perhaps the market which Suunto is aimed at will have even higher iOS share.


Yes, you're right. It could be possible after all. Even I bought an iPhone.


----------



## kris-o

I also am using iPhone- that makes 100% of market share ... in 2 posts in this thread 

As for prices going down - in Poland A3 prices went up around 30-40% lately. Not sure why it happened - maybe bad Fenix 3 reviews and tons of issues are giving Suunto hope to sell more Ambits?
Or is it just retailer reading Garmin Forums...? I tried asking the retailer but they did not reply


----------



## raducanmihai

It's 66%, I'm an Android guy 


From Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk


----------



## morey000

But the techie fitness community is overwhelmingly iOS. i.e. the people that buy Ambits.


----------



## danielp27

i have read the following here: Movescount Android Beta | Suunto


> I want to share some data with you about devices we've logged using the beta. Android Movescount beta has been downloaded to 483 unique Android devices during this week alone. The top 10 devices being used for the Movescount Android beta are


just 483? given the noise in the facebook site and here during the last months, it seems a very low number, doesn't it? does anybody have an estimation, how many ambit3 are there out there?


----------



## kmseteam

danielp27 said:


> i have read the following here: Movescount Android Beta | Suunto
> 
> just 483? given the noise in the facebook site and here during the last months, it seems a very low number, doesn't it? does anybody have an estimation, how many ambit3 are there out there?


There was an error. I also wondered that and checked, it was that many feedbacks were given at that time. Google Play says 10000-50000 downloads at this moment.


----------



## margusl

dcrainmaker provided mobile OS share stats based on his visitors -

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/593469231536218113 That's growd who's into using handhelds for browsing and also has interest for sports gadgets. As far as I'm concered, this rough estimate can be close to actual market share among those who would actually consider $300+ gps-watch purchace. If you look arond, it does not have to make sence, in my region and among people I know using gps-watches (whatever brand, whatever model), there's not a single iphone user (that I'm aware of  )

Android phones and tablets also cover huge spectrum of price range compared to i-devices, and people who go for more affordable Android phones aren't clearly same people who Suunto sees as their main target for lates-greatest devices. Yet all Android usesr contribute to those global 85% share claims, many with more than one device.


----------



## bruceames

morey000 said:


> But the techie fitness community is overwhelmingly iOS. i.e. the people that buy Ambits.


Lol, I had no idea. I do like my new iPhone better, although the idea of owning an Apple product is still growing on me. Maybe I'll just get both feet wet this summer and get a Mac as well (for Rubitracks).


----------



## bruceames

margusl said:


> dcrainmaker provided mobile OS share stats based on his visitors -
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/593469231536218113 That's growd who's into using handhelds for browsing and also has interest for sports gadgets. As far as I'm concered, this rough estimate can be close to actual market share among those who would actually consider $300+ gps-watch purchace. If you look arond, it does not have to make sence, in my region and among people I know using gps-watches (whatever brand, whatever model), there's not a single iphone user (that I'm aware of  )
> 
> Android phones and tablets also cover huge spectrum of price range compared to i-devices, and people who go for more affordable Android phones aren't clearly same people who Suunto sees as their main target for lates-greatest devices. Yet all Android usesr contribute to those global 85% share claims, many with more than one device.


Very interesting, 2/3 are ios users. So my 85% Android pie chart isn't worth much anymore here, isn't it?


----------



## ModestGP

Just had to say it....

I'm an Android user!!


----------



## kris-o

Android number will be sky-high in general, due to the fact that these devices do come cheap. I saw some poll among smartphone users - i think that around 60% of them wasnt aware that they do have smartphone 
Operators give cheap samsungs, lgs etc. for 1Euro, there are Chinese phones with 13 cores ;-) etc etc


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Just look at the devices / device makers in the list of Android app downloads (given on the MC Android app blog)... I thought I knew most smartphone makers (hey, years in China...) but there were quite a few surprises in there. As in, Huh? That's a smartphone brand?

Also, one of the big questions would be how many Ambits are sold, how many people don't even connect theirs with Movescount / their PC, how many fewer never download any app for their Ambit. That's one of the big "problems" with Watchuseek, actually: It tends to be a very vocal and early-adopter crowd on here. Very interesting - and hardly representative.

(I'm trying out a fenix3 now vs. my Ambit3 Peak, and I'm finding myself not being quite techy enough to really care so much about some of the things it does differently. So, I wonder what to talk about in the end. Then again, I've been close to Suunto for so long (and just applied for the customer engagement position that was recently open) that I have to take extra care I'm not just being fanboyish  )


----------



## kris-o

How do you feel about Fenix 3? I was really counting on that watch but now i am not so sure anymore. I know that the forum will be flooded with unhappy (it always is) but it seems that there is actually some problem with the accuracy and various stability issues.
Since i mostly swim and bike, probably GPS accuracy problem wouldnt affect me (it is supposed to be strongly present in weak signal conditions).
I just felt Android "deja vu" after reading some threads on Garmin, where people suggested to reboot the watch every morning... In my case, i was rebooting my Android phone every night, because it was draining battery otherwise.
I wear my Ambit as a normal watch so it is hard to imagine that i look at it and it is stuck or battery went dead after 10 hours...


----------



## rickNP

kris-o said:


> How do you feel about Fenix 3? I was really counting on that watch but now i am not so sure anymore. I know that the forum will be flooded with unhappy (it always is) but it seems that there is actually some problem with the accuracy and various stability issues.
> Since i mostly swim and bike, probably GPS accuracy problem wouldnt affect me (it is supposed to be strongly present in weak signal conditions).
> I just felt Android "deja vu" after reading some threads on Garmin, where people suggested to reboot the watch every morning... In my case, i was rebooting my Android phone every night, because it was draining battery otherwise.
> I wear my Ambit as a normal watch so it is hard to imagine that i look at it and it is stuck or battery went dead after 10 hours...


Hi everyone, I'm just a lurker and found this forum while looking up Ambit 4 rumors.

Anyway, I've been a long-time Garmin user and returned my Fenix3 because it just couldn't get accurate results, for pretty much every run I did with it. It ws routinely 2% to 12% short of any other device I used with it. I do a lot of pace-based workouts for road running and this resulted in some of my paces needing to be pushed as much as 30+ seconds faster than I should have been running, so it needed to be resolved somehow. I loved nearly everything else about the watch, though, but it couldn't do its core functionality properly so back it went. Since then I've switched back to my FR620, and then last week bought my first Ambit, the 2R, since it was on sale for $149US. I'm very happy with the A2R, and especially for that price, it's been nearly spot-on with my FR620 so far, but of course do miss many things that the Fenix3 had. If the A4 is released and has vibration alerts, I may make a permanent switch over to Suunto, at least for trailrunning.


----------



## bruceames

Totally agree. Accuracy and reliability come first. It seems Garmin really screwed up on the F3 antenna and it's probably not fixable via FW update (otherwise, they wouldn't be denying there's a problem). I think in order to get a leg up on Suunto regarding form factor and watch design, they sacrificed something, and GPS accuracy is it. The A3 has that huge antenna but it's like that for a reason and it works.


----------



## Krispy Run

bruceames said:


> Totally agree. Accuracy and reliability come first. It seems Garmin really screwed up on the F3 antenna and it's probably not fixable via FW update (otherwise, they wouldn't be denying there's a problem). I think in order to get a leg up on Suunto regarding form factor and watch design, they sacrificed something, and GPS accuracy is it. The A3 has that huge antenna but it's like that for a reason and it works.


I'm glad I switched to the A3 as it's more accurate than the F3 when on trails under cover. However, it is quite a bit behind the F3 in terms of features and form factor. If Garmin can fix the F3 accuracy issue via software, I'd switch back and the Ambit4 would need to be a significant upgrade to complete against it.


----------



## paul1928

I still use a foot pod with my A3 for pace-based workouts. I find it far more consistent, especially when my trail is going through tunnels or hiding under a freeway.


----------



## Teriemer

paul1928 said:


> I still use a foot pod with my A3 for pace-based workouts. I find it far more consistent, especially when my trail is going through tunnels or hiding under a freeway.


I used to so as well, with all my previous devices. But with the A3 I find no need for a footpod. Add to this, I'm very kean on accurate pace too. Also much of my running is in the forrest - again without issues. I do occasional see small high/lows in pace (that's about +/- 20 sec.) but the A3 always settle in in about 10-20 sec.

I cannot see the A3 needs a footpod (though admittedly I have thought of it, but that is related to old habit, not true need).

Edit:
I just bought a second hand footpod. So I'll do some testing the coming days. I'll report my findings in here ;-)


----------



## ultraBadger

I thought I'd give this thread a little bump. Has anyone heard anything new about the next generation Ambit? I skipped the Ambit3 because my Ambit2 is serving me well enough, but I'm admittedly getting antsy for something new.


----------



## zipuni

ultraBadger said:


> I thought I'd give this thread a little bump. Has anyone heard anything new about the next generation Ambit? I skipped the Ambit3 because my Ambit2 is serving me well enough, but I'm admittedly getting antsy for something new.


Also giving this thread a little bump. I hope A4 comes out in July with the much desired vibration alerts, larger 3-field data screens and new API calls for Apps!


----------



## Krispy Run

zipuni said:


> Also giving this thread a little bump. I hope A4 comes out in July with the much desired vibration alerts, larger 3-field data screens and new API calls for Apps!


I'm also hoping for July/Aug Ambit4. My wishlist:
* Vibration Alerts
* Improved map screen (multi-zoom, view waypoints/routes nearby during move when not navigating)
* Higher-resolution color display
* Design/form factor update

I'm new to Suunto. Do they generally release new Ambit's at this time of year and are they usually available to purchase soon after release?


----------



## rickNP

Krispy Run said:


> I'm new to Suunto. Do they generally release new Ambit's at this time of year and are they usually available to purchase soon after release?


Their rather short track record seems to suggest a mid-summer announcement with an approximate September release. Coupled with some of the closeout deals on Ambit2s and now some models of Ambit3 at places like REI and Suunto's own webstore has me hopeful an announcement will be soon. Nonetheless, I couldn't resist an Ambit3Peak at $375US, so I purchased it. Results are mixed against my Garmin FR620 and Fenix3 (repurchased after latest GPS firmware update).


----------



## Krispy Run

rickNP said:


> Their rather short track record seems to suggest a mid-summer announcement with an approximate September release. Coupled with some of the closeout deals on Ambit2s and now some models of Ambit3 at places like REI and Suunto's own webstore has me hopeful an announcement will be soon. Nonetheless, I couldn't resist an Ambit3Peak at $375US, so I purchased it. Results are mixed against my Garmin FR620 and Fenix3 (repurchased after latest GPS firmware update).


Thanks rickNP. That's a great price for the Ambit3Peak. As a former F3 owner that returned the watch due to poor pace/corner cutting on trails, I am curious what you think of the F3 on the latest firmware. From what I can tell from their forums, some still see issues.


----------



## rickNP

Krispy Run said:


> Thanks rickNP. That's a great price for the Ambit3Peak. As a former F3 owner that returned the watch due to poor pace/corner cutting on trails, I am curious what you think of the F3 on the latest firmware. From what I can tell from their forums, some still see issues.


Yeah, I'm one of those posting my disappointment on the forums occasionally. I just posted this about my comparison from yesterday:

So far the Ambit3 has underreported distance vs my FR620 (which I usually trust) and my Fenix3 (which I don't), to the degree that it reminds me of the earlier versions of Fenix3 firmware. Yesterday I was prepared to give the Fenix3 the win on my trail running vs the Ambit 3 when I decided to stop to take some pictures. I rarely use Autopause, so let all devices do their thing while I spent 5 or so minutes taking some pictures. In that time the FR620 bounced around quite a bit, but the Fenix3 was off the rails and added 0.1mi. Incredulous to this, I texted a friend about it, and while standing still and using my phone the Fenix3 added another 0.04mi. The Ambit3 seems to do a pretty good job of deciding to ignore GPS data when its accelerometers are detecting minimal movement, so when I overlay the tracks in mygpsfiles the A3 clearly wins the day solely because I decided to stop several times and don't use autopause.

As a PS to this, I ran again last night on roads and didn't stop until the end of my run, and the FR620 and Fenix3 ended within 0.01mi of each other, whereas the Ambit3 was 0.07mi short of the Fenix3, right on the fringes of acceptability (just over 1%). I'm confident in the 620's measurement.


----------



## Krispy Run

rickNP said:


> Yeah, I'm one of those posting my disappointment on the forums occasionally. I just posted this about my comparison from yesterday:
> 
> So far the Ambit3 has underreported distance vs my FR620 (which I usually trust) and my Fenix3 (which I don't), to the degree that it reminds me of the earlier versions of Fenix3 firmware. Yesterday I was prepared to give the Fenix3 the win on my trail running vs the Ambit 3 when I decided to stop to take some pictures. I rarely use Autopause, so let all devices do their thing while I spent 5 or so minutes taking some pictures. In that time the FR620 bounced around quite a bit, but the Fenix3 was off the rails and added 0.1mi. Incredulous to this, I texted a friend about it, and while standing still and using my phone the Fenix3 added another 0.04mi. The Ambit3 seems to do a pretty good job of deciding to ignore GPS data when its accelerometers are detecting minimal movement, so when I overlay the tracks in mygpsfiles the A3 clearly wins the day solely because I decided to stop several times and don't use autopause.
> 
> As a PS to this, I ran again last night on roads and didn't stop until the end of my run, and the FR620 and Fenix3 ended within 0.01mi of each other, whereas the Ambit3 was 0.07mi short of the Fenix3, right on the fringes of acceptability (just over 1%). I'm confident in the 620's measurement.


That is surprising. I run with someone who uses a 620 and my Ambit is usually very close in distance to it on trail runs. The Ambit altimeter seems to be more accurate and requires less attention than the F3 for me. It's great to hear your F3 is improved with the new update. After what I went through with my F3 and Garmin, I'm happy to wait and see what the F4 will bring.


----------



## rickNP

Krispy Run said:


> That is surprising. I run with someone who uses a 620 and my Ambit is usually very close in distance to it on trail runs. The Ambit altimeter seems to be more accurate and requires less attention than the F3 for me. It's great to hear your F3 is improved with the new update. After what I went through with my F3 and Garmin, I'm happy to wait and see what the F4 will bring.


Well I've only had the watch for 3 runs so far, so the jury's still out as far as I'm concerned. I have 45 miles to run this week so we'll see how it shakes out after that.

Sorry folks, since this has veered off-topic!


----------



## rjmccannuk

Just joined, this is a great forum! I'm looking at my first gps watch and was close to buying an Ambit 3 until I realised a 4 may be announced soon, so I'm going to hold off. The Garmin watches look good but I have a garmin bike computer and having had some bad experiences with that and Garmin customer support, I won't be another Garmin product. Here's hoping for an Ambit 4 announcement sooner rather than later, I have a few triathlons coming up and its going to help me a lot with my training


----------



## wydim

rjmccannuk said:


> Just joined, this is a great forum! I'm looking at my first gps watch and was close to buying an Ambit 3 until I realised a 4 may be announced soon, so I'm going to hold off. The Garmin watches look good but I have a garmin bike computer and having had some bad experiences with that and Garmin customer support, I won't be another Garmin product. Here's hoping for an Ambit 4 announcement sooner rather than later, I have a few triathlons coming up and its going to help me a lot with my training


Hello rjmccannuk, Welcome to the forum.

The announcement is rumored to be by the end of July. But the official release would be much later, in September/October possibly. And even then, it might be limited availability. All said, even I would wait for A4 even if I didn't already have a GPS watch for the Tri's this summer


----------



## morey000

wydim said:


> ...even I would wait for A4 even if I didn't already have a GPS watch for the Tri's this summer


If it looks as good as the Fenix3 and works as well as my Ambit 2, and will take both Bluetooth and ANT+ devices... I'm sold.

but, what features (or packaging) are you waiting for that would make you hold out for it?


----------



## bruceames

Either way you really can't go wrong. If you wait for the A4, you get the latest and greatest, but pay full price. If you don't, you get the A3, a great watch as well, but for quite a bit less than what it originally cost. I had the A2, but waited on the A3 because it was only an incremental upgrade, expensive, and released at a bad time of year for me (near the end of the season). So I picked it up this spring instead and saved some money. Who knows what I'll do when the A4 comes out, but I doubt I'll buy it this year. I gotta get some more mileage out the A3 first, and by then the A4 will be cheaper too (so it's a win-win).


----------



## wydim

morey000 said:


> If it looks as good as the Fenix3 and works as well as my Ambit 2, and will take both Bluetooth and ANT+ devices... I'm sold.
> 
> but, what features (or packaging) are you waiting for that would make you hold out for it?


Since you quoted me, I imagine the question is directed to me (but could also be to rjmccanuck).

It's exactly what you said. it will be bluetooth but it also HAS to be ANT+. Bluetooth because connecting to my phone would be a nice to have (and SUUNTO is never going to go back, BL is here to stay). ANT+ because of my cycle home trainer that is ANT+ only.

If not, I will hold on to my dear (and working flawlessly) Ambit2 for another year.


----------



## rdm01

Hi guys!

Take a look to this picture from Emilie F. facebook









Which one the ambit Killian wore? It's white but it isn't ambit2 or ambit3...


----------



## TS149

What is she wearing in her website photo?

Emelie Forsberg


----------



## wydim

ahhh love it !!! The rumor machine is _running_ well !! ..._running... _well... get it ? okay, no... yeah... sorry... going back to work


----------



## morey000

Looks like a white Ambit 3 to me. 
*everything* else Killian is wearing, is from Salomon.


----------



## austriker

Oh man, rumors of an ambit4, I just bought my first suunto, the A3, did I jump in the deep end too soon???!!

EDIT: I actually bought the A2.. not 3..


----------



## urtenmurtel

austriker said:


> Oh man, rumors of an ambit4, I just bought my first suunto, the A3, did I jump in the deep end too soon???!!


Hey if you havent yet missed the Ant+ support, vibration alert or very advanced navigation features, then the A3 is very likely to be a fantastic watch that will serve you well for a long time (and who knows which of the mentioned features will actually be implemented in A4). I am running with a A2 and really dont have a single reason to upgrade.


----------



## sbarbi

Emelie in her profile Movescount uses ambit3 sport.
In her website photo probably uses ambit3 sport white


----------



## anto1980

There not will be any Ambit4, but a completely new family of smartwatch!


austriker said:


> Oh man, rumors of an ambit4, I just bought my first suunto, the A3, did I jump in the deep end too soon???!!


----------



## austriker

urtenmurtel said:


> Hey if you havent yet missed the Ant+ support, vibration alert or very advanced navigation features, then the A3 is very likely to be a fantastic watch that will serve you well for a long time (and who knows which of the mentioned features will actually be implemented in A4). I am running with a A2 and really dont have a single reason to upgrade.


Oops! Typo! (I was on mobile, sidenote is there a WUS app? or mobile site?) .. I actually bought the A2, I looked at the differences and didnt think I would miss the few additional add-ons to the A3.. thus I guess I certainly wouldn't miss an A4.. I cant believe I didnt look at Suunto's earlier, is EXACTLY what ive been looking for..


----------



## margusl

austriker said:


> (I was on mobile, sidenote is there a WUS app? or mobile site?)


https://tapatalk.com/


----------



## morey000

anto1980 said:


> There not will be any Ambit4, but a completely new family of smartwatch!


really? where did this info come from? what else can you share?


----------



## matej123

anto1980 said:


> There not will be any Ambit4, but a completely new family of smartwatch!


 Hmm, please do tell more, very important inforamtion for me, i am deciding now witch watch to buy. Please share informations.


----------



## anto1980

I think we need to wait until the end of the year...


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## matej123

anto1980 said:


> I think we need to wait until the end of the year...
> 
> Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk


 Ok, but can you tell is there lot of new tehnologys and improvements comming, or just new design or something?


----------



## anto1980

I don't know. I imagine color display...etc


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## emac44

I have a 2 S Sapphire now. I really like everything I have heard about the 3 Peak, but I am a woman with small wrists and I really like the slightly smaller feel of the white 2S (which looks much like the white 3 Sport). I do not want a watch, even one as cool as the Peak, that fits like my husband's watch.

Assuming Suunto reads this -- I am asking for an Ambit 4 or even a 3 Peak in white with the white band (a vibe alert would also be nice...), thanks!


----------



## jphelp32

@rickNP, sorry for the duplicate of my post on G's forum (not sure which you'll see first)... I'm curious now it's been a little longer, what are you thoughts between the A3 and F3?
thanks


----------



## rickNP

jphelp32 said:


> @rickNP, sorry for the duplicate of my post on G's forum (not sure which you'll see first)... I'm curious now it's been a little longer, what are you thoughts between the A3 and F3?
> thanks


Hi jphelp,

I returned my second F3, after the GPS update. After I got the A3Peak I ran with it, the F3 and my FR620 a few different times. I was surprised that the FR620 and F3 were clocking in approximately the same, within reason. The GPS update did appear to improve the F3, but at the expense of a more erratic track. This is with a wide-open view of the sky, as well. The final straw was when I went for one trail run in particular and was ready to give the F3 the win over the A3P, but then out-of-nowhere the F3 added 0.15mi to my distance while I was standing still, over just a few minutes' time.

When I inspected all three watches' tracks through mygpsfiles.com/app, I found that it seems the Ambit3 does a really good job of using the watch's accelerometers to determine if I'm moving or not; if I'm not, it doesn't add each second's track to its log, so the track appears more stable and representative of reality. But both the FR620 and F3 added a GPS position every second, so were at the mercy of just how accurate each device's reception was at the time. This took my track somewhat off the rails, for both watches. The F3 was just very egregious and unacceptable, so back it went.

I've since re-purchased the FR920XT and am very happy with it. I don't know what I'll do with the Ambit3. I might keep it since I bought it on sale but that $375 would be nice to have back.


----------



## HIKESOLO

Really hoping we hear something in the next few days. I believe Ambit 3 was originally announced in July last year. Hoping the answer to the Fenix 3 pops up soon!


----------



## Quotron

EatPlayLift said:


> Really hoping we hear something in the next few days. I believe Ambit 3 was originally announced in July last year. Hoping the answer to the Fenix 3 pops up soon!


I do not believe that, historically, the Ambits have been on a 12 month refresh cycle...


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

EatPlayLift said:


> Really hoping we hear something in the next few days. I believe Ambit 3 was originally announced in July last year. Hoping the answer to the Fenix 3 pops up soon!


It doesn't; we won't.*

Now go back out and play.

*How I know? Was at the OutDoor...


----------



## margusl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> *How I know? Was at the OutDoor...


So 'outdoor fitness' category listed for Salomon still translated to Suunto? 
Sneaky bastards


----------



## matej123

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> It doesn't; we won't.*
> 
> Now go back out and play.
> 
> *How I know? Was at the OutDoor...


Ok thanks for informations. I know you cannot talk of it, but please just tell what type this new watch will be? For runners, hikers, multisport watch, premium watch, middle/low class watch, core sucessor or something different. And when you predict Ambit4 will come? Maybe at the end of the year, spring next year or... Thanks in advance.


----------



## ModestGP

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> It doesn't; we won't.*
> 
> Now go back out and play.
> 
> *How I know? Was at the OutDoor...


Come on!! Give us some clues!!
You can't leave us like this... :-(


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

MG Designs said:


> Come on!! Give us some clues!!
> You can't leave us like this... :-(


Main conclusion to draw is this: A successor to the Ambit3 is *not* coming this year.


----------



## ModestGP

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Main conclusion to draw is this: A successor to the Ambit3 is *not* coming this year.


I know, I know, you already stated this.
But what features does it has?
(I know that you probably won't answer this question, but just trying ).


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Main conclusion to draw is this: A successor to the Ambit3 is *not* coming this year.


Gerald, this is why I always ask you the questions.....you have the answers


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

martowl said:


> Gerald, this is why I always ask you the questions.....you have the answers


Not nearly as many as I'd like to have... Even so, finding your statement soon after I found out that I've been considered oh-so-arrogant again just made my day


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Not nearly as many as I'd like to have... Even so, finding your statement soon after I found out that I've been considered oh-so-arrogant again just made my day


The link you gave said it all, no photos provided because of an NDA. I have dealt with NDAs before....not a good idea to break them. Again, thanks for the tidbits. I am very happy with my Ambit3, it would be difficult to upgrade as I really don't know what else I need....


----------



## sathomasga

martowl said:


> ... I am very happy with my Ambit3, it would be difficult to upgrade as I really don't know what else I need....


Same here, but I wouldn't mind a vibration alert. (I'm assuming dual ANT+/BTLE support is out of the question.)


----------



## roots_n_rocks

..and the option to have 4 data fields...garmin does it, polar does it too....

One more thing suunto should do, is clean the whole pile of junk apps and repeated apps in movescount
and seperate the good/valid/usefull apps with a "suunto approved" tag.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

martowl said:


> The link you gave said it all, no photos provided because of an NDA. I have dealt with NDAs before....not a good idea to break them. Again, thanks for the tidbits. I am very happy with my Ambit3, it would be difficult to upgrade as I really don't know what else I need....


Honestly, I'm more than a little amazed they managed to keep things under wraps having shown something at a trade fair, i.e. without NDAs, just telling people not to say anything. Part of me is thinking I'll be getting some irate comments telling me I was not supposed to say *anything* - but hey, I only just said there's something coming, which is always the case, and it's not an Ambit4... Better to not have immediate speculation based on wrong info, in my opinion. - part of me is thinking of the number of viewers I'd have had if I had just 'borrowed' the thing and done a video...

When does the Outdoor Retailer start again? Maybe I'll really regret then


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

roots_n_rocks said:


> ..and the option to have 4 data fields...garmin does it, polar does it too....


I liked that on the fenix3... and it immediately makes me think of all the people who complain about the text being too small...


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I liked that on the fenix3... and it immediately makes me think of all the people who complain about the text being too small...


I don't wear my glasses when I am running as my eyesight is good enough for that but...I have issues seeing 3 fields already and often just use 2 fields, 4 would be a real problem for me


----------



## Joakim Agren

Vector launched in 1999, Core in 2007 so had a 8 year run. Now the Core is in it's 8TH year so by logic a new successor to the Core ought to be the new outdoors watch presented at OutDoor Friedrichshafen 2015.

Would not surprise me if this next "Core" is GPS and BT equipped but with no multi sport just navigation and outdoor focus like the old Suunto X9/10. Would not surprise me at all...:rodekaart Gerald is it close?:-d


----------



## roots_n_rocks

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I liked that on the fenix3... and it immediately makes me think of all the people who complain about the text being too small...


The top and bottom fields are really small in ambit 3. But we are talking for ambit 4 and maybe a different display (bigger or square),
or a more efficient use of display space could solve this problem. 
The trick would be to let the user choose how many fields he want to see in each screen like...garmin does....


----------



## arq4001

Sunto Traverse.
The killer of Ambit family? or next Ambit4?
(In Spanish)


----------



## TS149

https://trademarks.justia.com/866/12/traverse-86612284.html


----------



## karokajoka

arq4001 said:


> Sunto Traverse.
> The killer of Ambit family? or next Ambit4?
> (In Spanish)


Well that made me tingly in my naughty bits. And I don't even speak Spanish.


----------



## HIKESOLO

karokajoka said:


> Well that made me tingly in my naughty bits. And I don't even speak Spanish.


For the love of god, what did the man say. I want to know I want to know!


----------



## Mbaulfinger

It didn't look like it has a color screen. Did anyone notice?


----------



## TS149

It doesn't look like a color display.


----------



## raducanmihai

I'm Romanian and Spanish language is related to ours, being a Latin language. 

So, not knowing Spanish at all, this is what I understood: antenna integrated in the bezel, notifications, vibration, HR belt compatible, screens configurable the same as the Ambit family, Movescount compatible and it will cost 399 euros. 

He didn't say anything, but from the markings on the back of the watch it seems it will be Bluetooth only, no Ant/Ant+ support.


----------



## pjc3

Vibration will make many happy. Antenna in bezel may make us all unhappy!


----------



## danielp27

He also mentions, that although a hr monitor can be paired, the traverse is not conceived as a trail watch, but as a hiking watch. I wonder what that this means, it looks like some ambit features have been removed?

EDIT: understood "train" but he says actually "trail"


----------



## arnea

There was this video in DC Rainmaker blog: 




Whatever the Traverse will be, I think that Ambit 3 will be the last watch on the current platform. Most of the complaints are about software: configurability, extensibility. I think that current platform has hit the limits on the complexity side. E.g. in order to support real apps that can interact with user and perhaps with network via BT they must isolate them well in order to make the watch reliable. This demands hardware with different capabilities. That demands more power to run. It might very well be that the next flagship watch has lower battery life than the current.


----------



## rickNP

The video has been switched to Private. Bummer.

I too am skeptical of an antenna integrated into the bezel, but only because of the Fenix 3's teething issues. Hopefully the Traverse proves the concept sound.


----------



## ModestGP

karokajoka said:


> Well that made me tingly in my naughty bits. And I don't even speak Spanish.


It's a pity that I wasn't able to see the video before it was made private, I would have been able to translate it accurately, as Spanish is my second mother tongue (Catalan is the first one)...


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

One question I'm actually finding myself asking, to make this stay the thread about "Ambit 4" / Ambit successors (which is not what the Traverse will be): To what extent do you guys here think that a new model/line at the top end (spanning outdoors and training functions the way the top Ambits have been doing) should be a smart watch?

On the one hand, this is what people seem to give as an advantage of the fenix3 over the Ambit3 (smart watch, color display, customizability). On the other hand, the Apple Watch seems to "prove" that smart watches (of that kind) aren't really what we've been looking for... (I found myself torn in similar ways when testing fenix3 versus Ambit3 recently...)


MG Designs et al.: You didn't miss anything. How to say?... Accurate translations of inexact details/speculation will still not give accurate specifications - and for those, we'll have to wait for the official release.


----------



## matej123

I think the more the watch is smart the more problems and less battery you can predict. I think they must first do reliable watch for its core functions like GPS, altimeter, stability, good battery life, enough memory for data for multiple days hikes... And i would appricite better resolution and less bezel and more screen, and thiner watch.

Gerald do you maybe have a proximate timeline for Ambit 4. I presume there wont be out this year, but when next year?


----------



## mooney058

I'm new arround here and a bit confused. The shown Traverse's body look like Ambit casing, while it is meant to replace Core? Is adding a GPS means a transition from a Core desing towards Ambit design?

Greatful for any insights and clarifications.


----------



## Krispy Run

Having had both a Fenix 3 and Ambit 3, I would like it if the Ambit 4's form factor made it a better daily wear watch. If that were the case, I would then expect it to include more fitness/activity tracking features as well as email/calendar/notification support. Those would be nice additions.

However, I'm more interested in the following features that I had with the F3:
* Higher res color screen
* Vibration alerts
* Variable zoom in map/nav view and ability to set default zoom level per activity
* Improved navigation features (F3 was okay, prior Fenix series better)

I like my Ambit, but to be honest, if Garmin could dial in the F3 accuracy under cover, I'd switch back. However, it seems that's unlikely.


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> One question I'm actually finding myself asking, to make this stay the thread about "Ambit 4" / Ambit successors (which is not what the Traverse will be): To what extent do you guys here think that a new model/line at the top end (spanning outdoors and training functions the way the top Ambits have been doing) should be a smart watch?
> 
> On the one hand, this is what people seem to give as an advantage of the fenix3 over the Ambit3 (smart watch, color display, customizability). On the other hand, the Apple Watch seems to "prove" that smart watches (of that kind) aren't really what we've been looking for... (I found myself torn in similar ways when testing fenix3 versus Ambit3 recently...)
> 
> MG Designs et al.: You didn't miss anything. How to say?... Accurate translations of inexact details/speculation will still not give accurate specifications - and for those, we'll have to wait for the official release.


Gerald, I agree with you and here are my thoughts but I am probably an outlier.
1. I like the phone syncing and adjustment of sports I do not want to lose this with a newer version
2. I do not need notifications
3. I would like better maps on the phone and it would be nice to have a live tracking option
4. Improved Navigation on the watch and improvements for navigation on the website
5. As for training I do not need any more, and I really don't care about activity tracking the daily activity is a trivial component of my exercise
6. I am very happy with the new recovery features and use those. I would like to see better integration with the website.
7. I do not care about vibration alerts, a vibration motor will make the watch bigger and cost battery life. I am the outlier here but I frankly don't need it.

I don't want or need the Ambit4 to be more of a smart watch, Suunto would do well to focus on the training and sports.


----------



## bruceames

I'd like to see a satellite page during a GPS move, showing the position, the number of satellites locked in and the GPS accuracy (feet or meters). It would be nice to know how well your watch is performing and tracking and make any necessary adjustments to optimize that.


----------



## bruceames

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> On the other hand, the Apple Watch seems to "prove" that smart watches (of that kind) aren't really what we've been looking for...


The Apple watch is OK for a casual fitness watch, but it's a joke for anybody serious about it (low battery life, no GPS, no detailed post-move data, etc.) One thing I like is having the HR sensor built into the watch. It's not as accurate as a traditional chest strap, but most of the time it comes within a couple of beats. The killer though is the HR lag. It'll give readings the Suunto gave 15 seconds ago. But hopefully they'll come out with watches that'll we be as accurate and not require a belt anymore, but I don't know if that is possible.


----------



## HIKESOLO

I could care less about the "smart" features. Last thing I need while I'm working out is a text or phone call coming in. Half the time I go out to get away from that stuff. However, I do feel it is important to be in a better form for daily wearing (getting rid of the bulge). If they are able to get rid of the exterior antenna bulge, keep it just as accurate, that in my mind would be a true victory. I would also like to see vibration alerts for people like me too fat and slow to run without run/walk intervals, haha. They already have "activity tracking" but they might as well make it more useful and actually count steps like every other brand. 

So in summary, my ideal Ambit 4 would be:

1. Better form factor - Get rid of exterior antenna bulge. Make it look good enough to wear constantly.
2. Add a vibration motor.
3. Tweak activity tracking to include actual steps/distance. 

Basically I'd like a Suunto Core with GPS, step tracking, and vibration. AKA the Suunto Traverse, haha. I really wish the Traverse was adapted as the new Ambit 4.


----------



## bruceames

Small form factor would be nice, but not essential for me. I only use the A3 for moves and wear the smartwatch as a day watch.

Vibration alerts would be nice, but again, not a must have.


----------



## raducanmihai

For me, a perfect Ambit 4 would be:

1. Same (or improved, if possible) GPS performance in better form factor (eg without antenna bulge and more comfortable) 
2. 24h activity tracker: steps, sleep (analyzed like Jawbone does it) etc and all of these "syncable" to Movescount. 
3. Ghost racer: ability to run a previous recorded trail and live compare your results. 
4. Vibration 
5. 4 data screen per page (a la Garmin) 
6. Notifications would be nice (for situations like riding a bike an having my phone in my back pocket)
7. Ant/Ant+ and Bluetooth compatible
8. Wifi compatible

9. This is Movescount related: ability to edit my moves!! 
10. An Android Movescount app that works!! 


From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## PabloAlarcon

For me, what I like to see in next Ambit:

- Resume move later
- Better zoom in nav mode
- Change settings in watch

I 'm not a smartphone type of person so really dont need any notifications in the mountains or during my training...so, I think the more stuff one thing does the less it actually does on each of those things and it's more prone to errors or malfunctions...less is more for me. just a thought.


----------



## martowl

PabloAlarcon said:


> For me, what I like to see in next Ambit:
> 
> - Resume move later
> - Better zoom in nav mode
> - Change settings in watch
> 
> I 'm not a smartphone type of person so really dont need any notifications in the mountains or during my training...so, I think the more stuff one thing does the less it actually does on each of those things and it's more prone to errors or malfunctions...less is more for me. just a thought.


Pablo, this is bradolwin from Movescount, agree with you and had not thought of resume later but that is something I would like as well!


----------



## wydim

To answer Gerald's question about the degree of smartness we require in a training watch, that is the ambit series : 

While I pretty much agree that I don't want notifications while I'm training, or hiking in the mountains, I would enjoy having them while I wear my watch as an everyday watch. No need to have a speaker, microphone or touch screen features, but knowing who's calling me while I ride my bike to work and back, so I can know if it's urgent, would be a nice to have

if you absolutly don't want notifications, don't bring your phone at the gym, run, hike or simply turn off the notifications on the watch.

if that was SO important to me, I would get the A3, but for now, I'm happily married to my A2 and waiting to see what the next Ambit has to offer.


----------



## morey000

martowl said:


> ... resume later ...that is something I would like as well!


It kinda has that capability now. Just do a long press on the back/lap button and switch sports to a previously created non-GPS sport (that displays the time perhaps). enabling you to turn off the gps for a lunch break, and then turn it back on when you're ready to rock.


----------



## Floridave

rickNP,

Like you, I had the Fenix 3 and returned it due to poor GPS accuracy. I also went with the 920xt and have been very happy with it, in fact, now I like it better than I did the Fenix 3. I'm sure we've been on some of the same threads on the Garmin site posting comparison tracks of F3 against other devices. I posted my share and sure tried to make that watch work.

In the past I've had a couple Suunto's ( not GPS, a T6C with footpod and HR, and an Observer ). Found them to be bulletproof, super watches and training devices. I had to pick a replacement for the Fenix 3, and went 920xt over Ambit 2 or 3 really just to try to keep some of the features like vibration alert and I already have everything setup on the Garmin platform.

I'm just curious though, since you've used all 3 watches, and the Ambit 3 seems to work well, you prefer the 920xt.

What has you preferring the 920 to the Ambit 3?

I'm watching and waiting to see what Suunto does with Ambit 4, or how the Traverse turns out.



rickNP said:


> Hi jphelp,
> 
> I returned my second F3, after the GPS update. After I got the A3Peak I ran with it, the F3 and my FR620 a few different times. I was surprised that the FR620 and F3 were clocking in approximately the same, within reason. The GPS update did appear to improve the F3, but at the expense of a more erratic track. This is with a wide-open view of the sky, as well. The final straw was when I went for one trail run in particular and was ready to give the F3 the win over the A3P, but then out-of-nowhere the F3 added 0.15mi to my distance while I was standing still, over just a few minutes' time.
> 
> When I inspected all three watches' tracks through mygpsfiles.com/app, I found that it seems the Ambit3 does a really good job of using the watch's accelerometers to determine if I'm moving or not; if I'm not, it doesn't add each second's track to its log, so the track appears more stable and representative of reality. But both the FR620 and F3 added a GPS position every second, so were at the mercy of just how accurate each device's reception was at the time. This took my track somewhat off the rails, for both watches. The F3 was just very egregious and unacceptable, so back it went.
> 
> I've since re-purchased the FR920XT and am very happy with it. I don't know what I'll do with the Ambit3. I might keep it since I bought it on sale but that $375 would be nice to have back.


----------



## morey000

Floridave said:


> rickNP,
> 
> ...since you've used all 3 watches, and the Ambit 3 seems to work well, you prefer the 920xt.
> 
> What has you preferring the 920 to the Ambit 3?
> 
> I'm watching and waiting to see what Suunto does with Ambit 4, or how the Traverse turns out.


The 920xt will do a lot of things that the Ambits don't do, or do as well. custom workouts, virtual partner, quick release mounts, vibration alerts (I know, coming in the Traverse), 4 variables/screen, etc. Certainly- the choice as a triathlon watch. But, it doesn't look as good as an every day watch. I guess it's a more reliable tool than the Fenix3? not sure.

I know one of the limitations of the Ambits is that you need to set up the sports and screens from your PC or Phone. But with so many sports and screens- It's kinda' a blessing to have all of them off on your computer and then just apply the ones you need. I like that feature of the Ambits. Easier to manage a complex device.


----------



## koulik

morey000 said:


> The 920xt will do a lot of things that the Ambits don't do, or do as well. custom workouts, virtual partner, quick release mounts, vibration alerts (I know, coming in the Traverse), 4 variables/screen, etc. Certainly- the choice as a triathlon watch.


Traverse will be hiking/outdoor watches, not for running or triatlon..


----------



## PabloAlarcon

morey000 said:


> It kinda has that capability now. Just do a long press on the back/lap button and switch sports to a previously created non-GPS sport (that displays the time perhaps). enabling you to turn off the gps for a lunch break, and then turn it back on when you're ready to rock.


Hi morey000, yup it's true If I recall I got this tip from you here in this forum and I put it to practise on time, it works great


----------



## Krispy Run

koulik said:


> Traverse will be hiking/outdoor watches, not for running or triatlon..


I am sure that it is as many sources say the same. It is odd to me though, that it will have or be able to work with a heart rate strap. Seems like a good opportunity to make a hiking/running/trail running watch and the new ambit would then include cycling and swimming features.

I say this out of self-interest as that's all the watch I need (hiking/trail/running/navigation features with HRM).


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Krispy Run said:


> I am sure that it is as many sources say the same. It is odd to me though, that it will have or be able to work with a heart rate strap. Seems like a good opportunity to make a hiking/running/trail running watch and the new ambit would then include cycling and swimming features.
> 
> I say this out of self-interest as that's all the watch I need (hiking/trail/running/navigation features with HRM).


You're misunderstanding what the difference between an outdoors watch with HR recording (apparently, Traverse) and a training watch (such as the Ambit line) is, I think.

I mean, it's hard to say anything much before any details have been released, but it sounds like the Traverse will be a lot like... well, actually like no watch Suunto has made so far. Let's say, like a successor to the X9/X10, which were pure GPS outdoor watches, just with the ability to record HR added in. Or a Core with GPS added (and HR recording, for good measure).

What the Ambits do isn't just add cycling and swimming features, but record R-R values (HRV) and use those to analyze training effect, recovery time, and by now (Ambit3, fw 2.0), recovery state and running performance. That's quite a few more things. Of course, who needs them is another question 

'Funny' thought about that, to me, is that the Traverse will apparently be a watch that DC Rainmaker should not, given his focus on triathlons and sports, even review. That's like me reviewing the 920XT (but of course, he will).


----------



## dom.mcintyre

Indeed so; it'll be less hassle than replying "it's a hiking watch, I'm not going to review it" to everybody who'll ask him.


----------



## rjmccannuk

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> You're misunderstanding what the difference between an outdoors watch with HR recording (apparently, Traverse) and a training watch (such as the Ambit line) is, I think.
> 
> I mean, it's hard to say anything much before any details have been released, but it sounds like the Traverse will be a lot like... well, actually like no watch Suunto has made so far. Let's say, like a successor to the X9/X10, which were pure GPS outdoor watches, just with the ability to record HR added in. Or a Core with GPS added (and HR recording, for good measure).
> 
> What the Ambits do isn't just add cycling and swimming features, but record R-R values (HRV) and use those to analyze training effect, recovery time, and by now (Ambit3, fw 2.0), recovery state and running performance. That's quite a few more things. Of course, who needs them is another question
> 
> 'Funny' thought about that, to me, is that the Traverse will apparently be a watch that DC Rainmaker should not, given his focus on triathlons and sports, even review. That's like me reviewing the 920XT (but of course, he will).


So is the new Traverse not going to be focusing on triathlon features, as if not I don't need to wait and can grab an Ambit 3 sooner?! My main interest in the watch is to train for and compete in triathlons so I'm not interested in the successor if it's picking up a different focus? Have I misunderstood Gerald?

cheers |>


----------



## sathomasga

rjmccannuk said:


> So is the new Traverse not going to be focusing on triathlon features


Correct. It's a hiking/trekking watch. (Of course, we're all commenting on on a product that's unreleased, unannounced, etc.)


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

rjmccannuk said:


> So is the new Traverse not going to be focusing on triathlon features, as if not I don't need to wait and can grab an Ambit 3 sooner?! My main interest in the watch is to train for and compete in triathlons so I'm not interested in the successor if it's picking up a different focus? Have I misunderstood Gerald?
> 
> cheers |>


Only one point where I'd want to nitpick: The thing to know, even with all the speculation on what it's really going to offer, let alone what it might mean for later, is that the Traverse will not be a successor to anything much, but a new line. For outdoors/hiking use.

So, if you want a Suunto for triathlon use, an Ambit2 or Ambit3 Peak is currently the best choice, Ambit2S or Ambit3 Sports may be enough for you - or you could wait for a/the successor to the Ambit3. That's not the Traverse, though, so we're entering a world of pure speculation (on looks, release date, features...) there 

(And yes, I did even suggest the second generation for triathlon use. Just depends on whether the app connection, workout planner, and now recovery test and running performance features are worth the premium of the 3 over the 2 to you.)


----------



## Krispy Run

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> You're misunderstanding what the difference between an outdoors watch with HR recording (apparently, Traverse) and a training watch (such as the Ambit line) is, I think.
> 
> I mean, it's hard to say anything much before any details have been released, but it sounds like the Traverse will be a lot like... well, actually like no watch Suunto has made so far. Let's say, like a successor to the X9/X10, which were pure GPS outdoor watches, just with the ability to record HR added in. Or a Core with GPS added (and HR recording, for good measure).
> 
> What the Ambits do isn't just add cycling and swimming features, but record R-R values (HRV) and use those to analyze training effect, recovery time, and by now (Ambit3, fw 2.0), recovery state and running performance. That's quite a few more things. Of course, who needs them is another question
> 
> 'Funny' thought about that, to me, is that the Traverse will apparently be a watch that DC Rainmaker should not, given his focus on triathlons and sports, even review. That's like me reviewing the 920XT (but of course, he will).


I see your point in that HR tracking alone does not mean the related features found in the Ambit line would be present. It just seems that HR tracking is a fitness feature, so once it is added to an "outdoors" watch, the distinction between it an a fitness watch are less defined. If HR tracking is not for sport use, I wonder what Suunto's use case for it may be? Hopefully, it won't be too long before Suunto releases more details.

I agree what we know so far of the Traverse would make it an odd watch for DC Rainmaker to review. As is, his current Fenix 3 and Ambit3 Peak reviews fall short of what I want to know as a trail runner/hiker. Absolutely, no blame on him as that is not his focus.


----------



## bruceames

I do quite a bit of hiking and I would never go without a HR monitor. I think it's essential for pacing purposes, especially when climbing in altitude. In those conditions you can't trust going by feel because what will often happen is that you'll hit the altitude wall. I look at HR as like monitoring the RPM in your vehicle. It's really separate from using it as a fitness watch, and I think a lot of other people are getting the same idea and why HR monitors are becoming more standard in all watches. Heck, even my Garmin handheld 62sc, which is a true hiking GPS, has HR monitoring and also logs HR every 1 sec.


----------



## Krispy Run

bruceames said:


> I do quite a bit of hiking and I would never go without a HR monitor. I think it's essential for pacing purposes, especially when climbing in altitude. In those conditions you can't trust going by feel because what will often happen is that you'll hit the altitude wall. I look at HR as like monitoring the RPM in your vehicle. It's really separate from using it as a fitness watch, and I think a lot of other people are getting the same idea and why HR monitors are becoming more standard in all watches. Heck, even my Garmin handheld 62sc, which is a true hiking GPS, has HR monitoring and also logs HR every 1 sec.


Thanks bruceames! I didn't realize it would a feature hikers may look for or that the Garmin 62sc had HR monitoring.

As for the Ambit 4, or whatever it may be named, I was thinking Suunto may want to integrate some of the Fenix 3's smart watch features to keep up with the competition. However, judging from Garmin's fenix 3 forum, the GPS accuracy issues persist even after Garmin's "fix" and Garmin may no longer consider it an issue needing attention. An accurate Ambit trumps an inaccurate Fenix, regardless of the extra features. Hopefully, Suunto's accuracy will not suffer with any form factor changes.


----------



## bruceames

Anyway it really doesn't cost much to add simple HR capability to a watch or GPS device. Some people will want it in the Traverse, most probably not. But that "some" is enough for Suunto to include it as a optional feature. 

For the Ambit it's the opposite. Some don't need it because they'll want it mostly for hiking or other stuff. That's why the Ambit is sold both with and without the HR belt. I don't know if the Traverse will be sold both with and without HR strap, but it's getting to be the norm to sell HR-capable devices without the strap.

As mentioned above, even though the Traverse will have HR, it won't have R-R/HRV, which is truly a fitness feature that hikers wouldn't need.


----------



## karokajoka

Krispy Run said:


> Thanks bruceames! I didn't realize it would a feature hikers may look for or that the Garmin 62sc had HR monitoring.
> 
> As for the Ambit 4, or whatever it may be named, I was thinking Suunto may want to integrate some of the Fenix 3's smart watch features to keep up with the competition. However, judging from Garmin's fenix 3 forum, the GPS accuracy issues persist even after Garmin's "fix" and Garmin may no longer consider it an issue needing attention. An accurate Ambit trumps an inaccurate Fenix, regardless of the extra features. Hopefully, Suunto's accuracy will not suffer with any form factor changes.


Aaaaaand that's why I'll never buy the Fenix 3.

It's beautiful. It's certainly capable of being a watch you wear every day. It has synchronization to smart phones, vibration alerts, completely customizable. The look of the watch is absolutely world-class.

But its accuracy sucks. And if you're not going to get an accurate GPS watch, you might as well download a free app on your phone and go to Walmart. Knowing that Garmin has basically given up, man. If I had purchased that watch, I'd be pissed.


----------



## rickNP

Hi Floridave, sorry for the late reply as I've been on vacation.

My reasons for going back to the 920 versus the A2 or A3 are similar to yours, in essence. Except for one instance, I don't find the A3 any more accurate than the 920, yet the 920 has vibration alerts and is on the Garmin platform. I find the UI on the 920 is better than the Ambit, as well, but that may boil down to personal preference. Movescount is lacking in usability for one who wants a single hub for all their activities, and the interval workout abilities + lap/autolap on Garmin is almost exactly what I like for my marathon training, versus the Suunto method for doing the same, which I think is also very lacking.

However, I really like how Suunto manages to discard GPS data it doesn't need (if I'm standing still, for instance, so the watch detects my arm *not* swinging). This is much better than every Garmin I've tested. I also like how Suunto will activate/deactivate sensors based on the activity I'm starting, per the settings I've enabled/disabled. I wish Garmin would do that as well. But, neither of those is enough to sway me away from Garmin just yet.


----------



## RIVI1969

For me the perfect Ambit would add depth meter like in the Core but up to 50m or so...


----------



## Ivan_Ivanusic

RIVI1969 said:


> For me the perfect Ambit would add depth meter like in the Core but up to 50m or so...


That wont happen becouse they have another watches for diving, sk they wont make a watch which has all features from suunto


----------



## RIVI1969

Ivan_Ivanusic said:


> That wont happen becouse they have another watches for diving, sk they wont make a watch which has all features from suunto


Exactly. Then I would be more than happy with a ruggedized Core, like a "Core Spartan" with 25m depth sensor. Probably I will never go deeper anyway so even a Zoop computer is too much for my needs )


----------



## arnea

It would be nice to have location based laps. I.e. you press lap button at some place and it starts lap. When you pass same place again new lap is started.


----------



## BillyX

I really don't know what Suunto could add to Ambit 4 for me to think about buying it instead of my Ambit 3. 
But there are some things Suunto could improve at the software side:
- Better Android App
- Better possibilities to analyze/categorize/compare moves on Movescount
- Recording time, gps, hr always when in sports mode and disingush between "doing sport" and "recover"
- More intelligent auto light

Of course there is one really cool feature they could include: Connction from Ambit to The Dash with spoken lap times and recording of the oxygen values in Ambit


----------



## starks

I hope the navigation features are improved in Ambit 4. What I'd like to see mostly is giving the user the option to manually zoom in and zoom out on the map. I mean, my old Garmin 305 which was first manufactured in 2008 can do it so I guess it's not much to ask.


----------



## morey000

starks said:


> I hope the navigation features are improved in Ambit 4. What I'd like to see mostly is giving the user the option to manually zoom in and zoom out on the map. I mean, my old Garmin 305 which was first manufactured in 2008 can do it so I guess it's not much to ask.


The one, simple navigation change I'd like to see- is when you arrive at a waypoint, that the display can be set to read the name of the waypoint you are at, rather than saying "Continue to" and the name of the NEXT waypoint, which I don't find useful. When I name a waypoint, I put in directions "Turn Left Rt45". Yes- I know that it gives you the name of the waypoint as you approach it, but I often don't look at my watch until I'm standing at the intersection, wondering which way to go.


----------



## pjc3

morey000 said:


> The one, simple navigation change I'd like to see- is when you arrive at a waypoint, that the display can be set to read the name of the waypoint you are at, rather than saying "Continue to" and the name of the NEXT waypoint, which I don't find useful. When I name a waypoint, I put in directions "Turn Left Rt45". Yes- I know that it gives you the name of the waypoint as you approach it, but I often don't look at my watch until I'm standing at the intersection, wondering which way to go.


Agreed. Perhaps another proximity alert when you leave the current waypoint........ (100m before) Approaching Turn Left Rt45.......(at waypint) Arrived Turn Left Rt45......(100m beyond) Continue to Turn Right at crossroads


----------



## Teriemer

raducanmihai said:


> For me, a perfect Ambit 4 would be:
> 
> 1. Same (or improved, if possible) GPS performance in better form factor (eg without antenna bulge and more comfortable)
> 2. 24h activity tracker: steps, sleep (analyzed like Jawbone does it) etc and all of these "syncable" to Movescount.
> 3. Ghost racer: ability to run a previous recorded trail and live compare your results.
> 4. Vibration
> 5. 4 data screen per page (a la Garmin)
> 6. Notifications would be nice (for situations like riding a bike an having my phone in my back pocket)
> 7. Ant/Ant+ and Bluetooth compatible
> 8. Wifi compatible
> 
> 9. This is Movescount related: ability to edit my moves!!
> 10. An Android Movescount app that works!!
> 
> From Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


Well said in the above. Also I would really like to see an *Interval programmer* on the website, so I can plan these from my PC and not a damn Ipad / phone, where the text is so small...


----------



## morey000

Here it is! the Ambit 4.

https://www.behance.net/gallery/28679969/Smartwatch-redesign-concept-UI

naw- just kidding. Just a designer's concept that has nothing to so with Suunto. He's clearly a capable designer tho'.
If only LCDs could look that black.


----------



## Teriemer

It certainly looks very cool! I wonder if Suunto sees this? What would they think? Never the less, it's gonna be interesting to see the A4 once it's ready


----------



## WEM

Hi,

found something interesting in the supported Device XML file:

<device name="*Suunto Ambit3 Vertica*l" type="Emu" model="*Kaka*">
<port type="HID">
<driver>BluebirdDriver</driver>
<match>
<vid>0x1493</vid>
<pid>0x002c</pid>
</match>
</port>
<host type="NspHost">
<match>
<device>Kaka</device>
</match>
</host>
<protocols>
<protocol type="UsbFrame"/>
<protocol type="NSP"/>
</protocols>
<options>
<trainingprogram/>
<firmware>
<bootupdate>true</bootupdate>
</firmware>
<custommodeconfig>
<intervaltimer>true</intervaltimer>
<ruleconfig>true</ruleconfig>
<custommodeid>true</custommodeid>
<usehrlimits>true</usehrlimits>
<autoscrolling>true</autoscrolling>
<rulestoresize>200000</rulestoresize>
<rulestorelocation>600000</rulestorelocation>
....
</episodic>
</training>
</log>
* <glonass>
<download/>
</glonass>*
</options>
</device>

The definition is similar to the Ambit3 Peak. Name, Code and the entry with glonass is new...

Werner


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

The things you guys find. Still won't be the successor to the Ambit line / Ambit4.


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> The things you guys find. Still won't be the successor to the Ambit line / Ambit4.


We will know when someone finds something as your NDA will prevent you from commenting


----------



## HIKESOLO

I wonder if Suunto will announce a new product at CES in a couple weeks. Should hear about lots of great stuff from many companies.


----------



## WEM

Hey,

I hope also that A4 is comming soon. I wait for the combination of Traverse and Ambit3 features a hopefully a little bit more


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

EatPlayLift said:


> I wonder if Suunto will announce a new product at CES in a couple weeks. Should hear about lots of great stuff from many companies.


Has Suunto ever announced anything at the CES? My bet is on the ISPO (end of January), but even so, I don't know if there'll be any news on anything truly new yet...


----------



## JonnoBird

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Has Suunto ever announced anything at the CES? My bet is on the ISPO (end of January), but even so, I don't know if there'll be any news on anything truly new yet...


Here's some analysis: Suunto Ambit 4 - Speculation and Rumors 2016 | Pushing Body and Mind Harder, Faster, Longer - Crank101


----------



## user_none

JonnoBird said:


> Here's some analysis: Suunto Ambit 4 - Speculation and Rumors 2016 | Pushing Body and Mind Harder, Faster, Longer - Crank101


That is some of the wackiest stuff I've read and more in dream land than anything else.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

This "analysis" is *that* close to being trolling.

Quote: "Someone’s English needs proofed before the emails go out."

Yep. I can see that. (And there, I would actually agree that Suunto could improve its communications. And the Ambit straps - which they actually have been.)


----------



## user_none

snip


Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> And the Ambit straps - which they actually have been.)


Just don't screw with the Peak Sapphire strap. That thing is the holy grail of watch band awesomeness.


----------



## JonnoBird

I should have added a smilie. LOL... Happy Holiday!


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Seems like it's time to remind everyone of that design study from before the Ambits... which might be doable in about 10 years time (or with a battery runtime of about 10 minutes for a watch that costs a few grand): https://www.behance.net/gallery/5755179/SUUNTO-VECTOR-TOUCH-HAGLOEFS-EDITION


----------



## JonnoBird

I have used Garmin 305's for it seems like a decade. I think I've gone through at least a half dozen of them, and I glued the current one back together with "Harbor Freight" generic Superglue after the plastic welded case opened up, revealing the huge amount of wasted internal 'white space' inside. Garmin's on-line sync has been very disappointing, failing to work well with Macs. I'm drawn to Suunto and as a triathlete and paraglider pilot, mountain biker, and motorcyclist, the Ambit line looks like it would be great. Thus I await the Ambit 4 (mostly for hopefully vibration notifications from iPhone) as a very desired feature. Thank you Gerald for your great Youtube Suunto reviews.


----------



## paul1928

I'll put my money on the Suunto Vertical being announced towards the end of this month and the Ambit 4 not until Northern spring.


----------



## anto1980

Hi!
Where do you seen about Ambit Vertical?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

anto1980 said:


> Hi!
> Where do you seen about Ambit Vertical?


Probably here: Ambit 4 - Page 17 (i.e., a few posts above)


----------



## morey000

Teriemer said:


> It certainly looks very cool! I wonder if Suunto sees this? What would they think? Never the less, it's gonna be interesting to see the A4 once it's ready


Maybe in the next couple days, when the Outdoor Retailer show opens. Suunto wasn't at CES, but they will be at OR. Don't know if they'll have an announcement or not, but we'll find out soon. Otherwise I may have to buy a Fenix3HR.


----------



## morey000

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> The things you guys find. Still won't be the successor to the Ambit line / Ambit4.


Now that the wraps are off of the Vertical. It appears to have ambit 3S functionality in the Traverse packaging. Hopefully, Suunto was using this extra time to deliver a solid, stable product. (yeah, talking to you Garmin)

Do you have a preview/review of the product? Or didn't they provide anything to you as a reviewer?
Do you have a product availability date?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

morey000 said:


> Now that the wraps are off of the Vertical. It appears to have ambit 3S functionality in the Traverse packaging. Hopefully, Suunto was using this extra time to deliver a solid, stable product. (yeah, talking to you Garmin)
> 
> Do you have a preview/review of the product? Or didn't they provide anything to you as a reviewer?
> Do you have a product availability date?


Knew it was coming, but don't/didn't have much else. Suunto's started playing its hands real close recently - while working on the next big thing?


----------



## Gordon Ho

Hi all , this watch has been announced by Suunto right now. check the official website


----------



## zvojan

I don't see enything. Link pleae..


----------



## qualizon

Suunto Ambit3 Vertical Lime - Multisport GPS watch


----------



## wydim

morey000 said:


> Now that the wraps are off of the Vertical. It appears to have ambit 3S functionality in the Traverse packaging. Hopefully, Suunto was using this extra time to deliver a solid, stable product. (yeah, talking to you Garmin)
> 
> Do you have a preview/review of the product? Or didn't they provide anything to you as a reviewer?
> Do you have a product availability date?


not 3S functionality. The 3S doesn't have baro. The new 3Vertical has it.

It's more a Peak functionality (minus battery life) in a Traverse packaging (but thinner : 15mm vs 16.5mm)

I think the only reason they did not call it Ambit4 is because it has the same display module.


----------



## martowl

Gordon Ho said:


> Hi all , this watch has been announced by Suunto right now. check the official website


The OP is talking about the Ambit4, and Gerald has stated the Vertical is not the Ambit3 replacement. I certainly concur as a step back in battery capacity is not consistent with the Ambit top tier line.


----------



## antjoh

I sincerely hope that Suunto is not going down a route where they are releasing a bunch of almost identical units with software being the only difference.
"If you want feature X and Y, you can buy watch A. If you want feature Y and Z you'll have to buy watch B, but you can't have X, Y and Z in one unit".

Hopefully there will be a new Peak that will rule them all.


----------



## wydim

antjoh said:


> I sincerely hope that Suunto is not going down a route where they are releasing a bunch of almost identical units with software being the only difference.
> "If you want feature X and Y, you can buy watch A. If you want feature Y and Z you'll have to buy watch B, but you can't have X, Y and Z in one unit".
> 
> Hopefully there will be a new Peak that will rule them all.


exactly my thoughts. I'm waiting for Ambit4 : best battery life, every features of the ambit3 and traverse, colors touch screen and espresso maker


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

wydim said:


> exactly my thoughts. I'm waiting for Ambit4 : best battery life, every features of the ambit3 and traverse, colors touch screen and espresso maker


Of course at below 500 bucks and not too bulky, with GPS accuracy down to 10 cm. (I've been working on videos trying to compare Traverse with GPS active vs. GPS+GLONASS active. Problem: You mainly see what wrist I wore the watch on each of the times I ran that course.)


----------



## Quotron

I don't get the fascination with color screens: they're pretty useless in direct sunlight, suck battery, and don't contribute anything towards performance - unless you count having a Seamaster 300 face as performance.... Perhaps my utility preferences are different than those of other people.



martowl said:


> The OP is talking about the Ambit4, and Gerald has stated the Vertical is not the Ambit3 replacement. I certainly concur as a step back in battery capacity is not consistent with the Ambit top tier line.


I don't think this is supposed to be the top tier Ambit3; the Vertical is to trail running like the Sport is to triathlons. The Peak is still the flagship in the Ambit3 lineup. It would be nice if the Ambit4 lineup is more condensed, but just recently, everyone was complaining that Suunto hadn't released anything new _in forever_ and now they're upset that there's _too much_ new stuff, but not _the right_ new stuff.


----------



## HIKESOLO

Well it's sort of true. These really aren't new. I mean technically they are but people are looking for the next big thing from Suunto, not minor tweaks. What they've done with the form factor is awesome, but we need some new goodies in the watch.


----------



## Mbaulfinger

I'll probably get shot for this but I'd personally love to see them put MP3 player in there like the old Motorola sports watch.
and don't try to make it smaller at the expense of battery size.


----------



## user_none

Mbaulfinger said:


> I'll probably get shot for this but I'd personally love to see them put MP3 player in there like the old Motorola sports watch.
> and don't try to make it smaller at the expense of battery size.


No thanks. Keep the Ambit simple and strip away all that's not necessary.

I have an iPod Nano that's rated for 40 hours of music playback, and it can do Bluetooth for wireless headphones (I prefer corded though) and with 16 GB built in. It's so light that I don't feel it in the zippered rear pocket.


----------



## morey000

EatPlayLift said:


> ... but we need some new goodies in the watch.


in Suunto's defense, we did ask for the vibration alerts and to get rid of the antenna bump. got both of those! plus, it appears, the ability to change GPS update rate on the fly.


----------



## bruceames

morey000 said:


> in Suunto's defense, we did ask for the vibration alerts and to get rid of the antenna bump. got both of those! plus, it appears, the ability to change GPS update rate on the fly.


I wish they hadn't got rid of the bump. It's a better antenna. If I were using it as a day watch then perhaps yes I wouldn't mind so much. However the last thing on my mind during training or a race is form factor (except for ease of reading the display of course). Any other time the watch is off my wrist. I have little hope that the A4 will retain the bump at this point.


----------



## user_none

bruceames said:


> I wish they hadn't got rid of the bump. It's a better antenna. If I were using it as a day watch then perhaps yes I wouldn't mind so much. However the last thing on my mind during training or a race is form factor (except for ease of reading the display of course). Any other time the watch is off my wrist. I have little hope that the A4 will retain the bump at this point.


I, too, hope the Ambit4 doesn't get rid of the antenna kickstand. Although I can understand why some people don't like it since the kickstand could cause a fitment issue. For me, the Ambit3 fits my wrist perfectly, like Suunto themselves used my wrist as the guide for sizing. I'm lucky that way...

For grins, I took my Garmin Oregon 600 along on a run. Ambit3 Peak was set for 1s GPS updates, and the Oregon was set for "More Frequent". Trail run under pretty heavy tree cover. The Ambit3 tracked so well (nothing new, really) that I thought, yet again, "I love this damn thing.", whereas the Oregon was all over the place. I'll have to do the same test with my Garmin Monterra.


----------



## raducanmihai

morey000 said:


> in Suunto's defense, we did ask for the vibration alerts and to get rid of the antenna bump. got both of those! plus, it appears, the ability to change GPS update rate on the fly.


I think we asked them to "get rid of the antenna bump while *keeping the same GPS accuracy*". At least, I did.


----------



## Teriemer

user_none said:


> I, too, hope the Ambit4 doesn't get rid of the antenna kickstand. ....
> 
> ... The Ambit3 tracked so well (nothing new, really) ....


So does the Traverse with latest firmware. I follow Gerald on Movescount (thank you Gerald) and I looked closely on his last few runs. All of them are very very good. Even a few that where ran in mountains/forrest are very good too. So I most certainly expect the same from Vertical, since it's likely the same hardware.


----------



## Matteeboy

Only thing I would like is an optical HRM - try as I might I just CANNOT get comfortable with a chest strap. And believe me, I've tried all sorts including a home made "bra strap" arrangement (I'm probably more triangle shaped than most).

Other than that, I'm extremely happy with my recently purchased Ambit3 Peak.


----------



## user_none

Matteeboy said:


> Only thing I would like is an optical HRM - try as I might I just CANNOT get comfortable with a chest strap. And believe me, I've tried all sorts including a home made "bra strap" arrangement (I'm probably more triangle shaped than most).
> 
> Other than that, I'm extremely happy with my recently purchased Ambit3 Peak.


Try the Scosche Ryhthm+. That thing was a game changer for me. I like straps and really like the Suunto SmartBelt, but also have a problem with straps tending to slip a bit and that bugs the crap out of me. The Scosche never moves.


----------



## Teriemer

user_none said:


> Try the Scosche Ryhthm+. That thing was a game changer for me. I like straps and really like the Suunto SmartBelt, but also have a problem with straps tending to slip a bit and that bugs the crap out of me. The Scosche never moves.


But AFAIK the Scosche belt doesn't measure HRV data. Do you get time to recover figures after a run + peak training effect?


----------



## Matteeboy

user_none said:


> Try the Scosche Ryhthm+. That thing was a game changer for me. I like straps and really like the Suunto SmartBelt, but also have a problem with straps tending to slip a bit and that bugs the crap out of me. The Scosche never moves.


I did have a good look at these but I'm just not quite convinced they work well enough. I was going to wait a little while for the market to mature a little. The lack of HRV data is a bit of a shame. It does look very promising though.


----------



## Goose2012

Hi guys and girls! I'm still plugging along with my Ambit2 (which I love) and thought that holding out for the Ambit 4 while skipping the 3 would be beneficial to the bank balance and wouldn't entail such a wait.
I don't know how much longer I can hold out however, and may go ahead and buy the 3 peak anyway.
I'm hoping i'll find some people here who can dissuade me from doing this because 
*The ambit 2 is just as good
*The ambit 3 is a terrible piece of equipment
*The Ambit 4 is about to be launched
Any advice appreciated!


----------



## Matteeboy

Goose2012 said:


> Hi guys and girls! I'm still plugging along with my Ambit2 (which I love) and thought that holding out for the Ambit 4 while skipping the 3 would be beneficial to the bank balance and wouldn't entail such a wait.
> I don't know how much longer I can hold out however, and may go ahead and buy the 3 peak anyway.
> I'm hoping i'll find some people here who can dissuade me from doing this because
> *The ambit 2 is just as good
> *The ambit 3 is a terrible piece of equipment
> *The Ambit 4 is about to be launched
> Any advice appreciated!


I recently changed from Ambit2 to 3 but mostly through losing my 2! And of course two weeks after buying an Ambit3 Peak, I found my 2! However I do think the 3 is a good deal better. Mine is a Nepal Editon - it is much lighter and more comfortable than the 2 (mine was the Silver HR). The Bluetooth functions are brilliant, it's all black so much more wearable as a daily and the battery lasts almost forever.

I'm delighted with it AND it was pretty cheap.


----------



## martowl

Goose2012 said:


> Hi guys and girls! I'm still plugging along with my Ambit2 (which I love) and thought that holding out for the Ambit 4 while skipping the 3 would be beneficial to the bank balance and wouldn't entail such a wait.
> I don't know how much longer I can hold out however, and may go ahead and buy the 3 peak anyway.
> I'm hoping i'll find some people here who can dissuade me from doing this because
> *The ambit 2 is just as good
> *The ambit 3 is a terrible piece of equipment
> *The Ambit 4 is about to be launched
> Any advice appreciated!


Once the Ambit4 is launched then the Ambit5 will be on the horizon! It will never end. Currently the Peak3 is on sale in a number of places and yes, some new Ambits are likely but I read Gerald's posts carefully and I do know a Salomon rep that has beta tested Ambits. Here is what I am thinking, and I am sure Gerald will chime in and tell me I am full of Bull#$it, which I am because I have no data to back this up. The Traverse and Vertical are basically the new Sport split into different user groups, the Traverse for hikers with weather features that are completely lacking in the Vertical, which is targeted at mountain runners, mountain bikers and triathletes. I think the Peak will split too and the Ambit4 will not be one watch, we will be forced to decide between different models....that would be a prediction from the recent releases.

Anyway the Peak3 is great...just lacking the espresso maker (an old joke around here).


----------



## martowl

Matteeboy said:


> Only thing I would like is an optical HRM - try as I might I just CANNOT get comfortable with a chest strap. And believe me, I've tried all sorts including a home made "bra strap" arrangement (I'm probably more triangle shaped than most).
> 
> Other than that, I'm extremely happy with my recently purchased Ambit3 Peak.


As stated before, an optical HRM will not give you RR data and then you lose all of the recovery functions and a lot of the intensity information. DCRainmaker did mention that the group making the Scosche monitors was looking into RR or HRV recording but it sounded there were significant hurdles remaining. I use the intensity and recovery functions so I chose to stick with the belt. Optical recording will need to improve significantly before Suunto incorporates it, I think.


----------



## Goose2012

martowl said:


> Goose2012 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys and girls! I'm still plugging along with my Ambit2 (which I love) and thought that holding out for the Ambit 4 while skipping the 3 would be beneficial to the bank balance and wouldn't entail such a wait.
> I don't know how much longer I can hold out however, and may go ahead and buy the 3 peak anyway.
> I'm hoping i'll find some people here who can dissuade me from doing this because
> *The ambit 2 is just as good
> *The ambit 3 is a terrible piece of equipment
> *The Ambit 4 is about to be launched
> Any advice appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> Once the Ambit4 is launched then the Ambit5 will be on the horizon! It will never end. Currently the Peak3 is on sale in a number of places and yes, some new Ambits are likely but I read Gerald's posts carefully and I do know a Salomon rep that has beta tested Ambits. Here is what I am thinking, and I am sure Gerald will chime in and tell me I am full of Bull#$it, which I am because I have no data to back this up. The Traverse and Vertical are basically the new Sport split into different user groups, the Traverse for hikers with weather features that are completely lacking in the Vertical, which is targeted at mountain runners, mountain bikers and triathletes. I think the Peak will split too and the Ambit4 will not be one watch, we will be forced to decide between different models....that would be a prediction from the recent releases.
> 
> Anyway the Peak3 is great...just lacking the espresso maker (an old joke around here).
Click to expand...




Matteeboy said:


> Goose2012 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys and girls! I'm still plugging along with my Ambit2 (which I love) and thought that holding out for the Ambit 4 while skipping the 3 would be beneficial to the bank balance and wouldn't entail such a wait.
> I don't know how much longer I can hold out however, and may go ahead and buy the 3 peak anyway.
> I'm hoping i'll find some people here who can dissuade me from doing this because
> *The ambit 2 is just as good
> *The ambit 3 is a terrible piece of equipment
> *The Ambit 4 is about to be launched
> Any advice appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> I recently changed from Ambit2 to 3 but mostly through losing my 2! And of course two weeks after buying an Ambit3 Peak, I found my 2! However I do think the 3 is a good deal better. Mine is a Nepal Editon - it is much lighter and more comfortable than the 2 (mine was the Silver HR). The Bluetooth functions are brilliant, it's all black so much more wearable as a daily and the battery lasts almost forever.
> 
> I'm delighted with it AND it was pretty cheap.
Click to expand...

Thank you both! Unfortunately it's the answer I was expecting and I have nothing holding me back now 
Coffee machine or not, I'm coming for you Ambit 3. 
Do you think it is worthwhile getting a Sapphire just on the basis of a better re-sell price?

Cheers!


----------



## bruceames

martowl said:


> Once the Ambit4 is launched then the Ambit5 will be on the horizon! It will never end. Currently the Peak3 is on sale in a number of places and yes, some new Ambits are likely but I read Gerald's posts carefully and I do know a Salomon rep that has beta tested Ambits. Here is what I am thinking, and I am sure Gerald will chime in and tell me I am full of Bull#$it, which I am because I have no data to back this up. The Traverse and Vertical are basically the new Sport split into different user groups, the Traverse for hikers with weather features that are completely lacking in the Vertical, which is targeted at mountain runners, mountain bikers and triathletes. I think the Peak will split too and the Ambit4 will not be one watch, we will be forced to decide between different models....that would be a prediction from the recent releases.
> 
> Anyway the Peak3 is great...just lacking the espresso maker (an old joke around here).


Unfortunately I think you are right. I doubt that Suunto would introduce two new watches (Traverse and Vertical) only to nuke them with a hugely upgraded Ambit 4 a few months later. I'm glad I got the Ambit 3 when I did (last April) and now it looks like when the updated Peak equivalent comes out (sometime this spring I would guess), that it won't be this huge upgrade but rather a modest one, along the lines of Sport-->Vertical. The vibration alerts are the only thing I really miss (although a recovery HR differential feature would be nice too). I always have to look at the watch a few seconds before the beep so I don't miss my split time.


----------



## bruceames

Goose2012 said:


> Thank you both! Unfortunately it's the answer I was expecting and I have nothing holding me back now
> Coffee machine or not, I'm coming for you Ambit 3.
> Do you think it is worthwhile getting a Sapphire just on the basis of a better re-sell price?
> 
> Cheers!


I have the A3 Sapphire and it looks soooo much better than my Black A2. Even more so since it doesn't have that scratch on the face like the A2 does.


----------



## martowl

Goose2012 said:


> Thank you both! Unfortunately it's the answer I was expecting and I have nothing holding me back now
> Coffee machine or not, I'm coming for you Ambit 3.
> Do you think it is worthwhile getting a Sapphire just on the basis of a better re-sell price?
> 
> Cheers!


The Sapphire glass is much more resistant to scratching. At the sale prices you can find these it is worth buying the Sapphire. Heck, I like the blue one enough I sold my black Peak3 and bought the blue sapphire version for less than I paid for the original Peak!


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

martowl said:


> Once the Ambit4 is launched then the Ambit5 will be on the horizon! It will never end. Currently the Peak3 is on sale in a number of places and yes, some new Ambits are likely but I read Gerald's posts carefully and I do know a Salomon rep that has beta tested Ambits. Here is what I am thinking, and I am sure Gerald will chime in and tell me I am full of Bull#$it, which I am because I have no data to back this up. The Traverse and Vertical are basically the new Sport split into different user groups, the Traverse for hikers with weather features that are completely lacking in the Vertical, which is targeted at mountain runners, mountain bikers and triathletes. I think the Peak will split too and the Ambit4 will not be one watch, we will be forced to decide between different models....that would be a prediction from the recent releases.
> 
> Anyway the Peak3 is great...just lacking the espresso maker (an old joke around here).


Can't see any more/worse BS than I could provide 

The only thought I'm having - aside from "Let's see if I can get anything more out of the people I'll meet at the ISPO!" (which isn't likely to be anything much) - is that one may want to keep in mind that there are also splits between the performance and the, uhm, let's just call it lifestyle sides of the business. (Remember that the Kailash is supposed to be one model in the "World Collection", with more to come...(?))

On that note, I'm somewhat happy with the Vertical being targeted at an even more specific and peculiar sports user group than previous models (even if, yes, I'd not have minded just getting the altitude features on the Ambit3 Peak - but there's also a split between wanting to satisfy customers and wanting to make money... and Suunto seems to be making lots of money, small as it is compared to an Arcteryx or Salomon, for Amer Sports). -> That's also behind my vehement "defense" of Suunto not including a step counter on the Ambit line, and especially the Vertical.

What I most wonder right now, though, is what we'd be thinking if Suunto next came out with something very different from what we've seen (or people have said they'd want) so far*. But as this is based on an idea/rumor from a while back, I'll leave you with nothing more but this question, sorry. Want to get in more training, have a (supposed-to-be) 120 km event coming up, then the ISPO, and then hopefully a Vertical to check out. And maybe some words from a Suunto rep, from the ISPO...

*And no, I don't mean an espresso maker. Although, given "Patagonia Provisions", that would make for some great marketing... but only for WUSers (WUSsies? :-D )


----------



## antjoh

Goose2012 said:


> Thank you both! Unfortunately it's the answer I was expecting and I have nothing holding me back now
> Coffee machine or not, I'm coming for you Ambit 3.
> Do you think it is worthwhile getting a Sapphire just on the basis of a better re-sell price?
> 
> Cheers!


Of course, you could buy the strap that comes with the Sapphire separately, but for me that is also a great selling point in favor of the Sapphire. The band is awesome and once you tried it you don't want to go back.


----------



## user_none

martowl said:


> As stated before, an optical HRM will not give you RR data and then you lose all of the recovery functions and a lot of the intensity information. DCRainmaker did mention that the group making the Scosche monitors was looking into RR or HRV recording but it sounded there were significant hurdles remaining. I use the intensity and recovery functions so I chose to stick with the belt. Optical recording will need to improve significantly before Suunto incorporates it, I think.


Somewhere, deep in the dark recesses of the DCR Rhythm+ review is a note about RR being enabled on later firmware revisions. Memory is a bit fuzzy on it right now, but that may have been a pseudo RR, or something of the sorts.

I do get PTE and recovery times after a run and that's like a horoscope for me.


----------



## Matteeboy

martowl said:


> As stated before, an optical HRM will not give you RR data and then you lose all of the recovery functions and a lot of the intensity information. DCRainmaker did mention that the group making the Scosche monitors was looking into RR or HRV recording but it sounded there were significant hurdles remaining. I use the intensity and recovery functions so I chose to stick with the belt. Optical recording will need to improve significantly before Suunto incorporates it, I think.


I've tried and tried with the HR strap; no doubt it's better than the one on my Ambit 2 but I just cannot use it. It's okay with cycling but with running, I know it's actually slowing me down. Not sure if it's because of an old sternum injury (lots of martial arts plus ran into a gate bolt once - took months to heal up!), my shape (28" waist, 42" chest so rather triangular, also due to years of weights, the sensor sits a fair way from my skin of my "man cleavage!") or something else but I've decided I just won't bother with it; it makes me feel like I've been lightly winded, if I do it too tight it hinders free breathing, too loose and it falls down - a real shame as the data is very handy.

The Rhythm+ looks almost there but not quite. I'm sure something will be out soon that is more comfortable but also works!


----------



## Goose2012

Thank you for all the comments and advice all. I've just placed my order for the 3 Peak Sapphire... This should mean that the Ambit4 will be announced shortly
Really looking forward to receiving it!
Cheers!


----------



## user_none

Goose2012 said:


> Thank you for all the comments and advice all. I've just placed my order for the 3 Peak Sapphire... This should mean that the Ambit4 will be announced shortly
> Really looking forward to receiving it!
> Cheers!


Even if the Ambit4 comes out soon, you've hopefully paid way less for the Peak, which I certainly can't say.

Congrats! It's a great unit.


----------



## Striff

Hi all,
I had an Ambit 2 and switched over to a Fenix 3 due to at the time needed Vibration and a higher res screen.

1) Not able to do a Full screen map, unbelievable that this is not an option on Garmin's website!
2) Courses / route,no ability to add way points / POI's. Instead we have to go to 3rd part sites / apps (Ride with GPS, Route Planner) etc to add in waypoints, then download the file and convert it to a fit file so the Fenix 3 will work with it
3) The scale of the altitude in the graphs. The graph has a way to make everything look flat, the scale should be dynamic. If I go for a run and it's between 0 and 100 metres above see level, why the heck would I want to see the graph go to 200 metres, 
4) Dynamic graphs. Suunto Moves Count site does this very well. I click on altitude, and it will colour co-ordinate the corse path to that of different colours according to the altitude. Click on Heart Rate, it will then change the colours to that of the different heart rate levels, very handy to see what your heart rate / altitude (and any other metric) is at a certain point.
5) Any apps I put onto my Fenix 3, are not graphed out, or uploaded. Completely useless as when your activity is done, any added in metrics are not saved on the watch or in the web site.

This is why I love Suunto's moves count, these features mentioned above it does very well.

But there are a few things I wondering if they have sorted before I swithc back, and I can wait for the Ambit 4 peak (if it comes)

These question are all in reference to the Ambit 3 Peak (with latest firmware)
1) navigation, does it do bread crumb tracking and alert you if off course (one of the few things the Fenix does well)
2) Can you edit way points / Poi's directly on the watch (this is very important to me)
3) Is there a top counter ? With built in goals and other data?
4) auto pause, and able to configure, ie pause if not moving for 5 seconds, or pause if below 2km/h etc

Below are why I'd be holding off for a Ambit 4
5) No hump, or ability to change watch straps. I aways got a skin rash from the Ambit watch bands, and not able to change to others was very annoying.
6) Can any settings be changed on the watch like the Fenix, i.e. not reliant on website or phone app to change / configure?
7) Higher res / colour screen (Really does make a difference for me)
8) Virtual runner, compete against a set speed, or a variable speed (against a course) and compete against a previous run / ride


----------



## PabloAlarcon

hum, so from all that i've read these days since Traverse lunch till A3V lunch, it seems that A4 it's still far ahead at leat until end of the year, as someone said before it wouldnt make sense that Suunto came up just now with an A4 that would kill traverse and A3V features wise, for instance I think an A4 right now wouldnt have the Ascent profile in real time as the A3V does...but well who knows..plus I think the new bezel without the antena will definitly make it to the Ambit series and so far it's not been so good of a change ...so I think I wil just update my A2 to A3 and see where the things go. just my thougts


----------



## hasto092

Not much to add, but I have just purchased the A3 Sapphire. Now I have Suunto Ambit 1, 2 Peak, 3 Sport and 3 Sapphire Peak. I must be mental  I will rotate between Garmin Fenix 3 and the A3SP. Was playing with the idea of getting the F3HR but with all the unreliability of the F3 of late I am going to go back to Suunto for a bit. My new watch arrives next Wednesday and I can't wait. 

Gav


----------



## esmarquette

Stopped in to my friendly Suunto dealer here in Finland to eye an A3 sapphire.

Salesman suggested I wait a couple days, as Suunto brand reps were headed to the store "next week" to train them on two new watches.

The A4 I hope! 


hasto092 said:


> Not much to add, but I have just purchased the A3 Sapphire. Now I have Suunto Ambit 1, 2 Peak, 3 Sport and 3 Sapphire Peak. I must be mental  I will rotate between Garmin Fenix 3 and the A3SP. Was playing with the idea of getting the F3HR but with all the unreliability of the F3 of late I am going to go back to Suunto for a bit. My new watch arrives next Wednesday and I can't wait.
> 
> Gav


Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


----------



## mike_right

OMG!


----------



## HIKESOLO

esmarquette said:


> Stopped in to my friendly Suunto dealer here in Finland to eye an A3 sapphire.
> 
> Salesman suggested I wait a couple days, as Suunto brand reps were headed to the store "next week" to train them on two new watches.
> 
> The A4 I hope!


Hopefully it isn't the Traverse and the A3 Vertical, haha. Technically those both are still new.


----------



## esmarquette

They had Kailash, vertical, Traverse already there. This is one of the flagship stores for Suunto in Finland, where they have every variation including all the Cores and Dive computer. It is one of the stores that receives everything on launch day.

I looked at Kailash and vertical as well, and they said specifically there were new watches coming, which presumably did not refer to the ones I was currently playing with...

So hopefully this means A4 Peak and A4 Sport. Hope this is legit! Time to prep my A2 for sale


----------



## HIKESOLO

Why in the world would they release an Ambit 3 variant RIGHT before launching an Ambit 4? Wouldn't they just hold off the Vertical a month or so and make a vertical variant of the A4?


----------



## esmarquette

Which makes me think they won't use the Ambit name for the Ambit successor. Something to go with the new Kailash and Traverse line. Vertical almost certainly uses the same case/internals as the new Ambit, so probably not a huge amount of sunk costs exclusive to the Vertical, other than the marketing. Pure speculation of course....


----------



## hasto092

esmarquette said:


> Stopped in to my friendly Suunto dealer here in Finland to eye an A3 sapphire.
> 
> Salesman suggested I wait a couple days, as Suunto brand reps were headed to the store "next week" to train them on two new watches.
> 
> The A4 I hope!
> 
> Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


Well that just means a fifth watch will be added to the collection LOL. Bring it on Suunto


----------



## user_none

EatPlayLift said:


> Why in the world would they release an Ambit 3 variant RIGHT before launching an Ambit 4? Wouldn't they just hold off the Vertical a month or so and make a vertical variant of the A4?


That's assuming Suunto wasn't using the Vertical as a test bed for the A4. I hope not, because I really, really like the antenna bump and the accuracy it seems to afford. Regardless, progress marches on!


----------



## Teriemer

hasto092 said:


> Well that just means a fifth watch will be added to the collection LOL. Bring it on Suunto


Indeed - hit me Suunto ;-)


----------



## morey000

EatPlayLift said:


> Why in the world would they release an Ambit 3 variant RIGHT before launching an Ambit 4? ....


Because if there's anything that we know for sure, is that Suunto is really lousy with how do properly do product releases.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

morey000 said:


> Because if there's anything that we know for sure, is that Suunto is really lousy with how do properly do product releases.


Too curious not to ask: What example exactly do you have in mind?

(At some point, I think I'm going to write a case study all around Suunto  )


----------



## wydim

Even for Suunto and their "lousy product release". I cannot imagine an Ambit4 launch so close to the A3V release. Simply not possible. It's like they have 2 CEO in the same building...


----------



## martowl

wydim said:


> Even for Suunto and their "lousy product release". I cannot imagine an Ambit4 launch so close to the A3V release. Simply not possible. It's like they have 2 CEO in the same building...


I tend to agree, even if two "new" watches are coming I would think more diversification. An updated A4 with the Traverse and/or A3V capabilities would decimate sales of these models. I seriously doubt Suunto will do that. What I hope does NOT happen is the end of the Ambit Peak and depending on what you like to do, you buy a specialized model. For me, the A3V with the Peak battery and log capacity would be fine ( I would rather have the nub). I would not be surprised to see something with dramatically enhanced navigational features, to compete with the Epix, which does not seem well loved in the Garmin forums but loses some of the triathlete features. After all, the X9 was one impressive watch for its time.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

martowl said:


> After all, the X9 was one impressive watch for its time.


+1.

Still thinking back on that, partly with remaining annoyance about times I wanted to log a position and couldn't because getting a GPS fix could take forever, partly because it was pretty amazing what it could do. And that was a friggin' decade ago by now. My bday's coming up, and now I feel even older...


----------



## esmarquette

This. If this is the end of the full featured Ambit line, and moving toward specialization, I will not buy Suunto again, run my A2 into the ground, and eventually get a Garmin. The beauty of this tech is the versatility, I can't imagine that we are actually moving toward less functionality.



martowl said:


> I tend to agree, even if two "new" watches are coming I would think more diversification. An updated A4 with the Traverse and/or A3V capabilities would decimate sales of these models. I seriously doubt Suunto will do that. What I hope does NOT happen is the end of the Ambit Peak and depending on what you like to do, you buy a specialized model. For me, the A3V with the Peak battery and log capacity would be fine ( I would rather have the nub). I would not be surprised to see something with dramatically enhanced navigational features, to compete with the Epix, which does not seem well loved in the Garmin forums but loses some of the triathlete features. After all, the X9 was one impressive watch for its time.


----------



## mike_right

esmarquette said:


> This. If this is the end of the full featured Ambit line, and moving toward specialization, I will not buy Suunto again, run my A2 into the ground, and eventually get a Garmin. The beauty of this tech is the versatility, I can't imagine that we are actually moving toward less functionality.


+1

Specialization is ok but always OVER a competitive and powerful base model.

Suunto, we want to see a killer Ambit4 and then do not hesitate to add Vertical, Run, Peak or WTF ever suffixes you want.


----------



## Miszka

Hey guys, I'm new here with zero "post count", so I'm not able to post a link, but if you look on facebook for Gediminas Grinius, Suunto athlete, he is super excited about the new developments at the Suunto lab and spills that something big is coming. He is PEAK user for years.


----------



## morey000

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Too curious not to ask: What example exactly do you have in mind?
> 
> (At some point, I think I'm going to write a case study all around Suunto  )


*
The Traverse.* It wasn't "announced" at all. Some info about the watch, and some images were leaked. then later- it was displayed at a trade show with the same limited information about it. the product wasn't sent to any of the prominent reviewers. So- forums like this figured it out, but really- nobody knew about the watch, nobody had a review or even quick-look at it when Suunto finally put up info on their web site. The whole roll-out seemed unplanned. PR opportunities completely lost.

Normally- reps would work with reviewers (such as yourself) and magazines and give them information about a new product, beta products, when the moratorium ends and the date and time that they could post about the product. A scheduled announcement to the media to garner as much PR as possible. Deals with all the major retailers to have the new product up on their web sites, and a projected ship date. Or something like that.

Suunto certainly flubbed this one.


----------



## Joaquinpe

Bueno parece que según confirma @GediminasGriniu estamos cerca de conocer el nuevo Buque insignia de Suunto.
Rapido porfavor!


----------



## newtonfb

I really hope they dont sacrifice battery life for new features like color screen and whatnot. The A3 Peak 200hr battery life when hiking for multiple days is unreal. The traverse does half that.


----------



## morey000

So here's a summary of what we know from Gediminas:
*
Innovation waves are coming... you won't be disappointed... soon, very soon
It's all about functionality, not the name *(i.e.- so it may not be called the Ambit 4).

So- what are we thinking? Longer battery life (like the Peak). That's obvious. maybe a color screen?
New slick packaging?

if nothing else- the Peak will be on sale soon.


----------



## Miszka

I think it might a new approach to measure the intensity of a run, a power-meter for runners, STRYD-like. Plus watchface as solar power? And Strava live segments?


----------



## ModestGP

I'm so intrigued!! 
Even if they launch a new model, being the Ambit4 or not, I'm not sorry to just have bought the Traverse for me and my wife.


----------



## morey000

miszkafiszman said:


> I think it might a new approach to measure the intensity of a run, a power-meter for runners, STRYD-like....


Good thinking! there is already an app for that however. works surprisingly well.

RUNNING POWER v4 - App at Movescount.com

kudos to danielp27's profile - Member at Movescount.com for developing it.


----------



## DJFaithful

morey000;[URL="javascript:dialecticDial('[URL="javascript:dialecticDial('25945050');" said:


> 25945050[/URL]');"]25945050]So here's a summary of what we know from Gediminas:
> *
> Innovation waves are coming... you won't be disappointed... soon, very soon
> It's all about functionality, not the name *)


But the big question is, will it count steps?


----------



## bruceames

My guess is that it'll be the Peak version of the Vertical, probably with a few extra bells and whistles added. Maybe they'll even offer it optionally with the Stryd belt included.


----------



## arnea

Completely new platform - the current one is maxed out.


----------



## mike_right

arnea said:


> Completely new platform - the current one is maxed out.


In my opinion, other step aside by Suunto will be a fail. Imagine if we were talking about Apple instead of Suunto.

Would you understand an strategy like IPhone 6s, iPhone 6ss, iPhone 6sss, and so on?

Specially when the competence is breaking the market with so innovative products and features that mass market really want.

I have an ambit 2s. It is a great watch. I love it. But to be honest I love it as a 2013 watch. Today I want, sorry, "need" more.

Do yo want a black and white robust full of battery watch? Do not worry, Suunto has a tone of them.

But today they do not have the ONE that has to positioning Suunto as a killer brand again.

Suunto it is your time. 
Come on, we want you to make an all-in.


----------



## Joaquinpe

Buenos días desde España compañeros!
ayer hable largo con Gedeminad y le pedí que suunto tenía que dar un pasado adelante:
actividad diaria
pantalla a color
app actualizada tipo Garmin conect
interface de pantallas de reloj
etc etc 
vamos un Fenix 3 con la precisión y calidad de un Ambit 3 
su respuesta:
SI ESPERA NO QUEDARÁ DECEPCIONADO.


----------



## mike_right

Joaquinpe said:


> Buenos días desde España compañeros!
> ayer hable largo con Gedeminad y le pedí que suunto tenía que dar un pasado adelante:
> actividad diaria
> pantalla a color
> app actualizada tipo Garmin conect
> interface de pantallas de reloj
> etc etc
> vamos un Fenix 3 con la precisión y calidad de un Ambit 3
> su respuesta:
> SI ESPERA NO QUEDARÁ DECEPCIONADO.


Let's see!

Veremos a ver! Ojalá porque el mercado necesita ese tipo de competencia para poder evolucionar. 
Apple y Samsung. Coca-Cola y Pepsi. Suunto y Garmin ;-)


----------



## Joaquinpe

Creo que esta vez es la buena 
Un atleta con el nombre de Gediminas no extendería falsos rumores.
Se acerca la hora!!!!


----------



## Miszka

Joaquinpe said:


> Creo que esta vez es la buena
> Un atleta con el nombre de Gediminas no extendería falsos rumores.
> Se acerca la hora!!!!


We all love Gediminas, he is an incredible person. Did he say something about the timeframe? Is the June, 11th correct?


----------



## Joaquinpe

No dijo nada de cuánto tardaría en salir solo que pronto.
De dónde sacas lo del 11 de junio?


----------



## wydim

if Gediminas knows that much but obviously cannot tell, I'm surprised that Kilian Jornet and Ueli Steck are silent about upcoming Suunto releases. I mean, shouldn't they also get the hype going ? or maybe it's too soon.

Maybe this time, Suunto has planned a 6 months PR campaign. Gediminas starts rumors for 2 months, then Ueli feeds it for 2 months after that, and then BAM ! Kilian announces the new best watch in the world !

Oouuuuhhhhhh I'm excited like a little kid on Christmas Eve!!


----------



## Miszka

Joaquinpe said:


> No dijo nada de cuánto tardaría en salir solo que pronto.
> De dónde sacas lo del 11 de junio?


The date is coming from the partnership with World Triathlon competition in Leeds, UK (11-12 of June).
The new Ambit needs to be premiered before, like 920 before Kona. Suunto wouldn't fight for such exposure without a major new product in the run-bike-swim category.


----------



## Miszka

wydim said:


> if Gediminas knows that much but obviously cannot tell, I'm surprised that Kilian Jornet and Ueli Steck are silent about upcoming Suunto releases. I mean, shouldn't they also get the hype going ? or maybe it's too soon. Maybe this time, Suunto has planned a 6 months PR campaign. Gediminas starts rumors for 2 months, then Ueli feeds it for 2 months after that, and then BAM ! Kilian announces the new best watch in the world ! Oouuuuhhhhhh I'm excited like a little kid on Christmas Eve!!


I doubt that Gediminas is a cog in Suunto hype-machine, he is just very active in social media, thus attracting sponsors for his half-amateur endevours. Promoting the trip to Suunto lab it seems he spilled too much, but it won't sink any ships, would it?


----------



## bruceames

arnea said:


> Completely new platform - the current one is maxed out.


Well if this new watch isn't getting released for 4 months then yes. The A3 is due for a major upgrade anyway by then. I thought they were bringing in a new watch out of the blue like they did the Vertical (and even Traverse). In 4 months a new Ambit (or whatever they call it) won't be stepping on the Traverse/Vertical toes so much.


----------



## mramon

Any news over there? 


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## Garda

Wondering when will Suunto incorporate optical heart rate sensor to their watches ? 
We will probably not going to see it in Ambit 4 series. 
Seems like Garmin is going in that direction. Fenix 3 HR review is up at Garmin Fenix3 HR In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker
And Polar is experimenting with their A360 model.


----------



## bruceames

Garda said:


> Wondering when will Suunto incorporate optical heart rate sensor to their watches ?
> We will probably not going to see it in Ambit 4 series.
> Seems like Garmin is going in that direction. Fenix 3 HR review is up at Garmin Fenix3 HR In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker
> And Polar is experimenting with their A360 model.


I hope not. Not interested in 'ball park' accuracy nor reduced battery life. Let Garmin and Polar cater to the casual crowd.


----------



## mitsumaru

bruceames said:


> I hope not. Not interested in 'ball park' accuracy nor reduced battery life. Let Garmin and Polar cater to the casual crowd.


Nothing wrong with optical HR, it will be complementary in the beginning. You can always use normal HR belt if needed. It will be future at some point, so companies need to try that out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bruceames

mitsumaru said:


> Nothing wrong with optical HR, it will be complementary in the beginning. You can always use normal HR belt if needed. It will be future at some point, so companies need to try that out.


 Does it add anything to the cost of the watch? Looks like in this case the price went up $100. Does the bump go away when you're not using it? I can't see that a permanent bump on the back of the watch being as comfortable as not having a bump there.

I agree it's a useful feature for many people, but better for Suunto to have a separate line than to be like Garmin and try to cram every little feature into one watch.


----------



## martowl

mitsumaru said:


> Nothing wrong with optical HR, it will be complementary in the beginning. You can always use normal HR belt if needed. It will be future at some point, so companies need to try that out.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lots wrong with optical HR. I do not want it, period. Adds weight and bulk and it is inaccurate for gauging real effort ( optical cannot send HRV), recovery and stress. There is a ton wrong with incorporating this....I hope Suunto does not, I 100% disagree.

Get et an Apple Watch or Garmin if you want optical HR.


----------



## mitsumaru

martowl said:


> Lots wrong with optical HR. I do not want it, period. Adds weight and bulk and it is inaccurate for gauging real effort ( optical cannot send HRV), recovery and stress. There is a ton wrong with incorporating this....I hope Suunto does not, I 100% disagree.
> 
> Get et an Apple Watch or Garmin if you want optical HR.


Sure, agreed. But as technology matures, it will be mainstream. Better reliability, less weight, more measurements and more convenience will come with next generations.

Otherwise we could be quite happy with just stopwatch (and many are).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Garda

I agree with Mitsumaru. Optical HR needs to mature and improve, but it will be embedded in more and more watches. Same thing has happened with GPS. 10 yeas ago there were many watches with seperate GPS pods, now almost every sport and hiking watch has GPS chipsets incorporated in the watch. And I think same will happen with optical HR. Sure it need to get more accurate and consume less enery and I am sure it will, as technology usually moves forward and things improve with each generation.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

... and still no espresso.

And there we were just arguing if a step counter was needed on the Vertical or not, showing how different attitudes towards technology can be - even before one starts considering its accuracy, uses and usefulness, reliability, etc. (and while leaving aside that it's still up to us to make something sensible of it all...)


----------



## martowl

mitsumaru said:


> martowl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots wrong with optical HR. I do not want it, period. Adds weight and bulk and it is inaccurate for gauging real effort ( optical cannot send HRV), recovery and stress. There is a ton wrong with incorporating this....I hope Suunto does not, I 100% disagree.
> 
> Get et an Apple Watch or Garmin if you want optical HR.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, agreed. But as technology matures, it will be mainstream. Better reliability, less weight, more measurements and more convenience will come with next generations.
> 
> Otherwise we could be quite happy with just stopwatch (and many are).
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

But optical HR is not ready yet. The point of the post was whether or not the new Ambit should have it. If running power can be incorporated and perfected as has been done in biking, power will be a much more useful metric than HR.


----------



## morey000

martowl said:


> Lots wrong with optical HR. I do not want it, period. Adds weight and bulk and it is inaccurate for gauging real effort ( optical cannot send HRV), recovery and stress. There is a ton wrong with incorporating this....I hope Suunto does not, I 100% disagree.
> 
> Get et an Apple Watch or Garmin if you want optical HR.


I use a Mio Link (optical) as my HR monitor. After years of battling static interference with a variety of chest straps, adding gel, spraying with Static Guard, ugh. they were always a mess (note: I live in a very dry climate) Plus, my optical wrist strap works fine when swimming- so I get real time HR. As for HRV- it's interesting stuff, but given how many other things affect HRV, its usefulness in accurately assessing training fatigue is limited. An elevated resting HR is also a good indicator- and a watch with a built in HR sensor- could do this.

Anyway- my optical HR monitor works way better for me than my chest straps ever did. I would love to have it embedded into my next watch. One less thing to wear. I 100% disagree with your 100% disagreement. The Ambit 4 will be $600 anyway- might as well come with the feature. Note: you don't need to use it.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

But everything that's built in and "doesn't have to be used" still adds weight, complexity, battery drain. Useless to discuss, anyways. People who want something will complain if they don't get it, people who don't won't care - and we'll just have to wait and see what Suunto's been deciding on.


----------



## morey000

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> But everything that's built in and "doesn't have to be used" still adds weight, complexity, battery drain. Useless to discuss, anyways. People who want something will complain if they don't get it, people who don't won't care - and we'll just have to wait and see what Suunto's been deciding on.


tru dat. just registering that there are those of us who want the feature. Although- pretty sure that it doesn't use more battery... if you don't use it.


----------



## martowl

morey000 said:


> tru dat. just registering that there are those of us who want the feature. Although- pretty sure that it doesn't use more battery... if you don't use it.


Wait.... I have the solution....include an espresso maker!
Ok I respect your opinions morey000. If the optical was as good as the current smart sense belt AND there was no added bulk AND there was no added weight AND there was no added battery drain compared to the current Peak, I would be ok.

Perhaps the best solution if it comes is what Garmin did and offer both but keep exactly the same feature set. Somehow I do not see Suunto doing this.


----------



## morey000

I like espresso.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

morey000 said:


> I like espresso.


+1. But only on/in/of Suunto.

Waiting for a special edition from 'em called Espresso. Maybe in the Watchuseek, uhm, World Collection


----------



## mike_right

By the way, no news, no espresso :-(


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

mike_right said:


> By the way, no news, no espresso :-(


Good things take time. (Admittedly, I'm telling my marketing contact at Suunto they should just start teasing  )


----------



## mike_right

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Good things take time. (Admittedly, I'm telling my marketing contact at Suunto they should just start teasing  )


We want to know!
We want to believe! ;-)
We need more!


----------



## Miszka

The one thing we know is that it won't be called Ambit. Any hunches about the new name?


----------



## anto1980

GHOST! 
Ahahhahahah


miszkafiszman said:


> The one thing we know is that it won't be called Ambit. Any hunches about the new name?


----------



## roots_n_rocks

miszkafiszman said:


> The one thing we know is that it won't be called Ambit. Any hunches about the new name?


GYMA (gimme your money again)


----------



## mike_right

Suunto AWE 4 (Ambit Without Espresso)


----------



## anto1980

AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAAHAHHAHHHA


----------



## jaguarana

I went shopping last week at a Suunto dealer . I asked him if he knows when the next Ambit peak comes out. He told me that the peak is replaced by the vertical with a larger battery . Precis details unfortunately he could not tell me . Only that it comes out in the fall .


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

jaguarana said:


> I went shopping last week at a Suunto dealer . I asked him if he knows when the next Ambit peak comes out. He told me that the peak is replaced by the vertical with a larger battery . Precis details unfortunately he could not tell me . Only that it comes out in the fall .


This actually means that he knows nothing (well, okay, that the antenna bump disappears; big surprise), which is also how Suunto plays it cards...

Edit: Summer-fall is likely, though.


----------



## ModestGP

Please!! Tell us something!!
Just a little detail...


----------



## jaguarana

He said specifically that it Ambit Peak will be no more but that they will be replaced by the Vertical. A detail that he called was that the new Vertical is slightly thicker.


----------



## morey000

jaguarana said:


> He said specifically that it Ambit Peak will be no more but that they will be replaced by the Vertical. A detail that he called was that the new Vertical is slightly thicker.


Just a reminder. About a month ago from Gediminas:
*
"Innovation waves are coming... you won't be disappointed... soon, very soon"

*So - if it's just a fatter, longer battery life Vertical, and it takes until the fall to get here... Gediminas was misleading, we will all be disappointed, and Suunto will no longer have a relevant product in this space. Garmin is moving fast with features and innovation.

Just due to development costs and technology advancement- I don't believe that Suunto will be able to match feature for feature with a Fenix3HR. So- they need to come up with something else compelling and different. How about- integrating a running power estimation (Stryd) (heck, Daniel P has already given them the app), and updating Movescount with a full Performance Management tool like cyclists use. Vertical Power!


----------



## jaguarana

morey000 said:


> Just a reminder. About a month ago from Gediminas:
> *
> "Innovation waves are coming... you won't be disappointed... soon, very soon"
> 
> *So - if it's just a fatter, longer battery life Vertical, and it takes until the fall to get here... Gediminas was misleading, we will all be disappointed, and Suunto will no longer have a relevant product in this space. Garmin is moving fast with features and innovation.
> 
> Just due to development costs and technology advancement- I don't believe that Suunto will be able to match feature for feature with a Fenix3HR. So- they need to come up with something else compelling and different. How about- integrating a running power estimation (Stryd) (heck, Daniel P has already given them the app), and updating Movescount with a full Performance Management tool like cyclists use. Vertical Power!


I believe the statement by Gediminas . But I think that this model of which he speaks is a new category in the Suunto product line. Who knows...


----------



## Miszka

morey000 said:


> How about- integrating a running power estimation (Stryd) (heck, Daniel P has already given them the app), and updating Movescount with a full Performance Management tool like cyclists use. Vertical Power!


I think you are correct, it might the only way to beat Garmin. Fenix sells are through the roof, beating all estimations, DCR was saying recently about half mil units. Right now you can have the Fenix 3 in Europe for 359 euros, Suunto is way more expensive. Suunto really need to refocus the conversation, do some ju-jitsu and "move to the side". To the Stryd side? Maybe they should buy the company and teach us how to run on something else than HR. If not, if Polar and Sunnto will take small steps (who is to be happy with just a colour display?), than it's future lies with Ericcson and Nokia, in the technological Valhalla, not at the running stores.

Taking it from various sources, I think we can all bet on the Vertcal/Traverse factor. If the battery of the Peak is to be matched, it has to be definetly beefier than the Vertical. I wonder if they produce something as eye-catching as Fenix 3, the watch is everyday-gorgeous.


----------



## Teriemer

I don't want a million features, I don't need to be online while I'm running. I just want a reliable, accurate and consistent watch (the A3S/P does this really well).

Here's what I see: 
- I high res color screen would be a nice touch
- Getting rid of the antenna bump
- Light weight, that is about 60g would be lovely
- An upload link that works every time (BT or WIFI)

That would definitely make make my day and place my order ;-)


----------



## HIKESOLO

I originally wanted a color screen, but now I'm not so sure. The color screen on the Fenix 3 is not very good. It's very dim and tough to read unless you put the backlight on. If Suunto can implement a better version of a color screen then I'm all-in. But if it would be on par with Garmin I'd rather keep the black/white and the boost to battery life. 

Package up the Vertical with a better battery, keep it thin/light, and I think I would be pretty happy. Pair that with an overhaul of the Movescount mobile apps (make them more reliable) and I'd be a happy camper.

On a side note - If they really are breaking things into specific packages (Traverse, Vertical, Kailash, etc) I'm fascinated why they would call the Vertical an Ambit 3 variant. Why wouldn't they just separate it out. They could start the Traverse line, Vertical line, and whatever the new name is for the "A4". The Traverse would be for casual/hiking crowd, Vertical would replace the "Sport" and the new version of the Peak A3 could be called something on it's own. Linking the Vertical as an A3 variant seemed weird to me. I know software-wise it's very similar, but the design is completely new. Weird.


----------



## bruceames

I think there's a market for a watch with extra long battery life that's not being filled. Multi-day hikers and ultra runners are always having to make compromises on GPS quality or bringing a battery pack. Especially the ultra runners would appreciate a 36 hour battery @ 1s GPS interval. There's no watch that can do that and the sport is growing not shrinking. Hopefully the Peak replacement will improve upon the 20 hours and still have the same accuracy (or better, if that's possible).


----------



## mike_right

Reading all the comments I see that Suunto has a lot of work and it is nearly impossible to satisfy all the users needs. 

Full battery, thin like a sheet. 
Full color screen, contrasted like electronic ink.
Full customizable, easy to use. 
Full espresso, with decaf and machiatto support. 

Suunto, who is your client and what he/she needs? I think Garmin was so much faster to answer that question. 

Let see what Suunto is going to answer ;-)


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

mike_right said:


> Reading all the comments I see that Suunto has a lot of work and it is nearly impossible to satisfy all the users needs.
> 
> Full battery, thin like a sheet.
> Full color screen, contrasted like electronic ink.
> Full customizable, easy to use.
> Full espresso, with decaf and machiatto support.
> 
> Suunto, who is your client and what he/she needs? I think Garmin was so much faster to answer that question.
> 
> Let see what Suunto is going to answer ;-)


Two things:

One, lifestyle and sports sectors have definitely been separated already.
(Also, re. Garmin: I just heard Ray Maker in a podcast say that Garmin's approach seems/seemed to have been to come out with many products and then see what actually sticks/works, and...)

Two, the above list of impossibilities desired is only missing one thing: Suunto is still considerably smaller than Garmin, and things take time to get developed, tested, etc. Where Suunto can't just throw things out given its size. (And they've recently been on quite a hiring spree for software/app designers, I've noticed.)

By the way: app updates are coming; the Android app should be much more satisfying shortly. For those who need that sort of thing - which leads right back to the question of "who is your client". I've turned off most notification functions and am much happier now; guess I'm certainly a Suunto customer rather than a Garmin one on that.


----------



## rdm01

EatPlayLift said:


> I originally wanted a color screen, but now I'm not so sure. The color screen on the Fenix 3 is not very good. It's very dim and tough to read unless you put the backlight on. If Suunto can implement a better version of a color screen then I'm all-in. But if it would be on par with Garmin I'd rather keep the black/white and the boost to battery life.
> 
> Package up the Vertical with a better battery, keep it thin/light, and I think I would be pretty happy. Pair that with an overhaul of the Movescount mobile apps (make them more reliable) and I'd be a happy camper.
> 
> On a side note - If they really are breaking things into specific packages (Traverse, Vertical, Kailash, etc) I'm fascinated why they would call the Vertical an Ambit 3 variant. Why wouldn't they just separate it out. They could start the Traverse line, Vertical line, and whatever the new name is for the "A4". The Traverse would be for casual/hiking crowd, Vertical would replace the "Sport" and the new version of the Peak A3 could be called something on it's own. Linking the Vertical as an A3 variant seemed weird to me. I know software-wise it's very similar, but the design is completely new. Weird.


I'm agree suunto screen is more readable than F3 at low-light environment.

Perfect ambit to me is an ambit3 peak with elevation profile (better if they add zoom too) and vibration alert. I don't want to say bye bye to he bulb antenna if GPS accuracy is 1mm worse.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## JonnoBird

I'd be happy if they just fix the bugs in the A3V. The firmware needs to move forward from 1.0.


----------



## Larry115

I have a chance to return my Fenix 3...I was a Suunto ambit3 sport user (triathlete). I got fed up with movescount app and sold it and that when I purchased the Fenix 3. What is the general consensus between the vertical and Fenix 3? Should I swap back to Suunto and go for the vertical...I actually like the looks better than the Fenix 3. The Fenix 3 also links better with the Garmin connect app.......help!


----------



## rdm01

Larry115 said:


> I have a chance to return my Fenix 3...I was a Suunto ambit3 sport user (triathlete). I got fed up with movescount app and sold it and that when I purchased the Fenix 3. What is the general consensus between the vertical and Fenix 3? Should I swap back to Suunto and go for the vertical...I actually like the looks better than the Fenix 3. The Fenix 3 also links better with the Garmin connect app.......help!


In my experience the vertical got a little bit better gps than F3 but not so good as A3P/S/R. Also if you got Android app you can't use the workout planner yet (a problem with android movescount app)

deporteporvida.com


----------



## paul1928

Teriemer said:


> - Light weight, that is about 60g would be lovely


I want this too, but I'm not sure we'll get it.

The plastic used in the Ambit is surprisingly thick, there is quite a bit of empty space inside, the bezel is very heavy and it's where most of the unit's weight is. The guts of the watch is a wafer-thin PCB with all the smarts and the LCD mounted on top, a very small 220 or 440mAh battery down the bottom and a tiny GPS chip and antenna mounted in the sticky-outy-bit.

It's probably a combination of over-engineered to make an incredibly durable watch and perhaps Suunto thinking their male users _want_ a big chunky watch that they can feel on their wrists.


----------



## antjoh

rdm01 said:


> Also if you got Android app you can't use the workout planner yet (a problem with android movescount app)


I'm quickly losing faith in Suunto development and support. I reported this issue the 31st of July last year and it still haven't been fixed. I've approached them once a month trying to get a status update only to get a reply saying that they don't know when it will be sorted. The last two inquiry's they didn't even bother to respond to so I'm starting to think that they don't know what they are doing.


----------



## rdm01

antjoh said:


> I'm quickly losing faith in Suunto development and support. I reported this issue the 31st of July last year and it still haven't been fixed. I've approached them once a month trying to get a status update only to get a reply saying that they don't know when it will be sorted. The last two inquiry's they didn't even bother to respond to so I'm starting to think that they don't know what they are doing.


My comment was about A3 Vertical. Workout planner is working good with android and my A3S and my former A3P. I reported the Vertical issue to suunto on February with no success yet.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## antjoh

rdm01 said:


> My comment was about A3 Vertical. Workout planner is working good with android and my A3S and my former A3P. I reported the Vertical issue to suunto on February with no success yet.


My comment is about the Ambit3 Peak, and it still doesn't work


----------



## rdm01

antjoh said:


> My comment is about the Ambit3 Peak, and it still doesn't work


I'd like to know what is the problem with the workout planner, android and your ambit3 peak. Mine with vertical is the workout planner missing button in the movescount app. If I pair A3S or A3P the button is there and I can create any workout.

I tested with galaxy note 4, galaxy S4 and Nexus 6.

deporteporvida.com


----------



## paul1928

antjoh said:


> My comment is about the Ambit3 Peak, and it still doesn't work


Seconded.  A year on and I still can't access the workout planner in the Android app on my Sony Xperia Z1c. Quite a bit of the UI doesn't work for me.


----------



## zipuni

Big news coming from Suunto (read the post of the Suunto ambassador). Can it be the A4?!?

__
http://instagr.am/p/BDZORkxPR3f/


----------



## morey000

zipuni said:


> Big news coming from Suunto (read the post of the Suunto ambassador). Can it be the A4?!?
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BDZORkxPR3f/


*Six weeks ago* Gediminas posted this:
https://www.facebook.com/GriniusGed...819207866033/1206897872658160/?type=3&theater

Which said "innovation waves are coming soon" Very soon. "you won't be disappointed" So, yeah- they're going to release a new watch (which is always a true statement).

Is there a big outdoor show coming up somewhere? Like- i dunno'. the Boston Marathon expo? (3 weeks today)


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

morey000 said:


> *Six weeks ago* Gediminas posted this:
> https://www.facebook.com/GriniusGed...819207866033/1206897872658160/?type=3&theater
> 
> Which said "innovation waves are coming soon" Very soon. "you won't be disappointed" So, yeah- they're going to release a new watch (which is always a true statement).
> 
> Is there a big outdoor show coming up somewhere? Like- i dunno'. the Boston Marathon expo? (3 weeks today)


See, this is why Suunto is so loath to publish teasers... because as soon as there's anything official-ish, people want it yesterday. My bet is on the timing being closer to OutDoor Friedrichshafen / OR Show (summer), at least for full specs/release.


----------



## HIKESOLO

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> See, this is why Suunto is so loath to publish teasers... because as soon as there's anything official-ish, people want it yesterday. My bet is on the timing being closer to OutDoor Friedrichshafen / OR Show (summer), at least for full specs/release.


It's probably a good thing for Suunto that people want things yesterday. I'd rather have high demand and customers waiting in line for my next product than to have low interest  Once people aren't excited anymore for your next product your company is in trouble.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Sure thing, just not totally sure when people go overboard with their expectations and/or with "promises" that never were such...


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Sure thing, just not totally sure when people go overboard with their expectations and/or with "promises" that never were such...


espresso maker....


----------



## newtonfb

That's a bad thing? In everyone's defense, suunto is about a year behind of releasing an updated ambit. The new vertical and traverse are downgrades of the peak. The peak could have all those features with a software update. I love my peak but its time for an update.


----------



## Jeff_C

I was just about to say.... lol nice to see I did leave some legacy here lol!


----------



## Jeff_C

martowl said:


> espresso maker....


I was just about to say this! 


Jeff_C said:


> I was just about to say.... lol nice to see I did leave some legacy here lol!


----------



## martowl

Jeff_C said:


> I was just about to say.... lol nice to see I did leave some legacy here lol!


You left a great legacy...we won't let you be forgotten Jeff!


----------



## Jeff_C

martowl said:


> You left a great legacy...we won't let you be forgotten Jeff!


Operation wrist espresso! Lol


----------



## -J-T-A-

newtonfb said:


> That's a bad thing? In everyone's defense, suunto is about a year behind of releasing an updated ambit. The new vertical and traverse are downgrades of the peak. The peak could have all those features with a software update. I love my peak but its time for an update.


I would like to see how they remove gps bulge and add vibration alarm to Peak with software update. xD


----------



## newtonfb

-J-T-A- said:


> newtonfb said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a bad thing? In everyone's defense, suunto is about a year behind of releasing an updated ambit. The new vertical and traverse are downgrades of the peak. The peak could have all those features with a software update. I love my peak but its time for an update.
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to see how they remove gps bulge and add vibration alarm to Peak with software update. xD
Click to expand...

Besides those two things its all software. You can make an argument that the bulge has better reception. Either way, those two things alone don't qualify for a generation leap.


----------



## HIKESOLO

newtonfb said:


> Besides those two things its all software. You can make an argument that the bulge has better reception. Either way, those two things alone don't qualify for a generation leap.


I disagree. Removing the bulge and adding in vibration alerts is a pretty large leap for Suunto. Suunto clearly wants to position themselves more towards the adventure athlete who doesn't need every feature under the sun, but rather a reliable device. We don't need a massive jump. Honestly to me a Vertical with the battery life of the Peak would be enough. It wouldn't be a generation leap on Garmin's scale, but big enough for Suunto. The Vertical is an extremely comfortable watch to wear.


----------



## wydim

Honestly, I would still be pleased with the original Ambit1. For me, it does everything I need and more. Now I have an Ambit2 saphire and the HR belt only works sporadically, I would trade it for an Ambit1 if that meant getting back a working HR belt.


----------



## Garda

wydim said:


> Honestly, I would still be pleased with the original Ambit1. For me, it does everything I need and more. Now I have an Ambit2 saphire and the HR belt only works sporadically, I would trade it for an Ambit1 if that meant getting back a working HR belt.


Wow...I have the exact same problem with my Ambit 2 Sapphire. I thouht I was the only one. At some point Suunto even send me a DUAL heart rate belt. Did not really helped the matter. I have tried tighten the belt, use heart rate gel and I still get dropouts in the middle of an excercise. If I just moisten the belt under water ...forget it, it is totally useless, no heart rate reading for like 30 min, until I really start to sweat. Quite frustrating for a watch that cost over 500 eur. Thats why I am secretly hoping that they would introduce a new side line of watches with optical heart rate. Scosche rhythm+ sensors seem to work great. I know i know that optical sensors can not read R-R data just yet, therefore no Vo2max, EPOC, recovery functions and so on.


----------



## morey000

wydim said:


> Honestly, I would still be pleased with the original Ambit1. For me, it does everything I need and more. Now I have an Ambit2 saphire and the HR belt only works sporadically, I would trade it for an Ambit1 if that meant getting back a working HR belt.


A sporadic HR belt- is most likely the problem of the belt, not the watch. Sometimes the belt (not the clip in electronics box) just needs to be replaced. they don't last long. < 1yr generally. (except those early hard plastic garmin belts. they're tanks). Or- a problem with static. you can use conductive gel (like Spectra 360) and/or spray your tech shirt with Static Guard before your runs. some things to try.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Well, expect to be surprised about the leap.

Just if someone wants to know where I'm coming from:
I've been using Suunto devices for something like 20 years now, been in touch with the company for almost as long... and perhaps the greatest trouble they got into during all that time was when the Ambit1 couldn't be updated as they wanted to update the line, and the Ambit2 was introduced. Oh, was that an outcry.
(And some of the "promises" they didn't fulfill weren't even due to a miscommunication from Suunto, it was - at least the way I got to experience it - the doings of a very popular gear reviewer throwing a wrench into their PR plans...)
So now, to be hearing that "Suunto is overdue" because they haven't released a new Ambit generation a year after the last new device, while all the interactions between devices and apps can still be improved (and are in the process of being improved), and while the older devices still fulfill their function very well... Well, I don't know.

I'm a bit of a Luddite that way. And an early-adopter geek, coz... guess who must be getting on his contacts' nerves because he's ardently hoping for a chance to test whatever comes next, asap...


----------



## JoggWithoutDog

Well, Gerald, I changed the brand regarding the Ambit1 behaviour of Suunto ... although I still love the older ones (Sunnto t6/t6c/t6d ... you know 
Now I am happy with Polar- and Garmin-GPS watches ... but the development of the last years of all that companies seems to be like in the computer area: To often to much new gadgets ... and all(!) of them do not working the way customers want - even not after a year of so. Hope, Polar, Garmin and the most Suunto will be more "customer-friendly" in future ... and maybe I will return back to it.
Joachim


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Just the person to think of when it comes to the above-mentioned outcry 

Nice to still see you around; I think things will look differently this time: People are waiting for the next watch, eagerly, and the app for it is already out and being worked on more...


----------



## newtonfb

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Well, expect to be surprised about the leap.
> 
> Just if someone wants to know where I'm coming from:
> I've been using Suunto devices for something like 20 years now, been in touch with the company for almost as long... and perhaps the greatest trouble they got into during all that time was when the Ambit1 couldn't be updated as they wanted to update the line, and the Ambit2 was introduced. Oh, was that an outcry.
> (And some of the "promises" they didn't fulfill weren't even due to a miscommunication from Suunto, it was - at least the way I got to experience it - the doings of a very popular gear reviewer throwing a wrench into their PR plans...)
> So now, to be hearing that "Suunto is overdue" because they haven't released a new Ambit generation a year after the last new device, while all the interactions between devices and apps can still be improved (and are in the process of being improved), and while the older devices still fulfill their function very well... Well, I don't know.
> 
> I'm a bit of a Luddite that way. And an early-adopter geek, coz... guess who must be getting on his contacts' nerves because he's ardently hoping for a chance to test whatever comes next, asap...


To be fair its been 2 years since the peak was released. Summer of 2014. 
I don't expect leaps and bounds. The one thing I need to stay is the 200hr battery since I go on lots of multi day camping trips. The Garmin series only gets 50hr. Don't get me wrong I'd love a color screen but I know the technology for battery life isn't there yet. What I do want is the ability to customize our watchfaces to have any info we want(sunsets, tides, activity, etc.) Suunto desperatly needs to get a mobile team overhaul, in 2016 they are embarrassingly behind what tons of other companies do. Something as simple as the watch not being able to automatically reconnect to your phone.

I just hope with whatever they do they keep the battery life.


----------



## paul1928

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> So now, to be hearing that "Suunto is overdue" because they haven't released a new Ambit generation a year after the last new device)


No, we're hearing "Suunto is overdue" because they've fallen behind on their major competitor's hardware (Fenix 3 vs Ambit3) and software (Garmin Connect vs Movescount) offering.

One thing this thread hasn't really covered is the state of the accompanying app.. I've heard many people say "I'm thinking about an Ambit3, but I hear so much bad stuff about problems with their app...". Yes, BLE in Android is a fickle beast, but Garmin Connect got it (relatively!) down pat in 6 months and now offers a feature-rich app with things like proper notifications. Sadly, the same can't be said for the Movescount app.


----------



## Quotron

paul1928 said:


> No, we're hearing "Suunto is overdue" because they've literally fallen _years_ behind on Garmin's hardware (Fenix 3 vs Ambit3) and software (Garmin Connect vs Movescount) offering.


What are the hardware features that the Garmin F3 has that are a qualitative improvement over the A3? The case can be made for vibration alerts, no doubt, but I just don't see what else there is.

Personally, I hope Suunto continues to improve things on the back-end (Movescount, Moveslink, etc...) and not worry about people who want to change devices as frequently as they change underwear.


----------



## paul1928

newtonfb said:


> You can make an argument that the bulge has better reception.


Based on other's and my own testing, I'd call it fact, not an argument.  (Unless of course you call anything less than a n=1000 double-blinded test an "argument", of course 

The Vertical's accuracy isn't as good as the Peak's (especially under challenging conditions), it burns through more power to achieve it (~8.5 hours rather than the 10 you get with the Sport and Run - same 220mAh battery, same SiRFstarV GPS chipset) and it logs points far coarser than the Peak (once every 3-4 seconds compared to the Peak's 1-2 seconds with "Best").


----------



## paul1928

Quotron said:


> What are the hardware features that the Garmin F3 has that are a qualitative improvement over the A3?


By hardware I'm referring to design and looks. Here in Australia Garmin are on an advertising blitz showing the Fenix 3 off as a rugged outdoors/sports watch as well as a sexy day-to-day watch. I'm not sure the current line up of Ambit can compete in the looks dept. - although the Vertical is getting closer. 

Personally I don't care about the looks - I want reliability of the major features. But when it comes to moving units and staying commercially viable...


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

It's a funny (or aggravating) thing there to just look at expectations, customers, "value" in the marketplace.

On the one hand, you have that "Suunto is years behind" which is basically due to their not having a color screen and maybe a design that is less everyday-worthy in its looks.

On the other hand, now that the Ambit's unsexy "nose" is starting to disappear, you get the complaints about poorer GPS reception. Next up, if a color screen comes, it will be all "why is the battery life not as good as before?!"

It's a situation where it's a "damned whatever you do" - unless they separate the lines further still...


----------



## Glajda

I really hope they install enough memory this time. I really don't want to worry about syncing if I'm away for a week.

And after all these years there is still no way to record your weight in Movescount. One would think that at least a part of Suunto's users would like to have this ability.


----------



## Miszka

I totally agree with separating the lines. Ideally would be having "rugged lifestyle" watch like Fenix 3, and lighter/uglier tri-workhorse like 920 XT.


----------



## newtonfb

Glajda said:


> I really hope they install enough memory this time. I really don't want to worry about syncing if I'm away for a week.


 I hear ya on that. I was so pissed last year when I went on a 2 week trip and few days in and memory was full. I couldn't believe it.


----------



## HIKESOLO

Heck, while they are at it they should release 2 versions of the "Peak"  

One without a color screen, that includes the GPS bulge, but with some updates (like vibration alerts) that can last as long as the current version (200 hours).

And simultaneously release one without the bulge, similar to the Vertical, but with color screen, all that kind of jazz that will match the Fenix 3 in battery (50 hours). 

Heck, throw in a 3rd model that includes the beloved expresso maker and maybe even a swiss army knife-like feature where things could fold out from underneath the watch, haha.


----------



## Miszka

A3P with vibration alerts, 2mm slimmer, more memory, sharper B&W screen, bulge for accuracy, maybe tap-for-lap like in V800 and we are all done. No need to fight the lifestyle show-off Fenix 3, amirite?


----------



## rdm01

miszkafiszman said:


> A3P with vibration alerts, 2mm slimmer, more memory, sharper B&W screen, bulge for accuracy, maybe tap-for-lap like in V800 and we are all done. No need to fight the lifestyle show-off Fenix 3, amirite?


I'm agree with all. Also will be a plus if they add altitude profile (vertical) and navigation breadcrumbs (traverse). Please suunto do not try to make a Fenix 3!!!

deporteporvida.com


----------



## martowl

Glajda said:


> I really hope they install enough memory this time. I really don't want to worry about syncing if I'm away for a week.
> 
> And after all these years there is still no way to record your weight in Movescount. One would think that at least a part of Suunto's users would like to have this ability.


First, The Ambit3 Peak has a large memory buffer. At 60s GPS fix and 10s recording for Altitude and no HR 398h of data can be stored! That is 33 consecutive 12h days. If you need better GPS fixes, at Good you get 222h of recording with no HR or 18.5 days of 12h days. Seriously, I cannot understand why you need more than that! HR recording takes up a lot of log memory because of HRV recording. On long trips, HR is something I do not record. I have recorded 40h of continuos 1s GPS fix with HR and no data loss, which is the spec for the watch. I did that during a race. Honestly, not sure I would want to go a whole lot longer than that.

The second issue, recording weight in Movescount, just open up the website (on any device) and record your weight. Frankly, again, I don't see what is so hard about that? Alternatively, change the weight in the watch and it will sync back to the website and update. Why is this a problem to complain about.

There are certainly issues I would like to see corrected and changed but the ones you mention just don't seem a problem IMHO.


----------



## j--l

The thing I'd really like to see is slightly smaller mid row and bigger top and bottom rows - I mean font size in activity display (3 rows display). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JoggWithoutDog

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> ...
> Nice to still see you around; I think things will look differently this time: People are waiting for the next watch, eagerly, and the app for it is already out and being worked on more...


Hi Gerald,
maybe I am too old for the accelerated modern time gadgets 
Even today I'm often thinking about my Psion 5mx pro palmtop or better: Remembering its perfect agenda - much better than the one of Windows CE's and even than the calender of the Palm's and its derivates ... but it's over  ...today I try to accept the similar app on my iPhone ... of course with bright colors and a sharpness that's impressive ... but not as reliable as the Psion's 
Same is with the modern sport watches: That's my main reason I still wearing my t6-models from time to time. And maybe Suunto will remembering the good old days and will offer (in future) a second possibility of sportwatches ... but at the moment I am happy with the Polar V800 and(!) my fenix3. Good luck to you.
Joachim


----------



## Glajda

martowl said:


> First, The Ambit3 Peak has a large memory buffer. At 60s GPS fix and 10s recording for Altitude and no HR 398h of data can be stored! That is 33 consecutive 12h days. If you need better GPS fixes, at Good you get 222h of recording with no HR or 18.5 days of 12h days. Seriously, I cannot understand why you need more than that! HR recording takes up a lot of log memory because of HRV recording. On long trips, HR is something I do not record. I have recorded 40h of continuos 1s GPS fix with HR and no data loss, which is the spec for the watch. I did that during a race. Honestly, not sure I would want to go a whole lot longer than that.
> 
> The second issue, recording weight in Movescount, just open up the website (on any device) and record your weight. Frankly, again, I don't see what is so hard about that? Alternatively, change the weight in the watch and it will sync back to the website and update. Why is this a problem to complain about.
> 
> There are certainly issues I would like to see corrected and changed but the ones you mention just don't seem a problem IMHO.


Memory is cheap! Why do I have to bother with changing the recording rate or not recording HR? I want all the accuracy I can get. I'm still on Ambit 1 and it has less than 20h worth of recording space.

As for the second issue, sure, you can change your weight in Movescount or the watch, but it's only used for calculations and isn't actually recorded anywhere. So if I want to remember the weight on a particular day, I have to put a tag in it, but can't display any graphs or trends.


----------



## wydim

morey000 said:


> A sporadic HR belt- is most likely the problem of the belt, not the watch. Sometimes the belt (not the clip in electronics box) just needs to be replaced. they don't last long. < 1yr generally. (except those early hard plastic garmin belts. they're tanks). Or- a problem with static. you can use conductive gel (like Spectra 360) and/or spray your tech shirt with Static Guard before your runs. some things to try.


Maybe you could educate me on the subject of the HR belt.

I've had my HR belt for 2-3 years now, but I didn't use it for 18 months now because it didn't work properly. I estimate that it has "suffered" through about 80-120 tops hours of wear. The elastic and the plastic on the captors are in perfect condition. What do you say should last less than 1 year ?


----------



## zvojan

j--l said:


> The thing I'd really like to see is slightly smaller mid row and bigger top and bottom rows - I mean font size in activity display (3 rows display).
> 
> Yes. Top and bottom row are too small.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

"Memory is cheap" ... Well, not necessarily as cheap as you might think when you're talking dedicated controllers rather than run-of-the-mill HDDs, SD card chips, etc.

Also, the idea was that a person nowadays would bring their phone and thus be able to sync there. Much more memory on that. (But another pointer to how the specialist crowd may be underrated in the planning in favor of more mass-market appeal...)

Weight recording and the like: With the critics on that. Amer Sports wants to go full-swing digitalization, but seems to overlook that digital services are better connected between devices, platforms, makers. UnderArmour is doing well on that front (with its Record app which pulls data from anywhere and tries to also sell you on UA's devices - except I hadn't been able to find some of the data it pulls in, so bye-bye to that...)

(Little point of contention: As much as Suunto / Amer Sports has built up its digital services / apps team, imagine how they'd be doing if they didn't just have to work on making their own devices work with their own app. Let's get to stable BTLE connection and notifications first.)

HR belt: It seems to degrade over time anyways when it comes to how well it can read out HR, no matter what you do with it. If you use e.g. Firstbeat's Athlete software, that gives you an "error percentage" for the HR data, and one can see how a) the HR belt being wet enough (but not soaked) makes a difference during single exercises and b) it degrades over time. The sensor is good for years, but the elastic and pads should be replaced annually, at least.

And I just noticed I so missed a chance to drive insane traffic to my blog by announcing the first look at the Suunto Ambit 4.1. ... April 1


----------



## Glajda

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> "Memory is cheap" ... Well, not necessarily as cheap as you might think when you're talking dedicated controllers rather than run-of-the-mill HDDs, SD card chips, etc.
> 
> Also, the idea was that a person nowadays would bring their phone and thus be able to sync there. Much more memory on that. (But another pointer to how the specialist crowd may be underrated in the planning in favor of more mass-market appeal...)


Well, Tomtom Spark has 3GB of space and costs half of an Ambit3, so it can be done.
As far as syncing with a phone goes, Suunto doesn't work with Android very well. There's always some luck or voodoo involved. Plus sometimes you don't have cell coverage or have high roaming costs. And although it's supposed to work without cell coverage, usually it doesn't.


----------



## Miszka

It all looks like Suunto missed the wearble train. Polar too. They were uniquley positioned to grab billions of people by their wrists, could easily come up with fitbits etc. With selling by huge numbers comes the ability to push the prices of memory down, like Apple does, and probably Garmin. And it's shocking that Amer Sports, gigantic congolmerate missed that opportunity too, letting the others take the reins. So sad to see it, especially when one remembers Polar and to the larger extent Suunto as the premium innovator of our little wrist fetish.


----------



## margusl

martowl said:


> The second issue, recording weight in Movescount, just open up the website (on any device) and record your weight. Frankly, again, I don't see what is so hard about that? Alternatively, change the weight in the watch and it will sync back to the website and update. Why is this a problem to complain about.


Well, most of gadgets are marketed by solving problems we never knew we had 
But for me personally a watch and/or service with support for connected scales would be something I'd consider on my next purchase. 
And not because Garmin does it, mostly because not able to keep and track my health data in one place without too much manual interaction is kind of ... yesterday.


----------



## HIKESOLO

margusl said:


> martowl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The second issue, recording weight in Movescount, just open up the website (on any device) and record your weight. Frankly, again, I don't see what is so hard about that? Alternatively, change the weight in the watch and it will sync back to the website and update. Why is this a problem to complain about.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, most of gadgets are marketed by solving problems we never knew we had
> But for me personally a watch and/or service with support for connected scales would be something I'd consider on my next purchase.
> And not because Garmin does it, mostly because not able to keep and track my health data in one place without too much manual interaction is kind of ... yesterday.
Click to expand...

Get a sporttracks.mobi subscription. Automatically imports from Movescount and Garmin Connect as well as compatibility with Withings wifi scales. All the data you'd ever need.


----------



## newtonfb

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> "Memory is cheap" ... Well, not necessarily as cheap as you might think when you're talking dedicated controllers rather than run-of-the-mill HDDs, SD card chips, etc.
> ;


Memory is cheap now. The android Sony smart watch 3 has GPS and 8gb of space for $100. While a cool watch its not on the level of the A3 by any means. My point though is that memory is cheap.


----------



## martowl

Glajda said:


> Memory is cheap! Why do I have to bother with changing the recording rate or not recording HR? I want all the accuracy I can get. I'm still on Ambit 1 and it has less than 20h worth of recording space.
> 
> As for the second issue, sure, you can change your weight in Movescount or the watch, but it's only used for calculations and isn't actually recorded anywhere. So if I want to remember the weight on a particular day, I have to put a tag in it, but can't display any graphs or trends.


Actually, the weight is recorded in your profile on Movescount so your statement is incorrect. If what you mean is a graphical representation of weight over time Movescount does not provide that.


----------



## emac44

wydim said:


> Maybe you could educate me on the subject of the HR belt.
> 
> I've had my HR belt for 2-3 years now, but I didn't use it for 18 months now because it didn't work properly. I estimate that it has "suffered" through about 80-120 tops hours of wear. The elastic and the plastic on the captors are in perfect condition. What do you say should last less than 1 year ?


I have no idea why this is but I have found the same thing, 3 years now. I think maybe this belt is a lighter weight than the old Polar/Garmin belts and just loses its ability to conduct sooner

Usually it takes about 10-11 months or so if I wear it 4-5 times a week.

I am OK with that because 1 -- (again) it's just the belt, not the sensor, so $20-30, and 2 -- I came to the Peak after years of struggling with Garmin and THEIR lousy HR belt.

One new belt a year, I can live with


----------



## matej123

Well it is time for Suunto to show us something new and fast. Because their product are outdated.

We need watch that has memory for least 10 days, we are in 2016 not 2006 now. 
Battery must last 3 days in GPS mode.
Color screen, AMOLED or something, this is not obligatory, but you know we are in 2016 it is standard now.
Better and prettier design, bigger screen.
And application for android and ios that works without problems.

That are bare minimums for this days, and if Suunto cant do that he is out of the game in few years.


----------



## Glajda

martowl said:


> Actually, the weight is recorded in your profile on Movescount so your statement is incorrect. If what you mean is a graphical representation of weight over time Movescount does not provide that.


Exactly. It only stores the current weight and there is no way you can check what it was in the past.


----------



## margusl

EatPlayLift said:


> Get a sporttracks.mobi subscription. Automatically imports from Movescount and Garmin Connect as well as compatibility with Withings wifi scales. All the data you'd ever need.


I understand it was a response to "manual interaction" part, but it's not quite the point I tried to make - with all those connected gadgets one is not just buying hardware, rather a whole user experience and everything from support, 
frontend/backend features, completeness, usability, reliability and what not. If some hackery is made possible, cool - someone actually cares enough to invest some time and skills, it does not even matter much if it's for profit or something else.
Still builds stronger user community, but it matters for only a fraction of users. If there is proper data access for users and 3rd party tools and services (open API) - even better, a lot better.
And if a device (watch in this case) can play well with others (be it BTLE scale, external temperature sensor, ...) an web-service can adapt with extra data, I'd be quite thrilled - e.g keeping track of body water % over time and logging *real* temperature changes on those ski tours... nice  And no, it's not a place for someone to tell to strap my watch to my pack  
Besides, be careful with that "All the data you'd ever need" phrase among stat geeks, I actually had a really hard time past few hours *not* to spend those hours just to prove opposite. Umm.. wait.. B]

BTW, sporttracks is quite an interesting case as they are still not listed as supported 3rd party service by Suunto and last time I checked, they used app-key assigned for Moveslink2. I'd rather see Suunto / Movescount to take more Strava-like and open approach when it comes to accessing end user data.

Just a side note - I'm still happy with my Ambit1, as of today it has logged 923 hours of activities and I'm on my 1st HR POD / 2nd HR belt, in my case cleaning and slightly bending metal contacts on both POD and belt helps a lot if there are issues with picking up HR from clean and moist belt.


----------



## HIKESOLO

margusl said:


> EatPlayLift said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get a sporttracks.mobi subscription. Automatically imports from Movescount and Garmin Connect as well as compatibility with Withings wifi scales. All the data you'd ever need.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand it was a response to "manual interaction" part, but it's not quite the point I tried to make - with all those connected gadgets one is not just buying hardware, rather a whole user experience and everything from support,
> frontend/backend features, completeness, usability, reliability and what not. If some hackery is made possible, cool - someone actually cares enough to invest some time and skills, it does not even matter much if it's for profit or something else.
> Still builds stronger user community, but it matters for only a fraction of users. If there is proper data access for users and 3rd party tools and services (open API) - even better, a lot better.
> And if a device (watch in this case) can play well with others (be it BTLE scale, external temperature sensor, ...) an web-service can adapt with extra data, I'd be quite thrilled - e.g keeping track of body water % over time and logging *real* temperature changes on those ski tours... nice  And no, it's not a place for someone to tell to strap my watch to my pack
> Besides, be careful with that "All the data you'd ever need" phrase among stat geeks, I actually had a really hard time past few hours *not* to spend those hours just to prove opposite. Umm.. wait.. B]
> 
> BTW, sporttracks is quite an interesting case as they are still not listed as supported 3rd party service by Suunto and last time I checked, they used app-key assigned for Moveslink2. I'd rather see Suunto / Movescount to take more Strava-like and open approach when it comes to accessing end user data.
> 
> Just a side note - I'm still happy with my Ambit1, as of today it has logged 923 hours of activities and I'm on my 1st HR POD / 2nd HR belt, in my case cleaning and slightly bending metal contacts on both POD and belt helps a lot if there are issues with picking up HR from clean and moist belt.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with your original point. I'd like to see Suunto really expand their offering. I was just providing a solution in case you didn't know about it. It's something I am currently doing because like you I wish it could all be found in one place. Cheers.


----------



## martowl

matej123 said:


> Well it is time for Suunto to show us something new and fast. Because their product are outdated.
> 
> We need watch that has memory for least 10 days, we are in 2016 not 2006 now.
> Battery must last 3 days in GPS mode.
> Color screen, AMOLED or something, this is not obligatory, but you know we are in 2016 it is standard now.
> Better and prettier design, bigger screen.
> And application for android and ios that works without problems.
> 
> That are bare minimums for this days, and if Suunto cant do that he is out of the game in few years.


Apple, who has much more in the way of resources than Suunto cannot do what you want.....Their watch that interacts well with the iPhone has about a 30h battery life according to DCRainmaker. The Ambit3 Peak has a memory that will last for 33 12h days as I stated before, far more than 10d. The memory hog is HRV and quite frankly recording HR for long events isn't really all that useful from a training point of view. The battery with a 5 sec GPS fix goes 30h, I think it will be hard to do much more with the battery life as battery technology has not advanced to the point you desire. With a 60s GPS fix the battery will last 200h, far more than the 3d you request in GPS mode. Why a color screen? I want higher resolution, I don't really care about color. Have you even read any of the specs or know anything about the watch? Have you used iOS, because mine works perfectly. I admit, sounds like Android is an issue.

Anyway Suunto has typically made devices for athletes, that has been their target NOT the fitbit crowd. Anyone who wants to measure their daily steps is typically not the market Suunto has aimed at. Whether that is a good idea or not is certainly debatable but I have used a lot of Suunto and Garmin devices as well as some others. Suunto has devices that work and are typically very good for athletes, especially those that train and participate in events. When I look back at my T6 and remember how revolutionary that watch was, I marvel at the technology in the Ambit series and the fenix. Amazing that all that is on my wrist and I can wear it and it works.

So far with the myriad of Suunto devices I have owned I have logged 3219h for 12,975 miles and 2,262,112 feet of ascent where 1855h, 6757 miles and 1,155,296 feet ascent have been on Ambit models. I have NEVER lost a single move using an Ambit. I would say that is damn good. I'll be back for a new Suunto and I don't think they will be out of the game in a few years. Just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## HIKESOLO

martowl said:


> matej123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well it is time for Suunto to show us something new and fast. Because their product are outdated.
> 
> We need watch that has memory for least 10 days, we are in 2016 not 2006 now.
> Battery must last 3 days in GPS mode.
> Color screen, AMOLED or something, this is not obligatory, but you know we are in 2016 it is standard now.
> Better and prettier design, bigger screen.
> And application for android and ios that works without problems.
> 
> That are bare minimums for this days, and if Suunto cant do that he is out of the game in few years.
> 
> 
> 
> Apple, who has much more in the way of resources than Suunto cannot do what you want.....Their watch that interacts well with the iPhone has about a 30h battery life according to DCRainmaker. The Ambit3 Peak has a memory that will last for 33 12h days as I stated before, far more than 10d. The memory hog is HRV and quite frankly recording HR for long events isn't really all that useful from a training point of view. The battery with a 5 sec GPS fix goes 30h, I think it will be hard to do much more with the battery life as battery technology has not advanced to the point you desire. With a 60s GPS fix the battery will last 200h, far more than the 3d you request in GPS mode. Why a color screen? I want higher resolution, I don't really care about color. Have you even read any of the specs or know anything about the watch? Have you used iOS, because mine works perfectly. I admit, sounds like Android is an issue.
> 
> Anyway Suunto has typically made devices for athletes, that has been their target NOT the fitbit crowd. Anyone who wants to measure their daily steps is typically not the market Suunto has aimed at. Whether that is a good idea or not is certainly debatable but I have used a lot of Suunto and Garmin devices as well as some others. Suunto has devices that work and are typically very good for athletes, especially those that train and participate in events. When I look back at my T6 and remember how revolutionary that watch was, I marvel at the technology in the Ambit series and the fenix. Amazing that all that is on my wrist and I can wear it and it works.
> 
> So far with the myriad of Suunto devices I have owned I have logged 3219h for 12,975 miles and 2,262,112 feet of ascent where 1855h, 6757 miles and 1,155,296 feet ascent have been on Ambit models. I have NEVER lost a single move using an Ambit. I would say that is damn good. I'll be back for a new Suunto and I don't think they will be out of the game in a few years. Just my 2 cents worth.
Click to expand...

I agree for the most part. But I don't think wanting to see a weight graph in Movescount means you are just part of the Fitbit crowd though. I don't even think wanting step tracking makes you solely just part of the fitbit crowd. I don't think they need to incorporate as many features as Garmin but it would be nice to add a couple tweaks. Weight tracking (which someone in training may be interested in) is not a groundbreaking feature so I think it would be simple to add. Take TrainingPeaks for example, you can track your weight and even import nutritional data from MyFitnessPal and TrainingPeaks is certainly aimed at the serious athlete. I love Suunto as much as anyone, but that doesn't mean they have it 100% right.


----------



## wydim

EatPlayLift said:


> I agree for the most part. But I don't think wanting to see a weight graph in Movescount means you are just part of the Fitbit crowd though. I don't even think wanting step tracking makes you solely just part of the fitbit crowd. I don't think they need to incorporate as many features as Garmin but it would be nice to add a couple tweaks. Weight tracking (which someone in training may be interested in) is not a groundbreaking feature so I think it would be simple to add. Take TrainingPeaks for example, you can track your weight and even import nutritional data from MyFitnessPal and TrainingPeaks is certainly aimed at the serious athlete. I love Suunto as much as anyone, but that doesn't mean they have it 100% right.


IMO, Step and weight tracking is part of the fitbit crowd. Serious athletes or "normal people who train seriously" do not care about steps. I'm not saying it's hard to implement but they have to draw the line somewhere and, apparently, it's here for Suunto.

Training peaks is purely a software company, not Suunto.


----------



## HIKESOLO

wydim said:


> IMO, Step and weight tracking is part of the fitbit crowd. Serious athletes or "normal people who train seriously" do not care about steps. I'm not saying it's hard to implement but they have to draw the line somewhere and, apparently, it's here for Suunto.
> 
> Training peaks is purely a software company, not Suunto.


My point regarding training peaks was that it obviously means at least some serious athletes are interested in that information. Not step tracking but nutrition and weight tracking. Why would a serious athlete not be interested in a caloric intake? If you are fueling for training you'd want to know what's going in and out. Regarding weight tracking it is 100% tied into calorie burn and getting those stats accurate. Your heart rate information tied to an incorrect weight is useless in providing accurate caloric burn. Obviously Suunto lets you update your weight but I seriously don't see the issue in letting us see that trend in Movescount.

I'm not so sure that Suunto is drawing that line. They already provide step tracking in the Traverse and Kailash and have hinted that the steps are not YET viewable in Movescount. I can pretty much guarantee step tracking will be a feature in their upcoming watches.

Now that I think about it, name one other major GPS watch company that does not allow you to track weight and other things like that. Garmin does. Polar does. I believe Tom Tom does. Just about every phone app that lets you track your training does. I'm also not convinced Suunto is only for serious athletes. They very much market themselves for the adventure crowd. I could sit on my butt all week long then go hiking in the mountains and really enjoy using their product. In fact, I'd say the Traverse is directly marketed at that crowd. A casual hiker doesn't care at all about power meters, HR training, etc...but they might care about step tracking. I bet users of the Quest might care about step/weight tracking. We all don't fit into one group and I don't think Suunto wants to cater to only one type of person.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Vocally as I've been on the Vertical not needing step tracking (Hey, I think I even made it into DC's review that way, if only as "some people"  ), I very much think that importing the data from a weight/body fat scale and giving a step count or other measure of daily activity would be great.

(My Kailash - review forthcoming... at the latest in summer  - thinks I've been taking 12827 avg. daily steps, and I'm *not* wearing that when I go out for a training session...)

I'm seeing some inklings of a new (version of a) device being readied. A new device which is still not the one everyone's waiting for here...


----------



## martowl

EatPlayLift said:


> I agree for the most part. But I don't think wanting to see a weight graph in Movescount means you are just part of the Fitbit crowd though. I don't even think wanting step tracking makes you solely just part of the fitbit crowd. I don't think they need to incorporate as many features as Garmin but it would be nice to add a couple tweaks. Weight tracking (which someone in training may be interested in) is not a groundbreaking feature so I think it would be simple to add. Take TrainingPeaks for example, you can track your weight and even import nutritional data from MyFitnessPal and TrainingPeaks is certainly aimed at the serious athlete. I love Suunto as much as anyone, but that doesn't mean they have it 100% right.


In my statement, I argued that Suunto has made devices that WERE for the athlete and not fitbit crowd, I also said that it could be debated as to whether or not that was worthwhile. Since I am a biological research scientist I am accustomed to making statements that do not necessarily reflect my opinion and I think you read more into the statement than intended. So here is my opinion......I think Suunto has partially blown it as cornering the fitness market in any way possible is going to gain market share. I also think that they should incorporate, steps, elevation, weight and sleep into their metrics. I also think that they could add nutrition. All athletes at some level (current athletes) have concerns regarding one or more of these issues. So....I am in your camp and I think Suunto could make a few devices that satisfied everyone. For example, develop Traverse software (Kailash too) that tracked steps, elevation gain/loss w/o GPS, sleep and nutrition. The vertical would have more or less what it has and then a grandaddy model that does it all. It is really too bad because I think this is where the devices are headed. If Apple makes a good exercise watch with GPS in it that has decent battery life, I will probably depart the Suunto camp. Anyway that is my opinion as opposed to the statements I made regarding my perceptions earlier.


----------



## paul1928

miszkafiszman said:


> I totally agree with separating the lines. Ideally would be having "rugged lifestyle" watch like Fenix 3, and lighter/uglier tri-workhorse like 920 XT.


My impression is that Suunto aren't really focusing on the Tri market? A pity really - the swimming mode introduced by the Ambit2 was pretty cutting edge.


----------



## paul1928

wydim said:


> Maybe you could educate me on the subject of the HR belt.
> 
> I've had my HR belt for 2-3 years now, but I didn't use it for 18 months now because it didn't work properly. I estimate that it has "suffered" through about 80-120 tops hours of wear. The elastic and the plastic on the captors are in perfect condition. What do you say should last less than 1 year ?


If you're keeping it clean (I rinse mine in the shower after each use), it's not falling off your chest (due to worn out elastic) and seems to be giving reasonable HR figures (ie, not 197bpm when you think you're doing 130bpm), then it's fine.

The newer Movesense belts that come with the Ambit3 seem to last a lot longer than the older Comfort Belt that came with the Ambit2. Personally I'm still cycling through two Garmin HRM3 belts (with a Stryd - not a Movesense pod) that I bought because I was sick of replacing dead Comfort Belts with my Ambit2.


----------



## Jeff_C

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Well, expect to be surprised about the leap.
> 
> Just if someone wants to know where I'm coming from:
> I've been using Suunto devices for something like 20 years now, been in touch with the company for almost as long... and perhaps the greatest trouble they got into during all that time was when the Ambit1 couldn't be updated as they wanted to update the line, and the Ambit2 was introduced. Oh, was that an outcry.
> (And some of the "promises" they didn't fulfill weren't even due to a miscommunication from Suunto, it was - at least the way I got to experience it - the doings of a very popular gear reviewer throwing a wrench into their PR plans...)
> So now, to be hearing that "Suunto is overdue" because they haven't released a new Ambit generation a year after the last new device, while all the interactions between devices and apps can still be improved (and are in the process of being improved), and while the older devices still fulfill their function very well... Well, I don't know.
> 
> I'm a bit of a Luddite that way. And an early-adopter geek, coz... guess who must be getting on his contacts' nerves because he's ardently hoping for a chance to test whatever comes next, asap...


Don't forget the fun with the first run of Cores.


----------



## Miszka

paul1928 said:


> My impression is that Suunto appear to have given up on trying to get into the Tri market?


What about the "Sport" line of Ambit? Isn't it the Suunto tri watch? When I speak about the tri-watch crowd I really mean multi-sport watch, for people who are mostly runners, who incorporate bike rides and swim laps in their training, and when they ski they want to have it recorded too.


----------



## rdm01

Jeff_C said:


> Don't forget the fun with the first run of Cores.


I was an user with lot of fun with the first run of Cores. My core was sent two times to Finland due buttons failures and they never replaced my faulty unit. So I stopped buying Suunto's for years. I came back to Suunto (ambit2) due Fenix 2

deporteporvida.com


----------



## paul1928

miszkafiszman said:


> What about the "Sport" line of Ambit? Isn't it the Suunto tri watch? When I speak about the tri-watch crowd I really mean multi-sport watch, for people who are mostly runners, who incorporate bike rides and swim laps in their training, and when they ski they want to have it recorded too.


Agreed re: the Sport. I was thinking about their marketing these last few years and their current line up of big name ambassadors. Not much tri in there.

The tri community (here in Australia at least) all seem to be Garmin users with a little Polar in the mix.


----------



## Quotron

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> It's a funny (or aggravating) thing there to just look at expectations, customers, "value" in the marketplace.
> 
> On the one hand, you have that "Suunto is years behind" which is basically due to their not having a color screen and maybe a design that is less everyday-worthy in its looks.
> 
> On the other hand, now that the Ambit's unsexy "nose" is starting to disappear, you get the complaints about poorer GPS reception. Next up, if a color screen comes, it will be all "why is the battery life not as good as before?!"
> 
> It's a situation where it's a "damned whatever you do" - unless they separate the lines further still...


In some cases, it may be preferable to have a company ignore a majority of the requests customers make....lest we end up with the single shot coffee maker on the Ambit7



matej123 said:


> Well it is time for Suunto to show us something new and fast. Because their product are outdated.
> 
> We need watch that has memory for least 10 days, we are in 2016 not 2006 now.
> Battery must last 3 days in GPS mode.
> Color screen, AMOLED or something, this is not obligatory, but you know we are in 2016 it is standard now.
> Better and prettier design, bigger screen.
> And application for android and ios that works without problems.
> 
> That are bare minimums for this days, and if Suunto cant do that he is out of the game in few years.


LOL. You can't be out of a game that doesn't exist.



paul1928 said:


> My impression is that Suunto appear to have given up on trying to get into the Tri market?


I think Suunto is aiming at trails (running, MTB[?], skimo, et.al.) primarily and to a lesser extent roads. At least that is my impression from seeing all of the trail running pros on Strava receive shiny new Ambits, so there is presumably _some_ heuristic bias...


----------



## Miszka

Quotron said:


> I think Suunto is aiming at trails (running, MTB[?], skimo, et.al.) primarily and to a lesser extent roads. At least that is my impression from seeing all of the trail running pros on Strava receive shiny new Ambits, so there is presumably _some_ heuristic bias...


Let's not forget that Ambit was a pioneer in recording HR while swimming. Maybe they evolved (devolved?) beyond that.


----------



## Krispy Run

miszkafiszman said:


> A3P with vibration alerts, 2mm slimmer, more memory, sharper B&W screen, bulge for accuracy, maybe tap-for-lap like in V800 and we are all done. No need to fight the lifestyle show-off Fenix 3, amirite?


For me, and it seems many on this forum, I don't care about the lifestyle features of the Fenix 3. I had an F3 and essentially turned off or didn't use quite a few features (texting, fitness tracking, etc.). I sold it due to accuracy issues. However, I wonder if Suunto might be well served making an F3 competitor. I see fewer Suunto's on the arms of athletes at trail races, in the wilderness areas and national park near me, and more F3's and XTs on the arms of the climbers, skimo fans, trail runners, and the like.

If Suunto made what is essentially an F3 direct competitor and it had Suunto quality and accuracy, would it fit your needs? Keep in mind you can always not use features you don't care about and their semi-open API has led to many additional customizations in regards to data field customization, mapping, etc.


----------



## martowl

Krispy Run said:


> I see fewer Suunto's on the arms of athletes at trail races, in the wilderness areas and national park near me, and more F3's and XTs on the arms of the climbers, skimo fans, trail runners, and the like.


The opposite here in Boulder, CO. Most of the hardcore skimo, trail runners and climbers have Suunto. Most of the triathletes and bikers have Garmins. I think this is predominately due to the focus on elevation.


----------



## rdm01

martowl said:


> The opposite here in Boulder, CO. Most of the hardcore skimo, trail runners and climbers have Suunto. Most of the triathletes and bikers have Garmins. I think this is predominately due to the focus on elevation.


The same here. 80% of trail runners and 90% of ultra trail runners wearing GPS watches are Suunto's. Suunto/Salomon are spending lots of money sponsoring ultra runners and mountain races.

Being user of both A3 and F3 I'm still thinking A3 rocks. Current F3 isn't a bad device but IMHO if you used A2/A3 before you're not admitting worse GPS accuracy in challenging areas.

To be honest I'm not admitting worse GPS accuracy in the future A4. It happened to me with A3V. I bought it and GPS was a little bit worse than A3P/S/R in challenging areas but better than F3. I returned it. Hope the F4 do better or it'll be returned too ;-)

deporteporvida.com


----------



## newtonfb

Probably nothing but Im trying everything I can to find information lol.

What watch is he wearing in this picture? It looks like a Fenix 3 but I know hes a Suunto guy. He talked about how Suunto had something big coming and he was excited.

https://www.facebook.com/GriniusGed...819207866033/1244165635598050/?type=3&theater


----------



## Miszka

Krispy Run said:


> If Suunto made what is essentially an F3 direct competitor and it had Suunto quality and accuracy, would it fit your needs? Keep in mind you can always not use features you don't care about and their semi-open API has led to many additional customizations in regards to data field customization, mapping, etc.


The Suunto Fenix? This is the exact watch I'm postponing switching to F3 for. The Suunto Fenix is the Graal of my dreams. Will they deliver? I always romanticized Suunto as a rogue comapny, ten times smaller than Garmin, but still on the edge on innovation. I wanted to support their rough, Scandinavian focus on precision and detail. But too often I don't find it true anymore; a) they are part of gigantic Amer Sports, no excuse skimping on R&D, b) the Kaliash-Vertical-Traverse fiasco. To an untrained the b) looks like pondering to the trail-lifestyle crowd offering no real innovation, sacrificing precision for cuff-ready lifestyle, parading bulge-free apperance. I don't care about their shade of silicon blue, I want the sexy ol' Suunto, all black, all dedication. The last "rogue" company of the crowd seems to be Polar, but they seem to be in much bigger trouble than Suunto - where is V900? Why it takes six months for Strava implementation and more than year for open swim integration? Polar looks like it's going down, sadly. But I digress. Of course I'm in the line for Fenix direct competitor


----------



## paul1928

rdm01 said:


> The same here. 80% of trail runners and 90% of ultra trail runners wearing GPS watches are Suunto's. Suunto/Salomon are spending lots of money sponsoring ultra runners and mountain races.


Very similar over here in Australia too. The Ambit is the default ultra trail runner watch - even if the user only knows how to use one quarter of its features!



> Being user of both A3 and F3 I'm still thinking A3 rocks. Current F3 isn't a bad device but IMHO if you used A2/A3 before you're not admitting worse GPS accuracy in challenging areas.
> 
> To be honest I'm not admitting worse GPS accuracy in the future A4. It happened to me with A3V. I bought it and GPS was a little bit worse than A3P/S/R in challenging areas but better than F3. I returned it. Hope the F4 do better or it'll be returned too ;-)


My guess is the Vertical is a public beta test of the Ambit4's new bezel antenna. There'll be software tweaks to come, perhaps some very minor design changes before the A4's release, but I think the A4 will still fall just behind the A3's ceramic patch antenna if the A3V is the antenna it uses. The A3V running v1.0.0 definitely falls behind the A3P - both in accuracy and, presumably as a result, recording internal. I've been too spoilt by my Peak - couldn't accept the Vertical's accuracy and sold it second hand.


----------



## bruceames

Glajda said:


> Memory is cheap! Why do I have to bother with changing the recording rate or not recording HR? I want all the accuracy I can get. I'm still on Ambit 1 and it has less than 20h worth of recording space.


Battery life is the limiting factor, not the memory. The Ambit 3 will record around 50 hours with HR @ 1s GPS fix. But you'll need to recharge a couple of times to use that memory up. Anything longer than 50 hours I'd be using a handheld GPS which is more accurate anyway.


----------



## bruceames

rdm01 said:


> The same here. 80% of trail runners and 90% of ultra trail runners wearing GPS watches are Suunto's. Suunto/Salomon are spending lots of money sponsoring ultra runners and mountain races.
> 
> Being user of both A3 and F3 I'm still thinking A3 rocks. Current F3 isn't a bad device but IMHO if you used A2/A3 before you're not admitting worse GPS accuracy in challenging areas.
> 
> To be honest I'm not admitting worse GPS accuracy in the future A4. It happened to me with A3V. I bought it and GPS was a little bit worse than A3P/S/R in challenging areas but better than F3. I returned it. Hope the F4 do better or it'll be returned too ;-)
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Hoping that the A4 will be just as accurate, preferably even more so. If Suunto is really targeting the TR and ultra crowd, then they will prioritize GPS accuracy and battery life over aesthetics and watch size. Getting caught up with Garmin to have the coolest looking watch at the expense of performance is is not like Suunto at all. Suunto originally had the nicest looking sports watches, Garmin copied them at the expense of accuracy, and now Suunto is responding with less accurate watches with lower battery life. Hopefully they'll come out with at least one A4 that is a performance upgrade like we would normally expect.


----------



## esmarquette

Okay Suunto, I'm tired of waiting. Decided to unsubscribe this thread, stick with my Ambit 2, and console myself by buying the Speedmaster I've been after for ages....

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


----------



## paulteini

I am eager to see what Suunto does next for the Ambit. I see a lot of wish lists here, but I don't expect to see a quantum leap in specs. It seems like Suunto has moved to the new Traverse/A3V styling without an antenna bump for their new products. I expect the A4 to follow with the battery life and software of the A3, the vertical data of the A3V, some added smartphone connectivity, and a sapphire option (maybe ceramic choices as well). I don't see any signs that they will add optical heart rate, but that could be their big step from current products. I am trying to keep my expectations in check since past Ambit model upgrades have been incremental.

Does anyone know the inner workings of Suunto? Specifically I wonder about the Ambit team. Do they have a specific focus on the triathlete or ultra running community? Are they trying to become a smart watch? I hope they stay focused on the ultra running scene. If they do I imagine their ideas will be better than mine and their next offering will not disappoint.


----------



## Miszka

paulteini said:


> Does anyone know the inner workings of Suunto? Specifically I wonder about the Ambit team. Do they have a specific focus on the triathlete or ultra running community? Are they trying to become a smart watch? I hope they stay focused on the ultra running scene. If they do I imagine their ideas will be better than mine and their next offering will not disappoint.


Ambit is by definition "multi-sport", not trail specific. But in practice they sponsor top ultra runners but leave the tri champs to Garmin and Polar. It appears they might want get back into the tri crowd this June, sponsoring biggest UK tri event for the first time. Most probably to hype the Ambti 4. On another note, the number of ultra participants is on the rise, but what's really booming is female participation in those events. Expect smaller, lighter and rose gold A4.


----------



## Magan

miszkafiszman said:


> Ambit is by definition "multi-sport", not trail specific. But in practice they sponsor top ultra runners but leave the tri champs to Garmin and Polar. It appears they might want get back into the tri crowd this June, sponsoring biggest UK tri event for the first time. Most probably to hype the Ambti 4. On another note, the number of ultra participants is on the rise, but what's really booming is female participation in those events. Expect smaller, lighter and rose gold A4.


Do agree with you. We might see more and more segmentation of the market to target specific categories. Anyway, Garmin has put the level quite high in triathlon with the 920xt bundle, so with the competition between Garmin/Suunto/Polar we might expect some stunning products in the coming months.


----------



## Joakim Agren

My local Suunto retailer just said a new generation Ambit might be coming this September. I do not know what her source was but considering it is a licence'd retailer perhaps we should trust that information..?


----------



## rdm01

Joakim Agren said:


> My local Suunto retailer just said a new generation Ambit might be coming this September. I do not know what her source was but considering it is a licence'd retailer perhaps we should trust that information..?


My bet is September too ;-)

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Simon Francois

Joakim Agren said:


> My local Suunto retailer just said a new generation Ambit might be coming this September. I do not know what her source was but considering it is a licence'd retailer perhaps we should trust that information..?


I got a similar info today in Germany. The guy told me a new ambit serie would come in August. It would be a direct competitor to the Fenix3 HR, incorporating an optical sensor. He was not very positive about the ambit 3 vertical GPS accuracy and recommended to wait for the end of the summer. No idea if there is any accuracy in the info.


----------



## rdm01

Simon Francois said:


> I got a similar info today in Germany. The guy told me a new ambit serie would come in August. It would be a direct competitor to the Fenix3 HR, incorporating an optical sensor. He was not very positive about the ambit 3 vertical GPS accuracy and recommended to wait for the end of the summer. No idea if there is any accuracy in the info.


Definitely A3V and Traverse accuracy are a step back in GPS accuracy. At least in the units I'm testing :-(

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Garda

Simon Francois said:


> I got a similar info today in Germany. The guy told me a new ambit serie would come in August. It would be a direct competitor to the Fenix3 HR, incorporating an optical sensor. He was not very positive about the ambit 3 vertical GPS accuracy and recommended to wait for the end of the summer. No idea if there is any accuracy in the info.


Interesting, hmmm. If this is true, wondering whose optical sensor are they using (Mio's, Valencelle's) ? Or could it be inhouse developed, like Garmin's Elevate sensor ?
By that time Garmin will probably come out with Fenix 4 and has inproved it's Elevate sensor even further.


----------



## Joakim Agren

Garda said:


> Interesting, hmmm. If this is true, wondering whose optical sensor are they using (Mio's, Valencelle's) ? Or could it be inhouse developed, like Garmin's Elevate sensor ?
> By that time Garmin will probably come out with Fenix 4 and has inproved it's Elevate sensor even further.


A few years ago I presented news that Suunto had filed a patent for a pair of headphones with built in optical HRM. I think that would be a superior way of getting better accuracy when using the optical method. So I wonder if or when Suunto will make use of that patent?:rodekaart:think:


----------



## Teriemer

Joakim Agren said:


> A few years ago I presented news that Suunto had filed a patent for a pair of headphones with built in optical HRM. I think that would be a superior way of getting better accuracy when using the optical method. So I wonder if or when Suunto will make use of that patent?:rodekaart:think:


Also not so long ago, some other Suunto "jewelry-like-stuff" was presented. As I recall it was earrings, rings etc. But it was mentioned in relation to get HR data from it. Could it be that the time has come to see new HR options.

Can't wait to fall


----------



## chuwi

From yesterday Ambit 3 Peak Nepal is unavailable and Ambit 3 Peak dropped the price 100€. Suunto is trying to shell all the "old chickens" before the new toy is released


----------



## Miszka

chuwi said:


> From yesterday Ambit 3 Peak Nepal is unavailable and Ambit 3 Peak dropped the price 100€. Suunto is trying to shell all the "old chickens" before the new toy is released


Yeah, you're right, but woudn't it be too early to drasticly slash prices of your premium products 4-5 months before the release of the newbie? Although Suunto proved to be unorthodox with their relaeses, so what would I know. I do hope that they release "Ambit 4" in two months tops, and maybe "Ambit 4 HR" in the fall, Garmin style.


----------



## Rem_

someone in a (french) forum posted that there will have announcement late may for pre-order early june. ambit line-up is gone for a (complete) new , high end price up to 800E...
well, just one more rumor , but remember Gediminas "innovation waves are coming, soon".


----------



## rdm01

Rem_ said:


> someone in a (french) forum posted that there will have announcement late may for pre-order early june. ambit line-up is gone for a (complete) new , high end price up to 800E...
> well, just one more rumor , but remember Gediminas "innovation waves are coming, soon".


800 € Sorry but too much :-(

deporteporvida.com


----------



## mike_right

rdm01 said:


> 800 € Sorry but too much :-(
> 
> deporteporvida.com


Wait! Maybe it includes espresso for that prize ;-)


----------



## rdm01

mike_right said:


> Wait! Maybe it includes espresso for that prize ;-)


The good thing is ambit3 peak will be under 300 € :-D

deporteporvida.com


----------



## BillyX

Joakim Agren said:


> A few years ago I presented news that Suunto had filed a patent for a pair of headphones with built in optical HRM. I think that would be a superior way of getting better accuracy when using the optical method. So I wonder if or when Suunto will make use of that patent?:rodekaart:think:


I don't understand why everyone wants an optical HR sensor. The belt works very good. Optical HR sensors are much worse than the belt. I have the dash with optical HR sensor and the result is more guessing than measurement. Additionally I will not use an ear peace just to measure the HR.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

BillyX said:


> I don't understand why everyone wants an optical HR sensor. The belt works very good. Optical HR sensors are much worse than the belt. I have the dash with optical HR sensor and the result is more guessing than measurement. Additionally I will not use an ear peace just to measure the HR.


Novelty + convenience, I'd guess. (Except for those people with such a build that the HR belt is really uncomfortable, slips)

I do wonder what the overlap is (if any, unfortunate) between people who clamor for optical HR and people who complained that the Ambits didn't come with an extension strap for wearing them over a jacket *devil*


----------



## chuwi

rdm01 said:


> 800 € Sorry but too much :-(
> 
> deporteporvida.com


It runs UTMB for you!!!


----------



## Pirk

BillyX said:


> I don't understand why everyone wants an optical HR sensor. The belt works very good. Optical HR sensors are much worse than the belt. I have the dash with optical HR sensor and the result is more guessing than measurement. Additionally I will not use an ear peace just to measure the HR.


I think most people are less interested in accuracy than us on this site.  I can think of several reasons why it is more convenient with a optical sensor:
- You have to remember where you left you HR belt to use it. Common problem with my wife 
- Connection problems with the HR belt. 
- Accuracy issues based on not good enough contact with the skin
- Flat battery! No battery indicator. 
- Not comfortable. Especially with sleep test. Suunto is the best is the size area, but still it is better not to wear one.
- 24/7 tracking for more accurate calories consumption.

All above makes optical HR sensor very attractive for the common exerciser.


----------



## Miszka

Rem_ said:


> someone in a (french) forum posted that there will have announcement late may for pre-order early june. ambit line-up is gone for a (complete) new , high end price up to 800E....


The price and release date sounds very credible, as much of the Suunto R&D is conducted in French (via Amer Sports). So they might introduce "Ambit as Kaliash" first, and than, 6-12 months later, introduce lower priced "S" and "R" lines. Let's wave goddbye to the competitively priced competitor to Fenix 3. They basically lost the battle for the wide adventurers market to Garmin. Sorry to see that. Miss the old Suunto.


----------



## Garda

Pirk said:


> I think most people are less interested in accuracy than us on this site.  I can think of several reasons why it is more convenient with a optical sensor:
> - You have to remember where you left you HR belt to use it. Common problem with my wife
> - Connection problems with the HR belt.
> - Accuracy issues based on not good enough contact with the skin
> - Flat battery! No battery indicator.
> - Not comfortable. Especially with sleep test. Suunto is the best is the size area, but still it is better not to wear one.
> - 24/7 tracking for more accurate calories consumption.
> 
> All above makes optical HR sensor very attractive for the common exerciser.


For me personally main reason are: 
- connection problems 
- belt will slip down (problem if you have Y shaped body)
- not comfortable (because I have to wear it really tight for it not to slip down).

I have worn heart rate belts since 1998. Have had multiple Polar watches, Suunto Ambit 1 and now Ambit 2 Sapphire. Next watch will probably be with optical heart rate sensor. Sure I like accurate heart rate readings, but I am not getting them either with Suunto´s comfort belt. It will probably take optical 3-4 years when we will have the same accuracy level of heart rate belts. It has just been 1-2 years where you can see that most Android, Apple, Fitbit and other smartwatches are incorporating optical sensors. So I think that the trend is moving to that direction. And certainly there are always going to be options with belts who prefer them.


----------



## SavageSS

Garda said:


> For me personally main reason are:
> - connection problems
> - belt will slip down (problem if you have Y shaped body)
> - not comfortable (because I have to wear it really tight for it not to slip down).
> 
> I have worn heart rate belts since 1998. Have had multiple Polar watches, Suunto Ambit 1 and now Ambit 2 Sapphire. Next watch will probably be with optical heart rate sensor. Sure I like accurate heart rate readings, but I am not getting them either with Suunto´s comfort belt. It will probably take optical 3-4 years when we will have the same accuracy level of heart rate belts. It has just been 1-2 years where you can see that most Android, Apple, Fitbit and other smartwatches are incorporating optical sensors. So I think that the trend is moving to that direction. And certainly there are always going to be options with belts who prefer them.


I've gone from Ambit to Fenix 3 but always looking to see how the Ambit range is progressing.
I much prefer Moves Count site, and transfer my Garmin activities over to it.

In regards to the Heart Rate strap, I've never had issues with drop outs, never found it uncomfortable, sometimes leaving it on the whole day after a workout / run ! doh...

But one thing the Optical Heart Rate monitoring misses out on is the extra data that can be obtained from the Strap

With the Garmin Fenix 3 the extra info I get:
Run Cadence; Vertical Oscillation; Vertical Ratio; Ground Contact Time, Ground Contact Balance
Something an Optical HRM cannot provide.


----------



## JonnoBird

I came to Suunto from Garmin. I appreciate Suunto's build quality, and Movescount works, unlike Garmin Connect (on Mac) which has been flakey for both wife and me. I've probably gone thru 5 Garmin 305s, an oldie but goodie, although the last one came unglued so I was privy to the inside build...which looked like something from 1995. I'm sure they have improved, but I appreciate the solid Suunto build and obvious thought that was put into the A3.


----------



## martowl

SavageSS said:


> I've gone from Ambit to Fenix 3 but always looking to see how the Ambit range is progressing.
> 
> With the Garmin Fenix 3 the extra info I get:
> Run Cadence; Vertical Oscillation; Vertical Ratio; Ground Contact Time, Ground Contact Balance
> Something an Optical HRM cannot provide.


I know it is not available on Movescount but a Stryd Powermeter will show most of these parameters while using the Ambit. They are recorded on the Stryd site.


----------



## j_winston

miszkafiszman said:


> The price and release date sounds very credible, as much of the Suunto R&D is conducted in French (via Amer Sports).


Date&price may well be credible, but Suunto has no R&D in France, all in Finland.


----------



## morey000

SavageSS said:


> ...
> 
> With the Garmin Fenix 3 the extra info I get:
> _Run Cadence;_ *Vertical Oscillation; Vertical Ratio; Ground Contact Time, Ground Contact Balance*
> Something an Optical HRM cannot provide.


What do you do with that information? how is it helpful/useful to you?


----------



## pjc3

morey000 said:


> What do you do with that information? how is it helpful/useful to you?


Exactly. I suspect for the vast majority of users simple HR response to exercise effort is all that is required. Add in a simple calorie consumption calculation based on age, height and weight and you have it covered.


----------



## Miszka

j_winston said:


> Date&price may well be credible, but Suunto has no R&D in France, all in Finland.


You are correct and I wasn't precise: they work closely with Salomon athletes and there is a lot of back and forth between Annency and Vantaa. Hence the French tend to have good gossip on Suunto products.


----------



## morey000

pjc3 said:


> Exactly. I suspect for the vast majority of users simple HR response to exercise effort is all that is required. Add in a simple calorie consumption calculation based on age, height and weight and you have it covered.


Actually- my question was not trying to make a statement about it being more data than most people want... but rather, for the data junkie enthusiast runner (i.e. me). Has anyone figured out what to do with vertical oscillation? or ground contact time? Is it something that you can intentionally monitor and vary your stride in some way to optimize? Ground contact time naturally decreases with speed. and- hills change it. So- it's fun data collection, but I have no idea how one would use it for training purposes. does anyone? (I am legitimately interested)


----------



## BillyX

morey000 said:


> What do you do with that information? how is it helpful/useful to you?


That's the real problem of Suunto. They have this data, but movescount is not able to use this. This data would enable to implement a electronic personal trainer, that would be a reason to buy a watch for 600 Euro. Only the HR is also possible with the 20 Euro watch from the supermarket.


----------



## nebri

Perhaps andrew coggan has some ideas about that:

Maximum ground reaction force, leg stiffness, etc - Stryd


----------



## nebri

morey000 said:


> Actually- my question was not trying to make a statement about it being more data than most people want... but rather, for the data junkie enthusiast runner (i.e. me). Has anyone figured out what to do with vertical oscillation? or ground contact time? Is it something that you can intentionally monitor and vary your stride in some way to optimize? Ground contact time naturally decreases with speed. and- hills change it. So- it's fun data collection, but I have no idea how one would use it for training purposes. does anyone? (I am legitimately interested)


Perhaps andrew coggan has some ideas about that:

Maximum ground reaction force, leg stiffness, etc - Stryd


----------



## morey000

nebri said:


> Perhaps andrew coggan has some ideas about that:
> 
> Maximum ground reaction force, leg stiffness, etc - Stryd


Well, I certainly trust Coggin. Sounds like he's just figuring out what can be done with it. could be interesting in the near future.


----------



## shorty1

I am reliably informed that the new ambit 4 appears in the month of June 2016. Probably a smartwatch.


----------



## shorty1

I am reliably informed that the new ambit 4 appears in the month of June 2016. Probably a smartwatch


----------



## Miszka

shorty1 said:


> I am reliably informed that the new ambit 4 appears in the month of June 2016. Probably a smartwatch


Good to hear it's from a reliable source. Wonder what is the new name, as Suunto has given up on Ambit line. Who brings it first to the forum wins!


----------



## pa7a7oz

miszkafiszman said:


> Good to hear it's from a reliable source. Wonder what is the new name, as Suunto has given up on Ambit line. Who brings it first to the forum wins!


A french retailer said me "suunto spartan"...


----------



## rdm01

pa7a7oz said:


> A french retailer said me "suunto spartan"...


Spartan was a Vector-like Suunto's watch. Maybe it will be Spartan2 

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Miszka

rdm01 said:


> Spartan was a Vector-like Suunto's watch. Maybe it will be Spartan2


True: Suunto Spartan
But knowing the unorthodox marketing strategies of the Suunto Team, the resuraction of Spartan brand is not unlikely, is it?


----------



## pa7a7oz

miszkafiszman said:


> True: Suunto Spartan
> But knowing the unorthodox marketing strategies of the Suunto Team, the resuraction of Spartan brand is not unlikely, is it?


Suunto spartan is now missing on product support.... (cf pictures)


----------



## Miszka

pa7a7oz said:


> Suunto spartan is now missing on product support.... (cf pictures)


It's kinda cool, the Greek mythology deathmatch: Fenix the bird vs. Spartan the hunk. Garmin is already on it: https://apps.garmin.com/pl-PL/apps/1b5366a1-312f-472c-8307-2a1df91f9824


----------



## PabloAlarcon

I just found this picture of Anna Frost of some recent training session in La Palma, wearing a misterious watch, as far as I Know Anna is a Suunto Athlete or at least uses an Ambit3 S for her training, as you can see in Movescount profile "annafrosty", it doesn't look like any Garmin I know or at least not to any wtch I know. Will this be some sort of prototype for the upcoming Ambit3 replacement or some all brand new model to add to the Suunto sport watches family?


----------



## rdm01

PabloAlarcon said:


> I just found this picture of Anna Frost of some recent training session in La Palma, wearing a misterious watch, as far as I Know Anna is a Suunto Athlete or at least uses an Ambit3 S for her training, as you can see in Movescount profile "annafrosty", it doesn't look like any Garmin I know or at least not to any wtch I know. Will this be some sort of prototype for the upcoming Ambit3 replacement or some all brand new model to add to the Suunto sport watches family?
> View attachment 7935370


Frosty is more a Salomon athlete than Suunto's. She use to wear simple small stopwatch instead GPS. I think she's wearing some kind of timex or so...

Anyway we'll see in the next weeks 

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Miszka

rdm01 said:


> Frosty is more a Salomon athlete than Suunto's. She use to wear simple small stopwatch instead GPS. I think she's wearing some kind of timex or so... Anyway we'll see in the next weeks


Yup, it's a pretty beat-up Timex Ironman Women's Timex Ironman® Classic 30 Lap Digital Wa... : Target


----------



## boksyl

Hi, movescount service users have probably noticed that there have latelly been an invitation from suunto for the volonteers to test their new version of movescount service that they are going to release. I think this may indicate some significant changes that are about to come maybe related with the new product. Does anyone of you managed to volonteer for being a tester there and has an idea whether there are any symptoms of the new watch being released together with this new version of movescount?


----------



## anto1980

I'm a Beta Tester but I have no info about new products...


boksyl said:


> Hi, movescount service users have probably noticed that there have latelly been an invitation from suunto for the volonteers to test their new version of movescount service that they are going to release. I think this may indicate some significant changes that are about to come maybe related with the new product. Does anyone of you managed to volonteer for being a tester there and has an idea whether there are any symptoms of the new watch being released together with this new version of movescount?


----------



## rdm01

anto1980 said:


> I'm a Beta Tester but I have no info about new products...


Are there more metrics recorded like steps/daily calories/ascended distance or so?

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Miszka

rdm01 said:


> Are there more metrics recorded like steps/daily calories/ascended distance or so?


...or running POWER, incorported?


----------



## paulteini

Hope to hear a response on the new capabilities of the movescount beta.

As far as announcement/release dates go for the Ambit successor, is there any clear strategy behind the timing or do they simply announce it when it is close to ready? It appears that past Ambits have been released on the following dates. I don't see a pattern...

Ambit, announcement, release
1, Tuesday 1/17/2012, 4/3/2012
2, Monday 4/29/2013, same
3, Thursday 6/19/2014, 9/1/2014


----------



## paul1928

boksyl said:


> Hi, movescount service users have probably noticed that there have latelly been an invitation from suunto for the volonteers to test their new version of movescount service that they are going to release. I think this may indicate some significant changes that are about to come maybe related with the new product. Does anyone of you managed to volonteer for being a tester there and has an idea whether there are any symptoms of the new watch being released together with this new version of movescount?


Suunto made all beta testers agree to a pretty comprehensive non-disclosure agreement before they're supplied/shown anything. I doubt you'll get anything from them in here.


----------



## SavageSS

morey000 said:


> What do you do with that information? how is it helpful/useful to you?


That my friend is personal, and one should not have to justify why certain features are useful or what they do with it?

For me I love seeing stats and as much information I can get, this is to me justified enough. Otherwise why would you get an Ambit, that connects to your watch so you can see SMS messages when you have your phone for that, as an example.

If you must know, I'm very focused my stride and my ground contact balance.
My balance is off and has been confirmed with a podiatrist, I've been working on lower back pain which is related to this, and since identifying this bit of info I'm working on stretches focused on improving my balance, I'm noticing my ground contact balance is improving and so too my lower back pain.

Can be likened to about anything people buy, sure you can get a base car the gets you from A to B, so why bother with a better spec model that give you electric Windows, cruise control, Digital radio, looks better etc.


----------



## Antoine Ducuing

Hi,

I noticed something weird on Kilian Jornet's Movescount profile. When using a "Ambit 3 Peak" the image displayed is not the usual one (A Ambit 3 Peak Sapphire). I only noticed this "bug" with his profile.

Any clue for the next watch ?


----------



## Antoine Ducuing

This is how it should look like :


----------



## rdm01

Antoine Ducuing said:


> Hi,
> 
> I noticed something weird on Kilian Jornet's Movescount profile. When using a "Ambit 3 Peak" the image displayed is not the usual one (A Ambit 3 Peak Sapphire). I only noticed this "bug" with his profile.
> 
> Any clue for the next watch ?
> 
> View attachment 8006954


Looks to me the A3 that suunto said was a Killian's custom design using the online tool...

deporteporvida.com


----------



## Miszka

Yes, it's Killian's Custom Peak Suunto Design Gallery. Although fort the traning he uses mostly the black Peak, "more discreet"


----------



## Miszka

Massive sale of Ambits in the States, the A3's moved to "outlet" section. The "outletting" part will last till June, 19th if anyone needs anymore indcitation when the A4's are coming.


----------



## pa7a7oz

Antoine Ducuing said:


> Hi,
> 
> I noticed something weird on Kilian Jornet's Movescount profile. When using a "Ambit 3 Peak" the image displayed is not the usual one (A Ambit 3 Peak Sapphire). I only noticed this "bug" with his profile.
> 
> Any clue for the next watch ?
> 
> View attachment 8006954


Hi all, 
take a look at this video at 3'28""




ambit4?


----------



## rdm01

pa7a7oz said:


> Hi all,
> take a look at this video at 3'28""
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ambit4?


Can you share the link as text? I can't see the video in Tapatalk :-(

Update: I got it

deporteporvida.com


----------



## chuwi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoEdy_Vy_V4&feature=youtu.be&t=3m25s


----------



## petmic

pa7a7oz said:


> Hi all,
> take a look at this video at 3'28""
> ambit4?


That's Core All black!


----------



## morey000

Take your time Suunto. Garmin just released their 735XT. More or less, a Fenix3HR in the FR235 package for $450, available today.

Not sure what the 'waves of innovation' are going to be next month, but Garmin isn't making it easy for you.


----------



## martowl

morey000 said:


> Take your time Suunto. Garmin just released their 735XT. More or less, a Fenix3HR in the FR235 package for $450, available today.
> 
> Not sure what the 'waves of innovation' are going to be next month, but Garmin isn't making it easy for you.


Except the 735XT has no barometric altimeter so not quite the fenix equivalent. But agree with you, small device that has a lot of capability.


----------



## bruceames

A barometric altimeter is a must for good altitude accuracy (using it as the primary altimeter while using GPS altitude for dynamic calibration), as well as for reasonably accurate total ascent/descent data (and other derivative data). So the more vertical you do, the more essential that feature is.


----------



## newtonfb

While the Fenix 3 is more my style, atleast garmin is releasing new products with new features. The Vertical and Traverse are basically the same as the Ambit line, same software with different tweaks. Also most of the new features will be available to the old watches also....unlike the Ambit 3 peak which wont get the altitude profile (from the traverse and vertical) which is an absolute joke. You would think since the Peak is the "flagship" device for the company it would keep updating it with new features. Ive still got my A3P but if Suunto doesnt wow me with an ambit 4 release Im going to have to jump on the Fenix 4 when its released late this year or early next year.


----------



## Miszka

Light and small 24/7 watch is nice when you have to wear it whole day... On closer look, though, 735XT looks like a bad joke. It's an overpriced 235 with a rubbish battery life. Same hardware as 235. The OHRM in the triathlon is uselees in two essential segments: swimming and riding (see the DCR notes on using wrist-based OHRM on bike). And lack of the barometric altimeter sends wrong message to the mountain folks (like most of us). It definetly is not a Ambit4 killer, the Fenix 4 might be.


----------



## Pirk

I don't know if this is a standard answer from Suunto or we are getting closer to a release?

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/730696440180150272


----------



## martowl

newtonfb said:


> While the Fenix 3 is more my style, atleast garmin is releasing new products with new features. The Vertical and Traverse are basically the same as the Ambit line, same software with different tweaks. Also most of the new features will be available to the old watches also....unlike the Ambit 3 peak which wont get the altitude profile (from the traverse and vertical) which is an absolute joke. You would think since the Peak is the "flagship" device for the company it would keep updating it with new features. Ive still got my A3P but if Suunto doesnt wow me with an ambit 4 release Im going to have to jump on the Fenix 4 when its released late this year or early next year.


Enjoy that, a friend was running the CO marathon, had 40% charge and his died 1/2 way through the race for no reason. Dramatically reduced battery life compared to A3P. Sure the Fenix has more bells and whistles but how many of those do you use??

For me, the ability to draw a route on my iPhone and have it sync to the watch is a great feature...it works and I use it often when traveling.

I can build a workout or change an existing workout just before I run on the phone and in 30 sec it is synced to the watch.

My sports screens are set up in Movescount. I normally don't have a swim screen available on the watch but....if I travel I can turn one on and sync...30 sec and the swimming is there.

I have been incorporating power into my workouts with the Stryd. Garmin has not and likely will not enable power as a metric in running, you have to use a bike profile. Connect IQ may fix this but Suunto provided a firmware update to integrate power into all of their devices that could manage it, including the Run models.

The A3P may not have all the bells and whistles but it works, I use it for training and racing and I do not have to worry about losing data! For training it has more than I need, I do not use all of the features so I guess I feel I do not need any more.

We have seen a lot of posts about accuracy and the Fenix may be ok but there are a lot of individuals with them that are not happy with the GPS accuracy. A3P is used as the standard to check the other watches....I would say that is pretty good, why "fix" it when it is not broken?

Sorry, I have had many Garmins in the past and I won't go back....my device works.


----------



## newtonfb

martowl said:


> Enjoy that, a friend was running the CO marathon, had 40% charge and his died 1/2 way through the race for no reason. Dramatically reduced battery life compared to A3P. Sure the Fenix has more bells and whistles but how many of those do you use??
> 
> For me, the ability to draw a route on my iPhone and have it sync to the watch is a great feature...it works and I use it often when traveling.
> 
> I can build a workout or change an existing workout just before I run on the phone and in 30 sec it is synced to the watch.
> 
> My sports screens are set up in Movescount. I normally don't have a swim screen available on the watch but....if I travel I can turn one on and sync...30 sec and the swimming is there.
> 
> I have been incorporating power into my workouts with the Stryd. Garmin has not and likely will not enable power as a metric in running, you have to use a bike profile. Connect IQ may fix this but Suunto provided a firmware update to integrate power into all of their devices that could manage it, including the Run models.
> 
> The A3P may not have all the bells and whistles but it works, I use it for training and racing and I do not have to worry about losing data! For training it has more than I need, I do not use all of the features so I guess I feel I do not need any more.
> 
> We have seen a lot of posts about accuracy and the Fenix may be ok but there are a lot of individuals with them that are not happy with the GPS accuracy. A3P is used as the standard to check the other watches....I would say that is pretty good, why "fix" it when it is not broken?
> 
> Sorry, I have had many Garmins in the past and I won't go back....my device works.


I cannot draw routes on my phone and sync them. I'm using Android which may be the issue but shouldn't be in 2016.
I love the peaks battery life also. It's the main reason why I still have it. But I also want to have custom widgets on my watch face, Altitude profile, live breadcrumb trail, color screen be nice but it's not a deal breaker even though I believe we are at the point of color screens are standard. Also better app support. The app zone on moves count is a wasteland, part of that is because suunto limits what you can do.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Miszka

Pirk said:


> I don't know if this is a standard answer from Suunto or we are getting closer to a release?
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/730696440180150272


Yeah, it's pretty standard. On facebook too.


----------



## morey000

bruceames said:


> A barometric altimeter is a must for good altitude accuracy (using it as the primary altimeter while using GPS altitude for dynamic calibration), as well as for reasonably accurate total ascent/descent data (and other derivative data). So the more vertical you do, the more essential that feature is.


Just a nit, but Barometric Altimeters are actually less accurate than the gps based altitude, but more precise. So, if you climb 3m, it's going to be much better at seeing that accurately. But for letting you know your exact altitude MLS, weather can easily change it by 100m or more- less accurate than GPS.

That said, there are some good uses for the barometer. If you're using DanielP's running power app, it will be more responsive with a barometric altimeter. Not sure what else I'd use it for outside of that. Storm warning if I'm camping? Maybe getting a current accurate climb rate or %grade for ascent/descent? I guess there are a few things- depending on your needs.


----------



## bruceames

morey000 said:


> Just a nit, but Barometric Altimeters are actually less accurate than the gps based altitude, but more precise. So, if you climb 3m, it's going to be much better at seeing that accurately. But for letting you know your exact altitude MLS, weather can easily change it by 100m or more- less accurate than GPS.
> 
> That said, there are some good uses for the barometer. If you're using DanielP's running power app, it will be more responsive with a barometric altimeter. Not sure what else I'd use it for outside of that. Storm warning if I'm camping? Maybe getting a current accurate climb rate or %grade for ascent/descent? I guess there are a few things- depending on your needs.


True, either of them alone are not very accurate. It's the combination (FusedAlti) of the two that provides the accuracy. I'm still amazing at how accurate it is compared to my older watches like the T6.


----------



## Oberkfell

bruceames said:


> morey000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a nit, but Barometric Altimeters are actually less accurate than the gps based altitude, but more precise. So, if you climb 3m, it's going to be much better at seeing that accurately. But for letting you know your exact altitude MLS, weather can easily change it by 100m or more- less accurate than GPS.
> 
> That said, there are some good uses for the barometer. If you're using DanielP's running power app, it will be more responsive with a barometric altimeter. Not sure what else I'd use it for outside of that. Storm warning if I'm camping? Maybe getting a current accurate climb rate or %grade for ascent/descent? I guess there are a few things- depending on your needs.
> 
> 
> 
> True, either of them alone are not very accurate. It's the combination (FusedAlti) of the two that provides the accuracy. I'm still amazing at how accurate it is compared to my older watches like the T6.
Click to expand...

Good synopsis. I have a 37 dollar redclover abc watch that is just as accurate as my traverse. In fact for predicting weather it is more accurate.

I tested my A3s, traverse, and redclover and they were close in regards to ascent and descent. But, actual elevation goes to the traverse.

Predicting the weather; however, is a landslide victory for the 37 plastic watch.


----------



## BillyX

morey000 said:


> Just a nit, but Barometric Altimeters are actually less accurate than the gps based altitude, but more precise. So, if you climb 3m, it's going to be much better at seeing that accurately. But for letting you know your exact altitude MLS, weather can easily change it by 100m or more- less accurate than GPS.


GPS is accurate for about 20m in horizontal, but vertical it is 3 times less accurate.


----------



## PaulR7

morey000 said:


> Take your time Suunto. Garmin just released their 735XT. More or less, a Fenix3HR in the FR235 package for $450, available today.
> 
> Not sure what the 'waves of innovation' are going to be next month, but Garmin isn't making it easy for you.


Garmin have also updated the s/w for the Fenix3HR: now its all broken!! I now have an expensive device that is effectively a stopwatch with GPS!! Garmin forum is full of WHR issues since update. Garmin answer .... lets release new beta which doesn't address the issues!! Patience is a virtue & if I had any I'd have GBP 470 still in my pocket!!


----------



## HIKESOLO

I'm REALLY hoping Suunto makes an announcement in the next 30 days or so.


----------



## boofhead123

i am also hoping that the ambit 4 is coming soon. i am also NOT as i just purchased an ambit3 peak. i guess i cant have all the latest gear.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

EatPlayLift said:


> I'm REALLY hoping Suunto makes an announcement in the next 30 days or so.


Hope springs eternal... Then again, "30 days or so" does pretty much get us into summer, to the outdoor (gear) shows and all that...


----------



## HIKESOLO

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Hope springs eternal... Then again, "30 days or so" does pretty much get us into summer, to the outdoor (gear) shows and all that...


When I said 30 days or so, I was talking more like June 10-14, haha.


----------



## Miszka

For the June release there is surprising lack of physical evidence of the upcoming device. But it is still the most accurate prediction


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

miszkafiszman said:


> For the June release there is surprising lack of physical evidence of the upcoming device. But it is still the most accurate prediction


It's how Suunto rolls, playing its cards close... (On the upside: only releasing a product when it's pretty stable in its functions, complications notwithstanding.)

How can you tell that a prediction is accurate before it happened? *scratcheshead*


----------



## Miszka

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> How can you tell that a prediction is accurate before it happened? *scratcheshead*


Having no physical evidences of leaks, we are forced to deduct from the circumstantial evidences - outdoor expos, sponsoring tri events, special sales of the Ambit 3 lines that end in mid June, plus Gediminas and bunch of other athletes. All those things, circumstantiallly, if you are willing to stay with me, point to the late May, early June. Is it accurate? We'll see. It's not court we are here in, it's a hobby, and the game is - who predicts best, wins


----------



## paul1928

miszkafiszman said:


> and the game is - who predicts best, wins


Wins what?


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt




----------



## Miszka

paul1928 said:


> Wins what?


Wins praise of the colleagues, pat on the back in a form of a "like", what else is there to win in the world?


----------



## FlashLighter

miszkafiszman said:


> Wins praise of the colleagues, pat on the back in a form of a "like", what else is there to win in the world?


Collecting likes since 2004.


----------



## dissipator16

I have been a longtime suunto nerd and enthusiast. I still own an old vector ( which i never wear anymore but will keep). But recently, I tried out the traverse and ambit vertical. Both were well made, but neither had all the features i wanted (ambit 3 peak / fenix 3 hr), and the one thing that always annoyed me was how the band keepers NEVER stayed in place. The stud on the inside of the keeper might as well have been left off since it never worked. I was soo frustrated ( never liked the true ambit series due to the crappy band), that as soon as the fenix 3 hr came out, i tried it. I love it. The following are highlights to me:

Fenix 3 HR pros-

most comfortable watch band with a single keeper which has never disengaged or slipped / user has easy access to screws to swap bands

very slim on the wrist

color and highly customizable display

every ABC function and feature and sport mode imaginable.

BATTERY LIFE IS AMAZING! My vertical ( and maybe traverse, i forget) would last only 2 weeks!! WTF!!! that is BS for a watch that is 450. I do not have my HR function on constantly (when i did, it was only a 2 week battery life), but with intermittent activities and no constant HR, the watch lasts well over a month easy.


I wanted to love the current suunto offerings, but could not. In my estimate, Suunto is releasing these half assed watches while focusing on the ambit 4. Suunto better get it right with the ambit 4, I think they will. I will be the first to buy one. but, as I type this, I am wearing my Fenix3hr and couldn't be happier (unless it was a suunto


----------



## anto1980

Same situation!
I'm a Suunto enthusiast since the 2006! I'm also a Beta Tester and I use regularly an Ambit3 Peak Customized.
I bought an F3HR and I'm very happy for it! It was incredibly improved than 1 years ago!
But Ambit3 Peak has an incredible battery life! 200hours with 1min gps fix.
I hope a new Suunto will be released soon! 
Sorry for my english.

[Quote = dissipator16; 29.357.730] Sono stato un secchione Suunto di lunga data e appassionato. Ho ancora un vecchio vettore (che non ho mai indossare più, ma terrò). Ma di recente, ho provato la traversata e ambito verticale. Entrambi sono stati ben fatto, ma nessuno dei due aveva tutte le caratteristiche che volevo (ambito 3 di picco / Fenix 3 ore), e l'unica cosa che sempre mi ha infastidito è stato come i custodi della band mai stati in posto. Il perno sulla parte interna del detentore potrebbe anche essere stato lasciato fuori dal momento che non ha mai funzionato. Ero frustrato soo (mai piaciuta la vera serie ambito a causa della banda scadente), che non appena l'hr Fenix 3 è uscito, ho provato. Lo adoro. Di seguito sono riflessi a me: Fenix 3 HR protesi cinturino più comodo con una sola rete che non ha mai disimpegnati o scivolato / utente ha un facile accesso alle viti di scambiare bande molto sottile al polso di colore e di visualizzazione altamente personalizzabile ogni funzione ABC e caratteristica e lo sport la modalità che si possa immaginare. DURATA DELLA BATTERIA è incredibile! Il mio verticale (e forse traverse, non ricordo) sarebbe durato solo 2 settimane !! WTF !!! cioè BS per un orologio che è 450. non ho la mia funzione HR in continuo (quando l'ho fatto, è stato solo una durata della batteria due settimane), ma con attività intermittenti e non costante delle risorse umane, l'orologio dura ben più di un mese facile. volevo amare le offerte Suunto attuali, ma non ci sono riuscita. Nella mia stima, Suunto sta rilasciando questi orologi metà assed mentre ci si concentra sul nell'ambito 4. Suunto meglio farlo bene con l'ambito 4, penso che lo faranno. Io sarò il primo a comprare uno. ma, mentre scrivo questo, sto indossando la mia Fenix3hr e non potrei essere più felice (a meno che non si trattava di un Suunto [/ quote]


----------



## Ivan_Ivanusic

what are you testing? new movescount site or something else?


anto1980 said:


> Same situation!
> I'm a Suunto enthusiast since the 2006! I'm also a Beta Tester and I use regularly an Ambit3 Peak Customized.
> I bought an F3HR and I'm very happy for it! It was incredibly improved than 1 years ago!
> But Ambit3 Peak has an incredible battery life! 200hours with 1min gps fix.
> I hope a new Suunto will be released soon!
> Sorry for my english.
> 
> [Quote = dissipator16; 29.357.730] Sono stato un secchione Suunto di lunga data e appassionato. Ho ancora un vecchio vettore (che non ho mai indossare più, ma terrò). Ma di recente, ho provato la traversata e ambito verticale. Entrambi sono stati ben fatto, ma nessuno dei due aveva tutte le caratteristiche che volevo (ambito 3 di picco / Fenix 3 ore), e l'unica cosa che sempre mi ha infastidito è stato come i custodi della band mai stati in posto. Il perno sulla parte interna del detentore potrebbe anche essere stato lasciato fuori dal momento che non ha mai funzionato. Ero frustrato soo (mai piaciuta la vera serie ambito a causa della banda scadente), che non appena l'hr Fenix 3 è uscito, ho provato. Lo adoro. Di seguito sono riflessi a me: Fenix 3 HR protesi cinturino più comodo con una sola rete che non ha mai disimpegnati o scivolato / utente ha un facile accesso alle viti di scambiare bande molto sottile al polso di colore e di visualizzazione altamente personalizzabile ogni funzione ABC e caratteristica e lo sport la modalità che si possa immaginare. DURATA DELLA BATTERIA è incredibile! Il mio verticale (e forse traverse, non ricordo) sarebbe durato solo 2 settimane !! WTF !!! cioè BS per un orologio che è 450. non ho la mia funzione HR in continuo (quando l'ho fatto, è stato solo una durata della batteria due settimane), ma con attività intermittenti e non costante delle risorse umane, l'orologio dura ben più di un mese facile. volevo amare le offerte Suunto attuali, ma non ci sono riuscita. Nella mia stima, Suunto sta rilasciando questi orologi metà assed mentre ci si concentra sul nell'ambito 4. Suunto meglio farlo bene con l'ambito 4, penso che lo faranno. Io sarò il primo a comprare uno. ma, mentre scrivo questo, sto indossando la mia Fenix3hr e non potrei essere più felice (a meno che non si trattava di un Suunto [/ quote]


----------



## eeun

Ivan_Ivanusic said:


> what are you testing? new movescount site or something else?


Surprised a beta tester admitted to being so, no chance of any information on what is coming/being tested if he want's to stay a beta tester.


----------



## newtonfb

I wish someone could figure out how to extract Suuntos firmware of each of the watches. There is no reason why the Vertical and Traverse cannot do the exact same things. Also the Peak should be able to do everything and anything that the newer watches do(altitude profile). Its so stupid that Suunto is fragmenting products like this.


----------



## bruceames

dissipator16 said:


> I have been a longtime suunto nerd and enthusiast. I still own an old vector ( which i never wear anymore but will keep). But recently, I tried out the traverse and ambit vertical. Both were well made, but neither had all the features i wanted (ambit 3 peak / fenix 3 hr), and the one thing that always annoyed me was how the band keepers NEVER stayed in place. The stud on the inside of the keeper might as well have been left off since it never worked. I was soo frustrated ( never liked the true ambit series due to the crappy band), that as soon as the fenix 3 hr came out, i tried it. I love it. The following are highlights to me:
> 
> Fenix 3 HR pros-
> 
> most comfortable watch band with a single keeper which has never disengaged or slipped / user has easy access to screws to swap bands
> 
> very slim on the wrist
> 
> color and highly customizable display
> 
> every ABC function and feature and sport mode imaginable.
> 
> BATTERY LIFE IS AMAZING! My vertical ( and maybe traverse, i forget) would last only 2 weeks!! WTF!!! that is BS for a watch that is 450. I do not have my HR function on constantly (when i did, it was only a 2 week battery life), but with intermittent activities and no constant HR, the watch lasts well over a month easy.
> 
> I wanted to love the current suunto offerings, but could not. In my estimate, Suunto is releasing these half assed watches while focusing on the ambit 4. Suunto better get it right with the ambit 4, I think they will. I will be the first to buy one. but, as I type this, I am wearing my Fenix3hr and couldn't be happier (unless it was a suunto


*Ambit 3 Peak pros-*

Longer battery life

More accurate GPS

More accurate altimeter

More reliable watch overall

(sure I missed a few, but those above will suffice)

I'm not familiar with the Traverse or the Vertical, but I believe the Peak is cheaper than either of those watches and it does just about everything those watches do and on top of that performs better in the key areas I just listed. Anyway the F3 should be compared to the Peak, not the Ambit spin-off watches that actually descend from the Ambit Sport line. The A4 will be the replacement for the Peak.


----------



## paul1928

miszkafiszman said:


> Wins praise of the colleagues, pat on the back in a form of a "like", what else is there to win in the world?


Wins fake Internet points! =D


----------



## roots_n_rocks

well, dc garminmaker posted that ambits 3 are on sale, so i suppose ambit 4 is about to arrive soon


----------



## Miszka

It's not the first Suunto sale he has noted. Garminmaker? Don't blame lagging Suunto R&D screw-ups on the DCR, he is the salt of the earth of our community.


----------



## HIKESOLO

roots_n_rocks said:


> well, dc garminmaker posted that ambits 3 are on sale, so i suppose ambit 4 is about to arrive soon


Garmins are on sale as well. I think multiple companies have sales right around now.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

miszkafiszman said:


> It's not the first Suunto sale he has noted. Garminmaker? Don't blame lagging Suunto R&D screw-ups on the DCR, he is the salt of the earth of our community.


Ahem. (And no, I did not mean to write Amen.)


----------



## Miszka

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Ahem. (And no, I did not mean to write Amen.)


To be honest, I was counting on it being Amen


----------



## HIKESOLO

Ok...I'm buying whatever comes out first, the Fenix 4 or the Ambit 4 (or whatever the name is). Let the games begin.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

miszkafiszman said:


> To be honest, I was counting on it being Amen


After the Vertical review basically just said that the altitude profile tracking didn't work?

But, I'm the competition, so definitely biased.

It's just aggravating how the online world is still considered a democratic (á "you are on an equal footing; just do it, too") space where quality rises, but once somebody has established themselves into a position where a lot of attention goes to them, pretty much the majority of attention goes to them. (Don't get me wrong; he's done a tremendous amount of work. Still is. But, there's also other factors at work which you have to learn all about when you actually do something in a same arena as someone else...)


----------



## Miszka

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> After the Vertical review basically just said that the altitude profile tracking didn't work? But, I'm the competition, so definitely biased. It's just aggravating how the online world is still considered a democratic (á "you are on an equal footing; just do it, too") space where quality rises, but once somebody has established themselves into a position where a lot of attention goes to them, pretty much the majority of attention goes to them. (Don't get me wrong; he's done a tremendous amount of work. Still is. But, there's also other factors at work which you have to learn all about when you actually do something in a same arena as someone else...)


OK then, let's dive into this. The "altitude profile tracking" problem was something the DCR noted. He didn't say in the "explainer" (it wasn't the customary 'in depth review') that Suunto screwed it up and moved on, he started looking for the solution, corresponding with Suunto, taking us step by step what went wrong. That's what buys reputation points. That's why so many people trust him. He does the work for us.

On the second point, the DCR reputation is one of the stongest, if not the strongest on the market. His job at Microsoft and percentage points from Clever Training allowed him to have multi-million dollar war chest against the wannabe influencers. Thus keeping at bay PR guyes the value of his street cred multiplied with each review. 99% of other reviewers don't have that, being bought and sold for a shiny objects like a new watch "borrowed" for "testing". So sure, there are "other factors at work", but I still believe, when/if the Suunto gets its .... together with the Ambit successor, the DCR will give it a glowing review, he will put them in the summer recommendations, and force The Girl to wear it.

I wish Suunto and Polar the best, I much more prefer their gorgeous design and function, but today, in 2016, there is no competition for Garmin, who keep on innovative, introduce new models, test new fields, stirring market each month with a new product, and eating their Finnish competition alive.

PS. I love your reviews, your calm attention to detail, and I'd never think of you as the 99% of the instagram-ready flock.


----------



## Miszka

HIKESOLO said:


> Ok...I'm buying whatever comes out first, the Fenix 4 or the Ambit 4 (or whatever the name is). Let the games begin.


Amen, 100% agreed. Fenix4 seems like CES, though.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Funny point: Actually something of that "democratizing" effect of the online world (that hides e.g. the basis from which different people/companies start out) seems to be at work with regards to Garmin vs. Suunto.

You look for GPS outdoors watches, you'll find those two companies.
You look at the watches, they're similar.
You look at reviews (and problems), they're quite similar.

You look at offerings, and Garmin seems to be eating Suunto's lunch.

What you don't see - and what can't really be used as an excuse, but does explain things to some extent - is that Garmin is a behemoth compared to Suunto.

Garmin International: 10,001+ employees
Suunto: 201-500 employees
(numbers from the companies' LinkedIn pages)

Oh, and we're getting real close to hearing something about Suunto's new offering!


----------



## Miszka

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Funny point: Actually something of that "democratizing" effect of the online world (that hides e.g. the basis from which different people/companies start out) seems to be at work with regards to Garmin vs. Suunto. You look for GPS outdoors watches, you'll find those two companies. You look at the watches, they're similar. You look at reviews (and problems), they're quite similar. You look at offerings, and Garmin seems to be eating Suunto's lunch. What you don't see - and what can't really be used as an excuse, but does explain things to some extent - is that Garmin is a behemoth compared to Suunto. Garmin International: 10,001+ employees. Suunto: 201-500 employees (numbers from the companies' LinkedIn pages) Oh, and we're getting real close to hearing something about Suunto's new offering!


Sure, it's a David vs. Goliath thing. That's way I (we) prefer the little guy, the contender. One thing to rember, though, is that Suunto is subsidary of an industry giant - Amer Sport, and it's their decision not to take the risk and challange Garmin on the global stage with an influx of R&D and products. What I'm worried is that Suunto made a decsion to be a premium brand, killing their dirt-bag market, who doesn't care about ceramics, but likes to have nice battery and accurate GPS.

Spill some beans on the Ambit (Spartan?)!


----------



## roots_n_rocks

i only have one thing to say:

- i want the best quality product
- with the most features
- in the best possible price
- and i couldn't care less who makes it


----------



## Miszka

roots_n_rocks said:


> i only have one thing to say:
> 
> - i want the best quality product
> - with the most features
> - in the best possible price
> - and i couldn't care less who makes it


Sounds like Polar V800 to me


----------



## HIKESOLO

miszkafiszman said:


> roots_n_rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> i only have one thing to say:
> 
> - i want the best quality product
> - with the most features
> - in the best possible price
> - and i couldn't care less who makes it
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like Polar V800 to me
Click to expand...

Polar has hideous looking options. I'd only wear their watches during activities, never as a daily watch.


----------



## Miszka

HIKESOLO said:


> Polar has hideous looking options. I'd only wear their watches during activities, never as a daily watch.


Really? Did you see the new all-black V800? In Europe it's so much cheaper than either Garmin or Suunto:
https://www.polar.com/us-en/products/pro/V800_javier_gomez_noya_special_edition


----------



## martowl

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Funny point: Actually something of that "democratizing" effect of the online world (that hides e.g. the basis from which different people/companies start out) seems to be at work with regards to Garmin vs. Suunto.
> 
> You look for GPS outdoors watches, you'll find those two companies.
> You look at the watches, they're similar.
> You look at reviews (and problems), they're quite similar.
> 
> You look at offerings, and Garmin seems to be eating Suunto's lunch.
> 
> What you don't see - and what can't really be used as an excuse, but does explain things to some extent - is that Garmin is a behemoth compared to Suunto.
> 
> Garmin International: 10,001+ employees
> Suunto: 201-500 employees
> (numbers from the companies' LinkedIn pages)
> 
> Oh, and we're getting real close to hearing something about Suunto's new offering!


But remember......

Garmin makes GPS devices for aircraft, boats, etc. so it is not accurate to simply compare the number of employees. It would be interesting to know how many employees work only on the wrist wearable market and then compare.


----------



## HIKESOLO

miszkafiszman said:


> HIKESOLO said:
> 
> 
> 
> Polar has hideous looking options. I'd only wear their watches during activities, never as a daily watch.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Did you see the new all-black V800? In Europe it's so much cheaper than either Garmin or Suunto:
> https://www.polar.com/us-en/products/pro/V800_javier_gomez_noya_special_edition
Click to expand...

I just personally don't like the Polar look. I'll admit that's the nicest one, but still wouldn't want to wear it as my daily watch. Plus the v800 is ancient at this point.


----------



## Miszka

Sure, fair point, it is old. But in the combo features/quality/price, V800 is unbeatable, even against Ambits on sale.


----------



## kitta

o jeees for sure... I cant imagine to go with this V800 in mountains... It would be shattered at the first regular striking the rock. For me as alpinist this watch is far from the title best quality.


----------



## paulteini

All the hints that something is coming soon has me checking this forum way too much  I keep hoping to see a leak or something... probably will have to wait for that DCR post announcing its arrival, can't wait!


----------



## Miszka

kitta said:


> o jeees for sure... I cant imagine to go with this V800 in mountains... It would be shattered at the first regular striking the rock. For me as alpinist this watch is far from the title best quality.


V800 has gorilla glass, though. Not an alpinist watch, like the Peak, but still a mark of something sturdy.


----------



## roots_n_rocks

miszkafiszman said:


> Sure, fair point, it is old. But in the combo features/quality/price, V800 is unbeatable, even against Ambits on sale.


Well from my point of view the ideal watch would be:

FEATURES: garmin 735/fenix 3 + movescount apps
Basically, with ambit 3, i have made an app that i couldn't have made with ther other two. 
That is a dual alarm depending if i am going uphill or downhill.

MANUFACTURING QUALITY: ambit or v800

LOOKS: v800 (i like to have something on my wrist that doesn't look like a casio watch)

PRICE: all are expensive, but with a little search i believe you can find v800 a little bit cheaper


----------



## roots_n_rocks

roots_n_rocks said:


> Well from my point of view the ideal watch would be:
> 
> PRICE: all are expensive, but with a little search i believe you can find v800 a little bit cheaper


well, i think 437aud for v800 with hr is actually a very good price + i like the looks of it + running index was my favorite metric from rs800 and now it takes into account uphills and downhills, i think i am gonna get it...


----------



## bruceames

I think just the fact that they still haven't released a successor to the Peak speaks volumes as to how good a watch it really is. I am not anxious about replacing it at all.

Looks good on my wrist as a training and racing watch, but the size is too big for a day watch. Besides, I already use a smartwatch for everyday use. All this emphasis on looks puts pressure on reducing the size, which in turn will effect GPS accuracy and battery life. Sometimes bigger is better.


----------



## roots_n_rocks

bruceames said:


> All this emphasis on looks puts pressure on reducing the size, which in turn will effect GPS accuracy and battery life. Sometimes bigger is better.


Well, we are the consumers, we got the cash, and the companies need it.
So, can suunto deliver ?

As for size, i am sure you remember how mobile phone looked a few years ago.


----------



## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

roots_n_rocks said:


> As for size, i am sure you remember how mobile phone looked a few years ago.


You mean, much smaller?

(And see above how it's simply assumed that DCR would be the one to turn to for news of an announcement. As if.  )


----------



## backcountry

Like many of you here, I switched from the Ambit3 Peak which I loved (screen was acting up) to a Traverse Alpha Stealth (mainly for its thug-ass looks, lol). Given the size constraints and obvious GPS track accuracy issues on the Ambit Vertical/Traverse vs. Peak I wonder why Suunto hasn't enabled WAAS/EGNOS? This should/would have smoothed the track accuracy issues. 

 I'm no tech expert but given the fact that they all use the exact same SiRF StarV chipsets its almost baffling that they didn't. I emailed the Line Manager and was given a long winded answer about how they didn't feel GLONASS was necessary about a year ago. Sure enough, six months later they rolled it out but only on their new watches. 

It seems like they need a swift kick in the ass to do anything at all, the update schedules on the Ambit Peak have been absolutely pathetic. One every year or so and even then rather meanness (like a interval timer addition or one new setting or such, nothing crazy). I must have sent them about 10 emails from the time the Ambit 1 was released to get GLONASS and well 3 generations later (and one could safely argue closer to 4 Gens later) the Verticals/Traverse line just got them. It seems like they use all the best hardware but for some baffling reason don't utilize 1/4 of it. The Fenix line has had all this stuff for years it seems like an overly conscious effort to be behind the tide or feature-depraved.


----------



## breefmark

I guess there really won't be an Ambit 4, as currently a new model called the *Suunto Spartan Ultra* is being advertised.

I opened a new thread for this, so check it out


----------



## Miszka

Gonna miss this thread, it had been a part of my life for last few months. Thank you all and see you around, nerds!


----------



## gianky73

he is an italian suunto ambassador (cyclist)... what he has on his wrist?? spartan??
https://www.facebook.com/omar.difel...8710481608601/880638138749163/?type=3&theater


----------



## Miszka

Nice catch! 100% Spartan, the regular one (not the titanium). Looks big, huh?


----------



## matej123

Yea nice catch. Looks big and beautiful, i like it big, i hope for good screen resolution.


----------



## Miszka

matej123 said:


> Yea nice catch. Looks big and beautiful, i like it big, i hope for good screen resolution.


I HATE it big  Here is another one:

__
http://instagr.am/p/BGMskOgl-K4/
Can it be a coordinated campaign, to have the Spartan just on the edge of the screen...?


----------



## gianky73

video



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=880724822073828


----------



## mike_right

It looks gorgeous. I love it big too ;-)


----------



## zvojan

vertical on the right looks like a child toy


----------



## HIKESOLO

Here's a link to Omar's Movescount page.

omardifelice's profile - Member at Movescount.com

His moves say they were made by an A3P (which obviously in the photos were Spartan). Maybe Suunto just has it mapped to read as an A3P until release.


----------



## Pirk

Probably a campaign yeah 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/738797090915135488


----------



## Miszka

HIKESOLO said:


> Here's a link to Omar's Movescount page.
> 
> omardifelice's profile - Member at Movescount.com
> 
> His moves say they were made by an A3P (which obviously in the photos were Spartan). Maybe Suunto just has it mapped to read as an A3P until release.


As you watched the facebook video, he used the old Ambit to measure the climb, and the Spartan just for kicks.


----------

