# Damasko's X-Mas news exclusively on WatchUSeek: DSub1 NEW PICTURES (Blue & Black)



## StufflerMike

I already reported about the Damasko DSub1 here and I told you I have already seen a first draft of the black dial version.
On our way to Bad Griesbach where my wife and me are going to spend our X-MAS holidays I thought I'd drop by at Damasko in Barbing en route of the Autobahn A 93 to ask for the latest news. And there's a lot of news to tell you (when the time has come to do so). For today and the time being I can show you the first "real" pics of the black dialed Damasko DSub1. Please note that it is still a sample (Damasko is still working on a smaller crown for example) but you can see that the black dialed DSub1 got a bit more of the Damasko DNA some guys here have been misssing.

I also saw the back engraving on the blue one for the first time, also still a sample but the final engraving will look like that for the blue one. The black one will have almost the same wording but it will get an aditional engraving. Which engraving this will be is not decided yet.

Also worth to be mentioned and very important: There's no fixed date when the DSub1 will be finaly available. Spring seems to be a reasonable guess. Price isn't fixed either.

































Have to dress for dinner now, I'll be back with more pics tonight.


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## COZ

Black and yellow looks pretty good except for the cross hairs, messes up a clean dial.


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## Nokie

Very nice. Would make a great stocking stuffer.


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## Junior29

Very interesting developments as there are a surprising number of significant differences between the two versions at this stage. I will be interested to see where these end up. 

Overall I do prefer the black version as a whole more, even though I don't love the yellow and black combo personally. I am not a fan of added text generally, but the "Professional" and "300m" do balance out the appearance of the crosshairs. That date is still bothersome though. Looking at the pictures I think that if they insist on including the date it should be in the tried and true Damasko format.

Thanks for sharing. I sure wish I could just drop by Damasko and see the latest confidential info.


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## GreatScott

I like the cross hairs on the black, much improved versus the blue IMO. Not so sure on the yellow bezel, does it contain lume?


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## GreatScott

Did anyone what notice the date on the black is not slanted like on the blue?


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## robannenagy

The date should be under the '300m', a bit like the Stowa Seatime, it would give the dial much better balance


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## dinexus

That black dial is infinitely more cohesive and more true to the Damasko spirit than the blue. Looks a little bit like a cross between a Sinn UX and an Aquatimer 3568. Huge fan of the yellow date wheel too – this will look incredible on a yellow ISOfrane. I was a huge hater of the initial reveal of the blue, and only prefer the fully graduated bezel of that version – otherwise, count me a fan of this revision.


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## MATT1076

I like the Black one! Has more of the Damasko DNA with those hands and dial.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## Buellrider

It seems that Damasko is listening and I really appreciate that. The black looks terrific, I am glad they lost the ploprof hands and added the cross hairs.


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## Vig2000

*Re: Damasko's X-Mas news exclusively on WatchUSeek: DSub1 NEW PICTURES (Blue & Black)*



Junior29 said:


> I am not a fan of added text generally, but the "Professional" and "300m" do balance out the appearance of the crosshairs. That date is still bothersome though. Looking at the pictures I think that if they insist on including the date it should be in the tried and true Damasko format.
> 
> Thanks for sharing. I sure wish I could just drop by Damasko and see the latest confidential info.


Yeah, don't know why Damasko just can't (or refuses to) get the date right on these divers despite many objections. However, I disagree about the text and crosshairs: The date positioning, combined with the text at 6 and the crosshairs, on the black/yellow version makes the watch look like a hot mess in terms of symmetry. Way too much going on IMO. Get rid of the text, and move the date to 6. Could keep the trademark Damasko crosshairs by doing this.

I too wish that I had ready access to confidential Damasko information.


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## Buellrider

Cases look different as well. What are the dimensions of the black dialed one? I would prefer closer to 40mm but probably more like 42mm?


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## StufflerMike

More pics as I am now back from dinner

































































Case size btw is the same !


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## GreatScott

Why is the edge on the bezel different on each one, are these both not close to the final production model?


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## StufflerMike

GreatScott said:


> Why is the edge on the bezel different on each one, are these both not close to the final production model?


As for now: Two models, two bezels.


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## robannenagy

stuffler said:


> As for now: Two models, two bezels.


Two different case as well, by the looks of it. The blue dialed one definitely has thicker lugs.


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## COZ

GreatScott said:


> Why is the edge on the bezel different on each one, are these both not close to the final production model?


Ah, good catch, didn't see that the first time around. I like the bezel edge on the black/yellow better, but still like the hand design on the blue/orange. Also like the more aggressive/thicker 12 o'clock marker and date placement/configuration (on blue/orange).

It looks like the crowns are different too, trying to match bezel edge machining. Definitely a few differences in the versions. I get the feeling the designs aren't set yet and are looking at the feedback (?). If that's the case, still like the blue dial version better, love that orange minute hand and clean dial, now just switch the bezel edge, ha!


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## Sylus Grey

Thanks for sharing. I really like the changes they made to the black dail. This an exciting time for Damasko fans.


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## Iandk

Now that we can see the black version, I definitely like that look better than the blue.

The odd date placement still bugs a bit though...


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## bay

*Damasko's X-Mas news exclusively on WatchUSeek: DSub1 NEW PICTURES (Blue & Black)*

Agree on date, but it doesn't bug me very much. I have gotten used to the offset date on my Sinns. I really like this black model a lot and am much more likely to buy it than the blue. No markings on the bezel past 15 minutes gives it a cleaner look despite the crosshairs. If those numbers are lumed and the case is close to being as scratch proof as the DA series then I'm a buyer.

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## CM HUNTER

Great improvement with the black model. This one looks like Damasko made a diver instead of just anyone else.

The date placement doesn't bother me in the slightest. It wouldn't stop me from buying a Fifty Fathoms at over $15,000 either. At least Damasko put it straight and not slanted. Love the unique color keyed date numerals as well. Want to talk about lack of symmetry on a dial, look at one with a missing marker because a date window is there when the lume is charged. Tick for tack compromise really.


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## qcjulle

The black version is definitely a step to the right direction compared to the original sketches. There's still something off about the blue version, I just don't think it fits really well on a tool watch. Would prefer a date at 6 o'clock or in the traditional Damasko 3 o'clock offset with date. And lose the 'Professional' text, everyone already knows that Damasko is for professionals  The 300M rating is fine on the dial in a diver.


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## Penfold36

I definitely like the black one better although it still has some issues. Thanks for posting the pics, Mike!


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## Bender.Folder

Whats the lume grade in the end ? Still C1 ? Hope they go for the blue bgw9 instead.


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## GreatScott

Bender.Folder said:


> Whats the lume grade in the end ? Still C1 ? Hope they go for the blue bgw9 instead.


Can an I get an AMEN!!


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## mucklechumps

Thanks for sharing these photos with us Mike. Does Damasko listen to our feedback? 
I'd love to see a Damasko diver with the A35 movement. Even though I had a negative experience with my A35 based watch I still think it's a cool, cutting edge movement, and for me it's fun knowing that there's something special "under the hood".


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## whoa

Wow! Black one is a huge improvement! 

/insert clever or funny note here\


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## StufflerMike

mucklechumps said:


> Thanks for sharing these photos with us Mike. Does Damasko listen to our feedback?


I am sure he does. However in some technical points his "opinions" differ. Obviously Damasko reads the feedback here and it was Konrad speaking about the Damasko DNA when showing the black dialed DSub1 to me. On the other hand he will not follow some members wanting an ice-hardened diver. To him the U-Boot steel clearly has its advantages over the ice hardened steel in sea water and that's why the case material will not change. This is non-negotiable though. Same is valid for the use of C1 SL. Bezel design is negotiable, I have to admit that I like both bezels, the bezel on the black DSub1 is more DA46ish. The DA46ish bezel might be better to grip but I handled both and a difference is almost non existent.


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## bay

*Damasko's X-Mas news exclusively on WatchUSeek: DSub1 NEW PICTURES (Blue & Black)*

BTW it could just be the angles, but it looks like the lugs are slightly more elongated and slender in the black version as well. Hard to tell what difference that will make without seeing it on the bracelet, but I usually like that.

Mike, did you get a sense for how thick these watches are?

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## StufflerMike

*Re: Damasko's X-Mas news exclusively on WatchUSeek: DSub1 NEW PICTURES (Blue & Black)*

14, 15 mm. Does not feel different to a -say- DA46. That being said both do feel to be heavier.


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## TheTitusFactor

The black diver is a great improvement over the blue one! If Damasko can upgrade their lume to the same level as other divers in the price range, then it would be difficult to choose other divers over this one.


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## blurred

The black dial is looking really good!


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## hwa

Really liking that Black Sub1. The case has gorgeous lines, much more elegant than the Blue model. Any word on case size, in terms of width and lug-to-lug? Also, wondering if the Black could be offered in DA38 blue color scheme along with the DA36 yellow... (Here's hoping for a 41mm case!)


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## Dre

I agree with the concensus here, the black dialed one is a huge improvement. It looks like a Damasko. The blue dialed one doesn't, too similar to so many rather generic looking divers. 

I can roll with the date placement, especially when it's well done as it is here. It isn't rotated like on the blue dial one, and small enough to be unobtrusive. Not to mention that it blends in with the dial color as well. 

It reminds me quite a lot of my DA44, but with a few subtle differences to show it's something different.


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## Knoc

Right on for throwing these pics up.
That black piece looks righteous. 
Taking a hard look at this.


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## bay

*Re: Damasko's X-Mas news exclusively on WatchUSeek: DSub1 NEW PICTURES (Blue & Black)*



stuffler said:


> 14, 15 mm. Does not feel different to a -say- DA46. That being said both do feel to be heavier.


Thanks. Hopefully it's closer to 14! Tough for me personally to bond with non-chronograph watches that are >14mm.


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## Iandk

stuffler said:


> I am sure he does. However in some technical points his "opinions" differ. Obviously Damasko reads the feedback here and it was Konrad speaking about the Damasko DNA when showing the black dialed DSub1 to me. On the other hand he will not follow some members wanting an ice-hardened diver. To him the U-Boot steel clearly has its advantages over the ice hardened steel in sea water and that's why the case material will not change. This is non-negotiable though. Same is valid for the use of C1 SL. Bezel design is negotiable, I have to admit that I like both bezels, the bezel on the black DSub1 is more DA46ish. The DA46ish bezel might be better to grip but I handled both and a difference is almost non existent.


I can understand the U-Boat steel, if the primary concern here is corrosion resistance rather than scratch resistance, and since Damasko has always mostly been a 'tool watch' in my mind, so I can agree with that.

Hardening a steel requires the steel to have carbon in it, however carbon has a tendency to react with chromium (which is added for corrosion resistance), forming soft chromium carbides which don't help the corrosion resistance or properties of the steel. Hence the use of nitrogen instead (in addition to carbon) for hardening in some more recent steel formulations, like in Cronidur 30 which is rumored to be what's in the hardened Damasko cases, but it's still a compromise on both ends of hardness vs. corrosion resistance.

Submarine steel is going to be pretty low carbon content for that reason (HY-80 and HY-100 have no more than 0.2%; though compare 316L's 0.0-0.03% carbon), so you wouldn't really be able to harden it, aside from doing a case-hardening surface treatment. That said, it'll be a tough steel, good yield strength, and all those things that probably don't matter for a watch anyways, but will likely have roughly the same scratch resistance as regular 316L

(Hang around some knifemaking forums and you'll hear enough about metallurgy to make your head spin, about what would be best for a kitchen knife, where you really do have to worry about hardness for keeping the knife sharp, and corrosion resistance from a wet/acidic environment...)


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## StufflerMike

As already stated, there is a surface hardening with the DSub1.

All depends on the features of the particular U-Boot steel since there is not only one. Usually it is 300 - 350 HV, the 316l stainless steel being 190 HV. Usually kolsterizing U-Boot steel can get up the hardeness to +/- 1500 HV. 

As far as I understood Damasko uses two different U-Boot steels, one for case and clasp, another one for the crown.


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## Iandk

Ahh, thanks, I missed the surface hardening part somehow.


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## GreatScott

stuffler said:


> I am sure he does. However in some technical points his "opinions" differ. Obviously Damasko reads the feedback here and it was Konrad speaking about the Damasko DNA when showing the black dialed DSub1 to me. On the other hand he will not follow some members wanting an ice-hardened diver. To him the U-Boot steel clearly has its advantages over the ice hardened steel in sea water and that's why the case material will not change. This is non-negotiable though. Same is valid for the use of C1 SL. Bezel design is negotiable, I have to admit that I like both bezels, the bezel on the black DSub1 is more DA46ish. The DA46ish bezel might be better to grip but I handled both and a difference is almost non existent.


Mike, did you say that it is going to be C1 SL? If so, what are the advantages versus the brighter SL's especially while diving?


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## Myron

Loving the black-dialed watch. I can't wait to see the final production models.

Myron


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## WatchOutChicago

I'm loving the black dial version and will probably jump on it when available. With that said, I hope they up the lume a bit on these. I've owned 3 Damaskos and haven't been pleased with the lume on any of them. Hopefully this is fixed with the diver!


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## slowbeat

Thanks for the pictures. I like the progress on the DSub. I agree the black dial version aligns more with the Damasko DNA, and it should lose the crosshair to make the dial cleaner especially for a diver watch. Personally I like the blue dial version as it is different from their existing lineup.

I will also prefer as mentioned before that they should lose the "Professional" instead either they should move the date window to the six o'oclok with 300m or they should put the model name with 300m. Also, I will like the crown to be positioned on the 10 o'clock instead of the 4 o'clock. I hope they improve the lume as compared to their existing models.

I'm sorry if it was mentioned before, does anyone knows if the DSub1 will have an in-house movement or ETA? And the strap options?

I also wonder if there is going to be a Black Damest version.


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## slowbeat

Thanks for the pictures. I like the progress on the DSub1. I agree the black dial version aligns more with the Damasko DNA, and it should lose the crosshair to make the dial cleaner especially for a diver watch. Personally I like the blue dial version as it is different from their existing lineup.

I will also prefer as mentioned before that they should lose the "Professional" instead either they should move the date window to the six o'oclok with "300m", or they should put the model name, "DSub1", with "300m". Also, I will like the crown to be positioned on the 10 o'clock instead of the 4 o'clock. I hope they improve the lume as compared to their existing models.

I'm sorry if it was mentioned before, does anyone knows if the DSub1 will have an in-house movement or ETA? And the strap options?

I also wonder if there is going to be a Black Damest version.


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## StufflerMike

Eta 2824. Strap options will be decided at the proper time. The blue dialed DSUB1 will be available with Hirsch Prefssional on orange and a Hirsch Robby as shown at Munichtime. i am sure there will be rubber strap as well fitted with the new Damasko clasp.


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## slowbeat

Thanks Mike. Sorry for the double post.


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## fishoop

I like every model in Damasko's current line up. But this one is still missing the mark for me. I think the changes made to the black dial model are an improvement, the cross hair in particular is a welcome addition. 

-The crown is certainly too large. 
-The logo placement is throwing me off.
-The date feels lost, or almost like an afterthought. The day/date design on most current Damasko models is so unique and pleasing. I'd like to see this one with the traditional day/date placement. Or just date.
-I don't like how the second hand has color on the "back" of it. Other Damasko second hands have a black "back", which I think looks much better.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts!

After thinking and staring at it a bit longer, I think the logo placement is the biggest issue I have.


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## commanche

Please please let it be C3 or BGW9 lume instead if crappy C1 in their current lineup


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## ehansen

commanche said:


> Please please let it be C3 or BGW9 lume instead if crappy C1 in their current lineup


Or even just another few coats of C3. It's a shame that every other aspect of Damasko is over engineered, except the lume always underwhelms.

One man's opinion...

Eric


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## RKP

What size will it be! 
I love the black one as far as the design goes. 
- Maybe move the date to 6, or no date at all. 
- definitely use better lume. 
- hopefully 2824 will help you keep the thickness down under 14. 
- keep the hair line! 
- hopeful to see the da38 blue on some of the future designs. I love it on my watch and yellow is just too much for me. 
- keep up the good work 


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## m102486

both looks good but I'm not liking the bottom yellow parts of the hands. I'd prefer something like the DA36 with black ends to the hands.


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## smittya

Thanks for sharing and Happy New Year!!

Personally, I love the addition of the cross hairs. I miss the day date and logo on the right. Like both bezels.

Case steel and crown placement make sense for a "Professional" as will quality and placement of the lume.

Notice that if you take away some of the yellow... it doesn't seem as dangerous (think stinging insect or road sign)


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## kit7

Thanks Mike, black dial and cross hairs are a big improvement. Is the bezel 60 or 120 clicks?


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## ehansen

kit7 said:


> Thanks Mike, black dial and cross hairs are a big improvement. Is the bezel 60 or 120 clicks?


And is it uni or bidirectional? I can't imagine it's bidirectional (as a diver), though this would be a first for them.

(Sorry if this was already answered....)

Eric


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## StufflerMike

ehansen said:


> And is it uni or bidirectional? I can't imagine it's bidirectional (as a diver), though this would be a first for them.
> 
> (Sorry if this was already answered....)
> 
> Eric


Hi Eric,

Don't know if this was already mentioned. The bezel is uni-directional.


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## StufflerMike

kit7 said:


> Thanks Mike, black dial and cross hairs are a big improvement. Is the bezel 60 or 120 clicks?


Konrad Damasko is back from a short vacation so I had the chance to get him on the phone. 60 it is.


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## hwa

Anybody know the provenance of the UBoat steel?


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## StufflerMike

ThyssenKrupp


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## hwa

stuffler said:


> ThyssenKrupp


Thanks, but whats that mean? New manufacture, or recycled?

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## StufflerMike

You really thought that U-Boot steel used by Damasko is recycled from old ships . Nope. Not by Sinn, not by Damasko either. It is out of current production like

1.3813	X 40 Mn Cr N 19
1.3952	X 2 Cr Ni Mo N 18-14-3
1.3964	X 2 Cr Ni Mn Mo N Nb 21-16-5-3
1.3974	X 2 Cr Ni Mn Mo N Nb 23-17-6-3

We are not talking about Romain Jerome watches here.


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## ehansen

Thanks for the info Mike. You're the closest thing Damasko has to an ambassador.


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## bay

Was thinking about this today. Any updates on timing?


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## nepatriot

No dimensions? Maybe I missed that? Hopefully Damasko will start to include proper (complete) dimensions for their watches soon: a big part of their brand proposition is precision engineered "tool" watches. Omitting the most important measurement to determine the proper fit of a watch is inexcusable. 

What is the movement?


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## StufflerMike

nepatriot said:


> No dimensions? Maybe I missed that?


Yes, you missed that. For your convenience: The case diamet is 42mm (= 43mm with the bezel) With a height of 12.8mm and a lug width of 22mm.



> Hopefully Damasko will start to include proper (complete) dimensions for their watches soon: a big part of their brand proposition is precision engineered "tool" watches. Omitting the most important measurement to determine the proper fit of a watch is inexcusable.


Damasko did not omit anything. You will get the complete DSUb1 specs when the watch os available. However, all data are already to be found on this forum. You just need to read the DSub1 related threads.



> What is the movement?


As already mentioned on this and other fora: ETA 2824-2. Here's a quote from a former post



> .....The watch is equipped with an elaboré grade ETA 2824-2 and is rated wr up to 300M. The sapphire crystal is slightly domed and ar-coated on the outside and inside The bezel is easy to grip and operate. The current model features a blue dial, other colours will be available lateron.......


Happy reading.


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## nepatriot

stuffler said:


> Yes, you missed that. For your convenience: The case diamet is 42mm (= 43mm with the bezel) With a height of 12.8mm and a lug width of 22mm.
> 
> Damasko did not omit anything. You will get the complete DSUb1 specs when the watch os available. However, all data are already to be found on this forum. You just need to read the DSub1 related threads.
> 
> As already mentioned on this and other fora: ETA 2824-2. Here's a quote from a former post
> 
> Happy reading.


Thanks very much! I scrolled through but must have missed it.

But the specs are not complete. Same as on their web site. They are missing case length. That's an inconceivable omission, IMHO, for the Damasko's brand positioning. L x W x H. Basic dimensions for any object. Case length is the key measurement for how a watch will fit across the wrist, where the lug tips will sit.

Hopefully they correct this. Given the way Damasko positions themselves, when it comes to specs, they should be more aligned with Eddie's Time Factors watch site.


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## StufflerMike

They will correct this and will also mention the l2l as part of the technical specs, maybe added by a draft depicting case diameter, height, l2l, lug width. Might go into effect with the next web site up-date which is already in the pipeline.


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## StufflerMike

bay said:


> Was thinking about this today. Any updates on timing?


The black dialed will come out first (end of March/April). Watch out for AD announcement. The blue DSub will be available later this year (summer/autumn).


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## nepatriot

stuffler said:


> They will correct this and will also mention the l2l as part of the technical specs, maybe added by a draft depicting case diameter, height, l2l, lug width. Might go into effect with the next web site up-date which is already in the pipeline.


Excellent, thanks!

It's a great marketing move for this brand I believe, as a meticulously engineered "tool" type watch. I suspect the customer demographics skews towards people who appreciate precision. And the info is very important for a company that depends on on-line sales for a reasonable share of its business, as this helps the on-line shopper get a real good idea of the fit.

Now, it this watch fits me, I have have to decide if its worth a few nights in the dog house...


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## voiceman

Hmmm, been thinking about picking up a new Dive watch and, since I have been very impressed with my DA-35, perhaps I will wait for one of these to become available. Thanks for all the info and updates, Mike.


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## Buellrider

Yep, what voice man said. I am glad to hear the black dialed one will be available first.


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## Dive watch lover

yup, definitely interested in the black dial. I just hope they don't keep the yellow hubs of the hour and minute hands. or the arrow on the seconds hand. just looks odd.

but what has me more puzzled is the mention that the two lower grades of the 2824 do not use incabloc. In all the articles I've read, I've never heard that. Disappointing. I just wonder how good the 'lower' grade of shock protection is....


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## StufflerMike

From a former post by lysanderxiii



> .....The higher grade come with the Incabloc as standard, the lower grades have Etachoc as standard, but a manufacturer can order Incabloc on the lower Standard and Elabore grades.
> 
> There is little or no difference in the shock resisting qualities of the two systems. The only real difference is the anti-shock spring in the Incabloc is captive and it is very much easier to work with/service.


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## iim7v7im7

Perhaps Damasko is unaware that the color yellow shifts to appear as an off white ~>10 meters of water. While handsome in its embodiment not a good choice for a functioning dive watch. Red shifts first ~>5 meters, and orange ~>8 meters. Blue, white and black all remain true in recreational depths <40 meters.

Food for thought...


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## Dive watch lover

thanks, Mike. I guess I missed the second part of that statement. just thinking out loud, I wonder how many mfg use the incabloc on the lower grades. seriously, I have heard of incabloc a zillion times, but I have never heard of etachoc.



stuffler said:


> From a former post by lysanderxiii


_There is little or no difference in the shock resisting qualities of the two systems. The only real difference is the anti-shock spring in the Incabloc is captive and it is very much easier to work with/service.
_


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## jonobailey

Any update on this and the DK105?


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## StufflerMike

jonobailey said:


> Any update on this and the DK105?


No. Still watch.de is the only dealer offering the DK 105 with a delivery time of 10 days. I doubt he would be able to accomplish.


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## scottconn170

I actually like the blue dial with orange accents a lot.. 


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## ldo123

stuffler said:


> The black dialed will come out first (end of March/April). Watch out for AD announcement. The blue DSub will be available later this year (summer/autumn).


Mike, it's June 2017 and still no sign of the DSub on any of the official Damasko sites.

Is there a realistic timeline available, as to when the DSub will be released, or will this be an equally sad story as the infamous project called "DC86"?


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