# Spartan Sport Wrist HR Or Fenix 5



## bcalvanese

I returned my Spartan Ultra because I wanted to check out either the Spartan Sport Wrist HR or the Fenix 5.

My experience with the fenix 3 and the fenix 3 HR have been troublesome over the last couple years. Many software issues and inconsistencies has made it so I could not trust using them.

My experience with Suunto has been much better. I have an A3P and had the SSU for enough time to know that they are more accurate and dependable. They also work every time I use them.

I like the features of the Garmins, but many of them don't seem to work right.

I was hoping the Fenix 5 would be different, but looking at forums I see the start of all the same types of issues that you see on the Garmin forums for every device they sell...

this don't work... that don't work... and so on...

I am watching the forums closely before making a decision, but leaning more toward the Spartan Sport Wrist HR when it becomes available at the end of this month.

I would like to hear other opinions as well.


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## Egika

My experience with Garmin devices has been the same. Lots of firmware flaws that are not resolved...
Now without knowing your application and requirements for a training watch it's difficult to give a recommendation.
What's your use case? Or are you just looking for the newest gadget out there? (Trading your SSU and A3P in looks like the latter...)


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## bcalvanese

Egika said:


> My experience with Garmin devices has been the same. Lots of firmware flaws that are not resolved...
> Now without knowing your application and requirements for a training watch it's difficult to give a recommendation.
> What's your use case? Or are you just looking for the newest gadget out there? (Trading your SSU and A3P in looks like the latter...)


I still have my A3P, and I think I jumped the gun a little too soon on the SSU. I probably should have waited for the Sport with the wrist HR and the Fenix 5 to come out first.

I do mostly cardio, and mainly power walking/running/trail running. I like having the wrist HR if it is accurate enough for what I do. I have high hopes for the valencell sensor on the new Spartan Sport.

I think a major problem for Garmin is that they make their devices in one country, and develop the software in multiple countries. I am a software developer and my company has development teams in other countries. There are always communication issues, and every time I do a production release there are always issues because of it.

I may be wrong but I think Suunto makes their devices and develops their software in Finland. If that's the case, they have the advantage on better quality and it shows in their products.

I think I am leaning toward less bells and whistles that all work rather then more bells and whistles that only half work. When Garmin added the "dog tracker" to the fenix it pissed a lot of people off...


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## martowl

bcalvanese said:


> I returned my Spartan Ultra because I wanted to check out either the Spartan Sport Wrist HR or the Fenix 5.
> 
> My experience with the fenix 3 and the fenix 3 HR have been troublesome over the last couple years. Many software issues and inconsistencies has made it so I could not trust using them.
> 
> My experience with Suunto has been much better. I have an A3P and had the SSU for enough time to know that they are more accurate and dependable. They also work every time I use them.
> 
> I like the features of the Garmins, but many of them don't seem to work right.
> 
> I was hoping the Fenix 5 would be different, but looking at forums I see the start of all the same types of issues that you see on the Garmin forums for every device they sell...
> 
> this don't work... that don't work... and so on...
> 
> I am watching the forums closely before making a decision, but leaning more toward the Spartan Sport Wrist HR when it becomes available at the end of this month.
> 
> I would like to hear other opinions as well.


Wow, kinda surprised you returned the SSU. There is a major firmware update coming with some great features. It should put the SSU ahead of the A3P. I think OHR is far less useful than most think. First, it simply is not as accurate as a chest strap as it measures blood flow and not electrical activity. Second, if running power meters do become mainstream and I think they will, HR training will become less important. Although I wear an HR strap it is mainly for recording as either power or RPE work great for me. The SSU has a lot of advantages including the barometer and much longer battery life. Check the SSWHR specs, there is a substantial hit on battery life and it is thicker than the Sport model. Since you are waiting, the fenix 5 will be out soon, see how folks react. Fellrnr already said he did not realize how nice the Spartan screen was until he got the fenix5 a day or two ago.


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## gousias

Which are exactly the features of upcoming update? I don't see them on their website. Also, how do consider that SSU will pass A3P? A last question about power meters, any info for rookies?


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## bruceames

If the Sport Wrist HR is close to the accuracy as the Scosche armband, then I think it'll be a game changer. It's no substitute for the chest strap if you care about PTE though, or other metrics that depend on R-R data. But you can always wear a chest strap on those days you want to get PTE/EPOC data from the watch. I do only two days a week of "hard" exercise, the other days easy. On the hard days I strive for one workout with over 3.0 PTE and the other day close or over 4.0 PTE. The other days I could probably be just fine with an optical reader (assuming it's almost as accurate as a chest strap). It would be nice not to hassle with the chest strap on some days.

Power is an up and coming metric, but it has it's limitations too and it will never tell you what your physiological load is. It's a nice compliment as a monitor for grade adjusted pace, but for me it could never replace HR. RPE is very useful and I use that as well, but I wouldn't depend on that and exclude HR. I think you need to monitor both as either one alone cannot be fully trusted all the time. 


The Sport Wrist has its drawbacks as mentioned above, so I wouldn't want to use it where I run in a hilly trail since as it doesn't have a barometer (I think it should, considering the price) it will not give as accurate total ascent/descent data (or vertical speed) as the SSU which uses FusedAlti. Also for longer moves like hikes the shorter battery life might come into play.


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## martowl

gousias said:


> Which are exactly the features of upcoming update? I don't see them on their website. Also, how do consider that SSU will pass A3P? A last question about power meters, any info for rookies?


The photos of what will be on the firmware update you can find on the Spartan OHR site but at a minimum include interval training with screens far better than the Ambit, route alititude profile and routes with POI. The functionality will be equal to or better than A3P as the screen information is superior. I suspect the next update will be "new" improvements that are not on the Ambit series. The negatives are still the shorter battery life but other than that, I am quite happy with mine. What the Ambit does not have are real time power graphs that I get on the SSU without having to set up a workout.


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## Egika

gousias said:


> Which are exactly the features of upcoming update? I don't see them on their website. Also, how do consider that SSU will pass A3P? A last question about power meters, any info for rookies?


Upcoming new features known are
- POI navigation
- Interval training
- Route altitude profile navigation
- Sport mode customization (2nd part - up to 7 fields of data)
- more graphs (HR, speed, altitude)


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## ixman

After being one of the first to own a Spartan Ultra I've decided to return mine and return to A3P. 
As of last week I'm also the owner of the Fenix 5 and so far after 5 runs I can say that I'm very pleased with it.
The GPS is much much better than my previous SSU(I've returned it about two months ago so I didn't had the latest firmware)
Also there's no lag in the Fenix, anywhere. The only issue is that currently doesn't support Stryd footpod and the step counter is way off.
The wrist heart monitor is ok but not great compared to the classic chest strap.
On my usual route at least with the Fenix 5 I'm not running on water or over housing developments anymore 
Hope this helps.


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## PTBC

ixman said:


> After being one of the first to own a Spartan Ultra I've decided to return mine and return to A3P.
> As of last week I'm also the owner of the Fenix 5 and so far after 5 runs I can say that I'm very pleased with it.
> The GPS is much much better than my previous SSU(I've returned it about two months ago so I didn't had the latest firmware)
> Also there's no lag in the Fenix, anywhere. The only issue is that currently doesn't support Stryd footpod and the step counter is way off.
> The wrist heart monitor is ok but not great compared to the classic chest strap.
> On my usual route at least with the Fenix 5 I'm not running on water or over housing developments anymore
> Hope this helps.


The DC rainmaker review on the GPS section it looks like he also had Spartan Sport Wrist HR he was testing as well, he seemed OK with the Fenix performance.


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## bruceames

PTBC said:


> The DC rainmaker review on the GPS section it looks like he also had Spartan Sport Wrist HR he was testing as well, *he seemed OK with the Fenix performance*.


One should keep in mind though that he does have a tendency to be partial to that brand.


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## martowl

bruceames said:


> One should keep in mind though that he does have a tendency to be partial to that brand.


I think a better idea of likes/dislikes and problems with the fenix 5 series will be to read the Garmin forums...there are already some quite unhappy with the GPS performance, which they say is no better than the fenix3, some say it is a bit better but I did not read any posts to say wow GPS perfect. Fellrnr should have data for his GPS chart soon too, which is unbiased at all IMHO.


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## bcalvanese

bruceames said:


> One should keep in mind though that he does have a tendency to be partial to that brand.


Agreed. Him and RIZKNOWS always give the fenix line better reviews than the Suunto IMO, but I think their reviews are based more on features than consistency and reliability.


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## bcalvanese

martowl said:


> I think a better idea of likes/dislikes and problems with the fenix 5 series will be to read the Garmin forums...there are already some quite unhappy with the GPS performance, which they say is no better than the fenix3, some say it is a bit better but I did not read any posts to say wow GPS perfect. Fellrnr should have data for his GPS chart soon too, which is unbiased at all IMHO.


100% agree.

I have owned many Garmin devices and have had issues with all of them, and they have all had the same inconsitencies from one workout to the next. If you look at any of the Garmin forums for any device they make you will see nothing but issues, and it looks like the new fenix 5 forums are already following that same pattern.


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## bcalvanese

ixman said:


> After being one of the first to own a Spartan Ultra I've decided to return mine and return to A3P.
> As of last week I'm also the owner of the Fenix 5 and so far after 5 runs I can say that I'm very pleased with it.
> The GPS is much much better than my previous SSU(I've returned it about two months ago so I didn't had the latest firmware)
> Also there's no lag in the Fenix, anywhere. The only issue is that currently doesn't support Stryd footpod and the step counter is way off.
> The wrist heart monitor is ok but not great compared to the classic chest strap.
> On my usual route at least with the Fenix 5 I'm not running on water or over housing developments anymore
> Hope this helps.


I tried the Spartan when it first came out too and returned it shortly after for the same reasons. I tried it again after the last update and loved it.

My experience with Garmin has been not too good. Had nothing but issues with the F3 and thought the F3HR would have fixed all the issues, but it just seemed to carry them oven and even add more issues. It has lost entire workouts due to rebooting while saving, and that is a deal breaker for me. They seemed to work good for a while, and then, out of nowhere, just freak out and not work right.

I have just grown not to trust them over time, and it got to the point that I felt like I had to wear 2 devices in case the F3HR freaked out again.


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## bcalvanese

martowl said:


> Wow, kinda surprised you returned the SSU. There is a major firmware update coming with some great features. It should put the SSU ahead of the A3P. I think OHR is far less useful than most think. First, it simply is not as accurate as a chest strap as it measures blood flow and not electrical activity. Second, if running power meters do become mainstream and I think they will, HR training will become less important. Although I wear an HR strap it is mainly for recording as either power or RPE work great for me. The SSU has a lot of advantages including the barometer and much longer battery life. Check the SSWHR specs, there is a substantial hit on battery life and it is thicker than the Sport model. Since you are waiting, the fenix 5 will be out soon, see how folks react. Fellrnr already said he did not realize how nice the Spartan screen was until he got the fenix5 a day or two ago.


I did compare the specs. I like the notion of all day HR and I am hoping that the OHR is at least or more accurate than the F3HR, and works consistently. I only work out at most 2 to 3 hours, so I don't need the battery to last through an ultra marathon. I also don't have any mountains near me so I think GPS altitude would be fine for me.

As far as the F5 goes, I have grown not to be able to count on the fenix line over the years, and I see the new F5 forums are filling up with issues the same as all the other Garmin forums do.


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## bcalvanese

Well, I took a chance and pulled the trigger on the Spartan Sport Wrist HR in all black.

I ordered it from the Suunto website and paid for the 1 day shipping, so I should get it this Friday.

It came down to either getting another Spartan Ultra or the Spartan Sport Wrist HR. Following the Garmin forums over the past week has only told me that the F5 seems to be headed in the same direction as their other products, and I don't want to go through yet another year of issues that carry over from the previous device and never seem to get resolved.

The Spartan Sport Wrist HR is new and exiting so I went with it, and am fairly confident that the wrist HR will be accurate enough for the stuff I do, and I do like the all day heart rate monitoring as well.

Thank you all for your input, and I think I am becoming a happy Suunto customer.


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## gousias

Is it possible to order from any country or specific ones directly to SUUNTO?


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## sb029111

bruceames said:


> If the Sport Wrist HR is close to the accuracy as the Scosche armband, then I think it'll be a game changer. It's no substitute for the chest strap if you care about PTE though, or other metrics that depend on R-R data. But you can always wear a chest strap on those days you want to get PTE/EPOC data from the watch. I do only two days a week of "hard" exercise, the other days easy. On the hard days I strive for one workout with over 3.0 PTE and the other day close or over 4.0 PTE. The other days I could probably be just fine with an optical reader (assuming it's almost as accurate as a chest strap). It would be nice not to hassle with the chest strap on some days.


Exactly my feelings. I've had Garmins 910, F3, (2) F3HR, and none were as great as I was led to believe. The F3 line lacks good consistent GPS tracks, and IMHO, the Garmin Connect vs. Movescount is a farce. I love the metrics Suunto has, especially EPOC, and Training Effect. I have had several Suuntos over the years, starting with a T6D, Ambit 2, Ambit 3, and now the SSU, and hopefully, around next week sometime, the Sport WHR. I intend to use the chest strap for the intervals, and circuit training, but for a rather mild "Silver Sneakers" (read, old people) class, and a couple of Yoga classes, the WHR is fine. I am looking forward to more accurate daily calorie counts from the WHR, and I too own a Scosche Rhythm + armband, and found it's very nearly as accurate as the SSU/Chest strap combination, only lacking valid R-R data.
One note, even with the HRM-Run chest strap from Garmin, and the F3HR, trying to import the .FIT file into a 3rd party R-R program, or even Firstbeat fails. I suppose Garmins idea of the .FIT specification differs just enough to be proprietary.
Looking forward to testing the two watches together.. (SSU and the SPORT HR). I'll eventually sell one, but it's going to be fun comparing them.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

gousias said:


> Is it possible to order from any country or specific ones directly to SUUNTO?


"Suunto Webshop is currently available for the following countries: Austria, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Norway, Poland, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, UK, and US."


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## gousias

So, if not in one of these, unable to proceed in purchase! I asked the local representative and his answer was that I should ask a shop, then after asking on the latter the answer was to ask the first! Awesome!!!


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## bcalvanese

Someone posted a test of the OHR...


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## morey000

DCRainmaker indicated in his facebook live talk, that the upcoming March 31st firmware update for the whole Spartan line should be very good. 
I haven't owned either, but given my experience with the F3HR- is it's a bit clunky and so many of the advanced features- don't really work worth a damn or are irrelevant. 

Personally, I'd go with the Spartan Sport HR for the real time swim HR alone. 

the Fenix is good if you like a thousand choices of watch faces. And the selection of apps is useful. so- all depends on your needs. If the native features of the watch do everything you need, then the displays and such of the Spartan- just look cooler.


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## bcalvanese

Just got an email from Suunto that my Spartan Sport Wrist HR shipped with a tracking number. I paid extra for next day air so I wonder if it will be here tomorrow.

Can't wait!


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## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> Just got an email from Suunto that my Spartan Sport Wrist HR shipped with a tracking number. I paid extra for next day air so I wonder if it will be here tomorrow.
> 
> Can't wait!


Yep, got the same E-mail, mine's coming 2 day air, supposed to be here by EOD Thursday. I think one of the first things I'm going to do is wear both, the SSU, with the chest strap, and the SSHR, and compare the heart rate accuracy. That will be fun, and then will probably throw the Ultra up for sale on E-bay, or the Run4IQ for sale thing on Facebook.
Can't wait, but I suppose I will have to!


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## bcalvanese

sb029111 said:


> Yep, got the same E-mail, mine's coming 2 day air, supposed to be here by EOD Thursday. I think one of the first things I'm going to do is wear both, the SSU, with the chest strap, and the SSHR, and compare the heart rate accuracy. That will be fun, and then will probably throw the Ultra up for sale on E-bay, or the Run4IQ for sale thing on Facebook.
> Can't wait, but I suppose I will have to!


Just got mine about an hour ago. Set it all up and charging it now. Still on 1.7.30 but I'll probably get the update tomorrow.

I can't wait to see how the OHR works. Later today I will do a move and test it out.


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## bcalvanese

First move with my Spartan Sport Wrist HR.

bcalvanese's 0:44 h Trail running Move

I used the OHR and it seemed to do very well.


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## user_none

Does anyone know if the Spartan Sport Wrist HR is supposed to do 24/7 HR monitoring?


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## bcalvanese

user_none said:


> Does anyone know if the Spartan Sport Wrist HR is supposed to do 24/7 HR monitoring?


Yes. i think it will be in tomorrows update.


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## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> First move with my Spartan Sport Wrist HR.
> 
> bcalvanese's 0:44 h Trail running Move
> 
> I used the OHR and it seemed to do very well.


Looks good, I think I'm gonna be real happy tomorrow..


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## gousias

Waiting with great anxiety for your reviews here!


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## bcalvanese

Well, I returned the Spartan Sport Wrist HR.

I was not happy with the battery performance. I did a move that was not even an hour and a half and the battery went from 100% to 69%. It charges up pretty quickly, but does not seem like it will last more than a few days between charges.

The OHR seems to be pretty accurate overall, but it spiked a few times while on the HR screen and lost sections on the 12 hour HR screen.

Anyway, I was looking at REI today and noticed that a store about 30 or so miles from me had a fenix 5 in stock. Not the 5X or the 5S, but the 5 (non sapphire). I read DC Rainmakers review on the fenix 5 and he gave it a very good review, so I decided to go pick it up and give it a try. They have a 1 year return policy so I can always return it to the store if I'm not happy with it.

Looking at the specs, I am thinking now that the 5 is the better choice because it has the best battery life out of all three of the 5 series devices, and even though it's smaller than the 5X, the screen size is exactly the same. The only thing it does not have that the 5X does is the maps, and I'm really not all that excited about maps on a watch.

So far I did 1 activity with it...

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1656905991

It seemed to do very well. Good GPS track, good OHR. I have had a lot of problems with my fenx 3 HR and was/am very skeptical about the fenix line. Maybe the fenix 5 will change my mind...

Only time will tell.


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## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> Well, I returned the Spartan Sport Wrist HR.
> 
> I was not happy with the battery performance. I did a move that was not even an hour and a half and the battery went from 100% to 69%. It charges up pretty quickly, but does not seem like it will last more than a few days between charges.
> 
> The OHR seems to be pretty accurate overall, but it spiked a few times while on the HR screen and lost sections on the 12 hour HR screen.
> 
> Anyway, I was looking at REI today and noticed that a store about 30 or so miles from me had a fenix 5 in stock. Not the 5X or the 5S, but the 5 (non sapphire). I read DC Rainmakers review on the fenix 5 and he gave it a very good review, so I decided to go pick it up and give it a try. They have a 1 year return policy so I can always return it to the store if I'm not happy with it.
> 
> Looking at the specs, I am thinking now that the 5 is the better choice because it has the best battery life out of all three of the 5 series devices, and even though it's smaller than the 5X, the screen size is exactly the same. The only thing it does not have that the 5X does is the maps, and I'm really not all that excited about maps on a watch.
> 
> So far I did 1 activity with it...
> 
> https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1656905991
> 
> It seemed to do very well. Good GPS track, good OHR. I have had a lot of problems with my fenx 3 HR and was/am very skeptical about the fenix line. Maybe the fenix 5 will change my mind...
> 
> Only time will tell.


I did a couple of activities today with the WHR, and to be honest, it spiked on the treadmill, (said I was right at my max HR, and I wasn't even breathing hard), then, on a circuit course, it said I was at 75-80 BPM, while I was puffing like a train, and sweating like a dog. I think I'll give it a couple more tries, and like you, I'm not excited about the battery life, but so far, I'm at about 3 days, and have 25% left. I'm going to let it run down to <5%, and charge it and see what happens. I had a fenix 3 HR, and it did okay, the Heart rate seemed accurate, GPS tracks weren't as good as my Spartan Ultra, but "acceptable", but I really do like the metrics on Movescount vs. Garmin connect. For me, EPOC, and actual R-R data is important to see what I'm doing to my heart, and to myself. Metrics on Garmin Connect for me, leave a bit to be desired. I sent a support request just now, and we'll see what happens, I hinted that I really wanted all day HR, and Sleep metrics, along with at least a fairly accurate HR, so we'll see what they say. If not, I may head over to REI and take advantage of their 1 year return policy. That's what I did with the F3HR, bought it there, and returned it when I bough the Spartan Ultra.
Keep informed here about your "luck" with the Garmin F5, I'm interested.
Steve


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## gousias

Wow! I wasn't expecting this, thought that it had a good hr measure system and that battery would be descent, I was just ready to go and pick it up from a store today but I feel confused now. Could all these be issues of firmware and possibly corrected at a future firmware update, hopefully the nearest one?


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## Egika

Yes. Could... But it just looks like Suunto is going down the Garmin path releasing buggy products and firmwares...
It's a pity...


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## gousias

I thought that dcrainmaker would post an extended testing video on this watch?


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## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> Well, I returned the Spartan Sport Wrist HR.
> 
> I was not happy with the battery performance. I did a move that was not even an hour and a half and the battery went from 100% to 69%. It charges up pretty quickly, but does not seem like it will last more than a few days between charges.
> 
> Only time will tell.


I was just thinking about what you said up there. I too had an "anolomy" when I first charged the watch, in fact, I mentioned it to Andrew in the "Run4IQ-Suunto Talks" in Facebook: Begin Quote:
"Not about intervals, but I received my SSWHR yesterday, set it up, and charged fully. Charge completed about 3PM. At bedtime, I noticed the charge remaining was 70%, so I wondered, then thought that it might have been all the time I was syncing, setting up the activities, and generally playing with the watch. This morning, I checked, and the charge was at 64%. Not really happy with this apparent rapid decline, I decided to charge it up again, and give it a "normal" time to discharge. I started charging, and in about 30-40 minutes it went from 64% to 68%. I left it for about another 1/2 hour, and it's at 100%! I am wondering if this is a bug, if my watch needs looked at, or if I've been into the "happy weed"? Anyone else seen this? Sport WHR, updated to v1.8.26 upon receipt."

Andrew replied to not worry about the percentage drops that are small, wait, and charge fully. Well, I did that, and now am on my 4th day on the same charge, and I've done like 7 or 8 activites, to even include the 1/2 hour GPS-Best walk to calibrate my footpod. I'm at 25% now, and will probably have to charge in the morning before my class. I wonder if it's the initial charge that doesn't fully charge, or if it takes a few cycles to reach full capacity. I have to admit that the Ultra didn't do that, but who knows. The battery isn't too bad for what I want it for, I don't do multi-day activities, about the most I do is a couple or 3 hours on a bike, with the GPS, and it will surely do that.


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## sb029111

gousias said:


> Wow! I wasn't expecting this, thought that it had a good hr measure system and that battery would be descent, I was just ready to go and pick it up from a store today but I feel confused now. Could all these be issues of firmware and possibly corrected at a future firmware update, hopefully the nearest one?


I may have whined too soon, thinking about it, I've had 5 other activites that have had pretty decent heart rate graphs, and the GPS is excellent, I have to admit that. I think that given the other activities were pretty much spot on for Heart Rate, I think this time it could be because I wasn't wearing the watch correctly. About the battery, see my reply to bcalvanese, I had somewhat the same thing happen to me, but the thing charged right back from about 60% to 100% in less than an hour. Then, I ran it down again, and it took almost 3 hours to fully charge, and now I'm on my 4th day (I received my watch on the 30th), and that includes an outdoor walk to calibrate the footpod with GPS at "Best". I'm going to remain open, I still believe it's a good watch, and I'm sure that Suunto is going to continue to improve. I fleetingly thought about Garmin, (I always do), until I look at their forums, and say "Naw, Suunto is way better", and yes, I realize that the people use the forums to complain, but compair the "Run4IQ-Suunto" and Run4IQ-Garmin" forums in Facebook, (both run by Andrew Nugat), and you'll see that there are many inconsistencies in the Garmin watches also. Go ahead, get the watch, be patient, and if you do have a problem, at least you can expect a reply from Suunto, something I never received from Garmin, other than "do you have your receipt"... Pretty tough if it was a gift. :-(

Here's the links I was talking about"
30 minute walk:
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move149602940

Short Weight Training Move, same day:
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move149630111

Yoga Class:
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move149440467#calendar-month=2017-04

You can see they're pretty decent HR graphs. Now for the "bad" one, (the other one for the same date also has an anolomy)"
http://www.movescount.com/moves/move149967316

So, in general, I think the HR is pretty good for a WHR, it's not a chest strap, but if you need that accuracy, you can always pair one up, and use it rather than the wrist HR.
Steve


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## sb029111

Egika said:


> Yes. Could... But it just looks like Suunto is going down the Garmin path releasing buggy products and firmwares...
> It's a pity...


Bugs are inevitable, but at least Suunto is doing something about it. I've owned many Garmins, and while they're generally "okay", they simply don't have the professional aspect that Suunto does. Take for instance, even with a chest strap, and theoretically measuring R-R levels, the .FIT file will not import into Firstbeat Athlete, the very firm that Garmin says is behind their Training Effect calculations. On the other hand, there's a direct link from Firstbeat to Movescount, and while the WHR model won't import (No valid R-R data with WHR), the chest strap activities import perfectly. Always have. Then, look at how long Garmin has had to get the F3 and F3HR GPS tracks "right", and they still don't compare with my Ultra, or the Sport WHR. Then, there's the Garmin "Support", if you want to use the term loosely. I've had 3 HRM-Run chest straps, and two have been DOA, and I could only get one replaced, because the 2nd was a gift, and even though it had two activities on it, Garmin wouldn't do anything because it was a gift. On my Ambit 3 Peak I had a while back, I stupidly couldn't get the HR Module off the chest strap, (hadn't figured out the "magic move"), so I busted it in two. Broke it on the seam, not the battery part. I asked Suunto if I could buy another, and they said no problem, they sent me one as a warranty replacement. THAT's customer service! I've had about 4 exchanges in the last month and a half with questions about the Ultra, how to do this, or that, etc, and the purchase of the Sport WHR, and every time, I have a well informed, accurate answer (assuming I've given the correct information) within two to three days.
No, Garmin vs. Suunto is a "Ford vs. Chevy" argument, but in my experience, I'd much rather give my money to Suunto than Garmin. of course, as Ray Maker says, "Your mileage may vary"...


----------



## Egika

I always happily spent my money on Suuntos. Starting from the S6 to now owning an SSU.
Actually it's the first times I heard about bugs in Suunto's and never really had any in my T6d for example...


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## gousias

Furthermore I can't say that I'm as much decisive as I was earlier. Especially now that I've read of battery draining! To add some tips for the discussion and to help some of choosing I have focused on the differences among SUUNTO SPARTAN SPORT WRIST HR - GARMIN FENIX 5 - GARMIN 935. Still SSSWHR is on the top of my list. Do you think that the differences could be closed to a future update? What to hope for then?








I am on my way to the store now!


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## gousias

So, any opinions?


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## martowl

gousias said:


> Furthermore I can't say that I'm as much decisive as I was earlier. Especially now that I've read of battery draining! To add some tips for the discussion and to help some of choosing I have focused on the differences among SUUNTO SPARTAN SPORT WRIST HR - GARMIN FENIX 5 - GARMIN 935. Still SSSWHR is on the top of my list. Do you think that the differences could be closed to a future update? What to hope for then?
> I am on my way to the store now!


Ok Folks, I have said this before but will say it again. I have owned Suuntos since the Vector and have a lot of moves on Suuntos. Prior to the Ambit line, I was getting a bit frustrated as the T6c was a bit outdated. So I bought a Garmin, first the round one 400 something, I cannot remember. The altitude measurement was so bad (GPS-based and long ago) that I returned it, bought a 310XT. Besides being ugly as he$$, again the altimeter was terrible, returned, bought a 910XT (this one had a barometric altimeter) and upon a long 26 mile run with 7500' elevation gain, on a 50 foot decline to my house the altimeter was increasing! I stopped and watched myself gain altitude without moving, I returned it. I continued to use my T6c, I still have it and it still works. I know others' opinions and experiences will be different than mine but most of what you listed above that the Spartan does not have is a lot of extras that I personally don't need. How often would you use JumpMaster? Or lighting control? Or bike radar integration?

It is possible that the fenix5 is great and Garmin has squashed most or all of the bugs but in my reading of the forums there appears to be significant battery drain on the 5x (I am not paying attention to the others). I agree that the Spartan launch was not great but my experience with the Ambits (I have had them all and still have my A3P) was very good. I don't expect anything different from the Spartan line. My experience and opinion is that the Spartan will work and will work well with everything that is implemented. Suunto does not want to add features that have bugs, they would rather test first so that most bugs are dealt with prior to upgrades/releases.

For me, I do not need 99% of the extra stuff that the 5x or 5 does, my interest is mainly in the mapping features but I would rather have the Spartan screen and current navigation than the 5x with a screen I probably will find difficult reading (I run without my glasses). I know many of you may not agree but over two decades of training/mountaineering/racing I have had good experiences with Suuntos, great customer experiences (I can go into detail here) and yes, over that time developed some loyalty.

Ask yourself...what do you need? And then get out and move! I'll be doing my tempo training in the snow today...that should prove interesting for traction and using the new interval features on my Spartan.


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## martowl

gousias said:


> Wow! I wasn't expecting this, thought that it had a good hr measure system and that battery would be descent, I was just ready to go and pick it up from a store today but I feel confused now. Could all these be issues of firmware and possibly corrected at a future firmware update, hopefully the nearest one?


Specifically to address battery issues, I think it is too early to judge. In the new firmware you can now reduce the color to save battery and turn the screen off after a number of seconds that you define. If the battery drain is still a problem I imagine Suunto will improve the firmware. Reading through some Garmin forums (I am only reading about the 5x) the users are reporting far less battery capacity than what Garmin stated. Buy from a store that has a good return policy and do your own testing....that is probably the only way you will be sure.


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## sb029111

gousias said:


> So, any opinions?


Yep, but only one. All of the "Yes" up there is pretty impressive, until you start to realistically decide which you will actually use. Me, I don't own, nor can I afford a cycle power meter, so that doesn't matter to me. I don't live near an ocean, so open water swimming is a "eh?". All the pretty watch faces? Well, I picked one, that didn't drain the battery, and that was the one I used on Garmin. I don't have a following on Strava, so the ability to live stream isn't important to me. etc, etc, etc. Running dynamics? Well, my knees don't let me run, so that's no problem, however, in Suunto's defence, they can use the STRYD pod to measure running power, and the Garmin can't.

In other words, like I used to tell people when I worked in the computer field, and was asked which computer should I buy? I would tell them, buy the one that a) you can afford, b) does what you want, and c) has the best reputation, and don't look at another computer advertisement for at least a year, it will just piss you off.. 

Bottom line? Which one has the best reliability, has the "perks" that you will actually use, and (for me) has the most comfortable chest strap.


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## sb029111

Oh, and my battery went from 17% to 14% from about 10pm to this morning at 7, not too bad. I drained it a little last night, by leaving it on the "Heart rate graph" screen for a couple hours, it was constantly updating the heart rate on the 10 minute screen.. my bad. I'm charging it now, and will know much more in a day or so about battery drain under "normal" conditions.


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## sb029111

Lastly, as I stated in an earlier post, the GARMIN .FIT file will NOT import into Firstbeat Athlete, the actual program from Firstbeat Inc in Finland. The result gives 100% error, and no data. Period; I don't know where they can get off saying that it's compatible with FB technologies, (toward the bottom) when the file they produce, even with the chest strap (HRM-RUN) won't import. The files from Suunto (with the chest strap; the only way you can obtain true R-R data which FB relies upon) import directly, in fact, FBA actually has in the import function "Import from Movescount". Just sayin'.


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## gousias

About the auto start stop? Also what about 24/7 tracking?


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## sb029111

gousias said:


> About the auto start stop? Also what about 24/7 tracking?


I generally won't use the auto start/stop, but on one of the first rides with the Ultra, I messed up, and actually started riding (after a stop to eat a power bar) and the auto start didn't start as soon as it should have (in my opinion), so I had a heckuva a speed spike in the route. The 24/7 tracking works, heart rate has a 12 hour graph, and a 10 minute graph, the 12 hour graph shows your heart rate for the last 12 hours as a graph, the 10 minute one shows the last continuous 10 minutes, that's what I left on last night for an hour or so that actually drained the battery. I was worried again about the battery drain, then I realized what I had done, and it was "my bad". How can garmin give you accurate "distance" in the tracking unless you have a foot pod continuously linked and active, or are continuously outdoors? They have an "estimation" based upon your height, so the "distance" travelled in their account of activity tracking in the graph looks good, but is the data accurate? I would much prefer a device with fewer features that will or do work well, rather than a device with 147 features, 136 of which I don't use, and another 12 that don't work right.  As Martowl said, when you buy, buy from a reputable dealer, and make sure of their return policy. One thing, I just noticed last night when one said they had bought the Fenix 5, is that REI (if you have one close) has a coupon that gives you 20% off (YES!) ANY single purchase if you're a member. The membership costs $20, but 20% of $600 (no matter which watch you buy) is $120. You can use it for online ordering also, and REI has a 1 YEAR, no questions asked return policy. I bought the Fenix 3HR in November of last year, and returned in in the middle of January, and had a no hassle full refund, as long as everything that was in the box still is in the box. Check that out if you're serious.


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## martowl

sb029111 said:


> One thing, I just noticed last night when one said they had bought the Fenix 5, is that REI (if you have one close) has a coupon that gives you 20% off (YES!) ANY single purchase if you're a member.


But.....not for any devices with GPS technology, sorry....read the fine print before you leap. The return policy is excellent, that is where all of my Garmins ended up.


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## sb029111

martowl said:


> But.....not for any devices with GPS technology, sorry....read the fine print before you leap. The return policy is excellent, that is where all of my Garmins ended up.


WOW, I did not see that, and I looked long and hard to insure that it said ANY single purchase. Not that I'm going to buy a Garmin, I was just looking, but why would I want a Garmin when I already have an SSU and a Spartan Sport WHR?


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## martowl

More to think on, I pulled these from DCRainmakers' posts on the Fenix review
1.


Joe E
April 1, 2017 at 9:25 am#257
Finally got a f5 and am already really disappointed.
Stryd ConnectIQ datafield drops out a lot making the data useless and we have already started the massive Beta game that happened with the fenix 3, including updates to the GPS software.
I have had my 735XT for almost a year and have never had to load a Beta, Stryd ConnectIQ datafield almost never drops out and GPS tracking has been good without any updates from day 1.
As an initial user feedback I would not buy the fenix 5 if you are a serious athlete and the data is important to you. If you are a casual athlete and want a good looking watch, then it is probably OK.
Will be testing GPS today against 735XT with newest released Beta for f5 and if GPS performance is subpar compared to 735, mine is going back int eh box and back to CT.
Reply









Youssef
April 1, 2017 at 10:57 am
Hi Joe E,
I'm also very disappointed with the F5. I'm a first time Garmin user but the GPS is giving me a hard time. 
I have got a replacement for the watch but the the same issues. I run in an area where there are high rise buildings which glass/mirrors. 
I downloaded the beta and tested it again against my iphone 6. Overall did three walks. The differents is between 300 meters to almost one KM for a 3 km run. That's off by 10 to 30%. Once the watch loses GPS lock, it just goes crazy. It takes me literally everywhere.
I'm not happy at all
Reply









Joe E
April 1, 2017 at 12:30 pm
OK, tested with Beta from today and distance accrual was off by 6% and had multiple GPS dropouts over the course of a 5 mile run that I have run 100s of times with many watches. Even the fenix 3 was not this bad in the beginning. In addition Stryd ConnectIQ data continues to have multiple dropouts and I had with connection with my P1 pedals.
As a training tool this watch is not reliable. Back it goes to Clever Training.
Good luck to everyone else.
Reply









Chris Papenfuss
April 2, 2017 at 8:06 am
Same issues here: serious drop-outs from my Powertap P1 pedals and the Stryd. The minute I grab something from my jersey pocket, for example, the signal drops completely. The file looks horrible and the averages are way off as compared to my Edge 1000 (by 30w). Just wondering if this is a hardware or a software problem?
Reply









Chris Papenfuss
April 2, 2017 at 11:20 am
Additional update: My Stages PM does not work at all. The F5 connects ok when hold the watch close to the cranks. But the minute I move my hands and leave them on the bar the signal drops. (Riding with my left hand hanging down is not all that comfortable and aero ;-) ). Will call Garmin tomorrow. Not cool.
Reply









David
April 2, 2017 at 11:34 am
Here is what Garmin will say: "Call Stages." Then Stages will tell you "Call Garmin."
Stages PM = weakest signal of almost all PM sold.
Garmin = increasingly putting in ever less sensitive antennas since many PM have very powerful signals, due to cost or size I don't know why.
I'm bummed because although my Edge 820 still gets a signal from my Stages when on a bar mount I wanted reliable signal to my F5S Sapphire (whenever I get it, been 3+ months but who is counting) so that I could leverage the ability of the new F5 series to propagate training recovery information across sports (wish Garmin Connect could do this for me). 
Always a step forward but another step back.

_
2._
Kyle
March 30, 2017 at 4:33 pm#244
Ok I have tried like 5 different sites between, Garmin Connect, Suunto, Strava, Ridewithgps, Gaia GPS, and the basecamp app but nothing will import a GPX route with the waypoints and the elevation point. This is ridiculous. For a navigational company and a navigational watch, there is no reason why it should be this difficult. Suunto movescount site is so easy, you make a route with waypoints and sync. If I wasn't inlove with the hardware and map feature on the 5x I would move back. I am very technically inclined, I cant image a non tech person to figure this out.
Reply









DC Rainmaker
March 30, 2017 at 6:32 pm
Yeah, the whole creation of waypoints continues to be a mess (I talk about the lack of mobile routes option a fair bit, but this is in the same camp).
Though, on the flipside, I suspect most people that have GPX routes with waypoints and associated elevation data are probably fairly technically inclined.
Reply









gijom
April 3, 2017 at 1:45 pm
Hello, does anyone have recommendation on how to perform those tasks the most efficient way possible?



3._Alex_
_March 29, 2017 at 9:54 am#231_
_Hi! Do u know what's happened with battery life in UltraTrack mode, today just after they realised 935, they slide battery life in specification tab (garmin website) for fenix 5 from 75 to 60 hours and 5X from 50 to 35?_
_Reply_


_







Yal_
_March 29, 2017 at 10:28 am_
_from manual:
Up to 12 days
Smartwatch mode with activity tracking and 24/7 wrist- based heart rate monitoring
Up to 20 hours
GPS mode with wrist-based heart rate
Up to 50 hours
UltraTrac GPS mode with gyro-based dead reckoning_
_From web page (Garmin.com)
Smart mode: Up to 12 days
GPS/HR mode: Up to 20 hours
UltraTrac™ mode: Up to 35 hours without wrist heart rate

_


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## sb029111

Well, today, I went to extra measures to insure that the watch was where it was supposed to be on my arm, (about 1-2 fingers above the wrist bone), and fairly tight so no light leaked under the watch. It didn't move, and I have to say I'm EXTREMELY disappointed! First off, I did a short 1/4 mile walk to check on the calibration of the footpod, and the thing had my heart rate average at 156 BPM, and a max of 169. My MAX Heart rate is 161! I wasn't breathing hard, it just went crazy. Then for a "silver sneakers" class the thing started out at 165 BPM, and then averaged out to 92 BPM, and every other class of this type my average is around 112-120 with a max in the 130's. Then, I decided to put the chest strap on, and do the same walk I did before the class, and that showed what I would accept as how it felt, average 120, max of 125. I realize there won't be chest strap accuracy with the WHR, but simply put, this is unacceptable. Here's a link to one of today's activities, the others are there to compare if anyone's interested. Everything before the 30th was with the Ultra/Chest strap. http://www.movescount.com/moves/move150098762

Given that the first moves were spot on, I honestly believe I blew up something in the HR module when I gave it the day (Sunday) off. If you note on the Movescount, the moves on the 30th and 31st were spot on, rivaling chest strap numbers. Then, beginning Monday, everythig went haywire. I've submitted a ticket to Suunto, so we'll have to see what they say. I might try the "soft reset" trick I saw somewhere to "fix" the battery drain problem, but I think I'm okay there, lost 8% with 3 moves, totalling a bit over an hour and 15 minutes. We'll see about that, but I'm really wondering about the sudden variation of the HR module.


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## bruceames

REI does have a generous return policy, which the serial returners take full advantage of unfortunately. Now their prices seem to be higher than anyone else's as a result. A 20% off coupon simply means you pay 'normal' price.


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## sb029111

I think tomorrow, I'm going to do a heads up comparison. I have the Ultra, and a Scosche Rhythm+ armband, which apparently uses the same sensor as the Sport WHR. I'm going to wear the Sport WHR on one arm, and the Ultra/Scosche on the other, do another little walk around the track and see. I may even wear both to the yoga class, but that would look pretty "geeky". Both HR monitors are optical, so they should be fairly close in the graphs, and data. Now to figure out how to get them both into movescount so I can actually compare them.. Stay tuned.. 







 I really need to figure out which one of these I'm going to keep. The main reason for the Sport WHR was to not have to wear the chest strap all the time, but I can get around that with the Scosche and the Ultra. Decisions, decisions, decisions. Suggestions, anyone?


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## bcalvanese

sb029111 said:


> I think tomorrow, I'm going to do a heads up comparison. I have the Ultra, and a Scosche Rhythm+ armband, which apparently uses the same sensor as the Sport WHR. I'm going to wear the Sport WHR on one arm, and the Ultra/Scosche on the other, do another little walk around the track and see. I may even wear both to the yoga class, but that would look pretty "geeky". Both HR monitors are optical, so they should be fairly close in the graphs, and data. Now to figure out how to get them both into movescount so I can actually compare them.. Stay tuned..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really need to figure out which one of these I'm going to keep. The main reason for the Sport WHR was to not have to wear the chest strap all the time, but I can get around that with the Scosche and the Ultra. Decisions, decisions, decisions. Suggestions, anyone?


I would recommend keeping the Ultra.

Better battery life
Barametric altimiter
Better metrics

JMHO


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## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> I would recommend keeping the Ultra.
> 
> Better battery life
> Barametric altimiter
> Better metrics
> 
> JMHO


Right now, I'm leaning that way, but want to see what Suunto says. On Facebook a guy said that D.C. Rainmaker isn't happy with the Sport WHR, and is giving them a week to try to fix it before his in depth review. "Like sands through the hourglass go the days of our lives ".....


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## Egika

At least it makes sense to have the watch go through a couple of charges and not derive conclusions on the battery life just from the first few percents up and down.
Usually the charge of battery powered devices like this is determined from a current sensor monitoring current going in and out of the battery. But it also need to know the starting point for these calculations (what is 0 and 100%, and how much current the battery can take or supply between these two points). For an accurate display it makes sense to fully discharge and then charge the battery, so the display can be calibrated.


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## martowl

Just to inject some fun into this discussion since we ARE comparing Garmin 5 and Spartans....here is a link for all 39 pages of discussion regarding GPS accuracy of the fenix 5 series..https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?371929-GPS-Accuracy/page39

Anyway, my point is not to belittle Garmin or Suunto. And I think making a decision between two watches that retail for a LOT of $ or euros is what you get with the whole package. I have a skimo race on Saturday, went to the Suunto map for the area found the track from last year and in one minute have the track uploaded to my Spartan...damn that is nice! The integration and thought Suunto has put into the package is great. On my prior post where I quoted DCRainmaker forums is an A3P user that is very frustrated trying to get turn by turn directions imported into a fenix 5X, unsuccessful so far.

So when you consider the two watches, it is important to evaluate both platforms and not just the watch. Movescount has undergone an unbelievable evolution since its inception, I know because I started when it was in beta. At this time it is one of the best or the best platform available given the recent upgrades. The heat maps and ease of incorporating routes is a feature not present anywhere else.

Anyway, have fun reading all those 39 pages, some are good some are bad and the fenix 5 has the growing pains the Spartan did....but I think the Spartan is largely fixed now...what will happen with the fenix 5 series?


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Clearly I'm biased, in various ways, but... wHR is quite apparently something where "DC is unhappy and giving them a week to fix it" only shows that we need more people to test, review, and report, not only one whom everyone turns to.

I've seen enough discussions about that technology by now to feel comfortable concluding that it's extremely dependent on your particular situation. Hence also, only averages make sense as conclusive statements (or personal opinions that are nothing much more than personal opinions - but some people's opinions will carry a lot more weight than other's...).

The Spartan WHR seems to have had the best overall/average results in Valencell testing, or so Suunto says (IIRC), but oHR varies with skin tone, circulation, probably even the particular structure of your particular wrist.

So, if you want the convenience of oHR, you'll just have to try out if it will work right for you. And that over an average. And ultimately, summer vs. winter will likely show different results, as situations are pretty different.


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## sb029111

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Clearly I'm biased, in various ways, but... wHR is quite apparently something where "DC is unhappy and giving them a week to fix it" only shows that we need more people to test, review, and report, not only one whom everyone turns to.
> 
> The Spartan WHR seems to have had the best overall/average results in Valencell testing, or so Suunto says (IIRC), but oHR varies with skin tone, circulation, probably even the particular structure of your particular wrist.
> 
> So, if you want the convenience of oHR, you'll just have to try out if it will work right for you. And that over an average. And ultimately, summer vs. winter will likely show different results, as situations are pretty different.


Unfortunately, this is not the first WHR watch I've had, I've owned a fenix 3HR, and while it lacked in some ways, at least the HR was fairly acceptable. For instance, this is a "Silver 
Sneakers Yoga Class move using the Fenix 3HR: 
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1564307846

And the same class using the SSWHO:
oeagleo's 0:56 h Yoga / pilates Move

Now, for the actual "Silver Sneakers" class, using the F3HR:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1572032738

And the SSWHR
oeagleo's 0:54 h Aerobics Move

If you look at the moves made with the SSWHR, it almost appears that the quality of the Heart Rate data is deteriorating, and that is what concerns me. If it were only software, and was consistently showing minimum heart rate during exercise in the 30-40 bpm, then I'd say it would be a lot different, but not being able to pin in down when it goes awry is what is so disheartening. As I said, for now, I'm going back to the Ultra, at least I know it's consistent now, and see what Suunto intends to do with the SSWHR before I ship it back. I don't really think I'll be going to Garmin, I've had too many and know what their pattern is like..


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## ixman

I guess I'm just getting old but every time I want to go out for a run I always find myself picking up my good old A3 Peak even though I have both the SSU and an F5. After almost a month with the F5 all I can say is that is just another iteration in the current trend of both Garmin and Suunto of ripping us of money with substandard hardware, beta software and a ton of non relevant features. I'm actually using F5 more like a smartwatch. The irony.
As for the wrist heart rate monitor please stop it. It will never be as accurate as the chest strap. Never. You want a precise heart rate while training, wear a damn strap and stop complaining.
I fully expect Garmin/Suunto to include a TV function for next year flagship watch. You know, to keep up with the ........... while on the run.
Can we just put aside all these useless features/comparisons and just enjoy running? No offence intended, just my 2 cents.


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## bcalvanese

I am reluctant to say this but the F5 is looking very promising.

her is a power walk / run interval I did today...

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1663813654

GPS track seems very good as does distance. Much better than my F3HR, and speaking of HR, the OHR seems way better as well. It does not spike and/or drop out in the middle of a workout like my F3HR does, and seems to be pretty accurate both during exercise and 24/7 monitoring.

I am reluctant because I had a lot of issues with the F3HR, and it got to the point that I had to wear my A3P along with it in fear it would reboot and lose my workout again, or just freak out like it has done several times.

So far the F5 has been rock solid, and I would like to emphasize "so far". There have been many times I wanted to smash my F3HR with a hammer and mail it back to Garmin with a nasty note...

I do find the new metrics very interesting, and supposedly I have to use the device for about a month before they start getting accurate, so we will see how that goes.

Time will tell.

Oh, and the battery life is awesome so far.


----------



## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> I am reluctant to say this but the F5 is looking very promising.
> 
> her is a power walk / run interval I did today...
> 
> https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1663813654
> 
> GPS track seems very good as does distance. Much better than my F3HR, and speaking of HR, the OHR seems way better as well. It does not spike and/or drop out in the middle of a workout like my F3HR does, and seems to be pretty accurate both during exercise and 24/7 monitoring.
> 
> I am reluctant because I had a lot of issues with the F3HR, and it got to the point that I had to wear my A3P along with it in fear it would reboot and lose my workout again, or just freak out like it has done several times.
> 
> So far the F5 has been rock solid, and I would like to emphasize "so far". There have been many times I wanted to smash my F3HR with a hammer and mail it back to Garmin with a nasty note...
> 
> I do find the new metrics very interesting, and supposedly I have to use the device for about a month before they start getting accurate, so we will see how that goes.
> 
> Time will tell.
> 
> Oh, and the battery life is awesome so far.


Well, I have to say that I returned my SSWHR today. Not so much about the bad HR readings, (I've owned an F3HR, Fitbit Charge HR, Fitbit Charge 2, VivoSmart HR, Vivosmart HR+, All with no problems getting at least a consistent HR reading,so I know how to wear an Optical HR), but the problem is that usually when I would E-mail Support, I would get an answer within 2 or 3 days. That has been consistent. BUT, I'm still waiting for an answer about the very first time I wore the SSWHR. That is when I decided to bite the bullet for the F5. So far, (I've only had it two days), the activities I did today, the HR is consistent with what it was with the SSU with the Chest Strap, although, as I already knew, the calorie count was significantly lower, and I would imagine more in line with the "burn". A couple things I really like is the ability to "tune in" the footpod. I spent a couple miles today moving the "factor" until it keyed right on for a mile track. Time will tell about the GPS track, it's still raining here, so I haven't taken it out for a walk/bike ride, but my F3HR did produce consistent, pretty decent tracks. I'll go for the 30 minute circuit tomorrow, along with probably a little weight training, so we'll see how it acts in that scenario. One other thing I REALLY like, is that I can use my MiCoach (BTLE) footpod, and the SUUNTO Smart Sensor heart rate belt, if I want to. NO NEED TO BUY ANT+ DEVICES! YAY! I haven't used the Chest strap yet, but it's paired. The footpod gave me all of the metrics that the Garmin ANT+ footpod did, so I'm totally pleased about that, saves about $130 or so..


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## bcalvanese

sb029111 said:


> Well, I have to say that I returned my SSWHR today. Not so much about the bad HR readings, (I've owned an F3HR, Fitbit Charge HR, Fitbit Charge 2, VivoSmart HR, Vivosmart HR+, All with no problems getting at least a consistent HR reading,so I know how to wear an Optical HR), but the problem is that usually when I would E-mail Support, I would get an answer within 2 or 3 days. That has been consistent. BUT, I'm still waiting for an answer about the very first time I wore the SSWHR. That is when I decided to bite the bullet for the F5. So far, (I've only had it two days), the activities I did today, the HR is consistent with what it was with the SSU with the Chest Strap, although, as I already knew, the calorie count was significantly lower, and I would imagine more in line with the "burn". A couple things I really like is the ability to "tune in" the footpod. I spent a couple miles today moving the "factor" until it keyed right on for a mile track. Time will tell about the GPS track, it's still raining here, so I haven't taken it out for a walk/bike ride, but my F3HR did produce consistent, pretty decent tracks. I'll go for the 30 minute circuit tomorrow, along with probably a little weight training, so we'll see how it acts in that scenario. One other thing I REALLY like, is that I can use my MiCoach (BTLE) footpod, and the SUUNTO Smart Sensor heart rate belt, if I want to. NO NEED TO BUY ANT+ DEVICES! YAY! I haven't used the Chest strap yet, but it's paired. The footpod gave me all of the metrics that the Garmin ANT+ footpod did, so I'm totally pleased about that, saves about $130 or so..


I've owned the F3, F3HR, vivoactive HR, vivoactive, Polar V800, fitbit Surge, fitbit Blaze, fitbit Charge 2, A3P, SSU, and SSSWHR. I still own the F3HR, V800, and A3P, and now the F5.

Did you get the F5X, F5, or F5S?

Saphire or non saphire?

I just got the F5 (non saphire). I think it has the best battery life of the three. I dont really need the wifi or the maps on the watch as long as i can navigate a course if needed.

Yes. I noticed the calorie burn is a lot lower than other devices too, but i also think other devices are too generious with calorie burns, so i normally only eat back half anyway. Maybe the F5 is closer to the real burn which is a good thing.

Please post your activity once you have a GPS track.


----------



## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> I've owned the F3, F3HR, vivoactive HR, vivoactive, Polar V800, fitbit Surge, fitbit Blaze, fitbit Charge 2, A3P, SSU, and SSSWHR. I still own the F3HR, V800, and A3P, and now the F5.
> 
> Did you get the F5X, F5, or F5S?
> 
> Saphire or non saphire?
> 
> I just got the F5 (non saphire). I think it has the best battery life of the three. I dont really need the wifi or the maps on the watch as long as i can navigate a course if needed.
> 
> Yes. I noticed the calorie burn is a lot lower than other devices too, but i also think other devices are too generious with calorie burns, so i normally only eat back half anyway. Maybe the F5 is closer to the real burn which is a good thing.
> 
> Please post your activity once you have a GPS track.


I forgot about the Polar devices that I've owned, an M400, M600, V800, and a Loop. Of those, the V800 far outshines the others in terms of accuracy, especially the GPS. I got the F5, non-sapphire, I'll get a screen protector from IQShield for it, I didn't think the extra money for the sapphire/Wireless was worth it. I did like the 5S but the store didn't have them, I only saw a "dummy", as the Garmin rep was there when I went to REI. We talked for a bit, and I finally said okay, I'm going to do this. I had called Suunto Tech support to verify that all I had to do to return the SSWHR was simply fill out the form, slap the label on the box, and ship it, so I did that, and went to REI.
I don't know if it's the way the band is connected, or what, but the F5 seems more comfortable on my wrist, even thought it is apparently heavier. I did a Yoga class yesterday, and the HR was pretty much what I would have expected from the class, so we'll see what happens. I really am wanting to get out on my bike, but until the darn rain stops, (I don't DO rain, Arizona is where I was raised, and rain is a foreign thing to me, not to mention snow!), I'll just have to wait.
I didn't want the 5x, for as I told the Garmin rep, I already have 3 other mapping devices, 4 if you count the truck. A Edge touring, (simply FOR the maps on my bike), an Oregon 600 for Geocaching, and a Nuvi 2460 for the car, so another on the watch, to me, would seem redundant.


----------



## dogrunner

bcalvanese said:


> I am reluctant to say this but the F5 is looking very promising.
> ...
> GPS track seems very good as does distance. ...
> 
> I am reluctant because I had a lot of issues with the F3HR, and it got to the point that I had to wear my A3P along with it in fear it would reboot and lose my workout again, or just freak out like it has done several times.
> 
> So far the F5 has been rock solid, and I would like to emphasize "so far". ,,,
> 
> Oh, and the battery life is awesome so far.


Thanks for the report. I'm looking forward to updates as you spend more time with these. I am on the fence still between SSU and F5x. I do not want wrist HR (I have OHR with Scosche that works great) but I do want good realtime GPS (not just total distance at the end of a run).


----------



## bcalvanese

dogrunner said:


> Thanks for the report. I'm looking forward to updates as you spend more time with these. I am on the fence still between SSU and F5x. I do not want wrist HR (I have OHR with Scosche that works great) but I do want good realtime GPS (not just total distance at the end of a run).


Here is a trail run I did today...

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1665598120

The parts that go off the trail look to be correct as I was off the trail in those spots.

From what I am seeing so far the F5 is impressive.

I like the new metrics too. It gives 2 training effects. aerobic and anaerobic. If you do an activity you can add a course to navigate and it gives all kinds of metrics that you can customize. Including predicted times, elevation graphs that show you where you are on the graph, and many others. And the good thing is they all seem to actually work (unlike the F3HR)

I think Garmin has really stepped up their game with this device.

I don't know the true distance of the activity in the link as this is the first time I have done these particular trails. I wanted to see how well I could navigate with the device, and it made it very easy for me.

The 2 or 3 other activities that I have done so far that I know the true distance have been spot on, and the GPS tracks look pretty darn good as well.

Battery life is great so far as well. I don't do ultra marathons or anything, and my workouts are usually no longer than a couple hour or so, but I think it will last the whole 24 hours with GPS + GLONASS + HR.

I have to use it for a month so it learns my training before it starts giving more accurate metrics for certain things so I cannot speak to that yet.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.


----------



## NriQ10

The first multi-sport watch I had was a Suunto Core several years ago. About this brand I always thought having a high quality but that a few years stayed behind the rival brands, up to recently launched Spartan models, which, in my opinion, compete directly with the Fenix3/5.


Technology and performance have evolved over the years and now I have a Garmin F3, and I am very satisfied with it. It is not the last model, but it's enough for sporting activities I practise.


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## bcalvanese

Here is my recovery walk from today with my F5. Very slow pace because my knees are killing me...

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1668016578

Very consistent from what I get on this same route using my A3P...

bcalvanese's 1:23 h Trail running Move


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## martowl

Interesting preliminary review by fellrnr. The GPS in his opinion has significant issues, the OHR is basically not useful (I think this is likely general of any OHR) and the battery life is an issue. You can read it for yourself here.


----------



## primus

GPS: Garmin 735xt vs 935 vs Fenix 5 vs Suunto Spartan

https://media.dcrainmaker.com/images/2017/03/image69.png

https://media.dcrainmaker.com/images/2017/03/image70.png

https://media.dcrainmaker.com/images/2017/03/image71.png

https://media.dcrainmaker.com/images/2017/03/image72.png

source: [url]https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/03/garmin-forerunner-935-depth-review.html
[/URL]


----------



## martowl

primus said:


> GPS: Garmin 735xt vs 935 vs Fenix 5 vs Suunto Spartan


I realize these two individuals have different opinions, their testing methods are different. I did not say whether one was more accurate than the other, frankly I expected fellrnr to get better GPS data from the 5X. In addition, some like me live where GPS conditions are typically good, I did not have issues with my Spartan. Many others did and GPS tracks posted here were terrible. It will be interesting to hear from users.


----------



## bcalvanese

martowl said:


> I realize these two individuals have different opinions, their testing methods are different. I did not say whether one was more accurate than the other, frankly I expected fellrnr to get better GPS data from the 5X. In addition, some like me live where GPS conditions are typically good, I did not have issues with my Spartan. Many others did and GPS tracks posted here were terrible. It will be interesting to hear from users.


Did you happen to look at my last tracks i posted?

I'm a user...


----------



## gousias

I can say so far that I'm disappointed! Especially with battery life. Also vibration often goes by without getting noticed. HR goes spiky too! What to mention further, I can't return it due to policy of stores in my country. 
When you have to charge it, do you always plug it on a laptop/pc? Have you matched an appropriate charger with this cable? Just in case someone is outside and doesn't have a laptop/pc.


----------



## martowl

bcalvanese said:


> Did you happen to look at my last tracks i posted?
> 
> I'm a user...


Hard to tell a lot since the Connect maps are not so great but they look roughly similar. Although not much elevation gain, the 5X had at least double what the Spartan reported.


----------



## martowl

The Garmin forums have users unhappy with battery life as Garmin revised the UltraTrac battery estimates. For the 5x, the estimated battery life in UltraTrac is now 35h. I realize most of you look at this and think "well why is that an issue?" But for idiots like me that run for longer than 35h this is a big deal. For difficult 100 mile races or anything longer than that you must charge the fenix. A3P is 200 hours in the equivalent of ultratrac and the Spartan is rated at 60h, long enough for those doing multiday excursions or 200 mile races to avoid charging. Surprised that the fenix 5 series took such a hit on battery life, the f5 went from 100 to 60, which is respectable, no better than the SSU but no mapping features of the 5x either. Preliminary tests by some users indicate that the downward revisions in battery life are likely close to accurate.

So, for longer battery life I think the SSU is clearly a better choice here. Garmin does not have the equivalent of the Good 1 sec fix on the Spartan. This has not been discussed much here. My comparisons of distance estimates and tracks for best and good show little difference, when I race I will use the good gps unless I need to go longer. However, pace will not be accurate and for that I intend to use the Stryd to get accurate pacing.


----------



## bcalvanese

martowl said:


> The Garmin forums have users unhappy with battery life as Garmin revised the UltraTrac battery estimates. For the 5x, the estimated battery life in UltraTrac is now 35h. I realize most of you look at this and think "well why is that an issue?" But for idiots like me that run for longer than 35h this is a big deal. For difficult 100 mile races or anything longer than that you must charge the fenix. A3P is 200 hours in the equivalent of ultratrac and the Spartan is rated at 60h, long enough for those doing multiday excursions or 200 mile races to avoid charging. Surprised that the fenix 5 series took such a hit on battery life, the f5 went from 100 to 60, which is respectable, no better than the SSU but no mapping features of the 5x either. Preliminary tests by some users indicate that the downward revisions in battery life are likely close to accurate.
> 
> So, for longer battery life I think the SSU is clearly a better choice here. Garmin does not have the equivalent of the Good 1 sec fix on the Spartan. This has not been discussed much here. My comparisons of distance estimates and tracks for best and good show little difference, when I race I will use the good gps unless I need to go longer. However, pace will not be accurate and for that I intend to use the Stryd to get accurate pacing.


I chose the 5 over the 5X mainly for the battery life, but also because I'm not a fan of the maps being on a watch. If i want to find a coffee shop I can use my phone. The navigation of courses is great on the 5. I tried it the other day and it worked extremely well. I don't need to see all the streets and stuff. Just need to be able to follow the course.

As far as the GPS goes, i mainly want consistency. I dont want to do the same route 5 times and get 5 different distances that are up to a quarter mile off. My F3HR was fair, and my A3P is probably the best, but this F5 is very impressive so far. I don't want to speak too soon and say it's as good as my A3P, but so far it has been.

All the features that did not work consistently on my F3HR seem to work on my F5 so far. As I said, I don't want to speak too soon, but so far I am very impressed with the F5.

I am still waiting to see how accurate all the new metrics start falling into place, but DC Rainmaker says it can take up to a month, so I am waiting for that.

I do like the Spartan and the A3P over the F3HR, but if my F5 keeps impressing me long term, I can see it becoming my favorite device.

Only time will tell.


----------



## sb029111

I agree with bcalvanese, for one thing, if I'm going to go 100 miles, I'm looking for my car keys..  I like several of the features on the F5, one of the best, for me is the ability to "dial in" the footpod, to get an accurate distance without the GPS. I am a totally different user than Martowl, as I'm not a runner, just a Mall walker, gym rat, bike rider, etc, and I in no way have the endurance to do anything approaching 100 miles. I can do 4 hours on the bike, but that's about it, so the battery life isn't a factor for me. So far, the F5 has suited my purpose perfectly, for the circuit I did the other day, I chose to use my Suunto Smart Belt HRM, rather than the optical on the watch, and it worked perfectly. I love the fact that I can use my BTLE devices on the F5, and don't have to re-purchase all of those things. Of course, like everything else, we each have our own purpose for our little toys, and we tend to love those that do what we need them to do, and disdain those that don't. Myself, the things I was interested in, was WHR, but the ability to use the chest strap, GPS accuracy, and the ability to track a decent number of different activities. The F5 does that for me, so I'm happy so far. Fords vs. Chevy's..


----------



## bcalvanese

Here is a comparison with my F5 and my A3P...

F5
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1675454375

A3P
bcalvanese's 0:46 h Nordic walking Move

I think the folks on the Garmin forum are getting way too carried away on that GPS Accuracy thread. I have been getting very good GPS with my F5 so far. I also think the OHR is the best I have used in any device so far. This comparison I used the OHR on the F5 and the chest strap on the A3P. F5 was set to every second and GPS + GLONASS, and A3P was set to 1 second and best GPS.

People are jumping ship from the F5 to the FR935 left and right. Wonder if they are all going to jump back to the F5 after any "minor" GPS issues (if you can say there are any) get resolved...

I think a lot of it is user error, exporting gpx files to other things that make them look bad, a few defective units here and there.

I still may be speaking too soon though...


----------



## sb029111

Have to agree with you about the obsession with the accuracy. When Geocaching, with Garmin's Oregon 600, I learned that even with WAAS enabled, and 12 sats, you're not going to get closer than 12-15 feet from a given coordinate. More if there's something reflective around, and the sat signals are actually a type of radio wave, and will bounce, giving erratic results. Given that, and the fact that sat coverage and accuracy is variable from day to day and even hour to hour, well, I'm just happy it is close to the road/trail! I have owned and used damn near every GPS device out there, from Garmin, Magellan, Suunto, TomTom, and they all vary. That's a fact of life. Also, I have noticed that as far as accuracy goes, it can even depend on which map you're using to view the track!
So, I say let 'em drop $500-1000 every couple weeks/months in search of the elusive "Holy Grail" of GPS's, as long as it's fairly close to the road, and fairly accurate for distance, I'm good. But then, I don't do marathons, where 10-15 feet are extremely important over the 26 miles. (sarcasm=off). For me, the F5 is a great watch, far outshining the F3, and F3HR I had, and because of the features, I honestly like it better than the $900 Suunto Spartan Ultra, and the tracks I've had with it (the SSU) are no better than the one's I've got with the F5.
Of course, as DC Rainmaker says, "Your mileage may vary"..


----------



## Egika

Well spoken


----------



## user_none

bcalvanese said:


> Here is a comparison with my F5 and my A3P...
> 
> F5
> https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1675454375
> 
> A3P
> bcalvanese's 0:46 h Nordic walking Move
> 
> I think the folks on the Garmin forum are getting way too carried away on that GPS Accuracy thread. I have been getting very good GPS with my F5 so far. I also think the OHR is the best I have used in any device so far. This comparison I used the OHR on the F5 and the chest strap on the A3P. F5 was set to every second and GPS + GLONASS, and A3P was set to 1 second and best GPS.
> 
> People are jumping ship from the F5 to the FR935 left and right. Wonder if they are all going to jump back to the F5 after any "minor" GPS issues (if you can say there are any) get resolved...
> 
> I think a lot of it is user error, exporting gpx files to other things that make them look bad, a few defective units here and there.
> 
> I still may be speaking too soon though...


Agreed that people are going a bit overboard, but it's also understandable when the f5 doesn't get pace correct due to a very much less than great GPS track/implementation/whatever. The f5 is a nice watch, but for me it's not yet comparing to the SSU nor the A3P. On a six mile run, in a relatively open area, the SSU hit every mile marker along the path. The f5 not only trailed the SSU in distance, it was also off pace most of the time by 15-30 seconds per mile. That, to me, is not great for those seeking to have stable and reliable pace. That written, I don't think any GPS device is going to be perfect; some better than others. I have an f5 because, eh, why not? It's not replacing my SSU, nor the A3P. Rather, it's supplementing for the daily activity (or inactivity) tracking and will be used for walking and hiking. Trail running and road running will be left to the Suunto brothers.

Export the gpx files and put them both into MyGPSFiles so people can see the tracks on a level playing field. Google maps frequently don't line up with Open Street Map, so having both in one makes a direct comparison much easier. And why would exporting a gpx file, the raw data, lead to error?


----------



## bcalvanese

user_none said:


> Agreed that people are going a bit overboard, but it's also understandable when the f5 doesn't get pace correct due to a very much less than great GPS track/implementation/whatever. The f5 is a nice watch, but for me it's not yet comparing to the SSU nor the A3P. On a six mile run, in a relatively open area, the SSU hit every mile marker along the path. The f5 not only trailed the SSU in distance, it was also off pace most of the time by 15-30 seconds per mile. That, to me, is not great for those seeking to have stable and reliable pace. That written, I don't think any GPS device is going to be perfect; some better than others. I have an f5 because, eh, why not? It's not replacing my SSU, nor the A3P. Rather, it's supplementing for the daily activity (or inactivity) tracking and will be used for walking and hiking. Trail running and road running will be left to the Suunto brothers.
> 
> Export the gpx files and put them both into MyGPSFiles so people can see the tracks on a level playing field. Google maps frequently don't line up with Open Street Map, so having both in one makes a direct comparison much easier. And why would exporting a gpx file, the raw data, lead to error?


MyGPSFiles

i just think the best way to view is in the software that is designed for it. I didn't mean lead to errors.


----------



## user_none

bcalvanese said:


> MyGPSFiles
> 
> i just think the best way to view is in the software that is designed for it. I didn't mean lead to errors.


Here's the thing I don't like about GC; the map can't be expanded (or I can't find it) and when zooming to a close level it does that 3D/tilt thing and that skews tracks. Also, it's Google Maps, and that's it. I've directly compared a route created in Movescount (exported to GPX) along with the f5 and the A3P and when overlaid on Google Maps there's inconsistencies. In my experience, the trails in OSM seem to be more accurate overall.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vSX2eqFdnDx1oIAxLr-GQZHk1Lg&usp=sharing


----------



## bcalvanese

user_none said:


> Here's the thing I don't like about GC; the map can't be expanded (or I can't find it) and when zooming to a close level it does that 3D/tilt thing and that skews tracks. Also, it's Google Maps, and that's it. I've directly compared a route created in Movescount (exported to GPX) along with the f5 and the A3P and when overlaid on Google Maps there's inconsistencies. In my experience, the trails in OSM seem to be more accurate overall.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vSX2eqFdnDx1oIAxLr-GQZHk1Lg&usp=sharing


In GC you can select Open Street Maps or Google Maps.


----------



## bruceames

bcalvanese said:


> Here is a comparison with my F5 and my A3P...
> 
> F5
> https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1675454375
> 
> A3P
> bcalvanese's 0:46 h Nordic walking Move
> 
> I think the folks on the Garmin forum are getting way too carried away on that GPS Accuracy thread. I have been getting very good GPS with my F5 so far. I also think the OHR is the best I have used in any device so far. This comparison I used the OHR on the F5 and the chest strap on the A3P. F5 was set to every second and GPS + GLONASS, and A3P was set to 1 second and best GPS.
> 
> People are jumping ship from the F5 to the FR935 left and right. Wonder if they are all going to jump back to the F5 after any "minor" GPS issues (if you can say there are any) get resolved...
> 
> I think a lot of it is user error, exporting gpx files to other things that make them look bad, a few defective units here and there.
> 
> I still may be speaking too soon though...


Everyone has different expectations and results. The results aren't going to vary by watch (unless it's defective) but rather by the satellite area where they live and the terrain they do their moves in. Some expectations are unrealistic, but most expectations are based on what other watches can do and they compare with them.


----------



## user_none

bcalvanese said:


> In GC you can select Open Street Maps or Google Maps.


Ah, okay. Now I see that, but I don't see any way to open full screen like with Movescount and Strava.

I went for another run this evening on the same 6 mile route, which is a multi-use paved path that has half and mile markers. Both the SSU and the f5 were set for GPS+GLONASS and 1 second recording. Both were sitting at their GPS lock screen for almost 10 min while I waited on my running partner. While the f5 tracks were notably tighter than with GPS only, it's distance was pretty darned bad in comparison to the SSU. Like clockwork, the SSU chimed at every mile marker. I'm astonished at its accuracy and repeat-ability. Whatever Suunto is doing with the FusedSpeed and wrist cadence is working.

Both: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bP3aRLSxGmigGkrGwz1-v1ZrLhA&usp=sharing
Movescount: ChevronLugs's 1:02 h Running Move

On Movescount, you'll see a pause in the middle; that's where my running partner wanted to walk, so I paused both watches at exactly 3 miles out and started them at the 3 mile marker once our run resumed.


----------



## bcalvanese

user_none said:


> Ah, okay. Now I see that, but I don't see any way to open full screen like with Movescount and Strava.
> 
> I went for another run this evening on the same 6 mile route, which is a multi-use paved path that has half and mile markers. Both the SSU and the f5 were set for GPS+GLONASS and 1 second recording. Both were sitting at their GPS lock screen for almost 10 min while I waited on my running partner. While the f5 tracks were notably tighter than with GPS only, it's distance was pretty darned bad in comparison to the SSU. Like clockwork, the SSU chimed at every mile marker. I'm astonished at its accuracy and repeat-ability. Whatever Suunto is doing with the FusedSpeed and wrist cadence is working.
> 
> Both: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bP3aRLSxGmigGkrGwz1-v1ZrLhA&usp=sharing
> Movescount: ChevronLugs's 1:02 h Running Move
> 
> On Movescount, you'll see a pause in the middle; that's where my running partner wanted to walk, so I paused both watches at exactly 3 miles out and started them at the 3 mile marker once our run resumed.


Can you post the GC link for the F5?

Thanks,


----------



## user_none

bcalvanese said:


> Can you post the GC link for the F5?
> 
> Thanks,


I deleted the move out of GC, but I exported the original files if you'd like to have a look.

https://app.box.com/s/ujshblclti1ohcxz3h1f84yuhvqorcfs

Reason for deletion from GC is, I'm using SyncMyTracks on Android to synchronize between Garmin Connect and Movescount, then any moves from GC > Movescount are pushed to Strava. I delete the redundant/comparison track from GC before that synchronization has occurred else there'd be duplicates in Strava.


----------



## PTBC

user_none said:


> Here's the thing I don't like about GC; the map can't be expanded (or I can't find it) and when zooming to a close level it does that 3D/tilt thing and that skews tracks. Also, it's Google Maps, and that's it. I've directly compared a route created in Movescount (exported to GPX) along with the f5 and the A3P and when overlaid on Google Maps there's inconsistencies. In my experience, the trails in OSM seem to be more accurate overall.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vSX2eqFdnDx1oIAxLr-GQZHk1Lg&usp=sharing


For my area theres a lot of trails don't show on Google maps that are on OSM so tend to use that


----------



## user_none

PTBC said:


> For my area theres a lot of trails don't show on Google maps that are on OSM so tend to use that


Yep, though Google is getting better. In my GPS torture test proving grounds, Google used to have almost none of the trails; now they're all there.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/E...a6e6955322acb04!8m2!3d37.412143!4d-122.307242


----------



## Glajda

user_none said:


> Ah, okay. Now I see that, but I don't see any way to open full screen like with Movescount and Strava.


Can't do that directly but there's a workaround.
Save the following link as a bookmark:
javascript:void(jQuery.getScript('https://johanberonius.github.io/fullscreen-maps/garmin-connect.js'))

When you view an activity in GC, open this bookmark and a fullscreen icon will appear in the map.
You have to do this every time you open a new activity.


----------



## user_none

Glajda said:


> Can't do that directly but there's a workaround.
> Save the following link as a bookmark:
> javascript:void(jQuery.getScript('https://johanberonius.github.io/fullscreen-maps/garmin-connect.js'))
> 
> When you view an activity in GC, open this bookmark and a fullscreen icon will appear in the map.
> You have to do this every time you open a new activity.


That's super cool. Thanks!


----------



## gousias

Is there anyway to get software for Mac OS X Lion?


----------



## gousias

Cannot install one and update, adjust the watch.


----------



## iridium7777

I received Suunto HR on Saturday and have taken in onto 2 runs. Initial impressions are that GPS tracking is good and HR meter is also good, i didn't observe any odd spikes that i used to see in my Fenix 3HR but honestly never saw in my 235.

The things that bother me:

1) Movescount sync app with iphone completely stopped working yesterday. Watch says Pairing Failed and keeps giving me a new code over and over again. (Major)
2) The only way to edit screens/sports is through the online interface. (Medium)
3) as far as i can tell there is still no count down timer. i plan using the watch for sailing -- at least with my old ambit 3 i was also able to create a sailing app with countdown. for a watch that costs $500 and i would need a separate stopwatch is ridiculous (Major enough)
4) The step counter i noticed re-set itself at 9PM and moved on to the next day. (minor)
4a) the watch is incredibly bulky, and in the bright blue model i am embarrassed to wear it all day, so personally to me the counter doesn't matter
4b)if Suunto intended to make this an "all-day" watch, they should really look into sleep tracking too then
5) 24h heart rate monitoring looks iffy, going to that screen the value is never instant (minor)
6) the post-run or activity map seems not to exist. while you're in an activity there's a breadcrumb but once it's done you don't see a map (like Ambit 3 or Fenix generate). (medium)
7) logs of activities have no maps and you can not execute an activity from a previous log (major)
8) watch interface is not intuitive and laggy (medium)

the good things:
1) screen is pretty, and it shows activities nicely.
2) HR monitor seems to be stable during activity
3) GPS performs well
4) battery life after 1.5 hr activity at highest settings (no glossnass) dropped 15%, extrapolating to about 10hr of activity time. i understand that this is a huge drop of 20+ between Ambit and Fenix, but i suspect for most people it's enough


in summary i think the watch is extremely overpriced for what it is, especially if you compare it to something like the 935, but the biggest contributors that make me feel that way is the broken movescount and count-down timer functionality. i will always value wrist HR simply because i hate straps.

my plan tonight is to get a fenix5 and test it out.

but right now i consider suunto a crippled watch that needs a computer to do anything with, considering the platform has now been around close to 9 months it's a $500 joke.


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## gousias

Totally agree with everything you mentioned. I bought mine a week ago and I'm not pleased mainly. I took the black and though it is a discreet color I'm thinking of wearing it all day due to its bulky appearance. I'm also going on sailing occasionally and I can't find the usage that I thought it would offer. Also the battery is a main issue for me and this watch lacks of some basic functions such count downtimer, 24/7 option for sleep tracking etc


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## iridium7777

can't edit my post but another thing that's missing is any type of VO2 max/running performance statistics after a run.


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## gousias

Which one of the screen protectors would you recommend? So far, from someone who has purchased one of these, any review? Apart from this site http://www.protectionfilms24.com/pr...tml?geraeteklasse=1&marke=Suunto&modell=30396 do you consider that there is also some other store?


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## bcalvanese

Here is a comparison I did today with my Fenix 5 and Ambit 3 Peak.

Wore both devices on my left wrist. GPS set to best/GPS+GLONASS.
Both set to 1 second recording.
F5 OHR, and A3P chest strap

F5
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1688796912

A3P
bcalvanese's 1:06 h Trail running Move

MyGPSFiles tracks
MyGPSFiles

Looks pretty darn good to me.


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## dogrunner

Open view of sky? What's up with the altitude tracks? A3P is roughly flat, which maybe is the correct one for running on a path around a lake? I realize the F5 is "only" a 5 meter fluctuation - is it also barometric or is it gps altitude?


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## bcalvanese

dogrunner said:


> Open view of sky? What's up with the altitude tracks? A3P is roughly flat, which maybe is the correct one for running on a path around a lake? I realize the F5 is "only" a 5 meter fluctuation - is it also barometric or is it gps altitude?


The A3P had been sitting in my bag for well over a month and had not been calibrated for probably longer than that. Also, i think the F5 auto calibrates at the start of an activity.


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## bcalvanese

*Final Conclusion*

After using the fenix 5 for at least 2 weeks I have decided to go back to the Spartan Ultra.

GPS was good but distance seemed off compared to actual known distance. This threw pace off and also pace is erratic.

VO2max was way off. Said my fitness level was poor, and even though it went up slightly in 2 weeks, it did not go up by much, and I know my fitness level is not poor. Always had this issue with Garmin devices.

Settings saved on watch did not save in GC mobile, and next sync would set the watch settings back to what was in GC mobile.

The new advanced metrics (the ones that say you have to use it for a couple weeks) seemed to be moving in the right direction, but now seem more gimmicky than of having any real value.

Information on the watch say different from the same information on GC mobile and the website.

At least twice in the 2 weeks I went to view a workout in GC mobile after saving and it said it could not load the workout. I had to physically import the file from the watch via USB to the website to get the workout to come up so I could view it.

Battery life was very good.

OHR sensor worked very well (best I have seen in an OHR device) both for daily tracking and the workouts that I do (running, power walking, and power walk/run intervals.

I had the Spartan Ultra before and like it a lot. I probably jumped the gun because I wanted to try the new devices. I'm impulsive that way...

Anyway, all these cool new features are only good if they work and the device is something you can depend on. I have always had issues with Garmin devices and hoped that the F5 would be better, but the same issues just seem to carry over to new devices and never get resolved.

Sorry Garmin, but I need a device I can depend on.


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## martowl

bcalvanese said:


> *Final Conclusion*
> 
> After using the fenix 5 for at least 2 weeks I have decided to go back to the Spartan Ultra.
> 
> Sorry Garmin, but I need a device I can depend on.


Thanks for the summary. The changes since you "left" are great improvements to the mobile app for syncing. My syncing used to be highly errratic and now on iOS with the latest app update my syncing is as reliable as the A3P was. Zoom in Nav is something I am using more that I thought I would as yesterday I downloaded a route and followed it (partway) and the trail was quite primitive and hard to find. Intervals are nice to have but structured workouts on the Spartan do not exist, one area where Garmin is clearly superior. I do expect that to improve and I do know that updates are still coming.


----------



## bcalvanese

martowl said:


> Thanks for the summary. The changes since you "left" are great improvements to the mobile app for syncing. My syncing used to be highly errratic and now on iOS with the latest app update my syncing is as reliable as the A3P was. Zoom in Nav is something I am using more that I thought I would as yesterday I downloaded a route and followed it (partway) and the trail was quite primitive and hard to find. Intervals are nice to have but structured workouts on the Spartan do not exist, one area where Garmin is clearly superior. I do expect that to improve and I do know that updates are still coming.


Yeah, i just got the IOS update last night and have had 0 issues syncing with my iPhone 7+ since.

I mapped out a 9 mile trail route at a near by park last night to try out the navigate features today on a trail run. Some of the trails i have been on a few times and others i have not. I don't really use structured workouts, but I do like doing intervals a lot of the time. I just go by how I'm feeling and push myself if not in recovery mode.


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## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> *Final Conclusion*
> 
> After using the fenix 5 for at least 2 weeks I have decided to go back to the Spartan Ultra.
> Battery life was very good.
> Sorry Garmin, but I need a device I can depend on.


Odd, that you did that, but, I find myself in almost the same boat. I've seen the altitude on the watch (F5) vary sitting at the kitchen table, and I don't remember about the Ultra. I'm almost to the point of doing the same thing as you, but not quite. For me, the Movescount data is a hands down winner, the tracks that I did get to do with the Ultra were beautiful, but then, I've not had that bad of tracks with the F5. I have discovered that if I want accurate Heart Rate measurements, I do need to wear the chest strap, which negates the WHR on the F5, so that's a wasy. For those times that it's not "that important", (short mall walks due to rain/snow/etc), I have a Scosche Rhythm+, which is pretty accurate, much more so than the WHR on the F5. Another wash. The only thing that I do like is the 24 hour heart rate, and the auto sleep tracking, however, I'm pretty consistent with that, and the purchase of a fitbit would solve that little delimma. 
I've not had the problems (yet) with the upload of activities, however, I do know that GC does like to have an active internet connection or it won't upload the activity, I forget about the Ultra, never really tested it. I don't know about the Metrics of VO2Max/LT, etc, because I actually don't do anything that will generate that data, don't have a power meter for my bike, and due to knees that don't work right anymore, running is out too, so any data produced by Garmin along those lines are a question mark, and more of a gimmick than anything else. I really DO like the various activity definitions in Movescount, as I do Yoga, and Circuit training, that I have to use the "cardio" activity for in GC, which, if both companies are to be believed, each activity is tweaked to coincide with the type of activity. ie. Yoga doesn't generate the calorie burn that Circuit training does, or that's what Polar says.  
On battery life, the F5 does win that battle, as I'm getting close to 2 weeks out of the F5, where I got only 1 week out of the Spartan. Is that about what you've seen?
Okay, now to make a decision, like you, I really do like playing with the "newest" and "best", toys out there, and I really do wish that we could see what's in the future for the Spartans. I think that there may be more updates, as that's how they work, as opposed to Garmin in that from what I've seen, updates only come until the next new device they put out. I do like the Barometric altimeter, and sapphire glass of the Ultra, as opposed to the SSWHR, and when I had mine, it was really pretty much useless for accuracy, that's why I sent it back. However, I did like the Ultra.. 
Okay, just a few points, looking for more possible input before my decision..


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## bcalvanese

sb029111 said:


> Odd, that you did that, but, I find myself in almost the same boat. I've seen the altitude on the watch (F5) vary sitting at the kitchen table, and I don't remember about the Ultra. I'm almost to the point of doing the same thing as you, but not quite. For me, the Movescount data is a hands down winner, the tracks that I did get to do with the Ultra were beautiful, but then, I've not had that bad of tracks with the F5. I have discovered that if I want accurate Heart Rate measurements, I do need to wear the chest strap, which negates the WHR on the F5, so that's a wasy. For those times that it's not "that important", (short mall walks due to rain/snow/etc), I have a Scosche Rhythm+, which is pretty accurate, much more so than the WHR on the F5. Another wash. The only thing that I do like is the 24 hour heart rate, and the auto sleep tracking, however, I'm pretty consistent with that, and the purchase of a fitbit would solve that little delimma.
> I've not had the problems (yet) with the upload of activities, however, I do know that GC does like to have an active internet connection or it won't upload the activity, I forget about the Ultra, never really tested it. I don't know about the Metrics of VO2Max/LT, etc, because I actually don't do anything that will generate that data, don't have a power meter for my bike, and due to knees that don't work right anymore, running is out too, so any data produced by Garmin along those lines are a question mark, and more of a gimmick than anything else. I really DO like the various activity definitions in Movescount, as I do Yoga, and Circuit training, that I have to use the "cardio" activity for in GC, which, if both companies are to be believed, each activity is tweaked to coincide with the type of activity. ie. Yoga doesn't generate the calorie burn that Circuit training does, or that's what Polar says.
> On battery life, the F5 does win that battle, as I'm getting close to 2 weeks out of the F5, where I got only 1 week out of the Spartan. Is that about what you've seen?
> Okay, now to make a decision, like you, I really do like playing with the "newest" and "best", toys out there, and I really do wish that we could see what's in the future for the Spartans. I think that there may be more updates, as that's how they work, as opposed to Garmin in that from what I've seen, updates only come until the next new device they put out. I do like the Barometric altimeter, and sapphire glass of the Ultra, as opposed to the SSWHR, and when I had mine, it was really pretty much useless for accuracy, that's why I sent it back. However, I did like the Ultra..
> Okay, just a few points, looking for more possible input before my decision..


I wanted to like the F5, but started seeing the same issues as other Garmin's i have owned. Just not worth going through this for yet another year, and even then they still dont get resolved. They just carry right over to the next new devices.

I think the Spartan Ultra battery life is at least as good as the F5. I only got 1 week out of the Spartan Sport OHR (if that) though, but the Ultra should give about 15 days in watch mode. I also like the display on the Spartan way more than the F5. It's much easier to read with my old eyes.

I work hard on my fitness and just want a device I can depend on to give me the right result, and work every time.

Suunto falls into this category, but Garmin does not. IMHO.


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## th3oretiker

In my experience, Garmin watches use only the first 12 minutes of each activity to estimate VO2max, based on the standard cooper test. Factors are probably the distance covered and the average %HRmax (or "%MHR") reached in these 12 minutes. If you start your activities with slow warm-up jogging or go uphill during it, you will not get a decent VO2max rating on a garmin watch.


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## cmbauer

I really want to love this device. I get that its an outdoors watch with sports. But the smart notifications could be a bit a better. Unless when I had it I didnt know how to use the notifications. Say you get 5 emails, can you clear each one or do you just get notified and shown one email?


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## gousias

At 15:00 the battery was 34% and I left home wearing the wHR SSS and without getting on any Sport mode or excercise only notifications were on... just now the watch turned off! Any ideas?


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## Egika

cmbauer said:


> I really want to love this device. I get that its an outdoors watch with sports. But the smart notifications could be a bit a better. Unless when I had it I didnt know how to use the notifications. Say you get 5 emails, can you clear each one or do you just get notified and shown one email?


All 5 notifications are shown for around 10s one after the other.
Suunto doesn't want you to constantly scroll through your mails and burn the battery.


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## MichelleWater

So any update here? I tried the Sport HR and Ultra in person and it was too large for my taste as I have a small wrist(average size for most women, but small when compared to the average size dude). I haven't been able to see a Trainer in person. I think of think it's the ugly duckling of the Spartan line with the Ultra being the best looking. In the past week watched waaaay too many videos on youtube, read comments, and many beside DC and Riz, who people say are biased(I can see DC being so, but not riz as he gave in his 2017 best fitness watch an editor pick to the suunto spartan sport hr). Many of the negative comments come from the Suutno app not being good and battery life being it's downfall. If wanted I could possibly pay for the Fenix 5 or 5s(would lean towards that as I think the 5 is almost the Sport size), but I don't think it's worth $550 for F5s if GPS and other minor issues are still there, but all the sites still say F5 is pretty much worth the extra for a more feature filled and stable watch(not sure if that last part is true?). Ugh


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## MichelleWater

Also a lot of those same people suggest the Ambit3 as it has more features for outdoors people, which is odd.


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## Egika

Ambit3 is not smaller than the Spartans.
Yes, it has more (or better: other) features - I don't see why this would be odd. It's different models that differ in functions.


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## pizzaslut

I think it may have to do with this idea that newer = better/more features or something of the sort.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

MichelleWater said:


> So any update here? I tried the Sport HR and Ultra in person and it was too large for my taste as I have a small wrist(average size for most women, but small when compared to the average size dude). I haven't been able to see a Trainer in person. I think of think it's the ugly duckling of the Spartan line with the Ultra being the best looking. In the past week watched waaaay too many videos on youtube, read comments, and many beside DC and Riz, who people say are biased(I can see DC being so, but not riz as he gave in his 2017 best fitness watch an editor pick to the suunto spartan sport hr). Many of the negative comments come from the Suutno app not being good and battery life being it's downfall. If wanted I could possibly pay for the Fenix 5 or 5s(would lean towards that as I think the 5 is almost the Sport size), but I don't think it's worth $550 for F5s if GPS and other minor issues are still there, but all the sites still say F5 is pretty much worth the extra for a more feature filled and stable watch(not sure if that last part is true?). Ugh


Well, one of the big problems there is that most people (I think) created their reviews and never updated them while the Spartan line developed further, especially in terms of software.

With the app, for example, a similar effect is in play (again, I think) as the reviews/ratings came over a long time, during which there have been disconnects that made it barely usable. Also, if you come from Garmin's app with the plethora of data it shows you on your phone, you will consider the Movescoung app as very basic.

Similar thing with the Spartan. As mentioned just above my comment here, there is a strong "new = better" effect... which the Spartan Ultra managed to disappoint badly when it came out. Still a lot of bad blood because of that (and there are still features missing that were initially announced).

Anyways, if the Spartans are too big for you, then the fenix are going to be too big as well, except for the 5s. Ambit would probably fit even worse (size + the GPS "nose").

fenix performance, it seems, is still good or bad. Just, like the Ambit3 built up on the 1 and 2 software, so the fenix5 uses the fenix3 software. Which wasn't good when it came out, but seems pretty stable by now. With other upsides and downsides than the Spartan's...

"Ugh" is probably the best summary when it comes to deciding...


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## martowl

sb029111 said:


> Odd, that you did that, but, I find myself in almost the same boat. The only thing that I do like is the 24 hour heart rate, and the auto sleep tracking, however, I'm pretty consistent with that, and the purchase of a fitbit would solve that little delimma.
> I've not had the problems (yet) with the upload of activities, however, I do know that GC does like to have an active internet connection or it won't upload the activity, I forget about the Ultra, never really tested it. I don't know about the Metrics of VO2Max/LT, etc, because I actually don't do anything that will generate that data, don't have a power meter for my bike, and due to knees that don't work right anymore, running is out too, so any data produced by Garmin along those lines are a question mark, and more of a gimmick than anything else. I really DO like the various activity definitions in Movescount, as I do Yoga, and Circuit training, that I have to use the "cardio" activity for in GC, which, if both companies are to be believed, each activity is tweaked to coincide with the type of activity. ie. Yoga doesn't generate the calorie burn that Circuit training does, or that's what Polar says.
> On battery life, the F5 does win that battle, as I'm getting close to 2 weeks out of the F5, where I got only 1 week out of the Spartan. Is that about what you've seen?
> Okay, now to make a decision, like you, I really do like playing with the "newest" and "best", toys out there, and I really do wish that we could see what's in the future for the Spartans. I think that there may be more updates, as that's how they work, as opposed to Garmin in that from what I've seen, updates only come until the next new device they put out. I do like the Barometric altimeter, and sapphire glass of the Ultra, as opposed to the SSWHR, and when I had mine, it was really pretty much useless for accuracy, that's why I sent it back. However, I did like the Ultra..
> Okay, just a few points, looking for more possible input before my decision..


Battery life is tough. For what you want the fenix may be better but....I find that when I allow screen sleep it helps with battery life. So if you do not need to see your exercise parameters, put the screen to sleep and hit a button to see when you want. On Good GPS fix I have been able to get far more than the 26h stated. On best fix it helps but not as much. The Spartans are going to get sleep tracking and a major outdoor update in October.


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## martowl

MichelleWater said:


> So any update here? I tried the Sport HR and Ultra in person and it was too large for my taste as I have a small wrist(average size for most women, but small when compared to the average size dude). I haven't been able to see a Trainer in person. I think of think it's the ugly duckling of the Spartan line with the Ultra being the best looking. In the past week watched waaaay too many videos on youtube, read comments, and many beside DC and Riz, who people say are biased(I can see DC being so, but not riz as he gave in his 2017 best fitness watch an editor pick to the suunto spartan sport hr). Many of the negative comments come from the Suutno app not being good and battery life being it's downfall. If wanted I could possibly pay for the Fenix 5 or 5s(would lean towards that as I think the 5 is almost the Sport size), but I don't think it's worth $550 for F5s if GPS and other minor issues are still there, but all the sites still say F5 is pretty much worth the extra for a more feature filled and stable watch(not sure if that last part is true?). Ugh


The premium Trainers look nice....why not Gold or steel versions? The Trainer is very light and much less expensive. I'll bet it would fit your wrist. I posted some photos for comparisons on folks wrists awhile back.


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## bomba

MichelleWater said:


> So any update here? I tried the Sport HR and Ultra in person and it was too large for my taste as I have a small wrist(average size for most women, but small when compared to the average size dude). I haven't been able to see a Trainer in person. I think of think it's the ugly duckling of the Spartan line with the Ultra being the best looking. In the past week watched waaaay too many videos on youtube, read comments, and many beside DC and Riz, who people say are biased(I can see DC being so, but not riz as he gave in his 2017 best fitness watch an editor pick to the suunto spartan sport hr). Many of the negative comments come from the Suutno app not being good and battery life being it's downfall. If wanted I could possibly pay for the Fenix 5 or 5s(would lean towards that as I think the 5 is almost the Sport size), but I don't think it's worth $550 for F5s if GPS and other minor issues are still there, but all the sites still say F5 is pretty much worth the extra for a more feature filled and stable watch(not sure if that last part is true?). Ugh


The fenix 5s has its issues as with most wrist hrm watches. The hrm is not accurate when the weather is cold and dry. Once your skin warms up a little, the hrm will be normal again.

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk


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## iridium7777

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Anyways, if the Spartans are too big for you, then the fenix are going to be too big as well, except for the 5s. Ambit would probably fit even worse (size + the GPS "nose").


i disagree with this statement. the normal 5 is smaller than any recent SUUNTO offering (includes all Ambits and Spartans) albeit for the trainer. the 5s would be even much smaller. the 5X is about the same size as the suuntos.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

iridium7777 said:


> i disagree with this statement. the normal 5 is smaller than any recent SUUNTO offering (includes all Ambits and Spartans) albeit for the trainer. the 5s would be even much smaller. the 5X is about the same size as the suuntos.


Ah, I was under the impression that the fenix 5 and 5X were the same size. Only had the 5X recently for a look. (If anyone's interested, just published my look at the navigation, already published my impressions of overall features a little while back.)


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## blizzz

From your videos i do not get a proper feeling or your opinion how does it compare to suunto.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

blizzz said:


> From your videos i do not get a proper feeling or your opinion how does it compare to suunto.


I assume you mean me? I don't think it compares / don't like the approach of everyone just seeking the black-and-white of what's best, what's nothing.

The GPS tracks I got from fenix 5X vs. Spartans make me rather happier with Suunto again -> comparison post is here - but I have tended to like the Suunto approach of rather getting out of the way, anyways. My favorite feature on the Spartan so far is the total display timeout, so that I can get the data recorded, can have a look at it if I need to, but otherwise can just run and see nothing on the watch when I look at it.

If you want to have something smartwatch-like, have the feel that you really truly get your money's worth in terms of features, data recording and sync, etc., then there's a good chance the fenix 5X wins for you. As I mention in the post I link to above, I don't even see so much of a problem with the strange GPS I had, given that I was always shown right on the map when I checked. But then, there's a reason I don't do the statistical analysis that fellrnr does.

When it comes to outright smartwatch functions, including maps, I have really liked the Casio ProTrek Smart. Much more than I thought I would. And that has its deep flaws, too...

So, my opinion: Get the right tool for the job and for your personality. Everything has flaws now, everything offers some similar functionality, everything offers something different that may or may not be the essential difference to you.

With www.timeandtours.com, I've deliberately decided to make a new blog where I want to give a feel, less for my opinions than for the products and how they work in practice, for those who can't just go to a store and try them out for themselves (which is me, too, actually).


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## blizzz

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> I assume you mean me? I don't think it compares / don't like the approach of everyone just seeking the black-and-white of what's best, what's nothing.
> 
> The GPS tracks I got from fenix 5X vs. Spartans make me rather happier with Suunto again -> comparison post is here - but I have tended to like the Suunto approach of rather getting out of the way, anyways. My favorite feature on the Spartan so far is the total display timeout, so that I can get the data recorded, can have a look at it if I need to, but otherwise can just run and see nothing on the watch when I look at it.
> 
> If you want to have something smartwatch-like, have the feel that you really truly get your money's worth in terms of features, data recording and sync, etc., then there's a good chance the fenix 5X wins for you. As I mention in the post I link to above, I don't even see so much of a problem with the strange GPS I had, given that I was always shown right on the map when I checked. But then, there's a reason I don't do the statistical analysis that fellrnr does.
> 
> When it comes to outright smartwatch functions, including maps, I have really liked the Casio ProTrek Smart. Much more than I thought I would. And that has its deep flaws, too...
> 
> So, my opinion: Get the right tool for the job and for your personality. Everything has flaws now, everything offers some similar functionality, everything offers something different that may or may not be the essential difference to you.
> 
> With www.timeandtours.com, I've deliberately decided to make a new blog where I want to give a feel, less for my opinions than for the products and how they work in practice, for those who can't just go to a store and try them out for themselves (which is me, too, actually).


I did not want to say that you need to say at the end Suunto or Garmin is better.

I just expected to give us more views about each watch. I like your approach when testing in general and all what you said in post above.

But maybe you can not say it since you are official Suunto tester. So i can understand you can not say something positive about other brands. 

Take care.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

blizzz said:


> I did not want to say that you need to say at the end Suunto or Garmin is better.
> 
> I just expected to give us more views about each watch. I like your approach when testing in general and all what you said in post above.
> 
> But maybe you can not say it since you are official Suunto tester. So i can understand you can not say something positive about other brands.
> 
> Take care.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nah, I can say what I want about what I want. Have to admit, I wish I could just get what I want and not have to bother with the companies so much, like DC can. But my income from testing/reviewing stuff is a financial loss, really


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## blizzz

Yeah sure you can say or do what you want. Nobody said you can not. I am not blaiming just saying what i want  anyway thank you for your effort and testing anyway. Take care and greetings from neighbor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Egika

Gerald Zhang-Schmidt said:


> Nah, I can say what I want about what I want. Have to admit, I wish I could just get what I want and not have to bother with the companies so much, like DC can. But my income from testing/reviewing stuff is a financial loss, really


OT: why are you doing it then?


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## bcalvanese

I know it's been a while since I started this thread, but just wanted to give an update.

Finally settled on the fenix 5x.

Didn't think I would like the maps, but turns out they come in quite handy when using courses. I can follow the course and also see any other trails too. So if I decide I want to venture off course, I have that ability.

Garmin seems to have really stepped up their game on resolving most of the bugs, and I am getting to the point now where I can actually start depending on this device without feeling like I have to wear my A3P just in case.

I have been getting accurate and consistent results and I don't feel like smashing it with a hammer like I did with my fenix 3HR...

GPS
good tracks and distance consistently.

OHRS
best I have seen in optical sensor so far (only tested with power walking/running/trail running). I have compared it with my A3P w/chest strap monitor many times.

Battery life
good battery life. I can get a full week out of it, and that is with 1 second recording, GPS+GLONASS, and doing 30-150 minute workouts with GPS just about daily.

Fitness Metrics
I like the fitness metrics and they seem to be learning my patterns, and seem to be pretty accurate so far.

The main problem I had with the fenix line where all the bugs and inconsistent data, but like I said, Garmin seems to be really stepping up there game, and their feature set is bar none as it stands right now IMO.

I still have that little voice in the back of my head telling me that something bad will happen, and I keep waiting for it to, but so far so good, and that little voice is getting fainter with time.


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## Gerald Zhang-Schmidt

Egika said:


> OT: why are you doing it then?


Not for money, obviously.

Though, hey, if anyone wants to help, I do have a Patreon...

Can't leave that field to no one other than DC


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## sb029111

bcalvanese said:


> I know it's been a while since I started this thread, but just wanted to give an update.
> 
> Finally settled on the fenix 5x.
> 
> Didn't think I would like the maps, but turns out they come in quite handy when using courses. I can follow the course and also see any other trails too. So if I decide I want to venture off course, I have that ability.
> 
> Garmin seems to have really stepped up their game on resolving most of the bugs, and I am getting to the point now where I can actually start depending on this device without feeling like I have to wear my A3P just in case.
> 
> I have been getting accurate and consistent results and I don't feel like smashing it with a hammer like I did with my fenix 3HR...
> 
> GPS
> good tracks and distance consistently.
> 
> OHRS
> best I have seen in optical sensor so far (only tested with power walking/running/trail running). I have compared it with my A3P w/chest strap monitor many times.
> 
> Battery life
> good battery life. I can get a full week out of it, and that is with 1 second recording, GPS+GLONASS, and doing 30-150 minute workouts with GPS just about daily.
> 
> Fitness Metrics
> I like the fitness metrics and they seem to be learning my patterns, and seem to be pretty accurate so far.
> 
> The main problem I had with the fenix line where all the bugs and inconsistent data, but like I said, Garmin seems to be really stepping up there game, and their feature set is bar none as it stands right now IMO.
> 
> I still have that little voice in the back of my head telling me that something bad will happen, and I keep waiting for it to, but so far so good, and that little voice is getting fainter with time.


Bcalvanese, Long time no see in here.  Well, I too have evolved, and after owning an SSU, SSWHR, Fenix 5, Fenix 5x, have finally decided on an Apple Watch, Stainless steel, series two that I picked up off E-bay for $250, with a year of Apple Care included. I have to say that after the WatchOS version 4, the Apple watch does virtually everything that my Fenix 5, and/or any of the other watches do, does it better, less money, and with a clearer screen. There is ONE drawback that differentiates the AW from the others, and that's of course, battery life. However, as I usually spend an hour or so in front of the computer catching up each morning, that's plenty of time to recharge the watch for the days use.
WatchOS4 is really great for what I do, Mall walks, hiking, cycling, both indoor and outdoor, and exercise classes. Also good for swimming, both indoor, and open water, with the cool little feature that will squirt water out the watch after you're done. 
One thing that I discovered that the AW will do that the Suunto's can't do, even after a year of introducing the "ultimate sports watch", is I can pair multiple Bluetooth heart rate monitors with the watch at the same time, and it will automagically pick up which one is active. I know the Fenix does that, but Suunto hasn't figured out the code for this yet.
All in all, I'm pretty happy with my choice, after having spent a bundle of money trying each one out, individually, and coming up with which one suits ME and MY ATIVITIES the best.
Of course, to quote Rainmaker, "your mileage may vary"..


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## martowl

sb029111 said:


> Bcalvanese, Long time no see in here.  Well, I too have evolved, and after owning an SSU, SSWHR, Fenix 5, Fenix 5x, have finally decided on an Apple Watch, Stainless steel, series two that I picked up off E-bay for $250, with a year of Apple Care included.
> All in all, I'm pretty happy with my choice, after having spent a bundle of money trying each one out, individually, and coming up with which one suits ME and MY ATIVITIES the best.
> Of course, to quote Rainmaker, "your mileage may vary"..


If you are at all interested Stryd has an app ported to the watch that is working quite nicely for folks. My wife has an AW and I have been very tempted to try it as a daily watch as my runs are rarely longer than 1.5-2h on weekdays. I would use the SSU on the weekends but just can't justify the $....The Stryd native app for the watch has tempted me though. If you are interested in a Stryd, take a look at the website. They are very responsive and the individuals using the app are pretty happy with it. The 5k runner has a short review here. Glad you found something you like that works...the AW is clearly the best or at least a great smartwatch.


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## bcalvanese

sb029111 said:


> Bcalvanese, Long time no see in here.  Well, I too have evolved, and after owning an SSU, SSWHR, Fenix 5, Fenix 5x, have finally decided on an Apple Watch, Stainless steel, series two that I picked up off E-bay for $250, with a year of Apple Care included. I have to say that after the WatchOS version 4, the Apple watch does virtually everything that my Fenix 5, and/or any of the other watches do, does it better, less money, and with a clearer screen. There is ONE drawback that differentiates the AW from the others, and that's of course, battery life. However, as I usually spend an hour or so in front of the computer catching up each morning, that's plenty of time to recharge the watch for the days use.
> WatchOS4 is really great for what I do, Mall walks, hiking, cycling, both indoor and outdoor, and exercise classes. Also good for swimming, both indoor, and open water, with the cool little feature that will squirt water out the watch after you're done.
> One thing that I discovered that the AW will do that the Suunto's can't do, even after a year of introducing the "ultimate sports watch", is I can pair multiple Bluetooth heart rate monitors with the watch at the same time, and it will automagically pick up which one is active. I know the Fenix does that, but Suunto hasn't figured out the code for this yet.
> All in all, I'm pretty happy with my choice, after having spent a bundle of money trying each one out, individually, and coming up with which one suits ME and MY ATIVITIES the best.
> Of course, to quote Rainmaker, "your mileage may vary"..


sb029111,

glad that you're happy with the apple watch. I actually returned the fenix 5x so I could try out the fitbit ionic. I wound up returning it because I started having syncing issues, and went back to the fenix 5 (non sapphire). they where on sale for $499 ($100 off at bestbuy). I was thinking of trying the apple watch but I would have to switch to an iPhone, but I love my galaxy note 8 too much to do that... . I did try an apple watch series 1 when they first came out, but the heart rate was not accurate enough, and it did not give enough advanced fitness metrics for me. I don't really use the smartwatch features anyway, and I always have my phone with me when I workout in case of emergencies anyway. the only smart feature I really use is if I get a call or text when I am working out, so I don't have to dig my phone out while running.

I mainly want a fitness watch, and really prefer a non-touch screen device. the fenix 5 does everything that I need, and as I stated earlier garmin has really stepped up their game with fixing most of the bugs over the past year.

I also prefer better battery life as I track my sleep too, and can get at least a full week out of the fenix 5 even with daily workouts.

best of luck with your apple watch and keep us posted as to how it is working out for you.


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## bruceames

bcalvanese said:


> sb029111,
> 
> glad that you're happy with the apple watch. I actually returned the fenix 5x so I could try out the fitbit ionic. I wound up returning it because I started having syncing issues, and went back to the fenix 5 (non sapphire). they where on sale for $499 ($100 off at bestbuy). I was thinking of trying the apple watch but I would have to switch to an iPhone, but I love my galaxy note 8 too much to do that... . I did try an apple watch series 1 when they first came out, but the heart rate was not accurate enough, and it did not give enough advanced fitness metrics for me. I don't really use the smartwatch features anyway, and I always have my phone with me when I workout in case of emergencies anyway. the only smart feature I really use is if I get a call or text when I am working out, so I don't have to dig my phone out while running.
> 
> I mainly want a fitness watch, and really prefer a non-touch screen device. the fenix 5 does everything that I need, and as I stated earlier garmin has really stepped up their game with fixing most of the bugs over the past year.
> 
> I also prefer better battery life as I track my sleep too, and can get at least a full week out of the fenix 5 even with daily workouts.
> 
> best of luck with your apple watch and keep us posted as to how it is working out for you.


Just curious, how many watches have you returned in the last year?


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## bcalvanese

bruceames said:


> Just curious, how many watches have you returned in the last year?


That's a great question, because I have no idea...lol

I can tell you how many devices that I have had at least one of over the past 3 years though...

Suunto Spartan Ultra
Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR
Suunto Ambit 3 Peak (still have)
Garmin fenix 5x
Garmin fenix 5 (current)
Garmin fenix 3 HR
Garmin fenix 3
Garmin Vivoactive 3
Garmin Vivoactive HR
Garmin Vivoactive
Polar V800 (still have)
Polar M600
Polar M400
Polar A360
TomTom Spark 3
TomTom Adventurer
Apple Watch Original
Apple Watch Series 1
Fitbit Ionic
Fitbit Blaze (still have)
Fitbit Surge
Samsung Gear Sport
Samsung Gear Fit
Microsoft Band 2
Basis Peak
Jawbone UD2 (my first activity tracker that started all this madness)

I am compulsive with these things, and I just can't stop myself from trying them all...

I will never get rid of my Ambit 3 Peak because I use that to test other devices (GPS, HR, Etc...).

I think part of the reason is that it keeps me motivated to exercise more, and I do manage to get at least 1 workout in just about every single day.

A few years ago I was obese and so out of shape that the doctors told me if I didn't start exercising, lose weight, and quit smoking, that I would not be around much longer. I had to get surgery for diverticulitis, and because of my condition they had to test my heart and lungs before they would do the surgery. They uncovered COPD and part of the bottom of my heart was enlarged. They said I had a heart attack at some point.

Now they are in AWE because after almost 3 years of cardio exercise all my tests come back fine now.

So if being compulsive keeps me motivated to stay in shape, and the return policies say I can return within so many days if I'm not satisfied, then why not experiment a little?

I have learned a lot about fitness wearables too...lol


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## bruceames

bcalvanese said:


> That's a great question, because I have no idea...lol
> 
> I can tell you how many devices that I have had at least one of over the past 3 years though...
> 
> Suunto Spartan Ultra
> Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR
> Suunto Ambit 3 Peak (still have)
> Garmin fenix 5x
> Garmin fenix 5 (current)
> Garmin fenix 3 HR
> Garmin fenix 3
> Garmin Vivoactive 3
> Garmin Vivoactive HR
> Garmin Vivoactive
> Polar V800 (still have)
> Polar M600
> Polar M400
> Polar A360
> TomTom Spark 3
> TomTom Adventurer
> Apple Watch Original
> Apple Watch Series 1
> Fitbit Ionic
> Fitbit Blaze (still have)
> Fitbit Surge
> Samsung Gear Sport
> Samsung Gear Fit
> Microsoft Band 2
> Basis Peak
> Jawbone UD2 (my first activity tracker that started all this madness)
> 
> I am compulsive with these things, and I just can't stop myself from trying them all...
> 
> I will never get rid of my Ambit 3 Peak because I use that to test other devices (GPS, HR, Etc...).
> 
> I think part of the reason is that it keeps me motivated to exercise more, and I do manage to get at least 1 workout in just about every single day.
> 
> A few years ago I was obese and so out of shape that the doctors told me if I didn't start exercising, lose weight, and quit smoking, that I would not be around much longer. I had to get surgery for diverticulitis, and because of my condition they had to test my heart and lungs before they would do the surgery. They uncovered COPD and part of the bottom of my heart was enlarged. They said I had a heart attack at some point.
> 
> Now they are in AWE because after almost 3 years of cardio exercise all my tests come back fine now.
> 
> So if being compulsive keeps me motivated to stay in shape, and the return policies say I can return within so many days if I'm not satisfied, then why not experiment a little?
> 
> I have learned a lot about fitness wearables too...lol


Whoa. I'm somewhat of a gadget freak too, but mainly I'm a numbers guy. I look at my watch more than just about anyone during a run, checking pace, HR, elevation, distance, time, power, last lap data, etc. to see how I'm doing. But I like settling down with a watch I feel comfortable with and fortunately that has been the case with the SSU and the Ambit2 and 3 before it. I generally buy a new watch every 2 years or so and keep the old ones, lol.


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## PTBC

bcalvanese said:


> That's a great question, because I have no idea...lol
> 
> I can tell you how many devices that I have had at least one of over the past 3 years though...
> 
> Suunto Spartan Ultra
> Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR
> Suunto Ambit 3 Peak (still have)
> Garmin fenix 5x
> Garmin fenix 5 (current)
> Garmin fenix 3 HR
> Garmin fenix 3
> Garmin Vivoactive 3
> Garmin Vivoactive HR
> Garmin Vivoactive
> Polar V800 (still have)
> Polar M600
> Polar M400
> Polar A360
> TomTom Spark 3
> TomTom Adventurer
> Apple Watch Original
> Apple Watch Series 1
> Fitbit Ionic
> Fitbit Blaze (still have)
> Fitbit Surge
> Samsung Gear Sport
> Samsung Gear Fit
> Microsoft Band 2
> Basis Peak
> Jawbone UD2 (my first activity tracker that started all this madness)
> 
> I am compulsive with these things, and I just can't stop myself from trying them all...
> 
> I will never get rid of my Ambit 3 Peak because I use that to test other devices (GPS, HR, Etc...).
> 
> I think part of the reason is that it keeps me motivated to exercise more, and I do manage to get at least 1 workout in just about every single day.
> 
> A few years ago I was obese and so out of shape that the doctors told me if I didn't start exercising, lose weight, and quit smoking, that I would not be around much longer. I had to get surgery for diverticulitis, and because of my condition they had to test my heart and lungs before they would do the surgery. They uncovered COPD and part of the bottom of my heart was enlarged. They said I had a heart attack at some point.
> 
> Now they are in AWE because after almost 3 years of cardio exercise all my tests come back fine now.
> 
> So if being compulsive keeps me motivated to stay in shape, and the return policies say I can return within so many days if I'm not satisfied, then why not experiment a little?
> 
> I have learned a lot about fitness wearables too...lol


Impressive, the story and the list

I picked up a budget Polar when my SSU went back for repair as they said it would be at least a month, then they decided to warranty replace it so it was only 10 days. I could return the Polar under the returns policy, but decided to just hang on to it as a backup and I like their interval training functionality (really shows how poor SSU still is in that area) and like having HR as a zone/% measure on the device for some of my interval sessions, well at least that's how I'm justifying it to myself and the wife ;o)

I just know if I picked up more I'd be terrible at returning them and end up with a draw full of devices


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## sb029111

bruceames said:


> Just curious, how many watches have you returned in the last year?


"Returned?" Two, one the Garmin 935, because every time I charged it, the HR would stop working for a day or two without warning. The other was a Fenix 5, (non-sapphire) for the same reason. I discovered later that if I rebooted the watch after every charge the problem would go away, but I didn't think I should have to do that for a $600-$700 watch.

Now, bought, and sold? A bunch, let's see, Suunto Spartan Sport WHR, Suunto Spartan Ultra, Fenix 5, Fenix 5 Sapphire, Fenix 5x, um, and before that, several Polars, including an M400, M600, V800 (best one so far), etc. I'm a true geek, and really like to "test" electronics rather than rely on reviews which I honestly feel are tainted. I've only been able to do this because when I do buy a watch, it's at a great price, and I know I can sell it for at least as much as I paid.. Otherwise, I'd be in the poorhouse!

But, it's been fun playing with all of the devices, including a couple of Edge units, and a Velocomp Power Pod, which I still own, but am probably going to sell, just won't need that type of data now that I'm only using the AW. The AW and it's simpler approach to overall health is best for me, and my lifestyle, condition, etc.
Enjoy, that's the bottom line, do what floats your boat, and keep it afloat..


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