# Thoughts on Breguet. Please help



## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

Hi guys, i am really close to pulling a trigger on breguet watch model Type xx translantique with date window on it. I saw it once from a dealer and it was pretty hot and what i like the most from breguet is that it is a specialized brand that nobody would know unless you are a watch person. But at the same time, it makes me so confused because this brand is soooo unpopular. even watchuseek does not have a sub forum for breguet and they got subforum for panerai, etc. what is the catch here?

so guys, should i get Breguet type xx translantigue? or should i go for more mainstream brand like rolex or omega. i only have 1 watch so far and that is omega aquaterra. i dont feel like getting moonwatch as it is pretty common and i wanna taste different brand. Also aesthetically, i like breguet more than omega speedy. What do you think about Breguet vs omega moonwatch? is breguet better? 

what do you think about breguet guys? particularly this model type xx. I just wanna hear your opinions. and if you own type xx translantique , how do you like it? 

thanks guys, appreciate your thoughts and inputs.


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## PJ S (Apr 29, 2013)

“Better” is 99% of the time a subjective term, and when it comes to watches (just like wines, cigars, kitchen knives, etc) the only thing that matters is what you prefer the look/feel/taste of.
There’s an acknowledged understanding why some people prefer the hot models from Rolex/Patek from a financial point of view, but that limits your scope of timepieces that you can enjoy – so go with what puts a great big smile on your face when wearing it.
You won’t make a wrong choice if you opt for the Breguet, and if cost of ownership is a concern, just be sure to buy at the right price, whether new or pre-owned.


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## mlcor (Oct 21, 2013)

PJ S said:


> "Better" is 99% of the time a subjective term, and when it comes to watches (just like wines, cigars, kitchen knives, etc) the only thing that matters is what you prefer the look/feel/taste of.
> There's an acknowledged understanding why some people prefer the hot models from Rolex/Patek from a financial point of view, but that limits your scope of timepieces that you can enjoy - so go with what puts a great big smile on your face when wearing it.
> You won't make a wrong choice if you opt for the Breguet, and if cost of ownership is a concern, just be sure to buy at the right price, whether new or pre-owned.


^^^^this, exactly.

I own a Breguet Marine and a Type XXI (Titanium version), as well as a Rolex Hulk (and some other stuff). Get what you like, those are all excellent brands. Unless you want people to know you wear a Rolex, in which case you can lean in that direction. None of the other brands will get a second glance from 99% of the people out there. The Moonwatch may be an icon to people who are into watches, but no one else will recognize it, let alone know about its significance historically.


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## Spangles (May 27, 2015)

rolexbaby said:


> But at the same time, it makes me so confused because this brand is soooo unpopular. even watchuseek does not have a sub forum for breguet and they got subforum for panerai, etc. what is the catch here?
> .


The catch is that you know very little about watches, at least for now. Please never admit to anyone that you tried to judge a watch by whether or not it had a subforum on watchuseek. We won't tell anyone, either.

Learning about watches is fun and you will have a lot of fun exploring and learning, so that is good.

People who like high end watches will often talk about what makes one watch a little further up on the scale of horology (there are threads you should look up here as we've talked it to death). Breguet is a high end brand and Rolex and Omega are not, for reasons you'll learn when you look up those discussions. The basic idea is that the finishing is finer and more hand work goes into a Breguet.

Just to reiterate the fine responses above mine, you should buy something you like for yourself, not based on what you think is popular or has a subforum.

I am wearing a Breguet right now and I can tell you I enjoy it very much.


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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

Spangles said:


> The catch is that you know very little about watches, at least for now. Please never admit to anyone that you tried to judge a watch by whether or not it had a subforum on watchuseek. We won't tell anyone, either.
> 
> Learning about watches is fun and you will have a lot of fun exploring and learning, so that is good.
> 
> ...


hello, thank you for the reply. really appreciate it buddy. yes, i know very little about watches. but not only forums, even when i googled breguet, it just doesnt have a lot of reviews like rolex, etc. can you please direct me in watchusek where you talked a lot about breguet as there is no subforum for it.

and also, what model of breguet you are wearing now? and can you tell me what you like about it? i like the type 20 but its like so unheard of. this is why i am asking for second opinion. do you think type 20 is better than moonwatch? do you think it is a nice watch? some reviews says type 20 is not really a breguet for whatever reason. can you comment on that?


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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

PJ S said:


> "Better" is 99% of the time a subjective term, and when it comes to watches (just like wines, cigars, kitchen knives, etc) the only thing that matters is what you prefer the look/feel/taste of.
> There's an acknowledged understanding why some people prefer the hot models from Rolex/Patek from a financial point of view, but that limits your scope of timepieces that you can enjoy - so go with what puts a great big smile on your face when wearing it.
> You won't make a wrong choice if you opt for the Breguet, and if cost of ownership is a concern, just be sure to buy at the right price, whether new or pre-owned.


hi thank you for this comment. i understand better is subjective. but can you give me your thoughts on this model type 20? is this good reliable watch? finishing is good?


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## PJ S (Apr 29, 2013)

https://monochrome-watches.com/breguet-type-xx-5-years-wrist/
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/t...the-breguet-type-xx-and-type-xxi-chronographs

There are more reviews and loads of high quality images to cast your eyes over, and at some point of doing your research, you'll either reach a conclusion that it's the one or the initial attraction has been tempered, and it no longer piques your interest.


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## Paulo 8135 (Mar 29, 2012)

Relevant:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f381/recognizability-high-end-watches-3511386.html


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## wilson007 (Feb 4, 2014)

I have a Type XX and love it. Having said that, I think it's the red headed stepchild of Breguet for a reason. The rest of the brand is full of Daniel Roth's hands. He made it into the 19th century, pocket watch style that became Breguet. The Type XX, on the other hand, is a continuation of it's authentic history from the post-war era.

At the end of the day, find me another sub-40mm watch with 100m water resistance, a rotating bezel, a date, and a flyback chrono from a reputable brand for under $10k (Except the Zenith rainbow, you love it or hate it). Look at it on paper against a Daytona, and there's not much contest.


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## wilson007 (Feb 4, 2014)

By the way, also... A ton of great brands don't have sub-forums. I have a Nomos that I love. No forum for that either.


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## Gofishus (Dec 31, 2017)

rolexbaby said:


> hello, thank you for the reply. really appreciate it buddy. yes, i know very little about watches. but not only forums, even when i googled breguet, it just doesnt have a lot of reviews like rolex, etc. can you please direct me in watchusek where you talked a lot about breguet as there is no subforum for it.
> 
> and also, what model of breguet you are wearing now? and can you tell me what you like about it? i like the type 20 but its like so unheard of. this is why i am asking for second opinion. do you think type 20 is better than moonwatch? do you think it is a nice watch? some reviews says type 20 is not really a breguet for whatever reason. can you comment on that?


The reason why Breguet is not as 'popular' as some other brands like Breitling, Panerai, Rolex etc is that it doesn't make a lot of watches. That in turn makes Breguet watches more rare and thus more valuable. You don't see a sub forum for Blancpain or Patek Phillipe here either and no one would argue those watches aren't great. They just don't produce enough quantity and/or not affordable to enough people to warrant a subforum thats why. But true watch connoisseurs know that a Breguet (which comes from arguably the greatest watchmaker ever Abraham-Louis Breguet), Blancpain, Patek Phillipe, etc are the cream of the crop and far above any Rolex or Omega.


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## PJ S (Apr 29, 2013)

Both those brands mentioned produce significantly more than AL&S, yet they have their own sub–forum — neither volume produced nor retail price strictly governs a brand having their own sub–forum.
Only admin knows why certain brands have one, and others don't.


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## omega1234 (May 17, 2012)

Love my Marine. Feel comfortable wearing it in anything from a suit to sweats, and the finishing is exquisite--a level of attention to detail that you just won't see from the Rolexes and Omegas of the world.


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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

wilson007 said:


> By the way, also... A ton of great brands don't have sub-forums. I have a Nomos that I love. No forum for that either.


yeahh i admit i was a bit silly. i just realized that holy trinity brand doesnt have subforum LOL.


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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

wilson007 said:


> I have a Type XX and love it. Having said that, I think it's the red headed stepchild of Breguet for a reason. The rest of the brand is full of Daniel Roth's hands. He made it into the 19th century, pocket watch style that became Breguet. The Type XX, on the other hand, is a continuation of it's authentic history from the post-war era.
> 
> At the end of the day, find me another sub-40mm watch with 100m water resistance, a rotating bezel, a date, and a flyback chrono from a reputable brand for under $10k (Except the Zenith rainbow, you love it or hate it). Look at it on paper against a Daytona, and there's not much contest.


hi wilson, so far your response has been the best. you are the owner and you give your opinion about this model. thank you so much sir.

if i may ask more. so how do you rate the robustness of this model type 20? is it robust? what about the finishing of this watch. is it top notch?
so if you compare rolex daytona vs this breguet, you think breguet is more superior? can you take this one to swim? i truly need your view and this is very helpful. sorry for asking too many questions


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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

omega1234 said:


> Love my Marine. Feel comfortable wearing it in anything from a suit to sweats, and the finishing is exquisite--a level of attention to detail that you just won't see from the Rolexes and Omegas of the world.


did you handle type 20 before? since thats like their basic model. is the finishing as good as your marine? i heard nothing about marine but positive things


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## Spangles (May 27, 2015)

PJ S said:


> Both those brands mentioned produce significantly more than AL&S, yet they have their own sub-forum - neither volume produced nor retail price strictly governs a brand having their own sub-forum.
> Only admin knows why certain brands have one, and others don't.


The original owner of watchuseek was an ALS fanboy. That's the reason for that subforum.


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## Gofishus (Dec 31, 2017)

Spangles said:


> The original owner of watchuseek was an ALS fanboy. That's the reason for that subforum.


Now that totally makes sense lol. ALS I think would be the 'fourth' member of the holy trinity of PP, VC and AP yet those ones didnt get their own subforums so it was a valid remark.


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## Paulo 8135 (Mar 29, 2012)

Gofishus said:


> Now that totally makes sense lol. ALS I think would be the 'fourth' member of the holy trinity of PP, VC and AP yet those ones didnt get their own subforums so it was a valid remark.


Relevant:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f381/breguet-up-there-pp-ap-als-vc-974720.html


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## Gofishus (Dec 31, 2017)

Paulo 8135 said:


> Relevant:
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f381/breguet-up-there-pp-ap-als-vc-974720.html


Just IMO I do consider that the top five. PP, VC, AP, ALS and Breguet. (with Blancpain following close behind imo)


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## omega1234 (May 17, 2012)

rolexbaby said:


> did you handle type 20 before? since thats like their basic model. is the finishing as good as your marine? i heard nothing about marine but positive things


I don't believe I've ever handled one, but I've always been a fan of the aesthetics and have entertained purchasing one before. As far as I can tell, the Type XX probably has a similar attention to detail on the casework, but the dial lacks the signature depth of most Breguets.


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## mlcor (Oct 21, 2013)

omega1234 said:


> I don't believe I've ever handled one, but I've always been a fan of the aesthetics and have entertained purchasing one before. As far as I can tell, the Type XX probably has a similar attention to detail on the casework, but the dial lacks the signature depth of most Breguets.


The Marine and the Type XX are very different animals. The guilloché dial of the Marine is a knockout, beautifully done, and the overall design of the watch nicely straddles the dress and sport categories, especially if you have multiple strap/bracelet options for it. Mine is always on the bracelet, but putting it on leather would make it far more dressy, while putting it on rubber would make it more suitable for the water (not that I'd do that with mine).

The Type XX, OTOH, is an homage (in the best sense of the word) to the original Breguet model from the 1950's. As such, as omega1234 points out, it doesn't have the depth of the Marine, because it's not supposed to--it's going for a different vibe. The attention to detail is the same IMO, but the details are different.

The Type XXI, which I also own in the titanium version, has a lot more depth in the dial but is also a bit larger than the Type XX. When I chose it over the Type XX, I did so because (1) the bracelet for the Type XX was too blingy/shiny for my tastes; (2) I liked the dial of the XXI and all its details; and (3) I like the lightness of titanium.

Here are a couple of macros of my Marine and Type XXI showing the attention to detail. First, the Marine:

















The Type XXI:


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## johnny action (Oct 8, 2011)

Archie Luxury loves Breguet. Pull the trigger with confidence. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fastfras (Jul 23, 2014)

rolexbaby said:


> Hi guys, i am really close to pulling a trigger on breguet watch model Type xx translantique with date window on it. I saw it once from a dealer and it was pretty hot and what i like the most from breguet is that it is a specialized brand that nobody would know unless you are a watch person. But at the same time, it makes me so confused because this brand is soooo unpopular. even watchuseek does not have a sub forum for breguet and they got subforum for panerai, etc. what is the catch here?
> 
> so guys, should i get Breguet type xx translantigue? or should i go for more mainstream brand like rolex or omega. i only have 1 watch so far and that is omega aquaterra. i dont feel like getting moonwatch as it is pretty common and i wanna taste different brand. Also aesthetically, i like breguet more than omega speedy. What do you think about Breguet vs omega moonwatch? is breguet better?
> 
> ...


I own the very watch in question. It's beautiful, if one can describe a watch in that way. I've also had it serviced. I love the watch, often wear it while I'm hanging around the house, carefully cradling my left arm as I move around objects that my wife has thoughtfully placed for me to bang my wrist against. It's a special piece.

However they're not the easiest watch to resell, I've posted vintage Rolex and Tudor sport watches here and they're gone, often the same day. Selling the XX could take some time. Servicing wasn't cheap yet neither is any mechanical chronograph. It has, to its credit maintained it's commendable timing as first received from the watchmaker.

You only have one other watch, a super nice one that I too hope to own someday, love the A/T. Meaning you're going to wear the XX quite a bit, right? Let me give you an analogy; my first cool car was purchased preowned (we called them used in those long ago days) in 1969, still have it, absolutely love the vehicle. Hardly ever drive it. See where I am going here? I'm not going to trash a highly thought after, highly sought after high end timepiece. However, you really need to consider your lifestyle and how much usage the Breguet will receive.

Personally I'd buy another Omega, Rolex or whatever and work into a Breguet. If you have a 5 or 6 piece collection of varied design and price point you can then justify owning a chronograph like this.

Feel free to PM me for costs associated with maintaining the watch, it's not that bad.

All Transatlantiques are date versions, the Aerovale is the non date watch.


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## fastfras (Jul 23, 2014)

johnny action said:


> Archie Luxury loves Breguet. Pull the trigger with confidence.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There's your closer, who could possibly go against such logic?


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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

fastfras said:


> I own the very watch in question. It's beautiful, if one can describe a watch in that way. I've also had it serviced. I love the watch, often wear it while I'm hanging around the house, carefully cradling my left arm as I move around objects that my wife has thoughtfully placed for me to bang my wrist against. It's a special piece.
> 
> However they're not the easiest watch to resell, I've posted vintage Rolex and Tudor sport watches here and they're gone, often the same day. Selling the XX could take some time. Servicing wasn't cheap yet neither is any mechanical chronograph. It has, to its credit maintained it's commendable timing as first received from the watchmaker.
> 
> ...


hello, thanks for your reply. its very nice to see another breguet type xx owner. i finally pulled the trigger and bought this piece. the first few days after i owned it, i was simply amazed lol. i also considered it to be beautiful. The dome on the sapphire crystal on this one is pretty special.

i also agree that the servicing cost for this one is killing and it is just a dog when it comes to resell this piece one day. this is just very unpopular watch. but so far i dont regret my decision for getting this over motm even though i paid more.

I have been wearing my breguet type xx since i bought it and i think i will wear it more often than my AT. the AT feels too dressy for me to be frank. ever since i got my type xx, the at just sits at home. i dont know, perhaps i am still in honey moon period but so far i like this more than my at. it feels more sporty which i like.

why did you think i need to get rolex / omega before going into breguet? i already got omega and i wanna try different brand. Rolex is sweet and i wanna get submariner someday. but this breguet kind of tempted me.

Oh one thing i would like to ask, how is the accuracy on your breguet type xx? is it good? mine is very disappointing. i gain 13 seconds -15 seconds every day if i am wearing it. if i dont, this thing will lose about 10 seconds. this is .... compared to my omega which gains about 0.7 second in one day and 2 seconds if i dont wear it. is it normal? this is like bugging me a bit.


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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)




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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

the lume is pretty amazing on this watch. it beat my omega definitely. the detail is also nice. can anyone comment on accuracy? mine doesnt seem to be so accurate


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## mlcor (Oct 21, 2013)

rolexbaby said:


> hello, thanks for your reply. its very nice to see another breguet type xx owner. i finally pulled the trigger and bought this piece. the first few days after i owned it, i was simply amazed lol. i also considered it to be beautiful. The dome on the sapphire crystal on this one is pretty special.
> 
> i also agree that the servicing cost for this one is killing and it is just a dog when it comes to resell this piece one day. this is just very unpopular watch. but so far i dont regret my decision for getting this over motm even though i paid more.
> 
> ...


That watch should not gain 13-15 seconds per day--it's either slightly magnetized or needs to be regulated. My Type XXI, which does use a slightly different movement (584 instead of 582, the 584 having central chronograph seconds and minutes instead of a chronograph minutes subdial), gains maybe 2-4 seconds per day. You should expect similar performance on the wrist.


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## Spangles (May 27, 2015)

De-mag-ing a watch is free at major dealers. Start with that.

Next step: Have it regulated by a well-regarded independent watchmaker (do not go with whoever is cheapest, but do your homework).


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## fastfras (Jul 23, 2014)

Nice pics, they show the watch very well. I'm in agreement with Spangles, although I suspect it requires regulation more than a simple de mag. Having it demagnetized would definitely be the first step. The Breguet was serviced not long after the initial purchase (purchased preowned), while expensive it runs in the 3 to 4 second per day when on the wrist. The XX did receive a full service. 

My suggestion to purchase a three hander was based on my particular lifestyle and am kind of sceptical wearing a chronograph in case it get bashed about.


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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

fastfras said:


> Nice pics, they show the watch very well. I'm in agreement with Spangles, although I suspect it requires regulation more than a simple de mag. Having it demagnetized would definitely be the first step. The Breguet was serviced not long after the initial purchase (purchased preowned), while expensive it runs in the 3 to 4 second per day when on the wrist. The XX did receive a full service.
> 
> My suggestion to purchase a three hander was based on my particular lifestyle and am kind of sceptical wearing a chronograph in case it get bashed about.


hi thank you so much for your reply. I think i will just send to breguet once it needs full service. the service cost is killing and i am dead broke after getting this watch so to get this regulated, this needs to wait.


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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

Guys, i finally published my video review about this watch. if you got time, please feel free to watch. i hope you like it : )


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## GCabot (Jun 21, 2016)

Congratulations on the Type XX! And yes, definitely get it demagnetized/serviced, as there is no way it should run that fast.

Why Breguet does not get more attention is an interesting question. I think it has something to do with the fact that (1) it has a decidedly old-school aesthetic, which does not appeal to everyone; (2) it does not seem to be heavily advertised, for whatever reason; and (3) it is owned by the Swatch Group, which lessens it in the eyes of some (though no one ever seems to complain that Lange is owned by Richemont, ironically).

Regardless, the heritage and quality of Breguet is unimpeachable, in my opinion, and they certainly deserve to be ranked alongside the so-called Holy Trinity and ALS. I like to think that part of the reason Breguet is not discussed as much is because Breguet owners are self-assured enough that they do not feel the need to wax poetic about the brand to everyone they meet, but that is just me.


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## CGTHREE (Dec 28, 2016)

i have a breguet marine royale and it is one of the most beautiful pieces i own. craftsmanship is amazing with a rich tradition but due to marketing by the brand (or lack thereof) they don't get the respect the deserve.


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

A few weeks ago I saw some vintage Breguets at the British Clockmaker's Museum in London. With all due respect to the various British pieces, the Swiss ones really stole the show for me.

On a different note, I recently saw a Breguet Classique Power Reserve which was generally a beautiful watch, except for the presence of two unfilled screw holes on the exterior edges of the movement. These are normally be where the holder clips would be fastened. I can understand certain lower end brands using a standard set of plates and bridges for various movements in different watch models. However at Breguet's level, I'm a bit disappointed that they wouldn't have created custom parts to avoid this eyesore.


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## Spangles (May 27, 2015)

Good catch, at least they hand-chamfered around those spots!


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## Tonystix (Nov 9, 2017)

That is a beautiful watch. Wear it with pride.


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## Baka1969 (Dec 29, 2017)

(not my pics)

This is, in my opinion, one of the best looking watches being made today.


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## mlcor (Oct 21, 2013)

WTSP said:


> A few weeks ago I saw some vintage Breguets at the British Clockmaker's Museum in London. With all due respect to the various British pieces, the Swiss ones really stole the show for me.
> 
> On a different note, I recently saw a Breguet Classique Power Reserve which was generally a beautiful watch, except for the presence of two unfilled screw holes on the exterior edges of the movement. These are normally be where the holder clips would be fastened. I can understand certain lower end brands using a standard set of plates and bridges for various movements in different watch models. However at Breguet's level, I'm a bit disappointed that they wouldn't have created custom parts to avoid this eyesore.


It didn't leave the factory that way, those screws must have been left off/lost during servicing. Shame on the seller.


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

mlcor said:


> It didn't leave the factory that way, those screws must have been left off/lost during servicing. Shame on the seller.


That's a good theory and it certainly should be true. Unfortunately I think the evidence proves otherwise. The same issue is visible in photos from multiple unrelated sources. I'm afraid that this specific model comes off the line that way from Breguet after all.


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## mlcor (Oct 21, 2013)

WTSP said:


> That's a good theory and it certainly should be true. Unfortunately I think the evidence proves otherwise. The same issue is visible in photos from multiple unrelated sources. I'm afraid that this specific model comes off the line that way from Breguet after all.


Holy mackerel, you're right. That does seem rather tacky for a high end watch. Kind of like a row of blank buttons on a Porsche dashboard...


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## gengar (Feb 16, 2018)

GCabot said:


> Why Breguet does not get more attention is an interesting question. I think it has something to do with the fact that (1) it has a decidedly old-school aesthetic, which does not appeal to everyone; (2) it does not seem to be heavily advertised, for whatever reason; and (3) it is owned by the Swatch Group, which lessens it in the eyes of some (though no one ever seems to complain that Lange is owned by Richemont, ironically).


I agree that the "old school" appeal is a problem, but not for the same reason. IMO the problem is that "old school" people who know the history of watches and understand the importance of Abraham-Louis Breguet to watchmaking also know that the person Breguet has nothing to do with the current brand. After all, if I were asked which single person has had the most to do with the styling/aesthetic and perhaps even approach of Breguet as we know it, I'd have to say Daniel Roth. I mean, a person named Breguet hasn't even owned the company since the 19th century.

I would say the modern Breguet doesn't even start as far back as 1999 when it became part of The Swatch Group; rather, the heart of the current Breguet was established not even 17 years ago in 2001 when Lemania was brought exclusively in-house. In that sense, it is a very young company, even less so than many others that the industry refers to as "young".

Among the watch collectors I know who greatly appreciate Abraham-Louis, they are much more likely to be fans of Breguet expert and master watchmaker George Daniels' protégés, such as Roger Smith and F.P. Journe.

That said, the fact Breguet doesn't get more attention makes the brand more appealing to me - and I think the Tradition line is a nice nod to aesthetics that Breguet pursued. I'd love to pick up a 7057 at some point.


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## PJ S (Apr 29, 2013)

^
I presume English isn’t your native language, and therefore didn’t mean to pluralise protege?
Or did you, and are suggesting FP Journe has some association with George Daniels?


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## gengar (Feb 16, 2018)

PJ S said:


> ^
> I presume English isn't your native language, and therefore didn't mean to pluralise protege?
> Or did you, and are suggesting FP Journe has some association with George Daniels?


Is it not common knowledge that Journe considered Daniels his most influential mentor (and so much so that others would so obnoxiously call my English into question)? Journe may not have directly apprenticed under Daniels as Roger Smith did, but Journe has credited Daniels with the very existence of the F.P. Journe brand.


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## murokello (Aug 3, 2012)

gengar said:


> Is it not common knowledge that Journe considered Daniels his most influential mentor (and so much so that others would so obnoxiously call my English into question)? Journe may not have directly apprenticed under Daniels as Roger Smith did, but Journe has credited Daniels with the very existence of the F.P. Journe brand.


 That does not make him his protege though. More like a fanboy.


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## gengar (Feb 16, 2018)

murokello said:


> That does not make him his protege though. More like a fanboy.


Note use of the word "mentor".


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## murokello (Aug 3, 2012)

gengar said:


> Note use of the word "mentor".


 Did Daniels mentor Journe?


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## gengar (Feb 16, 2018)

murokello said:


> Did Daniels mentor Journe?


Do I really need to repeat myself again?


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## bigfatpauli (Dec 1, 2012)

Can we get back to talking about missing screws?


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## rolexbaby (Jun 26, 2017)

Guys i just put this baby on leather strap, It ROCKS!!

Please check it out: 




i also did a video review on this baby, please check it out on steel bracelet here:


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## Spangles (May 27, 2015)

gengar said:


> PJ S said:
> 
> 
> > ^
> ...


I thought people knew this. F.P.Journe was definitely hugely influenced by Daniels and fully credits Daniels for this influence. Calling FPJ a protege is really not so farfetched or incorrect. However, I imagine that the percentage of high-end watch fans on the autism spectrum is fairly high, so some level of raw, undistilled pedantry over terms is to be expected.

Meanwhile, to return to a different pedantic issue, the dreaded case of screw slots rages unabated.

In this episode, our hero points out that even purpose built in-house movements, such as one in Chopard L.U.C. Quattro have these slots, calling into question the whole nature of the critique, making night into day, and day, night.










L.U.C Calibre 98.01-L


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## PJ S (Apr 29, 2013)

Spangles said:


> I thought people knew this. F.P.Journe was definitely hugely influenced by Daniels and fully credits Daniels for this influence. Calling FPJ a protege is really not so farfetched or incorrect.


Actually, it is. The term protégé is related to being taught or advised, or seeking a consultation.
Having been influenced is akin to putting up posters on a bedroom wall of your favourite musician, etc.
There's nothing to support any supposition that F-P consulted George Daniels or was given any form of advise on how to correct a problem he was having trouble understanding.
Appreciation of someone else or their work isn't in the same realm as having one-on-one interaction with them.


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## Spangles (May 27, 2015)

Hmm...

https://www.fpjourne.com/en/evenement/events/fp-journe-homage-diner-george-daniels

You are arguing on the internet with a cat..._and losing._


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## TJMike (Jan 30, 2014)

Spangles said:


> Hmm...
> 
> https://www.fpjourne.com/en/evenement/events/fp-journe-homage-diner-george-daniels
> 
> You are arguing on the internet with a cat..._and losing._


There is no mention of protégé, just mentor


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## PJ S (Apr 29, 2013)

Spangles said:


> Hmm...
> 
> https://www.fpjourne.com/en/evenement/events/fp-journe-homage-diner-george-daniels
> 
> You are arguing on the internet with a cat..._and losing._


Meeow&#8230;hissss&#8230;woof&#8230;baaa - I think one of those is the correct response, but I'll be buggered if I can figure out which one.



TJMike said:


> There is no mention of protégé, just mentor


And given F-P's command of the English language is (presumably) non-existent, I think we can safely assume the term "mentor" is incorrectly translated or used.
It only matters insofar as ensuring the correct association and terminology is attributed to his 'relationship' with George.


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## Spangles (May 27, 2015)

PJ S said:


> Meeow&#8230;hissss&#8230;woof&#8230;baaa - I think one of those is the correct response, but _I'll be buggered_ if I can figure out which one.


Ah, now I see why using the correct word is sometimes so important to you and sometimes not. Well, to each their own, it takes different strokes to row the world, yes it does.



> And given F-P's command of the English language is (presumably) non-existent, I think we can safely assume the term "mentor" is incorrectly translated or used.
> It only matters insofar as ensuring the correct association and terminology is attributed to his 'relationship' with George.


You're assuming he meant "lover"? And no, we can't assume that.

Pretty weird. I think the basic point that there was a strong positive, personal influence on FPJ by GD is now clear. Anyone interested in further pedantry won't mind, I'm sure, if I say they can "bugger off"!


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## murokello (Aug 3, 2012)

Spangles said:


> Hmm... https://www.fpjourne.com/en/evenement/events/fp-journe-homage-diner-george-daniels You are arguing on the internet with a cat..._and losing._


 I think you are seeing things that are not there. The link clearly states that the only thing Journe got from Daniels was inspiration, just like some musician with a Michael Jackson poster on his bedroom wall.


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

Spangles said:


> I thought people knew this. F.P.Journe was definitely hugely influenced by Daniels and fully credits Daniels for this influence. Calling FPJ a protege is really not so farfetched or incorrect. However, I imagine that the percentage of high-end watch fans on the autism spectrum is fairly high, so some level of raw, undistilled pedantry over terms is to be expected.
> 
> Meanwhile, to return to a different pedantic issue, the dreaded case of screw slots rages unabated.
> 
> ...


The issue that I've raised isn't that these slots exist. Most movements need them to accommodate the screws and and clips that anchor them to the case. My issue is that when they are not in use they should not exist.

Chopard actually does it right and uses the spaces, as can be seen in photos that are not at an angle. Breguet just leaves them as empty holes when not in use. My OCD demands that they not be present if not in use!










And so darkness falls again despite the efforts of our protagonist.










(Pic from the internet. Not my cat)


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## Spangles (May 27, 2015)

murokello said:


> Spangles said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm... https://www.fpjourne.com/en/evenement/events/fp-journe-homage-diner-george-daniels You are arguing on the internet with a cat..._and losing._
> ...


If the musician was a personal friend of Michael Jackson, so the inspiration was more personal than that of a total stranger, then we would be getting closer to it.

"F.P.Journe declared: "Without George Daniels, I would most certainly never have stared to make my first watch: George is definitely the foremost watchmakers of this 20th Century. It was in 1969, when the mechanical watch industry was dethroned by the arrival of quartz, that you started making your first watch. You were the pioneer; the first watchmaker who showed us the path to horology of Art, a non-utilitarian horology. The rest proved you were right, Swiss horology was back from the ashes in constructing watches of Art and ceremonial timepieces; the landscape repopulated in two decades.

You have opened the main door of contemporary horology and showed us the path back to authentic watchmaking with innovation sense, in the respect of the grand horological tradition of our great watch masters. He opened the main door; I could only follow in opening others. But the most difficult to open was definitely the first one. George I am proud to be your friend and I wish to thank you immensely for all the incentive and inspiration you brought me, and I could only hope there would be more watchmakers like us making real horology."

François-Paul Journe then presented a thoughtful homage timekeeper to George Daniels, a Chronomètre Souverain of his collection, especially made for him and dedicated on the bridge of the movement: FP to George Daniels my Mentor 2010."

From Hodinkee:

"With Daniels gone, it would be fair to say that François-Paul Journe is the heir apparent, and the two shared a close personal relationship."

Game, set, match.


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## Spangles (May 27, 2015)

WTSP said:


> And so darkness falls again despite the efforts of our protagonist.


Off to hide under the bed! (Ominous music plays)


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## Perazzi-man (Oct 14, 2014)

when I met FP J he was not speaking English. But he could be a clever faker.

HAHAHAHA


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## GCabot (Jun 21, 2016)

gengar said:


> I agree that the "old school" appeal is a problem, but not for the same reason. IMO the problem is that "old school" people who know the history of watches and understand the importance of Abraham-Louis Breguet to watchmaking also know that the person Breguet has nothing to do with the current brand. After all, if I were asked which single person has had the most to do with the styling/aesthetic and perhaps even approach of Breguet as we know it, I'd have to say Daniel Roth. I mean, a person named Breguet hasn't even owned the company since the 19th century.
> 
> I would say the modern Breguet doesn't even start as far back as 1999 when it became part of The Swatch Group; rather, the heart of the current Breguet was established not even 17 years ago in 2001 when Lemania was brought exclusively in-house. In that sense, it is a very young company, even less so than many others that the industry refers to as "young".
> 
> Among the watch collectors I know who greatly appreciate Abraham-Louis, they are much more likely to be fans of Breguet expert and master watchmaker George Daniels' protégés, such as Roger Smith and F.P. Journe.


I can't say I understand this sentiment. Should F.P. Journe close down once Mr. Journe dies? When was the last time Patek Philippe or Vacheron Constantin were owned by a member of any of their eponymous families? Audemars Piguet can claim otherwise, but then, even more so than with Daniel Roth, the modern Audemars Piguet is the child of Gerald Genta. Breguet may have suffered from lackluster ownership for much of the twentieth century, but it wasn't an essentially defunct brand like Blancpain, or simply invoking the name of a long-dead watchmaker like Ferdinand Berthoud or Czapek, and Emmanuel Breguet, a direct descendant, is still involved with the company. And again, no one seems to complain that Lange is essentially a new brand which, as far as I'm aware, never even built a wristwatch until 1994.

The modern Breguet clearly captures the spirit and aesthetic of Abraham-Louis Breguet in my opinion, just as Lange captures the spirit of the old Lange pocket watches. I can certainly understand why those who appreciate Abraham-Louis Breguet's work would also be a fan of George Daniels or Roger Smith, though their extremely low production makes owning one of their timepieces a negligible proposition, even if one could afford it. F.P. Journe certainly invokes the inventive spirit of Abraham-Louis Breguet, but his aesthetic has little in common, so I don't see how his work would be a substitute.


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## Spangles (May 27, 2015)

That's all well said.


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## gengar (Feb 16, 2018)

GCabot said:


> I can't say I understand this sentiment. Should F.P. Journe close down once Mr. Journe dies? When was the last time Patek Philippe or Vacheron Constantin were owned by a member of any of their eponymous families? Audemars Piguet can claim otherwise, but then, even more so than with Daniel Roth, the modern Audemars Piguet is the child of Gerald Genta.


The "sentiment" you are addressing is the totality of the statements in my post, so it serves no purpose to attempt to rebut the statements individually - and especially not by applying hypotheticals to observed consumer behavior, as there is no "should" particularly in the context of extravagant and totally unnecessary luxuries like mechanical watches. To re-emphasize, the issue that I've seen others have with Breguet is the huge dichotomy between the person (esp. with respect to his contribution to watchmaking) and the current brand. That's what makes Breguet so different from, say, PP/VC that you brought up, where the four people whose names make up those brands don't compare at all to Abraham-Louis Breguet (off the top of my head, only one of the four has contributed even any meaningful innovation to horology). Any significant contributions to watchmaking are not why any of their fans would buy their watches nor what anyone associates those names with.


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