# Sinn 104 as my first swiss watch.



## G-Miike (Aug 16, 2017)

I'm considering this as my first and probably only real watch. One thing is that I've always been under the impression a "proper" watch would be a mechanical with "Swiss Made" somewhere on the watch face. The Sinn obviously isn't despite using a SW200 movement. There's nothing wrong at all with the fact that it's made in Germany and I don't feel they are inferior to the Swiss made watches but it's hard to shake that old idea of getting a Swiss made watch, which I have had since I was younger. 

I also see that most posters here are collectors and have many other watches. Would you consider a Sinn (any Model) as your one and only "proper" watch? 

It will factor in a bit in my decision making but I won't leave it down to that one point. I've already narrowed down my choices to either the 104, a Speedmaster triple date (used) or an Oris 65 (42mm). There are other factors too like product and brand support in my area. Oris and Omega are well represented in my City but I have to order the Sinn watches I want specifically. I don't know about parts support. 



Getting to the actual watch. I like the 104, very professional and utilitarian looking. I did not expect it to feel so dressy once I tried it, especially with the leather strap. I'm wondering if this was also your impression of it as I was really expecting it to be more casual. It must be the high polish finish that gives it that impression.
The H link strap was also heavier and thicker than I expected, I would like some feedback from those who use this strap on how comfortable it is. There are many pictures of the strap but none from the side. I really like the look of it but seeing how thick it is in person caused me to hesitate a bit on the strap option. 

One final thing, how is the bezel with the numbers going backwards? I know it has it's uses as a timer but I'm someone who is frequently confused by numbers and I am used to relying on the ones that are visible on the bezel for telling time. Is it something you get used to right away, or does it become annoying and bothersome over time?


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## blue max (Jul 25, 2017)

I haven't had a watch of any sort for decades and didn't really want one. However, I'm now seeing they are more like jewellery and have warmed to the idea of one, so I took the plunge! I'm no collector, so it had to be my one and only. I was mightily tempted by the 104, but ended up with an 857. 

My 'problem' with the 104 is that is it a bit 'dressy' to my mind. With its polished metal and exhibition back. I find it the mainstream Sinn model to appeal to the masses, especially with the aggressive pricing. Changing the bands always seems to scratch the lugs, which would bug me.

My second-hand 857 (just so happened to find one that was a good price in perfect condition), has many of Sinn's technologies on board. Frankly, most are of no value to me, but I do love the tegimented finish. That dark eggshell sheen is so gorgeous - and should last too.

I thought about a metal bracelet, but feel that would make it more dressy again. My special edition watch came with a leather band, but I've swopped it out for a rubber one, which I love on it. It strikes the right balance between casual and smart for me. It isn't even the official one, which is crazy priced.

I am so happy to have a Sinn though. Not a brand I had ever heard of a few months ago, but I had a mac when everyone else had a pc. Yes, there was a time! I also know they will hold their value well, so it's a great choice!


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## Camguy (Nov 23, 2012)

Congrats. The 104 is a fantastic piece, always on my Watchbuys Roadshows shortlist. It does have a dressier vibe, but it's all business, and would make an excellent "one watch." I have the H-link bracelet on my EZM 13 and it's one of the most comfortable bracelets I've ever worn.

Parts support shouldn't be an issue 'cause it'll never break, and any competent watchmaker can service the SW200. In which city/country do you live?

Don't get _too_ hung up on "Swiss Made." It's a pretty loose definition at best (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_made). They make some very fine watches, but so do Germany and Japan, and the all make some so-so watches. I don't think you can go wrong with a Sinn.


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## Kurt Koerfgen (Feb 10, 2006)

I require a watch with chronometer function and hence the 103 series is closer to my requirements, but both 103 and 104 are quite similar in style.
I can attest that the 103 - and thus by inference the 104 - are very dependable tool watches that stand on their own without any ostentatious, flashy gimmicks, and that I am highly satified with mine.

As far as your "Swiss watch" idea is concerned, I am a bit puzzled as to why you brought this up, as the Sinn obviously isn't, and to my ear it sounds like a guy who wants to date an Irish girl, but announces he is willing to settle for an American girl with Irish parentage on one side.
In a nutshell: for me it's not the heritage, it's the individual qualities that matter. 


But if your mind is set on a 100% Swiss mechanical watch, there might be a 100% Swiss Oris or a more expensive Omega watch to consider - as you already mentioned.
From experience, I found Oris watches however to lack the refinement and attention to detail that Sinn offers.

On my part, I'm therefore fine with German Sinns with Swiss (or other dependable) movements.


K.


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## SnakeMan (Jul 24, 2017)

I like Sinn watches because they _ARE _ German, rather than yet another Swiss brand ......


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## dhtjr (Feb 7, 2013)

I have had my 104 for several years and have not tired of it. If I ever grow bored with it, it will likely be because I have grown bored with watches in general. Yes, it's polished, but the bezel tones it down, and strap choice can tone it down further. I use all kinds and colors of straps on it, and they all look good, from yellow toad, grey stingray, various leathers, rubber, perlon, and of course a variety of natos. The 104 is very versatile that way. Sure, many strap changes have scratched the underside of the lugs a bit, but those scratches cannot be seen on the wrist. Pretty easy to avoid scratching the outside of the lugs with just basic springbar tool skills. 

I do understand your wanting a Swiss-made watch, nothing wrong with that. I too sometimes want a Swiss brand to add to my two Germans. But I wouldn't get too obsessed about it. I think German watchmaking is just as impressive, from Lange to Nomos to Sinn, and many more.


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## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

Sinn is very cool, very good. German made is a plus in my book as well.
Another somewhat similar yet more toolish alternative would be the Damasko DA44 and DA46. These offer even deeper engineering but look a bit less dressed than the Sinn.


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## zetaplus93 (Jul 22, 2013)

If it were possible for me, I could definitely see the 104 to be the one and only watch. As others have mentioned, build quality is quite high and I wager it to be better than Oris, though I'm not sure how it compares with Omega.

I have found the H-link bracelet on the 104 to be quite comfortable for every day wear. The fact that the 104 is quite thin (compare with the speedmaster for example) also helps the comfort.

I was also originally used to diver bezels, but I got familiar with the pilots bezel on the 104 after a few days. YMMV. 

Overall I think it's solid watch and worthy of your consideration, especially given its price point.


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## G-Miike (Aug 16, 2017)

Thanks all. 

I've grown to like the 104 even more in the past few days since posting. The syringe style hands especially have started to look better and better the more I look at the watch. I do also find it to be more interesting than the Oris 65 that I considered as well as the Pro Pilot which I was not really into. I thought about the Swiss thing, and while it matters a bit, I would not just go for a watch based on that if I didn't really like it as I am starting to with the 104 over the 65. 

The Omega is still a slight frontrunner. I have always loved their bracelets, I love the domed cyrstal on the 3220.50 and I've really come to appreciate the 7750/7751 movements after having read several articles on them. However, my lack of experience makes it risky to go with a used watch, for now...

I will have another look and compare the black 104 with the white face and the version with the numerals to see if either one feels more casual or less dressy. I actually feel the leather straps make the black dressier compared to the H link bracelet, so I will probably go for that. The bracelet looks nice despite being a bit chunky. I'm not crazy about the clasp, I really would have liked a push button type release instead of the friction type they use. 

Btw, is there something about their designs that make it difficult to change straps? I think I've read two or three other users report the same thing while changing straps on their 104.


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## Camguy (Nov 23, 2012)

Getting the bracelet off my EZM 13 was most definitely a challenge, but only because they used "double-shoulder" springbars, which are very difficult to get a grip on. Once I replaced them with "double flange" bars strap/bracelet changes are a breeze.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

Go on GM get a 104 (push push)


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## bzbuzz (Nov 4, 2009)

Just received my 104

Worried about size since ive been wearing 42 44 sized watches. But i like the size and like dressy design oh and love the leather strap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## redhed18 (Mar 23, 2013)

Oooh those hands...


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## G-Miike (Aug 16, 2017)

sticky said:


> Go on GM get a 104 (push push)


GM?

I've just about decided I want a 104 over the 65... well, almost...



bzbuzz said:


> Just received my 104
> 
> Worried about size since ive been wearing 42 44 sized watches. But i like the size and like dressy design oh and love the leather strap.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Congrats. Looks great!



redhed18 said:


> Oooh those hands...


Exactly.

I thought about the white face as a more casual version but the contrast with the black dial and the hands is just too nice...


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## G-Miike (Aug 16, 2017)

Thanks again guys. I'm pretty much decided on this. Just a couple more questions. 

From what I have learned, this watch was first introduced around 2013, the A version and the white dial are the newer models. Is there any way of knowing the production date on a specific unit? There seem to be unverified theories that newer or later releases might be free of the date being angled or misaligned issue. It doesn't bother me but if there is a chance to avoid it, that would be nice. 

I heard from one review online that the AR coating on the crystal wears out rather quickly giving the impression that it's scratched. I don't know if there is any truth to this as it's only been one reviewer that's mentioned it. 

I know there are lots of factors involved but compared to other similarly priced watches (Oris, Hamilton, Tissot etc), how does Sinn generally hold it's value. I know these brands don't do too well maintaining value in the used market but I'd like to get an idea in case I decide to sell it later.


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## zetaplus93 (Jul 22, 2013)

It seems to me that Sinn watches hold its value about the same as Oris and Hamiltons. If you sell one down the line, you can expect to get approx 60-70% of the value of a new watch at the time of sale, of course depending on the condition of the watch. 

Do keep in mind that USA prices are higher than that of German prices, so I'd compare it to German new watch prices to be conservative. 

You can do a search on WatchRecon to get a sense of current used prices vs new prices. 

If you're open to it, buying a gently used watch is typically the way to avoid the initial 30-40% depreciation of a new watch. 

Good luck!


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## ndrew3 (May 1, 2017)

Just got mine in on Friday and it's a hell of a watch. Wears super comfortable and the size is perfect even though my wrist is smaller.

This was a step up for me in my infant collection and it feels worth it for sure. Though it's a somewhat simple watch compared to their other offerings there's a lot of love in the details. The crown action for example is so different than my affordables, there's a bit of haptic feedback (just tiny different feeling pops and stuff) that make each action feel unique.

I really wanted a well made watch that still flew under the radar a bit, so if that's what you're after it's a great option.


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## The_Datta (May 5, 2017)

First German watch! FTFY 
It definitely is my first German watch ahah. The white dial 104.


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## BMWE46 (Dec 15, 2014)

zetaplus93 said:


> It seems to me that Sinn watches hold its value about the same as Oris and Hamiltons. If you sell one down the line, you can expect to get approx 60-70% of the value of a new watch at the time of sale, of course depending on the condition of the watch.
> 
> Do keep in mind that USA prices are higher than that of German prices, so I'd compare it to German new watch prices to be conservative.
> 
> ...


I have yet to see a used 104 in good condition sell for 40% of its new price. I've looked extensively and I've found that the prices seem to hang right around the $900-1000 range for good condition "leather strap" models and can go as high as $1100-$1200 for like new, depending on new stock availability at any given time. This is on the model that retails for $1290 so I'm not talking about the bracelet models which sell for more. One of the many reasons I'm getting ready to just go ahead and buy the 104 before the price increase sept 1 is because they do hole their value so well. Hamilton and Oris take an absolute beating on the second hand market. Especially Hamilton. You really can't even begin to put Sinn values in the same league as Hammy and Oris. It seems like when a watch brand is offered on the gray market new for big discounts it definitely kills the second hand values and even tarnishes the brand a little. I'm all for paying less and I've done my fair share of buying watches like Hamiltons, Tissot, Fortis, Tag, and others on the gray market. But that really tears up the second hand market when a new watch can be had for half off retail thru gray market. Sinn doesn't do this and already is punching above its price point with the 104 so that helps keep second hand values up and demand high.


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## cbrzrule (Dec 3, 2010)

+1 on the double flange! We have all done a ton of digging with the double flanges.


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## G-Miike (Aug 16, 2017)

It's good to know at least it holds it's value well compared to options in the price range.

It's not getting easier for me to choose. I initially was set on the 104 I, but having seen the white in person it was also quite desirable and less formal which was a plus. I never even considered the 104 A, not as clean looking a dial as the I but when I saw it in person it was just as striking as the I version.

As far as straps, I sweat a lot so it will have to be the H Link for me.



ndrew3 said:


> Just got mine in on Friday and it's a hell of a watch. Wears super comfortable and the size is perfect even though my wrist is smaller.
> 
> This was a step up for me in my infant collection and it feels worth it for sure. Though it's a somewhat simple watch compared to their other offerings there's a lot of love in the details. The crown action for example is so different than my affordables, there's a bit of haptic feedback (just tiny different feeling pops and stuff) that make each action feel unique.
> 
> I really wanted a well made watch that still flew under the radar a bit, so if that's what you're after it's a great option.


 Nice! The white looks really good, better each time I look at it. I'm also looking for an under the radar type of watch, don't you feel this is a bit dressy (sorry for asking everyone after ever other post about this) or maybe that has something to do with the reason you chose the white dial?

That's really the only thing which is causing me to hesitate a bit. This will be my main watch which means it will pretty much be a beater/all rounder I will be using at work and for casual use. Even with the nato straps it looks dressy to me...

Is the price increase definite for Sept1? I was hoping for a little more time. Also, is there any info on how much it will increase? 50-100usd might be doable if it means I don't have to rush in deciding.


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## bzbuzz (Nov 4, 2009)

While i really like my 104 this leather band seems some quality issue. Look at the lug hole on the band. Watchbuys sent me a replacement but sane issue.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## bzbuzz (Nov 4, 2009)

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## bzbuzz (Nov 4, 2009)

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## G-Miike (Aug 16, 2017)

And I'm back to liking the I over the A...


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

G-Miike said:


> And I'm back to liking the I over the A...


I assume you are in the US and will be buying from Watchbuys? Why not drop them a line and ask about the size of the potential price increase. I'm totally unbiased as to which 104 you get so long as it's the white one. :-d


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## G-Miike (Aug 16, 2017)

sticky said:


> I assume you are in the US and will be buying from Watchbuys? Why not drop them a line and ask about the size of the potential price increase. I'm totally unbiased as to which 104 you get so long as it's the white one. :-d


I was just on watchbuys, my eyes just about popped out of their sockets when I saw the EZM 1.1 and the 1200USD price on the page. It took me a while to realize it was just for deposit and even longer to regain my composure.

I'm in no rush, I went back to see the Oris 65 and had a second look at the Pro Pilot. The Oris watches in my price range (BC3, 65 and Pro Pilot), which I was really into just a few months ago all seem so plain and boring now. It's funny because I thought I would grow tired of the Sinn styling first but I've only grown fonder of the 104I.


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## john_s (Mar 18, 2017)

I'm in the same boat debating between a Sinn 104 and an Oris 65. IMO the Sinn is a better buy. You get a much better depth rating, a day and date complication plus the sapphire case back and a screw down bezel. 

All this combined should make for a much more durable watch. Now if you're going to debate the dial then that is totally subjective and you can only go with your own opinion but I personally believe that both dials are great so I mark that one a draw... guess I'm buying a Sinn.


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## dhtjr (Feb 7, 2013)

john_s said:


> I'm in the same boat debating between a Sinn 104 and an Oris 65. IMO the Sinn is a better buy. You get a much better depth rating, a day and date complication plus the sapphire case back and a screw down bezel.
> 
> All this combined should make for a much more durable watch. Now if you're going to debate the dial then that is totally subjective and you can only go with your own opinion but I personally believe that both dials are great so I mark that one a draw... guess I'm buying a Sinn.


Good points. I'm a 104 owner for four years now and still love the watch. But I've been smitten lately by the Oris 40mm Divers 65 with that newer dial with black interior and deep blue outer ring. I'm hoping to see it in person tomorrow, but I love it in pictures, and there's a good recent video review too. Will be interesting to see how it compares to the Sinn.


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## zero_cool (Jan 4, 2017)

I just visited my local sinn dealer and they had a 104 Arabic on a beautiful tobacco leather strap. It was 1090 euro (50 euro price increas from 1 Sep). His English wasn't so good but he said the strap couldn't be changed. I have seen the 104s on all types of NATOs. Just double checking it can be changed? Thanks


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## blue max (Jul 25, 2017)

zero_cool said:


> I just visited my local sinn dealer and they had a 104 Arabic on a beautiful tobacco leather strap. It was 1090 euro (50 euro price increas from 1 Sep). His English wasn't so good but he said the strap couldn't be changed. I have seen the 104s on all types of NATOs. Just double checking it can be changed? Thanks


Maybe he meant before purchase ie he won't substitute for another. But they clearly can be changed afterwards.


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## meson1 (Jul 11, 2017)

And as if proof were needed, here is my new _Sinn 104 St Sa I W_. I've swapped out the vintage brown leather strap it came with and put it on a _Di Modell Carbonio Sport_.









Apologies for the mediocre picture quality. My phone camera isn't exactly the best.


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## CGSshorty (Aug 16, 2009)

sticky said:


> I assume you are in the US and will be buying from Watchbuys? Why not drop them a line and ask about the size of the potential price increase.


WatchBuys will not be implementing any price increases for the time being.


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## G-Miike (Aug 16, 2017)

meson1 said:


> And as if proof were needed, here is my new _Sinn 104 St Sa I W_. I've swapped out the vintage brown leather strap it came with and put it on a _Di Modell Carbonio Sport_.
> 
> View attachment 12481271
> 
> ...


Just what I was looking for. I'm not too fond of the stainless bracelet options and leather isn't good since I sweat a lot. I wasn't sure how the shiny surfaces on this watch would contrast against nato's in real life despite having browsed many images online, but the tropic looks real good.


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## Vlance (Apr 12, 2014)

bzbuzz said:


> While i really like my 104 this leather band seems some quality issue. Look at the lug hole on the band. Watchbuys sent me a replacement but sane issue.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I havnt worn the stock strap for more than a day after getting mine. There are a ton of straps out there and if you're not happy with the Sinn one, replace it! I love these quick release ones from clockwork.


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## meson1 (Jul 11, 2017)

I thought the stock strap was great. But I thought the piece would look better with the _Di Modell Carbonio_ and as a bonus it's waterproof (apparently rated to 100m, whatever that means for a leather strap).

A further, but very secondary consideration was that if (big if) at some time in the future I decided to flip my 104, I could put it back on the original strap, which would still be like new.


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## G-Miike (Aug 16, 2017)

Preserving the original straps is also a consideration. I'm not buying it with that in mind but I'll probably put aside the original straps as well. 

Since we are on the subject of straps, could I ask how the aftermarket leather and Nato straps affect the overall look and feel of this particular watch. I've decided on the 104 I, I'm hoping to dress it down a bit with a nato from what I've seen online, it still looks dressy to me.


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## Vlance (Apr 12, 2014)

G-Miike said:


> Preserving the original straps is also a consideration. I'm not buying it with that in mind but I'll probably put aside the original straps as well.
> 
> Since we are on the subject of straps, could I ask how the aftermarket leather and Nato straps affect the overall look and feel of this particular watch. I've decided on the 104 I, I'm hoping to dress it down a bit with a nato from what I've seen online, it still looks dressy to me.


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## ortx (Aug 8, 2016)

Vlance said:


>


What a beautiful watch, not bad.

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## zero_cool (Jan 4, 2017)

Just bought my 104 St Sa I with fine link bracelet. Awesome deal after not paying 19% VAT. I'm thinking about the rubber NATO strap from that Italian company. I had a daluca on my Garmin and it was "ok". Any nice NATO brands? Thanks


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## Vlance (Apr 12, 2014)

zero_cool said:


> Just bought my 104 St Sa I with fine link bracelet. Awesome deal after not paying 19% VAT. I'm thinking about the rubber NATO strap from that Italian company. I had a daluca on my Garmin and it was "ok". Any nice NATO brands? Thanks


Dude, you'll have a blast with straps. Just buy some different ones every other week or so.


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## dhtjr (Feb 7, 2013)

zero_cool said:


> Just bought my 104 St Sa I with fine link bracelet. Awesome deal after not paying 19% VAT. I'm thinking about the rubber NATO strap from that Italian company. I had a daluca on my Garmin and it was "ok". Any nice NATO brands? Thanks


Some good nato brands: Toxic, BluShark, Cincy Strap Works, Phenome, Haveston.


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## The_Datta (May 5, 2017)

First GERMAN watch. FTFY haha


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