# Differences Between Seiko Turtle Reissue K and J models



## cogman (Sep 5, 2012)

Fellow WISes,

I have googled this concern of mine but unfortunately, there has been no definitive answer. 

I figured that since the announcement of the Seiko Reissue of the Turtle has been but a couple of months ago and they've been on the market for not more than a month, perhaps it's best we get this out in the open. 

The Seiko Turtle Reissue i.e. SRP773, 775, 777 and 779 are all said to be Prospex watches of Seiko. However, A quick googling would reveal that there are K and J variants of this reissue similar to the SKX series. 

The question is, are there really K and J models of this modern turtle reissue and if yes, what are the differences? Would there be any like the SKX J models bearing the "21 Jewels" and "Made in Japan" auxiliary prints on the dial?

Please take note that the Seiko Turtle Reissue are all Prospex brands and if it is true that all Prospex brands are Japan manufactures, then I rest my case. 

Feel free to chime in. 

Thanks!


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## 74notserpp (Oct 12, 2014)

I would also like to know if the J models exist? I have seen posted catalogue pics, but does anyone have one?
In Australia, there are K models of prospex watches which aren't made in Japan.


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## thorien (Jan 24, 2013)

This image was posted a while ago, which does suggest a J version, though it looks exactly the same so who knows......


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## berserkkw (Jan 29, 2013)

so far, to my ocd eyes, this is all i can find from pics..

assuming the one mentioning Japan is from Japan, while the other is manufactured elsewhere...


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## thorien (Jan 24, 2013)

^ Good spot! That is interesting. I wonder if they have different casebacks also, one saying made in Japan?


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

thorien said:


> ^ Good spot! That is interesting. I wonder if they have different casebacks also, one saying made in Japan?


The dial doesn't say "made in Japan", it says "movement Japan". Which means all the rest including assembly can be made in another country.


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## thorien (Jan 24, 2013)

Which is why I said 'one of them' may have.


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## charjanto (May 21, 2013)

thorien said:


> This image was posted a while ago, which does suggest a J version, though it looks exactly the same so who knows......


I am saving up for srp775


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## matthew P (Aug 1, 2013)

also interesting that the "J" model seems to be mis aligned at 6.


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## mcnabbanov (Feb 21, 2014)

come on guys, the J doesn't mean it's made in Japan. None of these turtles are assembled in Japan. 

What I did not know is there was a J model for the Japanese market. The J and K represent the market it is intended for, so different day wheels mostly


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## pw01 (Jun 12, 2014)

mcnabbanov said:


> come on guys, the J doesn't mean it's made in Japan. None of these turtles are assembled in Japan.
> 
> What I did not know is there was a J model for the Japanese market. The J and K represent the market it is intended for, so different day wheels mostly


I want to know which on have the Roman numeral day indicator!


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## VictorAlpha (Oct 25, 2015)

There is a video on Youtube posted by TGV (The Urban Gentry Channel) that compares a SKX009K with a SKX009J and one thing that clearly stands out for me is the difference in case finishing. The J model had a markedly superior level of crispness to it with much sharper lines particularly between the polished and brushed sections as well as the beveled sections of the case. There seem to be other differences too that are probably just variations in manufacturing. I can't post a link to the video because of my post count but it would be worth looking it up using the details above.

This was a surprise to me being a current owner of a 009J and having always read that the only difference was the market for the J was domestic Japan and that of the K was the rest of the world.


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## thorien (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I read previously that the J and K models vary in the way they are made (whilst both being produced in the same factory) in that the J models have to have Japanese workers overlooking the manufacturing process and QC procedures on that production line whilst the K models have Korean/Chinese/Malaysian etc.

This could all be baloney though?!


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## Dave W (Feb 13, 2006)

The Turtle I have is simply a SRP777 with no suffix at all. It was shipped to me directly from Seiko USA HQ in NJ.

So maybe there are THREE versions out there.










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## arlee (May 9, 2009)

thorien said:


> ^ Good spot! That is interesting. I wonder if they have different casebacks also, one saying made in Japan?


caseback says the same thing the dial says "movement Japan"


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## tothelandofnod (Aug 19, 2013)

thorien said:


> ^ Good spot! That is interesting. I wonder if they have different casebacks also, one saying made in Japan?


Haven't bought nor looked at Seiko since the Chinese made bracelet on my SMA003 Kinetic Auto Relay failed and dropped three years ago, causing the crystal to crack. Because of the new technology in the 90's, when the Auto Relay Movement came out, the case back had "MADE IN JAPAN" stamped on it.

It is my sentiment virtually all divers sold outside of Japan are made in China, Malaysia, and or Thailand aside from Grand Seiko, and the price reflects it. Please see this Japanese AD website ... SEIKO Marine Master Professional 300M Diver Automatic SBDX017 - seiyajapan.com ... the photos of the case back or dial, it says "MADE IN JAPAN," and the price reflects it.

Thanks


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## teatimecrumpet (Mar 14, 2013)

thorien said:


> I'm pretty sure I read previously that the J and K models vary in the way they are made (whilst both being produced in the same factory) in that the J models have to have Japanese workers overlooking the manufacturing process and QC procedures on that production line whilst the K models have Korean/Chinese/Malaysian etc.
> 
> This could all be baloney though?!


I'm gonna go with baloney on this.


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## khj94704 (Mar 31, 2010)

thorien said:


> I'm pretty sure I read previously that the J and K models vary in the way they are made (whilst both being produced in the same factory) in that the J models have to have Japanese workers overlooking the manufacturing process and QC procedures on that production line whilst the K models have Korean/Chinese/Malaysian etc.
> 
> This could all be baloney though?!


I have a few skx and srp divers and the only one I got that's a "J" model also happens to be the one with the worst QC, an srp307J where the minute hand was about 5 to 6 minutes off, so bad that I paid to have the hands realigned. I realize this is a tiny sample size I'm presenting, but I've definitely stopped thinking of the "J" models to be superior to the "K" versions.


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## Dave W (Feb 13, 2006)

khj94704 said:


> I have a few skx and srp divers and the only one I got that's a "J" model also happens to be the one with the worst QC, an srp307J where the minute hand was about 5 to 6 minutes off, so bad that I paid to have the hands realigned. I realize this is a tiny sample size I'm presenting, but I've definitely stopped thinking of the "J" models to be superior to the "K" versions.


I would agree. I have several SKXs, but only one SKX J model. The J is fine physically, but it is by far the most inaccurate of all my SKXs.

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## AleSKX (Mar 23, 2011)

El @ said:


> The dial doesn't say "made in Japan", it says "movement Japan". Which means all the rest including assembly can be made in another country.


Mine has a movement Japan label on the dial and the case is stamped China.

- AleSKX


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

There are currently 3 variations of the dial.

1. Movement Japan- US Market version 

2. Made In Japan- Middle East version 

3. 4R36- Version marketed to many parts of the world

There are also 3 different model numbers for the SRP777 and SRP775. They are

SRP775K- Marketed to many parts of the world

SRP775J- Middle East market (should also have Arabic/English day wheel)

SRP775- US Market

SRP777K- Marketed to many parts of the world

SRP777J- Middle East market (should also have Arabic/English day wheel)

SRP777- US Market

All are made in the same factory/factories. There is no secret factory in Japan that is producing just J models. In some countries in the Middle East, items sold are required to have the company's country of origin. Hence the made in Japan models, most of them have Arabic/English day wheels(though some do have Roman Numerals)

In the USA items are required to have the item's country of origin and not the company's country of origin.


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

thorien said:


> I'm pretty sure I read previously that the J and K models vary in the way they are made (whilst both being produced in the same factory) in that the J models have to have Japanese workers overlooking the manufacturing process and QC procedures on that production line whilst the K models have Korean/Chinese/Malaysian etc.
> 
> This could all be baloney though?!





teatimecrumpet said:


> I'm gonna go with baloney on this.


I go with baloney in that i don't think even if one_ is_ 'overseen by japanese workers' it becomes somehow better than another one that wasn't. I still believe it's just how everything is marked (on rotors, dials, casebacks, & how it's worded, MADE IN, or MOV'T) and there's no actual better mfg. methods employed for the J's.


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## atarione (Aug 10, 2015)

math... there is no way to profitably produce watches at this price point in Japan... the J models aren't made in Japan it is because of "made in" labeling laws in the middle east...

I wish it was different but it isn't ...globalization being the way it is ... pretty much all of these are not made in Japan...

I feel like what I have read suggest a watch needs to retail north of $1,500 before it could be profitably produced in Japan at this point.


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## SiDave (May 6, 2013)

This is interesting and I would like to pick up a J model while in Japan next momth


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## Lanceteer (Dec 16, 2014)

Some people appear to be misinformed about what "J" means. They believe it means the model is intended for the Japanese domestic market. This is not true, and it has never been true. Neither for the SKX007/009 nor the SRP77x Turtles. A quick look at the languages on the day-wheel will tell you that it is meant for a market with consumers who typically would use English or Arabic as a written language, because the day-wheels will have the days of the week printed in English and Arabic. No Kanji, which is what Japanese people use to represent days of the week. "J" does *NOT *mean that the watch is targeted at the Japanese people in Japan.

In fact, watch models that have the "J" designation (and hence also the "K" designation), are not available in the Japanese domestic market through official routes. That's right, the SKX007/009 and the SRP77x Turtles are _not_ available in Japan officially. The ones that you find in Japan are reimported models by grey market sellers. Sellers on Rakuten in Japan have made it clear in many of their ads that SKX007J watches that they have sold are reimports. Those watches have left Japan, officially meant for somewhere else, and then are reimported. So going to Japan is not going to help you get a "J" version any easier than being in the rest of the world. Your best bet is to look for a seller (wherever in the world, I recommend Singapore) that specifically has the version with "Made in Japan" on the dial.


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

^^

This is partly why it's so confusing, and partly why people start new threads every week asking if J's are better because they are more expensive. it all contributes to the unfortunate J myth.


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## mario24601 (Jun 17, 2009)

Does it all really matter? Every model is Seiko, to me that's all that's important. But what do I know.  

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## in.Time (Sep 23, 2015)

AleSKX said:


> Mine has a movement Japan label on the dial and the case is stamped China.
> 
> - AleSKX


Mine is the SRP775J1 which has "Made in Japan" on the dial and "Made in Japan" on the back.

I really want to believe all Seiko watches are assembled in the same factories. It's very hard to believe the proud Japanese people would mark a product "Made in Japan" which isn't actually made in Japan.


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## 1130UTC (May 18, 2013)

pw01 said:


> I want to know which on have the Roman numeral day indicator!


This. I have a 775 in the mail, but I think I'm going to have to add a roman numeral 777 to my collection at some point.

Perhaps someone whos got a roman numeral 777 could let us know if its a J or a K or if its just 777 without the suffix. And where did they purchase it from?


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

for me it'd be cool to add a roman numeral (or chinese) Pepsi in the future =)


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## in.Time (Sep 23, 2015)

A Kanji day wheel would be an interesting mod. The Kanji characters used are moon, fire, water, wood, gold, earth and sun.


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## Rankiryu (Aug 13, 2015)

1. Movement Japan - US Market version

2. Made In Japan - Korea, Taiwan, Middle East version

3. 4R36 - Version marketed to many parts of the world


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## powerband (Oct 17, 2008)

SiDave said:


> This is interesting and I would like to pick up a J model while in Japan next momth


Why? For the experience of buying a watch in Japan, or is there something special about a "J" model?

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## powerband (Oct 17, 2008)

journeyforce said:


> There are currently 3 variations of the dial.
> 
> 1. Movement Japan- US Market version
> 
> ...


This post is worth quoting a few times here and elsewhere.

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## 74notserpp (Oct 12, 2014)

1130UTC said:


> This. I have a 775 in the mail, but I think I'm going to have to add a roman numeral 777 to my collection at some point.
> 
> Perhaps someone whos got a roman numeral 777 could let us know if its a J or a K or if its just 777 without the suffix. And where did they purchase it from?





timetellinnoob said:


> for me it'd be cool to add a roman numeral (or chinese) Pepsi in the future =)


My SRP779k purchased from Singapore based Ebay seller










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## 1130UTC (May 18, 2013)

74notserpp said:


> My SRP779k purchased from Singapore based Ebay seller
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks 74notserpp.


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## daveyoha (Jan 22, 2016)

powerband said:


> This post is worth quoting a few times here and elsewhere.
> 
> Sent from my slingshot using Tapatalk


Agreed, this is the info I have been looking for a while now, however if not quite what I was hoping was true. It does seem reasonable that none of these are actually assembled in Japan given the MSRP and then the lower price for which they can be found on ebay etc.


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## daveyoha (Jan 22, 2016)

I guess then the real question is does anyone have any idea where these new SRP's are actually being produced/rather assembled since I'm sure the movements and at least some components are made in Japan?


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## in.Time (Sep 23, 2015)

daveyoha said:


> Agreed, this is the info I have been looking for a while now, however if not quite what I was hoping was true. It does seem reasonable that none of these are actually assembled in Japan given the MSRP and then the lower price for which they can be found on ebay etc.


What I can't understand was why would the company actually state only the movement was made in Japan or the case was made in China. Also, if the J models are made for the Asian market, then, why would they have Arabic day wheels in them?


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

powerband said:


> Why? For the experience of buying a watch in Japan, or is there something special about a "J" model?


the watch is said to not be sold on the Japanese market. I don't think J designation is used in the context of being sold/consumed by primarily the japanese market. it's just a letter that happens to be the same as the name of the country, which funnily enough Japan doesn't call itself Japan (i don't think, right?)

I look at the J thing almost completely as a myth. i believe it's all labeling regulations, and nothing else. there are subtle variations amongst them (notably with the SKX007J, it has different dial text), but usually with the date wheel. some say the J is Made in Japan, for Japan, and is better in all aspects. some say there are higher levels of finish on the J's compared to the K's. some say the J's are made in overseas factories 'headed by japanese management'... or something, again making them 'better'.

I personally think Seiko punches out and machines millions of tiny parts, some labelled in different subtle ways on the dial, the caseback, the rotor as intended by market, and assembled and shipped accordingly from the same bunches of factories in different places. I would be legitimately be surprised if any of this level budget of diver saw any assembly in Japan. maybe the top of the toppest shelf is the only stuff that has that distinction...


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## Man of Kent (Jun 10, 2012)

Just come back from 2 weeks in Tokyo and I can confirm that neither SKXs or SRP turtles appear to be sold there. Believe me, I searched high and low. Plenty of sumo and other higher-end divers for sale though.


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## in.Time (Sep 23, 2015)

Man of Kent said:


> Just come back from 2 weeks in Tokyo and I can confirm that neither SKXs or SRP turtles appear to be sold there. Believe me, I searched high and low. Plenty of sumo and other higher-end divers for sale though.


Mate, did you get a look at the model number or did you see "made in japan" written anywhere on the watch?


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## Davidhu (Jan 6, 2012)

View attachment P_20160306_102820_SRES.jpg
J Model with "Made in Japan " on dial & caseback , Chinese day wheel


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

Interesting, so the Turtle is sold in Japan?


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## Davidhu (Jan 6, 2012)

Not sure, i got it from Taiwan .



cuthbert said:


> Interesting, so the Turtle is sold in Japan?


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## artblakey (Feb 15, 2016)

Man of Kent said:


> Just come back from 2 weeks in Tokyo and I can confirm that neither SKXs or SRP turtles appear to be sold there. Believe me, I searched high and low. Plenty of sumo and other higher-end divers for sale though.


Yeah, it really is odd. I remember doing a search for them on Amazon.co.jp as I was curious about the domestic pricing, they're all listed as 'import'. *mind blown* Are our Japanese friends really deprived of the SKX goodness :-(


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## in.Time (Sep 23, 2015)

Davidhu said:


> Not sure, i got it from Taiwan .


David, can you read kanji or chinese? Sunday is the same character in Chinese and Kanji.


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## Davidhu (Jan 6, 2012)

sorry , my poor English. it should be Chinese day wheel.



in.Time said:


> David, can you read kanji or chinese? Sunday is the same character in Chinese and Kanji.


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## in.Time (Sep 23, 2015)

Davidhu said:


> sorry , my poor English. it should be Chinese day wheel.


Thanks David! It's really good to see a Chinese day wheel.


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## journeyforce (Apr 20, 2013)

in.Time said:


> What I can't understand was why would the company actually state only the movement was made in Japan or the case was made in China. Also, if the J models are made for the Asian market, then, why would they have Arabic day wheels in them?


J models are made for the Middle Eastern Market and not the Asian market. The K model is made for the rest of the world. It has to do with the customs of the countries. A place like Jordan, requires the origin of the company that makes the item to be listed on the products. The USA does something just like it except that they want the country listed that the item is made in.


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## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

in.Time said:


> ...Also, if the J models are made for the Asian market, then, why would they have Arabic day wheels in them?


It's *SELECTED ASIAN* Market, not the whole ASIAN market.
HongKong, Taiwan, China, as well as Japan gets the J make with Chinese Day wheel, while in Japan, probably Kanji. 
Other ASIAN countries like Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philipines, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam gets the K makes and Roman Day wheels.


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## in.Time (Sep 23, 2015)

Ed.YANG said:


> It's *SELECTED ASIAN* Market, not the whole ASIAN market.
> HongKong, Taiwan, China, as well as Japan gets the J make with Chinese Day wheel, while in Japan, probably Kanji.
> Other ASIAN countries like Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philipines, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam gets the K makes and Roman Day wheels.


Loads of the J models are sold in Singapore. Why don't they have the Arabic day wheel instead of the Chinese day wheel?


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## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

in.Time said:


> Loads of the J models are sold in Singapore. Why don't they have the Arabic day wheel instead of the Chinese day wheel?


Yes... There're indeed loads of J makes swimming around in the market... however, if you had noticed, majority of these J makes are parallel imports and comes with Arabic day wheel. Those minority J makes with local warranties honored, are either under the higher end PRESAGE range, or with ROMAN day wheels with the regular range... such as the over popular SKX0xx diver as the most recent Scallop. 
No sight of Chinese day wheel watches that comes with local warranties... In contrast, CITIZEN watches with local warranties, comes with Chinese day wheel.


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## kinoushiki (Sep 21, 2009)

I have looked at Japanese watch blogs, and the general consensus is that the label "Made in Japan" is just to meet regulations in certain Middle East countries, as others have stated. Moreover, "made in Japan" doesn't mean the actual product is assembled in Japan, but rather refers to the _national origin of the manufacturing company_, i.e. Seiko being headquartered in Japan. Given that the K and J models have the same MSRPs, it is highly likely they are manufactured in the same SE Asian or Chinese factories, and just the labeling is different to meet individual market regulations. That J models are less discounted than K models is a fortunate phenomenon for watch dealers.


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## artblakey (Feb 15, 2016)

kinoushiki said:


> I have looked at Japanese watch blogs, and the general consensus is that the label "Made in Japan" is just to meet regulations in certain Middle East countries, as others have stated. Moreover, "made in Japan" doesn't mean the actual product is assembled in Japan, but rather refers to the _national origin of the manufacturing company_, i.e. Seiko being headquartered in Japan. Given that the K and J models have the same MSRPs, it is highly likely they are manufactured in the same SE Asian or Chinese factories, and just the labeling is different to meet individual market regulations. That J models are less discounted than K models is a fortunate phenomenon for watch dealers.


That's interesting. So they're the same product of the same factories. That makes me wonder about all the anecdotes of people who believe J watches have better workmanship (aligned chapter rings, etc).

That said, I'm trying to find details of these market regulations, but not really locating anything specific. 
If this were true, this would mean all Casio watches sold in that region would also have to be labelled as Made in Japan? Same goes for all Sony products ;-)


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## Mr. James Duffy (Feb 2, 2016)

Tangential example: I have a SRP701K1 and a SRP703J1 and the 703J runs A LOT faster than the 701K which is only +4s per day. MYTH BUSTED! (Not really. I just wanted to say it.)


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## in.Time (Sep 23, 2015)

I just got a reply from Seiko regarding the SRP775J1:

"
In reply to your inquiry, concerning SRP775J1, it is manufactured in our production facility in Japan,as it displays the marking "JAPAN." Concerning the letters "J," they are only a part of the model reference number,and they have no particular significance from a consumer viewpoint."

So it is made in Japan but I don't think this person is being truthful about the letter J in the model number.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

in.Time said:


> I just got a reply from Seiko regarding the SRP775J1:
> 
> "
> In reply to your inquiry, concerning SRP775J1, it is manufactured in our production facility in Japan,as it displays the marking "JAPAN."Concerning the letters "J," they are only a part of the model reference number,and they have no particular significance from a consumer viewpoint."
> ...


Interesting, so the K are made abroad?


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## artblakey (Feb 15, 2016)

in.Time said:


> I just got a reply from Seiko regarding the SRP775J1:
> 
> "
> In reply to your inquiry, concerning SRP775J1, it is manufactured in our production facility in Japan,as it displays the marking "JAPAN." Concerning the letters "J," they are only a part of the model reference number,and they have no particular significance from a consumer viewpoint."
> ...


This person (A Seiko rep??) must think consumers are idiots. Lol. You place 'J's at the end of a model number of watches that bear the word " Japan" and claim there's "no particular significance".

Wow, I guess it's just an amazing serendipitous coincidence that *J*apan starts with the letter *J*!

I personally don't think it matters where it's made as long as it's made well, but there really needs to be some clarity on the matter.


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## CharlieBandroid (Feb 10, 2013)

Re: Where Seiko Watches Are Really Made - A Juicy Mistake? Some cultures have taken a lesson from a famous American former President, setting the intended actual meaning and definition of words quite alternate to their common and supposedly textural norm. It depends on what your definition of "is" is.....

If you can define "made in Japan" by law as having little bits and pieces cut, molded, cast, stamped, and created in Lower Boltavia, those pieces being fit to each other in Wagistan (by fine Wagistani crasftsmen at that!), all in factories owned by Nippon Offshore Factory Company, who leases them to Seiko, at that point you can also say that the NOF local manager, who "supervises" the assembly, actually is only making sure the Wagistani craftsmen punch their time cards within the alotted check in time every morning. And you can also define the Wagistani craftsmen as the group of people who uncrate the Lower Boltavian parts each shift for that shifts production, and merely dump them willy-nilly into hoppers. That being the same as the famous watch "making" studio high in the central mountains, who actually can claim that title because they take the Wagistani movements and bracelets out of a shipping drum, and put each into a nicely printed watch box, which recently arrived by the starfreighter-load from Planet Frengus.

I still love my Sumo, no matter if its a Lower Boltavian / Wagistani red herring of an odd duck's stepchild. I say that because the Frengusian box is out of this world! ​


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## thisnameistaken (Sep 19, 2014)

If you are in the UK Yorkshire Watches are selling the J versions for prices lower than Ebay, which bear the words, 'made in japan'. These have English plus Arabic day wheels. 

Maybe they have had some basic regulation - mine is flawless in construction and running bang on, but it is early days!


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## Lanceteer (Dec 16, 2014)

Ed.YANG said:


> ...as well as Japan gets the J make with Chinese Day wheel, while in Japan, probably Kanji.


Someone obviously didn't read the thread before posting. The J version of the turtles, or any version for that matter, is not available in Japan unless it is reimported. There is no kanji version anywhere that isn't a mod.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

journeyforce said:


> J models are made for the Middle Eastern Market and not the Asian market. The K model is made for the rest of the world. It has to do with the customs of the countries. A place like Jordan, requires the origin of the company that makes the item to be listed on the products. The USA does something just like it except that they want the country listed that the item is made in.


Requirements are different by product category. In the USA, for watches, any imported must state on the outside, where a consumer can see it without having to remove the case back, where the movement was "made". "Made" for watches per US import regulation means where the last "substantial modification" in the assembly took place. The definition of "substantial modification" is somewhat vague.

We know that starting with the 4r36 Monster, Seiko's with that movement made for import into the USA (sold by Seiko's authorized USA AD's) have "mvt Japan" on the face and case back. We also know that most lower end Seiko movements, to include the 6r15, are at least partially made off shore. We also know in Japan, per various Japanese international trade agreements, parts made in certain countries in a factory owned and operated by a Japanese can be imported into Japan and used to make finished products that can be consider to be "made in Japan" if sold in Japan (i.e for the Japanese market).

So the Turtle, like the 007, and like many lower end JDM, are the end result of many parts, assembled into various stages of manufacturer, that have been made in China, Japan, etc. Something is done to the 4r36 in Japan, that's all we know for sure. And not some, but all of them. All 007's were cased outside Japan, so I suspect the same is true with all Turtles. Logic says they, like the 007's, were all made from the same part made in the same factories and assembled and cased in one factory. The model numbers simple designate the countries Seiko will export them for sale, and thinks like rubber or metal bracelet, color variation, etc.


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## Whitershadeofpale (Apr 17, 2016)

I don't think it makes a hill of beans to most folks. The most important thing that's on the dial is SEIKO!


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## Tickstart (Oct 30, 2015)

The japanese model (J) has a movement made of solid rhodium, is water resistant to not 200m like the K-version but 200 parsecs. The oils inside are actually He4, zero viscosity and the movement will never require a service. The accuracy is better too, obviously.


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

Whitershadeofpale said:


> I don't think it makes a hill of beans to most folks. The most important thing that's on the dial is SEIKO!


It doesn't; or shouldn't at least. the physical differences come down to tiny letters and where they are on the watch. i get people _hoping _there's something "mythological" about that J, but the truth is it's mostly all bunk. =)


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## Whitershadeofpale (Apr 17, 2016)

Tickstart said:


> The japanese model (J) has a movement made of solid rhodium, is water resistant to not 200m like the K-version but 200 parsecs. The oils inside are actually He4, zero viscosity and the movement will never require a service. The accuracy is better too, obviously.


You know, I was thinking the same thing. My Grand Seiko has the bridges made out of Moon shale. Not many if any at all knows this.


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## jaeiger (Mar 9, 2014)

timetellinnoob said:


> It doesn't; or shouldn't at least. the physical differences come down to tiny letters and where they are on the watch. i get people _hoping _there's something "mythological" about that J, but the truth is it's mostly all bunk. =)


Agreed. I've worked a little bit in manufacturing & production; a proper QC process is all that matters in churning out a great product. Doesn't matter if it's in China or anywhere else.


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

jaeiger said:


> Agreed. I've worked a little bit in manufacturing & production; a proper QC process is all that matters in churning out a great product. Doesn't matter if it's in China or anywhere else.


Plus, wouldn't it be all Seiko machinery in all these factories no matter the location?

one of the funny things about the J is, isn't J usually meant for middle eastern markets? as J's often have the arabic/english days? so why would THAT market get the 'mythological better production' J models? I think people see J and assume J = Japan but the letter could just as easily be B or P or R or whatever. imo. If the watches were "J" meaning any of these: JDM/made In Japan/made for only the Japanese market etc, wouldn't it have _Kanji_ days? Under the logic people seem to use in [a Seiko + J = "better" "Japan made version"], Seiko is making "better" middle eastern watches for their own country. hmm.

so in all truth, it seems to me, that the unfortunate choice of the J letter designation is the source and perpetuation of the myth... poor letter choice = manufacturing myth.

all imo!


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## aalin13 (Apr 2, 2010)

timetellinnoob said:


> Plus, wouldn't it be all Seiko machinery in all these factories no matter the location?
> 
> one of the funny things about the J is, isn't J usually meant for middle eastern markets? as J's often have the arabic/english days? so why would THAT market get the 'mythological better production' J models? I think people see J and assume J = Japan but the letter could just as easily be B or P or R or whatever. imo. If the watches were "J" meaning any of these: JDM/made In Japan/made for only the Japanese market etc, wouldn't it have _Kanji_ days? Under the logic people seem to use in [a Seiko + J = "better" "Japan made version"], Seiko is making "better" middle eastern watches for their own country. hmm.
> 
> ...


To be fair, the wording of Japan on the dial and the case back does make a difference for some. I paid $20 more for a SKX007J over a K, despite knowing that there's no difference between the two, and both are probably made in the same factory. It is just something special for me to see the word "Japan" printed/etched on the watch, even though it probably isn't actually made in Japan


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## nevada1995 (Dec 24, 2014)

I have worked in manufacturing for almost my entire career, not in the watch industry. This Japan or Swiss vs the rest of the world is kind of silly. These companies are global, they have established quality standards, assembly time standards, standardized parts and work instructions (in diff languages). Quality can vary from plant to plant but only to the minimum standards established by the manufacturer. For example, the Japanese plants may have the worst quality in the company or the best but it's not based on the country, it's based on the culture/work ethic of the plant regardless of the country of manufacture. I understand that ppl associate quality with a certain countries but that would be wrong.


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## appleb (Sep 30, 2015)

aalin13 said:


> To be fair, the wording of Japan on the dial and the case back does make a difference for some. I paid $20 more for a SKX007J over a K, despite knowing that there's no difference between the two, and both are probably made in the same factory. It is just something special for me to see the word "Japan" printed/etched on the watch, even though it probably isn't actually made in Japan


It's nice to have 'Made in Japan' on the dial, but the arabic day wheel is kind of a deal breaker to me. It doesn't feel quite as purely Japanese anymore. It would be nice if they offered more SKX007J's with the roman day dial.


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## Rosenbloom (May 9, 2016)

My "J" turtle.


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## RowdyRon (Aug 12, 2014)

I've tried to keep up with this discussion by reading every single post. At the end I'm still confused. To add to the confusion, my SRP787 only reads: "4R36-04Z4 R 2" on the dial face, and no "made in" anything anywhere either front dial, or case back. As others have mentioned, I'm of a mind to not really care as long as it works well. I will admit I was simply curious about manufacture after reading these earlier posts. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has ideas on my watch!


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

RowdyRon said:


> I've tried to keep up with this discussion by reading every single post. At the end I'm still confused. To add to the confusion, my SRP787 only reads: "4R36-04Z4 R 2" on the dial face, and no "made in" anything anywhere either front dial, or case back.


It's a K not J. Not Japan made.


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## RowdyRon (Aug 12, 2014)

Thanks for the info. Mine doesn't say "mov't" or anythying else on it either. Just the number. I just thought that was peculiar since nobody else mentioned anything similar.


El @ said:


> It's a K not J. Not Japan made.


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## mbhawks23 (Jun 20, 2016)

nevada1995 said:


> I have worked in manufacturing for almost my entire career, not in the watch industry. This Japan or Swiss vs the rest of the world is kind of silly. These companies are global, they have established quality standards, assembly time standards, standardized parts and work instructions (in diff languages). Quality can vary from plant to plant but only to the minimum standards established by the manufacturer. For example, the Japanese plants may have the worst quality in the company or the best but it's not based on the country, it's based on the culture/work ethic of the plant regardless of the country of manufacture. I understand that ppl associate quality with a certain countries but that would be wrong.


Exactly. People that claim the J version is superior or this version is superior to that usually have no objective data that proves it. The quality control measurements conducted in these plants are not available to the public. I've talked to people that have had J and K versions of the same watch. Some people say the J is better and some say the K is better. I can understand having a personal preference but trying to convince other people one is better than another is kinda dumb.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

RowdyRon said:


> Thanks for the info. Mine doesn't say "mov't" or anythying else on it either. Just the number. I just thought that was peculiar since nobody else mentioned anything similar.


All non-Japan made turtles are like that. No country is mentioned at all.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

mbhawks23 said:


> Exactly. People that claim the J version is superior or this version is superior to that usually have no objective data that proves it. The quality control measurements conducted in these plants are not available to the public. I've talked to people that have had J and K versions of the same watch. Some people say the J is better and some say the K is better. I can understand having a personal preference but trying to convince other people one is better than another is kinda dumb.


In my experience people wanting the J (of any Seiko) version does not claim that is better, but just that they like it more and that's it.


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

My 773 is a K model and my 777 is a J model. The 777 wasn't advertised either way. 


David
Instagram: alienswanted


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## RowdyRon (Aug 12, 2014)

Thanks for the info!


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

El @ said:


> It's a K not J. Not Japan made.


None of the Turtles are made in Japan; they are all made in the same factory, same lines, etc.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

RowdyRon said:


> I've tried to keep up with this discussion by reading every single post. At the end I'm still confused. To add to the confusion, my SRP787 only reads: "4R36-04Z4 R 2" on the dial face, and no "made in" anything anywhere either front dial, or case back. As others have mentioned, I'm of a mind to not really care as long as it works well. I will admit I was simply curious about manufacture after reading these earlier posts. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has ideas on my watch!


It is made in the same factory as all the other Turtles. None are made in Japan. Most likely Malaysia or China; likely the same factory that made the SKX's.

People claiming one is better than the other reminds me of something I recall a doctor saying years ago: he preferred Advil over Motrin, claiming Advil worked better. Funny thing was, at the time, the same pill manufacturer, Upjohn, made Advil, Motrin, Nuprin, and Private Label. All on the same lines, in same factory, from the exact same formula; all that was different was the color of the pill, stamp on the pill, and the box they went in.


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## Dav25 (Jan 18, 2016)

The difference on dial lettering has to do with what market/country they are a going to even though they are made in the same place..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Dav25 said:


> The difference on dial lettering has to do with what market/country they are a going to even though they are made in the same place..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's incorrect. If the dial says made in Japans some parts or manufacturing steps are made in Japan. Same as for the Swiss. There are regulations (which you can search), it is not a game to total deception.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

Dup pls ignore


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## Rosenbloom (May 9, 2016)

I used to have a J version of turtle SRP773. I always thought J was better than K. But now I am no longer that sure ... :think:

When I went buying a 773 J, the shop owner was nice enough to let me choose among 5 to 6 pieces. To my surprise there was only one piece without alignment issue. I picked that one. It is running -15 to 20 sec / day. :roll:

The other day I went for a 777 K. The shop owner again let me choose among the only two pieces available there. Both are perfect in terms of alignment. The one I picked is running -1 to 2 sec / day! b-)

Now J and K mean very little to me.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

El @ said:


> That's incorrect. If the dial says made in Japans some parts or manufacturing steps are made in Japan. Same as for the Swiss. There are regulations (which you can search), it is not a game to total deception.


The Swiss Parliament enacted regulations that define specific requirement that need to be true in order for a Swiss manufacturer to claim (i.e. market) a watch as "Swiss Made". They recently upgraded those requirements, effective 2017. Switzerland took these steps because the watch industry is of particular importance to that country.

Japan, as many if not most nations do, has regulations regarding what defines "Made in Japan".

There are "country of origin" regulations that apply to products produced and sold within a particular country, and often a different set of "country of origin" regulations for products imported into a country for sale. All these regulations may be industry-specific, product specific, and\or use specific (i.e. imported as parts, raw materials, for finished goods). There are many additional complications, such as the various trade packs and agreements between nations.

In the USA, a legally imported watch must clearly have marked on the case the "country of origin" of the movement. For watches, "country of origin" per US regs is defined as the last place a significant modification to the movement was made.

Theoretically, if a watch is assembled in Turkey, with only the leather in the strap sourced and put on in Turkey, and the movement was almost completely assembled in China, but rotor was screws on in Japan before it was sent to Turkey to be assembled into the watch, the Hong Kong company that owns the brand and imports the finished watch in to the USA would by US regs only need to mark "Mvt Japan" on the case or dial to meet USA requirements.

At the same time, a watch "produced" and sold domestically in the US must have "all or virtually all" of its parts and components made in the USA in order to claim "Made in USA" according to FTC requirements. If 95% of the watch is comprised of parts made outside the USA, the company can skirt "Made in USA" with "Built it". If the movement in that watch is purchased from a Swiss owned company, but made in China, from 100% parts sourced from outside the USA ... BUT there is a "significant" final modification done in the USA (i.e. the rotor screwed on), that watch can be advertised as "Mvt USA", "USA Mvt with Swiss parts".

To further complicate things, there are trade pacts between nations. Japan has various agreements in Asia. In some agreements, parts or components made in a Japanese company's own factory in certain countries can be brought into Japan without being subject to import duties, tariffs, or requirements. In other words, commingled with other parts being used to manufacture a finished item.

So what does all this mean?

As WUS members and other watch fans have known for many many years, a Japanese Domestic or JDM watch marked "Made in Japan" may not be actually "Made in Japan": it may be partially assembled in Japan, or even mostly assembled in Japan, from some or most components made all over Asia. It may be assembled completely outside Japan, but the movement was 50% assembled in Japan. How much is really "Made in Japan", and parts made by Seiko, is more likely greater with top line Seiko's and less so for low even lines. In reality, so called "JDM" Seikos are intended for sale in Japan, and are not exported by Seiko to their AD's outside Japan. (Note: that does not mean these watches are not sold outside Japan; rather, in means how they get there is not via Seiko exporting them.)

For non "JDM" watches, "Made in Japan" means the country Seiko is exporting has import regulations that allow the watch to be marked as such. Same for "Movement Japan". Or "Made in Malaysia". Of course, that applies only if Seiko is doing the exporting: via the gray market any watch can end up anywhere for sale.

There is no Santa Claus, and there are no "Made in Japan", "holy grail turtles" that are superior to the "K" or other Turtles. Same was true for the SKX line the Turtle replaced.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

nepatriot said:


> In the USA, a legally imported watch must clearly have marked on the case the "country of origin" of the movement.


That is what we're told. Consequently, the turtles K, which do not have *any* country of origin marking are imported illegally in the US. Looks like retail giants as in Amazon, Sears, not to mention Seiko ADs are not worried the slightest about that.


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

nepatriot said:


> The Swiss Parliament enacted regulations that define specific requirement that need to be true in order for a Swiss manufacturer to claim (i.e. market) a watch as "Swiss Made". They recently upgraded those requirements, effective 2017. Switzerland took these steps because the watch industry is of particular importance to that country.
> 
> Japan, as many if not most nations do, has regulations regarding what defines "Made in Japan".
> 
> ...


I love a Patriots fan. We get things done!

GO PATS!

David
Instagram: alienswanted


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

El @ said:


> That is what we're told. Consequently, the turtles K, which do not have *any* country of origin marking are imported illegally in the US. Looks like retail giants as in Amazon, Sears, not to mention Seiko ADs are not worried the slightest about that.


Not "illegal". If I'm Sears or Amazon, I can buy items from any source I want to. I can sell that watch to you on line, and have it shipped directly to you as a consumer from the Philippines via Amazon via an virtual warehouse. Or I can buy the watches in the Hong Kong from a 3rd party distributor who sells Seiko watches on the gray market (i.e. perfectly legal, just not an AD, so no warranty), have them shipped to an Amazon "virtual" warehouse, then sell to you on line and ship to you from that warehouse ... "fulfilled by Amazon". The virtual warehouse can be in Mexico, Malaysia, etc. Or that 3rd party can ship me the watches to my DC in the US; it's up to them to handle any export\import issues. They're not the mfg, and they are not planning to sell the watches via their own network in the US, so that may even bypass certain import requirements.

A company I once worked for manufactured products in the US, China, Mexico, India, and the EU. We had situations where a US retailer might by a product made India, and intended for the Indian and Middle East markets, from a gray market importer in the USA. That product might be identical in most ways to the same product made in one of the other countries, but carry a different warranty and other items (instructions, disclosures, added components, etc) that are required for the countries we ended to sell it in, based on the consumer laws on those countries. In one case I recall, there was a plug type issue: had the wrong plug for the US. When consumers complained, the retailer directed them to us; we kindly direct them back to the retailer. In another case, the retailer wanted to return the unsold product because it was not selling: it looked similar to the US version, but was actually a different product: mechanical components, features, added value items, etc. Because this was a commonly used item that is purchased frequently, and we advertise a lot, consumers could tell the difference right away. We kindly directed the retailer back to the gray market importer.

We could not have imported those items into the US for sale because they did not meet various requirements; the gray market retailers could, because they were not going to sell them directly to consumers in the US. For all they knew, the retailers they sold too were going to sell those items outside the USA. The retailers did nothing wrong: they did not import them in to the USA.

As a general rule, for gray market in any country, it's "buyer beware". A good gray market seller will state somewhere on their advertisement or web site that they, vs the mfg, are warrantying the watch. That means you have no warranty claim to service in the US, and will have to send it back to the seller. If you trust the seller, it just means some extra steps if you need help. i'm sure Amazon and Sears will honor their warranty if the item is defective. Won't be much help for service down the line, but there are plenty of places to have a seiko serviced outside the authorized service centers. Especially for lower line watches like those using the 4rXX movement.

One of the best camera retailers in the US, with a world wide reputation for excellent service, sells gray and USA versions of many things. They clearly identify gray vs. USA product in their ads and on line store. They warranty the gray market items themselves. I have bought some gray market items from them without problems, but would not save a few bucks that way on something that I may need warranty service on down the line.

Hope that help!


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Dec1968 said:


> I love a Patriots fan. We get things done!
> 
> GO PATS!
> 
> ...


Sounds like you my be a "displaced" fan? I've got a neighbor who grew up on Dallas, has been here for 25 years, but remains a huge Cowboys fan. Kills him that his sons are Patriots fans, but we all have a lot of good natured fun. My son is 17; he and his friend get upset when the Patriots don't get far in the playoffs. I tell him how spoilt he is: when I was his age, and until relatively recently, the Patriots were the bottom of the NFL.

How do you think they will get things done the first 4 games? That's all the talk up here on sports radio.


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## Tickstart (Oct 30, 2015)

As I stated in this or some other thread, the J version is superior. It's made from a rhodium-platinum alloy coated with white gold (because it's relatively cheap and shiny). You also get a free Lexus LFA with every J-watch purchase.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

nepatriot said:


> Not "illegal". If I'm Sears or Amazon, I can buy items from any source I want to. I can sell that watch to you on line, and have it shipped directly to you as a consumer from the Philippines via Amazon via an virtual warehouse.


No, I'm talking about watches sold by Seiko USA without any "virtual warehouse". If the US regulations (as you said before) prescribes that imported watches must carry country of origin, then *every watch imported* has to comply - no exceptions. Not a big deal really but a simple fact which has nothing to do with warranty, color of the market, etc.


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

Grew up in Rhode Island.......now here......displaced is an appropriate word.



nepatriot said:


> Sounds like you my be a "displaced" fan? I've got a neighbor who grew up on Dallas, has been here for 25 years, but remains a huge Cowboys fan. Kills him that his sons are Patriots fans, but we all have a lot of good natured fun. My son is 17; he and his friend get upset when the Patriots don't get far in the playoffs. I tell him how spoilt he is: when I was his age, and until relatively recently, the Patriots were the bottom of the NFL.
> 
> How do you think they will get things done the first 4 games? That's all the talk up here on sports radio.


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

Without TB12, 2-2 if they're lucky. Those defenses are going to pounce on Garappolo......


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

El @ said:


> No, I'm talking about watches sold by Seiko USA without any "virtual warehouse". If the US regulations (as you said before) prescribes that imported watches must carry country of origin, then *every watch imported* has to comply - no exceptions. Not a big deal really but a simple fact which has nothing to do with warranty, color of the market, etc.


If physically imported by Seiko USA for sale in the US by the their USA AD network, I'd bet Seiko is complying with all US regulations. As for warranty, a Seiko imported by Seiko's USA, for sale by its USA AD's, should come with a USA warranty card.

But that does not mean it is impossible for a USA AD to sell Seiko's that are "J" or "K". Sellers can buy Seiko's from other sources, and I have bought aoccasional "J" and "K" Seiko's from USA AD's. I don't know what rules Seiko may have for their AD's regarding gray market watches. The few I had were sold clearly as gray market, and did not have a USA warranty.

It also does not mean all "Mvt Japan", i.e. marked for the USA market Seiko's, will come with a USA warranty: an non-Seiko AD can obtain and sell USA Seiko's as gray market. Those watches are likely to not come with a Seiko USA warranty; if they do, I don't believe it's active because the seller was not an AD.

In both cases, I'm sure those watches were not "imported" in a formal sense, but rather occasional small purchases the fly under the radar screen.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Dec1968 said:


> Grew up in Rhode Island.......now here......displaced is an appropriate word.


Hey I'm also a clam cake by birth!


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Dec1968 said:


> Without TB12, 2-2 if they're lucky. Those defenses are going to pounce on Garappolo......


I think you're spot on with that. It will certainly be an exciting season.


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

nepatriot said:


> I think you're spot on with that. It will certainly be an exciting season.


Expect a run heavy offense games 1 and 2 and a pass heavy game plan for game 3 in the first half, and then they'll assess what's working and what's not and adjust accordingly.

They're going to want to throw it against Houston a lot and keep JJ Watt in coverage as best as they can. A lot of dink and dunk passes.


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## El @ (Dec 28, 2012)

nepatriot said:


> If physically imported by Seiko USA for sale in the US by the their USA AD network, I'd bet Seiko is complying with all US regulations. As for warranty, a Seiko imported by Seiko's USA, for sale by its USA AD's, should come with a USA warranty card.


So why SRP77x sold in USA imported by Seiko USA and sold by Seiko ADs do not have the country of provenience stamped on either case or dial? Again, we're NOT talking about warranty.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

El @ said:


> So why SRP77x sold in USA imported by Seiko USA and sold by Seiko ADs do not have the country of provenience stamped on either case or dial? Again, we're NOT talking about warranty.


Sorry, not understanding you. SRP's imported in to the USA by Seiko USA, for sale via Seiko USA's AD network, *DO* comply with US regs: "Mvt Japan" *is* printed on the dial; "Movement Japan" *is* stamped on the case back. Why do you believe this is not so?

Note that the US reg is not where the "watch" was made; rather , it is where the last modification to the movement was done.

A movement can be almost completely assembled in Australia, then shipped to Iceland, where the last part of the assembly is completed; the completed movement could then be shipped to Tibet for assembly into a finished SRP777, and the case back would be stamped "Movement Iceland" per USA regulations.


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## SeikoSicko (Jul 29, 2016)

cogman said:


> Fellow WISes,
> 
> I have googled this concern of mine but unfortunately, there has been no definitive answer.
> 
> ...


I would think that the Made in Japan ones are better, but there are alignment problems abound. Not sure about movements...


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

It baffles me how people don't get this.....



nepatriot said:


> Sorry, not understanding you. SRP's imported in to the USA by Seiko USA, for sale via Seiko USA's AD network, *DO* comply with US regs: "Mvt Japan" *is* printed on the dial; "Movement Japan" *is* stamped on the case back. Why do you believe this is not so?
> 
> Note that the US reg is not where the "watch" was made; rather , it is where the last modification to the movement was done.
> 
> A movement can be almost completely assembled in Australia, then shipped to Iceland, where the last part of the assembly is completed; the completed movement could then be shipped to Tibet for assembly into a finished SRP777, and the case back would be stamped "Movement Iceland" per USA regulations.


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## SeikoSicko (Jul 29, 2016)

Tickstart said:


> As I stated in this or some other thread, the J version is superior. It's made from a rhodium-platinum alloy coated with white gold (because it's relatively cheap and shiny). You also get a free Lexus LFA with every J-watch purchase.


LOL

Yes.


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## SeikoSicko (Jul 29, 2016)

THe bottom line here is that if I am going to return watches until I get one that is to my liking, then I prefer it to be a Made in Japan watch than elsewhere as I would expect to have to return fewer.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

SeikoSicko said:


> THe bottom line here is that if I am going to return watches until I get one that is to my liking, then I prefer it to be a Made in Japan watch than elsewhere as I would expect to have to return fewer.


Yes, I do the same.

The "J" Turtles are assembled by highly trained 3rd generation master watch makers, using state of the art robotics, from parts fabricated by the world's most advanced precision equipment, out of top grade metals and jewels. The "K" versions are assembled from parts made using Korean War era surplus Chinese canned soup company machinery, from recycled and second grade metals, discount jewels, by street urchins in Malaysia.

My "K"'s have always arrive in dirty busted boxes, scratched cases and crystals, often with dirt and hair floating around inside under the glass.

Wish they would go back to the way they made all the 007's: all in one factory, on the same assembly lines, in Malaysia. Man, those were the days...


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

Dec1968 said:


> It baffles me how people don't get this.....


I guess some people just want to believe.... Their Honda's are made in Japan, their Ford made in the USA, their Maytag in Michigan, their Nikon make in Japan, and their $500 "Swiss watch" case and movement made by master craftsman in Switzerland.

At least my llbean boots are still assembled in Maine.


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## wakemanna4 (May 21, 2015)

nepatriot said:


> I guess some people just want to believe.... Their Honda's are made in Japan, their Ford made in the USA, their Maytag in Michigan, their Nikon make in Japan, and their $500 "Swiss watch" case and movement made by master craftsman in Switzerland.
> 
> At least my llbean boots are still assembled in Maine.


Yessah, LL Bean and Old Town Canoe (though for all I know Old Town Canoe very well may outsource their work)


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

nepatriot said:


> Yes, I do the same.
> 
> The "J" Turtles are assembled by highly trained 3rd generation master watch makers, using state of the art robotics, from parts fabricated by the world's most advanced precision equipment, out of top grade metals and jewels. The "K" versions are assembled from parts made using Korean War era surplus Chinese canned soup company machinery, from recycled and second grade metals, discount jewels, by street urchins in Malaysia.
> 
> ...


Yep






David
Instagram: alienswanted


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

SeikoSicko said:


> I would think that the Made in Japan ones are better, but there are alignment problems abound. Not sure about movements...


Maybe check another thread for answers......I think someone posted some facts there.....LOL

David
Instagram: alienswanted


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

nepatriot said:


> Yes, I do the same.
> 
> The "J" Turtles are assembled by highly trained 3rd generation master watch makers, using state of the art robotics, from parts fabricated by the world's most advanced precision equipment, out of top grade metals and jewels. The "K" versions are assembled from parts made using Korean War era surplus Chinese canned soup company machinery, from recycled and second grade metals, discount jewels, by street urchins in Malaysia.
> 
> ...


Man, next time I'm up there, the beer is on me. That made my day!!!

David
Instagram: alienswanted


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

Seems like the J and K discussion has been taking place over here as well.

Hmmmmm....if at first you don't succeed, try try again (in a different forum).

Brand new Seiko SKX007 minor issues

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...hare_tid=3468545&share_fid=13788&share_type=t

David
Instagram: alienswanted


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## 59yukon01 (Aug 27, 2014)

Buying a "J" version means you got "jacked" for extra dollars for the same watch. This issue has been beaten to death here many times.


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## Dec1968 (Jan 24, 2014)

59yukon01 said:


> Buying a "J" version means you got "jacked" for extra dollars for the same watch. This issue has been beaten to death here many times.


SeikoSicko doesn't seem to get that.....no matter how much proof is thrown his way, he thinks 'Made in Japan' on the dial means exactly that.

David
Instagram: alienswanted


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

Papi2.0


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## Captain Koos (Aug 17, 2016)

Hmm. My K Turtle ticks along losing less than 10 sec over three weeks. No faults except a way less than butter smooth crown wind down. Is anyone getting that from a J?


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## Raydius (Jul 26, 2016)

nepatriot said:


> Sorry, not understanding you. SRP's imported in to the USA by Seiko USA, for sale via Seiko USA's AD network, *DO* comply with US regs: "Mvt Japan" *is* printed on the dial; "Movement Japan" *is* stamped on the case back. Why do you believe this is not so?
> 
> Note that the US reg is not where the "watch" was made; rather , it is where the last modification to the movement was done.
> 
> A movement can be almost completely assembled in Australia, then shipped to Iceland, where the last part of the assembly is completed; the completed movement could then be shipped to Tibet for assembly into a finished SRP777, and the case back would be stamped "Movement Iceland" per USA regulations.


I can verify this. Both my SRP775 (purchased from Seiko boutique NYC in-person) and SRP637 (purchased from Kenjo, also in-person) say "MOV'T JAPAN" on the dial and "MOVEMENT JAPAN" on the case back. Neither of the 2 have any chapter alignment issues. The SRP775 runs a bit more accurate than the SRP637 which runs a little fast. I think this is just their accepted amount of variance, unrelated to the model designation. Consequently, they both have Spanish as the alternate language.


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## Alden (Jul 24, 2015)

Tickstart said:


> The japanese model (J) has a movement made of solid rhodium, is water resistant to not 200m like the K-version but 200 parsecs. The oils inside are actually He4, zero viscosity and the movement will never require a service. The accuracy is better too, obviously.


The rhodium movement also measures the neutron flux level in the watch's fission reactor.


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## kevio (Dec 21, 2015)

Captain Koos said:


> Hmm. My K Turtle ticks along losing less than 10 sec over three weeks. No faults except a way less than butter smooth crown wind down. Is anyone getting that from a J?


I assume that you're talking about screwing down the crown? I had the same issue on my Padi Turtle. The simple fix is to use waxed floss and floss the threads. It made tightening down the crown really smooth. Sorry I don't recall if mine is a K or J but it says movt Japan on the dial.


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## Skody (Oct 4, 2013)

About 75usd, I got the k model


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## GunWale (Oct 19, 2007)

timetellinnoob said:


> Papi2.0


lol. would kinda look forward to a Seiko "Papi" edition ~ complete with a tiny black spec on the dial and a full year accuracy "log" to enter in timing measurements every hour and a special box to enter how fast one was walking with the watch.


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## Cobia (Nov 24, 2013)

Both are exactly the same apart from a few letters, Casio does this too, they put a higher price on because they know people will buy them for more money if it has J on it.


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## timetellinnoob (Sep 23, 2010)

Cobia said:


> Both are exactly the same apart from a few letters, Casio does this too, they put a higher price on because they know people will buy them for more money if it has J on it.


I think this is more a case of vendors doing that... I think casio would set their MSRP's or whatever, but Casio doesn't go 'hey we'll just slap a J on the same watch, people will pay more'. That doesn't sound legal.

so it sounds like a case of vendors noticing people will pay more for a watch intended for a different market that so happens to have a minor cosmetic difference.


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## effers (Sep 19, 2012)

Any difference with the day wheel on K vs J versions? Debating which one to pick up


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## bizkid76 (Dec 29, 2015)

effers said:


> Any difference with the day wheel on K vs J versions? Debating which one to pick up


Depends on which model. Eg. the latest Blue Lagoon Turtle and Samurai K model with production of 6000pcs worldwide unlike the J model only produce 100 or 300pcs only. Correct me if im wrong. Day wheel for BL turtle will be Chinese and English.

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## UAV-OPS (Jan 9, 2016)

It's fairly cut and dry for most people, they just want to know where the products they buy are produced, if it reads Made in U.S.A. or Made in Japan they should be able to be assured that their product was indeed made or at least assembled in one of those countries, for instance. Now I know these days it's not exactly that simple and you can't always (as explained in this thread) trust these designations but you can not fault someone for expecting a little bit of actual meaning/truth behind "Made in" markings.


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## Toshk (Aug 3, 2015)

I've had the K and 2x J 777s. 

The K version was much better made. Perfectly aligned and everything. 

My fist J had unevenly brushed and polished case. The second I bought came with misaligned chapter ring and something which looked like an eye lash, stuck on the hour hand lume...


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## r171pt (Jan 5, 2017)

In my personal experience both are the same. In the beginning I went always for the J version because thought it was better. 

Now I realize how foolish I was. J versions in Europe are a good deal for... the sellers that charge you with more euros for that.


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## Spirit of the Watch (Jun 29, 2015)

Can i just add something I feel was overlooked.

That day/date wheel is different...... that's a sufficient reason to pay more of one has a preferenc


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## Spirit of the Watch (Jun 29, 2015)

journeyforce said:


> There are currently 3 variations of the dial.
> 
> 1. Movement Japan- US Market version
> 
> ...


I really wish there was a way to get one w/ Roman Numerals in the States............


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## casablancawatch (Feb 6, 2009)

no. and my dial is misaligned at 6. returning it.


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## casablancawatch (Feb 6, 2009)

*MY J is not good. Re: Differences Between Seiko Turtle Reissue K and J models*

great thread, a lot i didn't know vis a vis the different meanings 'made in' has for Japanese watches.

i too for awhile a few years ago, being ignorant, sought out the J made in Japan versions. i just assumed everything was cool. but after getting some way off chapter rings and rotating bezel pips/arrows, on a sumo, i realized seiko had some major QC issues. this was about a year ago.

then a few weeks ago, prior to reading this thread, i purchased a J turtle, 'made in japan', and checked the top lumed marker at 12, and it was right on, though the watch was running 15 sec fast a day. which is in tolerances, but not delightful.

anyway, i saw a post on facebook where a guy was returning his 62mas reedition because the date was not centered in the window. i went to check my new turtle to see if the date was centered...it was ever so slightly off, not enough to upset. but while looking at that i saw that the 6 lumed marker was noticeably off. now that's going back.

as i now understand the J watches are nothing special, just 'japan marked' for mideast markets, this makes this QC lapse not unexpected. as i've found out with a number of seiko divers, no matter the price point, they seem to have all over the place accuracy and definite bezel, marker and chapter alignment issues. you could luck out, or a lot of the time not. the best thing to do if you are buying a watch where quality and alignment issues are important, is get 2 and return the one that is less quality controlled. sad you have to do this with seiko, but these issues are pretty standard. they occur more often by far than less expensive, less quality expected brands, such as invicta.


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