# The SLGH005 Shirakaba "White Birch" Thread



## singularityseven

I suspect that the SLGH005 is going to be a very successful model, and figured I'd make a dedicated thread so that folks can share their photographs, videos and thoughts here.

I bought my first Grand Seiko about a month ago (Four Seasons SBGA415) and made the terrible mistake of visiting the Nature of Time pop-up in NYC last week. I'm already thinking of my next GS, and I think it's going to be the White Birch.

I was fortunate enough to try on a demo unit (locked movement) of the SLGH005, as well as the SLGH003, and I was blown away by the new case design. It was unbelievably comfortable on wrist, and I realized once again how difficult it is to capture a Grand Seiko on camera, because none of these pictures do it justice. But here they are anyway!


























































And here's some photographs with my SBGA415, just to let it know it might have a sibling sometime this year.

























And the SLGH003 since I mentioned it:

















I'm sold on this new case design, and I can't wait to see more folks get theirs and share photographs!


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## egwatchfan

It sure looks magnificent... especially in your pictures 3,4,5, and 6. I don't particularly like how it looks in the harsh light, but in the flatter light it looks spectacular. Not sure I'm convinced it provides double the value of a snowflake, but that's a separate issue. And that SLGH003 is a stunner as well. Can't wait to see these in person one day.


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## uncle234

My only gripe about the white birch is that the blue second hand pinion is "uncapped". The snowflake seconds hand looks better because it is nicely capped.


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## egwatchfan

uncle234 said:


> My only gripe about the white birch is that the blue second hand pinion is "uncapped". The snowflake seconds hand looks better because it is nicely capped.


indeed!!!


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## sticky

You say that your photos don’t do the WB justice but I think they have a damn good try at it.


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## GSNewbie

The only one to blame is my wife😉😁
I am going to buy the White Birch, SLGH005.
It will be delivered to me this weekend.
I am excited and looking forward to the watch almost like I did with my first watch.
I am especially excited to see the caliber.
Will report, of course I let speak also pictures.


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## singularityseven

egwatchfan said:


> It sure looks magnificent... especially in your pictures 3,4,5, and 6. I don't particularly like how it looks in the harsh light, but in the flatter light it looks spectacular. Not sure I'm convinced it provides double the value of a snowflake, but that's a separate issue. And that SLGH003 is a stunner as well. Can't wait to see these in person one day.


The harsh light photographs are what put me on pause w.r.t to the Birch. I decided I'd see it in person passing final judgement and I think it is a lot more pleasant than photographs make it appear. Showroom lights don't do this watch any favors, which is why I managed to grab a few shots outdoors too.



uncle234 said:


> My only gripe about the white birch is that the blue second hand pinion is "uncapped". The snowflake seconds hand looks better because it is nicely capped.


I don't understand this either. The snowflake and skyflake have caps, but my Winter (SBGA415) does not. And now the Birch doesn't either. ?‍♂



sticky said:


> You say that your photos don't do the WB justice but I think they have a damn good try at it.


Thanks the kind words!



GSNewbie said:


> The only one to blame is my wife??
> I am going to buy the White Birch, SLGH005.
> It will be delivered to me this weekend.
> I am excited and looking forward to the watch almost like I did with my first watch.
> I am especially excited to see the caliber.
> Will report, of course I let speak also pictures.


Awesome, congratulations! Please share photographs as soon as it arrives.


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## singularityseven

As usual, Watchfinder did an exemplary job at capturing the dial and movement.


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## GSNewbie

singularityseven said:


> The harsh light photographs are what put me on pause w.r.t to the Birch. I decided I'd see it in person passing final judgement and I think it is a lot more pleasant than photographs make it appear. Showroom lights don't do this watch any favors, which is why I managed to grab a few shots outdoors too.
> 
> Awesome, congratulations! Please share photographs as soon as it arrives.


Thanks, yes I will definitely do that. Also an unboxing I will document pictorially.
Too bad I have no experience in blogging or vlogging, otherwise I would have also shot a video.
Outdoor photos, also on the wrist I will definitely make, because I am also interested in whether possibly the dial, as some say, looks like tin foil in certain situations.
But where are your outdoor photos, can't see them?


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## Nokie

Excellent review of a very good looking watch. I too would think this model will be very popular.


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## JumpJ37

Awesome photos! They def do the watch justice, some of the best I’ve seen. I’ve been waiting for almost two months for mine. Seems to be a very slow rollout of this model.


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## Brent L. Miller

Great photos, thanks for sharing!


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## GSNewbie

The package has already arrived this afternoon.
Now it's time to unpack.
But I'm not sure if I should post so many pictures now, or just describe my impression here.
Probably the TS has already posted enough meaningful pictures.


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## GSNewbie

Does anyone know when the date should switch on the new caliber?
My watch switches just under 9 minutes after midnight.


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## singularityseven

GSNewbie said:


> View attachment 15840667
> 
> 
> The package has already arrived this afternoon.
> Now it's time to unpack.
> But I'm not sure if I should post so many pictures now, or just describe my impression here.
> Probably the TS has already posted enough meaningful pictures.


You MUST post as many pictures as humanly possible. It is the requirement of this thread


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## GSNewbie

Well, thoughts etc. should also be posted here.
By the way, a great idea from you.
Well, since I am possibly the first here registered buyer of the White Birch, I'll let a few photos speak for themselves, unboxing😎


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## GSNewbie

Here is the SLGH005 on the scale. 
The other pictures show the different face of the White Birch.
I like them all.
I'm curious to see how it performs on the wrist.


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## singularityseven

Wow, congratulations and that looks wonderful!


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## GSNewbie

Thank you.
My problem is now, that I need to shorten the bracelet.
I‘ll do it tomorrow.
I think that I‘ll also post some Pics from the caliber, which is really incredible and beautiful.
These pics will be better than the pics where taken with my old iPhone 6s😉


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## buggravy

Congrats! That's a really beautiful piece. I'll be curious to hear how much it picks up and reflects silver and grey more than white. I see a lot of pics where it really shows grey, and looks fantastic.


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## GSNewbie

Thanks.
Tomorrow I will post some pictures that give an even better impression of the dial.
It is ultimately a matter of taste.
To be honest. If the dial didn't leave this many different impressions, I'd probably be less fascinated.
But even the sometimes white shimmering dial has its own charm.
GS has really designed this excellently, in my opinion.
I hope that the caliber will also convince me of the performance. Visually, it is "upper league" for me.


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## bibbibart

Congrats on the WB!

I am especially interested in your comments on the new bracelet. I have a small wrist (16cm) and whereas the smaller case is a great change, I am very much affraid of the new, wide and not-tapered, bracelet.


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## GSNewbie

Hi guys, here as promised more pictures of my watch with a better camera.
I would also like to embed a video, still have to see how that works, because it's over 20MB. Coming back to the question with the wrist circumference,
I can only say that my HGU measures 19cm.
The new bracelet is tapered, from 22mm to 20mm.

But I will compare this model with my SBGA407 and post the data later.
Crucial is as with many things in life, the personal impression should be the deciding factor.
As we all know, Size doesn't matter 
Now enjoy the pictures (are not edited)







It is funny that a Patek glove assist for a shooting of a GS Where are the GS gloves?🤔


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## singularityseven

GSNewbie said:


> Hi guys, here as promised more pictures of my watch with a better camera.
> I would also like to embed a video, still have to see how that works, because it's over 20MB. Coming back to the question with the wrist circumference,
> I can only say that my HGU measures 19cm.
> The new bracelet is tapered, from 22mm to 20mm.
> 
> But I will compare this model with my SBGA407 and post the data later.
> Crucial is as with many things in life, the personal impression should be the deciding factor.
> As we all know, Size doesn't matter
> Now enjoy the pictures (are not edited)
> 
> View attachment 15843106
> It is funny that a Patek glove assist for a shooting of a GS Where are the GS gloves?🤔
> View attachment 15843108
> View attachment 15843112
> View attachment 15843115
> View attachment 15843121
> View attachment 15843125


Wow that looks amazing, thanks for sharing. It looks great on your wrist!


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## GSNewbie

Thank you very much again.
A final picture still with the watch on the wrist. The coloring of the indices and the hour and minute hands was done by a reflection.
A pink colored orchid was nearby








Questions about the bracelet and dimensions of the case I will try to answer tomorrow.
Spring has just arrived in Germany - thought it no longer exists.
Still have a lot to do in the garden


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## websturr

My second GS. Quite an interesting upgrade going from titanium on the Snowflake to the steel on this one lol.


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## GSNewbie

Congrats. When does the date switch at midnight on your watch?
The case size measures 47mm
From case left to right, including crown, I measured 43mm.
Hope the info brings something to the people who have a narrower wrist.


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## buggravy

Gah, all these beautiful pics. I really need to get eyes and hands on one of these. I simply can't justify it in the scope of my current 3-watch collection, but as the crown jewel seeing lighter duty in a 2-watch collection, it could work. It certainly has me thinking.


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## websturr

GSNewbie said:


> Congrats. When does the date switch at midnight on your watch?
> The case size measures 47mm
> From case left to right, including crown, I measured 43mm.
> Hope the info brings something to the people who have a narrower wrist.


I missed the date switch lol
I'll let you know in the next day or so


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## GSNewbie

You already know that you can also test it manually?😉
So you do not have to wait until midnight😁


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## websturr

GSNewbie said:


> You already know that you can also test it manually?😉
> So you do not have to wait until midnight😁


haha yeah, i saw a video on YouTube with the date switching over instantly.
The date on my watch one day behind, I will force the date to change just because you asked lol =)


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## websturr

GSNewbie said:


> Congrats. When does the date switch at midnight on your watch?
> The case size measures 47mm
> From case left to right, including crown, I measured 43mm.
> Hope the info brings something to the people who have a narrower wrist.


seems to have switched the date 12:10am


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## GSNewbie

I'm glad we understand each other.😎
I didn't ask you to try it, I just pointed out that you can test it manually.😂
I will probably get an answer from GS here to the question of what Factory tolerance is provided for the date switching, coming next week. 
Because neither here in the forum, nor at the GS Boutique one could answer the question.
Too bad. 
As an example of excellent, always available information on the question of movement functions, Rolex.
Date switching and the acceptable tolerance provided for Rolex modern movements is: -2/+2 minutes to midnight.

Also a note. 
The switching of the date can still vary slightly (1-2 minutes). Depending on whether you manually adjust the date, or let the watch automatically run into the date change.
Cheers.


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## JumpJ37

I’ve been waiting for my Birch since it was released (AD got two and I’m third on the list). They pushed it back another month. Has anyone seen new stock come in anywhere? Seems odd that a new “flagship” watch is in such short supply out of the gate, unless they are starting to play the Rolex game. 

Another thing I’ve noticed is that there haven’t been any reviews from the big watch sites. I assume this is because they have not received review units. Just another thing that makes me feel like something is strange with this launch.


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## Losoboy

Hi All, I’m new to the forum but been lurking for a few months. Here’s my two cents. I don’t think GS is playing that Rolex game. I was told by the Boutique that production of the new movement is the reason for the short supply. They can’t make the movements fast enough, perhaps because it’s fairly new. They actually had one in stock when I visited, but turned it down, waiting for a SD model. Seems like the best way to get these are at the Boutique. They get priority of the shipments ahead of the ADs.


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## GSNewbie

Hello folks,
unfortunately I had to return my White Birch aka SLGH005.
The watch showed an unexplainable difference between the position, dial up and dial down.
With dial down the watch ran 11-13 seconds forward in 24hours.
This is not at all according to GS specifications and I wonder how the watch could leave the GS studio like this.
My watchmaker master said that it could be possibly just an adjustment to the height position of the balance - hope I have expressed myself correctly there🤔
It was further noted on the time balance that the watch has a high drop error, 1.6-1.8ms.
Acceptable to my knowledge and experience would be values up to 0.4ms.

The issue of date switching has not yet been answered from Japan.
But I will still announce.
I am now waiting for my second White Birch - hopefully tested with more care...


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## whineboy

GSNewbie said:


> Hello folks,
> unfortunately I had to return my White Birch aka SLGH005.
> The watch showed an unexplainable difference between the position, dial up and dial down.
> With dial down the watch ran 11-13 seconds forward in 24hours.
> This is not at all according to GS specifications and I wonder how the watch could leave the GS studio like this.
> My watchmaker master said that it could be possibly just an adjustment to the height position of the balance - hope I have expressed myself correctly there
> It was further noted on the time balance that the watch has a high drop error, 1.6-1.8ms.
> Acceptable to my knowledge and experience would be values up to 0.4ms.
> 
> The issue of date switching has not yet been answered from Japan.
> But I will still announce.
> I am now waiting for my second White Birch - hopefully tested with more care...


Not the first report here of surprisingly poor timekeeping by the new movement. I'm sure GS will fix it (and the work has to be done in Japan, I've heard, which is a plus). One reason why I'm a late adopter of new tech. Good luck.

See posts 5 & 12: 9SA5 Service location

Edit - if the beat error is ~ 1.7 ms, that is indeed much too high. I have watches with 1/10th that value.



Losoboy said:


> Hi I don't think GS is playing that Rolex game. I was told by the Boutique that production of the new movement is the reason for the short supply. They can't make the movements fast enough, perhaps because it's fairly new.


I heard the same thing - only a few of the seniormost Meister watchmakers work on these. It's a matter of training more, which takes time.

Having a great time.
whineboy


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## bibbibart

GSNewbie said:


> Hello folks,
> unfortunately I had to return my White Birch aka SLGH005.
> The watch showed an unexplainable difference between the position, dial up and dial down.
> With dial down the watch ran 11-13 seconds forward in 24hours.
> This is not at all according to GS specifications and I wonder how the watch could leave the GS studio like this.
> My watchmaker master said that it could be possibly just an adjustment to the height position of the balance - hope I have expressed myself correctly there
> It was further noted on the time balance that the watch has a high drop error, 1.6-1.8ms.
> Acceptable to my knowledge and experience would be values up to 0.4ms.
> 
> The issue of date switching has not yet been answered from Japan.
> But I will still announce.
> I am now waiting for my second White Birch - hopefully tested with more care...


Probably an early childhood phase [correction: teething problem ] problem. On the other hand it is great service if they just supply a mew piece to you! (instead of servicing the current one). I'd say that's unusual (at least in Europe)!


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## GSNewbie

@whineboy 
Hi whineboy,
thanks for the link. 
My watch has been taken back by the dealer.
I will get a completely new watch.
Yes, the master watchmaker also said he would always wait at least a year for a new caliber until the supposed "teething troubles" are eliminated.
Precisely because this movement should also be a flagship for GS, I had dared to buy this model. 
Well, at least the new SD caliber in my SLGA001 runs excellent😉


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## bibbibart

whineboy said:


> Not the first report here of surprisingly poor timekeeping by the new movement. I'm sure GS will fix it (and the work has to be done in Japan, I've heard, which is a plus). One reason why I'm a late adopter of new tech. Good luck.
> 
> See posts 5 & 12: 9SA5 Service location
> 
> Edit - if the beat error is ~ 1.7 ms, that is indeed much too high. I have watches with 1/10th that value.
> 
> I heard the same thing - only a few of the seniormost Meister watchmakers work on these. It's a matter of training more, which takes time.
> 
> Having a great time.
> whineboy


I'm not sure if it's only me - but I'm registering an unprecedented interest of watch fans accross the globe in Grand Seiko. The new black is GS. Adding the fact that the Shirakaba IS a stunning watch, plus so much better marketing from GS, it is no wonder IMHO that thr White Birch is scarce at ADs.


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## GSNewbie

I don't think that has exclusively reasons to do in manpower the empowered employees at GS.
Probably there will be fewer people working in the studio also because of Corona.
I see many brands, mainly from Switzerland, alleged delivery bottlenecks due to capacity. 
Probably the watch manufacturers also use the situation caused by Corona to enforce a higher price on the market- but that is another topic and would be OT.

Nevertheless, if a watch leaves the studio, GS should also maintain the standard and its own claim.


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## KILOFINAL7

personal opinion, but the gorgeous dial is ruined with the bottom text of 80 hours etc. Looks more like a billboard


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## JumpJ37

KILOFINAL7 said:


> personal opinion, but the gorgeous dial is ruined with the bottom text of 80 hours etc. Looks more like a billboard


I initially decided to pass on it solely because of the "80 Hours". But as I learned more about it, the combination of Hi-Beat 36000 and 80 Hours signifies an amazing technical achievement in watchmaking and so I understand why they both make sense on the dial.


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## egwatchfan

Yikes. Not good to hear that there are movement troubles already but I’m sure GS will get them sorted out quickly and make everything right. (Or at least I hope!!). Let us know how it goes.


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## GSNewbie

I think that the text is excellent in two rows of SLGH005.
With the SLGH003, the addition of "Automatic" was also too much for me.
I think that if you look at the caliber, e.g. in comparison of a GO SeaQ with the 36 caliber - without wanting to emphasize the technical difference here now - the GS caliber is a feast for the eyes and seems to me much more delicate in the finish.
Yes, there are probably minor starting problems with the caliber. But that didn't stop me from ordering a new White Birch immediately.
The confidence is still unbroken.
I will report how it looks now with the date switching and which problems were really responsible for the small defects - if they tell me.


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## Linden_way

I am absolutely smitten with this piece the dial is just incredible.


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## egwatchfan

Linden_way said:


> I am absolutely smitten with this piece the dial is just incredible.
> 
> View attachment 15859857


It sure looks like a stunner in your image. I see what you love it so much!!


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## TransporterG

singularityseven said:


> I don't understand this either. The snowflake and skyflake have caps, but my Winter (SBGA415) does not. And now the Birch doesn't either.


The white birch dial and hour hand are terrific! New flagship reference like the Snowflake?

Good call on the disconnect on the caps. Shizukuishi (Iwate Prefecture, the Hi-Beat Factory) has different executions for their watches, so comparing with the Seiko-Epson Shinshu Spring Drives, they will be different.


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## GSNewbie

Quick update and info for anyone interested in the White Birch.
For those who want to test the watch on the time scale,
it makes currently no sense to put the watch because of the amplitude, or the beat error on the time scale. 
The values shown here are not meaningful.
However, the rate per layer is still meaningful.


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## SpringDriven

GSNewbie said:


> Quick update and info for anyone interested in the White Birch.
> For those who want to test the watch on the time scale,
> it makes currently no sense to put the watch because of the amplitude, or the beat error on the time scale.
> The values shown here are not meaningful.
> However, the rate per layer is still meaningful.


If I understand you correctly:

A normal timing machine is unable to read the amplitude or beat error properly of this new GS movement.

This is because a normal timing machine is designed around the Swiss lever escapement.

This new GS movement does NOT have a Swiss lever escapement, therefore the timing machine would be in error, not the watch. The timing machine would show incorrect values due to the escapement being radically different from a Swiss lever.

So there was nothing actually wrong with your watch right?


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## GSNewbie

Wrong. The watch runs in one position outside the GS standards.
Except that in the course of the review these additional facts came up, the watch still runs with an operation of 13-14 seconds in one layer to fast.
This means neither within the specification from the GS, nor in any other chronometer standard😉.


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## GSNewbie

The time scales are not basically designed for Swiss movements, because they do an excellent job also for the Hi-Beat calibers from GS that were produced so far.
So it is indeed the case that, due to the new design, the correct setting of the timegrapher should first be communicated by GS.
That's why I shared this information right here, because at least in Germany, in my experience, not everyone was aware of it and people here are still waiting for information from GS.
After the Information given by GS and a setup for this new caliber from GS on the timegrapher there will be no more incorrect data anymore.😉
We can therefore say that the time scale at least currently displays one value correctly, the rate per position of the clock.
Unfortunately, however, neither the values of the amplitude nor the beat error are correct. Therefore, it is also currently simply impossible to isolate the error of the wrong rate per position.


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## SpringDriven

It will take more than settings...

Standard timing machines designed for the Swiss lever escapement listen to five "knocks" or impacts that occur in the operation of the Swiss lever.

1. Unlock
2. Escape wheel tooth on the impulse face of the pallet stone
3. Impulse to the balance wheel
4. Lock
5. Run to the bank

The new Seiko movement does not use a Swiss lever escapement, it uses a fairly unique escapement that would not have the same five impacts during the operation. So there are no settings you can adjust to properly time this movement in a standard timing machine. The timing machine would require a new program, from Seiko I assume, as this is not an industry standard escapement from what I understand. 

I am going to guess that only Seiko can currently properly time this movement.


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## GSNewbie

You are right, of course.
It takes a little more than just adjusting the settings.
Had wanted to represent this a little simplified.
Also correct again.
At the moment, GS is only able to read out the caliber correctly with the technical values.
In direct comparison with two other watches of the same model, but it is still noticeable that the watch returned by me, of the values is still grossly off here.
It is therefore particularly regrettable that when currently only the manufacturer can assess the watches technically correctly, a watch with this error could leave the house with a certificate...
After all, the caliber is the flagship of GS, or so I thought.


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## SpringDriven

GSNewbie said:


> You are right, of course.
> It takes a little more than just adjusting the settings.
> Had wanted to represent this a little simplified.
> Also correct again.
> At the moment, GS is only able to read out the caliber correctly with the technical values.
> In direct comparison with two other watches of the same model, but it is still noticeable that the watch returned by me, of the values is still grossly off here.
> It is therefore particularly regrettable that when currently only the manufacturer can assess the watches technically correctly, a watch with this error could leave the house with a certificate...
> After all, the caliber is the flagship of GS, or so I thought.


I am going to say that I do not believe your fault is with Seiko or the watch. I work with many brands. All of their QC works. I rarely see a timing issue with a new watch that is not related to the owner of the watch.

I am not convinced a simple timing issue in one (or more) position that you observed indicates a problem with the brand, the movement or their QC. I am not saying your watch does not have a timing issue. But I am saying it may not be related to anything you are complaining about. The watch could have been dropped for example and not by you. Even landing on a carpeted floor would cause no noticeable harm to the case but create a timing issue.

Either way I am certain your problem will be corrected. If not this particular watch may not be a good fit for you and your demands.


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## GSNewbie

To believe you go to church😉
The SBGJ237 I bought also had a defect - you can believe it or leave it.
I presented the SLGH005 with a little unboxing documented pictorially here.
The clock has neither fallen on the carpet with me, nor is to assume that it was grossly negligent, or negligently transported.
As it is sometimes in life, you can sometimes grasp in luck😉
As I wrote, the watch is no longer my problem-I am getting a new watch🥳
If a massive process in one position of the clock is to complain, but all other positions of the clock show no abnormalities - only the "normal" deviation - then it stands to suspect that this is a processing, assembly problem.
As I also wrote, I will report if and when I am given details by the dealer.


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## SpringDriven

The QC performed on a watch before releasing it to retail sale would observe a rate error that you saw. This is a fact. An issue like this is not overlooked, missed, ignored etc.

It did not leave the factory with the error. The watches do not come off an assembly line sent directly to you with a timing fault. The watch went through some hands before you received it.

What CAN happen is a fault in lubrication where a timing error can show up some time after QC is completed or through an impact.

Also, for whatever reason dial down, which you observed an error, may not be an adjusted position or an observed position in a QC timing test in some brands. Therefore what you observed could be normal. It is not like we keep our arms in the dial down position for 24 hours when the watch is worn right? No, the watch is meant to be worn and will be in many positions as we wear it. An adjusted wrist watch is not adjusted for one position right? It keeps the best time when worn normally in a dynamic environment removed from impacts and vibrations.

This is why I say it is unlikely the fault is with quality control.

Why am I kicking this dead horse?

1. You are convinced Seiko QC is at fault.

"This is not at all according to GS specifications and I wonder how the watch could leave the GS studio like this." "I am now waiting for my second White Birch - hopefully tested with more care..."

2. I am trying to help you and others understand that QC does its job. But problems can occur after QC is complete. That does not mean poor QC, or a black mark to the brand. Give them an opportunity to correct your perceived problem before saying negative things.


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## GSNewbie

Hello again.
I think our conversation is quite good. After all, I can only report from my experience as a consumer and watch collector.
In my experience, it is so that only a few watches, regardless of manufacturer, are actually visually and technically in perfect condition.
But at least good enough for quite a few customers to be satisfied with what they have received.
So it is also a question of the horizon of expectation.
Only a few people know how the QC actually works at GS, so maybe you want to report on that?
Maybe I can visit GS in Japan sometime.
As you rightly write, I had asked how it is possible that a watch, which runs outside the tolerance, can leave the studio. This question is not only valid, but also justified.
However, I would also ask this question of other manufacturers.
Even certified watches, in my experience, do not always run as certified by the manufacturer.
What the reasons for this are, I can not and do not want to judge, only the result counts and on that also refers to the respective manufacturer. That I tested Dial Down, by the way, corresponds to the test conditions of GS, the watch is tested in 6 positions.

In addition, we may have a different way of looking at defects.
It's not about who's to blame, but about how to avoid defects, which is one of the tasks of a QC😉
My standards are high, yes.
But I think that GS is certainly one of the few manufacturers that can meet my requirements.
As I said, I am confident - otherwise I would be out with the White Birch😉

We can talk further via PN, since it is too OT to the actual thread, out of respect for the TS.


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## Roningrad

Congratulations! One stunning hi-beat GS there!


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## SpringDriven

I do not wish to private message this conversation, because my intent is to share understanding with everyone.

I am a certified watchmaker. Therefore I have an understanding of what is entailed to QC a watch after service as that is one of my tasks.

There are two things that my QC can not detect, because they are not immediately obvious or checked at all.

1. Timing in positions as a generality. (If GS tests in six positions, bravo. As I am not a watchmaker authorized to work on their watches, I am not knowlegeable as to what their testing requirements are.) A watch movement is designed and adjusted for a number of positions. The higher the number the better. Five positions is common in say a COSC chronometer. Dial up and dial down, crown down, crown left and crown up, heat and cold (as temperature can effect rate unless the watch is adjusted for it). So not all static positions are checked during QC, because the watch is not adjusted to run within tolerance in that static position.

Now, when brand marketing advertises a rate, for example -2 to +4 seconds per day. Not all positions will necessarily MEET that target, especially a position the watch is not adjusted for. It is the average of the adjusted positions that will meet that advertised rate. Rate also changes as the amplitude changes. What is important is that the watch meets those requirements as an average over 24 hours.

One brand I time for QC, I fully wind the watch, set the time to the second to establish a zero point for timing and leave it in the stem left position for 24 hours. After 24 hours I record how much time it has gained in that position. It may NOT be within the established rate limits, but the testing is not over yet. Next I place it on an orbital simulator to simulate being worn in motion for 24 hours. After 24 hours I check the rate of the watch in all required positions and verify the amplitude. This verifies the automatic winding system is keeping the watch wound while in motion. I also record the time gained since the start. This should be within the advertised range. Next I set it dial up for 24 hours. After 24 hours I will record the time the watch gained and time it for all adjusted positions and verify the amplitude is acceptable after running with no winding for 24 hours.

I now have tested the watch for 72 hours. I take the rate it gained each 24 hour test period and add them together and divide that by three. This is the average daily rate for the watch test and it must be within the advertised tolerance. The last part of the test is to let it run down to verify the power reserve. So in my test if the first day it ran +5, and the last two days it gained +2 and +2 that would be nine seconds gained over three days. Divide that by three and the watch averaged three seconds per day, which is within the advertised specifications I made up above, as an example.

We are not in motion 24 hours a day, so the test must mix both static and dynamic tests to be a good indicator of the watch performance. If I statically test a position that the watch is not adjusted for, it will not be in tolerance. There are many reasons for this, most of which is a lesson in what a watch adjustment is, and an understanding of the theory of isochronism which is rate independent of amplitude which entails all the things that harm good timekeeping.

So in QC, a position the watch is not adjusted for is not tested statically, as it will not meet specification AND allow the other positions to be in tolerance as well. Not all brands that I work with test the dial down position, as an example.

2. Errors in lubrication, or impacts that effect lubrication, or cleanliness in service that can effect lubrication. I or anyone else will not see these issues in QC because they do not always immediately reveal themselves as an issue that affects the rate of the watch. They sometimes take a while to change enough to make a noticeable difference. The watches presumably are assembled and lubricated by humans. We make mistakes, even in the cleanest environment.

This is what the warranty covers, a mistake or error that does not reveal itself until sometime much later than the QC was performed and the watch passed. It takes time for the problem to become obvious after a service or initial assembly when new. Sometimes in a new movement design a lubrication problem does not reveal itself until much later than what all of their internal testing discovered. This leads to examination of the problem and a change in how the movement is serviced going forward, with the warranty covering the work required to correct it.

So, QC was performed on your watch before it left Seiko. It definitely met specifications at that time. Watches are delicate little machines and they are not digital in their timekeeping. Many things can affect them between leaving QC and being purchased. Yes, watches can fail, but not due to QC, not in the way the industry giving an advertised daily rate will test every single watch before releasing them to the public. It is much more likely something else has caused your observed error, than the watch leaving Seiko out of tolerance.


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## GSNewbie

Of course, we can keep the conversation open here.
So, I'm not a watchmaker, yet I think I understand quite a bit about watches, as well as movements.
Maybe some fellow readers here will have something from your explanations.
As I said, what was wrong with the watch, whether the defect existed before, or occurred after, or was caused by external influences, may be impossible to answer.
As far as I know, GS tests in 6 positions, so also with ZU (dial down). This is again a static measurement for this position. The same applies to the other 5 positions.
That's why GS gives out two different values for their movements, but only one value is covered by the warranty, namely the dynamic range. The static values have, as you have written so well, rather relevance for marketing. Since the watches are worn dynamically, i.e. on the wrist.
A watch or movement is particularly good when the deviation between the positions is small, GS also has specifications for this.
If you look at the specifications of GS with the watch I complained about, these specifications are unfortunately not met.

As I said, when I get details, I will report.
Because of the defect of the SBGJ237 I will ask again what was defective and post here.
You can then certainly say how likely it is that the watch left the factory with this defect, or whether the defect could have occurred later, in whatever way.

One final thing on the subject of QC. 
I have already had several watches from other manufacturers in my hands, originally packaged at the dealer, which should neither meet the optical requirements of a QC, nor technically within the specifications of the respective manufacturer.
Since only people work here, it is not surprising, rather normal, that even defective products can leave a company.
Therefore, I am also relaxed in this matter.
We can then like to talk tomorrow, here is now midnight😉 and I also have to work to be able to buy me nice things


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## sd7r83

Does anyone else have this problem with their clasp to bracelet connection link?


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## GSNewbie

Sorry about the link and clasp.
I can only report that on my wrist the watch sat flawlessly and I did not have this problem.
I would just get a replacement link.
Good luck and enjoy the WB.


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## sd7r83

I'm going to send it in for warranty.


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## singularityseven

An honest review of the White Birch from Fratello - ►► Grand Seiko White Birch SLGH005 (2021) Hands-On Review

While I appreciate the honesty, I think it was pretty clear (to me at least) from early on that this watch was silver and not white. But good points either way.


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## reluctantsnowman

singularityseven said:


> An honest review of the White Birch from Fratello - ►► Grand Seiko White Birch SLGH005 (2021) Hands-On Review
> 
> While I appreciate the honesty, I think it was pretty clear (to me at least) from early on that this watch was silver and not white. But good points either way.


I read this too, and thought, Fratello what gives with all the honesty.

Jokes aside, not seeing the watch, I would have expected it to be white too. Silver is kinda disappointing and a missed opportunity imho.


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## singularityseven

reluctantsnowman said:


> I read this too, and thought, Fratello what gives with all the honesty.


😂 😂 😂


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## reluctantsnowman

singularityseven said:


> 😂 😂 😂


They also reported about the end link that makes it longer. Did you notice that as well?


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## singularityseven

reluctantsnowman said:


> They also reported about the end link that makes it longer. Did you notice that as well?


Yeah it has a "male" end link, but the center link section curves down quite a bit, so it's not significant unless your wrist width is at the lug-to-lug limit of the watch.


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## Overwound

singularityseven said:


> An honest review of the White Birch from Fratello - ►► Grand Seiko White Birch SLGH005 (2021) Hands-On Review
> 
> While I appreciate the honesty, I think it was pretty clear (to me at least) from early on that this watch was silver and not white. But good points either way.


A fair and honest article but I'm with you in that it appeared silver to me from the start.

I guess it's natural to associate birch with pure white but they come in other varieties. This watch looks to be modeled after silver birch, which is white but has a silver like sheen. Japanese birch is more pure white and likely what many seem to have expected, going by comments here and on Fratello. Kind of odd how they specifically named it white birch instead of something more accurate to its appearance.

The watch has such an amazing dial and the new movement really is a solid upgrade. I can only hope the same or similar movement architecture is offered in watches a bit lower on the price scale. This is just personal hope and nothing against the SLGH005.


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## GSNewbie

My opinion of the Fratello article is ambivalent.
I can agree with the writer that the first impression can be, hey, I expected a white dial, but there were already quite a few pictures on the net that showed that the watch also appears rather shiny silver in certain situations.
What I can not understand at all is that the watch should shimmer white in sunlight, the opposite is rather the case. Also, my experience and pictures shows rather the opposite. The clock appears white in quite a few situations indoors, in daylight, in direct sunlight rather silver, sometimes even shimmering with many thousands of colored light points - you have to like.
For me, this shimmering was initially, so within the first 30 minutes the reason why I wanted to give it back.
But after I had taken my Camera with macro, looked at the watch over it and I'm not talking about the movement, which is a class of its own, it had flashed me.
I really wanted to keep it. As is well known, it then turned out that the watch did not run according to the manufacturer's criteria, which is why I had returned the WB.
So there are also so-called "Monday watches" at GS. - I had reported.
What bothers me a little in the report of Fratello is, where is something about when exactly the date switches?
Why is reported about the static values (-3/+5) when GS only assures the dynamic values (-1/+8)in case of warranty issues ?!
If someone writes about the precision of watches, a report about this would have been interesting.
The fact is, there is currently, to my knowledge, no possibility to test the watch on a time scale.
There is no statement after weeks of inquiry from GS about within what tolerance the date should switch.
However, I can report that it switches at least in the tenth of a second range.
But I can say one thing to all interested parties. In comparison with other manufacturers, the workmanship is fantastic, in my opinion, GS is far ahead. As the writer of Fratello already wrote, you have to look for example at the bezel, a dream.
Now would have to fit for me only the precision in the TECHNICS, then there would be for me no manufacturer of GS could reach the water.
As for the optics, is just subjective.
But I find just the several sighted the WB a dream.


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## Sparrowhawk

Overwound said:


> I can only hope the same or similar movement architecture is offered in watches a bit lower on the price scale.


Not likely.


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## bibbibart

How much available is it at current? Are the stories with queues correct?


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## GSNewbie

I guess it's a question of which country you live in.
I don't know of any queues or waiting lists here in Germany.


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## Chimpsey

GSNewbie said:


> Hello folks,
> unfortunately I had to return my White Birch aka SLGH005.
> The watch showed an unexplainable difference between the position, dial up and dial down.
> With dial down the watch ran 11-13 seconds forward in 24hours.
> This is not at all according to GS specifications and I wonder how the watch could leave the GS studio like this.
> My watchmaker master said that it could be possibly just an adjustment to the height position of the balance - hope I have expressed myself correctly there?
> It was further noted on the time balance that the watch has a high drop error, 1.6-1.8ms.
> Acceptable to my knowledge and experience would be values up to 0.4ms.
> 
> The issue of date switching has not yet been answered from Japan.
> But I will still announce.
> I am now waiting for my second White Birch - hopefully tested with more care...


Hi all, I just got my White Birch last Monday (17/5/2021). Straight away put it to testing after hearing some YouTuber and from here regarding inaccuracy.
It is indeed a lot faster than expected. It was quoted in the manual +8 to -1 seconds when "wearing it". But for mine after 72 hours of wearing, it is faster by 29 seconds.

It is my first Grand Seiko, my question is, does it has a "running-in period" and it will be more accurate later? 
It is indeed a very beautiful watch. The dial can appear as white or silver when you tilt your watch, depending on the angles.


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## Preacherman

Chimpsey said:


> Hi all, I just got my White Birch last Monday (17/5/2021). Straight away put it to testing after hearing some YouTuber and from here regarding inaccuracy.
> It is indeed a lot faster than expected. It was quoted in the manual +8 to -1 seconds when "wearing it". But for mine after 72 hours of wearing, it is faster by 29 seconds.
> 
> It is my first Grand Seiko, my question is, does it has a "running-in period" and it will be more accurate later?
> It is indeed a very beautiful watch. The dial can appear as white or silver when you tilt your watch, depending on the angles.


I'm in the same boat. Purchased mine last week and it's been running at around +10spd. Very disappointing. Not excited at all about sending it back to Japan to have it regulated.


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## Chimpsey

Preacherman said:


> I'm in the same boat. Purchased mine last week and it's been running at around +10spd. Very disappointing. Not excited at all about sending it back to Japan to have it regulated.


It is indeed disappointing. I will continue to monitor for a month and see whether there will be an improvement. Sending it to Japan for repair will mean I will be without the watch for months


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## Winzzz

Sad to hear about the movement problem hope all of you guys can get it sorted soon.my slgh 003 with the same movement is around +4 and +5 per day which i found good enough for me.


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## GSNewbie

Preacherman said:


> I'm in the same boat. Purchased mine last week and it's been running at around +10spd. Very disappointing. Not excited at all about sending it back to Japan to have it regulated.


First of all, I'm sorry to hear that the gait is not currently meeting expectations.
I would, at least with all my watches, first of all by manually winding the watch, about 30-40 revolutions, check whether the watch was actually sufficiently wound. 
If this is the case, then it is rather unlikely that it will regulate itself again according to expectations.
If a watch runs in, e.g. after longer transport, storage, etc. quite possible, then a deviation rather of 1-2 seconds per day is to be expected.
To be on the safe side, I would wind the watch manually and see how it behaves. 
Then I would go to my dealer and test the watch on the time scale. If the values there are also so bad, the watches have to go back to Japan.
To say it again clearly. Every case is different. To conclude that the movements run badly would certainly not be correct.


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## Preacherman

GSNewbie said:


> First of all, I'm sorry to hear that the gait is not currently meeting expectations.
> I would, at least with all my watches, first of all by manually winding the watch, about 30-40 revolutions, check whether the watch was actually sufficiently wound.
> If this is the case, then it is rather unlikely that it will regulate itself again according to expectations.
> If a watch runs in, e.g. after longer transport, storage, etc. quite possible, then a deviation rather of 1-2 seconds per day is to be expected.
> To be on the safe side, I would wind the watch manually and see how it behaves.
> Then I would go to my dealer and test the watch on the time scale. If the values there are also so bad, the watches have to go back to Japan.
> To say it again clearly. Every case is different. To conclude that the movements run badly would certainly not be correct.


Thank you. I have been manually winding it every morning to make sure that the mainsprings are fully wound. The rate is stable, it just needs to be adjusted. I bought it from the GS Boutique, so I'm sure they'll take care of me should I decide to send it in and have it regulated.


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## GSNewbie

With pleasure.
If you haven't had the watch for long, I would still wear the watch for 2-3 weeks and write down the figures in different layer.
Basically, no significant change is to be expected, but possibly the watch would then run at the upper end of the GS specifications.
Certainly, the caliber should show much better values.
According to my knowledge, the watch would then have to go to Japan for the reglage. Anyway, according to my information, watchmakers are not allowed to do any work on the movement here either.
Good luck


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## SLO7H

Mine is +8 seconds in 12 hours.
But I didn't manually wind it when I got it from shipping.
Manually wound it now to test. If it is +8 in 24 hours then it isn't too bad, other brands are in this area as well.
If I want a totally accurate watch, i'd buy a quartz or spring drive. But if we are talking many more seconds than 8 in 24 hours, then I would ask my AD to take a look at it.


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## GSNewbie

It is your right to see it that way and if we had just started in the age of mechanical watches, values of +8 seconds in 24 hours would be sensational😂.
I hope that the claims of GS go far beyond the 8 seconds currently measured by you.
After all, this caliber represents the peak of what is currently technically feasible at GS and represents a flagship should represent.
In addition to the performance to the gear, GS also advertises with the change in the date switching.
It's a pity if the focus here is probably less on the fact that the watch switches the date at midnight.
One more thing.
If there was no competition here between watch manufacturers in terms of precision, Rolex would not have the superlative chronometer, Omega the Metas certification and the rest from Switzerland, for those who have high precision demands on automatic calibers here, the COSC.
The argument, quartz or spring drive I find embarrassing and fails to recognize the innovative power and feasibility of mechanical calibers.
No, GS wants to play at the top, then they should also deliver. Precision, too, please.
But the problem here seems to me to be that the movements are tested and certified when they are switched off, i.e. the movement alone.
One should therefore switch to a certification in the switched-on state of the movement to exclude so also errors after assembly - just my opinion😉


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## BassJJ

Hi all. I just got the white Burch 3 days ago. Of course I am in the honeymoon phase but I could not be happier. I actually read the Fratello review the night before getting it. The dial is certainly silver, but that is what I expected and the review actually helped me confirm when seeing the watch that silver is what I wanted. I also prefer the more understated matte bracelet given how strong a statement the dial is. I think it balances the watch. Good review though, no one watch is for everyone. 

Having owned the snowflake as my daily wear for the past three years one difference I don’t see talk about it how the clasp does not stick up like on the snowflake but locks in flat with the other side of the bracket. Given I would catch the edge of the snowflake clasp at times, this change is noticeable. 

I am sorry to hear some are having accuracy issues. I would be disappointed if it was well over the listed specs. Based on a three day sample mine is running at just under +2 seconds per day.


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## SLO7H

Congratulations. I love the dial. I catch myself staring at only the dial sometimes. And I love the way it looks in different lighting and angles.

I started having doubts about my purchase.
Where I live I am able to return it and get my money back, or send it back for adjustments.

Gonna keep an eye on it the next days to see if it goes above +8.
Last night I started packing it and getting ready to give it up. But this morning when I picked it up again, I realized how happy I am with the design, so I decided to keep it for good.

I just hope it keeps the time within the specs and differentials they have written in the documentation.


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## GSNewbie

@BassJJ. Congrats to you. Some pics would also be nice😉
Have a Great time with your new watch.


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## BassJJ

GSNewbie said:


> @BassJJ. Congrats to you. Some pics would also be nice?
> Have a Great time with your new watch.


For sure! How about White Birch in a Grand Seiko sake glass.


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## websturr

The White Birch never disappoints!


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## GSNewbie

websturr said:


> The White Birch never disappoints!


I would add to the previously written sentence as follows:...if it is excellently calibrated and processed😉


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## websturr

I better buy one of those time graphers


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## whineboy

websturr said:


> View attachment 15903436
> 
> I better buy one of those time graphers


Don't think it will work with the movement, it has a different escapement.

Having a great time.
whineboy


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## websturr

I'll check in periodically with the system time server.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## GSNewbie

whineboy said:


> Don't think it will work with the movement, it has a different escapement.
> 
> Having a great time.
> whineboy


The timegrapher will do its job nearly perfect. With one exeption, the waste error is not displayed correctly.


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## singularityseven

websturr said:


> I'll check in periodically with the system time server.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


WatchTracker is a good iOS app that you can use to log timing over days/weeks/months and look at your actual accuracy during use etc. I've been using it for a year now and it's been quite useful.


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## SLO7H

I've used the watch daily now, only time I take it off is when I go to sleep or take a shower.
The daily average on the seconds differential is +6 seconds. Which is below the maximum (+8 seconds), so I am happy with that.
Calculated the average from 5 days of usage, so today it would be in total 30 more seconds than 5 days ago. So about once a week I would have to stop the clock and wait for the real time to catch up.

Have anybody else calculated the daily average? And if so, how many days did you use it before calculating?


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## Preacherman

SLO7H said:


> I've used the watch daily now, only time I take it off is when I go to sleep or take a shower.
> The daily average on the seconds differential is +6 seconds. Which is below the maximum (+8 seconds), so I am happy with that.
> Calculated the average from 5 days of usage, so today it would be in total 30 more seconds than 5 days ago. So about once a week I would have to stop the clock and wait for the real time to catch up.
> 
> Have anybody else calculated the daily average? And if so, how many days did you use it before calculating?


After 14 straight days on the wrist mine was averaging just shy of +9 seconds per day, with some days as much as +12. Just dropped it off at the GS boutique yesterday to go back to Japan for regulating. They quoted 1-3 months until it returns.


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## SLO7H

Preacherman said:


> After 14 straight days on the wrist mine was averaging just shy of +9 seconds per day, with some days as much as +12. Just dropped it off at the GS boutique yesterday to go back to Japan for regulating. They quoted 1-3 months until it returns.


Damn. I hope mine doesnt do that


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## Chimpsey

SLO7H said:


> I've used the watch daily now, only time I take it off is when I go to sleep or take a shower.
> The daily average on the seconds differential is +6 seconds. Which is below the maximum (+8 seconds), so I am happy with that.
> Calculated the average from 5 days of usage, so today it would be in total 30 more seconds than 5 days ago. So about once a week I would have to stop the clock and wait for the real time to catch up.
> 
> Have anybody else calculated the daily average? And if so, how many days did you use it before calculating?


Calculated mine for the last 7 days, wore it most of the times except sleeping and shower too. I work in air conditioning environment, temperature on average 24 deg celcius. It gains 65 seconds in 7 days. So average is +9 seconds per day and on one day it is 11 seconds. I will continue to monitor. I check my case serial number and it is below 100. I wonder whether the issue is with early batch. Later batch may be better.


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## GSNewbie

Sorry, but mine had a serial number over 100. So no issue with early batch😉.


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## JumpJ37

Have been on the waiting list for the White Birch since the beginning of March. Decided to also get on the list for the SBGA413 Spring a month ago. Based in part on some of the posts in this thread, I decided to cancel my order for the White Birch and go with the Spring. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SLO7H

Talked to the AD today about this. So since mine is 6 seconds faster then it is good, comparing it to loads of other good mechanical watch brands, and he also recommended using it for 45 days so the "oil" is properly "seated". Then take it back to the dealer to test further if it's worse.


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## GSNewbie

@JumpJ37 
I can't really relate to that. Not everyone who has bought the WB reports here. And everyone who reports here doesn't necessarily have anything positive to say. Unless you want to present your watch.
More often negative experiences are posted than positive ones.
Even though my experience was unfortunately negative after the initial euphoria, I'm still looking forward to getting a new model of the WB.
I would always want to make my own picture and not my decision based on some statements from a forum alone.
@SLO7H 
I don't think there will be any major changes to the gear.
How long have you had the watch?
With 6 seconds, the watch would also be within the GS specifications, even if these are not necessarily excellent values.


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## TraserH3

Preacherman said:


> After 14 straight days on the wrist mine was averaging just shy of +9 seconds per day, with some days as much as +12. Just dropped it off at the GS boutique yesterday to go back to Japan for regulating. They quoted 1-3 months until it returns.


What a nightmare. That's really disappointing. Sorry to hear it


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## JumpJ37

GSNewbie said:


> @JumpJ37
> I can't really relate to that. Not everyone who has bought the WB reports here. And everyone who reports here doesn't necessarily have anything positive to say. Unless you want to present your watch.
> More often negative experiences are posted than positive ones.
> Even though my experience was unfortunately negative after the initial euphoria, I'm still looking forward to getting a new model of the WB.
> I would always want to make my own picture and not my decision based on some statements from a forum alone.
> @SLO7H
> I don't think there will be any major changes to the gear.
> How long have you had the watch?
> With 6 seconds, the watch would also be within the GS specifications, even if these are not necessarily excellent values.


I was initially very impressed by the new movement and technology therein. But at Rolex and more than Omega prices, the new technology isn't consistently delivering accuracy that can compete with those brands. So at the end of the day, I decided to go for a watch I like very much that I consider to be a better value. The White Birch is a beautiful watch, but just not for me at this time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GSNewbie

As for Rolex, I agree with you about precision.
However, my experience with Omega is not only bad because of the workmanship, which is far below that of GS, the alleged precision of the watches (Aqua Terra from 2017 and Omega PO 600 with Master certification) is also not given. I had to return both watches once.
With the PO, the clock did not even hold the specifications of METAS, questionable how the clock got the certificate here.
Omega a brand that no longer comes into question for me at all.


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## JumpJ37

GSNewbie said:


> As for Rolex, I agree with you about precision.
> However, my experience with Omega is not only bad because of the workmanship, which is far below that of GS, the alleged precision of the watches (Aqua Terra from 2017 and Omega PO 600 with Master certification) is also not given. I had to return both watches once.
> With the PO, the clock did not even hold the specifications of METAS, questionable how the clock got the certificate here.
> Omega a brand that no longer comes into question for me at all.


That's interesting with respect to Omega. I've only just purchased my first METAS certified Omega, the new Speedmaster Professional, and have been quite impressed with it. Keeping time to within +1spd over the past two weeks.

With respect to workmanship, GS is so much better than both Rolex and Omega (and many other brands at lower and higher price points). I've had flaws on almost every new watch I've purchased this year, except for GS. They're amazing and the White Birch appears finished as well as any GS they make.

But, to me, the higher price of the Birch is solely due to the movement (which is finished better than other GS movements, but when I mention finishing here I refer to overall workmanship of the timepiece) and not the finishing of the overall watch because you can find pieces in the GS collection that are similarly finished for much lower price.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GSNewbie

As you can see, as individual as the taste in watches is, so different are the experiences. We seem to agree on the workmanship of the case etc. at GS.
As far as the Omega is concerned, I'm happy for you, of course.
Let's see within what tolerance the next WB runs.
As for pricing, in this area prices are set, not calculated.
The movement alone is not the sole reason for the high price in my opinion, but that's another topic.
Until then, I wish you all the best!


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## SLO7H

GSNewbie said:


> @JumpJ37
> I can't really relate to that. Not everyone who has bought the WB reports here. And everyone who reports here doesn't necessarily have anything positive to say. Unless you want to present your watch.
> More often negative experiences are posted than positive ones.
> Even though my experience was unfortunately negative after the initial euphoria, I'm still looking forward to getting a new model of the WB.
> I would always want to make my own picture and not my decision based on some statements from a forum alone.


This something to take into consideration when reading a forum like this yeah.

We are much more likely to get a higher ratio of negative than positive. Because people are more likely to come here if something is bothering them. And those that are just happy with the watch may never even come here.

I came here only to see what others report about the speed of seconds. Because my first 12 hours with the watch made me nervous. But after testing it for a longer period, I can see that mine is good enough.

So if anyone come here and sees the negative responses, it doesn't mean that the watch is poorly made. It just means that a very minor portion of watch enthusiasts reported an issue with their watch, and this would not be any different from any other mechanical watch on the market.

What is the saying? "I don't buy a mechanical watch to tell the time."
Sounds bizarre, but in a way accurate. If we want an accurate watch, we buy a quartz watch, or smart watch, or use our phones. But there is something very special about the craftsmanship behind a mechanical watch, and it is quite amazing how accurate mechanical watches are. A few seconds faster than real time during 24 hours is awesome.

I use my watch to tell the time, it is reliable enough that I can trust it. And at least it is not slower than real time, because that would be a problem, which is why the margins are always more "plus" seconds than "minus" seconds.


----------



## TraserH3

SLO7H said:


> This something to take into consideration when reading a forum like this yeah.
> 
> We are much more likely to get a higher ratio of negative than positive. Because people are more likely to come here if something is bothering them. And those that are just happy with the watch may never even come here.
> 
> I came here only to see what others report about the speed of seconds. Because my first 12 hours with the watch made me nervous. But after testing it for a longer period, I can see that mine is good enough.
> 
> So if anyone come here and sees the negative responses, it doesn't mean that the watch is poorly made. It just means that a very minor portion of watch enthusiasts reported an issue with their watch, and this would not be any different from any other mechanical watch on the market.
> 
> What is the saying? "I don't buy a mechanical watch to tell the time."
> Sounds bizarre, but in a way accurate. If we want an accurate watch, we buy a quartz watch, or smart watch, or use our phones. But there is something very special about the craftsmanship behind a mechanical watch, and it is quite amazing how accurate mechanical watches are. A few seconds faster than real time during 24 hours is awesome.
> 
> I use my watch to tell the time, it is reliable enough that I can trust it. And at least it is not slower than real time, because that would be a problem, which is why the margins are always more "plus" seconds than "minus" seconds.


I agree with this generally and I'm really glad folks are reporting their experience. The thing is you do have to take all the facts together- that is this watch has a brand new escapement, there are now a couple reports of out of spec accuracy, put two and two together it's quite possible there is in deed some teething issues with the new movement.


----------



## Chimpsey

SLO7H said:


> This something to take into consideration when reading a forum like this yeah.
> 
> We are much more likely to get a higher ratio of negative than positive. Because people are more likely to come here if something is bothering them. And those that are just happy with the watch may never even come here.
> 
> I came here only to see what others report about the speed of seconds. Because my first 12 hours with the watch made me nervous. But after testing it for a longer period, I can see that mine is good enough.
> 
> So if anyone come here and sees the negative responses, it doesn't mean that the watch is poorly made. It just means that a very minor portion of watch enthusiasts reported an issue with their watch, and this would not be any different from any other mechanical watch on the market.
> 
> What is the saying? "I don't buy a mechanical watch to tell the time."
> Sounds bizarre, but in a way accurate. If we want an accurate watch, we buy a quartz watch, or smart watch, or use our phones. But there is something very special about the craftsmanship behind a mechanical watch, and it is quite amazing how accurate mechanical watches are. A few seconds faster than real time during 24 hours is awesome.
> 
> I use my watch to tell the time, it is reliable enough that I can trust it. And at least it is not slower than real time, because that would be a problem, which is why the margins are always more "plus" seconds than "minus" seconds.


Yes, I totally agree with your point. If I don't have any issue with the accuracy, I wouldn't have dropped by to seek opinions from fellow GS owners. Before purchasing my white birch, I have already known this issue (+10 seconds per day) through a Youtube video by a Hongkong blogger. I went ahead to purchase it thinking I won't be the "lucky one".

On the other hand, I believe some GS owners may have multiple watches and may not be aware of this issue. They may have purchased a white birch and leave it inside their watch winder, without paying attention to its accuracy. Hopefully, through here it may alert some of them.

GS has a 3-year warranty, so I am not in a hurry to send back my watch for calibration.


----------



## JumpJ37

TraserH3 said:


> I agree with this generally and I'm really glad folks are reporting their experience. The thing is you do have to take all the facts together- that is this watch has a brand new escapement, there are now a couple reports of out of spec accuracy, put two and two together it's quite possible there is in deed some teething issues with the new movement.


Exactly my thoughts. There haven't been very many of these sold. My AD got two at the beginning of March and hasn't received a third in the past three months. That indicates to me there's something slowing down production. And then, despite the tendency to report bad news more than good news, there are enough reports online of inaccuracy to give me pause, especially given the low number of watches in the wild. It's a new technology, albeit very impressive, but even the best companies can run into some hiccups. I have no doubt that GS will figure it out and make sure every single White Birch is satisfactory, but for me, the wait-and-see approach is the way I'm going with this one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SLO7H

TraserH3 said:


> I agree with this generally and I'm really glad folks are reporting their experience. The thing is you do have to take all the facts together- that is this watch has a brand new escapement, there are now a couple reports of out of spec accuracy, put two and two together it's quite possible there is in deed some teething issues with the new movement.


Agree, we can't rule out anything. Everything is possible ?.
It will be interesting to see 1 year from now, so we can get a better picture, as it is quite early now.

I just want people to know that people report these things from other brands as well, including Rolex. But we need to keep an eye out for it.


----------



## blairgscott

Posted this in another thread as well - I just received my White Birch on Monday. *I can confirm... +9 seconds a day.* Quite disappointing for a highly vaunted movement. I'd rather it run fast than slow, much easier to set it back to atomic time, but all the same.


----------



## fkristan

Has had white birch for 3 weeks, its a + 10s a day. Not going to send it for service yet, for now. Its a rotational watch anyway. Dial is stunning though.


----------



## BassJJ

Seems like on this forum there are three confirmed cases of the watch running over the +8 by a second or two. I think one was sent back. My WB and I think I saw on Reddit, Facebook, and other places reports of maybe 4 that are keeping very good time. 

There is just no way to have any idea of how many have been sold or the percent of the new movement that are running over. I do hope that is just a bit of growing pains with a new movement and not an on long term issue.


----------



## SLO7H

Here is my updated time:
I reset my watch to the Atomic time
28.05.2021, 12:45:00 CEST
I haven't reset or touched the time on my watch for 22 days.
It is now in total 142 seconds more than Atomic time.

Which means, the daily average over 22 days is +6,45 seconds.
Mine is luckily still within the margins


----------



## ChronoTraveler

So what's the consensus on this one so far? I just sold my SBGK to fund another GS and I'm torn between the SLGH005 and another model.

The accuracy thing is pretty weird, I had three GSs and all of them were very accurate:


High beat kept about 1 to 2 seconds a day
Spring Drive was gaining about a second every three days or so
The last one, SBGK, was gaining one second ever two days if fully wound every day


----------



## SLO7H

ChronoTraveler said:


> So what's the consensus on this one so far? I just sold my SBGK to fund another GS and I'm torn between the SLGH005 and another model.
> 
> The accuracy thing is pretty weird, I had three GSs and all of them were very accurate:
> 
> 
> High beat kept about 1 to 2 seconds a day
> Spring Drive was gaining about a second every three days or so
> The last one, SBGK, was gaining one second ever two days if fully wound every day


Depends on the watch. If you check the manual of the watches you have previously owned, you can see the seconds margins they have set there, and it will always be a chance you get something with a higher of lower "speed".

Then you could compare it to this one. As we have kinda discussed, people are less likely to come here if their own watch is 100% perfect, or if it has 1-2 +seconds.

So it is impossible for us to see the big picture here.


----------



## singularityseven

ChronoTraveler said:


> So what's the consensus on this one so far?


Buy it if you won't be too bothered by it potentially drifting a bit out of their recommended range. Or if you are prepared to send it back to be re-regulated.


----------



## BassJJ

ChronoTraveler said:


> So what's the consensus on this one so far? I just sold my SBGK to fund another GS and I'm torn between the SLGH005 and another model.
> 
> The accuracy thing is pretty weird, I had three GSs and all of them were very accurate:
> 
> 
> High beat kept about 1 to 2 seconds a day
> Spring Drive was gaining about a second every three days or so
> The last one, SBGK, was gaining one second ever two days if fully wound every day


Having had the watch a month I am still very honeymooning and loving it. The case shape angles I am really drown toward (over the rounder snowflake for example), the all brushed bracelet feels sporty to me and is very comfortable, I really dig the dial (but I like most GS dials), and the movement is great to look at. If I was very concerned about accuracy I might wait a number of months and see if others report their experience, but overall all the details of the watch just fit together wonderfully in my view.


----------



## singularityseven

BassJJ said:


> Having had the watch a month I am still very honeymooning and loving it. The case shape angles I am really drown toward (over the rounder snowflake for example), the all brushed bracelet feels sporty to me and is very comfortable, I really dig the dial (but I like most GS dials), and the movement is great to look at. If I was very concerned about accuracy I might wait a number of months and see if others report their experience, but overall all the details of the watch just fit together wonderfully in my view.


Congrats! Glad to hear you're enjoying yours as the WB continues to be on top of my list too. Please share more pics. We don't have nearly enough pics in this thread!


----------



## BassJJ

singularityseven said:


> Congrats! Glad to hear you're enjoying yours as the WB continues to be on top of my list too. Please share more pics. We don't have nearly enough pics in this thread!


For sure. The dial can look different depending on the light. It can be a bit more subtle or very "in your face." Not sure I am good enough at photography to capture it, but here are two photo's one by a window for natural light and one under desk light.


----------



## gumpy-au

I have a few watches running faster than spec. These include a Rolex and Omega, there's no chance I'd send an otherwise perfect watch back for +8 or something like that. Each time I've had a watch touched by someone, including RSC, the watches comeback with new marks.


----------



## me.996

Congrats to members on their WB. Am considering ordering a WB or SLGH003. That is why am reading this forum.
I read about the GS breakthrough achievements with the new movement. I am like many members here... measuring their watches against atomic time. The reported accuracy of this new movement is not best. Wonder if this is a compromise of hi-beat movement. 
I have GS watches with SpringDrive and quartz movements. Accuracy is outstanding and within claimed specs. I also have Rolex and Tudor with good accuracy but no where near GS SD and GS quartz. Rolex is better than Tudor.


----------



## ChronoTraveler

I just bought one - thanks everyone for your input and great pictures. Next weeks are gonna be very long.

PS: if the watch is not what you guys said, I'm sending dick pics to your inboxes. No joke, I sold my SBGK005 to buy that watch!


----------



## whineboy

me.996 said:


> The reported accuracy of this new movement is not best. Wonder if this is a compromise of hi-beat movement.


I am not sure if you are referring to the new high beat movement or high beat movements generally. My experience is that they generally are quite accurate, my GS SBGJ001 ran +1 to +2 daily for several years (it's due for a service so no longer so accurate). My Lord Marvel runs +4 to +7 a day (and is 50 years young). I have also been reading about the new movement's teething pains.

Having a great time&#8230;.


----------



## me.996

+1 to +2 per day is very good!


----------



## websturr




----------



## websturr

Looks like my white birch is running +4spd lying on the opposite side of the crown.


----------



## me.996

websturr said:


> Looks like my white birch is running +4spd lying on the opposite side of the crown.


That is within specs. Very nice!


----------



## JumpJ37

ChronoTraveler said:


> I just bought one - thanks everyone for your input and great pictures. Next weeks are gonna be very long.
> 
> PS: if the watch is not what you guys said, I'm sending dick pics to your inboxes. No joke, I sold my SBGK005 to buy that watch!


That's funny! I also sold my SBGK005 for the Birch. But I ultimately decided to skip the Birch and just bought a great example of the SBGK005. I may get the Burch eventually, but glad to have the 005 back in the box.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wsrobert

My Birch arrived last week. And I must say, I'm really enjoying this piece. My second GS (skyflake) and I think this one is a keeper. Snagged a navy perlon that I might keep it on during the summer months.


----------



## ChronoTraveler

JumpJ37 said:


> That's funny! I also sold my SBGK005 for the Birch. But I ultimately decided to skip the Birch and just bought a great example of the SBGK005. I may get the Burch eventually, but glad to have the 005 back in the box.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I love the SBGK005 too: accurate, great finish, balanced and clean style and, by far, the best case on any GS I've seen. It just wears nice and thin.

If I could, I would keep the SBGK005 and buy the WB, but my funds are too limited for me to have two watches of the same brand right now. Ultimately, the new movement and water resistance (100 > 50) sold me to the WB.

(Heck, thinking about it, you could probably have a diverse collection with only Grand Seikos: elegance line for dress, divers for, duh, diving and a Spring Drive for casual watch.)


----------



## FREG

short question, is it lumed, if yes could som-one post a lume shot


----------



## ChronoTraveler

FREG said:


> short question, is it lumed, if yes could som-one post a lume shot


No lume. The middle part of the hour hand does look like lume, but it's not.


----------



## FREG

ChronoTraveler said:


> No lume. The middle part of the hour hand does look like lume, but it's not.


what is it?


----------



## ChronoTraveler

FREG said:


> what is it?


Just some kind of texture. Probably to make the hour and minute hands much more different from each other (thus, easier to tell the time).

I wish there was lume.


----------



## wsrobert

FREG said:


> short question, is it lumed, if yes could som-one post a lume shot


No lume. But the way it reflects light on the hour markers and hands means that you only need a tiny bit of ambient light or otherwise to see the time. It's actually pretty incredible.


----------



## Raindrops

Just received my White Birch recently. Does anyone know where to locate the serial number for the watch?


----------



## Chimpsey

Raindrops said:


> Just received my White Birch recently. Does anyone know where to locate the serial number for the watch?


At the back, lower part of the exhibition case back..

Sent from my CPH1919 using Tapatalk


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## Raindrops

Chimpsey said:


> At the back, lower part of the exhibition case back..
> 
> Sent from my CPH1919 using Tapatalk


Thanks. 😀 Will search for it.


----------



## JumpJ37

ChronoTraveler said:


> I love the SBGK005 too: accurate, great finish, balanced and clean style and, by far, the best case on any GS I've seen. It just wears nice and thin.
> 
> If I could, I would keep the SBGK005 and buy the WB, but my funds are too limited for me to have two watches of the same brand right now. Ultimately, the new movement and water resistance (100 > 50) sold me to the WB.
> 
> (Heck, thinking about it, you could probably have a diverse collection with only Grand Seikos: elegance line for dress, divers for, duh, diving and a Spring Drive for casual watch.)


I actually have a perfect three watch GS collection (within my greater collection), like you described. The SBGK005 from Elegance for dress, the SBGA413 from Heritage for everyday, and the SBGE257 from Sport for travel and swimming.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RedSilver

Anyone else kinda feel like you got edged out of your favorite brand? Don't get me wrong, im happy to see them improving their designs and punching above their weight. Just don't think i can really afford afford that kind of white birch quality.


----------



## RedSilver

As in I can happily buy a $4k-5k watch but $9k is a different story. It would have to be a serious grail for me. The birch is nice... Maybe in the future... Good thing its not a limited edition.


----------



## singularityseven

Grand Seiko is definitely heading for the stratosphere with their pricing. But at least there was a significant upgrade going to the White Birch - the 9SA5 is a pretty impressive piece of kit, the series 9 case is amazing and they even upgraded the bracelet. The White Birch did feel like a significant step up from the other $6300 watches.

But some of their other price increases have made little to no sense, like the new quartz 9F GMTs. $4550 for the SBGN019/021 compared to $3200 for the SBGN005/003. So yeah, GS is definitely pricing upwards, and as a result pricing out a fraction of their potential customer base.


----------



## noregrets

singularityseven said:


> Grand Seiko is definitely heading for the stratosphere with their pricing. But at least there was a significant upgrade going to the White Birch - the 9SA5 is a pretty impressive piece of kit, the series 9 case is amazing and they even upgraded the bracelet. The White Birch did feel like a significant step up from the other $6300 watches.
> 
> But some of their other price increases have made little to no sense, like the new quartz 9F GMTs. $4550 for the SBGN019/021 compared to $3200 for the SBGN005/003. So yeah, GS is definitely pricing upwards, and as a result pricing out a fraction of their potential customer base.


Very well put. I am quite intrigued by the White Birch and may one day pick it up, but the price tag is putting me off. Unless the used prices drop quite a bit, they may have priced me out. To me it's just not a 9K or even an 8K watch.


----------



## singularityseven

SwissWatchGang is easily one of my favorite watch channels on YouTube, and they just did a video on the White Birch:






Easily some of the best footage I've seen of this watch so far.


----------



## singularityseven

An excellent article breaking down the 9SA5 movement from WatchTime: Grand Seiko's New Super Hero: Testing the Caliber 9SA5 60th Anniversary Limited Edition


----------



## RedSilver

Great article!


----------



## Brey17




----------



## singularityseven

Brey17 said:


> View attachment 16037594


Beautiful pairing!


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Gonna finally have mine on hands this week - already have a bunch of straps to pair the WB with.

I'll share the results with you guys!


----------



## ChronoTraveler

At last:




























Initial impressions:


Best GS movement ever. This is just a whole different level for the brand. I always loved the movement of my BP Bathyscaphe, and this one is very close to that (the only difference being that BP anglage is way larger).
Dimensions are awesome. Watch wears way thinner than my previous High Beat and the Snowflake.
Polishing is on point. I never really paid attention to the different techniques, but I loved the contrast on this one.
Loved the box-crystal.
I thought the 22mm strap would bother me, but it feels nice on the wrist. The watch wears compact and looks perfect to me, with plenty of room/wrist left (although I'm pretty sure it will look a tad bigger on pictures).
It's easy to tell the time thanks to the strip on the hour hand and the polishing of the indexes.
Loved how heavy it is. It just feels solid on the wrist.
The only thing that I'm not entirely sold yet is the brightness of the dial under sunlight - I would have preferred a matte dial, but I was already aware of this. I hope I can bond with this one.

I'll try some straps later today and share the results.


----------



## Raindrops

For those who own the White Birch, how is the accuracy? Mine has been running 10-14 sec fast per day so it is definitely out of specs. Not sure how they are going to fix this ‘fastness’ problem if I request to send it in? Also a bit concerned with potential scratches and dings if I were to send it in and it doesn’t get sent to Japan for servicing due to some horror stories I have come across about GS servicing outside of Japan. Anyone has any idea what the process is? I am from Singapore by the way. And I love this watch too! Thanks! 😀


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Suede navy blue strap. I liked this combo, it makes the watch less metalic and gives a nice contrast to the dial (not to mention the strap matches the seconds hand).


----------



## Jale

ChronoTraveler said:


> At last:
> 
> View attachment 16080586
> 
> 
> View attachment 16080587
> 
> 
> View attachment 16080588
> 
> 
> Initial impressions:
> 
> 
> Best GS movement ever. This is just a whole different level for the brand. I always loved the movement of my BP Bathyscaphe, and this one is very close to that (the only difference being that BP anglage is way larger).
> Dimensions are awesome. Watch wears way thinner than my previous High Beat and the Snowflake.
> Polishing is on point. I never really paid attention to the different techniques, but I loved the contrast on this one.
> Loved the box-crystal.
> I thought the 22mm strap would bother me, but it feels nice on the wrist. The watch wears compact and looks perfect to me, with plenty of room/wrist left (although I'm pretty sure it will look a tad bigger on pictures).
> It's easy to tell the time thanks to the strip on the hour hand and the polishing of the indexes.
> Loved how heavy it is. It just feels solid on the wrist.
> The only thing that I'm not entirely sold yet is the brightness of the dial under sunlight - I would have preferred a matte dial, but I was already aware of this. I hope I can bond with this one.
> 
> I'll try some straps later today and share the results.


That is a damn good looking watch

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brianinCA

Brey17 said:


> View attachment 16037594


I think this combo may be the best I've seen yet! What make/model is that strap?


----------



## Digmac

Raindrops said:


> For those who own the White Birch, how is the accuracy? Mine has been running 10-14 sec fast per day so it is definitely out of specs. Not sure how they are going to fix this 'fastness' problem if I request to send it in? Also a bit concerned with potential scratches and dings if I were to send it in and it doesn't get sent to Japan for servicing due to some horror stories I have come across about GS servicing outside of Japan. Anyone has any idea what the process is? I am from Singapore by the way. And I love this watch too! Thanks! ?


I don't own one, however yours isn't the only case of this happening. I was reading a post in a Grand Seiko group talking about the accuracy issues of the White Birch, and multiple owners were sending theirs in to get it corrected under warranty. Some were experiencing even worse accuracy than your figures. It's a bit of an issue.


----------



## Brey17

brianinCA said:


> I think this combo may be the best I've seen yet! What make/model is that strap?


This is an @aaronpim Aaron Bespoke/Combat Straps - Grey Suede Alacantra


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Raindrops said:


> For those who own the White Birch, how is the accuracy? Mine has been running 10-14 sec fast per day so it is definitely out of specs. Not sure how they are going to fix this 'fastness' problem if I request to send it in? Also a bit concerned with potential scratches and dings if I were to send it in and it doesn't get sent to Japan for servicing due to some horror stories I have come across about GS servicing outside of Japan. Anyone has any idea what the process is? I am from Singapore by the way. And I love this watch too! Thanks! ?


Checked mine in the last 24 hours: +5 seconds.

Trying a new strap today. This time, a taupe one:


----------



## westcoastco

ChronoTraveler said:


> Best GS movement ever. This is just a whole different level for the brand. I always loved the movement of my BP Bathyscaphe, and this one is very close to that (the only difference being that BP anglage is way larger).


Is the movement finishing purely machine-done like on modern Omegas? I have a BP bathyscaphe, and based on photos online it doesn't look (to my eyes) that this GS movement is hand-finished or has round-polished anglage. If you can provide more detail that would be great. It's a beautiful looking movement regardless.


----------



## ChronoTraveler

westcoastco said:


> Is the movement finishing purely machine-done like on modern Omegas? I have a BP bathyscaphe, and based on photos online it doesn't look (to my eyes) that this GS movement is hand-finished or has round-polished anglage. If you can provide more detail that would be great. It's a beautiful looking movement regardless.


Honestly, I don't think the GS movement is completely hand-finished, but it reminds me the BP for a couple things:


The size of the jewels. They're huge, just like in the BP.
The style of the bridges. GS has a different kind of finishing (they have a name for that, I think it's based on a river or Mount) that is equally good.
The anglage, like I mentioned, is thinner on the GS.
Depth and detail of inscriptions on the rotor (although BP's is on a different level as it's made of gold).
The pattern on the barrels.
And the general finishing in the other parts.

I took some pictures with a good camera. You can zoom in and compare for yourself, maybe I'm just seeing things:









Details on the bridges; size of jewels; general architecture;



















Anglage details on the left (light sort of ruined the right part).


----------



## singularityseven

ChronoTraveler said:


> Checked mine in the last 24 hours: +5 seconds.
> 
> Trying a new strap today. This time, a taupe one:
> 
> View attachment 16082908


LOVE this strap pairing!


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Are you tired already of seeing this watch? I hope you aren't.

Captured some details on the dial, hands and indexes:


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Very cool in every way. Just wish the dial was less silver with occasional white. Take the Snowflake dial's color of white with occasional subtle silver, give it the White Birch texture, and I'd call it perfect. For now I'll just wait until they put another dial on the Series 9 design and 9SA5 movement.

Maybe bring back the brown mosaic of the SBGR311.

Or the blue whirlpool mosaic of the SBGH267.

Or the red wood planks of SBGH269.

Or the cherry blossoms of SBGA413.

Seriously, these guys know how to make dials. This White Birch dial just doesn't make my list.



Digmac said:


> I don't own one, however yours isn't the only case of this happening. I was reading a post in a Grand Seiko group talking about the accuracy issues of the White Birch, and multiple owners were sending theirs in to get it corrected under warranty. Some were experiencing even worse accuracy than your figures. It's a bit of an issue.


What Grand Seiko group were you reading? I'm trying to follow any feedback on the accuracy of the 9SA5. Aside, they need an official GS9 Club forum.


----------



## JumpJ37

Just received my White Birch today! Was looking for a special watch for my 40th birthday and originally bought the SBGA231, but wanted something even more special. The White Birch definitely fit the bill! It's absolutely gorgeous in person. The dial is, of course, stunning but there are some other details that flew under the radar until I saw it in the metal. First, the brushed portion of the bezel plays with the light and pops way more than I expected. Second, the bracelet width, thickness, and solid construction make for a very comfortable and satisfying wrist presence. I'm super happy with it!

I purchased it from the new GS online boutique and the experience was top notch the entire way. Highly recommend using it, especially if you're not near a GS AD.

I've noticed some accuracy issues reported here in the past and that's one of the reasons I held out until now to pick up a Birch. So far, it's running a few seconds fast in the last 5 hours, which extrapolates into way outside the specs. But I'm going to give it plenty of time to settle down and also see how it averages out with a month or so of wear. My Rolex Pepsi was running similarly fast when I got it and after a month it was running perfectly within spec so I'm hoping that'll be the case with this beauty.



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JumpJ37

After four days of wear, my White Birch is running +9-10spd, just outside of the specs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cowboy Bebop

JumpJ37 said:


> After four days of wear, my White Birch is running +9-10spd, just outside of the specs.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wasn't sure if you meant it gain roughly 38-40 seconds in 4 days if so that is way out of spec...but if you meant in 4 days it gain 9 to 10 seconds that would round about 2.5 seconds per day and so would it be within spec in this case...

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


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## JumpJ37

Cowboy Bebop said:


> Wasn't sure if you meant it gain roughly 38-40 seconds in 4 days if so that is way out of spec...but if you meant in 4 days it gain 9 to 10 seconds that would round about 2.5 seconds per day and so would it be within spec in this case...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


It gained about 40 seconds in 4 days.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rain_City

Has anyone replaced the original bracelet with something that has a bit more taper? Suede and leather look nice, but wondering if there are more stainless options


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Back to steel.

This watch is quite heavy - in fact, it's heavier than the new Submariners, I just confirmed today. While it may not please everyone, I totally love how solid it feels on the wrist.


----------



## Cowboy Bebop

JumpJ37 said:


> It gained about 40 seconds in 4 days.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ah that may need to go back.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Has anybody with this 9SA5 movement seen it level out after a month or two of running? Someone prior said they had a Rolex out of spec but normalize after a while. If not, I'm hesitant to be an early adopter of this new caliber if there are kinks to work out.


----------



## Rain_City

I haven't heard too many people raise concerns really. But the long time it would take to address if you were one of the rare ones would be annoying


----------



## Goyo924

Any new owners reporting accuracy issues? Thinking of pulling the trigger on one but I can definitely wait it out if this is still an issue.


----------



## PJJa

For what it's worth, I've had this watch since March, and it's been between +3/+4 spd consistently for me


----------



## JumpJ37

Goyo924 said:


> Any new owners reporting accuracy issues? Thinking of pulling the trigger on one but I can definitely wait it out if this is still an issue.


Got mine at the end of August and it's been consistently +10spd. Was hoping it would slow down but it hasn't. Been running since the day I got it and steady at +10. I love the watch too much to send it away for service for so long, so I'll just live with it running a bit faster than the specs. Worst case scenario is I show up a few minutes early for a meeting, haha.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ChronoTraveler

SLGH005 has been nominated in GPHG 2021, Men's Watches category:


















Grand Prix d’Horlogerie de Genève


#gphg14133 Discover The Pre-selected Watches 14133




www.gphg.org


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Quick update about availability and wait lists.

The wife and I wanted to see the White Birch in the metal, primarily to verify the Series 9 case fit her well. We called around and nobody had it in stock -- even one of the NYC boutiques said he could probably get one in about a month while non-corporate dealers would be several months. Then I called Reed's Jewelers in Huntsville, AL. They said they have _one _and we had better act fast. Drove a couple hours to check it out. They had a fantastic selection --at least 30 pieces including the 2019 Winter and Autumn, an Omiwatari, several GMTs and divers, a couple champagne dials. This was our first time seeing any GS in person and it was stunning.

The White Birch was baller. Didn't get to see in daylight but it didn't have any aluminum sheen as I was afraid. Just silver and gorgeous. More importantly for us, it confirmed the Series 9 case fit her and the SLGA007 we have reserved will make a great anniversary present.

But how did they have this inventory? Turns out they had just become an authorized dealer, and only at this location, just one week ago. Told us about GS being there for training, new display signage and everything. They had been told they were getting one White Birch but no guarantees that ANY more would come. Now I'm reading between the lines: this is a Mastershop model, i.e. only dealers moving significant inventory get it. So they were given one as a starter and must earn any more.

Also just spoke to Chris at Little Treasury Jewelers in MD, who secured a SLGA007 for me. He confided they had only received three White Birches total and had quite a wait list. And they're the second-largest AD in the nation, so anyone else you talk to is likely receiving them even slower. Apparently this new, sophisticated 9SA5 movement is taking much longer than typical to manufacture.

So don't hesitate to get one when you can. Reed's had one as of Monday and they'll mail it. Call the location at 315 The Bridge St Suite 107, Huntsville, AL. They'll be a good place to ask about any other models, too.


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Wearing it today. I dig how the dial texture changes according to the light - from much more metalic to silky.


----------



## Goyo924

While using the online concierge to look at and discuss some other pieces I was interested in, the GS boutique rep confirmed to me that they actually had a White Birch in stock. Humorously enough, it wasn't even on display in the boutique but rather locked up inside a hidden cabinet. The rep mentioned to me that they only pull it out for customers who know about the watch in order to give the other watches a chance. I slept on it for a few days and pulled the trigger since it was still available.

This watch really is a completely different beast in person. The dynamic dial, Series 9 case, and beautifully finished movement are all next level. The dial is very silvery but also deeply textured. It would probably look white or gray to most people at a distance whereas you really need to get up close and personal to admire the deep texture. This is something I love about the design and how it does not scream from across the room. The same goes for the case finishing which has a welcomed amount of hairline finish and just the right amount of zaratsu polishing to compliment the sporty yet understated looks. The bracelet does feel a little wide and I'm not yet entirely sold on it. I have a feeling the watch will live on a leather strap soon. Additionally, the boutique threw in a blue calfskin leather strap they had just received which was made specifically for the White Birch (they also threw in a t-shirt and loupe). The dial is so good that I forget to
admire the incredible new hi-beat movement. It's still early but it seems to be averaging somewhere between +4.5 to 6 seconds a day which is quite a relief considering some of the stories going around about accuracy. Anyway here are a few pics!


----------



## Rain_City

Goyo924 said:


> While using the online concierge to look at and discuss some other pieces I was interested in, the GS boutique rep confirmed to me that they actually had a White Birch in stock. Humorously enough, it wasn't even on display in the boutique but rather locked up inside a hidden cabinet. The rep mentioned to me that they only pull it out for customers who know about the watch in order to give the other watches a chance. I slept on it for a few days and pulled the trigger since it was still available.
> 
> This watch really is a completely different beast in person. The dynamic dial, Series 9 case, and beautifully finished movement are all next level. The dial is very silvery but also deeply textured. It would probably look white or gray to most people at a distance whereas you really need to get up close and personal to admire the deep texture. This is something I love about the design and how it does not scream from across the room. The same goes for the case finishing which has a welcomed amount of hairline finish and just the right amount of zaratsu polishing to compliment the sporty yet understated looks. The bracelet does feel a little wide and I'm not yet entirely sold on it. I have a feeling the watch will live on a leather strap soon. Additionally, the boutique threw in a blue calfskin leather strap they had just received which was made specifically for the White Birch (they also threw in a t-shirt and loupe). The dial is so good that I forget to
> admire the incredible new hi-beat movement. It's still early but it seems to be averaging somewhere between +4.5 to 6 seconds a day which is quite a relief considering some of the stories going around about accuracy. Anyway here are a few pics!


Do you have a picture of the strap?


----------



## JumpJ37

Goyo924 said:


> While using the online concierge to look at and discuss some other pieces I was interested in, the GS boutique rep confirmed to me that they actually had a White Birch in stock. Humorously enough, it wasn't even on display in the boutique but rather locked up inside a hidden cabinet. The rep mentioned to me that they only pull it out for customers who know about the watch in order to give the other watches a chance. I slept on it for a few days and pulled the trigger since it was still available.
> 
> This watch really is a completely different beast in person. The dynamic dial, Series 9 case, and beautifully finished movement are all next level. The dial is very silvery but also deeply textured. It would probably look white or gray to most people at a distance whereas you really need to get up close and personal to admire the deep texture. This is something I love about the design and how it does not scream from across the room. The same goes for the case finishing which has a welcomed amount of hairline finish and just the right amount of zaratsu polishing to compliment the sporty yet understated looks. The bracelet does feel a little wide and I'm not yet entirely sold on it. I have a feeling the watch will live on a leather strap soon. Additionally, the boutique threw in a blue calfskin leather strap they had just received which was made specifically for the White Birch (they also threw in a t-shirt and loupe). The dial is so good that I forget to
> admire the incredible new hi-beat movement. It's still early but it seems to be averaging somewhere between +4.5 to 6 seconds a day which is quite a relief considering some of the stories going around about accuracy. Anyway here are a few pics!


Beautiful photos and congrats! I was lucky enough to get mine from the online boutique as well, just in time for my 40th birthday. I'm jealous you got a strap and loupe, though!

I've been wearing my Birch for most of this month and it's the best watch I've owned. Amazing balance on wrist and it's perfectly proportioned for me. It's so good I'm consolidating my collection and going with the Birch as my daily watch and the SBGY002 as a dress watch.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## whineboy

The Birch is beautiful and the movement revolutionary. But I think the movement is still in its infancy and is experiencing teething pains regarding accuracy. 

Since my 9S86 high beat ran +1 to +2 a day out of the box (and now runs -2 to +1 after 4 years), I consider the accuracy reported for the 9SA5 to be poor in comparison. 

I'm sure that eventually Grand Seiko will resolve the problem, but reading about the unimpressive accuracy people are getting compared to the 9S85/86 high beats confirms my policy of being a late adopter of new technologies.


----------



## Rain_City

I appreciate accuracy, but always found the look and feel of a watch to be a much more important factor in my overall enjoyment. A few seconds here and there is not going to impact the wearing experience for me. Of course, if something is like a couple minutes off every day, that would be annoying. But if I need to adjust the time by a minute or so every couple weeks, I can live with that. Especially if I am rotating a couple pieces and have to wind them up to start the day anyways


----------



## whineboy

Rain_City said:


> I appreciate accuracy, but always found the look and feel of a watch to be a much more important factor in my overall enjoyment. A few seconds here and there is not going to impact the wearing experience for me. Of course, if something is like a couple minutes off every day, that would be annoying. But if I need to adjust the time by a minute or so every couple weeks, I can live with that. Especially if I am rotating a couple pieces and have to wind them up to start the day anyways


I agree with everything you say - you are the voice of reason. As someone who aspires to focus less on accuracy and more on design and craftsmanship, I aspire to think like you do.
But to me, for GS to promote their new 9SA5 as the latest and greatest, shouldn't it at least outperform the old 9S85/86? So far it doesn't seem to be coming close.


----------



## Rain_City

Haha, to be fair, I don't even aspire to think like me!  
I agree, I would expect a new movement to improve upon the previous design. I also agree that customers should hold companies accountable for performance, especially given the price associated with the product. So really, I as a consumer, am benefiting from your demands for perfection


----------



## JumpJ37

Rain_City said:


> Haha, to be fair, I don't even aspire to think like me!
> I agree, I would expect a new movement to improve upon the previous design. I also agree that customers should hold companies accountable for performance, especially given the price associated with the product. So really, I as a consumer, am benefiting from your demands for perfection


I generally care quite a deal about accuracy, but with the Birch (mine runs +10spd) I’ve found that you are right about it not mattering so much. It’s not often that I need the exact time, and my watch it pretty close. And it’s easy to change a minute or two periodically if it gets too fast. I really appreciate the design and craftsmanship more than the accuracy. 

That being said, I also agree that this new movement should perform better than it’s predecessor and competition. I’m actually confident that the new movement is very good and can keep excellent time. But for some strange reason, some of them are regulated to be too fast. I just don’t want to send my watch to Japan for many months right now. Maybe when it needs a service they’ll be able to regulate for me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ndrs63

Brey17 said:


> View attachment 16037594


I don’t like straps in general, but this one looks really good


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Goyo924

Rain_City said:


> Do you have a picture of the strap?


No picture at the moment. I just tried to fit the strap to the watch and realized they sent me a 21 mm strap width instead of 22 mm. I’ll reach out to the boutique and see if they really have the right size strap available.


----------



## Rain_City

Goyo924 said:


> No picture at the moment. I just tried to fit the strap to the watch and realized they sent me a 21 mm strap width instead of 22 mm. I’ll reach out to the boutique and see if they really have the right size strap available.


Interesting. I haven't seen a strap offered by a boutique that is "for" the WB. Hope you love it!


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## bigie35

Respectfully, if Rolex can make their entry Oyster Perpetual run at +2/-2 a day, then Grand Seiko should absolutely catch-up and make this right. What's the point of an entirely redesigned movement if it's going to run just like my 4R36?


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## ndrs63

bigie35 said:


> Respectfully, if Rolex can make their entry Oyster Perpetual run at +2/-2 a day, then Grand Seiko should absolutely catch-up and make this right. What's the point of an entirely redesigned movement if it's going to run just like my 4R36?


I think Rolex is unique when it comes to precision. I would be curious how many others can achieve such accuracy. Would love to buy a white birch at some point but I might wait until the movement issues are sorted out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven

ndrs63 said:


> I think Rolex is unique when it comes to precision. I would be curious how many others can achieve such accuracy. Would love to buy a white birch at some point but I might wait until the movement issues are sorted out
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Most chronometer certified movements will comfortably run -4 to +6 spd. Not as tightly bound as Rolex's Superlative Chronometer spec, but most certainly better than the reports of 9SA5 performance. And these movements can be found on $1000 watches and upwards.


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## Goyo924

As an update on the 9SA5 accuracy, for the first few days my SLGH005 was gaining about 6 seconds a day at the most. I’ve noticed over the last three days that the average gain is now at 2 seconds per day. I’ve never had a movement “settle in” but the 9SA5 seems to be doing that for me now. Personally, as long as a movement is running within specs I don’t have much of a problem with how accurate it is.


----------



## Rain_City

I love the way this thing looks at sunset!


----------



## Kakemonster

I tried the white birch on today. I wrote it off initially due to the wide bracelet and the dial pattern being too pronounced. However in person this watch is just gorgeous. The silver color of the dial in makes it very versatile and sporty, and the bracelet balances off the watch really well. The thinner case also makes a huge difference. It is very disappointing to hear all the issues with the time-keeping though. For this price I would at least expect it to perform as well as their more regular high-beats. Seems like a rather wide spread issue.


----------



## Rain_City

Goyo924 said:


> No picture at the moment. I just tried to fit the strap to the watch and realized they sent me a 21 mm strap width instead of 22 mm. I’ll reach out to the boutique and see if they really have the right size strap available.


You ever get the right fit?


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Wife concluded she digs the White Birch bigtime. So now I'm #7 on a wait list, likely a year's delay unless GS can step up production. Hope they sort out any other potential kinks noted above before then.

Man, marketing dept is doing their jobs with a promo like this. If only they tried as hard at their renderings!


----------



## Rain_City

Chrono Brewer said:


> Wife concluded she digs the White Birch bigtime. So now I'm #7 on a wait list, likely a year's delay unless GS can step up production. Hope they sort out any other potential kinks noted above before then.
> 
> Man, marketing dept is doing their jobs with a promo like this. If only they tried as hard at their renderings!


There are some good deals to be had on the secondary market as well if you are not set on an AD


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## Chrono Brewer

Rain_City said:


> There are some good deals to be had on the secondary market as well if you are not set on an AD


Fortunately that deposit I put down on the SLGH005 can be rolled into my balance for the upcoming SLGA007 in first quarter 2022. I might do just that in the end.


----------



## Rain_City

Chrono Brewer said:


> Fortunately that deposit I put down on the SLGH005 can be rolled into my balance for the upcoming SLGA007 in first quarter 2022. I might do just that in the end.


Haha, I originally thought the same thing, but now I am pretty sure I will end up with both. The Birch is just so nice on the wrist


----------



## Chrono Brewer

Rain_City said:


> Haha, I originally thought the same thing, but now I am pretty sure I will end up with both. The Birch is just so nice on the wrist


And these two have the same case/bracelet! Should feel identically good on the wrist. Got to try a White Birch on but wasn't sure at the time, so this bought me time to consider or change my mind. The other possibility is the SLGA011 "Green Oak" also with the same case.

The biggest question now is whether I'm crazy enough to get all three as a grand anniversary celebration, the first luxury purchase since my wife's engagement ring. A prospect which I'm afraid to think about too long as it sounds nicer every time I consider it. Just keep on rationalizing...


----------



## ndrs63

Chrono Brewer said:


> Wife concluded she digs the White Birch bigtime. So now I'm #7 on a wait list, likely a year's delay unless GS can step up production. Hope they sort out any other potential kinks noted above before then.
> 
> Man, marketing dept is doing their jobs with a promo like this. If only they tried as hard at their renderings!


1 year wait for the WB?? Seriously?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chrono Brewer

ndrs63 said:


> 1 year wait for the WB?? Seriously?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He said they've had three total since it was announced in February and now I'm #7 on the waiting list. That makes 10-14 months If it continues at this rate. He also said some part of the 9SA5 was giving GS difficulty to manufacture, so they might also increase production if they can resolve that issue.


----------



## singularityseven

Chrono Brewer said:


> Wife concluded she digs the White Birch bigtime. So now I'm #7 on a wait list, likely a year's delay unless GS can step up production. Hope they sort out any other potential kinks noted above before then.
> 
> Man, marketing dept is doing their jobs with a promo like this. If only they tried as hard at their renderings!


Unless you are looking to build a history with that particular AD, I highly recommend not waiting a year for it. There are a few ADs that have them in stock at this moment, as well as a few on the secondary market at a small discount. I was sold a similar story when purchasing my SBGA415 and I regret waiting 5 months for a watch that was available elsewhere.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

singularityseven said:


> Unless you are looking to build a history with that particular AD, I highly recommend not waiting a year for it. There are a few ADs that have them in stock at this moment, as well as a few on the secondary market at a small discount. I was sold a similar story when purchasing my SBGA415 and I regret waiting 5 months for a watch that was available elsewhere.


Probably would If I had the funds mobilized. Though I am trying to get some history with this dealer and am still on the fence about the White Birch, so the delay is strategic while I wait for more info on the SLGA011 and await my reserved SLGA007.

Never before thought so casually about $25k+ in discretionary spending. I must need a psych eval.


----------



## xReDeViLx

my dealer (here in singapore) has offered me this model, even though i'm not interested.
Should i get it anyway and pass it on to someone who wants it?


----------



## Kakemonster

How does you owners out there find the legibility of this watch? I've heard several reviewers state it is not legible at a glance? Does the dial blend too much with the indices?


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Kakemonster said:


> How does you owners out there find the legibility of this watch? I've heard several reviewers state it is not legible at a glance? Does the dial blend too much with the indices?


It's actually quite good - I was concerned about this too before seeing the watch in metal, but the different polishing and facets of the hands ensure you can always read time easily. Seconds hand is blue, so natural contrast; minutes hand reflects light in different ways to the format; and hour hand has a matte strip in the middle of it.

I wish there was lume, though.


----------



## binharb

SLO7H said:


> I've used the watch daily now, only time I take it off is when I go to sleep or take a shower.
> The daily average on the seconds differential is +6 seconds. Which is below the maximum (+8 seconds), so I am happy with that.
> Calculated the average from 5 days of usage, so today it would be in total 30 more seconds than 5 days ago. So about once a week I would have to stop the clock and wait for the real time to catch up.
> 
> Have anybody else calculated the daily average? And if so, how many days did you use it before calculating?


My daily average is about +3.8 seconds


----------



## binharb

Raindrops said:


> For those who own the White Birch, how is the accuracy? Mine has been running 10-14 sec fast per day so it is definitely out of specs. Not sure how they are going to fix this ‘fastness’ problem if I request to send it in? Also a bit concerned with potential scratches and dings if I were to send it in and it doesn’t get sent to Japan for servicing due to some horror stories I have come across about GS servicing outside of Japan. Anyone has any idea what the process is? I am from Singapore by the way. And I love this watch too! Thanks! 😀


mine is at +3.8 seconds so far. When I first got it it was at the +6 seconds mark but I guess it stabilized after a while of wearing it on the wrist.


----------



## binharb

Chrono Brewer said:


> Has anybody with this 9SA5 movement seen it level out after a month or two of running? Someone prior said they had a Rolex out of spec but normalize after a while. If not, I'm hesitant to be an early adopter of this new caliber if there are kinks to work out.


This happened to me. It normalized after about two months of wear.


----------



## Goyo924

Rain_City said:


> You ever get the right fit?


I finally got the 22mm strap for it from the boutique. Here are a couple of very quick pics.


----------



## GSNewbie

binharb said:


> This happened to me. It normalized after about two months of wear.


That surprises me. I own quite a few watches and also had the White Birch for several weeks before I returned it because of the inaccurate rate.
None of my watches changed the rate by more than 1.5-2 seconds in total.
But who expects a very accurate running watch like me, is certainly not bad advised to simply be patient with the next purchase of this model.


----------



## GSNewbie

Goyo924 said:


> I finally got the 22mm strap for it from the boutique. Here are a couple of very quick pics.


Did you get also an original folding clasp from GS or only the strap?


----------



## Goyo924

GSNewbie said:


> Did you get also an original folding clasp from GS or only the strap?


Just the strap with a simple “GS” branded tang buckle.


----------



## Rain_City

Goyo924 said:


> I finally got the 22mm strap for it from the boutique. Here are a couple of very quick pics.


Love it! Now to see if my AD can find one 🤣


----------



## misterpeanut

Just picked mine up from an AD. As has already been discussed, the dial is like artwork on the wrist, the depth of which cannot be appreciated in photos. The dial is surprisingly legible due to the texture and polish differences between hands and dial, again, mostly only evident in person. The new case is a game changer, addressing one of GS’s Achilles heel: case thickness. Now just address the bracelet taper and they are cooking with gas.

Also came with the new GS electronically activated 5 year warranty card. No more carbon paper slips!


----------



## binharb

GSNewbie said:


> That surprises me. I own quite a few watches and also had the White Birch for several weeks before I returned it because of the inaccurate rate.
> None of my watches changed the rate by more than 1.5-2 seconds in total.
> But who expects a very accurate running watch like me, is certainly not bad advised to simply be patient with the next purchase of this model.


I 100% agree with you. None of my other watches had fluctuated by this much before it stabilized on a value! I yet have to see it change again but I don't expect it... as it's been stable ever since. Going for about a month and a half now. I'll report it if it misbehaves though.


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Three months later, this watch is getting most of the wrist time in my collection. I think it's the perfect GS *for me *for what I like in watches.

Tried a different combo today and liked the contrast with the dial:


----------



## SLO7H

ChronoTraveler said:


> Three months later, this watch is getting most of the wrist time in my collection. I think it's the perfect GS *for me *for what I like in watches.
> 
> Tried a different combo today and liked the contrast with the dial:


Looking good.
I am wearing mine on rotation, so it gets wrist time every 2nd day.
Nobody has any watch quite like this one anywhere I am going, and I love it.
Nobody knows the price, only I do, and it looks amazing.


----------



## Rain_City

ChronoTraveler said:


> Three months later, this watch is getting most of the wrist time in my collection. I think it's the perfect GS *for me *for what I like in watches.
> 
> Tried a different combo today and liked the contrast with the dial:
> 
> View attachment 16248365


Nice! What strap is that? I have a couple grey suede straps I rotate in every now and then, but I always end up coming back to the bracelet in the end. Although I wish it had a little more taper to it, the watch is such a treat to wear!


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Rain_City said:


> Nice! What strap is that? I have a couple grey suede straps I rotate in every now and then, but I always end up coming back to the bracelet in the end. Although I wish it had a little more taper to it, the watch is such a treat to wear!


This one's a fairly affordable from AliExpress: 

9.89US $ 10% OFF|Hemsut Genuine Leather Watch bands Bracelet Quick Release Dark Grey Calf Replacement Watch Strap For Women Men 18 20mm 22mm|Watchbands| - AliExpress 

Celestial teal color; very good feel and look, especially for the price. It even has quick release pins.

I also love the bracelet, as well as suede straps. In my opinion, smooth-textured/"patternless' straps better fit this watch as there's already too much texture in the dial. I don't think alligator or ostrich options would work, for instance.


----------



## blairgscott

Rain_City said:


> Nice! What strap is that? I have a couple grey suede straps I rotate in every now and then, but I always end up coming back to the bracelet in the end. Although I wish it had a little more taper to it, the watch is such a treat to wear!


Im looking for a nice grey suede strap for this watch. Where did you get yours?


----------



## Rain_City

I got one from Artem, and one from Bas and Lokes. I like the looks, but I don’t think either are enough to justify the high price


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Another angle - direct light on a cloudy day.


----------



## Chrono Brewer

What size spring bar tips are these? Typical 0.9mm or larger 1.1mm? Looking at rubber straps for my wife's upcoming SLGA007.


----------



## jimmie33

Raindrops said:


> For those who own the White Birch, how is the accuracy? Mine has been running 10-14 sec fast per day so it is definitely out of specs. Not sure how they are going to fix this ‘fastness’ problem if I request to send it in? Also a bit concerned with potential scratches and dings if I were to send it in and it doesn’t get sent to Japan for servicing due to some horror stories I have come across about GS servicing outside of Japan. Anyone has any idea what the process is? I am from Singapore by the way. And I love this watch too! Thanks! 😀


Mine has the same problem. When I received it, it was 20-30s faster per day. Sent it back for a service and it was returned nearly 3 months later. Just tested it. It is still 10+s fast per day. Pretty disappointed tbh.


----------



## ChronoTraveler

Playing with the colors.


----------



## SLO7H

jimmie33 said:


> Mine has the same problem. When I received it, it was 20-30s faster per day. Sent it back for a service and it was returned nearly 3 months later. Just tested it. It is still 10+s fast per day. Pretty disappointed tbh.


The manual recommends that you record it over 10 days.
So set the time, wait 10 days and then calculate the daily average.

If it is still +10 seconds, then you are damn unlucky and have to send it back.
Mine hangs around +6 when I test it over many weeks. But when I tested it for only 4 days, it was +7 seconds. So the amount of days tested is important.

Also, it is recommended to wind the spring 1 time everyday at the same time to achieve the highest accuracy possible. Even though it is automatic. I haven't done this myself, but I will start doing it to test if I get better results.
This graph depicts the accuracy when the "power" is high vs low.









Change in temperature affects it, how long you wear it everyday.
I wear mine from I wake up until I go to bed, then is sits on my night stand in this position.









What we can say about the movement, is that it is better than Rolex. BUT, it does not go through the same testing that Rolex does. It does not go through the standard Chrono testing either, which is 5 positions. And because of this, the movement is not adjusted for 5 positions. Therefore the + seconds can be as high as +8 depending on how you use it, temperature and many other factors.
But it should never be higher than +8 just be sure to test it for more than 4 days, minimum 10 days.


----------



## GSNewbie

To be honest, I cannot agree with this statement in any way.
First of all, where did you get the idea that "we" would think that the caliber 9SA5 is better than a Rolex caliber, e.g. the 3235 that has been used since 2017/2018?
Is it better for you because visible?
Is it better for you because Hi-Beat?
Is it better for you because higher power reserve?
Or is it better for them because you can compare the watch directly with a Rolex watch with a new caliber?
Your attached graph shows the normal behavior of an automatic watch when the spring is running down, i.e. lower power reserve.
However, it has always been the case that the manufacturers want to and are able to reduce exactly this problem of the changed rate to a minimum, depending on the winding of the spring. So also GS, so also with the new caliber 9SA5 - at least in theory.
GS states in this regard, quote:"
Caliber 9SA5 has both a long power reserve (80 hours) and a high precision rate of +5 to -3 seconds per day. Two innovations make these advances possible. First, a new Dual Impulse Escapement dramatically improves the efficiency of the driving force transmitted to the balance. Second, the use of twin barrels enables the mainspring to store more energy and extend the power reserve. The pairing of these innovations results in consistent accuracy and a power reserve that is 45% longer than that of the existing Grand Seiko high beat Caliber 9S8 series. ( Source: grand-seiko.com)
Further it is explained here, quote:“ Caliber 9SA5 features a free-sprung balance that does not have a regulator to control the pace of the watch. “The lack of a regulator makes the entire watch more durable because its accuracy is less likely to suffer due to it being dropped or subjected to other impact.“ Quote end.
This means that thermal influences should also be as low as possible.

Here, too, GS is in line with the efforts of other watch manufacturers to reduce thermal influences where possible, or even, as in the case of the new GS caliber 9RA2, to design the critical components in such a way that they are not affected by thermal influences.

Back to the SLGH005 aka WB.

After it should be clear that GS has tried to reduce the problems of deviation in different positions, the rate at different stages of the winding, and the influence of temperatures on the rate to a minimum and thus promises a higher precision, coupled with a higher power reserve, the statement in the manual about precision is surprising, quote: "This watch has a precision rate of -1 to +8 seconds per day. If the average daily rate exceeds these values, we recommend readjusting the watch accordingly." End quote.

There is now no mention of -3/+5 seconds, as this information is readily provided by GS.However, these values are static values and are unlike the values of Rolex, not guaranteed.😉

Let's get back to your statement that the Rolex movement is worse than the GS movement.
Well, from the pure facts of the data of the manufacturers and what they want to be measured in each case,
Rolex: -2/+2
GS(9SA5) -1/+8
it should be clear who is definitely better, as long as you value precision.
If you have other criteria, that is of course also o.k.😉


Even if the watch is worn daily, it is nonsense to take it off once a day at the same time. This should only be done if the watch is to be kept running without wearing it on the wrist, at least that's what it says in my manual😉.

GS would do well in my opinion in the future to test and certify the watches only when the movement is switched on.
Every halfway qualified watchmaker has knowledge that just when the movement is used, changes in the course are not uncommon and a further regulation may be necessary.
This would eliminate at least one source of error.
Yes, the watch is regulated in six positions.
It's amazing what kind of result you come up with and explain a higher rate deviation with it.
Do you realize that you can't regulate every position?
The aim of every manufacturer is to achieve the smallest possible deviation of the positions on one axis, as well as on the opposite sides.
Only if the gear per layer is approximately the same, or is not too far apart, makes any sense to regulate.

In my opinion, the statement of the average rate makes no sense and gives no information about the actual precision of a movement or a watch.

The average daily rate is not very meaningful about the qualitative running behavior of the watch.
Describes only the regulation of the movement.
If you want to know how well the movement runs, what uncertainty is in the rate behavior, then you have to compare the slowest daily rate and the fastest daily rate and form the difference.

If you then have a value greater than 4 seconds, well, then the watch is at least on this criterion outside the GS specifications, but still probably on a 10 day measurement at the average daily rate within the GS standard specifications.
These are not very ambitious in my view.


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## SLO7H

Indeed


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## osmin

This inaccurancy is preventing me from buying this watch. Sure, you can get lucky and have a good one. But up to 10s a day is unacceptable for me and a 10k watch. Dont understand how GS can settle for that.


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## SLO7H

osmin said:


> This inaccurancy is preventing me from buying this watch. Sure, you can get lucky and have a good one. But up to 10s a day is unacceptable for me and a 10k watch. Dont understand how GS can settle for that.


+8 is absolute max that they allow.
I know what you mean. But then this watch isn't for you. There are some watches that look so good that it doesn't matter that much.

All you need to do is pay more attention to it. Like stopping the time a few seconds every week. It's not that hard. Yeah you pay Rolex prices. But Rolex would NEVER make something that look like this. So I am happy with my +6 seconds. If I wind it to max everyday by hand, I get it down to +5. And all I have to do it pull out the crown 1 or 2 times a week, wait a few seconds. It just seems so bizarre to decide to not purchase.


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## JJ312

SLO7H said:


> It does not go through the standard Chrono testing either, which is 5 positions. And because of this, the movement is not adjusted for 5 positions.


You're right - it actually gets adjusted to six positions. In fact, it says so right on the movement.








And yet they still can't get it right!! Look, I love Grand Seiko as much as the next guy, but this movement has some serious teething problems which they really need to iron out.


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## Chrono Brewer

This is quite the exception to Grand Seiko's eye for detail. Heck, they age their quartz crystals three months to ensure max stability. There must be some element of 9SA5 that meets spec during in-house testing and then starts to deviate. Surely extending their testing would allow this component to reach equilibrium and they could regulate it afterward. It's otherwise a brilliant improvement to their mechanical movements.


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## singularityseven

I think the best course of action as enthusiasts and buyers is to call it for what it is and not make excuses for the brand. We're all here because at some fundamental level we feel strongly enough about the brand to take time off our days to talk about it. And I think if we talk about it enough, Grand Seiko will take note. When Grand Seiko released the 9SA5 they did set the bar high with the spec sheet, the song and dance that accompanied it, and the fact that it was supposed to be the best automatic movement they've made to date. Based on comments from this thread, Facebook and other discussion groups on the internet, it appears that they fell short on some of those promises. It is still a gorgeous movement on some gorgeous watches - but I don't think their eye for aesthetics was ever in question. They committed to certain bounds on accuracy but for some reason are unable to meet those numbers at scale. My Birch is running at around +6 to +7spd on average, which is decent but hard to swallow given how much engineering innovation went into making a movement (and how much money it cost me) to end up keeping time slightly worse than the ETA2824 in my Tudor Black Bay.


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## munizfire

I had the opportunity to handle a BNIB one yesterday at my AD.
I'll accept my ignorance, and admit that I wasn't expecting it to be more of a metallic silver, rather than actual white, was a little bit disappointed, but felt great nonetheless.
Beautiful piece.


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## Relojeros

Seems that inaccuracy for GS is what bezel misalignment is for Seiko watches... somehow acceptable among fans...


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## Goyo924

Has anyone that’s sent their SLGH005 for service received word of what could be causing the accuracy issues? I initially had great accuracy of about plus 2-3 seconds a day. After a few months I’m now gaining about 5-7 seconds a day. I understand the watch is still within wearing specs. It’s just disappointing to see it drift so much now.


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## GSNewbie

My watch had something wrong with the Dual Impulse escapement.
Simply put, there were problems with the pallets on the pallet, both input pallet and output pallet.Which in turn belong to the escapement of the watch.

So in my case, a technical problem with the new Dual Impulse escapement.
In addition, there was a lack of fine adjustment.


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## Euron Greyjoy

Goyo924 said:


> Has anyone that’s sent their SLGH005 for service received word of what could be causing the accuracy issues? I initially had great accuracy of about plus 2-3 seconds a day. After a few months I’m now gaining about 5-7 seconds a day. I understand the watch is still within wearing specs. It’s just disappointing to see it drift so much now.


I recently found this thread and received my white birch back from Japan yesterday. I've had it for 6 months and it was approximately 20 seconds too fast per day so I decided to have it regulated a bit over 3 months ago. 

I've only had it back for 24 hours now but so far it seems to be 10 seconds too fast still. I'll have to monitor this for a while though. 

Took Grand Seiko Japan 3 months and they also exchanged the gaskets and did some polishing (both of which I haven't asked for but there was one tiny hairline scratch on the case which is now gone so I'm not complaining). 

They sent back a detailed report with an extensive checklist where it says what they have inspected (basically everything) but regarding the accuracy it only says "adjustment", you get a nice Grand Seiko pouch for free and a Grand Seiko booklet about watch maintenance. 

As always, very friendly and good service but no actual reason or explanation given and my local GS guys here in Thailand also don't know more because this movement is only being serviced in Japan. 

One thing I've noticed the other day is that they have changed the text on the website:

Accuracy : +5 to -3 seconds per day (when static) / +8 to -1 seconds per day (normal usage accuracy) 


Before, it only said +5 to - 3 seconds per day. 

So I'm assuming they're getting a lot of watches with this movement sent over for adjustment.


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## Goyo924

Euron Greyjoy said:


> I recently found this thread and received my white birch back from Japan yesterday. I've had it for 6 months and it was approximately 20 seconds too fast per day so I decided to have it regulated a bit over 3 months ago.
> 
> I've only had it back for 24 hours now but so far it seems to be 10 seconds too fast still. I'll have to monitor this for a while though.
> 
> Took Grand Seiko Japan 3 months and they also exchanged the gaskets and did some polishing (both of which I haven't asked for but there was one tiny hairline scratch on the case which is now gone so I'm not complaining).
> 
> They sent back a detailed report with an extensive checklist where it says what they have inspected (basically everything) but regarding the accuracy it only says "adjustment", you get a nice Grand Seiko pouch for free and a Grand Seiko booklet about watch maintenance.
> 
> As always, very friendly and good service but no actual reason or explanation given and my local GS guys here in Thailand also don't know more because this movement is only being serviced in Japan.
> 
> One thing I've noticed the other day is that they have changed the text on the website:
> 
> Accuracy : +5 to -3 seconds per day (when static) / +8 to -1 seconds per day (normal usage accuracy)
> 
> 
> Before, it only said +5 to - 3 seconds per day.
> 
> So I'm assuming they're getting a lot of watches with this movement sent over for adjustment.


Thanks for sharing your experience. About 3 weeks ago I noted that my SLGH005 started gaining between 5-7 seconds a day. It’s now gaining about 10 seconds a day.


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## Euron Greyjoy

Goyo924 said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience. About 3 weeks ago I noted that my SLGH005 started gaining between 5-7 seconds a day. Since then I’ve realized that timekeeping of the 9SA5 movement seems to be very dependent on how much power reserve is available. I gave my SLGH005 a full wind a week ago and wore it almost every day this past week. After 7 days of wearing I’m seeing an average of +3 seconds a day again. I would give this a try.


Before I sent it over, I've also been noticing that fully wound, it's more accurate. I'll keep that in mind and continue to monitor it thanks.

It's not too big of a deal anyway since I don't wear it all that often and have a couple of spring drive and one GS quartz when I want accuracy but it still kinda bothers me as I'm not used to these rather large deviations and behavior dependent on whether I wear it or not wear it, in what position I let it rest overnight etc.

Most of my Omegas are almost as accurate as a GS Spring Drive watch and require zero thought as to whether I wind them or not and how I wear them or let them rest overnight. 

Still great to have it back, gonna enjoy a second honeymoon phase with the white birch now.


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## ChronoTraveler

Not sure if someone posted, but there's a cool article about how the Birch dial is made;


















How the Grand Seiko SLGH005 White Birch dial is made - Relozo


This watch captures the dynamism of the white birch tree forests near the studio in Shizukuishi, where all Grand Seiko mechanical watches are crafted.




relozo.com


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## singularityseven

A fantastic review/video of the SLGH005 from Brandon Menancio, now a contributor at Hodinkee:


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## munichblue

singularityseven said:


> A fantastic review/video of the SLGH005 from Brandon Menancio, now a contributor at Hodinkee:


Just out of interest, what makes the review so fantastic for you? His passion, his conviction, the beautiful shots?


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## singularityseven

munichblue said:


> Just out of interest, what makes the review so fantastic for you? His passion, his conviction, the beautiful shots?


The beautiful shots most importantly, and I like how passionate he is about this watch and Grand Seiko in general. I've liked his work on his own personal channel for a while now, so I'm glad to see his talents being recognized by Hodinkee.


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## ChronoTraveler

Another combo: blue saffiano with white stitching.


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## deuxani




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## singularityseven

Exactly a year after starting this thread I can contribute some footage to it - here is the dial and movement of the SLGH005!


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## bibbibart

singularityseven said:


> Exactly two years after starting this thread I can contribute some footage to it - here is the dial and movement of the SLGH005!


Can we agree on this that it has been only ONE and not TWO years?


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## singularityseven

bibbibart said:


> Can we agree on this that it has been only ONE and not TWO years?


Yikes, I'm getting old.

Edited.


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## Kakemonster

I see now that several strap options are available for the white birch on GS website. It looks like the same options are available for the slgh011 and slga007 as well. What colors do people think look the best? The black and light blue are my favorites.

Link (scroll down for strap options) SLGH005 | Collections | Grand Seiko


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## ChronoTraveler

Kakemonster said:


> I see now that several strap options are available for the white birch on GS website. It looks like the same options are available for the slgh011 and slga007 as well. What colors do people think look the best? The black and light blue are my favorites.
> 
> Link (scroll down for strap options) SLGH005 | Collections | Grand Seiko


Navy, light blue and light green (as long as the color is exactly like the one on their page, a bit _taupe_), in this order. I think pretty much all their options are good, except the warm orange one - the tone doesn't match the dial at all in my opinion.


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## Goyo924

Just curious, has anyone sent in their SLGH005 and actually received a watch that is running within specs of -1 to +8 s/d? Looks like most people who send in their watch for service are seeing around +10 s/d upon return. This is really disappointing for this movement.


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## Euron Greyjoy

Goyo924 said:


> Just curious, has anyone sent in their SLGH005 and actually received a watch that is running within specs of -1 to +8 s/d? Looks like most people who send in their watch for service are seeing around +10 s/d upon return. This is really disappointing for this movement.


Can't say I have. Mine runs well over +10s/day after the adjustment. 

Someone in Japan told me it's because I live in a tropical country, supposedly this movement doesn't do well with heat, not sure if this is true though.


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## Raindrops

Mine is running around 12-13 spd fast after servicing in Japan. I have resigned myself to this situation though. Luckily the watch looks really pleasing and feels very comfortable despite the lack of any micro-adjustment!


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## osmin

Any new owners? Are you satisfied with the watch keeping the time?


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## noregrets

osmin said:


> Any new owners? Are you satisfied with the watch keeping the time?


I've had mine since early summer. Timekeeping on mine has been a little disappointing, but the piece itself is spectactular imo. I think I have received more compliments on it than on any watch I've ever owned.


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## ink3027

The timekeeping issues are disappointing on an otherwise beautiful watch.


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## whineboy

ink3027 said:


> The timekeeping issues are disappointing on an otherwise beautiful watch.


Agreed. Considering the improved timekeeping of the 9RAx Spring Drive movements, this is a failure. 
My 4 year old 9S86 keeps much better time than these next-gen models. 


Having a great time….


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## osmin

Ok. I thought they might have the problem in check now


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## Goyo924

When I wear my green birch I gain an average of 5-6 seconds a day at the most. I leave it resting crown up overnight. If not being worn, it gains about 1-2 seconds a day.


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## chas58

ChronoTraveler said:


> Playing with the colors.


Me too:











SLO7H said:


> What we can say about the movement, is that it is better than Rolex. BUT, it does not go through the same testing that Rolex does. It does not go through the standard Chrono testing either, which is 5 positions. And because of this, the movement is not adjusted for 5 positions. Therefore the + seconds can be as high as +8 depending on how you use it, temperature and many other factors.
> But it should never be higher than +8 just be sure to test it for more than 4 days, minimum 10 days.


Better than rolex? Looks better, sounds better on paper, doesn't tell time nearly as well...
guess which one is Rolex. (come on GS, you can do better)






















munizfire said:


> I had the opportunity to handle a BNIB one yesterday at my AD.
> I'll accept my ignorance, and admit that I wasn't expecting it to be more of a metallic silver, rather than actual white, was a little bit disappointed, but felt great nonetheless.
> Beautiful piece.


The spring drive white birch is actually white, the high beat is actually silver. I'll say the spring drive is a bit more legible, that dial is very nice.


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## munizfire

chas58 said:


> The spring drive white birch is actually white, the high beat is actually silver. I'll say the spring drive is a bit more legible, that dial is very nice.


Ah!
The one I handled was the high-beat (just saw the picture). Thanks for the clarification


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## chas58

munizfire said:


> Ah!
> The one I handled was the high-beat (just saw the picture). Thanks for the clarification


Fratello (or someone) has a good video comparing the subtle differences between the two.
The High Beat white birch is really the *silver birch* with a very shiny reflective dial

The *spring drive white birch* is really white (not very shiny, and a bit softer textured) - a little more like the snowflake. Isn't obvious in pictures, but these kinda show the difference. The sliver birch is reflecting the blue sky and red fall colors (unlike the snowflake which doesn't reflect anything, its always pure white).

















The contrast on the spring drive is great.


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