# AK Homme... a different Chinese Mechanical?



## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

Over the past couple years I've bought a couple dozen of the Chinese autowinders. Not that I needed them; the prices was cheaper than dirt and I like watches. And, the Chinese watches ARE nice looking.

Some of those watches turned out to be fair watches, but quite a few of them were not. Some even arrived in non-fuctioning condition. I remember one that didn't even have a case gasket installed by the factory. Crowns have pulled off, movements have failed, etc., etc., etc.

The most consistent problem is that not a single one of the "automatic" movements will wind in normal wear. If I wear them, I have to wind them manually once-per-day as with a manual watch. The rotors just don't turn much at all and what little bit they do turn isn't enough to wind the mainspring. A couple of these watches keep time surprisingly well.

A few weeks ago I picked up yet another Chinese "automatic" off eBay. The usual .99-cents, with virtually the entire cost comprised of shipping charges. It's an large AK Homme brand, and looks like the Jaragars and all the other brands I can't remember at the present. But!... in handling the watch I noticed that the rotor had a whirring sound when the watch is shook; something the other Chinese automatics do not have. This watch DOES wind on the arm.

After wearing the Homme for a while I opened the back to adjust the regulator. All the other watches have the same movement, but not this Homme. It appears to be one of the "Chinese Standards", but looks quite different from all the others which leads me to recall reading something a while back about an "upgraded" Chinese standard movement. 

This watch is extremely accurate by any standard; it's more accurate than I can set by hand. I keep missing the sweet spot but the watch keeps time to within +/- 2 seconds a day depending on the regulator setting. And, it's consistently fast or slow, not bouncing around in the same setting.

Just thought I'd run this by anyone who is interested. I'm going to buy a few more AK Hommes and see if I only have a fluke, or if the Homme brand uses a better movement. I didn't take any photographs, but if anyone is interested I can post a couple.


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## ej0rge (Jan 13, 2011)

Most of the cheap chinese autos i have here are fitted with movements that hack, handwind, and autowind a little. I find that all of those require me to wind them up a little when i start wearing them, but then maintain their winding. Generally speaking, low-dollar movements that have both auto and hand winding only auto wind in one direction, which makes the auto-winding much less efficient. 

I've seen standard movements with an auto bridge added, can't come across a picture of one just now. They look like a standard movement with another bridge on top.


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

Yes, which reminds me...this AK Homme hacks; none of the other .99-cent watches I've bought has this feature. And the others do seem to be just a standard movement with an autowind bridge affixed.


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## ej0rge (Jan 13, 2011)

can you post pictures of the movement?


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

A picture would be very helpful. I suspect that you've got one of the new Liaocheng models (e.g. the G series on the full catalog from PTS Resources) but I'd need to see a photo to be sure. 

The G series movement features a magic lever winding mechanism, which typically gives a distinctive burring noise from the pawl fingers sliding across the pawl wheel. By contrast, traditional Standard autos (ETA-style double-reverser) are typically very quiet. The current major movement suppier to the ultra-cheapy market seems to be Liaoning with their traditional style autos, and sadly they seem to use rotors that are too light to do the job.


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## sxk122 (Dec 21, 2010)

I have an AK Homme too, and it keeps good time, and stays wound in my automatic watch box when not in use.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/ak-homme-alias-kim-ak067-automatic-watch-489537.html


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

I grabbed a few quick shots of this AK Homme I've talked about. Not great quality photos... hope they are of some use.


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## ej0rge (Jan 13, 2011)

Well i can say for sure that it's not the standard-with-additional-bridge movement I've seen pictures of. That one looks exactly like a standard movement, with another bridge on the back. it's uncanny, and looks strange imho.


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## Pawl_Buster (Mar 12, 2007)

It has the magic lever auto winding system and is not a DG or NN caliber so it might be the HangZhou equivalent of the Seiko 7009 or 7s26.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Pawl_Buster said:


> It has the magic lever auto winding system and is not a DG or NN caliber so it might be the HangZhou equivalent of the Seiko 7009 or 7s26.


I agree, it is not a Standard. It is based on the Seiko/Orient pattern. However this one with the bridged auto-winding is _not_ from Hangzhou (which has an unbridged magic-lever system like the Seiko 7s26). There are two bridged variations on this theme. The nicer-looking one I have seen claimed to be from a minor factory in Shanghai (no idea who), and then there is this one, which I believe is from the Fujita watch company in Fujian.

Here are some photos of one which showed up on another forum:



















The Fujita website used to flash a picture of one of these in the opening animation, but not any more.


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## Dirk Dingle (Apr 30, 2011)

I* bought a couple of Chinese watches off the bay. The first one the glass fell out and packed up working after 3 weeks so went in the bin. But in that 3 weeks the watch just fell apart gradually anyway <|

I bought another which looked fantastic and expensive with moon phase etc but still had that typical (sorry) cheap Chinese looking quality about it :roll: The second kept pretty good time mind and did really well as it lasted 6 months before it gave up o|

I liked the Chinese watches for the same reason as i like the Russian, a slight basicness and crudness about them, especially the Soviet era but atleast the Russian watches seem to keep going ;-)

That is my take on it and maybe an unfair narrow minded one :think:*


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## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

Dirk,

If you only look at the cheap Chinese watches for a dollar a pop on eBay, then they would not be representative of what the best the Chinese watch industry can offer. Likewise, people look at the top-bracket Swiss watches and think that all Swiss watches were like them, but they would not be aware of the huge quantities of rather low-end pin-lever movements they churned out by the trainload.

Earlier today I had a chance to look at a fake Planet Ocean, it looked convincing but of course it's a "multi-function" rather than chronograph. I feel certain that firms like the one who makes the AK Homme "Planet Ocean homage" also produce the fakes by merely installing a dial with a different name on it.


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## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

Dirk Dingle said:


> That is my take on it and maybe an unfair narrow minded one :think:[/B]


Nothing unfair or narrow-minded at all about you passing on your experience, Dirk and *WELCOME* to the WUS Chinese Mechanical Watch forum! :-!. You didn't say anything mean or dishonest and I'm sure no one here took any offense.

The only point I'd make is similar to Seele's point. There is a huge range of manufacturers and quality levels--and vintages--available from Chinese producers. It would help us and visitors to the forum if you could be more specific about maybe brands, but certainly price ranges and sources of your unfortunate watches: were they from Ebay or Taobao, or mainstream sellers...that kind of thing.

There are certainly Chinese watches I stay away from because I don't trust the quality, and no one can fairly say I'm in any way "against" Chinese watches :-d. Some Chinese pieces are excellent...some are not (mind you even some of the poor stuff is _fun_ junk ;-).

And I have some Russian watches: 2 komandirskies, a Scuba Dude and a really nice Denissov/Okeah and I agree they're very often a great value.


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## Dirk Dingle (Apr 30, 2011)

AlbertaTime said:


> Nothing unfair or narrow-minded at all about you passing on your experience, Dirk and *WELCOME* to the WUS Chinese Mechanical Watch forum! :-!. You didn't say anything mean or dishonest and I'm sure no one here took any offense.
> 
> The only point I'd make is similar to Seele's point. There is a huge range of manufacturers and quality levels--and vintages--available from Chinese producers. It would help us and visitors to the forum if you could be more specific about maybe brands, but certainly price ranges and sources of your unfortunate watches: were they from Ebay or Taobao, or mainstream sellers...that kind of thing.
> 
> ...


*So you enjoy Russian too :-! The first watch was a square Military butch Chrono auto movement in black with rubber strap which i bought some time ago now. Can't remember the name but as per ebay sellers nothing well known or seen since. It looked the BIZ on the wrist and REALLY proud of it until on the first outing it stopped :think: A few taps and it went again until the glass fell out. Put the glass back in and got it going again. Couple days later the top button got loose and then fell out and lost :-s Then the bottom button done the same o| Then to add more groan the movement rewind wheel got really noisy whenever i moved my wrist. It stopped another 3 times before it just would,nt go at all. I got so fed up i through it away, it was a total load of :-x:-x (rubbish).The second one i bought from a UK seller with a tacky name (sorry it was some time ago now again and not your main stream maker) and looked abit like the AK moon phase on the bay now but with some fake non sense numbers too. That watch stayed pretty good and reliable the whole time i was wearing it almost everyday but it eventually started periodically stopping for no reason and by this time had enough of Chinese reliability so binned it :-s

To be fair they were cheap and chearful so not worth repairing but if the first watch was a premium quality watch that would have been something awesome * *b-)

There seems to be little in the way of buying proper Chinese watches of interest compared to the Russian stuff * *:-( Either that or i am looking in the wrong places :think:*


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## arktika1148 (Nov 21, 2010)

There seems to be little in the way of buying proper Chinese watches of interest compared to the Russian stuff [/B] *:-( Either that or i am looking in the wrong places :think:*[/QUOTE]

Try usseagull.

Have to agree on solid , bullet-proof Russkies ,and some of the best I've ever had, but the better Chinese are worth checking out.

I got a Seagull 55 which is one of my all time favorites; Parnis open-heart well made (noisey rotor even I can hear); a germasian stunner ; and an NOS Shangai from a ebay store in China , a pain to date set but a little stunner .
There are some NOS Seagull ST5's on ebay I've got my eye on , but a major wish-list is a BaiHai from Beijing.


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## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

Let's look at an analogy in the history of Formula One motor racing.

Back in the early days, all the teams designed their own cars - even the engines - and built as much of them as they could. Obviously they would be really stupid to make their own nuts and bolts, light bulbs, tyres etc. Then they raced them under their own banners: they're known as the "grand costruttori".

Later on, when ready-made engines became available, new teams started using them: basically they got engines, gearboxes and perhaps more, put them together to make cars. People then called them "assemblatori". Certainly they might triumph over the grand costructtori but when all is said and done, they're considered to be somewhat "lesser".

In the watch business you can see something of a parallel here. Among the Russian makers, most are grand costruttori, such as Raketa, Vostok, Zaria, MakTime, etc. Even some firms like Moscow Classic, Volmax and such, are splinter groups from the collapse of Poljot but still operate within the original Poljot campus, and using movements such as the 3133 built by MakTime who's also there.

Of course, among Russian marques there are a few assemblatori such as Orion: they do not build a lot of parts themselves, but bought in cases, movements etc from outside suppliers, and then bolted them together and sold them under their own brands. In the watch industry they're called "jobbers", but they are still proper companies.

That is why getting a Vostok or such Russian watch, you are getting the reassurance that there is a company who built them and stand behind them.

Likewise, Sea-Gull is a grand construttore, and so are Beijing and other such companies.

However, in the watch business, there is also an extra dimension to it. There could be a company who created a brand and then get someone else to build them and put that name on. Who really built it, who's actually behind it, your guess is as good as mine. With the advantage of being totally anonymous, they would be more than tempted to build down to a price, than to build up to a standard. They would go to those who make watches who might be equally anonymous and get them made as cheaply as possible regardless of quality.

These establishments who build these questionable pieces have to be located somewhere, but they have nothing to do with the grand construttori in that same country. Imagine if they're somewhere in Switzerland, it would make no sense to say that the products by the grand construttori in Switzerland are no good. To get a good piece you just have to go for those offered by real companies who really make watches and stand by them.

The situation is as simple as that.


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## salemm (Jan 25, 2011)

I have seen a number of versions of the same watch on eBay, variously labeled: Ouyahwei, Soki, AK Homme, Ik colouring etc. I bought an Ouyahwei six-handed. It is not a bad watch. It keeps good time, has a hacking device, and ran as soon as I picked it up. The power reserve is over 24 hours. In this regard, it seems to be a step up from "Goer" and Chinese watches labeled "semi-automatic". Still it is huge watch (45 mm. diameter, 15 mm. thick. I had hoped the rubber watchband would be better than the synth leather that comes with these lower end watches, but I soon found out that the buckle is poorly designed and cut into my wrist. Unfortunately, my particular watch arrived with a small imperfection on the dial, which I chose to ignore, and after six weeks, the white luminous material fell out of the hour hand. Thus the quality is lacking. Don't get me wrong, for $20 I was not expecting perfection. I could send it back under warranty, but that would cost almot as much as I paid for it. I am thinking that I will use this watch as an opportunity to learn how to replace watch hands.

AK homme appears to be attempting to take the same cheap watch and apply upscale marketing to increase their margin. Features like fancy boxes, tags and warranty cards give the appearance of quality, but the reality is that these are low end watches. Caveat emptor.


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## ej0rge (Jan 13, 2011)

A lot of us think that AK Homme and Eyki are both really IK Colouring. Soki is pretty recent and may or may not be. Ouyahwei for some reason i seem to associate more with brands like Fuyate and Fineat.


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## salemm (Jan 25, 2011)

ej0rge said:


> A lot of us think that AK Homme and Eyki are both really IK Colouring. Soki is pretty recent and may or may not be. Ouyahwei for some reason i seem to associate more with brands like Fuyate and Fineat.


Perhaps it it is the Chinese version of Fossil and Relic: The watches are the same except for the brand name put on them. A similar phenomenon can be seen with the various brands that always at market sell. One often sees Rousseau, Bernoulli, Eberli etc brands with the same or similar design.


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## ej0rge (Jan 13, 2011)

well, I've purchased two Eyki's and can state unequivocally that the quality of work is well below my Goers. 

Even though the linear movement in the more expensive Eyki is nifty. They just didn't care. 

I saw IK Colouring watches in person at a mall kiosk years ago and was repulsed by the build quality, and the ugly logo.


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## Phil_6506 (Aug 12, 2009)

I have two Olipai and one Orkina with the same movement. It might be Chinese SP16 movement as related to the web site Chinese Made Mechanical Watch Movements.
Their winding mechanism are pretty good. The Olipai runs +3s/day, and the Orkina +30s/day. Once I let the Olipai ran non-stop in 3 months with no problem,
but I 'm unsure how long will it last. Got them $20 each on eBay last year. Here are some borrowed pictures:


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Looks like you've found a match. The only mystery now is who makes the SP movements (aka the 'Orient clone'). The closest we've got on this forum is where one ebay seller said they were from a factory in Shanghai, but not the famous one. By all accounts, the winding mechanisms on these SPs are excellent. Overall build quality is reputed to be variable, but that may be due to them being primarily used in the cheapest brands and therefore cased-up in less-than-favourable conditions.


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## salemm (Jan 25, 2011)

That looks llike the movement in the 6 hand ouyahwei I bought. As I said before, it keeps excellent time.


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## Phil_6506 (Aug 12, 2009)

Chascomm said:


> Looks like you've found a match. The only mystery now is who makes the SP movements (aka the 'Orient clone'). The closest we've got on this forum is where one ebay seller said they were from a factory in Shanghai, but not the famous one. By all accounts, the winding mechanisms on these SPs are excellent. Overall build quality is reputed to be variable, but that may be due to them being primarily used in the cheapest brands and therefore cased-up in less-than-favourable conditions.


Hi, Chascomm. I found your old post about the topic in 2009. Very interesting.
Here it is
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/mt-sp-movement-identification-324652.html

Cheer,
Phil


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## ej0rge (Jan 13, 2011)

fwiw this movement looks nothing like the one i found in my newly-acquired Bagelsport Daytona. No pics yet, maybe in a few hours.


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## goodwolfe (Nov 7, 2010)

I have two AK Hommes mechanicals including one that I wore daily for six months and kept as good a time as any mechanical that I've ever had. I recently added a Kronen & Sohne, which is almost identical to my existing AK Hommes models. These were all in the $30.00 range and look great to me and have performed very well so far. Below are links from the Ebay pages as I don't have a decent camera yet to take photos, but to go six months as a daily wearer with no problems and still look good, I thought was something worth mentioning here. These are fun, cheap, and seemingly decent mechanicals but my personal favorite watches are still my Vostok Partner and my Orient Mako, both represent the absolute best value in a mechanical watch that you'll ever find, IMHO. The links for the two different "brands" are below to check them out.

KS Blue Tourbillon Automatic Mechanical Date Men Watch - eBay (item 140547046220 end time Jun-08-11 20:32:29 PDT)

AK HOMME Day Date Mens Automatic Mechanical Wrist Watch | eBay


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## ej0rge (Jan 13, 2011)

How is the case finishing on your KS and AK watches? 

Any obviously glaring machining problems? 

I'm afraid that my MQJ sub has ruined any controlled expectations i should have about $30 watches.


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## goodwolfe (Nov 7, 2010)

ej0rge said:


> How is the case finishing on your KS and AK watches?
> 
> Any obviously glaring machining problems?
> 
> I'm afraid that my MQJ sub has ruined any controlled expectations i should have about $30 watches.


Of my two AK Homme watches, the one I wore daily for over six months is showing some slight "pitting" on the back edge of the case, where the other shows no changes, and the two new KS, well, are too new to say yet. It's a shame, because functionally, all four of these are very accurate timekeepers, the auto mechanism works flawlessly, and overall it feels solid and is a very attractive and durable watch, (unlike a Goer, Flent, etc & some other cheap chinese mechanicals). I actually put these AK and KS in a different category. With a more heavy duty and durable finish, these should easily sell for double or more what they do now. Again, and this is huge to me; the mechanical auto movement never stopped running during the six months I wore it, and the time was never more than a minute or two off a week, and was also dropped a least a few times with no ill effect. Pretty amazing to me for a $30.00 mechanical watch.


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## Phil_6506 (Aug 12, 2009)

It 's likely the movement in the AK Homme is the SP16 and for the KS, Shanghai MS 2L27. The Shanghai MS2L27 can also be found in Olipai, Orkina, Rousseau, Monte Wehro...
There is an article about the Shanghai at Watchussek
https://www.watchuseek.com/f72/vaan-konrad-shanghai-2l27-pictures-511902.html

Happy watch hunting


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## Phil_6506 (Aug 12, 2009)

SP16 is an Orient clone movement. Quite interesting.


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## Reecek (Sep 30, 2010)

I've had 2 AK Homme's, both are still running, I gave them both to my son, the only gripe I have is the small dials are *too* small that even with my reading glasses on I can't read them!!


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

My experience has only been with two grades of the Chinese movements... the better Seagull movements in such brands as Alpha, and the $1.99 varieties. I don't expect much from the el cheapos... neither do I normally get it although a few have surprised me and still run reliably and accurately even though the finish on the parts look like they were cut from stock using a mill file 

Since starting the thread I've ordered 3 more AK Homme watches. I call the movements (whatever they are!) "mid-grade." Not nearly as fine as Seagull's product, but several rungs above the bottom of-the-barrel variety. I can actually rely on these things to keep time and get me where I need to be.


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

Don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but here a link where you can actually but that SP-16 movement.

Star Time Supply: Chinese Movement, Product No. CH-SP16


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## Pawl_Buster (Mar 12, 2007)

mnpd said:


> Don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but here a link where you can actually but that SP-16 movement.
> 
> Star Time Supply: Chinese Movement, Product No. CH-SP16


Slimey shysters took all my info then e-mail me to say they won't give me an account :-|

Their name is now mud in my eyes :-(

Maybe I'll get them shut down for dishonest gathering of marketing information!


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## chuckroast (May 26, 2011)

I have a number of chinese watches with varying results..The automatics can be problems in that some need to be manually wound; I do not know if they are of similar movements or different movements. The Sea Gull ST25's seem to run without manually winding and keep accurate time. 

I have a number of Unitas based 6497 and 6498's; I don't know who makes them as they can be made by several companies; They all seem to run OK, keeping fairly accurate time. 

Generally speaking the manual winding watches seem to be more dependable.


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

I picked up a few more of the "Chinese Specials." The older crude movement which was always present in the 99-cent watches seems to be disappearing. Even the Jaragars and Fuyates are beginning to use what I term this "middle grade" movement. The older crude standard movement usually had a huge balance wheel (probably to have enough inertia to bleed power through the gritty movement), and a Red Star stamped into the rotor. The old movement's rotor also appeared to have three "rivet" indentations at both ends and the middle. This cheapo movement isn't as prevalent on eBay as it once was, but I still see auctions which use it. Many/most of the current Chinese offerings have a transparent back. 

The movement being used now is a marked improvement. It's smooth, it hacks, it keeps good time and it actually autowinds on the arm.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

mnpd said:


> I picked up a few more of the "Chinese Specials." The older crude movement which was always present in the 99-cent watches seems to be disappearing. Even the Jaragars and Fuyates are beginning to use what I term this "middle grade" movement. The older crude standard movement usually had a huge balance wheel (probably to have enough inertia to bleed power through the gritty movement), and a Red Star stamped into the rotor. The old movement's rotor also appeared to have three "rivet" indentations at both ends and the middle. This cheapo movement isn't as prevalent on eBay as it once was, but I still see auctions which use it. Many/most of the current Chinese offerings have a transparent back.
> 
> The movement being used now is a marked improvement. It's smooth, it hacks, it keeps good time and it actually autowinds on the arm.


The large balanceis a typical feature of the Chinese Standard movement and many other older movement designs. These days small balances are very much in fashion. The large balance is in no way a specific compensation for poor manufacturing.


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## chuckroast (May 26, 2011)

Good information!


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

I'd still bet that with a balance wheel of smaller mass and a correspondingly smaller and less powerful hairspring, those sandpaper rough 99-cent Chinese movements wouldn't strike the first beat.


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## Pawl_Buster (Mar 12, 2007)

mnpd said:


> I'd still bet that with a balance wheel of smaller mass and a correspondingly smaller and less powerful hairspring, those sandpaper rough 99-cent Chinese movements wouldn't strike the first beat.


The same could be said about a lot of those Swiss pin lever movements that flooded the market after WWII.

Unfortunately, the Chinese manufacturers don't seem to wnat to waste anyting so the rejects and culls get sold off to the highest bidder and they appear in fakes mushroom branded watches on ePrey.

But you should be careful not to lump all Chinese movements into the same basket as there are more than enough that can and do hold their own with the Japanese and the Swiss


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Pawl_Buster said:


> The same could be said about a lot of those Swiss pin lever movements that flooded the market after WWII.


I think the problem that we are encountering currently with Tongji movements is that they were not _designed_ as low grade movements as were those Swiss generics like the BFG 866, EB 8800 and ES 55, or the East German Ruhla 24; designs so rough that they could be thrown together and still tick. Sure there were simplified, flat-plate Tongji variants developed in Dandong and elsewhere, but those are not the versions that continue to be made. In fact the DG28 et al are more optimised for low cost assembly than the Tongji. So with some (definitely _not_ all) Tongji movements, we seem to have a mid-grade design manufactured on decades-old tooling and assembled as if it were a 1970s Swiss disposable. It's a recipe for problems.

None of which should detract from those better Tongji movements such as Shanghai's mildly revised version, as used by Perpetual, and PTS-Liaocheng's more heavily revised version, as used in various lesser brands. Nor should it tar the reputation of the great vintage Tongjis e.g. Shanghai SS7, Beijing SZB-1C.

The difficulty is for the unwary to be able to tell the difference. In the last couple of years we've seem a lot of cheap Tongji automatics being used by the bottom echelon of Guangdong-based brands, and it seems that the more they proliferate, the poorer the average quality. I suspect that there are one or two surviving 'old firms', as yet unidentified on this forum, who are feeding this market, besides the main player, Liaoning Watch Factory. In addition to this, the occasional mix and match of parts (e.g. skeleton base movement with solid auto module, or vice versa) suggest that at least some of these movements are being asembled and finished by factories separate from the original manufacturers i.e. the south of China is becoming more like the Switzerland of old.


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## James Haury (Apr 10, 2008)

mnpd said:


> I grabbed a few quick shots of this AK Homme I've talked about. Not great quality photos... hope they are of some use.
> View attachment 424827
> View attachment 424828
> View attachment 424829


That looks like my CJIABA from DX it also winds easily and keeps good time.The dial color is different(mine is black) and the brand name but otherwise they are identical.


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

I'm still buying these Chinese mechanicals... and it's still by far the cheapest hobby I've had! 

I've ordered a few SOKI's to see what they have in them, and of course more AK Hommes. None of the AK's seem to have that rock-bottom Chicom standard of the earlier watches I picked up when I first started; all the AK's seem to have the better movement(s).

Here's a rather odd addition to my collection. Chinese watches are big, but this one is a collossal, measuring over two-inches in diameter. It feels like wearing an alarm clock, and my son calls it a "rapper's watch minus the diamonds." I took a few shots of the movement which is really shrunken inside the huge case. But, this movement hacks, is surprisingly accurate, and it winds nicely on the arm without having to be wound manually like the cheaper Chinese "autos".

Well... I can't seem to upload any pics right now. I'll try again in a following message.


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)




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## James Haury (Apr 10, 2008)

Is your large watch something like this --SKU 47778-----at deal extreme.


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

No, I don't recall having dealt with Deal Extreme. I usually use my favorite mainland Chinese eBay seller. By favorite I only mean they deliver reliably; it has nothing to do with watch quality because I've really got some hummers in the past.


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## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

mnpd,

At another old thread I mentioned that, by using these "multi-function" movements in large cases, the sub-dials look puckered-up, crowded in the middle. Thanks for the movement picture that shows how the pushers are extended to reach the movement.


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

Seele,

Yes, the large Chinese watches do have that puckered, crowded look. I don't know why they make the watches so large, considering that the movements are not. I really can't explain why they would make this behemoth, which just about completely covers the width of my wrist. I do have to admit that I don't need reading glasses on these 60-year old eyes to tell time.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

Well, we'll see how they look on the inside....

Stay tuned.


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## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

mnpd,

I feel sure that they want to get into that big watch, and yet with sub-dials to have that "high-end" look. Most of their customers - meaning the majority of people around - would not be able to tell the difference anyway...


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

Yep, I just ordered a couple of these for $18 each which includes shipping. The brand name is Fuyate, which a year ago would have contained that awful standard movement in it, the best of which wouldn't even autowind. I can't see the movement on these because the back is solid, but can tell from the small balance wheel and he subdials that it isn't the Movement from Hell. I'll try to post some innards photos once they arrive.

I also get a kick out of the "certified chronometer" printed on the lower subdial. Wonder if I'll get a COSC certificate? LOL


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## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

mnpd,

"Fuyate" is one of the eBay brands who appears to be most boastful, like putting Swiss Made on the dial and marked their casebacks "Longines" etc.


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## drmosh (May 22, 2011)

my large AK-Homme seems to have the biggest power reserve out of all my automatics... Omega, Orient, Swatch...


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

mnpd said:


> Yep, I just ordered a couple of these for $18 each which includes shipping. The brand name is Fuyate, which a year ago would have contained that awful standard movement in it, the best of which wouldn't even autowind. I can't see the movement on these because the back is solid, but can tell from the small balance wheel and he subdials that it isn't the Movement from Hell. I'll try to post some innards photos once they arrive.


You may be in for a surprise. The only open-heart-at-9 that I know if is based on the Standard movement. I don't know who made this one, but I can say that the shockproof device is not the sort used by Liaoning, who make many of the Standards-with-complications. But it's the same arrangement as the Liaoning version, with the smaller sized balance relocated to the front. I recall an example of an open-heart from one of the bottom tier brands posted here a year or so ago that appeared to have been assembled new it would seem with parts from several different movements, so I will be very interested by any movement photos that you can post when it arrives.



> I also get a kick out of the "certified chronometer" printed on the lower subdial. Wonder if I'll get a COSC certificate? LOL


not to mention the '1/10th of second' day/night indicator :roll:


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

mnpd said:


> I also get a kick out of the "certified chronometer" printed on the lower subdial. Wonder if I'll get a COSC certificate?


All COSC watches are chronometers, *but all chronometers are not COSC* certified.

The *Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres* is a _Swiss_ organization that certifies _Swiss _movements for use in Swiss watches. If other countries feel the need to manufacture "certified chronometers" they will have to set up there own testing institution to do so, For a short while the Japanese had the Japanese Chronometer Approval Organization for a short while and Germany has Glashütte.

It is possible (but extremely unlikely) that China has its own chronometer testing authority issuing chronometers certificates left and right....


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

Got in a couple more Chinese brands today.... SOKI and GOER. Sadly, both my samples use the crude Chinese Standard "auto" movement. Worse, the SOKI auction showed that the watch had the much higher quality SP16 (?) movement inside; visible thru the transparent back. But, when that watch arrived it too had the may-work Chinese Standard inside. It's a first that I didn't get the movement in a Chinese watch which was shown in the auction. No biggie however, I only mention it since the better movement has started appearing in the watches I buy. A year or less ago you could only get the rock-bottom standard in watches of this price.

Anyway, for those who may want to know... it's thumbs down on SOKI and GOER, at least from my experience.


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## drmosh (May 22, 2011)

mnpd said:


>


It looks suspiciously like:


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## ej0rge (Jan 13, 2011)

mnpd said:


> Got in a couple more Chinese brands today.... SOKI and GOER. Sadly, both my samples use the crude Chinese Standard "auto" movement. Worse, the SOKI auction showed that the watch had the much higher quality SP16 (?) movement inside; visible thru the transparent back. But, when that watch arrived it too had the may-work Chinese Standard inside. It's a first that I didn't get the movement in a Chinese watch which was shown in the auction. No biggie however, I only mention it since the better movement has started appearing in the watches I buy. A year or less ago you could only get the rock-bottom standard in watches of this price.
> 
> Anyway, for those who may want to know... it's thumbs down on SOKI and GOER, at least from my experience.


 GOER is well known here, particularly their strange habit of putting two second hands on a watch.


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

Pawl_Buster said:


> Slimey shysters took all my info then e-mail me to say they won't give me an account :-|
> 
> Their name is now mud in my eyes :-(
> 
> Maybe I'll get them shut down for dishonest gathering of marketing information!


Yeah, me too. The information gathering is a setup... unless you are a "pro" dealer, they don't want your money even though the minimum order is only $20. If they want hobbyists, they should click you out of the system after making that the first question. Instead, they get every bit of information but your underwear size before denying you.

Irritates me too. I hope they crash in the current economy. They might even wish they had some of that lowlife hobbyist money.


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

I've got several more AK Hommes in. I took a couple of not-so-great shots of one of the recent direct-buys from China. This one came with a solid steel back, which I replaced with a see-thru from one of the cheaper "no-workie" watches I've got in the box.

The AK Homme is a big cut above the bottom-grade watches I've received so many of. It cost a couple more dollars than the rock bottom Jaragars, SOKI's, etc., but well worth it. Even so, it's still a what, $15-20 watch? The movement still appears to be a Standard, but it's been reworked with the most obvious change a much smaller balance wheel. The parts on the movement are much better finished than the el-cheapos, the Hommes actually auto-wind on my wrist, and the movement hacks. All the AK Hommes seem to have this better movement, and all the Hommes work just fine out of the box. With the bottom-grade Chinese watches 20-25% of those I received could not be used to keep time for a variety of problems. The Hommes are much less likely to need regulator adjustment.

This particular watch in the photos gains 2-3 seconds a day, and when I take it off at night I place it crown-down which slows the movement on this particular model. It doesn't quite make up for the gain, but after 6 days I am only +5 seconds different from the WWV radio time standard I set it for.

Despite all the Chinese watches I've bought, it's still by far the cheapest hobby I've ever been into (the others are amateur radio and astronomy). The cost is almost nothing.  If anyone wants an inexpensive Chinese watch which just might keep killer time, skip the dollar varieties and get an AK Homme. If I do get a lemon, I'll post it. The fit, finish and timekeeping of these watches compare favorably to my Alpha collection, but at a fraction of the Alpha's cost.


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## Bjorn11 (Jul 7, 2011)

Got mine:

















Keeps time although the rubber wristband is not very good. The leather ones are better. Like it


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## jald (Jul 20, 2011)

Nice watch, I´ve got the mine in transit.

This one:

‪Montre automatique AK‬‏ - YouTube


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## mnpd (Jul 3, 2009)

Nice looking watches. I have the same feeling about the rubber bands. The problem I've run into is the buckle popping off. I'd make sure that the buckle is crimped well into the band... it doesn't pass completely through the band opening.


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## Auroch (Jul 17, 2011)

I find that I've got russian and chinese watches that run as well as my seiko and orient watches ... but I also have had chinese watches that are complete garbage - never had that problem with a seiko or orient!



arktika1148 said:


> There seems to be little in the way of buying proper Chinese watches of interest compared to the Russian stuff [/B] *:-( Either that or i am looking in the wrong places :think:*


Try usseagull.

Have to agree on solid , bullet-proof Russkies ,and some of the best I've ever had, but the better Chinese are worth checking out.

I got a Seagull 55 which is one of my all time favorites; Parnis open-heart well made (noisey rotor even I can hear); a germasian stunner ; and an NOS Shangai from a ebay store in China , a pain to date set but a little stunner .
There are some NOS Seagull ST5's on ebay I've got my eye on , but a major wish-list is a BaiHai from Beijing.[/QUOTE]


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## kingdavecako (Jun 6, 2011)

jald said:


> Nice watch, I´ve got the mine in transit.
> 
> This one:
> 
> ‪Montre automatique AK‬‏ - YouTube


Really. Have you received it yet? What do you have to say about it? I'm about ready to drop the hammer on either that one, or the Kronen and Sohne variant, however I'm trying to find out if the extra 10 bucks or so is worth it for the AK.


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