# Help please with 1016 Explorer homage



## Shambles

Does anyone know if the 28mm MKii 3-6-9 Milsub dial will fit in a Sandoz Singapore Explorer?

I want to create a 1016 Explorer homage. There are two great threads here about similar mods - to a Titoni Spacemaster and, of course, the legendary Omlex - and I've heard about people modding the Zeno Explorer, but has anyone pulled apart a Sandoz like this one?










(I prefer the Singapore over the Hong Kong as it appears to have a slightly larger, screw-down crown and a lug size without decimal places.)

Any idea about the dial size? And how easy is it to get a domed acrylic crystal for this size watch? (And am I crazy to want to replace the sapphire rather than just removing the cylops?)

Or can anyone suggest a more suitable 'host' watch? Essentially I'm looking for a 36mm diameter case with 19-20mm lugs and an ETA movement. . .

FYI, I just bought, and then returned, a vintage Titoni Spacemaster (turned out to use a fake Rolex case, among other issues). . . I'm guessing that buying a used new watch is going to be cheaper and easier.


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## TheDude

Anything wrong with the MkII Vantage (3916)? That's Bill's 1016 Homage. It's 39mm, but I doubt you could find fault with it. I'm wearing mine right now.


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## Shambles

I nearly mentioned the Vantage in my original post, but I didn't want to sound critical of our host.

While the Vantage is the closest production watch to what I'm looking for, I personally feel that it is too large. Yes, I know I'm in a minority of one here, but. . . well, I'm looking for a 36mm watch. (Personally, I feel that a 39mm watch with a 20mm lug does not have that classic Explorer shape, and that such a simple dial should be kept small.) I also would prefer a no-date dial (again, in a minority of one) and a domed acrylic crystal. And, while I'm being honest, a Vantage is more than I'm looking to spend right now.

To show you where I'm coming from, here is a shot of my new favourite, an HMT pilot:



It's a 35mm diameter watch - but because it's all dial, it doesn't wear small. And here's a wrist shot, to prove it:



Apologies for going off topic here, with a non-Mkii watch. . . I'm just trying to illustrate my point (even if it's just that I've got skinny wrists).

Now, I certainly did _not_ come here to trash Mr. Yao or his watches. I really appreciate Bill's position - which is similar to another watchmaker I respect, Eddie Platts at Timefactors - of making watches that are inspired by the original, but with improved specs, and subtle changes. A MKii watch is not a copy. I've read people on Rolex forums saying that the Vantage is the watch that Rolex should have made. . . Larger, and with a date!


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## TheDude

Those are all valid points you make backing up your search criteria. One last thing though, have you seen a Vantage in person and tried it on?


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## Quartersawn

I feel the OP's pain. I like the Vantage but felt it might be too big. I have not tried one on but I did try on a 39mm Railmaster, which is a very similar watch. I thought it was a bit too big.

I absolutely LOVE the LRRP but I am not going to buy a 42mm watch. Had it been offered at 39mm or 40mm I would have bought both explorer and milsub variations. I also quite like the new Precista PRS-3 but it too is 42mm so it is not an option. My wrists are not tiny, at 7.4" they are probably average, I just don't like a watch larger than 40mm. On my wrist anything larger is not as comfortable and looks out of proportion.

Having said that I am in for a Kingston, I think it will be the perfect size for me.


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## 2manywatchez

Shambles said:


> Yes, I know I'm in a minority of one here, but. . . well, I'm looking for a 36mm watch. (Personally, I feel that a 39mm watch with a 20mm lug does not have that classic Explorer shape, and that such a simple dial should be kept small.)


+1

I got your back on this one. I just picked up an Explorer homage at 36mm specifically to see if it would be enough watch for me. With relatively small wrists, it's a perfect proportion, particularly on a 20mm NATO.

I do applaud the 39mm effort, however. Some have tried to reproduce the look at 40mm plus. This, to me, is mashing up the vintage appeal of the classic Explorer and the modern-day general perception that anything below 40mm is not "manly". 39mm seems a very good compromise between the two positions.


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## colinman.77

I am with you. I would love to see a quality 36mm explorer homage done, with an acrylic crystal and real water resistance. The only thing I need different is a date function.
I owned a Vantage for a while. It was great on the bracelet, but it didn't look right on a strap. The lugs are a little too blunt compared to the original.
Have you looked for a Zeno Explorer? It is exactly what you are looking for. They show up on ebay from time to time.
Or you could wait for the Precista Vanguard, if that ever gets made.
Good luck!


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## Shambles

TheDude said:


> Those are all valid points you make backing up your search criteria. One last thing though, have you seen a Vantage in person and tried it on?


I've got to hold my hand up and admit that no, I haven't worn a Vantage.

Earlier this year I spent some time in a Rolex & Omega dealer in Vancouver - I thought I'd get shown the door for wasting their time, but the staff there couldn't have been nicer. I had a long conversation about watches, and the salesperson was quite insistant that I tried on a Rolex Explorer i. Well. . . I bonded with it. It felt right on me. Apart from the squared numerals and the price tag, that is. Had it been a vintage 1016, I'd have had a huge dilemma.

In all honesty, the Vantage was on my _must-have_ list until I tried on the 36mm Rolex. Then I thought the MKii might be too big, at 39mm. . .

Since then, I've been searching for an affordable 1016-style watch. I've considered the Orient Star Explorer (WZ0091), but it's too dressy. . . and don't think I could bring myself to wear an Alpha. Titoni Airmasters are another I've thought about. . . but we're back to the square numbers. (Yeah. . . the HMT I posted above has the squarest numerals of any. . . go figure!) So I was figuring that a Sandoz, with a MKii dial, would be the perfect compromise. But I need to know if it's even possible.

Of course, most people reading this will mutter something about OCD and getting hung up about 3mm. . .

EDIT: to answer other questions, yes, I've also thought about the Zeno Explorer. The ones that come up on eBay tend to be Zeno-USA, which are supposedly poorer quality than the original (anyway, there is a website that sell's them cheaper, at around $70. . . just google Zeno Explorer and you'll see it). I did see an ETA Zeno come up for sale on one of the forums a few months ago. It was hugely expensive, and sold in a heartbeat. And, re: the Vanguard, I'm not sure if I could live with the 22mm bracelet. (Picky, aren't I?)


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## Deldog

Hope your project works out. I'm sure Bill or Obie will be able to answer your question about the dial. 

I'm in the same boat as you are. I tried to go with a Zeno-USA, but it was of pretty poor quality. I ended up snagging a Vantage off of the sales forum for a great price and rarely take it off. 

Good luck, Shambles. Hope it works out. ... Deldog


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## TheDude

Shambles said:


> I've got to hold my hand up and admit that no, I haven't worn a Vantage.


I'd suggest that the undecided try them on. Most watchmakers make really clunky "larger" watches. Bill does not. Rolex seems rather good at this too - the closest thing they have to a larger Explorer is the 40mm Milgauss, and it is a very small wearing watch - it seems quite small on the wrist for a 40mm timepiece.


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## Shambles

Dude. . . you are such a bad influence!

(In the best possible way of course.)


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## Dr. Robert

I like Explorer watches.............a lot. I have a couple of "homages" the MKII Vantage is most excellent, the Zeno(Miyota movt.) is very good, not shoddy keeps very good time, holds the wind power long, I got NOS off Ebay cheap! I also have the Orient Star, & the Alpha, a rare Citizen Campanola...................I like 'em all!


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## Shambles

Dr. Robert, you are _also_ a bad influence.

Thank you. Plenty of food for thought there.

Hmm. . . I'm starting to warm to the Zeno. Somehow, I prefer the Mkii dial (is it just me, or do the minute marks on the Zeno seem a little large?)


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## sasquatch

Wow a thread I can really agree with...
I love the design of the MkII watches, the LRRP and the Vantage being standouts, but 42mm and 39mm are just too big for me. I would gladly pay up for more 'classic' sized watched, as this bigger is better fad isn't for me. But nowadays a decent smaller watch is rare, the Rolex Explorer and the midsize Railmaster being the few expensive options. Such is life...


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## sasquatch

Wow a thread I can really agree with...
I love the design of the MkII watches, the LRRP being a standout, but 42mm is just too big for me. I would gladly pay up if it was just a couple mm smaller. But nowadays a decent smaller watch is rare, the Rolex Explorer and the midsize Railmaster being the few expensive options. Such is life...


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## tony stromdahl

Shambles said:


> Does anyone know if the 28mm MKii 3-6-9 Milsub dial will fit in a Sandoz Singapore Explorer?
> 
> I want to create a 1016 Explorer homage. There are two great threads here about similar mods - to a Titoni Spacemaster and, of course, the legendary Omlex - and I've heard about people modding the Zeno Explorer, but has anyone pulled apart a Sandoz like this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I prefer the Singapore over the Hong Kong as it appears to have a slightly larger, screw-down crown and a lug size without decimal places.)
> 
> Any idea about the dial size? And how easy is it to get a domed acrylic crystal for this size watch? (And am I crazy to want to replace the sapphire rather than just removing the cylops?)
> 
> Or can anyone suggest a more suitable 'host' watch? Essentially I'm looking for a 36mm diameter case with 19-20mm lugs and an ETA movement. . .
> 
> FYI, I just bought, and then returned, a vintage Titoni Spacemaster (turned out to use a fake Rolex case, among other issues). . . I'm guessing that buying a used new watch is going to be cheaper and easier.


 no they will now fit even if they are the same mm in length because the points on the back of the dials are made to fit a spicifc movement unles you want you dial floating around and not being centered


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## tony stromdahl

no they will now fit even if they are the same mm in length because the points on the back of the dials are made to fit a spicifc movement unles you want you dial floating around and not being centered on the movement


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## Shambles

I was under the impression that the Sandoz Singapore Explorer is an ETA 2824-2, so I would have thought the MKii dial feet would be in the right place. (At least, the PMWF sales page that seems to be the only place offering Sandoz Singapore states it's a 2824-2.)

By the way, I've been doing some online stalking. . . emailing anyone that has ever posted about Sandoz Explorer mods. I had an interesting email exchange with someone who attempted to mod a _Hong Kong_ Sandoz Explorer by adding a "date" dial. . . he reported that, while the dial fitted, Sandoz HK had removed the "date module" from the 2836-2 movement in that model. Recognizing that this would not be an issue for me, he still suggested I held out for a 2824 Zeno Explorer.

I'm getting the idea that no-one has done this mod before because the Zeno explorer works out cheaper and the Vantage has a great re-sale value.


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## Shambles

Here I am, answering my own post. . . I have two reasons for doing this: to say thank-you to everyone that helped, and to let the other budget 1016-seekers know how I got on.

Most importantly then, are the thank-yous. TheDude showed patience beyond the call of duty - and, in fact, steered me in the right direction. I owe the guy a beer. Actually, a lot of people PM'd me to say that they too are on the lookout for a 36mm watch with a 1016 vibe. I emailed people about their watch mods, and everyone was cool about that. This has really made me feel like part of a community.

So, while I believe that it is _possible_ to mod Sandoz Explorer models, I decided that it wasn't a good use of my time and money. Jack at IWW and Jake B at Dawn of Time both thought it could be done. No disrespect to the modders here, but on reflection, it would have worked out as one expensive fake Rolex.

I collect vintage Seikos. . . so I got a vintage Seiko. This 66-8050 from November 1973, has a 36mm dia. dial (without crown), a wonderfully domed acrylic and, put on a solid-link oyster, really looks the part. (OK, it has an 18mm lug, but that didn't stop me from putting it on a 20mm bracelet.)

It all came to just under $150, including shipping and adjusting.

Anyone wanting to do similar should also check out a vintage Rado Green Horse - which can be found as a 36mm - or 38mm 'King Size,' no-date watch, with very aged lume! (Personally I prefer the Seiko.)

It's probably more like a vintage Air King or Precision, but that's totally cool by me.

 
Seiko 66-8050


Seiko 66-8050 wrist shot









Rolex Precision

And, yes, one day I will own a real and genuine MKii watch.


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## Denizen

interesting...i have quite the opposite opinion.

i find that the milgauss gives the visual impression of wearing slightly larger than what the raw specs (a 40mm case) would indicate. the larger dial on the milgauss (32mm), compared to the smaller dials on the Sub/SD which also are 40mm cases is part of the reason. the same goes in a head-to-head comparison to the Damasko DA36. despite being the same case size and lug-to-lug length, the Milgauss looks bigger.

i find that the current Milgauss to a great representation of what a modern watch should be in terms of size (neither too small nor too large) and aesthethics (it shares the clean dial and ease of legibility which the Exp.1 was noted for).

i think Bill does a nice job with the Vantage in offering an 'updated' Explorer homage and for those looking for something in the original 36mm size, there are still options out there.



TheDude said:


> the 40mm Milgauss, and it is a very small wearing watch - it seems quite small on the wrist for a 40mm timepiece.


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