# Zenith Class Elite--small seconds performance?



## haakon59

Mostly I hear that Zenith watches are excellent performers in real life--accurate and reliable. 

I did hear a comment from one owner of the Class Elite that his watch is a little erratic, even after servicing by Zenith. 

My question is: is the small seconds function on the Class Elite "indirect" on this movement? Some watches with this fuction, like say the Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine Chronograph, have an indirect small seconds and this causes just a little bit of "skipping" occassionally with the small seconds hand, although I understand that normally over 24 hours it evens out and keeps good time. Anyone here know the answer on the Zenith movement used in the Elite?


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## D N Ravenna

*Indirect Seconds>>>*

These are, in a way for watch idiots like me, very cool. Essentially, a movement that is older in design, is modified to run a central seconds hand. There are several ways to do this, but as they are all indirect, there is a possibility for the second hand to 'skip.'

I have an Invicta that has indirect seconds. It will skip, but overall, the time keeping is pretty regular. Somehow, it does not seem to matter over a 24-hr period.

As for the movement in question, I don't think it is an issue. I certainly have come very close at least 5 times in buying one. Just always found something that interested me more.

Regarding your friend. If it is truly erratic, then he may have had a movement that needed some help. :-(

Does not really answer your question, but perhaps gives you a little more info.

Cheers!

Dan


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## Hartmut Richter

I don't know for certain but from the pictures I can see in Ranfft and others on the web, it looks like the Zenith Elite was designed with a small seconds hand - the whell connecting directly with the escapement wheel is at 9:00, not centrally. This seems to be the case for all Elite calibres (670 as well as 680 series) and would mean that the *central* seconds hand is the indirect one.

Anyone out there with more definite info?!

Hartmut Richter


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## haakon59

Hartmut Richter said:


> I don't know for certain but from the pictures I can see in Ranfft and others on the web, it looks like the Zenith Elite was designed with a small seconds hand - the whell connecting directly with the escapement wheel is at 9:00, not centrally. This seems to be the case for all Elite calibres (670 as well as 680 series) and would mean that the *central* seconds hand is the indirect one.
> 
> Anyone out there with more definite info?!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Really? That's interesting if it turns out to be true. I was just generalizing from my experience with some other small second's I know of which are indirect and seem to skip a little. Now that I think about it, I think most of them are ETA movements. Thanks for your response. I wonder then what is causing the skipping of the small seconds hand with my friend's elite then? That was my best guess and he just got his watch back from service. Just one of those things perhaps.


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## Hartmut Richter

If you go to Gisbert Joseph's site under http://shop.joseph-watches.com and search under "Zenith" as a brand and then scroll to find a modern Elite with smalls seconds hand at 9:00 and finally double-click on the small picture on the left with the movement, you will see a Zenith Cal. 650 which is the manual version of the Elite. Here, if you follow the geartrain from the balance to the mainspring, you will see that the gear wheel immediately after the escapement wheel - the one driving the seconds hand - is located at 9:00 which should be proof that the movement was designed with a small second hand. Unless dramatic structural changes were made (which would be tantamount to developing a different calibre), the central seconds version should have an indirect seconds hand. However, I have a feeling that this will not include a primitive spring-held pinion as in early indirect central seconds calibres from the forties - Zenith, the inventors of the direct central seconds system, will have developed something more sophisticated.

Hartmut Richter


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## haakon59

Thank you Harmut, great info.


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