# PAM 422 vs. PAM 441



## p_477 (Feb 15, 2013)

Hi everyone!

I can´t decide between PAM 422 and PAM 441.
PAM 422 is 47 mm, manual winding, Stainless steel.
PAM 441 is 44 mm, self winding, Black Ceramic.
Please give me some advice.
All comments and suggestions are welcome! Thanks!


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## BusyTimmy (Jul 24, 2009)

I can't stand black ceramic Panerai watches and I really don't like them with GMT complications either - seems to ruin the basic aesthetic for me. I'd go 422 simply for those reasons, let alone the fact that it is manual winding, like all Pams should be


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## Dienekes (Dec 22, 2012)

I like em both but I agree simpler is better with Panerai. 422 if you have the wrist to pull it off.


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## mark1958 (Nov 30, 2012)

I own two PAMs 27C and 311. I like the ceramic style. I also love having GMT function. I also prefer to have a date complication. So I would go with the later



Dienekes said:


> I like em both but I agree simpler is better with Panerai. 422 if you have the wrist to pull it off.


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## Likestheshiny (Nov 28, 2011)

I just don't think the black and brown go together that well -- the silver and brown is more attractive, in my opinion. Normally I'd prefer the GMT, overall the prettier watch will always win for me.


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

441 for me,it's lighter and looks different than any other Pams
If the second option is 372,things will be a lot tougher..
I have tried 422,I prefer the less writings and the omission of seconds subdial,though I like the rubber strap and sapphire crystal
Ps: if you're looking for a 47 mm Pam with gold hands,seconds subdial and handwound movt,I'd save a bit more and get the 368 but it's a destro..


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## Sigfortunata (Apr 25, 2013)

BusyTimmy said:


> I can't stand black ceramic Panerai watches and I really don't like them with GMT complications either - seems to ruin the basic aesthetic for me. I'd go 422 simply for those reasons, let alone the fact that it is manual winding, like all Pams should be


DITTO! as a 104 owner I don't think you can beat a stainless steel PAM!


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## mrmattcat78 (May 4, 2013)

i like the PAM 441 , well ceramic watches have been catching my eye lately


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## nathanclarinet (Jan 23, 2012)

441 for me. I think the ceramic looks fantastic and really like the match up with the tan strap. This one is definitely on my want list. Good luck with your decision


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## Satansfist (Jul 20, 2009)

I like the 441...if it didn't have the numbers all round the dial.


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## Genebe (Aug 30, 2011)

you have some very long, sleepless nights ahead of you my friend! Tough choice! (personally, I like the cleaner face of the 422, but at 47mm, that's a very big watch!)


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## btyoung21 (May 3, 2013)

Going for the 422, very nice faux-patina dial + steel = classic.

I own a 111 (so much cheaper), but looking to upgrade to a 422 in the next 2 years or so.

Cheers!


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## phunky_monkey (Dec 9, 2008)

Very tough choice indeed. I love ceramic watches, but the clean dial of the 422 is brilliant, as is the lack of date.

I say try them both and see which sings to you more.


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

p_477 said:


> I can't decide between PAM 422 and PAM 441. PAM 422 is 47 mm, manual winding, Stainless steel. PAM 441 is 44 mm, self winding, Black Ceramic.


422 has a new case, leaner than even the manual-wind 1950 & Luminors, engraved writing, old-skool-style crystal, is only a "9" shy of a >1956 Panerai 6152/1. The 422 has a lean in-house, 3-day hand-wound movement.

The 441 sits much higher on the wrist, has err... 8 numbers too many, a beautiful ceramic case that is unfortunately prone to cracking on hard impacts.

Based on my additional "specs", you can imagine which one I'm leaning towards... :-!


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## enzo panuccio (Jul 14, 2009)

Travelller said:


> 422 has... old-skool-style crystal, is only a "9" shy of a >1956 Panerai 6152/1.


some good points.


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

Felt like posting these pics on this thread,these two are my favorite Pams at the moment..


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## Watch OCD (Dec 14, 2012)

my vote for the 422....its one of the best Pams...beautiful watch front and back....only downside might be size 47mm....if u got the wrist than clear choice.
dont really like ceramic/black watches (especially panerais) Steel is the way to go for me....plus dont like the numerals all around the 441 dial..
good luck hunting


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## p_477 (Feb 15, 2013)

Thanks for all your sugestions and comments!!


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## btyoung21 (May 3, 2013)

p_477,

Have you decided yet? Did you get a chance of trying both watches on?



p_477 said:


> Thanks for all your sugestions and comments!!


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

There's a 422 reserved for yours truly at my local AD...  I'm out of town 'till Sat but when I get back I'm going to make a b-line to the AD!

It's been a while since I've tried a 47mm so I'll have to have another look and if it "fits" *and* the price is right... ;-)


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

Well Serge,we'll wait for that new pickup post (and maybe the lume color comparison between the hands and the dial) and the great photos from you


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

Synequano said:


> Felt like posting these pics on this thread,these two are my favorite Pams at the moment..


thanks for the photos.. i'm Surprised that both Watches look about the Same Diameter .!!! in fact the 441 looks a bit Bigger than the 372 .!! i'm confused.


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

both are AWESOME .but if had to pick Only One ? it'd be the 422


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

Tony A.H said:


> thanks for the photos.. i'm Surprised that both Watches look about the Same Diameter .!!! in fact the 441 looks a bit Bigger than the 372 .!! i'm confused.


Just realized that thing when you point it out,but 372 felt bigger than 441 on my wrist,but 372 felt more natural because the case is thinner

441 on the contrary,looks smaller because it is all black,and it felt lighter because of the ceramic + Ti combo but the thickness can be annoying..went to try on a couple of short sleeved shirt yesterday and my 441 always stuck on the sleeve >.<

If you like both,try to get both at some point,personally I'll go 441 because it's more expensive thus price increase will make this watch even further from my budget..

Here's my analysis on both watches:

372/422 are classic model and represents the historical model nicely with a twist in case design (I heard they completely redesign the luminor case for these 47 mm trio),the in house movement is a plus,and the simplicity of the number and lines on the dial makes it one of the great keeper

441 on the other hand,represents the technological advancements by Pam,ceramic case (including the CG and lever) and Ti caseback represents the modern materials. The numeric sandwich dial adds modenity and the 12 hrs GMT complication with quick set main hour hand is useful if you travel a lot,I also like the black case that makes this watch looks like plastic watch,useful if you happen to be in the wrong side of town,where flashy watch can get you mugged..

Yup,I'm an enabler


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks for your Reply.

I have No Doubt that the 372 would Look/Wear Bigger..

also Agree when a Case is All Black. Watches look Smaller than what they Actually are.
I always think that Many Ladies like to Wear Black Dresses cause it Makes them Look Slimmer (Hope Only Men are reading this Post ).

I do have the 372 and I LOVE it.. you are Right. the Case is in fact a little Different from the 1950 Case. ( someday i'll cake a Comparison Shot of both side by side).

i also Love the Modern Ceramic Watches. but if i were to pick one up? it would me the New Submersible 508. cause it's a 47mm and love wearing that Size.:-!

Cheers


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

Hey Tony,the only thing that make me somewhat reluctant to get the 508 (being an LE and all) is the bezel,the chunky all ceramic diver bezel kinda scares me because I owned 2 Pams with bezel (24 and 92) and I often hit the bezel on doorframe,table and some other object,I'm afraid if I buy the 508,I may hit some object quite hard and break the ceramic bezel (well yes,ceramic is scratch resistant,but it might break or chip on impact) and that's the risk I try to reduce by getting the 441 

After all these Pams in my stable,I still prefer the standard plain bezel as opposed to diver bezel


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## enzo panuccio (Jul 14, 2009)

Tony A.H said:


> thanks for the photos.. i'm Surprised that both Watches look about the Same Diameter .!!! in fact the 441 looks a bit Bigger than the 372 .!! i'm confused.


Tony, it's because of the crystal shape.
the 422 has a heavily domed crystal which always make the watches appear (2 dimensionally) smaller than the lesser (near flat) domed glass of the 441.

have a look at the photo below and you can see the effect.
Panerai 312 on left (same case/crystal as 441), 233 middle, 270 on the right.
Pam 312's looks 2mm bigger than 233's and 270's.









_*photo borrowed from risti

*roger*_


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## koda240 (May 17, 2012)

Damn, thats a tough decision. I love that ceramic but feel it's a piece you could get bored of after awhile. The other will be classic for years.


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

As an enabler,I think I will recommend Pam 422 and 292 duo,both looks almost the same yet are different,you can also use the same strap for both watches too










292 with Panatime mustang with black stitching that I got for $10.5 before shipping in comparison with 441 with OEM asso,looks quite close right?


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

Great Shot

never thought a Plexi can play a big roll in the overall Size of the Watch . visually.:think:
but to come and think of it ? Now I realized that the Panerai I have with Plexi and Sapphire Crystals do Appear Different in Diameter .! I think you are Right about that. . especially if you compare the 232 with 249. the Difference in Size is very Obvious.

Cheers


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

enzo panuccio said:


> ...the 422 has a heavily domed crystal...


Hey Roger, you got the right idea but the 372/422/423 have unique crystals that rise vertically (not domed like the 233 & kin):








=OT=



Synequano said:


> Well Serge,we'll wait for that new pickup post (and maybe the lume color comparison between the hands and the dial) and the great photos from you


Sorry, not going to happen... :-( Went to my AD today to try on the *422* and it didn't fly. What I didn't mention is that I've been down with a stomach bug which has cost me ~4Kg easily. Well this certainly didn't help the look of the 422 on my now-scrawny wrists... . I know it's a temporary situation but it's not possible for me to plop down _€7~8K_ for something that doesn't look right from the very moment I try it on in the AD. It's not an SE so there will be more opportunities to give the 422 another go. One other surprise was the weight - heavier than my *233*. This may not come as a surprise as the 422 is 47mm and the 233 44mm, but the 422's sapphire crystal really adds to the total weight - something that is _pleasantly lacking_ from the *372*... b-) I like my watches with some heft to them, but there is such a thing as overdoing it... ;-)

In the meantime, I asked them to call me the second a *368* comes in. Chances are slim, but they had one in their show-window just last autumn... *fingers crossed* |>


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

Wow,368 is a beauty,thinking about getting it to round up my collection,but in the meantime I wanna slow down for a bit,and maybe try to get a Seiko darth tuna for a change..but for sure I will eventually get one of the 8 days into my collection


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