# What watch companies still make their own movements?



## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

*What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

In casual conversation with several watch enthusiasts, I've heard that today there far fewer watch brands that make their own movements (called a manufactory) than a few decades ago. For instance, Omega used to but now they use ETA movements exclusively and in some cases modify the ETA movement (as with the Valjoux 7750). IWC modifies ETA movements for their watches as well.

ETA is part of the Swatch Group and practically monopolizes the Swiss watch movement scene these days. It's really quite amazing how many watch companies use their movements. Because of that, I'll leave off the "Swatch" brand.

Of course, just because a watch company uses a 3rd party movement, it doesn't mean their watches are less desirable. On the contrary, some highly innovative movements have been produced over the years--why not put a time proven movement in a beautifully handcrafted quality watch casing? Still... it's kind of interesting to know who is doing what these days.

So, I'd like to put together a list of watch companies here who make their own mechanical movements or modify existing ones, for reference. If people post what they know, I'll add it to this posting (as it appears I'm allowed to keep editing this first post). This is of course assuming it hasn't been done before on WatchUSeek... I couldn't find one in my searches.

So far the list is:

A. Lange & Söhne
Audemars Piguet
Ball Watch Co+ (ETA)
Badollet
Blancpain
Breguet
Breitling+ (ETA, Valjoux)
Bvlgari
Carl F. Bucherer
Chopard* (ETA)
Christophe Claret
Citizen/Miyota
Clerc
Cvstos
DeBethune* (Venus)
DeGrisogono
Dornbluth & Sohn
Ebel+ (ETA)
Eberhard+ (ETA, Valjoux)
Eterna (3030, new)
FP Journe
Franc Vila
Frederique Constant* 
Gerald Genta
Gevril
Glashütte Original
Girard-Perregaux
Grovana Revue Thommen
H. Moser & Cie (HMC 321.503)
Hautlence
HMT
IWC* (ETA, Valjoux)
Jaeger-LeCoultre [JLC]
Longines+ (ETA)
Maktime
Maurice Lacroix* (?)
Mille
Nomos (Tangomat, cal. ZETA)
Omega+ (ETA, Valjoux)
Orient
Panerai* (P.2002, ETA, JLC)
Patek Philippe
Poljot+ (ETA)
Prim
Quinting
RGM* (ETA, Unitas)
Rolex
SeaGull 
Seiko/Orient
Sinn+ (ETA, Valjoux)
Sjoo Sandstrom
TAG Heuer* (Valjoux; Mikrograph in-house)
Ulysse Nardi* (ETA)
Urwerk
Vacheron & Constantin
Villemont* (FP Journe)
Vostok
Vulcain
Wempe
Wyler* (Valjoux)
Zarja
Zenith

Legend
*** : some movements are made in-house.
*+* : all movements are outsourced (e.g. ETA) but some are modified in-house
_ : those not marked either make all of their own movements or outsource a minority

*NOTE:* 
Please let me know if anything is incorrect, or what names need an annotation. Again, I am no watch expert. Please forgive any mistakes--I'm very open to making corrections. I'm a novice watch hobbyist who became curious about watch movement manufacturers, didn't see any comprehensive list around, so I started this as a project. Thanks!

*NOTE 2:*
I realize India, Russia, and China have plenty of their own watch companies who make their own movements. It would probably be too daunting to add all of them. I'd prefer to keep it minimized to the top 1-3 companies.

*Addendum*:
As the list has grown, I've also started becoming more aware of the growing cottage industry of mechanical watch movements. It's really amazing how a field already saturated with fine quality movements has people still desiring to do things "their own way." I'm more of the mind that once something is done extremely well, why bother re-inventing it on an endeavor that may very likely fail to get much revenue traction? Anyway, I do want to avoid creating an "all encompassing list" of every single watch movement maker no matter the size, because it'll always be out of date. I'm more interested in a list that captures movement makers of above average stature, having strong public prominence either now or in the past. I don't know if there's any measurable benchmark to create a dividing line. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for your attention.


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## obie (Feb 9, 2006)

so where did you get your information? only 6 movement makers? so if rolex doesn't make movements, who makes them?


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## TheOptionMaster (Feb 3, 2008)

Check out this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Group

The Swatch Group owns a lot of watch brands.


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## watch-man7777 (Feb 17, 2007)

Did you just say Ball makes their own movements? :-d

They use ETA just like everyone else.

Most of your information is very contradictory. You have a lot of learning to do young Jedi.


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2008)

some more

A. Lange & Söhne
Glashütte Original
Chopard
Rolex
Wempe
PP
Vacheron & Constantin
Blancpain
Frederique Constant (not all)
Nomos (Tangomat, cal. ZETA)
AP
Breguet
Eterna (see their new 3030)
GP
JLC
H. Moser & Cie (see their HMC 321.503)
UN
Omega
Panerai (P.2002)
Seiko


and a lot more.


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## NEG (Aug 11, 2006)

Rolex do make their own movements. Back in 1912 a contract was signed with Aegler, the company supplying movements to Rolex, then in 1915 Aegler became Aegler AS, Fabrique de Montres Rolex. 1919 saw Hermann Aegler become a co-director of Rolex. Both companies aquired shares in each other, effectively making them one company but two legally separate entities. 

Roll forward to 2004 and the Rolex companies merged into one with new facilities in Geneva and Bienne, everything is made in-house, they even have foundries for gold alloy production.


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## colt (Aug 8, 2007)

- Orient
- Vostok


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2008)

Not to forget Poljot


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## CCCP (Jul 1, 2006)

And SeaGull (plus some other Chinese movement makers)


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## aliasrichmond (Dec 9, 2007)

Prim
Grovana Revue Thommen


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## Dieselgeek (Sep 27, 2007)

Does Omega make it's own movement? Or is it made by one of the companies that swatch group owns?


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## LTH (Feb 20, 2007)

Citizen (Miyota)


Casio also use inhouse movements but it's quartz


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## Daddel Virks (Feb 13, 2006)

The all new Universal Geneve with the new microtor.

Cheers,

Daddel.


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## obie (Feb 9, 2006)

I'm not sure what omega does, or is going to do as far as there movements.I do know they work and work very well every day.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

:think: Yep, Piaget get no respect on watch forums, I'll toss in Parmigiani and
Vincent Calabrese into the pot also.


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## Watch Watcher (Jul 12, 2007)

Dieselgeek said:


> Does Omega make it's own movement? Or is it made by one of the companies that swatch group owns?


They're mostly made by ETA, which is indeed part of the Swatch group, and modified. However, they recently introduced the Calibre 8500/8501 movements, which are manufactured entirely in house, in the DeVille Hour Vision.

Tom


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## snorkeler (Sep 17, 2006)

Watch Watcher said:


> ...However, they recently introduced the Calibre 8500/8501 movements, which are manufactured entirely in house, in the DeVille Hour Vision....


Actully the 8500 was designed and manufactured exclusively for Omega by ETA. Kinda like a GM Northstar engine is only used by Cadillac.


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## Watch Watcher (Jul 12, 2007)

Really? In that case Omega are being rather naughty:

http://www.omega.ch/index.php?id=81&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=779&tx_ttnews[backPid]=74&cHash=724dd3860d

Tom


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## snorkeler (Sep 17, 2006)

Pure marketing fluff. No one questions the design is by ETA. Even the Omega forum experts admit, "down the road, Omega will have it's own manufacturing" (meaning Omega doesn't manufacture right now and there's no schedule to make it independant). For now, it's just a tarted up ETA movement. IMHO, that's a good thing. I'd rather have the hundreds of man-year experience ETA has in my watch's movement rather than some newbie's dream of what works. In-house is over-rated (IMHO).


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## Nabco (Nov 9, 2007)

Just an observation, if Swatch owns Omega and Swatch also owns ETA wouldn't that mean that Omega makes their own movements since they are both owned by Swatch?


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## FrogmanFreak (Aug 13, 2007)

Not all watch manufacturers make their own movements entirely. Part of each watch manufacturer has their lineup that use their own in-house movements and other watches within their lineup are borrowed from other outsourced movements, including ETA (now belonging to the Swatch group). Valjoux and ETA are now part of the Swatch group. The Swatch group also includes Omega, Glashütte Original, Breguet, Blancpain, Hamilton.

The key difference between an in-house movement and an outsourced one is that in-house movements are designed and produced almost entirely by the manufacturer or the watch maker themselves, whilst outsourced movements being brought into the watch company, fundamentally are generic movements such as the valjoux 7750 movement, but having been finished extensively or reworked with parts replaced with better quality replacements.

IWC has notedly used outsourced movements including the Valjoux 7750, but yet part of the IWC lineup also includes their own in-house movement, such as the IWC Portuguese watch with palladium calibre.


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## FrogmanFreak (Aug 13, 2007)

Yes, we can say that omega makes their own movements to a certain extent since it is part of the Swatch group. On the other hand, Omega itself came up with its co-axial escapement.


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## Watch Watcher (Jul 12, 2007)

snorkeler said:


> For now, it's just a tarted up ETA movement. IMHO, that's a good thing. I'd rather have the hundreds of man-year experience ETA has in my watch's movement rather than some newbie's dream of what works. In-house is over-rated (IMHO).


Can't say it bothers me either, for the same reasons.



> Just an observation, if Swatch owns Omega and Swatch also owns ETA wouldn't that mean that Omega makes their own movements since they are both owned by Swatch?


I think it's normally referred to as 'in family', as the individual companies don't make them themselves, but neither are they produced entirely independently.



> Yes, we can say that omega makes their own movements to a certain extent since it is part of the Swatch group. On the other hand, Omega itself came up with its co-axial escapement.


Well, George Daniels did, but I know what you mean.:-d

Tom


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

I searched a number of sources, including Wikipedia, and Rolex turned up as using ETA movements... I didn't see anything saying they still made their own. If they do, is it only within certain very exclusive models? I also wonder how well they hold up to the outsourced movements?

Is it safe to say that a majority of well known brands outsource a number of movements but still make a few of their own? I'm having a hard time finding that out.

Yeah, Omega is an odd one... being owned by the Swatch Group, using ETA movements, you could say they use "in house" movements... but they're not made under the Omega unit, so I'd defer to saying they outsource movements.

Anyway, I've updated the list... will continue to do so as corrections/additions roll in. Thanks.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

FrogmanFreak said:


> Yes, we can say that omega makes their own movements to a certain extent since it is part of the Swatch group. On the other hand, Omega itself came up with its co-axial escapement.


Isn't this a special modification of an ETA movement, or is it from the ground-up their own design?


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## Nabco (Nov 9, 2007)

I think you are right on the Tudors, I'm almost positive my Tudor Tiger Woods Chrono has a 7750 or some variation



vandice said:


> Rolex doesn't use ETA movements, as far as I know. Rolex calibres are distinctly different from ETA in the automatic winding as well as their microstella free-sprung balance. I'm pretty sure that applies to the dress models too.
> 
> Perhaps the source was referring to Tudor, a sub-brand of Rolex, but I'm not familiar with the actual movements used in them.
> 
> As for the co-axial, it built into the existing ETA base, typically the 2892.


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## NEG (Aug 11, 2006)

xevious said:


> Isn't this a special modification of an ETA movement, or is it from the ground-up their own design?


A modification, George Daniels invented the coaxial and Omega took it on and fitted it to the ETA 2892 as stated above, this is their 2500 caliber.

The 8500 is not some tarted up ETA, it was designed within Omega and it is assembled within Omega, however, the parts are not made by Omega they are made by ETA. The 8500 is not available anywhere else outside of Omega.


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## Martin_L (Sep 14, 2006)

I would also add Vulcain with its calibers (incl. tourbillon) to this list.


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## CFK-OB (Oct 15, 2007)

Seiko are completely in-house movements, down to their own oils for lubrication.
Chopard use mainly ETA movements with a couple of their own.
Poljot use ETA movements.
Panerai use a number of outside movements including ETA and JLC and they have a few of their own.
IWC use a combination of ETA and in-house.
Patek Philippe only use a couple of outsourced movements for specific watches. Almost all are in-house.
Rolex as has been stated use all in-house movements. The last outsourced movement that was used was a Zenith El Primero for their Daytona, but this was changed five or six years ago to their own movement.
Ulysse Nardin use ETA movements.


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## Watch Watcher (Jul 12, 2007)

CFK-OB said:


> Panerai use a number of outside movements including ETA and JLC and they have a few of their own.


Really? Anyone any thoughts why JLC would choose to do this? Flogging off loose movements doesn't sound like them.

Tom


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## Watch Watcher (Jul 12, 2007)

vandice said:


> JLC is not known as the Valley's Manufacture for nothing. They currently produce about 40 mechanical calibres used by a variety of companies. I think they're the most prolific Swiss movement manufacture in terms of diversification.


Learn something every day!:-!

Tom


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

|> Yep, JLC will come out with sometimes three new calibers per year.


vandice said:


> JLC is not known as the Valley's Manufacture for nothing. They currently produce about 40 mechanical calibres used by a variety of companies. I think they're the most prolific Swiss movement manufacture in terms of diversification.


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## Dieselgeek (Sep 27, 2007)

Is the Tag Heuer 360 and the belt drive in house?


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## JohnF (Feb 11, 2006)

Hi -

Any of the newer Poljot automatics are all 2824-2 movement-powered. But note the word "newer". 

Poljot never seemed to get the hang for its own automatic movements. Other Russian makers, sure, but not Poljot...

JohnF


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2008)

vandice said:


> Poljot and ETA? That's new. Can you give a couple of model leads on this?
> 
> As for UN, they do have completely inhouse calibres. For example, the recent Freak and dancing Genghis Khan (there's a specific term for these kind of watches but the name escapes me).


See "Poljot International", they - for example - use ETA/Valjoux 7750. The Poljot International Polar Bear is fitted with a hw ETA. The first run with ETA movements was already made in 1998.


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## TheOptionMaster (Feb 3, 2008)

Longines is owned by the SWATCH group. Does this web site means Longines makes their own movement?

http://watchscape.tempusvivendi.com.br/longines7750.htm


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2008)

TheOptionMaster said:


> Longines is owned by the SWATCH group. Does this web site means Longines makes their own movement?
> 
> http://watchscape.tempusvivendi.com.br/longines7750.htm


No, a Valjoux 7750 remains a Valjoux 7750. It's just finished/modified by Longines.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2008)

Dieselgeek said:


> Is the Tag Heuer 360 and the belt drive in house?


The TAG Heuer 360 was first presented on the Baselworld 2005. It is the first mechanical wrist chronograph which is able to measure 1/100 sec. The movements consists of 234 parts, 131 belong to the chrono mechanism.


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## snorkeler (Sep 17, 2006)

stuffler said:


> No, a Valjoux 7750 remains a Valjoux 7750. It's just finished/modified by Longines.


More likely is the movements are manufactured, modified and finished by ETA for Longines, both divisions of Swatch.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2008)

snorkeler said:


> More likely is the movements are manufactured, modified and finished by ETA for Longines, both divisions of Swatch.


Right, so far Valjoux movements (as well as ETA and Unitas) are inhouse movements of the Swatch Group.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Do ETA and Valjoux make movements exclusively, or have they at times made their own watch casings at a notable production level (rather than a prototype or extremely limited/exclusive run)?


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2008)

xevious said:


> Do ETA and Valjoux make movements exclusively, or have they at times made their own watch casings at a notable production level (rather than a prototype or extremely limited/exclusive run)?


ETA and Valjoux to my knowledge never made watch cases, no prototypes, no limited, exclusive runs. Nothing like that. They always have been manufacturers of movements. Valjoux for example since 1901 (founded by John and Charles Reymond, Les Bioux, Vallée de Joux). The plant in Les Bioux is now plant 24 of the ETA SA which belongs to the Swatch Group.


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## Watch Watcher (Jul 12, 2007)

stuffler said:


> Valjoux for example since 1901 (founded by John and Charles Reymond, Les Bioux, Vallée de Joux).


Heh, I love names made like that. I gained a hell of a lot of respect for the car manufacturer TVR after I found out it was named after the creator, who was called TreVoR!:-!


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## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

*Hmt!!!*

HMT Watches, a division of Hindustan Machinery and Tools (HMT), uses in-house built movements.

HMT is a private company, conceived in 1949, and incorporated in 1953 by the Government of India. The company signed a charter with Citizen in 1960 and began making manual wind movements in 1962. The factories were designed by Citizen and the movements (Citizen design) are made in-house in India to Japanese quality control standards.

They make men's automatic (Model #'s *6500*/6582), men's manual (#'s 1809, 023, *0231*) and woman's manual (#'s 0185, 2345) movements.

The 0231 is a copy of the Citizen 0201 (and Caravelle 11DP 17jewel). I don't know the Citizen equivalent of the HMT 6500.

Cheers,
gigfy


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## FrogmanFreak (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: Hmt!!!*

ETA and Valjoux are now effectively part of the Swatch conglomerate. As such many other watch manufacturers who have used ETA or Valjoux movements are now worried that the Swatch group are beginning (or have begun) to control the sales of ETA watch movements. There's another thread that brings us to this story about the price of watch movements going up, and that Swatch group is no longer producing parts for other companies.

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=32717


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## evv69 (Dec 16, 2006)

Only a few can really claim that they are "Manufacture", a title given to those watch houses that makes in-house movements. the well known swiss manufactures are:

Patek Philippe
Audemars Piguet
Vacheron Constantin
JLC
Rolex

some brands are starting to make their own "in-house" movements, but are not yet considered up to the level yet.;-)


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

I'll through Bvlgari into the pot also.


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

FrogmanFreak said:


> Yes, we can say that omega makes their own movements to a certain extent since it is part of the Swatch group. On the other hand, Omega itself came up with its co-axial escapement.


? Que ?

The co-axial escapement was the invention of George Daniels, an English watchmaker. Omega patented it, that's all.

There sure is a lot of self-congratulatory fluff out there about Omega. Do they put something in the water...?


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*



xevious said:


> In casual conversation with several watch enthusiasts, I've heard a few times that today there are less than a dozen watch brands that make their own movements (called a manufactory). Some of those who do not are rather surprising to me. For instance, Rolex does not make their own movements (they sure seem to act like they do, though).


He he heh - that's a good one. Here, pull this one and it plays Jingle Bells :roll:


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## iceheller (Jan 24, 2008)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

You guys can check out this website for official swiss watch movement producer. 
http://www.fhs.ch/en/addresses.php?list=42


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## HelloNasty1 (Jul 8, 2007)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*



iceheller said:


> You guys can check out this website for official swiss watch movement producer.
> http://www.fhs.ch/en/addresses.php?list=42


It looks limited to only direct FH members as stated at the top of list.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*



publandlord said:


> He he heh - that's a good one. Here, pull this one and it plays Jingle Bells :roll:


Your comment was well placed. :-! I had gotten a "partial" bit of information that was correct at one point in time. Obviously things changed later.



> Wilsdorf & Davis was the original name of what later became the Rolex Watch Company. They originally imported Hermann Aegler's Swiss movements to England and placed them in quality cases made by Dennison and others.


But yes, Rolex eventually started making their own movements, to the point where "_to date, Rolex still holds the record for the most certified chronometer movements in the category of wristwatches._"


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## cosmic2000 (Jan 31, 2008)

Actually Daniels patented it. Omega are the only company to licence it from him and put it into mass production so far. Interestingly, the patent has now expired so it's possible that coaxial escapements could show up elsewhere in future.


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## KenC (May 5, 2005)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*



iceheller said:


> You guys can check out this website for official swiss watch movement producer.
> http://www.fhs.ch/en/addresses.php?list=42


Actually, most of those listed do NOT make their own movements...most use Swatch/ETA.

In addition to ETA and Valjoux, Swatch owns the Unitas movement.

Rolex, at one time (I believe) did use some ETA movements in the Rolex brand, the original Explorer comes to mind. ETA movements are used in their Tudor brand.

Orient movements are made completely in house even though they are 52% owned by Seiko/Epson, they are independent manufacturers.


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## Watch Watcher (Jul 12, 2007)

cosmic2000 said:


> Interestingly, the patent has now expired so it's possible that coaxial escapements could show up elsewhere in future.


Really? Crikey when did they patent it!?! They must have sat on it for ages!

Tom


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

cosmic2000 said:


> Actually Daniels patented it. Omega are the only company to licence it from him and put it into mass production so far. Interestingly, the patent has now expired so it's possible that coaxial escapements could show up elsewhere in future.


Thanks for the correction - I should have written "Omega licenced it from Daniels". I don't know who did the actual work to modify the 2892's escapement for use in Omega watches - it doesn't strike me as a "plug and play".


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## DSE (Nov 29, 2007)

And don't forget *RGM. Made in the good ole USA, baby!! Calibre 801 movements made in-house starting in 2008. *Seems Roland is picking up where Hamilton left off in 1969.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2008)

DSE said:


> And don't forget *RGM. Made in the good ole USA, baby!! Calibre 801 movements made in-house starting in 2008. *Seems Roland is picking up where Hamilton left off in 1969.


I wouldn't rate it to be complete inhouse. If you compare the "new" cal. 801 with the ETA/ UNITAS it looks like adding new bridges to known innards. Nevertheless the design is appealing. Hairspring, balance and jewels are said to be swiss made too.
Look s like an Unitas in new shoes as does the Dornblueth.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

DSE said:


> And don't forget *RGM. Made in the good ole USA, baby!! Calibre 801 movements made in-house starting in 2008. *Seems Roland is picking up where Hamilton left off in 1969.


RGM? I'm not familiar with them. Fascinating, though. A very small niche watch company, founded in 1993 by Roland Murphy.

_RGM is not a conventional luxury watch brand. Some of our watches feature exceptional complicated movement such as a Minute Repeating Perpetual Calendar, a Tourbillon, an Automatic Chronograph with Moonphase and a rose gold Skeleton Chronograph - just a few of RGM's highlights. RGM's reputation rests on its technical prowess and aesthetic beauty rather than a famous name._

_"You' re not likely to see the person next to you on a airplane wearing an RGM," Mr. Murphy says. "It is an exclusive timepiece for special collectors." _


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## Tomswissfan (Feb 11, 2008)

To be clear I am talking about Proprietary movements and would add the following:

Ebel
Maurice Lacroix

Keep going this is a good thread!!


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## joeyrahimi (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

Do you know what the pros and cons are of making your own movements?

I too keep getting into debates with people about that issue.

I'm a big fan of my Orient because it's affordable, makes its own movements, and mechanical, plus power reserve! Too bad noone has heard of it here in the USA.

Oh, and what about Tag? I have a Carerra that I love. Are they in-house?

Thanks for such valuable information!

Joey Rahimi


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## migo (Jun 4, 2006)

I would think that the Ulysse Nardin Astrolabium is not a modified ETA movement as the OP seems to suggest.


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## Tomswissfan (Feb 11, 2008)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*



joeyrahimi said:


> Do you know what the pros and cons are of making your own movements?
> 
> I too keep getting into debates with people about that issue.
> 
> ...


As far as I know they use Base ETA movements


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2008)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

What Carrera ? The TAG Heuer Gran Carrera 17RS for example uses the ETA 2994-2 as base movement.


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## harrmonica (Mar 17, 2008)

evv69 said:


> Only a few can really claim that they are "Manufacture", a title given to those watch houses that makes in-house movements. the well known swiss manufactures are:
> 
> Patek Philippe
> Audemars Piguet
> ...


Good thread and I'm late to the party. I would add Manufacture Girard-Perregaux to that esteemed list.


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## caesarmascetti (Dec 17, 2007)

Seiko, IWC does manufactrure it's own movements for their Portugese series, also since Omega is owned by the same corp parent as ETA, couldn't we say that they "manufacture" their own movement as both Omega and ETA are ultimately the same company?


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## Aqua Spearo (Oct 10, 2007)

This list has been polluted with non manufacturers.. sorry but breitling, omega etc and these other companies on the list dont even belong with asterics.. Youd have to add bell & ross too with their exclusive jump hour power reserve, never before seen minuteuer and tourbillon modules. I also think they will be moving to inhouse movements on all their watches within the next 10 years.


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## TheHomez (Mar 20, 2008)

Along the same lines as the OP, given that the lists must overlap, is there any list or ranking of the top 10 watch brands/manufacturers worldwide (Patek, AP, A Lange & Sohne, etc)???

I've done quite an exensive online search and mostly come across idiots saying swatch, fossil, or citizen.... o|


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2008)

Don´t know of such a list and imho such a list is always determined by personal preferences, imho A.Lange & Söhne have to be on the list, as well as PP, V&C, Blancpain, Rolex, AP.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2008)

Just read about the new Carl F. Bucherer automatic movement CBF A1000, pics (not yet on the www) are stunning.


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## KTM650M (Mar 22, 2006)

NEG said:


> Rolex do make their own movements. Back in 1912 a contract was signed with Aegler, the company supplying movements to Rolex, then in 1915 Aegler became Aegler AS, Fabrique de Montres Rolex. 1919 saw Hermann Aegler become a co-director of Rolex. Both companies aquired shares in each other, effectively making them one company but two legally separate entities.
> 
> Roll forward to 2004 and the Rolex companies merged into one with new facilities in Geneva and Bienne, everything is made in-house, they even have foundries for gold alloy production.


Your version is the version that can be found in many books and - ALMOST, accurate. You have failed to elaborate why they have (finally) merged and that the company (one of them) is, in fact, called Wilsdorf Foundation. Gruen had something to do with the movements too (and the American market) and a "section" of the company that makes the movements was bought by the "Rolex" Group (finally too) in recent years.
It is almost like saying that Omega, Tissot and Longines make their own movements (with ETA they all belong to the same group)


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## KTM650M (Mar 22, 2006)

aliasrichmond said:


> Prim
> Grovana Revue Thommen


Their movements are made in China.

If anyone has ever visited a factory that makes movements, I would say that there are three things which stick to mind - noise, smell and greasy floors (not necessarily in this order).

At the Grovana-Revue.Thommen offices/factory in Tenniken, there is not such a thing. No oily floors, no noisy machines spitting out '00s of small components a minute.

A Chinese company called Sunart Metal Works MFY Ltd. (Kwai Chung, Hong Kong) - used to do all components for the Grovana group - but the new "management" (young generation of Bitterli family taking over from their father) have decided to go down market to cheaper products made in China. Hence, low quality products (shame for the Revue-Thommen brand) very much on the verge of the Swiss made rules and regulations.


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## artec (Oct 31, 2006)

Nabco said:


> Just an observation, if Swatch owns Omega and Swatch also owns ETA wouldn't that mean that Omega makes their own movements since they are both owned by Swatch?


Although Omega and ETA are both Swatch-owned, aren't they separate companies? At the least, though, it may mean Omega has more influence on the designs or manufacturing processes or that they get a better deal than some-one outside the group.

I entirely agree with Snorkeler..... I'd much rather make use of ETA's data base of experience of their movements and the feed-back from all the watch-making companies they supply as well as all the individual consumers who buy the watches.


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## Moonrat (Nov 4, 2007)

Just been ferreting and found:

Badollet
DeBethune
DeGrisogono
Eterna
Gerald Genta
Gevril
Hautlence
Mille
Sjoo Sandstrom
Villemont
Wyler

As far as I know all the above make thier own movement - please correct me if you know different, I'm always keen to learn.


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## Guest (May 18, 2008)

Some are some are not, examples:

DeBethune: The Rattrapante is based on a Venus 179

Eterna: Yes as far as the 3030 is meant

Villemont: VM 102 is based on a FP

Wyler: The Wyler cal. 5640 is based on a Valjoux 7750.


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

KTM650M said:


> Your version is the version that can be found in many books and - ALMOST, accurate. You have failed to elaborate why they have (finally) merged and that the company (one of them) is, in fact, called Wilsdorf Foundation. Gruen had something to do with the movements too (and the American market) and a "section" of the company that makes the movements was bought by the "Rolex" Group (finally too) in recent years.
> It is almost like saying that Omega, Tissot and Longines make their own movements (with ETA they all belong to the same group)


Does Rolex, or as you say the company which is a sister company to Rolex being owned by the same parent, make movements for anybody else? Does Rolex buy movements from other movement suppliers? Do Rolex's casing division and movement division have different shareholders? Is there a Chinese wall between them? Does the company which owns Rolex's movement division have limited or no say in the manner in which its movements are designed and made?

That Rolex movements aren't in-house because of the corporate structure is a very thin argument, IMHO, and might suggest that you have a bit of a beef with them.


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## Guest (May 20, 2008)

stuffler said:


> Just read about the new Carl F. Bucherer automatic movement CBF A1000, pics (not yet on the www) are stunning.


Added a pic>>>>>>>>>>


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## eact (Jan 30, 2008)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

Any reason why F.P. Journe is not on the list?


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## Guest (May 20, 2008)

As long as the RT watches have the Swiss Made sign I think they are swiss. The law so far is indisputable. 

As a reminder (source FHS):

Swiss watch

Only when it is Swiss, may a watch carry the indications "Swiss made" or "Swiss", or any other expression containing the word "Swiss" or its translation, on the outside. According to Section 1a OSM, a watch is considered to be Swiss if:

its movement is Swiss; 
its movement is cased up in Switzerland; 
and the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland..


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## Guest (May 20, 2008)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

Now it is.


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## jewelerman (May 20, 2008)

WatchBreath,
you are right that Piaget dosnt get the respect it deserves.They used to supply movements to many fine watch companies.Also Rolex may be completely in house today but in its early years JLC supplied many of its movements.


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## Moonrat (Nov 4, 2007)

Further looking around finds us:

Clerc
Chronoswiss
Christophe Claret
Cvstos
Eberhard
Franc Vila
Quinting

Unless you know better ...


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## Guest (May 21, 2008)

Moonrat said:


> Further looking around finds us:
> 
> Clerc
> Chronoswiss
> ...


Afaik Chronoswiss has no in-house movements. They modify NOS Enicar movements which doesn´t make it a really in-house product. Eberhard afaik uses Valjoux/ETA movements. Don´t know of any in-house.


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## european.aristocrat (Jun 22, 2009)

stuffler said:


> Afaik Chronoswiss has no in-house movements. They modify NOS Enicar movements which doesn´t make it a really in-house product. Eberhard afaik uses Valjoux/ETA movements. Don´t know of any in-house.


http://www.dornblueth.com/flash.php?p=movements&s=movement_990

Dornbluth & Sohn make beautiful watches with their own movement from Germany.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Seiko
Citizen
Orient

Vostok
Zarja
Maktime

Luch

Sea-Gull
Shanghai
Beijing Watch Factory
Dixmont-Guangzhou
Guihua Nanning
Hangzhou
Liaoning
Liaocheng

The last 4 primarily make movement for other companies, however they all do some complete watch manufacturing.

Sadly several Russian watch manufacturers have closed in recent times; Poljot, Slava, Raketa, Chaika. Molnija and Agat still amke other timepieces, but not watches. Interestingly, both Raketa and Chaika used to make the complete watch, including springs and jewels. How many Swiss _manufactures_ can make the same claim?


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## David Wiernik (Oct 12, 2007)

Is there an updated list anywhere to the question?

DW


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## pointeau (Jun 5, 2008)

I have an Orient automatic Model EV09-C1. A nice looking watch with full day display, it keeps fairly accurate time. However, there are three problems with it, all of which keep me from buying other Orient automatic watches, or other Japanese automatics, or any automatics, with the same features: 1. It is not a hacking movement. 2. It cannot be wound by hand. 3. On this day/date version only the date is quickset; to advance the day you have to wind through 24 hours to get the day to change. Sorry, those are three big differences that keep me buying watches with ETA movements, or other Swiss watches with in-house movements. Let me know when Orient has changed their design and I’ll be ready with money in hand.


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## avers (Feb 25, 2010)

Need to add Maurice Lacroix to the list. 

They used various modified movements from other makers since the company started in the 1970s, but began manufacturing in-house movements couple years ago.

So, currently they are in-house + ETA.


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## wuyeah (Apr 24, 2007)

Great info guys! Please keep it update


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## v76 (Dec 29, 2009)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

There are many new independent small brands which have started making their own movements, for instance - Martin Braun, Zeitwinkel, Habring, Lang & Heyne, etc. and higher up, avant garde brands such as Cabestan, DeWitt, MBF, De Bethune, Urwerk, Greubel Forsey, Maitres du Temps, etc. Also, bespoke pieces by famous watchmakers such as Francois-Paul Journe, the McGonigle brothers, Kari Voutilainen, Christophe Claret, Thomas Prescher, Roger W. Smith, George Daniels, Philippe Dufour, Peter Speake-Marin, Dirk Dornblüth, etc.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

I must apologize for the long hiatus, of not actively keeping up with this thread. Life got busy and I simply lost track of it. But I'm glad to see people have still been adding to the list. Thanks! I've scoured through the subsequent postings since my last visit and updated the first page.

Please read the notes/addendum to the first page. I'm a novice when it comes to the watch industry, being familiar with a very small segment of it. I started this as a learning exercise, when I didn't see any such list of watch manufacturers already existing on WUS. I do try to check up on references given, just to be sure... because sometimes people are going on word-of-mouth from someone else and may have some facts wrong. But if I don't find anything to back it up, I take their word for it. Later, someone more knowledgeable may find something wrong. Just let me know and I'll adjust it. The most important thing is to keep this relaxed. This is no authoritative document, so it's nothing to get heated about if you find something isn't quite right.

One of the problems is that you'll have a manufacturer who made their own movements for a long time, but then started outsourcing. You also have some who outsource mostly, but do make some of their own. And lastly, ones who outsource movements but modify them in-house (and by modify, they really do make changes to the movement, not just put their own name on it).

One other issue is that there's a cottage industry of mechanical watch movements going on... it would be daunting to try keeping a list with every little independent watch movement maker on it. If I've inadvertently added one of those to the list, let me know. I'm trying to keep the list confined to mainstream companies, or small but well known established companies (nothing one-off, hobbyist, or micro-venture).


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

I removed Bell & Ross, as I learned they outsource all of their movements (from ETA and BNB Concept) and couldn't find anything that indicates they modify them. They're more of a "fashion watch" company, trying very hard to give the perception of something else--a stalwart watch company of long standing tradition.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Pretty much the norm, marketing is doing their job.


xevious said:


> I removed Bell & Ross, as I learned they outsource all of their movements (from ETA and BNB Concept) and couldn't find anything that indicates they modify them. They're more of a "fashion watch" company, trying very hard to give the perception of something else--a stalwart watch company of long standing tradition.


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## iim7v7im7 (Dec 19, 2008)

Don't forget the modified Marvin 700s as well...


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## hpark21 (Oct 8, 2007)

Maurice Lacroix should be starred as not all their watches use the new In-house movements.

How about Urwerk, something like this can not be an ETA...


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Yes, I remember seeing the Opus V Urwerk--certainly in-house movement. I guess they're well known enough to be on the list. ;-)

Where has Maurice Lacroix outsourced most of their movements from?


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

ETA and some from Sellita.


xevious said:


> Yes, I remember seeing the Opus V Urwerk--certainly in-house movement. I guess they're well known enough to be on the list. ;-)
> 
> Where has Maurice Lacroix outsourced most of their movements from?


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## cshepley (Jul 11, 2006)

pointeau said:


> I have an Orient automatic Model EV09-C1. A nice looking watch with full day display, it keeps fairly accurate time. However, there are three problems with it, all of which keep me from buying other Orient automatic watches, or other Japanese automatics, or any automatics, with the same features: 1. It is not a hacking movement. 2. It cannot be wound by hand. 3. On this day/date version only the date is quickset; to advance the day you have to wind through 24 hours to get the day to change. Sorry, those are three big differences that keep me buying watches with ETA movements, or other Swiss watches with in-house movements. Let me know when Orient has changed their design and I'll be ready with money in hand.


I know it has been a few years since you posted this, but Orient now has hand-winding and hacking movements in their collections (some with power reserve too).


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## fiveko (Aug 26, 2006)

Hi the topic is great, but there is no final list of the watchmakers, who still MAKE (not modify other's) their own movement. 

I was about to buy a Tissot Chronograph watch, when I found out that it was with a Swatch movement inside. This does not make it worse of course, but there is no way for me to pay 8 times more just to have the label of Tissot on the (S)watch. So, I bought an Orient MAKO - it is Orient from the outside and the inside, although this might look somewhat conservative. By the way, my father has an Orient King Divers, he wore it for about 40 years, he NEVER (and I DO MEAN IT) took it off his hand wherever he went (shower, sea, river, work, car repair, etc.) and whatever he did, and this watch, regardless of the countless scratches it has, still works great, but my father now prefers lighter watches. I don't know anyone who can provide such an example about the Swiss watches. 

Anyway, my point is that when you buy an Omega and you pay really a lot, it is good to be Omega inside as well. Otherwise, you pay for... I don't know for what, probably just to boast of in front of the rest. Most of the people who buy Porsche Cayenne don't know that only 13% of the parts are provided by Porsche and the rest is VW. I don't know for you guys, but if I pay for a Porsche, I want it to be a Porsche.


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## Zarith (Nov 5, 2007)

fiveko said:


> Hi the topic is great, but there is no final list of the watchmakers, who still MAKE (not modify other's) their own movement.
> 
> I was about to buy a Tissot Chronograph watch, when I found out that it was with a Swatch movement inside. This does not make it worse of course, but there is no way for me to pay 8 times more just to have the label of Tissot on the (S)watch.


Tissot is a Swatch Group brand, just like Hamilton, Longines, Certina, Omega, etc...

These brands all use movements made by ETA, also owned by the Swatch Group.

It doesn't mean Tissot uses "Swatch movement" and is offering exactly the same product as Swatch only "8 times" more expensive.

For similar specification, you won't find a single example of a 800% price difference. Or are you comparing a plastic quartz Swatch with a mechanical chrono Tissot?


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## tirod (Dec 17, 2011)

The Porsche example is relevant. Automakers that produce their own engines in house are certainly making all the parts compared to one that outsources the motor. As drivers we've continued to largely shun that kind of car up to a point. 

In house, it's no problem - Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury in the day shared engines a lot. Where the engine was made often wasn't co located at all - Windsor, Ontario, or Cleveland, Ohio built motors, cars using them could be assembled in Kansas City. Having a separate plant making the engine is a matter of logistics, not necessarily a question of "in-house." 

As far as ETA goes, I've no problem with it. What ETA is publicly complaining about is being stuck to make everyone's movements and selling them to competitors. But, they did buy up a lot of production capacity and vertically integrate, so who's to blame for that? Be careful what you ask for. 

Of course, when they want to trim their list of customers, the Swiss .gov didn't like reduce tax revenues or lost opportunity, and weighed in for more time in favor of the small guys. Who are now rapidly acquiring their own manufactory to survive. It's a basic issue of having capital to invest and being able to project profit in an acceptable method of accounting. If some aren't using "premium" movements now that attract buyers, it's small potatoes - most don't know what's inside the case anyway. 

To stir up who makes what - where does Timex Group B.V. fit? I understand their owned Brands include Swiss.


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## reef58 (Jan 15, 2012)

I am not aware of a Tissot Chronograph which is 8 times as much as other Chronos. The PRC Quartz is at most $400, and the autos are approximately $1000. They are a pretty good bargain really.



fiveko said:


> Hi the topic is great, but there is no final list of the watchmakers, who still MAKE (not modify other's) their own movement.
> 
> I was about to buy a Tissot Chronograph watch, when I found out that it was with a Swatch movement inside. This does not make it worse of course, but there is no way for me to pay 8 times more just to have the label of Tissot on the (S)watch. So, I bought an Orient MAKO - it is Orient from the outside and the inside, although this might look somewhat conservative. By the way, my father has an Orient King Divers, he wore it for about 40 years, he NEVER (and I DO MEAN IT) took it off his hand wherever he went (shower, sea, river, work, car repair, etc.) and whatever he did, and this watch, regardless of the countless scratches it has, still works great, but my father now prefers lighter watches. I don't know anyone who can provide such an example about the Swiss watches.
> 
> Anyway, my point is that when you buy an Omega and you pay really a lot, it is good to be Omega inside as well. Otherwise, you pay for... I don't know for what, probably just to boast of in front of the rest. Most of the people who buy Porsche Cayenne don't know that only 13% of the parts are provided by Porsche and the rest is VW. I don't know for you guys, but if I pay for a Porsche, I want it to be a Porsche.


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

The list is quite coplete. You need to add the small copanies that produce a handful of watches yeach year, for an astronomical price.


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## Squirrelly (Nov 9, 2011)

I was told that the movement in my Zenith El Primero was an in-house production... But after seeing this thread, I wonder if it's true?


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

The El primero is inhouse. The machinery was scrapped many years ago, but not destroyed. Then somebody ( Zenith? 
) started using the mothballed machinery again. The story can be found on the net.


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## BrentYYC (Feb 2, 2012)

Cuervo y Sobrinos uses mostly modified ETA movements, but I have one of their watches (a Historiador Semanal) that uses a modern version of an in-house movement they patented in the 1940's (the CyS 2853 cal). Here's a pic.









... and the front, showing the interesting complication


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## Janne (Apr 16, 2007)

Weird anybody would call its own movement 2853, which also was an ETA movement from the early 1970's. But that one was manual.


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## SgtClaymore (Feb 2, 2012)

It's good to see there is still quite a few companies that still make there own movements! This tells me us oldtimers new a little bit about quality back before all the technology!


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## Dex_Ter (Sep 11, 2011)

stuffler said:


> The TAG Heuer 360 was first presented on the Baselworld 2005. It is the first mechanical wrist chronograph which is able to measure 1/100 sec. The movements consists of 234 parts, 131 belong to the chrono mechanism.


TAG Heuer's 1887 Calibre: In-house Design? | Calibre 11 -TAG Heuer Watches


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

The inherent struggle for a thread like this is keeping track of two things: the exceptional cases where a house that normally outsources movements makes an exclusive model with their own movement (or heavily modified movement that was originally outsourced, which I'd consider to be the same), and those little independent watch companies that make their own movements, so small that it's nearly impossible to keep track of them all. Quite frankly, there must be a huge number of people flush with funds that love to keep those guys alive. I don't know how else they'd do it, especially in a down economy.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

BrentYYC said:


> Cuervo y Sobrinos uses mostly modified ETA movements, but I have one of their watches (a Historiador Semanal) that uses a modern version of an in-house movement they patented in the 1940's (the CyS 2853 cal). Here's a pic.
> 
> View attachment 629358
> 
> ...


That is an amazing work of art! Especially the case back, revealing some of the movement. The front is very busy and would take some getting used to. But the interleaving rings of the year, month, date, and day of week looks quite clever. Kind of mind boggling to think of the complication necessary to move those rings in the right position for each month and year, to stay in sync.


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## James Haury (Apr 10, 2008)

So I thought TIMEX made their own Quartz movements at least.Their mechanicals are Chinese.


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## Bubble (Apr 10, 2011)

Great thread. What about Graham and Arnold & Son ? 

Thanks


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## BrentYYC (Feb 2, 2012)

xevious said:


> That is an amazing work of art! Especially the case back, revealing some of the movement. The front is very busy and would take some getting used to. But the interleaving rings of the year, month, date, and day of week looks quite clever. Kind of mind boggling to think of the complication necessary to move those rings in the right position for each month and year, to stay in sync.


Thanks. From what I read when I was researching it, they spent two years developing the new movement for this model. The day I bought it I had another CyS on my wrist that I liked the look of more, but I kept coming back to this one because it was such a unique piece. You're right though, it takes a little while to get used to reading the date info at a glance, but it's a stunning piece of 'man jewelry' that I doubt I will ever see on anyone else's wrist.

Here's what it looks like on the handmade alligator strap it comes on. The lugs take getting used to, but all in all it's a unique and beautiful watch.


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## Roller.959 (Nov 29, 2011)

Wow, old thread resurrection. Add Montblanc.


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## munmanstk (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi. Newbie here. Anyone know if graham outsource their movements too (ETA perhaps)? Their watches are ridiculously expensive imo.


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## watch_tech (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

Please add Revue Thommen. They still make many of their classic movements. Thanks,


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## Bubble (Apr 10, 2011)

munmanstk said:


> Hi. Newbie here. Anyone know if graham outsource their movements too (ETA perhaps)? Their watches are ridiculously expensive imo.


Most are modified 7750 movements.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

Just a note about Omega movements....

All of them are modified from the ETA base.....

Enough that I would consider them "in-house".....


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

Add Chopard Luc, Parmigiani Fleurier, Hy Moser, Kari Voutilainen, Roger Dubuis, De Witt, François Paul Journe, De Bethune, Golay Spierer and Frederique Constant


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## leirex (Feb 12, 2011)

How about Dubey & Schaldenbrand? I did not read all the replies yet but do not see it mentioned so far. As far as I know, D & S uses modified ETA decorated and adorned with gold on movement display through see-through back. I believe they produce limited number each year with high quality.

Also, I noticed that some Ball models use Ball movement (maybe modified ETA). Ball info on their web site says Ball movement. Does anyone know about this?

I also thought that Clerc uses their movement but might be wrong.


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## Blanch (Jul 4, 2013)

I haden't read all the answers, but I can tell you that only the RichemonT group Brands (Roger Dubuis, for example, which is the best brand in the world 100% ponçon de Geneve) + 'the Fourth': Cartier, Audemars Piguet, Bovett and Vacheron are 100% manufacture. plus those ones, there are the German ones as Greubel Forsy (swiss manufacture but german brand) and A Lange & Söhne. 

Manufactures are really difficult to find now a days, and they are payed for 'Houndreds of Thousands'. Rolex was a good brand, now you just have to take a look at their prices and go arround Switzerland to see how the swiss watchmakers think about Rolex, S.A. It is even difficult to find retailers of Rolex there.

i hope my info. Was useful.


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## hydrocarbon (Aug 18, 2008)

Blanch said:


> I haden't read all the answers, but I can tell you that only the RichemonT group Brands (Roger Dubuis, for example, which is the best brand in the world 100% ponçon de Geneve) + 'the Fourth': Cartier, Audemars Piguet, Bovett and Vacheron are 100% manufacture. plus those ones, there are the German ones as Greubel Forsy (swiss manufacture but german brand) and A Lange & Söhne.
> 
> Manufactures are really difficult to find now a days, and they are payed for 'Houndreds of Thousands'. Rolex was a good brand, now you just have to take a look at their prices and go arround Switzerland to see how the swiss watchmakers think about Rolex, S.A. It is even difficult to find retailers of Rolex there.
> 
> i hope my info. Was useful.


Unfortunately, it might have been more useful if it wasn't wildly inaccurate.


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## little big feather (Mar 6, 2013)

hydrocarbon said:


> Unfortunately, it might have been more useful if it wasn't wildly inaccurate.


Such kind words.....I think a more forceful response would not have been inappropriate....IMHO


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

:-d Roger Dubuis - "best brand", good one. :-d Got any more knee-slappers?


Blanch said:


> I haden't read all the answers, but I can tell you that only the RichemonT group Brands (Roger Dubuis, for example, which is the best brand in the world 100% ponçon de Geneve) + 'the Fourth': Cartier, Audemars Piguet, Bovett and Vacheron are 100% manufacture. plus those ones, there are the German ones as Greubel Forsy (swiss manufacture but german brand) and A Lange & Söhne.
> 
> Manufactures are really difficult to find now a days, and they are payed for 'Houndreds of Thousands'. Rolex was a good brand, now you just have to take a look at their prices and go arround Switzerland to see how the swiss watchmakers think about Rolex, S.A. It is even difficult to find retailers of Rolex there.
> 
> i hope my info. Was useful.


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## ~tc~ (Dec 9, 2011)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

I didn't read all 7 pages, but in case nobody else brought it up ...

The "in-house" concept is actually quite new. Swiss (and especially, German) watchmaking has always been a story of specialists producing the parts, and then a larger shop in the same area putting them all together.


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## billyp7718 (Nov 7, 2011)

leirex said:


> How about Dubey & Schaldenbrand? I did not read all the replies yet but do not see it mentioned so far. As far as I know, D & S uses modified ETA decorated and adorned with gold on movement display through see-through back. I believe they produce limited number each year with high quality.
> 
> Also, I noticed that some Ball models use Ball movement (maybe modified ETA). Ball info on their web site says Ball movement. Does anyone know about this?
> 
> I also thought that Clerc uses their movement but might be wrong.


Ball does not have their own movement yet. All modified ETA.


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## blubarb (Feb 1, 2012)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

The Australian designed watch REBELDE by watchmaker Nick Hacko uses Unitas.


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## gotboredwithmyname (May 3, 2008)

Dex_Ter said:


> TAG Heuer's 1887 Calibre: In-house Design? | Calibre 11 -TAG Heuer Watches


That Tag movement actually is made by Seiko. Still qualifies as "Swiss Made" because A has to be 50% minimum manufactured in Switzerland and B Seiko is the only Japanese brand to actually be a member of the Swiss Chronometre thingy so can say swiss made. 
Tag amongst others have started making their own after Swatch basically told everyone to .... off. Why should they be making movements for their competitors. LVMH pulled out of the class action against Swatch and decided to go in house as have others.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


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## hidden by leaves (Mar 6, 2010)

gotboredwithmyname said:


> That Tag movement actually is made by Seiko.


I have not followed the TAG/1887/"in house" story too closely, but I'm quite sure what you are stating here is inaccurate.



gotboredwithmyname said:


> Seiko is the only Japanese brand to actually be a member of the Swiss Chronometre thingy so can say swiss made.


By "Swiss Chronometre thingy" do you mean COSC? Manufacturers are not "members" of COSC - they simply submit their movements to the Institute for standardized testing. Seiko, and others, test by their own (and sometimes more stringent) standards.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

hidden by leaves said:


> By "Swiss Chronometre thingy" do you mean COSC? Manufacturers are not "members" of COSC - they simply submit their movements to the Institute for standardized testing. Seiko, and others, test by their own (and sometimes more stringent) standards.


To further elaborate:

COSC = *Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres*.

Key work here is "Suisse", last time I checked, Seiko was not Swiss, nor does it have any facilities in Switzerland....


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## Citizen V (Jun 29, 2011)

lysanderxiii said:


> To further elaborate:
> 
> COSC = *Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres*.
> 
> Key work here is "Suisse", last time I checked, Seiko was not Swiss, nor does it have any facilities in Switzerland....


There was some talk a few weeka ago about a LE Credor from the late 90s or early 2000s with certified chronometer movement. The certificate it came with was a COSC certificate. I was wondering how this could happen since COSC is supposedly limited to Swiss Made movements. Did COSC certify non-Swiss movements for a time?


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

Are you sure it wasn't the 'Japanese Chronometer Inspection Institute'

According to ISO 3159, each country was supposed the have their own chronometer certifying institute....


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## dbostedo (Feb 26, 2014)

hidden by leaves said:


> I have not followed the TAG/1887/"in house" story too closely, but I'm quite sure what you are stating here is inaccurate.


Correct. It is innaccurate. Although the movement was originally a Seiko design that Tag licensed : TAG Heuer addresses the 1887 movement controversy | Europa Star Magazine


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## Citizen V (Jun 29, 2011)

lysanderxiii said:


> Are you sure it wasn't the 'Japanese Chronometer Inspection Institute'
> 
> According to ISO 3159, each country was supposed the have their own chronometer certifying institute....


Yeah. This watch came out after JCII was shut down and before Glashutte Observatory started certifying chronometers (had read before this observatory would certify anyone's movements). I have been rather confused by this since it contradicts all of what I've read about COSC.

EDIT: Here's the picture.










It's clearly a COSC certificate: same layout as they use and the logo is clearly visible. It also does say Credor on there, so it's likely not a random certificate paired with it.


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## bobo90 (Aug 19, 2014)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

I'm not sure and I'm too drunk to check but I think Titoni still make their own movements

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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*



bobo90 said:


> I'm not sure and I'm too drunk to check but I think Titoni still make their own movements
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Still"?

For a long time they were using ETAs. Cheap vintage Titonis (1980-1990) were my major source of 2824-2s.....


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## Emil Kraeplin (Nov 28, 2013)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

Nomos and Damasko should be added to the list. Most Damaskos use ETA, but they are using more in house movements now.

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## jepoy1119 (Feb 11, 2015)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*

Therefore, thank you ETA for the Moonwatch

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## NickinNYC (Nov 6, 2014)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*



v76 said:


> There are many new independent small brands which have started making their own movements, for instance - Martin Braun, Zeitwinkel, Habring, Lang & Heyne, etc. and higher up, avant garde brands such as Cabestan, DeWitt, MBF, De Bethune, Urwerk, Greubel Forsey, Maitres du Temps, etc. Also, bespoke pieces by famous watchmakers such as Francois-Paul Journe, the McGonigle brothers, Kari Voutilainen, Christophe Claret, Thomas Prescher, Roger W. Smith, George Daniels, Philippe Dufour, Peter Speake-Marin, Dirk Dornblüth, etc.


All of these should be added, also can't forget Parmigiani Fleurier.


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## lysanderxiii (Oct 4, 2006)

*Re: What watch companies still make their own mechanical movements?*



jepoy1119 said:


> Therefore, thank you ETA for the Moonwatch
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


? ? ? Huh ? ? ?

The Omega Speedmaster has used Lemania based designs since the beginning.

Further, Omega and Lemania were part of SSIH during the development of the Speedmaster in the mid-1950s and 60s. ETA never designed chronograph movement, and what's more, was part of the AUSAG, SSIH's largest competitor. ETA and Omega did not come under the same corporate umbrella until 1983 . . .


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## Geoffrey Jackson (Jan 29, 2014)

aliasrichmond said:


> Prim
> Grovana Revue Thommen


No-o-o-o....

Grovana did develop a full range of movements, presented as Revue Thommen, when it looked as if Hayek knew what he was talking about when holding forth on his plans for ETA, but very few of them went into Revue Thommen watches, and I haven't seen any Grovana watches, apart from a sub-Submariner with a Sellita, for a very long time. I've neither seen nor heard of any new or recently manufactured RT's with anything except ETA, (or Sellita), movements. There might be some on some catalogue somewhere, but, even if true, that does not state anything about commercially available products.

I bumbled belatedly into this one when an Orient fan asked Amazon to help him find an answer on the un-palpitating subject of Orient, and I decided to see how much of the answer would come from Orient themselves. None of it, but there was an Orient claim that they were one of the few watchmakers to make all their own movements, like, amongst others, Grovana Revue Thommen.

If you do something like someone who doesn't do it, that means you don't do it. Like this: Orient make coherent pricing policies like Presidential Primary hopefuls make sense.


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## RidingDonkeys (May 1, 2015)

You can add Raketa to your list. I know for fact they are making their own movements. However, who knows how much longer Vostok can survive. I can also verify with certainty that Poljot is not making their own movements, having just visited their factory a couple of months ago.


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