# Type 250F - Advices and comments on my first personal design. thanks!!



## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear friends, first of all, thanks Brad for letting me post my project here!

My name is Sergio Godoy Direnzo, I've been working as an architect and watch designer here in Geneva - Switzerland, and I'm very happy to share with you my first personal watch design.

Inspired by Maserati's 250F Jaeger speedometer (the car that got Juan Manuel Fangio to first position in the amazing 1957 Nürburgring race), my goal was to create something timeless but also contemporary, paying homage to a time of pioneers and amazing engineering, something elegant and subtle but with a sense of speed, like a good old vintage chronometer. I would like to hear your overall opinions regarding the design, colours etc...

Type 250f specifications:

Case material 316 L steel (polished)
Crystal Double domed Sapphire with Antireflection coating
Diameter W/O crown 40 mm 
Lug to lug 45mm 
Height 10.17 mm (without sapphire) 
Water resistance 5 atm 
Movement Automatic Seiko NH35
Wristband Genuine leather with engraved logo on buckle
Back Screw down
Weight 55gr. (without strap)

I would love to hear your feedback! All comments are more than welcome!
Thanks!
Sergio


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## solex (May 31, 2013)

Seems like you are pretty far along on what looks like a very nice watch but I have a number of suggestions with regards to being closer to the speedo


I see the second hand as a synonym for the speedo pointer
Add a tail to the second hand similar to the speedo pointer
In the white dial go with different color second hand black or perhaps blued

The minute hand is too close in style to the second hand and should be differentiated to avoid confusion
The minute hand should have lume as does the hour hand

Add Arabic Numerals at each hour marker (again just like the speedo)
Remove the 00 at the 12 marker and put the work Automatic along the circular path in its place
This will create a little more white space on the dial also similar to the speedo


Good luck with your project.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear Solex, thank you very much for taking the time to send me you impressions, this weekend I'll try your proposal and some others that I made during this year, but I think it will be a pity to lose the "00" since I think is one distinctive element of the watch.
Regarding the second hand tail, I found the original to be too classic, remember that the overall idea is not to reproduce the dial but to be inspired by. 
Thanks again, I'll let you know when your proposal dial will be post.
Sergio


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## Hirwill (Sep 10, 2016)

I can tell from the photos this in not your first watch design. I think it's a very well executed design. The whole watch clearly follows the same theme.

The leather band matches the design extremelt well. What material is the dial made of? Some kind of paper?

If theres anything that could be improved I'd say the crown. It looks pretty much off the shelf to me. How about a red crown? 

Great work, looking forward to see the continuation on this one!


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## Urs Haenggi (Feb 17, 2015)

I'll buy it now.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear Hirwill,
thank you very much for your encouraging words!, the dial is a metal standard dia but I see what you mean, I might went off too much adding grain in that picture!! lol....
here you'll find some of the (final) tesst that I've made, I'd like the asymetrical C1, but finally changed my mind and went to something more traditional (C3).
Regarding the crown, is true that is nothing too much special, I'm not quiet sure what you mean about doing it all red, maybe just a very subtle red circle around the crown would be nice!
thanks!!!



Hirwill said:


> I can tell from the photos this in not your first watch design. I think it's a very well executed design. The whole watch clearly follows the same theme.
> 
> The leather band matches the design extremelt well. What material is the dial made of? Some kind of paper?
> 
> ...


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Lol! very kind! thanks a lot!


Urs Haenggi said:


> I'll buy it now.


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## GUTuna (Dec 27, 2014)

Hirwill said:


> If theres anything that could be improved I'd say the crown. It looks pretty much off the shelf to me. How about a red crown?


Agreed here. Or perhaps bronzed like some of the dashboard screws?


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Well I'm not sure if it will be a good idea to make the crown with a different color/material, I think that will stand too much! I don't like those watches with some gold details over a base of polished inox, if you know what I mean...I think the attention should be focus on dial/hands.


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## dspt (Apr 18, 2014)

a very nice design, can't have anything to add. I would agree with solex that minute and seconds hands are too similar in shape, but red color almost negates this

as to my personal preferences, I don't like this type of lugs. Actual solid lugs like in trench watches might be a bit rad for modern designs, but the only appropriate compromise are removable ones like Panerai Radiomir has. IMHO, fake solid lugs like those you have (and other brands like Shinola etc) are only looking good on renders. In RL they suck. They never get properly aligned with the strap to fake solid lugs good enough.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear dspt,

I would have prefer solid lugs as well!, but it's so difficult to find wristbands with clips around!, and it doesn't look ssooo bad in reality, I'll upload a picture of the back.










dspt said:


> a very nice design, can't have anything to add. I would agree with solex that minute and seconds hands are too similar in shape, but red color almost negates this
> 
> as to my personal preferences, I don't like this type of lugs. Actual solid lugs like in trench watches might be a bit rad for modern designs, but the only appropriate compromise are removable ones like Panerai Radiomir has. IMHO, fake solid lugs like those you have (and other brands like Shinola etc) are only looking good on renders. In RL they suck. They never get properly aligned with the strap to fake solid lugs good enough.


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## mkws (May 11, 2014)

I do like the looks of the watch, but IMO the faux-solid lugs aren't a good idea. The rest is OK. Maybe the logo could be a wee bit smaller, and there is one thing that I would really love to see in this watch, which it didn't take from that gauge- that incredibly beautiful hand design.

The central gauge on that dashboard, which is the inspiration for your watch, is not the speedometer- it's the rev counter.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear mkws, thanks for letting me know regarding the rev counter, my mistake! so nobody here likes the lugs?
if you see on page one my finals tests, I did 2 versions of the logo size (c1 and c2) being C2 a bit bigger, I found that the smaller logo was not noticeable enough.
thanks for your comments



mkws said:


> I do like the looks of the watch, but IMO the faux-solid lugs aren't a good idea. The rest is OK. Maybe the logo could be a wee bit smaller, and there is one thing that I would really love to see in this watch, which it didn't take from that gauge- that incredibly beautiful hand design.
> 
> The central gauge on that dashboard, which is the inspiration for your watch, is not the speedometer- it's the rev counter.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear mkws, thanks for letting me know regarding the rev counter, my mistake! so nobody here likes the lugs?
if you see on page one my finals tests, I did 2 versions of the logo size (c1 and c2) being C2 a bit bigger, I found that the smaller logo was not noticeable enough.
thanks for your comments



mkws said:


> I do like the looks of the watch, but IMO the faux-solid lugs aren't a good idea. The rest is OK. Maybe the logo could be a wee bit smaller, and there is one thing that I would really love to see in this watch, which it didn't take from that gauge- that incredibly beautiful hand design.
> 
> The central gauge on that dashboard, which is the inspiration for your watch, is not the speedometer- it's the rev counter.


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## goody2141 (Jul 24, 2013)

Very nice. 
Subscribed.

Would love a nice, stark white dial version with black markings and red accents.


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## fredlim (Sep 22, 2015)

The dial design is very nice. I agree with solex the minute and second shape look too similar, I like the hollow hour hand, maybe change the hour hand to minute, and use another solid hand shape for the hour?
I also agree with GUTuna about the crown, using some of the dashboard screw, maybe the crown shape inspired by the "screw" in the picture? The current crown looks like a $20 quartz watch to me.









About the fake wire lug, it seems dspt concern is valid, from the picture it seems the lug not align with the strap enough.









Edit:
I think the lugs design is fine if the strap fit like Nomos, no visible gap between the lug and strap, the Nomos lug is slightly "insert" into the strap.
http://www.topperjewelers.com/?p=blog&article=the-metro-our-first-nomos-glashutte-on-the-topper-blog


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear Fredlim, I think is a good idea to insert the strap a bit, I'll do that, thanks!
Regarding hands, I think the 3 hands are totally different, as someone said, the second hand is red! and it's sweeping!...I wanted to evoke the spirit of a hand held Chronograph like a Nero retrappante.







the crown, is true that's something simple, but I didn't want that to compete with the rst of the watch, I wanted something simple and comfy that doens't hurt your wrist as a big crown could do...here you'll my drawings.










fredlim said:


> The dial design is very nice. I agree with solex the minute and second shape look too similar, I like the hollow hour hand, maybe change the hour hand to minute, and use another solid hand shape for the hour?
> I also agree with GUTuna about the crown, using some of the dashboard screw, maybe the crown shape inspired by the "screw" in the picture? The current crown looks like a $20 quartz watch to me.
> 
> View attachment 10183162
> ...


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

The crown in one of my render before the prototype.


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## mkws (May 11, 2014)

Aaaand, that Lemania stopwatch (yes, a stopwatch, not a chronograph- a chronograph is a watch with a more or less complicated stopwatch feature, and this Lemania is a stopwatch only) shows clearly what's missing from your design- IMO, that would be- as I have said before- what can be also found on that rev counter, and that would be the long counterweight on the second hand. If the second hand would be anything like the ones on that Lemania, I would even be beyond caring when it comes to the faux-solid lugs.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

LOL, yes a stopwatch! sorry, English is not my native language and sometimes I'm more concern in writing as best as I can, 
regarding the counterweight, as I've said before, is nice, but too classic for me, and I did work a lot on these hands, if you notice, and I'll post the illustrator later later, the radio of the end of the counterweight goes exaltly on the center of the logo located between the "automatic" and the center of the dial. I'm using only circles on this design, the dial, the lugs, even the "bathtub" section of the watch it's a perfect radius that goes from the "lunnette" to the backcase. I didn't want to go with elliptical shapes like the end hand of the lemania.



mkws said:


> Aaaand, that Lemania stopwatch (yes, a stopwatch, not a chronograph- a chronograph is a watch with a more or less complicated stopwatch feature, and this Lemania is a stopwatch only) shows clearly what's missing from your design- IMO, that would be- as I have said before- what can be also found on that rev counter, and that would be the long counterweight on the second hand. If the second hand would be anything like the ones on that Lemania, I would even be beyond caring when it comes to the faux-solid lugs.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear Friends, as requested from Eric (from EMG watches, check his beautiful chronograph!) here you'll find the white version + a british green... also please notice what I've tried to explain before regarding the end hands of both minute and second going through the center of my logo.
what do you think?


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## macosie (Jul 29, 2015)

I love the face, the second hand, and even the hour hand. 
Lugs... i'd look into the Panerai style screw in, but I don't know if that would work with the case style. 
I'm not a fan of the long skinny minute hand, that would be a deal breaker from me for buying the watch. I think the second hand and the lining up with the logo is cool. I just am not fond of that skinny a minute hand. I'd rather see the hour and minute match style. 
That said, it's' a beautiful design. I love the motivation.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear friends, how about posting a couple of pictures of how would you love those hands! I really like the idea of the Nero Lemania stopwatch, I think it's more original, I didn't want to go through the usual path, but maybe I'm wrong! let's see some ideas!



macosie said:


> I love the face, the second hand, and even the hour hand.
> Lugs... i'd look into the Panerai style screw in, but I don't know if that would work with the case style.
> I'm not a fan of the long skinny minute hand, that would be a deal breaker from me for buying the watch. I think the second hand and the lining up with the logo is cool. I just am not fond of that skinny a minute hand. I'd rather see the hour and minute match style.
> That said, it's' a beautiful design. I love the motivation.


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## macosie (Jul 29, 2015)

Sorry, it's a very crude edit of your work. I know it's traditional, but I really like your hour hand style. Maybe something like this. 
For me, I don't see myself differentiating the second and minute at a glance. Also, it's a matter of I like a little more thickness to a minute hand. 
Just a thought. I extended you original hour hand, and then copied and hacked it shorter to make he hour. I'm sure you get the idea. 
Will the hands be painted in lume? Is the light dial full lume?


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## goody2141 (Jul 24, 2013)

I personally like the hands as is. It's a little different, but looks great with the design.

Only thing I would like to see, is maybe some brushed and polished finishing. Lume might be nice, but I wouldnt necessarily need it. Not sure how you would incorporate it either.


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## Hirwill (Sep 10, 2016)

I agree with goody2141. The hands are really good as is. About lume I personally think the hands suits better without. Particularly on your theme.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear Friends!, thanks for your comments!, I'm leaving on holidays and on January I'm going to introduce some changes to the design, specially the case, I'll let you know. Merry Xmas and I wish you all the best for 2017!!!


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## MarcWinNJ (Jan 3, 2009)

Excellant concept so far. Like others here have said do something different and unique with the crown, that will give it more character. By the way I am a huge automotive themed watch lover, keep the designs coming.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Thanks!, yes when I´ll get back I´ll post some ideas, I´m excited to start the year and finish this project!
Thanks MarwinNJ



MarcWinNJ said:


> Excellant concept so far. Like others here has said do something different and unique with the crown, that will give it more character. By the way I am a huge automotive themed watch lover, keep the designs coming.


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## goody2141 (Jul 24, 2013)

Great news Sergio, I look forward to the update.

Enjoy your holiday!


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## geno2568 (Sep 27, 2016)

Beautiful design!


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear Friends, first, happy new year!

Ok, I've been redoing some work mainly the case I wanted something more ethereal and maybe a bit more contemporary, so here you'll find some 3D images.
I'm keeping the 40mm size, lug to lug is around 47mm, I'll try to reduce it a milimeter, maybe... 
I've also changed both hour and minute hands in order to be more simple and easier to differentiate from the second hand.
What do you think? cheers!


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## goody2141 (Jul 24, 2013)

Welcome back and happy new year.

The new case design looks great, but I think the older case style works with the dial design much better. You have a classic looking dial, it should stay with a classic looking case.

The new case would look great as a chronograph though. It's a little sportier, which requires a sportier dial design.

But, I would probably buy one in either case, especially with a white dial


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## macosie (Jul 29, 2015)

sergiom4 said:


> Dear Friends, first, happy new year!
> 
> Ok, I've been redoing some work mainly the case I wanted something more ethereal and maybe a bit more contemporary, so here you'll find some 3D images.
> I'm keeping the 40mm size, lug to lug is around 47mm, I'll try to reduce it a milimeter, maybe...
> ...


I love the case.Very guage like.I really like the new hand set.
I agree with goody that I would be good with either case. definitely those hands though. Great work. 
When are pre orders?


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## Jeff Scott (Jun 12, 2015)

My opinion (not worth more than .00000002 Centari Ducats): Original case, new hands, but thin down the hour hand a bit. Right now it seems too bulky.


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

Now THAT'S a 250F!


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear friends, sorry for the late response! it's true that this new case is a bit more sporty, but I took in consideration comments regarding lugs and height. I've managed to reduce a milimeter the case height (wich is almost 10% of the total height) and I'm confident that the result will be visually more lighter.

you'll find as well a 3D of the cream version.






I've added a very subtle chamfer edge con the exterior side of the lugs. 
Thanks for your comments!


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## mkws (May 11, 2014)

Looks great!


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## smartyjones18 (May 26, 2015)

looks great, I will buy it anytime. 

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Here is another point of view with the cream dial, I'm finishing my technical drawings and hope start the prototype in a couple of weeks.


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## dspt (Apr 18, 2014)

is it pure black or dark grey on the dial and hands?


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear Dspt, very good question!, it was designed initially with a 95% black, I think I'm going to keep it that way. what do you think?
regards,
Sergio



dspt said:


> is it pure black or dark grey on the dial and hands?


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## dspt (Apr 18, 2014)

I think dark gray goes better with this yellow


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Hello, having fun with the 3D model....what do you think?


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## macosie (Jul 29, 2015)

The 3D black renderings look great. The cream do too. This makes for a difficult choice. 

Sent from my 2014818 using Tapatalk


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Hey there! next week I'll have the final prototype! will post soon! cheers!


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

And here it is!, I'm very glad with the new case and hands!, hope you like it!
View attachment DSC01900.jpg
View attachment DSC01914.jpg


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## RicardoBayes (Oct 30, 2016)

Very nice watch, congratulations!
Both the black and the cream look great.

my 2c:
I personally would like to see the case to be slimmer, this one is probably a little bit too "tool-watchy" for me. Of course, within reason as this is not a dress watch.
Alternatively, on the 4th page you had a pic of a case with a more curved bottom side, which I think looks great and is much more like the 250F.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear Ricardo, In fact the new case looks slimmer! the back case contains the movement and from the outside you have the impression it's just 7.5 milimeters height. I'm quiet happy with the new profile...here is a 3D view


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## macosie (Jul 29, 2015)

Protos look amazing. Still can't decide which I like more.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Thanks, that's very kind of you!


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## Jeff Scott (Jun 12, 2015)

The watches look great, Sergio! Congrats.


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Jeff Scott said:


> The watches look great, Sergio! Congrats.


 Thanks Jeff! I'm very glad with the new case!


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Working on a prototype for a passport wallet to be included with the watch!






I'm working as well with the cream dial, not so easy to find the right color, sometimes it looks to a bit too much yellow, sometimes not...I'm planing to upload some test and hear your opinions. thanks.


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## Jeff Scott (Jun 12, 2015)

Color judging can be difficult on computer monitors given how we don't all use the same displays set with the same color management software. Not to mention our own visual perceptions. Because of this it would be best for you to send your watch samples to us, to evaluate in person. ;-)


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Jeff Scott said:


> Color judging can be difficult on computer monitors given how we don't all use the same displays set with the same color management software. Not to mention our own visual perceptions. Because of this it would be best for you to send your watch samples to us, to evaluate in person. ;-)


Lol, I would love to do that!
|>


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## Jeff Scott (Jun 12, 2015)

sergiom4 said:


> Lol, I would love to do that!
> |>


My brother-in-law has family in Zürich (he's from there), just give them the watches and Kurt can get them sent here. :-d


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## sergiom4 (Nov 15, 2014)

Dear Friends,
I would like to thanks Brad again for letting me open a new thread on Start up watches sub-forum
Hope to see you all there!
Cheers, Sergio


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