# Miyota 8215 owners:



## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

Just curious here, for owners of a watch utilizing the Citizen Miyota 8215 automatic movement, what is the accuracy of its time keeping? Has anybody ever attempted to have it adjusted to run more to their liking, or more accurately? What's the best you've heard of? I'm hoping to get a more 'Seiko-like' quality out of mine, since its been running a horrible 22 seconds fast per day. I've heard of the Seiko 7s26 movements doing a +/- 5 seconds a day. I'd be elated to have that right now.

Thanks in


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## W123 (Oct 15, 2007)

22 seconds isnt that bad, but most of mine have run about +15s a day. Seiko 7s26s can run like a scalded dog right out of the box too, I have seen some running +40 seconds a day. Just poor factory regulation. I have gotten rid of my watches with Miyotas in favor of the 7S26s. I like Seiko's movement better. More durable and less complicated (no hand wind).


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

W123 said:


> 22 seconds isnt that bad, but most of mine have run about +15s a day. Seiko 7s26s can run like a scalded dog right out of the box too, I have seen some running +40 seconds a day. Just poor factory regulation. I have gotten rid of my watches with Miyotas in favor of the 7S26s. I like Seiko's movement better. More durable and less complicated (no hand wind).


Really? I just can't accept having to reset the time on my watch every week, seems absolutely ridiculous to me. If I can't get it to run better than +/- 10 seconds a day, I'll just dump it and go back to having a cheap quartz or a really expensive swiss automatic. Dang, that's extremely disappointing. I'll give it a chance and take it to the jeweler I guess, see if he can regulate it a tad slower. Wish me luck!


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## Nick1016 (Aug 29, 2007)

Beyond 'The Box' said:


> Really? I just can't accept having to reset the time on my watch every week, seems absolutely ridiculous to me. If I can't get it to run better than +/- 10 seconds a day, I'll just dump it and go back to having a cheap quartz or a really expensive swiss automatic. Dang, that's extremely disappointing. I'll give it a chance and take it to the jeweler I guess, see if he can regulate it a tad slower. Wish me luck!


Let us know what happens--I don't own one and I never have, but it's hard for me to believe you couldn't regulate a Miyota 8215 down to +/- 10 seconds a day or better.


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

Nick1016 said:


> Let us know what happens--I don't own one and I never have, but it's hard for me to believe you couldn't regulate a Miyota 8215 down to +/- 10 seconds a day or better.


Will do for sure. As for never owning one, I wouldn't bother changing that. The Miyota's seem to have this horrible indirect sweeping seconds hand, that skips over several seconds at a time when held upright on a down stroke. It's ugly and gauche, and though it doesn't appear to affect its timekeeping, its just a sign of shoddy workmanship to me. Not sure if that's just with the 8215 or all of them though, and other than that and the extremely fast running, I love the watch! Big, bold, and pretty, with a ruggedness that screams - "Beat me up, I dare ya...".


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## W123 (Oct 15, 2007)

I only remember my Miyota movements running roughly when tapped with your finger or when winding the movement manually with the crown. Yes they definitely aren't the prettiest movements. They are just workhorses and like I said before, I think Seiko makes a better workhorse.


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

W123 said:


> I only remember my Miyota movements running roughly when tapped with your finger or when winding the movement manually with the crown. Yes they definitely aren't the prettiest movements. They are just workhorses and like I said before, I think Seiko makes a better workhorse.


I don't get the roughness when tapped, but do when hand-winding for sure. Forgot about that part, although it doesn't bother me near as much as when it does during normal opperation. The movement does hold up, I don't mean to take that away from it, but that's not saying much as far as I'm concerned. Not when comparing it against its faults. Still, I don't mean to say that I'm not happy with the watch overall, as long as my jeweler can regulate it to +/- 10 a day, i'll be moderatel content enough I guess. +/- 5 a day, I'll be pleased for sure, in spite of that tragic seconds hand stutter.


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Beyond 'The Box' said:


> Just curious here, for owners of a watch utilizing the Citizen Miyota 8215 automatic movement, what is the accuracy of its time keeping? Has anybody ever attempted to have it adjusted to run more to their liking, or more accurately? What's the best you've heard of? I'm hoping to get a more 'Seiko-like' quality out of mine, since its been running a horrible 22 seconds fast per day. I've heard of the Seiko 7s26 movements doing a +/- 5 seconds a day. I'd be elated to have that right now.
> 
> Thanks in


My guess is that 22 seconds gain per day is within specs for the Citizen watch. What does the owners manual or warranty say the range of error should be. Considering that an entry level mechanical movement can very widely in it's timekeeping, that error rate is not all that bad.

Over how many days have you been checking the accuracy. I would sugest wearing the watch for 7 days and just check the amount of error at the end of that time.


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## Marte (May 1, 2007)

Beyond 'The Box' said:


> Just curious here, for owners of a watch utilizing the Citizen Miyota 8215 automatic movement, what is the accuracy of its time keeping? Has anybody ever attempted to have it adjusted to run more to their liking, or more accurately? What's the best you've heard of? I'm hoping to get a more 'Seiko-like' quality out of mine, since its been running a horrible 22 seconds fast per day. I've heard of the Seiko 7s26 movements doing a +/- 5 seconds a day. I'd be elated to have that right now.
> 
> Thanks in


Miyota runs a bit faster out of the box, also mine, but it runs regulary faster so i think it could be adjusted but never try on a miyota


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

Marte said:


> Miyota runs a bit faster out of the box, also mine, but it runs regulary faster so i think it could be adjusted but never try on a miyota


I think something might have been lost in the translation here. It sounds like you agree that it can be adjusted, but that you wouldn't recommend it? If that is the case, can you please explain why?

Thanks for the response!


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Beyond 'The Box' said:


> Really? I just can't accept having to reset the time on my watch every week, seems absolutely ridiculous to me. If I can't get it to run better than +/- 10 seconds a day, I'll just dump it and go back to having a cheap quartz or a really expensive swiss automatic. Dang, that's extremely disappointing. I'll give it a chance and take it to the jeweler I guess, see if he can regulate it a tad slower. Wish me luck!


I think you may not understand how accurate (or inaccurate) a mechanical watch really is. A mechanical watch certified to be a chronometer has to meet several standards but the basic one is: Average daily rate: -4/+6. That's a mechanical watch that can cost several hundreds to several thousands of dollars. Seen that light a 10 to 20 second daily gain on a $75.00 Miyota powered watch seems mot unreasonable.

Mechanical watches are inherently less accurate than quartz watches. A simple Timex Ironman will outperform virtually any mechanical chronometer sold today. And a Seiko Perpetual Calendar quartz will run circles around any mechanical chronometer with 20 second per year accuracy. So if infrequent watch setting is the goal then you should indeed consider a quartz timed watch.


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

John MS said:


> I think you may not understand how accurate (or inaccurate) a mechanical watch really is. A mechanical watch certified to be a chronometer has to meet several standards but the basic one is: Average daily rate: -4/+6. That's a mechanical watch that can cost several hundreds to several thousands of dollars. Seen that light a 10 to 20 second daily gain on a $75.00 Miyota powered watch seems mot unreasonable.
> 
> Mechanical watches are inherently less accurate than quartz watches. A simple Timex Ironman will outperform virtually any mechanical chronometer sold today. And a Seiko Perpetual Calendar quartz will run circles around any mechanical chronometer with 20 second per year accuracy. So if infrequent watch setting is the goal then you should indeed consider a quartz timed watch.


There's some truth to that, and I know all of this, but my question was simply that if a watch can run a consistent 22 seconds fast a day, why can't it run 5 or even 1 or 2 with a mere adjustment? No big deal either way, I'm fully prepared to toss the thing without a care, just asking for some experienced advice before I do. I can't imagine anybody being okay with 20 or more seconds fast a day. That's just bull, and completely contradictory to the concept of timekeeping as a whole. I know Miyota is cheap compared to a COSC certified ETA or something, but that doesn't mean that with a few more dollars spent at a jeweler it can't be regulated to run just as well (or so I would think). What ever, doesn't really matter, thanks for offering your insight.


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## conjurer (Jan 15, 2008)

For what it's worth, I own a couple of 8215's, one in an Invicta and one in a Croton.

I think they can be regulated, but I've never had to do it with mine. Both of them ran great out of the box, +5 seconds a day, or thereabouts. My Invicta (in the standard Pro Diver) was so accurate I didn't have to reset the time for three weeks after I first got it. They beat every other auto movement in my collection, including an ETA 2824, 2836, Val. 7750, and whatever Rolex puts in the AirKing.


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

conjurer said:


> For what it's worth, I own a couple of 8215's, one in an Invicta and one in a Croton.
> 
> I think they can be regulated, but I've never had to do it with mine. Both of them ran great out of the box, +5 seconds a day, or thereabouts. My Invicta (in the standard Pro Diver) was so accurate I didn't have to reset the time for three weeks after I first got it. They beat every other auto movement in my collection, including an ETA 2824, 2836, Val. 7750, and whatever Rolex puts in the AirKing.


Now that is great and very promising news! Thanks Conjie!


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Beyond 'The Box' said:


> There's some truth to that, and I know all of this, but my question was simply that if a watch can run a consistent 22 seconds fast a day, why can't it run 5 or even 1 or 2 with a mere adjustment? No big deal either way, I'm fully prepared to toss the thing without a care, just asking for some experienced advice before I do. I can't imagine anybody being okay with 20 or more seconds fast a day. That's just bull, and completely contradictory to the concept of timekeeping as a whole. I know Miyota is cheap compared to a COSC certified ETA or something, but that doesn't mean that with a few more dollars spent at a jeweler it can't be regulated to run just as well (or so I would think). What ever, doesn't really matter, thanks for offering your insight.


I don't know how to break this to you other than to say it. The Miyota is an entry level watch movement. Consequently it was manufactured with only enough care to get it to perform within a wide range, usually +30 seconds to -15 seconds or similar. Even a well made mechanical movement is inherently inaccurate compared to a quartz. Yes, a watch maker can with some fiddling and about $15.00 refine the average accuracy.

It is not "just bull" that 20 second per day accuracy is contradictory to the concept of timekeeping. Mechanical watches have not changed in their basic design over the past 60 years and 20 second accuracy was for a very long time more than sufficient. Mechanical watches are in a sense enjoyable throwbacks to another era of timekeeping. Even the COSC realizes this simple fact of mechanics vs electronics. The standard for a mechanical chronometer is understood as an error of seconds per day while the quartz chronometer standard is really understandable as seconds per year measurement. The fractional seconds per day measurement is quite small.


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## Marte (May 1, 2007)

Beyond 'The Box' said:


> I think something might have been lost in the translation here. It sounds like you agree that it can be adjusted, but that you wouldn't recommend it? If that is the case, can you please explain why?
> 
> Thanks for the response!


NO the miyota is a good movement, as good as a swiss eta!


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

So I knew when I bought this watch that the Miyota inside it was what some seem to be calling an "entry level" movement, but I had also heard quite a few good to great things about them, so I thought I'd give it a try, mainly because I just absolutely loved the watch it was in. Anyway, it seems that the general consensus around here is that the watch can and should be able to be regulated to do, at the bare minimum, a tad better, which answers my question. As for whether or not the 22-24 seconds is acceptable or not, well that's merely opinion and completely subjective, so there's no argument there to be had. Perhaps I expect too much, or maybe I'm just one of the rare few that don't believe in lowered-expectations to allieviate any culpability or responsibility for quality control. Thanks again for your offerings of insight and help. And that goes to all of you. I plan on taking it to a local watchmaker with 20+ years experience next week and will let you know the results when I get it back.


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## Young at Heart (Oct 21, 2007)

Beyond 'The Box' said:


> Perhaps I expect too much, or maybe I'm just one of the rare few that don't believe in lowered-expectations to allieviate any culpability or responsibility for quality control.


I think you may have answered your own question. You're wanting a mass-produced movement to perform to near COSC specs. If you're demanding that type of accuracy you'll be disappointed with Seiko's mass-produced movements as well. However, it has nothing to do with with quality control, the watch movement as you've described it does not represent a quality issue.


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

Young at Heart said:


> I think you may have answered your own question. You're wanting a mass-produced movement to perform to near COSC specs. If you're demanding that type of accuracy you'll be disappointed with Seiko's mass-produced movements as well. However, it has nothing to do with with quality control, the watch movement as you've described it does not represent a quality issue.


here we go again with the lowered-expectations... i'm not expecting the mass-produced movement to do this right out of the box - never said that, but i am expecting it to have the ability to run much better with some professional adjusting (i draw your attention to the reason for this post) it's been how many decades that automatics have been in production? i'd like to avert your attention to something a few of you seem to think of as a theoretical tyrrany.. progression and advancement in technology. to say that 20 seconds is acceptable at any level this day in age is just disgusting to me, but i'm allowed that opinion, the beauty in the ignorance that is humanity. so i took the watch to my watchmaker extraordinaire and he took 15 minutes with a few tools, said it should be running at 3-8 seconds a day now. he's never been wrong before, so i'm happy! cheers!

and again, though we may not agree, don't take my reluctance to fall in line as a sign of disrespect. i thank each of you for taking the time to help me with this, whether we saw eye to eye or not is utterly unimportant. ;D


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Beyond 'The Box' said:


> So I knew when I bought this watch that the Miyota inside it was what some seem to be calling an "entry level" movement, but I had also heard quite a few good to great things about them, so I thought I'd give it a try, mainly because I just absolutely loved the watch it was in. Anyway, it seems that the general consensus around here is that the watch can and should be able to be regulated to do, at the bare minimum, a tad better, which answers my question. As for whether or not the 22-24 seconds is acceptable or not, well that's merely opinion and completely subjective, so there's no argument there to be had. Perhaps I expect too much, or maybe I'm just one of the rare few that don't believe in lowered-expectations to allieviate any culpability or responsibility for quality control. Thanks again for your offerings of insight and help. And that goes to all of you. I plan on taking it to a local watchmaker with 20+ years experience next week and will let you know the results when I get it back.


An entry level movement from a company like Seiko or Citizen will be one that will likely perform for decades and live through more deferred maintenance than most expensive watches. There's nothing wrong with that label, but in-fact that is what those movements in $50.00 Seiko watches are. They are designed to give a reasonable level of accuracy from an inexpensive spring powered movement.

I think your expectations about "culpability or responsibility for quality control" are beyond what can be delivered from a company producing great numbers of inexpensive mechanical watch movements. You get what you pay for. I'm wearing a watch that uses an ETA 2893-a2 movement and out of the box it delivers +7 seconds daily gain consistently. But I paid a lot more than $50.00.


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

...just an update, three days after I had this Miyota in question regulated, it was running with no gain or loss, that's zero either way!!! WOW! After that, it was back to gaining 23 seconds per day. ;D hahaha. Now, a few weeks later, it runs completely sporadic. Yesterday it ran +8 seconds, today it was heading the same way, then all of the sudden between 12:30pm and 1pm, it skipped ahead 39 seconds. WTF!?!?!? What a POS. I will never buy anything with a Miyota 8215 in it again, that's for sure. It makes me wonder though, how do their other movements run. Namely, the nicer, more high-end autos, and especially the Autozilla. I'm real curious as to what movement is in it, and how it runs on average. Anybody with any info? Anyway, I decided to keep the watch, because I highly doubt I could sell something running so crappy, and I'll just give it to my brother as a birthday present this year. ;D Kills two birds with one stone ya know, I really detest the little pothead. hahaha.


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## marcelbodevin (Dec 23, 2007)

Specs for this movement:
-20 to + 40 seconds a day

Your watch is well within specs and within what most watch owners would expect from such an inexpensive watch. You need to consider a quartz watch.


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## gaijin (Oct 29, 2007)

Beyond 'The Box' said:


> ... It makes me wonder though, how do their other movements run. Namely, the nicer, more high-end autos, and especially the Autozilla. I'm real curious as to what movement is in it, and how it runs on average. Anybody with any info? ...


I can tell you something about the AutoZilla.

It has the Miyota 8203B which is spec'd at -10/+20 sec/day.

Mine is new (manufacture date of July 2007) and over the past three days it has gained less than 5 seconds. It appears to be running very consistently at +1.5 sec/day. I'm very pleased, but I don't know how typical this is for this movement.

Here's a pic of the 8203 movement - I assume the 8203B is similar:










HTH


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## Pasgal_X (Sep 18, 2008)

I have a a watch running with this movement and i must say that it work very fine, it has never lost or add seconds. I think that it take 10 or 20 seconds after an entire month. My experience with this movement was totally good. I own a 7s26 too by Seiko and nothing to say except that this are "battle movements" for everyday bussiness that works fine and are not so exphensive.


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## supawabb (Aug 27, 2007)

Bringing an old thread back from the dead...

My 8215 runs dead on +-0 a day when on the wrist or when laying overnight crystal up. Crown up and it'll lose 5-8 secs over 8 hours and the same crown down.

Wearing it, runs spot on.


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## dnslater (Feb 26, 2009)

The 8215 in my Cave Dweller runs +5 seconds or so per day. I believe Keith Boschett regulates them prior to sale.


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## Paperclip (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm in the process of gathering data of my 8203. So far it was like this:

Day 1: +0.80 s/hr
Day 2: +0.92 s/hr
Day 3: +0.73 s/hr
Day 4: +1.17 s/hr

Average = +0.91 s/hr = +21.72 seconds per day,

which is worse than my 7S26B Seiko (about +8 seconds per day) accuracy wise so far.


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## obsidian (Feb 13, 2006)

*At the risk of bringing the wrath of the "Cult of the Seiko 7S26" down on my head, I've had several Miyota 8215 and 8205, and all have run fast-- though all have been more accurate than any Seiko 7S26a movements I've had. I've heard that the newer 7S26b version is supposed to be more accurate than the older "a" version, but have no experience with it.*


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## ky70 (Jun 3, 2009)

I have/have had 6 8215 Miyotas. And here is their accuracy variance:

Invicta Grand Diver: +17 sec/day
Invicta Ocean Ghost: +12 sec/day
Magico 200m Diver:+10 sec/day
Benarus Sea Devil:+4 sec/day
Benarus Moray:+3 sec/day
Halios Holotype:+0.5 sec/day

I love the accuracy I've gotten from Miyotas.


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## Paperclip (Jan 20, 2010)

I want to add that apparently a day of strolling around the house filled the power reserve only about 36hrs, not so with my 7S26 (max). Of course it's still adequate though but my limited experiment tells something about the unidirectional winding mechanism efficiency.


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## Paperclip (Jan 20, 2010)

ky70 said:


> I have/have had 6 8215 Miyotas. And here is their accuracy variance:
> 
> Invicta Grand Diver: +17 sec/day
> Invicta Ocean Ghost: +12 sec/day
> ...


It seems that Benarus and Halios regulate their watches well:-!


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

Paperclip said:


> It seems that Benarus and Halios regulate their watches well:-!


I'd like to believe that, but even "seems" is over-certain when you're talking about one sample :think:


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## ky70 (Jun 3, 2009)

Sean779 said:


> I'd like to believe that, but even "seems" is over-certain when you're talking about one sample :think:


You'll find these type of consistent low variances across the board with Benarus and Halios watches and the folks with both have also said that they do infact regulate their watches before shipping them out. I don't believe I've ever heard of a watch from either company with a variance of 10 sec/day or more. It's likely one out there more off than that but I haven't heard about it.


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

ky70 said:


> You'll find these type of consistent low variances across the board with Benarus and Halios watches and the folks with both have also said that they do infact regulate their watches before shipping them out. I don't believe I've ever heard of a watch from either company with a variance of 10 sec/day or more. It's likely one out there more off than that but I haven't heard about it.


Thanks! That's good to know.:-!


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## W123 (Oct 15, 2007)

Did the OP get banned?


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## jason_recliner (Feb 2, 2009)

W123 said:


> Did the OP get banned?


And how! :-d


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## W123 (Oct 15, 2007)

lol. doesnt surprise me i guess.


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## por44 (Dec 21, 2007)

The 8215 has always served me well - a solid/dependable workhorse - IMO on par with lower end ETA movements.


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## Ephry (Feb 20, 2011)

Sometimes that happens. The only complaint I have about my newly acquired 8926c is that the cyclops is not centered right. Maybe I'm just picky.

E


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## dnslater (Feb 26, 2009)

Ephry said:


> Sometimes that happens. The only complaint I have about my newly acquired 8926c is that the cyclops is not centered right. Maybe I'm just picky.
> 
> E


Surely you just replied to the wrong thread???????


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## DM71 (Feb 6, 2009)

I have many watches with the Miyota and 7SXX movement, and even if Seiko use a slightly superior architecture for it's movements IMO (bi-directional winding mechanism vs unidirectional and direct second hand drive vs none direct second hand drive ), both are capable of *amazing* time keeping. I have done regulations on a few Seikos and Miyota powered watches, it's an easy task but can be tricky to get right the first time. I do not have one that is at more than +- 8 sec a day, while some are at + 1 or 2 sec after two to three days so...Do it and you will enjoy your watch for long time! Good luck :-!

I think that entry level ETA movements are more refined movement than the Seiko or Citizen ones and have a small edge over them but might not be as rugged in the long run (read might need more frequent services then the Japanese MOVT due to their higher beat rate and design)


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## DM71 (Feb 6, 2009)

Paperclip said:


> It seems that Benarus and Halios regulate their watches well:-!


My Benarus World Diver with ETA 2893 is at - 30 sec a day and I will have to adjust it (just didn't take the time to do it yet). Among five watches I bought from Benarus, it's the worst one, all the others have been within + - 10 sec a day, which is acceptable for me.


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## Ephry (Feb 20, 2011)

dnslater said:


> Surely you just replied to the wrong thread???????


I believe i merged two replies lol.

E


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## Magnus.LPA (Sep 3, 2013)

I am new to regulating movements, and find it very nice to do  I like it a lot.

So I just regulated a 8215 yesterday and will see within a day or two how it goes, but I think I may have gotten it right... It was way too fast (about +17 secs a day), as often 8215 are, it seems, and I think it should be much better now. After a day, it seems like it is around +5, although it is not easy to check in one day only, especially with these non hacking movements.


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## Lupercal (Jan 31, 2020)

W123 said:


> I only remember my Miyota movements running roughly when tapped with your finger or when winding the movement manually with the crown. Yes they definitely aren't the prettiest movements. They are just workhorses and like I said before, I think Seiko makes a better workhorse.


Strongly disagree,I've found miyota 82-- series to be FAR more robust than the nh35,one tiny knock affects the accuracy of the nh series,I've dropped,knocked bashed thumped my 8204 and it absolutely will not misbehave it just takes whatsoever I throw at it,grins and laughs at me,I'd take an 82-- into armage ith confidence


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