# Doxa SUB 4000T Review



## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Doxa fans,

Rick at Doxa was kind enough to send me a couple of demo watches for the Atlanta GTG that was held last weekend. Both the SUB 4000T Pro and the Aquadive Bathyscaphe 100 DLC are incredible watches and of high enough quality that I felt obligated to review them for the benefit of both brands offical forums. I will be posting a review of the AD DLC in their forum sometime in the next few days. The AD was not an actual demo, it was from Rick's personal collection. My opinions are my own and are truthful based on my impressions of the watches. As a Moderator of the Doxa Forum, one could assume that my opinions toe the company line but that is not the case. Reality is, in fact, quite the opposite. I am a moderator because I respect the brand and enjoy talking about them with like minded folks.

I do not consider myself to be much of a writer so please be kind.:-!

The first thing that one notices about the Doxa SUB 4000T Pro is the size. This thing is big. There is no other way to put it but don't take that observation to be a negative thing. While it certainly commands it's share of wrist space, it uses the extra real estate as an opportunity to better show off it's quality in the bright orange that is the hallmark of the brand.

My wrist is an extremely masculine, OK somewhat puny 6.5'' so I have to be more selective in my choice of dive watches.:-d While I prefer my watches to be on the large size, I do not care for the look of a watch whose lugs overhang the wrist. At that point they begin to look cartoonish which is not a look that I go for. Being rather flat, my wrist allows me to wear watches that range in the common widths between 40mm and 45mm. The relatively short lug length of the 4000T, 48mm, makes it wearable even on my wrist. At 47mm wide I would not have expected it to wear as well as it does.

As die hard Doxa fan, I consider myself to be somewhat of a purist. I like the iconic designs of the original SUB's so the aesthetic changes on this model took some getting used to on my part. After a few days with it I began to warm up to the changes. The modern updates work well with the size. In fact, after giving it some thought, I really like that this is in the lineup. There are only so many subtle variations that can be made to the original design before the offerings begin to look stale. Sure, there will always be first time buyers out there but variations such as the SUB 4000T, SUB 1500T, SUB 800Ti, etc, give returning customers something different. I mentioned a while back on the forum that I would love to see Doxa in the sweet spot between Rolex and Omega as far as the collection as a whole goes. IMO, Rolex have become stodgy. They rarely make changes to their core lineup which is fine for their demographic but I don't think it would help Doxa with repeat business. OTOH, Omega seems to change their core lineup once a month. I am, of course, exaggerating a bit but you get my point. They lack continuity. One never seems to know if a favorite model will still be offered next year. Again, this would be terrible for Doxa as they primarily trade on the classic SUB design. I believe that there is a spot in between the big guys where watch models can maintain consistency as well as just enough variety to keep the people interested and wondering what will be out next year.

Stepping off of my soapbox and back to the review...The large case maintains the classic cushion shape but with a slightly modified dimensions to work with the larger diameter. If the original case were simply up-sized to 47mm the lug to lug measurement would have been longer and therefore not as wearable. The classic No-Decompression bezel is still available and looks great, as always. I have not yet seen the sapphire bezel option in person but I like the looks on the pictures that have been released. The sapphire is also a clever way to avoid the scratches that the polished No-Decomp bezel seems to attract. Another change is the bracelet. I am surprised by how much I like the new three link oyster style bracelet. It's shape, weight, and 22mm width are a better match for the large case than the traditional 20mm Beads Of Rice would have been. Some of the larger re-issue Subs such as the 750GMT use the 20mm BOR bracelet with 21mm end links. This is a workable solution for the 44.5'' models but would have been off balance on the 4000T. Another common concern amongst Doxa fans is the dial. The "Safe Dive" indicator seems to be especially polarizing. I have to admit that I was in the camp that did not care for the "Safe Dive" text. My opinion was based on the pictures on Doxa's website. The enlarged pictures tend to exaggerate the text's impact on the dial. In person it is small enough to not really get noticed. What is noticed, however, is the power reserve. I have yet to own a watch with one and I rather like having it there. I now find myself wishing that at least a few of the divers in my collection had it. Another plus for the Safe Dive indicator is the way it fills that lower left quarter of the dial so that the field of orange does not appear too large. As you know, blank space on dials tend to make the dial appear larger, even more so on a brightly colored dial like the 4000T Pro. IMO, breaking it up in this manner helps the watch be more wearable while still giving us plenty of that Doxa orange.

As the model that I have is an "Arret", a model that is stopped to make it easier to photograph, so I cannot comment much on the movement. I have owned a few watches with ETA 2892 movements and have yet to have issues with them. I would expect the modified movement used in the 4000T to be of the highest quality.

Anecdotally, my opinion of the 4000T would seem to be shared by others. The attendees at the recent Atlanta GTG got a firsthand look at the model and a common sentiment was heard over and over, "Wow!, That thing is big but I like it. I don't know that I could pull it off&#8230;" That succinctly sums up my feelings or, at least, my feelings prior to spending a few days with one. I'd advise anyone on the fence about this model to not let the size be the reason to go another direction. If my 6.5'' wrist could pull it off, I would expect it to be even more wearable for the majority of Doxaholics.

Now, on to the pics. I've tried to get them at various angles that show how it looks IRL on a fairly average sized guy, 5'11, 175 lbs, 6.5" wrist. I've also included shots of my 750T for comparison. It has a 44.5mm case where the 4000T has a 47mm case. I have dispensed with any close up macro shots of these models as there are already many available on the forum and Doxa's website, not to mention the fact that my macro shots tend to look like a five year old took them with a 1 megapixel camera while jumping on a trampoline. One more thing, please ignore the gnarled knuckles of a misspent youth.:rodekaart

Regards,

RS

PS. The new SUB 300T-Graph uses the same case\bracelet combination as the 4000T so many of my observations and opinions of this watch would apply there as well. I'll be looking forward to a review of that release once they ship to the guys fortunate enough to score one.:-!

Wrist, 6.5" on the dot...








SUB 4000T...
























SUB 750T...


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## WatchDialOrange (Dec 30, 2011)

Wow Rusty great review and observations!! I may want to trade my 1500T Pro for the 4000T now. I like the bigger case size and it looks like this model would fit my 7 inch wrist just right. Does it have the same orange face color as your 750T? cant tell from the pictures.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

I just looked at them side by side and the orange looks to be the same. If there is a difference, I would say that the 4000T could be a tiny bit lighter but IMO they look the same. I have seen some other Doxa Pro models that have obviously different shades of orange but I'm not seeing that between the 4000T and 750T.

Here are some pics that I took earlier today. The difference in the orange dials looks exagerated here. Under compact fluorescent lights in my house the shades look identical. In these pics the 750T seems to have a more reddish orange color but I do not see it that way in real life.

RS


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## gaopa (Dec 6, 2008)

Nice review, Rusty! Thanks for sharing your observations on the Sub 4000T. That is a good looking watch, but I prefer the size of the 1200T for my 7 1/2" wrist. Cheers, Bill P.


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## WatchDialOrange (Dec 30, 2011)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> I just looked at them side by side and the orange looks to be the same. If there is a difference, I would say that the 4000T could be a tiny bit lighter but IMO they look the same. I have seen some other Doxa Pro models that have obviously different shades of orange but I'm not seeing that between the 4000T and 750T.
> 
> Here are some pics that I took earlier today. The difference in the orange dials looks exagerated here. Under compact fluorescent lights in my house the shades look identical. In these pics the 750T seems to have a more reddish orange color but I do not see it that way in real life.
> 
> ...


Would Love to see what the case size difference is between the 1500T Pro & The 4000T Pro. Like a side by side shot.


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## DaveandStu (Dec 27, 2011)

Hi Rusty, would there be a chance of comparing next to a 300 T-Graph and a couple of photos?
Tks Dave


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## Bigjamesdean (Mar 11, 2009)

WatchDialOrange said:


> Would Love to see what the case size difference is between the 1500T Pro & The 4000T Pro. Like a side by side shot.


I can come extremely close to granting your wish ! How about a 5000t/4000t 

Ignore the crystal plastic cover as I did not realize it was there till after the photo shoot lol, I had laid the watch crystal side down in the foam wear it was and did not notice it had attached itself LOL


























And here's the 4000t on a sligtly more robust wrist


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## WatchDialOrange (Dec 30, 2011)

Thanks Big James Dean!! Looks like the 4000T is a bigger watch that my 1500T pro since its the same case as your 5000 Shark.Ok you want to trade 1500 for 4000


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## Bigjamesdean (Mar 11, 2009)

DaveandStu said:


> Hi Rusty, would there be a chance of comparing next to a 300 T-Graph and a couple of photos?
> Tks Dave


Not to speak for Rusty but exact same case and bracelet so only difference is dial and pushers. 
Unless he has a prototype he would not be able to do side by side as the watch is not due out till June.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

BigJamesDean is correct. The 4000T and new 300T-Graph use a case with the same dimensions. Same for the 1500T and 5000T so his pics of the 5000T next to a 4000T should be a good reference of what a 1500T would look like next to the new T-Graph.

Sorry but the only Doxa watches that I currently have are my 750T, my vintage dress watch, and the 4000T demo so I can't provide any another side by side shots. We have quite a few guys on the forum here with multiple models so fell free to ask for comparison shots. Someone will almost always step up to the plate like BJD did.

Please feel free to keep the questions coming.

RS


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## clonetrooper (May 6, 2009)

The 4000 was the one Doxa I owned, and though I traded her in, I loved that watch, and wouldn't mid getting one again. The bezel action and the orange of the dial are just beautiful. She is a big whopper, but definitely wearable...


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## 24thMED (Jun 11, 2009)

Very nice review. Was nice to see it next to a 750T. Now I want a 4000T even more...


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## dbrad95 (Sep 26, 2007)

Excellent review Rusty. Thanks for taking the time to put that together for us.


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## DaveandStu (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks Rusty and Bigjamesdean,I have 3 T-Graphs can anyone provide a photo of a 2005 600 T-Graph Pro alongside a 4000 for comparison?


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## AAWATCHES (May 2, 2009)

great reviews, only problem is now I gotta start saving my pennies......lol


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## jslocki (Jan 20, 2011)

This is great Rusty. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Doxa's website is useless for getting any real perspective on the differences between the subs. Why would they make the 1200t look like it is the same size as the 4000t? Plus the photos they take don't show off which parts of their watches are brushed and polished etc..basically they look like paintings, not photos. However, your photos are great, especially the wrist shots which gives people a real perspective. That 4000t is a beast! Still not a big fan of the oyster band but I agree with you that it is a good fit with the 4000t.


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## KUNISMAN (Apr 30, 2011)

Great practical review Rusty. It always helps seeing this watches in the real world for a guy to choose what´s best for him. 
On a personal note I don´t mind the "safe dive" feature that much, but I tend to like more the SUB 750T on your wrist more (it kind of feels more like the "vintage" look Doxas are related with).


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## Deacon211 (Oct 24, 2009)

Nic review Rusty! The 4000 is a great watch and very comfortable.

One thing that is different between the 750 and the 4000 is that the 750 is flat orange while the 4000 is gloss orange as are the 1500 and the 800. Personally, I thought it gave the 4000 a lighter and brighter hue than the 750.

Here are a few size comparison shots:




























Deacon


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## Thomas Miko (Oct 25, 2011)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> I just looked at them side by side and the orange looks to be the same. If there is a difference, I would say that the 4000T could be a tiny bit lighter but IMO they look the same. I have seen some other Doxa Pro models that have obviously different shades of orange but I'm not seeing that bet
> 
> Here are some pics that I took earlier today. The difference in the orange dials looks exagerated here. Under compact fluorescent lights in my house the shades look identical. In these pics the 750T seems to have a more reddish orange color but I do not see it that way in real life.
> 
> ...


Once again, my talent for doing everything bass-ackwards has kicked in: I see that what you, Rusty, are talking about in your review is what I then said in my Seiko OM vs Doxa 600T Pro review on my blog: for the 4000 Pro they made the black minute markers bolder (thicker) and therefore more visible, and they backed off from the deep orange to a lighter orange that I bet is easier to see at dusk, and at night. Thanks for putting the 750 next to the 4000. I was thinking of getting the 750 Pro, but now I think that the 4000 will be the one that pleases me squinty, presbyopic eyes.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Deacon211 said:


> Nic review Rusty! The 4000 is a great watch and very comfortable.
> 
> One thing that is different between the 750 and the 4000 is that the 750 is flat orange while the 4000 is gloss orange as are the 1500 and the 800. Personally, I thought it gave the 4000 a lighter and brighter hue than the 750.
> Deacon


Good call about the paint texture on these models Deacon. I believe that you are correct that the gloss finish makes the 4000T appear brighter



Thomas Miko said:


> Once again, my talent for doing everything bass-ackwards has kicked in: I see that what you, Rusty, are talking about in your review is what I then said in my Seiko OM vs Doxa 600T Pro review on my blog: for the 4000 Pro they made the black minute markers bolder (thicker) and therefore more visible, and they backed off from the deep orange to a lighter orange that I bet is easier to see at dusk, and at night. Thanks for putting the 750 next to the 4000. I was thinking of getting the 750 Pro, but now I think that the 4000 will be the one that pleases me squinty, presbyopic eyes.


Thomas, for readability I don't think that you are going to beat the 4000T. The slight difference in dial color\texture and the larger dial make it the most readable Doxa Pro model to date. Add to that the fact that you can still purchase a new one from Doxa rather than waiting around for who knows how long on a 750T Pro to come up for sale and you have a winner. Please keep us posted on your decision and let us know your thoughts on whichever model you decide to get.

RS


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## WatchDialOrange (Dec 30, 2011)

One of the reasons I choose the 1500T was the" Blood Orange" color ( i would call it)of the dial. Most people comment it almost looks Red until they get close enough. I still like the bigger case size of the 4000T and will look to trade for one one on the forums.

Doxa 1500T in Hawaii


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## hoppes-no9 (Jun 13, 2010)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


>


Thanks for the writeup Rusty. Beautiful watch, but too big. I have 7.25" wrists and won't be considering this one.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

hoppes-no9 said:


> Thanks for the writeup Rusty. Beautiful watch, but too big. I have 7.25" wrists and won't be considering this one.


No sweat, it's big enough to not be for everyone. That's what I like about the Doxa product line, just enough variety to keep it interesting while going overboard with changes.

RS


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## subpro300 (Feb 2, 2007)

Sorry Rusty, 

nice review, but such a big watch like the 4000T looks nothing but funny on your wrist, especially when the dial is orange.
I had the same "problem" when I purchased my 750T in 2005. (Btw I'm 6 ft tall, 6.8'' wrists, 140 lbs.)
I found this watch too big for every day use so I soon switched over to the smaller-sized 600T and various vintage Subs who give me more convenience and comfort and of course a better looking.


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## jslocki (Jan 20, 2011)

I think Holger has a point and I'm a guy who finds the vintage subs too small for me. The trend to make watches larger doesn't suit everyone but I'm glad Doxa offers a classic size (1200t) right up to the 4000t. My issue is more the thickness of the case and overall height of the watch on the wrist. The 1200t may have the same size dial as a vintage 300t or 600t but the watch is thicker due to a thicker case and case back that is less flat. Those two things contribute to making the watch sit higher on the wrist. The same can be said for the 5000t and 1500t when you compare it to the 750t which they basically replaced. Is this a better thing? It may make the watch look beefier but in my opinion makes the watch less practical and less comfortable as an everyday watch. What is more important, comfort on your wrist or depth ratings that you can never dive to?


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## subpro300 (Feb 2, 2007)

For daily wear comfort and convenience is most important for me. I don't like it when a watch wobbles around my wrist because of case thickness, weight or other reasons especially when I wear a jacket.


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## WatchDialOrange (Dec 30, 2011)

Rusty I Dont think its a big watch on your wrist. Looks great! Wish I could find a 4000T Pro that someone thought was to big for them



Rusty_Shakleford said:


> No sweat, it's big enough to not be for everyone. That's what I like about the Doxa product line, just enough variety to keep it interesting while going overboard with changes.
> 
> RS


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

I was very surprised at the fact that it was even remotely wearable on my wrist. It was completely unexpected and pleasantly so. As I have my 750T Pro, I'd love to get a hold of a Sharkhunter or, even better, a new 300 T-Graph Sharky...

C'mon lotto!

Seriously though, I shipped it out today so unfortunately it may be a long while before I get to see another one. As it wasn't mine, I did not get to really wear it around. I only put it on a few times and then to take those pics. I did not even size the bracelet out of a concern of scratching it. To take those pics I rolled up some magazine pages and tucked them under the clasp to take up the slack. I really did enjoy the opportunity to see it in person though. I think that the size tends to cause too many people to pass over it when deciding on a Doxa to buy. Hopefully my review allows a few guys to consider it and not miss out one a great watch. 

RS


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## ffeelliixx (May 22, 2007)

I disagree that the watch wears too large on his wrist. But I do agree that a smaller watch is more comfortable and more practical. As somebody that only wears chronos, I really wish Doxa would release a three register chrono the size of the 1200.


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## Thomas Miko (Oct 25, 2011)

jslocki said:


> . Is this a better thing? It may make the watch look beefier but in my opinion makes the watch less practical and less comfortable as an everyday watch. What is more important, comfort on your wrist or depth ratings that you can never dive to?


For me the ability to read the time on the watch (above water) is important. This problem comes up with traditionally-sized Doxa Pros, especially when the orange is too deep i.e. dark. I would guess that the 600T and 1200T -sized Caribbeans and Sharkhunters are easier to read with white markers against a dark background. Since the whole point of having a Doxa is to have an orange one, the 1500 and 4000 Pros look like the minute markers etc are easy to read...


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Thomas Miko said:


> Since the whole point of having a Doxa is to have an orange one, the 1500 and 4000 Pros look like the minute markers etc are easy to read...


I agree but I would also put the 750T Pro in there. The dial\hand combo is basically the same as the 1500T. For anyone that has vision issues reading a watch, the 4000T would be perfect. It would certainly be easier than the classic sized 42mm models.

RS


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## The Watch junkie (Feb 1, 2017)

Just picked one up. 4000t limited edition no 116 on route thanks to Cult Watches


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## reeder1 (Feb 10, 2017)

Rusty- Wow, that 4000T really has way more presence than the 750T! Great review. I have 3 Doxas and want more-the 1500 Project Aware is gorgeous and the 800Ti intrigues me, too. I would love to be able to try them on all at the same place to see for myself and have a better comparison to refine my search.


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