# Ball tritium vs Deep Blue tritium



## Greatsteaks

Left Deep Blue Daynight T100 65 tube

Middle Ball Spacemaster X-lume 80 tube?

Right Ball Hydrocarbon Mad Cow 15 tube?

Not comparing the watch, just the tube layout. In real sight the Deep Blue is the brightest(probably because of the tube color) the Deep Blue and the xlume are both "T" rated and the Mad Cow is T25. I would have thought the T25 would be just as bright considering it has less tubes. Assuming all three watches are as close to maximum tritium(and if my math is correct) the T25 should have more tritium per tube.


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## ~tc~

Amount of tritium does not necessarily indicate brightness. Phosphor does, and as you mention, the color has a huge effect on the perceived brightness.

Also, T25 means <25mCi of tritium, and is required to be legal in the majority of the world. T means more than 25, but less than 100 mCi so you can't really calculate how much more any watch has - T watches can have 26 or 99 mCi - quite a range.

I do have a little beef with DB riding on Ball's coat tails regarding the hard work Ball did petitioning the NRC to get T100 approved.


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## jjt2

The watch on the left looks exactly like the dial of the newest Ball Fireman Night Train also, which glows like a torch.


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## samanator

First green is the brightest tube color, but Ball goes into more color with tri and four color being more common. After your eyes have adjusted I find the green too harsh on the markers and prefer it on the hands only. The Blue seems to be easier on the eye once you adjust. Personally I've always felt the Aviator Dual Time has the best Ball Lume with a tie between the X-Lume or the SC DLC Glow.


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## GatorJ

~tc~ said:


> Amount of tritium does not necessarily indicate brightness. Phosphor does, and as you mention, the color has a huge effect on the perceived brightness.
> 
> Also, T25 means <25mCi of tritium, and is required to be legal in the majority of the world. T means more than 25, but less than 100 mCi so you can't really calculate how much more any watch has - T watches can have 26 or 99 mCi - quite a range.
> 
> I do have a little beef with DB riding on Ball's coat tails regarding the hard work Ball did petitioning the NRC to get T100 approved.


Deep Blue is also incredibly sloppy with the way the deal with the T25 and T100 designations. You frequently find people mistakenly posting about T25 tubes and/or T100 tubes and those people are invariably Deep Blue owners. I've read some statements from DB's owner which strongly suggest even he doesn't fully understand what those designations mean and there are no such thing as T25 or T100 tubes.


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## Greatsteaks

While I have to admitt that initially I was confused about the "T", T100, T25 designation (and to a large degree I still am) I have found Ball also has "T100" printed on some of their watch dials. The whole system really makes no reasonable sence; a T25 watch can have 24.99mlc and a "T" or "T100" can have 25mlc of (tritium?) making both watches for the most part identical as far at the mlc goes. A t25 watch can technically have as little as .001mlc and a T watch can have as much as 100mcl? Or anywhere in between. I'm sure the technicalities have legal reasons behind them. Both Ball and Deep Blue (and others) use this confusion to their advantage for marketing and advertisement purposes. 
Before anyone gets on me about my loose understanding please note that I am no expert in any of this. This is just my understanding of a very confusing (to the average joe) consumer, me.


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## ~tc~

Greatsteaks said:


> The whole system really makes no reasonable sence; a T25 watch can have 24.99mlc and a "T" or "T100" can have 25mlc of (tritium?) making both watches for the most part identical as far at the mlc goes. A t25 watch can technically have as little as .001mlc and a T watch can have as much as 100mcl? Or anywhere in between.


Correct. The reason is because it's a radioactive substance and therefore regulated. The standard all over the world is <25 (except the Netherlands, which bans it completely). Ball extensively researched the regulations and found that in the USA, up to 100 would be allowed under certain conditions, which their watches met, and they did the work to get the necessary licenses.

I agree about the T vs T100 nomenclature and the confusion about "T100/T25 tubes"


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## Citizen V

One thing I've wondered about was why Ball stuck with T100 despite it being a misprint originally. Perhaps they did it to differentiate between T as defined by ISO 3157, and they way they were using it. ISO 3157 says that timepieces can be marked T if they're under 5 mCi and T<25 if less than 25 mCi (this was written at the time when watches were still using tritium paints). Or they may have changed it so it clearly designated the limit. They said this in one interview a couple years ago: "_The designation T is better explained as meaning "self-luminous". While It does not designate a limit, the licensing limit for BALL is 'less than 100mCi'._"

Also, imo Ball doesn't use the whole T25 v T100 to their advantage, at least like other brands. If you look on their website, or in their catalog, there's no mention of T25 or T100 under a watch's features/specs. On the other hand, Deep Blue often uses T100 in their actual model names like Daynight 65 T-100. Android does the same thing with their model names. I've also seen many Android ADs call their tubes "t100 tubes" in their descriptions, but Android USA's actual website doesn't do this. And then there's ISOBrite who really misleads customers on their website: "_Unlike ordinary tritium watches that use T25 tritium illumination, the Isobrite watch uses ultra bright T100 tritium illumination. This makes it 4 times brighter than the competition!_" Ball doesn't do anything like the above AFAIK.


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## MikeCfromLI

Stan owner of deepblue is on these forums perhaps he can chime in . But DB seems to be p e of the more prolific sellers of t watches my DB recon defiantly










has more light than my t 25 luminox but has 4x the tubes. Either way it is a pretty awesome watch


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## Greatsteaks

Ball currently has two versions if their Arabic COSC ii. A t25(I assume for sale out if the US) and a T. I would like to see a side by side lume comparison. I am in the market for the T version only because I'm under the assumption that the T is brighter. Look at the dial on the first picture t25, and the very last picture of the Ball ad T. 
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=321100387963&index=4&nav=WATCHING&nid=75128069268


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## samanator

First I would suggest reading all the material up in the reference area. This also explains the two mismarked watch model. Just to be clear "T" is the proper designations. One thing to note is sometimes Ball makes a T and a T25 version for markets that don't allow over 25mci of tritium. This only applies to watches that are just over the line for the T-25 limit. The Arabic is one of those models. In the case of the Spacemaster and the Spacemaster X-Lume the variance between the two is too much so separate models were made. Ball US decided to offer both here. 

l Sorry DB has not fully embraced GTLS tube watches and has a very limited offering. Using green tubes on one and orange on another does not make it a new model. By count less than 50% of the line even use tubes. DB is currently using both single a two color configurations, no applied markers, no dress watches (OK, I know the name implies mostly divers), and no aviators ...just divers. Ball has 13 real T level models in may styles, and every watch has tubes in the current line. Dress watches look funny with too much lume and it's nice to see offerings like the Legend that don't go overboard with the lume and ruin the watch. I'll stick with my statement no one does tubes better than Ball. 

As a note I believe MB micro tech the tube manufacturer actually holds the T-100 license that these other brands use. Balls still are license by the T which is exclusive to Ball.


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## samanator

MikeCfromLI said:


> Stan owner of deepblue is on these forums perhaps he can chime in .


 He's welcome if he wants to talk about Ball watches?


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## samanator

Greatsteaks said:


> Ball currently has two versions if their Arabic COSC ii. A t25(I assume for sale out if the US) and a T. I would like to see a side by side lume comparison. I am in the market for the T version only because I'm under the assumption that the T is brighter. Look at the dial on the first picture t25, and the very last picture of the Ball ad T.
> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=321100387963&index=4&nav=WATCHING&nid=75128069268


I seriously doubt you would notice it. Chances are is is just a minuet gain in length or width on the marker tubes and the hands that makes the difference between markets. Remember 25.001mci makes it a T watch while 24.999 is still a T-25.


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## Greatsteaks

samanator said:


> I seriously doubt you would notice it. Chances are is is just a minuet gain in length or width on the marker tubes and the hands that makes the difference. Remember 25.001mci makes it a T watch.


That is why I wish there was a better scale or something. One might want the brightest possible dial and as stated above, might want a toned down lume on a dressier watch. I'm a lume freak and want the brightest lume possible dress watch or diver. I have a Ball X-lume and a Mad Cow and to honest with you the T25 Mad Cow dial is not bright enough for me. I looking for a brighter ("T"?) dial with the day, date, and 3 all at the 3 o'clock position. Picky SOB aren't I! If the X-lume had the 3 on it I'd have my grail! (For at least a week)


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## ~tc~

samanator said:


> I'll stick with my statement no one does tubes better than Ball.


X2 - I would almost say lume in general, not just tubes


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## Greatsteaks

~tc~ said:


> X2 - I would almost say lume in general, not just tubes


Bo knows football, Seiko knows lume. (Non tritium)


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## MikeCfromLI

samanator said:


> He's welcome if he wants to talk about Ball watches?


The topic mentions two companies at least as I read


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## samanator

Greatsteaks said:


> That is why I wish there was a better scale or something. One might want the brightest possible dial and as stated above, might want a toned down lume on a dressier watch. I'm a lume freak and want the brightest lume possible dress watch or diver. I have a Ball X-lume and a Mad Cow and to honest with you the T25 Mad Cow dial is not bright enough for me. I looking for a brighter ("T"?) dial with the day, date, and 3 all at the 3 o'clock position. Picky SOB aren't I! If the X-lume had the 3 on it I'd have my grail! (For at least a week)


That's pretty easy to determine. All tubes are really the same intensity so brightness comes from surface area and color. Longer, fatter tubes will look brighter or doubled up tubes will also give the effect. Green is the brightest then blue, amber orange and red based on how the eye sees. That beings said coming from conventional lume tubes actually look brighter the more your eyes adjust at night, so they are the reverse of conventional lume. Concentrate the tubes on a smaller light colored dial (More reflective) and you get a very bright watch. While I prefer the blue to the green once my eyes adjust, the green would be brighter. It also depends on the level of information you wish to read. While the Spacemaster has a lot of tubes I never found it the brightest, but it does communicate a lot of information in the dark. I can tell you that my wife's white dial lady Arabic is one of the brightest watches I've ever seen. It is mostly green concentrated on a very small white/silver dial.


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## samanator

MikeCfromLI said:


> The topic mentions two companies at least as I read


Yes, but this is the Ball forum, I would not call in when he is on ShopNBC and discuss Ball watches.


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## samanator

Greatsteaks said:


> That is why I wish there was a better scale or something. One might want the brightest possible dial and as stated above, might want a toned down lume on a dressier watch. I'm a lume freak and want the brightest lume possible dress watch or diver. I have a Ball X-lume and a Mad Cow and to honest with you the T25 Mad Cow dial is not bright enough for me. I looking for a brighter ("T"?) dial with the day, date, and 3 all at the 3 o'clock position. Picky SOB aren't I! If the X-lume had the 3 on it I'd have my grail! (For at least a week)


According to sources at Ball a few years ago, you could not put even the smallest tube made on the X-lume without exceeding 100mci limit. So an X-Cow is not possible.


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## MikeCfromLI

samanator said:


> Yes, but this is the Ball forum, I would not call in when he is on ShopNBC and discuss Ball watches.


Once it was a comparison thread I'd say fair game.


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## Fatz028

If you want a Japanese watch then go with a Seiko. Ball makes a far better watch then Deep Blue and Seiko in my book. Though I heard the Grand Seiko's are really nice. Some Deep Blues are Swiss and some are Japanese made. Sorry if I came off to harsh before.


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## MikeCfromLI

I withdraw form this conversation as butterfly wings once touched cannot gain flight.



MikeCfromLI said:


> Once it was a comparison thread I'd say fair game.


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## singlemalt_18

At one time it was believed that the full Moon induced odd behavior in some individuals by providing too much light during nights which would otherwise be dark&#8230; this was known as lunacy. It appears that Ball watches too, by providing light in circumstances that would otherwise remain dark, can also induce odd behavior;* perhaps we could call that lumacy?*

Actually, I'm reminded of the scene in _This Is Spinal Tap_ where Nigel Tufnel is showing off his Custom Marshall amp, and proudly points to the knobs declaring *"Look, these go to 11!"*


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## Granite3

I own 3 Deep Blue's and one Ball.

The Ball is the Engineer Diver II in black face, the DB's are the Night Ops and the Flat tube version of it, and the T-65.

The first 2 listed DB's are at least 3 times the Lume as my Ball, and the T-65 is equal to the Ball.

Fit and finish of the Ball is about 3 times that of the DB, but so is the price point.

Different strokes for different folks.


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