# Doxa Sale?



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

No idea what's going on or if Jomashop is totally reliable, they seem to be legit, but if it is and you are in the market for a SUB, this is the place to go.



https://www.jomashop.com/search?q=doxa


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Damn, some pretty nice pricing for sure.


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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

None of the Doxas on Joma appear to be in stock. The "ships in 3 - 5 weeks" messaging means they don't have it and possibly (likely) never will. Given that, they can list these vapor watches for whatever crazy prices strike their fancy.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> None of the Doxas on Joma appear to be in stock. The "ships in 3 - 5 weeks" messaging means they don't have it and possibly (likely) never will. Given that, they can list these vapor watches for whatever crazy prices strike their fancy.


+1, I don't see how they can offer them at those prices.


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

I've bought a few watches from JOMO over the years. 3 to 5 weeks doesn't bother me. they are 100% reliable.


Edit: By the end of August 2022 I am no longer a fan. They treated us (Doxa brigade) like crap and offer an insult for our troubles.

I'm out. I will spend my money elsewhere.


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

😣 oh man just bought another one preowned at a higher price, well heck I got a bunch of extras and traded another so it wasn’t so bad. 
My experience with Jomashop has been positive in the past (though I’ve never purchased a Doxa from them), however I have read stories of Jomashop cancelling orders and/or longer than expected lead times. I guess we will see what happens next; parallel or grey resellers will always happen with any brand that is big enough, and I guess Doxa has reached that level which is a good thing but obviously comes with caveats.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Maybe this was a very early April Fools joke the Doc was playing on us? 🤷‍♂️


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## riff raff (Dec 28, 2015)

I've also purchased two watches from Jomashop in the past several years, and both were great experiences (Hamilton and my Longines Skin Diver, which was $500 less than competitors).
I noticed the Doxa watches as well in their recent ads. Curiously, they don't list Doxa as a search brand.
I wouldn't hesitate to order from them again.


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

After seeing the prices, they have priced them exactly at preowned rates or at their real value. I know because I have been buying a bunch of them and interestingly enough they are on point with the perceived market value of these pieces. Case in point, the LE Aqua Lung Carbon is at the sweet spot of $3450, or the 300t is at $1,395 (a very good deal!) or even the COSC 300s are at $1850 and the carbons at $2850. Whoever priced them did their homework. I am pretty sure a lot of folks are not going to be happy while others have an amazing opportunity to snag BNIB Doxas at a great deal.


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

Seems to good to be true……. And you know what they say about that.


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## Medusa (Feb 6, 2010)

Wrong info edit.


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Medusa said:


> The official DOXA website has similar on sale pricing.


huh? where are you seeing that?

Interesting Jomashop. Even the elusive t graph is there for a huge discount! ouch!


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Medusa said:


> The official DOXA website has similar on sale pricing.


Am I missing something? Example Above = Doxa US site. Below = Jomashop


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## Medusa (Feb 6, 2010)

TraserH3 said:


> huh? where are you seeing that?
> 
> Interesting Jomashop. Even the elusive t graph is there for a huge discount! ouch!


Sorry! 300 300t mix up. I'll edit.


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

no worries. Wow even the LE aqualung carbon is on sale!!!


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

TraserH3 said:


> no worries. Wow even the LE aqualung carbon is on sale!!!


Yup! When I bought mine at $3900 preowned I thought I was getting a steal 😢


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

I may have to pull the trigger on my first 300T.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

I will venture a guess that they are trying to move inventory that doesn't sell as much as other Doxas. Notice the steep discount isn't on every single model, just certain ones. For example, the orange-faced 300T with metal bracelet isn't offered, it's just the rubber-bracelet 300T Professional. Nor are there any 600s or 1500Ts.


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

valerian839 said:


> I will venture a guess that they are trying to move inventory that doesn't sell as much as other Doxas. Notice the steep discount isn't on every single model, just certain ones. For example, the orange-faced 300T with metal bracelet isn't offered, it's just the rubber-bracelet 300T Professional. Nor are there any 600s or 1500Ts.


 it looks like its all models. Just click on the orange 300T with rubber, then you'll a selection option for the one with bracelet.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Bubble popped


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

TraserH3 said:


> it looks like its all models. Just click on the orange 300T with rubber, then you'll a selection option for the one with bracelet.


QUIET, BEFORE MY WALLET HEARS YOU!!!!!


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Problem is that if that is the case, they are undercutting the prices on their own site but what is worse, they are undercutting WOS who they have partnered with and have been promoting the brand with instore displays.

Obviously, I have no idea what is going on or why Doxa have done this / allowed this to happen, but if I was Mr WOS and I didn't know this was happening, I'd be a bit miffed.

I'm still not convinced all is as it seems because as far as I know WOS is the excusive dealer in the USA for Doxa and I would doubt Jomashop is buying these from overseas. heck, who knows.



valerian839 said:


> I will venture a guess that they are trying to move inventory that doesn't sell as much as other Doxas. Notice the steep discount isn't on every single model, just certain ones. For example, the orange-faced 300T with metal bracelet isn't offered, it's just the rubber-bracelet 300T Professional. Nor are there any 600s or 1500Ts.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Is the Doxa 300 any better than the Seestern 300?


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## riff raff (Dec 28, 2015)

BobMartian said:


> Is the Doxa 300 any better than the Seestern 300?


About $1,500 better. Doc has reviewed the Seestern here (and other homages), you'll have to draw your own conclusions. "Better value" might be a better choice of words.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> Is the Doxa 300 any better than the Seestern 300?


I say yes, based on the movement alone.

I have owned two recent Doxas with the ETA 2824-2 movement and several Seikos with the NH35 movement. The ETA movements were superbly accurate, the Seikos not so much. Some of the Seikos lost several minutes a week. No thanks, I now prefer Swiss.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> Is the Doxa 300 any better than the Seestern 300?


I'd venture to say in movement only perhaps. If you can live with accuracy of the NH35 specs, than you're saving a hell of a lot of money.


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## valuewatchguy (Jun 16, 2012)

delivers in 3 to 5 weeks is Joma-speak for "i dont have your watch, I could get it in 3 to 5 weeks, but then I might not and i'll just tell you it will just be another 2 weeks, I may never get it, but I'll hold onto your money the whole time"


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## valuewatchguy (Jun 16, 2012)

BobMartian said:


> Is the Doxa 300 any better than the Seestern 300?


Yes in terms of overall fit but the gap isn't thousands. The movement is better but thats a couple hundred at most. Doxa is an over priced brand in my opinion you are paying for the heritage of the brand mostly. Its not a bad watch at all but not worth what they chargfe for it. All that being said I would buy the Doxa over a Seestern clone.


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Problem is that if that is the case, they are undercutting the prices on their own site but what is worse, they are undercutting WOS who they have partnered with and have been promoting the brand with instore displays.
> 
> Obviously, I have no idea what is going on or why Doxa have done this / allowed this to happen, but if I was Mr WOS and I didn't know this was happening, I'd be a bit miffed.
> 
> I'm still not convinced all is as it seems because as far as I know WOS is the excusive dealer in the USA for Doxa and I would doubt Jomashop is buying these from overseas. heck, who knows.


my first thought is Joma is working with WOS to clear some stock.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

I can't seem to buy one. It's just a dead click when ordering.


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## Dark Overlord (Jul 18, 2016)

Jomashop is pretty much the biggest grey market retailer out there. They've been around for a while.
You don't get the Brand warranty, sometimes they don't have the item in stock and you have to wait, if you need service they sometimes can't guarantee original parts.

on the flip side you get the watch at a great price. I'm very much pro AD but I would buy grey for a really great deal on a non in-house movement.

In house movement, I want the factory warranty


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

Ticktocker said:


> I can't seem to buy one. It's just a dead click when ordering.


Works for me. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Absolutely not. I now know for certain that WOS are not involved.



TraserH3 said:


> my first thought is Joma is working with WOS to clear some stock.


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## Rojote (Oct 30, 2009)

People who go to AD’s really do not generally have positive opinions of Joma or others Greys. lol…..


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## jstancato (Sep 30, 2020)

I’m waiting for the 600t to hit jomashop! 😂


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Joma does charge you on the spot, so I guess you're loaning them a couple grand for 3 to 5 weeks!


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## slcnate (11 mo ago)

Where is this Joma run out of? Color me curious.


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## NedM (Nov 30, 2018)

slcnate said:


> Where is this Joma run out of? Color me curious.


When I’ve bought in the past they’ve come from Brooklyn, NY. Who knows where before that though.


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## slcnate (11 mo ago)

Evidently Brooklyn based - Jomashop Review: A Guide to the Grey Market Watch Seller


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## NedM (Nov 30, 2018)

This is the exact post I’ve been looking for…and it seems no one knows what’s going on! Hope someone does. That 300T deal is a steal.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> None of the Doxas on Joma appear to be in stock. The "ships in 3 - 5 weeks" messaging means they don't have it and possibly (likely) never will. Given that, they can list these vapor watches for whatever crazy prices strike their fancy.


This is so. I've absolutely been burned by this with a couple of Certinas I tried to purchase.


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## valuewatchguy (Jun 16, 2012)

NedM said:


> This is the exact post I’ve been looking for…and it seems no one knows what’s going on! Hope someone does. That 300T deal is a steal.


It appears that they’re readying their site in preparation to actually have some in inventory at some point


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## nanuq (Oct 6, 2008)

BobMartian said:


> Is the Doxa 300 any better than the Seestern 300?


I have the Seestern and the Maranez clones, and an original 60s Black Lung. The Maranez is better than the Seestern and IMO every bit as good as the vintage Doxa. The Maranez is too tall by a smidgen and lacks the Plexi crystal, but its band is 100x better as well as its screw down crown. My NH movements are all accurate to less than 1 minute over a week. And I can replace an NH for $30, not so a Swiss ETA. And I take my Maranez in the ocean, not so the BL.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

Isn't Doxa releasing new models in April? Perhaps this has something to do with the sale? 

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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

BobMartian said:


> Is the Doxa 300 any better than the Seestern 300?


Can't compare to the Seestern but I have a Maranez and, in hand, there is a quite a difference IMHO - (as someone else posted) which one is better value is a personal thing. 
No such movement on price in the UK/EU though when I bought a 300T a couple of years ago I did get a 20% discount from the UK online retailer. It could be argued that these Jomas prices are a more realistic price point .... or perhaps the actual sales figures for Doxas aren't that good lately....its a pretty big range now with each model in all the colours....perhaps the homages have had an effect? On the other hand perhaps Jomas have seen the popularity of the homages and sniff an opportunity to shift some of the real thing by cutting margins?? Who knows...interesting though - that 200 Tgraph gets more realistic if the prices translated to the UK...


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Why does everything have to have ulterior motives? Isn’t it just a sale (an uncommon one I know). 
I bought a 300t at similar sale price from Jura back in 2020.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Flyingdoctor said:


> No idea what's going on or if Jomashop is totally reliable, they seem to be legit, but if it is and you are in the market for a SUB, this is the place to go.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.jomashop.com/search?q=doxa


Thanks for the heads up. I have ordered from them prior. They sometimes cannot procure the watch and they refund you right away. It can be frustrating at times but that comes with the grey market.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

TraserH3 said:


> it looks like its all models. Just click on the orange 300T with rubber, then you'll a selection option for the one with bracelet.


Looks like the bracelet is no longer available and only on strap.


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## lanjim (Nov 23, 2015)

I've tried to order two watches from them with their multi week lead time. Neither ever materialized. Joma is great if it's in stock or less than a week lead time. Anything outside of that has been a pipedream from me. 

Sent from my SM-F711U1 using Tapatalk


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

Worst case scenario is that they have your money for a short while and refund you if they can't come up with the goods. 
Best case, you get a Doxa for a bargain price.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

They only hold the amount. Which will time out after a few days. You won’t be charged until the watch ships.


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

BobMartian said:


> They only hold the amount. Which will time out after a few days. You won’t be charged until the watch ships.


you pay in full at check out!


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## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

Rolling the dice and ordered the 300T Aquamarine ... as Seikonut mentioned, at worst, I have my money refunded and if it pans outs, a 300T at a great deal. Crossing my fingers. 🤞


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

It’s a temporary authorization hold. The hold will expire if the order is never fulfilled.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Use discount code “extra50” to take $50 off


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

Yeah... Seems like there's no risk. Just order it with a credit card in case it goes sideway. Do I go Divingstar or Searambler 300T. Correct me of I'm wrong but I didn't see a Professional 300T on bracelet? 

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## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

Yeah, I don't see the Professional 300T on bracelet but the Professional 300 on bracelet is still available.


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## PolishX (Nov 12, 2007)

Been trying to find a Sub 1200 Professional for a while but a Sub 300 Professional at $1850 works for me


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

PolishX said:


> Been trying to find a Sub 1200 Professional for a while but a Sub 300 Professional at $1850 works for me


Grab it then bro... If we're talking about Rolex/Omega/Breitling...i wouldn't suggest it on Joma. But for this price with this serviceable movement, it's like a no brainer. I'm gonna take the plunge myself. Love the brand/heritage/unique look. 

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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

I'd love to be proven wrong but I would be shocked if any of these watches materialze from Joma at these prices. Make sure to post in this thread if you actually secure a watch from them at the advertised price.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

If I do, I promise I'll post. The only thing holding me back is the news that within 1-2 months is a new range of Doxa watches! 

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## Dark Overlord (Jul 18, 2016)

If they had the 1500t I'd consider it. The risk is low to me as long as we're not talking about in-house movements.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Anyone know of any new models being released? Any renderings? Doxa has not been active on twitter sine 2019. 


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

I'm not sure there would be a new line of Doxa Sub in the works. 
A Doxa Sub is a Doxa Sub, very codified, and they're not going to 'reinvent the wheel' over and over again. 
Apart from models that would take up certain codes from the Aubry period (and taken over by the Sub600T: ceramic bezel, shark tooth markers, for exemple) I don't really see what could be introduced.
And this would certainly not be enough to justify/explain such a discount on the current lineup.


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

I ended up ordering a 300t Caribbean. Why the hell not. As for the "new model" coming out I am willing to bet its either the Army reissue or a GMT reissue (which I am hoping for).


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## Sohl (Feb 21, 2015)

No deeply discounted solid gold T-Graph? Disappointed...


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

JIFB said:


> I'm not sure there would be a new line of Doxa Sub in the works.
> A Doxa Sub is a Doxa Sub, very codified, and they're not going to 'reinvent the wheel' over and over again.
> Apart from models that would take up certain codes from the Aubry period (and taken over by the Sub600T: ceramic bezel, shark tooth markers, for exemple) I don't really see what could be introduced.
> And this would certainly not be enough to justify/explain such a discount on the current lineup.



I’ve seen watch companies kill one design into shreds a la panerai. I agree that all has been done with the 300 model. 

Maybe they will do a dress line like in their past perhaps. 


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

It would be nice to see something original and modern from Doxa. Like what Eterna has done with the KonTiki


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## flylock (Apr 23, 2008)

I would like to see a full Lume dial on the 300 and 300t


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Absolutely spot on. Doxa will not stop selling the 300T and 300 as they are. They may introduce a very limited edition Cussler 300T with no HEV and maybe a few subtle changes like no Jenny fish on the crown....well, we can live in hope or the Army or maybe even a new GMT with a properly centered GMT outer ring, but these are just guesses on my part.

Not sure we will ever find out what the story is with the Jomashop. Doxa would know but they ain't saying. We will know in 5 or 6 weeks if the watches actually exist and are shipped, but assuming they are, I doubt very much the deal is because Doxa will stop making the 300T and 300 as they are now.

No matter what the reason is, if everything is on the level and the watches ship, it was a golden opportunity to pick up a Doxa SUB for a very keen price.



JIFB said:


> I'm not sure there would be a new line of Doxa Sub in the works.
> A Doxa Sub is a Doxa Sub, very codified, and they're not going to 'reinvent the wheel' over and over again.
> Apart from models that would take up certain codes from the Aubry period (and taken over by the Sub600T: ceramic bezel, shark tooth markers, for exemple) I don't really see what could be introduced.
> And this would certainly not be enough to justify/explain such a discount on the current lineup.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Absolutely spot on. Doxa will not stop selling the 300T and 300 as they are. They may introduce a very limited edition Cussler 300T with no HEV and maybe a few subtle changes like no Jenny fish on the crown....


Let’s hope it’s a more limited edition than the 50th anniversary SUB300 was…


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## raymondgrazi (Oct 24, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> No idea what's going on or if Jomashop is totally reliable, they seem to be legit, but if it is and you are in the market for a SUB, this is the place to go.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.jomashop.com/search?q=doxa


Jomashop is reliable. Likely they are pre-selling incoming inventory. Never had a problem with them, always legit goods. 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

I'm gonna hold out until the next Doxa release. Depending on what they come out with, I'll make my decision then. Looking forward to acquiring my first Doxa though.

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## skingwatch (Sep 14, 2009)

Will see if it's too good to be true or not! Placed an order for a Sub300...


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

I bought two 300Ts before it sold out. One for my brother. Hope he likes it if it comes through. 


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## Doxa Watches Official (Feb 25, 2021)

Dear DOXA Fans,

DOXA considers its bond of trust with official retailers worldwide and through its exclusive distribution network for providing the best service and advice to customers and aficionados of DOXA watches.

Additionally, DOXA protects the well-perceived value of correct pricing, product authenticity, and origin. Jomashop has no legitimacy or official permission to sell DOXA watches and is not part of DOXA’s authorized distribution network. Consequently, any warranty issued by Jomashop is considered void.

As DOXA has a secret tracking path of every watch, where they are being sold to, any mishandling found in our network will have to deal with immediate consequences.

Furthermore, for weeks, DOXA has been testing orders (through third parties) at Jomashop. Despite the correspondence that the watches will be available soon, no deliveries have yet been received. We would be very grateful if you have experienced otherwise to reach out to us.

Thank you for your understanding and support.

Your DOXA team


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> As DOXA has a secret tracking path of every watch, where they are being sold to, any mishandling found in our network will have to deal with immediate consequences.


hmmm.... I hope it's not a GPS tracking device


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Dear DOXA Fans,
> 
> DOXA considers its bond of trust with official retailers worldwide and through its exclusive distribution network for providing the best service and advice to customers and aficionados of DOXA watches.
> 
> ...


For some odd reason, this statement makes me want to purchase more from jomashop. 


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

Has anyone called Jomashop to ask the question? Where are these Doxa watches that they are promising coming from?
I almost bit and thought about a Sub 300 but I hesitated because Doxa has never allowed anything like what's happening on Jomashop and it all seems fishy. I think Doxa would have put them on sale at Doxa.com instead of making them available to a grey market outlet. If I had made a Doxa purchase, I would be very suspicious of it's origin or legitimacy and I would contact Joma to ask some relevant questions. Especially since they don't even have them in stock.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Dear DOXA Fans,
> 
> Jomashop has no legitimacy or official permission to sell DOXA watches and is not part of DOXA’s authorized distribution network. Consequently, any warranty issued by Jomashop is considered void.
> 
> Your DOXA team


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## Ot1S (Apr 18, 2018)

Happy to read the Doxa response 😀 👍 
The 300 is my most expensive purchase and it made me a little sick to my stomach that Joma is putting my precious into the sales bin....

And before anyone will respond with.........well get a other color then ....
That wouldn't work because my order would have to get shipped to Europe and so my discount would be only marginal.
One of the reasons I like brands like Doxa is that there are no discounts like other brands and webshops.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

usc1 said:


> For some odd reason, this statement makes me want to purchase more from jomashop.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because they monitor the delivery of their merchandise? I expect that any manufacturer/seller do that?


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

MadsNilsson said:


> Because they monitor the delivery of their merchandise? I expect that any manufacturer/seller do that?


Yup. Exactly. Spot on. 


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Jomashop selling without manufacturer authorization and no warranty is their business model.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

BobMartian said:


> Jomashop selling without manufacturer authorization and no warranty is their business model.


Indeed it is. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

usc1 said:


> Yup. Exactly. Spot on.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That’s pretty tinfoil-hat of you. If you think any package you buy is untracked then you might be surprised.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

MadsNilsson said:


> That’s pretty tinfoil-hat of you. If you think any package you buy is untracked then you might be surprised.


without knowledge? if i ever get the watch, a big if, should i briskly send the serial numbers to doxa? will the watch police come arrest me at my home? i am very frightened.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

So are Doxa saying that any watches bought from Jomas won't have a Doxa warranty? Surely the warranty is issued by Doxa not the retailer?


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

In all fairness, customers have been complaining about QC issues, poor service, poor after sales, obvious flaws, and various other issues. Only now that Jomashop are offering cheap Doxa models do Doxa come out with a statement. No response at all to the aforementioned problems, but whoa betide anyone selling the brand without their prior knowledge. Yes i totally understand the implications of Jomashop's sales of Doxa. What irks is that Doxa totally blanks its customers concerns and complaints about its models. Let's have it right, these are not cheap watches, but seems like the customers are getting little to no response of their concerns. Yes I do have Doxa's in my collection just incase anyone thinks I'm just bashing the brand.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

Personally, I'd have no problem buying a Doxa through Joma. Yes, you aren't getting the Doxa warrantee (it would have to go through Joma), but it's an ETA movement that can be serviced anywhere. And with their discounted pricing, it makes Doxa look much more attractive to me. 

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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

heineken4u said:


> Personally, I'd have no problem buying a Doxa through Joma. Yes, you aren't getting the Doxa warrantee (it would have to go through Joma), but it's an ETA movement that can be serviced anywhere. And with their discounted pricing, it makes Doxa look much more attractive to me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


I concur. That is one of the risks with the grey market but worth taking 2/2 the cost savings.


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

usc1 said:


> without knowledge? if i ever get the watch, a big if, should i briskly send the serial numbers to doxa? will the watch police come arrest me at my home? i am very frightened.


Did you proof read before you hit “reply”?


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

MadsNilsson said:


> Did you proof read before you hit “reply”?


Did you? The punctuation should be inside the quotation marks for the word "reply." Also, proofread is one word.


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## roberev (Mar 15, 2006)

8505davids said:


> So are Doxa saying they any watches bought from Jomas won't have a Doxa warranty? Surely the warranty is issued by Doxa not the retailer?


Many of the brands that Jomashop sells are sold with Jomashop's warranty, not the manufacturer's warranty. For what it's worth, Jomashop has proven itself trustworthy in honoring its warranty. If it truly can come through with Doxas at this price, but with its own shop warranty, I wouldn't hesitate to buy.

Rob


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

BobMartian said:


> Jomashop selling without manufacturer authorization and no warranty is their business model.


agree on the no warranty but a resaler of a watch needs to get manufacturer authorization???🧐


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Dear DOXA Fans,
> 
> DOXA considers its bond of trust with official retailers worldwide and through its exclusive distribution network for providing the best service and advice to customers and aficionados of DOXA watches.
> 
> ...


sounds like some AD or distributor based outside of US will be punished? Flyingdoc mentioned it’s not the sole AD in the US.

also the fact that certain models sold out at Joma means they’re tracking inventory and have specific inventory (although not on hand) for each model. Why would Joma bother with that if this whole thing is made up. I think we’ll see the orders being fulfilled. The real mystery is which AD couldn’t hold on anymore and had to unload inventory.


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

I pulled the trigger. Now anxiously await a 300t diving star.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Interesting response. 

*"Jomashop has no legitimacy or official permission to sell DOXA watches and is not part of DOXA’s authorized distribution network. Consequently, any warranty issued by Jomashop is considered void."*

This implies to me that Jomashop may have or will have the watches. If they bought the watches from a supplier, they don't need any official permission to sell them.

Then they say this.....

*"Furthermore, for weeks, DOXA has been testing orders (through third parties) at Jomashop. Despite the correspondence that the watches will be available soon, no deliveries have yet been received."*

Why would Doxa even say this. Doxa make the watches and sell them either directly or through a distributer. Unless the distributer buys a load and pays up front, Doxa will know exactly if and when a distributor will cease to be one and they will take back the watches. 

If someone who wasn't a distributor bought a shedload of watches then Doxa would also know this. It sounds like they know exactly what is going on but don't want to say because, well, kinda embarrassing for them to lose a distributer. I do know that WOS have placed several orders, maybe this is the we who Doxa is talking about.

The warranty issue could be problematic in years to come. ETA / Sellita movements are easy to get parts for and service so you don't need Doxa but if you trash a crown or bezel you could be screwed because when you send it back to Doxa to get it replaced they say..."dodgy serial number, ain't happening bud". You can only get crowns, bezels etc from Doxa.

Ultimately it boils down to whether Jomashop has or will have the watches to sell. If not, then their credibility went down the pan. Why would a legitimate and reputable business do that? If they do have the watches, then Doxa know where they are coming from.

Time and Tide show they still have SUBs for sale so it is doubtful they have offloaded the watches and they are definitely not from WOS. I think there is / was a UK distributor, not sure about other countries.

All very intriguing. Obviously, the hundreds of people that Doxa employ aren't very good at keeping track of stock


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Interesting. To me it sounds like one of Doxa’s dealers made an agreement with Joma to offload some of their stock. 

Not exactly surprising Doxa wouldn’t want that to occur, hence them doing some sleuthing and trying to buy watches from Joma inconspicuously. Guessing they’re planning on matching serial numbers to out that dealer.


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

A lot of things could be happening.
A dealer could be going under and liquidating their stock.
which puts doxa in a bad position, they want to buy that stock back at pennies on the dollar and joma is willing to buy at their cost. They were bought by an AD and now will not honor a warranty.

doxa could easily have made a big buy to Joma. Last years or not moving color etc. and then their ADs got pissed. And now they are trying to still do the deal and not piss off the AD.

the other bigger issue. Is assuming these are 100% legit. If Doxa refuses to service their legit product even as non warranty support. It could REALLY make them loose a lot of credibility. “Doxa makes a crappy product AND refuses to support it”. Is not something any manufacturer wants out there. Even less so with a very small company with essentially a cult-ish niche following.

Homest question. What does Doxa actually make? Do they make the movements? Do they make their own cases? Dials? Hands? Or, do they out source these to contractors and merely bring in the parts, assemble and finish?


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## W123 (Oct 15, 2007)

Great, now put some of the straps on sale please, ain't spending 250$ on a measly rubber strap


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

Don’t ever try to return something to Joma. I had to call them weekly and finally got action after involving Paypal. Took four months total. Warranty is through their in-house crew too.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Short answer

Doxa are owned by the Jenny family of Jenny Caribbean and Jenny fish history. They also own Walca which manufactures cases and parts for a number of brands including Doxa. Walca is located in Switzerland and Hong Kong. 

Doxa don't make movements. They used to buy ETA before Swatch which owns ETA stopped selling outside the Swatch group and now they buy Sellita movements.



seanc01 said:


> Homest question. What does Doxa actually make? Do they make the movements? Do they make their own cases? Dials? Hands? Or, do they out source these to contractors and merely bring in the parts, assemble and finish?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Actually, it will be interesting to see if Doxa would service a Joma / grey market watch. Omega do and they have a long history of grey market watches. Joma aren't doing anything illegal, presumably they are buying an AD's stock at discount. Doxa may not like it, but this stuff happens all the time for everything, not just watches.


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## 19thnervousbreakdown (Dec 1, 2021)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Dear DOXA Fans,
> 
> DOXA considers its bond of trust with official retailers worldwide and through its exclusive distribution network for providing the best service and advice to customers and aficionados of DOXA watches.
> 
> ...


What really annoys me: There is almost no communication from Doxa within the forums. Doxa manufactures a niche product within a niche. I really love my SUB300 and I think its a really nicely made watch. But you only hear from Doxa when the Community finds something that isnt liked by Doxa. They certainly read all of the posts on here but only take time to answer to specific stuff, like a Sale going on or an Army ehm Military being released. I really wish they would involve theirself a little bit more. They are no Rolex yet... Doxa is an enthusiasts brand and will forever be one.

But hey, still nice that they reached out and clarified that Jomashop apparently will ship the watches and that its not a fraud. Butt still: @Doxa Watches Official Marketing Department you have to improve! Dont forget your modern roots, they are in the forums 



NeurosciGuy15 said:


> Not exactly surprising Doxa wouldn’t want that to occur, hence them doing some sleuthing and trying to buy watches from Joma inconspicuously. Guessing they’re planning on matching serial numbers to out that dealer.


Thats probably what they are trying to achieve. And we dont know what the contract between the AD and Doxa was, so maybe they are right to find out and make sure this doesnt happen again... we don´t know.



W123 said:


> Great, now put some of the straps on sale please, ain't spending 250$ on a measly rubber strap


Just get the Isofrane, its the real deal, more comfy and way cheaper. And it looks superb on a Doxa SUB! The OEM Rubber seams really stiff around the lugs... its definitely no 250$ strap


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

These are a good deal. Let me know if a 1500T pops up.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

When I had a problem with date alignment on my Doxa I don’t recall any support from them other than blaming ETA so can’t really see what the practical difference would be buying through Joma - other than more realistic pricing; does it really cost almost £1,500 more to produce a SUB300 than it does a SUB200?
The Doxa post also triggered my pet hate of individuals signing off marketing material as ‘the team’; either sign it off as a named individual or don’t bother with a cheesy ‘the team’ sign-off at all.
Cheers from the adg31 team!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

adg31 said:


> When I had a problem with date alignment on my Doxa I don’t recall any support from them other than blaming ETA so can’t really see what the practical difference would be buying through Joma - other than more realistic pricing; does it really cost almost £1,500 more to produce a SUB300 than it does a SUB200?
> The Doxa post also triggered my pet hate of individuals signing off marketing material as ‘the team’; either sign it off as a named individual or don’t bother with a cheesy ‘the team’ sign-off at all.
> Cheers from the adg31 team!
> 
> ...


My guess is that there is no direct link between the production cost and the retail price. It would be much too simple. That being said, everybody is free to buy a Sub 200 instead of a Sub 300. Not sure if you did so though


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## ohhenry1 (Jan 7, 2018)

Ordered a Sub 300 Searambler. Would not have known about the deal had it not been for this thread. Thank you, OP! Here's hoping that it actually ships. Will be a nice treat if it does.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

JIFB said:


> My guess is that there is no direct link between the production cost and the retail price. It would be much too simple. That being said, everybody is free to buy a Sub 200 instead of a Sub 300. Not sure if you did so though


I bought a pair of the original ‘limited edition’ SUB300 reissue; I got rid of both the first due to a mismatched date window the other went when they reintroduced the SUB300.
Based on my experience of their customer service I can’t see what practical difference it would make if purchasing through Joma - but even at that price unfortunately I’m still not interested in buying back into the brand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I guess we'll never know, but it sure would be interesting to see how many orders Jomashop took. I think it's pretty safe to say the price was a big factor in people's buying decision. Heck, I nearly ordered a 300. I have a USD dial which I could have transplanted but the janky orange Jenny fish put me off. Definitely was tempted though.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

It might be true that the Jomashop warranty service is better than the Doxa warranty service


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## Ketchup time (Apr 23, 2015)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I guess we'll never know, but it sure would be interesting to see how many orders Jomashop took. I think it's pretty safe to say the price was a big factor in people's buying decision. Heck, I nearly ordered a 300. I have a USD dial which I could have transplanted but the janky orange Jenny fish put me off. Definitely was tempted though.


Jenny needs to drop the Fish on the crown and case back. It’s a DOXA! Boat on the case back and DOXA on the crown.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Totally agree, but ain't happening until I'm CEO 



Ketchup time said:


> Jenny needs to drop the Fish on the crown and case back. It’s a DOXA! Boat on the case back and DOXA on the crown.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Well, just ordered a Sub 200 Searambler. My first DOXA. We'll know in about a month. I've bought several watches from Joma over the past few years with no problems.

DOXA may know exactly what's going on, and may think it will ultimately work to their benefit, their gripes here notwithstanding. 25% off on $1K and $2K watches puts those watches which may be at many folks' arbitrary price limits suddenly within their reach. Particularly first time DOXA buyers. (As me how I know...) If they like their watches, they may very well be inclined to purchase another DOXA in the future.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I agree with you. No matter what the real story is, and no matter what we think about the Doxa history and how the management should act etc, etc, Doxa is in the business to sell watches and I'll bet they sold a bunch more watches because of Joma.

I can just imagine Jan and the gang feigning indignation with a smile on their faces as they rubbed their hands in glee. Big bonus this month, boys 



BigBluefish said:


> Well, just ordered a Sub 200 Searambler. My first DOXA. We'll know in about a month. I've bought several watches from Joma over the past few years with no problems.
> 
> DOXA may know exactly what's going on, and may think it will ultimately work to their benefit, their gripes here notwithstanding. 25% off on $1K and $2K watches puts those watches which may be at many folks' arbitrary price limits suddenly within their reach. Particularly first time DOXA buyers. (As me how I know...) If they like their watches, they may very well be inclined to purchase another DOXA in the future.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

I would grab a 1500T at 26% off in a heartbeat.


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

TraserH3 said:


> Joma does charge you on the spot, so I guess you're loaning them a couple grand for 3 to 5 weeks!


that is incorrect. you are not charged when ordering if product isn't available. It is just a pending authorization, rather than a charge to your account, until they have the product and ship it.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Doxa it’s understood that you have no idea how Jomashop could of received the watches. Could you please also include the 1500T in your next shipment to Jomashop. Thank you.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

So if Doxa isn't selling to Joma, but Joma is selling at a discount, do you really think they are buying at retail from Doxa? Something doesn't pass the smell test here, in fact it smells a bit fishy.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Let's just hope that they weren't all on that container ship with the Bentleys & Lambos. Maybe that's why DOXA really doesn't know where they are.


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## W123 (Oct 15, 2007)

Crazy Cajun said:


> Don’t ever try to return something to Joma. I had to call them weekly and finally got action after involving Paypal. Took four months total. Warranty is through their in-house crew too.


Doxa's service isn't great either. Took me weeks to get a few measly bracelet links for my sub200 due to badly machined threads, and they wanted to charge me for them too.


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## FJR1971 (Nov 26, 2017)

Looking forward to seeing a bunch of wrist shots on this thread in a few weeks...


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## juskiewrx (Mar 23, 2019)

Unfortunately just seeing this---did they have all the models in stock or not? Specifically Sharkhunter 300T with bracelet...


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

juskiewrx said:


> Unfortunately just seeing this---did they have all the models in stock or not? Specifically Sharkhunter 300T with bracelet...


None in stock. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## juskiewrx (Mar 23, 2019)

heineken4u said:


> None in stock.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


Right. But asking if they had them and then sold out? Same with Professional?


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

8505davids said:


> So are Doxa saying that any watches bought from Jomas won't have a Doxa warranty? Surely the warranty is issued by Doxa not the retailer?


That is correct. No Authorized Dealer, no Doxa warranty. If it breaks, you send it back to Jomashop at your expense, and they find an available watchmaker to fix it. The watchmaker may or may not have experience on fixing your brand of watch. Trust me on this. It happened to me with a couple of watches purchased from Jomashop.


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## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

juskiewrx said:


> Right. But asking if they had them and then sold out? Same with Professional?


Going off of memory but I do believe most of the colors were available on bracelet for the 300 and 300T. I put in an order for an aqumarine 300T on bracelet and I don't see it available anymore.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

BobMartian said:


> It might be true that the Jomashop warranty service is better than the Doxa warranty service


This might be the case
When I had Jomashop perform a repair on a watch under warranty, they fixed it and shipped it back within 10 days.


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

While I do understand where you are coming from.. 

1. I am looking at it from the standpoint that it is an eta mechanism watch. Not exactly a unknown rare piece. As far as potential repair goes.p

2. saving @ 500. Not to go against the grain here.. but, while I really DO want a Doxa 300t. I just can not put a 1900 value on it. 1400 to me, is reasonable. if this does not work out. I should be able to flip it near what I paid for it.

3 at this price it is really close to the used prices. Would you rather buy a new watch with some degree of warranty? Or a used one?

there are people that will not buy used. And only new from an AD.. I get that.

4. it is a REALLY BAD policy for any maker to refuse service on one of their own items. As long as it’s legit. And in many cases mfrs will actually help customers that may have unknowingly bought counterfeit goods. Maybe not so much with watches, but a lot of other products. Because, ultimately, this is a non essential item. The last thing a company like this needs is a “they have lousy service” or “they don’t stand behind their own products”.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

seanc01 said:


> 4. it is a REALLY BAD policy for any maker to refuse service on one of their own items. As long as it’s legit. And in many cases mfrs will actually help customers that may have unknowingly bought counterfeit goods. Maybe not so much with watches, but a lot of other products. Because, ultimately, this is a non essential item. The last thing a company like this needs is a “they have lousy service” or “they don’t stand behind their own products”.


In regards to 4, to be fair, Doxa never said they wouldn’t service the watch. They said the warranty would be void. Very different, and not uncommon at all for watches from grey market vendors to not carry the manufacturers warranty. 

As others have said though, I don’t think the lack of warranty is a big deal for ETA watches, for now at least when parts are plentiful.


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> In regards to 4, to be fair, Doxa never said they wouldn’t service the watch. They said the warranty would be void. Very different, and not uncommon at all for watches from grey market vendors to not carry the manufacturers warranty.
> 
> As others have said though, I don’t think the lack of warranty is a big deal for ETA watches, for now at least when parts are plentiful.


that is a good and huge clarification.

and there are so many watches with this movement from so many years. I think it would cheap and easy, if needed to pick up a donor watch for very short money.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

juskiewrx said:


> Right. But asking if they had them and then sold out? Same with Professional?


They had the 300T professional with a bracelet and rubber strap. I was too late in purchasing the watch on a bracelet but bought two on the rubber strap.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

juskiewrx said:


> Right. But asking if they had them and then sold out? Same with Professional?


I never saw any of them in stock. Anyone, please correct me if you saw otherwise? 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## Seppia (Sep 1, 2013)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> As DOXA has a secret tracking path of every watch, where they are being sold to, any mishandling found in our network will have to deal with immediate consequences.


I am not even sure what you are writing doesn't expose you to legal risks. Once anybody buys something they have the right to sell it wherever and however they please. It's not your goods any more.

In any case, as much as I like some of your watches, this response makes 100% sure I will never buy one.

If Jomashop gets stock, it's getting it from some of your dealers.
Professional, healthy distributors who have a good relationship with the brand will not dump product. 
Sometimes a brand needs to change one of their distributors, but in that case it's the brand's job to find an arrangement to repurchase the stock or to arrange a handover of the stock to the new partner, in order to avoid these occurrences.

So in short, if product leaks out, you should be looking to better manage your distribution network, not threaten people openly and damage your end customers (not everyone reads WUS, some of your less WUSsy fans may buy on Joma not knowing this is "grey market").


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I called Joma yesterday.

What I was told is ALL watches will be in on March 28th and were bought as overstock from a retailer of Doxa. They are not B stock or refurbs. The count they were getting was accurate and as the watches presold, the color ways would be pulled down.

I bought a 300T for $500.00 off. I'm not at all worried about Doxa "Not" honoring the warranty here in the States. My one any only experience with them was a nightmare that turned me off the brand all together.. only this deal brought me back around.

I also have to call BS on Doxa knowing where a watch was purchased outside of them not having a dealer stamp. even if serial numbers were documented by which retailer got which allocation of serial numbers, I highly doubt that the retailer who sold the overstock to Joma told Doxa which units were sold through their store and which were shipped to Joma.

The last watch I bought from Joma came with dated and stamped papers from the authorized reseller. SO there's that..

I'm not worried.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## FJR1971 (Nov 26, 2017)

Seppia said:


> I am not even sure what you are writing doesn't expose you to legal risks. Once anybody buys something they have the right to sell it wherever and however they please. It's not your goods any more.
> 
> In any case, as much as I like some of your watches, this response makes 100% sure I will never buy one.
> 
> ...


Doxa's response was such a turn off from the brand. It seemed more like someone trying to answer to the president of the company about a mistake that was made versus a statement to the watch community and their customers.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> I called Joma yesterday.
> 
> What I was told is ALL watches will be in on March 28th and were bought as overstock from a retailer of Doxa. They are not B stock or refurbs. The count they were getting was accurate and as the watches pressed, the color ways would be pulled down.
> 
> ...


If I had purchased I wouldn't worry either about a Doxa warranty, any Watchmaker worth his weight can work on a ETA 2824.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> If I had purchased I wouldn't worry either about a Doxa warranty, any Watchmaker worth his weight can work on a ETA 2824.


I had quite the rant in November over the SH*Tshow of service I received from Doxa USA here. The agent I spoke with convinced me to send my watch back so they could just exchange it rather than following my gut instinct and just take it to my local watchmaker. Ultimately they screwed around for like 10 days with my watch, refunds, repurchases, cancellations and then I just called it quits and gave up on them. 

Threatening not to honor their own warranty is like telling me I can't eat dog SH*T if my watch breaks... 

GEEEEeeeeeez... I better pay $500.00 more to get that warranty......


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> I had quite the rant in November over the SH*Tshow of service I received from Doxa USA here. The agent I spoke with convinced me to send my watch back so they could just exchange it rather than following my gut instinct and just take it to my local watchmaker. Ultimately they screwed around for like 10 days with my watch, refunds, repurchases, cancellations and then I just called it quits and gave up on them.
> 
> Threatening not to honor their own warranty is like telling me I can't eat dog SH*T if my watch breaks...
> 
> GEEEEeeeeeez... I better pay $500.00 more to get that warranty......


I'm not sure if it's a translation issue, but yes the Doxa Rep's response seemed to hit a few chords with several individuals. I simply don't see the value in Doxa at their retail price points, but the Joma sales did look attractive and more realistic in pricing. I still withheld. Doxa has it's share of sorted history and when I was on this board back in '08 timeframe, the mudslinging was fast and furious. I'll refrain from purchasing and enjoy the "homages" for now. 
Sorry to hear about your experience with their service. Sending a watch out to the OEM is always a risky proposition. If it's not under warranty, I would also look to a local Watchmaker for service. 
Cheers


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

I'm no expert on DOXA (or any watch for that matter) but it seems to me from what I've read here & elsewhere over the past couple years that it may simply be the company has very nice and well-made watches, a fantastic history, and a legitimately devoted following but is, at least in its more recent corporate iterations, bordering on incompetence in its management, marketing and customer relations. Not at all uncommon in the business world. Problem for those who like their product, though, is that companies that can't actually do well at being, well... companies, often don't last long and their product, as good as it may be, disappears.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> I'm not sure if it's a translation issue, but yes the Doxa Rep's response seemed to hit a few chords with several individuals. I simply don't see the value in Doxa at their retail price points, but the Joma sales did look attractive and more realistic in pricing. I still withheld. Doxa has it's share of sorted history and when I was on this board back in '08 timeframe, the mudslinging was fast and furious. I'll refrain from purchasing and enjoy the "homages" for now.
> Sorry to hear about your experience with their service. Sending a watch out to the OEM is always a risky proposition. If it's not under warranty, I would also look to a local Watchmaker for service.
> Cheers


I too struggled to see the value at the price point, but at $500.00 off the price of a 300T, its almost inline with many others offering 2824 retro styled divers. Still slightly over priced but knowing Joma's business model, they won't be there forever and its a smart buy one will never lose money on if they resell next year.

As a reminder of what you get in a Doxa USA warranty:









Doxa USA awful!! (Sorry RANT!!!!)


1st time here. A few members on the Doxa FB group suggested I share my experience with you guys. Let me start by saying I've been a dive watch collector for the better part of 25 years. I can say that I've owned just about everything under $10K worth owning EXCEPT a Doxa. The planets never...




www.watchuseek.com


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Jeep99dad said:


> that is incorrect. you are not charged when ordering if product isn't available. It is just a pending authorization, rather than a charge to your account, until they have the product and ship it.


did others not get charged? I ordered a 300 carbon and was charged.


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

Mine weren’t charged and even have an email from them staring they wouldn’t charge until shipping. It’s consistent with what someone else said earlier in this thread. It also was my experience with another Joma order I had in the past. Interesting to see your account was actually charged for your doxa order. I’d reach out to them.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Jeep99dad said:


> Mine weren’t charged and even have an email from them staring they wouldn’t charge until shipping. It’s consistent with what someone else said earlier in this thread. It also was my experience with another Joma order I had in the past. Interesting to see your account was actually charged for your doxa order. I’d reach out to them.


MIne was charged at the time of purchase for my 300T. Maybe its dependent on the card too? Mine was on AMX.


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## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

Mine shows as a pending charge so it's similar to a previous post where the actual charge won't go through until it's shipped.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> I called Joma yesterday.
> 
> What I was told is ALL watches will be in on March 28th and were bought as overstock from a retailer of Doxa. They are not B stock or refurbs. The count they were getting was accurate and as the watches presold, the color ways would be pulled down.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to make the call.
So this tells me that Joma is purchasing from a distributor of Doxa who decided to deplete some stock.
Joma must have bought at a discounted price from the Distributor who bought at a discounted price from Doxa.
2 levels of discounts and also making margin on sale to end buyer 
So please enlighten me on the virtues of Doxa pricing......


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> MIne was charged at the time of purchase for my 300T. Maybe its dependent on the card too? Mine was on AMX.


That’s very interesting. Their statement as general and not specific to my case. 
“Please be advised that we DO NOT charge your credit card until the order ships. When an order is placed the amount is held as a pending authorization on your account”


I’m curious now 
Do you see a full completed charge or temporary pending authorization which doesn’t increase your balance.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

I know I'm probably the only one on this tread that thinks this way but this whole Doxa sale thread is kind of funny. So many complaints about Doxa management and customer service and how their post doesn't make sense and "how dare they!......", yet so many are scrambling for the "incredible deal" for a watch, from a company that they can't stop complaining about. How about grabbing an Invicta while your there? 😆
I almost got caught up in the "Doxa love no matter what" craze and went for a Sub 300 but when all is said and done, for me, it's still too much money for a Doxa and there are so many other watches out there for the same sale price, that offer so much more.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Watchout63 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to make the call.
> So this tells me that Joma is purchasing from a distributor of Doxa who decided to deplete some stock.
> Joma must have bought at a discounted price from the Distributor who bought at a discounted price from Doxa.
> 2 levels of discounts and also making margin on sale to end buyer
> So please enlighten me on the virtues of Doxa pricing......


In summary; if the customer is willing to pay it they are most likely happy to charge it - just like most businesses will do.
Having owned a couple of SUB300 models do I think their quality is in line with the retail price asked…?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Jeep99dad said:


> That’s very interesting. Their statement as general and not specific to my case.
> “Please be advised that we DO NOT charge your credit card until the order ships. When an order is placed the amount is held as a pending authorization on your account”
> 
> 
> ...


My balance is reflective of the transaction... or it was. I've sold a few little pieces (considering selling some plasma.. maybe donate sperm  ) and partially paid it off. I had zero intensions of buying anything significant until summer having just added a handful of pieces in January...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ticktocker said:


> I know I'm probably the only one on this tread that thinks this way but this whole Doxa sale thread is kind of funny. So many complaints about Doxa management and customer service and how their post doesn't make sense and "how dare they!......", yet so many are scrambling for the "incredible deal" for a watch, from a company that they can't stop complaining about. How about grabbing an Invicta while your there? 😆
> I almost got caught up in the "Doxa love no matter what" craze and went for a Sub 300 but when all is said and done, for me, it's still too much money for a Doxa and there are so many other watches out there for the same sale price, that offer so much more.



To me, my expectations on an $1900.00, ETA 2824 powered, small brand watch justifiably are high. Thats a big ticket for how this watch specs out. Nobody can argue that. I was frustrated that my first one was DOA, but I was crazy pissed at how their management addressed the situation. My problem is not with the watch but the STAFF. Now... knock $500.00 off the price...tell me I don't have to deal with that same management again for anything and if puts a pretty nice bow on the 2nd coming of my 300T. 

I don't say "how dare they"... I say... Thank you for the clarifications and I'll accept that discount with the risk of having to take my Doxa to the 3rd generation watchmaker whose family has likely serviced more Swiss movements in their 70 years than those current employed at Doxa in the rare event that this workhorse of a movement were to defy all odds and fail twice for me in the same brand watch......


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> To me, my expectations on an $1900.00, ETA 2824 powered, small brand watch justifiably are high. Thats a big ticket for how this watch specs out. Nobody can argue that. I was frustrated that my first one was DOA, but I was crazy pissed at how their management addressed the situation. My problem is not with the watch but the STAFF. Now... knock $500.00 off the price...tell me I don't have to deal with that same management again for anything and if puts a pretty nice bow on the 2nd coming of my 300T.
> 
> I don't say "how dare they"... I say... Thank you for the clarifications and I'll accept that discount with the risk of having to take my Doxa to the 3rd generation watchmaker whose family has likely serviced more Swiss movements in their 70 years than those current employed at Doxa in the rare event that this workhorse of a movement were to defy all odds and fail twice for me in the same brand watch......


I'd gamble on that bet for sure.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Maybe these JS Doxa are being shipped out of Russia


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BobMartian said:


> Maybe these JS Doxa are being shipped out of Russia


Coming from a guy with a couple Vostoks in his box, that 3-5 weeks estimate isn't nearly long enough even in the best of times! 😃


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Coming from a guy with a couple Vostoks in his box, that 3-5 weeks estimate isn't nearly long enough even in the best of times! 😃


Heck, I just got my Amfibia a few days before things went pear-shaped in Ukraine and I had it from Christopol in about a week.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

But complaining is part of life and it's just not about watches. Favourite musician, man his last album sucked. Favourite football team, jeez under the new manager the tossers haven't won a game. McDonalds stopped making Angus burgers, WTF.... and so it goes on.

Doxa used to be "managed", I use that term loosely, by someone who was passionate about the brand and the history. The new guys couldn't give a sheet from what I can see. They are box shifters, that's it. It saddens a lot of us, but I think by now people realize that and just accept it. The Doxa SUB will always be a niche watch. As much as I love the brand, I know that the SUB is an acquired taste and always will be. But so what? Panerai are an acquired taste too as far as I'm concerned. I'd never own one and I couldn't care if the management was a group of monkeys designing stuff by throwing darts at a wall. However, if Jomashop started to sell them at 1300 bucks, I'd consider one, maybe.

Us old timers will always winge about the new guys and harken back to the good old days...... 

FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
I was happier then and I had nothin'. We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t' corridor!
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
We were evicted from our 'ole in the ground; we 'ad to go and live in a lake
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road 
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Cardboard box?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky! 




Ticktocker said:


> I know I'm probably the only one on this tread that thinks this way but this whole Doxa sale thread is kind of funny. So many complaints about Doxa management and customer service and how their post doesn't make sense and "how dare they!......", yet so many are scrambling for the "incredible deal" for a watch, from a company that they can't stop complaining about. How about grabbing an Invicta while your there? 😆
> I almost got caught up in the "Doxa love no matter what" craze and went for a Sub 300 but when all is said and done, for me, it's still too much money for a Doxa and there are so many other watches out there for the same sale price, that offer so much more.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

$1300 and you'd consider a Panerai huh? I truly hope you're exaggerating. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Well, OK, $750 and maybe I'd give it a shot  



heineken4u said:


> $1300 and you'd consider a Panerai huh? I truly hope you're exaggerating.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## funkeruski (Jan 14, 2011)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Dear DOXA Fans,
> 
> DOXA considers its bond of trust with official retailers worldwide and through its exclusive distribution network for providing the best service and advice to customers and aficionados of DOXA watches.
> 
> ...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Just for the hell of it, I ordered a Searambler 300T in addition to the Aquamarine I ordered last week. The conversation I had Thursday with the rep at Joma said they will all be in house on the 28th. The ETA on their webpage now says 2-3 weeks and not 3-5 like last week. Could be a well programmed inventory feed or it could be that they do have the confirmation of delivery.


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## ohhenry1 (Jan 7, 2018)

STARSTELLA said:


> Just for the hell of it, I ordered a Searambler 300T in addition to the Aquamarine I ordered last week. The conversation I had Thursday with the rep at Joma said they will all be in house on the 28th. The ETA on their webpage now says 2-3 weeks and not 3-5 like last week. Could be a well programmed inventory feed or it could be that they do have the confirmation of delivery.


Thank you for the update (and for having called them). I'm now allowing myself to feel optimistic that these orders actually will go through.


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## Sohl (Feb 21, 2015)

Serial number tracking isn’t that secret, Doxa.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Sohl said:


> Serial number tracking isn’t that secret, Doxa.


True but it makes it sound more sinister like something out of a Clive Cussler novel ‘In the cold darkness Pitt looked down at his trusty Joma Shop sourced orange dial Doxa dive watch and realised in horror that his merciless adversary had a secret tracking path of every watch, where they are being sold to and that any mishandling found in their network will have to deal with immediate consequences!
In this case Pitt suddenly understood with a chilling clarity that if his faithful timepiece required service he was all alone; where was his trusty friend Al when he needed him in a scrape like this?
As the dark hours ticked quietly away, Pitt’s only remaining hope was that, as a self taught engineer, Giordino could get the case back off without scratching the metal and service that ETA 2824-2 calibre.
Suddenly through the intense darkness Pitt heard a faint scraping noise; as he strained to hear he realised that it was getting steadily louder - and it was heading his way.
Crouching low and keeping silent Pitt held his breath until his lungs ached; on the edge of passing out due to the lack of precious oxygen he finally saw a familiar figure coming towards him.
Pitt instantly recognised the solidly built Giordino and gracefully leapt through the air with the agility of a cat; his heart pounding in his chest, he suddenly realised that his friend had indeed brought his loupe and set of Bergeon tools.
Al was startled and saw the fire burning in his friends intense green eyes. They both realised that this was the only way to beat his dastardly opponent and keep his trusty Joma Shop Doxa running and watertight for another five years.’
Now that’s far more exciting


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sohl (Feb 21, 2015)

adg31 said:


> True but it makes it sound more sinister like something out of a Clive Cussler novel ‘In the cold darkness Pitt looked down at his trusty Joma Shop sourced orange dial Doxa dive watch and realised in horror that his merciless adversary had a secret tracking path of every watch, where they are being sold to and that any mishandling found in their network will have to deal with immediate consequences!
> In this case Pitt suddenly understood with a chilling clarity that if his faithful timepiece required service he was all alone; where was his trusty friend Al when he needed him in a scrape like this?
> As the dark hours ticked quietly away, Pitt’s only remaining hope was that, as a self taught engineer, Giordino could get the case back off without scratching the metal and service that ETA 2824-2 calibre.
> Suddenly through the intense darkness Pitt heard a faint scraping noise; as he strained to hear he realised that it was getting steadily louder - and it was heading his way.
> ...


 THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE!!


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Excellent. Well done that man.

Maybe we could make the merciless adversary.... Ernst Stavro Edocsfeld 




adg31 said:


> True but it makes it sound more sinister like something out of a Clive Cussler novel ‘In the cold darkness Pitt looked down at his trusty Joma Shop sourced orange dial Doxa dive watch and realised in horror that his merciless adversary had a secret tracking path of every watch, where they are being sold to and that any mishandling found in their network will have to deal with immediate consequences!
> In this case Pitt suddenly understood with a chilling clarity that if his faithful timepiece required service he was all alone; where was his trusty friend Al when he needed him in a scrape like this?
> As the dark hours ticked quietly away, Pitt’s only remaining hope was that, as a self taught engineer, Giordino could get the case back off without scratching the metal and service that ETA 2824-2 calibre.
> Suddenly through the intense darkness Pitt heard a faint scraping noise; as he strained to hear he realised that it was getting steadily louder - and it was heading his way.
> ...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Sohl said:


> Serial number tracking isn’t that secret, Doxa.


But do you think the retailer who sold those overstock watches to Joma told them which serial numbers were sold to their customers and which serial numbers were send to Joma? Outside of asking the customer where it was purchased and hoping for a straight and honest answer, how could Doxa ever know? I've bought many watches whose papers were never stamped or dated from authorized resellers and also bought watches from JOMA whose papers were stamped and dated from the authorized reseller.... that was not JOMA


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

I wonder why this retailer decided to sell on their Doxa stock? Not the sales they hoped for or change of plan? Would be interesting to see some Doxa sales figures - especially for the 600 (which should/could have been a big hit), the CGraph (did they sell any??) and the Carbons, not forgetting that the LE TGraph is still in stock (2 years later)....Mind you this sale includes the 200/300/300Ts which I'd have thought were fairly steady sellers. Whatever .... looks like the watches will appear so a good deal for you US buyers!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

8505davids said:


> I wonder why this retailer decided to sell on their Doxa stock? Not the sales they hoped for or change of plan? Would be interesting to see some Doxa sales figures - especially for the 600 (which should/could have been a big hit), the CGraph (did they sell any??) and the Carbons, not forgetting that the LE TGraph is still in stock (2 years later)....Mind you this sale includes the 200/300/300Ts which I'd have thought were fairly steady sellers. Whatever .... looks like the watches will appear so a good deal for you US buyers!


To me, the 300T should be a good seller... its an entry priced way to get the classic Doxa look without the commitment and with great resale if you don't love it. Yet, at the beginning of Joma's sale, all colors and options were there. Its hard to say...


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I have to say I don't know how this selling through ADs stuff works. I thought that the AD didn't actually buy the watches but paid Doxa for them when they are sold and if not then they went back to Doxa if the AD decided to stop selling them.

Let's say for that Jomashop had 3 of each watch. I think they had listed 57 when they first went on sale. Thats 170 watches for round figures and let's say the AD actually bought them for $1,000 a pop. That's $170,000 they shelled out. They then sell them to Jomashop for, say, $1100 a pop. Jomashop sells them for $1300. Everyone makes money and the Doxa buyers get "cheap" SUBS.

Obviously, some watches like the T-Graph are a bunch more than $1000 each but I'm just using simple numbers here. 

Man, I can't see that happening. It just doesn't make sense to me for an AD to buy a bunch of watches, especially turkeys like the Crap-Graph, sorry C-Graph and then dump the whole lot.

Man, that Edocsfeld, he is dastardly cunning. Global domination next....hmmmmm  



8505davids said:


> I wonder why this retailer decided to sell on their Doxa stock? Not the sales they hoped for or change of plan? Would be interesting to see some Doxa sales figures - especially for the 600 (which should/could have been a big hit), the CGraph (did they sell any??) and the Carbons, not forgetting that the LE TGraph is still in stock (2 years later)....Mind you this sale includes the 200/300/300Ts which I'd have thought were fairly steady sellers. Whatever .... looks like the watches will appear so a good deal for you US buyers!


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## Sohl (Feb 21, 2015)

STARSTELLA said:


> But do you think the retailer who sold those overstock watches to Joma told them which serial numbers were sold to their customers and which serial numbers were send to Joma? Outside of asking the customer where it was purchased and hoping for a straight and honest answer, how could Doxa ever know? I've bought many watches whose papers were never stamped or dated from authorized resellers and also bought watches from JOMA whose papers were stamped and dated from the authorized reseller.... that was not JOMA


The only piece of info needed by anyone is that Doxa needs to know the SN of a watch purchased via Joma. Then they’ll know how Joma came by it.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Probably worth it if your currency is at a record low


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Sohl said:


> The only piece of info needed by anyone is that Doxa needs to know the SN of a watch purchased via Joma. Then they’ll know how Joma came by it.


but the watches are coming to Joma from an authorized reseller. The serial numbers were associated with that reseller but if that reseller in turn sold them to Joma (which is what happened) there is no way Doxa would know if the watch was sold from Joma or the reseller who sold Joma their overstock.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

STARSTELLA said:


> but the watches are coming to Joma from an authorized reseller. The serial numbers were associated with that reseller but if that reseller in turn sold them to Joma (which is what happened) there is no way Doxa would know if the watch was sold from Joma or the reseller who sold Joma their overstock.


The other poster is talking about the watches Doxa will buy directly from Joma in order to identify the AD who is selling them to Joma.

At that moment, Doxa won’t know which serial numbers were sold to Joma. But I’m guessing they’ll then ask the AD to provide them a list of the serial numbers of the watches they sold to Joma. And hence those serial numbers will be removed from Doxa’s warranty listings.


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## riff raff (Dec 28, 2015)

As an Al, I approve this post. FWIW, I TOLD Pitt to buy in the Marei era....



adg31 said:


> True but it makes it sound more sinister like something out of a Clive Cussler novel ‘In the cold darkness Pitt looked down at his trusty Joma Shop sourced orange dial Doxa dive watch and realised in horror that his merciless adversary had a secret tracking path of every watch, where they are being sold to and that any mishandling found in their network will have to deal with immediate consequences!
> In this case Pitt suddenly understood with a chilling clarity that if his faithful timepiece required service he was all alone; where was his trusty friend Al when he needed him in a scrape like this?
> As the dark hours ticked quietly away, Pitt’s only remaining hope was that, as a self taught engineer, Giordino could get the case back off without scratching the metal and service that ETA 2824-2 calibre.
> Suddenly through the intense darkness Pitt heard a faint scraping noise; as he strained to hear he realised that it was getting steadily louder - and it was heading his way.
> ...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> The other poster is talking about the watches Doxa will buy directly from Joma in order to identify the AD who is selling them to Joma.
> 
> At that moment, Doxa won’t know which serial numbers were sold to Joma. But I’m guessing they’ll then ask the AD to provide them a list of the serial numbers of the watches they sold to Joma. And hence those serial numbers will be removed from Doxa’s warranty listings.


But at the same time, I would bet this sale of inventory is the result of a broken relationship. If the reseller felt these units were overstock, Doxa should have taken them back. Presumably they said NO... and they sold them at a loss to Joma (based on how cheap Joma is selling) assuming they took the whole lot as an FU to DOXA... IF that's what happened, I doubt the reseller is still selling the brand.. NOR would cooperate with DOXA. ( I just saw EXACTLY this type of situation two weeks ago in my industry.. its pretty common)

None the less... having experienced DOXA's service on a warranty the whole discussion is irrelevant! If I ever have an issue with either of the DOXA's I bought from JOMA, you can be sure, no matter how the trail was covered, I'll not send my watch in to them.


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

Is the "new" Doxa 300T case identical with the the case used for the 300T Poseidon Divingstar?

Reason for asking is that I own the Poseidon and am thinking of buying a 300T Searambler on rubber strap from Jomashop....


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

STARSTELLA said:


> But at the same time, I would bet this sale of inventory is the result of a broken relationship. If the reseller felt these units were overstock, Doxa should have taken them back. Presumably they said NO... and they sold them at a loss to Joma (based on how cheap Joma is selling) assuming they took the whole lot as an FU to DOXA... IF that's what happened, I doubt the reseller is still selling the brand.. NOR would cooperate with DOXA. ( I just saw EXACTLY this type of situation two weeks ago in my industry.. its pretty common)
> 
> None the less... having experienced DOXA's service on a warranty the whole discussion is irrelevant! If I ever have an issue with either of the DOXA's I bought from JOMA, you can be sure, no matter how the trail was covered, I'll not send my watch in to them.


Yours is not the first post in this thread sh***ing on Doxa's warranty and customer service. Whats the deal with them?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Yours is not the first post in this thread sh***ing on Doxa's warranty and customer service. Whats the deal with them?


I can't speak to the root of what's going on but there's a large number of people who have had really poor service from DOXA USA (not to be confused with WoS in any way). There's a lot of theories from undertrained staff, not enough staff, not really into the products, not even watch enthusiasts... or just plain old poor management from the top down enforcing bad protocol. The poor experiences vary in degrees and issues. 

Hence why I have zero concern buying from Joma. If given the opportunity to buy from Joma at full price rather than direct from Doxa USA in the future, I'd still choose Joma if that puts my experience with Doxa USA in perspective.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

jorgenl said:


> Is the "new" Doxa 300T case identical with the the case used for the 300T Poseidon Divingstar?
> 
> Reason for asking is that I own the Poseidon and am thinking of buying a 300T Searambler on rubber strap from Jomashop....


My Poseidon has a different case from my 2020 (non HEV) 300T - the Poseidon has the 1200 case and domed crystal has it not? Having said that its pretty similar all round, bar the flat crystal. Check the Flying D's website - there will likely be a comparison on that.


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## BSwed (Jul 14, 2021)

> Is the "new" Doxa 300T case identical with the the case used for the 300T Poseidon Divingstar?
> 
> Reason for asking is that I own the Poseidon and am thinking of buying a 300T Searambler on rubber strap from Jomashop....


This ebay-item seems to indicate that a bracelet swap is indeed possible.


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

BSwed said:


> This ebay-item seems to indicate that a bracelet swap is indeed possible.


The 300t bracelet fits straight onto the poseidon. As does the 1200t if you swap the endlinks


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

Seikonut1967 said:


> The 300t bracelet fits straight onto the poseidon. As does the 1200t if you swap the endlinks


Since my Poseidon is on a bracelet, I was wondering if this bracelet would fit on the 300T (comes with rubber strap) and if the strap will fit on the Poseidon?

Judging from the answers above, I guess that is the case.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

My Poseidon bracelet is on my 300T, with the 300T endlinks


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

Seikonut1967 said:


> In all fairness, customers have been complaining about QC issues, poor service, poor after sales, obvious flaws, and various other issues. (…)


As of late, I’ve repeatedly seen/had feedback to the contrary, both on forums and F2F; across different geographies…

How up to date is your statement?


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

FJR1971 said:


> Looking forward to seeing a bunch of wrist shots on this thread in a few weeks...


I wouldn’t hold my breath for this to materialize…

BTW: What a boatload of conjecture in this thread…  How about waiting if any watches will ever be shipped and only start to speculate where they come from once this has happened?


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

paysdoufs said:


> As of late, I’ve repeatedly seen/had feedback to the contrary, both on forums and F2F; across different geographies…
> 
> How up to date is your statement?


I'd say for the past 18 months to 2 years. I'm willing to bet that the bad outweighs the good two fold. Possibly more.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

Watchout63 said:


> So please enlighten me on the virtues of Doxa pricing......


I’m quite amazed to see that there are still people out there who believe that prices of luxury goods (like branded mechanical watches) are closely related to the cost of producing these goods 

The prices of these goods are _placed_ as a function of what the marketplace will bear.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

Seikonut1967 said:


> I'd say for the past 18 months to 2 years. I'm willing to bet that the bad outweighs the good two fold. Possibly more.


Yeah - but did that pertain to DOXA after-sales service in Switzerland or DOXA USA? My hunch is that the negative experiences have mainly been with the latter…


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

paysdoufs said:


> I’m quite amazed to see that there are still people out there who believe that prices of luxury goods (like branded mechanical watches) are closely related to the cost of producing these goods
> 
> The prices of these goods are _placed_ as a function of what the marketplace will bear.


I'm amazed there are still people out there coming into this thread already on page 10 for the first time, with the sole purpose to white knight for Doxa. 
Maybe they'll give you a 5% discount for your efforts


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

paysdoufs said:


> Yeah - but did that pertain to DOXA after-sales service in Switzerland or DOXA USA? My hunch is that the negative experiences have mainly been with the latter…


Doxa is Doxa wherever it's situated. Either way they represent the brand 👍


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

paysdoufs said:


> As of late, I’ve repeatedly seen/had feedback to the contrary, both on forums and F2F; across different geographies…
> 
> How up to date is your statement?


My experience with Doxa was like the proverbial parsons egg - good in parts.
For me the combination of such variable product quality, customer service and the highly flexible definition of ‘Limited Edition’ led to finally flipping both of mine last year.
I’ve some nagging regrets as it is a unique look for a watch - but I can happily view the Joma Sale pages without reaching for my wallet so I think I’m over it now!
Sadly at the current retail price I’d say there are far better options out there for the money once you start looking over £2,000.
What is your experience with Doxa?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

I'm pretty happy with my ones - did get myself a bit excited about my 300T's 'wobbly' bezel when it first arrived but I got over that pretty quickly. I'd prefer them cheaper of course, but when I'm looking around that price point I can't say there is much else I'd prefer than another Doxa (but then I'm a confirmed cushion case fan) and ok it doesn't have an in-house movement but that comes with pretty steep ongoing servicing costs ... what are the far better options in your view?


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Formex Reef is a alternative to Doxa


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Watchout63 said:


> it smells a bit fishy.


I see what you did there.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

I bought a Sub 200 using PayPal. PP sent me a message saying that the charge won't go through until Joma "processes your order."


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

Watchout63 said:


> (…)
> Maybe they'll give you a 5% discount for your efforts


If only they did... But I guess they’re doing just fine without my help anyway 

I will admit, however, that the “special treatment” DOXA is subjected to on WUS in terms of “BMW-ing” (compared with basically all other brands) still kind of rubs me the wrong way. Especially since I feel that they’re far from being the worst offenders, among the Swiss, when it comes to questionable value propositions (IMHO).

But I’ll leave you US-ies to it… For us OUS-ies the Jomashop sale is pretty much a non-event anyway once you factor in shipping, import duties, VAT and carrier fees.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

Seikonut1967 said:


> Doxa is Doxa wherever it's situated. Either way they represent the brand 👍


Agreed. But they’re far from being the only brand where the after-sales service varies widely in quality from one country to another. So the broad statements about “DOXA's after-sales service being utter sh..“ isn’t really helpful.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

adg31 said:


> (…) What is your experience with Doxa?


Thanks for asking. I’m still pretty delighted with my SUB 300T Pro every time I pass it on my wrist. I think considering the combination of design, heritage, solid tech and value-for-money, there simply aren’t many other divers out there (let alone Swiss Made ones) that can compete. Maybe ZRC (less well known) and Aquastar (depending on how they’ll round out the collection). The sapphire/6R35 Seiko Prospex divers certainly offer more bang for the buck, but with the well-documented QC lottery.

Hence, seriously still considering a (new) SUB 600T Divingstar.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

BobMartian said:


> Formex Reef is a alternative to Doxa


It’s certainly an alternative - but is it also (all thing considered…) the “far better option” that @8505davids has asked for?

My new Edox Hydro-Sub, for example, is a bit better specced (on paper) than the SUB 300T (COSC-certified movement, ceramic bezel insert). But all things considered, I doubt that this alone makes it a better overall purchase than a DOXA SUB, especially given Edox' weak performance in case of resale (which is why I intend to keep it long-term).


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

8505davids said:


> I'm pretty happy with my ones - did get myself a bit excited about my 300T's 'wobbly' bezel when it first arrived but I got over that pretty quickly. I'd prefer them cheaper of course, but when I'm looking around that price point I can't say there is much else I'd prefer than another Doxa (but then I'm a confirmed cushion case fan) and ok it doesn't have an in-house movement but that comes with pretty steep ongoing servicing costs ... what are the far better options in your view?


I’d say it depends on which model you are comparing; once you get to the SUB300 COSC at £2.390 (or £3,750 for the carbon cased versions) you could go for the Tudor Pelagos, Black Bay or BB58, Breitling SuperOcean, Bremont Supermarine, Sinn U1 or the TAG Heuer Aquaracer. If buying on rubber the Omega Seamaster 300 is only just up the road if you save an extra month or so / haggle a discount / wait for the sales.
In the £1,000 to £2,000 range of the SUB300T you have the Longines Heritage Diver, Rado Captain Cook, Eterna Kon-Tiki Diver, Sinn 104, Damasko DSUB50, Oris Aquis or Diver 65 - to mention just a few as it is quite a long list.
If looking around the £1,000 mark and the SUB200 you have the Aquastar, Seiko SPB143 or SPB237 Willard if you like vintage style cushion cases. Just below this you have the Christopher Ward Trident range and can continue down with many of the fantastic micro brands out there like Smiths or the Dreadnaught until you get to the Bulova Devil Diver or the ever popular Seiko Turtle.
The point is that the choice of dive watches is very wide and everyone will be different as to their experiences with a brand so it’s each to their own.
My experiences with Christopher Ward have been universally positive in terms of both product quality and exemplary customer service so great customer service is not confined to the big brands like Omega who I see as the benchmark to beat.
So, for me, many of these brands will meet the criteria of ‘better’ than what I experienced with Doxa (one is on a par!) but you may well disagree based on your own experience which is why we don’t all wear the same watch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

adg31 said:


> I’d say it depends on which model you are comparing; once you get to the SUB300 COSC at £2.390 (or £3,750 for the carbon cased versions) you could go for the Tudor Pelagos, Black Bay or BB58, Breitling SuperOcean, Bremont Supermarine, Sinn U1 or the TAG Heuer Aquaracer. If buying on rubber the Omega Seamaster 300 is only just up the road if you save an extra month or so / haggle a discount / wait for the sales.
> In the £1,000 to £2,000 range of the SUB300T you have the Longines Heritage Diver, Rado Captain Cook, Eterna Kon-Tiki Diver, Sinn 104, Damasko DSUB50, Oris Aquis or Diver 65 - to mention just a few as it is quite a long list.
> If looking around the £1,000 mark and the SUB200 you have the Aquastar, Seiko SPB143 or SPB237 Willard if you like vintage style cushion cases. Just below this you have the Christopher Ward Trident range and can continue down with many of the fantastic micro brands out there like Smiths or the Dreadnaught until you get to the Bulova Devil Diver or the ever popular Seiko Turtle.
> The point is that the choice of dive watches is very wide and everyone will be different as to their experiences with a brand so it’s each to their own. My experiences with Christopher Ward have been universally positive in terms of both product quality and exemplary customer service.
> ...


I'd say that briefly touches on an option or two one might consider rather than a Doxa.. 

Well stated and clarifies the struggle I've had for the last 25 years of collecting and never bought a Doxa before they were more appropriately priced on Joma... (excluding my epic failure last fall where I got a DOA)...


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Should add Certina if looking outside micro brands


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

adg31 said:


> I’d say it depends on which model you are comparing; once you get to the SUB300 COSC at £2.390 (or £3,750 for the carbon cased versions) you could go for the Tudor Pelagos, Black Bay or BB58, Breitling SuperOcean, Bremont Supermarine, Sinn U1 or the TAG Heuer Aquaracer. If buying on rubber the Omega Seamaster 300 is only just up the road if you save an extra month or so / haggle a discount / wait for the sales.
> In the £1,000 to £2,000 range of the SUB300T you have the Longines Heritage Diver, Rado Captain Cook, Eterna Kon-Tiki Diver, Sinn 104, Damasko DSUB50, Oris Aquis or Diver 65 - to mention just a few as it is quite a long list.
> If looking around the £1,000 mark and the SUB200 you have the Aquastar, Seiko SPB143 or SPB237 Willard if you like vintage style cushion cases. Just below this you have the Christopher Ward Trident range and can continue down with many of the fantastic micro brands out there like Smiths or the Dreadnaught until you get to the Bulova Devil Diver or the ever popular Seiko Turtle.
> The point is that the choice of dive watches is very wide and everyone will be different as to their experiences with a brand so it’s each to their own. My experiences with Christopher Ward have been universally positive in terms of both product quality and exemplary customer service.
> ...


Most of those you mention are significantly more expensive than the 300 (in the UK at least) and of the others, whilst they are certainly good options, I don't really see how they are a far better option, just different - the U1 is the obvious competitor at that price while the pricier BB58 has the added expense of servicing an in house movement.... and none of them have the iconic cushion case which is probably the Doxa's main selling point. A quick check through their forums shows all of them have their issues from time to time both with watches and service - just look at the grumblings about the BB58 925, its not just a Doxa issue. I'm ignoring the carbons as they are a silly price!

Its true that we all have different tastes and ideas of value - I was just curious to see your thoughts. In the 300T and 200 - yes some nice watches, mostly all with similar standard style cases and I have one or two of them myself - again while I like them I would say they are good but not far better options. Are the Doxas a bit overpriced - damn right but what iconic good isn't? I've been able to get up to 15% off the new price which brought it more in line with what I'd like to pay, bringing it quite a bit cheaper than the Tudors.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

8505davids said:


> Most of those you mention are significantly more expensive than the 300 (in the UK at least) and of the others, whilst they are certainly good options, I don't really see how they are a far better option, just different - the U1 is the obvious competitor at that price while the pricier BB58 has the added expense of servicing an in house movement.... and none of them have the iconic cushion case which is probably the Doxa's main selling point. A quick check through their forums shows all of them have their issues from time to time both with watches and service - just look at the grumblings about the BB58 925, its not just a Doxa issue. I'm ignoring the carbons as they are a silly price!
> 
> Its true that we all have different tastes and ideas of value - I was just curious to see your thoughts. In the 300T and 200 - yes some nice watches, mostly all with similar standard style cases and I have one or two of them myself - again while I like them I would say they are good but not far better options. Are the Doxas a bit overpriced - damn right but what iconic good isn't? I've been able to get up to 15% off the new price which brought it more in line with what I'd like to pay, bringing it quite a bit cheaper than the Tudors.


I agree with you; if you want the classic Doxa look there isn’t anything else that is going to scratch that itch irrespective of price.
However if they are going to go mainstream they really need to up their game in terms of product quality - dates should sit centrally in the date window - and if they do they should take responsibility to fix it and not lamely blame ETA as they did for me with my SUB300 Searambler explaining why it wasn’t their fault and why they wouldn’t put it right.
Under the previous regime of trading direct I was explicitly told by Doxa that the European Distance Selling Regulations didn’t apply to them even though the watch was being dispatched from Wien which, the last time I checked, is in Europe as was the UK.
If you promote an item as a once in a lifetime limited edition, when it’s gone it’s gone, you don’t reissue pretty much the self same watch a few years later; in my view it’s again a basic rookie error.
These are kind of basic customer service experiences that I could allow for with a micro brand but not if they were aiming to go mainstream - unless the intention is to allow the dealers to take the flak on their behalf.
Specific to this thread, other manufacturers must see retailers selling their watches at a discount which they may or may not agree with; I’ve even seen Rolex as sale items! However you don’t see them petulantly taking to social media threatening that the watches in question won’t be supported by the manufacturer; again it’s something I might expect a micro brand to do but not a mainstream manufacturer.
All of the above is balanced by memories of a beautiful SUB300 LE that I bought and owned for a few years wearing every day from the original 300 limited edition series. 
It was so comfortable to wear, kept great time and the orange dial looked fantastic all of which made it (I thought) a unique watch which I really saw as a one-watch keeper.
As such, I suppose I’m annoyed at Doxa for killing it for me despite having so many opportunities to make me a brand loyalist; I suspect that my experience is not unique.
To put this into context the two watch brands I really rate for consistent customer service are Omega who are simply brilliant and Christopher Ward who have been merely great when it comes to supporting their products - an honourable mention should also go to Eddie over at Timefactors for saving me #31 out of the Everest Silver Jubilee limited edition!
As such, it is my experience that great customer service isn’t related directly to the retail pricing of the watch but in the attitude to the customer - and here consistency is key to success. Define your identity and embed it across your organisation so that your customers have a uniform experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

adg31 said:


> (…)
> If you promote an item as a once in a lifetime limited edition, when it’s gone it’s gone, you don’t reissue pretty much the self same watch a few years later; in my view it’s again a basic rookie error. (…)


That's exactly one of the points that I meant in a previous post when I referred to “incessant BMW-ing against DOXA in particular”…

Can you give me good reason why Jenny-DOXA should not - a couple years later - (re-)issue the 300 from the Marei-DOXA era? They’re in the business of selling watches after all; and the DOXA back-catalogue is not thaaat deep that you can easily afford to voluntarily declare certain models “off-limit”.

If you’re unhappy with DOXA in that respect (and I can honestly only see the investment angle leading to that stance - although the Marei 300s still continue to fetch better pre-owned prices…) what would you call Seiko? They issued the Prospex Willard less than a year after the first +3k SLA re-issue Willard. What about Omega just re-doing a bunch of Broad Arrow '57 Chronos (which was limited in 2017). What about Breitling turning a Wempe-limited Chronomat (IIRC) into a permanent model? Etc. pp.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

adg31 said:


> (…) an honourable mention should also go to Eddie over at Timefactors for saving me #31 out of the Everest Silver Jubilee limited edition!


You must be based in the UK. Timefactors has had nothing but bad press re. their awful customer service in the continental watch platforms I routinely visit. And that already starts with the ordering process and the fact that they’re not deducing the UK VAT for non-UK customers (who thus effectively pay VAT twice)…

See how it makes no sense to extrapolate and bash a brand based on a geographically limited experience?


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

paysdoufs said:


> That's exactly one of the points that I meant in a previous post when I referred to “incessant BMW-ing against DOXA in particular”…
> 
> Can you give me good reason why Jenny-DOXA should not - a couple years later - (re-)issue the 300 from the Marei-DOXA era? They’re in the business of selling watches after all; and the DOXA back-catalogue is not thaaat deep that you can easily afford to voluntarily declare certain models “off-limit”.
> 
> If you’re unhappy with DOXA in that respect (and I can honestly only see the investment angle leading to that stance - although the Marei 300s still continue to fetch better pre-owned prices…) what would you call Seiko? They issued the Prospex Willard less than a year after the first +3k SLA re-issue Willard. What about Omega just re-doing a bunch of Broad Arrow '57 Chronos (which was limited in 2017). What about Breitling turning a Wempe-limited Chronomat (IIRC) into a permanent model? Etc. pp.


Seems they are all at it - highlights the problem with LEs if they prove good sellers and demand remains ... I suppose Doxa at least had the excuse of change of 'management' but I can very much see why someone would be annoyed about the 300 50th being followed by the 300 - I well remember the threads when it happened. Mind you, I'd still sooner have a 300 50th (and I do) than a standard 300. The Seiko would have annoyed me even more!

I'm not sure Timefactors is a good example of customer service lol - not that I've had any problems but it does seem to be down to which day you catch him on....as I said before there seems to be disappointing and good stories about every brand, and I guess its normal to hear more from those who have had bad service. The posts about Yema on the forum make grim reading but I had a good experience with their customer service.


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

paysdoufs said:


> You must be based in the UK. Timefactors has had nothing but bad press re. their awful customer service in the continental watch platforms I routinely visit. And that already starts with the ordering process and the fact that they’re not deducing the UK VAT for non-UK customers (who thus effectively pay VAT twice)…
> 
> See how it makes no sense to extrapolate and bash a brand based on a geographically limited experience?


Hello,
C'est un plaisir de lire tes propos. Je me sens parfois un peu seul pour défendre en anglais une compagnie que je trouve tout à fait honorable en dépit des critiques qui ne cessent de pleuvoir à son propos sur le forum. Quiconque lit ce forum n'aura plus jamais le droit de dire que les français sont des râleurs. Il y a bien pire en fait  
Et personnellement, je n'ai qu'à me féliciter du SAV Européen. Dernièrement encore ils ont réussi à retrouver dans leur inventaire une lunette pour ma 750 qui a retrouvé, grâce à cela, toute sa beauté (pour un coût vraiment très fair-play).


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

Et pourtant - je suis certainement loin d’être ce qu’on appellerait un « fanboy » aveugle 

Ça reste effectivement une situation plutôt curieuse (d’autant plus dans un forum sponsorisé par Doxa…), qui a fait que je fréquente ces lieux de moins en moins malgré le savoir historique qui y est présent.

Aussi, je cherche toujours la marque (hors micros) qui offrirait mieux que DOXA sur le créneau des plongeuses historiques suisses 🤷‍♂️


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I have to say I don't know how this selling through ADs stuff works. I thought that the AD didn't actually buy the watches but paid Doxa for them when they are sold and if not then they went back to Doxa if the AD decided to stop selling them.
> 
> Let's say for that Jomashop had 3 of each watch. I think they had listed 57 when they first went on sale. Thats 170 watches for round figures and let's say the AD actually bought them for $1,000 a pop. That's $170,000 they shelled out. They then sell them to Jomashop for, say, $1100 a pop. Jomashop sells them for $1300. Everyone makes money and the Doxa buyers get "cheap" SUBS.
> 
> ...



Allow me to jump in and shed some "light":
Retail, in principle, works in the following ways:
A. 100% up front - typical for very small brands that cannot afford to support a sales force
B. 30/60/90 - i.e. the total purchase is paid over 90 days in increments of 30% (approx)
C. Memo - per your comment, watches are delivered, sales reps come and "count the safe", and provide an invoice. The invoice (hopefully) is paid within 90 days or so (if the brand isn't SWATCH, LVMH, Richemont, etc.).

I highly doubt that Watches of Switzerland is doing anything other than memo.

With all of that said, brands frequently sell directly to Joma, and other grey market outlets. You go to the watch fairs, and they are frequently sitting in the cubicle right next to the one that the Tourneau rep is sitting in. Whether or not a brand (in this case, DOXA) is selling directly to the grey market or not, when watches show up there, it is truly not a good indication in terms of brand management. If there is a retail partner that needs to offload what appears to be in this case a not insignificant amount of watches, it begs the questions why the DOXA person responsible for that account didn't manage the situation better. Typical solutions other brands use are stock buy back, stock swap, etc. 

Margins typically are:
Brand sells to distributor at 30 - 35%. 
Distributor (ideally) sells to retailer for 50% (sometimes 55%). 
Retailer then has 20% that they can lop off for quick sales.

As DOXA is presumably acting as their own distributor, they are selling to the retailers directly, meaning that (in principle), they have an additional 20% of swag they can use to pay someone in each country to keep an eye on things.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

paysdoufs said:


> Can you give me good reason why Jenny-DOXA should not - a couple years later - (re-)issue the 300 from the Marei-DOXA era? They’re in the business of selling watches after all; and the DOXA back-catalogue is not thaaat deep that you can easily afford to voluntarily declare certain models “off-limit”.


Let’s ignore the ‘Marei era’ argument; so far as I’m aware there has been no change of ultimate ownership from the Jenny family - is that not correct?
Similarly I’d be fairly sure that no-one forced Doxa to declare the 50th anniversary SUB300 a limited edition. That was most likely a management decision taken by the officers of the organisation to make the watch sell faster to their most loyal fans.
There would most likely have been ample opportunity for someone in the organisation to say ‘that is a really dumb idea as it will limit our future room to manoeuvre’ with a great looking, iconic watch.
Now, if an organisation voluntarily promotes an item as a final opportunity to own a legend as part of a limited edition of three hundred that will never be made again - and then follows it up shortly afterwards by introducing virtually the same item in regular production what would you call it?
I would say that it is a breach of trust.
So, my one reason why they shouldn’t have done it is trust - an incredibly fragile commodity which, unlike the SUB300, really is gone when it’s gone.
Just my £0.02.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

paysdoufs said:


> You must be based in the UK. Timefactors has had nothing but bad press re. their awful customer service in the continental watch platforms I routinely visit. And that already starts with the ordering process and the fact that they’re not deducing the UK VAT for non-UK customers (who thus effectively pay VAT twice)…
> 
> See how it makes no sense to extrapolate and bash a brand based on a geographically limited experience?


In all fairness Timefactors is a real micro brand; it doesn’t sell through a global distributor network so we’re not exactly comparing like for like brands here. 
However, if Timefactors made their beautiful Everest Jubilee model a standard production watch next week I’d most likely be similarly brassed off🙂


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

adg31 said:


> Let’s ignore the ‘Marei era’ argument; so far as I’m aware there has been no change of ultimate ownership from the Jenny family - is that not correct?
> Similarly I’d be fairly sure that no-one forced Doxa to declare the 50th anniversary SUB300 a limited edition. That was most likely a management decision taken by the officers of the organisation to make the watch sell faster to their most loyal fans.
> There would most likely have been ample opportunity for someone in the organisation to say ‘that is a really dumb idea as it will limit our future room to manoeuvre’ with a great looking, iconic watch.
> Now, if an organisation voluntarily promotes an item as a final opportunity to own a legend as part of a limited edition of three hundred that will never be made again - and then follows it up shortly afterwards by introducing virtually the same item in regular production what would you call it?
> ...


Theres no doubt it was a bit of a low blow at the time - Timefactors got around the successful Dreadnought and PRS68 being limited editions by making new 'Baby' versions of them ....I've said it before on here - manufacturers should be very careful with LEs...


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Deleted.


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

So, I ordered a 300T Searambler on strap.

It will be interesting to try the strap on (TWSS)


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## castle27 (Jan 12, 2009)

paysdoufs said:


> Thanks for asking. I’m still pretty delighted with my SUB 300T Pro every time I pass it on my wrist. I think considering the combination of design, heritage, solid tech and value-for-money, there simply aren’t many other divers out there (let alone Swiss Made ones) that can compete. Maybe ZRC (less well known) and Aquastar (depending on how they’ll round out the collection). The sapphire/6R35 Seiko Prospex divers certainly offer more bang for the buck, but with the well-documented QC lottery.
> 
> Hence, seriously still considering a (new) SUB 600T Divingstar.


I finally picked up a Sub 300T Searambler two years ago after wanting to scratch the DOXA itch for awhile. It's been easily the most-worn watch in my small collection since then, although it's had to share a lot of wrist time with my Aquastar Deepstar Greenwich for the past year. I really think the Sub 300T is one of the best values out there right now. It's an extremely well-spec'd tool watch; easily serviced; fits just about any size wrist with ease; comes from a brand with great history; looks equally great on any number of straps; has a distinctive, non-derivative design; and can be had for under $2k USD new (or $1,500 USD used). I really don't know what else out there can check all of those boxes, aside from maybe the Seiko SPB line.

That's all to say that I've been extremely happy with my DOXA experience, and I don't understand why the 300T seems to be a bit overlooked. I'm so happy with mine that I recently treated myself to another 300T Professional as a memento for getting my Open Water Diver certification. I can't believe how great this Professional orange dial looks in person.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

See post #203


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

At this point, I've got a buy order at $1100 on a 300T . Seems to me the history of Doxa is janky at best. It's unfortunate because I, like many, first read about Doxa in Clive Cussler novels and always wanted one. But the direction/focus of Doxa seems to be in shambles based upon many WIS here. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

heineken4u said:


> But the direction/focus of Doxa seems to be in shambles based upon many WIS here.


I actually disagree with that. Negativity is often the loudest; that’s true really with any forum. I wouldn’t call Doxa extremely well run, but I do think they’re in solid shape. Certainly better than shambles. Over the last few years they’ve solidified a non-limited product range, expanded their lineup, and moved in a physical presence. Think whatever of their customer service and CEO, but they’re definitely growing and are in it for the long haul.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

A brand has graduated from micro when JS sells their product


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## castle27 (Jan 12, 2009)

BobMartian said:


> See post #203


If that's in reference to my post, okay...

That previous post had a list of a lot of watches that are in the same price range as the 300T. That's fine, and a lot of them are nice watches (a couple of which I own), but that's about where the comparisons end. If I'm a fan of the DOXA aesthetic (and I am), an Eterna, Logines, Sinn, Damasko, Rado, etc. are not going to satisfy that desire. It seems silly to me to represent these as such interchangeable items just based on a similar retail price and general purpose.

Like adg31 said in that post, everyone has their own experiences and own opinion. Based on what I value and my experience, the 300T is the best watch for the money that I've found.

It's so odd to me that this brand's forum seems to draw so many people with a grudge -- a lot of whom have never actually handled one of these watches. I do sympathize with those who have had a bad experience with DOXA's customer service. For my part, I've purchased two watches from them and had great experiences both times. That's not to say that I can vouch for them being great every time, but it sure seems like the negative voices get amplified here.


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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

paysdoufs said:


> It’s certainly an alternative - but is it also (all thing considered…) the “far better option” that @8505davids has asked for?


I can't speak for anyone else but the Reef I handled blew away any Doxa I've ever held in terms of build quality, finishing, materials and overall presentation. Now aesthetics and "X" factor are completely subjective and powerful motivators that drive our choices. Many will prefer the aesthetics of the Doxa to the Reef. For others it will be the other way around. Many will appreciate Doxa's rich history making these sorts of watches and point out that Formex has no such track record. I get it and have made similar choices - meaning I've opted for "X" factor over the objective "better" choice. However, I think you'd be hard pressed to argue the Doxa is a "better" watch based on objective criteria.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

@LosAngelesTimer : I get what you mean. But then again, the „X-factors“ are probably what drives the buying decision for unnecessary items such as mechanical watches most of the time 

I’ll have to admit that it took me some time to come to terms with that realization re. my own buying behavior


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

There is actually some very good discussion in this thread and it raises a couple of interesting points. Here's my take on a few of them.

Through both the Marei era and ICE era the one constant has been the Jenny family. They own the brand and initially were happy to just let Rick Marei get on with it. As Doxa came back to life, Romeo Jenny started to get more involved. You can find pictures of him at Doxa events and "soundbites" of how wonderful things are etc etc. That's why his name is against the Foreword in the 40th book. In fact, I wrote that foreword and he just put his name at the bottom of it. The involvement got bigger over time to the extent that the 4000T was a Jenny designed watch rather than a Marei one. The writing was on the wall by this stage and Rick was on his way out. The Marei era ended and the ICE era began with Jan Edocs as the new man in charge. There is a story behind his "appointment" and takeover but that's his business, not mine or anyone elses. Was the Marei era end inevitable? I have to say yes. It just could have been handled so much better and instead of being the [email protected] it was, could have been a smoother transition and really a passing of the torch.

The ICE era has definitely seen the push for bigger brand awareness and availability, hence the Authorised Distributers like WOS and Time and Tide etc. Are they in "good shape". Without seeing sales figures and Return on Investment numbers I'd be wary of making that claim. The Jomashop situation would suggest there is definitely a ripple in the force. How big and whether isolated or the beginning of a tear, who knows. Time will tell.

Is the ICE Era management any good? Again hard to tell and depends on your criteria. A CEO who takes credit for other people work and doesn't recognise past achievements or people is not a particularly honourable character in my opinion. But that's just me. Maybe it's the way things are done. My mother would have kicked my arse for that kind of malarky, maybe other people's mothers wouldn't. However, Doxa SUBs are definitely more accessable to people who want to try one before buying it.

There have been new watches. Everyone has an opinion on them. My opinions don't mean squat to anyone but me. But here they are.
Pricing. Carbon price.... insane. T-Graph price..... insane. Carbon design, very nice. Straps...pricing... insane. Having to cut the strap to fit..... not good. 600T pacific..... beautiful, strap...disaster. Titanium bracelet would have been a winner but can understand why it didn't happen. 600T Steel.... beautiful. Caseback / bottom of watch design...fail in my opinion. Price.... realistic. C-graph and 200... nice enough watches but in no way deserve the name SUB attached to them. Massive fail.

Report card..C+ could do better.

Where I do think they fall down is availability of spares to watchmakers. But how big a deal is it. Lets look at that. Doxa SUBs use standard movements which can be serviced and replaced with relative ease. I'm the village idiot and I have only ever had one SUB serviced by a watchmaker. Every other SUB I've owned which had need to be serviced, I just bought a good working movement, both vintage and modern ETAs, timed them and installed them myself. If I can do that any watchmaker can do a far better job than me. So for movement purposes you don't need to send the watch back to Doxa unless under warranty.

What about other bits. Crystal? You can have a copy made, Bezel click spring. You can buy something similar and use it. Bezel, Only Doxa has them, Crown, only Doxa has them. They are very cheap parts, so my opinion is Doxa should sell then to watchmakers. Win the hearts and minds of their fans and buyers. I can't see servicing SUBs being a massive money spinner for Doxa so why not be seen to be good guys and supply bits. At the end of the day, do you really need to ever send your watch back to Doxa? For most people, no.

Then we have the communication aspect of it. Well, I think the response to the Synchron Military basically says it all. Advice...shut up and engage your brain before any knee jerk reaction and if you do make a promise, follow through with it in a reasonable time or at least give updates if you can't. Are Doxa any different to most other companies in that respect? Actually no, but the Doxa from the last 20 years was built on customer engagement. There is still some expectation, maybe unrealistic, that there will continue to be. And that's where I believe the real difference is. The Edocs crowd are not enthusiasts. They are more businessmen / box shifters. Sadly they seem to have had some kind of charisma bypass along the line and have either lost or never had the "lust' for Doxa and its history outside of selling watches.

Is it easier to criticize than praise? I don't think so. It depends on what you are seeing from the company. Were there failures in the Marei era? Absolutely. My biggest criticisms are the GMT inner bezel and the HEV on the 1200T. Obviously designed and inspected at the 'let's do things by feel in a dark room' design school. Did people go mental at times? For sure, and I would say that during the Marei era there was the biggest [email protected] I've seen with any watchmaker, happen and it happened with Doxa. But a new watch comes out, people like it and move on and go back to seeing the positive.

I'm excited to see what comes next....it better be a bloody nice Cussler edition 300T or I'm sending the boys round  Seriously though, its early in the game, we have a long way to go and today I receive a Marei era 600t Dirk Pitt dial. So much for never buying another Doxa


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> There is actually some very good discussion in this thread and it raises a couple of interesting points. Here's my take on a few of them.
> 
> Through both the Marei era and ICE era the one constant has been the Jenny family. They own the brand and initially were happy to just let Rick Marei get on with it. As Doxa came back to life, Romeo Jenny started to get more involved. You can find pictures of him at Doxa events and "soundbites" of how wonderful things are etc etc. That's why his name is against the Foreword in the 40th book. In fact, I wrote that foreword and he just put his name at the bottom of it. The involvement got bigger over time to the extent that the 4000T was a Jenny designed watch rather than a Marei one. The writing was on the wall by this stage and Rick was on his way out. The Marei era ended and the ICE era began with Jan Edocs as the new man in charge. There is a story behind his "appointment" and takeover but that's his business, not mine or anyone elses. Was the Marei era end inevitable? I have to say yes. It just could have been handled so much better and instead of being the [email protected] it was, could have been a smoother transition and really a passing of the torch.
> 
> ...


So, I can really only speak to what I know, and am fairly confident of -
Yes, the rise of the current CEO is a topic of some chatter, and truth be told I can't be asked. The Jenny family do own the brand, but if we are all being honest about things, their true focus was on Walca and their white label business. They had a whole other slew of products that were sold in other regions. Whether or not they are any more (or less) engaged with DOXA at this point remains to be seen.

I worked for Synchron, not for DOXA, although I know the Jennys and am still friendly with former loyalists. 
The move from watch or even group of watches to becoming a true brand requires more than just a famous spokesman (Clive Cussler / Dirk Pitt / Pick a Cousteau), and an iconic (to some) watch. 

I currently write, and work as a consultant for a few brands - all based in Switzerland. This is not to say that I know everything, but is by way of saying that I have seen (for the most part) how the sausage is actually made. Are the Jenny's insightful owners? Maybe not. Is the current CEO of DOXA solely responsible for bringing DOXA back to life after SO MANY YEARS? Of course not. Was Mr. Marei a great manager of teams? Probably not.

For a brief time, when it was at a size he could manage, Rick did quite well bringing the DOXA SUB back to life as a new (then), current product. He did some great work partnering with some of the former moderators here on WUS to create a true (albeit occasionally dysfunctional) community. For it to go beyond what it was at the time of the separation, it required more. Whether or not it will get where it could go remains to be seen. But having distributors offloading a not-insignificant amount of stock is probably not a good forecast for the coming months.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

James, don't sell yourself short in this. You were a big part in getting Doxa to where it is too. Heck, you were the man who put the Diving With Legends gig together. Last minute scrambles to get presentation material and the actual watches in the hands of the legends. Take a bow, fella. Rick, me nor no-one else could have done it.

Ping me your address and I'll fire over an Aquastar book. Now, there is a history worth reading  


QUOTE="Henki, post: 54796831, member: 85224"]
So, I can really only speak to what I know, and am fairly confident of -
Yes, the rise of the current CEO is a topic of some chatter, and truth be told I can't be asked. The Jenny family do own the brand, but if we are all being honest about things, their true focus was on Walca and their white label business. They had a whole other slew of products that were sold in other regions. Whether or not they are any more (or less) engaged with DOXA at this point remains to be seen.

I worked for Synchron, not for DOXA, although I know the Jennys and am still friendly with former loyalists.
The move from watch or even group of watches to becoming a true brand requires more than just a famous spokesman (Clive Cussler / Dirk Pitt / Pick a Cousteau), and an iconic (to some) watch.

I currently write, and work as a consultant for a few brands - all based in Switzerland. This is not to say that I know everything, but is by way of saying that I have seen (for the most part) how the sausage is actually made. Are the Jenny's insightful owners? Maybe not. Is the current CEO of DOXA solely responsible for bringing DOXA back to life after SO MANY YEARS? Of course not. Was Mr. Marei a great manager of teams? Probably not.

For a brief time, when it was at a size he could manage, Rick did quite well bringing the DOXA SUB back to life as a new (then), current product. He did some great work partnering with some of the former moderators here on WUS to create a true (albeit occasionally dysfunctional) community. For it to go beyond what it was at the time of the separation, it required more. Whether or not it will get where it could go remains to be seen. But having distributors offloading a not-insignificant amount of stock is probably not a good forecast for the coming months.
[/QUOTE]


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

As mentioned above, as we wait for Doxa to do the decent thing and release a Clive Cussler edition Doxa SUB 300T in his honour. Here, for me, is the closest we have come. I know there have been several NUMA editions but there was only ever one Dirk Pitt watch. Not sure how many were made. Supposed to be 50 but I believe it was much less. It just arrived so I need to give it the Flying Doctor spa treatment to bring her back to former glory. It's pictured beside the 'standard' SUB 600T professional. With the passage of time, I've come to appreciate what a great watch the Marei era 600T is. 60 click bezel, wears like a dream and even the slightly domed crystal that I was never keen on has grown on me considerably. Been waiting on the Dirk Pitt version for a while. Happy to have her in the stable


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Interesting points Doc - I obviously don't know any of the folks involved or much of the history and I don't have any real issue with them being 'boxshifters' rather than enthusiasts if they do the business, but some common sense should prevail with pricing and design. If your main focus is shifting numbers then be good at it! I can't believe that at some point someone at Doxa didn't look at a prototype 600 on their wrist and say "hmmmm will how this sits off the wrist really be widely popular or will it not cost us sales?? Surely we can do something to bring the lugs to the wrist??" My point being if you just care about sales (and there are few more important things in a business) then make sure your products are as widely saleable as possible! Everything else about the 600 makes it a winner.

The Military/Army was just plain embarrassing - its the classic politician's mistake of the stupid lies/excuses being worse than the initial failing - just hold your hands up and say "got caught out there guys - but we'll sort it" ...well human nature I guess but doesn't inspire confidence. If said watch appeared relatively quickly thereafter all would have been forgotten but when it doesn't, in spite of their claims at the time, that just makes them look amateurish at best. Come on Doxa - make the product right, at the right price and shift those boxes. The 300s are great, the 200 a good option and the 600 just needs a bit of case tweeking (that'll come at a cost for Doxa but future sales should surely outweigh that). You'd think any competent sales/management team would see that.

If you take the 300s and the 200s (and I actually think the 200 was a good move for Doxa as an alternative cheaper standard case shape option to broaden appeal and maybe eventually bring those buyers to the cushion case later on) out of the equation I wonder how successful the other models (Carbon/CGraph/600/TGraph LE) have actually been - I mean ... has anyone got a CGraph? Its not unattractive but size and price may rule it out for many - Bit smaller, bit cheaper and I'd probably just have launched it in black or perhaps one other colour initially to see how demand was.

Mind you, as none of us know sales figures, we are really just guessing and musing .... though thats fun too..


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Henki said:


> So, I can really only speak to what I know, and am fairly confident of -
> Yes, the rise of the current CEO is a topic of some chatter, and truth be told I can't be asked. The Jenny family do own the brand, but if we are all being honest about things, their true focus was on Walca and their white label business. They had a whole other slew of products that were sold in other regions. Whether or not they are any more (or less) engaged with DOXA at this point remains to be seen.
> 
> I worked for Synchron, not for DOXA, although I know the Jennys and am still friendly with former loyalists.
> ...


Thank you for a very insightful post which makes some excellent points.
The core issue for me is that the Doxa SUB was essentially a micro brand in the Marei era. It was produced in relatively small numbers, they were brand enthusiasts and traded direct with their customers - all of which built them a very loyal brand following by Doxa SUB enthusiasts. 
A large part of this love related to the very specific look and feel of the Doxa Sub with its unique case design and dial colours underpinned by the endorsement of high profile dive enthusiasts and the ever popular adventures of Dirk Pitt and NUMA.
However, translating this niche brand proposition through into becoming a mass market brand sold globally through traditional AD networks is a HUGE leap forwards. 
As a micro brand loyalists would accept variable customer service as part of the deal because it felt like it was run by enthusiasts for enthusiasts.
Replacing that enthusiast run micro brand feeling by definition requires a move to a more corporate feeling - but this punishes customer service fails far more harshly as you are dealing with a faceless organisation whose feelings can’t be hurt.
Ideally you would want to make the transition supported by existing loyalists that would act as brand ambassadors who magnify your brand marketing activities to help pull a new audience into the brand.
Unfortunately much of what has happened thus far has created significant negative content on social media - as others have noted in this thread - as some of their traditional audience have felt alienated.
At the same time I wonder if the iconoclastic look and feel of the Doxa SUB will appeal to a sufficiently wide audience?
Yes, it taps into the current love of heritage exploited by brands large and small - but is that enough for it to transition into a sustainable mass market global brand - or will this be the first of a number of sales that risks devaluing the brand?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Yeah - I'd say the cushion case 300s will likely stay a relatively niche appeal - but then they have the 200 option (perhaps using the 600 style bezels on it would harmonise it within the range and add something to it) and the different again 600. In fact I'd say every watch is a niche of some sort - very few styles/brands etc have widespread appeal - perhaps even more so nowadays with the rise of the smart watch.

I'm not sure a move to a corporate feel/approach should alienate customer service but there will be instances where the brand is not at fault and are correct not accepting liability or customers are expecting miracles, though of course goodwill gestures are sometimes worthwhile - I'm self employed and there are lots of small things I do FOC just because.

I'm not even sure Doxa are any better or worse in that regard than any other brand. Clever communication is however absolutely paramount nowadays.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

8505davids said:


> Yeah - I'd say the cushion case 300s will likely stay a relatively niche appeal - but then they have the 200 option (perhaps using the 600 style bezels on it would harmonise it within the range and add something to it) and the different again 600. In fact I'd say every watch is a niche of some sort - very few styles/brands etc have widespread appeal - perhaps even more so nowadays with the rise of the smart watch.
> 
> I'm not sure a move to a corporate feel/approach should alienate customer service but there will be instances where the brand is not at fault and are correct not accepting liability or customers are expecting miracles, though of course goodwill gestures are sometimes worthwhile - I'm self employed and there are lots of small things I do FOC just because. I'm not even sure Doxa are any better or worse in that regard than any other brand. Clever communication is however absolutely paramount nowadays.


100% Agreed; my point about moving to a more corporate feel is that you inevitably lose the enthusiasts who were there from the beginning and often end up with people who couldn’t care if it’s watches, widgets or gizmos in the box - the passion can wane to become ‘who cares; it’s a salary?’
At the moment they seem to me stuck between two worlds. I might expect a smaller brand to jump in to a discussion like this if they see their products being discounted - but larger brands really should rise above it.
If they have appointed an AD who has paid for the stock surely it’s up to them how and to who they dispose of it and if they are in violation of a contractual obligation deal with it at a corporate level not on forums.
Could you see for example Raynald Aeschlimann commenting on a forum like this to inform customers that Omega wouldn’t guarantee their watches if bought through a specific retailer at discount?
Effective corporate communications depend on having a clear brand identity and consistent tone of voice to be effective across all media channels - to be honest I simply can’t see it here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

I like the 200 as well (erm—well I like the idea— the watch isn’t really for me). I think it was important to Doxa that they offer a lower priced option to reach into the $1000 USD window. The “SUB” designation doesn’t really bother me either. I do get why it would irk some people, but maintaining a certain homology across the lineup is attractive. Now with the 200, 600, and 300 I think they’ve got themselves a pretty solid lineup that spans the ever-important and super-competitive $1000-$2500 window. Although that’s just me looking at it from far away, maybe their sales numbers suggest otherwise.

I’ll be interested to see what they present at their pseudo-Watch Week event. The Grey NATO guys suggested they re-release the GMT. Would be cool.


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## Ketchup time (Apr 23, 2015)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Was the Marei era end inevitable? I have to say yes. It just could have been handled so much better and instead of being the [email protected] it was, could have been a smoother transition and really a passing of the torch.


Couldn’t agree more. It is really disgusting how the ICE era never gave credit to where credit was due. Would there be a DOXA Sub now if it wasn’t for Ricks vision and his teams hard work. In listening to the propaganda from the current CEO, it’s as if he’s responsible for the rebirth of the brand.
Imagine had the passing of the torch been done right. Imagine a LE DOXA/Synchron dialled Sub as a thank you to Rick Marei/team!



Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm excited to see what comes next....it better be a bloody nice Cussler edition 300T


This is a no brainer and better be in the works.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Ketchup time said:


> Imagine a LE DOXA/Synchron dialled Sub as a thank you to Rick Marei/team!


I imagine the whole Military thing ended any chance for that lol.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Yea, but it was never going to happen. As far as Edocs is concerned the Marei era didn't exist



NeurosciGuy15 said:


> I imagine the whole Military thing ended any chance for that lol.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

I like my 200. It is a great entry into Doxas without spending over $1k, it bridges the gap between pure tool watch and dress watch, and the fit and finish are great.


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## Ketchup time (Apr 23, 2015)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Yea, but it was never going to happen. As far as Edocs is concerned the Marei era didn't exist


And what a waste. The relaunch was because of Marei after falling dormant post Aubry era. All those unique models/dials and amazing collaborations including another 2 generations of Cousteau involvement! Why wouldn’t you want to capitalize on that.
Their history is any watch manufacturers wet dream and if it wasn’t for your books, nobody would know about it from visiting their website.
A LE Synchron/DOXA would have been the right thing to do and I think would of sold out instantly. Would have made all the enthusiasts happy and continue to be brand ambassadors while attracting new buyers by promoting a very cool heritage. Obviously this will never happen. 
It’s clear Edocs/Jenny want to ignore that part for some weird reason in favour of releasing questionable pieces. The c-graph? Really! Has anyone ever seen any real world pictures of this thing?


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Maybe synchron can do a colab with seestern


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

It's a shame that they don't have any more 300ts on bracelet. Perks of being late to the party


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> It's a shame that they don't have any more 300ts on bracelet. Perks of being late to the party


I hear ya. I was looking for a 300t aquamarine or a Sub 200 Silver each on bracelet. Got the 200. Not sure if they ever had that 300t on the metal. I did OK. But still pining for that 300t.


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

BigBluefish said:


> I hear ya. I was looking for a 300t aquamarine or a Sub 200 Silver each on bracelet. Got the 200. Not sure if they ever had that 300t on the metal. I did OK. But still pining for that 300t.


Not sure what to do here. I hate rubber straps that need to be cut, I have commitment issues haha. Even with the extra50 code, it's like $1400 with tax for the rubber. *Or* I wait for one on the sales forum. You see excellent condition 300Ts on bracelet in the ~$1500 range. Ones that are only a few months old and have an actual Doxa warranty


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

I’d have to get the 300t aquamarine on the bracelet. I’ve warmed to rubber straps recently, but that would be waaaaayyyy too much turquoise in such a small area. I’d be concerned about creating some actual instability of the visible electromagnetic spectrum and I don’t even want to complete the possible outcome of such an event.

At some point I guess I will just have to buy one at list or if the forum or get a 600t aquamarine, which I actually prefer - except for that caseback.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

The deployant clasp used for the 300T rubber is too bulky. I’m also not a fan of how the rubber fits the case. The whole package is too Yachtmaster.


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## castle27 (Jan 12, 2009)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Not sure what to do here. I hate rubber straps that need to be cut, I have commitment issues haha. Even with the extra50 code, it's like $1400 with tax for the rubber. *Or* I wait for one on the sales forum. You see excellent condition 300Ts on bracelet in the ~$1500 range. Ones that are only a few months old and have an actual Doxa warranty


You could always sell the rubber strap. I got ~$200USD for my unworn black rubber strap on eBay last year. That really helps bring your total price down.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I was lucky enough to get the 300T Aquamarine on the bracelet. I'm not a bracelet fan but versus too much aquamarine in that rubber, its the way to go for me. I'll likely wear it on an isofrane.

I might part with the bracelet.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

I think the BC 330 is a great match for a Sub 300. 









Bonetto Cinturini 330 Black Rubber Quick Release Watch Strap


Bonetto Cinturini's famous vulcanized rubber watch strap, now with handy quick-release spring bars! Made in Italy, the 20mm Model 330 has a textured pattern with a comfortably smooth underside, a slim profile at 2.5mm thick, and seventeen sizing holes for the perfect fit. Untapered. Shown here...




holbensfinewatchbands.com


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

STARSTELLA said:


> I was lucky enough to get the 300T Aquamarine on the bracelet. I'm not a bracelet fan but versus too much aquamarine in that rubber, its the way to go for me. I'll likely wear it on an isofrane.
> 
> I might part with the bracelet.


Well, if you decide to sell the whole thing


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## DriveByDawg (Feb 3, 2018)

Piggy-backing on this thread...does anyone know if Doxa will swap a rubber strap for you? Will they put a black strap on the Divingstar? I think the yellow strap is just too much.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

DriveByDawg said:


> Piggy-backing on this thread...does anyone know if Doxa will swap a rubber strap for you? Will they put a black strap on the Divingstar? I think the yellow strap is just too much.


Based solely on my one experience with Doxa USA, it seems they are office people and not watch people. I would not want them using a spring bar tool near my watch. When I went through a nightmare of a service issue I had to spend a significant part of the initial conversation explaining what the rotor was and why is should not be banging against the inside of the caseback to whomever was fielding customer service/warranty calls.

The side note of that, I doubt they would just because they would likely end up sitting a large number of yellow straps that would never be sold since they would look pretty bad on any other watch


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## DriveByDawg (Feb 3, 2018)

STARSTELLA said:


> Based solely on my one experience with Doxa USA, it seems they are office people and not watch people. I would not want them using a spring bar tool near my watch. When I went through a nightmare of a service issue I had to spend a significant part of the initial conversation explaining what the rotor was and why is should not be banging against the inside of the caseback to whomever was fielding customer service/warranty calls.
> 
> The side note of that, I doubt they would just because they would likely end up sitting a large number of yellow straps that would never be sold since they would look pretty bad on any other watch


What is the opinion of the board of the yellow strap? I’m conflicted.


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

DriveByDawg said:


> Piggy-backing on this thread...does anyone know if Doxa will swap a rubber strap for you? Will they put a black strap on the Divingstar? I think the yellow strap is just too much.


I don't think they will do that.

Awhile ago I asked Doxa if I could by a Searambler with an orange strap.

The answer was they would not do that


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## DriveByDawg (Feb 3, 2018)

jorgenl said:


> I don't think they will do that.
> 
> Awhile ago I asked Doxa if I could by a Searambler with an orange strap.
> 
> The answer was they would not do that


You are correct - they just responded that they won’t. They should, but they won’t. 

Of course they said I am welcome to buy the $250 black strap as an extra strap. You don’t say!?!?…lol.


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

jorgenl said:


> I don't think they will do that.
> 
> Awhile ago I asked Doxa if I could by a Searambler with an orange strap.
> 
> The answer was they would not do that


I opted for the Diving star on a bracelet.

That said. I do not see paying $200+ for ANY rubber strap. Regardless as to who put their name on it. I will end up buying a generic-ish yellow and black strap in the $15-50/ea range. I (personally) think that the Yellow/ Turquoise, and even orange on the matching strap is just way too much. 

To me, that combo for anything but at the beach is a no go.
YMMV


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

DriveByDawg said:


> You are correct - they just responded that they won’t. They should, but they won’t.
> 
> Of course they said I am welcome to buy the $250 black strap as an extra strap. You don’t say!?!?…lol.


And here endeth the lesson of how to alienate potential repeat customers. 
I mean, come on, surely it's not that big a deal to offer the strap of the customers choice. Instead it's a flat no, but we'll charge you extortionate amounts of $$$$ to sell you one. Then folks wonder why we sometimes have to bash the brand (or it's policies). 
As I've stated before, I do like the watches, just not the style of it's current management/owners way of treating potential customer base.


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

Seikonut1967 said:


> And here endeth the lesson of how to alienate potential repeat customers.
> I mean, come on, surely it's not that big a deal to offer the strap of the customers choice. Instead it's a flat no, but we'll charge you extortionate amounts of $$$$ to sell you one. Then folks wonder why we sometimes have to bash the brand (or it's policies).
> As I've stated before, I do like the watches, just not the style of it's current management/owners way of treating potential customer base.


I suspect they are in sealed boxes that they are not allowed to open at the local level. And HQ has a policy against opening any sealed boxes.

But, they really should give a 20-50% discount on a bracelet or a strap as an add on at time of sale purchase.

Or jack up the price of the thing by, $20-50 (whatever their cost is on the bracelet or band) and bundle it in standard.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Doxa rubber cost is insane when compared to the total cost of the watch


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## DriveByDawg (Feb 3, 2018)

Agree with all of your comments guys - there is something they could do, if they actually wanted to do it. 

Instead it was a flat “nope.”


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

DriveByDawg said:


> Agree with all of your comments guys - there is something they could do, if they actually wanted to do it.
> 
> Instead it was a flat “nope.”


It is also possible that these ship from the factory to contracted warehouse/ distribution facilities for order fulfillment and there are no DOXA badged people at that location. And the last thing they'd want (on both side Doxa and warehouse) is for them to go opening anything up. 

It could be as simple as that too..

But, they really should do better.


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

For a brief period yesterday a 300T Caribbean on bracelet popped up, so I snagged it. Maybe someone from earlier canceled their order and they put it back on the site. My first choice would probably have been aquamarine but I'm happy


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

They stated to me that "that's the way the watches come from Switzerland, cannot be changed"


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

When I asked for a different strap at Omega they included it at no additional cost


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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

jorgenl said:


> They stated to me that "that's the way the watches come from Switzerland, cannot be changed"


And a little more inside baseball - the answer that you got is:
A. Codswallup
B. Proof that they assume their customers aren't terribly bright.
C. They still haven't really mastered direct to the public customer service.

As a reminder, DOXA works with different assemblers, and the watches are shipped, intact (assembled and packaged), to whoever is handling their logistics. So if anyone is still laboring under any illusions that there are people wearing orange DOXA coveralls, assembling DOXA SUBs, that is simply not the case (unless I have misunderstood something). I would also assume that all of the straps are sitting in neat little packages in the same area that is holding all of the watches that were put together by the various assemblers, waiting to be shipped.

Could DOXA contact the logistics holder, pull one watch and one strap and do this for you? Of course the could.
Is that the way that all watches ship from Switzerland (i.e. not just DOXA), well I'm calling B___ S___ on that one. Would it represent an extra step? Yes. 

Now on the other hand, if we are going to view it from their perspective, picture that same set-up that I just described, and they decide that yes, they will accommodate your request. Well, then you go on this forum and post about it, and suddenly it is a precedent that they have set that if they don't continue to honor, it will cause even more potential problems.

How I would have handled it:
"I am very sorry, but the watches are already assembled and packaged and therefore we would have to take a strap out of our pre-packaged inventory, open the packaging of the watch you are ordering, remove one strap and replace the other. Owing to this we cannot offer you this solution. However, what we can do is to offer you the strap at a discount if you purchase it at the same time as the watch. You would need to change the strap yourself." 

I think where the reply they gave falls down is its brevity and I suspect the fact that they were writing in English, not their first language and maybe didn't realize that what they probably meant to say was:

DOXA is not able to offer this solution to you as the watches we ship are already assembled and packaged.

But then again, we may never know ; )


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Isn’t it strange how the Doxa ‘Team’ are happy to jump in and let everyone know that their new watch from Joma Shop may not have a full warranty - but become invisible when given the opportunity to answer genuine customer concerns about the brand in a positive way?
It looks to me like a great lesson in how not to use social media to build your brand reputation with a core loyalist audience.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

I'm officially not going to join the Doxa bandwagon at this time due to very questionable management. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

heineken4u said:


> I'm officially not going to join the Doxa bandwagon at this time due to very questionable management.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


Hence why I was more than happy to take a $500.00 discount from Joma with the reward of NOT dealing with said questionable management


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

heineken4u said:


> I'm officially not going to join the Doxa bandwagon at this time due to very questionable management.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


inept management. Or a lack of customer service does not make the end product bad. 
but, imo, it keeps them as a niche market microbrand. That largely only appeals to a very small base of customers.

and.., to an extent that is not all a bad thing. It kind of keeps them as an under the radar, in the know- cult following. Which tends to be much more brand loyal. And also willing to put up with a lot more silliness than most would tolerate from “big“ names.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

seanc01 said:


> inept management. Or a lack of customer service does not make the end product bad.
> but, imo, it keeps them as a niche market microbrand. That largely only appeals to a very small base of customers.
> 
> and.., to an extent that is not all a bad thing. It kind of keeps them as an under the radar, in the know- cult following. Which tends to be much more brand loyal. And also willing to put up with a lot more silliness than most would tolerate from “big“ names.


Inept management and lack of customer service is tough to support. I am curious to see what's coming out next though. If it's a grand slam (Cussler) with no painted fish, I'll think about. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

heineken4u said:


> Inept management and lack of customer service is tough to support. I am curious to see what's coming out next though. If it's a grand slam (Cussler) with no painted fish, I'll think about.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


it tends to keep companies small. unable to grow. target to be taken over. Hopefully for a big co. That will keep the core design. But likely to sell it for some time until it just does not do the volume and drop it. But still throw out an odd ball here and there with the name on it.

but, limited editions are largely (ime) trying to mine the current customer base. Get them to buy what they already own.

because.. when you think about it… everything is a “limited edition”. Even a “high volume” production model.. they are only going to ever make xx000 2022 300t orange models..


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Why are some folks down on the Jenny Fish? I love the fish. Looks good on the crown, color matched. It’s out of the way, unobtrusive, but still an iconic little logo. On the caseback is OK, too. Would not put it on the dial.

Is it something other than just personal preference? Like I think the 4:30 date window on any watch is the horological manifestation of The Sign of The Beast?


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

I agree the logo on the crown looks good. People prefer the previous version which was almost a replica of an original vintage Doxa but they had bracelet issues. I like they added their fish logo so it’s easy to differentiate between the two.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BigBluefish said:


> Is it something other than just personal preference? Like I think the 4:30 date window on any watch is the horological manifestation of The Sign of The Beast?


This might be the funniest thing I've read all day....


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

BigBluefish said:


> Why are some folks down on the Jenny Fish? I love the fish. Looks good on the crown, color matched. It’s out of the way, unobtrusive, but still an iconic little logo. On the caseback is OK, too. Would not put it on the dial.
> 
> Is it something other than just personal preference? Like I think the 4:30 date window on any watch is the horological manifestation of The Sign of The Beast?


It's not clean and it's just way over the top imo. I also don't like any of the matching rubber bracelet colors to the dials. Throw a black isofrane strap on any of the dial colors and you have a winner. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

BigBluefish said:


> Why are some folks down on the Jenny Fish? I love the fish. Looks good on the crown, color matched. It’s out of the way, unobtrusive, but still an iconic little logo. On the caseback is OK, too. Would not put it on the dial.


I don’t have anything against the fish - in fact I quite like it and it goes well with the marine heritage of the Doxa SUB - but if they are going to use it as a logo it should, in my view, be used consistently.
Having the logo on the clasp and crown works well - but why then put it in script only on the dial and an older sailboat logo on the caseback?
On the Marei era SUB300 it was even worse with a Jenny-fish logo on the clasp. DOXA on the dial and crown and a sailboat on the caseback which made it look a rather charming bitzer (bits of this and bits of that pulled out of a parts bin)!
The logo should be the unifying embodiment of the brand so consistency is key.
For me, they missed a golden opportunity when they relaunched the limited edition SUB300 to move everything, including the caseback, over to the Jenny-fish logo and mark a new era for the brand.
That would have gone some way to differentiating the new model from the old - thereby keeping brand loyalists on side - and presented a consistent new identity to the mass market audience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

seanc01 said:


> inept management. Or a lack of customer service does not make the end product bad.
> but, imo, it keeps them as a niche market microbrand. That largely only appeals to a very small base of customers.
> 
> and.., to an extent that is not all a bad thing. It kind of keeps them as an under the radar, in the know- cult following. Which tends to be much more brand loyal. And also willing to put up with a lot more silliness than most would tolerate from “big“ names.


It is a bad thing if you are trying to transition from being a micro brand with a loyal cult like following into a mainstream brand sold through a network of AD’s.
There is a huge risk of ending up as neither one thing nor the other as you lose your original audience and don’t replace it with a new one which leaves you very vulnerable.
The recent report on the Swiss watch industry seemed to suggest that smaller Swiss brands were losing share to competitors from the Far East which would be getting me concerned.
However, I’ve no idea what the numbers look like for Doxa so can only wish them well with their strategy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

adg31 said:


> It is a bad thing if you are trying to transition from being a micro brand with a loyal cult like following into a mainstream brand sold through a network of AD’s.
> There is a huge risk of ending up as neither one thing nor the other as you lose your original audience and don’t replace it with a new one which leaves you very vulnerable.
> The recent report on the Swiss watch industry seemed to suggest that smaller Swiss brands were losing share to competitors from the Far East which would be getting me concerned.
> However, I’ve no idea what the numbers look like for Doxa so can only wish them well with their strategy.
> ...


Agreed,
As the Chinese continue to up their game. It is going to be increasing difficult for the Swiss to remain competitive. Once "Swiss" becomes a prestige rather than a quality factor all bets are off. 

I could easily see a Maranez or Seestern contracting for Doxa. making an identical 300t (e,g,) 100% Doxa branded and licensed coming in at the $499 sell price. That could be a huge win for Doxa as far as units and sales, while they keep their "Swiss Made" counterparts at the current $ levels. Maybe put out LEs exclusively?

If either of these Mfrs had the IP, Branding, Logo at half or 1/3 the sell price?


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

BigBluefish said:


> Why are some folks down on the Jenny Fish? I love the fish. Looks good on the crown, color matched. It’s out of the way, unobtrusive, but still an iconic little logo. On the caseback is OK, too. Would not put it on the dial.
> 
> Is it something other than just personal preference? Like I think the 4:30 date window on any watch is the horological manifestation of The Sign of The Beast?


I think it’s just misanthropes zooming in on whatever detail they can in order to continue to diss the brand. I mean: look at the last couple of comments… Apparently it’s a badly run company with inept management making a subpar product.

But when there’s an opportunity to get 25% off, it’s somehow an attractive buy nonetheless


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

heineken4u said:


> It's not clean and it's just way over the top imo. I also don't like any of the matching rubber bracelet colors to the dials. Throw a black isofrane strap on any of the dial colors and you have a winner.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


Tons of people actually owning and wearing Doxa SUBs are doing just that: Buy on bracelet, wear on a third-party rubber. So where’s the problem? If you don’t like Doxa’s rubber straps, just don’t buy them (IMHO they’re severely overpriced anyway)


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

paysdoufs said:


> I think it’s just misanthropes zooming in on whatever detail they can in order to continue to diss the brand. I mean: look at the last couple of comments… Apparently it’s a badly run company with inept management making a subpar product.
> 
> But when there’s an opportunity to get 25% off, it’s somehow an attractive buy nonetheless


So anyone who doesn’t appreciate every aspect of the current Doxa brand is now a person who by definition hates or distrusts the whole of humanity?
That seems rather a broad brush statement to make wouldn’t you say - or is the Doxa brand and all it’s works so perfect in your overarching view that this is the sole point that divides the whole of humanity?
In regards to your second point, even at 25% off - 26% if you’re looking at the SUB300 - I’m still not buying so it’s not that attractive to overcome my previous experience with the brand.
However, if others see it as a $1825 watch but not a $2450 watch is that not really simply them saying that they see the watch as being 26% overpriced at retail?
In which case, what point are you making?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

paysdoufs said:


> I think it’s just misanthropes zooming in on whatever detail they can in order to continue to diss the brand. I mean: look at the last couple of comments… Apparently it’s a badly run company with inept management making a subpar product.
> 
> But when there’s an opportunity to get 25% off, it’s somehow an attractive buy nonetheless


Ridiculous assessment.



paysdoufs said:


> Tons of people actually owning and wearing Doxa SUBs are doing just that: Buy on bracelet, wear on a third-party rubber. So where’s the problem? If you don’t like Doxa’s rubber straps, just don’t buy them (IMHO they’re severely overpriced anyway)


"(IMHO they’re severely overpriced anyway):"

I assume this is the way I (and probably others) feel about Doxa's watches. At least buying at Retail.
25% off it makes is more in line with where I would value it at.

Not as if they have an extensive AD network that one is able to go, look at assess and possibly haggle, now is there?


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

I would absolutely love to have a Sub 1500T. But not at $2390.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

adg31 said:


> So anyone who doesn’t appreciate every aspect of the current Doxa brand is now a person who by definition hates or distrusts the whole of humanity?





seanc01 said:


> Ridiculous assessment.


Please - be objective! Re-read the first half of page 14 (up to #272) and tell me (while keeping a straight face) that you’re not getting severe Statler & Waldorf vibes?

This thread, like so many others in the Doxa subforum, has now been taken over by a nucleus of maybe half a dozen users, who spend their time complaining for complaining’s sake (like: the dial color-matched rubber straps are too colorful…). Almost every other user, who happens to pop in, leaves almost immediately never to be seen again…

Doesn’t that give you pause?

Bonne nuit!


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

PS: The US are a fairly big country (so I’m told). Thus, it’s hard for a small brand to be present everywhere in brick & mortar stores… What prevents you from mail-ordering the piece you’re interested in and send it back if you don’t like it? 🤷‍♂️

In the EU, customers are guaranteed by law to be able to do that for (at least) 14 days after reception of their order. Surely it’s not completely different in the US (?)

Heck - I think there were even users in the 600T T&T LE thread, who returned their watch even after having WORN it for some days (IIRC…)!


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

valerian839 said:


> I would absolutely love to have a Sub 1500T. But not at $2390.


I’d like a Fifty Fathoms for 5k max. Not gonna happen either. Sucks! 

So I might eventually “have to” settle for a MkII/TR, Borealis Sea Storm or a Helson. Does that hurt my pride? Not really (anymore).

Remember: The luxury industry is mainly selling dreams… If ultimately everything was accessible to a large number of clients, their whole business model would fall flat on its face


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

paysdoufs said:


> Please - be objective! Re-read the first half of page 14 (up to #272) and tell me (while keeping a straight face) that you’re not getting severe Statler & Waldorf vibes?
> 
> This thread, like so many others in the Doxa subforum, has now been taken over by a nucleus of maybe half a dozen users, who spend their time complaining for complaining’s sake (like: the dial color-matched rubber straps are too colorful…). Almost every other user , who happens to pop in, leaves almost immediately never to be seen again…
> 
> ...


I have no idea what Statler & Waldorf is. It sounds like a steakhouse/ fine dining place or a law firm. Either way a place I could not afford or want to go to.

I see far too customer service issues on these threads, repeated. to merely write them off as individual "annecdotes".

I see a VERY small company, that has changed hands too many times in their short existence as a "serious dive watch company". That is under (once again) New management. Having just taken over and is experiencing growing pains.

They have not got their collective crap together enough to provide "superior small company individual attention and customer service" that a small niche brand catering to a rabidly loyal cult like fan base REALLY needs to continue their enthusiasm and continue buying the same stuff over and over again packaged differently as a 1 of xxx or "limited editions" should be. Maybe they'll get over that and it will change for the better.


I view it is a cool watch, stylistically. A retro watch. Technically, average, standard or possibly behind the times. But to some extent (personally) that is what I am looking for and expecting from that retro "look and feel" throw back thing.

But as there is NO AD presence to speak of and no ability to really put you eyes and hands on it. . I can not justify their asking prices. Buying it for pretty much what they are going for used makes it a worthwhile enough gamble to take the shot.


Just because they are small, not yet well managed, company does not mean they don't make a cool piece of gear. or that they can't become one.

I have seen many different companies that made great products fail. Not because their products were not good, great or fantastic. But, because there are TONS of companies competing for those same people. And it's a killer when you hear, "it's a great product. But when i had a problem, they did not treat me right".


And As you put it better than I:
"The luxury industry is mainly selling dreams… "

if they fall flat on their service. they are NOT selling "luxury" or "dreams".


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

seanc01 said:


> I have no idea what Statler & Waldorf is. It sounds like a steakhouse/ fine dining place or a law firm. Either way a place I could not afford or want to go to.


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

valerian839 said:


>


Well I guess I wasn’t too far off then.

but I grew up watch the muppets.. and those guys were awesome!


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

paysdoufs said:


> In the EU, customers are guaranteed by law to be able to do that for (at least) 14 days after reception of their order. Surely it’s not completely different in the US (?)


Waldorf here again, unfortunately Statler was unavailable to comment 
On a previous post I did actually share my experience that I once asked Doxa for a return on a new watch purchased in the UK and dispatched from Wien. This was done within a couple of days of receipt and I was told that they wouldn’t refund it - full stop.
For all I know things may have changed from a few years ago - perhaps others can share their experiences to balance the narrative from my misanthropic perspective?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I don't have anything against the Jenny fish....... if it is on a Jenny watch, but this is a Doxa watch.

Jenny has its own pretty spectacular history and the Jenny family own Doxa but why would they want to "pollute" their own brand image and Doxa's.

Keep the fish on the packaging. Add something like "Doxa, part of the Jenny family" or something but, it's not a Doxa fish, it's a Jenny fish. I think the big J running through it should be a bit of a giveaway for most people.



adg31 said:


> I don’t have anything against the fish - in fact I quite like it and it goes well with the marine heritage of the Doxa SUB - but if they are going to use it as a logo it should, in my view, be used consistently.
> Having the logo on the clasp and crown works well - but why then put it in script only on the dial and an older sailboat logo on the caseback?
> On the Marei era SUB300 it was even worse with a Jenny-fish logo on the clasp. DOXA on the dial and crown and a sailboat on the caseback which made it look a rather charming bitzer (bits of this and bits of that pulled out of a parts bin)!
> The logo should be the unifying embodiment of the brand so consistency is key.
> ...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> Please - be objective! Re-read the first half of page 14 (up to #272) and tell me (while keeping a straight face) that you’re not getting severe Statler & Waldorf vibes?
> 
> This thread, like so many others in the Doxa subforum, has now been taken over by a nucleus of maybe half a dozen users, who spend their time complaining for complaining’s sake (like: the dial color-matched rubber straps are too colorful…). Almost every other user , who happens to pop in, leaves almost immediately never to be seen again…
> 
> ...


Now see... I see the glass half full... There are complete loyalists to the brand in these posts blinded by, the lord only knows what, who defend the poor quality control, poor management, poor customer experience and inflated price by some excuses about size or number of employees which has been continually disproven by other smaller and larger brands offering a similar product for less money.... They quickly disappear when they see they are in the minority here.

FFS you are FRENCH... ZRC is a perfect example of the exact opposite of EVERYTHING people complain about in DOXA. Serica is a perfect example...Dare I say it? Yema has shown me better quality control and service than Doxa. The list of French brands alone who exceed what many of us have seen from Doxa is just about endless.

My nightmare with Doxa was only getting started with the return of my DOA 300T.. 

Why am I here you might ask? Yes... 29% off and never have contact with DOXA is appealing for a cool retro styled diver that fits in perfectly next to my ZRC 1964... The same watch I bought after the mess that unraveled the last time I tried to buy a sub.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> FFS you are FRENCH... ZRC is a perfect example of the exact opposite of EVERYTHING people complain about in DOXA. Serica is a perfect example...Dare I say it? Yema has shown me better quality control and service than Doxa. The list of French brands alone who exceed what many of us have seen from Doxa is just about endless (…)


Wrong on all counts:

I’m not French (otherwise I’d probably find the complaining appealing… )
ZRC has exactly zero customer service IMHO (They never reply to emails or don’t even pick up the phone),
Yema’s after-sales service has been (and still is) abysmal for me - I dread still having to get back in touch with them (There’s a DEDICATED thread in the French Forum à Montres on their ASS problems, but the subject does NOT pollute all the rest of the Yema subforum there).
I’ve had excellent customer experience from Tudor, TAG Heuer, Edox and everyone from the SwatchGroup. But would I take my personal experience for gospel? Certainly not…


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

adg31 said:


> Waldorf here again, unfortunately Statler was unavailable to comment
> On a previous post I did actually share my experience that I once asked Doxa for a return on a new watch purchased in the UK and dispatched from Wien. This was done within a couple of days of receipt and I was told that they wouldn’t refund it - full stop.
> For all I know things may have changed from a few years ago - (…)


They certainly have…

Jenny-Doxa is serving EU customers out of Pforzheim, Germany. Their whole mail-order business is thus governed by the EU legislation (“Fernabgabegesetz”) I mentioned above. 

After Brexit, you might obviously non longer be protected by that specific EU law, but I guess it’s best to ask them directly what their procedures for mail-order UK costumers currently are (rather than extrapolate from a “historic” situation that is no longer applicable)…


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

paysdoufs said:


> They certainly have…
> 
> Jenny-Doxa is serving EU customers out of Pforzheim, Germany. Their whole mail-order business is thus governed by the EU legislation (“Fernabgabegesetz”) I mentioned above.
> 
> After Brexit, you might obviously non longer be protected by that specific EU law, but I guess it’s best to ask them directly what their procedures for mail-order UK costumers currently are (rather than extrapolate from a “historic” situation that is no longer applicable)…


The last time I checked Wien, from where the watch was dispatched, was in Austria which was part of the EU and the UK, to which the watch was to be delivered, was still pre-Brexit so part of the EU.
Despite this Doxa were firmly of the opinion that the distance selling regulations didn’t apply to them and refunds were not possible.
For me, this is simply part of a narrative as to why I don’t believe buying from Joma Shop without Doxa support is a problem if people wish to save themselves 25% or so.
This said, looking this morning I must say that I’m surprised at the number of models still available given your views on the brand and it’s value at full retail price - but then again we don’t know how many units they have available for sale.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

paysdoufs said:


> Tons of people actually owning and wearing Doxa SUBs are doing just that: Buy on bracelet, wear on a third-party rubber. So where’s the problem? If you don’t like Doxa’s rubber straps, just don’t buy them (IMHO they’re severely overpriced anyway)


My main dislike is the colored Jenny fish on the crown in case I wasn't clear enough. And if I bought a Doxa SUB, I would wear in on the BOR bracelet primarily. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

@adg31 :

















IIRC, Doxa have set up shop in Pforzheim about 3 years ago, so probably still pre-Brexit. I would thus assume that they’ve served UK customers at least at some point in time. To know for sure whether they’re still in charge of UK mail-order customers, it’s probably best to simply call them.

You having been served out of Vienna sounds like it might have occurred during a brief transition period between the „two iterations of Doxa“  But if it happened pre-Brexit, I still cannot see how they could have claimed that the EU distance selling revocation right (which I pasted above) wouldn’t apply (if we’re talking about a watch still in mint condition)… Personally, I would have stood my ground or handed it over to my legal protection 

As to the value proposition of their current 300/600 SUBs: As I’ve already stated previously, the Jomashop „sale“ is pretty much a non-event for EU customers, who have to pay VAT and duties on import (YMMV). But comparing these Doxa watches to the offerings of ZRC, Squale, Zodiac or Edox (the new Hydro-Sub), I just don't think that their prices are off the charts (comparing everyone at full retail from authorized sellers). That said, if one wants a well-priced (cushion-case) diver with historical pedigree from its „original“ brand and which offers great bang-for-buck, I think the Seiko Willard is probably the way to go - if you can get one with good QC…


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> Wrong on all counts:
> 
> I’m not French (otherwise I’d probably find the complaining appealing… )
> ZRC has exactly zero customer service IMHO (They never reply to emails or don’t even pick up the phone),
> ...


You aren't French? I suppose I assumed you were from the French flag and the subtle anti America comments..my apologies. 

Yeah, because the Swatch Group is in any way similar in size, quality our volume like Doxa.. 

ZRC has been nothing but amazing for me on multiple occasions. Even send me a gift and a signed thanks you card..

Yema has had issues but in my 4 purchases, the only issue I experienced is a delay in shipping during the Holiday season. I'm sure the are selling way more volume than Doxa. Thats exactly 4 more running watches and 4 more flawless transactions with Yema than I had with Doxa  I bet I was just lucky though...


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

paysdoufs said:


> @adg31 :
> View attachment 16505180
> 
> View attachment 16505181
> ...


Yes, we’re talking about a fully stickered up, brand new, unused watch one day after it arrived direct from Doxa in Vienna.
It would certainly be interesting to hear from anyone with experience of returning an item to Doxa recently?
Similarly my Doxa SUB300 Searambler with the misaligned date came direct from Doxa but again they would do nothing to put it right as it was the fault of ETA and they have no control over what they are sent - for a watch costing over £2,000 surely you can’t say that this is acceptable?
On the back of this I simply don’t trust them to support their product - I accept that my experience may well be the exception to the rule but I can only live my experience.
The tragedy of the piece for me is that they looked great, were very good timekeepers, incredibly comfortable to wear and I still love the look of them - truly a case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!
Gratuitous photograph just for the heck of it!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> You aren't French? I suppose I assumed you were from the French flag and the subtle anti America comments..my apologies.


As long as theyr're subtle  And there’s no need to apologize for assuming I was French - I didn’t take it as an insult 



STARSTELLA said:


> Yeah, because the Swatch Group is in any way similar in size, quality our volume like Doxa..


Not sure whether it is about the size (which may help, nevertheless). Maybe more about company culture/attitude towards customers and the availability of brand boutiques (which are essentially a marketing instrument, IMHO).



STARSTELLA said:


> ZRC has been nothing but amazing for me on multiple occasions. Even send me a gift and a signed thanks you card..


Than we have totally different experiences: Every interaction I had with them (their HQ, mind you!) was cumbersome; and communication-wise they've always been sub-zero for me.



STARSTELLA said:


> Yema has had issues but in my 4 purchases, the only issue I experienced is a delay in shipping during the Holiday season. I'm sure the are selling way more volume than Doxa. Thats exactly 4 more running watches and 4 more flawless transactions with Yema than I had with Doxa  I bet I was just lucky though...


Solid sample size, which suggests you’re on a winning streak. Maybe quickly play some game of chance  But more seriously: Doesn’t that simply show (again) that personal experiences vary widely and that there really isn’t any added value in dwelling on the same (negative) ones long-term and/or extrapolate them to the whole brand?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> As long as theyr're subtle  And there’s no need to apologize for assuming I was French - I didn’t take it as an insult
> 
> 
> Not sure whether it is about the size (which may help, nevertheless). Maybe more about company culture/attitude towards customers and the availability of brand boutiques (which are essentially a marketing instrument, IMHO).
> ...


** It does show its about personal experience but when a French company NOTORIOUS for all the same issues, offering multiple models at a higher volume than Doxa can successfully exceed my expectations (and mine are pretty high), it really sheds the spot light on the short comings of Doxa.


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

So, an odd thing happened...

I purchased a 300T Searambler from Jomashop via PayPal which connects to my Credit Card.

As expected, the purchase resulted in a pending transaction on my CC. 

The pending transaction on the CC all of a sudden disappeared today while it still shows up as pending in PayPal.

Has this happened to anyone else in conjunction with their Doxa purchase from Joma?


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> **I've had prompt responses to all emails and requests. they've been helpful with small parts as needed... and they ARE French and even know I'm AMERICAN!
> 
> ** It does show its about personal experience but when a French company NOTORIOUS for all the same issues, offering multiple models at a higher volume than Doxa can successfully exceed my expectations (and mine are pretty high), it really sheds the spot light on the short comings of Doxa.


Just for the sake of nitpicking… 

While historically they're certainly French, to my knowledge modern ZRC is now (solely) incorporated in Switzerland (Collonges-Bellerive, Canton Geneva). These are the ones never picking up the phone or replying to my emails…

_Pour la petite histoire_… : There is still a French brand named ZRC, but their business is selling leather straps and bracelets (now part of Rochet group, apparently: History - Rochet Group). And without being entirely sure, I believe I once heard that modern-day ZRC (i.e., the Swiss watchmaker) still has some finishing touches for their bracelets done in Annecy, maybe by Rochet (after all GVA and Annecy are only distant by 40 km)…

You‘ll see the historical ties when you compare the Rochet company history in the link above with the one on ZRC's webpage: The brand - History - ZRC 1904 | La vie est aventures. Could well be that The two Brunets running ZRC and Rochet as the respective CEOs today are close relatives brothers (…Edited).


----------



## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

PS: Looks like the Rochet group has now fully dropped the “ZRC” moniker for their watch leather straps and bracelets. Presumably to put an end to the confusion…








Catalogue Bracelet Montre 2022


Read Catalogue Bracelet Montre 2022 by Zuccolo Rochet France on Issuu and browse thousands of other publications on our platform. Start here!




issuu.com






https://rochetgroup.fr/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/00-Cata-2022-Livre-BD.pdf


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> Just for the sake of nitpicking…
> 
> While historically they're certainly French, to my knowledge modern ZRC is now (solely) incorporated in Switzerland (Collonges-Bellerive, Canton Geneva). These are the ones never picking up the phone or replying to my emails…
> 
> ...


Yes... that's nick picking and you completely missed the point I made. French, Swiss, German... Malaysian...whatever ZRC, Serica, YEMA are.... they ALL have shown me superior products, service, and experience that Doxa. These are brands who operate a similar direct to consumer business model without having a massive footprint in the industry.

Your point that they are Swiss and not French stregthens my point that they are on an even more similar playing field.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

jorgenl said:


> So, an odd thing happened...
> 
> I purchased a 300T Searambler from Jomashop via PayPal which connects to my Credit Card.
> 
> ...


By disappeared, do you mean your card was charged, or did the transaction vanish entirely?

Joma still has a bunch of DOXAs on their site. The model I ordered now says ships in 5-7 days.


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

BigBluefish said:


> By disappeared, do you mean your card was charged, or did the transaction vanish entirely?
> 
> Joma still has a bunch of DOXAs on their site. The model I ordered now says ships in 5-7 days.


Transaction vanished entirely


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## daveswordfish (Aug 17, 2010)

They put an authorization hold on your card at the time of purchase. The hold expired. They will charge the card when the watch ships. Until then, you’ll only see the pending sale on PayPal 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> Yes... that's nick picking and you completely missed the point I made. French, Swiss, German... Malaysian...whatever ZRC, Serica, YEMA are.... they ALL have shown me superior products, service, and experience that Doxa. These are brands who operate a similar direct to consumer business model without having a massive footprint in the industry.
> 
> Your point that they are Swiss and not French stregthens my point that they are on an even more similar playing field.


I’m not arguing with the fact that it shouldn’t matter where a company is based to provide satisfactory customer service - it’s just that you made it sound that you had received good customer service from ZRC …DESPITE… them being French  That’s the point I piggybacked on.

I do agree that Doxa and ZRC share pretty much the same playing fiel…

[/OT] from my side


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

As an FYI... Joma's site now says Doxa is shipping in 5-7 days.

I have two on order just in case they are not holding true to their word in pulling SKUs down when they sold out... and counts were accurate. We'll see!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> I’m not arguing with the fact that it shouldn’t matter where a company is based to provide satisfactory customer service - it’s just that you made it sound that you had received good customer service from ZRC …DESPITE… them being French  That’s the point I piggybacked on.
> 
> I do agree that Doxa and ZRC share pretty much the same playing fiel…
> 
> [/OT] from my side


Indeed... ZRC.. Being French perceives poor service especially towards yanks. However, that was more the icing on the cake. It was more about size of company, space within the market that ZRC occupies being similar to Doxa as you said


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

daveswordfish said:


> They put an authorization hold on your card at the time of purchase. The hold expired. They will charge the card when the watch ships. Until then, you’ll only see the pending sale on PayPal
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That explains it


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Although I didn't order any watches from Joma, I'm excited for the guys that did because they should start shipping real soon. Looking forward to seeing the Joma Doxa pics


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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

STARSTELLA said:


> As an FYI... Joma's site now says Doxa is shipping in 5-7 days.
> 
> I have two on order just in case they are not holding true to their word in pulling SKUs down when they sold out... and counts were accurate. We'll see!


I just ordered a 300t Searambler. Order went through and now it is marked sold out on the website so I must have bought the last 300t. Ships in 5-7.
Psyched!


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Although I didn't order any watches from Joma, I'm excited for the guys that did because they should start shipping real soon. Looking forward to seeing the Joma Doxa pics


I'm excited, my very first Doxa


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## bigvic (May 15, 2010)

I’m just curious but is there anyone who’s ordered one of these Doxa’s and awaiting delivery to the UK or EU?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

bigvic said:


> I’m just curious but is there anyone who’s ordered one of these Doxa’s and awaiting delivery to the UK or EU?


A friend of mine said with the chances of having to pay duty tax of sorts into Scotland it wasn't that great of a deal. I'm not sure what the tax rate is based on of course.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

STARSTELLA said:


> A friend of mine said with the chances of having to pay duty tax of sorts into Scotland it wasn't that great of a deal. I'm not sure what the tax rate is based on of course.


It’s usually just 20% VAT plus any clearance charges so it is still a decent saving of a few hundred quid on the SUB300 on rubber - depending upon what discount anyone got locally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

lanjim said:


> I've tried to order two watches from them with their multi week lead time. Neither ever materialized. Joma is great if it's in stock or less than a week lead time. Anything outside of that has been a pipedream from me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-F711U1 using Tapatalk


I tried to order a Certina Super DS PH500M under a similar lead time. I cancelled the order after a few months. Unless they immediately have it, they don't seem to be able to get it.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

My wallet is just glad their TGraph don't have the BOR or I'd be well and truly in the dog house - anyone bought one in the sale?


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## dabouser (Dec 11, 2021)

8505davids said:


> My wallet is just glad their TGraph don't have the BOR or I'd be well and truly in the dog house - anyone bought one in the sale?


still looking, not 100% sure


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## WatchDialOrange (Dec 30, 2011)

8505davids said:


> My wallet is just glad their TGraph don't have the BOR or I'd be well and truly in the dog house - anyone bought one in the sale?





dabouser said:


> still looking, not 100% sure


Me too its very tempting


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

8505davids said:


> My wallet is just glad their TGraph don't have the BOR or I'd be well and truly in the dog house - anyone bought one in the sale?


 Ordered one about 2 weeks ago and immediately showed out of stock after. Will post pics if I get it next week. All models show a lead time of 3-5 days now.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Short wait left fellas. Hopefully no hick ups. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

When are these supposed to ship?


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Joma site is still saying 3-5 days.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

I wonder if everyone is actually going to get get their orders...I'm wondering if Jomashop's listing for Doxas is speculative, rather than representative of a lot of watches that have already been purchased, and in the process of transport / delivery.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Guess we’ll find out this week.


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## sglider (Nov 21, 2007)

bellbrass said:


> I wonder if everyone is actually going to get get their orders...I'm wondering if Jomashop's listing for Doxas is speculative, rather than representative of a lot of watches that have already been purchased, and in the process of transport / delivery.


Earlier in this thread someone posted that (according to a Jomashop representative) these were actual watches that Jomashop purchased from a more-than-likely former Doxa authorized dealer.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

sglider said:


> Earlier in this thread someone posted that (according to a Jomashop representative) these were actual watches that Jomashop purchased from a more-than-likely former Doxa authorized dealer.


Yep - saw that on the thread - but I still wonder if it's a "on their way" situation, or a "might happen, might not" deal. Maybe I'll try to call them as well.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

bellbrass said:


> Yep - saw that on the thread - but I still wonder if it's a "on their way" situation, or a "might happen, might not" deal. Maybe I'll try to call them as well.


When I spoke to them, the agent I was talking to put me on hold a few times to confirm the answers to my questions. The biggest takeaway I got was that there was a confirmed number of each SKU coming and if they sold through the confirmed number, they would pull them off the web. This runs parallel to what we've seen. In the first few days that Joma Offered Doxa, there were over 50 SKUs, as of this morning they are down to 34.

That being said, I bought two watches just to make sure I get my first and second choices. Assuming they ship in some sort of order of when the sale transpired, I'll cancel the 2nd when the original order ships. 

I too have had mixed experience over the years with them. Once the order ships its usually smooth sailing, but I've had some items never ship.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

STARSTELLA said:


> When I spoke to them, the agent I was talking to put me on hold a few times to confirm the answers to my questions. The biggest takeaway I got was that there was a confirmed number of each SKU coming and if they sold through the confirmed number, they would pull them off the web. This runs parallel to what we've seen. In the first few days that Joma Offered Doxa, there were over 50 SKUs, as of this morning they are down to 34.
> 
> That being said, I bought two watches just to make sure I get my first and second choices. Assuming they ship in some sort of order of when the sale transpired, I'll cancel the 2nd when the original order ships.
> 
> I too have had mixed experience over the years with them. Once the order ships its usually smooth sailing, but I've had some items never ship.


Thanks for the details - makes me think I won't get any more info if I call; I will just wait and see - I think they told you the watches will ship at the end of this month, correct?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

bellbrass said:


> Thanks for the details - makes me think I won't get any more info if I call; I will just wait and see - I think they told you the watches will ship at the end of this month, correct?


Yeah... It was a pretty painful 35 minutes on the phone with them (time I'll not get back in my life  ). Initially I was told a solid date of the 28th to ship.. which mathematically is past the listed ETA on the SKUs now, so that's a nice job of underpromising with the potential of over delivering. Mentally I told myself if I get what I ordered it was going to be the 1st week of next month anyway, so if all goes as planned I might be pleasantly surprised as soon as the end of this week or early next week. I'm 1-2 days shipping away from them....Fingers Crossed.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

I think because the shipping time is decreasing it’s safe to assume these watches will ship. Usually if they don’t have an item the shipping is listed as 6- 10 weeks.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BobMartian said:


> I think because the shipping time is decreasing it’s safe to assume these watches will ship. Usually if they don’t have an item the shipping is listed as 6- 10 weeks.


I ordered an Oris Divers 65 from them when the watch was first released. The ship time was 10 weeks and they had it to me 3 days early. I honestly forgot all about it until it showed up! Talk about Christmas morning!


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

STARSTELLA said:


> I ordered an Oris Divers 65 from them when the watch was first released. The ship time was 10 weeks and they had it to me 3 days early. I honestly forgot all about it until it showed up! Talk about Christmas morning!


I ordered an Omega. Website said 6- 10 weeks. Never shipped. My order inquiries went unanswered. All good, I bought it from the OB at full retail


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BobMartian said:


> I ordered an Omega. Website said 6- 10 weeks. Never shipped. My order inquiries went unanswered. All good, I bought it from the OB at full retail


That happened to me too. twice... lol its a mixed bag there!


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Joma still showing 3-5 days shipping.
Same as it did uh... 3-5 days ago.



Now I think I have it figured out: When none of the numerous DOXA models offered up by Joma materialize, DOXA expects all its heartbroken fans to pile on the launch of the latest Jenny 300 version!

Truly diabolical.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

BigBluefish said:


> Joma still showing 3-5 days shipping.
> Same as it did uh... 3-5 days ago.


It's still 3-5 days, just don't which 3-5 days it will be.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

STARSTELLA said:


> Yeah... It was a pretty painful 35 minutes on the phone with them (time I'll not get back in my life  ). Initially I was told a solid date of the 28th to ship.. which mathematically is past the listed ETA on the SKUs now, so that's a nice job of underpromising with the potential of over delivering. Mentally I told myself if I get what I ordered it was going to be the 1st week of next month anyway, so if all goes as planned I might be pleasantly surprised as soon as the end of this week or early next week. I'm 1-2 days shipping away from them....Fingers Crossed.


Thanks for the efforts and info...I guess hurry up and wait!


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Well I'm exited to see if/when those who've ordered receive their watches. I placed an order as well and am waiting with bated breath. Photos please when they come!!


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

It’s been noted that new models ship with dial color matching logos on the crown. It’ll be interesting to see what JS buyers receive.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

BobMartian said:


> It’s been noted that new models ship with dial color matching logos on the crown. It’ll be interesting to see what JS buyers receive.


Ahh, yes - very interesting. I wonder if this is an old stock purge.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

BobMartian said:


> It’s been noted that new models ship with dial color matching logos on the crown. It’ll be interesting to see what JS buyers receive.


So, us Searambler guys will be getting “stealth logos? Actually, if these have been sitting around some distributor or AD before going to Joma, I’d guess they are set up with the legacy logo scheme, which I think was orange for everyone?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Shipping in 1-3 days as of this morning for those who have placed orders.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

STARSTELLA said:


> Shipping in 1-3 days as of this morning for those who have placed orders.


To paraphrase the late, great Buddy Holly:
‘every day it’s a getting closer,
goin’ faster than a rollercoaster,
my new watch will surely come my way, a-hey, hey...’
Let’s just hope that when it arrives there isn’t an issue with the timekeeping when ‘everyday it’s a getting faster…’ 
Fingers crossed for everyone who ordered


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Awesom-O 4000 (Sep 20, 2018)

Does Doxa charge sales tax? If I buy from Joma I'd have to pay tax. I'm just trying to compare.

EDIT: I called. Shouldn't be sales tax if I buy direct, so the Joma discount wouldn't be as much for me.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Color matching crown might be a way to tell if the movement is ETA or Sellitta


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Awesom-O 4000 said:


> Does Doxa charge sales tax? If I buy from Joma I'd have to pay tax. I'm just trying to compare.
> 
> EDIT: I called. Shouldn't be sales tax if I buy direct, so the Joma discount wouldn't be as much for me.


There are always two things in life that will never disappear…. death and taxes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Awesom-O 4000 said:


> Does Doxa charge sales tax? If I buy from Joma I'd have to pay tax. I'm just trying to compare.
> 
> EDIT: I called. Shouldn't be sales tax if I buy direct, so the Joma discount wouldn't be as much for me.


The shipping laws for taxation in e-commerce changed a few years ago. most bigger retailers charge sales tax to all 50 states. The rule of thumb was if you were going to send $100K of merchandise into any state per year, you would want to charge sales tax. I don't know how much that has charged since the start of those new laws.

I work in an industry that was heavily impacted by that change.


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

STARSTELLA said:


> The shipping laws for taxation in e-commerce changed a few years ago. most bigger retailers charge sales tax to all 50 states. The rule of thumb was if you were going to send $100K of merchandise into any state per year, you would want to charge sales tax. I don't know how much that has charged since the start of those new laws.
> 
> I work in an industry that was heavily impacted by that change.


I went on the official Doxa site and did a mock order for the 300T. They didn't want to charge me any sales tax. $1890 OTD


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

300T is $1456 with tax on JS


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

Awesom-O 4000 said:


> Does Doxa charge sales tax? If I buy from Joma I'd have to pay tax. I'm just trying to compare.
> 
> EDIT: I called. Shouldn't be sales tax if I buy direct, so the Joma discount wouldn't be as much for me.


They don't charge sales tax, but you will have to pay customs, because the watch is shipped from the EU.
If you buy from Joma, you get charged your state's sales tax.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> I went on the official Doxa site and did a mock order for the 300T. They didn't want to charge me any sales tax. $1890 OTD


Right. I can't see Doxa sending 100K per year to every state out of the Doxa USA facility. Hence no tax. But to the point its still significantly cheaper at Joma even with the tax assuming they still offer the color way you want.


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

Just ordered the 300 Sharkhunter, really hope this works out


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## NS1 (May 12, 2015)

bellbrass said:


> They don't charge sales tax, but you will have to pay customs, because the watch is shipped from the EU.
> If you buy from Joma, you get charged your state's sales tax.


Not exactly. I looked through my Doxa order confirmations from 2021 and, in each instance: (i) no sales tax was charged; and (ii) even though ordered from Doxa's website, the order advised that my card would be charged and the order fulfilled by its U.S. e-commerce partner (Purchase Direct). I also recall the order shipping out of New York in every instance. If the purchase is being structured so that I am buying from a NA distributor in New York, no customs should be charged, but they should be charging sales tax.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

NS1 said:


> Not exactly. I looked through my Doxa order confirmations from 2021 and, in each instance: (i) no sales tax was charged; and (ii) even though ordered from Doxa's website, the order advised that my card would be charged and the order fulfilled by its U.S. e-commerce partner (Purchase Direct). I also recall the order shipping out of New York in every instance. If the purchase is being structured so that I am buying from a NA distributor in New York, no customs should be charged, but they should be charging sales tax.


Ahh. I didn't know they had stock in the USA, at least as official Doxa stock. I seem to remember having to pay customs when I ordered my first Doxa, a SUB 1200, back in 2011. Or maybe I paid customs on one of my Jennys. Can't remember.


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

I called Joma earlier in the week. System says will ship on the 28th.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

TraserH3 said:


> I called Joma earlier in the week. System says will ship on the 28th.


I think that's the date in their system all along, but this morning the "ships date" was 1-3 days... for those of us in need of a dopamine boost, lets hope it ships before next week hahahahaha


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

STARSTELLA said:


> I think that's the date in their system all along, but this morning the "ships date" was 1-3 days... for those of us in need of a dopamine boost, lets hope it ships before next week hahahahaha


I hope so, my BOR I ordered from Doxa comes in on Thursday. Apparently it was the last one in the warehouse.


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

Well, I couldn't resist. Always wanted another go-round with the Divingstar and much prefer the "T" variant to the COSC so grabbed one of the last in that config, Now we wait -- ship or no ship, I'm fine either way, but I hate dealing with Doxa these days in any way, shape or form, and the colour of the crown bothers me not, so we'll see how it goes. 

Thanks for the tipoff and useful discussion, folks.


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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

Anyone have experience with a Yobokies or other aftermarket BOR bracelets on the 300t? I have a Searambler coming on a strap and want a BOR also but the Doxa BOR end link doesn't fully articulate. That is a problem for my smaller wrist.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

The end of the week has come, and, alas, no shipping notification from JS. Anybody get a shipping update? Trying to wait patiently.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Think someone posted earlier that they had talked to Joma and shipping was scheduled for 3/28?


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Well there should be plenty of new Doxa owners flooding WUS next week with 30% off Subs. Wonder how that will go over with the hard core fanbois


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

A 30% off Doxa is 100% better


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> A 30% off Doxa is 100% better


Agreed, these should be the normal prices and then have sales periodically. But hey if your dial needs to say Doxa, by all means go for it.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

Watchout63 said:


> Well there should be plenty of new Doxa owners flooding WUS next week with 30% off Subs. Wonder how that will go over with the hard core fanbois


It's not like people who buy Doxa do it for resale value. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

Watchout63 said:


> Agreed, these should be the normal prices and then have sales periodically. But hey if your dial needs to say Doxa, by all means go for it.


IDK. I'm no "fanboi" but I've owned quite a few Doxas, and they've been solid, well-made watches that worked well as the dive watches I used them for, took a lot of punishment underwater without much effect beyond the cosmetic and were generally comfortable, durable and not particularly overpriced for the package. I've also had quite a few less than satisfactory interactions with Doxa EU's customer service, and I'm not minded to revisit that particular can of worms.

I feel no need for a dial that says Doxa, but given the dive watch landscape, 1300.00 for a SUB300T is a nice deal. Would I buy it at 1895.00? No, but then I've already owned a few. Would I drop 400.00 on a Doxa homage watch that may or may not survive a swim? No way.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

heineken4u said:


> It's not like people who buy Doxa do it for resale value.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


Have you seen the Doxa sales on here? Depreciation is a foreign concept to many. I can guarantee you 30% of these buyers will flip these in short order, just like the Synchron Army.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Kirkawall said:


> I feel no need for a dial that says Doxa, but given the dive watch landscape, 1300.00 for a SUB300T is a nice deal. Would I buy it at 1895.00? No, but then I've already owned a few.


My point exactly



Kirkawall said:


> Would I drop 400.00 on a Doxa homage watch that may or may not survive a swim? No way.


So you don't believe the homages WR rating is real?


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

Watchout63 said:


> Have you seen the Doxa sales on here? Depreciation is a foreign concept to many. I can guarantee you 30% of these buyers will flip these in short order, just like the Synchron Army.


Have you seen the [insert non-Rolex brand] sales here? I guarantee you that 30% of [insert watch brand] will flip these in short order, just like the [insert FoTM watch model]. 

I mean, maybe. But so what? People here flip all kinds of watches, all the time. I'm not sure Doxa or Tudor or Sinn or Lange or Omega or Oris or G-Shock or whatever is exempt from this practice.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Kirkawall said:


> Have you seen the [insert non-Rolex brand] sales here? I guarantee you that 30% of [insert watch brand] will flip these in short order, just like the [insert FoTM watch model].
> 
> I mean, maybe. But so what? People here flip all kinds of watches, all the time. I'm not sure Doxa or Tudor or Sinn or Lange or Omega or Oris or G-Shock or whatever is exempt from this practice.


True, but this is a Doxa sale thread, so I try to stay on topic. Perhaps a cool Molson will help you out eh?


----------



## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

Watchout63 said:


> True, but this is a Doxa sale thread, so I try to stay on topic. *Perhaps a cool Molson will help you out eh?*


That's a juvenile and offensive response, as you well know. Reported.



In other news, looking forward to seeing some delivery notices for those who picked up a new piece in the sale. Hopefully they arrive in good order, and bring you some pleasure. Happy waiting.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Kirkawall said:


> That's a juvenile and offensive response, as you well know. Reported.
> 
> 
> 
> In other news, looking forward to seeing some delivery notices for those who picked up a new piece in the sale. Hopefully they arrive in good order, and bring you some pleasure. Happy waiting.


lmao, ok Francis. You're Canadian, so I tried to make light of your overly zealous replies, but you do you.


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## CMSgt Bo (Feb 12, 2006)

Kirkawall said:


> That's a juvenile and offensive response, as you well know. Reported.


Noted...you both need to knock it off.


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

I ordered mine on the first day of the sale, no shipping info yet.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Not trying to stir anything. This really is a genuine question. Why would anyone take offence at this? Obviously I'm missing something. Is it from a TV show or book or something and is considered a great insult. Serious head scratcher for me

*Perhaps a cool Molson will help you out eh?*


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> lmao, ok Francis. You're Canadian, so I tried to make light of your overly zealous replies, but you do you.


I use the "Francis" reference almost weekly. Still one of my top 10 movies.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Not trying to stir anything. This really is a genuine question. Why would anyone take offence at this? Obviously I'm missing something. Is it from a TV show or book or something and is considered a great insult. Serious head scratcher for me
> 
> *Perhaps a cool Molson will help you out eh?*


Could’ve at least picked a good beer.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

bellbrass said:


> That is correct. No Authorized Dealer, no Doxa warranty. If it breaks, you send it back to Jomashop at your expense, and they find an available watchmaker to fix it. The watchmaker may or may not have experience on fixing your brand of watch. Trust me on this. It happened to me with a couple of watches purchased from Jomashop.


Any decent watchmaker should be able tom fix it. I would assume that Jomashop have their own repairers and warranties? I have never bought from them so not sure


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Totally correct. All this fear over a watch with a Selita movement. What's to break? Movement? Easily fixed by anyone. Bezel spring? Hell, you can literally make them from a paperclip. Bit of an exaggeration but not that much. Crystal. You can have them made. Problem areas are if you need a crown or bezel. There are a Doxa only job. How many people have returned their Doxa within a warranty period for a new crown or bezel? Not too many, I'd wager.



Pete26 said:


> Any decent watchmaker should be able tom fix it.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Pete26 said:


> Any decent watchmaker should be able tom fix it. I would assume that Jomashop have their own repairers and warranties? I have never bought from them so not sure


I think they use a thirty party service for "warranty" issues. I've bought from them with varied success over the years. I don't think I'd buy something with an in house movement but as far as mass produced stuff, why not? It not much different from buying a watch from a member here if something goes wrong and many times their prices are inline or pretty close to the used prices.


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

newhaven1410 said:


> Anyone have experience with a Yobokies or other aftermarket BOR bracelets on the 300t? I have a Searambler coming on a strap and want a BOR also but the Doxa BOR end link doesn't fully articulate. That is a problem for my smaller wrist.


There's a thread here that might help you out -- not sure how useful it is for the current designs:









Doxa 300t bracelet alternatives


I can't stand my Doxa bracelet. Im at the weird spot where one link is the difference between choking my wrist or being too loose, and I don't like rocking it with the dive extention out. I plan on picking up a Forstner for it soon. Does anyone else with more experience with the watch have any...




www.watchuseek.com


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## King_Neptune (Mar 3, 2015)

This thread is a month old now. Maybe I missed it, but has anyone received a watch yet? Just curious whether I actually missed out on anything worthwhile.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

King_Neptune said:


> This thread is a month old now. Maybe I missed it, but has anyone received a watch yet? Just curious whether I actually missed out on anything worthwhile.


From the day they were available to buy at Joma, the shipping date was March 28th, so lots of presales, but nothing shipped yet.


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## King_Neptune (Mar 3, 2015)

STARSTELLA said:


> From the day they were available to buy at Joma, the shipping date was March 28th, so lots of presales, but nothing shipped yet.


Thx.


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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

This has probably been said but for the watches purchased through Joma, is payment due at purchase or shipment? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

martin_blank said:


> This has probably been said but for the watches purchased through Joma, is payment due at purchase or shipment?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I input my CC info at purchase but my card has been pending the entire time. I think others have said the same


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

I hope that everyone gets a shipping confirmation in their email tomorrow, hoping for the best!


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Once I work in my state tax, it's right at $500.00 off list price on the 300 I want sans bracelet. I figure I could probably flip the ugly rubber bracelet on ebay for about $150.00 minus auction. A mesh bracelet will set me back about $75.00. For $575.00 off with no beads of rice and no factory warranty, it seems hardly worth it.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> Once I work in my state tax, it's right at $500.00 off list price on the 300 I want sans bracelet. I figure I could probably flip the ugly rubber bracelet on ebay for about $150.00 minus auction. A mesh bracelet will set me back about $75.00. For $575.00 off with no beads of rice and no factory warranty, it seems hardly worth it.


Ironically, the "no factory warranty" was a selling point for many. Their idea of service in the USA just seals the deal for me! hahaha


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

STARSTELLA said:


> Ironically, the "no factory warranty" was a selling point for many. Their idea of service in the USA just seals the deal for me! hahaha


It is lousy, no doubt. I can't argue that. My thought is getting a crystal or crown, not the movement. Doxa CS is garbage.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> It is lousy, no doubt. I can't argue that. My thought is getting a crystal or crown, not the movement. Impossible.


Thats valid, but over 30% off is a pretty solid deal-once these dry up, its pretty well below used resale at the moment. Once in the cart there another $50.00 off coupon you can apply. I did grab an AM 300T on the BOR even though I have no intension of using the bracelet. Seemed the safe route for future resale if that day came.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> Thats valid, but over 30% off is a pretty solid deal-once these dry up, its pretty well below used Basle at the moment. Once in the cart there another $50.00 off coupon you can apply. I did grab an AM 300T on the BOR even though I have no intension of using the bracelet. Seemed the safe route for future resale if that day came.


I also feel like if you needed a crystal or a crown it likely wouldn't be a warranty issue, right?


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

STARSTELLA said:


> Thats valid, but over 30% off is a pretty solid deal-once these dry up, its pretty well below used Basle at the moment. Once in the cart there another $50.00 off coupon you can apply. I did grab an AM 300T on the BOR even though I have no intension of using the bracelet. Seemed the safe route for future resale if that day came.





STARSTELLA said:


> I also feel like if you needed a crystal or a crown it likely wouldn't be a warranty issue, right?


Maybe. I'm more concerned they just wouldn't answer the emails to obtain those without a legal obligation. I have a Deco that needed servicing and gave up as the emails going back and forth about whether they could oil and clean a watch purchased in 2008 became tiresome. I'm still debating it, however, but am leaning no. CS is a black hole.


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> Maybe. I'm more concerned they just wouldn't answer the emails to obtain those without a legal obligation. I have a Deco that needed servicing and gave up as the emails going back and forth about whether they could oil and clean a watch purchased in 2008 became tiresome. I'm still debating it, however, but am leaning no. CS is a black hole.


I have had similar experiences. I fee; like Doxa US tries a bit harder, and there are a few direct emails I managed to find thanks to folks here that helped sort the problems with one Doxa, but I would not use them unless I absolutely had to, warranty or not. 

The cases and crystals should be fine and the basic movement is easy to regulate and service, as has been noted here. The one issue I've had is a mis-cut crown that makes for poor or no hand-winding, and on the older Soprod movements strange PR issues. 

So it's a gamble, but so is buying used without a transferable warranty. Hopefully these are legit and all is well.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> Maybe. I'm more concerned they just wouldn't answer the emails to obtain those without a legal obligation. I have a Deco that needed servicing and gave up as the emails going back and forth about whether they could oil and clean a watch purchased in 2008 became tiresome. I'm still debating it, however, but am leaning no. CS is a black hole.


I've collected for over 25 years and a Doxa was always on my list but never got around to adding one until November of last year which turned into the single worst watch purchase experience of my life. Their CS was horrific. I posted here and it got nasty enough that admins moved the post to feedback section. I'm really lucky to have a local watchmaker who still charges me like its 1975. In all honesty, my complete horror story with Doxa USA wouldn't have even been an issue if I had trusted my gut and just taken the DOA 300T to him in the first place.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

I inquired about potential DOXA warranty work on a Sub 200 I bought from Watches of Switzerland. DOXA USA told me I had to talk to WOS. WOS said I had to take it into their local Mayor's subsidiary. Mayor's said 12-15 weeks turnaround time from DOXA.

Ultimately, the lesson I took away was that I might as well be on my own than use the DOXA warranty. That makes the price from WOS or DOXA a bit over-priced, IMO.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

valerian839 said:


> I inquired about potential DOXA warranty work on a Sub 200 I bought from Watches of Switzerland. DOXA USA told me I had to talk to WOS. WOS said I had to take it into their local Mayor's subsidiary. Mayor's said 12-15 weeks turnaround time from DOXA.
> 
> Ultimately, the lesson I took away was that I might as well be on my own than use the DOXA warranty. That makes the price from WOS or DOXA a bit over-priced, IMO.


When I got my DOA, Doxa USA told me I had to send the watch I had for 4 hours back to Switzerland for the warranty. In November, they claimed a 10 week turnaround as well.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

STARSTELLA said:


> When I got my DOA, Doxa USA told me I had to send the watch I had for 4 hours back to Switzerland for the warranty. In November, they claimed a 10 week turnaround as well.


In my flyover part of the USA, it's 6 months to get cleaned. 10 weeks would be a blessing.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> In my flyover part of the USA, it's 6 months to get cleaned. 10 weeks would be a blessing.


My old watchmaker usually takes longer to do a battery than a service on a Swiss auto... I think that's his way of rebelling against the quartz movement that almost put him out of business in the 80s. My normal turnaround time is about a week unless it needs significant parts.


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

I already placed my order but damn, y'all making me nervous about this brand


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> I already placed my order but damn, y'all making me nervous about this brand


I feel like you have nothing to fear but the actual company themselves. If you break it down to the fact that its a quirky retro with an off the shelf movement... anyone can service it. Don't be scared!


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> I already placed my order but damn, y'all making me nervous about this brand


Keep in mind, as with anything in life, the negatives usually are more vocal than the positives.


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

Well, I just pulled the trigger on the last 300t Divingstar on the strap. Guess that's what I get for being late to the party. I'm sure there will be lot's of people that will be willing to trade me their BOR for a bright yellow rubber strap...


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

STARSTELLA said:


> My old watchmaker usually takes longer to do a battery than a service on a Swiss auto... I think that's his way of rebelling against the quartz movement that almost put him out of business in the 80s. My normal turnaround time is about a week unless it needs significant parts.


I took my quartz Breitling to my AD for a battery change who sent it to Breitling... 4-5 weeks! Lmao

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

heineken4u said:


> I took my quartz Breitling to my AD for a battery change who sent it to Breitling... 4-5 weeks! Lmao
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


I feel like manufacturers need to ask more of a potential authorized dealer... the ability to perform basic services to customers and pressure test after the fact should be a requirement in the name of service. I understand watchmakers are less common these days but having the ability to write a check for inventory should not be the only qualifier attached to the dealer application.


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 said:


> Well, I just pulled the trigger on the last 300t Divingstar on the strap. Guess that's what I get for being late to the party. I'm sure there will be lot's of people that will be willing to trade me their BOR for a bright yellow rubber strap...


The strap is great and the BoRs do occasionally come up for sale. The Divingstar also works on quite a few colours and I wore my old Poseidon on leather a fair bit. It's quite a forgiving yellow.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Kirkawall said:


> The strap is great and the BoRs do occasionally come up for sale. The Divingstar also works on quite a few colours and I wore my old Poseidon on leather a fair bit. It's quite a forgiving yellow.


To that point, I might sell my BOR. The rubber aquamarine was a bit too much for me and ideally I'll wear my 300T on an isofrane anyway. The cost difference was so minimal it seemed like a no brainer to get the 300T on the bracelet over the rubber. I don't think I'm alone in this mindset.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> To that point, I might sell my BOR. The rubber aquamarine was a bit too much for me and ideally I'll wear my 300T on an isofrane anyway. The cost difference was so minimal it seemed like a no brainer to get the 300T on the bracelet over the rubber. I don't think I'm alone in this mindset.


As with any watch, always get the bracelet option if possible is my moto. You can always throw an aftermarket rubber on it, but you can't always throw an aftermarket bracelet on it. For the DS model I'd suggest a nice black strap with contrast yellow stitching, that will make dial really pop.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Monday mornings are usually pretty boring for me... lots of report running etc... FYI... Monday might NOT be the time to call JOMA.  I was going to take one for the team and confirm everything was shipping today/tomorrow assuming they got the delivery. I set my phone down on my desk with the speaker on at the 5 minute point...I haven't spoke to a human yet.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> Monday mornings are usually pretty boring for me... lots of report running etc... FYI... Monday might NOT be the time to call JOMA.  I was going to take one for the team and confirm everything was shipping today/tomorrow assuming they got the delivery. I set my phone down on my desk with the speaker on at the 5 minute point...I haven't spoke to a human yet.
> 
> View attachment 16527458



Wo over an hour wait and still no customer service. Yikes


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## els4 (Jan 27, 2013)

DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 said:


> Well, I just pulled the trigger on the last 300t Divingstar on the strap. Guess that's what I get for being late to the party. I'm sure there will be lot's of people that will be willing to trade me their BOR for a bright yellow rubber strap...


Try an Erikas if you don’t already have one. The yellow stripe matches perfectly on my divingstar.


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

STARSTELLA said:


> Monday mornings are usually pretty boring for me... lots of report running etc... FYI... Monday might NOT be the time to call JOMA.  I was going to take one for the team and confirm everything was shipping today/tomorrow assuming they got the delivery. I set my phone down on my desk with the speaker on at the 5 minute point...I haven't spoke to a human yet.
> 
> View attachment 16527458


Oh boy, keep us posted


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

STARSTELLA said:


> Monday mornings are usually pretty boring for me... lots of report running etc... FYI... Monday might NOT be the time to call JOMA.  I was going to take one for the team and confirm everything was shipping today/tomorrow assuming they got the delivery. I set my phone down on my desk with the speaker on at the 5 minute point...I haven't spoke to a human yet.
> 
> View attachment 16527458


Joma is ghosting you


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

els4 said:


> Try an Erikas if you don’t already have one. The yellow stripe matches perfectly on my divingstar.
> View attachment 16527546


Lovely combo. I do have an old Erika MN that's run out of stretch but your pix may have convinced me to invest in a new one...


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

STARSTELLA said:


> Monday mornings are usually pretty boring for me... lots of report running etc... FYI... Monday might NOT be the time to call JOMA.  I was going to take one for the team and confirm everything was shipping today/tomorrow assuming they got the delivery. I set my phone down on my desk with the speaker on at the 5 minute point...I haven't spoke to a human yet.
> 
> View attachment 16527458


Are they open? I know a lot of jewelry and consumer goods businesses in NYC are closed Saturdays and Mondays.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

bellbrass said:


> Are they open? I know a lot of jewelry and consumer goods businesses in NYC are closed Saturdays and Mondays.


Says Mon-Thursday 9:00-6:00 and Friday 9:00-3:00. I'm in the same timezone, so they were ope... as you might have guessed, I gave up.


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## skingwatch (Sep 14, 2009)

From Joma's website: 
*Customer Service*
*We are currently experiencing technical difficulties with our phone lines and chat. Please use the email form below and we will get back to you as soon as possible.*

I'm guessing this is why you can not get through. Either that or they are just too busy packaging up all the Doxas to fulfill orders!!


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Good idea to switch off the phones before canceling a couple hundred orders for WIS


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

STARSTELLA said:


> Says Mon-Thursday 9:00-6:00 and Friday 9:00-3:00. I'm in the same timezone, so they were ope... as you might have guessed, I gave up.


Wow...not promising.


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

Would I rather deal with Doxa...or Jomashop


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Joma site today says shipping in "1-3 days."
PayPal says my card has not yet been charged, still lists transaction as "Pending."


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Phone and Chat issues on the day they are supposed to start shipping Doxa's? Coincidence?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Your number probably flagged as someone who bought a Doxa and the CS rep went "nope, not answering that " 😀


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Your number probably flagged as someone who bought a Doxa and the CS rep went "nope, not answering that " 😀


I was worried I was black listed because I did rip into someone there years back pure incompetance... that being said... I blocked my number before calling hahahaha


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

Well it's almost 5 o'clock here on the East Coast so I'm assuming that's a no for today


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Well it's almost 5 o'clock here on the East Coast so I'm assuming that's a no for today


I would agree.


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## sglider (Nov 21, 2007)

You guys do realize the kind of volume Joma handles daily? The relative handful of Doxa's they've sold so far probably doesn't even register. No, they didn't take the phone off the hook because it's "Doxa day"


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

sglider said:


> You guys do realize the kind of volume Joma handles daily? The relative handful of Doxa's they've sold so far probably doesn't even register. No, they didn't take the phone off the hook because it's "Doxa day"


I disagree, they're probably shutting down their whole operation right now, hard drives are being destroyed, papers are being shredded, an FBI raid is coming, staff are jumping out windows, it's pure pandemonium over there on "Doxa Day".


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Turns out it was all just a marketing ploy to determine at what price folks in the US would actually buy new DOXAs at a rate that could keep the company’s sales going at something greater than the current trickle. 

“Thank you all for your participation. You will each be sent a coupon for a 5% discount on a color-matched rubber strap with your next DOXA purchase.” 
— DOXA Management


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

You read my mind. I was thinking exactly the same thing  



BigBluefish said:


> Turns out it was all just a marketing ploy to determine at what price folks in the US would actually buy new DOXAs at a rate that could keep the company’s sales going at something greater than the current trickle.
> 
> “Thank you all for your participation. You will each be sent a coupon for a 5% discount on a color-matched rubber strap with your next DOXA purchase.”
> — DOXA Management


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> To that point, I might sell my BOR. The rubber aquamarine was a bit too much for me and ideally I'll wear my 300T on an isofrane anyway. The cost difference was so minimal it seemed like a no brainer to get the 300T on the bracelet over the rubber. I don't think I'm alone in this mindset.


Let me know if you do, thanks.


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

BigBluefish said:


> Turns out it was all just a marketing ploy to determine at what price folks in the US would actually buy new DOXAs at a rate that could keep the company’s sales going at something greater than the current trickle.
> 
> “Thank you all for your participation. You will each be sent a coupon for a 5% discount on a color-matched rubber strap with your next DOXA purchase.”
> — DOXA Management


P.S. "Dear valued customer, the 5% discount on the color matched strap only applies to straps of the same color as the Doxa model purchased, no exceptions will be made."
-Doxa


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

I hope everything will be fine with this Joma opportunity. I guess it will be. 
But my god, this all feels like a real thriller/suspens Hollywood movie. How will I occupied my European mornings after all the deliveries will be achieved?!?
And this kind of Love and Hate relationship with Doxa is truly fascinating. An interesting psychological book could be write about this


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> You read my mind. I was thinking exactly the same thing


Yet, if it was just a big experiment and Doxa Usa normalized their pricing in reflection of this, I don't think I would risk buying from them again. IF WOS followed suite, I'd be in though


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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

All conjecture here, I wonder if they have the stock in hand or are waiting for delivery from the dealer. Perhaps they were told to expect it last week and are still waiting for it to arrive. Or it has arrived but they haven't inventoried everything yet. I would imagine each piece has to be inspected and verified to be in working order and as advertised by the dealer before JS can send it out the door. Not the same as buying from a manufacturer. 

Anyway, can't wait !!! 😃


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

BigBluefish said:


> Turns out it was all just a marketing ploy to determine at what price folks in the US would actually buy new DOXAs at a rate that could keep the company’s sales going at something greater than the current trickle.
> 
> “Thank you all for your participation. You will each be sent a coupon for a 5% discount on a color-matched rubber strap with your next DOXA purchase.”
> — DOXA Management


That 5% discount on a "tone-matched" strap seems a bit rich for this Doxa management team.

I'm thinking one of those DOXA SUB badges that my cat unravelled, or perhaps a "medallion" fashioned from the lid from one of those late, lamented SCUBA tube cases, with an official-looking bunch of numbers hastily pencilled in.

... but here's hoping these all arrive safe and well. Expecting everything is sorted one or way or t'other by the end of this week.


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

calling Jomas to change my shipping address and no answer since yesterday. Has anyone hear via email? Something is not right I am not buying that the phones are out.


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

…


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

ie_benitex said:


> calling Jomas to change my shipping address and no answer since yesterday. Has anyone hear via email? Something is not right I am not buying that the phones are out.


They discovered that in fact, the watches there were shipped weren't Doxas at all, but a secret stash of MoonSwatches. And they are trying to figure out whether they should let them go at Doxa prices or contact each of us with the message that they've had to increase the price of our order due to unexpected demand.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ie_benitex said:


> calling Jomas to change my shipping address and no answer since yesterday. Has anyone hear via email? Something is not right I am not buying that the phones are out.


Don't thinks something you need to buy... its fact. 

Phones and chat have been out since yesterday. I've received two emails from customers service. I realized that on my first order that I forgot to apply to added $50.00 coupon. I emailed them yesterday after sitting on hold for sometime prior to the abbouncement of the phones going down. Last night at about 8:00 EST I received a response saying no problem, they would apply to coupon code to my first order and thanking me for my patience. We exchanged some pleasantries and that was it.

Not entirely sure what you are implying that you aren't buying...lol... while the DOXA purchase is a big deal in this little pond, its likely to have little impact on their daily lives. I don't think they are afraid of us Doxa owners to a point that they shut off their phones and chat


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Maybe after grabbing all those APs in Moscow, Putin seized Joma's DOXAs too?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BigBluefish said:


> Maybe after grabbing all those APs in Moscow, Putin seized Joma's DOXAs too?


and poured some proper Russian vodka on the phone server as he walked out the door......


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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

crickets...


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

newhaven1410 said:


> crickets...


Yeah idk, I'll give it a few more days before cancelling


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Yeah idk, I'll give it a few more days before cancelling


I guess if they aren't running your card until it ships and we are now exactly 1 day past the original estimated ship date, is it really that hard to wait a few days for them to sort our whatever their problems are? For me, if its 2 more weeks, what's it really matter?


----------



## SenorPedro (Apr 18, 2013)

I have to say that the speculation around this is pretty entertaining! 

Given the previously mentioned March 28th date of receipt for Joma, I would expect is simply reflective of what they were told or possibly even tracking details from a vendor. Apply a 2-3 day tolerance on top of that for logistical issues that are plaguing all delivery services these days. Then give 1-3 days for receipt, inspection, entry into their inventory management system, etc. Finally, apply a handful of days for order processing and packaging before you receive a shipping confirmation. 

If I receive tracking numbers next Monday, I won't be surprised at all...


----------



## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

SenorPedro said:


> I have to say that the speculation around this is pretty entertaining!
> 
> Given the previously mentioned March 28th date of receipt for Joma, I would expect is simply reflective of what they were told or possibly even tracking details from a vendor. Apply a 2-3 day tolerance on top of that for logistical issues that are plaguing all delivery services these days. Then give 1-3 days for receipt, inspection, entry into their inventory management system, etc. Finally, apply a handful of days for order processing and packaging before you receive a shipping confirmation.
> 
> If I receive tracking numbers next Monday, I won't be surprised at all...


The way I read it was that the watches would be shipped, not received by that date... Hence why people are getting anxious. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

heineken4u said:


> The way I read it was that the watches would be shipped, not received by that date... Hence why people are getting anxious.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


IDK -- I kinda took the 1-3 days thing as standard text for when something is in stock, not as a service guarantee.

As noted above, you don't pay until it's in the shipping queue, so it's likely a short wait at best and at worst they never had the watch in stock anyway and you weren't charged for it and it was all a sad but glorious dream.

I'm expecting to get a shipping notification within the week, or thereabouts. As someone who was assured that I could absolutely, definitely expect my deposit-paid Silver Snoopy by first quarter 2021, waiting a few days on this Doxa is but the blink of an eye.


----------



## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

These days, I don’t put much stock in expected production, delivery, or ship dates. Heck, it’s a $1k watch at 25% off. I can wait. If it shows up in May, so long as they don’t charge my card ‘til it ships, I’m fine.


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

Kirkawall said:


> IDK -- I kinda took the 1-3 days thing as standard text for when something is in stock, not as a service guarantee.
> 
> As noted above, you don't pay until it's in the shipping queue, so it's likely a short wait at best and at worst they never had the watch in stock anyway and you weren't charged for it and it was all a sad but glorious dream.
> 
> I'm expecting to get a shipping notification within the week, or thereabouts. As someone who was assured that I could absolutely, definitely expect my deposit-paid Silver Snoopy by first quarter 2021, waiting a few days on this Doxa is but the blink of an eye.


Well said


----------



## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

heineken4u said:


> The way I read it was that the watches would be shipped, not received by that date... Hence why people are getting anxious.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


I can’t see where you could possibly get that interpretation from when it clearly states: ‘SHIPS IN 1 - 3 DAYS.’ 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Coming from someone who works for a large E-Commerce based business, I can tell you that rolling into day 3 without phones or chat is crippling to business. A quick search shows at minimum that Joma is a $50M company. the sale and shipment of our Doxas might be put on a back burner in the name of getting their systems operational. Depending on their systems, it might be impossible to even process a transaction or even ship anything. I need the shot of dopamine as much as the next guy, but I don't think anyone has the right to get their panties in a knot over shipping delays when they don't even have your money.


----------



## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

STARSTELLA said:


> Coming from someone who works for a large E-Commerce based business, I can tell you that rolling into day 3 without phones or chat is crippling to business. A quick search shows at minimum that Joma is a $50M company. the sale and shipment of our Doxas might be put on a back burner in the name of getting their systems operational. Depending on their systems, it might be impossible to even process a transaction or even ship anything. I need the shot of dopamine as much as the next guy, but I don't think anyone has the right to get their panties in a knot over shipping delays when they don't even have your money.


For starters, we don't know their communications are down. They could just be THAT terrible at CS

And let's be real, Doxa resale isn't amazing. That 300T that I paid ~$1450 from Joma can be found on the forums all day, for that or even less. It might be a few months old and have a hairline or two but my point is that this isn't some earth shattering deal here. I don't have my "panties in a knot" and I didn't cancel my order. But I don't appreciate radio silence and delay games that could take weeks


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Outside of the fact that the chat and phones don't work... and there's a big red message that says... our phones and chat are down? Thats true... its prolly tactics to deceive the consumer and trick them into buying more.  

Radio silence or legit tech failure... what exactly does Joma owe us? We agreed to purchase an item at an unheard of discount from new before its on their shelf. They did not charge us and if any one of us cancels our order, it will be back on the site and resold in no time. Every sale matters of course, but Joma is big enough that a small group of enthusiasts being upset that their watches are 36 hours late in shipping-based on the sales volume they do- can't rank all that high.


----------



## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

I just got an odd email from Joma...


----------



## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

Uh oh ... they don't know what the order statuses are?!


----------



## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

That’s a little worrying


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

jorgenl said:


> I just got an odd email from Joma...
> 
> View attachment 16531726


Thats a 3rd party customer satisfaction/survey company. Its not actually JOMA. Presumably credentials are set and automated emails are sent out based on estimated ship dates of orders and times in transit.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

jorgenl said:


> I just got an odd email from Joma...
> 
> View attachment 16531726


I got the same email on Monday the 28th.


----------



## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)




----------



## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

Probably means Joma is going to ship soon....maybe...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

jorgenl said:


> Probably means Joma is going to ship soon....maybe...


Honestly it probably means very little. It was likely generated based on the original preplanned ship date.


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## sglider (Nov 21, 2007)

Or the surveys are sent out based on a preset window from the original order date. Also, as a former Project Manager for a call center software company, trust me things are on fire over there! I would not want to be a fly on the wall right now. Phones and chat are down for the 3rd day in a row in a business this size? Somebody's probably getting fired.


----------



## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> Honestly it probably means very little. It was likely generated based on the original preplanned ship date.


Ya, these are usually auto generated based on your order. I've received these before actually receiving a watch in the past, (not Joma however as I've never ordered from them)


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

adg31 said:


> I can’t see where you could possibly get that interpretation from when it clearly states: ‘SHIPS IN 1 - 3 DAYS.’
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My bad, I thought a date was given. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

As we wait for updates, congratulations to those of you who were able to snag the rare and coveted Doxa Sub 300 / 300T "Tiffany" dial. Who knew?





__





Doxa Sub 300t SUB 300T | Ref. SUB 300T Watches on Chrono24


Find low prices for 10 Doxa ref. SUB 300T watches on Chrono24. Compare deals and buy a ref. SUB 300T watch.




www.chrono24.ca


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

sglider said:


> Or the surveys are sent out based on a preset window from the original order date. Also, as a former Project Manager for a call center software company, trust me things are on fire over there! I would not want to be a fly on the wall right now. Phones and chat are down for the 3rd day in a row in a business this size? Somebody's probably getting fired.


Last year a vendor that sells to my company and consumer direct had a cyber attack and their phones/emails were down for a week. The lost millions of dollars in sales. Couldn't take orders, couldn't even ship the orders that were processed the last day before the attack.

Maybe Doxa put a cyber "hit" out on Joma for selling these watches against their wishes


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

Many eBay sellers are Jomashop shadows. An order I have with one of these sellers, non Doxa, has given me feedback but has not shipped the product or responded to multiple emails from me. This has been four days ago. You thought Doxa CS was dodgy, my experience with Jomashop had to be the worst CS in over 20yrs of Watch collecting.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

STARSTELLA said:


> Last year a vendor that sells to my company and consumer direct had a cyber attack and their phones/emails were down for a week. The lost millions of dollars in sales. Couldn't take orders, couldn't even ship the orders that were processed the last day before the attack.
> 
> Maybe Doxa put a cyber "hit" out on Joma for selling these watches against their wishes


Curses upon the infamous Ernst Stavro Edocsfeld and his World Wide Web of evil - if only there was an orange dialled Doxa wearing hero who could save so many innocent people from his villainous plan!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sglider (Nov 21, 2007)

adg31 said:


> Curses upon the infamous Ernst Stavro Edocsfeld and his World Wide Web of evil - if only there was an orange dialled Doxa wearing hero who could save so many innocent people from his villainous plan!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sitting here with my Sub 300T professional on, I'd love to help but I've got a dentist appointment this afternoon. Guess we'll have to call Dirk...


----------



## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

Just received this email from Jomashop, this is a reply to an email I sent this morning:


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

All the orders can't be on back order....can they? Maybe they haven't got the watches yet.

EDIT: just checked their site and they still show 31 models for sale. Shipping in 1 to 3 days



oystertrader said:


> Just received this email from Jomashop, this is a reply to an email I sent this morning:
> View attachment 16532384


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> All the orders can't be on back order....can they? Maybe they haven't got the watches yet.
> 
> EDIT: just checked their site and they still show 31 models for sale. Shipping in 1 to 3 days


Isn't that like shorting stock? Selling stock you don't actually own? Maybe Joma is hoping the distributor will drop price again, and they'll cash in.


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

Flyingdoctor said:


> All the orders can't be on back order....can they? Maybe they haven't got the watches yet.
> 
> EDIT: just checked their site and they still show 31 models for sale. Shipping in 1 to 3 days


Seems like they are still waiting for the watches to come in. Hopefully this “2-3 days” is true.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Like most people here, I'd love to know where they were coming from. Which AD did a fire sale to Joma. I find it hard to believe that Jan and the Doxa gang don't know exactly who and how many etc, etc. I started this thread on February 24, well over a month ago. Just how long does it take Joma to buy and have the watches shipped form wherever they are? Yes, there will be some inventory checking and housekeeping to assure they got what they paid for and all in sound working condition, but 5 weeks and still no shipping notices. 

I don't have any skin in the game here. I never bought one but I sure want to see someone post here with a shipping notice.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

Perhaps they had an agreement with the original AD stating that if and only if they could obtain X amount of pre-orders, then they would purchase those units from the AD... and they haven't reached X amount of pre-orders yet.  What a **** show. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I'm hanging on to the idea that if the phones and chat systems are down that they might not even be able to process the orders. if I login to my account I can't view my order. Something systematically is broken on the back end causing issues. Who knows how their systems are tied together. 

Alas, if it never happens, I've not been out a penny along the way.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)




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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

When has Joma not fulfilled an order?


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

STARSTELLA said:


> Coming from someone who works for a large E-Commerce based business, I can tell you that rolling into day 3 without phones or chat is crippling to business. A quick search shows at minimum that Joma is a $50M company. the sale and shipment of our Doxas might be put on a back burner in the name of getting their systems operational. Depending on their systems, it might be impossible to even process a transaction or even ship anything. I need the shot of dopamine as much as the next guy, but I don't think anyone has the right to get their panties in a knot over shipping delays when they don't even have your money.


Sounds like TPG


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

STARSTELLA said:


> Last year a vendor that sells to my company and consumer direct had a cyber attack and their phones/emails were down for a week. The lost millions of dollars in sales. Couldn't take orders, couldn't even ship the orders that were processed the last day before the attack.
> 
> Maybe Doxa put a cyber "hit" out on Joma for selling these watches against their wishes


Well, given the Jenny's business interests in China, is it beyond the realm of possibility?


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Where does Jomashop ship their packages from--what is the origin?


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

drmdwebb said:


> Where does Jomashop ship their packages from--what is the origin?


They ship out of the New York City area, I think their warehouse is in Brooklyn.


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## wellman70 (Dec 27, 2015)

OK

So long time lurker on this site. Recently placed an order for a Sharkhunter and like all of you been watching this thread for any updates.

Finally just got thru to Jomashop on the phone somehow! 

They have my order details, says its not in stock and ordered from another warehouse. Its due in tommorrow and said shipping and tracking information will be sent early next week. 

Just though you all would want to know! I sure did! 

Good luck on your orders as well!


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

wellman70 said:


> OK
> 
> So long time lurker on this site. Recently placed an order for a Sharkhunter and like all of you been watching this thread for any updates.
> 
> ...


I got a Sharkhunter as well. Thanks for the good news!


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

wellman70 said:


> OK
> 
> So long time lurker on this site. Recently placed an order for a Sharkhunter and like all of you been watching this thread for any updates.
> 
> ...


Nice try Jomashop 🧐


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

I think I'm officially in "I'll believe it when I unbox it" mode.


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

Got this reply a minute ago from JOMO


----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Bianchi <[email protected]>
Date: 3/29/2022 8:12:59 PM
To: Jomashop <[email protected]>
Subject: Order # Mxxxxxxx



We are now past the expected shipping date of my order.



DO you have an update?



Jim Bianchi

702-219-5838



Hello,



We sincerely apologize for the delay in processing your order. We are diligently working with our vendor to get an eta. Unfortunately, we do not have an update at this time, but as soon as more information becomes available we will contact you.

Please feel free to contact us should you need any further assistance.








*Jennie*
Customer Service
(877) 834-1434
Jomashop.com


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Oh, starting to get interesting with that response.........



JimBianchi said:


> Got this reply a minute ago from JOMO
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> ...


----------



## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

JimBianchi said:


> Got this reply a minute ago from JOMO
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> ...


and yesterday they told me 2-3 days


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

So people here were speculating that they're just taking a few days to inspect the watches and package them yada yada yada. When in reality they have no idea when they're even getting them in


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Yep, just like selling short in the market. Joma is selling stock that they physically do not have. The bad part is that their supplier isn't giving them an ETA on their shipment so who knows what will happen. I sincerely hope the guys that ordered get their watches because this was a nice deal that I doubt comes around very often.


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

Watchout63 said:


> Yep, just like selling short in the market. Joma is selling stock that they physically do not have. The bad part is that their supplier isn't giving them an ETA on their shipment so who knows what will happen. I sincerely hope the guys that ordered get their watches because this was a nice deal that I doubt comes around very often.


Or Doxa themselves have stepped in and put a stop to the deal 😮


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Yup. I'm afraid I'm thinking now this isn't going to happen. Not like it cost me anything, so no big deal. May have put me off buying a 300T or 600T at all, though, even if it is all Joma's fault. Was really hoping to test the waters with this Sub 200. We'll see.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Seikonut1967 said:


> Or Doxa themselves have stepped in and put a stop to the deal 😮


I think that’s a possibility, maybe: 

1.) AD has extra stock they want to clear. 
2.) AD contacts Joma, expresses willingness to sell them the extra stock. 
3.) Joma says yes, lists the watches on their site with the notion that they’ll get the stock from the AD. 
4.) Doxa gets wind, sends notice to every AD that they have an order in with Joma and will be able to identity which AD is doing this by looking at the serial number. 
5.) AD backs out.


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

It's time to send in the freedom convey to Jomashop in NYC.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> I think that’s a possibility, maybe:
> 
> 1.) AD has extra stock they want to clear.
> 2.) AD contacts Joma, expresses willingness to sell them the extra stock.
> ...


Well, I think it's entirely possible that the deal fell through, but I'm sure the AD would have known that DOXA would have caught wind of the deal and that the watches would have been traceable, that's the whole point of serial numbers. Deal could have gone south for any number of reasons. 

But, your guess is as good as mine.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

Doxa HQ must love this thread right about now.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

Watchout63 said:


> Yep, just like selling short in the market. Joma is selling stock that they physically do not have. The bad part is that their supplier isn't giving them an ETA on their shipment so who knows what will happen. I sincerely hope the guys that ordered get their watches because this was a nice deal that I doubt comes around very often.


It's not like selling short in the market. Lol. What you mean is it's like the options market and even still, it's not comparable. 


Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## SenorPedro (Apr 18, 2013)

A bunch of SKUs that were previously sold-out just showed up on Joma... Sub300 sharkhunter and searambler on bracelet, 300T sharkhunter... Folk's cancellations must be coming in!


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

heineken4u said:


> It's not like selling short in the market. Lol. What you mean is it's like the options market and even still, it's not comparable.


Maybe it's time that we give them a margin call ...


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

Seikonut1967 said:


> Or Doxa themselves have stepped in and put a stop to the deal 😮


I'm not sure Doxa would do that. Rolex can and does, but they have full-time staff dedicated to "brand protection". But Doxa is a small company, relatively speaking, and I doubt they have that kind of muscle.
My guess is that they had a verbal agreement with someone that they could get stock, and now cannot. The next thing I expect is a notice from Doxa that they can't but fufill my order, but here's a coupon in case I want something else that's in stock....or, more likely, nothing at all from them.


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## Kirkawall (Mar 28, 2015)

Well, after noticing that my CC has nothing pending from Joma despite my order a week ago, confirmed via PayPal receipt and by email from Jomashop themselves, I did send an enquiry in via email so we'll see. I suspect that my order either wasn't logged or that the watch had already been allocated, but either way looks like I missed out on this one. Good luck to those of you still in the hunt, hope it all goes smoothly and that you receive the watch you ordered in good nick and a reasonably timely fashion. 

I'll sit back in my Doxa rocker and await the anyday someday arrival of the Military.


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

SenorPedro said:


> A bunch of SKUs that were previously sold-out just showed up on Joma... Sub300 sharkhunter and searambler on bracelet, 300T sharkhunter... Folk's cancellations must be coming in!


Now if someone would pretty please cancel their 300T Aquamarine, that would be neat


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)




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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Now if someone would pretty please cancel their 300T Aquamarine, that would be neat


Sorry I couldn't help, but I did just cancel an order for a carbon sub 300.


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Now if someone would pretty please cancel their 300T Aquamarine, that would be neat


And someone needs to cancel any 300T on the BOR. (Except the searambler)


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Well... still haven't charged my card... I never planned to give Doxa another chance after the mess last year and only this potential discount tempted me... if I never see it and my card is never charged, The way I see it, I met you gents and I've lost nothing.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

The Joma inventory system is pretty fast acting. There were 31 models yesterday. This afternoon it jumped to 35 with the 300 Searambler on bracelet showing again. Now down to 33 with the rambler on bracelet gone. Looks like any cancellations are added back into the system right away.

You have to think that Joma believes they will get the watches because if not why would they keep the sales page updated and live? It looks like they aren't charging so they are not holding people's money.

Wonder when the Whitepearl will show on the site


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> The Joma inventory system is pretty fast acting. There were 31 models yesterday. This afternoon it jumped to 35 with the 300 Searambler on bracelet showing again. Now down to 33 with the rambler on bracelet gone. Looks like any cancellations are added back into the system right away.
> 
> You have to think that Joma believes they will get the watches because if not why would they keep the sales page updated and live? It looks like they aren't charging so they are not holding people's money.
> 
> Wonder when the Whitepearl will show on the site


I kinda want the 600 WP with the ceramic bezel. Plus I can convince the wife that "we can both wear it".... and she never will


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I don't need to convince my wife that we can both wear a watch. She just says...can you resize the bracelet to see how it looks on my wrist?....and pppffffttt just like that, it was gone 



STARSTELLA said:


> I kinda want the 600 WP with the ceramic bezel. Plus I can convince the wife that "we can both wear it".... and she never will


----------



## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I don't need to convince my wife that we can both wear a watch. She just says...can you resize the bracelet to see how it looks on my wrist?....and pppffffttt just like that, it was gone


Doc,
Maybe this time you could offer a whitepearl to your wife, and, this time, be the one that will borrow its Sub (just to see how it looks on your wrist)


----------



## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

What a circus no phone for 5 days? The 2022 aquastar looks even more tempting.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm not a fan of white dials, with one magnificent exception..... the gold standard for me... the Seiko 6138 Panda, which I happen to be wearing today.

The new Doxas are nice but no comparison with this vintage classic 












JIFB said:


> Doc,
> Maybe this time you could offer a whitepearl to your wife, and, this time, be the one that will borrow its Sub (just to see how it looks on your wrist)


----------



## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

Finally got through to someone. I'm sure she gave me a generic response but she claims the watches are in stock and being scanned in currently and that I should expect a tracking email in the next 1-2 business days as they go through and process and get them ready for shipping. Of course it being a Friday we wait yet another week..... 

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


----------



## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> The Joma inventory system is pretty fast acting. There were 31 models yesterday. This afternoon it jumped to 35 with the 300 Searambler on bracelet showing again. Now down to 33 with the rambler on bracelet gone. Looks like any cancellations are added back into the system right away.
> 
> You have to think that Joma believes they will get the watches because if not why would they keep the sales page updated and live? It looks like they aren't charging so they are not holding people's money.
> 
> Wonder when the Whitepearl will show on the site


You would think - I’ve been considering a Sub 300 Searambler for several years. They had one on rubber listed last night so I added it to my cart and checked out. It is now no longer listed on the site. Availability said 1-3 days. I’ve had good lcut with Jomashop on two other watch purchases, one of which I had to wait several weeks for. I’m willing to give them a chance on this. If it doesn’t work out I won’t be heartbroken though.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

rhaykal said:


> Finally got through to someone. I'm sure she gave me a generic response but she claims the watches are in stock and being scanned in currently and that I should expect a tracking email in the next 1-2 business days as they go through and process and get them ready for shipping. Of course it being a Friday we wait yet another week.....
> 
> Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


I'm still blaming you for this Rani  (Kevin Butler)


----------



## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

STARSTELLA said:


> I'm still blaming you for this Rani  (Kevin Butler)


I'm good with that! 

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

And I was just told over the phone. That they have not received them yet.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

ie_benitex said:


> And I was just told over the phone. That they have not received them yet.


Did you ask where they are coming from?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I feel like those of us who are patient will eventually get watches out of this but it will go down in history as "Doxa-Gate" or Joma Gate.... or?


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> I feel like those of us who are patient will eventually get watches out of this but it will go down in history as "Doxa-Gate" or Joma Gate.... or?


Or..... "I should of just bought from Doxa-gate". 😅


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

For those with patience, 300t Sharkhunter and Searambler are back up on their site


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Ticktocker said:


> Or..... "I should of just bought from Doxa-gate".


I don’t think anyone is that desperate yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

Is not about not being patient, after all we have not been charge so is not like Jomas is out there with our $$. Honestly my main concern is about them not answering the phone, an online business that has no phones service for over a week does not inspire much confidence on my part.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

ie_benitex said:


> Is not about not being patient, after all we have not been charge so is not like Jomas is out there with our $$. Honestly my main concern is about them not answering the phone, an online business that has no phones service for over a week does not inspire much confidence on my part.


Ya, that sounds fishy AF as the kids say


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

ie_benitex said:


> Is not about not being patient, after all we have not been charge so is not like Jomas is out there with our $$. Honestly my main concern is about them not answering the phone, an online business that has no phones service for over a week does not inspire much confidence on my part.


To me, having a working phone that gets answered and a physical address is paramount when it comes to trusting an online retailer. If neither of those work, I start to wonder. 
I've purchased from Joma and haven't had any horrible problems. The problem that comes to mind is what's happening now except when I ordered a watch from them it said "in stock" and it wasn't. It took them a few weeks to come up with my order. 
My point is that they are not on time with their deliveries 100% of the time. I have no idea what the problem is with their phones but I can't imagine them screwing a bunch of people by not ever delivering. But then again..........?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ie_benitex said:


> Is not about not being patient, after all we have not been charge so is not like Jomas is out there with our $$. Honestly my main concern is about them not answering the phone, an online business that has no phones service for over a week does not inspire much confidence on my part.


Well it must be a question for many since orders are getting cancelled and of the original 54 SKUs that were there at the end of February we are back up to 34 as of a little while ago. The middle of the week there were no 300T at all. Again, I've seen it happen. Cyber attack or just epic systems failure.. It happens. Something that popped into my mind is that their credit card processing might be tied to a land line or whatever the phone system is and they might not actually have the ability to process a credit card until its fixed. who knows. I'm kinda enjoying the ride myself


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Similar situation. I've order off AliExpress a few times, but never received this message on my Order









This tells me, they don't have the watch in stock and not sure if they will get it or not. So the order will cancel itself and issue a credit automatically at expiration of the 10 days.
If I'm correct, then AE has items for sale that are not necessarily in stock either.


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

ie_benitex said:


> Is not about not being patient, after all we have not been charge so is not like Jomas is out there with our $$. Honestly my main concern is about them not answering the phone, an online business that has no phones service for over a week does not inspire much confidence on my part.


I will say, before about 3 weeks ago I never had issues with Jomashop and phone calls. Any time I called I was on the line with a person within about 5-10 minutes which isn't outrageous. Im still optimistic my order will show up....and like others have mentioned, no money has been taken yet so I'm not out anything but time waiting....


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

BobMartian said:


>


This is me; I cancelled my order and then found a WUSer selling something similar that I wanted. So Jomashop lost out because they were too slow and didn't send on time per their original estimate.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Assuming Joma come through, the first post we see saying I got my shipping notice, deserves a keg party and fireworks


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Assuming Joma come through, the first post we see saying I got my shipping notice, deserves a keg party and fireworks


I'll provide the Heineken 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Assuming Joma come through, the first post we see saying I got my shipping notice, deserves a keg party and fireworks


Come on tracking!!!!! 

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

Looks like they took the Doxas off Jomashop


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

Looks like it's over.


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

It looks like Doxa put an end to it, at least now they know what the market is willing to pay. Although a limited edition T. Graph that is still available after 3 years should have been a clear indicator, wonder if they will ever sell all the carbon limited edition at that price?

I am confident we will see them back with a gray market dealer once a recession hits.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

With a whimper, not a bang, thus endeth this mockery of a sham of a travesty.

Though it’s been worth the ride, just for this thread.



On the other hand … yesterday was the last day? Heck of an April Fool’s gag, DOXA. If so, I don’t imagine this is going to make you any friends here.


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

Well, if you guys at Doxa HQ are reading this, I'm buying from the sales forum anyway. And also...🤬🤬🤬


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

Just checked my CC, no mention of the transaction. So an _curse word_ to Jomashop as well for quietly sweeping it under the rug and not even having the decency to say anything


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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

Well WTF.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Maybe we can get Tactical Frog to do a group buy Joma / DOXA protest sub.

I’ll entertain design submissions.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Well this certainly sucks azz. All this thread needs now is for the Doxa Forum Rep to come in with more promotions.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Sometimes I think they were just taking sales on spec before approaching a retailer/Doxa with a bulk order hoping to negotiate a BIG discount ... but then they seemed to have had specific amounts of each model for sale so that would seem like they had a deal in the making somewhere. Strange if they had sourced these amounts before putting them on their website that they had to wait so long for them to arrive.... if they were in stock somewhere with another retailer then they could have been packaged and with Joma in a few days. Could be of course that the agreement was to take only what they could sell up to a cut off date.
If Doxa did track the retailer and put a stop to it, it does make you wonder what they had to offer that retailer - seeing as how they were willing to offload their stock in the first place (presumably they weren't selling before they felt the need to do it) so Doxa threatening to cut them off shouldn't have been a major problem ..... unless there was a clause somewhere that they couldn't sell them off in such a way.
All ifs and buts - some things are always too good to be true. A shame for those who have been let down. Will Doxa look at the demand and lower prices accordingly? Can't see it... if they don't recognise that the Tgraphs/Carbons/Cgraphs aren't selling and haven't done anything about it by now (and in the case of the Tgraphs and Carbons that would take more than just a few hundred pounds/dollars/euros off) then I doubt they will.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Well... Doxa got involved or Joma screwed the pooch... I suppose its destiny. I should NEVER own a Doxa. Thats twice I've had a less than appealing experience around trying to buy a 300T. I don't know if its worth the "3rd times a charm theory" If I do go down that path it will NOT be from Doxa directly.

The only hope I have... we're talking .25% chance of optimistic hope that Joma got a final count, they over sold, pulled all of Doxa off the site and are filling the orders they got really early on. I ordered mine right after the post started and as of now when I login, my order has not been cancelled. (pretty unrealistic, I know)


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

STARSTELLA said:


> Well... Doxa got involved or Joma screwed the pooch... I suppose its destiny. I should NEVER own a Doxa. Thats twice I've had a less than appealing experience around trying to buy a 300T. I don't know if its worth the "3rd times a charm theory" If I do go down that path it will NOT be from Doxa directly.
> 
> The only hope I have... we're talking .25% chance of optimistic hope that Joma got a final count, they over sold, pulled all of Doxa off the site and are filling the orders they got really early on. I ordered mine right after the post started and as of now when I login, my order has not been cancelled. (pretty unrealistic, I know)


Have you checked your CC account? My card no longer shows the transaction, not even a peep from Joma


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## BSwed (Jul 14, 2021)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Have you checked your CC account? My card no longer shows the transaction, not even a peep from Joma


Couldn't it just be that they can't have the reservation on the card indefinitely and it expires after a while? And maybe it will be renewed again. I wouldn't give up hope entirely.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

We'll never know what actually happened. The whole phone thing, the lack of communication, now the disappearance of Doxa on Joma...... it all starts to smell like it's a bit darker than "grey market". Maybe they're a day late with April fools. Who knows......


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Have you checked your CC account? My card no longer shows the transaction, not even a peep from Joma


Mine was kind of weird... and maybe someone else how used American Express can chime in... Initially the full charge was on my card for a short period, then it went pending (I didn't owe a payment against it but it was impacted against my limit) and then in the middle of March at some point if was just gone all together. I paid it off and my balance showed a -1498.00. 

long story there to say... little hope there too. 

I did just put a WTB posting up for a last ditch 3rd times a charm kinda Hail Mary


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

BSwed said:


> Couldn't it just be that they can't have the reservation on the card indefinitely and it expires after a while? And maybe it will be renewed again. I wouldn't give up hope entirely.


I mean anything is possible but I did check a few days ago and it was pending. Then I woke up, checked this thread, then checked my account and it was gone. So it would be a hell of a coincidence


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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

My order is still listed as "awaiting shipment".


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## Awesom-O 4000 (Sep 20, 2018)

oystertrader said:


> Looks like they took the Doxas off Jomashop


Joma was like, these crazy people keep calling about their Doxas. It's just not worth it. I don't want to hear the word Doxa ever again! Take them all down!


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Considering how Joma seem to be selling a bunch of higher end watches, AP, Rolex, Breitling etc, I think it is a bit of a stretch to think Doxa has the clout to force them to stop selling SUBs. Did an AD buy a ton of Doxas then fire sale them to Joma and Doxa not know but have secret tracking etc etc as they claim. I doubt that too. I doubt that Jan and the gang have no idea about what happens their stock.

The whole thing with Joma is a really interesting story which I doubt we will ever know the details of.

Good thread, while it lasted


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

What it also seemed to show is the price sensitivity of the SUB. It sure looked like a bunch of watches were sold atvthe 1400 bucks range. It also looked like the Carbons, and Tgraph are still too expensive at 20% off (no real surprise there) and that Noone wants the crap graph.


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

Flyingdoctor said:


> What it also seemed to show is the price sensitivity of the SUB. It sure looked like a bunch of watches were sold atvthe 1400 bucks range. It also looked like the Carbons, and Tgraph are still too expensive at 20% off (no real surprise there) and that Noone wants the crap graph.


When a excellent condition 300 T on bracelet pops up on the forums, it's usually in the $1300-$1500 range and that's in line with the Jomashop deal. I think that's about the fair price for this watch.

I have a Mayors near me in Tampa that sells Doxa and despite having a history there they would not talk discounts whatsoever. Shame


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Maybe JS just pulled Doxa temporally because of shipping delays


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

I guess we'll see.....my order still shows "Awaiting Shipment". I sent them a msg if my order was still on track to be fulfilled in the next few business days as I was quoted that by one of their representatives on Friday. I also asked what happened to the remaining Doxas as I was planning to purchase another as they were supposedly shipping shortly.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> What it also seemed to show is the price sensitivity of the SUB. It sure looked like a bunch of watches were sold atvthe 1400 bucks range. It also looked like the Carbons, and Tgraph are still too expensive at 20% off (no real surprise there) and that Noone wants the crap graph.


I've always said it, while I love the style, the history and cult following of the brand, an almost $2000.00 watch with a base eta movement and a reputation for questionable customer support/service seems excessive when there's other brands capitalizing on the retro game and coming back into play sporting historic names long since forgotten with evenly spec'd watches and top notch service for under $1000.00.

I know the 200T has mixed feedback, but what makes the 300T a $700.00 better watch?

I've had fantastic service from both LeJour and Nivada and taking a slight step upwards in price versus the 300T, my experience with ZRC has been fantastic as well.

I think the rate a which 300T sold out for Joma says a lot but it also needs to be taken into consideration that some of them might have been bough purely on the perceived discount as well. Just my $.02

I wonder when the fat lady will sing on Joma-Gate?


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

I feel like I have missed something -- has Joma cancelled all these sales?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

valerian839 said:


> I feel like I have missed something -- has Joma cancelled all these sales?


Its a pretty solid presumption. All Doxa is off the site, watches that were promised to ship 6 days ago have not and either radio silence from Joma all week with the exception of some sketchy unparalleled responses from those who were able to get a human on the phone. Its not looking optimistic.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

BigBluefish said:


> With a whimper, not a bang, thus endeth this mockery of a sham of a travesty.
> 
> Though it’s been worth the ride, just for this thread.
> 
> ...


How in the minuscule of ideas is Doxa at fault? Please explain.

I said Jomashop was the worst CS in over my 20yrs of dive watch ownership.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Crazy Cajun said:


> How in the minuscule of ideas is Doxa at fault? Please explain.
> 
> I said Jomashop was the worst CS in over my 20yrs of dive watch ownership.


As Doc mentioned, we'll never know the full scope of this train wreck. My guess is that, knowing there are minimal numbers of Doxa resellers, especially those who would have had all these SKUs on the shelf and would view them as overstock, Doxa was able to figure out who was offering them to Joma and put some sort of squeeze on them.. ie.. violation of dealer agreement etc. 

Was it Doxa's right to do so? Sure, but I have to imagine that said reseller attempted to send the overstock watches back to Doxa and was turned down before offering them at what must have been below cost to Joma for Joma to turn around and resell them for the discount that they did.

Somewhere along the way Doxa, the reseller and Joma are all to blame.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Yea I'd guess Doxa saw this a ****fest for them and took the stock back



STARSTELLA said:


> As Doc mentioned, we'll never know the full scope of this train wreck. My guess is that, knowing there are minimal numbers of Doxa resellers, especially those who would have had all these SKUs on the shelf and would view them as overstock, Doxa was able to figure out who was offering them to Joma and put some sort of squeeze on them.. ie.. violation of dealer agreement etc.
> 
> Was it Doxa's right to do so? Sure, but I have to imagine that said reseller attempted to send the overstock watches back to Doxa and was turned down before offering them at what must have been below cost to Joma for Joma to turn around and resell them for the discount that they did.
> 
> Somewhere along the way Doxa, the reseller and Joma are all to blame.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

If this is a retailer trying to unload overstock what would be worse? Burning JS or a manufacturer whose product you can’t sell?


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

I think Jomashop and Doxa colluded for the ultimate April fools prank on a very niche group, I'm impressed.


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

BobMartian said:


> If this is a retailer trying to unload overstock what would be worse? Burning JS or a manufacturer whose product you can’t sell?


Well, to be honest I don't think that any retailer would have almost the all Doxa lineup in stock (and resell it to Joma). Well, at least it would be very surprising. So, there must be something else behind this intriguing Joma sale story...


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

I'm thinking that Doxa's nose was pushed out of joint purely for the fact of Jomasop pricing. Had these been offered for a few hundred dollars more, my guess is the orders would have been honoured. 
Must be soul destroying for Doxa to see their products being offered at cut price just as they were about to launch the whitewash pearl range.


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## NS1 (May 12, 2015)

JIFB said:


> Well, to be honest I don't think that any retailer would have almost the all Doxa lineup in stock (and resell it to Joma). Well, at least it would be very surprising. So, there must be something else behind this intriguing Joma sale story...


That's my thought as well. What AD is sitting around with 70 different variations of a Doxa sub or 200 and, if more than one was available of each, hundreds of Doxa watches sitting around as overstock or unsold goods? That is an insane amount of inventory for someone to have sitting around unsold.


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

JIFB said:


> Well, to be honest I don't think that any retailer would have almost the all Doxa lineup in stock (and resell it to Joma). Well, at least it would be very surprising. So, there must be something else behind this intriguing Joma sale story...


MAYORS in Tampa has them all in stock including all limited editions.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

I expect we’ll see cancellation notifications start going out on Monday then. I requested to cancel a 300 Searambler on rubber in favor of a Sharkhunter on bracelet that came back on the site yesterday that I also ordered but haven’t heard back on that request yet. Both orders still show as pending as do the charges on on my credit card. 


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

It was interesting that JS described their Doxa with ETA


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

BobMartian said:


> It was interesting that JS described their Doxa with ETA


Most likely that was Estimated Time of Arrival...!


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

I don't want to rub salt in any wounds here. But given the shenanigans that were going on, I decided to cancel my order a couple of days ago. And then, out of the blue, @WatchScene put this up for sale Thursday, which I snagged almost right away, and it came today. I couldn't be happier with it--it wan't on the JS site, but is still available at Doxa for a healthy premium over the normal carbon pricing. Since I picked this up, I'll be putting my Doxa Sub Carbon (Professional) up for sale shortly.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

drmdwebb said:


> I don't want to rub salt in any wounds here. But given the shenanigans that were going on, I decided to cancel my order a couple of days ago. And then, out of the blue, @WatchScene put this up for sale Thursday, which I snagged almost right away, and it came today. I couldn't be happier with it--it wan't on the JS site, but is still available at Doxa for a healthy premium over the normal carbon pricing. Since I picked this up, I'll be putting my Doxa Sub Carbon (Professional) up for sale shortly.
> 
> View attachment 16539042


Actually is it was on Jomashop yesterday for $3850 I think. 


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

ean10775 said:


> Actually is it was on Jomashop yesterday for $3850 I think.


Oh, missed that. In any case, I feel bad for the people who tried to pick one up (whichever model) from JS. I hope it's clear to Doxa that there is a healthy demand for their products out there, but if their sales are lagging from what they would like, they should consider reducing their prices. I want the white dial carbon, but I'm not willing to pay full retail, so I'll wait until somebody in the watch world gets one, tires of it, and puts it up for sale. 

Hopefully this thread is evidence to Doxa that they should lower some of their prices. The 200 seems to be priced about right, but some of the others are too high.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> As Doc mentioned, we'll never know the full scope of this train wreck. My guess is that, knowing there are minimal numbers of Doxa resellers, especially those who would have had all these SKUs on the shelf and would view them as overstock, Doxa was able to figure out who was offering them to Joma and put some sort of squeeze on them.. ie.. violation of dealer agreement etc.
> 
> Was it Doxa's right to do so? Sure, but I have to imagine that said reseller attempted to send the overstock watches back to Doxa and was turned down before offering them at what must have been below cost to Joma for Joma to turn around and resell them for the discount that they did.
> 
> Somewhere along the way Doxa, the reseller and Joma are all to blame.


This isn’t even conjecture anymore. Just plain fiction…


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> This isn’t even conjecture anymore. Just plain fiction…


Please enlighten us on your take....since my educated and experienced take isn't "conjecture"


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

paysdoufs said:


> This isn’t even conjecture anymore. Just plain fiction…


Do you mean non-fiction, as in real or true to life? Or do you really mean that @Flyingdoctor 's analysis is completely wrong?


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

I mean that I simply don’t know - like presumably everyone else here (less they are u-boats from Jomashop)…

So what’s the point of speculating (or even taking “mean Doxa” for responsible, as some already do)? This is clearly not the first time that Jomashop has not been able to honor customers’ orders since overpromising re. availability is apparently a part of their business model 🤷‍♂️


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## lanjim (Nov 23, 2015)

lanjim said:


> I've tried to order two watches from them with their multi week lead time. Neither ever materialized. Joma is great if it's in stock or less than a week lead time. Anything outside of that has been a pipedream from me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-F711U1 using Tapatalk


Hmm... 

Sent from my SM-F711U1 using Tapatalk


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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

paysdoufs said:


> This is clearly not the first time that Jomashop has not been able to honor customer commands since overpromising re. availability is apparently a part of their business model


Kept thinking this same thing… 

The only brand on WUS with a worst customer service record than Doxa is JOMA 


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

paysdoufs said:


> I mean that I simply don’t know - like presumably everyone else here (less they are u-boats from Jomashop)…
> 
> So what’s the point of speculating (or even taking “mean Doxa” for responsible, as some already do)? This is clearly not the first time that Jomashop has not been able to honor customer commands since overpromising re. availability is apparently a part of their business model


I sort of take your point - except for Doxa jumping into the thread making dark threats about the Joma offer. In doing so, rightly or wrongly, they have managed to position themselves as the villain of the piece likely behind the inability of Joma to fulfil the orders of people here.
A brilliant bit of social media management… 


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

martin_blank said:


> …
> 
> The only brand on WUS with a worst customer service record than Doxa is JOMA
> 
> ...




Yema be like 


_PS: I do want a Navygraph Marine Nationale. Great looking watch. _


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

martin_blank said:


> Kept thinking this same thing…
> 
> The only brand on WUS with a worst customer service record than Doxa is JOMA
> 
> ...


I guess to me, nobody should be surprised when Joma screws up. If you are paying a premium price for a luxury item, you expect a perfect sales experience from beginning to the end of the warranty. Doxa has a hard time with this.. right?

With Joma, you save 30% in this case... you have to expect something has to be sacrificed. They don't manufacture the products you are buying at a discounted price, so..... service is the scapegoat here. 

...also... of the 5 Yema watches I've bought, I've had zero issues outside of a delayed shipment during blackfriday.


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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

I guess it just don’t get the not worth it at all full price, yes worth it, no matter the other bs, for minus 500 dollars…

But to each their own 


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## Kashoggi (Jan 13, 2018)

When will your watches arrive? 
Or have the orders been offically canceled?


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

Just received an email from them today saying they are still diligently working with the vendor to get an eta on the order. I don’t know if this is going to happen.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

PayPal no longer lists my transaction for the 200 Searambler as "Pending." Joma took down their DOXA listings and "POOF!" it was gone. I'll take that to mean we are done here.


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

Mine is still pending, I’m trying to get in touch with them now to see why it is.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

You really have to wonder just what the story is here. Let's assume for a minute it was legit and an AD was going to supply Joma but then it went south because Doxa took the stock back. 

How hard is it to go into the orders and just cancel all orders and send a blanket email saying, sorry chaps, watches no longer available.

I so much want to know the real story behind this 😀


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## oystertrader (Jan 9, 2022)

I just spoke to Jomashop on the phone. The watches have been added back to the website as she said they became "temporarily unavailable" whatever that means. I asked her about a timeframe for when they are going to come in and if they will actually come in, and she told me: "right now, it is looking like 3-4 weeks, but it could be even longer". I decided to cancel my order right there. I couldn't get any info about the vendor or the story with the watches.

It looks like Joma-gate is officially over for me. For those still waiting I wish you the best.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> You really have to wonder just what the story is here. Let's assume for a minute it was legit and an AD was going to supply Joma but then it went south because Doxa took the stock back.
> 
> How hard is it to go into the orders and just cancel all orders and send a blanket email saying, sorry chaps, watches no longer available.
> 
> I so much want to know the real story behind this 😀


This can't be the first time this type of thing has happened based on their business model either... I'm sure customer service has a nice "shared docs" folder with a blanket written email where the agent needs only to supply a few attributes to make it relevant.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Website says 3-5 weeks for some of the models I checked.


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## skingwatch (Sep 14, 2009)

On the bright side, now this thread can stay alive for another 3-5 weeks!


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Oh wow, yes they are and even have 300T Pro and 300 Dstar on bracelet showing

Heck, this is better than watching tennis 



drmdwebb said:


> Website says 3-5 weeks for some of the models I checked.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

I attempted to purchase an Omega from JS that had a ship time off something like 6- 10 weeks. The order never shipped and I never received a cancellation notice.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

I've been watching this thread since it started since I have been in the market for a new Doxa. I didn't buy from Joma. It all sounded too unorganized and shaky. 

When all is said and done, there is only one way I'd buy another Doxa and that's actually buying from Doxa. I am not a fan of "bad customer service" or unresponsive brands that only appear when they have a new product but at this point, I will let all the responsibility fall on Doxa when something goes wrong. I think that I would think of myself as an idiot if I purchased from Jomashop. They've already hinted (if not blatantly shown) that they are quite a mess when it comes to this Doxa sale. Even if they come through, I would always remember the horrible experience only to save a few dollars.
It may be just me, but that's where I'm at with all this.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Don’t cancel your orders. A 26% off Doxa is 100% better.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Ya, I didn't pull the trigger when I had the chance first time around and after reading @oystertrader response, I don't believe I will now.
Again, I hope Joma isn't giving you guys the reach around. I guess we'll know in 5 wks. ..... for the second time.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

So...if my CC doesn't list the order, and PP doesn't list the order, is there still an order? Do I need to cancel it? I don't want a charge suddenly showing up sometime, even if a watch shows up shortly thereafter. Nor do I want to buy 2 watches.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

BigBluefish said:


> So...if my CC doesn't list the order, and PP doesn't list the order, is there still an order? Do I need to cancel it? I don't want a charge suddenly showing up sometime, even if a watch shows up shortly thereafter. Nor do I want to buy 2 watches.


Hmmmm .... Good question. I actually sent an email to cancel my order, and received a confirmation from JS.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

As long as you have enough credit on the CC used, JS will charge when the order is shipped.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

drmdwebb said:


> Hmmmm .... Good question. I actually sent an email to cancel my order, and received a confirmation from JS.


Hmmm. I went back through my e-mails and have the original Joma confirmation e-mail. But I payed via PP and never set up a Joma account, so I can't (easily) check the order status. (Calling and sitting around on hold isn't easy. OK, it is, but I'm not up for the aggravation on a Monday.)



BobMartian said:


> As long as you have enough credit on the CC used, JS will charge when the order is shipped.


Not a problem. Oodles of credit. I could put a Rolex or two on that card. (Which says zero about my financial state but simply goes to show CC companies are NOT your friends! And why would I buy a Rolex, anyway?) When card is payed off again at end of month, the Joma order, if it comes through, will be the only charge. The problem is my wife's "You paid $750 for a WATCH?!?" when she reads the statement. What's that saying, "my greatest fear is that after I die my wife will sell all my watches for what I told her I paid for them?" Actually she doesn't really want to know, and she doesn't ask. It's my money. So long as it doesn't go on hookers and blow, I'm in the clear.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Anyone know what is going on at Jomashop?!? I emailed them and no reply as of yet.

The Doxas are back up on their webpage. It states 3-4 weeks again.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

BigBluefish said:


> hookers and blow


Man, I gotta find a way to work that into some of my work conversations


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

usc1 said:


> Anyone know what is going on at Jomashop?!? I emailed them and no reply as of yet.
> 
> The Doxas are back up on their webpage. It states 3-4 weeks again.


Yeah, seems to be roughly what was available before it was taken down last week. Maybe with a couple additions here for cancelled orders and a couple of losses for people who just saw them for the first time and snapped them up. When they first went up, there were a lot more models available. Which makes me think (hope?) that the orders that were placed and not affirmatively cancelled during the DOXA page's hiatus will still be honored.


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

what a ride… I am not canceling my order, got nothing to lose.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

ie_benitex said:


> what a ride… I am not canceling my order, got nothing to lose.


Yep - I may just do the same - gives me three to five weeks to change my mind.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

Good luck everyone. They are great watches no matter how you get them (unless you steal them ). That case on the 300 and 300T is like no other cushion case.


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

Well, I sent them an email days ago asking for a status update (since I don't have an account) and surprise surprise, they never responded. So I filled out a cancellation, we'll see if that ever gets responded to


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

ean10775 said:


> Yep - I may just do the same - gives me three to five weeks to change my mind.


and you can always return it to jomas


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

This thread and JS actions here reminds me of being the airport while the airline slowly cancels your flight. Rather than tell you it's cancelled, every 15 minutes or so they delay by 15 minutes, and then hours later, it's finally cancelled. You couldn't have just cancelled it to begin with?????


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Now that the watches are back up again, I have to believe that Joma are 'relatively' confident that they will get the watches. If it was a total bust and they took down the Doxa page, why put it up again? 

Somewhere out there someone knows the story, we need to track him down and ply him with Whiskey until he dishes the dirt


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Yes and just like at the airport, Joma is scrambling to find another plane before cancelling the flight  



drmdwebb said:


> This thread and JS actions here reminds me of being the airport while the airline slowly cancels your flight. Rather than tell you it's cancelled, every 15 minutes or so they delay by 15 minutes, and then hours later, it's finally cancelled. You couldn't have just cancelled it to begin with?????


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Well I bought something else...If Joma's site was more proficient I would have cancelled my order over the weekend... but now that I have another 3-5 weeks... maybe I sell some stragglers that don't get enough wrist time and leave my order indefinatly open until THEY cancel it. Worst case, my collection gets an overdue overhaul that it needed anyway...

Besides... I'd miss you guys...


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

Sales like this are not a good thing for the product value and not a good thing for brand value outright , if this goes ahead then 100% of people would not expect to pay full price for doxa again and it also would not sit well to the people who did pay full price at doxa or elsewhere 
not a good look for a brand that is trying to get public recognition


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Monkeynuts said:


> Sales like this are not a good thing for the product value and not a good thing for brand value outright , if this goes ahead then 100% of people would not expect to pay full price for doxa again and it also would not sit well to the people who did pay full price at doxa or elsewhere
> not a good look for a brand that is trying to get public recognition


I’m not sure I understand the thinking here - Joma is a grey market seller. Grey market sellers sell lots of brands. When you buy grey market you trade a discounted price for a lack of a manufacturers warranty. How is this any different for Doxa than it is for Hamilton, Oris, Omega, etc?


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> I’m not sure I understand the thinking here - Joma is a grey market seller. Grey market sellers sell lots of brands. When you buy grey market you trade a discounted price for a lack of a manufacturers warranty. How is this any different for Doxa than it is for Hamilton, Oris, Omega, etc?


I think only different for DOXA because traditionally there are no gray-market dealers selling DOXA. In this case, though, I think it might actually be more likely to stimulate interest in the brand and not affect overall pricing and desirability going forward because:

1. This is, relatively speaking, a small volume sale of a small, niche brand; and
2. A one time event.

Old DOXA fans know this isn't going to be the way things are in the future, and DOXA might just grab a few more customers it might not have had otherwise because they were able to, jus this once, pick up new DOXAs at used DOXA prices. (Arguably, this whole affair could have been "staged" for just that purpose.)


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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

I hate to be that guy but I’ll just quote my post from (very) early in this thread:



LosAngelesTimer said:


> I'd love to be proven wrong but I would be shocked if any of these watches materialze from Joma at these prices. Make sure to post in this thread if you actually secure a watch from them at the advertised price.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I called and finally got a human after setting my phone down while on hold for 45 minutes.

I asked why my order when from 1-3 days and was not shipped. My 300T AM is not back up on the site but she did confirm we are back up to 3-5 weeks and it "IS AN ESTIMATE". She claims that service reps are not told where the watches come from due to confidential agreements with the "vendors" but she did tell me that all of there watches come from outside of the USA. She went on to tell me that Joma has an agreement in place to get the presold watches and fill those orders first so if I still wanted mine to leave it alone and not cancel. I have 2nd one on order as well.. just in case 

I explained to her that this was quite a hot topic in some circles and she chuckled and told me almost every call she has taken today was in regard to Doxa.

Do I feel more confidant? Not even a little... but at this point, I guess I'll go on with my life, leave this on order and continue chatting with you gents over the "Doxa Dream". Nothing to lose!!


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Now if they added the Whitepearl to the mix, I'd be back in


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

What a mess lol. Joma comes off as quite incompetent here.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

NeurosciGuy15 said:


> What a mess lol. Joma comes off as quite incompetent here.


I don't think anyone had doubts about that...


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

This here is an interesting read on Rolex and the agreement they have with ADs. 

REVEALED: The Official Rules Your Rolex Authorized Dealer Has To Follow - ATELIER DE GRIFF 

Yet, go to Joma and they have a boatload of Rollys for sale. I'm sure they are not a Rolex AD


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

ie_benitex said:


> and you can always return it to jomas


Their website says excluding shipping and handling charges though. So not only do I need to pay a decent fee to ship it back to them, you just KNOW their going to dock you something stupid for the original shipping. That's at least $30 you'll never see again


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Their website says excluding shipping and handling charges though. So not only do I need to pay a decent fee to ship it back to them, you just KNOW their going to dock you something stupid for the original shipping. That's at least $30 you'll never see again


I paid like $45.00 to send my DOA 300T back to Doxa USA and that was gone out of my pocket... Never getting that back. I saw the Joma coupon for $50.00 off the additional savings as my payback... maybe I'll feel whole on that mess if the watches ever ship....


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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

BobMartian said:


> Don’t cancel your orders. A 26% off Doxa is 100% better.


wait, is this r/pennystocks? I’m confused! 🤣🤣🤣
…but I’m holding !!!


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

newhaven1410 said:


> wait, is this r/pennystocks? I’m confused!
> …but I’m holding !!!


Meme stocks I think is what you mean. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## Atebit (Feb 16, 2014)

No 200T Divingstar right now


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

newhaven1410 said:


> wait, is this r/pennystocks? I’m confused!
> …but I’m holding !!!


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

BobMartian said:


>


Diamond hands!

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Their website says excluding shipping and handling charges though. So not only do I need to pay a decent fee to ship it back to them, you just KNOW their going to dock you something stupid for the original shipping. That's at least $30 you'll never see again


Plus you will be paying a hefty NY state sales tax.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

Atebit said:


> No 200T Divingstar right now


Check your PM


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Sounds like the party is not over yet!


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

heineken4u said:


> Diamond hands!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


Diamond wrist


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

TraserH3 said:


> Sounds like the party is not over yet!


I would like to think so as well but nothing but excuses from Joma. The only saving grace is the “no charge” until shipped. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

I'd just like to know from Joma why they made all the Doxa's disappear off their site and then reappear a few days later? Is it connected to their phone and chat communication issues?










Is it like Waynes World when the car comes and they have to take the hockey net down and put it back up after the car goes by?


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

Here we go again, just got this email from JOMAS 3-4 weeks??



Upon reviewing your order, it seems that one or more item(s) you have ordered is not physically in our warehouse at this time:

Order Number: xxxxxxx

Z-VVLKH - Doxa SUB 200 Professional Hand Wind Orange Dial Watch ------->Product Availability: 3 to 4 Weeks



Jomashop.com has already backordered these item(s) for you. The estimated time it will take to ship this item out of our warehouse is posted above.


Please note that your credit card will not be charged until after the order ships. The amount shown on your card as of now is only a pending hold.
Also note that Amazon Payments and Visa Pay orders are pre-charged before the order is shipped.

When the item ships out of our warehouse, you will be charged and also emailed tracking information.

We appreciate your patience and understanding.

This email is to keep you informed about your order status; it is not necessary to reply to this email unless you have any further questions.


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## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

ie_benitex said:


> Here we go again, just got this email from JOMAS 3-4 weeks??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Likewise, just received an identical email stating the 3 to 4 week delay.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

That’s encouraging.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Just got a similar e-mail from Joma.


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

Me too


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Me three


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

oh why not... "me four"...

Now the real question.... will we have this crazy cycle all over again in 3-4 weeks?

which... by the way... why 3-4 weeks? Its not like they are waiting for Doxa to build the watches... is the retailer trying to sell the excess inventory down before shipping the cases to Joma or have they just not found the actual retailer to sell them the watches yet? Its not as though its a shipping lead time...


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

They most likely have a source already and Doxa might be trying to stop the wholesale deal is my guess.


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

Go this from JOMO a minute ago. 
Official notification of the delay.



Dear Jim Bianchi,

Thank you again for your purchase from Jomashop.com! It is our responsibility to keep you up-to-date about your order with us.

Upon reviewing your order, it seems that one or more item(s) you have ordered is not physically in our warehouse at this time:

Order Number: Mxxxxxx

Z-W4MUV - Doxa SUB 200 Divingstar Automatic Men's Watch 799.10.3 ------->Product Availability: 3 to 4 Weeks

Jomashop.com has already backordered these item(s) for you. The estimated time it will take to ship this item out of our warehouse is posted above.

* Please note that your credit card will not be charged until after the order ships. The amount shown on your card as of now is only a pending hold.

* Also note that Amazon Payments and Visa Pay orders are pre-charged before the order is shipped.

When the item ships out of our warehouse, you will be charged and also emailed tracking information.

We appreciate your patience and understanding.

This email is to keep you informed about your order status; it is not necessary to reply to this email unless you have any further questions.



Thank You,
Jomashop.com Order Processing


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Yeah, I think beginning of May Joma is going to tell us the watches are not available. I’ll keep my order open (why not?) but I no longer expect to actually get a Sub 200 Searambler.

I’m now here solely for the entertainment and camaraderie of this thread. Which will actually be a much nicer gift than the usual microfiber cloth or another faux leather watch roll if the watch should unexpectedly appear.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

JimBianchi said:


> Go this from JOMO a minute ago.
> Official notification of the delay.
> 
> 
> ...


you’re gonna love that Sub 200 Divingstar, I wear mine daily.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

The plot thickens. Hopefully this thread doesn’t go on all year. Lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lanjim (Nov 23, 2015)

Come on guys... Enough is enough.









Sent from my SM-F711U1 using Tapatalk


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

It’s surprising JS sent out that email. They currently have Doxa available on their site. These orders might actually be fulfilled.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

ie_benitex said:


> Here we go again, just got this email from JOMAS 3-4 weeks??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just got the same email. Not holding my breath.


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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)




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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

If nothing else it is driving a spike to the Jomashop website. While you are there you might notice something else you must have……
Brilliant covert marketing.

Or they are part of the Russian mafia collecting credit card data to be used nefariously once a breach of data happens.

Or, truth be told, Doxa is off loading all the returned watches that have been returned for a multiple of reasons. Refurbished.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Crazy Cajun said:


> If nothing else it is driving a spike to the Jomashop website. While you are there you might notice something else you must have……
> Brilliant covert marketing.
> 
> Or they are part of the Russian mafia collecting credit card data to be used nefariously once a breach of data happens.
> ...


I spoke to them early on and they confirmed that Joma does not sell factory seconds or refurbs and these Doxas were no exception. They said 100% they are from an overseas authorized dealer.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

I got an email response from them yesterday that indicated that they are still expecting the watches in at some point.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

ie_benitex said:


> They most likely have a source already and Doxa might be trying to stop the wholesale deal is my guess.


That would be my guess as well. Somebody is threatening legal action or to exercise a remedy of some sort.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

STARSTELLA said:


> I spoke to them early on and they confirmed that Joma does not sell factory seconds or refurbs and these Doxas were no exception. They said 100% they are from an overseas authorized dealer.


And they also claim and confirmed to have watches to ship out five days ago….


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Crazy Cajun said:


> And they also claim and confirmed to have watches to ship out five days ago….


Would Doxa have denounced the sale of Doxa seconds and refurbished models that only they could have provided Joma? Lets have some logic here. No dealer is sitting on THAT many defective units... as much as I believe that's possible based on my experience.


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## Semper Jeep (Jan 11, 2013)

What was it Barnum said? Something about a sucker being born every minute? Well, count me among the potential suckers since I just placed an order for one of these mythical Jomashop Doxa. We'll see! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

Just called Jomashop and changed my order from a Sub 300T Searambler on rubber strap to the same on bracelet.

The CS person also added a $50.00 coupon to my order so that, in the event that they actually ship the watch, the bracelet version will cost me less that the strap one.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

jorgenl said:


> Just called Jomashop and changed my order from a Sub 300T Searambler on rubber strap to the same on bracelet.
> 
> The CS person also added a $50.00 coupon to my order so that, in the event that they actually ship the watch, the bracelet version will cost me less that the strap one.


I was wondering how long that one was going to sit there on the website.


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

ean10775 said:


> I was wondering how long that one was going to sit there on the website.


Looks like I snagged the last one....


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

jorgenl said:


> Looks like I snagged the last one....


The feeling I get is that that there are only one of a lot of these models that Joma has been allocated. When we see new watches pop up they are cancellations that have been added back into the fold.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

ean10775 said:


> The feeling I get is that that there are only one of a lot of these models that Joma has been allocated. When we see new watches pop up they are cancellations that have been added back into the fold.


Yep. I think so.


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## SenorPedro (Apr 18, 2013)

ean10775 said:


> The feeling I get is that that there are only one of a lot of these models that Joma has been allocated. When we see new watches pop up they are cancellations that have been added back into the fold.


Exactly. 

I've played around a little, adding various pieces to my cart and trying to increase quantities, etc. Generally, it seems that there is one, or perhaps two, of most SKUs except for the SUB200s - those max out at 3 in my cart and a message pops up saying _3 max quantity allowed_. A single piece pops back in due to a cancellation, then someone snags it and it goes away again. In a departure from others, the 300T Sharkhunter on rubber actually showed _out of stock_ and had the typical Jomashop "inquire and we'll find one for you" kind of verbiage... 

Perhaps more interesting, though, is we are now showing ships in _2-3 weeks_ instead of 3-5... I'm still holding my two orders!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I know at least 2 others who bought 300T Aquamarines on the BOR. I know that's a love/hate color way, but I think there are a number of skis based purely on the number of people who have commented here that they have watches on order.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

STARSTELLA said:


> I know at least 2 others who bought 300T Aquamarines on the BOR. I know that's a love/hate color way, but I think there are a number of skis based purely on the number of people who have commented here that they have watches on order.


I love the color - I have the SUB 200 in Aquamarine, and I'm surprised how much I like it.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

bellbrass said:


> I love the color - I have the SUB 200 in Aquamarine, and I'm surprised how much I like it.


Me too; love it.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Love the aquamarine on the 300s and 600. The brightly colored 200s don't do it for me. Sharkhunter, Caribbean or Searambler. But the Sharkhunter looks sooooo much like my Mido Ocean Star Tribute I can't do it and there are other blue dialed divers I've got my eye on and I love silver dials. So, Searambler it is.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

STARSTELLA said:


> I spoke to them early on and they confirmed that Joma does not sell factory seconds or refurbs and these Doxas were no exception. They said 100% they are from an overseas authorized dealer.


Hmmm, I wonder if it's Time and Tide? They became a Doxa AD a few years ago and I attended the launch in Brisbane. A good friend of mine tried on a 300T and could not undo the clasp, they had to remove links to get the bracelet off him. Quite embarrassing on the night I must say.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Nope, not Time and Tide. I just checked their site and they show Doxas galore, even the new Whitepearl models.

I wonder if there was some other Asian AD who struggled to sell the SUB range



Pete26 said:


> Hmmm, I wonder if it's Time and Tide? They became a Doxa AD a few years ago and I attended the launch in Brisbane. A good friend of mine tried on a 300T and could not undo the clasp, they had to remove links to get the bracelet off him. Quite embarrassing on the night I must say.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Nope, not Time and Tide. I just checked their site and they show Doxas galore, even the new Whitepearl models.
> 
> I wonder if there was some other Asian AD who struggled to sell the SUB range


I think my Doxa came from Time and Tide, my friend who I swapped with has ordered a new caseback from them and will be forwarding it to me if they ever ship it.


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

200T G. All gone now.


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Aberdeen gets a Doxa stockist! Looks like I might get to try on that 600 after all...


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

A Sub 300 Searambler on bracelet popped up today so I snagged it. I’ll keep the order for the Sharkhunter as well and see if one or both show up. If it’s the latter I’ll have a decision to make. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> A Sub 300 Searambler on bracelet popped up today so I snagged it. I’ll keep the order for the Sharkhunter as well and see if one or both show up. If it’s the latter I’ll have a decision to make.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I did the same. Ordered an AM 300T on the bracelet in February and then in mid March added a 300T Sea Rambler just to play it safe that I get... something?


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## Viseguy (Jul 1, 2018)

ie_benitex said:


> They most likely have a source already and Doxa might be trying to stop the wholesale deal is my guess.


Oof, I hope not. I haven't canceled my Sub 200 Divingstar order because my "credit card won't be charged until".... But I've stopped holding my breath. 😰


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Viseguy said:


> Oof, I hope not. I haven't canceled my Sub 200 Divingstar order because my "credit card won't be charged until".... But I've stopped holding my breath. 😰


Good. Holding your breath is bad when diving, especially if changing depth.


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## Viseguy (Jul 1, 2018)

drmdwebb said:


> Good. Holding your breath is bad when diving, especially if changing depth.


I was hoping to do some desk diving with my bright yellow Doxa .... 😢


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Happy 2nd 2-3 weeks ETA everyone


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

Feels a little bit like…


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Jomashop …











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Reminds me of Wimpy: "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."


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## Viseguy (Jul 1, 2018)

Viseguy said:


> Oof, I hope not. I haven't canceled my Sub 200 Divingstar order because my "credit card won't be charged until".... But I've stopped holding my breath. 😰


Well, I canceled my order and Joma immediately sent me an email acknowledging the same. Went ahead an ordered the piece at full price from Watches of Switzerland. They say it'll be here this week.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

It’s becoming quite entertaining looking at how stock comes and goes - presumably as orders are cancelled in frustration - but the lead times remain more or less constant!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

Has anyone received delivery from JS at all? Just curious


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Nope. I’ll probably cancel in a few days. Time to move on soon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Well this is turning into _hit Show part duex. I'd sure like to see some members made happy with their great deals on Doxa. Keeping the faith though for another week.


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

usc1 said:


> Nope. I’ll probably cancel in a few days. Time to move on soon.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry to hear that ; it looked like a fantastic deal from the get go.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

If it's too good to be true ...


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## natotime (Aug 19, 2021)

If they do not charge the card until it ships, what is the harm? It is tempting to place an order...


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

Im keeping my order in. While it is a good deal, I dont think its a "too good to be true" kind of deal. Do I faith that I'll get the watch from Jomashop? No, not really. But I'll give them this final wait of 2-3 weeks. If after this I am given another excuse I'll finally cancel. The nice thing is money isnt taken until shipped so I am not out anything except my time. And I just ordered a Scurfa treasure seeker in the meantime to fill the void of getting a new watch


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Now listing as shipping in 1-2 weeks on Jomashop. I wonder though if this is just automated based on the time that has elapsed since the watches were put back on the site.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

rhaykal said:


> Im keeping my order in. While it is a good deal, I dont think its a "too good to be true" kind of deal. Do I faith that I'll get the watch from Jomashop? No, not really. But I'll give them this final wait of 2-3 weeks. If after this I am given another excuse I'll finally cancel. The nice thing is money isnt taken until shipped so I am not out anything except my time. And I just ordered a Scurfa treasure seeker in the meantime to fill the void of getting a new watch


I don't understand these people who cancel the orders... It says shipping in 4-5 weeks... it doesn't ship after 3, so they cancel...to your point, the card hasn't been charged... so what does it matter? If you really want the watch, its a great deal... if you just want to spend the money on "A Watch", then why would you feel like you could wait the initial 4-5 weeks anyway?


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## castle27 (Jan 12, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> I don't understand these people who cancel the orders... It says shipping in 4-5 weeks... it doesn't ship after 3, so they cancel...to your point, the card hasn't been charged... so what does it matter? If you really want the watch, its a great deal... if you just want to spend the money on "A Watch", then why would you feel like you could wait the initial 4-5 weeks anyway?


For what it's worth, if it were me, I'd be disappointed by the moving goalposts. This thread was started at the end of February, a couple of days after I had committed to purchase a 300T Professional from another forum member for somewhere between Joma's discount and the DOXA retail price.

At first, I was a bit disappointed that I was going to be paying a premium over the Joma price for a second hand watch. At the end of the day, I accepted that I agreed on the deal because it was a price that I felt was worth it, and the seller came with great references. Plus, I was due to receive my watch within days, and the initial Joma estimates were a few weeks out.

At this point, I've been enjoying wearing my 300T for almost two months, while those who have Joma orders still don't have a clue when or if their watches will show up. I get that Joma hasn't charged anyone's cards yet, but if you place an order for a watch, I'm guessing it's because it's something that you want to wear and enjoy. I no longer regret paying a bit more.

It's kind of funny to me that people are very willing to forgive Joma for their customer service issues and snafus -- and even somehow place the blame for them on Doxa -- while continuing to freely criticize Doxa like it may earn them some WUS street cred.

Look, these are great watches. They're not cheap, but in my opinion, they're heads and shoulders above what else you can get for the price. I understand that everyone wants a deal, and that for some reason, people hold a personal grudge against Doxa management because of what they've read of other people's opinions and experiences, so they want to get the Joma special to stick it to the man. I'd suggest that it might not be such a bad idea to cancel your order from Joma and either a) find a second hand seller who can get you the watch at a similar price to Joma's discount, or b) order direct from Doxa and have some assurance that you'll have your new watch on the wrist by the end of the week.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

castle27 said:


> For what it's worth, if it were me, I'd be disappointed by the moving goalposts. This thread was started at the end of February, a couple of days after I had committed to purchase a 300T Professional from another forum member for somewhere between Joma's discount and the DOXA retail price.
> 
> At first, I was a bit disappointed that I was going to be paying a premium over the Joma price for a second hand watch. At the end of the day, I accepted that I agreed on the deal because it was a price that I felt was worth it, and the seller came with great references. Plus, I was due to receive my watch within days, and the initial Joma estimates were a few weeks out.
> 
> ...


I guess from my view, we are collectors and enthusiasts. I doubt there's a buyer in the group who's waiting on his or her first watch. I think personally 3 watches have come in and 5 have left since I ordered the pair of 300T from Joma. If I was prepared to wait 3-5 weeks initially... without my card being charged, what's another 5 weeks? 

I've beaten the dead horse but my experience with Doxa USA was so bad, its ONLY the discount that brought me back again. The discount and knowing exactly what to expect from Joma's service runs parallel to my patience.

Having collected for over 25 years I've learned that there's always another watch. I'll be happy if my card is charged and I get my watches, but if it never comes to fruition, I won't be buying a DOXA at MSRP. I likely won't be buying a Doxa.


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## wellman70 (Dec 27, 2015)

So I called Jomashop today to make sure I could return this in case it does actually ship.

Now she said they are coming but in the 2nd week of May. Little outside there date advertised on the website.

Take that for what its worth...


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

The chip shortage is more likely to be rectified sooner than Joma will be shipping out any Doxas. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

heineken4u said:


> The chip shortage is more likely to be rectified sooner than Joma will be shipping out any Doxas.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


Fingers crossed... I have a Tacoma on order too


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

This whole thread is pretty funny. I will sell my Doxa for $1000 to anyone willing to wait for it's availability. 10-15 years, maybe? What a deal! Can't beat the price! And my phone works. And I also won't charge your card until it ships!

Or you can get your Doxa in a few days by paying a bit more and buying a Doxa from Doxa (that horrible brand that makes a watch you're willing to wait for). 😅 

BTW, this is not a sales thread. My Doxas are not actually for sale.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ticktocker said:


> This whole thread is pretty funny. I will sell my Doxa for $1000 to anyone willing to wait for it's availability. 10-15 years, maybe? What a deal! Can't beat the price! And my phone works. And I also won't charge your card until it ships!
> 
> Or you can get your Doxa in a few days by paying a bit more and buying a Doxa from Doxa (that horrible brand that makes a watch you're willing to wait for). 😅
> 
> BTW, this is not a sales thread. My Doxas are not actually for sale.


A bit more? I mean... I have 38 other divers... to save 500.00, I'm happy to wait. To not deal with Doxa USA... I'm happy to wait. To get a Doxa at what has proven to be a more appropriate price point based on the quality and specs... also.... HAPPY TO WAIT.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> A bit more? I mean... I have 38 other divers... to save 500.00, I'm happy to wait. To not deal with Doxa USA... I'm happy to wait. To get a Doxa at what has proven to be a more appropriate price point based on the quality and specs... also.... HAPPY TO WAIT.


Uhhhhh, Yeah, I think we can all tell you are happy to wait  but you have to admit this whole Doxa sale thing is pretty funny.
Looking forward to seeing some deliveries.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

So how many people have bought a SUB 300 or 300T from Doxa in say the last year and sold it for more than they paid for it? They are selling for 300 to 500 bucks less on the secondhand market. At a saving of almost 500 smackaroonies at Jomashop you are maybe, perhaps (if they ever deliver) buying the SUB for around what the secondhand price is, but it is brand spanky new with a Joma warranty and a return if you don't like it. 

Is it worth waiting for 2 months at that price? I'd say yes as you aren't actually paying for anything until it ships and if it doesn't ship......... Annoying, but hey c'est la vie!

If you can't wait, really want a SUB now and want to pay full price. Buy it from Doxa. It's the full new car experience. Which is actually pretty good.

This thread started out (by me) in honest ignorance and thinking it was a good deal. It has become a chronicle of broken promises by Joma but and it is a big BUT........ it may still pan out.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ticktocker said:


> Uhhhhh, Yeah, I think we can all tell you are happy to wait  but you have to admit this whole Doxa sale thing is pretty funny.
> Looking forward to seeing some deliveries.


In all reality, from the perspective of Doxa, they could easily honor the Joma price if they wanted to if they felt like giving an FU to the dealer who is providing these watches. It really has shown that many folks are more interested in the brand at a lesser price point. You know based on many micros that are similarly spec'd, the watches could be sold at Joma prices all day and profits still made... Whats the difference in the actual cost of manufacturing between the 200 and 300 models?

My first 300t was a lemon but maybe, just maybe this discounted piece... if it ever lands... will bring back a warm feeling and I might add a couple more pieces down the road. 

Doxa really could benefit from this....


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> Doxa really could benefit from this....


Could they though? I know there is a lot of buzz here on the forum and someone said they spoke to a Jomashop representative who said at one point they were getting lots of calls about Doxa, but how many watches are we really talking about here? Maybe 50-60? If we assume there were one or two of each SKU? There are still 30 left on the site. It seems to me that its more likely a case of a small number of very enthusiastic consumers making this a ‘thing’ because Doxas aren’t usually sold at a discount. 

Does it really make sense for Doxa as a result to alter their pricing across the product range? Some models may be overpriced, sure, but a 300T is still less than an Oris Aquis, and a little more than Longines Hydroconquest. That seems fair to me if you prefer the Doxa design language over those other two. I don’t think a 300T needs to be a $1350 watch in order for it to be considered to be priced competitively.

I suppose that I see Doxa as a niche product and find it hard to imagine that by simply lowering the price, all of a sudden Doxa is going to start doing enough volume to make it worthwhile.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> Could they though? I know there is a lot of buzz here on the forum and someone said they spoke to a Jomashop representative who said at one point they were getting lots of calls about Doxa, but how many watches are we really talking about here? Maybe 50-60? If we assume there were one or two of each SKU? There are still 30 left on the site. It seems to me that its more likely a case of a small number of very enthusiastic consumers making this a ‘thing’ because Doxas aren’t usually sold at a discount.
> 
> Does it really make sense for Doxa as a result to alter their pricing across the product range? Some models may be overpriced, sure, but a 300T is still less than an Oris Aquis, and a little more than Longines Hydroconquest. That seems fair to me if you prefer the Doxa design language over those other two. I don’t think a 300T needs to be a $1350 watch in order for it to be considered to be priced competitively.
> 
> I suppose that I see Doxa as a niche product and find it hard to imagine that by simply lowering the price, all of a sudden Doxa is going to start doing enough volume to make it worthwhile.


I don't think you can compare the Doxa name against the mighty swatch brands and having owned all those mentioned, the Oris and Longines were far nicer than the 300T I got even excluding the fact that it didn't work. That being said Doxa would have to step up there service and quality game too. Not that Swatch brands are notorious for good service... but there are so many other brands who offer a similar base eta/selita/SP powered diver for less than 1/2 of the 300T and maybe 20-30% less than a 200.

I don't think it should be a race to the bottom, but the industry has so many examples of brands offering better value.

I don't think the number could have been as low as 50-60. I doubt Doxa would have made stink about it. I bet they know exactly who had them and realized the number was deep enough to impact their consumer direct online sales program.


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

STARSTELLA said:


> I don't think you can compare the Doxa name against the mighty swatch brands and having owned all those mentioned, the Oris and Longines were far nicer than the 300T I got even excluding the fact that it didn't work. That being said Doxa would have to step up there service and quality game too. Not that Swatch brands are notorious for good service... but there are so many other brands who offer a similar base eta/selita/SP powered diver for less than 1/2 of the 300T and maybe 20-30% less than a 200.
> 
> I don't think it should be a race to the bottom, but the industry has so many examples of brands offering better value.
> 
> I don't think the number could have been as low as 50-60. I doubt Doxa would have made stink about it. I bet they know exactly who had them and realized the number was deep enough to impact their consumer direct online sales program.


But at a certain point, you should start wondering why you still try to catch a Doxa, if they are as 'badly build' as you pretend they are. 
And regarding the price, my point of view is that you can catch Doxa at better price than Sinn. Sinn is a brand that I adore. Their divers lineup is in the same field as Doxas with Selita movement. But Doxa are cheaper although they wear the 'swiss made' label, plus the fact that they have an historical background much stronger than the one from Sinn.
So at the end of all this, I think Doxa pricing is fair. And nobody knows how many Doxas are sold each month. But one thing is sure: the brand has grown much if compared to the Rick Marei era that only offered LE. My guess is that they would not develop their lineup if it was not 'bankable'.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

JIFB said:


> But at a certain point, you should start wondering why you still try to catch a Doxa, if they are as 'badly build' as you pretend they are.
> And regarding the price, my point of view is that you can catch Doxa at better price than Sinn. Sinn is a brand that I adore. Their divers lineup is in the same field as Doxas with Selita movement. But Doxa are cheaper although they wear the swiss made label plus the fact that they have an historical background much stronger than Sinn.
> So at the end of all this, I think Doxa pricing is fair. And nobody knows how many Doxas are sold each month. But one thing is sure: the band has grown much when compare to the Rick Marei era that only offered LE.


Agreed Sinn are far superior in build quality as well. I've had a few over the years. The only reason I'm in this is because of the discount. I've refined my collection over the years and all my divers are retro reissue in style. Doxa exemplifies that perfectly. They are poorly built, overpriced and under supported/serviced by comparison to literally any brand in my box and any brand I've ever owned excluding the early Panerai pieces I owned.... but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to look past that for the "right" price. Joma offers exactly that.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> Agreed Sinn are far superior in build quality as well. I've had a few over the years. The only reason I'm in this is because of the discount. I've refined my collection over the years and all my divers are retro reissue in style. Doxa exemplifies that perfectly. They are poorly built, overpriced and under supported/serviced by comparison to literally any brand in my box and any brand I've ever owned excluding the early Panerai pieces I owned.... but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to look past that for the "right" price. Joma offers exactly that.


I should clarify... my one and only experience from November of last year.

My 300T: the bezel was sloppy-it had a lot of play, the fitment of the bracelet was inconsistent and had play, the finish wasn't great and then the fact that it was basically DOA then compounded with the service provided from Doxa USA..

Yet here I am.. like a moth to flame again. I asked myself if DOXA offered me $500.00 back last year, would I have kept the watch and been happy. The answer was yes. Thats why I was willing to throw the dice again with Joma.


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

I've had 4 Doxas:
SUB 1200, back in 2011-2012. Kept great time, no issues at all with the case / bezel / dial / bracelet / movement. Sold it because it was simply too big for my wrists.
Jenny Reissue, black dial w/ orange bezel: Kept great time, no issues at all with the case / bezel / dial / bracelet / movement. Sold it because it was simply too big for my wrists.
Jenny Reissue, Blue dial: Kept great time, no issues at all with the case / bezel / dial / bracelet / movement. Sold it because it was simply too big for my wrists.
SUB 200: WUS members told me it wore smaller than a 42, and they were right; so far, everything works great, and it keeps very good time for a Standard-grade ETA 2824-2.
Next Doxa....??? Maybe a SUB 300.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

I absolutely love my SUB 200 Divingstar. Keeps great time, looks great.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

bellbrass said:


> I've had 4 Doxas:
> SUB 1200, back in 2011-2012. Kept great time, no issues at all with the case / bezel / dial / bracelet / movement. Sold it because it was simply too big for my wrists.
> Jenny Reissue, black dial w/ orange bezel: Kept great time, no issues at all with the case / bezel / dial / bracelet / movement. Sold it because it was simply too big for my wrists.
> Jenny Reissue, Blue dial: Kept great time, no issues at all with the case / bezel / dial / bracelet / movement. Sold it because it was simply too big for my wrists.
> ...


regrettably, I sold my blue Jenny reissue after the whole mess last fall, but it really was light years ahead of that 300T on all points.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Don’t forget, a 26% off JS Doxa is 100% better. Definitely worth waiting for.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

STARSTELLA said:


> regrettably, I sold my blue Jenny reissue after the whole mess last fall, but it really was light years ahead of that 300T on all points.


How was it ahead of the 300T? 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

heineken4u said:


> How was it ahead of the 300T?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


well it kept time right out of the box, so it had that going for it..

in all honesty, the bezel was snug, accurate and aligned perfectly. The case finishing was really clean and sharp. The lume was better after 7 years than my 300T was brand new. Just the attention to detail on it was really nice. I regret not buying a second colorway when they were dumping the last of them on Ebay in 2020 at $500.00. But it was not made by Doxa, so it really isn't a fair comparison.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

bellbrass said:


> I've had 4 Doxas:
> SUB 1200, back in 2011-2012. Kept great time, no issues at all with the case / bezel / dial / bracelet / movement. Sold it because it was simply too big for my wrists.
> Jenny Reissue, black dial w/ orange bezel: Kept great time, no issues at all with the case / bezel / dial / bracelet / movement. Sold it because it was simply too big for my wrists.
> Jenny Reissue, Blue dial: Kept great time, no issues at all with the case / bezel / dial / bracelet / movement. Sold it because it was simply too big for my wrists.
> ...


I've had 4 as well.

A Jenny Caribbean that wore absolutely huge on my 7" wrist. I didn't like the faux-beads of rice bracelet much, either. It was sold and I don't regret it. It felt like a watch worth less than what I paid for it; maybe like a mid range Seiko of some kind.

A 300T Aquamarine that looks and wears great. It is about 10 seconds off per day. I think it was fairly priced and is very fashionable.

A 1500T Professional that wears much smaller and more comfortably that the Jenny despite its size. It runs within COSC specs. The finishing is superior to the 300T and the bezel feels like butter when turned. My only criticism are the screw lugs, but I truly love this watch and won't ever part with it. If lost, I'd buy it again even if Doxa increases pricing in the future.

A Deco that was given to me 14 years ago. It isn't my style, but I won't ever sell it. I just took it in to be cleaned and it runs about 5 seconds off. It definitely isn't worth the list price of a grandish it sold for in 2008.

Customer service has always been an issue at Doxa. It was absolutely terrible and unprofessional during the Marei era. I have never had an issue in this era, but my need to seek servicing has been limited. I'm guessing we will see many price hikes into the future as the brand continues to mainstream and move away from the forum watch it was from 2001 to the end of the Marei Era. I'm glad to be moving out of a time of endless special editions and disgruntled employees complaining about management online.

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, I've owned 6 Doxas. There were also 2 Grafics in the mix. One was 18k gold and the other was in stainless. They were both hand-winds and both ran great, but have nothing to do with the modern company. I sold them to finance a trip to South America. No regrets there, either.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Just in case you were concerned with buying from Joma....This popped up in my IG Feed..


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Just in case you were concerned with buying from Joma....This popped up in my IG Feed..
> 
> View attachment 16578360


You are one dedicated "Doxa sale at Jomashop" spokesman. They need to pay you top dollar for your efforts. Maybe give you another $500 discount.


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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

Is having 10% of your transactions 1-star good? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Anyone hear from joma recently? I emailed a couple days ago and no reply. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

I’m in no hurry, have too many watches already, and can wait. I’m out of pocket nothing so where’s the harm? If the sale doesn’t go through, well then I didn’t didn’t spend that money next month.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ticktocker said:


> You are one dedicated "Doxa sale at Jomashop" spokesman. They need to pay you top dollar for your efforts. Maybe give you another $500 discount.


I've said it before... I'm totally hit or miss on my experiences from them. Ive had flawless transactions, DOA pieces and even pieces that... unfortunately as it relates to this... never shipped. I'm here for the discount... nothing else. I'm a fan of the "get what you pay for"... I got the shaft from Doxa USA for paying top dollar... now... my expectations for service are quite low and $500.00 off is about what it takes for the Joma risk. hahahaha

the screen shot on their 4.5 rating is very much posted tongue in cheek. Theres no way that's not manipulated.


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## Viseguy (Jul 1, 2018)

valerian839 said:


> I absolutely love my SUB 200 Divingstar. Keeps great time, looks great.


Good to hear. This is what I have coming from Watches of Switzerland, at full price -- or so they tell me; I ordered Friday and, five days later, still no word on shipping. I guess it comes down to: Do you want the watch, or do you want the experience of ordering the watch at a knock-down price and waiting indefinitely to actually have the watch? I opted for the former (I hope). This is my first purchase from WoS. Fingers crossed.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Maybe WoS is waiting on their JS order


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

martin_blank said:


> Is having 10% of your transactions 1-star good?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s obviously not so good as having almost 9 out of 10 customers rating you 4* or above 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

It states 5-7 days now. Likely automated as previously stated. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

usc1 said:


> It states 5-7 days now. Likely automated as previously stated.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe, but it was stating 2 to 3 weeks just yesterday. 

To say 5-7 days now suggests to me something has changed, such as the stock has arrived and is being sorted to fulfill orders. 

This would actually stand to reason as I am traveling next week (a rarity in today’s business climate) and this timing would have the watch delivered while I was away. Murphy’s Law of Watch Delivery cannot be denied.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Maybe, but it was stating 2 to 3 weeks just yesterday.
> 
> To say 5-7 days now suggests to me something has changed, such as the stock has arrived and is being sorted to fulfill orders.
> 
> This would actually stand to reason as I am traveling next week (a rarity in today’s business climate) and this timing would have the watch delivered while I was away. Murphy’s Law of Watch Delivery cannot be denied.


I’m pretty sure it was saying 1-2 weeks as of the 18th, at least for the watches I was looking at. Still I hope you’re right, even though it would be to your detriment!


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

The last time around, we got down to shipping in 1-2 days (or 2-3, can't remember).


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

drmdwebb said:


> The last time around, we got down to shipping in 1-2 days (or 2-3, can't remember).


I think it was 1-2 days when I placed my order.


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

usc1 said:


> Anyone hear from joma recently? I emailed a couple days ago and no reply.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup.

Yesterday.

All bad news, ending with 2 to 3 MONTH delay.

****.


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## rainsch15 (9 mo ago)

Weird to read about all the delays and yet some bracelet options keep popping up. A sub 300t searambler on bracelet was available two days ago. Maybe from people cancelling their orders?


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

JimBianchi said:


> Yup.
> 
> Yesterday.
> 
> ...


That sucks. At this point its a stall. 

I bought two and don’t want to be on the hook for them a year later after no longer desiring the watch. 

Looks like I’m out. 

Good luck fellas. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Website still says delivery in 5-7 days. I’ll wait a day or so, see if that changes. If it does, then I think I’ll bail too. Not about the money, just don’t want to be strung along.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

outside of this thread turning into our own private chat between... 8? of us... I doubt many will see a reason to still stay in this for 2-3 months if that's the true tale... I have a day of running reports tomorrow and plenty of time staring at a screen. I'll give a call and see if I get the same story. Throughout this thread we've seen multiple people told multiple stories that conflict within a couple days... so maybe...... just maybe.....


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

That is a massive downer. Boy this is a rollercoaster of a thread. 5 weeks, 7 days, 2 days, 2 months, the ever changing deadline. This is a Doxa watch that is presumably overstock / unwanted stock from a defunct Doxa retailer. Maybe, maybe not, who the heck knows what the story is.

But it doesn't matter, it's not some commodity that is relying on whether there is a good harvest or not. Its something that Joma (I'm assuming) could get their hands on within a certain period of time. Why would that change? I can't see any way for that to happen. Are Joma just a bunch of lying barstewards? They have a track record of not delivering but they have a greater track record of coming through with the goods.

If Doxa were having the watches made independently through a supplier and ordered a bunch and then fell out with them or had some financial woes I could see the supplier trying to offload them, but Doxa make the watches through Walca which is owned by Jenny who also own Doxa so that scenario is a non starter.

My mother had a saying: "you can watch a thief, but you can't watch a liar". For me Joma are teetering on the edge of the latter at the minute.

My father had a better expression...."Sh#t or get off the pot"  Joma still have the Doxas for sale so they are still on the pot.



JimBianchi said:


> Yup.
> 
> Yesterday.
> 
> ...


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> That is a massive downer. Boy this is a rollercoaster of a thread. 5 weeks, 7 days, 2 days, 2 months, the ever changing deadline. This is a Doxa watch that is presumably overstock / unwanted stock from a defunct Doxa retailer. Maybe, maybe not, who the heck knows what the story is.
> 
> But it doesn't matter, it's not some commodity that is relying on whether there is a good harvest or not. Its something that Joma (I'm assuming) could get their hands on within a certain period of time. Why would that change? I can't see any way for that to happen. Are Joma just a bunch of lying barstewards? They have a track record of not delivering but they have a greater track record of coming through with the goods.
> 
> ...


Just because it doesn't hurt anything at this point... I ordered a 3rd.... why not? Maybe they will trickle in a few at a time and I can't grab my 2nd or 3rd choice...

it is pretty ridiculous, but its Joma's business model. likely.. Low margin, high volume...


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

A 3rd...way to go. If watches were given for optimism, you would definitely get one. Fingers crossed for you.





STARSTELLA said:


> Just because it doesn't hurt anything at this point... I ordered a 3rd.... why not? Maybe they will trickle in a few at a time and I can't grab my 2nd or 3rd choice...
> 
> it is pretty ridiculous, but its Joma's business model. likely.. Low margin, high volume...


----------



## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

This really has been very entertaining. I was in, then out, and would get back in, but now they don't have what I want. Today website still says 5-7 days. I'm on pins and needles to see what happens next.

This is going from a mildly entertaining novella to a true epic saga.


----------



## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

If anyone was hoping to snag a Sub 300 Sharkhunter on bracelet, keep an eye out as I just cancelled the order I had in. I didn’t cancel out of frustration though - I also have a Searambler on order and was only planning on keeping one of them.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I just tried to call and they are closed for "religious" reasons...Earth Day? . Also... chat still is not functional and when I login to my account none of my orders are there... I just get "Something Went Wrong"... even the one from last night. lol

This really is EPIC!


----------



## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> I just tried to call and they are closed for "religious" reasons...Earth Day? . Also... chat still is not functional and when I login to my account none of my orders are there... I just get "Something Went Wrong"... even the one from last night. lol
> 
> This really is EPIC!


It is likely closed for Passover.

Are you trying to access you orders on a mobile device or tablet? I get the same error on my iPhone or iPad, but can see them without issue on my laptop. I wonder if it may be an iOS or browser issue.


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> It is likely closed for Passover.
> 
> Are you trying to access you orders on a mobile device or tablet? I get the same error on my iPhone or iPad, but can see them without issue on my laptop. I wonder if it may be an iOS or browser issue.


just safari from my Mac.... maybe I'll try Firefox from my work computer, but at the same time, I used to be able to see my orders. Who knows at this point!


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Well. they are still taking orders. There were 31 items listed yesterday, now only 29


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> I just tried to call and they are closed for "religious" reasons...Earth Day? . Also... chat still is not functional and when I login to my account none of my orders are there... I just get "Something Went Wrong"... even the one from last night. lol
> 
> This really is EPIC!


It really is. It's one of those deals (and threads) that will be looked at in a few years when someone asks, "How'd you get your Doxa" and will be very entertaining (as if it already isn't!) 😂


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

For those of you old enough to remember...and I'm giving my age away  

This is like an episode from the Man from UNCLE. 

I think it was called the JomaShop Affair


----------



## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

I'm almost tempted to order just for the suspense...


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> It is likely closed for Passover.
> 
> Are you trying to access you orders on a mobile device or tablet? I get the same error on my iPhone or iPad, but can see them without issue on my laptop. I wonder if it may be an iOS or browser issue.


logged in "against policy" from my work computer and all my orders are showing. "awaiting shipment"... but then a Certina DS P500 that I ordered in spring of 2019 and cancelled after 2 months is also "Awaiting Shipment" too.... So there's that..


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

If they had what I wanted (Sub 200 Divingstar), I'd be back in


----------



## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

Flyingdoctor said:


> For those of you old enough to remember...and I'm giving my age away
> 
> This is like an episode from the Man from UNCLE.
> 
> ...


It might turn into an episode of Mission Impossible. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Just a heads up. I cancelled two 300T professionals. Should be listed soon on jomashop.


----------



## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

It’s now saying 3-5 days so you never know…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

adg31 said:


> It’s now saying 3-5 days so you never know…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh, I think we know.

“Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, **** it, I’m buying an Aquastar.”


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Thats should be the new name of the tread...

Happy 2nd 3-5 anniversary gents!


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I’m just along for the ride at this point. 

The only risk I can see is the cost of return shipping if I get a dud. At least it is only going back to NY and not back to Europe. 

Thank you to usc1 for letting me know about the open 300T Pro! 

FWIW, there seems to be no more 300T’s left. Good luck to all of us still on the journey.


----------



## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

Might have to get a 300T tattoo to commemorate this. 🤣


----------



## goheel (Jul 12, 2008)

Dang, looks like i missed out on a 300t


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

goheel said:


> Dang, looks like i missed out on a 300t


That's only assuming that they actually ship!


----------



## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

drmdwebb said:


> That's only assuming that they actually ship!


Lol. Correct. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Kind of strange.. I was just looking around Joma this morning using the the "search by brand" function and Doxa isn't listed in there under "D".... Of course you can manually search it by name. Maybe its a one time buy for them... if they make the buy at all.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

As of 8 a.m. still saying 3-5 days.

So, that means this week. Either they ship by Friday, or they don’t. Sometime before 5:00 p.m. Friday either that “3-5” days changes to “2-3 Weeks” or they are listed as “in stock free shipping” or the Doxa sale disappears.

Either I get a shipping notice by Saturday, or I am gone because Aquadive (but should I wait for new colors?) And now the Silent Service pre order is open.

At full price, Sub 200 or Ginault? Now, _that’s _a brand contrast to be sure. You think folks have strong opinions about _Doxa??? _


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

FWIW, I just (9:30 am Monday morning) spoke to a "supervisor" and she would not promise an actual date for shipping. She did claim that 100% they will have the inventory and I would have tracking next week. She also stated the 3-5 days on the site is currently unrealistic but it could be seen as "VERY BEST Case Scenario"... but unlikely.

She also updated my orders free expedited shipping... worth its weight in Taco Bell if they actually ship me anything!

so technically, could be as much as 11 more days wait if we are to see tracking.....I still say **IF...


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## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Keep the faith lads!


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Hey, the advantage of having no faith is you have none to lose.


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

I've been following this thread all along.

Just caved and placed an order.


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## Bennettc14 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just cancelled my Sub 300 Caribbean on bracelet if anyone was looking.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Ok, I swear I'm tapping out if no one gets a shipping notice *THIS* Friday


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

Bennettc14 said:


> Just cancelled my Sub 300 Caribbean on bracelet if anyone was looking.


Pretty sure mine was someone's cancellation.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

mattcantwin said:


> Pretty sure mine was someone's cancellation.


It was mine. I decided that it is the Searambler that I really want.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

I can understand why people are canceling their orders. Buying from JS isn’t for everybody. It takes a special kind of person to order from JS. A WIS with grit. Or PayPal. But a PayPal account with grit.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

I've ordered a few watches from Joma. All have been just fine, and arrived promptly. I think I'm still here now solely for the entertainment value. Oh, and I really do _like_ the Sub 200. Well, in theory, since I don't have one and have never actually seen a live one. It's just, if I can get it for $725 rather than $995, that makes a difference. Though, at my hourly rates, I've blown through far more than that $270 on this thread alone! So it's probably all in my head. 

Wouldn't have been nearly as much fun ordering from Doxa USA back in February, now, would it?


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

mattcantwin said:


> I've been following this thread all along.
> 
> Just caved and placed an order.


This is funny. I had this one in my box earlier today and then took it out. You snapped it right up, lol.


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

ean10775 said:


> It was mine. I decided that it is the Searambler that I really want.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Someone grabbed the Caribbean. I wonder how many orders have been placed and then cancelled at Jomashop with these Doxa and how that compares to other watches they sell.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

I'm still waiting for a certain Sub 200 to show up in the list, but, I think my wait is in vain.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Wow I can't believe I found an entire thread full of apes like me on these Jomashop Doxa blowouts. Ordered a Sub 300 Divingstar about a week ago. Will update here if it actually arrives, and if it doesn't I'll just stop being poor and order one from Mayors or WoS 💀

Btw you can get $100 off at Mayors with an email code. My first thought was that it could have been them who sold their overstock to Joma, but if Joma says they get all of their watches from overseas ADs then that probably isn't the case.


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## Delirious (Aug 17, 2014)

So I’m trying to get up to speed here on this. I read the 1st ten pages of this thread and the last two pages but after that I’m struggling. 

Has anyone received anything yet? It looks like everyone is waiting currently. It’s a fascinating story for sure. I’m tempted to put an order in for a Sub 300 Carbon. It’s a big discount on one of those. Well worth having. 

Cheers,
Delirious.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Delirious said:


> Has anyone received anything yet?


Nope. But all waiting with bated breath. The first one to get their order is going to go down in WUS history.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Delirious said:


> I’m tempted to put an order in for a Sub 300 Carbon. It’s a big discount on one of those. Well worth having.


I have one (US Divers Sharkhunter) and love it. I used to have a Professional, but sold it to get the US Divers LE. I think at $2850 that's about the upper end of what one should pay. I really want the new Whitepearl, but I'm going to wait until some come on the secondary market. I don't want it at just under $4k.


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## Delirious (Aug 17, 2014)

drmdwebb said:


> I have one (US Divers Sharkhunter) and love it. I used to have a Professional, but sold it to get the US Divers LE. I think at $2850 that's about the upper end of what one should pay. I really want the new Whitepearl, but I'm going to wait until some come on the secondary market. I don't want it at just under $4k.


Yes, the combo I’m looking for is a Sub 300 aquamarine in steel and a Sub 300 Carbon in white pearl. I think that should scrach my Doxa itch and is also why I haven’t ordered the sub 300 carbon on JS yet as it’s not really the carbon one I want. But it is a tempting price. 

Cheers,
Delirious.


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

I've been stalking this thread for a while. I purchased one of these in Feb. Figure I've got nothing to lose.  I sold my Doxa 300 professional last year and have regretted it everyday since. So I'm just re-buying what I already gave up once.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Assuming they show up, since these are essentially watches that a seller wasn’t able to move, I wonder if they are going to be the older models with orange rather than color-matched Jenny fish on the crowns. I always wanted a Searambler so for that color it doesn’t matter, but I’ve also really warmed to the Aquamarine, but I don’t think I’d want one with the orange crown.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

ean10775 said:


> Assuming they show up, since these are essentially watches that a seller wasn’t able to move, I wonder if they are going to be the older models with orange rather than color-matched Jenny fish on the crowns. I always wanted a Searambler so for that color it doesn’t matter, but I’ve also really warmed to the Aquamarine, but I don’t think I’d want one with the orange crown.


I have one of the orange crown Aquas on the beads of rice. It really isn't something all that incongruent with the rest of the watch. If it was on the matching strap, however, it might be hard to get past.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> I have one of the orange crown Aquas on the beads of rice. It really isn't something all that incongruent with the rest of the watch. If it was on the matching strap, however, it might be hard to get past.


For me I think it really is only an issue on the Aquamarine or Divingstar. The other colors all incorporate orange elsewhere. I get a Miami Dolphins vibe with the Aquamarine. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Joma now says "Shipping in 1-3 days."


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

1-3 days; what’s the word I’m thinking of…








…couldn’t have said it better myself


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

I placed my order and Jomashop the last time it was 1-3 days and then they were taken off the site and then came back in with a 3-5 week delivery time. Hopefully better luck this time around and the same thing doesn’t happen.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> I placed my order and Jomashop the last time it was 1-3 days and then they were taken off the site and then came back in with a 3-5 week delivery time. Hopefully better luck this time around and the same thing doesn’t happen.


Don't you JINX us


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## Viseguy (Jul 1, 2018)

BobMartian said:


> Maybe WoS is waiting on their JS order


Nope. Turns out they were confused by my apartment number.  Exchanged emails, and it was here the next day. (Joke photo.)


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Has anyone else called Joma... sat on hold and listened to the recorded loop about how they describe their high level of service and thought... "That is is exactly opposite of what a customer gets from buying from Joma."

I suppose the recording would be super boring if you had to hear them say ".. Price... You get the best price when you buy from Joma.."... Nothing else...

*Monday morning department meeting highlights from Joma:*

-Our phone lines may or may not be down but its a great excuse for providing ****ty response time to customer calls.
-Our Chat hasn't worked in months but we encourage its use it because our phones are down.
-Our phones are actually fine, we are woefully understaffed and undertrained if a customer is willing to listen to our crappy recorded loop long enough (30-45 minutes) they will reach a human who literally has no factual information about orders placed.
-Our supply Chain has no idea what they have purchased, where its coming from or when its going to be in. Just hold on to "Its in Customs now".. Its vague.
-Our order fulfillment department gets there data from supply chain and has no idea when when your order will actually ship but feel confidant that it falls somewhere between 1-3 days and 4-5 weeks because those are the predetermined lead times programmed in the web page.
-Offer free upgraded expedited shipping and $50.00 off orders over $1000.00 in the name of customer satisfaction to any customer willing to wait long enough to talk to a human, then tell them you will be sending an updated invoice to their email... but never do.

Almost the weekend guys!

Happy 1-3 days shipping!


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

Anyone notice Doxa prices have gone up quite a bit on jomashop today? 

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

rhaykal said:


> Anyone notice Doxa prices have gone up quite a bit on jomashop today?
> 
> Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


Yup. Looks like retail prices listed then a 10% discount.

Today’s price is a lot higher than the price I and others who ordered before, agreed to pay. Will Joma:
1. Honor the original prices for our orders, and sell the remaining stock from today forward at 10% below retail?
2. Send us all e-mails stating the price has increased and we can either pay the higher price or cancel our orders?
3. Say nothing and charge our cards the new, higher price? Or
4. Cancell all our previous orders and start from scratch with all Doxa stock at the new higher price?

I am thinking Joma will do either 2. or 4., with 4. being more likely. This is looking to me like Joma, the dealer or distributor that unloaded the stock, and Doxa, came to an agreement to work this out.

Since no one’s card has yet been charged, I suspect Joma can do this with only a slight blemish to their reputation.

Well, gang, whether it be option 2. or option 4. I’m going to be out.

Think someone here already dubbed this “Doxagate,” and it fits. Man, what a saga!

EDIT: My bad. ean pointed out they added 1500Ts. This is correct. The previously “sold” stock has not been relisted, far as I can tell.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

rhaykal said:


> Anyone notice Doxa prices have gone up quite a bit on jomashop today?
> 
> Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


They also added a bunch of 1500T models. I wonder if the Doxa shipment came in and they got some watches they didn’t think they were going to get.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Maybe I won't just return the pieces I bought beyond what I actually wanted... assuming they honor the price I paid in February... It IS Joma...


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Has anyone had Joma increase the price on them once the watch came in? I’ve never heard of something like that with online retail. I would think that if a product was ordered for a certain price that price would be honored even if the price has gone up since.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

This thread just keeps on giving 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Day 62 - The plot thickens


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> Has anyone had Joma increase the price on them once the watch came in? I’ve never heard of something like that with online retail. I would think that if a product was ordered for a certain price that price would be honored even if the price has gone up since.


All 3 of mine are still showing at the price I paid. I don't believe historically when I've waited for long term orders from Joma the prices have ever changed.I don't know if there's any loophole that they have in not actually charging our cards or not. I will say with my AMX, the funds show against my balance for a week or so after the purchase. Don't know if that means anything or not at this point...

At 10% I'm out though.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> All 3 of mine are still showing at the price I paid. I don't believe historically when I've waited for long term orders from Joma the prices have ever changed.I don't know if there's any loophole that they have in not actually charging our cards or not. I will say with my AMX, the funds show against my balance for a week or so after the purchase. Don't know if that means anything or not at this point...
> 
> At 10% I'm out though.


Agreed, a 10% discount isn’t worth the lack of a manufacturers warranty to me.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Interesting the prices have all gone up. I agree with the above. At the current asking price, I’ll buy from an AD. 

I think Joma would expose themselves from a legal perspective if they cancel our standing orders or charge us differently than what we originally agreed to. 

I think Joma is a New York based business and consumer protection laws would come into play.


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

You know Joma is watching this thread which is why they jacked up the price. I say cancel all orders and stick it to them. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

so just now... there's now pieces at 26% off... 15% off and the cheaper pieces are 10% off....

what a SH*T SHOW!!


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> so just now... there's now pieces at 26% off... 15% off and the cheaper pieces are 10% off....
> 
> what a SH*T SHOW!!


The 15% and 26% discounts may have been in from the get go today. I only looked at the watches that had 10% off.

The real question is, will anything ship by close of business tomorrow (Friday)? That’s my self imposed bail out date.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BigBluefish said:


> The 15% and 26% discounts may have been in from the get go today. I only looked at the watches that had 10% off.
> 
> The real question is, will anything ship by close of business tomorrow (Friday)? That’s my self imposed bail out date.


what I spoke to the rep on Monday, she told me nothing was going to be shipping this week even though thats what the web page stated. Is that accurate or is it her way of under promsing and over delivering with a Friday afternoon tracking number?


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> what I spoke to the rep on Monday, she told me nothing was going to be shipping this week even though thats what the web page stated. Is that accurate or is it her way of under promsing and over delivering with a Friday afternoon tracking number?


I’ll bet it means nothing ships.

At this point, I imagine they are hoping we early orderers will give up and cancel our orders, so our watches can be returned to stock and offered for sale at these new higher prices.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BigBluefish said:


> I’ll bet it means nothing ships.
> 
> At this point, I imagine they are hoping we early orderers will give up and cancel our orders, so our watches can be returned to stock and offered for sale at these new higher prices.


Well Squale did just come out with a forged carbon piece thats like $1300.00.... I mean... in my mind the money is already spent... SOOOooooo


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Mother’s Day sale is only 10% off!? Guess I’ll have to give Mom a Seestern Sub.


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

Just got off the phone with Jomas. Shipping early next week


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

ie_benitex said:


> Just got off the phone with Jomas. Shipping early next week


Hmmmm.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

ie_benitex said:


> Just got off the phone with Jomas. Shipping early next week


That’s great. I get to explain to my wife how I bought a $2k watch for myself for Mothers Day


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> That’s great. I get to explain to my wife how I bought a $2k watch for myself for Mothers Day


Well, at least I only bought a $1,300 watch, but then again, I did buy two of them.


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

Ryeguy said:


> Well, at least I only bought a $1,300 watch, but then again, I did buy two of them.


Obviously, one is for your wife.


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## 19thnervousbreakdown (Dec 1, 2021)

BigBluefish said:


> “Fool me once, shame on you.
> Fool me twice, **** it, I’m buying an Aquastar.”


😂😂😂😂😂👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

Not only is the new 10-15% off a joke, they are either incompetent or lying about prices. The 1500T I was looking at is $2*3*90 on the Doxa website. Meanwhile Joma has it as "originally $2*4*90". Sure thing buddy


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> Not only is the new 10-15% off a joke, they are either incompetent or lying about prices. The 1500T I was looking at is $2*3*90 on the Doxa website. Meanwhile Joma has it as "originally $2*4*90". Sure thing buddy


In general, whomever is selling them the products is likely required to provide them a price file of MSRP. I doubt its protocol to cross check them one at a time against the brands web page. If its like the pricing team in my company, its filled with data people, not enthusiasts for the product


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> In general, whomever is selling them the products is likely required to provide them a price file of MSRP. I doubt its protocol to cross check them one at a time against the brands web page. If its like the pricing team in my company, its filled with data people, not enthusiasts for the product


Agreed. Just think of the variety of products offered by Joma. I picked up a pair of Costa sunglasses from them a while back. They were recently pushing a Burberry sale according to the endless emails they spam my inbox with. They sell such a wide spectrum of products, it would be challenging to know all the details of everything. 

Joma employee’s (like many watch store employees I’ve met) aren’t watch enthusiasts. They are more focused on how low they can buy a product for and how much they think they can sell it for. It is all about the margin.

I think the Doxa sales price recent adjustment is an example of their ignorance of the nuances of certain item’s pricing. With all our calls, inquiries, and website interest, I’m sure someone at Joma said “we priced these too low, bump everything up!”

Personally, I think the price adjustment was a mistake and they hit the nail on the head with 300T’s at $1,300. At the current asking price, I’d rather go direct through an AD. I’m guessing many of us share this same sentiment and the remaining stock will sit until Joma adjusts the price once more.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Agreed. Just think of the variety of products offered by Joma. I picked up a pair of Costa sunglasses from them a while back. They were recently pushing a Burberry sale according to the endless emails they spam my inbox with. They sell such a wide spectrum of products, it would be challenging to know all the details of everything.
> 
> Joma employee’s (like many watch store employees I’ve met) aren’t watch enthusiasts. They are more focused on how low they can buy a product for and how much they think they can sell it for. It is all about the margin.
> 
> ...


Ageed 100%. I've asked it before tongue in cheek, but what is it that makes a sub 200 $900.00 "less" of a watch than the 300T when on paper, they really spec out to be the same watch. In all reality, by their own admission in the case of the white pearl 600, the ceramic insert costs more. Any predetemined tooling costs associated with the 300T are long paid off. 

We are buying into the style and namesake. We all know there are far better spec'd Swiss watches for less money. We're paying for the marketing and I agree Joma found the sweet spot initially.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

As of 9:30 EDT Joma still says shipping in 1-3 days. 

Didn’t they say that 4 days ago?



ie_benitex said:


> Just got off the phone with Jomas. Shipping early next week


Well, I’m kinda up against it. I was gonna bail
tomorrow if Joma delayed again. But now we have official iron-clad take it to the bank word from Joma that they will ship NEXT week. 

Oooohhhhh….


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BigBluefish said:


> As of 9:30 EDT Joma still says shipping in 1-3 days.
> 
> Didn’t they say that 4 days ago?
> 
> ...


Yeah, next week is what I was told Monday of this week... The agent said it was possible they would ship by Friday but highly unlikely.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

BigBluefish said:


> As of 9:30 EDT Joma still says shipping in 1-3 days.
> 
> Didn’t they say that 4 days ago?
> 
> ...


I for one will give you a pass on your self-imposed bail out date. Coupled with the price increase on Joma’s site, the addition of new listings for the 1500 and some reported communication that the watches will ship next week this feels like it is actually going to happen, so hanging on for another seven days seems like a wise idea to me. If after that we get the runaround from Joma or the shipping date estimates get pushed out again, consider bailing at that point.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

BigBluefish said:


> As of 9:30 EDT Joma still says shipping in 1-3 days.
> 
> Didn’t they say that 4 days ago?
> 
> ...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

until next week when we move it 7-10 days down the road in hopes that we get our watches at the poreviously advertised purchase price... when we hang on with blind faith.....


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

ean10775 said:


> I for one will give you a pass on your self-imposed bail out date. Coupled with the price increase on Joma’s site, the addition of new listings for the 1500 and some reported communication that the watches will ship next week this feels like it is actually going to happen, so hanging on for another seven days seems like a wise idea to me. If after that we get the runaround from Joma or the shipping date estimates get pushed out again, consider bailing at that point.


We've all gone months. Two more weeks is just a drop in the bucket.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> until next week when we move it 7-10 days down the road in hopes that we get our watches at the poreviously advertised purchase price... when we hang on with blind faith.....


Loving your optimism


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> Loving your optimism


Blind Faith+Purchase Price=Optimism


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> until next week when we move it 7-10 days down the road in hopes that we get our watches at the poreviously advertised purchase price... when we hang on with blind faith.....



Day 63 as the stomach churns


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)




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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

I may have been one of the last to roll the dice and make a purchase.


I realize for many others the wait has been painful.


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## daveyoha (Jan 22, 2016)

Had a similarly long and ambiguous waiting experience with joma for a hamilton a few months back. It was a painfully uninformed process, but it did eventually get to me. After a couple of calls (and a LOT of hold time) the shipping was expedited once it was in warehouse.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Whats the over under any of us get tracking numbers this week as promised last week.... and 6 weeks ago...


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

STARSTELLA said:


> Whats the over under any of us get tracking numbers this week as promised last week.... and 6 weeks ago...


Over under doesn't apply here... I'd say you getting a tracking number this week would be around ±275.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

100% tracking numbers are imminent. Within 2- 3 weeks. About 6 weeks from a month from tomorrow. And that’s a Jomashop promise.


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

30min on hold and gave up. Anyone call and get through for an update? 

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


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## watchcando (Aug 6, 2016)

I just got off of the phone with a JS rep. She said that they have not yet received the Doxa watches and when pressed would not give a direct answer as to when they are expected.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

watchcando said:


> I just got off of the phone with a JS rep. She said that they have not yet received the Doxa watches and when pressed would not give a direct answer as to when they are expected.


LOL. I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. It's like deja vu all over again. Always tomorrow.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Well, this definitely deserves a chapter if I ever do a new Doxa book


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## watchcando (Aug 6, 2016)

watchcando said:


> I just got off of the phone with a JS rep. She said that they have not yet received the Doxa watches and when pressed would not give a direct answer as to when they are expected.


To hedge my bets, I recently pulled the trigger on a new Certina PH500M orange at a nice price. I’m very happy with it. If the Doxa shows up, great. If not, great.


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## NS1 (May 12, 2015)

I was tempted to post, "I got a tracking number!!!" as a joke, but then thought, no, that's just plain mean. Leave these folks alone in this never-ending JS loop; they've suffered enough.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

On the positive side (JK), on Doxa's website, the Divingstar 1500T is listed at $2390, but on JS, they list it as RRP $2490 and 15 percent off at 2116.50 (reference 881.10.361.10). So the actual percentage off, based on what you can get it from Doxa, is only 11%, not 15% as advertised by JS.

It just gets more interesting by the minute.

Maybe this has been highlighted already (you know, 43 pages), and if so, sorry for the duplication.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

watchcando said:


> I just got off of the phone with a JS rep. She said that they have not yet received the Doxa watches and when pressed would not give a direct answer as to when they are expected.


But, but … how can this be? It says right there on the website where you can place an order for the Sub 200 Searambler that it will ship in 1-3 days!


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

When something is too good to be true, it usually always is. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

BigBluefish said:


> But, but … how can this be? It says right there on the website where you can place an order for the Sub 200 Searambler that it will ship in 1-3 days!


You fail to spot that they don’t specify a particular planet for this measurement!
It’s looking like they are currently working on Mercury days… 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

rhaykal said:


> 30min on hold and gave up. Anyone call and get through for an update?
> 
> Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


This makes sense that only one person is answering calls. It is probably all hands on deck over at Jomashop packing the Doxa watches to deliver in 1-3 days.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

BigBluefish said:


> But, but … how can this be? It says right there on the website where you can place an order for the Sub 200 Searambler that it will ship in 1-3 days!


Yes, but the catch is, they don't specify which 1-3 days it will ship.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

The funny/not funny and kind of annoying part of this is that as completely unprofessional this is, since they aren't charging any of us upfront, we have literally nothing to stand on in terms of consumer protection. Especially those of us (which is most I presume) who bought before the price increase. I would almost bet the price increase served a number of purposes.
-Maintain commitment from those who agreed to buy almost indefinitely in many cases.
-Higher profitability on the watches should they actually come in.




-


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> The funny/not funny and kind of annoying part of this is that as completely unprofessional this is, since they aren't charging any of us upfront, we have literally nothing to stand on in terms of consumer protection. Especially those of us (which is most I presume) who bought before the price increase. I would almost bet the price increase served a number of purposes.
> -Maintain commitment from those who agreed to buy almost indefinitely in many cases.
> -Higher profitability on the watches should they actually come in.
> 
> ...


I don’t think It was intentional on Joma’s part with regard to keeping those with orders holding onto them lest they lose the discounted price should they cancel, but you’re right that it probably will work out that way. 

Joma’s prices change all the time based on their promotions for various holidays and other things. As someone mentioned before, Joma sells a ton more than just watches so I doubt it is so nefarious with regard to Doxa alone. I bet if you looked around at other watches on the site that had been offered at more of a discount, some of them have probably increased as well. Or maybe Joma isnt getting the price they originally thought they were for these pieces from the supplier so they reduced the discount on the watches that hadn’t sold to make up for that. Or maybe in time we’ll see them go back down in price in line with the next Joma promotion. We’ll just have to wait and see.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Yeah, not much to complain about at this point.

“Hey we might get some watches!”
“OK, great. I’ll buy one for $X!”
“Thanks, we’ll let you know when they come in, you can pay us then.”
“OK, cool.”










“Now, show me on your credit card where the bad company that didn’t charge your account hurt you.”


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Exactly what I was getting at.... we can spend 30-45 minutes on hold to hear todays excuse that is completely fabricated and has no roots in truth... Maybe complain about crappy business practices to someone who doesn't likely care and won't relay the sentiment to those def ears in middle management anyway. Joma is so bad at shipping something that none of their customers actually "Need"... 

44 pages later will still are wondering if we.ll get tracking this week


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> The funny/not funny and kind of annoying part of this is that as completely unprofessional this is, since they aren't charging any of us upfront, we have literally nothing to stand on in terms of consumer protection. Especially those of us (which is most I presume) who bought before the price increase. I would almost bet the price increase served a number of purposes.
> -Maintain commitment from those who agreed to buy almost indefinitely in many cases.
> -Higher profitability on the watches should they actually come in.
> 
> ...


I might argue that consumer protection point.

Then again, I really don't care that much. If they notify me that my previous purchase agreement is null and void and the new price for the watches is $300 more, I'll simply cancel the order.

I'm not certain they can actually charge us more than the credit card authorized amount. I'm pretty sure AMEX / PayPal wouldn't allow that to happen.

I think the only risk is for our orders to be cancelled.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

As an aside, the folks complaining about this Joma fiasco could never make it on the MKii forum!


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Some buyers have been charged. Joma stated in their order update email “Also note that Amazon Payments and Visa Pay orders are pre-charged before the order is shipped.”


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Ryeguy said:


> As an aside, the folks complaining about this Joma fiasco could never make it on the MKii forum!


In some ways, it’s even worse than being a Yema* customer. At least with Yema, you’ve actually got a watch before you start complaining and getting a 3 month runaround from customer service.

Experience Jomashop! All the joys of Yema, without the watch.

*Or Doxa, or your current personally disfavored brand-of-the-month.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

I waited 14 months for a Hulk and will probably wait 2+ years for my 116508 . This wait will be a cake walk in comparison


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

WRXtranceformed said:


> I waited 14 months for a Hulk and will probably wait 2+ years for my 116508 . This wait will be a cake walk in comparison


Unless it never comes


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> I might argue that consumer protection point.
> 
> Then again, I really don't care that much. If they notify me that my previous purchase agreement is null and void and the new price for the watches is $300 more, I'll simply cancel the order.
> 
> ...


Thats actually a good point. Maybe they legally CAN'T charge us more than what the card was authorized for. I was thinking by not charging us it was keeping the window open to charge more when (IF) they came in. lol

Who knows... the 67 days of speculation of conspiracies with you gents is worth the price of admission


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

At this point, Joma is probably saying, "We should have just waited until those effing Doxa arrived to put them on the site!" Well, at least that's what I'm saying.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ticktocker said:


> At this point, Joma is probably saying, "We should have just waited until those effing Doxa arrived to put them on the site!" Well, at least that's what I'm saying.


OR... We should have pulled them off for good the first time the shipment was "delayed"... 

We'll likely never know the whole story, but we all know with even the slowest international shipping you can get just about anything anyplace in the world in 5-6 weeks.... and you know cases and cases of Doxa watches were not shipped economy surface shipping from the Middle East. 

So what changed?


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

New update in the ****show that is Jomashop! Finally was able to get through to a representative. Was told they are still not in the warehouse and that they were expected yesterday or today. The representative still believes they will ship this week. I don't think he appreciated it when I just laughed at him in response. The waiting game continues! 

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

rhaykal said:


> New update in the ****show that is Jomashop! Finally was able to get through to a representative. Was told they are still not in the warehouse and that they were expected yesterday or today. The representative still believes they will ship this week. I don't think he appreciated it when I just laughed at him in response. The waiting game continues!
> 
> Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


"Expected"...

Lets all talk about expectations for a minute....No seriously DON'T!


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

I've not even ordered one and I'm chewing my fingernails 😂😂


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Ha, ha, ha. Now that made me chuckle hard. I'm with you. I just want the guys to get their watches as a mark of persistence and faith if nothing else .



Seikonut1967 said:


> I've not even ordered one and I'm chewing my fingernails 😂😂


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Ha, ha, ha. Now that made me chuckle hard. I'm with you. I just want the guys to get their watches as a mark of persistence and faith if nothing else .


I just want us to get them for what we were asked to and agreed to pay for them.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Regardless of how this story concludes, we WIS will never forget those who ordered a 26% off Joma Doxa. #NeverForget


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Day 67 of the Joma/Doxa aka Joxa saga. Starting to feel a bit like the Iran hostage crisis of '79.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> Day 67 of the Joma/Doxa aka Joxa saga. Starting to feel a bit like the Iran hostage crisis of '79.


Joma-Gate... Doxa-Gate?


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

It's “Doxagate.”
Anyone notice this started just about the same day as the Russia / Ukraine war?
Maybe it's Putin who's got the Doxas?
Or... Zelenskyy?


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> Joma-Gate... Doxa-Gate?


I don’t know that this really rises to the level of a “-gate” does it? I don’t believe this is really a scandal. How about Doxapalooza…


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> I don’t know that this really rises to the level of a “-gate” does it? I don’t believe this is really a scandal. How about Doxapalooza…


I suppose its only a "gate" inside the walls of Doxa... it really is just a drunken festival with loud music for all of us!


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> I don’t know that this really rises to the level of a “-gate” does it? I don’t believe this is really a scandal. How about Doxapalooza…


Doxageddon
The Doxagone


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Doxa marketing jumped on here and said their piece. Wouldn't it be epic if Jomashop chimed in and gave their side? 
Would never happen, but that would make this thread so epic


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

WRXtranceformed said:


> Doxa marketing jumped on here and said their piece. Wouldn't it be epic if Jomashop chimed in and gave their side?
> Would never happen, but that would make this thread so epic


if were honest... we are all waiting for a Doxa we bought from the Kenny Powers of watch sellers...


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

Next trash update. Got through again to a representative. This time she claims Doxas are still not in stock and it won't be shipping this week and that they are still waiting on updates from receiving department. Funny thing, I could hear representatives in the background saying the word Doxa too.... Anyone here call this morning? Haha

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

rhaykal said:


> Next trash update. Got through again to a representative. This time she claims Doxas are still not in stock and it won't be shipping this week and that they are still waiting on updates from receiving department. Funny thing, I could hear representatives in the background saying the word Doxa too.... Anyone here call this morning? Haha
> 
> Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


.... Challenge accepted....


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I just got off the phone with an agent. I'm pretty sure I've spoken to her before. I was very polite and explained I was really just looking for a realistic update and reminded her that the site has shown ships in 1-3 days for about the last two weeks.

She told me that the shipment had not been delivered yet, they were "expected late last week or early this week" but she still remained confidant that many will ship this week. She threw out the "must be stuck in customs theory." She did go on to assure me that the price that was preauthorized on our cards is all that we would be charged and that was viewed as a sale. Joma could not change that price.... including the free upgraded shipping that had been applied to my orders after my multiple calls  (her words, not mine)

Her supervisor was not at her desk but promised to call me back with some sort of an update today. 

Side note: blocking your number from a cell phone does not work when calling a toll free line. (thanks google) she answered my call and addressed me by name.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

For those who remember the Pre Fab Four.

The Ruttles - Living in Hope

I think it is this threads theme song


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

SOOOOooooooooooo..........

I just got this in my email from Joma in regard to our beloved Doxa orders...


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Which of the three suggestions did you reply with? Or did you write your own?


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

LOL. I'm hereby declaring this is now the Sisyphus thread.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> Which of the three suggestions did you reply with? Or did you write your own?


I accept that no matter what my response it would have fallen on def (or at minimum uninformed) ears. I chose not to respond.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

STARSTELLA said:


> SOOOOooooooooooo..........
> 
> I just got this in my email from Joma in regard to our beloved Doxa orders...
> 
> View attachment 16609422


You would think that they would either update their website to remove the ‘Ships in 1 -3 days’ claim which they seem to realise is nonsense - or simply remove the entire Doxa offer until they physically hold them.
As it is they are just looking like…    


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

adg31 said:


> You would think that they would either update their website to remove the ‘Ships in 1 -3 days’ claim which they seem to realise is nonsense - or simply remove the entire Doxa offer until they physically hold them.
> As it is they are just looking like…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I work for a large online retailer and depending on the type of systems they have in place, it can take 24 hours for that type of an update. Assuming this is a real and accurate change, I bet we see something tomorrow.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> SOOOOooooooooooo..........
> 
> I just got this in my email from Joma in regard to our beloved Doxa orders...
> 
> View attachment 16609422


Seems Kamela knows how to keep the customers off her azz. Just tell them a month instead of this weekly BS


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

This is almost too funny at this point. 

Earlier I was wondering which of my current collection I was going to sell in order to maintain my "one in / one out" watch policy.

Now, I'm just hanging in there for the fun of it. My birthday is in August. Maybe the Joma Doxa will be a birthday present. Or, maybe it'll be a Labor Day surprise.... who knows?


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)




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## SenorPedro (Apr 18, 2013)

STARSTELLA said:


> I work for a large online retailer and depending on the type of systems they have in place, it can take 24 hours for that type of an update. Assuming this is a real and accurate change, I bet we see something tomorrow.


Jomashop site just went to "ships in 3-5 weeks"...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Maybe this is like the old wives tale..."a watched pot never boils"...

I think I'll cancel one or two of my orders and just "forget" about the one and move on until it actually lands at Joma.

BUT...

I wonder if we all came together and offered a group buy to WOS if they would be able to come close to the Joma price. Half kidding.... but am I?


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Looking at previously sold out items coming back onto the site I’m guessing that a few people are throwing in the towel.
SUB300 Sharkhunter on bracelet now showing as back in stock!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

adg31 said:


> Looking at previously sold out items coming back onto the site I’m guessing that a few people are throwing in the towel.
> SUB300 Sharkhunter on bracelet now showing as back in stock!
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep. And available for the new higher price as well.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> Yep. And available for the new higher price as well.


Doxa’s gotta be in on this, I think. A marketing experiment. We are now seeing the new, Doxa approved prices. Guess we’ll see if Joma moves the stock at those prices. Or, maybe we won’t.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

On the plus side, I’m off the hook in explaining that new watch I bought myself for Mothers Day


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

adg31 said:


> SUB300 Sharkhunter on bracelet now showing as back in stock!


It's not mine.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> Yep. And available for the new higher price as well.


Yup. Not for me, though.

As mentioned before, saving $250 from MSRP isn’t worth losing the factory warranty (not to mention you also have to wait for an indefinite period of time before receiving your watch). Saving up $1,650 to buy a Doxa Sub really isn’t any different than saving $1,800. If $250 really is the deciding factor for affordability, you probably should buy a nice $500 Seiko diver instead. 

Maybe the price raise by Joma wasn’t due to the increased product interest (as in “oops, we under priced these!”, but rather it was due to the fact they didn’t actually have the product in hand to sell and weren’t likely to get it soon. Maybe they actually wanted to throttle back the number of outstanding orders? 

I’m guessing Joma doesn’t like having all of us waiting (and badmouthing their business) any more than we like waiting on product. At least I wouldn’t if I owned Joma.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Yup. Not for me, though.
> 
> As mentioned before, saving $250 from MSRP isn’t worth losing the factory warranty (not to mention you also have to wait for an indefinite period of time before receiving your watch). Saving up $1,650 to buy a Doxa Sub really isn’t any different than saving $1,800. If $250 really is the deciding factor for affordability, you probably should buy a nice $500 Seiko diver instead.
> 
> ...



All Valid points.

For me.. I never planned for this buy this year, so I'll do my best to focus on the planned purchases and enjoy my collection as it stands but leave 1 or 2 of these on order knowing my purchase price will be honored just in the seemingly bleakest of chances they ever actually land in NY.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> All Valid points.
> 
> For me.. I never planned for this buy this year, so I'll do my best to focus on the planned purchases and enjoy my collection as it stands but leave 1 or 2 of these on order knowing my purchase price will be honored just in the seemingly bleakest of chances they ever actually land in NY.


I’m in the same boat. I’ve wanted a Doxa for quite some time but wasn’t considering it in the near future until I saw the sale. I’ll leave my order open. I did order a Seestern, which I now regret but I’ll try it on and then sell it. I’ve also got one of the new Q Timex GMTs arriving today that will serve as a fun summer watch since the Doxa didn’t materialize.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

The original 25% off Jomashop Doxa sale prices are where Doxa should have been pricing their watches in the first place. That's what finally got me off of the fence to snag a Sub 300.


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## ParkinNJ (Apr 23, 2008)

Update from Jomashop on my order placed in Feb ... they don't have the watches on-hand and expect a 3 to 5 week delay.


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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

Waiting for my 300T


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

Or, Jomashop are withholding the stock and hoping that eventually everyone cancels, so they can readvertise them at the higher price. 
Although the suggestion (by STARSTELLA) of a group buy from WOS wasn't a bad idea and maybe one that should be considered if WOS are willing to give the group a decent discount .


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## Semper Jeep (Jan 11, 2013)

ParkinNJ said:


> Update from Jomashop on my order placed in Feb ... they don't have the watches on-hand and expect a 3 to 5 week delay.
> View attachment 16611126


Got the same email.

I've currently got no plans to cancel the order for my black Sub 300.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

April 5:

Thank you again for your purchase from Jomashop.com! It is our responsibility to keep you up-to-date about your order with us.

Upon reviewing your order, it seems that one or more item(s) you have ordered is not physically in our warehouse at this time:

Product Availability: 3 to 4 Weeks



May 5:

Upon reviewing your order, it seems that one or more item(s) you have ordered is not physically in our warehouse at this time:

Product Availability: 3 - 5 Weeks



I wonder what to expect June 5?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Seikonut1967 said:


> Or, Jomashop are withholding the stock and hoping that eventually everyone cancels, so they can readvertise them at the higher price.
> Although the suggestion (by STARSTELLA) of a group buy from WOS wasn't a bad idea and maybe one that should be considered if WOS are willing to give the group a decent discount .


would be interesting to know of the 100 people here who have been part of the discussion over these 47 pages and 70K views... who all purchased them....


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

STARSTELLA said:


> would be interesting to know of the 100 people here who have been part of the discussion over these 47 pages and 70K views... who all purchased them....


Yep; someone should post a poll asking who's a participant and who's a spectator.


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

mattcantwin said:


> Yep; someone should post a poll asking who's a participant and who's a spectator.


I'm a spectator. Although the amount of time I've invested following this, I've probably experienced all the emotions of those who have actually got physical orders in 😂😂😂


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

Seikonut1967 said:


> I'm a spectator. Although the amount of time I've invested following this, I've probably experienced all the emotions of those who have actually got physical orders in 😂😂😂


same here


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## SenorPedro (Apr 18, 2013)

STARSTELLA said:


> would be interesting to know of the 100 people here who have been part of the discussion over these 47 pages and 70K views... who all purchased them....


Participant. I've got two in queue... still holding, but have been close to cancelling once.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Participant until recently.

I'll carry the scars forever.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

I'm in it to win it for an under-$1900 Sub 300, even if it takes them until next year to deliver it


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

Got this email today. 


Thank you again for your purchase from Jomashop.com! It is our responsibility to keep you up-to-date about your order with us.

Upon reviewing your order, it seems that one or more item(s) you have ordered is not physically in our warehouse at this time:

Order Number: M2XXXXX

Z-SCMDT - Doxa Sub 300 Professional Automatic Orange Dial Men's =====> Product Availability: 3 - 5 Weeks


Jomashop.com has already backordered these item(s) for you. The estimated time it will take to ship this item out of our warehouse is posted above.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

I was in but then canceled my order. I’m spectating now because this is the best thing since the hogs ate grandpa.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

#NeverCancel


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

The 300 Pro on bracelet just became available to purchase. Only 10% discount and 3-5 week claimed wait though. Not really worth it when you can get $100 (or maybe more) off at an AD


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Just cancelled my 300T Sharkhunter and Searambler both on the strap if anyone is after the 10% with the added $50.00 off for anything over $1000.00... which is overall about 13% discount off retail....

Just riding it out for my 300T Aquamarine on the BOR....


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## Greelycl (Apr 17, 2020)

I flirted with a Sub 200 (Yellow), but it 'sold out' before I pulled the trigger. Now I feel better that I'm not stuck while simultaneously feeling jealous that I 'missed out'


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

Just curious, was anyone here charged sales tax on their Jomashop order?


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

bobs.divers said:


> Just curious, was anyone here charged sales tax on their Jomashop order?


Yes I was. I’m in Ohio so it brought the price of a Sub300 on bracelet to just under $2k. ($1998 if I recall correctly)


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

ean10775 said:


> Yes I was. I’m in Ohio so it brought the price of a Sub300 on bracelet to just under $2k. ($1998 if I recall correctly)


Ok then only to those who ordered at the 25% off discount it would perhaps be worth the wait since Jomashop adds sales tax to all their orders. I live in Connecticut and a while ago I ordered a Tag Heuer from Jomashop and they also charged me sales tax.

I bring this up because when you order directly from the Doxa website, they only collect sales tax from orders shipped to Florida. So unless you live in FL, you most likely will not be charged sales tax. I have ordered a few pieces from them and they never charged me sales tax or shipping fees to Connecticut.

At the current Jomashop discount of 10% off MSRP on Doxas you have to add your local sales tax to your order, so out of pocket the difference will barely be 2-5% (depending on your state) from the Doxa website - plus the wait time and the repeated delays AND without manufacturer’s warranty.

At this point if it were me, I would not order from Jomashop at the current 10% off but simply buy direct from Doxa with warranty. Unless of course, you placed the order at the original 25% off discount (Which after sales tax effectively out of pocket is about 20% difference from the Doxa website) and maybe even then, to me personally, would not be worth the wait and the aggravation from the lack of communication.
Just my two cents.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Thanks. I wondered that about ordering directly from Doxa. Good to know. It’s a fair question to ask then if the Joma savings, even at the original discount is worth not getting the manufacturers warranty. For a Sub 300 that would be about $450 after sales tax is added.

It also doesn't necessarily mean that it makes sense to order from WOS even with the $100 discount they give on a first order. Direct from Doxa may get you the lowest price.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

bobs.divers said:


> Ok then only to those who ordered at the 25% off discount it would perhaps be worth the wait since Jomashop adds sales tax to all their orders. I live in Connecticut and a while ago I ordered a Tag Heuer from Jomashop and they also charged me sales tax.
> 
> I bring this up because when you order directly from the Doxa website, they only collect sales tax from orders shipped to Florida. So unless you live in FL, you most likely will not be charged sales tax. I have ordered a few pieces from them and they never charged me sales tax or shipping fees to Connecticut.
> 
> ...


I will be charged sales tax on my Sub 300 purchase heading to Virginia. But after the extra $50 off coupon, the "out of the door" price was only $56.50 more than their 25% off discount price of $1825 ($1881.50 total).
Even after I order the bracelet separately from Doxa ($290), I'm still in it for significantly less (with both the OEM strap and bracelet) than I would have been with buying just the bracelet model direct from Doxa.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

#NeverCancel


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I asked Joma for a contact of a supervisor to get a better understanding on what it takes 90 days to get these SKUs. I shot her a message and within a few hours I got a response.

From the email response I received, *I don't think we will ever see these orders filled.*

The line in her email that stands out most:

*"Joma's vender is having a difficult to obtaining the watches that Joma presold."* We all know Doxa is well aware of this situation. I have to believe that if this mystery vendor did NOT have these on the shelf, an order this size from most resellers would draw attention and to that point, Doxa would not fill the order, right?

Hence why it keeps getting bumped out....

Guys, I'm not going to cancel my last one, but I have little no faith now.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> I asked Joma for a contact of a supervisor to get a better understanding on what it takes 90 days to get these SKUs. I shot her a message and within a few hours I got a response.
> 
> From the email response I received, *I don't think we will ever see these orders filled.*
> 
> ...


So Joma presold the Doxa's that their Distributor presold to them? Doxa hadn't released anything to the Distro and they probably will not, at least at the prices that Joma advertised.


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

bobs.divers said:


> Just curious, was anyone here charged sales tax on their Jomashop order?




Well, you got me thinking; thanks.


I was charged sales tax.











I'd rather purchase through Doxa; the difference is not "crazy" over six months.

Just cancelled my order, Sub 300 Sharkhunter on bracelet.


However, I'm not racing to the Doxa site to place an order...


I'm good for now.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Has anyone ever purchased an item from Joma that wasn’t in stock and actually received it? I’ve purchased in stock items before and received the order without issues. However the 1 time I purchased an item that stated 6 weeks delivery I never received it. 

I wouldn’t give up because Joma still has the watches on their site. They have to think there is a chance they can still obtain them. #NeverCancel


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

STARSTELLA said:


> I asked Joma for a contact of a supervisor to get a better understanding on what it takes 90 days to get these SKUs. I shot her a message and within a few hours I got a response.
> 
> From the email response I received, *I don't think we will ever see these orders filled.*
> 
> ...


I could see them potentially delivering the ones that they sold for 10% discount, but if this is true it does seem pretty unlikely that they will deliver the ones that they sold for 25% off


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

BobMartian said:


> Has anyone ever purchased an item from Joma that wasn’t in stock and actually received it? I’ve purchased in stock items before and received the order without issues. However the 1 time I purchased an item that stated 6 weeks delivery I never received it.
> 
> I wouldn’t give up because Joma still has the watches on their site. They have to think there is a chance they can still obtain them. #NeverCancel


True, but they leave a lot of older/discontinued models up on their site that they never seem to sell again. Presumably just to drive more web traffic


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

BobMartian said:


> Has anyone ever purchased an item from Joma that wasn’t in stock and actually received it? I’ve purchased in stock items before and received the order without issues. However the 1 time I purchased an item that stated 6 weeks delivery I never received it.
> 
> I wouldn’t give up because Joma still has the watches on their site. They have to think there is a chance they can still obtain them. #NeverCancel


I bought a Hamilton Khaki Mechanical that was marked as ships in 2-3 weeks. I got it in or around that timeframe. Maybe a little longer. Definitely within a month though. It is a watch they normally have in stock though.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Jomashop actually added more Doxa models recently


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BobMartian said:


> Jomashop actually added more Doxa models recently


I have to guess that the number of cancellations are stacking up.

I bought something else today after cancelling my orders for my 2nd and 3rd choices.....

Thats the second time Joma updated the ship times to 5 weeks that I bought something else and left my number one choice on order....


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

Got another email from Jomo. 

3 to 5 weeks, so end of June 2022?

I'm in it now just to see what happens.

Oh, I still want the watch, but my enthusiasm for JOMO has waned slightly.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> I asked Joma for a contact of a supervisor to get a better understanding on what it takes 90 days to get these SKUs. I shot her a message and within a few hours I got a response.
> 
> From the email response I received, *I don't think we will ever see these orders filled.*
> 
> ...


That isn’t an encouraging statement for sure. The “presold” statement seems like a rookie mistake for a well established vendor such as Joma.

The way I would handle the situation if I were Joma is to offer those of us who purchased originally the opportunity to cancel our orders, giving those who choose to do so a $300 discount code for any order over $1,000. 

By giving out those special ”credits” if those Doxa’s ever do show up, those of us who had our original orders cancelled could repurchase at the same cost ($1,650 Joma price for a 300T minus the $300 discount code, minus whatever other discounts are offered at the time). 

Actually, I don’t think Joma can just independently cancel our orders unless they are absolutely certain they’ll never get the Doxa stock. For example, if they cancel my $1,300 Doxa order, then actually get their inventory next month and market them for $1,650, I think this would exposure them to consumer protection issues. I know I would want them to honor my original purchase price. 

Bottom line for me is, I‘m $0 into this, so might as well hang on for the duration. The real irony would be to actually receive a Doxa after months of waiting only to find it having some issue and needing to return it.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

It's difficult to believe that a legit business does business this way. I wonder who's running the Doxa show at Jomashop. If it wasn't that they haven't actually charged anyone, it would sounds like Bernie Madoff is in charge.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Ticktocker said:


> It's difficult to believe that a legit business does business this way. I wonder who's running the Doxa show at Jomashop. If it wasn't that they haven't actually charged anyone, it would sounds like Bernie Madoff is in charge.


I‘d bet the person who’s “running the Doxa show at Jomashop” is probably just some nameless buyer and much less nefarious than you’d think. 

I‘m guessing various brand AD’s know how to contact outlets like Jomashop and use them as a mechanism to dump unsold stock and raise capital quickly. They negotiate a bulk sale to Joma that allows them to make a bit of cash quickly for their business and still leaves enough meat on the bone to let Joma make a bit as well on their sale to us. We win by getting a luxury product at a discount (but no warranty). 

I’m guessing the AD flaked on Joma, but I’m also wondering why Joma would increase the number of models being offered for sale if their supplier isn’t dependable. That is a mistake in my mind. 

My only guess is this is a strategy by Joma to use the pre-sale orders as a way to negotiate with their current supplier (who could be demanding more money) or maybe to attempt to sign an alternate AD up as a supplier (probably at a higher price to Joma).


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

The person "running the show" as it relates to Doxa is buying and selling widgets. Nothing else. They are using a business model that is effective for larger brands that are frequently discounted all over the web or sold without a MAP, so the pricing goes seemingly unnoticed unlike the sh*t show we have been a part of.

I still hold to my feeling that we will never get any these now that I have been told that Joma's supplier was unable to get the watches. Again, Doxa is well aware of this and any out of the ordinary PO that comes in will be red flagged.

I agree with you 100% that the presale is an attempt to leverage the purchase.


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

Said it earlier, they are banking on everyone cancelling their orders, so that they can hike up the price. If Jomashop knew how popular and how quickly they'd sell out, there'd have been a bigger mark up from the get go.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Seikonut1967 said:


> Said it earlier, they are banking on everyone cancelling their orders, so that they can hike up the price. If Jomashop knew how popular and how quickly they'd sell out, there'd have been a bigger mark up from the get go.


I’m not sure that they ever sold out; at one pint they were down to around 28 lines still showing as in stock but never sold out.
That must be a concern for Doxa that they can’t sell out even with 26% off on an online retailer - at least it would be for me 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

In theory if Joma wanted to, for the "no money down" preorders I don't see why they couldn't just indefinitely delay those orders and hope more people cancel or forget about them. Or they could just cancel them altogether. Any stock that they actually do get in they could just ship it to orders that were placed at their new higher prices.
I hope that's not the case. I've bought a good number of watches over the years from JS and if my order gets canceled or stonewalled I'm going light them up.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

WIS 26%er. Either we get our discounted Doxa or we’re going without. #NeverCancel


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

mattcantwin said:


> (…)


@mattcantwin :
That’s a particularly nice pairing 

May I ask where this canvas strap is coming from?


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

paysdoufs said:


> @mattcantwin :
> That’s a particularly nice pairing
> 
> May I ask where this canvas strap is coming from?


Thanks; it's a DrunkArt canvas strap.

Unfortunately, he is not making any at the moment.

I have several; great straps.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Hey guys!

Monday update... Shipping time 2-3 weeks


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Monday update... Shipping time 2-3 weeks


Somehow, I find myself being less and less confident in their shipping estimates!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Somehow, I find myself being less and less confident in their shipping estimates!


We should just rename it "Next Bump Date"...In 2-3 weeks, Joma will bump the ETA back out to 5-6 weeks again


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> We should just rename it "Next Bump Date"...In 2-3 weeks, Joma will bump the ETA back out to 5-6 weeks again


The way I think about it, it is kind of binary at this point. Either Joma gets their expected stock and fills their orders or they cancel the entire Doxa endeavor and offer those of use with outstanding orders some kind of consolation prize (i.e. a discount code for a future purchase). 

What keeps my blood pressure on a relatively even keel throughout this process is JomaShop is based in Brooklyn, NY, meaning they are regulated under NY's consumer protection laws.

They are already (in my mind at least) skating on really thin ice. For example, read this:

"§ 5-100. Sufficient Quantities.
The retailer either must have in stock or on order, or be prepared to supply within a reasonable
time sufficient quantities of each advertised item or service to fulfill reasonably anticipated
public demand, or clearly conspicuously disclose in the advertisement any items or services of
genuinely limited availability. A retailer is not “prepared to supply” merchandise unless he has
communicated with suppliers and ascertained, prior to advertising, that the merchandise is
available to him." 

the entire statute is found here: NYC Consumer Protection Laws

I guess we can debate what "a reasonable time" is, but I'm thinking we are getting to the tail end of that definition.

This whole Doxa thing probably makes up only a tiny, fractional, percentage of JomaShop's total revenue. All it would take is a single complaint to the NYC Consumer Protection Enforcement Division to create a headache that JomaShop would definitely want to avoid.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> The way I think about it, it is kind of binary at this point. Either Joma gets their expected stock and fills their orders or they cancel the entire Doxa endeavor and offer those of use with outstanding orders some kind of consolation prize (i.e. a discount code for a future purchase).
> 
> What keeps my blood pressure on a relatively even keel throughout this process is JomaShop is based in Brooklyn, NY, meaning they are regulated under NY's consumer protection laws.
> 
> ...


The verbiage is vague at best but what Joma keeps hammering on with and is the loophole... the majority of us have never been charged a dime. I think that would negate any wrong doings in terms of consumer protection laws, right?

Emotional damage maybe holds more water... I've lost sleep with the excitement created over 26% off -$50.00 plus free upgraded shipping on my 300T.... for a total of 3 weeks every time the lead time drops to "ships in 1-3 days"..



all we can really do is laugh at the sh8t show and hope that Maybe... maybe the planets align and someone here gets a watch...


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Just to add - I've had a number of positive transactions with JomaShop in the past and I have confidence they understand NYC, NY State and Federal consumer protection laws better than I do. This isn't their first rodeo.

JomaShop made an authentic sales offer to us, as consumers. We accepted their offer. It is up to them to fulfill the offer or somehow make good on it.

The fact JomaShop is still accepting orders should give us a bit of confidence as each instance of unfair trade practice (i.e. an accepted order) is a civil penalty event. JomaShop absolutely does not want to pay a civil fine of $100 per order if they've even only taken 100 orders. A $10K fine would hurt, but the real concern (if I were JomaShop) would be a injunction that could put JomaShop out of business. 

Whenever any person has engaged in any acts or practices which constitute violations of any
provision of this subchapter or of any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder, the city may
make application to the supreme court for an order enjoining such acts or practices and for an
order granting a temporary or permanent injunction, restraining order, or other order enjoining
such acts or practices.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> The verbiage is vague at best but what Joma keeps hammering on with and is the loophole... the majority of us have never been charged a dime. I think that would negate any wrong doings in terms of consumer protection laws, right?
> 
> Emotional damage maybe holds more water... I've lost sleep with the excitement created over 26% off -$50.00 plus free upgraded shipping on my 300T.... for a total of 3 weeks every time the lead time drops to "ships in 1-3 days"..
> 
> ...


No, that isn't really a loophole. The fact we were uncharged would be their defense against providing us with civil damages.

The language for an unfair trade practice definition includes: "offering goods or services with intent not to sell them as offered". It is clear they violated the law, but they could argue the damages to the consumer were minimal at best, so the civil penalty should be the bare minimum ($50 per incident).

But, like I stated above, the civil penalty is probably not the real concern. The concern (if I were JomaShop) is whether the NYC Enforcement Division could find "repeated, multiple or persistent violation of any provision of this subchapter" which would allow them ask the Court for an order of injunction, barring them from doing business. 

I think JomaShop's continuance of accepting Doxa orders even today for a product you don't actually have would be clear evidence of a "persistent violation" if one were inclined to pursue it.

It is my opinion JomaShop really doesn't want anything to do with having to defend itself against this kind of accusation. Just think of their legal expenses for defending themselves against the City and State of NY. This thing could cost them significant money in legal and court fee's.


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## Delirious (Aug 17, 2014)

I think it is getting more speculative. The website is now showing they have stock on the Sub 300 Carbon black US Divers Aqua Lung LImted Edition and with 10% off. Pretty sure they were all sold out a while back so I don’t think Joma will be getting stock of this particular model at least. Still it says it ships in 3 - 5 weeks so there is always hope! Maybe I’ll put an order in…

CHeers,
Delirious.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

As a multi million dollar company, I'm sure they have a legal team that insures they operate well away from the consumer protection laws without any sort of liability. Theres likely a phase somewhere in the same process that negates the issue. 

I've had both positive and negative experience with the reseller. Some of which might fall in consumer protection realms, but I go back for one reason... lol... Price.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

STARSTELLA said:


> We should just rename it "Next Bump Date"...In 2-3 weeks, Joma will bump the ETA back out to 5-6 weeks again


Groundhog Day


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Maybe if this all collapses, Doxa will offer a Joma Fiasco tribute model to this watch marketing equivalent of the Wreck of the Hesperus.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> As a multi million dollar company, I'm sure they have a legal team that insures they operate well away from the consumer protection laws without any sort of liability. Theres likely a phase somewhere in the same process that negates the issue.
> 
> I've had both positive and negative experience with the reseller. Some of which might fall in consumer protection realms, but I go back for one reason... lol... Price.


I agree with you which, again, is why I'm not too worried. The fact Joma is adding to their sales page and still taking orders strongly suggests someone internally has reviewed this and allowed it to continue. Joma leadership must have a fair degree of confidence that they will eventually receive their stock. If this were going to put their business at risk in any way, Joma would've killed it months ago.

The other thing is, even with the negative reports we've heard about Joma (and in some cases personally experienced) they were all relatively isolated incidents. This Doxa thing, in contrast, involves quite a number of individuals with probably dozens (hundreds?) of orders. 

If, for example, I take 100 orders and fill 99 of them, cancelling only 1, I'm probably OK (even if the guy who got his order cancelled is upset and posts about it on WUS). 

If, however, I take 500 orders and later cancel all of them, only to offer the same product again at a new higher price, that is something that might get you in trouble. Technically, you will even get in trouble for continuing to take orders for a product you don't have. 

To be completely honest, I wouldn't be too upset if Joma just cancelled the whole thing and said "sorry, our vendor flaked and we are out of the Doxa business". I would, however, be upset if they later got back in the Doxa business except with a new, higher, selling price.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

BobMartian said:


> View attachment 16620499


I'm dead  💀


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

BobMartian said:


> View attachment 16620499


Bob,

That looks more like a gently used clearance sale on the right.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

June 3rd shipping date is the latest, although I wouldn't put too much faith in that estimate. The saga continues...


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## 03hemi (Dec 30, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> View attachment 16620499


Hey, not nice? lol
That's Willem Dafoe, one of the few in Hollywierd that's a normal person!


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> June 3rd shipping date is the latest, although I wouldn't put too much faith in that estimate. The saga continues...


You spoke to someone at Joma or that’s the estimate from the website?


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> You spoke to someone at Joma or that’s the estimate from the website?


I spoke to someone and that is what they told me. Friday, June 3rd - Monday June 6th are the predicted shipping dates.

I'm not betting a nickle on the accuracy of this prediction though. We've heard similar in the past. I just figured I'd pass along the information.


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## Heuer1983 (9 mo ago)

That’s good to hear. I’ve got a carbon Caribbean with blue strap on order with the original substantial discount. Fingers crossed.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

.... you guys know what I didn't do today?

I didn't check Joma's site for a shipping ETA update... I gotta be honest... It feels amazing. 

You have no expectations, they you're never let down!


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

“Expect nothing, and we won’t disappoint you” -Jomashop


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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> I'd love to be proven wrong but I would be shocked if any of these watches materialze from Joma at these prices. Make sure to post in this thread if you actually secure a watch from them at the advertised price.


I check in here every coupla weeks and sorry but I have to chuckle, especially at the indignant posters.

_*schadenfreude*_: enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

It could be worse... Over the same Jomashop waiting time, I could have looked at the stock market every day and watched as my 401K evaporated..... Hey, wait a minute....


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> I check in here every coupla weeks and sorry but I have to chuckle, especially at the indignant posters.
> 
> _*schadenfreude*_: enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others.


No indignation here. I wanted a Sub 200, and a couple other watches. Joma offered a screaming deal on the 200, so that was my first strike at my wannit list.

I think we were all a bit skeptical from the get go. But no money lost, so no harm dine

Looks like it won’t happen. No problem, my money happily went to another watch. I’ll get the 200 Searambler eventually, just not from Joma.

I don’t think sale & thread participants are deriving pleasure from others’ misfortune, just enjoying the preposterousness of the whole affair: Doxagate, The Doxagon, Doxageddon, whatever.


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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

BigBluefish said:


> I don’t think sale & thread participants are deriving pleasure from others’ misfortune…


Perhaps I was unclear: I used _schadenfreude_ to describe myself.


----------



## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> Perhaps I was unclear: I used _schadenfreude_ to describe myself.


I get it. I experience it often viewing lamentations on political forums. 🙂


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

This whole thing is pretty funny. 

I really only half-heartedly jumped on the bandwagon. If it works out, great. If not, no big deal. 

For the cost of admission ($0), it’s been a good distraction.


----------



## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

Flyingdoctor said:


> It could be worse... Over the same Jomashop waiting time, I could have looked at the stock market every day and watched as my 401K evaporated..... Hey, wait a minute....


Preach it brotha lol. But remember, it only a loss when you sell. This too shall pass. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

BigBluefish said:


> No indignation here. I wanted a Sub 200, and a couple other watches. Joma offered a screaming deal on the 200, so that was my first strike at my wannit list.
> 
> I think we were all a bit skeptical from the get go. But no money lost, so no harm dine
> 
> ...


I got tired of waiting and bought an Omega Seamaster 300M GMT, 50th Ann. Edition. Way more money, but a nicer watch that I ACTUALLY get wear and own for over a week now.

If the Doxa shows, it shows. I figure my credit card will get charged if it does ship, I'll know for sure then.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

JimBianchi said:


> I got tired of waiting and bought an Omega Seamaster 300M GMT, 50th Ann. Edition. Way more money, but a nicer watch that I ACTUALLY get wear and own for over a week now.
> 
> If the Doxa shows, it shows. I figure my credit card will get charged if it does ship, I'll know for sure then.


After the first reset of 5-6 weeks I grabbed a COSC Zodiac Superseawolf 68... last week annoyed me and I grabbed a Synchron Military...lol... in 3 weeks... will I have a Doxa or?


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## heineken4u (Sep 1, 2018)

JimBianchi said:


> I got tired of waiting and bought an Omega Seamaster 300M GMT, 50th Ann. Edition. Way more money, but a nicer watch that I ACTUALLY get wear and own for over a week now.
> 
> If the Doxa shows, it shows. I figure my credit card will get charged if it does ship, I'll know for sure then.


You made the right decision. 

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

JimBianchi said:


> I got tired of waiting and bought an Omega Seamaster 300M GMT, 50th Ann. Edition. Way more money, but a nicer watch that I ACTUALLY get wear and own for over a week now.
> 
> If the Doxa shows, it shows. I figure my credit card will get charged if it does ship, I'll know for sure then.


Great choice; wear it in good health just like Dirk Pitt did his Omega before discovering Doxa!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

I bought a beater to tide me over. Turns out it's an awesome watch though:


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Yes, never pay retail…unless you actually want to get the watch.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Happy to report.... at least its still 2-3 weeks and not back out to 5 again.

Although now there ar 51 different SKUs available... did THAT many of us cancel?  

Are we running short of Faith in Joma? GEEEEEEZe guys...


----------



## SenorPedro (Apr 18, 2013)

Just pulled the trigger on a private sale near-new Sub300 Searambler on bracelet for less than Joma's original sale price. My cancellation is going in and one should be popping up on Joma shortly...

Still holding on the 300T Sharkie, though...


----------



## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

STARSTELLA said:


> Although now there ar 51 different SKUs available... did THAT many of us cancel?
> 
> Are we running short of Faith in Joma? GEEEEEEZe guys...


----------



## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

SenorPedro said:


> Just pulled the trigger on a private sale near-new Sub300 Searambler on bracelet for less than Joma's original sale price. My cancellation is going in and one should be popping up on Joma shortly...
> 
> Still holding on the 300T Sharkie, though...


----------



## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> Happy to report.... at least its still 2-3 weeks and not back out to 5 again.
> 
> Although now there ar 51 different SKUs available... did THAT many of us cancel?
> 
> Are we running short of Faith in Joma? GEEEEEEZe guys...


yeah I "ran short of Faith in Joma" last month, or maybe I just lost patience. Also I just looked and the discount is only at 10% for most sub models, Might as well pay full retail without the tax and its almost the same price.... and you actually get delivery of the watch in under 4 months!


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Happy to report.... at least its still 2-3 weeks and not back out to 5 again.
> 
> Although now there ar 51 different SKUs available... did THAT many of us cancel?
> 
> Are we running short of Faith in Joma? GEEEEEEZe guys...


There is now a turquoise 300T on bracelet for sale on Joma, but 10% off isn't worth it to lose the Doxa warranty.

In my opinion, anyone who orders a Doxa from Joma at a 10% discount level is just foolish. I'm not certain why Joma even has them listed unless they are gearing up for a Father's Day sale event or something.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> There is now a turquoise 300T on bracelet for sale on Joma, but 10% off isn't worth it to lose the Doxa warranty.
> 
> In my opinion, anyone who orders a Doxa from Joma at a 10% discount level is just foolish. I'm not certain why Joma even has them listed unless they are gearing up for a Father's Day sale event or something.


OH... Yeah.. I didn't think anyone who didn't preorder months ago would still even be reading this thread 

10% off isn't even enough to sway the used values!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

on a secondary side note.. Doc's post here has 77K views... Thats just over 3x the number of views of the "Message from Doxa" post... That really does mean price and value are 3x more important to Doxa enthusiasts than the marketing blather that spews out of the keyboards from Doxa... Just sayin....


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> on a secondary side note.. Doc's post here has 77K views... Thats just over 3x the number of views of the "Message from Doxa" post... That really does mean price and value are 3x more important to Doxa enthusiasts than the marketing blather that spews out of the keyboards from Doxa... Just sayin....


That's a really interesting fact.

I always thought Doxa was kind of a "those who know, know" type brand. The only people who are going to recognize / appreciate the brand are those who are already heavily into watches. To be honest, I don't think any Doxa marketing is going to change that fact. 

I think the best thing from a market share / growth perspective to happen to Doxa recently has been the recent micro-brand "homages" and the Joma sale (which, ironically, are the two things many existing fans rail against). 

Those who buy a homage are more likely to save up for the real thing, and I'm guessing this Joma thing (if it ever materializes) will be a singular event, so those who missed out might just save up for an AD purchase.

The fact that Joma has bungled this thing so badly that we are 3 months in and still talking about it suggests Doxa should write Joma a thank you card. It had been a better brand awareness event than any sporting event Tissot has sponsored.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Here's a crazy theory....

What if Doxa corporate is dumping stock directly to Joma and it isn't coming from some disgruntled AD? 

Doxa could be jerking Joma around on the supply intentionally to encourage buyers to drop their Joma orders and buy direct, plus the Joma fiasco is definitely generating brand buzz (I am aware of it being discussed on the 2 forums I frequent). From a "viral marketing" perspective, it is rather clever with an almost zero cost to Doxa.

Joma may now be negotiating to be an "authorized" unauthorized outlet for Doxa, allowing Doxa to dump stock quickly and raise capital as needed. With only 26 or so authorized retailers, Doxa could probably use a bulk buyer who would be willing to place a big stock order on occasion. This could be why the number of line items carried by Joma is increasing, while the discount level has decreased to a nominal 10% amount.


----------



## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Day 80 of Jomoxa Gate.


----------



## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

For Joma, the recent decrease in discount to 10% probably serves two purposes:
1. Helps them keep the 26%ers locked in to keep their preordered stock sold (if they did indeed procure a batch of Doxas)
2. If a 26%er gives up and cancels, they can sell the preorder slot for +16% higher margin to someone else

While I agree that it probably isn't worth it to buy a Doxa through Jomashop at only a 10% discount, from what I have heard about the "quality" of Doxa warranty service / experience and the few hundred bucks saved, I bet there are still plenty of people willing to pull the trigger with Jomashop instead of tracking one down at an AD. Especially for the desirable colorways


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Not for nuttin, but this newly acquired NOS Synchron Military fills the void on my extended wait for the special "*26%er 300T AM*" from the future infamous Doxa-Gate....


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> Not for nuttin, but this newly acquired NOS Synchron Military fills the void on my extended wait for the special "*26%er 300T AM*" from the future infamous Doxa-Gate....
> 
> View attachment 16638322


Nice pick up! Congrats, n enjoy it in good health!


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Not for nuttin, but this newly acquired NOS Synchron Military fills the void on my extended wait for the special "*26%er 300T AM*" from the future infamous Doxa-Gate....
> 
> View attachment 16638322


Nice! Mine is a favorite as well!









I think this was actually my “gateway” watch to being interested in getting a 300T.


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I'm feeling more and more like we were separated at birth 




Ryeguy said:


> Nice! Mine is a favorite as well!
> 
> View attachment 16638507
> 
> I think this was actually my “gateway” watch to being interested in getting a 300T.


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> I'm feeling more and more like we were separated at birth


Maybe! 

For what it's worth, I received one of those automated Joma emails today regarding the back ordered status of my Doxa with an estimated shipping of 2 - 3 weeks.

This lines up with the June 6 estimate they verbally gave me last week, so we'll see.

The saga continues...


----------



## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

Seriously considering designing and making a "26%er" patch/ sticker and sending one to everyone here who waited.


----------



## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

cough_turn said:


> Seriously considering designing and making a "26%er" patch/ sticker and sending one to everyone here who waited.













(not really sorry)


----------



## King_Neptune (Mar 3, 2015)

BigBluefish said:


> Maybe if this all collapses, Doxa will offer a Joma Fiasco tribute model to this watch marketing equivalent of the Wreck of the Hesperus.


Will the dial words include a "double R" or other mispelling to escalate value on the 1st dozen or so as a reward?


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

mattcantwin said:


> (not really sorry)


No sticker for you.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

This sucks, I'm still watching the thread in hopes that you guys that ordered get a Doxa at a reasonable price for a change. Still have fingers crossed for you.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Watchout63 said:


> This sucks, I'm still watching the thread in hopes that you guys that ordered get a Doxa at a reasonable price for a change. Still have fingers crossed for you.


Thanks, but in the grand scheme of things, this is really nothing. I'd be pissed if I used Visa Pay or Amazon Pay (where Joma charges upon the transaction and not upon shipping), but for those of us who used PayPal or credit cards, we are out nothing while we wait.

For me, this Joma sale just offered the opportunity to scratch the Doxa itch at a low risk. 

If I were truly a Doxa fanatic and really needed to own one, I would definitely buy from an AD. For someone who is "casually interested" like me, this sale just offered a very low risk way to kick the Doxa tires. Maybe the Doxa bug will bite me, maybe it won't.

My perspective is the watch market ground has really shifted under Doxa. They were one of the first manufacturers to embrace internet sales, which made them able to supply some unique watches to "those in the know".

Internet watch sales have become the norm. Micros have really upped their game over the past few years and Seiko (while increasing their prices for their mid-range divers) is offering some really compelling watches for around $1K (the SBDC101 comes to mind with domed sapphire, applied indices, great lume, diashield coated stainless case and bracelet, and 70hr power reserve 6r-35 movement - it is a really solid dive watch by a global leader in dive watch manufacturing). 

I'm looking forward to (if they are actually delivered) being able to compare the Doxa's I've ordered to others in my collection. I'd like to see how they stack up against my $900 Synchron Military, my $900 MKii Stingray, and my mid-tier Seiko divers.


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## xian (Feb 3, 2021)

Ryeguy said:


> Thanks, but in the grand scheme of things, this is really nothing. I'd be pissed if I used Visa Pay or Amazon Pay (where Joma charges upon the transaction and not upon shipping), but for those of us who used PayPal or credit cards, we are out nothing while we wait.
> 
> For me, this Joma sale just offered the opportunity to scratch the Doxa itch at a low risk.
> 
> ...


I agree with you whole-heartedly, and not to be that guy but I believe the SBDC101/SPB143 markers are not applied and instead stamped through from the other side. 

Otherwise, hear,hear


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

xian said:


> I agree with you whole-heartedly, and not to be that guy but I believe the SBDC101/SPB143 markers are not applied and instead stamped through from the other side.
> 
> Otherwise, hear,hear


Interesting. I was making the applied indices statement on the SBDC101 based upon the look and from reading various on-line descriptions (such as from Gnomen Watches). I've admired that watch, but never bought one due to already owning an SLA017 which are visually pretty similar. 

FWIW, if the indicies are indeed stamped from the back, Seiko did a very good job of it with the lume plots nicely placed within the metal surrounds. Even better, having the indicies being integral with the dial itself, there is no change for an applied indice to come loose from a knock. This has happened to me only once (not on a Seiko) and it is a bit disconcerting to see a lume plot bouncing around under the crystal.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Never Pay Retail


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Website now says “1 - 2 weeks”. Maybe I can justify this as a Father’s Day gift? 

If the clock resets again in June, I’m just gonna laugh.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Ryeguy said:


> If the clock resets again in June, I’m just gonna laugh.


Keep your laughing boots on. I believe that they've already reset it twice; am I right?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

drmdwebb said:


> Keep your laughing boots on. I believe that they've already reset it twice; am I right?


yeah... but this time they said 'for sure"...


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## wellman70 (Dec 27, 2015)

Third time is the charm! Or not.....


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

wellman70 said:


> Third time is the charm! Or not.....


Now says "Ships in 5 - 7 Days"

If they reset the clock now.....


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Now says "Ships in 5 - 7 Days"
> 
> If they reset the clock now.....


I've all but worn out the straps I bought for the 300T(s) That I had on order in wearing them on other watches while waiting for this


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

.... and some SKUs are again sold out... We're back down to 49 available SKUs. The AM 300T in the BOR is back off the site. Fun times...


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## Henki (Oct 23, 2010)

Ryeguy said:


> Here's a crazy theory....
> 
> What if Doxa corporate is dumping stock directly to Joma and it isn't coming from some disgruntled AD?
> 
> ...


Some inside baseball - Joma, and pretty much every other major grey market player have direct deals with the brands. Keep in mind that the majority of the "big dogs" have their own distribution subsidiaries - i.e. there is not a disgruntled distributor dumping stock. Go to a trade show as a traditional retail partner, it is highly likely that the person sitting next to you in the waiting area is from the grey or light grey market, and on a first-name basis with the same brand manager who can never remember your name or where your store is located.

This is not a comment on DOXA - just the business as a whole.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

BobMartian said:


>


@BobMartian What's the link for this GIF? I couldn't find it on 4gifs and want to share it with others (mostly to get them excited about an upcoming dive trip).


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

drmdwebb said:


> @BobMartian What's the link for this GIF? I couldn't find it on 4gifs and want to share it with others (mostly to get them excited about an upcoming dive trip).


I found it in the Tapatalk GIFs. I cannot remember what search words I used. Maybe this link will work.









fish steals a catch from diver gif


WiffleGif has the awesome gifs on the internets. fish steals a catch from diver gifs, reaction gifs, cat gifs, and so much more.




wifflegif.com


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## pjku79 (Sep 4, 2012)

I like sales


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## Greelycl (Apr 17, 2020)

BobMartian said:


> I found it in the Tapatalk GIFs. I cannot remember what search words I used. Maybe this link will work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That'd ruin my day!


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Greelycl said:


> That'd ruin my day!


Especially since that diver is actually just snorkeling. If that Goliath Grouper hadn't let go of his hand (watch closely), we'd probably be reading their obituary. It's happened before (Grouper pulled a snorkeler down and they drowned).


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

drmdwebb said:


> Especially since that diver is actually just snorkeling. If that Goliath Grouper hadn't let go of his hand (watch closely), we'd probably be reading their obituary. It's happened before (Grouper pulled a snorkeler down and they drowned).


It actually doesn’t take a very big fish to pull you down. And you have very little time to deal with it when he does. Take away: give him the fish!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

WaHOO! 3-5 days days to ship 3.0! 


3rd... maybe 4th times a charm?


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Day 90 of Jomaxa Gate, same ol same ol


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> Day 90 of Jomaxa Gate, same ol same ol
> 
> View attachment 16655462



If we aren't careful this post will turn into the most view post in WUS history..

Joma: "Challenge Accepted!"

06/03/2022 Joma:"We regret to inform you that there has been a delay in the shipment from our supplier of your Doxa watch order# 128752B. Please know your Joma team is doing everything we can to fill your preorder from 02/26/2022 and will honor all preorder pricing when your watch is shipped in 5-7 weeks"......


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Given how the exchange rate has moved I’m rather glad to have not got my hopes up!










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Spoke with a JS rep on the phone for the first time about it today. She said they would be getting them within the next 2 weeks. I asked her are you _really_ getting them in the next two weeks?  Because your timeline has changed like 3 or 4 times. And she sounded pretty certain that they would get them in hand. The website for my model says 3-5 days, so it looks like no matter what you should probably expect that timer to reset again 💀


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

… looking for “my shocked face” meme …


----------



## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)




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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

I'm in it to win it.....

or not.

snore?


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

WRXtranceformed said:


> Spoke with a JS rep on the phone for the first time about it today. She said they would be getting them within the next 2 weeks. I asked her are you _really_ getting them in the next two weeks? Because your timeline has changed like 3 or 4 times. And she sounded pretty certain that they would get them in hand. The website for my model says 3-5 days, so it looks like no matter what you should probably expect that timer to reset again 💀



Put it this way, it's been 90+ days on these hopeful transactions. If Joma was publicly traded, I'd be shorting their stock like AMC was last year


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

WRXtranceformed said:


> Spoke with a JS rep on the phone for the first time about it today. She said they would be getting them within the next 2 weeks. I asked her are you _really_ getting them in the next two weeks? Because your timeline has changed like 3 or 4 times. And she sounded pretty certain that they would get them in hand. The website for my model says 3-5 days, so it looks like no matter what you should probably expect that timer to reset again 💀


Now (Saturday, 28 May) the website says “ships in 1 - 3 days”.

Either the customer service reps have the inside scoop and the website guys are clueless, or the opposite. Bottom line is the two departments don’t seem to be communicating very well.

I remain cautiously optimistic, but I’m not really thinking about it too much. _If_ the watches actually show up, and _if_ the watches I receive are of acceptable quality, then I’ll have to figure out which of my collection to flip to make room for the new additions. I haven’t even begun that thought process yet.


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

Ryeguy said:


> Now (Saturday, 28 May) the website says “ships in 1 - 3 days”.
> 
> Either the customer service reps have the inside scoop and the website guys are clueless, or the opposite. Bottom line is the two departments don’t seem to be communicating very well.
> 
> I remain cautiously optimistic, but I’m not really thinking about it too much. _If_ the watches actually show up, and _if_ the watches I receive are of acceptable quality, then I’ll have to figure out which of my collection to flip to make room for the new additions. I haven’t even begun that thought process yet.


I doubt it is a situation where the website guys are clueless. They're not updating this website with dates by hand. They probably have an expected ship date they pull from somewhere and it automatically calculates what should be displayed there based on that date (for convenience, I'd be willing to bet that this currently says 1 June 2022). I bet you they move it to 1 July and it goes back to 3-5 weeks.


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

cough_turn said:


> I doubt it is a situation where the website guys are clueless. They're not updating this website with dates by hand. They probably have an expected ship date they pull from somewhere and it automatically calculates what should be displayed there based on that date (for convenience, I'd be willing to bet that this currently says 1 June 2022). I bet you they move it to 1 July and it goes back to 3-5 weeks.


Yes, that is exactly my point. The website probably sources it’s calculated shipping date from some vendor expected delivery date in the Joma ERP system. It is fully automated.

The customer service person, however, just said 2 more weeks which is different than the website. 

I‘m less annoyed by the predicted shipping date and more annoyed by the inconsistency. Maybe the customer service rep knows the ERP system is wrong and provided the correct date, or maybe the customer service rep is wrong - who knows?

FWIW, if I were running Joma, I would make certain my website was very conservative with shipping date estimates. Rarely do people get upset when a purchase is delivered sooner than expected. Delays are much more likely to cause an issue.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Yes, that is exactly my point. The website probably sources it’s calculated shipping date from some vendor expected delivery date in the Joma ERP system. It is fully automated.
> 
> The customer service person, however, just said 2 more weeks which is different than the website.
> 
> ...


I've mentioned it before, but I work for a very large web based retailer and typically estimated ship dates on products not on the shelf are based purely on the date expected to receive in the warehouse and then padded slightly for exactly this issue. For larger vendors we require inventory feeds 4 times a week and then the ship dates are way more accurate. When we see 30 day lead times, they product has not even been made yet.

The only legit excuse I can surmise is that the vendor supplying the Doxas was Russian-not completely out of the question. If you look at the timeline, it lines up. Its impossible to get any money into Russia from foreign banks. It is possible to get shipments out though. Maybe thats why they keep them up on the site...Hoping things change soon and payment can be made while leading many along with those sexy "26%-$50.00+free expedited shipping" discounts..


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

STARSTELLA said:


> I've mentioned it before, but I work for a very large web based retailer and typically estimated ship dates on products not on the shelf are based purely on the date expected to receive in the warehouse and then padded slightly for exactly this issue. For larger vendors we require inventory feeds 4 times a week and then the ship dates are way more accurate. When we see 30 day lead times, they product has not even been made yet.
> 
> The only legit excuse I can surmise is that the vendor supplying the Doxas was Russian-not completely out of the question. If you look at the timeline, it lines up. Its impossible to get any money into Russia from foreign banks. It is possible to get shipments out though. Maybe thats why they keep them up on the site...Hoping things change soon and payment can be made while leading many along with those sexy "26%-$50.00+free expedited shipping" discounts..


The Russia angle is interesting. They'd realistically have to go through a third party (China?) to make payment and ship out if that were the case.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I don’t think Doxa has an AD in Russia. I checked their website and was only able to find AD’s in Eastern Europe (Poland, etc.). 

That said, the invasion of the Ukraine has messed up the supply chain throughout that region, so there certainly could be a connection.

FWIW, website still says “1 to 3 days”. Let’s see if it updates tomorrow.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Groundhog Day approaches!


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## bellbrass (Mar 22, 2010)

It's been so long since I've ordered that I've forgotten about this thread... twice. I'm glad I can come back to it; you guys are cracking me up!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

cough_turn said:


> The Russia angle is interesting. They'd realistically have to go through a third party (China?) to make payment and ship out if that were the case.


Theres a couple Russian pieces I was after and I was chatting with a buddy who owns one of the bigger Russian watch resellers. He told me only Russian based banks can get money into Russia-IE a Russian Bank, outside of Russia who has not been shut off. Nothing in Asia at all. Although there's a rumor that PayPal is now working on his site from many countries. I don't believe US to one of them. Subsequently a Russian owned store, (whose family is mostly from Ukraine) is seeing a drop in sales of over 80% since this started because he's Russian... and like many, do not believe in this war. (sorry-I'm rarely political, but its impacting someone I actually know quite well)

I have paid in full for a Russian project watch that was supposed to be completed some time ago. Nobody knows what's going on with them since most Russians are blocked from social media.


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

Latest news … they are getting the watches on Thursday and will ship Friday. Not holding my breath.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Oooooooohhhhh, the excitement builds.....



ie_benitex said:


> Latest news … they are getting the watches on Thursday and will ship Friday. Not holding my breath.


----------



## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

ie_benitex said:


> Latest news … they are getting the watches on Thursday and will ship Friday. Not holding my breath.


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

ie_benitex said:


> Latest news … they are getting the watches on Thursday and will ship Friday. Not holding my breath.


We shall see...

At least the website hasn't been updated yet and still says "1 - 3 days" so that is an optimistic sign.


----------



## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

ie_benitex said:


> Latest news … they are getting the watches on Thursday and will ship Friday. Not holding my breath.


----------



## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

ie_benitex said:


> Latest news … they are getting the watches on Thursday and will ship Friday. Not holding my breath.


Oh boy! Looking forward to buying a LNIB Doxa for a great price sometime soon! I'll remember what you paid and keep my eye on the sales forum.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ticktocker said:


> Oh boy! Looking forward to buying a LNIB Doxa for a great price sometime soon! I'll remember what you paid and keep my eye on the sales forum.


I'm hoping that it manipulates the market for all doxas down to where other watches that spec the same seem to sell


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)




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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Joma website still says "1 to 3 Days" for shipping. The anticipation builds....


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Not to rain on anyone’s post-Memorial Day parade, but doesn’t Joma count in business days? If so the 31st wouldn’t have counted due to the holiday so today is still in the 1-3 day window that started on the 28th. It could reset tomorrow.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> Not to rain on anyone’s post-Memorial Day parade, but doesn’t Joma count in business days? If so the 31st wouldn’t have counted due to the holiday so today is still in the 1-3 day window that started on the 28th. It could reset tomorrow.












LOL!


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> LOL!


Just trying to keep the conversation going!


----------



## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)




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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

drmdwebb said:


> View attachment 16669288


I’m not complaining, just pointing out a potential miscalculation. Point taken though.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> Not to rain on anyone’s post-Memorial Day parade, but doesn’t Joma count in business days? If so the 31st wouldn’t have counted due to the holiday so today is still in the 1-3 day window that started on the 28th. It could reset tomorrow.


it was 1-3 days for the better part of 10 days on the last cycle... SOOOOOOoooooooo.... I'm here with baited breath again eying up something else up while leaving the Doxa on hold for another 5-6 weeks lol


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> it was 1-3 days for the better part of 10 days on the last cycle... SOOOOOOoooooooo.... I'm here with baited breath again eying up something else up while leaving the Doxa on hold for another 5-6 weeks lol


Don’t do it!

This dumb Joma Doxa sale has been the best watch purchase abstinence tool ever invented! 

Unfortunately, I’m now spending my $ on boat stuff. My marine supply shop needs to hire the Joma order fulfillment team to save my wallet!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Don’t do it!
> 
> This dumb Joma Doxa sale has been the best watch purchase abstinence tool ever invented!
> 
> Unfortunately, I’m now spending my $ on boat stuff. My marine supply shop needs to hire the Joma order fulfillment team to save my wallet!


Ha! Since this has started, on every 5-7 week reset I've bought something else... The Zodiac COSC 50th Anniversary Seawolf, The Synchron Military and a Vostok 1967 Steel LTD have all joined the collection on or about reset day


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

@STARSTELLA I admire your tenacity and style! Don't let the Joma man keep you down!


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

If those that are still hanging in there with their orders actually receive their watches, WUS should give you guys a special 26%er insignia on your Avatar.  🍻


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

.....its my next tattoo.....


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

I spent my money on a Omega GMT, going to wear it the next 1-3 days or forever, which ever comes first.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Ryeguy said:


> Don’t do it!
> 
> This dumb Joma Doxa sale has been the best watch purchase abstinence tool ever invented!
> 
> Unfortunately, I’m now spending my $ on boat stuff. My marine supply shop needs to hire the Joma order fulfillment team to save my wallet!


Abstinence my ***! I backed out of my $750 Sub 200 last month after waiting 2 months, only then to buy a $1k Ginault!


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## Semper Jeep (Jan 11, 2013)

I've still got my pending order at Joma and never check their site for updates. I do come here for updates and entertainment though. I was almost scared to click on this thread this morning in case somebody had already said that the Joma site was now showing 5-7 weeks again.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Today it bounced from "Ships in 1-3 days" to "Ships in 3-5 days".

So they didn't punt it back out to 3-5 weeks? I guess that's good? 💀


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Why do I have the feeling we will be reading the same "Ships In xx days or weeks" posts this time next year?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Man, I really thought this was going to happen :-(




ie_benitex said:


> Latest news … they are getting the watches on Thursday and will ship Friday. Not holding my breath.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

WRXtranceformed said:


> Today it bounced from "Ships in 1-3 days" to "Ships in 3-5 days".
> 
> So they didn't punt it back out to 3-5 weeks? I guess that's good? 💀


i’m looking at the Joma site right now and it is still showing as 1-3 days.


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

It's still showing 1-3 days. I'm sure the delay update will be coming soon

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

ean10775 said:


> i’m looking at the Joma site right now and it is still showing as 1-3 days.


Ha that's hilarious, I just visited the page again and you're right, they changed it back to 1-3 days.

Maybe that's a good sign?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Manual updates in an automated, digital world? Heck yeah.....the fingers are crossed on my purple lucky rabbits foot!


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Hope springs eternal.


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## Awesom-O 4000 (Sep 20, 2018)

Your watches are all stuck in the Upside Down.


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## toomuchdamnrum (Nov 11, 2013)

After my cancelled Doxa order I decided to give Jomashop another shot and ordered a non watch related accessory for my wife. Said it would ship out in 2-3 weeks  that time goes by and not a peep. I check the product page and wouldn't you know it, now it says 6-10 weeks! Cancelled it is

They seem to be an incompetent and just overall s***ty business. Won't see a dollar out of me


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

toomuchdamnrum said:


> After my cancelled Doxa order I decided to give Jomashop another shot and ordered a non watch related accessory for my wife. Said it would ship out in 2-3 weeks  that time goes by and not a peep. I check the product page and wouldn't you know it, now it says 6-10 weeks! Cancelled it is
> 
> They seem to be an incompetent and just overall s***ty business. Won't see a dollar out of me


Many of us, myself included, have had a number of orders go off without a hitch. I mentioned it before, but my Certina DS PH300 was drop shipped from an authorized dealer with stamped warranty papers and all. My wife buys Swatches and sunglasses from the all the time. They really are just a big ol gray market reseller.


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## DCWatchCollector (Aug 26, 2018)

Flyingdoctor said:


> No idea what's going on or if Jomashop is totally reliable, they seem to be legit, but if it is and you are in the market for a SUB, this is the place to go.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.jomashop.com/search?q=doxa


They always sketch me out for some reason.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Still says 1-3 days. 

And it looks like they have more stock(?) I see aquamarine 300Ts and 300s on bracelets are available now. 

At the current 10% off though, I’d buy direct or through an AD instead. But if Joma _does _come through with the 26% off for those who stuck it out, gentlemen, you’ve done well!


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

BigBluefish said:


> Still says 1-3 days.
> 
> And it looks like they have more stock(?) I see aquamarine 300Ts and 300s on bracelets are available now.
> 
> At the current 10% off though, I’d buy direct or through an AD instead. But if Joma _does _come through with the 26% off for those who stuck it out, gentlemen, you’ve done well!


Those have been available for the past couple weeks. I think I’d like to swap my order from a Searambler to an Aquamarine, but, as you said, not at the reduced discount.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> Those have been available for the past couple weeks. I think I’d like to swap my order from a Searambler to an Aquamarine, but, as you said, not at the reduced discount.


I haven’t really been following Joma’s sight since I bailed out. The additional stock and reduced discount actually make it look more legit. But, I don’t imagine Joma will move many DOXAs at only -10%.

Searambler or Aquamarine? Tough choice, those are my two favorite dials as well. But like you, were I still in the game, I’d have to hold out for the 26%!


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Well, no shipping notification yet.

Maybe it'll just be "1 to 3 days" perpetually? 

FWIW, I'll be sure to post if I do get a shipping notice at some point (as I'm sure others will as well).


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

BigBluefish said:


> I haven’t really been following Joma’s sight since I bailed out. The additional stock and reduced discount actually make it look more legit. But, I don’t imagine Joma will move many DOXAs at only -10%.


Personally, 10% would not influence me to buy from Joma. Especially when you can get $100 "first time buyer" discount from an AD (making the Joma effective discount only 5% on a 300T). 
The Doxa warranty is worth something IMO. 

My Doxa's from Joma are both priced at $1,300 even, which works out to about 30% off retail, each. I'll "self insure" for $1,100 ($550 off each watch) but not for much less.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> Those have been available for the past couple weeks. I think I’d like to swap my order from a Searambler to an Aquamarine, but, as you said, not at the reduced discount.


I just chatted with an customer service agent names "Shady" (Ironic?) who told me that the watches are still not in stock but they are "working closely with the distributor to get them here"....


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

.... and I just spoke to an agent who first told me that yes, it is true that none of the Doxa pieces have been delivered, then he told me that they will be in today and then he told me that he had a shipping confirmation on many pieces..

I pushed him to give me more info... maybe a lie... maybe truth...He said the watches are shipping from Switzerland and the orders would NOT be filled all at one time. Small numbers of each piece will come in and the orders would be filled in the order that they were received.

He told me they have 4 300T in AM on the bracelet coming in "today" and that my order from February 22nd was 2nd in line..

...How will I ever make it through the weekend knowing I'll have a new charge on my credit card for a long awaited Doxa 300T? or... will it really be like every other weekend from 2022...


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

How many distributors does Doxa have in Switzerland? I find it odd that if Joma did a deal a distributor that was looking to offload stock that all the watches ordered wouldn’t ship at once. Now if Joma was dealing with the manufacturer itself it would make much more sense that the pieces would ship in small numbers over time because the manufacturer would need to supply Joma as well as their ADs.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> How many distributors does Doxa have in Switzerland? I find it odd that if Joma did a deal a distributor that was looking to offload stock that all the watches ordered wouldn’t ship at once. Now if Joma was dealing with the manufacturer itself it would make much more sense that the pieces would ship in small numbers over time because the manufacturer would need to supply Joma as well as their ADs.


That could also account for the new pricing and the wider stock that appeared.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> How many distributors does Doxa have in Switzerland? I find it odd that if Joma did a deal a distributor that was looking to offload stock that all the watches ordered wouldn’t ship at once. Now if Joma was dealing with the manufacturer itself it would make much more sense that the pieces would ship in small numbers over time because the manufacturer would need to supply Joma as well as their ADs.


He said currently they had just over 200 Doxa's sold. Thats a lot for even the biggest dealer to just unload. The way he explained it was that they ordered the pieces from the dealer and then the dealer ordered them from Doxa. If done in smaller numbers that would allow them to fly under the radar of Doxa themselves who are unhappy with their products being advertised on Joma's page anyway.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> He said currently they had just over 200 Doxa's sold. Thats a lot for even the biggest dealer to just unload. The way he explained it was that they ordered the pieces from the dealer and then the dealer ordered them from Doxa. If done in smaller numbers that would allow them to fly under the radar of Doxa themselves who are unhappy with their products being advertised on Joma's page anyway.


If that is true I have a feeling that people are going to be waiting longer for their Joma Doxas than their Rolexes.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Fingers crossed they really do fill the orders in order that they were placed.


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

Shipping next week I was told


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

STARSTELLA said:


> .... and I just spoke to an agent who first told me that yes, it is true that none of the Doxa pieces have been delivered, then he told me that they will be in today and then he told me that he had a shipping confirmation on many pieces..
> 
> I pushed him to give me more info... maybe a lie... maybe truth...He said the watches are shipping from Switzerland and the orders would NOT be filled all at one time. Small numbers of each piece will come in and the orders would be filled in the order that they were received.
> 
> ...


Maybe one of them is my Caribbean on bracelet!!!!!! I guess I'm still holding off on canceling. I wanna be a 26%er


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

rhaykal said:


> Maybe one of them is my Caribbean on bracelet!!!!!! I guess I'm still holding off on canceling. I wanna be a 26%er


Its a sik club brah!


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Groundhog Day is tomorrow. Jomashop states the Doxa would be received yesterday 6/3 and all orders will be shipped the following week. My bet, shipping will be delayed. So….

WRUW instead of the Doxa you ordered from Jomashop? Here’s my Seamaster.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BobMartian said:


> Groundhog Day is tomorrow. Jomashop states the Doxa would be received yesterday 6/3 and all orders will be shipped the following week. My bet, shipping will be delayed. So….
> 
> WRUW instead of the Doxa you ordered from Jomashop? Here’s my Seamaster.


Is it time to pull the pizza out of the oven?


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Do not give up guys. Do not let Jomashop win. Hang in there as it is perpetually 2-3 weeks cause they are still working with their distributors. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

So I was thinking about some things that were apparently relayed by a Joma CS rep - if the watches are indeed expected to trickle in then why would the availability be the same for all the watches? If they are really tracking this, different models should have different ship times.

Also, while Joma said they would be fulfilled in the order in which the orders were received, it seems to me with the price increases it would be to Joma’s advantage to fulfill orders for those watches placed at the 10% discount level as opposed to the 26% discount level first to maximize their profit. I’m not saying that’s the ethical thing to do, of course.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

My son, at 9 years old, is super big into astronomy and he was telling me that one day on Venus is the same as 243 days on earth... *I think my 9 year old cracked it..*. 1-3 days for shipping *IS *accurate. Joma HQ is on *Venus!!!!* Mathematically we will see these start to see shipping in another month or so on out to late 2023!

*THAT *gentlemen is why Joma makes such a big deal when they offer us unhappy customers expedited shipping for free... Can you imagine the cost if expedited intergalactic shipping?


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Day 101 of Jomoxa Gate


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

We’re on Venus time!


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Well, as of this morning they nuked the delivery timeline and availability from the listing altogether for the Divingstar on strap that I ordered.

In fact, Doxa isn't coming up for me at all on a search bar search on the site.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

It’s here: Doxageddon.


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

I'm sure it's because they've all arrived and they want to make sure they get shipped to users who purchased them. Right?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

DoxaGate or JomaGate.... 

"This is so classic Joma Shop" 

I have a massive number of reports I need to run for a meeting later, so I have some "static" time... I'll try to call them today....you know... to follow up on my tracking number that I was told I would have today.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

This happened once before. The watches were off the site for a day or so and then they were all put back on with a date reset to 5-7 weeks.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

......34 minutes of hearing "_An uncompromising effort to exceed our customers expectations" (_*oh yeah?*_)_ combined with that awful Ukulele looped riff and I finally get a human on the phone who for the first time pretends not to know why I'm calling based on my phone number... that they have all shown that they see....

*ME:* "Good Morning, I'd like to check the status of an order please." 
*Agent*: "Whats your order number?"
*Me:*" XXXXXXX"
*Agent*.... Long awkward pause....."Please hold".... New hold music instills..... a minute or so goes by...


*Beep-Beep-Beep.*.... They hung up on me....


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Well, this is pretty funny. 

I was just going to ask if anyone had gotten a shipping notice yet.

On the other hand, Maranez is offering a 20% off sale...


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

I am rolling on the floor laughing at the same time tears are streaming from my eyes ...

Search Doxa on JS, and get ... pictures of bottles of perfume???? The same search that showed 40-50 watches yesterday.

This is like a scene from the Twilight Zone--call JS and ask about your order and they say, "Doxa? We've never offered Doxa for sale."


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)




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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

You know, at this point I would have more respect for Joma if they simply cancelled all orders with an apology and maybe a discount code for some future purchase.

This whole process is just an embarrassment for them at this point.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> You know, at this point I would have more respect for Joma if they simply cancelled all orders with an apology and maybe a discount code for some future purchase.
> 
> This whole process is just an embarrassment for them at this point.


I've said it before, but I don't think anyone buys anything from Joma with any preconcieved level of expectation in terms of service... You buy from Joma for one reason only... PRICE. 

I might try to call again...lol


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> I've said it before, but I don't think anyone buys anything from Joma with any preconcieved level of expectation in terms of service... You buy from Joma for one reason only... PRICE.
> 
> I might try to call again...lol



You should try again. I'd do it just to be a PITA. 

Price is important to be certain, but I do expect some level of customer support, and I would expect Joma would want at least a passable reputation.

To be honest, this is my first awkward transaction with Joma. All my previous purchases have been smooth. 

I'm staying in it now just for the goof, but my expectations of receiving anything are pretty minimal right now.

As I mentioned earlier, on the positive side, this has kept me from buying any new watches for a couple months.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

And I think we are done. Been a heck of a thread


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> You should try again. I'd do it just to be a PITA.
> 
> Price is important to be certain, but I do expect some level of customer support, and I would expect Joma would want at least a passable reputation.
> 
> ...


......10:32...33...34..35 seconds on hold now...oh I'll BE ANNOYING!

I'm told my call is very important to them and they will be with me shortly...


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> ......10:32...33...34..35 seconds on hold now...oh I'll BE ANNOYING!
> 
> I'm told my call is very important to them and they will be with me shortly...


Ask them when they expect the Doxa 3.4 oz. Etat Libre Orange 300T to ship


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> ......10:32...33...34..35 seconds on hold now...oh I'll BE ANNOYING!
> 
> I'm told my call is very important to them and they will be with me shortly...


 ....Spoke to someone once again. She said they took Doxa off the site so they didn't anger any more customers. Whomever the vendor is is a new vendor to them and are giving them the run around. She said this is highly unusual.

She told me she has no information that anything has or will ship anytime soon and promised to email me with something more.


*This has to be the end.......But I will keep my order open for historical evidence of this now infamous Jomagate sale!  *


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> ....Spoke to someone once again. She said they took Doxa off the site so they didn't anger any more customers. Whomever the vendor is is a new vendor to them and are giving them the run around. She said this is highly unusual.
> 
> She told me she has no information that anything has or will ship anytime soon and promised to email me with something more.
> 
> ...












OK - new conspiracy theory:

This entire thing was orchestrated either by Doxa or an AD. String Joma along to build excitement for the brand, then pull the rug out to tarnish Joma's reputation.

A clever AD would step in at this point and say " we'll give anyone with a Doxa order cancellation confirmation email from Joma a discount on the Doxa of their choice". I bet some people would jump at the offer.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Why do I think orders at Maranez, Seestern, Tactical Frog will increase?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> OK - new conspiracy theory:
> 
> This entire thing was orchestrated either by Doxa or an AD. String Joma along to build excitement for the brand, then pull the rug out to tarnish Joma's reputation.
> 
> A clever AD would step in at this point and say " we'll give anyone with a Doxa order cancellation confirmation email from Joma a discount on the Doxa of their choice". I bet some people would jump at the offer.


EXACTLY!

Clearly the margin is there is Joma had the ability to offer us 26% off and another $50.00 off and still make money. The vendor might make 5-10% in playing middleman to Joma, but with 200+ pieces sold, thats not bad for doing little to nothing.

If WOS came in and offered 20% off to anyone who can show proof that they were trying to purchase through Doxa, I bet many of us would jump on it....WOS would likely still make 20-25% but the volume would be great.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> Why do I think orders at Maranez, Seestern, Tactical Frog will increase?


because most future/potential owners of Doxa don't see value in the brand at the current MSRP?


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Watchout63 said:


> Why do I think orders at Maranez, Seestern, Tactical Frog will increase?


Absolutely. I'm sure the 20% discount offered by Maranez this week is a complete coincidence.


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## Dave T (Feb 11, 2006)

STARSTELLA said:


> ....Spoke to someone once again. She said they took Doxa off the site so they didn't anger any more customers. Whomever the vendor is is a new vendor to them and are giving them the run around. She said this is highly unusual.
> 
> She told me she has no information that anything has or will ship anytime soon and promised to email me with something more.
> 
> ...


I just want to say thanks for making the phone call and posting the info from Joma, saved me the trouble of calling and sitting on hold  

I've been part of this sh*t show since early April (Caribbean 300T on order), like you I am going to keep my order open but I doubt anything will ever come of it.

Too bad Maranez doesn't have a Caribbean but I may just grab a 300 Searambler during the current sale to scratch that "new watch" itch 

Thanks again


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

I got a Seestern in a couple weeks ago. It’s a really nice watch if someone is considering a 300T. Really nice quality for under $200. It’s just a little chunky for me and so I was holding out for a Sub300.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

What, you are not going to get a Titanium Irishstar? Shame on you


----------



## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

It seems all the current crop of vintage divers are titanium now? 
I picked up a military, like it a lot, but was hoping for a steel "searambler," a little different. Now, it seems everything is TI.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> What, you are not going to get a Titanium Irishstar? Shame on you
> View attachment 16681647


Did Maranez consult with you prior to this offering? I saw it on their site and immediately thought of your one and only you've shown us.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> because most future/potential owners of Doxa don't see value in the brand at the current MSRP?


Exactly. Doxa had a golden opportunity with Joma to offer the 26% discount to potential buyers/future buyers.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> Exactly. Doxa had a golden opportunity with Joma to offer the 26% discount to potential buyers/future buyers.


Brands don’t typically offer sales though. Rather ADs offer ‘price consideration’ when someone is in the shop or inquires about it, correct? I’m not sure how Doxa would go about offering a discount like that.


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

Doxa won't do a damn thing. They'll be reading this thinking it serves everyone right who had the temerity to dare order through Jomashop. 
It'll be Doxa themselves giving orders to the AD in question who is supposedly supplying Jomashop. 
Both Jomashop and Doxa should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this debacle to continue. I'm so glad I didn't throw my hat into the deal. I really feel for you guys who have been given the runaround in this sh*t show.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Yea, they did the nice thing and actually asked me if I minded if they made one and called it an Irishstar. As the chances of Doxa ever making one was zippidoodah, I said yes 

I even bought one.



Watchout63 said:


> Did Maranez consult with you prior to this offering? I saw it on their site and immediately thought of your one and only you've shown us.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Seikonut1967 said:


> Doxa won't do a damn thing. They'll be reading this thinking it serves everyone right who had the temerity to dare order through Jomashop.
> It'll be Doxa themselves giving orders to the AD in question who is supposedly supplying Jomashop.
> Both Jomashop and Doxa should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this debacle to continue. I'm so glad I didn't throw my hat into the deal. I really feel for you guys who have been given the runaround in this sh*t show.


I think most people that hung in there this far only did so at the deep discount with the nothing to lose attitude. In the end, I made a few pals through this but really lost nothing. I'll never cancel my order... no reason to. Even if its .005% chance of getting filled someday, it costs nothing keeping a place in the line that may never move.


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

Sorry guys, I really feel for you. I was following up this thread from the very beginning and I applaud some of you that pulled through the aggravation. I think this is the nail in the coffin though. Time to move on.
The good thing is, now that the market is slow on watches, you can get excellent deals on preowned across the board on the forums and Reddit so happy hunting!


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> I think most people that hung in there this far only did so at the deep discount with the nothing to lose attitude. In the end, I made a few pals through this but really lost nothing. I'll never cancel my order... no reason to. Even if its .005% chance of getting filled someday, it costs nothing keeping a place in the line that may never move.


I agree with you 100%. 

My order through Joma cost me nothing and I'll leave it on the books until either Joma kills it or it gets delivered.

Joma has been around for a long time, but they really messed up with this one. I find it hard to believe they would post watches for sale on just the promise from some new supplier with no track record. I'm guessing some Jomashop buyer is now looking for a new employer.

As for us still holding orders, the classy thing would be for Joma to cancel our orders with some special discount code as an apology. This might make me actually want to buy something else from them in the future. 

What I'm expecting is to just get an order cancellation email and nothing more.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

@Doxa Watches Official how about a group buy for all 200+ of us who committed to buy for Joma Shop?

Say 25% off? Seems like a great way to build future loyal enthusiasts while polishing a few tarnished marks on your reputation for service. Might also mean the end of seeing Doxa's name associated with Joma Shop since the likelihood of new buyers coming out for only 10% off at a gray market store is pretty low.

I'll even volunteer my time to collect all the screen shots for proof that customers were in the Joma line.

 you miss 100% of the opportunities you don't ask for.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Doxa Watches Official said:


> Dear DOXA Fans,
> 
> DOXA considers its bond of trust with official retailers worldwide and through its exclusive distribution network for providing the best service and advice to customers and aficionados of DOXA watches.
> 
> ...



#groupbuy


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

Seikonut1967 said:


> Doxa won't do a damn thing. They'll be reading this thinking it serves everyone right who had the temerity to dare order through Jomashop.
> It'll be Doxa themselves giving orders to the AD in question who is supposedly supplying Jomashop.
> Both Jomashop and Doxa should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this debacle to continue. I'm so glad I didn't throw my hat into the deal. I really feel for you guys who have been given the runaround in this sh*t show.


You have left the real world I think... Won't see you in the Meta but have fun there... you are totally delirious


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Seikonut1967 said:


> Doxa won't do a damn thing. They'll be reading this thinking it serves everyone right who had the temerity to dare order through Jomashop.
> It'll be Doxa themselves giving orders to the AD in question who is supposedly supplying Jomashop.
> Both Jomashop and Doxa should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this debacle to continue. I'm so glad I didn't throw my hat into the deal. I really feel for you guys who have been given the runaround in this sh*t show.


Well, it should not be too difficult for Doxa to figure out who was going to be the potential supplier to JomaShop. 

If we assume Joma expected to receive about 150 - 200 watches across multiple models (assuming an average "buying" price of about $1K per watch), this means the supplier was dumping between $150K - $200K worth of Doxa inventory.

I'm guessing most small jewelers would not normally carry this amount of inventory for a single brand. Especially not for one as obscure as Doxa. 

This means the potential Doxa AD supplier must likely have had multiple stores where they were pulling inventory from.

The Doxa AD's with multiple storefronts are: Behbehani Watch World (3 stores), Ethos (4 stores), Goldsmiths (4 stores), Kultho (3 stores), and Watches of Switzerland (6 stores). So, the suspect list is 5 businesses, but even that is the outside estimate as the idea that a three storefront jeweler would have 65 Doxa watches in stock at each location seems far fetched to me. 

Of course I'm leaving out the possibility this whole thing was orchestrated by Doxa themselves, which while mathematically the most likely possibility, it is also the most risky. For example, if I were an AD who had to live under a minimum selling price agreement to keep my Doxa AD status and later found out the brand itself was dumping stock to a grey dealer, I would be pissed. 

I'm also leaving out the possibility there was never an AD or Doxa involved, and it was all just a ploy by a clever homage entity ("can't get your discount Doxa? Well, buy ours!"). I would think, however, Joma would be experienced enough to figure that one out.

I'm not familiar with how the buying process works from the Joma side, but I wonder if they just issued a P.O. to this "supplier" and never gave a deposit? Just curious if Joma lost anything in this scheme other than their reputation.


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

This will be the same Doxa who put a mock up of the Army model that a 5 year old could do better with. All because Rick beat them to the punch with the Synchron model? 
This the same Jomashop that hangs up the phone when asked about shipping on their orders? 
Do you honestly think that Doxa would allow 150+ models to be dumped at 26% discount when they themselves offer 0% ?. 
Someone somewhere is trying their hardest to stop this deal going through, and it hardly takes much thought as to who it is. 
I know there's nothing to lose because no money has been paid, but it hardly smacks of good business, either by Doxa or Jomashop. 
I'm a fan of Doxa, just not the current management, nor how they seem to be conducting themselves.


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

I'm naturally a pessimist so I cancelled my order two months ago but I've enjoyed keeping up on the drama.


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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

I wouldn’t discount the notion that Joma got played. I know you’re all focused on Doxa but Jomashop has been critically low on inventory of _anything_ desirable for a year or more. I used to browse the site regularly but stopped a while back because they never had stock of what I wanted.

Desperate people and businesses often do questionable things. Joma may be floundering. We may have had ringside seats to part of the floundering process.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> I wouldn’t discount the notion that Joma got played. I know you’re all focused on Doxa but Jomashop has been critically low on inventory of _anything_ desirable for a year or more. I used to browse the site regularly but stopped a while back because they never had stock of anything I wanted.
> 
> Desperate people and businesses often do questionable things. Joma may be floundering. We may have had ringside seats to part of the floundering process.


The rep I spoke with DID tell me whomever they were buying from was a new vendor, so anything is possible.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

I'm in for a Doxa group buy.

Sorry but Doxa's are not worth what they are asking at retail. If you can get 25% off of Omega with the right AD relationship, Doxa can definitely do it.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Well, it should not be too difficult for Doxa to figure out who was going to be the potential supplier to JomaShop.
> 
> If we assume Joma expected to receive about 150 - 200 watches across multiple models (assuming an average "buying" price of about $1K per watch), this means the supplier was dumping between $150K - $200K worth of Doxa inventory.
> 
> ...


Not necessarily. It could be a single store that has to make a minimum commitment in order to keep their AD status. They want to stock Doxa but know they can‘t move the required volume so they make a deal with a Jomashop to provide X number of watches over time. As they place new orders for their in store inventory they add watches they intend to immediately provide to Jomashop. That would explain why the Jomashop CS rep stated the orders would be fulfilled as the watches trickle in. Jomashop lists all the available models on its site and then tells the AD which watches to place orders for once it has an order(s) for a particular SKU.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

WRXtranceformed said:


> I'm in for a Doxa group buy.
> 
> Sorry but Doxa's are not worth what they are asking at retail. If you can get 25% off of Omega with the right AD relationship, Doxa can definitely do it.


I've asked a few times in rhetoric, but what makes the 300T $900.00 better than the 200T? $400.00 better than the 600T? From a manufacturing perspective, the costs built into the MSRP to absorb the initial tooling and design are long paid off, right?

You're paying for the marketing and perceived history from the design on the 300T. You're buying into the "club".


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Seikonut1967 said:


> This will be the same Doxa who put a mock up of the Army model that a 5 year old could do better with. All because Rick beat them to the punch with the Synchron model?
> This the same Jomashop that hangs up the phone when asked about shipping on their orders?
> Do you honestly think that Doxa would allow 150+ models to be dumped at 26% discount when they themselves offer 0% ?.
> Someone somewhere is trying their hardest to stop this deal going through, and it hardly takes much thought as to who it is.
> ...


I agree - shame on Joma for posting watches for sale on their site from an unknown / un-trusted supplier. There is just too much that could go wrong. It was a rookie mistake from a well established grey market seller.

As for stopping the sale, if the stock were coming from a "soon-to-be-ex" Doxa AD, I'm not certain there would be much Doxa could do about it. I would assume the scenario was the AD bought their stock from Doxa, the brand didn't sell as well as they had hoped, and they dump the stock onto the grey market to recoup some capital. The only threat Doxa has is to remove this AD from their list, but I'd assume the AD would not care as the product was not selling anyway. Doxa isn't like Swatch Group with dozens of brands, so the threat is a fairly weak one, at best.

On the other hand, if Doxa themselves were the supplier to Joma, and the Doxa AD community heard about it, I could see a coup d'etat thing happen where the AD community revolts and all threaten to drop the Doxa brand if the transaction is completed. 

All in all, this seems to be about a $300,000 problem. Some vendor was anticipating making $200,000 in revenue from the sale of their Doxa stock, and Joma was anticipating making (assumption on my part) about $100,000 in revenue on their sales.

I really doubt many Joma buyers are going to say, "well, I might as well buy at MSRP now", so that Doxa watch inventory that Joma was going to sell is now just going to sit in some warehouse. 

Let's see if Ashford gets it next.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> I've asked a few times in rhetoric, but what makes the 300T $900.00 better than the 200T? $400.00 better than the 600T? From a manufacturing perspective, the costs built into the MSRP to absorb the initial tooling and design are long paid off, right?
> 
> You're paying for the marketing and perceived history from the design on the 300T. You're buying into the "club".


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

Ryeguy said:


> I really doubt many Joma buyers are going to say, "well, I might as well buy at MSRP now", so that Doxa watch inventory that Joma was going to sell is now just going to sit in some warehouse.


This is basically me, I've always liked the DOXA sub classic design but not for $1800. I was in at $1350.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> Not necessarily. It could be a single store that has to make a minimum commitment in order to keep their AD status. They want to stock Doxa but know they can‘t move the required volume so they make a deal with a Jomashop to provide X number of watches over time. As they place new orders for their in store inventory they add watches they intend to immediately provide to Jomashop. That would explain why the Jomashop CS rep stated the orders would be fulfilled as the watches trickle in. Jomashop lists all the available models on its site and then tells the AD which watches to place orders for once it has an order(s) for a particular SKU.


Maybe, but a 200 watch commitment is a heck of a big nut to carry for a small jeweler, and an incredibly big nut to carry for a brand such as Doxa with minimal recognition.

Take your WIS hat off and think "normal guy" for a moment. Who is really going to pay nearly $2K for watch they probably only heard of from Clive Cussler books (if at all)? The "Sahara" movie isn't going to drive Doxa sales like Top Gun will do for IWC.

I think "average guy" is buying Seiko or Citizen, or moving up to mid tier Swatch Group brands, and then up to Tudor or Omega (Rolex is impossible to get at the moment, so we can leave them out).

My guess is an "average" single entity jeweler who sells men's watches _might_ sell 50 new watches a year, with the majority of those being either "practical" brands (Seiko, etc.) or "achievement" brands (Breitling, etc.). 

Selling 200 Doxas would take them a decade.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Maybe, but a 200 watch commitment is a heck of a big nut to carry for a small jeweler, and an incredibly big nut to carry for a brand such as Doxa with minimal recognition.
> 
> Take your WIS hat off and think "normal guy" for a moment. Who is really going to pay nearly $2K for watch they probably only heard of from Clive Cussler books (if at all)? The "Sahara" movie isn't going to drive Doxa sales like Top Gun will do for IWC.
> 
> ...


That could very well be part of the issue - that the order expectation from Joma surpassed what the AD was expecting they were going to need to be able to provide. Or as you say, it could be an larger AD. I was just a bit surprised when it was reported here that Joma said the watches were going to trickle in as I would have suspected that it was an AD getting out of the DOXA game that was looking to dump stock.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ean10775 said:


> That could very well be part of the issue - that the order expectation from Joma surpassed what the AD was expecting they were going to need to be able to provide. Or as you say, it could be an larger AD. I was just a bit surprised when it was reported here that Joma said the watches were going to trickle in as I would have suspected that it was an AD getting out of the DOXA game that was looking to dump stock.


Maybe the original plan was just overstock and then when that failed they approached someone else, raised the prices and hoped to get them in small batches so as not to raise the eyebrows of Doxa by drawing attention to some big POs.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

ean10775 said:


> That could very well be part of the issue - that the order expectation from Joma surpassed what the AD was expecting they were going to need to be able to provide. Or as you say, it could be an larger AD. I was just a bit surprised when it was reported here that Joma said the watches were going to trickle in as I would have suspected that it was an AD getting out of the DOXA game that was looking to dump stock.


Another thought I had was it could have been an AD with some remaining stock they were looking to dump, but Joma said they needed the full Doxa model line in order to be interested in a bulk purchase.

Maybe the AD said "OK" and placed a big restock order to Doxa in order to fill Joma's request.

This could be what triggered the red flag at Doxa, such as "you bought your last stock order 3 years ago, and now all of the sudden you want to restock everything?! What is going on?" Seeing the JomaShop Doxa sale timed along with this new restock order would raise some flags to me.

I can't imagine an AD who really wanted to retain AD status would do this, but I could see someone who wanted to cut a deal and be done doing this.

Who knows? It is all just speculation at this point. The evidence will come if we see turnover in the Doxa AD community.


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

Ryeguy said:


> Another thought I had was it could have been an AD with some remaining stock they were looking to dump, but Joma said they needed the full model line in order to be interested in a purchase.
> 
> Maybe the AD said "OK" and placed a big restock order to Doxa in order to fill Joma's request.
> 
> This could be what triggered the red flag at Doxa, such as "you bought your last stock order 3 years ago, and now all of the sudden you want to restock everything?!"


I think it's probably this because it was strange that the 1500's showed up later after the others were on the site for a few months. Then they dropped the discount to 10% because they saw how much $ they could make.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

It IS interesting to note that as inactive as Doxa officially is in the group, someone with access to the WUS account WAS logged in this morning..


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Man now you guys got me looking at these $350 (after discount) Maranez ****ters. Are they any good? Anyone tried them?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

scroll to the bottom of the page for the Maranez comparison reviews

DOXA REVIEWS (doxa300t.com) 



WRXtranceformed said:


> Man now you guys got me looking at these $350 (after discount) Maranez ****ters. Are they any good? Anyone tried them?


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

WRXtranceformed said:


> Man now you guys got me looking at these $350 (after discount) Maranez ****ters. Are they any good? Anyone tried them?


I've thought about it as well but every time I buy a homage watch I flip it a week later. From what I've read the Maranez is the best one but Seestern is ok too. Stay away from the Tactical frog.


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## BSwed (Jul 14, 2021)

WRXtranceformed said:


> Man now you guys got me looking at these $350 (after discount) Maranez ****ters. Are they any good? Anyone tried them?


The Maranez Samui models are great. Basically you have two types - the standard one that is 300T-ish and the vintage that's more a 300 with smaller dial and domed crystal. I've only tried the steel ones though, not the new Titanium ones.

The Seiko 35 movements can be a bit hit and miss when it comes to accuracy. I'd say about 80% perform within +-10-15 sec/day.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Mayonnaize always has a coupon code, so no need to rush. Seestern with drilled lugs and lumed date wheel is the better option.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

From all the reviews I’ve read or watched it seems like the Seestern is the best of the bunch if you really want the Doxa look since the Maranez puts the dial text at 12 and 6. The lumed date wheel is cool too.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Thanks for the recommendations fellas! Maybe I'll yeet some of this money I earmarked for the Sub 300 on a Maranez / Seestern and throw a little more at one of the new Zelos's dropping Friday. I just had this thing in my head where I really wanted that Sub 300 experience on the wrist for my birthday (which of course has come and gone).

If through some miracle Joma actually ships my order, it shouldn't be too hard to dump / flip the homage


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Jomashop hasn’t sent the backordered email yet. I expected it on 6/5. That was a Sunday so I assumed maybe Monday. Now I am anticipating a cancellation email by the end of the week.


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## Hard Learner (May 17, 2021)

WRXtranceformed said:


> Thanks for the recommendations fellas! Maybe I'll yeet some of this money I earmarked for the Sub 300 on a Maranez / Seestern and throw a little more at one of the new Zelos's dropping Friday. I just had this thing in my head where I really wanted that Sub 300 experience on the wrist for my birthday (which of course has come and gone).
> 
> If through some miracle Joma actually ships my order, it shouldn't be too hard to dump / flip the homage


Gosh darn it... Just had to find out about a Zelos drop... Been looking at their older Aventurine watches and now they drop a new one.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Maybe we should start posting the watches from our collection we were going to compare the Joma Doxa's to In order to keep this thread alive. 

I’ll start:








Wearing my Eterna KonTiki Super today, ironically purchased from Joma for less than the $1,300 300T. I wonder how they would’ve stacked up against each other.


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## skingwatch (Sep 14, 2009)

Perhaps a dumb question, but does anyone know if a beads of rice bracelet from a Doxa 300 will fit a 300T?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

My Super Sea Wolf COSC 50th Anniversary (thats currently listed FSOT-Just too much watch for me)









My Synchron Military-In love with her...










My ZRC-Also a love affair...


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## xian (Feb 3, 2021)

skingwatch said:


> Perhaps a dumb question, but does anyone know if a beads of rice bracelet from a Doxa 300 will fit a 300T?


I believe the answer is no, it would need serious modifications. I have heard that you can purchase 300T end links and then use the bracelet from the 300.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Ryeguy said:


> Maybe we should start posting the watches from our collection we were going to compare the Joma Doxa's to In order to keep this thread alive.
> 
> I’ll start:
> View attachment 16683383
> ...


Not Doxa-esque but it's a similar yellow color to the Divingstar that I really wanted:


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

Maybe a stupid question here but would the discount have done more harm than good to the brand?
Second hand prices would have been effected for everyone who has purchased at full price + I’d be unwilling to purchase at full price in the future. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

Based on last call watches are stock at customs.


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## ean10775 (Nov 8, 2012)

ie_benitex said:


> Based on last call watches are stock at customs.


I picture these Joma CS Reps huddled around a table housing the Jomashop Roulette Wheel of Excuses. Joma is big on spinning wheels you know.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

ie_benitex said:


> Based on last call watches are stock at customs.


I talked to someone yesterday that said they had not shipped, that had no indication that they would be shipping and Joma felt like they were getting the run around from this "new" vendor. Thats why they were again pulled off the site.


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## Ot1S (Apr 18, 2018)

........Sooooo.....after all the comments about the 26% discount and all the talks about how Doxa isn't "worthy" enough to pay full price 🙄 
I have to get this off of my chest...........(why because this is a forum and I love my 300.)

If you don't want to buy at full price then you don't absolutely Love/adore the Watch!! (Like I do)

I fully agree that the prices of Doxa and the various models makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever........(as discussed many times before)
..........But aren't all Watches overpriced????.....

Long story short IF I could have only one Dive Watch....(at any pricepoint and was not allowed to sell or trade it)..it would be the 300 !!
Viewed from this perspective Two thousand and five hundred Euros isn't that bad at all 🤔 
Ciao for now.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Davida3544 said:


> Maybe a stupid question here but would the discount have done more harm than good to the brand?
> Second hand prices would have been effected for everyone who has purchased at full price + I’d be unwilling to purchase at full price in the future.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Discount by whom?

You can get a $100 off coupon code from WoS (Doxa AD) right now, making the effective purchase price of a 300T $1,750 versus the Doxa MSRP of $1,850. 

I think any AD could do something similar in a general sense (maybe offer a “grey market grievance” special discount like WoS does for first time buyers), but I don’t think they could do anything specific for Doxa as it would probably violate their agreement with the brand. 

I think Doxa could, in theory, offer a “group buy” discount if they wanted to. I don’t think this would necessarily impact the second hand prices as I would expect the number of watches sold at a discount to be very limited. 

I don’t think even the Joma sale would’ve impacted secondary market selling prices. Used 300T’s, for example, seem to go for between $1,300 - $1,500. 

I don’t expect to see the handful of Joma 300T’s sold at $1,300 to reset this number to $1,000 (or similar). The market sets the selling price more than the buying price, in my opinion.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ot1S said:


> ........Sooooo.....after all the comments about the 26% discount and all the talks about how Doxa isn't "worthy" enough to pay full price 🙄
> I have to get this off of my chest...........(why because this is a forum and I love my 300.)
> 
> If you don't want to buy at full price then you don't absolutely Love/adore the Watch!! (Like I do)
> ...


I think we've all established that buying a Doxa 300/300T at retail is an emotional purchase where the consumer is buying into the perceived history of who the brand was and is supposed to represent. There are far better watches in terms of spec by comparison for less money, so you really are buying the Doxa Name and the historic design by paying retail... where is the 200+ consumers who agreed to buy from Joma at the deep discount were buying based on industry comparisons, maybe 1st time Doxa owners or current owners who didn't feel like the addition to the collection was worth retail but had nothing to lose at the Joma price.

Its not realistic to say since a consumer didn't buy at full retail, they didn't "love" the watch, they just didn't make the purchase emotional.


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

Ryeguy said:


> Discount by whom?
> 
> You can get a $100 off coupon code from WoS (Doxa AD) right now, making the effective purchase price of a 300T $1,750 versus the Doxa MSRP of $1,850.
> 
> ...


Like I said, probably a stupid question. Personally, I like the zero discount policy here in the uk. Gives me more confidence in the brand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Ot1S said:


> If you don't want to buy at full price then you don't absolutely Love/adore the Watch!! (Like I do)


You are correct. If I were desperate for a Doxa, I would buy one today from an AD. 

Obviously, I’m not desperate. If this Joma thing works out, great. If not, no big deal.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Anyone can pay full retail for a Doxa. Only a select few WIS are special enough to purchase with a discount and wait indefinitely. Never canceling their orders, never paying full retail. They’re the 26%ers.


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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

Ot1S said:


> ........Sooooo.....after all the comments about the 26% discount and all the talks about how Doxa isn't "worthy" enough to pay full price
> I have to get this off of my chest...........(why because this is a forum and I love my 300.)
> 
> If you don't want to buy at full price then you don't absolutely Love/adore the Watch!! (Like I do)
> ...


I can only speak for myself. I ordered a 300t Caribbean at the 26% discount and have left my order open. I have purchased Doxa at retail and on 2nd hand market. I think the key for me is the 26% was just enough for me to decide "what the hell, just buy it". I have 16 Doxas..... It's not that i need another..... But that price for a new Doxa that i had been eyeing was just enough to allow it to be an impulse buy for me. The msrp of Doxa is higher than I'd like but not too high to where i wouldn't pull the trigger on one if i really decided i wanted it. Bell and Ross sell similar spec'd watches for 1k over the Doxa price. But the 26% was just enough, for me, to just say **** it and buy when i know i didn't NEED another watch. 

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

rhaykal said:


> I can only speak for myself. I ordered a 300t Caribbean at the 26% discount and have left my order open. I have purchased Doxa at retail and on 2nd hand market. I think the key for me is the 26% was just enough for me to decide "what the hell, just buy it". I have 16 Doxas..... It's not that i need another..... But that price for a new Doxa that i had been eyeing was just enough to allow it to be an impulse buy for me. The msrp of Doxa is higher than I'd like but not too high to where i wouldn't pull the trigger on one if i really decided i wanted it. Bell and Ross sell similar spec'd watches for 1k over the Doxa price. But the 26% was just enough, for me, to just say **** it and buy when i know i didn't NEED another watch.
> 
> Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


You're collection was EXACTLY what I had in mind with my statement above


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

Davida3544 said:


> Personally, I like the zero discount policy here in the uk. Gives me more confidence in the brand.


Not all brands are equal and I don't think that matters with DOXA. Also I prefer to save money. 😁


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## xian (Feb 3, 2021)

rhaykal said:


> I can only speak for myself. I ordered a 300t Caribbean at the 26% discount and have left my order open. I have purchased Doxa at retail and on 2nd hand market. I think the key for me is the 26% was just enough for me to decide "what the hell, just buy it". I have 16 Doxas..... It's not that i need another..... But that price for a new Doxa that i had been eyeing was just enough to allow it to be an impulse buy for me. The msrp of Doxa is higher than I'd like but not too high to where i wouldn't pull the trigger on one if i really decided i wanted it. Bell and Ross sell similar spec'd watches for 1k over the Doxa price. But the 26% was just enough, for me, to just say **** it and buy when i know i didn't NEED another watch.
> 
> Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


Woah woah woah there fella, despite your 16 Doxas, the fact that you wanted to save money means you don’t truly love the brand NOR watch. 

As a result I think it would be wise for you to hand those 16 watches over immediately. I shall take them for dispersion to true Doxa lovers like our friend Ot1s who only purchases Doxas at full price.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Davida3544 said:


> Like I said, probably a stupid question. Personally, I like the zero discount policy here in the uk. Gives me more confidence in the brand.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


WoS has 3 locations in the UK. You should be able to get a discount code which could be applied to a Doxa purchase.

Discount availability and brand confidence are separate in my mind. Lots of AD’s offer discounts on various brands. The watch is the watch. A 300T bought at a discount doesn’t imply a “lesser“ watch any more than buying a Rolex Sub for a premium implies a ”better” one. 

Buying grey market without a factory warranty is a different topic.


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## xian (Feb 3, 2021)

Munks337 said:


> Not all brands are equal and I don't think that matters with DOXA. Also I prefer to save money.


I’m just as confused as you Munks. How does not giving a discount equate to confidence in a brand? Rolexes used to be had at discount, and I don’t think anyone had less confidence in the brand as a result. Do you also not negotiate prices when buying a new car, as you’d thus find your car less confidence inspiring?

Your full price purchase tithe to the Doxa gods doesn’t make you more of a believer in my eyes


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## xian (Feb 3, 2021)

Ryeguy said:


> WoS has 3 locations in the UK. You should be able to get a discount code which could be applied to a Doxa purchase.
> 
> Discount availability and brand confidence are separate in my mind. Lots of AD’s offer discounts on various brands. The watch is the watch. A 300T bought at a discount doesn’t imply a “lesser“ watch any more than buying a Rolex Sub for a premium implies a ”better” one.
> 
> Buying grey market without a factory warranty is a different topic.


You beat me to the punch. Something about great minds


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

xian said:


> You beat me to the punch. Something about great minds


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

Ryeguy said:


> WoS has 3 locations in the UK. You should be able to get a discount code which could be applied to a Doxa purchase.
> 
> Discount availability and brand confidence are separate in my mind. Lots of AD’s offer discounts on various brands. The watch is the watch. A 300T bought at a discount doesn’t imply a “lesser“ watch any more than buying a Rolex Sub for a premium implies a ”better” one.
> 
> Buying grey market without a factory warranty is a different topic.


Like I said. Zero discount from WoS.

I don’t feel non discounted watches are better, it just upholds the value of the brand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Davida3544 said:


> Like I said. Zero discount from WoS.
> 
> I don’t feel non discounted watches are better, it just upholds the value of the brand.
> 
> ...


Really? You don't get this when you go to their site?


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

xian said:


> I’m just as confused as you Munks. How does not giving a discount equate to confidence in a brand? Rolexes used to be had at discount, and I don’t think anyone had less confidence in the brand as a result. Do you also not negotiate prices when buying a new car, as you’d thus find your car less confidence inspiring?
> 
> Your full price purchase tithe to the Doxa gods doesn’t make you more of a believer in my eyes


I’m no business expert by a long shot but it doesn’t take much thought to realise that discounts devalue a brand. It’s understandable if cash flow is an issue. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

Ryeguy said:


> Really? You don't get this when you go to their site?
> 
> View attachment 16684133


Omg! You’re right, I do get that but unfortunately it’s not usable for Doxa.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## xian (Feb 3, 2021)

Davida3544 said:


> I’m no business expert by a long shot but it doesn’t take much thought to realise that discounts devalue a brand. It’s understandable if cash flow is an issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wait what, WOS likely purchases these outright from Doxa. If anything it would be a WOS cash flow issue, not Doxa. 

Even then, it’s unlikely a cash flow issue for WOS as well as they’re a massive company. This 100 dollar incentive is just a way for them to draw you in.

Actually I think it takes way too much thought to believe that discounts devalue a brand, and I suspect you’re over analyzing the scenario. Many ADs offer a discount (or at least did) to help convince you to buy a watch. I would never walk into Blancpain and walk out if they offered me a discount on a Fifty Fathoms.


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

WoS said Doxa didn’t allow discounts 

Jura and Goldsmiths said the same 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

ie_benitex said:


> Based on last call watches are stock at customs.


When did you speak with them? I was given no indication that they had received stock when I spoke with them a few days ago and it sounds like the same story from other folks who spoke with them recently. Just want to make sure we aren't getting conflicting messaging from JS


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

xian said:


> Wait what, WOS likely purchases these outright from Doxa. If anything it would be a WOS cash flow issue, not Doxa.
> 
> Even then, it’s unlikely a cash flow issue for WOS as well as they’re a massive company. This 100 dollar incentive is just a way for them to draw you in.
> 
> Actually I think it takes way too much thought to believe that discounts devalue a brand, and I suspect you’re over analyzing the scenario. Many ADs offer a discount (or at least did) to help convince you to buy a watch. I would never walk into Blancpain and walk out if they offered me a discount on a Fifty Fathoms.


If anything, discounts to me build brand loyalty. I have received discounts on Tudor, Seiko, Grand Seiko and Hamilton from my primary AD and is has built that AD's reputation with me and those brands, knowing that I am getting a better deal than a layperson who buys online or walks in off the street.


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## ie_benitex (Mar 31, 2018)

WRXtranceformed said:


> When did you speak with them? I was given no indication that they had received stock when I spoke with them a few days ago and it sounds like the same story from other folks who spoke with them recently. Just want to make sure we aren't getting conflicting messaging from JS


This morning


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

ie_benitex said:


> This morning


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

The watches stuck in customs were received last Friday 6/3 and all orders will ship this week starting 6- 7 weeks a month before yesterday the day after tomorrow and a fortnight. That’s a Jomashop promise.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

"Watches being stuck in customs" and "Our vendor is being difficult to deal with" don't exactly jive with each other. I don't love the mixed signals that JS is sending, which is definitely affecting my confidence that we'll ever see a 26% off Doxa landing at our doors


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

WRXtranceformed said:


> "Watches being stuck in customs" and "Our vendor is being difficult to deal with" don't exactly jive with each other. I don't love the mixed signals that JS is sending, which is definitely affecting my confidence that we'll ever see a 26% off Doxa landing at our doors


Of all times I've called and all the people I spoke with, the one yesterday really seemed the most competent and I get the impression she wouldn't make up "bad news" to tell me in the name of customer service...

"_Sir, we don't have a single Doxa in stock, no tracking or bill of lading for a shipment from our vendor and we don't know when or if they will ship_".....is not what you want tell a customer to brighten his day after waiting 3.5 months for an order. Its a little late in the game for Joma to change their approach to under promise and over deliver 

The time I have spent listening to their hold music and broken company mantra is a half day of my life I'll never get back...


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Davida3544 said:


> WoS said Doxa didn’t allow discounts
> 
> Jura and Goldsmiths said the same
> 
> ...


Really? 

I didn’t see anything on the WoS discount that said it could not be used on specific brands.

As a matter of fact, when I put a Doxa in my shopping cart at WoS, I get a free Montblanc gift included (obviously worthless as it was free) and the opportunity to enter a discount code. 

Not sure why that discount code option would be there if nothing could be applied against it.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Mayors has a $100 discount code too FYI, it should work on Doxa no problem


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

There are two $100 off codes that I know work for DOXA's on WoS


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Munks337 said:


> There are two $100 off codes that I know work for DOXA's on WoS


Ooooooo…. Can you stack ‘em for $200 off?


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

BigBluefish said:


> Ooooooo…. Can you stack ‘em for $200 off?


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## xian (Feb 3, 2021)

BigBluefish said:


> Ooooooo…. Can you stack ‘em for $200 off?


All of those discounts is too much brand devaluation at that point, and it may just amount to libel. Tread carefully partner


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

xian said:


> All of those discounts is too much brand devaluation at that point, and it may just amount to libel. Tread carefully partner


As in... to devalue to a realistic plateau consistent with other brands offering similarly spec'd watches in the same retro styled motif?


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## xian (Feb 3, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> As in... to devalue to a realistic plateau consistent with other brands offering similarly spec'd watches in the same retro styled motif?


Yes, some could say it would bring it down closer to a value that many would deem appropriate for the specifications and history offered… maybe even driving more people to pick up the watch for themselves (Perhaps I’m in this boat)

Others would say it devalues the brand to receive a discount on their watch, as it imparts less confidence. (I’m still unsure of how this works out. I’m just having some fun at this point)


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## MKN (Mar 27, 2012)

Davida3544 said:


> WoS said Doxa didn’t allow discounts
> 
> Jura and Goldsmiths said the same
> 
> ...


I know that this is the guideline for Jura and they have several brands where the discounts won’t apply, like Doxa and Damasko.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

Ryeguy said:


> Really?
> 
> I didn’t see anything on the WoS discount that said it could not be used on specific brands.
> 
> ...


Yes “really”.

You seen determined to prove me wrong but I can assure you, that discount can’t be applied to Doxa.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

xian said:


> Yes, some could say it would bring it down closer to a value that many would deem appropriate for the specifications and history offered… maybe even driving more people to pick up the watch for themselves (Perhaps I’m in this boat)
> 
> Others would say it devalues the brand to receive a discount on their watch, as it imparts less confidence. (I’m still unsure of how this works out. I’m just having some fun at this point)


I really don’t think there is any argument that discounting devalues a brand. 
Confidence comes from knowing that the second hand valve of your investment is elevated by the lack of discount. ( Fun isn’t it?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Davida3544 said:


> Yes “really”.
> 
> You seen determined to prove me wrong but I can assure you, that discount can’t be applied to Doxa.
> 
> ...


I honestly don’t care. It is just that others seem to have been able to successfully apply various discount codes and I see no language on the WoS site coupon with exclusions listed, yet you are adamant it cannot be done.

Plus, your perspective about discounts devaluing a brand is so nonsensical to me, I find myself questioning anything else you say. 

If I were truly truly interested in getting a Doxa, I’d certainly give that discount code a shot.

And, on edit, I did try it and you are clearly wrong. The WoS discount code works perfect on a Doxa purchase.


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

You are in the US. I’m in the U K. Discount doesn’t work for me over here.

With regards to discounts not devaluing a brand, that’s not my opinion only. Try Google as it may inform you.

Good day.

Edit: not interested in any more Doxa purchases at the moment as I have too may at four.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Davida3544 said:


> I really don’t think there is any argument that discounting devalues a brand.
> Confidence comes from knowing that the second hand valve of your investment is elevated by the lack of discount. ( Fun isn’t it?)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The second hand value of your investment is set by the market conditions at the time of sale and has little to do with the original purchase price of the investment itself. 

Items are routinely sold at a loss (or gain).

I really hope you are not a financial advisor.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Davida3544 said:


> You are in the US. I’m in the U K. Discount doesn’t work for me over here.
> 
> With regards to discounts not devaluing a brand, that’s not my opinion only. Try Google as it may inform you.
> 
> ...


Your opinion, sure but clearly these brands don't agree otherwise the use of coupon codes and discounts would be written into their MAP programs. In many cases authorized resellers of brands are even reimbursed by the brands to offer these coupons to promote sales. It comes from a marketing and Co-Op budget within the dealer agreement.


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

Ryeguy said:


> The second hand value of your investment is set by the market conditions at the time of sale and has little to do with the original purchase price of the investment itself.
> 
> Items are routinely sold at a loss (or gain).
> 
> I really hope you are not a financial advisor.


Touché 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Well, another day in Joma purgatory….

I was looking forward to comparing the 300T to my old school Seiko MM300.

I’ve owned this watch since new and it was one of my first “grails” as a collector. It is hard to compare values as prices and specs have changed on the MM300 over the years, but I’m pretty sure mine was less than $1,500 brand new from an AD.


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## xian (Feb 3, 2021)

Davida3544 said:


> I really don’t think there is any argument that discounting devalues a brand.
> Confidence comes from knowing that the second hand valve of your investment is elevated by the lack of discount. ( Fun isn’t it?)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I maintain my stance that it doesn’t devalue a brand. As discussed by others, second hand prices are set by a world of factors, and of course vary greatly by model even within the same brand.

I suspect this discussion has run its course at this point


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## newhaven1410 (Jan 4, 2018)

I'm not giving up dammit!!! *26% or Bust!*


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

newhaven1410 said:


> I'm not giving up dammit!!! *26% or Bust!*



NO WAY!

"Did we give up when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor?"...."Nothing is over until we decide it is..."


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

You’re still at it here? 🤪

Good grief! In that amount of time others can conceive a child, deliver it, raise it, and send it off to college 😉


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> You’re still at it here? 🤪
> 
> Good grief! In that amount of time others can conceive a child, deliver it, raise it, and send it off to college 😉


The gestation of most humans is @9 months... Chinchillas average about 110 days, so if we are giving birth and raising chinchillas, your comparison is spot on...

#26%er+$50OFF&FreeShipping


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

F it, im gettin’ the perfume!


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Is today the day?


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> The gestation of most humans is @9 months... Chinchillas average about 110 days, so if we are giving birth and raising chinchillas, your comparison is spot on...
> 
> #26%er+$50OFF&FreeShipping



I don't know about you, but I'm beginning to suspect Bill Yao is running JomaShop.

Let's see which takes longer. The Project 300 took close to 10 years. This Jomashop Doxa 300 seems like it could go the distance!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Well, I tagged Doxa and even sent them a message about the idea of a discounted group buy for the large number of potential customers whose sale they could hijack from Joma (effectively eliminating the Doxa demand from Joma should Joma ever manage to get stock). Doxa has been active here a couple times since with no response to me privately (I didn't really expect them to) and no further interaction in this group thread after their statement of discontent of the situation early on.

I'd say they had a golden opportunity to nip this in the bud and gain loyal customers. Opportunity missed.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Meanwhile, due to my browsing habits, every time I read the new posts in this thread, a Doxa 600T Professional stares back at me from the advertising pane on the right-hand side of the page.

Just can't take the stress--must resist temptation to buy from Doxa ...


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> Well, I tagged Doxa and even sent them a message about the idea of a discounted group buy for the large number of potential customers whose sale they could hijack from Joma (effectively eliminating the Doxa demand from Joma should Joma ever manage to get stock). Doxa has been active here a couple times since with no response to me privately (I didn't really expect them to) and no further interaction in this group thread after their statement of discontent of the situation early on.
> 
> I'd say they had a golden opportunity to nip this in the bud and gain loyal customers. Opportunity missed.


DOXA's failure to monitor this subforum is ridiculous.

Truly a missed marketing opportunity.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> I'd say they had a golden opportunity to nip this in the bud and gain loyal customers. Opportunity missed.


You’re joking, right? 🤔 The majority of forumista in this waiting room have basically said that they only pulled the trigger with Jomashop because RRP -26% is a “fair price”, whereas buying directly from Doxa equates to being ripped off…

How would any luxury goods company in their right mind consider this a “golden opportunity” to gain loyal customers?

All that engaging in this kind of shenanigans would result in is to pi… off their RRP buyers by quite publicly showing them the finger.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

valerian839 said:


> DOXA's failure to monitor this subforum is ridiculous.
> 
> Truly a missed marketing opportunity.


This is 100% accurate. You have what, a number of committed buyers in at least high double digits here? Offer a group buy discount, lock in a factory warranty and a bunch of new clients. And build strong brand cred. 

It seems like a lot of brands are trying to reconnect with local enthusiast / collector communities (Seiko, Grand Seiko, Tudor, even AP) while Doxa seems focused on staying rigid and at arms length with the people who actually want to try their watches.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

paysdoufs said:


> You’re joking, right? 🤔 The majority of forumista in this waiting room have basically said that they only pulled the trigger with Jomashop because RRP -26% is a “fair price”, whereas buying directly from Doxa equates to being ripped off…
> 
> How would any luxury goods company in their right mind consider this a “golden opportunity” to gain loyal customers?
> 
> All that engaging in this kind of shenanigans would result in would be to pi… off their RRP buyers by quite publicly showing them the finger.


People in here feel that buying directly from Doxa _at current retail prices _equates to being ripped off.

I have no problem at all buying direct from a manufacturer. In fact I'm about to buy a Maranez Samui Vintage direct from Maranez (with a 20% off code) because I'm not sure that this Sub 300 is ever going to ship. But a lot of smaller brands are willing to offer strong discounts to gain new buyers. If Doxa really dislikes what is happening with Jomashop, the best way to give JS the middle finger would be to steal all of their potential buyers here and make some money off of it.


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## RonaldUlyssesSwanson (Apr 18, 2017)

Let me try this again below.


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## RonaldUlyssesSwanson (Apr 18, 2017)

drmdwebb said:


> Meanwhile, due to my browsing habits, every time I read the new posts in this thread, a Doxa 600T Professional stares back at me from the advertising pane on the right-hand side of the page.
> 
> Just can't take the stress--must resist temptation to buy from Doxa ...


This probably won’t help, but I’m thinking of offloading my 600T Pro here shortly. Ceramic bezel version.


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

RonaldUlyssesSwanson said:


> This probably won’t help, but I’m thinking of offloading my 600T Pro here shortly. Ceramic bezel version.


"YOUR CALL TO ADVENTURE" ... SHOP NOW


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

Munks337 said:


> "YOUR CALL TO ADVENTURE" ... SHOP NOW


damn, that should be Jomashop's motto.... all these changes to the shipping dates certainly have been an adventure!


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

WRXtranceformed said:


> (…) And build strong brand cred.


Offering random discounts on your bestsellers to some guys complaining publicly on the internet is absolutely the opposite of building a strong brand…



WRXtranceformed said:


> It seems like a lot of brands are trying to reconnect with local enthusiast / collector communities (Seiko, Grand Seiko, Tudor, even AP)…


And? Is a single one of these brands providing public discounts to their „enthusiasts“ and „collectors“? Obviously not. Why could that be, according to you? 



WRXtranceformed said:


> I have no problem at all buying direct from a manufacturer. In fact I'm about to buy a Maranez Samui Vintage direct from Maranez (*with a 20% off code*) because I'm not sure that this Sub 300 is ever going to ship.


You’re perfectly illustrating yourself why Doxa has nothing to gain from the strategy you’re proposing: They've positioned themselves very differently from Maranez, to whom you have turned to buy a stop gap once they offered enough discount.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

paysdoufs said:


> Offering random discounts on your bestsellers to some guys complaining publicly on the internet is absolutely the opposite of building a strong brand…
> 
> 
> And? Is a single one of these brands providing public discounts to their „enthusiasts“ and „collectors“? Obviously not. Why could that be, according to you?
> ...


Congrats on your demonstration of the multi-quote function. You win the WUS forum award of the day. 🏆


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> Offering random discounts on your bestsellers to some guys complaining publicly on the internet is absolutely the opposite of building a strong brand…
> 
> 
> And? Is a single one of these brands providing public discounts to their „enthusiasts“ and „collectors“? Obviously not. Why could that be, according to you?
> ...


You are entitled to your opinion as are we but just know you're against the majority here and if I may speak for many, from your first standoffish post in this thread, you have an arrogance about you that nobody actually likes. If you aren't part of the team, you should just go back into the landscape.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> You are entitled to your opinion as are we but just know you're against the majority here and if I may speak for many, from your first standoffish post in this thread, you have an arrogance about you that nobody actually likes. If you aren't part of the team, you should just go back into the landscape.


I'm glad I'm not the only one that picked up on that vibe. 🍻


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

paysdoufs said:


> Offering random discounts on your bestsellers to some guys complaining publicly on the internet is absolutely the opposite of building a strong brand…
> 
> 
> And? Is a single one of these brands providing public discounts to their „enthusiasts“ and „collectors“? Obviously not. Why could that be, according to you?
> ...


I mean what is their company brand now? A marketing team that comes on a forum just to whine about one of their ADs liquidating their stock, presumably because the brand doesn't have the strength to move units? And a brand known for sub par customer service and poor watch service experiences? You know what Seiko, Rolex/Tudor and Omega don't do? Come onto enthusiast forums to complain about grey market dealers.

Yes, Seiko regularly advertises discounts through their ecommerce sites, and their dealers / distributors also advertise discounts. You can get further discounts up to 25% on Seiko through an AD and with the right relationship up to 25% on Grand Seiko and Omega, and small discounts on Rolex and Tudor (I have gotten these discounts on four of these brands through ADs). If Doxa's stance is to avoid discounting their watches or discourage their ADs to discount, that's their choice. But AD and advertised discounting is not hurting any of those other brands.

My point with their positioning is that they have a below average reputation and brand perception right now, and doing something cool like a special group buy for a bunch of watch enthusiasts who clearly want to try one of their watches would go a long way to fixing that 🤷‍♂️


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Man, I thought Seiko fanboys were rough. Doxa fanboys could teach classes on it.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

WRXtranceformed said:


> I mean what is their company brand now? A marketing team that comes on a forum just to whine about one of their ADs liquidating their stock, presumably because the brand doesn't have the strength to move units? And a brand known for sub par customer service and poor watch service experiences? You know what Seiko, Rolex/Tudor and Omega don't do? Come onto enthusiast forums to complain about grey market dealers.
> 
> Yes, Seiko regularly advertises discounts through their ecommerce sites, and their dealers / distributors also advertise discounts. You can get further discounts up to 25% on Seiko through an AD and with the right relationship up to 25% on Grand Seiko and Omega, and small discounts on Rolex and Tudor (I have gotten these discounts on four of these brands through ADs). If Doxa's stance is to avoid discounting their watches or discourage their ADs to discount, that's their choice. But AD and advertised discounting is not hurting any of those other brands.
> 
> My point with their positioning is that they have a below average reputation and brand perception right now, and doing something cool like a special group buy for a bunch of watch enthusiasts who clearly want to try one of their watches would go a long way to fixing that 🤷‍♂️


You’re right that Doxa posting here in this thread (although only once and many moons ago) was probably an error…

For the rest, it looks like your examples are mostly referring to discounts by ADs, which is rather different from a manufacturer selling online discounting directly (BTW: It seems that if you pay cash or ask nicely, Doxa’s brick & mortar dealers actually can do a little something).

If that leaves us with Seiko, I’ll have to admit that I’ve never seen them offer discounts on their local web presence. On the other hand, why would I bother about looking up their prices there, if I know that I can get between 20 and 30% off RRP any day from their online resellers?

Does it hurt Seiko as a brand? I feel it does, but then again they’re such an industry giant that they probably don’t care (although their new CEO has said that improving the public perception of Seiko would be one of his key objectives).


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> (…) If you aren't part of the team, you should just go back into the landscape.


Be assured that I will 

Although not because you told me so, but rather because a “discussion” that only welcomes the majority groupthink is pretty pointless… Happy waiting for Godot!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> You’re right that Doxa posting here in this thread (although only once and many moons ago) was probably an error…
> 
> For the rest, it looks like your examples are mostly referring to discounts by ADs, which is rather different from a manufacturer selling online discounting directly (BTW: It seems that if you pay cash or ask nicely, Doxa’s brick & mortar dealers actually can do a little something).
> 
> ...


You're right.. manufacturers never offer discounts for Valentines Day, Presidents day, Fathers Day, Graduation, Mothers day, Memorial Day, First day of summer, Independence Day, your own birthday is you register, Summer Solstice, Last day of Summer, Back to School, Labor Day, Halloween, Black Friday, Thanksgiving, Cyber Monday, Cyber Week, Hanukkah, Sweetest Day, Christmas, Boxing Day, New Years Eve, New Years Day....Thats just in the USA and most Americans have no idea what the HELL Boxing Day even is...

Only retailers do that...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> Be assured that I will
> 
> Although not because you told me so, but rather because a “discussion” that only welcomes the majority groupthink is pretty pointless… Happy waiting for Godot!


Promise? Please.. peppered with group think sugar on it?

The thing about "group think" is that one must not be such an arse to be included amongst friends to have a group discussion. If one behaves in a manner that leaves him without those to have group discussions with, he really hasn't any other choice but to find "group think pointless...."


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Anyone can pay full retail for Doxa. They are massed produced and readily available.










26% off is 100% better


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

If I were running Doxa I wouldn't visit this forum at all. So many entitled sounding, overly critical, brand bashing "know it all watch marketing geniuses" here. I come here just for the laughs.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

RSM13 said:


> If I were running Doxa I wouldn't visit this forum at all. So many entitled sounding, overly critical, brand bashing "know it all watch marketing geniuses" here. I come here just for the laughs.


Cool story bro, but did you get your Doxa at 26% off?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

So, here's the thing........

We can argue all day whether discounting devalues a brand. But first of how do you define it and is your definition different to mine? Let's say it is in sales, I have yet to see anyone show me real facts that they suffer due to discounting. Do you have access to Doxa's sales or Seikos sales or Rolex? Nope. Let's look at other metrics, do you have data on those. Well, my mates say they won't buy another. Great, straw poll of 5 blokes in the pub in Bournemouth, 3 of whom have never owned a Seiko or Doxa etc etc. Yet, Seiko have maybe hundreds of thousands of customers globally. Does devalue mean people will see the brand now as something less than the must have to make people think I'm a cool guy? Yea go ask your facebook friends about that.

Without facts it's all conjecture or opinions. "Well, I personally think discounting devalues a brand", jolly good for you. Other people think it doesn't and jolly good for them too but it's good to have opinions and try to justify them. Beats the hell out of a forum with nothing but here's another picture of what I'm wearing today....as if anyone other than you actually gives a toss.

Do Doxa visit this forum? I have no hard facts to say they do, but they used to prior to the ICE era. Does Jan Edocs read the forum? I'm betting yes, because it is a bit of a litmus paper for what people think and want. Besides, I don't think he is the busiest CEO on the planet. What the heck else does he do to justify his superstar wages 

Are we a bunch of moaning, winging gits who think they could run Doxa better than the incumbent? Don't know about you lot, but yes, I do 

Douglas Adams got it wrong....42 isn't the ultimate answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything.....26 is.


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

Well...... has anyone received their Doxa at 26% off retail? If so, the discount was a great thing. If not, the discount was a great thing to talk about.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Damn, that's good. I'm going to steal it and claim it as my own for a lot of scenarios. Thank you.



Ticktocker said:


> If so, the discount was a great thing. If not, the discount was a great thing to talk about.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

This has to be one of my favorite threads in quite some time. I only wish the 26ers hadn’t had the rug pulled out from under them.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Have to agree with you. What started out as a plug for a discount has turned into a 64 page epic of biblical proportions.



drmdwebb said:


> This has to be one of my favorite threads in quite some time. I only wish the 26ers hadn’t had the rug pulled out from under them.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

RSM13 said:


> If I were running Doxa I wouldn't visit this forum at all. So many entitled sounding, overly critical, brand bashing "know it all watch marketing geniuses" here. I come here just for the laughs.


If I were Doxa fanboy I'd be embarrassed about my grasp on reality and the watch market.... but I guess I'm entitled for being educated and not overly moved (blinded) by brand loyalty.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

I love the nickname: JomaDoxa! How about JomaDoxaGeddon?


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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

Only in the Doxa forum could JOMA (of all company’s) string people along for months and months with lie after lie and people say it’s something wrong with Doxa’s management. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

martin_blank said:


> Only in the Doxa forum could JOMA (of all company’s) string people along for months and months with lie after lie and people say it’s something wrong with Doxa’s management.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey Martin, don’t go talking sense here. You are going to ruin the entertainment value of this thread. 

I just reread Doxa’s statement posted in the early days of this thread and it seemed like they have an almost adversarial relationship with their AD’s. Doxa states they have a tracking mechanism for distribution supply chain traceability (likely through the use of serial number tracking) and warns of “consequences” for the AD who supplied Joma. 

My only advice for Doxa management is to be less concerned with AD punishment and more concerned with why the situation occurred in the first place. Here is a hint: it is because some AD somewhere had Doxa stock they could not sell at the Doxa required price point. Now they need to ask themselves why. 

In my opinion, a luxury good brand who is keen on protecting their selling price has a responsibility to their AD’s to market their products in such a way as to justify that price point. Maintaining high levels of demand for their product requires effort. In my opinion, it is simply unfair to contractually fix a selling price and then do little to drive market demand. (For example, this thread is the busiest I’ve seen the Doxa sub forum in ages.)

The only reason grey market dealers like Joma exist is for when this Brand Owner / AD relationship breaks down. As I said earlier, in the absence of a robust marketing program to continually drive demand, the market will set the price point for an item, not the brand. 

Years ago, as an early collector, someone told me the watch price zone between $1k - $5K was to be mostly avoided. You can get a very good watch for less than $1K, and you need to spend more than $5K to gets something truly special. I’m sure we can all think of exceptions to this rule, but I think generally speaking it is accurate. 

If the economic pundits I hear on the news are correct, I foresee a significant increase in this sort of situation of AD’s dumping stock on the grey market (not just Doxa, but across all luxury good brands) as disposable cash dries up with consumers. 

My opinion is that luxury brands that fly in this “neither fish nor fowl” (AKA “entry level” luxury) price zone, such as Doxa, will be most effected by this economic downturn.

We’ll see.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

The truly sad thing is that Doxagate seems to have simply fizzled. Out with a whimper not a bang.

It would have been so much more gratifying had it ended with an Interpol sting intercepting a shipment of a couple hundred stolen DOXAs with the proceeds to have been sent to some Dr. Evil-esque character in his secret volcano lair.

Instead, we get a page of perfume that probably doesn’t even smell like a Doxa.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Have to agree with you. What started out as a plug for a discount has turned into a 64 page epic of biblical proportions.


who knew this little diddy would be close to 100K views in such a short time?


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

BigBluefish said:


> The truly sad thing is that Doxagate seems to have simply fizzled. Out with a whimper not a bang.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

martin_blank said:


> Only in the Doxa forum could JOMA (of all company’s) string people along for months and months with lie after lie and people say it’s something wrong with Doxa’s management.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Doxa's reply on this thread is what's wrong with Doxa's management brother.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

WRXtranceformed said:


> Doxa's reply on this thread is what's wrong with Doxa's management brother.


What was wrong with it? They communicated their position on Joma trying to sell their watches and the implications on the warranty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Watchout63 said:


> Cool story bro, but did you get your Doxa at 26% off?



no, but I am not a “poor” so I don’t sweat that.

sorry to hear you have to scrape nickels together and go through the emotional stress Jomas is putting you through to buy a relatively inexpensive watch.

Hope you get your discount.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

RSM13 said:


> no, but I am not a poor so I don’t sweat that.
> 
> sorry to hear you have to scrape nickels together and go through the emotional stress Jomas is putting you through to buy a relatively inexpensive watch.
> 
> ...


LOL.

Flexing on the poors with two Omegas, two Rolexes, and then a bunch of Seikos and Citizens…


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

valerian839 said:


> LOL.
> 
> Flexing on the poors with two Omegas, two Rolexes, and then a bunch of Seikos and Citizens…


Let’s see your stable Rockefeller.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

RSM13 said:


> Let’s see your stable Rockefeller.


I’m not the one purporting to be Rockefeller.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

Scraping pennies together for an inexpensive watch? 
Sadly some folks aren't as well off as others, but to blatantly put down those folks is a bit crass. 
On the other hand, I suspect the 26% crew for the most part are more than capable of buying the watch at retail, but just believe at that price point the watch is overpriced, hence jumping on the 26% discount. 
The only time you should look down on someone is if you are helping them up. 
As far as this thread goes, hopefully the 26% models materialise and everyone receives what they ordered.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

Seikonut1967 said:


> Scraping pennies together for an inexpensive watch?
> Sadly some folks aren't as well off as others, but to blatantly put down those folks is a bit crass.
> On the other hand, I suspect the 26% crew for the most part are more than capable of buying the watch at retail, but just believe at that price point the watch is overpriced, hence jumping on the 26% discount.
> The only time you should look down on someone is if you are helping them up.
> As far as this thread goes, hopefully the 26% models materialise and everyone receives what they ordered.


well-said.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

RSM13 said:


> no, but I am not a “poor” so I don’t sweat that.
> 
> sorry to hear you have to scrape nickels together and go through the emotional stress Jomas is putting you through to buy a relatively inexpensive watch.
> 
> ...


I must be missing your point as I can’t see it but if you’re so rich why the need to prove it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Not sure I agree with that. As far as I can tell no-one is blaming the Doxa management for the Joma fiasco. Joma stacked false info upon false info. 3- 5 week, 3 days, back to 3 weeks etc. 26% then no stock, then more stock but at 10%. Not one rep had a consistent story. Now, I'm guessing Joma didn't set out to do this and I'll bet a lot of it is because of their (supposed) supplier. Not sure how anyone could blame it on Doxa management.

What people have said, and I agree with is Doxa's poor handling of a "crisis". Their response to the Synchron Military was laughable. Their response talking about how many people they employed etc, was BS and now the Joma response. Seems the only time they show their heads here is to put their foot in their mouths. But, so what! Doxa is a micro brand. They are basically a one trick pony like lots of others, selling watches based on a design that is 50 years old but updated with different materials and dial colours. Again, nothing wrong with that. It has worked for the last 20 years and no matter what, I love the brand and (most) of their watches.

But, going back to the Army. I think, maybe selfishly, that they did a number on us rabid fan boys with the Army. They made a cool watch which many of us had been waiting for. They made it way different to the Synchron and vintage and released 100 at an eye watering price. They maybe only had 80 for sale after everyone involved got one. How many here could either afford one, want to pay the price or manage to get one? Stick your hand up, Bob and do you still have it?

Looking at the ones for sale now at 8 to 9000 bucks, I'm betting a few were sold to the perennial scalpers and turn a profit boys who may now be catching a sever cold with their Rolexes, but that's another story. Good luck to them, they saw an opportunity and went for it, but if Doxa had made 200 and sold them at half the price, people like you and me would now own one and be posting pics and talking about it. The 26%ers would now be the 50%ers and be sporting a nice new Doxa Army. Doxa would actually have made more money and us fan boys would be happy.

The Doxa Army has sunk without a trace. The Synchron Military has a thread which is 135 pages on the Dive watch forum and the 26% Joma thread is at 65 pages.



martin_blank said:


> Only in the Doxa forum could JOMA (of all company’s) string people along for months and months with lie after lie and people say it’s something wrong with Doxa’s management.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

RSM13 said:


> no, but I am not a “poor” so I don’t sweat that.
> 
> sorry to hear you have to scrape nickels together and go through the emotional stress Jomas is putting you through to buy a relatively inexpensive watch.
> 
> ...


Calling people "poor" for only showing interests in a brand because they only see value in them when they are heavily discounted is a super d*ck move. You don't know these people from Adam. I know for fact many people here have collections that make your feeble little flex look like a department store special. What kind of immature, arrogant jackass says something like that?!

The adults are talking here kiddo... head on back to the kids table...


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

RSM13 said:


> no, but I am not a “poor” so I don’t sweat that.
> 
> sorry to hear you have to scrape nickels together and go through the emotional stress Jomas is putting you through to buy a relatively inexpensive watch.
> 
> ...


Ahh, hate to burst your bubble there Sparky, but I didn't place an order. I'm sure Doxa will invite you to the next Christmas party.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> Ahh, hate to burst your bubble there Sparky, but I didn't place an order. I'm sure Doxa will invite you to the next Christmas party.


Maybe not the Christmas party but certainly a coupon code for 10-15% that he's never going to use because he's rich and only pays full retail for his watches so he can brag about on forums...


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Ooooh - y’all mad!

Like I said I am just here for the laughs.

This place is a never ending source of entertainment… loving every second of it.

keep ‘em coming boys.

Some of you will be waiting 2023 for Jomas to ship your watch and the rest will just ***** about a watch manufacturer that is probably laughing as hard as I am about your incessant whining about a watch they want so bad but seem to hate so much.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

RSM13 said:


> Ooooh - y’all mad!
> 
> Like I said I am just here for the laughs.
> 
> ...


It appears you cannot distinguish between love of the watch and frustration with the watch manufacturer’s business model/pricing.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

RSM13 said:


> Ooooh - y’all mad!
> 
> Like I said I am just here for the laughs.
> 
> ...


I figured you were here still to brag about always paying retail for your uninspiring vanilla collection that wreaks of a noob with a credit card and a year of YouTube subscriptions to Teddy Baldassarre, A Blog To Watch or whatever else is the flavor of the week..


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## McDLT (Nov 10, 2009)

I saw a few mentions of Maranez discounts in this thread. How do I find this 20% off code? Thank you!



WRXtranceformed said:


> People in here feel that buying directly from Doxa _at current retail prices _equates to being ripped off.
> 
> I have no problem at all buying direct from a manufacturer. In fact I'm about to buy a Maranez Samui Vintage direct from Maranez (with a 20% off code) because I'm not sure that this Sub 300 is ever going to ship. But a lot of smaller brands are willing to offer strong discounts to gain new buyers. If Doxa really dislikes what is happening with Jomashop, the best way to give JS the middle finger would be to steal all of their potential buyers here and make some money off of it.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

The Doxa forum is the clown show of Watchuseek.

It’s legendary.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

RSM13 said:


> The Doxa forum is the clown show of Watchuseek.
> 
> It’s legendary.


Yet here you are with your staring roll in the clown show... I bet you were only willing to pay MSRP to perform....

Thank YOU for making this place fun. Without your ignorant comments, we would all still be talking out the other cool watches we have bought while waiting for Joma to come up with their next great excuse...

Atta boy Tiger!


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

McDLT said:


> I saw a few mentions of Maranez discounts in this thread. How do I find this 20% off code? Thank you!



It's right on their Main Shop page:

*We are running a sale from June 5th till 10th.
Enter code JUNE
to get 20% discount.

No shipping to Russia or Mexico

edit: Looks like it only ran to the 10th of June. Maybe drop them an email and ask if you can still get the deal? *


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## McDLT (Nov 10, 2009)

Watchout63 said:


> It's right on their Main Shop page:
> 
> *We are running a sale from June 5th till 10th.
> Enter code JUNE
> ...


Doh! There it is! I was using the drop down to go directly to the individual watch sections! I didn't even realize there was a main shopping page.

Torn though. I like the green samui vintage, and it's not a color doxa itself offers as far as I know. Or do I go for the safer more versatile silver searambler style.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

What.... not this one  Mine just left Fedex Memphis











McDLT said:


> Doh! There it is! I was using the drop down to go directly to the individual watch sections! I didn't even realize there was a main shopping page.
> 
> Torn though. I like the green samui vintage, and it's not a color doxa itself offers as far as I know. Or do I go for the safer more versatile silver searambler style.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

RSM13 said:


> The Doxa forum is the clown show of Watchuseek.
> 
> It’s legendary.


It sure is, but not for the reason you think.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

RSM13 said:


> The Doxa forum is the clown show of Watchuseek.
> 
> It’s legendary.


You seem to have learned quite a lot in your 2 years / 233 posts of WUS participation.

I actually wanted to take a moment to publicly thank you for your participation in this thread. 

Every once in a while we need a participant such as yourself to remind everyone how to use the “ignore” button.


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## bigvic (May 15, 2010)

Watchout63 said:


> It's right on their Main Shop page:
> 
> *We are running a sale from June 5th till 10th.
> Enter code JUNE
> ...


Drat and double Drat! The JUNE code was working up until yesterday but not this morning when I went to confirm my vintage steel orange Samui order. 
Snooze you lose is spose. Until the next code then…


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## McDLT (Nov 10, 2009)

Funnily enough, that was the first variation that caught my eye! But I was looking for the vintage case and domed crystal you’d written so positively about on your website. Not to mention, the Irishstar is sold out!

Not to take the thread further off course, but I’m curious about the titanium case. The site mentions the crown is titanium with steel core, does that mean the crown tube and inner threads of the crown are steel? I’m worried about stripped threads that are common with titanium cases.




Flyingdoctor said:


> What.... not this one  Mine just left Fedex Memphis
> 
> View attachment 16693398


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Good question. I'll check soon as I get it. 

You must be a mind reader because I'm actually going to transplant my Irishstar into a Samui Vintage case. Bit of work to do but I'll be doing a kind of Irishstar article / review thing showing that and comparing the Titanium version of the watch



McDLT said:


> Funnily enough, that was the first variation that caught my eye! But I was looking for the vintage case and domed crystal you’d written so positively about on your website. Not to mention, the Irishstar is sold out!
> 
> Not to take the thread further off course, but I’m curious about the titanium case. The site mentions the crown is titanium with steel core, does that mean the crown tube and inner threads of the crown are steel? I’m worried about stripped threads that are common with titanium cases.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)




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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)




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## rhaykal (Feb 10, 2014)

I can proudly say I am no longer a 26%er. Finally decided to cancel my order this morning. Sure there is no harm in waiting and waiting but i decided it's just time to move on. 

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

rhaykal said:


> I can proudly say I am no longer a 26%er. Finally decided to cancel my order this morning. Sure there is no harm in waiting and waiting but i decided it's just time to move on.


One of the hardest parts of life is learning when to cut your losses and move on with your life. I admire the 26%ers and want to see you succeed! But what do they say about insanity? Doing the same thing over an over and expecting a different result?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

But this thread is helping keep the forum alive  

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed a big drop off in forum / facebook / instagram posts about watches? I know there is always a bit of a drop when summer hits but this year the only places where I see a boatload of action is forum threads talking about the implosion of high end watch prices.



drmdwebb said:


> One of the hardest parts of life is learning when to cut your losses and move on with your life. I admire the 26%ers and want to see you succeed! But what do they say about insanity? Doing the same thing over an over and expecting a different result?


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## McDLT (Nov 10, 2009)

I noticed the Maranez army titanium description does not talk about a steel core, so maybe that’s an improvement Maranez made with the vintage case? I’ve emailed Maranez also to confirm what the steel core means.

This is no longer an impulse buy!

I look forward to your article or any tidbits you might share about this model in the forum..  or 



Flyingdoctor said:


> Good question. I'll check soon as I get it.
> 
> You must be a mind reader because I'm actually going to transplant my Irishstar into a Samui Vintage case. Bit of work to do but I'll be doing a kind of Irishstar article / review thing showing that and comparing the Titanium version of the watch


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

rhaykal said:


> I can proudly say I am no longer a 26%er. Finally decided to cancel my order this morning. Sure there is no harm in waiting and waiting but i decided it's just time to move on.
> 
> Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk


I have not cancelled mine but I JUST won the AM 300T that just ended on eBay where my max bid was "MSRP-26%-$50.00 plus my local tax" and I came in $9.00 under my invoice from Joma.

I'll likely cancel my order as soon as I get the Ebay Doxa in hand. A 300T Aqua Marine on the BOR for $1355.00 is palatable.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

drmdwebb said:


> One of the hardest parts of life is learning when to cut your losses and move on with your life. I admire the 26%ers and want to see you succeed! But what do they say about insanity? Doing the same thing over an over and expecting a different result?


I'm letting my order ride, but I don't really care. I'm under no illusion that I'll ever see a watch from Joma.

I'm actually kinda curious on how Joma deals with this sort of thing?

I've talked with other collectors who have had orders canceled before by Joma, but those were more along the lines of "we had 30 in stock, we sold 31, sorry - your order missed the cut". Basically having to cancel a small number of late orders.

In this case, Joma might have to cancel hundreds of orders. I know Joma is a big company, but I have got to assume no vendor wants to cancel $150,000 (+/- my guesstimate) of accounts receivable.

A smart move (if I were running Joma) would be to cancel the Doxa orders and provide a "single use" coupon code unique to the canceled order number. This way you might be able to generate a little bit of revenue (even if at a reduced margin) and also retain a bit of customer satisfaction. 

If nothing else, it was nice to (virtually) meet here, and as Doc said, it was nice to talk about something other than the impending implosion of the luxury watch market.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

@Flyingdoctor on a side note... 100K views on the thread  Congrats for starting and participating in one of those controversial threads in WUS history


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Is it just me or has anyone else noticed a big drop off in forum / facebook / instagram posts about watches? I know there is always a bit of a drop when summer hits but this year the only places where I see a boatload of action is forum threads talking about the implosion of high end watch prices.


I wonder how world wide economic problems effect watch collecting? I wasn't really into watches during the last one. 2008-2010.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

I truly admire all the 26%ers here and their eternally springing hope. But this just popped up on my professional LinkedIn history, and I had to share it here:


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

I love the part about forgiving in the past "so many times."


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

martin_blank said:


> Only in the Doxa forum could JOMA (of all company’s) string people along for months and months with lie after lie and people say it’s something wrong with Doxa’s management.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Amen, how is Doxa even involved? Jomaslop can put anything on their website, doesn’t mean it was officially sanctioned or collaborated.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Ryeguy said:


> You seem to have learned quite a lot in your 2 years / 233 posts of WUS participation.
> 
> I actually wanted to take a moment to publicly thank you for your participation in this thread.
> 
> Every once in a while we need a participant such as yourself to remind everyone how to use the “ignore” button.


Unfortunately the Doxa forum is unique in that it has an unusually large amount of posters who do nothing but ***** about:

Doxa ownership Sucks...they dont know what they are doing. 
The new watches are horrible and waaaay over priced.
They have no respect for their customers.
They don't respond to every whine and gripe that is posted on this forum.
The watches are cheaply made, probably in China.
The watches are too expensive.
Rick Marei was a God and the Jenny family has no clue and is running the brand in the ground.
Jan Edocs is an idiot.

Go to the Seiko, Sinn, Damasko, Omega, or almost any other forum (except Rolex that's a different crowd whiners) and you will not find this level of childish whining and complaining. 

Bottom line is Doxa is a well made watch using a Sellita movement like many many other MFR's with lots of history and is relatively affordable to most.

You would never know it visiting this place.

The Doxa hate on here is over the top and gets so hilarious it is like watching the boat ramp at the 4th of July.

God Bless.


----------



## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

Flyingdoctor said:


> But this thread is helping keep the forum alive
> 
> Is it just me or has anyone else noticed a big drop off in forum / facebook / instagram posts about watches? I know there is always a bit of a drop when summer hits but this year the only places where I see a boatload of action is forum threads talking about the implosion of high end watch prices.


Believe it is the $8 gallon of gas and other eco micro metrics pinching the watch penny.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

RSM13 said:


> it is like watching the boat ramp at the 4th of July.
> 
> God Bless.


Haha, that is a comedy show. Good analogy.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Tough question to answer but I guess different people will be affected differently depending on their socio-economic situation

I'm an elder statesman in this game now. I really have reached the end of my collecting life and I can see how the drivers etc have changed over that life. Will a recession affect my watch collecting? Not really because there isn't much to affect. Also..... ah heck, it's lunchtime, I have time to bore you.... and everyone loves pics  

I wasn't a watch collector at all until I bought my first Rolex in 1991. Bought it secondhand at a market in Guangzhou, Southern China. Got it real cheap, like, it has to be fake, cheap. Took it into the Rolex AD in Hong Kong and was pleasantly surprised to have it confirmed it was a genuine 1977 Air-king. Ignore the bracelet, it is one I used so my wife could wear it. Rolex bracelets will only size down so small.









I had bought a couple of fake Rolexes when I lived in the Middle East previously, but they were "gifts" for my friends when I went back home to Ireland. I bought the Air-King because I was upwardly mobile financially and wanted something a bit more respectable rather than my old Casio. 

I worked with a lot of commercial divers in the Middle East and in the North Sea and the Submariner was the watch of choice for those guys and I wanted one but spending big bucks on a watch was a hard thing to do. I eventually did buy one, but it really is a bland looking watch so every once in a while I swap out the bezel insert, probably to the disgust of the Rolex fanboy crowd.










The Air-King was commandeered by my wife which should have alerted me to how things would go....  

It was about this time I saw my first Doxa, had to wait a couple of years but the rest as they say is history and you can all see what happened to my watch collecting habit. However, I'm a bit different in that many of the watches I own / owned were not bought out of collecting but for reviews / comparison, so maybe I'm not a "real" collector. But it can feel like it  










I no longer have 2 of the watches above.

The thing about collecting is that you can justify your spend depending oh how enthusiastic you are no matter what the economy is doing. The shenanigans that was happening in the Rolex / AP etc watch world was not about collecting in my opinion.




Munks337 said:


> I wonder how world wide economic problems effect watch collecting? I wasn't really into watches during the last one. 2008-2010.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Crazy Cajun said:


> Amen, how is Doxa even involved? Jomaslop can put anything on their website, doesn’t mean it was officially sanctioned or collaborated.


I don't think anyone implied this Joma thing was officially sanctioned or in collaboration with Doxa management. Doxa has been pretty clear in their statement that it was not.

The only points made regarding Doxa management and this whole Joma fiasco (which I have echoed) is they seem to be more focused on looking for and silencing this AD "leak to the grey market" than they are about investigating why this occurred in the first place.

If AD's were selling (or anticipated continually selling) Doxa's at list price and in decent volume, then we'd see never see Doxa watches end up in a grey market dealer.

The fact this Joma / Doxa thing _almost_ happened should be a wake-up call to Doxa managers. The brand is too small, with too few AD's, to let this happen.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

RSM13 said:


> The Doxa hate on here is over the top and gets so hilarious it is like watching the boat ramp at the 4th of July.
> 
> God Bless.


I wouldn't know. My boat is too large to trailer and is on a private slip at my marina. 

Is this how we forum flex? Am I doing it right?


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

Ryeguy said:


> Is this how we forum flex? Am I doing it right?




Not exactly.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Tough question to answer but I guess different people will be affected differently depending on their socio-economic situation.
> 
> The thing about collecting is that you can justify your spend depending oh how enthusiastic you are no matter what the economy is doing. The shenanigans that was happening in the Rolex / AP etc watch world was not about collecting in my opinion.


Remembering back to the last big economic downturns, I think consumer spending is impacted, but in sometimes unpredictable ways.

For example, I seem to remember the micro brewing industry really coming alive during the economic downturn in the early '90's.

Maybe people weren't going out to a fancy dinner at a restaurant, so they invested in a fancy beer or nice bottle of wine to make dinner at home more special.

I tend to think a similar thing will happen again here.

My prediction is the hardest hit segment of the watch industry will be the "near luxury" bracket. Lower cost stuff will remain, and maybe even flourish. 

High end stuff is largely recession proof (although we may see an end to the crazy premiums charged for certain brands).

I believe some luxury brands will even buy back and destroy unsold AD stock (I know I read an article about this relating to watches) to preserve market perception and exclusivity. 




mattcantwin said:


> Not exactly.


LOL!

If I were still out in your neck of the woods we'd definitely be getting in some good fishing excursions off of Montauk.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

On edit - I just found the article and it was Richemont Group that bought back and destroyed unsold AD stock. They bought back somewhere in the neighborhood of $212M worth of stock.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

Ryeguy said:


> I wouldn't know. My boat is too large to trailer and is on a private slip at my marina.
> 
> Is this how we forum flex? Am I doing it right?


I own the marina. 

/micdrop

😆


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

RSM13 said:


> Unfortunately the Doxa forum is unique in that it has an unusually large amount of posters who do nothing but *** about:
> 
> Doxa ownership Sucks...they dont know what they are doing.
> The new watches are horrible and waaaay over priced.
> ...


...Does Doxa ownership NOT Suck?
....Are there not better watches spec'd identical with Selita, ETA or SP movements for significantly less money?
....Are there not other brands who operate in the same waters as Doxa who DO interact with their customers? (hence minimizing the "whiners")
....The watches.. like almost all have Chinese made parts...
... see point 2... Squale offers a forged Carbon case watch with a Swiss movement for $1250.00 and its lume last more than 38 seconds.
.........See all the above and you decide why so many believe in your last attempt at mocking this group.


The ONLY argument for buying a Doxa currently at MSRP is "I like it"... there is nothing else rational about. My 300T will be here Thursday. I'll be happy to have a running 300T. I like that style, it fits my collection but I still believe every point above is rooted in complete truth.



Sorry... you have the audacity to end your fanboi rant with "God Bless" after the things you've said to members here?


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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

I dont think doxa's ownership sucks and I don't think they are priced out of line just bc some one out there can sell a watch for less. Also Doxa's IG has 35K followers and posts regularly, with little-to-no negative comments, pretty much ever. I think they stopped using WUS as the primary way to interact with its customers a while ago. 

Its possible you may not be as representative of the average Doxa "consumer" as you think you are?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

martin_blank said:


> I dont think doxa's ownership sucks and I don't think they are priced out of line just bc some one out there can sell a watch for less. Also Doxa's IG has 35K followers and posts regularly, with little-to-no negative comments, pretty much ever. I think they stopped using WUS as the primary way to interact with its customers a while ago.
> 
> Its possible you may not be as representative of the average Doxa "consumer" as you think you are?


"Someone" offers a similar watch for less or most of the market offers a similar watch for less? This is not an isolated occurrence and lets be honest, I've made it abundantly clear I'm not a representative of the average Doxa "consumer", but that doesn't mean I'm alone in my analytics nor does it make me wrong when comparing my (as well many others) criticisms of the brand and its ownership to others of similar size, quality and style.

Although, maybe my opinion, based on over 25 years of collecting, is purely skewed because I was just lucky enough to be the customer over and over and over that all those other brands just chose to go out of their way to set the stage for my expectations on service and quality leading me to believe Doxa was below par. Thats completely possible.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

martin_blank said:


> I dont think doxa's ownership sucks and I don't think they are priced out of line just bc some one out there can sell a watch for less. Also Doxa's IG has 35K followers and posts regularly, with little-to-no negative comments, pretty much ever. I think they stopped using WUS as the primary way to interact with its customers a while ago.
> 
> Its possible you may not be as representative of the average Doxa "consumer" as you think you are?


I don't know much about internet marketing, but 35K followers does not seem like that large a number to me.

Mido, a watch brand largely unknown in the USA, for comparison has 178K followers (according to Google).

Squale, a similar sized independent watch brand, has 49K followers.

I have no opinion on Doxa's overall management. I have an opinion on this particular situation and I have been around watch forums long enough to have heard various positive and negative experiences regarding Doxa, but management's job is to drive recurring revenue at required margin to make the business sustainable. If they are doing so, then they are effective. If not, then they are not effective.

As for their price point? Again, no opinion. They can ask any price they choose for their product and the market will dictate the accuracy of their strategy. One voice's opinion that they are overpriced is as irrelavent as another saying they are a bargain. 

As previously mentioned, the fact Joma even reasonably expected to get some Doxa inventory indicates - IMO - that the Doxa pricing strategy needs to be revisited.


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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

Every brand is on Joma. ALS, Omega, Oris, Rolex…literally every brand on the planet. 

I don’t think it says anything about anything to be listed there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I honestly cant comment too much about the Doxa instagram page as I rarely visit anything instagram, but i did go do a very quick trawll through it. Hmmmmmm, not a lot of deep meeningful conversations there. Lots of ... lovely watch, beautiful, heart heart heart. Not sure I would class the Doxa instagram account as the company interacting with its customers. But, I could be wrong. It does look a bit like sychophant city





Ryeguy said:


> I don't know much about internet marketing, but 35K followers does not seem like that large a number to me.
> 
> Mido, a watch brand largely unknown in the USA, for comparison has 178K followers (according to Google).
> 
> ...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

martin_blank said:


> Every brand is on Joma. ALS, Omega, Oris, Rolex…literally every brand on the planet.
> 
> I don’t think it says anything about anything to be listed there.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say that at all. really just larger luxury brands or household names but so many small to medium sized brands like Doxa are likely not worth the headache and hassle as certainly Joma has learned from this experience with Doxa. I feel like Zodiac, Squale, Le Jour, ZRC, Yema, even Lum eTc are all brands in the same space that you'll never see on Joma


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

martin_blank said:


> Every brand is on Joma. ALS, Omega, Oris, Rolex…literally every brand on the planet.
> 
> I don’t think it says anything about anything to be listed there.
> 
> ...


It isn't that Doxa it is listed on Joma relative to any other brand. It is that Doxa was never listed before on Joma (or on any other grey market site I am aware of). It is that this is a first.

Actually, whether or not any Doxa watches are ever sold through Joma is largely irrelevant to my perspective on the topic.

I can't imagine any AD ever _wants_ to dump stock onto the grey market. Doing so means they are not making the profit margin they expected from their investment in inventory. They essentially gambled and lost.

Joma (despite their handling of this situation) is probably very good at negotiating aggressive deals with distressed AD's who are looking to convert inventory to capital immediately. To Joma, everything is a commodity and their job is to buy as low as possible and sell as high as possible. They have no constraints relative to brand distribution contracts, pricing is purely based upon what they think the market will bear.

Maybe Doxa management pulled a Richemont and allowed this distressed AD to return their unsold Doxa stock and this is why the Joma deal crashed? If so, good for Doxa as this allows them to preserve their brand price point for a bit longer and probably preserved an AD relationship.

Looking forward, however, I don't believe Doxa / Jenny is capitalized well enough to pull a Richemont if multiple AD's decide to drop the brand.

I suspect the fact at least one (and I'm guessing a larger one) AD decided to try Joma is really just the tip of the iceberg, but we'll have to see what the future holds.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

As a side note, I'm actually curious as to when Doxa went from being purely online sales to adding brick and mortar AD's to their go-to-market strategy? (quick edit to answer my own question - about 2 years ago Doxa added an AD network, so this is new to them - which is a bit obvious honestly).

Adding AD's (in my opinion) does add an air of legitimacy to the brand, but it also adds an additional step in the distribution chain where some control is lost (again, as evidenced by this Joma fiasco). It is a big change in distribution strategy.

For example, I don't see anything stopping an AD who decides to end their relationship with Doxa from ripping up their sales pricing agreement and doing a big sale on the brand. Doxa certainly isn't like Richemont or Swatch Group where, if I violate a contract with one brand, it would probably impact my ability to sell any brand under the corporate umbrella. If I'm done selling Doxa there really are no additional consequences I need to be concerned about.

From rereading Doxa's message on this thread, they certainly talk a good game about control of their distribution network, but I simply do not see them having the muscle to back up their message.

I don't mean to hypothesize about a potential negative situation in the future, but I find myself wondering how Doxa would support a customer who bought a Doxa from an AD at a "sales" price. They ought to know that the watch was likely purchased for below authorized retail given the serial number of the watch and date on the warranty card. Curious how this will be handled.


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## NeurosciGuy15 (Jan 4, 2018)

Ryeguy said:


> For example, I don't see anything stopping an AD who decides to end their relationship with Doxa from ripping up their sales pricing agreement and doing a big sale on the brand. Doxa certainly isn't like Richemont or Swatch Group where, if I violate a contract with one brand, it would probably impact my ability to sell any brand under the corporate umbrella. If I'm done selling Doxa there really are no additional consequences I need to be concerned about.
> 
> …
> 
> I don't mean to hypothesize about a potential negative situation in the future, but I find myself wondering how Doxa would support a customer who bought a Doxa from an AD at a "sales" price. They ought to know that the watch was likely purchased for below authorized retail given the serial number of the watch and date on the warranty card. Curious how this will be handled.


If their contact with Doxa expressly forbids them passing off their watches to a bulk secondary dealer there could be legal ramifications I imagine. Which might dissuade them even if they plan on never offering Doxa watches for sale again. 

For the latter paragraph, I imagine they’d still service the watch but wouldn’t honor the warranty. Hard to see them totally blacklisting the watch.

Speculation of course on both accounts. My username isn’t lawyerguy15 after all.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

They did have ADs during the Marei era. Cayman Islands. We did a Searaider diving trip there in 2009 and held a group get together in it. I also gave a presentation on Doxa to them. They had Kubes Jewellers in Texas and also another place in California. I loved it because Robin Williams went in one day and saw my 40th book. They gave it to him...... 



Ryeguy said:


> As a side note, I'm actually curious as to when Doxa went from being purely online sales to adding brick and mortar AD's to their go-to-market strategy? (quick edit to answer my own question - about 2 years ago Doxa added an AD network, so this is new to them - which is a bit obvious honestly).
> 
> Adding AD's (in my opinion) does add an air of legitimacy to the brand, but it also adds an additional step in the distribution chain where some control is lost (again, as evidenced by this Joma fiasco). It is a big change in distribution strategy.
> 
> ...


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> I have not cancelled mine but I JUST won the AM 300T that just ended on eBay where my max bid was "MSRP-26%-$50.00 plus my local tax" and I came in $9.00 under my invoice from Joma.
> 
> I'll likely cancel my order as soon as I get the Ebay Doxa in hand. A 300T Aqua Marine on the BOR for $1355.00 is palatable.


Wow, nice pickup. Congrats. This means you will be getting that 26%er tat this weekend?


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## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

Flyingdoctor said:


> …not a lot of deep meeningful conversations there. Lots of ... lovely watch, beautiful, heart heart heart. Not sure I would class the Doxa instagram account as the company interacting with its customers. But, I could be wrong. It does look a bit like sychophant city


That’s pretty much all watch accounts on Instagram in a nutshell.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> That’s pretty much all watch accounts on Instagram in a nutshell.


I don't do Insta either, but from what I see in various news feeds and other intranetz stuff, it's the go to, for "Look at Me" lifestyle.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

I’m a poor & I’ll never cancel


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> I’m a poor & I’ll never cancel


That's the Spirit!


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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I honestly cant comment too much about the Doxa instagram page as I rarely visit anything instagram, but i did go do a very quick trawll through it. Hmmmmmm, not a lot of deep meeningful conversations there. Lots of ... lovely watch, beautiful, heart heart heart. Not sure I would class the Doxa instagram account as the company interacting with its customers. But, I could be wrong. It does look a bit like sychophant city


Surely you aren’t referring to the actual post but the comments?

Seems like they release/ present all company info/ watches there before anywhere else. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> Wow, nice pickup. Congrats. This means you will be getting that 26%er tat this weekend?


Tracking says Thursday!


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

That may be true, I have no hard facts on it, but I don't consider it as actually interacting with the customer. Doxa management looks to have actually written more in this forum than what I could find on Instagram. But then, for me Instagram does exactly what its name describes.



martin_blank said:


> Surely you aren’t referring to the actual post but the comments?
> 
> Seems like they release/ present all company info/ watches there before anywhere else.
> 
> ...


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I guess at the end of the day, it doesn't matter a toss what Doxa management does or doesn't do. Some of us may think it matters because we feel we are invested in the company, either through buying their watches or supporting them in the early days etc but we did that of our own choice. No-one forced us to do it, the same way no-one forces us to buy or not buy their watches.

The problem with passion is it blinds you to actuality. I have a passion for Doxa watches, I believe they should do certain things or react certain ways. Who other than me gives a toss? If this forum dies, instagram, facebook, whatever other social media collapsed, Doxa would still sell watches. They managed it when the internet didn't exist. The fact they now have a large AD means they have places where people can touch and feel the product. If those people like it enough, consider the cost / benefit ratio of ownership favorable, then they will slap down a credit card. Doesn't matter a fiddler's fandango what I think or say.

What I do like about this forum compared to Facebook or Instagram is things like this thread. It has been fun (for the most part), people have been courteous and very witty at times. There have been some great images / memes posted and even though there have been disagreements, it's been remarkably cordial. I think we can agree to disagree without getting upset. That's why I contribute and look forward to seeing others contribute.

Do we winge and sometimes go off half cocked? Sure but it beats the hell out of..... heart, heart, brilliant, fantastic.......


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I honestly cant comment too much about the Doxa instagram page as I rarely visit anything instagram, but i did go do a very quick trawll through it. Hmmmmmm, not a lot of deep meeningful conversations there. Lots of ... lovely watch, beautiful, heart heart heart. Not sure I would class the Doxa instagram account as the company interacting with its customers. But, I could be wrong. It does look a bit like sychophant city


Instagram posts are usually from people who post something they like and the people who follow are usually like minded and are responding to that particulars posters contribution. Almost like listing a photo you took of your family on vacation. The expection is usually to have a cordial NOT critical response. It really isn't platform for criticism of a originators contribution. I could post a pic of a my Timex in a pool and most responses are going to be positive and polite...that is the nature off that community. Most people on Instagram have positive things to say about an individual's contribution. If you are looking for critical responses to peoples pics of their watch that isn't the platform.

My issue here, and I am sorry if I come across snide and sarcastic is that there seems to be a plethora of needless complaining/bashing of the company here that is lacking on almost any other watch forum on WUS or elsewhere. I understand that if there is serious fault with Doxa's operation, quality of product, deceptive marketing etc. they should be called out.

I think Doxa is a great part of the watch community sometimes the unqualified. bashing gets to me.

To those I have offended I sincerely apologize.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Well done, with the apology. We have been in contact before and while you admit to being a bit harsh at times in your posts you seemed to me to be someone who was passionate about their watch hobby, and I respect that. I was gobsmaceked by your lack of judgement post a while back. I thought, come on man, you are better than this. However, in my book it takes a big man to stand up and apologize, especially in a place were you were savaged by "professionals"  Again, kudos.

Yea we can be a bit overly critical here but hang out in the Seiko forum a while ago when there was the ultimate sh&%fest over their quality. Heck it made the Doxa forum look like a case of...please Miss, Johnny stole my milk 




RSM13 said:


> Instagram posts are usually from people who post something they like and the people who follow are usually like minded and are responding to that particulars posters contribution. Almost like listing a photo you took of your family on vacation. The expection is usually to have a cordial NOT critical response. It really isn't platform for criticism of a originators contribution. I could post a pic of a my Timex in a pool and most responses are going to be positive and polite...that is the nature off that community. Most people on Instagram have positive things to say about an individual's contribution. If you are looking for critical responses to peoples pics of their watch that isn't the platform.
> 
> My issue here, and I am sorry if I come across snide and sarcastic is that there seems to be a plethora of needless complaining/bashing of the company here that is lacking on almost any other watch forum on WUS or elsewhere. I understand that if there is serious fault with Doxa's operation, quality of product, deceptive marketing etc. they should be called out.
> 
> ...


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Who needs a 26% when you can get one of these..... yea, you know what the purple cloth means  A homage to a Doxa that never was a Doxa anyway. I guess I should feel honoured. I know of 4 people who have bought them. St Paddy's Day will be spectacular, next year  I might actually have to revise my judgement on Ti watches too. I'm beginning to have pangs of regret for never getting an 800Ti or Mission 31 now.


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## McDLT (Nov 10, 2009)

Looks great! Nice to be able to see the difference in shade and color between the steel and titanium. Have any other initial thoughts? Were you able to confirm if the crowntube and crown use stainless steel? 

The question now is should I wait for your review first or just purchase it? 



Flyingdoctor said:


> Who needs a 26% when you can get one of these..... yea, you know what the purple cloth means  A homage to a Doxa that never was a Doxa anyway. I guess I should feel honoured. I know of 4 people who have bought them. St Paddy's Day will be spectacular, next year  I might actually have to revise my judgement on Ti watches too. I'm beginning to have pangs of regret for never getting an 800Ti or Mission 31 now.
> 
> View attachment 16695695


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I honestly think both Crown and tube are Titanium, but it is so hard to tell. Crown definitely looks Titanium. I have the steel versions of both the Samui and vintage and there is a definite difference on color on the crowns and tubes. No point in trying a magnet as 316 Stainless Steel is Austenitic which makes it antimagnetic.

Even the movement retaining ring / spacer looks to be Titanium too. Maranez did a good job on this, even the caseback has a compression ring. Nice touch.












McDLT said:


> Looks great! Nice to be able to see the difference in shade and color between the steel and titanium. Have any other initial thoughts? Were you able to confirm if the crowntube and crown use stainless steel?
> 
> The question now is should I wait for your review first or just purchase it?


----------



## McDLT (Nov 10, 2009)

Very interesting. At least from the Maranez’s website images, the crown knurling appeared brighter than the case which made me think that the crown was actually steel, but the description does say that the crown is titanium with “steel core” whatever that means. From your image, the crown appears to be two layered pieces (hard to tell): inner hopefully steel threads with a titanium shroud. The crown tube also looks slightly brighter to me. I’m not really sure how cases are manufactured, but the crown tube are separate parts that can be replaced? Does it feel noticeably grittier when screwing in the crown than standard steel on steel? I’m still waiting for a reply from Maranez on this. So who knows. Thank you so much for checking! 



Flyingdoctor said:


> I honestly think both Crown and tube are Titanium, but it is so hard to tell. Crown definitely looks Titanium. I have the steel versions of both the Samui and vintage and there is a definite difference on color on the crowns and tubes. No point in trying a magnet as 316 Stainless Steel is Austenitic which makes it antimagnetic.
> 
> Even the movement retaining ring / spacer looks to be Titanium too. Maranez did a good job on this, even the caseback has a compression ring. Nice touch.
> 
> View attachment 16697474


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

There is definitely a different feel to the crowns just touching them and the Irishstar definitely feels Titanium. Actually there is a very slight difference screwing the crown in and out but man, they are so close its so hard to tell. 

Crown tubes can be separate and screwed into the case. I suspect this is how most people do it, but my vintage Breitling Superocean has a tube that is either machined from the case blank or friction welded in. It's a drill it out and tap a thread job to replace it. The replacement part is a screwed tube. Go figure!!!!!!

The decouple mechanism in my Superocean crown died and I needed a new one, ended up buying the crown and tube but only needed the crown.



Flyingdoctor said:


> I honestly think both Crown and tube are Titanium, but it is so hard to tell. Crown definitely looks Titanium. I have the steel versions of both the Samui and vintage and there is a definite difference on color on the crowns and tubes. No point in trying a magnet as 316 Stainless Steel is Austenitic which makes it antimagnetic.
> 
> Even the movement retaining ring / spacer looks to be Titanium too. Maranez did a good job on this, even the caseback has a compression ring. Nice touch.
> 
> View attachment 16697474


----------



## McDLT (Nov 10, 2009)

I just attached a crop of your image of what looks like two layers and what I think Maranez means by steel core. I want to assume that they did this because they know titanium threads strip more easily, and being that the crowntube is probably screwed in, why wouldn't they just use a steel crowntube for the same reason? The only experience I have with a titanium cased watch had a push pull crown.










Feels good to go off topic even more!



Flyingdoctor said:


> There is definitely a different feel to the crowns just touching them and the Irishstar definitely feels Titanium. Actually there is a very slight difference screwing the crown in and out but man, they are so close its so hard to tell.
> 
> Crown tubes can be separate and screwed into the case. I suspect this is how most people do it, but my vintage Breitling Superocean has a tube that is either machined from the case blank or friction welded in. It's a drill it out and tap a thread job to replace it. The replacement part is a screwed tube. Go figure!!!!!!
> 
> The decouple mechanism in my Superocean crown died and I needed a new one, ended up buying the crown and tube but only needed the crown.


I suppose the replacement tube being screwed makes sense, considering you have to drill out the old one. An exact replacement probably would be too small for the new hole.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Yea, it makes much more sense to have a steel crown tube, a steel inner decouple mechanism and an outer titanium shell. That's how I would design it for the simple reason that Titanium has much worse wear resistance and can gall quite easily. Yes, using silicon grease on the threads will help prevent this to an extent and its not like we are screwing and unscrewing the threads 24/7. 

I've also asked Sara at Maranez for a clarification. Hmmmm, wonder what Doxa did on their 600T pacific?





McDLT said:


> I just attached a crop of your image of what looks like two layers and what I think Maranez means by steel core. I want to assume that they did this because they know titanium threads strip more easily, and being that the crowntube is probably screwed in, why wouldn't they just use a steel crowntube for the same reason? The only experience I have with a titanium cased watch had a push pull crown.
> 
> View attachment 16697615
> 
> ...


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

@Flyingdoctor if you get a moment, could you please take a photo dead on, looking down the “barrel“ of the crown tube / pendant?

If the pendant is screwed in, it will probably have a Torx “star” machined into the inside of the tube. If press fit, it’ll probably be smooth with just a lip for the press tip. (FWIW, I much prefer screwed in pendants, but on a sub $500 watch, I’m not going to complain. On my MM300 however…)

I‘ve been pretty impressed with my Maranez. I kinda wish they still offered the “12” hour scale instead of the no deco scale (except a more bold font and with paint color matched to the dial). 

I wore mine doing work in my garden all weekend which is something I’d probably not do with a $2K watch (although I have been known to do dumb things while wearing nice watches).


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Will do. Won't be able to get to it until tomorrow but I'll take some Macro shots of stuff.

The paint color is easy enough to change on the bezel and the bezels are easy to swap. The samui and vintage samui bezel construction is the same only vintage is taller. I was tempted to get a nodeco vintage bezel to swap out for my 12 hour samui one (I have those in steel)



Ryeguy said:


> @Flyingdoctor if you get a moment, could you please take a photo dead on, looking down the “barrel“ of the crown tube / pendant?
> 
> If the pendant is screwed in, it will probably have a Torx “star” machined into the inside of the tube. If press fit, it’ll probably be smooth with just a lip for the press tip. (FWIW, I much prefer screwed in pendants, but on a sub $500 watch, I’m not going to complain. On my MM300 however…)
> 
> ...


----------



## McDLT (Nov 10, 2009)

I see that Maranez is still selling the steel version of the Samui Vintage but looks different from the v3s you reviewed. The bezel is polished with the nodeco engravings. And the bracelet uses flat endlinks. Alas, no drilled lugs. Do I really need those? 

Any insight into the titanium used on the samui vintage? I wonder if it is harder than the one used on the 600t? I‘ve been reading on the forum that the 600T scratches when you look at the wrong way. Not that scratches bother me. Need the wabi–sabi. 




Flyingdoctor said:


> Yea, it makes much more sense to have a steel crown tube, a steel inner decouple mechanism and an outer titanium shell. That's how I would design it for the simple reason that Titanium has much worse wear resistance and can gall quite easily. Yes, using silicon grease on the threads will help prevent this to an extent and its not like we are screwing and unscrewing the threads 24/7.
> 
> I've also asked Sara at Maranez for a clarification. Hmmmm, wonder what Doxa did on their 600T pacific?


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm not a Ti watch expert by any means, but from what I've read, Grade 5 is the most commonly commercially used type of Ti. It is actually a Ti alloy and is a bit stronger and a bit more corrosion resistant.

Grade 2 Ti is not an alloy and is considered "commercially pure" Ti. It is better for welding (which has little to do with watch making, so I doubt Maranez would request it).

There are other Ti alloys out there, but if I had to make a guess just on commercial availability, I would guess Maranez used Grade 5 Ti.

Regarding scratching, yes Ti does scratch easily, but it also oxidizes quickly so the the scratch will blend in and become less noticeable.

I do like Seiko's surface hardening for Ti (DiaShield) as it mostly eliminates the scratch issue (although the negative being if you do scratch the watch, you really cannot buff it out. That said, my Shogun is probably close to 10 years old and the case still looks perfect.)


----------



## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Ryeguy said:


> I'm not a Ti watch expert by any means, but from what I've read, Grade 5 is the most commonly commercially used type of Ti. It is actually a Ti alloy and is a bit stronger and a bit more corrosion resistant.
> 
> Grade 2 Ti is not an alloy and is considered "commercially pure" Ti. It is better for welding (which has little to do with watch making, so I doubt Maranez would request it).
> 
> ...


Good info, thanks for sharing. I've always been nervous about coatings for this very reason. I have one old Seiko that's Ti, my first Diver and yes it does scratch but I guess that's too be expected when it's almost 30 yrs old.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Flyingdoctor said:


> They did have ADs during the Marei era. Cayman Islands. We did a Searaider diving trip there in 2009 and held a group get together in it. I also gave a presentation on Doxa to them. They had Kubes Jewellers in Texas and also another place in California. I loved it because Robin Williams went in one day and saw my 40th book. They gave it to him......


Just to circle back to this, do you happen to know how the Doxa management team navigated through the process of ending these previous AD relationships?

It seems like there could be 2 paths:
1) Allow the AD to return all unsold stock for a refund
2) Allow the AD to sell off all remaining stock in their inventory (knowing there was little to no recourse if they decided to sell at reduced prices to blow out the inventory)

Thinking about this Doxa management / JomaShop thing, my guess is this is where maybe Doxa management might have failed to make a contingency plan for "off-boarding" an AD. *To be clear, I am not saying they did - I am absolutely hypothesizing. *

Doxa may have an AD agreement that states if the AD decides to end their relationship with Doxa, they can return all remaining Doxa inventory for a full refund. (I would actually say this seems like a reasonable proposal.)

An AD _*might*_ have been solicited by a JomaShop buyer who said "If you are thinking of dropping the Doxa line, instead of returning those back to Doxa at cost, I'll buy them from you for cost + a little bit more". This way the AD makes a little bit of margin and still ends their Doxa relationship.

This scenario seems plausible in my mind. 

The challenge for Doxa is, being a single brand entity (unlike Swatch Group, for example), their ability to enforce compliance with their stock return policy has little teeth. Swatch Group can say, for example, "you mess around with Mido and we cut you off from all Swatch Group brands". Doxa doesn't have this ability. 

Doxa's only recourse is the threat of a breach of contract lawsuit, but this is a civil case, not criminal and any judgements made can be wiped out by bankruptcy. Doxa would have to sue the violating AD under CISG article 25 (yes, I went down a rabbit hole a bit on this) which seems like an expensive mechanism to enforce compliance. 

FWIW, even this recourse doesn't work for all countries. Certain Doxa AD's are located in countries which have not signed the CISG. This AD could tell the Doxa lawyers to pound sand and there is little to be done. 

Given the clues above, and assuming my hypothesis is correct, you can guess the AD that theoretically could be Joma source if so inclined.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Delivered.. NIB, sized and with no signs of wear, still under warranty from Ebay. Paid price-$9.00 = MSRP-26%-$50.00+Tax- Free shipping from Joma... 

Thanks Fed Ex for delivering early in the day so I could stop pacing...


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## boatswain (Sep 4, 2014)

STARSTELLA said:


> Delivered.. NIB, sized and with no signs of wear, still under warranty from Ebay. Paid price-$9.00 = MSRP-26%-$50.00+Tax- Free shipping from Joma...
> 
> Thanks Fed Ex for delivering early in the day so I could stop pacing...


Looks great!


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Delivered.. NIB, sized and with no signs of wear, still under warranty from Ebay. Paid price-$9.00 = MSRP-26%-$50.00+Tax- Free shipping from Joma...
> 
> Thanks Fed Ex for delivering early in the day so I could stop pacing...


Yeah! Looks great. Congratulations! 

I know it is a single example, but it does show that Joma was fairly accurate in their 26% off MSRP for a NIB, no manufacturer warranty, Doxa. The fact an open Ebay auction landed extremely close to the magic number is impressive.

It also suggests to me that a Joma sale would not likely influence the secondary market valuation of a Doxa watch. I very much doubt a Joma buyer would immediately flip the watch for a loss (removing economic market factors).


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

STARSTELLA said:


> Delivered.. NIB, sized and with no signs of wear, still under warranty from Ebay. Paid price-$9.00 = MSRP-26%-$50.00+Tax- Free shipping from Joma...
> 
> Thanks Fed Ex for delivering early in the day so I could stop pacing...


....and unlike my first Aquamarine 300T, this one has been on my wrist for a full hour.. and STILL Keeps time!


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> ....and unlike my first Aquamarine 300T, this one has been on my wrist for a full hour.. and STILL Keeps time!


The one thing I think Doxa does nicely as compared to the Homages, is the high polished outer bezel contrasting the satin finish inner bezel. It really pops nicely. I think Doc polished up one of his homages himself to match the Doxa look iirc.


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## McDLT (Nov 10, 2009)

Maranez pivots quickly! I can’t confirm if it is just as nice, but I see their newer steel samui vintage has a polished outer bezel with brushed/satin inner bezel.



Watchout63 said:


> The one thing I think Doxa does nicely as compared to the Homages, is the high polished outer bezel contrasting the satin finish inner bezel. It really pops nicely. I think Doc polished up one of his homages himself to match the Doxa look iirc.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


>


Thanks, @STARSTELLA for putting the LUST for the 300T Aquamarine back into my heart, to go along with this:


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Wearing the Muhle SAR while in JomaDoxa limbo


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## Dave T (Feb 11, 2006)

McDLT said:


> Maranez pivots quickly! I can’t confirm if it is just as nice, but I see their newer steel samui vintage has a polished outer bezel with brushed/satin inner bezel.


Not the best shot to illustrate the bezel finishing but it does have the highly polished outer ring with the brushed inner.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

BobMartian said:


> Wearing the Muhle SAR while in JomaDoxa limbo


Is this how the dream dies?

I was hoping for at least a "your order is cancelled" email from Joma for closure purposes. The only communication I get from them is their spam emails for their endless sales and promotions.

We could just about merge this thread with the existing "what are you wearing that is not a Doxa" thread. They serve pretty much the same purpose at this point.


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## SenorPedro (Apr 18, 2013)

Well, I canceled my last pending order for the 300T Sharkhunter yesterday. I'm officially out.

That said, all this uncertainty did drive me to purchase a second hand, but effectively untouched, 300 Searambler to replace my first cancelled Joma order... Ultimately, it cost me less than Joma would have. Weird times in this weird hobby.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Guys, I won't hijack this thread anymore with the Irishstar stuff. I'm actually doing a review / photo essay on the history of the Irishstar and will start a separate thread when it is done. For now, to answer the questions posed here are a couple of pics. I forgot I actually have a spare Maranez steel crown and tube and yep the tube is threaded. Crappy macro image but very fine outside threads.










The Ti crown looks to be a 2 part. Outer Ti case and steel inner. Comparing the spare tube and that in the Ti watch, they both look the same to me, so I'd say the tube and crown are steel but the crown has a Ti outer shell.










More info when I post the review / essay thingy


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Ryeguy said:


> Is this how the dream dies?
> 
> I was hoping for at least a "your order is cancelled" email from Joma for closure purposes. The only communication I get from them is their spam emails for their endless sales and promotions.
> 
> We could just about merge this thread with the existing "what are you wearing that is not a Doxa" thread. They serve pretty much the same purpose at this point.


Schrödinger’s Doxa. My logic is that 26%ers both own a Doxa and haven’t had to pay for it. That is until either the order ships or is canceled. 

It’s great, a watch can still be owned but not occupy a space in the watch box.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> Schrödinger’s Doxa. My logic is that 26%ers both own a Doxa and haven’t had to pay for it. That is until either the order ships or is canceled.
> 
> It’s great, a watch can still be owned but not occupy a space in the watch box.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

BobMartian said:


> Schrödinger’s Doxa. My logic is that 26%ers both own a Doxa and haven’t had to pay for it. That is until either the order ships or is canceled.
> 
> It’s great, a watch can still be owned but not occupy a space in the watch box.


Schrödinger’s Doxa - that is a brilliant description!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

drmdwebb said:


> Thanks, @STARSTELLA for putting the LUST for the 300T Aquamarine back into my heart, to go along with this:


ha! Next on my list is the more appropriately priced 600T White Pearl with the Ceramic insert...Then I suppose an Orange dial something since not having an Orange Doxa is like collecting Ferraris and not having a red one


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## McDLT (Nov 10, 2009)

@Flyingdoctor Thank you! Unless there's a glaring flaw you found with yours, looks like I'll be ordering the green ti vintage all for less than 26% of a new Sub 300!



Flyingdoctor said:


> Guys, I won't hijack this thread anymore with the Irishstar stuff. I'm actually doing a review / photo essay on the history of the Irishstar and will start a separate thread when it is done. For now, to answer the questions posed here are a couple of pics. I forgot I actually have a spare Maranez steel crown and tube and yep the tube is threaded. Crappy macro image but very fine outside threads.
> 
> View attachment 16699633
> 
> ...


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

Hey crew. I regret to inform you that I am out of the 26%er club. I managed to snag an in warranty 300 professional (which is what i ordered from joma) + an OEM rubber strap for <$1900 off watchex. 

It's been a privilege.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

...and since my AM 300T passed the 10 minute test (unlike the first one-Did I mention that? ), I felt its only right to order one of @Flyingdoctor 's books... Just ordered. Happy to officially be part of the cult.. I mean.. "Family"... Happy to be part of the family!


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Just did the shipping label and sent you the tracking number. Should go tomorrow.

Enjoy the read.



STARSTELLA said:


> ...and since my AM 300T passed the 10 minute test (unlike the first one-Did I mention that? ), I felt its only right to order one of @Flyingdoctor 's books... Just ordered. Happy to officially be part of the cult.. I mean.. "Family"... Happy to be part of the family!


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Well I don't know about you dudes but my Doxa finally arrived. I reached out to Doxa directly, explained the situation with Jomashop and their marketing team took pity on me and gave me an 88% off discount code. I couldn't say no to that. You all can try it if you want, it's WHINYENTITLEDENTHUSIAST88


























So far this is scratching my itch enough that I might actually cancel my Sub 300 order... and order like two more colorways of this 😂 Maybe I'll try the titanium case too.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

BobMartian said:


>


You won the internet today.


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

All this Doxa talk got me reaching for the 1200t sharkhunter. 😁


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

WRXtranceformed said:


> Well I don't know about you dudes but my Doxa finally arrived. I reached out to Doxa directly, explained the situation with Jomashop and their marketing team took pity on me and gave me an 88% off discount code. I couldn't say no to that. You all can try it if you want, it's WHINYENTITLEDENTHUSIAST88
> 
> View attachment 16700458
> 
> ...


That Divingstar is a real beaut  🍻


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Let me be clear.. I have zero faith Joma will deliver. I got my 300T and am as happy as a tornado in a trailer park... but I haven't cancelled my 26%er order yet (can't see there being ANY fear of me having two of the sam watch, right?).

Has anyone called for this weeks excuse and next weeks false promise? Are the watches "in customs" or "being checked in right now"?

I might just leave my order indefinitely just to see what happens...


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> Let me be clear.. I have zero faith Joma will deliver. I got my 300T and am as happy as a tornado in a trailer park... but I haven't cancelled my 26%er order yet (can't see there being ANY fear of me having two of the sam watch, right?).
> 
> Has anyone called for this weeks excuse and next weeks false promise? Are the watches "in customs" or "being checked in right now"?
> 
> I might just leave my order indefinitely just to see what happens...


Tell ya what I'd do for you. If you do get your Joma order, I will purchase it from you at an additional 10% discount. I'll be the first 36%er and help out a fellow member cause I'm just that kind of guy!


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

Watchout63 said:


> Tell ya what I'd do for you. If you do get your Joma order, I will purchase it from you at an additional 10% discount. I'll be the first 36%er and help out a fellow member cause I'm just that kind of guy!


Not all heroes wear capes


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> Tell ya what I'd do for you. If you do get your Joma order, I will purchase it from you at an additional 10% discount. I'll be the first 36%er and help out a fellow member cause I'm just that kind of guy!


ironically... the odds of Joma shipping me the watch I ordered February 22nd of this year are about the same as my flipping it for 10% less... there has to be some time space flippers continium where a double negative creates a positive for the buyer here. 

I'll even cover shipping!


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

I keep coming to this thread expecting to definitely see a, "I can't believe it! My Joma Doxa actually showed up!" post. I haven't even made a Joma Doxa purchase and 70 pages in, I'm still interested in the outcome/letdown/Joma horror story. What's wrong with me.......


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I just logged into Joma and my order is still active.

If I get a free moment today I'll call for the "excuse du jour".


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> I just logged into Joma and my order is still active.
> 
> If I get a free moment today I'll call for the "excuse du jour".


... An uncompromising effort to exceed our customers expectations..."
........An incredible focus on the customers needs..."

.... "We are currently working closely with the vendor but your watch has not shipped... I mean, its in customs... I mean... its in the warehouse..and will be shipped to you Monday... "

I wonder if the customer service agents get daily notes on status of pending orders to help with the "incredible focus on the customers needs"... or if they really just make sh*t up on the fly... I don't really wonder this...


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

The dog ate my homework...there was this great big alien spaceship appeared...... I think they should now start getting creative with the excuses and make it a bit more entertaining, it's been a hell of a show so far. Why stop now just when we are hating it


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

" Don't call us, we'll call you"
Yeah righty oh 😂😂😂


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

"If it takes a day and half for a hen and a half to lay an egg and a half, how long does it take Jomashop to ship a Doxa?"

"It will ship tomorrow."

"How do I know that?"

"Because footballs don't have feathers."


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Well, this was at least the most honest answer I've heard from Joma...

The customer service rep I just spoke with said they have no Doxa models in stock and no ETA on getting Doxa's in their warehouse. Reading between the lines, it sounds like their deal with their supplier fell through. Getting Doxa stock would require a brand new buying deal with a new supplier.

She said the credit card holds have expired, but the orders can remain open and Joma will honor the pricing if they ever receive watches.

Personally, I don't see any point in cancelling the Joma order at this time. I'd only do so it if the bottom fell out of the watch market and I could get a NIB model for less than my existing Joma order. 

The somewhat scary reality is that this might happen sooner than we'd like.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Classic stuff, Bob. This is so good



BobMartian said:


>


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Well, this was at least the most honest answer I've heard from Joma...
> 
> The customer service rep I just spoke with said they have no Doxa models in stock and no ETA on getting Doxa's in their warehouse. Reading between the lines, it sounds like their deal with their supplier fell through. Getting Doxa stock would require a brand new buying deal with a new supplier.
> 
> ...


That really sounds like the last agent I spoke to as well. She sounded like she was just "done" with us Doxa folk asking... lol


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I think your scary reality is well on the way. 

Certainly, the high end market has cooled considerably and people may actually be able to go buy a Rolex at MSRP again. The Doxa market never was in that realm but vintage prices were starting to climb to what I considered stupid prices. They are backing off now. Most of the ICE era watches sold for a couple of hundred less than MSRP in the second hand market but the drop is bigger now and the 26%er can sometimes do as good as Joma.

Of course we still have those guys listing their Doxa Army for 8 and 9000 bucks looking for a sucker. They may have to wait a while.

Gotta wonder how the global economic malaise is affecting Doxa sales. 

Wonder if Doxa will have a 26% off 4th of July sale?

If I was Jan the man, that's exactly what I'd do. If nothing else, to show I had a sense of humor and as a bit of a nod to the guys here. We all came here to talk about Doxa and there is only one thing worse than being talked about..... that is..... not being talked about  




Ryeguy said:


> I'd only do so it if the bottom fell out of the watch market and I could get a NIB model for less than my existing Joma order.
> 
> The somewhat scary reality is that this might happen sooner than we'd like.


----------



## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I think your scary reality is well on the way.
> 
> Certainly, the high end market has cooled considerably and people may actually be able to go buy a Rolex at MSRP again. The Doxa market never was in that realm but vintage prices were starting to climb to what I considered stupid prices. They are backing off now. Most of the ICE era watches sold for a couple of hundred less than MSRP in the second hand market but the drop is bigger now and the 26%er can sometimes do as good as Joma.
> 
> ...


nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd.... and 26% off retail...


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I think your scary reality is well on the way.
> 
> Certainly, the high end market has cooled considerably and people may actually be able to go buy a Rolex at MSRP again. The Doxa market never was in that realm but vintage prices were starting to climb to what I considered stupid prices. They are backing off now. Most of the ICE era watches sold for a couple of hundred less than MSRP in the second hand market but the drop is bigger now and the 26%er can sometimes do as good as Joma.
> 
> ...


I agree. 

I can't speak for the watch industry, but I can tell you some big (read: global) household names are already modifying their internal project investment strategies in light of the anticipated economic downturn. It is kind of reverse "Reaganomics"; as big spenders (industry) spend less, so do all the little spenders (consumers).

For a brand such as Rolex, I don't see this effecting them in the near term as they were not actually the beneficiaries of the inflated sales prices. Grey market sellers, however, are probably screwed. The days of "skip the line and buy your $10K Rolex from me for $20K" are probably over.

Rolex will only be effected when consumers stop buying Rolex watches altogether. Their marketing team has done wonders over the past 40 years to ensure that doesn't happen. Rolex doesn't present itself as a watch, but rather as a status symbol or reward for an accomplishment. Their marketing has been able to completely separate the value of the product from the product itself.

I see Doxa being much more at risk in this impending economic climate. They are a niche brand with minimal brand awareness outside the WIS community trying to sell a product at a premium price (by "premium" I mean in comparison to watches with similar specifications).

I can only hypothesize, but I would guess the reason Doxa management rapidly increased their AD ranks these past few years was not only to increase potential sales volume, but more importantly to add predictability to their revenue. It is far easier to forecast revenue from large AD stock inventory purchases than through direct to consumer internet sales.

The downside to this, however, is they now have an unknown amount of unsold inventory out in the marketplace. If my previous hypothesis was correct and the Doxa AD agreement mandates AD must return unsold stock at the termination of the AD agreement, Doxa could really be in trouble. Not only would they have to reimburse the former AD for the returned stock (negatively impacting their income), they would have to warehouse the returned stock and be taxed on it. Richemont Group had deep enough pockets to reimburse their AD's and destroy the returned stock to ensure brand value positioning. I'm not sure Doxa is in the same financial position.

I don't see Doxa running a 26% off direct to consumer sale next month, but it could definitely happen in the not too distant future.

In the next 6 months, I foresee the Joma buying team being very busy - and not just with Doxa.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Too soon?


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## 03hemi (Dec 30, 2021)

Hey, is it too late to jump in on the Doxa sale? 26% off!


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Actually, if you want a reality check regarding the business risk Doxa is facing today, you need to simply glance through the 4 page thread on this forum discussing "Doxa homages that go a little too far".

I expected to read 4 pages of vitriol, but instead it is civil discussion discussing the various merits of these clones. 

If consumers start seeing these clones as viable alternatives to the authentic article, and consumer spending is constricted to the point where people aren't willing to spend $2K on a Doxa, something will have to give.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Ryeguy said:


> Actually, if you want a reality check regarding the business risk Doxa is facing today, you need to simply glance through the 4 page thread on this forum discussing "Doxa homages that go a little too far".
> 
> I expected to read 4 pages of vitriol, but instead it is civil discussion discussing the various merits of these clones.
> 
> If consumers start seeing these clones as viable alternatives to the authentic article, and consumer spending is constricted to the point where people aren't willing to spend $2K on a Doxa, something will have to give.


I think the thread is just void of the usual butthurt homage bois. Give them a chance to find it and then the thread will turn to 💩


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

03hemi said:


> Hey, is it too late to jump in on the Doxa sale? 26% off!


You aren’t really buying a watch, you are locking in on futures position.

The 26% off is a relative number only, based on market conditions from earlier this past Spring. 

If the market conditions continue trending along the current path, you may find yourself upside down if you lock in with Joma at $1,350 for a 300T.


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

Ryeguy said:


> You aren’t really buying a watch, you are locking in on futures position.
> 
> The 26% off is a relative number only, based on market conditions from earlier this past Spring.
> 
> If the market conditions continue trending along the current path, you may find yourself upside down if you lock in with Joma at $1,350 for a 300T.


I think market conditions have already turned pretty significantly downwards. Reddits watchexchange has seen some pretty significant price changes across a range of watches. I think most notably Omega and Tudors are genuinely demanding what appears to be ~$3-$500 less today than they were three or four months ago. Tudor BB58S that regularly sold in the low to mid $3k range are popping up for <$3,000 regularly. I got a LNIB SUB 300 for a >26% off price tag and it came with an extra OEM strap as well.


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## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

So what happened! Finally shipped for joma???


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

TraserH3 said:


> So what happened! Finally shipped for joma???


Ha! NOOOOOOOoooo...lol


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## Semper Jeep (Jan 11, 2013)

I went on vacation and was away from a computer and email for a week. I was really hoping to have opened this thread and saw some shipping notifications...  

I don't think I'll cancel my order with Doxa but I like the idea of trawling eBay and the for sale forums for a Sharkhunter 300 at a comparable price point to my Joma order.


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

Semper Jeep said:


> I went on vacation and was away from a computer and email for a week. I was really hoping to have opened this thread and saw some shipping notifications...
> 
> I don't think I'll cancel my order with Doxa but I like the idea of trawling eBay and the for sale forums for a Sharkhunter 300 at a comparable price point to my Joma order.


I used my receipt from Joma in negotiations for my other purchase.


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## Heuer1983 (9 mo ago)

Cancelled my order. They apologized for not being able to fulfill it. They actually charged my card several months ago. They promptly refunded me. If they ever arrive and pop back up on the site I may take another stab at the carbon 300.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Why cancel? Jomashop stated all orders will ship this week.


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## Heuer1983 (9 mo ago)

"Why cancel? Jomashop stated all orders will ship this week."

Other priorities popped up. I do hope they start shipping for everyone that has held on for the ride!


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

BobMartian said:


> Why cancel? Jomashop stated all orders will ship this week.


Yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting my Etat Libre D'Orange!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Even I... the most faithful amongst this mob have cancelled my Joma order...

For me, the jomagate journey ends.. its really quite liberating... I might not put on boxers tomorrow.... Thats how liberated I feel!

My slightly preowned but never worn 300T from Ebay that was $9.00 cheaper than all the discounts stacked up from Joma is in good health on my wrist as I type.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> Even I... the most faithful amongst this mob have cancelled my Joma order...
> 
> For me, the jomagate journey ends.. its really quite liberating... I might not put on boxers tomorrow.... Thats how liberated I feel!


Say it isn't so. 
I was counting on you to be the only hold out. This time next year, I expected an update status on your order. Well, I guess we'll have to wait for the next Jomagate adventure. 😥


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Watchout63 said:


> Say it isn't so.
> I was counting on you to be the only hold out. This time next year, I expected an update status on your order. Well, I guess we'll have to wait for the next Jomagate adventure. 😥


Maybe I'll fair better with a Hamilton someday.....


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm still holding out, but more as a deterrent for me to not buy a new watch on some spur of the moment impulse. The "Schrödinger’s Doxa" analogy is holding true, where I have simultaneously both purchased, and not purchased, a new Doxa.

Also, while I'm hopeful this doesn't come to pass, I am keeping my order for the nostalgia purposes, so I can look back at when we all thought $1,300 for a NIB Doxa 300T was a great deal. 

As it sits even today, the watches in my collection I would be willing to flip in order to fund the hypothetical new Doxa (I'm trying to keep my watch box count and watch spending as neutral as possible) are also devaluing while our "purchase" price remains a constant. Where $1,300 might have been raised with flipping 1 or 2 watches previously, I could see it become 3 or more as the secondary watch market slows.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Maybe I'll fair better with a Hamilton someday.....


I really like my old school Hamilton chrono. For running a relatively basic VAL 7750, I find it to be one of the most accurate watches I own. 

This is mine on a kangaroo leather nato (very, very, thin yet strong leather).


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Your boy over here is DIAMOND HANDS on that Joma order 💎 👐


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

I just got off the phone with the CEO of Jomashop. We had a great conversation about discount perfumes. I did forget to ask for a Doxa update.

#NeverCancel


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

BobMartian said:


> I just got off the phone with the CEO of Jomashop. We had a great conversation about discount perfumes. I did forget to ask for a Doxa update.
> 
> #NeverCancel


Did you tell him the discount perfumes he sells work with about the same efficacy as his company’s watch department?


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## King_Neptune (Mar 3, 2015)

Click your heels together three times










and say JomaDoxa over and over until the watch arrives.


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## cough_turn (9 mo ago)

I still havent canceled my order out of sheer morbid interest, even tho I now own the Sub300 i ordered...


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

We regret to inform you that the item(s) you ordered are no longer available and your order has been cancelled.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused and would like to provide you with a $5 coupon off your next order which cannot be combined with any other coupons or promotions, limit one coupon per order.
Coupon Code: CANC5XF378B4

Again we are very sorry for any inconvenience. Please feel free to contact us should you need any further assistance.

Thank you
Jomashop Order Processing


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> We regret to inform you that the item(s) you ordered are no longer available and your order has been cancelled.
> 
> We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused and would like to provide you with a $5 coupon off your next order which cannot be combined with any other coupons or promotions, limit one coupon per order.
> Coupon Code: CANC5XF378B4
> ...


Discount offered on Doxa Watches: 26%
Amount of Doxa watches in stock: 0%
Stringing you along for 122 days: Priceless


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

BobMartian said:


> $5 coupon


At least they made it worth your while by giving you a substantial discount on your next purchase.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Its the not the destination, it’s the journey


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## 19thnervousbreakdown (Dec 1, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> We regret to inform you that the item(s) you ordered are no longer available and your order has been cancelled.
> 
> We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused and would like to provide you with a $5 coupon off your next order which cannot be combined with any other coupons or promotions, limit one coupon per order.
> Coupon Code: CANC5XF378B4
> ...


this is gold 😂😂😂


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

At least you got an email. So far crickets for me.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

I am truly heart broken this thread is coming to an end. 

It was like an old friend you occasionally check up on to see how things were going. Lol. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

Guess it's time to dive into something else.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

26%ers just became $1500 richer


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)




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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

and to think I just added my 2nd Doxa to my collection.. 

Maybe Ashford will have a go in the Fall?


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

$5 consolation coupon ☠☠

I don't know who I am more annoyed with, Doxa for their unprofessional response to this thread or Jomashop for the string along and token gesture. I haven't gotten the cancelation email yet but I'm sure it's coming 😂


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

I paid with Apple Pay and actually got charged. I think that’s why they canceled the order. I’ve received the refund and will only use PayPal if I ever buy from Jomashop again. Apple Pay is just too convenient. Strange they don’t do the payment hold the same as PayPal.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> and to think I just added my 2nd Doxa to my collection..
> 
> Maybe Ashford will have a go in the Fall?


Watch this space. 

I found This interview with the Doxa CEO interesting Europastar Doxa Interview 

It is obviously a bit of a self-congratulatory fluff piece, but Jan Edocs was quite clear on his aggressive expansion to an AD distribution network and his desire to eliminate discounting and grey market sales. 

My interest is almost purely academic at this point, but given the claim in this article that Doxa produces about 10,000 watches per year, and that currently they sell about half of those watches directly through e-commerce and half through their AD network, my guess is there are probably 2,000 - 3,000 Doxa watches sitting in the inventories of the existing 60 Doxa AD’s just waiting to be sold. 

My hypothesis is the $1k - $5k watch market (where Doxa competes) is going to be the most negatively impacted as consumer spending constricts. People will either focus on value or prestige. The “tweener” brands will suffer. 

Despite Jan’s stated desires, I do not see how a brand the size of Doxa can execute a strategy to eliminate discounts and grey market sales if multiple AD’s decide to drop the brand (or close altogether). 

As I mentioned earlier, Richemont Group could, but Doxa / Jenny? I don’t think so. 

As an aside, I don’t blame Jan for this. He had a solid strategy if the world economic situation of 2018 / early 2019 remained a constant. The landscape changed quickly and he now needs to adapt. My impression, however, is his ego wants continued aggressive growth and he will hold on until it is too late. 

The smart move would be to actually begin to scale back the Doxa AD network. Doxa could pre-emptively buy back inventory from low production AD’s and reduce the amount of uncontrolled stock in the market. Then, Doxa could redistribute this inventory to producing AD’s, and even go back to a mostly e-commerce sales model with just a small handful of proven AD’s serving key markets. This might allow Doxa to weather the economic storm while controlling their price point and market position. 

Option “B” is we’ll see another Joma / Ashford sale in about 6 months.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Watch this space.
> 
> I found This interview with the Doxa CEO interesting Europastar Doxa Interview
> 
> ...


I wonder how real that 10K number is. I'd love to see the break down of production numbers by model.

In the end, as any brand grows, you'll have less and less control over where your products are sold unless the brand is 100% direct to consumer. Even if WOS was the only reseller, there's nothing to say in an overstocked pinch, they wouldn't be willing to risk future relationships by dumping stock at a Joma because at the end of the day, Doxa is very niche in the industry and lets face it, WOS is not keeping their lights on by selling Doxa.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BobMartian said:


> I paid with Apple Pay and actually got charged. I think that’s why they canceled the order. I’ve received the refund and will only use PayPal if I ever buy from Jomashop again. Apple Pay is just too convenient. Strange they don’t do the payment hold the same as PayPal.


I paid with American Express. Initially it was charged, then it went pending-Then disappeared. For the last few months the transaction amount has only been reflected in my credit limit but never a line item on my statement.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

Ryeguy said:


> The smart move would be to actually begin to scale back the Doxa AD network. Doxa could pre-emptively buy back inventory from low production AD’s and reduce the amount of uncontrolled stock in the market. Then, Doxa could redistribute this inventory to producing AD’s, and even go back to a mostly e-commerce sales model with just a small handful of proven AD’s serving key markets. This might allow Doxa to weather the economic storm while controlling their price point and market position.
> 
> Option “B” is we’ll see another Joma / Ashford sale in about 6 months.


I'm curious how many ADs they have around the world. The only one I'm aware of in the US is Watches Of Switzerland and their storefront subsidiary, Mayors.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Here's another take on the market which I found interesting too and talks about that $1k - 5k sector.









The Affordable Luxury Watch Is Dying — But The Sub-€4K Swiss Watch Can Still Be Saved


✓ The affordable luxury watch is dying ✓ But the sub-€4K Swiss watch can still be saved ✓ Price, prestige, and passion to the rescue! ✓




www.fratellowatches.com





If Doxa is making (and selling) 10,000 watches a year then at an average price of, lets call it, 1500 bucks, they have a 15 million dollar business. Not a monster by any stretch but considering Rick Marei basically started it from his bedroom, it's come a long way. Tax, costs, salaries etc will eat a bunch of that but I guess they are in the 2 to 3 million dollar profit zone

Jan calls the SUB a desk diver. Some people may be upset at that but in reality it is the truth. Heck, just about every dive watch made now is a desk diver. Even calling Doxa a fashion watch brand isn't as big a negative as it would have been 20 years ago. 

Times have changed. The Doxa SUB was born in a different world and time and different necessity for the watch. 60 years ago it was a tool watch, now it is just a watch. Nothing wrong with that and at the end of the day Doxa is in the business to sell watches not appease fan boys.



Ryeguy said:


> Watch this space.
> 
> I found This interview with the Doxa CEO interesting Europastar Doxa Interview
> 
> ...


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> If Doxa is making (and selling) 10,000 watches a year then at an average price of, lets call it, 1500 bucks, they have a 15 million dollar business.


I'm curious if they're selling all they're making, given that someone wanted to offload hundreds onto Jomashop.

That's not a criticism of DOXA, I want them to thrive. I'm just thinking aloud about how to grow their sales. They seem to be in a strange price band in which they're not in the "affordable, priced under $1k" band (other than the Sub200), yet they're not in the "premium, priced over $3000" band.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

valerian839 said:


> I'm curious how many ADs they have around the world. The only one I'm aware of in the US is Watches Of Switzerland and their storefront subsidiary, Mayors.


In the Europastar interview, Jan says Doxa has 60 AD's. When I go to the Doxa website, I count 55 (STORE LOCATOR ).

My guess on the "inventory loose in the world" estimate of 2,000 - 3,000 watches was based on my thought that each physical AD location might have 60 watches on stock.

Doxa only has 7 models, but they come in a ton of color variants, so I'd guess an AD might have at least 1 example of each model, with deeper stock levels of the more popular colors.

I really have no idea if the 10,000 units sold per year is accurate. I was just going off what Jan stated in the interview.

There are a bunch of unknowns. The biggest unknown (in my opinion) is what does Jan consider as "sold"?

If we assume Jan considers purchases made by resellers to stock their inventories as "sold", and we assume my guess of 2,000 to 3,000 units purchased for this purpose was reasonably accurate, then Jan is screwed.

Jan is screwed because his AD agreement (I am assuming) requires AD's to return unsold stock to Doxa for a refund. This is how he is boxing out the grey market which is where a retailer typically offloads dud stock.

Unfortunately, this also means those watches in AD inventory technically cannot be considered as "sold" by Doxa. They are actually fiscal liabilities.

Intelligently, Doxa would have to keep the AD sales revenue in an escrow account and only release it to the business as serial numbers were reported as "sold" by the AD. If Doxa did this, then they'll have +/- $1.3M in escrow and can cover any AD refunds that might occur. If, however, Doxa already invested this money (product development, raw materials, salaries, etc.), they are in trouble.

The reason the Jomashop sale crashed is because Jan enforced his "must return unsold stock" clause in the AD contract and probably threatened a lawsuit if the AD refused to comply.

The Jomashop sale happened because 1 reseller decided to drop the brand. (For anyone bored at work, put my link above here: Internet Archive: Wayback Machine to see if you can find which AD's are no longer on the Doxa list.) . Imagine what will happen if 4 or 5 decide to drop them?

Jan, to quote a phrase, wants to have his cake and eat it too regarding having price control and having a robust AD network.

AD's are great because they make big purchases all at once, but they are hard to control.

The interesting reality is some AD's, such as WoS with 7 locations, probably are more profitable than Doxa itself.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I thought it was interesting that Jan talks about Doxa not discounting. Never said that before and you can't help think it was because of the Jomashop affair.

Just needed an excuse to post this pic again


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

Ryeguy said:


> In the Europastar interview, Jan says Doxa has 60 AD's. When I go to the Doxa website, I count 55 (STORE LOCATOR ).
> 
> My guess on the "inventory loose in the world" estimate of 2,000 - 3,000 watches was based on my thought that each physical AD location might have 60 watches on stock.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Thanks for the analysis.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

The reality is that Doxa are essentially a one trick pony based around the classic SUB case design which will only ever appeal to a very distinct audience.
This was great for its resurrection as an online micro brand for enthusiasts.
In recent years the enthusiasm for larger watches featuring strong retro designs has been great news for Doxa, amongst others, but trends will always come and go.
If this ends I’m left wondering what the long term plan is for maintaining the Doxa brand as a mainstream offer.
If you consider other mainstream brands retailed through AD’s they invariably include dress watches, dive watches, GADA watches in a wide variety of size/dial/material/calibre options which effectively offer something to everyone as tastes change.
I’m simply not sure that the Doxa product offer is wide enough to sustain it in this sector for the long term.
Just my £0.02.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I agree on the one trick pony comment as it was absolutely true of the Marei era. The ICE era has changed things up a bit with the 200, C-Graph, myriad of colours and carbon and very limited ceramic. Also, the fact that you can now walk into 60 shops around the world and try them on is a move forward.

However, the proof in the pudding will be to see what happens over the next 12 to 18 months, given how the world economy and people's disposable income is changing for the worse.

Even with the best will in the world, Doxa is not and never will be in the Rolex / Omega and similar league. Stores basically beg to be an AD for them. It is the other way round for Doxa and similar companies. If Doxa watches aren't selling, they will be cut from the store in favour of someone else. That's how business is. Retail space costs money. Every square foot of display area needs to generate income.

Doxa are trying to appeal to more than just their classic market. I'm not sure their posts on Instagram and the occasional pontification from Jan will do it. They really should have a stack of Doxa books in the stores for people to peruse and talk history etc.....  Seriously, though I'd love to see them be a 20,000 watch a year company and beyond, I'm just not sure how it will happen. The growth has been great, and I'd bet it definitely accelerated under Jan but it may be tailing off if for no other reason people in the Doxa price range are not spending as much money on watches.

I remember when I did my MBA, case studies were the best part of it. I think Doxa would make a fascinating case study in years to come.




adg31 said:


> The reality is that Doxa are essentially a one trick pony based around the classic SUB case design which will only ever appeal to a very distinct audience.
> This was great for its resurrection as an online micro brand for enthusiasts.
> In recent years the enthusiasm for larger watches featuring strong retro designs has been great news for Doxa, amongst others, but trends will always come and go.
> If this ends I’m left wondering what the long term plan is for maintaining the Doxa brand as a mainstream offer.
> ...


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I think you hit the nail on the head, Doc.

In my opinion (FWIW), a brand that is in the AD business must be a focused marketing machine. They must create a demand for their product so that a consumer already has a desire to make a purchase when they walk into a store.

Rolex provided a master class in achieving this, which is why shops are begging to be AD's for the brand.

If I were Doxa, I would be sponsoring as many "Save the Ocean" / "Surfrider" / ocean explorer type events as possible. I would be pumping out blog posts like this POLAR EXPLORERS AND ALPINA WATCHES ADVENTURERS, BORGE OUSLAND AND VINCENT COLLIARD SUCCESSFULLY CROSSED THE ST. ELIAS ICE FIELD

on every watch enthusiast forum I could find.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I agree with you on the marketing and sponsorship side of things.......but.... I fear there are a couple of problems with it for Doxa and others in their market segment.

Dive watches... who the heck buys a dive watch to dive with it? Not that many people. I only wore mine to be trendy. Never used a NoDeco bezel and last thing I wanted to do was whack an expensive timepiece against the side of the boat or tank or lose the darn thing.

I honestly believe the days of Dive watches being a cool and highly sponsored thing are gone.

Game over  










The Mission 31 was a sponsorship dream. How many more Doxas did it sell...hmmmmm, debatable. I could ask a man who might know, but I won't. Not too many Mission 31 projects around and as for the ecology and save the ocean stuff, I'm not sure that it really drives sales so much. 

The other thing is as Jan points out the SUB is a desk diver, how do you promote that? With iphones and Macbooks in the background? Doxa isn't about Dive watches so much anymore, they are fashion items, timepieces that happen to have a diving heritage which is great but also limiting.

I don't know. Honestly because the man I could talk to is in a very similar position as Doxa way back in the day. Granted he has a more extensive catalog than he had with Doxa but it's a real tough game in that segment.



Ryeguy said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head, Doc.
> 
> In my opinion (FWIW), a brand that is in the AD business must be a focused marketing machine. They must create a demand for their product so that a consumer already has a desire to make a purchase when they walk into a store.
> 
> ...


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I hear you, and I don't necessarily disagree.

My perspective is less that a Rolex Sub (or Doxa) is an actual "diver's tool", but more about promoting the message that wearing a Rolex Sub (or Doxa) connects you in some way to that same spirit of adventure as an explorer might have. Let's face it, the idea being promoted isn't much different than the fire fighter outfit I bought my son when he was 5 years old. 

As my wife continues to say, boys must have their toys.

I'm not certain how else to promote a dive watch other than ocean type adventures. If Doxa could cross promote it with some type of ecological thing, then maybe all the better to get the young people to buy into the messaging.

The more I think about it, the more I would lean into this Instagram world. Just think about all the lifted Jeeps and 4X4 trucks out there with overlanding kit hanging off them. These vehicles likely go no further off road then a gravel driveway, but they have the "look" needed for the 'gram.

Let's face it, the market for mechanical watches is diminishing altogether. Most young folks either just use their cell phone or want a smart watch, but look how Fitbit promotes their product. All their advertising a centered around exercise, yet I see quite a few out of shape folks wearing Fitbits.

It is all about content creation to promote the message of "Doxa = Undersea Adventure". 

Heck, even Maranez has that ocean background on their website and the photo of the surfers lounging on their boards behind their products.

As an avid (notice I didn't say "good") surfer, I think Maranez hits the right chord. It is an affordable cool looking watch a surfer might wear. Cheap and cheerful and costs less than a new surfboard.

I'm not sure I would want to wear a $2K Doxa while tumbling around in the surf, but a $400 Maranez? Sure.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm guessing you are not one of these guys





__





Breitling Surfer Squad | #SQUADONAMISSION | Breitling US


The Breitling Surfer Squad is committed to maintaining oceans and beaches clean. Join Breitling's legacy.




www.breitling.com





wearing one of these 

Yea, you are right it is about identifying with a customer / consumer base and milking that with your marketing and alignment













Ryeguy said:


> I hear you, and I don't necessarily disagree.
> 
> My perspective is less that a Rolex Sub (or Doxa) is an actual "diver's tool", but more about promoting the message that wearing a Rolex Sub (or Doxa) connects you in some way to that same spirit of adventure as an explorer might have. Let's face it, the idea being promoted isn't much different than the fire fighter outfit I bought my son when he was 5 years old.
> 
> ...


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Times have changed. The Doxa SUB was born in a different world and time and different necessity for the watch. 60 years ago it was a tool watch, now it is just a watch. Nothing wrong with that and at the end of the day Doxa is in the business to sell watches not appease fan boys.


Good take Doc.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

LOL! 1,3,2. 

Nope, not me. None of the knucklehead surfers I hang out with would wear a $4k watch in the surf either!

FWIW, as much as I admire Kelly Slater as a surfer, the watch he wears has little influence on me.

Broadly speaking, my opinion is brand ambassador funding is largely wasted money.

With a brand like Doxa, I want a story, not a pretty face (no offense, Kelly. I have copied your haircut). 

Just think of how much mileage Eterna got out of that balsa wood raft voyage back in 1947. Heck, I bought two of their watches! 

There is a reason every religious leader speaks in parables. We all love a good story.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I agree with you on the marketing and sponsorship side of things.......but.... I fear there are a couple of problems with it for Doxa and others in their market segment.
> 
> Dive watches... who the heck buys a dive watch to dive with it? Not that many people. I only wore mine to be trendy. Never used a NoDeco bezel and last thing I wanted to do was whack an expensive timepiece against the side of the boat or tank or lose the darn thing.
> 
> ...


It’s an interesting point and like you say would be great for future business school case studies. 
The proliferation of numerous online only micro-brands in recent years all pursuing their own strategies without the inherent costs of bricks and mortar retail to support has been great for refreshing the sector and giving customers far more choice of quality watches at very affordable prices.
Some, such as Christopher Ward, appear to be going for a real growth strategy - even including TV advertising and in-house calibres, whilst others - like the resurrected Smiths brand - appear happy to remain a real niche product for enthusiasts.
As such Doxa were already in an increasingly crowded online sector so possibly felt the need to use their manufacturing capability to migrate into the wider retail market.
Out of all the watches I’ve owned over the years only 3 have ever attracted comment:
Is that a real Rolex (Submariner)?
Is that a real Omega (Seamaster)?
What is that thing (Doxa SUB300 Professional 50th Anniversary)?
In my view Doxa still have a few issues to contend with in making a successful transition:
The Doxa has a unique (function driving form?) aesthetic that people either love or hate so it tends to be quite divisive.
It’s core design language is also somewhat retro so again speaks to a specific audience.
The Doxa brand itself is also not widely known - my guess is that unprompted brand recall for Doxa would be at or around zero for much of the non-WIS audience.
Many brands in this price sector have already significantly increased their quality and introduced in-house calibres to stand out - can we say the same true with Doxa?
So can a product with such a narrow focus and low brand awareness become a successful AD driven mainstream product?
The cost of global marketing to generate sufficient sales to support a wider service network will be considerable - as will the need to provide a credible customer service network that will keep owners satisfied.
This by necessity increases the risk to a business of overextending itself and losing its core audience in the process.
This is not a real problem if it finds a larger replacement audience - although it’s original fan base will complain vociferously. The real problem comes if it doesn’t find a replacement audience and it’s original fan base moves on to other brands in the meantime.
I look forward to reading the case study when it comes out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

adg31 said:


> So can a product with such a narrow focus and low brand awareness become a successful AD driven mainstream product?
> 
> I look forward to reading the case study when it comes out
> 
> ...


I agree your post, but this sentence summarizes the key challenge for Doxa. 

From a business perspective, I think the (likely) AD agreement that requires the return of unsold stock is an enhancement to this challenge. 

I don’t see it as a negative to the AD, but for Doxa it could be a “come back with your shield or on it” situation for Jan. Every AD that decides against carrying Doxa brand products has an immediate negative financial impact to the business. 

Personally, my assessment is Jan went too big, too quickly without having the infrastructure (marketing, customer service, etc.) in place to support the growth. All he did by adding AD’s was distribute the relatively fixed number of Doxa customers across a wider network of locations to buy. 

For example, I‘d be curious to learn how much training Doxa provided to the AD’s. I’m sure we all have had situations where we’ve gone to a watch shop only to realize we know much more about the brand and model we’re looking at than the salesperson. We, however, are the outliers. 

If the salesperson doesn’t know the Doxa history, I suspect the Doxa models will be described as “the oddly shaped watch with bright dial colors and weird numbers on the bezel“. I’m not sure that will move a lot of stock.


----------



## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm guessing you are not one of these guys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you get a free Pride flag with this?


----------



## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

adg31 said:


> Christopher Ward, appear to be going for a real growth strategy


If they wanted to do that they should stop printing "Christopher Ward" across the watch face.


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

Watchout63 said:


> Do you get a free Pride flag with this?


you wouldn't need it because you'd be wearing one.


----------



## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

Brand ambassadors are a big turn off for me - the main reason why I haven't bought a Tudor. Things like Kontiki and Mission 31 are great examples of associations but just can't see Doxa having the budget to get involved with something that would capture wide-spread appeal. And you need that wide spread appeal to reach the level of sales they are aiming for - the dive/surfer community is just too limited, and as has been said ... who buys a dive watch for diving now? 

The other issue would be the more you populate ADs and join the mainstream market, the more these dealers will want to offer competitive discounts at certain times , as they do with other watches at Doxa's price point.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Munks337 said:


> If they wanted to do that they should stop printing "Christopher Ward" across the watch face.


Like the new Aquitaine?










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 8505davids (Jan 14, 2017)

I'm not sure I like that branding any better - looks like a jigsaw piece! Does somehow seem to be bigger issue for CW than any other company...but I suppose its quite a long name (the Christopher part anyway) and at the end of the day its just an ordinary English blokes name...maybe if they French-ed it up a bit it might be more glamourous and appealing....Christophe and-whatever-is-French-for Ward...


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## audio.bill (Feb 14, 2017)

In case anyone's interested in a Jenny Caribbean as an alternative, Purchase Direct has the new version in all four colorways available at 34% off with a 30 day return policy:
Jenny Caribbean models at Purchase Direct
... and they're actually in stock and ready to ship!


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

8505davids said:


> Brand ambassadors are a big turn off for me - the main reason why I haven't bought a Tudor. Things like Kontiki and Mission 31 are great examples of associations but just can't see Doxa having the budget to get involved with something that would capture wide-spread appeal. And you need that wide spread appeal to reach the level of sales they are aiming for - the dive/surfer community is just too limited, and as has been said ... who buys a dive watch for diving now?
> 
> The other issue would be the more you populate ADs and join the mainstream market, the more these dealers will want to offer competitive discounts at certain times , as they do with other watches at Doxa's price point.


I don't think Doxa need to sold in dive shops or surf shops. My thought is, if I were marketing Doxa, I would try to sponsor some ocean (preferably ocean environmentally focused) adventure. The sponsorship is somewhat meaningless. What I'd really be going for is the story that I could post on social media. Doxa needs new stories and a constant stream of content.

Look at what Yeti does as an example. Who would've though people would spend hundreds of dollars on a premium cooler? The reason is, people think that owning a Yeti cooler makes them seem like an adventurer or something. I'm not saying Yeti's are bad coolers, and maybe I'd see the benefits if I needed something to stay cold for 3 days, but I still see a lot of Yeti coolers only used for afternoon beach trips.

If Doxa were 100% e-commerce, like most other micro brands, I would say forget the marketing thing and just participate in enthusiast online forums. 

When they sign up AD's, I feel like the brand has an obligation to pump the product. To me, that is kind of the unofficial contract. You sell the watches, I'll drive up demand.

Without a push from the brand marketing department, and without the ability to encourage impulse sales through discounting (creating a sense of urgency), then I just don't see this strategy working.


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm interested to see what happens here:










I don't think anyone would bet against a steel version of the Army at $1499. They say new timepieces but that may not necessarily mean multiple new models, could be just the Army with all the skittles colours dials.

Let's assume the case is a steel replica of the ceramic. I like what they did with that case. Heck, I like it so much I'd be tempted to get one and try to stick a NoDeCo bezel on it and transplant my DWL guts

Would the Army be as big a seller as the classic SUB 300 / 300T or cheaper 200? Good question. If people are buying the other models in ADs because they like the dial colours and the Tonneau case / Omega shape case with no real understanding of the Doxa brand or history, then maybe the Army will sell just as well. I don't know and I'm probably not the guy to ever know because I'm the older generation Doxa fan who liked it and bought it for reasons that the younger crowd don't care about. Does anyone under 25 read Cussler books? 

Classic example....... me.. it has all wheel drive, twin overhead cams, twin turbo, puts out 700bhp at the rear axle and does 0 to 60 in 4.3 seconds..... My wife...is it red?


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Jomashop still hasn't canceled my Sub 300 Divingstar order. Just hanging out there


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

WRXtranceformed said:


> Jomashop still hasn't canceled my Sub 300 Divingstar order. Just hanging out there


Me either. I’m just letting it go on and on for as long as they want.


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm interested to see what happens here:
> 
> View attachment 16732245
> 
> ...


Could not agree more  

_PM: so sorry to upset you sometimes._


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm interested to see what happens here:
> 
> View attachment 16732245
> 
> ...


I’ll hop by the Beau-Rivage (if they continue to admit the common folks, which hugely distinguished them from other brands last year) - be it only to chose a 600T color... 

Not holding my breath on novelties, though. A steel Army (in PVD/DLC) at 2k (2.5k in titanium) might well be the only thing I deem realistic. Actually, it would make a lot of sense now that the Synchron Military's release is off most people's mind and its used prices are rather silly.


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## JIFB (May 7, 2017)

Yep... Announcement mentions new timepieceS... So there might be something more than the single SS/Ti Army?
Still waiting for a classical Sub with ceramic insert in the bezel.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm interested to see what happens here:
> 
> View attachment 16732245
> 
> ...


Does anyone still read at all?


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Yea, I have to agree and in fact I'm kinda guilty. I haven't read a non text book in years, BUT... I am an audiobook fanatic. Driving, flying, running, exercise bike, sitting in airports, I'm burning through them.



RSM13 said:


> Does anyone still read at all?


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

Received this email from Joma today.

Apparently there has been some unexpected delays ... 

"Good afternoon,

Thank you for shopping with Jomashop. This email is an update regarding your Doxa watch order with our company. We do apologize for the delay in fulfilling this order for you. 
We are still working on sourcing the watch for you but have experienced unexpected delays. At this time, we do not have an eta but are hoping they will come into stock. If you are interested in keeping the order open, we will continue to work on sourcing and will advise once the item is in and ready for shipping.

If there is another item you may be interested in instead, I would be more than happy to check stock for you and swap the order.

Once again, we do apologize for the inconvenience.

Thank you,


𝓡𝓮𝓰𝓲𝓷𝓮
Customer Service
(877) 834-1434
Jomashop.com"


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

It’s kinda sad that I have to be jealous of your “dear John” letters! 

All I get from Joma is a near continuous stream of spam emails for their latest sales events.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

No communication from Joma on my end, just a Perpetually open order "Awaiting Shipment"


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

My favorite part is where you can't combine that $5 coupon with any other offer 😂


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

I just got off the phone with Jomashop. (July 13, 2022 @1105 PST)

I talked to Anna, she apologized for the lack of communication and said all the Doxa orders are being cancelled and we should received notification soon.

SO ends DOXA-gate, not with a bang but a wimper.

I guess if I want a high quality 42mm Yellow dialed diver I will have to pay full price.



email I got a minute ago, right after posting:

Dear JIM BIANCHI,

We regret to inform you that the item(s) you ordered are no longer available and your order has been cancelled.
Order#: Mxxxxx placed on Jomashop
Item number(s): Doxa SUB 200 Divingstar Automatic Mens Watch 799.10.361.10 

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this has caused and would like to provide you with a $5 coupon off your next order which cannot be combined with any other coupons or promotions, limit one coupon per order.
Coupon Code: CANC5WIVO60Q


Please be advised that we DO NOT charge your credit card until the order ships. When an order is placed the amount is held as a pending authorization on your account which is voided upon cancellation and normally released within 2-4 business days.

Please note: Amazon Payments, ApplePay, VisaPay, BitPay and Nihao Bank orders have been charged at the time of order placement and will be refunded on our end within 2-4 business days.

Again we are very sorry for any inconvenience. Please feel free to contact us should you need any further assistance.

Thank you
Jomashop Order Processing


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

I’m satisfied with the Seestern Sub 300. Wearing it with a Wolbrook Rally Tropic rubber strap.









#NeverPayRetail


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> I’m satisfied with the Seestern Sub 300. Wearing it with a Wolbrook Rally Tropic rubber strap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Having the Maranez and a Tactical Frog versions, I can't for see me shelling out $2K for the Doxa when in my opinion the only difference would be the movement which you can't see anyway. I doubt the finishing is much better on the Doxa over these homage models.


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## Sampo2 (Jun 11, 2021)

Watchout63 said:


> Having the Maranez and a Tactical Frog versions, I can't for see me shelling out $2K for the Doxa when in my opinion the only difference would be the movement which you can't see anyway. I doubt the finishing is much better on the Doxa over these homage models.


As several others around here, I have both Doxa and Maranez watches. I love them both and the Maranez is a keeper, but the finishing is indeed better on the Doxa. Is the difference in quality worth the difference in price though? Probably not, since the Maranez is great value and Doxa is a bit overpriced for may taste. But certainly there is a difference.


----------



## Ot1S (Apr 18, 2018)

Yeah, the Maranez Samui Vintage is an excellent Watch.......I prefer it over the 300t........The 300 is a different story all together I like to point out that it is 2mm wider and it is way thinner (the crystal ads at least 2 mm in height) speaking of the crystal it offers more dial distortion 😀 and what hasn't been mentioned either is the fact that the bracelet flares out after the lugs which again makes the Watch looks very flat almost organic and very comfortable on the wrist. 
The lume still sucks though 😕
Again there is NO substitute (or better looking watch) than the 300.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

My crystal ball suggests we’ll see this thread revived within the next 6 months. 

I still believe Doxa does not have the financial capability to handle a situation where multiple small (or even one large) distributor chooses to end their relationship with the brand. There is only so much stock they are able to buy back. 

We’ll see, but obviously one AD gave going to the grey market a shot already. Where there is one, chances are there are more.


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

I am devastated ...


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## Semper Jeep (Jan 11, 2013)

jorgenl said:


> I am devastated ...
> 
> View attachment 16769708


Just got the same message. I guess I can stop holding my breath!


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## Munks337 (Dec 14, 2021)

jorgenl said:


> I am devastated ...


I thought you guys were joking about the *$5* off coupon. hahaha, amazing!


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

Munks337 said:


> I thought you guys were joking about the *$5* off coupon. hahaha, amazing!


So did I, somebody over Jomashop was probably real tired of getting those "where is my Doxa?" phone calls from us 26 percenters. Truly impressive on the part of Jomashop.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Munks337 said:


> I thought you guys were joking about the *$5* off coupon. hahaha, amazing!


I think I mockingly suggested Joma would give everyone a $25 discount in a post a while back. $5???? Wow, that is just insulting.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Ryeguy said:


> My crystal ball suggests we’ll see this thread revived within the next 6 months.
> 
> I still believe Doxa does not have the financial capability to handle a situation where multiple small (or even one large) distributor chooses to end their relationship with the brand. There is only so much stock they are able to buy back.
> 
> We’ll see, but obviously one AD gave going to the grey market a shot already. Where there is one, chances are there are more.


Maybe, but you do realize what you see in North America as Doxa (what you see in Asia and Eastern Europe as Doxa is something else) is just a tiny piece of Walca Group's business, right? This isn't a startup that sells a single line of products.

All of these Doxa Subs that are sold today are just decendents of forum watches that grew out of here in 2001ish. AFAIK, Walca Group remains a player in Switzerland's private label watch industry.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> Maybe, but you do realize what you see in North America as Doxa (what you see in Asia and Eastern Europe as Doxa is something else) is just a tiny piece of Walca Group's business, right? This isn't a startup that sells a single line of products.
> 
> All of these Doxa Subs that are sold today are just decendents of forum watches that grew out of here in 2001ish. AFAIK, Walca Group remains a player in Switzerland's private label watch industry.


According to D&B, Walca AG annual sales revenue is $3.81 Million (which, ironically, is the same as what they have listed for Doxa). 

That revenue number, even if radically underestimated by D&B, hardly makes them a “player”. They are a small business. 

Take that revenue number, then subtract out your estimate for labor costs, raw material costs, and other business expenses. I believe, even if conservative in your expense estimates, what you’d be left with is a relatively slim profit margin. 

Now imagine if two or three AD’s, each with $30K worth of inventory (cost, not MSRP), wish to quit the Doxa AD family at roughly the same time. 

My hypothesis is Doxa / Walca would be hard pressed to come up with $50 - $100K of cash to buy that inventory back. 

The reality is the contract is only enforceable if Doxa / Walca has the means to buy back AD unsold inventory. If an AD wishes to quit, and they have unsold stock unable to be returned back to Doxa, they will dump it on the grey market. 

My hypothesis is, ”Jomagate” occurred due to only one single AD, and it seems to have taken some effort by Doxa to kill it. If two or three AD’s go (or one big one), I think Joma or Ashford is back to selling Doxa’s.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Ryeguy said:


> According to D&B, Walca AG annual sales revenue is $3.81 Million (which, ironically, is the same as what they have listed for Doxa).
> 
> That revenue number, even if radically underestimated by D&B, hardly makes them a “player”. They are a small business.
> 
> ...


Doesn't D&B model its data for private companies? Is there a public disclosure you can link?


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> Doesn't D&B model its data for private companies? Is there a public disclosure you can link?


No, I am only using publicly available documentation. I would certainly not share private data on a public forum.

D&B does model data, but context clues (such as using Google Street View to look at their HQ building which only has 6 parking spots allocated to Walca and none for Doxa which shares the same address) suggests they are probably pretty accurate in their modeling. 

Even if D&B is 100% wrong and Walca's revenue is twice what is modeled, a $7M company is still a pretty small business in my opinion. 

Again, everything is just hypothesis and conjecture on my part and is purely focused on the Doxa brand expansion strategy from an "on-line sales" model only to a global AD network.


----------



## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Ryeguy said:


> No, I am only using publicly available documentation. I would certainly not share private data on a public forum.
> 
> D&B does model data, but context clues (such as using Google Street View to look at their HQ building which only has 6 parking spots allocated to Walca and none for Doxa which shares the same address) suggests they are probably pretty accurate in their modeling.
> 
> ...


The number of parking spaces dedicated to the building in Switzerland doesn't say much, IMO. As with all small Swiss watch brands, it's murky as to where all of the components are made. Walca Far East Ltd, appears to be a big part of their business, but it's impossible to tell what exactly they do or even where their actual manufacturing facilities are located. If you dig around on the web, you can find some absolutely crazy (and probably largely exaggerated) stuff about this published by a disgruntled employee of Doxa who appeared to be trying to extort a higher salary out of them.

Walca designs and manufactures private Swiss and Asian lines for unknown customers. I don't believe it, but one person here was alleging that Walca "makes the Speedy cases for Omega." Doxa-in-Asia is a completely different line of (really ugly) Swiss watches sold only in China. And all of it is cloaked in secrecy like so many things Swiss and Chinese.

Also, a lot of the value in these Swiss watch companies resides in the intellectual property; not in annual sales. At one point, I was going to register a trademark that another Swiss watch company had negligently allowed to expire, but realized the deeper I got that I was just really buying a lawsuit. There is inherent value in trading, selling and borrowing against the intellectual property.

You could, of course, be correct about everything. It's one of those time will tell things, I guess.

What amazes me are companies like Cyma that seem to have an exclusively Asian presence and no real sales. How they haven't immediately folded up one hundred times over is a complete mystery to me.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

BigBluefish said:


> I think I mockingly suggested Joma would give everyone a $25 discount in a post a while back. $5???? Wow, that is just insulting.


Don't forget, that's $5 that _cannot be combined with any other offer_

Thanks Jomashop


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> You could, of course, be correct about everything. It's one of those time will tell things, I guess.
> 
> What amazes me are companies like Cyma that seem to have an exclusively Asian presence and no real sales. How they haven't immediately folded up one hundred times over is a complete mystery to me.


Yes, I’m just playing internet detective using context clues to estimate the size of the company. 

Another point of reference is a recent job posting on LinkedIn for a position in Doxa where the company is listed as being between 51 - 200 total employees. 

I could be wrong, but clues seem to pointing to “small business”.

It will be interesting to see if the AD strategy works out.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Ryeguy said:


> Yes, I’m just playing internet detective using context clues to estimate the size of the company.
> 
> Another point of reference is a recent job posting on LinkedIn for a position in Doxa where the company is listed as being between 51 - 200 total employees.
> 
> ...


The company is in kind of a strange position. They were resurrected from the dead as a forum watch and maintain a pretty passionate (at times verging on toxic) fan base from those days as a result. It's clear that the company is trying to break out into the mainstream, but that's a tough sell without committing a lot of cash they presumably don't have to marketing. And it's a catch-22, right? The more mainstream they become, the more they alienate the Marei era "early adopters."

The product does sell itself to some extent, though. The only watches non-watch people ever ask me about are my Professional and Aquamarine Doxas.The fact the Chinese are now copying them means they must be doing something right. I agree with one thing, though. The more ADs they go into, the more impossible it will become to control the secondary market.


----------



## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

Ryeguy said:


> Yes, I’m just playing internet detective using context clues to estimate the size of the company.
> 
> Another point of reference is a recent job posting on LinkedIn for a position in Doxa where the company is listed as being between 51 - 200 total employees.
> 
> ...


revenue of 3.8 or 7 MUSD does not correlate with 51-200 employees.

If that was the case that would be losing money at a very fast rate


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm with you on that, but I'm not sure where the 51 - 200 comes from as in the Message from DOXA Switzerland they state they are 42. But let's look at that. I'm not sure it is the truth either because in the Marei era, Doxa included Synchron employees as being part of Doxa, which they weren't. But let's say for argument's sake that the 42 are real fully employed staff and let's say the average wage is $50,000 a year. Where do I get that from? Well depending on what you read a McDonalds employee in Switzerland gets 29 - 49,000 USD a year, I'd say Doxa pay their guys in Switzerland and Germany more than a McDonalds employee and I'll also bet big, bad Jan isn't on food stamps  So let's say even with his superstar CEO salary it averages out globally to $50k a year. That's over 2,000,000 in salaries alone.

So even before tax and other expenses we might be talking over 2 million smackeroonies out the door on a 3.8 million revenue. Now maybe Doxa don't pay Walca to manufacture the watches, but I seriously doubt that.

Heck, I don't know. Obviously, any profit is better than no profit and the more the better, I'm just not convinced any of the numbers are strictly accurate.


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## jorgenl (Dec 1, 2017)

Flyingdoctor said:


> I'm with you on that, but I'm not sure where the 51 - 200 comes from as in the Message from DOXA Switzerland they state they are 42. But let's look at that. I'm not sure it is the truth either because in the Marei era, Doxa included Synchron employees as being part of Doxa, which they weren't. But let's say for argument's sake that the 42 are real fully employed staff and let's say the average wage is $50,000 a year. Where do I get that from? Well depending on what you read a McDonalds employee in Switzerland gets 29 - 49,000 USD a year, I'd say Doxa pay their guys in Switzerland and Germany more than a McDonalds employee and I'll also bet big, bad Jan isn't on food stamps  So let's say even with his superstar CEO salary it averages out globally to $50k a year. That's over 2,000,000 in salaries alone.
> 
> No idea what the *tax on a $3.8 million revenue *is in Switzerland. But even if it was only 20% that's nearly 800,000 bucks. So even before other expenses we are talking 3 million smackeroonies out the door on a 3.8 million revenue. Now maybe Doxa don't pay Walca to manufacture the watches, but I seriously doubt that.
> 
> Heck, I don't know. Obviously, any profit is better than no profit and the more the better, I'm just not convinced any of the numbers are strictly accurate.


in most countries tax is on net profit, not revenue.


----------



## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks. Shows how little I know  



jorgenl said:


> in most countries tax is on net profit, not revenue.


----------



## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Now maybe Doxa don't pay Walca to manufacture the watches, but I seriously doubt that.


I think this is the big piece of it all. Up to 2019, Doxa was advertising itself as a 100% fully owned subsidiary of Walca. I bet Doxa exists to own the intellectual property and for certain marketing and taxation reasons. I also bet everyone associated with both companies have NDAs in place so tight no one will ever know the truth. 

And this is pretty much every Swiss watch company out there; the small ones especially. Ball appears to operate out of a broom closet.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

$5.00 off coupon really says we don't want your business ever again...... thats got to be under .0025% of the average Doxa sale.. hahahahaha

I wonder how much the customer service call and email volume went down after we all realized we were never getting watches from them?


----------



## Awesom-O 4000 (Sep 20, 2018)

STARSTELLA said:


> I wonder how much the customer service call and email volume went down after we all realized we were never getting watches from them?


I'm almost tempted to call and be like "I've got 100 Doxa's to unload, cheap, you want em?"

Knock at my door. Look out the peep hole. Jomashop employees waiting outside....


----------



## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

Remember when it was said in this thread that Seiko itself never discounts?

A recent email I received from their mailing list:










Pepperidge Farm remembers 😴


----------



## TraserH3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Dang I was hoping for a good outcome!


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

This my replacement for the Doxa 200T
Citizen JDM $230


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I did finally get my "thank you for playing" emails from Joma with my $5 off, not to be combined with any other offer, coupons.

As much as I am hoping our global economies recover and we are able to reel in this rising inflation, I am also very curious to see how Doxa, with its relatively new AD network, navigates through this economic turmoil.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

I'm not ready to give up 





on this 76 page thread yet


----------



## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




----------



## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)




----------



## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)




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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Is it only me, or did this Doxa sale thread pump a ton of life into this sub-forum that now seems to be back on life support?

As of me writing this post, this thread is down to about the 20th position in the rankings, so no activity on it in about the last 2 / 3 weeks. It had 22,000 views and more than 2,000 responses.

The only thread that comes close in the line-up of active threads above this one is the "What are you wearing that is not a Doxa?" thread (which is kind of sad when you think about the topic).

If WUS is truly the largest watch forum on the net, the lack of new activity on this sub-forum ought to be scary for Doxa management.

If nothing else, it is a clear indication that people will buy, and be excited about discussing, the ability to get a Doxa Sub at Joma prices. At current MSRP, pretty much crickets around here.


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## Ot1S (Apr 18, 2018)

......Yeah pretty quiet over here 🤫 
Let's hope that the new models that will be released at the end of this month will bring back live to this SUB.....forum ; )
I'm hoping for the new military case in steel with the "normal" dial colors priced somewhere between the 200 and the 300t.......


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

Ot1S said:


> ......Yeah pretty quiet over here 🤫
> Let's hope that the new models that will be released at the end of this month will bring back live to this SUB.....forum ; )
> I'm hoping for the new military case in steel with the "normal" dial colors priced somewhere between the 200 and the 300t.......


yeah, cut my viewership down about 90% because of the professional negativity and snide remarks about the brand. it was just too much.


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## Davida3544 (10 mo ago)

RSM13 said:


> yeah, cut my viewership down about 90% because of the professional negativity and snide remarks about the brand. it was just too much.


Agreed. Too much negativity in the sub forum for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

I haven't seen the statement that they are officially releasing anything at the end of this month. Do you have a link to any articles?


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

I read quite a bit of this sub forum. Maybe I'm guilty of not participating as much as I'd like, but in all fairness I think Doxa (management) has left quite a bit of a bitter taste in quite a few fans/collectors mouths. 
Maybe if they contributed a tad more (positively) instead of only contributing negatively and imo a tad bullish towards folks, then it might brighten the place up a touch. 
No doubt we'll get a bit of sweetness and light from them once the new models are set to be released.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

RSM13 said:


> yeah, cut my viewership down about 90% because of the professional negativity and snide remarks about the brand. it was just too much.


Same here. I'm not sure why Doxa sponsors this forum anymore. It's pretty toxic.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> Same here. I'm not sure why Doxa sponsors this forum anymore. It's pretty toxic.


Probably because the people in this forum represent a significant fraction of their business????


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

drmdwebb said:


> Probably because the people in this forum represent a significant fraction of their business????


Do they? I don't know if that's true. I'd say Doxa sponsors this forum more out of loyalty to the days when it was strictly a "forum watch" more than anything else. The constant negativity on this forum hurts the brand more than it promotes it in this era.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> Do they? I don't know if that's true. I'd say Doxa sponsors this forum more out of loyalty to the days when it was strictly a "forum watch" more than anything else. The constant negativity on this forum hurts the brand more than it promotes it in this era.


If people are negative towards a brand there is usually a reason so, purely out of interest, what do you think is behind the constant negativity in the forum that you refer to?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

adg31 said:


> If people are negative towards a brand there is usually a reason so, purely out of interest, what do you think is behind the constant negativity in the forum that you refer to?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


On here, I see it as two things: In part, it's people who were around during the forum watch days who are frustrated about the company's lack of interest in their ideas now. Doxa seems to be trying hard to consolidate its brand and to be something other than a watch of endless special editions which is what the forum users want. Doxa is in kind of a lousy position this way. They are trying to shed the perception of being an "amateur hour" operation that custom makes watches for people on the Internet, but in so doing they alienate everyone they hurt the feelings of everyone that revived the brand.

The second thing is that there is still some negative sentiment about Doxa which was stirred up by a former employee in the USA who spread endless negative rumors about the company to anyone who would listen for years after his discharge because of a compensation issue. If you poke around on some of the other forums on the Internet, you'll find some of the threats he was making against the company with all of the players named. He was so prolific in contacting anyone thinking about buying a Doxa in PMs and spreading online rumors, he managed to do a bit of long term damage to Doxa.

Passionate people get gatekeepery and protective as well. Look at something like Disney and Star Wars. The core online fan base is so granular about all things they grew up with in the original movies, Disney can't do a thing without being criticized. On the forums, Doxa suffers this curse.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

I came into Doxa late in the game, missed all that drama. 

I like Doxa, I've owned (and still own) a few but some of their stuff is a bit overpriced for what you get when compared to their competition (looking at you, 300 and 300T).


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

valerian839 said:


> I came into Doxa late in the game, missed all that drama.
> 
> I like Doxa, I've owned (and still own) a few but some of their stuff is a bit overpriced for what you get when compared to their competition (looking at you, 300 and 300T).


As opposed to what? If anything, Doxa occupies that strange mid range area of pricing where it is so much less expensive than other divers with a similar historic pedigree that it looks like something must be wrong with it in comparison.


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## Crazy Cajun (Oct 19, 2006)

JimBianchi said:


> This my replacement for the Doxa 200T
> Citizen JDM $230
> View attachment 16785024


With mineral crystal and no screw down crown at only 100m too.


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

Crazy Cajun said:


> With mineral crystal and no screw down crown at only 100m too.


I just love the dial on the Citizen, And the price of $230 is excellent value. Not a real diver, but a real beauty.

I also picked up a Nodus yellow dial, sapphire, 200m, screw down crown for $300. Nodus almost ticks all the marks.

The $750 I saved not buying the Doxa 200T went to good use.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> As opposed to what? If anything, Doxa occupies that strange mid range area of pricing where it is so much less expensive than other divers with a similar historic pedigree that it looks like something must be wrong with it in comparison.


I'm not certain about this (unless I am misreading your comment).

Are you saying that Doxa Subs are comparatively less expensive than similar historically relevant brand offerings? 

My perspective is actually just the opposite. Doxa Sub pricing ($1,850 for the 300T on bracelet) puts it in the "near luxury" category, but without the brand awareness. For about this same price, I could get a Longines Heritage Skin Diver.








Image credit: Hodinkee

For about half the Doxa Sub 300T price, you can pick up a Certina DS Super 500M.








Image credit: Monochrome Watches

One could argue Squale has a similar historical pedigree as Doxa. Despite having very similar specifications, the 50ATMOS is again 50% the cost of a 300T.

My perspective is, what Doxa had going for it was:

Good quality
Historical design / pedigree
Bright / unique dial colors

Ten years ago, this was a unique value proposition. Today, it seems every major brand is producing "heritage" models and micro brands have really up'ed their game. I can find similarly spec'd watches for much less than a 300T and I can find more well-known brand offerings for similar prices to a Doxa 300T.

I'm not trying to take a dig at Doxa because I still believe if you want a Doxa, you just have to buy a Doxa. Nothing else will do. I'm just not certain the market size of those "must have a Doxa" people is there to support the business. 

My opinion is I think Joma priced the Doxa 300T correctly at about $1,300. At this price, Doxa would take market share away from Squale and mid range Seiko divers.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

To me, Glycine is doing more interesting stuff than Doxa recently. Despite being "oWnEd By InViCtA" their parent company just kind of let them do their thing and they're churning up some great Swiss watches that regularly sell through ADs such as Gnomon for significantly less than MSRP. They have a long brand heritage as well.

39mm, 300m, sapphire, basically the same movement that is in the Doxas, comfortable size, crispy bezel action and a bunch of colorways. $550 from Gnomon.


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## RSM13 (Jul 10, 2020)

drmdwebb said:


> Probably because the people in this forum represent a significant fraction of their business????


You really think that? I highly doubt that. If that were so they would be out of business.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Ryeguy said:


> I'm not certain about this (unless I am misreading your comment).
> 
> Are you saying that Doxa Subs are comparatively less expensive than similar historically relevant brand offerings?
> 
> ...


That's exactly what I'm saying. Doxa has a deep heritage that connects it to Cousteau, SEALAB, Dirk Pitt, a whole host of saturation divers in the 70s and unique historic developments relating to the double scale bezel and the development of the helium release valve (with or without Rolex depending on who you believe, but most certainly released 2 years before the Sea Dweller). It also has a non diving Bauhaus connection that has sadly been lost.

Certina has some minor dive heritage, but nothing like the connections the 300T Conquistador, Sea-Dweller and the Ploprof have to saturation diving. Squale was a minor manufacturer of cases and is a longtime Rolex homage manufacturer a la Steinhart. Longines has no real dive heritage outside of its association with EPSA, but that's a lot of divers from that era. The old Cousteau films are just littered with Doxas.

Doxa is very fairly priced on the uniqueness of its design and its heritage.

If your argument is to say that all current driven 2824 divers are basically the same, I guess that's one way of looking at it. I suppose a Seiko Turtle works just as well in the briny depths as anything else. After all, what is any luxury product really worth? A super-clone Submariner hits pretty close on the mark to a real Sub when you take passion out of the equation. The same goes for a fake Patek or a genuine Invicta.

All of this loses the point made a few posts back, however, which is viewership of this forum is dying on the vine at least in part because of all of the negativity. This caused me to wonder why Doxa even sponsors anything here anymore. I still have no idea.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying. Doxa has a deep heritage that connects it to Cousteau, SEALAB, Dirk Pitt, a whole host of saturation divers in the 70s and unique historic developments relating to the double scale bezel and the development of the helium release valve (with or without Rolex depending on who you believe, but most certainly released 2 years before the Sea Dweller). It also has a non diving Bauhaus connection that has sadly been lost.


I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The '70's had dozens of "iconic" dive watches as the scuba diving hobby took hold. Doxa was certainly one, but there were many, many others.

Personally, I think Squale is probably one of the most iconic of the '60's - '70's era Swiss divers, not only producing their own watches, but also making cases for Blancpain, TAG Heuer, and even Doxa.

What I find interesting is the strategies the surviving brands have used to stay alive these past 50 years. Rolex has famously moved beyond its "tool watch" history and re-fashioned itself into a symbol of wealth and achievement. I'm not saying a Rolex Sub isn't a capable dive watch, but their target market for that watch is no longer the avid SCUBA diver.

Doxa and Squale, until recently, seem to have focused on the niche "watch enthusiast" market, seeking out knowledgeable buyers who value the history of these brands. This, I believe, was the reason for their previous forum involvement. It was marketing.

With Doxa's recent expansion in distribution networks (AD's), they seem to be looking to move beyond the niche enthusiast market and attempt to penetrate the "near luxury" watch market. This is why I believe they have diminished their involvement in this forum. They are no longer looking for the "forum enthusiast" buyer. They want the jewellery store walk-in buyer.

My hypothesis is the jewellery store walk-in buyer will like not know who Dirk Pitt is, or SEALAB, and probably only have the vaguest of memories of who Cousteau was (likely not knowing or caring what brand watch he wore). 

In a watch forum environment, if someone posts "why is a Doxa 300T a $2K watch?", we can count on any number of brand enthusiasts to educate them on the rich heritage of the brand to justify the price point. The question is, will a Doxa Sub in a jeweler's watch case, stripped of its horological heritage, (because we know we can't rely on a jewellery store clerk to know this background information) be able to stand up against the watch competition in the $2K price point market?

I honestly don't know the answer, but my suspicion is "no" given that this thread (a grey market dealer attempting to sell Doxa Subs) started in the first place. Joma would not be getting a call from a jewellery store if Doxa Subs were flying off the shelves. 

As a matter of fact, I suspect this strategy could eventually alienate both markets. The "forum enthusiast" will eventually tire of participating in a dead sub-forum, and without a robust marketing campaign (such as this by Longines Longines : Events and sports competitions), the jewellery store walk-in prospective buyer will remain largely ignorant of Doxa's remarkable history and simply compare the watch to others in their price range.


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## adg31 (Dec 28, 2010)

Ryeguy said:


> I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The '70's had dozens of "iconic" dive watches as the scuba diving hobby took hold. Doxa was certainly one, but there were many, many others.
> 
> Personally, I think Squale is probably one of the most iconic of the '60's - '70's era Swiss divers, not only producing their own watches, but also making cases for Blancpain, TAG Heuer, and even Doxa.
> 
> ...


Some very good points here; I would also question what a 2022 Doxa has in common with a 1960’s Doxa besides the name.
Rolex, Omega et al seem to me have a far more direct family lineage to their past than do Doxa - I may be wrong?
In terms of heritage Dirk Pitt is (a) a fictional character and (b) started out wearing an Omega in The Mediterranean Caper.
Similarly Jacques Cousteau seemingly wore various brands besides Doxa with Rolex, Omega and Blancpain all reportedly on the roster of dive watches - again I may be wrong!
My experience is that the original online resurrection of the Doxa brand brought with it a cachet of ownership of something unique - almost being part of a club.
Yes, it had its faults and quibbles but it was something unique and distinctive that you didn’t get with mainstream brands.
Better still, many of the forum posts involved people actually using their watch whilst diving rather than indoors questioning if it was safe to wash their hands whilst wearing their new Rolex Submariner or Sea-Dweller.
Moving to the retail AD approach along with an online attitude of ‘telling’ customers what to do - ‘if you buy from Joma you won’t have a guarantee and we know who you are from our tracking system’ seems to slowly break this customer relationship down still further.
You can now walk into an AD and buy a Doxa again breaking down the direct relationship.
In the past I’ve had responses direct from Rick - would you get the same today?
At the same time I’m not sure that Doxa customer service - which was always seemingly a bone of contention - has improved to support a mainstream brand.
Finally there was a lot of disrespect shown to long standing Doxa enthusiasts on the forum by newcomers to the brand; any criticism of the new strategy was dismissed as ‘whining butt hurt’ or similar which really didn’t help!
Taking all this together, that is why I think there is a general feeling of negativity as the brand is now neither one thing nor the other to either audience.
Now here’s a gratuitous picture of my SUB300 from happier times!


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

I will try to address these points one by one:

"Some very good points here; I would also question what a 2022 Doxa has in common with a 1960’s Doxa besides the name.
Rolex, Omega et al seem to me have a far more direct family lineage to their past than do Doxa - I may be wrong?"

Rolex are the experts of brand protection. Doxa has had a storied revival and yet the Jenny family owns the intellectual property. The watches are for the most part the same. We can thank Dr. Millar and Rick Marei for that. As for Omega? Well, we have the Moonswatch.

"In terms of heritage Dirk Pitt is (a) a fictional character and (b) started out wearing an Omega in The Mediterranean Caper."

Bond is fictional as well. Omega rides those coattails for each new movie. Bond wore Rolex, Gruen, Omega, Seiko,.etc.

"Similarly Jacques Cousteau seemingly wore various brands besides Doxa with Rolex, Omega and Blancpain all reportedly on the roster of dive watches - again I may be wrong!"

True. Go watch the movies/documentaries, however. Doxa makes a ton of appearances.

"My experience is that the original online resurrection of the Doxa brand brought with it a cachet of ownership of something unique - almost being part of a club
Yes, it had its faults and quibbles but it was something unique and distinctive that you didn’t get with mainstream brands."

Agreed. And, yet, it was more of a club than a genuine brand at times. It has crossed over.

"Better still, many of the forum posts involved people actually using their watch whilst diving rather than indoors questioning if it was safe to wash their hands whilst wearing their new Rolex Submariner or Sea-Dweller.
Moving to the retail AD approach along with an online attitude of ‘telling’ customers what to do - ‘if you buy from Joma you won’t have a guarantee and we know who you are from our tracking system’ seems to slowly break this customer relationship down still further. You can now walk into an AD and buy a Doxa again breaking down the direct relationship."

Agreed. That is the natural order of things. I can't just call up Rolex. I enjoy watching Doxa ascend. Bring back the Grafic, I say.

"In the past I’ve had responses direct from Rick - would you get the same today?"

You also got John, an employee, trying to expose the company in public while cc'ing Rick and others on this forum. It was terribly unprofessional.

"At the same time I’m not sure that Doxa customer service - which was always seemingly a bone of contention - has improved to support a mainstream brand."

I feel if anything this has improved. The only difference is no discounts on past purchases.

"Finally there was a lot of disrespect shown to long standing Doxa enthusiasts on the forum by newcomers to the brand; any criticism of the new strategy was dismissed as ‘whining butt hurt’ or similar which really didn’t help!"

Yeah. And I'm guilty of this too. I need to knock it off. I've been here since 2007, however. 

"Taking all this together, that is why I think there is a general feeling of negativity as the brand is now neither one thing nor the other to either audience.
Now here’s a gratuitous picture of my SUB300 from happier times!"

Here is mine.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Ryeguy said:


> I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The '70's had dozens of "iconic" dive watches as the scuba diving hobby took hold. Doxa was certainly one, but there were many, many others.
> 
> Personally, I think Squale is probably one of the most iconic of the '60's - '70's era Swiss divers, not only producing their own watches, but also making cases for Blancpain, TAG Heuer, and even Doxa.
> 
> ...


I said earlier that if your opinion is that all 2824 driven divers are the same, we fundamentally disagree. Most of this boils down to that. Perhaps consumers don't care, but I think they do. You might be right. I might be. The market will decide what is true, no?


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> I will try to address these points one by one:
> 
> "Some very good points here; I would also question what a 2022 Doxa has in common with a 1960’s Doxa besides the name.
> Rolex, Omega et al seem to me have a far more direct family lineage to their past than do Doxa - I may be wrong?"
> ...


Slip of the finger. Mod please delete this post.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> I said earlier that if your opinion is that all 2824 driven divers are the same, we fundamentally disagree. Most of this boils down to that. Perhaps consumers don't care, but I think they do. You might be right. I might be. The market will decide what is true, no?


I’m not sure how you got that from what I wrote. 

FWIW, if you want a 2824-2 powered watch, you are pretty much limited to Swatch Group brand watches now. Otherwise, it’ll be a Sellita SW200 (hopefully, an SW200-1).


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Ryeguy said:


> I’m not sure how you got that from what I wrote.
> 
> FWIW, if you want a 2824-2 powered watch, you are pretty much limited to Swatch Group brand watches now. Otherwise, it’ll be a Sellita SW200 (hopefully, an SW200-1).


Sellita SW200 and ETA 2824 are fundamentally the same movement. You think consumers don't care about real heritage. I do.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> Sellita SW200 and ETA 2824 are fundamentally the same movement. You think consumers don't care about real heritage. I do.


Do you really believe the average consumer (not watch forum enthusiasts- I mean real people) know about Doxa history?

There is a reason watch brands spend so much on marketing. It is to raise brand awareness to the consumer. 

If Doxa invested in a bold marketing campaign, then I would agree, consumers would care. They can’t care, however, if they are ignorant. If Doxa is relying on jewelry store clerks to educate the consumer, then (based on my experience) they will be disappointed.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

I am only aware of 4 retail locations in the US (2 Watches of Switzerland stores and 2 of their subsidiary Mayors) that have DOXA on display. 

Personally, I think the Sub 300 and 300T are priced at least $500 too high.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

valerian839 said:


> Personally, I think the Sub 300 and 300T are priced at least $500 too high.


When you look at what the likes of Zodiac, Oris and Squale (even Sinn) are offering in that $1000 to $2000 area, I think so too.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

valerian839 said:


> I am only aware of 4 retail locations in the US (2 Watches of Switzerland stores and 2 of their subsidiary Mayors) that have DOXA on display.
> 
> Personally, I think the Sub 300 and 300T are priced at least $500 too high.


According to Doxa's store locator page (STORE LOCATOR ), there are 5 AD's in the USA. I'm not certain if they all have Doxa's on display and in stock, but they are listed as AD locations.

It looks like Doxa has signed up a total of 59 AD locations (I've subtracted the Doxa HQ locations they have on their store locator list). The distribution seems to be focused on Central Europe, then the Middle East, then a handful in India and the USA. 

My opinion is (and MaximillionBuxx will likely disagree) that establishing this large a distribution network means you are going after the "mainstream" buyer, but I don't believe Doxa has the brand awareness necessary to capture this market. With no disrespect, Doxa is a niche brand that would have happily plugged along as a forum favorite if left alone. Outside the forum environment, I believe Doxa is an unknown brand.

What I see happening at Doxa parallels what I have seen happen many times over my career in business. A (typically small) business owner decides they could dramatically increase their sales simply by hiring a bunch more sales people (because more sales people equals more sales, right?). But, even with great sales training, we know that at least half of those new sales people will fail. 

My hypothesis is we'll see the same thing here. A certain percentage of AD's will fail to sell Doxa watches. Marketing can influence the percentage, but economic conditions, etc. will also play a role.

The question is, how will Doxa deal with this eventuality? Can they afford to buy back all the unsold stock? Will they turn a blind eye to grey market sales? Will they allow AD's to run sales and let the market set the price?

We shall see.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

Ryeguy said:


> With no disrespect, Doxa is a niche brand that would have happily plugged along as a forum favorite if left alone. Outside the forum environment, I believe Doxa is an unknown brand.


I have yet to meet anyone in 18 months that has gone "Oh you have a Doxa!". Plenty of "What's that?" but when they find it's not a Rolex or a brand they have heard of, they lose interest.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

daglesj said:


> I have yet to meet anyone in 18 months that has gone "Oh you have a Doxa!". Plenty of "What's that?" but when they find it's not a Rolex or a brand they have heard of, they lose interest.


Yes, that is exactly the headwind Doxa is going to be fighting. I suspect that initial flash of initial interest will be even more quickly dulled when they see the price tag. 

The U.K. has 11 AD locations. I'm sure the little shop in Coventry is lovely, but I just can't see them driving a lot of sales. 

Just looking at their website (which is pretty nice, actually) I don't see Doxa even being pushed as a "featured brand". It is Hamilton, TAG Heuer, etc.


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## mattcantwin (Aug 17, 2007)

daglesj said:


> I have yet to meet anyone in 18 months that has gone "Oh you have a Doxa!". Plenty of "What's that?" but when they find it's not a Rolex or a brand they have heard of, they lose interest.


I've never given much value to comments others have made about my watches; 

I only aim to please myself.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I just saw this article on Hodinkee Buying, Selling, & Collecting: Understanding The New Middle Class Of Watchmaking regarding the "middle class" of watches which speaks to my point earlier regarding the challenges I think Doxa will face in their efforts to become more AD-centric in their distribution model.

The article makes some very interesting points and observations, but the most major point (in my mind) was the omission of Doxa as a brand altogether.


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> I will try to address these points one by one:


I admire your patience…


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## paysdoufs (Dec 10, 2020)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> "Better still, many of the forum posts involved people actually using their watch whilst diving rather than indoors questioning if it was safe to wash their hands whilst wearing their new Rolex Submariner or Sea-Dweller.
> Moving to the retail AD approach along with an online attitude of ‘telling’ customers what to do - ‘if you buy from Joma you won’t have a guarantee and we know who you are from our tracking system’ seems to slowly break this customer relationship down still further. You can now walk into an AD and buy a Doxa again breaking down the direct relationship."
> 
> Agreed. That is the natural order of things. I can't just call up Rolex. I enjoy watching Doxa ascend.


In Rolex's defense: You CAN actually walk into their Geneva HQ with your problem and explain it to the permanent service desk. They take care of quick services on the spot (Tudor included).

In Doxa’s defense: You CAN contact them and set up a meeting at public events, such as a the Geneva Watch Days. But creating hands-on exposure through ADs is obviously the much more logical way fwd for them.

If I’m being completely honest: I wonder (mainly because of this thread) wether for many forumista from the US the fact that Doxa was perceived as a bit of a US success story and has now „re-swissified“ itself is not contributing to their negative attitude (?)


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

paysdoufs said:


> In Rolex's defense: You CAN actually walk into their Geneva HQ with your problem and explain it to the permanent service desk. They take care of quick services on the spot (Tudor included).
> 
> In Doxa’s defense: You CAN contact them and set up a meeting at public events, such as a the Geneva Watch Days. But creating hands-on exposure through ADs is obviously the much more logical way.
> 
> If I’m being completely honest: I wonder (mainly because of this thread) wether for many forumista from the US the fact that Doxa was perceived as a bit of a US success story and has now „re-swissified“ itself is not contributing to their negative attitude (?)


Yeah.... the negative attitude towards the brands short comings is ONLY from the US....


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

paysdoufs said:


> I admire your patience…


I've given up at this point, lol.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

paysdoufs said:


> In Rolex's defense: You CAN actually walk into their Geneva HQ with your problem and explain it to the permanent service desk. They take care of quick services on the spot (Tudor included).
> 
> In Doxa’s defense: You CAN contact them and set up a meeting at public events, such as a the Geneva Watch Days. But creating hands-on exposure through ADs is obviously the much more logical way.
> 
> If I’m being completely honest: I wonder (mainly because of this thread) wether for many forumista from the US the fact that Doxa was perceived as a bit of a US success story and has now „re-swissified“ itself is not contributing to their negative attitude (?)


After messing with a set of screwbars all day to put an Isofrane on my 1500T, I thought I might order an extra set of bars just to play it safe. I emailed Doxa and they invoiced me right away. I honestly have no idea what people expect. 

I think a lot of the negativity stems from customers mostly in the USA feeling like they don't have first hand participation anymore. Doxa has moved away from endless special editions largely associated with the Cussler books. It's a Swiss company again and for whatever reason managment has decided to break with that piece of its history. I'm ok with that. The only thing I miss is the tube packaging.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

FWIW, I not wish to be interpreted as disrespecting the brand and I am far enough removed to not really care about any previous "USA success" or perceived "re-Swiss-ification".

For me, it is more of an academic business study of how to transition a brand from a "web only" business model to a hybrid web and AD model and still maintain control over pricing.

Sinn seems to have navigated that process fairly well (I have never seen a Sinn product in a grey market dealer). Maybe Doxa will have equal success?


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## mikkolopez (Jul 20, 2006)

I wish they’d appoint a Philippines dealer. The previous dealer just stopped.

There’s a lot of interest here but no source nor place to fit one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

mikkolopez said:


> I wish they’d appoint a Philippines dealer. The previous dealer just stopped.
> 
> There’s a lot of interest here but no source nor place to fit one.
> 
> ...


How recently did they stop?

Out of curiosity, how did they handle dropping the brand? I'm just curious whether they returned the unsold stock to Doxa or ran a local sale (against brand management wishes).

Again, my hypothesis this situation is probably how Joma initially got a lead on the stock for their sale.


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## wellman70 (Dec 27, 2015)

Well Well Well 

Jomashop at it again. Doxa's are back up on their site right now. 300T is a generous 10% off now...

Only ship in 2-3 weeks!!!


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

wellman70 said:


> Well Well Well
> 
> Jomashop at it again. Doxa's are back up on their site right now. 300T is a generous 10% off now...
> 
> Only ship in 2-3 weeks!!!


Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…


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## Seikonut1967 (Feb 22, 2020)

😂😂😂😂


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

What happens when you mix two Yogi Berra sayings?

1. "Always go to other people's funerals, otherwise they won't come to yours."
2. "It's like déjà vu all over again"

Doxa Sale!!!!


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Several White Pearl are on sale. Already available (as if!) to a gray???? It's brand new!


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

Sixty-five variants on sale. Where are they getting those?

I'm so excited--new life in one of the best-ever WUS threads!


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Another AD bites the dust. I wonder how many Joma has of each model. 

Just to add, a $100 discount is hardly worth losing the warranty in my opinion. 

I’m sure JomaShop realized they under-priced the watches the last time and are now trying to correct their mistake (although I think they have now over-corrected). 

If nothing else, it makes you see how obscure the brand is as Joma doesn’t know how to price them.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

daglesj said:


> I have yet to meet anyone in 18 months that has gone "Oh you have a Doxa!". Plenty of "What's that?" but when they find it's not a Rolex or a brand they have heard of, they lose interest.


I went several years wearing almost daily one of my Doxa's, mainly the Shark. Prior and since that period, I wore one frequently in rotation. I can't recall meeting anyone who recognized the brand. Some did notice it and comment. The most common comment was "is that a Seiko?". I usually replied "yes". There were a few passive aggressive "that looks like something Jaque Cousteau would have worn". One nice thing on that particular comment is, Doxa comes with a great comeback line: "well, he actual did". Usually shuts them up.


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## nepatriot (Oct 1, 2010)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> After messing with a set of screwbars all day to put an Isofrane on my 1500T, I thought I might order an extra set of bars just to play it safe. I emailed Doxa and they invoiced me right away. I honestly have no idea what people expect.
> 
> I think a lot of the negativity stems from customers mostly in the USA feeling like they don't have first hand participation anymore. Doxa has moved away from endless special editions largely associated with the Cussler books. It's a Swiss company again and for whatever reason managment has decided to break with that piece of its history. I'm ok with that. The only thing I miss is the tube packaging.


I think the negativity on their CS of prior years, having experienced it myself, was that is was not very good. Some people had great experiences; others not so much. In MHO, there was little "in between" the extremes; the "bad" was mostly self inflicted on themselves. 

I have had experience with the new Doxa CS on a few occasions, and would say they are very competent on the usual basics, and "meet expectations" on the unusual. Also would say they have improved incrementally each year since they restructured. Because of the Swiss connection, I'd recommend with Doxa being as simple and clear as possible with what you want, just facts, no emotion or judgement. My take is they really want to help. 

I would not let stories from the past influence my perception of the new Doxa, as far as customer service.


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## Harry447 (9 mo ago)

Tempted, but figure they'll cancel this sale too.


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## drmdwebb (Apr 17, 2020)

10 percent is not enough. Better to buy pre-owned in good shape.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Well... I do want a white pearl 600T with the ceramic insert. Between the 10% off, the coupon of $50.00 off for orders over $1200.00, and then add tax, it ends up a savings of just over $200.00... not really much... but not a savings you'd see anywhere else. BTW- They have the retail listed incorrectly on this model.

Eff it..... I'll wait 2-3 week before waiting 5 weeks... before 3 months for them not to charge me and cancel my order...Again

I really just miss most of you guys (Not all  if I'm honest)...


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## Harry447 (9 mo ago)

I added the extra $50 coupon. Live in a no tax state. Still a bit more than I wanted to spend. Tried calling WOS to see if they would discount and they wouldn't come off MSRP. Let see if jomashop actually delivers this time.


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## daglesj (Jan 5, 2020)

nepatriot said:


> I went several years wearing almost daily one of my Doxa's, mainly the Shark. Prior and since that period, I wore one frequently in rotation. I can't recall meeting anyone who recognized the brand. Some did notice it and comment. The most common comment was "is that a Seiko?". I usually replied "yes". There were a few passive aggressive "that looks like something Jaque Cousteau would have worn". One nice thing on that particular comment is, Doxa comes with a great comeback line: "well, he actual did". Usually shuts them up.


I was in a hotel near Morpeth in the North of England a couple of days ago and the barman was wearing a black Seiko Arnie. I remarked at it and said I had one too. He said he did have a Mk1 Arnie back in the day that he used to dive with (he was an Aussie) but it finally gave up a few years ago, hence the MK2. I showed him my Doxa but it was lost on him.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

drmdwebb said:


> 10 percent is not enough. Better to buy pre-owned in good shape.


This is about as worthless as the 8-12% off you get on Jomashop Cartiers. Not at all worth it to lose the warranty.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> This is about as worthless as the 8-12% off you get on Jomashop Cartiers. Not at all worth it to lose the warranty.


100% agree. 

I got a $100 off coupon from WoS when I signed up for their news letter. That is a better deal than Joma.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> 100% agree.
> 
> I got a $100 off coupon from WoS when I signed up for their news letter. That is a better deal than Joma.


I don't know... The WP 600T was listed incorrectly...it was marked 100.00 lower that it should have been.. then10% off.. then $50.00 off that since it was over $1200.00 gave me $211.00 in savings after TAX... puts it at about 20% off. I'll take it if it EVER ships. But like before... Nothing really invested.. so if it comes to fruition, then its hovering around used values and since I seem to be the only person who likes the WP line, the chances of getting a preowned are pretty slim. lol

I'll call tomorrow and poke some fun at them having Doxa on the site again where they will likely offer me free next day air shipping (step number one for all customer service agents)... and I'll be in good shape...*IF"....


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> I don't know... The WP 600T was listed incorrectly...it was marked 100.00 lower that it should have been.. then10% off.. then $50.00 off that since it was over $1200.00 gave me $211.00 in savings after TAX... puts it at about 20% off. I'll take it if it EVER ships. But like before... Nothing really invested.. so if it comes to fruition, then its hovering around used values and since I seem to be the only person who likes the WP line, the chances of getting a preowned are pretty slim. lol
> 
> I'll call tomorrow and poke some fun at them having Doxa on the site again where they will likely offer me free next day air shipping (step number one for all customer service agents)... and I'll be in good shape...*IF"....


You are correct that $211 off is more of a discount than the WoS $100 off coupon.

My point is the extra $100 isn’t worth losing the warranty. The original discount of $500 off was enough to assume the risk. The current discount seems like not enough. 

Joma, to me, is kind of binary. You need to inspect your new watch super carefully upon arrival, then either keep it or return it for refund. There really is no middle ground.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> You are correct that $211 off is more of a discount than the WoS $100 off coupon.
> 
> My point is the extra $100 isn’t worth losing the warranty. The original discount of $500 off was enough to assume the risk. The current discount seems like not enough.
> 
> Joma, to me, is kind of binary. You need to inspect your new watch super carefully upon arrival, then either keep it or return it for refund. There really is no middle ground.


I think I mentioned it before... Nobody buys at Joma for any reason other than price, right?

-Service is dog shi*t
-Communication is awful and as we've seen, horribly inconsistent.
-Orders never ship fast... You might get free next day shipping but often it takes 3 days for them to ship it.. if its in stock.

That said, I've bought a number of times over the years and had only one DOA and it was taken care of. I'm in no hurry for a 600T and the $211.00 off is better than I'll ever see anywhere else. I'm going to add it at some point to my box anyway so there's no risk in processing that order with he 1% chance its fulfilled.

I'd never buy anything from them with an in-house complication, but I buy watches knowing I have the safety net of an old school watchmaker who will service a base Swiss movement for me for $35.00 in 7-10 days depending on his golf league. 

My new favorite addition to their web page "Orders usually ship in 2-3 weeks"... "Usually"? Based on what exactly? The previous experience selling Doxa? Remember when they didn't say "usually"?

Eff it... this thread is fun... its kinda like those groups who meet every week to hunt Bigfoot...


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

^^^^ Ha!, so true! 

I've got to think they (JomaShop) has a more confirmed commitment to getting stock this time. I mean it's a "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" kind of thing. 

I just can't help thinking about what is going though the Joma pricing team's mind as they try to set their pricing strategy.

It's either:
A) we aren't sure we'll actually get the stock again this time, so we'll minimally discount so we don't get flooded with orders we'll later have to cancel

or 

B) we priced these too low last time so let's try to make a bit more money on these watches and see where it goes

I guess there is also an option "C", being Joma's cost for the watches have gone up, so they must sell with the minimal discount in order to make their margin.

This last theory works if the AD supplying the watches to Joma maybe wants to remain an AD for Doxa. It isn't a "fire sale" to dump stock at zero gain (or even a slight loss), but rather an opportunity to generate some revenue quickly.

That said, Doxa management claimed earlier they were tracking watch serial numbers sent to various AD's. All Doxa would have to do is simply place an order to Joma using an employee account and trace the serial number back to the offending AD and cancel their contract.

Joma has been around for a long time and they are anything but dumb. My money is on option "B". They are trying to figure out what the market will bear for these watches. They have discovered $1,300 was too low, and I think they'll discover that $1,700 is too high. 

I'm betting Joma will price adjust their Doxa's just as they do with other products they carry (for example, I bought a pair of Costa sun glasses from them for $90 and I've seen the exact same glasses on their site for as high as $160 - they price adjust all the time).


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Never Pay Retail


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

Ryeguy said:


> 100% agree.
> 
> I got a $100 off coupon from WoS when I signed up for their news letter. That is a better deal than Joma.


Mayors is running the same deal. I'm in the market for an IWC and really struggling with buying off of the heavily discounted grey market (25-30%ish) versus $100.00 at Mayors with the new IWC 8 year warranty.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> Mayors is running the same deal. I'm in the market for an IWC and really struggling with buying off of the heavily discounted grey market (25-30%ish) versus $100.00 at Mayors with the new IWC 8 year warranty.


Mayors and WoS are the same company.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> Mayors is running the same deal. I'm in the market for an IWC and really struggling with buying off of the heavily discounted grey market (25-30%ish) versus $100.00 at Mayors with the new IWC 8 year warranty.


With an in-house calibre, I tend to want to buy direct and value the warranty. I don't think independent watchmakers have access to parts, so you probably must have it serviced at IWC. Plus, I seem to remember some previous issues with IWC movements which may be why they have offered the 8 year warranty. 

I guess the question I would be asking myself (and you are probably struggling with yourself) would be, is the discount savings enough to pay for a movement service at IWC rates? I would budget at least $600 for an IWC service, so that would be my initial point for even considering a grey market deal. 

The other question I would have is whether the IWC 8 year warranty is transferable. I would think that a transferable warranty would add value in the event you ever had to sell the watch. 

I'm willing to take more of a risk with a brand using commonly / easily sourced movements. I've heard Sellita will not provide movement parts to independent watchmakers, but the entire movement itself is relatively inexpensive and readily available, so worse case scenario is to simply swap the entire movement out and replace it with a new one.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> With an in-house calibre, I tend to want to buy direct and value the warranty. I don't think independent watchmakers have access to parts, so you probably must have it serviced at IWC. Plus, I seem to remember some previous issues with IWC movements which may be why they have offered the 8 year warranty.
> 
> I guess the question I would be asking myself (and you are probably struggling with yourself) would be, is the discount savings enough to pay for a movement service at IWC rates? I would budget at least $600 for an IWC service, so that would be my initial point for even considering a grey market deal.
> 
> ...


Yeah... there's always an Invicta on eBay with a perfectly usable Sellita heart 

Thats been my M.O. for Joma purchases sine day one-only buy base movement pieces. I had a buddy buy a Breitling Chronograph that had issues and getting it repaired turned into a 13 month headache just to save like $500.00.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Some times you can’t go back.

The Joma Doxa Sale was like the one-night stand with a casual friend where you’d been at it all night rounding the bases but in the wee hours of the morning just before the sun comes up and you finally go for home plate, instead you both fell asleep on the couch. Then you woke up just in time to get to work and you remember where you are what happened and what didn’t happen and you’re both kinda awkward and trying to laugh it off and you gather yourself up and wander out the door.

Sure, it was fun while it lasted, and you’re still friends, but you know it’s never going to happen.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

^^^ Just wait until Joma has the 300T for $1,300 again. 

Like seeing that same girl at the bar during last call, you‘ll be back!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

In this weeks meeting of the Bigfoot hunters club, I'd like to point out that Joma seemingly believe that they have a definitive number of specific units coming in... as they did before. Once I committed to the 600T WP with the ceramic insert, it disappeared from the site.

Is this the footprint of an amateur with a foot shaped wood cut out in the mud deliberately trying to deceive or a real bigfoot footprint? The mystery of Joma business practices will always elude us.


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

So, during some morning web browsing, I happened to come across this.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 said:


> So, during some morning web browsing, I happened to come across this.
> 
> View attachment 16909985


but after the last goat-rodeo, will anyone believe Jomashop will deliver? 

I'm starting to believe Jomashop had the watches, but after all the demand last time, they realized they discounted them too much, so they are now re-listed the watches at a lesser discount -- believing the demand will still be there.


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

valerian839 said:


> but after the last goat-rodeo, will anyone believe Jomashop will deliver?
> 
> I'm starting to believe Jomashop had the watches, but after all the demand last time, they realized they discounted them too much, so they are now re-listed the watches at a lesser discount -- believing the demand will still be there.


I don't think they have them yet, website says 2-3 weeks. I've aquired what I've wanted on the markplace here, slightly used and still under warranty (for what thats worth), for better than 26 percent off. After the $5 non-combinable coupon (while funny) was a huge slap in the face. I'm going to have a real hard time buying anything from Jomashop in the future.


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Jomashop needs to do better than 10%. I’m thinking 26%.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

They have been back up for about two weeks and sold through the allocation of a number of SKUs.. of course without actually shipping one watch yet 





DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 said:


> So, during some morning web browsing, I happened to come across this.
> 
> View attachment 16909985


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

I bought last time around.. Waited a few months. and cancelled when they could give no idea as to when or if they would ever come in. I would not go that route again.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Happy 4th "Ships in 1-2 Weeks" Anniversary masochists!!


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## CuriosExplorer22 (Jan 3, 2022)

STARSTELLA said:


> Happy 4th "Ships in 1-2 Weeks" Anniversary masochists!!


 I think that jomashop actually has them in stock. If you look at jomas instagram account (Jomashop.com (@jomashop) • Instagram photos and videos) you see in the instagram stories that the watches are in their warehouse


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

CuriosExplorer22 said:


> I think that jomashop actually has them in stock. If you look at jomas instagram account (Jomashop.com (@jomashop) • Instagram photos and videos) you see in the instagram stories that the watches are in their warehouse


You can get $100.00 off and the factory warranty at Mayors. 10% isn't worth it.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> You can get $100.00 off and the factory warranty at Mayors. 10% isn't worth it.


10%-$50.00 to $100.00 depending on the coupon and as of last week, a bunch were priced incorrectly on the low side... My 600 was a smidge over 20% off after the addition of TAX...

The $100.00 Mayors offers won't even cover the TAX most of us pay... if thats you angle, you might as well buy direct from Doxa USA who don't charge TAX...Lets all be honest... Doxa's warranty has been questioned from time to time...not a buying point! 

Besides... without the chance that these ACTUALLY ship.. or seeing Bigfoot... UFOs.. Old Nessy... what would we talk about in this thread?


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

CuriosExplorer22 said:


> I think that jomashop actually has them in stock. If you look at jomas instagram account (Jomashop.com (@jomashop) • Instagram photos and videos) you see in the instagram stories that the watches are in their warehouse


they do indeed have some in stock... some say "in stock", some "5-7 days" and others "1-2 weeks".... interesting...


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Canceled our orders then raised the price. What a terrible company.


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> Canceled our orders then raised the price. What a terrible company.


Agreed.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

BobMartian said:


> Canceled our orders then raised the price. What a terrible company.


I was thinking the same thing. They canceled my orders around the end of July and 60 days later they magically got the expected stock. 

I remain of the opinion their current discount isn’t worth doing business with JomaShop. I’d rather buy from WoS with a warranty. 

I hope JomaShop sits on that Doxa stock for quite a while. 

Heck, if I where Doxa, I’d authorize a 15% off sale (with a spiff to the AD’s to allow them to maintain their margins) just to undermine JomaShop.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BobMartian said:


> Canceled our orders then raised the price. What a terrible company.





Ryeguy said:


> I was thinking the same thing. They canceled my orders around the end of July and 60 days later they magically got the expected stock.
> 
> I remain of the opinion their current discount isn’t worth doing business with JomaShop. I’d rather buy from WoS with a warranty.
> 
> ...


That would be a logical move, but Doxa won't do anything like that. A group of us called both WOS and Doxa direct and proposed a group buy with a minimum of 50 people and they had zero interests. Clearly they don't need to sell more watches, add new customers or feel it necessary to make any moves related to Jomashop even though they came out of the woodwork to make a post NOT to buy these gray market watches. Presumably, their sales were never effected and inventory levels were never at the point of surplus.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Checking in. Glad to see this thread thriving still. Love it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

usc1 said:


> Checking in. Glad to see this thread thriving still. Love it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup, we got your schadenfreude right here.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

BigBluefish said:


> Yup, we got your schadenfreude right here.


I had high hopes from the original sale. I talked myself into waiting through the second “it’ll be 2 weeks.” Had enough and cancelled. 

I always wondered if the sales would’ve gone through if it was on the down low (i.e. not posted).  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

usc1 said:


> I had high hopes from the original sale. I talked myself into waiting through the second “it’ll be 2 weeks.” Had enough and cancelled.
> 
> I always wondered if the sales would’ve gone through if it was on the down low (i.e. not posted).
> 
> ...


I wondered that too... but according to some people here Doxa pays no attention to this group...


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

I'm so mad about the way Jomo has treated us I am vowing to never buy from them again.

Idiots don't deserve my money.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Well... I do want a white pearl 600T with the ceramic insert. Between the 10% off, the coupon of $50.00 off for orders over $1200.00, and then add tax, it ends up a savings of just over $200.00... not really much... but not a savings you'd see anywhere else. BTW- They have the retail listed incorrectly on this model.
> 
> Eff it..... I'll wait 2-3 week before waiting 5 weeks... before 3 months for them not to charge me and cancel my order...Again
> 
> I really just miss most of you guys (Not all  if I'm honest)...


Any word on your 600T?

You ordered it around September 10th, so it has been about 2 weeks.

Just curious if anyone is actually getting a watch this time around.


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## Harry447 (9 mo ago)

Ryeguy said:


> Any word on your 600T?
> 
> You ordered it around September 10th, so it has been about 2 weeks.
> 
> Just curious if anyone is actually getting a watch this time around.





Ryeguy said:


> Any word on your 600T?
> 
> You ordered it around September 10th, so it has been about 2 weeks.
> 
> Just curious if anyone is actually getting a watch this time around.


I ordered the 300t aqua, shipped yesterday. Enroute for delivery today.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Any word on your 600T?
> 
> You ordered it around September 10th, so it has been about 2 weeks.
> 
> Just curious if anyone is actually getting a watch this time around.


Naturally its in the last batch to arrive. It said 1-2 weeks up until last Monday... then it just said "out of stock".... and now its "Ships in 5-7 days". Naturally I called to make sure that had the chance to give me the latest and greatest false info... and I was told (in an almost stern tone) "YES Kevin, I am SURE it will ship the 1st week of October"... The voice was slightly familiar 

Its a big assumption on how their network functions.. but if its like my company, all vendors have to supply "ASNs" on all orders. This stands for Advanced Shipping Notifications... Among other things, this and inventory feeds are what is used for almost all E-commerce pages that offer shipping ETAs on out of stock products. In general, the ASN provides the dates shipping, Quantities and tracking info. "ASSUMING".. with the volume they are doing, they have some system in place that works like this... or its Joma and its a crapshoot of a guess wrapped in a paradox...


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Any word on your 600T?
> 
> You ordered it around September 10th, so it has been about 2 weeks.
> 
> Just curious if anyone is actually getting a watch this time around.


My 600T WP shipped today... or.. well... Joma shipped me something today


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> My 600T WP shipped today... or.. well... Joma shipped me something today


Finally something ships! 🙌


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

Harry447 said:


> I ordered the 300t aqua, shipped yesterday. Enroute for delivery today.


how did it arrive?


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

I hope you get the watch in great condition and working order!

As an aside, I was reminded of a case about ten years ago between Omega and Costco that is similar to this Doxa versus JomaShop situation. Costco was buying Omega watches from dealers in other regions where the pricing was lower, then reselling them in the United States at prices below Omega MSRP (while still making a profit). 

Omega sued Costco and the case went all the way to the Supreme Court where it was deadlocked {{meta.fullTitle}}

This deadlock means no precedent was set and any subsequent lawsuit by other parties would have to go through the entire process again. 

Costco’s defense was the concept of “first sale”, meaning once I sell my product to you, I no longer have authority to tell you who you may resell the product to. 

I think this legal concept is what allows JomaShop to be largely protected from brands trying to stop them from selling their products. 

Just for hypothetical purposes, I bet Doxa could best protect themselves from this in the future if, instead of selling watches to AD’s to be resold, they allowed the AD’s to sell Doxa watches on a ”consignment” basis. Doxa could then control who the watches were sold to and ensure they never again went on the gray market.

The negative is Doxa would not see the bulk sale revenue of AD’s making inventory stock orders. 

I guess legally you simply cannot have your cake and eat it too.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Thats a valid argument. I'm sure similar cases for multiple products over the last decade and 3rd party reselling sites like Amazon, Ebay, Walmart, Newegg... etc have changed the face of retail forever. I look at vendor agreements and MAP programs all day long and the added stipulations for reselling a brands products continually gain more line items. Its no longer about just "Minimum Advertised Pricing" anymore... 10 years ago, a brand didn't have to protect intellectual properties and forbid sales on these 3rd party sites where the sellers give up control of selling practices.

If Doxa wanted this type of control, they would add these terms into their dealer agreement, pay an employee to monitor online sales, then impliment some sort of infraction system before a seller is cut off from the dealer network. It takes time and money.

I've seen vendors nulify any and all warranties if a product was not bought from an authorized reseller as Doxa attempted to do with their reactionary post here, however that takes a big assumption that ONLY buyers of Joma Doxa are here... they would really need to put something official on their page and actually patrol the situation..buy and track product via serial numbers.. Its a massive ask. 

I did see Joma is offering a number of Doxa pieces through their eBay store. To me that says they have some inventory and are confidant the well is far from dry... unless its a smash and grab and they just want to get out from under what they have asap. The 4% discount on eBay doesn't say that though 

My 600T is supposed to be delivered tomorrow per Fed Ex.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

bobs.divers said:


> Finally something ships! 🙌


errr... That is... Joma sent me a tracking number but here we are 48 hours later... supposedly 12 hours before the estimated time of delivery... Fed Ex has not received the package yet... What do they say about leopards and spots?


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## wellman70 (Dec 27, 2015)

Doxa’s gone from the Jomashop site…again


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## debussychopin (Feb 16, 2018)

Just saw this thread but I knew of jomashop selling doxa on the real cheap from months ago. I didn't pull the trigger because I'm not interested in doxa but fwiw I have purchased from joma when they state ships in 3-5 weeks and they always follow suit. And it is a genuine, bona fide, brand new watch. I've seen other brands that do pop up on joma occasionally that lists them at really good prices. I peruse joma like the back of my hand. 
They also carry laco sometimes you just have to search for it; joma won't announce or advert any particular product or sale.


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## leed24 (May 16, 2011)

I bought a 600T - Orange Dial from Jomashop and according to tracking it is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I suppose we will see if the correct piece shows up. I am not going to lie, I have been looking forward to it !


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

My tracking finally updated and my 600T is supposed to be delivered on Saturday....


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

wellman70 said:


> Doxa’s gone from the Jomashop site…again


Wow - that is really weird! I’m getting that page of perfume again when I search for the brand. This is such an odd situation.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Wow - that is really weird! I’m getting that page of perfume again when I search for the brand. This is such an odd situation.


wow... super purge level... I can see the thumbnail pic in my purchase history but I can't click on it or even use the tracking link from it on my order.. I have to manually track it on Fed Ex's site from the number in my email.

Maybe it really was a smash and grab sale limted to a small number of actual pieces from the whole product line.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)

STARSTELLA said:


> wow... super purge level... I can see the thumbnail pic in my purchase history but I can't click on it or even use the tracking link from it on my order.. I have to manually track it on Fed Ex's site from the number in my email.
> 
> Maybe it really was a smash and grab sale limted to a small number of actual pieces from the whole product line.


Are you telling us you actually have a Doxa on it's way to you from the sale? I'd don't believe you, I'll need to see pics when it arrives in the Joma packaging


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

If you search now, you get one lonely turquoise 300T on rubber for $1,665 (or about $200 off list). 

I‘m still shaking my head at this. I cannot understand how a company who has been doing this gray / discount market game as long as Joma has to have messed this Doxa sale up twice. It is really incomprehensible how they went from “we have every model in stock” to “we have nothing in stock” in a day. I’m guessing they were lied to by whoever sold them the stock and only received a couple watches out of the promised shipment. 

I will literally fall off my chair laughing if we find out Doxa management is actually behind this, pretending to be an AD with stock to sell, then watching Joma trip all over themselves when they repeatedly pull out the rug. Heck, I might even buy a watch direct from them just as a congratulatory gesture as I admire the Machiavellian strategy to discredit the gray market. 

I know a few of you have made purchases and I truly hope you get your watches. For me, however, unless they are really fire-sale priced, I won’t trust Joma with a Doxa purchase. I HIGHLY encourage those who bought a Doxa from Joma to thoroughly inspect the watch prior to doing anything that would effect your ability to return it. I am really wondering what Joma is actually selling.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Its a full on comedy of errors... of course like a kid on Christmas morning (aka Fed Ex delivery day) .. as I drink my morning coffee I open the FED EX tracking... "Delivery Postponed" until Monday... at 2:37 this morning an "unreadable Barcode label" was replaced whose result is what looks like a 12 hour layover in the lovely city of Grove City, Ohio... roughly 2 hours away from me...


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## leed24 (May 16, 2011)

Just got my 600T from Jomashop !

they actually came through 👍


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

well no sh*t......


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

The fabled Jomashop unicorn Doxas in the house. Well done lads. The 82 page thread comes good 😀


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

pretty late in the season for this combo... but the suns out... I'll sport it on the white helm FKM for a couple days..


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

leed24 said:


> Just got my 600T from Jomashop !
> 
> they actually came through 👍


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)




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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Congratulations! I wasn’t sure we would ever see this day!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Congratulations! I wasn’t sure we would ever see this day!


NOOOOOoooo Kidding. The warranty card is even stamped from the authorized reseller...from the Middle East.


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## bobs.divers (Nov 16, 2020)

STARSTELLA said:


> NOOOOOoooo Kidding. The warranty card is even stamped from the authorized reseller...from the Middle East.


This is awesome! Congrats on your new piece, and under manufacturer’s warranty!


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## Flyingdoctor (Feb 11, 2006)

Who is the reseller? Did you check to see if they still sell Doxas?



STARSTELLA said:


> NOOOOOoooo Kidding. The warranty card is even stamped from the authorized reseller...from the Middle East.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Flyingdoctor said:


> Who is the reseller? Did you check to see if they still sell Doxas?


Based on their webpage, yes... They're a pretty high end reseller. I say besides Titoni, Nomos and Luminox, Doxa might be one of the cheapest brands they sell.. Patek, VC, AP, JLC, Hublot...etc..etc..


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Based on their webpage, yes... They're a pretty high end reseller. I say besides Titoni, Nomos and Luminox, Doxa might be one of the cheapest brands they sell.. Patek, VC, AP, JLC, Hublot...etc..etc..


Interesting.

Assuming (based upon JomaShop pulling the Doxa watches off their site) this AD is only supplying watches to the gray market in small numbers, I cannot see how Doxa management could ever figure out you didn't actually purchase the watch from the AD directly. You could probably send that watch back to Doxa if needed for warranty work.

The real question is whether Doxa management actually purchased a watch from JomaShop and now knows who the AD is and will they end their business relationship with them.


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## BigBluefish (Aug 13, 2009)

Very happy for you guys who hung in there / gave it another shot.


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## Watchout63 (Mar 1, 2021)




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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

One lonely Aquamarine 300T on the strap popped up on the Joma site again... 10% off plus $50.00 off anything over a grand isn't terrible....If you love to live dangerously


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## BobMartian (Sep 23, 2011)

Personally, I don’t care what discount Jomashop offers. I’ll never purchase from the website again.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

BobMartian said:


> Personally, I don’t care what discount Jomashop offers. I’ll never purchase from the website again.


You have no sense of adventure


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

BobMartian said:


> Personally, I don’t care what discount Jomashop offers. I’ll never purchase from the website again.


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## WRXtranceformed (Nov 16, 2014)

I'd still be in the game if Joma hadn't cancelled my order so that they could offer the watches they got at a nominal discount instead. Scummy ass business imo


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## DanielWellingtonEsEl#1 (Nov 2, 2021)

The $5.00 coupon was a huge slap in the face. #Jomagate2022NeverForget

Although recently I slipped and made a trade with Jomashop for slightly used Aqua Terra. I must say the transaction went very well.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

Well, all good things must come to an end.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

usc1 said:


> Well, all good things must come to an end.


Well, our buddy Starstella got a 600T out of it, so that is good.

He is actually the only one I know of who definitively received one. IIRC, someone else on here said they had ordered one from Joma, but I don't recall a follow-up note stating receipt.

I'm fairly active on 2 watch forums haven't heard of anyone else getting a Doxa from Joma, so I am kind of wondering how many watches they actually sold.

I would give it a go again if I could get my original (now since canceled by Joma) sales price of $1300 for the 300.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Well, our buddy Starstella got a 600T out of it, so that is good.
> 
> He is actually the only one I know of who definitively received one. IIRC, someone else on here said they had ordered one from Joma, but I don't recall a follow-up note stating receipt.
> 
> ...


Two weeks on its even still working


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Two weeks on its even still working


Well, you've made it past the Jomashop warranty period!!! (I'm kidding, of course)

What is funny is when I search on Joma for Doxa all I get is the perfume page, but on their nearly constant spam emails, that lonely turquoise 300 has been suggested. If I click the email, I can add the 300 to my cart.

It makes me wonder what is going on with their website.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Yeah.. thats the one that popped back up after they took them all down again...my guess is a return?


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## leed24 (May 16, 2011)

I don’t know how many pages back, but I posted a picture showing the 600T Orange dial I received 👍


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> You have no sense of adventure


I think it's more like, "you have a lot of self respect". 😄


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ticktocker said:


> I think it's more like, "you have a lot of self respect". 😄


if you're a little child who needs immediate gratification, then the Joma sale wasn't for you. I have self respect..I'm even an arrogant d*ck in many cases and I'm quite happy with the White Pearl 600T that I got for over 20% off retail from Joma.

Wearing it now in fact... keeps the same quality of time as the pieces I've paid full retail for. weird..


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> if you're a little child who needs immediate gratification, then the Joma sale wasn't for you. I have self respect..I'm even an arrogant d*ck in many cases and I'm quite happy with the White Pearl 600T that I got for over 20% off retail from Joma.
> 
> Wearing it now in fact... keeps the same quality of time as the pieces I've paid full retail for. weird..


Yeah..... that's what this hilarious fiasco was all about. Patience, self respect and not wanting immediate gratification. 😂 
It had nothing to do with being frantically obsessed and a bit of luck. 😂. It only worked for stable, mature, adults that don't expect immediate gratification. 🙄🤣 Everyone else was just a child that threw a fit because Joma didn't deliver.


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

On Nov 1st, I ordered a DOXA Sub 200T yellow from the AD here in Vegas. Watches of Switzerland in the Wynn. I received it on the Nov 8. Excellent shopping experience, a little swag included, along with cappuccino and their watchmaker sized the bracelet and buffed it out, removing all the glue from the stickers. On the bracelet, it fit my big wrist perfectly!

As an a full AD, I get a generous return policy and a more generous exchange policy.

I paid full price, but I got the watch without any issue and they were glad to get my business.

I highly recommend the face to face AD experience.


Here is the quick 15 sec short at the AD.
DOXA 200T short


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ticktocker said:


> Yeah..... that's what this hilarious fiasco was all about. Patience, self respect and not wanting immediate gratification. 😂
> It had nothing to do with being frantically obsessed and a bit of luck. 😂. It only worked for stable, mature, adults that don't expect immediate gratification. 🙄🤣 Everyone else was just a child that threw a fit because Joma didn't deliver.


I guess to me it didn't really matter because I was going to buy the 600 anyway, they didn't charge my card until it was in hand and ready to ship, so it didn't seem like self respect had any relevance. I agreed to buy a product I was going to buy anyway at a lesser price if it ever came in... I didn't need it, I wanted it. I'm almost 50 years old now.. a month? two months? 4 months wait... what's it matter? Like many of us, I have a box of watches that all keep time so why set a "deadline" or a line in that sand where suddenly I'm lacking in self respect by waiting? lol

This whole episode made me some new pals and I bought 2 other Doxas, a Synchron Military and a Super Seawolf while this thread was going on...worth every minute of the wait.


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## time-lord (Jun 29, 2016)

Nada showing


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

time-lord said:


> Nada showing


oh yeah... this ended a long time ago... this is just pages of aftermath discussion...


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## Monkeynuts (Dec 23, 2012)

edit


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

JimBianchi said:


> On Nov 1st, I ordered a DOXA Sub 200T yellow from the AD here in Vegas. Watches of Switzerland in the Wynn. I received it on the Nov 8. Excellent shopping experience, a little swag included, along with cappuccino and their watchmaker sized the bracelet and buffed it out, removing all the glue from the stickers. On the bracelet, it fit my big wrist perfectly!
> 
> As an a full AD, I get a generous return policy and a more generous exchange policy.
> 
> ...


I'm going to be in Vegas later this week. Any other watch related places you would recommend in addition to WOS and the place in Caesar's Forum?


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> I'm going to be in Vegas later this week. Any other watch related places you would recommend in addition to WOS and the place in Caesar's Forum?


Next to the Wynn is the Palazo. Inside there are 6 or 7 great watch shops and upstairs from there is Holologio, run by a buddy of my Karan, (pronounced koran) Usually takes me a few hours to visit every single shop in both. Well worth it.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Just got an email from Joma with a bunch more Doxa watches in stock. All for a whopping 10% off


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> Just got an email from Joma with a bunch more Doxa watches in stock. All for a whopping 10% off


Look for errors in their pricing... 10% off the price that a couple hundred below what it should be isn't all bad  They seem to be bad with the variants...


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## CuriosExplorer22 (Jan 3, 2022)

I was actually looking to get one of these for the holidays. Its kind of perfect timing


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## Ticktocker (Oct 27, 2009)

Ryeguy said:


> Just got an email from Joma with a bunch more Doxa watches in stock. All for a whopping 10% off


10% is still not enough to make me buy grey. I think I've unknowingly given up on Doxa altogether. Just too much silliness within the brand.


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## antiscout (Jan 6, 2010)

Too many posts here to see if this was mentioned- but jomashop dumped a ton of Doxa’s onto eBay with very little discount. Super weird way to run a business.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

antiscout said:


> Too many posts here to see if this was mentioned- but jomashop dumped a ton of Doxa’s onto eBay with very little discount. Super weird way to run a business.


I hadn't seen this, but my guess is the Joma source for Doxa watches is flaky (at best).

A bunch of us purchased watches (at a decent discount) when the first announced carrying them only to have Joma cancel our orders.

Now it seems Joma's expected stock is showing up, but it seems many of us (myself included) are not interested in the either their new, minimal, discount or their selling practices (the consolation prize $5 off coupon that could not be combined with any other offer was a bit of a slap in the face to those of us who had waited months with open orders), so now they are trying to dump watches on eBay.

At this point for me it is all academic. Doxa will not warranty a watch purchased through a grey market dealer and I am not willing to "self insure" a watch for only a 10% discount. 

I am only watching this now as I am interested in what Doxa will do to the AD who is supplying the stock to Joma.

If Doxa is serializing their watches, and if Doxa is tracking which AD's get which serial numbers, then all Doxa will have to do is purchase a couple of these grey market watches and trace the serial numbers back to the guilty dealer(s).

I don't know if there is any real legal risk to the AD (I guess Doxa could bring a lawsuit) but at a minimum I'm sure they would cancel the distribution agreement. I'm just curious of who Joma was dealing with - what region of the world, etc. Imagine if it was WoS


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## valerian839 (Jan 7, 2021)

the ones currently on ebay sold by Jomashop are between 1% to 5% off list price. LOL.


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

Ryeguy said:


> I hadn't seen this, but my guess is the Joma source for Doxa watches is flaky (at best).
> 
> A bunch of us purchased watches (at a decent discount) when the first announced carrying them only to have Joma cancel our orders.
> 
> ...





EXCELLENT post!!

Thank you for your clarity!!


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> I hadn't seen this, but my guess is the Joma source for Doxa watches is flaky (at best).
> 
> A bunch of us purchased watches (at a decent discount) when the first announced carrying them only to have Joma cancel our orders.
> 
> ...


Mine has an authorized dealer stamp on the warranty card and the reseller who sold them to Joma is still selling Doxa and they follow one another on social media, so I'm going to go with they... nobody actually cares now theory....


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

STARSTELLA said:


> Mine has an authorized dealer stamp on the warranty card and the reseller who sold them to Joma is still selling Doxa and they follow one another on social media, so I'm going to go with they... nobody actually cares now theory....


I completely understand if you prefer not to "out" the dealer (and you probably shouldn't), but dang if I'm not dying to know!

I figured it would be a small AD in either eastern Europe or the middle east. I would be shocked if it was one of the larger US or UK "anchor" dealers, but stranger things have happened.

Interesting how Joma has gotten the AD to stamp the warranty cards. I guess Doxa could still investigate and dissolve their relationship with this AD, but it would at least allow the consumer to have their warranty work done by Doxa.

Of the few watches I have purchased from either Ashford or Joma, I don't think any came with stamped cards. I'll have to check when I have a minute.


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## wpbmike (Mar 8, 2016)

SUB 300T Caribbean purchased.

10% off plus another Joma $50 off promo code.

Also coincided with a Barclays MC offer of 0% on all new purchases until August 2023.


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## STARSTELLA (Dec 15, 2012)

Ryeguy said:


> I completely understand if you prefer not to "out" the dealer (and you probably shouldn't), but dang if I'm not dying to know!
> 
> I figured it would be a small AD in either eastern Europe or the middle east. I would be shocked if it was one of the larger US or UK "anchor" dealers, but stranger things have happened.
> 
> ...


It's seemingly a massive retailer in with multiple locations based on a bit of research I did. Doxa might be, by thousands of dollars, the least expensive brand offered by the reseller as well. I'll not say what part of the world they're in because it would be pretty easy to track them down but I will say, Doxa knows that they have supplied the watches to Joma.

Who knows, maybe Doxa gave them a slap on the hand, first warning kind of thing or maybe they had such deep levels of inventory that they have been cut off and are just selling through what they have. Speculation of course.

As far as the stamping, it's not uncommon that warranty cards are stamped when inventory is received to save time in the sales process at a later date. Although, I bought a Certina PH from Joma. It was actually drop shipped to me from a dealer in Canada with full stamped warranty and papers. Maybe on all brands not stocked, Joma requires this.


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## MaximillionBuxx (Dec 31, 2016)

JimBianchi said:


> Next to the Wynn is the Palazo. Inside there are 6 or 7 great watch shops and upstairs from there is Holologio, run by a buddy of my Karan, (pronounced koran) Usually takes me a few hours to visit every single shop in both. Well worth it.


I bought a GS at Horologio. What a fun shop. I bet I was there for two hours.


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## JimBianchi (Sep 18, 2019)

MaximillionBuxx said:


> I bought a GS at Horologio. What a fun shop. I bet I was there for two hours.


Easy to do there. We are like kids in a toy store, you can't drag us out!


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## wpbmike (Mar 8, 2016)

And now all the Doxas are gone from Joma’s site…


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

wpbmike said:


> And now all the Doxas are gone from Joma’s site…


So weird. This has got to be the flakiest grey market sales marketing campaign I have ever seen.

I think they sent me emails every single day promoting pretty much the entire Doxa portfolio yet it seems they must get only 5 or 6 watches total from whoever is the source.

The entire thing is odd to me because if I were a Doxa AD, why would I risk loosing my AD status over a few thousand dollars?

Looking back to post #76, this was Doxa's response to this entire Jomashop scenario back when it first happened:


Doxa Watches Official said:


> Dear DOXA Fans,
> 
> DOXA considers its bond of trust with official retailers worldwide and through its exclusive distribution network for providing the best service and advice to customers and aficionados of DOXA watches.
> 
> ...


Emphasis added by me.

One would think it would be extremely simple for a Doxa employee to be tasked with purchasing a watch from Joma, tracing the serial number back through the supply chain logistics, and terminating that AD from their network. 

As an aside, given the AD is stamping the warranty cards of the watches it sends to JomaShop, I doubt there is anything Doxa can do to the JomaShop buyer because there is no way to tell if the consumer purchased the watch from the retailer or from JomaShop (unless Doxa demanded a copy of the AD receipt as well as the signed warranty card).


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## wpbmike (Mar 8, 2016)

300T arrived from Joma this morning by UPS. I used the standard “free” shipping. The watch is perfect. Sizing the bracelet was easy.


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## King_Neptune (Mar 3, 2015)

Haha. It looks like they're entirely gone from the website again.


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