# Is Mühle-Glashütte's discounting hurting them?



## comstar

I just received my Panova and love it. Got a good deal from the AD and was able to get them to match a price from one of the discount sites. I always see Muhle's on sale and I get that they need to move inventory, but I feel once it starts doing that, the branding goes to hell. My $720 watch has an in house movement, not ETA or some German producer. I just wonder why this brand doesn't get more praise.


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## Master2112

comstar said:


> I just received my Panova and love it. Got a good deal from the AD and was able to get them to match a price from one of the discount sites. I always see Muhle's on sale and I get that they need to move inventory, but I feel once it starts doing that, the branding goes to hell. My $720 watch has an in house movement, not ETA or some German producer. I just wonder why this brand doesn't get more praise.


Let's keep it out little secret.... I'm sure (and hope) they are making profit, and we have great and cool watches with story, from family manufacturer with human face - for quite decent and realistic prices... Besides Muhle, I'm Omega fan. Their price policy is slowly going to hell and soon I will not be following them anymore, as once I have to pay above 5000 USD for SS watch, it's a no go area for me. Not because I cannot afford it, but because it's simply not worth it. As long as Muhle stays in 1000-3000 USD range and keeps precision and reliability of their movements and original design of their watches like today - they'll be my favourite brand!

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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## Nokie

They are a great brand for those who know good quality watches, IMHO.


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## StufflerMike

What in-house movement are you talking about ? The Panova is fitted with a SW200-1 in Mühle execution. But in-house ? No way.


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## comstar

stuffler said:


> What in-house movement are you talking about ? The Panova is fitted with a SW200-1 in Mühle execution. But in-house ? No way.


Oh. I thought the SW200-1 was their movement. The only mass producer I know of is ETA.


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## StufflerMike

comstar said:


> Oh. I thought the SW200-1 was their movement. The only mass producer I know of is ETA.


The SW200-1 by Sellita is a clone of the ETA 2824-2 with one added jewel.


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## Beach_Bum

Sellita is like the Made in China version of a Swiss movement.


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## alexandrov

MG has only one unique, future-classic and iconic model. I own it and enjoy it every single day.


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## cooper99

Muhle's pricing to quality ratio is very high...horology buffs dire a variety of timepieces... but at some point begin to question the trade off between brand value 
and quality received...bespoke is one thing in knowing the owner has a quality movement and a very well defined design

Muhle recognizes this and to their credit enable deeper market penetration and expanded brand commitment

I am drawn to the makers that evoke passion and individuality and recognize a watch investment is a very personal decision..and that to me places the attraction way above higher price brand imaging...passion is hot and dynamic..whereas a wrist flicker brand name is akin to an ice cube..impersonal and a facade


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## cooper99

Clarification on Sellita movement...Swiss made alternative to ETA movement. Sellita began by supplying components to ETA as I have read and then they expanded to include entire movement since ETA design is off patent protection. Besides ETA desires to support only SWATCH group and limit production to their own brands. Also I think ETA wants volume orders and places a surcharge when minimums are not reached by small makers. Sellita design is that of ETA movement for sure..but is not a "cheap copy". The design and reliability is readily accepted by many makers. Give China some credit since it has been reported that they supply thousands of Seagull movements worldwide.

Quality or quality control is anther issue and varies in part by the effort expended by the maker to ensure reliability. In some cases the makers explain their examination of the movement, mods initiated, and cosmetic changes to rotor and bridge to enable case back viewing.

But most makers, especially those on the higher end price wise rename the basic movement so it appears theirs is an in-house design. On closer inspection of some of these it has been observed that ETA and possibly Sellita is given the mods and then makes adjustments...OK then the maker renames movement due to design change

In buying quality, it would be informative if there was more transparency to enable prospective buyer of the movement quality.

I am guessing this is a trade off between production volume and cost to refine movement components.

I know of a small tie maker that is so passionate about his watches that each ETA or SELLITA he recives..he completely disassembles the movement examines each component, cleans and adjusts. He even provides a DVD to show this process and his prices are under $1500

This is not practical, but selective testing would be a big benefit

Higher end watches initiate some changes to basic ETA/SELLITA movements and then charge several thousand dollars more .
So make a little change and get back big dollars for limited effort

What it comes to is for the maker to be certain movement meets quality standards. But how is the buyer informed?


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## FBPB

Having visited the factory this past August, they are definitely manufacturing a lot of the pieces themselves (including the rotor and woodpecker regulator) to their own tolerances, on CNC machines that have in their own building. The also manufacture their own movements for some of their watches.

Their product facility is quite impressive, with the CNC machines in the lower level, the polishing and decoration on the middle level, and the upper level where final assembly and inspection is done, with the top level being pressurised so as to push dust out, rather than to let it infiltrate in.

One thing I do like about Mühle is that the watches are all put together / made by one person on each station. There are no "stations" with each worker only inserting a few pieces, 100s of times per day. Rather, each person building the watches builds it from A to Z from the finished pieces, it gives them a sense of accomplishment, rather than just "a job", and means they are made by watchmakers, instead of parts-assemblers.

I have a Lunova Day Date, which runs a Sellita movement. I did have to send it back for repair as I received it new with some problems (due to someone in the delivery chain having dropped it quite forcefully). But since then it runs impeccably. Oh, and the repair was done under warranty, so for free.

So, all I can say about Mühle is that they are a fantastic company making fantastic watches. I will buy from them again.


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## foxzone

Where can you get them in US?


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## tsteph12

Every MG timepiece I’ve owned has performed flawlessly. All have also been extremely accurate at +1-3 secs/day. Any significant discounts I’ve encountered in the past have typically prompted me to click purchase tab without much hesitation.


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## whineboy

cooper99 said:


> ... since ETA design is off patent protection...


As said in other posts, I've never seen any of these purported ETA patents identified by number. Since the 2824 movement dates to around 1961, per Watch Wiki, any patent covering it would have expired by 1981, give or take a few years. I'm a registered U.S. patent lawyer with 30+ years of experience, so I know something about this.

I'm not saying there are no such patents for the 2824, just that I've never, ever seen any identified by number.

IMHO, Sellita's waiting to product 2824 clones probably had nothing to do with purported ETA patents. More likely, ETA's restricting supply created a profitable market.

Lastly - I see a lot of advertising that implies something patented is 'better' or approved by the government - neither are true. 'Better' is not required to get a patent, only new and non-obvious.

Rant over!


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## fish70

foxzone said:


> Where can you get them in US?


I see them on Overstock.com a lot.


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## StufflerMike

foxzone said:


> Where can you get them in US?


Well, you could have tried Google or the Mühle web site to find out yourself, anyway for your convenience: https://www.muehle-glashuette.de/en/contact/retailers/


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## foxzone

Thanks.


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## Sturmgewehr1944

fish70 said:


> I see them on Overstock.com a lot.


Wouldn't have figured that&#8230; I will need to check Overstock !


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## comstar

Ugh, thought I was getting a deal from my AD on my Panova....both Drop and T of M have featured it for less.


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## dino888

very great brand. i will still be a loyal follower


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## outdoors_guy

This thread is getting a little old now, but I want to say don’t be fooled by Drop. While they show the MG panova, I don’t think anyone has successfully purchased this watch from there, or if so it is very few. I have been trying myself with no luck. Much griping about this in the discussion threads - there is something funky where Drop posts it as available, but they have none in stock, or maybe one.


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## Dr4

Nice one. I may have to pick-up one of these. Very iconic.


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## Mjsusc

Really should. Great pieces!


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## LDoc

I bought a Seebataillon GMT from Drop and had no issues. Quick shipping and the price was 1900 or 2000, which is the lowest price that I've seen them at new.


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## Toppler99

I almost bought the Panova from Drop. I really like the blue dial version. What is "T of M"? Thanks.


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