# How liquid would a 235.026 be on the secondary market?



## ThisHobbyBankruptsMe (Dec 9, 2020)

A 235.026 would be a major purchase for me, and I worry that if I end up selling it down the road for whatever reason, it would be hard to find a buyer.









For those who have sold ALS on the secondary market, what has been your experience? How long did it take for you to find a buyer, and how much did you make or lose on the sale compared to your purchase price?


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## descentropy (Apr 21, 2021)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> A 235.026 would be a major purchase for me, and I worry that if I end up selling it down the road for whatever reason, it would be hard to find a buyer.
> View attachment 15916693
> 
> 
> For those who have sold ALS on the secondary market, what has been your experience? How long did it take for you to find a buyer, and how much did you make or lose on the sale compared to your purchase price?


It really boils down to where you live, how many watch enthusiasts there are. Do you live in a major city? You might be in a completely rural area, but your next door neighbor is a total watch nut. In general, all high-price watches take longer to sell if you have a certain price point in your head. Except the very sought after pieces of course like Patek Philippe Nautilus, Audemars Piguet Royal Oak or Rolex GMT Master II.

If you can't afford to wait for the right buyer for 6 months, maybe the watch is too expensive for you. Here in Switzerland it seems the white gold watches from A. Lange & Söhne are a bit more popular, but that is just my personal impression and not based on any sales figures, which I don't know.


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## ThisHobbyBankruptsMe (Dec 9, 2020)

descentropy said:


> It really boils down to where you live, how many watch enthusiasts there are. Do you live in a major city? You might be in a completely rural area, but your next door neighbor is a total watch nut. In general, all high-price watches take longer to sell if you have a certain price point in your head. Except the very sought after pieces of course like Patek Philippe Nautilus, Audemars Piguet Royal Oak or Rolex GMT Master II.
> 
> If you can't afford to wait for the right buyer for 6 months, maybe the watch is too expensive for you. Here in Switzerland it seems the white gold watches from A. Lange & Söhne are a bit more popular, but that is just my personal impression and not based on any sales figures, which I don't know.


I live in Hong Kong, and unfortunately the luxury watch market is fairly gauche here. It's a large market, but almost entirely dominated by the big 3. So ALS doesn't get too much love. There are only 2 ALS boutiques in the entire city.

I've been offered 20% off retail, which is definitely a bargain, but it seems that a used 235.026 is selling for about 20% less than that even. 
Usually in HK, you can buy a new watch at a discount, wear it (lightly), then resell it for almost the same price you paid for it. It doesn't seem like that's possible with ALS...


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## descentropy (Apr 21, 2021)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> I live in Hong Kong, and unfortunately the luxury watch market is fairly gauche here. It's a large market, but almost entirely dominated by the big 3. So ALS doesn't get too much love. There are only 2 ALS boutiques in the entire city.
> 
> I've been offered 20% off retail, which is definitely a bargain, but it seems that a used 235.026 is selling for about 20% less than that even.
> Usually in HK, you can buy a new watch at a discount, wear it (lightly), then resell it for almost the same price you paid for it. It doesn't seem like that's possible with ALS...


I perceive Hong Kong as a watch enthusiast city where there's certainly an audience for expensive watches. 20% is a great discount and if you really love the watch, sleep another night and if you still want it, buy it.

*I want to share this with you:* I was thinking about getting a A. Lange & Söhne Zeitwerk. Completely mezmerized by that model since I had it on the wrist. Read everything about it. I could afford it, but I'd have to liquidate a substantial amount of my investments. And the hit I'd take in my net worth just tells me that I can't afford the watch at the moment. I still have to save more. I personally always want to have a multiple on my bank account compared to the cost of the watch I want to buy. So that in the case of a sale I can afford to wait and don't have to take a low-ball offer since I'm dependent on the money. But everybody else has a different risk profile. Think about it this way: if you save a bit more and buy it in a year, the watch will still be there. And if you still want it, it's probably going to be a keeper.


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## ThisHobbyBankruptsMe (Dec 9, 2020)

descentropy said:


> I perceive Hong Kong as a watch enthusiast city where there's certainly an audience for expensive watches. 20% is a great discount and if you really love the watch, sleep another night and if you still want it, buy it.
> 
> *I want to share this with you:* I was thinking about getting a A. Lange & Söhne Zeitwerk. Completely mezmerized by that model since I had it on the wrist. Read everything about it. I could afford it, but I'd have to liquidate a substantial amount of my investments. And the hit I'd take in my net worth just tells me that I can't afford the watch at the moment. I still have to save more. I personally always want to have a multiple on my bank account compared to the cost of the watch I want to buy. So that in the case of a sale I can afford to wait and don't have to take a low-ball offer since I'm dependent on the money. But everybody else has a different risk profile. Think about it this way: if you save a bit more and buy it in a year, the watch will still be there. And if you still want it, it's probably going to be a keeper.


You make a great point. We always need to remember to be financially responsible adults. I consider my watch purchases a form of bad investment (unless I score a steel Rolex at retail, then it's a great investment!).

That's why I'm concerned with this ALS. Like you, I find the dial and watch in general to be mesmerizing. At first I was put off by the price, but after some investigation, I realized that ALS is actually cheaper than other mid-tier brands like Omega and Rolex if you compare ALS to their precious metal counterparts. A gold Omega Constellation is over $25K USD, a gold Sub is even more than that. Bottom line, gold watches just cost that much. Comparatively, ALS watches are actually cheaper.

The 1815 is a fraction the cost of the Zeitwerk though. I can't imagine wearing the cost of a decent car on my wrist.

I'll do more research on the second hand value of the 1815 and see if I can squeeze a better discount from my dealer.

BTW: What discount did your dealer offer you on the Zeitwerk?


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> I live in Hong Kong, and unfortunately the luxury watch market is fairly gauche here. It's a large market, but almost entirely dominated by the big 3. So ALS doesn't get too much love. There are only 2 ALS boutiques in the entire city.
> 
> I've been offered 20% off retail, which is definitely a bargain, but it seems that a used 235.026 is selling for about 20% less than that even.
> Usually in HK, you can buy a new watch at a discount, wear it (lightly), then resell it for almost the same price you paid for it. It doesn't seem like that's possible with ALS...


yup. lange doesnt generally do well in the secondary market.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> You make a great point. We always need to remember to be financially responsible adults. I consider my watch purchases a form of bad investment (unless I score a steel Rolex at retail, then it's a great investment!).
> 
> That's why I'm concerned with this ALS. Like you, I find the dial and watch in general to be mesmerizing. At first I was put off by the price, but after some investigation, I realized that ALS is actually cheaper than other mid-tier brands like Omega and Rolex if you compare ALS to their precious metal counterparts. A gold Omega Constellation is over $25K USD, a gold Sub is even more than that. Bottom line, gold watches just cost that much. Comparatively, ALS watches are actually cheaper.
> 
> ...


a zeitwerk is about USD80K retail? My local AD only willing to give 30% discount. I got mine from a grey NOS at about 47% discount.


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## mario1971 (Feb 4, 2020)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> A 235.026 would be a major purchase for me, and I worry that if I end up selling it down the road for whatever reason, it would be hard to find a buyer.
> View attachment 15916693
> 
> 
> For those who have sold ALS on the secondary market, what has been your experience? How long did it take for you to find a buyer, and how much did you make or lose on the sale compared to your purchase price?


In order not to lose too much, you would have to buy it from AD with a minimum discount of 30%. Recently, Lange has had a price increase which also affects resale prices. This model is not easily marketable because it is not "hot" and not salable. On the other hand, Lange offers a lot for relatively "little" money compared to PP or Vacheron. It is a brand for true connoisseurs, with no clear investment value as of today. The exception is, of course, Odysseus.


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## ThisHobbyBankruptsMe (Dec 9, 2020)

Pongster said:


> a zeitwerk is about USD80K retail? My local AD only willing to give 30% discount. I got mine from a grey NOS at about 47% discount.


A 47% discount?! 
Is this dealer in the Philippines? Would they ship abroad?


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> A 47% discount?!
> Is this dealer in the Philippines? Would they ship abroad?


no, it's a grey dealer based in Boston. And depends on availability.

the Philippine dealer only gave about 30%. And they dont ship. Locally or abroad.


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## MellowYellow (Feb 27, 2021)

The quickest way to move that type of watch is by selling to a company that specializes in second hand high end watches such as Watchbox. Your estimate is probably pretty close. I would think you would get somewhere around half MSRP for a lightly used trade in. It's not the kind of thing to buy if you're not deeply in love with it.


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## Aquaracer1 (Jul 23, 2009)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> A 235.026 would be a major purchase for me, and I worry that if I end up selling it down the road for whatever reason, it would be hard to find a buyer.
> View attachment 15916693
> 
> 
> For those who have sold ALS on the secondary market, what has been your experience? How long did it take for you to find a buyer, and how much did you make or lose on the sale compared to your purchase price?


I've sold about 5 ALS 1815, including u/d on the secondary market. Slow as molasses. Very few interested private buyers. Ended up selling / trading to a dealer. I wouldn't buy one new if there is a chance you will flip it in the future as you will take a huge depreciation hit. All of mine were bought pre owned. But only 2 were sold at near what I paid for them. Lesson learned, lol


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## descentropy (Apr 21, 2021)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> BTW: What discount did your dealer offer you on the Zeitwerk?


Retail 78,000 CHF, offered at 72,000 CHF. Not great ? But I was in contact also with a private seller who offered it pre-owned around the 50,000 CHF mark. So you see, quite some fluctuation. But a huge sum of money. But I personally don't have an issue buying "used".


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## ThisHobbyBankruptsMe (Dec 9, 2020)

descentropy said:


> Retail 78,000 CHF, offered at 72,000 CHF. Not great ? But I was in contact also with a private seller who offered it pre-owned around the 50,000 CHF mark. So you see, quite some fluctuation. But a huge sum of money. But I personally don't have an issue buying "used".


Yeah, 50K francs for a Zeitwerk seems pretty darn good.


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## dglessner (Oct 22, 2013)

Great watch, but a relatively small pool of potential resale buyers. You would certainly take a depreciation hit and would need to cast a wide geographic net, and be patient during the process. As others have said, looking this isn't really a watch one buys with an expectation of a minimal loss on resale if you change your mind. Better be a sure as you can that it's a long term piece before you make this purchase.


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## ThisHobbyBankruptsMe (Dec 9, 2020)

dglessner said:


> Great watch, but a relatively small pool of potential resale buyers. You would certainly take a depreciation hit and would need to cast a wide geographic net, and be patient during the process. As others have said, looking this isn't really a watch one buys with an expectation of a minimal loss on resale if you change your mind. Better be a sure as you can that it's a long term piece before you make this purchase.


Agreed. To be clear though, my main purpose to buy this watch is not as an investment. I'm willing to take a hit on resale. I just want to get a solid idea of what that hit will be.

I found in new on Jomashop for 30% off the Hong Kong retail... but I've seen used ones in excellent condition being sold for even less, close to a 45% discount.

I think I will buy this used, and then the resale will basically be flat.


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## dglessner (Oct 22, 2013)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> Agreed. To be clear though, my main purpose to buy this watch is not as an investment. I'm willing to take a hit on resale. I just want to get a solid idea of what that hit will be.
> 
> I found in new on Jomashop for 30% off the Hong Kong retail... but I've seen used ones in excellent condition being sold for even less, close to a 45% discount.
> 
> I think I will buy this used, and then the resale will basically be flat.


Agree - if you can get the right watch and deal as a resale, that's the way to go....


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## CFR (May 13, 2006)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> I think I will buy this used, and then the resale will basically be flat.


^^ This is the advice I'd give to anyone who wants an 1815 and who doesn't have a ton of disposable cash. Then you won't get too hurt, even if you need to part with it quickly.

Also, before you get a 235.026, please take a serious look at a preowned 206.025 (platinum/silver dial) unless you have a large wrist. The 206.025, which is quite a bit older ("OG 1815"), is a really beautiful watch and has that nice extra bit of heft that comes with the territory of platinum. Personally, I'd prefer it to a 235.026, but you can't go wrong either way.


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## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

Pongster said:


> no, it's a grey dealer based in Boston. And depends on availability.
> 
> the Philippine dealer only gave about 30%. And they dont ship. Locally or abroad.


So is this business shareable with us? Many would like a good deal and dealer

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

Pongster said:


> no, it's a grey dealer based in Boston. And depends on availability.
> 
> the Philippine dealer only gave about 30%. And they dont ship. Locally or abroad.


European Watch company?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

thewatchidiot said:


> So is this business shareable with us? Many would like a good deal and dealer
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i would suppose. If you come on over and pay cash, i could hook you up with my local AD. What model are you looking at?


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## mario1971 (Feb 4, 2020)

My first crush was also 1815 with a small seconds in white gold. Ultimately, I chose something else.


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## cheu_f50 (Oct 26, 2012)

If the watch is very liquid (which would also make it in demand), the AD would not be offering a discount to you to begin with. Whatever prices you see in the secondary market, assuming the used dealer would give you 80% of that.

Although I cannot predict the future, it does look like A Lange are more popular compared to even just a couple of years ago. No idea what the future will hold.


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## cheu_f50 (Oct 26, 2012)

Pongster said:


> no, it's a grey dealer based in Boston. And depends on availability.
> 
> the Philippine dealer only gave about 30%. And they dont ship. Locally or abroad.


Are you also from the Boston area? Not looking for a gray dealer, but good to know there are other WUSers in the area.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

cheu_f50 said:


> Are you also from the Boston area? Not looking for a gray dealer, but good to know there are other WUSers in the area.


no am not. Am based in the Philippines.


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## Thadeust (Dec 14, 2018)

Aquaracer1 said:


> I've sold about 5 ALS 1815, including u/d on the secondary market. Slow as molasses. Very few interested private buyers. Ended up selling / trading to a dealer. I wouldn't buy one new if there is a chance you will flip it in the future as you will take a huge depreciation hit. All of mine were bought pre owned. But only 2 were sold at near what I paid for them. Lesson learned, lol


When you sold to a dealer/traded to a dealer&#8230;. how much would they give you for your watch vs. you selling directly.

I'm always curious in regards to what their cut is. Hypothetical example: watch new from AD is $100. Secondary market it's going for $80. I decide to sell to dealer instead. Will they give me 50% of current secondary market value? Or more? Is there a ballpark % we can use to estimate?

I'm assuming it is going to be lower for ALS vs. other watches. Going back to my $100 watch example
above, if it were a Rolex, I'm sure the dealer would pay me closer to secondary market prices since they could turn it over more quickly.


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## [BOBO] (May 12, 2020)

I regard all spent money as lost forever. Whatever I buy has no monetary value to me once I own it.
So, if I like something, I get it. If I run out of money, I work harder to get some new money in. 

I wouldn't want to have my old money back and no longer have my watch...
What would be the point of that?


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## ThisHobbyBankruptsMe (Dec 9, 2020)

CFR said:


> ^^ This is the advice I'd give to anyone who wants an 1815 and who doesn't have a ton of disposable cash. Then you won't get too hurt, even if you need to part with it quickly.
> 
> Also, before you get a 235.026, please take a serious look at a preowned 206.025 (platinum/silver dial) unless you have a large wrist. The 206.025, which is quite a bit older ("OG 1815"), is a really beautiful watch and has that nice extra bit of heft that comes with the territory of platinum. Personally, I'd prefer it to a 235.026, but you can't go wrong either way.


Yep, I actually started out looking at this one. 
The pricing on it is a bit weird since it's basically cheaper now than the white gold version at 38. I think this is one of the few cases where the platinum version of a watch is cheaper than the white gold version.

But alas 36mm is just too small for me. My wife has 36mm OP, and while it's passable on my wrists, it still seems on the small side.


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## CFR (May 13, 2006)

ThisHobbyBankruptsMe said:


> Yep, I actually started out looking at this one.
> The pricing on it is a bit weird since it's basically cheaper now than the white gold version at 38. I think this is one of the few cases where the platinum version of a watch is cheaper than the white gold version.
> 
> But alas 36mm is just too small for me. My wife has 36mm OP, and while it's passable on my wrists, it still seems on the small side.


Ah, that's really too bad. That particular 1815 has a silver-colored dial, not a rhodium dial, so it looks different from the usual platinum-cased Lange watches. The dial pops a bit more. Truly stunning, especially after it gets worn and case loses some of its luster after getting scratched a bit. When I visited the Lange manufacture several years ago and had lunch with a longtime (now-retired) customer service rep whom I used to have a lot of contact with, this was the well-worn watch she was wearing. I have a 6"/154mm wrist though.


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## benjamin831 (Mar 31, 2007)

I don't find ALS to be particularly hard to move given the price. But they're no where close to PPs and Rolexes if you're talking about ROI.


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## Packleader (Aug 25, 2011)

Old or new, a 235.026 will always have a buyer.

Cheers,
Packleader


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