# What's going on with Citizen?



## watchw (Sep 29, 2012)

I don't see them getting mentioned much lately, and the newer models that came out lately are not that good (design wise)
I loved my BN2024 when i had it.
What do you think?


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## Cobia (Nov 24, 2013)

Completely agree, i used to be a big citizen diver fan, citizen divers got me into watches as a kid, got many aqualands, got zillas, an orca but their modern offerings barring the top of the line promasters which are too big to wear casually imo have been generally poor with lack luster designs, part of the reason my attentions have moved to seiko.
Dont get me wrong they make good watches and have been great innovators over the years in the dive watch scene, but most just arnt appealing to me any more.
They release very few new models too so theres not much to look forward too in comparison to seiko.
I saw one of their new casual divers in the latest citizen releases thread, it was so unimaginative, so generic and bland.
Ive never thought citizen have been as in touch with the market as seiko, as we are seeing lately seiko put out a lot of watches their fans want, even in the case of the mini turtle making smaller case sizes because ive no doubt so many people wanted them.

Seiko often talk about their fans, stating how much it means to them the fans naming their dive watches, nicknames theyve gone onto adopt as official names, i think seiko has their finger on the pulse a lot more than citizen.
Having said that theres a lot more seiko could be doing for their fans like QC issues.

Id definitely be open to buying more citizens but apart from their top line of divers which really are pure tool dive watches, theres nothing much of interest.


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## Cobia (Nov 24, 2013)

Great citizen modern design imo but its a big watch to wear casually and very pricy, still a very nice diver..








Modern citizen design that doesnt grab me


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## watchw (Sep 29, 2012)

Yes definitely.
It's sad they lost their way. 
I guess they just gave up the fight to seiko


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## eco-drive (Dec 5, 2017)

They are busy with their "thinnest watch" in the world at the moment I guess...


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## jdmfetish (Nov 30, 2011)

They are among the best as far as some of their lines, divers .......not being one of them.


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

Edited...


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## Munchie (Dec 20, 2013)

Quote Cobia

"Modern citizen design that doesnt grab me"

I have to say I agree -I have tried to like the second watch you posted (BN0190 ) and its variants but there is something missing - A bit bland and boring compared to say the Excalibur ! now there was a nice dive watch - if I didn't get such crown dig from mine I would never have sold it.

Apologies for the lack of pics to illustrate but even writing this is painful on my work computer lots of glitches going on here - this post took 10 mins


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## cold_beer839 (Jul 25, 2011)

Yeah, their divers have always been outclassed by Seiko. However I never lose hope with them. I have a EcoZilla that is pretty sweet when equipped with strap adapters. I like the new Promaster NY0070-83's, but the crown is small and the movement doesn't hack. It's like they just can't release a 'perfect' diver. They are very reliable though, rather it be Eco or auto.


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## norsairius (Jul 5, 2015)

Cobia said:


> Great citizen modern design imo but its a big watch to wear casually and very pricy, still a very nice diver..
> View attachment 12781415
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. That first watch is a massive beast, but is also REALLY cool in my book. No way I could pull it off, but I'm glad they made it! As for the BN0191, I got one and it just didn't work out for me. I sold it recently on eBay for that reason. It wasn't a bad watch by any means, but it just wasn't for me. I have its predecessor, the "Prime" or BN0150/151 and I'm happier with that one.

Otherwise, I feel that Japan gets the cooler Citizen models in general, like the high-accuracy quartz (HAQ) eco-drives, etc. For example, this HAQ Eco-Drive dress watch:







I eventually found this online and this is a $2000+ watch! eBay has some such models in the ~$1k-$2k range. I wish they sold watches like these more broadly. I do acknowledge though that selling and marketing an expensive watch like this in the brand-conscious US of A could be a challenge if it's sold under the Citizen name without some other distinction indicating its premium nature.

Pic is from this article: https://www.ablogtowatch.com/experiencing-japanese-culture-innovation-citizen-watches/ - Generally a really interesting article on Citizen. Worth reading, if you ask me.

Otherwise, I do like some of the innovation that Citizen brings to the table with their Satellite Wave watches, for example. This newer one caught my eye:







Functional, practical, though maybe too busy for some. I geek out over seeing the time zones/cities around the bezel though.

Anyway, generally speaking, I am a big fan of Citizen. Though I think their overall lineup could maybe use some tweaking.

Edit, additional comments: They just seem a bit scattered, if that makes sense. It's like it's hard to look at a Citizen watch and just know what line within their product range it fits in whereas with Seiko I think it's a bit more clear. It feels like there just needs to be more cohesiveness.

Like I said, I really like Citizen and they're still one of my favorite brands. I even recently picked up one of their Grand Signature Classics because I really like those and the Grand Signature line (I'd be interested to see them expand it more!). Citizen watches are actually a big reason why I got in to watches and I eventually would love to have the HAQ Eco-Drive I mentioned above (its design is just so simple, functional, and clean, yet distinctly Citizen to me). So I hope that they can get out of this weird slump they're in, whether it's merely perceived or real.


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## roadie (Feb 5, 2009)

Agreed, no new designs that grab me and I do look at a lot of their offerings. This and the fact that I've had 3 solar cells prematurely die on me. One of these was sent to Citizen Canada for non warranty replacement ($123.00 service) only to die less than a year later.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

From the point of view of your average WIS Citizen seem to have gone off the boil a bit lately - it’s all Turtle this or Samurai that.


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## usc1 (Jun 25, 2007)

The divers look great but are too large in diameter. They need to come back down on the sizing on some of their models.


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## GaryK30 (Dec 14, 2014)

Munchie said:


> Quote Cobia
> 
> "Modern citizen design that doesnt grab me"
> 
> ...


Here's a pic of my BN0100-00E Excalibur.


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## Worker (Nov 25, 2009)

I often wear a quartz watch so my Ecozilla's, Orca, and BN2024 see wrist time along with 1 Prime. Sold my Excalibur.

As for seiko...I wear a Tuna (Sawtooth and SBEE001, too) quite a bit as well, but don't have as many offerings from them in the quartz dept. 

I also wish Citizen would come out with a few more diver options as I am always willing to purchase from them.


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## BikerJeff (Feb 3, 2017)

I've looked at Citizen divers in the past, but none of them have interested me enough to buy one. The Citizen watches i do like are the atomic, perpetual chronos and i could see myself buying one of those sometime in the future.


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## Indo-Padawan (Nov 17, 2017)

I think because of Citizen's distribution policy.

They are selling their finest / highest grade for Japan Domestic Market
The 2nd prioritization is for Asian Market / European Market

I just received the summons from post office today, and will collect my new mid-end Attesa AT-9095 (JDM).
Hopefully I could post its review over this weekend.


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## Hale color (Aug 21, 2010)

If WUS would finally release them from Seiko & Citizen obscurity and give them their own forum I'm sure they would flourish once again;-)


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

They do sell a couple watches every now and then, so they're probably not doing all that badly. 
You can tell they're not as popular here though, because had the OP written this about Seiko, this thread would already be pages long, full of flames.


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## Cobia (Nov 24, 2013)

Indo-Padawan said:


> I think because of Citizen's distribution policy.
> 
> They are selling their finest / highest grade for Japan Domestic Market
> The 2nd prioritization is for Asian Market / European Market
> ...


Agree here, citizen concentrate on Japan and Asia a lot, maybe to the detriment of the rest of the world.
Having said that theyve always been very popular here in Australia, i suppose we are sort of part of asia though.
Back in the 80s their windsurfer digital watches were the coolest watch to wear for schoolkids and surfers, they were a huge hit and had some big advertising push's here which were very good.
Their dive watches have always been well respected here on the water and very well represented, theyve always made quality divers.
First mass production diver with a depth gauge was the aqualand, citizen led dive tech in watches there for a while, still come up with some of the most unique designs in their upper tier of divers.

Hopefully they might come out with something soon that will spark the enthusiasts interests again.


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## wongthian2 (Jun 16, 2016)

In general, Seiko rules the Japan watch world. Citizen watches are now equally represented in the stores. Casio rules for its G Shocks.
I seldom see the newer Japanese watches on men here in Japan. Prices are really getting high. The economy here is still rather stagnant, hence the G Shocks sell the most.
I am an expat Canadian and used to see only Citizen Navihawks in the stores. A few Seikos were seen. I read that Seiko policy was for the retail stores to buy Seikos for stocking. Citizen, on the other hand, allowed a type of credit. I think Citizen is concentrating on its Bulova line rather than its top Citizen models. The general overall trend in watches here is elevating the prices!

I just bought online from New York a Citizen diver quartz BN015 for $162 shipped to Japan! Great pricing and nice watch. This watch could be chosen by the British DoD as the next generic mil watch, says a MWR poster....
by leaf by toypoodleKimi, on Flickr


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## M1K3Z0R (Dec 3, 2012)

Part of me thinks they should do a straight-up submariner clone with eco-drive and atomic timekeeping. Price it to compete with the Invicta 8926 and it would be the equivalent of throwing a depth charge into the market, easy money!


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## Munchie (Dec 20, 2013)

I have liked Citizen watches for a long time.

I think they give excellent bang for buck and their QC is top notch in my experience no matter how cheap the watch.

I also really like the Eco drive system and am "always" in the market for one but over time I have struggled to find one thats a keeper. Mainly due to styling.

I had 3 eco drives at one point









All 3 had great lume and the second hand hit all (most) of the minute markers. All 3 now sold or gifted.

I also had this Mechanical (now sold)









So now I am just left with this

















The NY0040-09e which is a great little watch IMO - one of their greatest hits - and isnt going anywhere anytime soon.

So I am still open to Citizen given the bang for buck and QC... I just need to see something I actually like the style and design of.


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## AK2112 (Dec 5, 2011)

The fact that they make hardly any watches under 40mm makes me uninterested in the brand


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## BikerJeff (Feb 3, 2017)

One thing that bugs me about Citizen, is their Eco Drive advertising and sales blurb of 'Never needs a battery'. How do they get away with this BS ?


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## Indo-Padawan (Nov 17, 2017)

I bought Citizen Attesa AT9095-50E from Rakuten Japan, who send it by EMS to my address.

Delivery was around 8 days (including customs inspection here), and I just picked the package from Post office yesterday

When I opened the box, it was dead - battery totally depleted. The power indicator is at its lowest point. 

Then I read the manual, and found out a reference table of approximate charging times. 


Outdoors Sunny - to start working normally 40 minutes and for fully charged 30 hours

Outdoors Cloudy - to start working normally 1 hour and for fully charged 40 hours

Interior lighting - to start working normally 14 hours and for fully charged 920 hours


It is on the recharging process for 1 hour now, and it already starts moving. The weather is a bit cloudy here this morning.

I will create a thread later on after sufficient charging time here.


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## GregoryD (Jan 31, 2009)

I generally like Citizen designs more than Seiko, but Citizen's sports watches are so friggin' huge that most of the time I don't even both checking them out. It's also frustrating to me that they have the 9015 to deploy and use however they'd like, but they keep it mostly contained to their Signature line, which again are friggin' huge sports watches.


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## Schoenzy (Apr 2, 2014)

I would be more interested in a citizen watch if they;

1. Offered more watches with clean designs. 
2. Offered more watches that are mid sized.
3. Make sure the hands are long enough!
4. Make sure they receive RC signals beyond just Japan.
5. Keep the blue lume, it’s my favourite!


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## Schoenzy (Apr 2, 2014)

Double post, damn it!


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## X2-Elijah (Dec 25, 2009)

They have some very interesting technologies - satellite receptors, solar charging with dials where you literally cannot see the solar cell anywhere, hardened titanium casework, the miyota sub-brand... 

The designs are... odd. They don't seem to be aware of the current trends towards smaller, more retro-stylized watches. A big problem might be that Citizen simply has too many design directions and too many models. If they consolidated their range down to just a handful of models - using all their fancy technologies at their best - then citizen could make a strong comeback. As-is, they are lacking a visual brand identity.


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## Sayco (Feb 1, 2018)

I love Citizen and have been wearing their watches for 25+ years now. My Railroad model BM8180-54A was bought in 2011 and is still going strong after being a daily beater for over 4 years. I just bought a Night Hawk last week. That has been a great watch so far as well. Currently, I have 5 Citizens without a single complaint.

They may not be as popular as some of the other Japanese brands but they make quality watches at fair prices. They will always have a place in my collection.


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