# The ultimate aviator's watch?



## D1JBS (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm in the process of qualifying for my PPL and feel this is the perfect excuse to expand my collection!

On the subject of pilot's watches there are two distinct camps: Classic aviation-inspired watches and the practical models favoured by working pilots.

I'm looking for the latter and so as far as I can work out, here is the criteria:

*Robust* (can handle a few knocks getting in and out of small cockpits)
*Automatic movement* (so it doesn't fail just at that critical moment)
*Chronograph* (essential for navigation and range/fuel calculations)
*>60 minute Chrono *(most aircraft have greater than 1hr endurance)
*Large numerals *(sorry Breitling fans, but this is a must!)
*Easy to read *(in all light conditions - Trasers are popular for this reason)
*Buckle strap* (adjustable for wearing over gloves/flightsuits)

Recommendations?


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## Haf (Aug 9, 2009)

How about a Sinn 900 pilot? Sinn Uhren: Modell 900 PILOT


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## zekio (Jun 9, 2010)

the IWC Pilots Watch Chrono (ref. IW371701). its based on the Mark series of IWC, which have been issued to pilots of various countries (British Royal Air Force as well as by several other airborne combat forces (South Africa, Australia and New Zealand)

or

Zenith El Primero HW Chrono (ref. 01.0500.420)


my first choice was the Omega speedmaster pro. but it doesnt meet some of your requirements.
personaly i find numerals on the dial useless. it clutters up the dial, and only helps reading the hour. for the minute you still go by hand position on the markers

wondering why there arent more chronos which use a large chrono minute hand. its alot more usefull for everyday timing. you rarely need to time stuff to the second. not sure how its for pilots
give us back the lemania 5100 :/


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## hidden by leaves (Mar 6, 2010)

Pilots are still using watches for all these things? I'm asking b/c I don't know (I'm not a pilot). I thought, though, that watches for pilots have become similar to what they are for divers; not a primary tool, perhaps a partial/potential backup tool at best... 

What do your other pilot friends wear? Seems like that would be the most obvious group to ask. 

Cheers,
HBL


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

Moved to the more suitable forum.;-)


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## D1JBS (Jun 1, 2010)

I like the Sinn! That's a new one on me. I had been looking at the Bethge & Sohne Humboldt (another limited-run German brand), but these look much more functional. The Corvette 956 is probably more my style - but a great recommendation.


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## D1JBS (Jun 1, 2010)

You are right - a watch isn't a primary tool for flying, but I need the smallest of excuses to expand my watch collection and I've convinced myself that what I really need is a new piece that's fit-for-purpose to go with my new hobby. Don't burst my bubble  

Other 'pilots' (weekend flyers like me) have recommended the following:

Glycine Airman Double 24
Hamilton Khaki x-Wind
Traser H3

I'm leaning toward the Hamilton, but now the Sinn has caught my eye...


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## D1JBS (Jun 1, 2010)

Zekio - a couple of good recommendations.

The IWC is a sound option and the brand has a great pedigree, although I tend to find their pilot chronos a little on the small side at 39mm and if I was going to shell out on my first IWC it would have to be a Portuguese...one day.

Good point about the large chrono. It's really the only feature you actually use regularly and on most automatics it is hidden in a sub-dial, making it hard to read at a glance.


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## hidden by leaves (Mar 6, 2010)

D1JBS said:


> You are right - a watch isn't a primary tool for flying, but I need the smallest of excuses to expand my watch collection


Now you're making sense ;-) Good luck in your search.

Cheers,
HBL


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## flyingpicasso (Jun 28, 2010)

If you like the IWC pilot chrono, but think it's a bit small--take a look at a very similar Steinhart at 44mm. They have another larger still at 47mm. 7750 movement, beautiful hands, awesome blue lume, and I think a superior crown.


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## vintageguy (Mar 22, 2009)

since you're in London, go to Silverman's & look at the CWC chronos. great buys for the money.


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## HappyJack (Mar 31, 2008)

A centre-sweep chrono minute hand is much superior to a 30 minute chrono sub-dial, in terms of readability. Trouble is that Lemania 5100 movements were mostly phased out a few years ago, though Tutima still seem to sell a few watches with them.

I'd suggest a used Lemania 5100 chrono, or a new quartz chrono with the ETA 251.262 movement, which emulates the 5100. Revue Thommen offer the Airspeed Classic Quartz chrono, which uses this movement, and Breitling used it in their M1 Chrono. I used one for flying for many years; and it was excellent, though I've now switched to a used Fortis Cosmonaut LE Chrono with the Lemania. There was also a nice Tutima titanium Air Force Chrono for sale on WUS a few weeks ago, with the Lemania 5100.


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## D1JBS (Jun 1, 2010)

"give us back the lemania 5100 :/'

Apparently the Lemania 5100 is down but not out...It clings to life in the Tutima Military Line.

Tutima Instrument Watches - Official Website


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## tallguy (Feb 14, 2006)

Well, it may not be "classic", but it's the best $200 I've ever spent!
https://www.watchuseek.com/f17/gw-2500b-aviator-452710.html


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## mebiuspower (Sep 24, 2009)

D1JBS said:


> and if I was going to shell out on my first IWC it would have to be a Portuguese...one day.


Amen!!!

I'd go for the Sinn. They make seriously solid tool watches.


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## bydandie (Mar 12, 2008)

Simples, the Bremont Alt1-P


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## Dennis Smith (Feb 15, 2006)

I like a lot of the recomendations so far...but keep in mind the older IWC autos chronos were 39mm and the newer ones are 42mm...So you can really choose what size works for you. I never bought a classic IWC chrono because I need my watches to have 100m wtaer rating as well.

I owned this Bell & Ross Aeronavale for a while. It has everything on your list, but I thought it also did a great job of combining the functions with a lot of beauty.


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## Ron Engels (Apr 29, 2005)

*Speedmaster X-33?*

Let me add a new watch to the list.
It's not a mechanical, and for that reason probably not very popular at the moment, but it's the watch that accompanies me on my flights more then any other (except maybe for Sinn 103 Ti Ar Utc).
It's light, strong, reliable, very accurate, and has more functions then you will ever need. I love the slightly weird but very functional design, and in today's world, where classic mechanical pilot's watches are very much in fashion, it's a pretty original choice too.
The Omega Speedmaster Professional X-33


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## D1JBS (Jun 1, 2010)

*Re: Speedmaster X-33?*

Thanks all,

It's going to be a Tutima Military NATO Ti. Not keen on spending 3-4000 bucks, but they seem to come up in A1 used condition for under 2 grand...the search begins!


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

HappyJack said:


> A centre-sweep chrono minute hand is much superior to a 30 minute chrono sub-dial, in terms of readability. Trouble is that Lemania 5100 movements were mostly phased out a few years ago, though Tutima still seem to sell a few watches with them.
> 
> I'd suggest a used Lemania 5100 chrono, or a new quartz chrono with the ETA 251.262 movement, which emulates the 5100. Revue Thommen offer the Airspeed Classic Quartz chrono, which uses this movement, and Breitling used it in their M1 Chrono. I used one for flying for many years; and it was excellent, though I've now switched to a used Fortis Cosmonaut LE Chrono with the Lemania. There was also a nice Tutima titanium Air Force Chrono for sale on WUS a few weeks ago, with the Lemania 5100.


I would agree, the Lemania 5100 is the best choice, although I think that a manual movement would be better than an automatic because when you wind it up you don't have to mind about the power reserve and you don't need to exercise, which is difficult in a cockpit...

Another good choice would be the Shturmanskie 61659 although it doesn't have the hour subdial for the chrono, which I consider the only drawback of this watch...on the other side, like the 5100 is easy to read because of the red hands:










It also has a second timezone bevel, that is also useful for long travels, in this optic perhaps the best of both worlds is the Mighty Omega Flightmaster:


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## Marianas Diver/Pilot (Nov 4, 2010)

When I got my private certificate at the end of last year, I had worn several of my watches during my training from my seiko diver, a couple of Gs and a timex. I found the best one for the task were my G-shock 5600C with the dual time function and the 24hour countdown timer. I also really liked an ana-digi timex ironman 42 lap with a steel bracelet (same one worn by Will Ferrel in "Stranger than Fiction") for the same reasons, dual time with analog and digital.

My instructor who is a full multi-ATP who had defected from the Czech Republic while he was in the Czech Air Force in the 70s to New Jersey had a couple of no-name eastern European hand wound watches with rotating bezels that he had marked with different colored permanent ink for various things having to do with instrument flying for holding patterns and for his Piper Archer's fuel burn half-times at max. cruise. Dunno what they were but they were neat, maybe Poljot or Sturmanskies? (Sorry for spelling.) They were very heavily used and scratched up.

I found the easiest to see were the Gs especially when comparing my estimated time en-route to my actual time en route written on my nav log forms for x-country flying. I think the watches with slide rule time, speed and distance bezels are cute but very impractical and hard see and use especially for the surprise diversion to an alternate airport during the checkride where you have to estimate distance and time en-route as well as new wind correction angle. Always carry your E6B computer on your kneeboard along with your chart so you won't get embarrassed by fumbling for it in your flight bag in the back seat like I did on my mock checkride 

I stumbled upon this informative link a while back when I was contemplating the same question about what's the ultimate pilot's watch. Maybe you'll enjoy it.

The Best Pilot's Watch - Moonwatcher


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## Marianas Diver/Pilot (Nov 4, 2010)

ooo don't forget the G-shock 5600C and 5600E are also flight qualified by NASA. I do wish that I could have had the 5600C with an eletro-luminescent backlight of the E because of the dual time for zulu. Oh well I could always wear both at the same time


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Marianas Diver/Pilot said:


> I stumbled upon this informative link a while back when I was contemplating the same question about what's the ultimate pilot's watch. Maybe you'll enjoy it.
> 
> The Best Pilot's Watch - Moonwatcher


:-! The modern incarnation, the Timex Ironman 100 lap (extra-large digits) popped up in an earlier discussion of digital pilot watches ... while in quality and no. of features it falls way behind Casio, the user-friendly-interface, display readability from any angle and the second timezone at the push of a button (rather than having to click through a menu) are really neat features. :-!


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## D1JBS (Jun 1, 2010)

cuthbert said:


> Another good choice would be the Shturmanskie 61659


Thanks cuthbert - a great recommendation, since I'm crazy about Russian Chrono's right now and reckon the old Poljot 3133 movement (which you can now find in Sturmanskies) is one of the most under-rated of all time.

Believe it or not, about a week ago I ordered the 61659's sister watch (the 1615654BL 'Navy Ocean Pilot') to tide me over until I can find a decent used Tutima. Not that I needed the excuse - I think this is a very handsome and unique chrono and definitely one of the best Russian's currently available.









Just wish Russia2all would hurry up and get it shipped! Come on Craig!


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

D1JBS said:


> Thanks cuthbert - a great recommendation, since I'm crazy about Russian Chrono's right now and reckon the old Poljot 3133 movement (which you can now find in Sturmanskies) is one of the most under-rated of all time.
> 
> Believe it or not, about a week ago I ordered the 61659's sister watch (the 1615654BL 'Navy Ocean Pilot') to tide me over until I can find a decent used Tutima. Not that I needed the excuse - I think this is a very handsome and unique chrono and definitely one of the best Russian's currently available.
> 
> ...


That's a little too "flashy" for me, however, does your watch have a 31659 caliber or it's a standard 3133?I'm asking because I got a custom order 31659 from Volmax, they went in the basement and found some old 31659s in stock since the early 90s...I love that watch and it's my first choice when I fly VFR, it's a new watch, so I don't have to worry about vintage Sturmies, but it's also a stop seconds, and the red hand is quite visible, in short, it's a REAL pilot's watch.


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## AaaVee (Feb 18, 2010)

Who says there are no numerals on Breitlings?
Breitling is only recognizable watch that I have seen on actual pilots wrist.


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## sweets (Mar 5, 2007)

The clearest 12-hr chrono I have had (which includes about 20 different Lemania 5100s) has to be this










They also did a version of the commando with a bezel, but it is as rare as a rare thing, and will cost more than your budget...

Dave


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## SIUav8er (Jan 2, 2010)

As a guy who makes my living flying, I can say that most watches marketed as "pilot" watches are really just that; marketing hype. Only fools believe they will be calculating fuel burns with their watch. Also, trying to fly while using a wristwatch to countdown time on an approach or holding pattern sounds good, but in practice is really cumbersome and not something I would recommend. Get a basic kitchen timer and hook it to your kneeboard or yoke... or use the aircraft clock. Most of the time, you will have a clock on the instrument panel as it is a required instrument for IFR flying. Youre going to want something that clearly displays the time and if you want to get fancy, having a GMT hand is really helpful. Simple is the name of the game here in my opinion. 

Saying that, a watch which has a clean uncluttered dial which you can quickly see the time at a glance is all you will really need for flying. I prefer my Seiko 007 or Rolex Submariner. I also like the Traser H3 for night flying because of the tritium illumination. Used to have a Citizen Skyhawk, but sold it as it was too cluttered and I NEVER used any of the timers and other toys in real life flying.

I still think the ultra cluttered dials and bezels on a Brietling and Skyhawk are cool pieces, but really are just bling that serves NO real life purpose for pilots.


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## D1JBS (Jun 1, 2010)

Hey Dave,

That's a great looking watch - I especially like black leather straps on the Tutima titanium case.


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## D1JBS (Jun 1, 2010)

You are absolutely right - I've yet to use a wristwatch for anything other than total brakes-off/brakes-on time.

I really just want an accessory to go with my favourite past time and like most of us I need the tiniest excuse to expand my watch collection


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

SIUav8er said:


> As a guy who makes my living flying, I can say that most watches marketed as "pilot" watches are really just that; marketing hype. Only fools believe they will be calculating fuel burns with their watch. Also, trying to fly while using a wristwatch to countdown time on an approach or holding pattern sounds good, but in practice is really cumbersome and not something I would recommend. Get a basic kitchen timer and hook it to your kneeboard or yoke... or use the aircraft clock. Most of the time, you will have a clock on the instrument panel as it is a required instrument for IFR flying. Youre going to want something that clearly displays the time and if you want to get fancy, having a GMT hand is really helpful. Simple is the name of the game here in my opinion.
> 
> Saying that, a watch which has a clean uncluttered dial which you can quickly see the time at a glance is all you will really need for flying. I prefer my Seiko 007 or Rolex Submariner. I also like the Traser H3 for night flying because of the tritium illumination. Used to have a Citizen Skyhawk, but sold it as it was too cluttered and I NEVER used any of the timers and other toys in real life flying.
> 
> I still think the ultra cluttered dials and bezels on a Brietling and Skyhawk are cool pieces, but really are just bling that serves NO real life purpose for pilots.


Well, at the exam for VFR you're suppose to show proficiency with the slide rule they give you and performing all the calculations with that, the bezel of the Skyhawk and the Breitling are basically scale-down version of that; the problem is, at least for me, that they're too small to read, especially if I've to read all the instruments in the panel, take care of the asset of the plane etc...etc...

...but I still like to use the chronograph of my watch!


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## Marianas Diver/Pilot (Nov 4, 2010)

Good point. Slide rule bezels are cute but that's it. Also I've seen some seikos where the numbers either don't match up perfectly or there's a gap between the inner and outer scale. I think the ASA digital flight timer is really neat though. I agree the skx007 or DW-5600 are very clear and easy to read. I do find that a digital readout is a lot easier to get a 'glimpse' at than analog hands. You don't even need to wear a watch for VFR and nor does there need to be a clock mounted on the panel.

I think the funniest aviation wristwatch advertising is this one between Red Bull and Casio:YouTube - Red Bull Air race(Casio G-Shock)

Don't you just love marketing?


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## v76 (Dec 29, 2009)

I paid a bit more than $2k for this, but it's a great watch and well worth it! It meets all your criteria ...



























My Zenith El Primero Class 4, I'm sure you can find pre-owned examples for around $2000 or less.


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## Crusader (Apr 30, 2005)

Marianas Diver/Pilot said:


> You don't even need to wear a watch for VFR and nor does there need to be a clock mounted on the panel.


While it is correct that the FARs don't require a writwatch to be worn, a clock is indeed required in the cockpit even for VFR: see FAR 25.1303, 29.1303, 91.205 und 121.305.


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## cuthbert (Dec 6, 2009)

Crusader said:


> While it is correct that the FARs don't require a writwatch to be worn, a clock is indeed required in the cockpit even for VFR: see FAR 25.1303, 29.1303, 91.205 und 121.305.


Correct without a timepiece you can't fly...actually I always thought that the wristwatch was a backup in the case the clock in the panel would have failed, and in that case better to have a chrono for dead reckoning, I understand in the world of GPS, VOR, ADFs etc... it might be obsolete, but it has a sort of fashion, not marketing, but a sort of "Porcorosso" effect to remember the old days:


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## Marianas Diver/Pilot (Nov 4, 2010)

Ah then I stand corrected  (It's a good thing I wore one, since the clock in the c150 that I did the majority of my training was in-op, also don't remember the J-3 having a clock in it either.)


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## offshoredriver (Jun 4, 2008)

SIUav8er said:


> As a guy who makes my living flying, I can say that most watches marketed as "pilot" watches are really just that; marketing hype. Only fools believe they will be calculating fuel burns with their watch. Also, trying to fly while using a wristwatch to countdown time on an approach or holding pattern sounds good, but in practice is really cumbersome and not something I would recommend. Get a basic kitchen timer and hook it to your kneeboard or yoke... or use the aircraft clock. Most of the time, you will have a clock on the instrument panel as it is a required instrument for IFR flying. Youre going to want something that clearly displays the time and if you want to get fancy, having a GMT hand is really helpful. Simple is the name of the game here in my opinion.
> 
> Saying that, a watch which has a clean uncluttered dial which you can quickly see the time at a glance is all you will really need for flying. I prefer my Seiko 007 or Rolex Submariner. I also like the Traser H3 for night flying because of the tritium illumination. Used to have a Citizen Skyhawk, but sold it as it was too cluttered and I NEVER used any of the timers and other toys in real life flying.
> 
> I still think the ultra cluttered dials and bezels on a Brietling and Skyhawk are cool pieces, but really are just bling that serves NO real life purpose for pilots.


My thought exactly, and I think I have said the very same thing myself on this forum. I also share the opinion that the clean dial is best, and for me it is a tough choice between my Submariner and the Fortis Marinemaster. Both exceptionally clear and easy to read even in low light, and if you really need a timer the bezel will be enough. I don't think I have ever used my wristwatch in the cockpit for anything other than reading the local time. I still like chronos though and have a soft spot for the classic look, hence I also have a Sinn 356 and Fortis Flieger Chrono - both watches are also exceptionally clear and easy to read, and the chrono is useful when timing the dinner, but not too much of a distraction to the dial on either watch.


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## HercDriver (Jun 19, 2006)

v76 said:


> I paid a bit more than $2k for this, but it's a great watch and well worth it! It meets all your criteria ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of my favorite chronos...love those Zeniths! On the list of must haves for me.

Great pics, thanks for sharing.


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## boeing767 (Nov 18, 2009)

D1JBS said:


> I'm in the process of qualifying for my PPL and feel this is the perfect excuse to expand my collection!
> 
> On the subject of pilot's watches there are two distinct camps: Classic aviation-inspired watches and the practical models favoured by working pilots.
> 
> ...


Maybe you can try the Citizen Ecowatch Skyhawk series, it doesn't meet al your requirements but, I used the previous version of this watch for many years now (also flight related). The watch is primairy designed for flight navigation purposes and it works very well. The only problem is that the numbers are a bit smaller and sometimes difficult to read if you are flying in an area with turbulence. The watch is available with a leather strap or with steel or titanium.
The version I use is very strong and survived rugh turbulence and g-forces without problems  
The latest versions are also equipt with atomic radio controlled accurancy. A good option in my point of view


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## UTC-8 (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm a pilot and I agree that the pilot watch is not really used as a primary tool any longer. So, these are my requirements for a pilot watch:


Visible or easily read UTC (GMT)
Active Illumination (h3 vials) or big button to activate light
2nd time zone (1 extra is enough, who needs 23 time zones, I can only be in one at a time). I want to have takeoff and destination timezone or overnight and home programmed.

If you don't have any money to spend after sinking it all into the pilot certificate, the options are limited, I think some of the G's will meet this criteria. To me the ultimate watch would be something like a Rolex GMT Master IIC with trit vials.


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## rhst1 (Mar 19, 2009)

*Re: Speedmaster X-33?*

Great watch! My only criticism is the font of the digital readout. It seems a bit to "thin." Cuts down on readability and aesthetics.


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