# Buying a Zeitwerk Luminous "Phantom"



## adcsrvv (May 21, 2015)

Hey all, been trying to find out more information on the beautiful Zeitwerk Luminous, the "Phantom". Am interested in purchasing one, but worried about finding one that's real, in good condition, and at the right price. Maybe I'm not searching the right terms, but I've had trouble finding details about this watch (here, or elsewhere online). Looks like a limited edition of 100.

What would be the best way to go about trying to purchase this watch? I've never had to track down something so elusive...


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## rehreh (Jan 31, 2014)

Hi,

There actually happens to be one coming up in the June 3rd Christie's Important Watches auction. Sale #3429 Lot #2709. It was featured on last week's Bring a Loupe by Hodinkee.

Here is the link: A. LANGE & SÖHNE. A VERY RARE AND FINE PLATINUM LIMITED EDITION WRISTWATCH WITH DIGITAL TIME DISPLAY, POWER RESERVE AND HACK FEATURE | SIGNED A. LANGE & SÖHNE, GLASHÜTTE I/SA, LANGE ZEITWERK LUMINOUS MODEL, NO. 80/100, REF. 140.035, MOVEMENT NO. 86'8

I have seen these in the metal before - truly a special piece. Good luck!

-rehreh


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

rehreh said:


> Hi,
> 
> There actually happens to be one coming up in the June 3rd Christie's Important Watches auction. Sale #3429 Lot #2709. It was featured on last week's Bring a Loupe by Hodinkee.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forums!


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## Babka (Aug 11, 2012)

This watch is a real gem and quite hard to find. I have seen it in the metal and tried it on. It is a winner in my books for sure. I would check the collector's forum at Purists and eBay. But make sure the seller has a great reputation and, if possible, buy in person. Show us pics if and when you find one!


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## tyler2014 (Aug 31, 2015)

Hey adcsrvv, did you find that "Phantom" that you were looking for? I may could offer some assistance with this.

Feel free to let me know. I can give you some contact information if you are still in the market.


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## Reinhard Immanuel (Oct 25, 2015)

Wish you luck. This is one of those watches that only rarely to be seen - but once in a while... POP!


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## carpentk37 (Sep 19, 2013)

There's one on eBay now and I also know a Lange boutique that has one. I can't point you in that direction if still interested.


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## adlee9 (Jun 1, 2009)

Hi carpetk37,

I'd be interested to know more about that Zeitwork luminous at the lange boutique, could you PM me please?


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## alitumbi (Jul 13, 2016)

carpentk37 said:


> There's one on eBay now and I also know a Lange boutique that has one. I can't point you in that direction if still interested.[
> I'm interested on the boutique piece, can you assist in guiding which boutique.


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## onkyo (Oct 21, 2008)

carpentk37 said:


> There's one on eBay now and I also know a Lange boutique that has one. I can't point you in that direction if still interested.


I think you are referring to Lange 1 lumen. Or grande Lange 1 lumen. These are long sold out.


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## Bittereclipse (Jul 31, 2016)

Theres a new Grand Lange 1 moon phase coming out this year, maybe try your luck for that one with an authorized dealer .


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## onkyo (Oct 21, 2008)

Bittereclipse said:


> Theres a new Grand Lange 1 moon phase coming out this year, maybe try your luck for that one with an authorized dealer .


I heard they are all accounted for ..... I could be wrong though.


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## se7enfold (Oct 23, 2013)

same here


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## Groenie (Aug 12, 2017)

I am also looking for a Lange Zeitwerk Phantom. Did you manage to get one? If so, what did you end up paying? I have seen several advertised at USD 140k and up, which seems like a lot to me. Anyone a suggestion for a more "reasonable" price?


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## CFR (May 13, 2006)

All of them I've seen have sold for over $100K. Have you ever seen one in person? Personally, I don't like it at all. I think it's the least attractive of all the "see-through" Langes. I prefer a regular ZW, or -- if you like the transparent look -- the Grand Lange 1 Moonphase Lumen (hard to find but much less expensive than a ZW Phantom). In fact, for the price of a ZW Phantom, you can probably get a Grand Lange 1 Moonphase Lumen AND a regular Zeitwerk! Of course, everyone has their preferences. I'm mentioning this just in case you haven't seen this watch in person. Good luck!


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## Groenie (Aug 12, 2017)

Thanks very much for your answer CFR. It's actually apt. I started with the Lange Moon lumen and although it is a STUNNING piece, got swayed by the regular ZW. The jumping hours/minutes are just so special. 
Having said that I was taken aback by the price difference between them. Approx $75k for the moon phase and north of 140k for the ZW. I can wrap my head around 100k for a ZW phantom due to its rarity (apart from the fact that that is still a big number, all being relative). 
This is exactly why I posted as was wondering if it's a glitch or whether the "market" price is in fact above 140k...?


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## CFR (May 13, 2006)

Sure thing. All we know for sure is that several sellers are presently asking above $140K for the ZW "Phantom," and these watches seem to be readily available at that price. Such rapid price appreciation is pretty anomalous for Lange's LEs, especially in recent years. 

The idea that a ZW "Phantom" costs more than a ZW Striking Time in PT (also an LE of 100) is astounding to me. Since you like the ZW in general, what are your thoughts about the Striking Time?


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## Groenie (Aug 12, 2017)

Agree on your view re pricing. I reiterate that I would expect them to trade at about 100k. 

Re ST: I like size to be as close to 40 mm as possible. The ZW is larger and the ST is larger (again). Getting too large for me. Personal thing and aware that to others 40 mm is small. 

Is that your moon phase lumen in the pic?


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## CFR (May 13, 2006)

Understood. The ZW is a chunky family -- they're thick -- and they all wear big. You probably know that that Phantom is 41.9mm. I have a thin wrist (6"/155mm circumference), so larger watches look ridiculous on me, but some of them so cool that I don't care (because if I cared, I'd never get to enjoy them). I sometimes wear an Omega Ploprof, which looks like I'm under house arrest or wearing shackles.


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