# So if you can't wear a PO with a suit, what can you?



## Sean R (Oct 2, 2009)

Here's a fun little topic. Are dive watches like the Omega Planet Ocean and the Rolex Submariner "appropriate" accompaniments to suits? Is there something about a Rolex sport watch (Sub, GMT, Explorer) that just makes it suitable for everything whereas an Omega stays confined to the sporty category? I'd like to hear some thoughts on this


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## KatGirl (Jun 12, 2009)

:-s:-s:-s:-s:think::think::think::think: o|


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## CDavis7M (Aug 23, 2011)

You most certainly can wear a PO with a suit. It's not like its a Casio G-Shock, which, if you pull it off right, can still be worn with a suit, just not to court.


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## Hall (Jul 24, 2008)

wear mine with a suit every day.


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## jaytaylor (Mar 25, 2008)

Both the PO and sub look at home with shorts or a suit, sports watches such as the sub have been worn with suits for many decades, cant say the same about the PO simply because it was born in 2005 (may be wrong), the PO looks just as good with a suit.

Popular culture shows that the movie character Bond, suits both the PO and Sub.



Sean R said:


> Is there something about a Rolex sport watch (Sub, GMT, Explorer) that just makes it suitable for everything whereas an Omega stays confined to the sporty category?


Can not say I agree with this and it has not been my observation.


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## mjrchabot (Apr 5, 2011)

Who says a PO can't be worn with a suit? I wear a suit everyday and the PO is in the rotation at least 2 days/week. It's all about "accessorizing" my friends...as long as the watch matches the colours of the suit, shirt, and tie, then it fits!


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## baronrojo (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm going to be the forum bad guy on this one.

No...dive watches...or sport watches...or anything other than a proper dress watch should not be worn with a suit. I know the majority think otherwise and current trends dictate that it's acceptable. However...I'm one of those that follows these 'dress rules' strictly just because that's the way I am. I went to private schools where I wore a uniform and then wore a military uniform for a few years...so I'm extremely picky about what goes with what.

In reality though anyone can wear whatever with a suit...doesn't matter at all. However...if you truly want to be strict about it...and follow the rules of proper dress only a dress watch can be worn.

With that said...this is a nice excuse to pick up a Deville.


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## Chibatastic (Mar 29, 2010)

As long as it fits under your shirt cuff then it's cool to wear dive watches with a suit.


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## Mystro (Oct 26, 2008)

I wear both of these with a suit. I do own the company so to be fair I don't have to wear a suit. 
I will say, I wear a divers watch everywhere, swanky industry parties to some of the best reasurants in the world.


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## lamboalex (Sep 10, 2011)

To each their own. I won't say it's appropriate or not to wear these with a suit. BUT I also am of the idea that only a dress watch should be worn with a suit. The divers and (gulp) g shocks don't match well IMO.


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## vjb.knife (Feb 11, 2006)

This is such a simple problem to solve. If you can't wear a PO with a suit, then throw away your suits.


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## 23fengshui (Aug 21, 2007)

A long time ago, I read in an article about David Boies that said he wears a g-shock type watch to court, and he keeps it wrapped around the outside of his suit sleeve so he can easily check the time. 

The rules of suit wearing are pretty relaxed nowadays. You know your boundaries and what your social dealings require. So I can't really tell anyone what will or won't work. But I will personally try to stay within the original rules because I respect them and find them interesting to learn about.


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## BHL (Dec 26, 2010)

James Bond wears PO with suit all the time. 'Nuff said...



Sean R said:


> Here's a fun little topic. Are dive watches like the Omega Planet Ocean and the Rolex Submariner "appropriate" accompaniments to suits? Is there something about a Rolex sport watch (Sub, GMT, Explorer) that just makes it suitable for everything whereas an Omega stays confined to the sporty category? I'd like to hear some thoughts on this


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## nuovorecord (Nov 27, 2007)

23fengshui said:


> The rules of suit wearing are pretty relaxed nowadays.


...or they've simply been lost to the mists of time.


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## teeritz (May 27, 2006)

If we are to follow the rules of proper dress, then no, a dive watch would be the wrong choice with a suit. 
However, given that...

-'casual Friday' now pretty much extends to every day of the week (sadly)
-and that 75% of men I see on my morning train aren't even wearing a _tie_ to work, 
-and the remaining 20% I see on the city streets are wearing track pants and hooded, zip-up (yeah, _zip-up!_) Everlast tops,

...then I would say that wearing a dive watch with a suit is a very minor fashion transgression. Also, what do we say about men of the past ('60s, '70s & '80s, before owning a wristwatch had so much advertising, winding boxes and discussion forums attached to them), who only owned ONE watch like a Rolex or Tudor Sub, a Seamaster 300 or Bulova Snorkel 600 and wore them everywhere, no matter what else they wore?

And then there's the Bond Connection. Yes, it's a tenuous connection, but one that is by now firmly fixed in Bond lore and Pop Culture history, and is often referred to in men's fashion magazines. I recall one issue of GQ (I think it was) where the Q&A page featured a question regarding what watch to wear with a suit. The Style Guy (and I got a LOT of respect for Mr O'Brien, btw) answered that a dive watch was a fashion _faux pas_ with a suit. One hundred pages further along in the same issue was a big fashion spread showing men in suits wearing all manner of wristwatches _including _dive watches. I can't remember which watch it was, but it was one of the modern Holy Trinity of higher-priced dive watches like a Planet Ocean, or Submariner or IWC Aquatimer. 
So that, plus the fact that film-Bond wears a dive watch, was good enough for me. Always has been. Heck, I was wearing a two-tone TAG Heuer 1000 Series dive watch back in 1987. With suits. 
So, my answer is 'yes', you can wear a dive watch with a suit. Like this dude from those Bond fan fictions somewhere here. (;-))










And then there's this guy. I have dubbed him the 'Patron Saint of NATO Straps', millionnaire philanthropist, Mr Arki Busson.










I've mentioned him before in Dixan's "Fun With NATOS" thread from a couple of years ago (Already? We should resurrect this thread, Dix!) and it appears that he's still at it, bless him.

Here's the Close-Up;










Looks like he's got hisself a Project X Rolex GMT II with Ceramic bezel on a Khaki/Olive green NATO. Sure, he ain't wearing a tie (_you_ tell him to put one on!), but the watch doesn't look out of place. Okay, it's not strictly a dive watch, but it has a rotating bezel, so, to me, it has a dive watch look.

I say you _can_ wear a dive watch with a suit. My only requisite is that you don't wear a HUGE dive watch with a suit...unless you're a huge guy.

P.S.- Yeah, I know my percentages didn't add up to 100%. I left out that exceptional 5% of men who still care about how they present themselves and still make the effort. I raise my Old Fashioned and tip my hat to you all.
Mad men one and all.
Rant over.


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## FrankinCA (Aug 22, 2007)

*Yes, you can>>>*

The dress code came into effect decades ago. If dive watches existed back then (30's-40's), people would have worn them. Times have changed.

I've worn dive, GMT's and chronographs with suits.


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## NMGE17 (Feb 9, 2006)

Not a problem in my book. I wear my divers with smart work clothes (not always a suit) every day and it is common amongst those I meet at work.

Nigel


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## PeteJ (Jan 5, 2012)

*But of course you can....*

You can wear whatever you like. Is it a faux pas? Well, strictly speaking maybe it is, but it's not like wearing track suit bottoms to your own wedding. I think the modern application of the rules of dress allow for some flexibility.

Somim conclusion - can you wear a big dive watch with a suit? Of course you can. Yo just have to be a bit manly! Let's face it, those unwilling to wear a dive watch with a suit in 2012 might be more at home wearing a corset!!! ;-)


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## Taswell (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: But of course you can....*

I want to know where I can check these rules that I hear about.
can anyone point me to them?

Somehow I don't think so.


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## HHHH (Mar 20, 2011)

I think we're all quoting our own unspoken rules of formal attire, whilst overlooking the context.

For what reason are you wearing said suit?

My national sales director closed the biggest deal of the company wearing a TW Steel.

On the flip side, where I come from, wearing a DD to a funeral is considered slightly rude, as you're supposed to dress down during a funeral.

However, if you're attending high-tea where etiquette is paramount, then I would agree with baronrojo. Deviate and die.

So, before we pass judgement, what are you trying to achieve when you put on that suit? The answer to whether a diver is an appropriate accessory will naturally be answered.



baronrojo said:


> I'm going to be the forum bad guy on this one.
> 
> No...dive watches...or sport watches...or anything other than a proper dress watch should not be worn with a suit. I know the majority think otherwise and current trends dictate that it's acceptable. However...I'm one of those that follows these 'dress rules' strictly just because that's the way I am. I went to private schools where I wore a uniform and then wore a military uniform for a few years...so I'm extremely picky about what goes with what.
> 
> ...


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## MickyD (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: But of course you can....*



Taswell said:


> I want to know where I can check these rules that I hear about.
> can anyone point me to them?
> 
> Somehow I don't think so.


You obviously haven't been on Styleforum 
(can be a very educational place, but can walk a very fine line between informational and retentive...)


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## teeritz (May 27, 2006)

*Re: But of course you can....*

This is one book that's been around since the '70s, I think, and it's been a classic reference on the subject.










Then there's;










And also, for those who want to read it all off a computer screen rather than paper;

www.mrporter.com

www.thesartorialist.com 

The Rules of Proper Dress are like recipes. You can follow them to the letter or you can play around with them. The results may vary, but they are there to provide the basis for how a guy should dress. Although, a lot of folks on The Sartorialist website take some great liberties with The Rules.

I don't walk out the front door wearing a track suit unless I'm heading to the gym or going under deep cover to infiltrate a Russian drug syndicate. These days, there's a greater likelihood of me doing the latter than the former. ;-)


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## GaryF (Dec 18, 2009)

The way I see it there are two reasons to commit a sartorial _faux pas. _Ignorance and idiosyncrasy.

People are going to judge you whichever category your particular quirk falls into but the ignorant won't know and the idiosyncratic won't care. Educate yourself by all means but, whatever you choose to wear, make sure it isn't a straitjacket.


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## mondodec (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: But of course you can....*

Except within a fairly small strata, be-suited men can wear a carriage clock on their wrists and get away with it - up to a point! It's good that things have loosened up and we're more casual in places that it's good to be casual.

But.... and I can't speak for every western country, in the higher levels of the business strata and "polite society" in most Western countries etiquette and dress code do count, except when they don't. In my professional travels on several continents I've encountered those who lamented at the price they had to pay for failing to meet the code: the guy who didn't get promoted to a very senior position in a German multi-national because his CEO noticed he used a butter knife instead of the fish knife at a formal dinner and an individualist working for an Australian merchant bank that thought his talent meant the he could wear sports jackets to work in favour of suits and get to manage the Big Tuna wealth accounts, to name two. So, it depends on the context and circumstances whether to exercise a choice to comply with a code or practice, whether than is wearing a day watch with a suit or the acceptable uniform of the group.

I can't recall seeing many many top execs or members of the D & S brigade (doyens and scions) wearing tool or dive watches on their wrists. (OK Richard Branson maybe, a few squillionaires whose believe their wealth allows them the right to transcend mere mortal concerns and, of course, the media sluts who regularly populate the celebrity and fashion pages) ...otherwise we usually see bespoke written all over them and a certain uniformity in their choices of timepiece.

I would argue that there is still a place for a day watch (utility, smart and understated -think DeVille Prestige) and a dress watch (precious metal and normally reserved for morning and dinner jacket occasions). It just depends on the circumstances: what you're trying to say about yourself and to whom you're saying it. For most people who aspire to be Grand Poo-Bahs, I suspect that they 'groom' themselves for the role and that may include taking on the customs, mores and codes of the very group or strata in which they wish to dominate.

When I hear guys say they're not into all this "conformity sh.. and I'll wear what I like when I like", the first thing I usually do is take a good hard look at them. Strangely, very few radiate real non-conformity. They're usually wearing their pants down around their arse (like all the other dudes their age are); or they're slavishly following the current footwear trend; or they're sporting the latest hideous bouffant: or the fashionable number of buttons on their suits; maybe they're following the latest sport and tool watch trend (the biggest watch trend in the West at the moment) and yet they often don't connect that they're following a code :-s Perhaps the only difference with fashion codes is that they're not as embedded or durable as some other codes of so-called polite society?

So, I would argue that it's perfectly acceptable to wear a Pam on your forehead or don board shorts and sing "I'm in the money" at the funeral of a benefector, but it can be rather useful to consider one's audience.

Cheers

Desmond


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## baronrojo (Jul 14, 2010)

*Re: But of course you can....*



teeritz said:


> www.thesartorialist.com
> 
> The Rules of Proper Dress are like recipes. You can follow them to the letter or you can play around with them. The results may vary, but they are there to provide the basis for how a guy should dress. Although, a lot of folks on The Sartorialist website take some great liberties with The Rules.


The Sartorialist...one of the best websites around. You can get inspired for a lot of changes in your wardrobe by browsing here. The aforementioned Style Forum is another one (WUS but for clothes...however there are watch threads all the time) and Andy's Trad Forum as well (more traditional approach...think All-American prep and MadMen).

Seriously...if any of you feel like stepping out of your comfort zone by making a few changes to your wardrobe these websites are the ones to go to.

For the watch-centrics think of it as accessorizing your watch with clothes.


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## hlbrem (Jan 11, 2012)

*Re: But of course you can....*

why cant diver watch wear with a suit??? are you serious??? look James Bond, he always wears a suit and do the watches look not suitable with his suit??? i dont think so.....at least for SMP and PO


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## iinsic (Feb 18, 2010)

*Re: But of course you can....*

Well, no one has mentioned it yet, so I will: Prince William of Wales, second in line to the English throne (I don't say British throne because I'm one of those Scottish exiles who long for an independence plebiscite, perhaps in 2014, the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn), wears an Omega SMP with _everything_, including formal wear. Understand that this young man grew up with valets holding his pants for him as he put them on, who fastened his buttons, knotted his ties, etc. The English are pretty fastidious about proper dress and their future king is expected to lead by example. And his example is a dive watch all the time (admittedly given to him by his late mother not that long before she died, but the sartorially rigid are notoriously unsentimental).

As someone who has a fairly intimate acquaintance with the English language (compounded by 30 years married to a newspaper editor), I have observed - oftentimes with chagrin - the gradual changes (okay, _deterioration_ ;-)) that has taken place over my lifetime in spoken and written English. I consider that to be of much greater concern than the relaxation of sartorial rules around which watch goes with a suit (particularly since those rules not so long ago required a waistcoat, proper fob chain and pocket watch).

As already observed, context is very important. I would be much more concerned about being disrespectful in certain circumstances than I would about sartorial correctness.

Rob


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## smarty62 (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: But of course you can....*

How about this one?










... a great-great-grand-grand .... pa of the PO :-d:-d . It's my 165.0002 Omega Seamaster from 1962 with the 552 movement :-!.

Greets
Gerhard


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## Brisman (Mar 10, 2011)

*Re: But of course you can....*



Taswell said:


> I want to know where I can check these rules that I hear about.
> can anyone point me to them?
> 
> Somehow I don't think so.


Hey Taswell, do you think you could wear a dress watch with thongs and stubbies? BTW to avoid confusion. "thongs" in Oz are flip flops not the other things and "stubbies" are shorts.

:-d:-d :think: :rodekaart Sorry, didn't mean to hijack. :rodekaart


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## Mystro (Oct 26, 2008)

I have been to several swanky parties with famous politicians, actors, and musicians. Since I have always been a watch guy, I notice other watches. I ether see no watches or sport style watches from Rolex, etc... Normally, the flashier the watch is more common.
Who really follows these antiquated ideas? People at the top of their game set their own standards. Maybe because I am in the USA but even at a few formal teas I have been to, the time piece on your wrist is the least of the dress code infractions I have observed. 
A man can really set the tone if he is wearing a good pair shoes and a nice watch. In my circle of the world, a really good pair of shoes and a nice watch will get you through most social events.


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## hbombkid (Sep 10, 2011)

Of course you know my stance as the pictures show. Now how many of you think I have it set way to casual? I have the SS bracelet and I change them pretty frequently, but did not even think about changing it last night and then rocking it with a suit. Question is... Can the strap be worn with a suit?


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## jwalther (Dec 31, 2006)

Can you? Yes. Should you? No. There is a lengthy thread stickied on the Public Forum addressing this topic.


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## Mystro (Oct 26, 2008)

Doesn't Prince William always wear his SMP diving watch with a suit?? One of the most photographed couple of the Royal family and he doesn't know he shouldn't wear a diving watch with a suit??:roll:







Kinda blows a hole in the not wearing a dive watch with a suit doesn't it?


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

Can, but probably shouldn't. 

I do, but probably shouldn't, wear chronographs, NATOs, dive watches, et al, to work (business casual), but I do, with or without a tie. I don't have a serious dress watch in the rotation, so clearly it doesn't bother me much.


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## George Riemer (Mar 9, 2008)

One issue we haven't really addressed here is straps. While I can see a nice diver with business wear (in Miami, it says "Yes, I'm at this budget meeting all morning, but I have snorkel gear in the trunk of my car."), I would restrict it to a stainless bracelet. I don't think you can pull off a rubber strap, even the nice PO strap that looks like stitched leather.

*hbombkid*, I guess that's your answer from my perspective. YMMV. For reference, I am a lawyer who works with finance types. I typically wear one of the Aqua Terra's to work, a DeVille hour vision for most court occasions, and sometimes a Bond 300m for casual Friday. The PO has made it in on a couple of Fridays, or on days when I am leaving early for vacation. On the bracelet, of course.


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

Mystro said:


> I have been to several swanky parties with famous politicians, actors, and musicians. Since I have always been a watch guy, I notice other watches. I ether see no watches or sport style watches from Rolex, etc... Normally, the flashier the watch is more common.
> Who really follows these antiquated ideas? People at the top of their game set their own standards. Maybe because I am in the USA but even at a few formal teas I have been to, the time piece on your wrist is the least of the dress code infractions I have observed.
> A man can really set the tone if he is wearing a good pair shoes and a nice watch. In my circle of the world, a really good pair of shoes and a nice watch will get you through most social events.


It's all part of the breakdown of formality in the US; with which I am fine, mostly. I do draw the line at looking like a slob 24/7, which many people in my generation seem to revel in (it's all "LOL I'm wearing board shorts 2 dinner 2nite!" and Twitter and other nonsense). Wearing a sports watch with a suit is a far cry from dressing like a slob, yes; I'm not equating the two by any means, just saying that it's part of the idea that rules and ideas of fashion are no longer to be followed.

Now, at work, I wear my uniform--shirt, slacks, shoes. I try to express myself by using three different accessories. Tie. I don't have to wear one, but I do on occasion, and they are nice. Watch. Few people here wear watches, but I wear a different one everyday, on a variety of colorful straps and bands, including rubber, leather, NATO, and even an occasional bracelet. Shoes. I wear loafers, which sets me apart from the boring oxford crowd, but I do wear nice ones (well, my everyday shoes are Kenneth Coles, nothing special, but I am searching for something nice). I believe something like a watch or tie or shoes can make you stick out against the suited workforce. Now, mind you, that can be in a positive or negative light.


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## Matty01 (Sep 6, 2011)

If I only had a po, I would happily wear it with a suit, hut heres my order of preference

























Cheers

Matt


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## Raza (Jul 21, 2010)

George Riemer said:


> One issue we haven't really addressed here is straps. While I can see a nice diver with business wear (in Miami, it says "Yes, I'm at this budget meeting all morning, but I have snorkel gear in the trunk of my car."), I would restrict it to a stainless bracelet. I don't think you can pull off a rubber strap, even the nice PO strap that looks like stitched leather.
> 
> *hbombkid*, I guess that's your answer from my perspective. YMMV. For reference, I am a lawyer who works with finance types. I typically wear one of the Aqua Terra's to work, a DeVille hour vision for most court occasions, and sometimes a Bond 300m for casual Friday. The PO has made it in on a couple of Fridays, or on days when I am leaving early for vacation. On the bracelet, of course.


You know, I'm the opposite. A bracelet really sticks out to me, for whatever reason. I'd wear a rubber or NATO before a bracelet with a suit.


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## StoneRoses (Jan 5, 2012)

The looks is not the problem but the size sometimes is.
I can't fit 45mm PO or POC under some shirt sleeves especially the cufflink sleeves.


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## Zidane (Feb 11, 2006)

Mystro said:


> Doesn't Prince William always wear his SMP diving watch with a suit?? One of the. Most photographed couple of the Royal family and he doesn't know he shouldn't wear a diving watch with a suit??:roll: Kinda blows a hole in the not wearing a dive watch with a suit doesn't it?


A mid-size Bond Seamaster looks fine with a suit. However, there's a big difference between an thin, understated dive watch (i.e., Bond Seamaster) and an XL PO. I can't see a situation where an XL *orange* PO would ever look acceptable with a suit.


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## Mystro (Oct 26, 2008)

Thats a personal call at best.. Are you telling me if Prince William's mother gave him a 45mm PO, (which she probably would have had it been available) instead of a SMP , he wouldn't be wearing it??



Zidane said:


> A mid-size Bond Seamaster looks fine with a suit. However, there's a big difference between an thin, understated dive watch (i.e., Bond Seamaster) and an XL PO. I can't see a situation where an XL *orange* PO would ever look acceptable with a suit.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

re: the Prince William thing.

Call me a cynic but a bit of me suspects that his choice of watch for public occasions is partly because that is the watch his mother gave to him. It serves the dual function of reminding people of his mother (who was loved more than any other royal with possibly the exception of the late Queen Mother) as well as show what a loving son he is.
It has, in effect, become part of his public appearance uniform.


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## ChronoScot (Oct 25, 2010)

drunken monkey said:


> re: the Prince William thing.
> 
> Call me a cynic but a bit of me suspects that his choice of watch for public occasions is partly because that is the watch his mother gave to him. It serves the dual function of reminding people of his mother (who was loved more than any other royal with possibly the exception of the late Queen Mother) as well as show what a loving son he is.
> It has, in effect, become part of his public appearance uniform.


I'm not so sure about that. I have only ever heard of him wearing a Seamaster through watch sites and fora and, while not being a reader of Hello! magazine or whichever other celebrity rags, I have never seen a mention of his watch outside these circles. I would be surprised if a on WIS would know that the watch is from his mother. I don't think he wears it to send any kind of signal.


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## iinsic (Feb 18, 2010)

drunken monkey said:


> re: the Prince William thing.
> 
> Call me a cynic but a bit of me suspects that his choice of watch for public occasions is partly because that is the watch his mother gave to him. It serves the dual function of reminding people of his mother (who was loved more than any other royal with possibly the exception of the late Queen Mother) as well as show what a loving son he is.
> It has, in effect, become part of his public appearance uniform.


I was hinting at that in my earlier post. The English royals have interesting customs when it comes to fashion. If either Charles or William appeared at a public occasion in their official capacity sporting facial hair, they'd be expected to maintain that style the remainder of their lives. I agree that William's wearing of that watch is a personal statement by him. However, because of royal customs, it also has the indirect effect of placing the royal imprimatur on the wearing of (tasteful) sports watches in suits or formal attire. Thus, those who look to the royal family for proper conservative fashion guidance - and Lord knows the royal family is pretty conservative when it comes to matters of fashion - could interpret William's choice as an endorsement of sorts.

That said, I also agree with Nick. If Diana had gifted him with, say, a PloProf or a PO XL (had it been available at the time) rather than a mid-sized SMP, I doubt the Queen would have allowed him to wear it as ubiquitously as he does the SMP. What we think of as his personal choice with regard to personal appearance always must pass muster with his grandmother. That's just the way they do things.

So his wearing of the SMP - with the assumption of the Queen's tacit approval - should be inferred as an acceptance of modest sport watches on dressy occasions. Those outside the Commonwealth can feel free to disregard this. ;-)


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

I posted my personal rules of dress in the Public forum but here they are again for anyone interested...

1. All leathers must match basic color and be as close as possible, watch strap, belt, & shoes, e.g., brown with brown or black with black. There are no other colors. This applies to all levels of dress from the beach to black tie.
2. Big chunky dive watches are a no-go with a suit. Submariner types and my 39mm TAG Link with it's unassuming polished bezel are not too over sized to "Suit Up!" watch dials must be subdued, no bright colors with suits.
3. Nylon straps are perfectly acceptable with jeans and casual shirt. Not allowed with a tie unless you work for MI6. Color rules are looser but still apply.
4. I do not care about my pen beyond it being black ink. One must be available at all times. If not on your person, very near. Yes, you may borrow mine but you may have to remove it from your neck, Casino style.
5. I am in the US Army Infantry and we do not carry umbrellas unless holding one for a lady or elderly veteran. Non-Vet old men have to carry their own. This rule is set in stone. Overcoats are allowed with suits only. Any other outfit gets wet like a real man.
6. Tailored suits\jackets are preferred but so are 1950s Ferrari's. Both are financial hurdles that may be insurmountable to everyone. Your suit should fit if off the rack. I have one, tailored suit, not Ferrari and that is about all I plan to spend on that for a while.
7. Learn to tie a tie. I will no longer tie them for grown men. Yes, this comes up every now and then in my circle of friends and colleagues. Clip on bow ties are also verboten. Concerning bow ties, Google is your friend, use it.
8. Suits can only be black, gray, brown\khaki, or dark blue. Green is, of course, only OK as part of a uniform. Any other color is not a suit. Pin stripes are allowed, just not on my suits.
9. Shoes worn with suits should have leather soles. Rubber is not allowed.
10. Except for ties and PT belts, no cloth part of your clothing should ever be shiny.
11. Nothing but your socks or undershirt should be tight. You work out, I get it, now go put on a shirt that fits.

This is where my friends and I really disagree but they apparently lack self respect...

12. A male over the age of 13 should not wear shorts outside of his own home unless he is near a body of water at least as large as a pool for an extended period of time, say an hour, minimum. Yes, it is hot outside. What does that have to do with wearing pants with legs on them. There is a waiver for sporting activities like running, playing team sports, etc. but change clothes when finished. There are no waivers for hot tubs as everyone knows that you should be naked in a hot tub.
13. The same rules apply to flip-flops. When I am at the supermarket in July I should not see a grown man's toes, ever. No water, no flip-flops or sandals, ever.

Personally, I'd wear a PO with a suit under certain conditions, no orange, numbers or bezel, bracelet or leather strap given that the strap cannot have any contrast stitching.

These threads remind me of a high school graduation ceremony that I attended about ten years ago. Appropriate dress is relative to where you are and who you are with...

My girlfriend at the time's sister was graduating from a high school in the North Atlanta suburbs, Forsyth County, for those familiar with the area. I met my GF's family there and they were quite surprised that I showed up in a suit. My thoughts were "Who wouldn't wear a suit to this type of event"? I could not understand why everyone was making a big deal regarding my clothes until we went into the ceremony and I noticed that out of easily 500 people, I was the only one wearing a suit. I noticed a lot of "wife beaters" and flannel shirts with the sleeves cut off. The real fun began when they called out the names of the graduates. There was a pre-ceremony brief that asked the attendees not to clap or cheer until all of the students walk up and get their diploma. Of course, not ten names into the list the cheers started as did the canned air horns and whistles. Not whistles as in your lips but whistles that a football referee would use. This lasted almost two hours. I quickly shrunk down as low as I could out of embarrassment for the human race.

I suppose my point is that I doubt anyone there noticed my watch or whether it was appropriate to wear with a suit. Sometimes it matters and sometimes it does not.

RS


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## iinsic (Feb 18, 2010)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> When I am at the supermarket in July I should not see a grown man's toes, ever. No water, no flip-flops or sandals, ever.


Rusty, this site is for you: Random Photos | www.peopleofwalmart.com - Humor - Daily Wal-Creatures 2 :-d

Rob


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## Zidane (Feb 11, 2006)

Mystro said:


> Thats a personal call at best.. Are you telling me if Prince William's mother gave him a 45mm PO, (which she probably would have had it been available) instead of a SMP , he wouldn't be wearing it??


If if was a fifth, we'd all be drunk.

PS - It makes absolutely no sense to say that "she probably would have had it been available". THAT is a personal call at best.


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## andy-g (Feb 17, 2010)

I don't own a suit much to my wife's dispair , or a PO (yet) :-d:-d

But when I'm out and about , the main thing I'm looking at is peoples wrists to see if they have a nice watch :-!

And I think PO's look great with a suit |>


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## 425Ranger (Aug 27, 2007)

I've tried, and I don't like it. Weather or not it is fashionable is of little consequence to me personally. I find that my older Seiko Perp Calender (thin and 40mm) wears much better with my suits for court etc... Plenty of people in my line of work either try too hard (46mm Breitlings) or care not a whit (Black abused Gshocks). I am guilty of the former in the past (long past I hope).

I think a nice conservative thin watch with a leather band is a perfect suit companion. I'll even go further, quartz is fine for such a watch, grab and go simplicity that disappears on the wrist. This AP is an excellent example....









I wears great and it's only 7-8mm thick.

My next dress watch will be along the lines of ....























........Wear what you want, and you'll get the attention you deserve.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

iinsic said:


> Rusty, this site is for you: Random Photos | [url]www.peopleofwalmart.com - Humor - Daily Wal-Creatures 2[/URL] :-d
> 
> Rob


Those pictures are what I see in my nightmares. I'm scarred for life now. Thanks a lot, Rob...

RS


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

*Re: But of course you can....*

I think it looks great with a suit. Plus Bond does it so that's good enough justification for me. Now if I can get my hands on an Aston Martin...


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## reef58 (Jan 15, 2012)

I agree with the Mandals. Drives me nutts seeing guys in sandals. Don't know why just does.



iinsic said:


> Rusty, this site is for you: Random Photos | [url]www.peopleofwalmart.com - Humor - Daily Wal-Creatures 2[/URL] :-d
> 
> Rob


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## lucretius (Mar 23, 2006)

It depends on the look you're after. Just doing normal, run-of-the-mill business in a suit -- no problem. But if it's a board meeting or some other formal event, a traditional dress watch would impress more.


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## jaytaylor (Mar 25, 2008)

Er, we have moved on from the 1950s and no. 12 is more in line with 1880s.



Rusty_Shakleford said:


> I posted my personal rules of dress in the Public forum but here they are again for anyone interested...
> 
> 1. All leathers must match basic color and be as close as possible, watch strap, belt, & shoes, e.g., brown with brown or black with black. There are no other colors. This applies to all levels of dress from the beach to black tie.
> 2. Big chunky dive watches are a no-go with a suit. Submariner types and my 39mm TAG Link with it's unassuming polished bezel are not too over sized to "Suit Up!" watch dials must be subdued, no bright colors with suits.
> ...


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

jaytaylor said:


> Er, we have moved on from the 1950s and no. 12 is more in line with 1880s.


Self respect and class know no date. They are timeless.

RS


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## lucretius (Mar 23, 2006)

LOL! I'll take #12 a step further. Grown men should never wear Speedos, even if near or in water.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

lucretius said:


> LOL! I'll take #12 a step further. Grown men should never wear Speedos, even if near or in water.


Two exceptions on the Speedo clause...

Professional swimmers and grown men wearing said Speedo just to annoy\embarrass his wife. While not a professional swimmer, I have been known to drop trow and produce a bright red Speedo on more than one occasion while enjoying some time at a large lake near my house. The goal is to embarrass my wife in front of her friends to the point that her face gets more red than the obscene swimsuit.

Setting aside one's dignity in the name of humor is always allowed.

RS


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## Mystro (Oct 26, 2008)

I love it. Sounds like something I might do. Ever since I had kids, I have learned not to take myself too seriously.



Rusty_Shakleford said:


> Two exceptions on the Speedo clause...
> 
> Professional swimmers and grown men wearing said Speedo just to annoy\embarrass his wife. While not a professional swimmer, I have been known to drop trow and produce a bright red Speedo on more than one occasion while enjoying some time at a large lake near my house. The goal is to embarrass my wife in front of her friends to the point that her face gets more red than the obscene swimsuit.
> 
> ...


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Mystro said:


> I love it. Sounds like something I might do. Ever since I had kids, I have learned not to take myself too seriously.


My biggest problem with it is the fact that i got one easily two sizes too small. That makes the car ride to the lake very uncomfortable as I have to avoid moving round and making adjustments or my wife will notice and the jig would be up. In hindsight, I should have gotten one that fit a little better...

RS


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## theomegas (Feb 20, 2011)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> Self respect and class know no date. They are timeless.
> 
> RS


Your quantifying someone's self-respect can be influenced by the fact that they're wearing shorts?

Seriously??


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## Jraul7 (Sep 18, 2011)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> 5. I am in the US Army Infantry and we do not carry umbrellas unless holding one for a lady or elderly veteran. Non-Vet old men have to carry their own. This rule is set in stone. Overcoats are allowed with suits only. Any other outfit gets wet like a real man.
> 
> 12. A male over the age of 13 should not wear shorts outside of his own home unless he is near a body of water at least as large as a pool for an extended period of time, say an hour, minimum. Yes, it is hot outside. What does that have to do with wearing pants with legs on them. There is a waiver for sporting activities like running, playing team sports, etc. but change clothes when finished. There are no waivers for hot tubs as everyone knows that you should be naked in a hot tub.
> 
> RS


I agree with #5 completely and I'm not in the military!

With #12.... no way, I live in the Caribbean so shorts (nice shorts like dockers in khaki or dark blue, not bright bathing suits), top siders and a nice Polo shirt is my weekend uniform during the day. However, I only wear t-shirts in my house and I hate flip flops. Finally, for the record, I work in an office and even though the dress code is business casual, it is more "business" than "casual" (no light colored pants and long sleeve shirts that you can work with a dark suit) and I have to wear a suit once or twice every week.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

theomegas said:


> Your quantifying someone's self-respect can be influenced by the fact that they're wearing shorts?
> 
> Seriously??


I know it's weird but, yes, I do.

I get that I'm pretty much on my own with that one and that's cool but it is how I feel. No one is going to stop some one from wearing cutoff jeans shorts, a wife beater with BBQ sauce stains on it, and flip flops held together with duct tape out of their house to run errands. If that what someone wants to do, feel free. I'm just not going to do it.

Or do you mean that the outfit described above would imply a lack of self-respect whereas "Dressy" shorts, a "Dressy" shirt, and "Dressy" shoes would make all the difference. I stand behind my feeling that grown men wear pants and children wear shorts.

No offense intended, it's just my position.

RS


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Jraul7 said:


> I agree with #5 completely and I'm not in the military!
> 
> With #12.... no way, I live in the Caribbean so shorts (nice shorts like dockers in khaki or dark blue, not bright bathing suits), top siders and a nice Polo shirt is my weekend uniform during the day. However, I only wear t-shirts in my house and I hate flip flops. Finally, for the record, I work in an office and even though the dress code is business casual, it is more "business" than "casual" (no light colored pants and long sleeve shirts that you can work with a dark suit) and I have to wear a suit once or twice every week.


I did not mean to highjack the OP's thread, sorry about that.

Joe, PR may get a waiver as the entire island is pretty close to the water but I ask you...Did James Bond walk around in shorts all day in Jamaica? No, he wore them to the beach and put pants on for most of his other activities ;-)

Not that I go to James Bond for all of my fashion advice, it's just an example with which people are familiar.

RS


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## Zidane (Feb 11, 2006)

Rusty, be sure to make it out to the next lunch get together!


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## Mystro (Oct 26, 2008)

Do you at least wear a divers watch with the speedo??



Rusty_Shakleford said:


> My biggest problem with it is the fact that i got one easily two sizes too small. That makes the car ride to the lake very uncomfortable as I have to avoid moving round and making adjustments or my wife will notice and the jig would be up. In hindsight, I should have gotten one that fit a little better...
> 
> RS


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## mondodec (Jul 23, 2006)

Who's to say young willie has any taste?

However, have a look at the pics of him in morning suit and formal evening occasions. The seamaster his mummy gave him (and probably very much the reason why he wears it so much) is nowhere to be seen. Probably had a tug of war with some palace functionary to get it off him.



Mystro said:


> Doesn't Prince William always wear his SMP diving watch with a suit?? One of the most photographed couple of the Royal family and he doesn't know he shouldn't wear a diving watch with a suit??:roll:Kinda blows a hole in the not wearing a dive watch with a suit doesn't it?


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## Jraul7 (Sep 18, 2011)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> I did not mean to highjack the OP's thread, sorry about that.
> 
> Joe, PR may get a waiver as the entire island is pretty close to the water but I ask you...Did James Bond walk around in shorts all day in Jamaica? No, he wore them to the beach and put pants on for most of his other activities ;-)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the waiver! And James Bond is the man, so I have to give that one to you!

Picture of me rocking the dressy diver at work:









To get back on track.... I love divers but it's not my style to wear a big orange dial diver (picture an orange monster or Doxa) to a meeting with the CFO of a client. I am planning to buy a PO next year but was not sure of the orange bezel.... so I bought an Alpha PO to try the colors.... and decide it against it.... the orange bezel clashed too much... so I'll probably get the "no orange" PO on SS bracelet or black leather OR the "orange numbers and black bezel" one in SS or black leather (without the orange stitching). That's my opinion anyway, your mileage may vary.

Fun thread!


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## iinsic (Feb 18, 2010)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> Two exceptions on the Speedo clause...
> 
> Professional swimmers and grown men wearing said Speedo just to annoy\embarrass his wife. While not a professional swimmer, I have been known to drop trow and produce a bright red Speedo on more than one occasion while enjoying some time at a large lake near my house. The goal is to embarrass my wife in front of her friends to the point that her face gets more red than the obscene swimsuit.
> 
> ...


This photo dispels any "exception" to the Speedo rule. This is an assault on even the viewers' dignity (and yet another image to haunt your nightly slumbers :-d).

P.S. - Dude looks like a lady.... ;-)


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## aardvarkbark (Oct 27, 2010)

4 pgs of posts in less than 24 hrs. I deny the premise....why can't you wear a PO with a suit? There are billionaires who wear a Timex with a suit. Wear what you want. Show some backbone.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

iinsic said:


> This photo dispels any "exception" to the Speedo rule. This is an assault on even the viewers' dignity (and yet another image to haunt your nightly slumbers :-d).
> 
> P.S. - Dude looks like a lady.... ;-)


Rob,

I'm gonna nominate you to be banned...You are killing me. 

I highly doubt Steven Tyler wore that to embarrass anyone other than himself so the exception clearly does not apply in this case. Shouldn't he have the cash to get all of that fixed?

RS


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Zidane said:


> Rusty, be sure to make it out to the next lunch get together!


Yes sir, I hope to.

The last couple have been on weekends that I have not had off. I have to travel one or two weekends a month to Army posts,around the state and I really don't have much say in the matter. Hopefully the next GTG will work with my schedule. For instance, it looks like I will be training in the field on Super Bowl weekend. How bad does that suck? I went to supply and asked if I could sign for a DVR so I can see the game when I get home, no dice. They should move Veteran's day to the Monday following the Super Bowl to help ensure this insanity stops...

Please keep me posted.

RS


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## bhall41 (Sep 28, 2010)

Sean, 

You are asking two separate but related questions - I don't want to conflate them.

1. Is it appropriate to wear a sports watch with a suit? Traditionally a dress watch should be worn with a suit. That 'rule' still exists, to some extent, amongst certain professionals and in certain places in Europe, where watches with leather straps are de rigueur. By and large however, the 'rule' seems to have gone by the wayside, including in places such as Australia and north America. Personally, I generally avoid wearing a sports watches with a suit, as I work in a conservative occupation, and because a sports watch can interfere with my shirt cuff. 

2. Is a Rolex more appropriate to wear with a suit than an Omega? Depends on the watch I think. If you are going to wear a sports watch with a suit, a smaller sized sports watch is, I think, going to work better than a larger one. So, a 40 mm Submariner or GMT is going to work better than a 45 mm PO. I don't really think this is brand dependent.


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## bhall41 (Sep 28, 2010)

*Re: But of course you can....*



smarty62 said:


> How about this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lovely watch Gerhard. These days however, that would well and truly be considered a dress watch.


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## baronrojo (Jul 14, 2010)

*Re: But of course you can....*



iinsic said:


> Well, no one has mentioned it yet, so I will: Prince William of Wales, second in line to the English throne (I don't say British throne because I'm one of those Scottish exiles who long for an independence plebiscite, perhaps in 2014, the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn), wears an Omega SMP with _everything_, including formal wear. Understand that this young man grew up with valets holding his pants for him as he put them on, who fastened his buttons, knotted his ties, etc. The English are pretty fastidious about proper dress and their future king is expected to lead by example. And his example is a dive watch all the time (admittedly given to him by his late mother not that long before she died, but the sartorially rigid are notoriously unsentimental).


Yes he loves his watch and it has sentimental value to him...but look at his wedding pictures...no watch...anywhere.

The prince followed proper dress protocol and removed his watch for this occasion. Besides...I think he's an exception to the rule due to the fact that his mother gave him that watch.

BTW...I like your signature.


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## Chibatastic (Mar 29, 2010)

Jraul7 said:


> I agree with #5 completely and I'm not in the military!
> 
> With #12.... no way, I live in the Caribbean so shorts (nice shorts like dockers in khaki or dark blue, not bright bathing suits), top siders and a nice Polo shirt is my weekend uniform during the day. However, I only wear t-shirts in my house and I hate flip flops. Finally, for the record, I work in an office and even though the dress code is business casual, it is more "business" than "casual" (no light colored pants and long sleeve shirts that you can work with a dark suit) and I have to wear a suit once or twice every week.


I love my topsiders!!
Which ones do you have?


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## iinsic (Feb 18, 2010)

*Re: But of course you can....*



baronrojo said:


> Yes he loves his watch and it has sentimental value to him...but look at his wedding pictures...no watch...anywhere.


I think you'd be shocked by _other_ things he omitted from his wardrobe that day, too.... ;-)

However, the point I made a bit later was that the royal family goes to great lengths to _downplay_ their exceptionalism. They do this in a number of ways, including hewing to the customs of proper dress. Since the monarch is the final arbiter of such things, it is my belief that the omnipresence of that watch is a dispensation from William's grandmother. The fact that he did not wear it on his wedding day - a formal state occasion as well as his nuptial event - is the exception that proves my point. And, since the Queen has seen fit to grant the respectability of convention to the wearing of certain less-dressy watches on dressy occasions (except, of course, for high state affairs), it is the right of her loyal male subjects to follow the example of their future liege and also wear their appropriately sized dive watches with more formal attire. Brilliant!

Those of us outside the Commonwealth will just have to muddle through the best we can. :-d


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## lucretius (Mar 23, 2006)

Thanks for the laughs! You are a brave man. I'd be worried about the wife trying to one-up me.



Rusty_Shakleford said:


> Two exceptions on the Speedo clause...
> 
> Professional swimmers and grown men wearing said Speedo just to annoy\embarrass his wife. While not a professional swimmer, I have been known to drop trow and produce a bright red Speedo on more than one occasion while enjoying some time at a large lake near my house. The goal is to embarrass my wife in front of her friends to the point that her face gets more red than the obscene swimsuit.
> 
> ...


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## bobz32 (Jul 26, 2010)

All I see is ...









In all 'seriousness' as in, as serious as you can get with discussing old fashion rules ...

I love the look of a diver with a suit. Thankfully, I don't have to ever wear a suit to work again. Traded that in for jeans and tshirts and *gasp* hoodies!! Then again, what I wear should have zero bearing on my ability to perform my technical duties. Also, anyone who refuses to wear shorts and sandals in 90F+ weather casually during the summer is someone who refuses to be comfortable, and is missing out.

Although, to play devil's advocate with myself, I would certainly love an excuse to buy another watch. Or at least a 'dressy' strap for my Speedy Pro, would that count?


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## Taswell (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: But of course you can....*



Brisman said:


> Hey Taswell, do you think you could wear a dress watch with thongs and stubbies? BTW to avoid confusion. "thongs" in Oz are flip flops not the other things and "stubbies" are shorts.


Where I am today that constitutes formal dress ... so I guess so.

My feeling is that there is only one rule.
Rule 1. There are no rules

Or as a wise man once said ...
Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools


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## Matty01 (Sep 6, 2011)

*Re: But of course you can....*









ok


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## PeteJ (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: But of course you can....*

I'd like to table a motion that from now on, we agree never to post pictures of Steve Tyler in any state of undress. It offends our eyes!


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## Matty01 (Sep 6, 2011)

*Re: But of course you can....*










Wore this with an Omega dress watch to a function


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## teeritz (May 27, 2006)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> I posted my personal rules of dress in the Public forum but here they are again for anyone interested...
> 
> 1. All leathers must match basic color and be as close as possible, watch strap, belt, & shoes, e.g., brown with brown or black with black. There are no other colors. This applies to all levels of dress from the beach to black tie.
> 2. Big chunky dive watches are a no-go with a suit. Submariner types and my 39mm TAG Link with it's unassuming polished bezel are not too over sized to "Suit Up!" watch dials must be subdued, no bright colors with suits.
> ...


I like you, pal. Although I use blue and green inks on most days. And I agree about umbrellas. That's why God gave us skulls. To put a hat on when it rains.


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## PeteJ (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: But of course you can....*



Matty01 said:


> ok


Wow. Now that's what any sensible man would wear on a first date.....


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## PeteJ (Jan 5, 2012)

*Re: But of course you can....*



Matty01 said:


> Wore this with an Omega dress watch to a function


Did you ask anyone if they wanted to buy any pegs?


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## MikeCfromLI (Jan 6, 2012)

*Re: But of course you can....*

I see some crazy stuff with Suits David Yerman's and u-boats some wacky stuff, I until this thread thought nothing of a SMP with a suit, and when I get a PO (orange bezel probably bracelet or black with orange stitching) will work too , then again suiot no tie is common as heck unless we are visiting one of the old school banks


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## Hammondo (Feb 8, 2010)

Sean R said:


> Here's a fun little topic. Are dive watches like the Omega Planet Ocean and the Rolex Submariner "appropriate" accompaniments to suits? Is there something about a Rolex sport watch (Sub, GMT, Explorer) that just makes it suitable for everything whereas an Omega stays confined to the sporty category? I'd like to hear some thoughts on this


try making your question less opinionated! I wear all of my Omega's with a suit. Enough said, otherwise I will get banned again if I say what I really think!!


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## avrvmadrid (May 26, 2011)

Rusty - to each his own, but to my ears a lot of those rules are, to put it mildly, behind the times.

IMO there are some basic rules and beyond that we all have a lot of leeway. Of these rules the most important is:

Leather to leather, metal to metal

My day to day work is more dress down and I alternate between a hamilton jazzmaster (brown leather) and a glycine incursore (black leather) on the days where I visit clients I put on the 45.5mm PO, bracelet. An elegant watch is an elegant watch, how many people actually use their POs to dive? One of the greatest things about the elegant divers is that they go with just about anything.


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## avrvmadrid (May 26, 2011)

*Re: But of course you can....*

Michael Curry - is that an Angry Birds watch??


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## MikeCfromLI (Jan 6, 2012)

avrvmadrid said:


> Michael Curry - is that an Angry Birds watch??


Why yes my daughter saw it in jcpennys with my wife and we play it together and she knows daddy likes watches. She is an adorable 6 so there is my casual Friday watch.


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## FOOGauzie (Apr 22, 2010)

I wear my PO with a suit, but then again, I wore a vintage black Tudor Sub and black & white Chuck Taylors with a Tux to my wedding...


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## FOOGauzie (Apr 22, 2010)

iinsic said:


> This photo dispels any "exception" to the Speedo rule. This is an assault on even the viewers' dignity (and yet another image to haunt your nightly slumbers :-d).
> 
> P.S. - Dude looks like a lady.... ;-)


I just threw up a little inside my mouth. Ugh.


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## Anon (Mar 12, 2008)

Now tell me this isn't a killer combination! (sorry for the Submariner spam...)


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## FOOGauzie (Apr 22, 2010)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> This is where my friends and I really disagree but they apparently lack self respect...
> 
> 12. A male over the age of 13 should not wear shorts outside of his own home unless he is near a body of water at least as large as a pool for an extended period of time, say an hour, minimum. Yes, it is hot outside. What does that have to do with wearing pants with legs on them. There is a waiver for sporting activities like running, playing team sports, etc. but change clothes when finished. There are no waivers for hot tubs as everyone knows that you should be naked in a hot tub.
> 13. The same rules apply to flip-flops. When I am at the supermarket in July I should not see a grown man's toes, ever. No water, no flip-flops or sandals, ever.


If you lived somewhere in a Tropical climate where it's often +37 C with 90+ % humidity in the summer, it may cause you to change your opinion. These conditions merit shorts above and beyond working out at an air conditioned New York gym, or toying around on the boardwalk in NorCal. Trust me, pants do not equate to class in these conditions, and rather tend to often result in ridiculously disgusting displays of nasty sweat-stains.


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## iinsic (Feb 18, 2010)

Jake B said:


> If you lived somewhere in a Tropical climate where it's often +37 C with 90+ % humidity in the summer, it may cause you to change your opinion. These conditions merit shorts above and beyond working out at an air conditioned New York gym, or toying around on the boardwalk in NorCal. Trust me, pants do not equate to class in these conditions, and rather tend to often result in ridiculously disgusting displays of nasty sweat-stains.


Jake, I believe that Rusty - if he's near Ft. Benning, as I suspect - is intimately familiar with the "twin 90s" and the discomfort that brings with it. I had an uncle who retired from the USMC as a full colonel and he had the same code with regard to dress. I never saw the man when he was not totally squared away ... even near water. I guess the rigors of military discipline will do that to you.

Still, I live in a sub-tropical environment and it is often in the 80s in the winter and plenty hot in the summer. I tend to wear thong sandals almost all of the time (except when I'm driving a car, and then it's Topsiders, my "formal" footwear). And I wear t-shirts and shorts all the time, except when I'm seeing patients or dining out. And, while others might believe I accordingly lack self-respect, they simply do not fully understand the whole "self" part of self-respect. I'm going to be comfortable in my daily dress. In my seventh decade, I think I have earned that right. That is where "respect" really comes in ... respect by others for my choices.

Rob


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Jake B said:


> If you lived somewhere in a Tropical climate where it's often +37 C with 90+ % humidity in the summer, it may cause you to change your opinion. These conditions merit shorts above and beyond working out at an air conditioned New York gym, or toying around on the boardwalk in NorCal. Trust me, pants do not equate to class in these conditions, and rather tend to often result in ridiculously disgusting displays of nasty sweat-stains.


My opionion originated in the environment that you describe. I live in Atlanta, GA which is not known for mild summers. We stay in the +\-37c range with over 90% humidity all summer. Add to that a pollen count of over 5000 when 120 is considered high and you have a pretty miserable time outside. I understand that it gets hot yet I still get by with real pants on. If other guys can't handle it, that's cool, wear shorts. I simply just choose to not wear them because, to me, they look ridiculous. The way I see it, if I'm wearing light weight chino's and the guy sitting next to me at Turner field watching the Braves lose some more is wearing shorts, we are both hot but one of us is dressed like a child and one like an adult. Again, it's still hot out if you have shorts on, they don't help enough to justify wearing them.

I handle the sweat stains by wearing anti-perspirent every day and changing my undershirt as needed, usually at least twice a day. Wash them with laundry detergent as needed and bleach them once a month or so, no stains.

In an attempt to stay on topic, I think that the Submariner in Anon's post looks great with a suit. I think that a black PO would look just as good, if not better, with a dark suit like the one pictured.

RS


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## FOOGauzie (Apr 22, 2010)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> My opionion originated in the environment that you describe. I live in Atlanta, GA which is not known for mild summers. We stay in the +\-37c range with over 90% humidity all summer. Add to that a pollen count of over 5000 when 120 is considered high and you have a pretty miserable time outside. I understand that it gets hot yet I still get by with real pants on. If other guys can't handle it, that's cool, wear shorts. I simply just choose to not wear them because, to me, they look ridiculous. The way I see it, if I'm wearing light weight chino's and the guy sitting next to me at Turner field watching the Braves lose some more is wearing shorts, we are both hot but one of us is dressed like a child and one like an adult. Again, it's still hot out if you have shorts on, they don't help enough to justify wearing them.
> 
> I handle the sweat stains by wearing anti-perspirent every day and changing my undershirt as needed, usually at least twice a day. Wash them with laundry detergent as needed and bleach them once a month or so, no stains.
> 
> ...



Well then, I guess you won't be callin' me to show you around if you make it to Hong Kong in the summer....Unless you happen to feel an urge to be in the company of someone who's "dressed like a child".

I guess it's part and parcel with my lifestyle...I'm not in the military, and I make custom dive watches & parts for a living, which allows for quite a bit of freedom where dress code is concerned, I guess.

Indeed, we both can agree though, that a nice dive watch can look sharp with a suit.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Jake and Rob,

No disrespect intended. It's all tongue in cheek.

Most, actually all, of my friends wear shorts. It's not a big deal. I give them a hard time about it and they give it right back to me. It's all in good fun. Sometimes the good natured ribbing that we give each other in person does not translate well to typed text on a forum. For that I apologize. 

I fully expect both of you to put me up whether it's in South Florida or Hong Kong. I promise to keep the wisecracks about your clothing to a minumum...

Regards,

RS


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## GaryF (Dec 18, 2009)

I suspect you just don't have the legs for shorts.





Rusty_Shakleford said:


> Jake and Rob,
> 
> No disrespect intended. It's all tongue in cheek.
> 
> ...


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## RacingGreen (Feb 26, 2010)

For all the etiquette arguments, I think the bottom line is this; A small subset of people who are lucky enough to be able to afford a luxury watch - only a small subset of that subset - plus hobbyists who will prioritise their expenditure in line with their hobby - can afford more than one.

Most of those guys are not going to pick a pure dress watch for their sole purchase. And once they've made that purchase, they're damn sure going to sport it in the office.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

RacingGreen said:


> For all the etiquette arguments, I think the bottom line is this; A small subset of people who are lucky enough to be able to afford a luxury watch - only a small subset of that subset - plus hobbyists who will prioritise their expenditure in line with their hobby - can afford more than one.
> 
> Most of those guys are not going to pick a pure dress watch for their sole purchase. And once they've made that purchase, they're damn sure going to sport it in the office.


I'd say you hit the nail on the head as far as the average person goes. I'm assuming the OP was asking his question in regards to the watch freaks, specifically the watch freaks that frequent WUS. Of course there are the few freaks, and I'm looking into a mirror here, that are a bit freakier than most.

That came out a bit more risque than I intended 

RS


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

GaryF said:


> I suspect you just don't have the legs for shorts.


A bit harsh sir, true but harsh...

I'm going to go do some squats now... 

RS


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## ChronoScot (Oct 25, 2010)

RacingGreen said:


> For all the etiquette arguments, I think the bottom line is this; A small subset of people who are lucky enough to be able to afford a luxury watch - only a small subset of that subset - plus hobbyists who will prioritise their expenditure in line with their hobby - can afford more than one.
> 
> Most of those guys are not going to pick a pure dress watch for their sole purchase. And once they've made that purchase, they're damn sure going to sport it in the office.


So very true.

I suspect the vast majority of those who buy a mid- to high-end luxury watch (including Omega in the high end for definition purposes), with little thought, justification or funds to buy a further one, will consider it appropriate for suit wear simply by virtue of the high-end tag (perhaps not counting those who might buy a PloProf as their only watch). I've seen plenty of guys in suits wearing dive watches, big chronographs, rubber straps, shiny bracelets and so forth, who I would speculate belong to this group.

I feel happy and privileged that I am able to afford several expensive watches in different styles, allowing me to match my timepiece to my outfit. I appreciate that many guys are just as happy, and rightly so, with their single timepiece.

WIS types who conduct this kind of discussion (of which I am an active participant) are really in the minority.


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## GaryF (Dec 18, 2009)

What!?!!? You lost me at rule 1., sir!
Yes, brown should go with brown when it comes to leather but they should always be artfully differentiated in terms of tone and/or texture. Apart from the impracticality of finding belt, shoes and strap to match, you run the serious risk of looking like you were given the Dress Like Dad play-set for your birthday.
If you get them _almost _the same, you are telling the world that you were "almost" able to achieve something and that was good enough for you. Before you know it, you'll be "almost" getting into clubs and your wife will "almost" love you!

Remember, sir, its a fine line between making the effort and trying too hard!

:-d



Rusty_Shakleford said:


> I posted my personal rules of dress in the Public forum but here they are again for anyone interested...
> 
> 1. All leathers must match basic color and be as close as possible, watch strap, belt, & shoes, e.g., brown with brown or black with black. There are no other colors. This applies to all levels of dress from the beach to black tie.
> 2. Big chunky dive watches are a no-go with a suit. Submariner types and my 39mm TAG Link with it's unassuming polished bezel are not too over sized to "Suit Up!" watch dials must be subdued, no bright colors with suits.
> ...


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

GaryF said:


> What!?!!? You lost me at rule 1., sir!
> Yes, brown should go with brown when it comes to leather but they should always be artfully differentiated in terms of tone and/or texture. Apart from the impracticality of finding belt, shoes and strap to match, you run the serious risk of looking like you were given the Dress Like Dad play-set for your birthday.
> If you get them _almost _the same, you are telling the world that you were "almost" able to achieve something and that was good enough for you. Before you know it, you'll be "almost" getting into clubs and your wife will "almost" love you!
> 
> ...


Yet somehow I pull it off masterfully. At least that's what my dad tells me.

Hey, now I know what's up at the club doors...

Seriously though. I always try to get leathers that compliment each other. That's what I mean by match. They need not, in fact should not, be the exact same. That would look a bit silly, sort of like a uniform. For me, It's brown with brown and black with black. Some exceptions may be possible but I can't think of any off any at the moment.

RS


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## Runitout (Aug 19, 2009)

Rusty

I don't agree with all of your Rules; we live in different societies, though, so it's no surprise. What surprises me is how many of the Rules align with my own.

_Black_ suits, though? Really?

And - I would never wear a Planet Ocean (or any metal braceleted watch) with a dinner jacket or other more formal attire. With a lounge suit, though - yes. But not if I were meeting a man over fifty. He might care about these things.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Runitout said:


> What surprises me is how many of the Rules align with my own.


What's the word I'm looking for.....Vindication. Yeah, that's it, Vindication, my friends. I'm not alone in my weirdness.

Thanks Runitout, I appreciate the support. 

RS

I'd like to add another facet to the OP's original question to the Omega forum. What's your stance on a Speedmaster with a suit? I don't own one but I hope to one day. I'm firmly Pro-Speedmaster with a suit, either on bracelet or leather but I think leather would go better on a formal setting, at least anything short of Black Tie...Thoughts?


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## 1watchaholic (Feb 6, 2008)

I wear with a suit all the time. If you really want to dress her up...Omega Mesh should do the trick! :-!


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## teeritz (May 27, 2006)

Runitout said:


> Rusty
> 
> I don't agree with all of your Rules; we live in different societies, though, so it's no surprise. What surprises me is how many of the Rules align with my own.
> 
> ...


Happy New Year, Run! I have to say that I don't follow the Rules all that carefully. Dinner jacket? Don't own one as I don't move in the kind of circles that warrant owning one. As for not wearing a metal braceleted watch when meeting a man over fifty, well, _I'll_ be a man over fifty in about five years and I pretty much stopped caring what they thought back when I turned 40. 
Besides, I neither have the wardrobe space nor the salary to truly dress according to the Rules.



Rusty_Shakleford said:


> What's the word I'm looking for.....Vindication. Yeah, that's it, Vindication, my friends.* I'm not alone in my weirdness.
> 
> *Thanks Runitout, I appreciate the support.
> 
> ...


Stay weird, sir. I think it's grand. You have grit.

As for the Speedmaster with suit, ahh, here's where it all gets interesting. I said back in my 2200th post that I buy watches for the silliest of reasons. More to do with how the watch makes me feel rather than anything else. This one...











...makes me think I'm running a tobacco plantation in pre-Castro Cuba. So therefore, I'm the last person who's gonna say that you can't wear a Speedmaster with a suit. Just pretend you're Buzz Aldrin receiving a medal of commendation after the moon landing. That's (seriously) the way I look at it. And if I could wear short sleeved white shirts to work, I'd happily wear my Speedy and my tortoise-shell specs and pretend I was in Mission Control. Smoking an unfiltered Lucky.
They are more than just wristwatches to me. They're mood-enhancing.


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## iinsic (Feb 18, 2010)

I think it's grand that this thread - about whether it's okay to wear a PO with a suit - has run on for 110 posts. "Rusty's Rules" have livened it up immeasurably, thankfully. :-!

I'm wondering now if we've changed any minds. Anyone feel differently about watches and dress rules as a result of this discussion?

Rob


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## solesman (Dec 3, 2009)

teeritz said:


> As for the Speedmaster with suit, ahh, here's where it all gets interesting. I said back in my 2200th post that I buy watches for the silliest of reasons. More to do with how the watch makes me feel rather than anything else. This one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perfectly put. My watches all make me feel like someone else and enhance my moods. Im cracked up here!:-d


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## solesman (Dec 3, 2009)

Oh and I would wear my orange PO with a suit no worries at all. Most guys at my work wear dive watches from Omega, Rolex, Seiko and I saw an IWC aqua timer and they all wear with suits and nobody bats an eyelid. They are all 40-60 years old. Wear what your comfortable with I say.b-)


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## Ricky T (Mar 2, 2011)

*Re: But of course you can....*

Like many have said, wear what you want. I would like to add, wear what you have. If you're an adult, you should own some kind of metallic watch (non black rubber Casio) that you can wear with a suit.

While mine in the picture is not a Planet Ocean, it's a GMT Master, it goes with a dark suit at my best friend's wedding. He sported a stainless Datejust and his dad wore a two tone Datejust.


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## bhall41 (Sep 28, 2010)

Anon said:


> View attachment 609875
> 
> 
> Now tell me this isn't a killer combination! (sorry for the Submariner spam...)


It isn't a killer combination. 

Not saying this is a fail (and I have been guilty of wearing my Sub with a suit on occasion) but, in my opinion, a dress watch with a leather strap would work better or otherwise a DateJust / Aqua Terra / Grand Seiko if you are going down the bracelet route. Ricky T's photo above nicely illustrates this - his GMT (nice though it is) does not wear as well with a suit as the two DateJusts (esp the one with the white dial).


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## iinsic (Feb 18, 2010)

bhall41 said:


> It isn't a killer combination.
> 
> Not saying this is a fail (and I have been guilty of wearing my Sub with a suit on occasion) but, in my opinion, a dress watch with a leather strap would work better or otherwise a DateJust / Aqua Terra / Grand Seiko if you are going down the bracelet route. Ricky T's photo above nicely illustrates this - his GMT (nice though it is) does not wear as well with a suit as the two DateJusts (esp the one with the white dial).


I was flipping through the latest GQ at my doc's office yesterday (Michelle Williams is smokin' hot, BTW). The ads for clothing were divided into casual dress and dressy designer suits. All of the ads for casual wear featured tall, well-muscled men with chiseled features, all sporting some type of facial hair - mostly the ubiquitous stubble. All of the dressy designer suits were worn by fey Nancy boys with less body hair than all of the women I know. And almost none of the suits met Rusty's criteria for tasteful, conservative attire. So what is the takeaway from this?

For me, it's that real mean wear real suits, not skinny-legged plaid monstrosities by Gucci, et al. And real men wear real watches, dress or sporty, with whatever they want (that includes a Lange Datograph with t-shirt and jeans or a Submariner with a dinner jacket). And their response to anyone with the temerity to question their manliness or good taste? My guess it would be "Kiss my a$$" - or some variation thereof ... and might include a beat down. ;-)


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## Zidane (Feb 11, 2006)

iinsic said:


> I was flipping through the latest GQ at my doc's office yesterday (Michelle Williams is smokin' hot, BTW). The ads for clothing were divided into casual dress and dressy designer suits. All of the ads for casual wear featured tall, well-muscled men with chiseled features, all sporting some type of facial hair - mostly the ubiquitous stubble. All of the dressy designer suits were worn by fey Nancy boys with less body hair than all of the women I know. And almost none of the suits met Rusty's criteria for tasteful, conservative attire. So what is the takeaway from this?
> 
> For me, it's that real mean wear real suits, not skinny-legged plaid monstrosities by Gucci, et al. And real men wear real watches, dress or sporty, with whatever they want (that includes a Lange Datograph with t-shirt and jeans or a Submariner with a dinner jacket). And their response to anyone with the temerity to question their manliness or good taste? My guess it would be "Kiss my a$$" - or some variation thereof ... and might include a beat down. ;-)


BAM! My vote for best post of the thread.


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## Rusty_Shakleford (Jan 19, 2011)

Zidane said:


> BAM! My vote for best post of the thread.


Seconded 

RS


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## Ricky T (Mar 2, 2011)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> These threads remind me of a high school graduation ceremony that I attended about ten years ago. Appropriate dress is relative to where you are and who you are with...
> 
> My girlfriend at the time's sister was graduating from a high school in the North Atlanta suburbs, Forsyth County, for those familiar with the area. I met my GF's family there and they were quite surprised that I showed up in a suit. My thoughts were "Who wouldn't wear a suit to this type of event"? I could not understand why everyone was making a big deal regarding my clothes until we went into the ceremony and I noticed that out of easily 500 people, I was the only one wearing a suit. I noticed a lot of "wife beaters" and flannel shirts with the sleeves cut off. The real fun began when they called out the names of the graduates. There was a pre-ceremony brief that asked the attendees not to clap or cheer until all of the students walk up and get their diploma. Of course, not ten names into the list the cheers started as did the canned air horns and whistles. Not whistles as in your lips but whistles that a football referee would use. This lasted almost two hours. I quickly shrunk down as low as I could out of embarrassment for the human race.
> 
> ...


Yep, that sounds just like Forsyth County, I'm quite familiar with the area.

Your story reminded me of the two graduations that I went last year in Scottsboro, Alabama and Athens, AL. Both towns are in the northeastern part of AL. Normally I would wear a suit to a graduation. But knowing the areas, I decided to dress down a bit. Both times, I wore khaki slacks, leather "dress type" shoes, short sleeve "camp style" shirt and my GMT. I fit right in without sticking out too much. Like you said, there were men with anything from wife beater shirts, shorts, Larry the cable guy cut off flannel shirt, to a very few who did wear suits.


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## Ricky T (Mar 2, 2011)

Rusty_Shakleford said:


> Jake and Rob,
> 
> I fully expect both of you to put me up whether it's in South Florida or Hong Kong. I promise to keep the wisecracks about your clothing to a minumum...
> 
> ...


Last time I was in Hong Kong, even the cops wear shorts. By your rule, it should be ok, since HK is an island and you're within a stone's throw of the ocean from most parts of the island. 

I think you need to relax the "no shorts" rule a bit.


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## NMGE17 (Feb 9, 2006)

OK it came up earlier in the thread, but I give in and must ask - what is a 'wife beater' shirt?

Nigel


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## Ricky T (Mar 2, 2011)

NMGE17 said:


> OK it came up earlier in the thread, but I give in and must ask - what is a 'wife beater' shirt?
> 
> Nigel


Nigel:

I see you're from England. I guess the term is a US slang that hasn't made it across the pond yet. 

An A formed white, tight, T-Shirt normally produced for men but also worn by women, intended for wear under shirts. Its reputation comes from those wearing the shirts while engaged in domestic violence.


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## iinsic (Feb 18, 2010)

NMGE17 said:


> OK it came up earlier in the thread, but I give in and must ask - what is a 'wife beater' shirt?
> 
> Nigel


;-)


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## GaryF (Dec 18, 2009)

Ricky T said:


> Last time I was in Hong Kong, even the cops wear shorts. By your rule, it should be ok, since HK is an island and you're within a stone's throw of the ocean from most parts of the island.
> 
> I think you need to relax the "no shorts" rule a bit.


That's how you build an Empire!


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## 4counters (Mar 18, 2010)

If your employer doesn't approve of wearing a PO with a suit then I'd suggest they're a little anal.

Personally I think a PO looks good with anything.


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## NMGE17 (Feb 9, 2006)

Thanks Ricky T and Iinsic, I don't necessarily follow the logic, but now understand the reference. Thanks also to Gary for reminding me of one of TV's nightmare programmes :-d

Nigel


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## Runitout (Aug 19, 2009)

In Australia, a 'wifebeater' is a blue singlet, not a white one. The same demographic wear them, though.

@Teeritz - Happiest of New Years to you, brother.

There's been an increased casualisation in western dress norms over decades (if not centuries). Common hoodlums in the 1920s wore ties of a day. Now it's tracksuits with no shirt. I wonder if the worm will ever turn?


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## 007_Omega (Jun 29, 2017)

I know this is a reviving a dead thread but just have to say that some of these comments in this thread further confirms that I'll be continuing wearing a diver with a Suit. It's as if people assume that somehow everyday people are expected to have a box full of watches for any occasion. I agree that wearing a purely tool diver with a suit would look bad, especially if it's a huge watch but a Seamaster/Sub are versatile. Hell, I think most people think of the Sub as quite dressy these days. While a watch purist may see differently, hard to convince an everyday person that your $8k Sub is a "tool watch." 

Fashion evolves and some people need to learn to accept that. In fact, the snobbiest people in this thread have already accepted that. Don't believe me? Look up pictures from every century and see how different people dress. I personally hate overly trendy styles that will die after a year or two of popularity; however, I think it's a stretch to suggest wearing a luxury Swiss timepiece that has a bezel around it somehow bars it from being used in any formal setting. 

I hate to break it to some of you but simply wearing a high quality mechanical watch these days is a statement in and of itself. Long gone are the days of everyone wearing a watch and it being a necessary accessory. 

Last thing, wearing a diver with a suit is hardly a new phenomenon. It's been happening for many decades. It's not a trend; it's a style choice. I love the mechanics and tool nature of my timepieces. Yes, I'm a sucker for ones that look both functional and have a class about them. I think it gets the best of both worlds and hence why I'll wear one with a T-Shirt or with a Suit.


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## run23 (Jul 12, 2009)

Glad the thread is back to life! I oddly love arguing about whether you can wear a watch with a suit -- makes me feel like a kid in his parents' basement arguing about Star Wars with strangers online (-;.


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## HiggsBoson (Oct 12, 2009)

This, is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. :roll:


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## Jay Hallsworth (Dec 3, 2016)

I wore my Seamaster 2254 with a suit and it was fine. Or rather no fine. The jury decided I was innocent. I can't be certain this had any bearing on my case but if I wore something else I could be doing time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## om3ga_fan (Nov 26, 2014)

Well, I'm guilty. I often wear divers with suits. Most often a PO 2500. Occasionally a 300. Now and then a SMP.

A few pictures..

300 with a blazer










300 with a suit










SMP with a linen sport coat










PO with a suit










PO with a suit










PO with a suit










SMP with a suit










Sent from iPhone 7


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## Iowa_Watchman (Jun 16, 2013)

Guilty and proud of it.


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## Ken G (Dec 15, 2012)

I wear my PO with a suit all the time - I even go a step further on occasion!


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## specialagentstu (Mar 17, 2017)




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## om3ga_fan (Nov 26, 2014)

This thread inspired me to go 300 today



















Sent from iPhone 7


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## TwentiethCenturyFox (Mar 8, 2014)

Absolutely can be worn with a suit or a tux. See Daniel Craig, aka Bond, James.


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## run23 (Jul 12, 2009)

I think this latest round of pics puts this debate to rest. Looks fantastic!


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## COUPET (Sep 21, 2010)

run23 said:


> I think this latest round of pics puts this debate to rest. Looks fantastic!


I'll second that!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## iinsic (Feb 18, 2010)

The resurrection of this thread serves only to remind me of the peculiar circumstances of Rusty's departure from this forum. :think:


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## iam7head (Dec 16, 2010)

PO8500 45mm here and yes, it fits under the french cuff just fine 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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