# Ocean Vintage GMT disappointment



## Finnanhaddie (Jan 5, 2011)

Hi there.

This is my first post to the Forum.

I discovered Steinhart watches by following a link to Watchuseek via Google. I was generally impressed by the positive reviews and feedback provided by the Forum Members for the Steinhart brand, particularly the new Ocean Vintage GMT, although there were negative posts on the homage nature of the GMT to the Rolex Explorer 2.

I ordered the Ocean Vintage GMT from Chronomaster, the UK retailer, between Christmas and New Year, and the watch arrived yesterday.

However I'm really disappointed with Steinhart's quality control, which is not what I would expect from a German company. The 24 hour hand on this Ocean Vintage GMT is totally misaligned with the watch face/bezel; I read it as approximately 16 minutes off the hour. This is very poor assembly and bad quality control, and this particular watch should never have made it past the factory door.

I have tried to attach a photograph, but keep getting an error message from the webpage, 'upload of file failed'.

The second, minute, & hour hands are correctly fitted and align perfectly however.

The watch is being returned today for replacement.

Have any other Forum members experienced quality control issues with the Steinhart brand? Hopefully this is a one-off example.

Cheers,

Scott.


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## fristil (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi,

My vintage GMT the 24 hour hand is spot on the mark!. My triton 100 ATM the date is a ½-1 mm missaligned, but I can live with that.
Usually Gunter fix all these problems, but I agree, with a bit better QC, they could stop these watches from going out and fix it before
they hit the customers, and the customer get a not so good experience, who wants to buy a watch for $400 and then send it back
and wait a few more extra weeks?

//Mike


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## Triton (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi Scott and welcome to WUS.

The issue you are experiencing has nothing to do with poor quality control, as you put it. Steinhart's quality control is very well en par with that of the rest of the industry's, no matter where the brand is located and no matter what anybody says, or better, speculates! All watches get controlled in two stages, once before they leave the assembler in Switzerland and then again before they get shipped from Augsburg, Germany to the customers. Both times by master watchmakers. In this process, one of the things that always gets checked, is the alignment of the hands, especially those using the ETA 2893-2 and the ETA Valjoux 7750 because of their complications.

The mis-alignment of the GMT hand on your Ocean Vintage GMT occurred during shipment of the watch from Germany to the UK and is covered by Steinhart's warranty, although it should rather be covered by ETA's warranty, as this issue sometimes occurs due to the construction of the mass-produced movement. So maybe before bursting in here and making rude accusations regarding the quality control towards Steinhart, you should've maybe simply contacted Mr. Steinhart, who would have taken the time to explain the details to you and given you his FedEx account number with which you could've returned the watch for service, although you bought it from a reseller.


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## Finnanhaddie (Jan 5, 2011)

Hi Triton,
No, I don't accept your argument that a watch hand was perfectly set when it left the factory and suddenly moves out of alignment during transit. You are stating that the Swiss assembly is infallible, and that the two stage quality control both in Switzerland and Germany never make mistakes! Nonsense.
You can imagine my disappointment when opening the box and discovering this problem.
I have managed to attach a photograph which illustrates the 24 hour hand aligned with 15.00 hours, and the 16 minute error can be seen.
Cheers,
Scott


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## picklepossy (Feb 2, 2009)

I agree with Triton. For Scott's first post he comes on here and blasts Steinhart. Not the best way to start on this forum. Anyhow, Triton is there not a way to prevent this from happening in shipment at all? I'm asking cause I have one coming to from Gunter and just would hate to have to send it back when I have already been waiting 2 weeks.


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## Bergarn (Apr 16, 2010)

There's no way knowing when the GMT hand was mis-aligned unless there's conclusive evidence (pictures?) of the moment when the watch left Steinhart and the moment it arrived at your door. I would be happy with the fact that Steinhart happily takes ownership of the issue and absorbs all costs around it without an argument.


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## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Completely off topic, but that is one great looking watch. I'll be placing my order very soon.


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## Triton (Oct 17, 2006)

Okay, Scott, I see where you're coming from.

Let's set some things straight first, since you are completely re-interpreting my post to suit your needs.

- You don't have to accept my argument, but you shouldn't call me a liar either. I'm one of Steinhart's business partner and I state facts only. I don't lie and I don't speculate!

- I never stated that the Swiss assembly is infallible!

- I never stated that Steinhart's quality control never makes mistakes!

I completely understand your frustration, I'm an avid watch collector myself with around 70+ watches and it is always aggravating when one arrives with an issue. Unlike you I have learned though, that this is part of the hobby of collecting mechanical watches, no matter what brand. important is always how the seller deals with the issues. Good after-sale-service is crucial and Steinhart is one of the best when it comes to this, fact!

Steinhart is not for everyone, maybe not for you either ... :think:



Finnanhaddie said:


> Hi Triton,
> No, I don't accept your argument that a watch hand was perfectly set when it left the factory and suddenly moves out of alignment during transit. You are stating that the Swiss assembly is infallible, and that the two stage quality control both in Switzerland and Germany never make mistakes! Nonsense.
> You can imagine my disappointment when opening the box and discovering this problem.
> I have managed to attach a photograph which illustrates the 24 hour hand aligned with 15.00 hours, and the 16 minute error can be seen.
> ...


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## Triton (Oct 17, 2006)

picklepossy said:


> I agree with Triton. For Scott's first post he comes on here and blasts Steinhart. Not the best way to start on this forum. Anyhow, Triton is there not a way to prevent this from happening in shipment at all? I'm asking cause I have one coming to from Gunter and just would hate to have to send it back when I have already been waiting 2 weeks.


Once a watch leaves Steinhart's door, it is out of his hands. The watches are well packed, but the ETA 2893-2, as well as other mechanical movements, are not built to compensate very heavy shocks. It depends a lot on how the parcel service handles the packages. Should your watch encounter an issue, you do not have to necessaraliy send it back to Germany. You can have your local watchmaker fix it and Steinhart will compensate you 100% for the cost.

@All: Issues like the ones the TS has encountered cost Steinhart money, so one of the top priorities is always to avoid issues. Steinhart does not save money when it comes to quality parts and quality control in order to save money when it comes to after sale service. Steinhart has absolutely no interest in sending out faulty watches for any reason! Understand this and you will never have to question Steinhart's quality control standards ever again.


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## fristil (Feb 14, 2006)

Triton said:


> The watches are well packed
> 
> 
> > Triton,
> ...


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## Finnanhaddie (Jan 5, 2011)

I can see how posts get out of hand.....
I'm never called you a liar, and I didn't reinterprete your post to suit my needs.
I collect watches too, and am aware that sometimes a 'rogue' watch slips through to the customer. It has happened to me before. Perhaps I am simply unlucky in this respect. It certainly is frustrating when this happens, and tempers ones tone when reverting back to the retailer or manufacturer. Call it human nature!
Cheers,
Scott.



Triton said:


> Okay, Scott, I see where you're coming from.
> 
> Let's set some things straight first, since you are completely re-interpreting my post to suit your needs.
> 
> ...


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## MGtheGreat (Dec 27, 2010)

> Okay, Scott, I see where you're coming from.
> 
> Let's set some things straight first, since you are completely re-interpreting my post to suit your needs.
> 
> ...


wow steinhart needs to buck up on the customer relations department..i understand Finnanhaddie's frustration..he buys a legitimate watch and for the amount paid,he as the customer expects something good..and the response from steinhart should be comforting and assuring that things will be settled out in a well mannered way,not in an offensive way to the customer.customer's satisfaction should be the top priority


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

Just curious have you tried to align the 24 hour hand with the crown adjustment? See the attached ETA SA instruction.


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## Finnanhaddie (Jan 5, 2011)

First thing I tried: I started setting the time and immediately noted the misalignment. The alignment of the 24 hour hand is always off with respect to the the minute and hour hands, which for their part are perfect. The 24 hour hand clicks through the hour intervals using the rapid adjustment facility, but will always be out by 16 minutes.

Thanks anyway.

Cheers,

Scott.



edwinwalke said:


> Just curious have you tried to align the 24 hour hand with the crown adjustment? See the attached ETA SA instruction.


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## Triton (Oct 17, 2006)

MGtheGreat said:


> wow steinhart needs to buck up on the customer relations department..i understand Finnanhaddie's frustration..he buys a legitimate watch and for the amount paid,he as the customer expects something good..and the response from steinhart should be comforting and assuring that things will be settled out in a well mannered way,not in an offensive way to the customer.customer's satisfaction should be the top priority


Well, sorry for being human and not an auto-reply-robot! :roll: BTW, I'm not employed by Steinhart, I run my own business. b-)


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## Triton (Oct 17, 2006)

fristil said:


> Triton said:
> 
> 
> > The watches are well packed
> ...


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## rukrem (Apr 13, 2009)

Hello Scott and welcome to the forum! So I completely understand your frustration, the same thing happened to me with an Aviation GMT I ordered. While disappointing at first, sh** happens for whatever reason! The good part, Gunter @ Steinhart was easy to deal with, paid for the shipping ... and I had my watch back in two weeks time in proper working order. The measure of a good customer service is not whether your product arrived in perfect condition, per se, but how accommodating they are at rectifying a problem. I think Steinhart, in this regard does a superb job. Honestly, Steinhart's QC seems in line with the industry ... you would be surprised at the sh** other watch companies try to pass off.

Over the years I have received many goods not in the condition I had hoped, bargained, or even paid for ... ranging from brand new cars to toaster ovens. But the brands that stood by their products and fixed them are the ones worth investing in because they appreciate their customers and the money you spend. So, coming on to a brand forum and basically killing the good will towards that brand is most likely not going to be met with enthusiasm from devoted customers and promoters. Always contact the manufacturer first before jumping to conclusions ... because you will probably end up loving your watch and eating your words 

PS ... don't mind Triton he's grumpy but he designs great watches ... and keep the shipping costs down


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## ukwatch (Jan 6, 2011)

As a long time lurker on this forum and also a customer of Steinhart from back in the USA days to the current German operation I will make a few observations of my own humble opinions which are based on personal experiences.

- Gunter is an outstanding individual with the absolute best of intentions at all times. He will bend over backwards to make something right which isn't. A purchase is never complete until the customer is happy. I have experienced this first hand many times and I will continue to purchase from him.

- The demand for his beautiful watches along with his business has/ and is growing rapidly - but at the same time his staff isn't.

- That being said, the experience of deciding on and buying a Steinhart is often tempered by a hit or miss on what you might receive when you open the package. Most times all is good and 100% perfect, however there are in fact many times when problems are experienced of varying degrees. But again, you can be absolutely sure it will get resolved eventually. But this does result in frustrations and a somewhat soured experience. Note that this was exactly the same experience with Steinhart USA/ Debaufre. 

- As was suggested, one should know that until Gunter increases his staff and tightens controls this will be the buying experience. Hope for the best and if it is not ok rest assured it will eventually get resolved. 

- This is also not the same with all watch companies as was suggested. I purchase new watches from all over the world (from larger and smaller companies). While very few of these watches have the problems I have experienced with Steinhart... if they do its also never as easy as picking up the phone and talking with Gunter to resolve them. 

- Again, know what you are buying in advance and it becomes less of an issue/ disappointment. And I am not saying or agreeing this is at all how it should be but it is this way with Steinhart today.

- There are a small handful of overzealous, non-Steinhart employees on this forum who vehemently defend the company. This is admirable and I believe with the very best of intent. However, by engaging in defensive exchanges with those that are suffering a disappointment with their new purchase things can often become worse for Steinhart. A simple, helpful message suggesting that the individual should call Steinhart would be more beneficial to the person experiencing the problems (and for Steinhart) than some of the exchanges I see on this forum.

Again, these observation are of my own humble opinions and experiences.


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## grabtime (Mar 5, 2010)

Scott, This will be resolved. So don't stress. I understand completely that you came onto this forum because of your frustration and it is a pity that u feel just more frustrated. I implore you to just wait till Steinhart is open again and pick up the phone or email. Mr Steinhart is a real wonderful guy and until you deal with him, it's hard to imagine, however he is a really genuine chap who will only be happy when you are enjoying your watch. 

The office opens on the 10th. You don't need to continue this discussion if you feel heckled. That's the last thing Mr Steinhart would want.


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## nuovorecord (Nov 27, 2007)

https://www.watchuseek.com/f275/sending-watch-back-steinhart-customs-delay-385467.html

I had my own frustrating experience last year with a misaligned GMT hand. Mine was off by something like 38-40 minutes. Things went rapidly from bad to worse as I attempted to get the situation resolved (see above post) and I was pretty soured on the brand after two bad watches and weeks of unecessary delay.

BUT, to be fair, I did just order another Ocean GMT from Gunter. I do like the watch and still want one in my collection, so I'm giving them another chance to deliver. I know that it's tough to run a small business. Keeping customers happy, creating new products, managing employees, ensuring QC - all tough things to do simutaneously. So, I decided to give this brand another try. I think Steinhart is honest and sincere, but maybe a bit over their heads right now?

I agree with the above sentiments that once the watch is shipped, there's a lot of damage that can happen in shipping. FWIW, I've never experienced damage to watches with automatic movements that were packed in cardboard boxes - Seikos, Omegas, etc. I owned a Debaufre with the same ETA movement as the Ocean GMT that had no issues whatsover. It was shipped in a well-padded cardboard box via FedEx. I'd gladly pay the cost differential for improved packaging to help ensure I don't have to return a watch.


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## Finnanhaddie (Jan 5, 2011)

Thank you Ukwatch for the reassuring words, and welcome to the Forum from a fellow newbie.
Yes I noticed the vitriol on some posts on this particular topic, and others too. I initiated the topic with an air of disappointment and let fire, but hey, thats the way public forums work.
I'm confident that the problem will get resolved.
Cheers,
Scott.



ukwatch said:


> - There are a small handful of overzealous, non-Steinhart employees on this forum who vehemently defend the company. This is admirable and I believe with the very best of intent. However, by engaging in defensive exchanges with those that are suffering a disappointment with their new purchase things can often become worse for Steinhart. A simple, helpful message suggesting that the individual should call Steinhart would be more beneficial to the person experiencing the problems (and for Steinhart) than some of the exchanges I see on this forum.


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## sandya (Nov 30, 2010)

Hi
Had to jump into this.
I have been making up my mind on my first diver, Ocean 1. Mainly because of having heard oodles of praises for Mr. Gunter.
But this is the 3rd or 4th quality control issue I have come across on Steinhart watches on this forum in the last 10 days.
Also before Mr. Triton jumps on me. I think I must say I have never seen a company person/ business partner react like that to a customer complaint.
And telling the person that Steinhart may not be suitable for him.
I don;t know about Scott but this may put off lot of other buyers.
On buyer at a time and in no time a lot would be gone.
Just my two cents. On offense meant.
Cheers
Sandy


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

sandya said:


> Also before Mr. Triton jumps on me. I think I must say I have never seen a company person/ business partner react like that to a customer complaint. And telling the person that Steinhart may not be suitable for him. I don;t know about Scott but this may put off lot of other buyers.


Sandy, as Triton pointed out he is not an employee of Steinhart Timepieces. As such, his comments and opinions are not necessarily those of Steinhart Timepieces. I think it's important that you separate the two - especially since you're considering buying a Steinhart.

I will also point out that complaints of quality come from a very vocal minority in watch forums. I would suggest that you read through some of the other forums here at WUS like the Rolex and Omega forums and see how many quality issues are being reported by those owners. All watch manufacturers produce problem watches and Steinhart is no exception to this rule. You have to understand that although watches with problems represent a very small percentage of those sold, they receive a far greater representation in watch forum discussions. Call it human nature; most of us are more likely to complain about something we're unhappy with than something that has satisfied us.


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## ukwatch (Jan 6, 2011)

Not a problem Scott. I also very much suggest you ring Steinhart and not email them. Gunter tries very hard but is not so great with email responses. He would tell you he gets hundreds a day from around the world and can get overwhelmed (again due to lack of staffing in my opinion). They are open again on 10 January as someone else noted ...but fair warning that just before or after holiday periods in my experience are the toughest times to reach them due to order build up and fulfillment. You may have to give it a couple of try's before they actually pick up. Best wishes.


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## fotoman (Jun 2, 2010)

It's pretty frustrating to see a misalignment on GMT hand and I don't think the buyer makes any rude complaints. Everything is just natural response. Nor do I like some of the over defensive and instructive posts. The suggestion of having a brand new watch fixed at a local watchmaker and getting reimbursement from Steinhart seems pretty absurd IMO. It's not easy to find qualified watchmaker locally who can promise never to make any imperfection such as a tiny scratch on case back or lint under the crystal when he is done with work, as we have seem lots of thread complaining the watch comes back in even worse shape after repair(s).


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## Mikeman (Mar 13, 2009)

I have to jump in on this.Scott i understand your frustration really i do and i know from fact that any issue will be sorted out. i also understand Triton's point of view.........although if not directly employed by Steinhart as was stated i wonder if he really should be saying anything at all then. he either works there or he doesn't. 
Gunter is an excellent guy and he is a pleasure to deal with as i beleive you will find out. these things happen and even if i was in your shoes and i might be one day, i constantly remind myself that this is a sight unseen internet business where i have to rely on someone else to make sure my purchase meets my expectations. now granted every person here excepts the reality of this and holds there breath upon their own first inspection.
it is unfortunate and disappointing for sure but really isn't it all part of the nature of the beast per say.
i for one am more than happy that these small instances happen................even if it was me!!!!!!!!!!
because where else am going to receive such nice timepieces and customer service at such a low cost.
don't worry it will be fixed and all will be forgotten.......


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## Bertelsen (Oct 24, 2010)

Triton said:


> Hi Scott and welcome to WUS.
> The mis-alignment of the GMT hand on your Ocean Vintage GMT occurred during shipment of the watch from Germany to the UK and is covered by Steinhart's warranty,


Isn´t this speculating? 
You are writing this as a fact.


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## marshallpangkey (Jul 2, 2010)

Bertelsen said:


> Isn´t this speculating?
> You are writing this as a fact.


hahahaha great point

this exact same thing happened to me, after I made a post abt my new nav-b chrono, I had a tiny complaint and I immediately got bombarded by overly-defensive people :s

Scott, I guess you got unlucky man, the only thing you can do is ship it back to them - it sucks but s**t happens u know? if u got turned off by the brand due to loss of trust its understandable, if you ship it back im sure itll come back perfect. Good luck with your decision!


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## Bertelsen (Oct 24, 2010)

I think its best if people aren´t that overly-defensive. 
It is damaging (in this case, Steinhart). 
Triton is writing as he is representing Steinhart, other people in this thread is saying this as well. 
People will possibly stumble through this thread if they are searching after this particular timepiece, maybe they read just a few posts
of this thread, and make up their mind.

I´ve had my fair share of defective problems, both Rolex, brand new cars and so on. 
Everyone thats over 15 years old knows that ultimately its humans who make what we buy, not everything can be perfect. 
Write this, say you are sorry, the manufacturer will sort it out. 

Also, I think its great that people speak up, that way we can all improve.

Scott:
I´m sorry to hear that your new watch came like this. 
Its not exactly the same, but for many many years ago I saved up to a Rolex Daytona, it took me years!
It was the first time I´ve ever used so much money on a watch. 

It was also my first chronograph, I tried it when I came home after buying it at the AD. 
When I was reseting the chrono it jumped to 10 sec, every time. 

I brought it back to the AD, disappointed like never before!
It took me two months to get it back from service, after that it was dead to me. 
Dead as a roadkill skunk. 

It took some time, but I love it now, it has a funny story behind it.
I hope you will experience the same thing as me, it developed a special relationship to that watch.


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## hooperman42 (May 12, 2006)

Goodnight just send it back for goodness sakes


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## Jeep99dad (Sep 4, 2009)

Triton said:


> Hi Scott and welcome to WUS.
> 
> The issue you are experiencing has nothing to do with poor quality control, as you put it. Steinhart's quality control is very well en par with that of the rest of the industry's, no matter where the brand is located and no matter what anybody says, or better, speculates! All watches get controlled in two stages, once before they leave the assembler in Switzerland and then again before they get shipped from Augsburg, Germany to the customers. Both times by master watchmakers. In this process, one of the things that always gets checked, is the alignment of the hands, especially those using the ETA 2893-2 and the ETA Valjoux 7750 because of their complications.
> 
> The mis-alignment of the GMT hand on your Ocean Vintage GMT occurred during shipment of the watch from Germany to the UK and is covered by Steinhart's warranty, although it should rather be covered by ETA's warranty, as this issue sometimes occurs due to the construction of the mass-produced movement. So maybe before bursting in here and making rude accusations regarding the quality control towards Steinhart, you should've maybe simply contacted Mr. Steinhart, who would have taken the time to explain the details to you and given you his FedEx account number with which you could've returned the watch for service, although you bought it from a reseller.


<| This is a most disappointing post from a seasonned member, very defensive which turned into an aggressive post... that's how it felt when I read it, far more than the OP's IMHO.. especially if Triton does not work for Steinhart in the first place.
His next post finishing with a comment about Steinhart not being for the OP is pure BS!:-|
The OP bougt a watch, spent several hundred of his hard eanred $ and his watch is defective, so he is disappointed and has the right to be! He maybe has emailed Steinhart and did not receive an answer because they were close for the holiday si in the meantime he posts his experience in the forum ad is courteous about it... so why get on him rather than provide constructive feedback and maybe make him more comfortable about the situation...
Also I have chosent to remain quiet on other posts with quality issues on steinhart watches, but since this post got me hot, and others where Steinhart suporters just become so defensive, I'll say that out of 4 watches I got from them, 2 had issues. I contacted Steinhart and handled it on my own without posting anything but this is BS now! I have had it with the KoolAid drinkers and defensive supporters of the brand who act like they work for Steinhart OR make us feel like they can talk of his behalf. You can't! You shouldn;t as your posts probably do Steinhart more harm than help... Just my 2 cents, sorry for SPECULATING here:-s 
Honestly I am also a collector and have bought many watches from many sources in a wide price range and I still get disappointed when a new watch comes in ewith a defect. it is also an inconvenience! And yes it seems there ahve been more issues with Steinhart watches recently... I think it is important for people to know and Steinhart too. maybe they chnaged a part supplier, asembler... and something got lost in tansalation, the new guy is not performing as well.... I don't know but it is worth looking into.
and YES Steimart sells far more no defective watches than they do the defective ones, sure, as UWE pointed out. Poeple are jst more prone to complain and give praise it seems. But still there does seem to be a trend recently 
I will also stand 100% behind steinhart's customer service, they WILL make it right at their expense and have thebest of intention!:-! Love steinhart watches and am actually looking to buy another... but this kind of posts are just an unacceptable answer to me even though I know Triton is a respected member. Just my opinion... oh and finally, I did have the exact same issue with agMT watch equipped with the ETA 2893, and it was not shipping... It was a defect... slipped through QC.. it happens!

Rant over:-d

OP: sorry about your experience, Steinhart makes great watches overall and have outstanding CS, but lkike with any other brands a SMALL % do have defects!
BEst of luck!


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## Riker (Mar 31, 2007)

Threads getting a little heated.....

Scott, not the best way to begin your time here on WUS & the Steinhart forum but welcome anyway. 

Bummer about the watch mate no doubt, but it happens every day to many, many people & that is just the way it is. Not an excuse but you look at any watch brand whether it is Steinhart, Panerai, Rolex, Seiko, etc, etc, etc & you see a pattern. Small, but it is a pattern that not every watch arrives 100% perfect.

Contact Steinhart by both email & then phone if need be & let them sort this out for you. 
Let us know how you get on Scott & if you have any questions please just ask me.

Fella's, please relax & enjoy it here. Don't take comments as a personal afront, it is a public forum & many varied comments come with the territory. Triton is one of the good guys & a good friend to me. He is passionate about Steinhart as am I & occassionally things happen the way they do to help us maintain the passion that is Steinhart & watches in general..... ;-)


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## primerak (Sep 1, 2010)

Scott - Without re-hashing what's already been said so eloquently by many others I also had QC issues with my watch, and I was put off on the brand NOT by my issues or by Steinhart but more so by the overzealous one sided comments by a few bordering on sarcasm and accusations. Gunter immediately turned me back onto his watches (have another on order) by going above and beyond to make sure things were perfect, being completely apologetic along the way - kudos to him. Be patient, persistent, and most importantly try and deal with Gunter if possible he will make it right. Finally no one should dictate which brand is right for your but yourself...get it fixed and enjoy your watch. Cheers.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f275/bad-paint-finish-aviation-gmt-458307.html


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## Triton (Oct 17, 2006)

Well, it seems some of you are offended by the way I share first hand information with the forum community? I guess, it was a mistake to think that I can voice my opinion like everybody else here. Okay, my bad, lesson learned! I'll leave you to believing what you want to believe and refrain from further participating in threads like this.


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## kew (Jan 22, 2007)

Triton said:


> Well, it seems some of you are offended by the way I share first hand information with the forum community? I guess, it was a mistake to think that I can voice my opinion like everybody else here. Okay, my bad, lesson learned! I'll leave you to believing what you want to believe and refrain from further participating in threads like this.


I thought you might say something to redeem yourself in this post, but it never happened! :roll: :-d


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

Hi Scott,

first of all, welcome to the forum and to our community, where people share their passion for watches!
I don't mean to heat this discussion more than it is, but I would like to share my 2cents:

1. your watch is deffective and no matter who is here to blame, Steinhart will resolve it
2. Triton was speaking from his professional experience and if he restrained himself from the second part of his reply, he would have every right to say what he has to say. To say that your accusations were rude was IMHO unneccesary and rude.
3. You say that you bought the watch from UK retailer. But here you come and say that only Steinharts QC is poor!? How come? Shouldn't this reatiler also check that the watch he is sending you is perfect? And if he did check the watch, isn't it obvious, that the watch could have gotten damaged during transit from UK retailer to you? Or is it just a very very very unlikely coincidence, that 3 QC departments missed this fault? Or is this retailer just a dropshipper? In every case, lesson learned, that buying from the source might save you some dissapointment in the future.
4. We all will probably agree, that watches are made by human beings. So are the posts here, they are posted by humans with their tempers and attitudes, so if we all try to calm down, this place can be only better...
5. I agree that overly defensive fans of Steinhart (or any other brand) make only harm to Steinhart, I was always saying it and this is only confirmation of my previous comments on this topic...

So those were my thoughts after reading this thread, I believe we are all friends, we all share the same passion, so why being harsh to each other? 
Relax...


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

CzechMate said:


> Hi Scott,
> 
> first of all, welcome to the forum and to our community, where people share their passion for watches!
> I don't mean to heat this discussion more than it is, but I would like to share my 2cents:
> ...


Very good CzechMate. Lets all take a deep breath - exhale. Everything will be all right. Gunter will solve Scott's problem.


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## ukwatch (Jan 6, 2011)

"Scott, not the best way to begin your time here on WUS & the Steinhart forum but welcome anyway"

Yes. He has a disappointment with his new purchase, writes about it on a public forum, says nothing wrong and gets chastised. Lovely time for him. 

Mr. Riker you do try to be helpful, but you are also involved in so very many of the defensive threads along with Mr. Triton on this forum where the purchaser who has experienced a problem with their purchase is left feeling as if they were the actual problem and not the watch in hand. I don't believe this is at all intentional but know that this can hurt Steinharts business more than an OP posting about their problem. You both have stated consistently you don't work for Steinhart but that usually comes later in an exchange.


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

Just for the record, I know one guy in US who has owned 167 Rolex watches during his life. Now he only owns 16 of them and never wears them. Aside from the fact that some of them vere deffective OTB, the reason for not wearing them anymore is, that he got tired of RUSA "no parts - f**k you" policy. Almost every repair he needed on his watches took months of negotiations and then months to get it repaired and returned and cost him fortune. You would think "what a horrible brand?", wouldn't you? And yet they make one of the finest watches and make many people happy (aside from those who own them just because it's Rolex). 

I like Rolex and this would never stop me from buying their watch, at least one, if i once saved the money...


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## Bertelsen (Oct 24, 2010)

I wonder what Steinhart thinks of its affiliates. 
There is a reason that people react like this, you may live in your dream world, but you are hurting Steinhart!
People are saying this, try to see it.


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## grabtime (Mar 5, 2010)

I think that the best approach for the future would be to have a sticky on the Steinhart forum of the procedure for people to take before they complain.

- Have you contacted Steinhart and made your problem known and not received a reply within 5 business days? If yes please go to option 2
- Is your watch covered by warranty? If yes please go to option 1
- Did you buy through a Third party? If yes please go to option 3

The contact details for Steinhart are:

Option 1
Tel: +49 (0)821 5433800
Fax: +49 (0)821 5433801

[email protected]

Option 2
If you have not heard back within 5 business days please pm (Representative on the forum)

Option 3
Please approach the Dealer.

This would avoid these confrontations somewhat and be of more use perhaps.

Just an idea...


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## Finnanhaddie (Jan 5, 2011)

Triton said:


> Well, it seems some of you are offended by the way I share first hand information with the forum community? I guess, it was a mistake to think that I can voice my opinion like everybody else here. Okay, my bad, lesson learned! I'll leave you to believing what you want to believe and refrain from further participating in threads like this.


What 'first hand information' would this be in respect to this thread? The only first hand information in this particular instance will come direct from Gunter Steinhart to me personally. Nobody else.

For my part I wasn't particularly offended by your initial post, and subsequent replies, only surprised. I guess you're quick to anger, which is just how some of us are made. Certainly makes for interesting reading though. There were a few who know you better, who offered kind words of praise in support of your posts, and I'm convinced that you are a great guy to get along with, as well as a good friend to many.

You did introduce yourself as a 'business partner', and gave the strong impression that you spoke directly on behalf of the Steinhart brand. An employee simply wouldn't behave in such a manner to the customer.

Please don't go in the huff if other respondents react to you as you would react to others. As I would say to the children, c'mon dinnae spit oot yer dummie, an' act lik a greitin-faced bairn.

Incidentally Gunter has been in contact with me via e-mail. As already intimated by others a very polite and accommodating gentleman.

Cheers,

Scott.


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## submersible.dk (Feb 20, 2007)

Just get your local watchmaker to do the job. This can happen to all watches. This has nothing to do with the control of the watch before shipping. If that was the case there would never be any problems with a watch. 

If your watchmaker can do the job I think Gunter will cover it. 

Remember it is just a watch. 

Torben


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## ky70 (Jun 3, 2009)

submersible.dk said:


> Just get your local watchmaker to do the job. This can happen to all watches. This has nothing to do with the control of the watch before shipping. If that was the case there would never be any problems with a watch.
> 
> If your watchmaker can do the job I think Gunter will cover it.
> 
> ...


Looks like OP is getting the assistance he needs so I'm sure a happy ending is around the corner but the "it is just a watch" comment can be applied to anything as there are certainly much more important things in this life, BUT we still should expect to get what we paid for regardless of it just being a watch.


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

It's safe to say that this thread has run course; both sides have had their say in the matter and there's been enough back and forth finger pointing. At this point many of the posts are only repeating information that was already covered. I'm going to leave this thread open to allow the OP to post any updates specific to the repair of his Steinhart, but if there are anymore posts with creeping animosity, I'll either close it or delete posts without further explanation. WUS is intended to be a place where watch enthusiasts can exchange information in a pleasant and respectful environment. Although flare-ups such as these are bound to happen on occasion, it's time to bring this thread back to the discussion of a specific watch issue. Thank you.


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## edoze (Mar 30, 2010)

Finnanhaddie said:


> As I would say to the children, c'mon dinnae spit oot yer dummie, an' act lik a greitin-faced bairn.


Great Scot (I presume)!

Well this thread certainly has been thought-provoking and interesting. I don't want to add anything off-thread so glad the issue's being sorted.


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## BaCaitlin (Sep 6, 2009)

Like most have said already, problems do occur from time to time. All watch manufacturers have them, not just Steinhart. If you don't believe me, see pic below (borrowed from John Wilson in the Omega forum - hope it's okay with you John). John only had it for 30 hours.










For what it's worth, I bought a MC II from Steinhart and received great customer service from him and his staff.


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## exxondus (Sep 10, 2007)

BaCaitlin said:


> Like most have said already, problems do occur from time to time. All watch manufacturers have them, not just Steinhart. If you don't believe me, see pic below (borrowed from John Wilson in the Omega forum - hope it's okay with you John). John only had it for 30 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe its just me. but from that Omega pic, I tht I saw the helium valve directly perpendicular with the 20th minute marker!!..ok maybe its just the pic...


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## H.Solo (May 15, 2007)

exxondus said:


> Maybe its just me. but from that Omega pic, I tht I saw the helium valve directly perpendicular with the 20th minute marker!!..ok maybe its just the pic...


Well, that's no helium valve (that's at the opposite site of the case) but what would you say about the central chronograph hand? ;-)

Issues arrise with all mechanical watches regardless the initial price point... I'd say it's only fair and square to give the manufacturers the chance to help you out before you go to a public watchforum to tell anyone in the world about your experiences with them.

I can't help but to say only the very best about Mr. Steinhart and his team... you won't get more customer service anywhere else!


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## exxondus (Sep 10, 2007)

H.Solo said:


> Well, that's no helium valve (that's at the opposite site of the case) but what would you say about the central chronograph hand? ;-)
> 
> Issues arrise with all mechanical watches regardless the initial price point... I'd say it's only fair and square to give the manufacturers the chance to help you out before you go to a public watchforum to tell anyone in the world about your experiences with them.
> 
> I can't help but to say only the very best about Mr. Steinhart and his team... you won't get more customer service anywhere else!


Ah, I wasnt clear.

I was refering to the crown at the left hand side of the case. I tht it was the helium valvue and gen omegas usually have it slightly higher so that when you draw a diagonal, it does not hit the 20th min marker perpendiculy across it. It usually is a go btw of thr 15th min and 20th min marker.

This is just one of the ways to spot the reps. Anyway, like I mentioned, its probably just the pic i guess.


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

exxondus said:


> Maybe its just me. but from that Omega pic, I tht I saw the helium valve directly perpendicular with the 20th minute marker!!..ok maybe its just the pic...


You are right. But I believe chronoghraph Seamaster has the He valve positioned slightly different than non-chrono. Are you suggesting what I think you are suggesting?


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

exxondus said:


> Ah, I wasnt clear.
> 
> I was refering to the crown at the left hand side of the case. I tht it was the helium valvue and gen omegas usually have it slightly higher so that when you draw a diagonal, it does not hit the 20th min marker perpendiculy across it. It usually is a go btw of thr 15th min and 20th min marker.
> 
> This is just one of the ways to spot the reps. Anyway, like I mentioned, its probably just the pic i guess.


So you were suggesting it.
SM chrono has HE valve directly at 10, whereas non-chrono has it slightly above 10. ;-)


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## hooperman42 (May 12, 2006)

Ditto


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## BaCaitlin (Sep 6, 2009)

exxondus said:


> Ah, I wasnt clear.
> 
> I was refering to the crown at the left hand side of the case. I tht it was the helium valvue and gen omegas usually have it slightly higher so that when you draw a diagonal, it does not hit the 20th min marker perpendiculy across it. It usually is a go btw of thr 15th min and 20th min marker.
> 
> This is just one of the ways to spot the reps. Anyway, like I mentioned, its probably just the pic i guess.


I can tell you right now that John Wilson does not buy replicas, hommages, fakes or whatever you want to call it. He is a very established Omega collector.


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

CzechMate said:


> You are right. But I believe chronoghraph Seamaster has the He valve positioned slightly different than non-chrono. Are you suggesting what I think you are suggesting?


I have a Omega 2054.50 SMP and a 2598.80 SMP Chrono and the HE valve is precisely at 10 on the 2054.50 and maybe 1-2 mm higher on the 2598.80. If someone asked is they are in the same place I would say yes.


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## exxondus (Sep 10, 2007)

CzechMate said:


> So you were suggesting it.
> SM chrono has HE valve directly at 10, whereas non-chrono has it slightly above 10. ;-)


Thanks for the info. I stand corrected and apologise for my earlier post.


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

edwinwalke said:


> I have a Omega 2054.50 SMP and a 2598.80 SMP Chrono and the HE valve is precisely at 10 on the 2054.50 and maybe 1-2 mm higher on the 2598.80. If someone asked is they are in the same place I would say yes.


I have checked these models and on official pictures the non chrono 2054.50 has HEV above 10 marker and 2598.80 has it precisely at 10 marker. Can you post pictures?


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## edwinwalke (Aug 9, 2010)

CzechMate said:


> I have checked these models and on official pictures the non chrono 2054.50 has HEV above 10 marker and 2598.80 has it precisely at 10 marker. Can you post pictures?


CzechMate, you are correct. I took another look and I had it backwards. I attached the photos from the Omega website.


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## Finnanhaddie (Jan 5, 2011)

Uwe W. said:


> It's safe to say that this thread has run course; both sides have had their say in the matter and there's been enough back and forth finger pointing. At this point many of the posts are only repeating information that was already covered. I'm going to leave this thread open to allow the OP to post any updates specific to the repair of his Steinhart, but if there are anymore posts with creeping animosity, I'll either close it or delete posts without further explanation. WUS is intended to be a place where watch enthusiasts can exchange information in a pleasant and respectful environment. Although flare-ups such as these are bound to happen on occasion, it's time to bring this thread back to the discussion of a specific watch issue. Thank you.


I have to agree. I didn't choose my words wisely in my initial post; it was a bit of a knee jerk reaction.....a retrospect always has a regret involved.

I should receive a replacement watch during the course of this week, and I will follow up with a much brighter post to bring this thread to a close. I may even attempt a watch review!

Cheers,

Scott.


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## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

Finnanhaddie said:


> I have to agree. I didn't choose my words wisely in my initial post; it was a bit of a knee jerk reaction.....a retrospect always has a regret involved.
> 
> I should receive a replacement watch during the course of this week, and I will follow up with a much brighter post to bring this thread to a close. I may even attempt a watch review!
> 
> ...


What? You may??! You must!!! ;-)
At least short pictorial... And remember, no lume shot, no wristshot, no review... Those are the basics...


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## Well Then Lets See (Dec 30, 2015)

DIY ...... I added a DATE MAGNIFIER to my Vintage GMT .... happy with the watch over all .... except that I felt there was too much empty space on the watch face .... thus the DATE MAGNIFIER ..... and the watch looks complete to me by doing so


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## whoismikejones (Oct 12, 2017)

Bertelsen said:


> I think its best if people aren´t that overly-defensive.
> It is damaging (in this case, Steinhart).
> Triton is writing as he is representing Steinhart, other people in this thread is saying this as well.
> People will possibly stumble through this thread if they are searching after this particular timepiece, maybe they read just a few posts
> of this thread, and make up their mind.


Nearly 7 years later, and here I am in this exact predicament.

Gotta thank my dude Triton, for making this decision a bit easier. He always knows what's best for me. :-d


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