# Authentic or not? Cartier Santos Galbee



## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

Hi,
I have lurked around this forum for some time and finally registrered.
I hope someone can help me to confirm that this Cartier Santos is authentic.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

We're long past due for compensation for this.


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

Another first time poster asking if the fake watch is indeed a fake.


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## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

Sorry guys👻 just wanted to ask the experts but if you don't feel like helping out you don't need to do it 
One post in a forum needs to be the first one, everybody will be new in a place at some point. Usually I'm at the purseforum with the rest of the ladies and maybe I should have stayed there


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

EmmaS said:


> Sorry guys👻 just wanted to ask the experts but if you don't feel like helping out you don't need to do it
> One post in a forum needs to be the first one, everybody will be new in a place at some point. Usually I'm at the purseforum with the rest of the ladies and maybe I should have stayed there


The watch is a very bad fake, hopefully you did not purchase it.


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## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

watchmandragon said:


> The watch is a very bad fake, hopefully you did not purchase it.


No I have not purchased it. Thank you than we know one can't trust Chrono24


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

EmmaS said:


> No I have not purchased it. Thank you than we know one can't trust Chrono24


Can you post the sales link on Chrono24 for us to take a closer look.

I said it was a fake based on how the date looks.


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## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

watchmandragon said:


> Can you post the sales link on Chrono24 for us to take a closer look.
> 
> I said it was a fake based on how the date looks.


Yes true, it's looks a bit off actually when you say it. The photos I got sent are of better quality than on C24. 





Cartier Santos 1172961 | Ref. 1172961 Watches on Chrono24


Find low prices for 17 Cartier ref. 1172961 watches on Chrono24. Compare deals and buy a ref. 1172961 watch.




www.chrono24.com


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

The Chrono24 pictures you posted are much better than the pictures in your OP.


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## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

watchmandragon said:


> The Chrono24 pictures you posted are much better than the pictures in your OP.


I think the ones that the seller sent me and I posted in this thread are clearer than on C24.


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## creepycrawling (Jul 8, 2017)

I put the serial into the Cartier website and it couldn't find it. That makes me feel fake but it looks real.

For those calling this a bad fake, what makes this stand out as a fake for you? 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

The date on the date wheel looks like font is not bold enough and bracelet does not align properly on SEL's.


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## creepycrawling (Jul 8, 2017)

watchmandragon said:


> The date on the date wheel looks like font is not bold enough and bracelet does not align properly on SEL's.


I've looked at a large bunch of galbee models and they all seem to have that font. I'll trust your judgement though, I haven't owned a galbee.

The main issue for me is still the serial not being validated on the Cartier site. But maybe very old watch serials aren't on the site.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


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## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

creepycrawling said:


> I've looked at a large bunch of galbee models and they all seem to have that font. I'll trust your judgement though, I haven't owned a galbee.
> 
> The main issue for me is still the serial not being validated on the Cartier site. But maybe very old watch serials aren't on the site.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


Okey, thank you. It could be that it's old, I have a very old tank (70's) which I know for certain it's auth and it serial doesn't work on the Cartier site.


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

creepycrawling said:


> I've looked at a large bunch of galbee models and they all seem to have that font. I'll trust your judgement though, I haven't owned a galbee.
> 
> The main issue for me is still the serial not being validated on the Cartier site. But maybe very old watch serials aren't on the site.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


By no means am I an expert on Cartier watches. I said fake based on the OP's pictures in the first post. The follow up pictures on Chrono24 look like it could be authentic.

Hopefully somebody else can chime in.


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## M_Milaguet (Mar 8, 2016)

Well... let's start by establishing that this is not a Santos Galbee to start with, but rather a Santos de Cartier (sometimes known as a Santos carree).The Santos de Cartier was introduced in 1978.
It doesn't look like a fake to me (but I am of rather limited expertise)


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## M_Milaguet (Mar 8, 2016)

I looked at the Chrono24 listing... there's nothing to suggest it's fake.
I have the exact same model here in my hands. The date font is the same.
I cannot for the life of me understand why watchmandrago would think it's a fake (unless you are under the impression for some weird reason it's a Santos Galbee)


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

M_Milaguet said:


> I looked at the Chrono24 listing... there's nothing to suggest it's fake.
> I have the exact same model here in my hands. The date font is the same.
> I cannot for the life of me understand why watchmandrago would think it's a fake (unless you are under the impression for some weird reason it's a Santos Galbee)


Originally I said fake based on the date wheel in the picture in the first post to his thread. In the Chrono24 pictures it does not look like a fake.

Are you sure the Chrono24 pictures of the watch you posted is the same watch in your first post as the screws on the bezel in your first post picture are at different settings in your first post picture.


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## M_Milaguet (Mar 8, 2016)

watchmandragon said:


> Originally I said fake based on the date wheel in the picture in the first post to his thread. In the Chrono24 pictures it does not look like a fake.


To be honest, I think you were bang out of order... it's good that you realise you were wrong, but to suggest at first that the poster is less than genuine ("Another first time poster asking if the fake watch is indeed a fake"), then to pronouncee with such absolute certainty this watch is a fake ("The watch is a very bad fake, hopefully you did not purchase it. "), based on a date wheel with which I can see absolutely nothing wrong in the first picture posted (again, I am comparing it with the very same watch in my hands), only then to admit you are not an expert on Cartier watches...
It begs the question: what are you doing commenting on this in the first place.

And just for full disclosure: I have absolutely nothing to do with the seller in Mexico, or Chrono24... I am based in the UK.


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## adk225 (Feb 29, 2020)

M_Milaguet said:


> I looked at the Chrono24 listing... there's nothing to suggest it's fake.
> I have the exact same model here in my hands. The date font is the same.
> I cannot for the life of me understand why watchmandrago would think it's a fake (unless you are under the impression for some weird reason it's a Santos Galbee)


I think the first instinct on WUS is to shout "fake" whenever a new user posts a watch asking if it's authentic, and 99% of the time they are fake. Maybe this belongs in the other 1%. Thank you for comparing against your watch and being objective.
I'm not a Cartier expert, but comparing the posted pictures against others for sale from reputable dealers, I agree that anything doesn't stand out as being a "very bad" fake as suggested earlier in the thread.


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## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

M_Milaguet said:


> To be honest, I think you were bang out of order... it's good that you realise you were wrong, but to suggest at first that the poster is less than genuine ("Another first time poster asking if the fake watch is indeed a fake"), then to pronouncee with such absolute certainty this watch is a fake ("The watch is a very bad fake, hopefully you did not purchase it. "), based on a date wheel with which I can see absolutely nothing wrong in the first picture posted (again, I am comparing it with the very same watch in my hands), only then to admit you are not an expert on Cartier watches...
> It begs the question: what are you doing commenting on this in the first place.
> 
> And just for full disclosure: I have absolutely nothing to do with the seller in Mexico, or Chrono24... I am based in the UK.


Thank you for you objective and helpfull reply, very much appreciated. Have a nice evening! Yes I've seen some peolle posting watches that looks like they are straight from a market and I can understand that people on the forum find it annoying. Thank you for correcting me, just before I posted I read a post here about a Galbee and as you say these are very different.


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## M_Milaguet (Mar 8, 2016)

To the original poster, here are the notes I have on this watch (gleaned from various sites on the web):

In the late Seventies, when Cartier was looking to capitalise on the newly developed "luxury sports" watch sector (high-end pieces manufactured in stainless steel, exemplified by Audemars Piguet's Royal Oak and, later, the Patek Philippe Nautilus) it chose the Santos as the means to do so.

In 1978 the watch was redesigned and renamed Santos De Cartier by then-head of marketing Alain Dominique Perrin, who commissioned its first steel and gold models, adding an integrated bracelet in place of a traditional leather strap. Perrin executed another neat twist: the use of a part-gold case and bracelet. Known as "bimetal", the concept went on to influence watch designs into the Eighties and beyond.
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In 1978, Cartier redesigned and renamed the Santos de Cartier, giving the watch an integrated bracelet instead of the traditional leather strap. Cartier made the case and bracelet out of stainless steel, a true change in course for the maison that had only worked with precious metals before this time. Cartier also added 18k gold to the case and bracelet to give the watch a touch of luxury. This "bimetal" gold-steel design would go on to be extremely popular in the 1980s (think _Wall Street_'s Gordon Gecko), and, by the way, is making a bit of a comeback (our December 2018 Swiss watch exports report showing a rise in bimetal exports). Soon after releasing the bimetal Santos, Cartier also released an all-steel model.

As throughout the history of Santos, the key updates here are subtle, but timely. The case, originally inspired by the silhouette of the Eiffel Tower
Needless to say, the Santos cemented its status as an icon and this year, you can rediscover the latest version of this famous square-case timepiece. So what are the changes? It still retains the square shape that speaks of the refinement and symmetry in the Parisian geometry of that time, as seen in the four angular corners of the Eiffel Tower.

The eight screws on the bezel also remain. These were a miniature tribute to the abundant mechanical steel structures associated with the golden age of urban architecture.

From a design perspective, this very first Santos bears all the hallmarks of a Cartier watch. Its contours clearly allude to the steel bridges spanning the Seine, and the monuments dotted around the capital. A square bezel set with screws, stylised Roman numerals, a railroad minute track, a sapphire cabochon set in the crown and a leather strap&#8230; form and function, elegance and practicality merge in this miniature object.
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The movement should be a Cartier Caliber 077 (based on an ETA 2671)
----------------------------------------------------

In 1987, the Santos was completely revised, renamed and relaunched as the Santos Galbée. The case lost its boxy looks and became more curved around the lugs, fitting better on the wrist than the original Santos.


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## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

adk225 said:


> I think the first instinct on WUS is to shout "fake" whenever a new user posts a watch asking if it's authentic, and 99% of the time they are fake. Maybe this belongs in the other 1%. Thank you for comparing against your watch and being objective.
> I'm not a Cartier expert, but comparing the posted pictures against others for sale from reputable dealers, I agree that anything doesn't stand out as being a "very bad" fake as suggested earlier in the thread.


Yes I have full understanding of that and if you're in here every day it gets rather tiring. Thank you for your input as well.


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## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

M_Milaguet said:


> To the original poster, here are the notes I have on this watch (gleaned from various sites on the web):
> 
> In the late Seventies, when Cartier was looking to capitalise on the newly developed "luxury sports" watch sector (high-end pieces manufactured in stainless steel, exemplified by Audemars Piguet's Royal Oak and, later, the Patek Philippe Nautilus) it chose the Santos as the means to do so.
> 
> ...


Lovely read, thank you very much. Makes me want to get it even more. ?


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## plohmann (Jan 7, 2007)

EmmaS said:


> Yes true, it's looks a bit off actually when you say it. The photos I got sent are of better quality than on C24.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not the same watch. Compare the screws on the bezel.


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## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

plohmann said:


> It's not the same watch. Compare the screws on the bezel.


Yes I agree, didn't think about it at first. They look more rounded. Scratches etc. also looks different on the photos they sent vs ones in the ad. Will check what the seller says.


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

plohmann said:


> It's not the same watch. Compare the screws on the bezel.


I noted the same observation in my above post. It appears the picture in the first post does not match the Chrono24 pictures. Seems odd to me.


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## M_Milaguet (Mar 8, 2016)

plohmann said:


> It's not the same watch. Compare the screws on the bezel.


Well spotted! Now OP, I would definitely ask the seller about that!


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

M_Milaguet said:


> Well spotted! Now OP, I would definitely ask the seller about that!


I spotted the differences in the pictures in my above post. The watches are definitely not the same watches in the Chrono24 pictures compared to the first pictures in the OP post.

The screws are aligned differently in the pictures and it appears the bezel may also be different.


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

Also the screws on the bracelet in the Chrono24 pictures are in different alignment than the picture in the OP first post to this thread.

They are definitely not the same watch.


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## teckel12 (Oct 22, 2019)

Considering this isn't even the same watch as on Chrono24, there's some funny business going on either with the seller or the OP. Considering this is the OP's first post, and 99% or the time a first post about a fake watch is a fake. I'll lean that way till I hear back from the Chrono24 seller.


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## M_Milaguet (Mar 8, 2016)

In any case OP, I would sooner be suspicious of the watch on chrono24 than the one you posted in this thread...
The screws on the bezel are not just decorative on this model: they are used to open up the case, which is front-loading.

Somebody (not a watchmaker judging by the hash he made of it) attempted to open the case of the chrono24 watch with a ill fitting screw driver (look at the condition of the screws at 10o'clock, and 11o'clock).

Ask for more pictures so that you could see the state of the bracelet and the cabochon before you decide anything though.

Also, for reference, here's how another poster on these forums (named Trel) described opening the Santos de Cartier case:
"My particular model is a first-generation. That means it uses a one-piece, front-loading case construction with a split stem. The eight screws in the bezel go all the way through to slotted bolts in the back, just like the early Royal Oak or Nautilus. It is powered by the Cartier Cal 077 which is an ETA 2671, a fine, robust movement. The integrated bracelet is held together with these bizarre pins that are pressure-fit via tethered screws. It is the most bizarre arrangement I've ever seen and I am not surprised Cartier later abandoned it. The rest is pure Cartier in terms of fit, finish, and attention to detail. The deployant clasp, for example, bears the interlinked C's and is sharply curved, intending to be worn further to the side of the wrist so that, when the clasp is closed, the 'C's are exactly centered on the back of your wrist. 

Later models also moved away from the one-piece case, because its distinctiveness doesn't outweigh its inconvenience. "


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

teckel12 said:


> Considering this isn't even the same watch as on Chrono24, there's some funny business going on either with the seller or the OP. Considering this is the OP's first post, and 99% or the time a first post about a fake watch is a fake. I'll lean that way till I hear back from the Chrono24 seller.


In my humble opinion, the picture of the watch in the OP first post to this thread appears to be a fake and the watch is not the same watch in the Chrono24 pictures.

Definitely something odd going on here with those pictures.


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## M_Milaguet (Mar 8, 2016)

watchmandragon said:


> In my humble opinion, the picture of the watch in the OP first post to this thread appears to be a fake and the watch is not the same watch in the Chrono24 pictures.


Based on? The date?
I am curious, because if that is a fake, then mine is a fake too...
And given it has just got back from service, it must be a good one to have fooled my watchmaker as well...


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

M_Milaguet said:


> Based on? The date?
> I am curious, because if that is a fake, then mine is a fake too...
> And given it has just got back from service, it must be a good one to have fooled my watchmaker as well...


The bracelet in the OP first post pictures appear to have too much play in them and are too small for the watch case lugs.

Check out your bracelet to see if you have a good fit to the lugs.


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## M_Milaguet (Mar 8, 2016)

watchmandragon said:


> The bracelet in the OP first post pictures appear to have too much play in them and are too small for the watch case lugs.
> 
> Check out your bracelet to see if you have a good fit to the lugs.


I do not have a bracelet with mine...

But here is a picture from the HauteHorlogerie.org website for comparison:


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

M_Milaguet said:


> I do not have a bracelet with mine...
> 
> But here is a picture from the HauteHorlogerie.org website for comparison:


That bracelet is much better fitting to the lugs compared to the one in the OP first post picture.


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## M_Milaguet (Mar 8, 2016)

watchmandragon said:


> That bracelet is much better fitting to the lugs compared to the one in the OP first post picture.


At which point I am beginning to wonder if you are trying to wind me up, troll me, or just be right at any cost...

I'll just let other posters (and hopefully someone with a bit more Cartier expertise) weigh in on the issue...


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## cba191 (May 3, 2014)

I don't know if either watch is fake, but the pics don't appear to be the same watch. That alone would make me forget about both.


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## plohmann (Jan 7, 2007)

M_Milaguet said:


> Based on? The date?
> I am curious, because if that is a fake, then mine is a fake too...
> And given it has just got back from service, it must be a good one to have fooled my watchmaker as well...


All of the screws are at aligned completely differently on the two watches. It is as clear as day if you compare the photos. They are not the same watch. This has nothing to do with your watch being fake. IBTL


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## watchmandragon (Oct 19, 2020)

M_Milaguet said:


> At which point I am beginning to wonder if you are trying to wind me up, troll me, or just be right at any cost...
> 
> I'll just let other posters (and hopefully someone with a bit more Cartier expertise) weigh in on the issue...


By no means am I trolling you or saying your Cartier is a fake. The point I was trying to make is as per my above post is that the Chrono24 pictures of the Cartier watch are not the same watch as the OP's picture in her first post to this thread. Wear your gen Cartier proudly.


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## M_Milaguet (Mar 8, 2016)

watchmandragon said:


> By no means am I trolling you or saying your Cartier is a fake. The point I was trying to make is as per my above post is that the Chrono24 pictures of the Cartier watch are not the same watch as the OP's picture in her first post to this thread. Wear your gen Cartier proudly.


There is no question the Santos pictured in this thread and the Santos on chrono24 are not the same.
But the point you were making is that the Santos pictured is fake based on the date window (the font being wrong apparently) and the bracelet (having too much play and being too small for the lugs).
I see no evidence of that; you maintained it was; hence my accusation of either trolling, or trying to be right at all costs.

The OP should obviously be very careful before she buys the watch: the discrepancy in the pictures is a massive red flag.
But if the chrono24 seller has a valid explanation, I personally do not see any evidence of either of these watches being fakes.


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## EmmaS (Nov 27, 2020)

Hi all,
Seller replied and they have mixed up the watches and the one posted by me here is a watch they will list soon and they were very regretful about it. They emphasised that both watches are authentic. I won’t be buying from them as I don’t really get the right feeling from the seller even though they may both be auth.
I will buy a Santos but will have to find a new one from another seller. 
Many thanks to all of you for your inputs and help, I will most likely be able to spot an auth one myself after this 😊


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