# ETA Powermatic 80 question...



## Rhodocene (Feb 11, 2014)

Hello!

I originally posted this on the Public forum (thought more people would see it there), but was told I should move it here, so:

I've searched all over the web, but haven't found a conclusive answer. Does the ETA Powermatic 80 actually contain a plastic escapement ala System 51, or is it some kind of other material? The only picture I managed to find was a 3D render which shows a similar design to the System 51. If it's so, do you think it has any impact on the long term reliability/serviceability of watches containing said movement?


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## Rhodocene (Feb 11, 2014)

Has noone taken one apart ever? I'm really curious...


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

Even if it's plastic, it's still Swiss Made


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## Rhodocene (Feb 11, 2014)

lvt said:


> Even if it's plastic, it's still Swiss Made


It's IPlastic :-!


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## Rhodocene (Feb 11, 2014)

So, I was just randomly looking at some watches in a magazine, including an ad for a Tissot Tradition Automatic Powermatic 80 which has an open heart. You can clearly see the escapement, which although is of a slightly different design, is still made of metal, with two pallet jewels on the ends. Here's a large picture off the internet, cropped:








So... mistery solved.


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## Archer (Apr 23, 2009)

gwet432 said:


> So, I was just randomly looking at some watches in a magazine, including an ad for a Tissot Tradition Automatic Powermatic 80 which has an open heart. You can clearly see the escapement, which although is of a slightly different design, is still made of metal, with two pallet jewels on the ends. Here's a large picture off the internet, cropped:
> View attachment 11674026
> 
> 
> So... mistery solved.


They should probably fire that illustrator...


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## Deli (Jul 19, 2014)

Don't you like the exit pallet ?


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## Archer (Apr 23, 2009)

Well in the Powermatic tech guide, this is what they show the escapement as:





I think whoever made that image was not given proper instruction regarding what to draw...


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## Rhodocene (Feb 11, 2014)

Archer said:


> Well in the Powermatic tech guide, this is what they show the escapement as:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well... this clearly is a REAL photo:







Zoomed in and cropped:








It looks exactly the same as the promotional pic above.
I really don't know what to say...:-s


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## Archer (Apr 23, 2009)

gwet432 said:


> It looks exactly the same as the promotional pic above.
> I really don't know what to say...:-s


Well, since one of the features of the Powermatic 80 is a synthetic escapement, and that is clearly not a synthetic escapement...not sure what's going on there.


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

I think I would stay with the old ETA movements.

Sent from my LG-H630 using Tapatalk


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## Jon Asia (Apr 25, 2017)

Some people said it has plastic parts. I don't know if they are really plastic or new material that people can't identify and mistake it for plastic. I ordered Mido Ocean Star Captain V powered by Mido Calibe 80 movement. I was concerned about this issue and wrote to Mido about it. Here is the reply from Mido:

This is the reply from Mido: 

Hello Jon,

Thank you for your message. We check with our Product department and get back to you as soon as possible.

Have a nice day 

MIDO Team


Hello Jon, 



Thank you for your patience. 



There is no plastic part in our Mido Caliber 80 and the running time is equal to the ETA standard movement. Mido movement with silicon balance-spring will be even more performing and during more time than any other movement without silicon balance-spring. 

All Mido automatic movements have an unlimited running time as long as the watch is well-maintained. 
Some of historical MIDO watches from the 20’s are still in good working condition. Furthermore, Mido ensure one additional year of warranty for all COSC certified watches, that means 3 years of warranty for chronometers. 


Regarding the after sales service, each Mido watch is serviceable, repairable. We guarantee spare parts and repair of your watch 10 years after the last date of production of the model. 


We hope this information will help you. 


We stay at your disposal for any further request. 


Have a nice day! 


Kind regards 


MIDO Team


The reply made me relieved. But I don't know whether powermatic 80 used by tissot and caliber 80 used by mido are similar.


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## emso (Jan 14, 2008)

Jon Asia said:


> Some people said it has plastic parts. I don't know if they are really plastic or new material that people can't identify and mistake it for plastic. I ordered Mido Ocean Star Captain V powered by Mido Calibe 80 movement. I was concerned about this issue and wrote to Mido about it. Here is the reply from Mido:
> 
> This is the reply from Mido:
> 
> ...


Theyre similar of course
The tissot powermatic uses plastic escapement
Mido and longines have it with normal escapement
Br
Emso

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk


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## kousikbarik (May 6, 2015)

Recently purchased powermatic 80 from AD. High quality Synthetic material used. Out of box, accuracy was around +9sec ( non cosc version). Took it into AD, they regulated +3 sec a day in 10 mins. After few days of wear , accuracy is between +1 to 2 sec a day. Movement can be easily regulated, servicable too. No worries at all. Its next generation movement. Thanks.


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## kousikbarik (May 6, 2015)

Recently purchased TISSOT powermatic 80 from AD. High quality Synthetic material used. Out of box, accuracy was around +9sec ( non cosc version). Took it into AD, they regulated +3 sec a day in 10 mins. After few days of wear , accuracy is between +1 to 2 sec a day. Movement can be easily regulated, servicable too. No worries at all. Its next generation movement. Thanks.[/QUOTE]


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## emso (Jan 14, 2008)

kousikbarik said:


> Recently purchased TISSOT powermatic 80 from AD. High quality Synthetic material used. Out of box, accuracy was around +9sec ( non cosc version). Took it into AD, they regulated +3 sec a day in 10 mins. After few days of wear , accuracy is between +1 to 2 sec a day. Movement can be easily regulated, servicable too. No worries at all. Its next generation movement. Thanks.


[/QUOTE]
To say that its a next generation movement at first it has to prove itself.
Other eta workhorses designs like 2824,2836,2892,7750 etc are in bussiness for years without too much changes of design or materials
Their patents are long gone.
Lets wait for about 10 years and we will speak about the " the next generation movement"
At the moment only movement on the market longer than the powermatic which has plastic escapement were swatch 2841& c01.211 (variant of lemania5100) used by tissot also.
Do you know that tissot proposes exchange of c01.211 movement instead repairing after 5-7 years when interval comes.
Personally have seen a lot of the plastic escapements so far and i was not so impressed, believe me

Br
Emso


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## pithy (Aug 22, 2010)

kousikbarik said:


> . . . . Its next generation movement. . . .


Sure?



emso said:


> . . . . At the moment only movement on the market longer than the powermatic which has plastic escapement were swatch 2841& c01.211 (variant of lemania5100) used by tissot also. . . .


I know - you missed your nap time.


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## kousikbarik (May 6, 2015)

May be..Do not any experience in watchmaking. Seen some posts earlier that Powermatic 80 can not be regulated or can not be serviced or repaired. Tissot AD regulated in 10 mins with special tools. The movement was introduced around 4 years back. Using powermatic since last one year without any issue. Service charges are same as eta 2824. I did not notice any issue so far. Agree with you like movement to be proved after 10 years. As per Tissot AD, High quality Synthetic material is used. After all , i am pretty happy with any Swiss made eta movement. I have never seen such accurate auto so far, believe me.


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## Outta Time (Feb 9, 2010)

The issue as far as I can see, is that plastic parts do not last. The idea behind this is the self-lubricating nature of the part, but what will this look like after twenty years? Fifty? Obviously it will be replaced and I do remember somebody at the Swatch service centre mentioning that the wheel and pallet fork is always replaced when doing a CTR. Until they decide to stop making the plastic part, and then there will be issues with the degradation of said parts.


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

The Swatch group sold millions watches with that movement a year and only a dozen of WIS questioned about the plastic parts 😂

Sent from my LG-H630 using Tapatalk


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## emso (Jan 14, 2008)

kousikbarik said:


> May be..Do not any experience in watchmaking. Seen some posts earlier that Powermatic 80 can not be regulated or can not be serviced or repaired. Tissot AD regulated in 10 mins with special tools. The movement was introduced around 4 years back. Using powermatic since last one year without any issue. Service charges are same as eta 2824. I did not notice any issue so far. Agree with you like movement to be proved after 10 years. As per Tissot AD, High quality Synthetic material is used. After all , i am pretty happy with any Swiss made eta movement. I have never seen such accurate auto so far, believe me.


Ok below is the special tool you mention
Oh and i forgot only authorised repair centers can have it.
Oh and yes my opinions are based on my experience on the mentioned movement.
P.s pitty tottaly forgot that one


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## kousikbarik (May 6, 2015)

So far 4 watches in powermatic movement in my collections 1. Tissot Courtier 2. Tissot T Classic Tradition 3. Mido Ocean Star Captain 4. Rado Coupe Classic R22876013
Very happy with this movement.

You are right special tool. Repeating once again : No plastic materials are used in Tissot , Mido and Rado. Powermatic movements can be repaired, serviced and regulated ( as per conversation with Swatch Service Center)

Thanks.


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## Archer (Apr 23, 2009)

kousikbarik said:


> So far 4 watches in powermatic movement in my collections 1. Tissot Courtier 2. Tissot T Classic Tradition 3. Mido Ocean Star Captain 4. Rado Coupe Classic R22876013
> Very happy with this movement.
> 
> You are right special tool. Repeating once again : No plastic materials are used in Tissot , Mido and Rado. Powermatic movements can be repaired, serviced and regulated ( as per conversation with Swatch Service Center)
> ...


From the Tissot/Certina Powermatic 80 technical bulletin:

"The Powermatic 80 presents the following characteristics:
- An extended spring barrel with 80 hours of power reserve
- Synthetic escapement
- New adjusting rate system of balance hairspring
- High level accuracy"

There may be different movements using the Powermatic name, but clearly some have synthetic (plastic) escapements. The same technical bulletin states that:

"Please note that COSC movements can only be adjusted and not serviced!"

The escapement also has specific rules for cleaning it (not to be put in an ultrasonic machine) and uses a specific lubricant. This is also shown in the tech guide for the TISSOT POWERMATIC 80.111.

Cheers, Al


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## kousikbarik (May 6, 2015)

1. Powermatic is a serviceable movement. In Swatch Service Center, I have seen rate for service charges for Tissot Powermatic movements are displayed on notice board.
2. The EW and pallet fork are "synthetic", on both Tissot CHR (23j) and regular (23j) versions
3. It needs a special tool to regulate the watch 
4. In technical specs, it does not say that they should not be washed and it says there is special oil for the pallet fork.
Thanks.


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## kousikbarik (May 6, 2015)

kousikbarik said:


> 1. Powermatic is a serviceable movement. In Swatch Service Center, I have seen rate for service charges for Tissot Powermatic movements are displayed on notice board.
> 2. The EW and pallet fork are "synthetic", on both Tissot CHR (23j) and regular (23j) versions
> 3. It needs a special tool to regulate the watch
> 4. In technical specs, it does not say that they should not be washed and it says there is special oil for the pallet fork.
> Thanks.


Please note that i am not a watchmaker. Whatever information collected from Swatch Service Center, I shared.


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## emso (Jan 14, 2008)

kousikbarik said:


> 1. Powermatic is a serviceable movement. In Swatch Service Center, I have seen rate for service charges for Tissot Powermatic movements are displayed on notice board.
> 2. The EW and pallet fork are "synthetic", on both Tissot CHR (23j) and regular (23j) versions
> 3. It needs a special tool to regulate the watch
> 4. In technical specs, it does not say that they should not be washed and it says there is special oil for the pallet fork.
> Thanks.


"Powermatic 80" is a tissot brandname for this movement, which has it roots in the eta 2824.
as mido and tissot are the same company i guess they use the same movement.
On those i guarantee that pallet fork(latest the oscilating weight too) and escapement are plastic.
Longines has a version of this movement but with normal pallet fork and escapement and its name is Lxxx(Exchange xxx with numbers as i forgot the numbers).

Yes it is a serviceable movement on which you need to change the escapement and pallet fork.
But with the price they come from factory its a total waste of time to repair it.
Oh and yes the escapement and pallet should not be cleaned in the machine
Why?
Because every cleaning machine has drying cycle on which a heater using hot air dries the parts from the cleaning fluids.
Hot air and plastic do not agree too well.

Br
Emso


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## kousikbarik (May 6, 2015)

emso said:


> kousikbarik said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Powermatic is a serviceable movement. In Swatch Service Center, I have seen rate for service charges for Tissot Powermatic movements are displayed on notice board.
> ...


 Thanks for sharing detailed information. But the service cost are same as eta 2824 ( as per Tissot Service Center)


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## kousikbarik (May 6, 2015)

No idea about repair cost.


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## Archer (Apr 23, 2009)

kousikbarik said:


> 1. Powermatic is a serviceable movement. In Swatch Service Center, I have seen rate for service charges for Tissot Powermatic movements are displayed on notice board.
> 2. The EW and pallet fork are "synthetic", on both Tissot CHR (23j) and regular (23j) versions
> 3. It needs a special tool to regulate the watch
> 4. In technical specs, it does not say that they should not be washed and it says there is special oil for the pallet fork.
> Thanks.


I am a watchmaker - I have the specs I received from Swatch group in front of me...

I also never indicated that the escapement could not be washed, only that putting it in an ultrasonic is prohibited. They state that just dipping it in a cleaning solvent is sufficient to clean it...


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## kousikbarik (May 6, 2015)

Archer said:


> I am a watchmaker - I have the specs I received from Swatch group in front of me...
> 
> I also never indicated that the escapement could not be washed, only that putting it in an ultrasonic is prohibited. They state that just dipping it in a cleaning solvent is sufficient to clean it...


Thanks for update. Nice discussion.In summary, Tissot Powermatic can be regulated, serviced and repaired.


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## kousikbarik (May 6, 2015)

kousikbarik said:


> Thanks for update. Nice discussion.In summary, Tissot Powermatic can be regulated, serviced and repaired.


Received update from Tissot Customer Server

Dear Mr. Koushik Barik,


Thanks for the mail. The Powermatic 80 watches can be serviced and repaired. We request you to visit any of our service centers in the below given address to verify the cause and fault if any. Spare parts are available in service center.

We assure the best possible assistance always.


Best regards,TISSOT SAWorld Customer Service


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## Deli (Jul 19, 2014)

emso said:


> Ok below is the special tool you mention
> Oh and i forgot only authorised repair centers can have it.
> Oh and yes my opinions are based on my experience on the mentioned movement.


Emso,

I have the same tool as you do, but on everyday's jobs on a classic p80, I only use the small "L" that supports the balance, with great results.
If you ever had to regulate a Tissot Open Heart, what method do you use Emso ? (since the L does fall under the dial then).
I tried to use the red T8710 without the small L, withouth much axial pressure, it works but I think it's not that great for the pivots.


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## emso (Jan 14, 2008)

Deli said:


> Emso,
> 
> I have the same tool as you do, but on everyday's jobs on a classic p80, I only use the small "L" that supports the balance, with great results.
> If you ever had to regulate a Tissot Open Heart, what method do you use Emso ? (since the L does fall under the dial then).
> I tried to use the red T8710 without the small L, withouth much axial pressure, it works but I think it's not that great for the pivots.


i have a clean 2824 mainplate with incablock which i use for hairspring work, i do centering and flattening on it.
i use that mainplate and remove and regulate the balace on it and return it and check it on the movement itself.
i move it as much as needed by the tissot technical document and scales on the red tool.
but usually if you perform the service good there is no need to regulate it, as rolex. 

yes its a pain but there is nothing else you can do about it.

i hope i helped


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## Deli (Jul 19, 2014)

emso said:


> i have a clean 2824 mainplate with incablock which i use for hairspring work, i do centering and flattening on it.
> i use that mainplate and remove and regulate the balace on it and return it and check it on the movement itself.
> i move it as much as needed by the tissot technical document and scales on the red tool.
> but usually if you perform the service good there is no need to regulate it, as rolex.
> ...


That's clever indeed !

Thanks for this tip |>


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## Watchman Dan (Jun 29, 2014)

Base Tissot and Certinas PW 80 movements are the ones with the plastic escapements and no pallet stones. They can easily be identified by their 23 Jewel markings. All other PW 80 versions having traditional metal escapements with ruby pallet stones will have 25 jewels. The exception is the Tissot "open Heart" version, which uses a traditional escapement due to it being visible, and the new Tissot COSC version ETA 80.811 which also has a Silicon hairspring.

It is advisable to steer clear of plastic escapements, owing to greater wear, breakage, and servicability issues. Lower friction with slightly greater power reserves and lower cost may not prove to be worth these advantages in the long run. Why volunteer to be a Gineua Pig when you don't have to? I personally feel Mr. Thiébaud's focus is too much on low cost, at the expense of quality. Tissot is a Swiss brand not Asian. Trying to compete with them too closely jeopardizes Tissot's reputation.


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## misa.zrzy (2 mo ago)

emso said:


> "Powermatic 80" is a tissot brandname for this movement, which has it roots in the eta 2824. as mido and tissot are the same company i guess they use the same movement. On those i guarantee that pallet fork(latest the oscilating weight too) and escapement are plastic. Longines has a version of this movement but with normal pallet fork and escapement and its name is Lxxx(Exchange xxx with numbers as i forgot the numbers). Yes it is a serviceable movement on which you need to change the escapement and pallet fork. But with the price they come from factory its a total waste of time to repair it. Oh and yes the escapement and pallet should not be cleaned in the machine Why? Because every cleaning machine has drying cycle on which a heater using hot air dries the parts from the cleaning fluids. Hot air and plastic do not agree too well. Br Emso


 Within the Powermatic family of movement's there are -thus far- three different levels; P08.1XX; these have a synthetic escapement. P08.6XX; these have a regular escapement. P08.8XX; these have a silicon balance spring


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## BenchGuy (Sep 23, 2012)

emso said:


> To say that its a next generation movement at first it has to prove itself.
> Other eta workhorses designs like 2824,2836,2892,7750 etc are in bussiness for years without too much changes of design or materials
> Their patents are long gone.
> Lets wait for about 10 years and we will speak about the " the next generation movement"
> ...





misa.zrzy said:


> Within the Powermatic family of movement's there are -thus far- three different levels; P08.1XX; these have a synthetic escapement. P08.6XX; these have a regular escapement. P08.8XX; these have a silicon balance spring


@Misa: you are replying to a very old post. You did not wait 10 years  ...(but the industry has moved more rapidly than EMSO predicited). (BTW, where has EMSO gone?...can't believe I am still offering mindless drivel on f6)...

At the time of the original post, there was only one movement. The variants of this movement have been discussed in other threads.

Welcome to f6

Regards, BG


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