# JLC master geographic inaccuracy issue



## Hyu Chen (Feb 24, 2016)

Hello ! i am new to this forum, in fact i made a account just to post this thread.
please listen to my story, any tips or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

I have noticed my JLC master Geographic Calibre 929/3 was running abit fast (approx 16~19 Seconds per day)

therefore, i took it into my local AD (Pendulum Thailand - they are certified by JLC as official service center here)

After 2 weeks of evaluation the AD called me back and suggests that a full service overhaul is needed to fix the issue i'm having.
so i didn't hesitate and went ahead with the service (cost around $1100 USD).

After 3 months of service and waiting, i paid for my service and got my watch back from the AD. BUT was surprised to find out the watch is still running 16~19 seconds per day.
After 2 days of testing i even noticed it was gaining approx 5-6 secs every 3~4 hours or so (Power reserve bar kept at full + and from normal wearing, not put in a winder). so i took it back to the AD.

The AD told me it would re-check for me again. its been 2 months since I've heard from them and currently my watch is still at the service center.

Meanwhile i emailed Jaeger-LeCoultre Client Relations Department on the official JLC site to ask about this problem.
Their clients department personally called me on my cell phone and explained that for this calibre and many of JLC's movement it is normal standard for the watch to gain 15~20 seconds per every 24 hours. i have a hard time accepting this fact as all my other watches never had this much gain per day. isn't JLC suppose to be considered one of the highly regarded watches? it is really bugging me... as i really love this watch but the accuracy is clearly inferior to even a rolex sub with COSC.

Therefore i am here asking for help and suggestions of what i should do next. currently my watch is still at the service center. should i just take it back and accept the fact? Any tips will help, thanks!


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## Alex_TA (May 7, 2013)

Pretty fantastic story. These guys have balls. This is normal? Impudence 

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## Hyu Chen (Feb 24, 2016)

Yes I find thier official reply to be disappointing. 

First I was told by the AD service center that all JLC movements are normal to gain (+15 sec)this much per day because thier movements are based on 'antique old designs' , all thier customers knows this .

Then finally I got a call from thier official clients relations department explaining they are very 'strict' on thier quality control , but 15-20 seconds within 24 hours is well within thier quality standards.... 


I've attached a photo of my JLC side by side comparison with my sub after 24 hours (after I gotten the JLC back from an full overhaul). Note: the sub is still perfect in sync with my iPhone while the JLC is gaining more than 15sec after 24 hrs. Furthermore, the sub is STILL perfectly in sync after a week. Regret to say that it's totally putting the JLC to shame .

It would really help me if I can get assurance from the watch enthusiast here on this forum if what the AD and JLC staffs told me was the sad truth...


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## Hyu Chen (Feb 24, 2016)

If this is infact abnormal (which I think so too) what should I do next? 

Since I've been nagging and negotiating with the AD and oversea JLC staffs without avail. Seems like they won't take any responsibility for it either. It's frustrating to have spent so much $ on a luxury watch + service costs only to be put off by thier service attitude


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## torrentmt (Aug 7, 2006)

I also have a JLC master geographic, the same as yours.

I've never had such issue on my JLC and on any other mechanical watch that I own (AP diver, JLC master geo, atmos, AMVOX2, 2x Zenith chronomaster, vintage heuer).

For JLC there is a 1000hours of control and I bet them that gaining 15sec / day is within the JLC quality standard !!!

Continue to push because it's not acceptable to have such gain moreover after servicing the watch.

As written on their website
"Before being admitted to the outside world, Jaeger-LeCoultre watches have to pass the 1000 Hours Control. This series of extremely rigorous tests is much stricter than the standards imposed by the Bureaux du Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres, the COSC, which checks the movements without their cases and without complications. The Manufacture tests and certifies finished watches, reproducing the conditions of real life wear. For 1000 hours - nearly 6 weeks - all the watches have to undergo a series of tough trials. The 1000 Hours Control has established a new standard of watch quality. The buyer of a Jaeger-LeCoultre watch can thus rest assured that he owns a very high quality product of over a century old tradition and a long and meticulous process, in which no detail has been overlooked, and tested to the most exacting standards"


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## Hyu Chen (Feb 24, 2016)

Thank you for your advice torrent ., 

i have emailed the the jlc official site (last week) right after thier client department called me to request a official letter stating that 16-20 sec/day is 'normal' for my watch and they have not replied...

i I have called the AD service center daily these past 3 days in a row and the sales person handling my case won't pick up my calls... (The last time I heard from them was the sales person informed me that their watchmaker will try an attempt to 'slow down' the amplitude of the watch to compensate for the gains. Won't fix the problem but hopefully make it abit better)

its been 2 months since I've resent my watch back to them, and I'm still patiently waiting...

It's such a chore having to deal with terrible service,


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## mlacer (Apr 2, 2011)

Hello, any update to your story? I'm thinking about getting mine serviced but not sure about dropping the $1k at JLC if it means it will be running the same.


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## vexXed (Sep 15, 2015)

Hyu Chen said:


> Meanwhile i emailed Jaeger-LeCoultre Client Relations Department on the official JLC site to ask about this problem.
> Their clients department personally called me on my cell phone and explained that for this calibre and many of JLC's movement it is normal standard for the watch to gain 15~20 seconds per every 24 hours.


The average daily rate of an ETA chronometer grade movement within COSC specifications is -4/+6: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC#Standards_and_methods (under 'Standards and Methods')

Rolex recently announced their accuracy rate would be adjusted to -2/+2: Rolex Extends Stringent -2/+2 Second In-House Watch Accuracy Tests To Entire Production | aBlogtoWatch

Then we have JLC claiming their far more expensive products have a worse standard of accuracy? How can they say that rubbish and expect a customer to believe it? Have to say that's pretty insulting.



Hyu Chen said:


> i have emailed the the jlc official site (last week) right after thier client department called me to *request a official letter stating that 16-20 sec/day is 'normal'* for my watch and they have not replied...
> 
> i I have called the AD service center daily these past 3 days in a row and the sales person handling my case won't pick up my calls... (The last time I heard from them was the sales person informed me that their watchmaker will try an attempt to 'slow down' the amplitude of the watch to compensate for the gains. Won't fix the problem but hopefully make it abit better)
> 
> ...


Nice move. Seeing these types of stories really makes me uneasy for when I have to send in my JLC DSC for eventual servicing. Please keep us updated and I hope everything works out to your satisfaction in the end.


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

Amen


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

Any news from the company about the Geographic watch of the OP? I'm interested in knowing JLC commitment to watch accuracy standard followed in 1000 hour rigorous Master Control Tests. OP Please update. Thanks


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## Hyu Chen (Feb 24, 2016)

Bhakt said:


> Any news from the company about the Geographic watch of the OP? I'm interested in knowing JLC commitment to watch accuracy standard followed in 1000 hour rigorous Master Control Tests. OP Please update. Thanks


Yep, I've just got my watch back from the service center for the 2nd time earlier this week. (Total service time 5 months)
I was informed by the AD that it will be +6 per day , and that is the best they could do.
they even had to lower the amplitude of the watch to achieve it....

And so I took it home and test it by myself, after a few days I've noticed it is in fact +6 ~ +7 per day. 
Well, at least its an big improvement from the previous results. (+16 sec/ day)

Thanks everyone for your concerns and interests in my story, hope my post & experience with them can help you guys out


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

I'm still not satisfied with that results. It should be between -2+6 s/d not +6-+7 as you are getting. JLC is morally bound to at least adhere to the COSC standards. WIS looks at this brand as watchmakers' watchmaker. In other thread I've read that most of their watches keep +2 to +3 seconds per day! Perhaps they're recently facing this problem. I don't know.


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## vexXed (Sep 15, 2015)

At least that is a big improvement over the previous rate but it is still surprising they take that stance on not being able to do better.

I take it that request for an official letter stating that 16-20 sec/day is 'normal' never came your way?


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## Hyu Chen (Feb 24, 2016)

The letter never showed and they I haven't received any reply from them since then.

Every time i send them a mail i get a 'auto reply' saying they're still looking into it.

So far i've tested it for more than a week and its consistently at +6 - + 7 Per day.

i definitely agree with Bhakt that it should at least conform to CSOC standards , that being said i would seriously re-consider if i want another JLC in my collection in the future.

so far i have the following in my collection and the JLC is the only one that has accuracy problems.

1) PP 5130/R
2) Lange 1 RG <---- 10+ years old no issues
3) FPJ CB 
4) rolex 116233
5) rolex 14060M
6) JLC geographic
7) Omega Speedmaster pro Cal. 861 <---- 30+ years old and not serviced, still has better accuracy than the JLC
8) Omega Constillation
9) Tag aquaracer <---- 10+ years old and not serviced, still has better accuracy than the JLC


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## vwatchv (Dec 8, 2014)

Wow

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## gtuck (Feb 3, 2012)

I was really interested in the True Second but after reading this and other threads I've let it go. I have 2 Rolex, 2 Tudor, 3 Ball, a Tourby and an Omega. All keep time within a second a day--two at the most.


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## Hyu Chen (Feb 24, 2016)

gtuck said:


> I was really interested in the True Second but after reading this and other threads I've let it go. I have 2 Rolex, 2 Tudor, 3 Ball, a Tourby and an Omega. All keep time within a second a day--two at the most.


A wise choice sir,


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## DoraTheExplorerII (Dec 12, 2014)

Thank you for sharing your experience and keeping us updated on the situation until the end (hopefully no more problems). 

My interest in getting a JLC has completely waned. I visited an AD and the Reverso didn't look great in real life or on my wrist. On the flip side (haha), the True Second didn't look bad at all, but at that price I would rather go with another brand for reliability.

Jaeger LeCoultre has it all in looks, innovations, history, and probably cache, but fails in everything else important for the customer.


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## logan2z (Sep 23, 2012)

DoraTheExplorerII said:


> Jaeger LeCoultre has it all in looks, innovations, history, and probably cache, but fails in everything else important for the customer.


I think a statement like this might be more meaningful coming from someone who has first-hand experience with the brand.

I have three JLCs. I did have a glitch with one of them soon after purchase but JLC promptly repaired the watch and it has been running perfectly since.

I wouldn't write off the brand based on a few negative experiences documented on an Internet forum. You name a watch brand and I'll find a handful of forum threads detailing a negative customer experience related to it.


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

logan2z said:


> DoraTheExplorerII said:
> 
> 
> > Jaeger LeCoultre has it all in looks, innovations, history, and probably cache, but fails in everything else important for the customer.
> ...


I posted the following reply at a similar thread and am posting same here as it seems relevant to your post. I own a Reserve de Marche and a Geophysic Tribute to 1958. My RdM runs +8 to +10 s/d and Geophysic coming back after adjustment as it was running +15s/d is now running +45s/d...

The company owe us an explanation and correction in their approach to products they make. Till few years ago perhaps there was no such grave complaints regarding the accuracy of their watches. JLC was renowned for their excellent movements. It was known as the Watchmakers' Watchmaker! ! Every major brand including Patek Philippe Vacheron Constantin Audemars Piguet etc used their movement in their top models. I feel sad if it has reached at this dismal level. They must do something asap. I hope they read and listen to these complaints and take immediate remedial steps to satisfy their customers.


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

I own an Omega Deville, an UN Marine chronometer, a Patek Philippe Calatrava, a Longines Conquest, a Longines Vintage Flagship and a Tag Huer Grand Carrera watches and all, I'm sure, all run within -2 to +3 seconds per day. Period


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## DoraTheExplorerII (Dec 12, 2014)

logan2z said:


> I think a statement like this might be more meaningful coming from someone who has first-hand experience with the brand.
> 
> I have three JLCs. I did have a glitch with one of them soon after purchase but JLC promptly repaired the watch and it has been running perfectly since.
> 
> I wouldn't write off the brand based on a few negative experiences documented on an Internet forum. You name a watch brand and I'll find a handful of forum threads detailing a negative customer experience related to it.


If anything, your first-hand experience validates my conclusion from the numerous first-hand experiences I've read about on the internet (which is a larger sample size than a personal anecdote anyway). One in three watches having a problem is unacceptable to me, and it is something I do not expect from any watch company, let alone a high end one. Even if your issue was dealt with properly, that is clearly not always the case as evident by just this very thread. I do not want to risk getting a problem watch and risk having it addressed by the company in manners that I have read about. I am not interested at all in flipping a coin, especially at this price point.

I do not closely follow and read about every brand that is in a similar range as JLC, but I can say for sure that Rolex does not have nearly a high frequency of problems as reported by individuals.


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## logan2z (Sep 23, 2012)

DoraTheExplorerII said:


> If anything, your first-hand experience validates my conclusion from the numerous first-hand experiences I've read about on the internet (which is a larger sample size than a personal anecdote anyway). One in three watches having a problem is unacceptable to me, and it is something I do not expect from any watch company, let alone a high end one. Even if your issue was dealt with properly, that is clearly not always the case as evident by just this very thread. I do not want to risk getting a problem watch and risk having it addressed by the company in manners that I have read about. I am not interested at all in flipping a coin, especially at this price point.
> 
> I do not closely follow and read about every brand that is in a similar range as JLC, but I can say for sure that Rolex does not have nearly a high frequency of problems as reported by individuals.


That's one interpretation. My first hand experience tells me that the company stands behind its products and will swiftly fix any issues that may arise. In fact the JLC Concierge here in the US expedited my repair and I had the watch back on my wrist within 2 weeks. Email communication was excellent as well.

It's your perogative to let some negative threads on the forums deter you from purchasing the JLC that you have your heart set on. If you're more comfortable buying a Rolex then that's what you should do. But I'd rather buy the watch I actually like rather than one that I believe may not give me any problems. It's very likely that the JLC you purchase will be trouble free.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

logan,
If I detailed what I just went through for over two years, you might see thing differently. My ex-Deep Sea chrono was sent to Europe twice and yet still misfunctioned. Then it was replaced and still misfunctioned. Then the movement was swapped out while being overseen by the Technical Director (he promised that the new movement would be the best example of the 758 that JLC could provide) and it STILL misfunctioned. Then, after the Technical Director requested for me to get my watch bought back was turned down by the assistant VP of USA sales (Jean Luc Faure), Faure ignored the service department's frequent attempts to contact him regarding my case for over two months. Even the brand president was frequently being CCed to get Faure's attention. Finally, after more than two years of repeated JLC failures, I got store credit for my ex-Deep Sea chrono. Good riddance. By the way, JLC has a great service department (i.e. the team that interacts over the phone with the customers). They truly try their best to support the brand. Unfortunately, the rest of the organization appears fairly inept to me.



logan2z said:


> That's one interpretation. My first hand experience tells me that the company stands behind its products and will swiftly fix any issues that may arise. In fact the JLC Concierge here in the US expedited my repair and I had the watch back on my wrist within 2 weeks. Email communication was excellent as well.
> 
> It's your perogative to let some negative threads on the forums deter you from purchasing the JLC that you have your heart set on. If you're more comfortable buying a Rolex then that's what you should do. But I'd rather buy the watch I actually like rather than one that I believe may not give me any problems. It's very likely that the JLC you purchase will be trouble free.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

By the way, Faure's first offer to deal with my watch was for them to (try to) fixmy last Deep Sea chrono and then for me to drive (3+ hours each way) to NYC to their boutique where an associate could demonstrate to me that the watch was fixed. I stated that they couldn't demonstrate in 1-2 hours that a watch was truly fixed only that it was fixed well enough to last a few hours. That's why they (allege to) do 1000 hours of testing and not just 1-2 hours of testing.


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## logan2z (Sep 23, 2012)

GrouchoM said:


> logan,
> If I detailed what I just went through for over two years, you might see thing differently. My ex-Deep Sea chrono was sent to Europe twice and yet still misfunctioned. Then it was replaced and still misfunctioned. Then the movement was swapped out while being overseen by the Technical Director (he promised that the new movement would be the best example of the 758 that JLC could provide) and it STILL misfunctioned. Then, after the Technical Director requested for me to get my watch bought back was turned down by the assistant VP of USA sales (Jean Luc Faure), Faure ignored the service department's frequent attempts to contact him regarding my case for over two months. Even the brand president was frequently being CCed to get Faure's attention. Finally, after more than two years of repeated JLC failures, I got store credit for my ex-Deep Sea chrono. Good riddance. By the way, JLC has a great service department (i.e. the team that interacts over the phone with the customers). They truly try their best to support the brand. Unfortunately, the rest of the organization appears fairly inept to me.


And yet you're still hanging out on the JLC forum  Sorry, couldn't resist.

I'm truly sorry to hear of the fiasco with your JLC. That would put me off the brand as well. I was rather displeased when my new Memovox developed a problem soon after I bought it but I felt the service I received was top notch. Unfortunately it doesn't appear that is always the case.

I'm not a JLC apologist or affiliated with the brand in any way. I own three of their watches and, aside from the initial glitch with my Memovox, all are working well and I'm greatly enjoying them. I don't appear to be in the minority given what I read here on the JLC forum and elsewhere. Yes, I hear of issues with JLC's watches as I do with nearly every brand. And it sucks when I hear about someone who was excited to own a JLC only to be let down. But it seems those cases are relatively rare and there are many JLC owners who are happy with their timepieces. Still, these negative stories don't do this or any brand any favors.


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## DoraTheExplorerII (Dec 12, 2014)

logan2z said:


> That's one interpretation. My first hand experience tells me that the company stands behind its products and will swiftly fix any issues that may arise. In fact the JLC Concierge here in the US expedited my repair and I had the watch back on my wrist within 2 weeks. Email communication was excellent as well.
> 
> It's your perogative to let some negative threads on the forums deter you from purchasing the JLC that you have your heart set on. If you're more comfortable buying a Rolex then that's what you should do. But I'd rather buy the watch I actually like rather than one that I believe may not give me any problems. It's very likely that the JLC you purchase will be trouble free.


With such a large purchase (at least to me), I need peace of mind as well as having a good looking watch. I'm not interested in test driving their unproven True Seconds movement, especially for close to 10k. I'm not sure the Reverso looks good at all on me anyway. At this point, I can very easily move on and look at other watches. I am glad you are enjoying your JLCs and hope they serve you well for a long time.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

Believe me, logan, I could add far more onto what I wrote but I just wanted to give you the general overview. I know each service member, and they me, as soon as either of us speak due to the fact that I called them almost every day for over a year trying to move the process along. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## logan2z (Sep 23, 2012)

DoraTheExplorerII said:


> With such a large purchase (at least to me), I need peace of mind as well as having a good looking watch. I'm not interested in test driving their unproven True Seconds movement, especially for close to 10k. I'm not sure the Reverso looks good at all on me anyway. At this point, I can very easily move on and look at other watches. I am glad you are enjoying your JLCs and hope they serve you well for a long time.


Understood. I hope you find a watch that you enjoy and have faith in.


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## sheon (Dec 15, 2012)

logan2z said:


> I think a statement like this might be more meaningful coming from someone who has first-hand experience with the brand.
> 
> I have three JLCs. I did have a glitch with one of them soon after purchase but JLC promptly repaired the watch and it has been running perfectly since.
> 
> I wouldn't write off the brand based on a few negative experiences documented on an Internet forum. You name a watch brand and I'll find a handful of forum threads detailing a negative customer experience related to it.


I agree.

My wife and I have four JLCs - a master control (4 years old), a TT deep sea alarm (3 years), a ladies reverso duetto (2 years), and a TT geophysic (1 year). The master control and geophysic have never given me problems and are accurate enough for me.

The TT DSA had issues with power reserve and had to be sent in under warranty. They fixed it but took 4 months. But I'm satisfied.

After a year of ownership, the reverso started to run fast (30 minutes over a day) and had to be sent in, also under warranty. They turned it around within 2 months I believe, with no more problems. (It wasn't magnetized but there was moisture in the case.)

All in all, I'm happy with the customer service. But of course, YMMV depending on your location.


GrouchoM said:


> logan,
> If I detailed what I just went through for over two years, you might see thing differently. My ex-Deep Sea chrono was sent to Europe twice and yet still misfunctioned. Then it was replaced and still misfunctioned. Then the movement was swapped out while being overseen by the Technical Director (he promised that the new movement would be the best example of the 758 that JLC could provide) and it STILL misfunctioned. Then, after the Technical Director requested for me to get my watch bought back was turned down by the assistant VP of USA sales (Jean Luc Faure), Faure ignored the service department's frequent attempts to contact him regarding my case for over two months. Even the brand president was frequently being CCed to get Faure's attention. Finally, after more than two years of repeated JLC failures, I got store credit for my ex-Deep Sea chrono. Good riddance. By the way, JLC has a great service department (i.e. the team that interacts over the phone with the customers). They truly try their best to support the brand. Unfortunately, the rest of the organization appears fairly inept to me.


Thanks for sharing. Sounds like a nightmare. I've only heard one side of the story, but the management seems to have bungled up here.

On some other forums, the moderator has contacts with the brand and seems to be able to make things happen. I know it's too late, but just thought I'd say it here for others who might be in the same boat.


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

That's a great idea. I fully support that. It will become much meaningful to discuss here with solution in sight too. Excellent


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

sheon said:


> I agree.
> 
> My wife and I have four JLCs - a master control (4 years old), a TT deep sea alarm (3 years), a ladies reverso duetto (2 years), and a TT geophysic (1 year). The master control and geophysic have never given me problems and are accurate enough for me.
> 
> ...


So, 2 out of 4 of you JLCs had premature issues that required service and your ok with that? 
As I said, service was emailing with Jean Luc almost every day and cc-ing the brand president with no response for weeks despite Jean Luc being aware of my situation. I spoke directly with the Technical Director, too. I doubt Howard could have done anything to expedite my case.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## phunky_monkey (Dec 9, 2008)

It's a shame though that people have experienced these types of issues from high end watch brands. I won;t go into the full diatribe as I've voiced my dissatisfaction with the watch industries treatment of its customers as a whole before, but issues like the above are what drive me to boutique micro-brands such as ochs und junior or Sarpaneva, or smaller brands such as Linde Werdelin. I know that if my ochs gives me a problem that I can email the CEO, send it to him, and have it back in my hands within a few weeks at the most. 4 month turnarounds are in no way acceptable in any other industry, I'm not sure why people just accept it in this one?? :think:

I love my Reverso, and thus far it has been trouble-free for me *knock on wood*. I'm also considering a JLC perpetual as my next watch...but issues like this really make me think twice.


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## sheon (Dec 15, 2012)

GrouchoM said:


> So, 2 out of 4 of you JLCs had premature issues that required service and your ok with that?
> As I said, service was emailing with Jean Luc almost every day and cc-ing the brand president with no response for weeks despite Jean Luc being aware of my situation. I spoke directly with the Technical Director, too. I doubt Howard could have done anything to expedite my case.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Well, these are mechanical things- they will break down. It's how they handle the matter that separates the wheat from the chaff, and to me, JLC hasn't disappointed.

Again, I'm sorry to read about your case. It really sounds like poor management, when they had the chance to do things right and win over a customer.



phunky_monkey said:


> It's a shame though that people have experienced these types of issues from high end watch brands. I won;t go into the full diatribe as I've voiced my dissatisfaction with the watch industries treatment of its customers as a whole before, but issues like the above are what drive me to boutique micro-brands such as ochs und junior or Sarpaneva, or smaller brands such as Linde Werdelin. I know that if my ochs gives me a problem that I can email the CEO, send it to him, and have it back in my hands within a few weeks at the most. 4 month turnarounds are in no way acceptable in any other industry, I'm not sure why people just accept it in this one?? :think:
> 
> I love my Reverso, and thus far it has been trouble-free for me *knock on wood*. I'm also considering a JLC perpetual as my next watch...but issues like this really make me think twice.


Yeah, and this is for warranty work. I assume for non warranty work, it'll take longer.

PP took 3 months to turnaround my nautilus 5711, and this was outside warranty.

Oh well, I console myself by thinking I still have other watches to wear.


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## vexXed (Sep 15, 2015)

GrouchoM said:


> logan,
> If I detailed what I just went through for over two years, you might see thing differently. My ex-Deep Sea chrono was sent to Europe twice and yet still misfunctioned. Then it was replaced and still misfunctioned. Then the movement was swapped out while being overseen by the Technical Director (he promised that the new movement would be the best example of the 758 that JLC could provide) and it STILL misfunctioned. Then, after the Technical Director requested for me to get my watch bought back was turned down by the assistant VP of USA sales (Jean Luc Faure), Faure ignored the service department's frequent attempts to contact him regarding my case for over two months. Even the brand president was frequently being CCed to get Faure's attention. Finally, after more than two years of repeated JLC failures, I got store credit for my ex-Deep Sea chrono. Good riddance. By the way, JLC has a great service department (i.e. the team that interacts over the phone with the customers). They truly try their best to support the brand. Unfortunately, the rest of the organization appears fairly inept to me.


As someone who owns this exact watch, I am now afraid to operate the chronograph pushers ever again! But seriously, after 1 year of ownership it has been fine so far *cross fingers*, gaining a few seconds per day.

May I ask what the issue was with your one?


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## sumanbhadra (Jul 5, 2014)

do hire a counsel and sue the JLC well all dead beat second and all in house testing -at least send a legal notice -20 sec is too much -study theire propoganda promises and fire a katushka rocket


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

vexXed said:


> As someone who owns this exact watch, I am now afraid to operate the chronograph pushers ever again! But seriously, after 1 year of ownership it has been fine so far *cross fingers*, gaining a few seconds per day.
> 
> May I ask what the issue was with your one?


The first two movements: Occasionally, the chrono wouldn't reset. It would be stopped (the RED circle) and I'd repeatedly hit the reset button but it wouldn't reset. Eventually, often after re-starting and re-stopping, it would reset.
The last movement, the chrono frequently couldn't be paused (START-STOP-START without a reset). The second (and subsequent) START attempts failed. None of the movements would be called outstanding for timekeeping, too; they all lost time.


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## sheon (Dec 15, 2012)

GrouchoM said:


> ...
> 
> I doubt Howard could have done anything to expedite my case.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Ah, I was thinking of the purists, not TZ.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

Still doubt anyone could have put more pressure on JLC than I was. The extent of those notified of the issue was wrote broad. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## logan2z (Sep 23, 2012)

sheon said:


> Well, these are mechanical things- they will break down. It's how they handle the matter that separates the wheat from the chaff, and to me, JLC hasn't disappointed.
> 
> Again, I'm sorry to read about your case. It really sounds like poor management, when they had the chance to do things right and win over a customer.
> 
> ...


My GO Senator Observer needed to go back soon after purchase for an issue with the crown. My Sinn 857UTC went to the factory in Frankfurt for routine service. It came back broken. It went back two more times and had the same fault each time it returned. The movement was ultimately replaced. In terms of service times, my friend bought his wife a quartz Patek (yeah, I know) that required 12 months for a battery replacement! So yes, we put up with a lot to own these timepieces. Apparently we're all gluttons for punishment


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

One difference is that I went through more than two years, two watch cases, and three movements for a $10k+ timepiece and never got one that was properly functioning. 

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## sheon (Dec 15, 2012)

GrouchoM said:


> One difference is that I went through more than two years, two watch cases, and three movements for a $10k+ timepiece and never got one that was properly functioning.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


That's horrible. Even the cases?! How hard did your AD fight for you? Or were all the emailing and phone calling done by yourself?



logan2z said:


> My GO Senator Observer needed to go back soon after purchase for an issue with the crown. My Sinn 857UTC went to the factory in Frankfurt for routine service. It came back broken. It went back two more times and had the same fault each time it returned. The movement was ultimately replaced. In terms of service times, my friend bought his wife a quartz Patek (yeah, I know) that required 12 months for a battery replacement! So yes, we put up with a lot to own these timepieces. Apparently we're all gluttons for punishment


I forgot to mention my GS. It stopped running a few months after warranty expired, had to be sent to Japan where they replaced escapement and overhauled the movement, all with a turnaround time of 6 weeks. And they waived their fees. True story.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

What I mean was that I had the original watch (case and movement 1), the replacement watch (case and movement 2) and a replacement movement (movement 3).
I didn't get the AD involved as it was a fully warranted watch. I feel that the AD did their part in carrying and selling JLCs. It's JLSs job to insure their timepieces live up to their reputation and that their owners are happy. Shouldn't JLC honor their international warranty as opposed to putting it on to the authorized distributor? What is the authorized distributor had gone out of business, with the customer no longer have any warranty support?

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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

I should add that I would buy from the ad again but I would not buy another jlc.

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## sheon (Dec 15, 2012)

GrouchoM said:


> What I mean was that I had the original watch (case and movement 1), the replacement watch (case and movement 2) and a replacement movement (movement 3).
> I didn't get the AD involved as it was a fully warranted watch. I feel that the AD did their part in carrying and selling JLCs. It's JLSs job to insure their timepieces live up to their reputation and that their owners are happy. Shouldn't JLC honor their international warranty as opposed to putting it on to the authorized distributor? What is the authorized distributor had gone out of business, with the customer no longer have any warranty support?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


I find that the AD, if they are serious about your repeat business, can pull for you in ways we can't. They have their own contacts in the country distributor, maybe even higher than that, etc.

Again, my condolences on that watch. It was a lemon I guess.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

I was dealing with the Assistance Vice President of US JLC sales and cc'ing the President of JLC. Do you really think the AD can go above that? In fact, JLC made the AD send me the second watch and didn't reimburse the AD for several months. The AD did nothing wrong; JLC did almost nothing right.


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

GrouchoM said:


> I was dealing with the Assistance Vice President of US JLC sales and cc'ing the President of JLC. Do you really think the AD can go above that? In fact, JLC made the AD send me the second watch and didn't reimburse the AD for several months. The AD did nothing wrong; JLC did almost nothing right.


Very very strange. I strongly feel Richemont must own responsibility and take immediate steps to drastically improve after sales service of all their brands especially Jaeger-LeCoultre.


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## sheon (Dec 15, 2012)

GrouchoM said:


> I was dealing with the Assistance Vice President of US JLC sales and cc'ing the President of JLC. Do you really think the AD can go above that? In fact, JLC made the AD send me the second watch and didn't reimburse the AD for several months. The AD did nothing wrong; JLC did almost nothing right.


I'm not in the US but I can understand. Sounds like JLC USA better get their act together.


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

They make gorgeous watches, great designs, but their current administration and their watchmakers associated with the 758 movement, are very lacking. Moreover, it would nice if they put a bit more emphasis on the accuracy of their watches. 

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## MDKane (Dec 12, 2014)

I've wondered why they don't keep their value very well. Maybe this is why? I love their designs but c'mon. 


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## Ripper444 (Nov 19, 2016)

I just got a deep sea chronograph and LOVE it. However after reading some of the issues with this brand, if i was to experience a problem I would sell it and never buy from them again.


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## kimmop (Mar 19, 2015)

Ripper444 said:


> I just got a deep sea chronograph and LOVE it. However after reading some of the issues with this brand, if i was to experience a problem I would sell it and never buy from them again.


Remember also that most users don't have issues and don't come here to mention this specifically. Yes, every mechanical device can go broke and yes, there are manufacturing defects. Are most of them ....? No.

Always a problem with net forums, be it cars, watches or other trinkets


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## Solomente (Feb 24, 2015)

Ripper444 said:


> I just got a deep sea chronograph and LOVE it. However after reading some of the issues with this brand, if i was to experience a problem I would sell it and never buy from them again.


Remind me never to buy a watch from you


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## GrouchoM (Jul 11, 2013)

kimmop said:


> Remember also that most users don't have issues and don't come here to mention this specifically. Yes, every mechanical device can go broke and yes, there are manufacturing defects. Are most of them ....? No.
> 
> Always a problem with net forums, be it cars, watches or other trinkets


Well, in my case, I had been active in the forums for a while prior to buying, and suffering with, my DSC.

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## Ripper444 (Nov 19, 2016)

This is very true. So far its running fine! 8 seconds fast since Sat.



kimmop said:


> Remember also that most users don't have issues and don't come here to mention this specifically. Yes, every mechanical device can go broke and yes, there are manufacturing defects. Are most of them ....? No.
> 
> Always a problem with net forums, be it cars, watches or other trinkets


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## kimmop (Mar 19, 2015)

Ripper444 said:


> This is very true. So far its running fine! 8 seconds fast since Sat.


Mine was running originally pretty dead even when wearing it during the day but since I take the watch off at night and store it in a box (and wear other watches), in dial up-position it ran +15 sec/day. After having it regulated by JLC, they slightly adjusted this and now it's pretty close to COSC also with being stored like that at night.

I suggest you experiment the positions, if you don't wear it 24/7, to notice similar behaviour.


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## mywatchmywatch (Nov 29, 2016)

DoraTheExplorerII said:


> . One in three watches having a problem is unacceptable to me, and it is something I do not expect from any watch company, let alone a high end one. Even if your issue was dealt with properly, that is clearly not always the case as evident by just this very thread. I do not want to risk getting a problem watch and risk having it addressed by the company in manners that I have read about. I am not interested at all in flipping a coin, especially at this price point.


+1

I'm not going to risk buying a dud perpetual calendar or Duometre. These are expensive complicated machines. They have to be built right, or they are nothing.


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## VictorChief (Dec 14, 2016)

Looks like you were taken to the cleaners. No reason a modern JL movement can't perform at chronometer spec if someone that knows what they are doing regulates the watch. 16-19 secs is will within the regulation band.


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## ReversNo (Apr 5, 2016)

16-19 seconds? I would've been deeply jealous  My Reverso Duo was gaining at least an hour a day when I parted with it. The last straw in my JLC ownership was when I attempted to drop it off for service at the Beverly Hills Boutique, the manager asked me to come back another time because they were too busy closing a sale to a VIP. 

Such a shame that a brand with an portfolio of endearing models and a history of engineering marvels paired with elegant aesthetics cannot live up to basic expectations of a watch consumer - in that the timepiece could keep time to specifications to which they are advertised, and that manufacturing or performance defects would be remediated in a respectable manner.


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## alphascan_tv (Nov 1, 2012)

Apologies for bumping an old thread but I felt compelled to share my experience with the Geographic.

I've lusted after this model for over a year now and spent countless hours on the forums and this thread in particular...

I bit the bullet and purchased the watch. I love the aesthetics even more in the metal than pictures on the internet. I feel the raised chapter ring was the most unique aspect about this edition of the Geographic and that's what makes it my favorite of the 4 designs they've ever realeased!

However, as expected, timekeeping was all over the place. Pretty stable dial up at +/- 1 sec a day but loosing a ton of time -20 sec crown down and a little more in others. On the wrist it was running 8-9 sec slow a day. Amplitude was all over the place as well. Needless to say, I was gutted...

The watch was definitely a keeper, so I called a bunch of places to ask if they would service this caliber. I was refused and told that if it was a minor 'regulation' they would attempt it or else my only bet was Richemont 
(at close to 300 parts in a 9mm thin case, I don't blame them...)

I was determined to go another route given the OPs experience. So after a tremendous amount of searching I was able to find a watch repair outfit called Chronotek in PA. I called them and spoke to one of their l watchmakers (Matt) he sounded very knowledgeable and could even recall the dial and complications on the fly! He knew his watches, I was impressed.

So I dropped my watch off a month ago and today it's on my wrist, running 2 sec a day with 300+ amplitude  Positional variance is about 6 seconds.

I am so pleased that I felt compelled to give potential Geographic lovers hope that this model, when serviced right, can run wonderfully and very accurately.

I turly feel I've discovered a hidden gem, the Geographic and Chronotek..
Mike, one of the lead watchmakers there spent an hour during each of my visits talking watches 
It was awesome to get a watchmakers perspective, especially from 2 guys with close to 60 years of experience between them. Awesome, humble people that I could not recommend enough...

Here are some cool shots. Completely torn apart to the last screw, cleaned, all new gaskets and built back again. I'm over the moon ~


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## Jim44 (Jul 1, 2017)

The ironic thing is that in the internet age JLC is almost certainly losing more money in reputation/sales, probably even just staff time, than if they just replaced these faulty watches. They should do the right thing.

Personally I prefer independent watchmakers for servicing, at least I can talk to them face to face.



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## jkim92 (Sep 15, 2015)

Nice post. Now I'm not interested in Jaeger anymore


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## MeanDaddy (Mar 21, 2017)

Hello

I have a Geo True Second. bought it around 8 months ago. its been 20 sec fast daily since beginning consistently in singapore. Since i only visit singapore roughly 2x a year, I just deal with the 20 sec gain and wear the watch every day.

what i do is I put the watch 1 minute slow every sunday, so when the next sunday comes it should gain around 1 min. and i just re adjust...got used to it, no big deal.

now, since I am going to singapore soon, and based on the reading i have made on this thread. should i go ahead to boutique and ask whether there is technician available to simply regulate the watch to be more accurate? or should i just live with the 20 sec gain? what i am afraid is that its gonna be big hassle, which might not make it better etc etc...

someone said simple regulation will only take minutes. is this correct? any one got any experience with regulating JLC in singapore boutiques? thnx


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## Porsche993 (Jan 6, 2017)

MeanDaddy said:


> Hello
> 
> I have a Geo True Second. bought it around 8 months ago. its been 20 sec fast daily since beginning consistently in singapore. Since i only visit singapore roughly 2x a year, I just deal with the 20 sec gain and wear the watch every day.
> 
> ...


I would not be happy with +20s/d performance. These movements are easily capable of meeting COSC standards. My Geophysic TS runs at -1s/d and is only bettered by the Ginault which gains about 3s/week. A competent watchmaker will be able to regulate it better than what you're seeing although you should get it pressure tested after removing the rear cover. I doubt they'll be able to do much while you wait. Better to leave it with them and have the watch regulated in several positions (ideally 6) and give them enough time to complete the work.


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## alphascan_tv (Nov 1, 2012)

I second that. Especially since it's a new watch it should not need a full service. The movement probably has a microadjuster which could be used to reduce the time gain. As the previous post says, you may have to leave it with a watchmaker for a couple of days for them to adjust measure and readjust as necessary. They will probably charge you a little $ especially if they have to replace the gaskets and pressure test.


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## alphascan_tv (Nov 1, 2012)

jkim92 said:


> Nice post. Now I'm not interested in Jaeger anymore


Hahah they make some gorgeous pieces though and the attention to detail is phenomenal. It's so hard for me to go back to Rolex, Omega etc. The only other way is up - Vacheron, Patek etc


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## Denizen (Jun 30, 2006)

alphascan_tv said:


> Hahah they make some gorgeous pieces though and the attention to detail is phenomenal. It's so hard for me to go back to Rolex, Omega etc. The only other way is up - Vacheron, Patek etc


Yes, to use one customer story and to paint an entire brand because it...it's far-fetched.

Yes, the OP was treated badly from the start...and JLC has their part of bear in this. But if anyone is going to steer off from buying a JLC because of this...yes, that's your perogative of course, but it's frankly, unfounded.

That's like saying...your neighbor has a horror story with a new Mercedes he's bought and now, Mercedes makes bad cars.


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## knebo (Jun 13, 2017)

I just bought a Master Geographic (142.8.92) at an auction -- originally sold in 2001 and I have no info about the service history. 
Over the first 24 hours it's running very well. 
--> at -2 s/d with crown up
--> at +2 s/d worn. 
So with some smart positioning over night, I should be able to keep it spot on. I hope it keeps running like this. I'll report if anything changes.


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## knebo (Jun 13, 2017)

Hi everyone,
just an update on the accuracy of my Master Geographic from the year 2000: it still runs super accurately with an average of +0.4 seconds per day. A bit faster on the wrist (=during the day) and slower in the vertical position with 12 up (during the night).
An independent watchmaker confirmed today that accuracy and amplitude (on the timegrapher) are "as good as new". Here's a nice picture of the beautiful movement:


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## speed023 (Jul 24, 2018)

I have a Master Geographic too. When I'm not wearing the watch it gains 5-15 seconds a day and is dependent on the the position of the watch that I leave it in. For example, if I leave the watch to sit with the crown at the bottom, I think it gains few extra seconds. If I wear the watch all day I think it gained around 5 seconds.


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## ChronographSeeker (Aug 20, 2017)

MeanDaddy said:


> Hello
> 
> I have a Geo True Second. bought it around 8 months ago. its been 20 sec fast daily since beginning consistently in singapore. Since i only visit singapore roughly 2x a year, I just deal with the 20 sec gain and wear the watch every day.
> 
> ...


I am definitely late on this one but if you go to the ION Orchard boutique (which is the JLC's main presence in SG), that boutique also doubles as a JLC service center with official JLC watchmakers stationed in that boutique/service center. I recently went there to fix a nasty -3 to -15 seconds per day Reverso Duoface timepiece I bought from an AD.

They told me that my watch was running within specs but I insist very hard on them speeding up my watch a little which they finally gave in and did speed up my watch a little.

Currently monitoring the rates of my Reverso.

Worse case is I have to re-adjust the Reverso's time everytime it runs too slow  .


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