# Zenith Defy Classic - Baselworld 2018



## phunky_monkey

Just saw the newly revealed Zenith Defy Classic and absolutely love it. I like the tech behind the Defy range, but the previous versions haven;t quite grabbed me aesthetically. These ones most certainly do, and the pricing is right as well.

Keen to hear everyone else's thoughts.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/zenith-defy-classic-introducing#&gid=1&pid=3


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## MrDagon007

I like the closed dial one on bracelet. Still I had expected them to make the competition nervous by launching a higher volume edition of the defy lab movement in these.
My fave baselworld release so far is the Tudor GMT, followed by the Nomos Tangente with elegant date window slits around the dial


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## probep

Good watches,
but it's disappointed that Zenith doesn't show Defy Lab watches.


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## SISL

I think those are gorgeous. They have a little Gerald Genta flavor.


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## dantan

I like this one on bracelet, but lose the date, please!


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## phunky_monkey

MrDagon007 said:


> I like the closed dial one on bracelet. Still I had expected them to make the competition nervous by launching a higher volume edition of the defy lab movement in these.
> My fave baselworld release so far is the Tudor GMT, followed by the Nomos Tangente with elegant date window slits around the dial


Agree with all three of your choices mate :-!

I think they'll go mass-market with the defy lab movement, but perhaps a volume cost issue currently?



dantan said:


> I like this one on bracelet, but lose the date, please!


I'd prefer they went wihtout the date window too, though find it quite successful on the open-worked version.


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## js1

Yeah, nice watches but too small. Where is Defy Lab?


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## WTSP

41 mm wide by 10.75 mm thick. Good job Zenith! It’s an exercise in restraint in the sport watch segment. Hopefully this will be more popular than the recent Espada models. Both would be deserving of more attention from collectors. 

Personally I’ll be waiting for the new Lab escapement version though.


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## Fantasio

IMO the open dial looks like a mess, but this one i like very much.


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## mykii

Zenith is really going heavy with blue in their models the last few years.


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## phunky_monkey

WTSP said:


> 41 mm wide by 10.75 mm thick. Good job Zenith! It's an exercise in restraint in the sport watch segment. Hopefully this will be more popular than the recent Espada models. Both would be deserving of more attention from collectors.
> 
> Personally I'll be waiting for the new Lab escapement version though.


Agreed - sizing is perfect for me :-!



mykii said:


> Zenith is really going heavy with blue in their models the last few years.


I'm glad they are. They're stunning, and I'm a sucker for a blue dial!


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## OSUMBA2003

The blue solid sunburst dial looks absolutely amazing. I've already contacted an AD about ordering one. 

I've been looking for a blue dial to complete the collection, and this may be the front runner!


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## WTSP

So which vintage Defy do you think this is referencing? I'd say the Gauss:










Not sure which reference this is.










Everyone is going to say that that's a Gerald Genta bracelet, but there's plenty of precedent in old Zenith models.


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## Cybotron

I like these myself. I'd buy one 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## M.W.

I'd like to see the open dial on bracelet in person. Would probably normally prefer solid dial but not sure about the 'DEFY' text--looks cool on vintage 70s models but somehow a bit too much like branding for cologne here. As an Espada owner probably not in the market for another three-hander, but that could change once the LAB tech makes its way into these ...


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## js1

OSUMBA2003 said:


> The blue solid sunburst dial looks absolutely amazing. I've already contacted an AD about ordering one.


When are they going to be available?


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## alex-w

I like the blue closed dial, I've owned Ingenieur 3239 and I miss the look, size, and bracelet type. And for just a little more MSRP Zenith delivers advanced movement (instead of ETA2892 in IWC). I just wish for 2 changes:
- double index maker on "12"
- microadjustment in the clasp


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## pyiyha

Love the design... just wished there was a midsize option at 36 or 37mm as these integrated bracelet watches tend to wear big.

Love what JC Biver is doing with Zenith following the Nataf 'darkages'.



Fantasio said:


> IMO the open dial looks like a mess, but this one i like very much.


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## Hartmut Richter

Cybotron said:


> I like these myself. I'd buy one


Well, for that, I'd like to see a screw down crown! Especially as it's a Defy (and even without that, at the very least an outright sports model)!

Hartmut Richter


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## wis_dad

dantan said:


> I like this one on bracelet, but lose the date, please!


I'm with Dantan although I'm not a fan of the defy font either.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## probep

js1 said:


> Where is Defy Lab?


I asked *Zenith Watches* almost the same question:
- Where are Defy Lab watches?!
- On collectors wrist!
:-d


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## PuYang

Ok, so I was bored and was quite interested in this watch, I decided to make measurements based on the 41mm dimensions we were given. (I haven't found the other dimensions aside from diameter and thickness, if it's been published, then please point to where I can find that info!)

Lug to Lug is 45mm, with 22mm Lug width, and for fun, the dial is ~33.25mm (or just call it 33mm).








I was also curious about the case-back shot, but no one posted photos from what I saw. I did a quick screen grab from the SKELETON/OPEN DIAL version from Zenith's video on Youtube. I am assuming both versions will look NEARLY the same. Note: not captured in this screenshot is the purple colored silicon escapement, etc.


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## js1

probep said:


> I asked *Zenith Watches* almost the same question:
> - Where are Defy Lab watches?!
> - On collectors wrist!
> :-d


Hehe, good one 
Hopefully they'll release this new movement this year still.


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## Alex_TA

Zenith first and foremost always was a chronograph company.

Yes nice watches especially with the closed dial on the steel bracelet, but where is advantage over other brand’s steel watches with a blue dial? Why to choose it and not Omega AT for example?

Nice try but not enough.


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## WatchBri

I really like that closed dial on bracelet, but I just can't seem to get past the lightweight feeling of titanium on my wrist.


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## omeglycine

Alex_TA said:


> Zenith first and foremost always was a chronograph company.
> 
> Yes nice watches especially with the closed dial on the steel bracelet, but where is advantage over other brand's steel watches with a blue dial? Why to choose it and not Omega AT for example?
> 
> Nice try but not enough.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It will surely be finished to a higher degree than the AT (and I love the AT). What would really make it compelling though is if they had equipped it with the Elite 6150 caliber.


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## Fantasio

I beg to disagree. Even though Zenith is indeed foremost known for El Primero, it would have been a mistake to remain a one trick pony.

I think Dufour made a good turn from Nataf monstrosities towards classy and elegant models. But for a long time Zenith didn't have proper sports models. I think it was a good decision to revive the Defy line.

Why choose it over Omega AT? Because it looks much better! 



Alex_TA said:


> Zenith first and foremost always was a chronograph company.
> 
> Yes nice watches especially with the closed dial on the steel bracelet, but where is advantage over other brand's steel watches with a blue dial? Why to choose it and not Omega AT for example?
> 
> Nice try but not enough.


Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


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## WTSP

PuYang said:


> Ok, so I was bored and was quite interested in this watch, I decided to make measurements based on the 41mm dimensions we were given. (I haven't found the other dimensions aside from diameter and thickness, if it's been published, then please point to where I can find that info!)
> 
> Lug to Lug is 45mm, with 22mm Lug width, and for fun, the dial is ~33.25mm (or just call it 33mm).
> 
> View attachment 13001523
> 
> I was also curious about the case-back shot, but no one posted photos from what I saw. I did a quick screen grab from the SKELETON/OPEN DIAL version from Zenith's video on Youtube. I am assuming both versions will look NEARLY the same. Note: not captured in this screenshot is the purple colored silicon escapement, etc.
> 
> View attachment 13001521


That's interesting. So far I don't think that anybody has heard or discussed silicon parts in an Elite movement. Zenith has just snuck it in as they did with the El Primero.


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## WTSP

Fantasio said:


> I beg to disagree. Even though Zenith is indeed foremost known for El Primero, it would have been a mistake to remain a one trick pony.
> 
> I think Dufour made a good turn from Nataf monstrosities towards classy and elegant models. But for a long time Zenith didn't have proper sports models. I think it was a good decision to revive the Defy line.
> 
> Why choose it over Omega AT? Because it looks much better!
> 
> Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


It's true that Zenith hasn't always been a chronograph company. The El Primero is something of an exception when looking at the history of the manufacture.

On another note, it's obvious to compare this to the Omega Aqua Terra or several Rolex models. I think it also compares to the Piaget Polo S or Girard Perregaux Loreato, both of which are similar in style, similar in terms of technical specifications, but far more expensive than the Zenith Defy.


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## Alex_TA

In Dufour times they made some great watches: 10th Striking, Winsor and more. I do not see watches with the same force of attraction in the current collection. Cost cutting everywhere.


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## mykii

Alex_TA said:


> In Dufour times they made some great watches: 10th Striking, Winsor and more. I do not see watches with the same force of attraction in the current collection. Cost cutting everywhere.


Cost cutting how? In fairness, Zenith is a little schizophrenic (historically) with their designs and how they change over time. It is something I like about the brand. It's like Jaeger's hunky, more mysterious, cousin.


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## PuYang

While I personally see and understand the comparisons to Omega AT, I actually like to compare this to the JLC Master Control Date on bracelet.

Compared to the JLC, this Defy Classic is a bargain at nearly 2000 USD less.

I compare to the JLC MC because that was a watch I was considering a while ago. I like simple 3 handers with or without date, a slimmish profile (AT is thicker than my preference), a beautiful movement seen through the caseback, a brand that is slightly "less recognizable" to the general public.

I really don't know though... I also really want a watch that will age well (scratches, scuffs, etc). I am leaning more sportier watches, like Speedy pro, or a diver. But man, this is the first watch in a long time that has gotten me smitten, and might pull me away from a Speedy Pro.

I know I totally contradict myself in the above statements


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## TudorKnight

I like it a lot, especially with the leather strap.


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## Tonystix

Defy Classic with closed dial looks sharp with either bracelet or leather strap.


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## Fantasio

Really? :think:



Alex_TA said:


> Cost cutting everywhere.


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## Hartmut Richter

I can't see cost cutting either, at least not to an obvious extent. At the same time, I see a directional change. In a recent German watch magazine, I saw a comment that made me think and I had to say: "How true!" The comment was something on the lines of: of all the extra complications added to the El Primero in recent years, the only one that has remained is the grand date. And sure enough, a lot of the stuff we have seen in recent years is gone: no more chronograph with alarm, no more striking tenths, no more "Winsor" annual calendar..... Instead, diversity has been unnecessarily applied to overall style again (various versions of the new Chronografo Tipo with "old" dials, Pilot watches with bronze cases, etc.). I don't really see the replacement of the striking tenth by the introduction of effectively a copy of the TAG Heuer Micrograph as a real step forward.....

However, if they now really push the introduction of the most accurate mechanical (wrist watch) escapement the world has ever seen, I would be willing to say that it had all been worth it.

Hartmut Richter


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## omeglycine

mykii said:


> Cost cutting how? In fairness, Zenith is a little schizophrenic (historically) with their designs and how they change over time. It is something I like about the brand. It's like Jaeger's hunky, more mysterious, cousin.


And it puts out tens of thousands of times a year.


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## Hartmut Richter

First and foremost a chronograph company?! I can't really go along with that. Sure, Zenith always had chronographs in their lineup, but so did others (Longines, Universal Geneve, Minerva, Angelus.....) and until the introduction of the El Primero, Zenith weren't really famous for their chronographs. What they were famous for was their pocket watches: their wrist watch line up was always rather more limited than the pocket watch line up until after WWII and even then, Zenith was a company continuing to make pocket watches right until the early seventies. And even until the takeover of Martel in 1960, their wrist watch movements tended to be a little basic: many manual movements with subseconds at 6:00 - effectively just small pocket watch movements. And what they were *really *famous for was always extreme accuracy: 1565 first prizes and 2333 awards overall in observatory competitions for their chronometric performance.....

Hartmut Richter


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## WTSP

Looks like the Zenith Zero G movement will also get the Defy Classic treatment. Apparently it's been shrunk by 30% to avoid having to use that bubble feature on the crystal in the old version. I can;t pretend I'd be in the market for this model, but it certainly fits with the current aesthetic in vogue with the AP ROO skeleton or Hublot Classic Ultre-Thin skeleton.









(not my pic)

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/zenith-defy-zero-g-watch/

Also, there's an interesting video from Baselworld 2018, entirely in German, which features most of the new lineup including the Defy Classic.


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## MrDagon007

alex-w said:


> I like the blue closed dial, I've owned Ingenieur 3239 and I miss the look, size, and bracelet type. And for just a little more MSRP Zenith delivers advanced movement (instead of ETA2892 in IWC). I just wish for 2 changes:
> - double index maker on "12"
> - microadjustment in the clasp


Is an Elite factually more advanced than a 2892? Why? Not sure myself. I do have an Elite 670 powered watch and it works well but don't think it offers better accuracy than a 2892 I have in another watch.


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## Alex_TA

mykii said:


> Cost cutting how?


For example, Pilot Big Date (which I own). 
It came with a big date complication and an amazing steel Milanese bracelet.

Now it was replaced by CP-2 which is a good watch but has no date and comes on a calfskin strap. And it is not cheaper. Plus, the absence of complications. Captain Winsor had annual calendar AND chronograph for a sane price and it have gone.

That's what I mean by continuous cost cutting.


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## WTSP

MrDagon007 said:


> Is an Elite factually more advanced than a 2892? Why? Not sure myself. I do have an Elite 670 powered watch and it works well but don't think it offers better accuracy than a 2892 I have in another watch.


I think it has just about the same level of potential accuracy once properly regulated. The Elite has eight to ten hours more power reserve. The new silicon escapement parts in new models will further differentiate it. Apparently the Elite was created at a time when Zenith was considering whether they should take the Eterna route of being a supplier to other watch brands, so being comparable to the ETA 2892 might actually have been desirable.

Of course, This same question could be asked of other movements, like the Girard Perregaux 3200, Piaget 1110P, JLC 899, Bvlgari 191/193 and others.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/comp...193-zenith-elite-3953082.html#/topics/3953082


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## soaking.fused

Hartmut Richter said:


> Well, for that, I'd like to see a screw down crown! Especially as it's a Defy (and even without that, at the very least an outright sports model)!


All kinds of this.


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## M.W.

There are a couple good wristshots of both open and closed models at PuristSPro (see link below--I believe this is allowed per forum rules but if not please remove). I have to say both look pretty nice, but I find the open dial model particularly intriguing, surprisingly ...

http://www.watchprosite.com/horolog...-selection-of-wristshots-/17.1195226.9655631/


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## bluedialer

Alex_TA said:


> Zenith first and foremost always was a chronograph company.
> 
> Yes nice watches especially with the closed dial on the steel bracelet, but where is advantage over other brand's steel watches with a blue dial? Why to choose it and not Omega AT for example?
> 
> Nice try but not enough.


Because it has a completely different look from something like an Aqua Terra, with a certain signature trendiness they're trying to cultivate in this newly revived Defy line. It's also quite thin, it's titanium, and has the Zenith name and heritage. All this doesn't make it inherently better, but are reasons an individual might choose it.

El Primero was created in 1969; Zenith history has much more to it than that.

For me personally, the aesthetic is very much like the blue Bulgari Octo Solotempo. Which I liked very much, but was not keen on the Bulgari name on my wrist. I however love Zenith. I expect it has a screw crown, but if not that would be a huge misstep. And the 41mm case size hopefully is accurate and not the bezel measurement... Otherwise this watch will truly be larger than I could accept, personally.

Still, I don't know if this might be a work in progress. If they were to upgrade the movement somehow, make a 38-39mm version, or no date, or modify the 6 o'clock text somehow, I can't help but feel this would be much more enticing to me, as much as it already is appealing.


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## DesmoIsland

They are saying in Basel that the Defy lettering on the dial will not appear on the final production model.



bluedialer said:


> Because it has a completely different look from something like an Aqua Terra, with a certain signature trendiness they're trying to cultivate in this newly revived Defy line. It's also quite thin, it's titanium, and has the Zenith name and heritage. All this doesn't make it inherently better, but are reasons an individual might choose it.
> 
> El Primero was created in 1969; Zenith history has much more to it than that.
> 
> For me personally, the aesthetic is very much like the blue Bulgari Octo Solotempo. Which I liked very much, but was not keen on the Bulgari name on my wrist. I however love Zenith. I expect it has a screw crown, but if not that would be a huge misstep. And the 41mm case size hopefully is accurate and not the bezel measurement... Otherwise this watch will truly be larger than I could accept, personally.
> 
> Still, I don't know if this might be a work in progress. If they were to upgrade the movement somehow, make a 38-39mm version, or no date, or modify the 6 o'clock text somehow, I can't help but feel this would be much more enticing to me, as much as it already is appealing.


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## Jim44

DesmoIsland said:


> They are saying in Basel that the Defy lettering on the dial will not appear on the final production model.


In that case this watch just became 100% more interesting to me

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## DesmoIsland

Just confirmed. Defy lettering will be removed.


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## PuYang

DesmoIsland said:


> Just confirmed. Defy lettering will be removed.


Ohhhhhhh that is awesome to hear! Can you link to source? Want to see more discussion on these watches 



bluedialer said:


> For me personally, the aesthetic is very much like the blue Bulgari Octo Solotempo. Which I liked very much, but was not keen on the Bulgari name on my wrist. I however love Zenith. I expect it has a screw crown, but if not that would be a huge misstep. And the 41mm case size hopefully is accurate and not the bezel measurement... Otherwise this watch will truly be larger than I could accept, personally.
> 
> Still, I don't know if this might be a work in progress. If they were to upgrade the movement somehow, make a 38-39mm version, or no date, or modify the 6 o'clock text somehow, I can't help but feel this would be much more enticing to me, as much as it already is appealing.




I did some measurements, and it would appear the 41mm measurement is including the entire case. And using the 41mm CASE size as reference, the lugs appear to be 45mm lug to lug length, with 22mm lug width.

if the 41mm is the Bezel only, then all of those pretty exact numbers would be thrown off. So I am 99% sure 41mm is the final case size!


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## bluedialer

PuYang said:


> Ohhhhhhh that is awesome to hear! Can you link to source? Want to see more discussion on these watches
> 
> 
> 
> I did some measurements, and it would appear the 41mm measurement is including the entire case. And using the 41mm CASE size as reference, the lugs appear to be 45mm lug to lug length, with 22mm lug width.
> 
> if the 41mm is the Bezel only, then all of those pretty exact numbers would be thrown off. So I am 99% sure 41mm is the final case size!


I did the same thing earlier with the 41mm applied to the bezel and it came to a 23mm between lug measurement. Not unheard of, brands nefariously do this, but hopefully you are correct both for overall sizing and strap changing.

Either way it'll push it for me because this style can wear large because of how wide the bracelet starts off. I decided the 41mm Octo looked too big, a year later they answered with a 38mm and that was so great.

Not an easy segment to find, so I'll share




Defy Classic handled from 8:40 to 10:40

No I don't know where discussion of taking out the DEFY text is, but that's a good move if true.


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## MrDagon007

While it is pretty and kind of echoes some 1970s sporty Defys, I would rather wait for the mass production of the Defy Lab movement. I had expected them at this baselworld, that would have made an impact. Perhaps next year?


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## bluedialer

MrDagon007 said:


> While it is pretty and kind of echoes some 1970s sporty Defys, I would rather wait for the mass production of the Defy Lab movement. I had expected them at this baselworld, that would have made an impact. Perhaps next year?


How much are people expecting the basic level of that tech in production to cost in retail?

Seems like they'd charge an arm and leg for it. But then it is just silicon wafers? And then while it's novel and quite cool, there's also something unappealing to me about the simplicity of such movement construction. Not to mention some skepticism about such radically new and unique tech.

Just wondering out loud... I haven't been keeping up with how that's all developing.


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## WTSP

This may be a stupid question, but I wonder if the same type of occilator couldn’t simply have been made out of some form of plastic?


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## Hartmut Richter

Theoretically yet. In practice, you wouldn't be able to make it out of plastic with those fine filaments *and* maintain even, reproducable thickness. Plus plastic is far too heterogenous a material to provide a standardised, reproducable degree of elasticity which is vital for the accuracy of a watch.

As for which watches we will see this escapement in again (if any), I do wonder who invented it: Zenith or LVMH. Either way, I do hope that it will remain exclusive to Zenith watches and not find its way into Bulgaris, TAG Heuers - or even (worse): Hublots!

Hartmut Richter


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## MrDagon007

bluedialer said:


> How much are people expecting the basic level of that tech in production to cost in retail?
> 
> Seems like they'd charge an arm and leg for it. But then it is just silicon wafers? And then while it's novel and quite cool, there's also something unappealing to me about the simplicity of such movement construction. Not to mention some skepticism about such radically new and unique tech.
> 
> Just wondering out loud... I haven't been keeping up with how that's all developing.


You have a point, the price of something -certainly for a watch- does not need to relate sensibly to the cost.
The simplicity is appealing technically. It does look less complex to construct the movement than an elite? Frankly i have no idea about the cost of creating those silicon wafer cut outs, but once a mass production is created, would it be that high?
Scepticism? Well indeed we haven't heard yet about reliability and shock resistance. Those long vibrating filaments somehow look more fragile than a coiled up hairspring!

Hartmut : I seem to remember that the movement was an invention of the technical director of Tag, I can imagine that Biver wants to initially reserve it as a weapon to relaunch Zenith.

Still, for me, to pay a full price new Zenith instead of enjoying my vintages, I think I will wait for one with this innovative movement.


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## PuYang

Finally a proper photo of the case-back (beats my youtube screen grab ) from Monochrome Watches:









The window is smaller than I'd like, but I quite like the look of the rotor, etc. I have always preferred a Manual wind watch with no rotor, but when it comes to automatics, I say embrace the rotor through decorating/integrating. ("integrating" is something even some of the most expensive brands fail to do IMO, *cough cough patek*).

So... I'm unfamiliar with integrated bracelet watches. Looking at the lugs/spring bar, it looks like any normal strap can be used on this watch right? There is no rule stating that you have to have a strap that wraps around the lugs right? ;s


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## OSUMBA2003

js1 said:


> When are they going to be available?


(Not having read the remainder of this thread, so it may already be answered) I don't actually know. The AD I contacted never followed up after an e-mail or two.

I've since gone in a different direction. The live pics I saw on Instagram weren't as inspiring to me as the renderings here.


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## mykii

PuYang said:


> Finally a proper photo of the case-back (beats my youtube screen grab ) from Monochrome Watches:
> 
> View attachment 13012531
> 
> 
> The window is smaller than I'd like, but I quite like the look of the rotor, etc. I have always preferred a Manual wind watch with no rotor, but when it comes to automatics, I say embrace the rotor through decorating/integrating. ("integrating" is something even some of the most expensive brands fail to do IMO, *cough cough patek*).
> 
> So... I'm unfamiliar with integrated bracelet watches. Looking at the lugs/spring bar, it looks like any normal strap can be used on this watch right? There is no rule stating that you have to have a strap that wraps around the lugs right? ;s


Looks great. To answer your last question, it depends on the watch. For e.g., IWC aquatimers, no. This looks like non-oem straps may be possible though?


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## bluedialer

mykii said:


> Looks great. To answer your last question, it depends on the watch. For e.g., IWC aquatimers, no. This looks like non-oem straps may be possible though?


Looks like it. Because it's not a truly integrated bracelet... The lugs are actually pretty standard shape, it's just the first link of the bracelet (and the ends of the straps) is specially shaped to streamline with the case.

It does appear that between the lugs there is a lower lip (upon which the metal end links of both the OEM straps and bracelet rest) that will be revealed by a normal strap... So no telling right now how that quite looks.


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## DesmoIsland

I was at the Basel show. Met directly with the product guys.


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## WTSP

It would be cool if the end links could be removed from the case, as with the Stratos. Looks to me like a similar design.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f27/question-about-stratos-strap-change-2624834.html#/topics/2624834


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## Hartmut Richter

Cost doesn't work like that: it's not just the cost of production but also the cost of the research & development. And that will be rather high here..... - and it will be distributed over each of the first _N_ pieces made to make the invention profitable. After that, you can expect prices to drop.

Apart from that, the maker will also extract some added plus from the customer for the sheer added value. Some of the work I do takes hardly a quarter of an hour, yet we still charge the customer several thousand Euros for it. Why? The "added value" to the customer. If the knowledge I generate will benefit him 50000 Euros, why should we not charge him 5000 for it?! Same here: the increase in accuracy is so phenomenal that you will be made to pay for it, and there are enough people willing to pay for it who, when the time comes, you will be competing against for the available watches.

Hartmut Richter


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## Jim44

Hartmut Richter said:


> Cost doesn't work like that: it's not just the cost of production but also the cost of the research & development. And that will be rather high here..... - and it will be distributed over each of the first _N_ pieces made to make the invention profitable. After that, you can expect prices to drop.
> 
> Apart from that, the maker will also extract some added plus from the customer for the sheer added value. Some of the work I do takes hardly a quarter of an hour, yet we still charge the customer several thousand Euros for it. Why? The "added value" to the customer. If the knowledge I generate will benefit him 50000 Euros, why should we not charge him 5000 for it?! Same here: the increase in accuracy is so phenomenal that you will be made to pay for it, and there are enough people willing to pay for it who, when the time comes, you will be competing against for the available watches.
> 
> Hartmut Richter


I agree, and would go even further: R&D is a "sunk cost"; and even if the R&D and production costs were zero the company would still charge whatever consumers are willing to pay. Why? The better question is: why not?

Put even more simply, the price will be set by supply and demand in the market.

In the end the watch is only "worth" whatever consumers are willing to pay for it, regardless of production costs etc. I.e. the "value" of the watch to consumers may have very little to do with the costs to produce the watch.

Of course like any other company Zenith will try to set the supply at the point that maximizes profit for the company.

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## watchuseekuser2015

From earlier posts in this thread, there is speculation that the "DEFY" wording will be removed from the closed-dial version of the watch. So I did some quick image editing and came up with the following:









This 41mm watch reminds me of other watches in that size with a blue dial, so I decided to put them side by side. Note that I did my best to have all the dials at the same size.


----------



## Jim44

watchuseekuser2015 said:


> From earlier posts in this thread, there is speculation that the "DEFY" wording will be removed from the closed-dial version of the watch. So I did some quick image editing and came up with the following:
> 
> View attachment 13015355
> 
> 
> This 41mm watch reminds me of other watches in that size with a blue dial, so I decided to mock them up. Note that I did my best to have all the dials at the same size.
> 
> View attachment 13015381


Very cool, thanks for sharing this. I'd be happy with any of the four

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## js1

It looks better with the DEFY label.


----------



## georges zaslavsky

I am sorry but I find the new Defy range of Defy watches somewhat ugly, I would rather buy a vintage one.


----------



## omeglycine

The 6150 would look great filling that case back out with its extra 5mm. I do enjoy the star rotor.


----------



## WTSP

omeglycine said:


> The 6150 would look great filling that case back out with its extra 5mm. I do enjoy the star rotor.


We'll have to keep holding our breath for the return of that caliber. I guess that they withdrew it to focus on all of these innovations instead.


----------



## omeglycine

WTSP said:


> We'll have to keep holding our breath for the return of that caliber. I guess that they withdrew it to focus on all of these innovations instead.


I also think that may be the case. Maybe I'll write JCB and see if I can get a closed dial version of the Defy with it. I'm sure he'd tell me for the right price anything is possible


----------



## PuYang

Anyone know when Zenith's Basel 2018 models will be released? Some brands already announced when most of their models will be available at dealers, etc, but I can't find any hints on Zenith's releases.

I am really really hoping by Fall 2018, but seeing as how not many people saw Defy 21 models until near the end of 2017, I am not too optimistic


----------



## Cybotron

PuYang said:


> Anyone know when Zenith's Basel 2018 models will be released? Some brands already announced when most of their models will be available at dealers, etc, but I can't find any hints on Zenith's releases.
> 
> I am really really hoping by Fall 2018, but seeing as how not many people saw Defy 21 models until near the end of 2017, I am not too optimistic


Contact Rob at Topper Jewelers.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## IGotId

The pics on the website do not have Defy on the dial:

Zenith Baselworld 2018


----------



## Fantasio

To me it looks a bit odd without the "Defy" at six'o'clock.

Usually I dislike excess text on dials, but the bottom of the dial is looks empty on those pics.



IGotId said:


> The pics on the website do not have Defy on the dial:
> 
> Zenith Baselworld 2018


Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


----------



## bluedialer

Fantasio said:


> To me it looks a bit odd without the "Defy" at six'o'clock.
> 
> Usually I dislike excess text on dials, but the bottom of the dial is looks empty on those pics.
> 
> Sent from Maxwell Smart's shoe.


I generally like watches to have something below the hands. But the big italicized Defy tag wasn't good.

I wonder why they used Elite rather than El Primero based movement? Then they could have put something worthwhile like "36 000 VpH" and not blank nor generic like Automatic. Plus, it would be a more attractive (arguably) more accurate watch beating at 10bps.

Too much potential pushback from enthusiasts who demand El Primero remain only for chronographs? Nah, this watch wasn't designed with enthusiasts in mind.


----------



## alex-w

Simple "Automatic" or "Elite Cal 670" would be ok.


----------



## PuYang

Adding the word Automatic to a watch is kinda lame (in my opinion). There is really nothing special about a watch being automatic, so it is not something worth advertising. One of the dumbest design choices on the JLC Master Ultrathin Moon is the addition of "Automatique" crammed on the dial. So pointless. Also no one needs or wants the Caliber on the dial. It works for the El Primero because "El Primero" is almost its own model / branding. You won't see something like "El Primero 400B" (Caliber) or something on the dial.

The word ELITE might be ok, but not with the caliber designation. The problem is, ELITE is a model line, and this watch is a DEFY. So, Elite won't make sense either.

I think they need to keep the word DEFY on the dial, but make it more subtle. Giant all caps block text doesn't work in this case.

But at the end of the day, if it was between the current DEFY text or no text, I would still choose no text. It at least shows their designers have some restraint and care more about clean dials than throwing on text for the sake of having text. JLC Master Control Date was always one of my favourite watches because it has no text at all aside from Jaeger-LeCoultre, and Swiss Made.

EDIT: I'll be honest though, after looking at a bunch of actual product photos and wrist shots of this watch, the word DEFY on the dial doesn't bother me too much. It looks... smaller? in the actual product photos. The DATE window on the other hand... bugs me a bit. It is too perfectly square. Rather make it wider / rectangular :S


----------



## IGotId

Positive review (but an awful write-up)

https://www.fratellowatches.com/zenith-defy-classic/


----------



## kyle1234c

Im really liking the look of this watch. Any good piccies of wrist shots (both with and without bracelet) and of the movement (believe this has a sapphire case back?)


----------



## js1

Without the Defy on the dial they look empty. The font was really cool.


----------



## MrDagon007

The blue one with Defy on the dial in the Fratelli is lovely, and has the vibe of my 1970s Defys.
Not sure I would buy it at full price, a Rolex seems wiser if I would need to resell.


----------



## mav

So I just put in a deposit for the skeletonized version with the blue alligator strap. This is my first Zenith, well technically second, but I traded in my ETA-powered Pilot Type 20 a couple of years ago after a few months. I love the 1970's style, Gerald Genta inspired design. I'm super excited!










And for those of you wondering about the release timing, I was told by the AD, it's within the next 2 to 3 weeks, so very soon.


----------



## Just.marking.time

Thanks for the timing update! Will definitely pop to local store to see these in person! Love them!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WTSP

It’s funny, for decades Zenith hasn’t really had any true skeleton watches, just the open hearts since the late 2000s. Now all of a sudden there’s an abundance of choices. Personally I think it’s great. Sure they may be an acquired taste, but personally I like the skeletonize Elite and I’m surprised that it’s taken until 2018 for Zenith to release one.


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## Emg66

WTSP said:


> It's funny, for decades Zenith hasn't really had any true skeleton watches, just the open hearts since the late 2000s. Now all of a sudden there's an abundance of choices. Personally I think it's great. Sure they may be an acquired taste, but personally I like the skeletonize Elite and I'm surprised that it's taken until 2018 for Zenith to release one.


I agree. You do have to love them to buy one. I like them on bc you don't always see them.


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## Hartmut Richter

Personally, when thinking "skeletised", I always expect something like the Kurth Schaffo "El Primero Baroque", not the modern industrial looking ones..... :roll: Yes, I know, I was born in the wrong century!

Hartmut Richter


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## WTSP

It's true that the modern skeletons can look a little too industrial. Also, many or most of the components are probably produced as skeletonize parts rather than being skeletonized by hand. But the classical skeletonized look is pretty tawdry and old fashioned. From what I can tell this styling appears to be more popular in Germany than elsewhere (I make no value judgement as to German tastes I assure you!).










I think that a happy medium is desirable, a bit like this Chopard.


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## mav

I guess the skeletonized dial is a classic Biver design element having seen that across Hublot, and more recently in the Tag Here Carrera line and now in the Zenith Defy series. Definitely not for everyone and I'm still not 100% sold myself despite pre-ordering the watch. 

It is very different from anything else that I have I my collection and from the photos and videos, hopefully in a good way. I'll make the final call once it arrives and I have a chance to look at it in person.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

I beg to differ! The classical skeletised look can be a true work of art, if the floral pattern has no hint of appearing machine made. OK, so the modern chinese efforts trying to appear so in mass produced skeleton watches faily abysmally but that is hardly surprising. But the really good ones look anything but tawdry. In contrast, the industrial machines look more like someone just forgot to put the dial on an ordinary modern movement. The old ones can be so artistic as to make you forget that there is no dial whereas the modern ones practically scream "there should be a dial here!"

But then, there is no accounting for taste, I suppose.....

Hartmut Richter


----------



## kennkez

Hope to see some wrist shots if there are users here who would be the Defy Classic. Looking to see if it wears big or small on the wrist


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## StockXWatches

kennkez said:


> Hope to see some wrist shots if there are users here who would be the Defy Classic. Looking to see if it wears big or small on the wrist


It's slightly bigger than I had hoped for when trying it on, but still very wearable (I also have slim wrists). Overall I really like these watches, though. Here's the openworked dial on my wrist:


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## mav

StockXWatches said:


> It's slightly bigger than I had hoped for when trying it on, but still very wearable (I also have slim wrists). Overall I really like these watches, though. Here's the openworked dial on my wrist:
> 
> View attachment 13195921


Woah, nice! Are they already out in the US market? I heard yesterday that it's another 2 weeks or so?

Did it have some weight to it or was it feather light?


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## StockXWatches

mav said:


> Woah, nice! Are they already out in the US market? I heard yesterday that it's another 2 weeks or so?


We were at COUTUREtime in Las Vegas over the weekend with the RedBar crew, where Zenith was kind enough to host us in their villa. They had these and all of their new releases (plus a Defy Lab) out for us to inspect. This one made the biggest impression on most of us.


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## Cybotron

Do you know if this model will have Defy written on the dial? I'm guessing no. Also when is the U.S. release date?









Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## StockXWatches

Cybotron said:


> Do you know if this model will have Defy written on the dial? I'm guessing no. Also when is the U.S. release date?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


From what I've heard, the DEFY will indeed be absent on production models (none of the examples at COUTUREtime had it). I'm afraid I didn't ask about release dates, sorry!


----------



## mav

Cybotron said:


> Also when is the U.S. release date?


My AD told me within the next 2 weeks or so but I ordered the skeletonized dial version so the regular dial version may vary. Separately, a contact at Zenith told me June.


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## jermyzy

I'm also loving the skeletonized dial. I'm going to have to swing by my local AD and try it on, and if it works for my skinny wrists, the skeleton on bracelet will be my next watch.

Call me crazy, but I was actually a huge fan of Nataf-era Zeniths. My two Zeniths are from the Nataf-era and to be honest, I lost interest in Zenith after he left the company. In fact, I have a 3rd Nataf-Zenith coming in a couple weeks, I managed to source NOS Zenith Baby open heart for my wife, will post pictures of that separately when it arrives. Here are my two Nataf-Zeniths which are my 2 favorite watches in my collection. This new Defy collection has brought my interest back in Zenith


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## mav

I was just informed by a social media contact at Zenith that the Defy Classic has started to "arrive in market." Hopefully the wait will be over in some days or within the week.


----------



## dantan

Based on Zenith's web-site, the "Defy" name will not be on the dial of the Watch.


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## mav

Timeless Luxury in TX just got one - a skeletonized dial on bracelet! It's on their Instagram Story.


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## kennkez

Excited to see this in person


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## ncb

I saw a Defy Classic closed dial on bracelet in Hong Kong today. Didn't recognize the model and had to look it up, which led me to this thread. 

I snapped a pic of it in the window and uploading when I have time.

Unfortunately I didn't try it on or get the local pricing. Will report back when I know more.


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## IGotId

Can confirm, no "DEFY" on the dial. Props to [email protected] for outstanding service!


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## dantan

Nice!

Congratulations on your new Zenith!


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## mav

Stopped by a Zenith AD yesterday and they had a skeletonized on bracelet model on display. First impressions are good. Wasn't able to play with it much, as the AD had it wrapped in 5 layers of plastic film. Now I just have to wait for the call.


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## Flex Luthor

mav said:


> Stopped by a Zenith AD yesterday and they had a skeletonized on bracelet model on display. First impressions are good. Wasn't able to play with it much, as the AD had it wrapped in 5 layers of plastic film. Now I just have to wait for the call.












Love the blue.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zama

Any comments here on the quality of the bracelet?


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## jermyzy

Dropping by my AD in a month, hope they have one in stock!


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## bluedialer

Viewed one recently. Very good finishing, love the rotor, bracelet is really nice. I've got a small 6.2 inch wrist, and the fit on the wrist is not bad, but not great either. Wears bigger than the dimensions, despite titanium lightness. Another thing that disappointed me personally was the crown is not screw down. I had assumed it was, but it's not. Not a big deal to some, but a sport watch in this category and in this mold should have one, in my opinion. Nice watch, but I'm passing. Don't need to add to my collection anyway, however a blue EP 38 still has a spot on my wish list.


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## imbamember

Beautiful three hand!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## imbamember

Fantasio said:


> IMO the open dial looks like a mess, but this one i like very much.


Agree!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tomatoes11

Love mine so far. Looks amazing in person.


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## Tomatoes11

Zama said:


> Any comments here on the quality of the bracelet?


Bracelet looks great and catches the light amazingly for such a small area of polished portions. Seems pretty high quality. Not Rolex quality but good enough.

A few cons though. It is quite sharp and digs into the skin a bit when the wrist is fully expanded in the hot summer heat. Fine when wrist isn't at its largest though. I think the titanium being somewhat lighter than steel saves it here, its actually quite hefty for titanium though.

The other con is there are no half links. Which would have eliminated the first con entirely.

So if you are really picky about fit and comfort I would go for the strap variants. The bracelet is comfortable enough for me but Rolex bracelets are definitely more comfortable. Fit and finish wise though, it's fantastic.


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## Zama

Tomatoes11 said:


> Bracelet looks great and catches the light amazingly for such a small area of polished portions. Seems pretty high quality. Not Rolex quality but good enough.
> 
> A few cons though. It is quite sharp and digs into the skin a bit when the wrist is fully expanded in the hot summer heat. Fine when wrist isn't at its largest though. I think the titanium being somewhat lighter than steel saves it here, its actually quite hefty for titanium though.
> 
> The other con is there are no half links. Which would have eliminated the first con entirely.
> 
> So if you are really picky about fit and comfort I would go for the strap variants. The bracelet is comfortable enough for me but Rolex bracelets are definitely more comfortable. Fit and finish wise though, it's fantastic.


Appreciate this. Unfortunately looking into the bracelet due to lack of comfort of the strap. But the strap is getting better the more I break it in.


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## mav

Well, mine arrived and I finally made it up to SF to pick up over the weekend.























































Thanks and shout out to Rob, Russ and the Topper team for the easy transaction! I love this watch!


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## dantan

Amazing!

Congratulations, mav, and wear yours in good health!


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## mav

dantan said:


> Amazing!
> 
> Congratulations, mav, and wear yours in good health!


Thanks Dan!


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## Cybotron

mav said:


> Well, mine arrived and I finally made it up to SF to pick up over the weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks and shout out to Rob, Russ and the Topper team for the easy transaction! I love this watch!


Congrats!!!! I didn't really like this one but after seeing your photos its definitely growing on me.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## gbandi

For people who have seen this one in metal, how does the titanium look? I realize some titanium watches are finished to dull grey, something I don’t like. This one is more polished. Does it look like a steel watch or still dull grey?


----------



## gbandi

Video review.. looks outstanding. I was all set on GP laureato and this one is creating problems...

https://timeandtidewatches.com/video-solid-sports-style-from-zenith-the-defy-classic/


----------



## mav

gbandi said:


> For people who have seen this one in metal, how does the titanium look? I realize some titanium watches are finished to dull grey, something I don't like. This one is more polished. Does it look like a steel watch or still dull grey?


I would say that it's not the cheap dull grey plastic look that some titanium watches have. It's more like steel, but slightly darker. The finishing is superb and varies between brushed surfaces, with the bezel and top side being vertically brushed, and polished areas. IMO, it has a high end look.


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## gbandi

Tomatoes11 said:


> Love mine so far. Looks amazing in person.
> View attachment 13298373
> View attachment 13298375


Nice watch but looks huge on your wrist. What's your wrist size?


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## Tomatoes11

gbandi said:


> Nice watch but looks huge on your wrist. What's your wrist size?


My wrists are around 6-6.29 inches throughout the day. It's 41 but definitely doesn't wear big. I generally wear 36-40 mm. This wears smaller than my explorer 39mm. Check out my pictures in the what Zenith you are wearing today thread for a better idea of how it fits on my wrist. Should be on the last page.

The watch looks like steel rather than titanium btw but seems pretty heavy for titanium as well. Definitely not super light like the other titanium watches I have handled.


----------



## gbandi

Tomatoes11 said:


> gbandi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice watch but looks huge on your wrist. What's your wrist size?
> 
> 
> 
> My wrists are around 6-6.29 throughout the day. It's 41 but definitely doesn't wear big. I generally wear 36-40. This wears smaller than my explorer 39mm. Check out my pictures in the what Zenith you are wearing today thread for a better idea of how it fits in my wrist.
> 
> The watch looks like steel rather than titanium btw but seems pretty heavy for titanium as well. Definitely not super light like the other titanium watches I have handled.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Would you mind if I ask what you paid for it. You can PM me. Trying to decide between DJ (6.6k), laureato (7.5k) and this


----------



## Tomatoes11

gbandi said:


> Thanks. Would you mind if I ask what you paid for it. You can PM me. Trying to decide between DJ (6.6k), laureato (7.5k) and this


I paid 7800 Canadian.


----------



## gbandi

Tomatoes11 said:


> gbandi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Would you mind if I ask what you paid for it. You can PM me. Trying to decide between DJ (6.6k), laureato (7.5k) and this
> 
> 
> 
> I paid 7800 Canadian.
Click to expand...

It's gonna b a hard decision for me. The price point is tricky. Of the three (defy, laureato and DJ) , the defy is the sportiest. The DJ is the dressier one and will hold its value. GP was what my heart was set on. Decisions...


----------



## Davetona

Picked up the open worked version on the blue croc in Germany yesterday and managed to get it for £1500 under list.

Looks awesome on the wrist but I know I am going to have to order the blue rubber and titanium bracelet as well.


----------



## bluedialer

Tomatoes11 said:


> My wrists are around 6-6.29 inches throughout the day. It's 41 but definitely doesn't wear big. I generally wear 36-40 mm. This wears smaller than my explorer 39mm. Check out my pictures in the what Zenith you are wearing today thread for a better idea of how it fits on my wrist. Should be on the last page.
> 
> The watch looks like steel rather than titanium btw but seems pretty heavy for titanium as well. Definitely not super light like the other titanium watches I have handled.


Congratulations, nice pickup!
I won't say it wears Big, but I wouldn't say it wears small.... though I have only tried it once. I feel like the abundant top flat surface makes the watch wear bulkier than I'd like. Especially in person at varying angles. Some of your photos capture it. Definitely a watch to view in person, as in reality it has quite different character from what the straight on stock photos convey.


----------



## Matthall

I’m following this thread very closely - currently deciding between a blue dial and the DJ41. Need to try the Defy on somewhere.


----------



## Tomatoes11

bluedialer said:


> Congratulations, nice pickup!
> I won't say it wears Big, but I wouldn't say it wears small.... though I have only tried it once. I feel like the abundant top flat surface makes the watch wear bulkier than I'd like. Especially in person at varying angles. Some of your photos capture it. Definitely a watch to view in person, as in reality it has quite different character from what the straight on stock photos convey.


I agree, it wears flashy big because of the boxy and sharp angles but the style is definitely supposed to be loud imo. The reason I say it wears smaller than my 39mm watches is because lug to lug it's tiny and the proportions look right everywhere. It wears like those bigger watches with no lugs. Kind of like a Pam. Definitely wears smaller than the Overseas and AP 15400 which are both 41mm and definitely too big for me. Even the 40mm Datejust 41 appears to wear much larger than this.


----------



## Gokaden

I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned the case design similarities to the IWC Ingenieur.


----------



## Matthall

Gokaden said:


> I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned the case design similarities to the IWC Ingenieur.


Do you mean the old gen? The current line is not like this at all now.


----------



## bluedialer

Tomatoes11 said:


> I agree, it wears flashy big because of the boxy and sharp angles but the style is definitely supposed to be loud imo. The reason I say it wears smaller than my 39mm watches is because lug to lug it's tiny and the proportions look right everywhere. It wears like those bigger watches with no lugs. Kind of like a Pam. Definitely wears smaller than the Overseas and AP 15400 which are both 41mm and definitely too big for me. Even the 40mm Datejust 41 appears to wear much larger than this.


I must agree the new Overseas is ugly big long across on the wrist. So unfortunate, the previous generation with a larger listed case size wore miles better.


----------



## Matthall

To any owners, how is the fit and finish versus others in this price range?


----------



## gbandi

More real life pics


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## Matthall

gbandi said:


> More real life pics


Thanks for posting.
Is it me or is the 1 a different height to the 4 on the date?


----------



## mav

Matthall said:


> To any owners, how is the fit and finish versus others in this price range?


I have the IWC Ingenieur Laureus, which is a similar watch in design and price, and I would say that the finishing is better. The vertical brushing on the bezel and top side of the case is very fine, and alternates between nicely polished areas to brushed areas on the case.

In terms of fit, everything flows together nicely. I love the mix of materials, between Ti, alligator and rubber and mix of finishes on the case and within the movement and open dial.


----------



## gbandi

mav said:


> Matthall said:
> 
> 
> 
> To any owners, how is the fit and finish versus others in this price range?
> 
> 
> 
> I have the IWC Ingenieur Laureus, which is a similar watch in design and price, and I would say that the finishing is better. The vertical brushing on the bezel and top side of the case is very fine, and alternates between nicely polished areas to brushed areas on the case.
> 
> In terms of fit, everything flows together nicely. I love the mix of materials, between Ti, alligator and rubber and mix of finishes on the case and within the movement and open dial.
Click to expand...

I have a Ingineur in Black as well. Just curious what made u buy another watch in blue with similar profile. Can you post a picture of the two next to each other? Glad to hear that Zenith has a better finish than IWC


----------



## gbandi

On leather strap


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## Tomatoes11

gbandi said:


> On leather strap


Strange, I thought the leather strap variant still had steel endlinks. Did they decide to remove it for the official release?

If I order the rubber strap from the AD I wonder if it comes with a titanium end link or I would just use the same one from my bracelet? I guess I'll see when I receive the order after I order it.


----------



## Hartmut Richter

That is IMO actually quite a good idea: have the rubber on the underside "creep up" the sides of the strap. It protects the leather even more from sweat and on such a dark strap and with a sporty watch, it is not as visible or, if noticed, is in keeping with the watch as a whole.

Hartmut Richter


----------



## gbandi

Tomatoes11 said:


> gbandi said:
> 
> 
> 
> On leather strap
> 
> 
> 
> Strange, I thought the leather strap variant still had steel endlinks. Did they decide to remove it for the official release?
> 
> If I order the rubber strap from the AD I wonder if it comes with a titanium end link or I would just use the same one from my bracelet? I guess I'll see when I receive the order after I order it.
Click to expand...

From what I see, the strap would go on the spring bar on the case. Don't think end link would stay


----------



## Tomatoes11

gbandi said:


> Tomatoes11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gbandi said:
> 
> 
> 
> On leather strap
> 
> 
> 
> Strange, I thought the leather strap variant still had steel endlinks. Did they decide to remove it for the official release?
> 
> If I order the rubber strap from the AD I wonder if it comes with a titanium end link or I would just use the same one from my bracelet? I guess I'll see when I receive the order after I order it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I see, the strap would go on the spring bar on the case. Don't think end link would stay
Click to expand...

This is how I see it in most pictures and videos. Yours are the first two pictures I have seen it without the titanium end links. I guess they changed it if those pics were from an AD.


----------



## gbandi

Tomatoes11 said:


> gbandi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tomatoes11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gbandi said:
> 
> 
> 
> On leather strap
> 
> 
> 
> Strange, I thought the leather strap variant still had steel endlinks. Did they decide to remove it for the official release?
> 
> If I order the rubber strap from the AD I wonder if it comes with a titanium end link or I would just use the same one from my bracelet? I guess I'll see when I receive the order after I order it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I see, the strap would go on the spring bar on the case. Don't think end link would stay
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is how I see it in most pictures and videos. Yours are the first two pictures I have seen it without the titanium end links. I guess they changed it if those pics were from an AD.
Click to expand...

Ah! I see what you mean..
Will check with AD..


----------



## mav

gbandi said:


> I have a Ingineur in Black as well. Just curious what made u buy another watch in blue with similar profile. Can you post a picture of the two next to each other? Glad to hear that Zenith has a better finish than IWC


Since several have asked me for this on IG and here, here you go...










I just love the 1970's style integrated bracelet sports watch design.


----------



## Hieurology

Been following this thread since May when I put down a deposit. Finally got it in today and am in love with the feel, fit, and finish! My first serious Swiss watch. 

Here’s a wrist and lume shot!


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## situ

How's the time keeping on these being an Elite movement, this is below the El Primero, right?


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## mav

situ said:


> How's the time keeping on these being an Elite movement, this is below the El Primero, right?


Mine is running at -1 sec per day. Spot on.


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## Hartmut Richter

WOW - nice lume shot! I rather prefer that version to the skeletised one, the latter is too futuristic for classical me!

Hartmut Richter


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## txkill

just got mine yesterday and love it. This thing is very sturdy but light and definitely has a very high end finish to it. The bracelet is spectacular.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hieurology

Hartmut Richter said:


> WOW - nice lume shot! I rather prefer that version to the skeletised one, the latter is too futuristic for classical me!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Thanks! Same here re:classical/simplistic.


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## Hieurology

mav said:


> situ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How's the time keeping on these being an Elite movement, this is below the El Primero, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is running at -1 sec per day. Spot on.
Click to expand...

Mine has lost 3 seconds since I got it yesterday, but could be because it wasn't fully wound. Will give a week update.


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## mav

Hieurology said:


> Thanks! Same here re:classical/simplistic.


No matter what version it is, I do love the fact that Zenith is offering what is essentially the same watch in two very different designs - classic vs modern. Kudos to their design team.


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## Hieurology

mav said:


> Hieurology said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! Same here re:classical/simplistic.
> 
> 
> 
> No matter what version it is, I do love the fact that Zenith is offering what is essentially the same watch in two very different designs - classic vs modern. Kudos to their design team.
Click to expand...

Agreed! Biver is definitely steering the brand in the right direction. I was actually torn between the skeleton and closed dial, but since it was my first serious watch that I intended on wearing daily, I had to go with the closed. If I had a larger collection, I probably would have went with the skeleton.


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## txkill

Hieurology said:


> Agreed! Biver is definitely steering the brand in the right direction. I was actually torn between the skeleton and closed dial, but since it was my first serious watch that I intended on wearing daily, I had to go with the closed. If I had a larger collection, I probably would have went with the skeleton.


Yes, the decision was tough for me too, but what pushed me to the skeleton was the fact I had several classic designs in my collection and chose to go with the uniqueness of a open worked.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hartmut Richter

As I often say, please don't mistake accuracy with consistency. Two different Zeniths might be running at -5secs/day vs. +5secs/day and yet they might be identically and superbly regulated to a daily rate of 0 secs/day. This means that the first is losing 5 secs every day and the other gaining 5 secs every day, both consistenly so. To get a watch to gain 5 secs/day (go from -5 to 0) or to lose 5 secs/day (to go from +5 to 0) requires a small turn of the regulating screw, no more. To get a watch that runs erratically to become consistent requires a full service plus adjustment to as many positions as possible (plus temperature, plus isochronism). So, please don't look at whether the watch gains or loses, look at how consistently it does so over time.

When I last had my El Primero done, it had a mean daily rate of ca. 1 second/day (it gained a second every day on average) and a maximum difference between the daily rates of 2.5 seconds/day (daily rates varied between 0 and +2.5). All that recorded over 3-4 months. Despite the reputation that brand has for accuracy ("Superlative Chronometer - Officially Certified"), a Rolex Daytona (Cal. 4135) presented in a German watch magazine at the time could only manage 4 secs/day maximum difference over two weeks, the Patek and JLC chronos tested at the same time came down to 3 secs/day. No wonder Zenith won more prizes for the accuracy of their watches than any other brand.....

Hartmut Richter


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## IGotId

txkill said:


> Yes, the decision was tough for me too, but what pushed me to the skeleton was the fact I had several classic designs in my collection and chose to go with the uniqueness of a open worked.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Tough decision for me as well, went with the closed as I've found that I prefer 'clean' dials overall...


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## gbandi

IGotId said:


> txkill said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the decision was tough for me too, but what pushed me to the skeleton was the fact I had several classic designs in my collection and chose to go with the uniqueness of a open worked.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Tough decision for me as well, went with the closed as I've found that I prefer 'clean' dials overall...
Click to expand...

Easy decision for me. Closed dial. I do t have any classic blue dial watches other than Monaco and Pepsi


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## gbandi

First impressions:
Wears well for size
Blue is great
Could have gotten away with date
A bit bold and modern than I expected


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## DesmoIsland

gbandi said:


> First impressions:
> Wears well for size
> Blue is great
> Could have gotten away with date
> A bit bold and modern than I expected


GREAT looking watch.! Congrats


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## Just.marking.time

Managed to try this on at the ad today.

Blown away. The blue dial is a really nice sunburst deep blue and the bracelet feels very well made. Good proportions all around and just a fantastic watch.


















Also - just to add i tried the skeleton on too. Beforehand i would have bet that i would prefer the skeleton dial but after trying i much prefer the blue dial.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tomatoes11

The proportions on this watch is crazy good. It works on just about every wrist shape and size it seems based on all the pictures.


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## gbandi

Tomatoes11 said:


> The proportions on this watch is crazy good. It works on just about every wrist shape and size it seems based on all the pictures.


Agree


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## txkill

This watch is truly awesome...I love wearing mine...its just built amazingly and looks killer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hartmut Richter

I must say - something that only just passed my mind and I checked up on it - that, what disappoints me in that watch is that it is supposed to be a rugged sports watch (as any proper member of the "Defy" series is and has been), yet it lacks a screw down crown. As a result, the water resistance is only 100m and I wouldn't trust it when swimming with it (and temporarily applying greater pressure, e.g. taking a head long dive). I do wish that Zenith would make their sports watches *really* waterproof - surely, it doesn't cost that much extra?! (*SIGH!*)

Hartmut Richter


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## PuYang

Any updated measurements? Lug to Lug, thickness, etc.

Anyone show what it looks like with the bracelet removed? No one cares about the lovely movement on the back?

I strongly considered this watch for a while, but at the end of the day, my heart still leaned towards the Speedmaster (over El Primero and this Defy).


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## txkill

so I was going to order the rubber strap from my AD but was priced an estimate of about $900. I didn't really wanna drop that kind of cash so I looked on the web for some rubber straps and found this one on globalwatchband.com... I think it looks great and fits well on the Defy. I got the 22m strap with deployant made by Bonetto Cinturini. What do you all think?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PuYang

That endlink thing is interesting. I didn't know it just goes over whatever strap you use.


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## Hieurology

txkill said:


> so I was going to order the rubber strap from my AD but was priced an estimate of about $900. I didn't really wanna drop that kind of cash so I looked on the web for some rubber straps and found this one on globalwatchband.com... I think it looks great and fits well on the Defy. I got the 22m strap with deployant made by Bonetto Cinturini. What do you all think?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks awesome with the open dial. Love the textured rubber. Thanks for the link; highly considering to get one. I purchased on the bracelet, and am still waiting for the alligator strap to be delivered to the AD, but having a rubber wouldn't hurt!


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## txkill

PuYang said:


> That endlink thing is interesting. I didn't know it just goes over whatever strap you use.


Yea...me too. I was expecting that end link to be apart of the bracelet, but it wasn't so I was pleasantly surprised. The rubber strap looks very good on it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## txkill

Hieurology said:


> Looks awesome with the open dial. Love the textured rubber. Thanks for the link; highly considering to get one. I purchased on the bracelet, and am still waiting for the alligator strap to be delivered to the AD, but having a rubber wouldn't hurt!


Thanks. I still plan on getting the rubber strap that comes with it eventually but having got this will hold me over while I save for the real deal. I almost think this strap is incredible quality for the money. $35.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jermyzy

I picked up the openworked dial on bracelet yesterday  Will try to take some photos tomorrow!


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## txkill

jermyzy said:


> I picked up the openworked dial on bracelet yesterday  Will try to take some photos tomorrow!


Congrats....you'll love it! I've been wearing mine a lot. It's awesome.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bluedialer

Hartmut Richter said:


> I must say - something that only just passed my mind and I checked up on it - that, what disappoints me in that watch is that it is supposed to be a rugged sports watch (as any proper member of the "Defy" series is and has been), yet it lacks a screw down crown. As a result, the water resistance is only 100m and I wouldn't trust it when swimming with it (and temporarily applying greater pressure, e.g. taking a head long dive). I do wish that Zenith would make their sports watches *really* waterproof - surely, it doesn't cost that much extra?! (*SIGH!*)
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Exactly. As soon as I turned the crown and realized it wasn't a screw-down, I was turned away. Money saved! It is a nice enticing watch, but they should definitely have gone the extra step.

My Synopsis is also just 100m, but has a very smooth well-made screwed crown, built for everyday reasonably active use. I've hiked and worked out in it (I know, weird), sweated all over it, thoroughly washed/rinsed it (of course), and would swim with it. A push-pull crown doesn't instill the same confidence for me.


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## mav

Congrats to all those who recently got theirs!



bluedialer said:


> Exactly. As soon as I turned the crown and realized it wasn't a screw-down, I was turned away. Money saved! It is a nice enticing watch, but they should definitely have gone the extra step.


I agree that the lack of a screw-down crown is the only negative that I have with this watch. It's a disappointment but not enough to turn away. Since mine is on leather anyways, I don't plan on ever going near water with it.


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## PuYang

You guys do realize tons of people swim with 50m WR watches with no screw down right?

Also, tons of documentation about myth busting common misunderstandings about water resistances; such as "dynamic" water resist, and "moving under water increases pressure", etc. Long story short, 50 is more than enough for swimming and bathing.

- - - Updated - - -

You guys do realize tons of people swim with 50m WR watches with no screw down right?

Also, tons of documentation about myth busting common misunderstandings about water resistances; such as "dynamic" water resist, and "moving under water increases pressure", etc. Long story short, 50 is more than enough for swimming and bathing.


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## ayuboi86

been looking to pick up the open work version of this for some time now. never had a titanium watch before though and for a sports watch I would think I would like the heft.


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## jermyzy

ayuboi86 said:


> been looking to pick up the open work version of this for some time now. never had a titanium watch before though and for a sports watch I would think I would like the heft.


It's definitely very light. I own a Nataf-era Defy and that one has the classic sports watch feel - hefty and chunky. This one is a much more refined sports watch, slim enough to wear under a shirt cuff (which my Nataf-era Defy could not) and despite the openworked dial would not look out of place with a sportscoat/suit IMHO


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## bluedialer

PuYang said:


> You guys do realize tons of people swim with 50m WR watches with no screw down right?
> 
> Also, tons of documentation about myth busting common misunderstandings about water resistances; such as "dynamic" water resist, and "moving under water increases pressure", etc. Long story short, 50 is more than enough for swimming and bathing.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> You guys do realize tons of people swim with 50m WR watches with no screw down right?
> 
> Also, tons of documentation about myth busting common misunderstandings about water resistances; such as "dynamic" water resist, and "moving under water increases pressure", etc. Long story short, 50 is more than enough for swimming and bathing.


Sure, and water resistance rating isn't determined by threading of a screw down (though I still happen to think the threading does help keep water out), but actually by the gaskets. But still, a screw down crown all but eliminates movement of the crown during vigorous activity. It also helps protect the crown stem from physical damage if the crown were to strike something. It will also tend to keep sweat and oils on the exterior where they may be washed off more easily, rather than allowing seepage under the hollow of a crown and onto the stem (above the gaskets) in a push/pull crown.


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## jermyzy

Out of curiosity, if this Defy did have a screw-down crown and 300m WR, would you actually go swimming with it? My Nataf-Defy has a screw-down crown but honestly don't think I'd ever wear such an expensive watch for swimming (especially in the ocean) - not sure what effect chlorine/salt exposure would do to the watch. I have a Victorinox Divemaster 500 mechanical that I use specifically for that purpose.


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## mav

jermyzy said:


> Out of curiosity, if this Defy did have a screw-down crown and 300m WR, would you actually go swimming with it? My Nataf-Defy has a screw-down crown but honestly don't think I'd ever wear such an expensive watch for swimming (especially in the ocean) - not sure what effect chlorine/salt exposure would do to the watch. I have a Victorinox Divemaster 500 mechanical that I use specifically for that purpose.


I like to use my watches so I've used my Sub and SM300 as beach watches. I simply wash them off with tap water afterwards - totally fine.

I wouldn't use my Defy, but only because it's on the leather strap. If it was on rubber or bracelet, with a screw down crown, I wouldn't hesitate.


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## Hartmut Richter

Same here. My only expensive watch is my Zenith ChronoMaster EP 410 and when you look at the case closely, it has certainly taken a beating. And for most of the time, I only wear it in the office! But I live on the principle that watches should be enjoyed so I live with the odd dang rather than keep it off the wrist for too long.

At present, I am actually not wearing it often, but that's rather more because I'm fed up with having to buy new straps all the time and we are "enjoying" a record summer here.....

So, the bottom line is: if it was on a bracelet and I could be sure of its waterproofing, I'd even go swimming with it!

Hartmut Richter


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## situ

jermyzy said:


> Out of curiosity, if this Defy did have a screw-down crown and 300m WR, would you actually go swimming with it? My Nataf-Defy has a screw-down crown but honestly don't think I'd ever wear such an expensive watch for swimming (especially in the ocean) - not sure what effect chlorine/salt exposure would do to the watch. I have a Victorinox Divemaster 500 mechanical that I use specifically for that purpose.


Screw down crown or not, I am not going to abuse a $6 to $7k watch. Or risk banging it against a rock or outright losing it in the waves or whatevers, crap happens.


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## ajbutler13

Bumping this thread with the hope that some of you owners will gives us updates and post recent pictures. Was it a honeymoon phase, or do you still love it?


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## Rifish

What do you think: Is Zenith going to manufacture Zenith Defy Classic with other colored dial than blue? I think white dial version would be very nice also.


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## dantan

I think that Zenith is definitely on the right track with this Watch.

I would like to see a non-date version of this Watch, and a little bit smaller.


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## mav

dantan said:


> I think that Zenith is definitely on the right track with this Watch.
> 
> I would like to see a non-date version of this Watch, and a little bit smaller.


I agree. I think a 39mm no-date version would be compelling.


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## gbandi

Rifish said:


> What do you think: Is Zenith going to manufacture Zenith Defy Classic with other colored dial than blue? I think white dial version would be very nice also.


I can see a black on this watch. May be too casual for a white dial...


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## bluedialer

Some good new footage and commentary to peruse.





When this watch first came out, I was very interested. But I feel like it just missed on a few too many marks. Too big, too chunky looking, somewhat ordinary movement, looks like it should/would have a screw crown but doesn't. Still definitely a nice watch, but not enough to pull me into purchase. I'd sooner buy the old blue Bulgari Octo Solotempo 38mm on bracelet.


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## IGotId

ajbutler13 said:


> Bumping this thread with the hope that some you Defy Classic owners will gives us updates and post recent pictures. Was it a honeymoon phase, or do you still love it?


Like mine now more than ever!


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## dantan

This thread needs more photos!


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## ajbutler13

IGotId said:


> Like mine now more than ever!


Pics, man! PICS!


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## vexXed

Saw this in a display window recently and had to just stop and admire. Very nicely done. The blue is perfect. I like that it's titanium too, sets it apart from other sport watches.


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## IGotId

ajbutler13 said:


> Pics, man! PICS!


Tomorrow, man! Tomorrow!


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## Tomatoes11

dantan said:


> This thread needs more photos!


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## Rifish

Thanks for these pics Tomatoes11. What is your wrist size?


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## Tomatoes11

Rifish said:


> Thanks for these pics Tomatoes11. What is your wrist size?


My wrists are tiny. 6 inch on a cold day and 6.29 or so on a hot summer day.


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## Rifish

Tomatoes11 said:


> My wrists are tiny. 6 inch on a cold day and 6.29 or so on a hot summer day.


Ok, mine is 6.5 inches so maybe this Defy would be ok for me.


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## Tomatoes11

Rifish said:


> Ok, mine is 6.5 inches so maybe this Defy would be ok for me.


Yeah, go and try it on a few times. The lug to lug is smaller than most 39mm watches so it tends to work on some smaller wrists vs some other 41mm watches.

Watchbox reviews and time and tide also has some good detailed YouTube reviews that might help you decide if the size works for you.


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## gyrigo

Hey Everyone!

Ive just purchased the blue dial one on titanium bracelet. I must say im amazed by this watch. Beautiful dial, perfectly legible, lovely details on finishing (brushed - glossy), love the lack of weight. The in-house movement looks nice in the exhibition back, however i find it a bit too small. Runs -5 to -8 s/d on me right now, what i find inaccurate for what im used to, we'll see how it works out in the long run.

Some fun facts have to be mentioned though:
- The clasp isnt titanium, its stainless steel (everyone knows by now im sure);
- The movement (rotor) has a funny tinkling sound when the arm is moved, but i think i like it.
- No screwdown crown, but still 100m WR, so i wouldnt worry about this part (user guide says all watersports);
- The quickset date is bidirectional (wich is quite cool), however the user guide warns that one should only set it between 2 and 6 oclock.
- Ive just noticed the date fonts. Total mess. Its like all numbers were designed separately from eachother, with the "best" fit for the date window. I cant decide if i like them or not, but numbers like 30 look pretty wierd.
- Oh the box. Almost forgot the box. Its really high-end looking, big, heavy multislot box, like a jewelry box. 

All together a lovely watch, totally satisfied with my decesion of buying it.

Im not too good at making pictures, but will give it a try if theres demand.


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## Tomatoes11

gyrigo said:


> Hey Everyone!
> 
> Ive just purchased the blue dial one on titanium bracelet. I must say im amazed by this watch. Beautiful dial, perfectly legible, lovely details on finishing (brushed - glossy), love the lack of weight. The in-house movement looks nice in the exhibition back, however i find it a bit too small. Runs -5 to -8 s/d on me right now, what i find inaccurate for what im used to, we'll see how it works out in the long run.
> 
> Some fun facts have to be mentioned though:
> - The clasp isnt titanium, its stainless steel (everyone knows by now im sure);
> - The movement (rotor) has a funny tinkling sound when the arm is moved, but i think i like it.
> - No screwdown crown, but still 100m WR, so i wouldnt worry about this part (user guide says all watersports);
> - The quickset date is bidirectional (wich is quite cool), however the user guide warns that one should only set it between 2 and 6 oclock.
> - Ive just noticed the date fonts. Total mess. Its like all numbers were designed separately from eachother, with the "best" fit for the date window. I cant decide if i like them or not, but numbers like 30 look pretty wierd.
> - Oh the box. Almost forgot the box. Its really high-end looking, big, heavy multislot box, like a jewelry box.
> 
> All together a lovely watch, totally satisfied with my decesion of buying it.
> 
> Im not too good at making pictures, but will give it a try if theres demand.


Welcome to the club! I am pretty impressed with this watch and I have owned plenty of other watches from just about every well known brand except Omega so that's saying a lot when I say that I am enamored with this watch.


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## Hieurology

gyrigo said:


> Hey Everyone!
> 
> Ive just purchased the blue dial one on titanium bracelet. I must say im amazed by this watch. Beautiful dial, perfectly legible, lovely details on finishing (brushed - glossy), love the lack of weight. The in-house movement looks nice in the exhibition back, however i find it a bit too small. Runs -5 to -8 s/d on me right now, what i find inaccurate for what im used to, we'll see how it works out in the long run.
> 
> Some fun facts have to be mentioned though:
> - The clasp isnt titanium, its stainless steel (everyone knows by now im sure);
> - The movement (rotor) has a funny tinkling sound when the arm is moved, but i think i like it.
> - No screwdown crown, but still 100m WR, so i wouldnt worry about this part (user guide says all watersports);
> - The quickset date is bidirectional (wich is quite cool), however the user guide warns that one should only set it between 2 and 6 oclock.
> - Ive just noticed the date fonts. Total mess. Its like all numbers were designed separately from eachother, with the "best" fit for the date window. I cant decide if i like them or not, but numbers like 30 look pretty wierd.
> - Oh the box. Almost forgot the box. Its really high-end looking, big, heavy multislot box, like a jewelry box.
> 
> All together a lovely watch, totally satisfied with my decesion of buying it.
> 
> Im not too good at making pictures, but will give it a try if theres demand.


Congrats! Mine runs about -5 per day too so you're not alone!


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## ajbutler13

gyrigo said:


> Im not too good at making pictures, but will give it a try if theres demand.


*Of course* there's demand.


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## mav

Although the skeleton dial isn't for everyone, it's nicely designed.


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## ajbutler13

That's a nice pic, mav.


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## jermyzy

Does anybody else notice this watch is quite noisy? E.g. everytime the rotor swings I can hear it make a "tinkling" sound.


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## ajbutler13

jermyzy said:


> Does anybody else notice this watch is quite noisy? E.g. everytime the rotor swings I can hear it make a "tinkling" sound.


So, it provides visual *and* auditory stimulation?


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## MrDagon007

gyrigo said:


> Hey Everyone!
> 
> Ive just purchased the blue dial one on titanium bracelet. I must say im amazed by this watch. Beautiful dial, perfectly legible, lovely details on finishing (brushed - glossy), love the lack of weight. The in-house movement looks nice in the exhibition back, however i find it a bit too small. Runs -5 to -8 s/d on me right now, what i find inaccurate for what im used to, we'll see how it works out in the long run.
> 
> Some fun facts have to be mentioned though:
> - The clasp isnt titanium, its stainless steel (everyone knows by now im sure);
> - The movement (rotor) has a funny tinkling sound when the arm is moved, but i think i like it.
> - No screwdown crown, but still 100m WR, so i wouldnt worry about this part (user guide says all watersports);
> - The quickset date is bidirectional (wich is quite cool), however the user guide warns that one should only set it between 2 and 6 oclock.
> - Ive just noticed the date fonts. Total mess. Its like all numbers were designed separately from eachother, with the "best" fit for the date window. I cant decide if i like them or not, but numbers like 30 look pretty wierd.
> - Oh the box. Almost forgot the box. Its really high-end looking, big, heavy multislot box, like a jewelry box.
> 
> All together a lovely watch, totally satisfied with my decesion of buying it.
> 
> Im not too good at making pictures, but will give it a try if theres demand.


One note, probably you meant that date should NOT be set between 2 and 6?


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## gyrigo

The user guide says the following on the 9th page:
Important: Before any change of date, position the hands
between 2 o’clock and 6 o’clock, always moving them in a
clockwise direction.


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## IGotId

jermyzy said:


> Does anybody else notice this watch is quite noisy? E.g. everytime the rotor swings I can hear it make a "tinkling" sound.


Mine isn't...I do wish this watch had an available 1/2-, 2/3-, or 1 1/2-link though!


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## ajbutler13

IGotId said:


> Mine isn't...I do wish this watch had an available 1/2-, 2/3-, or 1 1/2-link though!


You promised pics two weeks (TWO WEEKS) ago, but who's counting?


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## Tamhqvn

Anyone still wanna some pics ? Just joined this game.
About tinkling. Yes its quite noisy/funny I would say. Even u move your wrist or winding the crown. Abit weird at first, now I enjoy it, unik pieces


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