# Will never purchase a Tissot again



## Montana Watch Collector (Dec 5, 2008)

I recently returned a Tissot Titanium Touch watch for repairs right at the 2 year warranty period. My dealer sent it back and was told it would cost over $200.00 to repair. I then send them a copy of my receipt and was told that it would be covered under warranty so I had them go ahead with the repair.

A month later my dealer received the watch back and had been charged the $200.00+ for the repairs. Tissot now tells me that my dealer is not an authorized dealer so they do not honor the warranty. There are no authorized dealer in my area so my dealer got the watch for me from an authorized dealer.

I have had better $30.00 Casio watches than this $600.00 piece of junk. Tissot is worse than the insurance companies when it comes to honoring their warranties. They first told me it would be covered so I OK ed the work. Now that the work is done they have changed their tune. Absolutely no customer service and they will not claim any responsibility for misleading me on the warranty coverage.o|

In the past, what you paid for an item reflected the quality and customer service you received. It is sad that "Swiss made" may no longer be a good thing. Understand this is my opinion, but I have used and do own a lot of different watches and have never had this kind of poor service in the past.

I will never own another Tissot or Swatch product!!!


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## leewmeister (Feb 13, 2006)

Was this handled by the US Tissot service center? It probably won't do much good, but you ought to make copies of your documentation and send a complaint to Tissot HQ in Switzerland.


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## slb (Jun 26, 2008)

I know how you feel.
A real letdown.
I highly doubt I'll buy another one either.
They are not a premium company as far as service goes.
If I buy a car from someone that is still in it's warranty period, the car company still repairs it.
This Tissot saying "it's not an AD" is cr*p to me.
You either made the watch or you didn't.
You make it, you service it.

BTW, I'm from Butte - how about you?
Spent my summers in Red Lodge...

Scott


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## guoweiok (Nov 29, 2008)

this is very alarming. As slb said, "You make it, you service it", that's what a honorable company should do!
Anybody else has encountered any customer service problem with Tissot?
I am going to buy a PRC 200 Chrono, although this will not put me on hold, it does alarm me. So it would be glad to hear some good opinion on Tissot customer service.


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## delaguer (Oct 14, 2008)

Wow.. another t-touch problem... 

Over at the Suunto forums, I see many Core owners are having problem with the watch but not once did they ever complain about Suunto customer service! :-! 

Anyway, so you didn't buy the watch from an AD.... therefore, Tissot won't honor the warranty... :think:

AFAIK, if you buy a watch NOT from an AD, then the watch company will not honor the warranty, no? :-s


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Correct, non AD, no factory warranty. The watch was resold, that makes
it a "used" watch. They will service it, but at your cost. No serial number,
look for a watchmaker, you have a real keeper; a pariah.


delaguer said:


> Wow.. another t-touch problem...
> 
> Over at the Suunto forums, I see many Core owners are having problem with the watch but not once did they ever complain about Suunto customer service! :-!
> 
> ...


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## dtdukok (Mar 23, 2008)

I think the jeweller that sold you the watch has some responsibility here. They effectively became a grey market dealer by sourcing you a watch from an AD and reselling it. They should have just steered you to the AD but if they wanted to make the sale they should also have made you aware of the warranty issue.


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## Chronox (Apr 20, 2008)

dtdukok said:


> I think the jeweller that sold you the watch has some responsibility here. They effectively became a grey market dealer by sourcing you a watch from an AD and reselling it. They should have just steered you to the AD but if they wanted to make the sale they should also have made you aware of the warranty issue.


I agree. The warranty should have been steered to the AD.

However, let me share an odd experience.

I bought a PRS 516 from an AD (it is even listed in Tissot's web page). I found that it had a blemish in one of the markers, like not enough Super Luminova painted on it, and they took it back, hesitantly.

The owner told me later that he had sent it to an "authorized service center" in town, instead of returning it to TISSOT USA service center in NJ. He said that Tissot was not going to handle it?! According to the paper work, the "service center" did not charge him because it was on warranty and therefore, I was not charged.

The odd thing was that Tissot did not take care of the repair themselves.
Is Tissot charging the shipping to the AD's?

Any opinions?
:-s


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## zippofan (Feb 11, 2006)

I don't know if this will work, but may be worth a try. Get a copy of "The Lemon Book" by Ralph Nader at your local library (yes, _that _Ralph Nader), and follow his suggestions for writing letters. Even though it is geared towards bad cars, I did this years ago after getting multiple bad Magnavox CD players. After my 3rd bad one the dealer essentially told me to get lost.

I wrote to Congressional sub-committees, my Senators and Congress people, BBB's, the local TV station product reviewer, and a registered letter to the CEO of Philips/Magnavox. About 2 weeks after I did this, I received a phone call and letter from the VP of Customer Service asking where I wanted my new CD player delivered. Never had any trouble with that one!

Cheers,
Griff


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## guoweiok (Nov 29, 2008)

Woo..Zippofan, you have really taken some serious steps...
Yeah, worth a try..


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## vealmike (Jul 3, 2008)

This will be of absolutely no help to the OP, but might be of use to WUS'ers in the UK.

UK law on warranties changed a few years ago. Many sales of goods such as watches come with a 12 month warranty, but this is in addition to (not instead of) your statutory rights, which are:

1/ To a six month warranty on all goods purchased new from a business. Within this period you are entitled to a repair or replacement of faulty goods at your demand. The business may challenge your demand, but to do so, they must show that the fault was not present at the time of manufacture (or would not occur through reasonable use of thier product). In other words, they have to categorically prove that the fault is present because you have broken their goods.

2/ From 6 months after your purchase date to six years, you are entitled to a repair or replacement of a faulty item at your demand.

Yes, that's right SIX YEARS !

This time though, you the consumer must prove that the fault was present at the time of manufacture or resulted through reasonable use of the product.


So, all this talk of not honoUring warranties through AD's does not apply to watches purchased in the UK. The watch company may try it on, but if you know your rights it shouldn't take long to explain to them that you will not accept their first answer!

Hope that helps UK WUS'ers.

P.S. 
Yes, Tissot service is awful. A shame really, I think Tissot's offer a lot of bang for the buck. Perhaps they are deliberately bad in order to deliniate between Tissot and Omega service.


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

I don't know man, I can't fault Tissot for not holding warrantee with an unauthorized dealer, that's typical of most brands. I've personally had wonderful experience with Tissot's service, reasonably priced and freebees galore. It's all about AD purchasing though, it really is. Sorry to hear this man. I do however think they have way too man QC problems, but as long as they make them good, which they have been (again as long as bought via AD), I consider them to be honorable.


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## barkman (Aug 17, 2008)

should not matter who sells it "tissot makes it, they fix it" I have a prc 200, it is working great, hope it keeps working great.

I would like to buy another Tissot, but might not if they dont stand behind the products.


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## newmedia (Dec 9, 2008)

slb said:


> I know how you feel.
> A real letdown.
> I highly doubt I'll buy another one either.
> They are not a premium company as far as service goes.
> ...


This should be the "LAW" and only reason the watch companies are doing this is is to protect AD and their pricing method.

You made it than you should fix it under same warranty.

good example is LVH/sp? sells its watches on internet once or twice a year 50%-80% off retail and OFFERS no warranty. ITS same as buying a gray market goods except its knowing 100% original...LOL


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## dtdukok (Mar 23, 2008)

barkman said:


> should not matter who sells it "tissot makes it, they fix it"


It simply doesn't work that way. o|


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## slb (Jun 26, 2008)

But it should be.
Don't know how they get away with it - at some point, they'll have to.
They know darn well all these watches are coming form legit sources to sell online to bypass the AD pricing.
It's more criminal behavior against consumers.
My 2¢


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## WeylandYutani (Nov 13, 2008)

Talking about 'sources' are Tissot Watches really made AND assembled in Switzerland? I take their word from the words "Swiss Made" but i've got a feeling they are assembled in the far east somewhere - Singapore?

Scratch that - http://www.timepieceplanet.com/tissot.html


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## victus1 (Mar 30, 2006)

WeylandYutani said:


> Talking about 'sources' are Tissot Watches really made AND assembled in Switzerland? I take their word from the words "Swiss Made" but i've got a feeling they are assembled in the far east somewhere - Singapore?
> 
> Scratch that - http://www.timepieceplanet.com/tissot.html


Swiss Made used to be "Swiss Made" a very long time ago. As the economy changed, so did the business practices. So they used cheaper made parts from other countries to save costs. This caused many quality problems with Swiss watches so the government stepped in and made the 50% rule. Swiss Made now means at least 50% of the parts must be Swiss Made and the rest can be made elsewhere, but all the parts have to be brought back and assembled in Switzerland.
In reality, your "Swiss Made" now means at most 50% of the parts are made in Asia and Latin America or anywhere labour costs are low (including the Amazon jungle). I think "Swiss Made" should mean 100% Swiss!!!! But that is just my twisted way of thinking ;-)


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## dtdukok (Mar 23, 2008)

victus1 said:


> Swiss Made used to be "Swiss Made" a very long time ago. As the economy changed, so did the business practices. So they used cheaper made parts from other countries to save costs. This caused many quality problems with Swiss watches so the government stepped in and made the 50% rule. Swiss Made now means at least 50% of the parts must be Swiss Made and the rest can be made elsewhere, but all the parts have to be brought back and assembled in Switzerland.
> In reality, your "Swiss Made" now means at most 50% of the parts are made in Asia and Latin America or anywhere labour costs are low (including the Amazon jungle). I think "Swiss Made" should mean 100% Swiss!!!! But that is just my twisted way of thinking ;-)


It isn't 50% of the parts, it's 50% of the value of the watch must be from parts of Swiss origin.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

They fix it if it has a serial number, but if it's sold on the Gray Market, it's
a "used watch" and at your expence. Sounds all too fair to me. "To bypass AD pricing?"


slb said:


> But it should be.
> Don't know how they get away with it - at some point, they'll have to.
> They know darn well all these watches are coming form legit sources to sell online to bypass the AD pricing.
> It's more criminal behavior against consumers.
> My 2¢


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## WeylandYutani (Nov 13, 2008)

victus1 said:


> Swiss Made used to be "Swiss Made" a very long time ago. As the economy changed, so did the business practices. So they used cheaper made parts from other countries to save costs. This caused many quality problems with Swiss watches so the government stepped in and made the 50% rule. Swiss Made now means at least 50% of the parts must be Swiss Made and the rest can be made elsewhere, but all the parts have to be brought back and assembled in Switzerland.
> In reality, your "Swiss Made" now means at most 50% of the parts are made in Asia and Latin America or anywhere labour costs are low (including the Amazon jungle). I think "Swiss Made" should mean 100% Swiss!!!! But that is just my twisted way of thinking ;-)


Bummer.

Thanks for that info!

According to Wiki :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Made

the 50% rule is covered by an ordinance of the Federal Council dated 29 December 1971.

1971!

That means only pre-1970 vintage watches are truly Swiss Made. Luckily I have one from 1960.

However, given the ordinance came in around 1971 the practice of acquiring parts from abroad must have begun much earlier!

I'm guessing if you have a watch pre-1965 then it's a true Swiss watch. 
Can anyone confirm?


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## handwound (Feb 11, 2006)

slb said:


> But it should be.
> Don't know how they get away with it - at some point, they'll have to.
> They know darn well all these watches are coming form legit sources to sell online to bypass the AD pricing.
> It's more criminal behavior against consumers.
> My 2¢


Not really. Think of it like an insurance policy - the manufacturer uses some sort of actuarial table to spread out the risk of repair over the total number of units sold. They then factor that probable cost into the price of the watch. Buying through an AD allows the manufacturer to control the amount of profit earned on each unit (to some degree, at least).

By purchasing grey market, you've circumvented that process. In essence your cheaper price from a grey market dealer doesn't include the "insurance" cost of buying from an AD. Hence, no warranty coverage.

Manufacturers need to do this in order to provide you with some incentive to purchase from an AD and keep their prices stable. Otherwise everyone would buy grey market and the manufacturer's profits would go in the toilet and they wouldn't be able to afford to honor the warranty.

It all makes sense if you take a step back and look at it objectively.


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## no_self_control (Jun 27, 2007)

peepshow said:


> Not really. Think of it like an insurance policy - the manufacturer uses some sort of actuarial table to spread out the risk of repair over the total number of units sold. They then factor that probable cost into the price of the watch. Buying through an AD allows the manufacturer to control the amount of profit earned on each unit (to some degree, at least).
> 
> By purchasing grey market, you've circumvented that process. In essence your cheaper price from a grey market dealer doesn't include the "insurance" cost of buying from an AD. Hence, no warranty coverage.
> 
> ...


the watch was bought from an AD by a trade buyer. the trade buyer then sold it on to the customer. whilst legally this might stand up it basically looks pretty shabby from two standpoints. 1) the manufacturer is thus able to negate any liability for the product and reduce their risk exposure at no cost whatsoever (and just pocket the money saved on the repair they should have been responsible for). 2) the trade buyer should have advised the customer that there was no warrantee and should also be bound by their advice that the repair was at no cost. at least in the second case the buyer ought to have some legal comeback on both counts.


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

watchbreath said:


> they fix it if it has a serial number, but if it's sold on the gray market, it's
> a "used watch" and at your expence. Sounds all too fair to me. "to bypass ad pricing?"


bingo!!!!


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## newmedia (Dec 9, 2008)

great thing about WWW.com and e-retailers is , it give a buyer a choice to choose if he wants pay extra and use AD or NOT just for the warranty issues.

Their are e-retailers who does offer similar warranty as AD that will repair it @ their own service network.:-!


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

The AD doesn't "offer" the warranty, the maker gives it.


newmedia said:


> great thing about WWW.com and e-retailers is , it give a buyer a choice to choose if he wants pay extra and use AD or NOT just for the warranty issues.
> 
> Their are e-retailers who does offer similar warranty as AD that will repair it @ their own service network.:-!


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## newmedia (Dec 9, 2008)

Watchbreath said:


> The AD doesn't "offer" the warranty, the maker gives it.


only when you buy from AD...LOL


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## Ryan Alden (Nov 19, 2008)

if once a product stamped SWISS MADE on the watch, labels, box, etc, it must be a swiss made.. my opinion, it couldn't be doubt for any reason..

in my opinion, the store should pay for any charge or fee.. because the store has issued the guarantee and receipt.. with you holding this, you are in a full right for customer right, which written in guarantee book along inside the box.. you can not be charged for any reason, as long as the guarantee still valid..

that's my logical opinion..


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## twblalock (May 15, 2008)

...


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

newmedia said:


> great thing about WWW.com and e-retailers is , it give a buyer a choice to choose if he wants pay extra and use AD or NOT just for the warranty issues.
> 
> Their are e-retailers who does offer similar warranty as AD that will repair it @ their own service network.:-!


This is true, but it's a moot-point as far as I'm concerned, because no generic warranty from a generic watch seller with generic watch repairing expertise (if you can call it that) will ever compare to brand specific repairing/warranty experience/know-how.

... eh, "to each his/her own" though, or so said the old lady as she kissed the cow.


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## alll87 (Dec 29, 2008)

sorry about that mate... anyway try to becareful next time.. tissot suppose is a good brand!!


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## ff11 (Jan 19, 2009)

no_self_control said:


> the watch was bought from an AD by a trade buyer. the trade buyer then sold it on to the customer. whilst legally this might stand up it basically looks pretty shabby from two standpoints. 1) the manufacturer is thus able to negate any liability for the product and reduce their risk exposure at no cost whatsoever (and just pocket the money saved on the repair they should have been responsible for). 2) the trade buyer should have advised the customer that there was no warrantee and should also be bound by their advice that the repair was at no cost. at least in the second case the buyer ought to have some legal comeback on both counts.


There is legal, and then there is good customer relations. It seems like in this case Tissot is benefiting from the non ADs by having greater sales of their product. Then when problems arise, not only do they not honor the warranty, but they charge a pretty penny for the service. Definitely a win-win for them. I buy lots of goods online, it saves me from having to go to stores (which I something I hate), and I have never heard of warranties not being honored on these items.

I was seriously considering getting a Tissot T-touch in the next couple of months. That is far less likely to happen after reading this thread.


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## seanpiper (Nov 17, 2007)

ff11 said:


> There is legal, and then there is good customer relations. It seems like in this case Tissot is benefiting from the non ADs by having greater sales of their product. Then when problems arise, not only do they not honor the warranty, but they charge a pretty penny for the service. Definitely a win-win for them.


ff11,

I think you may be missing the point of the discussion? We (Tissot) as a company will not provide any dealer who is not authorised by us, with any stock. Therefore any sales generated by these grey-market/online dealers provides Tissot with no benefit whatsoever. The watches origin can not be traced, nor can the authenticity of these pieces be guarateed. This is not exclusive to Tissot, and is common practice for the majority of Swiss Made timepieces.

Part of the retail price paid through an AD incorporates a certain percentage to cover warranty servicing, handling, shipping costs, etc. Again, this is common practice. By purchasing elsewhere at a lower price, you're essentially waiving the right to these services.

To address your concerns regarding T-Touch, it's somewhat of a tricky situation to grasp. While it would seem a large percentage of Touch pieces are returned with faults, this is far from the truth. *60% of all T-Touch's we receive back to our workshop have no fault at all*. These are comprised of consumers lacking a proper knowledge of the piece, and sychronisation issues, which is a 2 minute fix as detailed in the instructions.

Of the other 40%, about half of these had been pushed to hard, and had signs of excessive wear and tear. At the end of the day, T-Touch is not a sports watch. It's a technical outdoors timepiece that is made for a specific purpose. This does not include swimming, surfing or high impact activities. Unfortunately a lot of dealers still don't understand this, and sell these as a 24/7 do everything watch. They won't last long treated in this manner.

While a large number of T-Touch seem to show up with issues let's put things in perspective. Tag Heuer claim to have the lowest return rate overall of any brand, at about 4%. Tissot sells more of the T-touch family worldwide than Tag sells of their entire brand (speaking in units, not $$'s). The return rate of T-Touch is about 2%, which even by Swiss standards is VERY low! Think about the number that have been sold though... 2% of that number is a lot of poeple that can speak up about the issues they've had. You'll often hear about bad reviews. It's rare to get people to speak up with good reviews.

As a final recommendation, I've been wearing a T-Touch, without skipping a beat, for 18 months. I'm rough on my watches, and this has performed flawlessly.

Happy shopping!!


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## Walking Dude (Dec 28, 2008)

seanpiper said:


> ff11,
> 
> I think you may be missing the point of the discussion? We (Tissot) as a company will not provide any dealer who is not authorised by us, with any stock. Therefore any sales generated by these grey-market/online dealers provides Tissot with no benefit whatsoever. The watches origin can not be traced, nor can the authenticity of these pieces be guarateed. This is not exclusive to Tissot, and is common practice for the majority of Swiss Made timepieces.
> 
> ...


Morning, I just thought I would throw my .02 worth in as a "happy customer". I bought a T-Touch Expert just about a month ago. I purchased this because I wanted an "accurate" abc watch and had been been unhappy and disappointed with Suunto and Origo. I'm very glad I did. This watch has been very accurate in all of it's functions. The time function is off by only 2 seconds (1 month), the compass is smack-on, without me ever calibrating it, and the altimeter has pretty much stayed within about 50 feet wherever I've traveled, which has been accross 3 mountain-west states at varying altitudes. I've been very impressed with the performance of this watch. As for durability, time will tell. The Expert model has some upgraded and enhanced features with regards to duarability and I plan on using this watch for various hunting, hiking and camping activities. However, a little common sense goes a long way. Even with the enhanced features I wouldn't consider the Expert to be a dive watch or a rough and tumble highly shock resistant beater watch. I'm glad to hear some hard statistics from Tissot on the performance/problem issues regarding the T-touches. This just further enhances my already positive feeling toward and faith in this watch. I'm looking forward to, hopefully, many years of fun and adventures with this device strapped to my wrist and will consider it a very worthwhile tool. Again, just one opinion from the happy, silent majority out here in the wilderness.|>


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## seanpiper (Nov 17, 2007)

Walking Dude said:


> I'm glad to hear some hard statistics from Tissot on the performance/problem issues regarding the T-touches. This just further enhances my already positive feeling toward and faith in this watch. I'm looking forward to, hopefully, many years of fun and adventures with this device strapped to my wrist and will consider it a very worthwhile tool. Again, just one opinion from the happy, silent majority out here in the wilderness.|>


Glad to hear you're enjoying it! The big deal with the new Expert model was to iron out some of the practicality issues from the previous model. It's now a watch that essentially anyone can buy and enjoy.

I just wanted to point out though, the figures I quoted eearlier are for the older model T-Touch. Obviously the Expert hasn't been out long enough to make any clear judgements... but so far so good!


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## Pierre (Mar 9, 2007)

seanpiper said:


> At the end of the day, T-Touch is not a sports watch. It's a technical outdoors timepiece that is made for a specific purpose. This does not include swimming, surfing or high impact activities. Unfortunately a lot of dealers still don't understand this, and sell these as a 24/7 do everything watch. They won't last long treated in this manner.


Is referring to all T-Touches or a specific model like the the T-Touch or T-Touch Expert?

I was among those who thought the T-Touch Expert was a sports watch that could handle a Mountain Bike ride or a 'few days' swimming


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## seanpiper (Nov 17, 2007)

Pierre said:


> Is referring to all T-Touches or a specific model like the the T-Touch or T-Touch Expert?
> 
> I was among those who thought the T-Touch Expert was a sports watch that could handle a Mountain Bike ride or a 'few days' swimming


The new Expert model has been designed to combat some of the practicality issues for general public use. As with any watch, 100mWR will be fine for surface swimming and shallow snorkelling.


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## Pierre (Mar 9, 2007)

seanpiper said:


> The new Expert model has been designed to combat some of the practicality issues for general public use. As with any watch, 100mWR will be fine for surface swimming and shallow snorkelling.


Thanks for clearing up


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## tomshep (Jun 5, 2007)

So Tissot think that their watch is not tough enough, that 60% of their customers are fools, that "servicing" is something that their AD does and that buying one of their watches does not benefit them. Thanks for that, then. I won't.


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

Watchbreath said:


> They fix it if it has a serial number, but if it's sold on the Gray Market, it's
> a "used watch" and at your expence. Sounds all too fair to me. "To bypass AD pricing?"


I agree.

In this case, the risk taker lost. In many other cases, the risk taker wins.

I just hate when the risk taker loses and then blames the system that he tried to get around to save some money.

Peace of mind has its price.


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## Beyond 'The Box' (Jan 11, 2008)

Wisconsin Proud said:


> I agree.
> 
> In this case, the risk taker lost. In many other cases, the risk taker wins.
> 
> ...


BINGO, yet again!


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## Otto Phan (May 26, 2008)

I get the AD thing. Makes complete sense to me that they would only warranty watches they know and can trace the origin of. ADs not selling online is a bit different to me. That does not sound like knowing the origin but more like protecting an ADs territory since the whole idea of online sales is to expand your reach.

So unless it's from the official Tissot website, any online sales, auction or otherwise, claiming a warranty is not a warranty from Tissot?


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## slb (Jun 26, 2008)

No, they don't fix if it has a serial number.
And, the AD system is nothing less than price-fixing.
If they want to compete, then let ADs sell at the price people will pay.
It's a cop-out.
They can trace my watch - and if they can't, they have a problem.
As I said before, they know ADs get people to sell their stock on the web, and play this game.
How else would Tissot move that much product?
Answer: they wouldn't, and they know it.
It's OK, from now on, I'll stick to watches that work - avoiding the issue.


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## Wisconsin Proud (Jun 22, 2007)

slb said:


> No, they don't fix if it has a serial number.
> And, the AD system is nothing less than price-fixing.
> If they want to compete, then let ADs sell at the price people will pay.
> It's a cop-out.
> ...


It's not price fixing. Each AD can sell at a discount which could vary the price upwards of 30%.

Just like haggling for a new car.

Bottom line - if you don't like the price, search for another brand that doesn't cost as much.


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## slb (Jun 26, 2008)

Wisconsin Proud said:


> It's not price fixing. Each AD can sell at a discount which could vary the price upwards of 30%.
> 
> Just like haggling for a new car.
> 
> Bottom line - if you don't like the price, search for another brand that doesn't cost as much.


It's not the money - although many are better for less - I have more expensive watches too.
And, I've never seen an AD asking near a 30% discount - that's a joke.
It's de facto price-fixing, sorry.
That's OK, I spend a good deal on watches - it just won't be with TISSOT again.
I loved the concept of the Touch Expert, but it's over-priced for the reliability I've experienced and read about online.

Just one man's experiences and comments - not meant to be anything other than that.


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## seanpiper (Nov 17, 2007)

slb said:


> It's not the money - although many are better for less - I have more expensive watches too.
> And, I've never seen an AD asking near a 30% discount - that's a joke.
> It's de facto price-fixing, sorry.
> That's OK, I spend a good deal on watches - it just won't be with TISSOT again.
> ...


slb,

It's clear you're quite emotional about your experience.

May I suggest that if you're uncomfortable with the way we handle our Authorised Dealer system, and won't be buying Tissot again because of it, you'll do well to never again buy Omega, Longines, Rado, Swatch, Tag Heuer, IWC, Chopard, Rolex, Breitling, Cartier, Panerai, Breguet or Baume & Mercier. I've worked with all of these brands and they all operate in exactly the same way!! If it's purchased from a non-AD they generally won't touch it.

Regarding your comment on price fixing. Here in Australia the ACCC prevents any manufacturer from affecting the price passed onto the consumer through different POS. For example, it's against the law for me to visit a store and find out their maximum discount, then run down the road to our other POS and let them know how much to undercut the other guy by. We would be breaking the fair trade agreement and would cop a hefty fine.

Our responsibility ends once we've sold the wholesale units to the retailer (in which case EVERYBODY gets the same wholesale rate). We set a RRP, but essentially the retailer can do whatever the hell they like with it. If they sell at only 2% discount, all well and good! If they tip them in a basket out the front with a "Free, take one!" sign then that's their prerogative. But, if they on-sell to other dealers without marking the warranty card with their offical dealer stamp, that's where the problems arise.

This is also the reason why we will charge a retailer AUD$50 for replacement warranty cards. Otherwise the online dealer issue would be even more prevalent, with blank warranty cards floating around all over the place.

I imagine these policies would be consistent internationally.

Hope this goes further to clearing up a few un-truths. Enjoy your new, um... , Lorus. Those guys will sell from anywhere!!


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## dozer (Sep 12, 2008)

seanpiper said:


> ff11,
> 
> I think you may be missing the point of the discussion? We (Tissot) as a company will not provide any dealer who is not authorised by us, with any stock. Therefore any sales generated by these grey-market/online dealers provides Tissot with no benefit whatsoever. The watches origin can not be traced, nor can the authenticity of these pieces be guarateed. This is not exclusive to Tissot, and is common practice for the majority of Swiss Made timepieces.
> 
> ...


Hi,

I'm somewhat new to watches but I'm curious about a few issues.
Some questions...

1) So when we pay some amount to an AD then we pay for the warranty, servicing, handling, shipping etc. And when we pay a grey market dealer then we pay for the watch only and not the warranty...?

2) Can we buy from an AD a watch without these extra features/privileges and pay less? At least we'll know that the watch is original.

3) If not then how are grey market dealers able to sell watches for big discounts (assuming they've paid the full amount to buy an original Tissot watch)? If they get the watches from Tissot dealers for cheaper rates then why is it so?

These questions are applicable to any brand actually but this topic caught my interest.

Thanks,
Dozer


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## slb (Jun 26, 2008)

Cute. Deleting posts now.
There was nothing in there that should have been deleted in an open discussion, but I see how this joint is run.
Your house, your rules.
Thanks fellas.


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## eurocopter (Nov 16, 2007)

Some interesting information in this thread. I was always curious but never asked, until now.

a) What is the wholesale price that the AD pays of the MSRP? 50%, more, less?

b) So as I read the thread, I come to the conclusion that when Tissot (SG) repair the watch under warranty (bought from AD, in the warranty period) then service center actually seeks reimbursement for the warranty repair cost from the AD who stamped the warranty card for that particular watch. Right? And I mean scenario when the customer is not dealing with the AD after purchase, but sends the watch for service himself so the AD is not even aware of any issues.

c) Since we have here such a great source of insider info, what is the percentage of the T-Touch watches with "stuck compass" issue that is sometimes easily remedied by putting it in the freezer, but unfortunately the syndrome reappears when the watch returns to ambient temperature.

d) And last question, I guess only for the pros in the field. What is the estimated percentage of T-Touch watches that are indeed faulty but are never claimed for service since the "general public" cannot notice any problems while using the watch strictly in TIME mode. % of total production to date.

The above applies to T-Touch, NOT Expert or Sea-Touch. Thanks in advance. :thanks


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## seanpiper (Nov 17, 2007)

dozer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm somewhat new to watches but I'm curious about a few issues.
> Some questions...
> ...


1) Essentially by purchsing grey market you are forfeiting any privileges/add-on's (warranty, etc.)

2) I can only speak from my experience within the Australian market, however I can see this scenario happening. However as mentioned previously, once we supply the stock it's up to the dealer how they sell it. Having said that, this practice would be frowned upon and the account probably wouldn't remain open very long.

3) From the research I've done in the past greay market watches come from two main sources. The majority will be returned purchases/staff wear watches. These have been polished up and restored to a saleable condition to sell on as "new" stock. Some dealers will sell these on to grey marekt dealers at a loss to generate cash flow, and for the fact they've had a watch to wear for 6, 12, 18 months, they'll consider it a pretty good deal.

The other common source is businesses purchasing numerous models as corporate gifts. We offer the option of opening a corporate account to purchase staff incentives, retirement gifts, etc. at reduced prices. While these are higher than wholesale, it is well below what you'd normally expect to pay retail. Obviously on selling these pieces via a website can turn a quick profit.

Both these situations fall outside of our agreement with dealers/partners and are not condoned by any watch company, to the best of my knowledge.


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## seanpiper (Nov 17, 2007)

eurocopter said:


> Some interesting information in this thread. I was always curious but never asked, until now.
> 
> a) What is the wholesale price that the AD pays of the MSRP? 50%, more, less?
> 
> ...


a) I don't feel comfortable revealing that sort of information in a public forum. Plus, you may find things work differently in certain countries depending on invoice terms, purchase quantities, etc. Let's just say that if you manage to haggle a discount of more than 30% on a swiss watch, that dealer will struggle to pay the bills that day 

b) There is no reimbursement necessary as this cost is built into the wholesale price charged when the AD buys the stock. This is actually a small percentage of the overall cost compared to other factors such as display material, staff training, consumer gifts, etc.

Sending the watch directly as a consumer doesn't affect this situation, as the cost of repairs, assessment, testing has been accounted for by the AD. One of the benefits of purchasing from an AD.

c) Hard to say. Not spending much time in customer service I couldn't tell you what percentage have certain issues. However sounds like a humidity problem? We come across this sort of thing in North Queensland where the climate is sub-tropical.

Don't quote me on that though 

d) Impossible to say what % may be faulty if we've never had a chance to assess them???

Here's the low down.... An early movement for the T Touch was VERY buggy. It was before my time but I believe it was generation 3. These had heaps of issues and really had the biggest effect on bringing down Tissot's good reputation. The bugs were ironed out and are yet to resurface. We are currently up to generation 6 I believe.

Since then however there's been a lot of paranoia surrounding T Touch. That's not to say there hasn't been an oddball piece slip through the cracks here and there; nothing will ever be perfect. But due to the bad wrap T Touch got early on everyones usually pretty quick to jump all over a faulty compass, barometer, etc.

Don't get me wrong... I see issues every week with our watches across the range, but I don't feel there are more faulty Tissot's than there are faulty Tag's, Omega's or Breitling's.

As for percentages, recent figures show 60% of T Touch's that are returned to SG watchmakers have no fault whatsoever. I put this down to lack of consumer knowledge, which is a result of a lack in information being relayed during the sale, which is a result of low staff confidence in the watches. It's a vicious little circle 

I hope that answers part of your question... in a roundabout kinda way!


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## Davidkoh (Feb 12, 2009)

I got a question for you. Does buying a Tissot online automatically make the warranty dissapear? I live in Sweden and one of the stores who are in a group of stores which are the AD for Tissot have an option to buy online.

They say they deliver the watch with all the warranties and all that the physical stores do, but since it's all done online you can save 50 bucks or so.

So my question is, is it the "online sale" that makes it a grey market sale or is it buying it from a non AD? Would it be fine to buy online from a AD?


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## Otto Phan (May 26, 2008)

seanpiper said:


> a) I don't feel comfortable revealing that sort of information in a public forum. Plus, you may find things work differently in certain countries depending on invoice terms, purchase quantities, etc. Let's just say that if you manage to haggle a discount of more than 30% on a swiss watch, that dealer will struggle to pay the bills that day
> 
> b) There is no reimbursement necessary as this cost is built into the wholesale price charged when the AD buys the stock. This is actually a small percentage of the overall cost compared to other factors such as display material, staff training, consumer gifts, etc.
> 
> ...


If the cost is built into the wholesale price of the watch, why does it matter how the AD sold the watch? Online or brick & mortor?

My senses (and experience from being a District Sales Mgr of a consumer goods company) tell me there's several things at play:

1) Benefit to being an AD. Tissot is only going to do certain things for ADs becasue without them, they have NO network. Working through an AD assures them their product is being treated and sold in a certain way.

2) Which leads me into my next point. Buying a watch from a non AD, Tissot has no idea what the condition was BEFORE sale. Kind of like "breaking seal voids warranty". If it's junk being sold by an AD because he's not taking care of his product or worse, they have a course of action. They have records they can go through. They do not have that with a non AD.

3) Tissot does not want online sales because online sales are passive. Something is being bought not really "sold". Additionally, there's no opportunity to do any of the other things Tissot (or any company for that matter) may want them to do. Online sales do not respect territory either. I can be an AD in Crater Junction that moves smaller volume with much more effort (due to demos) than a larger AD in Miami who is selling a hell of a lot more high end watches. Now I have to compete with him through online sales. He's better positioned to discount than I am. So now Tissot has no AD in Crater Junction.... I see no QC reason for not wanting online sales. It's sounds more like an effot to maintain a stable nettwork.

4) My opinion is watch company's have a love hate relationship with the grey market. It provides volume but no control. The margin that is sacrificed is the ADs not there's. The watch is sold. Image wise, they can take a hit as we see in this thread and also that "don't pay 2k for that Tag, it's not worth that much..." metality is driven by the non AD discounts people see.

Tissot and other watch companies could easily crack down on this by asking their dealers to do certain things when they sell a watch. Watches have serial numbers so they're traceble. It's not like this is rocket science. They don't preferring to crack back on the consumer when it is their own dealers that supply the grey market.

Having said all that, I love the Tissot PRS516 Auto and now that I have the disposable coin saved, I'm going to buy one. If I want a warranty, I have to well, you know....


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## Chronox (Apr 20, 2008)

Otto Phan said:


> If the cost is built into the wholesale price of the watch, why does it matter how the AD sold the watch? Online or brick & mortor?
> 
> My senses (and experience from being a District Sales Mgr of a consumer goods company) tell me there's several things at play:
> 
> ...


There was a similar issue at the Seiko/Citizen/Orient forum. Someone asked why were Seiko watches more expensive in the US than abroad. The answer was that in the US we get 3 years of warranty while you have 1 year internationally. Warranties are never free, they are added to the product's price (we call it fixed cost). We might never use it, but when we do, it makes our lives easier. 
For example, I bought a Seiko diver from an online AD. Some time ago, the date was not switching, a problem with the discs. I contacted Seiko USA, acknowledged the watch came from an AD and told me to send it in. I paid the shipping and the insurance, but it was serviced (and they also changed the gaskets and pressure tested the watch). Good enough, right? As a counter example, I bought a PRS 516 from a local AD. It was a bit more expensive that buying it from an online dealer (but still cheaper than list price, due to the AD's discount). However, one of the marker's lume was not applied correctly. The AD took care of it, called me when it was done, plus it had been regulated to +5 sec/day versus +15 sec/day as most Tissots como from factory. No shipping/handling fees.

I hope this helps to show the difference from buying from a grey market and a serious AD. Yes, there are AD' and AD's, but you pay for what you get in life.

BTW. If you read the booklet included in the box, it describes that Tissot was the first to offer an unlimited 1 year warranty, something that had to be dropped by the rest of the Swiss watch industry. It also tells that one of its strengths was its relationships with its dealers around the world, something that was need by Omega and the reason for their cooperation in order to survive during the Great Depression. Just take a moment for the reason of the AD's.

Cheers.
:-!


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

This may vary by locale. This will vary from brand to brand. Many will not allow
"point and click" and purchase has to be done by phone. Check with that
store to make sure that factory warranty is stamped and properly filled
out. So no, purchase on-line doesn't mean it's Grey Market and at the
other end, there're Grey Market "brick and mortar" stores. Doing your
homework is critical.


Davidkoh said:


> I got a question for you. Does buying a Tissot online automatically make the warranty dissapear? I live in Sweden and one of the stores who are in a group of stores which are the AD for Tissot have an option to buy online.
> 
> They say they deliver the watch with all the warranties and all that the physical stores do, but since it's all done online you can save 50 bucks or so.
> 
> So my question is, is it the "online sale" that makes it a grey market sale or is it buying it from a non AD? Would it be fine to buy online from a AD?


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## Otto Phan (May 26, 2008)

Chronox said:


> There was a similar issue at the Seiko/Citizen/Orient forum. Someone asked why were Seiko watches more expensive in the US than abroad. The answer was that in the US we get 3 years of warranty while you have 1 year internationally. Warranties are never free, they are added to the product's price (we call it fixed cost). We might never use it, but when we do, it makes our lives easier.
> For example, I bought a Seiko diver from an online AD. Some time ago, the date was not switching, a problem with the discs. I contacted Seiko USA, acknowledged the watch came from an AD and told me to send it in. I paid the shipping and the insurance, but it was serviced (and they also changed the gaskets and pressure tested the watch). Good enough, right? As a counter example, I bought a PRS 516 from a local AD. It was a bit more expensive that buying it from an online dealer (but still cheaper than list price, due to the AD's discount). However, one of the marker's lume was not applied correctly. The AD took care of it, called me when it was done, plus it had been regulated to +5 sec/day versus +15 sec/day as most Tissots como from factory. No shipping/handling fees.
> 
> I hope this helps to show the difference from buying from a grey market and a serious AD. Yes, there are AD' and AD's, but you pay for what you get in life.
> ...


I understand what your saying I just don't think it comes down to costs. Unless the AD is paying a portion of retail to the watch company for the warranty, the warranty is paid when the watch is wholesaled to the AD isn't it? Because they know the watch, shouldn't they know what warranty it was sold with by virtue of the AD that got it from them?

At any rate, as a guy that used to call on wholesalers in another industry, I recognize the value of ADs. I'm just calling into question the notion that the inflated retail pays for a warranty. I also wonder how much of a problem watch companies have with the grey market since it's their guys that supply it.


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## seanpiper (Nov 17, 2007)

It's easy for this whole issue to become a little cloudy, especially with Tissot. We still supply our warranty cards blank and generic. Therefore it's very difficult to differentiate between AD sales, online sales, and grey market dealers.

Longines and Omega, for example, now supply an individual warranty card with each watch. This is pre-printed with reference, serial, and AD's details. This pretty well puts a stop to sell-on's, etc as the sale can be traced back to it's point of origin. This is also why it's rare for grey market Omega's to come with any official warranty card. The AD's know it's too risky and their account would be closed if this sort of practice was found out.

Tissot could go down the path of pre-printing our cards, but it's a surprisingly expensive process. Obviously this would be past on in the RRP. Not a preferred option!


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## Otto Phan (May 26, 2008)

Thanks. That's what I was referring to. The Longines/Omega example. I could see how it would be easier to absorb the cost with with more expensive watches though.


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## freaking102 (Apr 13, 2008)

Montana Watch Collector said:


> I recently returned a Tissot Titanium Touch watch for repairs right at the 2 year warranty period. My dealer sent it back and was told it would cost over $200.00 to repair. I then send them a copy of my receipt and was told that it would be covered under warranty so I had them go ahead with the repair.
> 
> A month later my dealer received the watch back and had been charged the $200.00+ for the repairs. Tissot now tells me that my dealer is not an authorized dealer so they do not honor the warranty. There are no authorized dealer in my area so my dealer got the watch for me from an authorized dealer.
> 
> ...


That's why I never recommend purchase of expensive new watches. Better to buy a quartz, buy used rather than new, and buy a knock-off instead of original. Watches are fragile and will break. Buy an inexpensive disposable or buy something you are willing to pay to have repaired locally.

The high end watches are a rip-off. You buy a car and the warranty is transferrable. You buy a watch and the manufacturer looks for any reason to avoid standing behind their product. Rdputable manufacturers stand behind their product, and stand behind their product whether or not their product is resold.


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## nobags (Feb 16, 2009)

I am new to this site and found myself here because I want to buy a Tissot Expert. I have written to Tissot on Dec 12 asking about have some specific questions about a T Touch and or Expert (I did this on the official Tissot site). I received an automatic response saying someone will contact me soon. I did not hear from them so last week I resubmitted a request for info, got an confirmation again, but no resonse again. I so want to get one of these ,but if I cant get any questions answered before I buy ,how hard will it be for Tissot to service me if I have an issue with their product? I also was reading some of the previous posts here and am not sure how come some many Experts are for sale on the internet. I assume since they are not AD's, the warrentee cards are useless right?Are these returned and refurbished to be resold? Could it be THAT many already have been returned? What a HOT looking watch non the less!I am hesitant about pulling the trigger on one! What a wealth of info on this site.

BC


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## freaking102 (Apr 13, 2008)

seanpiper said:


> slb,
> 
> May I suggest that if you're uncomfortable with the way we handle our Authorised Dealer system, and won't be buying Tissot again because of it, you'll do well to never again buy Omega, Longines, Rado, Swatch, Tag Heuer, IWC, Chopard, Rolex, Breitling, Cartier, Panerai, Breguet or Baume & Mercier. I've worked with all of these brands and they all operate in exactly the same way!! If it's purchased from a non-AD they generally won't touch it.


Great brands like Patagonia, North Face, Nordstrom and LandsEnd stand behind their products regardless of warranty card or receipt. Funny how I can buy a $30 pair of swim trunks and Patagonia will replace them 5 years later, and I can buy a $2,500 Omega and Omega will disavow their product ASAP. Ha, ha, funny world. Pick your loyalties carefully (p.s. I love Patagonia for their products and warranty, love Nordstrom for their attention to customer service and credo that customer is always right).


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## slb (Jun 26, 2008)

Yeah, I don't get the industry apologists here - sans the ADs who tow the line.
No other item I have bought which costs a lot has ever proven to be a joke like Tissot.
The authorized SC here in LA is like what I imagine a bail bond room is like.
Very unimpressive to say the least.
It's OK, I know this one will get deleted too.
Nobody here apparently values opposing points of view.
This is why businesses are going under.
They forgot how to service customers.
Look at the good ones - like Apple - they're doing well in spite of the economy.
Watch sellers are a dime a dozen, so I'll stick to the ones that work.


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## Otto Phan (May 26, 2008)

freaking102 said:


> Great brands like Patagonia, North Face, Nordstrom and LandsEnd stand behind their products regardless of warranty card or receipt. Funny how I can buy a $30 pair of swim trunks and Patagonia will replace them 5 years later, and I can buy a $2,500 Omega and Omega will disavow their product ASAP. Ha, ha, funny world. Pick your loyalties carefully (p.s. I love Patagonia for their products and warranty, love Nordstrom for their attention to customer service and credo that customer is always right).


Higher sales price does not always mean higher margins or profits. In some ways, you've answered your own question. It's a lot easier for Patagonia to send out another $30.00 pair of swim trunks that cost them $2.00 to make. A lot tougher for watches. I would agree customer service for many watch companies could use major work but others are pretty good. The key is not expecting something watch companies typically don't do and state they will not do. Also, like any company, stay away from those that will not back up their product in the manner they say they will.


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## Otto Phan (May 26, 2008)

slb said:


> Yeah, I don't get the industry apologists here - sans the ADs who tow the line.
> No other item I have bought which costs a lot has ever proven to be a joke like Tissot.
> The authorized SC here in LA is like what I imagine a bail bond room is like.
> Very unimpressive to say the least.
> ...


Your second post actually gets to the heart of what my issue is. New products being supplied by ADs and sold through non ADs. Unlike you, I fundamentally don't have a problem with them not honoring the warranty on those watches. My issue is to do that, I think they have to do a better job trying to curtail the sale of those watches. Not servicing period is a whole other issue....


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## Walking Dude (Dec 28, 2008)

I'll give you a little feeback, for what it's worth. I've owned an expert for almost two months now. I've been quite happy with. Prior to buying it I went through similar procedures, basically contacting several AD's, to get a good feel or at least some opinions, especially after reading some of the negative comments on the internet. I was somewhat amazed at the degree of positive feedback that I received. I was also amazed that many of the dealers, who had been selling Tissots for some time, said that they had very few problems and a couple of dealers said that they had never had a return. A couple dealers had also purchased t-touches for themselves and commented on how impressed they were with the watches, even after years of wear and tear. Now obviously dealers have some bias, but I contacted enough of them to feel like I had received some genuine and sincere information. 
Regarding internet sales, I found and was told that a dealer can advertize all he wants but he just can't post low pricing, etc. I was never even able to find an Expert on the internet that had below msrp pricing attached to it. I figure the T-Touches that are on the web at low prices basically constitute the "grey market" 
In short, my advise would be to do as I did and call a few AD's and get some feedback, etc. I think you'll find what you're looking for and many of them had some price flexibility as well. Good Luck.


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## vealmike (Jul 3, 2008)

seanpiper said:


> ff11,
> 
> . *60% of all T-Touch's we receive back to our workshop have no fault at all*. These are comprised of consumers lacking a proper knowledge of the piece, and sychronisation issues, which is a 2 minute fix as detailed in the instructions.


Hi Sean,
Firstly, I'd like to say :-!. Nice to have someone from Tissot here trumpeting the cause and very obviously being as honest as they can be. Good work!

Secondly, Your figures on the T-Touch worry me. I have a background as a quality engineer. I was responsible for the quality levels of goods shipped froma production line. 60% no fault found on returns should be raising a massive red flag to you.

Your customers are not idiots, although the T-Touch is a complex watch.
Might I suggest that you further break down these numbers. "No Fault Found" is not the same as "requires synchronisation". Please let me explain:
"Requires synchronisation" indicates that consumers are not reading the manual, (or it may indicate a fault which is fixed by synchroinisation).

"No Fault Found" many indicate that the consumer is not using the watch correctly, it may also indicate that your test process is not able to detect the problem reported. With such a high proportion of watches in this category, you (Tissot) should actively follow up on customer returns, a phone call 1 week after the watch has been returned to check all is well.
No test process can catch 100% of faulty product. Assuming that you have a perfect returns process can be very dangerous.

At the very best this 60% figure indicates that the documentation shipped with this watch is inadequate, or the user interface too complex.

I don't want to teach you guys at Tissot to suck eggs - but that 60% is something you should be ashamed of, not proud of ! Or rather, regard it as a massive opportunity for improvement.

Best of luck,
Mikers.


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## seanpiper (Nov 17, 2007)

vealmike said:


> Hi Sean,
> Firstly, I'd like to say :-!. Nice to have someone from Tissot here trumpeting the cause and very obviously being as honest as they can be. Good work!
> 
> Secondly, Your figures on the T-Touch worry me. I have a background as a quality engineer. I was responsible for the quality levels of goods shipped froma production line. 60% no fault found on returns should be raising a massive red flag to you.
> ...


You're 100% correct!

We identified that the instruction manual being supplied with the T Touch was inadequate and difficult to understand. Since then we have been supplying all new pieces, as well as any being returned from service, with a DVD instruction guide. 15 minutes long, walking you step by step through every function.

Just to clarify, "no fault found" may indeed be miseleading. That's not to say that customers are stupid. By our survey it relates to the watch being in a state that can be corrected very quickly without opening the case (ie: Syncro, Altitude reading, Thermo reading, etc.)

All of these quick "fixes" were outlined in the original instruction manual, but obviously not very well!! Hence the DVD.


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## Chronox (Apr 20, 2008)

Otto Phan said:


> Thanks. That's what I was referring to. The Longines/Omega example. I could see how it would be easier to absorb the cost with with more expensive watches though.


True, but we all know that production volume decreases costs. More important, Tissot sells mores watches, about 2 million a year, according to Nicolas Hayek jr (got the Omega special issue from Watchtime!). So, it would not be such a great cost in implementing this in Tissot or even better, the entire Swatch Corp and reduce the grey market and the complaints.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers! |>


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## slb (Jun 26, 2008)

seanpiper said:


> You're 100% correct!
> 
> We identified that the instruction manual being supplied with the T Touch was inadequate and difficult to understand. Since then we have been supplying all new pieces, as well as any being returned from service, with a DVD instruction guide. 15 minutes long, walking you step by step through every function.
> 
> ...


That's good to hear.
I'm a computer engineer by trade, and pretty technically savvy, but the instructions are pretty bad, IMHO.
It took me a long time to get how they went about the steps.
It's almost like they tried to translate them from a completely different culture/language. 
I would love to see some new instructions - is there a PDF, or only DVD?

Scott


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## seanpiper (Nov 17, 2007)

slb said:


> That's good to hear.
> I'm a computer engineer by trade, and pretty technically savvy, but the instructions are pretty bad, IMHO.
> It took me a long time to get how they went about the steps.
> It's almost like they tried to translate them from a completely different culture/language.
> ...


Hi Scott,

A PDF version of the instruction manual is available at www.t-touch.com however even I find it tough to follow.

Enquire with your local SG office and see if they have the T-touch DVD's available. Otherwise check with your AD to see if they have them.

At this stage the standard T-Touch is the only one with DVD instructions. The Expert DVD shouldn't be far away.

On a sad note, I saw the user's guide that comes with the Sea-Touch today. I've got a fair idea of what's going on, but oh my god it's tough to follow!!! No words, just images. I think it won't be long until they have a DVD for that on too!!! (fingers crossed)


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## slb (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks Sean - I have the current (old?) PDF and of course, the manual.
Pretty bad...
I was hoping they'd done better after reading your post.
Are you saying the T-Touch PDF is new?

Scott


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## seanpiper (Nov 17, 2007)

slb said:


> Thanks Sean - I have the current (old?) PDF and of course, the manual.
> Pretty bad...
> I was hoping they'd done better after reading your post.
> Are you saying the T-Touch PDF is new?
> ...


I'm not sure that the PDF currently posted is new? However I've found the Expert manual to be much more straightforward than the T Touch manual.


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## jamestownoasis (Jul 27, 2007)

Sorry to drag this thread back from the abyss, but for some reason I find this topic fascinating and would like to know where I'm going wrong.

Perhaps the easiest way to start this would be listing some thoughts of mine and discovering if they're salient or essentially, wrong.

Here goes:

1. Is it correct to say that Tissot "builds in" the cost of warranty repair/shipping into the wholesale cost of their watches?

2. Is it safe to safe that Tissot ONLY or majorally ships watches to AD's?

3. If #2 is true, is it ok to assume that Tissot can verify the genuineness of any of their watches through their serial numbering system?

4. Now, if all of the above are true, why does it matter WHO makes a warranty claim on a genuine Tissot watch within the warranty period?

5. Is is "right" to penalize a savvy consumer who's able to purchase a genuine article newly-used or through another dealer? Afterall, if we're conceding point #1, we're already agreeing that this watch was priced out of the factory to cover the warranty period.

6. Is the notion somehow that a 2nd or "grey market" purchaser is not worthy of the warranty...or worse, that somehow a watch that's not purchased directly from an AD more inclined to be abused/mistreated?

Maybe there's hugely obvious reasoning behind all of this and I'm just not seeing it...wouldn't be the first time, I suppose.

Honestly though, I agree with a few other posters in that it just seems like a form of price control. How can it be anything else? And really, it matters not to me that it's widespread amongst other manufacturers, respectfully, that has nothing to do with the legitimacy of such a practice.

If Tissot is moving watches out their factory to ADs and are happy with what they're getting for them, where is the inherent problem with those AD's moving those identical timepieces around at a price that satisifes _them?_

Tissot is happy at price "A".

The AD is also happy with price "A".

Now, lets' assume the watch is "traceable" and the end owner ("grey market" buyer, 2nd owner) is happy with price "B"...that of which he paid the old owner/"grey" dealer (who again paid the AD their asking price for the watch in question, who of course paid Tissot their asking sum).

Now: Why should this timepiece not be covered under warranty? :-s

thanks in advance for the insight.

James


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