# Solar powered watches = limited lifespan?



## leastonh (May 29, 2012)

Hi,

I bought a Citizen Eco-drive watch a number of years ago. After 10yrs or so, the watch stopped working and was sent to Citizen. They said it couldn't be repaired because an internal battery/capacitor had failed (I forget exactly which component, but it was no longer able to store the energy generated by the solar panel) and the part needed was 'no longer available for this particular model'.

This put me off buying another solar or eco-drive powered watch. Is a 10yr lifespan a common scenario for these types of watches or is it reasonable to expect them to last for significantly longer?

I haven't posted in the Citizen forum because I'd like to know if this 'problem' extends to other brands which use solar technology.

Cheers muchly


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

You should in fact post in the Citizen forum since they are the leaders in the technology, and make the majority of watches powered in this manner. 

As the prices of these watches are fairly low to begin with, it doesn't seem too much of a problem that they "only" function for ten or twelve years--I know that if my own 12 year-old Eco-Drive stopped working, I likely wouldn't waste money trying to get it repaired, but would simply buy a new one, since the repair of ANY watch requires opening it up, taking it apart, reassembling and setting it, which usually costs at a minimum about the same amount that I could buy a new one for, even if parts were available.


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## Steelerswit (Oct 4, 2016)

Don't know about Citizens, but I have G-shock solars that are 20 yrs that are 20yrs on the same battery and still working like the day they rolled out of the factory. 

Sent from Capt Kirk's Communicator


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## Brucy (May 30, 2013)

Pretty sure my Citizen BM6400 was well over the decade mark.

I suppose Citizen like Seiko, particularly here in NZ have seen prices increase not unexpectedly over the last decade where some of the decent diver models are starting to get what I would call up there in terms of retail price.

For some and I count myself in this, $300-$400 on a diver that is only going to last 10 years is not an acceptable proposition.

Not sure whether this is an early model issue or not but citizen certainly seem to suggest that their eco-drive should last at least 20 years. We’ve all heard or indeed have had a Seiko Auto that spent goodness knows how long in a drawer or gone decades without a service and works fine... I would like to think that providing your citizen gets light, a few decades shouldn’t be unreasonable

I think Citizen have a lot to offer and I do love a number of their watches. 

I haven’t tried any other solar powered watches to know what the market has to offer

Don’t let it put you off though, but bear in mind, citizen are great beaters or daily wears for me and I am not likely to keep hold of them for decades, although my RN diver is starting to creep up on terms of years


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## James A (Jan 5, 2014)

I think you might have been unlucky - not sure what movement was in the watch but you'd think they could have just swapped it over.

Here's mine still going strong from 1976 just to show these things have longevity.



Regards,


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## Barry H (Oct 1, 2008)

I think this is a difficult question to answer definitively because of the (very) small sample of reported longevity/problems. This watch has lasted 20 yrs vs this other watch died after 3 years... We also don't know what abuse or lack of it a particular watch has been subjected to. It's all anecdotal evidence, but it's all we have to go on.

However, I expect manufacturing processes and battery technology has come on in the last 10 years. I have an analogue Seiko solar bought in 2015. I always keep it exposed to some light on the bedroom windowsill when not being worn. I also have a ana/digi Casio Lineage RC/Solar bought in 2013 that I keep in a drawer since I never wear it these days. Whenever I remember to check it the battery is always on 'HI' charge, but this one does have power saving whereas the Seiko doesn't. (Interestingly, the seconds hand hits all the markers exactly on both watches). I'd expect the electronics to last at least 20 years, probably much longer. The battery is a different matter. Looking after the battery (keep on high charge with no deep discharges) is key.

I'll be disappointed if either of them doesn't last at LEAST 10 years and I wouldn't be at all surprised if one or both lasts >20 years with no significant deterioration in performance. For the price of either it's still fantastic VFM (about £1 a month over 10 years) and no faffing about with battery changes.


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## leastonh (May 29, 2012)

Thank you for the replies, much appreciated.

Maybe I was unlucky then as it does sound like I should have expected much longer from the watch.

It wasn't hugely expensive (£300 ish), but I think it was reasonable to expect it to last much longer than 10yrs. I've had watches that cost 10x less that are still going strong after 20yrs. I'd have happily spent £100 or so on a repair, but it wasn't to be. Part of my disappointment stems from the fact that I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to watches and generally don't like to part with them 

Citizen watches are some of my faves for beaters and this experience did put me off for a long time, hence the post.

Apologies for posting in the wrong forum.


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## X2-Elijah (Dec 25, 2009)

Older citizen designs had capacitor lifespans of 10-20 years, the common expectation was that a Citizen servicing would replace the capacitors. Unfortunately, sounds like Citizen no longer has that particular spare part (???). The longevity of contemporary citizen movements should be somewhat higher, tbh.

Imo a reasonable expectation for ecodrives would be that the capacitors need exchanging (via citizen service) once per a couple of decades. If citizen service cannot do that, then.. yeah, it's a problem.


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## or_rs (Aug 13, 2018)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-Drive#Solar_cell_and_secondary_battery_life_expectancy



> According to Citizen, experimental data showed the solar cell and secondary battery will last for more than 10 years.[SUP][22][/SUP] According to Citizen Europe, laboratory tests showed that after 20 years the secondary battery retains a power storage capacity of 80% of its initial capacity.[SUP][23][/SUP] Newer Citizen claims state the rechargeable/secondary batteries will last up to 40 years and that it is highly unusual for these batteries to fail.[SUP][24][/SUP]


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

I recall reading about some owners replacing the cell. So it may be available from an online battery retailer.

edit: I did a little searching. Amazon sells replacement lithium cells for EcoDrive movements. So hopefully it is a matter of finding out which one. A good watch repair shop should be able to identify the cell and do this work. I know of a small shop that disassembles and repairs quartz movements so the expertise is out there.


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## rcorreale (Jan 25, 2008)

Sounds like it was one of the earlier first generation of solar charged Citizens that used a capacitor. The newer ones all use rechargeable batteries that can be replaced like any common button style battery and should easily give 15-20 years or more of service as long as you don’t let it deplete completely. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rocket1991 (Mar 15, 2018)

It been asked many times and even more times answered.
Yes you can expect 20yr + lifespan.
Yes many members on this forum have 20yr or so watches be it Citizen or Casio
Yes you can kill it if it don't get sufficient charge
Yes any light will work and yes for Citizen it very fast charging and reliable movememnt.
Citizen gives 5yr warranty on their watches and it among longest in the industry. You won't get it for unreliable product. 
If you get new EcoDrive let it bask for few hours in the sun every week, let say on weekend, and it will be fine.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

If the watch has a capacitor then they are a known weak point and sometimes fail on you. A watch that makes use of the slightly newer battery technology requires a little more care and attention - not a lot, just make sure not to leave it in the dark for long periods. Keep it well charged and you can expect to get 15 to 20 years out of one.


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Did it stop running recently?


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## jerouy (Feb 13, 2017)

Everything has limited lifespan. Everything.
You may try your luck on eBay for a replacement battery. Otherwise just move on. After all 10 year's life from a watch is fair.
Mine Eco-Drive is approaching 10yo. I will simply buy another one should it die.


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## leastonh (May 29, 2012)

It was the capacitor that had failed - I checked back through the paperwork. Citizen told me (via the jeweller who sent it to them on my behalf) that the watch wasn't repairable due to its age and the part was not available.

I'm going back 4yrs+ since all this happened and the watch was at least 10yrs old then, possibly 12. I no longer have the watch and do wish, after reading this thread, that I'd kept it and done more digging into possible repairs. I guess at the time I trusted what the manufacturers were telling me and that the watch was permanently dead.

The reason I brought this up now is because of my love for diver's watches and I keep seeing Citizen models that look fantastic. I should get over myself and just take the plunge and buy one


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

Just dive in (pun intended). Modern Eco-Drives are battery powered and like I said in my earlier post with a bit of TLC there's no reason why you shouldn't get 15 or 20 years out of one.


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## murokello (Aug 3, 2012)

X2-Elijah said:


> Older citizen designs had capacitor lifespans of 10-20 years, the common expectation was that a Citizen servicing would replace the capacitors. Unfortunately, sounds like Citizen no longer has that particular spare part (???). The longevity of contemporary citizen movements should be somewhat higher, tbh.
> 
> Imo a reasonable expectation for ecodrives would be that the capacitors need exchanging (via citizen service) once per a couple of decades. If citizen service cannot do that, then.. yeah, it's a problem.


Ebay is full of lithium replacement cells that replace the capacitor.


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## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

Yes ebay yould be the best bet.
Plenty of seiko kinetics have their capacitors replaced by rechargable Li ion batterys and there are kits on ebay to do it.

Got a seiko black knight and a seiko guigaro bought with replacement batteries installed.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

There are a number of outfits (HurleyRoberts, StewartTime to name a couple) that specialize in repairing solar powered watches. Send it in just as would a mechanical piece except instead of it being every 5-7 years, just do it when it dies. No big deal. Anyone just throwing away an otherwise good watch simply doesn't appreciate what they have to begin with.


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## leastonh (May 29, 2012)

You live and learn. I ended up selling the watch on ebay for spares and described as broken for very little. I'm a bit disappointed I didn't hold onto it now after reading your replies. Back to hoarding the broken ones in future for me!!


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

leastonh said:


> You live and learn. I ended up selling the watch on ebay for spares and described as broken for very little. I'm a bit disappointed I didn't hold onto it now after reading your replies. Back to hoarding the broken ones in future for me!!


If you want any tips on hoarding broken stuff drop me a PM. :-d :-d


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## leastonh (May 29, 2012)

sticky said:


> If you want any tips on hoarding broken stuff drop me a PM. :-d :-d


Haha, thank you. I will do! I have plans to (eventually) retire surrounded by hundreds of watches, some of which will even work, in various stages of being tinkered with, repaired, modded and generally messed with. Just because


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## d3xmeister (Sep 4, 2018)

Some people are into the ,,disposable,, mentality and some aren’t. I’m not, for me this was always a big problem with japanese watches in general, even mechanical. For example, Seiko doesn’t repair and don’t have parts for Grand Seiko’s as new as 80’s and 90’s. That’s a big NO-NO, if you want to pretend you compete with swiss watches, you have to do better than that. 

I have some old Seiko’s that I had a watchmaker make parts for it, and other that I had to buy another movement for harvesting parts, while I never had anything like that for my swiss watches made by reputable brands.

I don’t feel any different for quartz watches. The SHOULD last forever while being repairable over that time. If a cheap 80’s russian Slava quartz can be repaired today (Ronda movement) there’s no excuse for Citizen or Seiko.

I won’t get into why the ,,disposable,, menthality has hurt the human kind badly in the last century, I’ll just say that some people aren’t into that, and the japanese manufacturers have this problem since forever, and while it still last, they are just not in the same league as the swiss. And yes I do own many japanese watches and still buy them because I love them for many other different reasons, but when itks time to repair the old ones, it’s a pain and a deep feeling of disrespect from the the brands to me as a watch lover.


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## leastonh (May 29, 2012)

d3xmeister said:


> Some people are into the ,,disposable,, mentality and some aren't. I'm not, for me this was always a big problem with japanese watches in general, even mechanical. For example, Seiko doesn't repair and don't have parts for Grand Seiko's as new as 80's and 90's. That's a big NO-NO, if you want to pretend you compete with swiss watches, you have to do better than that.
> 
> I have some old Seiko's that I had a watchmaker make parts for it, and other that I had to buy another movement for harvesting parts, while I never had anything like that for my swiss watches made by reputable brands.
> 
> ...


You've echoed my feelings on the subject pretty well here, thanks.

Although I say the watch was 'only' £300, which is far from the luxury end of the market, it was a lot of money for a Citizen when I bought it. It does seem ironic that the Vostok manual winder I've just ordered is likely to last for many more years than the Citizen and costs a fraction of the price.

I guess the lack of parts for the likes of Citizen/Seiko is due to the sheer number of variations in models they make and how difficult it would be to keep stock of parts for them all for x number of years. The Russian brands like Vostok seem to keep to the same design and so I suppose it's relatively easy for them to maintain a stock of parts.

Most people I know don't collect watches and aren't in the market for a luxury brand, so don't expect their watch to last all that long. My old boss thought spending more than £5 on something that 'simply tells the time' was a complete waste of money! I haven't met many people who would have a watch repaired in the event of a failure after the warranty period expires. Add to that the fact that there seem to be very few watchmakers left on the high street. Lots of jewellers willing to replace batteries, but there aren't many with expertise in repairs.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

leastonh said:


> I haven't met many people who would have a watch repaired in the event of a failure after the warranty period expires. Add to that the fact that there seem to be very few watchmakers left on the high street. Lots of jewellers willing to replace batteries, but there aren't many with expertise in repairs.


My own family is strewn with defunct watches. Even a dead battery warrants a new watch, it seems.


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