# Is possible to lengthen the time a wind up clock runs?



## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

I have the mechanical half of a standard electric master clock that came out of a school. The electric movement has long sense quit, so I wanted to turn the mechanical half into an 8 day movement, Instead of an approximately 1 day movement.
Here is a picture of the spring, I think that if I just ordered a longer, or a heavier main spring and balance wheel spring that I could make it become an 8 day clock, however I want to here what people that have been around clocks more than I have. Thanks


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## rationaltime (May 1, 2008)

I am not a clock maker, but here is what I think about replacing the mainspring.

The escapement releases one tooth at a time. If the mainspring were stiffer
it would release at the same rate as it does now. It would just waste more
energy as it runs down. To get more time as the spring unwinds the gear ratio
would need to be changed.

A longer mainspring might provide more run time. However, it would need 
more space to expand. From the photo it appears to me the space is not
available.


Thanks,
rationaltime


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

Thank you for your reply, and now that you explained it that way it makes sense, and unfortunately I do not have access to the machines to make a year to further reduce the ratio. Now I wonder if I make the cylinder that the main spring is wrapped around smaller than there would be more revolutions before the spring ran out. So do you think that would work.


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

Sorry, it autocorrected to year, not gear


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## rationaltime (May 1, 2008)

I don't know. Could we see a photo showing the spring run down?
A clock maker could probably give you a better answer.

That spring looks expensive to replace.


Thanks,
rationaltime


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

I am away from the clock right now, however I would guess the spring to be about 1.5" X roughly 2 ft, I have never straightened it out of actually measure it. It should be all wound down by the time I get home. I will post it then 

Thanks
jshields2025


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

Well I got a better estimate when I got home, and it has to be between 4 and 6 ft long, and I'm afraid the main spring may have to be replaced, look at the gaps.







Here is another close up of the main spring itself


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

And another thing, it seems to be pulsing as it runs, it will seeming randomly speed up really fast and get noisy, then like you flipped a switch it will go back to a page that almost seems a little slow.


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Erratic running may be the result of the mainspring coils catching and releasing rather than sliding smoothly. If you have the electrical components consider restoring them.


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

Thank you for your response, sorry I am slow in my response.
I would have enjoyed restoring the electric half, however according to my machine shop teacher when he took it home and tested it the motor just began to get hot and smoke. He is a very mechanical individual and I took him art his word that the motor was junk. I looked into using the motor out of a slave clock, however when I took one out it had completely different numbers on it. I do not believe that they are even close to the same.
After close inspection ous the main spring I see some small gaps in the coils, making me believe that someone may have attempted to remove the main spring without the proper tools. I am going to try just putting a little oil on the spring to try to encourage free movement, however I've also looked into getting a new main spring, and to get the one I believe to be correct it will cost about $30- $40, and I am questioning why to invest that into a clock with no face, no case, no real collectable value, and it only runs about a day. I can make a case in the wood shop, and I plan on making a face in the machine shop. However I am starting to wonder if it is worth while for a 24 hour clock.

Sorry if it sounds like I ranted there, I'm really not mad, just beginning to question what I'm doing with this clock. The springs I looked into were labeled as 8 day springs, however when I compared them to what I estimated mine to be, they appeared to be the same.


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

A mainspring can can develop edge cracks over time. Unless you are looking for the satisfaction that comes from solving a challenging problem I would leave it as is. There are plenty of 1 day and 8 day clocks from 1900+- that would be fun to learn on and restore.


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

I do suppose that is true. I do enjoy the 1924 big ben alarm clock that I have, and it only runs a little over a day on one winding. Here recently I have been struggling with keeping this old school clock running. It seems to be pulsing a little bit, and sometimes it will just stop in the middle of the night, but if you out put a little bit of force on the main spring barrel it will start to tick again , and it may run for only a couple of hours, or until the spring runs out, I'm not sure quite what is going on, however it is a little frustrating, due to there seeming to be no rhyme or reason to its random stopping


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

I think your school clock is showing signs of needing a service. If it is a vintage 8 day it would be a good one to learn clock repair on.


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

The school clock I am talkin g about is this clock I've been working on, I think that sometime somebody has tried to remove the main spring without the correct tools and bent it in several places, when you look at the barrel the main spring has many gaps roughly a 1/32-1/16, in height. (By gaps I am referring to places where the main spring does not neatly nest into the previous cool of the spring) Just yesterday I found a massive crease roughly half way across the mainspring. I have taken the escapement off here recently and cleaned it the best I could, and put some good gun oil I had on the pivots.
This clock is no something I am willing to invest much in, and it is more of something to mess with in my free time, and to learn about how they work.
I do not have a local watch shop, so I am all alone in my mechanical clock venture, that is why I have turned here for some advice


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

It could be a good movement to practice disassembly, cleaning and reassembly on. Be sure to control that mainspring before removing it.


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

Yea, I got bit a little the first time I tried to take the escapement off. The clock survived the slight mishap fine. I just didn't have the main spring let all of the way down, and it spun the barrel about .125 of a turn. I'm starting to think of selling the movement to fund a few other projects I am looking at. The 2 projects I am looking at doing are getting a wwii vintage a11 wristwatch, and getting a baby ben built before the 1925 patent date. I have the big ben in the same age range and think it would make a really cool set. The wrist watch would have to be in operation before it came to my doorstep, I do not have the tools to even think about watch repair, and I do not have any watchsmith friends. This is just something I'm considering doing, I'm not dead set on it. I would like to hear what you might think a movement of this caliber would be worth to help me make up my mind.
Quick back story to give you an idea of its history. It is a sixties or seventies vintage movement. It was made by standard electric, and was the master for a school bell system. It used to have an electric motor that ran the clock and this movement was the backup. It runs roughly a day, however it is not presently in the shape to run like that reliably, the main spring may need replaced to ensure that it runs like it should. It has a plate to mount a face to and it also has hands. But no face.
I'm also just kind of curious about how much this movement might be worth as well, it could persuade me a lot of this movement where reasonably valuable, however I do not know anything about how much movements bring, and it would not surprise me if it was only worth little more than it's weight in scrap.


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Old Westclox alarm clocks are certainly interesting to collect. I've got a Lasalle model 61-F art deco style in a Dura case. And a Baby Ben Style 1 with a black luminous dial. Both clatter along and keep passable time.

I think your best hope for selling is to find someone looking to restore one of those clocks. Either Ebay or the NAWCC if you are a member.


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

I use my 1924 white faced style 1 every day. It ticks very loudly like you said, and without a second hand I do not notice any time gain or loss. It used to loose a little time, but a bump on the regulated fixed that. Mine needs to be cleaned something awful though, and like I've said several times, I do not know if any place local that would do a service on it, and I am way too much of a boon to the clock world to attempt a cleaning on it. I still want to make this clock tick until the spring runs out, but it seems to stop consistently roughly 2 hours off of a fully wound spring, I have not tested beyond that yet, I'm trying to figure out why it stops in that place every time. Any ideas?


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Unless the hands are hanging up I would suspect the spring is hanging. From what you said it appears bent and kinked. The coils are probably not sliding as they should and energy is not being transmitted to the movement.


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

Well I found the problem after reading what you said. The hands were clear, but the spring had a bit of a flat spot where the energy was not transmitting correctly. I had piled the main spring a while ago when this problem first started to develop. After several tests I found the exact location of the flat spot. I then took and simply added a slight bend in the proper direction. Tonight it had not completely solved the problem, however I barely touched the barrel for the main spring and it went back to ticking. I may have to put a hair more of a bend in it, but it seems to of cleared the problem in that area, I am unsure if there are any other spots like that, but I'm working on it, and it seems to be getting more reliable about running. As far as accuracy is concerned, I believe it to be within range of the regulator, however I have not tested it recently


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

I meant oiled, not pile d. Stupid autocorrect


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

Hey John I just wanted to say thanks for all of the help you have given me, and I will be making a face for it soon in machine shop, I was thinking about what kind of face to make, any ideas. We have a 3 axis cnc mill, so my options are pretty wide open. I wish I could get the origional face, but that was long gone by the time I got a hold of the movement


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Sounds like a fun project. Post some pictures as it progresses.


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

Well, as everything seems to go, times and interest change. I thought I might try to make something of this old movement, but it just does not seem to be worth the hassle. Never could get the clock to run like it should, so I never made a face or a case for it. Now it has sat in my closet for something like a year. My uncle gave me several big and baby ben alarm clocks. I have them all running, and keeping time last I checked. I managed to pick up a 1923 baby ben with a white face, and it had a beautiful case on it. It had a broken mainspring, so I had to take the old one and re-arch and drill a new hole in it. Now it runs just as well as the big ben.


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Good to read those Bens are running again. Post a group picture when you get a chance.


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

There is the family photo, of course I need to take a new one because the style one baby ben is not in the main photo. Also figured I would post a picture of the spring arching operation because that was kind of some blacksmith work


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

Nice collection you have.


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## jshields2025 (Sep 21, 2017)

Most of them are not pristine, but the 1949 baby ben has some family history behind it, and it is the one that I use most of the time. Actually something just went wrong with the style 1 baby ben. I think it is the ratchet paw for the mainspring. I can wind it up as many turns as I want, but it does not ratchet as it should, and will unwind itself. I think that the paw has been bent away from it's ratchet wheel, because there is no rattling of broken parts inside. I have not had time to take it back apart and inspect it, but that is my guess. I have had some troubles with my late '40s big ben. I notice that it does not seem like the bell will go back on far enough, so the hammer does not hit the bell. Not sure what is going on there, but I know for a fact that is wrong, but there is no way that they have been mis-assembled as every hole lined up perfectly.


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