# Thailand vs Malaysian vs Japan made G-Shock. What's the deal?



## chetztro

I only have one G-Shock made in Japan and for the last 10 years it never gave me any trouble whatsoever except for battery replacing. 

So now...thanks to all of you here I decided to buy another G-Shock. 
The thing is most G-shock models are currently made in either Thailand or Malaysia instead of Japan. 

Is there anything I should be warry about buying G-shock that aren't made in Japan? Or are they all as reliable as hell as always? :-s

PS: HAven't heard of any Chinese made G-shock currently but with so many fake G's from China, I guess chinese made G's are :rodekaart


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## sl8763

There's no appreciable difference in quality among G-Shocks made in Japan vs. Thailand or Malaysia or elsewhere. In a lot of cases you won't even have a choice, as certain models are only produced at certain locations. This question has come up before in the past and our combined experience has been positive with all the Casio production locations, so don't worry about that.


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## Sedi

chetztro said:


> PS: HAven't heard of any Chinese made G-shock currently but with so many fake G's from China, I guess chinese made G's are :rodekaart


Hi,

















every bit as good as my other Gs - but I've read the factory is in Taiwan. So no fear of Chinese G-Shocks:-!.

Greetings, Sedi


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## BenL

Welcome to the forum.

I haven't had any problems with my G-Shocks made in China/Indonesia/Thailand/etc.

That said, however, I do have (maybe psychological) favorable experiences with the ones made in Japan.


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## DragonJade

Welcome to the forum. This has been a much discussed topic. Do a search and you will see many threads about this already.


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## TheHobbit

Just to give you an overview:

Basically G-Shocks are made in:
Japan, Japan H, Japan M, Japan Y, Japan T, Japan K
Thailand Y, Thailand H
China Y
Korea C, Korea T
Malaysia, Malaysia Y
The letter after the country name may indicate different factory.
Then there those Japan Y movement assembled in Thailand or Malaysia.
Some buckles are made in Indonesia.
Lastly there is Taiwan (but no Made in Taiwan)


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## lawrie124

TheHobbit said:


> Just to give you an overview:
> 
> Basically G-Shocks are made in:
> Japan, Japan H, Japan M, Japan Y, Japan T, Japan K
> Thailand Y, Thailand H
> China Y
> Korea C, Korea T
> Malaysia, Malaysia Y
> The letter after the country name may indicate different factory.
> Then there those Japan Y movement assembled in Thailand or Malaysia.
> Some buckles are made in Indonesia.
> Lastly there is Taiwan (but no Made in Taiwan)


What are the models in the current range that are made and assembled in Japan, this question go out to everyone even though I used your quote Hobbit. ;-)


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## TheHobbit

I can only answer from what I know:

Frogman
BAPE
G-5600 (although not all I believe)
Early Eric Haze Collaboration models
Vintage models: DW-5000, DW-5200..... etc......
Early Master of G

I can give rough timeline when these came out, but it is based on my collection:
Japan 1996, Japan H 1984, Japan M 1994, Japan Y 1997, Japan T 1994, Japan K 1998
Thailand Y 1996, Thailand H 2005
China Y 1996
Korea C 1995, Korea T 1993, Korea Y 1998
Malaysia 1995, Malaysia Y 2001


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## lawrie124

TheHobbit said:


> I can only answer from what I know:
> 
> Frogman
> BAPE
> G-5600 (although not all I believe)
> Early Eric Haze Collaboration models
> Vintage models: DW-5000, DW-5200..... etc......
> Early Master of G
> 
> I can give rough timeline when these came out, but it is based on my collection:
> Japan 1996, Japan H 1984, Japan M 1994, Japan Y 1997, Japan T 1994, Japan K 1998
> Thailand Y 1996, Thailand H 2005
> China Y 1996
> Korea C 1995, Korea T 1993, Korea Y 1998
> Malaysia 1995, Malaysia Y 2001


Thanks for going through the effort to find out Hobbit. :thanks


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## TheHobbit

no problem, we learn together.


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## TOPquark

I've got several case reports from a chinese forum. If you live in an extremely cold region like somewhere near the boarder of Russia and if the watch was made from a more humid environment such as Malaysia or Thailand, the display may turn foggy during the winter due to the moisture enclosed inside the case while manufacturing.

It's not a problem of low quality though. The module is doing just fine, tough as it should be. But for people from those region, they may have their concerns. (They said it could be as cold as -40 degree Celsius in the mid winter.)

So far Japan and Korea made Gs do not seem to have the same problem.


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## bluegum

Hmmm, I would have thought the Thai and Malay ones would be made in an airconditioned facility.

I think the Japanese ones are better quality, but mainly because they're the more expensive models like MR-G's, frogs and silencers which are made to a higher standard because of their target market.


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## sml

chetztro said:


> Is there anything I should be warry about buying G-shock that aren't made in Japan? Or are they all as reliable as hell as always? :-s


No need to buy Gs from Japan thinking the quality is better than say Thailand Gs.

Rumour has it, that Casio's manufacturing facilities & infrastructure in Thailand is state of the art & more modern compared to their facilities in Japan which are a few years older.

I just made up that rumour above but who knows. From my recollection on WUS, nobody has reported any differences between the manufacturing locations of Gs.


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## sml

******* said:


> Hmmm, I would have thought the Thai and Malay ones would be made in an airconditioned facility.
> 
> I think the Japanese ones are better quality, but mainly because they're the more expensive models like MR-G's, frogs and silencers which are made to a higher standard because of their target market.


I feel like being sarcastic here, but I really can't imagine an international electronics company making products in a high humidity climate. I really don't think they would be that silly. It is not exactly like air-conditioning is a huge technological leap or expense. Even many hawker centres have air-con!

Which part of the watch do you think is higher quality with the Japanese made models?


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## TOPquark

sml said:


> I feel like being sarcastic here, but I really can't imagine an international electronics company making products in a high humidity climate. I really don't think they would be that silly. It is not exactly like air-conditioning is a huge technological leap or expense. Even many hawker centres have air-con!
> 
> Which part of the watch do you think is higher quality with the Japanese made models?


But we've got 4 or 5 forum members reporting that already. Especially from members from north-eastern china close to the boarder of Russia.

Even with air-conditioning on, 24 hrs a day, the humidity in, say, taiwan is much much higher than Tokyo. You do feel the difference strongly. 
However I don't think the quality's different.(If it's the same model) A couple of months ago we got reply from the casio official that the so call ''chinese made'' Gs are actually ''chinese assembled'' only. All modules are manufactured in Japan. No matter it's Malaysia, Korea or Indonesia on the back case.


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## BenL

TheHobbit said:


> no problem, we learn together.


:-!


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## DragonJade

sml said:


> Even many hawker centres have air-con!


I've got to find me some new hawker centres!


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## tribe125

From a G-Shock manual -

*The inside surface of the watch glass may fog when the watch is exposed to a sudden drop in temperature. No problem is indicated if the fogging clears up relatively quickly.*


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## Bogeyman

sml said:


> Rumour has it, that Casio's manufacturing facilities & infrastructure in Thailand is state of the art & more modern compared to their facilities in Japan which are a few years older.


At the risk of sounding sacrilegeous, I'd say this is somewhat plausible.

Anyway, my current Gs are all non-Japan made, and I notice no appreciable difference in build quality from my very first G which was made in Japan. I'd bring them into the steam room occasionally, and the glass would fog up on the outside with no effect on the internals. And just last weekend, it was a hot summer day when I dipped my G-9100 into a drum containing ice water. No condensation on the inside.


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## dctokyo

For someone that has lived here in Japan for over 20 years.
The Japanese ones that are made for Japan only are better quality than the export ones. That goes for over 90% of all exports of other items also.

I will always buy the domestic one over an export model of any electrics item.

There are so many computers, watches, camera's and cars that are made only for Japan, Japan saves the best for Japan. :-d


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## Seamaster73

chetztro said:


> Thailand vs Malaysian vs Japan made G-Shock. What's the deal?


The "deal" is that it doesn't matter where the machine that spat out your watch happens to be located.


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## Sedi

Hi,
it seems that limited models like the FIFA models for example are made in Japan too:








in the upper right corner 'Japan M'

Greetings, Sedi


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## TOPquark

Bogeyman said:


> Anyway, my current Gs are all non-Japan made, and I notice no appreciable difference in build quality from my very first G which was made in Japan. I'd bring them into the steam room occasionally, and the glass would fog up on the outside with no effect on the internals. And just last weekend, it was a hot summer day when I dipped my G-9100 into a drum containing ice water. No condensation on the inside.


Well, let me restate what I was trying to say. I was talking about some extreme temperature as cold as -40 degree while the icy water cannot be lower than 0 degree. It was only in such a crazy environment you get condensation inside your G. (Not because of leakage but due to the infinitesimal amount of moisture inside the tiny watch case. That's why it takes such a low temperature. You can't avoid that. There's bound to be moisture. It's only a matter of degree.)

In fact that's no big deal because casio has never gauranteed its product can function at -40 degree. And usually it doesn't. The liquid crystal has frozen long before that. But if you are going to Siberia you should better think twice before deciding which watch you are going to bring.


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## sgtslice

dctokyo said:


> For someone that has lived here in Japan for over 20 years.
> The Japanese ones that are made for Japan only are better quality than the export ones. That goes for over 90% of all exports of other items also.
> 
> I will always buy the domestic one over an export model of any electrics item.
> 
> There are so many computers, watches, camera's and cars that are made only for Japan, Japan saves the best for Japan. :-d


Unbelievable!:-s Exports should have good or better quality if the business is to grow and be recognized around the world! What's the point of exporting marginal quality products if it would destroy a manufacturer's or brandname's reputation?:think:


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## kiwidj

Seamaster73 said:


> The "deal" is that it doesn't matter where the machine that spat out your watch happens to be located.


:-!


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## Queen6

dctokyo said:


> For someone that has lived here in Japan for over 20 years.
> The Japanese ones that are made for Japan only are better quality than the export ones. That goes for over 90% of all exports of other items also.
> 
> I will always buy the domestic one over an export model of any electrics item.
> 
> There are so many computers, watches, camera's and cars that are made only for Japan, Japan saves the best for Japan. :-d


+1 This is my understanding of the Japanese culture as well, and I saw it to some extent when I lived in China.

A better way to sum it up is: The quality of the products outsourced is not lacking in any shape or form, just the domestic market goods are better.

Q-6


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## bluegum

sml said:


> Which part of the watch do you think is higher quality with the Japanese made models?


They have a more 'solid' feel and just have the look of something that has been made to a higher quality control. It's a bit like comparing Toyota to a Lexus; both good cars, but the Lexus has that higher quality finishing and nothing seems cheap or flimsy.

The one I had was a Japan only market model so what Dctokyo says seems true from my minimal experience. You also see it in the different packaging they do for the Japan models as well.


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## gaijin

dctokyo said:


> For someone that has lived here in Japan for over 20 years.
> The Japanese ones that are made for Japan only are better quality than the export ones. That goes for over 90% of all exports of other items also.
> 
> I will always buy the domestic one over an export model of any electrics item.
> 
> There are so many computers, watches, camera's and cars that are made only for Japan, Japan saves the best for Japan. :-d


Absolutely right :-!

Given the choice, I will always buy the Japan version ;-)


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## Lexxorcist

If G-Shocks made for Japan are better than those made for anywhere else, what's the actual difference? Different machines making them; different materials; different components in the modules or do they have them polished by Geishas before packing them? :-s


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## BenL

sml said:


> Even many hawker centres have air-con!


I wish the Newton Circus in Singapore had air-conditioning! Great food, but you sweat like a pig! ;-):-d


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## BenL

kiwidj said:


> :-!


There is probably some truth to that.


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## G-shock1968

My DW6900 was made in china.


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## dctokyo

Lexxorcist said:


> If G-Shocks made for Japan are better than those made for anywhere else, what's the actual difference? Different machines making them; different materials; different components in the modules or do they have them polished by Geishas before packing them? :-s


I would say different grade of materials; different grade of components.

I worked for the largest Tennis string maker in the world here in Japan many years ago and our domestic model was build with different grade of materials over our export model. (They both had the same name but not the same quality)



> Unbelievable!:-s Exports should have good or better quality if the business is to grow and be recognized around the world! What's the point of exporting marginal quality products if it would destroy a manufacturer's or brand name's reputation?:think:


The point is the company is not going to tell you that the export is made a little different.

The bottom line is that watches made by "Casio" a Japanese company are all very good quality. So enjoy your watch, wherever it is made.:-!


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## TheHobbit

For those who have the G-Shock 25th Anniversary magazine, look at pages 26 to 29. There are pictures of the Casio factory in Thailand. Looks pretty decent to me. My take on this is that it does not matter where the watches are produced, as long they meet the QC set by Casio, it is fine by me. 

My grail watch, the DW-5025SP is made in Thailand. Is it worst then say the G-5600 that is made in Japan? G-5600 are made in Japan and seems to have problems with the modules, so does that say it is not as good? I am sure if the G-5600 were not made in Japan, there will be a flurry of comments about the poor quality of Casio G-Shocks.


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## sl8763

dctokyo said:


> I would say different grade of materials; different grade of components.
> 
> The point is the company is not going to tell you that the export is made a little different.


Ok, just to be clear - it seems like there might be two different debates going on here.

Are you saying that the G-Shock watches that are produced ONLY for the Japan market, with no export versions, are typically fancier, high-end models and that's why they have a better grade of materials/components? If so, I have no problem believing that. I guess a good analogy would be all the great cellphone models that are Asia-only and not released in the United States. I think a lot of companies produce nice things that are only for their domestic market.

But if you are saying that a Japan-produced G-Shock versus a foreign-produced G-Shock of the exact same watch model and module is somehow better, then that is a more interesting point of view and I would be curious what exactly the differences are in the materials/components. For example the recent thread about the MTG1500-1A and the MTG1500-1AJF. I would expect these watches to be 100% identical in construction and materials.


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## tiger2

both of dctokyo and TheHobbit says are true .
if a watch (ex:dw-8200,GW-9200) has different parts(backcase printed "frog"&"shock resisten","squawl"&"dragon") , i will choose the Japan version . if i could choose .
if a watch (ex:dw-5600ms,MR-G) only has one type , sell for Japan and other place .
they are the same no mater what place they sold .


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## tiger2

Sedi said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> every bit as good as my other Gs - but I've read the factory is in Taiwan. So no fear of Chinese G-Shocks:-!.
> 
> Greetings, Sedi


As i know , CASIO purchased a watch-case manufacturing factory in Taiwan from Bulova in 1974 and made his first timepieces-Casiotron in 1974 Nov .


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## TheHobbit

tiger2 said:


> As i know , CASIO purchased a watch-case manufacturing factory in Taiwan from Bulova in 1974 and made his first timepieces-Casiotron in 1974 Nov .


Yeah the factory is in Taoyuan (where the international airport is).


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## dirkdiggler

Some of you could benefit by a trip to Japan or by reading about Japan. It is very possible that G-Shocks made in Japan are superior to G-Shocks made outside of Japan.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, materials and machinery are not the key. People and processes are the key.

Japan is the second-largest single nation economy in world history. This is not due to luck, coincidence or chance. The Japanese earned it. It doesn't rain money in Japan (or anywhere else). The Japanese earned their success.

The Japanese value education, they value hard work and they value quality. Go ahead and review comparative education research done by academics to see how Japanese educational achievement compares to other nations. Go ahead and review comparative management research done by academics to see how the Japanese work ethic compares to other nations. Go ahead and review comparative manufacturing research done by academics to see how Japanese manufacturing quality compares to other nations.

The Japanese corporate environment is more committed to quality than any other nation. If you want to understand the origins of this, then enter the search phrase *Deming* into Google (or any other search engine).

Just because the quality of G-Shocks made outside of Japan is good does not mean that G-Shocks made in Japan are not superior. It is very possible G-Shocks made in Japan are superior. The key is not materials nor machinery. The key is the people implementing and monitoring all aspects of the manufacturing processes.

In other words, the key is culture. Japanese corporations demand quality from their workers, and Japanese consumers demand quality from corporations. For those of you who have never been to Japan, it may be difficult to fully comprehend what true product quality and true service quality really are.


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## Bogeyman

For the most part, Japan-made good does seem to inspire more confidence than their counterparts manufactured overseas. But it's not always so, as practical experience occasionally shows. 

Our Japan-made Panasonic PV-GS65 3CCD video camera was bought brand new, and in just two months the LCD screen went completely blank and unusable. Took it to an authorized service center and found that the screen needed to be replaced. Fortunately it was covered under warranty. 

By comparison, my father-in-law's Panasonic PV-GS85 which was made in Indonesia suffered no problems whatsoever throughout the warranty period.


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## dctokyo

> Are you saying that the G-Shock watches that are produced ONLY for the Japan market, with no export versions, are typically fancier, high-end models and that's why they have a better grade of materials/components?


 Yes



> But if you are saying that a Japan-produced G-Shock versus a foreign-produced G-Shock of the exact same watch model and module is somehow better, then that is a more interesting point of view and I would be curious what exactly the differences are in the materials/components.


 Yes to this also. As dirkdiggler mention, "People and processes are the key" and higher standards.

If you go to a shop in Akiba, you can find the export and domestic TV's sitting side by side, I have a friend who owns a shop, all you need to do is open both of the cases and you will see some different components used.

Also the price of the export is always way cheaper....... but then maybe we are getting ripoff on the prices here for the domestic goods :-x

The domestic products are just held up to higher standards than the normal QC set by Casio. So Don't worry! A Casio made anywhere is a great watch.


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## dctokyo

> Rumor has it, that Casio's manufacturing facilities & infrastructure in Thailand is state of the art & more modern compared to their facilities in Japan which are a few years older.


Yep, as you mention it is a Rumor

Most company's here always pass on their old machines to their overseas facilities when they upgrade.

I worked in the manufacturing field here or over 14 years and I have a lot of friends also in manufacturing.:-x


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## bluegum

I guess one thing that can also determine differences in local and export quality are the local government regulations. If the local regs are much more stringent and/or require companies to offer extensive waranties for example, then there may well be a duopoly of QC culture.


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## TheHobbit

I have to agree that the people do make the difference. Passion, pride counts for a lot.


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## tribe125

dirkdiggler said:


> Japanese corporations demand quality from their workers


They do - wherever those workers might be.

I'm reminded of the general astonishment in Britain following the opening of a Nissan plant in Sunderland. After a couple of years, internal audits showed that the quality coming out of Sunderland was higher than the quality coming out of Japan.

The Japanese are rightly praised for their commitment to quality, but there is no reason to think that they confine their commitment to home. With no disrespect to the people of Sunderland, if Japanese companies can ensure top quality in the north-east of England, they can do the same in Thailand.


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## dctokyo

******* said:


> I guess one thing that can also determine differences in local and export quality are the local government regulations. If the local regs are much more stringent and/or require companies to offer extensive waranties for example, then there may well be a duopoly of QC culture.


You do know that Australia export beef to Japan is better than local beef there. :-d


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## dctokyo

dirkdiggler said:


> some of you could benefit by a trip to japan or by reading about japan. It is very possible that g-shocks made in japan are superior to g-shocks made outside of japan.
> 
> At the risk of pointing out the obvious, materials and machinery are not the key. People and processes are the key.
> 
> Japan is the second-largest single nation economy in world history. This is not due to luck, coincidence or chance. The japanese earned it. It doesn't rain money in japan (or anywhere else). The japanese earned their success.
> 
> The japanese value education, they value hard work and they value quality. Go ahead and review comparative education research done by academics to see how japanese educational achievement compares to other nations. Go ahead and review comparative management research done by academics to see how the japanese work ethic compares to other nations. Go ahead and review comparative manufacturing research done by academics to see how japanese manufacturing quality compares to other nations.
> 
> The japanese corporate environment is more committed to quality than any other nation. If you want to understand the origins of this, then enter the search phrase *deming* into google (or any other search engine).
> 
> Just because the quality of g-shocks made outside of japan is good does not mean that g-shocks made in japan are not superior. It is very possible g-shocks made in japan are superior. The key is not materials nor machinery. The key is the people implementing and monitoring all aspects of the manufacturing processes.
> 
> In other words, the key is culture. Japanese corporations demand quality from their workers, and japanese consumers demand quality from corporations. For those of you who have never been to japan, it may be difficult to fully comprehend what true product quality and true service quality really are.


+1 :-!


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## bluegum

dctokyo said:


> You do know that Australia export beef to Japan is better than local beef there. :-d


Yeah...

...cause they're the only ones who can afford it. And we don't have Mad Cow apparently, but I think our politicians provide clear evidence to the contrary. ;-)


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## Lexxorcist

Nothing conclusive then? If it's parts/materials I don't see any difference. Japanese resin rots just like the rest, and the modules etc. seem identical. If it's the Japanese culture, the entire company is Japanese wherever it's based. 

sl8763, you may be right, I assumed the question is whether there's a difference between a given G-Shock made in Japan, and one made anywhere else.

I have a little insight into the Japanese having trained among them for several years. They do have very high standards, but they expect those they work with to meet those standards too. That's certainly been my experience.

I don't see any difference at all between my Japan G-Shocks and their China and Thailand counterparts, and if no differences are in any way apparant - I don't see how it's worth paying more for. Before I pay extra for seemingly identical items, I need more than speculation and very limited personal experiences.


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## sml

Lexxorcist said:


> I need more than speculation


Exactly .. I am still waiting for some solid facts to be presented.

From my quick read of this thread, the best objective evidence that we have is:

"They have a more 'solid' feel"

??:-s


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## tribe125

sml said:


> Exactly .. I am still waiting for some solid facts to be presented.


There aren't any, as you well know. 

The subject probably comes up four or five times a year, and the general consensus is always 'no difference'. A complicating factor is that the threads sometimes carry two quite different propositions:

1) That models made exclusively in Japan are often 'better'.
2) That examples of models made in a number of locations are 'better' if made in Japan.

And of course 1) can be true and 2) can be false.

1) Screwbacks have 'a more solid feel' and screwbacks are made in Japan. True.
2) DW-XXX's made in Japan have a 'more solid feel' than DW-XXX's made in Thailand. Almost certainly false.


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## GMT-II

Made in Japan is just one of 2 reasons to jerk up the price and rib u off badly without any product quality reason. Another good reason is Japanese worker earns more.... ;-) And the cost is add up to yr product.

Do u know those QC personnel in Malaysia or Thailand or China are also Japanese sent from Japan? They demand nothing less from what u they have been doing in Japan Casio factory too!


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## tribe125

Slightly away from the main topic - but I have heard it said that one reason for companies locating outside Japan is to avoid environmental regulation...


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## GMT-II

tribe125 said:


> Slightly away from the main topic - but I have heard it said that one reason for companies locating outside Japan is to avoid environmental regulation...


The most important reason why companies allocated outside Japan is to make their product affordable without compromising quality.

Except their high end range which people still pay ridiculous amount mostly for high Japanese worker wages and high expenses in Japan....


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## Mitch100

Well nearly all my 'G' Shocks are made in Japan with just a few either made in Thailand or with Japanese movement and cased in Thailand.

I have only had a problem with one watch when the bezel just fell off for no good reason.

That watch was made in ....................................... JAPAN.




























https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=86886

Mitch


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## dirkdiggler

tribe125 said:


> They do - wherever those workers might be.


True.



> The Japanese are rightly praised for their commitment to quality, but there is no reason to think that they confine their commitment to home. With no disrespect to the people of Sunderland, if Japanese companies can ensure top quality in the north-east of England, they can do the same in Thailand.


False, for two reasons. First, the Japanese culture is more quality-focused than non-Japanese cultures. It is easier to hire, train and monitor people that were born and raised in a quality-obsessed culture than those who were not born and raised in such a culture. Second, as has been pointed out repeatedly, products made for the Japanese domestic market by Japanese corporations are often made to higher standards than products intended for markets outside of Japan made by the same Japanese corporations. Japanese consumers demand higher product quality and higher service quality than non-Japanese consumers.

Therefore, it is very possible that G-Shocks made in Japan are superior to G-Shocks made outside of Japan. Just because the quality of G-Shocks made outside of Japan is good does not mean that G-Shocks made in Japan are not superior.


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## tribe125

dirkdiggler said:


> It is easier to hire, train and monitor people that were born and raised in a quality-obsessed culture than those who were not born and raised in such a culture.


That's why the Sunderland experience was so remarkable. At the time, the British car industry was notorious for its poor quality. The Sunderland workers were actually drawn from the declining coal-mining and shipbuilding industries, but the sight of them singing the Nissan company song at the start of the day 
was remarkable. Nissan won them over completely and the result was Japan-beating quality. Completely unexpected - but not by Nissan, presumably.


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## TheHobbit

Interesting thread this. For those with the GW-200GM frogman (Gold Defender), have a close look at your bezel. If it is like mine, you will find that there are parts that were not painted/coated, especially around the buttons.


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## TheHobbit

tribe125 said:


> There aren't any, as you well know.
> 
> The subject probably comes up four or five times a year, and the general consensus is always 'no difference'. A complicating factor is that the threads sometimes carry two quite different propositions:
> 
> 1) That models made exclusively in Japan are often 'better'.
> 2) That examples of models made in a number of locations are 'better' if made in Japan.
> 
> And of course 1) can be true and 2) can be false.
> 
> 1) Screwbacks have 'a more solid feel' and screwbacks are made in Japan. True.
> 2) DW-XXX's made in Japan have a 'more solid feel' than DW-XXX's made in Thailand. Almost certainly false.


Tribe,

As far as I can see, other than then Frogman, all the 25th Anniversary screwback are made in Thailand.


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## tribe125

TheHobbit said:


> As far as I can see, other than then Frogman, all the 25th Anniversary screwback are made in Thailand.


Thanks for the correction. I did briefly wonder about that. ;-)


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## Queen6

dirkdiggler said:


> Some of you could benefit by a trip to Japan or by reading about Japan. It is very possible that G-Shocks made in Japan are superior to G-Shocks made outside of Japan.
> 
> At the risk of pointing out the obvious, materials and machinery are not the key. People and processes are the key.
> 
> Japan is the second-largest single nation economy in world history. This is not due to luck, coincidence or chance. The Japanese earned it. It doesn't rain money in Japan (or anywhere else). The Japanese earned their success.
> 
> The Japanese value education, they value hard work and they value quality. Go ahead and review comparative education research done by academics to see how Japanese educational achievement compares to other nations. Go ahead and review comparative management research done by academics to see how the Japanese work ethic compares to other nations. Go ahead and review comparative manufacturing research done by academics to see how Japanese manufacturing quality compares to other nations.
> 
> The Japanese corporate environment is more committed to quality than any other nation. If you want to understand the origins of this, then enter the search phrase *Deming* into Google (or any other search engine).
> 
> Just because the quality of G-Shocks made outside of Japan is good does not mean that G-Shocks made in Japan are not superior. It is very possible G-Shocks made in Japan are superior. The key is not materials nor machinery. The key is the people implementing and monitoring all aspects of the manufacturing processes.
> 
> In other words, the key is culture. Japanese corporations demand quality from their workers, and Japanese consumers demand quality from corporations. For those of you who have never been to Japan, it may be difficult to fully comprehend what true product quality and true service quality really are.


+2, I dont need to add anything, this is 100% accurate


----------



## Lexxorcist

We're not talking about fine craftsmanship here, we're talking about machine made watches, and I honestly don't see how much difference the nationality of the factory staff is going to make. I'd rather pay an unskilled person to man a checkout than the worlds best accountant and mathmatician. He or she would just want paying more for the same routine job.

Maybe I'm wrong to see it this way, but I've yet to be shown any evidence that Japan made watches *are* any better than their counterparts from China and Thailand etc. I see the Japanese's quality orientated cutlure as being an over-qualification here, making little if any difference.

Also, it's the Japanese setting the standards, not the Chinese or Thais. I can only imagine what would happen if they told the Japanese they're sorry about their substandard work but it's the best they can do. I envision a scene from Kill Bill. :-d


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## bluegum

As I said before, you tend to pay a lot more for Japanese models because they usually the 'luxury' models like the Frog, Silencer, MTG and MRG; I'm sure you're getting higher quality _mainly_ because of that. Look at the Frog's casing and parts for example. It's like Seiko producing some lines in Japan which are typically considered their higher range models. They're built to higher specs and perhaps lower error ranges because those models are aimed at a more expensive market.

This argument is a little moot I think; who here wouldn't buy non-Japanese models because of the belief they're inferior? Not me...I've never had an issue with a G from any country and you'd miss out on the majority of models to choose from. I can only think of one notable forum member who fits that category. ;-) :-x


----------



## GMT-II

dirkdiggler said:


> Some of you could benefit by a trip to Japan or by reading about Japan. It is very possible that G-Shocks made in Japan are superior to G-Shocks made outside of Japan.
> 
> At the risk of pointing out the obvious, materials and machinery are not the key. People and processes are the key.
> 
> Japan is the second-largest single nation economy in world history. This is not due to luck, coincidence or chance. The Japanese earned it. It doesn't rain money in Japan (or anywhere else). The Japanese earned their success.
> 
> The Japanese value education, they value hard work and they value quality. Go ahead and review comparative education research done by academics to see how Japanese educational achievement compares to other nations. Go ahead and review comparative management research done by academics to see how the Japanese work ethic compares to other nations. Go ahead and review comparative manufacturing research done by academics to see how Japanese manufacturing quality compares to other nations.
> 
> The Japanese corporate environment is more committed to quality than any other nation. If you want to understand the origins of this, then enter the search phrase *Deming* into Google (or any other search engine).
> 
> Just because the quality of G-Shocks made outside of Japan is good does not mean that G-Shocks made in Japan are not superior. It is very possible G-Shocks made in Japan are superior. The key is not materials nor machinery. The key is the people implementing and monitoring all aspects of the manufacturing processes.
> 
> In other words, the key is culture. Japanese corporations demand quality from their workers, and Japanese consumers demand quality from corporations. For those of you who have never been to Japan, it may be difficult to fully comprehend what true product quality and true service quality really are.


Are u trying to say casio made in Thailand or China are not under Casio Japan coporations???

Casio watch in Thailand or China equally goes thru the same QC, requirement as what their counter part in japan do. And as I mention, their QC leader are from Japan too. I been to Shimano factory, Mitsuibishi overseas. All their operating style is the same. I don't see a respectable company like Casio operate themselves differently from the few household Japanese company I mention???


----------



## dctokyo

tribe125 said:


> They do - wherever those workers might be.
> 
> I'm reminded of the general astonishment in Britain following the opening of a Nissan plant in Sunderland. After a couple of years, internal audits showed that the quality coming out of Sunderland was higher than the quality coming out of Japan.
> 
> The Japanese are rightly praised for their commitment to quality, but there is no reason to think that they confine their commitment to home. With no disrespect to the people of Sunderland, if Japanese companies can ensure top quality in the north-east of England, they can do the same in Thailand.


Go watch the movie "Gung-Ho" about a Japanese company taking over a US car plant. great humor in that movie.


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## sonoronos

TOPquark said:


> Even with air-conditioning on, 24 hrs a day, the humidity in, say, taiwan is much much higher than Tokyo. You do feel the difference strongly.


In most temperature and humidity controlled environments I have seen, it doesn't matter where you are physically. For example, when we set up production lines in the US, you set the humidity to say, 10%, and it's 10% no matter what. Same thing in Taiwan. Set the production floor humidity to 10% and it's 10% no matter what...


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## Agil

This discussion is more apropriate for some other forum where people looks for exclusivity where there is no one. It is against the soul and meaning of G-shocks. Same stupid logic like putting diamonds on G.

Every G has its own beauty, and all 200 WR, shock protected....thats enough


However, everone, especcialy Japan G lovers can customize ( modify) his G by replacing the backplate with made in japan one. <|


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## teaman2004

LOL. This is a cool idea. Actually dont think Japan goods are superior to others, earth quake proves that we are only human. Japan nuclear mystery is broken. Funny hell country.


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## MRG-1000

lawrie124 said:


> What are the models in the current range that are made and assembled in Japan, this question go out to everyone even though I used your quote Hobbit. ;-)


At least the GW-5000 and GWF-1000 as well as the MRG lineup.


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## MRG-1000

TheHobbit said:


> As far as I can see, other than then Frogman, all the 25th Anniversary screwback are made in Thailand.


And they (DW-5000SL and DW-5025D) don't really feel less solid compared with the Japan-made GW-5000. The primary difference of the screwback's appearance is stamped vs. laser-etched lettering, although the GW-M5600 series and GW-9110 etched casebacks prove that this can be done properly in Thailand as well. The GW-5000's softer resin band is an aspect of the different model design, not an indication of higher quality materials being used. Other JDM models use the standard resin as well.

That said, I do sentimentally value a "Made in Japan" model higher than one made elsewhere. It's part of the heritage.


----------



## Reza.Casio

TheHobbit said:


> Just to give you an overview:
> 
> Basically G-Shocks are made in:
> Japan, Japan H, Japan M, Japan Y, Japan T, Japan K
> Thailand Y, Thailand H
> China Y
> Korea C, Korea T
> Malaysia, Malaysia Y
> The letter after the country name may indicate different factory.
> Then there those Japan Y movement assembled in Thailand or Malaysia.
> Some buckles are made in Indonesia.
> Lastly there is Taiwan (but no Made in Taiwan)


I'm a G-SHOCK Mania.
Nice info, thanks


----------



## entropy96

TheHobbit said:


> Just to give you an overview:
> 
> Basically G-Shocks are made in:
> Japan, Japan H, Japan M, Japan Y, Japan T, Japan K
> Thailand Y, Thailand H
> China Y
> Korea C, Korea T
> Malaysia, Malaysia Y
> The letter after the country name may indicate different factory.
> Then there those Japan Y movement assembled in Thailand or Malaysia.
> Some buckles are made in Indonesia.
> Lastly there is Taiwan (but no Made in Taiwan)


You forgot to add China DH.


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## ggyy1276

entropy96 said:


> You forgot to add China DH.


There was no China DH 3 years ago.


----------



## entropy96

teaman2004 said:


> LOL. This is a cool idea. Actually dont think Japan goods are superior to others, earth quake proves that we are only human. Japan nuclear mystery is broken. Funny hell country.


dirkdiggler's post is true though.

Japanese standard of ethics and quality is very high compared to other countries.
I think it is innate in their culture.


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## fonklover

if you think in stereotypes you may think, made in japan must be better than the other. but let me compare this with the sneaker scene, as i am a sneaker fanatic. there is well known company that produces sneakers in china, in uk and even in usa. recently i had bad bad bad experiences with shoes made in uk, and i heard from dealers who had to send back whole sets of shoes, cause the quality was more like 2nd choice. the materials used however seem to be great quality. but the ones made in china are much better from handycraft, but the materials used are not the best (leather less soft etc). why is that? of course because all the sneaker companys moved their facilities to asia many years ago, and that is where is the knowledge and the experience of manufacturing all kind of shoes. with the facilities the knowledge has moved too. and i guess its the same with watches. that in these countries like thailand/china they must have a great knowledge and experience cause there it is, where most of the watches are made, and companys can easly find professional experienced workers.


----------



## entropy96

fonklover said:


> if you think in stereotypes you may think, made in japan must be better than the other. but let me compare this with the sneaker scene, as i am a sneaker fanatic. there is well known company that produces sneakers in china, in uk and even in usa. recently i had bad bad bad experiences with shoes made in uk, and i heard from dealers who had to send back whole sets of shoes, cause the quality was more like 2nd choice. the materials used however seem to be great quality. but the ones made in china are much better from handycraft, but the materials used are not the best (leather less soft etc). why is that? of course because all the sneaker companys moved their facilities to asia many years ago, and that is where is the knowledge and the experience of manufacturing all kind of shoes. with the facilities the knowledge has moved too. and i guess its the same with watches. that in these countries like thailand/china they must have a great knowledge and experience cause there it is, where most of the watches are made, and companys can easly find professional experienced workers.


Except we're not talking about shoes here.

UK, US, China, Thailand, Malaysia is not Japan.

Japan-made and Swiss-made watches are generally incomparable to watches made from other countries.


----------



## DragonJade

fonklover said:


> if you think in stereotypes you may think, made in japan must be better than the other. but let me compare this with the sneaker scene, as i am a sneaker fanatic. there is well known company that produces sneakers in china, in uk and even in usa. recently i had bad bad bad experiences with shoes made in uk, and i heard from dealers who had to send back whole sets of shoes, cause the quality was more like 2nd choice. the materials used however seem to be great quality. but the ones made in china are much better from handycraft, but the materials used are not the best (leather less soft etc). why is that? of course because all the sneaker companys moved their facilities to asia many years ago, and that is where is the knowledge and the experience of manufacturing all kind of shoes. with the facilities the knowledge has moved too. and i guess its the same with watches. that in these countries like thailand/china they must have a great knowledge and experience cause there it is, where most of the watches are made, and companys can easly find professional experienced workers.


Funny you mention that. I was speaking to a lady last week who said she is getting her wedding dress made in China and not in Britain. She said that not only will it be a heck of a lot cheaper, the workmanship (especially if you think about the price as well) is much better than general in the UK. No doubt you can get the same quality of workmanship in the UK, but not everyone has that kind of money.

I've lived in Japan for over 10 years, and I know the kind of quality they can come out with. Some excellent stuff, but also some rather shoddy things as well!


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## Sedi

entropy96 said:


> Japan-made and Swiss-made watches are generally incomparable to watches made from other countries.


 I'm probably not supposed to advocate my own beliefs too strongly as a moderator - but IMO that is complete nonsense. They are comparable and if it wasn't for the "Made in China" on the back I doubt that people would be even capable of telling the difference between a China-made G-Shock and one "Made in Japan" or rather with "Japan" on the back (there is only one G with "Made in Japan" on the back and that is the GW-5000 and since that one only comes in the "Made in Japan"-version there really is no way to compare it to others). Nobody has so far been able to produce any evidence for lower quality of Chinese Gs or for any difference in quality between "Made in Thailand" and "Japan" - like in case of the King - I think there were Kings produced in all 3 countries. I know there were reports of lower contrast on the newer LCDs used in the DW-5600 - but when Casio decides to cut down on costs in that case it has nothing to do with the production site. Machines don't care if they are located in China, Japan or Thailand. It's all about the applied QC. Here comes the big "BUT": I still like it when a product from a Japanese company says "Made in Japan" or "Japan" on it and not Thailand or China.

cheers, Sedi


----------



## entropy96

Sedi said:


> I'm probably not supposed to advocate my own beliefs too strongly as a moderator - but IMO that is complete nonsense. They are comparable and if it wasn't for the "Made in China" on the back I doubt that people would be even capable of telling the difference between a China-made G-Shock and one "Made in Japan" or rather with "Japan" on the back (there is only one G with "Made in Japan" on the back and that is the GW-5000 and since that one only comes in the "Made in Japan"-version there really is no way to compare it to others). Nobody has so far been able to produce any evidence for lower quality of Chinese Gs or for any difference in quality between "Made in Thailand" and "Japan" - like in case of the King - I think there were Kings produced in all 3 countries. I know there were reports of lower contrast on the newer LCDs used in the DW-5600 - but when Casio decides to cut down on costs in that case it has nothing to do with the production site. Machines don't care if they are located in China, Japan or Thailand. It's all about the applied QC. Here comes the big "BUT": I still like it when a product from a Japanese company says "Made in Japan" or "Japan" on it and not Thailand or China.
> 
> cheers, Sedi


Why are high-end G-Shocks only produced in Japan factories (ie. Japan K)?

I've never seen a Frogman, MTG-8100 or GW-5000 made in Thailand, or Malaysia, or China.

If the QC standards are the same with the rest of the factories, I see no reason why Casio would decide to make Frogmans or GW-5000s exclusively in Japan factories.


----------



## xevious

entropy96 said:


> Why are high-end G-Shocks only produced in Japan factories (ie. Japan K)?
> 
> I've never seen a Frogman, MTG-8100 or GW-5000 made in Thailand, or Malaysia, or China.
> 
> If the QC standards are the same with the rest of the factories, I see no reason why Casio would decide to make Frogmans or GW-5000s exclusively in Japan factories.


You are making a brash assumption.

First off, the quality of G-Shocks made in other countries has already been proven to be the same as those made in Japan, with only very few exceptions (brief quality issues that were rectified in short order).

Secondly, the higher end G-Shocks are made in far fewer quantities. It is probably not cost effective for CASIO to start a whole new production line in another country, when the _volume_ of watches produced won't exceed a certain number.

Finally, the Japanese have a strong pride in their products and are known to produce some watches exclusive to their domestic market (I don't know of any other country that does it as pervasively). And it's not just CASIO. I know first hand that some Japanese pen companies do the same thing, creating special releases made only for the JDM. And so, there's an extra "cultural cachet" with making their higher end watches in Japan. It costs more to make them there, and that's why their prices are notably quite higher too.


----------



## entropy96

xevious said:


> You are making a brash assumption.
> 
> First off, the quality of G-Shocks made in other countries has already been proven to be the same as those made in Japan, with only very few exceptions (brief quality issues that were rectified in short order).
> 
> Secondly, the higher end G-Shocks are made in far fewer quantities. It is probably not cost effective for CASIO to start a whole new production line in another country, when the _volume_ of watches produced won't exceed a certain number.
> 
> Finally, the Japanese have a strong pride in their products and are known to produce some watches exclusive to their domestic market (I don't know of any other country that does it as pervasively). And it's not just CASIO. I know first hand that some Japanese pen companies do the same thing, creating special releases made only for the JDM. And so, there's an extra "cultural cachet" with making their higher end watches in Japan. It costs more to make them there, and that's why their prices are notably quite higher too.


Ok, I see your points.
I do agree that most Japanese manufacturers create special releases exclusively for the JDM.
Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## LUW

At least in the case of the Frogs, the manufacturing process is quite different from a regular G. For instance, just the fact that they have screw backs demands a totally different machinery then with a regular plate+screws normal G. Also, being ISO 6425 certified demands that the Frog has to go through a VERY different QC process then all other regular 200 m Gs.


----------



## DragonJade

xevious said:


> Finally, the Japanese have a strong pride in their products and are known to produce some watches exclusive to their domestic market (I don't know of any other country that does it as pervasively).


True. The Frogmen and MR-Gs were initially only released for the Japanese domestic market. I think MR-Gs still are, aren't they? If you're only going to produce a relatively small quantity, is there really any need to set up the manufacturing/testing machines/lines in another country, send staff abroad to do the training, pay import tax, transportation, etc. to get them back into Japan? Heck, might as well do it all at home and cut out the red tape, time and taxes.

And then since you've got the machines and trained staff all in Japan, is it really worth the time and effort to have it all sent abroad? Maybe. Maybe not.

In general (and I do mean this in general terms) the Japanese they usually prefer Japanese products made in Japan if it's a Japanese firm. It's more of a national pride thing than anything else - we make the best products, etc. This is something most people will say about their own country!

If it's a Burberry trench, they usually won't touch it if it's made in Japan. Burberry is a British company, and they want it from Britain. Here, the Japanese are after the history, the tradition associated with it, the fashion statement, the name, etc. of the item. They want to be able to say, I have an expensive British item, made in Britain, I'm very fashionable, I've got a traditionally made item which has history to it, I have the fashion sense to buy something like this, I have money to buy a quality product, etc.


----------



## xevious

entropy96 said:


> Ok, I see your points. I do agree that most Japanese manufacturers create special releases exclusively for the JDM. Thanks for clarifying.


No problem, glad to help clarify. 



DragonJade said:


> True. The Frogmen and MR-Gs were initially only released for the Japanese domestic market. I think MR-Gs still are, aren't they? If you're only going to produce a relatively small quantity, is there really any need to set up the manufacturing/testing machines/lines in another country, send staff abroad to do the training, pay import tax, transportation, etc. to get them back into Japan? Heck, might as well do it all at home and cut out the red tape, time and taxes.
> 
> And then since you've got the machines and trained staff all in Japan, is it really worth the time and effort to have it all sent abroad? Maybe. Maybe not.
> 
> In general (and I do mean this in general terms) the Japanese they usually prefer Japanese products made in Japan if it's a Japanese firm. It's more of a national pride thing than anything else - we make the best products, etc. This is something most people will say about their own country!
> 
> If it's a Burberry trench, they usually won't touch it if it's made in Japan. Burberry is a British company, and they want it from Britain. Here, the Japanese are after the history, the tradition associated with it, the fashion statement, the name, etc. of the item. They want to be able to say, I have an expensive British item, made in Britain, I'm very fashionable, I've got a traditionally made item which has history to it, I have the fashion sense to buy something like this, I have money to buy a quality product, etc.


Yep, I can't agree with you more that it comes down to a cost basis by volume produced. Very interesting point about wanting the manufacturing to match the country of origin. I wonder how they feel about electronic products having numerous parts inside made in China, while the exterior casing reflects a brand from an entirely different country. Is there a tendency for the populace to avoid buying things stamped "Made In China" on the outside, if they can opt for an alternative? Or has the friction between the two countries since cooled off, to change the perception?

On the flip side, you have wealthy people in China coveting the Buick car brand, preferring it over Cadillac, when in fact they share so many parts made by the same company. Back in the days before WWII, Buick had great prestige in China. That perception still carries on today, despite the fact that current Buicks have nothing physically at all in common with their predecessors (except for the Buick badge).


----------



## Chrisek

Been following this thread, but don't consider myself worldly enough to add my two cents. But i did receive a watch that went against one theory here. My GW9110GY was made in Thailand but i was under impression this was JDM only. Not sure how it affects each theory here, but interesting none the less.


----------



## DragonJade

xevious said:


> Yep, I can't agree with you more that it comes down to a cost basis by volume produced. Very interesting point about wanting the manufacturing to match the country of origin. I wonder how they feel about electronic products having numerous parts inside made in China, while the exterior casing reflects a brand from an entirely different country. Is there a tendency for the populace to avoid buying things stamped "Made In China" on the outside, if they can opt for an alternative? Or has the friction between the two countries since cooled off, to change the perception?


Avoiding things made in China - There have been food scares in recent years, such as Chinese dumplings found to contain insecticide, which were for sale in Japan:
Some Chinese-made Dumplings Contain Insecticide: Panic Begins | Japan Probe

or the baby milk formula that was using toxic chemicals to boost the protein readout when tests were done on them:
2008 Chinese milk scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These incidents, and I'm sure others have put the Japanese off buying Chinese goods.

This is not to say that Japan hasn't had its own food scandals. For anyone interested, look up Snow Brand, BSE, food mislabelling, selling mouldy rice (toxic) to schools, etc.

And as you mentioned, there is the 'friction' between the two nations which does have real impact on people's perceptions on things, but this is best not discussed here.

One very interesting thing I'd like to quickly mention is about manufacturing abroad. I've worked with some major Japanese manufacturing corporations, and I've told me quite clearly that although they can set up outside of Japan and manufacture cheaper than in Japan, they won't do it. The reason being that they would be passing on skills and knowledge outside of the country. This is important for many reasons: the trained people may quit and work for someone else, pass on their knowledge, or set up a competitor; passing on skills and knowledge of such a high level to a country which in technological and manufacturing terms is probably decades behind, poses its own problems. Although I talk about some companies in Japan, the same could be said for Britain, France, Germany, the US, ...


----------



## DragonJade

Chrisek said:


> Been following this thread, but don't consider myself worldly enough to add my two cents. But i did receive a watch that went against one theory here. My GW9110GY was made in Thailand but i was under impression this was JDM only. Not sure how it affects each theory here, but interesting none the less.


The GW-9110GY is essentially the same as the GW-9100 - the daddy of them all, which is/was made in Thailand. The module is different, colours a little different, but physically it's the same thing. No need for retooling, no need for major retraining or a big change in the production line.

The GW-9100 was initially only released in Japan, but then went worldwide. Since the release of the GW-9100, there have been a host of other GW-9100x watches, such as the 9100P, R and BL.


----------



## xevious

It's one thing if outlandish contamination occurred with just produce, but it has happened with hard goods as well. Some baby toys had some nasty chemical traces that violated international regulations. Of course, this has been rectified, but it does leave a questionable air behind. Will they do it again?



DragonJade said:


> One very interesting thing I'd like to quickly mention is about manufacturing abroad. I've worked with some major Japanese manufacturing corporations, and I've told me quite clearly that although they can set up outside of Japan and manufacture cheaper than in Japan, they won't do it. The reason being that they would be passing on skills and knowledge outside of the country. This is important for many reasons: the trained people may quit and work for someone else, pass on their knowledge, or set up a competitor; passing on skills and knowledge of such a high level to a country which in technological and manufacturing terms is probably decades behind, poses its own problems. Although I talk about some companies in Japan, the same could be said for Britain, France, Germany, the US, ...


I've thought about this very thing. We've had espionage concerns with US owned technology. You train people who live in another nation, and there's no telling where that knowledge can go. The main principle at hand is a cultural philosophy. In China, there's no inherent concept of intellectual property. An idea is a free thing. If you show it and sell it, someone can copy it. If they make it better and/or cheaper, well, then that's your tough luck. While I understand the rationale, it allows the exploiters too great an opportunity to push the envelope, which ultimately becomes a detriment, not a free market benefit.

I think CASIO has very tight security with their technology. Also, there's a lot invested in complex patented machinery that people are trained to use, but not capable of rebuilding. Thus, you help ensure security of intellectual property, the design ideas that are the seed bed for creating the product. This is why we see knock-offs and fakes only _visually simulating_ a G-Shock, never coming close to _functioning_ like one. It probably cut quite a bit into CASIO profits up front, engineering the manufacturing to help protect their products from unauthorized duplication, but in the end it saves them money. The fakes available today are of concern, but not nearly as pervasive as they could be. Thus, profit loss is not significant (but they still keep the pressure on to prevent it from mounting).


----------



## hrav

You won't be able to protect IP from getting stolen, used elsewhere or reverse engineered. What those copycats (eg the Chinese) can't get are cultures (discipline, loyalty, creativity, pride, ...). My backgrounds are engineering and manufacturing, I have traveled many times to China. All I can tell you is that most Chinese don't have any shame of copying other people's ideas. I can say the same thing with other countries too where IPs are not valued and the laws are not enforced.


----------



## DragonJade

xevious said:


> I've thought about this very thing. We've had espionage concerns with US owned technology. You train people who live in another nation, and there's no telling where that knowledge can go. The main principle at hand is a cultural philosophy. In China, there's no inherent concept of intellectual property. An idea is a free thing. If you show it and sell it, someone can copy it. If they make it better and/or cheaper, well, then that's your tough luck. While I understand the rationale, it allows the exploiters too great an opportunity to push the envelope, which ultimately becomes a detriment, not a free market benefit.


You mention the idea as a free thing, and everyone copying the idea. I think the same could be said about any country, any product, at almost any period in time before the mid to late 1800s. Got an idea for a corkscew to open a bottle of wine? Scores of different designs and patents in a matter of years, but they all still do the same job. It's just some do it better, some cheaper, and of course some more badly. This is usually where the best rise to the top (unless you're talking about VHS and Betamax ;-) ). Back then, there was little recourse in copying, and it was pretty much fair game. Everyone was doing it. And now we have patents.

America was famous for its cure-all tonics, with everyone joining in on the cash cow bandwagon. Potato chips (crisps if you're British) were the same at one time before the likes of Lays bought most of them up. Everyone is now swiping their touch screen phones to unlock them. Is that a good thing? What happened to all those flip phones? I loved opening my old phone and having R2-D2 talk to me. :-(

I think I'm right in saying that Japan was notorious/famous for copying US radios in the early-mid part of the 1900s. Not only did they make them cheaper, they started to make them better than what the US were producing. The same could be said about lenses and cameras. And one could draw parallels now with Japan then and China now. And now Japan is the country we all think of when we talk about technology and electronics. I agree with you that copying is not fair and should be protected - all that money spent on R&D, only to have someone not have to spend the money or do the hard work, pinching your idea. It's not cricket. But most consumers won't care - it's the price in the end.

You also talked about training people in another nation and not knowing where the information could go. I agree with that, but I'd also like to point out that it's not just the 'foreigners' that do this. Lots of 'native' people do as well - in the news in the last few years have been Google, Microsoft, Apple, HP, Sun, etc. I'm just mentioning for balance.


----------



## DragonJade

hrav said:


> You won't be able to protect IP from getting stolen, used elsewhere or reverse engineered. What those copycats (eg the Chinese) can't get are cultures (discipline, loyalty, creativity, pride, ...). My backgrounds are engineering and manufacturing, I have traveled many times to China. All I can tell you is that most Chinese don't have any shame of copying other people's ideas. I can say the same thing with other countries too where IPs are not valued and the laws are not enforced.


I don't think the country, China, as a whole has come to accept the idea of copyright and IP. Much the same as the rest of the western world 2 or 300 years ago. It's not that they won't, necessarily, it's that they haven't been 'brought up' on the idea. It could take a few generations yet, but I think they'll get here.


----------



## hirobo2

GMT-II said:


> The most important reason why companies allocated outside Japan is to make their product affordable without compromising quality.
> 
> Except their high end range which people still pay ridiculous amount mostly for high Japanese worker wages and high expenses in Japan....


Not true, you guys. The only reason why companies outsource is to increase profits. And it clearly shows in the product. The reason why a Casio made in Japan "feels" more solidly built is b/c that is your soul reacting via intuition. And usually, your soul is right! Japanese "yellow" color dye never stains. This is not true of bright colors outsourced from elsewhere...

It's not just the people and processes, it's also the machinery. You can tell by the roughly (crude) cut (stamped???) words on the stainless steel back of a G-shock made in China vs finely ingrained, almost "soft" lettering embedded in steel on the back of a Casio made in Japan... Also, even in a $50 Casio watch, you can tell the stainless steel back cover from Japan (Japan movement, cased in Chna -> ie. Made in Japan but assembled in China) is made of a better mixture of metal alloys compared to the Chinese ones, which probably uses recycled metal scraps.

But about Japan reserving only the best for the Japanese market, that is not entirely true. Search Amazon/eBay, etc. you'll find sellers located in Japan who are selling "Japanese" imports that are made in China when you zoom in on the image of the back casing... In other words, Japan doesn't really reserve the best for Japan. Casio (or any other Japanese companies) is just as liable to sell made in China/Thailand/Malaysia stuff to their own Japanese market... But the stuff coming out of Japan is clearly the best!


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## Sedi

hirobo2 said:


> Not true, you guys. The only reason why companies outsource is to increase profits. And it clearly shows in the product. The reason why a Casio made in Japan "feels" more solidly built is b/c that is your soul reacting via intuition. And usually, your soul is right! Japanese "yellow" color dye never stains. This is not true of bright colors outsourced from elsewhere...
> 
> It's not just the people and processes, it's also the machinery. You can tell by the roughly (crude) cut (stamped???) words on the stainless steel back of a G-shock made in China vs finely ingrained, almost "soft" lettering embedded in steel on the back of a Casio made in Japan... Also, even in a $50 Casio watch, you can tell the stainless steel back cover from Japan (Japan movement, cased in Chna -> ie. Made in Japan but assembled in China) is made of a better mixture of metal alloys compared to the Chinese ones, which probably uses recycled metal scraps.
> 
> But about Japan reserving only the best for the Japanese market, that is not entirely true. Search Amazon/eBay, etc. you'll find sellers located in Japan who are selling "Japanese" imports that are made in China when you zoom in on the image of the back casing... In other words, Japan doesn't really reserve the best for Japan. Casio (or any other Japanese companies) is just as liable to sell made in China/Thailand/Malaysia stuff to their own Japanese market... But the stuff coming out of Japan is clearly the best!


Oh well, another Newb with the "hard-to-kill" urban legend about lesser quality of Casios made outside of Japan. I don't see much difference between casebacks of G-Shocks with "Japan Y" on the back or "Made in China". And I wonder which colorful Casio stained your wrist? The thing about the metal alloys is also just pure speculation without any proof whatsoever. *sigh* :roll:

cheers, Sedi


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## gshockers

I believe CASIO would only transfer stable and proven manufacturing processes and technology to their foreign factories. Newer product lines are probably manufactured in Japan first as its closer to their R&D but would eventually be transferred out once it gets stabilised. I would not worry about my G-Shock country of manufacture unless its a limited edition.


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## hirobo2

Sedi said:


> Oh well, another Newb with the "hard-to-kill" urban legend about lesser quality of Casios made outside of Japan. *I don't see much difference between casebacks of G-Shocks with "Japan Y" on the back or "Made in China"*. And I wonder which colorful Casio stained your wrist? The thing about the metal alloys is also just pure speculation without any proof whatsoever. *sigh* :roll:
> 
> cheers, Sedi


Well, do you actually have the same model made from the two countries to compare?

Anyways, if I can sum up Japanese manufacturing culture, it would be: "Stretch the limit of what you can do." Why stamp the letters when you can laser edge it (and it really shows, my laser edged case back is 10x more beautiful/natural feel compared to the stamped one. Basically, when Casio (or any other Japanese companies) outsource their manufacturing, every gets "dumbed down" (ie. laser edged -> stamped) b/c it's not possible to accomplish the same thing outside of Japan...


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## LUW

It's really amusing to see how people use a _huge _sample of two or three products to come to some scientific conclusion







.

I guess this is one of those myths that will be perpetuated _ad nauseum_ specially by newbies. But I won't complain, since no one is born with full knowledge and it's been more then a year (is that a new record?) since we get a new thread or someone uses necromancy to raise from the dead a thread about this.


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## hirobo2

*Sigh * Another chap who's never eaten ramen produced in Japan vs. ramen you can find at your local supermarket with a Japanese brand slapped onto it...


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## LUW

If the noodles aren't good,_ ergo_ consumer electronics can't be good either.








Well, I did ask for scientific proof.


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## Sedi

hirobo2 said:


> Well, do you actually have the same model made from the two countries to compare?


Well, I don't believe they use a different machine for the casebacks of different models. So comparing casebacks is rather easy if you have one Made in China Casio. 
So far there only has been one serious comparison between the same model - the DW-5600E. And contrast of the display was better on the China version, as were some other details. Feel free to write a better comparison of the same model from different production sites - with pics please so we can all see what you mean.

Cheers, Sedi


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## Sedi

Oops, I forgot that it was a comparison between Thailand and China made Gs.

Cheers, Sedi


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## hirobo2

I haven't opened my my Chinese-made G-shock yet, but can anyone confirm their made outside of Japan G-Shock doesn't have an octagonal LCD glass display, but a square one?


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## pritch

hirobo2 said:


> Well, do you actually have the same model made from the two countries to compare?
> 
> Anyways, if I can sum up Japanese manufacturing culture, it would be: "Stretch the limit of what you can do." Why stamp the letters when you can laser edge it (and it really shows, my laser edged case back is 10x more beautiful/natural feel compared to the stamped one. Basically, when Casio (or any other Japanese companies) outsource their manufacturing, every gets "dumbed down" (ie. laser edged -> stamped) b/c it's not possible to accomplish the same thing outside of Japan...


Are you possibly the Japanese minister responsible for trade and industrial exports posting in disguise? ;-)

I'd almost buy your romanticised version of Japanese Casios if it weren't for the fact that the only G-Shock I've ever owned (out of a _lot_) that ever truly lunched itself was my Japanese-designed & built Gaussman...!


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## Mike K

hirobo2 said:


> I haven't opened my my Chinese-made G-shock yet, but can anyone confirm their made outside of Japan G-Shock doesn't have a hexagonal LCD glass display, but a square one?


In the future, maybe you can give us a model number so that we don't have to work so hard to answer your questions? From this thread I found:



hirobo2 said:


> Current Casio collection:
> 
> CASIO AQW101 Fishing digital analog
> 
> CASIO PAS400b-5v Fishing Pathfinder CASIO G-7900 "Gulfman jr."


A little forum searching revealed this thread: https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/casio-g-shock-g-7900-module-430236.html

...which reveals that the G-7900 has the same shape crystal as a DW-6600, DW-6900 (or G- or GW-6900), which is kind of a squared-off circle.









For what it's worth, it's going to be the same shape crystal REGARDLESS of where the watch is made. :-d PacParts doesn't have separate listings (and parts numbers) for "G-7900 [name of country]"


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## hirobo2

^ Actually I was referring to the LCD screen (the glass that gets the electrical signal passed thru it to display the digits...) I want to know, has there ever been one made outside of Japan that is octagonal in shape?


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## paul338

I personally don't think that there's much difference in quality from Chinese and Japanese made Casio watches. Lots of Casio watches have modules that are made in Japan and vice versa. Many of the modules and watch cases are also made in China. I own both and I don't really see any differences in the quality. I like both.


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## Operationjason

Mine says JAPAN GE it's a GWG-1000 do you know what factory that is?


TheHobbit said:


> Just to give you an overview:
> 
> Basically G-Shocks are made in:
> Japan, Japan H, Japan M, Japan Y, Japan T, Japan K
> Thailand Y, Thailand H
> China Y
> Korea C, Korea T
> Malaysia, Malaysia Y
> The letter after the country name may indicate different factory.
> Then there those Japan Y movement assembled in Thailand or Malaysia.
> Some buckles are made in Indonesia.
> Lastly there is Taiwan (but no Made in Taiwan)


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## Time4Playnow

Operationjason said:


> Mine says JAPAN GE it's a GWG-1000 do you know what factory that is?


You know this is an ancient thread, right? Maybe in yesteryear Casio had factories in all of the places listed. But AFAIK, now they only produce Gs in Japan, China, and Thailand. "Japan GE" may refer to the new factory in Yamagata, Japan that Casio just opened a year or two ago.


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## Georgewg

Where else in Japan besides Yamagata did Casio manufacture G-Shocks before they opened up the new manufacturing plant in Yamagata? Does anybody know?


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## scuttle

TOPquark said:


> I've got several case reports from a chinese forum. If you live in an extremely cold region like somewhere near the boarder of Russia and if the watch was made from a more humid environment such as Malaysia or Thailand, the display may turn foggy during the winter due to the moisture enclosed inside the case while manufacturing.
> 
> It's not a problem of low quality though. The module is doing just fine, tough as it should be. But for people from those region, they may have their concerns. (They said it could be as cold as -40 degree Celsius in the mid winter.)
> 
> So far Japan and Korea made Gs do not seem to have the same problem.


It sounds like Casio should add a copper sulphate capsule.


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## Georgewg

scuttle said:


> It sounds like Casio should add a copper sulphate capsule.


What is a copper sulphate capsule, where would they put it and and what does it do to the watch? Please explain.


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## scuttle

Georgewg said:


> What is a copper sulphate capsule, where would they put it and and what does it do to the watch? Please explain.


It's a capsule of... Copper sulphate. Seriously, if that needs explaining more, I don't know what to say??? You put it, in this case, inside a watch. It absorbs water vapour. If the quantity of water to be absorbed is tiny, which it should be in a sealed watch, then the capsule can be too. Sinn are one maker who use them.


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## Georgewg

scuttle said:


> It's a capsule of... Copper sulphate. Seriously, if that needs explaining more, I don't know what to say??? You put it, in this case, inside a watch. It absorbs water vapour. If the quantity of water to be absorbed is tiny, which it should be in a sealed watch, then the capsule can be too. Sinn are one maker who use them.


Thank you for explaining. I never heard of this before. I also never knew that Sinn uses it inside their watches to absorb moisture and water. Very interesting.


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## scuttle

Georgewg said:


> Thank you for explaining. I never heard of this before. I also never knew that Sinn uses it inside their watches to absorb moisture and water. Very interesting.


I'm glad that worked for you. Remember that the capsule is tiny and just there to absorb water in the air sealed inside the watch when it is made!


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## LewHey

Hey I bought a Gshock an all it has is the 4 numbers 3169v.e. I have looked every where can't find it . It says made in Thailand and after the st steel it says Japan . If someone could help please . Oh and the 4 numbers are beside the G. And not boxed in . I found the watch on google but it says nothing about it . And under its pix it says decrypt Gshock numbers . It's pretty old an it still works great! Anyone know anything please email me. [email protected]


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## LewHey




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## dedpxl

LewHey said:


> View attachment 15845902


It's a fake


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## nonconformulaic

A G-Shock is a G-shock is a G-shock. Definitely doesn't matter where it was assembled!

Countless threads on this issue that, at least to me, often included more than a hint of causal racism, but... If your watch is a legit Casio (which we'll be happy to help you discern if you have any doubts) it really doesn't matter where it was assembled. Shocker (pun intended) for some f17members I know, but there are high quality manufacturing facilities and truly genius assembly line workers in EVERY nation on earth!

How about this...

If we (f17) can offer testimony based on quite a few more pictures that it's fake, you should return it if possible. If we can't find any reason it might be fake, but you're scared and the seller you bought it from won't give you your money back, you give us a heads up we can share with locals

Bottom line though, is a that G-Shock is a G-shock is a G-shock. Definitely doesn't matter where it was assembled!


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## Tetsu Tekubi

LewHey said:


> View attachment 15845902


definite fake. generic backplate they can use on multiple models. that cheap plasticy rubber resin is a sign as well.


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