# Watch-pen analogies . . . part I



## WX1 (Dec 20, 2006)

We can get into ink filling system and/or pen refill equivalents later, but, for now, here's a poll.


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## EAD (Dec 29, 2006)

The first one!
REally like it:-!


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## bmwpower (Oct 4, 2007)

Quartz are to watches as BP are to pens. Low maintenance, take a beating and easy to use...What more can i say..


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## Seth Hawkins (Dec 21, 2007)

Mechanical = Fountain Pen

Quartz = Ball Point

Automatic = Roller Ball


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

Pelikan is to Omega as Montblanc is to Rolex


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

Mathew J said:


> Pelikan is to Omega as Montblanc is to Rolex


I agree


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## Shangas (Mar 16, 2008)

Mechanicals are to watches what fountains are to pens. Both are rarely used in the mainstream, yet both still work perfectly fine if you look after them and both are still practical.


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## spluurfg (Feb 20, 2008)

Automatic = Cartridge FP
Manual = Reservoir FP
Quartz = Ballpoint
Kinetic = Rollerball

In my system, the philosophy is:

watch:method of regulation:en:method of ink delivery
watchower system::watch:ink type and storage mechanism


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## Hary (Jan 8, 2007)

spluurfg said:


> Automatic = Cartridge FP
> Manual = Reservoir FP
> Quartz = Ballpoint
> Kinetic = Rollerball
> ...


Sounds very logical :-!


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## gaijin (Oct 29, 2007)

Mathew J said:


> Pelikan is to Omega as *Montblanc is to Rolex*


I guess I'd have to agree with that one:










.:-!


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

Quartzes are to watches what a blunt pencil stub is to pens.


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## James Haury (Apr 10, 2008)

You can write time with a pen but it will not tell you the right time.You can measure time with a watch but, no one can keep it.


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## scuttle (Dec 15, 2008)

Mathew J said:


> Pelikan is to Omega as Montblanc is to Rolex


Given MB's reputation for exploding when dropped and a host of other reliability problems, as opposed to Rolex's much better than average toughness for mechanicals, I don't think that is fair. And otoh, I don't think Pelikan deserve the kudos of being compared to Omega - for a start they buy the most important part of their pen, the nib, from Bock. The Omega of fountain pens would probably be a Japanese company like Pilot/Namiki that makes its own nibs and still creates some innovative products, like the Vanishing Point.

And talking of the nib-movement comparison, MB do make their own nibs, but they don't offer a true extra fine or a cursive italic; it's hard to convey how yucky this is by historical fp standards, but believe me it's pretty bad... Again, I don't think anyone would say that Rolex make worse watches today than they did, say, in 1950, but a 50's Meisterstruck was a combination of a sophisticated brass piston filler with a celluloid shell and an exquisite, typically flex nib, that probably could only be recreated by a couple of people still working in the Western world today. A modern M'stk is a plastic tube (perspelex with glass fibres added for shine) with a mass produced non-flex nib that has a tiny amount of hand finishing for marketing reasons, which it doesn't need, and doesn't write as well as the 100% machine finished nibs that Bock sell to most of MB's rivals, who produce the pens that serious fp collectors are more likely to buy when they buy modern.

The G-Shock of fp's is probably the Rotring Core - it writes more smoothly than most MB's, costs nothing, and looks like someone made a pen by melting a Nike trainer and forcing it into a tube. Great pen if you like the weird grip section, which I don't.


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## BenL (Oct 1, 2008)

G-Shocks are to watches as BICs are to pens!


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

scuttle said:


> Given MB's reputation for exploding when dropped and a host of other reliability problems, as opposed to Rolex's much better than average toughness for mechanicals, I don't think that is fair. And otoh, I don't think Pelikan deserve the kudos of being compared to Omega - for a start they buy the most important part of their pen, the nib, from Bock. The Omega of fountain pens would probably be a Japanese company like Pilot/Namiki that makes its own nibs and still creates some innovative products, like the Vanishing Point.
> 
> And talking of the nib-movement comparison, MB do make their own nibs, but they don't offer a true extra fine or a cursive italic; it's hard to convey how yucky this is by historical fp standards, but believe me it's pretty bad... Again, I don't think anyone would say that Rolex make worse watches today than they did, say, in 1950, but a 50's Meisterstruck was a combination of a sophisticated brass piston filler with a celluloid shell and an exquisite, typically flex nib, that probably could only be recreated by a couple of people still working in the Western world today. A modern M'stk is a plastic tube (perspelex with glass fibres added for shine) with a mass produced non-flex nib that has a tiny amount of hand finishing for marketing reasons, which it doesn't need, and doesn't write as well as the 100% machine finished nibs that Bock sell to most of MB's rivals, who produce the pens that serious fp collectors are more likely to buy when they buy modern.
> 
> The G-Shock of fp's is probably the Rotring Core - it writes more smoothly than most MB's, costs nothing, and looks like someone made a pen by melting a Nike trainer and forcing it into a tube. Great pen if you like the weird grip section, which I don't.


Interesting, I once came across a website where an apparent 'insider' swore that the cost to produce a Mont Blanc is less then $20, maybe few dollars more for a fountain pen. I can't say I dispute this, yet I still like Mont Blanc.


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## scuttle (Dec 15, 2008)

anonymousmoose said:


> Interesting, I once came across a website where an apparent 'insider' swore that the cost to produce a Mont Blanc is less then $20, maybe few dollars more for a fountain pen. I can't say I dispute this, yet I still like Mont Blanc.


The above is probably about right. Modern MB's often still have excellent aesthetics, but if you want to see a *real* pen you should find a vintage 149 from back when they were still made of celluloid and brass. A lot of people who are serious about pens prefer Pelikan to MB, but I prefer to buy vintage. If I was buying modern I'd go Japanese - Sailor, Namiki, Nakaya, Danitrio.

The MB's I'd avoid completely are the twist mechanism resin pens - the twist action stresses the particularly brittle plastic used (perspex with glass fibres to make it shiny , aka "precious resin") and a lot of pens respond by suddenly breaking for no apparent reason.


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## scuttle (Dec 15, 2008)

BenL said:


> G-Shocks are to watches as BICs are to pens!


..Well, the BIC is more likely to survive a from a table than an MB, and a G than a Rolex - so, yes, they have a lot in common! But a Core is really a better match. You look at it and ask "How the hell did anyone come up with something that fugly?!?" just as with Casio's less successful efforts. But at the same time it does work really well - I hate teh grip on the Core, but some people find it magically transforms their writing into legibility.


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## children (Feb 23, 2009)

mechanicals = fountain pens 
automatic = Roller Ball
quartz = Ball Point


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## HenryLouis (Nov 30, 2008)

Rollerballs shouldn't be automatics. They aren't best of both worlds as you are just paying for the refill. I classify them the same as Ballpoints


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## austinnh (May 25, 2009)

With rollerballs you get some of the smoothness of a FP without the associated inconveniences (messy filling from a bottle, leaks, etc...), right? Isn't that sort-of the best of bost worlds, or atleast an attempt (since the writing qualities of a rollerball obviously aren't quite what the writing qualities of a FP are)?

With automatics you get the qualities of a mechanical (maybe "qualities" isn't the right word), without the associated inconvenience (frequent winding).

On the other hand, rollerballs are not a subset of fountain pens, while automatics are a subset of mechanicals. So the analogy definitely isn't perfcet

Scuttle, that's a lot of interesting information about MB. Based on reading around (little actual experience with high-end fountain pens) I'm getting the impression that the Japanese pens are the best of modern fountain pens. I own a Pilot 78G (inexpensive plastic pen, SS nib) that I love.


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## HenryLouis (Nov 30, 2008)

I think that filling from the bottle is exactly what I love about fountain pens. You can choose from almost every color in the spectrum! With a rollerball you don't have a choice. 

I am glad with your choice of the 78G. Don't get caught up in the looks of a pen. Some look at pens as status symbols, like some people on this forum. Montblanc caters to this segment of the population. Anything really over $100 on a rollerball pen is for the name. I could just melt some gold over a ballpoint refill, and it'd be the same. 

If you want a nicer Pilot, get a Pilot Vanishing point or a Sailor Sapporo. They are relatively inexpensive, under $150.


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## TimeZero (Oct 20, 2008)

HenryLouis said:


> I think that filling from the bottle is exactly what I love about fountain pens. You can choose from almost every color in the spectrum! With a rollerball you don't have a choice.


Depends. The Monteverde Mega Ink ball is a rollerball that fills like a fountain pen, so you have the exact same choices of bottled ink (or it also takes standard international converters). A couple of other manufacturers offered similar systems, although none (I believe) were a commercial success).

Also, Yafa makes a wide variety of colors for their rollerball refills, which are designed to fit a large assortment of different brands.

But generally, I agree with you - I love fountain pens because I enjoy filling from a bottle (although I tend to stick with the tried and true Omas Blue ink lately).


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## HenryLouis (Nov 30, 2008)

Ever since I tried PR american blue I don't even touch my Omas blue


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## TimeZero (Oct 20, 2008)

HenryLouis said:


> Ever since I tried PR american blue I don't even touch my Omas blue


That's funny, it was the opposite for me. While I love the saturated colors of the Private Reserve inks, their slow drying time (generally) was a deal-breaker for me. Omas has the brilliant color, wonderful flow and quick drying time - the rare and elusive bottled fountain pen ink "trifecta."

But, like everything else, YMMV.


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## HenryLouis (Nov 30, 2008)

True. I unfortunately felt Omas blue felt kind of "dry"... I can't explain it. Almost chalky when dried. I don't care much for slow dry time. It quick enough for me.


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## Martin_P (Aug 12, 2008)

How about Fountain Pens and Mechanicals are to tastefulness as Quartzes and Ballpoints are to the ignorant, wait, this isn't even an analogy...


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## Shangas (Mar 16, 2008)

Martin_P said:


> Fountain Pens and Mechanicals are to tastefulness as Quartzes and Ballpoints are to the ignorant


= Ultimate Truth.


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## cedarman320 (Jul 29, 2007)

Martin_P said:


> How about Fountain Pens and Mechanicals are to tastefulness as Quartzes and Ballpoints are to the ignorant, wait, this isn't even an analogy...





Shangas said:


> = Ultimate Truth.


Wow, you guys are tough!:think: <| I have to say I love, use, and prefer fountain pens and mechanicals/automatic watches, but calling ballpoints and quartzes (or those who use them) ignorant and claiming to have the market cornered on tastefulness is going a bit too far, imho. Just my 2 cents.

Rick


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## Shangas (Mar 16, 2008)

I've never enjoyed ballpoint pens and I'm yet to find a useful purpose for them, short of stabbing an attacker in the neck. Fountain pens, I find, are just better isntruments. If they sucked, they would not have lasted as long as they have today.

http://scheong.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/natural-inky-goodness-the-joy-of-the-fountain-pen/

An article that I wrote in my blog, explaining why FPs are so awesome.


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## TimeZero (Oct 20, 2008)

cedarman320 said:


> Wow, you guys are tough!:think: <| I have to say I love, use, and prefer fountain pens and mechanicals/automatic watches, but calling ballpoints and quartzes (or those who use them) ignorant and claiming to have the market cornered on tastefulness is going a bit too far, imho. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Rick


Rick, I have to agree with you. I love and prefer fountain pens, but it's a personal preference. I respect and appreciate all forms of writing instruments and the opinions of those whose choices are different than my own.

And let's not forget, as good as fountain pens are, they're not without their flaws; flaws that rollerballs and ballpoints don't have. The same is true with quartz watches. No matter how we might appreciate the fine craftsmanship that a mechanical represents, quartz watches are generally more accurate and require less maintenance. There's nothing wrong with choosing the accuracy and ease of a quartz watch over the additional effort involved with owning a mechanical.

It's all good, and there's no need for an "us v. them" mentality.


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## cedarman320 (Jul 29, 2007)

I never said or implied fountain pens "sucked". I prefer them and I use them as my primary writing instrument and own close to 2 dozen, including vintage. I was simply saying that categorizing ball points (I dislike them as well, and prefer roller ball if I can't use a fp) and quartzes as ignorant (or implying that those who use them are ignorant) is a bit strong, divisive, and unnecessary.

My $.02, imho, ymmv, contents may shift during shipping and objects may appear closer....

Rick


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## Mathew J (Oct 18, 2006)

scuttle said:


> Given MB's reputation for exploding when dropped and a host of other reliability problems, as opposed to Rolex's much better than average toughness for mechanicals, I don't think that is fair. And otoh, I don't think Pelikan deserve the kudos of being compared to Omega - for a start they buy the most important part of their pen, the nib, from Bock. The Omega of fountain pens would probably be a Japanese company like Pilot/Namiki that makes its own nibs and still creates some innovative products, like the Vanishing Point.
> 
> And talking of the nib-movement comparison, MB do make their own nibs, but they don't offer a true extra fine or a cursive italic; it's hard to convey how yucky this is by historical fp standards, but believe me it's pretty bad... Again, I don't think anyone would say that Rolex make worse watches today than they did, say, in 1950, but a 50's Meisterstruck was a combination of a sophisticated brass piston filler with a celluloid shell and an exquisite, typically flex nib, that probably could only be recreated by a couple of people still working in the Western world today. A modern M'stk is a plastic tube (perspelex with glass fibres added for shine) with a mass produced non-flex nib that has a tiny amount of hand finishing for marketing reasons, which it doesn't need, and doesn't write as well as the 100% machine finished nibs that Bock sell to most of MB's rivals, who produce the pens that serious fp collectors are more likely to buy when they buy modern.
> 
> The G-Shock of fp's is probably the Rotring Core - it writes more smoothly than most MB's, costs nothing, and looks like someone made a pen by melting a Nike trainer and forcing it into a tube. Great pen if you like the weird grip section, which I don't.


Wow wish I had kept up on this thread as this is a fabulous reply to which I agree overall however my analogy was based more on public perception than product quality (or lack thereof). I find that certain products appeal to the same demographic generally..Montblanc, Panerai, Rolex, Harley....all brands that are usually admired by a similar set (again always exceptions to the rule).

As for MB's exploding due to their thin barrel wall construction and excessive glass infusion into their "resin" I would have to say that is much like the Odets Cal 3000 review with metal shards and all  and much like Rolex, Monrblanc has reinforced their pens with brass liners so the shiny resin/plastic can remain 

With the Omega reference, that is curious...sure Pelikan sources from Boch, but Omega still uses ETA movements in much of its line, only recently have they started going with a collaborative movement in the 8500, but overall the "hearts" for many of their pieces have been common modified movments, much like Pelikans reliace on Boch.

I love my namiki but wouldn't put it as a parallel to Omega, especially since Omega is focusing more on moving up market than they are on technical innovation.

I do love your synopsis on MB modern vs vintage though, and while many (myself included) wouldn't say Rolex is worse from a reliability standpoint when compared to their vintage offerings, I think it is fair to say that they aren't what they used to be and instead focus now on style and "bling" instead of simply a good solid performer.

Also I am a bit smitten with my new Parker Sonnet I recently got from my wife, it is an all silver model...amazing quality for a smaller price than I would have pegged it as.

As always just my 2


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## outatime (Oct 14, 2009)

I am a newbie here but to me its Harley/MB/Rolex Sub. All black.
and Seiko/Parker.

To me mechanical watches is to FP as quartz watches are to Office 2007


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## fsnow55 (Jan 5, 2010)

Attributes: Pen is to Watch is to Gem 
Recognized Quality: Namiki is to Omega is to Agate 
Marketing: MB is to Rolex is to Diamond
Underrated: Hero is to Seagull is to Jade

fsnow55


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## salduchi (Nov 4, 2007)

Mechanical Chronograph = Fountain Pen

Quartz = Ball Point

Automatic = Roller Ball 


Also could not find a better analogy than the one made in post above. which is MB = Rolex. I bought my first one yesterday from the sales section here, a MB 163 and I just can't wait to find out what "precious resin" is LOL.


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## scuttle (Dec 15, 2008)

HenryLouis said:


> True. I unfortunately felt Omas blue felt kind of "dry"... I can't explain it. Almost chalky when dried. I don't care much for slow dry time. It quick enough for me.


Try adding some PR blue to the Omas. Say about 10-25% should be enough to zing up the faster drying Omas. Then test it a cheap pen for a few weeks - once in a blue moon mixed inks react so that get deposited sediment, etc.


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## RNHC (Feb 13, 2010)

scuttle said:


> Given MB's reputation for exploding when dropped and a host of other reliability problems, as opposed to Rolex's much better than average toughness for mechanicals, I don't think that is fair. And otoh, I don't think Pelikan deserve the kudos of being compared to Omega - for a start they buy the most important part of their pen, the nib, from Bock. The Omega of fountain pens would probably be a Japanese company like Pilot/Namiki that makes its own nibs and still creates some innovative products, like the Vanishing Point.


By your analogy, Pelikan DOES compare to Omega.

Pelikan gets their most important part, the nib, from Bock.
Omega gets their most important part, the movement, from Swatch. ;-)


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