# IWC vs. JLC



## chraya

Would you consider IWC to be in the same league as JLC? 

The specific background to the question stems from a conversation I had with a sales manager for a JLC boutique in the U.A.E. He was bemoaning the fact that many brands he considered inferior to JLC had far better brand recognition in the local market. He was particularly worked up about IWC which he does very well in the U.A.E. but, according to this guy, is not in the same league as JLC.

What say you all?


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## jango602

As much as I like IWC, JLC is simply a notch higher in my book.


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## Weight Driven

as much as I like JLC, I feel that IWC is slightly better. Speaking from a vintage watch collector standpoint, I have found many more JLC's than I have IWC's. Seems they are just harder to find. Not sure what that means but there it is.


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## ijpx

JLC without a doubt, just look at the number of in-house movements and complicated watches JLC is able to produce, IMO.


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## Andrés

ijpx said:


> JLC without a doubt, just look at the number of in-house movements and complicated watches JLC is able to produce, IMO.


 I agrees. JLC gets my vote.


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## NightScar

Movement-wise, I'd say JLC is above IWC but when it comes to fit and finish, I think IWC is on par. When you go higher in the price range, I think IWC gets closer to JLC too once you compare each others in-house movements. JLC is still a bit on top but the difference is smaller compared to their entry level watches.


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## anirudhkitt

I am sorry to intrude upon this forum as at this point in time i have no means to buy either of these two fantastic watches but have read and studied a great deal about the history of these two companies.

@Weight Driven
But as far as my knowledge goes , although vintage IWC's may be more sought after, this does not mean that it was a Better watch, probably rarer. In fact many of the great calibres developed in the last 80 years have come from JLC including the famous JLC 920 calibre o developed in conjunction with AP that remains to this date the ONLY calibre to have been used by Patek, Vacheron Constantin and Audemars Piguet. (Now AP owns the right to this movement). 

IMHO, It seems no contest to me. It requires great skill, ability and investment and god knows what else to build every calibre used in their watches . And really IN-house. I mean they build movements from the ground up. Not modify ebauches (though no denying that is no less of a skill) like many other companies. 

I think the more comparable company To JLC is girard perregaux. 

Please dont take it that i am slandering IWC. i mean if i had to rate them out of ten (which is the sign of a stupid person -- that's me). but i am just trying to get my point across 
JLC - 9/10
IWC - 8.75/10

That said my dream watch is the IWC portugese ref :5001 - 09. 

All this IMHO....i didnt want to offend anyone. sorry if i did


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## anirudhkitt

nightscar said:


> movement-wise, i'd say jlc is above iwc but when it comes to fit and finish, i think iwc is on par. When you go higher in the price range, i think iwc gets closer to jlc too once you compare each others in-house movements. Jlc is still a bit on top but the difference is smaller compared to their entry level watches.


:-! :-!


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## egzbuen

NightScar said:


> Movement-wise, I'd say JLC is above IWC but when it comes to fit and finish, I think IWC is on par. When you go higher in the price range, I think IWC gets closer to JLC too once you compare each others in-house movements. JLC is still a bit on top but the difference is smaller compared to their entry level watches.


I agree with this too. :-!


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## Driver.8

As a fan (and owner) of IWC watches, I have to say that JLC is indeed a clear notch above. The sheer amount and quality of their in-house movements elevates them to the highest echelons IMO. And despite being expensive they do in fact offer tremendous "bang for your buck" too. Personally (and I'm sure many will find this controversial) I'd MUCH rather own a JLC than a Patek (or an AP) any day of the week.

Finish-wise I'd agree that IWC and JLC are very close, but in terms of all-round watchmaking, it's JLC all the way.


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## anirudhkitt

Also i am sure that thee IWC Mark VII used a JLC movement before they started using ETA 2892!!

but correct me if i am wrong somehow..i am after all in the IWC forum!!


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## anirudhkitt

OT::: but why does girard perregaux seem not to be discussed at all on the forum?. If i am correct even they design and develop their own movement from the ground up.As far as i understand they even manufacture movements to other brands and is still and independent company
Why????


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## blimey

performance = JLC (IWC's pelaton movement is pretty solid)
looks = IWC (some)


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## Denizen

JLC is indeed [at least] one notch higher than IWC. this goes beyond mere forum opinion as Richemont itself views JLC as one of their haute horlogerie brands.

as for brand recognition...it should be noted that better brand recognition does not mean that the better known brand is the better watch, of course.

maybe he was bemoaning JLC's lesser recognition because he gets less customers and walk-in traffic than other brands. it doesn't bother me one bit that generally only a WIS would know how good JLC, GO, IWC, etc are.



chraya said:


> Would you consider IWC to be in the same league as JLC?
> 
> The specific background to the question stems from a conversation I had with a sales manager for a JLC boutique in the U.A.E. He was bemoaning the fact that many brands he considered inferior to JLC had far better brand recognition in the local market. He was particularly worked up about IWC which he does very well in the U.A.E. but, according to this guy, is not in the same league as JLC.
> 
> What say you all?


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## cl0r0x70

My sense is that JLC is at the top of the second tier of watch manufacturers (behind the "big three" and a few brands like ALS.) It seems like IWC is definitely a step behind them, although still a high-end company with a few iconic offerings.


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## NightScar

Not to throw gas to the flame and I know looks is subjective but I just find IWC designs much better.

In the Portuguese line alone, I wouldn't mind practically all the offerings.

















Then there's teh beautiful Pilots.

















Then the awesome Aquatimers.

















There is also the rugged Inge.

















Can't forget about the Da Vinci and Portofino.

















I honestly think IWC has one of the best watch line-ups out there. I could see myself wearing any of these. The only thing I have against IWC is that they keep increasing the size of their cases but other than that, all of these are beautiful.


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## NightScar

Now, nothing against JLC, they also make beautiful watches such as the Reverso, Amvox and Master Control but I just don't think overall, it doesn't match up against IWCs line-up.


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## anirudhkitt

NightScar said:


> Now, nothing against JLC, they also make beautiful watches such as the Reverso, Amvox and Master Control but I just don't think overall, it doesn't match up against IWCs line-up.


Are u talking about looks alone ? Does the movement inside the watch not count. Or the other technical innovations associated with the the brand?

Remember the OP asked about the Brand and not a particular watch. As good a brand IWC maybe, not a brand quite in the same level as JLC. IMHO.
And no offense!!! :thanks


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## v76

For me, the movement is very important (and the reliability, innovation and accuracy it is capable of), much more than the looks of the watch. Remember, what is considered a classic/great/sweet-looking watch today might not be so a few years hence. Designs are based on the vagaries of fashion and are hence transient by nature.

As an illustration, very few of the designs from the '20s and '30s would be considered as attractive when viewed through today's eyes, except in the eyes of hardcore WIS.


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## Denizen

NightScar said:


> Not to throw gas to the flame and I know looks is subjective but I just find IWC designs much better.


but keep in mind the OP's question. he's not asking which brand we like better but which brand is considered more prestigious in terms of a number of horological criteria.

i like more of IWC's lineup than i do JLC, but JLC is significantly superior in key areas:

finishing
movements - you won't find an ETA movement in a JLC and their movement portfolio is highly diverse
horological contribution
engineering & technical innovation

in some of these areas, IWC has chosen not to go to high(er) levels for specific reasons...all well and good, but the fact that JLC does is why they're recognized as better.


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## NightScar

Denizen said:


> but keep in mind the OP's question. he's not asking which brand we like better but which brand is considered more prestigious in terms of a number of horological criteria.
> 
> i like more of IWC's lineup than i do JLC, but JLC is significantly superior in key areas:
> 
> finishing
> movements - you won't find an ETA movement in a JLC and their movement portfolio is highly diverse
> horological contribution
> engineering & technical innovation
> 
> in some of these areas, IWC has chosen not to go to high(er) levels for specific reasons...all well and good, but the fact that JLC does is why they're recognized as better.


No, I agree JLC is a not higher, I even posted it a few posts up. I was responding to:



blimey said:


> performance = JLC (IWC's pelaton movement is pretty solid)
> looks = IWC (some)


And this from the cross post in the hign-end thread:



djmm said:


> I actually think IWC has nothing on JLC in terms of looks and elegance (well I have to admit the Portuguese is really beautiful watch nonetheless). I guess that just shows we all have very different taste in watches.


It was also a response to why IWC sells much better and JLC and GP has a lower resale value, because look-wise IWC got them beat.



v76 said:


> For me, the movement is very important (and the reliability, innovation and accuracy it is capable of), much more than the looks of the watch. Remember, what is considered a classic/great/sweet-looking watch today might not be so a few years hence. Designs are based on the vagaries of fashion and are hence transient by nature.
> 
> As an illustration, very few of the designs from the '20s and '30s would be considered as attractive when viewed through today's eyes, except in the eyes of hardcore WIS.


To me, movement is also important but it isn't the main thing. I am very happy not having an in-house movement in my IWC, the modified ETA makes it much reliable and once the waarranty expires, repair would be much cheaper in the long run. Like I said in the other thread, it could have the most complicated movement in the world with 100 jewels and tourby but if the watch looks like crap, it would not touch my wrist.

As for the looks, I can honestly say the Portuguese and Pilot series has timeless designs. Sure watches from the 20's and 30's didn;t have the most appealing design now but that was in the beginning of the wrist watch generations, at least it was starting so designs bound to get dated. I mean I am not exactly a big fan of the Model T and it pretty much started the car industry.

The updated looks can become a real classic though and I can see my Port chrono being passed down to my grand kids and them actually liking them. I mean look at the Rolex Sub and Explorer, those are classic design that has survived the test of time. IWC's 3536 is ont he same path, the problem is they stopped producing it but the Portuguese and Pilot hasn't evolved much and has a cleaner and more timeless design. Again, look is subjective and that is how I feel.


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## anirudhkitt

sorry....wrong post


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## jole777

What about JLC,IWC and Zenith?
Where would you place Zenith-equal to IWC and lower than JLC or?


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## NightScar

Here's a good article comparing an IWC Portuguese and a Zenith Class Elite iirc:
https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=253432&highlight=zenith


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## jole777

The link doesn't work there.Damn,now i am interested to know what was said.


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## NightScar

It took a while but I managed to find the pdf file again. Hopefully it works.
http://www.watchtime.at/archive/wt_2004_02/WT_2004_02_044.pdf


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## Carrera 3

I have to agree with NightScar on this one.

Having an in house movement is great...The feeling of exclusivity, uniqueness and superior engineering marvel is definitely an important aspect but to me, it's not the main consideration when purchasing a watch...In house or not, does not really bother me so as long as it meets the perfomance specs of the highest level for the price.

I always believe that watches are like cars..after a certain price point, model to model...they all drive pretty much the same (BMW, AUDI, MERCS and Lexus) each to their own special way. The mechanics if superior to one another is minor. So it leaves the other aspects..like comfort, design and maintenance cost eg...

Although JLC may offer more in terms of complications and in house movements. I think IWC is ahead of JLC in design and the timeless appeal. Like Rolex, it hasn't change much in design throughout the years but remained the same in appeal.


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## jole777

NightScar said:


> It took a while but I managed to find the pdf file again. Hopefully it works.
> http://www.watchtime.at/archive/wt_2004_02/WT_2004_02_044.pdf


Thank you NightScar!
Works like a charm,reading it now :-!


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## cl0r0x70

JLC is flirting with crashing into the upper upper echelon alongside the "big three" PP,AP,and VC. If they have peers, it's brands like ALS,Breguet,GP,etc.

I love IWC. . . their aesthetic is incredible, and I think some of their designs are iconic, but they simply aren't quite in that league.


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## cl0r0x70

JLC is flirting with crashing into the upper upper echelon alongside the "big three" PP,AP,and VC.  If they have peers, it's brands like ALS,Breguet,GP.

I love IWC. . . their aesthetic is incredible, and I think some of their designs are iconic, but they simply aren't quite in that league.


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## papazulu

I agree, since IWC started using ETA movements, their credibility went down as far as I´m concerned, I have them all, patek, V&C, JLC, and what is my favorite...look here.


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## Ananda

jlc is in a different league imo - true haute horlogerie. iwc is more a 'bunch of engineers got together". (just my opinion and meant to be somewhat humorous and taken with a grain of salt)


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