# SAWTA vs. WOSTEP vs. CW21



## JustinD (Apr 6, 2011)

I was wondering if someone could describe the differences of the programs listed in the title. Is one better than the other? How do they differ?

I have been planning on enrolling in the program at N. Seattle Community College - on their website it indicates that SAWTA curriculum is taught but that it's taught by WOSTEP certified faculty.

Just trying to get things straight in my mind about it.


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

Perhaps "versus" is not the right word. All three certifications are attempting to train watchmakers and they all are model programs. WOSTEP is the Watchmakers of Switzerland Training and Education Program. A collective attempt by manufactures, brands and other Swiss to train watchmakers around the world with a comprehensive education in the traditional watchmaking arena. Graduates (around the world) are the most formally trained watchmakers.

SAWTA is a Swiss American Watchmaking Alliance developed by Rolex. It came about when brands (ROLEX) complained graduates of the WOSTEP schools were deficient in primarily case work, ie. crystals, case polishing, band repairs and other areas. 

CW21 is a certification awarded by the AWCI or American Watch and Clock Institute. This certification is an opportunity for existing watchmakers, watchmakers that are not in school or have been working for possibly years, to take a test and receive a certification. Many schools also give this final exam and confer certifications upon graduation. It is an attempt to clean up a rather dubious certification process in the past that was based on home study and self administered tests. 

There are today probably 5000 watchmakers in the US. All the schools in the US, assuming a full class, graduate maybe, and I am probably being generous in this estimate, 100 graduates. The average watchmaker is approaching the age of retirement, dying, changing professions at a greater rate than the number of graduating students. It is literally a dying industry. There are many reasons for this, enough for another thread or three.

Michael, WOSTEP grad Seattle class of 2004


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## Henry Hatem (Sep 28, 2006)

WOSTEP is the most recognized certification in the world. With that said the industry is in a contest over who will hold / decide / control the standards of watchmaking certification. Rolex has been very active in creating the SAWTA standard as well as the standard for the AWCI which is the CW21. Marketing the standard to industry / public is the key to success of the standards and unfortuneatly so far Rolex and AWCI has not done a great job at promoting awareness of their certifications. In short the consumer / public and the person wanting certification is left with a tough decision. On the flip side all 3 curriculum's are very good, frankly there are no others in the USA. How to pick? I am not 100% familiar with the latest versions of the curriculum's but when I taught at North and SAWTA was coming in, WOSTEP in my opinion had a more complete program from manufacturing to watch repair (I consider manufacturing important to watchmaking for many reasons but is off track of the subject here). SAWTA if I remember correctly "fast tracked" or omitted some manufacturing in favor of more intense training in watch repair. CW21 is very similar to the SAWTA program but is sanctioned by AWCI. The key here is what you want out of the certification. WOSTEP is still the most recognized brand, SAWTA coming in second and I think CW21 coming in 3rd. I think AWCI has a long way to go re assuring the industry it will continue with it's standard. AWCI has gone through so many evolutions of certifications that I think many people are shy about what they might do next - AWCI - Follow through! SAWTA has very high standards for examination and certification which I applaud and if they kick in a bit more manufacturing I think they could dominate in the USA. WOSTEP is the beginning of watchmaking certifications with Antoine Simone at the helm. It is the gold standard that SAWTA can and one day will be equal too in the industries eyes. Again what does this mean for an incoming student? WOSTEP or SAWTA would be my choices then the CW21. (I remember some talk of SAWTA schools also sitting for the CW21 at the same time). I think the decision is yours and if your goal is for watch repair either certification will serve you well. Any resume for a position in watchmaking that includes WOSTEP, SAWTA or CW21 and or 2 years of study in the program will surely be accepted. Go to the school you can afford to spend as much time studying and applying yourself to do well. North Seattle originally a WOSTEP school was (is still?) run by a grant through a very generous Rolex. It is slowly changing /changed into a SAWTA school but is still possibly certified as a WOSTEP school. The industry needs higher calibre watchmakers and there are not enough. WOSTEP and SAWTA have been trying to address it and I think they will continue to provide the best curriculum available in the USA. Don't be afraid to ask questions and interview the schools to get the best education you can.


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## Outta Time (Feb 9, 2010)

The reason Rolex and other companies want training to include resurfacing and polishing/repair of cases is because the authorized service centres have made it common and standard practice to refinish the bracelets and cases of watches coming in for overhaul. This is a fairly recent development, over the past 10-15 years, and a lot of companies are jumping on the bandwagon. It was originally the domain of the higher end watches to have repair centres that would completely overhaul and refinish the watch, but now many companies are also offering/pushing this. The last three hapless watchmakers I worked with that got stuck on full time case and bracelet refinishing quit, and there were certainly hard feelings. With the severe shortage of watchmakers globally, my position is that no company can afford to burn certified watchmakers. I worked for several repair centres and I found it stultifying and mindless, and I was instructed to do things that were contrary to my training. Still, the repair centres do pay well, and that includes benefits.


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## JustinD (Apr 6, 2011)

Thanks, all, very informative answers.

Harry - that's interesting about some of the manufacturing being removed out of the SAWTA curriculum. I'm interested in all aspects of watchmaking but am particularly interested in the manufacturing of watches and their components. I've sent an email to the NSCC about what their program offers. Hopefully it's a positive response as I'm from the Seattle area and am really quite keen on staying there.


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## GGTK (Sep 4, 2009)

There's still plenty of micromechanics involved in the SAWTA program.. first year students made a set lever bridge for the 6497, a balance tack and click and spring, along with a movement holder for our first main exam all within a span of a few weeks.
You can view what the students are working on at LWT on the unofficial facebook page.


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## JustinD (Apr 6, 2011)

Nice link. Looking at some of the other photos some of the work they get to do looks like a lot of fun.

I've emailed the one of the assistants of the watch program I'm looking at and she said the SAWTA and WOSTEP curriculum were "basically the same". I won't be discouraged from applying somewhere that teaches one or the other.


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## GGTK (Sep 4, 2009)

They really aren't the same curriculum..


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## Henry Hatem (Sep 28, 2006)

I'll try to add my opinion on a few questions that came up. 

RE: case polishing. I agree many watchmakers are deficient in case polishing and more should be added to any curriculum. But with the many brands, styles, materials and shapes without physically having cases to practice on...... you can't train students to be more efficient on the many brands of cases. HOWEVER - you can train a watchmaker to understand the polishing process and be able to apply it to many surfaces and materials so when they get into industry they can have a shorter learning curve on the product.

RE- manufacturing when my students lost a click spring they had to make one - daily stuff. Balance tack is a simple introductory project as well as the set bridge but a more refined in filing and detailed fitting and a clear understanding of it's purpose and use.

RE - service centers - yes they can be boring and go against the very grain of a watchmaker. The key is your an employee and do what the manufacturer wants. A lot of people go into the trade with a magical vision of the Swiss alps over looking a pasture replete with cows. It's not so. The service center is there to produce as many repairs as efficiently and cost effective as possible. If you enjoy watches and are of high enough calibre to be trained and work your way up you can avoid the bench in the corner. I am thankful for all watchmaker both great and the ones that gladly deal with the mundane. Ones man boredom is anothers' excitement. 

The one thing I see as a continual rubbing point in the watchmaking world is the EU has no idea about the psyche of Americans and try to impose the EU model here. It can't work - Americans think different and have different goals and expectations of life. Neither is wrong it is just a cultural rift that causes a lot of resentment and issues with manufacturers doing business in the US and how shops are set up.

My 2 cents not adjusted for inflation.


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## JustinD (Apr 6, 2011)

Henry Hatem said:


> I'll try to add my opinion on a few questions that came up.
> 
> RE: case polishing. I agree many watchmakers are deficient in case polishing and more should be added to any curriculum. But with the many brands, styles, materials and shapes without physically having cases to practice on...... you can't train students to be more efficient on the many brands of cases. HOWEVER - you can train a watchmaker to understand the polishing process and be able to apply it to many surfaces and materials so when they get into industry they can have a shorter learning curve on the product.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the good post, Harry. I read an article that described a little about the differences between how things work in Switzerland and that some events had left a bad taste in the mouth of a former student at NSCC. That can article can be read here: A Day in Watch School Part 4: The Changing of the Guard The quote of the section I was talking about:



> The most grueling part of the process for the second year students though was not knowing whether or not they had passed and would receive their diploma and certification until the graduation ceremony itself. While this apparent cruelty is partially the restof of the tests only be graded firecetly beforehand (to minimize the length of stay for the representatives from Switzerland), the reason they could not at least call any students that didn't pass beforehand is lost on me. It left a bitter taste in my mouth to see the one student who did not pass face the news in such a public way, especially as his familyh was present for the graduation ceremony. Apparently this unfortunate occurrence was the result of some misunderstandings. In Switzerland the graduation is very low key with no family or friends present...



As an aside you're mentioned in one of the sections of that article as well. I believe it was in part 5.


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## emso (Jan 14, 2008)

JustinD said:


> Thanks for the good post, Harry. I read an article that described a little about the differences between how things work in Switzerland and that some events had left a bad taste in the mouth of a former student at NSCC. That can article can be read here: A Day in Watch School Part 4: The Changing of the Guard The quote of the section I was talking about:


hi justin

could you tell me if other blog views are available from the author i simply cant find them?

if yes could you post the ink of the homepage with links?

thanks in advance


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## RustyMainspring (Nov 16, 2010)

Wow not knowing until graduation day would have killed me. The real disappointment would have been finding out that a friend didn't pass the test. The first question I asked my instructor when she called to tell me I passed was "did everyone else?" everyone in my class did you really didn't want your friends to fail.


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## JustinD (Apr 6, 2011)

emso said:


> hi justin
> 
> could you tell me if other blog views are available from the author i simply cant find them?
> 
> ...


emso - if you go here: ThePuristS.com Horology and Industry Articles and go the very bottom then you should see six articles titled a Day in Watchmaker's school. It's a pretty good read and gives a pretty good overall picture of some of the things that one would learn.


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

I was there and it was a very "uncomfortable" graduation. The student did return and take the test again I believe but I don't recall whether he passed. The policy was changed in subsequent years so no one was "surprised" at graduation with failing. It was hard enough waiting for a phone call three days after the three day test and being told "YOU PASSED!!!!!!" That was three looooonnnnggg days.


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## RustyMainspring (Nov 16, 2010)

Three days? I got lucky than and found out like 27 hours later. I also got lucky that me and four other classmates killed time playing COD together.


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## milospinkfloyd (Dec 21, 2011)

Hallo to everyone, my name is Milos, I live in Serbia (south Europe, Balcan) and I am glad to join biggest watch forum on Earth!

As I am interested in watches for few years I am considering in educating in that way in my soon future. So, my knowledge about watches is like I know models, brands, news from world of watches and so on, but I have zero experience in watchmaking (I am 22 years old). I am interested in learning about watchmaking so that could be my future job. I have red about wostep which is nearest from my location in Switzerland and I have one main question: Am I able to join wostep full training course (which lasts for 2 years), as I have no watchmaking experience?

In the informations obout participants (source Willkommen bei WOSTEP) there stays: *no watchmaking experience required. *So, am I able to join the course or no?

PS Sorry for my english write and grammar errors


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## emso (Jan 14, 2008)

welcome milos yes no watchmaking experience needed, though wostep will call you to check your abilities to work and handle small parts (dexterity).

if you want professional experience you should enroll wostep.


br
emso


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## dacattoo (Jan 9, 2011)

Wostep in Switzerland, sweet!


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## milospinkfloyd (Dec 21, 2011)

thx for answers, yes I've heard for some kind of exam which tests manual dexterity, for instance I heard that you got on exam some wooden parts and combine them to make some objects, and also that there is a math test. thanks anyway it seems encouraging if I can enroll wostep without opening the case of any watch in my past


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## WilliamT1974 (Nov 20, 2013)

At the risk of opening a can of worms...

Does present company believe that watchmaking is a viable career option and that it's worth it to pursue professional training?

One reason I ask is because people talk about the number of current watchmakers who are getting old and retiring, but also those who leave the profession. Why do they leave? Is it a case of disillusionment with the work they're able to find, or is there not enough work available for them to make a living? Is the profession shrinking with fewer openings in response to those who retire?

All that said, I would still give consideration to pursuing professional training if I could. From where I live, it looks like the closest schools are in either FL or TX. Either one would require relocation. I own my home, and it this time, I would have to sell at a loss if I wanted to sell. This is like seeing the brass ring and not being able to make a grab for it.

Sent from my ADVANCE 4.5 using Tapatalk


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## JustinD (Apr 6, 2011)

Speaking for the United States - there absolutely are numerous openings. The major service centers are always looking for qualified candidates. They may not advertise but once in school you'll be notified of them. For an incomplete sampling of open positions check the AWCI websites under the employment heading.



WilliamT1974 said:


> At the risk of opening a can of worms...
> 
> Does present company believe that watchmaking is a viable career option and that it's worth it to pursue professional training?
> 
> ...


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