# Kingston Sales



## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

I don't know if this is a trend downwards, or just a couple of members who were trying to move their Kingston's super fast, but two plank kit Kingstons have sold on the sales forum in the past couple of days. The first one was 1400.00 USD and sold in a couple of hours, the second one was listed 6 hours ago at 1300.00 USD and is sold. Congratulations to the two lucky new owners. Great watch at a very nice price. Unfortunately, this probably doesn't bode well for those folks who bought high and would like to recoup their purchase price. One on the sales forum now asking 1800.00 USD for a non plank. 
What do you think guys, is this a trend or were these isolated instances of someone putting a price on their watches that would probably insure a fast sale? :think:


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## TroyNVie (Aug 21, 2010)

My honest estimate/opinion is that the equilibrium price is around $1,400 - $1,500. Maybe 10% more for plank kits.


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## powerband (Oct 17, 2008)

The fact that these sold so fast tells me that they were isolated cases for moving the watches quickly. But, at least for me, whether these were mere coincidence or they represent a downward trend, it's hard to say that the Kingston's price of ~$1500 is unjustified for the watch you get relative to others of the same price on the market. As for me, I cannot see selling mine any time soon... it is a long-term watch.

Best,


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

> One on the sales forum now asking 1800.00 USD for a non plank.


I emailed the seller on this one and he sent pictures and information. This is (I think, one of the first) one that started out on the 'bay' auction site at $3400 and eventually sold for $1750 - It's a nice watch, for sure, but not what I would purchase for that price. Non-plank, no extras.

Nice watch, though - price is too high for not my first choice of options. :roll:


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## gonzomantis (Mar 15, 2008)

Don't discount the very real possibility that there are some upright citizens in the community who want to pass along a watch and not feel that they are gouging the new owner. This could be especially true if these are watches that have passed through a few hands and now show some wear (I don't know about these specific case - I haven't looked for the ads).


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## powerband (Oct 17, 2008)

Arthur said:


> ... One on the sales forum now asking 1800.00 USD for a non plank.


And just sold. Didn't appear to be any price adjustment in the sale.


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## TK792 (Dec 11, 2011)

Hi,
That was me and I sold it for $1600.00. Wasn't trying to be greedy, just was hoping to get back what I paid for it. I bought it a little high, so I lost a little. Still a beautiful watch, I just really need the date function and I found I was not wearing it. Too bad. It has sold pending the funds.


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

yeah I think the bubble finally busted.

which is good a thing imo.


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## curt941 (May 3, 2011)

Personally I think $1000 for a non-plank is completely fair, and $1300-1400 for a plank.


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## Jim C. (May 17, 2006)

curt941 said:


> Personally I think $1000 for a non-plank is completely fair, and $1300-1400 for a plank.


Are you buying or selling? ;-)


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

curt941 said:


> Personally I think $1000 for a non-plank is completely fair, and $1300-1400 for a plank.


you may be right, only time will tell. At such time as all 300 are in the hands of their owners, we will see what they are really worth over time. Other considerations are the individual watches condition and configuration. As time goes on, watches that are worn will accumulate bumps and bruises which will have and affect on price. Also, if a particular watch is exactly what you're looking for, you will probably be more willing to pay a premium.

One thing that has probably helped support prices is the fact that the Kingstons have trickled out over a fairly long period of time. Had all 300 been delivered over say 3-4 months, there well could have been a flood of watches on the used market at one time, which would have driven the price down.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *curt941*
> Personally I think $1000 for a non-plank is completely fair, and $1300-1400 for a plank.





Jim C. said:


> Are you buying or selling? ;-)


Sounds to me like he is buying.....;-)

:think: I'd pay $1500 for the right, bare-naked Kingston, with all of the options I'd like. It's all a question of the right price, for the buyer and the seller, and the Value of the watch to each.


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## tomr (Mar 28, 2009)

curt941 said:


> Personally I think $1000 for a non-plank is completely fair, and $1300-1400 for a plank.


This might be wishful thinking. Granted the Plank and Phase 2 owners got a great price, but the last 100 GO's are paying $1000, and the recently announced GMT (PanAm), based on the Kingston platform, are costing $1195 for the first 60 (sold out), and the remaining 190 will be priced at $1395.00. The pricing on the used watch market is closely aligned with the respective prices of the makers new prices. One only has to look at the perennial price increases of Rolex, Omega, IWC, etc, to see how the prices of used models moves respectively. However, I agree with Arthur in that, ultimately, prices will be dictated by availability, condition and demand.


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

One thing that we have to bear in mind is the resale price of most watches is less than the original sales price. Just read thru the listings on the sales forum. With a notable few exceptions, used watches are selling for anywhere from 60-80% of their new price. Probably the lesser known or less popular watches have the lowest resale value. But even well known brands like Omega have a pretty good depreciation factor. The only watches that I have sold for more than I paid for them have been Rolex. Probably because Rolex hasn't been shy about raising their prices, the used market has gone up in step with the new market.
Another thing, the market is based on supply and demand. It doesn't make a bit of difference to the market what you paid for your watch. If it's one that everyone wants, you will sell at a premium, if it's a "dog" you may have to take a big hit to get rid of it.


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## Dragoon (Feb 17, 2006)

Another consideration is the seller's circumstances. Since this is not retail you have to consider the mindset of the seller as this is a closed community to a certain extent. So, some sellers want a watch to stay in the hands of forum members who may not have been so lucky to get in on the original owner..... some sellers may not really NEED the money or want to profit from the watch so will sell at relatively low margins of profit..... and some sellers may be highly motivated and take the first offer.

With these kind of factors, you really do not get a true valuation of the Kingston, yet. It probably will take another year to really see where this watch goes. I doubt it will go into the stratosphere but it has proven to be a gem so far.


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## Fullers1845 (Nov 23, 2008)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> I'd pay $1500 for the right, bare-naked Kingston, with all of the options I'd like. It's all a question of the right price, for the buyer and the seller, and the Value of the watch to each.


This is me exactly. No-date, BWG9, baby!


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## tallguy (Feb 14, 2006)

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the new Raven hits the market at $700 on bracelet.....


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## curt941 (May 3, 2011)

tallguy said:


> It'll be interesting to see what happens when the new Raven hits the market at $700 on bracelet.....


I don't think it will have much of an effect because it's a different style watch.

The kingston is more of a true homage, where as the Raven is more of what I would call a "fantasy homage"

Bigger diameter, big hands, lumed bezel insert, etc.


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## justsellbrgs (Jan 31, 2008)

Fullers1845 said:


> This is me exactly. No-date, BWG9, baby!


I'll keep you in mind Mr. Fullers....


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## Fullers1845 (Nov 23, 2008)

justsellbrgs said:


> I'll keep you in mind Mr. Fullers....


Too late, Bro!


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## Fullers1845 (Nov 23, 2008)

curt941 said:


> I don't think it will have much of an effect because it's a different style watch.
> 
> The kingston is more of a true homage, where as the Raven is more of what I would call a "fantasy homage"
> 
> Bigger diameter, big hands, lumed bezel insert, etc.


That's a great term, "fantasy homage." I agree regarding the Raven. I'd throw the Kemmner 007 in the fantasy camp as well.

Now to find a term for the distressed mod that strips the watch of all its WR and lume in quest of the Vintage look. Ncmoto has an Orient 2ER "big crown" sub like this he posts in the DWF daily wrist threads from time to time.

Vintagisation galore.


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## curt941 (May 3, 2011)

I personally am a fan of fantasy homages. I like blending modern with vintage.


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## justsellbrgs (Jan 31, 2008)

Fullers1845 said:


> Too late, Bro!


LOL.... I'm on 3 years for a Plank2.... I was actually early.


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

tallguy said:


> It'll be interesting to see what happens when the new Raven hits the market at $700 on bracelet.....


I like that watch but I am not sure if it will change the value of the Kingston. I love the domed crystal on it though.


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## martin_blank (May 19, 2010)

I doubt the level of trueness in a homage piece is really that relevant. I mean people who want the real thing will seek it out and the rest of us go in understanding there will very real "fantasy" elements at play whether it's mkII or raven.


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

On a slightly different note, I spent a rainy afternoon yesterday, looking over the sales forum. i frequently search "Kingston" just to get an idea of what's for sale. Looking over the search pages, I decided to tally up all the Kingston's that have been listed on the sales forum. I was amazed that since the first ones were delivered, a total of 38 have been listed and sold. Considering that several have sold on Ebay, and a few more on other forum sales sites such as TZ and the military Watch "post Exchange", the total surely is north of 40 watches. What I find so amazing is that the Kingston has been so highly publicized, and so coveted my so many, yet with a total of less than 200 watches it hasn't "resonated " with quite a few folks. From what I can see, over 20% of the total have been sold, some of course are now with the second owner. Not having mine in hand yet, I really don't know why it has not been a "keeper" for such a large group of buyers.


It would be interesting to hear what others think about the number of watches that have been sold. I know that a lot can happen between deposit and delivery, especially when the time frame is measured in years rather than months, weeks or days. Things change, interests and taste changes, financial considerations, what do you think?


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## sunster (Apr 17, 2007)

Opinions and attitudes change with time....mine is apparently due to arrive at my door soon. It's going to have to knock my socks off for me to keep it given my own buying experience of this. I'll post my views when it arrives don't worry


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

sunster said:


> Opinions and attitudes change with time....mine is apparently due to arrive at my door soon. It's going to have to knock my socks off for me to keep it given my own buying experience of this. I'll post my views when it arrives don't worry


I believe that you may have "hit the nail on the head" with your post. From the looks of some of the offerings on the sales forum, ,i.e. " haven't opened the box, unworn, tried on but never worn outside, etc., there were a significant number of folks that had lost interest completely in the watch. I have "Flipped" a lot of watches, but I always tried to like them, at least wore them for a few weeks just to see if they grew on me, if the initial reaction to them wasn't what I expected.However these were all watches that once I made the decision to buy, or found one at the right price were in my hand in a matter of days. As much as I hate to say it, I think your experience has not been unique. When the time from deposit to delivery gets up to a couple of years, the average person is not going to be happy. If over time your go from just unhappy to really angry, then no matter what, you aren't going to be made happy. If folks associate the Kingston with a long period of angst and unhappiness, either real or imagined, they are going to look at the watch as the source of the problem and consequently get rid of it. Of course, the fact that the Kingston was in such demand that the owner could post it on the sales forum and easily sell it for 2-3 times what he paid for it, didn't help at all with "maybe I'll keep it around for a while and see if I can get to like it".

In this age of instant gratification it isn't easy to be patient. Back in the day when everything was a custom one off piece, folks were attuned to long waits. Today, you can buy something on the other side of the world, and if you're willing to pay the freight, you can have it on your doorstep the next day. I got into the Kingston deal really late. I missed out on the 1st and 2nd stage orders, and got into the GO. Maybe that's a good thing, as I have had patience problems in the past, being a certified type A personality!!

I truly hope you fall in love with the Kingston when it arrives. I think that it is a really unique, quality watch at a very good price point. If not, it's nice to know that you can sell it easily, for a profit and make some other person happy.

Arthur


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## Dragoon (Feb 17, 2006)

I think you make some valid points but also think the Kingston has created its own micro climate in regards to flipping.

As sunster pointed out...many folks have soured on the Kingston experience. Not saying this as a qualitative "judgement" but, of course we all wanted the Kingston to get in our hands without the lengthy delay. So, that is what has soured some folks.

I think the $$$ valuation of the piece also is a great incentive in the turnover. Not too ofter you can get a 100% increease from purchase price.

I havent heard many negative comments concerning the watch itself. A few timing issues post shipment or down the road and some bracelet comments. I think in general the response has been overwhelmingly positive.



Arthur said:


> On a slightly different note, I spent a rainy afternoon yesterday, looking over the sales forum. i frequently search "Kingston" just to get an idea of what's for sale. Looking over the search pages, I decided to tally up all the Kingston's that have been listed on the sales forum. I was amazed that since the first ones were delivered, a total of 38 have been listed and sold. Considering that several have sold on Ebay, and a few more on other forum sales sites such as TZ and the military Watch "post Exchange", the total surely is north of 40 watches. What I find so amazing is that the Kingston has been so highly publicized, and so coveted my so many, yet with a total of less than 200 watches it hasn't "resonated " with quite a few folks. From what I can see, over 20% of the total have been sold, some of course are now with the second owner. Not having mine in hand yet, I really don't know why it has not been a "keeper" for such a large group of buyers.
> 
> It would be interesting to hear what others think about the number of watches that have been sold. I know that a lot can happen between deposit and delivery, especially when the time frame is measured in years rather than months, weeks or days. Things change, interests and taste changes, financial considerations, what do you think?


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## powerband (Oct 17, 2008)

Dragoon said:


> I think the $$$ valuation of the piece also is a great incentive in the turnover. Not too ofter you can get a 100% increease from puirchase price.


:-! Statistically the simplest answer is the most accurate answer.


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## MHe225 (Jan 24, 2010)

Arthur, thank you for pulling the data together - it's something I sort of wanted to do, but never found the time to actually do it. I think the situation is more grave then you picture it - anybody feel free to correct me if you think my interpretation is wrong. 
There are a few more places where Kingstons have been sold (e.g. UK sites) and reading that the ones currently being shipped are sub 120 in the line-up, leads me to believe that the percentage of Kingstons that have been flipped is more in the 30 - 40 percent range ......

As you, Dragoon and powerband have suggested, the Kingston's ROI, though maybe not the reason, definitely is a big incentive to flip the watch. If people weren't even able to recover the original purchase price (as with most purchases), I think most, if not all, would have tried harder to like and enjoy the watch. Personally, I don't buy in to the argument of changed taste (maybe for very few), but do see how the long wait has soured the experience for many and robbed them of their joy for the Kingston.

The wait for (future) GO-owners is indeed shorter (by design) but still requires a lot of patience and falls far outside the instant gratification window. I just checked: I got on the list and made my first down-payment already 21 months ago. We're getting glimpses of the finish-line, though and I do hope that Mr. Yao indeed manages to get all Kingstons out of the door before the end of the year (2012 that is).

But the Kingston has taught us a lesson in patience. Co-participants in the Forum Project (watch) in the Chinese Mechanical Watches corner are already getting impatient: the design was finalized mid November and the proto-type was unveiled yesterday. To me -and probably all Kingstonians- that's fast ;-)

RonB


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

A "fantasy homage"??? Maybe a more updated version, where the King is more of a straight up copy.


curt941 said:


> I don't think it will have much of an effect because it's a different style watch.
> 
> The kingston is more of a true homage, where as the Raven is more of what I would call a "fantasy homage"
> 
> Bigger diameter, big hands, lumed bezel insert, etc.


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## Dent99 (Jun 25, 2008)

I understand that people who have been soured by the delays. I understand people who are tempted to make more than they paid. But I don't think these people ever _*really*_ wanted to own a Kingston in the first place. Or certainly not for the long haul.

Which only leaves one reason for all the selling we've been seeing: classic serial flipper behaviour. I think that is the real nail on the head, even if I do say so myself. Flippers flip watches. If they can make some money while doing it what's going to stop them?

The Kingston for all its forum input, classic design, painstaking assembly and fantastic quality will only ever have been a flavour of the month for a great many. 3 years ago it was the greatest, latest thing from Bill Yao but a lot of other products can tease the fickle attentions of those who think nothing of flipping any watch at a moments notice. The Kingston is no different to ANY other watch - it always was and always will be an item for whom a passing fancy is too hard to resist. So when the proverbial hit the fan and the delivery dates went over 2+ years, those people who were never committed to owning this watch will shuffle it on and happily pocket the extra change. Sure maybe some were dissapointed with the product, and fair enough if that is the case, but I would imagine those cases are very few and far between.

I did breifly flirt with the idea of selling mine (back when I could have used the money) but I never really wanted to relinquish my order and I am so glad I stuck with it, that would have been a real regret for this watch fan.

So I persevered and I got a bit annoyed with all the delays but even having never ordered a watch (or any product for that matter) with a long lead time I never worried about the status of the project. Bill has a stellar reputation and I never worried about what was happening with my money or the quality of the goods I would eventually recieve. 
To get this level or workmanship for $700/£450 and to get a moden amazing quality homage of one of the best Rolex Submariner's ever was a deal I could never pass up. This watch, because of what it is, and what it homages, and who made it for me, is a watch I can't ever see myself letting go of, especially when the only other alternative is a £30k original. Then again maybe I am just weird and only buy watches I actually want to keep/own? It often feels that way!


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## MHe225 (Jan 24, 2010)

Dent99 said:


> ...... I am just weird and only buy watches I actually want to keep/own .....


Just when you think you've seen it all ..... Man, you are really weird!!

;-)

Thanks for this post; it is good to know I'm not the only one.

RonB


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

Dent99 said:


> I understand that people who have been soured by the delays. I understand people who are tempted to make more than they paid. But I don't think these people ever _*really*_ wanted to own a Kingston in the first place. Or certainly not for the long haul.
> 
> Which only leaves one reason for all the selling we've been seeing: classic serial flipper behaviour. I think that is the real nail on the head, even if I do say so myself. Flippers flip watches. If they can make some money while doing it what's going to stop them?
> 
> ...


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## Quartersawn (Nov 20, 2008)

Dent99 said:


> I understand that people who have been soured by the delays. I understand people who are tempted to make more than they paid. But I don't think these people ever _*really*_ wanted to own a Kingston in the first place.


That's a bit unfair. I *really* did want to own a Kingston when I put my deposit down on March 2, 2009 with an anticipated Q1 2010 delivery. When I finally got the Kingston in Dec 2011 I learned that _I would have to wait another 60 days_ to get my parts kit - I was so frustrated I could've kicked a puppy. After a couple of inquiring emails the parts kit arrived last Monday - exactly 4 days before the 3 year anniversary of my initial order.

I suppose its a nice watch - I haven't worn mine so I can't say for sure. I just know I'm not cut out for the pre-order process.


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

Saxon007 said:


> That's a bit unfair. I *really* did want to own a Kingston when I put my deposit down on March 2, 2009 with an anticipated Q1 2010 delivery. When I finally got the Kingston in Dec 2011 I learned that _I would have to wait another 60 days_ to get my parts kit - I was so frustrated I could've kicked a puppy. After a couple of inquiring emails the parts kit arrived last Monday - exactly 4 days before the 3 year anniversary of my initial order.
> 
> I suppose its a nice watch - I haven't worn mine so I can't say for sure. I just know I'm not cut out for the pre-order process.


Did you need tha parts kit?


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

White Tuna said:


> Did you need tha parts kit?


I don't think it's a question of whether or not he needed the parts kit, but the frustration that comes from waiting, and waiting and waiting and then when it finally is delivered, it's not complete.

Have you ever bought anything that had to be shipped and after all the anticipation, the package arrives and it's damaged, or you open it only to find that something is missing. Even if what you bought is usable, or the missing screws can be gotten very easily at your local hardware store, you're still not happy. I believe the frustration comes from the uncertainty of not knowing where you stand. I have waited longer than the wait on the Kingston for custom knives as well as a couple of old shotguns I had restored. The difference was the person I was dealing with told me upfront in no uncertain terms, what the wait would be. Every one of them told me that the wait period would be from 6 months to 3 years. At that point I had to make a decision as to whether or not I was willing to wait. In each case I did, and to be honest, I didn't think about any of them very much until maybe a few weeks or a month or two before they were ready. One advantage, there wasn't a forum on the internet to drop in on every day. I was in the dark, so to speak, whereas here the forum members sort of fed on each others anxiety and frustrations. I believe that this makes things much worse, as the subject of your angst is brought up every day.

What is pretty interesting to me is the reaction of some of the members on the forum. The folks who have owned other MKII's and bought into the Kingston project, even though some became frustrated, have pretty much stayed around and are in either the Project 300, the Pan AM, or both. On the other hand, quite a few of the most vocal members got their watches and have never been heard from since. Possibly a lot of those folks have sold their Kingston, others got it liked it, but either way haven't been heard from since.

I think that their is a valuable lesson to be learned from the Kingston project, by everyone. I believe that Bill realized that the delivery schedule he was proposing was far too optimistic. Too many option combinations, shipping back and forth to Switzerland, etc. created a monster. On top of this, it looks like practically every watch had to be disassembled and redone. It makes for a wonderful watch, but it plays havoc with scheduling. On the customer side, I believe that some folks realized that they just weren't cut out for projects that stretched out into the future, just as Saxon007 has admitted. How can this be remedied in the future? I don't know, but I would guess that Bill realized that a more realistic schedule is in the best interest of everyone, and customers should know up front approximately when they can expect to receive their watch. For those who can't wait, their only alternative is to find something else that they can get sooner, or pick one up on the secondary market, which in this case was more expensive. Those folks didn't have one bit of anxiety or frustration, but it came at a price.


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

Arthur said:


> I don't think it's a question of whether or not he needed the parts kit, butthe frustration that comes from waiting, and waiting and waiting and then whenit finally is delivered, it's not complete.


It was MYquestion wasn't it? Or are you debatingme on what I asked? Also, I was notaware he did not get a complete watch. That would be frustrating. 



Arthur said:


> Have you ever bought anything that had to be shipped and after all theanticipation, the package arrives and it's damaged, or you open it only to findthat something is missing.


This happens tome fairly often with items of varying costs and availability. I thought it was part of growing up? Maybe I am being persecuted and do not knowit? 


Arthur said:


> Even if what you bought is usable, or themissing screws can be gotten very easily at your local hardware store, you'restill not happy. I believe the frustration comes from the uncertainty of notknowing where you stand. I have waited longer than the wait on the Kingston for customknives as well as a couple of old shotguns I had restored. The difference wasthe person I was dealing with told me upfront in no uncertain terms, what thewait would be. Every one of them told me that the wait period would be from 6months to 3 years. At that point I had to make a decision as to whether or notI was willing to wait. In each case I did, and to be honest, I didn't thinkabout any of them very much until maybe a few weeks or a month or two beforethey were ready. One advantage, there wasn't a forum on the internet to drop inon every day. I was in the dark, so to speak, whereas here the forum memberssort of fed on each others anxiety and frustrations. I believe that this makesthings much worse, as the subject of your angst is brought up every day.



I have waitedover a year for pairs of shoes and may or may not currently be on the list fora pair of boots that I really want. Iwas put on the wait list for the boots over a year ago. I am not even sure if the horse is deadyet. 



Arthur said:


> What is pretty interesting to me is the reaction of some of the members on theforum. The folks who have owned other MKII's and bought into the Kingstonproject, even though some became frustrated, have pretty much stayed around andare in either the Project 300, the Pan AM, or both. On the other hand, quite afew of the most vocal members got their watches and have never been heard fromsince. Possibly a lot of those folks have sold their Kingston, others got it liked it, but eitherway haven't been heard from since.


Well I stoppedreading the site for a while because of all of the negative and whiney commentsand what I felt was poor moderation that encouraged it. I have pretty much returned for the Pan Amand am happy it is finally on the distant horizon. Also except for a few posters the site seemsmore positive and the pictures are fantastic. 


Arthur said:


> I think thattheir is a valuable lesson to be learned from the Kingston project, by everyone. I believe thatBill realized that the delivery schedule he was proposing was far toooptimistic. Too many option combinations, shipping back and forth to Switzerland,etc. created a monster. On top of this, it looks like practically every watchhad to be disassembled and redone. It makes for a wonderful watch, but it playshavoc with scheduling. On the customer side, I believe that some folks realizedthat they just weren't cut out for projects that stretched out into the future,just as Saxon007 has admitted. How can this be remedied in the future? I don'tknow, but I would guess that Bill realized that a more realistic schedule is inthe best interest of everyone, and customers should know up front approximatelywhen they can expect to receive their watch. For those who can't wait, theironly alternative is to find something else that they can get sooner, or pickone up on the secondary market, which in this case was more expensive. Thosefolks didn't have one bit of anxiety or frustration, but it came at a price.



I look at allof these things you mention as problems as another reason to want my watchmore. If I wanted a watch today I couldbuy a Timex or an Omega but I am looking for something that will be moreexclusive. Do I want my Kingston now? Heck yeah,but I am not going to complain every time I get a chance because I don't haveit. The vast majority of people do not do this and I would feel ashamed if I did.


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## Jim C. (May 17, 2006)

The Raven Vintage is available as of today.

Raven Watches | Vintage Series


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## cpotters (Jan 29, 2009)

Saxon007 said:


> I suppose its a nice watch - I haven't worn mine so I can't say for sure. I just know I'm not cut out for the pre-order process.


Really? You really haven't worn it? Ever? Wow, you have more will power than I have patience.

You clearly, and understandably, must be so frustrated with the project and all the delays that you don't even want to look at it, and are probably just trying to finally decide if you should just sell it and be done with the whole thing, and don't want to screw it up in that event by wearing it when right now it's MNIB.

Here's what I propose: leave everything in the case except the watch. CAREFULLY take it off its bracelet, then just throw it on a plain leather strap (nothing fancy, but black leather works well). Gently peel off the plastic protecting the crystal (and save it to be re-applied shortly) and then - simply - wear it. Just wear it gently around the house over the weekend. No scratches, no dings, no yardwork. Nothing. Just put it on your wrist (because you've certainly earned the right to do that in my book) and road test it.

If - by Sunday night - you're still ambivalent about keeping it, take off the leather strap, replace the plastic film on the crystal, reinstall the bracelet (carefully), put everything back in the box, then list it on the Sales Forum on Monday. One thing about the Kingston, regardless of people's buying experience: it is a watch that folks have gotten very passionate about, and once you wear it you will - simply - either love it or you won't.

I'd be curious if you follow through with this suggestion, and what your final analysis is. There are no right or wrong decisions here, just a question of choice. If you lived close enough to me I'd lend you mine for the weekend to accomplish the same thing. Hope it all works out. If nothing else, if I ever need help sticking to my diet, I may be messaging you for will power tips.


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## Quartersawn (Nov 20, 2008)

There was no will power involved, I just lost interest in it. I've picked up a few Tudor subs (and flipped one) since I ordered the Kingston, they pretty much scratch that itch.


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## cpotters (Jan 29, 2009)

Saxon007 said:


> There was no will power involved, I just lost interest in it. I've picked up a few Tudor subs (and flipped one) since I ordered the Kingston, they pretty much scratch that itch.


I get the itch and scratch thing. I insist there's still willpower there, though: if I got a new backscratcher sitting on my table, I gotta give it a try. I can't resist.


----------



## Dent99 (Jun 25, 2008)

Dent99 said:


> I understand that people who have been soured by the delays. I understand people who are tempted to make more than they paid. But I don't think these people ever _*really*_ wanted to own a Kingston in the first place. Or certainly not for the long haul.
> 
> Which only leaves one reason for all the selling we've been seeing: classic serial flipper behaviour. I think that is the real nail on the head, even if I do say so myself. Flippers flip watches. If they can make some money while doing it what's going to stop them?
> 
> The Kingston for all its forum input, classic design, painstaking assembly and fantastic quality will only ever have been a flavour of the month for a great many. 3 years ago it was the greatest, latest thing from Bill Yao but a lot of other products can tease the fickle attentions of those who think nothing of flipping any watch at a moments notice. The Kingston is no different to ANY other watch - it always was and always will be an item for whom a passing fancy is too hard to resist. So when the proverbial hit the fan and the delivery dates went over 2+ years, those people who were never committed to owning this watch will shuffle it on and happily pocket the extra change. Sure maybe some were dissapointed with the product, and fair enough if that is the case, but I would imagine those cases are very few and far between.





Saxon007 said:


> That's a bit unfair. I *really* did want to own a Kingston when I put my deposit down on March 2, 2009 with an anticipated Q1 2010 delivery. When I finally got the Kingston in Dec 2011 I learned that _I would have to wait another 60 days_ to get my parts kit - I was so frustrated I could've kicked a puppy. After a couple of inquiring emails the parts kit arrived last Monday - exactly 4 days before the 3 year anniversary of my initial order.
> 
> I suppose its a nice watch - I haven't worn mine so I can't say for sure. I just know I'm not cut out for the pre-order process.





Saxon007 said:


> There was no will power involved, I just lost interest in it. I've picked up a few Tudor subs (and flipped one) since I ordered the Kingston, they pretty much scratch that itch.


You can call me unfair, but given everything you just wrote, you're fitting my reasoning almost perfectly:

- You ordered a watch a couple of years ago when you really wanted it
- You got soured by delays (which don't change the attributes of the product and therefore should not make you want the product any less)
- You 'suppose' its a nice watch (can't even be bothered to decide if you like it - sounds like you did _really _want it!)
- You've lost interest when you've barely had it two minutes
- A couple of other watches (one of which has been flipped) has 'scratched an itch' for which the Kingston was intended

As I said, sounds like you _really_ wanted this one.


----------



## HomeMadeLookingBoutiqueSh (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm just here to tell everyone who doesn't like my watch what their problem is: hostility, delusions of grandeur, & possibly hallucinations. Also Freudian issues. _

Psychoanalyzed!
_


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

Arthur said,


> I truly hope you fall in love with the Kingston when it arrives. I think that it is a really unique, quality watch at a very good price point. If not, it's nice to know that you can sell it easily, for a profit and *make some other person happy*.


 *Thats how I now have L34-163/300. (I'm happy) *b-)

cpotters said,


> One thing about the Kingston, regardless of people's buying experience: it is a watch that folks have gotten very passionate about, and once you wear it you will - simply - either love it or you won't.


|> _*Trying to find the words to describe how the gilt dial interplays with light - it's extraordinarily remarkable!*_

Dent99 said,


> To get this level or workmanship for $700/£450 and to get a modern amazing quality homage of one of the best Rolex Submariner's ever was a deal I could never pass up. This watch, because of what it is, and what it homages, and who made it for me, is a watch I can't ever see myself letting go of, especially when the only other alternative is a £30k original. Then again maybe I am just weird and only buy watches I actually want to keep/own? It often feels that way!


:-d It's comforting to know I'm not the only one!

:think: The photography around here has been so good lately, that I'm somewhat reluctant to post my efforts, but pictures will come..._ (but as good as the pictures have been, they haven't captured that magical interplay between the gilt dial and the light - you just have to wear it and appreciate it in person.)_

For sunster and Saxon007, I really hope that you like your Kingstons.

I really like my new watch - I can't see myself letting this one go.

-Best to all.


----------



## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

Man those are some pretty powerful backscratchers!! Beautiful watches.


----------



## sunster (Apr 17, 2007)

Goodness gracious me....there's so much psycho-analysis going on here one could almost write a psychology thesis on it....what motivates people to pre-order a watch....what are the expectations at time of order....what happens when there are delays.....what parts of a transaction lead to satisfaction etc etc...all these questions and answers are multifactorial and we could stay here and argue our individual answers ins and outs for each. Likewise there are reasons we still partake in the forum which hopefully is because of our interest in watches.
For my own experience I'll use an analogy (not real)
There was a movie star I really really fancied as a teenager..then when I grew up there was the opportunity for me to go out with another girl who look exactly liked this movie star. Of course I loved the look of this girl, and made enquiries as to how I could get to know her better. I then made the step to give her my number knowing it might take a little while for her to get back to me. However I waited ...and waited... recieved a few excuses for the delay from her friends....got frustrated and moved on.....then I decided to get on with it and date other girls eventually developing a relationship with one. Then a few years down the line I get a random call from this girl again saying she wants to meet up at last....
Of course a bit out of context however every man may react in different ways...they may decide to meet this girl and see how it goes after all one lusted for her a few years ago....one may meet but knows the feeling is gone being in a relationship with another, or one may be digusted and turned off altogether. 

Well I'm meeting up with this woman this afternoon (my Kingston)...so It'll be interesting to see if the feeling is rekindled


----------



## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

Mine should be here today.


----------



## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

Sorry If you thought I was out of place with my post.I wasn't trying to start a debate. Pretty much the point I was trying to make was the frustration level a fair number of folks felt, in my opinion made them dislike the watch to the point that they didn't want it. Possibly just wearing it brought back all the bad feelings they had during the wait, who knows. Everyone is wired a little differently. 

I guess the gist of the whole thing and the reason I started this thread initially was/is the inordinately high number of Kingstons that have come up for sale on WUS and other forums. It just seemed to me that here is a watch that generated such excitement, and was so desirable, yet when it arrived it went out the door almost as fast as it went in. From a strictly marketing standpoint, It's useful for MKII to have an idea as to why this happened, if only to keep the customers happy. The probability is that the folks who soured on the Kingston won't get back into another project watch.Every business owner would like to keep his customers happy, they will come back as well as sell the business to others. I feel like Bill wants happy watch buyers, and I'm sure he has some concerns as to why so many have been flipped.


----------



## Quartersawn (Nov 20, 2008)

Dent99 said:


> You can call me unfair, but given everything you just wrote, you're fitting my reasoning almost perfectly:


I suppose I should clarify that I found the statement "But I don't think these people ever _*really*_ wanted to own a Kingston in the first place" the unfair part. Desires and expectations change over time. Some grow stronger and some die. To suggest that those who have sold the watch because they never wanted it is simply incorrect IMO.



> - You got soured by delays (which don't change the attributes of the product and therefore should not make you want the product any less)
> - You 'suppose' its a nice watch (can't even be bothered to decide if you like it - sounds like you did _really _want it!)
> - You've lost interest when you've barely had it two minutes


I lost interest in it 18 months before I got it. I purchased other watches that satisfied the niche the unavailable (at that time) Kingston was to have filled.

I do flip watches although I doubt I would be the poster boy of the "serial watch flipper", lol. I did get a kick out of that description.


----------



## GregoryD (Jan 31, 2009)

Saxon007 said:


> I suppose I should clarify that I found the statement "But I don't think these people ever _*really*_ wanted to own a Kingston in the first place" the unfair part. Desires and expectations change over time. Some grow stronger and some die. To suggest that those who have sold the watch because they never wanted it is simply incorrect IMO.
> 
> I lost interest in it 18 months before I got it. I purchased other watches that satisfied the niche the unavailable (at that time) Kingston was to have filled.
> 
> I do flip watches although I doubt I would be the poster boy of the "serial watch flipper", lol. I did get a kick out of that description.


This is pretty much what happened to me; my tastes just changed a bit while I was waiting for the Kingston. When I got it I was very impressed with it, and I did wear it couple of times, but I knew in my heart that it just wasn't going to work - my interests had moved to other watches.

Full disclosure: I am a serial watch flipper - of the 30+ watches I've owned over the last few years, I've flipped every single one.


----------



## tomr (Mar 28, 2009)

To add a perspective from another owner of a recently received Kingston - it was a gamble from the start, regardless of when the watch was to be delivered, as I had never before purchased a watch before trying it on first. Numerous times I have been attracted to a watch based upon its design, legacy and some great photos only to find that upon placing it on my wrist, it either didn't feel or look as good as in my imagination of wearing it. Since receiving my Kingston, I can attest to its superb quality - Bill is a true artist and master of his craft. However, in the end, each individual must determine if the watch meets his or her expectations, which will, ultimately, determine its outcome.


----------



## powerband (Oct 17, 2008)

Another just sold today, with listed price being $1850. I almost bought it as a 2nd Kingston, but decided that my daughter needs to eat.

Best,


----------



## Dragoon (Feb 17, 2006)

That is a very good comparison. Probably the best I have heard and done in a true Irish storytelling style!

Did you meet the girl? :-d:-d:-d (Just kidding...really ....I am!)



sunster said:


> Goodness gracious me....there's so much psycho-analysis going on here one could almost write a psychology thesis on it....what motivates people to pre-order a watch....what are the expectations at time of order....what happens when there are delays.....what parts of a transaction lead to satisfaction etc etc...all these questions and answers are multifactorial and we could stay here and argue our individual answers ins and outs for each. Likewise there are reasons we still partake in the forum which hopefully is because of our interest in watches.
> For my own experience I'll use an analogy (not real)
> There was a movie star I really really fancied as a teenager..then when I grew up there was the opportunity for me to go out with another girl who look exactly liked this movie star. Of course I loved the look of this girl, and made enquiries as to how I could get to know her better. I then made the step to give her my number knowing it might take a little while for her to get back to me. However I waited ...and waited... recieved a few excuses for the delay from her friends....got frustrated and moved on.....then I decided to get on with it and date other girls eventually developing a relationship with one. Then a few years down the line I get a random call from this girl again saying she wants to meet up at last....
> Of course a bit out of context however every man may react in different ways...they may decide to meet this girl and see how it goes after all one lusted for her a few years ago....one may meet but knows the feeling is gone being in a relationship with another, or one may be digusted and turned off altogether.
> ...


----------



## Semuta (Feb 5, 2009)

It's a good comparison, except that, generally, most men only have one girl and a harem of watches.


----------



## sunster (Apr 17, 2007)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> Sounds to me like he is buying.....;-)
> 
> :think: I'd pay $1500 for the right, bare-naked Kingston, with all of the options I'd like. It's all a question of the right price, for the buyer and the seller, and the Value of the watch to each.


What options would you lie?
A good friend and fellow forumer just sold his for the asking price. Appears there are still people willing to pay a bit more for the Kingston


----------



## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

sunster said:


> What options would you lie?
> A good friend and fellow forumer just sold his for the asking price. Appears there are still people willing to pay a bit more for the Kingston


I don't even know if my ideal Kingston is possible - No date, gilt hands and dial, C3 Lume and red-triangle bezel with no minute divisions on the first quadrant - Yours is 'close' - and a beauty!

In the meantime, another forum member and I started a conversation over his - In the long-wait-time, he acquired several other really nice watches. In the end we came to an agreement, and after an offer that I couldn't pass up, I ended up as the very happy and satisfied owner of L34-163/300. I'm wearing it now.

Here it is....


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## Fullers1845 (Nov 23, 2008)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> I don't even know if my ideal Kingston is possible - No date, gilt hands and dial, C3 Lume and red-triangle bezel with no minute divisions on the first quadrant - Yours is 'close' - and a beauty!
> 
> In the meantime, another forum member and I started a conversation over his - In the long-wait-time, he acquired several other really nice watches. In the end we came to an agreement, and after an offer that I couldn't pass up, I ended up as the very happy and satisfied owner of L34-163/300. I'm wearing it now.
> 
> Here it is....


Ace!


----------



## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*

I was killing a little time last night, went over to the sales forum to see if any more Kingstons had been or were up for sale. I was amazed!! in the past week, six plank watches have been posted for sale. Several have sold, but there were some still up for sale as of last night. I really find that a large number. Prices were from 1450.00 USD for a used plank kit to 1950.00 USD for one that had only been unwrapped for photos. Considering that 198 kingstons have been delivered, according to Bill. (Updated before he went to BaselWorld) With these six, it looks like over 50 watches have changed hands, if you count all of those that sold on other forums, Ebay, etc. looks like 44 on WUS alone. Interestingly all that were/or for sale this week are plank watches, and only one of those was described as a 2nd stage plank with parts kit. That's around 25% of the Kingstons sold thus far.

I have a theory about these that are coming on the sales forum now. Just my idea, so don't crucify me!!. I would say that the majority of us here on the forum are "Flippers" maybe not serial "Flippers, but folks who don't develop a real attachment to most of our watches. Probably no more so that you develop an emotional attachment to a car, boat, or any other inanimate object. Basically we are like the girl who can't tell the difference between "Mr Right and Mr Right Now" Pretty much all our watches are "Mr Right Now", we love them when we get them, but over time something else comes along that strikes our fancy, and the next thing you know, it's out with the old, in with the new. I have definitely experienced that feeling. I have watches in my watchbox that were daily wearers 2,3,4 or more years ago. Today, some of them hardly ever see the light of day. I have a core group that have either sentimental value, or if sold they would be too costly to replace down the line, those I will keep, but others are expendable, at least under certain conditions. Now, where does the Kingston fit into this theory? Well, considering that the first planks were being delivered about now last year, and most of the 1st stage have been in the hands of their owners for at least several months, I believe that for some folks, who by and large were very enthusiastic about their Kingston, have over time found other interesting watches that are calling to them. Most of us unfortunately, cannot sustain our watch addiction without periodically cleaning out some of the old to make way for the new. I believe that in some cases the Kingston has reached that stage. Another facet of this has to do with prices. A 1st stage plank owner with a really nice clean Kingston can probably at the least double his money on a sale. Not knowing what the future holds, possibly folks feel like now is a good time, before a lot of non plank watches hit the sales forums and drive prices down.

It would be interesting to hear some of the stories that folks who have gotten rid of their Kingston could relate. I'm sure their are a myriad of reasons that folks sell, but one thing I feel is the Kingston lacks, at least for some owners, what it takes to become one of those "core group" watches that folks say, I'll never sell these.

What do you think?


----------



## marchone (Dec 20, 2007)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*

Very informative thread overall. Though I don't sell watches; I break 'em. Seriously. I have a box full of them that need various repairs.

To the uninformed newbie here, what is a "Plank Kit"? Extra parts like bezel, straps, springbars, etc.? If so, why "plank"?


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## MHe225 (Jan 24, 2010)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*



Arthur said:


> ...... Another facet of this has to do with prices. A 1st stage plank owner with a really nice clean Kingston can probably at the least double his money on a sale .....
> 
> What do you think?


Call me a cynic, but this is the root cause, I think. When was the last time we made 100% in less than 3 years on our investment(s)? If Kingstons were selling right at the original sales price or, say, 20% below, I doubt that many would be changing hands. People would try a little harder to love them. Sales are always stronger when the market is up.

I must say that it "pains" me to see so many for sale, I get tired of some of the "stories and the whining" and the waiting is getting old. Yet, when my Kingston arrives, hopefully before the end of this calendar year, I know I'm going to love it, enjoy it, wear it and *not* sell it.

RonB


----------



## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*



marchone said:


> Very informative thread overall. Though I don't sell watches; I break 'em. Seriously. I have a box full of them that need various repairs.
> 
> To the uninformed newbie here, what is a "Plank Kit"? Extra parts like bezel, straps, springbars, etc.? If so, why "plank"?


When Bill proposed the Kingston, it was probably MKII's first "project" watch. In that I mean, forum members were encouraged to add their input to the design of the Kingston. At some point in time when it was ready to move from the concept stage to a real watch, Bill offered the first 100 buyers and incentive. The first 100 or "Plank' owners would receive as a bonus a 2nd case, bracelet, dial/hands, bezel. Essentially everything to build a second watch except a caseback, movement and movement holder. It was a great deal. The second stage buyers got the option for the parts kit, but it was extra. the third stage buyers did not get an option to buy a parts kit.

Here is the wikipedia definition of plankowner: Plankowner is a term used by the United States Navy,[SUP][1][/SUP] and has consequently been variously defined by different units. The origin of the term is the implication that a crew member was around when the ship was being built and commissioned, and therefore has bragging rights to the "ownership" of one of the planks in the main deck.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP]Historically, a plankowner in the United States Navy and United States Coast Guard, or his widow, could petition the Naval Historical Center's Curator Branch for a piece of the deck when the ship was decommissioned.[SUP][3]

[/SUP][SUP]In relation to the Kingston, the plankowners were those aboard for the project from the onset.[/SUP]


----------



## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*



MHe225 said:


> Call me a cynic, but this is the root cause, I think. When was the last time we made 100% in less than 3 years on our investment(s)? If Kingstons were selling right at the original sales price or, say, 20% below, I doubt that many would be changing hands. People would try a little harder to love them. Sales are always stronger when the market is up.
> 
> I must say that it "pains" me to see so many for sale, I get tired of some of the "stories and the whining" and the waiting is getting old. Yet, when my Kingston arrives, hopefully before the end of this calendar year, I know I'm going to love it, enjoy it, wear it and *not* sell it.
> 
> RonB


Ron,
I agree it pains me as well. To me it's really strange, as so many folks, even some who were pretty dissatisfied were still waiting with high hopes and great expectations. 
I believe that the profit factor is a big contributor to the decision to sell. however, most folks who flip watches, will sell one at a loss to get the next "Mr Right Now"!! I know, because I have had the same feeling. If one comes along that really is crying out to you "Buy me,Buy me" You will go through your watchbox and something will go. Generally as I said before, I have a core group of watches that are like the NFL Key players, they are "protected" the rest however are expendable. So now the question becomes, which one's will sell the fastest, and which one's will bring the most return. If you have a Kingston, and it's become expendable, it's at the top of the heap. It will sell fast, and it will bring a good price. It goes. That is a big factor, price is one thing but popularity is another. How many times have you been scrolling through the sales forum and see a watch that's been listed for 4-5 or 6 weeks and the owner has reduced the price a half dozen times.If you need to move one to purchase another, popularity becomes at least as big a factor as price.

I cannot say for sure that the Kingston will become a forever watch for me, but it probably will. It's a pretty incredible watch.


----------



## curt941 (May 3, 2011)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*

So what good is the spare case if you don't have a caseback? Do any other watches casebacks fit?


----------



## Dragoon (Feb 17, 2006)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*

The spare parts are intended for future restoration of the Kingston itself.

Can a duplicate caseback be produced? Yes, but from what another forum member found the cost is around $400 and I dont know that anyone has pursued this avenue or the results of that venture.



curt941 said:


> So what good is the spare case if you don't have a caseback? Do any other watches casebacks fit?


----------



## marchone (Dec 20, 2007)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*

Thanks for the explanation, Arthur. Pretty arcane.


----------



## RCM83 (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*

I just picked up a lnib one from the sales forum here. I probably paid too much but whatever. I'll post my thoughts once I get home and it's waiting for me


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## toxicavenger (May 23, 2009)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*

Sounds like a pretty bold statement when you haven't even received the watch yet. Everyone knows that no matter how much you want to love something some times it doesn't work out in the long run. Good luck in your quest though.


MHe225 said:


> Call me a cynic, but this is the root cause, I think. When was the last time we made 100% in less than 3 years on our investment(s)? If Kingstons were selling right at the original sales price or, say, 20% below, I doubt that many would be changing hands. People would try a little harder to love them. Sales are always stronger when the market is up.
> 
> I must say that it "pains" me to see so many for sale, I get tired of some of the "stories and the whining" and the waiting is getting old. Yet, when my Kingston arrives, hopefully before the end of this calendar year, I know I'm going to love it, enjoy it, wear it and *not* sell it.
> 
> RonB


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## TheGanzman (Jan 12, 2010)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*



toxicavenger said:


> Sounds like a pretty bold statement when you haven't even received the watch yet. Everyone knows that no matter how much you want to love something some times it doesn't work out in the long run. Good luck in your quest though.


Yeah - at 56 years old, I've got about THREE things TOTAL that I "swore I'd never sell" that I actually DIDN'T sell - two of them are my childhood teddy bears, LOL! Let's face it - when it comes to "things", we're all just "curators" - I haven't seen a hearse YET with a trailer hitch on it! Ya' keep a thing until that thing "doesn't do it for you" anymore; someone just HAS to have it MORE than you do; you see something you (think you) want MORE than the thing you said you'd never sell; or it gets lost, stolen, or given away - that's LIFE! And here's a subtlety: When you announce to yourself (and the World) that you will NEVER EVER sell that thing, then that THING owns YOU, you no longer own that thing. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't let "things" own ME...Next thing ya' know, you'll be on the show "Hoarders"...


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## napoleon bonaparte (Feb 22, 2010)

:think:
KINGSTON MK11 WATCH JAMES BOND MKII SUBMARINER PLANKOWNER FULL KIT BOXED | eBay
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/MKII-Kingsto...810475917?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item27c519058d


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## curt941 (May 3, 2011)

napoleon bonaparte said:


> :think:
> KINGSTON MK11 WATCH JAMES BOND MKII SUBMARINER PLANKOWNER FULL KIT BOXED | eBay
> MKII Kingston Watch Bracelet stainless steel - good condition | eBay


I put in the initial bid on the watch, it was sitting at 899pounds with 2 days to go and no bids, but it's obviously much higher now.

And the bracelet is interesting. Why would someone sell the bracelet???

That's not even a kingston bracelet upon closer inspection.

Here is one of Arthur's great pictures for reference









And the bracelet on ebay:

It's a huge picture, hopefully WUS scales it down.


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## powerband (Oct 17, 2008)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*



TheGanzman said:


> Yeah - at 56 years old, I've got about THREE things TOTAL that I "swore I'd never sell" that I actually DIDN'T sell - two of them are my childhood teddy bears, LOL! Let's face it - when it comes to "things", we're all just "curators" - I haven't seen a hearse YET with a trailer hitch on it! Ya' keep a thing until that thing "doesn't do it for you" anymore; someone just HAS to have it MORE than you do; you see something you (think you) want MORE than the thing you said you'd never sell; or it gets lost, stolen, or given away - that's LIFE! And here's a subtlety: When you announce to yourself (and the World) that you will NEVER EVER sell that thing, then that THING owns YOU, you no longer own that thing. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't let "things" own ME...Next thing ya' know, you'll be on the show "Hoarders"...


If in 12 years I have the same wisdom you do, I may sell my wife. Err, my Rolex.

What?


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## TheGanzman (Jan 12, 2010)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*



powerband said:


> If in 12 years I have the same wisdom you do, I may sell my wife. Err, my Rolex.
> 
> What?


Uh - you don't own your wife - she owns YOU, and don't you EVER forget it!


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## GZR_Ranger (Jan 31, 2012)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*

Well, I for one am glad there are several Kingston's available for sale.

I fell in love with the Kingston the first time I saw it online, but couldn't buy it, then I was too late.

Fortunately, I've been surfing the sales forums, and my Kingston arrived a few weeks ago from Europe. I'm the third owner, believe it or not!

I've heard rumors that Bill & some of you hold us 2nd hand owners in contempt as we're not "real" MkII customers. I hope that's not the case, as I'm really a "convert" who is very happy to own a watch I really love.

As if we don't have enough photos, here's more...


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*

I have NEVER seen Bill say ANYTHING about second hand owners.

Also, I am not aware of anyone who has a problem with second hand owners. There may be but while I am still awaiting mine I say more power to you. Good luck and I hope you like it.


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## macleod1979 (Apr 1, 2012)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*



powerband said:


> If in 12 years I have the same wisdom you do, I may sell my wife. Err, my Rolex.


LOL. I tried that last week on ebay myself.

-J


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*



White Tuna said:


> I have NEVER seen Bill say ANYTHING about second hand owners.
> 
> Also, I am not aware of anyone who has a problem with second hand owners. There may be but while I am still awaiting mine I say more power to you. Good luck and I hope you like it.


I absolutely agree. I have never heard one single disparaging remark about 2nd or 3rd owners. We are glad to have you aboard. Certainly there are a number of folks who for various reasons are putting their Kingstons up for sale. Everyone has their own reason. Personally, I have a GO Kingston coming at some point in time, it's a date model, but it doesn't have the lume I like, and I already have a none date that I bought from a fellow forum member. So in all likelihood, unless the date model really resonates with me, I will probably put it up for sale as well. It's hard for me to justify two almost identical watches.I would never fault anyone for selling a watch. After all, it's an inanimate object, a thing! it's not like you're putting your 2 year old child on the sales forum (You may feel differently ,however when she's 16!!).


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## Dragoon (Feb 17, 2006)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*

Welcome to the MKII Kingston club. Great watch and I am sure you will enjoy it for years to come.

Yes, Bill is quite civil about second hand sales of his pieces.

I have spoken with other owners who get absolutely LIVID concerning second hand sales. Mostly it concerns warranty coverage but some see it as cheapening their brand when they see them on ebay.



GZR_Ranger said:


> Well, I for one am glad there are several Kingston's available for sale.
> 
> I fell in love with the Kingston the first time I saw it online, but couldn't buy it, then I was too late.
> 
> ...


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## Fullers1845 (Nov 23, 2008)

Welcome, Ranger. I am a second owner myself. I wear my Kingston nearly every day.

What is the rubber strap on yours in your lower left photo?


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## curt941 (May 3, 2011)

Fullers1845 said:


> Welcome, Ranger. I am a second owner myself. I wear my Kingston nearly every day.
> 
> What is the rubber strap on yours in your lower left photo?


I think that's just a black nato.

And on the contempt, I would think people would have more contempt for those who gouge people buying in the 2nd hand market more than the new owners.


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## GZR_Ranger (Jan 31, 2012)

White Tuna said:


> I have NEVER seen Bill say ANYTHING about second hand owners.
> 
> Also, I am not aware of anyone who has a problem with second hand owners. There may be but while I am still awaiting mine I say more power to you. Good luck and I hope you like it.





curt941 said:


> And on the contempt, I would think people would have more contempt for those who gouge people buying in the 2nd hand market more than the new owners.





Arthur said:


> I absolutely agree. I have never heard one single disparaging remark about 2nd or 3rd owners. We are glad to have you aboard....it's not like you're putting your 2 year old child on the sales forum (You may feel differently ,however when she's 16!!).


I have a 13 year old daughter I wouldn't mind unloading right now... And just a year ago she was such a sweet thing...!

I'm glad to hear Bill and you are not unhappy with us 2nd-hand buyers. I wasn't implying that you were! I'm not sure where I read that, but it was on another forum, I think (enough said).

I'd think seeing your product on the sales forums and ebay, at 2x (or more) its original cost should be very flattering! While MkII isn't getting any immediate profit from the sale, the brand is getting great visibility and that will help in future sales.



Fullers1845 said:


> Welcome, Ranger. I am a second owner myself. I wear my Kingston nearly every day. What is the rubber strap on yours in your lower left photo?





curt941 said:


> I think that's just a black nato.


You're right, Curt. It's a Maratac Mil Series 20mm from The Military Watch Resource. It normally sits on my Steel cased Marathon Nav I was "issued" ("issued"="acquired from some 7th Group guys") back in '92. I like it on the Kingston a lot. I'm somewhat disappointed with the "Maratac Mil-Series NATO MI-6 Band" (aka "Bond-style NATO/G-10 band). It's really thin fabric, not nearly as substantial as the Mil Series.

Commenting on the rest of this thread:

You know, when I first unpacked this watch I was not as thrilled as I thought I'd be. I mean, I really loved the pics of the watch I'd seen online, and in several months of searching I've not seen anything else I liked as well as the MkII watches and the Kingston in particular. An excellent update of a classic in a classic size; (i.e., not horribly big, thank God. I don't think these huge "wrist-pizzas" you see a lot of will be in style more than a few years). For some reason I wasn't sure when I saw it for real if it was everything I'd imagined it to be.

Well, I put this on my wrist and wore it a few days. Then I switched to the black military NATOish band. Within a week I'd really fallen in love with this watch. Understated, with just enough bling to be classy without being flashy. It's what the submariner by "that other brand" was 40 years ago. A quality tool watch you could wear anywhere.

Anyway, I'm happy it was available for me to buy. Sure, I paid more than the plank owners did, but not much more than the General Orders did. Compared to some others I've seen for sale, I got such a good deal I was worried--until i got it--that there must be something wrong with it. However, it's running +4 sec a day. It had a few scratches on it, but since I'm planning on this being a daily-wear watch (gasp!) that's not a problem.

So, thanks for the welcome and I'm glad to be here!

Ranger


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## Fullers1845 (Nov 23, 2008)

curt941 said:


> I think that's just a black nato.





GZR_Ranger said:


> You're right, Curt. It's a Maratac Mil Series 20mm from The Military Watch Resource.


Right. I see that now. Serves me right for WUS'ing on a smartphone.


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## powerband (Oct 17, 2008)

*Re: Kingston sales, why are so many for sale?*



TheGanzman said:


> Uh - you don't own your wife - she owns YOU, and don't you EVER forget it!


Yes, and I have the marks to prove it.


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## cpotters (Jan 29, 2009)

GZR_Ranger said:


> I'm glad to hear Bill and you are not unhappy with us 2nd-hand buyers. I wasn't implying that you were! I'm not sure where I read that, but it was on another forum, I think (enough said).
> 
> ......I'm happy it was available for me to buy. Sure, I paid more than the plank owners did, but not much more than the General Orders did. Compared to some others I've seen for sale, I got such a good deal I was worried--until i got it--that there must be something wrong with it. However, it's running +4 sec a day. It had a few scratches on it, but since I'm planning on this being a daily-wear watch (gasp!) that's not a problem.
> 
> ...


Ranger:

Welcome aboard. As an active forum member and MkII enthusiast, I can only tell you from my perspective that anyone who would give you grief as a 2nd hand owner is a clod! We dig these watches, which we think are good looking and well made, and we're happy to chat with others who think they're good looking and well made. Enjoy your Kingston and, as I always recommend, wear the s#%t out of it! That's what it's made for.


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## powerband (Oct 17, 2008)

Fullers1845 said:


> Right. I see that now. Serves me right for WUS'ing on a smartphone.


Can't be as bad as sexting on a smartphone and accidentally sending it to your sex-addict counselor.


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## sunster (Apr 17, 2007)

Here's someone else trying their luck selling their Kingston on Ebay for a ridiculous price.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/110852336212?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## cpotters (Jan 29, 2009)

sunster said:


> Here's someone else trying their luck selling their Kingston on Ebay for a ridiculous price.
> http://www.ebay.ie/itm/110852336212?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


Interesting. That is what I would consider an absurdly ridiculous price, but that's just one man's opinion, and not worth the paper it's not even printed on.....


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## gonzomantis (Mar 15, 2008)

sunster said:


> Here's someone else trying their luck selling their Kingston on Ebay for a ridiculous price.
> http://www.ebay.ie/itm/110852336212?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


*lnchboy2* = Dragoon?
Aother "Kingston on Ebay"


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## Fullers1845 (Nov 23, 2008)

Why yes, I do wear a Kingston, because it offers me all the excitement of a $60,000 watch for an absolutely absurdly low amount of money. B)


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## Fullers1845 (Nov 23, 2008)

But what I really want is a Project X Designs PXD SS1! That one little word makes all the difference. ;-)


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

gonzomantis said:


> *lnchboy2* = Dragoon?
> Aother "Kingston on Ebay"


First person i thought of when I checked out the link......


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