# Are Orient Stars worth the price premium?



## BlackrazorNZ (Mar 18, 2015)

Hi there,

Currently I own a few Orient watches - Esteem, Starfish, Flight and a Sun & Moon.

I'm looking at buying something a little more substantial, and I've investigated the Orient Star lineup. However, my initial reaction is they don't seem that much better than most of the bog standard lineup - at least not at cursory glance.

So my questions is : Are they worth the price premium? Given that in the price bracket the Orient Stars sit in you can buy a Melbourne WC or Chris Ward watch, which are absolutely beautiful.

I like Orient and if the Stars are genuinely a lovely product I'll buy one, but I am just struggling to see the value proposition at the moment.

To be fair, I also struggle to relate to the design cues on Grand Seiko, but at least they've got the amazing Spring Drive in their favour.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

In a word yes, they sit in the middle tier of Orient's offerings and are similar in quality to the SARB series. Usually better finished cases and movements, and most have sapphire crystal, except for the classic which has a mineral crystal.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

BlackrazorNZ said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Currently I own a few Orient watches - Esteem, Starfish, Flight and a Sun & Moon.
> 
> ...


Look at what additional elements the Orient Star in question offers. If you cannot get them for less money and you insist on having them, then the answer is "yes." If you don't really care about those additional traits, the answer is "no."

All the best.


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## Dan83bz (Jul 6, 2008)

BlackrazorNZ said:


> Hi there,
> 
> *at least not at cursory glance.*
> 
> ...


1. You need to see them in person to judge the quality. Failing that I'd say the second best is to check tanaka's videos  Cursor glance won't cut it. I'd suggest buying at least one, from an AD local to you that accepts returns...although I doubt you'll need it;

2. Melbourne and Chris Wards...I can see what you mean by being nice by the looks of it. Haven't handled a Melbourne yet but I did Chris Ward pieces and I can tell you from my personal opinion, albeit that of a big fan of OS is that Chris Ward does not approach the finishing quality exposed by the Orient Stars...not even by far. Of course it also depends which models/budget we're talking about but all things being equal I'd say the OS is pretty hard to beat in terms of VFM

3. OS are not at all flashy pieces, they fly extremely low below the radar, its one thing I like about them. What they excel in is the very good finish, spectacular dials, good, honest movements that can take a lickin' as they say and lots of JDM design cues.

4. You are right that many pieces look like similar cheaper "normal" Orients but believe me, they look different up close  Like Seiko, they have the 3 price tiers (or more like 4-5 in the case of Seiko), with increasingly better finish

5. Not all Grand Seiko's have SD movements...far from it. Most have "plain" automatics but with superior accuracy, power reserve (in most) , beat rate , finishing etc. And, again, like with the Orients, you really have to see one up-close before you judge. I'm pretty sure with GS being a bit more mainstream you should have at least on reseller in your country/area (I hope?).

6. Funny enough, 2 of the most fanatical and frenetic collectors of Orient Star timepieces are also from Down Under as yourself, anzac1957 (NZ) and kew (OZ) so maybe there's some magnetism down there that'll get you hooked for good as well :-d

Joking aside, as long as you can afford them, and you probably can since you came here to ask, just buy 1-2 models, try them for a while, see how you like them (and tell us also!) ,worst case scenario you'll flip them after a while and move one. No biggie, part of the journey of the WUS.


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

The Orient Star I owned was quite nice. I'd still buy a Tissot or Hamilton Christopher Ward instead if that is in the cards...


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## Erks (Dec 17, 2013)

I personally think Orient Star watches are made to a quality above the price point. 
I use to think similar to you, having an Orient Ray and Disk and thinking is an OS really worth the extra, once i purchased the Star Seeker it was all over, build quality is well above the standard Orient pieces (not saying the standard pieces have poor quality), the movements are superior.
Overall great pieces are to be had from the Orient Star line


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## alexcswong (Jan 18, 2015)

Dan have say all the key points. I totally agreed with him. For me I started with M-Force line, good value for money then I saw Orient star in WUS & then Tanaka video (very tempting video, dangerous) . That's it. I end up with my first Star Seeker from Rakuten Singapore, once awhile there will be very good deal. I got mine at very affordable price for older models if you don't mind it. (PM me if you wanna know more). Anyway, I am waiting good deal for world time OS. Get one I think you will never turn back.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

I want to love them but that logo is too ugly


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## AutomaticWatch (Jan 14, 2012)

BlackrazorNZ said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Currently I own a few Orient watches - Esteem, Starfish, Flight and a Sun & Moon.
> 
> ...


Well, it's personal. Every watch enthusiast has different things they value most and if the Star line doesn't appeal to you with their specifications and looks, then maybe they're not worth it for you. In terms of quality and finishing they are by no means inferior to Christopher Ward at that particular price point. In fact, I'd dare say you will get a plain Sellita with CW, which is a decent work horse, but with Orient Star you can get a power reserve or other complications.

The benefits of OS to me are in the use of materials (e.g. sapphire glass usually), movement (hacking/handwinding), structure (e.g. solid end links vs usually folded on the regular Orients), finishing and the designs. If you don't care about the glass or movement or don't particularly like the designs, then the regular Orients will be a better choice for you I'd say . Orient offers a tremendous amount of watch with their regular models like the Ray and the Bambino, but they did need to leave stuff off to keep the cost low.

With Orient and Orient Star you can pretty clearly see where the price difference comes in and it's all rather logical from a production point of view.


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## Alansmithee (Aug 8, 2014)

Some quick thoughts on this:

1) I think Orient Star makes some great watches but I'd never buy one new, if you are careful you can pick them up (relatively) dirt cheap on ebay and other places - my retrograde was sub-£200 and I think that is great value for what it is

2) Christopher Ward I just don't get - the name conjures up a carpet warehouse off a motorway and when given there are any number of swiss brands with a history in the same range, I don't get the attraction.


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## rfortson (Feb 18, 2012)

I've owned two Orient Stars and two Orients (though the same model, the Masquerade). I sold my Masquerade as it was okay, but wasn't getting any wrist time (my wife wears the other). I had the Orient Star Retrograde, which was great, but I sold it also in a move to downsize my collection. Instantly regretted it and bought an Orient Star Seeker to replace it. I'm as impressed with the Star Seeker as I was with the Retrograde, just a lot of watch for the money.

For me, I like the solid build, the decent decoration on the movement, the power reserve indicator, the bracelet and the sapphire crystal. I bought a Seiko SARX001 which was very nice, but I didn't feel like it was as nice as my Orient Star, so I sold the SARX (and I'm a big Seiko fan). I will say that I bought both my Orient Stars at significant discount new, and that factors into my enjoyment. At their retail price, I think they are on par with others, but at the 30-40% discount you can regularly get, they become a great value.

Someone mentioned Tissot, and I own a couple of Tissots (gave one to my wife). I think they are a great brand for the money, and are a good competitor to Orient Star. Tissot moves farther up the food chain pricewise, but for equal price, I think the two brands are very comparable.

The only thing I can complain about with either of my Orient Stars is the OS logo on the clasp is stamped instead of etched/engraved. Otherwise, just a solid piece, and a real step up from the Orients that I've handled. YMMV.


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## obsidian (Feb 13, 2006)

chuasam said:


> I want to love them but that logo is too ugly


You find this "ugly"?  :-s










Were you frightened by a Yin-Yang symbol as a child?


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## WeylandYutani (Nov 13, 2008)

obsidian said:


> You find this "ugly"?  :-s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i think that Logo is one of the best in the business.


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## the.watchdoc (Apr 23, 2015)

WeylandYutani said:


> i think that Logo is one of the best in the business.


I don't know about you guys, but I personally don't find the OS logo too appealing either. I quite like the original Orient logo. Oh well, takes all types to make a world eh?


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## HUF (Jan 6, 2014)

PhantomThief said:


> I don't know about you guys, but I personally don't find the OS logo too appealing either. I quite like the original Orient logo. Oh well, takes all types to make a world eh?


+1


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## Dan83bz (Jul 6, 2008)

Alansmithee said:


> my retrograde was sub-£200 and I


Wow, that was lucky! eBay ?
L.E. I assume you won this one? Good karma for you that day :-!


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

There are always gong to be diminishing returns, to some extent, on more expensive watches, although to many people, the extra luxury/quality is worth it. Taking the Orient Flight for example, you'd have to spend a lot more to get anything better. Spending somewhat more would probably not get you a better watch. That said, if other Orients are any indication, I'd have to say the Stars are probably worth it. They are probably still great values in their price ranges.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

obsidian said:


> You find this "ugly"?  :-s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, but that use of small caps with serifs is a no no.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

PhantomThief said:


> I don't know about you guys, but I personally don't find the OS logo too appealing either. I quite like the original Orient logo. Oh well, takes all types to make a world eh?


 Love a Grand Seiko, not so much in love with the black letter typeface.


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## WeylandYutani (Nov 13, 2008)

chuasam said:


> No, but that use of small caps with serifs is a no no.


lol whhaaaaat?

I love the Orient star font and small caps. plays so well with the logo too. I think if anything this shows how tastes can vary so much.


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## Mediocre (Oct 27, 2013)

I enjoyed the one I owned, but I sold it primarily because it did not have a good time for wear in my regular routine. For the price, I enjoy my SARB a bit more


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## Dan83bz (Jul 6, 2008)

Mediocre said:


> I enjoyed the one I owned, but I sold it primarily because it did not have a good time for wear in my regular routine. For the price, I enjoy my SARB a bit more


Which SARB is that? I also like my SARB017 more than some/probably most of my Orient Stars, with few exceptions but on the other hand I owned and flipped both the SARB033 and SARB035, I find the Orient Star "equivalents" superior in most aspects. (WZ0071EL / WZ0081EL).

But of course this is just my own (subjective) opinion.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

WeylandYutani said:


> lol whhaaaaat?
> 
> I love the Orient star font and small caps. plays so well with the logo too. I think if anything this shows how tastes can vary so much.


I like the bare starkness of Bauhaus derived watches. Others find them too sterile. I hate the Tag Heuer logo cuz it looks like RiteAid. I am unable to appreciate ChWard logo....downright hate it.

My dad wears an Orient GMT and it's an amazing watch for $700 but Royal Orient and Orient Star logos just rub me the wrong way.

and that wordmark... it looks just WRONG







I respect the watch and the brand...but I can't stand that weird fake small caps and inelegant typeface.


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## Gianclaudio Palazzolo (Oct 5, 2012)

Dan83bz said:


> Which SARB is that? I also like my SARB017 more than some/probably most of my Orient Stars, with few exceptions but on the other hand I owned and flipped both the SARB033 and SARB035, I find the Orient Star "equivalents" superior in most aspects. (WZ0071EL / WZ0081EL).
> 
> But of course this is just my own (subjective) opinion.


I agree with Dan. Have a sarb35 and is a lovely watch, but my WZ091EL, is superior in every sense: nicer and much better finished bracelet, indices, hands, crown, more decorated movement, anti reflective coating on the sapphire crystal, clasp with 3 adjusting positions rather than 2.... I give a tie on dial (both lovely sunburts) and case design, again both with fantastic curves and combination of brushed and polished surfaces. A plus for the Seiko is the longer 52 hour power reserve vs the 40 for the Orient.

Going back to the OP question, after owning 4 regular Orients, which are fantastic watches for very low prices, and now owning two Orient Stars, without any single doubt or hesitation I can say they are worth the price difference and even more.


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## Mediocre (Oct 27, 2013)

Dan83bz said:


> Which SARB is that? I also like my SARB017 more than some/probably most of my Orient Stars, with few exceptions but on the other hand I owned and flipped both the SARB033 and SARB035, I find the Orient Star "equivalents" superior in most aspects. (WZ0071EL / WZ0081EL).
> 
> But of course this is just my own (subjective) opinion.


I have both an SARB033 and SARB017. I consider both to be nicer than the Orient Star Classic I had time with.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

Here is a comparison between an OS open heart and a Seiko SARG011 with the 6R15C movement. Both watches are extremely good for the money. I will let you decide if one is better; in my opinion they are both great watches. Please excuse the smudges, the OS particularly is a highly polished piece.

Probably not a fair comparison as they are very different, one is a sport watch and one dress.

Cheers

Pete


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## WeylandYutani (Nov 13, 2008)

I think we can agree to disagree then. Completely and most definitely think that the logo is awesome.



chuasam said:


> I like the bare starkness of Bauhaus derived watches. Others find them too sterile. I hate the Tag Heuer logo cuz it looks like RiteAid. I am unable to appreciate ChWard logo....downright hate it.
> 
> My dad wears an Orient GMT and it's an amazing watch for $700 but Royal Orient and Orient Star logos just rub me the wrong way.
> 
> ...


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## Spindel (Jul 14, 2014)

Yes they are!


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## HUF (Jan 6, 2014)

Let me add my $0.02. I think Orient should have kept the old logo and let people distinguish their higher tier watches rather by their fit, finish, materials, design, and performance than by a different logo on the dial.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

HUF said:


> Let me add my $0.02. I think Orient should have kept the old logo and let people distinguish their higher tier watches rather by their fit, finish, materials, design, and performance than by a different logo on the dial.
> 
> View attachment 3916546


This typeface isn't exactly elegant but at least it isn't downright ugly and awkward.
The tracking feels too tight. The O feels disproportionate somehow.


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## Chronopolis (Apr 8, 2009)

I am with Chuasam on this one: I also find their logo and typography objectionable.

That 'lion' coat of arms thing was just.... really an unfortunate choice.


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## Spindel (Jul 14, 2014)

HUF said:


> Let me add my $0.02. I think Orient should have kept the old logo and let people distinguish their higher tier watches rather by their fit, finish, materials, design, and performance than by a different logo on the dial.
> 
> View attachment 3916546


But the first wristwatch by Orient actually was a Orient Star with a logo more or less the same as the logo on todays Orient Stars


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## xInZax (Jun 14, 2014)

They are definitely worth picking up if you can get one at a good price. I wouldn't pay retail. For example, I was fortunate enough to pick up a Standard Date for around $85 (had to repair some stuff, but came out less than $150), and a Classic for under $200. Great deals, and fantastic for the price. Like others have stated, try to search for used ones. Most of the people keep them in pristine condition on the forums.


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## Dan83bz (Jul 6, 2008)

HUF said:


> Let me add my $0.02. I think Orient should have kept the old logo and let people distinguish their higher tier watches rather by their fit, finish, materials, design, and performance than by a different logo on the dial.
> 
> View attachment 3916546


You do realize that the logo you've posted is one of their newer ones , right? Orient Star logo is probably the longest surviving one in its current form/color? (1950's).

I believe it has to do also with the Japanese culture. They like to use different names for different stuff  Hate to use the same example again as it's been said and said but look at Toyota,Honda, etc. they have their higher tier cars under different badges. Even European car manufacturers do the same, like VW with Skoda, Seat, Renault with their cheap&cheerful Dacia etc.

Here's some oldies but goldies.


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

Of course to each their own, and I know a lot of us are, shall we say, particular, but I'd never let my dislike of a logo ruin the rest of the watch for me.


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

I love the logo


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## HUF (Jan 6, 2014)

Oh, I see - Orient Star is pretty old. Sorry, I am still learning all that Orient-related stuff!


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

I've only got one Star to my name but it was well worth the extra it cost over the "run of the mill" Orients


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

Chiming in based on my limited experience with one Orient Star (Seeker GMT) compared to a few standard Orients. I would say yes, the street-to-street premium is worth it. Starts with s better quality movement (hacks, hand winds, although can't recall if runs at 4Hz), nicely adorned at that, plus the overall style and fit/finish are of a higher grade. In the case of the Seeker there is also the added GMT and power reserve complications, and exceptional depth to the dial.


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## Spindel (Jul 14, 2014)

mitchjrj said:


> Chiming in based on my limited experience with one Orient Star (Seeker GMT) compared to a few standard Orients. I would say yes, the street-to-street premium is worth it. Starts with s better quality movement (hacks, hand winds, although can't recall if runs at 4Hz), nicely adorned at that, plus the overall style and fit/finish are of a higher grade. In the case of the Seeker there is also the added GMT and power reserve complications, and exceptional depth to the dial.


All modern orients run at 6 Hz with the exeptions of 88x00 Royal orients and the OS chronograph (i think) that run at 8 Hz. (6 Hz = 21 600 bph and 8 Hz = 28 800 bph)


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

You're mixing Hz and BPS. 3Hz = 6bps = 21,600bph. 4Hz = 8bps = 28,800bph.


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## reggie747 (Sep 12, 2013)

I think they are...


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## mitchjrj (Aug 30, 2014)

reggie747 said:


> I think they are...
> 
> View attachment 3938706


On my wishlist.


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## Spindel (Jul 14, 2014)

mitchjrj said:


> You're mixing Hz and BPS. 3Hz = 6bps = 21,600bph. 4Hz = 8bps = 28,800bph.


You are right, was a stupid misstake from my side 

*note to self: Think before clicking reply button*


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

Also agree. But the disagreement isn't surprising. I'm willing to bet that many WIS are also typeface enthusiasts. And therefore, we must deal with the worst qualities of both. Including pickiness for pettiness sake, and a worship of sterile, dull approaches to typefaces and fonts. The worship of Bauhaus and Helvetica. (Argh!)



WeylandYutani said:


> I think we can agree to disagree then. Completely and most definitely think that the logo is awesome.


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## Harpo (Dec 30, 2014)

Alansmithee said:


> Some quick thoughts on this:
> 
> 2) Christopher Ward I just don't get - the name conjures up a carpet warehouse off a motorway and when given there are any number of swiss brands with a history in the same range, I don't get the attraction.


I have always wondered the same thing!


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## Sevenmack (Oct 16, 2011)

Well, Christopher Ward is named after its founder, same as Tissot, Baume & Mercier, Patek Philippe and any number of brands. So it is perfectly fine. Methinks the pro-Swiss snobbery is talking.



Harpo said:


> I have always wondered the same thing!


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## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

I have a few Orients, Orient Stars and one M Force. Yes, Orient Star is quite a bit nicer finished than standard Orient. I recommend to buy one Orient Star rather than 2 Orients. They are in my opinion quite comparable in general finish to the famous Seiko Sarb series.
No experience with C Ward watches, however I do have a few Steinharts in roughly the same price range as several Orient Stars. I think they are roughly similar in general quality/price but offer a very different styling. Orient Star dials can be more complex than the printed dials of many steinharts but the latter have their own interesting design features.


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## Dan83bz (Jul 6, 2008)

MrDagon007 said:


> I have a few Orients, Orient Stars and one M Force. Yes, Orient Star is quite a bit nicer finished than standard Orient. I recommend to buy one Orient Star rather than 2 Orients. They are in my opinion quite comparable in general finish to the famous Seiko Sarb series.
> No experience with C Ward watches, however I do have a few Steinharts in roughly the same price range as several Orient Stars. I think they are roughly similar in general quality/price but offer a very different styling. Orient Star dials can be more complex than the printed dials of many steinharts but the latter have their own interesting design features.


Great post , very well put.

Most brands have at least some interesting features or plus points, of course there's also some "filler" brands but I guess those are not favored much by the WIS. I think lots of us tend to side at some point with some brands against others, most times beyond rationality (I know I do, keep recommending JDM stuff to lots of people on and off the forums ), at the same time I think staying rational with a hobby, especially watches is pretty hard if not impossible to do.


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## Alansmithee (Aug 8, 2014)

Sevenmack said:


> Well, Christopher Ward is named after its founder, same as Tissot, Baume & Mercier, Patek Philippe and any number of brands. So it is perfectly fine. Methinks the pro-Swiss snobbery is talking.


Maybe - it's just being English I just find it very dull and it just makes me think of being a child and listening to adverts on the local radio

"this bank holiday weekend, Christopher Ward Carpet warehouse is having a mega-sale. Find off us the Shrewsbury round-a-bout. Free hot dog for every child".


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## wtkb (May 17, 2015)

reggie747 said:


> I think they are...
> 
> View attachment 3938730


This one is very nice. Anyone got a model name/number for it?


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## wtkb (May 17, 2015)

I see the attachment didn't display inline.

I meant the one with arabic numerals at 6, 9 and 12.

I'll try again.









Does anyone know the model number or name of this? Or any other details?


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## reggie747 (Sep 12, 2013)

> Does anyone know the model number or name of this? Or any other details?


Yes, it's the Orient Star WZ0011ER.


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## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)




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## wtkb (May 17, 2015)

reggie747 said:


> Yes, it's the Orient Star WZ0011ER.


Thanks!


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## Barry H (Oct 1, 2008)

Dan83bz said:


> You do realize that the logo you've posted is one of their newer ones , right? Orient Star logo is probably the longest surviving one in its current form/color? (1950's). ...


Can't leave this thread without saying thanks for a really interesting post - nice to see those vintage OSs.


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## sgtiger (Feb 13, 2007)

Worth every penny. Superior to all the SARB's and equivalent Seiko's I've owned in all respects - especially the bracelet.


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

I love everything about that watch, dial, power reserve and date location, crown placement, bracelet, size, everything. It is a beautiful and versatile watch that can go both sporty and dressy.


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## MP83 (Jan 28, 2013)

wtkb said:


> I see the attachment didn't display inline.
> 
> I meant the one with arabic numerals at 6, 9 and 12.
> 
> ...


That's a beauty, very close to my explorients









Sent from my magic brick


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## Neuromancer (Jun 17, 2015)

Sorry to highjack this thread but my question is at least somewhat related I think.

I just had a very long conversation with an Orient reseller here in Germany and he claimed that all the watches he sells ("normal" Orients as well as Orient Stars) are 100% from Japan and that resellers who are based in Singapore (for example CreationWatches) sell the ones that are manufactured in Singapore. He also claimed that the ones that are manufactured in Singapore have a lower quality than the ones made completely in Japan (yes, even if it is the same model!!!). I wonder if there is any truth to that or if he is just trying to justify his higher prices.
I read somewhere that Orient only produces the higher end pieces (as in Orient Star and Royal Orient) in Japan and the rest in Singapore or Brazil. I can't remember where I read this but it's quite likely that it was on this board. So when that reseller tells me that even the rather low priced Esteem I am planning to buy from him was made in Japan rather than Singapore or Brazil, I think he might be lying just to lure me away from the cheaper competition (CreationWatches or CityWatches respectively).
Also, he tries to make me believe that when I order the Orient Star Classic from CW I will get something like a lower quality version of the watch because it comes from Singapore....what are your thoughts on this?

Thanks!


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

I would assume that any difference in quality is a subjective matter of perception. I'm sure that Orient has the same quality control standards at their various factories, much like Seiko.


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## Seikomasochist (Nov 10, 2013)

Neuromancer said:


> Sorry to highjack this thread but my question is at least somewhat related I think.
> 
> I just had a very long conversation with an Orient reseller here in Germany and he claimed that all the watches he sells ("normal" Orients as well as Orient Stars) are 100% from Japan and that resellers who are based in Singapore (for example CreationWatches) sell the ones that are manufactured in Singapore. He also claimed that the ones that are manufactured in Singapore have a lower quality than the ones made completely in Japan (yes, even if it is the same model!!!). I wonder if there is any truth to that or if he is just trying to justify his higher prices.
> I read somewhere that Orient only produces the higher end pieces (as in Orient Star and Royal Orient) in Japan and the rest in Singapore or Brazil. I can't remember where I read this but it's quite likely that it was on this board. So when that reseller tells me that even the rather low priced Esteem I am planning to buy from him was made in Japan rather than Singapore or Brazil, I think he might be lying just to lure me away from the cheaper competition (CreationWatches or CityWatches respectively).
> ...


Sounds a little fishy. There is a reason it just says "Japan Movement" or whatever on the baseline Orients because I doubt any of them are made in Japan.


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## Neuromancer (Jun 17, 2015)

Seikomasochist said:


> Sounds a little fishy. There is a reason it just says "Japan Movement" or whatever on the baseline Orients because I doubt any of them are made in Japan.


Yep, that's what I think as well.
I mean he did offer me quite good prices but ordering from CW might cost me a bit less _if_ they grant me a little discount I was asking for. If they don't I will actually be better off buying from the German reseller. Since I live in Germany the location would also be a little bonus (in case something is wrong with the watch). I don't know...I would actually have a better feeling buying from the German guy but I still wonder why he would tell me such BS...


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## MrDagon007 (Sep 24, 2012)

Having lived in Singapore, I expect that any watch made there would have impeccable quality control.
But in your case I would buy German, easier if something needs attention.


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## the.watchdoc (Apr 23, 2015)

I think it may be a good idea to establish good relations with a local reseller, especially if you plan to have a collection of Orients, just in case anything goes wrong in the future. You could consider it to be something of an insurance policy.

But back to the matter at hand, I'm fairly certain that in the lower end Orients with Japan Mov't on the dial, the case/dial/bracelet/straps are usually made overseas, while the movement itself is still manufactured by Orient in Japan. I would consider the movement itself to be the most essential component when it comes to QC, so I really wouldn't worry too much about it. At the end of the day, the question is do you want to save a few bucks or buy an insurance policy of sorts? Either way, you won't go wrong.


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## Neuromancer (Jun 17, 2015)

Okay, thanks for your input guys!
I think I'm gonna buy here in Germany because I have a better feeling about it. If it was a more inexpensive watch (like say the Bambino which I indeed bought at CW) I would probably just buy where the price is the lowest and if the watch has a defect some day it would be sad but oh well. But in this price range it is a good idea to invest in an "insurance policy" and a good relationship to a (somewhat) local reseller, like you said.

Thanks!


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## HUF (Jan 6, 2014)

PhantomThief said:


> I think it may be a good idea to establish good relations with a local reseller, especially if you plan to have a collection of Orients, just in case anything goes wrong in the future. You could consider it to be something of an insurance policy.
> 
> But back to the matter at hand, I'm fairly certain that in the lower end Orients with Japan Mov't on the dial, the case/dial/bracelet/straps are usually made overseas, while the movement itself is still manufactured by Orient in Japan. I would consider the movement itself to be the most essential component when it comes to QC, so I really wouldn't worry too much about it. At the end of the day, the question is do you want to save a few bucks or buy an insurance policy of sorts? Either way, you won't go wrong.


+1


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## Neuromancer (Jun 17, 2015)

Update: I found something that made me think that the reseller I was talking to might be saying the truth after all.

Orient Star WZ0251EL Orient Star Classic Mechanical WZ0251EL Men's Watch
Orient Star EL05004W Orient Auto Star Classic Power Reserve EL05004W

As was discussed over here https://www.watchuseek.com/f410/difference-os-el05004w-wz0251el-1373913.html it seems that the only difference between those watches is that the WZ0251EL is the JDM version and that it costs much more.
BUT: if you look closelely you will see that for the WZ0251EL there is "Made In Japan" under features which is missing for the EL05004W. Maybe there really is a difference in terms of production site and overall quality...


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

Okay. I think most everyone disagrees on the overall quality issue.


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## CW_Doktoray (Jul 4, 2015)

Orient star's price is NOT premium price !

if you select swiss brands you have to pay five times more.

// unique swiss watches starts 100.000 usd and above


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## alexcswong (Jan 18, 2015)

CW_Doktoray said:


> Orient star's price is NOT premium price !
> 
> if you select swiss brands you have to pay five times more.
> 
> // unique swiss watches starts 100.000 usd and above


I have to agreed with this. I love Orient star. But some alternative Swiss made like Steinhart, SQUALE also very good value for money.


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## Seikomasochist (Nov 10, 2013)

What I don't understand about Orient Star (I can sort of understand it with Orient) is why all of the designs have such short seconds hands. It is jarringly bad, almost like a quartz watch. Are the movements just not powerful enough to move a second hand that extends to the second markers? This is the only reason I haven't purchased an Orient Star Classic.


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

Uh, what?


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## Seikomasochist (Nov 10, 2013)

cabfrank said:


> Uh, what?


On almost all mechanical watches - certainly any of decent value - it is proper to have the second hand extend to the second indices. Example:










On quartz watches, the second hand is often much shorter because the electric motor does not have enough torque to move the second hand. Orient, for some reason, either thinks it is aesthetically sound to have short hands or has a mechanical movement that is under-powered.


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

Do what now?


Seikomasochist said:


> On almost all mechanical watches - certainly any of decent value - it is proper to have the second hand extend to the second indices. Example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Seikomasochist (Nov 10, 2013)

cabfrank said:


> Do what now?


Are you playing dumb to be a troll or do you seriously not understand what I'm saying? Orient: Inexplicably short second hands that don't quite make it to the indices. Everyone else: Proper length second hands.


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## MP83 (Jan 28, 2013)

Seikomasochist said:


> Are you playing dumb to be a troll or do you seriously not understand what I'm saying? Orient: Inexplicably short second hands that don't quite make it to the indices. Everyone else: Proper length second hands.


Somehow (at least in tapatalk) you posted the same image twice, that's probably why he's confused

Sent from my magic brick


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## Seikomasochist (Nov 10, 2013)

MP83 said:


> Somehow (at least in tapatalk) you posted the same image twice, that's probably why he's confused
> 
> Sent from my magic brick


He's confused two posts in a row after two explanations?


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## MP83 (Jan 28, 2013)

Nevermind didn't read the previous posts...

Sent from my magic brick


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## Bosman (Jul 13, 2014)

Seikomasochist said:


> Are you playing dumb to be a troll or do you seriously not understand what I'm saying? Orient: Inexplicably short second hands that don't quite make it to the indices. Everyone else: Proper length second hands.


I assume he thinks you're being a bit silly... are you referring to a particular Orient, your post implies all of them? My Defender second hand "reaches" the indices.


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## Cobia (Nov 24, 2013)

WeylandYutani said:


> i think that Logo is one of the best in the business.


For a japanese or chinese take away joint its an ok name and logo  I used to live near a sketchy Orient Star Chinese take away, got really bad food poisoning from a pork dish, i wont be wearing a watch called Orient Star , i'll draw the line wearing an orient, but if the orient star is better than a standard orient it must be a pretty nice watch.


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## Samwatch (Jul 15, 2007)

Seikomasochist said:


> Are you playing dumb to be a troll or do you seriously not understand what I'm saying?


You shouldn't call other people dumb or troll. Learn how to post and how to express yourself politely!

Michael


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

Actually, buddy, I'm just making fun of you. 
Without any malicious intent, of course.


Seikomasochist said:


> He's confused two posts in a row after two explanations?


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

...and the Ray, and the Flight...oh, and the question about whether Orient movements have enough power to move a long second hand, and the declaration of how all watches of value should be designed, and black and white clash with a lot of colors...


Bosman said:


> I assume he thinks you're being a bit silly... are you referring to a particular Orient, you post implies all of them? My Defender second hand "reaches" the indices.


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## Seikomasochist (Nov 10, 2013)

cabfrank said:


> ...and the Ray, and the Flight...oh, and the question about whether Orient movements have enough power to move a long second hand, and the declaration of how all watches of value should be designed, and black and white clash with a lot of colors...


It's just bad aesthetics. There is no design proportion the hand is made to. It's just kind of short for no reason and I don't know of any other watch company that makes hands on mechanical watches this way, especially since the main aesthetic gripe of quartz watches is that the hands aren't long enough. All of the Stars are like this and most of the dress watches are like this. The dive watches are short too, including the Ray, but they're not as egregious.


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## alexcswong (Jan 18, 2015)

I think most of Swiss made watches (my observation & opinion), have second hand touch the indices & seems most Japanese watch makers (Seiko, Casio, Citizen, Orient) is NOT. Means not only Orient, maybe it their design style. Also its personal taste, to me its better to have but not must.


Seikomasochist said:


> It's just bad aesthetics. There is no design proportion the hand is made to. It's just kind of short for no reason and I don't know of any other watch company that makes hands on mechanical watches this way, especially since the main aesthetic gripe of quartz watches is that the hands aren't long enough. All of the Stars are like this and most of the dress watches are like this. The dive watches are short too, including the Ray, but they're not as egregious.
> 
> View attachment 4607090


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## Seikomasochist (Nov 10, 2013)

alexcswong said:


> I think most of Swiss made watches (my observation & opinion), have second hand touch the indices & seems most Japanese watch makers (Seiko, Casio, Citizen, Orient) is NOT. Means not only Orient, maybe it their design style. Also its personal taste, to me its better to have but not must.


I have never seen a Seiko with this issue. Citizen and Casio make almost all quartz watches (I don't think Casio makes any automatics whatsoever), so you're point about this being a "Japanese" thing just isn't true.


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## skippington (Sep 30, 2010)

it's a japanese thing


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## cabfrank (Nov 20, 2010)

We're glad you like long seconds hands. Not many of us are going to agree with your opinion that the watch pictured has "bad aesthetics". Good enough?


Seikomasochist said:


> It's just bad aesthetics. There is no design proportion the hand is made to. It's just kind of short for no reason and I don't know of any other watch company that makes hands on mechanical watches this way, especially since the main aesthetic gripe of quartz watches is that the hands aren't long enough. All of the Stars are like this and most of the dress watches are like this. The dive watches are short too, including the Ray, but they're not as egregious.
> 
> View attachment 4607090


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## the.watchdoc (Apr 23, 2015)

As the kids might say: ohhhh snap!

Is this going to develop into some kind of statistical battle to determine which brand has a larger percentage of models with a "short" seconds hand?



skippington said:


> it's a japanese thing
> [iurl="https://www.watchuseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4616482&d=1436644232"]
> 
> 
> ...


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## alexcswong (Jan 18, 2015)

Seikomasochist said:


> I have never seen a Seiko with this issue. Citizen and Casio make almost all quartz watches (I don't think Casio makes any automatics whatsoever), so you're point about this being a "Japanese" thing just isn't true.


I am no expert in watches. You might be right.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

skippington said:


> it's a japanese thing
> View attachment 4616482


Is it?










I think it's just a design choice that any maker can make.

All the best.


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## skippington (Sep 30, 2010)

if a movement couldn't handle a long seconds hand, it's not difficult to use longer seconds markings. it has to be a design choice. i personally don't find it unattractive.


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## Dan83bz (Jul 6, 2008)

Seikomasochist said:


> It's just bad aesthetics. There is no design proportion the hand is made to. It's just kind of short for no reason and I don't know of any other watch company that makes hands on mechanical watches this way, especially since the main aesthetic gripe of quartz watches is that the hands aren't long enough. All of the Stars are like this and most of the dress watches are like this. The dive watches are short too, including the Ray, but they're not as egregious.
> 
> View attachment 4607090


- The GMT I'm wearing right now has a second hand that extends past the hour indices

- In most Orient Stars the second hand goes as far as the hour hand. I don't find this unaesthetic at all, on the contrary. While I might agree with you partially on the 60th anniversary or the new Bambino, with generally shorter hands that might not be greatly visible, this is just me/us, I'm sure others are fine with it.


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