# Sticky  Certina DS2 "FAQ"



## chris01

This thread will be reserved for important posts. I expect to update it as needed and do not need anyone else to post here.



This is a long item but I think it marks a very significant event in the world of HAQ. We have a brand-new TC movement - the ETA 251.264.CEN PreciDrive - installed in a brand-new watch from a long-established Swatch Group watch manufacturer. Unlike all the other announcements of the last year or so, that have only a very limited (albeit exciting) appeal, like the Hoptroff CSAC watch, or are still apparently vapourware, like AtomicTime and Morgenwerk, this one is real and is currently being shipped to retailers at a very reasonable price.

Certina's effort in announcing and publicising their new watch, after the initial press releases, has been feeble and confusing, with retailers and their distributors having very little information and even Certina's web site has almost no useful information. There are currently six models with cosmetic variations and they are shown here:
certina.com/collection/gent-quartz/ds-2#m=1
It appears that they all have the TC movement but only the more expensive LE version has a COSC certificate (and a fancy box).

My recently departed, and not greatly missed, Aerospace has left an HAQ-sized gap, just in time to receive my own Certina and I hope the photos give a good idea of the whole package. If you want wrist shots, or a photo of the movement, then you'll have to buy your own. 

View attachment 1278880


View attachment 1278881


View attachment 1278883


View attachment 1278884


View attachment 1278885


View attachment 1278886


View attachment 1278887


*Chronograph Indications*
View attachment 1278889


*Detailed specification (from Certina and my own watch)*


Model number: C024.447.11.081.00
Movement: Thermocompensated Quartz ETA 251.264.CEN PreciDrive, +/- 10 seconds/year
Battery life: more than 2 years (silver oxide 394/SR936SW), EOL indication
Functions: Centre hour & minute hands, small-second, date,
time-zone (hour hand setting is independent),
date adjustment using hour hand, NO perpetual calendar
Chronograph: Centre 1-second hand with 1/100[SUP]th[/SUP]-second graduations,
runs for first minute, subsequently displayed when chronograph is stopped
Centre 60-second hand
Small 30-minute and 12-hour dials
Case: Brushed/polished 316L stainless steel
41mm diameter, 12.54 mm high, lug width 22 mm
Aluminium bezel with tachymeter scale
Dial: Anthracite with polished hands and nickelled indices
Sub-dials black with textured finish
Superluminova on hour & minute hands and hour markers
See the Certina link for other variations
Water resistance: to 10 bar (100m)
Crystal: Sapphire crystal, domed, with inner anti-reflective coating
Watch strap: Three-row 316L stainless steel (brushed/polished)
with twin push-button butterfly buckle
Removable links with split-pin fixings
Dimensions: Case 41 mm diameter, 12.54 mm high, 22 mm lug width, 51 mm lug-to-lug
Weight of watch with full bracelet 150 g
Maximum wrist circumference of watch + bracelet 21.5 cm
Bracelet 22 mm wide, tapering to 19 mm,with removable links 7 mm (x2) and 10 mm (x5)
Warranty: Two year international warranty, service through normal SG Group centres
*
A brief initial review*

First impressions are that this is a very nicely designed and finished piece, quite 'normal' in appearance. The case has a good mix of brushed and polished sections, as does the bracelet, although I fear that the large polished centre links will soon show scuffs and scratches. The bracelet was quite easily adjusted to size with two sizes of link, and there are helpful arrow markings on the bracelet to avoid the disaster of attempting to insert or remove the split pins in the wrong direction. I would have liked to see micro-adjustment but this is probably impossible with a butterfly fastening.

Rather surprisingly for a 100m WR watch, the back is pressed in rather than screwed in. However, Certina make a big deal of their DS (Double Security) Concept, and there is a relief of a turtle on the back, so I have to assume that they know what they're doing! It does mean that I'm in no hurry to have a peek at the movement.

On the wrist it's quite comfortable and doesn't feel too big. It's on the upper size limit for my taste, and I prefer titanium for lightness, but it's OK. Absence of a rotating bezel is a major plus point for me.

Readability is good, helped by the slightly domed crystal, with internal AR, that avoids the problem with a flat crystal of the dial disappearing behind one large reflection. In the absence of an outer AR coating this is good enough. The dial has a very subtle sunburst effect for the main dark grey part, with black sub-dials that have a raised annular ring pattern.

Operation is perfectly straightforward, with all the functions working as expected. The independent hour hand is for me a mandatory feature for any HAQ . Perpetual calendar would have been nice but it seems unachievable with a chronograph. You have to turn the hour hand through 24 hours to change the date (works in both directions). Lume seems adequate but I haven't tried an 05:00 time check yet.

The chrono buttons work smoothly but I must make a comment about the 1/100[SUP]th[/SUP]-second feature. This was greatly hyped in the initial press releases, as if it's a must-have unique feature. To me it's a complete nonsense. Trying to read an elapsed time that requires reference to 4 separate hands (12-hour and 30-minute sub-dials, plus 60-second and 1-second main hands) is a serious test of one's patience. Omitting the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] hand would give a perfectly serviceable 1-second stopwatch. If you need sub-second resolution then any cheap digital stopwatch is infinitely better.

The user manual is perfectly adequate, being written in good English (plus 16 other languages) and contains everything you need to know on 12 tiny pages. This includes simple instructions for resetting the chrono hands, which was necessary when my watch arrived.

So, my initial conclusion is that I am very pleased with this attractive watch at an attractive price. I cannot understand why Christopher Ward doesn't do something similar with sensibly-priced COSC quartz, instead of their bizarre special editions that are commemorative of nothing very significant.

I am now starting my test of accuracy and will report as soon as the SPY value starts to settle down. +/-10 SPY is not usually a problem for ETA TC movements.

I'll be happy to attempt to answer any questions.


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## webvan

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Great stuff! I must say I had completely missed the original announcement. So not only do we have a new HAQ watch but also a new HAQ movement, the ETA 251.264, after the often used ETA 251.232 with its 1/10th second chrono feature. Let's hope the movement is actually tweakable unlike the one on the Aerospace, have you been able to track down a technical manual?

Too bad the new center 1/100th hand doesn't seem to have much practical use and I'm not surprised because my vintage Omega 1/100th and Longines 1/100th with the ESA 251.252 (Omega 1670, not sure about the Longines name) have the same problem, hehe...

I'm also not a big fan (hate them really) of pressed backs as it's impossible to remove them without leaving marks and this one might be even harder to remove with the DS claim...

Finally it seems you can only get seconds readings down to 5 seconds? Not a huge practical issue but a tad "annoying" for an HAQ, a bit like that CW where you couldn't read the minutes on part of the dial, well that was worse I suppose ;-)


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Just to say that if anybody is looking to buy one at a good price, I can recommend my supplier. No personal interest in this, other than as a satisfied customer. PM me for info.


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## Memphis1

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Chris, you do not have the COSC Spec movement, only the C024.448.11.031.00 model is COSC... you do have the precidrive which means you can measure up to 1/100th of a second in chronograph mode...

chronograph DOES NOT mean chronometer


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



Memphis1 said:


> Chris, you do not have the COSC Spec movement, only the C024.448.11.031.00 model is COSC... you do have the precidrive which means you can measure up to 1/100th of a second in chronograph mode...
> 
> chronograph DOES NOT mean chronometer


I think that you are overestimating the significance of COSC. My understanding of this range of watches is that they all have the same PreciDrive TC movement, which will be adjusted by ETA in exactly the same way. The LE model contains a movement that has been tested by COSC and comes with the certificate. Since COSC isn't a watchmaker, the movement passes or fails and that's it. So the only difference is the certificate. I know that I have a chronograph and that only the LE is a chronometer within the Swiss meaning of the word. Certina claims +/-10 SPY for all the watches. As to actual chronometer levels of performance, I'll be able to see for myself quite soon.

Measuring 1/100th second has absolutely no connection with COSC performance. The underlying ETA PowerDrive technology may facilitate high-resolution chronograph operation but that's available on the non-TC movements as well. 1 to 10 millisecond chronograph resolution is available on several other quartz watches that don't have PreciDrive or PowerDrive.


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



sheldoncooper said:


> i have preordered at uhrzeit.de,but how to change battery when the times comes?
> This is a sealed case,can an ordinary watchmaker in my local area change battery or must it be shipped to switserland?


Like any WR watch the back needs care in removal and even more care when it's replaced. Ideally it will need a new gasket (possibly also the crown and pushers) and should be pressure tested. I wouldn't consider taking it to a local 'battery man'. If you look on the Certina.com web site you can search for your nearest Certina (Swatch Group) service centre. Unless you're in Switzerland it shouldn't need to travel that far! If its performance is outside the +/-10 SPY spec. you can get them to regulate it as well.


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



TimeSeeker said:


> one quick question. Does pulling out the crown on these watches save the battery? I have heard all kinds of interpretations, from it makes the battery die faster, it makes the battery leak to it's ok and will save the battery life.
> Of course, being that the watch has a HAQ movement, the question might sound pointless, but let's say I know I wont be wearing the watch for 6 months, and I don't want to open this difficult caseback nor send it to service.


This is a subject that has been beaten to death many times. I'll quote from Certina's user manual for this watch:

_If you plan not to wear your chronograph for several weeks or months, we would advise you to store it with the crown pulled out to position III _[that's fully out]_. This cuts the electrical supply to the motor, thereby extending battery life considerably. _

Certina have not yet added the manual to their web site for downloading. I would have liked to have made a scan available here, but I'm not about to put copyright material on a public forum. If anybody wants more information, please PM me and include a real email address.


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## Sabresoft

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Just picked up my DS2 from the UPS depot. Sitting in my car waiting for a car wash, so here is a quick pic and first observations.

View attachment 1297148


First impressions:
- neat box only slightly spoiled by a tear in the (paper) covering on the back. Like the neat compartment for the manual.

- The green is brighter than the web pictures led me to believe. But does look pretty neat. Quite a contrast from the dark red hands on the Skyhawk Red Arrows that I am wearing today.

- Time was off by 9 hours (we are UTC -7) so must have been set to factory time in Switzerland, not local Spanish time(?).

- It was also off by about 9 seconds, but there's no guarantee that it was set exactly.

- I like the way the chronograph works compared to the Miros & CW C70, with the large hand doing 1/100 ths, and the minutes on the small dial (versus minutes on the large dial and 1/10 ths on the small dial).

- Just set it against the Skyhawk and will start a test this weekend as I do an update on the other 3 (I'll start a test on the Sinn again too at the same time).

Going into the wash now so gotta go.


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## TimeSeeker

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*






Ceramic casing? What is that exactly?
Mine is on the way here by UPS, I can't wait to hold her!


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



TimeSeeker said:


> [video=youtube;3ADjssgR7uI]Ceramic casing? What is that exactly?


That's the encapsulation of the electronics and crystal. See here: ETA SA Manufacture Horlogère Suisse: New Technologies


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## TimeSeeker

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Well, she's here!

playing around with the date and time settings while I took this pic.


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

2 months. Now, a period of alternate days wearing and storing at room temperature.

View attachment 1340202


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## zeta

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Got mine recently:

View attachment 1349843


Here's a movie (not mine) with this model:


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## vizi

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

I My Certina! 
View attachment 1350276
View attachment 1352943

Movement: Thermocompensated Quartz ETA 251.264.CEN PreciDrive, +/- 10 seconds/year


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## Sabresoft

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Well I have 56 days of data now, so here goes for my DS2:

View attachment 1358494


At 24 days it was projecting a SPY of -3.22 seconds and at 57 days, -3.6 SPY.

Looks like a good start. Especially for a non-COSC certified caliber. Obviously it likely would have passed had it been submitted.


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## Sabresoft

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



chris01 said:


> What was your wearing routine? Mine appears to be sensitive in this respect - about -3.5 with daily wear, and close to zero with alternate days' wear. After a full month in the latter mode, I think I'll try unworn for a few weeks.
> 
> I wonder if there is any real difference between the COSC and non-COSC versions. It seems that (assuming a 4 SPY step in calibration) both of our watches are as close to 'perfect' as they can reasonably be, and that the only extra feature is the actual test and the certificate. There would seem little point in ETA/Certina deliberately downgrading the non-COSC performance, as they claim the same +/- 10 SPY for all six models.


My wearing routine is actually quite sporadic as I have a large watch rotation, and so it usually only gets wrist time every two weeks.

As to the COSC/non-COSC, I suspect that there is no manufacturing differences, only that some candidates do the final exam (and hopefully pass) for a fee, and the others venture out into the world untested. After all the Seiko and Citizen HAQ models do not get COSC certification (and can't per Swiss rules), and yet still manage to pull off some impressive numbers.


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## Roarke

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



Sabresoft said:


> Chris01 has a dealer (in Spain) that he will recommend to you. I used them on his recommendation and they were good to deal with, and at a good price. I would send you the info but I am away from home today and don't have the info at hand. PM Chris01 and I'm sure that he will send you the info.


I'd just like to second everything Sabre has said - Chris01's contact in Spain was very easy to deal with and the prices were very competitive. I had a few questions during shipping and they responded often within minutes with the information I'd asked for.

For those wary about buying without seeing it in person, the only (slight) criticism I've heard is that the green dial is a bit more intense than the photography would indicate. Personally though, the only problem I'm having is that I want to keep looking at it all day - it's hard to get any work done!


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



webvan said:


> Getting hard to resist...I guess that I sell my Longines Flagship Perpetual Calendar I'll have an excuse to get one too...Anyone want to swap ? ;-)
> 
> In the meantime, is there a video somewhere showing how the watch works in chrono mode, especially how that 1/100th second hand moves around ?


Have a look at this: http://certina.com/sites/default/files/videos/ds-2_150sec._original_14611.mp4.mp4

You can see the chrono being started just after 1 minute into the video.

What happens is this:

Start the chrono: the 1/100 (plain hand) and 60 sec (hand with a small circle) hands start together. 
1/100 = 1 revolution per second, apparently smoothly **
60 sec = 1 revolution per minute, jumping between seconds

After 1 minute: the 1/100 hand stops at 12 while the 60 sec hand continues normally. The 30-minute and 12-hour hands jump to the next position as required. They don't move gradually between markers.

Stop the chrono: all the moving hands stop. If the 1/100 is already stopped at 12, it moves round to the current 1/100 second position.

You then have the task of reading 4 separate hands to get the time!

** One of the features of the new PowerDrive technology is the 200 steps per second drive. So the 1/100 hand may be jumping up to 200 times per second. Needs a slow-motion video to find out.

Has that helped to explain it?

On the other matter, the DS-2 is a great watch but I'd never give up a VHP PC to own one. Find something else to sell!


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Three months' data, and I am now going to leave it unworn for a month.

This may not be really significant, but it's interesting to look at the final week's data - the total variation (blue bars) shows a loss on each day it was worn, followed by a gain when unworn on the following day. The green SPY line shows it clearly. I'll look at this again later.

View attachment 1375757


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## quattro98

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

A quick photograph of my watch. I've removed the bracelet & replaced it with a Hadley Roma alligator strap on a RHD deployant buckle.

For those who are considering this watch, I bought it from the well-known dealer in Spain (thanks Chris for the recommendation). Juan was great to work with and the watch was shipped promptly. The only issue I had was that I ended up using Paypal because I couldn't get their website to work with a credit card.

I checked with the Hour Passion (Swatch group factory store) in New York and they did not stock the watch and the price was not competitive. I found that a little unusual because often products are priced more competitively in the US by the importer than overseas with a foreign exchange transaction.


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



quattro98 said:


> I don't know the answer to this. I purchased the watch from an authorized dealer, so I assume the international warranty applies and I could send it to the US Swatch service center. Being a quartz watch, I'm not too concerned about it.


Buying from a Certina AD you get a 2-year international warranty which (I hope I'm right here!) should be honoured by any Swatch Group service location. The Certina.com web site has worldwide dealer & service search pages and you can also read their warranty fine print.


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

As a result of a couple of PMs I have received recently, I'd like to clarify my position on pricing and AD recommendation, as some people seem to think that I am some kind of an expert in this area. Three months ago I did my own research, using the same tools that are available to anybody, and found a dealer offering a good price. I checked them out via the Certina web site, contacted them with some questions, made my purchase, and received an excellent service. Since then I have passed the AD's details on to others, some of whom have had the same good buying experience as I did.

I have not taken any further interest in the AD, or done any more research into prices. So if you want the cheapest price, please do your own research. If you want an AD who has done a good job in the past, but for whom I cannot speak on current prices or other sales matters, I'm happy to help.


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Here's the latest update and, prompted by Hans's helpful addition to my graph, I've changed it a bit and I'll add a detailed explanation.

View attachment 1387537


The graph shows a daily measurement since I started 99 days ago.

The vertical blue bars (using the right-hand vertical axis) show the current difference (Variation) between the starting time and the current time. The black bars mark the changes of wearing pattern.

All the other measurements are seconds per year, using the left-hand vertical axis.

From day 0 to day 60 I wore the watch every day (not at night, when it was left at ambient room temperature), and the SPY is shown in red.

From day 61 to day 90 I wore the watch only on alternate days, and the SPY is shown in green.

From day 91 onwards the watch is currently unworn, and the SPY is shown in brown.

The three markers on the left-hand axis show the average SPY for each of the three wearing patterns over the last 5 days of the measurement period.


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



everose said:


> Apologies if its been mentioned before but is there a wear pattern specified for this mvt?


The DS-2 instruction book says that Precidrive chronographs have quartz + TC that "enables them to achieve a precision of around +/- 10 seconds per year (under normal conditions of use)."

ETA's web page on the PreciDrive technology says "PreciDrive can achieve a precision which can pass the COSC chronometer certification, provided the watch is not exposed to impacts, and kept at a temperature of between 20°c and 30°c."

So, the answer is: not really.


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## Terry Buist

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Hi WUS'ers,
Im wondering if anybody in the USA has purchased from onewatchforyou.com in Spain?
I am curious if there are additional duties/ taxes due upon arrival to the States.
Currently they have neither of the DS2 models I like in stock, but Juan say possible mid-March.
Thanks for your time.


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## Roarke

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Hi Terry - I purchased a DS-2 from that site recently. There are some additional import duties that you have to pay, which I believe vary from state to state. I had it shipped into New York, and ended up paying an additional $37.15 USD ($27.15 in 'US Customs Duties' + $10.00 in 'Brokerage Charges'). So not too bad.

If you have it delivered to your home address just be aware that it is Cash-on-Delivery, meaning the UPS man cannot leave it at your door without payment. The window for delivery is often 2-4 hours, so for those of us working during the day it's a bit of a hassle. I had mine held overnight at a local UPS warehouse and went to pick it up (and pay that additional fee) after work, instead.

That's just my experience, hopefully it helps!


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## sean0810

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

The manual that comes with the watch states 'around 10 spy'. In any event it is off wrist in 30C temp consistently off by -24 spy and in some conditions far far worse (it lost 2 seconds in two days in an air con hotel room safe). It is now with Certina for repair. Funnily enough the girl at the counter thought there was something else wrong with the watch when the chronograph second timing hand flew around the dial instead of ticking!


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## TimeSeeker

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

131 days, -2 sec so far


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



VitekB said:


> Hi, could someone tell me how large is the case in terms of lug to lug length?


You'll find the info, together with what I hoped would be a reasonably complete set of data, here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f9/certina-ds-2-precidrive-chronograph-940252.html#post6979754


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## VitekB

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

It looks like....I have joined your team today! Honestly, DS-1 looks too simple now :/
View attachment 1539682


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## TimeSeeker

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

not a fan of the dial, but stll better than nothing.

View attachment 1541702


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## sean0810

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

My Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watch also went back to Swatch, because timekeeping was 24spy. After being examined I was informed:

THE WATCH'S TIMEKEEPING IS NOT WITHIN PUBLISHED TOLERANCE
THE ELECTRONIC MODULE IS FAULTY

The estimate listed the following service/parts (to be provided under warranty):

Full service chrono quartz
CASE BACK GASKET Ø35.50 X 0.61 X 0.95 
SPRING BAR SST LUG 22 BODYØ1.8 Ø0.9/1.0 
QUARTZ MOVEMENT CAL. 251.264 H1/6H 
STEEL CROWN
STEEL PUSHER
CRYSTAL GASKET Ø 35.50X0.57X0.85

It has since been returned to me after a long wait, and though it is too early to be certain, timekeeping does appear much improved. Moreover, the watch has polished almost back to new condition and they put in a new battery. All in all i am quite impressed at the level of service I received from Swatch.


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## zharik

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Hello!
I received my new three hand Certina DS-2 last week. I have chosen it because of simple design and PreciDrive movement. I really like accurate watches. So, I am very interested in technical details about F06.411. Any new information?
View attachment 1604376


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## chris01

*Re: Certina DS-2 Precidrive movements*



bish31 said:


> Hello.
> 
> Could someone please give me some information about this watch.
> 
> I have just recieved one for Christmas, the one with the green on the face.
> *DS-2 Chrono*
> 
> Ref.: C024.447.11.051.02
> 
> DS-2 Chrono | Certina
> 
> On setting the time and date i have noticed that the crown does not screw closed and just keeps turning, even when pushed right in. Is this normal?
> 
> As its a waterproof watch i would have thought the crown screwd tightly closed.
> 
> Any help much appreicated.
> 
> Many thanks


Your watch is working correctly. Have you read the instruction book? For a watch that is water resistant to 10 bar / 100 m it's not necessarily required to have a screw-down crown. I'd be more concerned about operating the crown or the chrono pushers under water. As mine never gets wet I can be quite relaxed about this. Enjoy your excellent Christmas present!


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## chris01

*Re: Certina DS-2 Precidrive movements*



igna said:


> Very good informative links.
> 
> Still I'm having trouble with Certina use of the "PreciDrive" term, because there are several models (DS and DS2) with their dials showing "PreciDrive" and they actually are not a COSC quatz, for example:
> 
> DS-2 | Certina
> 
> On top of that we have "PowerDrive" term, very similar looking term, making easy to bring more confusion.
> 
> Regards.


I don't think it's as complicated as it may seem.

*PreciDrive* is the name for all the new ETA thermocompensated movements. They are claimed to achieve COSC quartz performance (can't remember the exact numbers but they're not up to the standard that most of us here want).

*COSC* normally (and specifically in the case of the DS-2 LE model) refers to a watch with a movement that has been tested and certified by COSC. AFAIK, when applied to the DS-2, this does not imply any higher standard of performance than the uncertified models.

*PowerDrive* is another new ETA technology that provides a higher precision of movement of the hands (NOT of timekeeping), for example allowing the DS-2 to feature a 1/100 second chronograph that actually moves in reproducible 10 millisecond jumps. This technology can be used with or without PreciDrive. I don't know whether PreciDrive always includes PowerDrive. I think that PowerDrive also includes the ability for the watch manufacturer to program various features/complications into their chosen movement.

*Certina* claims accuracy of around +/- 10 SPY (depending on the environment) for *all *the DS-2 models.


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

*How to buy a Certina watch*

Given the very limited promotion of the Certina brand outside Europe and a few other areas, and only 2 ADs in the US, it's not surprising that our North American friends may be reluctant to commit themselves to buying unseen from an unknown source. However, a fair number of DS-2s have made their way across the Atlantic, without any issues AFAIK.

So here's my suggested checklist:

1. Buying unseen is frequently the only option for many brands. If you like the pictures and specification, and you've read good things from people you have come to trust, then why not?

2. Browse the certina.com website for the model you're interested in. There's a Watchfinder page where you can search for, e.g. PRECIDRIVE. Unfortunately Certina gives almost no detailed info for any of their watches, but you can download a user manual that *may* have specific data for your chosen model. Note the model number.

3. Find a dealer. I found an excellent Spanish dealer whom I have recommended to numerous forum members and have not heard of any problems or issues with their purchases. You can Google the model number and should find some German and Spanish dealers (also Swedish and Polish) offering good prices, often with free shipping around the world. I have no idea about getting the VAT discounted if you're outside the EU but you can ask! You may also find that the dealer's website has some more detailed info about the watch.

4. Check your chosen dealer. Certina.com has a searchable list of ADs so you can verify that you'll get the 2-year international warranty.

5. Also, check for customer service in your country. Certina is part of the Swatch Group, so warranty and service is usually through a local SG service centre.

6. Now buy it!


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## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

As promised in an earlier post, here is the result of my bracelet refurbishment. The bracelet's large polished centre sections were noticeably scratched after 14 months of almost daily wear, and instead of repolishing them I decided to try a brushed finish. This form of bracelet is a Certina 'house style', used both part-polished and fully-brushed, and I think I prefer the latter.

New watch:
View attachment 2604394

After refinishing:
View attachment 2604386


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## watchcrank_tx

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



Omega Ronin said:


> I think their "sister" store (same owner) is also in Las Vegas. That is where I got mine. Decent service and delivery was overnight....


Maybe I should have checked the US ADs again before ordering from Spain. When I last inquired a year ago, neither NY nor LV had the Precidrive Chrono. Good to know that has changed.


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## gaijin

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



ronalddheld said:


> Where is the LV store?










HOUR PASSION BOUTIQUE
ARIA Resort & Casino
3730 Las Vegas Boulevard South
LAS VEGAS, NV, 89158
United States

Or

Hour Passion Las Vegas
*Address:* Las Vegas Blvd S., 3730, Las Vegas, NV 89158
*Phone:*(702) 795-0477
*Hours:**Open today* · 10:00 am - 12:00 am

De nada ;-)


----------



## Omega Ronin

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



gaijin said:


> HOUR PASSION BOUTIQUE
> ARIA Resort & Casino
> 3730 Las Vegas Boulevard South
> LAS VEGAS, NV, 89158
> United States
> 
> Or
> 
> Hour Passion Las Vegas
> *Address:* Las Vegas Blvd S., 3730, Las Vegas, NV 89158
> *Phone:*(702) 795-0477
> *Hours:**Open today* · 10:00 am - 12:00 am
> 
> De nada ;-)


Yep, right where I got this one
View attachment 2643634


----------



## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



Colourise said:


> Hi
> 
> I got my DS 2 PreciDrive Chronograph last week.
> 
> I have a question about the chronograph function of the watch.
> 
> If the chronograph is stopped in the middle of timing, by pressing the button at the 2 o'clock position are the motors or motor that drive the chronograph function still drawing power from the battery or are all the chronograph "hands" just locked at whatever position they are stopped at and no further power is drawn?
> 
> Thanks


I don't know and there's probably no way to find out, since Certina are pretty useless and ETA won't talk to you. However, it seems very unlikely that the motors would still be drawing power while doing nothing useful. If you left the chrono 'stopped' but not 'reset' you might find the battery dead or the stalled motors burned out after a few days. I can't really see a difference between the two states, since pressing the start button has exactly the same effect in either case. It seems quite safe to ignore this non-issue and just enjoy your new watch. Congratulations, by the way!


----------



## svorkoetter

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



chris01 said:


> I don't know and there's probably no way to find out, since Certina are pretty useless and ETA won't talk to you. However, it seems very unlikely that the motors would still be drawing power while doing nothing useful. If you left the chrono 'stopped' but not 'reset' you might find the battery dead or the stalled motors burned out after a few days. I can't really see a difference between the two states, since pressing the start button has exactly the same effect in either case. It seems quite safe to ignore this non-issue and just enjoy your new watch. Congratulations, by the way!


Yes, the hands won't use any power while stopped.

The motors in a watch, at least all the motors I've seen in watches, have a permanent magnet armature. As such, they exhibit cogging, which holds the motor in position even with no power applied (it's just the permanent magnet trying to stay aligned with the cores of the stators). Find a cheap toy hobby motor, and try turning it by hand with no power connected. You'll find that there are six positions, 60 degrees apart (for a typical three-slot two-pole hobby motor), that the motor will want to stay in, and it takes some force to displace it from those positions. The same idea applies to the motors in watches.

I suspect that this is why quartz chronos have a feature to allow you to realign the hands. A really hard shock, strong enough to overcome this resting torque, could move the hands from where they last stopped without the watch electronics knowing about it.


----------



## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Here's the last 12 months' performance data.

View attachment 3210834


Some explanation:
1. Vertical blue bars are the total daily variation in seconds from day zero, plotted against the RH axis.
2. The purple line is the YTD calculated SPY, plotted against the LH axis. Obviously, at day 365 this has the same value, 1.72, as the variation.
3. Green line is the YTD calculated SPY, starting at day 212, when I adopted a new regular wearing pattern.
4. Black dots, with month and value caption, are the variations for each calendar month, extrapolated to an SPY value.
5. Red dots on the zero axis indicate the days when the watch was unworn.

What does all this tell us? 
Over a year of mixed wear it shows +1.72 SPY.
A period of mostly regular 6 days/week wear gives +3.18 SPY.
Monthly SPY values aren't easily correlated with seasonal factors because of the changes in wearing pattern.
Unworn, the watch runs faster than with daily wear. The continuous unworn period from day 78 to 87 shows around +8 SPY, but this is based on only two measurements.
And so on ...

I'll keep the current wearing pattern running until the leap second on 30 June.


----------



## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



tmathes said:


> I've been following this entire thread with great interest as the new DS-8 moonphase has piqued my interest. Glad to see someone turning out new quartz movements that improve on the typical +/- 15 sec/month accuracy.
> 
> Out of curiosity, has anyone with one of these newer DS series watches gone though a battery replacement yet? Was it difficult or did you have to take it somewhere to get it replaced (ie needed special tools)? Any pictures of the case back don't indicate notches that would make a battery change an easy affair.


My DS-2 is one of the earliest, if not the first, PreciDrive watch reported on this forum. It's 18 months old, with a claimed battery life of 2+ years, so I'd not really expect that anybody would have changed a battery yet.

DS watches have at least 2 types of back - screw in and press in. Mine is the latter and it has two rather unusual long, curved notches at 11 to 1 and 5 to 7. I'm not sure what I'll do when the time arrives, although I may be interested in investigating the rate adjustment feature. There was a report of a DS-2 back removal with a simple lever-type tool, but the poster went quiet after that.


----------



## tmathes

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



chris01 said:


> My DS-2 is one of the earliest, if not the first, PreciDrive watch reported on this forum. It's 18 months old, with a claimed battery life of 2+ years, so I'd not really expect that anybody would have changed a battery yet.
> 
> DS watches have at least 2 types of back - screw in and press in. Mine is the latter and it has two rather unusual long, curved notches at 11 to 1 and 5 to 7. I'm not sure what I'll do when the time arrives, although I may be interested in investigating the rate adjustment feature. There was a report of a DS-2 back removal with a simple lever-type tool, but the poster went quiet after that.


I found this Yootoob video, is this what you were describing? The removal seemed quite simple, much simpler than when I use a case knife on some other watches (quite clumsily at times to my chagrin):


----------



## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Now for the big one, 480 days of timing:

View attachment 4451570


Here's the key:
1. Vertical blue bars are the daily variations from the starting setting, plotted against the RH axis. Final value +3.1 seconds.
2. The red dots below the zero axis show the days when the watch was worn (daytime only).
3. The purple line is the cumulative YTD SPY value, plotted against the LH axis. Final value +2.4 SPY.
4. The black dots with black on white labels show the variation for each calendar month, calculated as an annual SPY rate.
5. The light blue line shows the cumulative SPY over a period when the watch was worn full time. Final value +0.5 SPY.
5. The green line shows the cumulative SPY over a period when the watch was worn 6 days per week. Final value +3.1 SPY.
7. The brown line shows the cumulative SPY over a period when the watch was worn 3 days per week. Final value +5.8 SPY.
8. Starting at day 77 is a 9-day period when the watch was unworn (and untested). The rate over this period was about +8 SPY.

In its present state of tuning the watch performs almost perfectly if worn daily. Reduced wear gives an increased rate, and for only occasional wear it would benefit from a small rate reduction. The seasonal effect of ambient temperature seems small, considerably less than I see for my VHPs.

That is the end of this timing run, and I'll be reporting on something else quite soon.


----------



## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Now the bad news: it appears that the DS-2 chrono is not rate adjustable by the end user. I have made a few tests, using procedures similar to the official ones for other ETA TCs, and have found no measurable effect on the rate.

Here is the interior of my watch, showing the deeply recessed C+ and C- contacts. I have been told that these will only work with special test equipment, and that the markings are no longer present on current movements. This appears to be a similar case to that of the Breitling Aerospace B79.

View attachment 4655682


----------



## chris01

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



tmathes said:


> There were a few items of interest to me: 27 jewels in a quartz movement and 5 coils.
> 
> The Seiko 9F uses only 9 jewels (but is only a 3 hander); I know chronos use more jewels than a simple 3 hander but that number in any quartz movement is surprising.
> 
> Are the 5 coils (I assume they're inductors) part of the TC design or related to the chrono section (maybe both?). I'm assuming those coils are associated with timing circuits but I don't quite get why so many.


There's obviously a fair bit of technology in there. I'd assumed that the coils were associated with the stepping motors. There are 7 hands and a date, and quite a lot of them seem to be driven independently. <just checked> In fact the ETA web page says that there are 5 motors.

I'd guess:
1. Time: HMsD
2. Chrono: centre S
3. Chrono: centre S/100
4. Chrono: 30 min
5. Chrono: 12 hr

The TC and quartz stuff is all ceramic-encapsulated.


----------



## igna

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Some bad and good things in this few days with the DS-2:

The seconds hand visibility is compromised by high traffic: All 4 central hands at some point shades the seconds hand. The minute hand when its close to 25~35 minutes and the hour between 5~7 hours make the seconds lecture hard or impossible. The 2 chrono ones can be put out if interference by starting the chrono and stooping them at 8s 80/100 (or other combination). But then, the dial becomes overloaded with hands, and its distracting for reading the time.

The minute hand runs over the minute marks, so the current minute its not pointed but shaded. I'm not very used to this indication way, and sometimes I have to check twice. I understand there is room needed for the 1/100 scale, so minute markers are moved into a smaller circle.

Dial termination its fine, having some details (only visible when looking with a magnifying glass).

The overall look its great, the strap is really nice, so its the case back with the turtle logo. It has the IAHH so it will be my travel watch. Lume is scarce but its visible early in the morning as eyes are very sensible in the night.

In resume: I really like it. If I had the option to tell the maker what I would change: Swap the seconds hands, making the small one be the chrono and the big one the watch one, and shorten a bit the minute hand.

I will start an accuracy tracking, using the EM pulse + NTP, reporting monthly.

Regards, 
Igna.


----------



## GlennO

*re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Unfortunately the L2L length on these is a bit long for me, but I just noticed that there is now a Ti version which looks very nice and may be of interest to some. Sorry if it's old news, but I haven't seen it before.

View attachment 5164034


----------



## tmathes

*My new Certina DS-8 Moonphase*

Hi everyone,

I pulled the trigger last week on the new for 2015 Certina DS-8, their new moonphase chronograph based on the ETA G10.962 Precidrive movement in other chronographs This model doesn't have the 1/100th second feature of the DS-2 but adds a moon phase dial in the upper left hand corner. I checked ETA's web site, the variant of the movement isn't listed so I'm guessing Certina for now has exclusive use of the movement.

This is the Certina web page with my model:

DS-8 Chrono Moon Phase | Certina

I ordered it from Onewatchforyou.com last Wednesday night, shipped Thursday and made it from Spain to central North Carolina with 3 working days. Impressive shipping speed! Juan was a top-flight guy to deal with, he provided several images of it before I bought it and answered every question in great detail. Thanks Juan!! I can heartily recommend him to US buyers, this transaction was barely more difficult than buying domestically. The only difference is paying UPS their customs/import fees and duties, which amounted to $25.38.

Now about the watch itself. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.

View attachment 6110778


View attachment 6110786


View attachment 6110794


The brown leather strap came with a butterfly deployant from the factory. Nice touch I though:

View attachment 6110802


One nifty touch to the strap I've not seen before: there's a small loop that prevents the sliding strap keeper loop from moving too far forward (it's the white loop in the upper part of the image below). I wasn't sure what that as for at first but it's a nice touch. The strap is nicely done, looks to be the equivalent quality of a Duke Hirsch strap.

View attachment 6110834


The watch is much nicer in person than the renders you find on-line. Why product companies do this is beyond me. The watch 'wears' a bit larger than I expected due to the thin bezel but it's not out ridiculously oversized. If you have an approximately 7" wrist or larger, the watch looks good on your wrist. Anything smaller than 6 3/4" and it gets a bit dodgy.

A few observations and quirks so far:

- The crown has 3 positions: closed (position 1, or P1), middle (position 2 or P2), and fully extended (position 3 or P3). P2 works like most any other quartz or mechanical watch, it allows you to do a quick date advance/reverse. In that position you can also make adjustments to the chrono hands if they're off (mine weren't) with the upper and lower pushers.

One interesting observation so far: the chrono sweep second hand seems to 'wobble' a bit even when not being used when I look at the dial periodically. Sometimes it's dead on the 12 marker, sometimes it's a bit left of center. It is not parallax error. The chrono sweep hand is motor driven so I have no idea why it does this. One 'trick' I did find is that if the sweep hand is a bit off, pull the crown to P2, that makes the sweep second hand do a 360 degree turn and it seems to get it re-centered. Strange but seems to do the trick.

- P3 hacks the movement, adjusts time as in any other watch and will manually advance the date between 12am and 3am. What is odd though is it will *not* move the moon phase. The moon phase is motor controlled, it is not mechanical in my other moon phase quartz (Seiko SRX003). To adjust the moon phase, the watch must have the crown in P3 and you use the pushers to adjust it.

This is one of my first beefs with the design: first, you have to hack the movement to adjust the moon phase. It should have been the chrono adjust in P3 as that's a one-time thing and adjusting the moon phase will likely happen more often, that should be the P2 adjustment. The second beef is how to adjust the moon phase.

A stepper motor advances the moon wheel in what looks like quarter day increments and a single push does nothing to step the wheel one increment up/down. You have to hold it down and make sure you catch the proper 'stop' point you want to hit. Kind of a dumb idea in my book. I've hacked the movement a few times puttering around with it so I've not see the moon phase dial spinning yet. I assume it works but haven't seen it advancing on it's own yet. I'm also not sure yet if it moves in 6 hr. increments or full day increments (like my Seiko does).

Third beef is the short end of the sweep second hand hides the "0" point of the second indicator (bottom of the dial). Now I know why the Speedmaster-style location of the second hand is ideal; I wish ETA did the same here.

Some nifty things about the chrono: it has a lap feature like a digital watch. Pressing the top pusher starts the chrono, a 2nd press stops it, bottom pusher resets the whole thing. Upper right dial is elapsed mintues, the big digital dial in that same subdial is elapsed hours. That subdial is motor driven too, when reset it doesn't move backward to "0" but will spin forward to get back to zero; slick to see it reset. When you press the lower pusher, the sweep second hand will stop but a 2nd push will jump the seconds hand (and minute/hour indicators if needed) to the present chrono time.

That's about it for now, I've not started any accuracy tests yet since I still need to get this moon phase setting right (don't forget, when I set the m/phase I have to stop the watch). If anyone has questions, pose them here and I'll try to get them answered best I can. I'm guessing there aren't many who own this watch (yet) and in particular few if any owners in the US since there are no Certain ADs here. They did recently pop up on US gray market web sites but the brown dial one has not to date.


----------



## tmathes

*Re: My new Certina DS-8 Moonphase*



chris01 said:


> A very interesting watch. Can you explain exactly how each of the subdials works? They are all a bit unusual.


Upper left is the moon phase. The moon/stars disk under the dial face is bigger than it seems, the white tick mark at the top/bottom of the subdial are fixed to the moon disk itself. The upper tick mark shows the exact day in the phase, the bottom tick mark is only visible when in 1st quarter. 3rd quarter or full moon (as show in the openings). From where we sit in the lunar cycle, no tick marks will show below, that should happen tomorrow at the earliest (14th day in the cycle). You can see in that subdial the white tick mark on top is between day 13 and 14 in the lunar cycle (it was around 10am EST when I took these shots, as you can see from the time on the dial).

Bottom subdial is the regular time sweep second hand.

Upper right dial is the elapsed chrono minutes and hours. The dial pointer itself is minutes and moves in discrete steps. The digital display at the 0 position is elapsed hours. It also moves in discrete steps. That's why I said those are motor driven and mechanically coupled to the chrono sweep hand.

What's quirky about this display is in two of the dials the 'sweeping' tick mark is underneath the dial, not above it. So the seconds subdial, for example, is the white tick mark in the images and sweeps below the dial. In the 2nd image you can make out a white mark that's at the 2-3 second position, that's the watch's seconds hand/pointer. The slits in the subdial are asymmetrical since they're just punched out areas from the dial face. Some of the metal had to be left there to keep the subdial in place.

Like I said, it's an interesting dial design in that respect.


----------



## tmathes

*Re: My new Certina DS-8 Moonphase*



SPACE-DWELLER said:


> Furthermore (and I believe that no one has ever mentioned this in any review of the Certina DS-8 Moonphase:
> 
> If you Google an old Certina DS model (vintage model), you will notice the intertwined "Cc" logo on the dial that Certina uses back in time...
> 
> Now compare with the cut-out section of the seconds hands dial at six o'clock on the Certina DS-8 Moonphase:
> 
> You will notice that Certina actually "revived" the old "Cc" logo with the cut-out "Cc"...
> 
> I hope that you get what I mean... Wanted to post pics to clarify but as said, my post count is too low to do so.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk


I assume this is what you mean? (my hand is shaky with a mouse to 'draw' the red semi-circles so my apologies)

View attachment 6363817


I looked for images on-line of old Certinas, the double "C" logo didn't seem to be just for the old DS models but it was Certina's company logo. This is one better examples I found:

View attachment 6363929


Now it explains why they did the cut out like that.

The cut out for the seconds sub-dial are indeed like the old Certina interlocked "C" logo, that looks like an homage to their past. Since the brand is not distributed widely in the US I had no idea they used this logo. Nice design 'easter egg' to honor to their history and excellent catch Space-Dweller!


----------



## Tom-HK

*Re: My new Certina DS-8 Moonphase*

So, I have had my DS-2 for several months and it's about time to put down a few thoughts.

This is one of the biggest and heaviest watches in my collection, but it's entirely manageable and until I acquired the Morgenwerk I hadn't really given any thought at all to the size and weight of the DS-2. It is the only chronograph in my collection, and I think it's likely to remain that way. I'm not a sporty person by any stretch of the imagination, and one representative chrono is plenty for me. The chrono is most likely to be run for a few seconds just in order to get the chrono hands clear of the seconds sub-dial.

And it's the seconds sub-dial that is really my only complaint with this watch. Well, I could complain about the date not being perpetual and the rate being unadjustable, but those are common gripes with all new PreciDrive movements. The chrono hands, though, are a minor annoyance that other PD implementations might not share. The breadth and length of the tail end of the chrono hands is sufficient to obscure the top few seconds on the 6 o'clock sub dial, and those seconds are important to me as a HAQer.

My only other grumble is that it can be a bit tricky to read the minutes, due to the alignment of the tip of the minute hand with markings that aren't minutes, but that is something that I am sure I would get used to if I were to wear this watch regularly. My DS-2 has been almost entirely unworn and is currently running at 12.8 SPY after 103 days. It may do better if it were worn more regularly.

When I acquired this watch, the question of whether the rate was adjustable was still up in the air. Photos of early iterations showed + and - terminals, but no-one had attempted to adjust one. My movement has no + or - terminals and a series of e-mails back and forth with ETA revealed that the rate is adjustable only by the brand and that the + and - terminals that appear on early PD movements were included somewhat erroneously, as a legacy from happier times.

I have bought some gems and some real dross, over the past twelve months, and the DS-2 is definitely one of the good ones. Not in my top five, perhaps, but a watch that I am nevertheless rather pleased to own. The build quality is good and aside from being slightly off-spec. it functions reliably. Having been mostly unworn, the DS-2 hasn't, perhaps, had the fairest run over the last three months, but I shall wear it more in the new year and see if my opinion changes.

View attachment 6492033


----------



## chris01

*Re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



stefen said:


> Does Ds2 Precidrive chrono have EOL or no? Does anyone know for sure? Certina seems to be sure about it, but ETA says no? What is happening anyway?


I have seen the claimed battery life in Certina and ETA documentation ranging from 3 to 6 years. My watch must be one of the oldest around and I've had it from new (fresh from the manufacturer) for 26 months. No sign of EOL yet. The Certina user manual states quite clearly that EOL is indicated by the small second hand jumping by 4 seconds and I can see no reason to doubt this. If you have seen anything different from ETA then please show your source.


----------



## Andy D

*Re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



chris01 said:


> Just to say that if anybody is looking to buy one at a good price, I can recommend my supplier. No personal interest in this, other than as a satisfied customer. PM me for info.


Can you tell me your supplier? I will say you referred me.


----------



## chris01

*Re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



Andy D said:


> Can you tell me your supplier? I will say you referred me.


PM sent (we don't post commercial links, except to forum sponsors).


----------



## den_penta

*Re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Hi all!
Bought mine DS-2 Ltd (#0435 of 1888) in the middle of June 2017.
Too short time for real statistics, but here some I want to share:

1. Good news.
It is really TC. No correlations between day's average temperature (or day to day changes in Temp) and watch speed change.







Absolutely random distribution of daily error and temperature changes.
Doesn't matter do I wear watch or not (I have statistic with all these parameters).
Of course it's just 3.5 summer months and I'll update it after full year's circle.

One which I own shows pretty good total rate:







After initial my hand's set-error of -0,5 sec. it gains only -2,1 for all this months.
I calculate it as -6 seconds per year.
Much better than mentioned in COSC certificate 0,07 sec. per day (which is about +/- 25 seconds per year).

2. But also some digits looks strange.







There is day's average error from June to Sept.
For days when I wear my watch and separately for days when I leave it at home.
So, first result was exact what I expect to see: worn watch goes slowly. Leaved on table they are faster.
But... It's changes from July (both result are equal) and now absolutely opposite! Zero error when I wear DS-2 and -0,02 sec a day when I leave them home.

So, sorry for my English,
hope this will be interesting for someone.
Den


----------



## PubBoy

*Re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



Sabresoft said:


> Just picked up my DS2 from the UPS depot. Sitting in my car waiting for a car wash, so here is a quick pic and first observations.
> 
> View attachment 1297148
> 
> 
> First impressions:
> - neat box only slightly spoiled by a tear in the (paper) covering on the back. Like the neat compartment for the manual.
> 
> - The green is brighter than the web pictures led me to believe. But does look pretty neat. Quite a contrast from the dark red hands on the Skyhawk Red Arrows that I am wearing today.
> 
> - Time was off by 9 hours (we are UTC -7) so must have been set to factory time in Switzerland, not local Spanish time(?).
> 
> - It was also off by about 9 seconds, but there's no guarantee that it was set exactly.
> 
> - I like the way the chronograph works compared to the Miros & CW C70, with the large hand doing 1/100 ths, and the minutes on the small dial (versus minutes on the large dial and 1/10 ths on the small dial).
> 
> - Just set it against the Skyhawk and will start a test this weekend as I do an update on the other 3 (I'll start a test on the Sinn again too at the same time).
> 
> Going into the wash now so gotta go.


That looks killer!

Which Sinn are you comparing it with?


----------



## Sabresoft

*Re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*



PubBoy said:


> That looks killer!
> 
> Which Sinn are you comparing it with?


The Sinn UX, which I just happen to be wearing today.


----------



## Flighty7T34

There appears to be a variant of the Certina DS-2 which is called the DS-2 Precidrive Flyback.
Does anyone know exactly what this "Flyback" functionality actually is?

I have been wearing a Certina DS Sapphire chronograph daily for a few months. I do really enjoy this watch. It has split second times and a 1/100th hand. The night time luminosity is excellent.


----------



## watchcrank_tx

Flighty7T34 said:


> There appears to be a variant of the Certina DS-2 which is called the DS-2 Precidrive Flyback.
> Does anyone know exactly what this "Flyback" functionality actually is?
> 
> I have been wearing a Certina DS Sapphire chronograph daily for a few months. I do really enjoy this watch. It has split second times and a 1/100th hand. The night time luminosity is excellent.
> View attachment 14667589


Welcome to Watchuseek! 

I've not looked into the DS-2 Precidrive Flybacks in detail yet, but a flyback chronograph is one in which the chrono can be reset to 0 without stopping it running, making switching from timing one thing to timing another more or less instantaneous, in contrast to a conventional chronograph needing to be stopped and reset before it can be started anew. (The term is commonly confused with simply having chrono hands which snap back to 0 instantly, but that is incorrect.) The DS-2 Precidrive Flyback I've seen before had an extra pusher at ten o'clock, and I assumed that pusher activated the flyback function, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Angler

This is a very nice looking watch. I've just purchased a Certina Diver and look forward to experiencing it's quality and finish.


----------



## HEQAdmirer

*Re: Certina DS 2 PreciDrive watches*

Very nice watch! I have a DS Eagle Precidrive that has gained 4 seconds over a one year time period.


----------



## snowman40

I have a DS-8 (Moon complication) and I needed to swap the battery.

The back popped off with no problem, but it won't go back on for love nor money! (I have a proper watch back press that has worked on the vast majority of my watches - The exception was a Sekonda!).

Not very impressed with this, to be honest - a press back seemed 'cheap' for this watch and the fact it's not going back on just reinforces that impression.

Otherwise, I'd agree they're good watches for the money.

M


----------



## Tomc1944

Just received my DS-2 chronograph and love it. It has the press on back and no screw down crown.


----------



## johncolescarr

Hi,
Recently developed a fascination with HAQ and really liking the watch in title.
Prices are very keen, but want to make sure this particular movement has the independent jumping hour hand. I’ve looked everywhere including Certina website and cannot find anywhere whether the movement has a jumping hour hand. Anyone own one that can confirm?

thanks in advance

john


----------



## Barbababa

ETA Chronograph 251.264 BD | Manufacture Horlogère Suisse | ETA SA


Hours, minutes, small jumping second at 6 o’clock Date display in window Chronograph with 2 push buttons Counters 1/10th of seconds, 60 seconds, 60 minutes, 12 hours Functions : ADD, SPLIT Stop second / stop motor Time-zone mechanism 27 jewels PowerDrive / PreciDrive Theoretical battery’s...




www.eta.ch




I would have said no, but on the eta page it says time zone mechanism... And the sticky for DS-2 says it does 
*sorry, i missed the 2 hander part... se my answer below


----------



## Econoline

My diver model does not, very much wish it did. 

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Barbababa

Econoline said:


> My diver model does not, very much wish it did.
> 
> Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


...


----------



## Barbababa

*the 2 hander have the F06.411 according to Certina webpage. NO jumping hour hand in that caliber


----------



## watchcrank_tx

johncolescarr said:


> Hi,
> Recently developed a fascination with HAQ and really liking the watch in title.
> Prices are very keen, but want to make sure this particular movement has the independent jumping hour hand. I've looked everywhere including Certina website and cannot find anywhere whether the movement has a jumping hour hand. Anyone own one that can confirm?
> 
> thanks in advance
> 
> john


The DS2 Precidrive chronograph - the original subject of this thread - has an independently jumping hour hand.


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## DaveM

watchcrank_tx said:


> The DS2 Precidrive chronograph - the original subject of this thread - has an independently jumping hour hand.


OK -- it makes sense
VHP PC had IAHH using mechanics
3-hand Precidrive have only one hand-motor, no mechanics, no IAHH ( I think ) 
Chronograph Precidrive has separate seconds and minute/hour motor, electronic IAHH ( I think )
New VHP all have separate seconds & minute/hour motors, electronic IAHH


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## Al632

I recently sent a DS titanium with the ETA 251.265 to swatch for a service and was told that it was too old and would I like to swap it for one from "the loyalty catalogue " at £100 for a quartz £150 for an Auto or £155 for a chrono.
so I have just paid £155 for the green DS flyback chrono.
Be interesting to see if it's worth the £700+ retail price


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