# tom cruise's watch in top gun maverick



## dinexus

I thought I remembered hearing rumblings awhile back that it would be an IWC (especially given their involvement in the Miramar flight school with this year's Top Gun releases) but the new Maverick trailer dropped today, and that bracelet and case profile look nothing like anything IWC's made to date. Let the speculation begin.


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## Burgs

A lot of the FA-18 aircrew are wearing issued Garmin Fenix watches. Could it be that?


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## MKN

Looks like one of the old Porsche IWCs or Orfina to me


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## cuthbert

Of course it was a Porsche Design by Orfina with 5100. That was one of the mechanical chronographs you could find in the 80s and the one of the 5100 regularly issued to NATO pilots along to Tutimas, Heuers, Lemanias, Arctos etc...etc...










That particular watch was lent by a real pilot because Cruise was wearing something gaudy and completely unappropriate for a military pilot. Brigitte Nielsen also wore a PD Orfina in Beverly Hills Cop II, and it appeared in one of Chuck Norris films.

American pilots were not issued these watches like European ones but they were popular as private purchase, this is the way a NATO issued 1717 looks like:









Cruise and its legitimate owner however had a civil reference 1716 like mine.

Oh, in the 80s it costed three times a manual Daytona and the Lemania 5100 was selected by NATO in 1978 against the Valjoux 7750 because it could withstand 7g without losing time, therefore we can say it was the last real mechanical military watch ever issued for its use along with the Poljot 31659 of the same era.


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## James A

Here Monochrome claim to know the watch. I agree with them that it does look like a Porsche Design chronograph but I'm not sure they have exactly the right version.

https://monochrome-watches.com/top-...-design-orfina-chronograph-black-pvd-spotted/

They show an Orfina badged watch but I think it was the PD logo version as cuthbert shows above.









Nevertheless Ferdinand Porsche came up with design that was widely copied and heavily influenced that Nato watch look.

More here on how Ferdinand produced this interesting watch.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f11/orfi...nograph-everything-you-need-know-4943543.html

Regards,


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## cuthbert

That article has a lot of inaccuracies : in particular the Valjoux 7750 was presented to the pubblic (not released) in 1974.

I got my PD restored by Orfina and I was told they never made watches before late 1975.

For the images of the film, in the original Top Gun it was a very well worn 5100 (the PVD was in reality just a paint) while in the trailer of the new movie it appears it's a brand new watch.


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## James A

cuthbert said:


> That article has a lot of inaccuracies : in particular the Valjoux 7750 was presented to the pubblic (not released) in 1974.


Thanks for the input - here Watch wiki confirms your year for 1974.

https://www.watch-wiki.net/index.php?title=Valjoux_7750

Interested about all the other inaccuracies so I can correct for future reference.

Regards,


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## cuthbert

James A said:


> Thanks for the input - here Watch wiki confirms your year for 1974.
> 
> https://www.watch-wiki.net/index.php?title=Valjoux_7750
> 
> Interested about all the other inaccuracies so I can correct for future reference.
> 
> Regards,


I think the issue is that PD claimed to have designed this chrono in 1973, perhaps on the drawing board they thought to use a different movement.

Regarding the 7750, it was PRESENTED (not production start) the 1st of July 1974, the start of production is unknown but we know it was stopped in 1975, almost immediately, after having produced at least 100.000 movements, a stock that lasted for a long, long time.

Andretti´s picture in your article is useful because it was taken at the Italian GP, 1975 (cars still had the high air intake that was outlawed in 1976) that took place about the 7th of September, so September 1975 is a "safe" date for the first release of the PD Orfina and the 7750.

The first 7750 powered chrono I know is indeed the Orfina, Heuer and Breitling introduced new models (the Montreal for instance) after discontinuing the Cal.12 (supposedly the 7750 was cheaper) in 1977, Longines also made an early 7750 that I have, almost identical to the Montreal, about that time (1997, 1978) for the Israeli Air Force, this is mine:


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## cuthbert

Oh, this is an interesting page on military issues Porsche Design Orfina, definitely the last real pilot chonograph of the West, therefore appropriate for Maverick:

Research project: Orfina/Porsche-Design "MILITARY" chronograph dial variations


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## danimal107

Cuthbert... Thanks for posting that educational info.


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## coffeebreak

Thanks for all your informative posts. I was just re-watching Top Gun on a flight last night and wondered what watch he was wearing


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## Nokie

Good answers everyone!


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## cuthbert

More pics!


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## 04z

Good posts Cuthbert


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## mav

I have a feeling, a loving feeling that is, that it might be the newer PD P6510, a modern reissue of the original Chronograph 1.

The bracelet shares a similar pattern as the one from the trailer screenshot in the OP's post.


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## ICUdude

This is a fun thread. Nice posts guys. I'm pretty stoked about the new movie and seeing the watch in action.


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## I Like em BIG ! !

mav said:


> I have a feeling, a loving feeling that is, that it might be the newer PD P6510, a modern reissue of the original Chronograph 1.
> 
> The bracelet shares a similar pattern as the one from the trailer screenshot in the OP's post.


Shouldn't a guy named, Mav... know?!

(You even look like him!)


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## mav

I Like em BIG ! ! said:


> Shouldn't a guy named, Mav... know?!
> 
> (You even look like him!)


I'm sworn to secrecy!


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## James A

mav said:


> I have a feeling, a loving feeling that is, that it might be the newer PD P6510, a modern reissue of the original Chronograph 1.


It makes sense that they would update to a newer model. Here are some stills form the 'Behind the scenes trailer'.
































Nothing super clear - think we need to wait till more publicity photos come out. I always thought the first movie was a little cheesy but as I look through the trailers for watch images - I gotta say the flying scenes look very good.

Regards,


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## G1Ninja

I love the original Top Gun. I will always believe that is Tom Cruise's best movie. And a perfect movie. But it's also the first movie I ever saw him in, so he is Maverick to me.

The new Top Gun seems to be a nostalgia trip so far with real flying similar to what Tom Cruise is doing in the Mission Impossible series. I'm not crazy about the director going from what he did with Tron Legacy, another 80s movie sequel.


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## Burgs

I don't know if everybody knows, or not, but the P-51 Mustang shown in some of the previews is Tom Cruise's personally owned aircraft. He has been a Mustang pilot for quite a number of years.


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## Bob1035

cuthbert


Off topic, but what car is that in your picture? I consider myself a gearhead but don't recognize the emblem!


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## Burgs

That's the all new electric Euro Yugo. It features turn signals, AM radio and same-day acceleration 0 to 60mph.


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## Toonces

I didn't know Tom Cruise flew his own P-51. That's legit.


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## Burgs

In addition to his Mustang, he has a Pitts Special too. I wonder if he's logging his 2 seat FA-18 time. :-!


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## James A

Mystery solved and another begins it seems. I decided to contact PD to see if they had any involvement in the new Top Gun movie. Turns out they did.

Here is the email reply from them...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Axxxx,

Thank you for your e-mail from 28 January 2020.

We can confirm that Porsche Design supplied the watch for the new Top Gun Maverick movie.

Yours sincerely

Jesse Djan & Nicolas Pollehn
Porsche Design Contact

Porsche Design Contact
P.O. Box 120144
D - 10591 Berlin
Telephone: +49 (0)1806/800-0-911 (0.20 € per call from German landline, max. 0,60€ per minute from German mobile network; charges for calls from outside Germany may vary)
E-Mail: [email protected]
Internet: www.porsche-design.com

Porsche Lizenz- und Handelsgesellschaft mbH & Co. KG
Sitz der Gesellschaft/Domicile: Ludwigsburg, Germany
Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht/District Court Stuttgart
Handelsregisternummer/Commercial Register No.: HRA-Nr. 301131
Persönlich haftender Gesellschafter/Personally liable partner: Porsche Verwaltungsgesellschaft mbH
Sitz der Gesellschaft/Domicile: Ludwigsburg, Germany
Registergericht/Court of Registry: Amtsgericht/District Court Stuttgart
Handelsregisternummer/Commercial Register No.: HRB-Nr. 302214
Geschäftsführer/Managing Director: Dr. Jan Becker [Sprecher der Geschäftsführung], Holger Germann, Roland Heiler

Der Inhalt dieser E-Mail ist nicht rechtsverbindlich. Erklärungen, die die Porsche Lizenz- und Handelsgesellschaft mbH & Co. KG verpflichten, bedürfen
jeweils der Unterschrift durch 2 zeichnungsberechtigte Personen. Sollten Sie nicht der Adressat dieser E-Mail sein, bitten wir Sie, uns unverzüglich zu informieren und diese Nachricht zu löschen.
Die Datenschutzerklärung für die Kontaktaufnahme mit der Porsche Lizenz- und Handelsgesellschaft mbH & Co. KG via Porsche Contact Center finden Sie unter: https://www.porsche.com/international/plh-privacy/

The content of this e-mail is not legally binding. Porsche Lizenz und Handelsgesellschaft mbH & Co. KG is only bound by statements, if they are
signed by two authorised persons. If you are not the addressee, please inform us immediately that you have received this e-mail by mistake, and delete it.
For information regarding the privacy policy concerning the handling of your respective inquiry with Porsche Lizenz- und Handelsgesellschaft mbH & Co. KG via Porsche Contact Center please refer to: https://www.porsche.com/international/plh-privacy/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...now, just which model is it?

Regards,


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## dinexus

That’s super cool – wonder if they have a re-issue in the works? Nothing in their current catalog really has “fighter pilot” written on it, though the Monobloc Actuator is pretty neat. 


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## HappyJack

Perhaps a re-issue with the centre minute movement that's also fitted in the Sinn 140A, EZM10, and various Tutima models...?


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## G1Ninja

Burgs said:


> I don't know if everybody knows, or not, but the P-51 Mustang shown in some of the previews is Tom Cruise's personally owned aircraft. He has been a Mustang pilot for quite a number of years.


I remember first seeing the mustang in a Mission Impossible 3 special. I try not to watch those marketing shows but Tom Cruise was at his home as well and I was curious about his setup. If he showed any wild cars, motorcycles, or a crazy home theater. It was cool how he collected signed scripts from all his movies. So I watched bits and pieces of the show attempting not to spoil Mission Impossible 3, even though that movie wasn't that good in the end.


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## dinexus

HappyJack said:


> Perhaps a re-issue with the centre minute movement that's also fitted in the Sinn 140A, EZM10, and various Tutima models...?


This, or PD's excellent GMT movement module shoe-horned into the classic chronograph case.


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## mojorison_75

cuthbert said:


> More pics!
> 
> View attachment 14739329


Two machines dominated my childhood mind: The Lamborghini Countach and the F-14 Tomcat. Had I been into them back then I imagine that watch would have lived in my dreams as well. :-!


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## G1Ninja

mojorison_75 said:


> Two machines dominated my childhood mind: The Lamborghini Countach and the F-14 Tomcat. Had I been into them back then I imagine that watch would have lived in my dreams as well. :-!


I can't remember if I saw a Countach or Diablo first. I remember liking that car also because it was a Transformer. But when I saw one on the road it seemed like it didn't belong there. Like it was for the track and not road. Maybe because it was a small road and it seemed like the car almost took up the whole lane.


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## James A

*NY times article from a few days ago.... Its a bit of a puff piece but its a warning that there will be a little watch hype when this movie is released...*

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/19/fashion/watches-top-gun-tockr-bremont.html

The 'Top Gun' Sequel, in Wristwatch Terms
Interest in aviation models has been increasing as Maverick's return to the movies nears.









Anthony Edwards, left, with Tom Cruise, in the 1986 film "Top Gun." Mr. Cruise's character wore a Porsche Design 7176s watch.
By Melanie Abrams
Feb. 19, 2020

Pilot watches are on the radar this year, thanks to the "Top Gun" movie sequel, "Top Gun: Maverick," scheduled to debut this summer.

Tom Cruise will be back in his role from the 1986 movie as Capt. Pete Mitchell, nicknamed Maverick, training other Top Gun naval aviators for a specialized mission. But there has been no word on the return of his watch - a black PVD-coated stainless steel Porsche Design 7176s, produced by Orfina, with chronographs at 12, six and nine o'clock.

Still, watch companies are seizing the moment.

"Many more people will be searching 'pilot watches,' 'Top Gun watch,' 'Maverick watch' and things of that sort in Google," Austin Ivey, founder and chief executive of the aviation watch brand Tockr, said in a recent interview. (And Tockr has noticed such a bump recently in online searches leading to its D-Day themed watch, he wrote in a later email.)








So the company is funding the production and design of a new "Top Gun"-inspired watch - with a similar black dial, bright orange chronograph counters and distressed case and bracelet - to be introduced in June.

The project is a collaboration with Topper, a watch and jewelry store in Burlingame, Calif., south of San Francisco. Mr. Ivey said he hoped to capitalize on the 80-year-old store's social media reach and large customer database for what he called "new eyeballs."

Bremont, a British aviation brand, has targeted the movie's release, too, but is only planning to introduce a new range of some existing models.

Nick English, who founded the brand in 2002 with his brother, Giles, said, "We've got so many other things coming out at the same time. We've got this new movement we're looking at that we're showing for the first time. We've got this new facility. We've got our own products and we just don't feel we need to piggyback on a movie in the same way as some other brands that have paid to be in there."

And prices are rising for pre-owned watches in the "Top Gun" universe. Consider the Breitling D30022 Navitimer Top Gun limited-edition chronograph for sale on the online marketplace 1stdibs for slightly more than 7,250 euros, or $7,924, nearly twice the $4,250 price of a similar watch sold nine months ago on the online forum watchnet.com.

Regards,


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## Racontour

dinexus said:


> I thought I remembered hearing rumblings awhile back that it would be an IWC (especially given their involvement in the Miramar flight school with this year's Top Gun releases) but the new Maverick trailer dropped today, and that bracelet and case profile look nothing like anything IWC's made to date. Let the speculation begin.
> 
> View attachment 14706973


It's a Porsche design Orfina chronograph..









Spotted - TOP GUN: Maverick, Return of Porsche Design Orfina PVD


In the 1986 hit action film Top Gun, Tom Cruise starred as Naval Aviator Lieutenant Pete “Maverick” Mitchell, who was selected to attend the TOP GUN programme, at the United States Navy Fighter Weapons School. No need to talk about the cult status of the movie, about how cool the music was, how...




monochrome-watches.com


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## CitizenPromaster

Bob1035 said:


> cuthbert
> 
> Off topic, but what car is that in your picture? I consider myself a gearhead but don't recognize the emblem!


Toyota 86, aka GT86, Scion FR-S, Subaru BRZ.

On topic, I think Porsche Design gave him a refurbished original or simply a NOS re-issue P'6510 (steel) or P'6540 (titanium)...


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## LordBrettSinclair

This thread rocks!


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## sweets

As has been correctly pointed out, the original was a pd Orfina chrono, well used. Mr Cruise is not large so the watch looks large on his wrist (and the pd is not a huge watch).
The new trailer does not feature the watch other than the strap, which is celarly still the original NSA pd bracelet. I suspect he is wearing a refurbed original.

I can point out a few inaccuracies on this thread that need clearing up.
The PVD (the black PVD at least) on the original watches was not paint at all, it was a nitride coating that impregnated into he surface of the metal. The grey and green versions were not the same specification.
The pd chrono was released in 1972 with the Valjox 7750 on board. They changed over to the Lemania 5100 in 1978 as part of the selection process to be a Bund issued chronograph for the Luftwaffe. Later 5100-powered chronos were also made by Arctos, Tengler, and Tutima. None of the Bund ones were PVD black exclusively, although some have been observed.

Dave


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## Karellen

In the original Top Gun, Maverick can be seen wearing a Rolex Submariner at about 00:10:55 into the film. It's the part where he's ignoring the order to land, going back to help Merlin. His hand is in the cockpit, operating the throttle (notable error: he's pulling power back to idle when he should be firewalling it for a go-around). Anyway, the watch is clearly a Submariner (or a close homage.)


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## Pete26

Burgs said:


> That's the all new electric Euro Yugo. It features turn signals, AM radio and same-day acceleration 0 to 60mph.


Wow 0 to 60mph in one day  I feel the need, the need for sped.


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## Pete26

Karellen said:


> In the original Top Gun, Maverick can be seen wearing a Rolex Submariner at about 00:10:55 into the film. It's the part where he's ignoring the order to land, going back to help Merlin. His hand is in the cockpit, operating the throttle (notable error: he's pulling power back to idle when he should be firewalling it for a go-around). Anyway, the watch is clearly a Submariner (or a close homage.)


The sub belonged to the stunt pilot who was a top gun and technical advisor on the film


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## James A

Regarding production dates as discussed a few times in this thread, below is an email from Valjoux with dates for presentation and delivery.

Valjoux 7750 movement.

Hello Mr. XXX,

Following your request, here are the few elements of answers we found.
The 7750 movement was presented in 1973 at the European Watch and Jewellery Fair in Basel.
He was delivered to watchmakers in 1974. We have not found the exact month.

Kinds Regards,
Helene Pasquier
Product & Communication

ETA SA, Manufacture Horlogère Suisse
Bahnhofstrasse 9 | 2540 Grenchen | Switzerland
Phone: +41 32 655 2786 | Fax: -

[email protected] | www.eta.ch

I also managed to find the original Swiss and US patent filing for 1973 and 74 respectively.



And I also have this video from Porsche Design themselves claiming the watch was *Designed* in 1972. It's possible that it has lead people to wrongly conclude that watch was made in 72.






The watch could not have been made in 72 or 73. A big thanks to Helene at ETA for sharing this info and confirming delivery to watchmakers in 1974. So our best guess production dates are late 1974 or early 1975.

Regards,


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## Diver Dan

I remember him checking his watch quite obviously at the beach volleyball game in the original Top Gun. Lots of iconic product placement in this film: the Ninja moto, her 356, Levi’s, Ray Bans.


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## agtprvctr

Any updates on this? Also did anyone else notice the watch on Phoenix's hand in the new trailer?


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## mav

agtprvctr said:


> Any updates on this? Also did anyone else notice the watch on Phoenix's hand in the new trailer?
> 
> View attachment 16544051


Looks to me like the IWC Top Gun SFTI Mark 18.


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## MikeBanzai

When I went to Air Force pilot training, we were issued G-Shocks.

Just sayin’, if we’re looking for “authentic” pilot watches.


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## James A

Just updating the thread with this latest from Monochrome.









Spotted - Tom Cruise's Porsche Design Chronograph in Top Gun Maverick


Now fully confirmed, Tom Cruise will wear the same Porsche Design Chronograph in 2022 Top Gun: Maverick than in 1986 Top Gun.




monochrome-watches.com





Regards,


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## watch-id

MikeBanzai said:


> When I went to Air Force pilot training, we were issued G-Shocks.
> 
> Just sayin’, if we’re looking for “authentic” pilot watches.


Apparently, the actual United States Navy Strike Fighter Tactics Instructor program 'Top Gun' school gets IWC watches according to this article and video: IWC TOP GUN: 2022 Pilot’s Watches | IWC Schaffhausen


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## agtprvctr

watch-id said:


> Apparently, the actual United States Navy Strike Fighter Tactics Instructor program 'Top Gun' school gets IWC watches according to this article and video: IWC TOP GUN: 2022 Pilot’s Watches | IWC Schaffhausen


Yes, they've been doing this for the past 15 years, and I believe Breitling made the exclusive watch before IWC. The "Top Gun" watches that IWC sells look relatively similar to the models that are only available to the Navy TOPGUN grads and staff - they are offered a simple 3 hand model and I think 2 chronos, very similar to the civilian "SFTI" offerings. However, the civilian versions use the movie's logo (TOP GUN with a space in between) whereas the military version uses the actual SFTI / TOPGUN school's logo, which has different graphics and doesn't actually say TOPGUN but rather Fighter Weapons School; you'll also notice IWC puts "SFTI" in quotes when they refer to the civilian versions.

In any case, Tom Cruise doesn't even wear an IWC in the original or the sequel. But based on the trailers, Phoenix is spotted wearing what's likely the civilian version of the new IWC "SFTI" 3-hand watch. It sounds like Tom Cruise will most likely wear an updated or restored version of the Porsche Design Orfina that he wore in the original, while IWC probably struck a deal to at least have some of the supporting cast wear IWCs.


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## K42

I saw the movie the other night. There's a scene where someone is using an IWC stopwatch (not a wristwatch); clearly a product placement ad. Lots of characters wearing watches.


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## Deacon211

This is always a, “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin” question.

We, as WISes, appreciate the design and craftsmanship of fine watches, especially those that have a history where a good watch was a critical piece of equipment. Hence the love for diving, pilot, and mil pieces.

So, while it’s inevitably true that in the post quartz generation few militaries (if any) are going to issue watches, fewer still expensive mechanical ones, that largely, and often, misses the point. Many WISes still love the design affectations and nods to a different time.

That’s why there aren’t only two threads on this forum; one labeled “Garmin” and one labeled, “G-shock”.

On the other hand, as a consequence of the above point, any company with an advertising department is going to try to get you to believe that some “elite” (which has become literally like the word “literally” in its inaccuracy) unit or another are being issued it’s watches due to their superior qualities. 

An assertion that is almost never true.

Example: The Top Gun IWC watch. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the Navy Fighter Weapons School does not “buy” this watch for either it’s instructors or graduates. Rather, like the Omega, Breitling, or Bremont military buys, a group may purchase a special project watch from IWC. 

It’s a nice to have item and the discounts are generally appreciated (the Omega X-33 buy I got in on was very generous), but the watch company in question is absolutely making a killing in brand recognition.

So, maybe not entirely altruism.

What’s kind of amusing in this case (and it may have changed so I apologize if incorrect) is that this is insignia of Top Gun:










Not this:










The second was, and AFAIK is the patch of the original movie.

So, the Top Gun IWC is A Top Gun watch, just not perhaps THE Top Gun watch. 


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## Deacon211

Sorry, missed it by one! 


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## agtprvctr

K42 said:


> I saw the movie the other night. There's a scene where someone is using an IWC stopwatch (not a wristwatch); clearly a product placement ad. Lots of characters wearing watches.


Were you able to tell what watches the characters were wearing? I wonder if the stopwatch was the one that comes with the IW324712 special edition set. Can't wait to check out the movie this weekend!


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## drmdwebb

I was on the NFWS (TOPGUN) staff for three years. At that time, in the 90s, the staff ordered a special Breitling emergency with the REAL logo on it for the staff members (not students). I declined to participate in that buy because I thought it was too expensive for my young family. Dumb decision. Some of my colleagues who had the same position at TOPGUN that I did participated in the watch buy when they had the chance. It wasn't always Breitling. The special watch buy is not unique to TOPGUN; other organizations do from time to time as well, as pointed out above. Sometimes these special watches come up for sell in various places, though this is HIGHLY frowned upon by the staff.

Fast forward to the 50th anniversary of TOPGUN in 2019. IWC was commissioned to make a special watch for current and former instructors. You can see the specification here:

TOPGUN instructors watch

Although I was not an instructor (I was the staff geek/analyst/scientist--the real-life Charlie in the original movie), I was able to purchase the watch. It is customized to me with the "callsign" the staff gave me on the back (DocMike--not as creative perhaps as it could have been. Over the space of nine years, we had DocMike, DocMatt, then another DocMike). It says "TOPGUN instructor" on the front, but I am always very careful to distinguish my role on the staff. I was not an instructor, but I was the missile/aircraft/radar support analyst. I got to fly a few times in a Hornet, and got to participate in many very important and fun tactics development projects "running the numbers".

Here's mine:










I will never sell this watch. I hope my great-grandkids trade it amongst themselves every year. It is a reminder of the most professionally stimulating time I ever had in my career. 

One of my former colleagues who also spent time on the TOPGUN staff and I are sponsoring a private viewing of the movie for our current work colleagues and family members on June 2. If any of you are in Northern Utah and want to come, DM me and I'll give you the particulars. We still have space! I will be wearing the watch to the movie!


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## Deacon211

drmdwebb said:


> I was on the NFWS (TOPGUN) staff for three years. At that time, in the 90s, the staff ordered a special Breitling emergency with the REAL logo on it for the staff members (not students). I declined to participate in that buy because I thought it was too expensive for my young family. Dumb decision. Some of my colleagues who had the same position at TOPGUN that I did participated in the watch buy when they had the chance. It wasn't always Breitling. The special watch buy is not unique to TOPGUN; other organizations do from time to time as well, as pointed out above. Sometimes these special watches come up for sell in various places, though this is HIGHLY frowned upon by the staff.
> 
> Fast forward to the 50th anniversary of TOPGUN in 2019. IWC was commissioned to make a special watch for current and former instructors. You can see the specification here:
> 
> TOPGUN instructors watch
> 
> Although I was not an instructor (I was the staff geek/analyst/scientist--the real-life Charlie in the original movie), I was able to purchase the watch. It is customized to me with the "callsign" the staff gave me on the back (DocMike--not as creative perhaps as it could have been. Over the space of nine years, we had DocMike, DocMatt, then another DocMike). It says "TOPGUN instructor" on the front, but I am always very careful to distinguish my role on the staff. I was not an instructor, but I was the missile/aircraft/radar support analyst. I got to fly a few times in a Hornet, and got to participate in many very important and fun tactics development projects "running the numbers".
> 
> Here's mine:
> 
> View attachment 16656819
> 
> 
> I will never sell this watch. I hope my great-grandkids trade it amongst themselves every year. It is a reminder of the most professionally stimulating time I ever had in my career.
> 
> One of my former colleagues who also spent time on the TOPGUN staff and I are sponsoring a private viewing of the movie for our current work colleagues and family members on June 2. If any of you are in Northern Utah and want to come, DM me and I'll give you the particulars. We still have space! I will be wearing the watch to the movie!


Nice watch Doc, and well earned.

Wear it in good health!

Deacon


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## K42

agtprvctr said:


> Were you able to tell what watches the characters were wearing? I wonder if the stopwatch was the one that comes with the IW324712 special edition set. Can't wait to check out the movie this weekend!


The only one that was clear and that I could remember was the IWC that Phoenix was wearing, and maybe one other character.


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## MikeBanzai

drmdwebb said:


> I was on the NFWS (TOPGUN) staff for three years. At that time, in the 90s, the staff ordered a special Breitling emergency with the REAL logo on it for the staff members (not students). I declined to participate in that buy because I thought it was too expensive for my young family. Dumb decision. Some of my colleagues who had the same position at TOPGUN that I did participated in the watch buy when they had the chance. It wasn't always Breitling. The special watch buy is not unique to TOPGUN; other organizations do from time to time as well, as pointed out above. Sometimes these special watches come up for sell in various places, though this is HIGHLY frowned upon by the staff.
> 
> Fast forward to the 50th anniversary of TOPGUN in 2019. IWC was commissioned to make a special watch for current and former instructors. You can see the specification here:
> 
> TOPGUN instructors watch
> 
> Although I was not an instructor (I was the staff geek/analyst/scientist--the real-life Charlie in the original movie), I was able to purchase the watch. It is customized to me with the "callsign" the staff gave me on the back (DocMike--not as creative perhaps as it could have been. Over the space of nine years, we had DocMike, DocMatt, then another DocMike). It says "TOPGUN instructor" on the front, but I am always very careful to distinguish my role on the staff. I was not an instructor, but I was the missile/aircraft/radar support analyst. I got to fly a few times in a Hornet, and got to participate in many very important and fun tactics development projects "running the numbers".
> 
> Here's mine:
> 
> View attachment 16656819
> 
> 
> I will never sell this watch. I hope my great-grandkids trade it amongst themselves every year. It is a reminder of the most professionally stimulating time I ever had in my career.
> 
> One of my former colleagues who also spent time on the TOPGUN staff and I are sponsoring a private viewing of the movie for our current work colleagues and family members on June 2. If any of you are in Northern Utah and want to come, DM me and I'll give you the particulars. We still have space! I will be wearing the watch to the movie!


Very nice. I passed on a group buy on an F-16 Breitling when I was younger. Dumb. 

I just had no idea. At the time, I thought; "why would I ever spend that kind of money on a watch? My Citizen is great!"

I regret it now.


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## CitizenPromaster

I research surface treatments as a hobby (The definitive Citizen Titanium Thread / Super Titanium / Ti + IP / Duratect / MRK / DLC | WatchUSeek Watch Forums), so I have a particular interest in the surface treatment on the early Porsche Design watches. I think everyone can agree that it is not PVD, but there is some disagreement on what it is.



sweets said:


> I can point out a few inaccuracies on this thread that need clearing up.
> The PVD (the black PVD at least) on the original watches was not paint at all, it was a nitride coating that impregnated into he surface of the metal. The grey and green versions were not the same specification.


The website that Cuthbert linked to...


cuthbert said:


> Oh, this is an interesting page on military issues Porsche Design Orfina, definitely the last real pilot chonograph of the West, therefore appropriate for Maverick:
> 
> Research project: Orfina/Porsche-Design "MILITARY" chronograph dial variations


...mentions the following:

*CASES:*_ all variants have been found in both natural stainless-steel and a dark coated finish. the dark finish is commonly referred to as "PVD" (as i have in this article), but in fact the coating is not PVD. there appear to have been 2 different processes used for this finish: an electro-chemical process called "passivation" that creates a durable protective oxide layer on the underlying metal, and a less durable and thicker painted or powder-coated finish._

From my own research, I came across the following, which I've posted in the thread I linked to.


CitizenPromaster said:


> On a side note, some people insist the early 70s black Porsche Design watches are black oxide, not PVD, which would have to be hot bluing since it is stainless steel ("immersed in a mixture of nitrates and chromates" is how hot bluing works for stainless steel according to wikipedia).


Bluing is a passivation process, so my information and the information from the research project are in agreeance. Also, there are nitrates involved, so it doesn't contradict what sweets was saying, or trying to say, because nitride, nitrite and nitrate are not the same thing.

As a bonus, here is a very funny (though completely scripted) promotion for Top Gun Maverick that they made for the delayed theater release, where Tom flies his personal P-51 Mustang and a jet trainer. Yes, he does fly it himself, despite what some challenged people say in the comments.





As a second bonus, I discovered that a German brand made a homage of the PD in period using the Valjoux 7750. They are obviously less expensive to buy as a vintage watch than the original PD, they cost around €500. I won't give away all the details though, do your own homework ;-)









And one can argue that the Heuer Pasadena was also a homage.


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## cuthbert

CitizenPromaster said:


> I research surface treatments as a hobby (The definitive Citizen Titanium Thread / Super Titanium / Ti + IP / Duratect / MRK / DLC | WatchUSeek Watch Forums), so I have a particular interest in the surface treatment on the early Porsche Design watches. I think everyone can agree that it is not PVD, but there is some disagreement on what it is.
> 
> 
> The website that Cuthbert linked to...
> 
> ...mentions the following:
> 
> *CASES:*_ all variants have been found in both natural stainless-steel and a dark coated finish. the dark finish is commonly referred to as "PVD" (as i have in this article), but in fact the coating is not PVD. there appear to have been 2 different processes used for this finish: an electro-chemical process called "passivation" that creates a durable protective oxide layer on the underlying metal, and a less durable and thicker painted or powder-coated finish._
> 
> From my own research, I came across the following, which I've posted in the thread I linked to.
> 
> Bluing is a passivation process, so my information and the information from the research project are in agreeance. Also, there are nitrates involved, so it doesn't contradict what sweets was saying, or trying to say, because nitride, nitrite and nitrate are not the same thing.
> 
> As a bonus, here is a very funny (though completely scripted) promotion for Top Gun Maverick that they made for the delayed theater release, where Tom flies his personal P-51 Mustang and a jet trainer. Yes, he does fly it himself, despite what some challenged people say in the comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a second bonus, I discovered that a German brand made a homage of the PD in period using the Valjoux 7750. They are obviously less expensive to buy as a vintage watch than the original PD, they cost around €500. I won't give away all the details though, do your own homework ;-)
> View attachment 16788701
> 
> 
> And one can argue that the Heuer Pasadena was also a homage.
> View attachment 16788724


When I got my 5100 restored Orfina clearly stated the "PVD" coating was jusr a painting, that's the reason why after few years some of those watches showed the bare metal.

Also, the Pasadena was not an homage but a similar watch based on a different case. Otger companies like Longines offered similar lokking chronographs at that time.


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## CitizenPromaster

cuthbert said:


> When I got my 5100 restored Orfina clearly stated the "PVD" coating was jusr a painting, that's the reason why after few years some of those watches showed the bare metal.
> 
> Also, the Pasadena was not an homage but a similar watch based on a different case. Otger companies like Longines offered similar lokking chronographs at that time.


I believe you, but I based my statement on someone else saying he had his PD restored by Orfina and they clearly stated his watch originally had black oxide. However your statement is not contradicting that statement, considering the quote I posted earlier.

*CASES:*_ all variants have been found in both natural stainless-steel and a dark coated finish. the dark finish is commonly referred to as "PVD" (as i have in this article), but in fact the coating is not PVD. there appear to have been *2 different processes used for this finish: an electro-chemical process called "passivation" that creates a durable protective oxide layer on the underlying metal, and a less durable and thicker painted or powder-coated finish.*_

So *your *Orfina might have been the "painted" version, and *his *Orfina might have been the "black oxide" version. I don't have a horse in this race, I'm just presenting the available information.

As for the Pasadena, I'm not going to debate the word "homage" vs "inspired by" vs "similar watch", that has been done enough on WUS and other forums. If you don't consider it a homage, that is perfectly fine with me!


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## TwiceRetired

I also noticed the IWC stopwatch but could not confirm any of teh others. BTW I thought Maverick was a far better movie than the original.


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## sweets

cuthbert said:


> When I got my 5100 restored Orfina clearly stated the "PVD" coating was jusr a painting, that's the reason why after few years some of those watches showed the bare metal.
> 
> Also, the Pasadena was not an homage but a similar watch based on a different case. Otger companies like Longines offered similar lokking chronographs at that time.


Not true for all colours. I have had watches restored by Schifferle and Schifferle, and they quite rightly describe it as PVD. But what people fail to understand is that PVD is a process, Physical Vapour Deposition. You can apply many different coatings using the PVD process. Orfina (and their restoration experts Schifferle and Schifferle) use a soaking-in nitride for the black, that slowly abrades off, leading to quite pleasing wear with slightly greyer steel showing at the raised edges. But this coating will not flake off, as it is part of the surface of the metal.
Heuer used the same on their cases, but they applied a more paint-like process on their bracleets, which flake off their colouring completely. Heuer also produced green watches, all of which applied a "paint" using PVD, as there is nothing green that can soak in. I had one, a green PVD Autavia. It flaked off its coating in a totally different manner than the Orfina watches.


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## CitizenPromaster

Rather than debate what PVD is or isn't, I will just leave some links to Wikipedia for those interested in technology:
Coating - Wikipedia
Physical vapor deposition - Wikipedia
Passivation (chemistry) - Wikipedia


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## CitizenPromaster

If you want to be able to see which watch Tom is wearing in Maverick, you have to sit in your theater seat upside down. It makes all the difference, try it.


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## Burgs

OK, I tried that. The usher asked me to leave the theater.


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## CitizenPromaster

Burgs said:


> OK, I tried that. The usher asked me to leave the theater.


Did you wear wide shorts? Maybe it was indecent exposure?


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## Burgs

CitizenPromaster said:


> Did you wear wide shorts? Maybe it was indecent exposure?


The official complaint stated unsightly exposure.


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## CitizenPromaster

James A said:


> Mystery solved and another begins it seems. I decided to contact PD to see if they had any involvement in the new Top Gun movie. Turns out they did.





CitizenPromaster said:


> On topic, I think Porsche Design gave him a refurbished original or simply a NOS re-issue P'6510 (steel) or P'6540 (titanium)...


Ok, so I took one for the team and rented Top Gun: Maverick in HD. Here is the best view of the watch in the movie, and I inverted it for you, of course.










You can clearly see something that resembles the PD logo as on the original. The P'6540 reissue doesn't have that.









However, it could have been a prototype for the new non-limited but limited quantity (1,000/year) version, called the Chronograph 1 - All Black, that you can currently pre-order.










So is it a prototype for above watch? Or a P'6540 with a custom dial? Or did they restore an original after all?










Well, after staring at them for a while, I see three main things that distinguish the old and the new Chronographs.
1) the old has no white hour marker next to the date window
2) the old has four numbers in the top sub-dial since it's a 24-hour dial
3) the old has an extra (white) hand.

We can see the watch on Tom's hand has the white hour marker next to the date window, it has only three numbers in the top subdial, and no extra white hand. So it is certainly a new Porsche Design watch, and like I said, I would think it is either a prototype of the new Chronograph 1 - All Black, or a custom version of the P'6540.

Here's a final look at the watch.










And this is the final piece of the puzzle, in my humble opinion.










The P'6540 has a straight clasp like the original above.










The new Chronograph 1 - All Black has push buttons, and I think I can see push buttons on the clasp in the movie.











So there you have it. I think Porsche Design waited for the delayed release of the movie to release the new Chronograph 1 - All Black that was actually worn in the movie. Or was it?

There was in fact a limited edition of the new Chronograph 1, the Chronograph 1 - 1972 Limited Edition, for the 50th anniversary of the original, with the old PD logo!









So is that the one Tom received from Porsche Design to wear in the movie? Do they differ enough to notice? Well, look closely at the tachymeter scale, they are not the same. And which one matches the one on Tom's watch in the movie? I don't see the 65 in the screenshot, but I do see the 70, so my money is on the non-limited edition Chronograph 1 - All Black.


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## drmdwebb

CitizenPromaster said:


> Ok, so I took one for the team and rented Top Gun: Maverick in HD. Here is the best view of the watch in the movie, and I inverted it for you, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> You can clearly see something that resembles the PD logo as on the original. The P'6510 reissue doesn't have that.
> 
> 
> However, it could have been a prototype for the new non-limited but limited quantity (1,000/year) version that you can currently pre-order.
> 
> 
> 
> So is it a prototype for above watch? Or a P'6510 with a custom dial? Or did they refurbish an original after all?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, after staring at them for a while, I see three main things that distinguish the old and the new Chronographs.
> 1) the old has no white hour marker next to the date window
> 2) the old has four numbers in the top sub-dial since it's a 24-hour dial
> 3) the old has an extra (white) hand.
> 
> We can see the watch on Tom's hand has the white hour marker next to the date window, it has only three numbers in the top subdial, and no extra white hand. So it is certainly a new Porsche Design watch, and like I said, I would think it is either a prototype of the new Chronograph 1, or a custom version of the P'6510.
> 
> Here's a final look at the watch.
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the final piece of the puzzle, in my humble opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> The P'6510 has a straight clasp like the original above.
> 
> 
> 
> The new Chronograph 1 has push buttons, and I think I can see push buttons on the clasp in the movie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So there you have it. I think Porsche Design waited for the delayed release of the movie to release the new Chronograph 1 that was actually worn in the movie. Or was it?
> 
> There is in fact a limited edition of the new Chronograph 1, for the 50th anniversary of the original, with the old PD logo!
> 
> 
> So is that the one Tom received from Porsche Design to wear in the movie? Do they differ enough to notice? Well, look closely at the tachymeter scale, they are not the same. And which one matches the one on Tom's watch in the movie? I don't see the 65 in the screenshot, but I do see the 70, so my money is on the non-limited edition new Chronograph 1.


Great detective work!!!


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## CitizenPromaster

drmdwebb said:


> Great detective work!!!


Thanks! It could still be a one-off prototype of the new Chronograph 1, perhaps even with the old PD logo, and without the "chronometer certified" text like on the All Black, though those lines are dark grey and would be hard to see in the screenshot anyway.

But I think we can all agree that the watch in the screenshot most closely resembles the Chronograph 1 - All Black, and that it is certainly not a restored original.


----------

