# New 24 hour pilot watch



## Badger400

Hey Guys putting feelers out for a limited run (300 to begin with) 24 hour watch for 2 time zones. SW330 movement. Must be clear to read at night/low light levels, have a draft design enroute.


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## elsoldemayo

Look forward to seeing what you have planned.


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## Badger400

Thanks, in aviation my self and know the pain of time in the dark. Looking to have a prototype by July will post soon as. Look at a screw down bezele rather than click.


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## flyerkim

I'm intrigued.


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## gruntmedik

Interested in seeing this.


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## Badger400

Still in draft phase expect some tweeks still. Yellow dots will be reduced to 5 10 15 ect. Also minute track will be on the outside. Probably stainless steel bezel screw down rather the click. Sw330.

All feed back welcome. 

(Design property of swiss manufacture)


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## Ftumch

Badger400 said:


> Still in draft phase expect some tweeks still.


Looks great. Will this be a crowdfunded project?


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## Badger400

Looking at a crowd fund for sure depending how much interest I can drum up. Heres more tweeking. (Design property of swiss maker)


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## ned-ludd

Badger400 said:


> Yellow dots will be reduced to 5 10 15 ect.


Since the yellow dots appear to mark the hours I'd prefer leaving all 24 in, to ease telling the hour at a glance. 
Everyone's able to tell the minutes without many cues but even the most hardened 24-horophile needs help with the hours. 
The face in the second image looks empty without all the dots anyway.

I'd suggest moving the dots outward slightly so the hour hand doesn't cover them.

If the bezel clicks, ensure it has 48 positions (or 96 or 120) to cover all half-hour time zones.

I wouldn't be at all disappointed if the date window was eliminated and replaced by a lume bar for symmetry.

Having the 20 - 40 minutes upside down is inconsistent with the hours on the dial. Flip the dial minutes or hours to match.

For pure geekiness I'd replace the '60' with '00' on the minutes. (Maybe do the same with the '24' on the bezel to set the watch apart from the pack.)

Overall I like the design: it's clean and tidy. A good, no-nonsense tool watch.

Also, you *will* get queries about a 12-up version.


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## Ftumch

Well if we're making a wishlist...



ned-ludd said:


> If the bezel clicks, ensure it has 48 positions (or 96 or 120) to cover all half-hour time zones.





ned-ludd said:


> I wouldn't be at all disappointed if the date window was eliminated and replaced by a lume bar for symmetry.





ned-ludd said:


> Having the 20 - 40 minutes upside down is inconsistent with the hours on the dial. Flip the dial minutes or hours to match.





ned-ludd said:


> For pure geekiness I'd replace the '60' with '00' on the minutes. (Maybe do the same with the '24' on the bezel to set the watch apart from the pack.)



All that, plus...



Fixed lugs
 
Solid caseback
 
100m+ WR 

Gotta dream.


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## Badger400

All taken on thanks very much. I find the date function very useful, perhaps the 6 o'clock postion? For sure i'll have a look to see if getting rid of her alogether would better.

Thanks very much guys, few things there soild take away.


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## TOPAZ

My wishlist:

- 20 yellow dots marking the hours (easier to tell the hours)
- a minute track on the outside
- 48 bezel clicks
- no date
- flip the dial minutes from 20 - 40
- replace the '60' (dial) and '24' (bezel) with '00' - very geeky
- 40 - 42 mm diameter without crown
- 50m WR minimum + glas caseback or 100m WR
- a cheap strap (I always mount metal bracelets from aftermarket)

cheers, Michael
b-)


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## Badger400

Copied Mike thanks very much.


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## Boeing Aloft

I like the look and functionality of the watch. Perhaps you should consider have the face of the watch similar to the Glycine MLV. That along with a PVD black case. I would be interested in one of those watches.
Cheers,
Boeing Aloft


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## flyerkim

ned-ludd said:


> Also, you *will* get queries about a 12-up version.


I hate to see a good prophecy go unfulfilled.

12-up?


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## Badger400

Will come, looking at a bronze version for 12 up once this is completed.


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## cuthbert

Badger400 said:


> All taken on thanks very much. *I find the date function very useful, perhaps the 6 o'clock postion?* For sure i'll have a look to see if getting rid of her alogether would better.
> 
> Thanks very much guys, few things there soild take away.


I would put it between 7 and 8.

I would also make the hands white with vintage lume instead of polished steel to increase visibility.

What is the diameter of the watch? It looks big.


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## Badger400

Looking at 44mm for the watch, hand will be lumed its just the design draft, the hands will be hand made for the project possiblity of heat treated blue with lume fill but we'll see where that puts the cost.


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## Badger400

And of note vintage lume is 31% brigness of C3. I belive its around the same at C1. I'd like the yellow dots to be slighy less bright than the white index marks but vintage lume just don't cut it for what i want this watch to do in low light.


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## Emg66

Badger400 said:


> Hey Guys putting feelers out for a limited run (300 to begin with) 24 hour watch for 2 time zones. SW330 movement. Must be clear to read at night/low light levels, have a draft design enroute.


Looking forward to seeing


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## Emg66

Yeah


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## cuthbert

Badger400 said:


> Looking at 44mm for the watch, hand will be lumed its just the design draft, the hands will be hand made for the project possiblity of heat treated blue with lume fill but we'll see where that puts the cost.


Sorry, out of this.


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## Ftumch

cuthbert said:


> Sorry, out of this.


Well it's a pilot watch, after all. 44mm is about the largest I could wear sensibly, but it's not ridiculous on most wrists.


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## cuthbert

Ftumch said:


> Well it's a pilot watch, after all. 44mm is about the largest I could wear sensibly, but it's not ridiculous on most wrists.


I have plenty of pilots watches, they were never meant to the 44 mm.

Hanhart: 40 mm and it was a very large watch back in the 40s.










Glycine airman 36mm:










Hamilton GG-W-113, 33.5mm...really.










The Mark 11s were 36mm:










These were real pilot watches, not the abominations they sell today.


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## Badger400

Hey guys, all great comments thanks so much for the input. When i'm flying the less effort to figure out the time the better. 

I currently wear a 44mm flieger, which at 1st look in the box I thought i'd made a mistake. I don't have a big wrist either. However I've found it to be perfect for me. 

I've gone for 44mm on this watch for a few reasons. To give presence, to show off a little, but most of all to fit in and be able to read clearly a 24 hour dial. 

I understand totally, everone likes their tea their way. Hope you guys and find this if not to your taste and interesting process 🙂


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## spolstra

Hi,

Looks very nice, unfortunately too big for my wrists. Hoping for a 42 or 40 version in the future.


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## jlind

cuthbert said:


> I have plenty of pilots watches, they were never meant to the 44 mm.
> 
> Hanhart: 40 mm and it was a very large watch back in the 40s.
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> Hamilton GG-W-113, 33.5mm...really.
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> The Mark 11s were 36mm:
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> These were real pilot watches, not the abominations they sell today.


I share these observations. 44mm is too large unless you're trying to recreate a full size navigator's B-Uhr. Then you'd have to up it to 55mm diameter, 21mm thick, and wear it over the sleeve of a heavily insulated flight jacket with a very long leather strap. It's not about wrist size. It's about not being a dive weight and getting in the way of doing other things in a cockpit. A more appropriate size would be 38-40mm *MAX*. Versus the original 36mm Glycine Airman from the 1950's, The Glycine Airman SST from 1969 (aka "Pumpkin") was a whopping 42mm, but got away with it by being thin with a cushion case that fit close to the wrist. Even then, some thought it much too large with flight suits and flight gloves. The smaller alternative in comparable style during the same era was the Ollech & Wajs (O&W) Early Bird at 37.5mm diameter. Both were popular among USAF pilots and US Army rotor heads during the Vietnam War.

Legibility doesn't need 44mm. It needs a clean dial, good markers and good hands. I wore a 33.5mm Hamilton GG-W-113 for the better part of nearly 20 years, for its intended purpose as a military watch. Never once had any issue with legibility, day or night. Reason? The dial, hands and lume. Was ever so thankful for its small size and being thin as it didn't get hung up on equipment and other gear. There's a reason *REAL* military watches are fairly small. It's so they do *NOT* get hung up on stuff. Been there, done that, for decades, for real. Still have one that I bought with my own money at the Clothing Sales Store.










Those of us who have been there and done that know what the pretenders look like. They're large in diameter, thick, and cannot help but be noticed by anyone passing by because they're designed to be, and cannot fit under the cuff of a properly fitted dress shirt. We laugh to ourselves every time we see one.

Advice:
You've got some of the right ideas. *Cut the size down*.

One last thought:
Give it a domed crystal. Doesn't need to be highly domed, just slightly will do the job. Why? A flat crystal is like a circular mirror and casts a circle reflection for enormous distances when direct sunlight hits it. Flat crystals are like signaling mirrors and no amount of AR coating cures it. They're a light discipline disaster. A slightly domed one may give off a pinpoint specular highlight, but it won't be a circle of light that can attract enormous attention. Yeah, those of us who know the difference between the pretenders and the real deal know this too.


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## ned-ludd

All of the above criticisms about size have merit but I note that nearly all the examples offered are for 12-hour pilot watches. Legibility is crucial on 24-hour watches and size can matter.

Rather than enumerate in photos dozens of different-sized 24-hour watches I'll just mention the smallest pilot watch I have experience with: the Guinand Flying Officer.









The case (minus crown) is 37mm wide and the face 32mm. I find it eminently readable under most conditions.

This doesn't mean I prefer a smaller 24-hour watch; just that small can work if the design is right. The design that's being proposed here almost certainly qualifies but ultimately it's the designer's choice and the current market and fashion that will dictate the eventual size.


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## Badger400

Yes domed shaphire I totally agree. I'll certainly look at this 44mm issue. Ex miltary my self too actually. I sported a traser of course during my time, in two versions. Though I was an Infantry officer and found they were purely a work tool. Now im not in the military and although I don't want to "show off" whatever i'm wearing there's no need to hide it anymore. Whats more we have a shared passion for time pieces, so why not have that presence. I certainly haven't found 44mm gets in the way in the cockpit. Though the usal crown issue with my flieger is my only complaint. 

Very interesting points on the size of classics such as the Airman. I'll certainly chat through this with the design team. 

Appreachiate all the feed back guys please keep it coming. Kind regards.


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## Chascomm

My suggestion for what it is worth:
Rather than lume pips on every second hour, how about every hour (like your earlier render) but with narrow bars for 3, 9, 15 and 21 to make it quicker to read in the dark? Of course that would add confusion to the reading of the minutes, so the solution would be to replace the 5 minute numbers with an outer row of lume pips. I know it makes the dial more busy in the dark, but at least you are saved the momentary confusion caused by a lume pip being swallowed by the minute hand passing over it. I'm purely considering practicalities here, without regard for aesthetics.


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## FBuser9

John, thank you and well said. I flew for years with a still-working Glycine Airman from 1967, which came in at around 39mm.

And if there's still room on the wishlist I would recommend to really set this thing off to do something Glycine never did and make it out of Titanium. That would reduce the heft of a 44mm watch so it wouldn't be noticeable.

Mike


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## Badger400

Sound suggestion there, ill certainly look into the costing of that.


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## cuthbert

FBuser9 said:


> John, thank you and well said. I flew for years with a still-working Glycine Airman from 1967, which came in at around 39mm.
> 
> Mike


Pretty sure yours was 36mm:










You can see the tiny Airman with the 42mm Speedmaster here:










Nobody had a problem reading a 36mm 24h watch back then.


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## gullwinggt

i like the idea and do feel the overall rendering is quite nice. But what is the need for 24 hours on dial. i would still keep a clean flieger look on the dial and let the bezel do the 24 hr tracking of time.


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## ned-ludd

gullwinggt said:


> let the bezel do the 24 hr tracking of time.


The original brief is for a "24 hour watch for 2 time zones". Dial + bezel = 2.


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## jlind

FBuser9 said:


> John, thank you and well said. I flew for years with a still-working Glycine Airman from 1967, which came in at around 39mm.
> 
> And if there's still room on the wishlist I would recommend to really set this thing off to do something Glycine never did and make it out of Titanium. That would reduce the heft of a 44mm watch so it wouldn't be noticeable.
> 
> Mike


Thanks. The original Airman created in the 1950's was smaller than the mid-1960's cushion case SST, but was not much smaller than the cushion case O&W Speed Bird, another very popular true 24-hour from that era, with a 24-hour bezel. If you're from that era you may remember the O&W (Ollech & Wajs) from the PX system. I was a boots in mud ground pounder even though I remember the zoomies and rotor heads, and their watches (they were our overhead friends  ). In my later years I worshiped the A-10 jockeys. For me the Airman and Speed Bird era for dudes in flight suits was the ground pounder 6105 Seiko turtle era that could withstand the jungle paradise without fogging over, a different set of circumstances and functional requirements. I also used a Hamilton MIL-W-6433A (aka GG-W-113). The Seiko 6105 were followed by the 6309 turtles.

Today for the dudes with boots in the silty sand box it's a G-Shock or Suunto. We called it "Moon Dust" as it has the consistency of talcum powder. One of the reasons M9 Berreta pistol magazines jammed. More on topic, from my rubbing shoulders with the aviators from time to time, they didn't want or need big watches, even 24-hour pieces. Operationally I needed ready visibility of Zulu time as everything, including ops orders, was done to Zulu time. Crucial when you've got assets in multiple time zones that must be coordinated without error, as a time synchronization mistake can cost lives, and not just a few of them. I personally insisted all my ops run on Zulu. Period. No exception.

Hopes this gives more insight about real mil operations and the use of time and timepieces.


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## FBuser9

My bad you’re correct it was 36mm. 

Thanks


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## cuthbert

jlind said:


> Operationally I needed ready visibility of Zulu time as everything, including ops orders, was done to Zulu time. Crucial when you've got assets in multiple time zones that must be coordinated without error, as a time synchronization mistake can cost lives, and not just a few of them. I personally insisted all my ops run on Zulu. Period. No exception.
> 
> Hopes this gives more insight about real mil operations and the use of time and timepieces.


Yes that was the point of the Airman: originally in the purist version the watch was meant to be set on Zulu, and then the bezel had to be rotated *current* timezone the pilot was flying in...so for instance a pilot who flew from Frankurt to Moscow had the watch set on GMT time and the bezel on GMT+1, then GMT+2, 3 and so on...much easier to rotate the bezel than to change the time.

Then Rolex came and messed up with GMT watches that show 12h and 24h time at the same time.


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## Badger400

Ok guys latest up date here for you. This has a stainless steel bezel, looks nice but can't put lume in this bezel, so may go back to a black bezel with lume in, feed back welcome. I think reading the 24 hour bezel at night would be rather handy.

Ok ok ok... 44 might be too big, 42 might be where is at. Note second hand will be full length lume. 

Thanks for all the discussion guy much appreachiated ! 

(Design property of swiss manufacturer)


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## Dennis Smith

Nice. Black bezel would be nicer, I think. Triangle at top instead of "00" would allow it to double as a timing device. I would prefer the even-hour small lum dots to be replaced by something larger and of a different shape. The even markers should be emphasized as they also correspond to the main minute markers and help orient on the dial. Yantar, AirNautic, and O&W all did this in different ways


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## Ftumch

Dennis Smith said:


> The even markers should be emphasized as they also correspond to the main minute markers and help orient on the dial. Yantar, AirNautic, and O&W all did this in different ways


And also make a very busy dial. It might be nice to stick with the simplicity of the early mockups.


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## COZ

I like the very first mock-up, just add the minutes chapter ring and seconds hand. 42mm would be ideal.

Don't care for the hour hand and short minute hand on this latest one. Just my opinion of course, do what you like.


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## Badger400

Hour hand will not extend back quite so much, but if your brain isnt working as fast as it might should, i wanted to be able to take a quick glance back down the hour hand to give you the 12 hour equivalent. Good points on inner hour pips i'll look into what alternatives could be but it might make it look rather busy. Good points though. Cheers for now guys.

(Desgin property of swiss manufacturer)


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## Tornadohead

Badger400 said:


> Hour hand will not extend back quite so much, but if your brain isnt working as fast as it might should, i wanted to be able to take a quick glance back down the hour hand to give you the 12 hour equivalent. Good points on inner hour pips i'll look into what alternatives could be but it might make it look rather busy. Good points though. Cheers for now guys.
> 
> (Desgin property of swiss manufacturer)


I know you've mentioned that the Date window is an important feature to you. I like it at the new position, but it looks small to me - not enough contrast to draw it out of the dial and identify it as Date, to me.

However, I am very intrigued about this project, and commend you for the undertaking.


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## Badger400

Thank you very much tornadohead. Yes i agree its hard and a fine balance. Should you hide the date window so people who don't really want it don't notice it as much? Or go full out for people who do want it and alienate the non daters ? 

Much Appreachiate the feed back though !


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## gruntmedik

Are the white 7-17 hr numbers going to stay inverted, or match the bezel numbers?


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## Dennis Smith

I'd say the lum dots need to be moved out right next to the numbers, the hour hand needs to extend that far as well, and the minute hand also needs to be longer, out to the minute track. Looks really, really good!


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## Mouse_at_Large

It's just my personal choice, but I'd prefer the dots/bars were removed and the numbers were lumed in the brightest lume material available (don't care about the "period" look). That would make it a lot cleaner/clearer. Whatever you do, keep the full 24 hour dial and bezel. Oh, and drilled lugs please!!


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## gradient

What'll the lug to lug size be? If it's 52 or smaller I might be in. Looks like it'll be a lot bigger than that though from the mockups.


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## Badger400

Hey fellas thanks very much for all that. I'll have a look at moving the pips out and see how that might work. Certainly the minute hand will extend out. 

Lug to lug i'm still working on with manufacturer can't give you a size, though you remark on 52mm is certainty noted. Have looked at fixed lugs all possible however costing out is the next phase. You have a dream list and some things you have to give and take on. 

Lume wise hoping for 2 types BGw9 for white C3/C5/natural for pips. Bezel to lume as well. I'll see if the minute track can be included without it looking too busy or messy at night. 

Cheers for now.


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## Badger400

Here you go fellas. Probably last post here regarding design. Pips moved out only issue here is 9 o'clock pip will go due to date window. I'll have a think, all suggestions welcome! Option of course not to have a date. Lug to lug 49.8, 42.5 across, case depth of 8.6. 

Will post the pictures of prototype and will keep you updated. Thanks again guys.


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## jpmbozzle

Any chance of 2 hour hands?


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## gradient

Four time zones? No thanks!


jpmbozzle said:


> Any chance of 2 hour hands?


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## gradient

I dig it.

FWIW, I know a lot of folks like to skip the date function for the sake of cleanliness but I consider it pretty essential. Love the dimensions.


Badger400 said:


> Here you go fellas. Probably last post here regarding design. Pips moved out only issue here is 9 o'clock pip will go due to date window. I'll have a think, all suggestions welcome! Option of course not to have a date. Lug to lug 49.8, 42.5 across, case depth of 8.6.
> 
> Will post the pictures of prototype and will keep you updated. Thanks again guys.


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## Ftumch

Badger400 said:


> Here you go fellas. Probably last post here regarding design.


At the expense of being dramatic, the second crown and 0700-1700 flip make it a write-off for me.

Others will love it. Just can't please everyone. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## J.L.C.

Any chance of a white dial version?


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## Badger400

Certainly will look a white dial once this had been pushed out. For the second crown, long as the price stays within limits we have planned for a bi directional moveable screw down bezel. If its too much hasssle, as its a function of the case casting process, we'll zip back to a click bezel 120, or enough clicks for a 24 hour watch at least. Cheers fellas all the best and thanks again for now.


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## gradient

Any chance of an optional 60 minute bezel insert?


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## ned-ludd

gradient said:


> Any chance of an optional 60 minute bezel insert?


I think that would be quite a departure from the primary "24 hour watch for 2 time zones" spec.


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## gradient

ned-ludd said:


> I think that would be quite a departure from the primary "24 hour watch for 2 time zones" spec.


True but perhaps a fairly trivial option cost wise if there is an appetite for it. I like the design regardless but personally have no use for a 2nd time zone. A 60 minute bezel, though, would be highly functional for me.

Piolot watch with a dive bezel? Could call it the seak-to-sky mod.


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## ned-ludd

gradient said:


> I [...] personally have no use for a 2nd time zone. A 60 minute bezel, though, would be highly functional for me.


My needs are the exact opposite.

I agree it would be almost trivial to offer alternative bezels but this early in the piece I think discussion of that only distracts from the primary aim.


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## Badger400

Hey fellas, 1st happy friday. 2nd on the bezel front, it will remain a 24 hour bezel. The are certainly times in the cockpit were a timer bezel would be handy for instance dividing a fuel flow by 60 for per minute and wishing to checks a fuel burn at 15 or 30 mins say. Navigation calculations ect. However most modern aircraft do this much faster than my brain and really these calculations are just time killers. The time zone issues for me certainly are more pressing. Operational flight plans are UTC and of course one may wish to track destinations, current local or home. So really for this 24 hour avaition watch a 24 hour bezel seems correct to me at least. I do see however that a timer could be very useful and I'd certainly be able to supply a timer bezel to anyone that really wished. All the best for now.


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## JeromeMMM

I am not a pilot, but I do fly a lot. Having such a 24h GMT watch would be really helpful for keeping track of my family's routines. I am not sure about the canvas strap though. I'd rather have a leather strap. The canvas straps gets smelly after a while. Especially in tropical climates.


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## JeromeMMM

Any idea for how this watch will cost (retail)?


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## Badger400

Hey guys, the strap is just a defult setting on the software the manufacture uses. The actully strap will depend on a few other things. It seems however most people replace the strap for personal taste (myself included). Interested in your hot climate though. I did work in central America for 3 months with a nato strap. I found it was easy to wash and stayed clean and non smelly. I'm not sure a leather strap would have faired the same.

As to cost there's a few varibles and bare in mind (heated hands, quality lume, shapphire domed glass, lazering of world time zones on rear of the case, water resistance, fixed lugs, possiblity of anti magnetic). it's a decent automatic movement going in, i'll be aiming for around 600-800$ US. Now again there's a bit of give and take and clearly there's wish list and the task for me is to get as much value as possible from my manufacturer. Those details are being worked out as we speak. Cheers fellas.


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## Badger400

For the white dial fans. Pips would be black.. Perhaps something for after the black one has been launched. Cheers


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## JAEGER003

Badger400 said:


> ...
> As to cost there's a few varibles and bare in mind (heated hands, quality lume, shapphire domed glass, lazering of world time zones on rear of the case, water resistance, fixed lugs, possiblity of anti magnetic). it's a decent automatic movement going in, i'll be aiming for around 600-800$ US. Now again there's a bit of give and take and clearly there's wish list and the task for me is to get as much value as possible from my manufacturer. Those details are being worked out as we speak. Cheers fellas.


I'm tying to catch up on his thread. Did you specify the movement?

Also +1 on the noon- top club. Make one of those with stats you listed at that price point? Take my money!

--Jaeger

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## Badger400

Sw330 for movement.. And here's the blacked pips


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## Badger400

Correction for bezel


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## Ftumch

Any chance of a status update? I'm hoarding pennies for a new watch and this Glycine is hard to resist.


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## Badger400

I'll literally was thinking about an update today.. Well the case is being made for 2 prototypes as we speak.. Black dial and white dial. Have gone for a non full lume dial for the white (like the Sinn 104 W). Have some chasing of few last minute design tweeks, however should have the prototypes ready for mid August. I'll certainly have any pre-sales listed here 1st for you guys, any serial numbers you might like are yours. Good news is the price is seems to at the lower end of the estimate, for now ! Will update once the protypes are on the way and again photos once I have them.. Cheers for now guys.


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## steamrunner

Playing catch up on this thread. Loved seeing all the different design iterations based on the feedback. Keep up the good work, it's looking great!


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## Badger400

Thanks steamrunner, getting close here. Manufacturer was on a 2 week break, back now and we are going at it in ernest for the prototypes.


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## TOPAZ

.
I would bet that this project will not succeed:
- no timetable,
- no customers,
- no technical specifications and
- no real statement on the price.

But many pictures.

:-(


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## Badger400

Hi TOPAZ,

Actully the technical drawing is being completed as we speak, if you read the thread you see we ended up with a 42mm case with SW330 movements, hands will be thermally blued, domed sapphire, lume BGW9 and C3/C5. Few other sticking points that is purely from a maunfacturing standpoint. But it is summer in Switzerland and for intial microbrand order for prototypes things take time. Once I have the prototypes then I can market and have a decent time line avilable. Sorry you feel this way about the project.


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## Badger400

Here's the inital dial, validation still pending.


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## andrea__81

Love both the concept and how the watch is turning out. A couple questions:

1) May I ask why the long hour hand counterweight? (Actually I thought about a possible reason while writing the question...)
2) If you are going for a custom date wheel (it looks custom given that it appears to be color coordinated on the black) why not have it printed in such a way that numbers appear straight? I'm attaching a Sinn 556 A pic to let you see what I mean. I think it makes watches with date in that position look ten times more professional.


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## Badger400

Hi Andrea 

Reason for the extended hour hand as you probably worked out, is so you can quickly confirm the 24 hour time. If its 20.00 the opposite end will point to 08.00, just a quick easy way to confrim and aviod error if one is tired.

Very, very, good point with the date, I'll look into to that. From the SW330 catalogue it seems the angle is fixed, but I'll certainly ask the manufacture about that. I certainly hadn't considered that, so thank you very much... much appreachiated !! I let you know how that turns out for sure.


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## Badger400

Andrea, 

Sellita will print a special dial for the mass produced.. Hopefully I get that far!.. They normally print for date at 3 and 6 only. Thanks again for that.


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## Badger400

Hey guys update for you..

Blue heated hands made from scratch are hard to find it seems..however we have one last ace up the sleeve for that..
Prototype to get things moving will be painted as if they were heat treated..

Outter ring for seconds has been a task too for the engineers. As its not flat we can't apply lume and numbers, instead we have triangle markes for minutes every 5 mins, least they will be lume...

Only tip of the second hand will be lume so as not to look like a Christmas tree.

Time zone engraving on the back still a go. 

Cheers for now.


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## TOPAZ

.
What's happening?
No news since 4 weeks ...
The project died quietly?
:-(


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## peagreen

Weighing in 'rather' late, but amidst all the discussions of legibility and quick response, I was wondering why it seems to be so rare that designers/manufacturers put all the numerals on a watch face upright. 
Obviously that wouldn't work on the rotating bezel, but the watch face is always in the same orientation to my face ....


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## Badger400

Hey guys, didn't want to keep bumping it to the top when guys are putting up some quality pictures of their 24 hour watches. Protoypes are on their way to me. Soon as I have them I'll put them up here for a peek. Its process that seems best not rushed, which was a lesson for me. 

In answer to the question regarding numbers on the face, I'm not sure if you prefer them or not? I guess it's personal taste. I find numbers 12 up on the dial the easiest to read, and the one I need to read in the shortest amount of time. The bezel secondary for UTC and not required as quickly. I guess as you wear a watch more feel you get for reading it. I have a Zodiac aerospace GMT I just picked up on the bay on today. Taking me a while to get used to it, but liking it a lot !


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## Badger400

Coming together and wanted to share these with you all.


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## J.L.C.

Looks great!


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## MKN

Very very cool! I am happy to see it moving along 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Ftumch

peagreen said:


> I was wondering why it seems to be so rare that designers/manufacturers put all the numerals on a watch face upright.
> Obviously that wouldn't work on the rotating bezel, but the watch face is always in the same orientation to my face ....


I like the symmetry of numbers all the same way. IMO consistency of markings aids legibility more than the orientation.


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## andrea__81

looking good!


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## The watch knob

I'm going to follow this, looks like an interesting project and possibly a good buy!


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## Chamuko

I like it overall..may be interested in getting one.


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## Thundercatjames

I really hope you will have a brushed steel bezel option. I'd be sold for sure


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## Naidan

Following. Very interested. 

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


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## Badger400

Thanks for all the support guys. Here are a few more pics, the main crown with propeller design, the back case that will be around a display back. It has GMT off set with IATA airport codes and the bezel for black face. Cheers for now.


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## ned-ludd

I particularly appreciate the half-hour time zones being included on the display back. Very thoughtful.

As control of the orientation of the (presumably screw on) display back is uncertain I would have opted for all the timezone text to be base-inward, like on the bezel.


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## Badger400

Hey guys,

Having chatted with the manufacturer about the back case ( yes screw back) it will be aligned to 12 as best possible there will be a bit of slippage here and there of course. But as close as possible as a screw back will give. We could lock this down of course but now your looking at $$$. Thinking this will be out of sight most of the time so more a reference tool and nice to know its there. Feel your pain on the half time zones 🙂


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## Badger400

Few more pictures for you guys


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## ned-ludd

I've just re-read the entire thread and it hasn't helped me figure out what the second crown is for. Bezel lock _a la_ Glycine?


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## Badger400

Correct ! Second crown is for the bezel


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## Badger400

Re visiting blued hands for the black dial, thinking sliver would work better. Wonder if you guys agree, though blued hands on the white dial seem to look good. Cheers for now !


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## JAEGER003

Agreed. Alternatively, bright white? Or white/ red? 

Also agreed re blue hands on white dial. 

-- Jaeger

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## Ftumch

Double post


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## chirs1211

Just found this thread, bit late i know but better than never  so yep i'd be interested in seeing where this goes too 

Chris


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## Apogee84

Been following this thread off and on for a little while. Glad to see that is it still proceeding along. Definitely like the direction the design is heading and am very interested in the final product. As a current owner of an Airman Base 22 and someone who has considered the Ocean7 Early Bird from time to time, this ticks a lot of boxes for me. This design has the feel of both of those watches but also provides something they don't have, which is the ability to tell time in both time zones in low-light conditions. One of my pet peeves with dual time watches is that most have barely enough lume to tell time in one time zone let alone two. If this watch has decent water resistance (100M or greater) and you can keep the cost in your target price range, you can add me to the list of interested customers. Biggest problem may be deciding between the light or dark colored dial.

Agree on not having blued hands on the black dial version. Not enough contrast for the tail on the hour hand to be useful.

Good luck!


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## Badger400

Hi Apogee84 yes Water resistant to 10Atms roughly 100 meters I believe


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## sanik




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## Howard78

Looks nice! The propeller on the crown: inspired by the C-130J?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Badger400

Thanks pal. Q400


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## Howard78

Both J and the Q400 have Dowty propellers. If I buy one of your watches I'm gonna claim it's a J-propeller!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Badger400

Ok pal, your secret is safe with me 😉


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## Cryslay33

looks great. But the yellow needs more visibility


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## Badger400

The yellow on the white face you mean ?


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## Cryslay33

ned-ludd said:


> Since the yellow dots appear to mark the hours I'd prefer leaving all 24 in, to ease telling the hour at a glance.
> Everyone's able to tell the minutes without many cues but even the most hardened 24-horophile needs help with the hours.
> The face in the second image looks empty without all the dots anyway.
> 
> I'd suggest moving the dots outward slightly so the hour hand doesn't cover them.
> 
> If the bezel clicks, ensure it has 48 positions (or 96 or 120) to cover all half-hour time zones.
> 
> I wouldn't be at all disappointed if the date window was eliminated and replaced by a lume bar for symmetry.
> 
> Having the 20 - 40 minutes upside down is inconsistent with the hours on the dial. Flip the dial minutes or hours to match.
> 
> For pure geekiness I'd replace the '60' with '00' on the minutes. (Maybe do the same with the '24' on the bezel to set the watch apart from the pack.)
> 
> Overall I like the design: it's clean and tidy. A good, no-nonsense tool watch.
> 
> Also, you *will* get queries about a 12-up version.


:-!:-!:-!


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## Badger400

Almost there guys waiting on the movement then done.


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## The watch knob

It looks great. I'm curious to see your plan for selling, and following so I can get my hands on a black dial version!


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## Badger400

The Watch Knob, thanks very much pal. I don't want break the forum rules. Soon as I have the prototypes in hand I'll take out an add here so you guys will see. But pretty much the normal route for 1st run micro brand. Also as I said before, once you're in, let me know through here if there's serial number you'd like or I might even have the dizzy hights of an actual website by then.

Cheers


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## Badger400

Quick teaser from the shop floor


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## Dan01

I have to say this is one of the nicer 24 hour watches I have seen in a while. I am very tempted as well - any more info on pricing or still
Sorting that out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Badger400

Night for black dial


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## Ftumch

Looks fantastic. Have to say the inconsistent orientation of the numbers is glaring though.


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## chirs1211

Turned out fantastic  that dual lume is something else  

Chris


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## Badger400

And the white.. Will have them shortly for more detailed pictures. Cheers for now all.


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## Mouse_at_Large

A small point, and probably too late, but I'd prefer the lumed triangles on the rehaut were replaced by unlumed 5, 10, 15, 20 etc.


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## colorblind

Badger400 said:


> The yellow on the white face you mean ?


i like this dial.


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## Badger400

Done, guys thanks so much for all you're input been a blast ! Enjoy.


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## matador203977

Good job, such a beauty


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## Badger400

And final lume


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## Ftumch

So where do we buy?


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## ned-ludd

Yes. Want!


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## Dan01

Nicely done 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TOPAZ

-
just found the watch on KICKSTARTER ... look for "24h" 
-
I have to admit: a great looking watch.

b-)


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## Badger400

Thanks Topaz much appreachited


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## TOPAZ

Badger400 said:


> Thanks Topaz much appreachited


Well - let's do some advertising:

the link to KICKSTARTER

It would be a pity if the project did not succeed.

Best regards, Michael
b-)


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## Badger400

Thanks pal, was just trying to not break the forum rules.. But hey, guilty by association ?
https://www.lhwatches.org


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## ned-ludd

TOPAZ said:


> It would be a pity if the project did not succeed.


It certainly would.

But relying on at least 225 backers? That seems a bit of a stretch to me.


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## Badger400

Hey we can but try, 7.7 billion people in the world hopefully 300 will like and need a watch.


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## The watch knob

One thing that might help is you did not demonstrate the bezel action in your video. If you get time, that may help out your campaign to add that.


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## Badger400

Yeah fair point. My 1st time doing that as you can prob tell. Its was very difficult to maneuver around the camera on a tripod. However fair point, I'll see if I can re do and chuck in. Easy to forget something so simple.


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## andrea__81

Besides a better video, you need a better structured campaign. Look at the info contained in the well funded ones and try to replicate.
Timing was also not ideal, people spend money for gift presents around christmas.


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## myke

wow seems like an expensive kickstarter project at 800 CDN


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## Badger400

Agreed.. Probably going to knock 100USD off that just fixing up some numbers


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## The watch knob

A really neat design, I hope you find a way to get it going in the future. Best of luck!


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## Badger400

490 done


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## 7ease

Badger400 said:


> Few more pictures for you guys


looks great to me


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## TOPAZ

.
Any news ?
I have seen that the project was canceled on KICKSTARTER ...

Is this the end ??


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## Apogee84

No, it was relaunched after the first of the year. Do a search on kickstarter for "L&H" and you will see both the canceled project and a new one.

Here is the link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/179122320/landh-watches-special-aviation-watches-0

Has a new lower price as well. I will probably back but seems like getting fully funded could be a long shot.


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## Badger400

Hey guys yeah price dropped to the absolute best I can do, bear in mind they take 3% as well. Back it if you wana see it. 10% going to vets charties as well. All the best !


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## TOPAZ

Apogee84 said:


> No, it was relaunched after the first of the year. Do a search on kickstarter for "L&H" and you will see both the canceled project and a new one.
> 
> Here is the link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/179122320/landh-watches-special-aviation-watches-0
> 
> Has a new lower price as well. I will probably back but seems like getting fully funded could be a long shot.


Thanks for the info !


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## Apogee84

Two questions:

1) How does the bezel lock work? My Glycine Airman has a serrated plate that pushes against the ridges of the bezel. The Atlantic doesn't look like it has something like that so how does screwing down the crown keep the bezel from turning?

2) Where is everyone? I thought 24 hour watch fans would be jumping all over this one but it has been very quiet since the Kickstarter campaign launched. There must be more than 20 folks (as of last count on the kickstarter page) who are interested.


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## Badger400

Hey pal, its a screw that in turn locks against the bezel. Sorry I have no experience with the airman. If you e mail me on the website: https://www.lhwatches.org I can send you the actual engineer draft might make more sense.

Very crowded and aggressive market. Of course I don't have the $$ for crazy marketing. But some interest at least. Not sure it will be enough, but we'll see. As always cheers guys.


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## Apogee84

Ok. I will send you an email from your website to get more info about the bezel lock.

With the 2nd crown and the tail on the hour hand, I had assumed that the Airman was one of your references when you designed the Atlantic. Plenty of pictures in this thread alone of the Airman. Here is a close-up of the bezel lock, which is a fairly unique feature of the watch.









I understand about this being a tough market to break into. Just assumed there would be more interest from the 24 hour crowd.

Thanks and good luck!!!


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## KAS118

This is a very interesting watch - its a shame that it didn't achieve its Kickstarter funding goal.

Hopefully, if the target can be significantly lowered they'll be able to re-run the campaign again


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## Badger400

Hey guys. Yes was a hard target, excellent insight into an agressive and crowded market place. 12 hour version in the works. Will be pushing on though the website in a month or so when we are all straighten away.


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## TFF

Sounds like and interesting project, looking forward to seeing more info!


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## Gelajoy

Very cool watch, too bad he couldn't get funding.


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## tockandroll

That did look like a nice nod to the Airman. Sorry you didn't get funding.


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