# The Unofficial MING Watch Thread



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I figured it is time for MING to get it's own little corner in this forum, where MING owners and fans can come together and discuss these watches.

I'll go first,

My Ming 17.01 Anthracite from a while ago...

















and my current Ming 18.01 H41,


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

That diver is perfection. Too bad they apparently won't be making any more of them.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> That diver is perfection. Too bad they apparently won't be making any more of them.


Just from my own experience sharing photographs of this watch online, people seem to either really like it, or really dislike it. I'm a sucker for dive watches, and nearly 90% of my collection is always divers  So I had to at least check this one out.

I think they will come out with another diver at some point, it just won't have an ETA movement (which is what I took from that last e-mail about it), which also means it will be more expensive.


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Just from my own experience sharing photographs of this watch online, people seem to either really like it, or really dislike it. I'm a sucker for dive watches, and nearly 90% of my collection is always divers  So I had to at least check this one out.
> 
> I think they will come out with another diver at some point, it just won't have an ETA movement (which is what I took from that last e-mail about it), which also means it will be more expensive.


Right, my statement may have been a bit extreme. It's because they can't get the ETA movements any longer.


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## Gunnar_917 (Feb 24, 2015)

Not really a fan of micro brands and startups but dam Ming makes a pretty watch. They’ve never released a watch I didn’t like (from memory)


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## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

27.01


















"what's life without whimsy"


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

I was contemplating a Ming 27.02 (got as far as hovering my mouse over the button), but decided to back out. I do regret not getting it, but the funds for that went towards my EP, so happy ending I guess. Probably the main reason I did not proceed was the realization that I like the 17 series much better than the 27. Don't know for sure though, I was also hesitant to buy a watch I have never seen in metal.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

I’d love to see what would happen for Ming to open up with a time limited rather than quantity limited release, but I’m sure they already don’t keep up with production as it is. 

I do love the design but I don’t love the idea of paying out several thousands for a watch I won’t receive for half a year or longer. I haven’t yet come to the acceptance phase of paying a premium for a used Ming just to have it now.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> I'd love to see what would happen for Ming to open up with a time limited rather than quantity limited release, but I'm sure they already don't keep up with production as it is.
> 
> I do love the design but I don't love the idea of paying out several thousands for a watch I won't receive for half a year or longer. I haven't yet come to the acceptance phase of paying a premium for a used Ming just to have it now.


Yeah, and I would also love a few showrooms around the world to see it in metal first.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Yeah, and I would also love a few showrooms around the world to see it in metal first.


Probably a pipe dream for any micro, let alone one that sells out in minutes online at odd hours (odd for me on the west coast of the USA at least). I can only think of a handful of micro brands that have some sort of brick and mortar presence.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I was contemplating a Ming 27.02 (got as far as hovering my mouse over the button), but decided to back out. I do regret not getting it, but the funds for that went towards my EP, so happy ending I guess. Probably the main reason I did not proceed was the realization that I like the 17 series much better than the 27. Don't know for sure though, I was also hesitant to buy a watch I have never seen in metal.


I was very close to jumping on the 27.02 as well, but decided to hold off for the Mosaic dials and 17.X releases coming this year. I enjoyed my 17.01, but I wasn't too thrilled about the terrible lume and somewhat 'basic' looking hands. If I was able to acquire a 17.06 for a reasonable price, I would do it for sure. But I think the 17.X release this year should bring with it some interesting designs, since this is the last of it's kind.



yellowfury said:


> I'd love to see what would happen for Ming to open up with a time limited rather than quantity limited release, but I'm sure they already don't keep up with production as it is.
> 
> I do love the design but I don't love the idea of paying out several thousands for a watch I won't receive for half a year or longer. I haven't yet come to the acceptance phase of paying a premium for a used Ming just to have it now.


Time limited would be good, but yeah it seems like they're just about able to meet their demands as is. Yeah, I don't enjoy the paying up-front part of this. I think a brand like MING is well established enough to minimize the payment to delivery time. They don't seem like they really 'need' the startup cash for each release.



yellowfury said:


> Probably a pipe dream for any micro, let alone one that sells out in minutes online at odd hours (odd for me on the west coast of the USA at least). I can only think of a handful of micro brands that have some sort of brick and mortar presence.


Yeah, I think brick and mortar is a hard pill to swallow for large brands, and it seems almost suicidal for a smaller brand to try that business model out. You're going to have tons of folks going to the store and asking to buy watches they can't get their hands on. At the best case, you'll end up with a Rolex-like situation.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I was very close to jumping on the 27.02 as well, but decided to hold off for the Mosaic dials and 17.X releases coming this year. I enjoyed my 17.01, but I wasn't too thrilled about the terrible lume and somewhat 'basic' looking hands. If I was able to acquire a 17.06 for a reasonable price, I would do it for sure. But I think the 17.X release this year should bring with it some interesting designs, since this is the last of it's kind.
> 
> Time limited would be good, but yeah it seems like they're just about able to meet their demands as is. Yeah, I don't enjoy the paying up-front part of this. I think a brand like MING is well established enough to minimize the payment to delivery time. They don't seem like they really 'need' the startup cash for each release.
> 
> Yeah, I think brick and mortar is a hard pill to swallow for large brands, and it seems almost suicidal for a smaller brand to try that business model out. You're going to have tons of folks going to the store and asking to buy watches they can't get their hands on. At the best case, you'll end up with a Rolex-like situation.


Oh, I actually wasn't aware that there will be 17.xx releases this year, that's great! If that happens, the planned GS purchase will have to be delayed.

When I mentioned the physical location, I meant something like a showroom where you can at least see the watch in metal. They don't have to sell watches themselves at these locations. I do understand that it is not reasonable to expect from a small brand, like Ming. Maybe when their production exceeds the demand that can be generated online among the enthusiast community we will see some movement in that direction, especially when their prices move up further. Even at their current price level, I find it hard to convince myself I really want it and not getting influenced by the hype train. Seeing it and trying it on might help.


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## Zhanming057 (Jun 17, 2019)

The whole "limited drop" thing is a turn off for me. Why not just price the damn thing at where they think people will pay for them, and take full amount upfront for pre-orders? 

I don't mind waiting 6 months, but I do mind having to get up at midnight on the chance that I might be able to buy something, and then wait for 6 months. If they can't keep up with production, they can always raise prices to clear supply and demand.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Oh, I actually wasn't aware that there will be 17.xx releases this year, that's great! If that happens, the planned GS purchase will have to be delayed.
> 
> When I mentioned the physical location, I meant something like a showroom where you can at least see the watch in metal. They don't have to sell watches themselves at these locations. I do understand that it is not reasonable to expect from a small brand, like Ming. Maybe when their production exceeds the demand that can be generated online among the enthusiast community we will see some movement in that direction, especially when their prices move up further. Even at their current price level, I find it hard to convince myself I really want it and not getting influenced by the hype train. Seeing it and trying it on might help.


Absolutely! I think before the pandemic, they would go on mini tours and meet with different collector groups across the globe. I know they've done a few of those events on both coasts here in the US, and maybe when things return to normal, we'll see a lot more of those tours/meetups.

Yep, there's a 17 release coming with a few different models, so I'm hoping those are going to be reasonably priced.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Oh, I actually wasn't aware that there will be 17.xx releases this year, that's great! If that happens, the planned GS purchase will have to be delayed.
> 
> When I mentioned the physical location, I meant something like a showroom where you can at least see the watch in metal. They don't have to sell watches themselves at these locations. I do understand that it is not reasonable to expect from a small brand, like Ming. Maybe when their production exceeds the demand that can be generated online among the enthusiast community we will see some movement in that direction, especially when their prices move up further. Even at their current price level, I find it hard to convince myself I really want it and not getting influenced by the hype train. Seeing it and trying it on might help.











Looking to 2021


Dear friends, Time to close off what’s been a challenging year for all of us with a few updates and some good news. I want to first apologize for the slight delays we’ve had from COVID’s impact this year. A watch needs a complex ecosystem and we and our partners are doing our best while things...




ming.watch







> Thank you also for the strong response to 19.05 - when we placed production orders 12 months ago, we honestly didn't think demand would be as high given volumes for 19.01 and 19.02. As further appreciation, we have given everybody on the 19.05 waitlist priority access to our new flagship launching next year.
> 
> The 17.06 and 18.01 H41 are officially retired as open market ETA2824 costs are all over the place for smaller brands, meaning we can't hold original pricing. And given we have more ideas than resources, it makes sense not to repeat ourselves. However, all hope is not lost as 2021 will bring:
> 
> ...


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## OnyxNight (Feb 2, 2019)

Wow, the art deco-inspired styling looks really great.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Looking to 2021
> 
> 
> Dear friends, Time to close off what’s been a challenging year for all of us with a few updates and some good news. I want to first apologize for the slight delays we’ve had from COVID’s impact this year. A watch needs a complex ecosystem and we and our partners are doing our best while things...
> ...


Thank you, this is very useful. I wonder what's the flagship model they are referring to in the blog post. And lightest watch with no Richard Mille-esque shenanigans ?


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

Big Ming fan/collector (and longtime mostly-lurker) checking in! I've been lucky enough to have followed the brand from the beginning. I picked up a Ming 19.02 worldtimer last year and it's been on my wrist nearly every day since - quite possibly my favorite watch ever. Really looking forward to what they have coming


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## EekTheCat (Feb 21, 2021)

Gotta love that space-age looking lume on the diver, nothing quite like it.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

My 17.03 Blue GMT LE.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

MING Diver watch 18.01 H41!


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Hey @singularityseven, I DMed you about your 18.01 a few days ago, please write back when you can!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Just got this e-mail from MING, with some "teaser" photographs of their upcoming lightweight watch:



> Dear friends,
> Work is progressing apace on our next SPC piece for the second half of 2021: what will probably be the world's lightest production mechanical watch.
> All we can say for now is that it's metal, automatic, has normal proportions, will weigh significantly under 15 grams, and won't cost anywhere near six figures.
> If you'd like to stay updated on this and other similar projects, register your interest for the Special Projects Cave here*.
> ...


_


























_


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Too bad special projects are just for existing customers. Just as well for me since they’re out of my price range anyway.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> Just got this e-mail from MING, with some "teaser" photographs of their upcoming lightweight watch:
> 
> _
> View attachment 15767353
> ...


Stunning photos! Any guesses as to what metal they're using?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yskhyr said:


> Stunning photos! Any guesses as to what metal they're using?


I suspect Titanium? They've used it in the past, and it is among the lighter metals used in watch cases.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

singularityseven said:


> Just got this e-mail from MING, with some "teaser" photographs of their upcoming lightweight watch:
> 
> _
> View attachment 15767353
> ...


"won't cost anywhere near six figures". I'm not sure if that is supposed to be comforting or frightening. ?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

brianinCA said:


> "won't cost anywhere near six figures". I'm not sure if that is supposed to be comforting or frightening. 😂


I saw that and didn't bother signing up for the SPC 😭😂


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## David76 (Dec 24, 2015)

The ming watch, of course, has a nice design. 
However, it is very difficult to buy and the price has risen too much even if you are currently buying it as used. 
I miss when 17.01 was released for $900.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

I missed the boat a bit on Ming, but do you guys think its still a good purchase at this price level? I saw a 17.06 for sale today at $5k. I like Ming's design language and unique look, but getting close to JLC price level here...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I missed the boat a bit on Ming, but do you guys think its still a good purchase at this price level? I saw a 17.06 for sale today at $5k. I like Ming's design language and unique look, but getting close to JLC price level here...


I've owned a 17.01 and 18.01 but no, I don't believe the 17.06 are *worth** 5k however hard the community tries to spin it. You'll hear stuff like "it was priced too low initially", or "it is a limited edition" or "you're paying for the design". All that is true, but only to an extent.

Sure, they *could* end up at $10k one day because of how unique they are, and based on Ming's movement in the market (also because us watch collectors are bonkers). But at $5k, I'd go with something else that delivers a more complete watch experience, like a Grand Seiko or even a pre-owned Oyster Perpetual.

A Ming at retail is the only kind of Ming I'd happily recommend, unless money is no object and you really want the watch. Imo, Ming at retail already accounts for the premium you're paying for their unique design language, and these inflated prices don't reflect the build quality, finishing or overall experience. The inflated prices merely offer you a chance at owning something that most others cannot. So it boils down to how much that is worth to you.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> I've owned a 17.01 and 18.01 but no, I don't believe the 17.06 are *worth** 5k however hard the community tries to spin it. You'll hear stuff like "it was priced too low initially", or "it is a limited edition" or "you're paying for the design". All that is true, but only to an extent.
> 
> Sure, they *could* end up at $10k one day because of how unique they are, and based on Ming's movement in the market (also because us watch collectors are bonkers). But at $5k, I'd go with something else that delivers a more complete watch experience, like a Grand Seiko or even a pre-owned Oyster Perpetual.
> 
> A Ming at retail is the only kind of Ming I'd happily recommend, unless money is no object and you really want the watch. Imo, Ming at retail already accounts for the premium you're paying for their unique design language, and these inflated prices don't reflect the build quality, finishing or overall experience. The inflated prices merely offer you a chance at owning something that most others cannot. So it boils down to how much that is worth to you.


The inflated prices are crazy (not just Ming but in the watch market at large), but for what it's worth, I've owned quite a few watches all across the board (from Mings to other microbrands all the way up to high-end indies) and the value that Ming represents for the price point is absolutely unrivaled in my opinion. I don't find it lacking at all in terms of finishing and quality compared to watches that I own that are quite a few multiples of the price (Omega, Rolex, etc) and find my Mings much more interesting. YMMV, of course!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yskhyr said:


> The inflated prices are crazy (not just Ming but in the watch market at large), but for what it's worth, I've owned quite a few watches all across the board (from Mings to other microbrands all the way up to high-end indies) and the value that Ming represents for the price point is absolutely unrivaled in my opinion. I don't find it lacking at all in terms of finishing and quality compared to watches that I own that are quite a few multiples of the price (Omega, Rolex, etc) and find my Mings much more interesting. YMMV, of course!


I'm happy to hear that. My experience with my 17.01 and 18.01 was good, but nowhere deserving of their secondary market prices, in my opinion. The lume on my 17.01 was absolutely horrendous. And upon much scrutiny, the finishing on my 18.01's case was nowhere close to what you'd expect from a 7-8k watch (or whatever ridiculous amount is being quoted for them now). The crown and crown tube did not feel high end, and it is hard to shake off the fact that there's a non-chronometer certified ETA2824-2 movement beating inside of it, which did in fact give me trouble the week that I received it. That said, the case finishing on the 17.01 was excellent and the bezel on the 18.01 was easily one of the best I've ever experienced.

Will I buy another Ming? Absolutely. I love the design, and I want to see this brand grow. They are a force to be reckoned with. I enjoy their designs and their watches, *but* _I can't_ say they're worth these ridiculous asking prices. The 17.01 was perhaps an over achiever and worth more than the $900 retail, but the 18.01 to me is worth exactly what Ming asked for it. But _my opinion_ means very little here, since these watches are unlikely to stop trading at these ridiculous prices. And that's primarily because there's nothing else like it.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I've owned a 17.01 and 18.01 but no, I don't believe the 17.06 are *worth** 5k however hard the community tries to spin it. You'll hear stuff like "it was priced too low initially", or "it is a limited edition" or "you're paying for the design". All that is true, but only to an extent.
> 
> Sure, they *could* end up at $10k one day because of how unique they are, and based on Ming's movement in the market (also because us watch collectors are bonkers). But at $5k, I'd go with something else that delivers a more complete watch experience, like a Grand Seiko or even a pre-owned Oyster Perpetual.
> 
> A Ming at retail is the only kind of Ming I'd happily recommend, unless money is no object and you really want the watch. Imo, Ming at retail already accounts for the premium you're paying for their unique design language, and these inflated prices don't reflect the build quality, finishing or overall experience. The inflated prices merely offer you a chance at owning something that most others cannot. So it boils down to how much that is worth to you.


Interesting, because I had the same idea (reservations) about the ETA-powered watch with a unique design going for this price level. I was perhaps persuaded by seeing how ubiquitous they are in very high-end collections. They feel quite at home next to some watches multiple times their price. However, I do think that once we step out of the WIS bubble, anything that is not a Rolex or Omega (or even them) is very unique. Perhaps it's the same reason I don't have the GS yet, as I keep thinking the Snowflake is too ubiquitous (on this forum, it might be, but out there - I don't think it is). So I keep trying to consider "more unique" models like the Kira-Zuri.

I agree that Ming will probably only rise in price and $5k for a 17.06 might seem like a bargain in a few months (it's my favorite Ming reference to date), but maybe I should just wait to get one at retail if I like the ones they announce next.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I'm happy to hear that. My experience with my 17.01 and 18.01 was good, but nowhere deserving of their secondary market prices, in my opinion. The lume on my 17.01 was absolutely horrendous. And upon much scrutiny, the finishing on my 18.01's case was nowhere close to what you'd expect from a 7-8k watch (or whatever ridiculous amount is being quoted for them now). The crown and crown tube did not feel high end, and it is hard to shake off the fact that there's a non-chronometer certified ETA2824-2 movement beating inside of it, which did in fact give me trouble the week that I received it. That said, the case finishing on the 17.01 was excellent and the bezel on the 18.01 was easily one of the best I've ever experienced.
> 
> Will I buy another Ming? Absolutely. I love the design, and I want to see this brand grow. They are a force to be reckoned with. I enjoy their designs and their watches, *but* _I can't_ say they're worth these ridiculous asking prices. The 17.01 was perhaps an over achiever and worth more than the $900 retail, but the 18.01 to me is worth exactly what Ming asked for it. But _my opinion_ means very little here, since these watches are unlikely to stop trading at these ridiculous prices. And that's primarily because there's nothing else like it.


Thank you for the perspective, it is hard to get a fair opinion on Ming these days. The brand seems to hold a special place among bloggers and collectors. Maybe because this is what the high-end collectors wanted - an affordable (for them) fun watch that is different from everything else in their collection. Also, I think Ming's strength lies in the idea that its design is so unique that it is really hard to put a price on it. Given current design trends, I can believe it's a $1k watch and I can also believe it's a $15k watch. There is not a stigma associated with it for high-end collectors, unlike Omega, GS, and even Rolex.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Interesting, because I had the same idea (reservations) about the ETA-powered watch with a unique design going for this price level. I was perhaps persuaded by seeing how ubiquitous they are in very high-end collections. They feel quite at home next to some watches multiple times their price. However, I do think that once we step out of the WIS bubble, anything that is not a Rolex or Omega (or even them) is very unique. Perhaps it's the same reason I don't have the GS yet, as I keep thinking the Snowflake is too ubiquitous (on this forum, it might be, but out there - I don't think it is). So I keep trying to consider "more unique" models like the Kira-Zuri.
> 
> I agree that Ming will probably only rise in price and $5k for a 17.06 might seem like a bargain in a few months (it's my favorite Ming reference to date), but maybe I should just wait to get one at retail if I like the ones they announce next.


I recently picked up a Grand Seiko Winter and a Minase Divido, and those are watches I will recommend for $5-6k without hesitation (and fyi, the Minase has an ETA2824-2 movement).

I love the 17.06 too, and I hope that their next (and final) 17 series release in the following months will be something I can buy. If not, there's always the next Ming, or the Ming after that. I think if you subtract the hype and inflated prices from these watches, you're left with a wonderful watch that is extremely interesting, and special. But while I'm on a finite budget, I will avoid paying over retail.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Thank you for the perspective, it is hard to get a fair opinion on Ming these days. The brand seems to hold a special place among bloggers and collectors. Maybe because this is what the high-end collectors wanted - an affordable (for them) fun watch that is different from everything else in their collection. Also, I think Ming's strength lies in the idea that its design is so unique that it is really hard to put a price on it. Given current design trends, I can believe it's a $1k watch and I can also believe it's a $15k watch. There is not a stigma associated with it for high-end collectors, unlike Omega, GS, and even Rolex.


Like I mentioned in my review of my Ming 18.01, as someone looking at the Ming from the "bottom up" (i.e the Ming would be one of my more expensive watches), it has a lot of expectations to meet. But most of my other friends that own Ming watches have significantly more expensive collections (and view it from the "top down", i.e this would be among their cheaper watches), and most often their expectations are met by the unique and interesting design alone. So to someone who owns a few Rolex Daytonas, Pateks and APs, what really is a few $1000 more to get a cool looking watch that most people don't have? Same model applies to Kurono Tokyo as well. Lovely watches, but hard to justify holding on to when you have a small collection and a finite budget.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> I'm happy to hear that. My experience with my 17.01 and 18.01 was good, but nowhere deserving of their secondary market prices, in my opinion. The lume on my 17.01 was absolutely horrendous. And upon much scrutiny, the finishing on my 18.01's case was nowhere close to what you'd expect from a 7-8k watch (or whatever ridiculous amount is being quoted for them now). The crown and crown tube did not feel high end, and it is hard to shake off the fact that there's a non-chronometer certified ETA2824-2 movement beating inside of it, which did in fact give me trouble the week that I received it. That said, the case finishing on the 17.01 was excellent and the bezel on the 18.01 was easily one of the best I've ever experienced.
> 
> Will I buy another Ming? Absolutely. I love the design, and I want to see this brand grow. They are a force to be reckoned with. I enjoy their designs and their watches, *but* _I can't_ say they're worth these ridiculous asking prices. The 17.01 was perhaps an over achiever and worth more than the $900 retail, but the 18.01 to me is worth exactly what Ming asked for it. But _my opinion_ means very little here, since these watches are unlikely to stop trading at these ridiculous prices. And that's primarily because there's nothing else like it.


Definitely fair on the 17.01 - the lume was indeed not good at all, but Ming will tell you that himself - it was much improved on the 17.06 and is much much better on his newer watches in general. I have an 18.01 and have no issue whatsoever with the case finishing/crown/crown tube though - it might just be an issue of expectations, but I've handled plenty of 7-8k watches, examined them under macro, etc. and don't find the 18.01 to be lacking at all in comparison in feel or finish (which isn't to say that I would pay $8k for one of them; Ming clearly doesn't feel they're worth $8K either, or else he would've charged that much). But from my perspective, when I say that the 18.01 is on par with $7-8k watches, I don't mean to say that the _Diver_ should be worth $7-8k, but I do mean to say that I feel that many $7-8k watches feel grossly overpriced in comparison to what Ming can put out for $4k.

Also, for what it's worth, I've been lucky enough to handle and/or photograph in detail just about every high-end watch under the sun, including those well into the six figures, so I've seen just how many flaws are in just about every watch out there at every price point. So I don't mean it lightly when I say that I have no issues with Ming's finishing and overall quality (in fact, I'm pretty much at the point where I'm only buying Mings, because I feel like everything else is lacking in comparison).


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> Like I mentioned in my review of my Ming 18.01, as someone looking at the Ming from the "bottom up" (i.e the Ming would be one of my more expensive watches), it has a lot of expectations to meet. But most of my other friends that own Ming watches have significantly more expensive collections (and view it from the "top down", i.e this would be among their cheaper watches), and most often their expectations are met by the unique and interesting design alone. So to someone who owns a few Rolex Daytonas, Pateks and APs, what really is a few $1000 more to get a cool looking watch that most people don't have? Same model applies to Kurono Tokyo as well. Lovely watches, but hard to justify holding on to when you have a small collection and a finite budget.


Ah, but I'm both - I own the usual suspects (AP/Patek/Journe/Rolex/Omega, Kurono and plenty of other microbrands, and then some off-the-wall higher-end indies)...and I have a Ming coming that will be the most money I've ever spent on any watch. I never thought of them in terms of a top-down "fun" add to my collection - I really, honestly, believe they belong among any of the higher-tier indies, to the point where I'm basically devoting 100% of my watch budget (and then some) to Ming and don't even wear any of my other watches. But maybe I'm a little crazy 😅


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yskhyr said:


> But from my perspective, when I say that the 18.01 is on par with $7-8k watches, I don't mean to say that the _Diver_ should be worth $7-8k, but I do mean to say that I feel that many $7-8k watches feel grossly overpriced in comparison to what Ming can put out for $4k.


I can agree with this in it's entirety. There are tons of "_Swiss Made_" 7-8k watches that can't hold up against the Ming 18.01.

My gripe with the Ming 18.01 crown was that the threads wouldn't always mate correctly, and I heard back from Ming CS that this was normal and a result of "machining tolerances". I was advised to back turn the crown to make sure things clicked into place perfectly, and then proceed to screw-down. This isn't new to me, but it's not something I've seen on a watch that is to be 7-8k (since we're talking "value" at secondary prices). I think even the document that shipped with the watch warned about the risks of cross threading. Perhaps this was because of the titanium crown/tube?

And when I was referring to the case finish, it was primarily the lugs. I didn't find this irregular (horizontal and diagonal) brushing worthy of $7-8k, but entirely easy to overlook on a $4k watch.











yskhyr said:


> Also, for what it's worth, I've been lucky enough to handle and/or photograph in detail just about every high-end watch under the sun, including those well into the six figures (I'm incognito here but you know who I am on IG - something about waiting...and lists ?), so I've seen just how many flaws are in just about every watch out there at every price point. So I don't mean it lightly when I say that I have no issues with Ming's finishing and overall quality (in fact, I'm pretty much at the point where I'm only buying Mings, because I feel like everything else is lacking in comparison).


Haha, now that I know (I think?) who you are, I will admit that you have a much better eye for detail, and a significantly more refined palette for watches than I do. And likely more experience collecting watches as well.

But to make my own perspective on this a bit more clearer - I spend most of my days with significantly cheaper watches, and spend hours being objective and critical about them. We're talking sub $500, sub $1000 & sub $1500 being the majority of the roughly 100 watches I've reviewed over the last 1 year alone. I admit there's a lot more chaff than wheat there. But there's some excellent quality and value for money in that category, so I might be conditioned to have unreasonable expectations from watches with drastically inflated secondary market prices, because for me the transition from the $4k watch category to a $7-8k watch category is a night & day kind of difference.

That said, I still love Ming watches, and I continue to look for that one Ming watch to add to my small collection. I'm really hoping that the next 17.X release will be within my spending capacity at the time, because I'm pretty sure that will be it, because lume aside, the 17.01 was perfect for me.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Like I mentioned in my review of my Ming 18.01, as someone looking at the Ming from the "bottom up" (i.e the Ming would be one of my more expensive watches), it has a lot of expectations to meet. But most of my other friends that own Ming watches have significantly more expensive collections (and view it from the "top down", i.e this would be among their cheaper watches), and most often their expectations are met by the unique and interesting design alone. So to someone who owns a few Rolex Daytonas, Pateks and APs, what really is a few $1000 more to get a cool looking watch that most people don't have? Same model applies to Kurono Tokyo as well. Lovely watches, but hard to justify holding on to when you have a small collection and a finite budget.


Can't agree more with your perspective. I am at the place where I am spending an unreasonable part of my income on filling my watch collection. With the limited budget, I am constantly faced with the choice between the iconic vs the interesting. So, in this sense, I am the "bottom-up" guy. But I also like to plan long term and have this fear that once I get to the "next" level, the forum favorites (this forum tends to be biased towards the great "bottom-up" choices: Snowflake, Omega Seamaster, Zenith EP, etc) will no longer fit in the collection. To be honest, I am pondering the option to liquidate my GO, as I can't escape the "value Lange 1" feeling despite my best attempts.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yskhyr said:


> Definitely fair on the 17.01 - the lume was indeed not good at all, but Ming will tell you that himself - it was much improved on the 17.06 and is much much better on his newer watches in general. I have an 18.01 and have no issue whatsoever with the case finishing/crown/crown tube though - it might just be an issue of expectations, but I've handled plenty of 7-8k watches, examined them under macro, etc. and don't find the 18.01 to be lacking at all in comparison in feel or finish (which isn't to say that I would pay $8k for one of them; Ming clearly doesn't feel they're worth $8K either, or else he would've charged that much). But from my perspective, when I say that the 18.01 is on par with $7-8k watches, I don't mean to say that the _Diver_ should be worth $7-8k, but I do mean to say that I feel that many $7-8k watches feel grossly overpriced in comparison to what Ming can put out for $4k.
> 
> Also, for what it's worth, I've been lucky enough to handle and/or photograph in detail just about every high-end watch under the sun, including those well into the six figures (I'm incognito here but you know who I am on IG - something about waiting...and lists 😅), so I've seen just how many flaws are in just about every watch out there at every price point. So I don't mean it lightly when I say that I have no issues with Ming's finishing and overall quality (in fact, I'm pretty much at the point where I'm only buying Mings, because I feel like everything else is lacking in comparison).


Oh hey, I am a fan of your IG. How is that catsitting going? For someone who is getting the first Ming, would you recommend the 17.xx or 27.xx? Especially if I am only planning (for now) to have one Ming in my long-term collection.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yskhyr said:


> Ah, but I'm both - I own the usual suspects (AP/Patek/Journe/Rolex/Omega, Kurono and plenty of other microbrands, and then some off-the-wall higher-end indies)...and I have a Ming coming that will be the most money I've ever spent on any watch. I never thought of them in terms of a top-down "fun" add to my collection - I really, honestly, believe they belong among any of the higher-tier indies, to the point where I'm basically devoting 100% of my watch budget (and then some) to Ming and don't even wear any of my other watches. But maybe I'm a little crazy 😅


Given the other names mentioned, I struggle to imagine what that Ming that costs more than the others would look like...


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Oh hey, I am a fan of your IG. How is that catsitting going? For someone who is getting the first Ming, would you recommend the 17.xx or 27.xx? Especially if I am only planning (for now) to have one Ming in my long-term collection.


Haha, thanks! I just got done feeding the cats dinner, actually 😅 As a first ming - I'd wait for the next 17.XX to be unveiled and see if you can get that at retail, which will almost assuredly be a better bang for the buck than grabbing a 17.06 or 27.01 or 27.02 (when it delivers) on the secondary. That said, the 17.06 copper and slate are among the most beautiful watches I own.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Given the other names mentioned, I struggle to imagine what that Ming that costs more than the others would look like...


Haha, you can find it over on the Special Projects Cave section of Ming's website (renders only at the moment, though...)


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yskhyr said:


> Haha, you can find it over on the Special Projects Cave section of Ming's website (renders only at the moment, though...)


Man, I can't wait to see your shots of that one.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> My gripe with the Ming 18.01 crown was that the threads wouldn't always mate correctly, and I heard back from Ming CS that this was normal and a result of "machining tolerances". I was advised to back turn the crown to make sure things clicked into place perfectly, and then proceed to screw-down. This isn't new to me, but it's not something I've seen on a watch that is to be 7-8k (since we're talking "value" at secondary prices). I think even the document that shipped with the watch warned about the risks of cross threading. Perhaps this was because of the titanium crown/tube?


Ah, I actually find I have to do the same the same with my AP Royal Oak's screw-down crown, so I don't think it's a titanium thing (or a price point thing). I always turn back any screw-down crown a bit to line it up before screwing it down - I think it's probably just good practice since the risk of cross-threading is always there no matter how well it's machined.



singularityseven said:


> Haha, now that I know (I think?) who you are, I will admit that you have a much better eye for detail, and a significantly more refined palette for watches than I do. And likely more experience collecting watches as well.
> 
> But to make my own perspective on this a bit more clearer - I spend most of my days with significantly cheaper watches, and spend hours being objective and critical about them. We're talking sub $500, sub $1000 & sub $1500 being the majority of the roughly 100 watches I've reviewed over the last 1 year alone. I admit there's a lot more chaff than wheat there. But there's some excellent quality and value for money in that category, so I might be conditioned to have unreasonable expectations from watches with drastically inflated secondary market prices, because for me the transition from the $4k watch category to a $7-8k watch category is a night & day kind of difference.
> 
> That said, I still love Ming watches, and I continue to look for that one Ming watch to add to my small collection. I'm really hoping that the next 17.X release will be within my spending capacity at the time, because I'm pretty sure that will be it, because lume aside, the 17.01 was perfect for me.


Ha, thanks! And I totally get where you're coming from - I think unfortunately you'll find that there's a pretty steep diminishing returns curve in terms of price vs quality as you get into higher-end watches. The reality is, if you're looking to find flaws, you can find them (plenty of them) in pretty much any watch, as long as you're looking - it's really just going to be a matter of whether you can live with those particular flaws or not. Perfection is essentially impossible to achieve unless you're Greubel Forsey spending hundreds of hours finishing a watch, and the number of watchmakers that can achieve that level of quality is vanishingly small (hence why they make a small handful of watches a year and charge what they do for them).

Random anecdotes: I just had a friend send a six-figure watch back to the manufacture for repair because black oxidation spots started forming on the dial a couple years into ownership; my AP royal oak that I bought new a few years ago has a sticky date window that takes an hour to flip over and does it at 4AM; I currently have a watch that trades well into the five figures that's been away at service for months because the seconds hand fell off when I brushed my hand against into a table. It's natural if you're looking upward at this range of watches that you'd expect them to reach perfection, but it's unfortunately not the case. It's a bit like high-end cars in that sense - it's more likely the case that the more money you spend, the more "quirky" and temperamental the watch can be (I know nothing about cars, so maybe this analogy is off-base, but you get my drift).


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yskhyr said:


> Ah, I actually find I have to do the same the same with my AP Royal Oak's screw-down crown, so I don't think it's a titanium thing (or a price point thing). I always turn back any screw-down crown a bit to line it up before screwing it down - I think it's probably just good practice since the risk of cross-threading is always there no matter how well it's machined.


Yes, you're absolutely right. The more high end watches I experience, the more I realize the idea of diminishing returns. Or maybe it's one of those "Don't ever meet your heroes" problems 😂


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

The next and final installment of the Ming 17 series will be announced next Monday, according to this post on Ming's Instagram account:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CNAl6x0r_mY/



> In the meantime, if you haven't signed up for our newsletter, we recommend doing so ASAP as prelaunch info for the new 17-series goes out next #mingmonday ?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> The next and final installment of the Ming 17 series will be announced next Monday, according to this post on Ming's Instagram account:
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CNAl6x0r_mY/


Thank you for the heads-up. I want to make sure I don't miss out on this (like I very very stupidly did on the 27.02). I assume it will be a stampede (like sold out in 30 seconds concert tickets style stampede?) Any tips for someone going into this for the first time? Will call my bank to make sure payment doesn't bounce, can't think of anything else to improve my chances.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Thank you for the heads-up. I want to make sure I don't miss out on this (like I very very stupidly did on the 27.02). I assume it will be a stampede (like sold out in 30 seconds concert tickets style stampede?) Any tips for someone going into this for the first time? Will call my bank to make sure payment doesn't bounce, can't think of anything else to improve my chances.


Unfortunately I don't have any useful tips. Informing your bank is a good idea, since a lot of folks complain about their banks blocking the transaction. I will most likely take part in this release too, since the 17 series really appeals to me. I just hope that this batch isn't a lot more expensive than their other 17s.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Unfortunately I don't have any useful tips. Informing your bank is a good idea, since a lot of folks complain about their banks blocking the transaction. I will most likely take part in this release too, since the 17 series really appeals to me. I just hope that this batch isn't a lot more expensive than their other 17s.


Yeah, below $2.0k would be acceptable for me (primarily because I have a few other options in the $2.0-2.5k range). Really hope the design will be similar to 17.01 or 17.06 (guilloche center). And hopefully green too (Idk what's wrong with me, I developed a craving for a dark green, like British racing green, watch)!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Yeah, below $2.0k would be acceptable for me (primarily because I have a few other options in the $2.0-2.5k range). Really hope the design will be similar to 17.01 or 17.06 (guilloche center). And hopefully green too (Idk what's wrong with me, I developed a craving for a dark green, like British racing green, watch)!


I think below $2k is unlikely since they hinted at doing something unique with the movement in their email earlier this year:


> The final chapter of the 17-series, in several variants, with a movement unique to us


So I have my fingers crossed for a sub-$3k watch that has some interesting dial colors.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

I am looking forward to receiving my 27.01.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I think below $2k is unlikely since they hinted at doing something unique with the movement in their email earlier this year:
> 
> So I have my fingers crossed for a sub-$3k watch that has some interesting dial colors.


Oh, I missed the part about unique movement. Wouldn't mind paying more for the same approach to the movement as seen in the 27.xx (skeletonization). Yeah, in that case, sub-$3k is more likely. Personally, I have a much higher vetting process for below $2k and $2.5-$5k. For the former category, it would be close to auto-buy if I can see it fitting in my long-term collection (any Ming would fulfill this criterion). For the latter category, it would have to prevail over a group of pretty strong competitors.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

The Ming 17.09 was just announced: MING 17.09: Pre-launch information



> Good news! The next 17-series will launch very soon.
> 
> To improve the purchasing experience and address demand, we are trying a few new things. Firstly, full details and images of the 17.09 will be released on 12 April 2021 at 1PM GMT, two days ahead of orders opening.
> 
> ...


I'm very pleased to see the introduction of a time limited batch among the three total batches. I can already see some folks complaining about the roughly 1 year wait time, but it's a fair attempt at trying to get everyone one of these watches. Given that these watches will be (450 + 10 minutes worth of orders) in number, maybe it will deter folks from buying with the sole intention of reselling at a higher price, resulting in a smoother release overall.

More information regarding the 10 minute order window here: On addressing demand and time limited batches...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Until more information is released on the 12th, here are some teasers by the very talented LYR:


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

I’m so stoked for the time limited window on April 16. Listening to their collectors who want to be able to own without worrying about scalpers.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> I'm so stoked for the time limited window on April 16. Listening to their collectors who want to be able to own without worrying about scalpers.


Yeah, I think 10 minutes is sufficient for anyone to get through the system. I can't wait to see what it looks like.


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## David76 (Dec 24, 2015)

It may take some time to purchase MING's watch, but it is seen as a fair attempt. 
I'm looking forward to it. 



singularityseven said:


> The Ming 17.09 was just announced: MING 17.09: Pre-launch information
> 
> I'm very pleased to see the introduction of a time limited batch among the three total batches. I can already see some folks complaining about the roughly 1 year wait time, but it's a fair attempt at trying to get everyone one of these watches. Given that these watches will be (450 + 10 minutes worth of orders) in number, maybe it will deter folks from buying with the sole intention of reselling at a higher price, resulting in a smoother release overall.
> 
> More information regarding the 10 minute order window here: On addressing demand and time limited batches...


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Yeah, I think 10 minutes is sufficient for anyone to get through the system. I can't wait to see what it looks like.


Looks like it will be a GMT model with double guilloche (Clous de Paris from the outside fading into the ricochet-like pattern in the center). At least that's my interpretation of the teaser image.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Looks like it will be a GMT model with double guilloche (Clous de Paris from the outside fading into the ricochet-like pattern in the center). At least that's my interpretation of the teaser image.


I'll be very impressed if they're able to pull off a GMT for CHF 1950!


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

and in burgundy, cherry colour?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yadel said:


> and in burgundy, cherry colour?


I suspect one will be burgundy/red and the other will be blue/sky blue, just based on the colors on both teaser images.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

Any guesses on what the base movement for this will be? My guess is that it will not be a GMT, but a 3 hander with an independent hour hand (similar to what Omega has), but I can't really think off the top of my head any off the shelf movements with that functionality on which Ming can modify.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> I suspect one will be burgundy/red and the other will be blue/sky blue, just based on the colors on both teaser images.


Oh my here we go again! And I just promised myself watch buying moratorium


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

monsters said:


> Any guesses on what the base movement for this will be? My guess is that it will not be a GMT, but a 3 hander with an independent hour hand (similar to what Omega has), but I can't really think off the top of my head any off the shelf movements with that functionality on which Ming can modify.


I suspect a regular 3 hander too. I don't have any ideas about the movement, so I'm quite curious to know more. Maybe a modified STP? There's not much to go on now.



yadel said:


> Oh my here we go again! And I just promised myself watch buying moratorium


😂


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I'll be very impressed if they're able to pull off a GMT for CHF 1950!


Judging by the airplane (that looks like the GMT "hand" on 17.03) and "independently adjustable hour hand", I guess it will be a GMT. But yes, that's impressive value! Curious to know your take on the "unlimited" nature of this release? I think it's a good move for the public, but wouldn't it reduce "exclusivity" and possibly affect interest from collectors?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

monsters said:


> Any guesses on what the base movement for this will be? My guess is that it will not be a GMT, but a 3 hander with an independent hour hand (similar to what Omega has), but I can't really think off the top of my head any off the shelf movements with that functionality on which Ming can modify.


I think they did say its an exclusive movement, so I don't think it will be off-the-shelf ETA/Sellita.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Judging by the airplane (that looks like the GMT "hand" on 17.03) and "independently adjustable hour hand", I guess it will be a GMT. But yes, that's impressive value! Curious to know your take on the "unlimited" nature of this release? I think it's a good move for the public, but wouldn't it reduce "exclusivity" and possibly affect interest from collectors?


I like the "unlimited" aspect of this release. I'm tired of all the "exclusivity" being forced upon us by brands of late. I just want to be able to get a watch that I want if I want it, even if it means waiting. At this point, I personally couldn't care less if the value drops from CHF1950 to CHF0 on the secondary market because it isn't desirable enough (which it wont).

That said, if exclusivity and collectibility is a priority, some of the other Ming releases slated for this year should be more appealing, like the very lightweight Special Projects Cave release, and I suspect the first Mosaic dial too. But for me, this is looking like the perfect Ming release - free of any baggage associated with secondary value, exclusivity and conductibility.



RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I think they did say its an exclusive movement, so I don't think it will be off-the-shelf ETA/Sellita.


Yeah, maybe they designed something more "mass manufacture"-able with Schwarz Etienne?


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I think they did say its an exclusive movement, so I don't think it will be off-the-shelf ETA/Sellita.


Tbh the exclusive movement is likely why they're able to offer a time limited release in the first place. The original barrier to making more watches was always the limited availability/variable pricing of ETA. Going back to older releases they definitely intended to have certain models as regular production models but the supply of eta movements killed that approach.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

After reading slightly too much into the teasers, I think it will be a Clous de Paris dial with gradient sapphire crystal (like on 27.02) that starts in the center and fades away towards the edges. You can see that both teasers have a planet/sphere motive. I am getting too excited... Can't decide on the color though, Burgundy seems like the way to go, but I have a weakness for blue watches.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I like the "unlimited" aspect of this release. I'm tired of all the "exclusivity" being forced upon us by brands of late. I just want to be able to get a watch that I want if I want it, even if it means waiting. At this point, I personally couldn't care less if the value drops from CHF1950 to CHF0 on the secondary market because it isn't desirable enough (which it wont).
> 
> That said, if exclusivity and collectibility is a priority, some of the other Ming releases slated for this year should be more appealing, like the very lightweight Special Projects Cave release, and I suspect the first Mosaic dial too. But for me, this is looking like the perfect Ming release - free of any baggage associated with secondary value, exclusivity and conductibility.
> 
> Yeah, maybe they designed something more "mass manufacture"-able with Schwarz Etienne?


Yeah, I don't care about the exclusivity, just wanted to see how existing Ming-owners think about this.

My guess would be an exclusive Schwarz Etienne movement that will be reused for later releases. The price difference between the 17.06 and this release should be able to cover the extra cost of the movement. It will most probably have a sapphire case back (the red teaser suggests a spherical dial and transparent back). My question would be if we will see skeletonization of the movement, like on the 27.02.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Yeah, I don't care about the exclusivity, just wanted to see how existing Ming-owners think about this.
> 
> My guess would be an exclusive Schwarz Etienne movement that will be reused for later releases. The price difference between the 17.06 and this release should be able to cover the extra cost of the movement. It will most probably have a sapphire case back (the red teaser suggests a spherical dial and transparent back). My question would be if we will see skeletonization of the movement, like on the 27.02.


Wow you've been looking at the teasers a lot more carefully than I have. I'm not big on sapphire case backs, but if there's something worth looking at (like the skeletonized 27.02), then I'm in.


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## NotPennysBoat (Aug 10, 2020)

I’m finding myself loving this brand more and more 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

They just replied to an Instagram comment and confirmed that "The 17.09 is not a GMT".


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> They just replied to an Instagram comment and confirmed that "The 17.09 is not a GMT".


Ah, that's great actually. I don't care much for GMT watches. This is looking really great in my head


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## JTK Awesome (Apr 4, 2018)

Huh, so this guy also makes watches?


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

I’ve said this a lot in my watch buying career, but this could be the ONE! 

... or maybe the two... or the three.

Either way, I’m quite excited by this particular Ming. Could be interesting!


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## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

My apologies as I did read the last two pages, but to confirm the new Ming model won’t have limited supply? We’ll have a better chance to preorder?


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Jason Bourne said:


> My apologies as I did read the last two pages, but to confirm the new Ming model won't have limited supply? We'll have a better chance to preorder?


Yup, ALL orders placed in that 10 minute window will be honored. Whether they get 100 orders or 1,000,000 in that 10 minutes 

I just hope their website/servers don't go down and we can't make a purchase in the time limit :[


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Jason Bourne said:


> My apologies as I did read the last two pages, but to confirm the new Ming model won't have limited supply? We'll have a better chance to preorder?


Yeah, batch 3 of this release will be TIME-LIMITED, so there will be a 10 mins window where they will take every order.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

Love the timed release. Hopefully it’s as good a design as their previous models.


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## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

That’s awesome news. For $2,000 I may have to bite. I’m glad they’ll reveal the watch beforehand. I’m hoping it’ll be super thin like that 27 models.

Also, how can we all make sure the website doesn’t crash? Anything we can do to our phones/computers? Lol.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Jason Bourne said:


> Also, how can we all make sure the website doesn't crash? Anything we can do to our phones/computers? Lol.


As a computer engineer by profession, I recommend keeping your fingers crossed or praying to your God(s) of choice.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)




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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> As a computer engineer by profession, I recommend keeping your fingers crossed or praying to your God(s) of choice.


Also, it never hurts to sacrifice a goat.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Jason Bourne said:


> That's awesome news. For $2,000 I may have to bite. I'm glad they'll reveal the watch beforehand. I'm hoping it'll be super thin like that 27 models.
> 
> Also, how can we all make sure the website doesn't crash? Anything we can do to our phones/computers? Lol.


I doubt it will be super-thin though. Otherwise, I don't see how this release is half the price of the 27.xx series.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

Exactly. This is already very good for $2000
"17.09 has a *movement exclusive to us with an independently adjustable hour hand, Clous-de-Paris dial, 38mm diameter, two colour options".*


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yadel said:


> Exactly. This is already very good for $2000
> "17.09 has a *movement exclusive to us with an independently adjustable hour hand, Clous-de-Paris dial, 38mm diameter, two colour options".*


I do have a question about the adjustable hour hand though. Does that mean that the hour hand is unsynchronized from the minute hand? As in, it will be possible to make the hour hand hit the marker when minute hand is at the 6 (or 3 or 5) o'clock position rather than 12 o'clock position? Cause it will be a nightmare for me, I hate it when the minute hand doesn't exactly hit the marker for example.


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## EekTheCat (Feb 21, 2021)

I had a chuckle ?



singularityseven said:


> As a computer engineer by profession, I recommend keeping your fingers crossed or praying to your God(s) of choice.





AnonPi said:


> Also, it never hurts to sacrifice a goat.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I do have a question about the adjustable hour hand though. Does that mean that the hour hand is unsynchronized from the minute hand? As in, it will be possible to make the hour hand hit the marker when minute hand is at the 6 (or 3 or 5) o'clock position rather than 12 o'clock position? Cause it will be a nightmare for me, I hate it when the minute hand doesn't exactly hit the marker for example.


It is a convinient feature to have a independently adjustable hour hand when it is done well. Though this is usually in GMT watches, you can change the time without moving the minute hand . But I hope there won't be any alignment issues.


----------



## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I do have a question about the adjustable hour hand though. Does that mean that the hour hand is unsynchronized from the minute hand? As in, it will be possible to make the hour hand hit the marker when minute hand is at the 6 (or 3 or 5) o'clock position rather than 12 o'clock position? Cause it will be a nightmare for me, I hate it when the minute hand doesn't exactly hit the marker for example.


Can't say 100%, but I assume it would be like Omega's... 8500(?) Master Coaxial movements where you can change the hour independently. (So you can jump from say, 3:30 to 4:30 by moving the hour hand once, without having to scroll the minute hand a full circle). They had this on a few generations for the Aqua Terra for example (non-GMT watch).

If it is the same as Omega's, then you won't have issues with synching the minute and hour hands, as the Hour hand adjustment jumps a FULL hour in either direction. (Again, example is jumping from precisely 3:30 directly to precisely 4:30 without moving the minute hand).


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Can't say 100%, but I assume it would be like Omega's... 8500(?) Master Coaxial movements where you can change the hour independently. (So you can jump from say, 3:30 to 4:30 by moving the hour hand once, without having to scroll the minute hand a full circle). They had this on a few generations for the Aqua Terra for example (non-GMT watch).
> 
> If it is the same as Omega's, then you won't have issues with synching the minute and hour hands, as the Hour hand adjustment jumps a FULL hour in either direction. (Again, example is jumping from precisely 3:30 directly to precisely 4:30 without moving the minute hand).


Ah I see, that would be great!


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Can't say 100%, but I assume it would be like Omega's... 8500(?) Master Coaxial movements where you can change the hour independently. (So you can jump from say, 3:30 to 4:30 by moving the hour hand once, without having to scroll the minute hand a full circle). They had this on a few generations for the Aqua Terra for example (non-GMT watch).
> 
> If it is the same as Omega's, then you won't have issues with synching the minute and hour hands, as the Hour hand adjustment jumps a FULL hour in either direction. (Again, example is jumping from precisely 3:30 directly to precisely 4:30 without moving the minute hand).


Yeah that's what I was expecting too. I had that feature on my Omega Globemaster and it was very convenient.


----------



## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

Many will gear up to get the new 17.09 on 14 April.


----------



## ilkerhos (Jun 9, 2019)

Looking forward to be a proud Ming owner soon. Hopefully... Is there anyone who knows what should I expect from a shipment from Malaysia to England? Would customs be a problem? Is there an upper price limit for the customs? Sorry for my ignorance...


----------



## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> They just replied to an Instagram comment and confirmed that "The 17.09 is not a GMT".


Although, strictly speaking, that doesn't rule out the possibility of it being a dual time watch.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Another teaser on Instagram -

__
http://instagr.am/p/CNcisl2LAo5/










Me trying to explain to my buddies what I see in these teasers:


----------



## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

Well, the only thing these teasers appear to have in common is flying craft, so, some sort of space age flieger?


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Another teaser on Instagram -
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CNcisl2LAo5/
> ...


In the new teaser, we see the dial layout. It seems it will be non-numerical markers this time. Also, the case shape is hidden in the aircraft. Looks to me like we might be seeing the 19.xx style lugs (more 3D and curved down than 17.xx) and what appears to be hollowed-out case sides?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> Well, the only thing these teasers appear to have in common is flying craft, so, some sort of space age flieger?


A lot of details are common actually if you look closely


----------



## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> A lot of details are common actually if you look closely


I was intentionally overlooking those other details.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> In the new teaser, we see the dial layout. It seems it will be non-numerical markers this time. Also, the case shape is hidden in the aircraft. Looks to me like we might be seeing the 19.xx style lugs (more 3D and curved down than 17.xx) and what appears to be hollowed-out case sides?


Yeah, I suspected solid lugs but hollowed out case sides too. If that's true, I'm going to be very, very excited.


----------



## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Naooo I wanted numerals 

I just noticed a few days ago that none of my watches have numerals...


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Naooo I wanted numerals
> 
> I just noticed a few days ago that none of my watches have numerals...


Same here haha


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Naooo I wanted numerals
> 
> I just noticed a few days ago that none of my watches have numerals...


Having owned one with numerals (17.01) and one without (18.01), I found the one without to be a bit more appealing, and in tune with this futuristic design aesthetic.



















That said, either would do for me at this point.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> Having owned one with numerals (17.01) and one without (18.01), I found the one without to be a bit more appealing, and in tune with this futuristic design aesthetic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great looking watches. Which one is your fav? Maybe a comparison video on the horizon?


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> Having owned one with numerals (17.01) and one without (18.01), I found the one without to be a bit more appealing, and in tune with this futuristic design aesthetic.
> 
> That said, either would do for me at this point.


Both look nice, but I prefer the 17.01 out of those 2. Totally subjective of course, but I feel the non-numeral models look / feel more... "micro-brandy" (and I mean, cheap random brands that try too hard).

I also like how the numerals connect to the ring in the middle. (Except for the 7, which looks weird... and the 9, that I read as a 6)


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

yes especially 9 and 7 looks weird .


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yadel said:


> Great looking watches. Which one is your fav? Maybe a comparison video on the horizon?


The 18.01 is my favorite of the two overall, but I enjoyed the 17.01 quite a bit too and I'm hoping the 17.09 will fill the void left by the 17.01.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Both look nice, but I prefer the 17.01 out of those 2. Totally subjective of course, but I feel the non-numeral models look / feel more... "micro-brandy" (and I mean, cheap random brands that try too hard).
> 
> I also like how the numerals connect to the ring in the middle. (Except for the 7, which looks weird... and the 9, that I read as a 6)


I think the idea for non-numerals is to enhance radial symmetry. However, I kinda like the numerals in that it breaks up radial symmetry just enough to provide visual interest without ruining the design.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

I hope it will look different enough than this Cherry . So Ming being "original and different" doesn't suffer


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yadel said:


> I hope it will look different enough than this Cherry . So Ming being "original and different" doesn't suffer


If Ming makes a small seconds watch at some point, I will sell whatever I need to sell to get it.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

if they start making similiar looking watches like alot of brands do. I don't think they will enjoy this popularity. Especially if they take design cues from the brands they coloborate like Schwarz Etiene. Then I am selling my Ming and never looking back. Ming became very popular because they came up with something looking very different and fresh at the begining. At least in my eyes.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> If Ming makes a small seconds watch at some point, I will sell whatever I need to sell to get it.


Why small seconds though, I think center seconds look more modern -> fits Ming better?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Why small seconds though, I think center seconds look more modern -> fits Ming better?


No logic behind that, just an irrational attraction towards the small seconds layout. I don't think we'll see one, because Ming rarely ever does center seconds to begin with!


----------



## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

4/12 is the reveal correct? Any idea us est time?


----------



## jimmd (Aug 4, 2019)

Jason Bourne said:


> 4/12 is the reveal correct? Any idea us est time?


9 AM Eastern


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

MING 17.09: Pre-launch information


Good news! The next 17-series will launch very soon. To improve the purchasing experience and address demand, we are trying a few new things. Firstly, full details and images of the 17.09 will be released on 12 April 2021 at 1PM GMT, two days ahead of orders opening.We will have three order...




ming.watch


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

I like it, classic Ming lines. But I also have a few problems with it. First, we still have no idea if it is quartz, auto or hand wound. Then, the minute hand is way too close to the hour hand, length wise. And that's it. That's the extent of my disliking. 

Praying to the gods it's an automatic movement so I can move on....


----------



## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

Introducing - The new MING 17.09 (Specs & Price)


The brand begins the farewell to its 17-series with the new MING 17.09, which brings the new design language in an entry-level piece.




monochrome-watches.com





It's auto. I like the burgundy.


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

Stunning...now which coolour


jmariorebelo said:


> I like it, classic Ming lines. But I also have a few problems with it. First, we still have no idea if it is quartz, auto or hand wound. Then, the minute hand is way too close to the hour hand, length wise. And that's it. That's the extent of my disliking.
> 
> Praying to the gods it's an automatic movement so I can move on....



Movement:
Cal. 330.M1 - based on the Sellita SW330-2, with independent hours
Modified by Manufacture Schwarz-Etienne, exclusive to MING
42-hour power reserve
28,800 bph (4Hz)
25 jewels
Hacking function
Movement regulated with a 250-hour test program

Click on the specifications tab...looks like prayers worked?


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Gonna try to pick up the blue


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

Reiterating for the 10th time about how happy I am that this is a time limited release, rather than number limited.

I hope this drives the secondary to MSRP, so the masses can enjoy the beauty of a Ming. Now blue or red? or BOTH?!


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Seems can order both because it is stated 1 per variant? Will try to order the blue one to see if I can get it.


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## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

Do you need to be a subscriber to purchase the watch on their website?


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

monsters said:


> Reiterating for the 10th time about how happy I am that this is a time limited release, rather than number limited.
> 
> I hope this drives the secondary to MSRP, so the masses can enjoy the beauty of a Ming. Now blue or red? or BOTH?!


Yep, this timed release is a fantastic way of addressing the issues that have been plaguing the brand. Finally what seems to be a proper solution, I hope it works (can't see you it could fail tbh, other than ming not being able to fulfill all the orders; that'd be completely unacceptable...)

As for the colours, I'm feeling both of them. Paradox of choice in full effect.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I'm still digesting this watch, but I like it. Very interesting that they would take a SW330-1 GMT movement and hack it to be an independently adjustable hour hand 3 hander. I do like the SW3XX series, and I've had good experiences with all of them. Blue or Burgundy... hmm...


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Ok, so I was really reading too much into the teasers. I was quite underwhelmed with this, but that's partially on my misguided expectations.

What I like:

The colors - both colors seem to work well. I am leaning towards the Burgundy (mainly because its harder to find this color on the market than blue), but do have concerns that it might be too dark. I generally dislike colors that fade into black under most lighting conditions.
The case - classic Ming case shape, nothing to complain about.
Lume-filled sapphire - probably a highlight of 17.09.
Handset - not 100% sure that I like it more than the previous handsets, but looks good.
What I don't like (expected this list to be much shorter):

Clous de Paris - I think what made the 17.01 and 17.06 so great are the bold patterns in the center of the dial. Looked dramatic and insanely photogenic, very futuristic too. This fine pattern, I am not sure. The main problem is under the classic combination of insufficient lighting and subpar camera gear, it will create this interference pattern where the section of the image looks distorted. I had the same problem photographing my Panoreserve, where the fine snailing on the dial is insanely hard to capture. Most of the time it just looks like the distorted images on old TVs. I can already see that problem in some images of the 17.09: 17.09. Look at the images WITHOUT clicking on the link for specific colors.
No sapphire case back - yes, it's not a fair criticism, because Ming Thein has stated he only shows the movement if there is anything to show. However, a less decorated version of the skeletonization on 27.02 would have been great.
Overall, I am not sure this is an improvement over 17.06. Ming has stated he will only raise prices if the improvements justify them. While I do feel that there are some improvements to this reference, it mostly feels like a side-grade rather than an upgrade. The "exclusive" movement is basically a Sellita with jumping hour hands, which is ok.
I will still order it, but I kind of feel that more for FOMO (and because secondary market prices for 17.06 and 27.02 are prohibitive) than actually because I fully like the design. Not even sure this is better than the pre-owned 17.01 (secondary prices on those are close to MSRP of 17.09).


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

This is the effect I am talking about


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## BRN (Jan 28, 2019)

I want to dislike those lugs but they just work so well as a whole package.
This is not a watch for me but I can appreciate what Ming is doing with their releases.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Prior to seeing the photos I was looking forward to the Burgundy color, especially based on the colors used in the 'teaser' paintings.

But after seeing the reveal, I am definitely strongly leaning toward the blue.

It works out though, as I no longer have a blue dial in my collection, and already have a Burgundy JLC Reverso.

My MAIN 2 semi-complaints are that there is no display caseback (would like to see the modified movement, as I think that is unique enough to justify seeing), and a shorter strap. The strap looks great but according to their site, fits 6.1" wrists at the minimum. I am technically 6.05" lol, and hate wearing straps on the first hole with tons of tail end sticking out


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> View attachment 15821993
> 
> 
> This is the effect I am talking about


I actually like that interference you mention. It's a watch so minutely refined cameras can't convey the effect properly, they have to be experienced in person. Makes it a bit more special IMO


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

jmariorebelo said:


> I like it, classic Ming lines. But I also have a few problems with it. First, we still have no idea if it is quartz, auto or hand wound. Then, the minute hand is way too close to the hour hand, length wise. And that's it. That's the extent of my disliking.
> 
> Praying to the gods it's an automatic movement so I can move on....


Has Ming ever done a quartz release? I'm not aware of any. I don't see why they'd start now.



RetiredKarlMarx said:


> View attachment 15821993
> 
> 
> This is the effect I am talking about





jmariorebelo said:


> I actually like that interference you mention. It's a watch so minutely refined cameras can't convey the effect properly, they have to be experienced in person. Makes it a bit more special IMO


For what it's worth, the specific name for this type of interference pattern is Moiré (also aliasing; the two are related in this context). Fortunately, this pattern at least you're not gonna see when you look at your watch with your own eyes, as the second interfering pattern causing it is related to the camera and/or downscaling algorithm being used. I don't mind too much owning a watch that merely causes thumbnails to render poorly.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

CydeWeys said:


> Has Ming ever done a quartz release? I'm not aware of any. I don't see why they'd start now.
> 
> For what it's worth, the specific name for this type of interference pattern is Moiré (also aliasing; the two are related in this context).


Oh, I didn't know the name of the effect, thank you! Is there any way to mitigate this effect in pictures?


----------



## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Oh, I didn't know the name of the effect, thank you! Is there any way to mitigate this effect in pictures?


Yes, use a descreen filter. Photoshop (among many others) can do it. Or in this particular case, use a smarter image downscaling algorithm in the first place when downsizing to the smaller image. Looks like a naive algorithm was used here that caused the Moiré. Probably just ImageMagick in default mode or similar.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> I actually like that interference you mention. It's a watch so minutely refined cameras can't convey the effect properly, they have to be experienced in person. Makes it a bit more special IMO


Eh, I have the same problem on my Pano. More annoying than special tbh. The experience in person boils down to trying to find a source of light to actually see the patterns.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

CydeWeys said:


> Yes, use a descreen filter. Photoshop (among many others) can do it.


Thank you! This is really helpful actually. Will try that on my GO tonight.


----------



## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Eh, I have the same problem on my Pano. More annoying than special tbh. The experience in person boils down to trying to find a source of light to actually see the patterns.


It's probably gonna involve choosing the resampling algorithm when resizing the original raw image to your new smaller size.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

CydeWeys said:


> It's probably gonna involve choosing the resampling algorithm when resizing the original raw image to your new smaller size.


I am just starting to experiment with photography, so not sure what do you mean by resampling algorithm (will read up on it though). My comment was meant to highlight that in real-life situations, the dial will look flatter than expected due to the fine texture collapsing and looking flat.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

As always with Ming, I like the design, but I don't really see the point of independently adjustable hour hands and a hacking movement, to be honest. The watch has no minute indices and no second hand, so I wouldn't be able to read a precise time from it anyway.... or I am I missing something?

This just makes me wish I tried a bit harder to get a 27.01 when they were released.... that's probably my favourite so far. Maybe I should just keep saving up for the chrono.....


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

atvar said:


> As always with Ming, I like the design, but I don't really see the point of independently adjustable hour hands and a hacking movement, to be honest. The watch has no minute indices and no second hand, so I wouldn't be able to read a precise time from it anyway.... or I am I missing something?
> 
> This just makes me wish I tried a bit harder to get a 27.01 when they were released.... that's probably my favourite so far. Maybe I should just keep saving up for the chrono.....


Valid points, but I see the independently adjustable hour hand as an extra, not as a primary attractor to this watch. I had it on my Globemaster and I can attest to it's convenience while traveling. Sure the hacking movement is less relevant in this case since it lacks a seconds hand, but to rework a Sellita SW330-1 to remove the hacking just because it doesn't fit with the design concept is quite excessive. And I for one welcome the SW3XX movement with open arms!


----------



## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I am just starting to experiment with photography, so not sure what do you mean by resampling algorithm (will read up on it though). My comment was meant to highlight that in real-life situations, the dial will look flatter than expected due to the fine texture collapsing and looking flat.


Check out the first video here, specifically around the 1:05 minute mark. See how there's a Resample option with a dropdown for the algorithm used? (It defaults to Automatic.) That's what you'll be looking for.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

CydeWeys said:


> Check out the first video here, specifically around the 1:05 minute mark. See how there's a Resample option with a dropdown for the algorithm used? (It defaults to Automatic.) That's what you'll be looking for.


I see. Thank you, this helps a lot!


----------



## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

Just to reiterate you don’t have to subscribe to preorder?


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Jason Bourne said:


> Just to reiterate you don't have to subscribe to preorder?


No, subscription is not required.


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Overall, I am not sure this is an improvement over 17.06. Ming has stated he will only raise prices if the improvements justify them. While I do feel that there are some improvements to this reference, it mostly feels like a side-grade rather than an upgrade. The "exclusive" movement is basically a Sellita with jumping hour hands, which is ok.


I like the colours and the fact that they didn't at least spoil the overall realease by doing something unnecessary (I am stil under influence of so called new realeses from Rolex  ) is a good thing. But I agree that there isn't much improvement over the 17.06 and there is around 60% price hike. Also 17.06 copper was limited . Having said that I still like them.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yadel said:


> I like the colours and the fact that they didn't at least spoil the overall realease by doing something unnecessary (I am stil under influence of so called new realeses from Rolex  ) is a good thing. But I agree that there isn't much improvement over the 17.06 but there is around 60% price hike. Also 17.06 copper was limited . Having said that I still like them.


Yeah, my sentiment exactly. I will still order one, ofc. Still beating myself for passing on the 27.02. Which one for you, Blue and Burgundy, and why? I am just trying to decide and need some outside perspective to nudge me one way or another


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Oh and btw. Asking those who ordered before, which payment option is more reliable? Should I use CC or CC through PayPal? I read on one of the older Ming blog posts that they use PxPay for checkout, which uses 3D Secure. As far as I am aware, BoA, Chase, and a bunch of other banks don't use 3D Secure.


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Oh and btw. Asking those who ordered before, which payment option is more reliable? Should I use CC or CC through PayPal? I read on one of the older Ming blog posts that they use PxPay for checkout, which uses 3D Secure. As far as I am aware, BoA, Chase, and a bunch of other banks don't use 3D Secure.


From my understanding PP is not an option anymore. You'll need to chance it via VISA or Mastercard.


----------



## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

So I read the W&W article just now and the second batch will be delivered in 2022? The first order is for existing customers? If that’s the case I’ll have to pass on this.


----------



## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Valid points, but I see the independently adjustable hour hand as an extra, not as a primary attractor to this watch. I had it on my Globemaster and I can attest to it's convenience while traveling. Sure the hacking movement is less relevant in this case since it lacks a seconds hand, but to rework a Sellita SW330-1 to remove the hacking just because it doesn't fit with the design concept is quite excessive. And I for one welcome the SW3XX movement with open arms!


Yes, it's certainly not a negative point, I have no issues with either feature! But it seems a bit like features for the sake of features, rather than something truly striking... 
I do want to pick up a Ming watch one day, but I think this one isn't quite what I'm looking for. Fortunately Ming models evolve quickly, so maybe next year's will be the right one for me... 
Best of luck for those hoping to buy this one!


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Oh and btw. Asking those who ordered before, which payment option is more reliable? Should I use CC or CC through PayPal? I read on one of the older Ming blog posts that they use PxPay for checkout, which uses 3D Secure. As far as I am aware, BoA, Chase, and a bunch of other banks don't use 3D Secure.


CC worked fine for me when I was ordering. Maybe you should give your bank a call to let them know that there will be certain purchase that you are planning on that day.

For colours as the saying goes you can't argue people's taste on colours but these would be my reasonings;
if you have too many blue watches, burgundy might be a better addition to have a variety
Burgundy (from the pics) seems like darker and muted then the paintings suggested, might not look as vibrant as blue so if you like vibrant then it is blue.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yadel said:


> CC worked fine for me when I was ordering. Maybe you should give your bank a call to let them know that there will be certain purchase that you are planning on that day.
> 
> For colours as the saying goes you can't argue people's taste on colours but these would be my reasonings;
> if you have too many blue watches, burgundy might be a better addition to have a variety
> Burgundy (from the pics) seems like darker and muted then the paintings suggested, might not look as vibrant as blue so if you like vibrant then it is blue.


Yeah, I have a blue watch (and 2 more blue in the pipeline), so leaning towards burgundy. The blue looks much more vibrant though (which might enhance the dynamic nature of the dial). Would have been so great if emerald green was an option though.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Surprised nobody mentioned the strap options yet. What's the consensus - Calf + Alcantara lining or Alcantara + rubber lining (bonus matching blue stitches)?


----------



## LosAngelesTimer (Aug 24, 2017)

BRN said:


> I want to dislike those lugs but they just work so well as a whole package.
> This is not a watch for me but I can appreciate what Ming is doing with their releases.


The lugs are the feature that have held me back from pursuing a Ming. That and the annoying feeding frenzy of too few watches spread out amongst too many would-be buyers.

I know the lugs are part of what make a Ming a Ming but I can't get past them. Perhaps I'd find them attractive in the metal...


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

LosAngelesTimer said:


> The lugs are the feature that have held me back from pursuing a Ming. That and the annoying feeding frenzy of too few watches spread out amongst too many would-be buyers.
> 
> I know the lugs are part of what make a Ming a Ming but I can't get past them. Perhaps I'd find them attractive in the metal...


On the 17, they're very subtle and you don't really notice them at all. I highly recommend giving them a chance if the rest of the watch is appealing to you. But then again, I think they look very cool, so I might just be less sensitive to it.


----------



## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

Jason Bourne said:


> So I read the W&W article just now and the second batch will be delivered in 2022? The first order is for existing customers? If that's the case I'll have to pass on this.


Batch 2 (150 of each color) is open to everyone and deliveries begin October 2021.

Batch 3 is the 10 minute time limited batch and deliveries begin March 2022. Due to the longer wait time Batch 3 requires only a 50% deposit rather than 100%.


----------



## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

brianinCA said:


> Batch 2 (150 of each color) is open to everyone and deliveries begin October 2021.
> 
> Batch 3 is the 10 minute time limited batch and deliveries begin March 2022. Due to the longer wait time Batch 3 requires only a 50% deposit rather than 100%.


Thank you for the helpful info. Ugh 100% payment up front. I mean I guess it doesn't matter whether it's 50% or 100%. Psychologically putting 100% makes me think twice lol.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Yeah I'm not sure what the benefit is here with the independently adjustable hour hand. I think it's a great feature in the GS 9F85 movement because you can maintain the accuracy of your watch setting when you change time zones, like in the SBGP015. But if you don't have a seconds hand or minute track then your watch isn't that accurate anyway.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

conrad227 said:


> Yeah I'm not sure what the benefit is here with the independently adjustable hour hand. I think it's a great feature in the GS 9F85 movement because you can maintain the accuracy of your watch setting when you change time zones, like in the SBGP015. But if you don't have a seconds hand or minute track then your watch isn't that accurate anyway.


Since there are no defined minute markers other than those every 5 minutes, it would be useful to jump the hour when moving timezones without having to wait for the next 5 minute interval to accurately set your watch.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Surprised nobody mentioned the strap options yet. What's the consensus - Calf + Alcantara lining or Alcantara + rubber lining (bonus matching blue stitches)?


Alcantara + rubber for me, mostly because I like black straps better than light colored ones. In this case the strap helps sway me towards the blue dial since this watch only takes curved end straps and I would have to buy a new strap if I went with the burgundy dial.

I do wish the blue wasn't quite so vibrant, but from the photos it seems that it will appear different depending on the light.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Jason Bourne said:


> So I read the W&W article just now and the second batch will be delivered in 2022? The first order is for existing customers? If that's the case I'll have to pass on this.


There will be 3 ordering windows. First one: for prior purchasers only. Second one: to the public. IIRC there will be 150 of each. First come, first served on both days. These will be fulfilled first. Both will, unfortunately, be swamped...initial email even advised discussing overseas payment with your credit card provider in advance, so it goes through. You probably won't get a chance to confirm and resubmit; they'll be gone before you can do that.

Third ordering window is for the second batch, and yes, I believe it's for a 2022 release.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

conrad227 said:


> Yeah I'm not sure what the benefit is here with the independently adjustable hour hand. I think it's a great feature in the GS 9F85 movement because you can maintain the accuracy of your watch setting when you change time zones, like in the SBGP015. But if you don't have a seconds hand or minute track then your watch isn't that accurate anyway.


If it's only for DST...not a lot. For a traveler's daily wearer, it'd be a nice convenience. And figure, that crown position is usually for setting the date...which is pointless here. So it's giving something that can be useful, rather than something that would have no value at all.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

gangrel said:


> If it's only for DST...not a lot. For a traveler's daily wearer, it'd be a nice convenience. And figure, that crown position is usually for setting the date...which is pointless here. So it's giving something that can be useful, rather than something that would have no value at all.


True, but I also like what Ming did with previous references, where there is only one crown position. Makes it simpler, which fits the aesthetics and identity of the 17.xx more I think.


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## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

I can’t decide if I’ll try to order or not. I have the 27.01 and this is somewhat similar. I’m wondering if they would be to similar to have those two in my collection. It’s a tough one to think thru.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

thewatchidiot said:


> I can't decide if I'll try to order or not. I have the 27.01 and this is somewhat similar. I'm wondering if they would be to similar to have those two in my collection. It's a tough one to think thru.


I have a 17.01 gray and a 17.06 copper...but copper is such a distinctive color that IMO the question doesn't arise that much. IIRC, tho, that was the deciding factor between the copper and the dark black...which I think is closer to a pure GADA.

With those 2, tho, yeah, I'm in the same boat. I'm leaning towards passing on that basis.


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## noregrets (Nov 21, 2014)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Oh and btw. Asking those who ordered before, which payment option is more reliable? Should I use CC or CC through PayPal? I read on one of the older Ming blog posts that they use PxPay for checkout, which uses 3D Secure. As far as I am aware, BoA, Chase, and a bunch of other banks don't use 3D Secure.


I used a Visa for the 27.01, and it initially declined but after I responded to the text message from my bank it went through the second time.

The payment page was set up so that you had time to send the transaction through again if it was initially declined by your bank, without losing your reservation and place in line. Best to pre-authorize with your bank but not a dealbreaker.


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## LAWatchGuy20 (Aug 12, 2020)

How does one even purchase one of these beauties?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

LAWatchGuy20 said:


> How does one even purchase one of these beauties?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


?????


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

LAWatchGuy20 said:


> How does one even purchase one of these beauties?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And quick hands ?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

thewatchidiot said:


> I can't decide if I'll try to order or not. I have the 27.01 and this is somewhat similar. I'm wondering if they would be to similar to have those two in my collection. It's a tough one to think thru.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





gangrel said:


> I have a 17.01 gray and a 17.06 copper...but copper is such a distinctive color that IMO the question doesn't arise that much. IIRC, tho, that was the deciding factor between the copper and the dark black...which I think is closer to a pure GADA.
> 
> With those 2, tho, yeah, I'm in the same boat. I'm leaning towards passing on that basis.


I missed out on the 27.01 and 27.02 (didn't look at how it is different from the 17.xx series enough, and thought it was overpriced). But honestly, if I had a 27.xx, I would have passed on this one. Seems like a downgrade to me from 27.01. Sure, this has a cool Clous de Paris pattern, but it is stamped, so not that special if you already have other Mings.


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## Mtnmansa (Jun 29, 2017)

my 17.01, #149/150.
I'm going to be going for the burgundy 17.09.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

LAWatchGuy20 said:


> How does one even purchase one of these beauties?


Ming will open the first order window Thursday, for the general public. There will be 150 of each available...first come, first served. (And MIng clarifies: the order's defined by payment acceptance. If your card issuer wants confirmation? Ming's not holding a watch for you.)

Those will last no more than a few minutes. Literally. So there's a random aspect...can you connect to the site, how fast are you getting page loads (because they're getting hammered). Ming knows this. So there will be one more ordering window...I forget the date...where Ming will open up the ordering window for 10 minutes. Anyone who completes the order form and gets the payment confirmed, is promised a watch. It will take longer; they're not a big outfit. IIRC the first batches are Q4 2021, so if there's a LOT of these ordered in this window...figure the first orders (from this unlimited window) will probably be Q1 2022, and the last may well extend into late Q2 or even Q3 2022.

I'm still making up my mind. Do I want one? Secondary...if I do, which one? Cuz for me, the order window will be tomorrow (the advance window for Ming's existing customers)...and it opens at 7 AM my time. I generally Don't Do Mornings, so I have to plan on doing this, and setting an alarm, before I sleep.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Mtnmansa said:


> View attachment 15825300
> 
> my 17.01, #149/150.
> I'm going to be going for the burgundy 17.09.


Actually, this makes me wonder. Will this edition be numbered? Cause of the "unlimited" nature it might not be?


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Actually, this makes me wonder. Will this edition be numbered? Cause of the "unlimited" nature it might not be?


It's limited. What the number of each will be, we don't know...but they will on Friday, which is when the 10 minute window happens. Once that window closes...and with however many they plan to make for internal purposes...that's it. From Ming:


Once this ten minute period expires, we will not take any further orders. These variants of the 17.09 will be _discontinued and not produced again_


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Advance window for existing buyers lasted less than 3 minutes.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

gangrel said:


> Advance window for existing buyers lasted less than 3 minutes.


Less than 30 seconds from what I observed


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Less than 30 seconds from what I observed


Hoping the website doesn't crash during the 10 min ordering window this Friday so that I can successfully submit my order. Will be my first independent watch if my order goes through.


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## nkwatchy (Feb 23, 2011)

Had a blue in the cart, entered my credit card OTP and... Insufficient funds. By the time I clicked out it was already sold out. Rookie error not checking the card balance! Self-selection. 

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

No, it lasted at least 90 seconds; that's about when I got through everything and submitted the order for credit card authorization. To have it declined for fraud check reasons. (Which they did suggest, you contact your bank first so this didn't happen.) By the time I could say, yes, this is a legit transaction...gone.

Getting onto the site this morning actually went quite well. Order page loaded fine. The usual process of entering shipping and payment stuff went fine, page to page, with no real lag, so the web site didn't show me any indication of being overloaded. That said, tomorrow will be worse, most likely, and Friday may be a zoo. Obviously, with the window only being 10 minutes, you can't wait in the first place, but I'd definitely say, jump on their ordering link just as it opens, to allow for lag.


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

gangrel said:


> That said, tomorrow will be worse, most likely, and Friday may be a zoo. Obviously, with the window only being 10 minutes, you can't wait in the first place, but I'd definitely say, jump on their ordering link just as it opens, to allow for lag.


Hopefully they are hosted on some service (like AWS) where they can just scale the servers to some crazy number for the 10 minutes.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

gangrel said:


> No, it lasted at least 90 seconds; that's about when I got through everything and submitted the order for credit card authorization. To have it declined for fraud check reasons. (Which they did suggest, you contact your bank first so this didn't happen.) By the time I could say, yes, this is a legit transaction...gone.
> 
> Getting onto the site this morning actually went quite well. Order page loaded fine. The usual process of entering shipping and payment stuff went fine, page to page, with no real lag, so the web site didn't show me any indication of being overloaded. That said, tomorrow will be worse, most likely, and Friday may be a zoo. Obviously, with the window only being 10 minutes, you can't wait in the first place, but I'd definitely say, jump on their ordering link just as it opens, to allow for lag.


Called my bank to notify them of an upcoming purchase, was told by an automated system that I don't need to notify them. Kind of worried...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Hoping the website doesn't crash during the 10 min ordering window this Friday so that I can successfully submit my order. Will be my first independent watch if my order goes through.


I wouldn't worry. I think MING has played this game enough times to know what kind of bandwidth their system needs for that order.

Anyone taking bets for the 10 minute window? I'm thinking 1000-1250 orders.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Called my bank to notify them of an upcoming purchase, was told by an automated system that I don't need to notify them. Kind of worried...


My bank was the same.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I wouldn't worry. I think MING has played this game enough times to know what kind of bandwidth their system needs for that order.
> 
> Anyone taking bets for the 10 minute window? I'm thinking 1000-1250 orders.


I would bet closer to 2000. But if that is true, this release will nearly double the amount of Mings in existence.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> My bank was the same.


Did you get one? If so, which color?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I would bet closer to 2000. But if that is true, this release will nearly double the amount of Mings in existence.


You may be right. I was thinking 2000+ too initially, based on Kurono's mention of having 7500 people in queue for one their previous releases. I suspect it's a similar (perhaps larger?) crowd for MING, but fewer folks looking to to just flip this.



RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Did you get one? If so, which color?


I got blue. I went in ready to pick up the Burgundy, but my 'blue watch mania' kicked in at the last moment.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Fingers crossed for tomorrow. Called my cardholder and let them know either tomorrow or Friday to expect a 1950 chf purchase but we’ll see...


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> You may be right. I was thinking 2000+ too initially, based on Kurono's mention of having 7500 people in queue for one their previous releases. I suspect it's a similar (perhaps larger?) crowd for MING, but fewer folks looking to to just flip this.
> 
> I got blue. I went in ready to pick up the Burgundy, but my 'blue watch mania' kicked in at the last moment.


7500 for a Kurono? Must be the Mori. But I don't think we will see similar numbers for Ming, as I assume it will take them years to deliver that many.

I am leaning towards Burgundy, as it may be the only red watch I will have in my collection, but will have to keep my "blue watch mania" in check haha. I expect a review on your website soon, love your reviews!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> 7500 for a Kurono? Must be the Mori. But I don't think we will see similar numbers for Ming, as I assume it will take them years to deliver that many.
> 
> I am leaning towards Burgundy, as it may be the only red watch I will have in my collection, but will have to keep my "blue watch mania" in check haha. I expect a review on your website soon, love your reviews!


It was the Chronograph 2 actually!

__
http://instagr.am/p/CLhM2SELn0S/



> We would like to report on the global sale performance of the Chronograph 2.
> 
> At its peak, we had 7,612 in queue. All transactions were completed in 3.5 minutes. The top 5 countries representing a large majority of transactions were the US, Singapore, United Kingdom, United Arab Emirates, and Hong Kong.


Please get the Burgundy and do what I couldn't do 

Thanks for the kind words, and if I'm still doing reviews when it arrives, you can most certainly expect one!


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I wouldn't worry. I think MING has played this game enough times to know what kind of bandwidth their system needs for that order.
> 
> Anyone taking bets for the 10 minute window? I'm thinking 1000-1250 orders.


I'll say between 2250 and 2500


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## csong91 (Dec 15, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> Fingers crossed for tomorrow. Called my cardholder and let them know either tomorrow or Friday to expect a 1950 chf purchase but we'll see...


Same here! Wishing us the best of luck along with anyone else on the thread (as long as they're not buying it just to flip it).


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

I'm thinking a little lower because the price point is higher than prior 17s. I'll say 1500. And yeah, even that number will probably take most of 2022 to fulfill, I suspect.


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## LAWatchGuy20 (Aug 12, 2020)

It has a year wait time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

LAWatchGuy20 said:


> It has a year wait time?


They're saying that the watches ordered Friday will start being delivered in March 2022, yes. That said: they're only requiring a 50% deposit on these.

MIng is a VERY small company and they don't cut corners, so their production numbers aren't high at all. So...yes, a year's wait. Welcome to the world of artisanal, rather than industrial, watchmaking; this is not particularly unusual.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

gangrel said:


> They're saying that the watches ordered Friday will start being delivered in March 2022, yes. That said: they're only requiring a 50% deposit on these.
> 
> MIng is a VERY small company and they don't cut corners, so their production numbers aren't high at all. So...yes, a year's wait. Welcome to the world of artisanal, rather than industrial, watchmaking; this is not particularly unusual.


While Ming is indeed a very small company putting out high-quality products, I wouldn't describe them as artisanal though. It seems they do design work and work with different suppliers to fulfill the orders. I am not sure Ming do a lot of work themselves. Therefore, I think the bottleneck here is more on their supplier side. What you are getting is a well-designed piece industrially produced by some of the best suppliers in the industry with a 250 hours Ming QC. This is specifically about the 17.09. Some Mings do have elements of artisanal work, like hand beveling.

TLDR: Not artisanal, but high quality nonetheless. I like and respect what Ming does, but I think it is worth distinguishing true artisans (Dufour, Asaoka) from design-centric independents (Ming, Kurono). Otherwise, it's the old "each Rolex is handcrafted in the Swiss mountains" trope again.


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## August West (Aug 24, 2020)

I got fraud protected on the 18.01 and missed out, the 19.05 was a wire so I was good there, and had my card rep on the phone as I ordered the burgundy this morning- wasn’t taking the chance


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Jason Bourne said:


> So I read the W&W article just now and the second batch will be delivered in 2022? The first order is for existing customers? If that's the case I'll have to pass on this.


You could put $2000 into Bitcoin now, watch it triple, then buy the watch from a flipper in a year for +50% mark up and keep the $3000 profit. Bitcoin is up 6x since the 18.01 went on sale and you can buy those on the second hand market for 1.5-2x the original price.


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## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

So to confirm 9AM EST is for non existing customer that’ll be delivered in October?


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## adk225 (Feb 29, 2020)

That went pretty fast... got a burgundy, yay!


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## vexXed (Sep 15, 2015)

Wow that was fast.... I think around a minute?


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

holy smokes I got the blue. I can't believe it...I pulled up a GMT clock so I was in on the dot.


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## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

This is horse crap. I kept refreshing and it shows 4 in shopping cart but then says nothing.


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

yellowfury said:


> holy smokes I got the blue. I can't believe it...I pulled up a GMT clock so I was in on the dot.


Same! Felt like I was doing an ordering speed run. Didn't even stop to double check that all the details were right, just ran through the forms as quickly as possible. Even had to do an SMS OTP with my credit card issuer.


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

Woah - what a trip! My adrenaline was pumping!

Picked up a burgundy. I'm really excited about this release in particular. My single favorite feature in a watch is a quick-set hour hand for travel. Can't wait to receive it and start traveling with it!

Congrats to others that picked this one up.


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## csong91 (Dec 15, 2020)

Got the Burgundy! Went back and forth between the blue and burgundy but I ultimately went with the burgundy because I prefer the muted tone.

Edit: Congrats to others who were able to pick it up!


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## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

I’m so ****ing pissed. I literally hit refresh until it showed then hit add to cart but it said cart is empty.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

CydeWeys said:


> Same! Felt like I was doing an ordering speed run. Didn't even stop to double check that all the details were right, just ran through the forms as quickly as possible. Even had to do an SMS OTP with my credit card issuer.


Yeah I thought i screwed myself cuz I ordered off my phone instead of my browser (which has my address on autofill). I'm just glad to get this monkey off my back. Limited or non-limited stock be damned, I just wanted a Ming. Now I just need to get a hold of this year's time-limited kurono anniversary and a minase divido and I'll have completed my personal trinity of asian microbrands.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Jason Bourne said:


> I'm so ****ing pissed. I literally hit refresh until it showed then hit add to cart but it said cart is empty.


are you able to wait until the time-limited delivery for next year? That was always going to be the main option.


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## kakefe (Feb 16, 2014)

while waiting in a Q for payment it became sold out... 

my first and last experience from ming..so bye ming... 

congrats to the successful buyers....


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## nkwatchy (Feb 23, 2011)

Got a Blue! Should go well with my 17.06 Copper 

Took just over 1 min all up, including the OTP SMS. 

Immediately clicked the link again for interest and sure enough, all gone.

I'll be fascinated to see how many get sold during the time limited window tomorrow. 300 in 1 minute must mean more then 3,000 tomorrow right? Haha 

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## nkwatchy (Feb 23, 2011)

Jason Bourne said:


> I'm so ****ing pissed. I literally hit refresh until it showed then hit add to cart but it said cart is empty.


Ming warned everyone about doing that. Can stuff up the caching in your browser.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

yellowfury said:


> are you able to wait until the time-limited delivery for next year? That was always going to be the main option.


i prefer not to wait a year.I'm done with the brand.


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

Jason Bourne said:


> i prefer not to wait a year.I'm done with the brand.


I don't blame you. Frustrating purchasing experiences turn many people off. I'll grin and bear it for something I really want (like this), but there's few other watch brands I'd do it for.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

In for a blue. My credit card company did SMS 2 factor and I was worried I missed the window but luckily everything went through. Phew.

I was also debating whether to go for the burgundy but the strap pairing on the blue was awesome.


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

Couldn't believe how quick they went. Still on the fence about getting one tomorrow, not sure I have the patience to wait 12 months for it though

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## vexXed (Sep 15, 2015)

Jason Bourne said:


> I'm so ****ing pissed. I literally hit refresh until it showed then hit add to cart but it said cart is empty.


I kept hitting refresh and once it appeared (a little bit late at around 9:01 pm Hong Kong time) I added a blue to the cart but then I was placed in a queue.

It didn't even get to the payment details page - they were all sold out after being in the queue.



kakefe said:


> while waiting in a Q for payment it became sold out...
> 
> my first and last experience from ming..so bye ming...
> 
> congrats to the successful buyers....


Exact same thing happened to me.

I told my sister about it just before it went live. She casually looked it up and managed to get to the payment details page without even hitting F5... hahaha... lucky.

If you still want it you can try the 10 minute window tomorrow at the same time, but you'd need to wait a year for the delivery.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

Jason Bourne said:


> i prefer not to wait a year.I'm done with the brand.


People who ordered today will be waiting 6 months. Sounds worth it to me to wait an additional 6 months for something you're that upset about missing out on, but up to you.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Mini rant, I too failed to make a purchase due to the Credit Card being denied.

I made it into the que and was checking out. Filled out all my shipping info etc automatically, got to the credit card authorizing step and it gave me a few options to receive a verification code.

I got the code and copy/pasted it in (this all happened in like 12 seconds), and then my transaction was still denied.

So, like, what is the point of having the verification code if the transaction will be blocked anyway >:|

I called my credit card company after and confirmed they thought the transaction was fishy and flagged it. I told them I'll be making a similar transaction tomorrow (for the time limited window) and asked them to make sure it will go through without any hiccups. The guy on the phone told me it is automatic, and although they unlocked my account now, they can't guarantee it won't be blocked again tomorrow....................... >:|


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Got the Burgundy!


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## ms55 (Jan 31, 2017)

Got the blue! Really looking forward to seeing it in the flesh


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Mini rant, I too failed to make a purchase due to the Credit Card being denied.
> 
> I made it into the que and was checking out. Filled out all my shipping info etc automatically, got to the credit card authorizing step and it gave me a few options to receive a verification code.
> 
> ...


That's frustrating. But with 10 mins, you should be able to get one tomorrow


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

MrBlahBlah said:


> In for a blue. My credit card company did SMS 2 factor and I was worried I missed the window but luckily everything went through. Phew.
> 
> I was also debating whether to go for the burgundy but the strap pairing on the blue was awesome.


Same thing. I was worried the SMS OTP was gonna screw me over. Better that than an outright decline at least. And I still got the blue!


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

In for the blue version. Hadn't really had much experience at all with the brand so I figured I'd try it out.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

I decided to try my luck earlier (though I was initially set on only trying tomorrow) because of the opportunity to get the watch early if I were successful. Didn’t get the blue. Whole experience made me feel like I was a contestant in a 100m sprint haha.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Congratulations to everyone that managed to get one today! I'm glad to see so many folks get the Burgundy. My addiction to blue watches prevented me from getting one, but at least I can live vicariously through your purchases.


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## csong91 (Dec 15, 2020)

I see that people are angrily posting on Ming Watch IG saying that bots took all the stock. However, based on some of our experiences it appears that they were bought by real people and there was just a large demand.

Although I understand their frustration, I don’t like that they are making these accusations without any evidence.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

csong91 said:


> I see that people are angrily posting on Ming Watch IG saying that bots took all the stock. However, based on some of our experiences it appears that they were bought by real people and there was just a large demand.
> 
> Although I understand their frustration, I don't like that they are making these accusations without any evidence.


That's pretty much what happens after any highly desirable watch sells out instantly. Yesterday's private release (existing customers) of 150 pcs sold out in less than 30 seconds, and I'm pretty sure no bots were involved. So its no surprise that a batch of 300 pcs sold out instantly once opened to the public.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Jason Bourne said:


> i prefer not to wait a year.I'm done with the brand.


That's valid. There are tons of other things to buy that don't require a wait.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> In for a blue. My credit card company did SMS 2 factor and I was worried I missed the window but luckily everything went through. Phew.
> 
> I was also debating whether to go for the burgundy but the strap pairing on the blue was awesome.


The strap on the blue looks excellent...but unwearable for me due to my wrist size (they said up to 8.3 but I'm at 8.5) I'm gonna grab a bracelet or custom strap once it comes in.


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

yellowfury said:


> That's valid. There are tons of other things to buy that don't require a wait.


Like Rolex ?

It's interesting to contrast the two approaches. With Ming, you pay now and then get the watch on some definite time frame in the future. With Rolex, you don't pay now, and you also don't get the watch until some indefinite time in the future if ever. You may not even ever get said watch; if you merely want a Sub or something you'll probably get it, but if you want a Daytona or something, you probably won't ever get it (my AD flat out isn't even accepting names for a list for the most desirable models). With Ming, once you pay, the order is locked in and you _are_ gonna get it.

I think I prefer the Ming approach more.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

CydeWeys said:


> Like Rolex 😄
> 
> It's interesting to contrast the two approaches. With Ming, you pay now and then get the watch on some definite time frame in the future. With Rolex, you don't pay now, and you also don't get the watch until some indefinite time in the future if ever. You may not even ever get said watch; if you merely want a Sub or something you'll probably get it, but if you want a Daytona or something, you probably won't ever get it (my AD flat out isn't even accepting names for a list for the most desirable models). With Ming, once you pay, the order is locked in and you _are_ gonna get it.
> 
> I think I prefer the Ming approach more.


I agree, but I also understand why some people are not comfortable with paying now and only receiving a watch a year later. The consumer culture has been focused on "I want it and I want it now!" for too long.


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I agree, but I also understand why some people are not comfortable with paying now and only receiving a watch a year later. The consumer culture has been focused on "I want it and I want it now!" for too long.


It's definitely taking a risk, in multiple ways. Something could happen to Ming, and you never get your money back or a watch. And you have your money tied up for a year, which is not good in the event that your financial situation changes and you suddenly find yourself in need of money. With watches you buy and get immediately there's no problem, as you can simply sell them and get most of your money back, but if your money is still tied up in a nonrefundable order that isn't shipping for awhile, good luck.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Blue incoming!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I agree, but I also understand why some people are not comfortable with paying now and only receiving a watch a year later. The consumer culture has been focused on "I want it and I want it now!" for too long.


I'm one of those people getting tired of putting my money down for microbrands, waiting 6 months and then receiving a watch that I may or may not like. Then I have to sell it, and it takes a 20-30% hit on price. So I technically invested in the company's production costs, got a mediocre watch, and lost a bunch of money while at it 

I'm more comfortable doing this with Ming though, because I'm familiar with their quality having owned two watches, and my gut tells me that my money is safer with them than 99% of microbrands out there on Kickstarter/Indiegogo/Preorder campaigns, who are trying to take my money to mitigate an investment risk that they should be taking instead of me.


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## adk225 (Feb 29, 2020)

CydeWeys said:


> Like Rolex 😄
> 
> It's interesting to contrast the two approaches. With Ming, you pay now and then get the watch on some definite time frame in the future. With Rolex, you don't pay now, and you also don't get the watch until some indefinite time in the future if ever. You may not even ever get said watch; if you merely want a Sub or something you'll probably get it, but if you want a Daytona or something, you probably won't ever get it (my AD flat out isn't even accepting names for a list for the most desirable models). With Ming, once you pay, the order is locked in and you _are_ gonna get it.
> 
> I think I prefer the Ming approach more.


+1. Ming first gave an opportunity to the loyal (aka preferred) customers to buy the watch yesterday, and then it's free for all, assuming you can checkout fast enough. Seems like a very reasonable approach to me. That being said, the interest in Ming is significantly lower than Rolex, and the number of watches we're talking about are in the hundreds to low thousands. If a few million people tried to buy 100,000 watches during an online launch, it would have been a very different experience... If Ming keeps making watches and the customer base keeps growing, it will be interesting to see how they will handle new releases in the future.

As for paying now and waiting, agree it's a risk, albeit very small. Any worthwhile credit card will allow a chargeback in the unlikely scenario of Ming going under in the next 6-12 months and not returning the money.


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> I'm one of those people getting tired of putting my money down for microbrands, waiting 6 months and then receiving a watch that I may or may not like. Then I have to sell it, and it takes a 20-30% hit on price. So I technically invested in the company's production costs, got a mediocre watch, and lost a bunch of money while at it
> 
> I'm more comfortable doing this with Ming though, because I'm familiar with their quality having owned two watches, and my gut tells me that my money is safer with them than 99% of microbrands out there on Kickstarter/Indiegogo/Preorder campaigns, who are trying to take my money to mitigate an investment risk that they should be taking instead of me.


Yeah, same. I don't have any interest in putting down money on a new unproven microbrand. The latest one I passed on was Furlan Marri. The production samples looked nice but there was a bunch of disclaimers about what was gonna change between those and the production run, and it all just seemed too up in the air for me.

Ming is an established proven player though. Same with Zelos. With both I don't mind putting money down now and then receiving the watch later.



adk225 said:


> As for paying now and waiting, agree it's a risk, albeit very small. Any worthwhile credit card will allow a chargeback in the unlikely scenario of Ming going under in the next 6-12 months and not returning the money.


The credit card chargeback time limit is 120 days. Past that and you're SOL.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

PuYang said:


> Mini rant, I too failed to make a purchase due to the Credit Card being denied.
> 
> I made it into the que and was checking out. Filled out all my shipping info etc automatically, got to the credit card authorizing step and it gave me a few options to receive a verification code.
> 
> ...


Been there, done that, feel your pain. On the one hand, there's convenience; on the other, security. I've had at least a couple occasions where my CC number was used fraudulently...caught in advance, I wasn't charged, the charge was denied, so I get the importance of doing it. BUT it can be a royal pain too.

My card sends me a notice asking for confirmation. Tried that yesterday but, well, wasn't really awake and brain didn't context-switch quite fast enough...so I missed. Still considering if I'll try tomorrow; I tend to think so. May well go for the burgundy; as noted, it's a nice, subtle color. Also a fairly uncommon one. What I don't like is the strap for that one, but finding a curved-end strap isn't that bad.

One advantage for tomorrow, too: they're only asking for 50% payment. So, yeah, it'll be tied up longer but not _all_ of the cost. And having backed several KS watches (with good results)...the year-long wait is more tolerable for me.


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## adk225 (Feb 29, 2020)

CydeWeys said:


> The credit card chargeback time limit is 120 days. Past that and you're SOL.


Didn't know that.. Can't speak for other cards as my only experience with a chargeback was with Amex, and they don't have a 120 day limit for goods/services not received. Ming doesn't accept Amex so it's a moot point I guess


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## hurleyfan (Mar 3, 2009)

I was lucky enough to secure a blue yesterday morning, during the priory access period for existing customers. I’m really excited about this one. I actually was hoping I wouldn’t like the release, but I love the design of this one, and I am also a sucker for blue.

There are definitely a lot of salty folks on IG, and it is really crazy how much of a frenzy these things create. It is interesting to see the different approaches taken by brands like Ming and Kurono, but sadly, the only conclusion I have drawn is it is impossible not to piss off a lot of people.

I totally get the frustration, but I am not sure what else can be done. I actually think offering a time limited window, which both brands will be doing, is really generous and client friendly. These are small companies, so I imagine it is going to be very difficult to meet the production demand. This allows everyone who wants one to get one, but you just have to wait. Seems pretty fair to me, and I would have gladly taken this option had I missed out yesterday and today.

I am really curious what the final numbers will look like after the time limited release tomorrow. I hope everyone who wants one gets one!


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## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

Well I tried. 9am went on. Was on a cue, and then at 9:01 it said it was sold out. 

Wow 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I'm having some FOMO on not getting the burgundy. I like how it's different and subtle. Blue is overdone, but, what can I say, I love blue. The real issue with the burgundy for me is that I really don't like the strap it comes on. Not a huge deal, but I don't want to plunk down a few hundred extra $$ for a new strap just to bring it up to par. They should have mirrored the blue dial - black alcantara with burgundy stitching. That would have been enough for me to sway over to burgundy.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

gangrel said:


> Been there, done that, feel your pain. On the one hand, there's convenience; on the other, security. I've had at least a couple occasions where my CC number was used fraudulently...caught in advance, I wasn't charged, the charge was denied, so I get the importance of doing it. BUT it can be a royal pain too.
> 
> My card sends me a notice asking for confirmation. Tried that yesterday but, well, wasn't really awake and brain didn't context-switch quite fast enough...so I missed. Still considering if I'll try tomorrow; I tend to think so. May well go for the burgundy; as noted, it's a nice, subtle color. Also a fairly uncommon one. What I don't like is the strap for that one, but finding a curved-end strap isn't that bad.
> 
> One advantage for tomorrow, too: they're only asking for 50% payment. So, yeah, it'll be tied up longer but not _all_ of the cost. And having backed several KS watches (with good results)...the year-long wait is more tolerable for me.


I know and understand the importance of security. I don't mind that at all. What urked me a bit was the fact that their system sent me a verification code BUT STILL automatically denied the transaction afterwards. Making the whole verification thing redundant xD

This was the very first time I ever had to even verify a purchase before, and I've done other purchases roughly in this price range online too. Although this was the first time my CC was ever charged an asian currency (sorry I forget which exact currency it was. Whatever Malaysia uses I guess )

Also based on my conversation with my CC company, the whole 'call them before hand to alert them of the purchase' doesn't work. I might end up doing what someone else in this thread did, which is to call them and have them waiting on the line WHILE I make the purchase.

The thing I'm worried about is the 10 minute window might not be long enough for me to do this whole thing. I am planning to call them a few minutes before the sale opens, have them WAIT on the line with me until the window is open... Feel bad for having to inconvenience someone else though just for my first world problems xD


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I'm having some FOMO on not getting the burgundy. I like how it's different and subtle. Blue is overdone, but, what can I say, I love blue. The real issue with the burgundy for me is that I really don't like the strap it comes on. Not a huge deal, but I don't want to plunk down a few hundred extra $$ for a new strap just to bring it up to par. They should have mirrored the blue dial - black alcantara with burgundy stitching. That would have been enough for me to sway over to burgundy.


I think blue was meant to look more sporty, while Burgundy more dressy. That's why Burgundy came with a calf strap with Alcantara lining. I am definitely getting another strap though (probably black or brown Alcantara with red stitching, rubber lining)


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

PuYang said:


> I know and understand the importance of security. I don't mind that at all. What urked me a bit was the fact that their system sent me a verification code BUT STILL automatically denied the transaction afterwards. Making the whole verification thing redundant xD
> 
> This was the very first time I ever had to even verify a purchase before, and I've done other purchases roughly in this price range online too. Although this was the first time my CC was ever charged an asian currency (sorry I forget which exact currency it was. Whatever Malaysia uses I guess )
> 
> ...


The currency is Swiss Franks actually


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

PuYang said:


> I know and understand the importance of security. I don't mind that at all. What urked me a bit was the fact that their system sent me a verification code BUT STILL automatically denied the transaction afterwards. Making the whole verification thing redundant xD
> 
> This was the very first time I ever had to even verify a purchase before, and I've done other purchases roughly in this price range online too. Although this was the first time my CC was ever charged an asian currency (sorry I forget which exact currency it was. Whatever Malaysia uses I guess )
> 
> ...


I think why this is suspicious for CC companies is that a Canadian trying to buy something in Malaysia and paying in Swiss Franks haha. Yeah, definitely call them and have them stay on the line. It's their job and I am sure the CC company is making enough money for you to inconvenience them once in a while.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I'm one of those people getting tired of putting my money down for microbrands, waiting 6 months and then receiving a watch that I may or may not like. Then I have to sell it, and it takes a 20-30% hit on price. So I technically invested in the company's production costs, got a mediocre watch, and lost a bunch of money while at it
> 
> I'm more comfortable doing this with Ming though, because I'm familiar with their quality having owned two watches, and my gut tells me that my money is safer with them than 99% of microbrands out there on Kickstarter/Indiegogo/Preorder campaigns, who are trying to take my money to mitigate an investment risk that they should be taking instead of me.


Yeah, I ordered my first KS watch last month. Not familiar with affordable/microbrands, so don't know how that will turn out. The watch looked so ridiculous I just couldn't pass it up


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> The currency is Swiss Franks actually


But the charge on my credit card shows as Malaysia and is denominated in USD as far as I can tell (though maybe Citi just did the conversion already). It's confusing, that's for sure.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> The currency is Swiss Franks actually





CydeWeys said:


> But the charge on my credit card shows as Malaysia and is denominated in USD as far as I can tell (though maybe Citi just did the conversion already). It's confusing, that's for sure.


The guy on the phone said it was something else. I don't remember it, as I was still coming off the heat of frustration xD

But it was definitely not CHF or USD. It was a Chinese currency, whatever currency they use in Malaysia I assume. He quoted to me the CAD value, the foreign currency it was originally charged as, and destination/location of the charge (Malaysia).


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## timeisofthessence (Oct 23, 2009)

I like many got up to plate at 9 am, had a blue 17.09 in my cart, but when I was able to act, the cart showed Sold Out. Swing and miss. All that action by 9:01 am. 

Hoping to have a more fruitful at bat tomorrow.

Fyi I kind of prefer the burgundy but tricky as I just bought the orange/red Anordain fume and don't currently have a blue faced watch.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

PuYang said:


> The guy on the phone said it was something else. I don't remember it, as I was still coming off the heat of frustration xD
> 
> But it was definitely not CHF or USD. It was a Chinese currency, whatever currency they use in Malaysia I assume. He quoted to me the CAD value, the foreign currency it was originally charged as, and destination/location of the charge (Malaysia).


Thats weird, maybe they did prevent a concurrent fraud somehow. I am pretty sure that it should be in CHF.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

It indeed was CHF. Per Ming:
"Payment approvals and automated fraud checks are conducted by the issuing bank and not under our control. To avoid hiccups during checkout, we recommend informing your bank about the transaction in advance. *Payments are captured in Malaysia, the currency for the payment is Swiss Francs (CHF) and the entity is 'Horologer MING'.*"

Your credit card does the currency translation for you


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

So what did y'all's credit card charges end up being? On my Citi card (which has a 0% foreign transaction fee) I was charged USD 2,122.73, which is about $8 more than CHF 1,950 at the market exchange rate according to Google.


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

CydeWeys said:


> So what did y'all's credit card charges end up being? On my Citi card (which has a 0% foreign transaction fee) I was charged USD 2,122.73, which is about $8 more than CHF 1,950 at the market exchange rate according to Google.


Just checked, and exactly the same on my Citi card.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

CydeWeys said:


> So what did y'all's credit card charges end up being? On my Citi card (which has a 0% foreign transaction fee) I was charged USD 2,122.73, which is about $8 more than CHF 1,950 at the market exchange rate according to Google.


Same for me. Not Citi, but I assume FX is standardized.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Same for me. Not Citi, but I assume FX is standardized.


2124 for me with chase


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

Sounds like we all paid right around $2,123 then. Guess that was the daily market rate that they're all using.

No wonder they denominate the price in CHF -- so it appears less than 2k!


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

New joiner to the Ming brand here, I was lucky enough to get one yesterday, ultra fast fingers + a Singapore credit card did the trick for me.

I quite like the watch but I’m not entirely happy about how Ming is talking about the movement being ”specially modified“ for them, and align with the comments above about how having a jumping hour hand “complication” is close to a gimmick when there’s no seconds hand or precise minutes marker. I guess they were trying to find something special about the watch to justify one last run, but it just doesn’t feel honest to me.


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## August West (Aug 24, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Mini rant, I too failed to make a purchase due to the Credit Card being denied.
> 
> I made it into the que and was checking out. Filled out all my shipping info etc automatically, got to the credit card authorizing step and it gave me a few options to receive a verification code.
> 
> ...


Before the 18.01 release I called CC company to give them a heads up- they said they don't even fraud protect my particular card... but sure enough got denied. Called them back and chewed them out and at least they gave me a bunch of points to make up for their F up


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

guillelle said:


> New joiner to the Ming brand here, I was lucky enough to get one yesterday, ultra fast fingers + a Singapore credit card did the trick for me.
> 
> I quite like the watch but I'm not entirely happy about how Ming is talking about the movement being "specially modified" for them, and align with the comments above about how having a jumping hour hand "complication" is close to a gimmick when there's no seconds hand or precise minutes marker. I guess they were trying to find something special about the watch to justify one last run, but it just doesn't feel honest to me.


yeah, who cares about not stopping the movement to jump the hour when there's no second hand. Can't set it to the second in the first place....in fact, there's no good way to measure the timekeeping if you don't have a timegrapher


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

guillelle said:


> New joiner to the Ming brand here, I was lucky enough to get one yesterday, ultra fast fingers + a Singapore credit card did the trick for me.
> 
> I quite like the watch but I'm not entirely happy about how Ming is talking about the movement being "specially modified" for them, and align with the comments above about how having a jumping hour hand "complication" is close to a gimmick when there's no seconds hand or precise minutes marker. I guess they were trying to find something special about the watch to justify one last run, but it just doesn't feel honest to me.


Yeah, I find that Ming Thein sometimes makes it sound like his watches are more special than they are. Same thing about the lugs, which he claimed are very hard to make. However, I didn't buy Ming for the movement, but for their design. So, I didn't really care. Would actually prefer a simple ETA inside in this case (or exclusive decorated movement + sapphire case back).


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Yeah, I find that Ming Thein sometimes makes it sound like his watches are more special than they are. Same thing about the lugs, which he claimed are very hard to make. However, I didn't buy Ming for the movement, but for their design. So, I didn't really care. Would actually prefer a simple ETA inside in this case (or exclusive decorated movement + sapphire case back).


Completely agree, I bought one despite the movement, there are so many elements on the watch that I love. I just hope they don't fall prey to cheap marketing messaging, their offering is strong enough, it doesn't need bogus claims.

For the 17.09 the "customization" of the SW330 is close to a joke... they just removed the seconds and hour hand, and just changed the GMT hand from 24 to 12 hours for the "jumping hour hand" trick. This way they don't need to modify the crown positions. I'd bet that the disc date is still in the movement and can be turned in the intermediate crown position.

While this is a smart approach (and allows for the lower price), it has an important caveat... the hour hand can only move forward This not a real "independent" hour hand, like the one you'd find in Omega or Panerai.

It's funny how they word it on the movement description: "The intermediate crown position now advances the hour hand independently to the rest of the gear train, which continues to run.". Note that it says "advances" not "adjusts".

As a reference, you can find run-off-the-mill watches with the standard version SW330 (which is a clone of an ETA movement, btw) for as low as 500$ (e.g., Glycine Airman)


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Appreciation, apologies and realities: redux


Since the 17.06 Slate in 2019 - I find myself penning one of these posts after nearly each launch. Sometimes they never get published as there is not much new for us to add, but after spending a few hours tonight reading e-mails, DMs and messages, I figure: better too much said, than not enough...




ming.watch







> *Appreciation, apologies and realities: redux*
> 
> Since the 17.06 Slate in 2019 - I find myself penning one of these posts after nearly each launch. Sometimes they never get published as there is not much new for us to add, but after spending a few hours tonight reading e-mails, DMs and messages, I figure: better too much said, than not enough.
> _Warning: long read ahead_
> ...


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Appreciation, apologies and realities: redux
> 
> 
> Since the 17.06 Slate in 2019 - I find myself penning one of these posts after nearly each launch. Sometimes they never get published as there is not much new for us to add, but after spending a few hours tonight reading e-mails, DMs and messages, I figure: better too much said, than not enough...
> ...


They sound frustrated. Honestly, I don't think they need to apologize. Everybody who wants one can grab one tomorrow (with significant wait, but only 50% deposit). I don't think they could have organized this better.


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## brucethemanlee (Apr 8, 2016)

guillelle said:


> it just doesn't feel honest to me.


Then why did you buy one?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

guillelle said:


> Completely agree, I bought one despite the movement, there are so many elements on the watch that I love. I just hope they don't fall prey to cheap marketing messaging, their offering is strong enough, it doesn't need bogus claims.
> 
> For the 17.09 the "customization" of the SW330 is close to a joke... they just removed the seconds and hour hand, and just changed the GMT hand from 24 to 12 hours for the "jumping hour hand" trick. This way they don't need to modify the crown positions. I'd bet that the disc date is still in the movement and can be turned in the intermediate crown position.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I like and respect what Ming is doing. Its good for the whole community and industry. However, at least for me, the initial 17.xx series was ridiculously good. 17.09, not sure anymore, I would say it's priced fairly. I think I read somewhere the initial plan was to make the 17-series annual production. It seems the brand is moving towards the higher price range, which I don't think represents good value anymore. It's hardly "making watches for people like us". I will still support the brand (especially if they decide to continue the 17 or 27 series), but don't think I will grab a 5-figure Ming anytime soon.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

brucethemanlee said:


> Then why did you buy one?


I don't think you have to like everything about the watch to buy it. I bought a Zenith for their past, not their present, for example.


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

As much as I love these, I'm not sure I can stomach the fact that I may be potentially waiting 18 months for one. I'm not a patient man at the best of times! 

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

I'm still aiming to put a deposit down on one tomorrow during the 10 minute window.

But if anything unusual happens, such as my credit card getting denied again and not being able to verify it within 10 minutes, or their website goes down, OR I fail to wake up before 6AM my time zone xD

I will simply accept it isn't meant to be.

I wanted a 17x series 'entry level' Ming for a while (since their first release), and knowing this is the last 17x they will be making has motivated me (whereas I never really made any purchasing attempts for the past 17x releases).

However, I will oddly be happy and content if I fail to buy one, as I am already struggling with my 2 watch rotation (why is it so hard to decide which watch to wear in the morning?!); both of which are, to me, 'better' (or at least more expensive) watches.

Regardless of frustrations etc, I do think people shouldn't be attacking Ming. It's one thing to vent a little on the forum with other peers, but to throw a temper tantrum at them because you didn't get your way is... sad. (Not targeted at anyone here. I don't think anyone here has expressed that kinda anger )


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

brucethemanlee said:


> Then why did you buy one?


I like the watch. I feel it's a bit pricey but still worth it to me.

This doesn't mean I need to like the way Ming is marketing it. Especially because it's signaling a direction that I don't really appreciate. And I think it's worth discussing what the movement really is and what are we paying for: design? materials? movement regulation?


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Also, we need to distinguish a few things here:

Distribution model: For the 17.09 I think it's close to flawless. Ming are doing anything in their power to address an overwhelming demand. I think the tiered access is very smart and their communication is being fantastic
The actual watches (in this case the 17.09) and the price: This is a very subjective matter. It will work for some folks, it might not be for others. It depends on how much someone likes the aesthetics, the materials, the finishing, the movement... and how does that stack against the 2K USD price. Obviously, it seems that there are enough people that like the offering (me included), giving how fast the pieces have sold out
The messaging and branding: this is where I see a concern around the movement, the complication and how it's being conveyed (see all my messages above for more details)


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## nkwatchy (Feb 23, 2011)

People are the worst.

Bots? Marketing gimmicks? Bad ordering / payment system? You can't be serious.

A small company, tiny allocation, heaps of interest and a wide variance in typing speed and ability to operate under pressure. 

Do the maths.

Ming definitely didn't need to apologise for anything, IMO. Not least given EVERYONE who wants one CAN, in fact, get one during the time limited release. That's more than you can say for pretty much any other hyped product these days. 

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

CydeWeys said:


> So what did y'all's credit card charges end up being? On my Citi card (which has a 0% foreign transaction fee) I was charged USD 2,122.73, which is about $8 more than CHF 1,950 at the market exchange rate according to Google.


$8 is negligible at least. You can't even buy a good burger and fries in my city with that ?.

Good luck to everyone trying to get in on the time release. I hope everything goes smoothly and Ming sees this as a huge success so future batches can also be time limited and ensure all real collectors get them.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

PuYang said:


> I'm still aiming to put a deposit down on one tomorrow during the 10 minute window.
> 
> But if anything unusual happens, such as my credit card getting denied again and not being able to verify it within 10 minutes, or their website goes down, OR I fail to wake up before 6AM my time zone xD
> 
> ...


West coast is the best coast (except when it comes to ordering ming).

I got up at 5 AM yesterday just to be sure I would be able to hit the site at 6.


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## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

This will be my first microbrand purchase. Good luck everyone!


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Purchase went through!
Not sure if it was as a result of my phone call yesterday and they did something to "unlock" my account for future similar purchases, or if it was due to the deposit being 50% less than the previous transaction. But glad it worked.

I was stressing, as I called the CC company at 5:55 (5 minutes before the window), and explained to the lady the situation, and was going to ask her to stay on the line with me. Instead, she was like Ok thank you for the info, I will call you right back.

They didn't call me back until my purchase already went through xD. But man, those few minutes were SOOO stressful. I was afraid she wouldn't call back until after the 10 minute window, and my transaction would be denied again lol.


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## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

Well that was relatively painless. Copped a blue. Going back to sleep.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

If I understand correctly the 10 min window has come and gone? Was everything ok?


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

Smooth as Burgundy...looking forward to seeing it in the metal in 2022


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## kobub (Aug 19, 2020)

Also pre-ordered, appreciate the fact that they are trying this timed batch setup guarantee. Hopefully they are able to hit their deliverables in 2022.


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## WastedYears (May 21, 2015)

Just placed an order as well. Should have kept up to date on this thread before pulling the trigger though - because if it's true that the hour hand can only be quickset forward, then the watch isn't as useful as I hoped it would be.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Very smooth and fuss-free process. Good job Ming! Managed to order both. Now on to the 1 year wait haha.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Congrats to everyone who was able to get in on the time limited order. Sounds like it went well.


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## Lukebennett21 (Jan 21, 2020)

If I wasn’t waiting on the 27.02 I definitely would have gotten in on this drop. Such a strong design and great price!


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## lastleonardo2468 (Jan 27, 2020)

Mini rant here everyone: 

I've been trying to get a Blue 17.09 since it opened up. I got all the way to the payment and everything yesterday but my CC declined it. I made sure to call them before today's attempt and it still got declined. Tried 3 other cards I have and still same thing. Tried as many times as I can in the 10 minute window and its all gone now. :/

I'm really frustrated with Ming's system, if multiple payment partners are declining it because it looks suspicious, then there's definitely something wrong on their end. They could at least open up Paypal (I don't mind paying a surcharge or whatever). Super f'ing frustrated right now.


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## efstuck (Apr 4, 2013)

lastleonardo2468 said:


> Mini rant here everyone:
> 
> I've been trying to get a Blue 17.09 since it opened up. I got all the way to the payment and everything yesterday but my CC declined it. I made sure to call them before today's attempt and it still got declined. Tried 3 other cards I have and still same thing. Tried as many times as I can in the 10 minute window and its all gone now. :/
> 
> I'm really frustrated with Ming's system, if multiple payment partners are declining it because it looks suspicious, then there's definitely something wrong on their end. They could at least open up Paypal (I don't mind paying a surcharge or whatever). Super f'ing frustrated right now.


I had a similar experience. I tried 3 cards. All asked for one-time passcode sent to my phone/email. Even with the code, the payment was declined. I actually gave up after trying like 2-3x on each card, but tried one more time and it worked! Kind of random. I wasn't too frustrated though because I was on the fence with this purchase anyways. But glad I got it at the end!


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

lastleonardo2468 said:


> Mini rant here everyone:
> 
> I've been trying to get a Blue 17.09 since it opened up. I got all the way to the payment and everything yesterday but my CC declined it. I made sure to call them before today's attempt and it still got declined. Tried 3 other cards I have and still same thing. Tried as many times as I can in the 10 minute window and its all gone now. :/
> 
> I'm really frustrated with Ming's system, if multiple payment partners are declining it because it looks suspicious, then there's definitely something wrong on their end. They could at least open up Paypal (I don't mind paying a surcharge or whatever). Super f'ing frustrated right now.


Sorry to hear, that is very unfortunate.

Based on my call after my attempt yesterday, I was basically told the system automatically denies the transaction, and therefore 'calling in advance' doesn't actually work. Which is why I called them before the 10 minute window today and was hoping they would stay on the line with me, so if my CC gets denied again, they are already on the line to help. Fortunately it went through this morning without issues.

My failed purchase attempt yesterday was in many ways a 'test run', to see how my CC would react (first time ever being asked for a verification code in all my years of purchasing things online). Like you, my transaction was blocked. Glad I tested that yesterday, because I too would be super frustrated if I made my first attempt today and got denied without any way to fix the issue within 10 minutes.


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## lastleonardo2468 (Jan 27, 2020)

efstuck said:


> I had a similar experience. I tried 3 cards. All asked for one-time passcode sent to my phone/email. Even with the code, the payment was declined. I actually gave up after trying like 2-3x on each card, but tried one more time and it worked! Kind of random. I wasn't too frustrated though because I was on the fence with this purchase anyways. But glad I got it at the end!


Good for you man ! 

I'm glad someone else was able to get through the passcode blockade. I mean, why even send a code to your email if you're going to decline it right ?

Well, anyways, looks like I'll be paying (probably more than retail) on the secondary market for a blue 17.09


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## lastleonardo2468 (Jan 27, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Sorry to hear, that is very unfortunate.
> 
> Based on my call after my attempt yesterday, I was basically told the system automatically denies the transaction, and therefore 'calling in advance' doesn't actually work. Which is why I called them before the 10 minute window today and was hoping they would stay on the line with me, so if my CC gets denied again, they are already on the line to help. Fortunately it went through this morning without issues.
> 
> My failed purchase attempt yesterday was in many ways a 'test run', to see how my CC would react (first time ever being asked for a verification code in all my years of purchasing things online). Like you, my transaction was blocked. Glad I tested that yesterday, because I too would be super frustrated if I made my first attempt today and got denied without any way to fix the issue within 10 minutes.


Thanks for that info, that's good to know. I'm just going to stay on the call with them if there's a purchase next time. Really random filters they have :/


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)




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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

jmariorebelo said:


> View attachment 15829834


That is not bad at all. Shows healthy demand, and enough to curb a crazy secondary.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

monsters said:


> That is not bad at all. Shows healthy demand, and enough to curb a crazy secondary.


I sincerely hope 2000 pieces is enough to keep the secondary prices within sensible limits.


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## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

lastleonardo2468 said:


> Mini rant here everyone:
> 
> I've been trying to get a Blue 17.09 since it opened up. I got all the way to the payment and everything yesterday but my CC declined it. I made sure to call them before today's attempt and it still got declined. Tried 3 other cards I have and still same thing. Tried as many times as I can in the 10 minute window and its all gone now. :/
> 
> I'm really frustrated with Ming's system, if multiple payment partners are declining it because it looks suspicious, then there's definitely something wrong on their end. They could at least open up Paypal (I don't mind paying a surcharge or whatever). Super f'ing frustrated right now.


Sorry to hear. I think it's that we live society with so much identity theft that processing a payment overseas has it's annoyances. I've had payments denied when I try to pay out of city limits.

According to Ming's website:

*Payment approvals:* We have no control over your bank, your credit rating, or whether a payment is approved or not. Our payment gateway partner is Fiserv, a leading payment solutions provider and Fortune 500 company. It's definitely not a case of using a substandard service provider.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I sincerely hope 2000 pieces is enough to keep the secondary prices within sensible limits.


Rolex produces between 800k and 1M watches a year.


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## Buddman (Feb 16, 2014)

Where does the 2000 number come from? In his blog, he's suggesting up to five figures! That's a lot of watches.









Appreciation, apologies and realities: redux


Since the 17.06 Slate in 2019 - I find myself penning one of these posts after nearly each launch. Sometimes they never get published as there is not much new for us to add, but after spending a few hours tonight reading e-mails, DMs and messages, I figure: better too much said, than not enough...




ming.watch


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

jmariorebelo said:


> View attachment 15829834


Sorry, maybe my reading comprehension fail, but does that statement mean:

Approx 1000 of each color was ordered? Or 2000 each for a total of 4000?

And does that count include the first 2 batches (past customers, limited public, AND the time limited combined)?

If it is approximately 1000 of each color ordered, and that includes the previous 2 batches, then the number is actually lower than I expected, given how quickly they sold out on Thursday :O


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Rolex produces between 800k and 1M watches a year.


I get your point, and while MING is popular, it isn't anywhere close to Rolex popular. 2000 pieces is a leap, and I just don't see them going for 3x-4x retail. Who knows though... the watch industry seems to drift further and further from logic and reasoning each day. And it wasn't close to it to begin with.


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## csong91 (Dec 15, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Sorry, maybe my reading comprehension fail, but does that statement mean:
> 
> Approx 1000 of each color was ordered? Or 2000 each for a total of 4000?
> 
> ...


My understanding is that the total - including the previous batches - will be about 2k.

I don't think it necessarily means that there will be around 1k per dial though. It may that there was a strong leaning during the 10 minute window.

edit: if my reading is correct, I think there were a lot of people who were not willing to wait and all the potential flippers were also deterred.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Buddman said:


> Where does the 2000 number come from? In his blog, he's suggesting up to five figures! That's a lot of watches.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was yesterday, and all he said was that they were prepared to deal with demand between a few hundred of 5 digits, not that the demand was any of those numbers. The image I posted was from an Instagram story 2 hours after the window was closed, this is, after the fact.



PuYang said:


> Sorry, maybe my reading comprehension fail, but does that statement mean:
> 
> Approx 1000 of each color was ordered? Or 2000 each for a total of 4000?
> 
> ...


I read it as the total production being 2000 watches. That includes both the blue and the burgundy, and the 3 batches.


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## Buddman (Feb 16, 2014)

That’s a good number then. Plenty of cash and business for them, and not a chance I’ll ever see someone else wearing one too. Ideal.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

^ Yeah, I'm quite happy that the numbers are lower than I expected. No plans to sell mine obviously, but never a bad thing to know you own something a little more exclusive, and thus more 'valuable' in the long run :]

_also helps to convince myself this was a worthwhile purchase_


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I get your point, and while MING is popular, it isn't anywhere close to Rolex popular. 2000 pieces is a leap, and I just don't see them going for 3x-4x retail. Who knows though... the watch industry seems to drift further and further from logic and reasoning each day. And it wasn't close to it to begin with.


Yeah, I think this won't trade at 3-4x, but will be above retail (most successful LEs/discontinued are). Moreover, for a growing brand like Ming, higher numbers bring higher visibility, which may translate to higher pre-owned prices.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

By the way, will this edition be numbered? As in xxx/2043 or something


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## csong91 (Dec 15, 2020)

Any guesses as to which color was more popular? My guess would be that blue was slightly more popular.


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## Forsythjones (Jan 14, 2019)

csong91 said:


> Any guesses as to which color was more popular? My guess would be that blue was slightly more popular.


I would think the blue, mainly since the taupe strap on the red was a bit of an unconventional choice


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## Buddman (Feb 16, 2014)

csong91 said:


> Any guesses as to which color was more popular? My guess would be that blue was slightly more popular.


probably blue. I got burgundy as I already have a few blue watches. I wasn't that keen on the strap on the blue one though, so would have probably replaced it. But I presume you'd need to have a custom strap made due to the curved springbar setup.


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

Buddman said:


> probably blue. I got burgundy as I already have a few blue watches. I wasn't that keen on the strap on the blue one though, so would have probably replaced it. But I presume you'd need to have a custom strap made due to the curved springbar setup.


Ming sell straps, also have seen that Delugs sell curved straps too Curved Straps


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

disco_nug said:


> Ming sell straps, also have seen that Delugs sell curved straps too Curved Straps


Yeah, I wished they made Alcantara straps though. Would love a black Alcantara with burgundy stitching.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

With 2,000 total production I would be pretty surprised if these end up trading for significantly more than retail on the secondary market unless Ming's popularity increases significantly. 

The Tag Heuer x Hodinkee Dato LE had a run of only 250 pieces which was sold out in minutes, but I've seen one listed for sale for weeks on here that seemingly can't sell at even $200 over retail. 

Not that that says a lot about what the secondary market prices of the 17.09 will be, but I thought that was interesting.


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## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

I didn't even realized the blue one comes with an Alcantara material. Alcantara is awesome choice of material.


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## Forsythjones (Jan 14, 2019)

efstuck said:


> I had a similar experience. I tried 3 cards. All asked for one-time passcode sent to my phone/email. Even with the code, the payment was declined. I actually gave up after trying like 2-3x on each card, but tried one more time and it worked! Kind of random. I wasn't too frustrated though because I was on the fence with this purchase anyways. But glad I got it at the end!


I also got declined out on day one, then declined twice in the timed drop, but with no notice from my CC company, then a third try went through. Does seem quite random indeed


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Monstraps makes some pretty good curved straps too:


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## X-va (Sep 27, 2017)

2000 would be a much larger batch than anything else they've ever produced, wonder if this will affect the release of new models, since Ming+ Schwartz-Ettiene will probably take a significant while to finish production of the 19.09s. The timelines for the various batches seems to be as such:

Batch 1:'Deliveries commence in August 2021'
Batch 2: 'deliveries beginning in October 2021'
Batch 3: 'We will only begin in March 2022... and we are aiming to complete all deliveries by the end of 2022'


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

X-va said:


> Batch 3: 'We will only begin in March 2022... and we are aiming to complete all deliveries by the end of 2022'


I don't like it, but this way they sell a lot, still keep it exclusive enough and have zero risk of producing watches that end up unsold. Established brands are expected to keep regular production models but Ming prove that with enough of a fan base, logic goes out the window.

Myself, I wouldn't (and won't) pay for a watch that I'll never see for 12 months, maybe even 20. Feels like I'd be doing the brand a favour when it should be the other away around. We as costumers have lots of options to chose from and brands should do their best to get our business...


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## lookitzduncs (Jul 10, 2019)

brianinCA said:


> With 2,000 total production I would be pretty surprised if these end up trading for significantly more than retail on the secondary market unless Ming's popularity increases significantly.
> 
> The Tag Heuer x Hodinkee Dato LE had a run of only 250 pieces which was sold out in minutes, but I've seen one listed for sale for weeks on here that seemingly can't sell at even $200 over retail.
> 
> Not that that says a lot about what the secondary market prices of the 17.09 will be, but I thought that was interesting.


To be fair, that's a Tag Heuer x Hodinkee. Not only is Tag losing popularity, Hodinkee makes a billion LE with different brands seemingly every month . Not saying that the Ming won't follow a similar trajectory but a Ming is much more sought after than a LE Tag for watch enthusiasts. Especially a Tag that isn't a Carrera/Monaco.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Yeah, I think this won't trade at 3-4x, but will be above retail (most successful LEs/discontinued are). Moreover, for a growing brand like Ming, higher numbers bring higher visibility, which may translate to higher pre-owned prices.


Ming's visibility is already enormous in watch circles. The 17.09 was written up in Monochrome, W&W, Fratello, and WatchesBySJX...and probably could've been more, save that Watches and Wonders was going on. Past releases have been covered extensively as well. And 3 GPHG finalists, with 1 winning. And don't be surprised if the 17.09 is at least a finalist, if not the winner, in the Challenge category this year.

As for prices: look at Chrono24. Yeah, sure, they run on the higher side, but...the _lowest_ asking price for a 17 (there's 12 standard production 17's from different releases) is $4000. THere's one Copper offered...they want just under $6000. Hodinkee listed one yesterday in their shop...IIRC mint 17.01 with full papers...for $3200.

Some of this is, these just don't come up for sale all that often...partly, one must think, due to small production numbers, which will be less of an issue with the 17.09's. There'll be flipping going on because the production's fully allocated and won't be expanded. Hard to say what the flippers will ask this fall. The resale market probably won't settle for 18 months, perhaps later; it depends on how long it takes Ming to deliver the ~ 1500 from today. (6 months would not surprise me at all.) But even with the higher numbers, I think $5000 will be the lower end.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> I don't like it, but this way they sell a lot, still keep it exclusive enough and have zero risk of producing watches that end up unsold. Established brands are expected to keep regular production models but Ming prove that with enough of a fan base, logic goes out the window.
> 
> Myself, I wouldn't (and won't) pay for a watch that I'll never see for 12 months, maybe even 20. Feels like I'd be doing the brand a favour when it should be the other away around. We as costumers have lots of options to chose from and brands should do their best to get our business...


If you read the link I shared to their blog post from yesterday, they mentioned placing the order for the 450 units (batch 1 and batch 2) in April 2020. So if that is true, then maybe it was just an honest but incorrect calculation on their behalf. So this third batch was their attempt at making up for their incorrectly estimated numbers. And I'm inclined to believe them in this particular instance.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

lookitzduncs said:


> To be fair, that's a Tag Heuer x Hodinkee. Not only is Tag losing popularity, Hodinkee makes a billion LE with different brands seemingly every month . Not saying that the Ming won't follow a similar trajectory but a Ming is much more sought after than a LE Tag for watch enthusiasts. Especially a Tag that isn't a Carrera/Monaco.


Agreed. But with how fast the 250 pieces sold out, I would have expected there to be more demand on the secondary market for the Tag Heuer x Hodinkee Dato. It is surprising to me that one listed at only $200 over retail can languish on the market for so long. Personally, I bought the Tag Heuer x Hodinkee Dato from Tag's website, and ended up returning it to Tag because I found it to be too thick for my taste, and selling an $8k watch for $200 over retail is not worth the hassle to me.

As for the 17.09, I think pretty much anyone who wanted this Ming release was able to get one, and inevitably there will be a number of people that end up selling theirs once they arrive (due to change of mind or circumstances or hopes of a quick flip buck), so it seems unlikely to me that secondary market prices for the 17.09 will be significantly over retail unless Ming's popularity increases from now until then. I picked up a blue myself and plan on keeping it, but if I decide its not for me I don't imagine I will be making much, if any, money on it. I won't be mad if I'm wrong, but we'll see!


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## X-va (Sep 27, 2017)

jmariorebelo said:


> I don't like it, but this way they sell a lot, still keep it exclusive enough and have zero risk of producing watches that end up unsold. Established brands are expected to keep regular production models but Ming prove that with enough of a fan base, logic goes out the window.
> 
> Myself, I wouldn't (and won't) pay for a watch that I'll never see for 12 months, maybe even 20. Feels like I'd be doing the brand a favour when it should be the other away around. We as costumers have lots of options to chose from and brands should do their best to get our business...


Yeah, I think even Ming Thein would be surprised by how he has been able to keep up the same pre-payment structure even with the super long projected wait times. Even though the limited time batch is 50% deposit, that's still quite a big sum.

I think that actually the success of Ming probably goes beyond the wildest dreams of Ming Thein and their co-collaborators when they first started, from producing small batches of sub 1000USD watches to producing now their Special Cave projects which are increasingly complex. For this, I have to give them massive props, their design language is unique and their price point is fairly reasonable. One just wonders how their transition from microbrand to a larger company will proceed. Surely as you mentioned, a bigger brand can't expect their customers to wait a year for a watch.


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## X-va (Sep 27, 2017)

Another important point I missed out in the previous post is that they've constantly innovated, discontinuing and releasing designs fairly often and this has kept their watches really fresh. With such a big batch to complete, I have concerns that their nimbleness will be somewhat stunted.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

jmariorebelo said:


> I don't like it, but this way they sell a lot, still keep it exclusive enough and have zero risk of producing watches that end up unsold. Established brands are expected to keep regular production models but Ming prove that with enough of a fan base, logic goes out the window.
> 
> Myself, I wouldn't (and won't) pay for a watch that I'll never see for 12 months, maybe even 20. Feels like I'd be doing the brand a favour when it should be the other away around. We as costumers have lots of options to chose from and brands should do their best to get our business...


That's one way of looking at it, and fair enough. For me, I look at it as Ming is doing their customers a favor by guaranteeing that we get the watch we want, and taking away power from flippers and speculators. If anything, by producing 2,000 17.09's, it may decrease the future hype of Ming, leaving only true fans of the brand who want to buy the watch to keep for themselves rather than to speculate on secondary market values. It's basically the opposite of what Rolex is doing.


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## Buddman (Feb 16, 2014)

So much discussion on after sale value. Just buy watches you love. The flippers take the joy out of the hobby.


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

brianinCA said:


> As for the 17.09, I think pretty much anyone who wanted this Ming release was able to get one, and inevitably there will be a number of people that end up selling theirs once they arrive (due to change of mind or circumstances or hopes of a quick flip buck), so it seems unlikely to me that secondary market prices for the 17.09 will be significantly over retail unless Ming's popularity increases from now until then. I picked up a blue myself and plan on keeping it, but if I decide its not for me I don't imagine I will be making much, if any, money on it. I won't be mad if I'm wrong, but we'll see!


I, for one and maybe only one, would be glad if the resale price does not go significantly higher. I have struggled with wearing "profit" on my wrist. At $4k, I'd want to sell to lock in the profit and buy something else. For a watch that I actually want to wear, a resale price similar to what I paid is actually really nice. And it keeps my insurance valuation and cost down too. All in, meeting demand is good!

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## EekTheCat (Feb 21, 2021)

beefeater said:


> And it keeps my insurance valuation and cost down too.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


U got a point there, its all fun n games owning watches that beat stonks, until the coverage bill comes along.


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## GregoryD (Jan 31, 2009)

Not 17.09, but Ming-related: I got my 18.01 a couple of days ago. I love it! But it's also going back for repair - it's got a large lume defect on the hour hand. I'm not complaining, Ming has arranged for a return, and I'm hoping it gets sorted quickly so I can enjoy the dazzling lume this summer!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

beefeater said:


> I, for one and maybe only one, would be glad if the resale price does not go significantly higher. I have struggled with wearing "profit" on my wrist. At $4k, I'd want to sell to lock in the profit and buy something else. For a watch that I actually want to wear, a resale price similar to what I paid is actually really nice. And it keeps my insurance valuation and cost down too. All in, meeting demand is good!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Same. I start to look at them differently, and have $4k worth of expectations from a $2k watch, which it almost always won't live up to. This hobby can be quite poisonous when resale and profit gets involved, which is why I plan on engraving a big eggplant onto my 17.09 as soon as it arrives, making it absolutely worthless on the pre-owned market


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

singularityseven said:


> Same. I start to look at them differently, and have $4k worth of expectations from a $2k watch, which it almost always won't live up to. This hobby can be quite poisonous when resale and profit gets involved, which is why I plan on engraving a big eggplant onto my 17.09 as soon as it arrives, making it absolutely worthless on the pre-owned market


My wife loves it when I use the 🍆 emoji in our text convos.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> Same. I start to look at them differently, and have $4k worth of expectations from a $2k watch, which it almost always won't live up to. This hobby can be quite poisonous when resale and profit gets involved, which is why I plan on engraving a big eggplant onto my 17.09 as soon as it arrives, making it absolutely worthless on the pre-owned market


😂  
Congratulations to all of you who ordered. I agree sometimes resale $ up or down takes away alot from this hobby. 
I had to force myself to sit in the sidelines for this one since I am waiting delivery of 27.01 but I think Ming continues to deserve watch lovers support.


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## watchobs (Jun 13, 2011)

Well, I'm in for my first Ming (blue dial). I believe that I just barely met that 10 minute window. Phhhhwww! And now onto the wait/anticipation. I would be fascinated to find out how many were sold in the two day ten minute window.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

watchobs said:


> Well, I'm in for my first Ming (blue dial). I believe that I just barely met that 10 minute window. Phhhhwww! And now onto the wait/anticipation. I would be fascinated to find out how many were sold in the two day ten minute window.


The numbers were posted a page or 2 back in this thread. Approx 2000. Although I can't find where that information is posted by Ming (I checked their website and instagram).

----

Waiting a year for any purchase may seem very difficult to most, but if any of you have ever been in the Mechanical Keyboards hobby for a while, you'll know this is super common. It doesn't phase keyboard enthusiasts lol. Their group buys for keycaps or limited production boards/cases function very similarly. Scalpers, Bots, a mass hoard hitting F5 to buy something when it drops.

I just got an email a few days ago about some keyboard switches I bought back in Fall 2020 being shipped now. (~ half a year wait, for a small bag of plastic/metal switches lol)


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

singularityseven said:


> Same. I start to look at them differently, and have $4k worth of expectations from a $2k watch, which it almost always won't live up to. This hobby can be quite poisonous when resale and profit gets involved, which is why I plan on engraving a big eggplant onto my 17.09 as soon as it arrives, making it absolutely worthless on the pre-owned market


What does one expect from a $4k watch? I'm thinking maybe that's where the disconnect is.

And it's easy to avoid that poison. Ignore it. Buy what you like because you like it and you intend to keep it...profit be damned. I'm not selling my 17.01 or my 17.06 copper, even if I could make a tidy profit. (Less than some, as I don't bother retaining box, papers, etc.) Profit to become...what? A replacement for what I've already got? WHY? If I'm not happy with a given watch, ok, sure...but if I am? Makes no sense to me.

I do appreciate the "oh I like that" push. So many nice...whatever hooks you. Or "oh man that's a really nice deal and I've kinda wanted it...." I _try_ to keep my new acquisitions to pieces that offer something relatively unique that I don't have...I ultimately passed here partly for that, and partly because I Don't Do Mornings Well At All. I spend far too much time here, or on Watchville; there's never a shortage of watches I'd love to have. But I have plenty now.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

gangrel said:


> What does one expect from a $4k watch?


What do I expect from a $4k watch? Too much, I've been told ?

But yes, I don't disagree with anything you've said. My solution is to hopefully avoid watch groups, Instagram, YouTube etc. and live out my days enjoying my collection. Working from home has been the main culprit for me, and I suspect many others!


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## JoeSeiko6002 (Oct 30, 2019)

I too picked up my first Ming with this 17.09 (blue) during the Thursday feeding frenzy by being quick, a bit lucky, and yet still not by being a bot. I also checked in a couple times today during the 10 minute sale because I was still iffy about grabbing a burgundy as well to see which I liked better. In the end though, I went with my gut and stuck with only the blue.

I have to say though, that all complaints aside, from an impartial standpoint I was _very_ impressed with how well Ming handled these two days of sales. As a bit of a side story, this was interesting week as I was fortunate enough to get 3 of 3 "wins" on hyped up releases.

Monday I scored the Casio NASA G-Shock, Wednesday the Lego Ulysses model, and Thursday the blue 17.09. The Casio site got pummeled and took about 30 minutes to recover before it was even possible to order and then it was multiple payment errors before success. A total nightmare. The Lego site went down immediately before the drop, and was entirely predictable because it happened in each of the timezones throughout the night as they phased the rollout. Took a good 15 minutes for it to resolve and then there were also payment issues before success. An embarrassment for a company the size of Lego.

But in contrast, Ming's drop, while frantic and very short lived, appeared to be entirely stable and trouble-free, from theirs as a product standpoint. From what I've read, it seems like all of the issues were on the customer's (bank) side. So I have to say I'm pretty impressed with how well Ming came through. And the 10 minute window looked to have gone pretty smooth today. Nearest I can tell, it went live right on the hour and actually lasted a bit over 10 minutes, right about 15 seconds shy of 11 actually. For such a popular/hyped product, it really seems to me that this was an ideal rollout to get product to as many fans as possible.

I'm very grateful to have scored one this time, and congrats to all the others that did as well.

Cheers!


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## watchobs (Jun 13, 2011)

PuYang said:


> The numbers were posted a page or 2 back in this thread. Approx 2000. Although I can't find where that information is posted by Ming (I checked their website and instagram).
> 
> ----
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification.


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## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

PuYang said:


> The numbers were posted a page or 2 back in this thread. Approx 2000. Although I can't find where that information is posted by Ming (I checked their website and instagram).
> 
> ----
> 
> ...


If you're in the video game community, the crowd funded Star Citizen has been in development since 2012. Kickstarter donators have been waiting for almost a decade.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

CyanideAndHappiness said:


> If you're in the video game community, the crowd funded Star Citizen has been in development since 2012. Kickstarter donators have been waiting for almost a decade.


Video game Kickstarter seem like they're more likely to be vapor ware than not. I've backed several Kickstarters and almost all of the ones that are games materialized into nothing. I think a lot of it has to do with feature bloat and overpromising.


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

yellowfury said:


> Video game Kickstarter seem like they're more likely to be vapor ware than not. I've backed several Kickstarters and almost all of the ones that are games materialized into nothing. I think a lot of it has to do with feature bloat and overpromising.


Software engineering is just flat out hard, and games are no exception. Look at all the problems Cyberpunk 2077 had, and yet CDPR is one of the best game dev studios in the country. Most of those videogame Kickstarters don't even have a chance.

Making a watch, on the other hand, is relatively easier, and the process a lot more structured/predictable. So long as you have a group of people who have experience making watches, and aren't being overly ambitious trying to deliver insane complications that no one else ever has, they should pull through. The vast majority of watch Kickstarters are just microbrands with a cool design, using mostly off-the-shelf movements and other commercially available parts.


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## lookitzduncs (Jul 10, 2019)

brianinCA said:


> Agreed. But with how fast the 250 pieces sold out, I would have expected there to be more demand on the secondary market for the Tag Heuer x Hodinkee Dato. It is surprising to me that one listed at only $200 over retail can languish on the market for so long. Personally, I bought the Tag Heuer x Hodinkee Dato from Tag's website, and ended up returning it to Tag because I found it to be too thick for my taste, and selling an $8k watch for $200 over retail is not worth the hassle to me.
> 
> As for the 17.09, I think pretty much anyone who wanted this Ming release was able to get one, and inevitably there will be a number of people that end up selling theirs once they arrive (due to change of mind or circumstances or hopes of a quick flip buck), so it seems unlikely to me that secondary market prices for the 17.09 will be significantly over retail unless Ming's popularity increases from now until then. I picked up a blue myself and plan on keeping it, but if I decide its not for me I don't imagine I will be making much, if any, money on it. I won't be mad if I'm wrong, but we'll see!


I agree. Although it's a very different story from a $8000 watch vs a $2000. IE: $200 increase on a ming would be 10% (not insignifcant) and I'm sure that would sell easily. Whereas $200 increase on an 8K tag is relatively insignifcant but people won't just drop 8.2k on a whim. I don't think this ming will triple in value like previous Ming's but I'm confident it will hold value or at least stay close to 2k.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

CydeWeys said:


> Software engineering is just flat out hard, and games are no exception. Look at all the problems Cyberpunk 2077 had, and yet CDPR is one of the best game dev studios in the country. Most of those videogame Kickstarters don't even have a chance.
> 
> Making a watch, on the other hand, is relatively easier, and the process a lot more structured/predictable. So long as you have a group of people who have experience making watches, and aren't being overly ambitious trying to deliver insane complications that no one else ever has, they should pull through. The vast majority of watch Kickstarters are just microbrands with a cool design, using mostly off-the-shelf movements and other commercially available parts.


Yeah game Dev is it's own beast. I think it's actually damaged by stretch goals because it's more work for the devs but in the same amount of time.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

gangrel said:


> Ming's visibility is already enormous in watch circles. The 17.09 was written up in Monochrome, W&W, Fratello, and WatchesBySJX...and probably could've been more, save that Watches and Wonders was going on. Past releases have been covered extensively as well. And 3 GPHG finalists, with 1 winning. And don't be surprised if the 17.09 is at least a finalist, if not the winner, in the Challenge category this year.
> 
> As for prices: look at Chrono24. Yeah, sure, they run on the higher side, but...the _lowest_ asking price for a 17 (there's 12 standard production 17's from different releases) is $4000. THere's one Copper offered...they want just under $6000. Hodinkee listed one yesterday in their shop...IIRC mint 17.01 with full papers...for $3200.
> 
> Some of this is, these just don't come up for sale all that often...partly, one must think, due to small production numbers, which will be less of an issue with the 17.09's. There'll be flipping going on because the production's fully allocated and won't be expanded. Hard to say what the flippers will ask this fall. The resale market probably won't settle for 18 months, perhaps later; it depends on how long it takes Ming to deliver the ~ 1500 from today. (6 months would not surprise me at all.) But even with the higher numbers, I think $5000 will be the lower end.


Question: what do you think the future floor on Ming release are? Do you think they will still make any sub-1950CHF watches any more? I think that's one reason why prices are generally going up on the second hand market, is that overall Ming watches are getting more expensive.

Also, I think the 17.01 on sale from Hodinkee is a good comparison point. The same buyer could have bought (to me) what is a superior watch a day later at 50% less cost but have to wait a year to get the watch. So it seems as though those same factors will still exist even after the 17.09 releases
-A potential buyer has no idea when the next Ming release is going to be
-Even if there is one upcoming, it might be a limited sale and you have to pray you can get the watch against hordes of other people, and you might be buying a $5-6000 watch (or more) at that time 
-even if you do successfully purchase that watch, you will have to wait a minimum of 4-6 months to get it in hand

so, given all that inconvenience, I think there will be a good premium on the 17.09, although it ultimately depends what the supply is on the secondary market I guess.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

I've backed several KS watches. That I can recall, only 1 had an issue, and it wasn't the project's fault...or, not much. No date window on the dial. You can't order 2824's or 200's without a date ring, IIRC. They all have em, as well as the crown setting. The project promised to remove the crown setting. This isn't hard; it's done decently often. BUT, it requires a special part, and Sellita doesn't make it...only ETA does. And ETA decided...no, we won't sell you the part.

ARGH!!! 

And I'm backing one right now that is beginning to be worrisome; supposed to ship this month, we haven't heard from the project for coming up on 8 weeks. But in general: I think most watch project creators have a decent level of technical expertise. OTOH, project management for a video game is a MESS. Much more complex than anyone ever realizes, until they try to do it.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

conrad227 said:


> Question: what do you think the future floor on Ming release are? Do you think they will still make any sub-1950CHF watches any more? I think that's one reason why prices are generally going up on the second hand market, is that overall Ming watches are getting more expensive.
> 
> Also, I think the 17.01 on sale from Hodinkee is a good comparison point. The same buyer could have bought (to me) what is a superior watch a day later at 50% less cost but have to wait a year to get the watch. So it seems as though those same factors will still exist even after the 17.09 releases
> -A potential buyer has no idea when the next Ming release is going to be
> ...


Sub-2K? No. There may be more 17.09s, at similar price points, but unfortunately the new models are likely to be higher. I also wouldn't be surprised if they move away from Sellita to Schwarz Etienne or Vaucher...which will be considerably more.

$3200 for a 17.01 is also in part about the scarcity of 17.01's, and the fact that it is effectively a First Edition type of watch, since it was Ming's first release.

It's very unlikely there will ever be a large number of Mings. And if they retain the high quality, they'll retain their status and popularity. That argues against any large quantities showing up on the secondary markets, at least to me. Oh, they'll show up...but be snapped up too.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I wonder if there will be a market for color swaps of the 17.09?


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

They made it pretty clear that this is the last run of the 17.xx series, which is one of the reasons I think the 17.09 will still be sought after. On clubhouse yesterday, and on a few other recent chats, they said there would be a replacement for the 17 at a slightly higher price point with additional features. What this new series will be called, what features it may have and when it will be out is unknown to the public.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Yeah, they won't do more 17.XX watches at all, according to Ming in clubhouse. He mentioned that they'll introduce a new line of everyday watches, but they'll be at a slightly higher price point since they found this below 2000 chf one to be too restrictive.

He also said that they are developing more complex watches in general, so it sounds prices will never be as low as this week. He announced that they're developing their own movement: a chrono with tourbillon and micro rotor with "an extra complication that has never been done". He mentioned that if all planets align, they may have the first prototype at the end of 2022.

So, yeah, this will be the last sub 2k chf release for Ming.

What will all of these things do to Ming secondary market? Who knows... My take is that this release will indeed go for a premium given where the brand is going and that the release model discouraged flippers so I expect there won't be a lot of supply on the secondary market. Not a large premium though. 

In the end, I think Ming's release model was truly fair to fans and will be healthy for the brand for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

I have 17.03 and 18.01 in hand.

17.09 was secured last night.

Having worn them often during daily workout , outdoor activities and even attend board meeting.

Its light weight, thin casing profiles make it one of my most comfortably wearable watch.

The improved lumibrite and perfect polishing on hands , ease the time reading from all angles in dim light.

Well, 17.09 ordering is the best so far. This will cut off grey watch dealer and flipper in getting the watch. MING sincerity in getting rid of the problem get my double thumbs up!


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Hey does anyone have the universal bracelet? I wanna know whats the max size it goes before buying additional links. The ming straps are too small for my wrist so I’m concerned for the bracelet.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

yellowfury said:


> Hey does anyone have the universal bracelet? I wanna know whats the max size it goes before buying additional links. The ming straps are too small for my wrist so I'm concerned for the bracelet.


My 18.01 is on an universal bracelet. If I remember correctly, it's max size is at least 7.5".


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Cocas said:


> My 18.01 is on an universal bracelet. If I remember correctly, it's max size is at least 7.5".


That's the sound of my heart tearing asunder. My wrist is 8.5" and the straps max out at 8.3" sure I could squeeze but it would be uncomfortable and I hate using the last hole.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

yellowfury said:


> That's the sound of my heart tearing asunder. My wrist is 8.5" and the straps max out at 8.3" sure I could squeeze but it would be uncomfortable and I hate using the last hole.


I remeasured it just now. The universal bracelet only fits 8 inches wrist max.


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## Buddman (Feb 16, 2014)

conrad227 said:


> Question: what do you think the future floor on Ming release are? Do you think they will still make any sub-1950CHF watches any more? I think that's one reason why prices are generally going up on the second hand market, is that overall Ming watches are getting more expensive.
> 
> Also, I think the 17.01 on sale from Hodinkee is a good comparison point. The same buyer could have bought (to me) what is a superior watch a day later at 50% less cost but have to wait a year to get the watch. So it seems as though those same factors will still exist even after the 17.09 releases
> -A potential buyer has no idea when the next Ming release is going to be
> ...


hodunkee isn't a good way to judge market prices of watches. They have a rather "select" clientele that don't window shop too much before they press the buy button.


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## Buddman (Feb 16, 2014)

yellowfury said:


> That's the sound of my heart tearing asunder. My wrist is 8.5" and the straps max out at 8.3" sure I could squeeze but it would be uncomfortable and I hate using the last hole.


 You could email them and see if they could provide additional links?


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

JoeSeiko6002 said:


> I too picked up my first Ming with this 17.09 (blue) during the Thursday feeding frenzy by being quick, a bit lucky, and yet still not by being a bot. I also checked in a couple times today during the 10 minute sale because I was still iffy about grabbing a burgundy as well to see which I liked better. In the end though, I went with my gut and stuck with only the blue.
> 
> I have to say though, that all complaints aside, from an impartial standpoint I was _very_ impressed with how well Ming handled these two days of sales. As a bit of a side story, this was interesting week as I was fortunate enough to get 3 of 3 "wins" on hyped up releases.
> 
> ...


A fellow Lego and Ming fan! I thought I was the only one! I didn't go for either of these limited offers, but I've been paying attention to the chat on the Lego sites and I have to say, Ming has done much much better in this round than the biggest toy company in the world. There is some (justified) complaining about payment authorization, but that is nothing compared to your global website being unable to serve up the product at all in some regions.

Lego could do with hiring Ming Thien to come up with and run their limited range, frankly.

Count yourself lucky, non AFOL WIS


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## Fjolsvin (May 17, 2018)

guillelle said:


> Completely agree, I bought one despite the movement, there are so many elements on the watch that I love. I just hope they don't fall prey to cheap marketing messaging, their offering is strong enough, it doesn't need bogus claims.
> 
> For the 17.09 the "customization" of the SW330 is close to a joke... they just removed the seconds and hour hand, and just changed the GMT hand from 24 to 12 hours for the "jumping hour hand" trick. This way they don't need to modify the crown positions. I'd bet that the disc date is still in the movement and can be turned in the intermediate crown position.
> 
> ...


I never bought this watch because of the movement, just the design, but I always want to know 100% there is to know about the watches I own. So I couldn't help myself to ask Ming about this directly just to get a clarification. Basically, you were right on the money regarding the hour hands movement. They confirmed it will only move forwards, specifically they said "_The hour hand only moves forwards, not backwards_.". However, regarding the date disc, I asked "_The second question is regarding the date and whether or not it has been removed or if there is a ghost date_." and they answered with "_Our Cal. 330M1 does not have a date wheel._".


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

Fjolsvin said:


> Basically, you were right on the money regarding the hour hands movement. They confirmed it will only move forwards, specifically they said "_The hour hand only moves forwards, not backwards_.". However, regarding the date disc, I asked "_The second question is regarding the date and whether or not it has been removed or if there is a ghost date_." and they answered with "_Our Cal. 330M1 does not have a date wheel._".


Thank you for asking and for posting the answer.


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## csong91 (Dec 15, 2020)

Anyone having second thoughts on their color selection? I bought the Burgundy but the “blue bug” has bit me again hahaha


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

csong91 said:


> Anyone having second thoughts on their color selection? I bought the Burgundy but the "blue bug" has bit me again hahaha


No, but that may be because I bought the blue.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Drebs said:


> No, but that may be because I bought the blue.


Exactly the same for me haha

I thought Burgundy would be the logical choice to expand the variety in my collection but at the end of the day... Blue was going to be worn more than the Burgundy one so why make the rational choice if the emotional one brings so much joy!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

csong91 said:


> Anyone having second thoughts on their color selection? I bought the Burgundy but the "blue bug" has bit me again hahaha


Burgundy is what I wanted, but my sick obsession with blue wouldn't allow it. So Burgundy is still on my mind.


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

csong91 said:


> Anyone having second thoughts on their color selection? I bought the Burgundy but the "blue bug" has bit me again hahaha


I have two blues already and have been itching for something in a warmer red tone. Gotta say, I am super excited by the burgundy!

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Fjolsvin said:


> I never bought this watch because of the movement, just the design, but I always want to know 100% there is to know about the watches I own. So I couldn't help myself to ask Ming about this directly just to get a clarification. Basically, you were right on the money regarding the hour hands movement. They confirmed it will only move forwards, specifically they said "_The hour hand only moves forwards, not backwards_.". However, regarding the date disc, I asked "_The second question is regarding the date and whether or not it has been removed or if there is a ghost date_." and they answered with "_Our Cal. 330M1 does not have a date wheel._".


Thanks for the confirmation! I hope they read between the lines and understand that if fans have this kind of questions is because the messaging is confusing.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk


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## JoeSeiko6002 (Oct 30, 2019)

csong91 said:


> Anyone having second thoughts on their color selection? I bought the Burgundy but the "blue bug" has bit me again hahaha


I ultimately picked blue because I thought the cooler tone lume looked better with the blue dial. Had the burgundy come with a lume more in the warmer range, I might have been much more enticed.


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## 41Mets (Dec 25, 2014)

beefeater said:


> I have two blues already and have been itching for something in a warmer red tone. Gotta say, I am super excited by the burgundy!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Blue is my favorite watch color by far. But I switched out a blue to a burgundy dial on my triton and it's just other level.


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## csong91 (Dec 15, 2020)

Thank you all for the comments! Some of your comments have brought me back to my senses and reminded me why I went with the Burgundy in the first place! (Although I'm sure I'll have some more "what if" moments) hahah


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Yeah, nice burgundy dials are few and far between. I did get one, tho, last fall...from a somewhat unexpected source, actually. Hamilton Jazzmaster Thinline auto. The burgundy dial was, I believe, a limited-time option, not in their usual range, but still out there. And hey, there's a 2892 under the hood and there's no bad 2892s...I think the base level is Elabore and it's something like 7 seconds per day. If I didn't have it, I probably would've pulled the trigger on one of these, and definitely in burgundy. Replaced the strap...Hamilton straps are, well, let's just say, underwhelming...with a Horween shell cordovan Color #8 I had. Verra nice.....


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Hey does Ming do boxes or something smaller like a pouch/roll? I have a lot of boxes just sitting around and I don’t need more or my wife will kill me.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> Hey does Ming do boxes or something smaller like a pouch/roll? I have a lot of boxes just sitting around and I don't need more or my wife will kill me.


Yeah they do leather watch rolls that come in a dust case. But the watch rolls are mostly decorative/presentational, they aren't functional as actual watch rolls.

You can check out @singularityseven's review of the 18.01 on Youtube, I don't think he actually talks about the leather folio but you can see it in the background for a good part of the video.



csong91 said:


> Thank you all for the comments! Some of your comments have brought me back to my senses and reminded me why I went with the Burgundy in the first place! (Although I'm sure I'll have some more "what if" moments) hahah


I got the burgundy because I already have the 17.06 slate. I've always wanted a deep red watch, I currently have the Pinion TT and the Chrono Tokyo Reiwa Copper but they are both more reddish-brown/maroon.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

JoeSeiko6002 said:


> I ultimately picked blue because I thought the cooler tone lume looked better with the blue dial. Had the burgundy come with a lume more in the warmer range, I might have been much more enticed.


So, kind of related to your comment ...

I asked email them and asked Sarah if the blue one would look cooler at the night, I thought because the lume light might have more relfections off a blue dial (vs a burgundy which might absorb some of the blue lume light), but in the end she said that they both looked the same, so that sent me toward the burgundy, as there are a ton of blue watches on the market, but rarely do I see a burgundy one that I like.


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## Jason Bourne (Nov 22, 2012)

There’s a Ming 17.01 for $2200 on Watchrecon. I’ve PM’d the seller why it was taken down on WUS, but now it’s on EBay. The pics show the polished case roughed up really bad. How much would it cost to send to Ming to re-polish the case ?

EDIT-Sold already lol.


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## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

Been so long since i last login.

I'm still trying to find the good old 19.01 but don't see it anywhere


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

For those with small wrists, you can contact Ming for a shorter strap!

I emailed them to ask about shorter straps, and here is the response:

_Thank for your 17.09 order._
_
We maintain a small inventory of short (65/115) straps specifically for customers who might need one with their watch. So we could accommodate a request for this - however, we don't have all straps in stock so your watch may ship with a strap that differs from the one pictured. 
_
_We will of course always ship with a suitable and aesthetically matched strap._

I don't particularly care for the strap that is pictured with the Blue 17.09, so I'm most likely going to ask them for a shorter strap when the time comes (and hope it pairs nicely), that way I can wear the watch comfortably as I decide what custom straps I want to buy for it


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## csong91 (Dec 15, 2020)

PuYang said:


> For those with small wrists, you can contact Ming for a shorter strap!
> 
> I emailed them to ask about shorter straps, and here is the response:
> 
> ...


As a small "wristor" I appreciate this information! Thank you for emailing and letting us know!


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## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

PuYang said:


> For those with small wrists, you can contact Ming for a shorter strap!
> 
> I emailed them to ask about shorter straps, and here is the response:
> 
> ...


This is a good news. Fellow skinny twin here.  Do you know if it is still an alcantara fabric?


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

I ordered 17.09 burgundy dial too. Hope the color texture is really special.


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## Buddman (Feb 16, 2014)

I’ve received an email today with my estimated delivery date for Burgundy at the end of October. This is from the limited 150 allocation in the second day if the offer. Very efficient!


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## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

Buddman said:


> I've received an email today with my estimated delivery date for Burgundy at the end of October. This is from the limited 150 allocation in the second day if the offer. Very efficient!


Yup received mine too.
I guess should prepare for a delay.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

> A bit late for #mingmonday, but we didn't want to rush the post-launch admin and recap process. Here are some quick highlights and takeaways from the 17.09 launch last week - more to follow on a dedicated website post later this week. Please also note that as we're still swamped with admin, we may not reply to comments on this post. Please email us with any queries.
> .
> Across both variants and all the order windows, the number of watches produced stands at over 2,000 pieces. As the 17.09 is not a limited edition (and our process to weed out flippers and people attempting to purchase above the quantity limit) still continues, we will not be disclosing exact and final production numbers. The same goes for the split between dial colours, but we can say that the blue had a slight edge - the split was roughly 55%/45% in favour of the Blue.
> .
> ...


From their Instagram -

__
http://instagr.am/p/CN49_vhLjTc/


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

lol at the guy who attempted to buy 8x.



CyanideAndHappiness said:


> This is a good news. Fellow skinny twin here.  Do you know if it is still an alcantara fabric?


Based on their response, I don't think it would be? At least, not the Black Alcantara with blue stitching originally designed/pictured with the watch. They will basically just try to pair a shorter strap that still visually pairs decently from my understanding.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

PuYang said:


> lol at the guy who attempted to buy 8x.


I stumbled across a photograph of the individual who tried to buy 8. Turns out it was a harmless purchase, and he was just looking to put one on each wrist. He doesn't look pleased that his order was rejected.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

PuYang said:


> lol at the guy who attempted to buy 8x.
> 
> Based on their response, I don't think it would be? At least, not the Black Alcantara with blue stitching originally designed/pictured with the watch. They will basically just try to pair a shorter strap that still visually pairs decently from my understanding.


I have a very twiggy wrist, but will probably just wait for the strap to come as-is. If anything, I will just order a new one.


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## icenine (Aug 4, 2015)

How does over 2000 for the recent release compare to unit # for their past releases? Is that far more abundant?

Didn't buy one but considered it, half as an investment piece given the appreciation on other Mings, but decided against it given the unknown of how many more of these will exist


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

icenine said:


> How does over 2000 for the recent release compare to unit # for their past releases? Is that far more abundant?
> 
> Didn't buy one but considered it, half as an investment piece given the appreciation on other Mings, but decided against it given the unknown of how many more of these will exist


This is significantly more than the previous releases (hundreds vs thousands)


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## icenine (Aug 4, 2015)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> This is significantly more than the previous releases (hundreds vs thousands)


Ah good to know. but cool way they approached it to make it more accessible for those who genuinely just want the access to the watches at a reasonable price


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## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> This is significantly more than the previous releases (hundreds vs thousands)


Will it be a numbered piece like that other releases?
The amount this round is way more than the others


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

saru04 said:


> Will it be a numbered piece like that other releases?
> The amount this round is way more than the others


Most probably not. They said they will not disclose the number produced. That means no xxx/xxxx

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

I was in the first round of orders for Ming owners and they said to expect my burgundy at the end of August.



RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Most probably not. They said they will not disclose the number produced. That means no xxx/xxxx
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here's what they said in that email:


*Can I request a specific serial number?*
We are unable to accommodate requests for specific serial number as watches are produced with sequential serial numbers across all models. 


My Slate isn't numbered in terms of the release, it just has a number on it (~1500 I recall), which I guess is the overall number watch they produced since inception? Not sure.


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## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Most probably not. They said they will not disclose the number produced. That means no xxx/xxxx
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Aww man and when i thought finally i have a numbered piece


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

conrad227 said:


> I was in the first round of orders for Ming owners and they said to expect my burgundy at the end of August.
> 
> Here's what they said in that email:
> 
> ...


The number on the case back is uniquely numbered.

Yes, it is a continuous serial number since its first watch.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

PuYang said:


> For those with small wrists, you can contact Ming for a shorter strap!
> 
> I emailed them to ask about shorter straps, and here is the response:
> 
> ...


i wonder if they would do the same for larger wrists. Their strap only goes up to 8.3" and I need at least 8.5

edit- I asked and they said it's possible


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

saru04 said:


> Aww man and when i thought finally i have a numbered piece


Haha for what it's worth they've never numbered any of their production watches XX of XXX. The majority of their releases weren't technically LEs, even if they specified a production quantity. Some of their LEs aren't numbered at all (for example, the Ultra Blue was an LE of 25, but there's no special engraving on the caseback to indicate that); some of their LEs are labeled "1 of [X]" where every watch in the series is labeled 1 of X.

But yes, as noted above, all of their watches share the same series of serial numbers - it just counts up sequentially from the first watch they've made.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

Buddman said:


> I've received an email today with my estimated delivery date for Burgundy at the end of October. This is from the limited 150 allocation in the second day if the offer. Very efficient!


Good on you guys.

I've received the order confirmation email too. But my watch delivery date will be from March 2022 onwards and may take few more months to deliver my watch.

I am ok for the waiting.

Good stuff takes time after all.


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## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

yskhyr said:


> Haha for what it's worth they've never numbered any of their production watches XX of XXX. The majority of their releases weren't technically LEs, even if they specified a production quantity. Some of their LEs aren't numbered at all (for example, the Ultra Blue was an LE of 25, but there's no special engraving on the caseback to indicate that); some of their LEs are labeled "1 of [X]" where every watch in the series is labeled 1 of X.
> 
> But yes, as noted above, all of their watches share the same series of serial numbers - it just counts up sequentially from the first watch they've made.


I see i see.
No matter still glad manage to secure a piece. Been wanting one for quite a while now.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Does anyone know how accurate the movement will be? They say regulated with a 250 hour test program... What does that mean? How many seconds per day?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> Does anyone know how accurate the movement will be? They say regulated with a 250 hour test program... What does that mean? How many seconds per day?


If my 17.01 and 18.01 is any indicator, it'll be either a top grade or elabore grade movement and regulated to whatever the base movement is guaranteed for:



> *Spécial (Elabore)* - Nickel balance wheel, adjusted in 4 positions, average rate of +/-5 seconds/day, maximum deviation of 20 seconds/day in all positions, isochronism of +/-15 seconds/day.
> *Prémium (Top)* - Glucydur balance wheel, adjusted in 5 positions, average rate of +/-4 seconds/day, maximum deviation of 15 seconds/day in all positions, isochronism of +/-10 seconds/day.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> If my 17.01 and 18.01 is any indicator, it'll be either a top grade or elabore grade movement and regulated to whatever the base movement is guaranteed for:


Although it didn't say the range, on the website it says that all watches are regulated to 5 positions so will they take a Elabore grade and add another position? Have you measured your watches, what do they measure at?


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

PuYang said:


> For those with small wrists, you can contact Ming for a shorter strap!
> 
> I emailed them to ask about shorter straps, and here is the response:
> 
> ...


What is the wrist size range that would suit a short strap? Wondering if I need to ask too...


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

disco_nug said:


> What is the wrist size range that would suit a short strap? Wondering if I need to ask too...


6-7" I would guess. But their standard strap is 70/120, so should fit well on standard wrist sizes


----------



## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

disco_nug said:


> What is the wrist size range that would suit a short strap? Wondering if I need to ask too...


Their 17.09 page states: 

Will fit 160-210mm (6.1"-8.3") wrist circumference
Assuming that is with their standard 70/120mm strap.

Their shorter strap is only a total of 10mm shorter, 5mm on each end; which isn't as 'short' as I personally would like, but already better than 70/120.

Based on those measurements, I think if your wrists are 7" or smaller, you would be able to comfortably use the short strap as well I think. But if the standard strap fits your wrist, you might as well go with that for their 'intended look'.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Their 17.09 page states:
> 
> Will fit 160-210mm (6.1"-8.3") wrist circumference
> Assuming that is with their standard 70/120mm strap.
> ...


And I more flexibility as well, in case you gift it to someone or sell it.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Seems like the next massena lab collab will be with Ming. They're teasing an official announcement on the 14th of this month but all the teaser pictures suggest a Ming and are created by the same artist ming uses.


__
http://instagr.am/p/COvH2frr-fJ/


__
http://instagr.am/p/COsiWGYLnxA/


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## August West (Aug 24, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> Seems like the next massena lab collab will be with Ming. They're teasing an official announcement on the 14th of this month but all the teaser pictures suggest a Ming and are created by the same artist ming uses.
> 
> 
> __
> ...


That's funny- I noticed yesterday's post and thought "wow really taking a Ming vibe on this" but hadn't seen today's yet. Verrry interesting


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

If it is in fact with MING, I'm very curious to see it. I don't like Massena's watches one bit from a design perspective, but I love MING. So this will certainly be interesting.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> If it is in fact with MING, I'm very curious to see it. I don't like Massena's watches one bit from a design perspective, but I love MING. So this will certainly be interesting.


the blue massean unimatic collab did pretty well. I didn't think it justified the premium but the resale value clearly says otherwise.

having said that the value aspect doesn't play a factor for me other than whether or not I buy used. I don't sell so resale doesn't matter.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> the blue massean unimatic collab did pretty well. I didn't think it justified the premium but the resale value clearly says otherwise.
> 
> having said that the value aspect doesn't play a factor for me other than whether or not I buy used. I don't sell so resale doesn't matter.


I do like their collab watches, both the Unimatic and Habring turned out quite well.

I'm just not a fan of their own designs (I think that's what they are?):


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

I think it might be an alarm wrist watch... 17 series (which would go against what they said about retiring the 17 series with the 17.09, but the hangar teaser image had that 17 number), perhaps in Golden yellow? Perhaps with some hexagonal motif? Hmmm


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I do like their collab watches, both the Unimatic and Habring turned out quite well.
> 
> I'm just not a fan of their own designs (I think that's what they are?):
> View attachment 15876633
> ...


my impression is that the non-collab watches are meant to evoke older designs from other brands....so like a more expensive Dan henry. I certainly see the appeal but I don't have nostalgia for old designs that I wasn't alive to see originally.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> I think it might be an alarm wrist watch... 17 series (which would go against what they said about retiring the 17 series with the 17.09, but the hangar teaser image had that 17 number), perhaps in Golden yellow? Perhaps with some hexagonal motif? Hmmm


you're not the first person to mention alarm. Can you point me to where you are seeing this? I haven't examined the pics in too much detail (like I completely missed the #17).


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> you're not the first person to mention alarm. Can you point me to where you are seeing this? I haven't examined the pics in too much detail (like I completely missed the #17).


I lifted these from the Massena LAB Instagram account - Login • Instagram


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> you're not the first person to mention alarm. Can you point me to where you are seeing this? I haven't examined the pics in too much detail (like I completely missed the #17).


It's a cricket, which is normally associated in the watch world with an alarm, thanks to the Vulcain Cricket.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Given the new image, we know it will have a honeycomb dial, with printed indices in the crystal, similar to the 17.09.

To be honest, if this ends up being another 17 series, it will be annoying. Part of the allure of the 17.09 was that it was the last one... So to get a new 17 reference, which has a cool complication, a month after the release of the "last one"... I won't jump to that just yet though, since this is still all speculation.


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> Given the new image, we know it will have a honeycomb dial, with printed indices in the crystal, similar to the 17.09.
> 
> To be honest, if this ends up being another 17 series, it will be annoying. Part of the allure of the 17.09 was that it was the last one... So to get a new 17 reference, which has a cool complication, a month after the release of the "last one"... I won't jump to that just yet though, since this is still all speculation.


I think perhaps the timing may play a role. If it's a collab release that arrives in your hands sooner than the 17.09 then the original statement that the 17.09 is the last is still "correct", if only technically.

it could also be that the 17.09 was planned later than the collab so for all intents and purposes it is the last 17 series design.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

yellowfury said:


> I think perhaps the timing may play a role. If it's a collab release that arrives in your hands sooner than the 17.09 then the original statement that the 17.09 is the last is still "correct", if only technically.
> 
> it could also be that the 17.09 was planned later than the collab so for all intents and purposes it is the last 17 series design.


It's semantics, - going back to Ming's IG posts introducing the 17.09: "Presenting the 17.09: the *last family* of 17 series models..."

From an earlier email blast "The final chapter of the 17-series, *in several variants*, with a movement unique to us"


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> I think perhaps the timing may play a role. If it's a collab release that arrives in your hands sooner than the 17.09 then the original statement that the 17.09 is the last is still "correct", if only technically.
> 
> it could also be that the 17.09 was planned later than the collab so for all intents and purposes it is the last 17 series design.


That would be incredibly deceptive marketing. I imagine some of us jumped on the 17.09 because it was the last chance to get a 17 series. For them to now release a 17 series watch that makes their marketing only "technically correct" would be trust breaking.


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## csong91 (Dec 15, 2020)

"Making a buzz: Ming x Massena Lab collaborate to create honeycomb hotness"
The 17.09 Ming x Massena Lab is absolute honeycomb hotness


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> I do like their collab watches, both the Unimatic and Habring turned out quite well.
> 
> I'm just not a fan of their own designs (I think that's what they are?):
> View attachment 15876633
> ...


The Uni-Racer was pretty much a carbon copy of the Universal Geneve Big Eye - too tongue in cheek having regard to the 3.5k tag... still available to purchase in fact...


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

csong91 said:


> "Making a buzz: Ming x Massena Lab collaborate to create honeycomb hotness"
> The 17.09 Ming x Massena Lab is absolute honeycomb hotness
> View attachment 15881498


Was expecting not to like it since I am not a fan of Massena Lab's other stuff, but that is gorgeous in both variants.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I like them. I'm not sure I can pull off a yellow dial, but I want one.

I'm also curious to know if the covered/capped center stem will carry over to production model 17.09s too. It would be a shame if it didn't, now that we know they can do it.


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

Gotta say, these versions of the 17.09 look great! The yellow dial is my favorite, but I'm a little worried about contrast with the white hands.

I'll also say that this does make it feel like the "final" 17.09s (blue and burgundy) was now truly a marketing term of "final" since they're technically delivered after even though the orders happened before. It does feel deceptive to me. That said, I still prefer the burgundy that I'm getting and at a better price as well, but I certainly don't like the feeling that this was a potential option that I could have waited for.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Damn these look hot. Good thing I have the 17.09 blue on order so I don’t feel the need to rush.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I like them. I'm not sure I can pull off a yellow dial, but I want one.
> 
> I'm also curious to know if the covered/capped center stem will carry over to production model 17.09s too. It would be a shame if it didn't, now that we know they can do it.


Yeah, the covered stem looks really nice! Way better than the blue and Burgundy uncovered stems.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

These look quite good to me. The only thing I don't like about them is the MLab branding at the 9 o'clock.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

beefeater said:


> I'll also say that this does make it feel like the "final" 17.09s (blue and burgundy) was now truly a marketing term of "final" since they're technically delivered after even though the orders happened before. It does feel deceptive to me. That said, I still prefer the burgundy that I'm getting and at a better price as well, but I certainly don't like the feeling that this was a potential option that I could have waited for.


I don't understand what your question/doubt is, they said the 17.09 would be the final version of the 17 line, and this collaboration is part of the 17.09 model.

They never said there would only be two models of the 17.09.


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

jmariorebelo said:


> I don't understand what your question/doubt is, they said the 17.09 would be the final version of the 17 line, and this collaboration is part of the 17.09 model.
> 
> They never said there would only be two models of the 17.09.


I think the implication was that the blue and burgundy versions were the totality of the 17.09 models and the last of the 17 line. The interpretation, and obviously this was the way that I along with others interpreted it, was that there would be no more 17s after the blue and burgundy 17.09.

Just a few example of others that have interpreted this. First from watchesbysjx, where they noted:

"After four eventful years - which included the 17.03 GMT and the 17.06 - Ming is closing the 17-series with one final model, the 17.09, a time-only wristwatch in blue or burgundy with an independently-adjustable hour hand."









Ming’s 17-Series Takes a Final Bow | SJX Watches


With the 17.09.




watchesbysjx.com





And here's Fratello:

"The MING 17.09 is here and like some of the brand's prior releases, it comes in two flavors. It also marks the end of an era because this will be the last of the 17 series of watches."









The MING 17.09 Brings Two Flavors And A New Ordering Process!


We're always ready for a new MING release and today just happens to be the day. The new MING 17.09 is the last of the well-loved 17 series and it brings




www.fratellowatches.com





Of course, in reading through the email that I have from Ming, they only note that the 17.09 would be the last production release, but they did not make it as crystal clear that the blue and burgundy would be the only ones. Sure, that's on me for not reading it with the loosest interpretation possible, but when they continually claim "last" and "final", it reads as these are your last chances, which obviously it's not.

All this said, I'm not particularly angry or upset about this. I got the burgundy one that I wanted, and I'm not particularly concerned with whether it's the first, the last, or the middle. But I do think that interpretation that I had that it was the "last", and the fact that it's not really the last harms their brand.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

The yellow looks very nice and unique... but not a dial color I would want to wear. The black doesn't look as nice (at least in those photos), the honeycomb is almost TOO strong on the black.

My favourite part about these models is the numerals (something I wish the other 17.09s had). But like someone else mentioned, the Mlab logo totally ruins the watch for me xD

All in all, these models look fun and fresh, but I'd choose the burgundy/blue 17.09s over these 2 any day.

EDIT:
on the subject of the end of 17.09s, I personally wasn't bothered by these 2 new releases.

However, to go to the other extreme, if they now continue to release more and more 17.09s, I think that will anger a lot of people. "Technically, they are still 17.09, and 17.09 is the last of the 17 series" argument still works, but seems very distasteful.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

PuYang said:


> EDIT:
> on the subject of the end of 17.09s, I personally wasn't bothered by these 2 new releases.
> 
> However, to go to the other extreme, if they now continue to release more and more 17.09s, I think that will anger a lot of people. "Technically, they are still 17.09, and 17.09 is the last of the 17 series" argument still works, but seems very distasteful.


Distasteful yes, but also technically correct. Ming aren't our friends, they're a business and we're the costumers. These tactics leads to more sales so it's to be expected.

And yet, they're still behaving more "ethically correct" than most of the industry...


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

It doesn't matter if "technically" or not , these are the last "17 series" or not. Will it be ok if they call it with a new # ?
Are they going to only keep releasing very similar looking watches ? That's what I am interested in and worried about. Yes there are couple of companies that gets away with very similar products year in year out, Ming is not one of them!


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

The honey dial looks really nice. I don't think I will go for this one, but kind of concerned about the unclear messaging regarding the "final" 17.xx. Coupled with the insanely creative 1-year dial color change of the Kurono Toki, I am starting to think that the microbrands are losing their halo. Absolute profit corrupts absolutely?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I like them. I'm not sure I can pull off a yellow dial, but I want one.
> 
> I'm also curious to know if the covered/capped center stem will carry over to production model 17.09s too. It would be a shame if it didn't, now that we know they can do it.


Off-topic, but would love to see your review of a SUF 180. I know many consider it a cash grab from Stepan Sarpaneva, but it's one of the watches that need to be experienced in person. Its rugged charm, well-executed dial, well-machined case (for the price), and precision of element positioning (take note of the lengths of the minute and hour hands) might be to your liking.


----------



## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

jmariorebelo said:


> Distasteful yes, but also technically correct. Ming aren't our friends, they're a business and we're the costumers. These tactics leads to more sales so it's to be expected.
> 
> And yet, they're still behaving more "ethically correct" than most of the industry...


Well, there are too many variables for me to personally care. But just throwing thoughts out there:


I PERSONALLY don't care if they keep releasing 17 series watches. I wanted a 'affordable' Ming, and I got that in the 17.09. I have no plans to sell it, so 'value' / 'supply', etc don't matter to me.
I do think it is in bad form for them to continue releasing more and more 17.09 variations. But again, this doesn't affect ME personally. I'm sure there will be a demographic that will be angered though, so for their sake, I will say it is a BAD idea for Ming to continue making more 17.09s.



yadel said:


> It doesn't matter if "technically" or not , these are the last "17 series" or not. Will it be ok if they call it with a new # ?
> Are they going to only keep releasing very similar looking watches ? That's what I am interested in and worried about. Yes there are couple of companies that gets away with very similar products year in year out, Ming is not one of them!


"What if they release the same watch, but gave it a different number?"

This becomes an interesting question. If they made the exact same watches (case, indexes etched into crystal, same movement, etc), but gave them a new number, that would be a loophole that they can exploit.

Is it fair for them to do that? Sure, why not? Afterall, it would be silly to expect them to not reuse this new movement that was developed for the 17.09s.

But that WILL rub SOME (not all) collectors off the wrong way.

Lastly, Ming has constantly stated they like to move on to NEW things. They use that as an excuse to never revive a previous model, or do the same thing twice. So I would expect them to cut off the 17.09 SOONER than later, and move on to another model that CAN BE very similar (and use the same movement).

EDIT: I also want to add that this collab was probably in the works LONG ago (at least, probably in development along with the other 17.09s). So, it also isn't too 'sudden' or strange that they released a few more 17.09 variations. The question now is if we will continue to see more and more 17.09 variations (I doubt it, and hope not), that were NOT already in development.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Off-topic, but would love to see your review of a SUF 180. I know many consider it a cash grab from Stepan Sarpaneva, but it's one of the watches that need to be experienced in person. Its rugged charm, well-executed dial, well-machined case (for the price), and precision of element positioning (take note of the lengths of the minute and hour hands) might be to your liking.


Funny you mention that, as I've had a frosted salmon 180 sitting in my cart for the last week. I love how it looks, and the dial looks stunning, but I haven't been able to get myself to see that order through just yet.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Funny you mention that, as I've had a frosted salmon 180 sitting in my cart for the last week. I love how it looks, and the dial looks stunning, but I haven't been able to get myself to see that order through just yet.


Just a data point for you, I estimate there are less than 10 frosted salmon left. I got mine 2 weeks ago and my number is the high 3x/51. But I think you won't be disappointed. I might be biased, as I grew up in Eastern Europe, so can more easily understand the "spirit" of the design, but I do think it offers a rare experience that is not fully evident from the pictures.


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## Silvek (Nov 22, 2018)

The text on the MLab website suggests that it's an LE of 150 units, but pictures suggest otherwise. Which is it?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Silvek said:


> The text on the MLab website suggests that it's an LE of 150 units, but pictures suggest otherwise. Which is it?
> 
> View attachment 15882321


50 honey color, 150 black.


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## Silvek (Nov 22, 2018)

Also, the fact that these units are shipping end of July makes me think that Ming will be prioritizing the production of these watches over the blue/burgundy 17.09. I suspect that they may have actually planned this ahead of the blue/burgundy release.


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## Silvek (Nov 22, 2018)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> 50 honey color, 150 black.


Interesting. I would have expected the numbering on the Honey to be xx of 50, and the numbering on the black to be xxx of 150 vs. aggregating the amount across the two variants.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Silvek said:


> Interesting. I would have expected the numbering on the Honey to be xx of 50, and the numbering on the black to be xxx of 150 vs. aggregating the amount across the two variants.


Yeah, a bit odd. Might hurt the resale value of Honey.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

Also what is the purpose of this so called massena lab collaboration? What did Massena lab contribute? A logo at 9'clock? I don't see any design contribution so what is it? A subcontractor to produce some more watch for Ming cause Ming is at its production capacity?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yadel said:


> Also what is the purpose of this so called massena lab collaboration? What did Massena lab contribute? A logo at 9'clock? I don't see any design contribution so what is it? A subcontractor to produce some more watch for Ming cause Ming is at its production capacity?


Maybe they came up with the Honeycomb design


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yadel said:


> Also what is the purpose of this so called massena lab collaboration? What did Massena lab contribute? A logo at 9'clock? I don't see any design contribution so what is it? A subcontractor to produce some more watch for Ming cause Ming is at its production capacity?


Schwarz Etienne continues to build these watches, so no subcontracting of manufacturing as far as I can tell.

It is a *design* collaboration, so I suspect Massena LAB came up with the honeycomb idea, color scheme and picked the old numerals instead of the modern hour markers.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

Sorry Guys that's not enough for me . It is not a good move from Ming.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Maybe I am not understanding this correctly, but this is a collaboration, and the watch will be sold exclusively by Massena Lab. So why are some people treating this like a 100% Ming product? No doubt there are Ming influences in the watch’s design, but it does appear strange to make claims such as Ming was less than upfront when their last release a month ago was supposed to be the last of 17.09 … Whether Ming should be collaborating with Massena Lab in the first place, I am not well-informed enough to offer any opinions though.

My 2 cents.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

I personally like both of them and don't have an issue with more 17.09s. I am perplexed at the pricing scheme though - what makes these more expensive than the production 17.09s? Why is the honey more expensive than the black?


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## GregoryD (Jan 31, 2009)

I like these both a lot, probably like the black dial a little more. Not enough to buy one, but still a great effort.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Maybe I am not understanding this correctly, but this is a collaboration, and the watch will be sold exclusively by Massena Lab. So why are some people treating this like a 100% Ming product? No doubt there are Ming influences in the watch's design, but it does appear strange to make claims such as Ming was less than upfront when their last release a month ago was supposed to be the last of 17.09 &#8230; Whether Ming should be collaborating with Massena Lab in the first place, I am not well-informed enough to offer any opinions though.
> 
> My 2 cents.


Yeah, but a cursory glance would tell you that the whole watch is made by Ming suppliers. So Massena Lab chimed in with a few ideas at best. Not saying they shouldn't do this, but they should not have claimed the 17.09 was the last 17.xx.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

monsters said:


> I personally like both of them and don't have an issue with more 17.09s. I am perplexed at the pricing scheme though - what makes these more expensive than the production 17.09s? Why is the honey more expensive than the black?


Massena sells these, they probably ordered them from Ming, which adds a "middle man" -> raising the price. Why yellow more expensive than black... Well...The same reason Sub with the green bezel is more expensive than normal Sub.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

beefeater said:


> Of course, in reading through the email that I have from Ming, they only note that the 17.09 would be the last production release, but they did not make it as crystal clear that the blue and burgundy would be the only ones. Sure, that's on me for not reading it with the loosest interpretation possible, but when they continually claim "last" and "final", it reads as these are your last chances, which obviously it's not.


Totally. If you're implying this is the last chance to get a 17 series, either tell me all of the options to get a 17 series in the future (option A now, option B in a month, option C in 6 months, etc) or make this the actual last chance.

To be fair with Ming:


they did say that "These variants of the 17.09 will be discontinued", alluding that there could be more variants.
@magnusbosse in the April 12th post announcing the 17.09 said: "So here we are with what we consider a first goodbye to our foundational 17 series".
I did read both before ordering. One could argue the mangusbosse post is surely not an official Ming communications channel, but I did read it when it was posted. I still think both messages were too subtle for me to register that there were indeed more variants being released.



yadel said:


> It doesn't matter if "technically" or not , these are the last "17 series" or not. Will it be ok if they call it with a new # ?


I think one of the things at the crux of whether you're displeased or not by this release is what you consider a reference number.

Imagine if this had been released as reference 17.10. Ming could claim it's a 17 series (shares some things with the 17.09 like case and hands) but it's a new model (different dial pattern, colors, numerals, and sales stream via Massena Labs). I think the general consensus wouldn't have been complaining that this is "the same reference" as the 17.09 even if perhaps a minority could argue that they should be indeed the same ref. Now, they could not possibly have done this since they said the 17.09 was the last reference in the 17 series, so releasing as a different reference was out of the question.

What they did was to release this new 17.09 that is clearly different from the blue and burgundy 17.09s. Are they similar enough that people can understand it's the same reference? Perhaps to some. Can people accept that with a loose interpretation of the communication from Ming and co. one could see another release coming? Sure.

That said, I think they could have skirted all this criticism had they just called this reference MM.01 or something like that. It would be a Massena x Ming watch (MM), released for a premium over the 17 series even though it shares components but it's different enough to justify the premium and the different reference number. I think people would've felt that it was indeed the last chance to get a 17.09 with the burgundy and blue variants if they had done this.

Now, this is all semantics and points of view. At the end of the day, they released a new watch that is different and more expensive, whatever the ref number on the back of it.

I bought my 17.09 to keep and liked its design and price enough that I think I would have chosen the blue one out of the four 17.09s released (even though the new black honeycomb dial could have been a real contender...), so I don't care too much about all of this.

However, it does feel a little deceptive, even if by mistake, and nobody likes being deceived. Won't turn me off from the brand, but a lesson in marketing or PR to be had around all of this perhaps?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> Totally. If you're implying this is the last chance to get a 17 series, either tell me all of the options to get a 17 series in the future (option A now, option B in a month, option C in 6 months, etc) or make this the actual last chance.
> 
> To be fair with Ming:
> 
> ...


Fully agree with this^. However, I would have preferred for the Collab to be "more different". There can be recognizable Ming design cues, floating numerals or curved lugs. But to have what is essentially a Ming watch with a different dial pattern as a collab... I can understand people who ask what Massena has contributed besides the logo.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Fully agree with this^. However, I would have preferred for the Collab to be "more different". There can be recognizable Ming design cues, floating numerals or curved lugs. But to have what is essentially a Ming watch with a different dial pattern as a collab... I can understand people who ask what Massena has contributed besides the logo.


Based on what the Massena LAB releases as their original designs, I'm glad they didn't do more ? ?

This is very much in line with what they did with Unimatic and Habring, and I like it. Its just a little bit outside MING's own design comfort zone, but not drastic enough to change the design style.


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## wagoss122 (May 23, 2018)

Ballsy move by a growing microbrand with lots of momentum to play these loopholes in deceptive marketing tactics and“technicalities in language. Right or wrong in the intent of the wording, it’s certainly deceptive (especially considering the press/articles advertised on their own website) and a good way to kill brand trust going forward. Dare I say it reeks of a money grab from get rich quick entrepreneurs trying to get theirs while the gettings good right now. Particularly disappointing to release these just weeks later while 17.09 blue/burgundy buyers are stuck with a non-refundable deposit. MING needs to do some damage control or I’m totally out on this brand.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

wagoss122 said:


> Ballsy move by a growing microbrand with lots of momentum to play these loopholes in deceptive marketing tactics and"technicalities in language. Right or wrong in the intent of the wording, it's certainly deceptive (especially considering the press/articles advertised on their own website) and a good way to kill brand trust going forward. Dare I say it reeks of a money grab from get rich quick entrepreneurs trying to get theirs while the gettings good right now. Particularly disappointing to release these just weeks later while 17.09 blue/burgundy buyers are stuck with a non-refundable deposit. MING needs to do some damage control or I'm totally out on this brand.


Curious... What damage control do you have in mind?

We already know what their stance is:


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## wagoss122 (May 23, 2018)

Clarifying their intent behind marketing this with the press, IG, youtubers, as the last of the 17 series. Sure, they can say they "specifically said burgundy and blue" or the "beginning of the end".... in that same vein then I'll say they could just use that language for decades. The 17.09 is "last of the series" while they release every color/dial pattern/hue/tint scheme on the rainbow palette to their hearts desire in the "17.09" series. There's plenty of responses from this Honey release to show that mass confusion about the discontinued messaging is misleading. So if you want my 2 cents, the only damage control I'd be happy with is them clarifying that they are not releasing any more 17.09s and it's the actual end of the line. I'm not thrilled that my money is tied up for a year on a nonrefundable deposit while they can "technically" release more 17.09 dials that I may/may not prefer and could possibly get sooner. It's just messed up, man.


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## poneglyph (Dec 23, 2012)

I, like many, thought that the blue & burgundy 17.09 were the last of the 17 series. 

Got to read more deeply into the Ming's phrasing in future. Play of word much?


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## X-va (Sep 27, 2017)

Straight from the horse's mouth/Instagram. No 'damage control' here. The first screenshot appears to suggest that there might be even more versions of the 17.09 after this. However, The pinion cap is a positive development.


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## poneglyph (Dec 23, 2012)

X-va said:


> View attachment 15883123
> 
> View attachment 15883124
> 
> Straight from the horse's mouth/Instagram. No 'damage control' here. The first screenshot appears to suggest that there might be even more versions of the 17.09 after this. However, The pinion cap is a positive development.


Looks like the Honey Ming may not be the last chance at 17.09 either. More interesting variants upcoming, perhaps an even earlier delivery than the time limited batch?

Also, I was under the impression that the 17.09 has open pinion by design.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

poneglyph said:


> Looks like the Honey Ming may not be the last chance at 17.09 either. More interesting variants upcoming, perhaps an even earlier delivery than the time limited batch?
> 
> Also, I was under the impression that the 17.09 has open pinion by design.


Ming Thein did say that the open pinion was meant to serve as the starting point for radial symmetry. Not anymore I guess... Nothing wrong with more 17.09s in my opinion, but would have appreciated better communication from the brand. I went with the Burgundy and don't regret it, but might have waited for the Honey if I knew beforehand.


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## calbear13 (Jun 24, 2013)

Oof. Really enjoy Ming's design aesthetic-but I'm glad I didn't go for the timed release now. Not only will these new variants that were just announced be delivered before the timed blue/burgundy releases but they will be delivered before the first limited batch that was available to the wider public which had a limited run and were promised for October. Yowzers.

Not to mention the price of the 17 series has now _doubled _in only two releases since the copper GPGH winner.

But you get an independently adjustable hour hand for your money when you travel even though the watch has no running seconds so it doesn't really matter if you hack the movement anyway.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOF.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

calbear13 said:


> Not to mention the price of the 17 series has now _doubled _in only two releases since the copper GPGH winner.


The watches were selling for twice msrp used, so Ming are doing the right thing. As Farer puts it, "our job is to keep demand just ahead of production". People pay the price, so all's well. Rolex should do the same, if people pay 30k for a _used_ Daytona, why not sell them new for 25 instead of 12?

As for the 17.09 being a series, it seems most people read want they wanted to be true and not what was there.

For all the problems I have with ming and the way they conduct business, I see absolutely nothing wrong here.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Silvek said:


> Also, the fact that these units are shipping end of July makes me think that Ming will be prioritizing the production of these watches over the blue/burgundy 17.09. I suspect that they may have actually planned this ahead of the blue/burgundy release.


Yeah I agree with this. It was probably planned in parallel to the 17.09 so I think its ok as long as there isn't yet ANOTHER 17.09 with a different pattern say 6 months away (collab or not)

Also these are way more expensive than blue/burg so there's always that as well


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## wagoss122 (May 23, 2018)

So the dial of "THE 17.09" is no longer NOW just a two piece affair but rather any variation they plan on doing such as honeycomb, etc and any color scheme they want. What makes "THE 17.09" a 17.09 I ask? That's my annoyance with the deception. If they were honest instead of insinuating we are just poor readers they would say "this VARIATION of the last of the 17.09 series now comes in a two piece affair yada yada yada in Blue and Burgundy. They played up this last model stuff to drive demand, publicity, and build capital. No. it's still not sitting well with me.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Just curious - for those people complaining about deception, dishonesty or bad communications on Ming’s part, would you have ordered your blue or burgundy 17.09 if you had known about this Massena Lab collaboration beforehand? I know I would have gone ahead to place an order since it is practically guaranteed I will not be able to get a piece of this very limited collaboration.


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## calbear13 (Jun 24, 2013)

jmariorebelo said:


> The watches were selling for twice msrp used, so Ming are doing the right thing.


Zero issues with a manufacturer setting a price they want. The hype that was generated for the 17 series at its initial offering price has spilled over into a watch that's now almost 3x what the 17.01 was-and the production run is so limited that there's still enough hype left over where that 3x price will still sell out. All of this was generated from that first initial wow moment of, "This watch is only $900? Cool! Oh I can't get one anymore, when's the next one out?"Somewhere down the road we're (maybe?) going to get to the point when whatever base model comes out at $4,500+ whether the hype of the original $900 watch (which there were only 300 of) got us here or if these really are better than a readily available higher end Nomos, Tudor, used JLC, etc etc.


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## wagoss122 (May 23, 2018)

Raindrops said:


> Just curious - for those people complaining about deception, dishonesty or bad communications on Ming's part, would you have ordered your blue or burgundy 17.09 if you had known about this Massena Lab collaboration beforehand? I know I would have gone ahead to place an order since it is practically guaranteed I will not be able to get a piece of this very limited collaboration.


I would not have ordered it. 1) now I have to see other variants come out that I might have liked better while I provide an interest free loan for a year 2) those other more limited 17.09s will likely be in the hands of others sooner.

The uniqueness will be (already is) diluted by however many variations they want to do until the actual FINAL edition is revealed in the year (fill in the blank).


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

Raindrops said:


> Just curious - for those people complaining about deception, dishonesty or bad communications on Ming's part, would you have ordered your blue or burgundy 17.09 if you had known about this Massena Lab collaboration beforehand? I know I would have gone ahead to place an order since it is practically guaranteed I will not be able to get a piece of this very limited collaboration.


I would have still ordered the burgundy given the now 4 iterations. My behavior would not have changed. I'm really looking forward to it for the combination of design, color, and functionality.

But, will I be more cautious in the future about a Ming release - absolutely. The reality is that few like the "feeling" of deception. And luxury watches are all about feeling. It's a business to them, but it's an emotional hobby for me. Ignore that at your peril.


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

beefeater said:


> I would have still ordered the burgundy given the now 4 iterations. My behavior would not have changed. I'm really looking forward to it for the combination of design, color, and functionality.
> 
> But, will I be more cautious in the future about a Ming release - absolutely. The reality is that few like the "feeling" of deception. And luxury watches are all about feeling. It's a business to them, but it's an emotional hobby for me. Ignore that at your peril.


Ditto


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

wagoss122 said:


> View attachment 15883665
> 
> 
> So the dial of "THE 17.09" is no longer NOW just a two piece affair but rather any variation they plan on doing such as honeycomb, etc and any color scheme they want.


The "dial is a two piece affair" means that it is made of two different parts assembled together, not that there are only two colourways....


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## wagoss122 (May 23, 2018)

jmariorebelo said:


> The "dial is a two piece affair" means that it is made of two different parts assembled together, not that there are only two colourways....





jmariorebelo said:


> The "dial is a two piece affair" means that it is made of two different parts assembled together, not that there are only two colourways....


I'm referring to the Clois de Paris dial in the next statement. Additionally the past tense of "carried" to drive home the finality. Avoidance of using the word "variation" in all marketing and press. It's all good... well played. Fool me once they say. Now let's all enjoy the farewell tour for this classic series and historied brand.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

calbear13 said:


> Zero issues with a manufacturer setting a price they want. The hype that was generated for the 17 series at its initial offering price has spilled over into a watch that's now almost 3x what the 17.01 was-and the production run is so limited that there's still enough hype left over where that 3x price will still sell out. All of this was generated from that first initial wow moment of, "This watch is only $900? Cool! Oh I can't get one anymore, when's the next one out?"Somewhere down the road we're (maybe?) going to get to the point when whatever base model comes out at $4,500+ whether the hype of the original $900 watch (which there were only 300 of) got us here or if these really are better than a readily available higher end Nomos, Tudor, used JLC, etc etc.


And that, I think, is why Rolex doesn't raise MSRP. It was the value watch, gained hype as a "serious watch for serious people", and now is still carried on that hype. People look at it and go "wow, that's not too expensive, I need to figure out how to get that". If the Daytona costs $40k MSRP, it will follow Frank Muller into the scrap pile of "this **** costs THAT much?"


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## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

Raindrops said:


> Just curious - for those people complaining about deception, dishonesty or bad communications on Ming's part, would you have ordered your blue or burgundy 17.09 if you had known about this Massena Lab collaboration beforehand? I know I would have gone ahead to place an order since it is practically guaranteed I will not be able to get a piece of this very limited collaboration.


If I had known about this collab? Hell yeah, I still would have bought the blue 17.09. Reasons:

1. Blue dial looks better than the black or yellow.
2. 2340 CHF > 1950 CHF
3. Limited run means this would have vanished in 30 seconds
4. Most importantly, this honeycomb dial sets off my mild trypophobia


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Same.. the whole 'semantic trap' does not bother me in the slightest. To me these watches look nothing alike, and I think the hour marker design is much more cohesive on the production 17.09s. I don't like the disconnected floating Arabic numerals as much, and the two logos on either side just work against bringing those numerals together in some contiguous pattern to me. I do love the honeycomb dial section though, and their choice of yellow is wonderful. If they released 1000 of the standard 17.09s in that yellow for Massena LAB, then I might've got a bit annoyed.


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

CyanideAndHappiness said:


> 4. Most importantly, this honeycomb dial sets off my mild trypophobia


I learned a new word and meaning today. Thanks.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

True limited runs are important factor when deciding to buy a certain model and this is not a small mistake to make, definitely erodes some trust.
Still I might have given them a pass for the misleading language , if they didn't go ahead and did something which might dilute the value of their brand as well.
With all due respect to Massena Lab fans , what was the benefit for Ming to "collaborate" with this brand. When did Massena Lab become as popular as Ming? Have they ever produced a unique design that was as popular as Ming?. Any awards like GPHG? Do they have in house movements? Do they enjoy great second hand value?
If they really have to collaborate with someone, Ming should aim to collaborate brands like Kurono Tokyo etc. something unique ,


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Raindrops said:


> Just curious - for those people complaining about deception, dishonesty or bad communications on Ming's part, would you have ordered your blue or burgundy 17.09 if you had known about this Massena Lab collaboration beforehand? I know I would have gone ahead to place an order since it is practically guaranteed I will not be able to get a piece of this very limited collaboration.


I like it, but it in the end I find the original design more cohesive, the "O" plus the skinnier arabic numerals plus the two logos make it all feel a little disjointed in the end and on top of that its a 25% premium (at least) over the original.

After thinking about it a while, I do hope there will be another 17 series in limited quantities but for even more money...3K CHF etc..


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Does anyone understand the reply? What is a private edition? And I think the two sentences contradict each other: yes more private editions but no more public or private editions?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> Does anyone understand the reply? What is a private edition? And I think the two sentences contradict each other: yes more private editions but no more public or private editions?


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

horolo_gy said:


> Does anyone understand the reply? What is a private edition?


Maybe a private edition is something like this?









MING 17.06 Special Edition


Private & Confidential Dear Josh, Please checkout below to confirm your order for a MING 17.06 Special Edition as discussed via e-mail. There are a few more pictures for you to check out the watch before confirming. Please note that the actual strap that will come with the watch is a Black...




ming.watch


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Drebs said:


> Maybe a private edition is something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I assume it will be some special editions for collectors and long-time brand supporters


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Just got a reply









It sounds like special editions or internal editions then.

We shouldn't expect another public variant of the 17.09 then.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Hope they are also more expensive just like that example that someone else posted


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Massena lab website is down...


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

Massena sight blown up


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## alinla (Jun 15, 2019)

Well who could've predicted that?


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

alinla said:


> Well who could've predicted that?


they should really reschedule the launch now...


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

They need to replan the launch and switch the launch to Ming infrastructure. Massena can't handle it.


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## ms55 (Jan 31, 2017)

Drebs said:


> They need to replan the launch and switch the launch to Ming infrastructure. Massena can't handle it.


Agreed. Huge failure on their part.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Folks will be even more angry if the watches are for sale once the website goes back up since they didn't get a fair shot at buying them.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Still not postponed at this point...


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

Masena Lab "collaboration" .what a joke!


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

yadel said:


> Masena Lab "collaboration" .what a joke!


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## ms55 (Jan 31, 2017)

They posted to IG: trying again same time tomorrow (Friday).


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

Broken again


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

Just move the launch to Ming's site and be done with it, like I said yesterday.


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## yngrshr (Dec 6, 2014)

Lol, what an absolute ****-up this launch has been.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

And this fallback to an email-based raffle is a sh*tshow. It's going to make it even easier for scalpers to overflow them with submissions and have much more chances to cop.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

guillelle said:


> And this fallback to an email-based raffle is a sh*tshow. It's going to make it even easier for scalpers to overflow them with submissions and have much more chances to cop.


Agreed. Do you really buy the DDoS attacks? If there were really some malicious folk out there, wouldn't they just spam the email address that Massena shared with a hundred thousand emails?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> Agreed. Do you really buy the DDoS attacks? If there were really some malicious folk out there, wouldn't they just spam the email address that Massena shared with a hundred thousand emails?


I think the DDoS story is complete BS. I guess this kind of confirms the dubious value Ming is getting from this collab.


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

I actually don't think the DDoS is BS. Why do you think it is?


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Drebs said:


> I actually don't think the DDoS is BS. Why do you think it is?


Because I don't believe there are bad actors in the watch community trying to sabotage someone's watch sale. And if there were, why would they target Massena Lab and not the Chrono Tokyo sale at the same time, or previous MING sales?

Also, if they were really worried about bad actors, the bad actors could pretty easily ruin their lottery style sale, too, by spamming them with lots of emails so they don't know who legitimate buyers are. I don't know much about DDoS attacks, but it seems easier to undermine the integrity of a lottery sale that is conducted through an email registration by sending lots of spam emails to that email address then it does to organize an attack on a whole website. But least with a lottery sale they can save face because they can now allot the watches to whomever they want to without any transparency, rather than actually trying to put them up on a website and giving everyone a crack at buying one.

I'm not saying that they will necessarily do that, but they could if their email gets spammed (because we won't know) and they don't want to admit that they blew that, too.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Drebs said:


> I actually don't think the DDoS is BS. Why do you think it is?


Because it sounds too much like "a dog ate my homework". Who cares enough to ddos Massena (and not Ming, Kurono, Halios)? What's the motivation? Saw people speculating on IG it's "previous forum enemies of William Massena"... really guys?

With that said, good luck to everyone on the lottery! Pretty messed up launch, but it's still a Ming - very well-designed watch at a decent price.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I don't not believe it is a DDoS attack. But I think it doesn't matter any more. Between yesterday (not a DDoS attack) and today (a DDoS attack?), it is clear that Massena Labs were not prepared for this magnitude of attention. And that is the only thing I would fault them for, because... well.. it is a Ming watch, and Ming brings the heat. We all know this.

While the lottery is equally prone to compromise, maybe some kind of vetted lottery system is the way to go for smaller drops like this. I'd rather not waste an hour of my time in a futile attempt to be given the privilege of spending my money.... if I'm lucky.


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

conrad227 said:


> Because I don't believe there are bad actors in the watch community trying to sabotage someone's watch sale.


I don't think you have to believe in a watch industry conspiracy to believe the attack occurred.


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## EekTheCat (Feb 21, 2021)

Man, what a ****storm. I'm just glad Kurono Toki went through undisturbed. Seriously, why didn't they just stick to the usual framework of time limited or used the Ming infrastructure to go about? DDoS? Really?


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Drebs said:


> I don't think you have to believe in a watch industry conspiracy to believe the attack occurred.


hmm, i hadn't even considered that there was some kind of conspiracy.

i had just assumed that massena was suggesting that there were some jerks out there trying to aggressively troll massena and by extension watch fanatics who (like me) woke up in the middle of the night (twice) to try to buy a watch by shutting down Massena's website. and for me I just can't imagine that level of troll existing in our community. but maybe i am wrong.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

EekTheCat said:


> Man, what a ****storm. I'm just glad Kurono Toki went through undisturbed. Seriously, why didn't they just stick to the usual framework of time limited or used the Ming infrastructure to go about? DDoS? Really?


I don't think they can do limited as production is probably handled by Ming, who only promised them a production of 200 pieces. So they can't do limited time - unlimited quantity. But yes, they could have used the same infrastructure Ming is using (Shopify?)

On a side note, I am surprised how prevalent Shopify is. Been holding some shares since the stock was below $100, the Company came a long way.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EekTheCat (Feb 21, 2021)

I noticed Kurono Tokyo had a similar checkout layout, probably Shopify too. And u got it for sub 100 bucks? Das goooooooood!


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

EekTheCat said:


> I noticed Kurono Tokyo had a similar checkout layout, probably Shopify too. And u got it for sub 100 bucks? Das goooooooood!


Yeah, Kurono uses Shopify too. Yeah, that's probably the best investment decision I made. Wanted exposure to e-commerce, but Amazon was too overpriced. Pity I sold most of my SHOP position too early haha


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Kurono Tokyo and Ming use Shopify. Kurono has mentioned in his blogs that Shopify can handle thousands of transactions/minute or something like that which I believe is true. As long as you pay them, you'll be fine. I know a few big e-commerce store that uses Shopify as well. As shown in their Toki release, both kurono and shopify learned something from the Mori release.

From my quick check, Massena Lab uses WooCommerce + WordPress and it's hosted by SiteGround(?). SiteGround has been one of the slowest providers lately and I don't know what plan they are in. They were once considered as a good hosting company but is now one of the slowest. I highly doubt as well that it's DDoS. Happy to be corrected on hosting. WooCommerce, though not to blame, would probably have issues with stock levels of this traffic if the site worked. Pair SiteGround, WooCommerce with that amount of traffic and you're asking for trouble.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

They used Cloudflare for DDoS protection, and it was clearly working. The issues came after passing the Cloudflare test as timeouts and server errors. I know Cloudflare is not 100% reliable, but to think that someone would spend the money and resources needed to beat Cloudflare out of animosity or trolling is just laughable. 

Those kind attacks only happen if someone can really profit off of them, which I can't see how would that happen in this case. 


This is just another example of "weird" messaging coming from Ming, added to the moronic email raffle solution. What a pity. My trust on the brand is eroding very fast at this point...


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

guillelle said:


> They used Cloudflare for DDoS protection, and it was clearly working. The issues came after passing the Cloudflare test as timeouts and server errors. I know Cloudflare is not 100% reliable, but to think that someone would spend the money and resources needed to beat Cloudflare out of animosity or trolling is just laughable.
> 
> Those kind attacks only happen if someone can really profit off of them, which I can't see how would that happen in this case.
> 
> This is just another example of "weird" messaging coming from Ming, added to the moronic email raffle solution. What a pity. My trust on the brand is eroding very fast at this point...


To be fair this was all hosted by MassenaLab and was not using Ming's backend, which held up for the production blue/burgundy 17.09 surge.

Team Ming seems to be taking a PR hit for Massena's site failing in this instance&#8230;

I have to assume they will ask for distribution control for future collabs after this.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

monsters said:


> To be fair this was all hosted by MassenaLab and was not using Ming's backend, which held up for the production blue/burgundy 17.09 surge.
> 
> Team Ming seems to be taking a PR hit for Massena's site failing in this instance&#8230;
> 
> I have to assume they will ask for distribution control for future collabs after this.


what was the contribution of MassenaLab to the collaboration (on top of hosting the sale)?


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

Pongster said:


> what was the contribution of MassenaLab to the collaboration (on top of hosting the sale)?


According to one of the many articles published, Massena provided the inspiration for the honeycomb design/ color choice by referencing vintage Rolexes. Logistically&#8230;.not sure what his part was.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

monsters said:


> According to one of the many articles published, Massena provided the inspiration for the honeycomb design/ color choice by referencing vintage Rolexes. Logistically&#8230;.not sure what his part was.


Massena is known for the honeycomb design?

or Massena generated this new design for the project?

still looks very Ming to me.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

Pongster said:


> Massena is known for the honeycomb design?
> 
> or Massena generated this new design for the project?
> 
> still looks very Ming to me.


Massena is known for putting a heavy vintage hand into all of his collaborations. I don't have any more information than that I have been reading from various press articles as to what his role was.

i believe the HODINKEE, fratello and worn & wound articles spoke to Massena's background and the rolexes referenced


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

monsters said:


> Massena is known for putting a heavy vintage hand into all of his collaborations. I don't have any more information than that I have been reading from various press articles as to what his role was.
> 
> i believe the HODINKEE, fratello and worn & wound articles spoke to Massena's background and the rolexes referenced


maybe not a marriage of equals


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Pongster said:


> maybe not a marriage of equals


Which makes me question Ming's motivation (or maybe I am too cynical and it's just a collab between friends/partners)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Which makes me question Ming's motivation (or maybe I am too cynical and it's just a collab between friends/partners)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


that's the sense I am getting. Apparently Ming and Massena go way back from early time zone days and have been connected for a while. Massena is a big name in his own right with his other LEs selling out at the speed of light, and him being profiled on Talking Watches


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

monsters said:


> that's the sense I am getting. Apparently Ming and Massena go way back from early time zone days and have been connected for a while. Massena is a big name in his own right with his other LEs selling out at the speed of light, and him being profiled on Talking Watches


I think Massena's stuff sell out due to the production partners they choose. Habring, Ming etc. Very well-regarded stuff.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rogco (Jan 12, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Because it sounds too much like "a dog ate my homework". Who cares enough to ddos Massena (and not Ming, Kurono, Halios)? What's the motivation? Saw people speculating on IG it's "previous forum enemies of William Massena"... really guys?
> 
> With that said, good luck to everyone on the lottery! Pretty messed up launch, but it's still a Ming - very well-designed watch at a decent price.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Didn't this happen to Halios numerous times until they got it sorted?


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

guillelle said:


> They used Cloudflare for DDoS protection, and it was clearly working. The issues came after passing the Cloudflare test as timeouts and server errors. I know Cloudflare is not 100% reliable, but to think that someone would spend the money and resources needed to beat Cloudflare out of animosity or trolling is just laughable.
> 
> Those kind attacks only happen if someone can really profit off of them, which I can't see how would that happen in this case.


I think you pretty much answered why DDoS is unlikely. Turning the "under attack mode" in CloudFlare will trigger that extra page regardless if you're being attacked or not. yes it can help a bit on illegitimate access, however as you said, the site is still incapable.

Out of curiosity, is this the first time that Ming has done a sale not on their website?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> I think you pretty much answered why DDoS is unlikely. Turning the "under attack mode" in CloudFlare will trigger that extra page regardless if you're being attacked or not. yes it can help a bit on illegitimate access, however as you said, the site is still incapable.
> 
> Out of curiosity, is this the first time that Ming has done a sale not on their website?


AFAIK, yes

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I hate to take the attention away from the DDoS attack and Massena blunder, but I got this beauty from a forum member a while ago and I'm beyond impressed. I wasn't in a position to pick up the 27.01 when it was released recently (with the 27.02), but I've been thinking about it quite often since then and drooling over pictures. I couldn't pass on this one, and I'm so glad I didn't.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I hate to take the attention away from the DDoS attack and Massena blunder, but I got this beauty from a forum member a while ago and I'm beyond impressed. I wasn't in a position to pick up the 27.01 when it was released recently (with the 27.02), but I've been thinking about it quite often since then and drooling over pictures. I couldn't pass on this one, and I'm so glad I didn't.


Oh, that's amazing! I would love to pick the 27.02 up one day. Are you comfortable sharing how much you got it for? I have no idea about the price of the 27 series on the secondary market.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Oh, that's amazing! I would love to pick the 27.02 up one day. Are you comfortable sharing how much you got it for? I have no idea about the price of the 27 series on the secondary market.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The asking prices are a minimum of $5.5k, but I suspect it'll slowly start to trickle upwards once everybody's watches are delivered and then people try to drive it up.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> The asking prices are a minimum of $5.5k, but I suspect it'll slowly start to trickle upwards once everybody's watches are delivered and then people try to drive it up.


I see, thank you for the info. That's lower than I expected (given the price performance of 17.01 and 17.06). Would be great if they stay within the 5-6k range long-term. Congrats on your 27.01!


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

This is an amazing watch.
I like collecting "micro / independent brands". Some of these micro brands are doing great things and should be supported by the watch enthusiasts. And this brand is certainly one of them like Halios, Kurono Tokyo , etc.

That's why I was so critical about their latest blunder. They don't need to carry water to other brands for nothing.

Byw considering all the work that was done to this movement they might easily call it in house . It doesn't look like any other ETA Peseux 7001 that I know. It is amazing how thin and flat the watch is with it's beautiful open display case back.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

yadel said:


> This is an amazing watch.
> I like collecting "micro / independent brands". Some of these micro brands are doing great things and should be supported by the watch enthusiasts. And this brand is certainly one of them like Halios, Kurono Tokyo , etc.
> 
> That's why I was so critical about their latest blunder. They don't need to carry water to other brands for nothing.
> ...


Can I ask why you lump in halios with ming and kurono? I've seen others do it too, but when I look at their watches, it seems to be there are several brands doing a similar style, but a Ming or a Kurono without any logo on it, you still know which brand its from.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> Can I ask why you lump in halios with ming and kurono? I've seen others do it too, but when I look at their watches, it seems to be there are several brands doing a similar style, but a Ming or a Kurono without any logo on it, you still know which brand its from.


I think these three brands are different because of a perception that they are micro brands that offer something more than "this watch punches above its weight" and "like [insert iconic design] for 20% the price". More debatable for Halios, but I do see some similarities.

Also these three are hard to get, you can't just pull the trigger whenever you want. You need to wait for the drop etc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I think these three brands are different because of a perception that they are micro brands that offer something more than "this watch punches above its weight" and "like [insert iconic design] for 20% the price". More debatable for Halios, but I do see some similarities.
> 
> Also these three are hard to get, you can't just pull the trigger whenever you want. You need to wait for the drop etc.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I see, well many Zelos you also need to wait for the drop but i'm not putting them up there. (totally regret getting a Zelos, it sits in the box totally untouched, never worn).


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I think these three brands are different because of a perception that they are micro brands that offer something more than "this watch punches above its weight" and "like [insert iconic design] for 20% the price". More debatable for Halios, but I do see some similarities.
> 
> Also these three are hard to get, you can't just pull the trigger whenever you want. You need to wait for the drop etc.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


While that is true and is what people say, I think Kurono punches exactly in it's weight class, and likely punches below. That's just my opinion from having owned 2. You're paying for the design and "story" more than the watch itself. Halios, on the other hand, certainly punches above it's weight class. But don't listen to me, I'm a rabid fanboy of Halios.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> I see, well many Zelos you also need to wait for the drop but i'm not putting them up there. (totally regret getting a Zelos, it sits in the box totally untouched, never worn).


Yeah, I wouldn't put Zelos up there, but then it is in the lower price range as far as I know.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> While that is true and is what people say, I think Kurono punches exactly in it's weight class, and likely punches below. That's just my opinion from having owned 2. You're paying for the design and "story" more than the watch itself. Halios, on the other hand, certainly punches above it's weight class. But don't listen to me, I'm a rabid fanboy of Halios.


I like your sober take on Kurono - likely derived from a lot of experience in this price range and in microbrands. But I would still ask for some elaboration on why do you think Kurono is overpriced (I read your review of the Bullseye, seems that your main complaint is about the movement). Completely agree with your take on Halios. While I don't have one (yet), but on paper, it certainly looks amazing for the price.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I like your sober take on Kurono - likely derived from a lot of experience in this price range and in microbrands. But I would still ask for some elaboration on why do you think Kurono is overpriced (I read your review of the Bullseye, seems that your main complaint is about the movement). Completely agree with your take on Halios. While I don't have one (yet), but on paper, it certainly looks amazing for the price.


The movement is a big hurdle. But I'm willing to make that compromise and say these watches go beyond the movement. But then I took a look at the dial finishing under a loupe/macro lens, and there wasn't anything exceptional there either. My Halios and Christopher Ward watches are much tidier and crisp in terms of QC. The Chronograph 1 was a big step up from the Bullseye in that department, but still not enough for me to blown away by. In exchange for Hajime's story and his great interpretation of these designs, I felt a compromise was made in terms of movement and the finer quality control details.

If you gave me a perfectionist's approach to detail on a $1800 watch equipped with a Miyota 90S5, I would gobble that up and forget about the movement in a millisecond. But that was not the case. I hope to change my mind with the Toki when it arrives. But I can't get myself to say any of these watches "punch above their weight" just yet.

Some of the particles I caught on both dials:

































Mediocre (pad?) printing on the sub-dials:









I'm sure someone will now come in saying "Have you seen this watch that costs 10x more, and also has debris and imperfections?". I'm sure that's true, and I've seen some shabby high end watches myself, but what I also see are watches with exceptional QC under $1000, and it's hard to shake that off.


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## ms55 (Jan 31, 2017)

Massena posted some details about this drawing: RANDOM DRAW PROCEDURE | Massena LAB


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

ms55 said:


> Massena posted some details about this drawing: RANDOM DRAW PROCEDURE | Massena LAB


There was a discussion on this in the post on the actual release as well.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> The movement is a big hurdle. But I'm willing to make that compromise and say these watches go beyond the movement. But then I took a look at the dial finishing under a loupe/macro lens, and there wasn't anything exceptional there either. My Halios and Christopher Ward watches are much tidier and crisp in terms of QC. The Chronograph 1 was a big step up from the Bullseye in that department, but still not enough for me to blown away by. In exchange for Hajime's story and his great interpretation of these designs, I felt a compromise was made in terms of movement and the finer quality control details.
> 
> If you gave me a perfectionist's approach to detail on a $1800 watch equipped with a Miyota 90S5, I would gobble that up and forget about the movement in a millisecond. But that was not the case. I hope to change my mind with the Toki when it arrives. But I can't get myself to say any of these watches "punch above their weight" just yet.
> 
> ...


I see. Thank you for the write-up and I think this is relevant to Ming too. I don't know why some people who scoff at paying a premium for "heritage" and "iconic" so readily accept a premium on Kurono. However, at least for me, both Ming and Kurono offer the same thing - interesting design and collection diversity for an affordable price (which I think is the reason these two brands are so popular among High-End collectors). However, I can't find myself supporting these two brands in their march to the mid-range. The Chronograph 2, for example, is at the price level where one can get a pre-owned El Primero or a Speedmaster instead. Both Kurono and Ming started at a point where they offered value, exclusivity, and design. It seems that the market (basically us) has shown that we don't care if they take away value and exclusivity. Perhaps too early to say, but isn't what's left is a design-centric (fashion?) watch?


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

golffoxtrot said:


> Can I ask why you lump in halios with ming and kurono? I've seen others do it too, but when I look at their watches, it seems to be there are several brands doing a similar style, but a Ming or a Kurono without any logo on it, you still know which brand its from.


As I stated in my message, I gave examples of some "micro brands" that are doing great job releasing very commendable pieces (and I definitely put Halios in that group). Ming, Halios and up to some level Kuruno deserves the hype they are getting at the moment. Halios finish, case design, dial, bracelet and overall package is way above their asking price. I can't say the same thing for some of the Kuruno Tokyo models but models like "Mori" have that "extra flair"
I also would agree that out of that three, Ming has a very recognizable distinct design language.

I own couple of Zelos too. Some of their models are not my cup of tea as well , some are great VS their price point. But I wouldn't put Zelos in the same group.

To wrap up, very unique design is not important alone to make a watch praisable , otherwise the watch below would sell more than $14


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

singularityseven said:


> I hate to take the attention away from the DDoS attack and Massena blunder, but I got this beauty from a forum member a while ago and I'm beyond impressed. I wasn't in a position to pick up the 27.01 when it was released recently (with the 27.02), but I've been thinking about it quite often since then and drooling over pictures. I couldn't pass on this one, and I'm so glad I didn't.


Nice! What are your first impressions compared to the other Mings you've owned?


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I see. Thank you for the write-up and I think this is relevant to Ming too. I don't know why some people who scoff at paying a premium for "heritage" and "iconic" so readily accept a premium on Kurono. However, at least for me, both Ming and Kurono offer the same thing - interesting design and collection diversity for an affordable price (which I think is the reason these two brands are so popular among High-End collectors). However, I can't find myself supporting these two brands in their march to the mid-range. The Chronograph 2, for example, is at the price level where one can get a pre-owned El Primero or a Speedmaster instead. Both Kurono and Ming started at a point where they offered value, exclusivity, and design. It seems that the market (basically us) has shown that we don't care if they take away value and exclusivity. Perhaps too early to say, but isn't what's left is a design-centric (fashion?) watch?


I definitely agree with you about Chrono 2 (it is overpriced) . The movements are being used in Kuronos should get an immediate update if they want to keep up. Other models like Mori and (hopefully) Toki have enough going on to deserve their price especially considering their limited numbers but not three times the msrp.

As for the Ming, I am sure Singular will release a very informative video soon about Ming 27.01 but it is very impressive. Distinctive case design, the over all finish, the dial, heavily modified beautifully displayed movement, in a flat very thin watch hits all the right tunes in my opinion.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

I have decided that if i dont win the lottery, i wont chase after a Ming. I just think it’s ok at retail but too much at grey.


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## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

Pongster said:


> I have decided that if i dont win the lottery, i wont chase after a Ming. I just think it's ok at retail but too much at grey.


Kinda like the an IPO tho, price may be established at the listing (retail on a watch) but the market says what it's worth. I think nearly all watches sold above retail is rarely worth it but based on prices, I'm very very wrong. Go figure.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"what's life without whimsy"


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

thewatchidiot said:


> Kinda like the an IPO tho, price may be established at the listing (retail on a watch) but the market says what it's worth. I think nearly all watches sold above retail is rarely worth it but based on prices, I'm very very wrong. Go figure.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "what's life without whimsy"


i was actually considering getting one of the earlier releases (a blue dial or a copper dial). Then saw the massena. I liked the honey dial. Then these debacles happened. Now am thinking, if i dont get the lottery win, maybe not meant to be. And i should focus on my watch plan (which doesnt include a ming).


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Saw the first person report on another watch forum that they got the email that they had been picked in the lottery.....he said he was going with the honey dial.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yadel said:


> I definitely agree with you about Chrono 2 (it is overpriced) . The movements are being used in Kuronos should get an immediate update if they want to keep up. Other models like Mori and (hopefully) Toki have enough going on to deserve their price especially considering their limited numbers but not three times the msrp.
> 
> As for the Ming, I am sure Singular will release a very informative video soon about Ming 27.01 but it is very impressive. Distinctive case design, the over all finish, the dial, heavily modified beautifully displayed movement, in a flat very thin watch hits all the right tunes in my opinion.


I think this is what puts Ming above Kurono and other peers. Ming pairs technical excellence with the distinct design, while Kurono seems to be strictly design-centric. Maybe somebody can enlighten me, but is the Miyota 9S really the best option for Kurono (assuming they want to stick with the Japan Made angle)? I understand that in-house is not an option (at least for now, but the volume of the Toki should open up some new options?)


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> The movement is a big hurdle. But I'm willing to make that compromise and say these watches go beyond the movement. But then I took a look at the dial finishing under a loupe/macro lens, and there wasn't anything exceptional there either. My Halios and Christopher Ward watches are much tidier and crisp in terms of QC. The Chronograph 1 was a big step up from the Bullseye in that department, but still not enough for me to blown away by. In exchange for Hajime's story and his great interpretation of these designs, I felt a compromise was made in terms of movement and the finer quality control details.


Nice, thanks for the pics -- so it seems that Halios just has nice QC for their sub 1K price point, vs Ming/Kurono now more at the 2K price point, so the expectations are different? In this case I'd say that 
Halios still doesn't belong in the prestige group, because the design to me just reminds me of millions of steel sport watches out there. Its a value priced Chirstopher Ward (or Aqua Terra) then..


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

yadel said:


> As I stated in my message, I gave examples of some "micro brands" that are doing great job releasing very commendable pieces (and I definitely put Halios in that group). Ming, Halios and up to some level Kuruno deserves the hype they are getting at the moment. Halios finish, case design, dial, bracelet and overall package is way above their asking price. I can't say the same thing for some of the Kuruno Tokyo models but models like "Mori" have that "extra flair"
> I also would agree that out of that three, Ming has a very recognizable distinct design language.
> 
> I own couple of Zelos too. Some of their models are not my cup of tea as well , some are great VS their price point. But I wouldn't put Zelos in the same group.
> ...


I think outstanding design is first though. It may depend on the collector, but for those with a few traditional swiss brand pieces already, without the design being outstanding, I feel there not that much interest, unless the micro hits on some novel color or some feature that it really in demand. I looked at Halios and having a few divers already, have a few steel no bezel sport watches, i'm totally not inspired to get one. So my sense is that they are more a brand toward those are starting up and don't want to fork out yet for a swiss brand, vs MING/Kurono which also can appeal to a higher end collector looking for some unique design/variety addition (which someone else also mentioned here on this thread).

Maybe Halios is like a sweet spot between Zelos and C Ward.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Pongster said:


> i was actually considering getting one of the earlier releases (a blue dial or a copper dial). Then saw the massena. I liked the honey dial. Then these debacles happened. Now am thinking, if i dont get the lottery win, maybe not meant to be. And i should focus on my watch plan (which doesnt include a ming).


the cool thing about Ming is that all watch plans have room for his design I feel... who knows, maybe in time there will be another one. The Massena is a huge debacle though I agree, like they had all the previous knowedge and still goofed.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

ms55 said:


> Massena posted some details about this drawing: RANDOM DRAW PROCEDURE | Massena LAB


"If you have not received an email from Massena LAB by June 1, it is safe to assume that your name was not selected."

This really pissed me off, the level of snobbery from Massena is getting unbearable. "Oh, if you're not one of the lucky winners, sod off, I don't want anything to do with you". After this s**tshow, they won't even take the time to send an email to everyone that has been left out frustrated to let them know that they weren't lucky and to thank them for their support?

I'm getting fed up with these two brands already. Maybe I'll end up becoming the flipper this fall when I get the blue 17.09 that I'm waiting for.


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## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

Pongster said:


> I have decided that if i dont win the lottery, i wont chase after a Ming. I just think it's ok at retail but too much at grey.


I will send you mine for the price I pay for it


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

manofrolex said:


> I will send you mine for the price I pay for it


you won?


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

Pongster said:


> you won?


just let me know how much.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> Halios still doesn't belong in the prestige group, because the design to me just reminds me of millions of steel sport watches out there. Its a value priced Chirstopher Ward (or Aqua Terra) then..


I didn't say it belongs in this prestige group. If there was a prestige group for design, I don't think a lot of the Kuronos belong there either. The Chronograph 2 is a pretty standard chronograph design from the Patek Tasti Tondi era, and the other three handers have very strong Art Deco and vintage UG Polerouter inspiration. In short, they look like a few hundred other vintage watches.

But I get your point, and I only mentioned Halios because it was previously mentioned here.


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## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

Pongster said:


> you won?


Hypothetical but I would ....


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

guillelle said:


> Maybe I'll end up becoming the flipper this fall when I get the blue 17.09 that I'm waiting for.


But due to the edition size on that one (around 3k pieces) you likely won't be making a huge bank.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

christianj said:


> But due to the edition size on that one (around 3k pieces) you likely won't be making a huge bank.


From what I remember it was ~2k pieces with slightly more blue vs. burgundy.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@monsters ...just looked up again what they said on IG after the release and the wording was "Across both variants and all the order windows, the number of watches produced stands at over 2,000 pieces." Split was 55%/45% in favor of blue.

I guess I read the "over" 2,000 as closer to 3k and you see it as closer to 2k....really splitting hairs but we agree much larger release than other Ming releases. In the end we will never know since they said they would not disclose the final numbers of the release.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

christianj said:


> But due to the edition size on that one (around 3k pieces) you likely won't be making a huge bank.


I couldn't care less... When it comes to certain microbrands, like Ming, I care about the design and value proposition almost the same as the brand history and its founders. That's why I'm pissed, I feel disappointed by Ming lately to the point that I'm not that attracted to the brand anymore.

Since both Halios and Kurono were mentioned earlier in the thread, those are two great examples of microbrands with humble and committed founders that are genuinely working for their true fans and running away from snobbism. Kind of the opposite of what Ming is doing. Maybe I'm an idealist here, but these things matter to me as much as the watches themselves.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

christianj said:


> @monsters ...just looked up again what they said on IG after the release and the wording was "Across both variants and all the order windows, the number of watches produced stands at over 2,000 pieces." Split was 55%/45% in favor of blue.
> 
> I guess I read the "over" 2,000 as closer to 3k and you see it as closer to 2k....really splitting hairs but we agree much larger release than other Ming releases. In the end we will never know since they said they would not disclose the final numbers of the release.


i also read it to be closer to 2K, if closer to 3k, i think they would just write close to 3K. as we've seen they are careful about their words  but the other dimension here though is that that means each color is around 1K, and this is more apple/apples way of comparing I think, becuase for example as we've seen with Kurono, the pieces are indeed linked to the color. Perhaps someone looking for blue won't consider burgundy etc. (for me, I definitely would have never done blue and it fit in with my collection strategy). So I think the resale of the ming might still be quite good, especially when we look at the 3K-4K batch size of the latest kurono...


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## ms55 (Jan 31, 2017)

anyone here get notification that they got chosen?


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## alinla (Jun 15, 2019)

ms55 said:


> anyone here get notification that they got chosen?


I think the other thread noted that two people here and one on another forum were selected.


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## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

Yep I got notified I got the black dial. Paid for it already

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

ryanb741 said:


> Yep I got notified I got the black dial. Paid for it already
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Congrats!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

ryanb741 said:


> Yep I got notified I got the black dial. Paid for it already
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Congrats man! I wanted the black one as well. Not my luck.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

@singularityseven will you be reviewing the 27.01?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> @singularityseven will you be reviewing the 27.01?


Yes sir. I'm honeymooning with it right now and have no real criticism, so I'll probably give it a few more weeks before I start working on it.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Yes sir. I'm honeymooning with it right now and have no real criticism, so I'll probably give it a few more weeks before I start working on it.
> 
> View attachment 15908224
> 
> ...


Please do criticise the heck out of it, because I chose the Fears over one of these and would like to validate my purchase 😁


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Please do criticise the heck out of it, because I chose the Fears over one of these and would like to validate my purchase 😁


😂😂 The 27.01 sucks


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> Please do criticise the heck out of it, because I chose the Fears over one of these and would like to validate my purchase


Fears over Ming?!  I LOOOOOOVE the 27.01. Perhaps my favorite Ming.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> Fears over Ming?!  I LOOOOOOVE the 27.01. Perhaps my favorite Ming.


The fact the Fears costs about half the Ming, and I'm getting a personalized, new watch instead of a used one, helped making that decision.

But the 27.01 design is extremely sexy, no doubt. My favourite from the non-one-off models.


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

Yea, i am gonna try nit·picking . No can't find anything 🤔😜


----------



## Guycalledleon (Aug 15, 2020)

Wow..ming huh


----------



## EekTheCat (Feb 21, 2021)

jmariorebelo said:


> Please do criticise the heck out of it, because I chose the Fears over one of these and would like to validate my purchase 😁


No worries mate, Ming suck - I was clearly sleepwalking under the influence of some bad juju when I somehow procured the 17.09 🤣🤣🤣.

Great choice though, Fears. As far as hollow watch hands go, I must say their syringe hands are far more appealing.

Which Brunswick build did u opt for?


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

EekTheCat said:


> No worries mate, Ming suck - I was clearly sleepwalking under the influence of some bad juju when I somehow procured the 17.09 🤣🤣🤣.
> 
> Great choice though, Fears. As far as hollow watch hands go, I must say their syringe hands are far more appealing.
> 
> Which Brunswick build did u opt for?


I chose the salmon. The colour was indeed the biggest deciding point, by this point I doubt a greyscale watch will satisfy me. I really like the 27.01 in photos and can appreciate from afar, but don't think it would work in my collection.


----------



## Rogco (Jan 12, 2017)

I've been checking my email way to much hoping I got lucky. Nothing so far.


----------



## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

ms55 said:


> anyone here get notification that they got chosen?


Yes I got the email on the 27th. Black only.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Emails have started to go out with 17.09 shipping timeframes. Cut and paste from the email:

The delivery estimates below are split by dial colour and Order Number. Please refer to your original order confirmation from 16 April for the Order Number - the format of which is "2017-XXXX", where 'XXXX' is a sequential number. If you ordered one of each dial colour, please note that they may be delivered in separate batches.

*MING 17.09 Blue*
Delivery by end-March 2022: 2017-3664 to 2017-4332
Delivery by end-April 2022: 2017-4334 to 2017-4975
Delivery by end-May 2022: 2017-4976 onwards

*MING 17.09 Burgundy*
Delivery by end-March 2022: 2017-3663 to 2017-4233
Delivery by end-April 2022: 2017-4235 to 2017-5188
Delivery by end-May 2022: 2017-5191 onwards


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

christianj said:


> Emails have started to go out with 17.09 shipping timeframes. Cut and paste from the email:
> 
> The delivery estimates below are split by dial colour and Order Number. Please refer to your original order confirmation from 16 April for the Order Number - the format of which is "2017-XXXX", where 'XXXX' is a sequential number. If you ordered one of each dial colour, please note that they may be delivered in separate batches.
> 
> ...


I got it too, I feel less bad that I didn't get in as fast as some others here, but the relative time difference between the batches actually seems to be very small


----------



## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

christianj said:


> Emails have started to go out with 17.09 shipping timeframes. Cut and paste from the email:
> 
> The delivery estimates below are split by dial colour and Order Number. Please refer to your original order confirmation from 16 April for the Order Number - the format of which is "2017-XXXX", where 'XXXX' is a sequential number. If you ordered one of each dial colour, please note that they may be delivered in separate batches.
> 
> ...


Is this for the 10 minutes time frame batch?


----------



## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

saru04 said:


> Is this for the 10 minutes time frame batch?


yep believe so


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

saru04 said:


> Is this for the 10 minutes time frame batch?


Yes....the 17.09 Blue and Burgundy editions.


----------



## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

disco_nug said:


> yep believe so





christianj said:


> Yes....the 17.09 Blue and Burgundy editions.


I see okay okay


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

Blue or bordeaux strap? Hmmm?


----------



## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

Hey guys, i'm planning to try make a strap for the watch.
Are all curve springbar same in curvature?


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

saru04 said:


> Hey guys, i'm planning to try make a strap for the watch.
> Are all curve springbar same in curvature?


It should be (assuming it is placed right for the lug length. I can recommend Delugs with first hand experience, as the owner is a multi-Ming owner.

He also has a few saved instagram stories about curved straps and fit.


----------



## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

monsters said:


> It should be (assuming it is placed right for the lug length. I can recommend Delugs with first hand experience, as the owner is a multi-Ming owner.
> 
> He also has a few saved instagram stories about curved straps and fit.


I see. Thank you for the recommendation. 
I do make straps myself but it is my first trying on a curved springbar and the watch isn't here yet so its hard to order parts.


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

saru04 said:


> I see. Thank you for the recommendation.
> I do make straps myself but it is my first trying on a curved springbar and the watch isn't here yet so its hard to order parts.


If you figure it out, would you please let me know where you got bars that fit? Once you receive the watch of course. I also make my own straps!


----------



## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

horolo_gy said:


> If you figure it out, would you please let me know where you got bars that fit? Once you receive the watch of course. I also make my own straps!


Ya definitely will update you.
I think i will only be able to get back to you by October


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

saru04 said:


> Ya definitely will update you.
> I think i will only be able to get back to you by October


Thank you friend!


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

The honeymoon period doesn't seem to end with this one. Not an ounce of regret so far.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




----------



## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

singularityseven said:


> View attachment 15951011


Very crisp dial


----------



## Stchambe (Jun 1, 2009)

man... this thread makes me mad at myself for not buying some Ming models when I had the chance...


----------



## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

Stchambe said:


> man... this thread makes me mad at myself for not buying some Ming models when I had the chance...


Don't worry man, more models to be released!


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

saru04 said:


> Don't worry man, more models to be released!


amen - let's hope they do more timed releases in the future so everyone gets a shot! Keep the pics coming if you have a Ming please!


----------



## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

On a titanium bracelet you hardly know it's on









~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"facts don't change opinions, influencers do"


----------



## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

monsters said:


> amen - let's hope they do more timed releases in the future so everyone gets a shot! Keep the pics coming if you have a Ming please!


Most likely there will be more timed releases in the future.
Good way to knock off flippers from the market.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

saru04 said:


> Most likely there will be more timed releases in the future.
> Good way to knock off flippers from the market.


Not sure why you think the time releases will deter flippers. Sure there will be more of each model but there are still going to be people that get their watches in the early batches of the shipments that will in turn flip those before the rest of those from the normal release even get a chance of getting theirs. People that didn't know about the release, couldn't partake in the release or changed their mind later will be buyers.


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Can it be October already so I can get my hands on my first Ming 

wish they would release another diver since I missed out on the last one


----------



## saru04 (Sep 3, 2012)

christianj said:


> Not sure why you think the time releases will deter flippers. Sure there will be more of each model but there are still going to be people that get their watches in the early batches of the shipments that will in turn flip those before the rest of those from the normal release even get a chance of getting theirs. People that didn't know about the release, couldn't partake in the release or changed their mind later will be buyers.


True true, agree with you that flippers can still do that.
But i do believe it will still affect the price in some way. Not sure til October 


yellowfury said:


> Can it be October already so I can get my hands on my first Ming
> 
> wish they would release another diver since I missed out on the last one


Yup me too. ?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Still working on my review of the 27.01, but I put this together since it is impossible to ignore Grand Seiko for design and finishing when you're in the $5000-7000 range, which is what people are asking for the 27.01 on Chrono24. Before anyone asks - I love them both equally, and would find it very very difficult to choose between the two.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Still working on my review of the 27.01, but I put this together since it is impossible to ignore Grand Seiko for design and finishing when you're in the $5000-7000 range, which is what people are asking for the 27.01 on Chrono24. Before anyone asks - I love them both equally, and would find it very very difficult to choose between the two.


Interesting! It seems the difference in the case and dial finishing is very noticeable.


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Interesting! It seems the difference in the case and dial finishing is very noticeable.


Because it is. Ming is not good at finishing IMO. Whatever cutting method they use for the dials and hands leaves rough edges.

Then you pit it against the king of finishing and you get noticeable differences.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> Because it is. Ming is not good at finishing IMO. Whatever cutting method they use for the dials and hands leaves rough edges.
> 
> Then you pit it against the king of finishing and you get noticeable differences.


I think it is cut fine. Ming mentioned they use very tight tolerances. I think the issue is finishing - looks to me like a very rough finish. I wouldn't expect hand finishing from Ming, but this looks quite disappointing.


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

Rough case finish?!


----------



## Shazoo757 (May 6, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> I figured it is time for MING to get it's own little corner in this forum, where MING owners and fans can come together and discuss these watches.
> 
> I'll go first,
> 
> ...


Just take my money


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yadel said:


> Rough case finish?!


You can see on a few macro shots posted above - the case lines on the GS are sharper. Ming case lines are less pronounced, duller. The polishing seems to be worse than the GS too, judging by the reflections.


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

I have a GS as well . Case polish can definitely compete with the GS and the case design is very different but I will let singularity elaborate more .


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yadel said:


> I have a GS as well . Case polish can definitely compete with the GS and the case design is very different but I will let singularity elaborate more .


That's glad to hear. I will be happy if Ming case finishing is comparable to GS. Btw @singularityseven, is the case finish on the 19.xx better than 17.xx? Seems so from pictures, but I can't tell.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Still working on my review of the 27.01, but I put this together since it is impossible to ignore Grand Seiko for design and finishing when you're in the $5000-7000 range, which is what people are asking for the 27.01 on Chrono24. Before anyone asks - I love them both equally, and would find it very very difficult to choose between the two.


Great video. More than the case finishing, it's the rough edges on the hands of the Ming that really contrast with the GS, as you see in the two photos I quoted. Not that it's bad per se, but if the used Ming costs 20% MORE than the GS, something's very strange indeed. Insane how the 27.01 is already over 6k GBP used... and how much hype plays a part here. I mean it's even more expensive than the new SBGY007!

And thanks B&B, I think this is putting my mind more at ease with my choice of the Fears 😁


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> Great video. More than the case finishing, it's the rough edges on the hands of the Ming that really contrast with the GS, as you see in the two photos I quoted. Not that it's bad per se, but if the used Ming costs 20% MORE than the GS, something's very strange indeed. Insane how the 27.01 is already over 6k GBP used... and how much hype plays a part here. I mean it's even more expensive than the new SBGY007!
> 
> And thanks B&B, I think this is putting my mind more at ease with my choice of the Fears


Agreed. It's the rough hands.

Same roughness I see in my Lorier Hyperion, which I'm fine with. Just not expected at 2k+ per watch.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Great video. More than the case finishing, it's the rough edges on the hands of the Ming that really contrast with the GS, as you see in the two photos I quoted. Not that it's bad per se, but if the used Ming costs 20% MORE than the GS, something's very strange indeed. Insane how the 27.01 is already over 6k GBP used... and how much hype plays a part here. I mean it's even more expensive than the new SBGY007!
> 
> And thanks B&B, I think this is putting my mind more at ease with my choice of the Fears 😁


It's kind of insane that the implied price/quality ratio suggests that Ming has more "brand" value than GS. Understandable for Rolex, but Ming... How is the Fears case finishing btw? It's on my list, because I love how the case looks on pictures, would like to get a first-hand testimony.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> Agreed. It's the rough hands.
> 
> Same roughness I see in my Lorier Hyperion, which I'm fine with. Just not expected at 2k+ per watch.


Now that I think about it. I don't think I ever saw (or at least not too often) a macro shot of a Ming


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> It's kind of insane that the implied price/quality ratio suggests that Ming has more "brand" value than GS. Understandable for Rolex, but Ming... How is the Fears case finishing btw? It's on my list, because I love how the case looks on pictures, would like to get a first-hand testimony.


It's hype driven by scarcity. If GS had as small releases, prices for GS would go through the roof IMO.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> It's hype driven by scarcity. If GS had as small releases, prices for GS would go through the roof IMO.


Yeah, and the "new cool kid" effect. The new unlimited batch of 17.09 didn't seem to affect that in any way.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> It's kind of insane that the implied price/quality ratio suggests that Ming has more "brand" value than GS. Understandable for Rolex, but Ming...


I don't think this means anything regarding brands, just the specific models themselves. There are a few GS models that are also very sought after. The thing is, when your entire lineup is a limited edition, as is Ming's, that scarcity is transversal to the whole brand.



> How is the Fears case finishing btw? It's on my list, because I love how the case looks on pictures, would like to get a first-hand testimony.


I'll be sure to tell you once I've got it in my hands, which by the looks of things will be no sooner than... September 😢


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Interesting! It seems the difference in the case and dial finishing is very noticeable.





horolo_gy said:


> Because it is. Ming is not good at finishing IMO. Whatever cutting method they use for the dials and hands leaves rough edges.
> 
> Then you pit it against the king of finishing and you get noticeable differences.





RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I think it is cut fine. Ming mentioned they use very tight tolerances. I think the issue is finishing - looks to me like a very rough finish. I wouldn't expect hand finishing from Ming, but this looks quite disappointing.





yadel said:


> Rough case finish?!





RetiredKarlMarx said:


> You can see on a few macro shots posted above - the case lines on the GS are sharper. Ming case lines are less pronounced, duller. The polishing seems to be worse than the GS too, judging by the reflections.





yadel said:


> I have a GS as well . Case polish can definitely compete with the GS and the case design is very different but I will let singularity elaborate more .





RetiredKarlMarx said:


> That's glad to hear. I will be happy if Ming case finishing is comparable to GS. Btw @singularityseven, is the case finish on the 19.xx better than 17.xx? Seems so from pictures, but I can't tell.


I agree, the case cutting on the Ming cases isn't as razor sharp as the Grand Seiko, and there are some wobbly corners where the lugs are hollowed out. Grand Seiko are masters at making razor sharp hands, but to be fair, the hands on the Ming are rough by design, so sand-blasting/media-blasting to achieve that finish is likely going to affect the crispness of the edges too. Realistically, you will *never* notice this unless you're like me and get disgustingly close to your watches ?

I'm quite impressed with the polishing on the Ming case and I think they've done an excellent job. Since the entire case is rounded/curved, I think it would be difficult to expect "mirror like" polishing. And I think they've done the best they can without getting "artisanal" about it. It sure looks better polished than a lot of Omegas I've owned/handled.

I'd say the finishing on the 17.01 and 27.01 are pretty similar, although the 17.01 was a different material (titanium). The 27.01 is a bit more flashy as 316L seems to take polishing a bit better.

But if we're talking case finishing in isolation, GS sets themselves up to win because of their case designs, and all the beautiful intersections of brushed and polished surfaces. I love Grand Seiko and I plan on adding two more to my collection, but I think the God-like status given to Zaratsu / Sallaz polishing is a bit overrated. It looks great, but isn't a night/day difference from a high polished Rolex 904L case. I think it is Grand Seiko's case designs (not all of them) that make great use of their polishing skills and the Sallaz machines. Apologies for de-railing this into a GS & Rolex topic, but I enjoy discussing this and it seems like an appropriate place to share this:

Brushing on a Rolex (116610LN) lugs vs a Grand Seiko (SBGE245) - I'd go with Rolex here. It is mass manufactured and certainly not artisnal, but the brushing on the lugs come across as more uniform and neat to me.

















Polishing on them is comparable, but if you want to get a mirror-like reflection of yourself in about 30% of the surface of the case flank (the parts that are flat), the GS wins. But on the curved sections, the GS looks like any other high polished luxury watch.

















As for overall dial tidiness, I think Ming is up there with GS. Any of the particles/dust you see are on the top crystal, and the dial is pretty immaculate. I'm very OCD about this stuff, and I've found a particle or two on the GS that I'm going to have to live with.



jmariorebelo said:


> Great video. More than the case finishing, it's the rough edges on the hands of the Ming that really contrast with the GS, as you see in the two photos I quoted. Not that it's bad per se, but if the used Ming costs 20% MORE than the GS, something's very strange indeed. Insane how the 27.01 is already over 6k GBP used... and how much hype plays a part here. I mean it's even more expensive than the new SBGY007!
> 
> And thanks B&B, I think this is putting my mind more at ease with my choice of the Fears ?


?

We certainly live in strange times where watch pricing is concerned. I will say that after owning the Ming 27.01 for the last 5-6 weeks, I'm more impressed with this watch than the 17.01 or the 18.01, and I would definitely pay to play for this particular piece (as I did). But that's me looking at this watch in isolation. When you look at everything else available (like GS for example), then you've got to really love what Ming is about to put down that money.



horolo_gy said:


> It's hype driven by scarcity. If GS had as small releases, prices for GS would go through the roof IMO.





RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Yeah, and the "new cool kid" effect. The new unlimited batch of 17.09 didn't seem to affect that in any way.





jmariorebelo said:


> I don't think this means anything regarding brands, just the specific models themselves. There are a few GS models that are also very sought after. The thing is, when your entire lineup is a limited edition, as is Ming's, that scarcity is transversal to the whole brand.
> I'll be sure to tell you once I've got it in my hands, which by the looks of things will be no sooner than... September ?


Yeah, I think GS is becoming a victim of the industry's greed too. Some GS watches are already ridiculously priced - Peacock, Whirlpool, etc. I don't think GS is immune, and if anything, they're very openly indulging in this by raising prices without really offering anything new/improved like on their new range of Quartz GMTs that cost between $4.5k-5.5k. In my opinion, the whole watch industry is eating it's own tail as we speak. But don't listen to me, I'm a pessimist.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I'm quite impressed with the polishing on the Ming case and I think they've done an excellent job. Since the entire case is rounded/curved, I think it would be difficult to expect "mirror like" polishing. And I think they've done the best they can without getting "artisanal" about it. It sure looks better polished than a lot of Omegas I've owned/handled.


Exactly that on the mirror polish. It only gets to be mirror-like on a perfectly flat surface. However, this doesn't mean curved surfaces can't be finished to the same degree of perfection, as you can see on the soldered, fully curved lugs of this Ophion (case made by Voutilainen & Cattin). The reflection is distorted due to the curvature, but otherwise flawless and very crisp.












> But if we're talking case finishing in isolation, GS sets themselves up to win because of their case designs, and all the beautiful intersections of brushed and polished surfaces. I love Grand Seiko and I plan on adding two more to my collection, but I think the God-like status given to Zaratsu / Sallaz polishing is a bit overrated. It looks great, but isn't a night/day difference from a high polished Rolex 904L case. I think it is Grand Seiko's case designs (not all of them) that make great use of their polishing skills and the Sallaz machines.


Yep, same as above, they use flat surfaces to great effect, the 44GS being the exponent of that. It's a fantastic look, but also a very temperamental one, as the scratches at the end of the lugs on your Winter show.



> We certainly live in strange times where watch pricing is concerned. I will say that after owning the Ming 27.01 for the last 5-6 weeks, I'm more impressed with this watch than the 17.01 or the 18.01, and I would definitely pay to play for this particular piece (as I did). But that's me looking at this watch in isolation. When you look at everything else available (like GS for example), then you've got to really love what Ming is about to put down that money.


Yeah, I wouldn't call the Ming overpriced at market value, although it's getting _very_ close to it, it's just you have to be very sure of how much you want it. Just like the Fears and Ophion, there aren't many if any good alternatives to these watches, both in design and quality, and even more if we're looking only within the hand wound scene. As you say, pay to play.

Interested to see how the 27.02 will fare, both in watchmaking and commodity terms.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Exactly that on the mirror polish. It only gets to be mirror-like on a perfectly flat surface. However, this doesn't mean curved surfaces can't be finished to the same degree of perfection, as you can see on the soldered, fully curved lugs of this Ophion (case made by Voutilainen & Cattin). The reflection is distorted due to the curvature, but otherwise flawless and very crisp.
> 
> View attachment 15957780
> 
> ...


I hate that you shared a picture of that Ophion. I've been tempted to get one for a while now ?


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Exactly that on the mirror polish. It only gets to be mirror-like on a perfectly flat surface. However, this doesn't mean curved surfaces can't be finished to the same degree of perfection, as you can see on the soldered, fully curved lugs of this Ophion (case made by Voutilainen & Cattin). The reflection is distorted due to the curvature, but otherwise flawless and very crisp.
> 
> View attachment 15957780
> 
> ...


Wtf... Thats some good polishing!


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I agree, the case cutting on the Ming cases isn't as razor sharp as the Grand Seiko, and there are some wobbly corners where the lugs are hollowed out. Grand Seiko are masters at making razor sharp hands, but to be fair, the hands on the Ming are rough by design, so sand-blasting/media-blasting to achieve that finish is likely going to affect the crispness of the edges too. Realistically, you will *never* notice this unless you're like me and get disgustingly close to your watches ?
> 
> I'm quite impressed with the polishing on the Ming case and I think they've done an excellent job. Since the entire case is rounded/curved, I think it would be difficult to expect "mirror like" polishing. And I think they've done the best they can without getting "artisanal" about it. It sure looks better polished than a lot of Omegas I've owned/handled.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, sorry, I meant the 27.xx, not 19.xx. Interesting comment on the Sub. I guess I am primed to look for good quality work in GS, so I notice it more. But that's really encouraging, I am really anxious to get my 17.09 now!


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

I also sometimes find tempting to complain about the prices of certain watches that I want to own. How overpriced some of them are , "hype machine" etc then I remember richard mille! 😜


----------



## En_Nissen (Oct 10, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> I hate that you shared a picture of that Ophion. I've been tempted to get one for a while now


Do iiiit! It's an awesome watch, I can't fathom why it's not more hyped than is the case.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

En_Nissen said:


> Do iiiit! It's an awesome watch, I can't fathom why it's not more hyped than is the case.


Looks great, love the Belomo!


----------



## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Now that I think about it. I don't think I ever saw (or at least not too often) a macro shot of a Ming


I have a bunch on my instagram! Mostly from last year as I've been spending more of my time shooting my friends' watches this year.


----------



## Shazoo757 (May 6, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> I figured it is time for MING to get it's own little corner in this forum, where MING owners and fans can come together and discuss these watches.
> 
> I'll go first,
> 
> ...


sooooo do you want to sell yours?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I finally got around to finishing my video of the 27.01:


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I finally got around to finishing my video of the 27.01:


Just finished watching the video, great stuff as always. Needless to say I completely agree with your thoughts on the movement, and also how the used market shenanigans haven't got anything to do with the watch itself and shouldn't be a point of criticism.


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## bunnswatch (Mar 20, 2016)

I want a Ming World-Timer or something from the 17xx line. Pretty impressive. The lime gives me Tron (not to be confused with Trona Mines) vibes. Very impressive. Just a bad ass watch.

Envious of Ming owners.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Y'all have any predictions/wild speculations on what the next Ming Move is? They sent out the Special Projects Cave email on 15 Feb and teased the lightest watch drop but so far no further updates on that. I'm already waiting for deliveries in August and December so I really don't have any business giving them more of my money. But I'm always curious...


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## arpanlaha (May 27, 2021)

It seems we have our first look at what the 17.09 (blue) will look like with the capped pinion (from the instagrams of the Fratello editor and Magnus Bosse respectively)


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

arpanlaha said:


> It seems we have our first look at what the 17.09 (blue) will look like with the capped pinion (from the instagrams of the Fratello editor and Magnus Bosse respectively)
> 
> View attachment 15972393


Goddamn that looks absolutely brilliant. But this...










Looks even better. Can't convince me otherwise. The tip of the hand going beneath the indices would be just perfect.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

arpanlaha said:


> View attachment 15972393


Great! Now I get to look at these wonderful pics while I wait another 9 months!


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

arpanlaha said:


> It seems we have our first look at what the 17.09 (blue) will look like with the capped pinion (from the instagrams of the Fratello editor and Magnus Bosse respectively)
> 
> View attachment 15972393
> 
> ...


Those are


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## fchen (Jun 12, 2021)

christianj said:


> Great! Now I get to look at these wonderful pics while I wait another 9 months!


mine will be in the last batch, longer than 9 months 😢


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## Gazdaki (Dec 20, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Goddamn that looks absolutely brilliant. But this...
> 
> View attachment 15972414
> 
> ...


Maybe I made a mistake ordering Burgundy 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Wow, it looks amazing in that second photo!

_Although I still wish it had numerals xD_

But can't deny it looks very unique and interesting!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Goddamn that looks absolutely brilliant. But this...
> 
> View attachment 15972414
> 
> ...


I can appreciate the longer minute hand, but now the hour hand looks stunted. I'd probably extent the hour hand to make contact with the hour markers too on this mock-up.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> I can appreciate the longer minute hand, but now the hour hand looks stunted. I'd probably extent the hour hand to make contact with the hour markers too on this mock-up.


Not sure everyone is going to agree. Hour hands end at the one ring in the dial which seems logical. If the hour hands had extended past the ring it would have seemed odd.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

christianj said:


> Not sure everyone is going to agree. Hour hands end at the one ring in the dial which seems logically What they were going for instead of having it extend past that.


Yeah I don't mind that gap, it aligns with the more visually noticeable circle that separates the guilloche centre from the brushed outer ring.

Hand size and dial proportions are a pet peeve of mine. For example (why not a bit more off topic) I like the ALS 1815 Up/Down but the hour hand is definitely a bit too long. It goes into no mans land, halfway between the stepped circle of the dial and the printed numerals (and actually getting over the larger 10 11 and 12 numerals). In fact, look at the negative space between the stepped circle and the numeral 2. Then that same space in numeral 10. It's a huge difference.

Yes, I do obsess over small details, how do you know?


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I finally got around to finishing my video of the 27.01:


Your reviews are some of the best out there. I've learned a lot about watch value from your videos.

A slight correction, you said in the beginning that the 27.01 was released late last year, but wasn't their first release for this watch last spring some time?


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## Shazoo757 (May 6, 2021)

Looking to buy 1 ming watch for my collection. What are the top 3 ming watches?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> Your reviews are some of the best out there. I've learned a lot about watch value from your videos.
> 
> A slight correction, you said in the beginning that the 27.01 was released late last year, but wasn't their first release for this watch last spring some time?


Thanks for catching that! Yeah, it was released Spring/Summer 2020 and began shipping towards late 2020.



Shazoo757 said:


> Looking to buy 1 ming watch for my collection. What are the top 3 ming watches?


Maybe share some more details about:
1. Which models you like
2. What your budget is
3. Color preferences
4. Movement preferences
etc..


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## Shazoo757 (May 6, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> Thanks for catching that! Yeah, it was released Spring/Summer 2020 and began shipping towards late 2020.
> 
> Maybe share some more details about:
> 1. Which models you like
> ...


Complete noobie in ming. No budget and just want the most aesthetically pleasing one


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Shazoo757 said:


> Complete noobie in ming. No budget and just want the most aesthetically pleasing one


If you're looking for something highly "collectible" and are willing to play the secondary market game, I'd recommend a copper dial Ming 17.06.

Sean Song has one for sale that seems to be in excellent condition - Ming 17.06 Copper









The Ming 18.01 diver is another very interesting watch, if you're looking for something more "robust". There's a few on Chrono24, and some even brand new.









I would personally avoid the 17.01. Not a fan of the poorly lumed hands, and the 17.06 just looks nicer to me.


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## Shazoo757 (May 6, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> If you're looking for something highly "collectible" and are willing to play the secondary market game, I'd recommend a copper dial Ming 17.06.
> 
> Sean Song has one for sale that seems to be in excellent condition - Ming 17.06 Copper
> 
> ...


Omg. The copper one is beautiful


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## fchen (Jun 12, 2021)

Shazoo757 said:


> Omg. The copper one is beautiful
> [/QUOTEy





Shazoo757 said:


> Omg. The copper one is beautiful


yes, in my opinion, it is the most beautiful model from Ming, with the blue 17.09 as close second.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

fchen said:


> yes, in my opinion, it is the most beautiful model from Ming, with the blue 17.09 as close second.


Blue 17.09 first, 27.01 second. Copper is nice and iconic, but I wouldn't call it the most beautiful. Of course, opinions will differ 

It seems most people really like that blue 17.09 though!


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## Shazoo757 (May 6, 2021)

fchen said:


> yes, in my opinion, it is the most beautiful model from Ming, with the blue 17.09 as close second.


I'll take a look at that right now


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

New MING on the horizon - 20.11









MING 20.11 Mosaic: Pre-launch Information


We hope you’re in a place that allows you to stay safe and enjoy summer!It is our pleasure to announce that the MING 20.11 Mosaic - our new flagship and first production watch with mosaic dial - will launch on Mon, 5 July at 1PM GMT. In the interests of continually improving the customer...




ming.watch


----------



## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

The mosaic looks nice. But sadly for me, the massena debacle left a sour taste in my mouth.


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## Chimpsey (Apr 17, 2021)

The price! CHF14500.  But I am sure it will be very beautiful.

Sent from my CPH1919 using Tapatalk


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> New MING on the horizon - 20.11
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At this point, even if it interested me, I wouldn't "play the game". 50 watches for the thousands that follow the brand is taking the piss.

As for the movement, I'd say its the same as on the 19.02, maybe a different bridge design/finishing.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> At this point, even if it interested me, I wouldn't "play the game". 50 watches for the thousands that follow the brand is taking the piss.


I think 50 is a reasonable number, considering the price of CHF 14,500. That's a lot of money! Their high end watches don't usually fly off the shelves as fast as their sub $3-4k ones.

I forgot to add that their "existing customer base" is now pretty massive too, after the 17.09 release.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> New MING on the horizon - 20.11


CHF 14,500


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I think 50 is a reasonable number, considering the price of CHF 14,500. That's a lot of money! Their high end watches don't usually fly off the shelves as fast as their sub $3-4k ones.
> 
> I forgot to add that their "existing customer base" is now pretty massive too, after the 17.09 release.


Good points, specially the second one. But it does create a problem of sorts, turns the brand into an almost closed club. Not a huge fan of that...

But yes, considering the price and placement on the brand hierarchy of this one (flagship) my initial comments weren't appropriate.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Good points, specially the second one. But it does create a problem of sorts, turns the brand into an almost closed club. Not a huge fan of that...
> 
> But yes, considering the price and placement on the brand hierarchy of this one (flagship) my initial comments weren't appropriate.


That seems to be a key ingredient in maintaining brand value in the long run, unfortunately. But these quantities will be significantly more than their other expensive watches (19.02 etc.) so I think these are steps in the right direction.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

The email references the 20.01, which was a chronograph. Does that mean this 20.11 will also use the same chronograph movement? I would really love to get hold of one if it does, but this might be wishful thinking on my part - what do you all think?

It seems like too big a jump in price if the movement is the same as the 19.02 - surely a mosaic dial wouldn't justify a 10k CHF increase?


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

I don't think it will be a chrono based on photos of the dial. EDIT: nevermind, I'm thinking more traditional chronos with subdials.

The dial looks AMAZING though... like holy smokes the mosaic inside the sapphire is crazy if I'm seeing correctly xD

When I saw the email I was kinda scared, like "Oh no... please don't fall in love with this. I don't want to spend that kinda money right now". Sapphire hands?!?!? Micro-rotor!!! Everything about it interested me. Until I saw the size. 41.5mm is an instant NO from me! And I am so relieved hahaha


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

PuYang said:


> I don't think it will be a chrono based on photos of the dial. EDIT: nevermind, I'm thinking more traditional chronos with subdials.
> 
> The dial looks AMAZING though... like holy smokes the mosaic inside the sapphire is crazy if I'm seeing correctly xD
> 
> When I saw the email I was kinda scared, like "Oh no... please don't fall in love with this. I don't want to spend that kinda money right now". Sapphire hands?!?!? Micro-rotor!!! Everything about it interested me. Until I saw the size. 41.5mm is an instant NO from me! And I am so relieved hahaha


Yes, the dial looks amazing, and 41.5 is fine for me. If it were just a 3 hand design I would not be tempted at that price, but if it does turn out to be a chrono....


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

atvar said:


> Yes, the dial looks amazing, and 41.5 is fine for me. If it were just a 3 hand design I would not be tempted at that price, but if it does turn out to be a chrono....


I'm 99.9% sure it's not a chrono. Micro rotor chronographs aren't really a thing, specially not at this price.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> I'm 99.9% sure it's not a chrono. Micro rotor chronographs aren't really a thing, specially not at this price.


Probably best for my wallet...

I wonder how they'll justify the 14k pricing then, if it's just the mosaic dial alone or anything else that stands out...


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

atvar said:


> Probably best for my wallet...
> 
> I wonder how they'll justify the 14k pricing then, if it's just the mosaic dial alone or anything else that stands out...


The 19.05 cost 10k back when it was released. 4k for the dial definitely doesn't feel like a stretch.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> The 19.02 cost 11.9k back when it was released. 2k for the dial definitely doesn't feel like a stretch.


Oh, I'm getting my models mixed up, I thought the 19.02 was the one at 4k or so. My mistake, it all makes sense now...


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

atvar said:


> Oh, I'm getting my models mixed up, I thought the 19.02 was the one at 4k or so. My mistake, it all makes sense now...


No worries, I mixed them up too. The 19.02 was the world timer, the 19.05 the time only (and my dream Ming). 12k and 10k respectively. Both based on the same Schwarz Etienne micro rotor (which btw is also used on the remarkable Schwarz Etienne Roma Synergy by Voutilainen).


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

The 20.11 is a bit too much for my budget. Not at a place I can just put down an 8,000 deposit lol.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Photos of the 27 02 are also starting to surface. Afraid to say it looks excellent...


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## bitethattire (Apr 17, 2014)

That does look good! Kinda bummed I couldn't click through fast enough for that one. The 20.11 looks great too, but 2021 has already been the year of impulse watch buys...


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

Missed my DHL delivery person Friday so hard to commit to another Ming at that price before getting the first one in my hands. I’m also probably burnt out from watch purchases for the year.
Hope someone here gets one to show off.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Good points, specially the second one. But it does create a problem of sorts, turns the brand into an almost closed club. Not a huge fan of that...
> 
> But yes, considering the price and placement on the brand hierarchy of this one (flagship) my initial comments weren't appropriate.


Ming has already gone that way with the Special Projects Cave. They make small runs of watches for individual clients or their most dedicated buyers that normal plebes can't get their hands on. Their reasoning is that they are a small privately owned company without a big budget and it allows them to try out new designs and innovations with someone else footing the bill, but it also means there is a handful of folks out there with some really slick and exclusive watches.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

So far releases in January, April, and July for Ming this year; so maybe one more release in store for 2021?


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## deepfriedicecubes (Dec 14, 2017)

Was really looking forward to the mosaic when they first teased it, wasn't expecting a 14.5K CHF hockey puck. Rather disappointing tbh


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)




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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

I like it, a lot. Interesting twist on the O at twelve. The hands appear to be solid, milled ceramic bits of lume, Moser style. As for the dial, feels like one of those than can't be sufficiently appreciated in photos, only in the metal.

And the movement... that click and click spring assembly is so tasty. Great look.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

The dial is amazing, and the overall design really works for me. The pricing now makes sense to me seeing the overall package. However the crown at not-quite-4 would drive me crazy, I don't get the reason for this detail at all. Overall, my wallet is safe from temptation, but I hope the lucky 50 new customers are happy with theirs!


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Lovely release. I imagine the dial will look white at certain angles, black due to movement color at other angles, or green due to lume. The light play must be quite something with this piece. Ming Thein's photography background shining through again.

If I could afford it, I'd be buying it. Very, very nice!


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

I didn't miss the DHL guy today! The 27.02 has exceeded any of my expectations from just looking at on-line pictures. The guilloche on the outer face is very subtle to the naked eye and helps with the illusion of the black which appears almost bottomless. The dial and hands have an appearance of being 2D from any angle. I was tempted with the 20.11 release but after having this in my hands, I doubt the 20.11's 3x price would make me 3x happier.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Icelatte said:


> View attachment 15980464
> View attachment 15980465
> View attachment 15980467
> 
> ...


Congratulations! That looks amazing.


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

Thanks! Happy to join the club. I’ve been checking out your YT channel. Great quality content!


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Ming has been ambitious about taking orders in while not putting that many actual watches on wrists this year. Hope they can meet their production goals.



Icelatte said:


> I was tempted with the 20.11 release but after having this in my hands, I doubt the 20.11's 3x price would make me 3x happier.


I said the exact same thing to a friend a couple of hours ago when he asked me if I would get this new release. I would still like my 17.06 better so why pay 10x for a watch that I wouldn't like 10x as much?

On the other hand I did spring for the 27.02 and I'm not sure I will like that 5x as much as the slate, so...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I'm in love with this watch, but sadly can't swing that price tag right now:










From Ming Thein's Instagram - Login • Instagram


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I'm in love with this watch, but sadly can't swing that price tag right now:
> 
> View attachment 15982069
> 
> ...


I don't hate it, and actually think the design is very refreshing. But I think the price is very questionable. As much as I dislike the brand prestige concept, I find it hard to accept the price as "fair". Considering the direct distribution model, this is basically priced at JLC+ price level. Yes, there are some unique features, like the dial and sapphire hands, ceramic lume etc... But at what point does the mass-produced, design-centric (as opposed to low volume craftsmanship-centric independents) piece with no brand provenance become objectively overpriced? I feel that this release by Ming, if received well, is going to lift the price of microbrands across the board (akin to what Neymar to PSG did to the European football transfer market). If Ming can charge 15k, then Kurono should charge at least half that, and Halios should up the price to 3-4k? It feels like we, as a community, rejected the brand premium of Patek, Rolex, and AP to install our own idols.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I don't hate it, and actually think the design is very refreshing. But I think the price is very questionable. As much as I dislike the brand prestige concept, I find it hard to accept the price as "fair". Considering the direct distribution model, this is basically priced at JLC+ price level. Yes, there are some unique features, like the dial and sapphire hands, ceramic lume etc... But at what point does the mass-produced, design-centric (as opposed to low volume craftsmanship-centric independents) piece with no brand provenance become objectively overpriced? I feel that this release by Ming, if received well, is going to lift the price of microbrands across the board (akin to what Neymar to PSG did to the European football transfer market). If Ming can charge 15k, then Kurono should charge at least half that, and Halios should up the price to 3-4k? It feels like we, as a community, rejected the brand premium of Patek, Rolex, and AP to install our own idols.


This watch isn't another simple 3D model outsourced to a manufacturer, using off the shelf movements and pretty standard dial manufacturing techniques - which is exactly what a Kurono Tokyo watch is, and even a Halios (which I'm the biggest fanboy of, so don't get me wrong). In that realm of $1-3k watches, Ming has their 17 series which delivers a competitive alternative to the Kurono 3 handers at pretty much similar prices.

This watch doesn't seem to be on the same playing field, and the $15k price tag doesn't seem concocted. The movement on this watch is no Miyota 90S5 or ETA2824-2. Schwarz Etienne's micro-rotor deserves some credit, and this one looks heavily redesigned to fit the MING aesthetic. Schwarz Etienne's ROMA are around 10k new, and 7-8k pre-owned with a similar movement. Their Roma synergy (collab with Kari Voutilainen) with a Comblemine dial and modified micro-rotor movement cost upwards of $30k. Sure you can argue that the Kari name and Guilloche movement make it worth it, but from what I've read about femtolaser etching on sapphire (how MING achieves the multi-layered mosaic), it isn't cheap or easy.











RetiredKarlMarx said:


> But at what point does the mass-produced, design-centric (as opposed to low volume craftsmanship-centric independents) piece with no brand provenance become objectively overpriced?


I'm not sure mass produced is a fair label to place on a watch and movement like this. You may not have the traditional craftsman toiling away at the engraving and polishing desk. But I don't think you get to this movement's finished state with the push of a button (i.e Miyota, ETA etc).

MING doesn't have the same provenance for sure, but they've certainly impressed me more than any of big names in watchmaking. I recently visited the Blancpain boutique and was shocked at how mediocre of a dive watch they're willing to slap a $15k price tag on in the name of provenance.



RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I feel that this release by Ming, if received well, is going to lift the price of microbrands across the board


I don't believe it will, because there are aspects of this watch that will be hard for any of the smaller brands to replicate or imitate. And one of the reasons (I believe) why people gravitate towards MING is because they're constantly evolving their design, their engineering process and trying out new things. Kurono Tokyo, for example, hasn't even bothered with a new case design for their three handers since they began. MING, in the same period of time, has gone through many design iterations, and has made pretty impressive upgrades to their watches (the contrast between the MING 17.01 and 27.01 is impressive). And this dial is certainly novel, and that justifies a portion of the hefty price tag.



RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Yes, there are some unique features, like the dial and sapphire hands, ceramic lume etc...


These are pretty significant features though. With new materials, manufacturing processes and designs, you're looking at a steep increase in manufacturing costs.

Now that the MING fanboy in me has said his piece, I can totally understand why people wouldn't want to spend $15k on a MING watch. I wouldn't even think of spending $15k on a watch right now. It is a heck of a lot of money, and if you don't think this is deserving of the price tag, that is fair. But if I did have $15k to spend on a watch, you'd probably find me spending it on something like this, instead of a JLC. I'm just more excited by it 🤷‍♂️


----------



## The_Bean (Jul 6, 2021)

Personally, I feel like Ming should create another brand for its higher-end watches (the same way Seiko established Grand Seiko) and put a clear distinction in terms of craftsmanship and market position. That way, collectors like us would be more willing to fork out the premium.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

The_Bean said:


> Personally, I feel like Ming should create another brand for its higher-end watches (the same way Seiko established Grand Seiko) and put a clear distinction in terms of craftsmanship and market position. That way, collectors like us would be more willing to fork out the premium.


And in today's edition of "that much for a [insert brand name here]???"....

I really really don't understand what's up with all these arguments of "a brand can't sell products at differences price points".

Why do you care the manufacturer of your watches sell others that cost 3x less (or 3x more)? Literally everybody does it. Patek sell 15k calatravas and 1 million super complications. JLC sell 6k time and dates and then the extraordinary 4 dial Reverso. Porsche sell the 918 alongside the 718.

If YOU look at this watch and think "ah it's cool but they once sold a watch at 2k so this one's crap", that's a YOU problem. Nothing you can pin on the brand.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> And in today's edition of "that much for a [insert brand name here]???"....
> 
> I really really don't understand what's up with all these arguments of "a brand can't sell products at differences price points".
> 
> ...


I have nothing against brands going upmarket. But, when your brand is 4 years old and the only piece on offer is more than 10x the price of the piece you started with 4 years ago, it's overextending. But I think this trend should not be encouraged.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I have nothing against brands going upmarket. But, when your brand is 4 years old and the only piece on offer is more than 10x the price of the piece you started with 4 years ago, it's overextending. But I think this trend should not be encouraged.


Why is it overextending? Not only the brands that start huge, De Bethune for example, have the legitimacy to develop great watches. Otherwise you're gatekeeping watch development to those with enormous quantities of money to start from the top.

The main focus of ming is design. They started small because that's how everything starts organically. There was demand and they expanded. I can see nothing wrong.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> This watch isn't another simple 3D model outsourced to a manufacturer, using off the shelf movements and pretty standard dial manufacturing techniques - which is exactly what a Kurono Tokyo watch is, and even a Halios (which I'm the biggest fanboy of, so don't get me wrong). In that realm of $1-3k watches, Ming has their 17 series which delivers a competitive alternative to the Kurono 3 handers at pretty much similar prices.
> 
> This watch doesn't seem to be on the same playing field, and the $15k price tag doesn't seem concocted. The movement on this watch is no Miyota 90S5 or ETA2824-2. Schwarz Etienne's micro-rotor deserves some credit, and this one looks heavily redesigned to fit the MING aesthetic. Schwarz Etienne's ROMA are around 10k new, and 7-8k pre-owned with a similar movement. Their Roma synergy (collab with Kari Voutilainen) with a Comblemine dial and modified micro-rotor movement cost upwards of $30k. Sure you can argue that the Kari name and Guilloche movement make it worth it, but from what I've read about femtolaser etching on sapphire (how MING achieves the multi-layered mosaic), it isn't cheap or easy.
> View attachment 15982198
> ...


I am sure the improvements can justify the cost, but I really don't want to condone this kind of behavior. Ming was a precious gem at its below $3000 price level. Now if we encourage it to move up, I think it will be a waste. Do we really need another, no matter how unique, $25k+ brand? Another Moser? The $15k BP dive watch is not exciting, sure. But the finishing, craftsmanship, history (yes, I know, but it is an objective plus) - are all superior to the Mosaic Ming. And the BP also offers soon-to-be obscure features including instant delivery and "try before you buy".

I don't really care about this release, not my style - so wouldn't get it even if the price was lower, but I feel alienated by the warm reception this piece is getting.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Why is it overextending? Not only the brands that start huge, De Bethune for example, have the legitimacy to develop great watches. Otherwise you're gatekeeping watch development to those with enormous quantities of money to start from the top.
> 
> The main focus of ming is design. They started small because that's how everything starts organically. There was demand and they expanded. I can see nothing wrong.


I would do the same if I was Ming, but I feel uncomfortable supporting this trend. All the peculiarities with Ming (6 months delivery, "you have one day to decide, and 10 minutes to act", money first - try your watch on when you receive it) were justifiable at a certain price level. At this price level, I feel like cheering on a rising Rolex.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I would do the same if I was Ming, but I feel uncomfortable supporting this trend. All the peculiarities with Ming (6 months delivery, "you have one day to decide, and 10 minutes to act", money first - try your watch on when you receive it) were justifiable at a certain price level. At this price level, I feel like cheering on a rising Rolex.


Ah but now we're talking something else. Those "business traits" have got nothing to do with price, they're not okay (or okay, whatever) regardless of how much money you put upfront. If anything, the higher development prices even warrants pre deposits more than a cheaper watch.

Anyway, definitely agree. This is what, their 3rd watch this year? And they hadn't delivered any until yesterday. Lots of faith, not much to back it up... Yet.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I am sure the improvements can justify the cost, but I really don't want to condone this kind of behavior. Ming was a precious gem at its below $3000 price level. Now if we encourage it to move up, I think it will be a waste. Do we really need another, no matter how unique, $25k+ brand? Another Moser? The $15k BP dive watch is not exciting, sure. But the finishing, craftsmanship, history (yes, I know, but it is an objective plus) - are all superior to the Mosaic Ming. And the BP also offers soon-to-be obscure features including instant delivery and "try before you buy".
> 
> I don't really care about this release, not my style - so wouldn't get it even if the price was lower, but I feel alienated by the warm reception this piece is getting.


I'm in your boat in that I don't want to spend that kind of money on a watch and I also don't find the watch particularly appealing to look at. But I don't think you should feel like Ming is leaving behind and alienating collectors who helped get them started by buying their watches at sub $1000 prices. I think the company ethos is to push the envelope when it comes to innovation and design and offer watches that are totally different from what's on the market. They have just been gradually been building up the public appetite for these items as well as the know-how and capacity to innovate in the direction that they want to. Even if this watch could have been their first launch, which I doubt given how much R&D they probably put in to it, it would never have been able to generate the kind of buzz it is now without the Ming name behind it. And this is undoubtedly the kind of watch making that Ming has been wanting to do all along.

Also, I think Ming is still just getting started and you will certainly see watches from them at 5x and eventually 10x even this price point. At the same time, they are still going to try to put out offerings more reasonable offerings for folks like us who don't want to drop +$10k for a watch (although I doubt we will ever see a sub-$1000 or even sub $2000 price tag on their watches again).

Lastly, Ming is already making watches like this with their Special Projects Cave. How much more elitist would it be if they made these crazy highly technical and beautiful watches but they never even made it near a public release? I think they would get even more criticism that way. At least they are still giving people the option to buy their highest end stuff.


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I am sure the improvements can justify the cost, but I really don't want to condone this kind of behavior. Ming was a precious gem at its below $3000 price level. Now if we encourage it to move up, I think it will be a waste. Do we really need another, no matter how unique, $25k+ brand? Another Moser? The $15k BP dive watch is not exciting, sure. But the finishing, craftsmanship, history (yes, I know, but it is an objective plus) - are all superior to the Mosaic Ming. And the BP also offers soon-to-be obscure features including instant delivery and "try before you buy".
> 
> I don't really care about this release, not my style - so wouldn't get it even if the price was lower, but I feel alienated by the warm reception this piece is getting.


What kind of morally wrong behavior are you at risk of condoning?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

John MS said:


> What kind of morally wrong behavior are you at risk of condoning?


Not morally wrong - just feel that Ming Thein is moving from a gifted designer and watch enthusiast "alienated by expensive watches" to a savvy businessman, but I was making a personal observation. My replies were not meant to be an objective attack on Ming's business model or a critique of the latest release.


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## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Not morally wrong - just feel that Ming Thein is moving from a gifted designer and watch enthusiast "alienated by expensive watches" to a savvy businessman, but I was making a personal observation. My replies were not meant to be an objective attack on Ming's business model or a critique of the latest release.


I'm sure he has been a savvy businessman all along. Just as the owners of all the other successful watch businesses are. There is nothing wrong with making a product that customers demand and are willing to pay for. Not all businesses are as successful. There is no reason I can think of to critizcize Ming for charging those prices. Nor is there a reason to criticize those customers who like the watches enough to pay.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> The $15k BP dive watch is not exciting, sure. But the finishing, craftsmanship, history (yes, I know, but it is an objective plus) - are all superior to the Mosaic Ming. And the BP also offers soon-to-be obscure features including instant delivery and "try before you buy".


The case finishing on the Blancpain I checked out at the boutique in NYC was no more impressive than my MING 27.01. We're not talking GS-esque Zaratsu finishing, or even Submariner level high polishing on the case. The bezel on the FF was probably worse than 50% of the micro-brands I review, whereas the bezel on the MING 18.01 was one of the best I've experienced, and I say that as someone who has heavily criticized that offering from MING.

History? No thanks. Just give me a good product. After my 20th watch, I stopped giving a hoot about what story a watch ships with, because I can't wear a story or look at a story under a macro lens. I just want a great looking watch that works well and is finished well.

Also, the fact that they have had watches at roughly $900, $1300, $1700, $1900, $3500, $4300, $5000, $9000, $12000 and now $16000 suggests that they're actually trying to not alienate anybody, no?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> The case finishing on the Blancpain I checked out at the boutique in NYC was no more impressive than my MING 27.01. We're not talking GS-esque Zaratsu finishing, or even Submariner level high polishing on the case. The bezel on the FF was probably worse than 50% of the micro-brands I review, whereas the bezel on the MING 18.01 was one of the best I've experienced, and I say that as someone who has heavily criticized that offering from MING.
> 
> History? No thanks. Just give me a good product. After my 20th watch, I stopped giving a hoot about what story a watch ships with, because I can't wear a story or look at a story under a macro lens. I just want a great looking watch that works well and is finished well.
> 
> Also, the fact that they have had watches at roughly $900, $1300, $1700, $1900, $3500, $4300, $5000, $9000, $12000 and now $16000 suggests that they're actually trying to not alienate anybody, no?


I am surprised to hear that the finishing of the FF was not up to par, but I trust you in this regard. I mentioned history mainly to deconstruct the price components of the FF (although I do think the FF is also overpriced). You mention the wide price spread of the Ming, which I agree with. But the only piece on offer now is the $16000 one, hence my comment about alienating fans. If the 17.xx was a permanent (or annual anniversary) feature, I would have no problem with them.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Also recognize that Ming couldn't offer a 20.11 at its price as a first piece. There are markers on this journey:

--GPHG finalists/winners HOW many times now?
--technical: the sapphire dial started in the 19-series
--artistic and corporate: skeletonizing and DLC finishing on...I forget which
--extensive cooperation with Schwarz Etienne that has been built up over the last couple years

What Ming did in that period was to say, no, we're not some random startup; we're an extremely serious producer. Customers can trust us. Production partners can trust us. So, yes, they've gone upscale, but even trying to release a 17.09 as a first model would've run seriously afoul of "you expect me to lay out 2 grand on a first-time watch...????" Impossible sell.

Based on Chrono24 prices...they may be optimistic for the seller, but still...Ming's _never_ played in the $1k market, and those of us who scored a 17.01 know we got one of the great steals in watches this millenium. As for anyone else trying to follow their brand trajectory...well, good freaking luck. This is a path VERY few could ever follow, and needed things to be done _right_ at multiple stages along the way.

I'd also say that Ming capitalized on an unusual aspect, for moving up. There's been a serious renaissance on in-house movements, and such movements have gained major momentum. The Swatch Group forced this to kick off, to a degree; they also forced mid-size companies to realize the risk they were at. So Oris and Damasko have their own. Tudor has a partnership with Kenissi for theirs. Richemont has the Baumatic. There has also been a move up-market, where Vaucher and Schwarz Etienne fill in a large void for higher-end pieces. (Does anyone else offer up micro-rotor movements outside their direct corporate universe?) The uncommon opportunity is that SE, like Kenissi, probably actively wanted partners, to get their products and services out there. Ming is a tremendous vehicle for that. (Vaucher get their own huge endorsement: they're providing the movement to the new AP RO 34 mm in black ceramic.)

I would be curious to see a comparison between these mosaic dials, cloisonne dials, and a simpler grand feu enamel dial, on time to produce, cost to produce, and production yields. And ya gotta figure, developing this dial production process was likely not cheap.


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## Zhanming057 (Jun 17, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I am sure the improvements can justify the cost, but I really don't want to condone this kind of behavior. Ming was a precious gem at its below $3000 price level. Now if we encourage it to move up, I think it will be a waste. Do we really need another, no matter how unique, $25k+ brand? Another Moser? The $15k BP dive watch is not exciting, sure. But the finishing, craftsmanship, history (yes, I know, but it is an objective plus) - are all superior to the Mosaic Ming. And the BP also offers soon-to-be obscure features including instant delivery and "try before you buy".
> 
> I don't really care about this release, not my style - so wouldn't get it even if the price was lower, but I feel alienated by the warm reception this piece is getting.


The work that they are doing now (and with the 19 series prior to this piece) are a lot more interesting than their $3,000 watches, which at the end of the day are just ETAs with good case finishing and impressive, but not particularly innovative dial work.

If the work is interesting, and if they are offering something unique, then yes, it would be good to have another $25k plus brand. At the risk of sounding snobbish, I find it difficult to get excited about any watch that's just an ETA and a dial, unless the dial looks like the stuff that comes out of Ematelier...and something with a micro-rotor, actually good movement finishing, and unique dial finishing techniques is a lot more interesting.

The limited release thing bugs me, that I agree. I'm sure Ming can still sell out their production run at $20k. In which case, I would much prefer it if they priced it at $20k and made it available without any of the limited edition nonsense.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I am sure the improvements can justify the cost, but I really don't want to condone this kind of behavior. Ming was a precious gem at its below $3000 price level. Now if we encourage it to move up, I think it will be a waste. Do we really need another, no matter how unique, $25k+ brand? Another Moser? The $15k BP dive watch is not exciting, sure. But the finishing, craftsmanship, history (yes, I know, but it is an objective plus) - are all superior to the Mosaic Ming. And the BP also offers soon-to-be obscure features including instant delivery and "try before you buy".
> 
> I don't really care about this release, not my style - so wouldn't get it even if the price was lower, but I feel alienated by the warm reception this piece is getting.


i'm quite happy their going up, I think this will bode well for the values of the 17.09 since their newer upscale pieces also using the same design language... unless MING came out with a second sub 3K watch with a totally new complication, I don't think I'd have room to add another in that price bracket anyways


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## Rotosphere (Jan 13, 2017)

For any Mingheads who may be interested, I've placed my burgundy 17.03 in auction on eBay.









MING 17.03 GMT Mens Watch 2018 Limited Edition Burgundy Dial Sellita Sw330-1 for sale online | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MING 17.03 GMT Mens Watch 2018 Limited Edition Burgundy Dial Sellita Sw330-1 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





Any questions, just let me know.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Rotosphere said:


> For any Mingheads who may be interested, I've placed my burgundy 17.03 in auction on eBay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Will be interesting to see what it goes for in the end .. seems alot of discussion here and on kurono lately on "sold" vs "sold at" price and then value of these things on the secondary market


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> Will be interesting to see what it goes for in the end .. seems alot of discussion here and on kurono lately on "sold" vs "sold at" price and then value of these things on the secondary market


A blue one went on eBay for $4k a few days ago (looks as though the blue was in better condition than the one belonging to the OP)


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Rotosphere said:


> For any Mingheads who may be interested, I've placed my burgundy 17.03 in auction on eBay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wear my watches and don't have any safe queens but that thing is beat up to the point of were it looks like you ran over it with a car. Sorry but just being honest! And you are describing it as "a few scratches from normal wear."  How in the world do you beat up a watch like that after 2-3 years?


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

christianj said:


> I wear my watches and don't have any safe queens but that thing is beat up to the point of were it looks like you ran over it with a car. Sorry but just being honest! How in the world do you beat up a watch like that after 2-3 years?


It's grade 2 titanium, that doesn't help.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

christianj said:


> I wear my watches and don't have any safe queens but that thing is beat up to the point of were it looks like you ran over it with a car. Sorry but just being honest! And you are describing it as "a few scratches from normal wear."  How in the world do you beat up a watch like that after 2-3 years?


I wonder how to get it polished to get it back to a decent state... Send back to Ming? Do they offer this service at all? If not, could a local watchmaker take care of it?


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

christianj said:


> I wear my watches and don't have any safe queens but that thing is beat up to the point of were it looks like you ran over it with a car. Sorry but just being honest! And you are describing it as "a few scratches from normal wear."  How in the world do you beat up a watch like that after 2-3 years?


Regardless of what this very select crowd thinks of the condition, it already has a bid so sit back and see what the market will bear😬


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I don't hate it, and actually think the design is very refreshing. But I think the price is very questionable. As much as I dislike the brand prestige concept, I find it hard to accept the price as "fair". Considering the direct distribution model, this is basically priced at JLC+ price level. Yes, there are some unique features, like the dial and sapphire hands, ceramic lume etc... But at what point does the mass-produced, design-centric (as opposed to low volume craftsmanship-centric independents) piece with no brand provenance become objectively overpriced? I feel that this release by Ming, if received well, is going to lift the price of microbrands across the board (akin to what Neymar to PSG did to the European football transfer market). If Ming can charge 15k, then Kurono should charge at least half that, and Halios should up the price to 3-4k? It feels like we, as a community, rejected the brand premium of Patek, Rolex, and AP to install our own idols.


A brand becomes overpriced when the market demand says so. Using your JLC reference, a lot of people could argue their prices are overpriced because it doesn't take much research to find out that the market demand for a good amount of JLCs isn't enough to hold that price point on a secondary market. While value retention shouldn't be the only reason one buys a watch, it does help answer your question. Specifically between the price point of a Ming & a JLC, I think the majority of collectors on this thread would prefer the strategy of buying a Ming at retail price rather than buying that same watch on the second hand market- regardless of model size. JLC on the other hand, I would suspect the only collector that would buy a JLC at retail price does so because they want to be the first owner. But looking at the secondary market prices, you'd have an easier argument for the average JLC being considered "overpriced" as compared to the average Ming. Keep in mind this is all focused on your "overpriced" question- it has nothing to do with the watchmaking quality, patents owned, years of business. It's simply a comparison of what the market dictates as "overpriced" for each respective product.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> A brand becomes overpriced when the market demand says so. Using your JLC reference, a lot of people could argue their prices are overpriced because it doesn't take much research to find out that the market demand for a good amount of JLCs isn't enough to hold that price point on a secondary market. While value retention shouldn't be the only reason one buys a watch, it does help answer your question. Specifically between the price point of a Ming & a JLC, I think the majority of collectors on this thread would prefer the strategy of buying a Ming at retail price rather than buying that same watch on the second hand market- regardless of model size. JLC on the other hand, I would suspect the only collector that would buy a JLC at retail price does so because they want to be the first owner. But looking at the secondary market prices, you'd have an easier argument for the average JLC being considered "overpriced" as compared to the average Ming. Keep in mind this is all focused on your "overpriced" question- it has nothing to do with the watchmaking quality, patents owned, years of business. It's simply a comparison of what the market dictates as "overpriced" for each respective product.


My point was to highlight how, in my opinion, Ming Thein has deviated from his initial strategy (which I admired) of producing watches with absolute value to producing watches with relative value (basically differentiating through design). Obviously, this point is very debatable and I did not intend to make an objective criticism. So, I did not take into consideration market value, as that's one factor that can fluctuate post-purchase.

But if we were to consider the market, for the sake of argument, then Ming watches are more "risky". Right now, Mings all trade above retail, but due to the shorter brand (and therefore price) history - one can argue the range of possible future prices is broader (more expected volatility). So, if we consider a desirable JLC LE as an alternative, it will have less expected upside (unlikely to 2-3x) and less expected downside (less chance of a severe loss) in 5-10 years.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> My point was to highlight how, in my opinion, Ming Thein has deviated from his initial strategy (which I admired) of producing watches with absolute value to producing watches with relative value (basically differentiating through design).


I think you miss the fact that there is absolute value in a high end Schwarz Etienne movement, expensive etched sapphire dials, and a pretty challenging manufacturing process. MING has design as a differentiator, but you seem to overlook the fact that these watches are using expensive materials too. This is not a $1000 watch being sold at $15k because it "looks like nothing else".


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## Rotosphere (Jan 13, 2017)

conrad227 said:


> A blue one went on eBay for $4k a few days ago (looks as though the blue was in better condition than the one belonging to the OP)


Yes. And I think it was a 17.06.


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## Rotosphere (Jan 13, 2017)

christianj said:


> I wear my watches and don't have any safe queens but that thing is beat up to the point of were it looks like you ran over it with a car. Sorry but just being honest! And you are describing it as "a few scratches from normal wear."  How in the world do you beat up a watch like that after 2-3 years?


You exaggerate. It's not minty, but it's hardly on its last lugs. At any rate, it will fetch what it will fetch.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Rotosphere said:


> You exaggerate. It's not minty, but it's hardly on its last lugs. At any rate, it will fetch what it will fetch.


Didn't say it was on its last lugs so now you are exaggerating. I guess everyone's definition of "few scratches due to normal wear" is different but at least for me that is more than normal wear based on what I am seeing on the pictures and I would bet most people will agree. Just saying but if you feel comfortable with the description that's all that matters....at least until it sells and the buyer will either agree or disagree with your description of the condition. Good luck with the sale.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I think you miss the fact that there is absolute value in a high end Schwarz Etienne movement, expensive etched sapphire dials, and an a pretty challenging manufacturing process. MING has design as a differentiator, but you seem to overlook the fact that these watches are using expensive materials too. This is not a $1000 watch being sold at $15k because it "looks like nothing else".


No, I agree with you. That's why my point was meant to be subjective, as I don't think all the features you noted are "worth" that much. I think there is a brand premium baked into the price, justified or not. In no way am I comparing this vs 17.xx, as I understand that there is nothing in common except for the name on the dial and design language. A better comparison would be the 19.05, which used a similar movement in a titanium case (no mosaic dial and nitecore torch, but more exclusive and comes with a bracelet). If I am not mistaken the 20.11 is 50% more expensive.

One good point that I missed was R&D cost of all the innovations (although that was supposed to be partially covered by the SPC version of the mosaic dial that came before). If so, we should expect the mosaic dial in a more affordable package down the line.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Does anyone have experience with Customs fees for Ming watches shipped to the US?


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Icelatte said:


> Regardless of what this very select crowd thinks of the condition, it already has a bid so sit back and see what the market will bear😬


Yeah good point there, i would never bid on it in this condition myself....but it seems to already above its original retail already...


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

[


Rotosphere said:


> You exaggerate. It's not minty, but it's hardly on its last lugs. At any rate, it will fetch what it will fetch.


I have this same exact watch, and the titanium certainly is scratched around a bit. Honestly though, I love seeing so many scratches on your Ming- it's great to know these watches are being used and not babied. The 3/6/9 hour markers and gmt complication give off some explorer vibes- and while the brand is known for more dressy/formal models, the scratches will give it a more a rugged look over time IMHO.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Considering I’m new to the Ming owners world (17.09 is my first) how accurate would previous owners say are their shipping estimates? My only experience is with kurono and they seem to play pretty loose with shipping windows/estimates. I’m just impatiently waiting for October, lol. Figured it would be a nice birthday delivery if it hits the month.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Does anyone have experience with Customs fees for Ming watches shipped to the US?


Not with Ming but I just got a Kurono and there is some general discussion in that thread about this topic. To summarize:
Chrono 2 (which cost around $4k) - Approx. $120 total of which $80 was for customs and $40 for DHL fees
Toki (which cost around $2k) - Approx. $80 total of which $40 was for customs and $40 for DHL fees
I think a lot of it depends on the actual customs entry point and the processor since there are report of some not paying any fees on past transactions.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

christianj said:


> Not with Ming but I just got a Kurono and there is some general discussion in that thread about this topic. To summarize:
> Chrono 2 (which cost around $4k) - Approx. $120 total of which $80 was for customs and $40 for DHL fees
> Toki (which cost around $2k) - Approx. $80 total of which $40 was for customs and $40 for DHL fees
> I think a lot of it depends on the actual customs entry point and the processor since there are report of some not paying any fees on past transactions.


Thanks for sharing, it's helpful. I saw somewhere else someone said to factor in about 5.5%. These figures are a little under that, so good to know!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> Considering I'm new to the Ming owners world (17.09 is my first) how accurate would previous owners say are their shipping estimates? My only experience is with kurono and they seem to play pretty loose with shipping windows/estimates. I'm just impatiently waiting for October, lol. Figured it would be a nice birthday delivery if it hits the month.


Yeah in my experiences their quoted time of arrival for my 18.01 was pretty accurate- which was pretty incredible given all the covid shutdowns/restrictions at that time. Some suppliers may still be dealing with covid related impacts, but that was my experience last time.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> Yeah in my experiences their quoted time of arrival for my 18.01 was pretty accurate- which was pretty incredible given all the covid shutdowns/restrictions at that time. Some suppliers may still be dealing with covid related impacts, but that was my experience last time.


My Ming 18.01 was a week early if I remember right!


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> My Ming 18.01 was a week early if I remember right!


Don't give me so much hope!


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## Rotosphere (Jan 13, 2017)

Kevkev1 said:


> [
> 
> I have this same exact watch, and the titanium certainly is scratched around a bit. Honestly though, I love seeing so many scratches on your Ming- it's great to know these watches are being used and not babied. The 3/6/9 hour markers and gmt complication give off some explorer vibes- and while the brand is known for more dressy/formal models, the scratches will give it a more a rugged look over time IMHO.


In all honesty--and I mean that--the pics in the listing don't do the watch any favors. It looks better in the metal than on the monitor. That said, yes, there's certainly some wear and tear on the bezel. With titanium 2, it doesn't take much. My oldest rotation watch--an Elysee Genios--which I've owned for nine years and worn far more often than the Ming, doesn't have a single nick. It's made of stainless steel, dontchaknow.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> Don't give me so much hope!





yellowfury said:


> Considering I'm new to the Ming owners world (17.09 is my first) how accurate would previous owners say are their shipping estimates? My only experience is with kurono and they seem to play pretty loose with shipping windows/estimates. I'm just impatiently waiting for October, lol. Figured it would be a nice birthday delivery if it hits the month.


The 17.06 I got was about three months late but that's pretty good considering it was originally due Feb 2020.

I would anticipate that they will be on time from here on out though, barring any other major unexpected events. In this post they say they are now factoring in extra time in case of potential delays (see last sentence):








On deliveries and lead times


Today, we presented the MING 27.02 and were happy to see it received so enthusiastically. Our existing owners batch is sold out already and we’ll be opening Batch 2 for orders tomorrow at 1PM GMT. Ahead of this, we’ve had some questions about the delivery estimates for the 27.02s that I want to...




ming.watch


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Ming Thein posted some macro photo showcasing the machine-made finishing of the movement on the new 20.11 Mosaic.

While it looks good from a distance, the polished bevels are perfectly flat and end in a sharp break to the frosted tops, instead of the rounded nature of true hand made anglage. Also notice how the machines cannot polish surfaces to the level we call "mirror polishing", as the vertical striations clearly show.










This harks back to singularityseven's review of the 27.01 and the discussion around case finishing. It's not even comparable, the cases are finished to a much higher standard.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Good observation - definitely machine finished. I think hand finishing would result in a much higher price point. For comparison, AP also machine finishes so I don’t think it’s really a fair expectation for the Ming. Sure, you may be able to find hand finishing at this price point, but not super common.

The 19.05 should have similar finishing since it is the same movement, I think? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Rotosphere said:


> You exaggerate. It's not minty, but it's hardly on its last lugs. At any rate, it will fetch what it will fetch.


noticed 3 bids on it now, do you recall the original retail on this model?


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

According to this article it was $1720.








Review: Ming 17.03 GMT - Worn & Wound


Kuala Lumpur, the capital city of Malaysia, is home base to a small “horological collective” called Ming. These six folks are advancing watch design and the use of materials in rather unique ways. Led by photographer, designer, and watch collector Ming Thein, the other five members of the...




wornandwound.com





A black one went on ebay yesterday for about $2500, and that one had the $400 bracelet. Not too much of a bump up above retail.


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## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

Has anyone received their Ming X Massena watch yet? Haven't had any updates on mine

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> According to this article it was $1720.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 17.03 without a bracelet retailed for $1300 and an additional $400 for the bracelet. Not major differences, but best to keep the data accurate.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Some more shots of the blue 17.09 from Eclecticum:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CRWNlW7rRa0/


__
http://instagr.am/p/CRWNpVpLekp/


----------



## Rotosphere (Jan 13, 2017)

golffoxtrot said:


> noticed 3 bids on it now, do you recall the original retail on this model?


It was ca. $1300.

There are 56 watchers for this piece. It will be interesting to see if there's a last-second avalanche of bids. I'm not counting on that, but it's possible.


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

PSA: Multiple shoutouts to Ming in the last worn & wound podcast with Ben Clymer. Ben has a Ming x Massena on order, as expected


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

monsters said:


> PSA: Multiple shoutouts to Ming in the last worn & wound podcast with Ben Clymer. Ben has a Ming x Massena on order, as expected


Wonder if "watch personalities" like Ben have to harass the F5 key in order to get one, like us plebs, if they have one of their plebeian subordinates do it for them, or if they are such "friends and family" of the brand they are allocated one from the get-go.


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

jmariorebelo said:


> Wonder if "watch personalities" like Ben have to harass the F5 key in order to get one, like us plebs, if they have one of their plebeian subordinates do it for them, or if they are such "friends and family" of the brand they are allocated one from the get-go.


Ben must have won the lottery. 😉


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Blue dial is really looking nice so glad I went with it over burgundy .


----------



## TimeIsAConstruct (Sep 16, 2020)

This is by no means a comment to trigger anyone. lol But out of general curiosity, what makes these watches so valuable? I get that I can read the website and all of that, but it's usually better to get the answers from the source.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

TimeIsAConstruct said:


> This is by no means a comment to trigger anyone. lol But out of general curiosity, what makes these watches so valuable? I get that I can read the website and all of that, but it's usually better to get the answers from the source.


The watches are very well designed and there isn't anything quite like them. That brings the initial interest. They're all limited editions so supply is, well, limited. Prices go up accordingly. It then gets to the point that limited supply and high prices actually work the opposite of normal, bringing more people in (aka more demand) because it comes across as exclusive, yet cool and fashionable.


----------



## Rotosphere (Jan 13, 2017)

TimeIsAConstruct said:


> This is by no means a comment to trigger anyone. lol But out of general curiosity, what makes these watches so valuable? I get that I can read the website and all of that, but it's usually better to get the answers from the source.


Basically, Ming has created an aesthetic that is both distinctive and appealing. That's a dam' rare thing.


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

TimeIsAConstruct said:


> This is by no means a comment to trigger anyone. lol But out of general curiosity, what makes these watches so valuable? I get that I can read the website and all of that, but it's usually better to get the answers from the source.


value is a construct


----------



## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

TimeIsAConstruct said:


> This is by no means a comment to trigger anyone. lol But out of general curiosity, what makes these watches so valuable? I get that I can read the website and all of that, but it's usually better to get the answers from the source.


Short answer: because lots of people like them.


----------



## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

singularityseven said:


> Some more shots of the blue 17.09 from Eclecticum:
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Love seeing these real world photos. Really liking the shade of blue.

Looks almost electric. Reminds me of the electric blue Seamaster 2255.80. 









Getting me more hyped to receive my 17.09&#8230; eventually.


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

TimeIsAConstruct said:


> This is by no means a comment to trigger anyone. lol But out of general curiosity, what makes these watches so valuable? I get that I can read the website and all of that, but it's usually better to get the answers from the source.


Designed by a perfectionist

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

TimeIsAConstruct said:


> This is by no means a comment to trigger anyone. lol But out of general curiosity, what makes these watches so valuable? I get that I can read the website and all of that, but it's usually better to get the answers from the source.


I get that Ming might not be the best value in terms of specs for the $ when compared to micros, but as the posters said before, it is about the design. I was not that impressed by them in pictures until I was able to handle one in person. Most people talk about the dial when it comes to Ming, but for me it was all about the case. The finishing on the later 17 series watches punched way above its weight, and the proportions/balance of the case overall was standout - especially in the steel iterations.

I've handled a bunch of higher end watches at meetups and the 17.06, in my humble experience, was the closest thing in terms of wristfeel to my grails (Lange and Journe) for under 5k. I also have to try ophion, as they look like they offer a similar proposition, but don't know anyone with one locally.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Rotosphere said:


> It was ca. $1300.
> 
> There are 56 watchers for this piece. It will be interesting to see if there's a last-second avalanche of bids. I'm not counting on that, but it's possible.


Well you're still way up then considering condition, congrats and we'll played


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> Well you're still way up then considering condition, congrats and we'll played


Have to add that the watchers are probably people like us wanting to see what it goes for hahaha


----------



## Rotosphere (Jan 13, 2017)

golffoxtrot said:


> Have to add that the watchers are probably people like us wanting to see what it goes for hahaha


Up to $1950. Perhaps some poor soul, fearful of missing out, will just plunk down $5200 in the Buy It Now option.

😹


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Rotosphere said:


> Up to $1950. Perhaps some poor soul, fearful of missing out, will just plunk down $5200 in the Buy It Now option.
> 
> 😹


did it go for that?


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

$2326


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> $2326


that's pretty good considering how beat up the watch looks in the pictures (despite the OP saying it looks much better in real life, the pictures are what a prospective buyer sees)


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Meanwhile... that's over 5x list price (assuming buyer paid the seller's asking price).

The 17.06 is doing better than the 27.01 and even some 18.01s on the secondary market.

Any of the 27.02s pop up for sale yet?


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> Meanwhile... that's over 5x list price (assuming buyer paid the seller's asking price).
> 
> The 17.06 is doing better than the 27.01 and even some 18.01s on the secondary market.
> 
> Any of the 27.02s pop up for sale yet?


well that one won the award so........ also the condition is way better.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Cool macro of the 27.02. The dotted edge of the smoked sapphire reminds me of the frits on car windows.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> Meanwhile... that's over 5x list price (assuming buyer paid the seller's asking price).
> 
> The 17.06 is doing better than the 27.01 and even some 18.01s on the secondary market.
> 
> ...


Sorry to jump into this old conversation, but Reserved does not mean that it was sold at that price. Listings often go into "Reserved" mode during a negotiation, and could sell for lower. The 17.06 copper dial is closer to $4-4.5k right now. I only know this because I'm watching this model like a hawk. I think its a great color.



jmariorebelo said:


> Cool macro of the 27.02. The dotted edge of the smoked sapphire reminds me of the frits on car windows.
> 
> View attachment 16015098


I saw this early today on Atom Moore's Instagram. It is an incredible shot, and the "digital fade" pattern makes it even more interesting.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Sorry to jump into this old conversation, but Reserved does not mean that it was sold at that price. Listings often go into "Reserved" mode during a negotiation, and could sell for lower. The 17.06 copper dial is closer to $4-4.5k right now. I only know this because I'm watching this model like a hawk. I think its a great color.
> 
> I saw this early today on Atom Moore's Instagram. It is an incredible shot, and the "digital fade" pattern makes it even more interesting.


Yeah I mentioned that in my post, but I would be surprised if the seller took as much as $2500 off the watch, especially since it was only posted for a few days, no?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> Yeah I mentioned that in my post, but I would be surprised if the seller took as much as $2500 off the watch, especially since it was only posted for a few days, no?


Perhaps 🤷‍♂️ But there's a copper dial in the Sales section right now for $4200 that didn't fly off the shelf as fast as I expected.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Yeah that one posted only a couple of days ago but it sold already, too...


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> Yeah that one posted only a couple of days ago but it sold already, too...


what was the price? (why do you show as "banned" if you just posted this message


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> what was the price? (why do you show as "banned" if you just posted this message


maybe they got banned after posting but before you saw it


----------



## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

Enjoy the design and durability.

To me, I really don't think that far. It's just a good looking watch that makes my day.

Cheers


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Fratello just published their review of the 17.09 - Hands-On With The MING 17.09 In Blue

I'm excited.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Fratello just published their review of the 17.09 - Hands-On With The MING 17.09 In Blue
> 
> I'm excited.
> 
> ...


It looks so good. Glad it's an auto so that I can be at peace with it.

But damn that dial...


----------



## Gazza74 (Jul 27, 2013)

singularityseven said:


> Fratello just published their review of the 17.09 - Hands-On With The MING 17.09 In Blue
> 
> I'm excited.


I really wanted the burgundy dial, but that blue looked so good that I ended up with both. For once it looks like I made the correct choice


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

As much as I appreciate the photographs, that entire article says absolutely nothing about the watch, how it feels, or what the quality is like. And not a single lume shot... really?


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> As much as I appreciate the photographs, that entire article says absolutely nothing about the watch, how it feels, or what the quality is like. And not a single lume shot... really?


Reads like an amateurish hands-on done in 5 minutes. Sadly, not at all surprising....


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Reads like an amateurish hands-on done in 5 minutes. Sadly, not at all surprising....


Yep, horrible writing and 90% of that article could've been written looking at the press release.

That said, I look forward to Eclecticum's review of the 17.09. While his style of writing is less eloquent, I find them to be more informative and definitely paints a clearer picture of the watch.

I recommend checking out his review of 27.02 if you haven't already - Collector´s view: MING 27.02 - two different versions, at least! - the eclecticum


----------



## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

The lume looks really clean and crisp in the macro shots! As does the dial pattern. The color also looks way more exciting than the photos on Ming's site.

I'm very excited! 

Got to start strap shopping for this.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

PuYang said:


> The lume looks really clean and crisp in the macro shots!


Indeed, kinda looks better than the metal hands of the 27.01 singularityseven reviewed.

Interested to see how the sides/underside look under macro, if they are just as clean or suffer from _fromagitis_ like FPJourne and Patek watches usually do...


----------



## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

jmariorebelo said:


> Indeed, kinda looks better than the metal hands of the 27.01 singularityseven reviewed.
> 
> Interested to see how the sides/underside look under macro, if they are just as clean or suffer from _fromagitis_ like FPJourne and Patek watches usually do...


YIKES, that photo made me wince / cringe xD

EDIT: I agree with you about the metal hands. I was never a big fan of that look, skeletonized, thin metal.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Interested to see how the sides/underside look under macro, if they are just as clean or suffer from _fromagitis_ like FPJourne and Patek watches usually do...


I will be VERY surprised if the underside is given any attention on these watches.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Indeed, kinda looks better than the metal hands of the 27.01 singularityseven reviewed.


I'm obviously biased, but I think the hands on the 27.01 are fine. They are intentionally rough/blasted, and will therefore have rough sides/edges. I can't find myself criticizing the finishing on the hands at all actually.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Fratello just published their review of the 17.09 - Hands-On With The MING 17.09 In Blue
> 
> I'm excited.
> 
> ...


Ah, did I choose the color wrong again? The blue looks so dynamic!


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

I think there isn't any wrong color between those two but I am not sure I have made a good decision by sitting on the sidelines cause I got 27.01 🤨


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Rotosphere said:


> For any Mingheads who may be interested, I've placed my burgundy 17.03 in auction on eBay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A 17.03 Red just listed on Chrono24 for about $6k. My guess is it's this watch. They are still using a photo they poached from a review, I messaged them and they said the watch is still going through QC. Condition is listed as 'fair' which seems a good approximation of the watch in question. Should know later this week when they have photos of the actual watch posted.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> A 17.03 Red just listed on Chrono24 for about $6k. My guess is it's this watch. They are still using a photo they poached from a review, I messaged them and they said the watch is still going through QC. Condition is listed as 'fair' which seems a good approximation of the watch in question. Should know later this week when they have photos of the actual watch posted.


oh, so you're not banned after all?

so basically you're saying someone bought his watch on ebay and then is trying to re-flip again? WIll be interesting to get their verdict on the condition which the OP said was way better than the pics indicate


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> oh, so you're not banned after all?
> 
> so basically you're saying someone bought his watch on ebay and then is trying to re-flip again? WIll be interesting to get their verdict on the condition which the OP said was way better than the pics indicate


I got a three day ban. Were you the one who reported me? I didn't know that was against the terms of use but that's cool. I see folks peddling their watches in non-sales threads all the time, which is why I did it. I certainly didn't do anything different from what Rotosphere did when he posted on this thread telling folks to check out his posting on eBay, as far as I can tell, but I don't think he got knocked.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Hey all I included my Ming 17.06 Slate in the Worn & Wound 3 for $5000 Reader's Edition they just published. Would love to hear your thoughts:








The 3 Watch Collection for $5,000 - Reader Edition: Conrad Bauer - Worn & Wound


In this 3 Watch Collection for $5,000 - Reader Edition, reader Conrad Bauer shares an epic trio that presents a challenge to catch.




wornandwound.com


----------



## Gazdaki (Dec 20, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Ah, did I choose the color wrong again? The blue looks so dynamic!


That was my thought too 

Should I buy the bracelet with it?
What are experiences with Ming bracelet?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

There's a good review of the bracelet in this video by one of the other posters in this thread: 





The bracelet goes really well with the 17 series, I have one on my 17.06. You can definitely find some good shots on Instragram. The fit is comfortable, it's easy to use... of course, it's kinda expensive.

Ming watches have two sets of lug holes so you can wear the bracelet quite snug up against the case, so even though the end links aren't fitted they almost are. But the advantage of this is you can wear the bracelet on another watch if you want, I put it on my Grand Seiko and thought that it worked well there, too.


----------



## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

My x Massena just arrived


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## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

Voila!
















Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Looks great. Congratulations. Do you like it?


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> Hey all I included my Ming 17.06 Slate in the Worn & Wound 3 for $5000 Reader's Edition they just published. Would love to hear your thoughts:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool watches, but w&w calling that a 5k collection is disingenuous, and "tricky to find at retail" is outright lying. It's impossible to find at retail. The ming alone will cost any interest parties almost the whole 5k.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> Cool watches, but w&w calling that a 5k collection is disingenuous, and "tricky to find at retail" is outright lying. It's impossible to find at retail. The ming alone will cost any interest parties almost the whole 5k.


I can't imagine why. Aside from some superficial design elements (zero at top, skeleton hands) it looks fairly ordinary. Still, someone will pay $10k for it, so if I managed to get one, I'd instantly flip it and clean up.

It's also one in the eye for the moaners who can't understand why anyone would pay more than $300 (or $30, or $3, or whatever) for something with a bog-standard Sellita in it. The point is, because someone tomorrow will pay more .


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

golffoxtrot said:


> so basically you're saying someone bought his watch on ebay and then is trying to re-flip again? WIll be interesting to get their verdict on the condition which the OP said was way better than the pics indicate


It will definitely be interesting to get the verdict on the condition. I questioned the condition of the watch description in the original post and eBay listing because it definitely looked like it was in worse shape than the "very good condition" the seller used. I would be surprised if the buyer (new seller) doesn't spend some $ to try and do something about the scratches if they are trying to resell that quickly at 3x what they paid on eBay...but who knows.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> Ming watches have two sets of lug holes so you can wear the bracelet quite snug up against the case, so even though the end links aren't fitted they almost are.


I believe that only the 17.06 and maybe the GMTs have two sets of lug holes.


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> I believe that only the 17.06 and maybe the GMTs have two sets of lug holes.


Yes, IIRC they were just a temporary measure to accommodate the old bracelet. Once the new bracelet rolled out (which uses curved springbars), Ming decided to go away from the double lug holes.

Mings look a lot better with curved end straps anyway, so I don't mind.


----------



## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

Already a couple of Massenas on C24 at big mark ups.

https://www.chrono24.com/all/ming-mi...id20333922.htm

https://www.chrono24.com/all/ming-x-...id20318932.htm


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

ryanb741 said:


> Already a couple of Massenas on C24 at big mark ups.
> 
> https://www.chrono24.com/all/ming-mi...id20333922.htm


"Never tried on"

Gotta love how brazenly and shamelessly open these flippers are.


----------



## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

ryanb741 said:


> Already a couple of Massenas on C24 at big mark ups.
> 
> https://www.chrono24.com/all/ming-mi...id20333922.htm
> 
> https://www.chrono24.com/all/ming-x-...id20318932.htm


Well, I cannot lie that it feels good that for once the watch purchase might be a good place to put my money. But it feels good to wear the watch instead of selling it. I like it, it is my first Ming.

Will post pictures when this site works better.


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> "Never tried on"
> 
> Gotta love how brazenly and shamelessly open these flippers are.


It is no more surprising than buying pork belly or orange juice contracts and finding out the owner hadn't even taken delivery! It's a pure asset arbitrage deal, nothing less - and nothing more, either.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




----------



## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

Baramats said:


> Well, I cannot lie that it feels good that for once the watch purchase might be a good place to put my money. But it feels good to wear the watch instead of selling it. I like it, it is my first Ming.
> 
> Will post pictures when this site works better.


Pretty little watch
























And a comparison to my other 38 mm unobtanium watch


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Baramats said:


> Pretty little watch
> View attachment 16027573
> 
> View attachment 16027574
> ...


Have to say, compared to the blue guilloche, this looks rather unimpressive. In photos at least.


----------



## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> Have to say, compared to the blue guilloche, this looks rather unimpressive. In photos at least.


Yes, you are probably right, this dial is more static in varying light compared to the more complex geometric paterns.
But it is a nice watch none the less.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Baramats said:


> Pretty little watch
> View attachment 16027573
> 
> View attachment 16027574
> ...


Congrats! Call me boring, but I love how it looks on the black strap.


----------



## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

The UK one on C24 sold at 3x RRP already


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

ryanb741 said:


> The UK one on C24 sold at 3x RRP already


I didn't realize there is a way to see sold watches on C24. Please advise how you do that.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> I didn't realize there is a way to see sold watches on C24. Please advise how you do that.


There isn't a way to see the exact price a watch sold for. So unless it was a fixed list price, it could've sold for less too.


----------



## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

christianj said:


> I didn't realize there is a way to see sold watches on C24. Please advise how you do that.


It says reserved

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

Have any of you jumped on the 20.11?


“Facts don’t change opinions, influencers do”


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

christianj said:


> It will definitely be interesting to get the verdict on the condition. I questioned the condition of the watch description in the original post and eBay listing because it definitely looked like it was in worse shape than the "very good condition" the seller used. I would be surprised if the buyer (new seller) doesn't spend some $ to try and do something about the scratches if they are trying to resell that quickly at 3x what they paid on eBay...but who knows.


 Hmmm, looks like a different watch actually. The condition is much better. My bad.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

ryanb741 said:


> The UK one on C24 sold at 3x RRP already


There are some Ming fanatic watch collectors out there. @sumeiwatches on instagram has just about every release already. It's a hard streak to maintain when the watches start getting up to $15k a piece and there are releases like the Massena release that were really hard to get in on. But I think they are likely to pay just about anything to stay current with their collection.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> There are some Ming fanatic watch collectors out there. @sumeiwatches on instagram has just about every release already. It's a hard streak to maintain when the watches start getting up to $15k a piece and there are releases like the Massena release that were really hard to get in on. But I think they are likely to pay just about anything to stay current with their collection.


Yep, those people are literally collecting watches, or Ming watches at least. Not just an enthusiast like the most of us.

Honestly, don't envy them, at all.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

@sumeiwatches appears to be a huge watch geek, and I enjoyed her conversation with Tim Mosso. That video also introduced me to Atelier Wen.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> @sumeiwatches appears to be a huge watch geek, and I enjoyed her conversation with Tim Mosso. That video also introduced me to Atelier Wen.


Probably my favourite Talking Watches episode ever, and it's not even from Talking Watches! She's great, well spoken and a real enthusiast. Daniel Dae Kim was another such surprise.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

There appears to be some issues with hand alignment with the MING x Massena watches.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CR63FGpN9BJ/

Looking back to @ryanb741's photographs, it seems like this one is affected too.



ryanb741 said:


> Voila!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Either Schwarz Etienne didn't get the hand alignment right, or the hour hand is drifting. I suspect that this is an issue with the SW330-2 and not SE, since the SW330-1 and ETA2893-2 had complaints of drifting GMT hands too, which they claim to have fixed with the 330-2.


----------



## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

singularityseven said:


> There appears to be some issues with hand alignment with the MING x Massena watches.
> 
> 
> __
> ...


That's mine and it was because the crown was pulled out a bit and I think the quick hour adjust was in between hours. I took some more pics after

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

ryanb741 said:


> That's mine and it was because the crown was pulled out a bit and I think the quick hour adjust was in between hours. I took some more pics after
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


That's good to hear!

Was that yours on Instagram too?


----------



## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

singularityseven said:


> That's good to hear!
> 
> Was that yours on Instagram too?


No. That sucks for that guy and I hope they fix it.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

Actually confirmed mine has the same issue!!! Back to Ming it goes.


----------



## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

Really annoyed


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Y'all got the first watches with this new movement. Sorry that you guys got the bugs. hopefully they get it sorted out with the rest of the 17.09s, they have a lot of those to ship...


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> Y'all got the first watches with this new movement. Sorry that you guys got the bugs. hopefully they get it sorted out with the rest of the 17.09s, they have a lot of those to ship...


It isn't even a new movement, it's a modified one... Haven't heard of any issues with the CWard C63 Sealander and the SW330-2, and they've certainly sold a few hundreds since it was debuted 3 months ago.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Is the anticipated itinerary UK---> Malaysia ---> Switzerland ---> Malaysia ---> UK?


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> It isn't even a new movement, it's a modified one... Haven't heard of any issues with the CWard C63 Sealander and the SW330-2, and they've certainly sold a few hundreds since it was debuted 3 months ago.


Probably better just to take profits without all that hoo-ha of sending stuff around. Tudor experience suggests that an iffy component (or even just a batch of iffy components) makes no difference to the secondary margins obtainable. Mark it up, and scalp away - it's what it was born to do!


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> Is the anticipated itinerary UK---> Malaysia ---> Switzerland ---> Malaysia ---> UK?


That would be awful... But then again, if a release this limited can't be properly QCd and the watches are shipped this misaligned, anything is possible.



One-Seventy said:


> Probably better just to take profits without all that hoo-ha of sending stuff around. Tudor experience suggests that an iffy component (or even just a batch of iffy components) makes no difference to the secondary margins obtainable. Mark it up, and scalp away - it's what it was born to do!


Yeah, if I purchased one and wasn't fully enamored with it, selling would be the best course of action. I'd even sell it at cost just to "disrupt the market"


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> I got a three day ban. Were you the one who reported me? I didn't know that was against the terms of use but that's cool. I see folks peddling their watches in non-sales threads all the time, which is why I did it. I certainly didn't do anything different from what Rotosphere did when he posted on this thread telling folks to check out his posting on eBay, as far as I can tell, but I don't think he got knocked.


no idea what you're talking about at all. I saw a message from you posted a few hours after you posted it and that you were banned and was wondering what happened


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Baramats said:


> Well, I cannot lie that it feels good that for once the watch purchase might be a good place to put my money. But it feels good to wear the watch instead of selling it. I like it, it is my first Ming.
> 
> Will post pictures when this site works better.


yeah totally agree with you here. Its nice to know the value went up even when you wear it. Feels doubly good when you wear it knowing you can part with it later and not lose money


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> Have to say, compared to the blue guilloche, this looks rather unimpressive. In photos at least.


agree with you here, the massena feels like a compromise design vs the normal 17.09 which does full justice to their "new" design language


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> no idea what you're talking about at all. I saw a message from you posted a few hours after you posted it and that you were banned and was wondering what happened


Oh, cool. Sorry, I wasn't sure what happened and didn't know there was some public announcement that I got banned.

basically, on that thread in question I posted that I had one of the watches he was writing about for sale on a certain resale site and suggested he go take a look at it.

But, as I said, I didn't do anything different from what Rotosphere did with his post linking to the eBay listing.

It was a three day ban so now I'm back, lesson learned. 


golffoxtrot said:


> agree with you here, the massena feels like a compromise design vs the normal 17.09 which does full justice to their "new" design language


Same here, plus the other 17.09s don't say Massena Lab on them.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> I saw a message from you posted a few hours after you posted it and that you were banned and was wondering what happened


I've dealt with MING customer service in the past. My watch went directly to Schwarz Etienne and came back to me directly.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

I don't think it's going to get fixed. At all.

This is a known issue of this "pseudo-gmt" movements, and it's usually not a big deal that the GMT hand alignment is not perfect.

However, when you try to trick the world like Ming did and use the GMT hand as the main hour hand, this happens. The tolerance for the hour hand alignment so much tighter.

Welcome all to the world where you need to "pull back" your hour hand from time to time using the first position of the crown.

Ugh, every day that passes I'm less convinced on my 17.09 order.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

guillelle said:


> This is a known issue of this "pseudo-gmt" movements, and it's usually not a big deal that the GMT hand alignment is not perfect.


It was a known issue with the ETA2893 and Sellita SW330-1 but it was supposedly addressed/fixed with the Sellita SW330-2 movement.


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

guillelle said:


> I don't think it's going to get fixed. At all.
> 
> This is a known issue of this "pseudo-gmt" movements, and it's usually not a big deal that the GMT hand alignment is not perfect.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, bummer, am I supposed to know this watch should look like it is drunk? Why can't todays watch media point out these flaws?
I was actually planning on keeping this watch, but if it is not a watch and more of a design experiment then it will leave asap.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Baramats said:


> Hmmm, bummer, am I supposed to know this watch should look like it is drunk? Why can't todays watch media point out these flaws?
> I was actually planning on keeping this watch, but if it is not a watch and more of a design experiment then it will leave asap.


Is yours affected by this issue too?


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Is yours affected by this issue too?


Yes unfortunately 🤪
Note to self: only buy Halios

Edit: if Massena/Ming fixes the issue I am ok with it. It is just boring to have wait a couple of more weeks.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

So that's 3 of these watches at least 

I really hope they learn how to fix the problem for the rest of the series. That'd be a LOT of disgruntled customers.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Baramats said:


> Yes unfortunately 🤪
> Note to self: only buy Halios


That sucks. I just hope MING / Sellita / Schwarz Etienne make this right and figure out a permanent fix before shipping out 2000-3000 17.09s.


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> That sucks. I just hope MING / Sellita / Schwarz Etienne make this right and figure out a permanent fix before shipping out 2000-3000 17.09s.


Yes hopefully they have the resources to fix this for the Massena Lab version as well as for the normal 17.09s.
Although, it would have been better to work this out before shipping ANY watch.


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## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

Massena got in touch, they will arrange for it to go to Schwartz Etienne to sort out, that won't be until 3rd week Aug as Schwartz Etienne are closed for summer hols. It is what it is, Massena have been proactive in trying to sort this.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> It was a known issue with the ETA2893 and Sellita SW330-1 but it was supposedly addressed/fixed with the Sellita SW330-2 movement.


Oh, I didn't know! Thanks for sharing. I wonder how much they've fixed it, though. The video I've seen on Instagram shows the same amount of play than the 330-1...


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## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

Can you share a link ? 

Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

ryanb741 said:


> Actually confirmed mine has the same issue!!! Back to Ming it goes.


Ouch, that is very unfortunate... Can someone explain this a bit more? Ryanb said his didn't have the issue, but then reported back that his did have the issue. @[email protected]

Is the hour hand gradually drifting? So it is lined up properly sometimes, but then de-syncs? Or does it just gradually get off more and more as time elapses? Can you 're-sync' it by adjusting the time?

If this issue is documented / known, why didn't Ming or SE check for it? You'd think if a movement has a specific issue, then each watch assembled would be checked for that exact issue before shipping... is that unreasonable?

---

I also assumed it was common practice that the watch maker would turn the crown ~12 or 24 hours after putting hands on. I did this when I modded my Seiko. Installed the hands lined up perfectly at 12:00. I then turned the crown 24 hours to check it stays aligned.

I also watched my watchmaker who did my Speedmaster Dial / Hands swap turn the crown 12 hours after he installed the hands.


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

ryanb741 said:


> Massena got in touch, they will arrange for it to go to Schwartz Etienne to sort out, that won't be until 3rd week Aug as Schwartz Etienne are closed for summer hols. It is what it is, Massena have been proactive in trying to sort this.


Same here, very good CS calling me up personally and explaining the procedure. Feels even more special in a way.


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## teckel12 (Oct 22, 2019)

PuYang said:


> Ouch, that is very unfortunate... Can someone explain this a bit more? Ryanb said his didn't have the issue, but then reported back that his did have the issue. @[email protected]
> 
> Is the hour hand gradually drifting? So it is lined up properly sometimes, but then de-syncs? Or does it just gradually get off more and more as time elapses? Can you 're-sync' it by adjusting the time?
> 
> ...


That's correct. When you put hands on a watch you always check for alignment very carefully.

This is something quite different. The hour hand seems to be jacked. If you set the hour (middle position) then to 3rd position to set the minute hand. The hour hand will turn for a bit and then just stop, then start moving again. There's some kind of play in the mechanics that just aligning the hands won't fix.


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## teckel12 (Oct 22, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> So that's 3 of these watches at least
> 
> I really hope they learn how to fix the problem for the rest of the series. That'd be a LOT of disgruntled customers.


4 including me. I believe it's all of them.

They also didn't put the strap on correctly. They did buckle side down.


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## noregrets (Nov 21, 2014)

It seems stunning that Ming would be shipping out these watches and literally none of them work correctly...is there something we are missing?


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

Just got mine a few minutes ago. Strange behavior. Setting aside any odd movement in the GMT mode, it seems if I'm in their third position (setting the time) if I go _backwards_ there is a certain amount of turning I can do where the minute hand moves but the hour hand does not. If I go _forward _in time I do not get this (or at least not as much it seems).

So I have been able to center my hour hand with my minute-hand position via Position 2. I'm not sure if this will hold via normal time advancement and it being "off" is just when I use the GMT and/or if I adjust the minute hand slightly (avoiding moving the hour hand as noted above). I did send an email to Massena LAB but have not heard back yet, but it wasn't very long ago.

I'll drop in a photo of me getting the midnight centered.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Hope people also email Ming as well, so they are aware of this issue for other non-massena 17.09 releases too.


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## Eoghan101 (Jun 13, 2014)

I think mine is aligned correctly. It also sets to 12 perfectly aligned.
















Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

ryanb741 said:


> Massena got in touch, they will arrange for it to go to Schwartz Etienne to sort out, that won't be until 3rd week Aug as Schwartz Etienne are closed for summer hols. It is what it is, Massena have been proactive in trying to sort this.


Hmmm... the first red and blue 17.09s are due next month. Hard to imagine that they will be able to troubleshoot this issue before shipping them if SE is on holiday. I think we'll either be getting watches with defective movements or emails about delivery delays...


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

Got an email back from Massena LAB, they misunderstood me in terms of which setting I was in, so I shot them a brief video of the watch where I had it centered at midnight, and I advance it manually to noon and you can see it start to "slip". Upon reaching noon I have to go over 10 minutes past to center the hour hand.

Mr. Massena called me, apologized for the issue, and offered a refund or a repair (denoting the holiday issue precluding immediate repair viability). We discussed some of the footage aspects of the behavior and he asked if I would be willing to wear the watch over the next few days to see if this issue is only during the time setting or if it happens when the watch is running normally. Given I favor repair over return and there's no real time advantage to sending it in immediately I said I'd be happy to do that so I'll keep an eye on it and report back after the weekend.

He did note that I was the fourth person to report an issue thus far and the first from the U.S.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

WwD said:


> Got an email back from Massena LAB, they misunderstood me in terms of which setting I was in, so I shot them a brief video of the watch where I had it centered at midnight, and I advance it manually to noon and you can see it start to "slip". Upon reaching noon I have to go over 10 minutes past to center the hour hand.
> 
> Mr. Massena called me, apologized for the issue, and offered a refund or a repair (denoting the holiday issue precluding immediate repair viability). We discussed some of the footage aspects of the behavior and he asked if I would be willing to wear the watch over the next few days to see if this issue is only during the time setting or if it happens when the watch is running normally. Given I favor repair over return and there's no real time advantage to sending it in immediately I said I'd be happy to do that so I'll keep an eye on it and report back after the weekend.
> 
> He did note that I was the fourth person to report an issue thus far and the first from the U.S.


I'm glad to hear that he's on top of things. I'd like to know exactly what's going on with these movements, but I suspect it'll be a while before SE gets some units back to diagnose them.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Cool watches, but w&w calling that a 5k collection is disingenuous, and "tricky to find at retail" is outright lying. It's impossible to find at retail. The ming alone will cost any interest parties almost the whole 5k.


Thanks, I guess it depends on what you think the goal of the article is. If it's meant to be looking at how different watch collectors/enthusiasts spent their $5000 to get three watches and just admiring how people go about collecting watches, then my submission was valid. But if it's meant to be actual suggestions for folks to go out and buy those watches, then it's not really viable.

Taking the first conceit to the furthest extent, conceivably some OG watch collector wrote about what $5000 got him buying watches forty years ago. Which would actually be kind of cool to see, even if not the least bit attainable.

The 17.09s were a touch over $2000 so the brand itself still has watches that could fit into the format in the future, even if it wasn't the model that I have specifically at this point anymore.

Anyway, they published my submission, so they also seemed to think that it was a worthwhile exercise.


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## Cheymao (Jul 31, 2021)

Hi All -- I received my watch yesterday (black version) and confirmed it also has the misaligned hands issue. Guess it's going back to Switzerland in August.

Also purchased the Blue version and I'm scheduled to receive it early next year, but it sounds like there might be a broader problem with the 17.09s and that might be delayed.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

Cheymao said:


> Hi All -- I received my watch yesterday (black version) and confirmed it also has the misaligned hands issue. Guess it's going back to Switzerland in August.
> 
> Also purchased the Blue version and I'm scheduled to receive it early next year, but it sounds like there might be a broader problem with the 17.09s and that might be delayed.


Interesting - this is the first I am hearing of production delays for the regular run of 17.09s. Did they tell you this during correspondences about the fix or did Ming release a statement?


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## Cheymao (Jul 31, 2021)

monsters said:


> Interesting - this is the first I am hearing of production delays for the regular run of 17.09s. Did they tell you this during correspondences about the fix or did Ming release a statement?


Sorry! This is just conjecture on my part since they all have the same movement and this issue seems to be affecting a lot of the black honeycombs.


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## Eoghan101 (Jun 13, 2014)

Here's another picture of mine. Has anyone else got one without the hand alignment problem. Mine seems to be in sync when I rotate from crown position 2 and 3. Having let it run 24 hours I can't see any misalignment either.









Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

Interesting discussion, I can't help but wonder if Ming would have done better to stick to a standard single position 3 hand movement rather than try something funky with an independent hour hand, as I said some 10-20 pages back, I never really understood the point of it on this watch anyway... 

Still the watches look nice in the pictures that have been shared, hope those of you lucky enough to get one but unlucky enough to encounter a problem get it back swiftly with the issue resolved!


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

monsters said:


> Interesting - this is the first I am hearing of production delays for the regular run of 17.09s. Did they tell you this during correspondences about the fix or did Ming release a statement?


I did get an email from MING this morning (I had forwarded them the video and information I provided to Massena LAB).

They just said Massena LAB was keeping them in the loop regarding my watch issue and for me to work with Massena LAB directly.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

well looks like there's some benefit to being in a later (probably 2022) delivery window after all...


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

atvar said:


> Interesting discussion, I can't help but wonder if Ming would have done better to stick to a standard single position 3 hand movement rather than try something funky with an independent hour hand, as I said some 10-20 pages back, I never really understood the point of it on this watch anyway...


It's not even a proper independently adjustable hour hand, you can only move it forwards, i.e. if you're travelling east, it's usable.. If you travel west, you'll have to go around the full 11 hours. Good thing there isn't a date!


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> It's not even a proper independently adjustable hour hand, you can only move it forwards, i.e. if you're travelling east, it's usable.. If you travel west, you'll have to go around the full 11 hours. Good thing there isn't a date!


It's also two clicks per hour, isn't it? Leaving you with the hour hand floating about 30 mins out of whack on the "odd" clicks?


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> It's also two clicks per hour, isn't it? Leaving you with the hour hand floating about 30 mins out of whack on the "odd" clicks?


Is it? If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised...

Sigh, it really rubs me the wrong way that they got in this predicament just for a marketing brag. This is where I'm struggling to connect with the brand.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

One-Seventy said:


> It's also two clicks per hour, isn't it?


Yes, unless Schwarz Etienne has modified the movement to be otherwise. Here is the SW330-2 GMT hand in action:


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## DariusSolomon (Nov 4, 2019)

So far I don't notice any issue with alignment on my Black dialed version. Seems to be in correct position at each hour and at 12.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

DariusSolomon said:


> So far I don't notice any issue with alignment on my Black dialed version. Seems to be in correct position at each hour and at 12.


That's good to hear. If you were willing, I'd love to see a video of the the hour hand and minute hand in action.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> As much as I appreciate the photographs, that entire article says absolutely nothing about the watch, how it feels, or what the quality is like. And not a single lume shot... really?


Sounds like we'll all be looking forward to your upcoming review then right? Woooo!


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> There's a good review of the bracelet in this video by one of the other posters in this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


FYI not all Mings have two sets of lug holes- only certain models. I have a 17.03 and an 18.01 and only the 17 series has two sets of lug holes.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> Sounds like we'll all be looking forward to your upcoming review then right? Woooo!


Not sure if sarcasm or not, but I will make sure to at least include a lumeshot


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> It's also two clicks per hour, isn't it? Leaving you with the hour hand floating about 30 mins out of whack on the "odd" clicks?


One click per hour on mine.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Not sure if sarcasm or not, but I will make sure to at least include a lumeshot


No no you do an excellent job and bring much needed content from Ming to the masses. Yes the brand is really hard to purchase, but there's such little video footage at this point still. Keep up the good work


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Their website is back up selling straps and the bracelet after a couple of months unable to offer service.

They have a couple of new straps on offer, including a light blue and white rubber strap.

@singularityseven raves about the rubber straps so I will probably pick up a couple. I currently have my 17.06 on the bracelet because Taiwan is super hot like 8 months out of the year. So I'll need something else to wear my 17.09 on during the hot months...

Which one do you think will look good with the red dial? I probably won't get the white one but light blue, dark blue, brown and black are all in play...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> @singularityseven raves about the rubber straps so I will probably pick up a couple. I currently have my 17.06 on the bracelet because Taiwan is super hot like 8 months out of the year. So I'll need something else to wear my 17.09 on during the hot months...


You won't regret getting a rubber strap for it. I'm tempted to pick up the light blue one!


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Just ordered light blue and brown; will post some pics when I get them.


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

Thanks for the heads up - pricey! But will consider. 
Now for the age-old question. Is "50m" water resistance enough for the pool?! 😂


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## DariusSolomon (Nov 4, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> That's good to hear. If you were willing, I'd love to see a video of the the hour hand and minute hand in action.


I'll try to post one tomorrow.


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## gsroppsa (Jan 5, 2013)

My 17.09 has just been delivered by FedEx. Knock on wood, the hands appear to be on their best behaviour and working in alignment. This is my first Ming, and so far it's exceeded expectations in every way. The printed glass is a particularly nice touch, I just adore how much character it adds to an already fascinating timepiece.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

conrad227 said:


> Their website is back up selling straps and the bracelet after a couple of months unable to offer service.
> 
> They have a couple of new straps on offer, including a light blue and white rubber strap.
> 
> ...


I think all of those colors would work well, with brown and black being the most versatile. They are definitely worth the price of admission, and I haven't come across any strap makers yet that have come up with a comparable rubber alternative


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Cool yeah I figured the light blue would be good for some flare and contrast whereas the brown would probably be the best conservative match with the both the blue and the red dial. I will also get the 27.02 later this year which might work better with the black so maybe I'll add that one down the road.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> It's also two clicks per hour, isn't it? Leaving you with the hour hand floating about 30 mins out of whack on the "odd" clicks?


would love to hear from anyone who actually knows


WwD said:


> One click per hour on mine.


nice to hear from someone who knows


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> You won't regret getting a rubber strap for it. I'm tempted to pick up the light blue one!


Where's the famous review for the strap? I need a bit more convincing  so pricey!


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> Where's the famous review for the strap? I need a bit more convincing  so pricey!


OK, just found the youtube video for the 18.01 where you say it's great, but why is it so great?


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> would love to hear from anyone who actually knows
> 
> nice to hear from someone who knows


Which is why I asked, yeah . I guess if the movement is modified to allow one click per hour (rather than half hour) this could be causing the reported problems.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> why is it so great?


It is well constructed, soft and looks neat. Feels more premium than any FKM rubber strap I've owned, and similar to some of the natural or caoutchouc rubber straps I own. Also, I just like rubber straps, so don't take my word for it.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> It is well constructed, soft and looks neat. Feels more premium than any FKM rubber strap I've owned, and similar to some of the natural or caoutchouc rubber straps I own. Also, I just like rubber straps, so don't take my word for it.


I second this. I like rubber straps as well and haven't come across another "strap-like" (i.e., constructed like a normal leather strap) rubber strap that feels better than the Ming/Jean Rousseau rubbers. I like them so much that I now have essentially all the variations except brown, which isn't really my color. They're very supple, comfortable, and premium feeling.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> Which is why I asked, yeah . I guess if the movement is modified to allow one click per hour (rather than half hour) this could be causing the reported problems.


Yeah I didn't mean to come off like that, i think there was a post before yours that was a bit speculative...

I don't think we give them enough credit if we just assume he did a hack for a marketing claim and it failed. Like ming and his team have watch industry experience, and so does schwarz-etienne right, I don't think it a fair assumption that they totally missed out on this issue, perhaps there are some that have some kind of early implementation issue, lets see how it goes as the release becomes more widespread


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

I've released a video walking through my hour-hand failure issue. I've included the footage I sent to Massena LAB (the first where I showed the hour hand falling behind during time-setting and a second, time-lapse video, where you can see it fall behind as the watch runs). I also superposed, early on, some cell phone video I took showing the GMT setting advancing one hour per click. I'll link it below in case anyone is interested.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

It looks like a special DLC black case of the Massena collab also exists, and looks quite nice. This was made for the founder of Monochrome watches.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CSEqk5ZjYaa/


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

WwD said:


> I've released a video walking through my hour-hand failure issue. I've included the footage I sent to Massena LAB (the first where I showed the hour hand falling behind during time-setting and a second, time-lapse video, where you can see it fall behind as the watch runs). I also superposed, early on, some cell phone video I took showing the GMT setting advancing one hour per click. I'll link it below in case anyone is interested.


Thanks for the video! Shows very clearly the issue and answers some questions I had definitively.

Based on your video, it is clear it isn't an issue with installing the hands slightly misaligned. If the 'hour' hand is stopping randomly as time elapses, then it will always become misaligned through normal use regardless of how perfectly aligned the hands were installed.

Really hope they can resolve this issue for everyone who is experiencing this quickly, and hopefully they will learn how to prevent this issue for the Blue/Burgundy releases.

It must be super annoying and frustrating to receive a brand new watch only to have to send it back and wait weeks or longer before it returns. And what about your warranty? (was it 2 years?) Imagine getting a new watch and not being able to use it for a few months. Do watch companies normally compensate by renewing your warranty expiration date?


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> It looks like a special DLC black case of the Massena collab also exists, and looks quite nice. This was made for the founder of Monochrome watches.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CSEqk5ZjYaa/


Could it be just the reflection makes it look that black?


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> Could it be just the reflection makes it look that black?


Nevermind. Just saw the comments


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

PuYang said:


> It must be super annoying and frustrating to receive a brand new watch only to have to send it back and wait weeks or longer before it returns. And what about your warranty? (was it 2 years?) Imagine getting a new watch and not being able to use it for a few months. Do watch companies normally compensate by renewing your warranty expiration date?


Yes, the warranty I received is two years with an official end-date of July 31, 2023. I don't know about what might be normal compensation on warranties... I've never had anyone extend one before due to an issue.

There was one other time I bought a watch and it failed (chronograph and the minute sub-dial would not reset properly). It had to be serviced twice, and it was getting it back and it immediately having the exact same problem that really soured me to the watch. Plus it took two months each time to get it back. That said, it has been fine since then, but my warranty was not extended over the matter.

In this instance of course I'm disappointed but they were not estimating a long time to get the watch repaired, other than the 2-3 week delay before the factory reopens to send it in.


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

WwD said:


> Yes, the warranty I received is two years with an official end-date of July 31, 2023. I don't know about what might be normal compensation on warranties... I've never had anyone extend one before due to an issue.
> 
> There was one other time I bought a watch and it failed (chronograph and the minute sub-dial would not reset properly). It had to be serviced twice, and it was getting it back and it immediately having the exact same problem that really soured me to the watch. Plus it took two months each time to get it back. That said, it has been fine since then, but my warranty was not extended over the matter.
> 
> In this instance of course I'm disappointed but they were not estimating a long time to get the watch repaired, other than the 2-3 week delay before the factory reopens to send it in.


After scouting instagram for people that received it, it truly seems that there's not a single one out there that doesn't have this issue.

Very dissapointed and concerned about my upcoming blue one to be honest.

I've messaged Ming on Instagram about what they're planning to do to make sure this doesn't happen with the rest of the watches. Let's see what they say...


----------



## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Someone needs to talk to Ming and Massena and give them some advice on crisis management...

Now that a bigger fish has posted about the issue, Ming Thein himself has decided to weigh in, and boy it's a car crash! Maybe I'm too critical of the brand by now, but what I got from his replies were a half-assed apology and lots of blame everywhere except on Ming: the shipping caused the issue, people are posting too much about it, they (Ming) are being mistreated...











__
http://instagr.am/p/CSF-VW6llwW/


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> It looks like a special DLC black case of the Massena collab also exists, and looks quite nice. This was made for the founder of Monochrome watches.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CSEqk5ZjYaa/


to be honest, I gave a big "meh" to this one. I'm not sure if its the massena design or what but I could see it looking much better with the standard design. For me the massena design is kinda mixed up designwise,. in between design language iterations, not knowing exactly what it wants to be and this all black version brings that mixed up nature out more


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

When it comes to social media... the only sentiment that comes to mind is that if you live by the sword, you tend to die by it.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

guillelle said:


> Someone needs to talk to Ming and Massena and give them some advice on crisis management...
> 
> Now that a bigger fish has posted about the issue, Ming Thein himself has decided to weigh in, and boy it's a car crash! Maybe I'm too critical of the brand by now, but what I got from his replies were a half-assed apology and lots of blame everywhere except on Ming: the shipping caused the issue, people are posting too much about it, they (Ming) are being mistreated...
> 
> ...


Personally I don't feel that's an unreasonable sentiment from Ming. If there is an issue, they'll fix it or refund, and they ask you to give them a chance to respond.

BUT, in this age of social media, yeah, they should be all over this, in public, going all out to reassure people. That's expected behavior these days (regardless of whether Ming (or I) think it's actually necessary, it's definitely expected) and they seem a bit slow out of the gate....


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

guillelle said:


> Someone needs to talk to Ming and Massena and give them some advice on crisis management...
> 
> Now that a bigger fish has posted about the issue, Ming Thein himself has decided to weigh in, and boy it's a car crash! Maybe I'm too critical of the brand by now, but what I got from his replies were a half-assed apology and lots of blame everywhere except on Ming: the shipping caused the issue, people are posting too much about it, they (Ming) are being mistreated...
> 
> ...


what is wrong with his reply though? everyone getting a refund or have it made right and apology upfront, seems fine to me.

Also there no doubt is an amplification effect on this due to the social media, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that people that are so into watches and details will not have missed this big of an error on 100% of the watches going out


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

I think Ming needs to realize that if you are a brand that got hyped up on social....when you have issues they will also get hyped up on social. They can't just take the good of social and expect to not see the bad when they have problems. It just stands to reason that you have to take the bad with the good. I'm sure they will fix the issues for those that got the watch but in the meantime there is going to be some expected backlash.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

It's pretty clear it's not a hand alignment issue, rather a mechanical issue associated with the decision to mount the hour hand to the modified GMT wheel. 

My guess is that the modification is either not working properly, or perhaps more likely, that the tolerances on the GMT function are not that tight. Originally the GMT function was designed to make one revolution every 24 hours. SE modified it to make one revolution ever 12 hours. Now, I'm assuming (which can be a dangerous thing to do) that the original movement just didn't need to be manufactured to be all that precise when it came to the GMT hand, since small deviations wouldn't be terribly noticeable on a single revolution 24 hour scale. But, when you multiple the rotations by 2, it not only exacerbates the low tolerances, but it also calls attention to it since you're affixing a critical element like an hour hand to the GMT function.

There are a couple other possible explanations that could be at work in the more egregious cases: The modification to convert 24hrs to 12hrs has manufacturing defects, or that it is sensitive to being jostled during shipping. 

Either way, the issue could be remedied if Ming abandons the low utility "jumping hour" capability and simply affixes the hour hand to the normal hour pinion for the regular production 17.09s. I have no doubt this would drive Ming crazy on his own watch since he's a perfectionist. So there's hope that they will make alterations on the production 17.09s, but they may be too far into the production process to reverse course.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Most recent post on IG

.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Either way, the issue could be remedied if Ming abandons the low utility "jumping hour" capability and simply affixes the hour hand to the normal hour pinion for the regular production 17.09s. I have no doubt this would drive Ming crazy on his own watch since he's a perfectionist. So there's hope that they will make alterations on the production 17.09s, but they may be too far into the production process to reverse course.


100% remove the jumping hour hand that only works one way and give us a regular 3-hour ETA or Sellita movement instead of misaligned hands. Over-engineered for no good reason.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

horolo_gy said:


> 100% remove the jumping hour hand that only works one way and give us a regular 3-hour ETA or Sellita movement instead of misaligned hands. Over-engineered for no good reason.


I don't know enough about the various movements but won't that piss off a bunch of people that wanted the jump hour option and thus create yet another outcry?


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

christianj said:


> Most recent post on IG
> 
> .


I was just chatting with Ming Thein on Instagram and he told me whatever the issue is, they'll fix it even if it means delaying shipments a little.

As a future 17.09 owner, that's very reassuring.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

horolo_gy said:


> 100% remove the jumping hour hand that only works one way and give us a regular 3-hour ETA or Sellita movement instead of misaligned hands. Over-engineered for no good reason.


I would be all onboard with this. The jump hour was nice for travelers (and is also a nice feature in modern Omega movements), but if he theoretically said "we have removed this feature for the next batches, and if you want a refund, just ask", I am sure 90% of people would still want the watch.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> It's pretty clear it's not a hand alignment issue, rather a mechanical issue associated with the decision to mount the hour hand to the modified GMT wheel.
> 
> My guess is that the modification is either not working properly, or perhaps more likely, that the tolerances on the GMT function are not that tight. Originally the GMT function was designed to make one revolution every 24 hours. SE modified it to make one revolution ever 12 hours. Now, I'm assuming (which can be a dangerous thing to do) that the original movement just didn't need to be manufactured to be all that precise when it came to the GMT hand, since small deviations wouldn't be terribly noticeable on a single revolution 24 hour scale. But, when you multiple the rotations by 2, it not only exacerbates the low tolerances, but it also calls attention to it since you're affixing a critical element like an hour hand to the GMT function.
> 
> ...


Just wondering if you have any watch making/servicing experience in making the above statements?

I personally don't have any such experience but your logic doesn't line up with my common sense -- because a GMT needs to display twice the number of hours in the same circle, doesn't that mean that the gearing actually needs to be MORE precise than a normal 12 hour hand?

Feel free to correct me if you indeed have the technical knowledge on this.

Also its a quickly noticeable issue, so I would first doubt that its a common issue across all units (considering the experience that Ming and Schwarz-Etienne have), unless as you say its something about the mod that makes it vulnerable to shipping shock). Instead I assume they had pre-production units in the office etc and would've seen such an obvious thing.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

monsters said:


> I would be all onboard with this. The jump hour was nice for travelers (and is also a nice feature in modern Omega movements), but if he theoretically said "we have removed this feature for the next batches, and if you want a refund, just ask", I am sure 90% of people would still want the watch.


Personally, I'd rather have the feature than not, its quite premature to be saying "oh lets take it out to solve the problem" especially since Ming said himself its only a small percentage.

Feels like jumping the gun and throwing out the baby with the bathwater type of reaction


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

After watching WwD's video and reading Ming's response, something does not correlate...

Unless Ming hasn't seen the video that WwD showed to Massena Labs. As the video clearly shows even perfectly installed hands WILL become misaligned while running. Therefore, it is not a simple 'hands were not installed perfectly' issue. So Ming's response of 'they test hand alignment' isn't very reassuring, unless they are testing multiple 24 hour rotations. And saying shipping (bumps, shock, vibrations?) can cause this is silly.

More importantly, I'm curious if this issue does indeed only affect a small portion of the watches sent out according to Ming's statement, and if that is true, *what exactly is the cause for this issue?*

Some people here have stated it is a KNOWN issue for this movement and its GMT hand. If that is the case, wouldn't it affect 100% of the watches? So again, I think all of the info we received so far does not correlate.

Lastly, I have a hard time believing the folks at Ming or SE wouldn't have a few extra 17.09s (or uncased movements) on hand to check. So, have they checked and found no issue? or, if we can assume this issue will affect 100% of the watches, why haven't they seen this issue on their own watches?

Anyway, sorta a rant / thinking out loud. I'm no watch maker, but I personally don't think 'GMT hand doesn't need to be as accurate and therefore this flaw was never addressed on the original movement' to be a valid excuse. In the world of watch making, you'd think they would DESIGN the functions to... function, properly. It's hard to imagine a movement manufacturer being like 'close enough' and be done with it. I guess I personally don't think it makes sense for this to be an issue on the base movement. I think whatever SE did to modify it caused this issue....... :S

Hope they can figure this out and fix it properly. Last thing we want is for them to THINK they solved the issue only for it to pop up again when it reaches the buyers.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

golffoxtrot said:


> Just wondering if you have any watch making/servicing experience in making the above statements?
> 
> I personally don't have any such experience but your logic doesn't line up with my common sense -- because a GMT needs to display twice the number of hours in the same circle, doesn't that mean that the gearing actually needs to be MORE precise than a normal 12 hour hand?
> 
> ...


Just trying to come up with a few logical theories based on an engineering mindset. I have no idea what is really happening. But the movement was tweaked by Ming/SE and it's not a coincidence that the issue is happening with the hour hand where the adjustment was made. I ordered a blue 27.09, so I'm crossing my fingers that it is isolated and can be sorted out.

I can try to explain my thinking more on the 24 hour hand if you want to PM me


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

christianj said:


> Most recent post on IG
> 
> .


Personally I think this response is admirable. If both Ming and Massena follow up on what is promised above, this certainly won't affect my desire to buy from Ming in the future. 
I'm still slightly dubious of the whole jumping hand idea in the first place though, hopefully they'll be a more "standard" 3 hand 17.xx model in the future. Miracles might happen, it might even be cheaper...


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

I guess this brings me back to a previous discussion about Ming vs big brands. I am actually not concerned about the main production 17.09, as I am sure Ming will make it right, one way or another. However, the response to this issue was appalling. Ming Thein blamed partners (shipping companies??) and accused customers of "blowing a low ~5% defect rate out of proportions". As I said before, we as a group (brand supporters) have hyped the brand to a point where it forgot its roots, in just a few short years! Ming even blamed social media for this issue and said they are considering going off social media (can you imagine where would the Ming brand be without social media and endless wrist shots on IG?) Maybe it is just MT being slightly tone-deaf, or maybe it is arrogance, up to each of us to decide. I feel somewhat vindicated in not going for "the new flagship" and I think I will refrain from buying another Ming until a public apology/acknowledgment of the issue from MT.

PS I understand that QC issues can happen at big brands too, but pretty sure they would handle this issue better or at least more gracefully (see the comments under Horomariobro IG post for the masterpiece of PR management). And this attitude predates this issue. When I pointed out to MT that his pictures of the 17.09 show distortions and asked for a way to rectify this in pictures (as he is an acclaimed photographer) I was told he doesn't make watches for IG and to go get a better camera. Fair point, but last I checked I was buying a luxury watch and the last time I faced this type of customer service was in a Soviet-style hospital in Eastern Europe.


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## WastedYears (May 21, 2015)

I have the feeling I may once again regret buying a watch with a Sellita movement in it. 

I hope I’m wrong.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Ah, whatever. They could have fitted a meringue instead of a proper, robust movement and it wouldn't make a goddamn bit of difference. People want what they want, and they've got _unlimited _funds.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> Ah, whatever. They could have fitted a meringue instead of a proper, robust movement and it wouldn't make a goddamn bit of difference. People want what they want, and they've got _unlimited _funds.


hehe glad to see this, i love my resale value high


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> Ah, whatever. They could have fitted a meringue instead of a proper, robust movement and it wouldn't make a goddamn bit of difference. People want what they want, and they've got _unlimited _funds.
> 
> View attachment 16037593


There's a huge gap between the asking price and the actual sale price...

Look at this guy trying to sell a 27.01 in the Rolex Forums, started at 8.5k, brought it down to 6k, and still not selling...






FS: Ming 17.06 Slate - Mint/Full Set - Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum


FS: Ming 17.06 Slate - Mint/Full Set For Sale: NON-ROLEX watches



www.rolexforums.com


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I feel somewhat vindicated in not going for "the new flagship" and I think I will refrain from buying another Ming until a public apology/acknowledgment of the issue from MT.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Also, while MING could've handled the Instagram s**t storm better (by not handling it at all), it felt to me like it was done with the intention of stirring up a s**t storm. As much as I love @horomariobro's Instagram content, it was a bit unnecessary to take to public naming and shaming before at least giving the brand an opportunity to rectify their mistake.

If you read through the comments, you'll see that MT requests him/her multiple times to provide his info, so that they can issue him/her a refund or a return label, but he/she deflects each time and ends up saying "in a month or so". This felt more like a "look i found a mistake in my MING, so let's ride the bandwagon of shaming the brand" and not "I'm trying to get this fixed, but MING won't work with me"

A)







\
B)









C)


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I do think MT could've approached this situation with a cooler head, and some of the responses came off as passive aggressive. But if you look at what an absolute s**tshow that thread was, the aggressive response looked more like a defensive one to me.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CSF-VW6llwW/


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

guillelle said:


> There's a huge gap between the asking price and the actual sale price...
> 
> Look at this guy trying to sell a 27.01 in the Rolex Forums, started at 8.5k, brought it down to 6k, and still not selling...
> 
> ...


There's a 17.06 Slate posted on eBay in the UK for under $4k









Ming 17.06 Copper Slate Watch Full Set Limited Edition Of 200 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Ming 17.06 Copper Slate Watch Full Set Limited Edition Of 200 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





Seller also recently lowered the price...


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> View attachment 16037903


Ok, this is a step in the right direction. But I wasn't talking about the alignment issue, but more about how they handled it. You can not deny that repeating that "only a small %" has been affected is not the right way to go. I won't go as far as saying Ming attacked Horomariobro, but MT definitely took the post personally. Horomario doesn't single out Ming by any means - his profile is full of Pateks and Lange with finishing issues. Also, I don't think "letting the brand make it right first" is correct. Because if so, we would only be getting (kinda already do) praises without any criticisms. You and Horomario are actually high on my Trust List for pointing out both the good and bad (or at least it seems so).


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> There's a 17.06 Slate posted on eBay in the UK for under $4k
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tempting!


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Also, while MING could've handled the Instagram s**t storm better (by not handling it at all), it felt to me like it was done with the intention of stirring up a s**t storm. As much as I love @horomariobro's Instagram content, it was a bit unnecessary to take to public naming and shaming before at least giving the brand an opportunity to rectify their mistake.
> 
> If you read through the comments, you'll see that MT requests him/her multiple times to provide his info, so that they can issue him/her a refund or a return label, but he/she deflects each time and ends up saying "in a month or so". This felt more like a "look i found a mistake in my MING, so let's ride the bandwagon of shaming the brand" and not "I'm trying to get this fixed, but MING won't work with me"
> 
> ...


I don't think it's fishy that he wants to wear the watch for a while first. If it was me, and the alignment doesn't bother me THAT much, I would keep it to wear for a month or so. Then while it is in service, I will work on some strap ideas, etc. I did read this thread, and yes it is a ****storm. But then, it is his profile, he "reviews" watches - I wouldn't blame him for being blunt about the issue. Some other commenters were... less civilized for sure.

PS Ming's responses kinda strike me as "send it to us so we fix it then you shut the f up, deal?" kind of response. I think that is unfair. If I don't like a GS I just bought and I vent about it on my personal IG profile, it's my right. If GS jumps into my profile and tells me to send it to them now, cause "we can't fix it for you if you don't send it" - that would strike me as them trying to bury the problem. Even if they make it right by me, I still have a right to criticize the product, right?


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Agree that is not such a disastrous situation, but still could have been handled much better. My problem is how all of these "small" issues add up and are affecting negatively my perception of the brand, with very little on the upside to compensate. Off the top of my head:

Boasting about the 17.09 having a jumping setting for the hour hand just to figure out that is just a trick modifying an off-the-mill, low-grade Sellita caliber. Still don't understand why this feature was needed in the first place for a watch without seconds hand or minute markers... 
Releasing the Massena 17.09 after the deceitful communication that implied that the blue/burgundy 17.09 was "the last of the 17.x series". Also, Massena watches shipping earlier than the blue/burgundy.
The complete disaster of the Massena release and ordering process. While this was mainly Massena's responsibility, Ming just played along, especially with that BS about the issues coming from a DDoS. The email lottery was a sham.
Delivering the Massena 17.09 without proper QA. There are at least 10 identified, but who knows how many more? There's even a chance that all models could be affected
Their public approach to the hand alignment issue ranges from asking international customers to pay for shipping at the beginning, to silence (where's Massena's statement), to blaming the owners for posting, to blaming shipping companies (like, really?!) and finally to begrudginly acknowledging the SNAFU
The arrogant and entitled communication style in social media from Ming official account, but also Ming and Magnus' personal accounts. There's even a few comments about nasty DMs being sent to owners

None of these in isolation would be a big thing, but man they are piling up.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Also, we've heard Ming say a few times that a solid caseback is the way to go when "there is nothing to see". I guess he was right. Someone opened up their Massena 17.09 and the sight is, well, unappealing to say the least:










Source:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CSGx0hZlcF3/


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Well, in Ming's defense, a basic Selita or ETA movement really is nothing much to see unless additional finishing is applied... so, not sure what the person was expecting when opening it? Sorta just looking for more reasons to bash the watch at that point no?

Also, having a Ming text/logo engraved on the rotor does absolutely nothing considering you wouldn't see it. And if you did see it, it's not like the addition of a engraved logo would suddenly make the movement interesting to look at.

I don't think Ming's responses are overly rude. It is really difficult to know someone's tone through text. It IS silly and made me chuckle that he says shipping can cause this type of issue, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt in that he is just trying to cover all of his bases. (Which he listed numerous potential reasons that can cause this issue).

The only part I'm not satisfied (but not angry) about is that he didn't really address the actual issue of the movement (unless he REALLY doesn't know... But he really should at this point).

I again, point to WwD's video documenting the issue clearly. Because the Instragram posts above showing a photo with a line drawn through to show its misaligned does not actually clarify the issue. So people who AREN'T aware, will just keep speculating or being appalled at the horrible hand installation, etc, adding unnecessary fuel to the fire.

And the instagram post right above is in such poor taste. "The hands alignment issue is so funny." "Shouldn't the brand name be Selita, not Ming? " "Is it a 3k watch?" Considering you bought the watch... are you calling yourself a fool? Also hashtag rolex hashtag hodinkee xD


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Ming's claim is that they had this modification of the SW330-2 made exclusively for Ming by SE, so a small branding somewhere from either party shouldn't be that crazy to expect. At least sign the rotor or a bridge. The fact that is hidden does not mean that no decoration or extra effort should be expected... This is the cost-cutting approach, not the refined/independent watchmakers approach.

And I don't think there's any point in bashing the guy that posted the photo on Instagram. On the contrary, I really appreciate that they take the time to share. Oh and "adding fuel to the fire"? Well, this fire is 100% Mings fault, and it would have been really easy to prevent. So the whole attitude of "pretend this is not an issue and let them fix it and get away with it" is not cutting it for me.



PuYang said:


> Well, in Ming's defense, a basic Selita or ETA movement really is nothing much to see unless additional finishing is applied... so, not sure what the person was expecting when opening it? Sorta just looking for more reasons to bash the watch at that point no?
> 
> Also, having a Ming text/logo engraved on the rotor does absolutely nothing considering you wouldn't see it. And if you did see it, it's not like the addition of a engraved logo would suddenly make the movement interesting to look at.
> 
> ...


----------



## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

guillelle said:


> Also, we've heard Ming say a few times that a solid caseback is the way to go when "there is nothing to see". I guess he was right. Someone opened up their Massena 17.09 and the sight is, well, unappealing to say the least:
> 
> View attachment 16037974
> 
> ...


Well, next open up a Rolex and see the same, then add 00 again on the price


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Erm... agree that Rolex does not excel at movement decoration, but I don't think an off-the-mill ETA/Sellita stands the comparison on finishing (let alone timekeeping) with any modern Rolex watch.

And the problem comes when is no longer adding "00" to the price (that'd mean 100x more expensive), but when Ming is selling these watches on 1/4th of the price of a DJ.



Baramats said:


> Well, next open up a Rolex and see the same, then add 00 again on the price


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

guillelle said:


> There's a huge gap between the asking price and the actual sale price...
> 
> Look at this guy trying to sell a 27.01 in the Rolex Forums, started at 8.5k, brought it down to 6k, and still not selling...
> 
> ...


I've no doubt, but I was talking about the interest in returns being a deciding factor for many. It doesn't matter how crap the movement is; people will still pay (see Tudor GMT for details!). It's no longer about that, if brand power is high enough.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Also, while MING could've handled the Instagram s**t storm better (by not handling it at all), it felt to me like it was done with the intention of stirring up a s**t storm. As much as I love @horomariobro's Instagram content, it was a bit unnecessary to take to public naming and shaming before at least giving the brand an opportunity to rectify their mistake.
> 
> If you read through the comments, you'll see that MT requests him/her multiple times to provide his info, so that they can issue him/her a refund or a return label, but he/she deflects each time and ends up saying "in a month or so". This felt more like a "look i found a mistake in my MING, so let's ride the bandwagon of shaming the brand" and not "I'm trying to get this fixed, but MING won't work with me"
> 
> ...


agree with you, clearly he was doing it get more followers


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I don't think it's fishy that he wants to wear the watch for a while first. If it was me, and the alignment doesn't bother me THAT much, I would keep it to wear for a month or so. Then while it is in service, I will work on some strap ideas, etc. I did read this thread, and yes it is a ****storm. But then, it is his profile, he "reviews" watches - I wouldn't blame him for being blunt about the issue. Some other commenters were... less civilized for sure.
> 
> PS Ming's responses kinda strike me as "send it to us so we fix it then you shut the f up, deal?" kind of response. I think that is unfair. If I don't like a GS I just bought and I vent about it on my personal IG profile, it's my right. If GS jumps into my profile and tells me to send it to them now, cause "we can't fix it for you if you don't send it" - that would strike me as them trying to bury the problem. Even if they make it right by me, I still have a right to criticize the product, right?


Well Ming just wanted to get to the bottom of it and i don't blame him. After all the other guy is clearly stringing him along to cultivate his follower base...


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> Well Ming just wanted to get to the bottom of it and i don't blame him. After all the other guy is clearly stringing him along to cultivate his follower base...


I agree too, I think Ming's response is perfectly reasonable.

BUT, unfortunately, if you cultivate an instragram following, this kind of thing is par for the course. Personally I think Ming (the brand) should hire a social media manager and Ming (the man) should step back from doing it himself, he obviously doesn't enjoy it, and the kind of post that comes across as reasonable if you think it through can come across as confrontational when re-shared and re-posted with commentary.

Hopefully when the fuss has died down, Ming will make a blog post explaining what the issue was, how many watches it affected and why, and how it'll be avoided in future. Then we can all stop speculating


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> Well Ming just wanted to get to the bottom of it and i don't blame him. After all the other guy is clearly stringing him along to cultivate his follower base...


I guess you are not aware who @horomariobro is or what are his contributions to the watch loving community. It's just ludicrous to assume that his post was some sort of a click bait to gain followers.

I'd recommend you to take a look at his most recent post where he discusses his experience with other brands.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

For all of you that think that Mong's reply is perfectly reasonable... 

Since when it's ok that any brand owner or representative tells a customer what they should post about the brand and that they shouldn't "cry wolf" unless they get in touch with them?

Who the big F does Ming Thein think he is to tell his customers what to do?

Also, enough with "all that Ming was trying to do is getting to the bottom of the issue". 

Do you really think he didn't know by then? There were at least 10 people complaining about the issue for a few days before Horomario. They had enough time to check what was happening. Come on, a few of us on this very post already hinted that the issue was not about hand alignment on the assembly, but an issue with their genious idea of repurposing the GMT hand.

If by yesterday Ming Thein still wasn't aware of this, it would speak volumes about his watchmaking knowledge. Sadly, the most probable situation is that he did know, but still was trying to avoid acknowledging the issue.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

guillelle said:


> Since when it's ok that any brand owner or representative tells a customer what they s





guillelle said:


> I guess you are not aware who @horomariobro is or what are his contributions to the watch loving community. It's just ludicrous to assume that his post was some sort of a click bait to gain followers.
> 
> I'd recommend you to take a look at his most recent post where he discusses his experience with other brands.


No i'm familiar.

Look at it this way. If I bought something from you, there's an issue with it, then I should take it up with you.

Now, if I took it up with you and I'm not satisfied with the resolution, then ok sure complain on social or find a way to bring more gravitas to the situation.

But he didnt take it up with him and the brand still offered complete refund/repair, so broadcasting it in a prolonged way is definitely clamoring for attention.

BTW, he has a right to do this, he has a ton of followers, work invested in the hobby, no doubt he gets something out of being a "player" in this scene, and in order to be someone you need an audience, that's how the digital game is played these days. So I don't blame him for playing the game, but I do call it as I see it.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

guillelle said:


> For all of you that think that Mong's reply is perfectly reasonable...
> 
> Since when it's ok that any brand owner or representative tells a customer what they should post about the brand and that they shouldn't "cry wolf" unless they get in touch with them?
> 
> ...


You can only talk about what people actually said. Its quite clear from your other posts you have a totally hate-on for the guy now, that's up to you I guess.

For me, I find often a company will learn about an issue but will gather facts before issuing a public statement, there's nothing nefarious in that.

I give them the benefit of the doubt that this issue did not show up in their pre-production samples and only discovered after launch (otherwise they would diagnose with what they have already).

Therefore I think its "ok" for him to simply push for the most productive way forward, which is getting an affected sample and doing a diagnosis. In fact, this is the best approach also for everyone who actually ordered a watch (inclduing me). Somehow, excessive instagram posts don't seem to help much with everyone's worries, the only purpose they serve is to get more eyeballs on the guy's content.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> No i'm familiar.
> 
> Look at it this way. If I bought something from you, there's an issue with it, then I should take it up with you.
> 
> ...


So getting a new watch and showcasing its qualities/finishing is fine, but if you do the same with the flaws (as horomariobro has extensively done with Patek, FPJ and even Gronefeld and Voutilainen) it's clamouring for attention?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

golffoxtrot said:


> Look at it this way. If I bought something from you, there's an issue with it, then I should take it up with you.
> 
> Now, if I took it up with you and I'm not satisfied with the resolution, then ok sure complain on social or find a way to bring more gravitas to the situation.


On the one hand I agree with you BUT we have to realize that if a brand mainly engages with their fans on social and does everything including their sales online then one has to assume the people are going to voice their issues in those forums as well. Like it or not (or agree with it or not)...that's how things are done now. People have learned quickly that putting something on social or online sometimes gets a quicker response.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

guillelle said:


> Also, we've heard Ming say a few times that a solid caseback is the way to go when "there is nothing to see". I guess he was right. Someone opened up their Massena 17.09 and the sight is, well, unappealing to say the least:
> 
> View attachment 16037974
> 
> ...


I mean, of course? How is this a surprise to you? That's what the movement looks like.

My recent monta noble has a Selitta movement and display case back and that's what is on display for the most part.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

christianj said:


> On the one hand I agree with you BUT we have to realize that if a brand mainly engages with their fans on social and does everything including their sales online then one has to assume the people are going to voice their issues in those forums as well. Like it or not (or agree with it or not)...that's how things are done now. People have learned quickly that putting something on social or online sometimes gets a quicker response.


Well, except that this 'bro guy has no interest in getting a quicker response, or really any response, because he's refusing to do anything that could actually get him a substantive response.

Talk about a tempest in a teapot caused by blowing hot air. He's going to hang on to it for a month? Right, because he's found a clickbait issue that he figures he can milk for about that long. If he sends it back and gets it fixed, what will he have to post about? How boring: "My watch had an issue and they fixed it." Well, that won't build your follower base, will it?

This is the dark side of social media, and there's no reason to legitimize or normalize this sort of BS.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> So getting a new watch and showcasing its qualities/finishing is fine, but if you do the same with the flaws (as horomariobro has extensively done with Patek, FPJ and even Gronefeld and Voutilainen) it's clamouring for attention?


Look, we all read his content for a reason right, and he's feeding into that. Its an opportunity for him to get more eyeballs. Like I said, all power to him, but lets keep it in context, don't think Ming is doing anything particular bad here. Just the OP seems to hate him now for a bunch of small subjective reasons, so fine, but that's one persons opinion and far from the large scale brand damage that he seems to be implying has been done.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> No i'm familiar.
> 
> Look at it this way. If I bought something from you, there's an issue with it, then I should take it up with you.
> 
> ...


100% agree with you.



jmariorebelo said:


> So getting a new watch and showcasing its qualities/finishing is fine, but if you do the same with the flaws (as horomariobro has extensively done with Patek, FPJ and even Gronefeld and Voutilainen) it's clamouring for attention?


Pointing out flaws is good. But so is giving the brand a fair chance to respond and actually fix the flaw on your watch, when they show every sign of wanting to do so.

I think horomariobro is perfectly entitled to post whatever he /she likes, but it's *all *clamouring for attention, whether positive or negative. That is what social media is, almost by definition. It doesn't make it bad, it's just what the game is about, post something controversial, get more eyeballs.



christianj said:


> On the one hand I agree with you BUT we have to realize that if a brand mainly engages with their fans on social and does everything including their sales online then one has to assume the people are going to voice their issues in those forums as well. Like it or not (or agree with it or not)...that's how things are done now. People have learned quickly that putting something on social or online sometimes gets a quicker response.


.. and this is the point that's really key to me. If Ming (the brand) want to get sales through social media, they need to play the game better. Horomariobro is going to keep on doing whatever he/she is doing now, and being successful at it. Ming need to factor this kind of thing into their customer engagement strategy.

(Incidentally, actually starting a watch brand and launching award multiple winning watches that sell out in seconds is more significant, in my opinion, than having a lot of followers on instagram. All things being equal, I'd value Ming's opinion over horomariobro's. But that's just my opinion.)


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

AnonPi said:


> Well, except that this 'bro guy has no interest in getting a quicker response, or really any response, because he's refusing to do anything that could actually get him a substantive response.
> 
> Talk about a tempest in a teapot caused by blowing hot air. He's going to hang on to it for a month? Right, because he's found a clickbait issue that he figures he can milk for about that long. If he sends it back and gets it fixed, what will he have to post about? How boring: "My watch had an issue and they fixed it." Well, that won't build your follower base, will it?
> 
> This is the dark side of social media, and there's no reason to legitimize or normalize this sort of BS.


Yes, 100% agree on your last line. He could be a more positive force, like how some other guy on this thread had posted the video and talked about his dialog with massena and what they asked him to test etc etc. but yeah it probably wont buy as many clicks as leaving the complaint open and dragging the brand through the mud for a month


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## smalleq (Jul 15, 2014)

golffoxtrot said:


> agree with you, clearly he was doing it get more followers


He has plenty of followers, I doubt that was his motivation.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

atvar said:


> 100% agree with you.
> 
> Pointing out flaws is good. But so is giving the brand a fair chance to respond and actually fix the flaw on your watch, when they show every sign of wanting to do so.
> 
> ...


Success means little if you have a conflict of interest. I wouldn't go to Putin for a honest opinion on Russia, despite his "accomplishments"

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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

atvar said:


> a





RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Success means little if you have a conflict of interest. I wouldn't go to Putin for a honest opinion on Russia, despite his "accomplishments"
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Really, and why? Given his knowledge of the subject matter, wouldn't be important to consider his opinion?


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Success means little if you have a conflict of interest. I wouldn't go to Putin for a honest opinion on Russia, despite his "accomplishments"
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


... and people who post on instagram have a vested interest in controversy. Do the two cancel out? I don't know.... Hence "all other things being equal" 

In this particular case, I'll reach a final judgement once there's a clear picture of what the problem is, and if everyone who was affected got their watch back fixed, or not. Until then, it's all provisional.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> Yes, 100% agree on your last line. He could be a more positive force, like how some other guy on this thread had posted the video and talked about his dialog with massena and what they asked him to test etc etc. but yeah it probably wont buy as many clicks as leaving the complaint open and dragging the brand through the mud for a month


His account specializes in pointing out flaws, so that's what he was doing. He is also entitled to keep the watch and send it in later. Nothing from his actions seems wrong to me. And I don't think he was that negative about Ming either, until MT decided to jump into his comment section.

I really don't blame Ming for the issue (production issues happen and they said they will rectify it), but the response could have been more level headed. I am sure if Ming just contacted him privately and politely offered to fix the issue, Mario would make a post about great Ming customer service instead. On a positive note - I think MT will work hard to make sure the upcoming 17.09s won't have this issue (if it is at all fixable)

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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

smalleq said:


> He has plenty of followers, I doubt that was his motivation.


well you're technically right, as I should have used a more general term like "attention or eyeballs". But its clear that the does what he does to increase his "presence" on social (in whatever technical way you want to measure that)


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> Really, and why? Given his knowledge of the subject matter, wouldn't be important to consider his opinion?


Opinion, yes. But would take it with a grain of salt. Same goes for MT.

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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> well you're technically right, as I should have used a more general term like "attention or eyeballs". But its clear that the does what he does to increase his "presence" on social (in whatever technical way you want to measure that)


The question is&#8230; would anybody here accuse him of trying to get attention when he was pointing out flaws in FPJ and Pateks? Ming shouldn't be above fair criticism. At the end of the day, Ming is still a social media darling - would be nice if he at least recognizes that instead of "considering to take the brand out of all social media because we are being unfairly targeted"

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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> His account specializes in pointing out flaws, so that's what he was doing. He is also entitled to keep the watch and send it in later. Nothing from his actions seems wrong to me. And I don't think he was that negative about Ming either, until MT decided to jump into his comment section.
> 
> I really don't blame Ming for the issue (production issues happen and they said they will rectify it), but the response could have been more level headed. I am sure if Ming just contacted him privately and politely offered to fix the issue, Mario would make a post about great Ming customer service instead. On a positive note - I think MT will work hard to make sure the upcoming 17.09s won't have this issue (if it is at all fixable)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I also think he's entitled to keep the watch for however long he wants, but if his purpose is to help everyone invested in the watch (ming, buyers etc.) then he would send it in. If his priorities lies elsewhere (attracting attention) then the behavior he has chosen is the more likely response.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't fault him for it, he's just playing the social media game. (and negative stuff does attract eyeballs). When I say positive, I mean constructive, I don't mean as a judgement on good or bad.

When ming jumped into his comment section (which I don't think is a bad thing to do either), it does expose horobro's motive more though (at least to some of us) which in my perspecitve is a good way for Ming to defend his brand. Everyone knows the refund is available and so can buy with confidence.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> The question is&#8230; would anybody here accuse him of trying to get attention when he was pointing out flaws in FPJ and Pateks? Ming shouldn't be above fair criticism. At the end of the day, Ming is still a social media darling - would be nice if he at least recognizes that instead of "considering to take the brand out of all social media because we are being unfairly targeted"
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, I'm not aware if this sequence of events has happened before? Like a brand says, ok sent to us we'll fix or refund you and he keeps going on about the issues and doesn't even give them contact info? If he did this to Patek, I would even more so say that he's trying to get attention (and leverage Patek's much more powerful brand to do so)


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> His account specializes in pointing out flaws, so that's what he was doing. He is also entitled to keep the watch and send it in later. Nothing from his actions seems wrong to me. And I don't think he was that negative about Ming either, until MT decided to jump into his comment section.
> 
> I really don't blame Ming for the issue (production issues happen and they said they will rectify it), but the response could have been more level headed. I am sure if Ming just contacted him privately and politely offered to fix the issue, Mario would make a post about great Ming customer service instead. On a positive note - I think MT will work hard to make sure the upcoming 17.09s won't have this issue (if it is at all fixable)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ming already contacted him and offered to fix the issue, but he doesn't want to get it fixed, he wants to get more mileage out of it. Sure, he's "entitled" to do nothing about getting it fixed, but he's not entitled to say anything more about Ming or this watch if he's refusing to allow them to fix it.


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> The question is&#8230; would anybody here accuse him of trying to get attention when he was pointing out flaws in FPJ and Pateks? Ming shouldn't be above fair criticism.


Sure, if he refused to let them fix it so he could milk the issue. Anything after they begged him to let them fix it is not fair criticism.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> I also think he's entitled to keep the watch for however long he wants, but if his purpose is to help everyone invested in the watch (ming, buyers etc.) then he would send it in. If his priorities lies elsewhere (attracting attention) then the behavior he has chosen is the more likely response.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, I don't fault him for it, he's just playing the social media game. (and negative stuff does attract eyeballs). When I say positive, I mean constructive, I don't mean as a judgement on good or bad.
> 
> When ming jumped into his comment section (which I don't think is a bad thing to do either), it does expose horobro's motive more though (at least to some of us) which in my perspecitve is a good way for Ming to defend his brand. Everyone knows the refund is available and so can buy with confidence.


I would keep it to wear for a while too, before sending it in. And yes, refund is available, but would you be ok with having your funds locked up for a year and then get a refund? I think pointing out flaws is constructive, regardless of the form it takes.

And MT jumping into his comment section&#8230; I don't know - high risk customer service strategy, to put it mildly. DM'ing might have been a smarter move.

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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> Sure, if he refused to let them fix it so he could milk the issue. Anything after they begged him to let them fix it is not fair criticism.


I think it can be. If the brand makes it right by me, I am still entitled to criticize them for sending me a faulty product (obv with full transparency on all the interactions with the brand)

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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I think it can be. If the brand makes it right by me, I am still entitled to criticize them for sending me a faulty product (obv with full transparency on all the interactions with the brand)


Really?! Repeatedly criticize them for the same thing over and over while refusing to let them fix it. No, I don't think so. Only a jerk does that.


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I think pointing out flaws is constructive, regardless of the form it takes.


Again, I think your perspective couldn't be more flawed. The form is everything in criticism. This 'bro guy isn't interested in constructive criticism, he just wants to keep eyeballs on his account while he repeatedly trashes someone's reputation while not allowing them to do anything about the issue he's complaining about. That's being destructive to promote yourself.

If he wanted to do something constructive, the watch would already be on its way back and he'd be documenting the process. But, not nearly as attention grabbing as being "provocative".

These kind of "influencers" are the bane of the internet, and utterly worthless.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

He would be "trashing ming's reputation" if he was lying. He isn't. He's merely documenting facts in photos. 

Lying is what MT did when he deflected the blame to the costumers and the shipping company, knowing full well that's not the cause of a movement that drags the hour hand by 15 mins every hour.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I would keep it to wear for a while too, before sending it in. And yes, refund is available, but would you be ok with having your funds locked up for a year and then get a refund? I think pointing out flaws is constructive, regardless of the form it takes.
> 
> And MT jumping into his comment section&#8230; I don't know - high risk customer service strategy, to put it mildly. DM'ing might have been a smarter move.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


that's hypothetical on what might happen after a year though, clearly this guy hasn't waited for a year. And given how he's reacting now, I assume a DM would just go ignored and unacknowledged and then everyone would just think that Ming never tried to contact him, which would be worse for him.

Like sure point it out once, its totally legit. Like the guy who did the video on this thread, very clear (and he pointed out also upfront he's been talking with Massena etc.) But the more he does it after without wanting to send it in, then more he looks like a jerk. its not black and white here, so lets see how it develops. Also curious to see what will be the incident rate on this in the end.

I agree with what you said earlier, for sure it will be fixed for the normal 17.09s, if he doesn't fix it, his reputation is basically over...


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## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

I do wonder how many people have been influenced by horomarobro's post on social media and decide not to support the brand Ming anymore. I have pre-ordered the 17.09 and since being made aware of the issue, it has cast some doubts as to whether to request a refund. Although, I'm sure the issue will be addressed at some point.


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> He would be "trashing ming's reputation" if he was lying. He isn't. He's merely documenting facts in photos.
> 
> Lying is what MT did when he deflected the blame to the costumers and the shipping company, knowing full well that's not the cause of a movement that drags the hour hand by 15 mins every hour.


Where do you get this ridiculous and erroneous idea that you have to be lying to be purposefully trashing someone's reputation? You couldn't be more wrong.

Let's look at your statement above that attempts to trash Ming's reputation. Are you strictly speaking lying? No, what you are doing is misrepresenting and mischaracterizing things to present them in a damaging light. Your, "deflected the blame," isn't strictly a lie because it represents a judgement rather than a fact. Nevertheless, it's a judgment that doesn't seem to be supported by any actual statements Ming made. Then there's your implication that Ming is lying - "knowing full well" - when you have no knowledge of what Ming knows, but, again, a judgment.

So, are you lying, or just posting baseless judgments out of disregard for their soundness? Does it matter?


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> He would be "trashing ming's reputation" if he was lying. He isn't. He's merely documenting facts in photos.
> 
> Lying is what MT did when he deflected the blame to the costumers and the shipping company, knowing full well that's not the cause of a movement that drags the hour hand by 15 mins every hour.


disagree that MT lied, I think that's an exaggeration of his full statement.

and he is definitely dragging his name through the mud, with full intent which is kind of jerk-like. But yes MT did open himself up to this in some way since their QC didn't catch this issue. That's what the world is like though, make a mistake and sometimes jerks will be there to capitalize


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> Really?! Repeatedly criticize them for the same thing over and over while refusing to let them fix it. No, I don't think so. Only a jerk does that.


How many times did he criticize Ming? He made 2 posts, one on the issue and another after he didn't like how Ming responded (which is also his right)

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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> Again, I think your perspective couldn't be more flawed. The form is everything in criticism. This 'bro guy isn't interested in constructive criticism, he just wants to keep eyeballs on his account while he repeatedly trashes someone's reputation while not allowing them to do anything about the issue he's complaining about. That's being destructive to promote yourself.
> 
> If he wanted to do something constructive, the watch would already be on its way back and he'd be documenting the process. But, not nearly as attention grabbing as being "provocative".
> 
> These kind of "influencers" are the bane of the internet, and utterly worthless.


So you would prefer wrist shots with #stunning instead?

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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> How many times did he criticize Ming? He made 2 posts, one on the issue and another after he didn't like how Ming responded (which is also his right)


You mean his faux outrage.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> Where do you get this ridiculous and erroneous idea that you have to be lying to be purposefully trashing someone's reputation? You couldn't be more wrong.
> 
> Let's look at your statement above that attempts to trash Ming's reputation. Are you strictly speaking lying? No, what you are doing is misrepresenting and mischaracterizing things to present them in a damaging light. Your, "deflected the blame," isn't strictly a lie because it represents a judgement rather than a fact. Nevertheless, it's a judgment that doesn't seem to be supported by any actual statements Ming made. Then there's your implication that Ming is lying - "knowing full well" - when you have no knowledge of what Ming knows, but, again, a judgment.
> 
> So, are you lying, or just posting baseless judgments out of disregard for their soundness? Does it matter?


MT didn't lie, but his first reaction was to blame shipping. I am not saying that might not be the case here, but that shouldn't be the first reaction (because Ming is responsible for delivery too, at the end of the day).

Look, everybody here is invested in the brand or we wouldn't be in this thread. I have my reservations, but I want the brand to do well. For that to happen, I think criticism is important. MT might think that it is his design that gets everyone to go through a lot of BS to buy his stuff. But the customers who give him free exposure arguably did more for the brand than MT could ever hoped for. For every 10 #stunning, 1 or 2 criticisms are healthy and necessary

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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> So you would prefer wrist shots with #stunning instead?


It's good you are retired; that wouldn't exactly be criticism, would it? (I can't believe it's necessary to point out the difference.)


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> You mean his faux outrage.


Faux or not, it is well within his rights as a customer. And a successful luxury brand lives and dies by how they deal with customer outrage.

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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> It's good you are retired; that wouldn't exactly be criticism, would it? (I can't believe it's necessary to point out the difference.)


Just saying that you can't expect only positive exposure from social media. And I sincerely do hope you know who Karl Marx is

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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> MT didn't lie, but his first reaction was to blame shipping. I am not saying that might not be the case here, but that shouldn't be the first reaction (because Ming is responsible for delivery too, at the end of the day).
> 
> Look, everybody here is invested in the brand or we wouldn't be in this thread. I have my reservations, but I want the brand to do well. For that to happen, I think criticism is important. MT might think that it is his design that gets everyone to go through a lot of BS to buy his stuff. But the customers who give him free exposure arguably did more for the brand than MT could ever hoped for. For every 10 #stunning, 1 or 2 criticisms are healthy and necessary


He didn't "blame" shipping. He raised that as a possibility, which it could very well be related to, which is not to say there is no issue with the watch that needs to be fixed. But, come on, this 'bro guy isn't interested in "improving the brand" or anything like that with constructive criticism. He's only interested in promoting himself at someone else's expense.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> He didn't "blame" shipping. He raised that as a possibility, which it could very well be related to, which is not to say there is no issue with the watch that needs to be fixed. But, come on, this 'bro guy isn't interested in "improving the brand" or anything like that with constructive criticism. He's only interested in promoting himself at someone else's expense.


I won't speak for 'bro's motivations, but it is his right.

Doesn't matter how you put it, the first rule of crisis management is acknowledging that there is an issue. MT said later that he can't speak on the source of the problem without receiving the watch first, then why speculate on somebody else's fault. A simple "sorry you have this problem, we will check with our manufacturing and shipping partners to find and rectify the issue, thank you for bringing this to our attention. Please reach out to our customer service to get a shipping label", wouldn't that be a better approach? And once again, I am not criticizing Ming or their watches, but how MT handled this can not be praised

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Faux or not, it is well within his rights as a customer. And a successful luxury brand lives and dies by how they deal with customer outrage.


Oh, please. "His rights?" Sure, we all have the right to refuse to let companies help us while we complain. This 'bro guy is just another jerk on the internet.



RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Just saying that you can't expect only positive exposure from social media.


Doesn't mean we have to applaud disingenuous acts of attention whores.



RetiredKarlMarx said:


> And I sincerely do hope you know who Karl Marx is


Well, I thought I did, but since you used the present tense, perhaps not.


----------



## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I won't speak for 'bro's motivations, but it is his right.


What "right" exactly is he exercising?


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> What "right" exactly is he exercising?


Free speech, to start. And right to publicly complain as a customer. How would you feel if somebody accuse you of pretending to defend Ming here just to increase your post count? Because that's what you are criticizing Mario for.

You give Ming presumption of innocence, I think Mario deserves the same.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Free speech, to start. And right to publicly complain as a customer. How would you feel if somebody accuse you of pretending to defend Ming here just to increase your post count? Because that's what you are criticizing Mario for.
> 
> You give Ming presumption of innocence, I think Mario deserves the same.


If he sent his watch back to be fixed, he would deserve the presumption of innocence, but, since he signaled his intention to keep this alive for as long as he can milk it for attention, no, he has declared himself.

Free speech? Sure. Or is he shamelessly abusing that right to hurt someone else?

Let's all stop pretending we don't know what 'bro is up to here. Sure, he has the right to be a jerk, but no one can honestly argue he's not just using Ming to promote himself, and that that's really his only purpose for even being on IG.

As I said several posts back, if he was engaged in honest, constructive criticism, the watch would already be on its way back and he'd be documenting the progress for his followers. But, as I also said, he has zero interest in doing that, as he has made quite clear.

∎


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

AnonPi said:


> If he sent his watch back to be fixed, he would deserve the presumption of innocence, but, since he signaled his intention to keep this alive for as long as he can milk it for attention, no, he has declared himself.
> 
> Free speech? Sure. Or is he shamelessly abusing that right to hurt someone else?
> 
> ...


I can't see how he is intentially trying to promote himself. I just see it as sharing his unfortunate experience and responding to the comments.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> If he sent his watch back to be fixed, he would deserve the presumption of innocence, but, since he signaled his intention to keep this alive for as long as he can milk it for attention, no, he has declared himself.
> 
> Free speech? Sure. Or is he shamelessly abusing that right to hurt someone else?
> 
> ...


He never made another post about the issue, so how is he milking this? He keeps the watch, wears it as is, then sends it back later. Two points here though:
1) Ming is not as popular as you might think, in the grand scheme of things. So, he has enough Pateks and FPJs to "milk" if he wanted to. In the wide world of watch IG, who the hell cares about Ming?
2) You seem to forget that Mario is the wronged party here. He is entitled to be outraged and he has a right to complain in whatever form it takes. MT, on another hand, as a seller, has an OBLIGATION to make this right. So him offering a refund is not going above and beyond by any means. How would you feel if you get a faulty product and the seller screams at you (IG comment section is basically calling you out in public) to stop complaining and send it back already? Let's substitute Ming with something else, say - an iPhone. A quick google search will reveal a lot of media on issues. But you won't see Tim Cook commenting on them to stop. You also won't see people on forums defending Apple and calling people jerks for "milking" Apple's reputation. Ming is selling a luxury watch - it is expected to be perfect.


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> He never made another post about the issue, so how is he milking this? He keeps the watch, wears it as is, then sends it back later. Two points here though:
> 1) Ming is not as popular as you might think, in the grand scheme of things. So, he has enough Pateks and FPJs to "milk" if he wanted to. In the wide world of watch IG, who the hell cares about Ming?
> 2) You seem to forget that Mario is the wronged party here. He is entitled to be outraged and he has a right to complain in whatever form it takes. MT, on another hand, as a seller, has an OBLIGATION to make this right. So him offering a refund is not going above and beyond by any means. How would you feel if you get a faulty product and the seller screams at you (IG comment section is basically calling you out in public) to stop complaining and send it back already? Let's substitute Ming with something else, say - an iPhone. A quick google search will reveal a lot of media on issues. But you won't see Tim Cook commenting on them to stop. You also won't see people on forums defending Apple and calling people jerks for "milking" Apple's reputation. Ming is selling a luxury watch - it is expected to be perfect.


Sorry, I can't take seriously anything you say when you assert that Ming screamed at him. He posted a comment saying send it back to get it fixed or for a refund, your choice, then he posted a comment saying, we can't help you if you don't want to be helped. And, since you apparently don't care about Ming, why are you even posting in this thread?

Basically, your argument is that 'bro has a right to be a Karen _and_ refuse to speak to the manager.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

OMG, please stop?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> Sorry, I can't take seriously anything you say when you assert that Ming screamed at him. He posted a comment saying send it back to get it fixed or for a refund, your choice, then he posted a comment saying, we can't help you if you don't want to be helped. And, since you apparently don't care about Ming, why are you even posting in this thread?
> 
> Basically, your argument is that 'bro has a right to be a Karen _and_ refuse to speak to the manager.


Posting on Mario's comment thread is equivalent to publicly calling out your customer - which can be slightly dramatically described as screaming. See my signature - I do care about Ming.
If a Karen doesn't demand speaking to the manager - she isn't a Karen by definition. Complaining to your friends and followers does not make you a Karen. It's his personal IG account, he is not a journalist, why are you trying to dictate how he should react? MT, on another hand, is an official representative of the brand and his words and actions are to be scrutinized.


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## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Posting on Mario's comment thread is equivalent to publicly calling out your customer - which can be slightly dramatically described as screaming. See my signature - I do care about Ming.
> If a Karen doesn't demand speaking to the manager - she isn't a Karen by definition. Complaining to your friends and followers does not make you a Karen. It's his personal IG account, he is not a journalist, why are you trying to dictate how he should react? MT, on another hand, is an official representative of the brand and his words and actions are to be scrutinized.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




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## vkalia (Oct 26, 2014)

Baramats said:


> Well, next open up a Rolex and see the same, then add 00 again on the price


Except that Rolex makes their own movements and has done quite a bit of R&D when it comes to developing those movement, something one would expect a watch enthusiast to know. And those movements are reasonably well finished as well: see photo below.

So maybe let's not devolve every damn thread on WUS into the "but Rolex..." nonsense.


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## Cheymao (Jul 31, 2021)

Honestly guys, there's a possibility that Mariobro doesn't even have the watch. As far as I can tell, all he's posted so far is a cropped picture of a dial -- might explain why he's not sending the watch back ASAP like the rest of us.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Whew, this thread exploded. Didn't really read through the last few pages thoroughly, but I'm sure everyone here are watch lovers / enthusiasts, so hopefully everyone can find some common ground :]

I'm hoping we can sorta sit back a bit and wait for some new info / announcements / developments in the next few weeks? (Or is that too optimistic). They said SE have been called back from their Summer breaks for this issue? (Feel a little bad for them). But hopefully they can look into this as soon as possible for the sake of the interwebs / social media ;P

I'm personally 'heavily' invested in this, since I purchased a 17.09. So obviously I am hoping for a good resolution as soon as possible.

In the meantime, if anyone here actually has a 17.09 on hand (or any other Ming), please continue to post photos! Why haven't there been more photos? Are WUS members unlucky and didn't manage to snag up a Massena model? Misalignment aside, how does the watch FEEL on the wrist? How does the finishing on the case look? The finishing of the crystal's lume? The hands?? CMON GIVE US SOMETHING!!!


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> 2) You seem to forget that Mario is the wronged party here. He is entitled to be outraged and he has a right to complain in whatever form it takes.


"Entitled to be outraged"? Stap me. I'm not especially keen on the watch or the business model behind it, but if I bought one and it arrived defective I'd simply send it back and mind my own damn business. Another buyer may feel entitled to bray and rant and rake the seller over hot coals via the internet; however, others are equally entitled to screech at him right back. Who wins? Go for it, and find out. Like seeing two old slappers shrieking at one another outside a nightclub at 3 am, not a soul in the rest of the world cares who's right and who's wrong.

It's funny. At least I think that's why I'm crying.


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

PuYang said:


> In the meantime, if anyone here actually has a 17.09 on hand (or any other Ming), please continue to post photos! Why haven't there been more photos? Are WUS members unlucky and didn't manage to snag up a Massena model? Misalignment aside, how does the watch FEEL on the wrist? How does the finishing on the case look? The finishing of the crystal's lume? The hands?? CMON GIVE US SOMETHING!!!


THIS ! MORE PICS PLEASE !!


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## Eoghan101 (Jun 13, 2014)

Hope this shows the depth of the dial.









Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Eoghan101 said:


> Hope this shows the depth of the dial.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love the shadow that gets cast on the dial. Looks very cool!


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

At the end of the day, let's not forget that these are some damn cool watches


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Just curious since I am late to this supposed outrage at Ming, where and when exactly did Ming allegedly come across as rude or declined to accept responsibility for the defect? The statements I have seen so far do not appear to support the allegations and I would love some pics if anyone can share such instances?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Eoghan101 said:


> Hope this shows the depth of the dial.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What do you think of the lume on this watch? I suspect the hands are well lumed, but have my doubts about the floating indices, just given that they don't have much depth to work with.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Eoghan101 said:


> Hope this shows the depth of the dial.
> 
> Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk


Nice, and do you have the hour hand issue? (as some ppl on this thread seem to think its basically a flaw related to the jumping hour modification, and perhaps that all or most are affected)


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> Nice, and do you have the hour hand issue? (as some ppl on this thread seem to think its basically a flaw related to the jumping hour modification, and perhaps that all or most are affected)


Nick from Orion watches did a short story explaining a general GMT architecture and how you could end up with hour hand drift. It's worth a quick look, and informative either way:






Watch this story by Orion Watches on Instagram before it disappears.







www.instagram.com


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Nick from Orion watches did a short story explaining a general GMT architecture and how you could end up with hour hand drift. It's worth a quick look, and informative either way:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks for posting, its pretty interesting -- but he's saying basically its the hour wheel slipping against the minute wheel pinion. But I noticed that this phenomenon could happen on both GMT and non-GMT watches. The root causes he later provides also apply to non-GMTs.

I noticed he said one of the things that can cause is heavy hands, as the hands light up quite a bit, I wonder if anyone knows if the lume+ceramic they use its heavy and this is the aggravating factor? This is the first time this kind of hand has been used IIRC

Because honestly, with Schwarz-Etienne in the mix here, I have to believe their technical experts are well aware of what looks like a pretty fundamental connection inside the movement (on a well known movement) and it must be something a little more subtle that us non-watchmakers maybe wouldn't think of.


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> What do you think of the lume on this watch? I suspect the hands are well lumed, but have my doubts about the floating indices, just given that they don't have much depth to work with.


This is what I found. The hands glow brightly, the rest is much fainter. I did take a photo of my lume when charged, note though the camera in the phone made everything brighter than it is to my eye, but you can see the difference in brightness at least.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

WwD said:


> This is what I found. The hands glow brightly, the rest is much fainter. I did take a photo of my lume when charged, note though the camera in the phone made everything brighter than it is to my eye, but you can see the difference in brightness at least.
> 
> View attachment 16039716


Thanks for sharing!


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## sunderxo (Jul 16, 2015)

Here's mine! I'm not sure if others have said it but the dial is dark gray rather than black. That's not a bad thing, but it was unexpected. I'm also having the lagging hour hand problem and I just now emailed Massena Lab.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

PuYang said:


> Whew, this thread exploded. Didn't really read through the last few pages thoroughly, but I'm sure everyone here are watch lovers / enthusiasts, so hopefully everyone can find some common ground :]
> 
> I'm hoping we can sorta sit back a bit and wait for some new info / announcements / developments in the next few weeks? (Or is that too optimistic). They said SE have been called back from their Summer breaks for this issue? (Feel a little bad for them). But hopefully they can look into this as soon as possible for the sake of the interwebs / social media ;P
> 
> ...


Yes, more please! Does the 17.09 have the same case as the 17.06 (less the lug holes for straight springbars?)


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Is anyone keeping track of the number of watches affected?


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## shiker (Aug 19, 2017)

sunderxo said:


> Here's mine! I'm not sure if others have said it but the dial is dark gray rather than black. That's not a bad thing, but it was unexpected. I'm also having the lagging hour hand problem and I just now emailed Massena Lab.
> 
> View attachment 16039825


Massena Lab will advise unless you want a refund; to contact Ming directly for support on getting it fixed, I have the same issue, the hour hand is lagging.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

WwD said:


> This is what I found. The hands glow brightly, the rest is much fainter. I did take a photo of my lume when charged, note though the camera in the phone made everything brighter than it is to my eye, but you can see the difference in brightness at least.


thanks ... i hope this is also an issue that only applies to the masssena ones, since the original design is simpler and has more surface area for the lume....


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Ok, so I spent some sweet time scouting the interwebs and taking note of every single 17.09 I've seen in the wild, trying to spot hand misalignment issues. Long story short, I found 39 watches, and this is how they're distributed.

Take this with a pinch of salt, as I may have double-counted some of these (e.g. I couldn't connect a forum user to their IG account).










Now, up to you to discuss what's going on and how is Ming (or Massena, has he said a peep so far?!) addressing the issue.

For those really curious, want to verify my counting, or even for Ming themselves to get a better understanding of the situation, here is the source data.


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## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

That's far from the 5% told by MT 

Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


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## ChronoTraveler (Oct 28, 2014)

The hand alignment thing doesn't seem too complex - it happenned once with an IWC mine. I let the watch drop and the hands were slightly misaligned later. A couple days after, I took the watch to a local watchmaker, the ones from small town jewelries (i.e., don't usually work with mechanical watches), and he fixed in five minutes. Said it was nothing serious.

Now, that said, it sucks this happenned with a new watch. And, more importantly, how Ming is responding to the complaints.

Not gonna lie, I'd still love to have one Ming though. Masochistic? Slow learner?


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## Bradjhomes (Jun 18, 2011)

ChronoTraveler said:


> The hand alignment thing doesn't seem too complex - it happenned once with an IWC mine. I let the watch drop and the hands were slightly misaligned later. A couple days after, I took the watch to a local watchmaker, the ones from small town jewelries (i.e., don't usually work with mechanical watches), and he fixed in five minutes. Said it was nothing serious.
> 
> Now, that said, it sucks this happenned with a new watch. And, more importantly, how Ming is responding to the complaints.
> 
> Not gonna lie, I'd still love to have one Ming though. Masochistic? Slow learner?


Doesn't seem to be a case of the hands becoming misaligned and staying that way. The hands are becoming misaligned due to the movement modifications. Align them, then they will misalign themselves again (that's my reading of the situation though).


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## Grégoire (Apr 30, 2008)

ChronoTraveler said:


> The hand alignment thing doesn't seem too complex - it happenned once with an IWC mine. I let the watch drop and the hands were slightly misaligned later. A couple days after, I took the watch to a local watchmaker, the ones from small town jewelries (i.e., don't usually work with mechanical watches), and he fixed in five minutes. Said it was nothing serious.


This seems to be a bit of a different issue than a simple matter of the hands becoming misaligned due to a forcible shock to the case. In instances like yours, the hands can be easily realigned on the canon pinion and hour wheel by any watchmaker in a few minutes as you said.

The problem here appears to be an issue with the actual gearing with the modified GMT system and not an issue of the hands slipping out of place. As such, even if the hands on some appear to be in perfect alignment, there's a good chance they could find themselves misaligned over time due to all of them having the same modified GMT mechanism.


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## ChronoTraveler (Oct 28, 2014)

Bradjhomes said:


> Doesn't seem to be a case of the hands becoming misaligned and staying that way. The hands are becoming misaligned due to the movement modifications. Align them, then they will misalign themselves again (that's my reading of the situation though).





Grégoire said:


> This seems to be a bit of a different issue than a simple matter of the hands becoming misaligned due to a forcible shock to the case. In instances like yours, the hands can be easily realigned on the canon pinion and hour wheel by any watchmaker in a few minutes as you said.
> 
> The problem here appears to be an issue with the actual gearing with the modified GMT system and not an issue of the hands slipping out of place. As such, even if the hands on some appear to be in perfect alignment, there's a good chance they could find themselves misaligned over time due to all of them having the same modified GMT mechanism.


Oh, I didn't know that. My bad. Thanks for explaining.

This makes Ming reaction even more awful.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

guillelle said:


> Ok, so I spent some sweet time scouting the interwebs and taking note of every single 17.09 I've seen in the wild, trying to spot hand misalignment issues. Long story short, I found 39 watches, and this is how they're distributed.
> 
> Take this with a pinch of salt, as I may have double-counted some of these (e.g. I couldn't connect a forum user to their IG account).
> 
> ...


wow that's quite an effort.... how do you define a "Maybe"?

for example i looked at your first maybe on line 5 









and I see this (below), but I don't see anything saying there's actually an issue...


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

ChronoTraveler said:


> Oh, I didn't know that. My bad. Thanks for explaining.
> 
> This makes Ming reaction even more awful.


its not totally accurate information though as no one knows the cause at this point, and the one person who actually posted a detailed post with some of the causes of the hour hand slipping behind, show that this can also happen with a normal hour/minute setup. It could be the new GMT thing, it could be other things too that are more subtle (the orion watches post listed some of the causes)


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> wow that's quite an effort.... how do you define a "Maybe"?
> 
> for example i looked at your first maybe on line 5
> View attachment 16040156
> ...


Basically when something looks a bit off but I'm not sure if it's due to parallax. On that specific Instagram post, to me it looks like the hour hand should be a bit closer to the one.

Then I checked his stories and found this other shot, which also looks off to me. Hence the maybe...


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## Bradjhomes (Jun 18, 2011)

golffoxtrot said:


> wow that's quite an effort.... how do you define a "Maybe"?
> 
> for example i looked at your first maybe on line 5
> View attachment 16040156
> ...


Well, given the position of the minute hand, I would expect the hour hand to be more than 3/4 of the way towards 1 o'clock. It looks like it's only just over half way to me.
I would also judge this as a "maybe" even though the owner hasn't said anything.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

guillelle said:


> Basically when something looks a bit off but I'm not sure if it's due to parallax. On that specific Instagram post, to me it looks like the hour hand should be a bit closer to the one.
> 
> Then I checked his stories and found this other shot, which also looks off to me. Hence the maybe...


seems you've done a very thorough investigation, you should email it to them...


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## Chimpsey (Apr 17, 2021)

How you guys read about this ? I was linked to this site from instagram.









Ming watches: customer disservice redefined


After yesterday’s post… Someone reached out to me with his own experience and I will share it here today. These are simply screenshots of the various conversations, as-received.




screwdowncrown.wordpress.com





If this is true, I don't know what to say. Ming Watch really need a better PR team.

Sent from my CPH1919 using Tapatalk


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Chimpsey said:


> How you guys read about this ? I was linked to this site from instagram.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I've heard about that case before. It happened here in Singapore.

Now I wonder if Ming will cancel my order of the 17.09...


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Well I’ll say this- I genuinely hope this is fixed by the time the regular production pieces are out. I don’t think I’m alone in the fact that the 17.09 will be my first Ming after all the hype. If people’s first experiences with the watch on hand is the drifting or lagging hour hand and if it’s a higher than acknowledged failure rate that would be bad. I’m sure my order delivery date of October is going to be pushed back. If this problem exists for those who receive their watches in 2022 (the time limited batch) then they need to reevaluate their use of an add on module or “exclusive” complications for all future releases.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Chimpsey said:


> How you guys read about this ? I was linked to this site from instagram.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It seems to go beyond PR. I doubt the PR person decided on this solution. Censoring your customers is never ok, especially for a direct sale brand. I wonder how much of the universal praise of Ming on social media is because they banned everyone who posted a negative review/opinion/concern, leaving only happy fans in the customer pool.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> universal praise of Ming on social media


I'd disagree. I think social media has always been split down the middle with MING - its people that love it, and people that have been highly critical of them for their production numbers, their sales model, their choice of movements, their design etc. I've been following MING since I discovered the 18 Abyss concept, and it has not been pretty on social media.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I'd disagree. I think social media has always been split down the middle with MING - its people that love it, and people that have been highly critical of them for their production numbers, their sales model, their choice of movements, their design etc. I've been following MING since I discovered the 18 Abyss concept, and it has not been pretty on social media.


I see. Maybe the people I am following are Ming fans. That's what got me interested in Ming initially - the universal (from my perspective) praise from people with no interest in affordability.


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## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

sunderxo said:


> Here's mine! I'm not sure if others have said it but the dial is dark gray rather than black. That's not a bad thing, but it was unexpected. I'm also having the lagging hour hand problem and I just now emailed Massena Lab.
> 
> View attachment 16039825


Totally agree on the "more gray than black" comment. In outdoor sun, it even appears shiny silver rather than black or gray...

My hour hand is lagging a little as well...
Its minor but obvious every time you check at 12nn or 12mn. Could be some gear tolerance issue (I'm not an expert... On the contrary, I'm a total newbie!). The lag error doesn't compound, just exhibit the similar amount of lag each time, hence it doesn't really affect time-keeping.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I see. Maybe the people I am following are Ming fans. That's what got me interested in Ming initially - the universal (from my perspective) praise from people with no interest in affordability.


I'm not sure this counts as social media, but check out the comment section of most media articles published about the MING 17.01 (their first watch). It was vicious 😂


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## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> I'd disagree. I think social media has always been split down the middle with MING - its people that love it, and people that have been highly critical of them for their production numbers, their sales model, their choice of movements, their design etc. I've been following MING since I discovered the 18 Abyss concept, and it has not been pretty on social media.


I have personally seen a ton of praise for products Ming has offered since it all flooded social media and thats what got me interested. I wasn't so keen at first sight but the more praise they recieved on their designs, I was more drawn to the Brand.


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## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

WwD said:


> This is what I found. The hands glow brightly, the rest is much fainter. I did take a photo of my lume when charged, note though the camera in the phone made everything brighter than it is to my eye, but you can see the difference in brightness at least.
> 
> View attachment 16039716


Nicee... How did you charge your lume?!? UV light?
I spent 1, 2 hours outdoor, under the Sun, but can't even detect the faintest lume when I'm back home, in the dark... Not sure if this is normal??


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## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

Anyone tested the power reserve on ur Watch yet?
Able to achieve >40hrs??


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

nooch_blackhoneycomb said:


> Nicee... How did you charge your lume?!? UV light?
> I spent 1, 2 hours outdoor, under the Sun, but can't even detect the faintest lume when I'm back home, in the dark... Not sure if this is normal??


The non-hands to my eye are _really_ faint. Looks far better on camera. But it is subtle. The hands are very strong.

I just use a normal LED flashlight (a Maglite I have to be specific). Always has done well for me when shooting review footage and such.


----------



## WastedYears (May 21, 2015)

Chimpsey said:


> How you guys read about this ? I was linked to this site from instagram.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is honestly hilarious. It totally is petty of Ming to not let him buy more watches, but I do get where they're coming from and can't really fault them for it. I also believe that there are limitations to the credo of the customer being always right.


----------



## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Chimpsey said:


> How you guys read about this ? I was linked to this site from instagram.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Personally speaking, I have no issue with Ming's response. In fact, I think they did the right thing. I don't agree that the customer is always right. As a small company, they do have to protect their reputation. And it is only right that they share their products with those who can reasonably appreciate their efforts and what they are trying to achieve.

If I were Ming, I would be doing the same thing. After all, there are many people who want my product and supply is limited. Will I sell to someone whom I suspect to have no good intentions or do I sell to someone who will appreciate my product? We are not talking about mass production here. Imagine you wish to hire a famous chef in high demand to cook a special dinner for you at your home. You think the chef wants to come over and cook for you if he knows you have been critical of his cooking in the past? Even though you can pay for his services. I suspect he will be ignoring you or at best asking you to look for someone else.

My 2 cents. Just to clarify, I am hoping the issue will not be present or will have been resolved in the Ming 17.09 I will be receiving next year.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I'd disagree. I think social media has always been split down the middle with MING - its people that love it, and people that have been highly critical of them for their production numbers, their sales model, their choice of movements, their design etc. I've been following MING since I discovered the 18 Abyss concept, and it has not been pretty on social media.


yes i noticed this too, people that think he's awesome for breaking barriers, a potential future classic and the super haters on the other side which see negative in anything he does


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> It seems to go beyond PR. I doubt the PR person decided on this solution. Censoring your customers is never ok, especially for a direct sale brand. I wonder how much of the universal praise of Ming on social media is because they banned everyone who posted a negative review/opinion/concern, leaving only happy fans in the customer pool.


Well just like horobro has a right to voice whatever he wants, Ming also has a right to do this I'd say. If demand exceeds supply then as a business owner you want all the supply to go to people who will love the product and (by my eyes looking at those photos ) nitpick to the n-th degree. Wonder if horobro is blacklisted now too?


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

WwD said:


> The non-hands to my eye are _really_ faint. Looks far better on camera. But it is subtle. The hands are very strong.
> 
> I just use a normal LED flashlight (a Maglite I have to be specific). Always has done well for me when shooting review footage and such.


did you get a normal 17.09 as well? I'm hoping the normal one will have better marker lume (thicker plots etc.)


----------



## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

guillelle said:


> Yes, I've heard about that case before. It happened here in Singapore.
> 
> Now I wonder if Ming will cancel my order of the 17.09...


So it's indeed true Singaporeans are more demanding?!!?? LOL...

Looking at the case from another angle, perhaps the "imperfect" Lume issue will still surface for future MING watches, hence that particular Buyer may be upset again with the quality of the Lume, and request for another repair, repeating the cycle...

Thus MING might have decided not to disappoint that Buyer again by being upfront with him/her, that MING's watches cannot meet his/her expectations, hence no-sale...


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> yes i noticed this too, people that think he's awesome for breaking barriers, a potential future classic and the super haters on the other side which see negative in anything he does


I am personally not that black and white. I respect his achievements and design language. I support the founding ethos of the brand (which I think they strayed away from). However, I don't think he is a God-sent and I don't agree with his customer service approach and retail model. The same view with other brands - while I absolutely adore GS for their stunning watches (for the price), I do not like the shenanigans they are pulling with the LE's. Doesn't have to be one or another.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> Well just like horobro has a right to voice whatever he wants, Ming also has a right to do this I'd say. If demand exceeds supply then as a business owner you want all the supply to go to people who will love the product and (by my eyes looking at those photos ) nitpick to the n-th degree. Wonder if horobro is blacklisted now too?


Ming has every right to refuse service to any customer. I am saying it is wrong (not moral verdict, but business best practices assessment) from a PR and customer service perspective. Ming is not a backstreet peddler - he is trying to build an enduring mass market (vs low volume independent) brand. Being petty does not help longevity.


----------



## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Ming has every right to refuse service to any customer. I am saying it is wrong (not moral verdict, but business best practices assessment) from a PR and customer service perspective. Ming is not a backstreet peddler - he is trying to build an enduring mass market (vs low volume independent) brand. Being petty does not help longevity.


I don't see how it's wrong on any count. Why sell watches to people who are likely to just complain about them for picayune details? He simply doesn't need or want their "business", and selling to them is just bad PR waiting to happen.

Elon Musk has banned people from buying Teslas because they publicly disparaged the company. Doesn't seem to have affected his efforts to, "build an enduring mass market brand." In the future, companies will likely do this more frequently as they just don't need the headache of dealing with these people.


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

golffoxtrot said:


> Well just like horobro has a right to voice whatever he wants, Ming also has a right to do this I'd say. If demand exceeds supply then as a business owner you want all the supply to go to people who will love the product and (by my eyes looking at those photos ) nitpick to the n-th degree. Wonder if horobro is blacklisted now too?


Regardless of all the recent controversy, Ming will do just fine. 
I'm guessing he isn't blacklisted, who knows. How could Ming possibly know horobro's real identity to issue a ban?


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

WastedYears said:


> This is honestly hilarious. It totally is petty of Ming to not let him buy more watches, but I do get where they're coming from and can't really fault them for it. I also believe that there are limitations to the credo of the customer being always right.


I found it hilarious that someone went to all the trouble to vomit page after page of screenshot and complaints for everyone to see. And started a new site just for it. I assume someone unemployed/trustafarian?


----------



## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

golffoxtrot said:


> did you get a normal 17.09 as well? I'm hoping the normal one will have better marker lume (thicker plots etc.)


No this Massena cross-over is the only Ming watch I ever even tried to buy. I wasn't really aware of the brand until a few months ago. Was on the Massena mailing list to keep attuned to updates on it and lucked out getting an offer to buy one of the black models so I bought it figuring it would be something quite different than my other watches.

I'm not wearing it right now. I assume the risk of internal parts damage is low but I really don't know what causes the issue so I figured I should keep it wound down and unused. I'll enjoy it after the repair.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> I don't see how it's wrong on any count. Why sell watches to people who are likely to just complain about them for picayune details? He simply doesn't need or want their "business", and selling to them is just bad PR waiting to happen.
> 
> Elon Musk has banned people from buying Teslas because they publicly disparaged the company. Doesn't seem to have affected his efforts to, "build an enduring mass market brand." In the future, companies will likely do this more frequently as they just don't need the headache of dealing with these people.


Ming will have to try harder until he can act like Elon without brand damage. And Tesla is an outlier. Not saying Ming should sell watches to people he doesn't like. I am saying he needs to insulate himself from PR stuff - let professionals handle it. He can then focus on what he does best - designing stuff.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

I have no problem with what Ming did, because on social media, it's simply too easy to be a hater. 

The purchaser was offered remedies. He declined, then took the 'issue' public before remediation. IMO this is unethical, and immediately raises questions about the motivation for the complaint. 

Note that dealing with this complaint costs Ming time and money. 

"The customer is always right" broke down some decades ago, if it was ever really valid. It's been weaponized by a small minority, and in turn, commercialized by bloggers looking to draw traffic...and therefore cash in...by offering up clickbait about which they can't be held accountable.


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

One-Seventy said:


> I found it hilarious that someone went to all the trouble to vomit page after page of screenshot and complaints for everyone to see. And started a new site just for it. I assume someone unemployed/trustafarian?


I believe it's a blog post which started back in 2011 to share his views on watches. It's nice to hear and read other peoples views on things.


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

gangrel said:


> "The customer is always right" broke down some decades ago, if it was ever really valid. It's been weaponized by a small minority, and in turn, commercialized by bloggers looking to draw traffic...and therefore cash in...by offering up clickbait about which they can't be held accountable.


Well put.


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

TecTonic said:


> I believe it's a blog post which started back in 2011 to share his views on watches. It's nice to hear and read other peoples views on things.


My mistake. I got the impression the website was a vehicle for his 2,500 word thesis (described portentously as "lessons"). Doesn't matter; he got dumped on his arse, and now he's sore about it - but why in general would people try to buy more Mings after all that headache?

Could it have been the promise of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

One-Seventy said:


> My mistake. I got the impression the website was a vehicle for his 2,500 word thesis (described portentously as "lessons"). Doesn't matter; he got dumped on his arse, and now he's sore about it - but why in general would people try to buy more Mings after all that headache?
> 
> Could it have been the promise of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?


Based on his IG posts, he appears to be into his watches and has posted a few Ming watches so I can only assume he wanted to buy another Ming because he likes them? He has a nice collection of watches including the Ming.


----------



## gsroppsa (Jan 5, 2013)

guillelle said:


> For those really curious, want to verify my counting, or even for Ming themselves to get a better understanding of the situation, here is the source data.


Interesting data, thanks for your generous efforts here.

I think my 17.09 is ok. It's been a few days since delivery and everything appears to be behaving as normal. Mind you, in the back of my mind there's a tiny little part of me that worries about the issue popping up randomly. As a result I haven't adjusted the time after the initial setting, and most definitely haven't had a play with setting the hour hand independently. It's irrational to be sure, and I'll get over it soon - I guess I'm just wanting to prolong the honeymoon period for as long as possible at this point.










All the controversy aside, this is still such a cool looking watch. It's future minimalism aesthetics are completely different to anything else in my collection, evoking feelings of "Blade Runner" or Cixin Lin's "The Three Body Problem" at every glance. It's distinctively gorgeous, and one that will be in the rotation for a long time to come. I can only hope that anyone who has been experiencing issues gets it resolved quickly, so that they can enjoy their timepieces as much as I have been so far.


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

gsroppsa said:


> Interesting data, thanks for your generous efforts here.
> 
> I think my 17.09 is ok. It's been a few days since delivery and everything appears to be behaving as normal. Mind you, in the back of my mind there's a tiny little part of me that worries about the issue popping up randomly. As a result I haven't adjusted the time after the initial setting, and most definitely haven't had a play with setting the hour hand independently. It's irrational to be sure, and I'll get over it soon - I guess I'm just wanting to prolong the honeymoon period for as long as possible at this point.
> 
> ...


Absolutely gorgeous! I just watched John P's video on the Ming issues on YT, and he alluded to the fact that the problem might only rear its head once the watch is adjusted in the jump hour (second) position. You might want to bite the bullet and give that a try so you can get yours fixed if there is truly an issue.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Any current owners of the 17.09 care to comment on the strap? What is your wrist size, and how many holes up or down are available to you? -- I ask because I have small wrists and am worried the stock straps will be too long for me based on their published data stating "Will fit 160-210mm (6.1"-8.3") wrist circumference". (I have a 6" wrist only xD)

Any pics of the pin buckle? What does the "Signed *[flying blade]* pin buckle" look like? Rarely anyone shows clear photos of their buckles.

Thanks in advance!

---

For anyone who may have missed one of my earlier posts; I did contact Ming about shorter straps, and they replied by saying they CAN swap out the supplied strap with something shorter, but it won't be the same model strap as the original.

I'm still debating whether or not I want to ask for a shorter / different strap, or just get the intended strap to "have the full set" for the time being. I'm 99% sure I'll be shopping for aftermarket straps anyway.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Any current owners of the 17.09 care to comment on the strap? What is your wrist size, and how many holes up or down are available to you? -- I ask because I have small wrists and am worried the stock straps will be too long for me based on their published data stating "Will fit 160-210mm (6.1"-8.3") wrist circumference". (I have a 6" wrist only xD)
> 
> Any pics of the pin buckle? What does the "Signed *[flying blade]* pin buckle" look like? Rarely anyone shows clear photos of their buckles.
> 
> ...


When I emailed them in April asking for the "exact same strap, but shorter", they said it will be accommodated. I am in the same boat - 6" wrist, planning to go aftermarket but still want the "intended look".

Edit: Oh and they gave me the measurements: "Our short straps are 65/115mm in length vs 70/120 for our standard length straps. "


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> When I emailed them in April asking for the "exact same strap, but shorter", they said it will be accommodated. I am in the same boat - 6" wrist, planning to go aftermarket but still want the "intended look".
> 
> Edit: Oh and they gave me the measurements: "Our short straps are 65/115mm in length vs 70/120 for our standard length straps. "


Ohhh that is awesome news! Wonder why I got a different response xD


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

PuYang said:


> Any current owners of the 17.09 care to comment on the strap? What is your wrist size, and how many holes up or down are available to you? -- I ask because I have small wrists and am worried the stock straps will be too long for me based on their published data stating "Will fit 160-210mm (6.1"-8.3") wrist circumference". (I have a 6" wrist only xD)
> 
> Any pics of the pin buckle? What does the "Signed *[flying blade]* pin buckle" look like? Rarely anyone shows clear photos of their buckles.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I am on the third-smallest hole, 6.75-inch wrist. Photo of it on wrist with buckle in view.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Based on what I've read I'm in the camp that this is likely a pervasive defect due to ineffective movement tinkering, rather than just happening on a few watches.

I am curious though because there were a couple of the prototypes of the 17.09 out there that went out for review and on the wrists of the folks over at Ming. Wouldn't they have discovered this problem then?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> Wouldn't they have discovered this problem then?


If you've read this one (and most other MING reviews), you'll quickly realize that they rarely convey anything that a spec sheet and some hi-res photographs cannot:









Hands-On With The MING 17.09 In Blue


We’re back again with the MING 17.09, but this time it’s a hands-on look with a highly anticipated watch. Let’s jump into it… These days, it’s tough to




www.fratellowatches.com





This one has me particularly frustrated since I have a blue 17.09 on order, and I learned absolutely nothing reading that article. I wouldn't be surprised if the author didn't spend more than a few minutes with that watch.


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## arpanlaha (May 27, 2021)

PuYang said:


> Ohhh that is awesome news! Wonder why I got a different response xD


I can confirm they also told me it would be the same but smaller for what it's worth.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Ming will have to try harder until he can act like Elon without brand damage. And Tesla is an outlier. Not saying Ming should sell watches to people he doesn't like. I am saying he needs to insulate himself from PR stuff - let professionals handle it. He can then focus on what he does best - designing stuff.


I'm not feeling like he damaged his brand though,. except to some ultra picky people.

Its like when Steve jobs was criticizing users of the iphone 4 (and he didn't offer a refund). Some ppl thought he was an ass, but ultimately doesn't really impact the sales.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

gangrel said:


> I have no problem with what Ming did, because on social media, it's simply too easy to be a hater.
> 
> The purchaser was offered remedies. He declined, then took the 'issue' public before remediation. IMO this is unethical, and immediately raises questions about the motivation for the complaint.
> 
> ...


I would say that its valid as long as the customer is being constructive and working toward resolution. Then he/she is always right (and for example should be offered an unconditional refund. But as soon as they're more interested in slagging you then you need to defend yourself or others run away with the narrative on social media these days.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

TecTonic said:


> Regardless of all the recent controversy, Ming will do just fine.
> I'm guessing he isn't blacklisted, who knows. How could Ming possibly know horobro's real identity to issue a ban?


yeah thats true hahha


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

arpanlaha said:


> I can confirm they also told me it would be the same but smaller for what it's worth.


They might have ran out of smaller straps in that style


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> yeah thats true hahha


MIght be a reason why Mario is not sending it back immediately, to not give away his identity?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Or maybe he's just going to flip it for $9k and call it a day.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Or maybe he's just going to flip it for $9k and call it a day.


Maybe, but judging by his collection he doesn't have to.


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## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> Or maybe he's just going to flip it for $9k and call it a day.


Even if it was the case, it's not the first. There has been a few sold already at prices way above retail and more out there for sale. Those that are willing to pay such prices are the ones that hold Ming to such a high degree, thats fine. It just means others can experience and appreciate the watch.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Maybe, but judging by his collection he doesn't have to.


Yup, but since we're speculating anyway 🤷‍♂️



TecTonic said:


> Even if it was the case, it's not the first. There has been a few sold already at prices way above retail and more out there for sale. Those that are willing to pay such prices are the ones that hold Ming to such a high degree, thats fine. It just means others can experience and appreciate the watch.


No arguments there. I've paid over retail for MING watches in the past, and I don't regret it. I like what I like, and I can't always afford to buy them when they first become available.


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

.


singularityseven said:


> Or maybe he's just going to flip it for $9k and call it a day.


God, at 9k flipping it is a very good option if I ask my wife. But, I will wait for a serviced watch and see how it feels after.


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> you'll quickly realize that they rarely convey anything that a spec sheet and some hi-res photographs cannot:


so true. so frustrating


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

TecTonic said:


> Based on his IG posts, he appears to be into his watches and has posted a few Ming watches so I can only assume he wanted to buy another Ming because he likes them? He has a nice collection of watches including the Ming.


After the way he has been treated by the brand, he's willing to potentially put himself through all that again and buy another one? Spouting all that invective and still he lines up for more? Surely "liking a Ming" has, at some level, the assurance that the brand itself is likeable, that one is able to like it. Otherwise it sounds a bit like Stockholm Syndrome, or addiction. "I've been poorly treated, and I'm outraged (you may be wondering why I am so outraged, so lemme tell ya), but I like it so much, I want more. I _need more_."

Or, it's a lost opportunity to make more $k, lost. Hence more anger. After all, we're _entitled _to make money, right


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

One-Seventy said:


> After the way he has been treated by the brand, he's willing to potentially put himself through all that again and buy another one? Spouting all that invective and still he lines up for more? Surely "liking a Ming" has, at some level, the assurance that the brand itself is likeable, that one is able to like it. Otherwise it sounds a bit like Stockholm Syndrome, or addiction. "I've been poorly treated, and I'm outraged (you may be wondering why I am so outraged, so lemme tell ya), but I like it so much, I want more. I _need more_."
> 
> Or, it's a lost opportunity to make more $k, lost. Hence more anger. After all, we're _entitled _to make money, right


Sure, we can only speculate his motive for wanting another Ming.


----------



## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

TecTonic said:


> Sure, we can only speculate his motive for wanting another Ming.


Or, maybe he doesn't, but is just angry that he's been banned for life.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Or he just wants to enjoy the watch spotlight for two more months, dissecting it to find more issues with it, for a few more days of being the most talked about person on Instagram. The possibilities are endless.

But I'm more interested to hear from folks in this thread who've had the issue, and I'd like to know more about how MING is handling the situation. I think what matters now is the fraction of affected watches among the 250, are addressed and rectified. And for selfish reasons, I hope it is done soon so that the standard production 17.09s can start rolling out right after.


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Or he just wants to enjoy the watch spotlight for two more months, dissecting it to find more issues with it, for a few more days of being the most talked about person on Instagram. The possibilities are endless.
> 
> But I'm more interested to hear from folks in this thread who've had the issue, and I'd like to know more about how MING is handling the situation. I think what matters now is the fraction of affected watches among the 250, are addressed and rectified. And for selfish reasons, I hope it is done soon so that the standard production 17.09s can start rolling out right after.


All I can say so far is that I have talked to William Massena on the phone and the watch will be taken care of. They were very accommodating and I have no reason to think they are not taking this issue very serious.
I guess the boring truth is that everyone has to wait until this is done.


----------



## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

Baramats said:


> All I can say so far is that I have talked to William Massena on the phone and the watch will be taken care of. They were very accommodating and I have no reason to think they are not taking this issue very serious.
> I guess the boring truth is that everyone has to wait until this is done.


I was referred by Massena to Ming (nobody from Massena called me)... My main concern was the turn-around time for the Watch to be fixed... I did enquire if they'll figure out the root cause + solution first, before getting affected Customers to start shipping our Watches back... Cos I see no point getting all watches back at the same time, while they still need more time to tear-down n investigate... Reply was along the line of they needed as many Watches back as possible, to help in their investigation...


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> MIght be a reason why Mario is not sending it back immediately, to not give away his identity?


Well then hope he bought the watch under a pseudonym...like "Luigi" lol


----------



## mconlonx (Sep 21, 2018)

I love Ming design and was originally interested in picking up a copper 17.06. Even now, I'll sporadically check for used examples, and consider wildly inflated prices.

Found one recently. Beautiful watch, still. Deserving of all the accolades. But having really looked at details of a new release, I was looking for one thing in particular: a cover for the seconds pinion. Which wasn't there. 

I mod watches, and in the beginning, as having a real hard time with installation of sconds hands. For one project, I just said "F' it, it's a 2-hander," posted it on WUS... and got called out because i hadn't really finished it off - there was the seconds pinion in the middle of the handset, just hanging out in the breeze. 

Eventually, I found a top-hat cover for it, did the install, and love the mod. 

But looking at the 17.06? I just can't bring myself to spend the king of money being asked for them, with that kind of detail issue.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

mconlonx said:


> I love Ming design and was originally interested in picking up a copper 17.06. Even now, I'll sporadically check for used examples, and consider wildly inflated prices.
> 
> Found one recently. Beautiful watch, still. Deserving of all the accolades. But having really looked at details of a new release, I was looking for one thing in particular: a cover for the seconds pinion. Which wasn't there.
> 
> ...


For 17.09 I believe they said after the sale week that production ones would have the cover so probably will have from now on


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

mconlonx said:


> I love Ming design and was originally interested in picking up a copper 17.06. Even now, I'll sporadically check for used examples, and consider wildly inflated prices.
> 
> Found one recently. Beautiful watch, still. Deserving of all the accolades. But having really looked at details of a new release, I was looking for one thing in particular: a cover for the seconds pinion. Which wasn't there.
> 
> ...


Yes, as @golffoxtrot mentioned, the 17.09s will have capped pinions, similar to what's on the Massena x Ming:

Photograph is from the Fratello review of the blue 17.09.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

My 27.01 has moved from rubber to bracelet, and I love it:


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> But I'm more interested to hear from folks in this thread who've had the issue, and I'd like to know more about how MING is handling the situation. I think what matters now is the fraction of affected watches among the 250, are addressed and rectified. And for selfish reasons, I hope it is done soon so that the standard production 17.09s can start rolling out right after.


This morning I received my return label and instructions from MING on how to return my Massena LAB 17.09 to them for repair. I have done this and just got back from FedEx.

MING indicates I will be emailed when their facility receives the watch (my tracking details suggest it will arrive on Tuesday). As to when I can expect the watch back, MING has indicated they'll provide more details later on the turnaround but they need to inspect the incoming watches, identify the issue, and implement a permanent fix.

I have provided MING the tracking number and also re-sent links to the footage of my watch having the hour hand fall behind in general time-setting and also the time-lapse footage of it starting/stopping over a one-hour period (in case the watchmakers would find those helpful).

That's all there is to report. MING and Massena LAB have always been polite with me and communicative on this matter.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

WwD said:


> This morning I received my return label and instructions from MING on how to return my Massena LAB 17.09 to them for repair. I have done this and just got back from FedEx.
> 
> MING indicates I will be emailed when their facility receives the watch (my tracking details suggest it will arrive on Tuesday). As to when I can expect the watch back, MING has indicated they'll provide more details later on the turnaround but they need to inspect the incoming watches, identify the issue, and implement a permanent fix.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing. I think it would be great if you could keep this thread updated with the developments, since a lot of us have vested interest in the 17.09 😂


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Yes, as @golffoxtrot mentioned, the 17.09s will have capped pinions, similar to what's on the Massena x Ming:
> 
> Photograph is from the Fratello review of the blue 17.09.


Would love a confirmation that the lume on markers is not weak like the massena one. Looking at the plots they seem comparable in size to the hands


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> My 27.01 has moved from rubber to bracelet, and I love it:
> 
> View attachment 16044287


The bracelet is great on slimmer pieces, such as your 27.01 and my 17.06. I didn't like the fit much with the 18.01, which felt a little too top heavy with the thickness


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

monsters said:


> The bracelet is great on slimmer pieces, such as your 27.01 and my 17.06. I didn't like the fit much with the 18.01, which felt a little too heavy with the thickness


I agree. I did not like it on the 18.01 at all. I didn't mind the weight, but it felt mismatched to me both from a design perspective and functionally - I need adjust-ability in a sports watch. Which is when I started to appreciate their rubber straps.


----------



## Mtnmansa (Jun 29, 2017)

PuYang said:


> Whew, this thread exploded. Didn't really read through the last few pages thoroughly, but I'm sure everyone here are watch lovers / enthusiasts, so hopefully everyone can find some common ground :]
> 
> I'm hoping we can sorta sit back a bit and wait for some new info / announcements / developments in the next few weeks? (Or is that too optimistic). They said SE have been called back from their Summer breaks for this issue? (Feel a little bad for them). But hopefully they can look into this as soon as possible for the sake of the interwebs / social media ;P
> 
> ...











just a bad photo of a cool watch.


----------



## LodeRunner (Feb 17, 2013)

golffoxtrot said:


> I'm not feeling like he damaged his brand though,. except to some ultra picky people.
> 
> Its like when Steve jobs was criticizing users of the iphone 4 (and he didn't offer a refund). Some ppl thought he was an ass, but ultimately doesn't really impact the sales.


I don't think the situation is analogous, the iPhone 4 was a mass marketed and disposable product and only a tiny fraction of Apple customers actually knew about Jobs' short-lived rampage against users. Ming is targeted to a very tight-knit group of passionate and sophisticated collectors. I'd suspect the vast majority of its customer base knows all about the hand misalignment issue and Ming's various missteps (if for no other reason because of the endless parade of hilarious IG memes it continues to spawn). But Ming's missteps are getting way more attention and outrage than they deserve, as the watch collecting community seems to now have an insatiable appetite for controversies/scandals. It will hopefully fade away as Ming addresses the problem and tries to turn things around.

The hand alignment problem was sadly a case of "no good deed goes unpunished," because if they'd just slapped in a regular Sellita SW300 movement like any other microbrand would have, they wouldn't have had those problems. But they tried to do something cool by modding the GMT-based Sellita to use the GMT hand as the hour hand, to provide a quickset hour feature. The easiest fix might just be swapping in the regular SW300, making it less cool but perhaps better for long-term reliability and serviceability.


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

LodeRunner said:


> I don't think the situation is analogous, the iPhone 4 was a mass marketed and disposable product and only a tiny fraction of Apple customers actually knew about Jobs' short-lived rampage against users. Ming is targeted to a very tight-knit group of passionate and sophisticated collectors. I'd suspect the vast majority of its customer base knows all about the hand misalignment issue and Ming's various missteps (if for no other reason because of the endless parade of hilarious IG memes it continues to spawn). But Ming's missteps are getting way more attention and outrage than they deserve, as the watch collecting community seems to now have an insatiable appetite for controversies/scandals. It will hopefully fade away as Ming addresses the problem and tries to turn things around.
> 
> The hand alignment problem was sadly a case of "no good deed goes unpunished," because if they'd just slapped in a regular Sellita SW300 movement like any other microbrand would have, they wouldn't have had those problems. But they tried to do something cool by modding the GMT-based Sellita to use the GMT hand as the hour hand, to provide a quickset hour feature. The easiest fix might just be swapping in the regular SW300, making it less cool but perhaps better for long-term reliability and serviceability.


I guess we could speculate. Perhaps they obtained a large quantity of the GMT-based Sellita movements at a good price and decided to further cut costs by just using the GMT hand as the hour marker instead of utilising R&D resources to ensure it's completely viable.

I feel like one of their selling points was having the independent hour hand adjustment mechanism - ''exclusive to Ming'' according to their website for the 17.09 pieces. If Ming did swap to an SW300 for the 17.09 blue/burgundy model, do you think there would be a price differentiation?


----------



## 92gli (Nov 18, 2011)

😁 Seriously though, I knew nothing about this brand phenomenon until a few days ago, and I'm not that much a fan of their releases so far, but the diver that's coming is exceptionally cool.


----------



## 92gli (Nov 18, 2011)

TecTonic said:


> I guess we could speculate. Perhaps they obtained a large quantity of the GMT-based Sellita movements at a good price and decided to further cut costs by just using the GMT hand as the hour marker
> 
> I feel like one of their selling points was having the independent hour hand adjustment mechanism


Having an independent hour hand that only travels east is so inconceivable that your movement bargain theory seems very conceivable.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

92gli said:


> but the diver that's coming is exceptionally cool


What diver?


----------



## 92gli (Nov 18, 2011)

singularityseven said:


> What diver?


18.01 H41... Which has already come and gone, not coming soon...? See, I said I'm new to this


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Your argument logically falls apart from the beginning though. Jobs rampage was front page need in mass media, so I don't think you can argue only a tiny fraction knew.

Yeah agree on your worst case but it's premature for that. Until they analyze, ike someone's post pointed out perhaps it's much simpler like the coupling between the hour hand and minute hand just needs to be reinforced with a stronger spring (and the problem can occur on normal and GMT movements)



LodeRunner said:


> I don't think the situation is analogous, the iPhone 4 was a mass marketed and disposable product and only a tiny fraction of Apple customers actually knew about Jobs' short-lived rampage against users. Ming is targeted to a very tight-knit group of passionate and sophisticated collectors. I'd suspect the vast majority of its customer base knows all about the hand misalignment issue and Ming's various missteps (if for no other reason because of the endless parade of hilarious IG memes it continues to spawn). But Ming's missteps are getting way more attention and outrage than they deserve, as the watch collecting community seems to now have an insatiable appetite for controversies/scandals. It will hopefully fade away as Ming addresses the problem and tries to turn things around.
> 
> The hand alignment problem was sadly a case of "no good deed goes unpunished," because if they'd just slapped in a regular Sellita SW300 movement like any other microbrand would have, they wouldn't have had those problems. But they tried to do something cool by modding the GMT-based Sellita to use the GMT hand as the hour hand, to provide a quickset hour feature. The easiest fix might just be swapping in the regular SW300, making it less cool but perhaps better for long-term reliability and serviceability.


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

LodeRunner said:


> Ming is targeted to a very tight-knit group of passionate and sophisticated collectors





> (if for no other reason because of the endless parade of hilarious IG memes it continues to spawn).


Passionate and sophisticated, or immature child-men?


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> My 27.01 has moved from rubber to bracelet, and I love it:
> 
> View attachment 16044287


I hadn't checked this thread in a while but saw your photos on insta and that's a fantastic look. Really suits the overall greyscale palette of the watch.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

One-Seventy said:


> Passionate and sophisticated, or immature child-men?


What did MING do to you to make you so venomous? ?

I love my MING watches, and I enjoy their design language. Perhaps I'm an immature man child, but I'm a very happy one.



jmariorebelo said:


> I hadn't checked this thread in a while but saw your photos on insta and that's a fantastic look. Really suits the overall greyscale palette of the watch.


Thanks man, I love it. That's exactly what I thought too - the extra steel really brings out the dial.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Thanks man, I love it. That's exactly what I thought too - the extra steel really brings out the dial.
> 
> View attachment 16046309


For some reason it reminds me of Terminator and a bit of Robocop too.

Also, great cat ?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> For some reason it reminds me of Terminator and a bit of Robocop too.
> 
> Also, great cat ?


Haha, I see both of those in there.

Thanks, she's a chunky one ?


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> What did MING do to you to make you so venomous? 😂


Nothing ; its the untrammelled bollocks from so-called sophisticated collectors (_ha!_) that has me scratching my head that so many teenagers have so much money.

Quick, to social media, peepal!


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

One-Seventy said:


> Nothing ; its the untrammelled bollocks from so-called sophisticated collectors (_ha!_) that has me scratching my head that so many teenagers have so much money.
> 
> Quick, to social media, peepal!


So you're either jealous or you're just hating because other people seem to like them. That's sad man.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> So you're either jealous or you're just hating because other people seem to like them. That's sad man.


You didn't read what I said. I took the mick out of the claim that collectors were "sophisticated" when they were flooding social media with outrage and memes, like a high school social page. Patheddic.


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

One-Seventy said:


> You didn't read what I said. I took the mick out of the claim that collectors were "sophisticated" when they were flooding social media with outrage and memes, like a high school social page. Patheddic.


Ah I completely missed that!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

singularityseven said:


> What did MING do to you to make you so venomous? ?
> 
> I love my MING watches, and I enjoy their design language. Perhaps I'm an immature man child, but I'm a very happy one.
> 
> Thanks man, I love it. That's exactly what I thought too - the extra steel really brings out the dial.












Switched my 27.02 to suede but now that the bracelet is available again, I may have to jump on that!


----------



## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

Icelatte said:


> Switched my 27.02 to suede


Looks great!


----------



## WatchEnthusiast_JT (Jul 23, 2021)

wow looks so futuristic


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

Thanks man, I love it. That's exactly what I thought too - the extra steel really brings out the dial.

View attachment 16046309

[/QUOTE]

Is this Ming universal bracelet ? looks really good and kind of changed it's character, looks more sporty then dressy now


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yadel said:


> Thanks man, I love it. That's exactly what I thought too - the extra steel really brings out the dial.
> 
> View attachment 16046309


Is this Ming universal bracelet ? looks really good and kind of changed it's character, looks more sporty then dressy now
[/QUOTE]

Yup! That's the Universal Bracelet, and I really think it looks great on this watch and the 27.02.


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

So is the quality of that bracelet warrants the $ in your opinion. I was looking for options for my 27.01


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

yadel said:


> So is the quality of that bracelet warrants the $ in your opinion. I was looking for options for my 27.01


I have it and I love it. It's so smooth, flexible and solid. Feels like a lighter (and better looking) version of the jubilee


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yadel said:


> So is the quality of that bracelet warrants the $ in your opinion. I was looking for options for my 27.01


I think so. I didn't like it for the 18.01, but for the 27.01 and the 17 series, I think its fantastic.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> What did MING do to you to make you so venomous? ?
> 
> I love my MING watches, and I enjoy their design language. Perhaps I'm an immature man child, but I'm a very happy one.
> 
> Thanks man, I love it. That's exactly what I thought too - the extra steel really brings out the dial.


Can u post a few more angles? I'm not sure how I feel about the contrast between the polished case and what looks like a brushed bracelet


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> Can u post a few more angles? I'm not sure how I feel about the contrast between the polished case and what looks like a brushed bracelet


Sure, I'll take some more detailed shots later today!


----------



## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Thanks man, I love it. That's exactly what I thought too - the extra steel really brings out the dial.
> 
> View attachment 16046309


Love the look of the bracelet! Will consider getting it if it is available for one of my two 17.09s when they arrive next year.


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

16 grand! _Yeeeahhh!! _






Watch Brands From Around the World on Chrono24


Discover the world's top watch brands on Chrono24 now | The world's leading marketplace for luxury watches | Great prices ✓ Unbeatable selection ✓ Over 400 watch brands ✓




www.chrono24.com


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> 16 grand! _Yeeeahhh!! _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

One-Seventy said:


> 16 grand! _Yeeeahhh!! _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely absurd


----------



## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

TecTonic said:


> Absolutely absurd


It won't sell for that&#8230;. Right?!


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I think that's reasonable. They could've asked for $20k, but they didn't.


----------



## LodeRunner (Feb 17, 2013)

TecTonic said:


> Absolutely absurd


Chrono24 pricing has pretty much become a meme these days. But getting good Ming hand alignment, without getting blacklisted or waiting several months for a purported fix, perhaps commands some premium these days.


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

dgoldwatch said:


> It won't sell for that&#8230;. Right?!


I mean, it's not to say it won't but it's unlikely. If somebody is willing to pay that much for it, thats fine.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

dgoldwatch said:


> It won't sell for that&#8230;. Right?!


Unlikely but there are some crazy people out there so who knows. A Ming model sold at an auction house auction recently for $15k + fees so crazier things have happened. https://www.phillips.com/detail/ming/CH080121/90


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

christianj said:


> Unlikely but there are some crazy people out there so who knows. A Ming model sold at an auction house auction recently for $15k + fees so crazier things have happened. https://www.phillips.com/detail/ming/CH080121/90


What the actual fck is that... Insanity, no other word for it.

With fees that's what, over 15k?


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

jmariorebelo said:


> Insanity, no other word for it.


The prices realized for some of the watches sold during that auction had some people freaking out.&#8230;especially for Patek, Rolex ame FPJ.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> What the actual fck is that... Insanity, no other word for it.
> 
> With fees that's what, over 15k?


Auctions don't make sense anymore, so I'm not surprised.

What hurt me most was the fact that someone at Phillips forced straight spring bars into curved spring bar holes


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

I want










+ 3% pp commission, "great value"


----------



## SunnyBoy (Aug 2, 2021)

I agree. To me it came across as a spoilt rich guy on instagram throwing his toys out of the pram because his new toy has some problems. Any normal grown up would get in touch with the manufacturer and explain their issue and get the issue resolved. I think the guy was looking for a bit of publicity to boost his profile and stir the pot. Ming shouldn't have responded, but it came across a guy that knows standards have slipped and wants to resolve it in the least painful and high-profile way - but on instagram you just come across as defensive, arrogant and anti-customer. 

The problem with instagram is there are too many self-important douches on there and you generally fall to their level if you try and engage in a discussion. If this guy, horomariobro, is so upset by Ming's response and the overall quality of the item why doesn't he just return it. I think a lot of these IG watch bros want the kudos of watch brands getting on their hands and knees for them because they spend $$$. I read this guy said he was "adding to the data" points of known faults and his intention is to raise the bar for quality control in the industry. What garbage!!

Anyway, I'm sure Ming will rectify the issue because they have to get these things right. And, in a few days we will all forget about horomariobro's first world problems!


----------



## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

Horomariobro flipped his 17.09 anyways after blasting Ming, so he lost all credibility in complaining in my book. I do wish Ming responded better to the 17.09 issues, but at least they're doing the right thing now.

On the lume-hands issue, the guy with the issue never posted a picture of the watch in daylight/normal conditions -- because it looked 100% perfect during the day. The lume "flaw" was only visible at night when the lume was charged up. I'm fully on Ming's "side" in this debate -- he emailed Ming saying there's an issue with the lume, only visible at night when the lume is fully charged, and sent a pic. Ming responded saying that that's in spec (esp since it isnt a visible defect in 99% of situations anyway). The dude pressed and said he wanted it fixed, Ming said if you aren't happy we're happy to pay for return postage to inspect it, but warned that if it was still deemed in-spec they would process it as a refund. Customer agreed to that, and then got pissy when Ming did what he/they said they would do.

_shrug_


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

SunnyBoy said:


> The problem with instagram is there are too many self-important douches on there and you generally fall to their level if you try and engage in a discussion. If this guy, horomariobro, is so upset by Ming's response and the overall quality of the item why doesn't he just return it.


Because apparently you can sell a broken Ming x Massena 17.09 for $13k - 17.09 MING X MASSENA LAB Honey

Why would you bother letting the brand fix the issue or give you a refund of your $2.5k(ish) when you can try to get $13k for it instead? And if you've milked the situation for all the likes and social validation, you come out on top for sure.

I'm not against making a buck on a watch, and I've bought 3 MINGs on the secondary market, but this is just distasteful, all things considered.



whats_shakin said:


> Horomariobro flipped his 17.09 anyways after blasting Ming, so he lost all credibility in complaining in my book. I do wish Ming responded better to the 17.09 issues, but at least they're doing the right thing now.
> 
> On the lume-hands issue, the guy with the issue never posted a picture of the watch in daylight/normal conditions -- because it looked 100% perfect during the day. The lume "flaw" was only visible at night when the lume was charged up. I'm fully on Ming's "side" in this debate -- he emailed Ming saying there's an issue with the lume, only visible at night when the lume is fully charged, and sent a pic. Ming responded saying that that's in spec (esp since it isnt a visible defect in 99% of situations anyway). The dude pressed and said he wanted it fixed, Ming said if you aren't happy we're happy to pay for return postage to inspect it, but warned that if it was still deemed in-spec they would process it as a refund. Customer agreed to that, and then got pissy when Ming did what he/they said they would do.
> 
> _shrug_


Yeah, people love to paint that customer as an innocent victim of horrible customer service. But if you read the screenshots, MING (Sarah) clearly stated this:

"If we think the hands are within spec for this watch, we will issue a full refund via the original payment and keep you informed of the same."

But then he acts shocked after they do exactly what they told him they would do? Meh, I won't be shedding a tear for this person. And I'm glad MING refused to sell him another watch (also within their terms), because that gave someone (hopefully more reasonable) else the opportunity to get one.

But not to worry, the same blog has a new piece on Ming x Massena here because why let a good crisis go to waste - The Unofficial MING Watch Thread


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

whats_shakin said:


> Horomariobro flipped his 17.09 anyways after blasting Ming, so he lost all credibility in complaining in my book. I do wish Ming responded better to the 17.09 issues, but at least they're doing the right thing now.
> 
> On the lume-hands issue, the guy with the issue never posted a picture of the watch in daylight/normal conditions -- because it looked 100% perfect during the day. The lume "flaw" was only visible at night when the lume was charged up. I'm fully on Ming's "side" in this debate -- he emailed Ming saying there's an issue with the lume, only visible at night when the lume is fully charged, and sent a pic. Ming responded saying that that's in spec (esp since it isnt a visible defect in 99% of situations anyway). The dude pressed and said he wanted it fixed, Ming said if you aren't happy we're happy to pay for return postage to inspect it, but warned that if it was still deemed in-spec they would process it as a refund. Customer agreed to that, and then got pissy when Ming did what he/they said they would do.
> 
> _shrug_


Did he post this on his stories that he was selling? I must have missed this.


----------



## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

It wasn't public knowledge, but it is now


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

whats_shakin said:


> It wasn't public knowledge, but it is now


If it is true then I guess it's moved on to somebody else to enjoy. If its not in a broken state that is...


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

TecTonic said:


> If it is true then I guess it's moved on to somebody else to enjoy. If its not in a broken state that is...


The listing at Belmont states that the hand is misaligned ?


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> The listing at Belmont states that the hand is misaligned 😂
> 
> View attachment 16050817


Why don't they just have it fixed by Ming before listing it for sale? I don't get it. I can't think of anybody who would be willing to pay a large sum for an ''unworn'' but broken watch.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

TecTonic said:


> Why don't they just have it fixed by Ming before listing it for sale? I don't get it. I can't think of anybody who would be willing to pay a large sum for an ''unworn'' but broken watch.


Maybe the guy that bought this banana for $120k?









Banana duct-taped to a wall sells for $120K at Art Basel Miami


Something’s rotten in the art world — and it’s probably this overpriced old fruit. A banana duct-taped to a wall has been sold for a hard-to-stomach $120,000 at Art Basel Miami — while children are…




nypost.com


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Maybe the guy that bought this banana for $120k?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or the tens (hundreds?) of people who think the 5711 is worth over 100k. At least the banana was just the one crazy person, now we're witnessing an epidemic.


----------



## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

whats_shakin said:


> It wasn't public knowledge, but it is now


How did you find out about this?


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> Maybe the guy that bought this banana for $120k?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah yes. I keep having to remind myself there are people out there willing to spend significant amounts on items that I just can't understand the reason behind it. Am I crazy to borrow and spend over 50k on my tuition fees?!


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

TecTonic said:


> Am I crazy to borrow and spend over 50k on my tuition fees?!


Yes. You could've gotten 41.66% of that banana instead.


----------



## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

TecTonic said:


> Ah yes. I keep having to remind myself there are people out there willing to spend significant amounts on items that I just can't understand the reason behind it. Am I crazy to borrow and spend over 50k on my tuition fees?!


I'm saying this with a bit of tongue-in-cheek, but school debt for a useless degree is a meme at this point. (not saying YOUR degree / major is useless, as I don't know what you're studying).

Tons of people are going into 5 to 6 figures of debt when they graduate only to not be able to find a job in their field. Whereas someone who takes a year or 2 in some sort of technical job like plumbing do not go into debt and come out making 6 figures annually.

Kinda a reversal of what is so engrained in our society. Go to this fancy Uni with some fancy degree to be successful. Or low class jobs like plumbing is bad. Etc etc.

But what do I know, I got a Bachelors Degree in Media Arts. That's right, an ART DEGREE.


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

PuYang said:


> I'm saying this with a bit of tongue-in-cheek, but school debt for a useless degree is a meme at this point. (not saying YOUR degree / major is useless, as I don't know what you're studying).
> 
> Tons of people are going into 5 to 6 figures of debt when they graduate only to not be able to find a job in their field. Whereas someone who takes a year or 2 in some sort of technical job like plumbing do not go into debt and come out making 6 figures annually.
> 
> ...


There are sources out there; academic journal papers, government/independent research etc, that have published their findings on graduate earnings and university degree choice. You are not wrong.

Going to university is a big investment choice simply because of the opportinity cost of not going, as you stated working as a plumber that could earn a high figure salary. I guess people have different motivations and accomplishments in life to find success in different ways. 
Personally, I would be slightly worried if I graduate and do not find myself a job lol. I won't have any disposible income to buy watches.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

TecTonic said:


> There are sources out there; academic journal papers, government/independent research etc, that have published their findings on graduate earnings and university degree choice. You are not wrong.
> 
> Going to university is a big investment choice simply because of the opportinity cost of not going, as you stated working as a plumber that could earn a high figure salary. I guess people have different motivations and accomplishments in life to find success in different ways.
> Personally, I would be slightly worried if I graduate and do not find myself a job lol. I won't have any disposible income to buy watches.


The thing I don't understand about this situation though is why don't people assess the career outcome before they plop down the cash? Its certainly possible to know before you start that with an generic arts degree the number of opening to you will be more limited career wise, like it shouldn't really be a surprise after graduation.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

whats_shakin said:


> It wasn't public knowledge, but it is now


Can you elaborate a bit on how you found out?

If true, definitely more proof his real motivation.

(not that he isn't entitled to sell though)


----------



## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

golffoxtrot said:


> The thing I don't understand about this situation though is why don't people assess the career outcome before they plop down the cash? Its certainly possible to know before you start that with an generic arts degree the number of opening to you will be more limited career wise, like it shouldn't really be a surprise after graduation.


Most people who decide on going to university will have been aware of career choices and what they will get out of it all. Not everyone is money driven and aspire to be working as an investment banker, others are content with the simple things in life. There are many reasons why people choose to study a fine arts degree or other subjects that many seem to have their own view on. And actually some degrees that some may view as ''worthless'' may not be because there are transferrable skills that can be gained and applied to workplaces. While they may not get the same returns as other more technical degrees, they will have experienced university, growing up, meeting new people, networking and all aspects, some even change courses as I have personally experienced!


----------



## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> Thanks for sharing. I think it would be great if you could keep this thread updated with the developments, since a lot of us have vested interest in the 17.09 😂


MING notified me this morning that my watch arrived to their Swiss watchmakers without incident. They will analyze the problem on it and the other watches they are receiving and said I'll get an update once they know more.


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

whats_shakin said:


> Horomariobro flipped his 17.09 anyways after blasting Ming


Gosh did he really

$$$$$$$$$$$$$


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

One-Seventy said:


> Gosh did he really
> 
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$


"MING was nasty to me"


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

TecTonic said:


> Most people who decide on going to university will have been aware of career choices and what they will get out of it all. Not everyone is money driven and aspire to be working as an investment banker, others are content with the simple things in life. There are many reasons why people choose to study a fine arts degree or other subjects that many seem to have their own view on. And actually some degrees that some may view as ''worthless'' may not be because there are transferrable skills that can be gained and applied to workplaces. While they may not get the same returns as other more technical degrees, they will have experienced university, growing up, meeting new people, networking and all aspects, some even change courses as I have personally experienced!


Yeah, I didn't use the word "worthless" at all in my reply. This was not my intent at all, I've known people with history degrees, go on to get an MBA and then go on run a very successful business etc (or be an entrepreneur etc.) At the same time, even some more career oriented degrees like MBAs can have poor ROI, even for example if you go to Harvard and then find the available careers are not suitable to your personal preferences. Just simply that there are certain expected (most likely) outcomes when you make certain choices.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> Gosh did he really
> 
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$


guess he really had no other play -- if he returned it, Ming knows who he is and can ban him. It doesn't help his instagram traffic. This way he walks away with a cool profit plus whatever social media gain


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

In other news, I recently added this beautiful watch to my collection. Loving it so far, and still coming to terms with the premium I paid for it. But the heart wanted what the heart wanted.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> In other news, I recently added this beautiful watch to my collection. Loving it so far, and still coming to terms with the premium I paid for it. But the heart wanted what the heart wanted.
> 
> View attachment 16052263


How much did you pay, if you don't mind sharing?

Also, is your B&B avatar gone?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> How much did you pay, if you don't mind sharing?
> 
> Also, is your B&B avatar gone?


Will PM you.

Yeah, slowly stepping out of the watch world and back to real life!


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> guess he really had no other play -- if he returned it, Ming knows who he is and can ban him. It doesn't help his instagram traffic. This way he walks away with a cool profit plus whatever social media gain


"oh no I'll just have to flip it and make $$$$$$$" well my heart bleeds for him and his tasty profits !


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> In other news, I recently added this beautiful watch to my collection. Loving it so far, and still coming to terms with the premium I paid for it. But the heart wanted what the heart wanted.
> 
> View attachment 16052263


Very nice! It looks really good on the bracelet. I will have to buy that to my MxM.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Will PM you.
> 
> Yeah, slowly stepping out of the watch world and back to real life!


would love to know as well, just to get a sense of where the market value is right now


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Yeah, slowly stepping out of the watch world and back to real life!


Hopefully that doesn't mean B&B is stopping!


----------



## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> Can you elaborate a bit on how you found out?
> 
> If true, definitely more proof his real motivation.
> 
> (not that he isn't entitled to sell though)


@whats_shakin , can you shed some light on this? I haven't heard anywhere else about @horomariobro selling the watch.

Btw, I'm pretty sure Ming knows who he is... he's well known across a multitude of brands and collectors.


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## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

WwD said:


> MING notified me this morning that my watch arrived to their Swiss watchmakers without incident. They will analyze the problem on it and the other watches they are receiving and said I'll get an update once they know more.


so I guess the clock starts ticking&#8230;

Do keep us updated on the findings, and I'll be especially interested to know what's the estimated turn-around for you to have the Watch back&#8230;

I'll need to start making plans for mine to be returned soon, too&#8230; (-_-)


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> Because I don't believe there are bad actors in the watch community trying to sabotage someone's watch sale. And if there were, why would they target Massena Lab and not the Chrono Tokyo sale at the same time, or previous MING sales?
> 
> Also, if they were really worried about bad actors, the bad actors could pretty easily ruin their lottery style sale, too, by spamming them with lots of emails so they don't know who legitimate buyers are. I don't know much about DDoS attacks, but it seems easier to undermine the integrity of a lottery sale that is conducted through an email registration by sending lots of spam emails to that email address then it does to organize an attack on a whole website. But least with a lottery sale they can save face because they can now allot the watches to whomever they want to without any transparency, rather than actually trying to put them up on a website and giving everyone a crack at buying one.
> 
> I'm not saying that they will necessarily do that, but they could if their email gets spammed (because we won't know) and they don't want to admit that they blew that, too.


Just responding to my earlier thread since I totally predicted that the lottery process would not be transparent. Here's what Massena said about the lottery:

_As we announced last week, we have decided to allocate watches by a random draw. Individuals selected in this draw will have the right (but not the obligation) to buy one watch from the MING x Massena LAB 17.09 release of 50 honey dials or from the 150 black dials. Out of the same privacy concerns that we maintain for all clients of Massena LAB, we will not be making any public announcement of the names of winners that are selected in our drawing. We are making no representation about the number of names selected.

It is our intention to make this drawing as fair as possible._

But a fairly high percentage of these watches went to industry insiders and high-profile collectors (at least ten percent of the yellow colorway, from what I can tell from people showing them off on Instagram or talking about getting one on podcasts, etc.).

I know that folks are chattering about this a bit, but has there been any response from Massena or any of the folks who scored the watches about how they got it?


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

conrad227 said:


> But a fairly high percentage of these watches went to industry insiders and high-profile collectors (at least ten percent of the yellow colorway, from what I can tell from people showing them off on Instagram or talking about getting one on podcasts, etc.).
> 
> I know that folks are chattering about this a bit, but has there been any response from Massena or any of the folks who scored the watches about how they got it?


I did NOT get one but I am not overly surprised if the lottery wasn't very transparent. Let's be honest, if it had been a regular sale (as was originally intended) would we have known if that was done fairly and would we have known that they actually sold the entire edition via that sale? I think we would be kidding ourselves to not realize that Massena likely would have kept some back for "industry insiders and high profile collectors" as you call them.....so if he did that with the lottery what is the difference? I would have loved to have gotten one but Massena could likely decide how he allocated these watches....that is unless Ming required him to prove in some way how the recipients of the watches were determined. Ce la vie!


----------



## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

conrad227 said:


> I know that folks are chattering about this a bit, but has there been any response from Massena or any of the folks who scored the watches about how they got it?


I was already signed up for their notifications on the watch so I did not send a separate email in once they went lottery as per their guidance those on the contact list were already in. A few days later I got an email from Massena LAB offering me the option of only buying the black dial, with instructions on what to do if I wanted it. I accepted.

While I have a watch YouTube channel I have under 1,000 subscribers (and back during the sale I don't think I was even at 200) so I think it's fair to say I'm a nobody in the hobby. I've never bought anything from MING or Massena LAB before.


----------



## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

WwD said:


> I was already signed up for their notifications on the watch so I did not send a separate email in once they went lottery as per their guidance those on the contact list were already in. A few days later I got an email from Massena LAB offering me the option of only buying the black dial, with instructions on what to do if I wanted it. I accepted.
> 
> While I have a watch YouTube channel I have under 1,000 subscribers (and back during the sale I don't think I was even at 200) so I think it's fair to say I'm a nobody in the hobby. I've never bought anything from MING or Massena LAB before.


Ha.. If you're "nobody" in the hobby, then I'll be an "atom" in the universe of this hobby.

First, you'll noticed I'm new to this forum... Because of the Black Honeycomb I bought.

I have Zero YouTube presence, Zero Facebook, Zero Twitter, Zero Instagram, Zero Social Media...

I was also already signed up for their notification, but that email account wasn't the winning ticket... It was my separate (and only other) email which I used to sign up for the lottery draw that got lucky..

The rest of the process is similar to what you've explained. I was also only given the option to purchase the Black, which was really the one I wanted, so I was good with the offer.

I've never bought Ming nor Massena prior to this, no idea who or what they represent before May 2021, neva own an automatic watch prior - only have a budget Casio, Garmin n quartz CK chrono..

So from my perspective, the draw is really quite random... No reason why a noob like me should be given any priority for getting one....

And the twist to my story? 
I wasn't even looking at getting Ming Massena initially.. My first choice was Kurono's TOKI (helps it's cheaper as well)!! 
I was simply looking for my first automatic watch, which is more "left-field", being the Contrarian I am... 
Fortunately or unfortunately, my Credit Card had payment issues during the 10mins window by Kurono... So I failed to buy one then.
I chanced upon Massena-Ming's draw, as an alternate Watch choice.. Read up a bit about Ming & Massena, liked 17.09's design, got lucky with the Draw, had to starve a few more weeks to bump up the budget, and am happy with my purchase now (less the misaligned hour hand...)


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

conrad227 said:


> Just responding to my earlier thread since I totally predicted that the lottery process would not be transparent. Here's what Massena said about the lottery:
> 
> _As we announced last week, we have decided to allocate watches by a random draw. Individuals selected in this draw will have the right (but not the obligation) to buy one watch from the MING x Massena LAB 17.09 release of 50 honey dials or from the 150 black dials. Out of the same privacy concerns that we maintain for all clients of Massena LAB, we will not be making any public announcement of the names of winners that are selected in our drawing. We are making no representation about the number of names selected.
> 
> ...


From my unscientific browsing of instagram, it seems like most of the honey were allocated to friends of Massena or higher profile collectors who likely knew him. There are even a few examples of both the honey and black dial in black DLC cases.

The black seemed to be more up for grabs for "normal" collectors, and the lottery seemed to have worked here.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

The black dial was perhaps part of the SPC lineup, like they did with the slate 17.06 in the past. But yeah, the honey seems to have found it's way to some important folks, no doubt. I imagine Massena had plenty of VIP guests to take care of before these went into the lottery system.


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> The black dial was perhaps part of the SPC lineup, like they did with the slate 17.06 in the past. But yeah, the honey seems to have found it's way to some important folks, no doubt. I imagine Massena had plenty of VIP guests to take care of before these went into the lottery system.


Which I personally think is totally OK. It would have been this way anyway. I like the black one most based on pure looks. The honey will always be the more expensive one because it is more limited. Would it have been as popular if it was 100+100?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

monsters said:


> From my unscientific browsing of instagram, it seems like most of the honey were allocated to friends of Massena or higher profile collectors who likely knew him. There are even a few examples of both the honey and black dial in black DLC cases.
> 
> The black seemed to be more up for grabs for "normal" collectors, and the lottery seemed to have worked here.


Don't disagree about who got the honey based on what I have seen as well.

The DLC you reference is NOT REAL! At least I have seen NO confirmation that there were other variations of the case other than those due to editing of the photos or the lighting effects.

This lucky owner seems to like to make it look like a DLC case:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CSXfqR0L9b6/


__
http://instagr.am/p/CSIu-bvLwL9/


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

christianj said:


> Don't disagree about who got the honey based on what I have seen as well.
> 
> The DLC you reference is NOT REAL! At least I have seen NO confirmation that there were other variations of the case other than those due to editing of the photos or the lighting effects.
> 
> ...


According to at least one person that poster such a case (founder of monochrome) it is indeed dlc. Read the comments.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

horolo_gy said:


> According to at least one person that poster such a case (founder of monochrome) it is indeed dlc. Read the comments.


I did...where are you getting your confirmation out of the comments? Anything is possible but if you saw it proved or documented please post this.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

christianj said:


> I did...where are you getting your confirmation out of the comments? Anything is possible but if you saw it proved or documented please post this.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

horolo_gy said:


>


Ok thanks! Guess we need to believe him and that he wasn't pulling someones leg. I stand corrected!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> Ok thanks! Guess we need to believe him and that he wasn't pulling someones leg. I stand corrected!


@beans_and_bezels on IG is my profile, and I asked @hewitgar about his too, and he said its a DLC black case.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

christianj said:


> Ok thanks! Guess we need to believe him and that he wasn't pulling someones leg. I stand corrected!


Chiming in to confirm that those are indeed black DLC cases and not the result of any photo editing/tricky lighting. Ming's made small runs of DLC versions of a number of different watches in their lineup. They've traditionally gone to either Ming team members or friends/family; I assume Massena allocated them similarly here.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

nooch_blackhoneycomb said:


> Ha.. If you're "nobody" in the hobby, then I'll be an "atom" in the universe of this hobby.
> 
> First, you'll noticed I'm new to this forum... Because of the Black Honeycomb I bought.
> 
> ...


its pretty interesting to me that you chose to go this route with your first automatic given your current brands. in the same situation, i think i would have done a big known brand first before messing with these smaller brands...


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## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

golffoxtrot said:


> its pretty interesting to me that you chose to go this route with your first automatic given your current brands. in the same situation, i think i would have done a big known brand first before messing with these smaller brands...


I'm a Contrarian... ;O)


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Oh no, I guess some people are "not bonding"...


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

I personally don't think they will, or should, sell at those ridiculous prices. Would be kinda fun watching these flippers start undercutting eachother to get a quick sale.

I'm not a flipper, but it's fun to think about this. IF these watches actually sell at those prices... Buy a ~$3000 watch, sell for ~7000 instantly. Then buy a Zenith El Primero or a JLC Reverso for ~$7000 (I use these 2 as examples because I've been window shopping them). And walk away being like "I just bought a El Primero for 3000."

I can definitely see why it is so attractive to hop in on these 'FOMO-easy-flip' watches with that in mind :O


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## noregrets (Nov 21, 2014)

Exactly, One-Seventy is always pointing out the Chrono24 prices but I just don't see them selling for that. The Mings I have sold didn't go for nearly the inflated prices listed on that site and elsewhere. There should be a meme about the disconnect between Chrono24 asking prices and reality.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

noregrets said:


> Exactly, One-Seventy is always pointing out the Chrono24 prices but I just don't see them selling for that. The Mings I have sold didn't go for nearly the inflated prices listed on that site and elsewhere. There should be a meme about the disconnect between Chrono24 asking prices and reality.


Yeah, Chrono24 pricing has lost any/all credibility. It's just a big joke, and keeps up appearances for grey market dealers to manipulate the market. I can't imagine this is good for Chrono24 in the long run, if people stop trusting their prices, and maybe it would be a good idea to include sold prices too. But I suppose that information is valuable to all the companies they're selling data too... and of course LVMH/Hodinkee that just injecting $100million into C24?


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

For models with more data points there is the "Performance of A Similar Model" graph at the bottom of the listing. But I am not sure if this is the price that the watch actually sold for after bargaining or what it was originally listed for.


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## BevisFrondFan (May 26, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> Yeah, Chrono24 pricing has lost any/all credibility. It's just a big joke, and keeps up appearances for grey market dealers to manipulate the market. I can't imagine this is good for Chrono24 in the long run, if people stop trusting their prices, and maybe it would be a good idea to include sold prices too. But I suppose that information is valuable to all the companies they're selling data too... and of course LVMH/Hodinkee that just injecting $100million into C24?


Does Chrono24 set prices? I thought they were just a marketplace with some structure to promote transaction integrity.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

BevisFrondFan said:


> Does Chrono24 set prices? I thought they were just a marketplace with some structure to promote transaction integrity.


They don't set prices, but Chrono24 has quickly become the "go to" location for "market prices". Grey market dealers use Chrono24 pricing as a benchmark, and I've even heard of Rolex ADs who will charge you based on Chrono24 prices for their inventory.


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## BevisFrondFan (May 26, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> They don't set prices, but Chrono24 has quickly become the "go to" location for "market prices". Grey market dealers use Chrono24 pricing as a benchmark, and I've even heard of Rolex ADs who will charge you based on Chrono24 prices for their inventory.


Okay, I'll buy that. When I searching for a watch of interest I will often land on Chrono24 and see what the offered prices are...


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## ark1985 (Aug 1, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> They don't set prices, but Chrono24 has quickly become the "go to" location for "market prices". Grey market dealers use Chrono24 pricing as a benchmark, and I've even heard of Rolex ADs who will charge you based on Chrono24 prices for their inventory.


And most of the time, those prices in Chrono24 are set by themselves...


----------



## Thadeust (Dec 14, 2018)

noregrets said:


> Exactly, One-Seventy is always pointing out the Chrono24 prices but I just don't see them selling for that. The Mings I have sold didn't go for nearly the inflated prices listed on that site and elsewhere. There should be a meme about the disconnect between Chrono24 asking prices and reality.


Exactly! It's the same with Ebay auctions. A seller will say oh they are listed for $X dollars on eBay.

However that is the listing price and not the selling price. The latter is much lower usually.

I wish Chrono24 would advertise the actual final selling price.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Perception is reality. It's a nice idea to think that a reputable seller will charge what he thinks the market will value it at, but like all other traders, he doesn't want to leave money in the table. So C24 current selling prices it is.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

guillelle said:


> Someone needs to talk to Ming and Massena and give them some advice on crisis management...
> 
> Now that a bigger fish has posted about the issue, Ming Thein himself has decided to weigh in, and boy it's a car crash! Maybe I'm too critical of the brand by now, but what I got from his replies were a half-assed apology and lots of blame everywhere except on Ming: the shipping caused the issue, people are posting too much about it, they (Ming) are being mistreated...
> 
> ...


Yeah I also think you're too critical on the brand. They offer a refund and fixing the watch and the owner reached out to you directly. What do you want a free dinner too? Lol. It's a sub $5k watch, it's not like someone sold their soul here&#8230;


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## ark1985 (Aug 1, 2019)

Kevkev1 said:


> Yeah I also think you're too critical on the brand. They offer a refund and fixing the watch and the owner reached out to you directly. What do you want a free dinner too? Lol. It's a sub $5k watch, it's not like someone sold their soul here&#8230;


I beg to differ. To you $3k seems like nothing much, but to a lot of us, $3k is really not cheap at all. Ming now offers a refund / fix only AFTER this PR disaster. To me, i think they should have done that in the first place and not being arrogant. They started out in social media, and now they are not happy and talk rubbish when disgruntled customers pointed it out in social media.

Even though I cannot afford their watches now, i most likely won't support them in the future based on their customer service attitude, even i can afford it.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

ark1985 said:


> I beg to differ. To you $3k seems like nothing much, but to a lot of us, $3k is really not cheap at all. Ming now offers a refund / fix only AFTER this PR disaster. To me, i think they should have done that in the first place and not being arrogant. They started out in social media, and now they are not happy and talk rubbish when disgruntled customers pointed it out in social media.
> 
> Even though I cannot afford their watches now, i most likely won't support them in the future based on their customer service attitude, even i can afford it.


I think they had always offered a refund or fix to the customer, although it seems they at first asked for like a $100 processing fee.

This situation doesn't look great for Ming the brand and the person, but the way I see it someone decided to publicly troll them and they got sucked into it and made it worse for themselves rather than letting it blow over. Based on what I've read in terms of Ming's responses to the offended customer, the messages were touchy and aggressive, but the guy is a human. If I was being put through a public struggle session about something that I held dear to me it would be hard for me not to get defensive, especially with the other side trying to bait me so much.

In my experience with the company (I own one of their watches and have a couple more on order) the customer service has always been very good. I think you should feel comfortable buying a watch from them in the future and getting a high quality product that's guaranteed to function and be repaired under warranty, no matter how much money you spend on it. Even more so after this event where they have received so much criticism (a lot of it overblown), you can anticipate a more tightly run ship when it comes to QC control issues in the future, both making sure that they don't happen and also being more responsive if they do.


----------



## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

ark1985 said:


> I beg to differ. To you $3k seems like nothing much, but to a lot of us, $3k is really not cheap at all. Ming now offers a refund / fix only AFTER this PR disaster. To me, i think they should have done that in the first place and not being arrogant. They started out in social media, and now they are not happy and talk rubbish when disgruntled customers pointed it out in social media.
> 
> Even though I cannot afford their watches now, i most likely won't support them in the future based on their customer service attitude, even i can afford it.


I'm not sure which came first... "PR Disaster" or "Offer for Refund/Repair"...

But in my case, I emailed Massena on the 3rd Aug, and on the same day (albeit USA day), I received the reply from Massena with an offer of Refund or Repair...

Disgruntled Customers should talk to Massena / Ming / Seller-of-whatever-Item-You-Bought-from... 
How does "talking to" Social Media help with their situation?!? (-_-)


----------



## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

ark1985 said:


> I beg to differ. To you $3k seems like nothing much, but to a lot of us, $3k is really not cheap at all. Ming now offers a refund / fix only AFTER this PR disaster. To me, i think they should have done that in the first place and not being arrogant. They started out in social media, and now they are not happy and talk rubbish when disgruntled customers pointed it out in social media.
> 
> Even though I cannot afford their watches now, i most likely won't support them in the future based on their customer service attitude, even i can afford it.


I just want to point out that this is not entirely true. I have one of the black watches that are being fixed now. I got in touch with Massena Lab totally independent of that IG post or any other (anti)social media. I did what I believe most normal people would do, I contacted the company and they reached out and said that they want to fix the watch for me.

This was BEFORE the famous IG post.

People that are loud about being wronged is just something we and companies have to learn to live with. As this example showed there is probably nothing, except maybe a fancy dinner ?, that would have satisfied this loud IG person.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Thadeust said:


> Exactly! It's the same with Ebay auctions. A seller will say oh they are listed for $X dollars on eBay.
> 
> However that is the listing price and not the selling price. The latter is much lower usually.
> 
> I wish Chrono24 would advertise the actual final selling price.


but if you talk to some on the thread that have bought second hand, you will realize also that the C24 price is still somehow a reference, especially if there's multiple listings, and you take out the "extreme" examples, you just need to reduce it by a percentage and that gives you a rough idea. Its not like its overpriced by 50% or something like that I would say


----------



## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Kevkev1 said:


> Yeah I also think you're too critical on the brand. They offer a refund and fixing the watch and the owner reached out to you directly. What do you want a free dinner too? Lol. It's a sub $5k watch, it's not like someone sold their soul here&#8230;


As I said, this for me was just one more thing that piles up... It's ok for you to think that MT/Massena handling of this issue has been perfect, I think they could have been a bit more apologetic. And while they have every right to cut off customers that criticize them on social media, I can't help to find that just petty and a display of insecurity on their own work.

And my personal take is that part of this insecurity comes from their ill-advised decision of releasing these with a jumping-hour-setting feature and cut corners by using the GMT hand of the SW330-2.

In any case, as someone waiting for a 17.06 shipment, I am hoping that they can fix the issue at the core and come up with a solution.


----------



## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

guillelle said:


> As I said, this for me was just one more thing that piles up... It's ok for you to think that MT/Massena handling of this issue has been perfect, I think they could have been a bit more apologetic. And while they have every right to cut off customers that criticize them on social media, I can't help to find that just petty and a display of insecurity on their own work.
> 
> And my personal take is that part of this insecurity comes from their ill-advised decision of releasing these with a jumping-hour-setting feature and cut corners by using the GMT hand of the SW330-2.
> 
> In any case, as someone waiting for a 17.06 shipment, I am hoping that they can fix the issue at the core and come up with a solution.


Perhaps we shd let them have a chance to tear-down the Watch to troubleshoot, diagnose, fix, and then explain/assure.

Without facts, we're probably just speculating on the root cause and jumping the gun on what really transpired... "cut corners", or "cut cost", or "bulk discount" or "empty promises" or "bad luck" or... anything could be a possibility...


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

nooch_blackhoneycomb said:


> Perhaps we shd let them have a chance to tear-down the Watch to troubleshoot, diagnose, fix, and then explain/assure.


Pretty sure they had a chance to do that when they where modifying the movement.



> Without facts, we're probably just speculating on the root cause and jumping the gun on what really transpired... "cut corners", or "cut cost", or "bulk discount" or "empty promises" or "bad luck" or... anything could be a possibility...


Exactly. That's why you prototype, test, retest and retest again before delivering a watch to costumers, even more when you're working on numbers as low as these. I mean, even the PR photos had misaligned hands!

You don't avoid speculation by begging the public to "be nice and give you time". You avoid it by delivering a good product. Sht always happens, yes, it's a certainty. It's up to the brand to decide how to deal with it. Trying to shift the blame to everyone but themselves is hardly a good course of action.

And before my last sentence is "attacked", I'll quote:

_"there are a small handful of issues that keep getting reshared and as a result look more pervasive than reality" _- with a 200 piece limited edition they should have been zero; also, saying it's being overshared solves nothing while shifting the blame to the costumer. Oh, and it wasn't overshared, there just are that many broken watches.

_"It's a bit unfair to cry wolf on social media before even getting in contact and giving us a chance to rectify the problem"_ - we've discussed this one more than enough already.

_"Thirdly, 1709s ARE specifically tested for hand alignment when they leave us, but please remember there are also several shipping legs before they reach the owners and those are out of our control"_ - the major culprit of blame-shifting. A movement that drags the hour hand has got nothing to do with hand alignment when installing them, and saying the shipping may have caused the problem is either disingenuous or plain stupid. Wonder why this problem has virtually never happened before when all watches are shipped at some point in their lives...

_"Finally, all watches are precision mechanical devices. We and everybody else aims for a 100% hit rate, but this is impossible. All we ask is to be given a fair chance to fix any issues before being put to public trial"_ - again, the costumers are the ones to blame for highlighting the problem, instead of quietly contacting ming, maybe having it fixed and no-one else being the wiser. If it's good, like and share! If it's not.... _shhhhh..._ Mr Thein should know by now that's not how any of this works....

Finally, notice how not once it was said "it is possible the modifications to the movement have created an unforeseen problem". No acknowledgement whatsoever that the problem might be on their end.


----------



## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

jmariorebelo said:


> Pretty sure they had a chance to do that when they where modifying the movement.
> 
> Exactly. That's why you prototype, test, retest and retest again before delivering a watch to costumers, even more when you're working on numbers as low as these. I mean, even the PR photos had misaligned hands!
> 
> ...


I guess my lenses are being tinted by my occupation... being in the Customer Support Business...

It's a difficult act trying to protect my Company/Employer, and at the same time pacify upset Customers... (- _-)
Been there, done that. Lol.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

nooch_blackhoneycomb said:


> I guess my lenses are being tinted by my occupation... being in the Customer Support Business...
> 
> It's a difficult act trying to protect my Company/Employer, and at the same time pacify upset Customers... (- _-)
> Been there, done that. Lol.


Oh mine are surely tinted too, never been in anything close to customer support. That's why these forums are great, you get to read about both sides, nurture discussion.


----------



## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

Is it just me getting tired of this issue being turned inside out endlessly?
Google ”insert car manufacturer” recalls and see that worse things have happened than the recall of a batch of wrist watches 😉

I rather see pictures of Ming watches.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Baramats said:


> Is it just me getting tired of this issue being turned inside out endlessly?
> Google "insert car manufacturer" recalls and see that worse things have happened than the recall of a batch of wrist watches ?


And I'm sure that car forums had their way around the issues too.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> Pretty sure they had a chance to do that when they where modifying the movement.


You're sayinf zero - like, _absolute_ zero - tolerance for any flaw? Ok. I'm guessing that you're not in an industry that produces anything tangible. Because if you were, you might end up with a customer just like you. And he'll tear you to pieces.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> You're sayinf zero - like, _absolute_ zero - tolerance for any flaw? Ok. I'm guessing that you're not in an industry that produces anything tangible. Because if you were, you might end up with a customer just like you. And he'll tear you to pieces.


I have tolerance to flaws, of course. But I don't consider 5% acceptable as Mr Thein did, let alone in such a low volume launch as this one.

One thing is hands slightly off from installation. Another is a faulty movement precisely in the mechanism they modified. Some may say the modifications should excuse them as it's new, I think the opposite. Schwarz Ettiene know what they're doing and this should only have highlight the problem to then even more. They can't say "we get the movements like this from the supplier".

And... I'm a railway engineer, working in catenary and pantograph research, design and computational modelling. If we have a project that's not going up to par (as it so often happens with research, we're breaking new ground), we explain why and fix it, even if it means overtime. We don't deliver anything that isn't triple checked. Can't afford to. In a way that's one less hurdle for hype brands, even if they mess up, there's always a horde of people willing to buy their extremely limited releases... Rendering the mess up ultimately inconsequential.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Has Ming further addressed any of this recently? (aside from Ming Thein's response a few weeks ago). I'm really hoping and expecting them to say something, because being completely silent after that just makes me, as a customer, more anxious :S

I know they only recently started to receive customer's returned watches. But as I mentioned in a earlier post, I find it hard to believe they don't have spare movements / parts / fully assembled models for them to look into... long before receiving customer's returned watches.

Also, I just checked their instagram, and some of the comments there are pretty.... negative. Looks like Ming is being dumped on by a lot of people right now.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

While I agree with a lot of what that you've said, I think it is worth noting that even under the best of circumstances, mistakes happen. I'm a robotics engineer, and I work in research as well. Stuff goes wrong even if you triple check and check it once more. And like you said, when stuff does go wrong... you fix it. Stuff went wrong here for MING, and they claim to be doing what needs to be done to fix it, based on information from customers in this thread who have the issue. So maybe we wait and let them fix it? MING is also not the first brand to mess up a new movement - TAG Autavia, Tudor GMT, Grand Seiko's latest and greatest 9SA5, and countless other movements have had issues post launch, and the MING Cal. 330.M1 will be just one more. Even Rolex doesn't always get it right... I'm not saying this should absolve MING, but should at least put into perspective that they aren't the only ones that fall victim to these kinds of issues.

As for everything you've said about them poorly communicating the situation, sure they could've done better. At least they're willing to acknowledge that there could be an issue, unlike most brands that just pretend the issue doesn't exist but silently work away in the service centers to fix their screwups.



> _Finally, all watches are precision mechanical devices. We and everybody else aims for a 100% hit rate, but this is impossible. All we ask is to be given a fair chance to fix any issues before being put to public trial"_ - again, the costumers are the ones to blame for highlighting the problem, instead of quietly contacting ming, maybe having it fixed and no-one else being the wiser. If it's good, like and share! If it's not.... _shhhhh..._ Mr Thein should know by now that's not how any of this works....


We can re-hash this crap over and over again, and dissect the semantics, but I don't believe this was just a customer getting blamed for "highlighting the problem". This was a deliberate pot stirring with the sole purpose of invoking a s**tstorm. And if that customer really wanted to just "highlight the problem", he would've at least contacted MING or Massena like the rest of the folks with the issue before him and after him.



PuYang said:


> Has Ming further addressed any of this recently? (aside from Ming Thein's response a few weeks ago). I'm really hoping and expecting them to say something, because being completely silent after that just makes me, as a customer, more anxious :S


I think it is in the MING team's best interest to not discuss this futher until it has been fixed. Like you said, their social media is not pretty, so it wouldn't make sense to rekindle that flame yet. But I have reached out to them since I have a 17.09 on order, and if you have any concerns I suggest getting in touch with them directly. They were happy to discuss my concerns.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> As for everything you've said about them poorly communicating the situation, sure they could've done better. At least they're willing to acknowledge that there could be an issue, unlike most brands that just pretend the issue doesn't exist but silently work away in the service centers to fix their screwups.


I don't believe any of the criticisms towards them has anything to do with the repairs, I think we all know they'll do it. And ditto on the other brands... Ming was still a lot better than the norm, but this time the approach left a bit to be desired. It being a co-branded effort certainly didn't help... Though I haven't seen the Massena messages myself.



> We can re-hash this crap over and over again, and dissect the semantics, but I don't believe this was just a customer getting blamed for "highlighting the problem". This was a deliberate pot stirring with the sole purpose of invoking a s**tstorm.


I mean, that's what he does, he stirs up the pot. When it's good it draws praise, when it's bad it draws ****storms. The only reason the fromage posts about Patek didn't end up like the ming situation is because Patek do not interact with their customers. In a way that's terrible, we're just a costumer number etcetc, in another way it also shield them from situations like this one on the instagram comments.



> And if that customer really wanted to just "highlight the problem", he would've at least contacted MING or Massena like the rest of the folks with the issue before him and after him.


That's what I would have done, but then again I don't own a 20k strong platform from which to shout my ideas out to the world. His highlights are to his followers, not the brand.

In the end they both approached the situation poorly, and neither excuses the other. I just hope the blue and burgundy 17.02 come out problem free and we can move past this and go back to discussing market prices ?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> I don't believe any of the criticisms towards them has anything to do with the repairs, I think we all know they'll do it. And ditto on the other brands... Ming was still a lot better than the norm, but this time the approach left a bit to be desired. It being a co-branded effort certainly didn't help... Though I haven't seen the Massena messages myself.
> 
> I mean, that's what he does, he stirs up the pot. When it's good it draws praise, when it's bad it draws ****storms. The only reason the fromage posts about Patek didn't end up like the ming situation is because Patek do not interact with their customers. In a way that's terrible, we're just a costumer number etcetc, in another way it also shield them from situations like this one on the instagram comments.
> 
> ...


To be fair, I was a big fan and followed his Instagram page *religiously*. I use links to his photographs often in my own written articles. But after this, I realized it is just another outlet for sensationalism. A fair criticism and highlighting of this issue would have been if he approached MING x Massena with the issue, let them screw that up (since their customer service is horrible right?), and then highlighted it thoroughly and fairly.

But when Ming offered the only two things they could - a refund or a repair, he _declined._ You don't decline service and then whine about the next day. (Unless of course, you've already lined up to sell that faulty/broken watch for $13k). I won't be shedding any tears for him. Apart from him and his sensationalism, I don't see any other owners of a broken/faulty MING behaving the same way. I think there's a few in this thread, and they all seem to be willing to give MING a chance to fix their screwup before trying to publicly name and shame them. And if MING does fail to do right by their 17.09 customers, I'll join in on the s**t shoveling.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> I just hope the blue and burgundy 17.02 come out problem free and we can move past this and go back to discussing market prices 😁


You mean like this absolutely ridiculous one? 😂





__





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----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> You mean like this absolutely ridiculous one? 😂
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wait that's not gold?? Jeeeeesus....


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Wait that's not gold?? Jeeeeesus....


S. Song just listed one of them yesterday, and I must say they're good looking pieces. But obviously not $35k good looking. At $35k, it better be all gold with a handwritten note from the robot that made the case.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

Is this listing real? 
Wow talk about being delusional if this not some kind of joke.


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## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

A lot of over-expectation and tonnes of speculations. Too much hype. If the scale of issue is unknown and too big to handle, Ming may just close its shop and forget about it. The resale market may go ever crazier after that.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

nooch_blackhoneycomb said:


> I'm not sure which came first... "PR Disaster" or "Offer for Refund/Repair"...
> 
> But in my case, I emailed Massena on the 3rd Aug, and on the same day (albeit USA day), I received the reply from Massena with an offer of Refund or Repair...
> 
> ...


$$$$?


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> $$$$?


Or maybe they like to showcase the highs and lows of the industry to help and educate other people?

Does anyone think that an account like @horomariobro with less than 20k followers is making any money from IG? Don't make me laugh...


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> I have tolerance to flaws, of course. But I don't consider 5% acceptable as Mr Thein did, let alone in such a low volume launch as this one.


So perhaps I've missed something The original owner, who megaphoned all his problems to the planet, _did _try to get his watch fixed first, the usual way people used to when they were more grown-up, and Ming said "yeah, 5% of them are going to be f***** and I guess yours is just one of 'em, sunshine, so suck it up"? Well that's fair enough. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen though.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

guillelle said:


> Or maybe they like to showcase the highs and lows of the industry to help and educate other people?
> 
> Does anyone think that an account like @horomariobro with less than 20k followers is making any money from IG? Don't make me laugh...


I'm sorry, is he supposed to start with a million or two?

Unless he's just a venting narcissist, it always has a purpose. _Always_.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> I'm sorry, is he supposed to start with a million or two?
> 
> Unless he's just a venting narcissist, it always has a purpose. _Always_.


Can you please take a look at his collection first? I don't think he needs Instagram money.

Also, I guess that cynical statement that there's always a non altruistic intention says more about you than about horomariobro...


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

guillelle said:


> Can you please take a look at his collection first? I don't think he needs Instagram money.
> 
> Also, I guess that cynical statement that there's always a non altruistic intention says more about you than about horomariobro...


Right, and how do you think that collection got there in the first place?

Look, the "watch bro" didn't get 100% adulation from his social media post. Still, that's never guaranteed. You cannot _force _someone to like it. Some people, including me, think the reaction was self-entitled and deliberately outlandish as if designed to maximise publicity. If you want fawning sympathy, you'll have to get it from somewhere else.


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## ryanb741 (May 31, 2006)

My black dial Massena is on its way to Schwartz Etienne today so I'll keep everyone updated. It is unfortunate but I don't think Ming could have done much more than they are doing now - arranging free shipping to the watchmaker, providing personalised contact and updates etc. It's not like they are Omega where I could go into hundreds of ADs to get things rolling. I'm confident they will sort this out. I don't think this has diminished people's appetites for the Massenas or Mings either


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> Right, and how do you think that collection got there in the first place?
> 
> Look, the "watch bro" didn't get 100% adulation from his social media post. Still, that's never guaranteed. You cannot _force _someone to like it. Some people, including me, think the reaction was self-entitled and deliberately outlandish as if designed to maximise publicity. If you want fawning sympathy, you'll have to get it from somewhere else.


Man, I don't really know where to start&#8230; if you think he got his collection from Instagram advertising money I think that's the end of the discussion. We're talking FP Journe, MB&F, De Bethune, Gronefeld, Voutilainen&#8230;

And he wasn't forcing anyone to like anything. He got a watch with an issue, and he posted about it, the same as he does with 6-figures watches.

Also, can we try to get this right? He posted about the issue with his Ming AFTER several posts/comments (10+) were already out there complaining about the hands issue, and questioned to which extent this was a common issue on the watch (turns out is VERY common). At this point, both Ming and Massena were quiet, and were asking some customers outside of the US for a 100$ shipping charge to inspect the watch.

And because he was the first one with a decent amount of followers, he triggered the first public acknowledge from Ming and then the full "refund/repair, free shipping" comms ensued.

How this is still seen from some of you as a "moneygrab" or an "attention whore" move from the very same guy that did this to his Patek is beyond my understanding.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

guillelle said:


> How this is still seen from some of you as a "moneygrab" or an "attention whore" move from the very same guy that did this to his Patek is beyond my understanding.


Just because you call out a Patek for ****ty finishing, doesn't mean you're not, and I quote you.. "an attention whore" and trying to "money grab". People with tons of money do silly things for attention all the time.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

guillelle said:


> At this point, both Ming and Massena were quiet, and were asking some customers outside of the US for a 100$ shipping charge to inspect the watch.
> 
> And because he was the first one with a decent amount of followers, he triggered the first public acknowledge from Ming and then the full "refund/repair, free shipping" comms ensued.


I believe Massena had already spoken to customers and decided to waive the $100 shipping fee before those posts were made. @WwD and @whats_shakin can confirm if this is true, since they both had been in contact with Massena prior to the s**tstorm regarding theirs.


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## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> I believe Massena had already spoken to customers and decided to waive the $100 shipping fee before those posts were made. @WwD and @whats_shakin can confirm if this is true, since they both had been in contact with Massena prior to the s**tstorm regarding theirs.


But for Massena to even charge the customers $100 shipping fee right from the beginning doesn't seem right? Would it not have made more sense for them to arrange a return on their behalf. Perhaps the decision to waive the fee because the issue was more than they anticipated and made a few customers unhappy...


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

guillelle said:


> Man, I don't really know where to start&#8230; if you think he got his collection from Instagram advertising money I think that's the end of the discussion.


I didn't say that, but anyway - yes it is!


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## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

One-Seventy said:


> I didn't say that, but anyway - yes it is!


Just out of curiosity, how could Horomariobro be making money from his personal IG account? I don't actually see his posts partnering with any brand or actively promoting anything.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

TecTonic said:


> But for Massena to even charge the customers $100 shipping fee right from the beginning doesn't seem right? Would it not have made more sense for them to arrange a return on their behalf. Perhaps the decision to waive the fee because the issue was more than they anticipated and made a few customers unhappy...


Yep, I think that was unfair, but paying return shipping for a servicing request is part of their terms and conditions I think. Not that I agree with it in this particular instance, but they may have just been playing by their own rules until they realized the customers won't accept it.



TecTonic said:


> Just out of curiosity, how could Horomariobro be making money from his personal IG account? I don't actually see his posts partnering with any brand or actively promoting anything.


I don't think you can actually monetize IG easily, unless you're an influencer peddling the latest and greatest Detox tea or lip gloss. I doubt he makes any money off IG to be fair.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I don't think you can actually monetize IG easily, unless you're an influencer peddling the latest and greatest Detox tea or lip gloss. I doubt he makes any money off IG to be fair.


Everyone I know that makes money on insta is from "collabs". I don't think you can monetize an instagram account like you can a youtube channel and earn money according to views/subs/likes/etc.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

nooch_blackhoneycomb said:


> Perhaps we shd let them have a chance to tear-down the Watch to troubleshoot, diagnose, fix, and then explain/assure.
> 
> Without facts, we're probably just speculating on the root cause and jumping the gun on what really transpired... "cut corners", or "cut cost", or "bulk discount" or "empty promises" or "bad luck" or... anything could be a possibility...


Yeah agree, some keep bringing up the GMT feature but as someone posted before, the slipping hour hand could also equally happen on a 3-hander


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Yep, I think that was unfair, but paying return shipping for a servicing request is part of their terms and conditions I think. Not that I agree with it in this particular instance, but they may have just been playing by their own rules until they realized the customers won't accept it.
> 
> I don't think you can actually monetize IG easily, unless you're an influencer peddling the latest and greatest Detox tea or lip gloss. I doubt he makes any money off IG to be fair.


Are you sure? I just googled "monetize IG" and this came up:


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

guillelle said:


> Or maybe they like to showcase the highs and lows of the industry to help and educate other people?
> 
> Does anyone think that an account like @horomariobro with less than 20k followers is making any money from IG? Don't make me laugh...


I do. Not an expert, but it seems 1K follows is the threshold to make money on IG (according to quick google)


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> I do. Not an expert, but it seems 1K follows is the threshold to make money on IG (according to quick google)


I think it has less to do with the followers, and more to do with particular products you're trying to sell. The platform itself does not have a way to give you money for each post, in the same way YouTube will generously give you $0.001 for each view. I've got 5k followers, but don't make any direct revenue from the platform. Some brands have sent me straps and I'll occasionally post a picture of it, but that's about it.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I think it has less to do with the followers, and more to do with particular products you're trying to sell. The platform itself does not have a way to give you money for each post, in the same way YouTube will generously give you $0.001 for each view. I've got 5k followers, but don't make any direct revenue from the platform. Some brands have sent me straps and I'll occasionally post a picture of it, but that's about it.


Apparently they do ad revenue with IGTV but does anyone actually use that thing?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Apparently they do ad revenue with IGTV but does anyone actually use that thing?


Brb, making TikTok dances for my IGTV to bring in that $$


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Was watching Watchbox stream yesterday, and TIm was talking about a bunch of watches ( and movements) that had mechanical issues that persisted for years from major brands like Rolex, Patek, Omega, FPJ.

And of course, Zenith's new Defy Lab type movements that were already being sold as production level watches, and in customer's hands, have now been scrubbed off the face of the earth, because they realized they haven't tuned it properly beyond a showcase / prototype.

Promotions, promises, sales, hype made; then failed to deliver.

While all of this isn't NEWS to me, it was still a sobering reminder to have reasonable expectations and understanding when watch brands, big or small, experienced or new, have some issues and growing pains. Ming, SE, and even big brands like Rolex and Patek are not able to guarantee flawlessness.

... It just sucks that my first Ming purchase is affected :[


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I believe Massena had already spoken to customers and decided to waive the $100 shipping fee before those posts were made. @WwD and @whats_shakin can confirm if this is true, since they both had been in contact with Massena prior to the s**tstorm regarding theirs.


I can confirm this, Mr Massena never ever mentioned anything about cost for me as a buyer. He told me they were going to send me a shipping label which they did and then it got sent to Switzerland.
I hope the watch is doing well on its retreat 😁


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## fchen (Jun 12, 2021)

I ordered the watch the last minute and the delivery date is next May. I hope by that time they would have figured out what is wrong and fix it.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

PuYang said:


> Also, I just checked their instagram, and some of the comments there are pretty.... negative. Looks like Ming is being dumped on by a lot of people right now.


Scanning through the comments there and elsewhere, my impression is that there's a small number of actual aggrieved customers or would-be customers (e.g. people who tried and failed to buy a watch in the past) who pop up in every thread making negative comments, and then a vast majority of negative comments from people who have no experience with the brand and are just jumping on the brigade for one reason or another, including a whole mob of horologicaldicktionary fans who mindlessly commented some variant of "your watch sucks" "your qc sucks" "please blacklist me for this comment" etc etc.

People who like the brand and have positive experiences and have nothing to complain about (like me and many others) end up getting drowned out, because we're either wary of engaging the mob or just exhausted from trying to reason with them. I've tried in the past and realized that you just aren't going to change anyone's mind in an IG comments section. Not only is it exhausting, but it's sort of futile, anyway - people love bad news and negativity and are more than willing to reshare it far and wide, but nobody cares about the good experiences. And it costs no emotional energy to leave a negative comment as a troll, but it costs a lot of it for someone to intelligently rebuke/debunk that comment. And that calculus means that at some point it just isn't worth it to try. So I held off on weighing in, as did many others I talked to.

Unfortunately, that also means that when someone stumbles upon the brand's recent IG activity, the overwhelming impression is one of negativity. But oh well - just keep in mind that it's not a representative sample.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

TecTonic said:


> Just out of curiosity, how could Horomariobro be making money from his personal IG account? I don't actually see his posts partnering with any brand or actively promoting anything.


I can't speak for Horomariobro as I don't know what he's gotten or hopes to get out of his account, but I agree with the others that trying to monetize it in pure $ terms is almost certainly not worth the trouble. You can make a few hundred bucks here and there making sponsored posts or getting sent free straps (hell, as soon as I hit 3-4k followers on IG the free strap offers started rolling in). But that's really not that interesting, and I doubt that that's what HMB is after.

Being able to draw attention to something, however, certainly is valuable - even if you're not a narcissist, and even if you're not consciously seeking it out, there's real value in having a large IG platform in terms of the connections you make and the doors that it opens - whether it's friends, watchmakers, other industry folk, other prominent collectors (who are useful to know because many of the most desirable pieces change hands within a small circle), etc. The value you might derive from those connections is obviously highly variable and dependent on your own personal goals, but I wouldn't say just because there's no direct $ to be made out of something, that there's nothing to be gained (again, not speaking for HMB and his motivations here, just generally).

Edit: as an aside, this is a pretty small niche we're in. Sure, 20k isn't a lot of followers if you're looking at celeb IGs or fashion/lifestyle influencers or whatever, but it's definitely up there for a pure watch account. HMB is certainly quite well known and influential by this point - enough that whenever he (or horological dicktionary, who also has ~20k followers) make a big deal about something, it feels like it's _everywhere_ on IG, assuming you mostly follow watch people.

Yes, there are brands/publications with more followers, but their engagement rates tend to be much lower. And there are plenty of folks who have like 50k followers and but get like, 200 likes per post, in which case it's obvious that their audience is either mostly inactive or they bought a good chunk of their followers. You can't judge reach/influence by follower count alone.


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## fchen (Jun 12, 2021)

yskhyr said:


> Scanning through the comments there and elsewhere, my impression is that there's a small number of actual aggrieved customers or would-be customers (e.g. people who tried and failed to buy a watch in the past) who pop up in every thread making negative comments, and then a vast majority of negative comments from people who have no experience with the brand and are just jumping on the brigade for one reason or another, including a whole mob of horologicaldicktionary fans who mindlessly commented some variant of "your watch sucks" "your qc sucks" "please blacklist me for this comment" etc etc.
> 
> People who like the brand and have positive experiences and have nothing to complain about (like me and many others) end up getting drowned out, because we're either wary of engaging the mob or just exhausted from trying to reason with them. I've tried in the past and realized that you just aren't going to change anyone's mind in an IG comments section. Not only is it exhausting, but it's sort of futile, anyway - people love bad news and negativity and are more than willing to reshare it far and wide, but nobody cares about the good experiences. And it costs no emotional energy to leave a negative comment as a troll, but it costs a lot of it for someone to intelligently rebuke/debunk that comment. And that calculus means that at some point it just isn't worth it to try. So I held off on weighing in, as did many others I talked to.
> 
> Unfortunately, that also means that when someone stumbles upon the brand's recent IG activity, the overwhelming impression is one of negativity. But oh well - just keep in mind that it's not a representative sample.


I feel majority of those commenters need to get a job.


----------



## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> I believe Massena had already spoken to customers and decided to waive the $100 shipping fee before those posts were made. @WwD and @whats_shakin can confirm if this is true, since they both had been in contact with Massena prior to the s**tstorm regarding theirs.


I was never told there would be any cost to me. Initial discussion (verbal) was around me trouble-shooting more. After doing so I was told (email) I would be given a return label and instructions to package the watch once the factory staff was back to accept it. Which has since happened. Only cost was my time driving to FedEx.


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

Any of you in Batch 1 get any communication on delivery time updates from Ming given the recent events?

Looking back at the fratello article, they noted deliveries would start for batch 1 in July, but we haven’t heard anything from any batch 1 folks about deliveries or delays.


----------



## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

Baramats said:


> I can confirm this, Mr Massena never ever mentioned anything about cost for me as a buyer. He told me they were going to send me a shipping label which they did and then it got sent to Switzerland.
> I hope the watch is doing well on its retreat 😁


Any updates on when you can expect an update from Ming's Watchmakers?

Maybe a prelim teardown interim report of sort?

I'm hoping for more clarity on the issue and proposed solution, before sending mine back... :O)


----------



## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

nooch_blackhoneycomb said:


> Any updates on when you can expect an update from Ming's Watchmakers?
> 
> Maybe a prelim teardown interim report of sort?
> 
> I'm hoping for more clarity on the issue and proposed solution, before sending mine back... :O)


Sorry no updates yet. I will update if there is any news.


----------



## Gavstar (May 28, 2021)

Ming have told me that they have identified the issue and solution and are in the process of implementing the fix. The identified improvements to the movement will also be applied to all future 17.09s as well to avoid the recurrence of similar issues.
In addition, Ming will also be extending the warranty on all 17.09s by an additional year (for a total of three years) to provide customers further confidence in the watch.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Gavstar said:


> Ming have told me that they have identified the issue and solution and are in the process of implementing the fix. The identified improvements to the movement will also be applied to all future 17.09s as well to avoid the recurrence of similar issues.
> In addition, Ming will also be extending the warranty on all 17.09s by an additional year (for a total of three years) to provide customers further confidence in the watch.


Wow, that's great news! Honestly the best one could hope for in the situation

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Wow, that's great news! Honestly the best one could hope for in the situation
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I really hope they explain what the issue is and don't come up with a "this is too complex for you" line.


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## fchen (Jun 12, 2021)

horolo_gy said:


> I really hope they explain what the issue is and don't come up with a "this is too complex for you" line.


i do not think they will.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> I really hope they explain what the issue is and don't come up with a "this is too complex for you" line.


The watch industry as a whole has never been that transparent, and I wouldn't be surprised if MING didn't go into the details. But I would really appreciate if they did, because I like to believe that a huge fraction of their customer base are people genuinely interested in watches, watchmaking and horology, and the information would be educative and interesting. There will no doubt be a stream of "oh how could they ever let that happen" folks, but at this point I think we can tune them out.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Gavstar said:


> Ming have told me that they have identified the issue and solution and are in the process of implementing the fix. The identified improvements to the movement will also be applied to all future 17.09s as well to avoid the recurrence of similar issues.
> In addition, Ming will also be extending the warranty on all 17.09s by an additional year (for a total of three years) to provide customers further confidence in the watch.


Nice, did they elaborate what it was in the end?


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> The watch industry as a whole has never been that transparent, and I wouldn't be surprised if MING didn't go into the details. But I would really appreciate if they did, because I like to believe that a huge fraction of their customer base are people genuinely interested in watches, watchmaking and horology, and the information would be educative and interesting. There will no doubt be a stream of "oh how could they ever let that happen" folks, but at this point I think we can tune them out.


yeah i'd like to know if it truly ever had anything to do with the GMT hand, or it was more the spring coupling the hour hand like in the video (I think) you posted

Also reputation wise, the Massena model might take a hit (unless they take back all of them and apply the fix?) Kind of like how people keep complaining about the Tudor GMT but to be honest I feel there's no loinger an issue there


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

monsters said:


> Any of you in Batch 1 get any communication on delivery time updates from Ming given the recent events?
> 
> Looking back at the fratello article, they noted deliveries would start for batch 1 in July, but we haven't heard anything from any batch 1 folks about deliveries or delays.


I'm in batch #1. On April 20 I got an email saying the delivery estimate was end of August. So far, no updates or postponements. So I'm still expecting it in the next ten days...


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> I really hope they explain what the issue is and don't come up with a "this is too complex for you" line.


Worst case scenario someone could do a tear down of an "original" (ie. not fixed) and a "repaired" and compare! 
But I agree I think we'll all see this from Ming themselves.


----------



## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> The watch industry as a whole has never been that transparent, and I wouldn't be surprised if MING didn't go into the details. But I would really appreciate if they did, because I like to believe that a huge fraction of their customer base are people genuinely interested in watches, watchmaking and horology, and the information would be educative and interesting. There will no doubt be a stream of "oh how could they ever let that happen" folks, but at this point I think we can tune them out.


I know it is sometimes tempting for some to bash watches especially very popular, hard to get ones. 
But for the sake of trying to get back to the original topic of learning more about the brand we really like and enjoying the experience; I saw you got your hands on Toki (Kurono) which was compared with Ming from time to time here and in other posts. Any plans making a video comparing with your 27.01?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yadel said:


> I know it is sometimes tempting for some to bash watches especially very popular, hard to get ones.
> But for the sake of trying to get back to the original topic of learning more about the brand we really like and enjoying the experience; I saw you got your hands on Toki (Kurono) which was compared with Ming from time to time here and in other posts. Any plans making a video comparing with your 27.01?


I'm doing a short comparison video between the 17.06 and the Toki, since I think that is a more even playing field based on price (17.06 - $1350 and Toki - $1800). And since they're both in a similar realm of colors - copper and coral.


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> I'm doing a short comparison video between the 17.06 and the Toki, since I think that is a more even playing field based on price (17.06 - $1350 and Toki - $1800). And since they're both in a similar realm of colors - copper and coral.


Yes It makes sense to compare the 17.06 and Toki. Mine was maybe for selfish reasons I also pulled the trigger for Toki (waiting for the October delivery,).The finishing on case, hands look very promising in the pics also read some encouraging reviews about the dial color. My 27.01 sits very well on my 7inch wrist but I am not sure about the Toki. I heard, it wears smaller.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yadel said:


> Yes It makes sense to compare the 17.06 and Toki. Mine was maybe for selfish reasons I also pulled the trigger for Toki (waiting for the October delivery,).The finishing on case, hands look very promising in the pics also read some encouraging reviews about the dial color. My 27.01 sits very well on my 7inch wrist but I am not sure about the Toki. I heard, it wears smaller.


The Toki definitely feels smaller to me, even though the 27.01 is a lot sleeker. I'll try and take some comparison shots for you later today. The finishing/quality control on the Toki is exceptional. Much nicer than the last two Chrono Tokyo watches I reviewed.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I just published my review of the 17.06 Copper if anyone is interested:


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I just published my review of the 17.06 Copper if anyone is interested:
> 
> View attachment 16076262


This lume shot is insane!


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

singularityseven said:


> I just published my review of the 17.06 Copper if anyone is interested:


thanks for the video, well done and really nice watch!!


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## Jabs2 (Sep 1, 2020)

Any other members order the Mosaic 20.11? Excited to see that piece in person!


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> The Toki definitely feels smaller to me, even though the 27.01 is a lot sleeker. I'll try and take some comparison shots for you later today. The finishing/quality control on the Toki is exceptional. Much nicer than the last two Chrono Tokyo watches I reviewed.


really glad to hear that its gone up a notch vs the older Chrono Tokyos, I wondering how about Toki vs Mori....


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Jabs2 said:


> Any other members order the Mosaic 20.11? Excited to see that piece in person!


I did - Can't wait! I am hoping the size is okay - it's a little on the thick side, but I think they hide it well with the shape of the case elements and the DLC mid case.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jabs2 (Sep 1, 2020)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I did - Can't wait! I am hoping the size is okay - it's a little on the thick side, but I think they hide it well with the shape of the case elements and the DLC mid case.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed the thickness was my only concern not having seen the watch in person.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Jabs2 said:


> Any other members order the Mosaic 20.11?


An entrant in the 2021 GPHG. There's a Chaykin too 😉








Grand Prix d’Horlogerie de Genève


#gphg12530 Discover The Competing Watches 12530




www.gphg.org


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Just got this email from MING:

_
Dear friends,

This e-mail is to share what we know is an eagerly awaited update on the status of your 17.09 Burgundy order - thank you in advance for your patience.

In light of issues discovered in the early 17.09 Massena LAB watches, we have developed two improvements to rectify operation. Firstly, the retaining spring for the hour gear, and secondly, the cam and jumper spring profile for the independent hour setting mechanism. These improvements require new, upgraded movement components and will be applied to all 17.09s going forward.

Unfortunately, it means we have to ask for your understanding for a delay in delivery of your 17.09. We have placed expedited and priority component orders with our suppliers, and expect to ship your watch by end-October/early-November.

Once again, we apologise for the delay but we also wish to thoroughly test the changes. We wish you the same confidence in our products, and therefore will also be extending the warranty on all 17.09s for an additional year from the date of delivery, for a total of three years.

As a further apology for the delay, we would like to send you a complimentary strap of your choice - a coupon code for this will be included with your watch.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch. We appreciate your patience and will be in contact to confirm your shipping address as soon as your watch is ready.

- Team MING _


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## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> Just got this email from MING:
> 
> _
> Dear friends,
> ...


Thanks for this update. Your 17.09 was due at the end of August ?

Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Yeah, due end of August initially...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Thanks for sharing the note about the 17.09!

For anyone that's interested - I got around to publishing my video comparison of the MING 17.06 Copper and the Kurono Tokyo Toki:


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

You've gone all in on pink(ish). Great combo.


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## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> Yeah, due end of August initially...


Shoot...means 2022 for the October deliveries 

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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Maybe they'll be able to get them all sorted out at the same time and ship them all by the end of the year...


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## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

conrad227 said:


> Just got this email from MING:
> 
> _Dear friends,
> 
> ...


Guess this means it's about time to send mine in for the "upgrade"...


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

nooch_blackhoneycomb said:


> Guess this means it's about time to send mine in for the "upgrade"...


I dunno if you are okay wearing the watch for another month or two as is you might want to wait. Seems they already have plenty of watches to tinker with at this point.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> Maybe they'll be able to get them all sorted out at the same time and ship them all by the end of the year...


yeah especially if the limitation is the movements


singularityseven said:


> Thanks for sharing the note about the 17.09!
> 
> For anyone that's interested - I got around to publishing my video comparison of the MING 17.06 Copper and the Kurono Tokyo Toki:


nice, any more comments on comparison in terms of the finsihing? or beside the shade, which dial has more light play etc.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> Just got this email from MING:
> 
> _Dear friends,
> 
> ...


Nice you get a free strap. I'm in a later batch and didn't get an email so I assume they can probably maintain the timing on the later batches...


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## Grégoire (Apr 30, 2008)

guillelle said:


> Man, I don't really know where to start&#8230; if you think he got his collection from Instagram advertising money I think that's the end of the discussion. We're talking FP Journe, MB&F, De Bethune, Gronefeld, Voutilainen&#8230;
> 
> And he wasn't forcing anyone to like anything. He got a watch with an issue, and he posted about it, the same as he does with 6-figures watches.


Also, it should be noted that prior to posting about the Ming issue, he posted some very critical shots of poor finishing on an FP Journe hand set. Comments on that were ones of disappointment and disbelief, but there was no backlash of histrionics from fanboys questioning his motivation for highlighting a surprising QC issue.

So it's not as if he has a particular axe to grind against Ming, if there are issues with watches that he purchases, he mentions them to his followers. He's a collector and a reviewer, not a PR operative for any brand.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Grégoire said:


> Also, it should be noted that prior to posting about the Ming issue, he posted some very critical shots of poor finishing on an FP Journe hand set. Comments on that were ones of disappointment and disbelief, but there was no backlash of histrionics from fanboys questioning his motivation for highlighting a surprising QC issue.
> 
> So it's not as if he has a particular axe to grind against Ming, if there are issues with watches that he purchases, he mentions them to his followers. He's a collector and a reviewer, not a PR operative for any brand.


None of that is an issue; a misaligned hand is a misaligned hand. It was the childish sounding-off that attracted the criticism. I don't care how many watches he's got; he'll get brickbats chucked at him for acting like a brat.


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## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

One-Seventy said:


> None of that is an issue; a misaligned hand is a misaligned hand. It was the childish sounding-off that attracted the criticism. I don't care how many watches he's got; he'll get brickbats chucked at him for acting like a brat.


Perhaps the response from MING triggered the ''Childish sounding-off'' behaviour as you would call it.


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## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

Can we just move on please 

Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

conrad227 said:


> Just got this email from MING:
> 
> _Dear friends,
> 
> ...


Today I received a similar update email regarding my Massena 17.09 I sent back for repair. No notable differences, aside from they estimate my watch to be repaired by end of October (versus suggesting an early November date). Also noted a free strap code will be included with my repaired watch when I get it.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I recommend everybody that gets a free strap code to use it on a rubber strap. #fanboy


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

TecTonic said:


> Perhaps the response from MING triggered the ''Childish sounding-off'' behaviour as you would call it.


"triggered"... You're spot on.


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## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

Jabs2 said:


> Any other members order the Mosaic 20.11? Excited to see that piece in person!


I did


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Grégoire said:


> Also, it should be noted that prior to posting about the Ming issue, he posted some very critical shots of poor finishing on an FP Journe hand set. Comments on that were ones of disappointment and disbelief, but there was no backlash of histrionics from fanboys questioning his motivation for highlighting a surprising QC issue.
> 
> So it's not as if he has a particular axe to grind against Ming, if there are issues with watches that he purchases, he mentions them to his followers. He's a collector and a reviewer, not a PR operative for any brand.


Ming offered to fix it, and he didn't send it back, he flipped it (apparently). that's more where the questioning of his motivation came from.

No one said he had a particular axe to grind against Ming. Seems like you're building up a point just to tear it down yourself.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Just stop it with the horomariobro thing please. Move on already. This is a Ming thread, not horomariobro thread.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> Just got this email from MING:
> 
> _Dear friends,
> 
> ...


? I wonder if this is only for people with august dates. My original date was October which I assume is delayed as well but no email. Maybe once it gets closer to the time.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> I wonder if this is only for people with august dates. My original date was October which I assume is delayed as well but no email. Maybe once it gets closer to the time.


Same here. October and no email. Perhaps they'll be able to get parts by then and only expect first few batches to be impacted?


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> Same here. October and no email. Perhaps they'll be able to get parts by then and only expect first few batches to be impacted?


Tbh, I almost wish mine was delayed a bit so I could get one of those sweet rubber straps @singularityseven raves about.


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## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

Would be unfair first batch gets a free strap but not the others...

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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Faceless Man said:


> Would be unfair first batch gets a free strap but not the others...
> 
> Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


I don't think it's unfair if they keep the initial time commitment. I think they're only offering the strap due to their inability to meet the promised delivery date. So if they keep yours, why would they owe anything?


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## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

Because we all want a free strap 

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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I’d love more details / photos of the rubber strap. What makes it so great / better than alternatives? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I'd love more details / photos of the rubber strap. What makes it so great / better than alternatives?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah... For example is this better than the Universal Bracelet? (I'm wishful a topup is possible for the upgrade.. )


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

Faceless Man said:


> Would be unfair first batch gets a free strap but not the others...
> 
> Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


A bit unrealistic I think, especially if the later batches aren't as impacted by a delay - the straps are made by Jean Rousseau in France and 1) are not cheap and 2) are not made in huge quantities. Giving an extra free strap to everyone who ordered a 17.09 would be a few hundred thousand $...


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

nooch_blackhoneycomb said:


> Yeah... For example is this better than the Universal Bracelet? (I'm wishful a topup is possible for the upgrade.. )


It's hard to see in photos - it's mostly the quality/feel on wrist. It's just very supple and comfortable and premium-feeling. Plus, I like that it looks like a "normal" strap but it's waterproof like any other rubber strap. That said, I really like the universal bracelet as well - it gives the watch quite a different personality than the rubber straps, so it's hard to directly compare.


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## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

conrad227 said:


> I dunno if you are okay wearing the watch for another month or two as is you might want to wait. Seems they already have plenty of watches to tinker with at this point.


I'm not wearing the Watch much these days, since I'm Working-From-Home for most part of the week.

I did ask Ming when they expect to receive the required components, to start the repair and validation phase.

Probably a good time to ship the Watch back when these components have arrived...


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

yskhyr said:


> It's hard to see in photos - it's mostly the quality/feel on wrist. It's just very supple and comfortable and premium-feeling. Plus, I like that it looks like a "normal" strap but it's waterproof like any other rubber strap. That said, I really like the universal bracelet as well - it gives the watch quite a different personality than the rubber straps, so it's hard to directly compare.


Agree, I didn't even realize it was rubber when I received my 27.02. I would pick it over a leather strap for how versatile it is. I also got the universal bracelet and it comes down to whether you are a strap or bracelet kind of WIS.


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## fchen (Jun 12, 2021)

yskhyr said:


> It's hard to see in photos - it's mostly the quality/feel on wrist. It's just very supple and comfortable and premium-feeling. Plus, I like that it looks like a "normal" strap but it's waterproof like any other rubber strap. That said, I really like the universal bracelet as well - it gives the watch quite a different personality than the rubber straps, so it's hard to directly compare.


stop there. you are making me want it more. lol


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

fchen said:


> stop there. you are making me want it more. lol


Yeah good thing I have burgundy coming which doesn't seem to match with any of the rubber colors


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Just got the delay email saying my October date is pushed to November or December.


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## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> Just got the delay email saying my October date is pushed to November or December.


Got it too. Unfortunately no extra strap for us despite the order being delayed anyway.

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## X-va (Sep 27, 2017)

Faceless Man said:


> Got it too. Unfortunately no extra strap for us despite the order being delayed anyway.
> 
> Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


Mine is pushed to November too, but I did receive the offer for the complimentary strap. Perhaps because I am part of the initial existing owner 'priority batch' that was supposed to be shipped starting Aug, so mine has a longer delay.


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

I wonder what this means for 20.11s and other watches they had coming


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

X-va said:


> Mine is pushed to November too, but I did receive the offer for the complimentary strap. Perhaps because I am part of the initial existing owner 'priority batch' that was supposed to be shipped starting Aug, so mine has a longer delay.


Hmmm I was also supposed to get it in October and will get it in November. I don't understand their rationale for who gets one and who doesn't...


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

dgoldwatch said:


> I wonder what this means for 20.11s and other watches they had coming


Still on schedule. I got an email today confirming it's in the middle of the originally quoted order window. Still gonna be a while though. It's a long wait!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## David76 (Dec 24, 2015)

I ask about complimentary strap and receiving answer that..

All 17.09 customers, whose delivery is delayed will receive a coupon code for a free strap with their watch. Hope that clarifies!


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

seokpyo said:


> I ask about complimentary strap and receiving answer that..
> 
> All 17.09 customers, whose delivery is delayed will receive a coupon code for a free strap with their watch. Hope that clarifies!


then i hope mine is delayed too hahha, its already next year, doesn't make a diff to me a few months difference


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

seokpyo said:


> I ask about complimentary strap and receiving answer that..
> 
> All 17.09 customers, whose delivery is delayed will receive a coupon code for a free strap with their watch. Hope that clarifies!


I wonder if "shipped by end of November/Early December against original estimate of end-October" counts as a delay. Didn't get the free strap part in my delay email


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I wonder if "shipped by end of November/Early December against original estimate of end-October" counts as a delay. Didn't get the free strap part in my delay email


It does. I asked them.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> It does. I asked them.


That's good, are you October delayed to November too?


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> That's good, are you October delayed to November too?


Yes


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

I wonder if it works for the bracelet as well. I was eyeing that one since the stock straps are too short for me. My 17.09 I requested to have a long strap.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I wonder if "shipped by end of November/Early December against original estimate of end-October" counts as a delay. Didn't get the free strap part in my delay email


I didn't even get a delay email  heheh guess last batch doesn't count since they only took half our money


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

Just got an e-mail about the movement upgrade and warranty extension

But no delay against original estimate apparently (I'm in the 2022 batch)


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## fchen (Jun 12, 2021)

disco_nug said:


> Just got an e-mail about the movement upgrade and warranty extension
> 
> But no delay against original estimate apparently (I'm in the 2022 batch)


same here. the delivery will be on schedule, by the end of May 2022.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I will tell you, I cannot wait for this watch. Just re-read the Fratello review and omg the photos are really nice


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

First 27.02 listed on Chrono24 at... $16k.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

conrad227 said:


> First 27.02 listed on Chrono24 at... $16k.


Yup. Neatly ties in with the thread on "in house". If the brand is right, investors will forgive anything (if they were even planning to use the product as a watch in the fırst place).

My only question: why not twenty? That surplus deserves to be hoovered up!


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I will tell you, I cannot wait for this watch. Just re-read the Fratello review and omg the photos are really nice
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


If you don't "win the lottery", how much will you pay to the dealer to get what you need?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

One-Seventy said:


> If you don't "win the lottery", how much will you pay to the dealer to get what you need?


I believe he's referring to a 17.09, which wasn't a lottery and a timed window release, that most likely sold 2000-3000 units.


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Yes referring to the 17.09 - should have clarified!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Matt Van Buren (Oct 12, 2020)

AnonPi said:


> That diver is perfection. Too bad they apparently won't be making any more of them.


Pretty cool watch!


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

A short comparison of the 27.01 and the 17.06 copper! Also included a clip of both on bracelet for those asking earlier in this thread!


----------



## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> A short comparison of the 27.01 and the 17.06 copper! Also included a clip of both on bracelet for those asking earlier in this thread!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These watches look very good on the bracelet. Great content, thanks!


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I got together with two other MING owners this weekend, and got to check out the absolutely incredible 19.02 World Timer, and the infamous 17.09 Honey.














































The 19.02 made me giddy with excitement, and made me really appreciate the 19 series case design. Brilliant stuff.

The 17.09 was awesome too, and put me at ease regarding the 17.09 blue that I have on order.


----------



## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

Ming didnt use Kuala Lumpur for the World Timer?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Pongster said:


> Ming didnt use Kuala Lumpur for the World Timer?


I believe they did - KUL is between BKK and TOK.


----------



## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

Pongster said:


> Ming didnt use Kuala Lumpur for the World Timer?


They did, per this 'dink article.








Hands-On: The Ming 19.02 Worldtimer


A new movement and new complication make this the brand's most sophisticated watch yet.




www.hodinkee.com







singularityseven said:


> I believe they did - KUL is between BKK and TOK.


Looks like an 'S' though - not a 'K' ? No?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Nevermind, you're both right. Perhaps this was a customization, since it also says "Singapore" on the case-back. I didn't notice this when I saw it in person, but its cool.


----------



## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

dgoldwatch said:


> They did, per this 'dink article.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup. Saw what i thought was an S. i assumed SIN.


----------



## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

Saw Mr Wonderful raving about that dial.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Pongster said:


> Saw Mr Wonderful raving about that dial.


Mr Wonderful is always trying to sell something, so I didn't give him too much credence. But after seeing it in person, it was all true and then some. I loved it, and wish I had pulled the trigger on one when it was just sitting on the website being available for a few weeks.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I got together with two other MING owners this weekend, and got to check out the absolutely incredible 19.02 World Timer, and the infamous 17.09 Honey.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That 19 does indeed look great, but actually the honey one is meh to me.
somehow I still feel that crossover just put too much incoherence into the design, the mainstream 17.09 looking like a winner


----------



## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Have any of the 17.09 owners heard back from Ming on the repair? I wonder if they're still on track to deliver the first blue/burgundy this fall...


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I received an email about a month ago letting me know that my 17.09 which was originally supposed to deliver in October, was moved to late November - early December. So about a 6 week bump. Nothing new which I assume means that that timing is still the most accurate


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I received an email about a month ago letting me know that my 17.09 which was originally supposed to deliver in October, was moved to late November - early December. So about a 6 week bump. Nothing new which I assume means that that timing is still the most accurate


Did u get a free strap?🤣


----------



## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I received an email about a month ago letting me know that my 17.09 which was originally supposed to deliver in October, was moved to late November - early December. So about a 6 week bump. Nothing new which I assume means that that timing is still the most accurate


I was hoping that some of the folks that sent their 17.09 around a month ago had heard back from Ming on the status of the repair, to understand if their original estimation of 6 weeks delay is still accurate.

I got a similar email that said that instead of November they'll ship in December. Funnily enough, their original email said they'd ship in late October...



golffoxtrot said:


> Did u get a free strap?🤣


No strap for me, despite the delay. Maybe it's because the Ming folks read this post and I'm on the ****list now


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

guillelle said:


> I was hoping that some of the folks that sent their 17.09 around a month ago had heard back from Ming on the status of the repair, to understand if their original estimation of 6 weeks delay is still accurate.
> 
> I got a similar email that said that instead of November they'll ship in December. Funnily enough, their original email said they'd ship in late October...
> 
> ...


I reached out to them and they said everyone who was delayed will get one.


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Honestly I’m just happy that I’m getting an issue free movement. The 6 weeks is tough for my insatiable desire for new hotness now, but it’s not too bad in the grand scheme of things. I’d rather have it done right than done quick


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

The 17.09 MxM should be back in early november. Then I just need to wait again for the new version of the bracelet to become available early 2022. A lot of waiting opportunities with this brand 

Is MING just the word WAIT turned upside down?


----------



## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

Baramats said:


> Then I just need to wait again for the new version of the bracelet to become available early 2022.


What new version ? 

Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

Faceless Man said:


> What new version ?
> 
> Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


The Universal bracelet is listed as Sold Out and are to be replaced with a new revised version early 2022.


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## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

Thanks good to know  Can't wait to see the result 

Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Baramats said:


> The Universal bracelet is listed as Sold Out and are to be replaced with a new revised version early 2022.


Have they said what they're modifying?


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> Have they said what they're modifying?


Oooo yeah would be interested but don't think the existing is a good match for .09


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Yeah I'm in


MrBlahBlah said:


> Honestly I’m just happy that I’m getting an issue free movement. The 6 weeks is trough for my insatiable desire for new hotness now, but it’s not too bad in the grand scheme of things. I’d rather have it done right than done quick
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah

I'm in late batches for the .09 and also for the Toki... And my birthday just passed. So I couldn't help it I saw the night diver just launched so I impulse purchased one haha


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Baramats said:


> The Universal bracelet is listed as Sold Out and are to be replaced with a new revised version early 2022.


Interesting, I wonder what they're changing?


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Interesting, I wonder what they're changing?


 my bet is that they have a new sports watch coming out that they will introduce along with the new bracelet, and you will be able to buy the bracelet separately. same as the last bracelet release they had.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Not totally MING related, but I just got the Dietrich SD1 prototype to review, and I've always loved his design style. And putting it next to my 17.06 makes it look like a meeting of two alien beings 😂


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

The first batch of the 17.09s should be shipping soon - has anyone received one?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> The first batch of the 17.09s should be shipping soon - has anyone received one?


Yup, loads on the grey already. $16k for the beige one with a misaligned hour hand (still pointing at the hour when it's ten minutes past). Lol.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

MrBlahBlah said:


> The first batch of the 17.09s should be shipping soon - has anyone received one?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


if you are talking about the blue and red ones sold by Ming directly: I'm in the first batch but I haven't been contacted by Ming yet that my shipment is ready to go out.

C


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

conrad227 said:


> if you are talking about the blue and red ones sold by Ming directly: I'm in the first batch but I haven't been contacted by Ming yet that my shipment is ready to go out.
> 
> C


Yep - I should have been more clear - I was indeed referring to the ones that Ming sold directly (the blue and the burgundy versions). 

Keep us posted!


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

guillelle said:


> Have any of the 17.09 owners heard back from Ming on the repair? I wonder if they're still on track to deliver the first blue/burgundy this fall...


I received an email from Ming this morning, stating that my watch upgrades are installed and they are done with their checks on it and asking me to confirm my shipping details for the return. They estimate shipping the watch out in 3-5 business days so that would align with the original repair estimate of shipping it back at the end of October.

They've indicated there will be an updated instruction manual for the watch (I'm not clear if that's print or digital; it sounds like with the tracking information so I assume digital) and reiterating that I'll receive a strap coupon code.


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

Same here, good news!


----------



## nooch_blackhoneycomb (Aug 5, 2021)

Baramats said:


> Same here, good news!


Me too. Guess though I sent mine in a few weeks later than some, the whole batch are being upgraded & tested at around the same time...


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

Imagine the new prices on Chrono24 on working pieces


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I just listened to a podcast "The Firth Wrist Radio" that had Ming co-founder Magnus Bosse on as a guest. At 1:50 he gives some detail on what happened to the 17.09s and what did they do to fix them. He also comments on much of the drama surrounding the launch and subsequent responses. Thought the community would appreciate the added detail. Podcast link: ‎Fifth Wrist Radio: Independent Thinking - Magnus Bosse (MING Watches co-founder) on independent watchmaking on Apple Podcasts


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## SunnyBoy (Aug 2, 2021)

My Ming x Massena Lab (black) is on it's way back to me. I also got a coupon for a free strap, so just ordered a black rubber strap to go for a stealth look. 

I know there's been a lot of options on how Ming have handled this, especially MT's response to a dude on IG. However, here's my take. I got in touch with Ming as soon as I received my watch as I noticed the problems after 3 hours of use and this was before people had taken to social media to "cry wolf".

Within an hour of contacting Ming and Massena I received an apology, and a message that a waybill will be sent to enable a repair under warranty. At no point did they dismiss my concern or tell me to pay for my own shipping. Since then they have been in touch regularly and it has been a great customer experience. 

Yes, I was disappointed my watch wasn't working perfectly on arrival, but I can safely say I have no concerns about their customer service. It can't be easy to deal with a sh*tstorm on social media with everyone wanting an opinion, but I base my experiences on how a business deals with me directly rather than what they say on social media - we still don't live in a metaverse (irrespective of what facebook is hoping). 

I guess haters are gonna hate, and some people see it as an opportunity to further their own profile. But in reality, customer service were dealing with the issue ahead of the gripes on social media. Maybe the offer of a free strap is a direct consequence of people complaining publicly, but I don't think it really moved the dial. I simply wanted my watch fixed and professional courtesy, which is what I got. 

I was extremely lucky to be chosen in the raffle and I love the look of the watch. I'm not someone who gets excited about movements - this is all about the external design - so it looks like the movement has been improved, has an extra year's warranty and I also got a free strap. So, all is good with me!!! 

Below is the message from Ming re. the repair:

Dear connoisseur,

Thank you for your patience while we upgraded the movement on your MING x Massena LAB 17.09!

With these upgrades in place, we wanted to share an updated instruction sheet for your watch.

The 17.09 is equipped with a self-winding (automatic) Sellita SW330.M1, modified for MING by
Schwarz-Etienne. The movement will run for approximately 40 hours when fully wound. If the
power reserve is depleted, we recommend giving it 12-15 turns of the crown and a light shake to start the balance.

The crown has three positions:
First position (pushed all the way in) = winding

Second position (one click out) = independent setting of hour hand, in one direction; the watch continues running.
Turn the crown crisply and precisely to ensure the hour hand jumps a full hour increment. After
setting, back wind the crown a turn to fully disengage the setting mechanism. Please note that it is normal for the minute hand to ‘catch up’ a little with the hour hand.

Third position (two clicks out) = setting of both hour and minute hands together; running is paused

You can also find an instructional video for the 17.09 by clicking here or scanning the QR code below.

Should the watch need cleaning, a damp soft cloth will do the trick. We do not recommend use of abrasive cleaning agents or polishing cloths.

Should you have any feedback, concerns, issues, or suggestions –
we’re always reachable at [email protected]


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## Cheymao (Jul 31, 2021)

SunnyBoy said:


> My Ming x Massena Lab (black) is on it's way back to me. I also got a coupon for a free strap, so just ordered a black rubber strap to go for a stealth look.
> 
> I know there's been a lot of options on how Ming have handled this, especially MT's response to a dude on IG. However, here's my take. I got in touch with Ming as soon as I received my watch as I noticed the problems after 3 hours of use and this was before people had taken to social media to "cry wolf".
> 
> ...


I'm in the same boat as you and completely agree with everything you said! Now if I could just figure out which strap to pick...


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

SunnyBoy said:


> My Ming x Massena Lab (black) is on it's way back to me. I also got a coupon for a free strap, so just ordered a black rubber strap to go for a stealth look.
> 
> I know there's been a lot of options on how Ming have handled this, especially MT's response to a dude on IG. However, here's my take. I got in touch with Ming as soon as I received my watch as I noticed the problems after 3 hours of use and this was before people had taken to social media to "cry wolf".
> 
> ...


Same here, I also jumped on a black rubber strap as I think a black strap or the bracelet looks best on this watch.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Since we're talking straps, I recently discovered that Formex's curved straps + adjustable clasps fit very well on MING watches (tested on my 27.01 and 17.06 Copper):


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

So... Is this the new universal bracelet?  kidding of course! Saw it on YouTube by Design Atelier. But wouldn't that be something?!


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

horolo_gy said:


> So... Is this the new universal bracelet?  kidding of course! Saw it on YouTube by Design Atelier. But wouldn't that be something?!


Ha. As someone who has both the czapek and the ming incoming, I think I prefer the originals


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> So... Is this the new universal bracelet?  kidding of course! Saw it on YouTube by Design Atelier. But wouldn't that be something?!


That's an interesting experiment, but my biggest draw to MING is the unique case design that goes with their unique dials. If MING did an integrated steel watch, I think it would have to look unlike anything that has come before it.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> That's an interesting experiment, but my biggest draw to MING is the unique case design that goes with their unique dials. If MING did an integrated steel watch, I think it would have to look unlike anything that has come before it.


Oh 100%! I meant that a universal bracelet with that kind of design would look cool in the current 17.09; more so than the current design they have.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

horolo_gy said:


> So... Is this the new universal bracelet?  kidding of course! Saw it on YouTube by Design Atelier. But wouldn't that be something?!


Oooo I love this…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Do we know who makes Ming dials? I just watched the HSNY lecture by Joshua Shapiro on guilloche/engine turning and now I'm wondering who makes the Ming dials. Given that Ming is mass produced, this must be CNC guilloche on the 17.09 simulating a rose engine dial but I'd still like to know more about the dials if possible!


----------



## AnonPi (Aug 19, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Since we're talking straps, I recently discovered that Formex's curved straps + adjustable clasps fit very well on MING watches (tested on my 27.01 and 17.06 Copper):
> 
> View attachment 16208658
> 
> ...


Not wild about the grey strap, but the black strap looks great, matches the inner dial.


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

Got my MING x Massena 17.09 back from repair today. Hour hand kept proper positioning in all my tests with both jumping the hour hand and manually setting the minutes/hours. The latter was where I easily manifested the problem originally but it holds true now.


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## Agreen (Jun 26, 2012)

Congrats! I'm getting ready to send mine in. Forgive me if this has been posted already, but do we know what the actual fix they're doing is?



WwD said:


> Got my MING x Massena 17.09 back from repair today. Hour hand kept proper positioning in all my tests with both jumping the hour hand and manually setting the minutes/hours. The latter was where I easily manifested the problem originally but it holds true now.
> 
> View attachment 16214797


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Agreen said:


> Congrats! I'm getting ready to send mine in. Forgive me if this has been posted already, but do we know what the actual fix they're doing is?


They replace two parts with newly designed ones. Hear at 1 hour 50 minutes at ‎Fifth Wrist Radio: Independent Thinking - Magnus Bosse (MING Watches co-founder) on independent watchmaking on Apple Podcasts


----------



## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

Agreen said:


> Congrats! I'm getting ready to send mine in. Forgive me if this has been posted already, but do we know what the actual fix they're doing is?


Their email to me stated two improvements were made that required upgraded movement components:
1) The retaining spring for the hour gear
2) The cam and jumper spring profile for the independent hour setting mechanism


----------



## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Auction insanity...

Ming x Massena LAB Honey watch just hammered at 18,000 francs.


----------



## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

gangrel said:


> Auction insanity...
> 
> Ming x Massena LAB Honey watch just hammered at 18,000 francs.


Whatttttttttttt ?!?!!


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

gangrel said:


> Auction insanity...
> 
> Ming x Massena LAB Honey watch just hammered at 18,000 francs.


Not saying I don't believe you, but I'm going to need a link for that


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

yeah at least share a screencap or something


----------



## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Here you go…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

And to put thing in perspective….








Ming fetched higher price than Batgirl‍


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

gangrel said:


> Auction insanity...
> 
> Ming x Massena LAB Honey watch just hammered at 18,000 francs.


Link to the auction? Oh nevermind  That was one of ten DLC coated watches with honey dial.

Look at my black on a black strap, better than the original strap imho.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Baramats said:


> Link to the auction? Oh nevermind  That was one of ten DLC coated watches with honey dial.
> 
> Look at my black on a black strap, better than the original strap imho.
> View attachment 16220391


Great combo but the fact that you can see the spring bars on the side would drive me nuts. Sorry!


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Baramats said:


> Link to the auction? Oh nevermind  That was one of ten DLC coated watches with honey dial.
> 
> Look at my black on a black strap, better than the original strap imho.
> View attachment 16220391


I wish it was grey like that. Wowzers!


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

jasonmatthew said:


> Here you go…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


wow, honestly find that DLC and honey doesn't go well at all


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> wow, honestly find that DLC and honey doesn't go well at all


I think that photograph makes it look particularly bad.

I think it looks fantastic here:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CVOSEvslAH-/


----------



## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Chrono24 has a few of the honeycomb dials, including the non-DLC honey color. They're up there...one's $16K. But this hammered at 18K euros, which is a touch under $21K. And then tack on the buyer's premium, so the buyer's shelling out close to $25K.


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## Baramats (Dec 22, 2019)

christianj said:


> Great combo but the fact that you can see the spring bars on the side would drive me nuts. Sorry!


I think that it would be possible to get a better fit if I wanted. I just put the strap on for that photo and the gap happened to be perfectly visible 😅


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Woohoo, my blue ming is ready for shipping.


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## Faceless Man (Sep 23, 2019)

dpap said:


> Woohoo, my blue ming is ready for shipping.


Great news what was your initial delivery date ? 

Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Faceless Man said:


> Great news what was your initial delivery date ?
> 
> Envoyé de mon POCO F2 Pro en utilisant Tapatalk


I think I was in the first batch. I forgot, maybe August?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

dpap said:


> I think I was in the first batch. I forgot, maybe August?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 cool yeah i was in the first batch, too (burgundy dial). the original delivery date was end of august but then they pushed it back to end of october/early november. 

hopefully i get an email next week...


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I think that photograph makes it look particularly bad.
> 
> I think it looks fantastic here:
> 
> ...


I get your point that the photo is not a particuarly good one, however even with the inst post, i still don't think this is a combo that goes. Honestly I thought I liked the honey one, but I really do feel the massena collab much weaker than the mainstream one designwise


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> I get your point that the photo is not a particuarly good one, however even with the inst post, i still don't think this is a combo that goes. Honestly I thought I liked the honey one, but I really do feel the massena collab much weaker than the mainstream one designwise


I wasn't blown away by the Massena collab initially, but I spent a full day with one yesterday and had my 17.06 next to it. I love all the subtle differences between the two, and the honey color and honeycomb pattern is actually quite amazing in person. It has made me even more impatient regarding receiving my 17.09.


----------



## Agreen (Jun 26, 2012)

horolo_gy said:


> They replace two parts with newly designed ones. Hear at 1 hour 50 minutes at ‎Fifth Wrist Radio: Independent Thinking - Magnus Bosse (MING Watches co-founder) on independent watchmaking on Apple Podcasts


Thank you! Gonna check it out.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

New journal post from Ming detailing the process behind the Mosaic - https://ming.watch/blogs/journal/design-brief-ch-1-mosaic-redux


----------



## Agreen (Jun 26, 2012)

WwD said:


> Their email to me stated two improvements were made that required upgraded movement components:
> 1) The retaining spring for the hour gear
> 2) The cam and jumper spring profile for the independent hour setting mechanism


Thanks! Appreciate the info!


----------



## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

jasonmatthew said:


> Here you go…


Any disgruntled MING x Massena hand misalignment owners want to sell me one at 30% over MSRP?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Finally get to see some 17.09s in the "wild":


__
http://instagr.am/p/CWFq6hZhNvX/

And one of the earliest appearances of the elusive Burgundy:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CWFZUUwBW3k/


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Finally get to see some 17.09s in the "wild":
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Funny how someone as well known as Ken gets the one of the first 17.09 available... Coincidence, no doubt. 

Regardless, such a stunning watch. That dial and colour are excellent. But I still think the minute hand should have been a bit longer.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Funny how someone as well known as Ken gets the one of the first 17.09 available... Coincidence, no doubt.


To be fair, Ken is in Singapore and close enough to their point of shipping (Malaysia). I think a few others in Asia have gotten theirs too, and I know someone on the first batch who is getting theirs in the US next week. These are all orders that were taken from the first batch of existing customers!


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Yeah after seeing ken’s photo I’m very glad I picked up a blue one. Hopefully my late Nov/dec delivery date estimate is real.


----------



## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

jmariorebelo said:


> Funny how someone as well known as Ken gets the one of the first 17.09 available... Coincidence, no doubt.


If you're implying that they're playing favorites with delugs, I can tell you for a fact that that's not true. He's an existing customer who ordered in the first batch.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Great to see these shipping even though I have a long wait ahead of me. Really happy I went with the blue dial based on these first pics.


----------



## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

Both blue and burgundy colors look better than the renders to me. Beautiful!


----------



## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

That burgundy does indeed look surprisingly good! Much more 'mature' look to it.

I also agree to the post above, the minute hand should have been a tiny bit longer. I never noticed how similar it was to the hour hand until he mentioned that xD


----------



## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Is it just me, or does the gray one still have misaligned hands? If you compare the hours for both, the blue is just past 10, which is correct for the minute hand placement. But the gray one is even farther past in minutes, but the hour hand looks behind the blue's. Or did Ken not get his Massena fixed?


__
http://instagr.am/p/CWHVt2orwmH/


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Starting to really like the Burgundy...


__
http://instagr.am/p/CWICSf6h0BF/


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> Starting to really like the Burgundy...
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CWICSf6h0BF/


This is the first pic in which the rounded bottom of the minute hand has not aligned up perfectly inside the indented round base of the hour hand (like in the 10 after 10 time pics) and I have to say it looks a bit odd.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

christianj said:


> This is the first pic in which the rounded bottom of the minute hand has not aligned up perfectly inside the indented round base of the hour hand (like in the 10 after 10 time pics) and I have to say it looks a bit odd.


Yep, when the angle between the hour and minute hand is less than 45 degrees it looks weird. Hadn't thought about that before.


----------



## SISL (Jan 6, 2018)

There's a pair offered in the upcoming Phillips NY auction, lot 51.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Only half MING related, but I did a comparison of my 17.06 Copper and the Dietrich SD1 prototype while I had it:


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I can see why Ming made the decision they did with the minute hand - it would look a little messy if it overlapped _under_ the hour markers which are printed on the crystal. As it is, the hour hand is within the center guilloche and the minute hand extends beyond that. They are quite close in length, but the shapes are a little different, almost making the minute hand appear longer than it is.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I can see why Ming made the decision they did with the minute hand - it would look a little messy if it overlapped _under_ the hour markers which are printed on the crystal. As it is, the hour hand is within the center guilloche and the minute hand extends beyond that. They are quite close in length, but the shapes are a little different, almost making the minute hand appear longer than it is.


Yeah, I also think it might look more pronounced in photographs. I spent a full day with the 17.09 Honey and didn't notice any issues with legibility or confusing hand dimensions.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Anyone else noticed on IG that at least one of the people that has gotten their new 17.09. Burgundy has reported that their watch has a hand alignment issue? Hope it is just this persons watch because if the “fix” wasn’t a fix there are going to be a lot of upset buyers out there. 🤞


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> Anyone else noticed on IG that at least one of the people that has gotten their new 17.09. Burgundy has reported that their watch has a hand alignment issue? Hope it is just this persons watch because if the “fix” wasn’t a fix there are going to be a lot of upset buyers out there. 🤞


I noticed that one too. I'm keeping my eyes peeled. The rest look ok 🧐


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

christianj said:


> Anyone else noticed on IG that at least one of the people that has gotten their new 17.09. Burgundy has reported that their watch has a hand alignment issue? Hope it is just this persons watch because if the “fix” wasn’t a fix there are going to be a lot of upset buyers out there.


Could you please share a link?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> Could you please share a link?




__
http://instagr.am/p/CWQd-EBraTS/



> *nywatchfan:*@stuckontime Ming just emailed me saying they're going to swap my watch for a new one


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

This is the only instance I've seen, and they're sending him a new watch. Things happen, that's why you have a warranty


----------



## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CWQd-EBraTS/


Thank you! That sucks


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

MrBlahBlah said:


> This is the only instance I've seen, and they're sending him a new watch. Things happen, that's why you have a warranty


Yep, a few of my friends have gotten theirs already and no issues so far. I'm not concerned. I'm excited to get mine!


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Got mine and wore it for a day. So far so good! Will post some pictures soon.


----------



## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Magenta has arrived. Blue next week


----------



## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)




----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

New release!










We hope you're staying warm and enjoying the winter! We bring a bit of a surprise to the end of the year: the MING 37.05.

37.05 debuts a new case family and will also be the first MING with a date function - in addition to the primary complication and another surprise or two. It remains lumious, inversive and a very wearable 38mm in diameter and is priced at *CHF 4,950 with a 50% deposit required to confirm orders*. Deliveries begin July 2022.

Full details and images of the watch will be released on 24 November 2021 at 1PM GMT, _one day ahead of orders opening_.

A total of 500 watches will be made and sold in two batches. The first batch of 150 watches is on 25 November 2021 and for *existing customers only.* Access information will be emailed directly to existing customers who have purchased a watch directly from us. Please note that accessories and secondary market watch purchases do not qualify. 

The balance of 350 watches is open to everybody on *26 November 2021 at 1pm GMT, or*

5AM in San Francisco
8AM in New York
1PM in London
2PM in Geneva
5PM in Dubai
9PM in Kuala Lumpur
10PM in Tokyo
12AM, +1 day in Melbourne
Based on extended feedback, we are also trying a new e-commerce system that now allows for cart holds. While we developed this over the last year and subjected it to extensive testing, this launch is the first time it will be used in volume. More details on this system can be found here.

A few, final and cordial reminders:

Watches are only available at www.ming.watch on a first come, first serve basis.
There is a limit of one watch per customer.
We will email everybody on the respective lists but we have limited control over servers and syncing and cannot guarantee emails will arrive exactly on time.
At this time, we accept payments via VISA and MasterCard only.
Payment approvals and automated fraud checks are conducted by the issuing bank and not under our control. To avoid hiccups during checkout: 
We recommend informing your bank about the transaction in advance. Payments are captured in Malaysia, the currency for the payment is Swiss Francs (CHF) and the entity is 'Horologer MING'.
We *do not* recommend the use of the 'AutoFill' feature on your browser for the credit card information. We recommend inputting the actual card number, expiry date and security code manually. 

As always and if you have any additional questions, we remain at your disposal at [email protected].


----------



## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> New release!


I have to admit that this email made me chuckle. As someone still waiting for their 17.09 (burgundy), and now to be on the list as an existing owner amused me. I guess it makes sense that they have to start the sales process early while they're still delivering the last batch of watches, but still.

The other thing that amused me with this was the fact that you only get the full details one day in advance of purchase. The marketing hype machine is strong with Ming! 

Anywho, looking forward to my 17.09 and hope this new one looks awesome too!


----------



## SISL (Jan 6, 2018)

I like the no-date better already...


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Got my 17.09 last week and I absolutely love it. This thing is worth every penny and then some (to me).


----------



## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

So confused about the 17.09 isn’t it supposed to ship next year yet some already got it ????

MING 17.09 Burgundy
Delivery by end-March 2022: 2017-3663 to 2017-4233
Delivery by end-April 2022: 2017-4235 to 2017-5188
Delivery by end-May 2022: 2017-5191 onwards


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

manofrolex said:


> So confused about the 17.09 isn’t it supposed to ship next year yet some already got it ????
> 
> MING 17.09 Burgundy
> Delivery by end-March 2022: 2017-3663 to 2017-4233
> ...


That was for the unlimited timed release. There were 2 batches for 1. existing owners, and 2. a limited release of 150(?) a few days prior to the timed release


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

manofrolex said:


> So confused about the 17.09 isn’t it supposed to ship next year yet some already got it ????
> 
> MING 17.09 Burgundy
> Delivery by end-March 2022: 2017-3663 to 2017-4233
> ...


I got my order in during the first batch of a few pieces for "existing owners".


----------



## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

monsters said:


> That was for the unlimited timed release. There were 2 batches for 1. existing owners, and 2. a limited release of 150(?) a few days prior to the timed release


K thanks


----------



## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

singularityseven said:


> Got my 17.09 last week and I absolutely love it. This thing is worth every penny and then some (to me).
> 
> View attachment 16253759
> 
> ...


Great photos! Cool to see the group together. If you had to choose between the 27.01 and the 17.09 which would you choose?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

brianinCA said:


> Great photos! Cool to see the group together. If you had to choose between the 27.01 and the 17.09 which would you choose?


That's a very tough one. I love the 27.01 for the hollowed case sides & lugs, the beautiful movement and the overall sleek and minimalist design. I like the 17.09 for all the "MING" design elements - amazing textures, shadow play, lume and bold design. I don't think I could pick between the two.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Anyone else also get this email? 


Dear friends, 

You are receiving this email as you registered for SPC [Special Projects Cave] notifications, which means the Cave is about to open and disgorge our latest Special Project!

The MING 20.01 Series 2 - will launch on *24 November 2021 at 1PM GMT*, or

5AM in San Francisco
8AM in New York
1PM in London
2PM in Geneva
5PM in Dubai
9PM in Kuala Lumpur
10PM in Tokyo
12AM, +1 day in Melbourne
There will be fifty (50) watches available with priority access given to those on the SPC list. Once all watches are sold, the 20.01 Series 2 will be _discontinued and not produced again_. You can register your interest to order starting 24 November 2021, 1PM GMT onwards.

For all orders:

The 20.01 Series 2 will only be available at www.ming.watch and priced at CHF 35,000
*A 50% non-refundable deposit of CHF 17,500* is payable at the time of order, with the balance due only when the watch is ready to ship
Payments will be accepted via international bank wire, VISA or MasterCard only
Deliveries will begin August 2022 and continue through the rest of the year
There is a limit of one watch for each customer
The full reveal will be on Wednesday, but we can tell you this much for now - it features a *new mosaic dial in sapphire, gradient guilloche, a lot of luminous material, and a unique configuration of the AgenGraphe movement* (a variant of which was originally seen on the 20.01 S1 Concept, and since further improved.)

As always and if you have any additional questions, we remain at your disposal at [email protected].

- Team MING


----------



## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

So the 20.01 series 2 will be a combo of

20.01 case & dial









+ 27.02 Gradient guilloche









+Agenhor


----------



## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

37.05









2021 MING 37.05 Moonphase


Description A little romantic whimsy A moon-phase is an old complication, and perhaps one of the least useful for modern life, yet one that still holds a special place in the hearts of collectors for reasons we’re not quite sure of ourselves, despite owning several. A date is at least a bit more...




ming.watch


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

dpap said:


> 37.05
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wish they hadn't put both the moon and a date......just the moon would have been great in my opinion (but then of course lower where the date is). Stuffing both the moon and the date window at the 6 location is too much in my opinion.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

christianj said:


> I wish they hadn't put both the moon and a date......just the moon would have been great in my opinion (but then of course lower where the date is). Stuffing both the moon and the date window at the 6 location is too much in my opinion.
> 
> View attachment 16257501


I wish they didn't put any of them tbh. This would be great as a continuation of the 27 series.

Certainly wasn't expecting a variation of the handwound SW210, but it looks incredible. This must be one of the first manual winding moonphase watches in the entry level scene.

Edit: one more point, the vertical blue/black gradient is interesting but not sure I'm a fan


----------



## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

^ there is this one but it hasn’t gotten much love. I actually am kind of tempted 









AVERAU 39 Fasi Lunari | Automatico Swiss Made | echo/neutra


La collezione AVERAU 39 Fasi Lunari è la nostra moderna reinterpretazione di una classica complicazione orologiera. Swiss Made.




echoneutra.com


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

The 37.05 is nice, but not enough to push me over the edge since I have a 17.09 coming, which I personally think is their best design to date.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

dpap said:


> ^ there is this one but it hasn’t gotten much love. I actually am kind of tempted
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's automatic, there are loads of those


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I love the dial. I'm not passionate about date windows in general, but I'll take it if I have to. Love the moonphase disc and the new "tongue" element at 12 o'clock.


----------



## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> This must be one of the first manual winding moonphase watches in the entry level scene.


I guess there's a reason for that. I keep all my moon phase autos in winders, which means that I never have to adjust the moon indicator.

With the 37.05, unless you are really disciplined winding the watch often, there's a good chance that when you pick up the watch you'll need to set the time, date and moon... That seems like a little bit too much for me.

It's a gorgeous watch with a beautifully finished movement, and at a very reasonable price, but I still struggle to understand some these horological decisions by Ming (like the jumping hour hand for a watch with no seconds display in the 17.09).


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Not sure why but when I saw the dial texture and moon I thought of this Carl Suchy:


----------



## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

guillelle said:


> I keep all my moon phase autos in winders, which means that I never have to adjust the moon indicator.
> 
> With the 37.05, unless you are really disciplined winding the watch often, there's a good chance that when you pick up the watch you'll need to set the time, date and moon... That seems like a little bit too much for me.


I haven't figured out how to adjust any of my moonphases or PCs 😂

I agree, the date does detract from the zen-ness of the overall design. Nonetheless I appreciate the attention they pay to their movements - never imagined I'd be wow'ed by a Sellita movement!


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> the new "tongue" element at 12 o'clock.


Probably my favourite part of the dial, just looks better than the circle


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

One more note, great to see another brand finally using ochs und junior's loop-less buckle design.


----------



## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

I believe Ming Thien had a prior business/design relationship with O&J ?


----------



## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

guillelle said:


> I guess there's a reason for that. I keep all my moon phase autos in winders, which means that I never have to adjust the moon indicator.
> 
> With the 37.05, unless you are really disciplined winding the watch often, there's a good chance that when you pick up the watch you'll need to set the time, date and moon... That seems like a little bit too much for me.
> 
> It's a gorgeous watch with a beautifully finished movement, and at a very reasonable price, but I still struggle to understand some these horological decisions by Ming (like the jumping hour hand for a watch with no seconds display in the 17.09).


I really want a Ming watch, and have been eagerly watching every release for the last couple of years, but I always find something like this that doesn't quite make sense..... a handwind moonphase seems like it would be really annoying, particularly with only a 38hr power reserve....

Smaller point, but I don't see the point of a domed rear crystal either, doesn't it just add unnecessary thickness?

I do like the dial on this one though, and as Ming says "The 37-series case family will form one of our core product lines, spanning from entry level to Special Projects and everything in between.", perhaps the next watch will be the one for me....


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

zztopops said:


> I believe Ming Thien had a prior business/design relationship with O&J ?


You might be referring to this









Design Your Own Watch? A Collector Explains The Pros And Cons With Ochs Und Junior - Quill & Pad


I am a passionate watch enthusiast and have been for years, as well as a watch collector (as far as my budget allows). I have experienced the joy of getting a watch precisely to my liking in a simple, reductionist philosophy with a comparatively pedestrian movement – but including a very...




quillandpad.com


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Sorry to detract from the conversation, but I just did a short (2 minute) clip of my 17.09. I don't plan on doing a review, so I tried to include as much footage as I could for folks waiting for theirs.


----------



## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

jmariorebelo said:


> You might be referring to this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah yes, thanks for the reminder. You can see the early evolution of Ming's design language in that custom O&J.


----------



## teckel12 (Oct 22, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> One more note, great to see another brand finally using ochs und junior's loop-less buckle design.


That buckle would be a hard no for me. I need to wear my watches tight or the watch will spin around on my wrist. I also typically have a lot of extra strap due to my small wrists. Stuffing 2.5 inches of strap between my wrist and strap would be annoying and I've got to imagine uncomfortable.

As for the Ming 37.05, I was hoping for something different. The date window seems just wrong. Maybe if the window was a circle instead of a rectangle? Just looks out of place as-is.

And a moon phase with a manual wind movement? What a PITA! So I need to set the date, moon phase and time every time I wear it as I can't keep it on a winder? Winders have 2 uses: Perpetual/annual calendars and moon phase complications.

And the rest of the watch? Meh! Maybe if the date window didn't exist and the moon phase was lower it would look better. The case is nice, as is the movement with display back. But the dial really doesn't do it for me.


----------



## watchobs (Jun 13, 2011)

singularityseven said:


> Sorry to detract from the conversation, but I just did a short (2 minute) clip of my 17.09. I don't plan on doing a review, so I tried to include as much footage as I could for folks waiting for theirs.


Being one of those that will be waiting for this exact piece coming in Spring 2022, I'm much appreciative of your extremely well done visual expose, thanks!


----------



## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Special Project 20.01 Series 2. Very nice!


















The tachy/telemeter scale tightens the package vs the 20.11. Love the contrasting blue and orange hands.

20.11 and 20.01 for comparison


----------



## GeoffNA (Oct 26, 2019)

The 27.02 is my favorite Ming, but I love what they've done with the 37.05.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

guillelle said:


> I guess there's a reason for that. I keep all my moon phase autos in winders, which means that I never have to adjust the moon indicator.
> 
> With the 37.05, unless you are really disciplined winding the watch often, there's a good chance that when you pick up the watch you'll need to set the time, date and moon... That seems like a little bit too much for me.
> 
> It's a gorgeous watch with a beautifully finished movement, and at a very reasonable price, but I still struggle to understand some these horological decisions by Ming (like the jumping hour hand for a watch with no seconds display in the 17.09).


yeah agree with you on this one that it is way too many things to set for a manual. i don't even like to set day/date.

Don't know if the price is "reasonable" though, it seems on the pricey side for a selitta, but then again makes the 17.09 feel like a great deal with a neat little trick (jumping hour)


----------



## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

golffoxtrot said:


> Don't know if the price is "reasonable" though, it seems on the pricey side for a selitta, but then again makes the 17.09 feel like a great deal with a neat little trick (jumping hour)


But this isn't a Sellita any more, not meaningfully. Not when it's been fully skeletonized and finished so elaborately. This _is_ effectively a custom-made movement...can't call it "in house" because that work wasn't done by Ming per se.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

gangrel said:


> But this isn't a Sellita any more, not meaningfully. Not when it's been fully skeletonized and finished so elaborately. This _is_ effectively a custom-made movement...can't call it "in house" because that work wasn't done by Ming per se.


Yeah it is as much a Sellita as this is an ETA 7001. And having looked at a good amount of 7001s, this is hardly a 7001 too.










I thought the same when the 27.01 released and sat that one out, but eventually regretted it and bought one on the secondary market.


----------



## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

^ yes same happened to me. But after seeing the 20.01, it makes me want to start saving for it…


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

dpap said:


> ^ yes same happened to me. But after seeing the 20.01, it makes me want to start saving for it…


The 20.01 s2 might be my favorite MING they've released so far, SPC stuff included.


----------



## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> The 20.01 s2 might be my favorite MING they've released so far, SPC stuff included.


I am really really fighting the urge to do it


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

dpap said:


> I am really really fighting the urge to do it


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Is it just me or this release is received rather coldly on this thread? Was much more lively when 17.09 was announced...


----------



## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

singularityseven said:


>


What do you think the market price for a 7-year old is these days? Asking for a friend.


----------



## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Is it just me or this release is received rather coldly on this thread? Was much more lively when 17.09 was announced...


Probably a combination of the higher price point of this release and the fact that many of us are still waiting for 17.09's to be delivered.


----------



## broc2747 (Jun 14, 2021)

Recently became interested in these. Although probably a "risky" investment when it comes to watches, I think there's a decent probability that these can rise in value quite a bit over the coming years


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

broc2747 said:


> Recently became interested in these. Although probably a "risky" investment when it comes to watches, I think there's a decent probability that these can rise in value quite a bit over the coming years


Before the whole forum attacks you for using the term investment, I think different MING watches have had varying degrees of success on the pre-owned market. Some have done fantastic, like the World Timer 19.02 trading at $10-15k over retail on a $11k watch, whereas some others like the 27.01 have been 1-2k over retail on a good day recently. For the most part, the market will dictate where these go, but if you're looking to buy a watch and not take a (big) hit on secondary, MING watches have done a good job of staying relevant enough to keep the market's interest piqued even years after release.


----------



## broc2747 (Jun 14, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> Before the whole forum attacks you for using the term investment, I think different MING watches have had varying degrees of success on the pre-owned market. Some have done fantastic, like the World Timer 19.02 trading at $10-15k over retail on a $11k watch, whereas some others like the 27.01 have been 1-2k over retail on a good day recently. For the most part, the market will dictate where these go, but if you're looking to buy a watch and not take a (big) hit on secondary, MING watches have done a good job of staying relevant enough to keep the market's interest piqued even years after release.


Sorry if speaking of investments would offend anybody, I am new to the forum and did not know that people would frown upon those types of comments here! Treating timepieces as alternative assets is what got me into the luxury watch world initially, I think I've gotten to a point where I consider investment potential for almost any purchase I make...may be a sickness at this point lol.

That's nice to hear though, cool to see that there is a continued demand to this degree for a newer brand. Thanks for the detailed response, gives me a few models to study up on! Cheers


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

broc2747 said:


> Sorry if speaking of investments would offend anybody, I am new to the forum and did not know that people would frown upon those types of comments here! Treating timepieces as alternative assets is what got me into the luxury watch world initially, I think I've gotten to a point where I consider investment potential for almost any purchase I make...may be a sickness at this point lol.
> 
> That's nice to hear though, cool to see that there is a continued demand to this degree for a newer brand. Thanks for the detailed response, gives me a few models to study up on! Cheers


The more money I pour into this hobby, the more perceptive I've become about value stability, pricing and the economics of it all. So I don't find it offensive at all, and knowing the market before making any kind of purchase is always a smart decision. Good luck on your MING hunt!


----------



## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> Before the whole forum attacks you for using the term investment, I think different MING watches have had varying degrees of success on the pre-owned market. Some have done fantastic, like the World Timer 19.02 trading at $10-15k over retail on a $11k watch, whereas some others like the 27.01 have been 1-2k over retail on a good day recently.


It took them 2 years to sellout their first flagship 19.01. I remember all the rabid comments for the perceived significant unjustified upcharge (CHF7k) over their first watch. Didn’t help that most people had never heard of Schwartz Etienne either at that time.

Now the more expensive watches are gone within a couple days and minutes for the ‘budget’ models. 😂


----------



## NardinNut (Sep 22, 2008)

zztopops said:


> Special Project 20.01 Series 2. Very nice!
> 
> View attachment 16257829
> 
> ...


OMG I love this!! Wish I could get one. I think it’s only an exclusive offering


----------



## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

singularityseven said:


>


Done. Let’s see if I get it.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

gangrel said:


> But this isn't a Sellita any more, not meaningfully. Not when it's been fully skeletonized and finished so elaborately. This _is_ effectively a custom-made movement...can't call it "in house" because that work wasn't done by Ming per se.


well its nice work that they did on it for sure, definitely custom modified, but dunno if you can say custom made, which I would expect a ground up design with new operating parameters


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Is it just me or this release is received rather coldly on this thread? Was much more lively when 17.09 was announced...


yes less interest for sure --- unless its gonna be your only watch, this is too much setting, also u could argue that visually also better without the date


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

broc2747 said:


> Sorry if speaking of investments would offend anybody, I am new to the forum and did not know that people would frown upon those types of comments here! Treating timepieces as alternative assets is what got me into the luxury watch world initially, I think I've gotten to a point where I consider investment potential for almost any purchase I make...may be a sickness at this point lol.
> 
> That's nice to hear though, cool to see that there is a continued demand to this degree for a newer brand. Thanks for the detailed response, gives me a few models to study up on! Cheers


I agree with you 100%. I love the other aspects of watches, but I also love hobbies where I know I'm not taking major depreciation hits. And the best way to do that with is with brands that appreciate, like MING.

You're right that certain people frown upon it but my opinion is that its a free world, many hobbies have value as a factor (baseball cards, coins, stamps, classic cars, guitars etc etc) so no one really has the right to tell you otherwise. To be honest when you factor in everything like insurance or storage cost, servicing and then compare to the market, its hard to clearly say that they are really viable alternative assets, you still sacrifcing some opportunity cost vs real assets probably.

But yeah a few grumpy closed minded people on the forum do think this way, just ignore em basicially


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

golffoxtrot said:


> I agree with you 100%. I love the other aspects of watches, but I also love hobbies where I know I'm not taking major depreciation hits. And the best way to do that with is with brands that appreciate, like MING.
> 
> You're right that certain people frown upon it but my opinion is that its a free world, many hobbies have value as a factor (baseball cards, coins, stamps, classic cars, guitars etc etc) so no one really has the right to tell you otherwise.


Hot new brands risk fizzling out, especially when its on a parabolic rise like MING. Not saying that MING will ... I think there are a lot of recent buyers snatching them up purely for speculation.

Rewind the horological time travel machine back 10 - 15years ago, Panerai was THE darling.... just sayin....

We've been in a upward trajectory for all asset classes for over 10 years now and the past 2-3 years have been in the parabolic phase. Many new participants during this time have never experienced a downturn and are lulled into believing prices will rise forever. Everyone here is an adult (I think) and should be mature enough to make their own decisions. I don't think anyone was lecturing anybody.

Personally I hope more newbies jump in and continue hyping the watch world. Such a glorious large population Gen Y & Zs and so proficient at social media hyping, help fund my retirement. I hope the party never ends 🥳🥳🥳


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Existing customer batch sold out pretty quickly! I’m sure the batch tomorrow will be gone quickly as well.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Its not sold out yet. It’s in people’s carts. I had it in my cart about 6 times as I attempted to make payment. I tried every single card and they were all declined. Perhaps the last one went through, we will see.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

I managed to secure one. First try the card payment failed. Second try it went throught but got an email from Ming saying payment authorised but need to be verified and it can take up to 5 days before confirmation email is sent. Anyone in the same situation?


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

downunder888 said:


> I managed to secure one. First try the card payment failed. Second try it went throught but got an email from Ming saying payment authorised but need to be verified and it can take up to 5 days before confirmation email is sent. Anyone in the same situation?


Yes same. Can I ask which cc workdled for you? The only card I has that typically works for ming failed me twice…


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@dpap and @downunder888 Did you have issues with the phone number entry? I had to try 3 different ways before it took mine. I had no issues with my credit card and it worked the first time.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

christianj said:


> @dpap and @downunder888 Did you have issues with the phone number entry? I had to try 3 different ways before it took mine. I had no issues with my credit card and it worked the first time.


It needed the country code.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

dpap said:


> It needed the country code.


Took me two attempts with that too. Thought I was going to loose out due to a freaking phone number but got it to work after 3rd attempt. As for card, Chase worked for me with no issues…..and it’s definitely sold out now.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

christianj said:


> Took me two attempts with that too. Thought I was going to loose out due to a freaking phone number but got it to work after 3rd attempt.


It needs the + sign in front of the country code

Honestly between the idiotic payment processor, the idiotic safeguards from my cc (it kept dinged even after entering the confirmation code my cc sent to my phone via sms) I am just about done with this. How complicated can it be to collect payment for a frigging watch?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@dpap Some of these things are frustrating but still much simpler than jumping through hoops to buy other watches. In the end 5 minutes invested nets a new toy….after we wait another 9 months for it to arrive. 😁


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

christianj said:


> @dpap Some of these things are frustrating but still much simpler than jumping through hoops to buy other watches. In the end 5 minutes invested nets a new toy….after we wait another 9 months for it to arrive.


Fair enough. I am still on my AD list for a steel rolex and a silver snoopy. I wonder if I can pass my place in the queue to my son if I die before I am allowed to buy them.


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

Definitely picking one up, they look great.


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## Laer81 (Jun 30, 2020)

Just purchased one. Only after receiving the confirmation mail (that need to be confirmed again during next 5 days) I realized that I insert my name incorrectly...
Hope customer service will fix it...


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

Missed on first batch of 37.05 because my card sent an alert to approve, grrrr. Yes I was warned. Their new cart hold system is interesting since it gives you hope that you may get another chance if someone else ahead in line doesn’t complete the transaction in 5 minute. I think I prefer the old way so I’m not repeatedly renewing the link for 10 minutes hoping for another opening.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Any estimate on how quickly this one sold out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

I am the opposite. At least with the card hold, I can put in the details instead of joining the keyboard race war. It worked really well and makes sense. If you join the queue first you should have reasonable time to complete the transaction instead of being queue jumped. 



dpap said:


> Yes same. Can I ask which cc workdled for you? The only card I has that typically works for ming failed me twice…


I used a mastercard which worked for last order. 



christianj said:


> @dpap and @downunder888 Did you have issues with the phone number entry? I had to try 3 different ways before it took mine. I had no issues with my credit card and it worked the first time.


I had no issue with the phone number. 

Just got an email from Ming confirming my order is good now. 10 more months wait lol


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@RetiredKarlMarx Hard to say since they changed the checkout process to give people who had them in their cart a chance to complete transaction. My best guess would be If you didn’t have one in your cart in the first minute or two that you were SOL unless someone else couldn’t complete their transaction and their piece went back into the available batch. I got my confirmation email 2 minutes after 8 and at that time they were all in people’s carts and only available if someone dropped out.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

@dpap so you had to go back to the main page and add it back into your cart several times? hmm... i gave up after not getting one in my cart right at the drop time but maybe if people aren't successfully confirming their transactions i'll stick around a little longer tonight.

I'm not super set on getting this watch but I definitely want to get some practice with this new drop style for future releases.

Congrats to everyone so far who got one and good luck to everyone else on the next round!


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

conrad227 said:


> @dpap so you had to go back to the main page and add it back into your cart several times? hmm... i gave up after not getting one in my cart right at the drop time but maybe if people aren't successfully confirming their transactions i'll stick around a little longer tonight.
> 
> I'm not super set on getting this watch but I definitely want to get some practice with this new drop style for future releases.
> 
> Congrats to everyone so far who got one and good luck to everyone else on the next round!


Oh yeah I ended up having to add it again about 100 times, and 5-10’of these it ended in my card where we played the same game with the card processor. In the end I left it in my cart and then quickly called my bank to approve the transaction in advance and somehow it all happened within 5 mins. So it was pure luck (and persistence).


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

okay i'll definitely try a lot harder tonight. I'm surprised that once it got dropped from you cart you were still able to go back to the main page and add it again (that someone else hadn't scooped it up in the meantime). impressive persistence on your part.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

conrad227 said:


> okay i'll definitely try a lot harder tonight. I'm surprised that once it got dropped from you cart you were still able to go back to the main page and add it again (that someone else hadn't scooped it up in the meantime). impressive persistence on your part.


No most of the time its not available but try enough and you get another chance. I am pretty stubborn


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

zztopops said:


> Hot new brands risk fizzling out, especially when its on a parabolic rise like MING. Not saying that MING will ... I think there are a lot of recent buyers snatching them up purely for speculation.
> 
> Rewind the horological time travel machine back 10 - 15years ago, Panerai was THE darling.... just sayin....
> 
> ...


totally agree with you about the fizzling out risk - but that's part of the game too. The reality is that what you think you like when you get into watches is different from when you start actually wearing them, so for me i'm primarily concerned with short term value.
As I think I mentioned somewhere, as an asset class, I'm not sure its really all that profitable, especially after you factor all costs in, but short term value retention lets you figure out what you really like and also potential fund a hobby for free. (I got a royal oak chrono at retail, which I flipped, the proceeds I use to try different watches). Its a nice feeling


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

Their payment processor really sucks. I had two of my cards declined, then a personal card decline, and then my GFs card decline. I give up lol


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

I got one right at the drop but there are still some available...


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

Got it the second time around. Bank aware of purchase, but still had to refresh probably 30 times until I got in. I take back my critique of the new process as I likely benefited from someone else's CC decline or not figuring out that the phone number needs a country code.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Got it on my third try! My cards were declined twice. But kept at it and got it 8:16am EST. They really need to get their payment system sorted out!


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## Look Up At The Stars (Nov 26, 2021)

I think there's still some available! Got one at the drop and sniped another cart hold while I called the bank to make sure the payment clears. Released into the wild just now!


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Hmmm yeah I have always used the same credit card to buy their watches and this is #4 for me so far so I had no issues with mine.

It's nice that they took only 50% down for the watch. I paid 100% upfront for the 27.02 back in January and still haven't taken delivery. At that time all my other cash was going into buying ETH, could have bought like 2.5ETH for the difference back in January...


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## NardinNut (Sep 22, 2008)

Got one, after hitting refresh 1000 times, having card decline, losing cart, approving transaction, hitting refresh 1000 more times, and then 30 seconds of nerves while transaction spins prior to approval. 

I’m warm on this release. May love it or might hate it once I receive it. Never purchased a Ming before and want to see what all the acclaim is about. But really I want access to the Special Project Cave and the Series 2. I’m madly in love with that release.


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## Laer81 (Jun 30, 2020)

Series 2 looks great. Unfortunately out of budget


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Really surprised about all these credit card issues. What credit cards are you all using if you are US based? I had no issues with a Chase card and it went right through yesterday. There was no text with validation code like I get with Amex for my Kurono purchases.


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## En_Nissen (Oct 10, 2018)

I've followed Ming for quite a while, and generally love their design language (save for the lack of seconds indication).

Their 37.05 is one of the first watches of theirs I've been seriously tempted by. Probably because I love moon phase complications. 
The combination of date and moonphase and a 38 hour manual winder doesn't work for me though.

Hopefully they'll make a automatic version some day. 
If they remove the curve of the case back and reduce WR to 5atm I'm sure they can even do an automatic with the same thickness.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Does anyone know the price of the 20.01 Series 2?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Watchowski (Jun 10, 2012)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Does anyone know the price of the 20.01 Series 2?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


35000 CHF


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

I got the 37.05 order confirmation just now. This would be my 4th MING.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Watchowski said:


> 35000 CHF


Everyone before saying they were going to skip the 37.05 release for the 20.01….then when they realize the price…..😭😭😭


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

christianj said:


> then when they realize the price


 I'm one of them


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

christianj said:


> Really surprised about all these credit card issues


Our peasant buying habits ... 😞


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

Just a quick sharing that for those really want buy MING watch.

The first batch specially for existing customers, is more difficult in successfully getting the watch. Because existing customers are quite experience in placing order and less likely to have hiccups...

I am always waiting for the second batch, as many are new customers and more likely "kicked" out from cart. Although it showed "sold out" in 7 seconds, I continued to click purchase button for another 2 minutes and still can get into cart and place my order.

Please don't give up even though "sold out" appears.


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## timeisofthessence (Oct 23, 2009)

I'm excited to say I had a similar experience and after several failed attempts at purchasing I was able to reserve a 37.05. 

I had called my bank 1 hr before the Ming sale start time to inform them of my purchasing plans, I was assured there would be no issue. unfortunately I was declined at least 3 times between 8am-830am est. I even received a text asking if charge was legit, I responded Yes, but was still declined the next time. 

I then called my bank to specifically ask that they allow the next charge attempt from Ming. after another 10 min of frantically clicking away on the ming site I eventually got a 5th crack at purchasing and it finally went through. 

I'm looking forward to joining the club.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Hey, yeah, my other feedback item is it was helpful to try the owner drop (if you had that option) because then you could just get a little familiarity with how the new system works. I was refreshing the page continuously but then when the link came up I triple clutched trying to click on it (my mouse doesn't function that great also) and by the time I did there were no more watches left in the initial drop. 

The second time I knew exactly where on the web page the link was going to pop up and zoomed in on the link so it was really big and had my thumb hovering over it on my touch screen so as soon as the refresh came in with the link live I tapped on it immediately.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

To anyone that was unsuccessful, I just saw this on the website and thought it might be worth a shot:









2021 MING 37.05 Moonphase


Description A little romantic whimsy A moon-phase is an old complication, and perhaps one of the least useful for modern life, yet one that still holds a special place in the hearts of collectors for reasons we’re not quite sure of ourselves, despite owning several. A date is at least a bit more...




ming.watch


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

singularityseven said:


> To anyone that was unsuccessful, I just saw this on the website and thought it might be worth a shot:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. Check out the waitlist options:


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Icelatte said:


> Interesting. Check out the waitlist options:


What about them? I guess they are missing the 27.02


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## blackbezel (Apr 7, 2021)

Icelatte said:


> Interesting. Check out the waitlist options:


thanks. Just signed up for the 17.09 blue, even if I don't expect to be lucky. After seeing those first photos in the past weeks that popped up here I like it more and more


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

dpap said:


> What about them? I guess they are missing the 27.02


That was the link for the 37.05 waitlist but looks like they are starting waitlists for their other sold-out-but-undelivered watches. I don’t think they’ve openly done this before. The link wasn’t available from the pages of the other watches.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Icelatte said:


> That was the link for the 37.05 waitlist but looks like they are starting waitlists for their other sold-out-but-undelivered watches. I don’t think they’ve openly done this before. The link was available from the pages of the other watches.


Right but at the current markup, I doubt anyone would cancel their order when they can flip it for more


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

dpap said:


> What about them? I guess they are missing the 27.02


I think those four pieces were all deposit pieces. So the watch you might be able to get would be the ones that people would potentially not pay the remaining part of the deposit on their watch, so then they would go up for sale again. Not sure who those people are, but some of the delivery windows are so long maybe someone wouldn't be around to claim their watch any more.

The 27.02 you had to pay for in full (as I mentioned before) so there's no potential for unfulfilled orders.


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## SISL (Jan 6, 2018)

I'm curious, how many series do they have outstanding (i.e., still haven't delivered) by the time they offer a new series up for pre-order? Someone should track that.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Still waiting for my 17.09 from batch 2 but Ming said it should be shipping this week ish.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

jdelage said:


> I'm curious, how many series do they have outstanding (i.e., still haven't delivered) by the time they offer a new series up for pre-order? Someone should track that.


As far as I know they have 17.09, 21.11 and 37.05 this week. 




yellowfury said:


> Still waiting for my 17.09 from batch 2 but Ming said it should be shipping this week ish.


Good for you. Just wondering where are u in term of order number? I am in batch 3, 38xx so probably still gonna be a while.


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## SISL (Jan 6, 2018)

Three series is a lot of backlog...


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@downunder888 38xx was given a March 2022 delivery date so yes….you’ve got a while to go like me. The ones being delivered now are from the first two batches and NOT from the timed release window.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

downunder888 said:


> As far as I know they have 17.09, 21.11 and 37.05 this week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m in the 34xx range


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

blackbezel said:


> thanks. Just signed up for the 17.09 blue, even if I don't expect to be lucky. After seeing those first photos in the past weeks that popped up here I like it more and more


Same. I had one in my cart on the day and didn't pull the trigger, kicking myself now. At least there might be quite a few on the secondary market in 6 months or so and hopefully not at the near double RRP which people are trying to sell them for now

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Has anyone heard anything about their 27.02? I wonder if there are amy delays beyond the december time frame. Also I am surprised to see some selling on c24 already?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

dpap said:


> Also I am surprised to see some selling on c24 already?


Are you really?


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

jmariorebelo said:


> Are you really?


Well I am surprised given the delivery date


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

dpap said:


> Well I am surprised given the delivery date


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

dpap said:


> Has anyone heard anything about their 27.02? I wonder if there are amy delays beyond the december time frame. Also I am surprised to see some selling on c24 already?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


First batch went out in June. Priority/Early Access.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

When they shipped out the 1709 a couple of weeks ago I asked about the progress of the 2702 and they said still on track with anticipated delivery...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Some lume shots of the 17.09:


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## Aditya3012 (Dec 3, 2021)

Still waiting on this early December timeframe for my burgundy! Hoping I get it before the holidays


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Lume quality is shocking. You gotta make a fuss on IG, mate 😂😂


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Some lume shots of the 17.09:


the border of hands look kinda fuzzy?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

@golffoxtrot no more or less than any other painted lume hand I've owned. If you want crisp lines you'll have to go for solid hands that are filled with lume (17.06, 18.01 - but then you'll have some whining about the uneven lume density across the lume filled section) etc. With painted hands you tend to get blurry lines in general.

See the Sinn U50:









Autodromo Group B:









Defakto Kinetik:









So yeah, if you get close enough to any of these hands you're not going to see perfectly straight lines.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> @golffoxtrot no more or less than any other painted lume hand I've owned. If you want crisp lines you'll have to go for solid hands that are filled with lume (17.06, 18.01 - but then you'll have some whining about the uneven lume density across the lume filled section) etc. With painted hands you tend to get blurry lines in general.
> 
> See the Sinn U50:
> View attachment 16275471
> ...


Aren't Ming hands made of hyceram, or whatever they call lume-infused ceramic bits? Like Vertex do with their watches.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

@jmariorebelo nope, I think that's only for certain dial elements - like the inner hour ring on the 18.01. HyCeram and all the other similar technologies now (LumiCast, Globolight, etc) seem to be three dimensional casted elements of ceramicized lume so making slim hands out of them seems like a challenging task.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Here's how Christopher Ward made their GloboLight triangle at the 12 o'clock position of their recent Concept watch:


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> @golffoxtrot no more or less than any other painted lume hand I've owned. If you want crisp lines you'll have to go for solid hands that are filled with lume (17.06, 18.01 - but then you'll have some whining about the uneven lume density across the lume filled section) etc. With painted hands you tend to get blurry lines in general.
> 
> See the Sinn U50:
> 
> ...


icic, I've never had any painted lume actually, except for the classic round blobs on the zenith (which I've never zoomed into the see if they are fuzzy or not).

Its just that on the Ming, when I looked at their official photos, i didn't see this effect (fuzzy hands vs non-fuzzy indexes) and it shows more in your shot. Guess your shot is a higher magnification. For the Sinn is that a normal U50? I was looking at the U50 with the black mother of pearl dial for a while actually but got a TAG night diver instead...


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Got an email from Ming saying my watch scheduled to ship this week is still in Switzerland and is delayed another 2-3 weeks. Not a big deal but I’m sure someone somewhere is freaking out over it.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> icic, I've never had any painted lume actually, except for the classic round blobs on the zenith (which I've never zoomed into the see if they are fuzzy or not).
> 
> Its just that on the Ming, when I looked at their official photos, i didn't see this effect (fuzzy hands vs non-fuzzy indexes) and it shows more in your shot. Guess your shot is a higher magnification. For the Sinn is that a normal U50? I was looking at the U50 with the black mother of pearl dial for a while actually but got a TAG night diver instead...


Yep, it's because of my macro lens and how much I'm zoomed in.

Yeah, this is normal for a Sinn and I noticed the same on my EZM 3F too.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> Got an email from Ming saying my watch scheduled to ship this week is still in Switzerland and is delayed another 2-3 weeks. Not a big deal but I’m sure someone somewhere is freaking out over it.


did u get a free strap?


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

just randomly, just saw a few 17.09s have gone for around 3600 USD (list) on watchcharts. good to see the early "sold at what i paid" people haven't made a dent in the resale


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> did u get a free strap?


honestly no clue. Other posters in this thread have said they got a code for one but I never did. I may ask and see what'll happen but it's not a huge deal.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

I think the burgundy 17.09 is my favorite out of all the 17.xx released so far.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

dpap said:


> I think the burgundy 17.09 is my favorite out of all the 17.xx released so far.


looks great, I'm also looking forward have quite a ways to go though probably spring next year, too bad was totally hoping for a great sweater watch for winter


dpap said:


> I think the burgundy 17.09 is my favorite out of all the 17.xx released so far.


yeah agree (although biased because I have one on order) but I do think its the most "pure+coherent" design of the 17s


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I know I'll get ridiculed for saying this (because of the hand alignment issue with the massena launch), but having owned the 17.01, 17.06 and now 17.09 - the 17.09 is definitely the most "high end" feeling of them all, and that's mostly because of how smooth and amazing the movement feels to operate. The Sellita SW330-1 was already an excellent movement in terms of "feel", but this modified SW330-2 takes it a step further. The 17.09 also feels a bit more substantial on wrist even though they're all quite similar in size, and I think that has something to do with the visual presence of having the indices etched onto the crystal. It just feels like a thicker watch, and maybe some tweaks were made to the case construction to make it just a bit heavier.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I know I'll get ridiculed for saying this (because of the hand alignment issue with the massena launch), but having owned the 17.01, 17.06 and now 17.09 - the 17.09 is definitely the most "high end" feeling of them all, and that's mostly because of how smooth and amazing the movement feels to operate. The Sellita SW330-1 was already an excellent movement in terms of "feel", but this modified SW330-2 takes it a step further. The 17.09 also feels a bit more substantial on wrist even though they're all quite similar in size, and I think that has something to do with the visual presence of having the indices etched onto the crystal. It just feels like a thicker watch, and maybe some tweaks were made to the case construction to make it just a bit heavier.


I love reading that it feels more high end. Does saying it feels more substantial on wrist implies that it might be less comfortable for folks like I with smaller wrists (6.25 in if it helps answer).


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> I love reading that it feels more high end. Does saying it feels more substantial on wrist implies that it might be less comfortable for folks like I with smaller wrists (6.25 in if it helps answer).


No, not at all. The dimensions should work perfectly on a 6.25" wrist, and they're mostly unchanged from the rest of the 17 lineup which are smaller watches in general. I think it's just the weight and percieved height increase that makes it feel a bit more "sturdy" for the lack of a better word.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

My 17.09 delayed 2-3 weeks as well. Annoying but that's not too far off so I can manage


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> My 17.09 delayed 2-3 weeks as well. Annoying but that's not too far off so I can manage


Same here. Except for me that means it will go into next year for sure due to holiday plans, which really sucks.


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> honestly no clue. Other posters in this thread have said they got a code for one but I never did. I may ask and see what'll happen but it's not a huge deal.


I got the code for the free strap after they emailed me to say they were ready to ship my watch and wanted to confirm my shipping details.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Most recent Christie’s auction result for a Ming. 27.01 for $10k









MING, STEEL, REF. 27.01


CIRCA: 2021 CASE MATERIAL: Steel CASE DIAMETER: 38mm DIAL: Black, Grey Outer Track     MOVEMENT: Manual BOX: Yes PAPERS: Yes ACCESSORIES: Steel Ming Tang Buckle, Ming Warranty Certificate, Outer Ming Presentation Box, Ming Canvas Pouch, Inner Ming Presentation Leather Case




onlineonly.christies.com


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

My 17.09 delivery date is in April next year, 37.05 is September next year.

Will I receive a strap foc?


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Latest on the 27.02:
_
I hope this finds you well. You’re receiving this email as you were originally scheduled to have your MING 27.02s ready to ship by the end of this month. 

Unfortunately, we’ve had to reject the batch of dials for these watches during quality control and we are having new dials produced. Due to this, there will be a delay in deliveries. Combined with the break for Christmas and New Year’s, we estimate a total delay of one month - so watches will now be ready to ship by end-January 2022. 

I sincerely apologise for this delay and as a further apology, we would like to send you a complimentary strap of your choice - a coupon code for this will be included with your watch when it ships.

We are working closely with our suppliers and partners to minimise this delay as much as possible, but we do not want to compromise the finish and quality of the final watch. _


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

conrad227 said:


> Latest on the 27.02:
> _
> I hope this finds you well. You’re receiving this email as you were originally scheduled to have your MING 27.02s ready to ship by the end of this month.
> 
> ...


Yeah same here. It is not so bad if it is just one month.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cocas said:


> My 17.09 delivery date is in April next year, 37.05 is September next year.
> 
> Will I receive a strap foc?


My understanding is that only people who saw a delay in deliveries for watches sold BEFORE the 10 minute release time frame are getting the free straps. (I can't remember how many units they sold BEFORE the 10 minute release to current owners in Batch 1 which was to have deliveries begin in July 2021.) So basically anyone that bought during the 10 minute release window or Batch 2 (which had original delivery timeframes starting in March 2022) will not get one.


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## dnodelman (Aug 12, 2020)

I think Ming is super cool but I'd want to handle one before I purchased.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

dnodelman said:


> I think Ming is super cool but I'd want to handle one before I purchased.


Only way you can do that is to find someone that has one and/or go to a watch collector get together where someone happens to have one on. The problem with that is you will get to handle a different (older) watch and not the one you would likely have the chance to buy in the future.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I'm starting to get a little irritated with their business model - having to purchase a watch for delivery in six to nine to twelve months ahead of time, which is then met with delays, all because the company is using your pre ordered funds to float their operations in the mean time, is starting to get frustrating. This wouldn't happen if the watches were already pre-manufactured. 

But then again, I think that would limit the scarcity and overall vibe of the brand. IDK. What do you guys think? 

I have 2 watches on order myself. First, a 17.09 which was supposed to delivered in Oct/Nov 2021, which then got pushed to Nov/Dec 2021, which then got pushed back 2-3 weeks, which will likely not be in my hands until January 2022. The second is a 20.11 which I'm expecting in July 2022 but we'll see. I think this frustration is from me desperately wanting these watches!


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I'm starting to get a little irritated with their business model


It is somewhat annoying but for brands in their infancy or who mainly have their presence online it seems to be the way to go. This way they have funds or partial funds and know exactly how many pieces they need to manufacture and have little to no risk. If the brand is in high demand then you are going to live with this sales model or buy something else. For me the other brands I might potentially buy also have waitlists or are hard to get so what is the difference? I'm going to have to wait regardless but in this case at least I know I am getting a watch and I sort of have an idea of when I'm going to get it. With the other highly desirable brands you have more uncertainty of when you MIGHT get a timepiece but at least you get to keep your money (or most of it) while you wait. Just sadly the sign of the times right now!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> It is somewhat annoying but for brands in their infancy or who mainly have their presence online it seems to be the way to go. This way they have funds or partial funds and know exactly how many pieces they need to manufacture and have little to no risk. If the brand is in high demand then you are going to live with this sales model or buy something else. For me the other brands I might potentially buy also have waitlists or are hard to get so what is the difference? I'm going to have to wait regardless but in this case at least I know I am getting a watch and I sort of have an idea of when I'm going to get it. With the other highly desirable brands you have more uncertainty of when you MIGHT get a timepiece but at least you get to keep your money (or most of it) while you wait. Just sadly the sign of the times right now!


That's pretty much how I feel as well. 

I've learned to detach myself from the wait. These watches arrive when they arrive, and they've almost always surpassed expectation. I'd rather have this process than have to deal with the games ADs play these days for the other watches I'm interested in. And I also enjoy the pricing stability created (probably unintentionally? or intentionally?) by these long waits and discontinued product lines. If I had to wait 10 months for a watch that took a 50% hit in price the moment I opened it, I may be slightly more salty about the wait.


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## WwD (Apr 25, 2021)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I'm starting to get a little irritated with their business model - having to purchase a watch for delivery in six to nine to twelve months ahead of time, which is then met with delays, all because the company is using your pre ordered funds to float their operations in the mean time, is starting to get frustrating. This wouldn't happen if the watches were already pre-manufactured.
> 
> But then again, I think that would limit the scarcity and overall vibe of the brand. IDK. What do you guys think?


Overall, I agree with you. This happens in another hobby of mine and it gets tiresome to see so much of the risk shifted to the customers via their deposits and, when there is success, there are super long waits.

In my opinion, MING has been at this long enough that they should have a pretty good sense of the demand on their watch releases. So if they know they're going to want to make 200-1000 or whatnot of something, I'd rather seem them build them and then sell them. Can still be limited scarcity that way. Don't know if it impacts the vibe much or not.

Or, if that's too scary for them, maybe build the first 100 of whatever run. Then they can say, "Hey, we've got the 122.72 coming out. Here's what it looks like. We're limiting it to 750 pieces however the first 100 are made and ready-to-go. Everyone else who gets in will need to wait [insert however many months here] for theirs to arrive."

Just my thought on a workaround. Maybe I'm wrong but doesn't Stowa build their watches to order? A lot on their website just say 3-4 weeks for delivery so I'm not sure why it has to be so long for MING.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

WwD said:


> Overall, I agree with you. This happens in another hobby of mine and it gets tiresome to see so much of the risk shifted to the customers via their deposits and, when there is success, there are super long waits.
> 
> In my opinion, MING has been at this long enough that they should have a pretty good sense of the demand on their watch releases. So if they know they're going to want to make 200-1000 or whatnot of something, I'd rather seem them build them and then sell them. Can still be limited scarcity that way. Don't know if it impacts the vibe much or not.


I think they're in a brand nirvana for a relatively new company. Not having to mortgage homes to fund the next production, massive marketing budgets to move per-manufactured inventory. Building distribution networks to move inventory. Procuring materials in advance. White knuckle anxiety attacks worrying if their new designs or inventory will sell, net margin uncertainty etc etc.

Additionally I believe there are tremendous environmental benefits in their just-in-time manufacturing model based on pre-orders. No excess inventory etc etc.









Cartier owner destroys more than £400m of watches in two years


Richemont bought back stock from jewellers to stop it being sold at knockdown prices




www.theguardian.com












Chile: Mountains of discarded clothes in the Atacama Desert – DW – 11/18/2021


Every year, some 59,000 tons of used and unsold clothing end up in Chile from all over the world. In the Atacama Desert, entire landscapes are now covered by new and old garments.




www.dw.com





The short pre-sale windows address the urgency of consumer demands. Like it or not, humans are predisposed to want things they can't get. If they allow the sales windows to linger or increase production excessively, I honestly doubt the demand would be as overwhelming. Furthermore I think it also discourages hype driven band-wagon buyers. Unlike food and other necessities, watches are a purely a discretionary purchase. the wait times are not unreasonable.

Some opportunities in their business models to help address the complains -

Shorten production times. (Broader global supply chain and logistical issues aside)
Greater frequency of road shows or showrooms for new consumers to view the product. I had some reservations during their early days but after getting a chance to handle their products in person and speaking to the team, I was a fan.

As consumers, sure it requires a little effort but nothing unreasonable. If you miss a release there's likely going to be another within the next 6 months. On top of that, I don't have to deal with the annoying games with ADs, Grey market, VIP list and all that %$#@ing nonsense I'm sure everyone is intimately familiar with the hot watches du jour. A low-born pleb like me is on a level playing field with a billionaire/influencer/celebrity/industry insider/grey market dealer/speculator - *Halle-Effin-Lujah! *

I think so long as their releases remain compelling and are sufficiently differentiated I believe this model has legs. The guy graduated with a masters’ in theoretical physics from Oxford at 16, I like to believe they are meaningfully tinkering with their business model. Personally I think it's a win-win for all parties so far.



_*Disclaimer: *I do not own any of their watches (yet) _😂. Just an interested party casually observing from the sidelines.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

WwD said:


> Or, if that's too scary for them, maybe build the first 100 of whatever run. Then they can say, "Hey, we've got the 122.72 coming out. Here's what it looks like. We're limiting it to 750 pieces however the first 100 are made and ready-to-go. Everyone else who gets in will need to wait [insert however many months here] for theirs to arrive."


Ming kind of already kind of tries to do this. Look at the 17.09...they released like 150 of the 17.09 early (deliveries were to start in July of 2021) and the remainder from the 10 minute window will start going out in March 2022.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

I can at least forgive the current round of delays due to supply chain issues from the pandemic...not ideal but i understand completely.


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## SISL (Jan 6, 2018)

You all should watch very carefully the time-to-delivery and how it evolves from one series to the next.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

The other part to this is that they are underpricing their watches significantly. Look at the spread between retail and market values. I understand it helps hype the brand, but they could probably increase prices by 50 percent and they would still sell almost as many watches.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

dpap said:


> The other part to this is that they are underpricing their watches significantly. Look at the spread between retail and market values. I understand it helps hype the brand, but they could probably increase prices by 50 percent and they would still sell almost as many watches.


True - I don’t think anyone would argue that they deliver a ton of value at the price point 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

jdelage said:


> You all should watch very carefully the time-to-delivery and how it evolves from one series to the next.


Do you think time-to-delivery will increase or decrease going forward?


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

brianinCA said:


> Do you think time-to-delivery will increase or decrease going forward?


I think the implication is that it may increase


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

WwD said:


> Overall, I agree with you. This happens in another hobby of mine and it gets tiresome to see so much of the risk shifted to the customers via their deposits and, when there is success, there are super long waits.
> 
> In my opinion, MING has been at this long enough that they should have a pretty good sense of the demand on their watch releases. So if they know they're going to want to make 200-1000 or whatnot of something, I'd rather seem them build them and then sell them. Can still be limited scarcity that way. Don't know if it impacts the vibe much or not.
> 
> ...


That's what Kurono did with the Toki - so wait time was significantly less. My guess is Ming doesn't even engage their manufacturing partners prior to making the watch. Coupled with multiple concurrent releases this creates a large bottleneck (which is not unintended). Whether they still "deserve" to do this, given recent success is up to personal interpretation.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

dpap said:


> The other part to this is that they are underpricing their watches significantly. Look at the spread between retail and market values. I understand it helps hype the brand, but they could probably increase prices by 50 percent and they would still sell almost as many watches.





MrBlahBlah said:


> True - I don’t think anyone would argue that they deliver a ton of value at the price point
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think it is as straightforward. One of the reasons why Ming is so high in demand is *BECAUSE *of the spread. We can all confidently buy sight unseen when we know the market price is 50% above retail. If that spread disappears, demand would drop significantly.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I don't think it is as straightforward. One of the reasons why Ming is so high in demand is *BECAUSE *of the spread. We can all confidently buy sight unseen when we know the market price is 50% above retail. If that spread disappears, demand would drop significantly.


Yes but currently demand >> supply hence high secondary market prices. Increasing prices will correct the imbalance and I bet they will still sell all the watches the produce. The main difference is they get to keep the spread rather than gifting it to flippers. I suspect thats their long term plan anyway.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> That's what Kurono did with the Toki - so wait time was significantly less. My guess is Ming doesn't even engage their manufacturing partners prior to making the watch. Coupled with multiple concurrent releases this creates a large bottleneck (which is not unintended). Whether they still "deserve" to do this, given recent success is up to personal interpretation.


I'm not quite sure exactly what you mean by "doesn't even engage their manufacturing partners prior to making the watch," but it's in any case not correct. I was lucky enough to tour Schwarz Etienne and Agenhor last month prior to the new releases - rest assured they are intimately involved in/aware of both current releases and stuff that's in the pipeline, and production capacity/part orders/etc. are planned well in advance of the actual launches, especially when production quantities are known.

I know it's tempting to think that it's like a kickstarter where they just have a design and take your money and figure everything else out afterward, but it's not correct - they may not have actual production pieces made at launch, but there's a significant investment in R&D/prototyping/securing part orders before the public ever knows about a watch. The lag time between order and delivery is assuredly the latter part of the production cycle, not the whole cycle. The reality is simply that it's a long process from A to Z, especially when their watches often require many new/custom parts and processes for each launch, which is exacerbated further by pandemic-related supply chain issues. I can't speak for Kurono, but I imagine it's easier when you're just launching the same model repeatedly with the same parts but different colored dials (and I speak as someone who owns 4 Kuronos, so I don't mean to throw shade - but it's apples and oranges).


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## Buddman (Feb 16, 2014)

My 17.09 now not being dispatched in December (original date was October) due to bad weather in Malaysia. Now slipped to January.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Buddman said:


> My 17.09 now not being dispatched in December (original date was October) due to bad weather in Malaysia. Now slipped to January.


Same here. TBH, it felt like the delivery date would have slipped even without the floods in Malaysia. They just happened this weekend...


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

Buddman said:


> My 17.09 now not being dispatched in December (original date was October) due to bad weather in Malaysia. Now slipped to January.





guillelle said:


> Same here. TBH, it felt like the delivery date would have slipped even without the floods in Malaysia. They just happened this weekend...



I'm part of batch 2, but didn't get any type of notification on further delays. I wonder what's up...


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

monsters said:


> I'm part of batch 2, but didn't get any type of notification on further delays. I wonder what's up...


Same here. No notification from them even though I was originally supposed to get the watch in October...


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## En_Nissen (Oct 10, 2018)

I'm getting a watch (not Ming) that requires curved spring bars.

I really like the way ming leather and rubber straps sit on the watches, they look very nice!
I've already read many good things about the straps in this thread, but does anyone know how thick the straps are?


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> Same here. No notification from them even though I was originally supposed to get the watch in October...


same. I know Ming just received the watches from Switzerland at least. Not the end of the world to have the date slip again. A lot worse can happen.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> same. I know Ming just received the watches from Switzerland at least. Not the end of the world to have the date slip again. A lot worse can happen.


That's going easy on them. Missing the date once... OK. Missing it a second time with radio silence from them is not cool. A strap seems so lame at this point for what is now a 3 month slip.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> That's going easy on them. Missing the date once... OK. Missing it a second time with radio silence from them is not cool. A strap seems so lame at this point for what is now a 3 month slip.


that’s fine. You’re allowed to be unhappy with the service. I’m not happy as well but it’s out of my hands (outside of cancellation which I’m not doing). The company could certainly do a lot better as far as communication goes but that could be said industry-wide.


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## dsm27 (Jun 24, 2013)

En_Nissen said:


> I'm getting a watch (not Ming) that requires curved spring bars.
> 
> I really like the way ming leather and rubber straps sit on the watches, they look very nice!
> I've already read many good things about the straps in this thread, but does anyone know how thick the straps are?


TBH, I find the JR straps incredibly uncomfortable. They are extremely rigid and do not curve round your wrist. Unless you strap them horribly tight they will lift the watch from your wrist. My wrists are fairly average I think, a little under 7”.

Anyone else find this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

dsm27 said:


> TBH, I find the JR straps incredibly uncomfortable. They are extremely rigid and do not curve round your wrist. Unless you strap them horribly tight they will lift the watch from your wrist. My wrists are fairly average I think, a little under 7”.
> 
> Anyone else find this?
> 
> ...


Same. I think they are too long. I also don’t like that they taper to 18mm as opposed to 16mm.

I find the delugs straps much more comfortable


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

dsm27 said:


> TBH, I find the JR straps incredibly uncomfortable. They are extremely rigid and do not curve round your wrist. Unless you strap them horribly tight they will lift the watch from your wrist. My wrists are fairly average I think, a little under 7”.
> 
> Anyone else find this?
> 
> ...


I love their rubber straps, and even the alcantara one I got on the 17.09. They're easily my favorite/go-to strap of choice.

Their leather straps I'm not crazy about but they're good enough for a stock strap. I've got some curved Monstraps, Delugs and now Formex that I also cycle between where leather goes.


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## En_Nissen (Oct 10, 2018)

Thanks for sharing the thoughts on the strap, only heard good things, so nice to get some varied opinions.

I'm considering getting some custom delugs strap, just trying to figure out what thickness I want them in.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

horolo_gy said:


> That's going easy on them. Missing the date once... OK. Missing it a second time with radio silence from them is not cool. A strap seems so lame at this point for what is now a 3 month slip.


What do you think would not be "lame" for the delay? A free watch? They didn't even have to offer the free strap so not really sure what you think is appropriate. I am not a Ming defender but with the issue of mis-aligned hands and overall supply chain issues in virtually every industry, I assume they are likely struggling. Could their communication be better? Of course and silence often is worse than giving someone the bad news right up front.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

christianj said:


> What do you think would not be "lame" for the delay? A free watch? They didn't even have to offer the free strap so not really sure what you think is appropriate. I am not a Ming defender but with the issue of mis-aligned hands and overall supply chain issues in virtually every industry, I assume they are likely struggling. Could their communication be better? Of course and silence often is worse than giving someone the bad news right up front.


I don't think it's really about the strap. You hit it right in the head. Tell us what's going on instead of staying silent.

You have to remember we payed full price, we have a 3 month delay now, and... silence? I don't work customer service so I don't know what would make it right, but this isn't it.

People that payed half price will allegedly start receiving their watches in March. So I don't think this much of a delay is acceptable.

I still like and want the watch. However, the release of this watch has been a true mess.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> I don't think it's really about the strap. You hit it right in the head. Tell us what's going on instead of staying silent.
> 
> You have to remember we payed full price, we have a 3 month delay now, and... silence? I don't work customer service so I don't know what would make it right, but this isn't it.
> 
> ...


Have you tried reaching out to them for an update?


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Have you tried reaching out to them for an update?


Yes. Four days ago. Silence.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

horolo_gy said:


> I don't think it's really about the strap. You hit it right in the head. Tell us what's going on instead of staying silent.
> 
> You have to remember we payed full price, we have a 3 month delay now, and... silence? I don't work customer service so I don't know what would make it right, but this isn't it.
> 
> ...


Honestly I think delays are part of normal procedure. Especially during the pandemic. Also, when you preorder the watch they make it clear these are _estimated_ delivery dates. If you want your money back I am sure they will happy to issue you a full refund.I mean, what else do you want them to do at this point?


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

dpap said:


> Honestly I think delays are part of normal procedure. Especially during the pandemic. Also, when you preorder the watch they make it clear these are _estimated_ delivery dates. If you want your money back I am sure they will happy to issue you a full refund.I mean, what else do you want them to do at this point?


If you read the post you quoted you know I still want the watch and not a refund and what I want is better communication. I'll stop commenting now on this matter since it's clear you're all happy with the delay and I think this has become unproductive.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

dpap said:


> Honestly I think delays are part of normal procedure. Especially during the pandemic. Also, when you preorder the watch they make it clear these are _estimated_ delivery dates. If you want your money back I am sure they will happy to issue you a full refund.I mean, what else do you want them to do at this point?


While I am fine with the delay (really wanted to receive it before Christmas though), I disagree that offering a refund is a substitute for proactive communication. A refund doesn't absolve the brand, given the long lead time. The customer sent the payment over almost a year ago, that's the money they could make use of through this entire year (maybe for another watch). 

What to do at this point? A public announcement on the delay would help. People are understandable if you give them a reason to be so.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> Yes. Four days ago. Silence.


Malaysia had flooding issues a few days ago. Can check out the link below for example:

Flood situation improves in Shah Alam as waters recede; number of evacuees in several states drops
Since Ming and their staff are based in Malaysia, this could have affected their operations and hence their comms as well. Just guessing here though.

With the recent lockdowns and restrictions caused by Omicron, I am sure their supply chain would have been affected as well, impacting deliveries. My deliveries are scheduled for next year so I am not affected (at least not yet though any backlog will likely impact the delivery of my watches).


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Raindrops said:


> Malaysia had flooding issues a few days ago. Can check out the link below for example:
> 
> Flood situation improves in Shah Alam as waters recede; number of evacuees in several states drops
> Since Ming and their staff are based in Malaysia, this could have affected their operations and hence their comms as well. Just guessing here though.
> ...


Very true.


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

Mint with box and papers. 

*<Admin Edit>*


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

We now posting sales ads in the master thread?


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

@watches4ever there is a dedicated sub forum for sales, this isn’t the right spot for sale posts


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

MrBlahBlah said:


> @watches4ever there is a dedicated sub forum for sales, this isn’t the right spot for sale posts
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Not a newbie so should know this.


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> @watches4ever there is a dedicated sub forum for sales, this isn’t the right spot for sale posts
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It is not for sale - there was no price mentioned and nowhere did it say FS For Sale etc


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> @watches4ever there is a dedicated sub forum for sales, this isn’t the right spot for sale posts
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk





christianj said:


> Not a newbie so should know this.



It is not for sale - there was no price mentioned and nowhere did it say FS For Sale etc


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## CMSgt Bo (Feb 12, 2006)

watches4ever said:


> It is not for sale - there was no price mentioned and nowhere did it say FS For Sale etc


What was the purpose of mentioning it was 'mint with box and papers' if it's not for sale?


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

It was I just bought from someone else (approx one week ago) and not new. I have no intentions of selling it not for any price. - Merry Xmas and Happy New Year


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

deleted


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

Sorry if I misled you or anyone else. I actually copied and paste my message to a You Tube reviewer so he can feature it on his Wrist Shot show. I am not going to mention who that person is as that would not be appropriate for this thread as that would be advertising and soliciting for him.


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## Buddman (Feb 16, 2014)

email from Ming….


Dear friends,

It would be an understatement to say 2021 has been a big but challenging year for us - we’ve seen significant changes in the watch market in general and MING as a company. I would like to start off by thanking all of you for the continuing support through the year.

There have been even more unexpected hurdles than 2020 - between mechanical challenges, further COVID delays, and just recently, flooding and logistics disruptions in Kuala Lumpur to close off December. I can only once again say sorry to those of you who’ve experienced delivery delays as a result. However, I am confident we have resolved the 17.09’s technical issues, which we back up with an extra year of warranty for all 17.09 customers, and logistics will be back after the holidays.

From 2022, we are also going to revise the way we approach social media. To make responses more personal and to ensure we don’t miss anything intended for us but left only in comments or direct messages; please email us at [email protected] - this allows us to have your buying and communication history on hand. Given we are still a very small team, this means resources will be allocated accordingly and we will be less active on social media; the best way to stay up to date with significant news is always going to be via this mailing list.

Going forward, we have decided to move _all_ pre-orders away from full prepayment; instead we will be collecting a 50% nonrefundable deposit (as we currently do for time-limited and long-delivery batches). We feel this is fairer across the board while allowing us to improve accessibility.

Finally, next year is our fifth anniversary. It seems like a lot of time has passed in the blink of an eye, as well as more than a third of it under some form of lockdown in which potential for even basic things like visiting new suppliers or holding events has been significantly curtailed. We would like to be able to meet all of you in person again soon, but travel in and out of Malaysia is still restricted and will likely continue to be for some time. I suppose on the plus side this means there is more time to design… and I think what we have in the works for 2022 is going to do birthday justice:

Special projects with some _really_ exotic movements
Another chronograph
Something light (which proved a bit more challenging than we expected, but still happening)
New entry level pieces, including a new case family
An independent collaboration
…and possibly one or two other things.

In the meantime and on behalf of everyone at MING, happy holidays, stay safe and see you on the other side!

-MT


----------



## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

Less social media response is smart for them in the short term. May not prevent the hate mail that will go straight to [email protected] and hopefully not burn through another admin.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

My 17.09 is shipping soon. Just got the free strap coupon.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

A more involved look at the issue that caused the misalignment - Design Brief Ch 2: Why a simple complication isn’t always simple


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Really interesting - more complicated than I thought. Could have been avoided by just choosing a time only movement and eschewing the jump hour, but regardless, can't be an easy thing to handle. 

While the controversy was red hot, I'm sure this epilogue won't be as discussed on the socials


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

MrBlahBlah said:


> While the controversy was red hot, I'm sure this epilogue won't be as discussed on the socials


Sadly this is true. And while I am somewhat of a MING "fanboy", it's nice to see them on the other side of this and being willing to discuss it. I'm still waiting on a statement from Grand Seiko acknowledging and perhaps explaining why their 9SA5 has been plagued with accuracy issues. 

In other MING news, this shot from MT's Instagram gives a pretty clear look at the new buckle design (or as someone mentioned earlier, the Ochs & Junor design):


__
http://instagr.am/p/CYDGQsQhrKs/


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Sadly this is true. And while I am somewhat of a MING "fanboy", it's nice to see them on the other side of this and being willing to discuss it. I'm still waiting on a statement from Grand Seiko acknowledging and perhaps explaining why their 9SA5 has been plagued with accuracy issues.


Haven't heard anything on the new GS movement, what's going on there?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Finally got a free strap coupon, but it seems all the short straps are sold out


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Finally got a free strap coupon, but it seems all the short straps are sold out


Same. I have tiny 6.25 inch wrists and the regular straps fit me just fine (shorter than most "standard" straps). However, I do not mind having some tail like others do.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

monsters said:


> Same. I have tiny 6.25 inch wrists and the regular straps fit me just fine (shorter than most "standard" straps). However, I do not mind having some tail like others do.


My wrists are even smaller, so would probably not work well with their standard strap. I guess I will wait for the restock, but the coupon only works until Jan 30 though...


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## jmcbooty83 (Jan 11, 2013)

Got notice of my watch being shipped; had to request the free strap code though. Not gonna lie, getting the strap does take most of the “sting” out of the delay. 

I really do want to see Ming succeed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

17.09 just arrived. Apologies for not being a professional photographer lol


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

If anyone receives their blue 17.09, doesn't bond with it and wants to sell it for a reasonable price, give me a shout. Based in Australia and the only one for sale over here currently is asking for $5500 USD....

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

Happy New Year Ming fans! Not exactly taken at midnight because when I looked down, I realized Brian Seacrests’ countdown was on delay.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

I have both the blue and burgundy and i have to say they are fantastic. A big refinement over the previous 17 iterations and seems like a fitting ending to the 17 line, as the design language seems to have been perfected here.

I expected the blue to be my runaway favorite but I have been extremely surprised by the burgundy. The color is so refined and complex in person. This is the everyday dress/sports watch I have been waiting for. Modern, a bit fun and extremely handsome while being 100m water resistant. Meanwhile, the blue is really in your face and would make a fun sports watch on rubber or bracelet.

Similar to the 17.06 it is amazing how Ming and team can make 2 essentially identical watches feel so different with dial color choices.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I should have my blue 17.09 delivered in the next day or two. Can not wait!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Maybe not for 2022, does anyone thing Ming will make another diver? The last one was so good for being the first real production series, but I’m not sure if there will be another “18” series.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> Maybe not for 2022, does anyone thing Ming will make another diver? The last one was so good for being the first real production series, but I’m not sure if there will be another “18” series.


I think there was a comment from them saying they'll do another diver again, but not with an ETA movement like the last one. I could be wrong or could've imagined this.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Testing out some new camera gear, so the MING 27.01 gets to be my muse:


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

monsters said:


> I have both the blue and burgundy and i have to say they are fantastic. A big refinement over the previous 17 iterations and seems like a fitting ending to the 17 line, as the design language seems to have been perfected here.
> 
> I expected the blue to be my runaway favorite but I have been extremely surprised by the burgundy. The color is so refined and complex in person. This is the everyday dress/sports watch I have been waiting for. Modern, a bit fun and extremely handsome while being 100m water resistant. Meanwhile, the blue is really in your face and would make a fun sports watch on rubber or bracelet.
> 
> ...


Love the strap choices. What are they?


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

@brianinCA 

Delugs nubuck with curved ends, and Ming OEM Jean Rousseau rubber. Both are great!


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Another cool recent special project drop - 19.CR Monopusher with vintage richly patinaed Venus 140 movement


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

zztopops said:


> Another cool recent special project drop - 19.CR Monopusher with vintage richly patinaed Venus 140 movement


It's an insanely cool piece! There's a backstory of how this watch came to exist over at Sean Song's instagram:

__
http://instagr.am/p/CYDwP8DL91e/


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Anybody else has misalignment issues? My hour hand is misaligned by about 35 mins. Love the watch otherwise!


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Anybody else has misalignment issues? My hour hand is misaligned by about 35 mins. Love the watch otherwise!


Yes, when I first got it, but I slightly adjusted in the second position to click it correct and it has been fine ever since. I guess when I played around with the second position I didn’t firmly click it into the right position. Give it a try!

The pamphlet it came with also said to give the crown a full backwards turn after use in the second position to fully disengage it.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

@waitlisted on Instagram has one of those too, and posted a gorgeous shot of his a few days ago:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CYB3UyCLEd1/

Also the lume on this is insane...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

monsters said:


> Yes, when I first got it, but I slightly adjusted in the second position to click it correct and it has been fine ever since. I guess when I played around with the second position I didn’t firmly click it into the right position. Give it a try!
> 
> The pamphlet it came with also said to give the crown a full backwards turn after use in the second position to fully disengage it.


Thank you! Tried what you described and it seems to work fine now.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

That Monopusher looks amazing! 

I'm not a Ming fanboy, but it's watches like this that really puts Ming above a bunch of other microbrands in terms of innovation and design language (in my mind).


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## Thadeust (Dec 14, 2018)

PuYang said:


> That Monopusher looks amazing!
> 
> I'm not a Ming fanboy, but it's watches like this that really puts Ming above a bunch of other microbrands in terms of innovation and design language (in my mind).


Agree. Love how he combines a modern design aesthetic with an older movement. Instead of just recreating an older design in an attempt to create a heritage throwback.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

So how has the 17.09 stacked up to expectations?? This is the largest volume release for the brand to date- was it worth the delay?


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Kevkev1 said:


> So how has the 17.09 stacked up to expectations?? This is the largest volume release for the brand to date- was it worth the delay?


Yes.


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## SISL (Jan 6, 2018)

yellowfury said:


> I think the implication is that it may increase


I don't know about that but *if* it increases, then it would be a very bright red warning flag that the company is struggling.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

jdelage said:


> I don't know about that but *if* it increases, then it would be a very bright red warning flag that the company is struggling.


Or not if it comes as a result of scaling production from 50 to 500 pieces.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

Just an update - received mine last week (sorry for not posting sooner!) Order #34xx. I find the burgundy to be quite subtle - maybe too subtle. But the fit and finish is great, and I've had no issues with a drifting hour hand. In fact, bought this for the quickset hour for travel.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

The case has been much admired but I'm still surprised at how nice it is! And the shadows of the hour markers...


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Looking at all these shots, I cannot wait for mine to ship. Dont think I have seen any negative about this model besides the issue that has been fixed by Ming. Anyone?


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

monsters said:


> Yes, when I first got it, but I slightly adjusted in the second position to click it correct and it has been fine ever since. I guess when I played around with the second position I didn’t firmly click it into the right position. Give it a try!
> 
> The pamphlet it came with also said to give the crown a full backwards turn after use in the second position to fully disengage it.


It's commendable that they managed to address the issue, but I'm not entirely happy with the fix. I have never heard of any other watch that needs fiddling with the crown every time the time is set to avoid an issue.

I guess it's the best that could be done, and mostly fixes the issue, but I hope it's a good learning on their side and they'll avoid this cheap tricks in the future.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

guillelle said:


> It's commendable that they managed to address the issue, but I'm not entirely happy with the fix. I have never heard of any other watch that needs fiddling with the crown every time the time is set to avoid an issue.
> 
> I guess it's the best that could be done, and mostly fixes the issue, but I hope it's a good learning on their side and they'll avoid this cheap tricks in the future.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk


It's happened before.


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## pjku79 (Sep 4, 2012)

following


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Can we just skip to March already so I can get mine! Loving what I am seeing and glad I went with the blue version.


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

I'm very tempted to pick up one of these as there is one for sale locally by me (at a hefty premium of course). Just wondered how difficult this movement might be to service? Would it need to be sent back to Ming in a few years or is it something any decent watchmaker would be able to look at? 

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## lwasil (Jun 20, 2018)

Pogo247 said:


> I'm very tempted to pick up one of these as there is one for sale locally by me (at a hefty premium of course). Just wondered how difficult this movement might be to service? Would it need to be sent back to Ming in a few years or is it something any decent watchmaker would be able to look at?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


Nothing complicated about the movement - any competent watchmaker could service it easily. Extra jumping hour hand gearing does not add a lot to complicate a service.


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

lwasil said:


> Nothing complicated about the movement - any competent watchmaker could service it easily. Extra jumping hour hand gearing does not add a lot to complicate a service.


Good stuff. Now I just need to decide if I should buy one now for $6k AUD ($4300 USD - although I wouldn't have to pay import fees of approx 15% if I brought one from overseas) or just wait for more to hit the market over the next few months and hope the prices stabilise. I'm thinking the latter...

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## lwasil (Jun 20, 2018)

Pogo247 said:


> Good stuff. Now I just need to decide if I should buy one now for $6k AUD ($4300 USD - although I wouldn't have to pay import fees of approx 15% if I brought one from overseas) or just wait for more to hit the market over the next few months and hope the prices stabilise. I'm thinking the latter...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


I am in the same dilemma. Initially I missed out on the buying window as my cc wouldn't let the transaction process, painful to contemplate buying now for double MSRP even after duties... 
As more come up hopefully the price will go down a bit? That would be nice.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

^ I am in the same boat. I regret selling my blue ming. But I fear that, unlike Kurono who keeps pumping out the same model in different colors, the 17.09 is sufficiently better than the previous models that the market is less saturated. But we will see…


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

dpap said:


> ^ I am in the same boat. I regret selling my blue ming. But I fear that, unlike Kurono who keeps pumping out the same model in different colors, the 17.09 is sufficiently better than the previous models that the market is less saturated. But we will see…


I appreciate you made a tidy profit on it but just curious as to why you sold it if you liked it so much? I've seen quite a few people (and some on this thread too) that rave about the watch and then put it up for sale a day or two later which baffles me tbh 

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Pogo247 said:


> I appreciate you made a tidy profit on it but just curious as to why you sold it if you liked it so much? I've seen quite a few people (and some on this thread too) that rave about the watch and then put it up for sale a day or two later which baffles me tbh
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


Because I had the magenta as well and could not convince myself I should keep both? Plus I have the ming 27.02 incoming and I thought it was too similar to the blue.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Just saw a listing online in which the seller is selling a burgundy one and states it is limited to 250 and/or 225 units depending on which number you pick! Where are they getting this from? Just making stuff up? Outright lie? We don't even know the full edition size do we?

Here is how they are describing it: (bold by me to show misleading representation)
Ming 17.09 Burgundy Dial Men's Watch Limited *250*
Reference: 17.09
Dated: 2025
Limited: *225 Pieces*


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

It hovers


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

christianj said:


> Just saw a listing online in which the seller is selling a burgundy one and states it is limited to 250 and/or 225 units depending on which number you pick! Where are they getting this from? Just making stuff up? Outright lie? We don't even know the full edition size do we?
> 
> Here is how they are describing it: (bold by me to show misleading representation)
> Ming 17.09 Burgundy Dial Men's Watch Limited *250*
> ...


That is BS. They had an open order window. I would not be surprised if there is a total of 2k-3k watches made in total


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> Just saw a listing online in which the seller is selling a burgundy one and states it is limited to 250 and/or 225 units depending on which number you pick! Where are they getting this from? Just making stuff up? Outright lie? We don't even know the full edition size do we?
> 
> Here is how they are describing it: (bold by me to show misleading representation)
> Ming 17.09 Burgundy Dial Men's Watch Limited *250*
> ...


Are you referring to the listing on Belmont Watches? I just saw that as well and was very confused by the 225 and 250 numbers. I don't believe MING publicly shared how many units were sold, but 225/250 seems low


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## arpanlaha (May 27, 2021)

225 accounts only for the watches sold in each color in the first two days (excluding the 10 minute window) - regardless it's super shady.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> Are you referring to the listing on Belmont Watches? I just saw that as well and was very confused by the 225 and 250 numbers. I don't believe MING publicly shared how many units were sold, but 225/250 seems low


Yes! Sure is misleading if not a total outright lie.



arpanlaha said:


> 225 accounts only for the watches sold in each color in the first two days (excluding the 10 minute window) - regardless it's super shady.


Oh...you mean the presale BEFORE the 10 minute window! Using that data to say that is the edition is super shady especially considering regardless of day of sale the watches are identical.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Clearly they have gotten wind of this discussion or realized they were misrepresenting the watch. Now listed as the following which is still not truthful:

Listing Title: Ming 17.09 Burgundy Dial Men's Watch Limited

Listing Detailed Description:
Ming 17.09 Burgundy Dial Men's Watch Limited 250
Reference: 17.09
Dated: 2025
Limited: Limited Production


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

I just got my ming 27.02 today. My first impression is that it is considerably more subtle and restrained than the 17.09, which has a lot more of a wow factor at first.


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## JTK Awesome (Apr 4, 2018)

They need a red-dial gold-case model called the Merciless.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

One from today.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Pogo247 said:


> I'm very tempted to pick up one of these as there is one for sale locally by me (at a hefty premium of course). Just wondered how difficult this movement might be to service? Would it need to be sent back to Ming in a few years or is it something any decent watchmaker would be able to look at?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


That’s kind of the beauty of the 17 series (and 18 series) - always design centric but maintenance costs are minimal because of the off-the-shelf movement. It reminds me of the older Tudors that used eta before going in-house.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

Lume shot of the 17.09


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## poofoot (Apr 18, 2017)

I’m new to this brand. Almost every picture I see of these watches looks like press photo. Is it actually that eye catching in person, or are these extra photogenic (or both)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

poofoot said:


> I’m new to this brand. Almost every picture I see of these watches looks like press photo. Is it actually that eye catching in person, or are these extra photogenic (or both)?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Both for sure. They're beautiful in person; they're just well designed. They are also designed by a professional watch photographer with a great deal of design obsession and attention to detail, so he knows what makes them play with light in pics. 

Because of that, I think the brand has also attracted photohraphy hobbyists (like me). So, we try our best to take great Pics and the watch just makes it very easy.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

horolo_gy said:


> Yes.


Great pic


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## poofoot (Apr 18, 2017)

horolo_gy said:


> Both for sure. They're beautiful in person; they're just well designed. They are also designed by a professional watch photographer with a great deal of design obsession and attention to detail, so he knows what makes them play with light in pics.
> 
> Because of that, I think the brand has also attracted photohraphy hobbyists (like me). So, we try our best to take great Pics and the watch just makes it very easy.


I see — thank you. And, great photos!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JRat (Jul 18, 2021)

They (17.09) are stunning..!


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## JRat (Jul 18, 2021)

Blues brothers..? (seems like the camera focus went to the car instead, it is of course the higher $$$l


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## adk225 (Feb 29, 2020)

Got my burgundy 17.09, and the first thing I noticed was a scuff mark on the bezel. How this made it through their QC, I have no idea.

Contacted Ming and they asked me to ship it back to them. Awaiting a replacement now. I've waited this long, so I guess I can wait another week or two.


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

Got to try one in person today from a local seller. It's a beautiful watch and I would happily buy at around retail price but to be honest, it's really not worth the near double retail price that they seem to be going for on the secondary market at the moment IMHO.









Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Does anyone know if the black alcantara strap that comes on the blue 17.09 can be taken into the water?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Does anyone know if the black alcantara strap that comes on the blue 17.09 can be taken into the water?


AFAIK, it's not marked as water-safe. So, probably not


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> AFAIK, it's not marked as water-safe. So, probably not


Supposedly alcantara is machine washable and the bottom seems to be rubber. I guess some splashes are okay but prob best not to take it into the pool or ocean.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## paedipod (Feb 11, 2006)

Late to this but just received an 18.01. I know that the OEM Ming/JR rubber strap gets great reviews but is there anything else out there (that I may have already…….) that works well? I have read (somewhere??) that curved bars MUST be used and wanted to check the hive mind.
cheers


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## En_Nissen (Oct 10, 2018)

paedipod said:


> Late to this but just received an 18.01. I know that the OEM Ming/JR rubber strap gets great reviews but is there anything else out there (that I may have already…….) that works well? I have read (somewhere??) that curved bars MUST be used and wanted to check the hive mind.
> cheers


Delugs make straps with curved spring bars, among a few others.


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## paedipod (Feb 11, 2006)

En_Nissen said:


> Delugs make straps with curved spring bars, among a few others.


Thanks, will look them up.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

You can use any strap that is thin enough with curved lug bars. Here is the 27.02 on molequin


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)




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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Has anyone that ordered a 17.09 during the timed release batch gotten their watch yet? Based on the email back then it looks like the first order number would have been 3663. I know they said first batch by end of March but I was thinking maybe they finished the other batch release and moved on to the timed batch….wishful thinking I guess since people keep posting them on IG.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

En_Nissen said:


> Delugs make straps with curved spring bars, among a few others.


The only shame is that Delugs don’t do them with an 18mm buckle fitting.


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## En_Nissen (Oct 10, 2018)

hub6152 said:


> The only shame is that Delugs don’t do them with an 18mm buckle fitting.


You can just order a custom strap, costs 10$ more than a standard one if I remember right.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Took a rare trip outside today (pandemic and crazy work hours).


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## poneglyph (Dec 23, 2012)

adk225 said:


> Got my burgundy 17.09, and the first thing I noticed was a scuff mark on the bezel. How this made it through their QC, I have no idea.
> 
> Contacted Ming and they asked me to ship it back to them. Awaiting a replacement now. I've waited this long, so I guess I can wait another week or two.
> 
> View attachment 16373512


Will the case be repolished and sold to the next guy?!


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

poneglyph said:


> Will the case be repolished and sold to the next guy?!


Why not, if it meets QC standards?

Maybe they could knock a little off the price or throw in an extra strap but there is no shortage of people who'd pay list price or more for it!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

poneglyph said:


> Will the case be repolished and sold to the next guy?!


Or maybe it just gets a new bezel and sold to someone else?


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## adk225 (Feb 29, 2020)

poneglyph said:


> Will the case be repolished and sold to the next guy?!


So they initially said they will replace the bezel and ship the watch back to me, and will never refinish the bezel.
In the end they just shipped me a new watch because that was quicker.


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## blef44 (11 mo ago)

christianj said:


> Has anyone that ordered a 17.09 during the timed release batch gotten their watch yet? Based on the email back then it looks like the first order number would have been 3663. I know they said first batch by end of March but I was thinking maybe they finished the other batch release and moved on to the timed batch….wishful thinking I guess since people keep posting them on IG.


I'm very early in the timed release batch. Within single digits of the cross over. I haven't heard anything from Ming recently.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

blef44 said:


> I'm very early in the timed release batch. Within single digits of the cross over. I haven't heard anything from Ming recently.


Thanks! Had hoped they would be working on timed release now but evidently not.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

MING got a nice write-up on NYT: In Malaysia, a Fledgling Watch Brand Grows


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## time-lord (Jun 29, 2016)

nice watches but I had read on facebook that sometimes the CS is not up to snuff. Do not if it true but the watch is stunning


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

time-lord said:


> nice watches but I had read on facebook that sometimes the CS is not up to snuff. Do not if it true but the watch is stunning


If you read it on Facebook it must be true.

Sarcasm aside, they had a few issues but I can't think of a brand that hasn't.


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## time-lord (Jun 29, 2016)

singularityseven said:


> If you read it on Facebook it must be true.
> 
> Sarcasm aside, they had a few issues but I can't think of a brand that hasn't.



Your opinion of FB equals mine it seems. I think the watches made by Ming are great, price and quality wise. And hopefully if there were CS issues they have been resolved.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

time-lord said:


> Your opinion of FB equals mine it seems. I think the watches made by Ming are great, price and quality wise. And hopefully if there were CS issues they have been resolved.


And if anyone reads the blog on Mings website he fully acknowledged the perceived shortcomings regarding the issues and customer service with the misaligned hands of the Massena lab. Given how small a company they are it’s inevitable that some people will not be happy! I work in retail and there are times when I really have to bite my lip and try to stay calm when dealing with irritable customers, it’s not easy!


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

OK now let’s see some more 19.CR pics / feedback!?!
And has anyone gotten a 20.11 delivered yet?


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Here’s my 27.02


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## yadel (Jan 26, 2021)




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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)




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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Looks like there's been an update to the strap page - NEW STRAPS IN STOCK SOON!










I'm curious to see what changes (if any) have been made to the Universal Bracelet.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Anyone hears news about delivery for the time batch of the 17.09?


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

downunder888 said:


> Anyone hears news about delivery for the time batch of the 17.09?



mine is April 2022.

how about you - downunder888?


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Cocas said:


> mine is April 2022.
> 
> how about you - downunder888?


Mine supposed to be by end of march but I havent heard a beep yet.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

downunder888 said:


> Mine supposed to be by end of march but I havent heard a beep yet.


Same here!


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

christianj said:


> Same here!


same three...


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## rakeshjv (Oct 3, 2021)

Just heard back from Ming about my March delivery. Got a link to pay for the remaining 50% and an estimate that the watch is undergoing final checks and will be shipped out “soon”.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

rakeshjv said:


> Just heard back from Ming about my March delivery. Got a link to pay for the remaining 50% and an estimate that the watch is undergoing final checks and will be shipped out “soon”.


You mind advising of your order number to those of us waiting?


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## rakeshjv (Oct 3, 2021)

christianj said:


> You mind advising of your order number to those of us waiting?


No Problem. 2017-36XX. It was really a few seconds into the limited time window.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Its march now. It doesnt look good with no comms from them lol


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

downunder888 said:


> Its march now. It doesnt look good with no comms from them lol


It’s only the 3rd of March and you said your delivery date is by the end of March which is over 3 weeks away. Instead of saying things like it doesn’t look good why not just be patient instead!


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

hub6152 said:


> It’s only the 3rd of March and you said your delivery date is by the end of March which is over 3 weeks away. Instead of saying things like it doesn’t look good why not just be patient instead!


I am being patient. Only saying that because there has been little to no comms from Ming team. Would be nice to have a quick update if it is on track or delay. I would be fine either way. I dont think that's too much to ask. After all, they just need to type up and email and send it to the mail list.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

I just got my order confirmation email today! (Just paid the remaining balance). Watch is expected to ship within 5 business days from completed payment.

I'm excited! But don't have a lot of experience with DHL delivering directly to my apartment :S

EDIT: for those who are wondering, I am in the "Delivery by end-March 2022: 2017-*3664* to 2017-*4332*" slot (the first of the 3 timed batch delivery dates)


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## blef44 (11 mo ago)

I also got my e-mail today to pay the remaining balance. It says it should ship within 5 days. I was in the first 10 orders of the timed batch.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Good to see them starting with the shipments. I’m in the 41xx range so in the first group but likely still another couple of weeks out.


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

New Ming













> Dear friends,
> 
> We hope you're enjoying the onset of spring!
> 
> ...


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Why is everyone just gunning for my wallet these days

Edit- biggest news is they’re instituting a cart hold


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## bearattack (Sep 26, 2021)

Here's hoping for an independent hour hand!


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Just got the email too. Based on this it looks like a white and a silver dialed version. Huge departure for them IMHO since they have always gone bold on their dials up until now. Wonder how that will go over.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> Why is everyone just gunning for my wallet these days
> 
> Edit- biggest news is they’re instituting a cart hold


The 37.05 release had a cart hold too!

Looks like I'll have to get my battle gear ready to fight for another MING 😂


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Had a MING playdate this weekend with two Massena 17.09s!


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Details available on the new 22.01 watches and not for me this time around. I have never been a fan of forest green as a color and certainly not on watches. Color just screams "dated" and "grandma and grandpas house" to me. Sorry!

If they had worked with the silver/gray and bronze tones in the center of both dials as the overall color for the watches these could have been gorgeous but the dated green just kills both for me.









2022 MING 22.01 Kyoto


Description With global travel finally resuming and given our last GMT was in 2018, we wanted to revisit the complication with the MING 22.01. The new 22-series also bridges the gap between the new 37-series and outgoing 17-series. The serene Kyoto dial reflects the textures and colours of...




ming.watch













MING 22.01 Gilt


Description With global travel finally resuming and given our last GMT was in 2018, we wanted to revisit the complication with the MING 22.01. The new 22-series also bridges the gap between the new 37-series and outgoing 17-series. The Gilt dial is a punchier, modern take on early brass and gilt...




ming.watch


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## bearattack (Sep 26, 2021)

christianj said:


> Details available on the new 22.01 watches and not for me this time around. I have never been a fan of forest green as a color and certainly not on watches. Color just screams "dated" and "grandma and grandpas house" to me. Sorry!
> 
> If they had worked with the silver/gray and bronze tones in the center of both dials as the overall color for the watches these could have been gorgeous but the dated green just kills both for me.
> 
> ...


Agree with those sentiments. Also bummed it doesn’t have the independent hour hand to be used as a true traveller GMT. Will be passing this time around.


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## mtnslyr (Mar 5, 2018)

New GMTs without jump hour hand for $3.5K. Yeah, hard pass.


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

I like the green!  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Eapfep (Oct 14, 2014)

What a bummer on the independent hour hand! I kind of wish the GMT hand was at least longer (like a Farer Lander IV which uses the same movement) because as it stands if I land at my local destination I'm spending the rest of the week looking for a tiny green hand to tell local time.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

Potentially a silly question, but does the SW330-2 have a date position, i.e. there's a phantom date and so a problem with adjusting the time between certain hours? The Farer with the same movt has a date window, so I thought I'd ask.
Personally I quite like this one....


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## SISL (Jan 6, 2018)

I have no use for a caller's GMT, so it's a no for me.


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## ispeshaled (Sep 10, 2016)

Was hoping for an independent hour hand on this...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

No surprise but I love them. I was surprised to see an exhibition case-back on these. I would've preferred a closed case-back for this movement, but it's not a deal breaker.


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## Eapfep (Oct 14, 2014)

I love the colorways - just not sure the GMT execution was well done IMO. In fact, I'd probably buy if there was no GMT function at all (and instead it had the jumping hour function of the 17.09).


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

New to the Ming experience. I see that the green delivers late December and the Gold February 2023. How has Ming been on timing for deliveries? Patience is not really something I am good at - the lead times seem really long. I feel as though I may regret putting down $1750 USD for something that could be nearly 1+ away. Strange business model.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> New to the Ming experience. I see that the green delivers late December and the Gold February 2023. How has Ming been on timing for deliveries? Patience is not really something I am good at - the lead times seem really long. I feel as though I may regret putting down $1750 USD for something that could be nearly 1+ away. Strange business model.


From my experience with the 18.01 H41 and 17.09, they've been on point with meeting their promised delivery dates. I think a few batches of the 27.02 had minor timeline hiccups, and a few 17.09 batches got pushed around a few weeks.


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## Watchcap (Feb 13, 2006)

They look great except the hour and minute hands are almost indistinguishable. I don't want to have to stare at a watch for 5 second to figure out what time it is. I'll stare at it for other reasons, but...


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## Cheymao (Jul 31, 2021)

I'm loving the green version! Based on the feedback here, it sounds like it will be easier for me to pick one up tomorrow 😉


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## WastedYears (May 21, 2015)

atvar said:


> Potentially a silly question, but does the SW330-2 have a date position, i.e. there's a phantom date and so a problem with adjusting the time between certain hours? The Farer with the same movt has a date window, so I thought I'd ask.
> Personally I quite like this one....


Seeing as the GMT hand is unidirectional, the date setting is likely the crown in the same position as to move the GMT hand, but turned in the opposite direction. So just avoind turning in the wrong direction alltogether and you shouldn't have issues with potential damage to the movement.

The watches are beauties - especially the gilt one. But at that price with a simple GMT movement and only unidirectional moving of the GMT hand it's a pass for me.


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## dreborn (Jul 11, 2010)

hi all! so I am trying to join the Ming family. Unsure if this is disrespectful in any way however, are they any existing Ming owners willing to "sell" me their chance to buy the Kyoto version tomorrow? I just want to increase my chances of getting one. Green is my favorite color and I love the watch. So basically: if you're a current Ming owner and DO NOT want the Kyoto, maybe we can work something out? Hope this does not offend anyone =) Thanks and hopefully I will join the Ming family one way or other other soon.


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## Watchowski (Jun 10, 2012)

dreborn said:


> hi all! so I am trying to join the Ming family. Unsure if this is disrespectful in any way however, are they any existing Ming owners willing to "sell" me their chance to buy the Kyoto version tomorrow? I just want to increase my chances of getting one. Green is my favorite color and I love the watch. So basically: if you're a current Ming owner and DO NOT want the Kyoto, maybe we can work something out? Hope this does not offend anyone =) Thanks and hopefully I will join the Ming family one way or other other soon.


There is like 1000 of each variant, I doubt this is going to be a mad rush like the prior models and I would think one should be able to get a piece comfortably.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

pass for this one too.. I know they gotta evolve their design, but it feels like its missing a bit of the "purity" of their design language with those numbers/fonts. Also


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## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

I quite like the gilt dial out of the two but I will also pass on this one, not really for me.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Here's a little highlight reel of five different MING watches - the 17.06 Copper, 27.01, 17.09 Massena LAB Black, 17.09 Massena LAB Honey and the 17.09 Blue


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## gsroppsa (Jan 5, 2013)

Just placed my order for the Kyoto 22.01. Couldn't resist, love the colours and absolutely adore the design. Pity about the lack of an independently adjustable hour hand, but it's not a deal killer I guess with overseas travel still being a PITA at the moment. Now for the long wait until December, can't hardly wait!


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Watchowski said:


> There is like 1000 of each variant, I doubt this is going to be a mad rush like the prior models and I would think one should be able to get a piece comfortably.


agreed, unless the flippers come in - but the value is not like 17 series, and yet its essentially a non-modded version of the 17.09 movement, but lacks the purity of the 17.09 design and its 1K pricier. I'd rather have a 17.09 and another watch


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> From my experience with the 18.01 H41 and 17.09, they've been on point with meeting their promised delivery dates. I think a few batches of the 27.02 had minor timeline hiccups, and a few 17.09 batches got pushed around a few weeks.


Here's my experience with the three Mings I have bought: 

17.06 Slate - bought Dec 2019, initially intended to deliver Mar. 2020, delivered May 2020
27.02 - bought Jan 2021, initial delivery scheduled for Dec. 2021, delivered Jan 2022 
17.09 Burgundy - bought April 2021, initial delivery scheduled for Aug. 2021, delivered Oct. 2021


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

God help me if they release a new diver this year…(trying to will this into existence lol)


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> Here's my experience with the three Mings I have bought:
> 
> 17.06 Slate - bought Dec 2019, initially intended to deliver Mar. 2020, delivered May 2020
> 27.02 - bought Jan 2021, initial delivery scheduled for Dec. 2021, delivered Jan 2022
> 17.09 Burgundy - bought April 2021, initial delivery scheduled for Aug. 2021, delivered Oct. 2021


I forgot about the 17.09 delay. Mine was delayed by a little over a month too because of the movement fix.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> God help me if they release a new diver this year…(trying to will this into existence lol)


I hope they continue their diver line. I love mine- the bezel is just so fun. And a Ming with a second hand is really nice


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## APPRF (May 14, 2019)

Passing on the new one. too small, and expensive for Sellita movement.


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

Looks like the Kyoto allotment for current owners sold out. My credit card got snagged on the first try and I had to get back into queue. Got it after 20 minutes. Hear you guys about the movement but I’m buying this one on aesthetics only.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

Order placed for the Kyoto! 
I hesitated for a bit, but I've wanting a Ming for ages and I'm not bothered about the potential negatives (I would rather have a GMT than a quick set hour, like the design, like the colours, not bothered by the movement).
I do feel it's a bit expensive, but I can't imagine the next model is going to be any cheaper, Ming prices have been steadily going up every year....


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## Tangem2 (11 mo ago)

Seems like there is plenty to go around for the Kyoto. No issue snagging one.


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## rooster1970 (Sep 16, 2015)

Authentication failure (Mastercard) on the first try to get Kyoto. Luckily, I had a second chance at 8:07AM EST with a different credit card (Chase VISA). So, I'll wait patiently for receiving my first Ming watch.


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## blackbezel (Apr 7, 2021)

Now the Kyoto version is showing as sold out, so it did take a good hour


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## dreborn (Jul 11, 2010)

finally joined the Ming ranks! little challenge with credit processor this morning but we got it done. definitely was competitive. I think the only reason why it took a full hour is because people kept failing payment until 9am est. every single watch was in a cart at 8:01am


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## danny_du (10 mo ago)

Could not get an allocation for the Kyoto this morning  would anyone be down to swap if I manage to snag a Gilt?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Passed on this. Nice watch. Not sure about the price - seems a little stiff. Really not sure about the 1 year wait. I despise crowdfunding which is exactly what this is. Cool watch. Congrats to those who grabbed one.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I didn't bite on this one. Though contrary to some opinions here, it wasn't about the price, which I actually think is pretty damn good for what you get. I have one ming and another on the way, so just want to space out my purchases. The design is cool, but kinda lacks that special something drawing me in. So overall, nice watch, I think there's a lot to love, but I'm just taking a beat.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

atvar said:


> Order placed for the Kyoto!
> I hesitated for a bit, but I've wanting a Ming for ages and I'm not bothered about the potential negatives (I would rather have a GMT than a quick set hour, like the design, like the colours, not bothered by the movement).
> I do feel it's a bit expensive, but I can't imagine the next model is going to be any cheaper, Ming prices have been steadily going up every year....


You have to remember this is marketed as more premium than the cheaper 17 series watches but not quite the high end of the range. The price makes sense, especially when you start looking at comparisons from other brands.

I ordered one, it'll be my first Ming. I love the overall aesthetic and have been looking for both a black/dark dial watch and a GMT, but will look to replace the green strap. For a while I thought I liked Gilt better, but the more I see the straight on shots of the yellow center, the more I favor the Kyoto. I'm hoping the new universal bracelet includes on the fly adjustments. Any recommendations for a curved spring bar strap with quick release to fit this watch?


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## Halkier (11 mo ago)

I managed to snag one. First time being, or rather becomming, a Ming owner! 😁 The waiting time sucks and I definitely do not like the crowdfunding approach from an established microbrand like this. Gonna suck it up...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> Any recommendations for a curved spring bar strap with quick release to fit this watch?


MING's Rubber an Alcantara stuff is still my favorite. But I've been using some of Formex's straps on my MING watches too of late - Straps


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> MING's Rubber an Alcantara stuff is still my favorite. But I've been using some of Formex's straps on my MING watches too of late - Straps


Thanks! Do you just use the ming buckle with the formex strap? They seem reasonably priced.

And it doesn't appear like ming sells any straps on their own... Boo.


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

22.01 Ming - I wish the movement is like the 17.09 whereby the local main hour hand can be moved independently from minute without hacking being a True Travelers GMT. It's a shame and I am surprised they did not progress with that movement to add a GMT function. So, I will stick to my burgundy 17.09 and the floating Office GMT of the 17.03 in Grey. I will pass on this one.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> Thanks! Do you just use the ming buckle with the formex strap? They seem reasonably priced.
> 
> And it doesn't appear like ming sells any straps on their own... Boo.


I use the Formex carbon clasp with their straps. I don't believe they're compatible with MING's buckles.

MING straps have been out of stock for a week or two now, but I think they'll be back in a month or two.


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## ms55 (Jan 31, 2017)

Cleverbs said:


> . Any recommendations for a curved spring bar strap with quick release to fit this watch?


Check out Delugs straps. He is a Ming enthusiast himself and sells a bunch of curved lug straps with quick release I believe. I dont own one myself but seems to be well received.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I use the Formex carbon clasp with their straps. I don't believe they're compatible with MING's buckles.
> 
> MING straps have been out of stock for a week or two now, but I think they'll be back in a month or two.





Cleverbs said:


> Thanks! Do you just use the ming buckle with the formex strap? They seem reasonably priced.
> 
> And it doesn't appear like ming sells any straps on their own... Boo.


I think Delugs makes some good priced straps with curved links. Welcome to the club btw


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Halkier said:


> I managed to snag one. First time being, or rather becomming, a Ming owner! 😁 The waiting time sucks and I definitely do not like the crowdfunding approach from an established microbrand like this. Gonna suck it up...


Indeed welcome to the ming community!


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## Halkier (11 mo ago)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Indeed welcome to the ming community!


Thank you 😊


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

ms55 said:


> Check out Delugs straps. He is a Ming enthusiast himself and sells a bunch of curved lug straps with quick release I believe. I dont own one myself but seems to be well received.


Except they all have a 16mm buckle so forget using the original Ming buckle unless you order bespoke.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Halkier said:


> I managed to snag one. First time being, or rather becomming, a Ming owner!  The waiting time sucks and I definitely do not like the crowdfunding approach from an established microbrand like this. Gonna suck it up...


I think it unfair to liken it to crowdfunding. I’ve paid a 50% deposit on my Czapek last October and will wait hopefully get it in May (although that waitlist is now a year if you ordered today), it’s standard practice to pay a deposit and wait, unlike crowdfunding which doesn’t guarantee you getting anything at the end.


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## NardinNut (Sep 22, 2008)

hub6152 said:


> I think it unfair to liken it to crowdfunding. I’ve paid a 50% deposit on my Czapek last October and will wait hopefully get it in May (although that waitlist is now a year if you ordered today), it’s standard practice to pay a deposit and wait, unlike crowdfunding which doesn’t guarantee you getting anything at the end.


Ouch. I just placed an order for a Czapek last week and only needed to put down a $1000 deposit (and you’re right it’s a year wait right now). 50% at that price range is a lot of money to be tied up. Did you order from an AD or through their site? Congrats on getting one! I was able to trying one on and it’s a hell of a watch!!


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

NardinNut said:


> Ouch. I just placed an order for a Czapek last week and only needed to put down a $1000 deposit (and you’re right it’s a year wait right now). 50% at that price range is a lot of money to be tied up. Did you order from an AD or through their site? Congrats on getting one! I was able to trying one on and it’s a hell of a watch!!


Through an AD so that was their rules, but it came with a tasty discount so I’m not complaining at all. I also got to try it on as well.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I'm not a big fan of having to wait such a long time either, but then I look at the rest of the market of "desirable" watches, and I'll take this over Rolex, Patek, AP etc.'s practices any day. At least I know for a fact that I'll have a watch in x months, and I don't need to worry about whether I've sufficiently greased an ADs wallet with "relationship building" business.


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## Halkier (11 mo ago)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Indeed welcome to the ming community!


Thank you 😊


hub6152 said:


> I think it unfair to liken it to crowdfunding. I’ve paid a 50% deposit on my Czapek last October and will wait hopefully get it in May (although that waitlist is now a year if you ordered today), it’s standard practice to pay a deposit and wait, unlike crowdfunding which doesn’t guarantee you getting anything at the end.


Yeah, you are probably right. It is however still a risk because the brand could somehow go out of business in the meantime. 

Btw, those Czapek Antarctique are lovely. I would sure like to aquire one sometime in the future. One can always dream 🙂


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

hub6152 said:


> I think it unfair to liken it to crowdfunding. I’ve paid a 50% deposit on my Czapek last October and will wait hopefully get it in May (although that waitlist is now a year if you ordered today), it’s standard practice to pay a deposit and wait, unlike crowdfunding which doesn’t guarantee you getting anything at the end.


Getting 1750 USD a full YEAR in advance is tough to swallow. That’s an interest free loan to Ming. I’m not being critical. It just doesn’t work for me personally. As much as I like the watch, there will be a dozen watches I like just as much in the next 12 months that won’t require me to wait a year. I understand the model. They aren’t the only ones. I guess I’m too impatient these days. That said the second hand prices for Ming are nuts so I guess I’ll never own one sadly.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Halkier said:


> Thank you 😊
> 
> Yeah, you are probably right. It is however still a risk because the brand could somehow go out of business in the meantime.
> 
> Btw, those Czapek Antarctique are lovely. I would sure like to aquire one sometime in the future. One can always dream 🙂


I know this is possible generally but I really don't see this happening with MING. If it really came to going under versus delivering watches they could easily do a VC round to raise capital and keep their operation in business. I have no doubt that there are a ton of players in the watch business who would want to get a piece of their company. However, they don't seem to have any liquidity issues and I'm under the impression that the owner team themselves have deep enough pockets to keep the operation going without profit if need be.

On another note, does anyone remember the total numbers sold for the 17.09? Wasn't it around 2000 units? I'm curious because the Kyoto and Gilt watches are going to sell 2000 units no problem, but the rarity of the 17.09 will be the same as the 22.01. What's your take on that? Do you think it reflects an increase in the brand's market share in the last year? Do you think folks get a sense of exclusivity with the 22.01 that they don't get with the 17.09 given that the 22.01 is a numbered LE (I remember asking a fellow MING enthusiast if he bought the 17.09 after the release and he said, 'Why would I buy that one? Everyone else is going to have it.')? Or the 22.01 is a better watch? 

(I also know anecdotally of a few folks who weren't able to get the 17.09 because all of their credit cards were declined during the time limited purchase window, so conceivably there could have been a few more out there that MING didn't sell.)


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

conrad227 said:


> I know this is possible generally but I really don't see this happening with MING. If it really came to going under versus delivering watches they could easily do a VC round to raise capital and keep their operation in business. I have no doubt that there are a ton of players in the watch business who would want to get a piece of their company. However, they don't seem to have any liquidity issues and I'm under the impression that the owner team themselves have deep enough pockets to keep the operation going without profit if need be.
> 
> On another note, does anyone remember the total numbers sold for the 17.09? Wasn't it around 2000 units? I'm curious because the Kyoto and Gilt watches are going to sell 2000 units no problem, but the rarity of the 17.09 will be the same as the 22.01. What's your take on that? Do you think it reflects an increase in the brand's market share in the last year? Do you think folks get a sense of exclusivity with the 22.01 that they don't get with the 17.09 given that the 22.01 is a numbered LE (I remember asking a fellow MING enthusiast if he bought the 17.09 after the release and he said, 'Why would I buy that one? Everyone else is going to have it.')? Or the 22.01 is a better watch?
> 
> (I also know anecdotally of a few folks who weren't able to get the 17.09 because all of their credit cards were declined during the time limited purchase window, so conceivably there could have been a few more out there that MING didn't sell.)


I think Ming's will remain in demand as their availability is limited. I'd be shocked if the 22.01 isn't selling for more than retail shortly after release. 

The 22.01 is a higher quality watch than the 17 series. It'll still have exclusivity. And honestly it's probably my favorite design of the bunch, so I'm glad it's the one I got. I just hope the new version of the bracelet has on the fly adjustments.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Cleverbs said:


> I think Ming's will remain in demand as their availability is limited. I'd be shocked if the 22.01 isn't selling for more than retail shortly after release.
> 
> The 22.01 is a higher quality watch than the 17 series. It'll still have exclusivity. And honestly it's probably my favorite design of the bunch, so I'm glad it's the one I got. I just hope the new version of the bracelet has on the fly adjustments.


just personal preference but the blue 17.01 speaks to me much more than the 22.01. Not sure the 22.01 will age as well. It is a little busy to my eyes and it detracts from the beautiful simplicity of the 17.01. The 17.01 have asking prices from 3700 to 5000. Everyone wants a profit I guess.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Tpp3975 said:


> The 17.01 have asking prices from 3700 to 5000. Everyone wants a profit I guess.


Market forces pure and simple. Independent watch makers products are in high demand.


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## Eapfep (Oct 14, 2014)

Cleverbs said:


> I think Ming's will remain in demand as their availability is limited. I'd be shocked if the 22.01 isn't selling for more than retail shortly after release.
> 
> The 22.01 is a higher quality watch than the 17 series. It'll still have exclusivity. And honestly it's probably my favorite design of the bunch, so I'm glad it's the one I got. I just hope the new version of the bracelet has on the fly adjustments.


I'd rather have (and pay over premium) for a basic three-hander (or two-hander) executed perfectly vs a watch with a half-executed GMT complication - for me that feeds into the idea of "quality". I am aware some people are looking explicit for a caller GMT but it is undeniably the cheaper and easier execution.


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Eapfep said:


> I'd rather have (and pay over premium) for a basic three-hander (or two-hander) executed perfectly vs a watch with a half-executed GMT complication - for me that feeds into the idea of "quality". I am aware some people are looking explicit for a caller GMT but it is undeniably the cheaper and easier execution.


That's just, like, your opinion, man. 

But I understand the sentiment. The 17s were all simple and good looking, and I really liked the 17.09s as they evolved from previous versions. I used to be upset I missed out on them at their initial price offerings ($900-2k). 

On the flip side, how many two or three hand watches have "perfect execution"? From what I've seen, maybe the Rolex OP and maybe the Ming 17.09 and 27.01/27.02? But I haven't seen the Mings in person to really judge, and the 27s aren't perfect in my eyes (two hand manual wind watches in the $4-5k range is not my favorite).


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## Eapfep (Oct 14, 2014)

Cleverbs said:


> That's just, like, your opinion, man.
> 
> But I understand the sentiment. The 17s were all simple and good looking, and I really liked the 17.09s as they evolved from previous versions. I used to be upset I missed out on them at their initial price offerings ($900-2k).
> 
> On the flip side, how many two or three hand watches have "perfect execution"? From what I've seen, maybe the Rolex OP and maybe the Ming 17.09 and 27.01/27.02? But I haven't seen the Mings in person to really judge, and the 27s aren't perfect in my eyes (two hand manual wind watches in the $4-5k range is not my favorite).


Of course, my opinion (which on cursory glance on this thread seems to be shared by at least some other folks). 

I admit there's no such thing as perfect execution, to me it's a sliding scale from 0-100 but the 17.09 or 27.01/0.2 score favourably in their category and when compared to other two/three handers. Maybe this is just my opinion, but it surely seems like market values would favour my assessment as well. 

I do believe the 22.01 will sell (slightly) above retail, and as a Ming fan, I'm happy to see the Kyoto sell out as fast as they can. But when compared to other GMTs, it's simply a lazy and cheap execution of the complication (again this is all IMO, but ask yourself how many "caller GMTs" exist in and above the price range of the 22.01).


----------



## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Just picked up my 17.09! No pictures, since you've all seen the watch a bunch of times already, and my photos suck.

-The Blue color is lovely in person, and the "guilloche" pattern creates a lovely figure 8 when playing with the light.
-Hand winding it feels great, a decent amount of resistance, something not too common with autos and winding is butter smooth.
-Not the biggest fan of the included strap (black+blue doesn't work IMO). But the strap is pretty comfortable.
-Rotor is a bit louder than I expected.

I really really didn't want to spend money on a curved strap just for this watch... but I might have to, seeing as how lovely the watch is!


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Eapfep said:


> Of course, my opinion (which on cursory glance on this thread seems to be shared by at least some other folks).
> 
> I admit there's no such thing as perfect execution, to me it's a sliding scale from 0-100 but the 17.09 or 27.01/0.2 score favourably in their category and when compared to other two/three handers. Maybe this is just my opinion, but it surely seems like market values would favour my assessment as well.
> 
> I do believe the 22.01 will sell (slightly) above retail, and as a Ming fan, I'm happy to see the Kyoto sell out as fast as they can. But when compared to other GMTs, it's simply a lazy and cheap execution of the complication (again this is all IMO, but ask yourself how many "caller GMTs" exist in and above the price range of the 22.01).


While I would have preferred a true GMT, those all seem to be much thicker and bigger than this watch. I'll sacrifice the functionality for the smaller size.

Also price is a weird argument to make about the caller GMT function, considering the parallel argument of "how many watches tell time better than any two hand Ming watch for less money" would produce quite a few results. 

Regardless, every watch has it's fans and detractors, and it's better to be interesting and a little polarizing than dull and elicit a lot less emotion. Luxury watches aren't rational purchases these days, and I'm glad Ming has a unique design language they're applying in different ways to capture people a little tired of the big players.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Just picked up my 17.09! No pictures, since you've all seen the watch a bunch of times already, and my photos suck.
> 
> -The Blue color is lovely in person, and the "guilloche" pattern creates a lovely figure 8 when playing with the light.
> -Hand winding it feels great, a decent amount of resistance, something not too common with autos and winding is butter smooth.
> ...


Congrats on the new watch! Definitely agree with you on (2). The hand winding feels fantastic to me too.

The Alcantara strap grew on me, and I wasn't a fan of the 'furry' look at first.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

PuYang said:


> Just picked up my 17.09! No pictures, since you've all seen the watch a bunch of times already, and my photos suck.
> 
> -The Blue color is lovely in person, and the "guilloche" pattern creates a lovely figure 8 when playing with the light.
> -Hand winding it feels great, a decent amount of resistance, something not too common with autos and winding is butter smooth.
> ...


Nice! It's awesome. I like the black Alcantara with blue stitching! 

I can't resist posting a photo (or two).


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

Eapfep said:


> Of course, my opinion (which on cursory glance on this thread seems to be shared by at least some other folks).
> 
> I admit there's no such thing as perfect execution, to me it's a sliding scale from 0-100 but the 17.09 or 27.01/0.2 score favourably in their category and when compared to other two/three handers. Maybe this is just my opinion, but it surely seems like market values would favour my assessment as well.
> 
> I do believe the 22.01 will sell (slightly) above retail, and as a Ming fan, I'm happy to see the Kyoto sell out as fast as they can. But when compared to other GMTs, it's simply a lazy and cheap execution of the complication (again this is all IMO, but ask yourself how many "caller GMTs" exist in and above the price range of the 22.01).


To me a "caller" vs "flyer" GMT seems a bit like a perpetual vs annual calendar, or a flyback vs regular ("caller"?) chronograph. Yes, I can recognize that it's perhaps not the apogee of watchmaking for that particular complication, but it's not enough for me to rule out buying a watch with it. 

I kind of agree with you on the price, mind you, but I'm prepared to pay a premium for a Ming because of the brand and the design, not the movement...


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

APPRF said:


> Passing on the new one. too small, and expensive for Sellita movement.


I guess with the 2nd hand value of the 17.09 around 4K USD then its comparatively a "value". but I dunno, in pictures that font/design is not my first choice


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

atvar said:


> To me a "caller" vs "flyer" GMT seems a bit like a perpetual vs annual calendar, or a flyback vs regular ("caller"?) chronograph. Yes, I can recognize that it's perhaps not the apogee of watchmaking for that particular complication, but it's not enough for me to rule out buying a watch with it.
> 
> I kind of agree with you on the price, mind you, but I'm prepared to pay a premium for a Ming because of the brand and the design, not the movement...


disagree with this analogy. annual is a subset of perpetual but caller is not a subset of flyer, its an different direction in terms of solution


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

atvar said:


> Order placed for the Kyoto!
> I hesitated for a bit, but I've wanting a Ming for ages and I'm not bothered about the potential negatives (I would rather have a GMT than a quick set hour, like the design, like the colours, not bothered by the movement).
> I do feel it's a bit expensive, but I can't imagine the next model is going to be any cheaper, Ming prices have been steadily going up every year....


yeah if you don't have a 17.09, then I'd consider it. As you said the choices are few and might be fewer in the future. But for 17.09 owners it doesn't make that much sense unless you really like the color


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Eapfep said:


> I love the colorways - just not sure the GMT execution was well done IMO. In fact, I'd probably buy if there was no GMT function at all (and instead it had the jumping hour function of the 17.09).


Agree with you here, bascially I think that if they had just updated colors with this new design, but no GMT function and keep the movement like last time "mod by Schartz-Etienne" and then added this display back, then they would be better and retain some of the purity of the MING design so far and the +1K

but +1k for less movement and the strange font is kind of not appealing if you have a 17.09 at retail price. If you don't, since the 17.09 is at ~4K level now, you might find it to be an acceptable price I guess


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

golffoxtrot said:


> Agree with you here, bascially I think that if they had just updated colors with this new design, but no GMT function and keep the movement like last time "mod by Schartz-Etienne" and then added this display back, then they would be better and retain some of the purity of the MING design so far and the +1K
> 
> but +1k for less movement and the strange font is kind of not appealing if you have a 17.09 at retail price. If you don't, since the 17.09 is at ~4K level now, you might find it to be an acceptable price I guess


With each new Ming release and the way the watch market is moving, it's going to be harder to get them. If you have a 17.09, then yeah, probably no reason to get this watch. However would I rather pay $3500 for this watch or $3500-4k for a 17 series watch (literally any of them)? I'd take this one. 

Is there anyone who doubts the Gilt will sell out just as quickly as the Kyoto? For a while I wish the Gilt was the one selling first because I preferred the design; I liked the strap color and the way the watch face turned almost entirely blue at some angles. But after looking at the pics more, the straight on shot with the yellow center has soured a bit, and I'm glad I got in on Kyoto.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Sorry for being that guy, but I'm gonna ask if anyone has any "affordable" curved watch strap suggestions? My general go-to is Delugs, who does offer quick-release curved straps, and is an owner of multiple Ming watches, so I know his straps will work 100%.

But I'm also hoping to not spend that much on a strap that only ONE of my watches can use.

I have emailed Martu earlier today to see if curved + quick-release is something she offers. But if anyone else has any suggestions, I would love to hear it 

Also note: I have small wrists, so I generally avoid off the shelf straps like Hirsch etc, due to limited selection for my sizes. Also somewhat prefer handmade straps to support strapmakers.

Will be looking at Etsy as well.

Thanks in advance!


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## Halkier (11 mo ago)

Cleverbs said:


> With each new Ming release and the way the watch market is moving, it's going to be harder to get them. If you have a 17.09, then yeah, probably no reason to get this watch. However would I rather pay $3500 for this watch or $3500-4k for a 17 series watch (literally any of them)? I'd take this one.
> 
> Is there anyone who doubts the Gilt will sell out just as quickly as the Kyoto? For a while I wish the Gilt was the one selling first because I preferred the design; I liked the strap color and the way the watch face turned almost entirely blue at some angles. But after looking at the pics more, the straight on shot with the yellow center has soured a bit, and I'm glad I got in on Kyoto.


The early access guilt sold out pretty quick, at least when I checked after 20 min. Public sale is tomorrow but I guess it will sell out rather quickly too.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

PuYang said:


> Sorry for being that guy, but I'm gonna ask if anyone has any "affordable" curved watch strap suggestions?


I've got a few Formex leather straps which work well with MING, but you'll need a new clasp as well which may not be entirely "affordable" - ESSENCE "Deployant" Black Leather Strap Black Stitching (without clasp)

Monstraps has curved leather straps too, but are only $10-15 cheaper than Delugs - MONSTRAPS

DuFrane has a few - 20mm Curved Leather Strap

Looks like WatchGecko has some too, but I'm not sure if these are just curved ends or if they have curved spring bars too - Selby Remborde Curved Ends Genuine Leather Watch Strap


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## darrenak (Jul 9, 2014)

I took the plunge on the 27.02 and so glad I did.


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> I've got a few Formex leather straps which work well with MING, but you'll need a new clasp as well which may not be entirely "affordable" - ESSENCE "Deployant" Black Leather Strap Black Stitching (without clasp)
> 
> Monstraps has curved leather straps too, but are only $10-15 cheaper than Delugs - MONSTRAPS
> 
> ...


Thank you~ I will look into this when I'm not "at work" 

Although a quick look at Monstraps seems they only do 20-16? Unless I pay even more to customize further. (I really want to re-use the Ming buckle).

I'll look into the other links soon.

Thanks again!


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)




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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Nearly half an hour in and watches still available. Hope everyone that wanted one got one!


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## rooster1970 (Sep 16, 2015)

It seems a bit of slow for gilt. I thought it's more popular.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Ok, this is it. I am done. 

I have been trying to buy the gilt model for the last half hour. All my credit cards are being declined, even after entering codes sent through SMS and even after calling my bank (they fail 3d authentication).

I have better things to do than this so I guess no more ming watches for me. 

So long and it was good while it lasted.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

rooster1970 said:


> It seems a bit of slow for gilt. I thought it's more popular.


I thought so too based on initial reactions, but maybe people soured on the color scheme since initial announcement?

Quick edit: 34 minutes in, all watches on cart hold. Regardless, 12-18 months from now I'm sure the demand will be there on the secondary market since there won't be another opportunity to buy new.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

dpap said:


> Ok, this is it. I am done.
> 
> I have been trying to buy the gilt model for the last half hour. All my credit cards are being declined, even after entering codes sent through SMS and even after calling my bank (they fail 3d authentication).
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that. I didn't have an issue with my Chase Visa.


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## Julian Yeo (Jun 23, 2016)

Always had interest in the brand and just happen to check there ig a few days ago and missed the Kyoto release which I really like and want…. But still ended up reserving a gilt guess I’m in the club now. Now for the waiting game.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Cleverbs said:


> Sorry to hear that. I didn't have an issue with my Chase Visa.


is that a US card? maybe time to switch banks.
Can you tell me which one it is?


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Gilt is still there for order.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

dpap said:


> is that a US card? maybe time to switch banks.
> Can you tell me which one it is?


Yeah US. Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa

You don't have to switch banks though. It can just be a card independent of your bank.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Yeah, after the issues I had with the Moonphase I got a Chase Visa and it seems to work well with MING's payment gateway and their 3D secure requirements.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Cleverbs said:


> Yeah US. Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa
> 
> You don't have to switch banks though. It can just be a card independent of your bank.


perfect. Will get one of those. I know I dont need to switch banks but I do like to have all my accounts in one place. But I will definitely cancel my Citi black card, no point paying 450 in annual fees if they cannot process a simple transaction.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

I didn't buy this release but I am always surprised by all the US based people that have payment issues. I've bought two Mings in the past and several Kurono Tokyo's and have never had an issue with a Chase or Amex issued card.


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## cappo3 (Nov 23, 2018)

This time around I bought a Kurono Shiro and a Ming 22.01 GMT Gilt. 
No problem with payments, in both instances through a prepaid card.


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## calbear13 (Jun 24, 2013)

Was pretty shocked to see watches still able to be reserved half an hour after the release. Curious as to whether it was entirely due to payment issues from prospective buyers, or if the Ming hype is coming down to Earth.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

calbear13 said:


> Was pretty shocked to see watches still able to be reserved half an hour after the release. Curious as to whether it was entirely due to payment issues from prospective buyers, or if the Ming hype is coming down to Earth.


Kyoto had tons of payment issues, but those were all reserved immediately. Honestly it feels like the design wasn't as loved - the color scheme was something I initially loved, especially because they kept using the angles that made the dial look all blue, but the more I looked at head on shots, the more I disliked the yellow. 

Even so, these are still super limited watches that will never be available again, and they sold out in under an hour. 18 months from now, they'll be selling over retail for those who missed out or simply didn't want to deal with the pre-orders.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

calbear13 said:


> Was pretty shocked to see watches still able to be reserved half an hour after the release. Curious as to whether it was entirely due to payment issues from prospective buyers, or if the Ming hype is coming down to Earth.


I think it's the design of this particular model. It doesn't seem to work. Doesn't feel special the way other mings do. Too busy, weird colors, weird dial proportions...


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## rooster1970 (Sep 16, 2015)

Someone mentioned the unlimited 17.09 is in the range of 2,000-3,000. But 17.09 is at a lower price. So, 2,000 may be the saturated point for 22.01.


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## Halkier (11 mo ago)

horolo_gy said:


> I think it's the design of this particular model. It doesn't seem to work. Doesn't feel special the way other mings do. Too busy, weird colors, weird dial proportions...


I think there were severe payment issues. European visa cards was also denied several times until the watch was suddenly sold out. Again, that may of course have been an unlucky few. Who knows.

I happen to really like the design. I also like that it is titanium (grade 5 I believe).


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

horolo_gy said:


> I think it's the design of this particular model. It doesn't seem to work. Doesn't feel special the way other mings do. Too busy, weird colors, weird dial proportions...


I don’t disagree but I still ended up getting one. Worst case I can return it. Mostly out of stubbornness—thanks for the tip above, my Amazon chase card seemed to work


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

rooster1970 said:


> Someone mentioned the unlimited 17.09 is in the range of 2,000-3,000. But 17.09 is at a lower price. So, 2,000 may be the saturated point for 22.01.


I mean... maybe? But in the bigger picture, having all of Kyoto reserved in the first minute, and the lesser loved Gilt sold out in under an hour... that's still pretty quick for a $3500 watch you won't see for 9-12 months. That's still significant demand.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

Hope the people who wanted a Gilt managed to get one!

I'm also surprised at the card issues, I didn't bother to call my bank first and the card went straight through, maybe it helps to have a history of international online shopping on random sites?  

I noticed, having reserved a Kyoto, I immediately got the "customer" email for gilt availability yesterday, which was surprising! 

I was almost tempted to get a Gilt as well and hold it for resale, but held off as I want to respect the spirit of limited availability for wearers rather than scalpers...


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

Ming really need to fix the payment issues. I landed a 17.09 only on the second order day, calling the bank three times, and having someone on the line with me when the transaction went through. My bank is one of the largest in the US. Sure, I could pick up a card from a different bank; we all could. Or Ming could simply get a better payment service and save us all the hassle and frustration.

Far more than the feeding frenzy, to me the abysmal payment system is the biggest turnoff to Ming.


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## Cannik (Sep 12, 2015)

atvar said:


> Order placed for the Kyoto!
> I hesitated for a bit, but I've wanting a Ming for ages and I'm not bothered about the potential negatives (I would rather have a GMT than a quick set hour, like the design, like the colours, not bothered by the movement).
> I do feel it's a bit expensive, but I can't imagine the next model is going to be any cheaper, Ming prices have been steadily going up every year....


I am in the exact same feeling as with you and this is my first Ming. Ordered a Gilt though.


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## Buddhabelly (Jan 9, 2022)

atvar said:


> Hope the people who wanted a Gilt managed to get one!
> 
> I'm also surprised at the card issues, I didn't bother to call my bank first and the card went straight through, maybe it helps to have a history of international online shopping on random sites?
> 
> ...


Appreciate your thoughtfulness. I’d wanted a Gilt, but the opening time for “Non-Prior owners” happened to be 4AM my local time. By the time I woke up there was none left. Wish it had worked out somehow, but I’m not gonna lose any sleep over it. (pun intended) !!


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## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

watchcrank_tx said:


> Ming really need to fix the payment issues. I landed a 17.09 only on the second order day, calling the bank three times, and having someone on the line with me when the transaction went through. My bank is one of the largest in the US. Sure, I could pick up a card from a different bank; we all could. Or Ming could simply get a better payment service and save us all the hassle and frustration.
> 
> Far more than the feeding frenzy, to me the abysmal payment system is the biggest turnoff to Ming.


I had a similar challenge purchasing my 17.09 but the process for snagging a Gilt during the existing customer window was much easier. I know they get a ton of grief but this was a big improvement, imo.


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## Cannik (Sep 12, 2015)

Halkier said:


> The early access guilt sold out pretty quick, at least when I checked after 20 min. Public sale is tomorrow but I guess it will sell out rather quickly too.


I were in the public session of Gilt sale, and it still available 20mins after., guessed it's not so popular. But who knows in 12 months later where it is closer to delivery and more folks want to buy at spot to the rarity will drive price up further?
Regardless buying this time piece is fun as it has many unknown factor to deal with.


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

For anyone who missed out on the 22.01 there is always the waitlsit





MING Waitlist Registration


Fill out this form.



forms.ming.watch





Interestingly, you also qualify for the Special Projects Cave email list and waitlist for the 20.01 (35k CHF😳) as a current Ming owner if you bought one from the secondary market.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

calbear13 said:


> Was pretty shocked to see watches still able to be reserved half an hour after the release. Curious as to whether it was entirely due to payment issues from prospective buyers, or if the Ming hype is coming down to Earth.


Lmao are you suggesting because the watches didn’t sell out in a handful of minutes that the “hype is coming down to earth”? Do you know silly that is? Even if they sold out in a day, that’s still incredible demand- as prices and volumes increase. Hahahahha


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Cleverbs said:


> With each new Ming release and the way the watch market is moving, it's going to be harder to get them. If you have a 17.09, then yeah, probably no reason to get this watch. However would I rather pay $3500 for this watch or $3500-4k for a 17 series watch (literally any of them)? I'd take this one.
> 
> Is there anyone who doubts the Gilt will sell out just as quickly as the Kyoto? For a while I wish the Gilt was the one selling first because I preferred the design; I liked the strap color and the way the watch face turned almost entirely blue at some angles. But after looking at the pics more, the straight on shot with the yellow center has soured a bit, and I'm glad I got in on Kyoto.


do you think it will get harder and harder? curious to see how this batch sold, and if they will do more of these lower end releases. depending on how they want to grow (and if the demand is there, it could actually be easier). 

as to your question above, if the brand released the 17.09 and this at the same time and said 3500$ take your pick, it would be 17.09 for me hands-down every time. But once you go backwards, 17.06 (probably, especially copper one), before that, maybe not...


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Kevkev1 said:


> Lmao are you suggesting because the watches didn’t sell out in a handful of minutes that the “hype is coming down to earth”? Do you know silly that is? Even if they sold out in a day, that’s still incredible demand- as prices and volumes increase. Hahahahha


well to be honest, it is indeed much slower than before, although still an excellent performance. but indeed maybe this series is a bit "off" in terms of the design and the price increase means the value isn't what it used to be


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

golffoxtrot said:


> do you think it will get harder and harder? curious to see how this batch sold, and if they will do more of these lower end releases. depending on how they want to grow (and if the demand is there, it could actually be easier).
> 
> as to your question above, if the brand released the 17.09 and this at the same time and said 3500$ take your pick, it would be 17.09 for me hands-down every time. But once you go backwards, 17.06 (probably, especially copper one), before that, maybe not...


The 17.09 was like $2k retail, but is now hitting the secondary market at $3500-4k. So the choice is used 17.09 or new 22.01 at the same money, with the 22.01 being billed by Ming as the more premium of the two.

I'd still take the 22.01. At retail prices for both it might be a different answer.


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

Cleverbs said:


> The 17.09 was like $2k retail, but is now hitting the secondary market at $3500-4k. So the choice is used 17.09 or new 22.01 at the same money, with the 22.01 being billed by Ming as the more premium of the two.
> 
> I'd still take the 22.01. At retail prices for both it might be a different answer.


The 17.09 has the independent hour hand of the same movement in the 22.01 that does not so, the GMT is an Office and not a True Traveler's GMT. Ming could have gone the extra mile to have the movement modified to make it that even for an extra $500, it would have been worth it and I would have picked up The Gilt. As I have both the 17.09 and 17.03 GMT, getting the 22.01 would serve no purpose for me.


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## rooster1970 (Sep 16, 2015)

Basically, $1500 for the 22.01 dial.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Cleverbs said:


> The 17.09 was like $2k retail, but is now hitting the secondary market at $3500-4k. So the choice is used 17.09 or new 22.01 at the same money, with the 22.01 being billed by Ming as the more premium of the two.
> 
> I'd still take the 22.01. At retail prices for both it might be a different answer.


well subjectivity aside, I think the "billing" is largely irrelevant when it comes to these things. Look what Patek "bills" the aquanaut as in their lineup, it has no bearing on what enthusiasts think on the secondary market.

The same enthusiasts will understand the objective "value" in each watch and so I guess we'll see in a few years when both can simply be judged by their secondary value


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

watches4ever said:


> The 17.09 has the independent hour hand of the same movement in the 22.01 that does not so, the GMT is an Office and not a True Traveler's GMT. Ming could have gone the extra mile to have the movement modified to make it that even for an extra $500, it would have been worth it and I would have picked up The Gilt. As I have both the 17.09 and 17.03 GMT, getting the 22.01 would serve no purpose for me.


yeah if they went full traveller then it would be much more easier to justify the premium over the 17.09, I'm wondering what secondary value of these are gonna be like. 

In a year from now, if I wanted to spend say 4K i'd rather have a 17.09 which means there might be very little premium for these


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

rooster1970 said:


> Basically, $1500 for the 22.01 dial.


and a glass back


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

golffoxtrot said:


> yeah if they went full traveller then it would be much more easier to justify the premium over the 17.09, I'm wondering what secondary value of these are gonna be like.
> 
> In a year from now, if I wanted to spend say 4K i'd rather have a 17.09 which means there might be very little premium for these


It's amazing the mental gymnastics required to justify this statement in your head. Just because YOU don't like a watch, doesn't mean the rest of the world all of a sudden shares your opinion. I don't think a Rolex Sub is worth over retail, does that make that magically factual in the real world?


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> and a glass back


In the last 25 years more and more watch houses have been/are producing models with glass backs so the wearer can view the movements. Before that, only a few high end models. Apart from the water resistance limitation as a result of this in many cases (excuse the pun that was intended), my subjective view is that IMHO, there are not really necessary. If one is new to watch collecting or horology or mechanical manual/automatic watch wearing, I can understand that one may want a watch where you can see the movement. Rolex movements have improved in recent years as they need to to keep up with the requirements of the customer as well be ahead of their competition BUT they do not produce their models with see through case backs. They do not need to as those who know Rolex movements from articles etc., understand the standard and quality they are. This reputation has been gained over time. This statement does not take into account whether or not their price tags are justified by their movements. That is a separate debate. Sellita have come along way to be equal to Swatch Group's exclusive ETA. Not discrediting Sellita or ETA or any other of the same ilk, as these movements are rather good and adapable as well as universally serviceable etc., including reasonable price point for standard/quality and craftsmanship BUT they are not out of the ordinary in today wrist watch production so, is there really a need to display the movements? Again, IMHO only - No!. Should one display a Vacheron Constantin, Patek Phillipe or a A. Lange Sohne movement? One does not have to BUT there are so individual and unique that appreciation of the intricate components, the time and effort to make these justifies IMHO displaying them. Also, it helps when you are paying a fortune for these. H. Moser is a super watch house with such modest looking dials. The quality of case craftsmanship and internal movements give The Holy Trinity and more a knock on the head. Their watches mask the excellence under the dial and in the movement. It adds mysticism and modesty the brand!

I can rattle on and on with this. There are arguments for and against BUT one aspect I can say is for most watches under $5,000 do not let a glass back to view the movement of the watch be the deciding factor for buying a watch. There is more to watch buying than that! IMHO, what Omega have done with the 8900 series Caliber movement with COSC, METAS, 25000 Guass and twin barrel specifications - it is so nice to be able to see that movement! So, folks continue on your watch journey as mine has been never-ending for over 45 years now since I received a JLC Club in 18kt gold! Bitten by The Bug of watch collecting? If not, you probably will! So, welcome to The Jungle Peeps!


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

watches4ever said:


> lots of words about not caring about see-through backings for movements


Since Ming went through the effort of decorating the movement, I personally like that they made it so you can see it. When brands make no effort to decorate and still put sapphire on the back, that's where I see no point. I get that it adds a little thickness, but it gives me the opportunity to fully appreciate the effort that went into making the watch. Is it to the level of the extreme high horology watches? Nah, but it's still pretty good. This is no base movement.


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## michael8238 (Sep 13, 2015)

Cleverbs said:


> It's amazing the mental gymnastics required to justify this statement in your head. Just because YOU don't like a watch, doesn't mean the rest of the world all of a sudden shares your opinion. I don't think a Rolex Sub is worth over retail, does that make that magically factual in the real world?


Agreed.
Personally I don't even care if it's a GMT or not.
I just like the dial construction, the colorway, and the 'scientific dial' look, the GMT ring (and personally I quite like the font) adds some technical details I always like and found some prior Ming models missing.
The GMT part of this watch is not the main theme to me. It's good to have a GMT reading there, but the execution is also subtle enough that I can totally see the watch as a time only.


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## dtwc (10 mo ago)

Hey guys, a new member here! 

I'm looking to purchase my first Ming, and I'm looking at the 27.02 in the aftermarket. I'm not a big watch collector but I do have a few pieces of Rolex and Cartier. The reason why I'm attracted to Ming is because of the design language (sadly very late to the party!). Could I get some advice if 27.02 should be the first Ming that I go for, or are there any other recommendations?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

dtwc said:


> Could I get some advice if 27.02 should be the first Ming that I go for, or are there any other recommendations?


Not sure what advise someone could give you other than....buy what you like.


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## horolo_gy (Mar 27, 2019)

dtwc said:


> Hey guys, a new member here!
> 
> I'm looking to purchase my first Ming, and I'm looking at the 27.02 in the aftermarket. I'm not a big watch collector but I do have a few pieces of Rolex and Cartier. The reason why I'm attracted to Ming is because of the design language (sadly very late to the party!). Could I get some advice if 27.02 should be the first Ming that I go for, or are there any other recommendations?


I think the 27.02 is quintessential Ming. It's great playing with lights and building depth within the minimalist design. Plus, it wears great on wrist.

If you like It, it's a great first Ming IMO.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Has anyone recently received a 17.09? I’m in the March allocation and so far it’s been really quiet around here with less than a week to go,


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Mine will be arriving next week after I have made payment. I had initially thought it should arrive by end March but when I checked the batch details I realised it actually stated March-early April. Maybe yours may be in the tailend of the delivery schedule.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Raindrops said:


> Mine will be arriving next week after I have made payment. I had initially thought it should arrive by end March but when I checked the batch details I realised it actually stated March-early April. Maybe yours may be in the tailend of the delivery schedule.


Yes, the last email added the “early April” terminology but honestly I thought that was to cover them from the shipping timeline…guess not. i was more worried since there had been virtually no reports of anyone getting one in weeks which seemed odd if they were working on at least getting some out.


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## arpanlaha (May 27, 2021)

I have watch 38XX and just got the email a couple of days back.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

arpanlaha said:


> I have watch 38XX and just got the email a couple of days back.


Thanks for the details! Not good news as I had hoped they were working on orders higher than that. Based on a past post around 3.5 weeks ago from another member, this would mean they have barely done 200 units in that timeframe and Batch #1 has around 700 units in it. If they continue at this rate, Batch #1 won't be finished for several months.


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## arpanlaha (May 27, 2021)

christianj said:


> Thanks for the details! Not good news as I had hoped they were working on orders higher than that. Based on a past post around 3.5 weeks ago from another member, this would mean they have barely done 200 units in that timeframe and Batch #1 has around 700 units in it. If they continue at this rate, Batch #1 won't be finished for several months.


Yeah, hopefully it's just backloaded


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Cleverbs said:


> It's amazing the mental gymnastics required to justify this statement in your head. Just because YOU don't like a watch, doesn't mean the rest of the world all of a sudden shares your opinion. I don't think a Rolex Sub is worth over retail, does that make that magically factual in the real world?


its a bit comical that you see mental gynmnastics where there is none. As we all know, factually this release did not sell as fast as the 17.09. So that's all we know right now about "the rest of the world"

as I mentioned in another post, will be intersting to see what the resales are a year from now. pretty objective way to look at it I think. 

Not sure what your rolex sub example has to do with anything here, but maybe that's where the mental gymanastics come in


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

yeah first get what you like, whats your budget




dtwc said:


> Hey guys, a new member here!
> 
> I'm looking to purchase my first Ming, and I'm looking at the 27.02 in the aftermarket. I'm not a big watch collector but I do have a few pieces of Rolex and Cartier. The reason why I'm attracted to Ming is because of the design language (sadly very late to the party!). Could I get some advice if 27.02 should be the first Ming that I go for, or are there any other recommendations?


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

horolo_gy said:


> I think it's the design of this particular model. It doesn't seem to work. Doesn't feel special the way other mings do. Too busy, weird colors, weird dial proportions...


agree totally, I've seen similar comments elsewhere. lacks purity that is inherent to bascially all of MING's other designs. I guess if he goes this way for the future then it will be the new "normal", but I wonder if this will just be the ugly duckling. 

I had this happen to me with a Zelos once, when they did Horizon Field, something a little new and a little different direction than previous, and I bought in, but then it didn't even sell out, turns out the zelos customer base really just wanted mostly divers and it took me like 10 months to offload it at a slight loss, even BNIB


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Sometimes all it needs is a different strap!


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

I just received my 17.09 today. Was in for a surprise that DHL does delivery on a Sunday and my delivery estimate was for 30th March. It took only 3 days since I received notification of DHL pick up from Ming.

I think it will be pretty soon for everyone else who are waiting. Ming was dead quiet before notifying my watch was in QC stage but from that point it was super fast and very well communicated.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@downunder888 Do you mind sharing first two digits of your order number? Was it 38xx?


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Yes. My order is 38xx. 

I notice the serial number on the case back. I thought they didnt do serial number. Wonder if this would give us some idea of how many watches are being made in total. Mine is in the 0028xx.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

downunder888 said:


> Yes. My order is 38xx.
> 
> I notice the serial number on the case back. I thought they didnt do serial number. Wonder if this would give us some idea of how many watches are being made in total. Mine is in the 0028xx.


I've seen guesses of the 17.09 in the 2-3k range, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's higher given the demand on the brand. I'd be curious to see the actual numbers since it was the first time they did the unlimited quantity thing.


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Received mine too on Monday. Loving the simplicity of the design and no regret on choosing the burgundy. 
And my order number is 2017-40xx 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

It is a beauty with its original JR strap too… 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

All of us still waiting on April 1 for our March 17.09 allocation shipping notice.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

jasonmatthew said:


> It is a beauty with its original JR strap too…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is gorgeous!! Congrats.


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

As you can tell below; I have exhausted all strap options for both of my Mings 17.09 on the left and right 17.03 GMT Titanium. All of these can be changed quickly.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

watches4ever said:


> As you can tell below; I have exhausted all strap options for both of my Mings 17.09 on the left and right 17.03 GMT Titanium. All of these can be changed quickly.
> View attachment 16536468
> 
> View attachment 16536467


Love the AW style straps. If you don’t mind, where are they from?


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

monsters said:


> Love the AW style straps. If you don’t mind, where are they from?


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

christianj said:


> All of us still waiting on April 1 for our March 17.09 allocation shipping notice.
> 
> View attachment 16535776


I was in the same boat. Just got mine few days ago. It will be there and it will be worth the wait. Just have the get the straps broken in. Little tough at the beginning.


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

The burgundy is so beautiful outdoor, i bet the blue version will be even more vibrant. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

You guys are not making my wait for the 22.01 any easier. 9 months to go!


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> You guys are not making my wait for the 22.01 any easier. 9 months to go!


I waited 11months for the 17.09 if that makes you feel any better. Still another 4, 5 months to go for the 37.05


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

downunder888 said:


> I waited 11months for the 17.09 if that makes you feel any better. Still another 4, 5 months to go for the 37.05


It does not, but I appreciate the sentiment. I'm waiting longer for a Ming than I did for my Rolex! haha


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> It does not, but I appreciate the sentiment. I'm waiting longer for a Ming than I did for my Rolex! haha


I put my name down for a pepsi 3 years ago and my name still hasnt come up. I dont think it ever will lol


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

downunder888 said:


> I put my name down for a pepsi 3 years ago and my name still hasnt come up. I dont think it ever will lol


Ugh that sucks. Luckily there's lots of awesome dive watches getting released to get instead of playing that game.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> Ugh that sucks. Luckily there's lots of awesome dive watches getting released to get instead of playing that game.


 It does. I wouldnt worry about it tho. Plenty of other watches I can buy. I dont mind the wait like Ming, as lonh as I know I am getting one haha


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

downunder888 said:


> It does. I wouldnt worry about it tho. Plenty of other watches I can buy. I dont mind the wait like Ming, as lonh as I know I am getting one haha


Agreed. I was surprised by how painless the reserve/checkout process was, and that their website didn't lag at all. And yeah, waiting for something you know you'll get for sure is way better than being on a waiting list and hoping for "the call"... Maybe it's because I already got the Rolex I wanted, but the appeal of another just isn't there.


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Is Ming Monday a thing here? 
This is the one that started it all for me…
Then the 17.09 and now i must refrain myself from any Ming while waiting for my Moonphase.
Unless it is another Ming Diver🫣 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> Agreed. I was surprised by how painless the reserve/checkout process was, and that their website didn't lag at all. And yeah, waiting for something you know you'll get for sure is way better than being on a waiting list and hoping for "the call"... Maybe it's because I already got the Rolex I wanted, but the appeal of another just isn't there.


I think Ming has done enough releases to learn and develop their purchasing process. Really like the new update with cart hold. I missed out in the past without the cart hold and couldnt get the order processed fast enough.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

jasonmatthew said:


> Is Ming Monday a thing here?
> This is the one that started it all for me…
> Then the 17.09 and now i must refrain myself from any Ming while waiting for my Moonphase.
> Unless it is another Ming Diver🫣
> ...


Definitely Ming Monday mate 😆😆


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

i got Ming replied 2 days ago. my 17.09 payment request email will send to me by end of April or beginning of May.

i am happy with their sincere reply so i really got nothing to complain about it.

actually all nice things take time, be it the painting, art piece, nice investment...etc.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cocas said:


> i got Ming replied 2 days ago. my 17.09 payment request email will send to me by end of April or beginning of May.
> 
> i am happy with their sincere reply so i really got nothing to complain about it.
> 
> actually all nice things take time, be it the painting, art piece, nice investment...etc.


Confused! Was April/May the original timing you had been given when they sent the last email update? Or has your timing been pushed back?


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Cocas said:


> i got Ming replied 2 days ago. my 17.09 payment request email will send to me by end of April or beginning of May.
> 
> i am happy with their sincere reply so i really got nothing to complain about it.
> 
> actually all nice things take time, be it the painting, art piece, nice investment...etc.


Their customer service team is fantastic. I wrote them inquiring about the updated universal bracelet and deployant clasp plans and got real answers in response.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> Their customer service team is fantastic. I wrote them inquiring about the updated universal bracelet and deployant clasp plans and got real answers in response.


Do you mind sharing what the plan is?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cleverbs said:


> Their customer service team is fantastic.


Sadly I have found the opposite to be true. They don't seem to reply to PMs on IG. How exactly did you contact them? Other small independents like Anordain and Kurono Tokyo have replied almost immediately to any inquiries but Ming so far has ghosted me.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> Sadly I have found the opposite to be true. They don't seem to reply to PMs on IG. How exactly did you contact them? Other small independents like Anordain and Kurono Tokyo have replied almost immediately to any inquiries but Ming so far has ghosted me.


Use the contact form on their website, I got a response in 1 business day or so.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

downunder888 said:


> Do you mind sharing what the plan is?


No plans for a deployant clasp, but they're evaluating designs and will release one if they find one they're happy with. The new keeperless buckle is their current standard.

Universal bracelet is planned for Q3 with slim butterfly clasp (similar to the previous universal bracelet, maybe the exact same?), no microadjustments or on the fly adjustments.


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Cleverbs said:


> No plans for a deployant clasp, but they're evaluating designs and will release one if they find one they're happy with. The new keeperless buckle is their current standard.
> 
> Universal bracelet is planned for Q3 with slim butterfly clasp (similar to the previous universal bracelet, maybe the exact same?), no microadjustments or on the fly adjustments.


I really prefer the conventional strap design. The one with the tail end of the strap showing, especially so when it shows a little pop of contrast colour.
And for the bracelet, as i already own the discontinued one, i was hoping they come out with a brand new design, different enough for me to consider buying another one to mix and match.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Threw a brown strap on my blue 17.09 - I think I like it even more than the OEM strap











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Threw a brown strap on my blue 17.09 - I think I like it even more than the OEM strap


Congratulations on the first shot to date that makes me question my burgandy order. What a stunner!


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

christianj said:


> Sadly I have found the opposite to be true. They don't seem to reply to PMs on IG. How exactly did you contact them? Other small independents like Anordain and Kurono Tokyo have replied almost immediately to any inquiries but Ming so far has ghosted me.


Use the email contact form. I had almost immediate and very courteous replies from them. IG PM’s should be ignored these days. Too many scam PM’s from hacked accounts. I know - mine got hacked.


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## 9101.21 (Jul 18, 2013)

christianj said:


> Sadly I have found the opposite to be true. They don't seem to reply to PMs on IG. How exactly did you contact them? Other small independents like Anordain and Kurono Tokyo have replied almost immediately to any inquiries but Ming so far has ghosted me.


IG/social media in general is a mess, and there's a gathering movement to avoid it, to use only when it's an unavoidable evil. Thus, as hub6152 said, use email. 

Straight from the Ming folks: "From 2022, we are also going to revise the way we approach social media. To make responses more personal and to ensure we don’t miss anything intended for us but left only in comments or direct messages; please email us at [email protected] - this allows us to have your buying and communication history on hand. Given we are still a very small team, this means resources will be allocated accordingly and we will be less active on social media; the best way to stay up to date with significant news is always going to be via this mailing list." [ see Looking to 2022: Finally, the end of 2021 ]


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

9101.21 said:


> Straight from the Ming folks: "From 2022, we are also going to revise the way we approach social media. To make responses more personal and to ensure we don’t miss anything intended for us but left only in comments or direct messages; please email us at [email protected] - this allows us to have your buying and communication history on hand. Given we are still a very small team, this means resources will be allocated accordingly and we will be less active on social media; the best way to stay up to date with significant news is always going to be via this mailing list." [ see Looking to 2022: Finally, the end of 2021 ]


Thanks for this info! Even though everyone here seems to think IG PM is a mess....it still seems to be the quickest and preferred way to get an answer out of most brands since that is how they engage with their fans/owners. I assume since Ming had some bad press and some haters (especially on IG) based on how they handled the Massena x Ming hand debacle they have decided to go old school and use emails.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

christianj said:


> Thanks for this info! Even though everyone here seems to think IG PM is a mess....it still seems to be the quickest and preferred way to get an answer out of most brands since that is how they engage with their fans/owners. I assume since Ming had some bad press and some haters (especially on IG) based on how they handled the Massena x Ming hand debacle they have decided to go old school and use emails.


Do you think Audemars Piguet responds to IG DM’s? Can you imagine how many DM’s Ming get on IG? Have you ever tried to run a business using IG as a communication channel. It’s impossible to organise messages from people the way email can be organised. That’s why email is the proper option.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Comment deleted to avoid confrontation and since everyone here knows best.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

i actually prefer to the email communications with the items purchase.

especially, email IP address is easily traced for better fraud prevention.


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## Peeterwatch (9 mo ago)

Im so excited about receiving my 20.11 by the end of june.

Sadly I saw very little excitement at launch for this watch I do agree its very expensive, definitely for the movement they chose but its truly my dream watch.

I hope the skeletonisation and the chessboard will be as amazing in person as on pictures.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

christianj said:


> Comment deleted to avoid confrontation and since everyone here knows best.


In a completely non confrontational and merely informative manner I will tell you that I ran my companies IG product promotions and DM is nothing more than instant messaging that from any specific individual can very quickly disappear down off the screen when more DM’s, or mentions or tags, are used by followers. That simply doesn’t happen with email which can be organised by the email client into far more business like use. So I know from experience.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Peeterwatch said:


> Im so excited about receiving my 20.11 by the end of june.
> 
> Sadly I saw very little excitement at launch for this watch I do agree its very expensive, definitely for the movement they chose but its truly my dream watch.
> 
> I hope the skeletonisation and the chessboard will be as amazing in person as on pictures.


It's a gorgeous watch, I'm looking forward to some in hand shots of some of these upcoming watches.... even if they'll just make me more anxious for my 22.01 to come.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

hub6152 said:


> In a completely non confrontational and merely informative manner I will tell you that I ran my companies IG product promotions and DM is nothing more than instant messaging that from any specific individual can very quickly disappear down off the screen when more DM’s, or mentions or tags, are used by followers. That simply doesn’t happen with email which can be organised by the email client into far more business like use. So I know from experience.


I am not arguing against that. What I am saying is that for a brand like Ming which has essentially built their existence off the internet and social media and does all of their sales on the internet one would expect them to be more engaging and responsive on those mediums. If old school companies like Rolex, AP and PP aren't the most savvy or engaging....I get it. I am finished discussing this topic in this thread.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> I am not arguing against that. What I am saying is that for a brand like Ming which has essentially built their existence off the internet and social media and does all of their sales on the internet one would expect them to be more engaging and responsive on those mediums. If old school companies like Rolex, AP and PP aren't the most savvy or engaging....I get it. I am not debating the other aspects you mention.


But why? It's arguably just as easy to email them or use their website form to contact them, and it's a much more personal method of communication. The chaos of tracking social media is a pain for anyone. If they're super responsive to their preferred method of communication, what difference does it make?


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

christianj said:


> Thanks for this info! Even though everyone here seems to think IG PM is a mess....it still seems to be the quickest and preferred way to get an answer out of most brands since that is how they engage with their fans/owners. I assume since Ming had some bad press and some haters (especially on IG) based on how they handled the Massena x Ming hand debacle they have decided to go old school and use emails.


The social media response would either be from Ming Thein himself or the lady they hired as the customer experience person who responds to emails. I think they lost the last lady due to the amount of hate email/IG/etc so they decided to consolidate their response and social media presence. I agree with you other young brands who are willing to spend the time and effort can capitalize on social media, but MIng have chosen how to best deploy their resources. We'll just have to sit back and enjoy our watches while this plays out.


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

FYI, for those still waiting for their 17.09 - I was in the "early April" cohort per prior email, but the Ming team told me a few days ago that it would be at another 10 - 14 days before they can ship...so late April...


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

disco_nug said:


> FYI, for those still waiting for their 17.09 - I was in the "early April" cohort per prior email, but the Ming team told me a few days ago that it would be at another 10 - 14 days before they can ship...so late April...


I’m in the March Blue dial 17.09 group (about 150 units before the end of the group) and so far total silence from Ming…..so it means they aren’t even 75% done with the first batch.


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## JRat (Jul 18, 2021)

watchcrank_tx said:


> Congratulations on the first shot to date that makes me question my burgandy order. What a stunner!


Another one to nudge you over the edge..?


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## ACK3 (Jun 11, 2021)

jasonmatthew said:


> Received mine too on Monday. Loving the simplicity of the design and no regret on choosing the burgundy.
> And my order number is 2017-40xx
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My order number is 40xx also but I have still to receive an email or notification.Communication is clearly lacking.


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Hmm… i got the email requesting to pay for the balance on 23/3/22. And watch arrived 4days later. 
I am from Kuala Lumpur by the way. But i dont think it matters because Ming ship according to order number.
And my number is <4030

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

The earlier email estimated that the delivery of the first batch will be done by end of March. Thats is 669 units of 17.09. 
And then the later email at mid March this year amended and delayed the estimates of delivery of first batch until early April instead of end of March. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ACK3 (Jun 11, 2021)

jasonmatthew said:


> Hmm… i got the email requesting to pay for the balance on 23/3/22. And watch arrived 4days later.
> I am from Kuala Lumpur by the way. But i dont think it matters because Ming ship according to order number.
> And my number is <4030
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know what you mean. Mine is also the Burgundy version but the last email I got was the one with the update.

We'll just have to have a bit more I guess.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

If there are still people in the 40xx range that have heard nothing, then they are even worse off than I thought. This would mean they have delivered about 50% of the first batch. Let’s also not forget we are in early April now, so even with the delay they mentioned they are clearly running behind.

I never understand why there are always delays in the first batches since they’ve had 1 year to start production on these and one would think they could have produced most of the units in the first batch before they even started shipping. 

At the current rate we might be lucky if the first batch is delayed by a month and who knows what that means for the later batches considering there are at least 1500 units in the total run and so far they’ve shipped around 350 units.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

christianj said:


> If there are still people in the 40xx range that have heard nothing, then they are even worse off than I thought. This would mean they have delivered about 50% of the first batch. Let’s also not forget we are in early April now, so even with the delay they mentioned they are clearly running behind.
> 
> I never understand why there are always delays in the first batches since they’ve had 1 year to start production on these and one would think they could have produced most of the units in the first batch before they even started shipping.
> 
> At the current rate we might be lucky if the first batch is delayed by a month and who knows what that means for the later batches considering there are at least 1500 units in the total run and so far they’ve shipped around 350 units.


Here we go and you wonder why my answers are sometimes somewhat abrupt! One small delay in the supply chain can derail the whole process. Covid is still a problem in many countries, enough that it only needs a few of the workers in one of the smaller suppliers to be off sick to cause a huge disruption. 

My brand new Arnold developed a fault and had to go back to Switzerland to be fixed. 4 months later it might be back at the end of April. 

My Czapek I paid for in October is supposed to be delivered this month or maybe next month but I’m hearing rumours it’s likely to be delayed by another few months as well. It is what it is. What can I do? Nothing - is exactly what I do, but just be quietly patient.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@hub6152 It's like you have some sort of tracking on my posts so you can immediately make some comment. I'm so over this...find someone else to hack on for goodness sake. This is a post about Ming and members trying to figure out when they are going to get their watches.......what do I care about your Arnold and Czapek...am I mentioning every brand I own that I have had issues with from delays to repairs? What is the point? Clearly there are people still waiting and I'm sorry if you are bothered by people talking about it. Move on! Do you even own a Ming and/or waiting on a piece or just here to hack on others? We all know you are the WUS self declared expert on all things brands, PR and customer engagement since you supposedly ran Marketing somewhere! I'm simply stating facts on the delivery situation of the 17.09 and I don't see a problem with that since a ton of people are waiting. Go find the next person to troll!


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

talking about waiting for dearest watch...

i have been waiting for getting a Rolex from AD(in the so called 'waiting list') for more than 3 years already and still no news as of now


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## Spartan4Life (Nov 15, 2017)

I'm on the waiting list for the 17.09 blue version. Does anyone have any experience with actually being able to get a Ming off the wait list? After seeing pictures of the actual watch I'm hopeful I can get one.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

christianj said:


> @hub6152 It's like you have some sort of tracking on my posts so you can immediately make some comment. I'm so over this...find someone else to hack on for goodness sake. This is a post about Ming and members trying to figure out when they are going to get their watches.......what do I care about your Arnold and Czapek...am I mentioning every brand I own that I have had issues with from delays to repairs? What is the point? Clearly there are people still waiting and I'm sorry if you are bothered by people talking about it. Move on! Do you even own a Ming and/or waiting on a piece or just here to hack on others? We all know you are the WUS self declared expert on all things brands, PR and customer engagement since you supposedly ran Marketing somewhere! I'm simply stating facts on the delivery situation of the 17.09 and I don't see a problem with that since a ton of people are waiting. Go find the next person to troll!


Mmmmm let me see. I’ll answer this bit by bit and meanwhile here’s my own Ming just to show I actually do have a perfectly legitimate reason to post here. 










Now then - I certainly am not tracking your posts lol. I use Tapatalk and am subscribed to this thread as a Ming owner so it’s not all about you. 

I merely mentioned my own issues with delays and waiting times to say that even though I could I’m not complaining about it because complaining doesn’t change anything, and I’m not in the least bit upset if you care about them or not. Unless of course all you wanted was a sympathetic ear from others. 

As for my being a “self declared expert”? If you mean that as a collector of some 20 years, employed within a watch related retail business for the last 5 years in the watch capital that Hong Kong still is and part of my job is running the company IG page then yes I do know what I’m talking about, especially when it comes to the differences in responding to customers via social media or email. 

I’m just wondering what the point of your complaining posts actually are?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Spartan4Life said:


> I'm on the waiting list for the 17.09 blue version. Does anyone have any experience with actually being able to get a Ming off the wait list?


I don't think there have been any reports (that I can remember) of anyone getting a watch because they had signed up for the model on the waitlist on the Ming website. I would think the only way that this would work is if they have extra materials available after making the pre-ordered watches or if someone backs out of an order. Hopefully someone will be lucky to get one off the waitlist in the future.


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## Spartan4Life (Nov 15, 2017)

christianj said:


> I don't think there have been any reports (that I can remember) of anyone getting a watch because they had signed up for the model on the waitlist on the Ming website. I would think the only way that this would work is if they have extra materials available after making the pre-ordered watches or if someone backs out of an order. Hopefully someone will be lucky to get one off the waitlist in the future.


Well that's a bit of a bummer but it makes sense. Here's hoping someone has a change of heart


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Spartan4Life said:


> Well that's a bit of a bummer but it makes sense. Here's hoping someone has a change of heart


Never hurts to try. 

In the meantime, just watch for the next release in the next 3-6 months and be ready to purchase in the initial window (if it's something you like).


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

christianj said:


> I never understand why there are always delays in the first batches since they’ve had 1 year to start production on these and one would think they could have produced most of the units in the first batch before they even started shipping.


I have no intention of being confrontational - I realize that waiting is hard; I've waited too, for Mings and plenty of other watches. And yes, they've had a year. But seriously, take a look around you - in the past year we've had two of the most severe waves to date of a global pandemic. Supply chains are snarled everywhere, in watches and well beyond. Manufactures in Switzerland experienced multiple shutdowns, and have been or are working at reduced capacity. And not to mention that the Swiss have a reputation for working slowly even in the best of times - I know quite a number of folks who are in "the industry" or are working with Swiss suppliers on their own projects. They'll routinely quote you three months when they mean six or nine or more. And if you've talked to anyone who's been into independent watches for a while, you'll find abundant stories of people who have waited months or even years after a projected delivery date.

I don't say the above as a way of excusing it. But context matters - rather than thinking "they've had 1 year," I actually find it quite impressive they've been able to stick to their schedule as closely as they have, especially given everything else that's happened (and not to mention those few months where they had to diagnose/fix the movement issues, order new components, and upgrade the existing pieces they had already produced). This is by far their biggest run of watches to date. Plenty of people who were quoted March got their watches in March. Yours may be delayed, but it doesn't seem like it's far off, and I honestly still find that impressive. Their suppliers aren't dawdling around, trust me.

I received my 17.09 recently; it's stunning. It'll be worth the wait.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

My sympathies for those who 17.09 deliveries are being delayed. I am glad I received mine in time though another watch from another independent/microbrand I have ordered has its delivery delayed. Such things do happen in today’s context with Covid (and other events) potentially disrupting supply chains.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Delays are a risk in production even during normal times. On the bright side: You're still guaranteed a highly sought after watch (second hand prices are already double retail), as opposed to brands like Rolex where you could wait for years and never get "the call" to even have a chance to purchase one.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Peeterwatch said:


> Im so excited about receiving my 20.11 by the end of june.
> 
> Sadly I saw very little excitement at launch for this watch I do agree its very expensive, definitely for the movement they chose but its truly my dream watch.
> 
> I hope the skeletonisation and the chessboard will be as amazing in person as on pictures.


I think there was excitement - it sold out in 2 minutes and got a glowing preview on Hodinkee. But there just aren’t many of them so fewer people post about it, and since it’s been in production for so long and not out yet most people probably forgot it existed!

It’s expensive but I mean it’s the same base movement used by the SE x Kari Voutilainen watch - and that watch is much more expensive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I think there was excitement - it sold out in 2 minutes and got a glowing preview on Hodinkee. But there just aren’t many of them so fewer people post about it, and since it’s been in production for so long and not out yet most people probably forgot it existed!
> 
> It’s expensive but I mean it’s the same base movement used by the SE x Kari Voutilainen watch - and that watch is much more expensive.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this. Every watch site covered it, Kyoto sold out in minutes and Gilt sold out in 30 minutes despite increased quantities from all prior launches (except 17.09), and people are just not talking about it much right now because it's 10 months away. Once people get them in hand, there will be lots of posts and lots of questions... and people lamenting missing out on the initial launch.


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## Pieterwatch (9 mo ago)

Spartan4Life said:


> Well that's a bit of a bummer but it makes sense. Here's hoping someone has a change of heart


If youre ever looking for a decent priced fully new one after a while, hit me up. I got the 17.09 blue (that is about to arrive) just so I could get on the list of existing customers for a chessboard dial watch (20.11). Im probably going to sell it but id rather sell it to someone that loves the watch at a reasonable price than flip it for crazy returns. At that point we can ofcourse do it through some legitimate site of your liking.


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## Pieterwatch (9 mo ago)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I think there was excitement - it sold out in 2 minutes and got a glowing preview on Hodinkee. But there just aren’t many of them so fewer people post about it, and since it’s been in production for so long and not out yet most people probably forgot it existed!
> 
> It’s expensive but I mean it’s the same base movement used by the SE x Kari Voutilainen watch - and that watch is much more expensive.
> 
> ...


Didnt know it sold out that fast, where did you get that info? 
I know that officialy the 20.01 series 2 was sold out "immediately" but then I got a mail weeks later that I could get it. Didnt in the end because of the 35,000 CHF price tag. More than double the 20.11 and in my opinion a much less beautiful watch.

If I would have had the opportunity to get my hands on the orginal 20.01, 19.03 ghost or the 17.09 WCS blue (just found out this exists and it blows my mind how amazing it looks) it would have been a different story. Sadly theyre probably in collectors hands that will never let them go. Which is the way its supposed to be but still sad for me.


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

17.09 WCS edition.
And i also heard there are white dial for 17.09…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

2021 MING 17.09 WCS Edition


Instruction Video MING 17.09 Operating Instructions from MING on Vimeo. Description Version 2.0 The 17.09 is an evolved daily wearer with new, extra functionality and overall design updates. For the first time, we bring laser-etched, lume-filled sapphire to our entry level watch: the indices...




ming.watch





The link to see more of the 17.09 WCS


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Pieterwatch said:


> Didnt in the end because of the 35,000 CHF price tag. More than double the 20.11 and in my opinion a much less beautiful watch.


I think the 20.01's price tag reflects the choice of movement more than the design. The Agengraphe movement is quite extraordinary, and as far as I know the 20.01 is the most "affordable" way to get this movement. Moser and Singer use the same architecture at slightly higher price points.


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## Peeterwatch (9 mo ago)

jasonmatthew said:


> 2021 MING 17.09 WCS Edition
> 
> 
> Instruction Video MING 17.09 Operating Instructions from MING on Vimeo. Description Version 2.0 The 17.09 is an evolved daily wearer with new, extra functionality and overall design updates. For the first time, we bring laser-etched, lume-filled sapphire to our entry level watch: the indices...
> ...


Sadly no clue how many were made


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## Peeterwatch (9 mo ago)

singularityseven said:


> I think the 20.01's price tag reflects the choice of movement more than the design. The Agengraphe movement is quite extraordinary, and as far as I know the 20.01 is the most "affordable" way to get this movement. Moser and Singer use the same architecture at slightly higher price points.


True, id like to know how much they asked for the first 20.01. that ones design is so different from all the other Ming watches and just amazing.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

When was this 17.09 WCS Edition released? I don’t ever remember seeing or hearing anything about it. Odd that on the page for the Cave Projects that it’s sort of buried at the bottom and not with all the other 2021 projects.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Peeterwatch said:


> True, id like to know how much they asked for the first 20.01. that ones design is so different from all the other Ming watches and just amazing.


That one was indeed a beauty!

The only one I've "seen in the wild" is on Sumei Shum's IG page:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CLWaYUVg0mH/



christianj said:


> When was this 17.09 WCS Edition released? I don’t ever remember seeing or hearing anything about it.


Given that it is listed as a SPC and a collab with Watch Club Society, I think it was a private run.


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## Pieterwatch (9 mo ago)

christianj said:


> When was this 17.09 WCS Edition released? I don’t ever remember seeing or hearing anything about it.





singularityseven said:


> That one was indeed a beauty!
> 
> The only one I've "seen in the wild" is on Sumei Shum's IG page:
> 
> ...


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

jasonmatthew said:


> 17.09 WCS edition.
> And i also heard there are white dial for 17.09…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's very cool but tbh I don't know why I still follow this thread/Ming's releases, it's not like I can buy any of the watches.


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## 9101.21 (Jul 18, 2013)

Peeterwatch said:


> Sadly no clue how many were made


The pics of the caseback show "ONE OF 50" engraved. 

Seems there's latitude for the 17.09 to have additional runs since due to the time-limited ordering period, the total number is fuzzy. One gets the sense that if Ming did this with a more quantity-defined watch like, say, the 27.0x, the principals' integrity might be questioned. Then again, they could simply make additional batches of anything and designate them SPC, so there's a nice loophole.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

9101.21 said:


> The pics of the caseback show "ONE OF 50" engraved.
> 
> Seems there's latitude for the 17.09 to have additional runs since due to the time-limited ordering period, the total number is fuzzy. One gets the sense that if Ming did this with a more quantity-defined watch like, say, the 27.0x, the principals' integrity might be questioned. Then again, they could simply make additional batches of anything and designate them SPC, so there's a nice loophole.


I think it’s entirely up to Ming to decide what they do in their best interests as they are the ones that need to make the money and pay their suppliers and employees. Ming does not have to dance to anyone’s tune but themselves. As for the 27.0* that was a strictly limited run by the number of available base movements.


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## 9101.21 (Jul 18, 2013)

hub6152 said:


> I think it’s entirely up to Ming to decide what they do in their best interests as they are the ones that need to make the money and pay their suppliers and employees. Ming does not have to dance to anyone’s tune but themselves. As for the 27.0* that was a strictly limited run by the number of available base movements.


Hello hub6152, who's telling Ming to act against its own interests or dance to another's tune (unless it wants to)? Certainly not I; we're in alignment thinking Ming should do as it sees fit. My comment was addressing tangential talk about variants. 

As some reading this thread know, there are those who are unhappy about more 17.09 types coming to light when they thought Blue and Burgundy were the last. For example, the Massena 17.09s launched after B&B though they were delivered ahead--in hindsight a good thing for B&B owners!--and now there's the WCS 'submarine' edition. However, if we read carefully, Ming didn't say there would be no more 17.09s, only that those specific B&B variants would no longer be produced (MING 17.09: Pre-launch information). Thus, for all we know there could yet be a green or other-color-or-pattern 17.09 surfacing or to come, and that's totally Ming's call (however unlikely, if only because Ming wants to get on with the next designs; but for now it's not a closed case [hah!]). 

Regarding the 27-series, if Peseux 7001s became readily available, even if it wanted to Ming still won't make more 27s of any kind because it specifically announced the 27's permanent retirement (MING 27.01 and 27.02: Pre-launch information). This is where the integrity bit comes in, and my gut tells me Ming values its reputation. 

From your reaction, it looks like I should have used DMs for my previous comment, since someone lacking context could easily misread it. Seemed more convenient to put one reply on this thread though[!].


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

9101.21 said:


> Hello hub6152, who's telling Ming to act against its own interests or dance to another's tune (unless it wants to)? Certainly not I; we're in alignment thinking Ming should do as it sees fit. My comment was addressing tangential talk about variants.
> 
> As some reading this thread know, there are those who are unhappy about more 17.09 types coming to light when they thought Blue and Burgundy were the last. For example, the Massena 17.09s launched after B&B though they were delivered ahead--in hindsight a good thing for B&B owners!--and now there's the WCS 'submarine' edition. However, if we read carefully, Ming didn't say there would be no more 17.09s, only that those specific B&B variants would no longer be produced (MING 17.09: Pre-launch information). Thus, for all we know there could yet be a green or other-color-or-pattern 17.09 surfacing or to come, and that's totally Ming's call (however unlikely, if only because Ming wants to get on with the next designs; but for now it's not a closed case [hah!]).
> 
> ...


Oh lord - complete misunderstanding of your post. Yes you are absolutely right and I wasn’t properly read up on the 17.09’s. What I can say is, having met Ming personally, he is certainly not someone in this just for the money. He’s a very passionate watch collector in his own right and is the reason he even got into his photography career. So integrity abounds, and he’s a damn nice chap to boot!!


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## 9101.21 (Jul 18, 2013)

hub6152 said:


> Oh lord - complete misunderstanding of your post. Yes you are absolutely right and I wasn’t properly read up on the 17.09’s. What I can say is, having met Ming personally, he is certainly not someone in this just for the money. He’s a very passionate watch collector in his own right and is the reason he even got into his photography career. So integrity abounds, and he’s a damn nice chap to boot!!


Oh boy - you are a rather unpleasant person. Your stance isn't just sarcastic, it's caustic. Remember: watches are supposed to be fun, not toxic.

Before you got on my back and started haranguing me, noticing your HK flag I was considering sending you a DM to say hello and see if you'd like to meet to talk watches, including our apparent shared interest in and ownership of Ming watches. Good thing I didn't.

While I've not met MT personally, I don't have to to strongly doubt he (or his co-founders at HM) needs anyone to explain his career or defend him, let alone troll on his behalf.

It's worth noting that, again, we're aligned in belief, this time that MT isn't "in this just for the money." Otherwise, I wouldn't be here. << Incidentally, who's accusing MT of a cash grab, who thinks he's a lukewarm watch accumulator, and who [in the last few posts on this thread, anyway] says he's not nice or lacks integrity? For you to look my way would only confirm your complete misunderstanding of my posts. >> Obviously, we're better off steering clear of each other. I'll do my part by not engaging with you any further. 

To everyone, let's all get back to the original intention of this thread: learning more about and sharing our enjoyment of Ming watches.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

9101.21 said:


> Oh boy - you are a rather unpleasant person. Your stance isn't just sarcastic, it's caustic. Remember: watches are supposed to be fun, not toxic.
> 
> Before you got on my back and started haranguing me, noticing your HK flag I was considering sending you a DM to say hello and see if you'd like to meet to talk watches, including our apparent shared interest in and ownership of Ming watches. Good thing I didn't.
> 
> ...


OMG how on Earth did I just upset you? What was possibly unpleasant about my last comment? I was just casually mentioning what a good chap he is and I was very fortunate to have met him! And that was long before I even knew he was into watches. Jeez I’m absolutely not remotely getting on your back. And for those that don’t know who Ming actually is they might find that tidbit mildly interesting!


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I don’t know why but this thread has more touchy / defensive / argumentative / passive aggressive posts than any other thread I’ve seen. Yeesh! It’s like a cat fight in here! Let’s all just get along. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

MrBlahBlah said:


> I don’t know why but this thread has more touchy / defensive / argumentative / passive aggressive posts than any other thread I’ve seen. Yeesh! It’s like a cat fight in here! Let’s all just get along.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can you explain to me where my last reply to Mr 9101 was defensive, argumentative, touchy, trolling even etc! Because I’m at a total loss to understand why he appears to be so deeply offended as to go to the trouble of writing an essay all about it!!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

C'mon folks, you gotta balance all the conversation/debate with photographs of MING watches. It's the unspoken law of the land.


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## michael8238 (Sep 13, 2015)

singularityseven said:


> C'mon folks, you gotta balance all the conversation/debate with photographs of MING watches. It's the unspoken law of the land.


How big is your wrist if you don't mind me asking?
They sit beautifully on your wrist.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

michael8238 said:


> How big is your wrist if you don't mind me asking?
> They sit beautifully on your wrist.


Thank you! My wrist is 6.5"


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Anyone knows where is best to get curved straps for Ming beside delug? Delug has a few I like but the medium size is out of stock for those. TIA.


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## En_Nissen (Oct 10, 2018)

downunder888 said:


> Anyone knows where is best to get curved straps for Ming beside delug? Delug has a few I like but the medium size is out of stock for those. TIA.


 If you don't mind waiting, it costs around +10$ or something to order custom from delugs, then you can get the perfect length, leather and colour too.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

downunder888 said:


> Anyone knows where is best to get curved straps for Ming beside delug? Delug has a few I like but the medium size is out of stock for those. TIA.


Molequin made mine as custom because of the buckle size being 18mm


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## 9101.21 (Jul 18, 2013)

downunder888 said:


> Anyone knows where is best to get curved straps for Ming beside delug? Delug has a few I like but the medium size is out of stock for those. TIA.


Have you checked out Mill Hand Made by a guy named Rocky Mill out of Brisbane? His straps cost more than Delugs, but then the specs are highly customizable. 

I'm not yet a customer myself but I've seen a Mill strap for an acquaintance's Panerai, and the quality of the leather and the apparent workmanship were top-notch.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

downunder888 said:


> Anyone knows where is best to get curved straps for Ming beside delug? Delug has a few I like but the medium size is out of stock for those. TIA.


Formex sells some and also has a great deployant


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

En_Nissen said:


> If you don't mind waiting, it costs around +10$ or something to order custom from delugs, then you can get the perfect length, leather and colour too.


Why on earth I didnt think of this, I dont know haha. Thanks for the tip. 



hub6152 said:


> Molequin made mine as custom because of the buckle size being 18mm


Thanks, Hub. 



9101.21 said:


> Have you checked out Mill Hand Made by a guy named Rocky Mill out of Brisbane? His straps cost more than Delugs, but then the specs are highly customizable.
> 
> I'm not yet a customer myself but I've seen a Mill strap for an acquaintance's Panerai, and the quality of the leather and the apparent workmanship were top-notch.


Thanks, mate. This is actually great as I am from Aus as well. I really like their straps and might be getting a wallet from them as well while I am at it lol



Cleverbs said:


> Formex sells some and also has a great deployant


Thanks, Cleverbs. I actually came pass their site in the past. Just visited the site again and very impressed with the essence 39 deployant clasp. Do you own any of their clasps? Seems pretty good price for the quality and genius micro adjustment. Just not sure if it suits watches that are not sporty, looks wise.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

In-the-wild shot of the Moonphase 37.05 Prototype:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CcPuBhLrF_l/


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

downunder888 said:


> Thanks, Cleverbs. I actually came pass their site in the past. Just visited the site again and very impressed with the essence 39 deployant clasp. Do you own any of their clasps? Seems pretty good price for the quality and genius micro adjustment. Just not sure if it suits watches that are not sporty, looks wise.


I do not, but every review talks about how great and comfortable it is. The only thing that will show is the clasp, and I think it would look fine.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> In-the-wild shot of the Moonphase 37.05 Prototype:
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CcPuBhLrF_l/


Wow.. 37.05 looks great irl. Cant wait to get mine. Only 3, 4 months to go.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

downunder888 said:


> Wow.. 37.05 looks great irl. Cant wait to get mine. Only 3, 4 months to go.


Agree that it does indeed look great! Waiting on 17.09 now and then after that it will be the 37.05 for me as well.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Really hope you will get the 17.09 soon so you can enjoy it solely before 35.07 comes crashing the party haha

I gotta say, I really enjoy wearing the 17.09. Especially once the straps broken in. Its very comfortable. I havent worn anything else since its arrival.


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

watchcrank_tx said:


> Ming really need to fix the payment issues. I landed a 17.09 only on the second order day, calling the bank three times, and having someone on the line with me when the transaction went through. My bank is one of the largest in the US. Sure, I could pick up a card from a different bank; we all could. Or Ming could simply get a better payment service and save us all the hassle and frustration.
> 
> Far more than the feeding frenzy, to me the abysmal payment system is the biggest turnoff to Ming.


Ming's delightful payment system keeps up its greatest hits. The card I used to order the 17.09 is now being declined when I try to pay the balance today.  This time the transaction isn't even hitting the bank at all, so far as they or their verified-by-visa team can tell.

Silly to open a credit card account for a single purchase, but I've enough other obscure international transaction problems with the card I've been using that I suppose I will. Edit to add: other cases have been rare and easy enough to clear up with the bank though. Ming's payment system seems to be uniquely obscure.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

watchcrank_tx said:


> Silly to open a credit card account for a single purchase, but I've enough other obscure international transaction problems with the card I've been using that I suppose I will. Edit to add: other cases have been rare and easy enough to clear up with the bank though. Ming's payment system seems to be uniquely obscure.


I've been traveling in Asia with cards (issued in America) that I've used for the last 6-7 years, and none of them seem to work here anymore. It seems like these countries have moved forward with 3D Secure (which I believe is a two factor authentication protocol) and some American banks aren't interested in adopting them. The only card I've been able to use reliably while traveling is my Chase Visa, which I got after my cards were rejected during the 37.05 launch.


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

singularityseven said:


> I've been traveling in Asia with cards (issued in America) that I've used for the last 6-7 years, and none of them seem to work here anymore. It seems like these countries have moved forward with 3D Secure (which I believe is a two factor authentication protocol) and some American banks aren't interested in adopting them. The only card I've been able to use reliably while traveling is my Chase Visa, which I got after my cards were rejected during the 37.05 launch.


I came to that conclusion (3D Secure being the likely problem) too after researching the error code from the payment processor. If true, it means that things have changed with Ming since one year ago, when the problems with my card (BoA Visa) were 1) BoA's random and hair-trigger fraud detection attempts and 2) the payment processor running everything by "Verified by Visa," which was an entirely new stumbling block, both of which I was able to deal with eventually. 3D Secure is yet another new wrinkle.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

watchcrank_tx said:


> I came to that conclusion (3D Secure being the likely problem) too after researching the error code from the payment processor. If true, it means that things have changed with Ming since one year ago, when the problems with my card (BoA Visa) were 1) BoA's random and hair-trigger fraud detection attempts and 2) the payment processor running everything by "Verified by Visa," which was an entirely new stumbling block, both of which I was able to deal with eventually. 3D Secure is yet another new wrinkle.


Yep, my BoA cards that worked with MING in the past (18.01 & 17.09) didn't work on the recent drops (37.05 & 22.01). I believe they upgraded their checkout and payment system right before the 37.05.


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

I used a Chase Visa with no issues. Seems to be the one to use for this type of checkout.


----------



## paedipod (Feb 11, 2006)

Refocus on a watch….








My first MING, or at least first I have really worn. Looking forward to the moonphase


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

First spotting of a 20.11 in the wild..




__
http://instagr.am/p/CceovtxrE8y/


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I recently met one of the folks from the MING team, and he brought along some watches for me to check out - 19.CR, 19.01 Monolith and 18.01 H41 DLC. It is no secret that I'm a MING fanboy, so the whole experience was very "kind in candy store". I brought my camera along and grabbed a few quick photographs/clips.

Let's start with the most recent, and perhaps most special of the three: MING 19.CR Monopusher


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> First spotting of a 20.11 in the wild..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Epic


----------



## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I recently met one of the folks from the MING team, and he brought along some watches for me to check out - 19.CR, 19.01 Monolith and 18.01 H41 DLC. It is no secret that I'm a MING fanboy, so the whole experience was very "kind in candy store". I brought my camera along and grabbed a few quick photographs/clips.
> 
> Let's start with the most recent, and perhaps most special of the three: MING 19.CR Monopusher


Thanks for sharing - how thick does that one feel on your wrist? Anything more "mainstream you can compare it to?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

dgoldwatch said:


> Thanks for sharing - how thick does that one feel on your wrist? Anything more "mainstream you can compare it to?


The 19.CR felt identical to the 19.01 Monolith, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same thickness (around 11mm I believe?). I was wearing a Grand Seiko GMT when I tried this, so it definitely felt slimmer and more compact. The 19 series case is my favorite from MING that I've tried, both because of how it looks and because of how comfortably it wears. The flat case back sits extremely well on my wrist. I can't think of anything more mainstream to compare it to... maybe a bit Tudor Black Bay 58-ish in wrist feel, but about 30% lighter.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

other than MING Diver watch. most of its watch thickness are at 10mm range which make it a perfect dress watch choice.

this 17.03 GMT is one my favourite dress watch.


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## Ludi415 (Aug 22, 2021)

I love my 17.09 but not a huge fan of the leather strap it came on. 

Any recommendations for a rubber strap that fits well with the curved lugs?

Any bracelet options? I know Ming is revamping and releasing a new bracelet in Q3 but curious of other options out there.

Thanks!









Sent with my  using Tapatalk


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Cocas said:


> View attachment 16573722
> 
> other than MING Diver watch. most of its watch thickness are at 10mm range which make it a perfect dress watch choice.
> 
> this 17.03 GMT is one my favourite dress watch.


Man do I love me some 17.03 gmt . Such a little workhorse and you can see the design before it’s continued evolution and refinement. Thanks for sharing


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Ludi415 said:


> I love my 17.09 but not a huge fan of the leather strap it came on.


I just got mine yesterday and have to say the watch is stunning and definitely lives up to the hype! However, I too am not loving the strap. In the past I had seen people comment on not liking the strap and I couldn't image why someone would not like it considering how great it looked and how well it match the watch....now that I have it I can however understand why someone might not like it. Again to the good...it's a beautiful strap BUT it has to be one of the most uncomfortable straps I have ever owned. The leather is a good quality but for me the material they used to undercoat the strap is just way too hard and reminds me of recycled plastic. The sides kind of dig into your skin and it definitely doesn't make for a comfortable fit. This brings up the question to those that have owned the watch for a while, will the strap break in? I think it might a bit but the undercoating just doesn't seem like it is going to soften up much. I had a friend ask me last night about the watch and the only way I could describe the strap to him was to liken it to the uncomfortable plastic wristband they make you wear while at a hospital or when you go to a concert or club. I'll be following comments on here for strap alternatives closely as I'm off to source a new strap (likely a Delugs) to fit with this wonderful watch.










(Image off the internet)


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Are you referring to the blue 17.09? The underside will soften and become more comfortable after some regular usage. I have no issue with it. However, I dislike the alcantara ’furry’ outer texture.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Raindrops said:


> Are you referring to the blue 17.09? The underside will soften and become more comfortable after some regular usage. I have no issue with it. However, I dislike the alcantara ’furry’ outer texture.


Yes, Blue 17.09 strap. Good to hear that it might soften up a bit. Texture doesn't bother me and I actually like it but I definitely would not call it "furry."


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## 9101.21 (Jul 18, 2013)

christianj said:


> Yes, Blue 17.09 strap. Good to hear that it might soften up a bit. Texture doesn't bother me and I actually like it but I definitely would not call it "furry."


Good to hear you like the blue 17.09's standard strap, christianj. Like Raindrops, I can't get myself to like the furry (I think more "fuzzy") nature of it, even if it's smoother than I expected. Thus, the first thing I did was switch to an all-rubber strap; it's the standard one for the 18.01 H41. Mine after over a year is practically the same as when it was new, as in it didn't "break in" (and it hardly curves when set down flat on a table). Good thing is, that's how I like it.

In case anyone's interested, this is what the Ming folks said when I expressed skepticism about a furry-fuzzy strap in the tropics, and asked why they didn't line (real) leather with rubber: 

*"Alcantara is an intentional choice specifically because we are based in a tropical country and aware of the issues of perspiration and rain. We used rubber initially for lining (and still go for our watersafe straps and alcantara-upper straps) but when a leather-rubber combo is used, a) the strap becomes very stiff and doesn’t mould well, b) the leather creases and wears out faster and c) rubber doesn’t absorb moisture so it tends to form a layer of perspiration between the strap and wrist which isn’t always a nice feeling. 

"Alcantara on the other hand is absorbent but quick drying and synthetic, which means that when you take the watch off overnight, it will dry out and the synthetic nature means fewer hygiene concerns (which is a big one with leather lining for instance). We are always on the lookout for other materials but based on various standardised tests, alcantara is the best material we’ve found - to date - for comfort, hygiene and longevity."*

Sounds reasonable to me (even as my 17.09's alcantara strap remains unused, hah). Perhaps one day I'll get around to using it; but meanwhile, the Ming folks' advice above sure has me keenly anticipating the new range launching soon. 

Ah, forgot to say: if your 17.09's rubber strap lining is anything like my 18.01's, it might not soften much over time (note: I don't strap mine tight, which could explain the diff between Raindrops's and my experiences)


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

9101.21 said:


> Good to hear you like the blue 17.09's standard strap, christianj. Like Raindrops, I can't get myself to like the furry (I think more "fuzzy") nature of it, even if it's smoother than I expected. Thus, the first thing I did was switch to an all-rubber strap; it's the standard one for the 18.01 H41. Mine after over a year is practically the same as when it was new, as in it didn't "break in" (and it hardly curves when set down flat on a table). Good thing is, that's how I like it.
> 
> In case anyone's interested, this is what the Ming folks said when I expressed skepticism about a furry-fuzzy strap in the tropics, and asked why they didn't line (real) leather with rubber:
> 
> ...


They do plan to make more straps available this year, I believe Q3 is what they quoted me when I asked. (Shout out to their awesome customer service responses.)

Otherwise you can look at Delugs or Formex (which you can get with their awesome deployant) if you want curved pins.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

9101.21 said:


> Good to hear you like the blue 17.09's standard strap, christianj.


Just to clarify, I did not say I liked it if you read my post above. I said the "fuzzy" part (as @Raindrops referred to it) didn't bother me but the material on the underside made it very uncomfortable IMHO.


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## 9101.21 (Jul 18, 2013)

Cleverbs said:


> They do plan to make more straps available this year, I believe Q3 is what they quoted me when I asked. (Shout out to their awesome customer service responses.)
> 
> Otherwise you can look at Delugs or Formex (which you can get with their awesome deployant) if you want curved pins.


Yup, I'm waiting for those new Ming straps to launch. Someone gave me a gift of one pair, when the new range becomes available. Can't wait to see what the options will be (I'm semi-patiently twiddling my thumbs; given Ming's waiting times, I still consider Q3 soon-ish, even as I continue to hope for the "May/ June 2022" mentioned here: NEW STRAPS IN STOCK SOON!). 

Sadly, I've got a limited budget for my watch hobby this year, so when I buy straps I tend to get in HK or from Fluco if the spring bars are straight, and have something custom-made locally if curved. 

It might sound like a joke when I link "limited budget" and "custom-made," but it's really possible in HK. Prices start around US$73 for calfskin and the quality is pretty good. I've 2018 straps [23mm lugs, only two buckle holes--cool & warm weather] that could still pass for new/recent, except that the contrast stitching isn't as bright-white as it used to be.


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## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

Got my first Ming today with the blue 17.09! Man this thing looks even better in real life. The dial design is so hypnotizing! I thought the lug designs were going to bother me, but I find myself enjoying their unique design in a world of non-curved lugs. I also like the addition of rubber material under the strap. I'm a pretty sweaty person and live in a hot environment, so this is a nice feature. Not sure how long the alcantara will last though, but it's so soft. 🙂 










The only complaint I currently have is the conventional strap buckle. I just do not like the conventional buckle styles. But not a major issue, as this was quickly remedied with a $10 deployment clasp from Amazon.


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## Colombia (Sep 7, 2015)

CyanideAndHappiness said:


> Got my first Ming today with the blue 17.09! Man this thing looks even better in real life. The dial design is so hypnotizing! I thought the lug designs were going to bother me, but I find myself enjoying their unique design in a world of non-curved lugs. I also like the addition of rubber material under the strap. I'm a pretty sweaty person and live in a hot environment, so this is a nice feature. Not sure how long the alcantara will last though, but it's so soft. 🙂
> 
> View attachment 16576566
> 
> ...


 That dial is amazing.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

CyanideAndHappiness said:


> Got my first Ming today with the blue 17.09! Man this thing looks even better in real life. The dial design is so hypnotizing! I thought the lug designs were going to bother me, but I find myself enjoying their unique design in a world of non-curved lugs. I also like the addition of rubber material under the strap. I'm a pretty sweaty person and live in a hot environment, so this is a nice feature. Not sure how long the alcantara will last though, but it's so soft. 🙂
> 
> View attachment 16576566
> 
> ...


Welcome to the fam! Yeah those lugs get criticized a lot via photos, but in person they’re a whole other thing. They really work together with the curved spring bars to make a unique fit on the wrist- comically however everyone’s a critic of the straps. I do love how many watch options Ming offers though, and their rubber straps are pretty awesome. I’ve used them diving and they’ve held up well


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## ronhan (Jan 20, 2017)

Just a pic of my shortly arrived 17.09








Best regards, Ron


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## Peeterwatch (9 mo ago)

singularityseven said:


> C'mon folks, you gotta balance all the conversation/debate with photographs of MING watches. It's the unspoken law of the land.
> 
> View attachment 16557595
> 
> ...


Love the copper dial but the new hands are so much better


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## Peeterwatch (9 mo ago)

Omg I cant wait to get mine, that looks frking amazing! So happy I got the 20.11!


singularityseven said:


> First spotting of a 20.11 in the wild..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Some more Instagram MING spotting - 37.05 Moonphase prototype:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CdDhAwjDyhn/


__
http://instagr.am/p/CdDhF8ID6jU/


__
http://instagr.am/p/CdDhDk1DTCS/


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Also more photos of the 20.11


__
http://instagr.am/p/CdDSJgGO3JL/


__
http://instagr.am/p/CdBcVA6rkpm/


__
http://instagr.am/p/Cc_ol0aL_PE/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

christianj said:


> If there are still people in the 40xx range that have heard nothing, then they are even worse off than I thought. This would mean they have delivered about 50% of the first batch. Let’s also not forget we are in early April now, so even with the delay they mentioned they are clearly running behind.
> 
> I never understand why there are always delays in the first batches since they’ve had 1 year to start production on these and one would think they could have produced most of the units in the first batch before they even started shipping.
> 
> At the current rate we might be lucky if the first batch is delayed by a month and who knows what that means for the later batches considering there are at least 1500 units in the total run and so far they’ve shipped around 350 units.


For those still tracking delivery of 17.09s, late April it was (but only received today as I had to pay import tax). So 1 month delay from shipping estimate.

My serial # ended up in the 46xx range - my order was in 42xx range

Gotta say the excitement has dropped off due to the wait- havent even put it on the wrist


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

Here is my 17.09 on a matchy matchy leather burgundy custom made Galaxy Smart watch strap. A touch of class!


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Crazy! 17.06 sold for CHF15,120



https://www.phillips.com/detail/ming/CH080122/145


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Ming bros be like


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> Crazy! 17.06 sold for CHF15,120
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.phillips.com/detail/ming/CH080122/145


Probably not a real representation of the watch's value...


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cleverbs said:


> Probably not a real representation of the watch's value...


I think everyone would agree.


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## watches4ever (Dec 7, 2019)

christianj said:


> Crazy! 17.06 sold for CHF15,120
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.phillips.com/detail/ming/CH080122/145


 Bizarre!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I just published a quick video overview of the 18.01 H41 DLC that I got to check out a few weeks ago:


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## fchen (Jun 12, 2021)

I wonder what and when will be their next release.


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

fchen said:


> I wonder what and when will be their next release.


Have Ming done an equation of time yet?


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

christianj said:


> Crazy! 17.06 sold for CHF15,120
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.phillips.com/detail/ming/CH080122/145



its intrinsic value finally break loose


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

Burgundy 17.09 arrived. I'm chuffed.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

watchcrank_tx said:


> Burgundy 17.09 arrived. I'm chuffed.


Congrats! 

Why do I find myself googling half the terms used online so often? Googling chuffed.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

watchcrank_tx said:


> Burgundy 17.09 arrived. I'm chuffed.


C'mon man! You know the drill - pictures must go with a NWA post


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

christianj said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Why do I find myself googling half the terms used online so often? Googling chuffed.


In this instance, because you're not part of the urban gentry. 

No bits, not okay, not ciao. 😔


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Also more photos of the 20.11


Have they begun delivering 20.11s, anyone received theirs? Curious what it looks like in person.


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

zztopops said:


> Have they begun delivering 20.11s, anyone received theirs? Curious what it looks like in person.


Yes - horo_surgeon has some great pics on Instagram.

__
http://instagr.am/p/Cc_ol0aL_PE/


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## xLuc89x (Aug 13, 2020)

Ming 17.09 on NATO strap. Felt like the watch looked too small on my 7.5" wrist with the leather strap, but this makes it look just right!


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## ronhan (Jan 20, 2017)

Sunshine shot! 








Regards, Ron


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## Mtler2022 (9 mo ago)

Changed to tanned leather blue strap


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## paedipod (Feb 11, 2006)

fchen and watchcrank_tx were wondering about next releases….MT started with a collab with O und J……here’s their take on EOT


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## paedipod (Feb 11, 2006)

Haven’t seen a lot of 27.01 on display. Found some curve bars and looks like I can use some of my “regular” favourite straps.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

And the last of the batch of interesting MING watches I got to check out recently - the 19.01 Monolith


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

singularityseven said:


> C'mon man! You know the drill - pictures must go with a NWA post


I'm way behind on photographing my watches, but here's a shot of it that @Fullers1845 took the other day:


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Anyone hears any news about the delivery of the 35.07?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

downunder888 said:


> Anyone hears any news about the delivery of the 35.07?


I believe they were slated to start shipping in July, so I doubt we'll hear about it for another month or two.


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

downunder888 said:


> Anyone hears any news about the delivery of the 35.07?


No update but my delivery estimate is end of September.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Icelatte said:


> No update but my delivery estimate is end of September.


Were u get told that when the order put through or did Ming team update you after? I havent heard anything since after the ordering process.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

downunder888 said:


> Were u get told that when the order put through or did Ming team update you after? I havent heard anything since after the ordering process.


Your preorder email has an estimate.


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

downunder888 said:


> Were u get told that when the order put through or did Ming team update you after? I havent heard anything since after the ordering process.


I received a separate Delivery Estimate email a week after my preorder was confirmed.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

CyanideAndHappiness said:


> Got my first Ming today with the blue 17.09! Man this thing looks even better in real life. The dial design is so hypnotizing! I thought the lug designs were going to bother me, but I find myself enjoying their unique design in a world of non-curved lugs. I also like the addition of rubber material under the strap. I'm a pretty sweaty person and live in a hot environment, so this is a nice feature. Not sure how long the alcantara will last though, but it's so soft. 🙂
> 
> 
> 
> The only complaint I currently have is the conventional strap buckle. I just do not like the conventional buckle styles. But not a major issue, as this was quickly remedied with a $10 deployment clasp from Amazon.


gotta say that using that deployant on it just makes it look super cheap (sorry)


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Mtler2022 said:


> Changed to tanned leather blue strap


niceeeee


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## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

golffoxtrot said:


> gotta say that using that deployant on it just makes it look super cheap (sorry)


That's fine everyone is entitled to an opinion. I still love it.


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

Just bumping the thread with my 17.09 burgundy on a Ming black rubber strap. Definitely dresses it down for summer fun!


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Bumping the thread as well. Happy winter from down under. Hope everyone keeps well.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Those are sweet looking straps. Where did you get them from? I got a couple of straps from delugs and still havent put them on.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

downunder888 said:


> Those are sweet looking straps. Where did you get them from? I got a couple of straps from delugs and still havent put them on.


This is a MING (Jean Rousseau) blue leather strap that I borrowed from a friend because of how well it pairs with the dial. Delugs does great work so I'm sure they'll look and feel great!


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> This is a MING (Jean Rousseau) blue leather strap that I borrowed from a friend because of how well it pairs with the dial. Delugs does great work so I'm sure they'll look and feel great!


I wonder when Ming is going to reopen the straps to order again. Definitely want to get another pair of Ming straps.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

downunder888 said:


> I wonder when Ming is going to reopen the straps to order again. Definitely want to get another pair of Ming straps.


According to this landing page, we should see some in June/July - NEW STRAPS IN STOCK SOON!

I'm looking to pick up a few more of their rubber straps too.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Thanks mate. Will keep my eyes peeled


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## Peeterwatch (9 mo ago)

Delay on the 20.11. I hope the token of apology is the new metal bracelet. Then itd be worth the wait.
------------------------------------
Hello,

I hope this finds you well.

This email is to share an update on your MING 20.11 Mosaic and to regrettably inform you of a delay in the delivery of your watch.

I know that a delay is frustrating and that this might seem a surprise given we were on schedule until now, so I wanted to take some time to provide additional context and information. So do bear with me if this email is a little lengthy.

Some of you have emailed Sarah over the course of last week and were told that we had a production update scheduled. This update was because we had received a significant number of components from our various suppliers/ partners that were being QC’d before assembly began. Unfortunately, some components did not meet our quality standards and we will need to wait for the next batch of components.

One of the pitfalls of trying something entirely new with sapphire crystal is that the outcome is not as predictable as theory suggests. While the Mosaic dials and the sapphire hands in the 20.11 are in many ways the star of the show, the processes required to produce them have a high failure rate.

For those interested in more detail, MT has a design post on our website here:

Mosaic: Design Brief Ch 1: Mosaic, redux
Sapphire hands: Design Brief Ch 3: Bright hands
As explained earlier, we are waiting for the next batch of components and we are working closely with our partners to minimise any further delays. _We now expect to have watches ready by end-July_.

I know that at the end of the day the responsibility is ours to deliver your watch and I can only apologise again for the delay. I hope that we’ve been to explain the cause and would like to reiterate that while we are waiting for new hands and dials - the rest of the watch (movement, case, etc) is ready and in stock.

We will also be including a small token of apology for the delay with your watch when it ships out.

Thank you for your patience. Sarah and I remain at your disposal if you have any questions.


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Peeterwatch said:


> Delay on the 20.11. I hope the token of apology is the new metal bracelet. Then itd be worth the wait.


I like your positivity haha

I was anxious when I waited for my 17.09 and now for the moonphase. I will get used to it and know I will get the watch. 

At least they are keeping you update and throw in something. Better than Rolex keeping you waiting years on end and not even a 'hey' 😅😅


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Peeterwatch said:


> Delay on the 20.11. I hope the token of apology is the new metal bracelet. Then itd be worth the wait.
> ------------------------------------
> Hello,
> 
> ...


That explains why we haven't seen more 20.11 pics on the internet!


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I had this Dietrich SD2 on loan, so I figured I'd put it next to my blue 17.09 for a short side-by-side video:


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Peeterwatch said:


> Delay on the 20.11. I hope the token of apology is the new metal bracelet. Then itd be worth the wait.
> ------------------------------------
> Hello,
> 
> ...


Oof my version of the email said late august at the earliest through September 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I've been wanting to create a video like this for a while, and finally got around to doing a comparison of four very different watch movements from a wide variety of price categories. I used my MING 27.01 to represent the 3-6k price range as well as what's possible in terms of customization and modification of a movement architecture.

Hopefully some of you find this interesting!






COSC Certified Sellita SW200-1 on a Formex Essence 39









Modified Peseux/ETA 7001 on the MING 27.01









Spring Drive GMT 9R16 on the Grand Seiko SBGE275









Caliber L086.8 on the A. Lange & Sohne Saxonia Outsize Date


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

Finally, my MING 17.09 Burgundy is here.


----------



## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)




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## manofrolex (Jul 9, 2012)

Cocas said:


> View attachment 16733128


Got anything extra with all the delays ?


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

MING and darting with ladies


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

wearing MING at dinner.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Some more IG MING spotting:

The SPC 20.09 Tourbillon: 2021 MING 20.09 Tourbillon


__
http://instagr.am/p/Cfq2rhgrK7-/


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Stunning piece that tourby.

Some pics for your viewing pleasure. What a lume monster!


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## PuYang (May 12, 2017)

Is that Kirby on the back? xD


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

So what do we think (or hope) Ming will have up their sleeves soon based on this post In which they said “we turn five in a few weeks and have a slew of announcements and releases scheduled.”


__
http://instagr.am/p/CfrWou2pTc0/


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

17.09 burgundy on a Delugs orange gator strap. Really enjoying this combo!


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

Ming at Changi airport


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

in the SIA flight now


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> So what do we think (or hope) Ming will have up their sleeves soon based on this post In which they said “we turn five in a few weeks and have a slew of announcements and releases scheduled.”
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CfrWou2pTc0/


I think a safe bet is the new bracelet, new straps, and two watches: one standard release and one special projects. At the rate of their releases, it's unlikely to be more than that.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cleverbs said:


> I think a safe bet is the new bracelet, new straps, and two watches: one standard release and one special projects. At the rate of their releases, it's unlikely to be more than that.


They had been questioned on the bracelet release on IG and they responded 4 days ago that is was still "under development" so even though I agree on the other points I think the bracelet will be later in the year.

As for watches, I guess people are expecting a 37.01 (or something like that) which will use the new case they introduced on the 37.05 Moonphase which they said introduced the "37-series case family."


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I personally hope they release something closer to the 20 series in dimension. But since the 37 family has only had one release so far, I think @christianj is right.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

I just wish they had started to ship the 37.05's (I have one on order) so we knew more about the case before they release more new watches with the 37 family case. Oh well.....guess we also really don't know much about the 20 series case since just the Mosaic's have shipped with that case.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

The new 22 case only has the one release so far too, could be that.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> I just wish they had started to ship the 37.05's (I have one on order) so we knew more about the case before they release more new watches with the 37 family case. Oh well.....guess we also really don't know much about the 20 series case since just the Mosaic's have shipped with that case.


Good point. The lengthy delivery times interleaved with new releases in-between is becoming challenging as a buyer.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cleverbs said:


> The new 22 case only has the one release so far too, could be that.


isn’t it pretty much the same as the 20?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> isn’t it pretty much the same as the 20?


To me the 22 case looks more like the 17.09, with a different bezel and a sapphire case-back.

17.09









22.01


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

MING enjoying Bourbon in HCM city


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Just acquired a Ming diver on bracelet. Can anyone recommend a place to get a curved rubber or hybrid strap? Or should I wait for Ming to sell them again? Thanks.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Tpp3975 said:


> Just acquired a Ming diver on bracelet. Can anyone recommend a place to get a curved rubber or hybrid strap? Or should I wait for Ming to sell them again? Thanks.


I think people have suggested Delugs in the past.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> Just acquired a Ming diver on bracelet. Can anyone recommend a place to get a curved rubber or hybrid strap? Or should I wait for Ming to sell them again? Thanks.


The only rubber curved strap I can find is the Formex Essence 39 black curved rubber. I have not seen any hybrid.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Cleverbs said:


> The only rubber curved strap I can find is the Formex Essence 39 black curved rubber. I have not seen any hybrid.


Has anyone tried rubber on this? The Ming OEM has a rubber like appearance even though it appears to be leather?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Has anyone tried rubber on this? The Ming OEM has a rubber like appearance even though it appears to be leather?


The Formex rubber strap does work on MINGs and I've tried it on my 17.09, 27.01 etc. You will have to buy their clasp too (which is pretty awesome).

MING does make rubber straps, and I believe the 18.01 shipped with rubber straps if you didn't opt in for a bracelet. So you could wait for MING to release more rubber straps.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> The Formex rubber strap does work on MINGs and I've tried it on my 17.09, 27.01 etc. You will have to buy their clasp too (which is pretty awesome).
> 
> MING does make rubber straps, and I believe the 18.01 shipped with rubber straps if you didn't opt in for a bracelet. So you could wait for MING to release more rubber straps.


Thanks. Would love to see a pic of the formex. About 200 usd with the clasp but not a cheap investment.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Thanks. Would love to see a pic of the formex. About 200 usd with the clasp but not a cheap investment.


I'll try get you a pic of the Formex strap on a MING this weekend.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> I'll try get you a pic of the Formex strap on a MING this weekend.


Thanks. Looks like it’s 225 shipped to US. Do you feel it’s worth that money?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Thanks. Looks like it’s 225 shipped to US. Do you feel it’s worth that money?


I do. I've been wearing my Essence 39 on the rubber strap through most off this summer and the adjustable clasp is fantastic. The quality up there with much much more expensive brands.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> I do. I've been wearing my Essence 39 on the rubber strap through most off this summer and the adjustable clasp is fantastic. The quality up there with much much more expensive brands.


Ordered this one. Thanks for the tip.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Ordered this one. Thanks for the tip.


Hope you like it as much as I do. I'll get you some photographs this weekend.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Thanks. Looks like it’s 225 shipped to US. Do you feel it’s worth that money?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> View attachment 16767989
> 
> 
> View attachment 16767991


Thanks for posting. Looks like a high quality strap. Seems like it will be a good fit for the diver.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

hard to believe those greenery across the straits is actually Singapore.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> View attachment 16769023


If these are both yours.........I have to ask........who at Massena did you bribe?  🤷‍♂️


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> If these are both yours.........I have to ask........who at Massena did you bribe?  🤷‍♂️


😂 

Neither are mine. They belong to a friend who bought both on the secondary market.


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## 9101.21 (Jul 18, 2013)

Straps are again available (and the site looks a bit different). Link to the new range: Straps - Horologer MING. Hot-topic inflation hasn't spared the sub-sector 😂


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

9101.21 said:


> Straps are again available (and the site looks a bit different). Link to the new range: Straps - Horologer MING. Hot-topic inflation hasn't spared the sub-sector 😂


Thanks for the heads up!


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

9101.21 said:


> Straps are again available (and the site looks a bit different). Link to the new range: Straps - Horologer MING. Hot-topic inflation hasn't spared the sub-sector 😂


Thanks! Debating on what size to get for my 6.5" wrist. Seems like regular is the safe pick, but not sure. Even though I won't have my 22.01 for another 6 months, seems like I should just get a strap now to be safe. Thoughts?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Diver on the Formex Rubber


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

9101.21 said:


> Straps are again available (and the site looks a bit different). Link to the new range: Straps - Horologer MING. Hot-topic inflation hasn't spared the sub-sector 😂


300 USD! Yikes.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Diver on the Formex Rubber


That looks excellent, and I think the thickness of the strap at the lugs works great with the height of the case and lugs. How are you liking it?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> Thanks! Debating on what size to get for my 6.5" wrist. Seems like regular is the safe pick, but not sure. Even though I won't have my 22.01 for another 6 months, seems like I should just get a strap now to be safe. Thoughts?


I have a 6.5" wrist and I picked up two regulars. I think you'll be fine with their regular size too.

As for picking up a strap now, I think that's a good idea. I don't see them dropping the price or revamping the design in the next six months considering this is the latest design (with the new clasp).


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> I have a 6.5" wrist and I picked up two regulars. I think you'll be fine with their regular size too.
> 
> As for picking up a strap now, I think that's a good idea. I don't see them dropping the price or revamping the design in the next six months considering this is the latest design (with the new clasp).


Thanks, probably better to be on the safe side for length anyway. Has anyone used the new clasp yet?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Tpp3975 said:


> Diver on the Formex Rubbe


Inthink


singularityseven said:


> That looks excellent, and I think the thickness of the strap at the lugs works great with the height of the case and lugs. How are you liking it?


very pleased. Particularly after seeing the price of the Ming at 300. I was a little surprised the deployant is made of plastic for the price but maybe it’s a weight thing. Thanks for tip. I think the watch works much better on rubber versus the bracelet.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Tpp3975 said:


> Inthink
> 
> 
> very pleased. Particularly after seeing the price of the Ming at 300. I was a little surprised the deployant is made of plastic for the price but maybe it’s a weight thing. Thanks for tip. I think the watch works much better on rubber versus the bracelet.


Here it is in an OEM Ming grey leather


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> Here it is in an OEM Ming grey leather
> 
> View attachment 16775797


That's grey?!?

Well I'm glad I ordered the grey Alcantara for my Kyoto. Now just another lifetime for the watch to arrive...


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Cleverbs said:


> That's grey?!?
> 
> Well I'm glad I ordered the grey Alcantara for my Kyoto. Now just another lifetime for the watch to arrive...


Yeah it’s a bit lighter than it appears. A medium grey. The grey alancantra looks amazing. Good choice.


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

LOL, my quick release just broke on the Ming rubber strap that I had gotten for the delayed delivery. Just ordered the Formex - great find @singularityseven!


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

So I’m new to Ming having just acquired this 18.01 a week ago. I have always admired them and the diver is my absolute favorite. That said, the modern look is a bit jarring on the wrist particularly since many of my other watches are classic and or retro.
I am warming to it and still feel the watch is stunning but it’s an adjustment. Am I the only one who had to adjust to their Ming?


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

Tpp3975 said:


> So I’m new to Ming having just acquired this 18.01 a week ago. I have always admired them and the diver is my absolute favorite. That said, the modern look is a bit jarring on the wrist particularly since many of my other watches are classic and or retro.
> I am warming to it and still feel the watch is stunning but it’s an adjustment. Am I the only one who had to adjust to their Ming?


Really funny that you mention this - I was thinking about it the other day. I think there's so much of watchdom that goes for a vintage/retro vibe, that things that are absolutely modern definitely seem to be more jarring. The recent Hodinkee video on the Omega Seamaster 300 is a great example - they talk about it as sort of "best of" of vintage-y concepts for the Instagram era.

I'm personally finding the modern vibe of the Ming quite refreshing. It's been a great change of pace for me, and I'm enjoying the "counter-culture" aesthetic.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> So I’m new to Ming having just acquired this 18.01 a week ago. I have always admired them and the diver is my absolute favorite. That said, the modern look is a bit jarring on the wrist particularly since many of my other watches are classic and or retro.
> I am warming to it and still feel the watch is stunning but it’s an adjustment. Am I the only one who had to adjust to their Ming?


I think what Ming is doing is part of why I was attracted to them when I first saw their watches. The classic styling is nice, but after I got a couple of those (primarily my OP36), I wanted something different that stood out. I think it's why I'm also drawn to the UN Freak X, Arnold and Son Nebula, and other modern skeleton watches - they buck the classic trend into something more modern.

Does anyone have other more modern watch suggestions, especially under $10k?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

MING just added two new journal posts:






Horologer MING - 2022: The Transition, Part One







www.ming.watch










Horologer MING - 2022: The Transition, Part Two







www.ming.watch





And what I found to be most intriguing, was this photograph, which is perhaps a glimpse of the next release. It looked like the 37.05 initially, but seems to have a different dial design with what appears to be some kind of mosaic in the center.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Sorry...repost of the links @singularityseven just posted...we must have been typing at the same time.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> Management changes at Ming:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> View attachment 16777415


Just deleted my post....sorry!


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

My primary takeaways are that Ming are setting themselves up to be around a long time, and they're looking to improve overall customer experience. All good things.

Looking forward to the upcoming announcements, even if it'll be difficult for me to commit to buying another Ming before my first one has arrived.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Cleverbs said:


> My primary takeaways are that Ming are setting themselves up to be around a long time, and they're looking to improve overall customer experience. All good things.
> 
> Looking forward to the upcoming announcements, even if it'll be difficult for me to commit to buying another Ming before my first one has arrived.


If they want to be around a long time, they should dump the preorder model and sell watches that are available. A month or two - fine. A year is too much. Not everyone can just deploy 3 or 4k to someone without receiving anything on exchange. It’s basically a loan. I hope the revisit this sales model.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Tpp3975 said:


> If they want to be around a long time, they should dump the preorder model and sell watches that are available. A month or two - fine. A year is too much. Not everyone can just deploy 3 or 4k to someone without receiving anything on exchange. It’s basically a loan. I hope the revisit this sales model.


Why would they do that if the current system is working for them and they are selling out in minutes? Not saying I wouldn’t prefer what you propose since with the current sales model buyers are prepaying and it’s somewhat frustrating that they will release new models before we even get other models. I bought a 37.05 Moonphase which I likely won’t get before they announce the next model with this new 37 case so it’s annoying that I might need to decide on the next model without even seeing the case to determine if I like it or not. Sad fact but sometimes life is difficult and I doubt we will see a change as long as they continue to see the demand they have now. 🤷‍♂️


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

christianj said:


> Why would they do that if the current system is working for them and they are selling out in minutes? Not saying I wouldn’t prefer what you propose since with the current sales model buyers are prepaying and it’s somewhat frustrating that they will release new models before we even get other models. I bought a 37.05 Moonphase which I likely won’t get before they announce the next model with this new 37 case so it’s annoying that I might need to decide on the next model without even seeing the case to determine if I like it or not. Sad fact but sometimes life is difficult and I doubt we will see a change as long as they continue to see the demand they have now. 🤷‍♂️


I guess we will see. The watch market is slowing down. Hype with the independents is diminishing. Prices are falling. Maybe Ming can continue to sell watches a year in advance and ask customers to be their bank. Maybe not. It probably depends on availability and batch sizes. At a few hundred pieces there will probably be plenty of takers. If they plan to scale up (no clue if they do or don’t) I think the model gets harder to sustain. From a customer perspective, it’s an awful way to buy something and turns me off and I presume a lot of people.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> I guess we will see. The watch market is slowing down. Hype with the independents is diminishing. Prices are falling. Maybe Ming can continue to sell watches a year in advance and ask customers to be their bank. Maybe not. It probably depends on availability and batch sizes. At a few hundred pieces there will probably be plenty of takers. If they plan to scale up (no clue if they do or don’t) I think the model gets harder to sustain. From a customer perspective, it’s an awful way to buy something and turns me off and I presume a lot of people.


I'd be curious to find out how many watches they sold during the "unlimited availability for set amount of time." Maybe they switch to that model for some releases. 

And from a customer experience standpoint, I imagine "get guaranteed preorder" trumps "here's our website of models, everything is always sold out."


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Cleverbs said:


> I'd be curious to find out how many watches they sold during the "unlimited availability for set amount of time." Maybe they switch to that model for some releases.


we’ll take a look at the classifieds sometime. Everyone is trying to unload them. Dozens of them listed. Hence I don’t think this sales model is sustainable. Let’s just say we agree to disagree. There are very few watches not named Rolex that cannot be acquired within a couple of weeks or worst case a couple of months. A year is crazy. You seem like a Ming fan and are unwilling to accept criticism of the brand. Which is fine.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> we’ll take a look at the classifieds sometime. Everyone is trying to unload them. Dozens of them listed. Hence I don’t think this sales model is sustainable. Let’s just say we agree to disagree. There are very few watches not named Rolex that cannot be acquired within a couple of weeks or worst case a couple of months. A year is crazy. You seem like a Ming fan and are unwilling to accept criticism of the brand. Which is fine.


Your criticism of their delivery schedule is valid and even as a MING fan I agree with you, but saying "there are many MINGs listed for sale" isn't proof that their sales model isn't sustainable. At least not in any obvious way.

I think there were rumours that around 2000-3000 17.09s were ordered during the timed window, and I think we're approaching the tail end of that delivery cycle. Even if 20% of those ended up in the hands of speculators and flippers (400-600, which is still at least an order of magnitude larger than all the 17.09s listed on WatchRecon & Chrono24), 80% have likely ended up with folks that want them or at least want them right now. And that doesn't seem too bad?

You also bring up Rolex, which is in a similar situation - Chrono24 and WatchRecon are *filled* with unsold brand new Rolex watches and they have been for a while now, but that hasn't really affected the Rolex sales model. Rolex has seen a year on year increase in production.

However, if the secondary market was flooded with (Rolex or) MING watches that were trading below retail (and significantly so), then I can imagine a situation where people on the fence and those purely interested in profit making step away from the brand.. and then their sales model might need re-inspection (if they want to).

But having pre-orders determine their exact quantity of production will mean that they can stay agile and forecast any changes to the demand, and I think that's a good place to be in as a brand. But it isn't the greatest experience as a customer. But as mentioned many times in this thread, I think there is a sizeable fraction of MING enthusiasts (myself included) that prefer to wait with a guarantee instead of play games of uncertainty at an AD.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> Your criticism of their delivery schedule is valid and even as a MING fan I agree with you, but saying "there are many MINGs listed for sale" isn't proof that their sales model isn't sustainable. At least not in any obvious way.
> 
> I think there were rumours that around 2000-3000 17.09s were ordered during the timed window, and I think we're approaching the tail end of that delivery cycle. Even if 20% of those ended up in the hands of speculators and flippers (400-600, which is still at least an order of magnitude larger than all the 17.09s listed on WatchRecon & Chrono24), 80% have likely ended up with folks that want them or at least want them right now. And that doesn't seem too bad?
> 
> ...


I was just talking to a huge watch collector who is still waiting for his blue Ming. He said and I quote “never again”. Yes, Ming devotees will suffer through the model but as the hype and market slows, fewer and fewer will. I for one will not even though I admire the watches. I can’t believe anyone “prefers” to pay now and wait a year for something and I’ve never had an AD not come through except for Rolex. And if not an AD, a broker or someone else. Anyway not starting a flame war - just hoping they go to a more traditional sales model sometime.

I don’t think they need preorders to determine demand at this point as demand already exceeds supply. Let’s call a spade a spade. They just want your money up front. That’s fine. But that’s what it is.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Let’s call a spade a spade. They just want your money up front.


I don't think that is being debated here. It is obvious that the pre-order money is being used to produce the watches, and I don't think anyone believes otherwise.

I was more interested in your statement that connected the many available MING watches on the market now to them needing to change this sales model. I think this model keeps them positioned perfectly to adapt to changing demands if needed.

And if you read the journal post from today, it is clear that MING are aware of the pains of a lengthy wait time and (hopefully) have plans in place to shrink their production timelines.



Tpp3975 said:


> I can’t believe anyone “prefers” to pay now and wait a year for something and I’ve never had an AD not come through except for Rolex.


I genuinely do. I spent 8 months (last year) on a waitlist for a Rolex OP (with a deposit) and did not see that watch at the end of an annoying and unfruitful ordeal. And I'm currently on a waitlist for a Rolex again without any certainty of getting one. I'll take this model over that without hesitation. Is it a good model for the buyer? No, it is not ideal at all. But is it the worst? No.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> we’ll take a look at the classifieds sometime. Everyone is trying to unload them. Dozens of them listed. Hence I don’t think this sales model is sustainable. Let’s just say we agree to disagree. There are very few watches not named Rolex that cannot be acquired within a couple of weeks or worst case a couple of months. A year is crazy. You seem like a Ming fan and are unwilling to accept criticism of the brand. Which is fine.


I'm a fan of Ming designs, but I make no apologies for the company. Their wait times suck. But on the bright side, I know I'll have a watch after that 10-12 months. 

When I was Rolex shopping, I had to reach out to a dozen dealers, got waitlisted at 6, and got lucky to get one 6 months after the initial request. The other 5 locations have yet to contact me 2 years later. There are other examples, especially on limited edition watches, that are ****ty experiences as well.

I'd love if the mainstream brands had more modern designs like Ming is putting out, but Ming has been successful because their watches look different from everyone else's. I've spent too much time watch shopping and coming up pretty empty.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

I chimed in before on my thoughts that they would likely not change their sales model but will add that I (as well as others above) will gladly fork out $3-4K for a watch I want……as long as I know 100% that I will get a watch within a specific timeframe. Fact is I don’t spend money on watches that I can’t be without for the time it takes to get the watch so I’m not really that bothered. The BS with other brands that you need to buy other models to get the most desirable ones is completely unacceptable as is being on a “list” for a long time and never actually getting a watch.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> I can’t believe anyone “prefers” to pay now and wait a year for something and I’ve never had an AD not come through except for Rolex. And if not an AD, a broker or someone else. Anyway not starting a flame war - just hoping they go to a more traditional sales model


I whole heartly prefer to pay up front or a deposit and get the certainty my watch is coming. Let's face it, independent/micro brands like Ming is not gonna have the financial backing like big, traditional brands to have a store front and always stocked up (I am not referring to Rolex here lol). Their business model works fine and Ming is not the only one doing. They can definitely improve a lot on delivery time frame, though.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Lots of fair and good points in here but again I think you all represent the minority of watch buyers. I can live with the preorder process but I still think a year ETA is unreasonable and off putting to most. Yes you are right you get the watch eventually and there is no drama. I still think if Ming wants to grow into a more established brand they are going to have to change things up. Whenever I see a preorder and long wait, I almost immediately turn my attention away. There is a huge difference between say 2 months and 12 months. Kurono seems to be able to get watches out more quickly while following a similar sales model.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Kurono seems to be able to get watches out more quickly while following a similar sales model.


Kurono has the luxury of re-using the same movement, hands and cases for most of their watches, so a new launch is pretty much just a new dial most of the time, whereas MING tends to change things up very frequently.

MING doesn't re-use as much (except within a case design family - but even the 17 series family had at least 3 different cases, multiple movements and a bunch of different hands that I'm aware of), and this means they can't order cases, hands and movements in bulk and just slap on new dial colors and textures in a short period of time.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> I still think if Ming wants to grow into a more established brand they are going to have to change things up.


This is where we will have to disagree. There are plenty of brands a lot better 'established' than MING that work in this way - anybody into independent watchmakers or "boutique microbrands" is used to a lengthy wait time.. or even a mainstream watchmaker that is fairly popular. It comes with the territory.

For immediate gratification, there will always be a different genre of watches readily available, and there's nothing wrong with that. But claiming there is only one path to success may be incorrect given the dozens of brands that are already highly successful and using a similar model.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

It’s been quite an entertaining read, the last few posts. I agree with singularityseven that the Ming system is not bad per se. I know 10-12 months is not a short period of time. But it’s not bad if you get something drool worthy at the end of it. I have 2 Mings incoming as well as a Dornblueth and Sohn, and a anOrdain. All taking 8-12 months for delivery. I will happily wait for a guaranteed watch after a set period of time.
I mean what wouldn’t one give if they could put down $20k right now and be guaranteed a Daytona in 4 years time!


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

I am not sure what the criticism of Ming’s business model is about. They operate on this basis, a bit like the horology equivalent of buying a Dell laptop for example. Hence waiting for the watch you have ordered and paid a deposit for to be delivered at a later date is what it is.

If the criticism is directed at long delays beyond the originally scheduled delivery dates, that I can at least understand (not saying I will necessarily agree the criticism in such a situation is justified in view of many factors beyond businesses‘ control such as supply chain disruptions, just that I can see where it is coming from).


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> This is where we will have to disagree. There are plenty of brands a lot better 'established' than MING that work in this way - anybody into independent watchmakers or "boutique microbrands" is used to a lengthy wait time.. or even a mainstream watchmaker that is fairly popular. It comes with the territory.
> 
> For immediate gratification, there will always be a different genre of watches readily available, and there's nothing wrong with that. But claiming there is only one path to success may be incorrect given the dozens of brands that are already highly successful and using a similar model.


I didn’t say there was only 1 path. I said - in my opinion - it’s a model that needs to be improved. I’ve given the reasons and I have discussed Ming with many friends who are watch fans. No one likes the business model. Sure they may accept it because there is no choice. The instant gratification argument is somewhat patronizing. There’s a big difference between lending Ming 4k for a year interest free to build me a watch and needing a watch _right this second. _
This thread has vibes of Apple fans defending the company no matter what. Bottom line is Ming’s business model is not customer friendly in any way shape or form. We haven’t even discussed the quick sellouts and declined credit card transactions.

Maybe it will work for them long term and maybe it won’t. As I said, at batches in the hundreds it probably won’t matter but if they want to grow into a mainstream company, it will have to change. Maybe they don’t want that anyway.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> I am not sure what the criticism of Ming’s business model is about. They operate on this basis, a bit like the horology equivalent of buying a Dell laptop for example. Hence waiting for the watch you have ordered and paid a deposit for to be delivered at a later date is what it is.
> 
> If the criticism is directed at long delays beyond the originally scheduled delivery dates, that I can at least understand (not saying I will necessarily agree the criticism in such a situation is justified in view of many factors beyond businesses‘ control such as supply chain disruptions, just that I can see where it is coming from).


My custom Dell computer was shipped to me in 3 days. Not 12 months.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> My custom Dell computer was shipped to me in 3 days. Not 12 months.


For your information, my Dell delivery took 2-3 weeks before I received it. When I ordered it, it was not built yet and needed to be built first, ie. it was not a ready-made off-the-shelf laptop. This is the difference between Dell’s business model and other laptop manufacturers.

Anyway, I am not making a straight-forward comparison (I said ‘a bit like …’) but simply wish to draw attention to the similarity between Ming and Dell in that their products are not the typical off-the-shelf type found in other laptop manufacturers and watch companies. Beyond this the anology breaks down due to the differences between a laptop commodity and a semi-luxury watch.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> I didn’t say there was only 1 path. I said - in my opinion - it’s a model that needs to be improved. I’ve given the reasons and I have discussed Ming with many friends who are watch fans. No one likes the business model. Sure they may accept it because there is no choice. The instant gratification argument is somewhat patronizing. There’s a big difference between lending Ming 4k for a year interest free to build me a watch and needing a watch _right this second. _
> This thread has vibes of Apple fans defending the company no matter what. Bottom line is Ming’s business model is not customer friendly in any way shape or form. We haven’t even discussed the quick sellouts and declined credit card transactions.
> 
> Maybe it will work for them long term and maybe it won’t. As I said, at batches in the hundreds it probably won’t matter but if they want to grow into a mainstream company, it will have to change. Maybe they don’t want that anyway.


Comparing Ming to Apple is amusing. You seem to be stuck on how much you hate paying for half a watch, waiting 12 months, then paying the other half and getting the watch. Which... fine? The watch industry isn't unique in this, and as others have noted, even Ming isn't unique for this in the watch industry. Hell, even high end TOYS have this - preorders go up as soon as grey plastic prototypes are made, and it's 8-12 months before you get them. Some charge immediately, some charge when it ships. 

Ming's business model works for them. It allows them to put out 3-4 unique designs a year with all kinds of new components, cases, and complications. They have special projects and bespoke watches, too. How many other watch brands offer sub-$2k fairly accessible watches and $50k+ bespoke watches with the same name on the front without the use of gold or platinum? 

If continuing the trend of offering watches from affordable to definitely not affordable across a bunch of new designs a year requires the current business model, then that's as good of a reason as any to keep it. And personally, I hope they do. Their designs evolve at a rapid pace, just look at the 17 series and how much that changed from their first release to their most recent.

Keeping their business model and improving *perceived *delivery time gives them two options:
1) Build up an amazing supplier base that will only make high quality parts on shorter lead times (preventing the risk of delays from defective parts). This is expensive and difficult no matter the industry. These suppliers are also more expensive. Would you be willing to pay a premium for your watch to have it a month or two sooner? 
2) Put up the preorders for watches closer to the delivery date. Their lead time to design and make a watch is unlikely to change significantly, but from a consumer's point of view, this makes the lead time "shorter"... Downsides? They take more risk on in case a watch doesn't resonate with consumers and doesn't sell through. They have to have more cash on hand to order everything instead of using the half-of-the-price preorder cash to keep the company running. It's a balancing act that's much more difficult for a new company to pull off, but maybe Ming will switch to this once they have more money in the bank. Who knows. 

I'm trying to be practical here, while also keeping in mind the way Ming operates with their releases.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> This thread has vibes of Apple fans defending the company no matter what.


I think everyone in this thread would prefer to get their MING watch sooner rather than later. In that, I don't think anyone disagrees with you. 



Tpp3975 said:


> I still think if Ming wants to grow into a more established brand they are going to have to change things up.


I think the debate stems from your assertion that this model *must* change for MING to stay successful, and that is where I disagree.. because most of the collectors I know who are into indie watches and more 'boutique'-esque microbrands are used to this, and it seems to be the price to pay for something slightly off the mainstream path. I just heard recently that the wait time for an A Lange & Sohne 1815 Chronograph is 2 years. If I had the money, I'd happily pay it and wait it out.

I don't think anybody would blame you (or not understand) if you aren't interested in waiting, and I can easily believe that there is a not insignificant number of potential buyers that may be turned off by the long wait. But likewise, I think there is a similar population of us that have grown to expect such production cycles and it doesn't seem to be as much of a 'deal breaker' to us as it may be to you.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Tpp3975 said:


> I didn’t say there was only 1 path. I said - in my opinion - it’s a model that needs to be improved. I’ve given the reasons and I have discussed Ming with many friends who are watch fans. No one likes the business model. Sure they may accept it because there is no choice. The instant gratification argument is somewhat patronizing. There’s a big difference between lending Ming 4k for a year interest free to build me a watch and needing a watch _right this second. _


I think you have made your point repeatedly. It’s not a business model that works for you and your watch fan collective.

“Sure they may accept it because there is no choice”
Au contraire, there are loads of choices! Beauty of the industry, there are many other brands that WILL fit your buying needs, experience and expectations. Your rant is no different from the numerous Rolex haters and their complaints about availability and AD experiences. My sense is those who are particularly annoyed by the experience and wait enjoy posting and showing off their new watches, FOMO watch fans? No point in getting all flustered and imposing your opinion on others and expecting them to agree with you. Just move on to another brand.

Like others have echoed, I’m fine waiting for a watch I find interesting enough to plonk down a decent deposit sight unseen and the certainty of receiving after x, +/- a few months. I also like the certainty I can do it in the comfort of my own home without driving around numerous ADs groveling for a watch or them expecting me to buy something I don’t want in order to get the ‘rights’ to buy what I actually want. Celebs, VIP and influencers getting ahead of the line etc. Tired of these buying games today, Furthermore I have many other watches to rotate while I wait. I would certainly prefer getting my watch sooner, however I’m also not in a rush. Besides once I receive it, it’s just me enjoying it… I have no friends to show off the watch and my wife can’t find out I bought yet another watch.

As for the 0% interest argument, I’m fine fronting a company I like. Hopefully it lowers their operating expenses (line of credit interest etc) and they pass along the benefit to me as the consumer.

Manufacturing a lot inventory and hoping and praying it sells as a startup/young company ain’t a fun position to be in. I think this is business model a lot of companies wish they could operate by.

You think this wait is bad? I’m on a 3-4 year waitlist for a pair of boots!


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

So after over a year of pondering, I've managed to pick up a barely worn blue 17.09 for pretty much retail (when taking into account what customs fees would have been).

Anyone got any suggestions of curved end straps or straight lug straps that fit? Already got the Formex rubber strap and know Delugs do them too but just wondered if there was any other good options out there.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Pogo247 said:


> So after over a year of pondering, I've managed to pick up a barely worn blue 17.09 for pretty much retail (when taking into account what customs fees would have been).
> 
> Anyone got any suggestions of curved end straps or straight lug straps that fit? Already got the Formex rubber strap and know Delugs do them too but just wondered if there was any other good options out there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


Ming is currently selling straps direct with their new tuck clasp.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Pogo247 said:


> So after over a year of pondering, I've managed to pick up a barely worn blue 17.09 for pretty much retail (when taking into account what customs fees would have been).
> 
> Anyone got any suggestions of curved end straps or straight lug straps that fit? Already got the Formex rubber strap and know Delugs do them too but just wondered if there was any other good options out there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


Monstraps make curved straps too, and you can go straight to Jean Rousseau (MING's manufacturer) if you want as well. For leather, I like what Delugs does and for Alcantara / Rubber I haven't found anything I like more than what MING and Formex offer. Hopefully we see more brands offering curved straps soon.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

@zztopops - This is pretty harsh dude. I didn’t rant - I gave my thoughts and the reasons for them. You don’t have to agree with me.
As for posting my opinions, I think that’s the entire purpose of the WUS message board. Glad you’re the opinion police. Citation from you noted and thrown in the garbage.
Enjoy your iPhone … errr Ming which you acquired during a flawless customer friendly ordering process.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Pogo247 said:


> So after over a year of pondering, I've managed to pick up a barely worn blue 17.09 for pretty much retail (when taking into account what customs fees would have been).
> 
> Anyone got any suggestions of curved end straps or straight lug straps that fit? Already got the Formex rubber strap and know Delugs do them too but just wondered if there was any other good options out there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


Delugs is good. My Burgundy 17.09 on a made-to-order Delugs strap.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> So I’m new to Ming having just acquired this 18.01 a week ago. I have always admired them and the diver is my absolute favorite. That said, the modern look is a bit jarring on the wrist particularly since many of my other watches are classic and or retro.
> I am warming to it and still feel the watch is stunning but it’s an adjustment. Am I the only one who had to adjust to their Ming?


So I appreciate this post, as a collector and enthusiastic. I also own the Ming diver and I’ll admit it took some time to really appreciate because of how unique and different it was compared to more traditional divers. There were so many differences when comparing it to my Tudor black bay… even so many differences in the bezel alone. The dimensions of Ming’s bezel and how it doesn’t overhang at all, really impacting the aesthetics of the watch. The dlc finish to the bezel, with enough grip in and out of the water. Yes, it’s not as easy to turn as the black bay bezel, but as a collector I can learn to appreciate small details in my watches by paying attention to the design decisions in these watches. Sure, it’s not for everyone. And I’ve considered flipping it for another piece. But the longer I’ve had it, the more it’s grown on me and I’m really looking forward to a next generation Ming diver just to see how the design language evolves. I mean do you know how near impossible it is to create an extremely original diver in this day and age?


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Delugs is good. My Burgundy 17.09 on a made-to-order Delugs strap.
> View attachment 16783347


That looks great, which leather is that please? I'm thinking Delugs will be the way to go, I've got a couple of their straps already and have been happy with the quality. I'm sure Ming's straps are great but not sure I want to spend that much on a strap tbh. 

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Pogo247 said:


> That looks great, which leather is that please? I'm thinking Delugs will be the way to go, I've got a couple of their straps already and have been happy with the quality. I'm sure Ming's straps are great but not sure I want to spend that much on a strap tbh.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


It’s either a custom navy Epsom or Saffiano leather. I don’t remember exactly as I got it 2-3 years back. At that time Delugs did not offer ready-made curved straps for sale like today so I had this strap made for my dress watch. Good luck getting the strap(s) you want!


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Pogo247 said:


> That looks great, which leather is that please? I'm thinking Delugs will be the way to go, I've got a couple of their straps already and have been happy with the quality. I'm sure Ming's straps are great but not sure I want to spend that much on a strap tbh.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


Managed to find the email from Delugs for the specs:
*Custom Watch Strap × 1
Epsom (Smooth) / MTO
I understand that this is a custom order and it will take 3-4 weeks before the strap is sent out. Click here if you need help with the customisation options.: Yes
Styles: Slim
Epsom Smooth Colour: Navy
Curved Lugs: Yes
Quick Release Spring Bar: Yes
Buckle Finish: Brushed Silver
Lug Width (Lug-Buckle): 20-16
Length (Long End-Short End): L (125/75)
Thread Colour: Tone-on-Tone
Accent Side-Stitch: None*


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Not sure why I got this email since I already got my 17.09 but for those still waiting...look for this email.

















*Final update on the MING 17.09s*



Dear friends,

As of last week, all watches are ready and everyone with a 17.09 pre-order has been emailed details of the balance payment and shipping for their watch.

If you've already received your 17.09 or have completed balance payment, then no further action is required. If you have not received any emails:

Please check your Spam/ Junk box as the email may have been redirected there. If you're unable to find any email still,
Please email us at [email protected] with your Order Number. 
We do our best to reply emails as soon as we can and request your patience.

- Team MING


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> MING just added two new journal posts:
> 
> And what I found to be most intriguing, was this photograph, which is perhaps a glimpse of the next release. It looked like the 37.05 initially, but seems to have a different dial design with what appears to be some kind of mosaic in the center.
> 
> View attachment 16777400


You called it, mate.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Here the official cut and paste of the email announcement of the 37.07.


Mon, Jul 25 at 9:00 AM


​
​
​

​










​

​
*Presenting the MING 37.07*


​
​


​



​
Discover the MING 37.07 here​


​
Dear friends,

It’s been almost five years since we started this journey: 17.01 launched in August 2017. It feels like both an era and the blink of an eye. In that time we’ve learned a lot, the team has grown, and we’ve had the pleasure of meeting more collectors and hopefully sharing some of the same joy we’ve had creating the watches.

Today is a very special day because we reveal our fifth anniversary watch: the MING 37.07 - Mosaic for all.

When we unveiled the first sapphire Mosaic in 2020, there was a lot of demand for something similar but at a more accessible price. Given the nature of the sapphire-based process, this simply wasn’t possible as a single dial cost more to produce than an entire 17-series watch. But we never gave up and have been working to find a visually similar – but ultimately very different – process to bring the same impact to a larger audience.

Enter 37.07: a further refined and matured take on the same daily wearing, horologically solid concept that gave birth to our very first watch, the 17.01. Please find full details and pictures of the watch via the button above.

As this is our fifth anniversary special and to make the 37.07 as accessible as possible, we are once again implementing a time-limited order process. Watches will be available to purchase in two windows:
1) *29 July 2022, 2-2.15AM GMT*, which is:

7-7.15PM (28 July) in San Francisco
10-10.15PM (28 July) in New York
3-3.15AM in London
4-4.15AM in Geneva
6-6.15AM in Dubai
10-10.15AM in Kuala Lumpur
11-11.15AM in Tokyo
12-12.15PM in Melbourne
2) *29 July 2022, 1-1.15PM GMT*, which is:

6-6.15AM in San Francisco
9-9.15AM in New York
2-2.15PM in London
3-3.15PM in Geneva
5-5.15PM in Dubai
9-9.15PM in Kuala Lumpur
10-10.15PM in Tokyo
11-11.15PM in Melbourne
The 37.07 retails for *CHF 3,250* with a *50% non-refundable deposit (CHF 1,625)* required to confirm orders.
For time limited releases:

All orders received during the order windows will be guaranteed a watch
Delivery will begin in May 2023 and conclusion depends on how many watches we have to make. Please note that deliveries may extend until the end of 2023 as it is dependent on how many watches are ordered.
Once the order windows close, we will not take any further orders. This variants of the 37.07 will be discontinued and not produced again
A few, final and cordial reminders:

Watches are only available at www.ming.watch on a first come, first serve basis.
There is a limit of one watch per customer.
Our ordering system has a cart hold. Once a watch is added to the cart, it is reserved for 5 minutes or until one payment attempt is completed. If you are unable to add a watch to cart immediately, we recommend trying back in a few minutes when holds may have been released.
We will email everybody on the respective lists but we have limited control over servers and syncing and cannot guarantee emails will arrive exactly on time.
At this time, we accept payments via VISA and MasterCard only.
Payment approvals and automated fraud checks are conducted by the issuing bank and not under our control.
We recommend the use of credit cards over debit cards
Please check with your bank that your card is 3D Secure enabled
We also recommend informing your bank about the transaction in advance. Payments are captured in Malaysia, the currency for the payment is Swiss Francs (CHF) and the entity is 'Horologer MING'.
We do not recommend the use of the 'AutoFill' feature on your browser for the credit card information. We recommend inputting the actual card number, expiry date and security code manually.
As always and if you have any additional questions, we remain at your disposal at [email protected].

- Team MING


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

And most important...the link to more pics:






Horologer MING - MING 37.07


MING 37.07




www.ming.watch


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




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## Enzo954 (Feb 7, 2011)

Doesn't really do it for me. Especially that white strap. At least give the option for different straps with the order. I can find better ways to spend $3400.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

I LOVE the dial. Surprised it's so thick being manual wind and no complications, but I imagine it's partly for the dial design and thickness. Not a huge fan of the white rubber strap, but I'm not a fan of rubber straps to begin with. 

If this was an automatic I'd consider buying it, but I have little interest in manual wind without a power reserve. I know myself, and it would drive me nuts over time and never get wrist time. Happy with the 22.01 purchase I have coming, but man that dial will make me a bit envious.


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## aldi (Feb 2, 2020)

Hands-On With The New MING 37.07 Fifth-Anniversary Edition


✓ The MING 37.07 arrives to celebrate the brand's fifth anniversary ✓ Bringing a stunning mosaic dial and hand-wound movement ✓ See it here ✓




www.fratellowatches.com


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> View attachment 16784088
> 
> 
> View attachment 16784089
> ...


What was that the other day?  I guess you assume people are too lazy to click on the link I provided with the pics!


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> View attachment 16784088
> 
> 
> View attachment 16784089
> ...


Oh god that's about as good a Ming can get to my tastes....


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> I LOVE the dial. Surprised it's so thick being manual wind and no complications, but I imagine it's partly for the dial design and thickness. Not a huge fan of the white rubber strap, but I'm not a fan of rubber straps to begin with.
> 
> If this was an automatic I'd consider buying it, but I have little interest in manual wind without a power reserve. I know myself, and it would drive me nuts over time and never get wrist time. Happy with the 22.01 purchase I have coming, but man that dial will make me a bit envious.


I had similar thoughts, it looks nice, but no regrets for ordering the 22.01 earlier in the year, a manual wind is not a selling point for me unless it brings with it a thinner case, and though the dial is nice, it's not as special as the mosaic dials (not unreasonably, given the price differential). 

The white strap is quite cool, but not very practical - I've tried white rubber on other watches and it gets quite dirty unless I am really careful, I couldn't wear it as an everyday option... 

Nice to see Ming continuing sub-5000 CHF pricing, I did think the prices would be going inexorably upwards...


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Decided to check out the specs after reading several complaints above about the thickness.

10.9mm, hmmm you guys really think that's too thick? I think it's in keeping with a sporty aesthetic. My apple watch clocks in at close to 13mm.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

zztopops said:


> Decided to check out the specs after reading several complaints above about the thickness.
> 
> 10.9mm, hmmm you guys really think that's too thick? I think it's in keeping with a sporty aesthetic. My apple watch clocks in at close to 13mm.


I don't think it's _too_ thick, it's just not thin either... sometimes manual watches have thinner cases because the movement can be thinner, as I understand it, but not in this case.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Seems pretty thin to me.....


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Seems pretty thin to me.....


I dunno, it's thicker than the 22.01 which is automatic and has a GMT complication (10.7mm). I would have expected something between the 27.01/27.02 at 6.9mm and the 22.01... so let's call it 9mm?


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

I guess I'm comparing it to other watches, not other mings - I see your point! But def wouldn't call it a thick watch by any stretch.

I really wish you could see these things in person before ordering them.


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## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

Tpp3975 said:


> If they want to be around a long time, they should dump the preorder model and sell watches that are available. A month or two - fine. A year is too much. Not everyone can just deploy 3 or 4k to someone without receiving anything on exchange. It’s basically a loan. I hope the revisit this sales model.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

TecTonic said:


>


These watches aren’t made for “…everyone…” they’re a small batch design centric watch brand that has no intention of large scale productions. They sell what they’re comfortable selling, and are successful doing it. If you don’t understand or like they’re business model, odds are you’re not their target customer and that’s ok.


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## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

So a dealer who can't get these watches, cries and screams and moans. WAHHHHH. Self serving. 

Ming did a time-interval release last time...and it created a year-long backlog. Ming said in the 37.07 announcement that deliveries would start in 2023...and might well extend _through_ 2023.

This isn't a massive company producing serial watches. It isn't...oh, say, anOrdain, where the long pole in the tent is the dial...those also can get batched. anOrdain goes with a pretty much stock Sellita (or now LJP as an option).

With a larger brand, with one that's less design-focused, with one that's less popular...I wouldn't be surprised they break 5000 orders between the 2 windows...a different model might work. But asserting they won't be around? Ranting about their model? Narrow minded, and most likely petulant.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

The alternative is surplus production - better for the shareholders and environment?








Why does Burberry destroy its products and how is it justified?


News that British fashion label destroyed £28m of clothes and cosmetics has raised questions




www.theguardian.com












Cartier owner destroys more than £400m of watches in two years


Richemont bought back stock from jewellers to stop it being sold at knockdown prices




www.theguardian.com












Amazon isn't alone in reportedly destroying unsold goods. Nike, Burberry, H&M and others have also come under fire for torching their own products.


Brands like Burberry, Cartier, H&M, and more have all had employees come out saying that these stores are participating in the destruction of goods.




www.businessinsider.com






Deposit = Skin in the game for buyers
Pre-orders = No wasteful unwanted inventory surplus
Supply and demand equilibrium.

How does the housing industry work? You put a deposit down for a home that will be built in 1-5 years. Not such a foreign concept - eh?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

TecTonic said:


>


He stole my material!


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

zztopops said:


> The alternative is surplus production - better for the shareholders and environment?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Blind love for this brand. Ming can do no wrong! Cult of Ming. Jeesch. Who waits 5 years for a house? Exaggerate much?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

zztopops said:


> The alternative is surplus production - better for the shareholders and environment?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow and if it wasn’t enough, you’re now referring to Ming’s model being good for the environment???? Whaaaaat. I thought I had seen it all.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Back to the watches themselves, what a beauty. Since I have no choice I may even consider trying to get one. Just hope I am still alive in late 2023. Hate the white strap selection however so there’s another $300 to solve that problem. What an odd choice. Too bold for a professional/office setting.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Kevkev1 said:


> If you don’t understand or like they’re business model, odds are you’re not their target customer and that’s ok.


Why do you say this? Based on what? I am exactly their target customer. And I don’t like the business model. I do understand it of course. It’s simple - they want you to capitalize their business because it’s cheaper than getting a loan or giving up equity. These concepts can exist independently. 

It’s ludicrous to think there is some higher purpose - like the environment or they want their customers to have “skin in the game”. No, they just want an internet free loan for a year. It’s not rocket science.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Tpp3975 said:


> Why do you say this? Based on what? I am exactly their target customer. And I don’t like the business model. I do understand it of course. It’s simple - they want you to capitalize their business because it’s cheaper than getting a loan or giving up equity. These concepts can exist independently.
> 
> It’s ludicrous to think there is some higher purpose - like the environment or they want their customers to have “skin in the game”. No, they just want an internet free loan for a year. It’s not rocket science.


Just go shop another brand 🙄. No one is forcing you to buy a Ming..Clearly they've violated every principle you hold dear as a buyer. After all your complains, would you even want to be caught wearing a Ming??? Think about the humiliation and shame your other like minded watch buddies will rain down on you....

Like I posted earlier you sound exactly like the frustrated Rolex shopper. And my recommendation to them, is shop another brand. Seriously, there are SOOOO many other brands out there that will offer a more compatible purchasing experience.



Tpp3975 said:


> Who waits 5 years for a house?


Try building a new $10mm home..


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> No, they just want an internet free loan for a year. It’s not rocket science.


Just to play devil's advocate - if the market price of the watch ends up higher than the price you paid at pre-order time, would you feel less negatively about it? Because that could count as interest paid for your loan, correct?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> Just to play devil's advocate - if the market price of the watch ends up higher than the price you paid at pre-order time, would you feel less negatively about it? Because that could count as interest paid for your loan, correct?


Honestly The deposit bothers me less than the wait. Just get some capital and start producing the watches and do a preorder for a couple of months. I’m sure they don’t want to overproduce but it seems unlikely at this point that they wouldn’t sell every watch they make.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Honestly The deposit bothers me less than the wait. Just get some capital and start producing the watches and do a preorder for a couple of months. I’m sure they don’t want to overproduce but it seems unlikely at this point that they wouldn’t sell every watch they make.


Probably they will at some point in the future do this when they feel their brand strength, demand and financial position is strong and stable enough.

For now, they get free working capital, 100% accurate stock focast, no need to worry about surplus stock so they have to sell at a discount or hold on to stock for long. It's a great position to be in for any manu/suppliers. 

From a customer perspective, yes I dont like to wait for a watch but then I am not a type where I want it and I want it right now. I waited ranging from 6 months to a year for other brands like JLC, Dornblueth, Kurono, Tudor etc.. Ming's wait is long but not to the extreme comparing to some other (Rolex lol). Furthermore, I am happy to put up 50% and wait if that means Ming (or any other brands that I support and have faith in that they will deliver) doesnt have to get working capital loan, build in cost of holding/discounting old stocks etc.. all this expenses get passed on to end users like ourselves.


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## klackakon (Mar 12, 2020)

I think the thickness has something to do with the domed sapphire crystal no?









Hands-On With The New MING 37.07 Fifth-Anniversary Edition


✓ The MING 37.07 arrives to celebrate the brand's fifth anniversary ✓ Bringing a stunning mosaic dial and hand-wound movement ✓ See it here ✓




www.fratellowatches.com


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

zztopops said:


> Try building a new $10mm home..


Um yeah. Not a problem I’ll ever have to worry about.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Honestly The deposit bothers me less than the wait. Just get some capital and start producing the watches and do a preorder for a couple of months. I’m sure they don’t want to overproduce but it seems unlikely at this point that they wouldn’t sell every watch they make.


I'm with you on every point you make.

I like the brand a lot and yes, I pre-ordered the 22.01, but I did so in spite of their business model, because I really liked the watch. Ming have clear evidence of every single model they make selling out, usually in minutes, rave reviews worldwide, and a track record of successful delivery: I find it hard to believe there are not channels for raising capital they could use if they wanted to. (Particularly since Ming Thien worked in corporate finance for some time.)

It's a little different when pre-orders = discounted price (I think Atelier Wen recently did something like this, where they will eventually produce more than the initial pre-order batch and sell the rest at a higher price). As it is, Ming are basically using their customers as a source of free finance. I understand why they do it, and I can't really blame them, but I don't have to like it. Just because we like a brand and want to buy their products doesn't mean we have to unconditionally accept everything about the company. I would be equally critical of any brand doing this. (And I'm also critical of Rolex because of the games they play, more critical because I have no interest in buying any Rolex at the moment.)


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

atvar said:


> I'm with you on every point you make.
> 
> I like the brand a lot and yes, I pre-ordered the 22.01, but I did so in spite of their business model, because I really liked the watch. Ming have clear evidence of every single model they make selling out, usually in minutes, rave reviews worldwide, and a track record of successful delivery: I find it hard to believe there are not channels for raising capital they could use if they wanted to. (Particularly since Ming Thien worked in corporate finance for some time.)
> 
> It's a little different when pre-orders = discounted price (I think Atelier Wen recently did something like this, where they will eventually produce more than the initial pre-order batch and sell the rest at a higher price). As it is, Ming are basically using their customers as a source of free finance. I understand why they do it, and I can't really blame them, but I don't have to like it. Just because we like a brand and want to buy their products doesn't mean we have to unconditionally accept everything about the company. I would be equally critical of any brand doing this. (And I'm also critical of Rolex because of the games they play, more critical because I have no interest in buying any Rolex at the moment.)


Just to play the devil’s advocate here, for those who think that Ming is ‘exploiting’ - this is the impression I get from reading the person you are quoting - consumers as a source of free loans, why don’t such persons buy the Ming watch when it becomes available on the secondary market? This way, they don’t have to part with their precious deposits which they can deploy for more fruitful purpose in the interim? 

I am not finance or business trained but I am sure one big reason Ming is sticking with their current business model is due to risk management, ie. what type and scale of risk Ming and his co-founders are willing to take at this point in time. Arguments can alway be made against the present business model, and this does not apply only to Ming but Rolex and other businesses. 

Personally I wish that Ming will have some form of travelling pop-up booth for example, never mind a shopfront, where I can try out their upcoming models before I plop down a sum of money for their watches which I have never seen other than via the photos available online. But I don’t go around posting and arguing repetitiously on my personal preference and calling others who disagree with me or explain Ming’s business model uncritical fanboys for example. I am more interested in seeing photos of beautiful Ming watches in this thread, not reading or having to avoid the posts questioning the so-called ethics of Ming’s business model and derailing this thread in the process.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> Just to play the devil’s advocate here, for those who think that Ming is ‘exploiting’ - this is the impression I get from reading the person you are quoting - consumers as a source of free loans, why don’t such persons buy the Ming watch when it becomes available on the secondary market? This way, they don’t have to part with their precious deposits which they can deploy for more fruitful purpose in the interim?


You clearly haven’t read what I wrote. That’s not what I said at all. I never used the word exploit. These are luxury watches. No one here is being exploited. What I said - and will keep saying - is the overall Ming business model stinks for several reasons. And if they want to grow into a more mainstream brand (and we don’t even know if they do) it’s going to have to change. Despite the handful of fanboys here defending Ming, the average watch fan won’t put up with Ming’s nonsense. To be clear, the interest free loan is only part of the problem but it’s not the entire problem. I’d argue most people here on WUS won’t even consider trying Ming because the model is so bad it’s not worth even bothering. And perhaps that’s why 4 or 5 of you keep defending it. I’m guessing you like the fact that club is exclusive and made up the 4 people on the planet who apparently don’t mind paying for something you won’t get for a year. And if Ming did business like a real grown up company, it may not be so exclusive anymore.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

atvar said:


> It's a little different when pre-orders = discounted price (I think Atelier Wen recently did something like this, where they will eventually produce more than the initial pre-order batch and sell the rest at a higher price).


This 100 percent. Now you’re giving me a choice. I can preorder now and loan you the money or I can choose to wait ( but a year to 18 months is still unreasonable under either scenario).
Halios is another example of an independent brand trying to figure this out. But Halios knows every watch will sell out and takes your money when then watches are mostly ready for delivery. The parts have been secured and assembly is underway. Usually they ship within a month or so of ordering. And the ordering frenzy is much like Ming’s.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> You clearly haven’t read what I wrote. That’s not what I said at all. I never used the word exploit. These are luxury watches. No one here is being exploited. What I said - and will keep saying - is the overall Ming business model stinks for several reasons. And if they want to grow into a more mainstream brand (and we don’t even know if they do) it’s going to have to change. Despite the handful of fanboys here defending Ming, the average watch fan won’t put up with Ming’s nonsense. To be clear, the interest free loan is only part of the problem but it’s not the entire problem. I’d argue most people here on WUS won’t even consider trying Ming because the model is so bad it’s not worth even bothering. And perhaps that’s why 4 or 5 of you keep defending it. I’m guessing you like the fact that club is exclusive and made up the 4 people on the planet who apparently don’t mind paying for something you won’t get for a year. And if Ming did business like a real grown up company, it may not be so exclusive anymore.


I concede defeat in the face of your nuclear strike, namely, designating me and others who disagree with you a ‘fanboy’. End of argument, you win. I get to learn something about myself I wasn’t even aware of until today haha.😂


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Since someone mentioned Atelier Wen, I’ll chime in on that release. They did do a sort of pre-release for 300 pieces of the new Perception at a lower or introductory price. Future orders will be at a higher price….I think it was originally intended to be around 400-500 more but with their improvements and prices going up it’s likely going to be in the 800 or so range. i ordered one and the wait is around 6 months. I think Offering a lower intro price is great but it benefits the select few that get in early. With AW I think it makes sense since they are still in the early phases of their business and are not as well known as Ming but not sure it would be something that Ming would ever entertain if the current model isn’t broke in their opinion.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> I concede defeat in the face of your nuclear strike, namely, designating me and others who disagree with you a ‘fanboy’. End of argument, you win. I get to learn something about myself I wasn’t even aware of until today haha.😂



*fanboy*


fan·boy | \ ˈfan-ˌbȯi \
*Definition of fanboy*

: a boy or man who is an extremely or overly enthusiastic fan of someone or something.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Tpp3975 said:


> You clearly haven’t read what I wrote. That’s not what I said at all. I never used the word exploit. These are luxury watches. No one here is being exploited. What I said - and will keep saying - is the overall Ming business model stinks for several reasons. And if they want to grow into a more mainstream brand (and we don’t even know if they do) it’s going to have to change. Despite the handful of fanboys here defending Ming, the average watch fan won’t put up with Ming’s nonsense. To be clear, the interest free loan is only part of the problem but it’s not the entire problem. I’d argue most people here on WUS won’t even consider trying Ming because the model is so bad it’s not worth even bothering. And perhaps that’s why 4 or 5 of you keep defending it. I’m guessing you like the fact that club is exclusive and made up the 4 people on the planet who apparently don’t mind paying for something you won’t get for a year. And if Ming did business like a real grown up company, it may not be so exclusive anymore.


it seems that if you admit that its a luxury product, then the game in luxury is to never grow into a mainstream brand. Otherwise you're out of the luxury game.

So everything else you say honestly just subjective.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

golffoxtrot said:


> it seems that if you admit that its a luxury product, then the game in luxury is to never grow into a mainstream brand. Otherwise you're out of the luxury game.
> 
> So everything else you say honestly just subjective.


Of course it’s subjective. These are opinions. This is a watch forum. Your point is a good one - Ming is playing the Rolex scarcity game.


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## Buschyfor3 (Nov 12, 2018)

LOL.

The justifications for this type of pre-order/business model and the post-purchase rationalizations from Ming owners in this thread (and on the comments page of another well-known watch periodical) are absolutely gold. 🤣


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> Of course it’s subjective. These are opinions. This is a watch forum. Your point is a good one - Ming is playing the Rolex scarcity game.


That's not a fair comparison. Rolex is at the point where it's "beg your AD, purchase other stuff, move up the list... or get ridiculously lucky." Ming's model is extremely straight forward on when and how you can purchase, and this will now be the second release with unlimited volume available during the order periods. Just because the wait times could be similar doesn't mean they're playing the same game, because one is verified and the other is sporadic as hell.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Cleverbs said:


> That's not a fair comparison. Rolex is at the point where it's "beg your AD, purchase other stuff, move up the list... or get ridiculously lucky." Ming's model is extremely straight forward on when and how you can purchase, and this will now be the second release with unlimited volume available during the order periods. Just because the wait times could be similar doesn't mean they're playing the same game, because one is verified and the other is sporadic as hell.


It wasn’t my comment. It was a comment from one of your fellow fanboys acknowledging that Ming is playing the hype/scarcity game. And if you don’t think they are then you are fooling yourself. I didn’t say Ming = Rolex. I said they are playing the scarcity/hype game and of course they are.
Unlimited volume in a 15 minute window where I’m probably going to get my cc declined is hardly straightforward and customer friendly. I get to roll the dice and see if Mastercard allows my purchase and if it’s declined per Ming’s rules the hold is released and I’m SOL. Sorry this a a brutal way to do business.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> It wasn’t my comment. It was a comment from one of your fellow fanboys acknowledging that Ming is playing the hype/scarcity game. And if you don’t think they are then you are fooling yourself. I didn’t say Ming = Rolex. I said they are playing the scarcity/hype game and of course they are.
> Unlimited volume in a 15 minute window where I’m probably going to get my cc declined is hardly straightforward and customer friendly. I get to roll the dice and see if Mastercard allows my purchase and if it’s declined per Ming’s rules the hold is released and I’m SOL. Sorry this a a brutal way to do business.


You are exhausting.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> You are exhausting.


He is an ’interesting’ dude. His arguments appear to shift from post to post as he responds to others, and he appears to understand what people are saying differently from what is being said and meant. Posts #2,146 and 2,147 for example. 

He also appears to contradict himself at times such as saying that Ming’s model is so bad many people - the average person - aside from 4 so-called fanboys (I guess I am included haha) will not bother with the brand but at the same time asserting Ming should abandon their model and start producing watches to stock up and won’t have difficulties selling their watches like Halios … As if WIS in general think like MBAs who care more about business models than the actual watches themselves?

I wonder if he is trolling us In this thread?


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## 9101.21 (Jul 18, 2013)

This thread is supposed to be about fun, learning and the enjoyment of Ming watches. 

Stirring the pot just to belabor one's point/agenda is not cool (it might be if the brand was offensive and treating customers with disdain, but Ming isn't). 

Folks, we should know better than to oblige a troll by taking the bait and playing its game 🙄


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> ...But I don’t go around posting and arguing repetitiously on my personal preference and calling others who disagree with me or explain Ming’s business model uncritical fanboys for example. I am more interested in seeing photos of beautiful Ming watches in this thread, not reading or having to avoid the posts questioning the so-called ethics of Ming’s business model and derailing this thread in the process.





9101.21 said:


> This thread is supposed to be about fun, learning and the enjoyment of Ming watches.
> 
> Stirring the pot just to belabor one's point/agenda is not cool (it might be if the brand was offensive and treating customers with disdain, but Ming isn't).
> 
> Folks, we should know better than to oblige a troll by taking the bait and playing its game 🙄


I do think there is a genuine (polite and respectful) discussion that could be held about Ming's business model, but in view of these comments and not wanting to cause offense to anyone, I'll say no more on the subject, happy to let the conversation move on


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Let’s review how Friday is likely to go and how bad it is for the consumer.
Option 1 - I rearrange my schedule to be available at exactly 930 am in hopes of getting an order in. This means dealing with work and my kids and making sure I am free from distraction. Credit card ready. 930 comes. Voila! I get an order in. Ming has my 1650 now for free for the next 15 to 16 months and I will eventually get my watch. This stinks. I don’t have my 1650 or a watch for over a year. While tolerable it is far from a “good” experience

Option 2 - same as option 1 but my cc company declines the transaction and I can’t get it sorted and the 15 minutes end. This stinks. Just went to all this effort and no watch.

Options 1 and 2 both stink. I still might do it. Not because I like it but because if I want the watch, I have no choice in the matter (option 3 would be to pay 4500 for the same watch when they are released which also stinks).


Raindrops said:


> He is an ’interesting’ dude. His arguments appear to shift from post to post as he responds to others, and he appears to understand what people are saying differently from what is being said and meant. Posts #2,146 and 2,147 for example.
> 
> He also appears to contradict himself at times such as saying that Ming’s model is so bad many people - the average person - aside from 4 so-called fanboys (I guess I am included haha) will not bother with the brand but at the same time asserting Ming should abandon their model and start producing watches to stock up and won’t have difficulties selling their watches like Halios … As if WIS in general think like MBAs who care more about business models than the actual watches themselves?
> 
> I wonder if he is trolling us In this thread?


This is incomprehensible. I think I’ve been pretty clear and consistent on my position. I’m ready to move on in any event as the issues have been exhausted. I have no agenda. I like Ming’s watches. I own one. I may order another. I just dislike the process and think it can be improved considerably. I think the process is holding Ming back from becoming more mainstream and loved. And I think many of you here don’t want Ming to become more mainstream and loved because it would mean less exclusivity to you.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

9101.21 said:


> Folks, we should know better than to oblige a troll by taking the bait and playing its game 🙄


A troll in your view is anyone who might disagree with you? That makes you the troll.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

atvar said:


> I do think there is a genuine (polite and respectful) discussion that could be held about Ming's business model, but in view of these comments and not wanting to cause offense to anyone, I'll say no more on the subject, happy to let the conversation move on


I don’t think anyone has any issue with any proper and civil discussion. At least I don’t. 

The issue here seems to be this particular poster who has been posting and ‘arguing’ in his own strange fashion for a few pages why he thinks Ming’s model is bad and so on even when others have tried to explain why things are the way they are. If you have missed the earlier posts, you can check out singularityseven’s post #2,097 which summarises very well what is going on. His other posts have also done much to shed light on this matter I think.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> He is an ’interesting’ dude. His arguments appear to shift from post to post as he responds to others, and he appears to understand what people are saying differently from what is being said and meant. Posts #2,146 and 2,147 for example.
> 
> He also appears to contradict himself at times such as saying that Ming’s model is so bad many people - the average person - aside from 4 so-called fanboys (I guess I am included haha) will not bother with the brand but at the same time asserting Ming should abandon their model and start producing watches to stock up and won’t have difficulties selling their watches like Halios … As if WIS in general think like MBAs who care more about business models than the actual watches themselves?
> 
> I wonder if he is trolling us In this thread?


It's amusing to me that you think I'm the one shifting positions. So far in this thread, in an effort to rationalize Ming's business model, we have someone suggesting that Ming's business model is (a) better for the environment and (b) akin to purchasing a $10 million house. Really? And you choose to attack me?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> I don’t think anyone has any issue with any proper and civil discussion. At least I don’t.


So long was we agree with you, you don't.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Anyone here takes lume photo of their Ming/s vs other watches? Lets share them!!😆😆😆


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## Enzo954 (Feb 7, 2011)

Can we talk about the effing watch and not Mings method of collecting advance deposits! If you don't like it then shop elsewhere.


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## ms55 (Jan 31, 2017)

Exactly this @Enzo954, I want to talk about that design and everything else about the watch, not their business model (whether you love it or hate it).

I dont know if people saw the hands-on review here: Hands-On With The New MING 37.07 Fifth-Anniversary Edition

But it looks pretty amazing IMO. And if you don't like the white strap, you can always switch it out easily since it looks like they put the quick release on em


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Any thoughts on the latest 37.07 vs the 20.11 mosaic. The former appears to accomplish the aesthetic of the latter at a significantly lower cost. 

I guess what is the benefit of the sapphire etching of the 20.11; an unnecessary manufacturing complication?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

zztopops said:


> Any thoughts on the latest 37.07 vs the 20.11 mosaic. The former appears to accomplish the aesthetic of the latter at a significantly lower cost.
> 
> I guess what is the benefit of the sapphire etching of the 20.11; an unnecessary manufacturing complication?


As someone who has lusted over the 20.11 ever since its announcement, and read the MING blogposts about it I think the 20.11 will be a lot more intricate and three dimensional. The 20.11 laser etching is done to emulate different opacities and a sense of fading at many diffferent depths of the sapphire layer. 











The 37.07 is an awesome approximation, using 3 separate layers - one appears to be a base layer with a pattern off super luminova, and a combination of printed black triangles and a circular fading on the bottom and top surface of the sapphire layer of the dial. I think this is a very clever use of brass dial base + sapphire to generate a pattern with three layers of depth to it, and one that is more cost effective than their 3D sapphire etching process.










So while they both achieve a 3D mosaic pattern, I think the 20.11 will look like it has more depth to it whereas the 37.07 might appear a bit 'shallower'. Either way I think the 37.07 will make for an impressive in-person experience and I'm very impressed with the fact that they pulled this entire thing (customized SW210 and multi layered dial) off for CHF 3250. As someone who continues to regret not purchasing the 20.11, I would still jump at the opportunity to buy one even with the 37.07 being available. But that also has to do with the fact that I love the 20 series case - both the size and the hollowed case design.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

@singularityseven Thanks for the in-depth comparison. The 37.07 sure looks like a winner. MT is a lume fiend 😆


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

downunder888 said:


> Anyone here takes lume photo of their Ming/s vs other watches? Lets share them!!😆😆😆
> 
> View attachment 16786787


I did a similar lume show-down a few weeks ago with some watches I had on hand - Grand Seiko SBGE275, MING 17.09 Blue, Formex Essence 39 and a Wicked Pearl Diver (an affordable microbrand that's using the same ceramic casted lume that Tudor, Sarpaneva, MING in some watches, etc are using). I was very impressed with how the MING performed, particularly against the Grand Seiko since Seiko's LumiBrite is (was) considered to be one of the best in the industry.

You can jump to around 1:30 for a direct comparison timelapse.


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## Gazza74 (Jul 27, 2013)

Tpp3975 said:


> I think the process is holding Ming back from becoming more mainstream and loved.


I’m not sure why you keep saying this when Ming have stated several times that they don’t want to become mainstream, and that the current level of sales is all they can handle without sacrificing quality. Ming could easily sell more watches, the evidence is how quickly they sell out and how most of the time they go for over retail on the used market. I’d say they are already pretty well loved.

I do agree that the sales windows / problematic credit card platform stinks, however once you’ve got things figured out credit card-wise you should be guaranteed to snag one on Friday.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Wearing my Ming 17.09 Blue on a Delugs strap:


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Gazza74 said:


> I’m not sure why you keep saying this when Ming have stated several times that they don’t want to become mainstream, and that the current level of sales is all they can handle without sacrificing quality. Ming could easily sell more watches, the evidence is how quickly they sell out and how most of the time they go for over retail on the used market. I’d say they are already pretty well loved.
> 
> I do agree that the sales windows / problematic credit card platform stinks, however once you’ve got things figured out credit card-wise you should be guaranteed to snag one on Friday.


We’ve moved past this person. Everyone has an opinion, this one is just looking to pick an argument with anyone because they have nothing else better to do.
I really appreciate the breakdown between the 20.11 and the 37.07. I wonder if the future mosaic design language will trickle into their gmt and diver models…


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Finally received the 17.09 Blue today. That took over a year. Quite a cool watch though. Certainly doesn’t look like anything else I have and the lume view is particularly beautiful. The strap is suburb.

I don’t get the pouch though. Very well made but too large for a single watch, won’t fit two watches.. For a brand so focused on details, a strange miss. Anyone found a practical use for it?


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Its in the box put away with other boxes haha


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

Raindrops said:


> Wearing my Ming 17.09 Blue on a Delugs strap:
> View attachment 16788080


Is that the Light Grey Chevre Slim (Curved) Strap? My 17.09 blue arrives today and looking for a couple of different strap options, love the blue and grey combination here 

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Pogo247 said:


> Is that the Light Grey Chevre Slim (Curved) Strap? My 17.09 blue arrives today and looking for a couple of different strap options, love the blue and grey combination here
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


It is a made-to-order Epsom or Saffiano I got from Delugs 2-3 years ago. I am unable to find the email for this particular strap but it is mostly likely an Epsom like the earlier made-to-order navy strap I had posted for the 17.09 Burgundy pic.

Anyway, the different types of leather shouldn’t matter much since most people can’t tell the difference only that they are from different regions/tanneries. Good luck whichever strap you choose!


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## beefeater (May 18, 2015)

nitron135 said:


> I don’t get the pouch though. Very well made but too large for a single watch, won’t fit two watches.. For a brand so focused on details, a strange miss. Anyone found a practical use for it?





downunder888 said:


> Its in the box put away with other boxes haha


Same! Was wondering if maybe I'd travel with it, but it doesn't seem very secure. Mine is also currently just sitting in the original box.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Has anyone tried the 17.09 blue strap in water? Being that the strap is Alcantara and rubber and 17.09 is 100m wr, _seems_ like it may be surprisingly ok?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

nitron135 said:


> Has anyone tried the 17.09 blue strap in water? Being that the strap is Alcantara and rubber and 17.09 is 100m wr, _seems_ like it may be surprisingly ok?


I haven't taken the Alcantara into a pool, but I have washed it and they seem to handle rain etc. without issue.


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

Anyone here planning to order the 37.07 today? I'm still undecided. The last two more affordable ming releases I've had a bit of regret not ordering, so I might order the 37.07 anyways. I wish there was another picture of it in "normal" lighting or something


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> Anyone here planning to order the 37.07 today? I'm still undecided. The last two more affordable ming releases I've had a bit of regret not ordering, so I might order the 37.07 anyways. I wish there was another picture of it in "normal" lighting or something


Not planning to order it though it looks tempting. Need to keep my funds available for other potential watches in the future. I am not like a pokemon trainer who’s gotta catch ’em all haha.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> Anyone here planning to order the 37.07 today? I'm still undecided. The last two more affordable ming releases I've had a bit of regret not ordering, so I might order the 37.07 anyways. I wish there was another picture of it in "normal" lighting or something


Did you check out the Fratello article? That seems to be the only one with "real life" pics - Hands-On With The New MING 37.07 Fifth-Anniversary Edition


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## edotkim (Jan 1, 2017)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> Anyone here planning to order the 37.07 today? I'm still undecided. The last two more affordable ming releases I've had a bit of regret not ordering, so I might order the 37.07 anyways. I wish there was another picture of it in "normal" lighting or something


@TheSeikoGuy Have you seen the Fratello write-up on the 37.07? They seem to be the only publication that got hands-on time with the prototype and, as a consequence, are the only pub that has non-studio shots of the 37.07, including a wrist shot.

To your first question, assuming my card works with Ming's ordering system, I am planning to order the 37.07 today. I've been interested in Ming for a while, but this is the first model that I've felt compelled to buy.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> Anyone here planning to order the 37.07 today? I'm still undecided. The last two more affordable ming releases I've had a bit of regret not ordering, so I might order the 37.07 anyways. I wish there was another picture of it in "normal" lighting or something


I'm skipping this one. Have a 22.01 on the way already. I love the dial of the 37.07, but wish it was an automatic for how thick it is.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Hmmm 37.07 as a 20.11 daily 'beater'?


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

well I honestly wasn't going to buy one but I decided to yolo it because if it turns out stunning IRL I know i'll have major fomo


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## gsroppsa (Jan 5, 2013)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> Anyone here planning to order the 37.07 today? I'm still undecided.


Just placed my order for one. Whole process went pretty smoothly. Now the long wait for delivery!


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

Just placed my order because why the hell not


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

yellowfury said:


> well I honestly wasn't going to buy one but I decided to yolo it because if it turns out stunning IRL I know i'll have major fomo


I have no idea what half these freaking abbreviations mean (yolo, irl, fomo) but I assume you bought one for whatever reason it may be. 🤷‍♂️ I did too.


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

christianj said:


> I have no idea what half these freaking abbreviations mean (yolo, irl, fomo) but I assume you bought one for whatever reason it may be. 🤷‍♂️ I did too.


"You only live once" (YOLO) so you don't want "Fear of missing out" (FOMO) on this new Ming


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

christianj said:


> I have no idea what half these freaking abbreviations mean (yolo, irl, fomo) but I assume you bought one for whatever reason it may be. 🤷‍♂️ I did too.


i decided why not buy it on the off chance I'll regret not buying it later


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

yellowfury said:


> well I honestly wasn't going to buy one but I decided to yolo it because if it turns out stunning IRL I know i'll have major fomo





TheSeikoGuy said:


> Just placed my order because why the hell not


Yeah, same. Not the best reason to buy a watch, but it's a lot of watch for the money.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

I’m sure everyone will be disappointed that I am passing on it but a friend said the order process went very smoothly. That’s certainly an improvement. It’s a beautiful watch although not for me personally. Congrats to all those who purchase. I’m still digging my 18.01.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Tpp3975 said:


> I’m sure everyone will be disappointed that I am passing on it but a friend said the order process went very smoothly. That’s certainly an improvement. It’s a beautiful watch although not for me personally. Congrats to all those who purchase. I’m still digging my 18.01.


That 18.01 is my white whale right now. I keep holding out hope that ming will make another diver.


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## Friday (Sep 6, 2013)

Have also pulled the trigger. Will be my first MING watch. The order process was pretty smooth and they promised to provide more precise estimates of shipping dates shortly.

Does anyone know where they ship their watches from? Want to avoid customs charges if possible...))

PS. do not really like the white strap - but should not be a problem to replace. Does MING sells straps?


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

I am skipping this one as already have a 37.05 and 22.01 in the works. Like so many else, waiting for another diver from Ming!


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## Friday (Sep 6, 2013)

I never owned a MING. How do you like them in general?


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

These will be my first Mings as well. Delivery is somewhere between the end of this year and early next year. I did get a chance to handle the 17.09 recently, and was pretty impressed with what I saw.


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## dpap (Jun 29, 2010)

Did anyone get an email confirmation? My card was approved but I didn’t get anything from them yet…


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## Friday (Sep 6, 2013)

Friday said:


> Have also pulled the trigger. Will be my first MING watch. The order process was pretty smooth and they promised to provide more precise estimates of shipping dates shortly.
> 
> Does anyone know where they ship their watches from? Want to avoid customs charges if possible...))
> 
> PS. do not really like the white strap - but should not be a problem to replace. Does MING sells straps?


Hoooray!! Looks like someone from MING is reading this forum))






Horologer MING - Strap Choices For The MING 37.07







www.ming.watch


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Nice that they are giving those of us another strap option…..but sadly I like the brown less than the white.

Next task on WUS will be for us to try and figure out how many pieces they sold based on order numbers since they don’t typically tell us the final number if I remember correctly from the 17.09 release.



dpap said:


> Did anyone get an email confirmation? My card was approved but I didn’t get anything from them yet…


Yes, got email confirmation about 10 minutes later.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

christianj said:


> I have no idea what half these freaking abbreviations mean (yolo, irl, fomo) but I assume you bought one for whatever reason it may be. 🤷‍♂️ I did too.


It's never a good reason to buy another watch, except the ones we tell ourselves to justify it 🤣🤣



WizardofWatch said:


> These will be my first Mings as well. Delivery is somewhere between the end of this year and early next year. I did get a chance to handle the 17.09 recently, and was pretty impressed with what I saw.


If my memort serves, delivery start mid toward end next year and may be longer depending on the number of orders. So hold on tight and buy another watch or 2 while you wait. I know I did lol



christianj said:


> Next task on WUS will be for us to try and figure out how many pieces they sold based on order numbers since they don’t typically tell us the final number if I remember correctly from the 17.09 release.


Did we find out how many 17.09 sold? I think it will be a tough task 😅😅


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Friday said:


> Does anyone know where they ship their watches from? Want to avoid customs charges if possible...))


I think they ship from singapore/malay. 

One thing I find out when I received my 17.09 is my inport is half of what it supposed to be cause Ming invoice declared to custom is only for the 50% of the bill, not the total price including 50% deposit. That's my experience and I am not complaning.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@downunder888 I think based on the order numbers the estimate was around 3000 units but quantity was of course never confirmed by Ming,


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> Anyone here planning to order the 37.07 today? I'm still undecided. The last two more affordable ming releases I've had a bit of regret not ordering, so I might order the 37.07 anyways. I wish there was another picture of it in "normal" lighting or something


I am gonna pass on this one. Still waiting for the 37.05 which should come toward end of august. Gonna save the fund for something else Ming might come up with.


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## Psudonim (11 mo ago)

I just got my first Ming. The 18.01 diver. At first I was a little unsure about the Ming aesthetic applied to a diver. I did not like the bracelet so was wearing it with the rubber Rousseau strap. For some reason I was not clicking with the watch and was feeling a profound sense of buyer's remorse. 

Changed the strap today to something a bit more casual (but not waterproof) and feeling a lot better about the look. Going to be wearing the Ming a lot in the next few days . And my daughter loves how it glows in the dark


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

The new strap option for the 37.07 looks quite good!


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

christianj said:


> @downunder888 I think based on the order numbers the estimate was around 3000 units but quantity was of course never confirmed by Ming,


That includes the 300 or 500 pieces in the first release which was only for existing owners, right?

This time they do 2 x time limit release. I wouldnt be surprise if it at least double that. Considering they a longer time 15 mins vs 10 mins and they have worked out a lot of issue with order and payment process.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Psudonim said:


> I just got my first Ming. The 18.01 diver. At first I was a little unsure about the Ming aesthetic applied to a diver. I did not like the bracelet so was wearing it with the rubber Rousseau strap. For some reason I was not clicking with the watch and was feeling a profound sense of buyer's remorse.
> 
> Changed the strap today to something a bit more casual (but not waterproof) and feeling a lot better about the look. Going to be wearing the Ming a lot in the next few days . And my daughter loves how it glows in the dark


That leather strap looks excellent. It gives me more "tool watch" vibes than the black rubber did.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

downunder888 said:


> This time they do 2 x time limit release. I wouldnt be surprise if it at least double that. Considering they a longer time 15 mins vs 10 mins and they have worked out a lot of issue with order and payment process.


Release window is definite longer but I think the fact that watch is nearly 2x as expensive might deter some. Definitely think it will be more but I wouldn’t think as high as you’re thinking.



singularityseven said:


> That leather strap looks excellent. It gives me more "tool watch" vibes than the black rubber did.


True! I’m not a brown fan so I would have wished for a gray tone strap which I think would have played well of the dial.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

christianj said:


> Release window is definite longer but I think the fact that watch is nearly 2x as expensive might deter some. Definitely think it will be more but I wouldn’t think as high as you’re thinking.


You might be right there, mate.

Has anyone order the new straps they just released? That should give us some idea where the order number starts for the 37.07.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Friday said:


> I never owned a MING. How do you like them in general?


I have the 17.09 and so far its awesome allround. Its very comfy to wear on my 6.5 wrist, stunning look and I get tons of compliments on its look.


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## Skitalets (Oct 22, 2008)

I just preordered the 37.07 in the second window, my first Ming. The process was painless outside of clicking the link a few times until the window opened. 

I’m excited. From the photos of the watch and other Mings online, I feel like I’ll love it or be totally disinterested. It’s a very specific design language. The lume across the entire dial on the 37.07 looks really promising though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> That 18.01 is my white whale right now. I keep holding out hope that ming will make another diver.


They have to be making a next generation diver, I’m guessing with the mosaic center dial. The first diver has 1km water resistance, which I wonder if they’ll reduce for the sake of an even more slender case design. Honestly, I will have an extremely hard time not buying their next diver when it comes around…


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Friday said:


> I never owned a MING. How do you like them in general?


Love them, I own 2 and have been a fan since they launched 5 years ago. Their earlier models were really affordable but quality of materials (like hands and dial) were reflective of the price point. These models today are still a descendant of the original design language and really unique in the offering compared to other brands period. Some people love and some hate certain design cues, like the flared lug designs and curved spring bars/straps. Over years of owning Ming watches you really understand why they have stuck with it- the flared lugs and curved strap really drive home the very original (albeit more costly) way the watch sits on the wrist. Again, not for everyone, but there’s not much to compare them to so either you value that enough to own or you don’t.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> The new strap option for the 37.07 looks quite good!
> 
> View attachment 16793007


I’m really curious whether they offered a different strap option based on chatter throughout the web, although the photos look incredible and certainly not rushed.


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

Kevkev1 said:


> They have to be making a next generation diver, I’m guessing with the mosaic center dial. The first diver has 1km water resistance, which I wonder if they’ll reduce for the sake of an even more slender case design. Honestly, I will have an extremely hard time not buying their next diver when it comes around…


Yep, I hope that is the case! I owned the 18.01 (bought secondhand) for a few months and I found the case a bit too tall for my liking. I usually dont have an issue with thickness, but when the diameter is compact too sometimes the proportions get a bit weird.

A slim 300M diver with their new design language would be an instant buy!


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## RetroEffect (Aug 4, 2019)

downunder888 said:


> You might be right there, mate.
> 
> Has anyone order the new straps they just released? That should give us some idea where the order number starts for the 37.07.


I bought one of the new straps a week ago - order number was 2022-040XX.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

My 37.07 order number is in the 43xx range….more specific between 4335-4355….. and bought last night and completed in first 2-3 minutes or so.


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## Skitalets (Oct 22, 2008)

christianj said:


> My 37.07 order number is in the 43xx range….more specific between 4335-4355….. and bought last night and completed in first 2-3 minutes or so.


Mine (very start of second window) was in the 4940s. So six hundred watches at least from last night if it’s sequential. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

downunder888 said:


> I am gonna pass on this one. Still waiting for the 37.05 which should come toward end of august. Gonna save the fund for something else Ming might come up with.


Mines supposed to come by September. So following you to see when yours arrives! 😬


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

WizardofWatch said:


> Mines supposed to come by September. So following you to see when yours arrives! 😬


Was this your original timeline or are you including the one month delay announce?


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

nitron135 said:


> Has anyone tried the 17.09 blue strap in water? Being that the strap is Alcantara and rubber and 17.09 is 100m wr, _seems_ like it may be surprisingly ok?


I'd say the Alcantara strap is good for freshwater - I think it could get gross with seawater


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

christianj said:


> Was this your original timeline or are you including the one month delay announce?


Oops! Must have missed the delay announcement. Where did they say that? This is my original date.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

christianj said:


> My 37.07 order number is in the 43xx range….more specific between 4335-4355….. and bought last night and completed in first 2-3 minutes or so.


my order number is earlier than yours (still in the 43s) and I got in at minute 1.


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> my order number is earlier than yours (still in the 43s) and I got in at minute 1.


Mine is in the 42 range, ordered as soon as possible but was still a little slow


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Psudonim said:


> I just got my first Ming. The 18.01 diver. At first I was a little unsure about the Ming aesthetic applied to a diver. I did not like the bracelet so was wearing it with the rubber Rousseau strap. For some reason I was not clicking with the watch and was feeling a profound sense of buyer's remorse.
> 
> Changed the strap today to something a bit more casual (but not waterproof) and feeling a lot better about the look. Going to be wearing the Ming a lot in the next few days . And my daughter loves how it glows in the dark


Hey I’m always curious about other Ming diver owners- do you use the bezel to time things often? It’s such a unique design, but I have no idea how much it’s used.


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## gsroppsa (Jan 5, 2013)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> Mine is in the 42 range, ordered as soon as possible but was still a little slow


Low 43s here, finalised about 2 or 3 minutes in...


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

WizardofWatch said:


> Mines supposed to come by September. So following you to see when yours arrives! 😬


I got my order during the first release for existing owners so it's a little ealier. Will post photo when it arrives 😁😁



christianj said:


> Was this your original timeline or are you including the one month delay announce?


I didnt hear or receive any comms about a delay. Hope that wont be the case which is unlikely lol. Havent heard anything since launch.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Skitalets said:


> Mine (very start of second window) was in the 4940s. So six hundred watches at least from last night if it’s sequential.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


So there should be arond 900 watches up to your order since RetroEffect ordered the straps before 1st launch. It's should be sequential, thats how we estimate it last time with the 17.09.


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## Psudonim (11 mo ago)

Kevkev1 said:


> Hey I’m always curious about other Ming diver owners- do you use the bezel to time things often? It’s such a unique design, but I have no idea how much it’s used.


the bezel is the thing I like least about the watch. It lacks real functionality and after 15 minutes it's only a good approximation of elapsed time. 
I am warming to the Ming but would not be upset if I got the insurance money


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Psudonim said:


> the bezel is the thing I like least about the watch. It lacks real functionality and after 15 minutes it's only a good approximation of elapsed time.
> I am warming to the Ming but would not be upset if I got the insurance money


Lol strange, idk about lacking real functionality (seems a bit drastic). Hopefully you find less destructive ways to unload the watch


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

WizardofWatch said:


> Oops! Must have missed the delay announcement. Where did they say that? This is my original date.


I was in the existing owner batch for the 37.05 Moon as well and I don’t remember where I think I saw the delay mentioned but if you look back at the original announcement, orders were supposed to start being delivered in a July. So far I haven’t heard or seen any news of anyone getting their 37.05 yet so July deliveries are definitely not happening which kind of indicates a delay of around a month. I hope I may have confused the delay with one of the many other watches I have on order but reality is not a single watch has surfaced anywhere on social other then Ming Theins own.



downunder888 said:


> So there should be arond 900 watches up to your order since RetroEffect ordered the straps before 1st launch. It's should be sequential, thats how we estimate it last time with the 17.09.


I would think the 900 (or 800 to 900) units is a pretty good guess based on the numbers for the FIRST window. If the second release window started in the 4900s (based on @Skitalets post) we just need to see if anyone on the tail end of the second release reports back with their order number.


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

For those keeping track, my order was in 428x and was processed in the first minute of the first window.


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## rnoldelf (Oct 9, 2020)

Ming Watch under the retail price on the secondary market?







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chaosman (Mar 25, 2009)

I’m at 47xx and got mine 5 minutes into the first drop


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## a.watch.in.the.hand (Aug 15, 2021)

43xxx for me. Got my confirmation email at 2 minutes after the hour.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

rnoldelf said:


> Ming Watch under the retail price on the secondary market?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There’s always examples of this - definitely at outlier for the 18.01. I just bought my diver in mint condition for $4400 on bracelet which was over retail but lower than they have been recently. There aren’t many around for sale but i don’t think this is a trend. That said, the Ming blue is widely available for under 3k. Dozens upon dozens In the classifieds.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> There’s always examples of this - definitely at outlier for the 18.01. I just bought my diver in mint condition for $4400 on bracelet which was over retail but lower than they have been recently. There aren’t many around for sale but i don’t think this is a trend. That said, the Ming blue is widely available for under 3k. Dozens upon dozens In the classifieds.


Yeah people like to do things like that for the clickbait videos. It'll be interesting when the moonphase and GMT get into people's hands and what resale is on those.


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## Friday (Sep 6, 2013)

dpap said:


> Did anyone get an email confirmation? My card was approved but I didn’t get anything from them yet…


if you are talking about order confirmation - I have received it almost immediately after placing an order. They mentioned that within 5 days they will send another e-mail with delivery estimates


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Tpp3975 said:


> There’s always examples of this - definitely at outlier for the 18.01. I just bought my diver in mint condition for $4400 on bracelet which was over retail but lower than they have been recently. There aren’t many around for sale but i don’t think this is a trend. That said, the Ming blue is widely available for under 3k. Dozens upon dozens In the classifieds.


yeah the 17.09 series has been more reasonable on the market (thanks in part to the unlimited production window). Likely we’ll see something similar with the latest release which I think is good. I think this is Ming’s attempt to at least get a grip on the insane used prices and negative goodwill that comes with it.


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## yskhyr (Oct 17, 2017)

yellowfury said:


> yeah the 17.09 series has been more reasonable on the market (thanks in part to the unlimited production window). Likely we’ll see something similar with the latest release which I think is good. I think this is Ming’s attempt to at least get a grip on the insane used prices and negative goodwill that comes with it.


Yea, this has always been a hard one - people loathe the idea of paying over retail for a watch, and people also loathe losing money on a watch that they've bought (of course this has historically always been the expectation, but the crazy market of the past couple years has warped people's expectations).

In some sense, this puts watch companies in a lose-lose position - when a watch sells over retail, people often find ways to direct that frustration toward the company making the watch ("they're playing games with artificial scarcity," "they don't make enough," "their way of selling watches sucks," etc.). Or they decry the interest in the watch as "hype," regardless of whether that's true or not, or whether the company has anything to do with it. When watches sell for under retail, though, people are wary not only because they don't like to lose money, but more critically, they often take it as a sign that the watch isn't worth what the company is charging for it, that the watch and/or the company that makes it is going downhill, that it's overpriced or overrated, etc.

I don't think there's really any "right answer" from the company's standpoint, because you really can't make everyone happy no matter what you do - not everyone's interests are aligned, and even for any given person, what's in their self interest today may not be in their self interest in the future. Someone may applaud Ming's unlimited order windows today because it means they were able to place an order without hassle, and then that person could decry that same business model down the line when they need to sell that watch because "they made too many" and the market's depressed. There's no ideal solution because everything's a trade-off.


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## rnoldelf (Oct 9, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> There’s always examples of this - definitely at outlier for the 18.01. I just bought my diver in mint condition for $4400 on bracelet which was over retail but lower than they have been recently. There aren’t many around for sale but i don’t think this is a trend. That said, the Ming blue is widely available for under 3k. Dozens upon dozens In the classifieds.


Thanks for the input! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rnoldelf (Oct 9, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> Yeah people like to do things like that for the clickbait videos. It'll be interesting when the moonphase and GMT get into people's hands and what resale is on those.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rnoldelf (Oct 9, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> yeah the 17.09 series has been more reasonable on the market (thanks in part to the unlimited production window). Likely we’ll see something similar with the latest release which I think is good. I think this is Ming’s attempt to at least get a grip on the insane used prices and negative goodwill that comes with it.


The new release would be my first Ming! Thanks for the information! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yskhyr said:


> Yea, this has always been a hard one - people loathe the idea of paying over retail for a watch, and people also loathe losing money on a watch that they've bought (of course this has historically always been the expectation, but the crazy market of the past couple years has warped people's expectations).
> 
> In some sense, this puts watch companies in a lose-lose position - when a watch sells over retail, people often find ways to direct that frustration toward the company making the watch ("they're playing games with artificial scarcity," "they don't make enough," "their way of selling watches sucks," etc.). Or they decry the interest in the watch as "hype," regardless of whether that's true or not, or whether the company has anything to do with it. When watches sell for under retail, though, people are wary not only because they don't like to lose money, but more critically, they often take it as a sign that the watch isn't worth what the company is charging for it, that the watch and/or the company that makes it is going downhill, that it's overpriced or overrated, etc.
> 
> I don't think there's really any "right answer" from the company's standpoint, because you really can't make everyone happy no matter what you do - not everyone's interests are aligned, and even for any given person, what's in their self interest today may not be in their self interest in the future. Someone may applaud Ming's unlimited order windows today because it means they were able to place an order without hassle, and then that person could decry that same business model down the line when they need to sell that watch because "they made too many" and the market's depressed. There's no ideal solution because everything's a trade-off.


Very well said.


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## Friday (Sep 6, 2013)

WizardofWatch said:


> Mines supposed to come by September. So following you to see when yours arrives! 😬


How do you know about September? Have you received anything from MING? The reason I am asking that I have not received anything after initial order confirmation...


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Friday said:


> How do you know about September? Have you received anything from MING? The reason I am asking that I have not received anything after initial order confirmation...


Just to make sure you are not confusing the comments on the delivery dates:

1. Everyone that bought the 37.05 a couple of months ago got an email a couple of days after the purchase with an estimated delivery date....hence WizardofWatch's comments about September. 

2. The 37.07 delivery date estimates should still be forthcoming since the orders were just placed last week.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

This ^^^


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Some new announcements from MING today:

Giveaway: Ming Watch

Policy changes: Ming Watch

This case looks pretty badass. I hope they also make them available for purchase. A fanboy like me needs more swag.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

I hope buying a strap and having a 22.01 on order qualifies me for the giveaway.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Love the case and I think policy changes makes logical sense. Why should someone that bought a Ming with the intention of flipping it be considered an “existing customer” when the watch has moved on to a new owner? If you flipped you shouldn’t have early access to new releases.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@Cleverbs…..Did you get the email announcement of the Giveaway? Says in it if you got it you are automatically entered.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> @Cleverbs…..Did you get the email announcement of the Giveaway? Says in it if you got it you are automatically entered.


Yeah I just saw that I did ... it was oddly in my spam folder, but the updated customer policy email wasn't. Weird.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Great gesture from Ming! Though I believe it may also be a marketing effort to introduce the cases (not necessarily the same type that may go on sale later on), I will have no complaints if this turns out to be true. A win-win situation for all existing customers and Ming.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> Yeah I just saw that I did ... it was oddly in my spam folder, but the updated customer policy email wasn't. Weird.


Same. 1 in spam, other isnt. 

Those cases look awesome.


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

I never got the email for the giveaway, so I guess those of us who just ordered the 37.07 aren't considered existing customers?


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## nagilluME (8 mo ago)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> I never got the email for the giveaway, so I guess those of us who just ordered the 37.07 aren't considered existing customers?


Thats bs, if half the money is transferred you are a customer. Send them an E-mail and ask why you didnt receive the confirmation.


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## ms55 (Jan 31, 2017)

christianj said:


> Love the case and I think policy changes makes logical sense. Why should someone that bought a Ming with the intention of flipping it be considered an “existing customer” when the watch has moved on to a new owner? If you flipped you shouldn’t have early access to new releases.


Totally agreed. I appreciate the process that if the new person registers the watch, the former owner is removed. If the person loved the brand enough to support it, I assume they would have kept the watch. So if the person didn't, I agree with you that the former owner shouldn't get early access to their future releases.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> I never got the email for the giveaway, so I guess those of us who just ordered the 37.07 aren't considered existing customers?


Check your spam folder. A lot of people had their’s go to spam for some reason.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> I never got the email for the giveaway, so I guess those of us who just ordered the 37.07 aren't considered existing customers?


You should be. I was able to buy the 37.05 as an existing while waiting for the 17.09 which was my first Ming.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Mine went to spam as well.


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## bearattack (Sep 26, 2021)

Didn't get a separate giveaway order either, and just recently put a deposit on the 37.07. Maybe they didn't update their email list in time for this.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

First "in the Instagram wild" spotting of the 37.05 Moonphase?


__
http://instagr.am/p/Cg2gJpkvNGS/


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> First "in the Instagram wild" spotting of the 37.05 Moonphase?
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Yes! Going to be checking my emails like a hawk now since I have one on order.


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> First "in the Instagram wild" spotting of the 37.05 Moonphase?
> 
> 
> __
> ...


That's sweet as. Cannot wait for mine to arrive.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

FYI, emails have started going out to those that ordered the 37.07 in which you can pick between the 2 straps. There is also an option to get both straps at an upcharge of $200.


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## drkurono (9 mo ago)

christianj said:


> FYI, emails have started going out to those that ordered the 37.07 in which you can pick between the 2 straps. There is also an option to get both straps at an upcharge of $200.


I have trouble choosing the strap color. Don't feel like getting both. Which one would you choose?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@drkurono I wasn’t sure which to pick either so I went with white since I’m not a burgundy fan.


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## patientzero (5 mo ago)

As a lowly amateur at playing the watch market, I’m wondering if now is a nice time to buy a Ming or if I should hold off a few months more. I see that prices are down a little, and everyone has finally received the 17.09s that they ordered which helps, but I suppose that if a nasty recession really does arrive in the next few months, surely that would push prices down further. Is that correct?

Also while I’m here: do any current 17.09 owners take a strong view on whether the burgundy or the blue is better for wearing on a daily basis? Is one colour over the other thought to be more versatile, or even just more thrilling overall?


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Price speculation is just going to be a bunch of people guessing. Only you can determine your comfort with risk.

Blue is always going to be the more versatile color of the two.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

patientzero said:


> Also while I’m here: do any current 17.09 owners take a strong view on whether the burgundy or the blue is better for wearing on a daily basis? Is one colour over the other thought to be more versatile, or even just more thrilling overall?


The blue is a lot more vibrant and it "stands" out far more than the burgundy. The burgundy is more subtle, and doesn't attract too much attention to the wrist.


----------



## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

I chose burgundy because it is low profile. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Amamam (6 mo ago)

christianj said:


> I was in the existing owner batch for the 37.05 Moon as well and I don’t remember where I think I saw the delay mentioned but if you look back at the original announcement, orders were supposed to start being delivered in a July. So far I haven’t heard or seen any news of anyone getting their 37.05 yet so July deliveries are definitely not happening which kind of indicates a delay of around a month. I hope I may have confused the delay with one of the many other watches I have on order but reality is not a single watch has surfaced anywhere on social other then Ming Theins own.
> 
> 
> 
> I would think the 900 (or 800 to 900) units is a pretty good guess based on the numbers for the FIRST window. If the second release window started in the 4900s (based on @Skitalets post) we just need to see if anyone on the tail end of the second release reports back with their order number.


I can report that I was definitely within the last 3 or 4 minutes of the second release window and my order number is 053xx.

Also to confirm another point that was mentioned, this 37.07 preorder was my first and only Ming purchase and I still did receive a dedicated giveaway email.


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

RetroEffect said:


> I bought one of the new straps a week ago - order number was 2022-040XX.





downunder888 said:


> So there should be arond 900 watches up to your order since RetroEffect ordered the straps before 1st launch. It's should be sequential, thats how we estimate it last time with the 17.09.





Amamam said:


> I can report that I was definitely within the last 3 or 4 minutes of the second release window and my order number is 053xx.


So about 1300 to 1500 there about for 37.07 release.


----------



## Friday (Sep 6, 2013)

drkurono said:


> I have trouble choosing the strap color. Don't feel like getting both. Which one would you choose?


Have the same headache now)) I would've prefer to physically feel the strap before choosing, but I guess this is not an option. Any advices?


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Ming's strap is of high quality so I suggest to go with the colour you like to start with.


Friday said:


> Have the same headache now)) I would've prefer to physically feel the strap before choosing, but I guess this is not an option. Any advices?


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Those of you who are lucky living locally


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

downunder888 said:


> Those of you who are lucky living locally


I just registered my interest since it's only a 45 minute train ride from CT.


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

christianj said:


> I just registered my interest since it's only a 45 minute train ride from CT.


Please take plenty of photo if you get confirmation for those of us sitting at home 😆😆


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I signed up as well. Hopefully I can make it!


----------



## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

I chose the white rubber for my 37.07. It's easy to get a custom leather strap made to fit later on, but getting an aftermarket curved rubber strap made for the ming cases will be nearly impossible.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I signed up as well. Hopefully I can make it!


Dude you put out so much Ming content, you have to go. It would be criminal to miss the opportunity to document it some how. You and waitlist aren’t like super close I’d say lol


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> Dude you put out so much Ming content, you have to go. It would be criminal to miss the opportunity to document it some how. You and waitlist aren’t like super close I’d say lol


Thanks! Yeah, I'd love to go. Hopefully I can get a slot in, and I'll be sure to take my camera with me if I do!


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

drkurono said:


> I have trouble choosing the strap color. Don't feel like getting both. Which one would you choose?


If you are having trouble choosing the strap color I would definitely go for the rubber strap. The MING leather straps are super versatile and functional. Most companies will only give you a leather or suede option when you buy a watch (especially on a dress watch), it's nice that you can get a good summer strap here without having to go out and buy something after the fact. 

I hope they put that white strap up for sale again I would definitely pick one up.


----------



## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

time-lord said:


> Your opinion of FB equals mine it seems. I think the watches made by Ming are great, price and quality wise. And hopefully if there were CS issues they have been resolved.


I heard that Tudor brand made a movement that had some problems too… must be another lousy micro with small budgets…


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Really odd that the 37.05 that surfaced on IG last week still is the only report I have seen of anyone getting theirs. I assume no one of the forum has been contacted yet with shipping details.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> Really odd that the 37.05 that surfaced on IG last week still is the only report I have seen of anyone getting theirs. I assume no one of the forum has been contacted yet with shipping details.


I was thinking the exact same thing too. 

Maybe they shipped out a very small batch before taking a break for their move? Ming Watch


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Given the Swiss watchmakers take all of august off I’m not expecting many deliveries until mid-end of September for much of anything. 

Which is a bummer because I’m waiting for my 20.11!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@singularityseven.....didn't know about a move so news to me which could explain. They did say end of August but I guess odd no additional ones have surfaced. We even sure the one pic that did surface on IG wasn't a photoshop job?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> @singularityseven.....didn't know about a move so news to me which could explain. They did say end of August but I guess odd no additional ones have surfaced. We even sure the one pic that did surface on IG wasn't a photoshop job?


Anything is possible on the internet 😂 

I would've assumed at least a few more photographs on social media by now if they were shipping.


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## drkurono (9 mo ago)

conrad227 said:


> If you are having trouble choosing the strap color I would definitely go for the rubber strap. The MING leather straps are super versatile and functional. Most companies will only give you a leather or suede option when you buy a watch (especially on a dress watch), it's nice that you can get a good summer strap here without having to go out and buy something after the fact.
> 
> I hope they put that white strap up for sale again I would definitely pick one up.


I had initially thought it was a white 'leather' strap since I wasn't paying attention . I have no experience with Ming's rubber strap either. Why do you highly recommend the rubber strap? I was kinda worried that it will get dirty quick because it's white. The only plus point I saw was that it matches the dial and hands perfectly.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Anyone else been surprised by how much they like the 17.09? I wasn’t expecting a whole lot after more than a year wait and the hype around Ming. But the lumed crystal and the comfy+durable strap and the overall modern look have really won me over. Hardly taken it off since I got it a few weeks back.


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## Friday (Sep 6, 2013)

I have end up going with white strap for my 37.07)) Don't have any watches with white strap yet))


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## smalleq (Jul 15, 2014)

drkurono said:


> I had initially thought it was a white 'leather' strap since I wasn't paying attention . I have no experience with Ming's rubber strap either. Why do you highly recommend the rubber strap? I was kinda worried that it will get dirty quick because it's white. The only plus point I saw was that it matches the dial and hands perfectly.


Mainly because there are tons of suitable leather strap options out there but way fewer rubber replacement options. And while people aren't quite sure the white rubber is the look they want, the burgundy leather option isn't exactly the perfect pairing in people's eyes either.


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## Psudonim (11 mo ago)

Loving the Ming diver 18.01. Was ambivalent at the beginning but the uniqueness of the design language, quality of the build and wearability have converted me.


----------



## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

Psudonim said:


> Loving the Ming diver 18.01. Was ambivalent at the beginning but the uniqueness of the design language, quality of the build and wearability have converted me.


Certainly a unique looking diver. Not one of the more common Mings to see pictures of either. Those shipped with a platinum bracelet yeah?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RaptorHF said:


> Certainly a unique looking diver. Not one of the more common Mings to see pictures of either. Those shipped with a platinum bracelet yeah?


It was a titanium/stainless steel bracelet:


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

singularityseven said:


> It was a titanium/stainless steel bracelet:
> 
> View attachment 16824549
> 
> ...


My apologies, I said Plat but meant titanium. The bracelet not that great or you just prefer the look of it on a strap?


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## Psudonim (11 mo ago)

RaptorHF said:


> My apologies, I said Plat but meant titanium. The bracelet not that great or you just prefer the look of it on a strap?


Yeah I got mine from an ebay seller with the bracelet and Jean Rousseau strap. I prefer on the strap. The one in the pic is a delugs strap.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Psudonim said:


> Yeah I got mine from an ebay seller with the bracelet and Jean Rousseau strap. I prefer on the strap. The one in the pic is a delugs strap.


Lol so now you’d prefer to keep it over insurance money huh? I’m sure they’ll come out with another diver that will improve on the design language and make us rush to our wallet, but the first production diver will always be the OG.


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## Psudonim (11 mo ago)

Kevkev1 said:


> Lol so now you’d prefer to keep it over insurance money huh? I’m sure they’ll come out with another diver that will improve on the design language and make us rush to our wallet, but the first production diver will always be the OG.


It could be Stockholm Syndrome . 
I really appreciate the uniqueness of the design. Spend a lot of time just looking at the disk 
Yeah they could improve marginally on the thickness (1 mm would do) and some way of reading minutes after the first fifteen minutes.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

Apologies if I missed it in the last few pages but haven't seen anyone mention the 20.01 Series 2 that seems to be on the Ming site when I looked today? 
















Horologer MING - MING 20.01 SERIES 2


MING 20.01 SERIES 2




www.ming.watch





Special Projects Cave run of 50, which means if you don't already know about it, you have no hope of getting one, but still nice to see. I imagine they must be going for a very large sum indeed... I'd be curious to know how much if anyone happens to know  

Personally I still dream of the original 20.01 mosaic, which was produced as a limited edition of 8, so I have less chance of being able to afford and acquire one than I do of, say, inheriting the throne of a country...


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

atvar said:


> Apologies if I missed it in the last few pages but haven't seen anyone mention the 20.01 Series 2 that seems to be on the Ming site when I looked today?
> 
> View attachment 16829488
> 
> ...


This one was announced in November last year, and was covered by the usual suspects:

Fratello: The MING 20.01 Series 2 Makes Me Question My Buying Habits

Hodinkee: Introducing: The MING 20.01 Series 2 Agengraphe Chronograph, From The 'Special Projects Cave'

And I believe it was mentioned in this post from around then.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

atvar said:


> Personally I still dream of the original 20.01 mosaic, which was produced as a limited edition of 8, so I have less chance of being able to afford and acquire one than I do of, say, inheriting the throne of a country...


I haven't seen either, but I think I prefer the s2 to the Mosaic and the s1. 

I prefer what they've done with the minute / seconds track over the dots from the previous versions:




























That said, I would love to own any one of these!


----------



## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

atvar said:


> Apologies if I missed it in the last few pages but haven't seen anyone mention the 20.01 Series 2 that seems to be on the Ming site when I looked today?
> 
> View attachment 16829488
> 
> ...


The thing with that specific model is that whilst the mosaic part of the dial is actually really captivating, the rest really doesn't do it for me. The strap really doesn't do it any favours either in my opinion.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Do these hands look familiar to anyone else, or have I been sniffing to many MING fumes?









Riviera 10701 Watch for men | Check Prices on Baume & Mercier


Discover the Riviera 10701 Blue dial & Rubber watch for men with Automatic, self-winding movement, designed by Baume et Mercier, Manufacturer of Swiss Watches




www.baume-et-mercier.com


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

It's a good looking watch, if a bit overpriced and unfortunately only available on rubber.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> This one was announced in November last year, and was covered by the usual suspects:
> 
> Fratello: The MING 20.01 Series 2 Makes Me Question My Buying Habits
> 
> ...


I must have been asleep that week


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

drkurono said:


> I had initially thought it was a white 'leather' strap since I wasn't paying attention . I have no experience with Ming's rubber strap either. Why do you highly recommend the rubber strap? I was kinda worried that it will get dirty quick because it's white. The only plus point I saw was that it matches the dial and hands perfectly.


Hello,

I like that the rubber straps have an appearance of a leather strap (rather than being tropic-style) so the watch still looks formal even though it's a much more weather-resistant material. It also works just fine on a nice sports watch, too. Where I live the weather is just not good for wearing leather straps for at least five months a year. 

Actually, I have a few of these straps, and I just noticed that at least one of them (the black one) has a suede backing while another one (the orange one) is all-rubber. I have a couple more so I will have to see what construction those other ones use. But I definitely prefer the all-rubber ones (for the weather resistance feature that I previously mentioned). Judging from the caseback photo of the 37.07 on the website, it appears the white one is the single rubber construction. 

Maybe I'll try to post some photos of the strap in action when I get home.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

17.09 has been getting a ton of wrist time as I wait for an email on my 37.05 so this was bound to happen. First scratch always hurts the most! 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> 17.09 has been getting a ton of wrist time as I wait for an email on my 37.05 so this was bound to happen. First scratch always hurts the most!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's ruined, throw it in the trash then tell me which trash... for confirmation purposes only, of course.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

Some very nice looking watches here folks!!!!


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## TecTonic (May 16, 2018)

I just received an email from MING revealing their 37.04 Monopusher. It looks amazing!


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

TecTonic said:


> I just received an email from MING revealing their 37.04 Monopusher. It looks amazing!


Beyond my budget haha. But only 100 pieces on an allocation basis. Even if I have the money I doubt I will be able to snag one. Hope whoever around here desires one will be able to get it!


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

TecTonic said:


> I just received an email from MING revealing their 37.04 Monopusher. It looks amazing!


Agree but for those that haven’t clicked the link and get all excited……it’s CHF 29;500!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Wow, this is incredible - MING 37.04 - Ming Watch


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

Yeah this one's out of my price range unfortunately.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I have no idea how they found 100 of these movements, but this movement is quite legendary in the Cartier collector circles. It was designed by Denis Flageollet (De Bethune), FP Journe and Vianney Halter. I believe De Bethune used it in their DB8 as well.









Revisiting: The Cartier Monopoussoir CPCP With Denis Flageollet


Made more than twenty years ago by two future stars of the independent watchmaking scene, the Cartier Monopoussoir CPCP has become a symbol of the great collaborative spirit of the late 90s. Denis Flageollet revisits the now iconic timepiece, and share memories of working with Francois-Paul...




www.phillips.com


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

singularityseven said:


> I have no idea how they found 100 of these movements, but this movement is quite legendary in the Cartier collector circles. It was designed by Denis Flageollet (De Bethune), FP Journe and Vianney Halter. I believe De Bethune used it in their DB8 as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Presumably it'd be a good amount more than 100 since they'd need to keep spare parts etc. for them also.


----------



## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I have no idea how they found 100 of these movements, but this movement is quite legendary in the Cartier collector circles. It was designed by Denis Flageollet (De Bethune), FP Journe and Vianney Halter. I believe De Bethune used it in their DB8 as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting background - thanks!


----------



## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I have no idea how they found 100 of these movements, but this movement is quite legendary in the Cartier collector circles. It was designed by Denis Flageollet (De Bethune), FP Journe and Vianney Halter. I believe De Bethune used it in their DB8 as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This firmly removes the brand from any conversation as a “micro brand” and somewhere in the ranks of an independent brand. This type of movement goes toe to toe with a lot of independents. While it maybe isn’t the core offering, it does signal their growing cache .


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Ming is killing it with the 37 series.


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Watch is gorgeous, WAY beyond what I'm comfortable spending. Glad to see their special projects are becoming more widely available, even if none of them will ever be in the range of what I'd be willing to spend.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

downunder888 said:


> Ming is killing it with the 37 series.


Definitely killing it with the 37 series announcements and intros but now let’s get some of those 37.05 watches out.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I have no idea how they found 100 of these movements, but this movement is quite legendary in the Cartier collector circles. It was designed by Denis Flageollet (De Bethune), FP Journe and Vianney Halter. I believe De Bethune used it in their DB8 as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I knew I recognized the layout from somewhere, delugs used to post the Tortue CPCP quite often a few months back.

This Ming is indeed exceptional with a exceptionally high price tag to match. Wonder how long it will take to sell all 100.


----------



## Watchowski (Jun 10, 2012)

Really love the Monopusher! If I didn't have the 20.01 coming in, I would have sprung for this one. I do prefer the original Cartiers though, with the running seconds. Still, the range of Ming watches from the 17 series to the SPC ones is just really amazing! Can't wait for what comes next.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I've been playing "spot the differences" all morning. Lovely caliber, and great designs on both.


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

I solved it! One doesn't have Cartier written on the one part. What do I win?


----------



## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

It's a beautiful watch, I'm not personally a fan of the double scales, , pulsometer and tachymeter, but it's not out of place on the design. 
Hope all of those with 30k CHF to spare and a desire to buy this one get one of the 100 available!


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## DimiTiomkin (Aug 13, 2016)

christianj said:


> My 37.07 order number is in the 43xx range….more specific between 4335-4355….. and bought last night and completed in first 2-3 minutes or so.


Just some belated date points for those who keep track of these things:

I called a Major Bank about two of my cards--one Visa, one Mastercard--and let them know of a pending purchase for the 37.07. They were informed about the currency and location. They said, "Cool!" Customer Service Reps were very friendly. "Hmm," I thought. "They like me!" Both cards were rejected nonetheless. "Please contact your bank, blah, blah, blah." One of these cards has been used rigorously (in spurts) internationally over the years. Scrambling, I pulled out a credit card that I've used maybe 3 times ever. It worked. 
3 cards later, I received confirmation for the 37.07 exactly five minutes after the first window opened. My order number was 2022-047xx-V.
Being a kinda-sort numbers guy, can someone redirect me to the thread/messages where Ming's model number system is discussed? I studied the Ming website, and it didn't make sense to me. Better still, I just need a one sentence Big Bird explanation.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@DimiTiomkin...being US based I have never had any issues with cards issued by Chase and Amex for Ming and Kurono Tokyo purchases. There have been several reports of people with Citibank cards having issues as well as other issuers. As for the "model number system," I assume you mean which model number Ming assigns to their releases....I don't remember that ever being discussed in a thread/message but I might be mistaken. One would assume the model number depends on what they feel like assigning to it other than the first two numbers being a reference to the case.


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

christianj said:


> @DimiTiomkin...being US based I have never had any issues with cards issued by Chase and Amex for Ming and Kurono Tokyo purchases. There have been several reports of people with Citibank cards having issues as well as other issuers. As for the "model number system," I assume you mean which model number Ming assigns to their releases....I don't remember that ever being discussed in a thread/message but I might be mistaken. One would assume the model number depends on what they fell like assigning to it.


I'm Australian but my CC is issued through Citibank and had no issues personally for whatever that is worth.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> @DimiTiomkin...being US based I have never had any issues with cards issued by Chase and Amex for Ming and Kurono Tokyo purchases. There have been several reports of people with Citibank cards having issues as well as other issuers. As for the "model number system," I assume you mean which model number Ming assigns to their releases....I don't remember that ever being discussed in a thread/message but I might be mistaken. One would assume the model number depends on what they fell like assigning to it other than the first two numbers being a reference to the case.


Echoing this - my chase visa has had zero issues with Ming orders.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Chase seems to be the way to go. My Bank of America card no longer works (it did on their old system).


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> My Bank of America card no longer works (it did on their old system).


Odd as I would have thought if you had previous transactions with the issuer for Ming that it should go through without any issues. I just recently got a Capital One card (that gets more points for regular non-bonus charges) and I was going to use it the first time for my 2nd payment on the 37.05 and to hopefully prep the card for later uses on transactions like that.


----------



## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

DimiTiomkin said:


> Being a kinda-sort numbers guy, can someone redirect me to the thread/messages where Ming's model number system is discussed? I studied the Ming website, and it didn't make sense to me. Better still, I just need a one sentence Big Bird explanation.


From MT himself, they design a common case (eg 37) - the first digit is the generation, second digit is the model/case design (eg 27 was 2nd generation, case 7), and then the following number is the order in which the watches are conceived (eg, the 37.04 was third generation 7 case and was the 4th watch designed in the 37 case). Note that the majority of designs never see the light of day (hence why there’s a 37.04, 37.05, and 37.07 but no 1-3).


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> Odd as I would have thought if you had previous transactions with the issuer for Ming that it should go through without any issues. I just recently got a Capital One card (that gets more points for regular non-bonus charges) and I was going to use it the first time for my 2nd payment on the 37.05 and to hopefully prep the card for later uses on transactions like that.


I looked into this at the time, and I remember MING's payment gateway upgraded to using 3D Secure, whereas my BoA cards aren't 3D Secure. The Chase ones are, I believe.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

DimiTiomkin said:


> Being a kinda-sort numbers guy, can someone redirect me to the thread/messages where Ming's model number system is discussed? I studied the Ming website, and it didn't make sense to me. Better still, I just need a one sentence Big Bird explanation.


From this journal post - Ming Watch



> The first two digits of the model denote the family, and the second two the individual variant. Initially, we planned to have one new family introduced per year, with the first two digits denoting the year of introduction - but reshuffled that strategy a little due to market conditions and R&D time required. However, naming had to be kept constant to avoid confusing partners and suppliers - hence the out of sequence naming. And yes, there will be an 18- series between 17- and 19-.


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## Pieterwatch (9 mo ago)

I didnt see any "live" Mosaic pics so here you go. I love this watch so much im not wearing my 19.07 anymore.


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## DimiTiomkin (Aug 13, 2016)

christianj said:


> @DimiTiomkinThere have been several reports of people with Citibank cards having issues as well as other issuers.


For what it's worth, both of my denied cards--Visa and Mastercard--were issued by Citibank. When I spoke to the representatives beforehand they had no idea what 3D Secure was. And thanks, all, for explaining Ming's Model system. Their journal explanation confused me.


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## ms55 (Jan 31, 2017)

Pieterwatch said:


> View attachment 16840545
> 
> View attachment 16840542
> 
> ...


That is incredible. Enjoy and thanks for posting


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## Pieterwatch (9 mo ago)

ms55 said:


> That is incredible. Enjoy and thanks for posting


I doubted for a while wether i should get it because 15k is a lot for me and Micro brands are not super stable value retention wise. But the mosaic dial is what got me into Ming and you cant find anything like it anywhere so I placed my order.

I was really surprised when Ming got so much backlash for this watch online concerning the price. Yes, It didnt have the Agenhore movement but its still a Schwarz-Etienne movement( I think many thought and think it was still the movement adaptation like with other models) and if you look at some Schwarz Etienne pieces theyre as or even more expensive than the 20.11.

Looking back now, I looked almost every day or week at the 20.11 pictures on the Ming site. And now receiving it is like a dream come true but also a bit of a painful moment. The good part is that the watch is incredibly beautiful and the movement is mesmerising plus the lume is 20* as good as on the 19.07. 
The downside is that theres not much that can beat this watch in my opinion and I havent been able to find any other watch that captures my attention since the 20.11 release . Im afraid that Ming wont ever do a this kind of "large scale Mosaic" again since the production process was so difficult and expensive. I think theyll still do the new mosaic like in the anniversary piece and have some smaller use cases like in the Tourbillion but thats probably it.

If you ever find one and are able to afford one, get it. You wont be dissapointed I can assure you. Plus finding out its also GPHG nominated was so deserving in my opinion, sad they didnt make it to the finals but the mens category is quite competitive.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Pieterwatch said:


> I doubted for a while wether i should get it because 15k is a lot for me and Micro brands are not super stable value retention wise. But the mosaic dial is what got me into Ming and you cant find anything like it anywhere so I placed my order.
> 
> I was really surprised when Ming got so much backlash for this watch online concerning the price. Yes, It didnt have the Agenhore movement but its still a Schwarz-Etienne movement( I think many thought and think it was still the movement adaptation like with other models) and if you look at some Schwarz Etienne pieces theyre as or even more expensive than the 20.11.
> 
> ...


I can totally relate to "how do I find something else interesting now"... I don't have a mosaic, but with a 22.01 on order and an OP36 (silver dial/gold accents) on my wrist filling the basic sports watch need, I've struggled with finding where to go next. Then again, maybe that's a good thing, since it keeps preventing me from buying more watches!


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## Pieterwatch (9 mo ago)

Cleverbs said:


> I can totally relate to "how do I find something else interesting now"... I don't have a mosaic, but with a 22.01 on order and an OP36 (silver dial/gold accents) on my wrist filling the basic sports watch need, I've struggled with finding where to go next. Then again, maybe that's a good thing, since it keeps preventing me from buying more watches!


It is a good thing for the wallet for sure. The only watch im still interested in is the green Moser streamliner but not at the grey market price.


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## ajg1960 (Jan 5, 2015)

I'm so excited -- I purchased a 17.09 blue dial from a very reputable seller on this forum- evanisrushin-- he sent me a tracking number like 5 minutes after I paid-- scheduled to arrive on Friday !!!! I have quite a few watches-- no Ming-- I dont think I've been this excited for any one of them!


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

is anyone going to the Ming meet & greet in New York? Itd be great to hear how it goes for us on the west coast


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

I applied for the meet & greet but did not get a confirmation so I assume others got the spots. 

On a different note, did get my "Your watch is ready to ship" email for my 37.05 ! Now the shipping wait begins.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> I applied for the meet & greet but did not get a confirmation so I assume others got the spots.
> 
> On a different note, did get my "Your watch is ready to ship" email for my 37.05 ! Now the shipping wait begins.


A shame you didn't get the invite. I'm sure NYC has a lot of the high rollers that buy the special project stuff, so they probably won out over us plebs. 

At least your watch is coming! I can't wait for my notification... in 5-6 months.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> I applied for the meet & greet but did not get a confirmation so I assume others got the spots.
> 
> On a different note, did get my "Your watch is ready to ship" email for my 37.05 ! Now the shipping wait begins.


Awesome, I can't wait to see some real life pics of the 37.05!


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## ajg1960 (Jan 5, 2015)

Look what arrived today! Holy Shnikes this thing is awesome.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

ajg1960 said:


> Look what arrived today! Holy Shnikes this thing is awesome.
> View attachment 16856424


Better than you thought? What we’re your initial impressions?


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## ajg1960 (Jan 5, 2015)

Kevkev1 said:


> Better than you thought? What we’re your initial impressions?


I guess not necessarily better than I thought, but I was a little worried that I would be disappointed. I spent a lot of time reading reviews and watching videos, and I really was excited, but then— what if the dial really looks good on the IPad but not so great in person? What if it looks cheap or something? So when I received that package and started to open it, well, the box was classy, then comes the canvas pouch, awesome, now here’s the leather case, wow, beautiful, now there’s the watch— it looks great—relief, but it still in a plastic bag so can’t be sure, slide it out of the bag, wow. Wow. It doesn’t look cheap, it looks gorgeous. It feels sturdy and just the right weight. The strap is perfect for it. Put it on, it wears really well and feels very comfortable. Take it outside in the sun, wow. Wow. Such a beautiful dial. Run back in and go into the walk in closet. That lume is amazing and so different. I’m so happy it’s as good as I thought it would be.


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

You have got to take a photo when it arrives mate. I am gonna be going away for a few weeks so probably am gonna have to ask them to delay shipping when I get my email. Was hoping to get it before I leave.


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## JRat (Jul 18, 2021)

ajg1960 said:


> Look what arrived today! Holy Shnikes this thing is awesome.
> View attachment 16856424


Very nice, here's mine with similar lighting


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I got to meet @waitlisted before the MING meet & greet yesterday, and got my paws on his amazing 20.09 Tourbillon. Sadly I was too distracted by this beauty to take photographs of the case back.









James (@waitlisted) (@waitlisted) • Instagram photos and videos


30K Followers, 1,808 Following, 1,175 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from James (@waitlisted) (@waitlisted)




www.instagram.com


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I got to meet @waitlisted before the MING meet & greet yesterday, and got my paws on his amazing 20.09 Tourbillon. Sadly I was too distracted by this beauty to take photographs of the case back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which was more impressive? The watch or James? He had an amazing article about the brand published on hodinkee. And did you ask when their next gen mosaic diver is coming???


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> Which was more impressive? The watch or James? He had an amazing article about the brand published on hodinkee. And did you ask when their next gen mosaic diver is coming???


James is certainly more impressive, but the watch had better lume 😂 

I did get a chance to ask Ming Thein about a future diver - and he said that there are diver projects in the works, with a potential release date for next year. I'm not sure if it'll be a mosaic one though.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> James is certainly more impressive, but the watch had better lume 😂
> 
> I did get a chance to ask Ming Thein about a future diver - and he said that there are diver projects in the works, with a potential release date for next year. I'm not sure if it'll be a mosaic one though.


Did you also ask him if he could include you in his list of people worthy of SPC models? Because you're the kind of guy who should be there.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> Did you also ask him if he could include you in his list of people worthy of SPC models? Because you're the kind of guy who should be there.


Haha, I think the Secret Project Cave stuff is less of a Secret these days, and I did sign up for the SPC list a while ago. The only problem now is finding the money to pay for one. The 37.04 Monopusher was incredible in person and the work they've done on that movement is exquisite.

My photographs from the actual meet and greet are quite terrible - I was sitting in front of a window so there's more NY sky than MING in each photograph. My iPhone shots don't do justice to any of these watches unfortunately.

But here are some shots of the MING 37.04 Monopusher:


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

I'm surprised there were no 22.01s there for pictures. Maybe they're not expensive enough to be photographed with the others.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> I'm surprised there were no 22.01s there for pictures. Maybe they're not expensive enough to be photographed with the others.


I asked Ming Thein, and he said the 22.01 prototypes were back at the manufacturer getting updated parts (I think production version dials).


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> I asked Ming Thein, and he said the 22.01 prototypes were back at the manufacturer getting updated parts (I think production version dials).


A likely excuse. WHAT IS HE HIDING!?! 

Hopefully it looks as good in reality as all of the watches he did bring.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Haha, I think the Secret Project Cave stuff is less of a Secret these days, and I did sign up for the SPC list a while ago. The only problem now is finding the money to pay for one. The 37.04 Monopusher was incredible in person and the work they've done on that movement is exquisite.
> 
> My photographs from the actual meet and greet are quite terrible - I was sitting in front of a window so there's more NY sky than MING in each photograph. My iPhone shots don't do justice to any of these watches unfortunately.
> 
> ...


That monopusher is nuts, soooo cool. Crazy how much bigger the agengraphe is though, the case back of the 20.01 looks considerably better with that properly sized movement.

The 2nd to last photo is the last proof I needed to convince myself I did well not going for the 37.07. As cool as it is, it also looks like a poor people's 20.11, specially the dial side. The mosaic is a whole other level. I also prefer the sticks at the hours, much more legible.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> That monopusher is nuts, soooo cool. Crazy how much bigger the agengraphe is though, the case back of the 20.01 looks considerably better with that properly sized movement.
> 
> The 2nd to last photo is the last proof I needed to convince myself I did well not going for the 37.07. As cool as it is, it also looks like a poor people's 20.11, specially the dial side. The mosaic is a whole other level. I also prefer the sticks at the hours, much more legible.


I had somewhat of the opposite reaction to the 37.07 - I've loved the 20.11 since it was announced, but the 37.07 is very impressive in person. I don't think photographs did that one justice (mine, and those on the website). The mosaic pattern on that one is intense and the lume was pretty incredible. I'm partial to the 20.11 because of the dial making process, but whoever ordered a 37.07 is going to be very happy with what they're getting. 

I didn't take too many photographs of the 37.07 Mosaic because I only had 30 minutes and I was too busy drooling over everything, but here are some more:




























I'll gather the rest of my shots and upload them here today.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I had somewhat of the opposite reaction to the 37.07 - I've loved the 20.11 since it was announced, but the 37.07 is very impressive in person. I don't think photographs did that one justice (mine, and those on the website). The mosaic pattern on that one is intense and the lume was pretty incredible. I'm partial to the 20.11 because of the dial making process, but whoever ordered a 37.07 is going to be very happy with what they're getting.
> 
> I didn't take too many photographs of the 37.07 Mosaic because I only had 30 minutes and I was too busy drooling over everything, but here are some more:
> 
> ...


I think my main complaint with the 37 is that the pattern doesn't go all the way to the edge of the dial. Really like that look on the mosaic, and conversely the plain grey circle of the 37 is kinda boring. I knew it is finished with concentric circles but it's not the same thing...

Also, the mosaic almost feels organic, just squares placed at random both in depth and layout within each layer. With the 37 I see too many circles made of triangles, and predetermined patterns. Specially the black ones.

Did you manage to get some more lume shots?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> I think my main complaint with the 37 is that the pattern doesn't go all the way to the edge of the dial. Really like that look on the mosaic, and conversely the plain grey circle of the 37 is kinda boring. I knew it is finished with concentric circles but it's not the same thing...


That's my only criticism of the watch too. I think if the black color went all the way to the edge of the dial, the beautiful fade of the mosaic to black could be a lot better appreciated. Because the way the mosaic sphere fades to black looks pretty incredible in person, and then it is somewhat abruptly stopped by the concentric circle ring.



jmariorebelo said:


> Did you manage to get some more lume shots?


None that are any good, just these:


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

jmariorebelo said:


> I think my main complaint with the 37 is that the pattern doesn't go all the way to the edge of the dial. Really like that look on the mosaic, and conversely the plain grey circle of the 37 is kinda boring. I knew it is finished with concentric circles but it's not the same thing...
> 
> Also, the mosaic almost feels organic, just squares placed at random both in depth and layout within each layer. With the 37 I see too many circles made of triangles, and predetermined patterns. Specially the black ones.
> 
> Did you manage to get some more lume shots?


I agree, however considering one cost over $10k more than the other, it's understandable for the more expensive one to look better overall.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

No one has mentioned the 37.05...what did you guys think of it? I paid my 2nd installment on mine on Friday but they haven't gotten it out yet so impatiently waiting.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> No one has mentioned the 37.05...what did you guys think of it? I paid my 2nd installment on mine on Friday but they haven't gotten it out yet so impatiently waiting.


It's understated compared to some others (especially the expensive ones in the pic). I'm a big no-date-window guy, but the watch was designed around it so it works. It's definitely a stand out watch compared to watches from any other brand.

I do really like that it's a few cool complications with a new dial design; it looks (and should feel) way more premium than the 17.XX series.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cleverbs said:


> It's understated compared to some others (especially the expensive ones in the pic).


That's what I thought as well....the others were simply more in focus since they were such "wow" pieces.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> No one has mentioned the 37.05...what did you guys think of it? I paid my 2nd installment on mine on Friday but they haven't gotten it out yet so impatiently waiting.


I have a 37.05 on order so I ended up spending most of the time handling the 37.05 and 20.11, apart from the two chronographs of course.

The 37.05 looks a lot nicer in person than it does in photographs, and I am eager to get mine now. The case feels a bit different on wrist compared to the 17 series family - a bit flatter and more 27-like. It comes across as being sleeker overall, and the lack of a distinct bezel is a big win for me, since the scratch-magnet convex bezels on the 17 series are bad for my OCD.

MING claimed this watch wears bigger than dimensions might suggest, and I initially chalked that up to a sales pitch, but it seems to be true. It feels larger than a 17 series for sure, and that might have to do with the lack of a bezel and a more "open" dial.

Here is the 38mm MING 37.05 and the 42mm MING 20.11:









And some more shots of it:


















A wrist shot:









The rear end of the 37.05 Moonphase is indistinguishable from the 37.07 Mosaic, since they're both based on the same architecture. 

MING 37.05 Moonphase:









MING 37.07 Mosaic:


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Also a side note - if you're an anti-date window guy like myself, and have a Moonphase on order, you'll be happy to note that the sapphire layer over the date window means that you don't end up seeing an ugly rectangular cutout on the dial, and when the dial "inverts", the date window disappears completely. I thought this was a very nice touch, and is perhaps the best execution of a sapphire date window I've seen.









^ Photograph from the MING website.

Brands like Christopher Ward, Dietrich and others tend to cut their date windows through the sapphire and none of them end up polishing the sapphire edges so they end up deeper than you want them to be because of the added sapphire layer and also look quite shabby up close. I couldn't capture this on my phone camera, but I'll try to do a better job once my 37.05 arrives.


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## Murray4310 (5 mo ago)

The 17.09 is underestimated as one of the most fun watches Ming makes.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> Also a side note - if you're an anti-date window guy like myself, and have a Moonphase on order, you'll be happy to note that the sapphire layer over the date window means that you don't end up seeing an ugly rectangular cutout on the dial, and when the dial "inverts", the date window disappears completely. I thought this was a very nice touch, and is perhaps the best execution of a sapphire date window I've seen.
> 
> View attachment 16863706
> 
> ...


Awesome write up, pics, and details. I love how Ming cares about the details - as you noted cheaper brands (and even more expensive ones like omega!) have ****ty looking date windows that cheapen the overall watch. 

The date window on the Ming is as good as it gets - minimal gap, blending of the dial edges, color matching... All the best stuff. If I had to get a date window on a watch, this is the stuff I'd want. (I don't have one of these on order, just the 22.01)


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> I have a 37.05 on order so I ended up spending most of the time handling the 37.05 and 20.11, apart from the two chronographs of course.
> 
> The 37.05 looks a lot nicer in person than it does in photographs, and I am eager to get mine now. The case feels a bit different on wrist compared to the 17 series family - a bit flatter and more 27-like. It comes across as being sleeker overall, and the lack of a distinct bezel is a big win for me, since the scratch-magnet convex bezels on the 17 series are bad for my OCD.


Thanks so much for the further pics and details and you touched on a couple of things (like the bezel compared to the 17 series being less of a scratch-magnet and the date window) which make me even more excited to get mine. One thing that still baffles me is how the moonphase is set since I see no buttons anywhere on the sides of the case. Any idea? Just another position of the crown?

My 37.05 has now officially shipped with DHL but the arrival date is after I leave for a business trip so my SO will get to be the safe keeper of the box while I am away. I hate when this happens....wait 9 months and then they send it so it's supposed to arrive 2 days after I leave for 2 weeks. Still keeping out some hope that the date in the DHL site will be improved on. 🤞


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> One thing that still baffles me is how the moonphase is set since I see no buttons anywhere on the sides of the case. Any idea? Just another position of the crown?


Yep, everything is set using the crown, and according to these tech docs (https://www.sellita.ch/scripts/calibres/images/Brochure_technique-SW288-1_1.pdf), position 2 of the crown should help you set the moon phase!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I got around to doing a full photo dump of the watches here, with my unsolicited opinions of course - MING x NYC 2022 – Beans & Bezels


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## Gavstar (May 28, 2021)

I’ve just received an email from Ming offering me the 37.04. I was rather surprised but I guess the price point is high. Has anyone else here got an allocation?


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

Whilst I wait for the 37.07 production, has anybody got a strap suggestion (be it one from the Ming strap store, delugs etc.)? I'm not huge on either the white band nor the oxblood barenia and was hoping for something a bit more subtle in colour whilst still complementing the watch. I couldn't find any other reputable custom strap makers that aren't ludicrously priced outside of delugs that will also do curved straps.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@RaptorHF I think we still have some time till the watches ship so maybe Ming or Delugs has something by then that will work on it. The strap on the watch from the NYC event is a good match in my opinion. It looks gray but I did read somewhere on IG that someone said it was an olive....which I am not seeing but pictures can be deceiving. IMHO gray would be the perfect color for it.


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

christianj said:


> @RaptorHF I think we still have some time till the watches ship so maybe Ming or Delugs has something by then that will work on it. The strap on the watch from the NYC event is a good match in my opinion. It looks gray but I did read somewhere on IG that someone said it was an olive....which I am not seeing but pictures can be deceiving. IMHO gray would be the perfect color for it.


Maybe I'm just boring but I quite like the look of the black rubber they have with white stitching on the Ming strap store at the moment, however it's in a 22mm size rather than the 20mm. Either way, we definitely have plenty of time to figure something out. What material was the strap you're referring to made out of?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

RaptorHF said:


> What material was the strap you're referring to made out of?


No clue what it is made out of. Look at the last two pics in post #2362 in this thread by singularityseven.


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## unofficial (Jul 24, 2021)

I was also curious what was that strap at the NYC reveal. Looks like the olive alcantara strap they currently have on the website.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RaptorHF said:


> Maybe I'm just boring but I quite like the look of the black rubber they have with white stitching on the Ming strap store at the moment, however it's in a 22mm size rather than the 20mm. Either way, we definitely have plenty of time to figure something out. What material was the strap you're referring to made out of?


The strap on the 37.07 looked grey to my eyes (and my photographs)  

It looks grey in these shots too:

__
http://instagr.am/p/ChxGiK9MiFG/


__
http://instagr.am/p/ChxkbHupBAN/


__
http://instagr.am/p/ChxluisJBDl/

But yeah I can't find a similar strap on their website currently.

Also, they will have a 20mm black rubber strap back in stock at some point between now and when you take delivery of the 37.07. I picked one up recently for my 37.05 Moonphase. They just tend to sell out quickly.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

@singularityseven Thanks for the pics. Which was your favorite of the lot, price no object?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

zztopops said:


> @singularityseven Thanks for the pics. Which was your favorite of the lot, price no object?


I would have to go with the 20.01 s2 Chronograph - big, busy and a beast of a movement. A watch very unlike MING (since it feels like every knob was cranked to 11 on this) but also very much MING at the same time, with all the little design motifs.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

That's my favorite release so far too. Hope I get to see it in person some day.


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## Murray4310 (5 mo ago)

singularityseven said:


> I got around to doing a full photo dump of the watches here, with my unsolicited opinions of course - MING x NYC 2022 – Beans & Bezels


Awesome photos! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edotkim (Jan 1, 2017)

Speaking of straps for the 37.07, I'm very tempted to go for the Khaki Alcantara strap that's on Ming's site right now. As I understand it, alcantara is a synthetic material, so I'm not worried about water damage as I would be with a natural suede strap. But, for anyone who's had experience with an alcantara strap, can they be cleaned? Ming's khaki alcantara is pretty light in hue, and I'd hate for it to get shabby looking really quickly.

Any insight anyone can share would be greatly appreciated!



singularityseven said:


> The strap on the 37.07 looked grey to my eyes (and my photographs)
> 
> It looks grey in these shots too:
> 
> ...


----------



## pekopeter (4 mo ago)

Gavstar said:


> I’ve just received an email from Ming offering me the 37.04. I was rather surprised but I guess the price point is high. Has anyone else here got an allocation?





Gavstar said:


> I’ve just received an email from Ming offering me the 37.04. I was rather surprised but I guess the price point is high. Has anyone else here got an allocation?


I registered my interest and one allocated  If you haven't registered interest, I guess that they didn't find 100 who are willing to buy


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

pekopeter said:


> I registered my interest and one allocated  If you haven't registered interest, I guess that they didn't find 100 who are willing to buy


At $30k a piece, I'm not surprised they didn't sell out immediately. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's by far their most expensive watch available that isn't a special projects watch.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> At $30k a piece, I'm not surprised they didn't sell out immediately. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's by far their most expensive watch available that isn't a special projects watch.


The 37.04 is a special projects watch I believe: Horologer MING - MING 37.04 MONOPUSHER

The most expensive "not-special-project" watch is the 20.11 Mosaic: Horologer MING - MING 20.11 MOSAIC


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

edotkim said:


> But, for anyone who's had experience with an alcantara strap, can they be cleaned? Ming's khaki alcantara is pretty light in hue, and I'd hate for it to get shabby looking really quickly.


I have washed my Alcantara strap once, and it seems fine. According to the internet, it's ok to wash Alcantara fabric: How to wash Alcantara - Machine Washing Guide - Alcantara


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

what was price of the burgundy dial when they were made available to purchase? 

there's a bevy of them for sale on the secondary market


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> The 37.04 is a special projects watch I believe: Horologer MING - MING 37.04 MONOPUSHER


It is, it's written on that page. 

I'd expect the fact Ming wants people to give them 15k (!!!) right now in hopes a watch turns up in 7 months time, if not later, also detracted from the number of prospective buyers. 

Wonder how long they can keep this kickstarter modus operandi going.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> It is, it's written on that page.
> 
> I'd expect the fact Ming wants people to give them 15k (!!!) right now in hopes a watch turns up in 7 months time, if not later, also detracted from the number of prospective buyers.
> 
> Wonder how long they can keep this kickstarter modus operandi going.


This has been discussed at length in this thread already. Like it or hate it, the waiting game is part of the independent watch scene at the moment. I think they could lose some market share in the lower price segments with the slightly more casual collectors, but folks buying $30k watches and specially those buying it for the "right" reasons will be unfazed by the wait, imo. Kikuchi Nakagawa now has a wait time of upto 120 months (10 years!!) for one of their pieces. Gronefeld is heavily backlogged, but continue to release more watches with wait times of about 2-3 years I think. Lange (not an indie) is the same, with estimated wait times of 2 years for stuff like the 1815 Chronograph. And these are all with *significant* down-payments. Sartory Billard takes about 8 months I think? And anordain takes a fair bit of time I'm told, but you probably have a better idea there.

It is what it is, but I think they're going to be fine. According to this NYT article, and if you believe MT, there were 400 people on the wait-list for their 20.01 s2 Chronograph which was about $35k with a minimum 8-9 month wait and a $17.5k deposit. If that is true, there seems to be enough of a market of folks with patience and money.


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## pekopeter (4 mo ago)

singularityseven said:


> This has been discussed at length in this thread already. Like it or hate it, the waiting game is part of the independent watch scene at the moment. I think they could lose some market share in the lower price segments with the slightly more casual collectors, but folks buying $30k watches and specially those buying it for the "right" reasons will be unfazed by the wait,
> 
> It is what it is, but I think they're going to be fine.


I couldn't agree more. I am excited that i can get my hands on a 37.04 and make it part of my collection  I have also ordered a 37.07.
The 37.04 is limited SPC, I doubt that I will lose any money, if I would ever decide to sell or uptrade it in a few years.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> This has been discussed at length in this thread already. Like it or hate it, the waiting game is part of the independent watch scene at the moment. I think they could lose some market share in the lower price segments with the slightly more casual collectors, but folks buying $30k watches and specially those buying it for the "right" reasons will be unfazed by the wait, imo. Kikuchi Nakagawa now has a wait time of upto 120 months (10 years!!) for one of their pieces. Gronefeld is heavily backlogged, but continue to release more watches with wait times of about 2-3 years I think. Lange (not an indie) is the same, with estimated wait times of 2 years for stuff like the 1815 Chronograph. And these are all with *significant* down-payments. Sartory Billard takes about 8 months I think? And anordain takes a fair bit of time I'm told, but you probably have a better idea there.
> 
> It is what it is, but I think they're going to be fine. According to this NYT article, and if you believe MT, there were 400 people on the wait-list for their 20.01 s2 Chronograph which was about $35k with a minimum 8-9 month wait and a $17.5k deposit. If that is true, there seems to be enough of a market of folks with patience and money.


True, you do have a point. No idea kikuchi was that bad, that's insane... 

Out of all those Sartory Billard ends up being the most surprising, even more when he makes the dials himself (although people buying the S5 seem to pick a lot more guilloche, which means Comblemine, so it also takes some work off his hands).


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> No idea kikuchi was that bad, that's insane...


Yeah, I think that recent Hodinkee interview with Ed Sheeran didn't do that wait time any favors either 😂


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

pIonEerOFtHeNiLe said:


> what was price of the burgundy dial when they were made available to purchase?
> 
> there's a bevy of them for sale on the secondary market


Are you asking about the 17.09 burgundy which was a timed release or the 17.03? 17.09 was CHF 1950 and no one really knows how large the release was since it was time based. Guesses we’re in the 2000-2500 unit range for the total release of blue and burgundy versions.


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## ajg1960 (Jan 5, 2015)

singularityseven said:


> That's my only criticism of the watch too. I think if the black color went all the way to the edge of the dial, the beautiful fade of the mosaic to black could be a lot better appreciated. Because the way the mosaic sphere fades to black looks pretty incredible in person, and then it is somewhat abruptly stopped by the concentric circle ring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your pics are not nearly as bad as you’re making them out— really helpful, thanks. Wish I had more $$. I have a 17.09 and absolutely love it.


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

singularityseven said:


> The strap on the 37.07 looked grey to my eyes (and my photographs)
> 
> It looks grey in these shots too:
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure that strap in those shots aren't the ones it ships with.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

RaptorHF said:


> I'm pretty sure that strap in those shots aren't the ones it ships with.


I don’t think anyone was thinking the 37.07 ships on that strap. Options were white rubber and burgundy leather. Discussion have centered around what strap that is (in the pictures) and why they wouldn’t have used that instead of the white and burgundy they chose.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Seriously DHL? I’ve been home all day and my Ming package has been sitting for 12 hours at a nearly DHL warehouse. Need to run out for an appointment for 1.5 hours and that‘s the only time I am leaving the house and now DHL messages me and says to expect delivery between the timeframe I have to run out!!!!!!! Ugh! 😩


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> Seriously DHL? I’ve been home all day and my Ming package has been sitting for 12 hours at a nearly DHL warehouse. Need to run out for an appointment for 1.5 hours and that‘s the only time I am leaving the house and now DHL messages me and says to expect delivery between the timeframe I have to run out!!!!!!! Ugh! 😩


DHL is perfect at planning delivery during small windows you're not home. They delivered the Ming strap I ordered an hour after I left for 4 days for my brother's wedding.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

37.05 is here! 2 quick photos right out of the box with only the time set. Find it really odd that instructions say to set date and Moonphase with watch at 6 o’clock since you can’t see either the date window or the Moonphase when it’s set to 6. Overall time between 5 and 7 will not be optimal for looking at both the Moonphase and the date.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> 37.05 is here! 2 quick photos right out of the box with only the time set. Find it really odd that instructions say to set date and Moonphase with watch at 6 o’clock since you can’t see either the date window or the Moonphase when it’s set to 6. Overall time between 5 and 7 will not be optimal for looking at both the Moonphase and the date.
> 
> View attachment 16870238
> 
> View attachment 16870239


Looks like trash, I'll give you $50 for it. 

In all seriousness it looks good, I like the smaller bezel vs the 17.09. How is the dial texture with the light vs the 17.09?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cleverbs said:


> How is the dial texture with the light vs the 17.09?


Definitely much more muted and not as much pop! Darker color makes it more of a classy look than the attention grabber the 17.09 dial is.


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

christianj said:


> 37.05 is here! 2 quick photos right out of the box with only the time set. Find it really odd that instructions say to set date and Moonphase with watch at 6 o’clock since you can’t see either the date window or the Moonphase when it’s set to 6. Overall time between 5 and 7 will not be optimal for looking at both the Moonphase and the date.
> 
> View attachment 16870238
> 
> View attachment 16870239


Genuinely such a gorgeous dial.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Some bright afternoon pics in the car to show the dial better.



























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Received this email a couple of days ago about my 37.05. 

the photos from @christianj look great! Still not sure I'm going to keep this one though as I've cooled a bit on the brand and on watch collecting since i placed the order and have been gradually clearing out a good portion of the watches I already have (haven't sold any MING pieces yet and trying to decide if and what I might pass on). 


_Hello,

We hope this finds you well.

This email is to share an update on the 37.05s. We have just started deliveries for the end-Aug/Sept batch. If you’re receiving this e-mail, then your watch is scheduled to be part of this batch.

About half the watches from the batch are ready now and we have emailed customers already. The other half are expected to be ready by mid to end Sept and we will email you as soon as your watch is ready. We appreciate your patience as we work through the last stages of assembly and delivery.

Our delivery estimates are a general guideline and on a best effort basis. The exact date of when watches are ready is dependent on various factors such as assembly, regulation, QC and transit times. We request your patience as we work through this.

For those who will be receiving their watches in September, please know that all components are in stock and awaiting assembly, regulation and final checks.

Hasnida will be in touch as soon as watches are ready and in the meantime, thank you again for your patience.

Best regards,
Team MING_


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Jezzz.. that didnt take long…


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

downunder888 said:


> Jezzz.. that didnt take long…


"This was a limited production model made in lower numbers than some of their other recent releases - thereby making it more exclusive. It sold out instantly on release last year. It will never be made again and few are likely to appear for sale. I am only doing so reluctantly as it arrives almost a year after I ordered it at a time when I have just committed to a number of other difficult to obtain pieces. I will be more than happy to keep it if it doesn’t sell! "


🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## hmniq (Mar 16, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> "This was a limited production model made in lower numbers than some of their other recent releases - thereby making it more exclusive. It sold out instantly on release last year. It will never be made again and few are likely to appear for sale. I am only doing so reluctantly as it arrives almost a year after I ordered it at a time when I have just committed to a number of other difficult to obtain pieces. I will be more than happy to keep it if it doesn’t sell! "
> 
> 
> 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️


"reluctantly"


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

Wow I was one of the 5th anniversary giveaway winners today!!! No idea which of the items I won but it'll apparently arrive this month


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

downunder888 said:


> Jezzz.. that didnt take long…


Once people realized they could make a few easy dollars by buying a Ming at retail and flipping the minute they received it, this was inevitable. I'm sure it'll happen with the next releases too.


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## hmniq (Mar 16, 2019)

Cleverbs said:


> Once people realized they could make a few easy dollars by buying a Ming at retail and flipping the minute they received it, this was inevitable. I'm sure it'll happen with the next releases too.


I hope the new registration system helps tamp that down a bit. The alternatives are artificially high difficulty in buying watches, or higher price…


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Speaking of high prices, anyone buying the Ming 5th Anniversary Poster for $250+??













Horologer MING - MING 5th Anniversary Poster







www.ming.watch


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

WizardofWatch said:


> Speaking of high prices, anyone buying the Ming 5th Anniversary Poster for $250+??
> View attachment 16881431
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely not.


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

WizardofWatch said:


> Speaking of high prices, anyone buying the Ming 5th Anniversary Poster for $250+??
> View attachment 16881431
> 
> 
> ...


Not only is it ludicrously priced but I honestly don't look at it and get any Ming vibes from it. Probably doesn't help that I'm neither a poster person, nor do I like the aesthetic of the poster in question.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

downunder888 said:


> Jezzz.. that didnt take long…


For that price I might consider letting mine go too! 😳


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

WizardofWatch said:


> Speaking of high prices, anyone buying the Ming 5th Anniversary Poster for $250+??


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## smalleq (Jul 15, 2014)

RaptorHF said:


> Not only is it ludicrously priced but I honestly don't look at it and get any Ming vibes from it. Probably doesn't help that I'm neither a poster person, nor do I like the aesthetic of the poster in question.


If you've been following Ming for the last year, a lot of their teasers and social media campaigns around the newer 22 and 37 series of products have used this type of imagery. There are "easter eggs" with design cues from their various releases all over that image. 

Can certainly understand not liking the aesthetics, but it very much is in line with Ming's marketing and design work.


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## smalleq (Jul 15, 2014)

WizardofWatch said:


> Speaking of high prices, anyone buying the Ming 5th Anniversary Poster for $250+??
> View attachment 16881431
> 
> 
> ...


Don't know anything about printing posters, maybe they are using an incredibly nice printing process and paper? When I opened the email, I thought I was going to be a buyer figuring it was going to be max 100 bucks, but not a buyer at that price.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

smalleq said:


> If you've been following Ming for the last year, a lot of their teasers and social media campaigns around the newer 22 and 37 series of products have used this type of imagery. There are "easter eggs" with design cues from their various releases all over that image.
> 
> Can certainly understand not liking the aesthetics, but it very much is in line with Ming's marketing and design work.


Yep, Lee Yuen-Rapati (Lee Yuen-Rapati (@onehourwatch) • Instagram photos and videos) designed a lot of the pre-release teasers and artwork, which were exactly like this. I enjoyed the teasers and trying to decipher what the watches would look like. 

As for the price - I'm not an art guy, so I have no clue about how much a print should cost. I also have no idea what archival grade canvas is, but I'm getting a poster because I love LYR's work and his work for MING.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

It was hand drawn and took over +200h. People deserve their paycheck... Or at the very least to ask for it. 

I'm not a ming fanboy but if I was I'd definitely get one. It's awesome. A where's waldo of watch design.


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## bunnswatch (Mar 20, 2016)

singularityseven said:


> That's my only criticism of the watch too. I think if the black color went all the way to the edge of the dial, the beautiful fade of the mosaic to black could be a lot better appreciated. Because the way the mosaic sphere fades to black looks pretty incredible in person, and then it is somewhat abruptly stopped by the concentric circle ring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


are these are all y'all?


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

jmariorebelo said:


> It was hand drawn and took over +200h. People deserve their paycheck... Or at the very least to ask for it.
> 
> I'm not a ming fanboy but if I was I'd definitely get one. It's awesome. A where's waldo of watch design.


If it was a painting, I would understand a price of even a lot more than $250. But this is a print of a scan of a hand drawn painting. So not sure if it’s worth the $$. Of course, it may turn out to be great as well. 🤷🏻


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

WizardofWatch said:


> If it was a painting, I would understand a price of even a lot more than $250. But this is a print of a scan of a hand drawn painting. So not sure if it’s worth the $$. Of course, it may turn out to be great as well. 🤷🏻


High quality prints are quite good, vivid colors etc. For peasants like me who can't afford the real thing.

The Ming print evokes a manga-ish dystopian city like something out of Masamune Shirow's Appleseed series. A genre I'm quite fond of.









I detect some of these influences in his watch designs. Wonder if Ming is anime or manga fan... anyone know?


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

christianj said:


> Definitely much more muted and not as much pop! Darker color makes it more of a classy look than the attention grabber the 17.09 dial is.


It looks quite nice I think, I like the 3dness of the moonphase, its a nice on-design evolution. 


but also reemphasizes for me that the 17.09 is one of the "ideal" designs they have put out for a 3 hander. I think it will age very well, even vs the nicer new designs that have come recently (like the anniversary one etc.)


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

Is anyone looking for a Ming blue rubber strap in S length? I've got one but not sure I'll wear it tbh as I prefer contrasting colours for my blue 17.09. I'll list it as a sales post when I get a moment but thought I'd see if any of you fine folk might be interested in it first

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Another 37.05 popped up at Topper Pre-owned, price is only a couple hundred bucks above retail.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I haven't done a "re-buy" of a watch in my time in this hobby, but I wanted to have another go at the 18.01, and picked this up from a WUS member in excellent condition.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

I am just waiting for my notification that my 37.05 is ready to ship! The final few weeks are always the hardest! I have a nagging suspicion my Ming will arrive the same week as my Dornblueth and I will have to chose which gets the wrist time first! 😭😭


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

WizardofWatch said:


> I am just waiting for my notification that my 37.05 is ready to ship! The final few weeks are always the hardest! I have a nagging suspicion my Ming will arrive the same week as my Dornblueth and I will have to chose which gets the wrist time first! 😭😭


If you were to double wrist, we would not judge you. 

What kind of DB&S did you get?


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> I haven't done a "re-buy" of a watch in my time in this hobby, but I wanted to have another go at the 18.01, and picked this up from a WUS member in excellent condition.
> 
> View attachment 16890726
> 
> ...


Looking good man. As is the scenery.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> If you were to double wrist, we would not judge you.
> 
> What kind of DB&S did you get?


I went for the central seconds 3 hander with applied indices. Just love the absolute simplicity!
Will probably end up getting the engraved regulator next.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I haven't done a "re-buy" of a watch in my time in this hobby, but I wanted to have another go at the 18.01, and picked this up from a WUS member in excellent condition.
> 
> View attachment 16890726
> 
> ...


Woooooooow nice shots. What made you make a 180? How long were you thinking about it before pulling the trigger? Is it the same one you sold or just found another one?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Tpp3975 said:


> Looking good man. As is the scenery.


Thanks for the watch 🙌!



WizardofWatch said:


> I went for the central seconds 3 hander with applied indices. Just love the absolute simplicity!
> Will probably end up getting the engraved regulator next.


That sounds fantastic. I've been drooling over their regulators with the ceramic dials. They look so nice!



Kevkev1 said:


> Woooooooow nice shots. What made you make a 180? How long were you thinking about it before pulling the trigger? Is it the same one you sold or just found another one?


I've been thinking about it since I sold mine in early 2021 (I think?). I was soured by the windmilling rotor issue on the ETA2824-2 and after MING fixed it, I ended up just dramatically selling it. But I've been through a lot of MINGs since then and the diver feels like a special one of the lot so when I saw one pop up for sale here I had to bite.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Took my 18.01 (on the green Alcantara) to go check out the new-ish Hermes H08 blue titanium:


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> Took my 18.01 (on the green Alcantara) to go check out the new-ish Hermes H08 blue titanium:
> 
> View attachment 16892824
> 
> ...


I love the Hermes watches. There's not a lot of watches under $10k I'd pick over one of them.


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## Ludi415 (Aug 22, 2021)

PMd you. What I really want is a bracelet but rubber would be pretty comfortable too. What color?


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## Psudonim (11 mo ago)

I put the 18.01 on a new strap trailor strap


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Psudonim said:


> I put the 18.01 on a new strap trailor strap


Was this a custom order? I can't find any curved straps on their website. It looks great btw!


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

Ludi415 said:


> PMd you. What I really want is a bracelet but rubber would be pretty comfortable too. What color?


Replied. Strap is blue mate 

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## Psudonim (11 mo ago)

singularityseven said:


> Was this a custom order? I can't find any curved straps on their website. It looks great btw!


Yes this was a custom order. Dave was a great help.
I am loving the strap and the Ming is also getting more wrist time.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

New MING blogpost from Magnus Bosse regarding the wait times and deposits:






Horologer MING - Operating A Watch Company In A Squeezed Industry – On Lead Times And Deposits.







www.ming.watch







> From our start (almost to the day) 5 years ago, our efforts to create watches that we really like have been met with resounding demand from our collectors. For this, we’re thankful and we take it gratefully as motivation to continue and improve.
> 
> In that period, we have presented close to 50 individual references, and along the journey we as company have grown: the team is larger and more diversified, we could introduce time-limited drops to address growing demand and we now have our own ‘in-house’ ordering system.
> 
> ...


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> New MING blogpost from Magnus Bosse regarding the wait times and deposits:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As we've discussed on here before, I don't blame the brand for taking deposits. I would rather have an open ordering system with deposits and a guaranteed watch than playing AD games to get limited watches of bigger brands or even standard watches of some brands like Rolex. Other independent brands have longer lead times than Ming, but it sounds like Ming's lead times may increase due to supply issues (a major thing in manufacturing in general right now - you should see the lead times of electronic components that go into every day products).

Glad he took the time to explain their position though. The drop from 100% to 50% is pretty awesome and customer friendly.


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## QuartzCrisis (Apr 7, 2016)

My review of the new Ming buckle. It comes on all new Ming straps and if you haven't seen it it's like nothing you've ever seen before:


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

QuartzCrisis said:


> My review of the new Ming buckle. It comes on all new Ming straps and if you haven't seen it it's like nothing you've ever seen before:


Quite like the new buckle! Nice to see a brand focusing on an oft overlooked part of a watch!


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Totally off topic, did anyone here get notified about being winning the Ming 5th anniversary giveaway draw? Just curious as I have not seen any mention of it. And honestly, they were quite nice prizes!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

QuartzCrisis said:


> My review of the new Ming buckle. It comes on all new Ming straps and if you haven't seen it it's like nothing you've ever seen before:


Cool video, with some snippets of the 37.05 and 20.01 s2 in there too! I like the new strap. I thought there would be a learning curve to using it, but all you have to change in your approach is using the next larger hole in the strap to account for the under tuck. Getting it in and out is easier than it looks.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Well it helps me feel better over having the regular length strap, it looks like there's almost a benefit to having the extra length for easier tucking.


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## atvar (Aug 21, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> New MING blogpost from Magnus Bosse regarding the wait times and deposits:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting reading. I hadn't realized the shortage of suppliers was so significant. It indirectly answers a question I had, which was why they don't continue producing some of the cheaper, more popular lines indefinitely to generate revenue to fund the R&D of new lines - previously I'd guessed it was just a personal preference of Ming and the team to focus continually on new designs, but I guess if they have a hard limit of x hundred cases per year available, they're not going to want to assign any of those to re-issues...


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

atvar said:


> Interesting reading. I hadn't realized the shortage of suppliers was so significant. It indirectly answers a question I had, which was why they don't continue producing some of the cheaper, more popular lines indefinitely to generate revenue to fund the R&D of new lines - previously I'd guessed it was just a personal preference of Ming and the team to focus continually on new designs, but I guess if they have a hard limit of x hundred cases per year available, they're not going to want to assign any of those to re-issues...


Yeah, if you go back to the original announcement/review of the 17.06 Slate from Fratello, they wrote that MING planned to release 200 of the 17.06s each year. The situation that Magnus describes explains it, if parts are a pain in the butt to source and they want to keep pushing their designs then they would put all their energy into new models. 
_
Only 200 of these pieces will be made and will begin shipping in March 2020. Another 200 will be made each year and that’s nice, but you’ll need to act quickly if waiting isn’t your game. This newest 17.06 is a damn nice watch and if you think you want one, do it and do it soon.










Hands-On: The New MING 17.06 Slate


In an exclusive, we go hands-on with the fantastic & brand new MING 17.06 Slate - out today and ready to order!




www.fratellowatches.com




_


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

To @christianj and others that have got their 37.05 - what are your thoughts after having owned it for a while?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> To @christianj and others that have got their 37.05 - what are your thoughts after having owned it for a while?


Since I was in Europe on a trip for 10 days, I really haven't had much of a chance to wear it other than the first day I had it. It didn't make the trip to Europe with me since I was worried about possibly scratching it up in my travels.

Couple of things that jumped out at me:
1. I felt the dial was more black than blue and I was a bit disappointed that the texture of the dial seemed to be more visible in the press pics than in real life.
2. Was surprised that the moonphase center circle was a brighter blue than in the press pics. I guess overall I thought the dial and the moonphase dot would be similar in color based on the press pics and in the end the dial was more black and the moonphase circle was more blue.
3. Watch felt great on the wrist and I like the new case design. Some have mentioned that it might be less of a scratch magnet due to the larger dial opening and thus smaller bezel but I'm not so sure about that.
4. LOVED the clasp! This is my first Ming with the new clasp that you tuck the remainder of the strap under. I was really concerned that strap being tucked under would be uncomfortable but it was the complete opposite.
5. I felt that the watch showed dust and fuzz more on the crystal. This was likely due to the dark dial and the domed crystal. 

Overall very happy with my decision to pick up the 37.05! Some of my nitpicking comments above are in my opinion expected when you buy a watch based on press pics without actually getting to handle it before the purchase....we all know that things in real life are different than they are in pics but that's just part of the game we play. I will hopefully get some more time with it over the next couple of weeks and can likely add some other thoughts after that. If anyone has any specific questions, please let me know.


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

The 17.09 blue just arrived! It's STUNNING in person



http://imgur.com/a/1jAHkhc


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## ajg1960 (Jan 5, 2015)

Here is my 17.09 on a DeLugs orange Buttero leather strap with curved lug ends. Not for everyone I'm sure, but certainly gets noticed.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> The 17.09 blue just arrived! It's STUNNING in person
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Congratulations on the new watch!

I've got my 18.01 on wrist today with the green alcantara strap:


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

ajg1960 said:


> Here is my 17.09 on a DeLugs orange Buttero leather strap with curved lug ends. Not for everyone I'm sure, but certainly gets noticed.
> View attachment 16904307
> View attachment 16904330


I second that!!


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## nsims (6 mo ago)

singularityseven said:


> I figured it is time for MING to get it's own little corner in this forum, where MING owners and fans can come together and discuss these watches.
> 
> I'll go first,
> 
> ...


Wry attractive watch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

Such a nice dial


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I don't want intentionally drive traffic to a dealer flipping a 37.05, but their photographs are some of the best I've seen of the Moonphase so far, so here are some pictures from Kibble UK's listing:


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Indeed some of the nicest pics I’ve seen of the 37.05! What’s funny is that if you search Ming (as well as Kurono Tokyo) on their website you will see they’ve pretty much had one watch of each model that’s been released lately that they’ve sold/listed. Either they have a customer who keeps buying to sell or maybe they are doing so themselves.


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## S_Collector (4 mo ago)

Hello everyone! Got an allocation for a 37.04, but the very high price is making me hesitate a bit. I do not intend to flip it, as I only buy watches do wear and enjoy, but still thinking at value retention given the investment. There seems to be a premium on other models, but they start from a significantly lower price. Do you think it will hold value starting from such a high price point? Thank you!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

S_Collector said:


> Hello everyone! Got an allocation for a 37.04, but the very high price is making me hesitate a bit. I do not intend to flip it, as I only buy watches do wear and enjoy, but still thinking at value retention given the investment. There seems to be a premium on other models, but they start from a significantly lower price. Do you think it will hold value starting from such a high price point? Thank you!


You are likely going to get assaulted with posts saying "wAtChEs aRe nOt iNvEsTmEnTs" for asking such a treasonous question, and there maybe some truth to that. But I also understand that when you spend $30k on something, you'd prefer it not to be worth $5 once you have it in hand.

Given MING's 5-year history, it would appear that their higher end pieces (19 series typically, since they've been around the longest) rarely come up for sale, and when they do, they still manage to command significant premiums over retail. In general and across the catalog, they seem to do a decent job at 'retaining value'. But to say more than that would require some insight into the future, which is a difficult ask. The market can change its course in an instant, so I wouldn't count on any watch as a long term store of value. The total number of MING watches in the wild is also rapidly increasing, and the same goes for their high end pieces. So time will tell how big of an appetite the market really has for MING.

But, given the heritage of the movement in the 37.04 and how popular the Cartier Tortue Monopoussoir is, I can't imagine it'll be hard to find a buyer for it at some point in the future.


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

My giveaway prize should be here next week! In the meantime I still love this dial


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Look now, because Bernard Watch has one for sale.


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

17.09 on a Tuns Leather waxy golden strap.

Saw lots of good reviews on Etsy about his straps so emailed asking if he could do curved ends and quick release which he could. For about half the price of Delugs (and similar quality) I'm very happy with it and will be ordering several more from them.









Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## bearattack (Sep 26, 2021)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> My giveaway prize should be here next week!


Did you get a shipping email? Still waiting on mine!


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

bearattack said:


> Did you get a shipping email? Still waiting on mine!


Yup got an email from DHL, not sure what I won, but I would guess the straps


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Just received my 5th anniversary poster and ... I like it. Honestly turned out nicer than I expected. Nice touch printing on the "archival grade canvas", feels more like a painting. Definitely a worthwhile spend for fans of the brand imo.


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## Delugs (Jul 29, 2020)

Hey everyone! Finally got my 37.05, here’s my first impressions:

Dial pattern is very subtle, and hard to see (not in a good or bad way) unless you got the right lighting
Moonphase and date execution is neat.
Those lugs are sharp! 
Pretty cool to see the lume on the minute track lighting up as you head indoors
Hour and minute hand are a little too similar in length for comfort
Always nice to have a display case back. Skeletonised movement is a nice touch.
Size (38mm) is good on my 6.5 inch wrist
Thickness of 11.9mm is pretty well-balanced.
Domed crystal is cool. But it's hard to take photos without reflections going everywhere. Would have been nice to get some AR coating on.
I wish I didn’t have to wait 9 months for this...
Hard to take good photos of this because of s/n 9, but I'll try my best to take some and share them here!


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@Delugs Congrats on getting yours and it’s interesting that your first impressions are pretty much in line what I had posted as mine. There‘s a small consensus and we will see what others say as they ship more of them.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Delugs said:


> View attachment 16920296
> 
> 
> Hey everyone! Finally got my 37.05, here’s my first impressions:
> ...


I can appreciate the honest feedback from you (and others) on this watch. It seems like the lack of sapphire layer on the dial is contributing to the muted dial pattern visuals at most angles...

Can't believe there hasn't been any movement pictures yet!


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## demilo (Jan 5, 2022)

Pogo247 said:


> Is anyone looking for a Ming blue rubber strap in S length? I've got one but not sure I'll wear it tbh as I prefer contrasting colours for my blue 17.09. I'll list it as a sales post when I get a moment but thought I'd see if any of you fine folk might be interested in it first
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


 Hi yes looking fue the light blue rubber 20mm strap. 
Are you selling?


----------



## demilo (Jan 5, 2022)

Hi, looking forward to seeing what upgrades they bring out for the mk2 universal bracelet later this year.
Ultra wish list - custom fit with the 17.09
Wishlist: steel this time (watch bracelets are jewellry, we don't need it to be lightweight) with the amazing hardness coatings that the likes of Traska and Sinn are doing
Sinn Uhren: TEGIMENT
Venturer | MINT GREEN (traskawatch.com)


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## Delugs (Jul 29, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> Can't believe there hasn't been any movement pictures yet!


Let's fix that! Personally I really like it, just wish it occupied more of the case.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

The 18.01 has been getting a lot of wrist time lately.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Delugs said:


> Let's fix that! Personally I really like it, just wish it occupied more of the case.
> View attachment 16926366


I agree, but it looks great and I'm glad they're starting to use more display backs.

On a different note - do you have any plans to offer different clasps beyond the basic pin buckle and traditional deployant? Like... A brushed deployant or a keeper less type?


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Delugs said:


> Let's fix that! Personally I really like it, just wish it occupied more of the case.
> View attachment 16926366


Nice strap too 👌👌 it’s annoying that the Ming branded straps have spring bars that break too easily for the money.


----------



## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

demilo said:


> Hi, looking forward to seeing what upgrades they bring out for the mk2 universal bracelet later this year.
> Ultra wish list - custom fit with the 17.09
> Wishlist: steel this time (watch bracelets are jewellry, we don't need it to be lightweight) with the amazing hardness coatings that the likes of Traska and Sinn are doing
> Sinn Uhren: TEGIMENT
> Venturer | MINT GREEN (traskawatch.com)


Honestly, since this is a wish list, it’d be cool to see a dlc bracelet offered. Or at least two tone dlc and titanium or just plain steel. Why not try a different take on two tone colors like that


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## ChronoTraveler (Oct 28, 2014)

One question to blue 17.09 owners: is the dial more matte or metalic? I'm considering one but I tend to prefer matte watches (no glare).

Also, what are the best and worst characteristics of the watch for you after some time wearing it?


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## demilo (Jan 5, 2022)

ChronoTraveler said:


> One question to blue 17.09 owners: is the dial more matte or metalic? I'm considering one but I tend to prefer matte watches (no glare).
> 
> Also, what are the best and worst characteristics of the watch for you after some time wearing it?


Low reflection dial because the centre guilloche pattern and outer dial brushed finish breaks up the light.


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## Pogo247 (May 11, 2020)

demilo said:


> Hi yes looking fue the light blue rubber 20mm strap.
> Are you selling?


Hey mate, it's royal blue not light blue

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

My 5th year anniversary prize arrived!!! Here's the unboxing 😍 



















































































Such an awesome prize! I'll be switching these straps all the time on my 17.09 and 37.07 when that arrives.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> My 5th year anniversary prize arrived!!! Here's the unboxing 😍
> 
> View attachment 16928241
> 
> ...


That looks like a great haul, congratulations!


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> My 5th year anniversary prize arrived!!! Here's the unboxing 😍
> 
> View attachment 16928241
> 
> ...


Wow that's an awesome prize! Congrats.


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

So cool - what’s the first thing (brown pouch?)
I love that Ming did this btw. And not in a small “5 lucky winners” fashion. 



TheSeikoGuy said:


> My 5th year anniversary prize arrived!!! Here's the unboxing 😍
> 
> View attachment 16928241
> 
> ...





TheSeikoGuy said:


> My 5th year anniversary prize arrived!!! Here's the unboxing 😍
> 
> View attachment 16928241
> 
> ...


----------



## Delugs (Jul 29, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> I agree, but it looks great and I'm glad they're starting to use more display backs.
> 
> On a different note - do you have any plans to offer different clasps beyond the basic pin buckle and traditional deployant? Like... A brushed deployant or a keeper less type?


I'm still running tests on the keeperless type of straps. I don't know if it really makes that much of a benefit in the look, and since it is a little harder to use (or get used to), the trade-off may not be worth it.

We are getting new deployant clasps made! Maybe early next year these will be ready.


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## Delugs (Jul 29, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> Nice strap too 👌👌 it’s annoying that the Ming branded straps have spring bars that break too easily for the money.


Ouch, didn't know that about the Jean Rousseau straps...I find that the edges are very rough / sharp, a little uncomfortable. But the rubber-style of strap is nice.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Delugs said:


> But the rubber-style of strap is nice.


I'm not a big fan of JR's leather straps either. I think a lot of brands (yours included) do a much better job for a lot less money. I'd say the rubber ones are my favorite, followed by their alcantara.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Delugs said:


> I'm still running tests on the keeperless type of straps. I don't know if it really makes that much of a benefit in the look, and since it is a little harder to use (or get used to), the trade-off may not be worth it.
> 
> We are getting new deployant clasps made! Maybe early next year these will be ready.


Totally understand. I prefer the deployant anyway, so awesome news. Thanks for the update!


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## Douif (3 mo ago)

Hey guys,

I just received the news and I have a 37.04 reserved. I'm glad to join you all on the ming adventure


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Man the wait for the 37.07 feels so long lol.


----------



## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

yellowfury said:


> Man the wait for the 37.07 feels so long lol.


I am still waiting for notification on my 37.05!


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## John Price (Feb 21, 2011)

singularityseven said:


> The 18.01 has been getting a lot of wrist time lately.
> View attachment 16926399


I would not've thought a green strap would look good on that watch if you'd just told me about it. But seeing this photo - that's a great combo!


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

yellowfury said:


> Man the wait for the 37.07 feels so long lol.


Welcome to the painful waiting room!

6.5 months down, ~4 months to go on my 22.01.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

WizardofWatch said:


> I am still waiting for notification on my 37.05!


Same...


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> Same...
> 
> View attachment 16934732


That'll be me come January waiting for my confirmation.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> That'll be me come January waiting for my confirmation.


I think my Kyoto is due around that time too 😂 

I clearly have a MING problem.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> I think my Kyoto is due around that time too 😂
> 
> I clearly have a MING problem.


There's worse brands to be in love with! 

I'm just glad that over the past 6 months I haven't ended up regretting Kyoto over Gilt... and hoping that doesn't change once watches are in hand.


----------



## usd97 (May 22, 2021)

What are people’s thoughts on kurono?


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

usd97 said:


> What are people’s thoughts on kurono?


Personally I don't get it. I mean the dials are nice, but I don't understand the hype or feel they're worth the price... and especially not worth the second hand pricing.


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## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Cleverbs said:


> Personally I don't get it. I mean the dials are nice, but I don't understand the hype or feel they're worth the price... and especially not worth the second hand pricing.


It’s interesting that you think Kurono isn’t worth the hype but Ming is? I happen to think they are both worth the hype. Also second hand prices for Kurono have fallen and most are now available near or below msrp. Kurono has made some beautiful watches this year, all priced reasonably. Kurono does not make people wait a year either as they tend to be available for shipping shortly after shipping (usually no more than a few months). Not intended to start a flame war and Kurono may not be your jam, but their popularity is well deserved imho.


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> It’s interesting that you think Kurono isn’t worth the hype but Ming is? I happen to think they are both worth the hype. Also second hand prices for Kurono have fallen and most are now available near or below msrp. Kurono has made some beautiful watches this year, all priced reasonably. Kurono does not make people wait a year either as they tend to be available for shipping shortly after shipping (usually no more than a few months). Not intended to start a flame war and Kurono may not be your jam, but their popularity is well deserved imho.


It's my opinion, obviously. Their basic 3 hand watches just feel too basic to me, and while I like the way their complication watches look, I'd struggle to spend nearly $4k on one of their chronos (too thick for me). I understand why people like virtually everything they put out, but they're just not my cup of tea.

On the flip side, I don't love every Ming release either. There's a handful I love (22.01, many of the special projects), a few I like but wouldn't buy for various reasons (17.09, 37.07), and quite a few that I personally don't like. 

The wait thing I get if it truly bothers you, as it seems to for some, but it just isn't a big deal to me. I'd rather wait for what I truly want than buy something immediately available that is a compromise.


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

Cleverbs said:


> It's my opinion, obviously. Their basic 3 hand watches just feel too basic to me, and while I like the way their complication watches look, I'd struggle to spend nearly $4k on one of their chronos (too thick for me). I understand why people like virtually everything they put out, but they're just not my cup of tea.
> 
> On the flip side, I don't love every Ming release either. There's a handful I love (22.01, many of the special projects), a few I like but wouldn't buy for various reasons (17.09, 37.07), and quite a few that I personally don't like.
> 
> The wait thing I get if it truly bothers you, as it seems to for some, but it just isn't a big deal to me. I'd rather wait for what I truly want than buy something immediately available that is a compromise.


Out of curiosity, what are the various reasons for the reluctance towards the 17.09 and 37.07?


----------



## Tpp3975 (May 23, 2021)

Cleverbs said:


> It's my opinion, obviously. Their basic 3 hand watches just feel too basic to me, and while I like the way their complication watches look, I'd struggle to spend nearly $4k on one of their chronos (too thick for me). I understand why people like virtually everything they put out, but they're just not my cup of tea.
> 
> On the flip side, I don't love every Ming release either. There's a handful I love (22.01, many of the special projects), a few I like but wouldn't buy for various reasons (17.09, 37.07), and quite a few that I personally don't like.
> 
> The wait thing I get if it truly bothers you, as it seems to for some, but it just isn't a big deal to me. I'd rather wait for what I truly want than buy something immediately available that is a compromise.


Fair enough. I haven’t gotten a Kurono yet as they seem too dressy my work at home lifestyle but I’ve been tempted a few times. I understand the “basic” comment but I would add that while basic, they are unique and well designed. I’m still waiting for you all to receive your GMTs so I can buy one from you immediately and with no wait …


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

RaptorHF said:


> Out of curiosity, what are the various reasons for the reluctance towards the 17.09 and 37.07?


17.09 - Not a huge fan of a two hander with a closed case back. I want a visual representation of the watch running. Loved everything else about the watch. If it had an open case back, I would've ordered a blue one without hesitation.

37.07 - I don't like manual wind watches without a power reserve indicator (either front or back). 

Both are just personal preference things. The 22.01 is both automatic and has an open case back (with the added bonus of a GMT that I was looking to buy anyway now that I'm traveling more for work), and the unique green/grey dial fills a spot in my collection for a dark dial that isn't blue.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Tpp3975 said:


> Fair enough. I haven’t gotten a Kurono yet as they seem too dressy my work at home lifestyle but I’ve been tempted a few times. I understand the “basic” comment but I would add that while basic, they are unique and well designed. I’m still waiting for you all to receive your GMTs so I can buy one from you immediately and with no wait …


Oh yeah, the dials are absolutely unique and well designed. Just not jumping out the screen for me in pictures on the three handers. The Chronograph II watches are gorgeous, just not my style/size.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

usd97 said:


> What are people’s thoughts on kurono?


I've owned three - a Chrono Tokyo (JDM) Bullseye, a Chrono Tokyo Chronograph 1 and a Kurono Tokyo Toki. I think their cases are very well made and their designs are excellent, but their dial quality control didn't live up to the price tag for me. I have much respect for Hajime Asaoka as a watchmaker, and I think he has a good eye for design, but I couldn't get myself to enjoy these watches. And in my opinion, the way they handle their social media and brand messaging just rubs me the wrong way.

I now try my best to avoid discussing a watch's "worth", but I personally felt like they didn't deliver as much as I paid for them. But I have other friends who feel strongly about the brand and love their pieces.


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## usd97 (May 22, 2021)

Tpp3975 said:


> It’s interesting that you think Kurono isn’t worth the hype but Ming is? I happen to think they are both worth the hype. Also second hand prices for Kurono have fallen and most are now available near or below msrp. Kurono has made some beautiful watches this year, all priced reasonably. Kurono does not make people wait a year either as they tend to be available for shipping shortly after shipping (usually no more than a few months). Not intended to start a flame war and Kurono may not be your jam, but their popularity is well deserved imho.


Same! I feel like kuronos watchmaker Hajime, is definitely more creative with his watches and colors. I share the same thoughts


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## usd97 (May 22, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> I've owned three - a Chrono Tokyo (JDM) Bullseye, a Chrono Tokyo Chronograph 1 and a Kurono Tokyo Toki. I think their cases are very well made and their designs are excellent, but their dial quality control didn't live up to the price tag for me. I have much respect for Hajime Asaoka as a watchmaker, and I think he has a good eye for design, but I couldn't get myself to enjoy these watches. And in my opinion, the way they handle their social media and brand messaging just rubs me the wrong way.
> 
> I now try my best to avoid discussing a watch's "worth", but I personally felt like they didn't deliver as much as I paid for them. But I have other friends who feel strongly about the brand and love their pieces.


And in my opinion, the way they handle their social media and brand messaging just rubs me the wrong way.

what do you exactly mean by this?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

usd97 said:


> And in my opinion, the way they handle their social media and brand messaging just rubs me the wrong way.
> 
> what do you exactly mean by this?


When I got my Chrono Tokyo Bullseye and contacted them regarding some questions about QC - they refused to answer anything because I was "international" with a JDM product, and said I should bring it to them in Tokyo if I have any questions. They tried to pretend the JDM line of 'Chrono Tokyo' watches don't exist for a while, by untagging themselves from photographs of these JDM watches. They then made an announcement saying their JDM line of Chrono Tokyo watches were inferior to the Kurono Tokyo watches, and then Japanese collectors got upset and asked Hajime on twitter if this was true, which seemed to stir things up, because he said this was not true and the instagram post was deleted a while after.

The whole "watches for women, nominated by men" drama was not to my taste either, followed by them untagging themselves from any "male wrist" wearing one of their watches for women... which were identical to their watches for men, just with a different dial color 😂

Again, nothing against the man himself, but his social media team seem to be amateurs at best. I don't want to turn this thread into a Kurono one, since there is one already - The Unofficial Kurono/Chrono Tokyo thread


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## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

I had the Kurono Toki and sold it after 12 months of ownership. While I love the dial, that was about it. It’s not as fun and unique looking as a Ming.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Pic of my recently delivered 20.11











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Pic of my recently delivered 20.11
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Give us a lume shot please 🙌


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## sorlou (Nov 9, 2020)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Pic of my recently delivered 20.11
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great shot. What lighting was it that got the mosaic to show so prominently? Mine doesn't seem to be very visible.


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## sorlou (Nov 9, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Give us a lume shot please 🙌


Here's one from me. Taken in a completely dark room. Hand held from cellphone. Hope it's OK to post here under Mr. Blahblah's thread.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Pic of my recently delivered 20.11
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Goddamn this watch is just insane. 

I still think the minute hand should be longer and reach the minute track.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

sorlou said:


> What lighting was it that got the mosaic to show so prominently? Mine doesn't seem to be very visible.


Ditto pray tell.


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## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

Tpp3975 said:


> I happen to think they are both worth the hype. Also second hand prices for Kurono have fallen and most are now available near or below msrp. Kurono has made some beautiful watches this year, all priced reasonably. Kurono does not make people wait a year either as they tend to be available for shipping shortly after shipping (usually no more than a few months). Not intended to start a flame war and Kurono may not be your jam, but their popularity is well deserved imho.


I looked at some of the earlier releases of Kurono when they were initially released, was interested in getting one but noticed the subsequent models were basically just dial changes with the same underlying movement. Eventually lost interest, like I have with GS and the gazillion dial limited editions.

I think Ming at least is using different movements and refinishing them to make them more interesting. Additionally I think there are more physical dial variations rather than just printing in different colors. No knock on Kurono fans, just my two cents on why Ming kept me more engaged over time. Also probably cause I'm more of a movement guy than dials.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

My 18.01 doing its best Darth Vader impression:


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

The lume on Mings specifically always seem to look so gorgeous.


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

17.09 for ming Monday


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> 17.09 for ming Monday
> View attachment 16940942


That's the Burgundy's stock strap right? Looks surprisingly good on the Blue.


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> That's the Burgundy's stock strap right? Looks surprisingly good on the Blue.


Yes I think this is the strap the burgundy shipped on. I still prefer the black Alcantara but this is a nice change


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

sorlou said:


> Great shot. What lighting was it that got the mosaic to show so prominently? Mine doesn't seem to be very visible.


It was in my car under overcast sky. The prominence of the pattern is very light condition dependent 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

jmariorebelo said:


> Goddamn this watch is just insane.
> 
> I still think the minute hand should be longer and reach the minute track.


Yeah i also kinda wish the minute hand was longer. Nothing is ever perfect! That’s what makes the hobby infuriatingly fun hah


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Some more photos 




























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gazza74 (Jul 27, 2013)

For anyone who has anyone purchased curved spring bars for the 17.09s to use other straps with it, an you share what was the thickness of spring bars needed? I'd like to use an aftermarket strap since the stock one is too short for me, but I see both 1.5 and 1.8mm thick curved spring bars available but not sure which would fit properly.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Gazza74 said:


> For anyone who has anyone purchased curved spring bars for the 17.09s to use other straps with it, an you share what was the thickness of spring bars needed? I'd like to use an aftermarket strap since the stock one is too short for me, but I see both 1.5 and 1.8mm thick curved spring bars available but not sure which would fit properly.


I am using curved straps by Delugs. I am not sure about the thickness of the spring bars though as they come built into the straps.


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## Gazza74 (Jul 27, 2013)

Raindrops said:


> I am using curved straps by Delugs. I am not sure about the thickness of the spring bars though as they come built into the straps.


I like Delugs straps but my best fit is in between their medium and long strap length, so unfortunately they are out for me. I have a couple of nice custom straps but need separate curved spring bars as they don't have built-in ones. I may go with the 1.5mm option and see how it holds up.


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

Just got my 37.05 teaser email 😬

Hello,

We hope this finds you well.

This email is to share an update on the 37.05s. If you’re receiving this e-mail, your watch is scheduled to be part of the Sept/ Oct batch.

As of this week, we expect to complete deliveries of this batch by the end of October and we will email you as soon as your watch is ready. We appreciate your patience as we work through the last stages of assembly and delivery.

Our delivery estimates are a general guideline and on a best effort basis. The exact date of when watches are ready is dependent on various factors such as assembly, regulation, QC and transit times. We request your patience as we work through this.

Hasnida will be in touch as soon as your watch is ready. Thank you again for your patience.

Best,
Praneeth


----------



## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Icelatte said:


> Just got my 37.05 teaser email 😬
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...


Nice!! My original date was end of Sept. So hopefully I get mine soon as well!

<Edit> Got mine as well!! Woohoo!


----------



## En_Nissen (Oct 10, 2018)

Gazza74 said:


> I like Delugs straps but my best fit is in between their medium and long strap length, so unfortunately they are out for me. I have a couple of nice custom straps but need separate curved spring bars as they don't have built-in ones. I may go with the 1.5mm option and see how it holds up.


You can order custom straps from delugs too, with custom length as well.


----------



## Gazza74 (Jul 27, 2013)

En_Nissen said:


> You can order custom straps from delugs too, with custom length as well.


I'll have to keep that in mind for next time I order straps. For now I picked up some custom straps from HD Straps that are quite nice, and also from a couple of Etsy strap makers. They all are quite nice for their various price points. For now I want to use some of these on my 2 Mings.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Delugs appears to use 1.5mm (but @Delugs can probably correct me if they use different ones on their production straps), since they sell them separately here: Quick Release Spring Bars (Curved) - 1.5mm


----------



## ajg1960 (Jan 5, 2015)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Yeah i also kinda wish the minute hand was longer. Nothing is ever perfect! That’s what makes the hobby infuriatingly fun hah
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Guys always want their **** to be longer…..


----------



## Delugs (Jul 29, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Delugs appears to use 1.5mm (but @Delugs can probably correct me if they use different ones on their production straps), since they sell them separately here: Quick Release Spring Bars (Curved) - 1.5mm


Yes! We use 1.5mm curved spring bars on our straps, and those fit well with the Mings


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Icelatte said:


> Just got my 37.05 teaser email 😬
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...


I got this email as well and then payment request for the rest of the balance about a week after. There is another email from Ming apologising for the delay and mentions of a small gift will be included. Wonder what that might be.


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

MrBlahBlah said:


> Some more photos
> 
> 
> 
> ...


these are some insane shots, so so good!!!!


----------



## demilo (Jan 5, 2022)

xLuc89x said:


> Ming 17.09 on NATO strap. Felt like the watch looked too small on my 7.5" wrist with the leather strap, but this makes it look just right!


Got the same issue. Thanks for the tip.
Presumably it took a standard 20mm nato?


----------



## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> My 18.01 doing its best Darth Vader impression:
> 
> View attachment 16940647


Is there a characteristic of the watch that you appreciate more the second time around? Every time I look at the Ming diver I always tell myself “I can’t believe this thing actually exists” (in a good way). Such an original diver.


----------



## Julian Yeo (Jun 23, 2016)

Cleverbs said:


> There's worse brands to be in love with!
> 
> I'm just glad that over the past 6 months I haven't ended up regretting Kyoto over Gilt... and hoping that doesn't change once watches are in hand.


I’m the exact opposite of you with a Gilt purchase hoping I don’t end up wanting the Kyoto later.


----------



## demilo (Jan 5, 2022)

demilo said:


> Got the same issue. Thanks for the tip.
> Presumably it took a standard 20mm nato?


yeah it will take 20mm


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Julian Yeo said:


> I’m the exact opposite of you with a Gilt purchase hoping I don’t end up wanting the Kyoto later.


If Gilt would have been the one for sale first I'd probably have that one coming. Since this is my first Ming, I wanted two shots at ordering one in case I missed out on the first Ming I truly wanted.


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

My turn today getting the long waited email from DHL that my 37.05 is on the way. Should arrive by mid next week.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> Is there a characteristic of the watch that you appreciate more the second time around? Every time I look at the Ming diver I always tell myself “I can’t believe this thing actually exists” (in a good way). Such an original diver.


I think it was more about me getting over some of the things that bothered me the first time I had it - I expected more from the bracelet for a tool watch/dive watch, and I used to think it was too chunky. This time around I knew what to expect with the bracelet and I'm actually enjoying the chunkiness of the watch.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> If Gilt would have been the one for sale first I'd probably have that one coming. Since this is my first Ming, I wanted two shots at ordering one in case I missed out on the first Ming I truly wanted.


I know someone who changed their mind about the color for the 17.09 and emailed MING, there was someone else who had got the other dial color who had done the same thing. So if you make up your mind for sure that you want to swap you can try your luck asking them to help you out.

My 37.05 arrived in Taiwan and should be delivered by the end of the day. They said they were throwing in a small gift because it was later than anticipated, wonder what it could be (hopefully not a poster or a strap that I already have!)

This is my fourth MING so far each one has been delivered late:
17.06 Slate - purchased Dec. 2019 originally intended for Feb 2020, then the pandemic started, +3 months delivery time
27.02 - purchased Jan 2021, originally intended Dec 2021, flooding in Malaysia as I recall, +1 month delivery time
17.09 - bought in the first owners' round, April 2021, originally intended Aug 2021, movement issue, +3 months delivery time
37.05 - purchased Nov. 2021, originally intended Aug 2022, not sure why it was delayed, +2 months delivery time

This time in the email they sent me requesting the second half of the payment they wrote: 

_All our watches are shipped at a risk weighted lower value declaration and fully insured up till the point of delivery. If your local customs authority requires any additional documentation for clearance, please reach out to us first and we will assist._

I wondered before how they got away with declaring a lower value because I would always end up paying much lower than the 10% import tax in Taiwan. It's not quite as generous as previous deliveries from them, for the 27.02 I paid about 0.6% tax whereas for the 37.05 I'm paying 4.5% (list price for these two models is about the same).


----------



## Friday (Sep 6, 2013)

conrad227 said:


> _All our watches are shipped at a risk weighted lower value declaration and fully insured up till the point of delivery. If your local customs authority requires any additional documentation for clearance, please reach out to us first and we will assist._


Hi there. Does this mean that they declare lower value? I really need this as import duties are very high in my country))


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

Yeah that's usually how they do it.


----------



## Friday (Sep 6, 2013)

conrad227 said:


> Yeah that's usually how they do it.


Thanks. Any idea what sort of amounts they use?


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

I'll send by DM


----------



## hong999 (Feb 1, 2013)

QuartzCrisis said:


> review of the new Ming buckle


Any idea that we can source this new Ming tuck in buckle from 3rd party given that Ming is not selling the new buckle separately?
I tried Amazon and Aliexpress, but no result.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

I doubt you would be able to source it elsewhere but I'm not really sure why you would want to. I think in the review it says that they buckles aren't compatible with other straps anyway.


----------



## hong999 (Feb 1, 2013)

This buckle can reduce the wear and tear of leather strap as compared to general pin buckle, where we no need to search for the 2 loops and tuck in the extra strap into the loops.
In addition, the design can slightly modified to fit 18mm / 20mm leather strap.


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

Friday said:


> Hi there. Does this mean that they declare lower value? I really need this as import duties are very high in my country))


from my first delivery of the 17.09, I notice the tax was calculated based on amount of the second deposit so I paid the tax on 50% of the value.


----------



## QuartzCrisis (Apr 7, 2016)

I don't think so. But please see my video, I explain that Ming said that these new buckles will not work with the old straps 



hong999 said:


> Any idea that we can source this new Ming tuck in buckle from 3rd party given that Ming is not selling the new buckle separately?
> I tried Amazon and Aliexpress, but no result.


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Just got an email that the 22.01 is still "on track" with shipments beginning in December. So unless there's a major issue in assembly...


----------



## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Cleverbs said:


> Just got an email that the 22.01 is still "on track" with shipments beginning in December. So unless there's a major issue in assembly...


Yeah. I hope so. I am still waiting for my 37.05! Although, I did get the email saying that it’s almost ready over a week ago. So guessing it’s only a matter of a few days.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




----------



## paedipod (Feb 11, 2006)

well my 37.05 seems to be stuck in customs....problems with not enough detail on the Pro Forma invoice apparently.


----------



## bearattack (Sep 26, 2021)

I was one of the lucky ones who received the 5th anniversary giveaway box. It feels good and well made. Take a gander!
Now the long wait for the 37.07...


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

bearattack said:


> I was one of the lucky ones who received the 5th anniversary giveaway box. It feels good and well made. Take a gander!
> Now the long wait for the 37.07...
> 
> View attachment 16973661
> ...


Congrats. I'm only slightly jealous...


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

bearattack said:


> I was one of the lucky ones who received the 5th anniversary giveaway box. It feels good and well made. Take a gander!
> Now the long wait for the 37.07...
> 
> View attachment 16973661
> ...


That looks great, congratulations!


----------



## fchen (Jun 12, 2021)

I am very jealous here. lol


----------



## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

bearattack said:


> I was one of the lucky ones who received the 5th anniversary giveaway box. It feels good and well made. Take a gander!
> Now the long wait for the 37.07...
> 
> View attachment 16973661
> ...


Very nice! Congratulations!


----------



## downunder888 (Sep 27, 2020)

My 37.05 came today. I have to say, its very nice. I love the 17.09 but prefer the case design of the 37.05. Dont love the new tug in buckle yet so I swap the strap for a pair of delug.

Ming sent a watch tray as a small token for the delay. Dont know if I would ever use it lol


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

New Ming email... All future releases are delayed 5-6 months while they catch up on existing orders. I wonder if that'll push up prices on the secondary market while there's a gap in new watches.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> All future releases are delayed 5-6 months while they catch up on existing orders


Smart move I think. If they announced more new watches while folks are still waiting on up-to 3-4 watches, I think we'd see a lot of sour faces.






Horologer MING - On Deliveries And Delays







www.ming.watch







> There comes a time, or times, in the life of every company where we face challenges. Some serious challenges whose scope goes beyond our ability to resolve internally, because a watch is a complex thing - hundreds of parts from nearly as many suppliers, and if any one of those suffers a delay or issues - then everything gets pushed back accordingly. In the current state of events, global manufacturing as a whole is facing supply chain constraints and disruptions at every level. The same is true of the watch industry as everything is increasingly interconnected - raw material supplies, logistics, machine parts and tools etc.
> 
> We are acutely aware that we have been sending multiple notifications to customers advising of delays in delivery - when we do this, it’s based on the latest and most accurate information we have from our partners and suppliers at the time. We believe these updates are what we would like to receive as well, if we were on the customer side. However, we also realise that it all becomes frustrating when delays extend and compound.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> Smart move I think. If they announced more new watches while folks are still waiting on up-to 3-4 watches, I think we'd see a lot of sour faces.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh yeah absolutely a smart move. New customers will be annoyed because they won't have a chance to order one for a while, but people waiting on watches are probably happy with the renewed focus.

As someone waiting for my Kyoto, I'm not complaining. I'm in no rush to buy another one.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Also, it looks like the Design Brief #7 is back up, with some insight into their 'lightest watch ever': Horologer MING - Design Brief Ch 7: Finding lightness


----------



## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> Also, it looks like the Design Brief #7 is back up, with some insight into their 'lightest watch ever': Horologer MING - Design Brief Ch 7: Finding lightness
> 
> View attachment 16977150


Just amazing. I have been waiting for this one, but i suspect the pricing will be stratospheric.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> New customers will be annoyed because they won't have a chance to order one for a while, but people waiting on watches are probably happy with the renewed focus.


True, but I think there are enough MINGs on the secondary market (and a lot at good prices) to satisfy the new customer market needs for a while until they sort this out.


----------



## paedipod (Feb 11, 2006)

arrived


----------



## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Any news on the new bracelet? It was supposed to be released in Jun? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

jasonmatthew said:


> Any news on the new bracelet? It was supposed to be released in Jun?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No news. When I emailed them over the summer on it they confirmed no microadjustments or on the fly adjustments, so I imagine it'll be similar to the last one.


----------



## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

I was hoping for a brand new design


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

jasonmatthew said:


> I was hoping for a brand new design
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Me too, which is why I emailed with those questions. I can't wear a bracelet without those adjustments.


----------



## zztopops (Aug 4, 2021)

If it's any consolation for dollar based buyers. The delays have been in your favor for the 2nd payment.


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

zztopops said:


> If it's any consolation for dollar based buyers. The delays have been in your favor for the 2nd payment.
> 
> View attachment 16978973


Ha! Thanks. I forgot it was priced in CHF.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cleverbs said:


> New Ming email... All future releases are delayed 5-6 months while they catch up on existing orders. I wonder if that'll push up prices on the secondary market while there's a gap in new watches.


When did you get this email? Have not received it.


----------



## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Received another email today:
——————————————-
MING 37.05: An Update on Pending Deliveries

Dear friends,

By now, you’ve likely received MT’s email about the state of supply chain, our deliveries and what we’re trying to do to get ahead of a constantly changing situation. If you have not had a chance to read through that e-mail, you can also find it here: https://www.ming.watch/journal/on-deliveries-and-delays.

For the 37.05s, we are currently a little over halfway through deliveries and have a steady number of watches being assembled each week. The delay is due to a combination of longer than anticipated assembly times plus some component rework. 

However, assembly and final checks are continuing at a steady pace and we are delivering between 10-25x watches each week. 

As thanks for your patience, we will also be including a small gift, handmade by Studio Koji Satto, with every delayed watch. If your watch is delayed for more than three months from the original delivery estimate, we will include one of the OHWxMING 5th anniversary prints.

Further, until all deliveries are concluded, we will send out an update once a month to let you know if we’re on the current schedule or if there are any other changes. 

I can only close out by echoing MT’s thoughts and thanking you again for your understanding and continued support. 

-Praneeth


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

christianj said:


> When did you get this email? Have not received it.


Yesterday morning. Here's the text:

Dear friends and collectors,

There comes a time, or times, in the life of every company where we face challenges. Some serious challenges whose scope goes beyond our ability to resolve internally, because a watch is a complex thing - hundreds of parts from nearly as many suppliers, and if any one of those suffers a delay or issues - then everything gets pushed back accordingly. In the current state of events, global manufacturing as a whole is facing supply chain constraints and disruptions at every level. The same is true of the watch industry as everything is increasingly interconnected - raw material supplies, logistics, machine parts and tools etc.

We are acutely aware that we have been sending multiple notifications to customers advising of delays in delivery - when we do this, it’s based on the latest and most accurate information we have from our partners and suppliers at the time. We believe these updates are what we would like to receive as well, if we were on the customer side. However, we also realise that it all becomes frustrating when delays extend and compound.

I would like to take this opportunity to reassure all of you waiting for watches that they are being produced and delivered (as you’ve no doubt seen on social media and on fellow collectors’ wrists), but just more slowly than any of us would like. Deliveries will be completed, but will unfortunately take longer than expected and with somewhat elastic timelines as supply chain delays propagate down the line. We need to ask for your forgiveness and patience in this journey and for your trust that we will complete all projects as we have done in the past.

As things stand, the longest delays are with the 20.11 and 20.01 Series 2 due to production of the Mosaic dials; 37.05 is a bit less delayed. To the best of our knowledge, 22.01, 37.07 and 37.04 remain on track at the moment.

*In light of all this, we have decided to postpone all watch launches originally planned over the next 5-6 months until production and deliveries get back on track, and use the intervening period to broaden and further refine our component supply chain prior to release.*

I know you will still be eager for an update on your watch, so Hasnida and the team will be in touch with each of you individually in the coming days.

Thank you again for your understanding. It’s been a crazy journey so far, and with your continued support and patience, this minor bump in the road should soon be past and we can look forward to some of the really exciting things we have in the works.


-MT


----------



## demilo (Jan 5, 2022)

Dare i say this looks better on a nato...


----------



## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

demilo said:


> View attachment 16994639
> 
> Dare i say this looks better on a nato...


Sacrilege! 🤣


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

demilo said:


> View attachment 16994639
> 
> Dare i say this looks better on a nato...


Looks good, but definitely not my favorite strap for the watch.


----------



## demilo (Jan 5, 2022)

Cleverbs said:


> Looks good, but definitely not my favorite strap for the watch.


I think my fave will be the mk2 universal bracelet when it arrives.

Whats your fave?


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

demilo said:


> I think my fave will be the mk2 universal bracelet when it arrives.
> 
> Whats your fave?


The light grey alcantara strap that Ming offers. But really any grey strap (leather, perlon, etc.) works.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

I finally picked up my 17.09 that had been sitting in HK for a while...got a cool night shot


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Spent a few hours shooting the 18.01 the other day, and tried some more colorful lume shots too:


----------



## demilo (Jan 5, 2022)

I'm really hoping the new universal bracelet is steel. The mk1 in titanium feel's too lightweight and cheap regardless of how expensive titanium is. Somehow heavy is reassuring, especially on slender straps like Ming's. Here's hoping the Mk2 bracelet will be steel or similar.
What do you guys think?


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

demilo said:


> I'm really hoping the new universal bracelet is steel. The mk1 in titanium feel's too lightweight and cheap regardless of how expensive titanium is. Somehow heavy is reassuring, especially on slender straps like Ming's. Here's hoping the Mk2 bracelet will be steel or similar.
> What do you guys think?


I'm going to guess it'll be titanium, since the majority of their watches are titanium.


----------



## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

demilo said:


> I'm really hoping the new universal bracelet is steel. The mk1 in titanium feel's too lightweight and cheap regardless of how expensive titanium is. Somehow heavy is reassuring, especially on slender straps like Ming's. Here's hoping the Mk2 bracelet will be steel or similar.
> What do you guys think?


I feel like steel would be too straightforward or standard for them. Also if it’s another universal design, having a steel bracelet would cause the weight to be off balance. Since it sounds like they’ll use another butterfly clasp, it’s not likely users will get a perfect fit, so a balanced weight will be really important. I just hope the bracelet has a unique design to match the rest of the brand’s unique design cues.


----------



## Watchowski (Jun 10, 2012)

Not the greatest pics but fresh delivery... gotta say this thing is stunning in person!


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Watchowski said:


> Not the greatest pics but fresh delivery... gotta say this thing is stunning in person!
> 
> View attachment 17033161
> 
> View attachment 17033162


Love that strap choice.. The whole thing just looks


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

hot damn, that chrono is something.


----------



## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Just received mine and i am loving it! But i only received the watch without the promised free gift. i shall write to them to claim.


----------



## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

This mystic moon just arrived today.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

jasonmatthew said:


> But i only received the watch without the promised free gift. i shall write to them to claim.


Why am I not remembering the "free gift" you mention? I got mine a while ago and nothing free was included.


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

christianj said:


> Why am I not remembering the "free gift" you mention? I got mine a while ago and nothing free was included.











I received this email earlier. My watch was estimated to be delivered late September. But i also not sure if i was qualified for it. No harm asking….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Every Ming post just reminds me that I still have another 2-3 months to wait for my watch. Booooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## NardinNut (Sep 22, 2008)

Man all these deliveries and mine is in limbo! Received the email saying mine was going to be in the September/October batch but nothing since then. Hurry up Ming!


----------



## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

NardinNut said:


> Man all these deliveries and mine is in limbo! Received the email saying mine was going to be in the September/October batch but nothing since then. Hurry up Ming!


Same here! Hoping it’s sooner rather than later! And I already have the Ming 5th anniversary poster. So I hope they give me something else if it gets delayed by more than 3 months!


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

NardinNut said:


> Man all these deliveries and mine is in limbo! Received the email saying mine was going to be in the September/October batch but nothing since then. Hurry up Ming!


They're clearly going out very few at a time. I was also the September/October batch and just got my notice on Wednesday. Hopefully the wait is measured in days or a couple weeks for you guys now, since they've pivoted to fulfilling orders instead of announcing releases.


----------



## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

The lume is perfect. No more the 'M' logo on crown.

the case back display is nice, as some movement parts are in pitch black that giving a bright contrast on those stainless steel color parts shine.


----------



## Madgpol (7 mo ago)

Beautiful. Enjoy


----------



## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

Movement on the moonphases is really nicely done


----------



## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

looking out from Penang hotel


----------



## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

So I've had my 17.09 for awhile and have been enjoying it. But I noticed there is a a small unalignment when the time is between 2 and 6. The thing is, the hour and minute marker is perfectly aligned elsewhere which makes me confused at why this is the case. Is this worth contacting Ming about? Am I going crazy here?

Some images below at the 3 position.



















Here at the 4 position.


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## MrBlahBlah (Oct 8, 2015)

If it were me, I'd just live with this. My guess is this is just "how it is" since the hour hand is geared on the movements GMT function which just isn't as precise as the normal hour wheel would be.


----------



## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Received at last. 
For those who did not receive it with your watch, maybe can write to them and ask if you are entiltled for this gift? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

37.05 finally arrived! 

The new buckle style is quite nice. Now I have to learn how to set a moonphase.


----------



## CyanideAndHappiness (Jun 13, 2017)

MrBlahBlah said:


> If it were me, I'd just live with this. My guess is this is just "how it is" since the hour hand is geared on the movements GMT function which just isn't as precise as the normal hour wheel would be.


So I contacted Ming and they offered to take a closer look at it. But I would have to ship it back to them for them to take a closer look. That means I'll be without it for 8-9 weeks, which is not a big deal for me. I'll probably go ahead and send it back to see if they could adjust it. Might as well use that three year warranty.


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

CyanideAndHappiness said:


> So I contacted Ming and they offered to take a closer look at it. But I would have to ship it back to them for them to take a closer look. That means I'll be without it for 8-9 weeks, which is not a big deal for me. I'll probably go ahead and send it back to see if they could adjust it. Might as well use that three year warranty.


If it bothers you then absolutely go for it. You don't want to live with the "what if" when the warranty period is over and regret never sending it in.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

MING 37.05

The domed outer sapphire crystal and inner sapphire dial make for some extraordinary lume shots. But that outer crystal is a PAIN to photograph.


----------



## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

the lume shot need a good lense and camera. 

I only could try using my normal phone to take some shots.


----------



## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Looking at all these gorgeous pics is making it so difficult waiting for mine! Got the Sept/Oct mail quite a while back and then nothing. Looks like I am getting a free Ming poster along with the watch! 🤣🤣🤷🏻


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> MING 37.05
> 
> The domed outer sapphire crystal and inner sapphire dial make for some extraordinary lume shots. But that outer crystal is a PAIN to photograph.
> 
> ...


Love the lume shots. I have to ask - you mentioned sapphire on the dial, but in most pictures it looks kind of flat. Does it show in person and just not photograph well (or isn't easy to photograph)?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> Love the lume shots. I have to ask - you mentioned sapphire on the dial, but in most pictures it looks kind of flat. Does it show in person and just not photograph well (or isn't easy to photograph)?


Thanks! There is a layer of sapphire over the textured dial surface. You can see it because that's the surface on which the circular disc covering the moonphase is applied. And the interplay between the outer crystal and inner sapphire layer results in those reflections that I've tried to capture in the two lume shots...


----------



## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> Thanks! There is a layer of sapphire over the textured dial surface. You can see it because that's the surface on which the circular disc covering the moonphase is applied. And the interplay between the outer crystal and inner sapphire layer results in those reflections that I've tried to capture in the two lume shots...
> 
> View attachment 17068885


Ah, that's clear now. Thanks!

22.01s should be shipping in the coming months...


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## valuewatchguy (Jun 16, 2012)

Is anyone successfully getting orders cancelled or transferred to other buyers? Asking regarding the 22.01.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

valuewatchguy said:


> Is anyone successfully getting orders cancelled or transferred to other buyers? Asking regarding the 22.01.


I thought the terms were cancellation means you don't get a refund on what you've paid, however you can return a watch after you receive it for a full refund minus shipping costs.
You may be best off just getting the watch and selling it second hand (likely for a profit) or returning it and eating shipping costs.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)




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## edotkim (Jan 1, 2017)

Man, @singularityseven, that's a killer pair!

I wouldn't have thought a canvas strap would work well with the diver, but I love that combo.

Would you mind sharing info on the beautiful strap you have on the moon phase?

Thanks,
Ernest


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

edotkim said:


> Man, @singularityseven, that's a killer pair!
> 
> I wouldn't have thought a canvas strap would work well with the diver, but I love that combo.
> 
> ...


Thanks! The strap on the Moonphase is from @Delugs - Brown Waxy Signature (Curved) Strap


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

Liking it on a brown strap, also from @Delugs


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## Elrodcod (1 mo ago)




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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

those bezel versions remind me of tron. i like them better.

has anyone bailed on the watch because of the case and lug shape. those thick flares seem so dated.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

pIonEerOFtHeNiLe said:


> has anyone bailed on the watch because of the case and lug shape. those thick flares seem so dated.


I buy them because of those lugs. I actually preferred when they were more flared out (18 series, 19 series) compared to the newer watches.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

pIonEerOFtHeNiLe said:


> those bezel versions remind me of tron. i like them better.
> 
> has anyone bailed on the watch because of the case and lug shape. those thick flares seem so dated.


I really like the overall Ming aesthetic. Some watches I prefer over others for various reasons, but the lugs and case design is part of what I like.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

pIonEerOFtHeNiLe said:


> those bezel versions remind me of tron. i like them better.
> 
> has anyone bailed on the watch because of the case and lug shape. those thick flares seem so dated.


Nope, the flared lugs work really well visually with the curved straps. I’m am fan of them specifically.


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## timeisofthessence (Oct 23, 2009)

WizardofWatch said:


> Looking at all these gorgeous pics is making it so difficult waiting for mine! Got the Sept/Oct mail quite a while back and then nothing. Looks like I am getting a free Ming poster along with the watch! 🤣🤣🤷🏻


Yea, I'm in the same boat. I've actually gone back to their site a few times to check out the poster to enjoy as a silver lining at least.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

Which MING is your favorite?


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Cocas said:


> View attachment 17085235
> 
> View attachment 17085234
> 
> ...


Of the ones you have, the 17.09 on the far right.


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## Cocas (Jul 7, 2015)

Cleverbs said:


> Of the ones you have, the 17.09 on the far right.



yes, 17.09 is my only Stainless Steel case MING. its case shine silvery like those luxurious watch.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

​


​




​


​

​
Order the Travel Case here​
Dear friends,

Earlier this year, we created the carbon fibre watch storage cases as part of our 5th anniversary celebrations. They were intended to be special one-off for the giveaway only, but over the last few months, we have received a lot of enquiries and have decided to make a different version available for purchase: the MING Travel Case, in anthracite maple. It is in stock and ready to ship now.

The travel case was designed and developed exclusively for MING. It can hold seven watches and straps or other accessories across two levels. The slim design means the case can fit in most backpacks and carry-on luggage. It opens flat, allowing for the top half to be used as a display or work area.

The core of the case is composite Okoumé reinforced with fibreglass for lightness and rigidity. It is then clad in an anthracite maple veneer shared with the Japanese-style puzzle boxes we use for the MING 20.01 Series 2 and other special projects. The interior is precision cut high density foam, wrapped in royal blue microfibre suede. Each watch slot will fit a watch1 up to 43mm in diameter.

The MING Travel Case makes an holiday ideal gift for collectors and we have 50 units in stock and ready to ship this week, with additional stock arriving in the new year. It is priced at CHF 950 including insured shipping2 via DHL Express and available to order at www.ming.watch or via the button above.

Thank you!

-Team MING

1The travel case is not intended to store watches on a bracelet. It is designed specifically for watches fitted on a strap (i.e. can lay completely flat).

2Import duties and taxes excluded; these vary by destination country and are the responsibility of the buyer. For more details see our terms & conditions.​​

​

​


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

WizardofWatch said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a pricey watch box! Folks who lucked out in the 5th anniversary giveaway and got this should be pretty stoked!


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

WizardofWatch said:


> That's a pricey watch box! Folks who lucked out in the 5th anniversary giveaway and got this should be pretty stoked!


My thoughts exactly.


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

WizardofWatch said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No for me but I'm sure the 50 have already been sold. I feel like I'm cheap when it comes to watch accessories and don't feel that the storage should be x% of the value it's holding.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Icelatte said:


> No for me but I'm sure the 50 have already been sold. I feel like I'm cheap when it comes to watch accessories and don't feel that the storage should be x% of the value it's holding.


I agree. I like my watch storage accessories to be of good quality, but not crazy expensive. 
As for selling out the 50, the ming boxes are still available. I just assume they will ship out later, compared to immediately for the first 50. So not a limited run in any way. Might even be a part of their regular offering.


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

On this topic, what do you guys use for watch boxes? Anything reasonably priced (under $500?) that you would recommend?


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Cleverbs said:


> On this topic, what do you guys use for watch boxes? Anything reasonably priced (under $500?) that you would recommend?


I use wolf windsor 15 watch boxes. Have 3 of them as of now and am happy with them. Picture below (from Wolf’s website)
Although, I am looking out for something that can hold more watches and still be high quality at a decent price!
How about you?


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

WizardofWatch said:


> I use wolf windsor 15 watch boxes. Have 3 of them as of now and am happy with them. Picture below (from Wolf’s website)
> Although, I am looking out for something that can hold more watches and still be high quality at a decent price!
> How about you?
> View attachment 17090289


I currently have a cheap box I got on Amazon (box) for $65 and the Ming will be my 10th watch so it's probably time to upgrade. I was considering the Windsor 15 mostly because any of the 10 or 12 with drawer boxes seem to have crappy drawers.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

Has anyone seen Ming Thein’s recent interview w/ Mark Cho (from the Armoury) on YouTube? I always find Ming interviews pretty interesting and he talks about some brand history and discusses some things into the future.


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Ming In house movement is coming! 
And the new bracelet doesn’t fit the older model? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

jasonmatthew said:


> Ming In house movement is coming!
> And the new bracelet doesn’t fit the older model?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"in house movement" just sounds like "way more expensive" to me. I highly doubt they'll go the Oris (120+ hour power reserve) or Horage (<$10k tourbillon) route with reasonably priced in house movements with awesome features.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> Has anyone seen Ming Thein’s recent interview w/ Mark Cho (from the Armoury) on YouTube? I always find Ming interviews pretty interesting and he talks about some brand history and discusses some things into the future.


Thanks for the heads up. I had missed that!


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## En_Nissen (Oct 10, 2018)

jasonmatthew said:


> Ming In house movement is coming!
> And the new bracelet doesn’t fit the older model?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"in-house" as a term for movement is completely unregulated and corrupted. 
No one knows what it entails besides the movement is proprietary to some extent. 

It eludes to every part, design etc. Being made and developed by watchmakers and engineers hired directly by the brand.
This is very rarely the case, even for many of the large brands.

I hope Ming takes it upon themselves to bring someone else than just the movement being "in house", and actually makes a movement that's a (noticeable) improvement over a base or modified ebauche movement.


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

A few things here… first, I’d suspect any complicated in house movement would first be found in an extremely limited batch release in the umbrella of SPC watches, so any issues would be limited to those high end/dollar customers. Second, I think Ming quoted production runs of between 5-7k watches annually, did anyone else hear something like that? For perspective that’s pretty awesome. At 5 years old, this brand has achieved a ton, especially considering almost half that time was during a pandemic that strained supply chains for a ton of industries.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> Second, I think Ming quoted production runs of between 5-7k watches annually, did anyone else hear something like that?


Yeah I heard that too. Until then I assumed MING had sold about 7-8k watches in total since their conception. I suppose there were a lot more 17.09s than I suspected!


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

Kevkev1 said:


> A few things here… first, I’d suspect any complicated in house movement would first be found in an extremely limited batch release in the umbrella of SPC watches, so any issues would be limited to those high end/dollar customers. Second, I think Ming quoted production runs of between 5-7k watches annually, did anyone else hear something like that? For perspective that’s pretty awesome. At 5 years old, this brand has achieved a ton, especially considering almost half that time was during a pandemic that strained supply chains for a ton of industries.


It's amazing how quickly they established credibility and grew to what they are. I think having a known name behind it plus a unique aesthetic has really helped (and quality watches, but lots of brands with good watches still fail to catch on at the same level). Making high end watches while maintaining a constant flow of releases at more affordable levels is awesome for us.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Here is some footage of the 37.05 Moonphase:


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I had missed that!


Great interview - makes me antsy for next year!


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

The 22.01 Kyoto should be shipping soon (end Dec/early Jan was initial round of shipments) - has anyone heard anything yet? I'm in the second round (late Jan/early Feb).


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> The 22.01 Kyoto should be shipping soon (end Dec/early Jan was initial round of shipments) - has anyone heard anything yet? I'm in the second round (late Jan/early Feb).


I'm in the late-Dec/early-January batch and haven't heard anything from them yet. I expect it'll be more of an early January thing at this point.

On that note, someone posted some "real life" pics of a 22.01 prototype, among other MINGS:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CmWP9ZhrI_y/











__
http://instagr.am/p/CmV7s55SUtZ/


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> I'm in the late-Dec/early-January batch and haven't heard anything from them yet. I expect it'll be more of an early January thing at this point.
> 
> On that note, someone posted some "real life" pics of a 22.01 prototype, among other MINGS:
> 
> ...


I guess the month delay is what I get for hesitating in my cart as I debated Kyoto vs Gilt, but those real life pics confirm I made the right decision... that gold on the Gilt dial is definitely not my favorite. Thanks for sharing those pics though, I hadn't seen them before.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Some dial inversion with the 37.05:


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

New email from ming. I’ve screenshotted the looking forward to 2023 section…..NEW WORLDTIMER


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## Kevkev1 (Aug 22, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Some dial inversion with the 37.05:
> 
> View attachment 17105455
> 
> ...


So how has the ownership experience been for this piece? Thoughts on Ming’s first ever moon phase?


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

yellowfury said:


> New email from ming. I’ve screenshotted the looking forward to 2023 section…..NEW WORLDTIMER
> 
> View attachment 17113009


This reads to me "we're releasing a lot of expensive watches and the sub-$2k days are probably in the past." Which is fine, but hopefully they have plenty of offerings sub-$5k each year.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Kevkev1 said:


> So how has the ownership experience been for this piece? Thoughts on Ming’s first ever moon phase?


I'll try to summarize my thoughts in a mini-review below:

1. When this watch was first released, I felt like the design seemed a bit unbalanced and bottom heavy (because of the moon-phase and date window) and the square date window felt a little too predictable for a MING piece. Getting the watch in hand and wearing it for a month has changed how I feel about it, and I'm starting to look how quirky the design is, specially when you compare it to a more straightforward design like the 17.09 or the 27.01.









2. The curved crystal is a pain to photograph and picks up a lot of reflections, but it also adds some terrific viewing angles. The curved top, case and curved back make for a very cohesive case design, and I think it is one of the better case designs. Unfortunately the details are very subtle and the curved crystal and case-back are hard to capture on camera. But the overall silhouette is a beautiful oval shape with short curved lugs.









3. The case tends to wear larger than a 17 or 27 series MING because of the lack of a bezel, and I love it. My personal preferences are moving towards larger watches, so this is perfect. No bezel also means far fewer visible scratches, which is a win for me.









4. The dial texture and luminous ring are both terrific, and I love the fact that the sapphire layer covers the date window. I've seen other sapphire dial watches that end up with very deep date windows because of a thick sapphire layer or multiple layers. The blue moon "mask" is a few shades of blue lighter than I would've liked (and maybe some kind of texture would've benefited it too), but this flatness tends to be exaggerated in photographs.









5. The new handset is excellent and easy to read. I know a few people had concerns with the 17.09 regarding overlapping design styles between hour and minute hands, but there is a very clear distinction between hands here. The lume on the hands and moon disc is a smidge weaker than the HyCeram luminous dial ring, but I suppose that is to be expected given that the HyCeram material is far more dense and potent. You'll see a similar (and slightly more exaggerated) difference in the Tudor Pelagos 39 too.









6. The movement looks good and has been working well. It is easy to wind (in part thanks to the large crown) and operates very smoothly.









So overall I'd say this watch exceeded my expectations. I think a big reason why I like this watch is the case (the luminous ring and hands are awesome too), so I feel like those that ordered the 37.07 Mosaic got a terrific deal on that watch (CHF 1750 less than this one!).


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> I'll try to summarize my thoughts in a mini-review below:
> 
> 1. When this watch was first released, I felt like the design seemed a bit unbalanced and bottom heavy (because of the moon-phase and date window) and the square date window felt a little too predictable for a MING piece. Getting the watch in hand and wearing it for a month has changed how I feel about it, and I'm starting to look how quirky the design is, specially when you compare it to a more straightforward design like the 17.09 or the 27.01.
> View attachment 17114564
> ...


That’s a sharp bracelet! Is that the Ming universal bracelet?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

WizardofWatch said:


> That’s a sharp bracelet! Is that the Ming universal bracelet?


Yes sir! I can't wait to see what the new bracelet looks like though.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> Yes sir! I can't wait to see what the new bracelet looks like though.


Nice! I am also waiting for their updated universal bracelet!


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## RaptorHF (5 mo ago)

Have they given any indication of when the updated bracelet would likely hit the market?


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Its Ming monday, happy boxing day! Which look do you prefer? I like the bracelet combo most…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

Me too waiting for their new bracelets. Wasnt it supposed to hit the store late September 2022?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RaptorHF said:


> Have they given any indication of when the updated bracelet would likely hit the market?


I think the best guess at the moment is "sometime 2023". I hope sooner rather than later!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Here's some lume footage of the 37.05 Moonphase:


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> I think the best guess at the moment is "sometime 2023". I hope sooner rather than later!


Probably a safe bet, especially with them focusing on getting out the 22.01s and 37.07 before they worry about new releases.


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## Icelatte (Aug 24, 2016)

I think the 37 series will look great with any strap. I think the current universal bracelet is too thin to match the case robustness. Maybe the new one will be better but I think the old bracelet is a better match on my 27.02.




jasonmatthew said:


> View attachment 17116626
> 
> View attachment 17116627
> 
> ...


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## TheSeikoGuy (Jul 13, 2020)

Trying a new strap from Delugs on this one


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## dgoldwatch (Aug 29, 2020)

TheSeikoGuy said:


> Trying a new strap from Delugs on this one
> View attachment 17118591


I like the orange. Link?


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## jasonmatthew (May 31, 2013)

dgoldwatch said:


> I like the orange. Link?


I think this is from delugs….









Handcrafted Watch Straps | Delugs


Premium leather watch straps handcrafted with only the best quality full grain leather. Shop ready stock and custom made watch straps. Fast worldwide shipping.




delugs.com






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Love the attention to detail on this one!


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

First round of 22.01s should be shipping now right? Or were those delayed? I'm in the second (of three) groups but haven't heard anything.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> First round of 22.01s should be shipping now right? Or were those delayed? I'm in the second (of three) groups but haven't heard anything.


I'm in the first group (I think), and they didn't ship it out yet. But I also think they've been closed until the 9th (tomorrow).


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## Cleverbs (Jan 10, 2022)

singularityseven said:


> I'm in the first group (I think), and they didn't ship it out yet. But I also think they've been closed until the 9th (tomorrow).


I'm anxious to see some pics... (well really to get it in hand, but pics would be nice too)

Makes sense though. Here's hoping they start shipping soon.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Cleverbs said:


> I'm anxious to see some pics... (well really to get it in hand, but pics would be nice too)
> 
> Makes sense though. Here's hoping they start shipping soon.


I'm excited to get this in hand too. I'll be sure to post here if I get any updates.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

A lume shot!


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