# What is the current watch of the U.S. Army



## Alexcm123 (Mar 27, 2017)

Hello, I'm looking to find any info on what is the current issue watch if the army.

Thanks


----------



## longstride (Jan 13, 2011)

I don't think there is one. The last official issued watch spec from the US Govt. was sometime in the 1980's, since that time watches are bought at the soldier's discretion.

Many servicemen buy G-shock's or similar digital multi function watches. Officially - Marathon do supply watches to the US Military but it is on a limited contract basis.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f7/these-real-life-military-watches-4148946.html

The above link will give some insights from active and former servicemen regarding the watches they used during their service careers and below is a report on a recent aquisition of watches by the British MOD for the Royal Navy Special Boat Squadron.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f7/cwc-sbs-divers-issue-watch-reviewed-bottomtimer-com-3799146.html


----------



## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

longstride said:


> I don't think there is one. The last official issued watch spec from the US Govt. was sometime in the 1980's, since that time watches are bought at the soldier's discretion.
> 
> Many servicemen buy G-shock's or similar digital multi function watches. Officially - Marathon do supply watches to the US Military but it is on a limited contract basis.
> 
> ...


*Regarding US military watches, none of that is true*.
The last Mil Spec issued by the US Gov't on watches was MIL-PRF-46374G dated 12 November 1999 and *Notice 3 re-validated it on 30 October 2017*. The last QPL (Qualified Products List) I'm aware of was QPL-46374-17 dated 8 December 2017. MIL-PRF-46374G was a major rewrite compared to the revision "F" is superseded. It specifies three types with four classes. Classes 1-3 are electronic (aka quartz) and class 4 is mechanical. Classes 1-3 specify details about the battery for the electrical watches: whether it's installed, included but not installed, or not included (or installed) with the watch. The three types specify expected minimum service life before disposal (not battery life) and some other criteria going from Type I being the most disposable with least durability and shortest service life to Type III with greatest robustness and durability and longest minimum service life. Type III also requires a timing ring or bezel, but it's not considered a dive watch and it's most assuredly not a chronograph. It's intended for use by bomber pilots and navigators. Of all those combinations of types and classes, the following three watches are available for procurement. The sole supplier is Marathon:

Type I: Classes 1 & 2 (difference is battery packaging)
https://marathonwatch.com/collections/watch/products/general-purpose-quartz-with-tritium-gpq
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2581/7358/files/WW1940041.pdf

Types I & II: Class 4 (two different NSNs; same watch)
https://marathonwatch.com/collections/watch/products/general-purpose-mechanical-with-tritium-gpm?variant=7524171776042
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2581/7358/files/WW194003-Instructions.pdf

Type III: Class 1
https://marathonwatch.com/collections/watch/products/pilots-navigator-with-tritium
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2581/7358/files/WW194001.pdf

All this said . . .
The response above gives the impression that the US Armed Forces issued watches to everyone into the 1980's. There's a common misconception and assumption, just because the watches are specified, procured and in the DLA supply system for the military services that they're handed out to US Armed Forces personnel like Halloween candy. The US Armed Forces issuing a watch to any service member of any rank is exceptionally rare. In 21 years of service I know of no watch ever being issued to any soldier. As a commander I had a half-dozen or so on hand and they were kept locked up in a high security safe. Issuing watches to young soldiers would have them disappearing as fast as they were issued, showing up in the nearest pawn shop, with the sad tale of having been mugged late Friday or Saturday night by multiple thugs jumping out of the dark side street (or alleyway) near the downtown strip club and stealing the watch. Of course there's no local police or crime report because there's no witnesses and it was too dark to give any decent description of the assailants. Young slick sleeves think they're so original with these kinds of stories while it's pegging the meter on my BS detector because it's the umpteenth time I've heard the same basic sad sack tale of woe. See the link that was posted in the other response to another thread. The US Armed Forces are a BYOW organization (Bring Your Own Watch) and have been since at least the Vietnam War. A lot of watches got into the hands of GIs because the supply system in Vietnam leaked like a sieve with poor accountability, but they weren't universal issue.

Every watch I used was my own. During Desert Shield and Desert Storm the supply system leaked some watches out into the hands of soldiers who had connections in the supply system. They weren't general issue. Both the Stocker&Yale (SandY) and a Marathon (not the current one) were in the system at that time. The Hamilton had been dropped by then. Anyone who wanted a Marathon could buy one from Marathon or a Marathon dealer and IIRC the same went for the Stocker&Yale. I bought my own Hamilton MIL-W-46374B about 1982 from the US Army's Clothing Sales Store. Kept the receipt stored in a safe place to prove it was mine. Going back into the Korean War and WWII, they were issued on an as needed basis, primarily to pilots, navigators, bombardiers and ground leaders (e.g. officers) who needed a watch. Anyone who wants one of the three above can certainly buy one from Marathon, Amazon or any number of other etailers online. You're not getting a watch that GIs are wearing though.

For the price, you're not getting the best value in a timepiece either. All the cases are plastic, they're only rated to 50m water resistance and there are no springbars. They're permanently fixed pins (springbars break easier) through which you weave a single layer nylon strap with subdued pin buckle. Nope, sorry boys, they don't come on a TactiCool NATO or Zulu, and you cannot put a two-piece strap on it which would require springbars. It will probably survive that torrential downpour and a one-rope river crossing or two. Don't wear it in the shower, go swimming with it or wear it on that rafting trip down the cat 4 and 5 rapids. If you fall into a pool and get out fairly quickly, you should be OK. They're expensive for what you get. The quartz have a 3j ETA F06 high torque straight out of ETA's Classic entry level Trendline with composite construction, most likely the F06.105 high torque without date now. The mechanical used to have an ETA 2801-2 but that was dumped long ago. They now have a SII NH38A automatic with hand wind and hacking but no date. It's a 24j 21.6 kbph made by Seiko. You could get a nifty Seiko 5 with substantially better materials around it for significantly less with the exact same movement inside (4R35B). Did I mention the Type I and II are 34mm diameter with 16mm lug width? Were you expecting a big, beefy manly man's watch dripping testosterone from the back and around the bezel? Sorry. The Type III (quartz only) are 41mm with 20mm lug width due to the timing bezel.

Currently the Casio G-Shock is one of the most popular, along with some Timex Iron-Man and Suunto. The G-Shock is nearly indestructible and it's cheap enough that one isn't going to cry too long if it's lost, stolen or destroyed. Same applies to the Timex. Of course, there are always those with more money than brains and they buy expensive watches which proceed to get thrashed to death unless they're a REMF flying or driving a desk, now called a FOBbit over in the sand box.


----------



## Ftumch (Sep 18, 2017)

jlind said:


> Did I mention the Type I and II are 34mm diameter with 16mm lug width?


So pretty much the width of the movement, no spacer.

That makes sense for action watches. My 48mm Citizen is bashed up because it's chunky and always gets caught on stuff.


----------



## Rocket1991 (Mar 15, 2018)

I work with the guy who served in Germany in early 80-s. He vaguely remembering some plastic piece of ... he got for a watch but that was Canadian army and he got plastic Timex (not 100% sure, he forgot what exactly it was but clearly remembers POS quality). I don't think there is an army supplying watches in general to GI populace of any kind. Back in some old times when some specific groups of serviceman needed watch to perform and watches were not so common, then, it could be a case. But i am talking about some WW2 or so. But not in a same way you get uniform. 
Canadians for sure not getting any now.


----------



## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

Ftumch said:


> So pretty much the width of the movement, no spacer.
> 
> That makes sense for action watches. My 48mm Citizen is bashed up because it's chunky and always gets caught on stuff.


You're correct. If there is a movement spacer which wouldn't be too surprising, it will be quite narrow. Deduced the current Marathon quartz movement (Types I, II & III, Classes 1-3) as the ETA F06.105 variant (of the F06) which has the high torque without date. It's 11½‴ (lignes) with a 26.2mm casing diameter. The 12‴ SII (Seiko) NH38A without date used in current Marathon mechanical (Type I & II, Class 4) has a 29.36mm casing diameter (has dial spacer). Not much left for case walls. Didn't look at the drawings for them that closely, but would surmise the cases for the TYPE I & II quartz and mechanical are different on the inside making them non-interchangeable. The movements have completely different dimensions.


----------



## MissileExpert (Mar 18, 2018)

I served in the Army in the late 70's thru the 90's. When I was stationed in Germany (Ramstein Air Base), the nearest depot was Kaiserslautern, and they stocked mil-spec watches. Around 1980, one of the soldiers who worked at the depot warehouse got sick and they couldn't figure out why. He had radiation poisoning. Finally, they took a radiacmeter to the warehouse and they soon discovered he had over 500 mil-spec watches stored in the same bin. The documentation said to stock no more than 25 in any one location. Radium lume! I worked in missile maintenance, and we never required a military-issued watch. Nowadays, with GPS, everyone has access to VERY accurate time. G-shocks rule the roost. Tough as nails, water resistant, and cheap.


----------



## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

Rocket1991 said:


> I work with the guy who served in Germany in early 80-s. He vaguely remembering some plastic piece of ... he got for a watch but that was Canadian army and he got plastic Timex (not 100% sure, he forgot what exactly it was but clearly remembers POS quality). I don't think there is an army supplying watches in general to GI populace of any kind. Back in some old times when some specific groups of serviceman needed watch to perform and watches were not so common, then, it could be a case. But i am talking about some WW2 or so. But not in a same way you get uniform.
> Canadians for sure not getting any now.


Within the US logistics system the plastic Timex was around from 1975 through 1983 and a little beyond until stocks were exhausted or purged. It was considered a POS joke. Your Canadian acquaintance is probably right about the brand from that era. I've little doubt the Canadians simply bought the same mil watches the US did from Timex. Why create your own specs for a minor, small value procurement when someone else already has. Although they weren't very expensive, the stainless steel 7j Hamilton with a Durowe movement for ground-pounders was a decent workhorse and quite robust to being thrashed, albeit non-hacking. The hacking 17j Hamilton for aviators with ETA 2750 inside the same stainless case cost more and was excellent. All of them were rated to 50m water resistance. They weren't made for continuous immersion.

Under the original 1964 MIL-W-46374, Belforte made the watches for the US Gov't with plastic cases. Benrus distributed them for Belforte. From 1968 onward, Benrus and Westclox made the plastic watches during the remainder of the Vietnam War under the MIL-W revision "A" that allowed a corrosion resistant metal case (Hamilton made these), changed to stainless steel by a 1973 addendum. It took a while for these to find their way into the logisitcs system, appearing in the last half of the war. The plastic Timex was procured with the "B" revision to the MIL-W spec published in 1975. Hamilton continued making the metal cased. All these were displaced by the plastic cased Stocker & Yale with revision "C" of the MIL-W spec in 1983 (SandY = Stocker and Yale). Marathon appeared with revision "D" in 1988. The MIL-W is now a MIL-PRF up to revision "G". There was overlap between the MIL-W revisions in terms of what was available in the military logistics system due to a revision being published every few years from Revision "C" through revision "F" in 1991. It was another eight years until revision "G" in 1999 with Marathon the sole survivor. It's the current one with a re-validation being published continuing it every few years.

During WII and the Korean War watches were issued to aviators and some leaders as needed, plus "divers" for Navy frogman and UDT use (the "canteen" watch during WWII). For all the revisions in watch specs starting with MIL-W-46374 in 1964, by Vietnam there was no general need for any watch issue. Those that needed one had their own. Among the iconic favorites for ground-pounders from the mid-1960's to early 1970's were the O&W M-65 & M-67, several Seiko 6217 and especially the 6105 divers (6217 and 6105 refers to movement). Readily available in the PX these were extremely reliable, very robust and more water resistant than most anything else available, including the US Gov't watches. Aviators favored the Glycine Airman SST and O&W Early Bird which were similar in concept and appearance. Obviously there were many others used. These are the ones that emerged as iconic of the Vietnam era. Government watches ended up in the hands of some GIs as the logistics system leaked like a sieve with, at best, mediocre accountability, but mostly during the last several years of the war after the metal cased Hamilton appeared and word of them got around. The same kind of leakage happened on a much smaller scale during Desert Storm. Both Stocker & Yale and Marathon sold their military watches to the general public directly and through retailers.


----------



## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

MissileExpert said:


> I served in the Army in the late 70's thru the 90's. When I was stationed in Germany (Ramstein Air Base), the nearest depot was Kaiserslautern, and they stocked mil-spec watches. Around 1980, one of the soldiers who worked at the depot warehouse got sick and they couldn't figure out why. He had radiation poisoning. Finally, they took a radiacmeter to the warehouse and they soon discovered he had over 500 mil-spec watches stored in the same bin. The documentation said to stock no more than 25 in any one location. Radium lume! I worked in missile maintenance, and we never required a military-issued watch. Nowadays, with GPS, everyone has access to VERY accurate time. G-shocks rule the roost. Tough as nails, water resistant, and cheap.


Tritium, not radium. Radium had disappeared from use by the mid-1960's. The MIL-W up through rev B watches were tritium lumed, but it wasn't in vials, it was painted or printed on. I have one from 1982 and the lume is long since dead (H3 half-life is ~12 years). All the MIL-W rev B watches (1975-1983) have H3 plus the radiation trefoil on the dial; that rev added considerable verbage regarding the use, storage and disposal of the radioactive tritium, in addition to requiring the markings on the dial and back. Glass vial H3 watches weren't seen until the early to mid-1980's with the Stocker & Yale under the MIL-W rev C. The glass in the vials reduces the external radiation level which is why they were created. The back story I read behind the vial creation doesn't give the location, but reads just like what you describe occurred in Kaiserslautern.

The real issue with radium is not that it's significantly more radioactive, it's the exceptionally long 1600 year half-life, about 150 times longer than tritium, making disposal of instruments and other devices using it for lume more hazardous, especially if it's ingested by mouth or inhalation in any quantity by those disposing of the equipment (ingested, it displaces the body's calcium). Watches from the 1920's to the 1960's with radium are still radioactive. It's the luminescent phosphor that's dead. The switch to tritium in the mid-1960's was made in large measure because of its comparatively short ~12 year half-life.

Edit:
Ingested tritium doesn't have nearly the cumulative effect radium does. Nearly all tritium ingested is excreted in urine (as part of the body's water) in a short time. OTOH, ingested radium with its massive half-life readily displaces the body's calcium in bones and teeth for a very long time. The hazard of ingested tritium versus radium is substantially less. This is much different from external exposure which ceases as soon as the individual is removed from the external source. The damage from that depends on magnitude of radiation and length of exposure. There are cumulative effects from repeated external exposure increasing cancer risk, but it's much different from ingested radioactive materials that are retained over a long time which is tantamount to continuous very direct exposure 24/7 as long as it is radioactive - effectively many lifetimes for radium. If you were around any decon training the first thing one learns is preventing any fallout from being ingested (by mouth or inhalation). Decontaminating food supplies from radioactive fallout is crucial.


----------

