# Pam 183 vs Pam 380???



## Watch_Geek

Cosmetically the Pam 380 is just the 183 but with the Panerai Logo at 6 o'clock. The case size etc identical other than that minor change.

Internally the Pam 183 houses an OP XI cal whilst the Pam 380 houses an OP II, however the technical specs for these two calibres are the exact same, right down to the alterations per hour (21,600 :-d). Surely there is some subtle difference that they chose not to add to the catalogue for whatever reason. I just want to know what the difference is when its going to cost me £1,100.

Also is it worth opting for the Pam 337 to get the inhouse movement? Doe anybody know aything about OP in house movemnent?

Any help is much appreciated.


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## esm

183 has sandwich dial while the 380 has painted/sausage dial. 

I'm pretty sure the 380 is in the latest catalogue (need to check to confirm though)


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## SomethingReallyCool

esm said:


> 183 has sandwich dial while the 380 has painted/sausage dial.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the 380 is in the latest catalogue (need to check to confirm though)


The 380 is in the 2011 catalogue...


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## Watch_Geek

Hmm I may be inclined to say that since the sandwich dial is a big thing to a panerai it may be worth some price difference but £1100 is a lot to have a sandwitch dial instead of painted. Is that the only aditional difference?


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## esm

SomethingReallyCool said:


> The 380 is in the 2011 catalogue...


Thanks. Save me from pulling the catalogue out of the book shelf.



Watch_Geek said:


> Hmm I may be inclined to say that since the sandwich dial is a big thing to a panerai it may be worth some price difference but £1100 is a lot to have a sandwitch dial instead of painted. Is that the only aditional difference?


Lack of display case back springs to mind.


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## Watch_Geek

Where do you get this information from? the catalogue is a bit useless with regards to this stuff. I may try and get a look at the master catalogue next time im looking.

As a second question is it worth going for an OP in house movement?
They have won awards, I accept this, however to get in house on a Rad there's only the 337 or 338 to choose from (both with gold trim hands, which I dont like). Then, ofcourse, as they are £4,400 and £4,800 respectively you have to pay another £900- £1100 again for an in house movement. 

I'm more interested in sticking with the 183 from whats been said, it was my original want untill I saw the 380 and thought "why spend 3,7 on the 183 when the 380 is the same for 2,6". (clearly it isn't). So my next question is do I go up in price to an OP in house?


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## handwound

Watch_Geek said:


> ...I'm more interested in sticking with the 183 from whats been said, it was my original want untill I saw the 380 and thought "why spend 3,7 on the 183 when the 380 is the same for 2,6". (clearly it isn't). So my next question is do I go up in price to an OP in house?


The difference between the 183 and the 380 is exactly like the difference between the 111 and the 005. It depends on whether you prefer a sandwich dial or painted dial, logo or no logo and if a display back is important to you. There are no real functional/quality differences between the two - it's all aesthetic.

Honestly, I'm not too arsed over having an in-house movement, unless it's offering some complication or feature that I have to have. The 337 has silver hands, BTW - but it is 42mm, not 45mm. The 42mm Rads will wear smaller than any other Panerai, if that's a concern.


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## Watch_Geek

handwound said:


> The difference between the 183 and the 380 is exactly like the difference between the 111 and the 005. It depends on whether you prefer a sandwich dial or painted dial, logo or no logo and if a display back is important to you. There are no real functional/quality differences between the two - it's all aesthetic.
> 
> Honestly, I'm not too arsed over having an in-house movement, unless it's offering some complication or feature that I have to have. The 337 has silver hands, BTW - but it is 42mm, not 45mm. The 42mm Rads will wear smaller than any other Panerai, if that's a concern.


The fact that the 337 has silver hands did put me off tbf I like the black trim to the 183 and 380 hands.I also buy watches on a very cosmetic basis however having a nice Pam movement plays a role as this'll be my first Pam. I currently wear a 42mm watch everyday and find its okay on my wrists but also having tried the 183 in the AD (which fit like a glove) either should be fine I would think size wise, though I do accept that I have not tried a 42mm Rad yet.


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## esm

Watch_Geek said:


> Where do you get this information from? the catalogue is a bit useless with regards to this stuff. I may try and get a look at the master catalogue next time im looking.


google is a wonderful place to get info from.

personally, i wouldnt bother with an in-house movement. my fave Panerai are 000 and 210 historic editions... unless a 382 pops up for me at retail. (have already semi-discounted the 372 from the current line up...)


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## Watch_Geek

So why would you not bother with an inhouse movement? I don't know an aweful lot about their in house so I need to learn if they are worth the extra or not and why?


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## meliaser

Watch_Geek said:


> So why would you not bother with an inhouse movement? I don't know an aweful lot about their in house so I need to learn if they are worth the extra or not and why?


Many collectors like to have an in-house movement so that they can say their watch is executed entirely by Panerai. It is a source of pride for a watch company to make its own movements, and as a result, it is a source of pride for the person who owns that watch to say it has been hand-crafted by the company itself and not simply outsourced from a mass-producer of movements. As expected, it is expensive to produce an in-house movement as opposed to outsourcing a movement, so you take a hit with price. I cannot speak to whether Panerai's in-house movements are technically as reliable or accurate as its outsourced movements, but there is something to be said about a movement that has been inserted into countless timepieces from countless watch manufacturers such as the 000's, 112's, and 210's ETA 6497, the 005's, 111's, and 183's ETA 6497/2.


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## meliaser

meliaser said:


> I cannot speak to whether Panerai's in-house movements are technically as reliable or accurate as its outsourced movements, but there is something to be said about a movement that has been inserted into countless timepieces from countless watch manufacturers such as the 000's, 112's, and 210's ETA 6497, the 005's, 111's, and 183's ETA 6497/2.


AKA, it must be reliable and accurate.


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## Watch_Geek

I understand that the ETA movement is extremely reliable and successfull, having supplied many top watch brands and made swatch .... loads of money in the last few decades however that's not to say that there's no value in going for a Pam inhouse. Id like to see if anybody has any strong oppinions on the Pam inhouse. Ofcourse aswell since the ETA adaptations in the Panerai range are all COSC certified (I think all, but certainly almost all) they are robust and reliable. I suppose I'm asking if the Pam inhouse is of better quality than these ETA's?


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## handwound

Watch_Geek said:


> I understand that the ETA movement is extremely reliable and successfull, having supplied many top watch brands and made swatch .... loads of money in the last few decades however that's not to say that there's no value in going for a Pam inhouse. Id like to see if anybody has any strong oppinions on the Pam inhouse. Ofcourse aswell since the ETA adaptations in the Panerai range are all COSC certified (I think all, but certainly almost all) they are robust and reliable. I suppose I'm asking if the Pam inhouse is of better quality than these ETA's?


You're going to have to define what means "better quality" to you, personally.


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## Watch_Geek

I mean "better quality" as in being a more saught after movement, more accurate, more robust etc For all the reasons we take a £750,000 Patek or Jaeger to be "better quality" than a £20 Casio. Which movement has a greater workmanship and time spent, which will last longest and provide greater precision?


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## JZomok

I currently own a 183 so I would go with that. Ive actually owned 2 and I absolutely love them. Plus there a bit cheaper than the 380.


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## handwound

Watch_Geek said:


> I mean "better quality" as in being a more saught after movement, more accurate, more robust etc For all the reasons we take a £750,000 Patek or Jaeger to be "better quality" than a £20 Casio. Which movement has a greater workmanship and time spent, which will last longest and provide greater precision?


More sought after? I'm sure they are, yes.

More accurate? All of the ETA-based movements that Panerai uses which can be COSC certified, are. Not sure you're going to get more accurate than that in a mechanical movement.

More robust? It's a bit too early to tell, but the 6497-2 and 7750 that the bulk of the Panerais use are both well known to be workhorse movements, so robustness shouldn't be a concern.

Greater workmanship and time spent on manufacture? I couldn't say for certain, but I would *assume* the in-house movements would get the nod here, as well.

As I've said before, unless the in-house movement offers a complication that you can't get elsewhere, I don't personally see the big draw.


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## Watch_Geek

handwound said:


> More sought after? I'm sure they are, yes.
> 
> More accurate? All of the ETA-based movements that Panerai uses which can be COSC certified, are. Not sure you're going to get more accurate than that in a mechanical movement.
> 
> More robust? It's a bit too early to tell, but the 6497-2 and 7750 that the bulk of the Panerais use are both well known to be workhorse movements, so robustness shouldn't be a concern.
> 
> Greater workmanship and time spent on manufacture? I couldn't say for certain, but I would *assume* the in-house movements would get the nod here, as well.
> 
> As I've said before, unless the in-house movement offers a complication that you can't get elsewhere, I don't personally see the big draw.


actually you've clarified something for me. The only reason I think I would have for going in house is the prestige of having a Panerai made entirely by Panerai. However to me at this moment the Pam 183 is nicer than the 337 or 338. Why compromise the aesthetics for the internal movement, at the end of the day i'll wear a watch I like the look of, not the wath I think isn't quite as nice but has an in house movement that can't be seen unless its not on the wrist. its safe to say I know what I'm getting next ;p


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## catlike

handwound said:


> More sought after? I'm sure they are, yes.
> 
> More accurate? All of the ETA-based movements that Panerai uses which can be COSC certified, are. Not sure you're going to get more accurate than that in a mechanical movement.
> 
> More robust? It's a bit too early to tell, but the 6497-2 and 7750 that the bulk of the Panerais use are both well known to be workhorse movements, so robustness shouldn't be a concern.
> 
> Greater workmanship and time spent on manufacture? I couldn't say for certain, but I would *assume* the in-house movements would get the nod here, as well.
> 
> As I've said before, unless the in-house movement offers a complication that you can't get elsewhere, I don't personally see the big draw.





Watch_Geek said:


> actually you've clarified something for me. The only reason I think I would have for going in house is the prestige of having a Panerai made entirely by Panerai. However to me at this moment the Pam 183 is nicer than the 337 or 338. Why compromise the aesthetics for the internal movement, at the end of the day i'll wear a watch I like the look of, not the wath I think isn't quite as nice but has an in house movement that can't be seen unless its not on the wrist. its safe to say I know what I'm getting next ;p


Excellent perspective & advice from handwound. The 183 is a great choice :-!


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## handwound

handwound said:


> ...More robust? It's a bit too early to tell, but the 6497-2 and 7750 that the bulk of the Panerais use are both well known to be workhorse movements, so robustness shouldn't be a concern...


To clarify - that should read "It's a bit too early to tell with most of the Panerai in-house movements, but the 6497-2 and 7750...."


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## LuxuryGuru

I would try to find a reasonable 183G


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## Watch_Geek

I am now seriously considering a 183G, I think its pride of ownership to me, having the original series with the unique dial and the fact that I'm after something unusual. The shape of a panerai is unusual and I find that the cushion shape of the Rad's make them easy to dress up with or dress down. The black seal 6 o'clock would really be the cherry to me.

What sort of price should I try to get a G series for though? I live in the UK and have found one shop that do a huge range but the only G series 183's they have hover around the £3,200 to £3,500 mark. A brand new 183 is £3,900, ofcourse derstand the value of getting the G, the fact that the price may be high because of rarity etc but what price should I really push for? Is £3k wishfull thinking?


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## Watch_Geek

I am now seriously considering a 183G, I think its pride of ownership to me, having the original series with the unique dial and the fact that I'm after something unusual. The shape of a panerai is unusual and I find that the cushion shape of the Rad's make them easy to dress up with or dress down. The black seal 6 o'clock would really be the cherry to me.

What sort of price should I try to get a G series for though? I live in the UK and have found one shop that do a huge range but the only G series 183's they have hover around the £3,200 to £3,500 mark. A brand new 183 is £3,900, ofcourse derstand the value of getting the G, the fact that the price may be high because of rarity etc but what price should I really push for? Is £3k wishfull thinking?


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