# Disappointed on Steinhart & Gnomon Watehes!!!! I'm very angry!



## rckh (Aug 31, 2011)

Dear all fellows:

I'm very sorry my first post on WUS is a complaint & problem thread...........
I ordered the Steinhart Ocean 44 GMT Black-red on Gnomon Watches - Watches + Accessories + Emotions in Singapore on monsday 29/8 for my brother brithday gift on coming Saturday. Super fast delivery by UPS from SG to Hongkong(SAR) only 1 day & I received it lastnight.

After I unpacked the package I found the box is something wrong. Outer white box didn't have Steinhart logo. The Black inter box also didn't have the Steinhart and I never saw Steinhart using the kind of box....OK, No problem; I can get along with it. My little brother wearing the watch not wearing the box,right? Also, I only found a tag & stamped manual inside the box. I wonder is there any warranty card should provide by Steinhart? Without the warranty card & the serial no; How can they provide warranty?



















Next, When I check the functionality of the watch. I found the GMT hand is mis-align & shifted 15minutes. No problem at all; I knew it's a simple fix for my faithful watchsmith just re-install the handsets & it will work fine.
BUT, when I going to check the lume; I found the 6 o'clock index is Green rather than Blue as the others. Last as I use my maglight torch to check the lume; I found there are many tiny dust inside the sapphire crystal.




























I already contact Mr.Ander Tan on Gnomonwatches. He told me this is the last Ocean 44 Black-red they have. So, I need to send it back and have my refund. Mr.Ander Tan told me he will arrange the international UPS express to pick up the return package; so I'm just sit here and wait for them. Only 2 days left for me to source a new Steinhart for my brother; I'm getting enough of trouble now.

Maybe I'm a very unlucky, But I doubt why GnomonWatches didn't do the QC check before they ship? Why & How come they're not send me the original Steinhart inter/outer box? A replacement unnamed box? Is it truth Steinhart didn't provide warranty card & serial no? What do you think, fellows?

Best Regards,
Raymond


----------



## Pakz (Aug 16, 2011)

Hello, Raymond,

I understand your frustration with the fact that time is short and there are dusts on the crystal (that has happened to me on a Omega, and whatever the price you pay, it's never a welcome sight on a new watch).

The lume... well, I would have liked it... A mix of colours, just like on the Rolex Milgauss... that's nice and funky... (Even if it could have been better yet with, say, 12, 3 and 9 in green as well)

As for the warranty card and serial number, no, Steinhart never gives that. Only thing you get is a small paper booklet which indicates the movement in the watch, the watch model and the date at which you purchased it.

And lastly, the box. At some point in June or July, Steinhart ran out of their branded boxes and therefore used these new "croc covered" boxes. They don't show the brand's name, but are, in my understanding, just as well (if not better) than the normal boxes. If you had bought directly from Steinhart, you wouldn't have gotten that box, since they have restocked the branded box sometimes ago. Obviously, going through Gnomon, which has to maintain an inventory etc. you got the "older" replacement box.

I hope that the problems you have resolve quickly... Still, if your caught by the delays, believe me, giving a card with a picture saying "you'll get this watch when it arrives" is close to be as good as receiving the watch itself. Happened to me in the past and I was very happy with it!


----------



## rckh (Aug 31, 2011)

Dear Pakz:

Thx for your input & it really make me a little comfort.

I had collected swiss wristwatches 6 years already. This is the worse experience I even have; still can't believe such a swiss watchmaker couldn't hold the QC such like this. I heard Steinhart become more famous & growth rapidly in their business; that's why I get the Ocean 44 GMT for my little bro as a gift with confidence.
I owned Rolex Daytona, GMTII ceramic, Omega Planet ocean Chronograph, Cartier Santo 100XL, IWC 3717 & 3714, Hublot Big Bang, Panerai 111 & 026 & the latest AP Diver. 
All they work perfectly & such UN-believeable QC problem. Don't mis-understand me; I'm clearly understand Steinhart is not at the same level as the others. But, the problem I've encounter shouldn't appear on any price, any brand level. 

GMT hand shift & the day change at almost 12:35am; obviously it's the problem of craftsmanship of Steinhart's watchsmith. The most un-acceptable for me is the lume problem. Steinhart don't do the QC the check before they ship; AD don't do the QC check before they ship & the outcome are make their customers disappointed & frusture. I think both Steinhart & dealer should take the equal responsibility. Also, for the box; why Steinhart not going to make an official annoucement on their web-site? At least they should let their customer know about that OEM packing arrangement.

Still working hard to source a new one for my little brother; as Steinhart still show out-of-stock for the Ocean 44 GMT series,is there any reliable dealer can recommend?

Best Regards,
Raymond


----------



## romeo-1 (May 31, 2006)

The lume situation is very strange...I'm not even sure how that would be possible. Now, if it were the 12:00 marker that was lumed differently I would think that it was purposely done and an innovation for for the 6:00 to be lumed differently on what is effectively a dive watch is just wrong. I'm a big fan of multicolored lume but only when it serves a purpose and is purposely done. 

Dust and the misaligned GMT hand are unfortunately what should be expected or at least anticipated. It's unfortunate but true nonetheless.

I've got "issues" with my Ocean 44 but nothing that I wasn't expecting and nothing I can't live with. There was dust under the crystal including a speck on the seconds hand but the pluses of the watch far outweight the minuses...plus I made my watch "mine" by modding it with an MoD handset making it my absolute favorite and ideal watch.


----------



## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

hopefully you had been following on the recent discussions on the hiccups on order processing which Steinhart is facing, as well as some quality issues with their GMT movements.it is not only Steinhart is facing some difficulties, their distribution channels are facing the same short supply and quality issues of the GMT watches as all the stocks, be it from Steinhart germany or Gnomon Singapore are all from the same factory/assembly plant.pls share with us... how long does it take from the day u placed ur order till the day u received ur watch?


----------



## Pakz (Aug 16, 2011)

Ed.YANG said:


> hopefully you had been following on the recent discussions on the hiccups on order processing which Steinhart is facing, as well as some quality issues with their GMT movements.it is not only Steinhart is facing some difficulties, their distribution channels are facing the same short supply and quality issues of the GMT watches as all the stocks, be it from Steinhart germany or Gnomon Singapore are all from the same factory/assembly plant.pls share with us... *how long does it take from the day u placed ur order till the day u received ur watch*?


Gnomon having their own stock (and maybe doing some stuff to the watches as well, see the gnomon caseback that can be seen sometimes) the shipping is quite different from what happens direct from Steinhart.

And the OP says that he got the watch in 1 day and a few hours...* Ordered on August 29, received on August 30*... Singapore to Hong-Kong, so yeah, that's fast.


----------



## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

Pakz said:


> ...And the OP says that he got the watch in 1 day and a few hours...* Ordered on August 29, received on August 30*... Singapore to Hong-Kong, so yeah, that's fast.


Ouch... how can i missed that? Yep... Clearly stated...
As for your words on Gnomon doing some stuff to the watches... one thing i can confidently confirm with you is that... the Gnomon team is much more smaller than Steinhart. On the 2 watch i previously get from them, the Gnomon in charge, Mr. Anders TAN, personally adjust the links for me. The other staff i saw are 2 other sales girls.
The Gnomon case back you may see, are strictly available in their special release only... not all models.


----------



## rckh (Aug 31, 2011)

Ed.YANG said:


> hopefully you had been following on the recent discussions on the hiccups on order processing which Steinhart is facing, as well as some quality issues with their GMT movements.it is not only Steinhart is facing some difficulties, their distribution channels are facing the same short supply and quality issues of the GMT watches as all the stocks, be it from Steinhart germany or Gnomon Singapore are all from the same factory/assembly plant.pls share with us... how long does it take from the day u placed ur order till the day u received ur watch?


Is it mean all or most steinhart GMT model have the same misalign problem?

Best regards,
Raymond


----------



## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

rckh said:


> Is it mean all or most steinhart GMT model have the same misalign problem?
> 
> Best regards,
> Raymond


Not really all... but the most recent batch...
If you had read other threads... it's not only the "PEPSI" GMT you have are affected, the Vintage GMT are also fallen victim. Some Ocean Black GMT are also in the list...


----------



## Pakz (Aug 16, 2011)

By the way, the GMT movements do not have problems... It's the setting of the hands that "slips" in transportation, I believe. Other than that problem (I'll check some local watchsmiths to see the prices they'll charge for setting the hands right) my watch is an astounding time piece. It's gorgeous, very well finished, and I set the time last Saturday at noon... Today, Wednesday evening (21:26 local time) the watch is but 4 seconds fast compared to the atomic clock... +4 seconds in 4 days and 9 hours, that's great, I'd say. Particularly when taking into acount that it was 4 seconds fast Saturday midnight, then has oscilated between +5 and +3 all the rest of the time.

So after having "set in", this is a movement that I can says is within +/- 1 second a day... well within COSC limits, better than any of the watches I have and have had...


----------



## fotoman (Jun 2, 2010)

rckh said:


> Dear Pakz:
> 
> Thx for your input & it really make me a little comfort.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear this situation happened to you , but in my humble opinion, Steinhart watches simply offer what they sell for. At this price, you can't expect the same quality as your IWC　Rolex Omega those big names. I am not trying to ruin Steinhart's business and this might set fire on the ongoing debate but this is just my conclusion.


----------



## rckh (Aug 31, 2011)

fotoman said:


> Sorry to hear this situation happened to you , but in my humble opinion, Steinhart watches simply offer what they sell for. At this price, you can't expect the same quality as your IWC　Rolex Omega those big names. I am not trying to ruin Steinhart's business and this might set fire on the ongoing debate but this is just my conclusion.


Thx for your reply!

But, I can't agree with your opinion. I don't expect Steinhart will provide the same quality/level as per the other luxury/highend brand. I just ask for something they should provide; I don't think a shifted/misalign hand & a different colour lume on the dial are acceptable in any price range.

Best Regards,
Raymond


----------



## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

rckh said:


> ...I heard Steinhart become more famous & growth rapidly in their business; that's why I get the Ocean 44 GMT for my little bro as a gift with confidence.
> I owned Rolex Daytona, GMTII ceramic, Omega Planet ocean Chronograph, Cartier Santo 100XL, IWC 3717 & 3714, Hublot Big Bang, Panerai 111 & 026 & the latest AP Diver.
> All they work perfectly & such UN-believeable QC problem. Don't mis-understand me; I'm clearly understand Steinhart is not at the same level as the others. But, the problem I've encounter shouldn't appear on any price, any brand level...


Whenever i mentioned about Steinhart to my other colleagues, who are from different parts of Asia, inclusive of those from Japan... 60% of 'em claims that they have never heard this name before, 20% who owns Rolex may be harsh to claim that Steinhart is just another "copycat" with legal register usage of Rolex design, another 15% who owns Rolex will give respect to Steinhart's products, leaving 5% of them showing interest to the brand's produce.

:think:I won't put you in any one of these group, as i believe besides hearing, you could have been following on the discussions in various forums including the asian ones such as watchbus.com or the HK collector's forum.

From what i see above in the quotes, Steinhart is your first try, and naturally most first timers might have high expectations. It's really embarassing that your first try ends with awkward result... especially as a gift for your kin in such a short period of time.


----------



## Pakz (Aug 16, 2011)

rckh said:


> Thx for your reply!
> 
> But, I can't agree with your opinion. I don't expect Steinhart will provide the same quality/level as per the other luxury/highend brand. I just ask for something they should provide; I don't think a shifted/misalign hand & a different colour lume on the dial are acceptable in any price range.
> 
> ...


In some respects, I agree with you.

However, you'd want to keep in mind that there are a few problems, rather rare by the way, on Steinhart watches that are worth $500. (You'll see a lot of the problems surface here, as it's a leading forum... some, just like you, join only to complain), identical problems can be seen has well on the better known Swiss brands. I've seen a number of Rolex GMT-2 with misalignment problems. There are some IWC Aquatimers that drowned when diving (not very deep), at some point my Speedmaster was 20 seconds fast... All those problems on watches worth at least 5 times more than any Steinhart! And all of these got solved... after the customers paid for the repairs (in the $300 minimum)!!!

So yeah, when buying a watch, we'd all like to get a certain "minimum level of goods". But even the best QC procedure is not absolute. particularly for very delicate pieces like mechanical watches. During transportation things may go wrong. When buying from a good AD, the risk is reduced: first the AD may see (and solve) the problem before selling, and you may see it as well, ending up buying only watches that you see meet your expectations (well for visible problems like hands, dust and the like, not time keeping or water tightness, obviously).

What I'm trying to say is that yes, there should be a better level of QC, maybe (shipping the watches around the globe in smallish parcels can't really help) but given the price paid, it's not catastrophic. And in the end, the real thing is how does the company handle the customer to whom those problems happen. In the case of Steinhart, it's great. In the case of better known brands problems may be rarer, but the problems are frequently handled less nicely.


----------



## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

romeo-1 said:


> The lume situation is very strange...I'm not even sure how that would be possible. Now, if it were the 12:00 marker that was lumed differently I would think that it was purposely done and an innovation for for the 6:00 to be lumed differently on what is effectively a dive watch is just wrong. I'm a big fan of multicolored lume but only when it serves a purpose and is purposely done.


you would have to be idiot to purposely give only the 6 a different lume. Wake up at night seeing your watch dial upside down on your wrist? Sure, no problem. "We're most adaptable when we're most groggy, and we'll get right back to sleep, no problem."


----------



## exxondus (Sep 10, 2007)

Sean779 said:


> you would have to be idiot to purposely give only the 6 a different lume. Wake up at night seeing your watch dial upside down on your wrist? Sure, no problem. "We're most adaptable when we're most groggy, and we'll get right back to sleep, no problem."


Am i reading romeo-1's post wrongly? I tht he was saying that its wrong to have the 6 lumed in a different way and not what you are reprimanding him so harshly for.


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

OK - the OP orders a watch from an international vendor on a Sunday, 5 days before his brother's birthday? Nothing like waiting for the last minute. I'm impressed Gnomen was even able to make that happen.

The lume dot is a clear mistake - no doubt - but I can't see how you can hold Steinhart or Gnomen responsible. Those are applied indices, meaning they are glued to the dial blank probably by a machine that processes thousands of dials a day. An indices with the wrong lume somehow got into the machine's hopper and got stuck on your dial. We are talking about a 1 in a million chance. I have only heard of this happening a a handful of times (never with Steinhart) so it is a rare occurance. I just don't see Steinhart or Gnomen reasonably checking lume color on every watch before shipping - statistically speaking it doesn't make sense.

The GMT hand alignment issue is a definite problem, but again, one that is known about. It may have been fine at Gnomen even, so again hard to lay the blame at their feet. It can be easily resolved either locally or through Steinhart's repair service. I imagine Steinhart would gladly repair / replace your dial as well.

It is great that you got your brother a Steinhart for his birthday - extremely thoughtful and a very nice gift. I would encourage you to work this out with Steinhart and simply tell your brother about the great watch he is going to receive in a short time. If you absolutely must have a watch to present to him, simply ask for a refund and purchase something else locally. I do not see this as something to be "Very Angry!" about.


----------



## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

Ryeguy said:


> ...The GMT hand alignment issue is a definite problem, but again, one that is known about. It may have been fine at Gnomen even, so again hard to lay the blame at their feet. It can be easily resolved either locally or through Steinhart's repair service. I imagine Steinhart would gladly repair / replace your dial as well...


Hmmm... perhaps adding a "not" @ "It may not have been fine at Gnomen even..." may clear Gnomon from the fault, as they're also replying on Steinhart on the supply of their stocks...
Right now the OP could look elsewhere for other makes, maybe not Steinhart produce, as a gift since the time is tight right now. BALLS or TISSOT should be great gift as well...


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Ed.YANG said:


> Hmmm... perhaps adding a "not" @ "It may not have been fine at Gnomen even..." may clear Gnomon from the fault, as they're also replying on Steinhart on the supply of their stocks...
> Right now the OP could look elsewhere for other makes, maybe not Steinhart produce, as a gift since the time is tight right now. BALLS or TISSOT should be great gift as well...


The bottom line is we will never know where the GMT hand was dislocated. What we do know is Steinhart will correct it at no additional cost to the customer, other than the inconvenience of a little wait.

And yes, I agree on you other suggestions. I am not certain of the OP's location, but I would assume there are AD's local to him with many fine alternative options.


----------



## Pakz (Aug 16, 2011)

Ed.YANG said:


> Hmmm... perhaps adding a "not" @ "It may not have been fine at Gnomen even..." may clear Gnomon from the fault, as they're also replying on Steinhart on the supply of their stocks...
> Right now the OP could look elsewhere for other makes, maybe not Steinhart produce, as a gift since the time is tight right now. BALLS or TISSOT should be great gift as well...


Nope, I guess it makes more sense without the "not"...
It's very possible that it left the factory OK, arrived at Steinhart's OK, then arrived at Gnomon's OK too... left their warehouse in perfect alignment and got the hands knocked out of position in the last transportation (possibly the riskier, since not with a "bulk" of other watches, all stickers and warnings about like "handle with care"... )

Ball is quite a bit more expansive...

Tissot in the same price ballpark as Steinharts are generally quartz...

All companies I know of offering GMT watches with 2893-2 (which in absolute terms is WAAAAYYYYY better than the moded 2836 some GMT sport) have the same misalignment problem as Steinhart... It's very certainly a problem with the "slack" in the movement that may be enacted when the watch is very cold (steel contracts) and knocked around (as happens a lot in transportation, particularly air transportation)


----------



## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

exxondus said:


> Am i reading romeo-1's post wrongly? I tht he was saying that its wrong to have the 6 lumed in a different way and not what you are reprimanding him so harshly for.


\

not reprimanding him at all but rather shoddy QC, and it's not just Steinhart. There's many instances of dust and GMT mis-alignment with other brands, even the really pricey ones. It's as though sellers don't WANT to inspect, do a final QC, for fear they might uncover a defect and not be able to sell it--when the buyer might not notice or care.


----------



## arutlosjr11 (Dec 24, 2010)

I for one think you have a right to be upset (although I will probably get flamed for that commment). It seems that some people take a negative thread about Steinhart to heart (no pun intented). In reality, it's just business... If you pay someone (500-1000 + USD), then I do not feel it is to much to ask for them to hire enough people to answer emails, answer most calls, and a little QC before a watch goes out. If the misalignment occurs during shipping then (Steinhart or Gnomon) needs to provide extra, extra packaging. I say this, since I too sell watches, as most of us do, and ensure that short of a bus runing over it, it will arrive safe and sound. Why should we as consumers scale back our expectations? Steinhart hasn't scaled back their pricing because of these "known" issues, have they? NO...

It should be noted that I am not flaming on good ol' Steinhart, as I own a PERFECT VINTAGE GMT but since I am now purchased a Ocean 1 GMT Coke Bezel and want a Ocean 1 Green, I see what others have meant. (I purchased the Vintage from TZ, which was a flawless transaction). I have paid for the Ocean 1 Coke watch on the 20th, the website says they are sold out till August 29th and as of the time I am writing this (2210 hours on September 1st, 2011), I am yet to know anything. All I am asking is for an update to 1) my emails or 2) the website which in turn will update me, the consumer.

The truth is, that prior to me buying the watch, my question filled emails were answered within 24 hours. Now, 4 days have gone by and NADA... If you want to argue that is ok, then be my guest but I for one think it's not. 

Some have posted on others posts that you should just be grateful that the watch will eventually come, since it is SOOOO nice. Well, so is owning your own home, but the process stinks!!!


----------



## rockin'ron (Jun 16, 2010)

arutlosjr11 said:


> I for one think you have a right to be upset (although I will probably get flamed for that commment). It seems that some people take a negative thread about Steinhart to heart (no pun intented). In reality, it's just business... If you pay someone (500-1000 + USD), then I do not feel it is to much to ask for them to hire enough people to answer emails, answer most calls, and a little QC before a watch goes out.
> 
> Some have posted on others posts that you should just be grateful that the watch will eventually come, since it is SOOOO nice. Well, so is owning your own home, but the process stinks!!!


hehehehe, I have to agree with that. Seems like everyone's willing to let Steinhart off the hook because their prices are sooo good! They set the price not the consumer. And that price is the reason for their success. But their setting a good price is no excuse for slacking on QC or CS. When you spend your hard earned those are the things you expect, no matter what price.


----------



## Pakz (Aug 16, 2011)

I really have the impression that the customer service, delay in answering mails etc. has suffered during the summer. I hope it gets better now that September is here. Other than that, one can hardly fault Steinhart for lack of QC... the main problem in terms of frequency is the GMT hand trouble. And that problem occurs on ALL watches with a ETA 2893-2 that are not purchase at "brick and mortar" stores. The explanation that the slack in the movement is large and allows, under certain conditions (cold, shocks, etc.) the hand to get out of place, seems logical. 

Everyone knows about that, and Steinhart does the best they can to limit these problems (extra foam in the boxes of GMT watches, new dial attachment, etc.) That the problem still happens is sad, but they do take their responsibilities and either pay for local repair or get the watch shipped back, repaired and re-sent at no cost at all, so that's very fine with me.

No, the only complaint I have is with the delays in communication. And that's rather new, started this summer.

And that's not a question of price... Communication has been far worse and slower with Omega when my Speedmaster had its problem... And their willingness to help was not on par with Steinhart's...


----------



## exxondus (Sep 10, 2007)

Pakz said:


> I really have the impression that the customer service, delay in answering mails etc. has suffered during the summer. I hope it gets better now that September is here. Other than that, one can hardly fault Steinhart for lack of QC... the main problem in terms of frequency is the GMT hand trouble. And that problem occurs on ALL watches with a ETA 2893-2 that are not purchase at "brick and mortar" stores. The explanation that the slack in the movement is large and allows, under certain conditions (cold, shocks, etc.) the hand to get out of place, seems logical.


btw, gnonmewatch is a brick and mortar store in singapore 

but i still don understand where you got the notion that ALL watches not purchase at "brick and mortar" stores have issues. I do have a few 2893s that work fine. but I did purchase a sinn857 which had a misalignment issue tho. But after a 1-1 switch with a brand new piece, it worked fine.


----------



## Pakz (Aug 16, 2011)

exxondus said:


> btw, gnonmewatch is a brick and mortar store in singapore
> 
> but i still don understand where you got the notion that ALL watches not purchase at "brick and mortar" stores have issues. I do have a few 2893s that work fine. but I did purchase a sinn857 which had a misalignment issue tho. But after a 1-1 switch with a brand new piece, it worked fine.


- First, it's not that ALL watches not bought in store WILL have misaligned hands... More like ALL watch models with a 2893-2 CAN be affected if not bought from a store. Because of transportation and the construction of the movement.

- We cannot say that those having "the problem" don't work fine... Mine is misaligned but works very very fine... keeps approximately a +0.2 second a day...

- Then, it's not that the shop is "as well" a "brick and mortar" that does change anything. The fact is when you buy in a shop, they can check and align if needed before showing the piece, and you will only have aligned hands. If you get the watch shipped to some other place it will be cold (in the airplane, for example) and knocked around, so there are chances the hand will be moved. It obviously doesn't happen every time... probably more like 1 time every 10 or so pieces... Or it gets moved a bit, but so little that you don't really notice.

Some may have watches that are off by 3/4 or less minutes and won't notice. If you don't look for the problem, you'll probably not know there's a problem.


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

Pakz said:


> -
> 
> Some may have watches that are off by 3/4 or less minutes and won't notice. If you don't look for the problem, you'll probably not know there's a problem.


Don't forget too that the Vintage GMT has a dial design that makes even small misalignment issues more obvious, with the 24 hour scale printed directly on the dial. On the standard Ocean GMT (and other makes and models that follow that general design) the 24 hour scale is on the bezel. I don't know if I would even notice a 7 or 8 minute lag on the GMT hand if I was looking out from the hand to the bezel.

I don't mean to keep pushing this thread to the top since, IMO, the premise is wrong. Steinhart, through their authorized reseller Gnomen, provided a watch with a quality defect (actually two - one that may have happened in transit - GMT hand alignment - and one that would be hard to catch in normal QC checks - lume color on one indices). Neither Steinhart nor Gnomen has even suggested they wouldn't stand behind their product and provide support. I honestly don't see this thread as anything more than someone expecting instant gratification and perfection - which to me suggests they will have many more disappointments in this life.


----------



## richc1958 (Nov 21, 2010)

Heck i would keep it ....that lume issue is so different I like it....


----------



## Bergarn (Apr 16, 2010)

richc1958 said:


> Heck i would keep it ....that lume issue is so different I like it....


Maybe it's the same principal as mis-printed stamps? 
Having odd lume at 6 might be worth a fortune. Now you just need to find a suitably rich chump...


----------



## ashgrove68 (Jun 19, 2011)

fotoman said:


> Sorry to hear this situation happened to you , but in my humble opinion, Steinhart watches simply offer what they sell for. At this price, you can't expect the same quality as your IWC　Rolex Omega those big names. I am not trying to ruin Steinhart's business and this might set fire on the ongoing debate but this is just my conclusion.


It really is not a good enough excuse to say "Steinhart watches simply offer what they sell for." I have bought cheaper watches from china many moons ago...the Alpha brand for example that had better quality control....and lets not even get started on seiko....all quality assured. I have an Ocean 44 with a mis aligned bezel..... Infuriating because its not rocket science its the fundamental detail, we hear of this more and more...dust in the crystal! Patz found it in an Omega?? really?? I have owned and still do own Omega and Rolex...never had that problem...so I am as puzzled as you as to what is going on a Steinhart. I must say though when you bring up a problem with them they always get around to putting it right. It has to be said. I think the problem is lack of staff or the right staff checking this stuff.


----------



## arutlosjr11 (Dec 24, 2010)

Ryeguy said:


> I honestly don't see this thread as anything more than someone expecting instant gratification and perfection - which to me suggests they will have many more disappointments in this life.


Ryeguy, with all due respect, why should he not exptect instant gratification and perfection? After all, that is why we purchase something new. If we wanted something with defects we would buy items labeled "Defective".... I'm not really aware of many people that buy a product expecting to not be thrilled with it upon it's arrival, especially in our chosen hobby. With that being said, things DO HAPPEN and in life, things happen a lot. In the grand scheme of things, this is miniscule but it shouldn't deminish ones right to 1- be upset and 2- voice your thoughts on it.


----------



## Pakz (Aug 16, 2011)

ashgrove68 said:


> It really is not a good enough excuse to say "Steinhart watches simply offer what they sell for." I have bought cheaper watches from china many moons ago...the Alpha brand for example that had better quality control....and lets not even get started on seiko....all quality assured.


Well, you got lucky on Seiko and Alpha, then... Just as the OP was unlucky with Steinhart... That's a two point sample, nothing to draw general conclusions from, isn't it? I can tell you that the Seiko I own currently (Monster) and others I had, all have a few problems. And, to me at least, don't really feel same price/quality level as Steinhart, in general, nor is their fit and finish comparable in anyway. But you know how it is on forums... Some guys complain about brand X, so everyone vents his complaints, even when smaller than minuscule. Reversely, everyone moons over how good the quality on some other brand is, and then no one dares complain. (Particularly true on brands like Rolex)



ashgrove68 said:


> I have an Ocean 44 with a mis aligned bezel..... Infuriating because its not rocket science its the fundamental detail, we hear of this more and more...dust in the crystal! Patz found it in an Omega?? really?? I have owned and still do own Omega and Rolex...never had that problem...so I am as puzzled as you as to what is going on a Steinhart. I must say though when you bring up a problem with them they always get around to putting it right. It has to be said. I think the problem is lack of staff or the right staff checking this stuff.


Well you got lucky with Omega (and Rolex, certainly)... Others have not, and that's too few observations, again, to draw any sort of general conclusion. Even if it were, when you compare how much watch you get per-dollar, you can admit that Steinhart understandably offers less QC or attention to detail. How else could you justify the price difference... For example take a Tag with an (renamed but still identical) ETA 2824-2, and a Steinhart with same movement. The Steinhart will be in the $500, the Tag in the $2000. The finish is rather comparable. So if not on service and attention to some details, how can the difference be justified?

What it leads to is that if you want a purchase with no risk and instant gratification, what you need to do is go to an AD, check the models there, test them on the wrist, leave with the one you prefer. That way you're sure the watch you have doesn't have this and that problem you discover when opening the box. If it has, you just don't buy it and chose the next... If you chose to buy a Steinhart instead of a Tag, it's because you are OK to take chances on these details and you're OK to wait before you get the watch, all of these in order to save big bucks. Maybe as well because you love that or this watch's looks... but only as a side note if you're honest.

Indeed, Steinhart is certainly understaffed (and more so during the summer, what with the holidays). They could hire more people to get things running smoother and have a better QC, etc. That wouldn't prevent all the GMT hands problems for one, and would certainly result in a large increase in prices... You can't have both aspects at the same time.

EDIT: To conclude that long post.
I have the GMT hands problem on my Ocean Vintage GMT. And I will not go around complaining on the company for that. They are taking care of it, even if it takes time. I knew I was taking a risk on that count when buying the watch. But where else could I have gotten a nicely finished, good looking time piece with a ETA 2893-2 GMT, 300m water proof, nice sapphire crystal, for 390€? If I had wanted a "perfect instant satisfaction" on a similar watch, I could have gotten a Seamaster GMT, used, for 4 or 5 times the price... and being "pre-loved" there would have been plenty of problems as well and no guarantee... And a service to plan in the coming years... for close to the price of the Steinhart, new!!!


----------



## romeo-1 (May 31, 2006)

arutlosjr11 said:


> Ryeguy, with all due respect, why should he not exptect instant gratification and perfection? After all, that is why we purchase something new. If we wanted something with defects we would buy items labeled "Defective".... I'm not really aware of many people that buy a product expecting to not be thrilled with it upon it's arrival, especially in our chosen hobby. With that being said, things DO HAPPEN and in life, things happen a lot. In the grand scheme of things, this is miniscule but it shouldn't deminish ones right to 1- be upset and 2- voice your thoughts on it.


+1


----------



## arutlosjr11 (Dec 24, 2010)

@ Pakz: I agree with you on many, many points including the fit and finish of most Seikos, but the run of the mill SEIKO doesn't have an 800 USD median price point. I own 2 monsters and I love them but I keep in mind the are sub 200 USD watches. 

It should be noted that I also own a Rolex Sub ss on down to a 15 dollar Jaragar. In the middle of that collection sits a PERFECT Steinhart Vintage GMT w/ 0 misalignment. It's my baby and I love it. 

The reason I've chimed in is 2 part. #1 - I read a post that really pissed me off. The gist of it was that as Steinhart consumers, the buyer should Not be upset when problems occur including but not limited to (delays in shipping, missed ship dates, unanswered emails, qc problems, ect...) and that by being upset, the person is seen as a big baby, impatient, rude, thoughtless, or "best of all" insensitive to good ol' Steinhart's plight. I can say this, whatever plight Steinhart has is Steinhart's doing. He is a business owner and something's are just the price of being just that
I've heard many excuses which all seem to end with "well that's just how it is". Well, there lies the problem with that....

As a consumer we like to be made to feel that our hard earned money is worth something and that inturn, when we spend it the recipient earns our money as well. This is done by the almighty exchange of monitory funds in return for exemplary customer service and a stellar product. Without that our money is not truly EARNED but instead misspent. This is the foundation of any great business. Money in return for the feeling of satisfaction. The satisfaction I was treated Right and that my product was "as advertised"

When a person, who pays full price for A/Any product, doesn't receive a product as advertised, they have right to be upset. Especially when their expectations were probably high (and why shouldn't they be?) 

NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ANY BRAND

I pose this question. 

When I buy a watch from Steinhart, does he expect 100% of the advertised price? Yes!

What would happen if I paid for only 95% of it? we wouldn't receive it bc he Expects it All!!!

Well then why should we not expect to receive the product we purchased at 100% of the advertised quality in value. 

I fully understand things happen but I believe some posters issues lie more with the "totality of the circumstances" and not so much with an isolated event. This is what leads me to my part 2. 

I own the above mentioned vintage GMT (which I bought thru TZ). And it's perfect. So perfect I decided to buy another GMT coke bezel thru Steiny himself. I paid 100% of my money mid August knowing it was out of stock. It said it's availability was around August 29th, which is fine. Prior to paying, I corresponded several times with Steinhart via email and all were answered within 1 day. So where's the problem?

Well the 29th, 30th, 31st, Sept 1st and 2nd came with No update on my purchase despite to extremely polite emails inquiring. Finally I received one back 5 days later stating the watch has not shipped and they don't know when it will. Ummmmmmmmm.... Ok!! At a minimum another week. 

Obviously, I was upset and having flashbacks of previously read posts, I began to internalize why. 

1- Pre purchase communication was A++
2- watch was paid in full
3- target date came and went
4- post purchase communication was D-
5- no shipment or availability update
6- the email reply that simply stated nothing!

7- best of all: after all this, when , when (since nobody knows when) I receive this watch will it be defective as many others have been? And if so, will it be all this over again to 1) get it fixed or 2) replaced? 

As stated, it's not one thing but several combined. 

I say that if business is soooo good as others have stated:

Hire enough people to handle all emails, calls, web updates (including updating availability dates) and someone to handle product purchasing on a grand scale. Simply telling consumers "I don't know when it will be available" is poor business any way you slice it. I'm a cop and it's not my job to call their distributor, track their incoming shipments, divvy them up by orders placed, accurately update the site, ship orders (properly packaged to minimize trauma during shipping) and whatever else needs to happen so that we the consumer receives 100% of the product we purchased. 

And remember all the feeling of being upset when the products aren't just that, isn't personal it's Business. 

(sorry for my many mistakes since all was typed on my iPhone)


----------



## Ryeguy (Jun 24, 2009)

arutlosjr11 said:


> Ryeguy, with all due respect, why should he not exptect instant gratification and perfection? After all, that is why we purchase something new. If we wanted something with defects we would buy items labeled "Defective".... I'm not really aware of many people that buy a product expecting to not be thrilled with it upon it's arrival, especially in our chosen hobby. With that being said, things DO HAPPEN and in life, things happen a lot. In the grand scheme of things, this is miniscule but it shouldn't deminish ones right to 1- be upset and 2- voice your thoughts on it.


I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to be upset about the defects, but that is not what the OP is upset about. He bought a watch from vendor via the web which was delivered 2 days before his brother's birthday and those two days didn't give him the chance to repair the watch in time as a present.

The two defects are also ones that are not obvious - a different colored lume indices is probably going to slip through almost any company's QC unless they have 100% visual inspection of lume color in a dark room. Do you think this is a common QC check? Given how many times you have heard of this problem in the past, would you institute this QC policy?

The GMT hand issue is one that is known to be caused during transit. The GMT hand could have been 100% fine in Singapore and then dislodged en route to the OP's location. If Gnomen shipped a bad watch, then shame on them, but again, Gnomen has a pretty decent reputation.

BTW - my Ocean Vintage GMT had to be sent back due to defects - more than just a GMT hand. It has been at Steinhart for 6 weeks being repaired during which time Anna has been good to work with. She provided Steinhart's Fed-Ex shipping number and has kept me advised of the progress. Am I disappointed in the defect? Certainly. But I am also giving Steinhart the benefit of the doubt that they will make my situation right.


----------

