# Pam 312 or 510 ?



## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

OK Guys ........ sort this one out 

I've got (what I consider) two stunning pictures and great examples of two superb PAM's but which is best ?

Appreciate comments on both pieces |>


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## Watch OCD (Dec 14, 2012)

Ok just got back from the AD
tried the exact same watches u have posted....312 and 510 same straps.
my vote definitely for the 510 but its totally my personal preference...as the 1950's doesnt suit my wrist too well...my wife on the other hand thought they both look the same 
although im not a fan of the distressed leather strap (as on 510 in the pic above) if i opt for 510 i'd get a cleaner strap.
With 312 you do get auto and date but if its an occasional watch i prefer without date...as changing the date every time is a little frustrating...and i personally wouldn't mind a manual especially when it has 8 days reserve.

having said all this...i would still look into a 111.. Now i don't wanna confuse you more...but i personally am not too much bothered about the in-house....so if i have enough budget to buy a 312 or 510 i would probably opt for a 111...its thicker sapphire pops out more nicely...in my case (with limited budget) i might 'settle' for 005 but ideally a 111.


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## bigclive2011 (Mar 17, 2013)

Both are beautiful so hard to choose!! So get both )


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Great feedback thank you.

The 111 certainly needs investigation for sure.

its cheaper than the 8 day and it's cosc certified.

like you I wanna see and compare the 005 still though.


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

Both are great PAMs but have a enough subtle differences that most would veer towards the one or the other.

auto / handwound
3 days / 8 days
Date / no-date
small / large sec sub-dial
1950 / Luminor
wrist presence / cuff-friendly
"Two-tone" / polished
Reg TM / CG clean CG
audible feedback / silent running
quick release / screws
Alligator / Vintage calf

I didn't bother to look up the pricing but I assume they are close to one another in that regard.

Have fun choosing :-!


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## Rob Roberts (Feb 16, 2014)

date is good


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## maikeru (Sep 5, 2014)

^^^IMO some watch looks better without date window 

If you can compare these 2 watches side by side, there are a lot of differences in terms of looks alone. I would say that it boils down to your personal preference.

312 is more popular model here which also means higher resale value and higher "liquidity".


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Travelller said:


> Both are great PAMs but have a enough subtle differences that most would veer towards the one or the other.
> 
> auto / handwound
> 3 days / 8 days
> ...


Great list - thanks for that :-!

If I highlight the areas which are most "like to have" I suspect the 312 will come out on top tbh as my ideal Pam would consist of ....

black face
sandwich dial
brushed steel case
date preferred 
auto preferred
over size tang buckle (brushed preferred)
rubber and alligator strap
seconds sub dial
Quick release screws would surely make the most sense yeah ?
Cuff friendly not really and issue for me
I like the luminor and 1950 cases in equal measure

Hmmmmm ....... based on that list, I think its pretty clear cut for me isn't it that the 312 is virtually my ideal PAM.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Rob Roberts said:


> date is good


Totally agree.
I am trying to come to terms with getting a PAM without a date, but I hope if I did I don't regret it as I do look at my watch date fairly regularly.
It is only that it is a weekend / special occasion watch that I am thinking I could possibly do without.


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## Watch OCD (Dec 14, 2012)

if you prefer date + auto and are comfortable with the 1950's case...then definitely 312 is the watch for u.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Watch OCD said:


> if you prefer date + auto and are comfortable with the 1950's case...then definitely 312 is the watch for u.


I think you may be right.
Perhaps I need to stop looking at alternatives in the range and decide the 312 IS the best suited model for me.


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

2 Great Watches
Love the 8Day PR but more so the 1950 Case. 
well, you know my pick .

good luck


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Tony A.H said:


> 2 Great Watches
> Love the 8Day PR but more so the 1950 Case.
> well, you know my pick .
> 
> good luck


Yes mate ..... I think the day is nearing when I finally take the plunge and go for the 312 b-) 
As much as I keep perusing the range, I keep coming back to this model and have a good feeling about it.
There is no question it ticks the most boxes for me.


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

:-!

looking forward to see some pics.

Cheers


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Tony A.H said:


> :-!
> 
> looking forward to see some pics.
> 
> Cheers


That is the next (and most exciting) stage ;-)


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

The poll is currently dead even @ 50/50


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## Pattyb69 (Mar 5, 2012)

I loved the 312 ever since I saw pics of it and had it high on my list until I put it on my wrist. Visually it is a perfect watch with such a clean dial but on the wrist it is top heavy, clumsy, and a bit too thick. The manual movement 1950's cases are a lot more comfortable on the wrist. Even the 47mm PAM 422 and PAM 372 felt better on the wrist than the 312. Id look into the PAM 233 as another solid option. I'm holding out to see if the new P.4000 movement will get put into a 1950's case. That should make for a nice slim Panerai.


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

yeah.
makes sense . but also depends on the Shape of the Wrist.
usually Chunky Watches sit High on on Rounded Wrist and low on Flat Wrist . that's a Fact.


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## Pattyb69 (Mar 5, 2012)

I can see that but I have a flat wrist and found that it still sits a bit top heavy/chunky. Thats just my opinion and the reason why I couldn't find it comfortable. I could live with it in a rotation with other watches though.


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## Watch OCD (Dec 14, 2012)

Agreed...i have a flat wrist but still the 312 felt top heavy...but thats just my opinion...others might feel different...tried the 422 which sits better on the wrist...although too large for my 6.75-7" wrist.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

very very interesting opinions - appreciate them all thank you |>

The 312 does seam to divide opinion, particularly regarding the "top heavy" proportions.

I do know what is meant by this though as when I tried it on, it does sit differently on the wrist compared to the luminor cases, but I can't say it felt like it would be an issue to me.

I would say that the luminor I tried on (which was a PAM 24) did sit on my wrist exceptionally well though and it felt very natural, well balanced and you could almost forget it was there.

Whereas the 312 and 1950 case, visually looked more imposing and you were conscious of it being on the wrist both in terms of size and weight - but again, I did not see this as a negative.

If anything, for my first venture in Panerai, I was surprised that the luminor case was so easy on the wrist, as I fully expected all Panerai's to be weighty and bulky.

Fortunately I like both case styles so I am easy either way on this aspect.


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## abzolut16 (Feb 18, 2013)

You will not forget you are wearing the 312, it's hefty - to me at least. But in my opinion a PAM isn't meant to be slim and fit under the cuff, isn't it?

In the 312, I love that it's got date, doesn't require winding, the in-house movement and basically has the package I was looking for in a single PAM. So I've got what I wanted. Good luck deciding


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

Pattyb69 said:


> I can see that but I have a flat wrist and found that it still sits a bit top heavy/chunky. Thats just my opinion and the reason why I couldn't find it comfortable. I could live with it in a rotation with other watches though.


sure SURE. i'm Not doubting that.. the 312 is a Thick-er Watch.

i do have the same Experience when i Wear the 47mm Submersible then Switch to a 47mm Radiomir Manual. both Feel & Wear very different but that doesn't bother me at all.. maybe i like Chunky Watches to begin with  ..


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

we forgot that there's a Similar Watch to the 312. that is the 351 which is a GREAT looking Watch. IMO.
and best part of it "for those who think the 312 is top heavy ?" is that the 351 comes in Titanium Case, and definitely wears Lighter than Steel.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

I'm in the "I want my PAM to be heavy and know and feel its there" camp - so getting a lighter version is of no interest to me, although I can appreciate there may be many who this would appeal to.


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## maikeru (Sep 5, 2014)

Snake-Pliskin said:


> I'm in the "I want my PAM to be heavy and know and feel its there" camp - so getting a lighter version is of no interest to me, although I can appreciate there may be many who this would appeal to.


I also agree that getting a slim-light PAM is a bit "wrong". There are many other brands who fit those category.

Anyway, don't forget to upload the wrist shot when you get one


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## JayVeeez (Dec 30, 2007)

Get the 312 and don't look back. The P-9000 is very reliable and the 312 has become the bench mark for the 44mm 1950 case. It's a no lose situation. Even if you flipped it, 312's, 320's, 321's, 351's, & 359's do okay on resale.

But, if you plan on keeping it the 312 it will surely stand the test of time.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

312 winning poll again ... 11 to 10


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

JayVeeez said:


> Get the 312 and don't look back. The P-9000 is very reliable and the 312 has become the bench mark for the 44mm 1950 case. It's a no lose situation. Even if you flipped it, 312's, 320's, 321's, 351's, & 359's do okay on resale.
> 
> But, if you plan on keeping it the 312 it will surely stand the test of time.


thanks for that encouraging feedback - appreciated !

i can't believe how much thought I'm putting into this watch - but it is a significant purchase for me which I want to get right with no regrets.

For whatever reasoning am uncertain about manual wind ?
Why are Panerai fitting manual wind to most of the lower priced Pams - is it for cost purposes ?
if so still don't get it as autos fitted to some £200 watches nowadays ?
So id never anticipated a manual prior to considering a Panerai.
Am I missing something here ?

trouble is I am still mulling this over and have arguments / cases for several models ....

005 most Pam for least £'s
111 get the sandwich
8 day Pam is new and 8 day
24 still like this model and eta reliable auto
312 dearest but ticks virtually all my boxes


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## notloc08 (Aug 18, 2009)

This is really an apples to oranges comparison. They are completely different watches so if your heart is pulling you in one direction, I wouldn't question it. That being said, I much prefer the manual wind of the 510. Before I bought my 112, I was between the 312 and 112. I wasn't sure if I'd like the manual wind as I had only had automatics in the past. However, I actually enjoy the winding of the manual quite a bit and look forward to winding it every day or every other day (you will do so even less with the 8 day reserve). I like the feedback of the crown, super smooth and foolproof as you will always know when your watch's power reserve is full. I think Panerai keeps the manual winds because other people feel the same way as I do. The manual movement is thinner, bulletproof, and is sort of a throw back to the old days when one would have to wind a pocket watch or the original PAMs.

As for the other factors with the 510/312, I think that you need to first decide if the date is important to you or not. I prefer the non date because I think it adds to the clean lines of the watch. Further, I wear a few watches in a rotation and it's annoying when I'm not sure whether its AM/PM and I don't know if I can set the date without winding at least 12 hours to see where I am. If you have more than a few watches this may be something you might want to consider. To me a big part of my decision came down to how the watch wore on my wrist. I liked the thinner, more streamlined base model case and felt like the 312 sat rather high on the wrist. Your experience may differ, but I think that's a significant factor you should consider in your choice as you're the one who is wearing it most often. As for the weight factor, believe me, you will notice it on your wrist both are rather hefty watches. The problem was more than the 312 feels like it's hanging on your wrist because it sat higher up wheras the 112 felt flush and like an extension of my wrist. After wearing both of these for at least a day, I think this makes a huge difference.

Finally, I decided that I absolutely loved the base dial. Clean, elegant, and timeless. I figured that I could always buy the 312 later on as the 112 was perfect for my entry into the Panerai world. The 312 includes a few more complications that I think drift a bit further from Panerai's original DNA. I must say that I have not regretted my decision in the slightest, and have actually purchased a few watches since that time, none of which I have loved as much as my base PAM. There really is no wrong choice here as both are beautiful and classic watches, I just wanted to give you a bit of what factored into my own similar decision.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

notloc08 said:


> This is really an apples to oranges comparison. They are completely different watches so if your heart is pulling you in one direction, I wouldn't question it. That being said, I much prefer the manual wind of the 510. Before I bought my 112, I was between the 312 and 112. I wasn't sure if I'd like the manual wind as I had only had automatics in the past. However, I actually enjoy the winding of the manual quite a bit and look forward to winding it every day or every other day (you will do so even less with the 8 day reserve). I like the feedback of the crown, super smooth and foolproof as you will always know when your watch's power reserve is full. I think Panerai keeps the manual winds because other people feel the same way as I do. The manual movement is thinner, bulletproof, and is sort of a throw back to the old days when one would have to wind a pocket watch or the original PAMs.
> 
> As for the other factors with the 510/312, I think that you need to first decide if the date is important to you or not. I prefer the non date because I think it adds to the clean lines of the watch. Further, I wear a few watches in a rotation and it's annoying when I'm not sure whether its AM/PM and I don't know if I can set the date without winding at least 12 hours to see where I am. If you have more than a few watches this may be something you might want to consider. To me a big part of my decision came down to how the watch wore on my wrist. I liked the thinner, more streamlined base model case and felt like the 312 sat rather high on the wrist. Your experience may differ, but I think that's a significant factor you should consider in your choice as you're the one who is wearing it most often. As for the weight factor, believe me, you will notice it on your wrist both are rather hefty watches. The problem was more than the 312 feels like it's hanging on your wrist because it sat higher up wheras the 112 felt flush and like an extension of my wrist. After wearing both of these for at least a day, I think this makes a huge difference.
> 
> Finally, I decided that I absolutely loved the base dial. Clean, elegant, and timeless. I figured that I could always buy the 312 later on as the 112 was perfect for my entry into the Panerai world. The 312 includes a few more complications that I think drift a bit further from Panerai's original DNA. I must say that I have not regretted my decision in the slightest, and have actually purchased a few watches since that time, none of which I have loved as much as my base PAM. There really is no wrong choice here as both are beautiful and classic watches, I just wanted to give you a bit of what factored into my own similar decision.


That is a great insight thank you and exactly the kind of feedback / advise I am looking for and is very helpful.
The 112 is a lovely watch, but I really want to to have a minute hand - although I am coming to terms with possibly losing the date if I had to.
This will be a ( weekend / holidays / special occasion ) watch for me - so not a major factor if 3 day or 8 day reserve if its a wind up - auto is not a factor either way.

I do know what you are saying about the 312 / 1950's cases possibly feeling like they perch on your wrist rather than feeling part of your wrist.
I kinda felt that when I previously tried on the PAM 24 which has a luminor case - then trying on the 312 it most certainly felt more pronounced on my wrist.
I am at a point where I probably need to try both case styles on again and really take in the feel of each one.
I can't recall it feeling an issue to me, but I do now want to examine this aspect much more closely, now I am homing in on a purchase now.

I'm still torn between styles - to the untrained eye, PAMS may appear to be all very similar but the subtle differences between models is driving me nuts 
Yes I know my short list above is quite diverse and the differences between them are significant, but truth be told I do like them all which is making my decision so much harder.


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## Pattyb69 (Mar 5, 2012)

As a weekend/special occasion/holiday watch, any PAM, even the really tall/thick automatics will do fine. They just become a problem as a daily.

Next time you are at an AD, try on a PAM 233 and a PAM 312. The fit and feel of these models are completely different. Most people find the PAM 233 a lot more comfortable because it sits flat and doesnt "hover" on your wrist. I know the 233 isnt on your list but I meant it more as an exercise to feel the different case styles.

Either way, if you plan to wear this watch occasionally I dont see you having much of an issue. Try on a PAM 422 while you are the AD too. Its beautiful in person.


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## notloc08 (Aug 18, 2009)

Pattyb69 said:


> As a weekend/special occasion/holiday watch, any PAM, even the really tall/thick automatics will do fine. They just become a problem as a daily.
> 
> Next time you are at an AD, try on a PAM 233 and a PAM 312. The fit and feel of these models are completely different. Most people find the PAM 233 a lot more comfortable because it sits flat and doesnt "hover" on your wrist. I know the 233 isnt on your list but I meant it more as an exercise to feel the different case styles.
> 
> Either way, if you plan to wear this watch occasionally I dont see you having much of an issue. Try on a PAM 422 while you are the AD too. Its beautiful in person.


Completely agree with this. Wish I had the funds for a 233 dot I would buy one in a heartbeat. IMO one of the nicest watches I've had the pleasure to try on, wears like a dream and the dome is top notch.


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

Snake-Pliskin said:


> ... Why are Panerai fitting manual wind to most of the lower priced Pams - is it for cost purposes? if so still don't get it as autos fitted to some £200 watches nowadays...


Hmm...
The PAM 021 comes with a 60hr "manual wind" .... $200K+
The PAM 203, 8 days ... $100K+
The PAM 300, $50K+
The PAM 399, $30K+
I could go on...

Ok, maybe I'm not being fair here, considering these are all very special and unique PAMs but...
A new 233 (P.2002 hand-wound) - $14K list
A new 275 (P.2004 hand-wound) - $17K list
A new 372 (P.3000 hand-wound) - $10K list
So you are a little off with your assumption ;-)

But that's not really the point is it; either you like hand-wound and/or you like manual. I wouldn't want my Sea Dweller as a hand-wound and I wouldn't want my two PAMs as automatics...












Pattyb69 said:


> ...Next time you are at an AD, try on a PAM 233 ...


No, he doesn't want to do that, bad idea... :-d


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Pattyb69 said:


> As a weekend/special occasion/holiday watch, any PAM, even the really tall/thick automatics will do fine. They just become a problem as a daily.
> 
> Next time you are at an AD, try on a PAM 233 and a PAM 312. The fit and feel of these models are completely different. Most people find the PAM 233 a lot more comfortable because it sits flat and doesnt "hover" on your wrist. I know the 233 isnt on your list but I meant it more as an exercise to feel the different case styles.
> 
> Either way, if you plan to wear this watch occasionally I dont see you having much of an issue. Try on a PAM 422 while you are the AD too. Its beautiful in person.


Yes the 233 does look VERY nice and can see what you are saying from the photo's on the Pam site alone.
It has a 1950 case but with it being an 8 day manual the depth appears to be less.
Like the numerals though on the watch face - very nice.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Travelller said:


> Hmm...
> The PAM 021 comes with a 60hr "manual wind" .... $200K+
> The PAM 203, 8 days ... $100K+
> The PAM 300, $50K+
> ...


Thanks for that - To be fair I had not looked that far up the Pam range 
I just found it odd that there were no entry level 'autos' and they are all hand wound.
The manuals are pretty cool to look at I must confess.
Did not look at these prior, so I certainly need to have a close inspection of them in an AD I feel - and try the manual wind for myself.
Just never considered I might be considering a manual watch.
Great feedback thank you.


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## tamarindo (Jan 2, 2011)

Snake-Pliskin said:


> OK Guys ........ sort this one out
> 
> I've got (what I consider) two stunning pictures and great examples of two superb PAM's but which is best ?
> 
> Appreciate comments on both pieces |>


I really do not understand this comparison. I think that it would be more interesting to compare the 312 to the 351? At least that's my humble opinion. 
Regards.


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

Snake-Pliskin said:


> ...I just found it odd that there were no entry level 'autos' and they are all hand wound...


The "entry-level" automatic - the 104 - is less expensive than the 510...


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Travelller said:


> The "entry-level" automatic - the 104 - is less expensive than the 510...


In the UK they are both virtually the same price ....

510 = £5,000
104 = £5,100


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

tamarindo said:


> I really do not understand this comparison. I think that it would be more interesting to compare the 312 to the 351? At least that's my humble opinion.
> Regards.


The 351 is not for me.

Don't need titanium and the brown look of this watch is not for me - I much prefer the black look of the 312.


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

Snake-Pliskin said:


> For whatever reasoning am uncertain about manual wind ?
> Why are Panerai fitting manual wind to most of the lower priced Pams - is it for cost purposes ?


i'm Not trying to change your mind. (still think that the 312 is for you.. 1 of the reasons is that you have Doubts about manual wind).

Manual Wind has nothing to do with Cost.
i'd say that the Majority of Panerai Watches are Manuals.. more Historic i suppose.
i used to Hate them , but Now they're my Favorite. i kinda make a connection with it each time i wind it up (it's like talking to her & giving her Life ). it just feels very different. but that doesn't mean i don't wear Automatics.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Tony A.H said:


> i'm Not trying to change your mind. (still think that the 312 is for you.. 1 of the reasons is that you have Doubts about manual wind).
> 
> Manual Wind has nothing to do with Cost.
> i'd say that the Majority of Panerai Watches are Manuals.. more Historic i suppose.
> i used to Hate them , but Now they're my Favorite. i kinda make a connection with it each time i wind it up (it's like talking to her & giving her Life ). it just feels very different. but that doesn't mean i don't wear Automatics.


Thanks Tony & superb feedback as always - and really appreciated during the anguish (I mean excitement) of my PAM search 
Yeah you get where I am coming from on this totally.
312 probably is still the lead PAM for me, but there is an enjoyable aspect of this search and I am learning much more about the brand in the process.
I have to confess that the see through exhibition cases of the manuals do reveal absolute works of art in terms of visual appearance and wow factor - the 111 especially looks extra special.
I will for sure give these models a good examination when I'm next in the AD.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

312 still in the lead now @ 12 / 11 ....... its still extremely close between them though !


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## GX9901 (May 13, 2009)

I have not voted for the 312 or 510 on the poll since I don't really think there's a correct answer. Both are really nice and you can't go wrong with either. What you ultimately pick really depends on which one appeals more to you personally.

Now, I own a 312 and really love it, more so today than even when I first got it 4 years ago. I think one of the negatives brought up for the 312 is that it is too heavy and sits too high on your wrist. While it is certainly heavy and does sit pretty high (18mm thick, afterall), I think if you like the watch and are committed to wearing it, the height and weight should be no issue. I mean, I'm an averaged sized guy with relatively thin wrists at 6.5" and am probably pretty weak as far as strength goes, yet the 312 is on my wrist roughly 40% of the time compared to all my other watches (my sig is current). I got used to the heft very quick and sometimes go from small watches such as a 35mm Stowa or 37mm Seiko one day and back to the 312 the next day without issue.

Anyway, the best way to decide is still to check it out in person and then be committed to which ever one you choose. That way, you would have made the correct decision.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

GX9901 said:


> I have not voted for the 312 or 510 on the poll since I don't really think there's a correct answer. Both are really nice and you can't go wrong with either. What you ultimately pick really depends on which one appeals more to you personally.
> 
> Now, I own a 312 and really love it, more so today than even when I first got it 4 years ago. I think one of the negatives brought up for the 312 is that it is too heavy and sits too high on your wrist. While it is certainly heavy and does sit pretty high (18mm thick, afterall), I think if you like the watch and are committed to wearing it, the height and weight should be no issue. I mean, I'm an averaged sized guy with relatively thin wrists at 6.5" and am probably pretty weak as far as strength goes, yet the 312 is on my wrist roughly 40% of the time compared to all my other watches (my sig is current). I got used to the heft very quick and sometimes go from small watches such as a 35mm Stowa or 37mm Seiko one day and back to the 312 the next day without issue.
> 
> Anyway, the best way to decide is still to check it out in person and then be committed to which ever one you choose. That way, you would have made the correct decision.


That is a great insight thank you (and you have a superb watch collection).

There is a LOT of talk about the "top heavy wight" of the 312 isn't there.
I have tried on a 312 twice before on separate occasions and I do recall it feeling and sitting different to a luminor case, but I can't recall it feeling "wrong" on my wrist.
If anything I remember on the 1st occasion - which was my 1st PAM encounter - I recall thinking the Luminor case felt of surprisingly uneventful proportions to what I was expecting and sat extremely well.
From that I mean that I was expecting a Panerai to have some heft and significant presence - it was kinda a positive and a negative.
A positive in that it felt at home immediately on my wrist and its proportions were such that I could easily forget I was wearing a watch, it sat so well.
A negative in that I was expecting (possibly hoping) for my PAM to be felt and know I am wearing a PAM when its on my wrist and have slightly larger proportions than I am used to.

I like the idea of my PAM being so comfortable on my wrist that it could be a daily wear without any question whatsoever, if I wanted it to be - even though it will be an occasional / special wear watch.
But I also like the idea of it having some presence and substance to it - so I know I am wearing my Panerai.

Your comments are encouraging though - I really don't see me having any issue with the 312 at all - more so with how you say you are with yours.
It is also the only model in my range with a brushed casing, which I was REALLY taken by.


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## P1723 (Dec 20, 2013)

Both 312 and 510 are great. 
I had a 359,equal to 312 in terms of cost, movement,back see through case and weight.
I was initially looking at with date and automatic movement as my priority but i later sold it for a 8 days manual and without date.big change huh?
It is not the change in me but the beauty of the simplicity and the buttery smooth winding. As what Tony mentioned, the connection with the time piece every time i wind it.in fact i can't wait for the winding every week!


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## watanabewatches (Sep 8, 2014)

I like the 510. I like the white stitch on the strap. But I'm not sure about the distressed leather. I've not seen it in person but I don't think I'd like the distressed leather.


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## Jailor (Aug 17, 2013)

I have been engaged in the debate between the 312 and the 104 for the last 6-8 wks. Because of my indecision I bought an Explorer II lol. Finally thought I had figured it out and departed for the AD in Houston today to buy a 312. After spending some time with it on my wrist I could not get past the awkward fit. This prompted a closer look at the 104....but I could not get past the lack of sandwich dial. Ended up buying a 510 after the suggestion of the Tourneau salesman. Really please with how comfortable it is and how it looks. Good luck with your decision.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

I hope that buying the 510 on suggestion of a sales person, later down the line does not turn into regret. Personally I would never buy a watch unless I'm 100% certain it's the one I want. Congratulations on your first PAM. Wear it in good health. Please post some pictures.


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

watanabewatches said:


> I like the 510. I like the white stitch on the strap. But I'm not sure about the distressed leather. I've not seen it in person but I don't think I'd like the distressed leather.


It's one of my favorite OEM straps - perhaps "a look in person" would put you at ease...










_More importantly_, this is a Panerai; if you buy a Panerai you will be buying many straps for it - guaranteed! :-d










So please *don't* go choosing your $7K+ PAM based on the darn strap... ;-)


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## Jailor (Aug 17, 2013)

For me the main aspects of comparison were the case size/shape (Luminor vs 1950), the dial (sandwich vs painted) and movement (auto vs hand wound). The strap really did not factor in the decision as I have already ordered some additional straps . I will say I do like the distressed strap, it is very thick and matches the watch well. Ultimately the 510 felt best on my wrist and checked all the boxes except being an auto...but, I think the hand wound 8 day movement will give me the perfect Panerai experience.








As requested a few more pics...









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Travelller said:


> It's one of my favorite OEM straps - perhaps "a look in person" would put you at ease...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GREAT PICTURE !

I'm assuming the PAM on the right is the 510 (judging from the strap & buckle) ... *can you advise what model PAM the watch on the left is please ?*

I am guessing 111 but an not sure.

Both look superb.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Jailor said:


> For me the main aspects of comparison were the case size/shape (Luminor vs 1950), the dial (sandwich vs painted) and movement (auto vs hand wound). The strap really did not factor in the decision as I have already ordered some additional straps . I will say I do like the distressed strap, it is very thick and matches the watch well. Ultimately the 510 felt best on my wrist and checked all the boxes except being an auto...but, I think the hand wound 8 day movement will give me the perfect Panerai experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what a stunning watch & photo's thank you.


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## P1723 (Dec 20, 2013)

Show us the pics once trigger is pulled!


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## watanabewatches (Sep 8, 2014)

I tried both of these on today at the AD. It's definitely a matter of personal preference but you can count me strongly in the 510 camp. That watch just felt good on my wrist. Not to mention it looks great! The 312 didn't feel right at all. top heavy and the shape doesnt sit well with my wrist at all.

I also really like the dial and the 8-day reserve of the 510. I like the small seconds hand, no date dial. It's simple, but not too plane. And I'm not going to wear this watch every day but I'll wear it at least once a week. The 8 day reserve will be perfect for me.

But I also tried on the 564. It's more expensive than the other two, with brownish tones and a Titanio case. But damn if that watch didn't look and feel good! It's a very light watch (for this size). The brushed case looks really good. and it's got that date-less small-seconds hand dial and 8 day reserve I like. The only down side is the color. The 564 has brownish tones and a brown strap. It looks really good, but i've had my heart set on a black watch. We'll see, if they made a black-version of the 564 and I could negotiate a bit of a discount, that would probably be my watch.


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## P1723 (Dec 20, 2013)

watanabewatches said:


> I tried both of these on today at the AD. It's definitely a matter of personal preference but you can count me strongly in the 510 camp. That watch just felt good on my wrist. Not to mention it looks great! The 312 didn't feel right at all. top heavy and the shape doesnt sit well with my wrist at all.
> 
> I also really like the dial and the 8-day reserve of the 510. I like the small seconds hand, no date dial. It's simple, but not too plane. And I'm not going to wear this watch every day but I'll wear it at least once a week. The 8 day reserve will be perfect for me.
> 
> But I also tried on the 564. It's more expensive than the other two, with brownish tones and a Titanio case. But damn if that watch didn't look and feel good! It's a very light watch (for this size). The brushed case looks really good. and it's got that date-less small-seconds hand dial and 8 day reserve I like. The only down side is the color. The 564 has brownish tones and a brown strap. It looks really good, but i've had my heart set on a black watch. We'll see, if they made a black-version of the 564 and I could negotiate a bit of a discount, that would probably be my watch.


Titanium models come with tobacco dial only.u can be sure of that marvellous weight! 
No worries about the dial colour as it changes!no joke!
See what i mean here. 
Sorry for the OT...

Same place i took both pics!

Black



Tobacco


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

The 312 certainly divides opinion with regards to its weight 'proportions'.

It seams you either don't find it an issue or its a killer for the watch / case style.

Thankfully it was fine for me and I actually liked it's over-size proportions - felt how I always thought a 'hefty' PAM would and I could really sense I was wearing something with substance on my wrist.

But as noted before, I like the Luminor cases for how naturaly they intergrate on/with your wrist and could be a daily wear easily in that respect.

The 510 does have wonderful numerals - they seam slightly larger than on most other models - I'm really drawn to them.

I have to confess that 'auto' is still my preferred choice but I am coming round to the possibility of a manual.


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## maikeru (Sep 5, 2014)

Snake-Pliskin said:


> I have to confess that 'auto' is still my preferred choice but I am coming round to the possibility of a manual.


That's when you make "use" of the 8 days power reserve. I wind it every sunday night or monday morning.

it is not that "bad"


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## henry1966 (Dec 30, 2013)

Having a similar hard time deciding between 510 and 111
The 111 is a classic with a well proven movement but hard to find lately. The 510 s a modern in house with 8 daysof power reserve but also 800 usd more.
Any advice?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## threeputt (Jul 26, 2010)

Went through the same choices recently, proud owner of a PAM510 today and have no regrets. Like the power reserve and it is very accurate.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Liking the positive comms on the 510.

I gotta see one 1st hand now.

I am REALLY drawn to the numeral font on the 510 ... it looks slightly re-designed to the other models - slightly larger perhaps too.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Managed to get to a Dealer again and now seen the 510 first hand and compared to a GMT - a 312 was not available, but close enough for comparison I thought.

View attachment 2299074


A 005 or 111 was not available either, as I would have liked to have seen those models just out of interest for comparison.

So the 312 (in GMT form) vs 111 my thoughts ....

312 is noticeably weightier. 
Weightier yes, but I cannot say it felt 'top heavy' - not to me anyway.
312 feels and looks impressive - being a substantial piece - it has excellent wrist presence.
Can't get away from liking having the date with the 312.
Quick pins appeal to me rather than screws.
Brushed steel case looks great.
I noticed that the crown protection is more substantial on the 1950 case than the luminor
Alligator strap feels really premium quality.
Looked great on my wrist - no lug overhang at all so looked a good fit, but it is a tall piece no denying.
You do know (feel) this watch is on your wrist.

510 was very much how I expected it would be.
More understated than the 312 due I think to its slimmer proportions and luminor casing.
Put it on my wrist and immediately felt comfortable.
The 'weight / bulk / heft' that you feel with the 312 is not apparent with the 510 at all.
You could easily wear this watch and it become at one with your wrist in seconds.
(still not sure that is what I want from my PAM though - so still a + and a - potentially I am not sure which)
Without the date it is very subtle (as far as a PAM can be of course) and it does oooze Panerai DNA.
The size again on my wrist looked excellent - not too big or small - just a good size.
Being flatter than the 1950 case, it does sit very well on the wrist too.
The strap felt slightly thinner than the Alligator, but was still nice and very comfortable, although I appreciate the straps are secondary here.
It is a great piece and I liked it.

Am I any clearer on which one ... possibly not 
I still need to think about both pieces a little longer before finally committing for one.
The poll also STILL suggests opinion is EQUALLY divided on both pieces, so no wonder I am struggling.


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## Watch OCD (Dec 14, 2012)

if you are fine with the 312's weight, height, top heaviness, then why not.
it ticks most boxes for you....Auto, date, wrist presence, etc.
the only 'issues' with 312 are top heavy related, which you dont notice on your wrist...so i suppose the 312 is for you...and the 510 is for me 
be 100% sure before you pull the trigger as to which one is for you.
good luck


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## Synequano (May 2, 2012)

If I'm faced with the same choices I'll go and try the Titanium version of both,I have 111 and 177 and I do find 177 is even comfier than 111
I also have 351 and I also find it to fit me better than 312,and the tobacco dial + brown hands really make a difference (I know it's kinda suck when Panerai decided to fit all the new Ti Luminors with tobacco dial)

Personally I prefer black or gold hands to the silver ones,because on a bright day,the silver hands can make it blindingly difficult to tell the time as I experienced on my 123 as well


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Snake-Pliskin said:


> Great list - thanks for that :-!
> 
> If I highlight the areas which are most "like to have" I suspect the 312 will come out on top tbh as my ideal Pam would consist of ....
> 
> ...


So Guys after months of deliberation, not rushing my decision, several AD visits and further consideration I am pretty much there with my decision.

It seams that for every model I have looked at, I have always based the comparison against the 312 - this being the model which ticks virtually every box for me.
(See list above)

The luminor case is very attractive in terms of how easy it sits on the wrist, but for me I really want to know I am wearing my PAM and the 1950's substance generates this and it has immense wrist presence b-)
The brushed casing is also a BIG + for me, I think it looks amazing and none of the luminor's appear to have a brushed casing - and the buckle is brushed too.
Having a date is a big thing to me and I would be frustrated if this started to annoy me later on.
Auto is without doubt my preference.
The 312 comes factory supplied with my fave 2 PAM straps as standard.

The 312 just feels right and after literally months of consideration, to still feel strongly biased to this model now feels 100% right and I finally feel content with my decision.

So - will be placing an order very shortly.

Even the poll is slightly weighted towards the 312


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

So I was late to see this thread, but I'm glad you finally figured it out and made a choice. FWIW, I agreed with your wife's sentiment as stated in your OP. The two watches don't look so different to me that what is different about their appearance would play into why I'd choose one over the other and the ones I like best don't have a seconds display and/or are old.

At one point, you'd mentioned that the strap figured into how you viewed the two models. I don't know Panerai that well, but I'm curious: is it hard to come by alternative third party straps (or even Panerai straps) that will fit present day Panerais?

Enjoy your new watch when it arrives.

All the best.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

...and a fine choice you have made.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

b-)|>


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

amazing lume b-)


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

Congratulations on your new 312  b-) |>

Where's the wristshot - let's see it!!! ;-)

Enjoy it - you certainly deserve it after such a dedicated due diligence :-!


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## Tony A.H (Aug 2, 2009)

yaaaaaayyy. she's here  :-!
Big Congrats.


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Thanks Guys !

Yeah got there in the end 

Absolutely over the moon.

Will post a wrist shot as requested.

Feels SO GOOD to finally have a Pam after wanting one for so many years, and the searching is over and the wearing has started !


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

the oblig' wrist shot(s), as requested :-!


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## Travelller (Apr 24, 2012)

Snake-Pliskin said:


> the oblig' wrist shot(s), as requested...


Looking good!!! Enjoy it


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## Watch OCD (Dec 14, 2012)

Great!! Congrats on the beauty....
i always knew u were a 312 
Enjoy the 'new-watch-day' what a day it is!...n keep sharing the pics


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## Snake-Pliskin (Aug 4, 2014)

Really appreciate all the very helpful advise given to me throughout by you Guys, it helped in my decision.
It was a very close call in the end between the 510 and 312 and I know in reality I would have been happy with either.
The 312 was the winner in the end though and I am thrilled with it.
No amount of trying on in AD's for a few minutes can compare to actually owning your own and wearing it all day long.
Impressed every time I look at it - no other brand compares for me or has the same level of wow factor.
The weight already feels fine on my wrist - surprised how quickly I adjusted to this.
Also impressive is the accuracy - considering I had some concerns about this, it is excellent.
The watch tests were carried out in November 2014 (as per the booklet) and factory tolerance was noted @ + 1.2 seconds and this is certainly reflected in my own monitoring over 24 hours.
No ticking sound audible I can hear and yes occasional rotor wheel movement but you need a silent room to hear it lol.
Workmanship is second to none - a fabulous piece and well worth the wait.
So pleased to have joined the club, it certainly feels very special and exclusive b-)


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