# VC Patrimony Contemporary or Patek Calatrava 5119?



## liujin08 (Mar 13, 2012)

What do you guys think? Been going over this conundrum for awhile now, looking for a traditional formal watch in white gold, maybe get some more perspectives!

Patek Philippe Calatrava 5119 36mm
vs
Vacheron Contantin Patrimony Contemporary (say that twice as fast 3 times lol) 40mm

Right now I'm edging more towards the VC. I like the curves, the shape, size, style, and color, and also I heard that the movement is slightly better finished than the Calatrava.

But I still want the Calatrava, for the Patek Philippe prestige, and especially the hobnail bezel, which is incredible. Only problem is that 36mm looks too small on me, which is a shame because if wanted a hobnail bezel in 38mm I only got the PP5139, which Retails for $91,000 

Any opinions?


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## geoffbot (Mar 12, 2011)

liujin08 said:


> What do you guys think? Been going over this conundrum for awhile now, looking for a traditional formal watch in white gold, maybe get some more perspectives!
> 
> Patek Philippe Calatrava 5119 36mm
> vs
> ...


Get out of public! Mods please move this to the high end forum stat!

Just kidding  Don't buy a watch that's too small or in fact at all imperfect for you. Get the vc.


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## CitizenM (Dec 9, 2009)

I'd go VC between those two.


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## camb66 (Jan 25, 2010)

Pictures please


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

I know how you feel, I've always wanted a Patek Philippe Calatrava, either the 5120 or 5119, for the iconic and instantly recognizable hobnail bezel. However, the simple elegant lines of the Patek Philippe Calatrava 5127 or the Vacheron Constantin Patrimony Contemporaine are quite appealing as well.

What is your wrist size? On my 6.75" wrist, I don't think the 36mm Patek 5119 is too small, particularly if worn primarily as a formal dress watch. Do you intend to wear the watch only for formal occasions, or perhaps on a more regular basis? What is currently your most dressy watch?

I would say that the Vacheron Constantin Patrimony Contemporaine is a bit more versatile than the Patek Philippe 5119, due to its size, and the clean dial design, which allows it to be used in a less dressy setting as well. Depending on what other watches you have in your collection, this might be something to keep in mind.


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## H2KA (Apr 17, 2010)

+1 for VC, assuming it's the one with display back.. If I'm not mistaken the 40mm manual wind version has solid caseback.. It's either the 40mm Contemporaine Automatic with date or 36mm Contemporaine Small..


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## camb66 (Jan 25, 2010)

VC for me


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## mat_ (May 29, 2011)

PP for me...although 36mm is a bit small


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## marchone (Dec 20, 2007)

Nice dilemma to have. Given the choices and your comments I would go with VC for the size alone. They are both beautiful pieces.


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## malarky_hk (May 1, 2012)

Vacheron gets my vote. Simple yet elegant and more versatile than the Patek. If you're gonna spend that kinda money - you should be able to get more use out of it. Just my two cents worth.


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## Gary123 (Oct 12, 2009)

I'd go with the VC. That PP is very small.

I also never understood the white gold thing. If you go gold, get yellow / rose, otherwise get stainless, unless that is not available, or you really want to go under the radar (assuming ss is not an option). Yellow or rose gold just has such a wonderful and traditionally dressy look.


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## fasthandssam (Feb 9, 2011)

It seems like the VC excites you a little more, but I can see your hesitation because Patek is so highly regarded, almost sacred even. But still, you've got to get what will excite you and I think in this case the VC would be the right choice. I would also suggest bringing the A. Lange & Sohne Saxonia Thin into the mix, since it may have the nicest level of finishing on the movement and is also sort of the ultimate dress watch. But to be honest, among these grail-worthy creations of mechanical art, there is no wrong choice. Any of these will probably make you very happy.


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## liujin08 (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks for everybodys reply, glad to see many people like the VC as well.

I plan to wear it very frequently, even though its rather formal I think it works with a white shirt and black leather shoes(my work clothes staples)

Is the lange even more highly finished than the two here? Is there an expert who can clarify the differnce in finishing?


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## fasthandssam (Feb 9, 2011)

liujin08 said:


> Thanks for everybodys reply, glad to see many people like the VC as well.
> 
> I plan to wear it very frequently, even though its rather formal I think it works with a white shirt and black leather shoes(my work clothes staples)
> 
> Is the lange even more highly finished than the two here? Is there an expert who can clarify the differnce in finishing?


Well I'm not an expert, but I think the Lange has at least the same level of decoration on the movement. *PLUS* the balance cock is hand-engraved, which is probably the most labor-intensvie, "hand-crafted" decoration on either three of these watches. It also looks beautiful. So that's why I would give the nod to Lange.

Inside The Manufacture: A Look At A. Lange & Söhne's Balance Cock Engraving (VIDEO) - Watches Worth Knowing About - HODINKEE check out this little blurb on Hodinkee. Pretty neat.


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## AudiSucks (Jan 17, 2012)

i'd go with the Vacheron. It looks like it could be worn casually unlike the Patek or Lange which appear a bit cold and stale


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## vaffangool (Nov 12, 2013)

Gary123 said:


> I also never understood the white gold thing. If you go gold, get yellow / rose, otherwise get stainless, unless that is not available, or you really want to go under the radar (assuming ss is not an option). Yellow or rose gold just has such a wonderful and traditionally dressy look.


*If the other materials* match your wardrobe better than white gold does, you are probably more of a Royal Oak Export kind of guy.

*I know for a fact* that the Gérald Genta watches--the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak, the IWC Ingenieur, the Patek Phillipe Nautilus--are impeccably finished...but no amount of detailing can give stainless the liquid, buttery feel of polished gold. I imagine platinum has that same warm magic.



liujin08 said:


> ...I'm edging more towards the VC....I heard that the movement is slightly better finished than the Calatrava....But I still want the Calatrava....Only problem is that 36mm looks too small on me


*The **Ref. 5227 Calatrava* is 39 mm and it's got a new invisibly-hinged officer's cover that opens up to reveal a sapphire crystal caseback. Showcased inside is a nicely-finished in-house calibre, the *28,800* vph 324 S C with Gyromax.

*No hobnail bezel*, but it does have nicely fluted lugs.







v





​


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## renovar (Oct 7, 2013)

I second the 5227 pp. On bang for your money basis and resale value pp is hard to beat. In regards to the ALS saxonia thin, I highly recommend taking a look. I have the wg version. Its very understated perhaps even attracts less attention than the pp most likely because very few out side watch enthiusiast circle knows the brand. Just becareful if you have Jewish friends/coworkers as some may have problems with ALS brand (one of my partner s is Polish jew and he said his family dispises the brand)...


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## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

renovar said:


> I second the 5227 pp. On bang for your money basis and resale value pp is hard to beat. In regards to the ALS saxonia thin, I highly recommend taking a look. I have the wg version. Its very understated perhaps even attracts less attention than the pp most likely because very few out side watch enthiusiast circle knows the brand. Just becareful if you have Jewish friends/coworkers as some may have problems with ALS brand (one of my partner s is Polish jew and he said his family dispises the brand)...


That's a very interesting observation.


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## mleok (Feb 16, 2010)

vaffangool said:


> *The Ref. 5227 Calatrava is 39 mm and it's got a new invisibly-hinged officer's cover that opens up to reveal a sapphire crystal caseback. Showcased inside is a nicely-finished in-house calibre, the 28,800 vph 324 S C with Gyromax.
> 
> No hobnail bezel, but it does have nicely fluted lugs.
> *


*

At $35K for the yellow gold version, or $37K for the rose gold, it seems like a poor value compared to the entry level Calatravas. At that price, I would save up a bit more for their beautiful annual calendar models, like the 5396 for $51K.*


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## Galactic Sushiman (Dec 3, 2012)

'HE' says Saxonia. And I like his rational.


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## zypher84 (Oct 23, 2007)

another vote for the VC, but i would take the Lange over both


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## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

5119 was not the best looking watch on the wrist, at least for me.


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## The Naf (Mar 31, 2012)

fasthandssam said:


> Well I'm not an expert, but I think the Lange has at least the same level of decoration on the movement. *PLUS* the balance cock is hand-engraved, which is probably the most labor-intensvie, "hand-crafted" decoration on either three of these watches. It also looks beautiful. So that's why I would give the nod to Lange.
> 
> Inside The Manufacture: A Look At A. Lange & Söhne's Balance Cock Engraving.(VIDEO) - Watches Worth Knowing About - HODINKEE check out this little blurb on Hodinkee. Pretty neat.


Add to this the gold chatons, blued screws and that wonderful goldish hue you get with oxidization of the German Silver plates. Is it better *finished*? Hard to say. Is it better *decorated*? Definitely!

Between the two options I'd go with the VC everyday of the week. The hobnail bezel is not to my taste though so you'd expect that. I also prefer the cleaner lines of the VC


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## TimelessFan (Aug 19, 2013)

Get the VC and enjoy the hell out of it. You'll find it to be much more chic and versatile and I'd argue that it's a better looking dress watch than that Calatrava which looks good..on an old man's wrist.


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## geoffbot (Mar 12, 2011)

Very old thread - I'm sure the Op has decided by now!


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## markrob (Jun 13, 2013)

Specifically, why do you believe Jews may well have issues with the ALS brand?


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## geoffbot (Mar 12, 2011)

markrob said:


> Specifically, why do you believe Jews may well have issues with the ALS brand?


I don't know if they do or don't but no need to discuss it here I don't think...


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## markrob (Jun 13, 2013)

Kindly PM me if you have any information regarding the above mentioned issue.


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## hvgotcodes (Sep 27, 2012)

That VC is gorgeous. I haven't seen it in person but the pictures look great.

I have seen the 5227 Calatrava in person and it is absolutely sublime. Pictures don't do it justice. The see thru case-back reveals internals of which I have not seen the equal (in my admittedly limited experience). The movement of the rotor is crisp and decisive. I can't even describe the color on the rotor; but somehow it looked more crisp than any gold I have ever seen. The dial radiates purity and simplicity. In short, the thing is unbelievable.


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## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

I don't want to be inflammatory but I believe the reason is because of the original Lange brand had some ties with ..... and some of their watches were worn by them including .......

I believe German automakers have the same association though and I'm sure ...... also ate bread.


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## TimelessFan (Aug 19, 2013)

shnjb said:


> I don't want to be inflammatory but I believe the reason is because of the original Lange brand had some ties with ..... and some of their watches were worn by them including .......
> 
> I believe German automakers have the same association though and I'm sure ...... also ate bread.


I never liked David Hasselhoff.


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## shnjb (May 12, 2009)

TimelessFan said:


> I never liked David Hasselhoff.


oh I didn't realize that the words were taken out
I guess it is better not to mention them anyway.


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## tony20009 (Sep 25, 2013)

For me, the PP is my formal wear watch. I don't have a VC. I like wearing the king of watch brands with the king of costumes. I also like that the PP is small and discrete under my shirt cuffs. 

A personal thing here: stylistically, I think the minute markers on the VC push it more toward daytime wear, though it'd be just fine with a tux. Even so, the dots remind me of the JLC MCUT (and the regular one too) and I definitely see them as daytime dress watches more than as formal wear. 

Lastly, and this may sound silly, but the metallic markers on the VC will reflect color and light in different ways. That's unavoidable, tut I like that the PP has one look form every angle.

Having said that, if you are going to wear this watch to work with a sharp suit and barrel cuffed shirts, get the VC. IMO, the PP has to be worn with French cuffed shirts at a minimum. 

All the best. What a nice dilemma to have.


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