# Watch design project. Feedback wanted! :) Vintage-style diver



## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Hi all,

I'm in the process of designing my second idea with a view to making a couple for personal use.

Earlier this year I made two of my first design which was really simple and a strong homage to the Breitling Superocean 2005 (one of my favourite watches, but unobtainable for me!). The first design was this:








I'm now looking at my next design and I've come up with these so far. It's an evolution of the first design which is pure homage, and I've added my own design tweaks to it. Date and non-date versions. I usually lean towards a date as I find it very useful but the non-date has a little extra symmetry which looks cool. I've also made examples with and without the extra inside minute track.

Case size: 40mm
Lug width: 22mm
Crystal: Flat sapphire
Movement: Seiko NH35a





























What is everyone's thoughts? Feedback is much appreciated


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## nunomargalha (May 12, 2015)

daves2889 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm in the process of designing my second idea with a view to making a couple for personal use.
> 
> ...


Their great! Very clean design!

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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks mate! Did you have a preference with date/no date or with the additional inside minute track or not?


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## OvrSteer (Feb 17, 2014)

Some minor/not-so-minor nitpicks:

- If symmetry is important, how hard would it be to get a vertically oriented date wheel for the NH35 and put the date at 6? That solves the symmetry problem at least for those who prefer a date.

- The hands on the previous prototype seem awfully small for a diver. Here they're going up in size a bit, but the hour and minutes are pretty similar in length if not width.

- Here's the big one for me. I cue off the size of the dial very strongly to feel if the watch is OK in size or too small. Having a dark area surrounded by light area makes the dial feel like it's only the center in terms of visual weight. Pulling the indices into the middle and making sure the hands don't go past that visual barrier make it even more obvious. Combined with a 40mm diver which (for me) is just too small for a diver/watch with bezel and a dial that makes it feel small, it seems like it's going to "wear" even smaller.

I remember the first time I saw a modern Hamilton Pan Europ in person-- I had gone to see it specifically and once I put it on my wrist it was an instant no sale. The dark dial (surrounded by white) on a moderately large watch felt like I was wearing a medium-to-large watch with a teeny tiny dial and that was that. I have no interest in that model anymore.

But let's be honest-- I'm not the entire market and you're free to take whatever I mention with a grain of salt. Separating the design from the size, I'm personally just not going to consider a 40mm diver and only look at 40mm watches in the context of all-dial stuff.


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## OvrSteer (Feb 17, 2014)

Oh, and if you keep the date at 3:00, a black date wheel with white numerals is the other good option to make it feel less asymmetrical.

$.02


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

OvrSteer said:


> Oh, and if you keep the date at 3:00, a black date wheel with white numerals is the other good option to make it feel less asymmetrical.
> 
> $.02


Hey,

Thanks a lot for your feedback. Very much appreciated so thanks for taking the time to reply.

On the date window, I think I prefer it at three as that's the place I'm most used to seeing it, rather than at 6. I will have a look at the inverted colours of the datewheel though. That's a good idea.

Your comments about the size are very interesting and have struck a valid point with me. I usually wear a Superocean Abyss which is 42mm but wears quite small due to the large bezel, and the sectored dial with the yellow chapter ring. Bumping up the size to 42mm might be a good shout in terms of wearability as you're right, it'll likely wear smaller than due to the design.

Thanks for your input - very helpful!


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## Marron (Jul 25, 2018)

I like the design. It sort of looks like a Pelagos dial in a Black Bay case.


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks! Someone else mentioned a Pelagos hint, which I'd not realised/thought about. Happy with the comparison, good company to be in with Tudor!


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## kylevuong (Jul 18, 2018)

I like the design overall, however I might consider 20mm straps instead of 22mm because of its 40mm diameter and the popularity. Just my experience.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

Oh, I quite like that. Agree with the comment about having a black date wheel. Putting the date at 6 would also help a lot, as suggested.
Overall quite fond of the wide rehaut chapter ring, that's a touch that's quite unusual these days. As mentioned, it evokes a Pelagos, and one of my favorite details of that watch is the way the dial markers cut into the rehaut.

I am finding though that the unfilled rectangle on the rehaut at 12 is out of place. Maybe a fat triangle?


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## sriracha (May 2, 2014)

I quite like it!!!

It’s begging for an orange inner dial 

My only critique are the hands - the hour and minute hands look discordant. Maybe the hour one is too thick and long?


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## devmartin (Nov 27, 2017)

Looks amazing I want it! I prefer the date with no extra minute track. I agree with the other guy go with 20mm lugs.

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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Hi all,

Thanks for all the great feedback and help. Having taken everything into account form here and other sources, this is the design I have finalised and will be having made into prototypes which will hopefully be ready early in the new year. 3D renders to come in the coming weeks 

Case size: 40mm
Crystal material: Sapphire w/ AR on underside
Bezel material: Sapphire w/ lumed markers and AR on underside
Movement: Swiss STP 1-11
Lug to lug:48mm
Lug width: 20mm

What does everyone think?


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## jcc5024 (Nov 30, 2010)

Nice diver design

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## 24watchOC (Jul 11, 2017)

daves2889 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Thanks for all the great feedback and help. Having taken everything into account form here and other sources, this is the design I have finalised and will be having made into prototypes which will hopefully be ready early in the new year. 3D renders to come in the coming weeks
> 
> ...


I dont like the bracelet, maybe oyster is my thing.

However gotta give lots of credits to the watch head design, manly and elegant at the same time


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

24watchOC said:


> I dont like the bracelet, maybe oyster is my thing.
> 
> However gotta give lots of credits to the watch head design, manly and elegant at the same time


Thanks for your feedback! It took me a long time to get the watch head right and finalise the design. I was determined to make something classy with a nod to some vintage dive pieces whilst also being a modern and classy piece. I wanted it to look equally at home on a diver's wrist and on a businessman's wrist. Kind of like the submariner does.

Funnily enough I am actually in the process of sorting out a different bracelet design myself as I decided that the one in the renders just wasn't right for the project. It won't be a plain and simple Oyster as I want the bracelet to be different to the usual offerings from most microbrands, but it will be something that better fits the overall aesthetic.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

24watchOC said:


> I dont like the bracelet, maybe oyster is my thing.
> 
> However gotta give lots of credits to the watch head design, manly and elegant at the same time


I agree with this... somehow, an oyster-style bracelet seems like a better fit for this design. I also somehow find that I prefer the non-squared-insides of the original prototype to the 62MAS-style squares for some reason. That's just me though, I think it looks pretty neat anyhow. Since you're reworking it, I'd suppose something that plays off the blocky look of the indexes and hands would be best.


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Karriope said:


> I agree with this... somehow, an oyster-style bracelet seems like a better fit for this design. I also somehow find that I prefer the non-squared-insides of the original prototype to the 62MAS-style squares for some reason. That's just me though, I think it looks pretty neat anyhow. Since you're reworking it, I'd suppose something that plays off the blocky look of the indexes and hands would be best.


Do you mean the shape of the case/edge between the lugs? As in the straight edge versus the more traditional curved edge? If so, this was probably more of a personal choice. I like being able to use a range of different straps and bracelets on my watches. With curved lugedges there's always a gap between the case and the strap when using traditional straight edge straps. I don't mind this with leather, or rubber straps, but with bracelets I hate it and the only way to combat it is with generic end pieces, that never quite follow the shape of case lugs properly.

So, in an effort to allow greater changeability of straps and bracelets, I went with a straight case edge between the lugs so that it's easier for owners to change straps/bracelets up with a good fit without a gap. The majority of replacement bracelets have a straight edge which will look nice and neat with this case design/shape.

Lots of thought went into every element of the design and I had to be totally happy with each part before moving to completion! The bracelet still continues to be a bit of an issue. I may explore the full bespoke/custom option if an existing design cannot be found. I'd still prefer to have something different from a traditional Oyster as they're a very common design, and I want this to be something different in an owners collection.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

daves2889 said:


> Do you mean the shape of the case/edge between the lugs? As in the straight edge versus the more traditional curved edge? If so, this was probably more of a personal choice. I like being able to use a range of different straps and bracelets on my watches. With curved lugedges there's always a gap between the case and the strap when using traditional straight edge straps. I don't mind this with leather, or rubber straps, but with bracelets I hate it and the only way to combat it is with generic end pieces, that never quite follow the shape of case lugs properly.
> 
> So, in an effort to allow greater changeability of straps and bracelets, I went with a straight case edge between the lugs so that it's easier for owners to change straps/bracelets up with a good fit without a gap. The majority of replacement bracelets have a straight edge which will look nice and neat with this case design/shape.
> 
> Lots of thought went into every element of the design and I had to be totally happy with each part before moving to completion! The bracelet still continues to be a bit of an issue. I may explore the full bespoke/custom option if an existing design cannot be found. I'd still prefer to have something different from a traditional Oyster as they're a very common design, and I want this to be something different in an owners collection.


Yeah, I was referring to that.
You could do a custom end link but that has its own set of problems. I do own a watch with Doug's 62MWW case, so I do admit the straight case edge for lugs looks nice when straps fill the space completely - I like how it makes all the straps look made for the watch. Don't worry too much about my comment. It's that I somehow find the non-squared ends a better fit for the vintage-inspired look. Going with with the squared ends changes it up a bit and helps make its personality more unique.


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Karriope said:


> Yeah, I was referring to that.
> You could do a custom end link but that has its own set of problems. I do own a watch with Doug's 62MWW case, so I do admit the straight case edge for lugs looks nice when straps fill the space completely - I like how it makes all the straps look made for the watch. Don't worry too much about my comment. It's that I somehow find the non-squared ends a better fit for the vintage-inspired look. Going with with the squared ends changes it up a bit and helps make its personality more unique.


I had thought about a custom end piece, but then it wouldn't really end up being compatible with other bracelets, and it I made a universal end piece it wouldn't have looked right with all straps. Lots of deliberation and went with this shape in the end. Whilst it does, as you say, have a vintage-inspired look, I also did want it to have a modern flair to it too. A cross over of modern and vintage. Glad you like the finished peice! I'm looking forward to being able to show the finished head with the finished bracelet design. It looks like I'm going to be going completely bespoke as I just cannot find anything pre-existing that works for my aesthetic preferences...Watch this space!


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## briang583 (Mar 25, 2014)

Just a thought, what about no date and longer indicies at 3-6-9 or 12-3-6-9? I like it in general though, well done!


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

briang583 said:


> Just a thought, what about no date and longer indicies at 3-6-9 or 12-3-6-9? I like it in general though, well done!


12-3-6-9 already have longer indices, but they're only subtly so.


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## sriracha (May 2, 2014)

Really dig the changes. I'lle be watching this one progress 

My $0.02 - remove LUNA ONE on dial. Just put it on the caseback. Cleaner look that way. Also, I'd stay away from the STP movements until they sort out their reliability issues or you're gonna be looking at a lot of after sales warranty work. Go with ETA, Seiko or Miyota (maybe even Sellita).


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

sriracha said:


> Really dig the changes. I'll be watching this one progress
> 
> My $0.02 - remove LUNA ONE on dial. Just put it on the case back. Cleaner look that way. Also, I'd stay away from the STP movements until they sort out their reliability issues or you're gonna be looking at a lot of after sales warranty work. Go with ETA, Seiko or Miyota (maybe even Sellita).


Thanks a lot for your feedback, really appreciate you taking the time to comment! I'm keen to leave the model name on the dial as I think it'd be a bit too empty without. Additionally, with the STP, from other brand owners I've spoken with, they've all have good things to say about the movement. In comparison to Sellita and ETA, rejections/faults have not been notably higher, but they seem to be more publicised and talked about due to STP being relatively new on the market.

In other news we have completed the final design of the bracelet and we're now on to the engineer drawings. From there we can get the 3D model and 3D renders produced from the drawings. Really excited to see this coming to life. The whole project/journey started in July/August 2017 so it's nice to see things starting to come to fruition.

Thanks for everybody's feedback and help so far


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2014)

Simple yet intriguing design. I like it man, id prefer it with the date as it gives it just a tad more detail to the dial.


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Mr. T said:


> Simple yet intriguing design. I like it man, id prefer it with the date as it gives it just a tad more detail to the dial.


You'll be glad to know the date has been included. It's a feature I personally refer to frequently on my watches so I decided it had to be there. The final design is above - what do you think?


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Hi all, I thought I'd show an update of how we're getting on. Building 3D renders now, this is where we're at so far. Enjoy!


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## sugarmanjoe (May 17, 2014)

I agree on removing Luna one from the dial

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## T1TactWatch (Jan 27, 2019)

OvrSteer said:


> Some minor/not-so-minor nitpicks:
> 
> - Here's the big one for me. I cue off the size of the dial very strongly to feel if the watch is OK in size or too small. Having a dark area surrounded by light area makes the dial feel like it's only the center in terms of visual weight. Pulling the indices into the middle and making sure the hands don't go past that visual barrier make it even more obvious. Combined with a 40mm diver which (for me) is just too small for a diver/watch with bezel and a dial that makes it feel small, it seems like it's going to "wear" even smaller.


I like the design for the exact opposite reason. However, i'm a FASHION enthusiast, not just a watch enthusiast. I'm trying to merge the mindset with my design plans.


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## T1TactWatch (Jan 27, 2019)

daves2889 said:


> Hi all, I thought I'd show an update of how we're getting on. Building 3D renders now, this is where we're at so far. Enjoy!
> 
> View attachment 13821525


BEAUTIFUL PIECE ! Are you doing a Gold version too?


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

T1TactWatch said:


> BEAUTIFUL PIECE ! Are you doing a Gold version too?


Unfortunately no gold version. Not something I've considered at this time!


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## t3tan3k (Sep 6, 2018)

I really like the design - both the original and the latest incarnation. Definitely "retro diver done right"! One thing I'd change is make the 12 o'clock index more prominent, if its the same size as the rest, it almost makes it seem smaller than the rest - just a visual effect.. I shopped the latest image you posted and like it this way more - a subtle change to be sure. I also really like the cursive "Luna One" - it definitely adds to the look, but it looks like it utilizes a *cursive font* (regardless if it actually does or not), which I think is a little distracting. I'd suggest vectorizing an actual _hand-written cursive_ and using that - it will add a lot of retro "warmth" to the design.. just my 2c

t3tan3k


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

In the process of building a website at the moment and will have a load of hi res renders showing the final design, and in the three different colour options I'm going to be offering. Here is a sneak peak at the original jet black option


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## Dshirts74 (Mar 4, 2018)

I'll add my two cents. I first have to compliment anyone who gets off the proverbial couch and makes something happen. Whatever spark creates the difference between someone watching shark tank, saying "I had an idea like that," and the person ON shark tank making a deal....you clearly have. Well done. Having said that, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and this doesn't really speak to me. I think it's too sterile. Even little pops if color like on the steinhart titanium, or even the hamtun h2, to my eye are appreciated. I'd wait in the wings to see if you'd be offering any color options. I do think the bracelet turned out better than your initial renderings. It works well with the head. As far as design... And let me say, this is the OCD in me...I think you missed an opportunity with the logo. I personally don't like the logo as it's not as clean or timeless as I think it could be. But recognizing 
that that's just my opinion, as you're going with a triangle, you could have made it match the triangle of the bezel in size, shape, and spacing to the 12 o'clock lume marker. Maybe even lume the triangle. Either way, that symmetry could have become an additional alignment tool, which I'm my mind would have justified it. All in all though, I wish you the greatest success!


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

I think the one thing that's bothering me the most on that final render is that there's a ton of space for a 14/16, 29/31 and 44/46 hash mark on the bezel and they're not there.


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Karriope said:


> I think the one thing that's bothering me the most on that final render is that there's a ton of space for a 14/16, 29/31 and 44/46 hash mark on the bezel and they're not there.


It may look like there's space, but there actually isn't - Take a look at the minute marks on the white chapter ring and if you follow those lines out to the bezel you'll see that they would be way to close to the numbers. For that reason they had to be omitted.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

daves2889 said:


> It may look like there's space, but there actually isn't - Take a look at the minute marks on the white chapter ring and if you follow those lines out to the bezel you'll see that they would be way to close to the numbers. For that reason they had to be omitted.


I accounted for that but somehow it still seems to be the case for me. Like by doing a projection, using one of your prototype's instagram photos, I'd say the numerals can be squeezed in between hash marks. But it would be tight.
My suggestion is to either use a condensed variant of the font to fit the hashes or use an extended variant to fill the space slightly.

Of course, this is just my opinion - it's probably to do with the perspective on the rendering. It's not a major problem and by no means ruins the watch - a lot of other bezels have missing hashes in a similar fashion.


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## rneiman3 (May 17, 2019)

t3tan3k said:


> I really like the design - both the original and the latest incarnation. Definitely "retro diver done right"! One thing I'd change is make the 12 o'clock index more prominent, if its the same size as the rest, it almost makes it seem smaller than the rest - just a visual effect.. I shopped the latest image you posted and like it this way more - a subtle change to be sure. I also really like the cursive "Luna One" - it definitely adds to the look, but it looks like it utilizes a *cursive font* (regardless if it actually does or not), which I think is a little distracting. I'd suggest vectorizing an actual _hand-written cursive_ and using that - it will add a lot of retro "warmth" to the design.. just my 2c
> 
> t3tan3k
> 
> View attachment 13867793


The dial sorta reminds me of the NTH Devil Ray with the rectangular (chunky) indices.


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## cubdog (Jan 12, 2016)

Looking for an update.


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

cubdog said:


> Looking for an update.


Not quite sure I'm allowed to specifically plug the project too much here now according to WUD forum rules, but you can find out more information on my website as well as by following on social media 

Website: https://www.lpwwatchco.com
Instagram: @lpwwatchco
Facebook: /lpwwatchco


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Here's a nice shot showing the blue colourway - I love this shade!


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## rw93 (Apr 15, 2018)

Not a fan of all the white


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## 20chip (Aug 15, 2013)

Where do you get the case work on these done?


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## neilziesing (Feb 14, 2016)

I really like the case shape. Also I prefer the less busy minutes track and the no date variant. This would look amazing in a titanium case.


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## supawabb (Aug 27, 2007)

daves2889 said:


> Here's a nice shot showing the blue colourway - I love this shade!
> 
> View attachment 14405393


Case and bracelet design are top shelf! The Luna One needs to be a slightly smaller font, as it draws too much attention to it due to the over size.


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

that "luna one" in script would prevent me from buying this.

also, what is the size of this L2L and what movement are you going to use?


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Cheers for the feedback! The 'Luna One' script has actually been removed now, making the dial cleaner and clearer.

Movement is a Sellita SW200 and the measurements are 40mm case, 50mm L2L. The L2L wears a lot smaller that the 50mm makes it sound, more akin to a 48mm.


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## ProdCastDesign (Jul 2, 2019)

daves2889 said:


> Cheers for the feedback! The 'Luna One' script has actually been removed now, making the dial cleaner and clearer.
> 
> Movement is a Sellita SW200 and the measurements are 40mm case, 50mm L2L. The L2L wears a lot smaller that the 50mm makes it sound, more akin to a 48mm.
> 
> View attachment 14552459


Hi Dave looks nice, is the inner ring aluminating?

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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

ProdCastDesign said:


> Hi Dave looks nice, is the inner ring aluminating?
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


Thanks! 

No the inner chapter ring is not lumed. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of fully lumed chapter rings!


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

Here's a photo of the final production prototype in black. Turned out pretty well! I have very happy with the final design and the build quality 










Here's the white version too.










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## Leszek Kralka (Nov 13, 2015)

Nice


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## devmartin (Nov 27, 2017)

Came out really nice good job!

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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

looks nice. i'm on the fence about the chubby over sized hour hand


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

is this one going to be available?

will there be a no date option?


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

pIonEerOFtHeNiLe said:


> is this one going to be available?


What you're looking at there is the original LPW Luna One that is more of a one-off personal homage to my understanding. The Luna One that will come to market is the one with the angular case and rectangular indices you see above.


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## daves2889 (Nov 7, 2014)

*Watch design project. Feedback wanted!  Vintage-style diver*



Karriope said:


> What you're looking at there is the original LPW Luna One that is more of a one-off personal homage to my understanding. The Luna One that will come to market is the one with the angular case and rectangular indices you see above.


Correct! The one in the photo above is a one-off (technically two-off?) homage to the Breitling Superocean ref 2005.

Check my Instagram profile for mor window on what will be coming to market:

Https://www.Instagram.com/lpwwatchco

Or my website...

Https://www.lpwwatchco.com



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## Krispee (May 5, 2012)

daves2889 said:


> Here's a photo of the final production prototype in black. Turned out pretty well! I have very happy with the final design and the build quality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great work. You have a very clean design going on with these, and the blue in the top versions is very nice. Personally I would have liked to have seen a little more colour but that's just me. So, you have actually made these? Have you manufactured them yourself or did you sub-contract?


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

Krispee said:


> Great work. You have a very clean design going on with these, and the blue in the top versions is very nice. Personally I would have liked to have seen a little more colour but that's just me. So, you have actually made these? Have you manufactured them yourself or did you sub-contract?


As with most independents of this scale, Dave is using a contractor/ODM (I doubt he'll share with you which one as microbrands need to have their little 'secrets'). At this point I don't think he has manufactured a production batch, as far as I'm aware he's still testing the prototypes in real life and probably at this point working on sorting out the issues and preparation for the production batch, which will be offered on Kickstarter.
Follow him on Instagram for updates, or join his mailing list if you are interested in getting a Luna One!

Since the post you quoted has him referring to the ones shown as "Final production prototypes", he's most likely almost ready to launch his campaign and start taking orders.


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## Krispee (May 5, 2012)

Karriope said:


> As with most independents of this scale, Dave is using a contractor/ODM (I doubt he'll share with you which one as microbrands need to have their little 'secrets'). At this point I don't think he has manufactured a production batch, as far as I'm aware he's still testing the prototypes in real life and probably at this point working on sorting out the issues and preparation for the production batch, which will be offered on Kickstarter.
> Follow him on Instagram for updates, or join his mailing list if you are interested in getting a Luna One!
> 
> Since the post you quoted has him referring to the ones shown as "Final production prototypes", he's most likely almost ready to launch his campaign and start taking orders.


Thanks for the reply, I thought that maybe he was heading in the sub-contract route. As you have seen on my thread, my tastes tend to run towards something a little different, and this isn't different enough for me personally. I'm interested in people starting their own microbrands, not sure if that's where I want to end up but it gives me food for thought.


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## Karriope (Dec 31, 2017)

Krispee said:


> Thanks for the reply, I thought that maybe he was heading in the sub-contract route. As you have seen on my thread, my tastes tend to run towards something a little different, and this isn't different enough for me personally. I'm interested in people starting their own microbrands, not sure if that's where I want to end up but it gives me food for thought.


Unfortunately a lot of enterprising stories like LPW don't have the means to manufacture or properly engineer a watch, and even if they were able to assemble the watches (such as Horloscaphe or MKII, both independent microbrands whose founders are themselves watchmakers), they're still going to need parts suppliers...
Making a case, grinding crystals and producing ingress protection gaskets are all things that require different equipment and unless you're SEIKO you do not have all of those. That said I know of at least one microbrand that is proud to say they own machining equipment and produce their own cases, I forget their name but they're well known and were successful on Kickstarter.

One man assembly also has the disadvantage of... being slow.


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