# Hamilton Khaki Field Auto H30 calibre power reserve issue



## Miklos86 (Jul 31, 2017)

Dear All,

I have the Hamilton Khaki Field Day Date Automatic (H70505833, https://shop.hamiltonwatch.com/mens...sic-jazzmaster-day-date-auto-h70505833-1.html - ignore the text of the link, it shouldn't point to a jazzmaster). It has the H30 caliber (Hamilton caliber H-30 » WatchBase.com). Hamilton claims that it has 80 hours power reserve, one of the reasons I chose that watch.

Now, for the weekends I usually rest the watch and use a hardy G-Shoch instead for more demanding outdoor activities. On Monday mornings, I always see that the Hamilton has stopped after 25-26 hours of setting it down - its a day-date, so no mistake there, for the fourth week in a row the watch consistently shows Saturday 8-10pm. From, say Friday 6pm to Monday 8am, merely 62 hours passes, so the watch should not stop at all.

During weekdays I wear the watch for work. On Monday morning, I set the Hamilton on the atomic-synced G-Shock (quite tedious, as I have to wind through 2,5 days to get correct day-date). I also usually ride a motorcycle, so it should get plenty of movement to charge. Before I got the G-Shock I wore the Hamilton of weekends, never had any similar problem, but found out that if I didn't wear it enough, the watch has started to fo fast (~a minute a week). Moved to a house from a flat, I'm more active on weekends, my son is growing so we have more stuff to do together, I don't want the Hamilton to be a beater watch. I know I should get a watch mover thing, but with the claimed power reserve of 80h, this should not be an issue at all.

Questions:
- To people with watches of H30 movement, how is your power reserve?
- How can I improve the power reserve of the watch? I mean, can I wind it manually? Or do I have to keep flailing my wrist around like a maniac?

Otherwise I love the watch. Its clearly legible, the military style suits me very well and the color sheme is marvellous. Possibly won't be my last Hamilton, but the issue makes me doubt their in-house automatic movement.

Any impout would be appreciated.

Regards,
Miklos


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Manually wind it 40 full 360deg turns of the crown to fully charge the mainspring. The automatic winding system never winds it absolutely full - rather it maintains the existing power reserve. Your instruction booklet should say the same. 


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

That's assuming the watch has stopped. It's perfectly normal to manually wind an automatic movement despite what some WIS will say that it can wear it out or has weak keyless works etc - it does not and will not. ETA actually make a manual wind only version of the 2824 movt that is identical apart from not have the rotor and automatic bridge. 

The only harm that can come to the movement is if the parts called the reversing wheels start to stick (these parts are in the automatic bridge and are actually a clutch that disconnects the rotor from the ratchet wheel when manually winding). You can tell if this happens as you'll feel or see the rotor spinning as you wind it. Should this ever happen then do not manually wind and get it serviced. Otherwise wind away merrily. 


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

hub6152 said:


> Manually wind it 40 full 360deg turns of the crown to fully charge the mainspring. The automatic winding system never winds it absolutely full - rather it maintains the existing power reserve. Your instruction booklet should say the same.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't agree self-winders merely maintain the power reserve. My automatics (2836-2, 2895-2 and Soprod A10) all wind through routine wearing to almost the full power reserve, by measurements, 95%. Might yours be in need of service? I'd imagine lubrication issues could be a factor.

As regards hand-winding an automatic, many of us feel it's a concern for the ETA 2824-2 and variants. There are some 'interesting' pix in various threads of 2824 parts worn through hand winding (the automatic and handwind movements' winding parts are not all made of the same material, auto has some brass parts that are steel on the HW).

Of course YMMV.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

whineboy said:


> I don't agree self-winders merely maintain the power reserve. My automatics (2836-2, 2895-2 and Soprod A10) all wind through routine wearing to almost the full power reserve, by measurements, 95%. Might yours be in need of service? I'd imagine lubrication issues could be a factor.
> 
> As regards hand-winding an automatic, many of us feel it's a concern for the ETA 2824-2 and variants. There are some 'interesting' pix in various threads of 2824 parts worn through hand winding (the automatic and handwind movements' winding parts are not all made of the same material, auto has some brass parts that are steel on the HW).
> 
> Of course YMMV.


That's a fair point in that the manual wind 2804 etc does have a steel ratchet wheel (this is the wheel that connects to the barrel) rather than brass given that a manual wind needs winding every day pretty much. However any properly maintained 2824 can and should withstand less frequent winding, and the instruction books supplied with them will tell you to manually wind 30-40 turns if the mainspring has discharged. The emphasis being properly maintained!!

The reason that the teeth can strip from the ratchet wheel (which is the wear you refer to) usually only happens if the automatic bridge reversing wheels (these are clutches that allow the hand winding) are dirty and sticking hence my warning about feeling or seeing the rotor spinning when winding as that indicates one reversing wheel has stuck and it's only a matter of time before the other does the same so it's a very clear warning sign!

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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

hub6152 said:


> That's a fair point in that the manual wind 2804 etc does have a steel ratchet wheel (this is the wheel that connects to the barrel) rather than brass given that a manual wind needs winding every day pretty much. However any properly maintained 2824 can and should withstand less frequent winding, and the instruction books supplied with them will tell you to manually wind 30-40 turns if the mainspring has discharged. The emphasis being properly maintained!!
> 
> The reason that the teeth can strip from the ratchet wheel (which is the wear you refer to) usually only happens if the automatic bridge reversing wheels (these are clutches that allow the hand winding) are dirty and sticking hence my warning about feeling or seeing the rotor spinning when winding as that indicates one reversing wheel has stuck and it's only a matter of time before the other does the same so it's a very clear warning sign!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not trying to ignite WW4, but this older thread notes Al Archer, a respected watchmaker, said that 2824 hand winding wear goes way beyond the reverser wheels. For the benefit of the OP, my point is that I wind my 2836 5 turns or so in a wear cycle (about 4-7 days), once it is ticking the autowind is enough to charge up the mainspring. I am cautious and prefer not to overstress the weak links.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/hand-winding-khaki-field-auto-eta-2824-2-a-1896090-2.html

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## Miklos86 (Jul 31, 2017)

hub6152 said:


> That's assuming the watch has stopped. It's perfectly normal to manually wind an automatic movement despite what some WIS will say that it can wear it out or has weak keyless works etc - it does not and will not. ETA actually make a manual wind only version of the 2824 movt that is identical apart from not have the rotor and automatic bridge.
> 
> The only harm that can come to the movement is if the parts called the reversing wheels start to stick (these parts are in the automatic bridge and are actually a clutch that disconnects the rotor from the ratchet wheel when manually winding). You can tell if this happens as you'll feel or see the rotor spinning as you wind it. Should this ever happen then do not manually wind and get it serviced. Otherwise wind away merrily.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for the heads up. Regarding manual winding. If I turn the crown "down" (the upper side of the crown turns towards me), it can be turned easily among a slight ticking noize. However, to the other side, the crown turns much harder and I also hear some noise from inside the watch. Looking through the back of the watch, if I try to wind it that way, the big rotor always starts to move, but can't make a full turn. Based on this, I reckon I should take it to the service. Not an easy decision as there are no official Hamilton services within my country. I bought the watch via Jomashop.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Miklos86 said:


> Thank you for the heads up. Regarding manual winding. If I turn the crown "down" (the upper side of the crown turns towards me), it can be turned easily among a slight ticking noize. However, to the other side, the crown turns much harder and I also hear some noise from inside the watch. Looking through the back of the watch, if I try to wind it that way, the big rotor always starts to move, but can't make a full turn. Based on this, I reckon I should take it to the service. Not an easy decision as there are no official Hamilton services within my country. I bought the watch via Jomashop.


Winding towards you does nothing, the keyless works slips to protect the click element that prevents the mainspring from unwinding. Turning the crown away from you winds the mainspring.

I agree something sounds wrong and a trip to the watchmaker is in order. Good luck!

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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

The clicking when winding towards you is just the ratchet. That's normal. Turning away from you will feel resistance. If the rotor just moved a little that's normal especially if the mainspring is fully charged. It's only if it actually spins when winding is there a problem. 


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## AlaskaJohnboy (Dec 25, 2016)

Miklos,

I have the PanEurop with he same movement. I got it in December 2016 (Happy 50th B-Day!) and it has been running pretty much since then.

I find the power reserve does not always wind up fully if I do not move much during the day.

When I al walking around the classroom on Fridays I get it to last all weekend, but if I am at my desk all day then it has died a couple times over the weekend.

It does have the good 80 hours, but does not always wind itself fully just on the wrist.

Just my experience, but I like it.

Thanks
John in Alaska


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## Miklos86 (Jul 31, 2017)

Thank you all for your input. I got encouraged that the rotor moves only a little, it doesn't actually spin, so I gave the watch a good winding on Friday. Guess what, it kept on going all weekend. I'm still a bit worried about the wear caused by the "extra" winding, but it seems to me that you have explained/solved the problem. Thank you again.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

Miklos86 said:


> Thank you all for your input. I got encouraged that the rotor moves only a little, it doesn't actually spin, so I gave the watch a good winding on Friday. Guess what, it kept on going all weekend. I'm still a bit worried about the wear caused by the "extra" winding, but it seems to me that you have explained/solved the problem. Thank you again.


Don't worry too much. You're only likely to wind it a few times a month and this will not cause any premature wear and tear. It's quite normal to do that. Wear it well and enjoy.

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## fastfras (Jul 23, 2014)

Older Seiko watches did not come with a winding system. The need a good 5 minutes of gently moving the watch (hold it in your hand not, on your wrist) back and forth, you'll feel it charge up the mainspring. Don't do it too hard or fast. The H30 should last a long weekend with reserve to spare.


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

I wonder how many commentators have ever actually taken apart a watch movement and know exactly how it works! 


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

hub6152 said:


> I wonder how many commentators have ever actually taken apart a watch movement and know exactly how it works!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very very few, I think. I've regulated several of mine, but never done any other work, my hands are too unsteady.

But I expect many of us understand the general theories of watchmaking and operation - there are tons of videos around showing how the modern mechanical movement operates and explaining how the parts cooperate (the pallet fork/escapement wheel amazes me, it seems so kludgey yet it works so well).

I'm not sure having the experience of a watchmaker is required to comment on watch performance, though. How many auto reviewers are mechanics, how many art critics are artists?


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## Barry H (Oct 1, 2008)

hub6152 said:


> I wonder how many commentators have ever actually taken apart a watch movement and know exactly how it works!


Not many I should think. But some of us have been at this game a long time, have a genuine interest and know a thing or two. How many general practice doctors have actually done surgery?


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## hub6152 (Feb 17, 2014)

My intention wasn't to offend, more questioning the polar opposite replies from some! The OP probably is still none the wiser as to what he should actually do! 

So for those less knowledgable here's the reason why, if a watch has powered down and has stopped, you should manually wind it. 

In order for the balance wheel to obtain the proper degrees of amplitude the mainspring needs to be wound at least to half power (15-20 turns of the crown). If the amplitude is low that leads to the movt running faster than it should do as the balance wheel isn't swinging back and forth to the optimal extent and a shorter swing has the effect of shortening the balance spring hence running faster. 

When fully wound the H10 has 80 hours of power reserve if not worn. If worn daily then, after initial winding, further winding won't be necessary as the auto mechanism will maintain the power reserve. If worn in rotation a couple of times a week then when not worn it might well power down and stop requiring winding again and the frequency of winding like this will not shorten the life of any parts or create any unnecessary wear. It's designed to be manually wound when needed. Shaking it isn't the recommended way to initiate an ETA unlike an old Seiko! 


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