# Need wrist shots of 38mm 36000 VPH



## sierra11b

After careful consideration of every Chronograph from the Daytona to GO Senator, JLC Master Chrono, Breitling Cal 01 and everything in between, I am seriously considering this watch for my 6.5" wrist... 

Problem is it doesn't seem like too many people have the 38mm version as there doesn't seem to be too many pictures floating around, especially wrist shots. :think: 

I am also hoping for some feed back and pictures of the bracelet. Pictures of the bracelet seem even harder to come by than the watch!

Any pictures or impressions of this watch (and bracelet) would be greatly appreciated!

-Eric


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## LouS

Eric, I have yet to see any of these in stores Stateside. The only person I know who has one ordered his at Baselworld last year. There are some press photos kicking around the french Zenith forum, but I have yet to see more than very scattered real "End-user" wristshots and the like.


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## sierra11b

Figures. 

Does that mean a stateside AD wouldn't be able to order the watch?

Same. The only pictures I've seen were of old Baselworld press photos and on Hodinkee, otherwise nothing in the wild or reviews from actual owners of the watch.


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## LouS

The watch is available to US customers and can be ordered through an AD.


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## sierra11b

Good to know and thank you. Although I do want to see what Basel unfolds first, maybe I'll be the first to do a thorough review of this watch for us?


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## LouS

I'd be eager to read it. Which version are you aiming for - the hallmark Zenith tri-color or one of the others? I've been sorely tempted by the grey one - only the siren-song of vintage has stopped me from ordering.


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## sierra11b

LouS said:


> I'd be eager to read it. Which version are you aiming for - the hallmark Zenith tri-color or one of the others? I've been sorely tempted by the grey one - only the siren-song of vintage has stopped me from ordering.


The tri-color because I think it pays hommage to the A386 nicely and the 38mm won't go out of style. Plus I think the whole look is really cool looking.

Rest assured I understand all about going vintage and I'm sure if I get this i'll be inclined to get a vintage El Primero... I've done it with GMTs 116710 => 16710 => 16750 => 1675.


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## jmos

like this one?

(courtesy of "alan.ford")

if you google "zenith trentotto orologi passione" you will find a lot of wrist shots - most of them are the "o&p special edition" though.

hope that helps,

hannes

edit: as for the bracelet, i have seen one picture of the 38mm version with the steel bracelet and (unfortunately, from my point of view) it's all polished, unlike the 42mm version which has brushed centre links (or the other way around).


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## sierra11b

jmos said:


> View attachment 617837
> 
> 
> like this one?
> 
> (courtesy of "alan.ford")
> 
> if you google "zenith trentotto orologi passione" you will find a lot of wrist shots - most of them are the "o&p special edition" though.
> 
> hope that helps,
> 
> hannes
> 
> edit: as for the bracelet, i have seen one picture of the 38mm version with the steel bracelet and (unfortunately, from my point of view) it's all polished, unlike the 42mm version which has brushed centre links (or the other way around).


Thank you for the pictures! Looks plenty substantial still for 38mm.

All polished, eh? Nothing some tape and a satin bar couldn't fix. |>


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## v76

I have a pre-Nataf Class 4 El Primero whose case measures 38mm, too. I imagine the new one can't be all that different (except for the lugs) ...








My wrist circumference/perimeter varies between 6.9" and 7.1".


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## sigma089

I'm also considering this model (also 6.5" wrist). I tried it on with the brown leather strap at a watch fair and really liked it then. Eventually I didn't pull the trigger because I wasn't sure if I shouldn't get it on the bracelet instead. Unfortunately the Zenith booth didn't have one available in that combination, so I walked away. 
Recently I found this picture, which, in my opinion at least, really shows that in combination with the polished case the watch on bracelet looks WAY too shiny. I will try to get another chance to try the strap version on at an AD (hopefully one in driving distance will have it in stock) to make up my mind completely. I have come to doubt the subdial overlap lately and hope that on a second look I will forget all about this and will still be as thrilled once it's on my wrist as I was the first time. Here's the picture, it's the grey version.


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## sierra11b

Thank you for the feedback and picture.

Let's dwell on the overlap, shall we? Because it's what's keeping me from pulling the trigger, too! 

I think we can all agree that at first glance the overlap is a problem otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. But doesn't the El Primero minute sub-dial advance every minute and not in a sweeping motion? Wouldn't that make it more an aesthetics decision vs function? :think:

I can imagine after a few days of ownership I'd be comfortable enough to reference the minute hand accurately knowing where the hand lays at every minute, in six months at simple glance even.

Still not the most practical application but very doable nonetheless. I sometimes think other chronos are difficult... take the Daytona minute sub-dial and how the 10 counts for 3 indices. That really bugs me too!


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## D N Ravenna

I think you are correct and would figure it out. I have a couple of watches with only 5 minute increments, and a few with sub-second dials with 15s increments. The human eye is quite discerning and you figure it out quickly. 

Now, you may not like that, and that is fine. But if you like the style of the watch, I think you will figure it out very quickly.

;-)

Dan


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## sierra11b

D N Ravenna said:


> I think you are correct and would figure it out. I have a couple of watches with only 5 minute increments, and a few with sub-second dials with 15s increments. The human eye is quite discerning and you figure it out quickly.
> 
> Now, you may not like that, and that is fine. But if you like the style of the watch, I think you will figure it out very quickly.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Dan


Great words, Dan!


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## mmi

Hi,

ive been reading the forum for a while, looks like its time to contribute.b-)

I bought the 38mm three-color dial version with metal bracelet. It was a little difficult to get one, preordered in August, delivered by Zenith 2 days before christmas eve.

The watch is really great - in fact, my other watches are in their boxes since then, waiting for wrist time. What I like most are the details the dial produces under different light conditions. Sometimes you think its a complete different watch.

The metal bracelet is very polished, so is the entire watch. While it does not bother me with the case at all, the watch with the metal bracelet together is too much bling for me. I mainly got the bracelet for resale purposes (hopefully not!), it got replaced with a 3rd party black leather strap at the day of purchase.

The 38mm diameter fits my wrist very good. I have an Omega AT mid size, which has a slightly larger diameter (39mm), but the Zenith has more "presence" (larger case opening, dial is busier etc.).

Regarding the subdial overlap: had my concerns before i first got the chance to inspect the watch closely at the dealer. Sure, its guestimating seconds between 15 and 30, and somewhat chrono minutes too. I rarely use the chrono, and then only for small time frames (seconds up to some minutes). The seconds sub dial has not much practical relevance to me either. YMMV, of course.

Another subtle thing is readability of the seconds sub dial, depending on the angle of light. Because the sub dial is bright grey on metal, and the markers on the dial are white, it can be hard to spot the markers on the subdial under certain light conditions, its then just a circle full of reflections. As i wrote before, i like this way of changing appearance, just something more to consider for others.

In general, and In my humble opinion, the dial is much more balanced at the 38mm version, compared to watches with a larger diameter. Last summer, i tried the Striking 10th. The 3 sub dials are too densely aligned; too close to each other compared to the entire dial. The 38mm dial has the perfect balance. Date window between 4 and 5 adds to that 

Overall, the watch is very accurate, average of +2s/d, +4s/d peak.

Let me know if you need additional wrist shots (will take some time though, unless smartphone photos are ok).


-Christian


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## jmos

Christian, i'd love to see some wrist shots with and without the metal bracelet- even if taken with smartphone. Thanks in advance! Hans


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## sierra11b

Thank you for that post Christian and I would love to see some photos regardless of camera. 
Would also love if you can get a picture of the bracelet and the clasp as I am considering brushing the outsides for that PCL look. 

Questions for you... 

1) Is my assumption about the minute sub-dial correct in that because the minute hand on the minutes sub-dial advances once every stroke of 60seconds that you begin to memorize the minute sub-dial hand for quick reference in the overlapped portions? 

2) What's the lug width for straps?

As for the seconds sub-dial, having limited legibility in certain light isn't a deal breaker on this watch as it's just a heartbeat indicator for me.


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## mmi

Hi,

because bracelet photos are most wanted, i will take them at the weekend. The bracelet is in the watch box back home  I hope photos of the bracelet, not mounted to the watch, are ok. Right now, I dont want to put the bracelet back on.

The lug width is 19mm.

It is correct that the chrono minute hand advances once every 60 seconds. I dont think that you can memorize the minute markers easily though. 16 and 22 are the markers that are still visible, everything inbetween is guessing, even if the hand advances only once. So 5 markers are missing, there are no references at the hours sub dial you can mis-use as a point to recognize the chrono minute quickly. I never tried, to be honest, it would need some practice. I think i can make some pictures in 1 minute steps if this is what you are after 

In addition, there are other things that make this process more difficult. The central hands are relatively large in width, and they will cover this overlap area entirely at around xx:20 to xx:23, for example. Of course, this applies to chrono hours also, and in general is not a problem specific to this dial.


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## sierra11b

mmi said:


> Hi,
> 
> because bracelet photos are most wanted, i will take them at the weekend. The bracelet is in the watch box back home  I hope photos of the bracelet, not mounted to the watch, are ok. Right now, I dont want to put the bracelet back on.
> 
> The lug width is 19mm.
> 
> It is correct that the chrono minute hand advances once every 60 seconds. I dont think that you can memorize the minute markers easily though. 16 and 22 are the markers that are still visible, everything inbetween is guessing, even if the hand advances only once. So 5 markers are missing, there are no references at the hours sub dial you can mis-use as a point to recognize the chrono minute quickly. I never tried, to be honest, it would need some practice. I think i can make some pictures in 1 minute steps if this is what you are after


Interesting... I was thinking more along the lines of referencing the opposite side of the sub-minutes dial. For example, if the hand lines up with 10minutes it's at 20minutes, if it lines up with 12 it's at 18 and so forth. Yeah... those wide hands at the apex of all three dials isn't the best... is it easy to read underneath with a wrist tilt?

Pictures of the bracelet alone would be fine.

Your help is much appreciated and thank you for all the other information. |>|>


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## mmi

Ah, got it. Yes, you can extrapolate by looking at the opposite side. Just tested it, works surprisingly well, there is enough space between the markers to spot the difference (subdial scale is broad enough).


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## sierra11b

mmi said:


> Ah, got it. Yes, you can extrapolate by looking at the opposite side. Just tested it, works surprisingly well, there is enough space between the markers to spot the difference (subdial scale is broad enough).


Fantastic! :-!


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## Fantasio

I am finding this watch more and more appealing. 

Can anyone tell following dimensions:
- thickness
- height (measurement between lug tips)

Thanks in advance.


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## mmi

Hi,

as promised, a couple of pictures.

Wristshot (My wrsit is about 17cm):









Edge of the lugs:









Dial:









Closer look from the side, everything is polished:









Again, "cut off" lugs:









The beautiful movement (sorry for blurry picture):









3 shots of the well crafted bracelet; its the middle part that is polished:

























The final link of the bracelet (almost forgot):









Shots of the chrono minute subdial in the overlap area, 17 - 20 minutes:


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## LouS

Awesome pics! Looks really good on the wrist, and a good size.

(Now someone please tell me why Zenith has to do the subdial overlap-to-illegibility on a watch the same size as the original?)


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## sierra11b

Thank you so much for taking those pictures! 

The Extrapolate method to reference the sub-minutes dial works like a charm! Thanks for those pictures as well!


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## jmos

wonderful! thank you very much for your effort! i've been waiting to find these kind of pictures for quite a while now. it looks great on your wrist!


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## v76

Very nice pics of a handsome watch, looks great on your wrist, too. Thanks for sharing!

Now, if they could get rid of the subdial overlap and have 5 subdivisions for every minute/second, that watch would be perfect!


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## sierra11b

v76 said:


> Now, if they could get rid of the subdial overlap and have 5 subdivisions for every minute/second, that watch would be perfect!


Take a look at the last series of 4 pictures.

He deliberately took pictures of the sub-minute hand at 17 minutes to 20 minutes. Try not to focus on the hand so much but look at the dial as a whole while referencing the opposite side of the dial. Notice how easy it is to see where the minute hand actually rests? You know it's at 17 in the first picture because that position is two minute indices away from the 15 minute plot judging by looking at 13.

My point is the chrono minutes and seconds are still functional despite the design. Now the sub-second dial not so much because it sweeps... but as a dive watch guy I always just use continuous seconds as a sign the watch is still alive. I cannot recall a time I needed an accurate 60 second count down of anything.


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## v76

Yes, you can extrapolate I do agree. But your brain takes a few more seconds to process that information to get the count of minutes right. Why would a watch manufacturer like Zenith ruin legibility in favor appearance? Zenith has always been about its movements and no-nonsense approach to legibility and timing throughout their history. If I look at the original El Primero designs between 1969-1973, I would prefer to have any (if I had my way, all of them) of those instead of the modern designs. Look to those watches to see how the overlap doesn't reduce legibility one jot.



sierra11b said:


> Take a look at the last series of 4 pictures.
> 
> He deliberately took pictures of the sub-minute hand at 17 minutes to 20 minutes. Try not to focus on the hand so much but look at the dial as a whole while referencing the opposite side of the dial. Notice how easy it is to see where the minute hand actually rests? You know it's at 17 in the first picture because that position is two minute indices away from the 15 minute plot judging by looking at 13.
> 
> My point is the chrono minutes and seconds are still functional despite the design. Now the sub-second dial not so much because it sweeps... but as a dive watch guy I always just use continuous seconds as a sign the watch is still alive. I cannot recall a time I needed an accurate 60 second count down of anything.


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## D N Ravenna

v76 said:


> Yes, you can extrapolate I do agree. But your brain takes a few more seconds to process that information to get the count of minutes right. Why would a watch manufacturer like Zenith ruin legibility in favor appearance? Zenith has always been about its movements and no-nonsense approach to legibility and timing throughout their history. If I look at the original El Primero designs between 1969-1973, I would prefer to have any (if I had my way, all of them) of those instead of the modern designs. Look to those watches to see how the overlap doesn't reduce legibility one jot.


We are talking about design and tastes here. Also how you envision spending your disposable income.

I have a Sinn EZM1. A friend of mine said he could never enjoy a watch without a running seconds hand. He added you could not be precise about setting the time as well and on and on. I looked at the watch and said "Don't worry. I won't ask you to buy it if I decide to sell it.".

The watch still looks fine to me. His points were valid to him. It's how we decide to spend our money.

Dan


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## v76

That is true, Dan. I should have perhaps worded it a little differently - as long as someone's happy with the design/legibility, they should definitely go for it.

I do vacillate a little regarding the desirability of the current models (to me), but I feel that the overlap could have been handled a lot better (or no overlap at all) given that quite a few El Primero cases in the past were of the same size (38mm). It is perhaps more of a personal opinion rather than a statement made as a fact.



D N Ravenna said:


> We are talking about design and tastes here. Also how you envision spending your disposable income.
> 
> I have a Sinn EZM1. A friend of mine said he could never enjoy a watch without a running seconds hand. He added you could not be precise about setting the time as well and on and on. I looked at the watch and said "Don't worry. I won't ask you to buy it if I decide to sell it.".
> 
> The watch still looks fine to me. His points were valid to him. It's how we decide to spend our money.
> 
> Dan


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## mmi

Im glad you like the pictures.

I think we all can agree that Zenith should not have tampered with the design/amount of overlap, at least i cannot name a valid reason that make the new design superior to the old one.

On the flip side, its not as bad as the pictures on the website or in the catalog indicate. Just a flaw. And it all comes down to you personally whether you

- dont care
- work around it
- life with it, with nagging doubts that rob your well deserved sleep
- ignore it/withstand the urge to get one and move on

If Zenith would present a new model with a 100% identical dial from the original series, i could cancel the life-task of hunting down a A386 (sort of).  From this angle, thankfully, this watch is different.


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## sierra11b

Not to change the subject but I am really about ready to pull the trigger on this watch from the AD but must ask... 

Is Zenith customer service as bas as I have been reading? What gives?


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## v76

From what I've heard, the LVMH service center in NJ isn't as good as it should be (from the complaints I read on here and elsewhere). However, if you can contact HQ service at Le Locle (which would be the option for me in Denmark), that would be fine ... I've heard only good things about the Le Locle service.



sierra11b said:


> Not to change the subject but I am really about ready to pull the trigger on this watch from the AD but must ask...
> 
> Is Zenith customer service as bas as I have been reading? What gives?


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## sierra11b

v76 said:


> From what I've heard, the LVMH service center in NJ isn't as good as it should be (from the complaints I read on here and elsewhere). However, if you can contact HQ service at Le Locle (which would be the option for me in Denmark), that would be fine ... I've heard only good things about the Le Locle service.


Well it is NJ. :roll:

So can anyone send to the mothership at Le Locle or will they forward it back to the NJ center after realizing i'm from the western USA?


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## LouS

sierra11b said:


> Well it is NJ. :roll:
> 
> So can anyone send to the mothership at Le Locle or will they forward it back to the NJ center after realizing i'm from the western USA?


My impression has been that they don't take care of much in NJ. Almost all the work beyond the simplest cleaning goes back to Le Locle.


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## ciaca

My wrist is 7"

Regards


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## Fantasio

Couldn't resist temptation and finally pulled the trigger, here's a couple of quick wristshots.



Fantasio said:


> I am finding this watch more and more appealing.


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## Hartmut Richter

Congratulations - one of the best looking modern Zeniths you can get!

Hartmut Richter


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## franco60

ciaca said:


> View attachment 703291
> 
> 
> View attachment 703292
> 
> 
> My wrist is 7"
> 
> Regards


Just ordered the 38mm fair my barely (if at all) 7"+ wrist. This is the best wrist shot showing the proportion of the watch and is helpful. At 7"ish, I'm ine if the borderline guys, but I've read so many happy 38mm owners, I'm now comfortable with the choice. While anecdotal and nit very scientific, I've also not seen many 38mm come up in the secondary market. It seems (seems) that may be an indicator that guys are simply buying them and holding them with no need to flip due to size disappointment. I know full well the visual impact when the dial is almost edge to edge with slim bezel is that it wears larger. Seems the lug to lug width of 46mm doesn't hurt in terms of being substantial on the wrist. Also, my passion for vintage pieces simply wouldn't let me NOT order the 1969 in its original size. Not to offend 42 owners, and I could well be one, who knows, but the fact the same movement (essentially) has been used them many years, is just a turn on from get go.

Wish me me luck as I sit on my hands for 3-4 week delivery (fortunately I'm out of town a lot which will make it easier). For now, just have to drool at online pics and wait. Any reassurance as to the 38mm being right on for my 7" wrist would be comforting. Thanks guys.


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## franco60

Given the consternation of so many about the 38mm size, it'd really be nice and save a lot of research for posters of wrist shots to also mention their wrist size. Just a thought. 

Also, when mine comes in I'm going to post up some comparison pics of the Zenith EP 1969 next to other easily known watches of similar size. Again, just a thought to help others grappling with this issue. After all, more of us are ordering online than walking in an AD and $5K is a princely sum to drop on basis of online pics.


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## franco60

ciaca said:


> View attachment 703291
> 
> 
> View attachment 703292
> 
> 
> My wrist is 7"
> 
> Regards


Just ordered the 38mm fair my barely (if at all) 7"+ wrist. This is the best wrist shot showing the proportion of the watch and is helpful. At 7"ish, I'm ine if the borderline guys, but I've read so many happy 38mm owners, I'm now comfortable with the choice. While anecdotal and nit very scientific, I've also not seen many 38mm come up in the secondary market. It seems (seems) that may be an indicator that guys are simply buying them and holding them with no need to flip due to size disappointment. I know full well the visual impact when the dial is almost edge to edge with slim bezel is that it wears larger. Seems the lug to lug width of 46mm doesn't hurt in terms of being substantial on the wrist. Also, my passion for vintage pieces simply wouldn't let me NOT order the 1969 in its original size. Not to offend 42 owners, and I could well be one, who knows, but the fact the same movement (essentially) has been used them many years, is just a turn on from get go.

Wish me me luck as I sit on my hands for 3-4 week delivery (fortunately I'm out of town a lot which will make it easier). For now, just have to drool at online pics and wait. Any reassurance as to the 38mm being right on for my 7" wrist would be comforting. Thanks guys.


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## lightspire

I like my 1969!









Here's another up-close photo on a friends wrist:


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## neueziel

these watches are gorgeous, what's resale like for a basic 38 mm


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## alex79

lightspire said:


> I like my 1969!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another up-close photo on a friends wrist:


Really love that version  

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## o0juny0o

is that an black leather strap aftermarket or oem? i thought this particular model comes in brown only


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## Seamaster5

I have a small wrist and to be honest with you the 38mm is perfect even if your wrist is larger than what you had mentioned.


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## Seamaster5

Here is the watch on my wrist


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