# Ball Watch Value Retention



## ctujack

As someone who has seen around a dozen Ball watches over the last few years, I've followed the brands steady growth in to a fairly well regarded watch brand, where they can compete on a quality pov with watches costing a lot more. 
What I had hoped for being a serial flipper, was that I would start to see the watches hold their value a little better as the brand got more well known. This does not seem to be the case, and as with so many other brands, moving a watch on, will mean taking a sizeable hit and this factor may well see me thinking a bit more about about my next watch, which will more than likely be the new Night Train.


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## samanator

Short term I do not know many brands other that certain Rolex models that don't take a big hit. Since most flips (not all) I see on the forum are to fund the next or an already coming watch or credit card payment speed is mostly a factor. Not a great influence on keeping a set value. BNIB watches have the best for each brand. Even based of the TZ factor a sized bracelet drops condition (and price) by a point or two and more wear drives things down more(how many have seen completely out in left field TZ claims) . Being a member here means you generally have a good idea what things cost new. Even if you did not buy it at that price it is always factored into every used sale here. Being a Sales Corner mod I can tell you most resales on the private seller side here at WUS are at 55-60% of retail. Probably the best value retention (other than certain Rolex's) are the lower end Seiko like 007 and Monsters that generally see a greater than 80% value retention. Ball is generally at or above average.


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## tomsimac

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

I have always wanted a Ball. When I bid, I lose as the nicer looking ones seem to sell fast. Perhaps it is the sellers fault, not waiting for the right offer. I saw one watch that sold in minutes go, and thought, what the????

so, maybe, just maybe we need to hold back and not take the first offer, exempt as the mod said, some need quick cash

I know a Ball will be in my court someday.


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## mick arthur

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

I have been in the situation Samanator describes many times; having to get rid of a watch no matter the cost to fund an incoming purchase. On my last three sales I was more patient, and the watches sold at what I would consider true market (WUS market) and not fire sales. WUS has many potential buyers at all prices, low, market, and above market.


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## djy74

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

You also need to take into consideration the appeal certain brands and even models bring. Whether it is Ball or any other, price can be dictated by how much someone really wants that certain watch. 
Another point is if someone is a serial flipper (I'm on that list ;-) ), the most cost effective way of buying watches is to always purchase from the secondary market. More than likely, you will find that watch somewhere, at some time, unless you want it right then and there. If you go through the secondary market, you may easily recoup at least 75% if not more of your investment. 
-Dan


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## mick arthur

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

The only watches I know of that hold their value or increase in value are certain Rolexs (as pointed out by Samanator above), and my understanding is that this is due to Rolex keeping standards around price and supply. As you point out, watches are not investments, with the exception of certain historically significant pieces (e.g. Paul Newman's Rolex Daytona) or some Patek's which go for $$$$$$ at auction. I don't think Ball can really do much to increase the secondary market price for their watches. I do think many used watches for sale on WUS, that are correctly priced, hold their value over at least a year; I know that's not saying much, but I have bought watches and sold them for what I paid 6 months to one year later. I have only been into mechanical watches for a couple years though, so who really knows how I will fair long term with the value of my watches.


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## samanator

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

Note to all. Let's keep this on topic and not discuss specific Ball AD policies, service or pricing. I can see this thread going outside the rules here, but I left it if we can stay within the guidelines.


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## timefleas

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

"Ball watch Deprecation!!" I thought this was going to be a wild free for all, where anything goes!

But all aspersions aside, Ball depreciates as rapidly as just about any watch, though as noted, some do better or worse, depending on model, popularity, etc. One watch that has started to stem the tide of _depreciation_, and has sold for equal to or even higher than the original asking price, is the venerable first generation Fireman, especially with the tri-color lume, so it is not all bad news. Some models were/are overpriced to begin with, and will likely never regain full value once out in the open after-sale market, while others, particularly in the low to mid range, can still recoup much of the original investment, given an appropriate period of time to "appreciate." If there is any kind of pattern to this madness, perhaps it is that the higher priced Balls do least well (in terms of recouping losses) which is either reflective of the fact that they were too high priced to begin with, or that they simply weren't all that they were cracked up to be. (Did I stay within the legal parameters here, Michael? Notice, (almost) no real deprecating remarks to boot!)

Peter


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## 92gli

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

Seems to me that one model line is worse than the others, due to the case design. I'll leave it at that.


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## hamilton314

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

I always buy a watch because I like the look, movement, company, etc.
I think a new watch purchase is almost like a car purchase. You take it out of the box and wear it and it loses value or (drive it off the lot and you lose value).
I never buy a watch with the intention of selling it, but it seems like something newer and better looking always changes my mind and I sell it to help fund a new purchase.
Rolex, Patek P. and a couple others seem to be the only one's that do not take that big new car (watch) hit.
Buy the watch with only one thing in mind....that you like it and can afford it. It is not an investment.


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## samanator

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

To Balls credit it has not taken action like some brands and having 2-3 year (or older) models at outlet stores or at select AD (generally in the Caribbean Islands) with 40-50% off of older models. We're sitting so much better than those owners. Most watch owners are not like the typically WUS member, where they have a watch sometimes for 10 plus years and are happy if they get a few bucks when they decide to get something new. Most just put it away and start on their new 10 year plus journey (this would be my dad). I think we are our own worst enemy? Given exchange rates and currency changes time is the great equalizer. I have two 4 year old watches from a specific brand that the current new price is over 100% more than what I paid new. This is one thing that works in Rolex's favor. Their models are around for long periods. Hopefully Ball will allow certain new models to have a longer life.


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## timefleas

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*



samanator said:


> ... one thing that works in Rolex's favor. Their models are around for long periods. Hopefully Ball will allow certain new models to have a longer life.


Definitely agree, while Ball does seem to hold on to some successful models for quite a while (like the Cleveland Express) they seem to drop others a little too quickly. I am all for new models, but I do think that a few of the originals, or earlier models, deserve a bit more time in the sun (such as the original tri-color lume Fireman), maybe with a new color scheme but otherwise, untouched.


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## abmw

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

I think the depreciation on Ball watches are mostly inline with most of the other large established brands. Now Anonimo on the other hand is one brand that takes a beating in resale value although I think the MSRP is way out of whack to begin with. As far as the boutique divers, the two Ocean 7's I purchased new have taken a severe beating in value cause the company is selling the new watches for much lower than the introductory prices I paid. Luckily I like the watches but if I were to sell them I'd take a huge hit.


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## SlvrSrfr

Another thing to keep in mind is the non-transferable warranty, so the buyer will be left with a watch that is essentially without warranty. Not sure how big a role this plays in the depreciation, but it has to count for something. On the other hand, I don't see too big a difference in depreciation compared to other similar-tier brands, such as Longines and Sinn.


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## streetracer101

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

Without going too far outside the box, I think its important to note that some brands like Rolex and Panerai do not stray away from retail value with discounts on new watches, whereas others do. I think it helps to strengthen the brand value in the end, although consumers don't like it.


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## jstroh

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*



streetracer101 said:


> Without going too far outside the box, I think its important to note that some brands like Rolex and Panerai do not stray away from retail value with discounts on new watches, whereas others do. I think it helps to strengthen the brand value in the end, although consumers don't like it.


Until the consumers become sellers.


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## RogerP

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

Slightly OT. I used to be a "serial flipper". New watch inbound and already looking for the _next_ watch. Buy new, catch and release a couple months (or weeks) down the road. Lotsa fun sampling the new watch market. Then one day I added up how much money I had lost, in total, on the last 10 watches I had "flipped". The figure was sobering, as it would have easily bought the kind of watch I considered out of my price range. I figured out then it was better to stop flipping and start saving. Wait a while and buy a piece I REALLY want - and will keep a while, as opposed to just grabbing the next new shiny cool object to hit the market. The enjoyment of a more expensive piece amortized over a longer period of time results in a much lower net loss.

Back OT. I'm no Ball expert, but I've owned a couple and considered more than a few as purchase options. I don't think their resale is terrible as compared to other watches, but I would put it slightly below average. As a consequence, they make a great used watch buy.

Roger


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## KHaskus

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*



92gli said:


> Seems to me that one model line is worse than the others, due to the case design. I'll leave it at that.


I've seen quite a few Ball's in my lifetime (Stop giggling!) and you are spot on, case design I feel has a TON to do with them holding their value over time. Like any timepiece you are going to have your popular styles and your not so popular styles. Thou I have seen the odd ugly piece go for a bundle if the right buyer comes along.

All in all case design has a lot to do with the overall depreciation, but again like always it's gonna be worth what someone want to pay for it.

-KH


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## mdatta

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

IMHO it seems to depend on the model and the availability. After examining watches with pulsemeters, the Ball ones were the most reasonably priced Swiss automatics on the market. Yes the Patek Philippe was great, but sorry to say I didn't have $70k. I recently bought the Ball Trainmaster Pulsemeter COSC new from an AD after looking extensively for a used one. It is the perfect watch for me, exactly what I wanted, and nobody seemed to be selling. For these reasons I would think the watch will hold its value. I love this watch!


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## timefleas

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

Of course a watch that addresses your needs maintains its value--the question is, when and if you try to sell your watch, how much of your original purchase price will be lost--sadly, in the case of the pulsemeter, because of the exclusivity of its application and the fact that Ball is only moderately established in the watch world, it will likely be at a significant loss.


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## puttslayer

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

For the most part, it seems that Ball watches do maintain a very good value. There aren't any advertised sales, so the the price of a new watch is pretty much what it is, beyond what you can work out with your AD. I've observed "the bay" for a while and while the "buy it now" is not realistic, the used auction prices have a lot of bidders and sell for prices higher than what they are going for here on the forum. All the prices are about the same everywhere you look, so I would consider it a watch that retains its "value" whatever it is worth in one place, it is pretty much everywhere. A "good" deal is about 10% max here or there; up or down, and when you want a watch in that price range, what's a few more or less couple bucks...


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## smshirk

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*



puttslayer said:


> For the most part, it seems that Ball watches do maintain a very good value. There aren't any advertised sales, so the the price of a new watch is pretty much what it is, beyond what you can work out with your AD. I've observed "the bay" for a while and while the "buy it now" is not realistic, the used auction prices have a lot of bidders and sell for prices higher than what they are going for here on the forum. All the prices are about the same everywhere you look, so I would consider it a watch that retains its "value" whatever it is worth in one place, it is pretty much everywhere. A "good" deal is about 10% max here or there; up or down, and when you want a watch in that price range, what's a few more or less couple bucks...


I recently purchased my first Ball. It had been for sale on WUS, and who knows where else, for 4 months without a drop in price. I asked about it at just the right time as the seller had just put a new bracelet on it, and had it factory serviced to move the sale along, or as he said to raise the price, but I seriously doubt that. The one thing I learned from that experience is that you will eventually get your price here on WUS if you are patient. 4 months is a long time and probably outside the norm, but it worked for this seller. Of course, if you need the sale to fund another purchase or pay a credit card bill, patience is not something you can afford. I understand that, but in spite of the obsession I try not to buy unless I have the funds already available without using credit. I am a bit disappointed with the Ball on another not. I actually do .love the watch, but I'm disappointed with the lume. I was expecting the tritium to be much brighter, although it does glow always to some extent. I'm over the disappointment, but that itch hassn't gone away and I guess its back to looking for a Depp Blue or Doxa or something that has the torch like quality I was looking for.


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## mick arthur

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

There is a certain satisfaction to good lume when you go inside after being outside on a bright day, but how long does the lume-glow really last? If you wear the Deep Blue or Doxa to bed, if you wake up at 3 am, is it still glowing? And if so, it is probably not nearly as bright as when you went to sleep.

The nice thing about Ball Watch Tritium is that you can ALWAYS count on it. If you were a miner trapped in a cave with no light, with a Ball Watch you would be able to tell what time it is no matter what, which would be somewhat comforting in an otherwise horrible situation.


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## smshirk

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*



mick arthur said:


> There is a certain satisfaction to good lume when you go inside after being outside on a bright day, but how long does the lume-glow really last? If you wear the Deep Blue or Doxa to bed, if you wake up at 3 am, is it still glowing? And if so, it is probably not nearly as bright as when you went to sleep.
> 
> The nice thing about Ball Watch Tritium is that you can ALWAYS count on it. If you were a miner trapped in a cave with no light, with a Ball Watch you would be able to tell what time it is no matter what, which would be somewhat comforting in an otherwise horrible situation.


Of course you are correct, and that is the more valuable methodology. I suppose I had just believed it would be brighter and psyched myself up for it. I am even more satisfied than I expected in other ways. I have a small wrist and the Engineer Hydrocarbon is a substantial watch even at 40MM and fits my wrist perfectly, unlike some of the 43-44-45mm that I wear. The bracelet is amazingly comfortable for a bracelet. I almost always replace stainless with straps after some period of time. I have at least 6 identical Di Modello straps in 20 and 22mm that have replaced very nice bracelets, but just weren't comfortable after wearing them for many hours. I can wear this Ball all day and not take it off when I get home, and even sleep in it as you mentioned. I always sleep with some watch on, usually a very soft leather or rubber strap though. I will buy another Ball at some point. I have to have a chrono but haven't decided on what I want yet.


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## mick arthur

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*

I am more of a strap guy as well. There are certain watches that demand OEM bracelets in my opinion, like the Rolex GMT or Deepsea, but in general, I prefer straps on my current watch collection.

I also "had" to have a chrono - my main requirement there is to have a see-through case back.


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## smshirk

The only other watch I have with a truly comfortable bracelet is datejst with jubilee and a seiko diver with stainless jubilees even moreso. I know it's an mans watch but I am an old man so.....


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## bg002h

The Lume on a ball can be very bright. You just have to let your eyes get used to the dark.

I tried to sorta simulate the difference between dark adapted eyes and not dark adapted eyes looking at my Spacemaster X-Lume on my Ball-a-thon 2012 writeup:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f239/con...ost-your-reviews-here-730056.html#post5340956


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## Hector Fdez

Enjoy reading this thread, specially as a new Ball owner. Value is so subjective that it is hard, at least to me, to engage in a value conversation. I am not too concerned about "after values". I buy watches because I like them and when I am ready to make a purchase, is because I have the money to go ahead with it. It would be hard for me to use my watches to purchase another. I don't have many, but the ones I have, were carefully thought out before buying, so they are pretty much keepers.

Good reading!

H


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## cbaytan

I've just discovered Ball watches and fell in love with some models. Anyway, since tritium is one of the most important features of the Ball watches. I was just wondering how's tritium half life affects the Ball watches value retention which is 12.5 years. Are the tritium rubes replaceable by the Ball services or any other service?


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## lvt

cbaytan said:


> I've just discovered Ball watches and fell in love with some models. Anyway, since tritium is one of the most important features of the Ball watches. I was just wondering how's tritium half life affects the Ball watches value retention which is 12.5 years. Are the tritium rubes replaceable by the Ball services or any other service?


From what I know the T-tubes replacement will be included in case of a full service (performed by Ball authorized SC only), I don't see the scenario where an independent watchmaker replaces the tubes on a Ball watch himself because the tubes are of different forms, different intensity, and it seems that in most of countries you may need an authorization to import them.


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## cbaytan

lvt said:


> From what I know the T-tubes replacement will be included in case of a full service (performed by Ball authorized SC only), I don't see the scenario where an independent watchmaker replaces the tubes on a Ball watch himself because the tubes are of different forms, different intensity, and it seems that in most of countries you may need an authorization to import them.


Thanks much for the info, but that wasn't the my intended question. We can discusss other countries other services later if needed. Let me put it this way. Suppose just in US when a gorgeous your beloved Ball watch tritium tubes dim after 15-20 years or whatever, will Ball USA have them replaced in their official service? Do Ball guarantee that? Or tritium tubes will stay as useless decorative items in the dial, after enough time? To me a mechanical watch should pass at least one generation.


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## Rocky555

cbaytan said:


> Thanks much for the info, but that wasn't the my intended question. We can discusss other countries other services later if needed. Let me put it this way. Suppose just in US when a gorgeous your beloved Ball watch tritium tubes dim after 15-20 years or whatever, will Ball USA have them replaced in their official service? Do Ball guarantee that? Or tritium tubes will stay as useless decorative items in the dial, after enough time? To me a mechanical watch should pass at least one generation.


Any lume on the watch is pretty much useless after 20 years...
At least here you can change tubes and retain the original watch look. Unlike reluming of classic illuminated watches where you loose originality of the watch by reluming it.

And as far as I know, in UK official service center charge approx 125 GBP to change the tubes.


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## lvt

Yes as Rocky said, replacing the tubes is just like reluming the super luminova paint on other watches, or you just leave it as is, not much related to the value retention.


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## cbaytan

lvt said:


> Yes as Rocky said, replacing the tubes is just like reluming the super luminova paint on other watches, or you just leave it as is, not much related to the value retention.


Thanks Rocky555 and lvt. To me replacing tritium tubes is related to Ball value. As soon as I've discovered Ball watches, I've connected Ball name with shiny tritium tubes with vibrant colors and great design. Otherwise there are lots of other watches with decent ETA movements and HQ case design. I am not trying to say a Ball watch without tritium is just an ordinary watch But from your words what I understand is there is no word from Ball company about replacing tritium tubes in the future, yet. So yes , the shiny tritium in a great looking watch is important to me.


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## pdoherty

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*



mick arthur said:


> There is a certain satisfaction to good lume when you go inside after being outside on a bright day, but how long does the lume-glow really last? If you wear the Deep Blue or Doxa to bed, if you wake up at 3 am, is it still glowing? And if so, it is probably not nearly as bright as when you went to sleep.
> 
> The nice thing about Ball Watch Tritium is that you can ALWAYS count on it. If you were a miner trapped in a cave with no light, with a Ball Watch you would be able to tell what time it is no matter what, which would be somewhat comforting in an otherwise horrible situation.


Deep Blues *are* tritium watches...


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## timefleas

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*



pdoherty said:


> Deep Blues *are* tritium watches...


????Let's stay on track if we are going to revive a long dead thread.

There are many watches that employ tritium tubes (Ball, Luminox, Mondaine, Smith Wesson, etc.), however, this thread was and is about BALL watches and their _depreciation _value--as noted above, Ball fares well in this area, as would be expected in a well made, attractive watch.


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## smshirk

*Re: Ball Watch deprecation*



mick arthur said:


> I have been in the situation Samanator describes many times; having to get rid of a watch no matter the cost to fund an incoming purchase. On my last three sales I was more patient, and the watches sold at what I would consider true market (WUS market) and not fire sales. WUS has many potential buyers at all prices, low, market, and above market.


Ive bought quite a few watches on WUS and other fora, even though my post count may not reflect it here. Most people do not complete the ratings process when buying or selling. At any rate I've noticed that those guys who stick with their price over a period of time, even weeks or in some cases months, usually get close to what they ask, assuming of course they are being reasonable.

So many as mentioned here many times, sellers need to fund another purchase or pay a CC bill and either take a lower offer or starts dropping the price after 12 hours. That's good for me as I like buying used VS new as the normal usage marks don't bother me really. Sometimes ill get one that's beat up but generally people on WUS are honest about th condition

on the other hand I would like to sell a few watches including my Ball but the low prices most people sell for are just not enough to justify selling. I've been thinking about trying the trade section to see how that goes. Maybe like minded folks there just looking to get something they might wear more. Balls are great watches and the right size but their weight keeps me from wearing it very much. For 40.5 mm my HE weighs like its 45mm. That's no necessarily a bad thing, in fact it makes me think quality, but wearing it for 12 hour days sometimes makes me put it back in the box in the morning


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## pdoherty

SlvrSrfr said:


> Another thing to keep in mind is the non-transferable warranty, so the buyer will be left with a watch that is essentially without warranty. Not sure how big a role this plays in the depreciation, but it has to count for something. On the other hand, I don't see too big a difference in depreciation compared to other similar-tier brands, such as Longines and Sinn.


I'm surprised that we're this far into the discussion without someone mentioning what is probably to blame for most of the depreciation of Ball watches - the fact the lume is a ticking clock (no pun intended) and becomes less useful after 5 years or so (debatable as to exact number of useful years). Anyone buying one used has that in the back of their minds.


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## nimbushopper

pdoherty said:


> I'm surprised that we're this far into the discussion without someone mentioning what is probably to blame for most of the depreciation of Ball watches - the fact the lume is a ticking clock (no pun intended) and becomes less useful after 5 years or so (debatable as to exact number of useful years). Anyone buying one used has that in the back of their minds.


My first Ball purchase was the 43mm fireman 7 years ago and if the lume has diminished somewhat I cannot tell as I have no problem reading it in the dark. I think the half life is something like 25 years. I have since picked up two other Ball watches(both now over 5 years old) and the lume is working fine on them. I'm not saying that the lume hasn't gone down, just that I can't notice that it has!


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## pdoherty

nimbushopper said:


> My first Ball purchase was the 43mm fireman 7 years ago and if the lume has diminished somewhat I cannot tell as I have no problem reading it in the dark. I think the half life is something like 25 years. I have since picked up two other Ball watches(both now over 5 years old) and the lume is working fine on them. I'm not saying that the lume hasn't gone down, just that I can't notice that it has!


I believe the half-life of tritium is 12 years. Which means by 20 years you're almost down by 75% (at 24 years you would be at 25% of original brightness assuming the brightness scales linearly).


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## timefleas

The physics and math of the life of tritium tubes have been discussed ad nauseam in other threads elsewhere in this forum--the point is somewhat mooted, however, when you compare even the "half" life of a tritium tube to any other kind of lume on the market, where ALL luminova formulas wear out a lot faster than ANY tritium tubes, and thus the "limited" lifespan of a t-tube certainly will not have a very large contributory effect on the depreciation of a Ball watch


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## Okapi001

The only problem that I have with the value-retention is that it's too good.;-) I'm searching for Ball 60 Seconds and cannot find anything considerably lower than MSRP.


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## Voodoo13

It should be noted, Trijicon the supplier of this lume has been in the business a long time. I've been a police officer for 20 years and have never had my night signs changed not have I needed too.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## Drop of a Hat

Microtec provides the tubes for Ball IIRC.


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## Voodoo13

Drop of a Hat said:


> Microtec provides the tubes for Ball IIRC.


That's what I meant lol. But none the less, its all similar Im assuming.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## Drop of a Hat

Voodoo13 said:


> That's what I meant lol. But none the less, its all similar Im assuming.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


Just trying to avoid misinformation.


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## ~tc~

Not at all similar. Trijicon uses fiber optics to collect available light and transmit it.

mb microtec makes GTLS tubes, which are powered.


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