# How to Become a Watchmaker (in my situation)



## HopsAndClocks (Apr 16, 2012)

I've been talking to my wife for a couple years casually about becoming a watchmaker, but it wasn't until just recently that I realized this is definitely what I want to do, and now I can't stop thinking about it. I think my situation might be a little complicated, so I will tell you and I'm hoping someone experienced can help by pointing me in the right direction.

I'm 28 years old, married to a Korean woman and living in Korea. I've lived here four years, married three of those, with a special VISA that allows me to live and work here indefinitely. I've basically settled down here and call it my home now, and I have made a career out of teaching English here. I should also mention that I have bought an apartment and a car, parts of the equation when thinking about whether to stay or move away for a long time.

I'm an American citizen, I have a BA in liberal arts and a Minor in Russian. I'm also getting my TESOL certification now (for teaching English to non-native speakers) which will be completed the end of July.

My wife thinks things are going well now, and I agree except for the fact that I know this isn't what I love to do. I can't go into it now, but just be assured I know watchmaking is what I want to do, and I'm willing to relocate and give up a career here for a chance to pursue this. I don't mean to sound corny, but it's been calling me more strongly each day to the point that it's all I can think about.

I've been looking into watchmaking schools and they are non-existent in Korea. I know there are some schools in the USA, but it seems like they don't accept many students and then it's mandatory to go to the school to take a test... which is quite impossible for me right now without taking a lot of time off of work and spending a ton of money. If I have to apply to multiple schools within the USA, then this idea becomes quiet impossible. But this is just as I understand it from my limited knowledge.

I would like more to go to Switzerland, but they too require going there to take a test before telling you if you're eligible or not. Someone told me that it's possible to go there and teach English (in Switzerland) and in during my teaching there I can attempt at applying to get in. This is a new option I hadn't thought about before.

Another option is to do an apprenticeship here in Korea. Is this a good idea? Would this be as well recognized as if I had received training from an established institution? Also, I'm not sure of the etiquette about contacting and negotiating such an arrangement with a master watchmaker. Should I pay? I've heard it should be done for free, but I can't imagine such a thing in this day and age, with the amount of time it would take on their part. Also, though I've only started the search this morning, finding watchmakers in Korea seems to be quite difficult. There are a lot of low level watchmakers who work for companies, but the number of professional, fully-trained watchmakers may prove to be very limited. But more time and searching is required to tell with this...

So, this is basically my situation. I was just hoping someone here maybe knew how best I should approach this. I'm very inexperienced with this, so any advice is welcomed!

Thank you so much for your help!


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## Archer (Apr 23, 2009)

HopsAndClocks said:


> Another option is to do an apprenticeship here in Korea. Is this a good idea? Would this be as well recognized as if I had received training from an established institution?


Hello - first off good luck with your new career. You need to know what kind of watchmaker you want to be before you can really answer the above question. Generally speaking, having a diploma or certification from a recognized insitute will go further than simply doing an apprenticeship.

So you have some options:

- factory service center as above
- working in a jewellery store (at an AD for a specific brand or many brands)
- independent watchmaker - either dealing with the public directly, or running a trade shop

In all of these the formal education will be more recognized. However many factory service centers have jobs for people who are not trained watchmakers, such as polishing, or disassembly of the watch initially. Typically the watchmaker does not "do it all" at a service center, and they focus primarily on the servicing of the movement itself.

Some stores may hire someone to work there in a limited way (probably a lot of battery swaps initially) but they may end up paying for you to go to courses. Sort of a long road to getting the education and skills you need, while making a living at the same time - an apprentice essentially.

If you plan to be an independent, then your options depend on what sort of watches you want to work on. If you plan to service mainly vintage watches, then many parts are available and access is not as big an issue as it is for modern watches. If you plan on servicing modern watches from major manufacturers, then you will likely need education/certification as part of qualifying for a parts account.

Things vary also depending on what country you are in. No simple answers, other than education is never a bad thing.

Cheers, Al


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## pithy (Aug 22, 2010)

If you can get in touch with the regional distributors (or sales directors) for Bergeon, they should have some insights into available training. If they are still open, there is Hiko and Tokyo Watch Technicum in Japan, Nic Hayek (Swatch) campuses in Shanghai & Kuala Lumpur and many of the Chinese watchmakers list a polytecnic school on their resumes. Modern distance learning hasn't reached the watchmaking trade yet. Two master instructors (who are or were school directors) have strongly advised that they want to look over the students' shoulders to assure the best educational outcome. More than one forum member is struggling with this same issue.

p


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## HopsAndClocks (Apr 16, 2012)

Archer said:


> Hello - first off good luck with your new career. You need to know what kind of watchmaker you want to be before you can really answer the above question. Generally speaking, having a diploma or certification from a recognized insitute will go further than simply doing an apprenticeship.


Archer thanks a lot for the advice. That is a very important question the I wasn't really thinking about. I guess generally I had an idea, which is that I'd like to first of all have the expertise to be able to disassemble, reassemble, fix, manufacture, fit and service watches (sorry I'm not sure on all of the lingo to describe these things.) And secondly, with having the schooling and expertise to be able to get a job initially working for a watch company that I love (ideally something like Vacheron Constantin) and eventually down the road to open my own business buying and selling watches (and of course, servicing them.)

I don't want to work changing batteries for fashion watches, but if it's a necessary step to get where I want to be I guess I'll do anything that I have to. With regards to working with vintage or modern watches, I honestly can't see it as making any difference to me as I have a love for both kinds.

It seems that you're saying it's best to have the schooling if possible... so I will keep looking into this. Things are feeling a bit overwhelming with the options and where to start or the best path to take, but in time I can hopefully find my way.

Thanks a lot for your advice :^)


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## Robb Ludwig (Aug 12, 2011)

I have two ideas for you. One would be to find a copy of the Chicago School of Watchmaking course which can be had on ebay for about $25 in its entirety. The downside of that is that it's a bit dated, and you'd be learning on your own.

The other option would be the Gem City Clock and Watch Repairing home study course. I'm doing it myself, having just started earlier this year. The only issue to work out would be that they would require an American mailing address for you. So if you could arrange that, you'd be good to go. Watch Repair School, Clock Repair School, Watch Repair Training, Clock Repair Training, Hand Engraving Training, Watch repair training

And after thinking about it a while, I can't believe I forgot the third alternative. http://www.timezonewatchschool.com/WatchSchool/ It's a great way to dive right into servicing a movement. It's not real expensive, very well documented, and gives a great first time experience in taking a movement apart, cleaning, oiling, and reassembling it.


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## emso (Jan 14, 2008)

well mate here is what i think you should do.

as i was in the same situation as you are now with no watchmaking school in country.
first you will find a good watchmaker and try to get in his office as aprentice, you will just change straps, batteries crystals etc etc, after they see if you're capable of doing it they will start giving you some other jobs (you will ask for it surely), dismantling assembling of movements and after some time whole overhaul of movements.
also as Archer said you could enroll in some importer house for watches, if they hire you and they see that you're good worker and you have "the thing"you could get a reward and they might send you on some education for the brands they import
after 3 years of being aprentice you can sign in on wostep courses in switzerland(best one is 6 months one refresher course).

wostep is recognizedby the swiss watch producers and if you buy the necesary equipment you should not have any problems with account for spare parts of the brands with the wostep certificate.

best way is if you could take the whole wostep course i think it was 3 years .

i hope i put some light on your problem mate as i did have the same one..


br
emso


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## vbomega (Jan 31, 2010)

I would suggest to the OP to become a hobbyist first and learn on your own. You will need to invest $200-$500 in tools and a few vintage watches and practice. If you can consistently overhaul movements without breaking anything, it means that you are ready to ask yourself if you want to turn it into a full time job, or just do it as a hobby.


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## James Roettger (Feb 1, 2009)

I would agree vbomega. Becoming a hobbyist watch maker will give you plenty to learn on. Get some good books, start collecting tools on ebay or wherever and have at. There is no reason if you are talented that you can't become an excellent watchmaker without the certificate. You obviously have what it takes to complete a certification later when chance provides but there is no reason you can't start learning now. I am a goldsmith and hand engraver by trade have been able to self teach watchmaking to the point where I can overhaul simple movements and build entire watches, case, dial, crown and all starting with a ready made movements. This is the level I wanted to be at and I did it on my own. I got tired of working with the local hack watch makers and decided next time I need a hack watchmaker I'll do it myself. Eventually I found my own hand adequate and preferable to the local watchmakers. You want it done right you have to do it yourself.


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## tony1951 (Jan 11, 2012)

Maybe I am too cautious... Your thoughts about changing career, given your circumstances come over as a little too whimsical to me. You have responsibilities, and you have a job, and are completing a course of training to enhance your qualifications in your previously chosen line of work. At twenty-eight and married, you may soon have additional responsibilities on the way. Watchmaking is not an easy gig to get into as a man approaching thirty, and it may not pay you well for a good while.

My most honest advice as a non-watchmaker would be to go the way suggested by Robb Ludwig, James and vbomega and develop your skills as a hobby watch maker. You have a living to earn and throwing over a steady job in pursuit of some 'grail' existence would seem reckless to me, to put it mildly. This is my honest advice as a man with sons about your age. I apologise if it sounds patronising or harsh. Your first need is a decent job that pays. Don't put that at risk. If I had a daughter your wife's age, I would be even more concerned.


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## AbslomRob (Jun 13, 2009)

A good "first step" that you can probably do where you are is to take a general course in machining. Learning how to use a micro-lathe properly goes a long way towards not only becoming a watchmaker, but also in making the road cheaper and easier. Even setting aside the value of being able to turn and replace balance staffs (probably the most common repair you'll ever need to do), there are thousands of little tools that watchmakers use for specific tasks that can be very expensive to buy (especially if you only need to use them once in a blue moon) but are almost trivial to make if you know how to machine and mill.


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## mediaokra (Jul 16, 2011)

There's always Paris (Texas): Paris Junior College | Affordable Excellence


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## HopsAndClocks (Apr 16, 2012)

tony1951 said:


> Maybe I am too cautious... Your thoughts about changing career, given your circumstances come over as a little too whimsical to me. You have responsibilities, and you have a job, and are completing a course of training to enhance your qualifications in your previously chosen line of work. At twenty-eight and married, you may soon have additional responsibilities on the way. Watchmaking is not an easy gig to get into as a man approaching thirty, and it may not pay you well for a good while.
> 
> My most honest advice as a non-watchmaker would be to go the way suggested by Robb Ludwig, James and vbomega and develop your skills as a hobby watch maker. You have a living to earn and throwing over a steady job in pursuit of some 'grail' existence would seem reckless to me, to put it mildly. This is my honest advice as a man with sons about your age. I apologise if it sounds patronising or harsh. Your first need is a decent job that pays. Don't put that at risk. If I had a daughter your wife's age, I would be even more concerned.


Thanks for the advice Tony, I think you have a very strong point. Do I want to gamble with my future or not? The age of 28 I feel is not young, but it's not old either. And though I regret not finding this passion when I was a younger man, I am thinking I have a better chance of doing this now than if I would wait another 10 years when I'm going on 40. But what you've said has really sunk in and will make me consider this even more carefully. I don't find your words harsh or patronizing, it's something I need as I must admit I'm more than a bit blinded by my dreams at the moment.


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## HopsAndClocks (Apr 16, 2012)

Robb Ludwig said:


> I have two ideas for you. One would be to find a copy of the Chicago School of Watchmaking course which can be had on ebay for about $25 in its entirety. The downside of that is that it's a bit dated, and you'd be learning on your own.
> 
> The other option would be the Gem City Clock and Watch Repairing home study course. I'm doing it myself, having just started earlier this year. The only issue to work out would be that they would require an American mailing address for you. So if you could arrange that, you'd be good to go. Watch Repair School, Clock Repair School, Watch Repair Training, Clock Repair Training, Hand Engraving Training, Watch repair training
> 
> And after thinking about it a while, I can't believe I forgot the third alternative. TimeZone Watch School Home It's a great way to dive right into servicing a movement. It's not real expensive, very well documented, and gives a great first time experience in taking a movement apart, cleaning, oiling, and reassembling it.


I'm going to look into this stuff directly, it sounds very exciting! Thanks a lot


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## HopsAndClocks (Apr 16, 2012)

emso said:


> well mate here is what i think you should do.
> 
> as i was in the same situation as you are now with no watchmaking school in country.
> first you will find a good watchmaker and try to get in his office as aprentice, you will just change straps, batteries crystals etc etc, after they see if you're capable of doing it they will start giving you some other jobs (you will ask for it surely), dismantling assembling of movements and after some time whole overhaul of movements.
> ...


Finding a watchmaker to do an apprenticeship is what I'm looking into now. Based on what everyone's said, I think I'm figuring out what I should do.

I think now what I will do is to study watchmaking on my own by ordering books, courses and tools and practice at my home as a hobby. Aside from this, I will keep looking for a watchmaker to take me on as an apprentice. If I find this, I'll be ecstatic. If not, I think I'll still be overjoyed with just being able to delve into this by myself (as a hobby.) I'll stick with my teaching career here in Korea, and then later on in a few years after learning and practicing watchmaking myself (and maybe getting experience as an apprentice) I could try getting more serious about it, by applying to schools or perhaps just happening upon a career in it some other way.

Thanks everyone for the fantastic advice... you've been really helpful!


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## emso (Jan 14, 2008)

i started working as watchmaker at age 29 if that satisfies you mate

if you like it go for it, you dont want to spend rest of your life asking how it would be if i tried.
besides you can always find a job as english teacher in korea
at least i think


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## HopsAndClocks (Apr 16, 2012)

emso said:


> i started working as watchmaker at age 29 if that satisfies you mate
> 
> if you like it go for it, you dont want to spend rest of your life asking how it would be if i tried.
> besides you can always find a job as english teacher in korea
> at least i think


I know what you mean. Well, right now I'm downloading the "Chicago School of Watchmaking Full Course", over 700 pages (according to the description). And this weekend will study watchmaking kits and tools and how to get spare parts. I'll probably search this forum to learn as much as I can about where to order these, hopefully not too big of an investment. Then will look into getting my hands on some vintage mechanical pieces, have to figure out a place to do that too.

I've come across some websites selling vintage mechanical watches in the $100-200 range (not sure of their credibility though) but I'd like to get practice restoring and servicing these watches, disassembling and reassembling (I'm really excited about doing this, lol, must seem so strange to most people.) Still looking for an apprenticeship here, and then I'll just see what happens with this. In either case I'm psyched about dipping my feet into this :^) I'll post some pics later on once I get something going


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## Robb Ludwig (Aug 12, 2011)

A quick couple of things.

About the cost of things--nothing in watchmaking is cheap. And you really do get what you pay for. From my own experience, I know that the cheap sets of watchmakers tools on ebay are just that: really crummy. I have heard someone here say the Indian screwdrivers are ok, so there are some exceptions. But don't go cheap on the tools because you'll hate them as soon as you open the box. Tweezers, too--get good ones. There's a thread here on starter tools: https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/getting-started-guide-watchmaking-tools-688276.html in case you haven't found that yet. I started with the toolkits from Time Zone Watch School and haven't regretted them.

About watches to start learning with, this is where to go cheap. Really cheap. You're going to break things. You're going to lose things. It happens. https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/beginners-mistakes-what-did-you-break-630469.html This is where I'd recommend going on ebay and buying the really inexpensive Chinese stuff. I've bought one or two for like $25 delivered. Start on a couple of those. Even though a watch is old, doesn't mean it's junk, so save the better watches for when you've gained some skills.


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## vbomega (Jan 31, 2010)

I would go with vintage Swiss watches, but I am biased. You can find sub-$10 old Swiss watches on eBay.


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## RustyMainspring (Nov 16, 2010)

Actually on age the average(mean) in my class for WOSTEP was 32. The class ahead of me was 37, so age means nothing as long as you got the money. There are a lot of watchmaker jobs but you need the ability to move for them. Working for Vacheron is going to require the best training. They won't take a self taught, you must have gone to school.


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## rbishopp (Jun 25, 2012)

Hopsandclocks thanks for starting this thread. I've had this in my head for many years as well. Thanks to everyone for their input. 
I have a few watch mechanisms on the way. Bought cheap as they don't work or only work for a short period then stop. I will need to get tools and I'm looking into that now. I agree with whoever wrote about the cheap tools. I've purchased cheap tools in the past for other tasks, bike repairs mostly, clearly you get what you pay for.
I don't plan to go into business just make it a hobby for myself. I had a local shop destroy a clock on me and figure I could ruin a hundred year clock as well as anyone, watches too, so why not. 
I am a firefighter as a profession and at 46 years old I'm really looking forward to a gig after retirement that gets me up in the morning. 

So how's that for a first post. I go back to lurking for a while. 

Thanks.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2012)

Some information here, it'd be interesting to you: https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/apprenticeship-wanted-673896.html


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## ec633 (Jan 6, 2012)

Go to the Watch School.com & start with paying $ 75 for the beginners at level 1. Build up your knowledge & go for level 2. Meanwhile , keep in touch with other schools that are available to your liking. Good luck. I believe, wages for watchmaker are not very favorable. Just to be mindful.


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## RustyMainspring (Nov 16, 2010)

The average salary a starting Watchmaking can expect is about 50k this number varies based on location do to cost of living and this is only in America.


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## emso (Jan 14, 2008)

RustyMainspring said:


> The average salary a starting Watchmaking can expect is about 50k this number varies based on location do to cost of living and this is only in America.


what about the wostep trained watchmakers you think they can get more?

thanks


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## ohnosquids (Jul 6, 2012)

I've been going to school for watch and clock repair for 3 years in Pennsylvania. So far, I know that none of the schools I have been to (2) have a proof positive way of instructing someone. If you want to work for Vacheron Constantin, you'd probably have to be trained in house by their company. I have a friend in Singapore who had to do that to work for Audemars Piguet, though he took a year long watch course to learn how to service Swiss watches first. That school is now shut down though. 

If you are starting out on repairs, an early American size 18 watch would be better to start with in my opinion. The parts are far less breakable than many others and everything is large and visible. If it has a case that isn't gold plated it should be pretty inexpensive as well. I was instructing a friend of mine who was switching from clocks to watches with medication that made his hands shake on one of those. He still broke a pivot on the balance staff accidentally, but everything else went very smoothly. Just make sure it isn't full plate or else it will be trickier than you need starting out. Moving over to a Swiss watch afterwards, since that seems to be what you'd ultimately like to work on, would be a good next step. A broken watch with a time only eta movement that you might think you'll wear can probably be found on ebay pretty easily. 

Learning yourself would be great, the Chicago School of Watchmaking has really nice lessons and pictures of necessary tools in the beginning, I believe (though not all great for starting out, and many are no longer available). Google books has some free books on watch and clock repair as well, though they are dated.


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## pithy (Aug 22, 2010)

Robb Ludwig said:


> . . . . . . . One would be to find a copy of the Chicago School of Watchmaking course which can be had on ebay for about $25 in its entirety. . . . . . .





HopsAndClocks said:


> . . . . . . Well, right now I'm downloading the "Chicago School of Watchmaking Full Course", over 700 pages (according to the description). . . . . .





ohnosquids said:


> . . . . . . . . Learning yourself would be great, the Chicago School of Watchmaking has really nice lessons and pictures of necessary tools in the beginning, I believe (though not all great for starting out, and many are no longer available). . . . . . .


uh, CSW . . . . . ;-)


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## HamiltonElectric (Jul 5, 2012)

Everyone's personal situation is different so I don't want to try to judge yours. But at the same time, I certainly don't want to discourage you from a potentially great career. I do agree with those who have recommended starting as a hobbyist, but I'm biased since that's how I started. But I did have an advantage in that I was able to get some professional training: City College of San Francisco was one of many schools offering watchmaking classes in the past who have since dropped them. I was incredibly lucky to get in under the wire; I do think that a structured class situation is a big help in mastering the basics.

But fundamentally I decided to learn the art because I couldn't find anyone reliable to turn to. I had no intention whatsoever of making it a career. It just happened. As more and more people started soliciting me, I cut back my real job to part time. After two years of part-time work I quit my 23-year career and turned my back forever, and have not regretted it for a second. I consider myself blessed to have found such a rewarding second career that I enjoy so much that every day -- including weekends -- I wake up looking forward to tearing another watch to pieces and putting it back together again. 

So, again relying only on personal experience, you may want to look at easing your way into the trade rather than making a major life-altering career change before you are absolutely certain it's where you want to go. Watchmaking is wonderfully rewarding, but there are times when it can be incredibly frustrating......... I'm sure my fellow watchmakers will agree. But overall, I would never want to go backwards again.


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## bradmcm (Jul 4, 2012)

I don't know if somebody already mentioned this, but I noticed a couple of people speaking about non certified work in the watch industry. You might was to take a look at TimeZone Watch School Home It is just 3 basic courses that only cost $75 dollar per course. You get to disassemble an ETA movement and learn how it works and how to put it back together...among other things. The only kicker is you need to shell out for some tool sets but they appear to be working with Ofrei.com (Time Zone Tool Shop) and they have put together sets you can buy for each course. You appear very serious about perusing a career in this anyhow, and you would need tools regardless of which direction youj would take in your education. Maybe this simple internet course might be beneficial for getting your feet wet in watchmaking. It might also put you light years ahead of other students in your first year of certified classes providing you choose to take them

Regards

Brad


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## Archer (Apr 23, 2009)

HamiltonElectric said:


> Everyone's personal situation is different so I don't want to try to judge yours. But at the same time, I certainly don't want to discourage you from a potentially great career. I do agree with those who have recommended starting as a hobbyist, but I'm biased since that's how I started. But I did have an advantage in that I was able to get some professional training: City College of San Francisco was one of many schools offering watchmaking classes in the past who have since dropped them. I was incredibly lucky to get in under the wire; I do think that a structured class situation is a big help in mastering the basics.
> 
> But fundamentally I decided to learn the art because I couldn't find anyone reliable to turn to. I had no intention whatsoever of making it a career. It just happened. As more and more people started soliciting me, I cut back my real job to part time. After two years of part-time work I quit my 23-year career and turned my back forever, and have not regretted it for a second. I consider myself blessed to have found such a rewarding second career that I enjoy so much that every day -- including weekends -- I wake up looking forward to tearing another watch to pieces and putting it back together again.
> 
> So, again relying only on personal experience, you may want to look at easing your way into the trade rather than making a major life-altering career change before you are absolutely certain it's where you want to go. Watchmaking is wonderfully rewarding, but there are times when it can be incredibly frustrating......... I'm sure my fellow watchmakers will agree. But overall, I would never want to go backwards again.


This is a second career for me as well, and I echo everything you have said. There's no substitute for having an instructor watching you work, checking what you are doing and how you do it, and offering advice right there on the spot. But before making that comittment, knowing that it's something that will suit you is important, because I don't think this work really suits everyone.

Cheers, Al


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## HamiltonElectric (Jul 5, 2012)

Archer said:


> But before making that comittment, knowing that it's something that will suit you is important, because I don't think this work really suits everyone.


Very true. When I did take the classes I found it interesting that for the first 3 or 4 days all of the new students were assigned to simply take apart (damaged) pocket watch movements and put them back together again. Over and over. I was bored to tears and was wondering why I was wasting valuable time on such monotony. But in retrospect it wasn't useless; it was repetitive, but I got faster and faster at it. And I now realize the main point of the exercise: easily half of the new students washed out in the first week. What had struck me as a ridiculously simple task was overwhelming for some people.

As I have said so many times to aspiring watchmakers over the years, it's not rocket science. You just need good eye-hand coordination and problem-solving skills. But some people just don't have that. Such is life. Obviously my instructor's little assignment was a simple way to weed out those who weren't suited for the trade. After that, things got serious -- and fun. It was no longer monotonous.


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## vbomega (Jan 31, 2010)

HamiltonElectric said:


> Very true. When I did take the classes I found it interesting that for the first 3 or 4 days all of the new students were assigned to simply take apart (damaged) pocket watch movements and put them back together again. Over and over. I was bored to tears and was wondering why I was wasting valuable time on such monotony. But in retrospect it wasn't useless; it was repetitive, but I got faster and faster at it. And I now realize the main point of the exercise: easily half of the new students washed out in the first week. What had struck me as a ridiculously simple task was overwhelming for some people.
> 
> As I have said so many times to aspiring watchmakers over the years, it's not rocket science. You just need good eye-hand coordination and problem-solving skills. But some people just don't have that. Such is life. Obviously my instructor's little assignment was a simple way to weed out those who weren't suited for the trade. After that, things got serious -- and fun. It was no longer monotonous.


The biggest enemy of a future watchmaker is impatience. Whenever I feel impatient I force myself to set the movement aside and do something else. Clean the tools. Tidy the bench. Or even take a break. Then take another look. And another, until I have a good action plan.
Discipline is absolutely critical. Just a few months ago I thought that I would only be able to service/fix simple movements. Calendar watches looked very complicated. And now I am very confident with any automatic, triple date complications, chronographs... It is not a rocket science. Discipline, patience, and ability to do certain things over and over again without cutting corners.


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## HamiltonElectric (Jul 5, 2012)

_Very_ well said. I'll also add my emphasis on the importance of walking away when you get impatient or frustrated. That can be a hard thing to learn. My tendency is to want to keep hammering at a problem until it's resolved, but that can be very counterproductive. It's better to step back and do something else for a while, then return with a fresh attitude and perspective. It's astonishing how often a problem that seems impossible to overcome suddenly becomes simple when you have taken time to refocus and calm down.

The other fundamental rule is never, ever force anything. If something isn't going together easily, stop and figure out why. Or take a break and come back later. There's always a reason.


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## nelsondevicenci (Nov 30, 2009)

look for information here :

Swatch Group - Home

if you enroll in the program for a 100% study with them... you don't paid anything for the 4 years carreer... let me know !


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## RustyMainspring (Nov 16, 2010)

emso said:


> what about the wostep trained watchmakers you think they can get more?
> 
> thanks


No not really,but this can again vary. Vacheron to my knowledge does not to do house training to get watchmakers they hire watchmakers. A friend of mine I know worked for Vacheron after having gone to WOSTEP and another works for Audemars and another for Ulysse Nardin . The difference is that WOSTEP trains to factory standards and is supported by almost all the Swiss watch companies. Going to WOSTEP makes you a Swiss trained watchmaker, the best kind of watchmaker. To make this short and bittersweet, if you want to be with the best you have to be best.

If you want to be a real watchmaker you need to go to school. Figure out how when I went there was people from all over at my school not just the US.


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## pithy (Aug 22, 2010)

RustyMainspring said:


> No not really,but this can again vary. Vacheron to my knowledge does not to do house training to get watchmakers they hire watchmakers. A friend of mine I know worked for Vacheron after having gone to WOSTEP and another works for Audemars and another for Ulysse Nardin . The difference is that WOSTEP trains to factory standards and is supported by almost all the Swiss watch companies. Going to WOSTEP makes you a Swiss trained watchmaker, the best kind of watchmaker. To make this short and bittersweet, if you want to be with the best you have to be best. If you want to be a real watchmaker you need to go to school. Figure out how when I went there was people from all over at my school not just the US.


Nic H., our current Tour Host, is a CIFOM graduate and started at AP. Some companies have special relationships with various schools, for instance:

Lititz and Rolex
NGH and Swatch 
BSZ Dippoldiswalde and Glashutte
Korpela & Hoffs and Ulysse Nardin

p


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## RustyMainspring (Nov 16, 2010)

Exactly, see Pithy gets it.


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## cheepskate (May 3, 2011)

I liked the story about the repetetive pocket watch pocket watch repair exercise. It brought to mind one of the things that is overlooked about the difference between a professional in a given trade and an amateur. I have worked in at least two trades which are often practiced by hobbyists, cooking and fine cabinet restoring and refinishing. I have seen some amazing work done by amateurs, but a professional can do the job in a 5th of the time and repeat the process time after time. This is the level of skill that is necessary to make a business work, you can't make money if it takes you two days to turn around a job that the market will only allow you to charge for 5 hours work on. 
Get yourself a mentor, if you are serious, as well as some education. Someone from the "old school" not a "part exchanger". One observation I have made from working in an obscure trade (restoring piano cases) that was once very common, in a way not dissimilar to traditional mechanical watchmaking, is that those that managed to hang on or get training from someone who really did it the "old school " way could charge what they liked because the skills had largely disappeared and there are very few left to do the job.


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## ohnosquids (Jul 6, 2012)

RustyMainspring said:


> Going to WOSTEP makes you a Swiss trained watchmaker, the best kind of watchmaker. To make this short and bittersweet, if you want to be with the best you have to be best.


That's pretty insulting.

Edit: It really depends on what facet of the industry the watchmaker is headed to whether a WOSTEP training program would cut it. If you just want to work for a Swiss company, it's fantastic. If you want to work on and repair anything that comes to you, there is so much more that needs to be picked up. Choosing the latter, I don't think I am any less valuable of a watchmaker because my learning choices are not the same as those the Swiss industries have available


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## tomshep (Jun 5, 2007)

I Taught myself from what I read on the net. I'm wearing a nice Constellation I restored from a wreck and I've put the JLC in the box. That was a wreck once, too. My last was a soviet chronograph which was yet another wreck. All the guys and girls at work bring me watches to mend. It is a good sideline. I've paid for my tools and get a great buzz from it. I began six years ago and have worked from Timex to Rolex. Just do it for fun and as you build your skills, people will find you. When you think you know enough, turn pro. Good luck.


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## RustyMainspring (Nov 16, 2010)

ohnosquids said:


> That's pretty insulting.
> 
> Edit: It really depends on what facet of the industry the watchmaker is headed to whether a WOSTEP training program would cut it. If you just want to work for a Swiss company, it's fantastic. If you want to work on and repair anything that comes to you, there is so much more that needs to be picked up. Choosing the latter, I don't think I am any less valuable of a watchmaker because my learning choices are not the same as those the Swiss industries have available


You're an insult to my profession if you work on watches and never went to school for it. Would you go to a self taught dentist or doctor, no you wouldn't. I work on everything that comes through the door but when people ask about my training they see it is of the highest I can get. WOSTEP highly respected in the industry around the world. Anyone who has gone through WOSTEP could work on anything coming through the door.

AWCI and NAWCC don't mean anything to Vacheron which is who he wants to work for


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## Robb Ludwig (Aug 12, 2011)

I would go to a car mechanic that's self taught. I would to a cook as well, not just one from Cordon Bleu. Not every doctor or dentist graduates at the top of their class, either. And the OP only said he'd like to work at a place "ideally something like Vacheron Constantin".

While you might be quite proud of your WOSTEP education, that's not an option that's available to everyone. If I'm not mistaken George Daniels wasn't a WOSTEP graduate, was he?


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## RustyMainspring (Nov 16, 2010)

You're right George Daniels was self taught and surprise his co-axial escapement doesn't work right. Not everyone has to be WOSTEP but everyone should have gone to school to be a watchmaker. Really a self taught mechanic maybe if your car sucks and is worthless, but a super car or luxury I would think not.


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## vbomega (Jan 31, 2010)

RustyMainspring said:


> You're right George Daniels was self taught and surprise his co-axial escapement doesn't work right.


Yeah! And the escape wheel doesn't look right. Beat rate is also all wrong. If only Daniels went to a watchmaking school...


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## pithy (Aug 22, 2010)

RustyMainspring said:


> You're right George Daniels was self taught and surprise his co-axial escapement doesn't work right. . . . . . . . . . . .


As much as it pains me to point this out (not much): Joe you are wrong.

Omega's co-axial is problematic. The movement that Mr. Daniels envisioned was much different (with a much larger balance for just one thing).

JC, go out on a limb. How do you really feel about all us shade tree mechanics? Enquiring minds want to know. Should the watch police come and take our tweezers away? Should we surrender our lathes, our timing machines and our vibrating fixtures? Do you really want to throw down over this one.:-d

p


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## RustyMainspring (Nov 16, 2010)

Yes the watch police should its watch malpractice.


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## vbomega (Jan 31, 2010)

All right, going underground.


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## naz737 (Apr 11, 2014)

I had a question about the North American Institute of Swiss Watchmaking in Fort Worth, Texas... WOSTEP training USA

Does anyone know about this place? Any words of wisdom? Thoughts? Feedback? (This program seems to be partnered with WOSTEP).

For the record. Thanks to everyone responding to this thread previously. It's great to triangulate different points of view as I'm been an avid mechanical puzzler for years and am looking to make some changes as well. Thanks again.


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## naz737 (Apr 11, 2014)

Well I have a meeting with Gearhart (sp?) tomorrow who was a watchmaker since he was 18 in Germany. Left for WWII to come to america and has been doing his thing ever since. He's going to let me tinker around and see/assess my abilities. He's recommending the Lititz Watch Technicum school in Lititz, PA which is funded by Rolex. Hopefully this will turn into some kind of apprenticeship where it will propel me forward. 

I have seen a list of schools to include:
NG Hayek School of Watchmaking in Miami, FL (WOSTEP)
North American Institute of Swiss Watchmaking in Fort Worth, TX (WOSTEP)
Oklahoma State University School of Watchmaking Okmulgee, OK (SAWTA and CW21)
North Seattle Community College Watch Technology Institute, Seattle, WA (SAWTA and CW21)

I realize there are more schools out there but these seem to be the ones I'm focusing towards. Anyone like to share thoughts on these programs or any others?

Thanks.

Matt


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## phoobo (Mar 21, 2012)

Watchmaking ain't rocket science. You need the right personality (patient, curious, full of stamina), and lots of experience, added to an underlying mechanical aptitude. These qualities are not to be underrated, of course, but the world is full of excellent watchmakers who have based their careers on just this foundation. I wouldn't compare it to medicine. Besides, you can't kill anyone if you do it wrong. Except maybe yourself, with your client doing the heavy hitting.


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## pithy (Aug 22, 2010)

phoobo said:


> Watchmaking ain't rocket science. . . . . . .


At a low level - it isn't. Interestingly, prior to the arise of astophysics horology was the most challenging of academic disciplines.


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## Edge of Midnight (Oct 26, 2010)

As Pithy stated Omega changed his coaxial designs. For one thing it was supposed to be oil free which Omega changed. BTW self taught and always learning. I got into it as a b-) stress relieving hobby after 22 years as an engineer at VW.


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## BenchGuy (Sep 23, 2012)

phoobo said:


> Watchmaking ain't rocket science. You need the right personality (patient, curious, full of stamina), and lots of experience, added to an underlying mechanical aptitude. A solid background in Newtonian physics doesn't hurt either...everything you need to know is addressed in an accelerated highschool or science major college-level physics course. These qualities are not to be underrated, of course, but the world is full of excellent watchmakers who have based their careers on just this foundation. I wouldn't compare it to medicine. Besides, you can't kill anyone if you do it wrong. Depends on what your clients are using their watches for...diving and aviation are examples. Also, Railroad Grade standards arose due to numerous train wrecks and resulting deaths. Except maybe yourself, with your client doing the heavy hitting.


Hopefully, all of us benefit from all sources of education and our past experiences. However, if you want to learn a profession efficiently...the place to start is a well-constructed course of education which includes theory and practice. Those with backgrounds in phyics/engineering might have a leg-up on the high-school graduate and be able to pusue an accelerated course dwelling less on aspects with which they are already famility, but for most of us the best start is a formal course of education. What you do after that and whether you continue learning and advancing your skill level determines where you take it.


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## naz737 (Apr 11, 2014)

Did well enough that the watch maker wants to see if I can start being paid by the jeweler's. I doubt that will happen as they already have someone who is qualified who can complete all of their work... rather than having two people on the pay role and one who is not qualified. I've been having a great time and learning a lot.

I've been recommended to look into Lititz by the watchmaker (like Benchguy is saying) to pursue an education if I'm serious about this. The watchmaker has attended Lititz for on going education for Rolex so he is familiar with the program and the facility. 

I'm pursuing a few options while I'm going to propose free labor (as I've not gotten a call in a week now to help out). I'm probably going to apply to Lititz and North American Institute of Swiss Watchmaking in Tx. I'm in the Northeast already so I'd prefer PA for convenience. 

Thanks for the comments. Much appreciated and I'll posted again with the results of my applications.

Cheers,

Matt


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## glennwatson (Apr 10, 2015)

Just came across this thread and I've enjoyed reading it. I am very curious to find out what has happened for hopsandclocks and if he ever managed to live out his dream. I goggled this topic as the thought jumped into my head last week about making watches


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## rott3 (Aug 7, 2012)

glennwatson said:


> Just came across this thread and I've enjoyed reading it. I am very curious to find out what has happened for hopsandclocks and if he ever managed to live out his dream. I goggled this topic as the thought jumped into my head last week about making watches


Also came around this one...and I guess it makes some of us dream for a while.... the same dream that makes WUS this big family....hope hopsandclocks gives us an update


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## Samantha (May 14, 2010)

An update is probably unlikely - he hasn't been here since July, 2012.
Samantha


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