# Sturdyness of Zenith Elite 681- 40mm - 03.2010.681/01.C493



## exoticwatches

Can any Zenith follower or for that matter any watch enthusiast knowledgeable on ultra thin dress watches tell me if the Zenith Elite 681- 40mm (Model Ref. 03.2010.681/01.C493) could be a daily wearer ?

Would it withstand the rigours of being worn 9AM-6PM say 5 times a week ? And what is the accepted service period for ultra thin zenith watches (like for e.g. for JLC Master Controls it is every 5 years, and say for Rolex watches it can be 5-10 years or maybe even more).

In short .. would the Zenith Elite ultra thin be a dependable long lasting (15-20 years of almost daily use) watch ?

Inputs would be much appreciated specially from owners of ultra thin movements.

Thanks n Regards


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## Hartmut Richter

I can only provide second hand information since I don't own one. However, I never heard anyone complain about the Zenith Cal. 680 "Elite" from the point of view of durability. On top of that, it is a fact that thin movements do not have to be less reliable. On the contrary! One of the best movements of all time is one of the slimmest: the humble ETA 2892. And if you doubt that, read this (towards the bottom of the two-page review):

Rolex Caliber 3135 - Still worthy of the crown after all these years?

(...which also makes a case for the Zenith "El Primero" being one of the best movements of all time - and that was a super slim automatic chronograph when it was brought out!)

Hartmut Richter


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## exoticwatches

Thx Hartmut


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## dantan

I am considering purchasing one of these watches, and wearing it regularly. Zenith is one of the most highly-regarded watch manufacturers (and watch manufactures, without the "r" at the end). I am sure that this watch will prove to be extremely reliable as a daily wearer.


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## wills0_9

I wear a Class Elite with 680 movement almost daily and have done since I purchased it second hand in 2004. It occasionally gets a rest when the El Primeros or my Breitling 806 come out for an airing!

It keeps great time and is extremely comfortable to wear. Suits my desk job where a more chunky watch can be uncomfortable for continuous keyboard use.


Will


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## dantan

Thanks mate. Are these movements happy to be handwound on a daily basis?


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## wills0_9

dantan said:


> Thanks mate. Are these movements happy to be handwound on a daily basis?


Being an auto mine only gets wound about once a week. Usually after a bit of inactivity off the wrist at the weekend.

Will


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## Hartmut Richter

In general, automatic watches don't like to be wound manually very much (unless the mainspring is pretty run down) unless they have a decoupling mechanism. The fact of the matter is that part of the energy is diverted to the automatic winding system - the more fully wound the mainspring, the more goes down the auto winding system. If those gears are not in ruby settings, the wear is rather greater than normal since the speed at which the gears go round is slowest close to the mainspring - and when manually winding, these are the ones going round quickest! In the ETA 2824 as an example, the decoupling gear is the one right after the click wheels (when viewed from the rotor end) which is a pain since the click wheels are both in rubies (and don't spin when manually winding) whereas the two reduction gears aren't (and these are the ones that spin during manual winding!). The "explosion diagramme" of the "Elite" calibre shows that the entire automatic winding system after the rotor is in ruby bearings which reduces wear but still, in general, manual winding isn't a good idea on automatics.

Hartmut Richter


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## Longjean

No contraindications to hand winding in my Elite handbook.
"The movement is wound by either the crown or the action of the oscillating weight."
"WHEN THE WATCH HAS STOPPED Hold your watch and turn the crown at least 30 times. In this way the barrel containing the mainspring is rewound.
To ensure that the automatic winding mechanism functions correctly, the watch must be worn for at least 12 hours every day for several days. If the watch is not worn for long enough, it will stop.
If you do not wear your watch at night, you can give it a few turns of the crown in the morning before putting it on."

I don't know what they mean by wearing at night but I wear mine 24/7 and it usually stops after about 3 days. This is the achilles' heel of the movement as can be deduced from the text which I have copied_ verbatim_.
I complained to my watch repairer that the watch still did not auto wind properly after servicing, but he said that it never stopped with him, but he had it on a winder 24hr./day. Before service +4s/d , after service +4s/d so no complaints there. I now wind it 15 times each morning and do not regard it as an automatic compatible with my lifestyle.
I would be interested to hear from others if they have had the same problem since it is obvious from the hand- book that this is not the best auto winder in the watch world.
[ I have an ETA 2824 and a Seiko SARB which also get worn for 6 days at a time but have never stopped.]


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## wills0_9

Hi

My Class 6 Elite only stops when off the wrist for more than a 24hr period, usually at weekends.

I never hand wind during the week when watch is on wrist 7.00am until 7.00pm and I have an 8hr desk job so it doesn't exactly get a lot of chance to wind itself!

My El Primeros are better and will get through the longer weekend periods when off the wrist. Very little if any hand winding required.


Will


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## Hartmut Richter

I am mildly surprised that the ETA 2824 should wind better than the Elite. I am not surprised that the Seiko winds better since Seiko use the "magic lever" system based on an excentre device which is that used by IWC in their famous automatics from the fifties and sixties, plus many others (PP: Cal. 12-600, Otero, Cyma and Longines who I think invented it in the first place, but please don't quote me on that).

Adolf Schild made several bidirectionally winding calibres but spent a fair amount of time trying to prove (successfully in their opinion) that unidirectional winding is actually better. The reason is that when the system changes direction, there is a certain arc of the rotor during which there is actually no winding at all since the reversing gears (in most modern systems: the click wheels) change over. So, on most bidirectionally winding watches, many slight movements do not add up to few hefty ones. The exception is the excentre system which has practically no rotor arc without winding. The big question is: how much shaking and of whta type does your Zenith Elite get? If it is all computer work with the hands floating over the keyboard in almost exactly the same position, you won't get much winding out of that. Mind you, the ETA 2824 shouldn't either.....

Hartmut Richter


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## Longjean

"To ensure that the automatic winding mechanism functions correctly, the watch must be worn for at least 12 hours every day for several days."

This is the part of the instructions which leads me to believe that Zenith know that this is not the most efficient winding system.
I have tried brisk walking for 1 hour three days in a row and the watch still stopped. I am convinced that this particular watch has a defective winding mechanism, but I am unwilling to take it to another watch repairer. I wear it in a three week rotation and love the watch so I will continue to top up with the winder.
Thanks for the information about winders. I had been thinking about the slack, or backlash as I would call it, in a bidirectional system and since the radius of the rotor of the Elite is only about 12mm how much effort is imparted into the winding mechanism.


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## Rdenney

My wife's Star Elite has never stopped in several days of wear. She winds it when it is stopped, but not when it is running and reading the correct time. She has a desk job and thus does not exercise her watch all that aggressively.

Automatic watches since the 50's were designed to stay wound routinely when worn every day. If they do not, then there is likely something wrong.

Rick "who has some of those old A. Schild bi-directional autos that don't really like being hand-wound" Denney


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## Longjean

Thanks all , as I suspected my watch has a winding fault, although the repairer denied this. I will however continue to top up the reserve until the next service when I will use a different repairer. I am one of those strange people who prefer hand wound watches since I was used to them in a previous age.


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## Promiceus

Have the same problem. Zenith Defy Xtreme Power reserve. It has an elite 685 (i think) movement. The watch slowly looses power reserve and does not gain enough back. The saddest part it was sent into the service three times already! Two last - back onto factory to Switzerland (local AD does not have authorised watchmakers). And, two last times - because of the same problem! I cannot believe Zenit can perform THAT bad. It looks like I will have to send the watch for the third time. Because after a series of experiments and comparisons I clearly see that other watches get through my lifestyle easily, and in some situations I can see power reserve fully wound by the end of day. Not with Zenith. A really sad case. I'm only glad I managed to by a watch a new (it was laying in the dealer for years), so all of this is done to their expenses. However, realising that almost half of the time I own a watch it spent in the trips to service does not feel good...


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## dk1977

I know this is an old thread, but wanted to shed some light on it. The winding system is not faulty. The problem you are all referring to is due to mainspring not getting broken in properly. Info comes straight from Zenith in my area. 

You see, the main spring is quite stiff at the beginning (yes a big FXXXX up from such a company), so it wont achieve 100% winding on its own and may work like this for years, you have to manually wind it for the first month every day, then it will get the appropriate flexibility. It will keep an excellent power reserve and accuracy. 

Try it 
CHeers


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## Hartmut Richter

Thanks for the information. It would then be interesting to know whether and, if so, where the automatic winding system decouples from the manual winding system. For if not, your month manual winding will do a little damage to the automatic system!!

Hartmut Richter


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## Longjean

I have been hand winding mine for 3 years now because it stops if I don't.
I don't agree that this is not a fault. Either the spring is too strong for the auto-winding mechanism to overcome or the auto mechanism can't cope with the stiffness of the spring, two sides of the same coin. At the very least it is a design fault which should have been corrected. It is not a pleasant watch to wind but so far the mechanism has survived and I have no intentions of letting anyone touch it since it runs at +5s/day.
However by any measure this particular watch is not fit for purpose and not as described since it does not wind automatically.

P.S. I love it despite all of the above but I hate that it does not perform as it should.


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## wills0_9

Longjean said:


> I have been hand winding mine for 3 years now because it stops if I don't.
> I don't agree that this is not a fault. Either the spring is too strong for the auto-winding mechanism to overcome or the auto mechanism can't cope with the stiffness of the spring, two sides of the same coin. At the very least it is a design fault which should have been corrected. It is not a pleasant watch to wind but so far the mechanism has survived and I have no intentions of letting anyone touch it since it runs at +5s/day.
> However by any measure this particular watch is not fit for purpose and not as described since it does not wind automatically.
> 
> P.S. I love it despite all of the above but I hate that it does perform as it should.


This is not applicable to all Elites....
I have two Elites and do not have to daily wind either.
I have a desk job so they don't get a lot of winding but keep ticking and keep excellent time none the less.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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