# The Love/Hate Relationship TAG Heuer Has Among WIS



## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

There is a recently closed thread about all of the hate that Tag Heuer gets on this board. (https://www.watchuseek.com/f25/new-tag-heuer-owner-why-hate-969582.html). It was off topic at points and closed by a Mod, but the Mod said to start a new thread if the topic wanted to be continued, and I would like to do just that.

It seems to me that Tag Heuer does not get a lot of respect on Watchuseek. I never paid much attention to this in my time here (just over 5 years) but last month I bought a Tag Monaco after a few months of debating and comparing other watches. One of the things I knew going into the purchase was that I would probably read a lot of criticisms of Tag going forward. That doesn't bother me too much because I have never bought a watch to impress the members of WUS, but I do listen to different perspectives on each brand as a way to get a general sense of which brands are on the rise, on the decline, or staying pretty stagnant. I believe the Monaco is pretty well respected by the entire WUS community. This is not the case for all Tag Heuer models.

I think the overall criticisms of Tag can be listed and some seem to hold more weight than others do, at least to me. It seems like the most common knocks against Tag Heuer are:


They spend more money on advertising than they do on their watches. 
They make cheap quartz models that dilute the value of their more expensive models. 
They use plastic spacers around movements in some of their watches. 
They were misleading about the origins of the 1887 movement. 
Tag Heuer watches from the 80s and the 90s were cheaply made, and this hurts the brands history, something which WIS respect about different brands. 
At current prices, there are better options from other brands. 

I've found myself to become a bit of a Tag fanboy in the past few months, something that is probably in the minority here on WUS, and but I don't think that makes me biased for the brand in an unrealistic way. I think the majority of Tag fans understand where Tag falls in the relative hierarchy of watches, although trying to pinpoint their position can open a can of worms. I have read a lot of posts by members here who seem to feel the same as me, Tag has made its share of questionable decisions in the past, but they still get an unfair bad reputation they don't always deserve. It seems to me that Tag is a brand on the rise, in terms of making better movements, and new innovations. I think the Mikro models, the V4, and the new 1887 and 1969 movements show this. They seem positioned to move upmarket, and while I am not naming other brands to incite and argument, I think it is obvious that Tag Heuer has eyed its competition and is looking to move into a higher price bracket with it's more expensive pieces.

My question for everyone else on this board is, do you think the criticisms that Tag receives are fair? Can they ever shed their less than stellar reputation? And where do you see them growing in the future?


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

I too was a little disappointed the thread was closed. Let's hope the people who took it off topic don't continue their discussion here.

Perhaps it's because Tag Heuer is considered by come as a fashion oriented company, being owned by LVMH now. The old Heuer brand, before tag, still has respect amongst the fussiest WIS. 

I never gave Tag Heuer much thought but was so impressed with the design and attention to detail in their current lineup I bought my first Tag Heuer a few weeks ago. Design and quality seems to be on-pass with last generations Omega (I'm talking entry level points not higher end from either brand).


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

anonymousmoose said:


> Perhaps it's because Tag Heuer is considered by come as a fashion oriented company, being owned by LVMH now. The old Heuer brand, before tag, still has respect amongst the fussiest WIS.


That's a good point, that seems to be a common criticism of Tag Heuer, they are more a fashion company than a watch company. However, Zenith is also owned by LVMH and I have yet to see a post calling Zenith a fashion company.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

The Monaco is perfect example of the shallow depths of the typical WIS mindset for the following reason; why is it acceptable to like the Monaco?
It is purely because Steve McQueen is cool. That is an allowed reason to like the watch despite the hated guts of the watch (I mean, it's a Sellita/ETA _and_ a module - that's like double ugh). The same applies to the Calibre 17 Carrera watchess that get a pass because it uses a side by side two register dial and Heuer logo instead of TAGHeuer and it too uses the ETA+module movement.
Really?
Dead guy, dial and a logo?
What happened to that in-house/manufacture/mechanical stuff that you guys keep banging on about?

but wait!
the regular 7750 Carrera and 1887 Carrera's are over-priced tat.
Right.

The problem with the grand statements about market positions and whatnot is that they are usually made wearing very narrow blinkers. What watch manufacturer isn't trying to improve their products and thus improve their prices?

Notice how it is often cited that TAGHeuer are too common?
Well, blow me down if Omega and Rolex don't each produce more watches than TAGHeuer does.
What they really mean is that (some) TAGHeuer watches are cheaper and thus all TAGHeuer aren't worthy of being compared, on any level to their beloved but of course, that would be overtly bragging about the cost of their watch and that isn't the done thing to do.

The snobbery on the fora is really beginning to bug me lately. I came here to share my love for watches and it turns out people here seem more intent on slagging off watches they don't have instead of talking about watches that they do.

It's not about being a fanboy.
I've said it before but sometimes, correcting a fallacy is just that and would be done regardless of the brand being talked about. It just so happens that there is a lot of fallacies thrown about towards TAGHeuer (and a select few others) that just gets accepted which says a lot about WUS as a whole, or at least the Public Forum.

Maybe it is time to call it a day?


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

drunken monkey said:


> Maybe it is time to call it a day?


Good points if not a bit too harshly written. It seems this is getting to you a bit. Your point (unless I am misreading it) is very valid. Enjoy what you wear. Personally I find most WIS on WUS (omega forum is where I hang mostly) respect all models of watches and are not snobbish. It's only a small handful that are. Yes people like in house movements and all, but they respect your ETA, quartz etc at the same time. If anything people moreso seem to hold a certain brand in higher regard over others, but id say that's moreso on loyalty than snobbery.



WillMK5 said:


> That's a good point, that seems to be a common criticism of Tag Heuer, they are more a fashion company than a watch company. However, Zenith is also owned by LVMH and I have yet to see a post calling Zenith a fashion company.


Dont know much/anything about zenith yet Tag Heuer sells glasses, hats, gloves, phones etc. Maybe that's why? A lot of WIS didn't like it when Omega started doing this. But they do it a lot more subtitlely than Tag Heuer does with their accessories etc.

But I guess if it's bringing in the $$$, it works. I also know the general non-WIS who doesn't know much about watches seem to like Tag Heuer (from experience talking to people), marketing works.

I watched a very interesting UK documentary about people and their 'facination' with fashion brands. There is a three level pyramid: Top end products for ultra wealthy, middle range products and bottom for volume sales. The high end brands only market to the wealthy but rely on the sales of the bottom end products to bring in the dollars, like belts/wallets etc. That's why your regular Joe will save up for a $400 LV belt, it makes them feel part of the image of owning something wealthy people buy. Tag Heuer seems to do this. Market a special edition Monaco/Carrera, get people's attention and sell them an F1 they saved up for or will pay off the credit card for. Perhaps because it's run this way, it turns off a WIS. Omega/IWC doesn't have any more watches at the low end F1 price point, in my view they only have a two teir pyramid, starting at mid level and then top. Your average consumer wouldn't spend $5000 on a watch, it's a lot more outlay than a $1500 Tag. $5000 is not as easy to wack on the credit card when they have bills to pay and mouths to feed. Maybe because of this is why a WIS is more attracted to the upper brands, a bit more exclusive?

For me I walked into and AD, saw the F1 that cought my eye and bought it. Took me 30 mins to make my decision because for $1160aud the price wasn't high enough to require a lot of thinking.

But saying all that. I have recently had more respect for Tag Watches than ever before. Designs for low end models seem better and I wouldn't be surprised if prices will go north in the future. I'm also very happy Tag is offering quality quartz watch at a price point I don't need to extend myself to buy.

Im in also coming to an age/realisation where I kinda get the toys that I like, not someone is telling me I should like because it's worn on some sports celebrities wrist (but it still does have a phycological impact I can't deny, I kinda want the Tag Senna wore after watching the Senna documentary film :roll.

at the end of the day, it's all about perception and what we desire. I would think there are a handful of people on this forum who actually own a unique collectible timepiece. Most watches we discuss on WUS are mass produced. But we like them and that's what matters. If you like it, can afford it; wear it in good health and enjoy!


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Please don't misunderstand the "tone" of how I type.
Often, I type in short concise sentences to minimise confusion or other misreading in whatever point I am trying to make.
Sometimes I understand that can be taken to be an indicator of my mood.

I assure you it is not.
It's a little hard to be angry when you're sipping on a cup of Kona and chewing on a piece of Porcelana or Chuau.


And yes, I like the guys in the Omega forum.
That I have met a couple and had very nice conversations with them in person probably helps.


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## William2 (Apr 7, 2012)

When you join a new club you quickly learn what you are supposed to like and dislike. On WUS you are clearly supposed to dislike Tag Heuer. There is little point trying to analyse this - it may simply be that several influential members took this view five years ago.


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

drunken monkey said:


> The Monaco is perfect example of the shallow depths of the typical WIS mindset for the following reason; why is it acceptable to like the Monaco?
> It is purely because Steve McQueen is cool. That is an allowed reason to like the watch despite the hated guts of the watch (I mean, it's a Sellita/ETA _and_ a module - that's like double ugh). The same applies to the Calibre 17 Carrera watchess that get a pass because it uses a side by side two register dial and Heuer logo instead of TAGHeuer and it too uses the ETA+module movement.
> Really?
> Dead guy, dial and a logo?
> ...


I always assumed the Monaco was acceptable because it was relatively unchanged over the years. I think the history of that model, not just McQueen, gives it some slack. Some of the 7750 Carreras are greatly changed from the original, upsetting some of the Purists.

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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

hmm, I never considered that.
I'll have to consider that the next time I think about making that comment or similar.

It is at the least a question for me to now ponder when I read others' comments about the Monaco.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

William2 said:


> When you join a new club you quickly learn what you are supposed to like and dislike. On WUS you are clearly supposed to dislike Tag Heuer. There is little point trying to analyse this - it may simply be that several influential members took this view five years ago.


I certainly haven't come across much of this... And I've been around for a long time. Maybe it's the sub-forum I hang around mostly? When I posted my F1 on the Omega forum I got lots of nice feedback. I didn't really like Tag Heuer due to their fashion image (my views explained in my lengthy post above), but that changed when I finally had a closer look at their watches. You can add me to the Tag Heuer fan club too now :-!.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

drunken monkey said:


> hmm, I never considered that.
> I'll have to consider that the next time I think about making that comment or similar.
> 
> It is at the least a question for me to now ponder when I read others' comments about the Monaco.


Im still new to Tag Heuer. However is see the Monaco as I see the Omega Speedmaster Manual wind. Two respected classic timepieces timeless in design (I don't know how unchanged the Monaco movement is, a google and you'd find out). Sadly I own neither... Something else always sings to me personally more when I get the funds to choose the next watch :roll:;-). The askmen watchsnob would surely move to the other end of the bar when I sit down.

The watch I covert the most at the moment is the Tag Heuer Ayrton Senna wore (funny enough a quartz movement). If anyone knows where I can get one like it please let me know.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

anonymousmoose said:


> Im still new to Tag Heuer. However is see the Monaco as I see the Omega Speedmaster Manual wind. Two respected classic timepieces timeless in design (I don't know how unchanged the Monaco movement is, a google and you'd find out). Sadly I own neither... Something else always sings to me personally more when I get the funds to choose the next watch :roll:;-). The askmen watchsnob would surely move to the other end of the bar when I sit down.


I think my confusion over the attitudes towards the watch is skewed by the attitudes towards the 1887 Carrera.
Where the Monaco visually looks 90% similar (95% in the case of the limited models), the Carrera uses the same case design in a larger form and a different movement (Monaco is also a very different movement).

On paper, if one were being objective and using the same criteria for judging one as you do the other, nothing says that the Carrera isn't on level ground as the Monaco, especially seeing as it is also the cheaper watch.
I suppose there is visual difference between it and the original 1963/1964 version of the watch and well, to be fair, all other Speedmaster watches are looked on as "inferior" in one way or another (yeah it's nice but....) to the manual, with the exception of the 9300, which is where my 1887 confusion comes into it again. 9300 is great because it is a nice modern movement in a modernised case.
1887 Carrera is rubbish because yadda yadda yadda Seiko.

It all does seem to boil to down to double-standards which, in any form, is one of my personal bugbears.


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## beeman101 (Nov 16, 2013)

Wow ! That's a radical looking Tag. I used to follow aryton senna's races but i like micheal prost better. It was a golden period for F1 racing. But that watch ...is not a love for me in this love/hate discussion well neither a hate i guess 

The Carrera series of Tag i have always loved. Aqua racer not my cup of tea...design wise. For me that one series and it's pricing represents the brand for me. Maybe it is time Tag Heuer decides what area it wants to play in and not be all over the place. To me it sometimes feels like they don't know where they want to place their brand in so they are trying to capitalise a greater share from low to medium range of the market (ok maybe not that low). Since i not well versed with complications/movements i'm just taking this view with regards to brand placement as i feel that is also a very important aspect of any business.

I think for Lvmh and their watch brands......_correct me if im wrong here_. Tag seems to be their starting brand into watches price wise. The rest Bulgari/Chaumet/hublot/Zenith are all placed in a higher bracket. So while they probably want to tap that much larger 1500$ end lower market (which obviously will give them quantities) they don't have multiple famous brands which the swatch group possess ! I think sometimes due to this their marketing/sales people are slightly confused as what they really want to do.

For whatever it's worth these are my 2 cents !!!


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

beeman101 said:


> To me it sometimes feels like they don't know where they want to place their brand in so they are trying to capitalise a greater share from low to medium range of the market (ok maybe not that low). Since i not well versed with complications/movements i'm just taking this view with regards to brand placement as i feel that is also a very important aspect of any business.
> 
> I think for Lvmh and their watch brands......_correct me if im wrong here_. Tag seems to be their starting brand into watches price wise. The rest Bulgari/Chaumet/hublot/Zenith are all placed in a higher bracket. So while they probably want to tap that much larger 1500$ end lower market (which obviously will give them quantities) they don't have multiple famous brands which the swatch group possess ! I think sometimes due to this their marketing/sales people are slightly confused as what they really want to do.
> 
> For whatever it's worth these are my 2 cents !!!


Makes sense. To me Tag Heuer is clearly marketed like a fashion company, given it's owned by one it makes sense. Very much like the three tier pyramid I posted about earlier. Tag Heuer does have some extremely high end watches too. If WIS-snobs (minority of WIS) get over the perception of what's they perceive Tag Heuer to be, IMO they'll find some nice watches.

Example of how I feel about watches in general: Movement-shmovement - my favourite IWC just so happens to be the 3717 with modified ETA movement. And not just because I own it. When I first saw it marketed I knew zero about IWC watches, price points and movements. I saw the Mark model in a film and found out there is a chronograph pilot version. It was my favourite designed IWC I saw in their catalogue. By golly was I happy when I found out I could afford it, because it has the ETA modified movement. Ok ok, there was one I liked better, the 3717 in rose gold but I couldn't spend $15,000 on a watch ;-).


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## rezoguitar (Feb 6, 2013)

I have to agree with Will. Indoctrination includes crapping on quartz, TH, and a few other brands we all know the name of.

It's not about thin skin either - the piss and vinegar for Tag flows endlessly and it's eventually got to grind into the last nerve of those who appreciate their Tag watch(es).

I think Tag should give DM a watch or two or cash for his standing up for the brand for so long - an undercover brand ambassador at WUS. 

A lot of the animosity seems to come primarily from the Public Forum, IMO. Plus a few folks seem to have their entire self worth tied up in watches.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

rezoguitar said:


> I have to agree with Will. Indoctrination includes crapping on quartz, TH, and a few other brands we all know the name of.


yep. And even in-house movements... I do respect the mechanics and design. But let's face it they are still mass produced. Something truly exclusive will cost you the price of an entry level supercar. Or more than a London apartment in some cases.



> Plus a few folks seem to have their entire self worth tied up in watches.


thats when the marketing arm has done their job. One thing that doco I watched showed, scientifically, was the part of the human brain that processes the desire to own these things is the same as the part that keeps humans addicted to things... I seem to want that Senna Tag even more now.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

anonymousmoose said:


> yep. And even in-house movements... I do respect the mechanics and design. But let's face it they are still mass produced. Something truly exclusive will cost you the price of an entry level supercar.


Depends on how you define exclusivity.

That is one of the cool things about the Haute Horolgy department.
They pretty much make things all by hand but don't charge what you expect them to.
If you want to compare their methodology, it much closer to the proper prestigious manufacturers than it is to anything Rolex, Omega or even Seiko do with their Grand Seiko watches do but not to the same degree of decoration and finishing as the prestigious guys. There is often talk about the Grand Seiko studios where they hand finish the movements and cases and how each watch is assigned to a single watchmaker for its lifetime. Well, that is how the TAGHeuer HH department works, when you buy one of them, it is taken care of by the guy who made it in the first place with one key difference. Whereas Grand Seiko still do deal with SII made movement ebauches, the HH team also make the parts of their movements separate from the regular production (the TAGHeuer movement manufacture line can't just be turned off to make 50 random HH watch blanks...)

That is if you want to be objective about it, the HH watches are more hand made and more exclusively made than a GS watch.

but lets not stir the fanboys into a frenzy, after all, the cheapest TAGHauer HH watch is the Mikrograph at £30,000ish.
Instead let's compare to the Swiss big boys.
How much would a hand made chronograph (let's ignore the actual spec of the Mikrogirder for now) cost from say Patek Phillipe?
£30,000? I think not. You get better movement finishing though for your Patek Money.
Factor in this other little nugget of info; because of how the HH department works, there is also massive scope for you to have watches made to your spec with regards to materials; so long as it's in their catalogue, they can do it.
Do you want a one off Rose Gold Monaco with carbon fibre dial? Sure, let them know and they can work out a quote for you.

That is why in part I am always reluctant to conflate the HH department with the regular production because their ethic/methodology is so different. It really is, _literally_ is, the TAGHeuer R&D team that has decided to make things that they develop into production retail models, because they can.

The thing that often gets overlooked because of the rather questionable nature of the spec of the Mikro watches (i.e 1/2000 precision? really?) is that looking beyond the specs, TAGHeuer have developed a new watch movement platform in the for of the dual chain movement, essentially two movements in one. That new platform is one of the key reasons how they were able to spit out their Mikro models so quickly one after the other; because the platform is sound and so all that is left is to just concentrate on the actual new escapement technology, be it girder, tourbillon or magnet.

And let's be clear here, everything the HH department does has been way more deserving of the title "new technology" than the Co-Axial (the same bunch of gears but arranged differently to change the direction of forces applied to the escapement? technology? compared to one escapement that doesn't use a balance wheel and another that doesn't use a balance spring and one that doesn't use either?) but again, let's not stir the fanboys because the same is still true, the HH watches _*aren't*_ the regular production watches and so can't really be put side by side.

If you are at all interested in watches and you don't look in detail about Guy Semon's team, you are missing a lot of cool stuff.
I've been trying to wrangle a meeting with him but no luck so far.

two videos in a series originally posted by another member here.

link one
link two


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## Piloto (Jan 1, 2012)

Well, you know what they say about opinions? But since asked, heres mine, ;-)

First, I still have a thing for Tags. I have a (bought new myself in 1989) original model 1000 that I am restoring. I have also had an Aqua racer chrono automatic. I sold the A/R because it was just too big (tall) on me. I was banging it into everything at work.

I like the Carerra, and HATE the Monaco. Always have. I don't like square watches. If Patek gave me a square, I would not like it either. Personal preference.

IMHO, I will always have a thing for the older Tags and Heuer watches. As for the newer ones... Well, they are just as nice, but I think Tag has stretched them selves too thin, thus tarnishing their standing in the WIS community. It's simply an image thing.

If Tag wants to be a new Michael Koors type company... There is nothing we can do about it.

I'll post a picture of my 1000 when I finish it. I just had the original jubilee bracelet restored link by link. I'll be putting it back together in the next week or two.


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## Mediocre (Oct 27, 2013)

Piloto said:


> Well, you know what they say about opinions? But since asked, heres mine, ;-)
> 
> First, I still have a thing for Tags. I have a (bought new myself in 1989) original model 1000 that I am restoring. I have also had an Aqua racer chrono automatic. I sold the A/R because it was just too big (tall) on me. I was banging it into everything at work.
> 
> ...


While Tag is pretty well accepted here to not be on the same level as Rolex or Omega, it is no where near Michael Kors either....More along the lines of Oris with a much larger marketing budget.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

as a rule, I avoid products that use celebrity product placement.
Sure Seiko did it with that Tennis guy...so I wont buy that Tennis watch.


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## jbhoo (Jan 12, 2014)

chuasam said:


> as a rule, I avoid products that use celebrity product placement.
> Sure Seiko did it with that Tennis guy...so I wont buy that Tennis watch.


But surely every top brand uses celebrity in their ad campaigns, here are just a few from a quick google search

*Rolex* David Beckham, Roger Federer Andy Roddick used in recent adverts
*Omega*, George Clooney, Daniel Craig (plus Bond), Nicole Kidman
*Breitling*, David Beckham, John Travolta
*Longines*, Kate Winslet,
*Baume & Mercier* Kim Basinger , Kiefer Sutherland and Meg Ryan
*Panerai* Sylvester Stallone (untouchables)


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

chuasam said:


> as a rule, I avoid products that use celebrity product placement.
> Sure Seiko did it with that Tennis guy...so I wont buy that Tennis watch.


That's a surefire way to make sure you never own some of the highest rated watches that exist.


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

Mediocre said:


> While Tag is pretty well accepted here to not be on the same level as Rolex or Omega, it is no where near Michael Kors either....More along the lines of Oris with a much larger marketing budget.


Clearly no where close to Michael Kors, who doesn't make their watches, Fossil does. I wouldn't put them near Oris because Oris does not make their own movements. Tag Heuer has in house movements. I understand the comparison to Oris in terms of price, and finish.

This could be controversial of me to say, but I think Tag, at least the newer Tags, are more along the lines of Breitling. They are in house automatic chronographs similar to many of the new Breitling models. The difference is Breitling doesn't really have the low end pieces that Tag does. Both brands use a lot of modified ETA/Sellita pieces, have celebrity ambassadors, and are known outside of the WIS bubble we all live in.


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## Mediocre (Oct 27, 2013)

WillMK5 said:


> Clearly no where close to Michael Kors, who doesn't make their watches, Fossil does. I wouldn't put them near Oris because Oris does not make their own movements. Tag Heuer has in house movements. I understand the comparison to Oris in terms of price, and finish.
> 
> This could be controversial of me to say, but I think Tag, at least the newer Tags, are more along the lines of Breitling. They are in house automatic chronographs similar to many of the new Breitling models. The difference is Breitling doesn't really have the low end pieces that Tag does. Both brands use a lot of modified ETA/Sellita pieces, have celebrity ambassadors, and are known outside of the WIS bubble we all live in.


So you would agree that the Tags with an ETA are comparable to Oris with an ETA?


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

Mediocre said:


> So you would agree that the Tags with an ETA are comparable to Oris with an ETA?


I haven't handled an Oris in close to two years, and that would be before I owned my Monaco, so I don't think I could really give an accurate answer. From what I've read about the Oris divers, they are built like a tank. I'm not sure if comparing an Oris with a 2824 and a Tag with a 2892 is fair, though.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Seiko is/was an official sponsor of the entire Barcelona football team and across the different model lines advertises with various actors and singers across Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea and Japan.

Guess you should stop buying Seiko watches too then?


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

WillMK5 said:


> That's a surefire way to make sure you never own some of the highest rated watches that exist.


If that is what it takes, I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

chuasam said:


> If that is what it takes, I'm willing to make that sacrifice.


I cant think of any mid to high watch brand that doesn't use celebrities. It simply a good way of marketing which works. Not on you obviously, but it works in general. I came to Omega through celebritry endorsement (007 goldeneye) before I even knew anything about watches at all.


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

The criticism of celebrity ambassadors is something I have a hard time understanding. Every major brand with the exception of maybe Patek and Vacheron use brand ambassadors. And based off of the fact that brands are always signing new ambassadors, it clearly must work from a marketing perspective.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

WillMK5 said:


> The criticism of celebrity ambassadors is something I have a hard time understanding. Every major brand with the exception of maybe Patek and Vacheron use brand ambassadors. And based off of the fact that brands are always signing new ambassadors, it clearly must work from a marketing perspective.


Because some people are sheep

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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

chuasam said:


> Because some people are sheep


I don't understand your hangup over it, every major brand does it, including your darling Seiko. It seems narrow minded to dismiss a brand because of the way it markets itself.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

chuasam said:


> Because some people are sheep


It seems strange to dislike a brand because of celebrity endorsement but then like another which does the same. I need to ask, with all due respect, if you just pulling our legs with you posts now.


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## imaCoolRobot (Jan 1, 2014)

anonymousmoose said:


> It seems strange to dislike a brand because of celebrity endorsement but then like another which does the same. I need to ask, with all due respect, if you just pulling our legs with you posts now.


Actually... More like I avoid reading ads when possible. The ads you pointed out were either a long time ago or for a market demographic that I am not a part of.
I have absolutely no interest in football either.
Put it this way, now that I know of those ads I shall avoid getting those particular models too.

ok...except for those 130th Anniversary GS.
But who the hell are those 2 posing with the watches?
I really do want the GS.


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

I own Tags, a Rolex, a couple of Tissot's and a couple of Sinns, and a plethora of also-rans. 

The real WIS die hards here poo poo Tag because they consider it an upstart and bemoan the fact that it mounts ETA movements in the majority of its line. They wax prolific about "their" brands being much superior due the in-house movements that always seem to sprout a new cannootin valve or thingamajig that makes them soooo much better.

Exclusivity is first and foremost with them, have to have that in-house movement to move into the horological stratosphere.

That is unless somehow you can throw a lineage to Rolex into the mix, up pops the Tudor Black Bay Heritage! The same people who are dissing Tag and it's pedestrian ETA movements, are now waxing prolific about the Tudor, it's Rolex heritage, fit, finish etc etc.

And exactly what is the Tudor Black Bay Heritage? It's a well built Submariner homage with no date window, 200m WR and is powered by an ETA 2824-2 movement, and not even Chronometer grade!

It costs around $3,000 to $4,000 and if Tag came out with this exact same watch, same specs, and had the Tag logo on it instead, the WIS Elites would be screaming bloody murder! 

"It's junk, crappy ETA movement" "Not worth the price for a non in-house movement" "It's a poor copy of a classic, how dare they"? "How can they be taken seriously when they can't even make their own movements?" etc etc, get my drift, 

It's all in a name, and when Rolex is somehow involved, all transgressions are overlooked, we must perpetuate the mystique, even we have to make it up out of whole cloth.


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## jbhoo (Jan 12, 2014)

chuasam said:


> Actually... More like I avoid reading ads when possible. The ads you pointed out were either a long time ago or for a market demographic that I am not a part of.
> I have absolutely no interest in football either.
> Put it this way, now that I know of those ads I shall avoid getting those particular models too.
> 
> so using your logic if you don't like movies (leonardo dicaprio, cameron diaz) it's ok to buy a TAG?


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Right, so basically you are using the whole "I don't do advertising" as your badge of superiority.


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## justbecauseIcan (May 8, 2013)

I think it's the difference between what TAG pretends to be (and is to non-WIS) to what they actually are. 

The average TAG owner is most likely not very well informed or interested in watches. I came from that corner of the market and then developed a dislike for a watch that I previously liked because I had to learn that TAG does not make every part of the watch.. the masses have no idea that various brands have the same movement inside. It killed it for me when I checked how cheap watches with the same movement (Valjoux 7750) go for. When I saw them in the metal, I figured that the TAG wasn't really made to higher standards and I simply had to sell it, bubble burst.

I did buy watches with basic ETA movements after that but when I drop >3k on a watch, it simply can't be a TAG anymore. Only for less than that. Their new in-house movement does not interest me anymore because the brand has been cheapened down for me as far as my perception goes. 

And as I said before, when I see someone with a TAG, they are far less likely to know anything about watches than when I see someone wearing, say, a Tudor..or an Omega, or an IWC, or pretty much anything else. Same goes for Rolex, plenty of clueless people (which is ok) but at least they have a better watch than they think they have, whereas uninformed TAG owners have the opposite.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Hey, what do you know?
A simply stated and clear explanation on one's perspective and experience.

Thumbs up from me.

Perfectly understandable position too.
I suppose I am one of those that don't really give a hoot about certain things.

Black Bay, Heritage Chrono, Pam048, 2254 are several examples of watches that I like and can see myself buying that have essentially Eta movements in them. They're all priced or were priced higher than the TAGHeuer equivilents too for whatever that might suggest.
I guess what it is, is that they have a certain look/style/design to them and the price really is just the cost if having it and it is a case of whether I can afford it or not.
If I like and can afford then I'm good.

There are some that seem intent on making this an elitist issue one way or another. They put forth the notion that one, as a casual buyer of TAGHeuer watches must be an idiot and a mug as they are over-paying for this eta piece of tat. They proclaim that we are a victim of their marketing and that we are wasting our money.

I should add though, that I really don't buy into the what a watch says about a person thing. Who cares if that TAGHeuer/Rolex gut knows about his watch? What bearing does it have on my life and my enjoyment on things?

I met a guy with a Blancpain 5015 who didn't seem to know the Fifty Fathoms name (he knew the 5015 ref though). I've also met guys who are even bigger reference number geeks than me but then so what?

The funny thing is all this talk about TAGHeuer being "cheaper" than they pretend to be; well, I've always seen them as cheap watches. By the same token, I've always seen Omega as being more expensive and Rolex as more expensive too. But then I also don't pretend that these things, which are all middle market products, at anything special either.

If I were to pinpoint my issue with TAGHeuer critics is they seem to have a need to proclaim their watch the winner when I wasn't competing in the first place. It always sounds like they resent the fact that TAGHeuer is eating from the same market pie as their preferred brand does; that the only brand worth sharing that pie with is Rolex.

That is why I broke it down to it being jealousy, insecurity and a need for confirmaton.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

chuasam said:


> Actually... More like I avoid reading ads when possible. The ads you pointed out were either a long time ago or for a market demographic that I am not a part of.
> I have absolutely no interest in football either.
> Put it this way, now that I know of those ads I shall avoid getting those particular models too.
> 
> ...


Dont you think your the one getting the raw deal disowning everything celebrities wear? It's one thing not to give a hoot about advertisement, but to have such a strong stance and not buy watches just because it is advertised... seems like you being told what to do... but the opposite. Buy what you like and don't care what they do, either way.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

I think people are over thinking this two much, you can pull any brand of anything apart if you try, Tag Heuer position within the market is what makes them a target for hate, they are at the low end of the luxury market, if you look at brands like Oris, Hamilton, longiness, these are considered good value, ok and to be honest they all make very good watches. Anyone buying one of these will get a great watch that will last years and years to come, if not a life time, why then don't more of us buy them, it's simply all in the name. Look at what I'm wearing, the same as diamonds are better than crystals. It's in the eye of the beholder 


You then get Tag Heuer who market within the next level up but not at omega or Rolex level and because of this they stand in a no mans land, a place where they update the lines allot to keep up with current trends giving it the fashion brand name. They also have never recovered from the Technical advent grade (TAG) take over in the 80s, people didn't like the way the Heuer brand was thrown into the quartz age. 


They don't help themselves selling coats, glasses, wallets and phones, never understood the phones thing. 


The other point which has come to light, one which I knew about but didn't add much weight to is the decision to use plastic spacers in some of the cheaper automatic watches, while as I've stated before such part could be replaced years down the line its clear this is a cost cutting measure which other brands don't do, for one if said parts were a shock protection device then why wouldn't Tag Heuer mention such a thing, they don't, further more I've asked the question directly to their head office and received no response, they have been fast enough in the past to answer questions but not this one which has very much disappointed me as I've brought 4 tags brand new in the last 10 years and countless second hand. I can't defend this point anymore because in watches of this price point cost cutting shouldn't be there. 


I'm still a great fan of tag heuer, I love some of their watch designs and think they make great looking watches. I also think the quality of the dial work is right up there with Omega if not better. 


For me I think you should just buy the watch you want, the watch that makes you feel happy, caring what others think will never lead to happiness.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

Richerson said:


> I'm still a great fan of tag heuer, I love some of their watch designs and think they make great looking watches. I also think the quality of the dial work is right up there with Omega if not better.


Exactly what make me buy my F1. Dial is exceptionally detailed and seems high quality. Reminds me of the quartz [Omega] Seamasters which I also have a great love for.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

Yep - i had a F1 which i brought in 2005 and never took it off for 7 years, that black bezel looked like the day i brought it when i sold it on, those are some of the tuffest bezels in the business, the quartz F1s are super hard wearing. people dismiss them due to them being quartz but i don't think you can get a better beater watch then one of those, if you pick one up second hand or at a discount when the lines change you are buying a great no fuss watch.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Richerson said:


> Yep - i had a F1 which i brought in 2005 and never took it off for 7 years, *that black bezel looked like the day i brought it when i sold it on*, those are some of the tuffest bezels in the business, the quartz F1s are super hard wearing. people dismiss them due to them being quartz but i don't think you can get a better beater watch then one of those, if you pick one up second hand or at a discount when the lines change you are buying a great watch no fuss watch.


surprising that you say that considering that it is _just_ a painted metal part.
did you get the rubber bumper one?
did you suffer from er, "rubber rot"?


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

they aren't painted - they are carbon PVD bezel, I was hard on the watch and the bezel never marked

buttttttttt

yes the rubber rotted, not loads but it rotted and was showing a bit of metal, lucky for me at the last battery change the local guy completely destroyed the case back and agreed to have it serviced at his cost which included a replacement of the case middle, when it came back it looked brand new, it was actually the reason I sold it because I knew 10 years down the line it would be impossible to replace.

the new F1's don't have this issue, but then again I only paid £375 for the F1 brand new at discount so it doesn't O me anything, I sold it on for £275, not bad for 7 years usage


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Richerson said:


> *they aren't painted - they are carbon PVD bezel*, I was hard on the watch and the bezel never marked
> 
> buttttttttt
> 
> ...


ok, that I didn't know.
It was never a watch on my radar so I know very little about it.

I only saw the detail about the rubber bumpers and my head automatically thought it was possibly a bit of a daft move. I'm surprised that we've only seen one report of the 500m bezel displaying material break down. I know that it's probably some high density silicon that is very non-reactive but still...


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

I agree there about the 500m but the rubber is sunk in the bezel where's the rubber side's on the older f1s are sticking out and asking for wear, that's why it only lasted a couple of yeas and was soon replaced, I think the model lasted from 2004-2006, you could pick them up super cheap after that. Never gave it any thought until I returned from a hot holiday, many hot tubs and a lot of snorkelling, on the return in 2010 I noticed a small bit of the rubber had come off, after it started rotting it just disintegrated around the crown guard, the other side was perfect tho. I had plans to replace the rubber with pencil erases cut to size and glued in. I think it would have worked.


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

> And as I said before, when I see someone with a TAG, they are far less likely to know anything about watches than when I see someone wearing, say, a Tudor..


You are aware that the exalted "Tudor" uses ETA 2824-2 in the Black Bay Heritage and Pelagos, don't you?


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

CombatMarine said:


> You are aware that the exalted "Tudor" uses ETA 2824-2 in the Black Bay Heritage and Pelagos, don't you?


I'd like this thread to be an honest discussion about Tag without taking shots at other brands.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Norm S (Nov 24, 2013)

To get us back on a friendlier side. Heres my aquaracer 300m chrono. My first watch that i bought retail in denmark (foolish choice that EU tax killed me especially considering i was going to hong kong afterwards). The watch that got me into watches and led to my current collection that includes a speedy and black bay. Both very loved here on WUS. But in the end i love my tag equally among those. Just such a nicely built and finished diver. And my "drunk" watch hahaha that i know can survive all its knocks (physical or emotional, considering all the TAG haters on WUS) and keep on ticking.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BHL (Dec 26, 2010)

Back in 2010 I bought a brand new TAG Heuer Carrera Calibre 16 watch from an authorized dealer for less than $3000 including the sales tax. It is from the last generation watches with see thru caseback (CV2010-3) before they switched to the steel caseback with Fangio engraving. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. I'd say that the material and workmanship on TAG Heuer watches are on par with watches from Omega.
I really like Monaco, but now the msrp is $6300 which to me seems excessive for the watch. I want to ask you this since you own one. Do you think it is good enough watch for the price TAG Heuer is asking?


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

BHL said:


> Back in 2010 I bought a brand new TAG Heuer Carrera Calibre 16 watch from an authorized dealer for less than $3000 including the sales tax. It is from the last generation watches with see thru caseback (CV2010-3) before they switched to the steel caseback with Fangio engraving. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. I'd say that the material and workmanship on TAG Heuer watches are on par with watches from Omega.
> I really like Monaco, but now the msrp is $6300 which to me seems excessive for the watch. I want to ask you this since you own one. Do you think it is good enough watch for the price TAG Heuer is asking?


That's a good question and I don't have a real answer for you. On one hand, you can get Carreras with the 1887 movement for less than that, so it is pretty obvious that the Monaco charges a premium for the Steve McQueen collection. It also built very well, you can tell immediately that is is rock solid. To be fair, I haven't handled enough $5-6k chronographs to give an accurate answer.

While it retails for $6300, I got mine for a pretty good deal. The discount I got contributed to my decision. I think it's worth what I paid, but I couldn't tell you if it's truly worth full MSRP.


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

WillMK5 said:


> I'd like this thread to be an honest discussion about Tag without taking shots at other brands.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Excuse me, read the quote I was responding to, he took a shot at Tag and then seemingly praised Tudor, when indeed they both use the same movements.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

BHL said:


> I really like Monaco, but now the msrp is $6300 which to me seems excessive for the watch. I want to ask you this since you own one. Do you think it is good enough watch for the price TAG Heuer is asking?


The Monaco seems like a very popular watch and most likely will be... forever. Buy a nice pre-owned one for half the price and watch it increase in value over the decades to come.

Did this with my planet ocean Omega. Never intended to sell it but after a few years when I did, it was nice to have a profit that covered almost my new Tag


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## dero (Nov 4, 2011)

WIS bashing on TAG Heuer is the proverbial circle jerk.

Do it often enough then they get to enjoy the fruits of their labour all over each other.

Watch hobbyists have so far been the only ones I have encountered who are so radically extreme about their love and hate for particular brands and they will go through all sorts of descriptive reasons as to why to justify their position. Ultimately all these justifications are just a case of autofelatio because they need to reinforce in their minds that their love, grails and purchases are what they are and justify their money in spending on them.

Sticking tiers against brands is another case of time wasting because ultimately they all are about as accurate as each other. If they weren't accurate, they wouldn't be purchased by the public. An automatic watch isn't accurate. A quartz watch is more accurate. There's just the romance and intrinsic joy in holding onto and owning a piece which you enjoy and nothing else.

Compare brands as much as you like but it doesn't really matter what you do, WIS types will continue to find reasons why TAG Heuer needs to be beat down to justify their own feelings.

I enjoy TAG Heuer. Before I finished my first degree, I was told by my parents that I can receive a gift from them. I chose an S/el. I could have chosen anything else, but I simply liked the look of it. I subsequently wore the watch for close to 15 years when my now-wife bought me a Link. I consequently got hooked into it all and swapped it over to a Carrera 1887. Intrinsically there is absolutely nothing wrong with the watch. It's designed well. It's been engineered to be very durable, wearable and comfortable. I won't argue if it's more comfortable than any other watch of any other brand because it's a very subjective matter and how your wrist is shaped. I now know there are a whole host of other watch making companies vying for my money but despite everything and whatever controversy that is stirred up by the hornets nest of WIS, TAG Heuer still holds a special particular place in my kit-bag of desires in this world.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

I finally received a reply from tag heuer yesterday, the email has come directly from Switzerland customer service administrator. All names and emails/phone numbers have been removed and replaced with Tag Heuer & Richerson

Id first like to say he's a real gentleman for taking time to reply, the response is open for debate and I really hope people enjoy this and offer good open honest constructive replies

First reply from Tag Heuer on the 3rd March

_Dear Richerson_
_
_
_First of all, we apologize for the time taken to give you an answer. _
_
_
_Be assured that the choice of material use for each components is discussed and analysed very carefully. _
_
_
_The quality of our product as well as our customer satisfaction are paramount for TAG Heuer. We want to reassure you that the decision to use plastic circle does not diminish the quality or solidity of watches. We confirm that the technical and mechanical criteria as well as the reliability of the plastic circle are identical to the criteria of the brass-nickle plated circle. _
_
_
_We hope that our above comments will reassure you and to keep you as a loyal ambassador for many years to come. _
_
_
_Yours sincerely, _
_
_
_Tag Heuer _

My follow up question from last night

_Dear Tag Heuer _
_
_
_Thank you for the response, I fully understand why it would take time to respond. _
_
_
_I have a few questions if possible why use plastic spacers when they have the same technical & mechanical criteria to brass-nickel plated circle, this surely doesn't look good when on-line reviewers will take such watches apart to give a full review. _
_
_
_For 99% of your customers they will never concern themselves with the inside of a watch but for people like myself who enjoy watches it's disappointing for what appears like cost cutting inside a expensive watch. _
_
_
_The last point is the long term effects of these plastic spacers, do they dry out and become brittle with age, and require replacing. _
_
_
_I'm sorry for the questions, I honestly feel tag heuer make some of the nicest watches on the market right now with excellent dial & case work, I'm just trying to get my head around the logic of why Tag Heuer do these things, it's not helping your image among real watch enthusiasts _
_
_
_Yours sincerely

Richerson_

And the reply to that email received today - fast response time once you have a direct emails address

_Dear Richerson_
_
_
_Please be kindly informed that the necessity to replace the circle is determined during the regular service maintenance suggested. This is the same process as for the brass-nickle plated circle. _
_
_
_Effectively, we suggest to proceed to a maintenance service every 1-2 years to guarantee the waterproofness of the watch as well as a complete overhaul every 4-6 years to guarantee the good working of the movement. Before each intervention, our watchmaker proceed to an analysis and this is at this moment that he is able to determine which parts have to be replaced or not. If the circle has to be replaced, it is included in the maintenance. _
_
_
_We thank you for your faith in our brand. _
_
_
_Yours sincerely,

Tag Heuer _

So everyone please discuss.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Plastic spacers have been used since the original TAGHeuer watches; that is over thirty years ago.

How many complaints today, about those 30 year old watches, do you hear about them failing?


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

I believe tag heuer stock parts for 20 years after the product has stop being made.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

The emails, as expected, seem to defect the question and try to assure you of their quality without backing it up by engineering. If you are after any real-world stats, I suggest starting a thread about watch movements that do use the plastic circles and ask owners if a) they ever had issues and b) how often they are replaced under servicing. A good opportunity for a sensible Poll.


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## dero (Nov 4, 2011)

Can I ask why is it so vitally important to know why the material of spacer is used?

Does it change the quality or value you hold within the piece? Is it something that other manufacturers don't do? Or is it just another liner which snobs can look down their nose at and say naughty naughty because my holy grail watch company would never do that!

Seems to me that if a plastic spacer was used to keep a movement in place within a case of specified size, then the choice that was made was weighed up in consideration on the various materials at hand and the best fit for purpose was then chosen for the job. I fail to see why this would be such a big deal.


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

dero said:


> Can I ask why is it so vitally important to know why the material of spacer is used?


Pointless discussion about parts that have no huge bearing on the overall watch is what separates a WIS from the animals.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

dero said:


> Can I ask why is it so vitally important to know why the material of spacer is used?
> 
> Does it change the quality or value you hold within the piece? Is it something that other manufacturers don't do? Or is it just another liner which snobs can look down their nose at and say naughty naughty because my holy grail watch company would never do that!
> 
> Seems to me that if a plastic spacer was used to keep a movement in place within a case of specified size, then the choice that was made was weighed up in consideration on the various materials at hand and the best fit for purpose was then chosen for the job. I fail to see why this would be such a big deal.


Just read the thread "why the hate" it goes into great detail about the possible negative effects such a spacer could have, but that all being said I don't think watches at this price point should be using cheaper plastic parts at all, oris, Hamilton, longines, even Christopher Ward don't - so why does tag heuer.

I stated I'm sure a good watch maker if required could replace such a part, although I admit this isn't conclusive without conducting a very expensive experiment. It's just disappointing.

In quartz watches it doesn't bother me because you know what you are buying, in an swiss automatic, no


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

Richerson said:


> In quartz watches it doesn't bother me because you know what you are buying, in an swiss automatic, no


Hmmm.... again this type of statement that Automatic watches are something special when a quartz isnt. Ok, the engineering/design of an Automatic is great, I respect that. But in monetary terms its not. Go google and look on ebay what brand new quartz movements that are in Tag Heuers sell for. Then find some common ETA movements found in TAG/Omega etc and google and ebay search the price for those. You will find tens of dollars worth of difference, not hundreds.

I'm happy to be shown wrong, but I did do the search when I thought my wife damaged her Tag Heuer quartz movement and was suprised it was under $50 for a new one. Then out of interested I picked a common ETA movement (I cant remember which one, probably something out of an Omega when they had ETA movements) and did the same and it was not too much more expensive. Maybe $50-$100 more if I remember.

I may be wrong. I'm here to learn as well as contribute.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

anonymousmoose said:


> Hmmm.... again this type of statement that Automatic watches are something special when a quartz isnt. Ok, the engineering/design of an Automatic is great, I respect that. But in monetary terms its not. Go google and look on ebay what brand new quartz movements that are in Tag Heuers sell for. Then find some common ETA movements found in TAG/Omega etc and google and ebay search the price for those. You will find tens of dollars worth of difference, not hundreds.
> 
> I'm happy to be shown wrong, but I did do the search when I thought my wife damaged her Tag Heuer quartz movement and was suprised it was under $50 for a new one. Then out of interested I picked a common ETA movement (I cant remember which one, probably something out of an Omega when they had ETA movements) and did the same and it was not too much more expensive. Maybe $50-$100 more if I remember.
> 
> I may be wrong. I'm here to learn as well as contribute.


I've possibly pick my words incorrectly, I for one do not hold automatic watches above quartz, quartz watches have great advantages over automatics and picking which watch suits your needs is the right thing to do, I am fascinated in the small construction of automatic watches which is why I enjoy them over quartz watches on a personal level.

I may not get what I'm say across well but when a person who knows watches buys a quartz watch its reasonable to think that such a movement would incorporates plastic parts, quartz movements come in all shapes and sizes and ready available so in 20 years time I'm sure if the movement required complete replacement I'd think (maybe wrong) such a task would be easier to do.

When you buy an automatic piece, you are normal like myself interested in how these movements work but also are buying a fairly expensive watch, so it comes as a disappointment when you realise that the company responsible are cutting costs in a luxury item, it almost feels like they aren't catering for watch enthusiasts and just selling watches to the larger populace who are clueless and just buying products on the name alone.


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

anonymousmoose said:


> Pointless discussion about parts that have no huge bearing on the overall watch is what separates a WIS from the animals.


So true.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ErikS (May 21, 2009)

Well there's a lot of reasons for this but one reason is it annoys the hell out of a lot of folks that Tag is so well known. Ask any non-WIS and they'll know a few watch brands - Citizen, Seiko, Rolex, and Tag. They might have heard of Omega but that's it. Another annoyance is that in the non-WIS mind Tag = Omega. Ask non-watch folks & they're certain Rolex is the best and both Tag & Omega luxury (expensive) Swiss brands. They have no clue as to different strata - imagine your annoyance paying double or more & in the eyes of most being the same.

Personally I find the whole "inhouse" rubbish funnier than brand bashing. Um, er, ah......is there anything else where we care so much about this? Can you imagine the laughter if oh, say, car folks paid that much attention? Just an example of this manure is the "2500" versus the "8500" in another forum. I love the "well, piff poff the 8500 is _*inhouse*_ and _*only*_ for this brand.......". LMAO - yeah because being based on a proven workhorse is so horrible.

Often I think WIS should be changed to WIT = Watch Idiot Tool 

(still can't quite grasp why anyone gives a damn what somebody _*else*_ is wearing)


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

I think it's nice to see other people wearing nice watches and start a conversation, I have no bias to any brand, and really enjoy looking at watches I've never seen or handled. 

I certainly don't bash people for what they are wearing, theres a guy in my office I see from time to time who wears a automatic Rado, not my cup of tea but he loves it and given its style it's very nice, I guess that makes me a tool


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## ErikS (May 21, 2009)

Richerson said:


> .......I certainly don't bash people for what they are wearing, theres a guy in my office I see from time to time who wears a automatic Rado, not my cup of tea but he loves it and given its style it's very nice, I guess that makes me a tool


Guess I wasn't clear........no, that's the opposite of a "tool". What I was referring to as a "tool" are the snobby folks who look down on a certain brand(s) based on price or some other silly criteria. A classic "tool" is in another forum - those who go on & on about how they'd never own a 2500 mvmt model as it's based on an ETA movement (the tool who says ETA...eew. yuck).


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## TAG1976 (Oct 20, 2008)

My guess is 99% of TAG owners do no bother what inside their watch.
99% of people buy them because it’s a well-known Swiss brand and it looks cool. 
I was one of them when I bought my TAG Formula 1 Quartz Watch in 1993.
I was happy chap and still happy owner despite I do not wear it as often as I should these days.

The same things can be said to the minced beef I bought from the supermarket last night.
I just picked up a pack of 100% British Extra Lean Minced Beef (Used By 08/03/14). That’s all I know and that’s all I care.

I do not bother how this mince was prepared, which machine was used, where the cattle was raised or which slaughter house was used etc…..
Maybe some people care and lots of discussion’s going on Minced Beef Forum…..


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

TAG1976 said:


> My guess is 99% of TAG owners do no bother what inside their watch.
> 99% of people buy them because it's a well-known Swiss brand and it looks cool.
> I was one of them when I bought my TAG Formula 1 Quartz Watch in 1993.
> I was happy chap and still happy owner despite I do not wear it as often as I should these days.
> ...


BeefUSeek.com?


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## justbecauseIcan (May 8, 2013)

Entertaining thought... people posting pictures of their daily mince meals, Affordable mince section, High-end mince,... 

It's true that most people have no clue what's inside, or care, but they will all assume that watch companies do everything in-house and you can almost always burst a major bubble when you tell them that their "expensive" watch shares it's insides with something that the (obviously) pretentious ..... of an owner would look down upon. 

It's like finding out that what you thought is 100% British Extra Lean Minced Beef is 100% Repackaged Ordinary Mass Produced Fatty Beef and the mark up rests on the extra colourful packaging.


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## ErikS (May 21, 2009)

justbecauseIcan said:


> .................It's true that most people have no clue what's inside, or care, but they will all assume that watch companies do everything in-house and you can almost always burst a major bubble when you tell them that their "expensive" watch shares it's insides with something that the (obviously) pretentious ..... of an owner would look down upon.....


Which is to a certain extent the fault of the watch manufacturers themselves - it is they who put forth the myth that they're fashioned by magical little gnomes in a tree.

The material used can also be ignorance. I've seen that in many a forum - the perception that a certain material is worse or improper for the job. Sometimes it is just cheap but other times it's used because it's effective. For example a certain chrono movement has a plastic part(s) - used because it's very good for the job. So a plastic spacer is used? I've seen that in some fairly expensive watches..........it's, gasp, effective. Provides better shock absorbsion & has some other properties that are better than metal & added bonus it can be cheaper.

And anyone who looks down on an ETA 2824 or 2893 is the afore mentioned tool. Few, if any, movements have proven their worth as well as those two. Easy to get serviced, can be made as accurate as any and durable as the day is long = what more could one want?


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

ErikS said:


> Provides better shock absorbsion & has some other properties that are better than metal & added bonus it can be cheaper.


i don't think it does, tag heuer don't advertise this wonderful fact, it's simple used because it makes the manufacturing process easier.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

As I said in the other thread, to label it as cost cutting is misleading.
They have been using them since day one.

Cost cutting would be a switch from one to the other to reduce cost; this is more a case of legacy use.
Let's say you were employed at a company for thirty years.
A new graduate is employed at new salary rates that are actually higher than your own; you are not there because of cost cutting are you?

You know there are some things that are said to be so stupid that it is not worth discussing; this is one of them.

Cost cutting is when there is a more expensive method in place which is replaced by a cheaper alternative.
Not adding cost is not the same thing and I find that the originator's insistence on the phrasing to be indicative of the agenda behind it. And let's be clear on this, literally _*one*_ person has made this an issue.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

I completely agree it makes not much difference to some people, I won't labour the point and send this thread into a circle like the last one. 

After all I still own tag heuer watches with the part and it's not going to change any time soon or stop me buying one at the right price.

One my other point, anyone know why tag heuer make phones, I mean they can't have all the functionality of the latest iPhone etc.


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

Richerson said:


> One my other point, *anyone know why tag heuer make phones, I mean they can't have all the functionality of the latest iPhone etc*.


Not the same market.
The USP of the TAGHeuer phones is similar to the Vertu phones and in particular, the Concierge service.
I was talking to one of the managers about this and he agrees; those who can afford that sort of thing usually have their own Concierge service anyway except they're called Personal Assistants. There is the kinda throw-away marketing spiel about them being properly designed quality/luxury items that shouldn't be treated in the same disposable way that modern everyday phones are, that I kind of get but I'm not entirely convinced about.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

drunken monkey said:


> Not the same market.
> The USP of the TAGHeuer phones is similar to the Vertu phones and in particular, the Concierge service.
> I was talking to one of the managers about this and he agrees; those who can afford that sort of thing usually have their own Concierge service anyway except they're called Personal Assistants. There is the kinda throw-away marketing spiel about them being properly designed quality/luxury items that shouldn't be treated in the same disposable way that modern everyday phones are, that I kind of get but I'm not entirely convinced about.


Makes sense, or that's some people have none, they clearly sell because the've been doing phones for awhile now, to be honestly I haven't used one, I tell you one thing tho, they still won't get a good signal down my local pub at the back by the pool table, NASA couldn't invent something to get a single there. (This isn't always a bad thing)


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## dero (Nov 4, 2011)

TAG1976 said:


> My guess is 99% of *watch buyers* do no bother what inside their watch.
> 99% of people buy them because it's a well-known Swiss brand and it looks cool.


Fixed this for you.

Don't place the WIS hate bunch outside of the crowd. They and only they have this ardent desire to find reason to hate the brand.


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## CombatMarine (May 21, 2013)

justbecauseIcan said:


> Entertaining thought... people posting pictures of their daily mince meals, Affordable mince section, High-end mince,...
> 
> It's true that most people have no clue what's inside, or care, but they will all assume that watch companies do everything in-house and you can almost always burst a major bubble when you tell them that their "expensive" watch shares it's insides with something that the (obviously) pretentious ..... of an owner would look down upon.
> 
> It's like finding out that what you thought is 100% British Extra Lean Minced Beef is 100% Repackaged Ordinary Mass Produced Fatty Beef and the mark up rests on the extra colourful packaging.


I think we call your minced beef, ground beef over here in the states. I'm sure none of us wants to go to the slaughter house to see how the hamburger meat is really made, I wouldn't doubt if they threw the horns, hoofs and hide into the grinder too.

Sort of like that black "synthetic" shock absorber they put in as the case holder in my Tag.


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## justbecauseIcan (May 8, 2013)

I once had a guided tour through a sausage factory as a kid (dad's company sold enterprise resource planning software to various industries) and I didn't eat any sausages for about a year after that. Nasty stuff makes it in. Yeah, kind of like the plastic spacers. 

I guess a TAG is like a sausage then! Tastes good as long as you don't know what's inside


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

Richerson said:


> I completely agree it makes not much difference to some people, I won't labour the point and send this thread into a circle like the last one.
> 
> After all I still own tag heuer watches with the part and it's not going to change any time soon or stop me buying one at the right price.
> 
> One my other point, anyone know why tag heuer make phones, I mean they can't have all the functionality of the latest iPhone etc.


My best guess would be that the parrent company, LVMH Moët Hennessy, us building the Tag Heuer brand to be something associated with more that just watches. Marketing that a watch company can also be a luxury goods company.


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## beeman101 (Nov 16, 2013)

anonymousmoose said:


> My best guess would be that the parrent company, LVMH Moët Hennessy, us building the Tag Heuer brand to be something associated with more that just watches. Marketing that a watch company can also be a luxury goods company.


I agree..... case in point
Montblanc.......i have a wallet/ ss credit card holder and a pen (obviously you might say) of the brand ! I think they are doing cologne now too ! imho i don't think there's anything wrong with Luxury brands wanting to expand as long as they do a good job of it and not lend their name to a product which doesn't live up to their brand preception or standing.

It's like Rolls Royce bringing out a range of 20$ pens....:-d If they do venture into that they will have to bring in something that relates to their brand image of hand built products with the highest quality materials, innovation maybe ! to some extent. Exclusivness,,,,in terms of having to wait for your product. etc......

Hope this made sense....in my mind it usually does...:think:


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## dero (Nov 4, 2011)

Bashing TAG for coming out with gear which isn't a wristwatch and not doing so on Omega or Patek for their cufflinks and other associated paraphernalia (or any other watch company which does the same) you see in the boutiques is a bit hypocritical IMO.


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## ErikS (May 21, 2009)

CombatMarine said:


> I think we call your minced beef, ground beef over here in the states. I'm sure none of us wants to go to the slaughter house to see how the hamburger meat is really made, I wouldn't doubt if they threw the horns, hoofs and hide into the grinder too.
> 
> Sort of like that black "synthetic" shock absorber they put in as the case holder in my Tag.


No need to go to the slaughter house, simply go to the FDA's website & see the specifications. I'm sure there's a % allowed, as there is for "foreign" material (like flies). Now maybe most don't want to read that......... 

Me I don't care, I like a good burger. Same as I'm okay with a plastic spacer - lol - long as it does the job I just don't care.


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

:-! Oops... forgot to quote for context.


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

justbecauseIcan said:


> I once had a guided tour through a sausage factory as a kid (dad's company sold enterprise resource planning software to various industries) and I didn't eat any sausages for about a year after that. Nasty stuff makes it in. Yeah, kind of like the plastic spacers.
> 
> I guess a TAG is like a sausage then! Tastes good as long as you don't know what's inside


 Maybe that's why Rolex won't allow anyone to see the mostly automated mass production line in the inner depths of their factory where more than a million watches are assembled a year... it may jeopardize a bit of their mystique much like hot dog sausages don't taste so good anymore for some people once they've seen how they are made.

I know it's ears, toes, noses, etc in hot dogs but I still like to eat them. At least TAG is a bit more honest about the ingredients of their sausages;p


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## Maiden (Sep 19, 2014)

Hi this issue has always puzzled me a bit as well. The OP outlines six points where some people may consider valid reasons to dislike the brand. While none of those bother me, that is ok as we are all entitled to our own opinions. What I think surprises many is there seems to be a larger crowd that goes out of their way to make sure their disdain is known, often by providing hypocritical or non thought out critiques. I saw a post recently where a member stated he was an Omega fan and what he hated about Tag Heuer was that they name their different movement numbers by Caibres ,which in his opinion was a way to deceive the consumer into thinking they were original movements. Now we all know many brands provide names to their calibres, including Omega, which are modified ETA movements. Its this kind of hypocrisy that is unfortunate. I think a lot of this stems from the fact that Tag Heuer is very successful in their niche and often the "big boy" gets targeted.

In any event, to each their own. I own two Tag Heuers a Rolex, and a Bulova. I love them all.


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## justbecauseIcan (May 8, 2013)

Maiden said:


> I saw a post recently where a member stated he was an Omega fan and what he hated about Tag Heuer was that they name their different movement numbers by Caibres ,which in his opinion was a way to deceive the consumer into thinking they were original movements.


May have been me? I said something like that on the side, which is not exclusive to TAG. They just do it a bit louder than others, putting an unmodified (apart from the brand name in the rotor) into a case, then putting Calibre xy all over the dial, and employing snobby sales staff in their boutiques that try everything to uphold the mystery.

I've owned plenty of TAGs in the past and I am now of the opinion that anyone could happily skip TAG ownership in their watch history. I am keen to express this opinion, not to upset the fanboys, but to give those that are on the fence another opinion apart from the constant enablers of said fanboys.


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

justbecauseIcan said:


> They just do it a bit louder than others, putting an unmodified (apart from the brand name in the rotor) into a case, then putting Calibre xy all over the dial, and employing snobby sales staff in their boutiques that try everything to uphold the mystery.


Fair point there, I'm not an avid horologist so lack the emotional attachment and appreciation for brand history of a proper time piece enthusiast. As an impartial consumer you're correct wrt the trend of OTT markings displayed on watches to make sure everyone can notice the expensive watch on your wrist.

About year ago I purchased the new style ceramic bezel 500m Aquaracer auto (despite not liking all the celebrity endorsement ads for the brand) specifically because it was so much more understated than it's predecessor and competitors, most would not notice it isn't the entry level quartz model, I really like that. Brands like Omega and Breitling, etc are all good and probably superior watches but they have been moving in the opposite direction and are becoming far too flash/blingy to my novice eyes.

I'm a big car enthusiast which is not a logical passion to most reasonable people who view them as simply vehicles to transport them from A to B so can I relate. I ran an Alfa Romeo V6 for quite a few years with running costs per year about 50% the resale value of the vehicle, it was not much faster than a Golf 6 GTi for example but I loved it due to my admiration for it's engine which was a small masterpiece (based on my illogical love for cars). Most will question the reasoning and sanity for running my present car out of warranty too no doubt, $1500 a service and 15 litres per 100km fuel consumption they're probably correct.


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

PS;-) Fully agree with the point regarding snobby sales staff.

I bought my watch at TH boutique shop/AD in Qatar last time I was there as a colleague advised me mid to high end watches were in general a worthwhile fraction less expensive there than most places (for reference a quick bit of research revealed they were at least 40% dearer in an authorized dealer in my home country).

Perhaps it was because I was wearing a T-shirt, short pants and flip flops at the time (I can picture some of the more fashion conscious members of WUS recoiling at this blatant social faux pas :-d) but I walked in knew what I wanted, had a look at the blue dial/bezel version, decided I preferred the black combo and they were completely taken aback when I said thanks I'll take this one please and was in and out within 10 minutes.

Surely good sales staff selling luxury goods should know in general most people with the means to purchase said items are less likely to be dressed up to the nines as they feel no need to impress people:-s Walk into a Porsche dealership and they will be keen to let you test drive their cars regardless of wether you're in a suit or barefoot...


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

Grommet said:


> PS;-) Fully agree with the point regarding snobby sales staff.
> 
> I bought my watch at TH boutique shop/AD in Qatar last time I was there as a colleague advised me mid to high end watches were in general a worthwhile fraction less expensive there than most places (for reference a quick bit of research revealed they were at least 40% dearer in an authorized dealer in my home country).
> 
> ...


I have no idea what you are on about, all I know is this forum is for the people who enjoy and love discussing Tag Heuer watches, if people don't like the brand for whatever reason then just move along to a different forum.


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

Sorry for that I did ramble on a bit about brand snobbery and went a bit off topic in that that last post I do like TAG Heuer watches though otherwise I wouldn't have bought one.

Edit: Hang on a moment reading back through the topic and related threads I retract my apology as it seems to me what you love discussing about Tag Heuer watches are pedantic points wrt the failings of the brand displaying the snobbery I was talking about. Pot, kettle, black?


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## Norm S (Nov 24, 2013)

I think this watch seller snobbery is a bit of an over statement. Its like that through most of the brands. I was in hongkong last year looking to buy an IWC Aquatimer. And even in hongkong the city that sells the most swiss watches in the world they have snobby salespeople. The only ADs that arent snobby ive found are the super high end stuff. Like AP, VC, Piaget, PP, etc. 
i think tag just shows this more among the WIS cause theyre already the standard whipping boy. And theyre relatively low end in the luxury watch segment. So they do get customers lookig for brand name at the lowest price, hence their base quartz models. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

Yes good point there, they no doubt regularly have to accommodate people who walk in to try on 10 different watches wasting their time and never actually purchase anything or maybe eventually buys a piece which has a low profit margin using up more of the shops time and effort than is worth their while. Maybe the shop I went to had a stream of window shoppers prior to me so I took them off guard by actually buying something.

As I said I did go off topic a bit there by expressing my opinion wrt snobbery in general. 

Funny you mention it I bought a Citizen Stiletto(not a very expensive watch) in Hong Kong and after having a look at it told the dealer I'll probably come back a bit later to buy it, maybe I look like a bit of a bum as they seemed surprised when I did

True about the super high end brands but they only need to sell a hand full of $50k+ watches a week to remain in profit so they can afford potential "time wasting" clients.


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## justbecauseIcan (May 8, 2013)

In addition, the high end brand know that a large percentage of window shoppers will remember their service and return or not depending on it when the has come for them to turn into customers. 

I also found that the staff employed at the good watch stores is there on a very long-term basis, and they have a sound knowledge of brands that they are not selling, always quick to know and compliment what's on your wrist. I've been at low to mid end boutiques where they'd show me a piece that's priced at a fraction of what I was wearing in a way that seemed like they show me the holy grail and it must be the nicest piece of horology I've ever seen (granted, I'm in my early 20s) - but then again the high end watch store is absolutely happy to chat about nice pieces and even show me complicated Patek's without me really asking, just to discuss layers of finishing and refinement. 

Similar to car dealerships, the good sales people know how they have to treat you, whether you're buying now or not.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

I still have no idea what you guys are talking about


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## drunken monkey (Jun 22, 2011)

On a Tagheuer forum, telling people that you tell people not to buy Tagheuer watches.

Right, so you're _that_ kind of Rolex owner that people keep talking about.


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## Jpstepancic (Jun 26, 2013)

I tried following a lot of the conversations here and thought I'd give my $.02.

in high school, I saw the monaco for the first time, and it was love at first sight. As I got older I developed a love for watches, cars, motorsport but more importantly, motorsport history. Naturally, by deduction, I had a great admiration for many of the Heuer/TH designs. I say designs because til this day, I really don't fully understand all the parts of a working movement. So I guess naturally, all I'm really worried about is if it tells time.


i will admit I am a sucker for sporty watches and anything with a lineage to racing. So in 2008, after graduating school, and saving my money, I went out a got myself a McQueen monaco and I will be buried in it. It will be my forever Grail and that's all there is to it. 

With that said, WUS has helped me realize a thing or two about watches. Most relevant to this topic is the bit about price. Since joining this forum, I have not bought a new watch. I've probably owned and sold around 15 watches since, but they've all been pre owned. So it got me thinking, why would I spend $5k on a new tag when for much less I could find an even rarer more impressive tag on the forum. 

So so just last week, I became the proud owner of the siffert autavia reissue for a smige over $2k. My girlfriend said she had never seen me smile so much opening a new (to me) watch. And really, isn't that what this forum is all about? Everyone on here has a different itch to scratch. Rolex. Panerai. Seikos. Countless homages. If someone has a tag, there clearly was a reason for them picking it up. Their reasoning may not hold as much water as others would like, but I wouldn't deny any member a smile like the one I had a day or two ago simply because it stemmed from a watch that I wouldn't have In my box. That is all. Carry on chaps.


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

durp... again missed quote for context


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

drunken monkey said:


> On a Tagheuer forum, telling people that you tell people not to buy Tagheuer watches.
> 
> Right, so you're _that_ kind of Rolex owner that people keep talking about.


Thanks for the clarification there That was my understanding about what we were talking about as well, it seemed fairly clear.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

I think a lot of it is WUS group think. I think a lot of people still think of Tag and cheap quartz models of the 80's. They compare Tag's entry priced offerings against other brands premium stuff. This is a company that has made some amazing movements like the mikrotimer, mikrograph, and the belt driven V4.

Tag takes a lot of crap for things other manufactures are doing. What watch company hasn't used or isn't still using ETA movements? You don't see people putting down IWC, Panerai, Breitling or Tudor for doing it. I love hearing complaints about their marketing. What major brand isn't marking and using celebrities?

I put some comments to your thoughts below.



WillMK5 said:


> I think the overall criticisms of Tag can be listed and some seem to hold more weight than others do, at least to me. It seems like the most common knocks against Tag Heuer are:
> 
> 
> They spend more money on advertising than they do on their watches. How would anyone know that?
> ...


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

At the end of the day you buy the watch YOU want and you shouldn't give a t*ss if anyone else doesn't like it.

Im looking to buy one of these because I personally think it looks stunning, I'm sure there a lot of brand snobs who would laugh, do I care - NO


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

Perseus said:


> I put some comments to your thoughts below.


I want to respond. I just want to say that the list I created isn't how I feel. Just a summary of things I have observed.



> I think the overall criticisms of Tag can be listed and some seem to hold more weight than others do, at least to me. It seems like the most common knocks against Tag Heuer are:
> 
> 
> They spend more money on advertising than they do on their watches. How would anyone know that? No clue, although I'm sure if you dig deeper, it's public information.
> ...


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

WillMK5 said:


> I want to respond. I just want to say that the list I created isn't how I feel. Just a summary of things I have observed.


Gotcha. I really do feel that Tag takes a lot if crap on WUS for reasons that don't get applied to other brands.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

I agree a lot of brands have the same issues, but Tag don't help themselves really, selling sun glasses, phones and leather jackets is mind blogging, I get jewellery but phones.


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## Finhook (Jan 13, 2015)

They are a corporation owned by a corporation, therefore they seek increasing sales volume, shareholders demand increased profit. So, they cannot maintain a 'hull speed' that is a comfortable, steady profit, and mildly increasing annual sales and exemplary quality, like a business run by an individual can. 

So, to increase sales figures, they offer 'entry level' product. This succeeds in a large part because of the brand's (former) reputation for quality, performance, and exclusivity. 

It happens everywhere, Porsche, Mercedes, and Cadillac come to mind with their ‘entry level’ products (that the dealers as often as not snub the owners of). Yes, they increase sales, but they do, certainly in the eyes of the original users, cheapen they brand. 

The use of watch off brands like Tudor or Caravelle is, in my eyes, a more reasoned means of increasing sales without cheapening the reputation of the original. In these two cases (and there are others I know) you get a better-than-average watch, and if you’re in the know, you can tell them you’re wearing a Rolex, or Bulova, or Movado off-brand. 

So, yeah, I agree that sticking your name on something because people will buy it (especially if its cheap) is myopic. It’s the mentality of people wearing fake Breitlings which is, “Look at me, I’ve got a brand name,” which works until they realise that the brand is no longer exclusive and then wearing the brand becomes an embarassment. 

There are those manufacturers that refuse to dilute their reputation or the quality of their brand, but they are few and far between. 

On the other end, you can argue that in most cases (ha ha) the bulk of your purchase price is in the case (and the ads, which also enrich and maintaine the brand), because we know the movements aren’t all that expensive and there aren’t many that make their own movements (ebauche movements don’t count, really, do they?).

It’s social, it’s fashion, it’s capitalist economics.


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## Finhook (Jan 13, 2015)

I am at an age where contrast and readability matter, this one wins. 

I especially like the fat, arrow hour hand because when you glance at the watch you can tell the time (with five or ten minutes) right away looking at that baby. Pragmatic, that. 

Never had a use for a tachymeter, but like the way the Russians don't start the count until ten seconds, and let what stops at the 12 position carry on (sometimes on the dial in a continuing spiral). This is practical.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

Bulova is not a luxury brand


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

Richerson said:


> I agree a lot of brands have the same issues, but Tag don't help themselves really, selling sun glasses, phones and leather jackets is mind blogging, I get jewellery but phones.


I agree. But they are getting rid of that now that Jean-Claude Biver is taking over. He agreed that it weakens the brand so it's getting the boot. Except for maybe eyewear, that might be staying. Can't remember the exact details.



Perseus said:


> Gotcha. I really do feel that Tag takes a lot if crap on WUS for reasons that don't get applied to other brands.


Completely agree. Since I bought my Monaco almost a year ago, I've become a fan boy. I've seen all the flack the brand gets that isn't warranted.


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

Finhook said:


> So, to increase sales figures, they offer 'entry level' product. This succeeds in a large part because of the brand's (former) reputation for quality, performance, and exclusivity.
> 
> It happens everywhere, Porsche, Mercedes, and Cadillac come to mind with their 'entry level' products (that the dealers as often as not snub the owners of). Yes, they increase sales, but they do, certainly in the eyes of the original users, cheapen they brand.
> 
> ...


Good point there in the car world pseudo "petrol heads" generally look down their noses and deride cars like a Porsche Boxster on the premise that they're not a "proper" Porsche and the driver probably just couldn't afford a 911 despite it being a superior car to it's direct competitors (Merc SLK, BMW Z4, etc). However it's models like the Boxster and Cayenne SUV (Now that received serious flak from purists on introduction) that have kept the brand profitable. They're not 911's no (the Caymen and Boxster are strangely these days closer to the original Porsche ethos than the current 911 though).

I do believe wearing a good watch like a Tudor but telling anyone "it's actually a Rolex you know" will perhaps make you look a bit of a tool though.

Erm... in all the regions not in the centre of the USA edition world map (you know the rest of the world) Cadillacs have always been known to be a bit rubbish since the 80's compared to their competitors, quality wise they're akin to a genuine gold plated "Bolex" that you have to stop wearing after 3 months because the "gold" has rubbed off 

Just kidding but on the same note I don't care that the car I drive looks very similar to the entry level version in it's model range but costs 4 times as much. I know what it is, I enjoy driving it and enthusiasts appreciate it for what it is.

PS: I believe most have a good understanding of what I'm talking about and how it correlates to the gist of the thread. If you have no idea please disregard this post.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

Grommet said:


> I do believe wearing a good watch like a Tudor but telling anyone "it's actually a Rolex you know" will perhaps make you look a bit of a tool though..


i couldn't agree more, Tudor make excellent watches but the brand will forever be in the Rolex shadow, sales staff don't help, I was looking at some Tudors before Christmas and the first thing the sales rep said was, "Do you know these are actually rolex swatches"


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## justbecauseIcan (May 8, 2013)

Grommet said:


> Good point there in the car world pseudo "petrol heads" generally look down their noses and deride cars like a Porsche Boxster on the premise that they're not a "proper" Porsche


I understand the sentiment towards the parts-bin that was the 986, but ever since the late 987, it nailed its competitors (coming from someone who chose a Z4 over it back then). But it's easy now. Pick those guys up in a 981 S and they will be quiet. No cheapening of the brand there, more like the best proposition they currently have in store.

Until very recently, Porsche did the same as Rolex/Tudor does, keeping the fine engines (movements) out of the base models. What if you drop a proper Rolex developed movement into a Tudor case?


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## Finhook (Jan 13, 2015)

In my circle of watch lovers it about mechanical watches, like it is with most, then quartz, but mostly only if it does tricks. Certainly Swiss jeweled quartz are better than most, but what I find bothersome is that Tags quartz movements should be special and they are not.

Timex makes a 7-year perpetual-calendar quartz driven watch, and now has their proprietary ‘Intelligent Quartz’, which is apparently both efficient and accurate and now have a chronograph with linear markers. Bulova makes a quartz watch that is accurate to within ten seconds a year (pretty impressive) AND it’s got a sweep second hand (the Precisionator II? ). Now there’s a couple of trick quartz watches. 

What has Tag Heuer got? Boring ordinary quartz when they should be leading the pack. C’mon. 

I have purchased Tags, three (four, if you count the Tag Edge case). All are quartz, but two for nieces (because they like the look, the heft, the story about the unidirectional bezel, the metal bands, and, as much as all of that, the cache), one is junk plastic (I a sure they are embarrassed at having sold it).

I like quality, I like progress.


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## parsec (Jan 16, 2015)

I'm new to the forum, though I've been lurking for some time. I have to say that I never understood the hate based on the branding of clothing. I mean, I get it but I don't. Let me clarify by pointing out that Ferrari has a store in Las Vegas that sells nothing but Ferrari branded items, such as key chains, hats, etc. They have cars, but my understanding is that they're actually NOT for sale and are for display only! Yet I don't hear anyone bashing the quality of Ferrari's cars because they also sell hats. So why does TAG Heuer get that treatment when Ferrari doesn't?

Personally I think the clothing was dumb, but I'm smart enough to know that has no bearing on the quality of the watches.


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## Finhook (Jan 13, 2015)

Parsec:

I'm not one to wear a brand as a badge of elitism, although many do, hence the proliferation of fake everything; in those cases it's about the brand not the guts.

What I think we are commenting on is the manufacturer compromising their integrity, jeopardizing their respected and admired quality for a fast buck. A fine line between expanding one's market and selling out. 

And as I said, a whole lot of watches are about the case, especially if they are carrying the same movements. 

Beauty, as they say, is in the eye (and mind) of the beholder. 

Finhook
Also a long time lurker.


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## parsec (Jan 16, 2015)

My point is that other brands play the same merchandising game, and they're given a pass. I've not come across anyone who says, "I'll never drive a Ferrari because they sell branded hats and key chains." People care about the quality of Ferrari's cars and that's it. BMW has quite a bit of merchandising going on too, but they also get a pass. Yet I've seen numerous posts from folks saying they'll never consider a Tag Heuer watch based simply on the fact that they brand items other than watches. Their arguments have NOTHING to do with the quality of the watch, just the fact that they disagree with Tag's marketing efforts. Why is it ok to give Ferrari, BMW, and numerous other companies a pass for their merchandising efforts, but not Tag?

Now if someone has an issue with the quality of Tag Heuer watches, that's another discussion. But quite often I see people dismiss Tag Heuer before it even gets to that point.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

I think Ferrari is a bad example, for one their cars are way out of budget even for us Rolex/Omega owners, secondly they don't just make cars they compete in formula 1 racing which has a massive following just like football & baseball clubs, merchandising is the way forward to make money, it's common sense business. 

There's nothing wrong with selling jewellery or even sports events gear, but when you start selling phones and glasses it does cheapen the brand a little in some people's eyes. 

Personally my issue with Tag Heuer is the amount of models that hit the market, it's almost like they find some spare bits from a parts bin and build a watch around them. 

Quailty of of their watches has taken a recent hit with the crown issues on the AR models. 

But it after all that the real reason people don't like Tag Heuer is because it's a gateway watch for many starting out, it's also a cool brand that many younger people buy, many of the cheaper watches being Quartz that flood the market which in turn leaves more experienced watch buyers feeling it's a cheaper brand to the like's of Omega & Rolex. 

In truth Tag make some stunning looking watches, & forgiving past quailty issues there's no reason why you shouldn't buy one if you like what you see. 

One thing I would like to see Tag Heuer start doing is tracking serial numbers like omega oris & rolex do, it would be nice to get a set of cards with each watch rather than a blank card with a hand writer details


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## parsec (Jan 16, 2015)

Richerson said:


> One thing I would like to see Tag Heuer start doing is tracking serial numbers like omega oris & rolex do, it would be nice to get a set of cards with each watch rather than a blank card with a hand writer details


I can agree with this, especially since the dealer never filled mine out. I got my Tag 13 years ago as a gift and I didn't really know better then. Thankfully the dealer had several locations in my area at the time and THEY tracked the SN in their system.


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## -Devil- (Nov 23, 2014)

Fact is fanboys have nothing better to do then to whine about Tag even though Tag existed before many other brands. Tag Heuer > anything. They're jealous because their watches dont look as good as anything Tag puts out. Fact :-d:-d:-d


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

Richerson said:


> One thing I would like to see Tag Heuer start doing is tracking serial numbers like omega oris & rolex do, it would be nice to get a set of cards with each watch rather than a blank card with a hand writer details


Yes, I received the same blank card (and a generic instruction guarantee booklet covering basically all their automatic watches- seemed a little cheap skate TBH) that was filled out by the salesman in the store. A few months down the line I checked for which stores in my area are authorised retailers/botiques and what process I should follow in case I had issues with the watch. Quite confusing to fathom anything on TAG's websites and ultimately failed to find any info regarding authenticity verification on them, happily after double and triple checking was relieved to ascertain I had purchased it at the main TAG dedicated shop in the city I acquired it in, could explain the noticeable lack of tacky branded apparel. Still wonder how much weight a hand scribbled card with a little stamp will have in case of a dispute.

The only good reason I can think of for the card being filled out at the time of sale is that perhaps TAG has some sort of central database on which the sales staff register the watch details, serial number, purchaser's info etc once the transaction is complete so if at later stage somewhere a watch with duplicate numbers is being sold at an authorised dealer it would be flagged as suspect at point of sale. If that is the case then nice as they are pre prepared warranty cards/certificates may open a small crack for duplicate(fake) watches to slip through the network as genuine in relation to TAG's system.

I do know of authentication systems(not watch specific) that operate in this way for extra security but no where does TAG at any time mention anything (pretty good potential marketing blurb) like this so it's probably not the case.

Thinking back my original issued Citizen Aqualand was actively tracked by both Citizen and the DoD. Still left with it anyway don't think they've noticed yet since the 90's from all the paperwork they bury themselves in ;D


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

Grommet said:


> Yes, I received the same blank card (and a generic instruction guarantee booklet covering basically all their automatic watches- seemed a little cheap skate TBH) that was filled out by the salesman in the store. A few months down the line I checked for which stores in my area are authorised retailers/botiques and what process I should follow in case I had issues with the watch. Quite confusing to fathom anything on TAG's websites and ultimately failed to find any info regarding authenticity verification on them, happily after double and triple checking was relieved to ascertain I had purchased it at the main TAG dedicated shop in the city I acquired it in, could explain the noticeable lack of tacky branded apparel. Still wonder how much weight a hand scribbled card with a little stamp will have in case of a dispute.
> 
> The only good reason I can think of for the card being filled out at the time of sale is that perhaps TAG has some sort of central database on which the sales staff register the watch details, serial number, purchaser's info etc once the transaction is complete so if at later stage somewhere a watch with duplicate numbers is being sold at an authorised dealer it would be flagged as suspect at point of sale. If that is the case then nice as they are pre prepared warranty cards/certificates may open a small crack for duplicate(fake) watches to slip through the network as genuine in relation to TAG's system.
> 
> ...


this isn't the case as ive had blank cards on a number of times which means they have no serial number to upload anywhere, i even asked the sales rep on my last tag heuer purchase and its just the date on the card they use - there's no database other than tag heuer knowing what serial number goes with what model


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

Richerson said:


> this isn't the case as ive had blank cards on a number of times which means they have no serial number to upload anywhere, i even asked the sales rep on my last tag heuer purchase and its just the date on the card they use - there's no database other than tag heuer knowing what serial number goes with what model


Thanks for the reply and info, much appreciated. Does that mean it's up to the purchaser to provide proof (sales invoice, receipt) of date of purchase and having bought the watch at an approved outlet along with the warranty card to avoid any disputes? I agree getting a set of verification cards and knowing the watch is individually tracked as per how you described like Omega, Rolex and Oris do would be much better. Cheers


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

You just need a completed warranty card,filled in by hand and stamped by the AD, if they leave the card blank just fill it in yourself


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## Grommet (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanks that is exactly what I received. The salesman filled in the model number, date and serial number by hand. He didn't fill in the purchaser line or sign it by hand but did stamp it with the AD stamp. As I have the original invoice with all the sales details (my details, watch model, date, payment receipt) except oddly it doesn't have the actual serial number which was written on the warranty card itself, can I fill in the purchaser detail on the card myself without issue?


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## Deli (Jul 19, 2014)

Richerson said:


> One thing I would like to see Tag Heuer start doing is tracking serial numbers like omega oris & rolex do


They do. But they do not disclose these details to end customers for many reasons.
Every (recent) watch made @Tag is tracked, and the same applies for watches in an official customer service.


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## Richerson (Jun 18, 2006)

Well if that is the case it would be nice to get personalised cards because it makes the whole buying process feel a lot more special


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## cfw (Jun 20, 2012)

Richerson said:


> At the end of the day you buy the watch YOU want and you shouldn't give a t*ss if anyone else doesn't like it.
> 
> Im looking to buy one of these because I personally think it looks stunning, I'm sure there a lot of brand snobs who would laugh, do I care - NO
> 
> View attachment 2609266


Hahaha sorry, couldnt resist 

I bought this cause it looks great and thr fact that it looks like a Panerai has got nothing to do with it 









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## cfw (Jun 20, 2012)

Richerson said:


> I agree a lot of brands have the same issues, but Tag don't help themselves really, selling sun glasses, phones and leather jackets is mind blogging, I get jewellery but phones.


Cause all a guy needs are hand bags and watches haha

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## cfw (Jun 20, 2012)

Richerson said:


> i couldn't agree more, Tudor make excellent watches but the brand will forever be in the Rolex shadow, sales staff don't help, I was looking at some Tudors before Christmas and the first thing the sales rep said was, "Do you know these are actually rolex swatches"


U need to change watch dealers hahaha, but yes it annoys it daylight out of me. On the same level as when sales staff at Swatch ADs tells me the system 51 never needs a battery change....no sh*t Sherlock.

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## cfw (Jun 20, 2012)

Finhook said:


> In my circle of watch lovers it about mechanical watches, like it is with most, then quartz, but mostly only if it does tricks. Certainly Swiss jeweled quartz are better than most, but what I find bothersome is that Tags quartz movements should be special and they are not.
> 
> Timex makes a 7-year perpetual-calendar quartz driven watch, and now has their proprietary 'Intelligent Quartz', which is apparently both efficient and accurate and now have a chronograph with linear markers. Bulova makes a quartz watch that is accurate to within ten seconds a year (pretty impressive) AND it's got a sweep second hand (the Precisionator II? ). Now there's a couple of trick quartz watches.
> 
> ...


The only quartz TAG that I have respect for is the one they use in the Kirium F1 and Aquaracer micograph.

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## cfw (Jun 20, 2012)

parsec said:


> I'm new to the forum, though I've been lurking for some time. I have to say that I never understood the hate based on the branding of clothing. I mean, I get it but I don't. Let me clarify by pointing out that Ferrari has a store in Las Vegas that sells nothing but Ferrari branded items, such as key chains, hats, etc. They have cars, but my understanding is that they're actually NOT for sale and are for display only! Yet I don't hear anyone bashing the quality of Ferrari's cars because they also sell hats. So why does TAG Heuer get that treatment when Ferrari doesn't?
> 
> Personally I think the clothing was dumb, but I'm smart enough to know that has no bearing on the quality of the watches.


Cause Ferrari uses in house engines not ETA  haha

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## atomicfront (Dec 16, 2014)

Watch snobs are like music snobs and beer snobs just annoying people who don't enjoy life. Look at the watches that are the watch snob favorites: Rolex Submariner, Omega Speedmaster, and Grand Seiko. They are super conservative dated watches that no one in the general public would ever notice you wearing. Anything interesting or creative gets disapproval. Read what they say about Bell and Ross or Shinola the real whipping boys.

But it never about the quality of the watch. You won't hear the watch falls apart or its inaccurate. Or it lacks complications. 

And you don't hear insults from guys with real high end watches like Patek or A Lange and Sohne. 

Think that someone paid 4 times as much as you did for their watch and it doesn't do anything better than your watch. It isn't more reliable, it isn't more accurate, it doesn't look better. It doesn't have any additional features like moon phase, perpetual calendar or alarm. It doesn't have better marketing or brand ambassadors. It won't get more compliments. Yet they will tell your watch is overpriced.


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## publandlord (Aug 15, 2006)

atomicfront said:


> Watch snobs are like music snobs and beer snobs just annoying people who don't enjoy life. Look at the watches that are the watch snob favorites: Rolex Submariner, Omega Speedmaster, and Grand Seiko. They are super conservative dated watches that no one in the general public would ever notice you wearing. Anything interesting or creative gets disapproval. Read what they say about Bell and Ross or Shinola the real whipping boys.
> 
> But it never about the quality of the watch. You won't hear the watch falls apart or its inaccurate. Or it lacks complications.
> 
> ...


Amen to all that!

Rolex Submariner, Speedy Pro, G Shock, Grand Seiko (if wet). Zzzzzzzz.


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## JetstreamZ07 (Nov 3, 2012)

Their service is about as bad as it can be. I have sent my calibre 36 movement back to service three times now, and they still can't get it correct. I'm moving on from Tag Heuer if it doesn't change. I'm already wearing a Rolex Daytona and my wife got a Rolex rather than a tag for our 15th as a Tag would not stand the test of time. Rolex is the standard by which all others are measured in my opinion. Not because they have the best of anything....rather, they service their product very well for people like me who really don't want to take extra time to baby sit the Tag service department.


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## composite_guru (Aug 1, 2016)

I've just ordered one of these. I don't care what people say about Tag. I liked the watch so I bought it.


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## Orange_GT3 (Jun 18, 2015)

composite_guru said:


> I've just ordered one of these. I don't care what people say about Tag. I liked the watch so I bought it.


Great attitude. Good on you!


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## fuzzyarrow (Apr 1, 2016)

I've tried Omega and now Rolex and go back to Tag Heuer every time. I just find their designs more modern/stylish/interesting. Bought a brand new Seamaster Pro black dial expecting to love it a few weeks ago and sold it after a week, didn't like it. My latest purchase was the Rolex 114060 and it doesn't at all feel worth 3x more than my Aquaracer.


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## watchman25 (Jan 30, 2016)

At the end of the day you buy the watch YOU want and you shouldn't care what others think


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## Rakumi (Nov 11, 2015)

I seen this attitude in the car world as well and I am sure it exist in many other hobbies or interest. The middle guy always loves to bash on the entry guy simply because he wants to feel important. All the reasons people throw at Tag for being a bad brand usually apply to many other brands as well but they get a pass. I own a Tag and I own a Rolex. Though I love my Rolex, it is nowhere near the value in the price you pay as far as quality watch. You are paying for the name. Tag may be similar in that you are paying for a name as well but the quality does match the price on their mid level range like calibre 5 Aquaracer and Carrera lines. Most of the people who bash on Tag the most I feel come from people who own Omegas or other various brands below that level. Most owners of Rolex and up (who are not of the snob type and only own a Rolex because they want to show off) seem to not hate on Tag as much from what I see because they have less to prove on justifying anything because they can speak from an opinion of enjoying a Tag and not feeling like "I only got it because it is all I can afford". Granted, this is not the case with everybody. Some people who own really hi-end watches are just snobs.


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## MattinVA (Aug 31, 2016)

I just like watches....albeit more classic designs in general. I do prefer Manual or Auto winds over quartz. Its a mechanical thing I guess. Most watches I choose have some sort of historical or nostalgia behind them. 

I swap between G-Shock to Rolex all the time, not for anybody to see me. Just as the occasion and setting seems fit. 99.9% of people don't know one watch from another, in this day and age wearing a watch at all can say your being snobbish in a sense

I am actually in the Market for a Tag, diver style probably

Some companies build a cult around their brand through careful and controlled marketing and advertising.

Other industries.....Diamonds, fashion industry, Cars, Shoes, Sun Glasses, Cell Phones etc etc also follow this pattern. I agree that some companies that rise to the top soon forget about quality and soon begin marketing crap or inferior products that deviate from their original and quality products...Porsche comes to mind. This is of course done to boost the raise sales and ultimately the bottom line, but it often cheapens the brand in the eyes of the Very highest end buyers.

Companies like Ferrari, McLaren, Patek, Rolex do not do this for the most part. They raise prices every year like clockwork, keep tight reign sales and service allowing them to retain the exclusive feeling.

As was mentioned here earlier, often a company that sell a lower and higher end item will be stuck with the reputation of a lower level product. 

Ford---Produces the cheap Fiesta........and the Ford GT....Best know for middle of the line vehicles 
Seiko---Produces the Seiko 5 line and The Grand Seikos.....................considered a middle of the pack watch brand (Seiko delivers excellent value for money IMHO)

My opinion this is what happened to Tag....I believe it makes a fine time piece all around. Just like ford Makes fine cars all around.

All of it reminds me of the scene in American Psycho where they are comparing business cards..........



Truth be know we don't NEED any of it. We want for our own reasons....so who really cares in the end.

AMEN.....stepping down now


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## cfw (Jun 20, 2012)

Rakumi said:


> I seen this attitude in the car world as well and I am sure it exist in many other hobbies or interest. The middle guy always loves to bash on the entry guy simply because he wants to feel important. All the reasons people throw at Tag for being a bad brand usually apply to many other brands as well but they get a pass. I own a Tag and I own a Rolex. Though I love my Rolex, it is nowhere near the value in the price you pay as far as quality watch. You are paying for the name. Tag may be similar in that you are paying for a name as well but the quality does match the price on their mid level range like calibre 5 Aquaracer and Carrera lines. Most of the people who bash on Tag the most I feel come from people who own Omegas or other various brands below that level. Most owners of Rolex and up (who are not of the snob type and only own a Rolex because they want to show off) seem to not hate on Tag as much from what I see because they have less to prove on justifying anything because they can speak from an opinion of enjoying a Tag and not feeling like "I only got it because it is all I can afford". Granted, this is not the case with everybody. Some people who own really hi-end watches are just snobs.


Rolex, IWC, JLC, GP, Omega or Breitling dont make hand bags, sunglasses or belts #justsaying

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## cfw (Jun 20, 2012)

MattinVA said:


> I just like watches....albeit more classic designs in general. I do prefer Manual or Auto winds over quartz. Its a mechanical thing I guess. Most watches I choose have some sort of historical or nostalgia behind them.
> 
> I swap between G-Shock to Rolex all the time, not for anybody to see me. Just as the occasion and setting seems fit. 99.9% of people don't know one watch from another, in this day and age wearing a watch at all can say your being snobbish in a sense
> 
> ...


Not all quartz are "bad" my GP cal 352 is my most prized watch. I value it higher than any of my other watches that I had/have incl Rolex, Tudor, Omega , IWC, JLC ect

















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## composite_guru (Aug 1, 2016)

cfw said:


> Rolex, IWC, JLC, GP, Omega or Breitling dont make hand bags, sunglasses or belts #justsaying
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L10 using Tapatalk


That's because they are owned by a big company that makes those items already?

Doesn't bother me.


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## Can1860 (Nov 11, 2007)

Omega do make sunglasses 
https://www.omegawatches.com/accessories/sunglasses/

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## cfw (Jun 20, 2012)

composite_guru said:


> That's because they are owned by a big company that makes those items already?
> 
> Doesn't bother me.


It bothers me.

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## cfw (Jun 20, 2012)

cananda said:


> Omega do make sunglasses
> https://www.omegawatches.com/accessories/sunglasses/
> 
> Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk


And ........, purses and belts? It delutes the brand

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## composite_guru (Aug 1, 2016)

cfw said:


> It bothers me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well don't let it. Just ignore what they do and buy different watches.


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## Spartan.Ex (Jul 10, 2015)

cfw said:


> And ........, purses and belts? It delutes the brand
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They make (not make, just sell) purses and belt as well. OMEGA Watches: Accessories - Fine Leather OMEGA Watches: Accessories - Belts they even make fragrances. I don´t mind it.


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

Does TAG still make purses and belts?


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## dapurdie (Jul 17, 2016)

Maybe it has something to do with having a reputation as a "nice" watch among non-watch types that irritates watch guys. When I first starting getting into watches the watches I were drawn to the most were Tag's because I saw their advertising everywhere and assumed they were great watches. I would absolutely wear a Monaco or a Monza or some of their Carrera models. I recently sold a Carrera twin time, I wasn't crazy about it but it certainly was on par with other watches in it's price point...


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## Orange_GT3 (Jun 18, 2015)

WillMK5 said:


> Does TAG still make purses and belts?


No. JCB canned all the accessories, including sun glasses. I suspect you can still buy old stock and certainly my local boutique has many of the accessories on the shelves but I think once they are gone, they are gone.


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## WillMK5 (Mar 2, 2009)

Good call by JCB, that definitely cheapened the brand in my opinion. Now they need to make a traditional looking Carrera with the new movement. Those CH-80 pandas were something... 

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## Loofa (May 31, 2013)

Double post*


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## Ard (Jul 21, 2014)

I only read the first page of replies but must say; if you have a new Monaco I don't believe you really do until I see a picture.

As for whatever people who don't pay for my watches or taxes think about my choice of watch think.............................. I truly could care less. I like my Tag Heuer watches and may buy more before I'm done.


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## composite_guru (Aug 1, 2016)

The reason why I like TH is because they are primarily involved with Motorsport, especially F1. I work in the sport so support their involvement. 
The team I work for is sponsored by them too so that makes them even more likeable to me.


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## Loofa (May 31, 2013)

While I greatly dislike TAG, I love Heuer. I feel many share this mentality. Tis quite a shame because TAGHeuer watches themselves are great pieces 

One of my grails is the Heuer Carrera reissue cal. 18 telemeter. To me it's pure Heuer without TAG meddling around with it. 


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## Orange_GT3 (Jun 18, 2015)

Loofa said:


> While I greatly dislike TAG, I love Heuer. I feel many share this mentality. Tis quite a shame because TAGHeuer watches themselves are great pieces


So if TAG Heuer make great pieces, why wouldn't you buy the ones you like? TAG (Techniques d'Avant Garde) actually has nothing to do with TAG Heuer anymore except the three letters in the company name. What is your beef?

I think many feel the same as you because it is cool to do so or is the WIS way. Time to grow up and acknowledge the company for what it is now.

Also, I've posed the question before... where do you think Heuer would be now without TAG and subsequently LVMH? I suggest to you it would be in the ground!



Loofa said:


> One of my grails is the Heuer Carrera reissue cal. 18 telemeter. To me it's pure Heuer without TAG meddling around with it.


Except that it has come from the LVMH era of TAG Heuer and is really nothing to do with the Heuer of old other than the logo used on the dial.


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## Loofa (May 31, 2013)

Orange_GT3 said:


> So if TAG Heuer make great pieces, why wouldn't you buy the ones you like? TAG (Techniques d'Avant Garde) actually has nothing to do with TAG Heuer anymore except the three letters in the company name. What is your beef?
> 
> I think many feel the same as you because it is cool to do so or is the WIS way. Time to grow up and acknowledge the company for what it is now.
> 
> ...


I understand your points, in fact I will probably acquire a Quartz aquaracer in the future (wap1112 maybe).

To elaborate more I believe that TAG has steered the brand into being fashion watches, well made though. I find the aesthetics of these watches from the 90s til current mostly nothing special and just following current trends. Case in point big hockey puck complicated chronographs.

However I do greatly like the new updated formula 1 line!

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## cfw (Jun 20, 2012)

I to am not a tag fan but shove me sideways this is a beauty plus a good movement 7750









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## Champb1985 (Jul 30, 2016)

Having read all the previous I felt the need to throw in my two pence. As a newbie to WUS, I found this place to be a great place to talk to like minded people who appreciate watches, a place where we can showcase your collections and seek advice. I have yet to come across some of the snobbery mentioned but as a Tag lover I find it a but remiss that Tag does attract such snobbery.

Plastic spacers, quartz or automatic, in house or bought in, ronda, sellita or ETA, wallets and purses, who cares! I care not that two of my tags are quartz or even that my omega is a quartz(someone, somewhere is calling me a blasphemer) what's most important are the memories associated with my watches. 

For example Seattle airport will always have a find place in my heart for it is where I bought my first tag. I remember vividly on my return from America walking into duty free in my tracksuit bottoms, trainers and hoodie making a b line for the watches to be greeted my the assistant who had probably sized me up as a guy whose goung to make her take out all the watches, look at them and then leave. Only for me to drop the 918 dollars cash and her to get excited that I had given her new notes. 

Or the Tissot V8 I wore on a stag do in Amsterdam which saw some banana involved debauchery or my skagen I wore at wrestlemania 30 to my trusted g-shock that goes everywhere with me on my travels or the Tissot le locle I wore to my last interview where I got the job. To my tag carrera which I bought for more then the cost of my car on my 30th birthday. 

This for me is what watches and watch enthusiasts should be about. Enjoying each others collections and the story behind each watch.

To reference some of the points in this thread should it matter that Tag produces other products, in my opinion, no. A brand has every right to do so and I don't think it diminishes the brand. For me tag falls into the the bracket above your tissots and oris and Hamiltons and what have you but just falls short of the omega and rolex bracket. And i think this is purely a price issue. I love my seamaster quartz can I say it's better then my tag, or my le locle, I don't think I can. 

There will be those that disagree and that's fine. Maybe I've missed the point with post but in the words of someone famous... Why can't we all just get along!


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## John6158 (Mar 24, 2014)

composite_guru said:


> I've just ordered one of these. I don't care what people say about Tag. I liked the watch so I bought it.


Great watch, excellent craftsmanship. Congrats.


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