# SBGH205 - The Dark Horse



## zuiko

There are precious few older threads on the predecessor to the new logo version here (the SBGH005) but I thought we may as well have a thread on this model which I think is underestimated against more popular GSes like the white dial/blue hand combo SBGH001/201 or the Snowflake.

It's a watch that was on my radar as far back as 2016 when I comparison shopped it against a H039 and a J003 at the time. I decided on the H039 and thought I had in that watch a dial dark enough to pass as my dark dialled GS 'dressy' watch.

Two years later the H037 which had been on the chopping block for me is gone and the H205 is in. The Iwate dial has always looked like animal fur to me and in this more natural dark colour reminds me of the coat of a thoroughbred horse.

This re-appeared on my radar because of the recent SBGH267. The 267 is something truly special. The dial texture AND color, the gold logo, the lug area polish and the gold seconds hand are a true celebration of the 9S.

It was the thin indices on the 267 and it's overall case shape that switched me back onto the 005 because the 267 is essentially a decorated version of the H001/3/5 (201/5) series sharing the thin and high hour indices which I love.

Bear in mind I'm just getting accustomed to this plainer 205 and many might rightfully say it's way too similar to have both 267 and 205 in a collection and I would tend to agree mostly.

But if you can be so extravagant, then the 205 has all the design beauty of the 267 evident in the purest form here, with the ultimate in understatement and hidden pleasure that can be found in a GS imo. There is absolutely no overt colour and the logo, indices and hands are all pure polished metal but the dial holds a secret allure unlike the 267 which would be considered outrageously flamboyant compared to the 205.

The Iwate dial was introduced as a white in the SBGL001 (the same case as the H267) and I believe the H005/205 is the first presentation of the Iwate dial in 'black'. Observers in real life will see though that the 205 has a beautiful golden dark greenish brown dial in stronger light that reveals the hidden beauty of this watch. It has all the shine, polish and quality of any other GS but when the dial comes alive it can keep one staring at it constantly. And just like a thoroughbred race horse this appropriately has the High-Beat 9S85 movement.

While I had originally traded my H037 for a H005 (the older logo dial which I certainly wouldn't have minded but didn't work out) the H205 has the 2x2 lines of text above and below the center which gives a more balanced and stately look imo.

I think it's a model that's worthy of strong consideration vs some of the more popular GS models. It isn't the sort of watch that is going to wow all who see it. But if you can live with that then I think it's a wonderful watch with which to experience one of the purest GS experiences you can have imo.

A real dark horse or "Black Beauty"


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## Raff

That’s absolutely gorgeous. The dial does look like a horse’s hide.




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## murokello

I love that black boy. Looks amazing.


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## watchabel

The texture almost looks furry in the most remarkable way!


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## matthew P

You've done a great job of capturing the subtle charm of the dial texture which disappears often but shows up in the right light ..... yet another example of how the simple GS pieces sparkle/ play with the light in a way that other brands can't compete with.

I love the new dial of the black faces version, balanced and clean, awesome watch. 
I love the way the new dial groups the gothic font up top and the clean informational text below. The simple silver text and applied logo match in color which I find so much better than the applied silver GS / printed black text of the sbgh201.... this watch is text book GS IMO.

I'd love to add one to my collection one day. For the moment these two are co- existing happily. Wish GS could add some micro adjustment option in the clasp.


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## Tonhao

Wow. The stock photos of this watch don’t even come close to conveying the dial texture. But then, you could say the same about most GSs...


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## kyle1234c

This is the watch I am after so long as it fits my 6.5" wrist...


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## MLJinAK

Excellent observation about the Iwate version. When I saw the Iwate, my first thought was this watch. 

You're right, too - this is highly underrated.


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## Domo

Very very nice. I love the extra-thin indices of the original hi-beat series :-!


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## zuiko

matthew P said:


> You've done a great job of capturing the subtle charm of the dial texture which disappears often but shows up in the right light ..... yet another example of how the simple GS pieces sparkle/ play with the light in a way that other brands can't compete with.
> 
> I love the new dial of the black faces version, balanced and clean, awesome watch.
> I love the way the new dial groups the gothic font up top and the clean informational text below. The simple silver text and applied logo match in color which I find so much better than the applied silver GS / printed black text of the sbgh201.... this watch is text book GS IMO.
> 
> I'd love to add one to my collection one day. For the moment these two are co- existing happily. Wish GS could add some micro adjustment option in the clasp.


It's a beautiful set. The Explorer is another watch I have had on my radar forever but never pulled the trigger on.

An alternative Rolex/GS set in the same vein might be Explorer II Polar white and the GS H205. The Explorer II is another one that has been on the over the horizon radar and the recent subtle design changes in both it and the original Explorer have brought them ever closer to an eventual purchase for me.


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## zuiko

A bit more of the dial goodness with the lower winter morning sun...


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## KGampp

This is really awesome looking, I’ve never seen it before.


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## matthew P

zuiko said:


> It's a beautiful set. The Explorer is another watch I have had on my radar forever but never pulled the trigger on.
> 
> An alternative Rolex/GS set in the same vein might be Explorer II Polar white and the GS H205. The Explorer II is another one that has been on the over the horizon radar and the recent subtle design changes in both it and the original Explorer have brought them ever closer to an eventual purchase for me.


If you have the wrist for it the new version of the explorer II is pretty awesome.... way too big for my wrist though.

If you love the explorer I wouldn't write it off because it's too similar to the 205, very different feel on wrist and very different look even though both are black dialed.


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## zuiko

Pure GS grammar of design through and through.


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## RKP

matthew P said:


> You've done a great job of capturing the subtle charm of the dial texture which disappears often but shows up in the right light ..... yet another example of how the simple GS pieces sparkle/ play with the light in a way that other brands can't compete with.
> 
> I love the new dial of the black faces version, balanced and clean, awesome watch.
> I love the way the new dial groups the gothic font up top and the clean informational text below. The simple silver text and applied logo match in color which I find so much better than the applied silver GS / printed black text of the sbgh201.... this watch is text book GS IMO.
> 
> I'd love to add one to my collection one day. For the moment these two are co- existing happily. Wish GS could add some micro adjustment option in the clasp.


Perfect combo! Honestly maybe one more watch and I would be more than happy with my collection!


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## zuiko

It's an awesome piece. I have many and yet this plainer, darker, more conservative and stark essence of mechanical GS is the one. I would argue only pure grammar of design GS modern watch aside from the lighter dial version though that is decorated with a blued hand and blue text so might not be as pure as this one. As a production model it frees one to use as a true daily (as a replacement if ever needed is straightforward to obtain). Lots of reasons, but too little time to elaborate further


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## zuiko

And another from today.....









So pure, yet so, so sweet.


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## zuiko

I'd forgotten to mention that the crown GS markings on this are much sharper than the dull ones on this year's 9S anniversary models (just as an example).


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## nhlducks35

Beautiful!


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## zuiko

Words can't capture the beauty and sometimes even pictures don't. Remembering that this isn't an entirely new watch for me it's had a powerful effect in resetting my watch wearing habits.


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## bluedialer

It's certainly a prototypical GS. And the subtle Iwate texture is just the right touch to elevate beyond a simple black dialed watch. Much like the A201's champagne is the touch to make that a special prototypical GS.

The first GS video review I ever saw back in the days of my introduction to the brand was on the H005. I'm sure most of us have seen it at some point, a very good introduction. Not clear enough to notice, and strangely not even a mention of the Iwate texturing.


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## Sabeking

Wow! Just beautifully done...


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## Emcphers

What other luxury watch brands have such unique and interesting dials? I've seen some cool ones from Omega but not quite as interesting.

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## dannyking

Raff said:


> That's absolutely gorgeous. The dial does look like a horse's hide.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly. The black finish is amazing.


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## dannyking

Emcphers said:


> What other luxury watch brands have such unique and interesting dials? I've seen some cool ones from Omega but not quite as interesting.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk


The one thing going for the GS is their amazing dials. The finishes are simply awesome. Although a question crosses my mind, why aren't the Grand Seikos not as recognizable and held in high esteem as high-end watches by the general public (not talking about the all know watch afficianados). Like how, a Rolex, an Omega, or a Patek, and even the ubiquitous Rados and Tags. The GS recognition seems low and a few people I talked to even think they are just Seikos, much like an economy watch.


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## Raff

dannyking said:


> The one thing going for the GS is their amazing dials. The finishes are simply awesome. Although a question crosses my mind, why aren't the Grand Seikos not as recognizable and held in high esteem as high-end watches by the general public (not talking about the all know watch afficianados). Like how, a Rolex, an Omega, or a Patek, and even the ubiquitous Rados and Tags. The GS recognition seems low and a few people I talked to even think they are just Seikos, much like an economy watch.


Because they have not been marketed in the West much. Go to Japan or another far eastern country and they are held in huge esteem.

But the lack of recognition in the West doesn't mean they aren't held in high esteem. They are very much so by people 'in the know'

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## zuiko

Just can't leave the 205 for another yet. I tried wearing the SLA025 first but the 205 was still just too powerful.









For whatever reason I see this as my most Japanese watch. It's a deep psyche type thing about the dark dial and extreme but conservative bling.


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## Raff

zuiko said:


> Just can't leave the 205 for another yet. I tried wearing the SLA025 first but the 205 was still just too powerful.
> 
> View attachment 13375013
> 
> 
> For whatever reason I see this as my most Japanese watch. It's a deep psyche type thing about the dark dial and extreme but conservative bling.


I'm thinking of scrapping the idea of getting a spring drive next and getting this as a second hi-beat. None of the spring drives are as nice imo.

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## jandrese

That watch is totally sick. Thanks for the review. I was thinking of getting a GS GMT and your review sent me on a search that culminated in finding the SBGJ203 that has the same dial. I'm pretty stoked to have it on order.


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## ivanos

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## dannyking

The black dial looks like a thorough bred Arabian horse's hide. Hats off to Seiko for pulling that off. One of the most beautiful black dials I've ever come across.


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## Raff

Raff said:


> I'm thinking of scrapping the idea of getting a spring drive next and getting this as a second hi-beat. None of the spring drives are as nice imo.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Indeed. I was going to get a Spring Drive next but that dial! Tried it on in the boutique a few weeks back

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## Wooden_spoon

Whoa that is bonkers!! I must see one in the metal!


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## userealwasabi

Love it now. Great shots OP!


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## kyle1234c

Hi, can I ask what your wrist size is? I have been through a number of watches and settled on the design ethos of GS being my favourite and this being my favourite of the GS watches. I have a 6.5" wrist though and like my watches conservative. Im currently wearing a sbgr053 and am wondering if I could get away with the extra couple of mil width.


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## zuiko

My wrist as this was sized and seen in these earlier pictures are a little hard to explain but significant weight change means my wrist as pictured was around 7 inches? 



I'll just share a little story about this watch which is the only Grand Seiko I have bought at what amounts to full price but I think this particular watch is worth it. Imagine my horror when I dropped a 5c coin (the smallest metal coin in Australia) and my wife unable to grab the coin in turn dropped it right onto this watch shortly after those photos were taken. 

It resulted in the tiniest of dings to the Zaratsu edge but it's there. It's the collision of two opposite ends of the finished metal universe. A coin is expected to be battered in a hard life of constant clashing with other coins. Whereas the Grand Seiko is brought through much toil to a state of near perfect polish. 

It was humbling to see the most valueless of metals briefly “kiss” the most highly finished of it's kind. So when I look at this watch, now that I have come to terms with the (almost invisible to naked eye) blemish, I see it as both a valuable possesion on the one hand and on the other just a material thing that too will one day return to the entropy which is the eternal equaliser of all.


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## zuiko




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## zuiko

!


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## kyle1234c

Thank you, I can see you are very passionate about this watch! And yes, watches are to be worn so no need to worry about the odd scratch or ding.
I really do like this watch and will have to visit London to try one on. The issue is, I guess I will be basically selling my SBGR053, which fits perfectly, and adding probably £1000 or more (pre owned prices) all for a slightly more grained dial! I am not too bothered by the hi-beat due to the lower time it stays powered. Hmmm, I will have to think!


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## zuiko

I think the Katana nickname would not be uniftting for this one.

"Sharp from every angle" might be it's easy description in a sentence.


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## berni29

Hello! 

I enjoyed reading your muses on this watch. I feel for your ding on the watch but as you say it’s part of lifes process. I dinged my new SBGA375 the first time I wore it. I am becoming a better person by letting my feelings on the matter go.........

Until seeing your photos I realise that the dial had such an amazing texture.


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## bluedialer

zuiko said:


> I think the Katana nickname would not be uniftting for this one.
> 
> "Sharp from every angle" might be it's easy description in a sentence.


I usually don't jump on board with nicknames, but I actually particularly like your "Dark Horse" name for this model. It suits the watch perfectly because of the black "coat" texture, and the fact that it is indeed often overlooked but is very much a quintessential GS.


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## Moss28

matthew P said:


> You've done a great job of capturing the subtle charm of the dial texture which disappears often but shows up in the right light ..... yet another example of how the simple GS pieces sparkle/ play with the light in a way that other brands can't compete with.
> 
> I love the new dial of the black faces version, balanced and clean, awesome watch.
> I love the way the new dial groups the gothic font up top and the clean informational text below. The simple silver text and applied logo match in color which I find so much better than the applied silver GS / printed black text of the sbgh201.... this watch is text book GS IMO.
> 
> I'd love to add one to my collection one day. For the moment these two are co- existing happily. Wish GS could add some micro adjustment option in the clasp.


I'm curious - Which of these wears larger?

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## jcc5024

That dial is simply stunning.

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## matthew P

Moss28 said:


> I'm curious - Which of these wears larger?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


the explorer is lower and 39mm instead of 40mm..... and wears it smaller on wrist though the dial "looks wider".
it also has the easy link no tool clasp adjustment so it wears better,
the white higbeat looks a little larger on wrist due to the all white dial, I was looking at a black high beat last weekend and it looks about the same as the explorer even though the case is slightly wider.

Both watches are manufactured to very high standards but the finishing /polish/sparkle of the GS is greater.
the explorer is a little more one dimensional whereas the deeper dial and multi faceted hour markers and handset of the high beat stand out and continue to impress me.

for me the explorer dominates everyday wrist time due to accuracy (less than +1 per day ) and comfort, but the high beat is always a pleasure to strap on.


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## Moss28

Thank you for those thoughts

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## SartoriallyCavalier

That watch is pure class. Thanks for sharing!


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## obomomomo

My first GS. I've drooled over the SBGH005 for years but the 205 is even better with the new logo. Had it a couple of days now, put temporarily on a Hirsch Liberty while the search is on for the perfect strap. Gorgeous!


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## orbitalheel

Been interested in a SBGA375 but this one is making me think...

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## Brny11

Just picked one up!! Words and pics can not express the beauty!! (2nd pic not a true representation of size as it looks huge compared to sub, which it is not).


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## YepJ

That is one sleek looking watch. Love that white dial as well next to the Explorer - which is yet another awesome piece


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## closeset

cool model


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## warsh

I was unaware of this one, but your passionate descriptions and your great photos have piqued my interest. What a stunning dial. Could be a good companion to my snowflake......

Cant get a sense of how it would wear compared to a snowflake or to the new GS quartz GMTs....??


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## matthew P

warsh said:


> I was unaware of this one, but your passionate descriptions and your great photos have piqued my interest. What a stunning dial. Could be a good companion to my snowflake......
> 
> Cant get a sense of how it would wear compared to a snowflake or to the new GS quartz GMTs....??
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


smaller than the snowflake.... lower than the GMT.


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## Jordan9171

How have I not seen this before... so damn cool!


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## obomomomo

I find the dial on this model most fascinating and quite different from most GS dials I've seen like the Peacock or Snowflake. The texture is seen like a muted dark charcoal sunburst in sharp direct lighting or sunlight yet under diffused indoor light the texture disappears and replaced by a mirror smooth, almost liquid deep gloss black. I don't know how they did it but what I surmise is there appears to be a thin mirror smooth clearcoat laquer or transparent hard gel type surface over the 'Mt. Iwate' or 'horse hair' texture. The effect is difficult to see in still photographs but I'll try illustrate what I mean:









^^^Here, looking at the reflection under the minute hand on the dial (it's not shadow) the surface seems completely smooth and reflective.









^^^Same thing here with the reflection of the second hand.

Like I said, quite fascinating

Edit: I haven't seen the 'white' Mt.Iwate GS like the SBGJ201 but wonder if it is the same.


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## obomomomo

Jordan9171 said:


> How have I not seen this before... so damn cool!


It's even cooler than you think!

See my post #56 above


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## bluedialer

obomomomo said:


> I find the dial on this model most fascinating and quite different from most GS dials I've seen like the Peacock or Snowflake. The texture is seen like a muted dark charcoal sunburst in sharp direct lighting or sunlight yet under diffused indoor light the texture disappears and replaced by a mirror smooth, almost liquid deep gloss black. I don't know how they did it but what I surmise is there appears to be a thin mirror smooth clearcoat laquer or transparent hard gel type surface over the 'Mt. Iwate' or 'horse hair' texture. The effect is difficult to see in still photographs but I'll try illustrate what I mean:
> 
> View attachment 13780579
> 
> 
> ^^^Here, looking at the reflection under the minute hand on the dial (it's not shadow) the surface seems completely smooth and reflective.
> 
> View attachment 13780581
> 
> 
> ^^^Same thing here with the reflection of the second hand.
> 
> Like I said, quite fascinating
> 
> Edit: I haven't seen the 'white' Mt.Iwate GS like the SBGJ201 but wonder if it is the same.


The glossy lacquer on the Iwate dials works nicely, and the depth of the texturing is neatly preserved rather than muted by the clear coating. I've got some nice old reflection shots on my green dial iwate.

The white dial one is known for showing off the ridge texturing most vibrantly. Reflections on its gloss surface however would tend to be harder to see on a light colored dial.

I amost pulled the trigger on a SBGH005 in that recent Timeless Luxury 40% off clearance on old logo dialed GSs.... alas, or thank goodness, they sold out of the model. I don't need it, but it's a damn fine GS that most accurately presents the essence of Grand Seiko design (especially, imo, with the old logo). Just a black/white black tie salaryman's watch made to the highest quality, with just the right hint of astonishing detailing to enjoy up close.

It is truly pure understated class. This is a great model, when one really considers it. Very underappreciated.


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## alpinistfan

obomomomo said:


> I find the dial on this model most fascinating and quite different from most GS dials I've seen like the Peacock or Snowflake. The texture is seen like a muted dark charcoal sunburst in sharp direct lighting or sunlight yet under diffused indoor light the texture disappears and replaced by a mirror smooth, almost liquid deep gloss black. I don't know how they did it but what I surmise is there appears to be a thin mirror smooth clearcoat laquer or transparent hard gel type surface over the 'Mt. Iwate' or 'horse hair' texture. The effect is difficult to see in still photographs but I'll try illustrate what I mean:
> 
> View attachment 13780579
> 
> 
> ^^^Here, looking at the reflection under the minute hand on the dial (it's not shadow) the surface seems completely smooth and reflective.
> 
> View attachment 13780581
> 
> 
> ^^^Same thing here with the reflection of the second hand.
> 
> Like I said, quite fascinating
> 
> Edit: I haven't seen the 'white' Mt.Iwate GS like the SBGJ201 but wonder if it is the same.


I know exactly what you are referring to. My Seiko 40th quartz Astron does the same thing. What boggles my mind is that the dial on my piece goes from glossy black, to texture under hard light, but the 40 quartz logos on the dial stay inky black. I still can't wrap my head around how they achieved this.

Thank you for sharing


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## Mortadelo52

excuse me, but what is the difference between this 205 and the 245?
Thanks


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## hon73

main difference
245 is titanium
205 is Stainless steel
the case shape also look slightly difference even thought both 44GS
can go GS website and check out.


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## xuijtxal

zuiko said:


> There are precious few older threads on the predecessor to the new logo version here (the SBGH005) but I thought we may as well have a thread on this model which I think is underestimated against more popular GSes like the white dial/blue hand combo SBGH001/201 or the Snowflake.
> 
> It's a watch that was on my radar as far back as 2016 when I comparison shopped it against a H039 and a J003 at the time. I decided on the H039 and thought I had in that watch a dial dark enough to pass as my dark dialled GS 'dressy' watch.
> 
> Two years later the H037 which had been on the chopping block for me is gone and the H205 is in. The Iwate dial has always looked like animal fur to me and in this more natural dark colour reminds me of the coat of a thoroughbred horse.
> 
> This re-appeared on my radar because of the recent SBGH267. The 267 is something truly special. The dial texture AND color, the gold logo, the lug area polish and the gold seconds hand are a true celebration of the 9S.
> 
> It was the thin indices on the 267 and it's overall case shape that switched me back onto the 005 because the 267 is essentially a decorated version of the H001/3/5 (201/5) series sharing the thin and high hour indices which I love.
> 
> Bear in mind I'm just getting accustomed to this plainer 205 and many might rightfully say it's way too similar to have both 267 and 205 in a collection and I would tend to agree mostly.
> 
> But if you can be so extravagant, then the 205 has all the design beauty of the 267 evident in the purest form here, with the ultimate in understatement and hidden pleasure that can be found in a GS imo. There is absolutely no overt colour and the logo, indices and hands are all pure polished metal but the dial holds a secret allure unlike the 267 which would be considered outrageously flamboyant compared to the 205.
> 
> The Iwate dial was introduced as a white in the SBGL001 (the same case as the H267) and I believe the H005/205 is the first presentation of the Iwate dial in 'black'. Observers in real life will see though that the 205 has a beautiful golden dark greenish brown dial in stronger light that reveals the hidden beauty of this watch. It has all the shine, polish and quality of any other GS but when the dial comes alive it can keep one staring at it constantly. And just like a thoroughbred race horse this appropriately has the High-Beat 9S85 movement.
> 
> While I had originally traded my H037 for a H005 (the older logo dial which I certainly wouldn't have minded but didn't work out) the H205 has the 2x2 lines of text above and below the center which gives a more balanced and stately look imo.
> 
> I think it's a model that's worthy of strong consideration vs some of the more popular GS models. It isn't the sort of watch that is going to wow all who see it. But if you can live with that then I think it's a wonderful watch with which to experience one of the purest GS experiences you can have imo.
> 
> A real dark horse or "Black Beauty"
> 
> View attachment 13149271
> 
> 
> View attachment 13149273
> 
> 
> View attachment 13149275


I realize this is a bit outdated, but wanted to ask this owner about owning this watch, I have been obsessing over it and have seen it in person and can attest and totally agree with your observations, truly amazing piece in the most subtle of senses, indeed incredible and perhaps my next purchase which is why I'm writing.

My question to you owner/owners of SBGH005 and SBGH205, some of for prolonged times I hope, the way the dial changes colors does it ever bother or slightly bug you when in the light for extended periods/events?
... when its supposed to be a black dial, it becomes that alternate color, what are your thoughts?

I own a SBGA025 which I love and cherish and love the way the light plays with the dial but it remains white no matter the light... and do understand it will probably remain mostly black even in the shade correct?

But still just curious as your observations since I'm considering purchasing such a legend of a watch...

what are your thoughts?

J


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## kiddsch2

to be honest it bothers me the opposite way. The texture of the dial is almost invisible under most indoor light. It only become visible when you are outdoor.
And I am looking to flip my SBGH205 for a different reason. I recently become a dad and I have to carry my baby carrier, getting the carrier in and out from the car all the time. So it is not the best idea to have mirror polished watch on the wrist. 
You interested?


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## xuijtxal

Hmmm interesting, but for a dark horse, I imagine something like the blackness of a rolex sub, just deep black which this watch def is in alot of lighting? (gauging from the few times i handled this watch inside and outside the AD round here)
I own a casio oceanus with a cushion case, its dark in the shade and but then in the light, I agree with you about the texture because absolutely a huge part of the draw but just wonder about the color ratio what percentage of the time is the light exposing texture (lighter color) vs deeper black? ... which is the slot of watch i'm looking to fill in the collection, but can't seem to find anything close to the finish of GS, since have SBGA already, hibeat is the next logical choice
I'm looking to get the older sbgh005 since its more in my financial reach, looking to pay closer to 3k if, but I do like the simpler dial of the new, if your interested can talk over DM?


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## WacasG

Looks phenomenal


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## Mr_Pacman

Bumping an old thread here but what is the case called on the SBGH005 / SBGH205? It's not the 44GS case is it? It seems a bit unique as I haven't seen this style on any other models.


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## keerola

Mr_Pacman said:


> Bumping an old thread here but what is the case called on the SBGH005 / SBGH205? It's not the 44GS case is it? It seems a bit unique as I haven't seen this style on any other models.


SBGH001 and SBGH201 have the same case too. ”44GS inspired”, or so i’ve read from somewhere.


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