# D.Dornblüth & Sohn Forum Watch Project



## Bhanu Chopra

Hi,

I want to first get the official business out of way. This project is approved by Ernie Romers, Watchuseek site owner. I am in no way affiliated with Dornbluth brand, just a customer and an admirer 

Now that it out of the way, I came upon this idea from another watch forum members when they described the special forum watch Dirk worked with them at Baselworld. At a high level it was a bronze case, blue dial, and the cost was kept under 3,000 euros.

Dirk is very much open to a WUS forum watch. His only restriction is the delivery timing, which will be end of 2015 (Dec), but as always this can move up by few weeks.

Let's begin the discussion on what we want to see in Dornbluth forum watch. We can present the top 3 or 5 ideas to Dirk and finalize the forum watch with sign-up. Not everyone may be pleased with the results and there may also be passionate disagreements. We are all passionate about watches and the aesthetics is personal to each one of us. We can vote for the final design after consulting with Dirk on his thoughts (on what is possible).

Now for some motivation: First member to draw or present his/her vision of forum watch will be reserved #2 edition watch. Member whose vision was the base for forum watch, will get the honor of reserving #1 edition watch. I know it is a collective work, but a great idea should be rewarded. If either of the members choose just to participate in the vision, and not buy the watch, I will send out watch related goodies and I am sure Ernie will pitch in with WUS merchandise :-d

Cheers,
Bhanu

Visit the D.Dornblüth & Sohn website


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## Jfha1210

This is the best idea I've ever read in any watch forum!!!! 
I love Dornbluth watches -actually I'm saving for one of them... 
When there will be a registration list??? May I reserve number 12 from now on???? 
Thanks, Bhanu and Ernie, You have make me a very happy bunny tonight 😄


JH iPhone


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## Jfha1210

What about a very classic dress watch with a white dial, no numbers, just minimalistic applied indexes (like a Calatrava but applied, in grey) handwind movement similar to their 99.s, and black croco strap??? A true classic? I'll do my best to send a drawing tomorrow


JH iPhone


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## Bhanu Chopra

Thanks for the enthusiasm JH. Grey color is trending this year at Baselworld as well. I think Grey trend will be peaking over next two years. I am even good with a radiant grey (similar to the DD silver) dial.

Bhanu


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## Djk949

This is our chance to do a Jump Hour!!!!!!


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## Rubar

Greetings to all! 
Two years ago, I expressed the idea about LE on dornbluth.clubdiscussion (Limited edition for "DDS Forum"), but found no support from the forum's participants. In the end of last year I was able to find a few entusiastsl on the Russian Watch.ru forum and we began the project Cal.99.0 Bronze.

I with pleasure will participate in a new project and will try to be helpful, but I have a couple of questions.
What a number of alleged members of a project? Depends on how quickly the project will be implemented and its price. 
What is the estimated maximal price of watch?

Wih best regads,

Ruben


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## Vig2000

Amazing idea and what an incredibly exciting project! My preference: Steel case, white dial (enamel fired if possible), handwind movement, blue steel hands, 42mm size, power reserve display, date, and perhaps roman numeral indices.


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## Bhanu Chopra

Hi Ruben,
The results of the bronze edition were fantastic! 
The timeline as stated is end of this year - Dec 2015 per Dirk.
Pricing - I'd like to recommend similar pricing to the Russian forum. Keep it under 3,000 euros.


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## Bwana1

I'd love a Dornbluth, 38-39mm obviously hand wound, black dial & gold hands....but any classic style dial will suit me. I'm in, can't wait to see the results.

If the piece gets into the 41-42mm range, I'm out....too many larger pieces won't fit me already, in todays dressy watch market.


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## persco

This is an exciting idea and probably the only forum LE watch I have ever had interest in... I would support a classic, simple Dornbluth execution (no GMT or jump hour complications, etc), white enamel dial, blued hands, etc. Bronze would be very compelling. For me it would have to be a minimum of 40mm, preferably 42mm.


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## watchcrank_tx

Great idea. I'll be watching where this project goes with great interest. Would it be safe to assume the movement will be from the Unitas-based 99.x series? If so, those hoping for a sub-40mm watch may be disappointed.


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## fuzzyb

That bronze/blue collaboration is gorgeous!

I would like to see something with a dark gray dial and applied silver numerals. I'm thinking something along the lines of the Glashutte Original Panomatic Lunar XL gray. Sunburst or matte gray would work equally well. I'd prefer to keep the dial simple with just a subseconds dial. Here's a quick and dirty photoshop of one idea using gray.









My second choice would be a blue dial, applied silver numerals and silver hands. Either glossy dial and matte hands or matte dial and polished hands.

Actually, matte hands might be an interesting option with either dial color.

A third option is a white glossy dial with applied numerals. The kicker on this one would be to use a different flame colored hands. Moritz Grossman and Wei & Friends both have used flame purpled or flame browned hands to excellent use.

A final option, a white dial in bronze case with blued hands and markers. (Although I do like the idea of flame browned hands with a bronze case.)


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## ahkeelt

Here is my idea into this hat. I am in to buy - so if anyone is keeping track - please count me in. No hang ups on serial numbers - any will do... ;-)

- 39 mm x 11 mm x 20 mm lugs
- Hand-wound movement, copper/brass plates, red rubies, heat blue screws
- Dial - Greyish-blue sunburst
- Highly polished copper/brass markers enclosed in silver settings
- Lumed dots at 12-3-6-9
- No numerals
- Inert brass/copper hour and minute hands
- Inert brass/copper seconds hand being very very thin - with a circle at tail - just like their regulator watches
- Thin bezel
- Crown - classic style
- Made in Germany (if applicable) written in smallest font size and written in silver color
- Priced as suggested.


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## omeglycine

I have a Dornblueth on order already, but will certainly be keeping an eye on this thread as well. It seems almost criminal to suggest anything outside of the beautiful and classic aesthetics found in their watches, but I might as well go way off the grid if I'm going to make a suggestion and stay on or near the budget of €3,000 

What about a skeleton watch with a rhodium-plated caliber 99.0, blued hands and rhodium plated Arabic indices on a small, narrow white outer ring? Engraved sub seconds dial and Dornblueth name. Same dimensions as current 99.0 watch. And for a few hundred extra euros, maybe a bracelet as an option!

Or slightly more conventional, 99.0 caliber again with standard dial but applied baton silver baton indices instead, and a beautiful moonphase or big date replacing the small seconds subdial. Hands blued of course.


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## tomek123er

i see it as:
classic 42mm case
white enamel dial in marine style
applied numerals blued
termical blued hands
central second
big date 
power indicator somewhere on back plate of calibre


it will had D.D&S DNA, but it's probably out of budget


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## Rubar

hotnerd said:


> Hi Ruben,
> The results of the bronze edition were fantastic!
> The timeline as stated is end of this year - Dec 2015 per Dirk.
> Pricing - I'd like to recommend similar pricing to the Russian forum. Keep it under 3,000 euros.


Dear Bhanu,
At first let me clarify some points. As I know Dirk is now working on two LE.  First is Bronze edition with blue dial for Russian forum (two participants were invited not from Russia). Delivery time will be end 2014, the price is under 3000 euros(excl. VAT). Second is LE for the Spain based watch entusiasts club CTVS & co. The movement based on Cal.99.2 with additional moduls to include moon phase, full/new moon countdown and day/night indicators. Delivery time will be end 2015. Return to LE for WUS I like the idea with sceleton watch. From my side I want to offer the idea of classik watch with small second (38-39*9 mm case) based on the AS1130 or Peseux 7001, silver dial with applied indexces. Of course the movement must be finished in DDS style .


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## Rubar

tomek123er said:


> i see it as:
> clasic 42mm case
> white enamel dial in marine style
> applied numerals blued
> termical blued hands
> central second
> big date
> power indicator somewhere on back plate of calibre
> 
> it will had D.D&S DNA, but it's probably out of budget


Approximately 10000-12000 euro and 1-1.5 year delivery time. Some time ago I asked Dirk exactly about this set of equipment.:-( But we can try again...


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## tomek123er

Rubar said:


> Dear Bhanu,
> At first let me clarify some points. As I know Dirk is now working on two LE...


now in production is limited edition for the 10th anniversary of KMZiZ, but it's only 10 pieces, delivery in June. Panda style dark blue dial 99.2 variant.



Rubar said:


> Approximately 10000-12000 euro and 1-1.5 year delivery time. Some time ago I asked Dirk exactly about this set of equipment.:-( But we can try again...


I think I pass this one


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## Rubar

tomek123er said:


> now in production is limited edition for the 10th anniversary of KMZiZ, but it's only 10 pieces, delivery in June. Panda style dark blue dial 99.2 variant.


Very interesting! I didn't know about it!


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## Bhanu Chopra

Ruben thank you for the input and I viewed your thread on Russian watch forum using Google translate. I think the blue dial and bronze case is great combination. You also kept the price under 3,000 euros.

I think with very small business of Dornbluth, we understand the delivery end of 2015. I waited almost a year for my regular DD watch 

We will come up 3 to 5 final ideas and present them to Dirk. My request to Dirk is for 50 editions and keep the price under 3,000 euros.

I will confirm the number of watches possible when Dirk returns from Easter holidays.


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## Bhanu Chopra

Just a thought: instead of normal polished or brushed steel case, if we can suggest a case or treatment worthy of WUS project? keep in mind we want to keep the cost under 3k - so no platinum!


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## Jfha1210

What was the price for the 99.8???? It is stunning!!!!


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## Jfha1210

Just a quick photoshop try...


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## Glickman

Great idea! I'll surely participate, so please reserve #18 for me.

To keep the cost down, you'll be looking at the Cal. 99.0 in a non-precious metal 42mm case. I'd like to see a brown dial, with white luminous indices and hands. How about a special finish on the movement, like grainy yellow gold?


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## tomek123er

few dial colour and texture inspiration


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## Bhanu Chopra

Jfha1210 said:


> Just a quick photoshop try...


Like both of them :-!
They would look stunning with light grey dial.

What do you think of having Watchuseek "W" in one of the hands?


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## Bhanu Chopra

2nd one from the top is stunning!



tomek123er said:


> few dial colour inspiration
> View attachment 1459006
> View attachment 1459007
> View attachment 1459009
> View attachment 1459015


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## Bhanu Chopra

Agree on the non-precious dial but it should be interesting finish for the project.

As soon as Dirk confirms how many watches are possible, I will open a second thread for sign-up.



Glickman said:


> Great idea! I'll surely participate, so please reserve #18 for me.
> 
> To keep the cost down, you'll be looking at the Cal. 99.0 in a non-precious metal 42mm case. I'd like to see a brown dial, with white luminous indices and hands. How about a special finish on the movement, like grainy yellow gold?


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## Bwana1

It seems to me that we are doing this backwards ?

Shouldn't the movement & case size be chosen first, then design the handset & dial config/complications ?

Many might be interested in the project, but size will eliminate them from the final purchase. To haggle over dial colors and such, when the case could/will be 42mm...is a mute point for some.

If the case size range is 38mm-42mm....that's a very large span.


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## tomek123er

if have in mind price point, i think only calibre 99.0/99.1 comes to play, and the case size must be over 40mm, probably standard 42mm 

edit
unless it can be used as a base peseux or AS


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## Bwana1

tomek123er said:


> if have in mind price point, i think only calibre 99.0/99.1 comes to play, and the case size must be over 40mm, probably standard 42mm


You could be spot on, appreciate the response.

I heard the A 1130 being kicked around, which certainly can be housed in less than 40mm...but if the group is heading another direction, I'm cool with that...and I'm out.


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## watchcrank_tx

I agree that settling the movement first, then the size, then the other details would be a good order.

I would be in the "smaller is better" camp, but I'm also perhaps less likely than others to commit to a communal design of this price.


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## ck1109

I too think that we should finalize the case size and movement first before diving into dial design.

I vote for a 38-40mm case with a hand-wound movement.


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## sbutera

Great Idea! 

I'd be interested. Would like to see 38-41mm size case. Do like the idea of a white or even grey dial.


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## yamijaya

I like this project. I'm fine with any size, but 40mm is my favourite. I have no idea about movement so anything is fine. For dial detail, sunburst grey or fume with silver or gold hands would look nice, and applied numerical is the best.


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## ahkeelt

*Question:*
Who is Dirk and what other project links or pictures could one look at to get an idea? Sorry, I just got out from under a stone after hibernating this winter.

I agree with my friend Bwana1 - let's tackle the case/movement first. I am not sure I have enough knowledge to specify all it takes to define a case but I will jump in and say my piece. Experts pls drive this.....

- 39 mm dia
- 45 degree bezel
- Satin finish
- Stainless steel
- Exhibition back
- 20 mm lugs width
- Under 11 mm height of watch (don't know what it means the height of case should be)
- Short lugs - just like all DDS watches

In short - the case is exactly what DDS watches do today; with the exception of being thinner - it seems current DDS watch may be greater than 12 mm.

Experts - pls chime in!


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## omeglycine

yamijaya said:


> I like this project. I'm fine with any size, but 40mm is my favourite. I have no idea about movement so anything is fine. For dial detail, sunburst grey or fume with silver or gold hands would look nice, and applied numerical is the best.


I think 40mm is achievable with the 99.0 caliber, and I would support that case size. I just wonder if there's additional cost associated with deviating from the standard 42mm size. The budget at 3,000 euros is already pretty tight for a DD&S watch.


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## persco

ahkeelt said:


> *Question:*
> Who is Dirk and what other project links or pictures could one look at to get an idea? Sorry, I just got out from under a stone after hibernating this winter.


Dirk is Dirk Dornbluth, the owner of D.Dornbluth and Sons...D.Dornblüth & Sohn » HISTORY EN


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## ahkeelt

persco said:


> Dirk is Dirk Dornbluth, the owner of D.Dornbluth and Sons...D.Dornblüth & Sohn » HISTORY EN


Thank you! Hibernating also impacted my grey matter....

What forum watches did the OP refer to in reference to Russian forum or others?


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## StufflerMike

ahkeelt said:


> What forum watches did the OP refer to in reference to Russian forum or others?


Please read the posts of our member Rubar, will pretty much answer your questions.


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## ahkeelt

Thanks Mike - I see the Spanish one - not the Russian.


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## Bwana1

omeglycine said:


> I think 40mm is achievable with the 99.0 caliber, and I would support that case size. I just wonder if there's additional cost associated with deviating from the standard 42mm size. The budget at 3,000 euros is already pretty tight for a DD&S watch.


The Klassic Q is a 38.5mm dia. x 10mm hight case...using the cal. 2010.1 hand wound movement.

I think we need the case to remain in a smaller variety, to appeal to more members. As a dressy watch the smaller size is more versatile, even to the larger wristed members. A classic dress size falls in the 38-39mm territory, versus a sporty 40-41mm.

Just my thoughts.


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## Bhanu Chopra

Here is the Russian forum link (please use Google translate):
http://forum.watch.ru/showthread.php?t=194904

Here is a picture from their discussion (which Dirk had in Basel). Ruben can enlighten us further.



















stuffler said:


> Please read the posts of our member Rubar, will pretty much answer your questions.


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## Bwana1

Is that a bronze or gold case ?, we certainly won't stay in budget.....the dial is great.


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## Bhanu Chopra

Yes it is bronze, and their watch is under 3,000 euros.



Bwana1 said:


> Is that a bronze or gold case ?, we certainly won't stay in budget.....the dial is great.


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## Mediocre

Subscribing, interesting idea


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## Rubar

hotnerd said:


> Here is the Russian forum link (please use Google translate):
> http://forum.watch.ru/showthread.php?t=194904
> 
> Here is a picture from their discussion (which Dirk had in Basel). Ruben can enlighten us further.
> 
> View attachment 1461579
> 
> 
> View attachment 1461580


Greetings to all!
Thank you Bhanu for uploated pictures (don't know why, but I have problems with posting photos). The body case and buckle is bronze (CuSn8), case back is stainless steel,the hands and numerals is rose gold plated. Two participants preffered the scale of hours and minutes in yellow. The movement is Cal.99.0 with grainy rose gold plated three-quarter plate (as Cal.2010) with purple screws (some people preffered blue screws). 
As you can see it's Cal.99.0, main feature is a bronze case. My opinion is that it would be great if we could convince Dirk make wathes size is 38-39 mm on the basis of another handwind movement. 
I will correspond with Dirk on the 22nd. Can I be of use to you in this case?

Best regards,
Ruben


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## Bwana1

Rubar said:


> Greetings to all!
> Thank you Bhanu for uploated pictures (don't know why, but I have problems with posting photos). The body case and buckle is bronze (CuSn8), case back is stainless steel,the hands and numerals is rose gold plated. Two participants preffered the scale of hours and minutes in yellow. The movement is Cal.99.0 with grainy rose gold plated three-quarter plate (as Cal.2010) with purple screws (some people preffered blue screws).
> As you can see it's Cal.99.0, main feature is a bronze case. My opinion is that it would be great if we could convince Dirk make wathes size is 38-39 mm on the basis of another handwind movement.
> I will correspond with Dirk on the 22nd. Can I be of use to you in this case?
> 
> Best regards,
> Ruben


I agree, the 38-39mm makes the most sense for all. The bronze is questionable tho....some have allergic reactions, and mixing in the Rose gold hands & numerals doesn't appeal to me personally.

As I stated earlier the ca. 2010.1 movement will down size the case, but complication details would need approved by the group first.








Or in the same case size, an integrated power reserve indicator with the use of a ca 2010.2 movement.


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## omeglycine

Bwana1 said:


> I agree, the 38-39mm makes the most sense for all. The bronze is questionable tho....some have allergic reactions, and mixing in the Rose gold hands & numerals doesn't appeal to me personally. As I stated earlier the ca. 2010.1 movement will down size the case, but complication details would need approved by the group first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or in the same case size, an integrated power reserve indicator with the use of a ca 2010.2 movement.


I understand you have your heart set on 38-39mm, this much is clear. However, with the current movements we know to be available from DD&S and the stated objective budget of 3,000€, it simply isn't possible. You suggest using the in-house 2010 caliber, which is housed in current models more than double the budget. The 37mm cal 99 is the only one that meets the budget.


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## DanielW

This is really an awesome idea. As a Dornblüth 99.3 is on my list I would like to chime in, I would be satisfied with a 99.0 or 99.1 . I'm not THAT fond on the bronze, allthough it is something different and thats what a SE should be. What I do like is the blue dial with RG Arabics and the pointers in RG. Size wise I would be comfortable with anything between 38 and 42mm and a light brown croc band pretty please!

Again, awesome idea, just hoping my savings acc.... errrr wive approves.


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## Bwana1

omeglycine said:


> I understand you have your heart set on 38-39mm, this much is clear. However, with the current movements we know to be available from DD&S and the stated objective budget of 3,000€, it simply isn't possible. You suggest using the in-house 2010 caliber, which is housed in current models more than double the budget. The 37mm cal 99 is the only one that meets the budget.


I appreciate your insight, I see now that I looked at the pricing. True that a smaller version would make me happy, but I just want to buy a watch :-!

I do think a 42mm minimum size, will push many enthusiastic members out of the mix. It certainly swings the style to sporty, and not typical dress size. With that in mind, the dial configuration will change in my mind...to remain true to the piece's nature. Something in the 99.2 configuration would suit me nicely.


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## omeglycine

If it's any consolation, I would prefer a 39-40mm to a 42mm size, just for variety's sake as I have a 99.1 currently on order. But like you I am also going to watch this space closely regardless of case size to see if there's another Dornblueth to entice me!


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## Bhanu Chopra

Project clarification:

The bronze case I mentioned was just an example of what the Russian forum members have requested. Please do not accept this as WUS forum watch. We will design our own unique watch with different case, material, hands, dial, and possibly request movement we think is appropriate.

Thank you,
Bhanu



DanielW said:


> This is really an awesome idea. As a Dornblüth 99.3 is on my list I would like to chime in, I would be satisfied with a 99.0 or 99.1 . I'm not THAT fond on the bronze, allthough it is something different and thats what a SE should be. What I do like is the blue dial with RG Arabics and the pointers in RG. Size wise I would be comfortable with anything between 38 and 42mm and a light brown croc band pretty please!
> 
> Again, awesome idea, just hoping my savings acc.... errrr wive approves.


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## Bhanu Chopra

Ruben, yes ofcourse. We are working on this collectively so your help is appreciated. When you correspond with Dirk, can you please copy me? ([email protected])

If the it turns out that the movement will not fit the project budget, then we can go back to original thought. But it is worth a try.

Thanks,
Bhanu



Rubar said:


> Greetings to all!
> Thank you Bhanu for uploated pictures (don't know why, but I have problems with posting photos). The body case and buckle is bronze (CuSn8), case back is stainless steel,the hands and numerals is rose gold plated. Two participants preffered the scale of hours and minutes in yellow. The movement is Cal.99.0 with grainy rose gold plated three-quarter plate (as Cal.2010) with purple screws (some people preffered blue screws).
> As you can see it's Cal.99.0, main feature is a bronze case. My opinion is that it would be great if we could convince Dirk make wathes size is 38-39 mm on the basis of another handwind movement.
> I will correspond with Dirk on the 22nd. Can I be of use to you in this case?
> 
> Best regards,
> Ruben


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## DanielW

hotnerd said:


> Project clarification:
> 
> The bronze case I mentioned was just an example of what the Russian forum members have requested. Please do not accept this as WUS forum watch. We will design our own unique watch with different case, material, hands, dial, and possibly request movement we think is appropriate.
> 
> Thank you,
> Bhanu





hotnerd said:


> Project clarification:
> 
> The bronze case I mentioned was just an example of what the Russian forum members have requested. Please do not accept this as WUS forum watch. We will design our own unique watch with different case, material, hands, dial, and possibly request movement we think is appropriate.
> 
> Thank you,
> Bhanu


In that case I misunderstood, I thought it would be based on the Russian LE watch.

What I would like to see; SS 99.1 (prefer 99.3 with date, but won't be a option I think) as I like the more stretched subdial the most in comparison to the 99.0, plain dark blue dial (flakes or sunburst can be nice, but not on a Dornbluth) with applied rhodium plated indices/markers and a light brown croc strap. 42mm size isnt a issue, but I recon it could be requested to go 40mm??


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## Rubar

Sorry guys, I probably led you astray. I'm not suggesting bronze body for WUS LE, I only gave a description of our watches.



Bwana1 said:


> I agree, the 38-39mm makes the most sense for all. The bronze is questionable tho....some have allergic reactions, and mixing in the Rose gold hands & numerals doesn't appeal to me personally.
> 
> As I stated earlier the ca. 2010.1 movement will down size the case, but complication details would need approved by the group first.
> 
> Or in the same case size, an integrated power reserve indicator with the use of a ca 2010.2 movement.


I think it is impossible for 3000 euro for 2010 movement. Also impossible have any complication for this amount (power reserve or date indicator). 
If we want the 38-39 mm we have to bear in mind another movements. Previously Dirk did LE using vinage movements.
If we want the 42 mm in this case it will be Cal.99.0, 99.1 or Centersecond.


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## drhr

38 -39 along the lines of the Center Second (pic posted else where on WUS) would get my interest, even with other than the already established Dornblueth movements . . .


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## LH2

This has my interest- if it ends up 40mm or less, and not too many complications.


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## tomek123er

it's impossible to fit unitas into sub 40mm case, so i think with all this interest in <40mm next move should be ask Dirk about other possibilities of movment bases (2010.x is way too expensive).


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## Rubar

We talk about the price in 3000 euro. Is this international price?


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## tomek123er

Rubar said:


> We talk about the price in 3000 euro. Is this international price?


you mean is it inc. or excl. vat ? - good question

little sneak peek  Zegarek na 10lecie - projekt KMZiZ 2014


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## Rubar

tomek123er said:


> you mean is it inc. or excl. vat ? - good question


Yes. Thank you for link.


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## omeglycine

drhr said:


> 38 -39 along the lines of the Center Second (pic posted else where on WUS) would get my interest, even with other than the already established Dornblueth movements . . .


Center Second would be of greatest interest to me as well. I would also be very open to no second hand with a caliber 99.0 and a moonphase or large date at 6 if possible.

Another poster mentioned a dark blue dial with applied indices; I believe Rubar has a center seconds in that configuration, and it is AMAZING. But I wouldn't want to steal his design or any other. Even if just minor tweaks, I think the WUS project should be unique.


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## Jfha1210

If we are going to stick to current DDS movements in order to make it "afordable", I prefer 99.1 to 99.0... 

Anyway, it would be incredible to include any other complication (reserve de marche, date, moonphase) for the price... 


JH iPhone


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## Bwana1

Rubar said:


> If we want the 38-39 mm we have to bear in mind another movements. Previously Dirk did LE using vinage movements.
> If we want the 42 mm in this case it will be Cal.99.0, 99.1 or Centersecond.


I'd be very interested to hear what movement offerings are available, even vintage may open size options...DDS will only use high quality parts, when they put their name on the watch.



tomek123er said:


> it's impossible to fit unitas into sub 40mm case, so i think with all this interest in <40mm next move should be ask Dirk about other possibilities of movment bases (2010.x is way too expensive).


Once again we should explore movement options, it may let complications enter the conversation...due to lower movement price point.



omeglycine said:


> But I wouldn't want to steal his design or any other. Even if just minor tweaks, I think the WUS project should be unique.


I agree, just so we don't insert a WUS logo on the dial.



Jfha1210 said:


> Anyway, it would be incredible to include any other complication (reserve de marche, date, moonphase) for the price...
> JH iPhone


A power reserve, or sub-second dial would make me happy.


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## Cursor

I am interested. I think a good point is made here that every Unitas based Dornbluth I've seen has been 40mm or larger. I'd be happiest with 42 myself. And I'd love to get a central seconds. I realize that this is a complication for the Unitas, and might drive up the price a bit. I'd probably stop there, so something in the line of the Centersecond. It would be nice to have hacking of some flavor as well. I wonder if we might put some color into the dial. I like the navy blue that everyone has been talking about, but perhaps something a little further afield? Charcoal gray with silver numerals, perhaps? With a crocodile strap to match. 

Generally I prefer a matte case, but I think in this case, polished might be more in order. Now that I've typed this up, I fear this watch is not in the 3000 Euro price range...


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## Rubar

Some informaion for reflection 



Bwana1 said:


> I'd be very interested to hear what movement offerings are available, even vintage may open size options...DDS will only use high quality parts, when they put their name on the watch.


Previously Dirk did the following LE:
2004 Cal.03.0 base movement GUB 60.3, the case size 33 mm
2006 Cal.04.0 base movement AS 1560 + GUB, the case size 38 mm
2010 Jasmin 09 base movement ETA 1120, the case size 34,5 mm

As we see Dirk at different times has used various movements and I think there is a good chance to convince him to make a WUS LE on another movement. When we speak about 38-39 mm I start to tink about Peseux 7001 (23,3*2,5 mm, power reserve 42 h) or AS 1130 (29,0*3,8 mm power reserve 41 h ).

Question. Whether interested Dirk searching the market for these 50 movments? Maybe one of us has contacts in the watch industry and can help to find them?

The prices for 99.xx series (case SS, valid until 31.12.2014, incl. 19% VAT)
Cal.99.0 - 3200 euro (with stop second mechaism)
Cal.99.1 - 3700 euro (with stop second mechaism)
Center second -3900 euro

Applied numerals + 200 euro

We must understand that for the European participants the price will be different from 3000 Euro. Or Dirk will make special discount for us?


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## Bwana1

Rubar said:


> Some informaion for reflection
> 
> Previously Dirk did the following LE:
> 2004 Cal.03.0 base movement GUB 60.3, the case size 33 mm
> 2006 Cal.04.0 base movement AS 1560 + GUB, the case size 38 mm
> 2010 Jasmin 09 base movement ETA 1120, the case size 34,5 mm
> 
> As we see Dirk at different times has used various movements and I think there is a good chance to convince him to make a WUS LE on another movement. *When we speak about 38-39 mm I start to tink about Peseux 7001 (23,3*2,5 mm, power reserve 42 h) or AS 1130 (29,0*3,8 mm power reserve 41 h ).*


Appreciate the info, both are great movements...I have both. And the size meets the standard dressy style for most wrists.

I think a conversation with Dirk will fill in some blanks, that will be very helpful in knowing the base in which we start. Otherwise it's pure dreaming, to continue with dial/complications options.

At some point is a down payment required, prior to final design layout ? I ask because those actually purchasing the watch, should have voting rights in the final design....after approved by Dirk of course.


----------



## Rubar

Bwana1 said:


> Appreciate the info, both are great movements...I have both. And the size meets the standard dressy style for most wrists.
> 
> I think a conversation with Dirk will fill in some blanks, that will be very helpful in knowing the base in which we start. Otherwise it's pure dreaming, to continue with dial/complications options.
> 
> At some point is a down payment required, prior to final design layout ? I ask because those actually purchasing the watch, should have voting rights in the final design....after approved by Dirk of course.


Absolutely. Sorry for off, but what two models to your? I have 04.0 ;-)


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## fuzzyb

The Peseux is a nice movement. I'm not familiar with the AS 1130, but from the photos it looks interesting. Another movement I am fond of is the Lemania 8815. My guess is that would be more difficult to source, but it's a wonderfully thin movement which would allow for a low profile.



Rubar said:


> Some informaion for reflection
> 
> Previously Dirk did the following LE:
> 2004 Cal.03.0 base movement GUB 60.3, the case size 33 mm
> 2006 Cal.04.0 base movement AS 1560 + GUB, the case size 38 mm
> 2010 Jasmin 09 base movement ETA 1120, the case size 34,5 mm
> 
> As we see Dirk at different times has used various movements and I think there is a good chance to convince him to make a WUS LE on another movement. When we speak about 38-39 mm I start to tink about Peseux 7001 (23,3*2,5 mm, power reserve 42 h) or AS 1130 (29,0*3,8 mm power reserve 41 h ).
> 
> Question. Whether interested Dirk searching the market for these 50 movments? Maybe one of us has contacts in the watch industry and can help to find them?
> 
> The prices for 99.xx series (case SS, valid until 31.12.2014, incl. 19% VAT)
> Cal.99.0 - 3200 euro (with stop second mechaism)
> Cal.99.1 - 3700 euro (with stop second mechaism)
> Center second -3900 euro
> 
> Applied numerals + 200 euro
> 
> We must understand that for the European participants the price will be different from 3000 Euro. Or Dirk will make special discount for us?


----------



## Rubar

fuzzyb said:


> The Peseux is a nice movement. I'm not familiar with the AS 1130, but from the photos it looks interesting. Another movement I am fond of is the Lemania 8815. My guess is that would be more difficult to source, but it's a wonderfully thin movement which would allow for a low profile.


Automatic, why not.


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## tomek123er

Lemania 8815 is an automatic movement , so it's not suitable for project. Maybe we can find some manual GUB, and result of 100% german made ( a little bit DDR inside )


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## Rubar

tomek123er said:


> Lemania 8815 is an automatic movement , so it's not suitable for project. Maybe we can find some manual GUB, and result of 100% german made ( a little bit DDR inside  )


You won't believe, but I recently spoke to Dirk with this question. Unfortunately, nothing happened.


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## DanielW

Wouldnt mind the GUB, what does bother me are the costs to aquire them. A DD&S is a very nice watch even with the (nicely decorated) Unitas/ETA. I agree with most handwound is a pre requisite for this project. Anyway I very happy with this idea and willing to put some other watchspending on a hold


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## fuzzyb

tomek123er said:


> Lemania 8815 is an automatic movement , so it's not suitable for project. Maybe we can find some manual GUB, and result of 100% german made ( a little bit DDR inside )





DanielW said:


> Wouldnt mind the GUB, what does bother me are the costs to aquire them. A DD&S is a very nice watch even with the (nicely decorated) Unitas/ETA. I agree with most handwound is a pre requisite for this project. Anyway I very happy with this idea and willing to put some other watchspending on a hold


I didn't realize automatic movements were removed from consideration. Was a decision already made that it must be a handwound movement? I must have missed that memo? I'd take the Lemania I mentioned before quite a few handwinders out there. I prefer handwound movements, but I find the idea of an automatic Dornblueth somewhat intriguing, especially if it is not a run-of-the-mill movement.


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## DanielW

Ow no you didnt miss the memo m8 I was just speaking my mind out loud. Somehow a dressier watch is the most appealing as a handwound for me. If it would be an automatic which is within budget but something more special than a 2824 I would be very happy to oblige.


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## Jfha1210

+1 to hand wound movement here! In my opinion, an automatic Dornbluth would lost its soul... I find more beautiful the view of the decorated movement without a rotor. Just my 2 cents


JH iPhone


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## drhr

Jfha1210 said:


> +1 to hand wound movement here! In my opinion, an automatic Dornbluth would lost its soul... I find more beautiful the view of the decorated movement without a rotor. Just my 2 cents
> 
> JH iPhone


Agree, when I think DD&S, I think hand wind. Not that an auto would be any less popular (in general) or beautiful frontside but for me, it would be somewhat disappointing. . .


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## fuzzyb

No worries as I thought I missed something about the guidelines. My concern is that if it is not going to be the Cal. 99.0, I would want a worthwhile movement under the hood. My preference would be to use the Cal. 99.0, but it appears that many would not like the case size required to house that movement.


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## ck1109

I'm partial to hand wound movements, but I'll admit that the idea of unique Dornbluth with a Lemania auto movement is appealing. Hmm...


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## Jfha1210

It is probably better to wait for Dirk considerations, but it is very difficult!!! (I'm enthusiasted with this project...) 😄


JH iPhone


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## IGotId

Vig2000 said:


> Amazing idea and what an incredibly exciting project! My preference: Steel case, white dial (enamel fired if possible), handwind movement, blue steel hands, 42mm size, power reserve display, date, and perhaps roman numeral indices.





persco said:


> This is an exciting idea and probably the only forum LE watch I have ever had interest in... I would support a classic, simple Dornbluth execution (no GMT or jump hour complications, etc), white enamel dial, blued hands, etc. Bronze would be very compelling. For me it would have to be a minimum of 40mm, preferably 42mm.





tomek123er said:


> i see it as:
> classic 42mm case
> white enamel dial in marine style
> applied numerals blued
> termical blued hands
> central second
> big date
> power indicator somewhere on back plate of calibre
> 
> it will had D.D&S DNA, but it's probably out of budget





yamijaya said:


> I like this project. I'm fine with any size, but 40mm is my favourite. I have no idea about movement so anything is fine. For dial detail, sunburst grey or fume with silver or gold hands would look nice, and applied numerical is the best.





omeglycine said:


> I think 40mm is achievable with the 99.0 caliber, and I would support that case size. I just wonder if there's additional cost associated with deviating from the standard 42mm size. The budget at 3,000 euros is already pretty tight for a DD&S watch.


Very interesting idea/thread! I've been in contact with Dirk for awhile as I've been interested in ordering from him. Unfortunately he recently informed me that he is no longer doing enamel dials. I've also enquirer about the possibility of a 40mm case & was told that it was not possible (months ago).

I really like the idea of the above gray dial. I'd also love a gray ruthenium dial. Also, would a 'large date' be possible?


----------



## DanielW

Just a idea, but what if dirk can't or isnt willing to do (which is perfectly fine, he has a bussines to run!) what we would like to have within the budget; no smaller case size, no other than unitas movement, no enamel dial. What would be left, a different color dial? Other pointers and markers? Is that special enough to call it a forum edition if it can just look like any other DD&S? Again, a DD&S is a very nice and unique watch!


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## omeglycine

So...we have it figured out yet?


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## Bhanu Chopra

omeglycine said:


> So...we have it figured out yet?


Awaiting reply from Dirk. I hope to have an answer by tomorrow.


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## omeglycine

hotnerd said:


> Awaiting reply from Dirk. I hope to have an answer by tomorrow.


Cool, thanks for the response. Looking forward to reading Dirk's reply!


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## Bhanu Chopra

omeglycine said:


> Cool, thanks for the response. Looking forward to reading Dirk's reply!


Still no response today. Hoping to hear on Monday.


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## Bwana1

hotnerd said:


> Still no response today. Hoping to hear on Monday.


I'm very interested in the project, can't wait to hear Dirk's thoughts.


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## fuzzyb

I'm looking forward to hearing what options might be available. This could be an interesting project!


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## Der Amf

Unfortunately there's no chance whatsover of my being involved in this adventure, but I hope you won't be me saying aloud a thought I had:

at the moment in the Dornbluth range the only sub-40mm option is also the most expensive. If it were possible for, say, AS1130s to be fitted into the smaller standard case, then the project would be doing a real service, in the sense of opening up the market.

On the other hand, it wouldn't be doing any kind of service to people who want the standard cases or movements, so..... ;-)

All the best for this project, I foresee much joy. (And a lot of waiting)


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## geoffbot

Dirk's movements are to die for, but I'm but a fan of marine numerals or hands, so this could be perfect! I can't really afford it but if I like it I'll find a way


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## fuzzyb

I attended the Watchbuys Philly Road Show today and had my first hands on experience with Dornblueth today. Needless to say, I was not disappointed. What did surprise me, however, was how much I like the central seconds model. That long central second hand looks fantastic. I like the extra bridge on the back as it looks even more removed from the standard Unitas look. If the project requires the use of an existing Dornblueth movement to keep it within the desired budget, that may actually be my top choice over the 99.0.

I also saw a Benzinger with purplish heat treated screws and that remains something I'd like to see as it is out of the ordinary. I could see the Central Seconds model with white dial and applied numerals with purple heat treated hands. Maybe even something like rhodium plated numerals with a purple 12 as a nod to those early red 12 trench watches.


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## Bhanu Chopra

Update:
Dirk responded to the options and requests we have discussed:

Regarding case size and complication I need to inform you that we can only offer our inhouse movement in 38.5mm case size.
Unfortunately that would not fit the price range below 3.000 Euro, you requested. At a given price of 3.000- maybe 3.500 Euro I can offer you to take a given model of Cal. 99.x (99.0, 99.1 or Centre Seconds) and discuss details like dial configuration, case material and finish.

Dirk stated that 50 edition watches is possible but then realistic timeline will be Summer 2016.

I know it seems 2 years away, but I look at it as an opportunity to refine our final design and it gives us time to save up for this project 

Please give your opinion on case size, movement, center second (for additional cost), dial, and case material.


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## Bwana1

I have to be honest, I'm very confused as to what we ACTUALLY are getting for a bulk buy ?....versus just ordering a standard model. The pricing doesn't reflect a discount(according to Watchbuys)...and it's not a unique piece, other than a mass decided dial & case.

It's a stock 99xx case, stock movement, stock price and a 2 year waiting period...sounds like a good deal for DDS. 

Odds of you getting 50 members to buck up $5000 US, for a: 
>42mm casual deck watch
>Stock configuration
>2 year waiting period
>No discount
>Mass chosen dial

Is slim to none, and Slim just left town....JMHO


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## Bhanu Chopra

Thanks for being optimistic. As Dirk stated that we can request our material for case (just like Russian forum members did). We can request our version of dial and hands.
We can request which movement depending on the case size. I am still pushing for a complication like suggested (Big Date), but for a small family business, it takes time to develop.

If your thought is about discount - we are attempting to create something unique and not just a bulk buy. Ofcourse, I am pushing to keep the cost reasonable for DD watch, so we can keep it close to 3,000 euros.



Bwana1 said:


> I have to be honest, I'm very confused as to what we ACTUALLY are getting for a bulk buy ?....versus just ordering a standard model. The pricing doesn't reflect a discount(according to Watchbuys)...and it's not a unique piece, other than a mass decided dial & case.
> 
> It's a stock 99xx case, stock movement, stock price and a 2 year waiting period...sounds like a good deal for DDS.
> 
> Odds of you getting 50 members to buck up $5000 US, for a:
> >42mm casual deck watch
> >Stock configuration
> >2 year waiting period
> >No discount
> >Mass chosen dial
> 
> Is slim to none, and Slim just left town....JMHO


----------



## Bwana1

hotnerd said:


> Update:
> Dirk responded to the options and requests we have discussed:
> 
> Regarding case size and complication I need to inform you that we can only offer our inhouse movement in 38.5mm case size.
> Unfortunately that would not fit the price range below 3.000 Euro, you requested. At a given price of 3.000- maybe 3.500 Euro *I can offer you to take a given model of Cal. 99.x (99.0, 99.1 or Centre Seconds)* and discuss details like dial configuration, case material and finish.
> 
> Dirk stated that 50 edition watches is possible but then realistic timeline will be Summer 2016.
> 
> I know it seems 2 years away, but I look at it as an opportunity to refine our final design and it gives us time to save up for this project
> 
> Please give your opinion on case size, movement, *center second (for additional cost)*, dial, and case material.





hotnerd said:


> Thanks for being optimistic. As Dirk stated that we can request our material for case (just like Russian forum members did). We can request our version of dial and hands.
> *We can request which movement depending on the case size*. I am still pushing for a complication like suggested (Big Date), but for a small family business, it takes time to develop.
> 
> If your thought is about discount - we are attempting to create something unique and not just a bulk buy. Ofcourse, I am pushing to keep the cost reasonable for DD watch, so we can keep it close to 3,000 euros.


I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but these are the facts.

_"The *D. Dornblüth & Sohne Manufacture produces between 100 and 150 watches per year*"_

So we intend to massively increase the volume, without any marketing or sales investment incurred by DDS....And will receive a watch with a mass chosen dial & hand set ?, receive no marginal discount, but have a unique watch ?...like I said, that's a great deal for DDS.

I must be reading Dirk's statement differently than you, he stated a 99xx case & movement configuration...so the case size is set. The case *material* is a given, stainless with "chosen" finish...gold is out of budget, bronze will push members out & make dial configuration difficult.

I see the main problem as the case size, forced to a 42mm size...which limits it's use as a dress watch. This opinion is based on many WUS average wrist size threads, the standard being 37mm-39.5mm. If that trend in sales continues, many members will drop out. I'm not being negative, I'm thrilled about the project...but substantially increasing a manufacturers yearly production, should allow for some latitude in movement options/pricing....JMHO


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## Rubar

Bwana1 said:


> I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but these are the facts.
> 
> _"Dieter Dornblüth had been repairing watches in Kalbe (located in ... The 09 Jasmin is named after Dirk's youngest daughter and was made in ... The *D. Dornblüth & Sohne Manufacture produces between 100 and 150 watches per year*"_
> 
> So we intend to massively increase the volume, without any marketing or sales investment incurred by DDS....And will receive a watch with a mass chosen dial & hand set ?, receive no marginal discount, but have a unique watch ?...like I said, that's a great deal for DDS.
> 
> I must be reading Dirk's statement differently than you, he stated a 99xx case & movement configuration...so the case size is set. The case *material* is a given, stainless with "chosen" finish...gold is out of budget, bronze will push members out & make dial configuration difficult.
> 
> I see the main problem as the case size, forced to a 42mm size...which limits it's use as a dress watch. This opinion is based on many WUS average wrist size threads, the standard being 37mm-39.5mm. If that trend in sales continues, many members will drop out. I'm not being negative, I'm thrilled about the project...but substantially increasing a manufacturers yearly production, should allow for some latitude in movement options/pricing....JMHO


The problem is that we do not increase the volume. Dirk has limited production area and is unlikely to hire new masters under this project. Its 150 watches he will sell and without our project. On the other hand, this project is a good advertisement for him and in my opinion we can expect 10-15% discount.
If we have the opportunity to find on the market appropriate movements, in this case we can expect on the 38-39 mm model. Himself Dirk they will not search.
Besides that,as I understand it, Dirk leaves us freedom of choice for the hands, dial's design and style of movement finishing. We can come up with many interesting and different from the standard set that will make our model is unique.


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## rationaltime

Bwana1 said:


> I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but these are the facts.
> 
> _"The *D. Dornblüth & Sohne Manufacture produces between 100 and 150 watches per year*"_
> 
> So we intend to massively increase the volume, without any marketing or sales investment incurred by DDS....And will receive a watch with a mass chosen dial & hand set ?, receive no marginal discount, but have a unique watch ?...like I said, that's a great deal for DDS.
> 
> I must be reading Dirk's statement differently than you, he stated a 99xx case & movement configuration...so the case size is set. The case *material* is a given, stainless with "chosen" finish...gold is out of budget, bronze will push members out & make dial configuration difficult.
> 
> I see the main problem as the case size, forced to a 42mm size...which limits it's use as a dress watch. This opinion is based on many WUS average wrist size threads, the standard being 37mm-39.5mm. If that trend in sales continues, many members will drop out. I'm not being negative, I'm thrilled about the project...but substantially increasing a manufacturers yearly production, should allow for some latitude in movement options/pricing....JMHO


That appears to over estimate the influence of the project.
With a lead time of 10 months minimum it seems there is enough
demand that Dornblüth is already production limited. I don't see
an incentive for a substantial discount.

Thanks,
rationaltime


----------



## Bwana1

Rubar said:


> The problem is that we do not increase the volume. Dirk has limited production area and is unlikely to hire new masters under this project. Its 150 watches he will sell and without our project. On the other hand, this project is a good advertisement for him and in my opinion we can expect 10-15% discount.
> *If we have the opportunity to find on the market appropriate movements, in this case we can expect on the 38-39 mm model.* Himself Dirk they will not search.
> Besides that,as I understand it, Dirk leaves us freedom of choice for the hands, dial's design and style of movement finishing. We can come up with many interesting and different from the standard set that will make our model is unique.


I'm hoping you're right on the size, but the option for old/vintage movements seems to be out of the conversation. I certainly hope we can procure movements, that will allow flexibility in case size. I'm certain the 42mm case, will be a negative issue for many members. Maybe a general poll of those "interested", would start the ball rolling ?



rationaltime said:


> That appears to over estimate the influence of the project.
> With a lead time of 10 months minimum it seems there is enough
> demand that Dornblüth is already production limited. I don't see
> an incentive for a substantial discount.
> 
> Thanks,
> rationaltime


I don't disagree... by _"allow for some latitude in movement options/pricing"_ I meant options in movements(old stock, vintage, etc)...which would allow case size options. I'm not interested in a "price" discount, but instead some latitude in movements beyond DDS standard...still allowing for unique, and size options.


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## DanielW

I kinda agree with Bwana as it matches my previous statement, but my negativity is now less as dirk has stated he is willing to do something different with case, dial, hands and markers.

How I see it now; light brown enamel dial, blued hands but not the typical deckwatch hands, applied rhodium plated markers. Polished case with brushed lugs if possible. Im still a bigger fan of the larger small seconds.


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## drhr

Oh well, at 42 mm I'll reluctantly have to wait for something else. But as long as it's typical DDS quality, I'm guessing there won't be enough produced to satisfy the total demand no matter the parameters . . .


----------



## Bwana1

drhr said:


> Oh well, at 42 mm I'll reluctantly have to wait for something else. But as long as it's typical DDS quality, I'm guessing there won't be enough produced to satisfy the total demand no matter the parameters . . .


Michael, have patience...the smaller version may become a fruition if alternate movements are available. Your opinion is important, as a discerning collector with impeccable taste...we could all use you on board.


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## Rubar

What do you think about this version?

I mean a dial,hands, Roman numerals.Little Lang & Heineshe  . Enamel dial is impossible, but maybe try lacquered?


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## Bwana1

Rubar said:


> What do you think about this version?
> 
> I mean a dial,hands, Roman numerals.Little Lang & Heineshe  . Enamel dial is impossible, but maybe try lacquered?


The Roman numerals aren't for me(only because it leaves the deck watch style), sticking to a DDS traditional version of a Regulator...I like


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## fuzzyb

Bwana1 said:


> The Roman numerals aren't for me, sticking to a DDS traditional version of a Regulator...I like
> View attachment 1474385


Now that would be nice! I wonder if a regulator without the power reserve could be done for the targeted budget?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jfha1210

I'm in... Just waiting to start discussing the characteristics! 


JH iPhone


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## nebulight

I also had my first hands on with Dornbluth this past weekend at the Watchbuys event so I'll be keeping my eyes on this thread. 

I'd be fine with a standard case set (not bronze) with some custom dial or heat blued markers in addition to the blued hands. I'd like to see an Up/Down movement, but not sure if it would fit the price point.


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## Rubar

Some ideas for discussion:
1. Pilot watch (type A or B ) based on Center Second mov., charcoal dial,numerals coated with SuperLumiNova, blued hands ( in accordance with the type) with SuperLumiNova, grained yellow gold plated 3/4 plate.
2. Pilot watch with second's sub dial on "9" based on Cal.99.2 without PR indicator, charcoal dial,numerals coated with SuperLumiNova, blued hands with SuperLumiNova, grained yellow gold plated 3/4 plate.
3. Marine type based on Cal.99.0 or 99.1 with blued "Alpha" type hour and minute hands with SuperLumiNova, gray dial with dark blue printed scales and numerals, grained yellow gold plated 3/4 plate.

The price should be between 3000-3500 euro.

What do you think?


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## Bhanu Chopra

I have requested Dirk about developing a big date complication in time for 2016. I have also requested external movements - vintage or otherwise.

Ruben, I do like your idea #3 of Marine. Anyone dare to mock up the ideas? I think if we can express these ideas in mock up pictures, will begin to get a better understanding.

I also like DanielW's idea


----------



## Rubar

hotnerd said:


> I have requested Dirk about developing a big date complication in time for 2016. I have also requested external movements - vintage or otherwise.
> 
> Ruben, I do like your idea #3 of Marine. Anyone dare to mock up the ideas? I think if we can express these ideas in mock up pictures, will begin to get a better understanding.
> 
> I also like DanielW's idea


I also like DanielW's idea, but I have some doubts regarding the braun enamel dial . Dirk no longer does enamel dial (maybe laquered?) and three years ago I was refused regarding braun dial ( perhaps something has changed?). 
Big date complication is a good idea but not sure if it would fit the price point. Unfortunately I don't know how to make layouts. I hope someone can help us with this question.


----------



## Glickman

Rubar said:


> I also like DanielW's idea, but I have some doubts regarding the braun enamel dial . Dirk no longer does enamel dial (maybe laquered?) and three years ago I was refused regarding braun dial ( perhaps something has changed?).
> Big date complication is a good idea but not sure if it would fit the price point. Unfortunately I don't know how to make layouts. I hope someone can help us with this question.


I'm reaffirming my desire to see a brown dial. If enamel is a possibility, I'm fairly certain that would preclude the use of applied numerals. With Rubar on the case, we'll no doubt get to the answers!


----------



## Jfha1210

Rubar said:


> Some ideas for discussion:
> 1. Pilot watch (type A or B ) based on Center Second mov., charcoal dial,numerals coated with SuperLumiNova, blued hands ( in accordance with the type) with SuperLumiNova, grained yellow gold plated 3/4 plate.
> 2. Pilot watch with second's sub dial on "9" based on Cal.99.2 without PR indicator, charcoal dial,numerals coated with SuperLumiNova, blued hands with SuperLumiNova, grained yellow gold plated 3/4 plate.
> 3. Marine type based on Cal.99.0 or 99.1 with blued "Alpha" type hour and minute hands with SuperLumiNova, gray dial with dark blue printed scales and numerals, grained yellow gold plated 3/4 plate.
> 
> The price should be between 3000-3500 euro.
> 
> What do you think?


IMHO if this would be the only three options, I would pick the third one... For another flieger, I would prefer a LE made by one the five originals (Laco, Stowa, IWC, L&S or Wempe). For me, DD&S means Marine watches... Or as I said before I'd love a true dress watch (w minimalistic design, white dial... Something that could play in the Big Ones category) made with the quality of this wonderful brand. 
Just my 2 cents

JH iPhone


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## Jfha1210

A big date complication would be also great... 


JH iPhone


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## Bwana1

Jfha1210 said:


> DD&S means Marine watches... Or as I said before I'd love a true dress watch (w minimalistic design, white dial... Something that could play in the Big Ones category) made with the quality of this wonderful brand.
> Just my 2 cents


I agree whole heartily.



Jfha1210 said:


> A big date complication would be also great...
> 
> JH iPhone


A true "dress watch" doesn't have a date function.


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## Jfha1210

Bwana1 said:


> I agree whole heartily.
> 
> A true "dress watch" doesn't have a date function.


I agree with you, I was just making comments on different proposals...

JH iPhone


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## Bwana1

Jfha1210 said:


> I agree with you, I was just making comments on different proposals...
> 
> JH iPhone


No problem here friend 

I think that's our biggest hurtle, size & complications(or lack of).


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## omeglycine

I can't remember if I mentioned this before, but if we are talking dress watches I would be open to just hours and minutes, no sub sub seconds, in cal 99.0 (least expensive current movement), with Breguet hands and either applied indices or maybe a nice central guilloche pattern. Also open to other suitable, sourced movements if aiming between 38-40mm.


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## ahkeelt

omeglycine said:


> I can't remember if I mentioned this before, but if we are talking dress watches I would be open to just hours and minutes, no sub sub seconds, in cal 99.0 (least expensive current movement), with Breguet hands and either applied indices or maybe a nice central guilloche pattern. Also open to other suitable, sourced movements if aiming between 38-40mm.


I like this... a blue-grey guilloche dial would be stunning with some copper/brass indices ( I know I have this embedded in my head this grey/blue with brass/copper thing)


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## DanielW

Rubar said:


> Some ideas for discussion:
> 1. Pilot watch (type A or B ) based on Center Second mov., charcoal dial,numerals coated with SuperLumiNova, blued hands ( in accordance with the type) with SuperLumiNova, grained yellow gold plated 3/4 plate.
> 2. Pilot watch with second's sub dial on "9" based on Cal.99.2 without PR indicator, charcoal dial,numerals coated with SuperLumiNova, blued hands with SuperLumiNova, grained yellow gold plated 3/4 plate.
> 3. Marine type based on Cal.99.0 or 99.1 with blued "Alpha" type hour and minute hands with SuperLumiNova, gray dial with dark blue printed scales and numerals, grained yellow gold plated 3/4 plate.
> 
> The price should be between 3000-3500 euro.
> 
> What do you think?


Are these possibilities that Dirk offered to your or are this suggestions from your side? I would pick number 3 seeing I allready have a pilots watch with that kind of config (except for the gold grained plate).


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## Rubar

DanielW said:


> Are these possibilities that Dirk offered to your or are this suggestions from your side? I would pick number 3 seeing I allready have a pilots watch with that kind of config (except for the gold grained plate).


It's my suggestions.

Any news about project?


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## nebulight

I would think a 99.1 with an engraved dial would be nice as I don't think that's a standard option with the 99.1.


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## Lencoth

For the moment I'm only following the project, meaning that my possible participation, is totally dependent on the outcome (and availability, of course). So just for what it's worth, a Flieger, in any guise, would not appeal to me one bit.


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## ahkeelt

I agree with you hotnerd (always brings a smile when I see that name...) - a mockup will be very helpful to gain some traction or should I say..... ticking.

I am kind of still stuck on blue/grey sunburst dial with copper-something....numerals or hands - some heat bluing or purple - copper also takes on some amazing heat colors....


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## Bhanu Chopra

Update - Since last couple of weeks there were few holidays in DE, I heard back from Dirk yesterday. He stated that using a vintage movement or another movement will essentially take away from spirit of a "Dornbluth" watch. As for developing a complication like big date, it is possible but it will push the project to 2017 timeframe and the cost will be more than 3k.

I requested Dirk to suggest some unique ideas for project watch besides minor changes to the dial, hands, case, engraving, etc.

So please standby for this response and in the meanwhile we are also coming up with good ideas with complete dial modification, hands, and case.


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## drhr

Ok, sounds like it'll be a 42 mm watch, no matter the dial details. While it will no doubt be nice (for the price), looks like my wrist won't work, sigh . . . .


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## geoffbot

drhr said:


> Ok, sounds like it'll be a 42 mm watch, no matter the dial details. While it will no doubt be nice (for the price), looks like my wrist won't work, sigh . . . .


Me either if it's all dial


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## drhr

geoffbot said:


> Me either if it's all dial


I could possibly handle the typical Dornblueth dial at 42mm, it's the thickness on top of that that really messes it up for me. A bit slimmer at the waist and it could work on my wrist (I've had other 42's that are ok, though not optimum) . . .


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## Der Amf

drhr said:


> Ok, sounds like it'll be a 42 mm watch, no matter the dial details. While it will no doubt be nice (for the price), looks like my wrist won't work, sigh . . . .


If only you had a stunningly beautiful sub-40mm German handwind to console yourself with :-(


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## drhr

Der Amf said:


> If only you had a stunningly beautiful sub-40mm German handwind to console yourself with :-(


Touche' sir!! :-! . . .


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## Rubar

hotnerd said:


> Update - Since last couple of weeks there were few holidays in DE, I heard back from Dirk yesterday. He stated that using a vintage movement or another movement will essentially take away from spirit of a "Dornbluth" watch. As for developing a complication like big date, it is possible but it will push the project to 2017 timeframe and the cost will be more than 3k.
> 
> I requested Dirk to suggest some unique ideas for project watch besides minor changes to the dial, hands, case, engraving, etc.
> 
> So please standby for this response and in the meanwhile we are also coming up with good ideas with complete dial modification, hands, and case.


Thanks for the update. How much will be cost for big date watch?


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## Rubar

Fater's watch on GUB 60.1 from1999. Please notice Alpha hands wth SuperLumiNova


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## IGotId

Rubar said:


> Thanks for the update. How much will be cost for big date watch?


Would this have to be done on a larger scale?


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## Bhanu Chopra

Update: Dirk has replied to me on the special modifications. He reiterated that special complication will have to be developed and the price will increase. However, if we design our WUS forum dial just as the Russian forum members have done, then he will provide us special pricing based upon 50 editions.

Again, a challenge to Rubar and others - are there any designs you can share on this thread which majority of us like so we can ask Dirk on pricing, etc.

The previous concerns have been how this any special than what I can already order directly from Dirk. My response is that collective creativeness can design a better and unique dial. Again, case in point is Russian forum project watch. It is very unique to be considered very different than what Dornbluth watches you view on forum and on their website. We do not have to develop a complication for it to be unique. And yes, pricing will be better since we will request 50 editions.

Cheers,
Bhanu


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## HilltopMichael

While I personally would prefer something larger than 42 mm, it's pretty clear that a majority would prefer 42 mm or even smaller.

My suggestion is to use the 99.0 movement in the current 42 mm case, but move the railroad tracks outwards as far as possible. This would allow the sub seconds dial be be enlarged as well. The "Made in Germany" can be engraved on the back. The center of the dial has the solar guilloché from the Jasmin, but the entire dial color is the silky matte finished white from the 99.0 (doesn't have the burnished areas like on the Jasmin) Slightly longer blued hands with applied black numbers, except for the 12 which is blued like the hands. Black alligator leather strap with blue stitching. I'd also like the rhodium plated movement with sunburst gears.

My photoshop skills aren't the greatest. I started with a couple of images from D.Dornblüth & Sohn's web site to create the following. It's close, although the numbers are painted on, not the applied. Couldn't find a good image of the applied numbers to use...


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## Rubar

Nice option. A small remark,. your option is more similar to the model 99.1 (for 99.0 second's dial must be smaller). What do you think if the hands and 12 will be violet (purple)?


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## HilltopMichael

Rubar said:


> Nice option. A small remark,. your option is more similar to the model 99.1 (for 99.0 second's dial must be smaller). What do you think if the hands and 12 will be violet (purple)?


While I did the enlarging via photoshop, I think the seconds sub dial size on my version would be almost identical the size of the seconds sub dial on the 99.1 - both seem to be just over 12 mm to the outsides of the railroad tracks. I was able to enlarge the sub seconds dial with the 99.0 movement because the minute railroad track was pushed out a bit. If the case and dial could be enlarged, the sub seconds could be even larger.

A violet or purple would also be a nice color, but it should have similar characteristics as the blued hands. Indoors or in lower light conditions, the hands should look almost black. When viewed in bright light or outdoors on a sunny day, the hands look bright purple. I have one other watch with similar blued hands and it's a wonderful look. The white dial that I saw on a 99.0 and 99.1 sparkles wonderfully in bright sunlight, and the bright blue hands go well. Indoors the dial looked off-white with almost black hands, still a nice look.

My goal with this was to suggest something that was unique, yet still be recognizable as a D.Dornblüth & Sohn and not require expensive modifications. I would have preferred a larger watch, but that would have required a non-standard case. By moving the minute railroad track and numbers towards the extreme edge of the dial, it should make the watch seem larger than the normal 42 mm watches. I believe that the 99.0 movement is the least expensive movement, yet the seconds sub dial will be a similar size to that on the 99.1. Basically, this is a standard 99.0 with a custom dial utilizing techniques from a couple of other watches. The only item that would probably be new would be the hands, perhaps only the minute hand. The tip of the minute hand should extend at least to the middle of the minute marks.


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## omeglycine

You'd need to use the 99.1. Please refer to the orientation of where the second hand is attached on the two dials of the 99.0 and 99.1. Simply enlarging the sub seconds dial will not work, the location at which the second hand is attached to the pinion of the fourth wheel determines the layout of the two models.


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## HilltopMichael

omeglycine said:


> You'd need to use the 99.1. Please refer to the orientation of where the second hand is attached on the two dials of the 99.0 and 99.1. Simply enlarging the sub seconds dial will not work, the location at which the second hand is attached to the pinion of the fourth wheel determines the layout of the two models.


The dial that I proposed fits the 99.0 movement, not the 99.1. Below is my design next to the image of the 99.0 that I used. Note that where the hands attach are in identical locations on both watches. The case sizes are also identical.


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## omeglycine

Thank you for the visual, I see now!


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## Rubar

Will all numerals applied? 

"A violet or purple would also be a nice color, but it should have similar characteristics as the blued hands."

I mean the color similar to hands color from Moritz Grossmann watches (flamed).


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## HilltopMichael

Rubar said:


> Will all numerals applied?
> 
> "A violet or purple would also be a nice color, but it should have similar characteristics as the blued hands."
> 
> I mean the color similar to hands color from Moritz Grossmann watches (flamed).


My thoughts were to have all of the numerals applied. All would be black, except for the "12" which would be the same color as the hands.

The flamed hands on the Moritz Grossmann watches look very nice - I've never seen such hands before. Their web site states the hands are annealed to a brown-violet or brown hue, yet on my monitor it looks like a deep purple color. I'd be happy with that color as well. Basically, any color that would look very dark, almost black, in low light conditions and then show much brighter in bright lighting conditions I think would look good.


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## Rubar

Could I ask you to make the layout with violet hands and "12" and polished basel?


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## HilltopMichael

Rubar said:


> Could I ask you to make the layout with violet hands and "12" and polished basel?


Something like this?


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## Rubar

Thanks! Only bezel same polished as lugs.


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## DanielW

That is a great design you came up with, the purple is something different though I like the blie more.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met behulp van Tapatalk


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## HilltopMichael

Rubar said:


> Thanks! Only bezel same polished as lugs.


Unfortunately I don't have the Photoshop skills to do something like that. I started with an image from their web site and the case and bezel is unaltered from what was there.


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## meloie

HilltopMichael said:


> Something like this?
> 
> View attachment 1529855


Not my taste but certainly very bold!

Kudos to you!!


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## waldoh

What about a German version of the IWC 5102?

Applied numerals/markers, no date, power reserve on the back (or the front if too expensive). Perhaps all the applied numerals/hands could be blue instead of silver.


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## DanielW

Hi ppl just a bit of a kick to keep this running ( or not ofc). The idea of a german version of the IWC isnt appealing to me. How about the dial of the purple version but with blue markers and blued alpha hands?


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## Bwana1

After being very excited about the project, I've walked away quite a while ago. Good luck to all, I'll spend my cash on a real DDS.


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## StufflerMike

A non limited DDS will do it for me.


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## Feller87

Yep when a bunch of watch nerds get together there is no way they will agree on the design of a watch  

this also provides some insight on why big brands make such boring uninspired watches sometimes, because they have to get all their own people to agree on things.

My 2 cents- pick one DDS design and stick with it (my choice would be the regulator) and simply customize the engravings on the movement/caseback to make it a special WUS LE


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## Bwana1

Feller… I certainly agree.

I tried to make the point in the first couple pages, but fell upon deaf ears. If you want a dial with turquoise raised numbers & burnt orange hands...knock yourself out.

DDS has made its reputation on quality traditional classic, time pieces with style. There is a difference between "custom & unique" and "unrefined & gaudy". To leave the stylish traditions of DDS, would only downgrade the watch and name.

I had originally said that a deposit should be paid, by all who could vote on design...otherwise a free Photoshop school of blasphemy takes place, taking serious enthusiasts out of the project...along with their money.

Time will tell, how many are really willing to buck up 4-5k for a "cute" watch...most of the real WIS's left.


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## Der Amf

I think the realisation that nothing original was possible in terms of movements took the wind out of a lot of peoples sails?


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## Feller87

Maybe now that we have fleshed out all the possibilities and came up with this as the only possible solution we can revive the project

although if I were Dirk I would probably have washed my hands of this months ago



Bwana1 said:


> Feller&#8230; I certainly agree.
> 
> I tried to make the point in the first couple pages, but fell upon deaf ears. If you want a dial with turquoise raised numbers & burnt orange hands...knock yourself out.
> 
> DDS has made its reputation on quality traditional classic, time pieces with style. There is a difference between "custom & unique" and "unrefined & gaudy". To leave the stylish traditions of DDS, would only downgrade the watch and name.
> 
> I had originally said that a deposit should be paid, by all who could vote on design...otherwise a free Photoshop school of blasphemy takes place, taking serious enthusiasts out of the project...along with their money.
> 
> Time will tell, how many are really willing to buck up 4-5k for a "cute" watch...most of the real WIS's left.


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## omeglycine

Feller87 said:


> Yep when a bunch of watch nerds get together there is no way they will agree on the design of a watch


I definitely think there's some truth in that statement. Unrealistic expectations at the pre-established budget didn't help either, nor the summer of 2016 delivery (though there's already a 1 yr waiting list, so it probably should have been anticipated).

At 3,000€, even on a bulk order where there could theoretically be some discount (though again, Dirk certainly isn't hurting for business), a standard 99.x configuration with dial, case and hand customization was about all that could be expected. Maybe a single complication at most. Again, I would have liked to see a 99.0 with a big date or moonphase replacing the sub seconds, or even just hours and mins w/o sub seconds and baton or dagger polished markers, but considering a 99.0 is already 2,800€ with a printed dial, any complications and customization would have seen Dirk offering a considerable discount at 3,000€. A Center Seconds is 3,300€ I believe, and again, offering that for 3,000€ plus customizations is quite the offer in my book.

If we want more as a group, the budget must increase. I have no doubts that whatever is produced and signed-off on by Dirk will be worth the asking price and more.


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## estrickland

Just saw/read the thread. I'm interested in the project.

I'd vote for pushing DDS for the big date complication, waiting for 2017, and making the forum project watch the debut model with it.

40mm. Medium flat gray dial, with sunburst white sub seconds / white date background / black date text.

Logo in silver at 9 o'clock like the Regulator, forum project designation at 3 o'clock.

Push railway track out as far as possible to maximise sub-seconds.

Looking around, looks like G.Gerlach already doing something similar:








Maybe do something interesting with movement finish like this Tourby DDS worked on:









Guessing I'm not talking about a $3000Euro watch, but it's what I'd like to see anyway.


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