# July 2020 - Updated zaratsu polishing cost



## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

I have a Snowflake that has been my daily wear for almost a year now, and has picked up a decent amount of light scratches. Yesterday, while changing from a strap back to the OEM bracelet, it fell on my (carpeted) floor. I picked it up, and the high polish glean of the bezel was gone; apparently my carpet was abrasive enough to remove the famous zaratsu mirror polish on a 5mm segment of bezel. Notably, there's no actual scratches (my nail doesn't catch on anything); it just looks permanently smudged in that one area.

I inquired today by calling the Seiko Service Center in NJ about the cost of having the watch sent back to Japan for a zaratsu polish. I first talked with a woman named Barbara who was incredibly gruff and had no idea what 'zaratsu polishing' was. She said based on my model code that the system said a polish cost '$500-$1000' and could be done in house at their center in NJ. I insisted I wanted it send to Japan for the polish and ended the conversation.

I called in again and this time spoke to Nancy, who was much more knowledgeable and kind. She said there was a $150 flat shipping cost for having the watch sent to Japan, at which case they would provide an estimate on how much a zaratsu polish cost, but she could not provide the cost of the polish to me over the phone.

I had also emailed my local GS boutique, who just got back to me -- they confirmed there's a $150 shipping charge, but that's on top of the current cost of a zaratsu polish on any GS: a mind-boggling *$962.50 for both bracelet and watch head*, or $793.75 for the watch head alone.

I am a bit peeved that the official service center in NJ was not able to provide me this info. I am also flabbergasted...I know that zaratsu polishing is special and all, but the fact that a polish costs 20% the amount of a brand new watch seems ridiculously high.

I've decided I will live with my scratches and smudges for another year or two, when a full zaratsu polish will be more warranted.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

I recently sent a watch back to GS Japan for polish. The cost was about 37000 yen if I remember correctly, but that was sent from an address in Japan. If you have someone in Japan you can forward the watch to, will work out a lot cheaper it seems. A full service is something like 55,000 yen which is still a drop in the ocean to what you were quoted.


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## KazeKei (Jan 11, 2012)

That’s the one thing I dislike about Seiko/GS, they do not have a service centre dedicated to GS watches, and u can get people who handle seiko 5 watches, handling your GS. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

KazeKei said:


> That's the one thing I dislike about Seiko/GS, they do not have a service centre dedicated to GS watches, and u can get people who handle seiko 5 watches, handling your GS.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree and it really lacks in experience compared with the Rolex Service Center or Chopard Service Center in the US I've dealt with before.

I will say the Grand Seiko boutique was incredibly responsive, and said if I preferred I could ship the watch to the boutique and they would handle all tracking/mailing/etc, so I had a dedicated person I could talk with rather than a 1-800 number. I will probably end up going that route if/when I decide to bite the bullet and drop $1k on polishing.


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## Alysandir (Jun 29, 2016)

todoroki said:


> I recently sent a watch back to GS Japan for polish. The cost was about 37000 yen if I remember correctly, but that was sent from an address in Japan. If you have someone in Japan you can forward the watch to, will work out a lot cheaper it seems. A full service is something like 55,000 yen which is still a drop in the ocean to what you were quoted.


One consideration in price may be the material; the Snowflake is titanium, which is not as easy to polish as steel.

Regards,
Alysandir


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## egwatchfan (Dec 9, 2015)

Yikes....


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

How bad can a carpet burn be? Post pictures. 

Maybe get a quote from that Lapinist guy on Instagram?


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

Zaratsu may be a special technique, but the result isn’t significantly better than any other luxury watch manufacturers. It is also not as delicate as people make it out to be. The finish does not ‘dull’ from falling on carpet. Something is missing in the story. 

I agree that price sounds very high, but it is likely because of the zaratsu technique used, as well as the titanium material as previously mentioned.


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## Russ1965 (Apr 12, 2014)

There's a guy on Instagram that specialises in Zaratsu polishing, based in Poland.

Unfortunately, I don't recall the details, but pictures of his 'work' were phenomenal.

Good luck searching for him..................


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## klackakon (Mar 12, 2020)

It sounds like you won't do this, but I would caution you against using the NJ seiko center for anything. I sent an alpinist in one time and it came back definitively worse than when it left. 

Not surprised the polishing is expensively honestly, the technique is pretty niche and you are paying for a master's work.


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## Zhanming057 (Jun 17, 2019)

That's pretty crazy. $1,000 to me is a new case, strap and crystal and that's for watches that cost significantly more than the Snowflake. 

Using a 1:1:1 rule of thumb the actual material and labor costs of a SBGA211 should be around the $2,000 mark (with another $2,000 in R&D, after sale service, marketing and distribution). $350 for the polishing sounds a lot more reasonable as a fraction of the total cost of the product. Have you tried contacting Grand Seiko Japan directly?


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## x2046 (Jul 21, 2020)

Would you consider sending it in to a reliable watchmaker for polishing? I don't think that it justifies the time and the cost to polish it in Japan


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## Mbappe (May 13, 2020)

Do you have a pic of the scratch op?


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

For those who asked, here's a pic. I swear to god it's from my damn carpet.


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## dr-who (Aug 2, 2019)

Perhaps try a cape cod cloth? Nothing to lose at this point.


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## Incident (Jan 27, 2014)

Wow. So carpet can do this to titanium?

Perhaps I am completely misinformed about the benefits of titanium, but I am very surprised that this would happen from carpet. 

I would think more common daily activity would render the watch in far worse shape...think of putting your hands into a deep pant pocket or coat pocket to retrieve loose change. Sliding your hard/arm through a jacket or coat...and countless other benign daily bumps and bruises a watch takes.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

dr-who said:


> Perhaps try a cape cod cloth? Nothing to lose at this point.


Ummmhhhh, no.


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

You're not supposed to use cape cod cloth on titanium -- I've used it on Rolexs and Speedys before with good results, but given the nature of the polishing on the GS (and the fact it's titanium) I'm just going to live with it until I can get it polished (I don't even mind the smudging/light scratches on the lug, but the bezel is what kills me).

On titanium: it scratches easier than steel because it forms an oxide layer, even though its harder than steel.


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

That looks a bit nasty for a carpet burn are you sure that it wasn’t done some other time and the poor old rug is copping the blame? Either way - ouch!


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

sticky said:


> That looks a bit nasty for a carpet burn are you sure that it wasn't done some other time and the poor old rug is copping the blame? Either way - ouch!


Quite sure, sadly. If I was to make myself an idiot on a public forum, I'd hopefully come up with a better excuse than 'it fell on the rug' if I were lying


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

WIth the price they quoted you, I am going to put bubble wrap around my wrist every time I wear my GS's from now on. 

Yikes!

Good luck. Hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction and without killing off your checkbook.....


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## sticky (Apr 5, 2013)

whats_shakin said:


> Quite sure, sadly. If I was to make myself an idiot on a public forum, I'd hopefully come up with a better excuse than 'it fell on the rug' if I were lying


An idiot? Not in my book - I'm sure that most of us have dropped a watch at some time in their careers.


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## Mr.Jones82 (Jul 15, 2018)

A fall at the right angle, on coarse carpet...yeah, I’m not that surprised. Pretty much every watch I’ve owned with a polished bezel is covered in scratches, most of which come from something as innocuous as my sleeve. All polish is fragile whether it has a fancy name attached to it or not. I’d just live with it OP, it isn’t too bad.

Edit: I guess I didn’t notice the lug. Polish doesn’t surprise me, but a brushed lug is a bit shocking.


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

Well, I definitely will be downsizing my collection (_stares at post count until I hit 100_) to help make sure the watches I have get the TLC they need.

I do find this entire ordeal...weirdly amusing, as I make sure to keep the watches in a watchbox when they're not being worn. I was a few whisky deep when I decided to change straps, which is another life lesson I apparently needed.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

I don’t think you have any motive to lie about this, but that scrape looks pretty severe for a carpet burn, or did you forget to mention that the carpet was on the first floor and you were changing the strap while leaning over a second floor railing? ;-) Even then...

You say you were at least a little inebriated... possible that your watch, when face down during the strap change, was grinding into something coarse? Something on your table, or a wedding ring?


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

whats_shakin said:


> For those who asked, here's a pic. I swear to god it's from my damn carpet.
> View attachment 15357432


No. Unless you have sandpaper carpet. You're looking like a troll now.


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

whats_shakin said:


> Well, I definitely will be downsizing my collection (_stares at post count until I hit 100_) to help make sure the watches I have get the TLC they need.
> 
> I do find this entire ordeal...weirdly amusing, as I make sure to keep the watches in a watchbox when they're not being worn. I was a few whisky deep when I decided to change straps, which is another life lesson I apparently needed.


A few whiskey deep...

Ok. No further explanation necessary.


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

Jostack said:


> A few whiskey deep...
> 
> Ok. No further explanation necessary.




Not trolling, but I wasn't that drunk, only a couple fingers of whisky deep. I was working on it, crystal-down, on my Esslinger padded workmat, and my dumb*** slipped as I was attempting to get the springbar to click into place, and it fell from the workmat onto the carpeted floor (~3 foot drop). I'd assume the Esslinger workmat is softer than this old shag carpet, but regardless...not trolling, just an expensive lesson.

The point of the post wasn't my whisky-induced idiocy but more of 'holy hell is zaratsu polishing expensive', esp since the last post from GS in this sub-forum indicates a full zaratsu polish was around the ~$600 mark (back in 2017).


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

whats_shakin said:


> Not trolling, but I wasn't that drunk. I was working on it, crystal-down, on my Esslinger workmat, and my dumb*** slipped as I was attempting to get the springbar to click into place, and it fell from the workmat onto the floor. I'd assume the Esslinger workmat is softer than this old shag carpet, but regardless...not trolling, just an expensive lesson.


Either way, it sucks. I apologize if I sound incredulous, but it IS the internet, and I don't know any of you.

You should get rid of that carpet. The brushes on that watch are what I might ascribe to scotchbrite or similar being used to clean up brushed links on a band.


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## EHV (Mar 30, 2010)

I have seen his pics and they look amazing!!!
Search for Lapinist_watchrestoration

He seems to specialize in GS "Zaratsu" polishing. No clue what he charges or turnaround time.



Russ1965 said:


> There's a guy on Instagram that specialises in Zaratsu polishing, based in Poland.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't recall the details, but pictures of his 'work' were phenomenal.
> 
> Good luck searching for him..................


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## matthew P (Aug 1, 2013)

I can just imagine the mess a cape cod would make of that brushed lug..... that would indeed be a travesty.

from what I've read the full polish is expensive and very time consuming, but definitely something you want sent back to Japan for if you are looking to return a Ti watch back to "like new" condition.

Ive heard the same about dealing with GS service in New Jersey, it can be a real mixed bag with some horror stories establishing a pretty low bar.
I recently dropped off my GS diver for a moment service and crown tube replacement. Im much happier dealing with my AD rather than the Seiko service folks directly.
Id recommend that if / when you decide on the full service based on my positive experience


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## Alysandir (Jun 29, 2016)

Incident said:


> Perhaps I am completely misinformed about the benefits of titanium, but I am very surprised that this would happen from carpet.


The thing about most titanium is that it scratches pretty easily, but then the scratch oxidizes and the scratch becomes less noticeable. This has led some folks to regard titanium as "self-healing" although that's not what's really going on. The reason I say "most titanium" is because most watches made from titanium are left with a satin finish that closely matches the oxidization. Or, TLDR: it scratches easier but hides scratches better over time. There's even an eraser trick you can use to help rub out scratches on certain grades of titanium.

Polished titanium is another matter entirely, it would seem. This would explain why some companies - Citizen comes immediately to mind with Duratect for their "Super Titanium" - use a DLC-like surface treatment on titanium in order to give it a shine and to protect it from minor scratches.

Regards,
Alysandir


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## MissileExpert (Mar 18, 2018)

Maybe the scratches came from your work mat and not your carpet? Or maybe your springbar or strap made the scratches when you lost control of the watch somewhere between the mat and the carpet? Or maybe you stepped on it before you picked it up from the carpet? Count me in the crowd of "not sure this was the carpet's fault."


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## Ginseng108 (May 10, 2017)

MissileExpert said:


> Count me in the crowd of "not sure this was the carpet's fault."


Same. The hardness of nylon or polyester used in carpets cannot even be measured on the same scale as steel or titanium alloys. It's simply not possible that a drop from 3' onto carpet could scratch it like that...unless the carpet were very dirty and loaded up with sand, which would be silica most likely. That could do the scratching. But clean carpet. Impossible.


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

The weirdest part is it isn't scratched, to any degree where a nail would catch it. It's just the finish that is smudged; no, I don't really know where it happened, but it came out of its winder, onto my workmat, then onto the floor. Whether it is my evil carpet, my poor workmat, or the bracelet that somehow caused the smudging/scratching I don't know. It isn't really an indictment of the watch, I love it and won't ever get rid of it. Just disappointment and surprise at the exorbitant cost of repair.


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## cody.rioux (Apr 8, 2020)

Mr.Jones82 said:


> A fall at the right angle, on coarse carpet...yeah, I'm not that surprised. Pretty much every watch I've owned with a polished bezel is covered in scratches, most of which come from something as innocuous as my sleeve. All polish is fragile whether it has a fancy name attached to it or not. I'd just live with it OP, it isn't too bad.
> 
> Edit: I guess I didn't notice the lug. Polish doesn't surprise me, but a brushed lug is a bit shocking.


There are some words of wisdom to keep in mind in this post. Any polished watch, titanium/Zaratsu or otherwise, will eventually be all scratched up. There's probably more value in learning to be okay with a little wabi-sabi rather than worrying about it. Think of it this way: If you pay $1000 for that polish you run the risk of having another "first" big scratch on the watch, rinse and repeat.


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## MissileExpert (Mar 18, 2018)

whats_shakin said:


> ...Whether it is my evil carpet, my poor workmat, *or the bracelet* that somehow caused the smudging/scratching I don't know...


You might have something there. If the bracelet was still attached, it could have twisted around and come between the watch and the rug, causing the scratches.


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## kaj2003 (Sep 25, 2015)

Good to know these price quotes. Always wondered what it would be to get a vintage GS and restore it...


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## TellingTime (Aug 22, 2014)

I bang my titanium SBGA 231 all the time on things and it doesn't scratch easy at all. That doesn't mean I don't have scratches after a year and half of consistent wear. But it holds up better than my SS Omegas. Which arm hair can scratch. Took me forever to realize where the micro swirls come from on the polished bezels.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

I think it adds to the character of your specific watch. Certainly not enough to warrant a polish, nevermind at that price, personally. However, I'm in the never polish camp, so take it for what it's worth.


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

whats_shakin said:


> For those who asked, here's a pic. I swear to god it's from my damn carpet.
> View attachment 15357432












I hope this makes you feel a little better about having scratches.

This is about 16 months of wear.

I quit worrying about scratches about 14 months ago. Obviously I wear this as my "beater".

I owned an sbga031 Ti diver and I did get a couple scratches on it. I did not find it any more susceptible to scratches than the SS Rolex.

With the GS pricing for polishing, when the time comes for service/polish, I would also consider trading or selling for something else rather than the service/polish. Depends on how I've jelled with the watch.


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## TellingTime (Aug 22, 2014)

Jostack said:


> I hope this makes you feel a little better about having scratches.
> 
> This is about 16 months of wear.
> 
> ...


You're an animal.


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## kritameth (Oct 11, 2015)

Jostack said:


> I hope this makes you feel a little better about having scratches.
> 
> This is about 16 months of wear.
> 
> ...


OHHH YEAHHHHH!


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## mattmartin (Aug 8, 2008)

Did you try to wash the watch to see if the smudges are actually the plastic resin from the Esslinger mat having rubbed and transferred onto the watch? If you were pressing the watch into the mat, you might have smudged the resin onto your watch, rather than scratched it. Use warm water and mild soap and a clean toothbrush.


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## Josh R. (Dec 30, 2012)

Don't fret . . . this hobby is meant to be enjoyed. Scratches and blemishes happen, especially to polished finishes on bezels. 

I've been at this hobby for 20 years, and have seen my fair share of scratches, both personally and through posts similar to this one. While scratches can be bothersome: (1) it gives you the excuse to get multiple watches to cover different occasions and purposes; and (2) there are ways to minimize them, such as by getting something with higher scratch resistance (think of Damasko, tegimented models by Sinn, Citizen Super Titanium, or the tungsten bezel on the Omega Globemaster). Along those lines, Citizen really owns the metallurgical use of titanium, especially with their "Duratect A" models (i.e., Chronomaster Washi paper dial models) whose scratch resistance is 2000+ Vickers and whose weight is less than 90 grams.


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## bluntinstrument (Jul 23, 2020)

I think I've heard that a US GS sent back to Japan requires a service with polishing. This makes the number much closer to todoroki yen to dollar total with shipping included (37000 + 55000 = 92000 JPY = $858.40 USD + $150 = $1008.40 total ) VS quoted $962.50



todoroki said:


> I recently sent a watch back to GS Japan for polish. The cost was about 37000 yen if I remember correctly, but that was sent from an address in Japan. If you have someone in Japan you can forward the watch to, will work out a lot cheaper it seems. A full service is something like 55,000 yen which is still a drop in the ocean to what you were quoted.


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## Cowboy Bebop (Jan 9, 2011)

whats_shakin said:


> For those who asked, here's a pic. I swear to god it's from my damn carpet.
> View attachment 15357432


Your carpet made out of aluminum bristles?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

Cowboy Bebop said:


> Your carpet made out of aluminum bristles?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Yes, how about a picture of your carpet, OP? Does it hurt to walk on it with bare feet?


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

Har har har, glad everyone is enjoying my mistakes. I've fully accepted I probably scuffed it elsewhere at this point and only noticed it when it fell on the carpet, or when the bracelet (which was only attached on one end) fell with it. Regardless, lapinist currently has a 13 (!) month waitlist, and I've accepted I'm just gonna live with it and get it buffed out in a year or two when it goes back to service.


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

Zinzan said:


> Yes, how about a picture of your carpet, OP? Does it hurt to walk on it with bare feet?


Yes, it was actually the inspiration for a Netflix tv show.


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## Blue Note (Oct 15, 2016)

You didn’t scratch it, you scuffed the titanium oxide layer that gradually formed after the watch was made and exposed to oxygen. Titanium naturally forms a Ti oxide layer on the surface, which can scratch more easily then the case itself. The “healing” another poster refers to above is the reformation of the oxide layer when the base Ti layer is again exposed to O2. I have a Chopard Ti watch I scuffed and I chose to wait it out. After a few months the scuff was hardly apparent at all. BTW it’s the Ti oxide which acts as a protective layer and make it more rust resistant.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

@OP a much cheaper alternative is to send it to this guy.
I have no idea whether he can handle titanium as wel.








Meet the One-Man Shop Restoring Vintage Seiko Cases, One Zaratsu Polish at a Time - Worn & Wound


Kamil Dunkowski, an expert watch refinisher and restorer based in Poland, is obsessed with zaratsu polishing. “For me, zaratsu is all about reflection of the light,” he told me. “I believe zaratsu polishing is the identity of Grand Seiko.” I stumbled onto Dunkowski’s work by accident. He has a...




wornandwound.com


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## waltermitty (Jun 14, 2017)

did the other person on the carpet receive a rug burn, too? c'mon now, full disclosure


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

T1meout said:


> @OP a much cheaper alternative is to send it to this guy.
> I have no idea whether he can handle titanium as wel.
> 
> 
> ...


I already reached out to Kamil, he has a 13 month backlog right now (although he is still accepting new work). Just gonna wait to send it to GS for when it needs service.


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## watch55collector (Apr 17, 2020)

I have given in my Grand Seiko watch in for full servicing, including a zaratsu polish. 

Couldn't stand seeing the scratches on the watch, which ironically stand out even more due to the shine the watch gives out. I suspect you don't like looking at yours either, hence why the post. 

My GS boutique said they could do the service locally, but for the polish to take place it would be going back to Japan and would take about 6 weeks. Cost for the polish alone is about 600 bucks USD.


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## kyle1234c (Mar 30, 2017)

This is literally the reason I ditched Grand Seiko. Stunning watches but my Glashutte Original costs a fair bit less than half the cost of a polish for a full service including polish. Could they not train a zaratsu guy for the US, one for Europe etc?


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

kyle1234c said:


> This is literally the reason I ditched Grand Seiko. Stunning watches but my Glashutte Original costs a fair bit less than half the cost of a polish for a full service including polish. Could they not train a zaratsu guy for the US, one for Europe etc?


I thought they did train for polishing in the US, but some people insist on sending their watch to Japan.

Ditching GS over that seems extreme. How many times do you plan to polish your watch, anyways?


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## whats_shakin (Apr 26, 2020)

Zinzan said:


> I thought they did train for polishing in the US, but some people insist on sending their watch to Japan.
> 
> Ditching GS over that seems extreme. How many times do you plan to polish your watch, anyways?


They have polishers at the Seiko service center in NJ, but the only GS-employed Zaratsu polishers are in Japan, so if you want it polished to like-new it has to be shipped to Japan, sadly.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

whats_shakin said:


> I have a Snowflake that has been my daily wear for almost a year now, and has picked up a decent amount of light scratches. Yesterday, while changing from a strap back to the OEM bracelet, it fell on my (carpeted) floor. I picked it up, and the high polish glean of the bezel was gone; apparently my carpet was abrasive enough to remove the famous zaratsu mirror polish on a 5mm segment of bezel. Notably, there's no actual scratches (my nail doesn't catch on anything); it just looks permanently smudged in that one area.
> 
> I inquired today by calling the Seiko Service Center in NJ about the cost of having the watch sent back to Japan for a zaratsu polish. I first talked with a woman named Barbara who was incredibly gruff and had no idea what 'zaratsu polishing' was. She said based on my model code that the system said a polish cost '$500-$1000' and could be done in house at their center in NJ. I insisted I wanted it send to Japan for the polish and ended the conversation.
> 
> ...


do they laser weld and then zaratsu polish?

because if just polishing, it will not come out the same.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

Pongster said:


> do they laser weld and then zaratsu polish?
> 
> because if just polishing, it will not come out the same.


Nothing is ever exactly the same.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

Zinzan said:


> Nothing is ever exactly the same.


in the philosophical sense, true. A river once crossed is never the same river again.

plain polishing actual removes metal.

the laserweld that experts do like michael from HK, is superb. Looks almost exactly (if not actually exactly) as the original.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

Pongster said:


> in the philosophical sense, true. A river once crossed is never the same river again.
> 
> plain polishing actual removes metal.
> 
> the laserweld that experts do like michael from HK, is superb. Looks almost exactly (if not actually exactly) as the original.


Would you prefer GS Japan refinish your Zaratsu, or Michael of HK?


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

Zinzan said:


> Would you prefer GS Japan refinish your Zaratsu, or Michael of HK?


neither. If GS wont laser weld, i would rather keep my watch as is.

micahel is a rolex expert. Not sure if he has the "_GEBR.SALLAZ" machines that GS uses for zaratsu.

In the same way that i didnt let RSC fix a dent on my rolex by polishing. I had michael do it.

If ever i would consider light polishing for any of my watches. But not the polishing to fix a dent/ding _


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## kyle1234c (Mar 30, 2017)

Zinzan said:


> I thought they did train for polishing in the US, but some people insist on sending their watch to Japan.
> 
> Ditching GS over that seems extreme. How many times do you plan to polish your watch, anyways?


I don't think it's extreme. Like I say, not bashing the watches at all, I have had several and think they are items of beauty. But knocks and the like happen and they are particularly noticeable on that beautiful zaratsu. I like to wear my watches and knowing that I can get my Glashutte Original (at least as nice) both serviced and with a case refurbishment for 420 euros against 1000 dollars for a polish only is really a dramatic factor in the buying process. I don't think most people consider servicing and polishing costs but if you plan on keeping a watch for life it is really important.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

kyle1234c said:


> I don't think it's extreme. Like I say, not bashing the watches at all, I have had several and think they are items of beauty. But knocks and the like happen and they are particularly noticeable on that beautiful zaratsu. I like to wear my watches and knowing that I can get my Glashutte Original (at least as nice) both serviced and with a case refurbishment for 420 euros against 1000 dollars for a polish only is really a dramatic factor in the buying process. I don't think most people consider servicing and polishing costs but if you plan on keeping a watch for life it is really important.


Well, servicing GS is not terribly expensive. And I don't plan to polish my SBGW253 more than maybe once, if ever.

And you don't have to Zaratsu polish-you can choose to get a your watch polished non-Zaratsu. Won't be quite as nice, but will be as nice as other non-Zaratsu polished watches.


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

Zinzan said:


> Well, servicing GS is not terribly expensive. And I don't plan to polish my SBGW253 more than maybe once, if ever.
> 
> And you don't have to Zaratsu polish-you can choose to get a your watch polished non-Zaratsu. Won't be quite as nice, but will be as nice as other non-Zaratsu polished watches.


Is there any reviews or comparisons on this?

Zaratsu is a polishing "Technique". It is not necessarily 'better' than other polishing method.

#marketing


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## nathantw666 (Aug 6, 2007)

Jostack said:


> Is there any reviews or comparisons on this?
> 
> Zaratsu is a polishing "Technique". It is not necessarily 'better' than other polishing method.
> 
> #marketing


 Your answer is in this thread: Understanding Grand Seiko - Part 3 - Case Manufacturing...

As for a pencil eraser suggestion for titanium, DON'T DO IT! My watch got worse. I'm sure Cape Cod will make it even more worse than the pencil eraser.


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## dr-who (Aug 2, 2019)

Pongster said:


> do they laser weld and then zaratsu polish?
> 
> because if just polishing, it will not come out the same.


I think this depends, from a practical perspective, on what you mean by 'the same'. I had a watch sent to Japan to be re-polished, and I cannot tell the difference. The case edges are as razor-sharp as the non-polished GSs I have. It's probably a fraction of a millimeter smaller, but for all practical purposes, you wouldn't know this case from brand new. They're good at this, at least in Japan.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

Jostack said:


> Is there any reviews or comparisons on this?
> 
> Zaratsu is a polishing "Technique". It is not necessarily 'better' than other polishing method.
> 
> #marketing


If you search this forum back a few years (maybe 2015-ish?), we had a forum sponsor (Topper) post a multipart comparison of sending a GS to New Jersey vs Japan for polishing, with before and after photos.

At least that was the intent. Unfortunately, I'm not sure they ever did the Japan leg, or maybe they just didn't ever report on the result? Just on my phone now and can't search effectively.


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

After some digging I found this comparison









Zaratsu Polishing - Timepieces Blog


A True Mirror Finish to Create a Beautiful Interplay of Light and Shadow. The name “zaratsu” originally started as a...




www.timepiecesblog.com





The other linked thread really only described zaratsu. It didn't show any comparisons. The comparison in the above link does indeed show a discernible difference in a very specific circumstance. I'm not sure I'm convinced it is worth the slight difference.

I'm not knocking zaratsu. I just think the benefit is overblown marketing hype. It's just not that much better for all the extra work and expertise required. I appreciate the detail for sure. I just question the overall value.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

Jostack said:


> After some digging I found this comparison
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a significant difference between regular and zaratsu polishing. I suggest getting an eye exam to people who claim otherwise. Try doing this with a regular finish.


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

T1meout said:


> There is a significant difference between regular and zaratsu polishing. I suggest getting an eye exam to people who claim otherwise. Try doing this with a regular finish.
> View attachment 15372505





T1meout said:


> There is a significant difference between regular and zaratsu polishing. I suggest getting an eye exam to people who claim otherwise. Try doing this with a regular finish.
> View attachment 15372505


Is that marketing material or an actual unaltered picture of a real person's zaratsu finish?

I ask, because I have not found any real comparisons, only marketing materials.

I know you can tell a difference, especially under controlled conditions. The question isn't IF there is a difference. The question is if it is WORTH it? I'm sure that is up to the individual. As in most things watches, it is going to be up to the individual.

I'm my opinion, if zaratsu polishing is so easily damaged, it is not fit for a watch to be worn daily.

I will investigate comparisons more thoroughly and report what I find.


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## John Price (Feb 21, 2011)

T1meout said:


> There is a significant difference between regular and zaratsu polishing. I suggest getting an eye exam to people who claim otherwise. Try doing this with a regular finish.
> View attachment 15372505


That's a fantastic photo! I've seen other, similar ones too.

And to add to that, there are varying degrees of Zaratsu polishing as well. 
It's a terminology used for the polishing technique (named after the German machines used).

Other companies (Citizen being one if I recall correctly) have claimed to do Zaratsu polishing too.

But like any sort of polishing, it also involves the skills and experience of those doing it. And those doing it at Grand Seiko are some of the finest out there.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

Jostack said:


> I'm my opinion, if zaratsu polishing is so easily damaged, it is not fit for a watch to be worn daily.


Who is saying it is easily damaged?


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

Zinzan said:


> Who is saying it is easily damaged?


Maybe you don't read GS threads here much.

There are probably thousands of posts in threads here that describe how a shirt sleeve or something else equally slight. I've read through plenty over the last couple years discussing this. Including this very thread.


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## aalin13 (Apr 2, 2010)

Jostack said:


> Maybe you don't read GS threads here much.
> 
> There are probably thousands of posts in threads here that describe how a shirt sleeve or something else equally slight. I've read through plenty over the last couple years discussing this. Including this very thread.


In my experience, it's not any more easily damaged than regular polish. Any polish will eventually be damaged.

As to whether it is worth it, that's up to the individual. Personally I think it is, the extra level of hand finishing is for me the reason to get an expensive watch.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

Jostack said:


> Maybe you don't read GS threads here much.
> 
> There are probably thousands of posts in threads here that describe how a shirt sleeve or something else equally slight.


Oh, well, I did hear a story once about an unsightly scrubbing caused by a short fall on carpet. ;-)

Thousands? Exaggerate much?

I've owned a GS longer than you've been on WUS, and have probably read at least some of every GS thread since 2014.


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

Zinzan said:


> Oh, well, I did hear a story once about an unsightly scrubbing caused by a short fall on carpet. ;-)
> 
> Thousands? Exaggerate much?
> 
> I've owned a GS longer than you've been on WUS, and have probably read at least some of every GS thread since 2014.


Maybe a little exaggerated. The point is solid though, that you don't have to look very far to find a thread talking about how delicate and easily damaged zaratsu is.

I'm not saying I agree, only that if they are that delicate, it would be hard to use as a daily.

I do own 2 myself and have owned another in the past.

I haven't been on the forums very long, so I'm not sure the point of commenting on that.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

Jostack said:


> Maybe a little exaggerated. The point is solid though, that you don't have to look very far to find a thread talking about how delicate and easily damaged zaratsu is.
> 
> I'm not saying I agree, only that if they are that delicate, it would be hard to use as a daily.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm not sure of the point of you assuming I don't read the GS forum much.

Sure, there are posts about "damage" as you call normal wear, but not just on GS. I read many more stories on my AP forums, and on the Rolex forums regarding PCLs or the polished slab sides of the current gen Subs and/or GMT Masters. I'm sure very few polished luxury watches out there avoid "damage".


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## Mbappe (May 13, 2020)

If you shine a flashlight on any of your polished watches, you will see lots of small scratches that you would never really notice. This happens with every watch so I don’t think Zaratsu is any ’weaker’ than other polish techniques. 

We GS owners love to inspect the watch very closely and that could be another reason to finding more scratches. I‘ve had my SBGM221 for over a month and I can definitely see some small hairline scratches, but only in very harsh lighting. Its nothing to cry over. It’s a watch. It will get scratches.


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## L84AD8 (Apr 15, 2016)

Thought this might be fitting in here..
Spotted a guy on IG who sent his Snowflake back to Japan to fix some scratches..
Before:

__
http://instagr.am/p/B0GBK72HpxQ/
After:

__
http://instagr.am/p/B7c9m2_HxcG/
Looks pretty amazing to me.. 
Disclaimer, not my watch nor post, I don't know the details..


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## omeglycine (Jan 21, 2011)

T1meout said:


> There is a significant difference between regular and zaratsu polishing. I suggest getting an eye exam to people who claim otherwise. Try doing this with a regular finish.
> View attachment 15372505


I've always found these examples kind of strange. Have owned a few GSs and I just placed an order for another one yesterday. But in response to a similar photo years ago I took this picture in about 5 seconds of set-up with terrible lighting at 10pm on an old iPad:










Not saying they're equal, but I also wouldn't say there's a significantly noticeable difference using the "read off the surface" method.


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

Ok kids, real comparison shots, not marketing materials.

SBGH213 









DJ41 









Mind you, this is the same very worn Rolex I posted earlier in this thread. The GS has some wear on it, but that's how I do.

Take it for what it's worth. I still hold the opinion that there is not much difference at all. If the only way you can tell is by being very experienced or with a side by side comparison in an artificial staged environment, the value is negligible.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

Jostack said:


> Ok kids, real comparison shots, not marketing materials.
> 
> SBGH213
> 
> ...


The photograp of the DJ is taken from a closer distance than that of the GS.
Also, a good comparison requires pictures taken off a flat surface area where less distortion will occur.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

L84AD8 said:


> Thought this might be fitting in here..
> Spotted a guy on IG who sent his Snowflake back to Japan to fix some scratches..
> Before:
> 
> ...


This picture proofs nothing. They may have simply replaced the entire bezel.


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

T1meout said:


> The photograp of the DJ is taken from a closer distance than that of the GS. But even at greater magnification the lettering on the DJ is less crisp and significantly more distorted.


The difference is noticeable, but not significant in my opinion. Consider the amount of wear and or damage as I tend to refer to it, on the DJ, and I think most would agree.

GS is great. Zaratsu polish is great. They've done a fabulous job creating a marketable buzz word. I'm not knocking it. I just think the buzz exceeds reality.


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## Ginseng108 (May 10, 2017)

Mbappe said:


> I don't think Zaratsu is any 'weaker' than other polish techniques.


I've heard Zaratsu described as such before and it doesn't make any sense to me. "Weak" or "strong" are not descriptors that make any sense with respect to the _results_ of a polishing technique. It's _only_ the base material that determines the surface hardness and scratch resistance, not any form of polishing. 
What the finishing does is present a surface that makes certain types of "damage" more or less visible. The greater the microsmoothness, the greater the contrast of any scratch or scuff that appears.
Now, as to the question of how cotton cloth, nylon fabric, wool, all materials that are substantially softer than steel, could be imparting scratches with the lightest of brushing contact, intellectually I can't fathom this. That a softer material cannot scratch a harder material is the basis for the Mohs scratch hardness test so I can only guess that there must be some material on or in the offending item that has hardness higher than steel. For example, silica beach sand on your shirt or quartz-containing dirt on the carpet.


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## Incident (Jan 27, 2014)

Jostack said:


> They've done a fabulous job creating a marketable buzz word.
> 
> I'm not knocking it. I just think the buzz exceeds reality.


One could make this arguement about Rolex.


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## Jostack (Jul 1, 2018)

Incident said:


> One could make this arguement about Rolex.


Yeah, that's a different conversation. I agree with your point, but not really the same.


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## L84AD8 (Apr 15, 2016)

If it helps you sleep better at night.. 


T1meout said:


> This picture proofs nothing. They may have simply replaced the entire bezel.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

L84AD8 said:


> If it helps you sleep better at night..


Dude, it was a legitimate comment, they may have just replaced that bezel. Why so dismissive?


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## L84AD8 (Apr 15, 2016)

If you and T1meout bothered to click into the IG post, the owner clearly stated that it was "polished".
The comment would be "legitimate" if he actually contacted the owner to find out the fact, instead of just blurting out a random comment on no basis at all.
As I said, I'm not the owner, I don't know the details, I saw the post on IG and simply thought people who are curious about the GS "polishing" work could be interested, nobody is out to "prove" anything....


Zinzan said:


> Dude, it was a legitimate comment, they may have just replaced that bezel. Why so dismissive?


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

L84AD8 said:


> If you and T1meout bothered to click into the IG post, the owner clearly stated that it was "polished".
> The comment would be "legitimate" if he actually contacted the owner to find out the fact, instead of just blurting out a random comment on no basis at all.
> As I said, I'm not the owner, I don't know the details, I saw the post on IG and simply thought people who are curious about the GS "polishing" work could be interested, nobody is out to "prove" anything....


I think @T1meout's point was that even if he sent it in for Zaratsu polishing, Grand Seiko may very well have just replaced the bezel. The owner/IG poster may not know that happened.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

L84AD8 said:


> If you and T1meout bothered to click into the IG post, the owner clearly stated that it was "polished".
> The comment would be "legitimate" if he actually contacted the owner to find out the fact, instead of just blurting out a random comment on no basis at all.
> As I said, I'm not the owner, I don't know the details, I saw the post on IG and simply thought people who are curious about the GS "polishing" work could be interested, nobody is out to "prove" anything....


GS very often will just replace vs repoolishing. From what others have quoated, the price to polish vs replace is virtually the same which is in and of itself a bit shocking, but I seem to have read that a few times.


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## L84AD8 (Apr 15, 2016)

Guys, I've never mentioned that a GS repair could not be a "replacement bezel" instead of polishing, in some circumstances that would probably make more sense.
I'm simply saying, this particular snowflake owner made an IG post saying he is very happy with the "polishing" job done in Japan, I saw the post, have no reason to doubt the owner's statement, the result impressed me, so I reposted here to share with other enthusiasts who might appreciate the post.
If T1meout cannot accept the owner's claim, he is more than welcome to find out the details to the repair done to this watch, instead of leaving a comment with nothing to back it up.


Zinzan said:


> I think @T1meout's point was that even if he sent it in for Zaratsu polishing, Grand Seiko may very well have just replaced the bezel. The owner/IG poster may not know that happened.





DustinS said:


> GS very often will just replace vs repoolishing. From what others have quoated, the price to polish vs replace is virtually the same which is in and of itself a bit shocking, but I seem to have read that a few times.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

L84AD8 said:


> Guys, I've never mentioned that a GS repair could not be a "replacement bezel" instead of polishing, in some circumstances that would probably make more sense.
> I'm simply saying, this particular snowflake owner made an IG post saying he is very happy with the "polishing" job done in Japan, I saw the post, have no reason to doubt the owner's statement, the result impressed me, so I reposted here to share with other enthusiasts who might appreciate the post.
> If T1meout cannot accept the owner's claim, he is more than welcome to find out the details to the repair done to this watch, instead of leaving a comment with nothing to back it up.


_Sigh_, you're just arguing with yourself. Fine, you shared some IG photos of a bezel that was polished or replaced. Thanks.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

L84AD8 said:


> Guys, I've never mentioned that a GS repair could not be a "replacement bezel" instead of polishing, in some circumstances that would probably make more sense.
> I'm simply saying, this particular snowflake owner made an IG post saying he is very happy with the "polishing" job done in Japan, I saw the post, have no reason to doubt the owner's statement, the result impressed me, so I reposted here to share with other enthusiasts who might appreciate the post.
> If T1meout cannot accept the owner's claim, he is more than welcome to find out the details to the repair done to this watch, instead of leaving a comment with nothing to back it up.


Unless the owner did the work himself, he doesn't know what seiko did. We're saying it's not uncommon for seiko to do a replacement vs a polish when you request a polish. I'm not sure where the confusion is.


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## L84AD8 (Apr 15, 2016)

Zinzan said:


> _Sigh_, you're just arguing with yourself. Fine, you shared some IG photos of a bezel that was polished or replaced. Thanks.


With that reply, it's clear that you do not understand what I am typing (hence my reply to T1 in the first place), so it's the end of this discussion for me. and you're welcome!



DustinS said:


> Unless the owner did the work himself, he doesn't know what seiko did. We're saying it's not uncommon for seiko to do a replacement vs a polish when you request a polish. I'm not sure where the confusion is.


Well, since you are not GS nor the owner, you for sure do not know the repair done to this watch is NOT a polish, I've never said the replacement it not a possibility but until further evidence, I simply trust the owner's statement. There is no confusion.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

L84AD8 said:


> With that reply, it's clear that you do not understand what I am typing (hence my reply to T1 in the first place), so it's the end of this discussion for me. and you're welcome!
> 
> Well, since you are not GS nor the owner, you for sure do not know the repair done to this watch is NOT a polish, I've never said the replacement it not a possibility but until further evidence, I simply trust the owner's statement. There is no confusion.


^This guy^

Corn fused.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

L84AD8 said:


> With that reply, it's clear that you do not understand what I am typing (hence my reply to T1 in the first place), so it's the end of this discussion for me. and you're welcome!
> 
> Well, since you are not GS nor the owner, you for sure do not know the repair done to this watch is NOT a polish, I've never said the replacement it not a possibility but until further evidence, I simply trust the owner's statement. There is no confusion.


I don't understand your confusion. We're saying the owner wouldn't know. That's not uncommon. Why is this a sticking point for you? Some companies won't do a replacement when people ask for a polish, seiko will in some cases. The owner isn't going to know anything other than he/she gets their watch back looking new.


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## L84AD8 (Apr 15, 2016)

I understood very well what you said and I've stated my point several times already, I will not repeat further.


DustinS said:


> I don't understand your confusion. We're saying the owner wouldn't know. That's not uncommon. Why is this a sticking point for you? Some companies won't do a replacement when people ask for a polish, seiko will in some cases. The owner isn't going to know anything other than he/she gets their watch back looking new.


Sincere apologies to the OP for derailing the thread, I meant well when I reposted the IG posts.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

Looks like I'm late to the party. I thank my forum brothers for so eloquently explaining the intent of my post in response to L84AD8's post.
For those interested in finding out more on the subject of refinishing vs replacement and pricing, I suggest the following interesting thread. Warning, it will be a long but enjoyable read.








The Zaratsu Journey?A Real-Life Experience with Grand...


The Zaratsu Journey—A Real-Life Experience with Grand Seiko’s Polishing Service [update 2/5] One of the most distinguishing features of any Grand Seiko, and perhaps the most obvious element highlighting the brand's emphasis on fine craftsmanship, is the extremely fine finish on every high...




www.watchuseek.com


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## GrumpyBear (Aug 8, 2020)

Oh man, I really do feel your pain, but I’ll just say you wouldn’t believe what kind of damage carpet can do to a human knee 
Anyway, fwiw, after 4 months of owning my first GS, I came to terms with the possibility of scratching it up, and while I still baby it a bit more than I probably should, it’s a Quartz so I’ll just have it serviced and polished if necessary whenever it runs out of battery.

On a totally random side note, my late grandfather was a true craftsman, and he would black polish knife blades and pocket knife cases just for the fun of it after he was retired. Sadly I didn’t pick up any of his skill, stupid stupid me, but I can see the prices quoted here justified after having seen how much effort and elbow grease and skill and experience was needed.


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