# Help! - Zenith says it will not repair my 20 year old watch - UPDATED



## TimeWellSpent

Dear WUS community, can you point me to someone who can fix a 20 year old Zenith?

I bought a second hand Zenith Elite with Power Reserve several years ago. One day the winding mechanism gave up - I could feel a crack and the indicator of the power reserve stopped working. The local watchmaker of my confidence told me that he would not be able to repair it as it contained an in-house movement for which he would not have any parts available.

After a lengthy, horrible experience with a Zenith AD (they wanted to charge me $300 just to get a quote for repair and essentially held my watch hostage via a “down payment”) and a similarly bad experience with Zenith’s US service center (they wanted to charge me $150 just for an estimate, essentially confirming that the AD had tried to overcharge me by 100%, and still asking money for a non-service), my watch was finally sent to HQ in Switzerland.

After a 4 month wait I received my watch back - in the same condition that I had sent it. There was no letter coming with it apart from a service receipt that stated that no service was performed. No further explanation.

I called the service center and they told me that I have a “vintage piece” and that they don’t have any spare parts for it (the model is from 2000-2005!). They also said, as they don’t have any spare parts whatsoever, that they saw no use in opening the watch and hence could not tell me what was wrong with it or which piece was broken!

Needless to say that I am massively disappointed by the whole experience and that Zenith had lost any credibility for me as a luxury brand. I have had watches serviced by JLC and IWC and the Richemont Group is light years ahead of LVMH when it comes to after sales service.

Do I now have a luxury timepiece, that is less than 20 years old and that retailed north of 10k that is beyond repair? What are my options?


UPDATE: Zenith resolved the issue for me after I escalated to the company’s leadership. The case was not original Zenith, which is why they would not service the watch initially. There were multiple communication issues in several instances at dealer and service center level. Zenith ended up servicing the movement for free. Overall it has been quite a ride and I document all my communication in Zenith as well as the final outcome in the threat below.


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## prokudin

This is appalling to learn! I know that on fb Zenith group there are some members connected to Zenith head quarters. Maybe write this story there and see if they react. It is hard to imagine that your piece is that antique for Zenith. I know at least one person who owns the same watch, so it cannot be that rare.


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## TimeWellSpent

prokudin said:


> This is appalling to learn! I know that on fb Zenith group there are some members connected to Zenith head quarters. Maybe write this story there and see if they react. It is hard to imagine that your piece is that antique for Zenith. I know at least one person who owns the same watch, so it cannot be that rare.


Agree, it is not that old or that rare - several of the same model are up for sale at Chrono24 right now. This implies however that, if you buy a watch from Zenith today, don’t expect it to be serviceable in 2040.

I am not on FB but I am not sure how that would change things. It seems that as per company policy Zenith does not stock replacement parts for elder models.


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## Hartmut Richter

I would give them hell and take it up with their CEO if necessary. Your watch has a Cal. 655 and according to their website, they will service it at a rate of 600 CHF (Swiss Francs) for a full service (Category 1B in their rates sheet here):






null


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www.zenith-watches.com





Watches which they are sort of in doubt as to whether they can service them, they will do "as per estimate", presumably meaning that the estimate might reveal that it can't be done. But not the Cal. 655!

As for being charged in advance, this is ttrue but it is also the case with other luxury brands. You should get the money back if you have the service done, though (you don't pay for the estimate and then the full price for the service, you should have the estimate as part of the service if you place the order).

Good luck!

Hartmut Richter


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## TimeWellSpent

Hartmut Richter said:


> I would give them hell and take it up with their CEO if necessary. Your watch has a Cal. 655 and according to their website, they will service it at a rate of 600 CHF (Swiss Francs) for a full service (Category 1B in their rates sheet here):
> 
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> www.zenith-watches.com
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> 
> Watches which they are sort of in doubt as to whether they can service them, they will do "as per estimate", presumably meaning that the estimate might reveal that it can't be done. But not the Cal. 655!
> 
> As for being charged in advance, this is ttrue but it is also the case with other luxury brands. You should get the money back if you have the service done, though (you don't pay for the estimate and then the full price for the service, you should have the estimate as part of the service if you place the order).
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Hartmut Richter





Hartmut Richter said:


> I would give them hell and take it up with their CEO if necessary. Your watch has a Cal. 655 and according to their website, they will service it at a rate of 600 CHF (Swiss Francs) for a full service (Category 1B in their rates sheet here):
> 
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> null
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> www.zenith-watches.com
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> 
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> 
> Watches which they are sort of in doubt as to whether they can service them, they will do "as per estimate", presumably meaning that the estimate might reveal that it can't be done. But not the Cal. 655!
> 
> As for being charged in advance, this is ttrue but it is also the case with other luxury brands. You should get the money back if you have the service done, though (you don't pay for the estimate and then the full price for the service, you should have the estimate as part of the service if you place the order).
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Hartmut Richter


Hello Hartmut, thank you so much, this is super helpful information.

I was told by Zenith that they did not even bother to open the watch - which made me wonder why I had to send them the watch and wait for 4 months in the first place, as I could have sent them pictures or model details. If they state on their website that they service the specific caliber 655 then I am frankly clueless as to what’s going on here. I will contact HQ again and see what they have to tell me this time (unfortunately I don’t have the contact details of their CEO).

As to being charged in advance, I can only attest that neither JLC nor IWC do such a thing. To the contrary, they even took care of MY shipping costs AND sent me specialized packaging to ensure the watch does not get damaged on the way. That is the type of service I would hope for (if not expect) from a luxury watch manufacturer.

In case of Zenith, they did not even apologize for the fact that their AD tried to trick me into paying a 100% service mark-up which, as they confirmed, was not in line with their company policies. I am not trying to bash Zenith here but this entire episode has left a really sour taste in my mouth… and given the information you shared it’s not over yet.


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## Sokpuppet1

TimeWellSpent said:


> Dear WUS community, can you point me to someone who can fix a 20 year old Zenith?
> 
> I bought a second hand Zenith Elite with Power Reserve several years ago. One day the winding mechanism gave up - I could feel a crack and the indicator of the power reserve stopped working. The local watchmaker of my confidence told me that he would not be able to repair it as it contained an in-house movement for which he would not have any parts available.
> 
> After a lengthy, horrible experience with a Zenith AD (they wanted to charge me $300 just to get a quote for repair and essentially held my watch hostage via a “down payment”) and a similarly bad experience with Zenith’s US service center (they wanted to charge me $150 just for an estimate, essentially confirming that the AD had tried to overcharge me by 100%, and still asking money for a non-service), my watch was finally sent to HQ in Switzerland.
> 
> After a 4 month wait I received my watch back - in the same condition that I had sent it. There was no letter coming with it apart from a service receipt that stated that no service was performed. No further explanation.
> 
> I called the service center and they told me that I have a “vintage piece” and that they don’t have any spare parts for it (the model is from 2000-2005!). They also said, as they don’t have any spare parts whatsoever, that they saw no use in opening the watch and hence could not tell me what was wrong with it or which piece was broken!
> 
> Needless to say that I am massively disappointed by the whole experience and that Zenith had lost any credibility for me as a luxury brand. I have had watches serviced by JLC and IWC and the Richemont Group is light years ahead of LVMH when it comes to after sales service.
> 
> Do I now have a luxury timepiece, that is less than 20 years old and that retailed north of 10k that is beyond repair? What are my options?
> 
> 
> View attachment 16369337


I’ve heard this before with Zenith sadly. Very much turned me off from buying one even though an El Primero was high on my list for a while. If it can’t be serviced, that worries me.
Unless you can find a specialist, might be worth selling at a steep discount acknowledging the issues and let it become someone else’s problem.


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## TimeWellSpent

Based on Hartmut’s insight I gave customer service at HQ another chance. Called at 9am CT which is 4pm in Switzerland. Website states they are open until 5pm but I was informed that Customer Service had already left. They promised to call me back tomorrow.

I had called before and was promised the same thing, so not sure this will work. Looking at the horrible google ratings did not get my hopes up - seems like more people are having the same issue with even newer watches. Will keep you updated.


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## oprhodium39

I’m curious now - after approx a week of use I had to bring back my Defy Classic for warranty repair (handwinding problem), let’s see what will happen.


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## Hartmut Richter

Well, you could put the thumbscrews on a bit. I'd write to the CEO (who, unless I have missed something recent, should be Julien Tornare, CEO since 2017) and, failing that you have a specific e-mail for him, I'd write to Zenith in general (try [email protected] and if that isn't supported anymore, then use the contact formular on their webpage), addressing it to him personally. I would write objectively and without abuse, describing your situation but also stating that if you get no reply, you will write an open letter to all the watch magazines that you can find, letting them know of what happened. Trying to find the middle path will be a delicate balance between taking it all lying down and actually blackmailing the company but it seems that your situation is not acceptable. Good luck!

Hartmut Richter


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## TimeWellSpent

TimeWellSpent said:


> Based on Hartmut’s insight I gave customer service at HQ another chance. Called at 9am CT which is 4pm in Switzerland. Website states they are open until 5pm but I was informed that Customer Service had already left. They promised to call me back tomorrow.
> 
> I had called before and was promised the same thing, so not sure this will work. Looking at the horrible google ratings did not get my hopes up - seems like more people are having the same issue with even newer watches. Will keep you updated.
> View attachment 16371573


Why am I not surprised that customer service did not get back to me this time as promised?


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## Hartmut Richter

TimeWellSpent said:


> Why am I not surprised that customer service did not get back to me this time as promised?


   

Hartmut Richter


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## gumpy-au

wow that's really poor... for a watch that's not even that old... yeah i might stay away from the brand...


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## Ayreonaut

Zenith claims on their site that they will service old watches, even if they have to produce a part from scratch. 









Watch Maintenance, Repair & Services - ZENITH Luxury Watches


Whether for maintenance, repair or restoration, all the watchmakers in ZENITH authorized service centers have been specially trained within the Manufacture.




www.zenith-watches.com





*



Historical watch reparation

Click to expand...

*


> The integration of all watchmaking professions within the Manufacture du Locle allows the restoration of the vast majority of parts. For example, watches manufactured over a century ago come to life thanks to a rich history of craftsmanship and a legacy of craftsmanship from generation to generation. When the restoration of time-keeping is possible and requires the manufacture of new components, they are produced on site as a single piece.


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## TimeWellSpent

Ayreonaut said:


> Zenith claims on their site that they will service old watches, even if they have to produce a part from scratch.
> 
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> Watch Maintenance, Repair & Services - ZENITH Luxury Watches
> 
> 
> Whether for maintenance, repair or restoration, all the watchmakers in ZENITH authorized service centers have been specially trained within the Manufacture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.zenith-watches.com


They also claim to have great customer service 🤔


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## JohnnyMac1

TimeWellSpent said:


> They also claim to have great customer service 🤔


So glad I came across this post. I had been looking at a few zenith watches. Had been!
After reading this post if I owned one I’d be selling it. Good luck with your watch, I hope it works out in the end!


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## MaDTempo

Wow! That just sucks. No advice but feeling for you.


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## TimeWellSpent

Found CEO Julien Tornare's contact info and sent an email. Let's see if I hear back. Easiest way out for Zenith would be to either claim that there was a miscommunication and that the watch is beyond repair (which would be inaccurate - my watchmaker told me it's about one single piece that he cannot get) or by performing the service for free with some apologies (fingers crossed). However, I am pretty sure he'll just delegate to his team who will either put me back in line for the regular service route with uncertain end or simply ignore my email. Any bets? 

Zenith's most likely reaction?
A) "Watch beyond repair"
B) Free service!
C) Go back to Start
D) _nothing_


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## Winzzz

Good luck op.hope the ceo and Zenith can make it right.keep us updated


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## Pj66

Thanks for the info. Scratched that one off my grail lists.


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## EnoMarco

In all honesty, I'm not surprised. LVMH group kind of has this effect on brands


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## oldbrat

TimeWellSpent said:


> Zenith's most likely reaction?
> A) "Watch beyond repair"
> B) Free service!
> C) Go back to Start
> D) _nothing_


Easy choice. My bet is D.

Have a Zenith Port Royal myself, just serviced by local watchmaker. Lucky for me that after 12 years, no part was broken. If that was the case, my best bet would be throw away the watch, instead of messing with those Zenith customers disservice. Thanks for the headup.


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## TimeWellSpent

oldbrat said:


> Easy choice. My bet is D.
> 
> Have a Zenith Port Royal myself, just serviced by local watchmaker. Lucky for me that after 12 years, no part was broken. If that was the case, my best bet would be throw away the watch, instead of messing with those Zenith customers disservice. Thanks for the headup.





oldbrat said:


> Easy choice. My bet is D.
> 
> Have a Zenith Port Royal myself, just serviced by local watchmaker. Lucky for me that after 12 years, no part was broken. If that was the case, my best bet would be throw away the watch, instead of messing with those Zenith customers disservice. Thanks for the headup.


If he dares to not react at all I’ll follow Hartmut Richter’s advice. Apart from the half a million WUS members - of which most will not have not seen this threat as it is buried in the Zenith corner - I am sure that watch magazines may find it interesting to know that Zenith watches become a true gamble after only two decades. What a great way would that be to ruin a brand.

But quite frankly, I cannot imagine that someone in Mr Tornare’s position would not at least delegate this to his service folks with the request to be informed once the issue is resolved.

… Or the brand is truly one to not touch with a ten foot pole.


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## longtimelurker

Something ain't right. I've had a handful of Zenith serviced (from 90s to current models) and never had a problem. 

Granted they were all EP-based movements, but they even dug up a NOS part for one just before they resigned to make one. 

Don't know what to make of your situation. 

As far as the AD, some take a small "deposit" and put it towards the service bill afterwards. Never had Zenith require anything like that. 

I would actually recommend calling another AD and tell them your story. See if it sounds consistent and/or if they will help you out. Tje dealer can be a powerful advocate for you, if they do their job.


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## TimeWellSpent

longtimelurker said:


> Something ain't right. I've had a handful of Zenith serviced (from 90s to current models) and never had a problem.
> 
> Granted they were all EP-based movements, but they even dug up a NOS part for one just before they resigned to make one.
> 
> Don't know what to make of your situation.
> 
> As far as the AD, some take a small "deposit" and put it towards the service bill afterwards. Never had Zenith require anything like that.
> 
> I would actually recommend calling another AD and tell them your story. See if it sounds consistent and/or if they will help you out. Tje dealer can be a powerful advocate for you, if they do their job.


Agree, a lot ain’t right. As mentioned, at some point I skipped the dealer and went straight to the US service center. That is what I should have done in the first place and also what the customer service at HQ in Switzerland told me to do - that’s right, they said don’t send us your watch directly, send it to the US customer service center first. And the US folks looked at it - apparently they did not open it either because, according to their Manager, they don’t service the model (!) - and then they forwarded it to Switzerland. I don’t get why I had to sent it through the US but the entire internal processes and everything around communication seems super messed up to me. There is nothing here though that involving another AD would have changed - apart from risking that this AD charges me some extra fee or includes some mark-up, because apparently they also don’t have clear policies for their dealers or they don’t enforce them.


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## TimeWellSpent

Day 1: No reply from Zenith. So far consistent with the organization’s previous service level.


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## PFunkateer

Well **** this is a complete turn off to zenith. Kinda liked the type 20 too...


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## Dave_1442397

TimeWellSpent said:


> Day 1: No reply from Zenith. So far consistent with the organization’s previous service level.


I've also heard that Zenith want you to send watches to their NJ service center, for which I've seen quite a few bad reviews.

I have a Zenith El Primero 'Big Blue' from the '70s, and when it comes to servicing it, I'll probably use Govberg's service center, which is close by. They do free estimates, so maybe try them and see what they say - Watch Repair | Watch Service Center | Govberg Watch Repair


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## GConn

Sad situation indeed. The big corps of today usually end up with the complainant on the phone for endless hours only to frustrate him/her more. It applies to several industries unfortunately.


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## TimeWellSpent

Dave_1442397 said:


> I've also heard that Zenith want you to send watches to their NJ service center, for which I've seen quite a few bad reviews.
> 
> I have a Zenith El Primero 'Big Blue' from the '70s, and when it comes to servicing it, I'll probably use Govberg's service center, which is close by. They do free estimates, so maybe try them and see what they say - Watch Repair | Watch Service Center | Govberg Watch Repair


Thank you so much! I’ll give it a few weeks and see if Zenith gets their act together and then probably try Govberg. Have you had any experience with them?


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## TimeWellSpent

GConn said:


> Sad situation indeed. The big corps of today usually end up with the complainant on the phone for endless hours only to frustrate him/her more. It applies to several industries unfortunately.


I can (kind of) get that when you are talking about a $350 smart phone. Difficult to understand when the products are $10,000+ luxury watches. I’d expect high quality service to be priced in tbh, simply because it is such an important part to creating brand value.


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## TimeWellSpent

Update day 2: Received an automated “read” receipt from Julian Tornare’s email. That just means that over 24h after sending my email someone with access to Julian Tornare’s corporate email account has found the time to read my request. Time IS moving slower in Switzerland.


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## Dave_1442397

TimeWellSpent said:


> Thank you so much! I’ll give it a few weeks and see if Zenith gets their act together and then probably try Govberg. Have you had any experience with them?


I haven't needed their service department yet. I used a local watchmaker for servicing some of my older, but cheaper, watches. I have visited the Govberg store in Philadelphia, and their sales staff was really nice. Govberg also started Watchbox.com, so they probably service a lot of high-end watches. Based on what I've heard, I would trust them to do a good job.


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## Ed B.

> > Zenith claims on their site that they will service old watches, even if they have to produce a part from scratch.


If you can prove this representation I’d produce a screen grab and, with it, contact your state’s attorney general’s office for consumer affair claims and see if they can provide some muscle. The risk of a ban on doing business in the state for fraudulent/deceptive advertising practices might be sufficient to get some movement. If you can get your attorney to make the complaint for you so much the better.
Good luck, and let the community know what happens.
Ed B.


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## B.Kohr

Try to get the refusal to service the watch, in writing. Screenshot the repair statement on their website.


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## TimeWellSpent

Ed B. said:


> If you can prove this representation I’d produce a screen grab and, with it, contact your state’s attorney general’s office for consumer affair claims and see if they can provide some muscle. The risk of a ban on doing business in the state for fraudulent/deceptive advertising practices might be sufficient to get some movement. If you can get your attorney to make the complaint for you so much the better.
> Good luck, and let the community know what happens.
> Ed B.


You are right. That being said, the Swiss have a saying "Recht haben heisst nicht Recht bekommen." Essentially means that you might be right but it does not imply that justice is done. So this could imply a lot of hassle and work with uncertain outcome.

I love watches and like many on this forum I view this as a hobby. I am a very busy professional, I am not a lawyer, and quite frankly I don't like having to deal with them if I don't absolutely have to. This process has been a joykill for me and - I don't need to extend it indefinitely and spend more money over it. I will definitely follow-up with Zenith's CEO Julien Tornare at length and hopefully annoy him enough to give me an honest reply. He is an executive just like me, and if he does his job well he'll take my concern seriously - not because I matter to him but because my issue is symptomatic of much larger issues at the company that he really needs to fix; he can use me as a case study to generate urgency within the organization (and if he digs deeper he'll find plenty of similar cases it seems). So either he is good at his job and will get this fixed, which will help everyone who likes Zenith's products long term, or he sucks at it and deserves to get fired.

As for me, either they will make me whole or I'll share my experience with others so that people can make up their minds and avoid making wrong decisions. Life is too short ...


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## TimeWellSpent

B.Kohr said:


> Try to get the refusal to service the watch, in writing. Screenshot the repair statement on their website.


Lol. Happy to get ANY response from them, in writing, over the phone, by pigeon express ... To be clear, my goal is not to legally coerce them into servicing the watch - they could always make service fees prohibitively expensive with some kind of bullshirt excuse - but (a) to get my watch fixed, and at this point also (b) ideally get some type of internal communication started about how they want to treat their customers moving forward.


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## Sdasurrey

I’m jumping into this discussion ‘mid flight’ so apologies if I have skipped over some parts - just a few comments from my experience 10 years collecting vintage chronographs and now i guess I can speak some about Zenith, having acquired 7 EPs over the last 2 years… the ‘list’ ….

(1) yes zenith is a luxury brand and we are on here on this post, because we collect and like (a lot) Zenith watches - but this issue with poor support from Zenith directly for servicing their watches is a fairly long running theme here - especially in the states from past anecdotes discussed in posts on here .. 

(2) most of us as collectors would probably agree the watches especially EPs are ‘fab’ so in some examples more generally, companies who have great products may lack good service business models - I’m generalising but really this is classical economics, Adam Smith, David Ricardo Comparative Advantage - specialise and do what you’re good at, because it’s hard to be the ‘best at everything ‘ - now I fully admit I’m generalizing big time - but this theme which has run through over 200 years of economics seems ‘applicable’ here…

(3) case in point: how many times have you gone to a restaurant with a fab view from the top of a tall building or other unique location only to find the food sucks ? I have ….too often…

(4) Does ‘inelastic demand’ drive business strategy ? Inelastic demand is when the buyer is insensitive to price changes - they ‘want or need a product or service’ so the seller can ‘charge almost whatever they want’…Your car breaks down and the tow truck driver says the price is ‘double’ because you have no choice …
So If Zenith buyers are somewhat ‘cult like’ (sound familiar? I have my ‘Zenith-cult’ card I can post if anyone is interested !) and management know this then is it a reasonable strategy to minimize investment in servicing to ‘mine’ net profits from Watch sales ? No value judgements about Zenith management ….

I’m making zero value judgements as said but asking a rhetorical question…

(5) as a 30s-40s vintage chrono collector I don’t know how to spell ‘AD’ or ‘service by the manufacturer’ … others ‘mileage may differ’…

(6) so I have purchased 4 Rainbows and a De Luca this year, 2 of which needed almost immediate service, (stripped crown as well) no joy of course from the seller, and not wanting to go through lots of BS I just had the watch serviced here in England - a very good, well known watchmaker (Prestige Time Services) sourcing Zenith parts (crown and tube) directly from Zenith and probably less cost than Zenith ! Just got it back, running close to COSC… 

Anyway while getting a coffee in my village, and skimming this thread, these are my 2 p!

Sorry to the OP for the lack of support, run around and grief - good luck - but as a vintage collector we learn to find a good watchmaker, wherever … cheers … S 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ed B.

> I am not a lawyer, and quite frankly I don't like having to deal with them if I don't absolutely have to.


That might be, but one of them, albeit retired, went out of his way to try to help you out. 
EB


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## J__D

Sorry to hear your pain. Just to balance out generally, Zenith UK after sales have been perfectly great to me, communication was good and the team generally seemed all good.


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## triwater

Just sent my '98 model with the ELP in for service through my AD, as it was just acquired by me with no service history. Charged me $55 USD to cover shipping to NJ and back to TX. No mention of a "diagnostic fee" or the like. Rep just said that Zenith will go through it and give me a "take it or leave it" recommendation. For what you are describing, being it's an obvious failure and not a service, is disturbing. Wish I would have come across this thread earlier. 

Please keep us posted and thanks for the story.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


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## FishingForFishies

triwater said:


> Just sent my '98 model with the ELP in for service through my AD, as it was just acquired by me with no service history. Charged me $55 USD to cover shipping to NJ and back to TX. No mention of a "diagnostic fee" or the like. Rep just said that Zenith will go through it and give me a "take it or leave it" recommendation. For what you are describing, being it's an obvious failure and not a service, is disturbing. Wish I would have come across this thread earlier.
> 
> Please keep us posted and thanks for the story.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk


Interested to see how your service turns out as well. A good additional data point.


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## Eyeshield25

Wow.. Quite a story, and hopefully Julien or anyone at Zenith will give you the proper reply soon. Zenith is one of my favorite brand, and like you, after reading a lot of their after series horror stories I'm getting less interested by them..


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## WTSP

I too have had a terrible service experience with Zenith and LVMH which is part of the reason I created the thread that is now my signature.

However, I think it should be noted that the OP is possibly sending them a frankenwatch. It has a dial and movement from a Zenith Class Elite HW power reserve, but the case doesn’t match the dial. It looks like some strange aftermarket thing to me. Here’s what the original should look like, either in steel or gold.










One would hope that Zenith could and would service such a watch. But it may explain their refusal to service it.


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## TimeWellSpent

WTSP said:


> I too have had a terrible service experience with Zenith and LVMH which is part of the reason I created the thread that is now my signature.
> 
> However, I think it should be noted that the OP is possibly sending them a frankenwatch. It has a dial and movement from a Zenith Class Elite HW power reserve, but the case doesn’t match the dial. It looks like some strange aftermarket thing to me. Here’s what the original should look like, either in steel or gold.
> 
> View attachment 16389034
> 
> 
> One would hope that Zenith could and would service such a watch. But it may explain their refusal to service it.


For all I know, the crown is not original, but dial, case and movement are. There have been different iterations of this model over the years.


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## TimeWellSpent

Update day 5: Still no answer from the CEO (after the automatic confirmation of having received my email). Not sure if my request is being deprioritized or ignored, either way not a great feeling.

So it seems like I identified the origin of all customer service issues at Zenith, starting from the head: Nobody gives a fork.


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## FishingForFishies

Back in the day Apple had an email box for “Steve Jobs”. Email address was public and people encouraged to write. 

I went through 9-10 iPod minis that had bad batteries. Each time Apple under warranty replaced it with a refurb unit. After all of them, including one where the battery inside ‘exploded’ a little’, I sent an email to that address laying out my saga. 

Soon after a “senior customer service” rep reached out to me and was extremely empathetic and eager to support. He asked what my closest Apple store was, called them up, and arranged for me to come in and pick up a BNIB iPod classic as a replacement for the current broken iPod mini. 

To this day I have that iPad classic and it still works great. 

I don’t believe apples customer service is as good as those days, but that sort of effort instilled in me some lifelong fondness for the brand. 

Zenith here is going to archive the opposite when doing right could be so easy. Just have some admin asst or PR person monitor the CEOs public “inbox” and triage issues.


----------



## TimeWellSpent

FishingForFishies said:


> Back in the day Apple had an email box for “Steve Jobs”. Email address was public and people encouraged to write.
> 
> I went through 9-10 iPod minis that had bad batteries. Each time Apple under warranty replaced it with a refurb unit. After all of them, including one where the battery inside ‘exploded’ a little’, I sent an email to that address laying out my saga.
> 
> Soon after a “senior customer service” rep reached out to me and was extremely empathetic and eager to support. He asked what my closest Apple store was, called them up, and arranged for me to come in and pick up a BNIB iPod classic as a replacement for the current broken iPod mini.
> 
> To this day I have that iPad classic and it still works great.
> 
> I don’t believe apples customer service is as good as those days, but that sort of effort instilled in me some lifelong fondness for the brand.
> 
> Zenith here is going to archive the opposite when doing right could be so easy. Just have some admin asst or PR person monitor the CEOs public “inbox” and triage issues.


Well, I put [email protected]ith-watches.com in copy. So their customer service team was informed and is simply just as bad and apathetic as their CEO.

But with regard to your Apple story, there is a reason why people were willing to churn out $1000 for a “phone” when other companies felt like charging $400 was out of range … or why Jack Forster is wearing his haute horlogerie timepiece AND and an Apple Watch


----------



## WTSP

TimeWellSpent said:


> For all I know, the crown is not original, but dial, case and movement are. There have been different iterations of this model over the years.


Do you have a model/reference number? It should be written on the caseback. Alternately, do you have a photo of the caseback? I’d be surprised to learn that it’s an original Zenith case.


----------



## joshd2012

WTSP said:


> I too have had a terrible service experience with Zenith and LVMH which is part of the reason I created the thread that is now my signature.
> 
> However, I think it should be noted that the OP is possibly sending them a frankenwatch. It has a dial and movement from a Zenith Class Elite HW power reserve, but the case doesn’t match the dial. It looks like some strange aftermarket thing to me. Here’s what the original should look like, either in steel or gold.
> 
> View attachment 16389034
> 
> 
> One would hope that Zenith could and would service such a watch. But it may explain their refusal to service it.


I have no knowledge of this particular model, which is why I didn’t want to be the first person to mention this, but when I was reading the OP’s post, and how they didn’t even open the watch, I immediately thought of Rolex. I have read that if you send Rolex a fake, they won’t touch it, and politely send it back with light allusion to it being a replica. Zenith may not have the mannerism to kindly let you down, but the business of not even opening the watch did stick out to me as odd.That is, unless they knew it to be a problem from the look of the case, as noted above.


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## TimeWellSpent

joshd2012 said:


> I have no knowledge of this particular model, which is why I didn’t want to be the first person to mention this, but when I was reading the OP’s post, and how they didn’t even open the watch, I immediately thought of Rolex. I have read that if you send Rolex a fake, they won’t touch it, and politely send it back with light allusion to it being a replica. Zenith may not have the mannerism to kindly let you down, but the business of not even opening the watch did stick out to me as odd.That is, unless they knew it to be a problem from the look of the case, as noted above.


That is an interesting thought. However, I had the watch inspected by a professional watchmaker, who opened it. I handed it to a Zenith AD and it was inspected by the US Zenith service center (twice!) before it was sent to HQ. None have commented that there might be anything wrong with the watch apart from the crown, which is clearly aftermarket… and of course that the PR does not work. I don’t want to discard the possibility but if that’s the case I am not sure why I had to go through a 1.5 year long Odysee with Zenith that is still inconclusive.


----------



## J__D

Also just to add, my gut feeling is the CEO is a touch busy currently with a few key launches which probably take precedence. Your email might be going through the company. I understand the annoyance, and I mean this politely but he's running around in one of the biggest weeks of the year for Zenith, so you didn't pick the most ideal time to email him.

I would wait until it's over and then rechase, assuming it's not a franken


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## Sdasurrey

TimeWellSpent said:


> Update day 5: Still no answer from the CEO (after the automatic confirmation of having received my email). Not sure if my request is being deprioritized or ignored, either way not a great feeling.
> 
> So it seems like I identified the origin of all customer service issues at Zenith, starting from the head: Nobody gives a fork.


Hi @TimeWellSpent …aside from the potential Franken issue, sorry you’re getting ‘no joy’ but as i pointed out in my comments, one possibility (the ‘inelastic demand’ idea) is minimising resources to support service at the extreme, could actually be a conscious business strategy….good luck, again…S 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WTSP

TimeWellSpent said:


> That is an interesting thought. However, I had the watch inspected by a professional watchmaker, who opened it. I handed it to a Zenith AD and it was inspected by the US Zenith service center (twice!) before it was sent to HQ. None have commented that there might be anything wrong with the watch apart from the crown, which is clearly aftermarket… and of course that the PR does not work. I don’t want to discard the possibility but if that’s the case I am not sure why I had to go through a 1.5 year long Odysee with Zenith that is still inconclusive.


I’m no watchmaker or Zenith expert, but I like to think that I have a certain amount of knowledge of the Zenith Class Elite series seeing as I’ve owned the 650 version for over ten years and have been following Zenith more closely than any other brand for some time.

From the only picture you’ve posted it seems to me that the dial and hands are genuine. The crown is hard to tell since it’s not very visible, but you’ve already indicated that it’s not original. The case looks entirely unoriginal, and is probably a gold plated generic item. A power reserve hand wound Class Elite model with gold tone numerals would have been paired with a solid gold case like the one in the photo. Its shape appears significantly different that the case in your photo. A side and back view would likely confirm this. Some Zenith Elite models from the late nineties had cases that were different from this Class version, but I’ve never seen a Class Elite dial ever paired with anything but this style of the Class Elite 37 mm case.










Zenith certainly isn’t a leader in after sales service, but I think your case may have an exceptional aspect to it.


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## LuckyTime35

WTSP said:


> I’m no watchmaker or Zenith expert, but I like to think that I have a certain amount of knowledge of the Zenith Class Elite series seeing as I’ve owned the 650 version for over ten years and have been following Zenith more closely than any other brand for some time.
> 
> From the only picture you’ve posted it seems to me that the dial and hands are genuine. The crown is hard to tell since it’s not very visible, but you’ve already indicated that it’s not original. The case looks entirely unoriginal, and is probably a gold plated generic item. A power reserve hand wound Class Elite model with gold tone numerals would have been paired with a solid gold case like the one in the photo. Its shape appears significantly different that the case in your photo. A side and back view would likely confirm this. Some Zenith Elite models from the late nineties had cases that were different from this Class version, but I’ve never seen a Class Elite dial ever paired with anything but this style of the Class Elite 37 mm case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zenith certainly isn’t a leader in after sales service, but I think your case may have an exceptional aspect to it.



so basically they don't want to service a 'franken'...makes sense, they should just come out and say it though so the customer can move on


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## Klip88

Interested to see how this plays out


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## Klip88

Klip88 said:


> Interested to see how this plays out


----------



## TimeWellSpent

WTSP said:


> I’m no watchmaker or Zenith expert, but I like to think that I have a certain amount of knowledge of the Zenith Class Elite series seeing as I’ve owned the 650 version for over ten years and have been following Zenith more closely than any other brand for some time.
> 
> From the only picture you’ve posted it seems to me that the dial and hands are genuine. The crown is hard to tell since it’s not very visible, but you’ve already indicated that it’s not original. The case looks entirely unoriginal, and is probably a gold plated generic item. A power reserve hand wound Class Elite model with gold tone numerals would have been paired with a solid gold case like the one in the photo. Its shape appears significantly different that the case in your photo. A side and back view would likely confirm this. Some Zenith Elite models from the late nineties had cases that were different from this Class version, but I’ve never seen a Class Elite dial ever paired with anything but this style of the Class Elite 37 mm case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zenith certainly isn’t a leader in after sales service, but I think your case may have an exceptional aspect to it.


Thank you so much for sharing. Yes, that does indeed look very different :-(( It also provides a great explanation for why HQ Customer Service did not touch it. Still begs the question why both their AD and their own service center missed this (the service center twice!). I'll soon find out.


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## TimeWellSpent

Update day 6: Surprising turn of events. CEO Julien Tornare replied saying that he is gathering information on what happened and will "get back to [me] shortly". He put the GM of NA, the head of customer service and the COO in copy. Whatever the issue with my watch (WTSP provided a good hypothesis it seems), I am glad he is taking this seriously and viewing it as a customer service issue. So there is still hope for all the El Primeros out there!


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## gumpy-au

TimeWellSpent said:


> Update day 6: Surprising turn of events. CEO Julien Tornare replied saying that he is gathering information on what happened and will "get back to [me] shortly". He put the GM of NA, the head of customer service and the COO in copy. Whatever the issue with my watch (WTSP provided a good hypothesis it seems), I am glad he is taking this seriously and viewing it as a customer service issue. So there is still hope for all the El Primeros out there!


Well how about that…


----------



## FishingForFishies

TimeWellSpent said:


> Update day 6: Surprising turn of events. CEO Julien Tornare replied saying that he is gathering information on what happened and will "get back to [me] shortly". He put the GM of NA, the head of customer service and the COO in copy. Whatever the issue with my watch (WTSP provided a good hypothesis it seems), I am glad he is taking this seriously and viewing it as a customer service issue. So there is still hope for all the El Primeros out there!


Great to hear he replied and copied those individuals! Hope to see a resolution here soon.


----------



## The Linen Dial

The outcome of this will certainly impact my valuation of Zenith as a brand to buy.

Even if a franken, Zenith should consider the OP’s wasted time for not explaining that.


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## J__D

Good start, good luck!


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## WTSP

During the short time I worked at an AD last year (mainly Swatch brands, not Zenith), I got to learn the recommended approach for people who came in with fakes or dubious watches. Apparently if confronted directly about authenticity or condition customers tend to get defensive and/or squirrelly. It usually doesn’t go well. So you essentially have to provide a polite excuse for not being able to service or otherwise deal with the watch. Also, some of my colleagues could easily recognize a fake or altered watch. Others could not. It depends on experience and the model of watch. I can do that for Zenith because I’m familiar with the brand, but don’t ask me to do that for Panerai or Rolex. 

So I can understand Zenith not wanting to deal with the OP’s watch. However, I think the gold star level of service would be to proactively identify that the case isn’t genuine and explain why it isn’t possible to service properly (gaskets, pressure testing, fit of crown, etc.), then offer to provide a new case at the customer’s expense. Making the watch whole would be the best approach, but it takes the willingness and ability to go the extra mile.


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## PFunkateer

Any updates on this issue?


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## TimeWellSpent

PFunkateer said:


> Any updates on this issue?


No updates. I wanted to give them two weeks to figure things out. I assume they need to track down the service center in the US and talk to their service department in SUI. Since either of them only seem to work 6h per day plus there is a 7h time difference between countries I assume they need some time to get their ducks in a row. They also might have to consult with legal how to treat this. So giving them the benefit of the doubt for now.


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## montelatici

If it is a watch in a different, non oem case with an incorrect crown it probably would not be opened by any watch manufacturer service center.


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## WTSP

@TimeWellSpent, for accuracy I think you should rename the title of your thread to include “my 20 year old watch with non original case”.


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## TimeWellSpent

WTSP said:


> @TimeWellSpent, for accuracy I think you should rename the title of your thread to include “my 20 year old watch with non original case”.


While that seems like a likely scenario, right now that is not confirmed. Neither the Zenith AD nor the Zenith US service center or Zenith’s Swiss service center have mentioned or even alluded to the fact that the case could be non original.


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## Dezzracer

But others here and yourself have all but confirmed it’s a franken. Put it on your dresser for display and wear a different watch. Stop putting yourself thru this pain and agony. Once the CEO is informed your watch has non original parts I doubt you will get the satisfaction you are looking for.


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## lorsban

WTSP said:


> During the short time I worked at an AD last year (mainly Swatch brands, not Zenith), I got to learn the recommended approach for people who came in with fakes or dubious watches. Apparently if confronted directly about authenticity or condition customers tend to get defensive and/or squirrelly. It usually doesn’t go well. So you essentially have to provide a polite excuse for not being able to service or otherwise deal with the watch. Also, some of my colleagues could easily recognize a fake or altered watch. Others could not. It depends on experience and the model of watch. I can do that for Zenith because I’m familiar with the brand, but don’t ask me to do that for Panerai or Rolex.
> 
> So I can understand Zenith not wanting to deal with the OP’s watch. However, I think the gold star level of service would be to proactively identify that the case isn’t genuine and explain why it isn’t possible to service properly (gaskets, pressure testing, fit of crown, etc.), then offer to provide a new case at the customer’s expense. Making the watch whole would be the best approach, but it takes the willingness and ability to go the extra mile.


Yeah that would be the best approach. Just say "sorry, we don't handle modified/unoriginal pieces" or like you said, offer an alternative. 

This happened to me too. Was traded an Omega speedmaster triple date. It was working intermittently and so I took it to the official Omega center and they quoted me a wild price replacing near everything but the case. I thought this was nuts and so brought it to a known watchmaker who got it working but ultimately it broke down again. Turns out it was a fake - but an excellent one since we couldn't tell and Omega did accept it for service - albeit to replace everything but still...


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## joshd2012

lorsban said:


> Yeah that would be the best approach. Just say "sorry, we don't handle modified/unoriginal pieces" or like you said, offer an alternative.
> 
> This happened to me too. Was traded an Omega speedmaster triple date. It was working intermittently and so I took it to the official Omega center and they quoted me a wild price replacing near everything but the case. I thought this was nuts and so brought it to a known watchmaker who got it working but ultimately it broke down again. Turns out it was a fake - but an excellent one since we couldn't tell and Omega did accept it for service - albeit to replace everything but still...


I wonder if they were able to authenticate the case, and were (politely) offering to replace all the "replica" parts to make it authentic again.


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## TimeWellSpent

I am sorry but Omega put me through over a year of pain and made me spend $300 bucks of shipping and hostage fees without resolving my issue or even stating the problem accurately. I think I still deserve at least an answer to my request if not an apology for their pathetic treatment of my problem.

If Zenith was your company, what would you do? Give me the silent treatment? Or try to find a solution that delights the customer and helps to create a long term fan of the brand? Something in the middle?


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## prokudin

TimeWellSpent said:


> I am sorry but Omega put me through over a year of pain and made me spend $300 bucks of shipping and hostage fees without resolving my issue or even stating the problem accurately. I think I still deserve at least an answer to my request if not an apology for their pathetic treatment of my problem.
> 
> If Zenith was your company, what would you do? Give me the silent treatment? Or try to find a solution that delights the customer and helps to create a long term fan of the brand? Something in the middle?


I totally agree. You deserve at the very least to be given explanations. I am not 100% sure the forum decision of the watch being a franken is legitimate as none of the members have actually inspected the watch other than seeing the pictures of the case. Only Zenith (or maybe a knowledgable watchmaker) can determine it. But even if so, there is no reason to bash you as the owner for having it.


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## WTSP

prokudin said:


> I totally agree. You deserve at the very least to be given explanations. I am not 100% sure the forum decision of the watch being a franken is legitimate as none of the members have actually inspected the watch other than seeing the pictures of the case. Only Zenith (or maybe a knowledgable watchmaker) can determine it. But even if so, there is no reason to bash you as the owner for having it.


I certainly think that Zenith should provide better explanations and possible options for repairing the watch. It’s also true that judging a watch from photos (or in this case just one photo) online is frequently not an appropriate way to conclude the authenticity of a watch and/or its parts.

However, in this case (pun intended) I’m quite certain that the case of this watch is not an original from Zenith. I don’t mean to pick on TimeWellSpent, but I also want to ensure that the right conclusions are drawn from this situation and that complaints as to Zenith’s customer service are reasonable. There’s a world of difference between a manufacturer that refuses to service their older models and one that refuses to service watches with non original parts. I’ve had a fifty year old El Primero serviced by Zenith, so we know that they do not refuse to service their older watches. To state this would be misleading.

I’d still really like to see a photo of the caseback of this watch. That would be the clincher. I expect it doesn’t have a model number etched on it. Zenith watches of that time period usually had model numbers etched on the caseback. Here’s what it should look like and that’s also the model number that matches that dial.


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## lorsban

joshd2012 said:


> I wonder if they were able to authenticate the case, and were (politely) offering to replace all the "replica" parts to make it authentic again.


Maybe? Who knows at this point.


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## TimeWellSpent

Update: Great news! "Was lange währt wird endlich gut" as the German-speaking Swiss would say! I just received a very satisfying and solomonic email from Zenith's International Customer Service Manager. Since I shared my story I also copy-paste the letter in full so you can form an opinion. The case was indeed not original Zenith, which explains - at least in part - what led to this episode. I am very glad (a) that Zenith responded, (b) that they acknowledged several mistakes on their end and apologized for the experience, and (c) that they proposed a solution that I very much appreciate. 



Z ENI T H B RANC H OF L VMH SWI S S MAN UF AC TUR E S A, B I L LODE S 3 4 , 2 4 0 0 L E LOC L E , SWI T Z E R L AND
T + 4 1 3 2 9 3 0 6 2 6 2 , IN [email protected] ENI T H -WA T CHE S . COM, Z ENI TH -WAT CHE S . COM

Le Locle, 10th of February 2022

Dear <_Timewellspent>_,

On behalf of Zenith, I sincerely apologize for the experience you had. I carefully read your comments and gathered the information related to your watch and repair.
I understand your watch wasn’t properly identified straight from beginning at the retailer and our workshop in Springfield, New Jersey, then the retail and technical staff presumed that your watch might be a vintage timepiece. Therefore, no rough cost estimate was given from the point of sale (despite the fact that we display our price list per caliber, on our website: Service Costs - Zenith) and then it was sent to Switzerland for estimate and repair.

We received your watch end of November. It was analyzed by our watchmaker and Heritage department. Several details lead to the conclusion that the case is not Zenith, not matching with the dial and movement of models ref. 30.1125.655 and 17.1125.655 : material, case horns, case back, engraving. So we have not opened the watch to avoid any risk of damaging it. Before sending your watch back to the US, we specified on the document that the watch could not be repaired, doing a mistake when mentioning the parts were out of stock, which is obviously not the reason and for which once again, I apologize.

Zenith never touch a watch when the case is not Zenith. However, I would like to propose you this offer. Would it be possible for you to go to a trusted watchmaker in your local market and get your watch dismantled? I would need the watchmaker to take a picture of the movement, then send me the movement picture (with serial number) to make sure that it is a Zenith movement (it should be a 655 caliber). Once confirmed, I could organize a logistic pick up of the movement from the watchmaker at his convenience. I would exceptionally perform a complete service of the movement only and return it to your watchmaker so that he can finalize the intervention. I would offer the logistic and technical interventions at no cost to you, as a gesture of goodwill.

I hope this proposal will meet your approval. Our teams remain at your disposal for any further assistance. I would also like to take the opportunity to share with you the contact information of our North American Brand President, Ellen Sorensen, who is available to speak with you at your convenience. Her contact information is noted below.

Faithfully yours,

Pierre PIFFETEAU

International Customer Service Manager

Copy: Mr Julien TORNARE – Zenith Chief Executive Officer
Mrs Ellen SORENSEN – Zenith President, North America.


----------



## HAP Construction

I just crossed Zenith off the list. If they can’t stand behind their product, I am not interested. That service proposal is the most convoluted thing I have ever heard of. Zenith makes watches. Take the dam thing apart for gods sake. I am sure they can figure it out.


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## TimeWellSpent

HAP Construction said:


> I just crossed Zenith off the list. If they can’t stand behind their product, I am not interested. That service proposal is the most convoluted thing I have ever heard of. Zenith makes watches. Take the dam thing apart for gods sake. I am sure they can figure it out.


That part I actually get for once. If they start servicing frankenwatches they’ll get themselves into trouble. So essentially saying that they service the movement but not the watch does make sense IMO.

What is a bit off is the fact that they did not want to open the watch, because I had told both the AD and the US service center that my watchmaker had opened the watch but could not service it because it was a Zenith in-house movement and that for that precise reason it would have to be sent to Zenith.

Of course the entire story of “not having parts” is a massive Nono, and I still don’t get how their own service center did not catch that this was not a Zenith case. Anyhow, at least I get a functioning watch back at some point - fingers crossed.


----------



## Eyeshield25

HAP Construction said:


> I just crossed Zenith off the list. If they can’t stand behind their product, I am not interested. That service proposal is the most convoluted thing I have ever heard of. Zenith makes watches. Take the dam thing apart for gods sake. I am sure they can figure it out.


Yeah no.. It takes one lawsuit to go sideways. They are not your local watchmaker to take apart whatever watch you want them to.


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## FishingForFishies

I think the assumption that “if it’s not our case, who knows what’s going on there, better not mess with it” is totally understandable. 

Glad they replied in a way that I would find to be an okay compromise. They also acknowledged the errors in how the prior communications happen. 

Outcome has restored some lost faith in Zeniths customer service.


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## joshd2012

TimeWellSpent said:


> Update: Great news! "Was lange währt wird endlich gut" as the German-speaking Swiss would say! I just received a very satisfying and solomonic email from Zenith's International Customer Service Manager. Since I shared my story I also copy-paste the letter in full so you can form an opinion. The case was indeed not original Zenith, which explains - at least in part - what led to this episode. I am very glad (a) that Zenith responded, (b) that they acknowledged several mistakes on their end and apologized for the experience, and (c) that they proposed a solution that I very much appreciate.


I'm glad (and surprised) that they offered to work with your local watchmaker to service the movement. That's not exactly something you can throw in a bubble mailer and ship overseas. Hopefully this ends well, but at least things are moving in the right direction.


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## TimeWellSpent

joshd2012 said:


> I'm glad (and surprised) that they offered to work with your local watchmaker to service the movement. That's not exactly something you can throw in a bubble mailer and ship overseas. Hopefully this ends well, but at least things are moving in the right direction.


Well, they specified that they would organize the logistics, so not too concerned. I am sure they ship movements around all the time and there is some type of specialized packaging for it that they can provide.


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## Nathan356

While it is clear they mishandled the situation initially, I think their offer is quite generous. Most watch companies would refuse to even touch a frankenwatch and probably would not service a loose movement either. One thing you might try now that you have their attention: reply back asking if they would also sell you a service case instead, to complete the watch properly to Zenith original spec. That would put the watch back to being "right", if that's even possible. It sounds like the entire reason they thought they didn't have the parts is because you sent them a case that didn't even belong to them and as a result they couldn't find it in their parts catalog.


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## WTSP

Well that certainly is a terrific outcome. It’s exceptional service really. I’d be tempted to ask if it would be possible to pay to have a genuine case installed, but maybe they don’t have any stock.


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## J__D

HAP Construction said:


> I just crossed Zenith off the list. If they can’t stand behind their product, I am not interested. That service proposal is the most convoluted thing I have ever heard of. Zenith makes watches. Take the dam thing apart for gods sake. I am sure they can figure it out.


I feel you've not read the thread. 

I think they deserve to be slightly credited at least with finding ways around to solve the issue, rather than just reject like other bigger brands would in this situation (even if it took a bit of chasing around overall)


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## Hartmut Richter

J__D said:


> I feel you've not read the thread.
> 
> I think they deserve to be slightly credited at least with finding ways around to solve the issue, rather than just reject like other bigger brands would in this situation (even if it took a bit of chasing around overall)


Indeed, that is also my way of thinking. If they took the watch and opened it up, they would again leave themselves open if something went wrong. If the case is by them, then they ought to know how to deal with it and any new scratches, etc. are their fault. Some cases are tricky to open and it can be more difficult to open one you have no experience with. Also, if you open it up and find the movement damaged, it is easier to say that it is their fault since they opened it up in a stupid way. All this is unlikely but not impossible and, since Zenith are already going out of their way to please (others wouldn't touch it), they will make sure that they have themselves covered.

Hartmut Richter


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## gossler

Im glad to read that it all work out. Hopefully Zenith will improve its service center and maintenance for old and vintage watches. As that is a great apele of any high end watch brand. The Holy Trinity, AP, PP, VC will basically service any watch ever made by them. 

Last week I bought a new Zenith, and I was surprised to see these legal provision on the booklet that came with the watch.


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## EnoMarco

I'm genuinely surprised they responded at all. I'd say an acceptable solution given the circumstances.


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## J__D

gossler said:


> Im glad to read that it all work out. Hopefully Zenith will improve its service center and maintenance for old and vintage watches. As that is a great apele of any high end watch brand. The Holy Trinity, AP, PP, VC will basically service any watch ever made by them.
> 
> Last week I bought a new Zenith, and I was surprised to see these legal provision on the booklet that came with the watch.


Would be interesting to see if the others "legally" agree to anything over "any" age or whether they have legal terms too with a limited range. Zenith haven't changed their movements really for years, so I don't see any real issue


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## AMBIORIX

Hello TimeWellSpent,
Clearly the awnser is in your advantage.
From experience, many other brands out there would offer you this.
grtz,Dom


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## joshd2012

TimeWellSpent said:


> Well, they specified that they would organize the logistics, so not too concerned. I am sure they ship movements around all the time and there is some type of specialized packaging for it that they can provide.


Sorry for being unclear. I meant that it was impressive that they would offer to take care of the logistics because it would be a much more laborious task than throwing the movement in a padded envelope.


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## TimeWellSpent

Update: As requested by Zenith, I asked my trusted watch repair shop to open the caseback and take a picture of the moment. It is indeed a Cal 655, which is a relief at this point. We requested pickup of the movement. I also asked Zenith about the possibility to purchase the original case and crown from them to bring the watch back to spec, as a couple of commenters recommended. Curious about both Zenith’s response and the logistics of this operation (as was my watch repair shop).


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## TimeWellSpent

Update: Just received a reply from Zenith. Sharing below for transparency and to continue the horologic telenovela-type story.

Not the reply I hoped for with regard to spare parts, but actually IMO the right reply, and for sure one that reinstates confidence in the brand. I would be sending them a movement and a dial and hope for a full watch. Keeping everything together and being restrictive about spare parts assures Zenith that their watches are not "stitched together" (aka a Frankenwatch consisting of their own parts).

I must say that I am very surprised and pleased about the service I am receiving now. That is what I would have expected from a luxury watch brand (or, after this experience and reading WUS member comments: what I would have _hoped _for).

I'll wait and see until my watch gets put back together, but right now I may again consider Zenith again as a brand to look into in the future. They are having their service issues, particularly in the US, but they seem to make a serious effort to improve things. Thoughts?



_Dear Mr <TimeWellSpent>,

Thank you for your message. I am contacting my colleagues to arrange pick-up of your Zenith movement, so that he can be organized with Mr <Watchrepairshop> directly. As agreed, I will offer the logistic and technical interventions at no cost to you.

Regarding your second request, we do have all spare parts for references 30.1125.655 and 17.1125.655. Unfortunately, we only provide case or movement (with their individual numbers) in exchange against a defective or damaged original part with matching number, and for very specific cases. As previously mentioned, a Zenith movement with a non Zenith case is not considered as a Zenith watch. And same for Zenith case with non Zenith movement.

We remain at your disposal should you need any further assistance.

Best regards,

*PIERRE PIFFETEAU*

CUSTOMER SERVICE MANAGER_


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## Hartmut Richter

I would say that all this sounds plausible and what I would have expected. You only get a new case for an old one - or a new movement for an old one. All this is to avoid frankenising and "replication" (split up a watch, get the "missing" part for each bit and you have made two out of one). The bottom line is that yours will always be a frankenwatch but it is better than having a completely defective frankenwatch that you can't use.

Hartmut Richter


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## Mikeh0109

TimeWellSpent said:


> Update: Just received a reply from Zenith. Sharing below for transparency and to continue the horologic telenovela-type story.
> 
> Not the reply I hoped for with regard to spare parts, but actually IMO the right reply, and for sure one that reinstates confidence in the brand. I would be sending them a movement and a dial and hope for a full watch. Keeping everything together and being restrictive about spare parts assures Zenith that their watches are not "stitched together" (aka a Frankenwatch consisting of their own parts).
> 
> I must say that I am very surprised and pleased about the service I am receiving now. That is what I would have expected from a luxury watch brand (or, after this experience and reading WUS member comments: what I would have _hoped _for).
> 
> I'll wait and see until my watch gets put back together, but right now I may again consider Zenith again as a brand to look into in the future. They are having their service issues, particularly in the US, but they seem to make a serious effort to improve things. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> _Dear Mr <TimeWellSpent>,
> 
> Thank you for your message. I am contacting my colleagues to arrange pick-up of your Zenith movement, so that he can be organized with Mr <Watchrepairshop> directly. As agreed, I will offer the logistic and technical interventions at no cost to you.
> 
> Regarding your second request, we do have all spare parts for references 30.1125.655 and 17.1125.655. Unfortunately, we only provide case or movement (with their individual numbers) in exchange against a defective or damaged original part with matching number, and for very specific cases. As previously mentioned, a Zenith movement with a non Zenith case is not considered as a Zenith watch. And same for Zenith case with non Zenith movement.
> 
> We remain at your disposal should you need any further assistance.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> *PIERRE PIFFETEAU*
> 
> CUSTOMER SERVICE MANAGER_


Sounds like the overall result is generally positive.

I wonder if it is worth updating the headline as it now feels slightly misleading without all of the context in this thread and someone just browsing through the forum might make assumptions without taking the time to read the rest of the thread.


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## kc2hje

I think it kinda stinks, the watch is broken I could see the OP having to sign a waver prior to opening but this seems childish at this point. Cases take wear and damage could have been the OP could have been the prior owner. Case takes a hard hit and becomes non fixable. Toss the face and movement or swap to another case. I could see them offering to swap the case at a cost to put the watch back in full OEM parts. But to me if the dial and movement are 100% legit this is less then ideal.

chris


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## WatchWalker

Just read this whole story and my conclusion is that Zenith is going way beyond the customer service level you”d get elsewhere when presenting a frankenwatch for service. As in this case, it is not genuine Zenith, technically spoken this is not a frankenwatch but a fake watch, despite containing a genuine movement.
When purchasing a second hand watch, the buyer has a responsibility too, something I see totally overlooked in this thread.

At this stage my esteem for Zenith‘s approach has seriously increased opposite to the efforts of the OP in getting things fixed while neglecting his own role. No offense, just saying.

To the OP, you could start looking to find a similar watch, even if damaged or broken, but completely original and assemble that case. Or settle by the fact you made a learnful mistake by not being sufficiently diligent when purchasing. Please stop holding the manufacturer hostage for that mistake.


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## Crosspolytope

Is it possible to change the title of this thread as to not give the wrong impression for those not wanting to read through to the end?


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## Hartmut Richter

I will leave that at the discretion of the original poster. The UPDATED already shows that things have not remained quite the same.

Hartmut Richter


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## TimeWellSpent

Crosspolytope said:


> Is it possible to change the title of this thread as to not give the wrong impression for those not wanting to read through to the end?


This issue is not resolved yet. The movement has indeed been picked up a couple of weeks ago.

Happy to provide another update - also in the notes upfront - once the watch has been repaired. However, I do want to point out that over the course of almost two years I was repeatedly left with the impression that Zenith will not service my watch, which had NOT been identified by Zenith as Frankenwatch - not by their AD, not by their US service center (who had recwived the same watch twice for review), and not by their service department in Switzerland. Also, based on multiple other comments in the threat, it seems like there continue to be service issues at Zenith. Good news is that they are starting to take concerns seriously it seems and in my case it looks like things will turn out positively … but never praise the day before the evening.


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## TimeWellSpent

Last update: I finally got my watch back yesterday. I picked it up at my trusted watch repair shop.

I have to admit that the ending of this odyssey has left me with a strange impression.

To recap, Zenith had offered as a solution that I would have to drop the watch at my watchmaker, who then would get contacted for the logistics of just picking up the movement. Zenith said they did not want to open the case back but promised to service the movement, and my watchmaker would then have to put the movement back into the (non-Zenith) case. For that reason they could not pick up the watch from my home and I could not send it directly to the Zenith service center in Switzerland.

My watchmaker told me yesterday Zenith organized the logistics, however they picked up THE ENTIRE WATCH. Meaning, the Zenith service center did indeed open the caseback (despite their earlier claims that they could not do so) removed the movement, serviced it, and shipped the entire watch back to my watchmaker and not to me directly. My watchmaker said that “there were no issues except for one strange call where the person from Zenith clearly had no idea what was going on” (quoting here). No clue why they had to make the process so complicated for both me and my watchmaker. 🤷

The second thing that seems extremely odd is that they only included documentation that stated “repair”. It did not mention what was done to the watch or that the movement has been serviced. When I had sent watches to IWC and JLC I would get a detailed break down of all the interventions. So now I have no proof that the movement has in fact been serviced.

Lastly, and this is what gets me, the movement seems to work worse now than before the PR broke down. When putting the watch on the Ace Timer, frequencies are inconsistent and fluctuate from -1 seconds to over 6 seconds gain per minute. Very clueless what might cause this but the watch did not behave this way before. Attaching some pictures.

Nothing else came with the watch. No letter, no further explanation, no “we did this as a courtesy”.

At this point I am glad I’ve got the watch back and that it is in working order. And hey, Zenith did not charge me one cent, which is absolutely awesome. So I guess, particularly given that this is not an original Zenith, I got more than lucky that they even helped me. Somewhat better communication still would have gone a long way.


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## WTSP

Zenith having inconsistent communication and documentation is true to form in my experience. It’s nice that they did everything free of charge though! I hope that the performance of the movement settles over time. Hopefully it’s just a matter of getting through an initial breaking in period. In any case, they corrected the power reserve hand, which is a big plus.


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## Pj66

Thanks for the update. When I first read this I crossed off the tri-color Zenith chrono I have been lusting after. In my opinion, given the circumstances, they did right by you and that tri-color is back on my list. In my experience, internal communication is bad with some companies specially the larger ones and that would explain the oddities you experienced. The communication that the original person that contacted you with the details was somewhat never fully communicated to those who are supposed to work with your watch. It happens more often than you think, some things are lost in internal communications. Glad you have your watch back, enjoy!


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## Hartmut Richter

Well, what I can see is daily rates in three positions of 0, +2 and +4 seconds a day. One might call that "worse than before" - but I presume it was new then. Most recently, I thought that it wasn't working at all so that's a big improvement. And those rates aren't really anything to complain about greatly IMO.....

Hartmut Richter


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## TimeWellSpent

Hartmut Richter said:


> Well, what I can see is daily rates in three positions of 0, +2 and +4 seconds a day. One might call that "worse than before" - but I presume it was new then. Most recently, I thought that it wasn't working at all so that's a big improvement. And those rates aren't really anything to complain about greatly IMO.....
> 
> Hartmut Richter


 I agree with you a 1000% - this is a massive improvement over not working at all and writing off the watch. 

Helmut Richter, thank you btw for your advice and encouragement along the way! Not sure I would have reached out to Zenith and followed without your words of support.


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## Hartmut Richter

TimeWellSpent said:


> I agree with you a 1000% - this is a massive improvement over not working at all and writing off the watch.
> 
> Helmut Richter, thank you btw for your advice and encouragement along the way! Not sure I would have reached out to Zenith and followed without your words of support.


You're welcome! That's what we're here for.

Enjoy the watch.

Hartmut Richter


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## thedose

Oh man!

I have this same watch, except the stainless version: 03.1125.685 ; and I also have experienced a similar issue.











My Cal 685 just stopped working one day while on vacation last year, I tried winding it up, and the power reserve indicator just kept going left (went beyond full and stopped @ 55), although I was able to power up the reserve de marche indicator, the movement still wouldn't tick, nor would the seconds hand sweep, so I knew something was up. Watch no longer works, and I suspect it may be a similar issue to yours.

I've been meaning to get it serviced, but after reading all of the negatives around Zenith servicing, especially out of the NJ location (I am stateside) -- I am almost at the point where I might just swallow my tongue and buy a brand new watch altogether, and just move completely away from Zenith. Really sad, that it has come to this, because I absolutely love my Reserve de Marche, and it is in tip top condition (minus the movement issue of course).

I doubt I could sell it in it's current condition, and I wouldn't want to burden any buyers with having to get it fixed, only to suffer at the hands of Zenith...

I've been looking at JLC, but man, I don't really want to spend $10k on a timepiece... And no, I also don't want used/pre owned

Was also looking at Rolex, but the difficulties of just getting on their waitlist have totally put me off. Looked at Omega and Grand Seiko as well, but I think my main issue is that I am so drawn to complications, that although Omega and GS are absolutely great value, I fear I will get bored with how simplistic their (amazing) pieces are...

I feel like I am floating in space, searching


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## TimeWellSpent

thedose said:


> Oh man!
> 
> I have this same watch, except the stainless version: 03.1125.685 ; and I also have experienced a similar issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Cal 685 just stopped working one day while on vacation last year, I tried winding it up, and the power reserve indicator just kept going left (went beyond full and stopped @ 55), although I was able to power up the reserve de marche indicator, the movement still wouldn't tick, nor would the seconds hand sweep, so I knew something was up. Watch no longer works, and I suspect it may be a similar issue to yours.
> 
> I've been meaning to get it serviced, but after reading all of the negatives around Zenith servicing, especially out of the NJ location (I am stateside) -- I am almost at the point where I might just swallow my tongue and buy a brand new watch altogether, and just move completely away from Zenith. Really sad, that it has come to this, because I absolutely love my Reserve de Marche, and it is in tip top condition (minus the movement issue of course).
> 
> I doubt I could sell it in it's current condition, and I wouldn't want to burden any buyers with having to get it fixed, only to suffer at the hands of Zenith...
> 
> I've been looking at JLC, but man, I don't really want to spend $10k on a timepiece... And no, I also don't want used/pre owned
> 
> Was also looking at Rolex, but the difficulties of just getting on their waitlist have totally put me off. Looked at Omega and Grand Seiko as well, but I think my main issue is that I am so drawn to complications, that although Omega and GS are absolutely great value, I fear I will get bored with how simplistic their (amazing) pieces are...
> 
> I feel like I am floating in space, searching


I would give it a shot if I were you. Zenith seems to be working on the service issues, and my case was particularly challenging as my watch did not have the original case.


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## triwater

Just thought I would update regarding my service experience (originally posted in this thread). Sent it off to NJ 1/22, got it back today, so 6 month turn time.

Full movement service, replaced seals and pushers, ultrasonic cleaning, hands and crystal replaced, I think? The description was a bit vague but looks to be the case (hand lume much brighter than arabics, but honestly don’t remember if it was like that previous). 

Haven’t put it on the timegrapher yet, so we’ll see, but looks fantastic. 

$700.00 shipped both ways with a nice black case to boot. Overall very satisfied. Anyway, just FYI.


































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hartmut Richter

Thanks for the feedback! Nice to hear some good things about the NJ service centre.....

Hartmut Richter


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