# Franck Muller Whats Your Take?



## KishanDhakan (May 2, 2013)

Franck Muller watches.

Recently i went to a local dealer to value my Franck Muller Conquistador King Cronograph. I was shocked when he quoted me the value as 20% of the RRP. My concern over this watch are whether to keep this watch or get rid of it? Is the brand that bad?? Is it not highend? I see no posts about Franck Muller discussions anywhere on the forum. Will the brand survive or go bust losing my watch value completely? When people see the watch they will be like why you bought a Franck Muller out of all the rest??? This all is putting me off to own the watch. Personally i love the watch i was even considering a Long Island or a crazy hour but now i dont know. Just need help from you watch collectors here as you all know watches better than i do.


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## Matty01 (Sep 6, 2011)

Have a squizz at sales forums here and perhaps elsewhere to get a guide for secondhand resale value. It nay be 50-70% of the original retail. Perhaps the place you sougt a valuation had a sense you wanted to upgrade and was lowballing?


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## YunaRikku (Mar 22, 2010)

can we see the picture of the watch? 20% of the retail price is too low i m sure u can fetch higher in ebay xP


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Do a search, I've written a bit. Francesco was given the title, "The Master of Deception", about 12 years ago.


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## Dancing Fire (Aug 16, 2011)

IMO...He is a "master remodifier"


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## kylemacca01 (Mar 20, 2011)

If you like the watch keep it and dont worry about its second hand value. Its a nice piece, maybe not truely high end but if you like it thats all that matters.

If you want another than take advantage of the low resale prices and get a used one rather than new.


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## metallic (Jan 8, 2012)

The brand has lost its luster many years ago. Knowledgable dealers will not give you much for it. Better off just keeping it or trying to sell it yourself.


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## heuerolexomega (May 12, 2012)

I think is high end but is not in the top 10 brands. So if it were me I would sell it and save to get the watch I really want. Now if you absolutely love the watch then keep it, because at the end you have to be happy with the watch. I suspect you are not happy with it, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.


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## GETS (Dec 8, 2011)

If someone offered me 20% of what I paid for a watch - or anything close to 20% of the MSRP I didn't pay - I would rather give it to charity than sell it. Seriously.


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## lp1974 (Mar 29, 2013)

20% is way too low. for FM, 40-60%
i feel. provided its not quartz! if im not wrong, FM has some pricey quartz thats way way overpriced RPP.

frank muller was the fad watch 5-7 years ago. its priced high end no doubt but not much of a horological or commercial history. 

there is always a risk when a fad brand appears, they go super overpriced for 2-6 years then the market is suddenly flooded with preowned that people are eager to disposed of. prices dive overnight. without a sizeable collector or watch fan base... watch dealers knows this too well. from where i was, panerai became the fad that took over FM.

panerai is going through the same fir the last few years. trendy ones going for it. we shall see if it last. but panerai dies have abit of history more than FM.
as far as i know, imho


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## vintage_collectionneurs (Jul 11, 2016)

I think Franck Muller watches are excellent to keep. I bought one for the style and intend to keep it for the long term. Given the brand's short history, I think there will eventually be a market for the pieces in the long run.


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## mpalmer (Dec 30, 2011)

Franck Muller was hot a few years ago, and perhaps justifiably so, due to its unique aesthetic, back when so many brands were using ETA. As high end brands, mid range brands, and even some affordables have moved to manufacture movements, I think the enthusiasm for this brand resettled in other places. 

All that said, there is no other dial quite like a Franck Muller, so if you really like the dial aesthetic, it may well be worth paying for.


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## Uhrmensch (Apr 28, 2015)

mpalmer said:


> I think the enthusiasm for this brand resettled in other places.


That's certainly a polite way of putting it. :-d And to be fair there is a lot not to like - the exploding numbers aren't exactly original (popular at the beginning of the last century and into the 1920s), the case shape was done before (albeit Franck's version clearly being on steroids), and my personal bugbear: how can a watch as thick as a sandwich, with "Master of Complications" engraved on the back, not have a quickset date function?! All in all, arguably a somewhat crass/vulgar offering at an astronomical and comical RRP.

On the plus side: I haven't tired of that dial despite several years of ownership, the blued hands are basically perfect, the curved crystal, the lume, dropped it from c. 2 meters height onto the floor and it's good as new (7750 workhorse inside if I recall correctly), hey I even like the vanilla-scented rubber strap! Does anyone buy them RRP? Dunno, not me. Casablanca Chrono, one of my favourites. Cheers.


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## Horological_Dino (Feb 27, 2015)

FM watches do have a coherent design DNA which can be quite attractive but I'm not sure whether putting a Platinum rotor on an ETA movement with a mediocre finish can be considered high end.
The Cartier Cintree shaped watches imo are much more of a classic and of higher quality.


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## dantan (Dec 16, 2014)

I checked out some Franck Mullers today. 

I kept getting told that Franck Muller is a Top 10 Watch Brand in the world. 

I was really surprised as I would not even rank them in the top 30!


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## Ugly-Nugget (Feb 12, 2013)

KishanDhakan said:


> Personally i love the watch i was even considering a Long Island or a crazy hour but now i dont know. Just need help from you watch collectors here as you all know watches better than i do.


I have quoted your words here, this is the number one rule in true watch collecting.....buy what YOU LIKE, not what others tell you you should like. Personally I like the looks of some of FM watches. They have a styling that you can usually tell from 10' away what the owner is wearing.

Take this new information you learnt and use it to your advantage, if you like FM and wanted a couple other models, now you know that you need a serious discount from a new one to move forward or look for a gently loved one. I love this about some of the less loved brands, discounts at all levels can be had because the masses seem to think if it's not a forum sweetheart to stay away.

The one thing about your current watch is if you haven't sold you haven't lost anything. You have only lost when you have sold too low. If the dealer is only offering 20% of what you paid keep it, as you have said you love it and there is nothing better in the watch world than owning watches you love.


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## dantan (Dec 16, 2014)

I only showed very slight interest in a Dream Blue (or was it Blue Dream) model. 

Immediately, the Store Supervisor offered me 30% off the full RRP of the Watch, and then a complimentary spare Strap, and then a little bit more off the Watch. 

I was actually in the Store for a fair amount of time. 

They had three Staff Members there, and not one Customer went in whilst I was there, and I was there for over half an hour. 

Sydney is a busy place, and every Watch Store that I went to had Customers and not five minutes would go by without Customers coming in or going out. 

I think that some of the designs of Franck Muller are interesting, but there are enough question marks to concern me. 

I agree with some of the comments here from wise Members:

Perhaps buying preowned is a good idea. 

You haven’t lost money until or unless you have sold your Watch at a sizeable loss. 

If buying new, make sure you get it at a really good price.


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## GETS (Dec 8, 2011)

dantan said:


> I checked out some Franck Mullers today.
> 
> I kept getting told that Franck Muller is a Top 10 Watch Brand in the world.
> 
> I was really surprised as I would not even rank them in the top 30!


A little bit harsh. They might squeeze into the top 30 (not by much though).


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## m0c021 (Feb 17, 2014)

My take is wear whatever you like.

You don't let others dictate how you dress or what brand of appliance you use. No matter what the subject is, there are always brands that don't retain value as well but it doesn't mean they aren't good or as good. When you shop of appliances, you should be looking for what appeals to you aestheically, financially, and functionally. Same should be applied to watches. What others think shouldn't dictate how one lives his or her life. Like someone else said, if you love FM then get it second hand. Just because it doesn't retain value as well as other brands doesn't mean you have to be on the losing end of it.


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## dbostedo (Feb 26, 2014)

m0c021 said:


> You don't let others dictate how you dress or what brand of appliance you use.


Wait, wait, wait.... are you telling me that the many hours I spend on Appliance-U-Seek getting advice on my Sub-Zero refrigerator, Miele dishwasher, and Viking range is all for naught?


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## m0c021 (Feb 17, 2014)

dbostedo said:


> Wait, wait, wait.... are you telling me that the many hours I spend on Appliance-U-Seek getting advice on my Sub-Zero refrigerator, Miele dishwasher, and Viking range is all for naught?


Not if it's what you like Miele has my vote in case you want more opinions.

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## Jcher (Nov 26, 2017)

It’s good to research for information however at the end of the day you have to buy what you like. Very important that when you decide to make the purchase to use you research to buy correctly, i.e. price, new/used and outlet.


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## De Wolfe (Jul 23, 2015)

Why do you care about others if you love it? Even the value, you have, why sell it at 20%, just keep it and enjoy it.

Few of my watches are not popular with "enthusiasts", but they mean a lot to me, so enjoy it in good health.


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## WTSP (May 6, 2012)

We’ve got to stop posting these agressive “buy what you like” comments every time somebody asks for some input on a decision. People underestimate the extent to which their preferences and decisions are influenced by their peer groups and various social currents. WUS who request input are creating opportunities for exchanges and conversations. “Buy what you want, why do you need anybody to tell you what to do” just puts an abrupt stop to that.

Franck Muller has a strong aesthetic, but some people may not realize the extent to which they rely on generic movements and apply absurd markups to their MSRP. This is a good brand to be getting opinions on before buying IMHO.


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## m0c021 (Feb 17, 2014)

But we are addressing exactly what the OP asked. Sell it for 20% of its MSRP because other people seem to think its not worth much or keep it because OP likes it. The wear what you like is literally saying to keep it and wear it since OP expressed fondness of the watch.

I think we all know the influence our peers and society has on our decision making, even for watches. Maybe we are just trying to say that to our surprise, our peers don't actually care. No one call tell the difference between my Citizen, Oceanus, Omega, AP, etc etc.


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## Split sec (Nov 3, 2013)

Hello.
I give my opinion, which, please, take with reserve.
First of all, why you wanted it to evaluate? Why? Did you wanted to sale it or you just wanted to provoke them? And answer you got, why you take it as a relevant? If they shoud offer you double originl price, what would you think? Is Chrono 24 (or Ebay or any other) not good for you if realy wanted to valuate it? And, why should you rid of it? Do you like it? If the valuation should be satisfying, would you ask the same question? So, my understanding is that you want buy expensive and sale cheap? It is the fact that watches are not investment. Other fact is thet just some keep (relativly) the price. In this light, evaluate your watch. Personaly, I should keep it.
"Is the brand that bad?? Is it not highend?" 
Have you ever take a look on FM site? If what you saw does not give an answer, then better find some other occupation. And this is the answer on is it "Haute Horlogerie"


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## Split sec (Nov 3, 2013)

Hello.
I give my opinion, which, please, take with reserve.
First of all, why you wanted it to evaluate? Why? Did you wanted to sale it or you just wanted to provoke them? And answer you got, why you take it as a relevant? If they shoud offer you double originl price, what would you think? Is Chrono 24 (or Ebay or any other) not good for you if realy wanted to valuate it? And, why should you rid of it? Do you like it? If the valuation should be satisfying, would you ask the same question? So, my understanding is that you want buy expensive and sale cheap? It is the fact that watches are not investment. Other fact is thet just some keep (relativly) the price. In this light, evaluate your watch. Personaly, I should keep it.
"Is the brand that bad?? Is it not highend?" 
Have you ever take a look on FM site? If what you saw does not give an answer, then better find some other occupation. And this is the answer on is it "Haute Horlogerie"


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## korneevy (May 17, 2012)

Split sec said:


> ...Have you ever take a look on FM site? And this is the answer on is it "Haute Horlogerie"


That's a score mate - if you really really believe that whatever the brand says on their website and marketing comms to be 100% accurate, I've got not one, not two, but many many bridges for you to buy.

To OP:

FM is a prime example of overpriced, over-sized, ultra-styled junk that made its way into the watch market in the hay days before the 2008 crush. Sure some people still like them - if you are one of them, I'd def hang onto the piece. If you do want to move into more tasteful waters, try selling it directly although it will have its own complications (pun intended) but you'd def get more than 20% back... prob close to 30-35% if you manage to come across another motivated FM enthusiast (and God knows that's an almost non existent constituency as things stand now)


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## Split sec (Nov 3, 2013)




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## korneevy (May 17, 2012)

Split sec said:


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> 
> 
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Do I even need to mention that this Snyper Tourbillion has a FLASHLIGHT? That should surely make it a higher haute horologie than pretty much anything else out there.

Ok I am joking of course.

Every other brand out there has a high end offering, stupidly priced for chest-pumping street cred purposes, outsourcing all but putting in spring bars. Not hard to do, been done many times over etc. If they sell 5 of them year, it's a party...

FM's bread and butter, ignoring for a moment the "Master of Compilations" BS and those pièce de résistance tourbillions mainly created for cataloging purposes and web-site graphics, is ETA and quartz watches, such as the one the OP is asking about.

And that's where they truly shine as overpriced, over-styled, over-sized junk.


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## Ugly-Nugget (Feb 12, 2013)

korneevy said:


> FM's bread and butter, ignoring for a moment the "Master of Compilations" BS and those pièce de résistance tourbillions mainly created for cataloging purposes and web-site graphics, is ETA and quartz watches, such as the one the OP is asking about.
> 
> And that's where they truly shine as overpriced, over-styled, over-sized junk.


I don't think anybody here is debating the fact they may be over priced ETA based watches, but that is not really the question. Selling at an 80% loss is adding insult to injury after paying retail. If he likes the watch don't sell it and loose that much money but keep it and enjoy it, and with the new information (to him) buy FM watches a little more strategically if that is what he likes.

I would not classify them as junk though, that would be saying all high priced watches that use ETA are junk and that would be a slippery slope. The list of brands that use ETA and charge a large sum of money will cut into some well respected brands. Panerai? IWC? U.N.? are these junk.

The styling of FM is definitely not for every one but because the styling is not to your liking does not make them junk. They may not be for you maybe but this is why I say buy what you like because there is all sort of people that will shoot this brand down for the same reasons and this seems to be more of a style thing.


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## eddiea (Mar 26, 2006)

Ugly-Nugget said:


> I don't think anybody here is debating the fact they may be over priced ETA based watches, but that is not really the question. Selling at an 80% loss is adding insult to injury after paying retail. If he likes the watch don't sell it and loose that much money but keep it and enjoy it, and with the new information (to him) buy FM watches a little more strategically if that is what he likes.
> 
> I would not classify them as junk though, that would be saying all high priced watches that use ETA are junk and that would be a slippery slope. The list of brands that use ETA and charge a large sum of money will cut into some well respected brands. Panerai? IWC? U.N.? are these junk.
> 
> The styling of FM is definitely not for every one but because the styling is not to your liking does not make them junk. They may not be for you maybe but this is why I say buy what you like because there is all sort of people that will shoot this brand down for the same reasons and this seems to be more of a style thing.


Agree..
Old thread, nonetheless ...
FM , a different strokes for different folks kind of watch no doubt , one look at the Aeternitas Mega or Grand Central Tourbillon however and some may get a clue on what _haute horlogerie _is all about .


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## seanc01 (Jun 15, 2020)

Maybe not a popular take.. But, FM really was "THE THING" for a while. But for the most part they are like a tom of micro brands that while they are technically still around. Nobody really cares any more. Thinking companies that made BIG splashes like Kobold..

But also, as they were "the Thing", hugely known and regarded in the 90s they have become somewhat passé and out of favor. (I am not going to say "fad watch" I will say "fashion watch") . But in a lot of ways, the victim of there immense and relatively short period of massive success. Still very nice pieces and if you like it then keep it.

But, the thing I would point out is if you have had the watch for a significant period. And got a 20% off when purchased. With typical sell prices rising every year. 20% of today's retail and how overpriced they tend to be it could actually be what you paid originally.. I could also see that if they had a resurgence of popularity, they recould break out of that "moment of time" flash and become known as "a long established brand"

I have always lusted for a salmon dial FM.. maybe someday!


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## Sticky2 (9 mo ago)

I purchased a rose gold 1 out of 18 Franck Muller Vanguard Koi last year. The watch is absolutely jaw dropping IMO and I have no other watch in my collection I enjoy more.

Apparently the brand fell out of fashion somewhat a few years ago but so what? The Vanguard series in particular is awesome and offers wrist presence few can even approach let alone match.

Sometimes you need to just set your own trend and not just follow what is hot at the time.

I personally enjoy the brand and the designs which don’t follow the crowd.

For reference:


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## elconquistador (Jul 13, 2010)

Pick a different hobbie. It's time to realize watchmaking wasn't your thing. 

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## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

This may be helpful in understanding FM







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## Karlisnet (Feb 20, 2016)

I love his early -and old-school- models. Here my belove 7000cc


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## Cincy2 (May 3, 2020)

korneevy said:


> To OP:
> 
> FM is a prime example of overpriced, over-sized, ultra-styled junk that made its way into the watch market in the hay days before the 2008 crush. Sure some people still like them - if you are one of them, I'd def hang onto the piece. If you do want to move into more tasteful waters, try selling it directly although it will have its own complications (pun intended) but you'd def get more than 20% back... prob close to 30-35% if you manage to come across another motivated FM enthusiast (and God knows that's an almost non existent constituency as things stand now)


In fairness to the brand, not all of their watches are outrageous. This tourbillon shows exquisite taste and refinement.


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