# Prestige of the Longines Brand?



## Trel

It's good to see a Longines sub-forum here. I've been a fan of the brand from a very young age. 

(I remember, as a small child, seeing "Longines" written above the splits and times when watching professional skiing on TV and assuming Longines was a different method of recording time for skiers and other such sports. As in, "Hermann Maier finished the course in 51.23 Longines, which tranlates to 1 minute, 18 seconds normal time." My father set me straight on that one after he stopped laughing. That's my earliest memory of the brand.)

My question, though, concerns the prestige of the brand. A few years ago, I bought my girlfriend (now, wife) a diamond Flagship Automatic as a this-should-tide-you-over-until-I-propose-to-you-later-so-don't-go-anywhere gift. I don't see too many Longines around and, while it's a famous brand, doesn't command the same prices as other established brands that use the same movements and materials.

Does the Swatch group not position, via prestige pricing, Longines as a upper-tier brand, like it's trying to do with Omega? Was it formerly prestigious and fell on hard times like many Swiss companies did during the quartz revolution of the 70's? Or is it simply a mid-tier brand that tends to release more elegant, dressier designs rather than the more sporting designs of other mid-tier companies like Oris or TAG-Heuer?

Non-watch-people who've heard of the brand are impressed by her watch, but that may also be because of the sparklies on its dial; I don't get the same sense of respect for the brand on the fora.


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## Watchbreath

It's was a prestige brand that fell on hard times like some others. Being
attached to Wittnauer was a big minus. Their comeback started about the 
late 90's, I used to price them against Baume & Mercier for a better value.


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## TimeSeeker

They are positioned above Tissot and Certina, Hamilton but just bellow Omega in the Swatch group.
I have always seen them as competition for Tag Heuer.


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## jimyritz

+1 on that---Good solid Swiss watch with a lot of models to fit a variety of tastes...Right below Omega and Breitling....

Cheers
Mike


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## Trel

Being attached to Wittnauer? Similarly to how Tissot and Omega produced a number of designs together?

I remember Omega ruined their own prestigious reputiation for a while in the 1980's by producing a good number of sub-par watches, but now they're starting to come back. Though I can't help but think that much of it just has to do with how it's priced.

Not that I'm complaining, but I can't help but feel that Longines seem priced a little low. Since pretty everyone uses ETA movements, the only things left to judge a brand on are materials used and degree of craftsmanship.

I look at a TAG, which is usually priced equally or higher to an equivalent Longines, and the TAG looks almost shoddy in comparison, using far less finishing on the movement.

It makes me realize that I had no idea of how much of a blow to Longines' reputation they'd suffered.


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## 23fengshui

Interesting read going here. I am an Omega regular but have always had an interest in other Swatch group brands like Longines and recently Mido. 

Seems that with Swatch calling the shots, Longines isn't really allowed to grow to its potential. I think the mid tier is a tough place to market luxury watches but for watch fanatics like me, that means Longines and Mido can offer some very intriguing pieces at good value.


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## Watchbreath

Nope, each brand is pretty much independent, if you have nitch, it's wise
to stick to it, unlike Omega with close to 600 referance numbers.
The words, "icon and iconic", are too often overused on watch forums, but in the case of the Mido Commander Chronometer, they really apply. |>


23fengshui said:


> Interesting read going here. I am an Omega regular but have always had an interest in other Swatch group brands like Longines and recently Mido.
> 
> Seems that with Swatch calling the shots, Longines isn't really allowed to grow to its potential. I think the mid tier is a tough place to market luxury watches but for watch fanatics like me, that means Longines and Mido can offer some very intriguing pieces at good value.


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## Trel

I can't imagine that Swatch doesn't have at least some sway over what the brands they own does. I'm sure it's not as hard-lined as "You will use sword hands, blued steel. The case will be no more than 41.2mm in width, ec etc etc" I'd imagine, though, if the Longines people said, "We'd like to re-cast our focus on plastic, digital sports watches," then the Swatch people would realize it would be a waste of an old, prestigious brand to compete with G Shock or something.

It just makes business sense to not have your sub-brands competing against one another and cannibalizing them.

Granted, my only view of the business has been from the front side of the glass case, but over the recent years, I have seen Longines move their offerings into a "casual luxury / casual dress" niche and moving away from a complete lineup of dress watches, tool watches, etc. (Similarly to how Omega now treats its own dress watches as nearly an afterthought in favor of its lineup of divers and chronos.)

I think that once Longines' reputation is re-established, say another ten years or so, and if current conditions and trends stay within predicted paths, then Swatch can start moving Longines upward in the luxury market via prestige pricing. 

At the moment, I don't think the market will accept a $5,000.- Longines, but given enough time people will accept the quality; judicious marketing and product placement will enhance the glamourous image of the brand; and the brand will be continue to be regarded as a 'smart buy'.


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## youcannotbeserious

Personally, I regard Longines as the ultimate value brand. 

No other company I have found provides the same combination of affordable price, history, and workmanship. I am truly amazed by the fact that the company uses the top grade ETA movements at the price. To the best of my knowledge, Tag Heuer, Raymond Weil, and Oris all use elabore grade for their non chronometer watches. I have owned all three of those brands and do not believe that the fit and finish on any aspect of their watches is the equal of Longines. I agree with the above statement that the watches are very comparable to Baume and Mercier, where Longines receives the edge in price.

As to a move up market, I think Swatch intends to keep Longines where it is. Europa Star had a great article about Longines some time ago. It was entitled, "A Rise in Strength without Moving Upmarket."


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## european.aristocrat

very good point. i believe that Longines are priced below their craftmanship. I just looked at some in a Tourneau AD. they are gorgeous, felt of high quality, and your point about ETA movements is true. since so many use them, the casing, design, etc. are what separate them.


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## european.aristocrat

Trel said:


> It's good to see a Longines sub-forum here. I've been a fan of the brand from a very young age.
> 
> (I remember, as a small child, seeing "Longines" written above the splits and times when watching professional skiing on TV and assuming Longines was a different method of recording time for skiers and other such sports. As in, "Hermann Maier finished the course in 51.23 Longines, which tranlates to 1 minute, 18 seconds normal time." My father set me straight on that one after he stopped laughing. That's my earliest memory of the brand.)
> 
> My question, though, concerns the prestige of the brand. A few years ago, I bought my girlfriend (now, wife) a diamond Flagship Automatic as a this-should-tide-you-over-until-I-propose-to-you-later-so-don't-go-anywhere gift. I don't see too many Longines around and, while it's a famous brand, doesn't command the same prices as other established brands that use the same movements and materials.
> 
> Does the Swatch group not position, via prestige pricing, Longines as a upper-tier brand, like it's trying to do with Omega? Was it formerly prestigious and fell on hard times like many Swiss companies did during the quartz revolution of the 70's? Or is it simply a mid-tier brand that tends to release more elegant, dressier designs rather than the more sporting designs of other mid-tier companies like Oris or TAG-Heuer?
> 
> Non-watch-people who've heard of the brand are impressed by her watch, but that may also be because of the sparklies on its dial; I don't get the same sense of respect for the brand on the fora.


Swatch is using Longines to elevate Omega. I sell products and sometimes we use a mid tier product to simply elevate a premium product. it is all part of branding.

if you go to the Swatch Group website, http://www.swatchgroup.com/en/brands_and_companies/watches_and_jewelry/high_range

you will see that they have the brands set in the tiers that they want them to be. Omega is with Breguet, Glashutte, Blancpain, et al. While Longines is a tier below with Rado and Union Glashutte. (Union Glashutte is like a German Longines. Great watches for the price. check out their products.)


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## european.aristocrat

23fengshui said:


> Interesting read going here. I am an Omega regular but have always had an interest in other Swatch group brands like Longines and recently Mido.
> 
> Seems that with Swatch calling the shots, Longines isn't really allowed to grow to its potential. I think the mid tier is a tough place to market luxury watches but for watch fanatics like me, that means Longines and Mido can offer some very intriguing pieces at good value.


Tru dat!


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## european.aristocrat

Trel said:


> I can't imagine that Swatch doesn't have at least some sway over what the brands they own does. I'm sure it's not as hard-lined as "You will use sword hands, blued steel. The case will be no more than 41.2mm in width, ec etc etc" I'd imagine, though, if the Longines people said, "We'd like to re-cast our focus on plastic, digital sports watches," then the Swatch people would realize it would be a waste of an old, prestigious brand to compete with G Shock or something.
> 
> It just makes business sense to not have your sub-brands competing against one another and cannibalizing them.
> 
> Granted, my only view of the business has been from the front side of the glass case, but over the recent years, I have seen Longines move their offerings into a "casual luxury / casual dress" niche and moving away from a complete lineup of dress watches, tool watches, etc. (Similarly to how Omega now treats its own dress watches as nearly an afterthought in favor of its lineup of divers and chronos.)
> 
> I think that once Longines' reputation is re-established, say another ten years or so, and if current conditions and trends stay within predicted paths, then Swatch can start moving Longines upward in the luxury market via prestige pricing.
> 
> At the moment, I don't think the market will accept a $5,000.- Longines, but given enough time people will accept the quality; judicious marketing and product placement will enhance the glamourous image of the brand; and the brand will be continue to be regarded as a 'smart buy'.


The Hayeks, Presidents of Swatch, Control all the brands. there are independent CEO's of each brand, but believe me; the senior hayek calls the shots.


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## Wisconsin Proud

Ive seen Longines and frankly they appear to be better watches than Omega. More detail, more style, and cost less.

You can't tell me Swatch can't make Omega for the same price as Longines. And dont give me that "co-ax" argument.

Only price puts Omega on a higher level.



youcannotbeserious said:


> Personally, I regard Longines as the ultimate value brand.
> 
> No other company I have found provides the same combination of affordable price, history, and workmanship. I am truly amazed by the fact that the company uses the top grade ETA movements at the price. To the best of my knowledge, Tag Heuer, Raymond Weil, and Oris all use elabore grade for their non chronometer watches. I have owned all three of those brands and do not believe that the fit and finish on any aspect of their watches is the equal of Longines. I agree with the above statement that the watches are very comparable to Baume and Mercier, where Longines receives the edge in price.
> 
> As to a move up market, I think Swatch intends to keep Longines where it is. Europa Star had a great article about Longines some time ago. It was entitled, "A Rise in Strength without Moving Upmarket."


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## european.aristocrat

TimeSeeker said:


> They are positioned above Tissot and Certina, Hamilton but just bellow Omega in the Swatch group.
> I have always seen them as competition for Tag Heuer.


that is a good analogy. they are swatch groups Tag Heuer.


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## kojo

QUOTE:"I can't help but feel that Longines seem priced a little low. "

Which is what makes Longines one of the best. ie proper value, as opposed to the inflated speculative pricing attached to Rollies and Omies.(don't worry, as soon as everyone latches on to Longines, the prices will soar.. ) and you'll be very happy you bought one..


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## peakxv

european.aristocrat said:


> Swatch is using Longines to elevate Omega. I sell products and sometimes we use a mid tier product to simply elevate a premium product. it is all part of branding.
> 
> if you go to the Swatch Group website, http://www.swatchgroup.com/en/brands_and_companies/watches_and_jewelry/high_range
> 
> you will see that they have the brands set in the tiers that they want them to be. Omega is with Breguet, Glashutte, Blancpain, et al. While Longines is a tier below with Rado and Union Glashutte. (Union Glashutte is like a German Longines. Great watches for the price. check out their products.)


 Ditto on the Union Glashutte, check out the Viro Date. that is a really nice looking watch.


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## eeek

Trel said:


> I think that once Longines' reputation is re-established, say another ten years or so, and if current conditions and trends stay within predicted paths, then Swatch can start moving Longines upward in the luxury market via prestige pricing.
> 
> At the moment, I don't think the market will accept a $5,000.- Longines, but given enough time people will accept the quality; judicious marketing and product placement will enhance the glamourous image of the brand; and the brand will be continue to be regarded as a 'smart buy'.





youcannotbeserious said:


> Personally, I regard Longines as the ultimate value brand.


These statements are a big part of why the Longines brand is not regarded as highly prestigious. Marketing is a very crucial and delicate part to why consumers perceive items to be luxurious. Price plays with our emotions and something either hard to attain or the extremes of unattainable, excites our curiosity and imagination. So, while Longines offers a very good product (which many here can attest to the quality), it is not put on the same level as "higher end" brands due to the perceived value versus its luxuriousness.

Put it this way....you wouldn't hear someone say you are "keep up with the Joneses" if you purchased a Longines.

But, obviously I'm not implying that you can just stick a higher price tag on a Longines and expect people to view it differently. Like Trel stated, it will take a lot of time and judicious marketing to get the brand to a higher level.


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## MarkB

Ordered a WWW from a local ad. Had a nice talk. He said the Swatch group has put down a very generous offer to buy Rolex, but it will not be accepted. As a result Omega is being pushed up to directly compete with Rolex and Longines is also being stepped up to fill the gap Omega leaves behind.

Longines is being given the freedom by Swatch group to bring back their rich history. Like the WWW model that is not a big seller. The ad also said he refuses to carry the complete Longines line-up as some models are more fashion and/or sale items and not in line with what he thinks Longines is supposed to be.

After I ordered he sent me a hand typed letter (written on a type writer) with the deal we made and the delivery estimate. A nice touch in line with Longines.

It should arrive end of June.


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## AmusedToD

Hello everyone, I'm a newbie here and this is my first post... Thank you for the nice insight into the Longines brand, and I kind of agree with some of you. I am considering buying a new watch in the near future, and I've narrowed my choice to 2 brands: Omega and Longines. Even though Omega's are a bit pricey, I believe Longines gives better quality for the price, and I'll probably go for one.


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## TitanCi

Good thread. My dad left a late 80s-early 90s Longines QWC, and although it's not my taste, it's a nice watch. I own Omega, and I really like Longines for its build, design, and attractive price. It seems as if Omega and Longines naturally go hand-in-hand. I see people looking at Longines as a second piece when they pick up an Omega. I would still consider it a prestigious, well designed and built brand!


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## Longines19AS

Lets face it, while these are tasty watches, none of these brands can really be classed as good value. If you can, look up the prices for a complete replacement ETA movement. I did this for the chrono movement in a TAG Monaco. Is anyone really going to tell me that even at the discounted prices that Monaco's are occasionally sold at, that the case, strap, sales markup and packaging of these movements really adds up to another 5 times ( approx)the price of buying a single movement? 

Don't forget too that the movement I looked at was a single one from a parts supplier, and thus already had a profit for that re-seller built in. Buying in bulk for manufacturing must be even cheaper. These watches are not value items, but are priced by marketing and hype. Even discounted watches must command a markup of 100% or more for the retailers. Just try asking what they would give as a trade in price for your pride and joy to see what I mean.

If you like a particular watch then buy it by all means, just don't expect it to be an investment. If you want a good value, good quality watch with an ETA movement in it have a look at the pricing of the SAS watches being offered on the top bar. Sold direct, these offer much more realistic pricing, but you won't be able to link the brand to Amelia, Bogie or Lindberg. You pays your money,...............................


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## upland

wisconsin proud said:


> ive seen longines and frankly they appear to be better watches than omega. More detail, more style, and cost less.
> 
> You can't tell me swatch can't make omega for the same price as longines. And dont give me that "co-ax" argument.
> 
> Only price puts omega on a higher level.


+ 1000000


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