# Grand Seiko Resale Value



## frank the tank

Hi,

I'm trying to decide between a few watches. I currently only have affordable watches under 700 but am looking to get a luxury watch under 10k as my next purchase.

SBGA029 or SBGA031 are some of the options that I am considering. One thing that is important to me is resale value. Of course I don't plan on selling the watch I buy but just in case I change my mind several years down the line.

Have you guys had a hard time selling your Grand Seikos? Do they retain their value?

Thanks!


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## Will_f

I sold my SBGX103 this week. I priced it for quick sale @ $2750. I paid $3000 for it new a couple of years ago.

It was a limited special addition and not that easy to acquire so it typically goes for a little more- say $2900. If you are concerned about resale buy a special addition with a limited production.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ten13th

Best way to know what's selling at what price is to use a tool like watchrecon.com to survey the price on pre-own market.


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## richy176

The GS range is still relatively new and there are relatively few used ones on the market. Just did a quick check on the chrono 24 site and there are just 11 pre owned GS listed and 103 new/unworn. Compare that to the Rolex Submariner where there are 1987 pre owned listed.

Holding value will also depend on what you pay now. Here in the UK it is very difficult to get much discount on a GS whereas in the USA it seems much easier. Just as an example, even paying full rrp I could save about 13% by buying from a USA AD and paying shipping and taxes here. If I got a decent discount then the saving would be greater.

As mentioned above, a limited edition should hold value better than a standard model. There were two limited editions of the diver, one with a green dial and one with a blue dial. I have not seen a green dial up for sale and only seen two of the blue dial so you would expect those to hold value very well.

Another way to look at it is this - if you buy the 029 at rrp and throw it away after 10 years then it will have cost you $1.56 a day - less that a cup of coffee. Any future value is just a bonus.


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## Nokie

> Best way to know what's selling at what price is to use a tool like watchrecon.com to survey the price on pre-own market.


Yup.


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## jdmfetish

let the 1st owner take the depreciation

and the Ti 031 is the better choice of the 2 


BDC has one for sale a couple months old $4900 sbga031 , he got it new , grab that


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## Heljestrand

I would imagine if you can be the second owner from a known WUS member you will be very happy


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## gatormac

Resale value and depreciation is interesting. Most of my watches are pre-owned. Many of them are no longer made. I know that I can resell the no-longer made ones for basically the same price I bought them for, particularly as long as I'm in no hurry. Over time I might even be able to make a small profit on them, although still probably at a small loss if you consider the value of time and money and loss of alternative investments- for that reason I never consider a watch as an investment, but trying to not lose much money on them is part of the game for me. 

However, I'm planning to buy a GS or two in a couple of months. I want these new. I know I'll take a loss on initial depreciation, but I want to experience the quality and sparkly of a new GS. However, when looking at depreciation and re-sale value of a new watch, there are a few things to look at. First, you know up front that if you have to sell relatively soon, like within a few years, you will definitely lose some money. The question is how much, what percentage loss? One of the mistakes at looking at depreciation, particularly with GS (and people using that to put GS down) is that you have to look at the actual market price. For most Swiss watches for instance, that would be the grey market price. Why? Because most reasonable people aren't going to pay the same price for a used watch that they could buy new through online grey market dealers. So the starting point for price is not really what the AD offers for price, but what the going price on the grey market is. So if you buy an Omega from an AD and MSRP of 4K, but the watch can be found at 3K at places like Jomashop, then you have already lost 1K at purchase, but really probably more like 1.5K, because if I can find a brand new watch for 3K from a reputable online dealer, then I'm not going to buy used from an unknown person for more than 500 less than that. That's my own judgement, but you have to figure most others have the same thought process, and used watch buyers have usually done some homework. Still, the 4k purchase is not a total loss, as you can still liquidate and get 2.5K back, sort of like a bank account on the wrist I say. Nevertheless, the better bet is grey market, but there some small risk that the watch will break sooner than the time period that would have been covered under manufacture warranty. But then again, a warranty watch could break shortly after warranty expires. Life carries some risk. 

GS is a bit different in that they are much lower volume, and there is no grey market to speak of. However, the question is- what is the actual lowest new market price of each model? This is interesting for GS, because I've seen Rolex types criticizing GS for being a huge loss in depreciation, quoting prices found online that may be MSRP but do not reflect that actual going price of the watch. Ask a US dealer, and their prices are usually lower than posted price. But theres more- online Japanese middle men dealers who offer watches at Japanese prices. The Yen has devalued tremendously over the last 5 years- I've watch GS watches that were once out of reach becoming much more affordable- it's great for a buyer, but if you bought your GS 5 years ago, you are going to take a big loss. So now we are talking currency exchange rates, which is very complicated. My guess though is that the Yen cannot keep falling at this rate, so I think now is a good time to buy. Then there is Europe- those Japanese dealers cannot ship to Europe from what I have heard, and if they did, the buyer would still get stuck with 20% VAT. So, in the UK and other places in Europe, it is harder to get watches at prices available in the US or Japan, but that also makes it easier to sell your watch there (if yo live there). This makes it more enticing for me- I'm American, partially living in the UK and planning to move there permanently. So I will buy my watch in the US or Japan, take it with me (probably wearing it) to the UK, and if I have to sell it later, most likely will sell in the UK. If you are in the US, you have to figure someone savvy enough about watches to want a pre-owned GS is going to be savvy enough to find the cheapest new price, be it Japan or US. So you need to be sure of the cheapest price, and then figure depreciation from there. 

For the most part it is all relative. All watches that are not limited editions will depreciate in the short-middle term. Some watches like Rolex have online markets which make selling quicker and easier, but they still depreciate if you sell within a few years. Like someone else mentioned, watch-recon is a good source, however many of the GS models are rare enough that you don't frequently find them on sale. Also, you need to look at trends. One desperate seller does not a trend make- just like a foreclosing house does not indicate the value of other houses on the street. 

Good luck.


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## Domo

In my experience, the resale of Grand Seiko has increased pretty noticeably over the years. The best resale is BY FAR limited editions (it doesn't matter which, really. Anything limited with a cool colour or funky dial seems to hold it's value) and the larger sport models seem to do very well. Also the internationally available models seem to hold their value better as well. Perhaps it's the greater exposure? I've noticed the obscure little "Master shop" JDM only models don't do as well, and that's probably exacerbated by having to buy them from Japan initially and the lesser discounts as you can't buy them from the larger stores. The chronographs don't do so well either but they are an acquired taste and have a very high sticker price to begin with. Precious metal is as always a big no-no for residual value.

I think you'd be quite safe with the divers, and especially with the titanium 031. There's fewer out there, it's more comfortable and the gold touches give it something *extra*


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## mt1tdi

I love my 031 as much as the day I got it like new from a WUS member local to me.

Go f roit, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.


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## m0c021

mt1tdi said:


> I love my 031 as much as the day I got it like new from a WUS member local to me.
> 
> Go f roit, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.


Took me a while but I believe you're trying to say "Go for it" but i definitely read it as "Go EFF it"


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## estrickland

In general, new watches are a losing proposition, except for popular and limited releases.

It comes down to how much you value a new watch. 

As a primarily vintage collector, it's not that big a deal to me, and there are several GS for which I'm waiting to find an opportunity in the secondary market.


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## shnjb

Just to provide some context, people always praise the resale value of Rolex and Patek but that's only true if you bought a long time ago; my recent Patek and Rolex purchases, if liquidated today, would result in a loss of 15-25%.


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## gatormac

shnjb said:


> my recent Patek and Rolex purchases, if liquidated today, would result in a loss of 15-25%.


Which is actually really good. Those are two brands that hold their value best, but like you said, you will still take a loss at least in the short term.

However, as Domo mentioned- a limited addition GS could hold 100% value if it is a highly desired model. For instance, I was looking at the SBGA127 limited edition. It appears to be sold out. The only way to get it is on the second hand market. If you had that watch, I'm sure you could sell it at 100%. I know I could sell my olive dial Halios at 100% of the new price and I purchased a used blue dial Halios at 100% new value. They sell fast on watchrecon. I bought a new (one of the last) SARB023 at nearly twice it's normal new price. I wanted that model and knew their was no other option.

So quite frankly, the BEST resale option (better than a standard model Rolex) is to take your time and find a hot limited edition model GS that you like. They do regular limited editions, so it's a frequent option.


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## camouflage

Grand Seiko is a real pain to sell, specially in Europe - at least 99% of buyers will tell you, that they would never ever pay such money for Seiko and 1% doesn't have free funds at the moment. Also be prepared for 35-40% loss from stock price. From the other side, today is a pretty good time to buy Grand Seiko line because of low yen and lot of offers on the market. For example I've seen Spring drive GMT (SBGE001, stock price about 6000 USD/EUR) selling for as low as 2800 usd. Otherwise they are kind of mechanical wonders and wonderful watches, just no respect because of "non western" marketing strategy.


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## Vlance

The quartz models seem to do pretty bad. I lost $1000 on a watch that was 97%.


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## gatormac

camouflage said:


> be prepared for 35-40% loss from stock price.


But that's true for a new Omega (insert pretty much any major Swiss brand minus Rolex or Patek) for a NEW watch. I've purchased new Swiss watches at 40% less than MSRP through common grey market online dealers in the US. So you are going to easily lose 50-60% buying most new Swiss watches from an AD unless you get a good discount. If you are trying to sell a GS to 99% of buyers, then you are wasting your time. The great thing about selling on these forums is that it is full of watch enthusiasts. However, I will admit when I see a sale coming from a small country in Eastern Europe or Asia, I will usually skip it out of fear of a scam, so I can see where it would be harder for you. 1K lost on a quartz? You are going to lose at least 1K on any luxury watch purchase UNLESS it is a limited edition that can no longer be purchased any other way.


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## Alex_TA

I'd say it holds its price on the same level as all Swiss watches except Rolex and Patek.
GS divers are pretty popular. And you must negotiate discount from AD of course.

Regards,
Alex from a small country in Asia


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## m0c021

camouflage said:


> Grand Seiko is a real pain to sell, specially in Europe - at least 99% of buyers will tell you, that they would never ever pay such money for Seiko and 1% doesn't have free funds at the moment. Also be prepared for 35-40% loss from stock price. From the other side, today is a pretty good time to buy Grand Seiko line because of low yen and lot of offers on the market. For example I've seen Spring drive GMT (SBGE001, stock price about 6000 USD/EUR) selling for as low as 2800 usd. Otherwise they are kind of mechanical wonders and wonderful watches, just no respect because of "non western" marketing strategy.


Not trying to call you a liar but I doubt it. Maybe if it was used on an auction like ebay and there wasn't a reserve. Would love to be proven wrong though.


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## m0c021

Honestly give Rob at Toppers a call. They are the forum sponsor and I was pleasantly surprised at the quote they gave me.


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## CSB123

Thanks, will keep him/them in mind.


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## camouflage

please check Watchrecon

TimeZone : Sales Corner » F/S Grand Seiko Spring Drive GMT, SBGE001

also one available in Rakuten

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/auc-dealmaker/item/iwda-1760/


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## gatormac

I don't think you can every have a blanket answer for that, for any brand, because it will vary from model to model. The challenge for each GS model is figuring out what the actual going rate (market price) is vs. posted MSRP. For whatever model it is probably less than what they have posted as MSRP, but because it is such low volume you don't typically see the prices posted all over the place. One thing you can do is search on google and see what they are selling it for in Japan, but even then prices often vary a lot, but you can get some idea. In the end the best thing is to ask a dealer or two or three.


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## samanator

Just a note we do not discuss discounting here.


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## bcbcbck

You should know Grand Seiko is not a Rolex or Omega. This is why I hesitate to buy it.


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## samanator

bcbcbck said:


> You should know Grand Seiko is not a Rolex or Omega. This is why I hesitate to buy it.


In some cases it's actually better. Not all Rolex or Omega have good value retention. Just few specific models. In looking for the 130th Anniversary GS for a member here I found almost 100% value retention.

Due the currency adjustment over the year the GS Diver I bought for the then JDM retail of $4800 in 2008. I was able the sell it three years later at the current 2015 Retail price of $6500 ( completely unknown in 2011. This was due to the JDM retail price back then was over $8000. Total fluke and completely unintentional, but occasionally you just get lucky.

Japan's currency rates seem to have finally stabilized.


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## snakeeyes

bcbcbck said:


> You should know Grand Seiko is not a Rolex or Omega. This is why I hesitate to buy it.


please clarify.....

GS is every bit of watch if not more than Rolex/Omega...as for resale?...nothing matches Rolex and Omega depreciates as much as GS if not more......


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## pborrica

I have not sold much in general, but I've always browsed watchrecon to see what other sellers are pricing their watches at. I personally feel its a good way to judge what a specific watch is going for in a pre-owned condition. Its also interesting to see the trends. I hope this helps!


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## JaqueDemour

These pretty keep their resale value.


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## rnrprof

Do you think it matters much if the GS is a tool watch or a dress one?


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## ten13th

No brand holds value, period. For every vintage Rolex Daytona that sold for ridiculous amount of money, there are hundreds of Cellini or Datejust that depreciates in value just like other watches. The entire line of Woman's Rolex watch has almost no resale market...

Just as Samanator stated. Only selected models will hold or appreciate in valve for any brand. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Daswann

The Spring Drive and High Beat seem to retain their value more (esp. the Snowflake). the Auto and Quartz not so much. I could be wrong.


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## Langs

m0c021 said:


> Not trying to call you a liar but I doubt it. Maybe if it was used on an auction like ebay and there wasn't a reserve. Would love to be proven wrong though.


I think it is true. I have three GS watches, one auto and two quartz. I recently wanted to sell one quartz and the auto to purchase the SBGR059; the quartz was brand new just two months old and I would only be offered just over half the value. Maybe if I waited longer I would have been offered more, but it would have taken time. In the end I kept the same three (and I love them to bits).

Most people in Europe haven't a clue about SGS - which for me adds to it's appeal. Although, one high end jeweller I went to for bracelet adjustment threw round the auto as if it was an £80 Seiko! I had to educate him on the watch and all I got was the question 'why didn't you buy a Rolex?'. Told him I have two, but prefer the GS. His face was a picture as I left


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## shnjb

Langs said:


> I think it is true. I have three GS watches, one auto and two quartz. I recently wanted to sell one quartz and the auto to purchase the SBGR059; the quartz was brand new just two months old and I would only be offered just over half the value. Maybe if I waited longer I would have been offered more, but it would have taken time. In the end I kept the same three (and I love them to bits).
> 
> Most people in Europe haven't a clue about SGS - which for me adds to it's appeal. Although, one high end jeweller I went to for bracelet adjustment threw round the auto as if it was an £80 Seiko! I had to educate him on the watch and all I got was the question 'why didn't you buy a Rolex?'. Told him I have two, but prefer the GS. His face was a picture as I left


Wow. I wouldn't want to go to a jeweler who tossed non Rolexes around and questions my purchasing decisions.


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## Langs

shnjb said:


> Wow. I wouldn't want to go to a jeweler who tossed non Rolexes around and questions my purchasing decisions.


He was very arrogant. I'll never go back, and left an honest review on google too!


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## rnrprof

so watch recon is the best for values that are real? Better than Terapeak history?


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## rnrprof

for me I am trying to make the decision of jumping from a spring drive diver to the sbga 029 or 031. I love my SBDB001 way better than my MM300, but the jump to the Grand Seiko is about twice the price of the SBDB001 and I think that the depreciation of the GS will be higher


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## rbob99

I have sold two GS that I bought used and both sold for around 60% of list price, even though the condition was superb. If you care about resale value then my advice is definitely buy used. Certain scarce limited editions sell well but otherwise, if you buy new and pay full price, you lose a lot of money when you drive off the lot.


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## TheGodlenGopher

I once had an SBGR061; bought it for nearly $4,000, and sold it for $2,800.


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## Seibei

TheGodlenGopher said:


> I once had an SBGR061; bought it for nearly $4,000, and sold it for $2,800.


$2800 is excellent and you should be pleased to get that much. The problem is that $4000 was too much to begin with.


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## horolicious

On my last trip to Japan I purchased this watch and with credit card discount I was able to get a great deal. It is sbgr069 only sold at select stores. It has a sport style design with very delicate thin hour markers.







I am sure if I wanted to sell it, nobody would wanted, because it looks sporty, yet not a diver.

send from AZ


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## Will3020

Once you've purchased and it's pre-owned, the value depreciates ! PERIOD !


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## AvantGardeTime

I have owned 4 to date (1 JDM quartz and 3 Spring Drives) and all sold fairly well. I would say the resale of GS is generally better than say, Brietling & Omega. However, the problem with GS is that due to the huge currency fluctuations between the USD and YEN, Seiko has been reducing the US suggested retail price (Quite contrary to the constant price increases in Swiss brands). This is good for new buyers but bad for those looking to sell/flip. For example, back in 2011 I bought a new SBGC001 Spring Drive chrono for $6,800. The watch had a sticker of $9600. Today the same watch can be had new for much less since the retail now is $7,700. So those who bought Grand Seiko between 2010-2012 from US based ADs and sold later are the ones that sustained the higher value losses.

Seiko, IMO, doesn't care about protecting the resale value of existing pieces. They are and always will be a volume watch manufacturer and unfortunately this line of thinking has spilled over their luxury brands.

If buying new, I would suggest negotiating the best discount you can possibly get. Make no mistake, as fabulous as Grand Seikos are these watches are not selling like hotcakes. Sure they are an excellent value proposition vs most mainstream Swiss brands but the name "Seiko" is a deterrent to some looking to spend "Rolex" money on watch. Brand name recognition and image are king in the jewelry industry whether we like or not.

I love Grand Seiko but having experienced this, I don't think I will own more than 1 piece at a time.


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## Zanotti

Nice looking watch. Its always fun to find something on a trip to add to the memories.


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## El @

TOPTISHKIN said:


> On my last trip to Japan I purchased this watch and with credit card discount I was able to get a great deal. It is sbgr069 only sold at select stores. It has a sport style design with very delicate thin hour markers.
> I am sure if I wanted to sell it, nobody would wanted, because it looks sporty, yet not a diver.


I find it charming and if I was on the market for a GS I would buy it. The only things that don't sell are overpriced eccentricities.


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## stubborndonkey

I think resale value shouldn't be too important when buying a watch, I understand the impulse but it is a luxury item


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## Tseg

stubborndonkey said:


> I think resale value shouldn't be too important when buying a watch, I understand the impulse but it is a luxury item


Agreed. Talking about buying watches and talking about seeking watch resale value in the same sentence is a bit of an oxymoron. If you own more than about 1 watch you've already demonstrated your lack of financial discipline and economic smarts.


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## Verydark

Hi, i´ll tell you my experience with GS, a few years ago i got a SBGW001 almost new for just 800 euros from someone that i guess recieved the watch as a present or something but was not a wis. A few months later i traded it for a Coaxial Omega Seamaster, personally i consider the GS a much higher end watch than the Omega but they were playing the same league in the market. I dropped the GS just because it was too dressy and i was not going to use it so when i got tired of just admire it in the box i realize i was time to move into something i was really going to use. Today i regret it badly but in general terms i believe GS resale value is not quite good, nowdays i'm considering the SBGV015, i think it´s the perfect everyday watch for me but i'm not so sure about the price and an eventual sale, specially considering it's a quartz piece. Anyway GS are great watches and if you plan to keep it forever they worth every penny...


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## Bobfish

Even if, like you say, you do not intend to sell the watch anytime soon, resale value is an important factor. Depending on where you are, it will be more or less easy to get a good resale price. GS sells, from what I heard, well on US/Japan market. If you're in the US (or Canada...), it should not be difficult. If you're in Europe, on the other hand, it could be tricky (unless you sell it to me ;-)). Anyway, GS have a better resale value than Montblanc or Louis Vuitton, of course. Finally, if you get a second hand, you will loose less when you sell...


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## horolicious

Bobfish said:


> Even if, like you say, you do not intend to sell the watch anytime soon, resale value is an important factor. Depending on where you are, it will be more or less easy to get a good resale price. GS sells, from what I heard, well on US/Japan market. If you're in the US (or Canada...), it should not be difficult. If you're in Europe, on the other hand, it could be tricky (unless you sell it to me ;-)). Anyway, GS have a better resale value than Montblanc or Louis Vuitton, of course. Finally, if you get a second hand, you will loose less when you sell...


It looks like you deserve a Rolex for your cunning acumen. 

send from AZ


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## Bobfish

TOPTISHKIN said:


> It looks like you deserve a Rolex for your cunning acumen.
> 
> send from AZ


Sorry, I don't get that expression "cunning acumen" (english is not my mother tongue)


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## jdmfetish

rnrprof said:


> for me I am trying to make the decision of jumping from a spring drive diver to the sbga 029 or 031. I love my SBDB001 way better than my MM300, but the jump to the Grand Seiko is about twice the price of the SBDB001 and I think that the depreciation of the GS will be higher


if you are jumping from a Spring Drive Diver to the sbga029 or sbga031 , well, you are in fact moving from a spring drive diver to a spring drive diver

aren't all 3 of these S.D.D. ( sbga029/sbga031/sbdb001) ?

at the end of the day 99% of all new watch purchases are , a depreciating asset


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## thesheet

Bobfish said:


> Sorry, I don't get that expression "cunning acumen" (english is not my mother tongue)


The ability to make decisions using deceit.

In this case meant sarcastically.


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## Daswann

My car cost 12X more then my Grand Seiko Diver, but i'm sure I just depreciated away about a good 4X the value of my Grand Seiko on that car so far. Just buy what you can afford then enjoy it.


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## seikomatic

gatormac said:


> Resale value and depreciation is interesting. Most of my watches are pre-owned. Many of them are no longer made. I know that I can resell the no-longer made ones for basically the same price I bought them for, particularly as long as I'm in no hurry. Over time I might even be able to make a small profit on them, although still probably at a small loss if you consider the value of time and money and loss of alternative investments- for that reason I never consider a watch as an investment, but trying to not lose much money on them is part of the game for me.
> 
> However, I'm planning to buy a GS or two in a couple of months. I want these new. I know I'll take a loss on initial depreciation, but I want to experience the quality and sparkly of a new GS. However, when looking at depreciation and re-sale value of a new watch, there are a few things to look at. First, you know up front that if you have to sell relatively soon, like within a few years, you will definitely lose some money. The question is how much, what percentage loss? One of the mistakes at looking at depreciation, particularly with GS (and people using that to put GS down) is that you have to look at the actual market price. For most Swiss watches for instance, that would be the grey market price. Why? Because most reasonable people aren't going to pay the same price for a used watch that they could buy new through online grey market dealers. So the starting point for price is not really what the AD offers for price, but what the going price on the grey market is. So if you buy an Omega from an AD and MSRP of 4K, but the watch can be found at 3K at places like Jomashop, then you have already lost 1K at purchase, but really probably more like 1.5K, because if I can find a brand new watch for 3K from a reputable online dealer, then I'm not going to buy used from an unknown person for more than 500 less than that. That's my own judgement, but you have to figure most others have the same thought process, and used watch buyers have usually done some homework. Still, the 4k purchase is not a total loss, as you can still liquidate and get 2.5K back, sort of like a bank account on the wrist I say. Nevertheless, the better bet is grey market, but there some small risk that the watch will break sooner than the time period that would have been covered under manufacture warranty. But then again, a warranty watch could break shortly after warranty expires. Life carries some risk.
> 
> GS is a bit different in that they are much lower volume, and there is no grey market to speak of. However, the question is- what is the actual lowest new market price of each model? This is interesting for GS, because I've seen Rolex types criticizing GS for being a huge loss in depreciation, quoting prices found online that may be MSRP but do not reflect that actual going price of the watch. Ask a US dealer, and their prices are usually lower than posted price. But theres more- online Japanese middle men dealers who offer watches at Japanese prices. The Yen has devalued tremendously over the last 5 years- I've watch GS watches that were once out of reach becoming much more affordable- it's great for a buyer, but if you bought your GS 5 years ago, you are going to take a big loss. So now we are talking currency exchange rates, which is very complicated. My guess though is that the Yen cannot keep falling at this rate, so I think now is a good time to buy. Then there is Europe- those Japanese dealers cannot ship to Europe from what I have heard, and if they did, the buyer would still get stuck with 20% VAT. So, in the UK and other places in Europe, it is harder to get watches at prices available in the US or Japan, but that also makes it easier to sell your watch there (if yo live there). This makes it more enticing for me- I'm American, partially living in the UK and planning to move there permanently. So I will buy my watch in the US or Japan, take it with me (probably wearing it) to the UK, and if I have to sell it later, most likely will sell in the UK. If you are in the US, you have to figure someone savvy enough about watches to want a pre-owned GS is going to be savvy enough to find the cheapest new price, be it Japan or US. So you need to be sure of the cheapest price, and then figure depreciation from there.
> 
> For the most part it is all relative. All watches that are not limited editions will depreciate in the short-middle term. Some watches like Rolex have online markets which make selling quicker and easier, but they still depreciate if you sell within a few years. Like someone else mentioned, watch-recon is a good source, however many of the GS models are rare enough that you don't frequently find them on sale. Also, you need to look at trends. One desperate seller does not a trend make- just like a foreclosing house does not indicate the value of other houses on the street.
> 
> Good luck.


Good point on GS as especially regarding the FX issue that I believe Swiss watches also start to factor in their retail price.

Some conclusion:

1) Never consider GS as an investment in the first place, though I brought and sold dozen of Seiko and 90% of that I made a small profits from them.

2) Resell value : if you plan to sell yours within say a short period of time, then you should consider that loss as "rental" for use.

3) Resell in case when financial need arises : then you should use your spare money to buy a GS and the order of reselling it should be ranked very low.

So far I have only 2 GSs, the first diver I brought it used and the recent YEN devaluation does no affect my current resell value.

My second one I brought is new as I think the price is rather reasonable enough as I don't plan for resell, used market value was not my concern when I paid.


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## c.hanninen

Love that sbgr069! Nice pickup!


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## benjib

I am buying a grand Seiko quartz model. The cost of this model from a UK dealer is 2250, after importing one brand new from Japan and paying all the correct taxes it will cost me 1500. 


I've seen older, cheaper models than this one go on eBay for around 900. So I am expecting to lose about a third of the value I pay for it should I ever need to sell it.

There is a limited market with them been high end Japanese. Really the only people who will buy one will be the watch freaks like us. And with it been quartz, that limits the number of potential customers even more.

Just as a test I submitted a request to watch finder UK to see what they would pay for a used one, they usually give the best prices when selling to a UK dealer. They didn't even want to make me an offer on the watch.... Says a lot.

Luckily I buy these things to keep and I buy them for me. Odds are if i was desperate for cash I would sell the Tudor Pelagos. Not only is it worth more but it would be quicker to sell, watch finder pay about 1800 for it. EBay it will go for around 2k.


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## Langs

My red Tudor Black Bay took forever to sell, and it only sold for £1250 in the end when I lowered the price. The ones on eBay for £1600+ tend to stick around. So resale issues and depreciation hits Swiss watches too, but maybe not as much as GS as GS are not as well known.


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## SUPAN

Buy GS to resell GS at profit or same value ? 

Laughs ... Possible .... Limited editions 

SBDB008


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## Zinzan

I wonder if another possible reason for lower resale values on Grand Seikos is that, for those that are actively shopping for GS, they are attracted to the highly touted "amazing finishing", which may only be fully realized on a new watch.


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## jminchoi

Zinzan said:


> I wonder if another possible reason for lower resale values on Grand Seikos is that, for those that are actively shopping for GS, they are attracted to the highly touted "amazing finishing", which may only be fully realized on a new watch.


I disagree, I think that the finishing is top notch, my GS looks new after 2 years of wear and I'd argue it's better finished than my Speedmaster. It's more a brand perception thing as Grand Seikos are relatively unknown outside of Japan. People like buying luxury watches to get noticed, seek status, or impress. The greatest values for GS if you know what you want is buying on the secondary market. You don't take the depreciation hit and you end up with a heck of a watch. If you don't plan to resell, then it's great as unless it is a popular GS like a snowflake or a LE high beat, you'll probably get hosed on the resale. Buying used, you can minimize that hit.


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## Zinzan

jminchoi said:


> I disagree, I think that the finishing is top notch, my GS looks new after 2 years of wear and I'd argue it's better finished than my Speedmaster. It's more a brand perception thing as Grand Seikos are relatively unknown outside of Japan. People like buying luxury watches to get noticed, seek status, or impress. The greatest values for GS if you know what you want is buying on the secondary market. You don't take the depreciation hit and you end up with a heck of a watch. If you don't plan to resell, then it's great as unless it is a popular GS like a snowflake or a LE high beat, you'll probably get hosed on the resale. Buying used, you can minimize that hit.


I disagree with your disagreement. 

Simply because I'm not saying my reason is the only reason for lower resale values; I'm saying it's a possible additional reason.

Given the scarcity of used Grand Seikos in the Atlanta area (never seen one in any local storefront), the discounts available from authorized dealers in the US, and my desire for an "amazing finish", I am much more likely to buy a new GS over a used one. It might be different if I was in Japan or other parts of Asia, where there is a much larger used market for Grand Seikos.


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## mgennone

I wish resale was worse so I could get one on the cheap


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## paskinner

The only sane reason to buy a watch is because you want to own it. Resale value only matters if you see the watch as just 'passing through.' If you don't sell it, you don't suffer any depreciation at all. Same as with cars or most other things.
Buy really good things, then keep them, enjoy them.


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## Zinzan

@paskinner, there are a lot of WIS that flip watches frequently, fully enjoying the weeks or months they hold onto a watch before they sell or trade. That's not me, but who am I to say that's insane?


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## bwilliamson51

Interesting topic and comments here on GS, I have a GS Diver, LE to 200, blue dial, 071 model. Although I love it, I have been considering selling it but am unsure what I should look for. I was thinking 5500, only because the rarity of the dial and model.


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## entrynmbrv

Does anyone have any advice on where would be a good place to try and sell a GS? While I've been reading these forums for years, I never posted much and can't sell in these boards. Anyone know of resellers that will buy gently used SBGX061s?


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## PJ S

eBay is one obvious option, as too is chrono24, but if you can’t be bothered to increase your post count to avail of this board’s classifieds section, then you could try each of the GS ADs, a number of whom are part of these boards.


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## gatormac

I know this is an old thread, but since my experience is directly related to this thread, and I was an earlier contributor, I want to share my experience here. About a year ago, I bought a Japan only GS model, and sold it less than a year later. I got it from a dealer in Japan, sent to me in the US. I now live in the UK and always frequented the UK. The moral of the story is that I sold the GS in the UK, via these boards, for THE SAME PRICE I got it for. That's 100% resale value. While you can sell a used Rolex very quickly, if you think you are going to get 100% resale in less than a year on your typical Rolex or Patek, even if you cross borders, you are mistaken. It just doesn't make economical sense for a buyers perspective, but for the buyer of the GS it did make sense for him, and I'll explain.

Now of course, buying from one country and selling to another is not typical, but it's not unheard of or impossible, particularly if you travel a lot. But there are some important things to keep in mind regarding the used watch market. For one thing, you need to be patient, although I was surprised that the GS sold almost immediately, while an Omega Railmaster I was selling took months to sell (although I actually made some money on it). The GS model I sold is not available in the UK or Europe, not even from their GS dealers. Second, their prices in the UK dealers and Europe are quite high compared to the US or Japan. Furthermore, the quoted price at either US or Japanese dealers web sites were (and typically are) significantly higher than what most will offer if you ask for their best deal. More than often, those people disparaging GS resale prices are quoting posted prices that are not actually the going price. 

So in this case, the buyer got a used watch that he could not get in the UK, and he got it at a price that was less than something comparable in the UK would be. I got 100% resale. It was a win-win. It is not typical to accomplish 100% value retention for any watch over the short term (less than 5 years) but another situation where that very well might happen is if you own a limited edition piece, since they only way to get it after they sell out is through private used-watch sellers. 

The Omega I was selling was a popular model they stopped making several years ago that is still highly desired with collectors. I had to be patient, turned down many low-ball offers, but I knew what I had and eventually sold it for 300 dollars more than I paid. I also originally bought it used myself, for a good price, so no surprise there. Buying used watches can easily allow you 100% value retention from watch to watch. 

Now typically if you buy new and sell in the US (or within any country) and it is a production model, you will naturally have to sell for a price low enough to entice a buyer to buy from you rather than a new watch. Therefore a GS or any Swiss watch bought new will lose money if you go to resell within a few years. However, when looking at ACTUAL prices of GS compared to other swiss watches, GS resale is at least comparable. Over the last several years, a lot of people lost value on their GS watches because of the decline of the yen. That is simply a matter of currency fluctuations, and nothing to do with the watches themselves or the market for them. That is part of the reason why GS has also become such a bargain over the last few years. The other thing is, you have to be prepared to be patient. These watches are only desirable to WUS in the know. It may take some time. 

Simply put, based on my own experience, it is a myth that GS resale value is less than that of typical luxury Swiss watches.


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## T1meout

I bought a Rolex while on a cruise in the Caribbean.
Had I sold it within a year after I bought it, I would have made money.
If I sell it today, I would still break even.
Sometimes the stars align and all works out in your favor.
In your case that would be, a favorable exchange rate, unattainable limited model, the right buyer.
Good for you, but it's an exception. Not the norm.
Remember, N=1 is statistically insignificant.


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## gatormac

T1meout said:


> Good for you, but it's an exception. Not the norm.
> Remember, N=1 is statistically insignificant.


Perhaps you should go back and re-read my post, for I said pretty much the same thing, and you are in fact citing my own points. But that is a matter of 100% resell value. And it's not just a matter of stars aligning- anyone could easily today buy a GS in the US or Japan, even a model available in Europe (not to mention all the models that are not available there or limited editions) and sell it for a favorable price, simply because GS prices at the few dealers in Europe are so high. It doesn't even have anything to do with the exchange rate at this point.

My overall point comes from plenty of experience buying and selling watches, not just one watch. Another example I can site of 100% resell value is selling a micro brand watch, a Halios Tropik. I had it posted for the same price bought new, but was a model no longer made. I had a guy low ball me and then chastise me for asking too high of a price after I politely turned down his offer. I knew what I was doing, I was in no hurry, and I eventually sold it for 100% of its new value.

When it comes to "normal circumstances", i.e. buying and selling a production model within ones own country, then Rolex and Patek hold their value best, but you are still going to lose significant money. However GS is as good as any other Swiss manufacturer as long as you are patient and know what you are doing. I would actually say GS is better under those circumstances than other Swiss brands with the exception of the two previously mentioned.

I watch people panic on the sales forums all the time and lower their prices for various watches faster than they should. For that matter, you can quickly sell your Rolex to lots of middle man "pre owned" watch dealers, but you are going to get raped in that process and make far less than you could if you took your time and sold it yourself. You are correct that N=1 is insignificant which is why you have to look at trends and do your homework; not just base your price on one or two quick sells by desperate people. How many times have I heard the same thing in the housing market, "I'm upside down with my house, because a guy down the street foreclosed and the bank sold his house for pennies." No, that reflects one distressed case, not the value of all the houses on the street.


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## gatormac

duplicate


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## KS1144

It's with anything if you buy pre-owned at a solid deal, you can sell pre-owned for a solid deal and lose very little and possibly nothing. 

Buy new and you will take a hit on the sale.


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## T1meout

gatormac said:


> Simply put, based on my own experience, it is a myth that GS resale value is less than that of typical luxury Swiss watches.


I read your entire post. And you did a fabulous job breaking down the how and why.

However my reply was directed at your final statement. It's not a myth. It's a fact. And a single exception doesn't change it.

Unless there was an ulterior motive, no one in their right mind would fly all the way to Japan just to buy a GS. If that's the case you'd take a bath when adjusting for the flight and hotel stay.

With the stars aligning, I meant, you were coincidentally in the right place at the right time, where you were able to buy the right model at a favorable price. Then you were patient or lucky enough to find a buyer that was willing to pay what you desired.

Remove any of those factors and the outcome would have been entirely different.

This doesn't just apply to watches, but to everything. It's a fundamental cornerstone of doing business. A you are good at it by the looks of it.

The fact remains, when buying GS locally, unless bought at a substantial discount, should you ever decide to part with it, you'd end up loosing a lot of money for plenty of reasons others have allready pointed out in this very same thread.


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## gatormac

T1meout said:


> However my reply was directed at your final statement. It's not a myth. It's a fact. And a single exception doesn't change it.


Simply making a statement without anything to back it up does not contribute anything meaningful. You keep going back to one example I made as if that is the only thing I've written about, despite everything else I have written. I never suggested someone fly to Japan simply to buy a watch, anymore than I would suggest someone take a trip to the Caribbean just to buy a watch. Don't be ridiculous. For one thing, in the US you can easily order a watch from Japan. I have bought and sold lots of watches, Japanese, German, Swiss; new and used. I have also spent a lot of time comparing prices of watches bought and sold. Yes, you will lose a lot of money selling any watch after you bought it locally new at an AD price, no more so with a GS. Simply look at grey market dealers in the US- regularly 30-40% discounts on new Swiss watches. You can get a new Omega Seamaster Pro for $2600 USD, as opposed to $4000 AD price. So that's already a 35% loss. Now go to sell it, you will be starting at a 40 to 50% loss right off the batt if you bought from an AD, because anyone can easily go buy a new watch off the grey market before buying used. That's not unique to Omega. At least GS has no grey market. If I had sold the same GS in the US or Japan, I would have likely lost about 15-25% on it. That not a wild guess, but based on experience and seeing the same watch sold online, more than once. That's not bad.

Please, if you're just going to keep repeating the same thing over and over again, and coming up with ridiculous conclusions from the things I posted, please save yourself the embarrassment and everyone else the time and just don't post anymore. Go troll somewhere else.


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## T1meout

Well excuse me for reacting to your post on a public forum.
I wasn't aware that apparently this wasn't the place to share opinions and engage in open discussion with forum members.
Didn't mean to embarrass myself and waste peoples time.
My sincerest apologies if I made an ass out of my selfs.
For future reference I'll do wise to tentatively pay attention to the opinion of others and never post anymore for fear of being branded a troll.

My gratitude for putting me in my place and showing us all who's boss.

Sarcasm off.

Now for my rebuttle.

It is no secret that GS has little notoriety in the western world. Therefore the buyers market for used GS is minuscule. Practically nonexistent. At least here in Europe it takes ages to sell them.

Neither is it a secret that GS watches at least in Europe are substantially more expensive than in Japan. There are few limited editions available to the western public. Run of the mill models are not in demand and therefore don't command a premium. Their value retention on the used market is abysmal.

3rd fact. The brandname itself, which by enthusiasts is considered a benefit, as it allows them to keep a low profile with no worries of getting mugged, is actually considered a stigma by the average consumer. I'm certain you've heard the saying "it's just a Seiko." before. This stigma has a negative impact on perceived value by the western consumers aswell.

Lastly they are expensive to maintain, and except for the US market, they require shipping all the way back to Japan for maintenance and refinishing. Another factor that impacts resale value negatively.

I just gave you 4 solid reasons why at least in Europe, GS resale value isn't that great, and in my opinion these reasons far outweigh a biased individual's sales experience.

Not to mention you are comparing apples to oranges. A single brand vs all brands manufactured by a entire country. I'm certain I can come up with 10 other Swiss brands besides Rolex and Patek that retain value far better than GS. But why bother.

How's that for backing it up.

If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.


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## T1meout

On a more serious note,
I was just engaging in discussion.
My intent was simply to offer a different perspective. 
I even paid you a complement several times and commended you on your sales skills.
There was no reason for you to digress in personal insults.
That was uncalled for.


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## gatormac

You "give reasons" and make statements purely on conjecture. So your "reasons" are not "solid".

http://www.jomashop.com/rolex-watch-116509blso.html

Here is just one more example, a Rolex offered on the purely legal and legitimate grey market for 26% (6k) below stated AD price in the US. So you already have a 26% loss on a brand new watch if you bought it from an AD at full price. Anyone knowledgeable enough to have the confidence to buy a watch used is going to know grey market prices and availability. You can buy a brand new Rolex, protected on credit card, with a 30 return policy, for 6 thousand less than AD price. So if you go to sell that watch used, you are likely (unless you luck out and find a sucker) going to have to sell below that price as a starting point.

I can go on all day with examples. And as I said earlier, Rolex is the best of the Swiss as far as price discipline and resale value. I can show plenty more Swiss examples on the grey market alone that are 40-50% discounted from AD price for BRAND NEW WATCHES. Go to sell in the US and you are going to have to start your selling price below the going grey market price. Done it many times, and I can show plenty of used watch prices online too. So if you pay full price for most Swiss watches, you are likely looking at close to 50% loss when you go to resell in less than 5 years.

I don't have time to give you a lesson in basic economics. However, the things that you say about GS being a smaller market are true. I, and many others, have stated the same. So again, you have contributed nothing to the conversation. But what you don't seem to understand is that all things are relative. There are indeed less buyers, but there are also less sellers. In the days before the internet (yes I'm old enough to remember) that would have created much more of a challenge, but now you can post something for sell and immediately millions can see it. I already stated that GS is basically a WUS market only, but they are out there. By the way, I just remembered, I sold another Seiko (JDM) model in the UK for about 50% higher than original AD price. Why? Because it is no longer made. And why else? Because there are plenty of WUS in the UK and the rest of Europe. The market is there. It is smaller and you need to be patient, but it's there. While these watches are more expensive and with less availability in Europe (the price you pay for living under a cartel called the EU), your resell value is going to be relative to that. When I sold the earlier mentioned GS, the buyer and I discussed me possible buying another GS model that he possessed and was looking to sell. We both new it was unlikely to work out though, since I have access to the US and Japanese market. Sure enough, the price he was looking to sell it for was too high for me, and what I would offer was too low for him. But case in point, he knew his own market. He was a fellow WUS who did a fair amount of buying and selling. If it was as bad as you say, if there was no market for it, he would have just desperately sold it to me for whatever he could get. However he didn't do that. He held on to it and later sold it within the UK to someone who wanted a GS but didn't want to pay (or couldn't afford) the high price of a new watch from an AD. It's all relative.

Here's just one more of thousands, and Audemars Piguet, brand new, at 53% below AD price: http://www.jomashop.com/audemars-piguet-watch-26558tiood080ve01.html

Here's another one being sold on these forums, only a couple of years old. This is a 20K watch at the AD. He hasn't even sold it yet and he is already at close to 50% loss. https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/vach...chrono-49150-000w-9501-$10-995-a-3766082.html

And finally, a GS is no more expensive to maintain than a high end Swiss watch. In the UK you can just send it to the UK Seiko Service Center, and they will send it to Japan for you. Even if you decide to mail it to Japan yourself, big deal! It isn't difficult to send things internationally. You make it sound like you have to personally carry it there yourself. It is a particularly ridiculous argument when you look at how very expensive it is to have your Rolex serviced by Rolex.

Oh, here is one of many used GS sales on these forums. I purchased this same watch from and AD for $3800 USD. The price sold here? $3500 USD. In case you can't do the math, that is a difference of 8%. I would warn any readers against expecting that kind of return when selling any used watch, but do some research on actual buying prices from a GS AD, then compare to used selling prices, and you will see that on average they certainly aren't any worse than average Swiss resell values.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f29/sold-grand-seiko-spring-drive-sbga025-$3500-3147562.html


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## T1meout

You may have overlooked the following threads. I have no desire to break it down for you. I suggest you read them.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/grand-seiko-really-excellent-value-money-3648322.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/spring-drive-maintenance-general-polishing-question-3495714.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/zar...lishing-service-%5Bupdate-2-5%5D-2371082.html

the last posts in this one:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f642/wel...nsored-seiko-corporation-america-3723418.html

Or even this one for that matter.

It's general knowledge that regardless of brand, precious metal watches are poor value for money, unless collectable and/ or very rare.

And still you insist on comparing a single brand to an entire industry.

I'm done.


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## gatormac

T1meout said:


> I'm done.


Thank goodness. Nothing like posting your own trolling threads. By the way, ever check the cost of sending a Rolex back to any Rolex service center?

It's sad that trolls like you seem to have nothing better to do than attack other products. And then you show that you get involved with thread after thread, even creating your own with trolling questions. If you like Swiss watches and don't like GS, then fine, but why would you go to GS sites simply to antagonize people?

I like Swiss watches too, but no high end watch is cheap to maintain. No new high end watch is a good investment. I could go on Rolex sites all day and quote the ridiculous cost of sending a Rolex back the Rolex service center, but I have better things to do with my life, and I see no reason to try and tare down others who simply have different preferences.


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## gatormac

T1meout said:


> It's general knowledge that regardless of brand, precious metal watches are poor value for money, unless collectable and/ or very rare.
> 
> And still you insist on comparing a single brand to an entire industry.


By the way, I quoted 4 different Swiss watch brands and only one of the 4 was a precious metal.

Here's a stainless steel Rolex for you. Already lost 20% value and it's still new. I can do this all day long.

http://www.jomashop.com/rolex-mens-watch-114200-blaso.html


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## T1meout

Au Contraire. I have great appreciation for the brand and I'm looking to add one to my collection real soon. Out of all the forums on WUS, the GS forum is the one I frequent the most. Regardless of your opinion I'm not a troll or a hater. I'm a realist and always attempt to keep both feet on the ground, unlike the scores of blind followers who are unable to stomach criticism, I call it like I see it.

Watches from Jomashop don't come with a manufacturer warrenty. Joma offer their own in-house warrenty. Granted it's cheap, but one would be forgoing Rolex's 5 year international warrenty, which should count for something IMHO.

If I'm not mistaken the current Rolex standard maintenance fee is €650, which includes replacement of worn movement parts plus refinishing. That's approximately half of what GS charges for Snowflake maintenance if opting to have it refinished as well. Turnaround time is double that of Rolex as well if not longer.

Since you are unable to dispense with the insults I'll make an exception and stoop down to your level.

I believe you are a ....[Ommited due to violation of forum rules and guidelines]

I was here before you came, and I'll still be around long after you've left.

Au revoir


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