# Kurono announces their 2021 anniversary watch- Toki



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

KURONO Anniversary 朱鷺:TOKI (Old)


SOLD OUT いつもありがとうございます BACK TO BEGINNINGS The KURONO Anniversary special edition is a significant part of the brand line-up. It serves as an important reminder of our humble beginnings and the reason why the initiative was started - To create high-quality, Japan-made luxury timepieces that...



kuronotokyo.com







> _*The Kurono special second-anniversary edition 朱鷺:Toki will be time-limited for exactly 10 minutes from the time of launch (21st May 2021 2300hrs JST.*_





> *Pre-orders start 21st May 2021 2300hrs JST
> JST 23:00 PM - Tokyo, Japan
> PST 07:00 AM - California, United States
> EST 10:00 AM - New York, United States
> ...





> *SPECIFICATIONS*
> 
> Premium-grade Miyota 90S5 movement
> Mechanical automatic winding
> ...





> Delivery: Starting Mid-June 2021
> Price: JPY189,900 / USD1,738 excluding applicable taxes


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## Earthjade (Jan 5, 2018)

Pretty In Pink


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

As a large waisted man 37mm is borderline what I can do. 38 already looks small but I can excuse a dress watch at least...


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## Piter De Vries (Apr 18, 2019)

Saw the Mori for sale here and just shook my head. Launch price was similar to the Toki if memory serves, and the seller here wanted about 3x that. 
I guess I just had my first scalper experience.

The Toki looks lovely, but it will be snatched up by jag-offs in the 10 minute buying window and then sold _a-la-Rolex _for stupid money later. 
Parts of this hobby really suck.


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## la pava congona (Dec 5, 2019)

Piter De Vries said:


> Saw the Mori for sale here and just shook my head. Launch price was similar to the Toki if memory serves, and the seller here wanted about 3x that.
> I guess I just had my first scalper experience.
> 
> The Toki looks lovely, but it will be snatched up by jag-offs in the 10 minute buying window and then sold _a-la-Rolex _for stupid money later.
> Parts of this hobby really suck.


Well a Rolex is only worth $2000 in materials and labor cost as well, so why not sell the Kurono for $6000?


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## Dev65 (Oct 10, 2018)

Piter De Vries said:


> Saw the Mori for sale here and just shook my head. Launch price was similar to the Toki if memory serves, and the seller here wanted about 3x that.
> I guess I just had my first scalper experience.
> 
> The Toki looks lovely, but it will be snatched up by jag-offs in the 10 minute buying window and then sold _a-la-Rolex _for stupid money later.
> Parts of this hobby really suck.


it sounds a bit like the Ming launch, where everybody who wants one can get one in that ten min window. If thats the case, I'm tempted!

_"Kurono will honor ALL orders placed within the 10 minute ordering window. Each customer is limited to 1 watch only. It will only be available for purchase on www.kuronotokyo.com - Please ensure you have a registered account with us. You can create an account with us via this link."_


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Piter De Vries said:


> Saw the Mori for sale here and just shook my head. Launch price was similar to the Toki if memory serves, and the seller here wanted about 3x that.
> I guess I just had my first scalper experience.
> 
> The Toki looks lovely, but it will be snatched up by jag-offs in the 10 minute buying window and then sold _a-la-Rolex _for stupid money later.
> Parts of this hobby really suck.


It's a time limited release, just like Ming did with the 17.09. The "jagoffs" can't do anything, everybody who wants a watch will get one, provided they're up to date with the brand and are aware of the release date.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Glad that I will have the opportunity to buy a Kurono, assuming the ordering process within the 10-minute mark will be smooth like Ming’s. Good move by Kurono in this regard.


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

Thought i was done for the year  ... i will be lining up for this though methinks...

right price - crazy to see prior versions going for 3x plus...


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## osamu (Dec 17, 2013)

cool for them to honor all orders within that timeframe instead of having some limited run. Hope the order process goes smoothly for the people that want them. I really wish it was more "standard" color, as not sure I have wrist time for a salmon dial, even though I really like how it looks.


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## csong91 (Dec 15, 2020)

I’m currently on the fence. I was hoping for a cherry blossom pink but this isn’t too bad either.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

If i remember the launch, i might give it a try. You need to create an account? I did get the email notice.


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## Medusa (Feb 6, 2010)

Too bad they could not keep the Japanese writing throughout the whole dial. It would of looked more Japanese that way.

日本製 looks much better.


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## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

Interesting......


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## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

That's a nice way to do an LE while giving everyone a chance to get it. Hope the servers hold up. Better let your CC know ahead of time in case you find yourself calling the CC to let the order through and the time lapses. Not my cup of tea though.


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## Mediocre (Oct 27, 2013)

If I remember I will try to get it on this one


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

Timed releases should be the universal method to release highly sought after pieces IMO. I had the black and white 'Reiwa', and with the large white outer rings/border I felt that it wore even smaller than 37mm normally does so I ended up selling it. But this version, with the single colored dial I think will wear closer to true 37mm. I've been thinking of picking up a pink dial watch and I still do love the kanji, hands, and metal detailing on the dial, so I will definitely be picking this one up!


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

jmariorebelo said:


> It's a time limited release, just like Ming did with the 17.09. The "jagoffs" can't do anything, everybody who wants a watch will get one, provided they're up to date with the brand and are aware of the release date.


so Ming will launch on May 20th and Kurono on May 21st. Hmmm.


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## Buschyfor3 (Nov 12, 2018)

The script font used for "Automatic" seem a bit out of place to me (given the other fonts used on the dial), but the rest of the dial looks nice.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

I have the SUF Frosted Salmon and the Ming 17.09 Burgundy incoming. Tempted to go for this one to complete the trifecta, but concerned that there is too much color overlap. Wish I had the Mori or eggshell white one instead. From the pictures, it seems less salmon and more copperish pink to me. What do you guys think?


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## Histrionics (Feb 5, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I have the SUF Frosted Salmon and the Ming 17.09 Burgundy incoming. Tempted to go for this one to complete the trifecta, but concerned that there is too much color overlap. Wish I had the Mori or eggshell white one instead. From the pictures, it seems less salmon and more copperish pink to me. What do you guys think?


Took the words right out of my mouth.

The eggshell dial is one of the best looking watches ever released IMO.

I was committed to getting the next Kurono but I'm not connecting with this dial colour. Wish it was either more salmon-esk or more cherry blossom-esk. I've been looking at the SUF salmon and prefer that dial to this one.

Still a beautiful watch though. Very curious to see how many get ordered, although it sounds like they won't be publishing the production numbers.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Histrionics said:


> Took the words right out of my mouth.
> 
> The eggshell dial is one of the best looking watches ever released IMO.
> 
> ...


I absolutely love the SUF! I think it is one of the most underrated independent microbrands out there, probably due to a more restrained design approach vs Ming and Kurono. That's one of the reasons why I decided I will get the next Kurono (similar style of affordable design-centric watches from proven independent masters). But not sure about this color... I think I will bite the bullet and go for it, but hate myself even more for missing out on the Mori last year (and for choosing the Burgundy Ming over blue)


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

One cool thing about this is that Kurono hasn't increased the price since the Mori. Hajime-san seems still to be aiming to at least one piece a year at the under 200,000 JPY price point that he set for himself as an 'affordable' watch (even if the chronograph and the Grand Akane pulled higher prices). And with the time-limited release it's more democratic and gets more watches out there in the hands of people who want them. 

I love the color but I have the MING in Burgundy coming in a few months and I also have the Reiwa Copper and the cream-dialed classic. So besides already having plenty of watches, I already have a red Chrono Tokyo and a monochrome dial. But I hope other folks will jump on the opportunity.


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

I can’t get myself to want to spend $1700+ on a watch with a Miyota movement.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I absolutely love the SUF! I think it is one of the most underrated independent microbrands out there, probably due to a more restrained design approach vs Ming and Kurono. That's one of the reasons why I decided I will get the next Kurono (similar style of affordable design-centric watches from proven independent masters). But not sure about this color... I think I will bite the bullet and go for it, but hate myself even more for missing out on the Mori last year (and for choosing the Burgundy Ming over blue)


somebody said SUF?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Pongster said:


> somebody said SUF?
> View attachment 15884842


You really have everything out there 

How do you like it though? I feel it is quite underrated vs Kurono and Ming (probably due to a more restrained design approach)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> You really have everything out there
> 
> How do you like it though? I feel it is quite underrated vs Kurono and Ming (probably due to a more restrained design approach)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i like the artistry of the dial of my Reiwa better but as a watch, i like the dial of the Myrsky better. Not sure if i make sense.

i have no Ming. But that new Massena colLab is honeypotting me.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

conrad227 said:


> One cool thing about this is that Kurono hasn't increased the price since the Mori. Hajime-san seems still to be aiming to at least one piece a year at the under 200,000 JPY price point that he set for himself as an 'affordable' watch (even if the chronograph and the Grand Akane pulled higher prices). And with the time-limited release it's more democratic and gets more watches out there in the hands of people who want them.
> 
> I love the color but I have the MING in Burgundy coming in a few months and I also have the Reiwa Copper and the cream-dialed classic. So besides already having plenty of watches, I already have a red Chrono Tokyo and a monochrome dial. But I hope other folks will jump on the opportunity.


I have the SUF Salmon and the Ming Burgundy, but might still go for this one to complete the trifecta of "prestige" affordables


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Drebs said:


> I can't get myself to want to spend $1700+ on a watch with a Miyota movement.


Fair point, but I think nobody chasing movement value would go for a Kurono or Ming anyway. It's essentially a design-centric watch.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I have the SUF Salmon and the Ming Burgundy, but might still go for this one to complete the trifecta of "prestige" affordables


I look forward to seeing a shot of these three side-by-side. That is a serious trifecta!


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> I look forward to seeing a shot of these three side-by-side. That is a serious trifecta!


Oh yes, will definitely post some pics (when the Ming finally arrives). Really wished it was the Mori (green), blue 17.09 and salmon SUF instead. That looks so perfect in my head!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I have the SUF Salmon and the Ming Burgundy, but might still go for this one to complete the trifecta of "prestige" affordables


Replying to myself a little bit here, but I was also thinking Chrono is getting a lot of mileage out of there design. So far they have used only two different cases (the one for the three hand watch and the one for the chronograph) and three dial designs (the classic and the reiwa are essentially the same dial but the reiwa is two-toned, and the akane has the same dial design as the bullseye, and then there's the chronograph).

It works to go back to the classic dial for a wider release but I would hope that for their next release they bring something fresh to keep progressing their design language (kind of like what they did with the Grand Akane dial on the bullseye base).

(Or maybe I don't want them to because then I would have trouble convincing myself not to buy it.)

MING has done a lot to change their design language and offer different variations on case/hands/movement/dial/etc. (especially if you factor in their Special Projects Cave) so if you factor in the time they put in to R&D it justifies some of the price increase.

Or think about Jason at Halios who is coming up with new stuff all the time, and even when he goes back to an old watch he is trying to tinker with it and bring something fresh to that iteration (a recent post on instagram on the next Seaforth says he is thinking of titanium cases).

The negative example would be like a Unimatic where they have basically two case designs and just keep recycling different dial options in limited releases (they have the Due which is their 'field watch' style case, the Uno which is the classic dive watch, and then a couple of variations on that, one a chronograph and another the dive watch but without a rotating bezel).


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## monsters (Mar 28, 2010)

conrad227 said:


> Replying to myself a little bit here, but I was also thinking Chrono is getting a lot of mileage out of there design. So far they have used only two different cases (the one for the three hand watch and the one for the chronograph) and three dial designs (the classic and the reiwa are essentially the same dial but the reiwa is two-toned, and the akane has the same dial design as the bullseye, and then there's the chronograph).
> 
> It works to go back to the classic dial for a wider release but I would hope that for their next release they bring something fresh to keep progressing their design language (kind of like what they did with the Grand Akane dial on the bullseye base).
> 
> ...


Totally agree here. Ming somehow makes it feel fresh and differentiated every time (though my wife, or any layman, would beg to differ and say they all look the same). The consistent design language is applied in many ways to come out with a different feel, even when the watches are substantially the same (e.g. the copper and the monolith, of the same generation)

I hope Kurono retires the reiwa design too to come up with the next gorgeous watch


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

I think its somewhat unfair to expect small independent watchmakers like Kurono to innovate on their case designs in a matter of a few years when the big boys don't for decades. That aside, I would like to see an evolution of the design. They went from classic to two tone Reiwa and then back to classic. Now the marketing team seems to be stressing "The 316L high-polished stainless steel", but its looks to be the same as its always been. The straps that ship with the watches are rubbish and some kind of integrated SS bracelet that fits the classic would be nice.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

todoroki said:


> I think its somewhat unfair to expect small independent watchmakers like Kurono to innovate on their case designs in a matter of a few years when the big boys don't for decades. That aside, I would like to see an evolution of the design. They went from classic to two tone Reiwa and then back to classic. Now the marketing team seems to be stressing "The 316L high-polished stainless steel", but its looks to be the same as its always been. The straps that ship with the watches are rubbish and some kind of integrated SS bracelet that fits the classic would be nice.


Since he isn't machining it himself and is outsourcing it to a third party capable of producing in volume, I don't see why not. Microbrands are able to put out at least 2-3 different cases a year, and operate on far smaller budgets. But Hajime is known to be someone that makes slow and gradual strides, so this shouldn't really come as a surprise.

Ming needs to stay at the cutting edge, because that's what people love about the brand. I think Kurono can get away with minor facelifts for a long time, as long as there is some design evolution in the cases and/or machinery. Personally, I love both cases on the three hander and chronograph. I would like to see them get away from the Miyota 90S5 though. While it is a very capable movement, it just does not feel like a $1800 watch should feel.


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## Silvek (Nov 22, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> I would like to see them get away from the Miyota 90S5 though. While it is a very capable movement, it just does not feel like a $1800 watch should feel.


Miyota lists the accuracy range as -10s to +30s. Does anyone know if Kurono regulates the 90S5 to a tighter tolerance?


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

The case on the Tokyo classic three hander is wonderful. The only thing I would change would be some drilled lugs to make it easier to change straps. Stating the obvious here, but the chronograph case could really do with slimming down. I own the reverse panda myself and love the compact feel, but switching to a manual wind and shaving off a few mm would take it to the next level.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I love the Toki color and I am really contemplating buying one if no problem with the ordering process. My two concerns are the size and the movement. I have differently sized watches, but I from my wearing pattern I've come to understand that those below 40mm rarely find wrist time. Dress watches stay mainly in the watch boxes too. My wrist is 7.25 and not very big, but 37 is a vintage size and wears too small for my taste. And Miyota on a 1800$ + EU VAT watch is ridiculous to be honest. I own other 9xxx series and they are OK, but I really hate the one direction winding and the spinning sound in the opposite one. The accuracy does not bother me, but the watch is too expensive for its movement. I understand that the price is well deserved considering the design and execution, but nonetheless I find Miyota a grate misbalance in a watch of such class. So I have 4 days to ponder upon the purchase


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

svetoslav said:


> I love the Toki color and I am really contemplating buying one if no problem with the ordering process. My two concerns are the size and the movement. I have differently sized watches, but I from my wearing pattern I've come to understand that those below 40mm rarely find wrist time. Dress watches stay mainly in the watch boxes too. My wrist is 7.25 and not very big, but 37 is a vintage size and wears too small for my taste. And Miyota on a 1800$ + EU VAT watch is ridiculous to be honest. I own other 9xxx series and they are OK, but I really hate the one direction winding and the spinning sound in the opposite one. The accuracy does not bother me, but the watch is too expensive for its movement. I understand that the price is well deserved considering the design and execution, but nonetheless I find Miyota a grate misbalance in a watch of such class. So I have 4 days to ponder upon the purchase


Understand your reservations concerning size and movement. The price however is a non-issue as going on past history it will double or triple its value after orders close at 23:10 JST.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

todoroki said:


> Understand your reservations concerning size and movement. The price however is a non-issue as going on past history it will double or triple its value after orders close at 23:10 JST.


Past releases were always number limited, this one is time limited and I suppose Toki numbers could easily exceed 1000 or even 2000, which will not propel its future price as much and exactly that is the purpose of those 10 minutes  Plus I really do not intend to sell the watch if I snag one, I really love the way it looks.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

svetoslav said:


> Past releases were always number limited, this one is time limited and I suppose Toki numbers could easily exceed 1000 or even 2000, which will not propel its future price as much and exactly that is the purpose of those 10 minutes  Plus I really do not intend to sell the watch if I snag one, I really love the way it looks.


The Mori was time limited and one of the least limited models, yet sells for the highest price.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

todoroki said:


> The Mori was time limited and one of the least limited models, yet sells for the highest price.


It was also considered for GPHG and is one of the most striking green watches in existence. I think, similar to the Ming 17.09, the Toki will hold the price well, but I don't see it going for the same premium the Mori is going for (I hope I am wrong, in that case, I would gladly trade the Toki for the Mori).


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> It was also considered for GPHG and is one of the most striking green watches in existence. I think, similar to the Ming 17.09, the Toki will hold the price well, but I don't see it going for the same premium the Mori is going for (I hope I am wrong, in that case, I would gladly trade the Toki for the Mori).


I actually do not care, I will not resell or trade it so I have to put aside 1800$ plus 20% VAT. I honestly find Toki much more beautiful than Mori. I like the green of Mori pretty much, but I have many green watches and not a single salmon one. I did not even try buying Mori last year, because was not in a position to spend such an amount. I understand there are watch lovers eager to pay 2x and even 3x the retail price, but I am not one of them. For me even the retail is significant


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Fair point, but I think nobody chasing movement value would go for a Kurono or Ming anyway. It's essentially a design-centric watch.


True. But I did go for the Ming 17.09 blue.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Drebs said:


> True. But I did go for the Ming 17.09 blue.


Not sure Sellitas stand much above Miyota top grade. I like Mings, but they are too fashion for my taste, design over function


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## Histrionics (Feb 5, 2021)

svetoslav said:


> Not sure Sellitas stand much above Miyota top grade.


How much better would a Selitta or even an ETA be over the Miyota?

I'm still working my way up the learning curve when it comes to movements, so I still struggle with value comparisons on them.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Histrionics said:


> How much better would a Selitta or even an ETA be over the Miyota?
> 
> I'm still working my way up the learning curve when it comes to movements, so I still struggle with value comparisons on them.


A Sellita/ETA at the top or COSC grade level are reasonably impressive, both to look at, and from a performance perspective. The _Miyota 90S5_ operates within a larger range of performance values (*-10 to +30 *sec per day) versus *-5 to +15spd* on a top grade and *-4 to +6* on COSC grade _ETA2824-2_. From experience, my Miyota 9 series watches typically run at between +10 and +20 spd, whereas my ETA/Sellita watches remain under +10spd, standard grade included. Both movements are easy to service and regulate across the globe, with the 90S5 being cheaper than a top or COSC grade ETA2824-2, both at wholesale and retail. The 90S5 is touted as being in Miyota's premium movement lineup, but there's nothing really premium about it's appearance:









And this is a top grade ETA2824-2:








I will admit it isn't fair to compare these two movements, but the 90S5 seems to be the best Miyota has to offer, and it's just not "high end" enough. Citizen (who own Miyota) even avoided their own movements for their recent (and more expensive) watches, and decided to go with a La-Joux Perret movement instead. But those watches are $5k+, so again not the same ballpark.

But for me the real issue with the Miyota 90S5 is the wobble. On larger watches that have beefier/heavier/thicker cases (Zelos divers, etc) this doesn't really impact the wearing experience. But on a delicate and sleek case like the Kurono 3 handers, this is amplified. A slight jerk, and the watch goes into freespin (since it is a unidirectional wind movement) and the whole case starts to shake. I even grabbed this on video (Go to 6:00 - 



). It takes away from the whole experience, in my opinion.

I've made peace with the fact that Kurono can't really do better right now (unless Seiko helps out by making some of their other movements available for commercial use) as long as they want to keep the watches entirely Japanese Made. That said, I will be getting a Toki because I think it looks fantastic, but I will be going into this with zero expectations from the movement.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

These tolerances of different mass produced movements are misleading btw. They depend on the regulation efforts even more than on the inherent capability of keeping a steady and small deviation. How accurate is a movement that for the every 24 hours gives the following deviations - +50secs, +48 secs, + 51 secs and ... you get the point


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## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

singularityseven said:


> A Sellita/ETA at the top or COSC grade level are reasonably impressive, both to look at, and from a performance perspective. The _Miyota 90S5_ operates within a larger range of performance values (*-10 to +30 *sec per day) versus *-5 to +15spd* on a top grade and *-4 to +6* on COSC grade _ETA2824-2_. From experience, my Miyota 9 series watches typically run at between +10 and +20 spd, whereas my ETA/Sellita watches remain under +10spd, standard grade included. Both movements are easy to service and regulate across the globe, with the 90S5 being cheaper than a top or COSC grade ETA2824-2, both at wholesale and retail. The 90S5 is touted as being in Miyota's premium movement lineup, but there's nothing really premium about it's appearance:
> View attachment 15887986
> 
> 
> ...


Citizen bought La-Joux Perret specifically to step up their movements above Miyota because they couldn't go raiding FC or Arnold & Son for theirs. I think it's nice they are using Miyota (or Japanese) in a Japanese watch. Heck we've had this discussio with Minase and their peculiar choice of going Swiss. That said, you could decorate and finish that Miyota to be something really nice if you wanted to put in the effort (and costs).

That said, I seem to remember that Miyota has better movements than that, though don't quote me since I'm not really a movement expert


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

svetoslav said:


> These tolerances of different mass produced movements are misleading btw. They depend on the regulation efforts even more than on the inherent capability of keeping a steady and small deviation. How accurate is a movement that for the every 24 hours gives the following deviations - +50secs, +48 secs, + 51 secs and ... you get the point


I understand the problem with averaging, which is why I included some of my own personal experiences. I log my watches with a time-grapher for instantaneous accuracy and iOS app WatchTracker for daily/weekly/monthly accuracy. With my Chrono/Kurono Bullseye, I was observing roughly +15spd instantaneous and about +18spd over a few days.



sleepyhead123 said:


> Citizen bought La-Joux Perret specifically to step up their movements above Miyota because they couldn't go raiding FC or Arnold & Son for theirs. I think it's nice they are using Miyota (or Japanese) in a Japanese watch. Heck we've had this discussio with Minase and their peculiar choice of going Swiss. That said, you could decorate and finish that Miyota to be something really nice if you wanted to put in the effort (and costs).
> 
> That said, I seem to remember that Miyota has better movements than that, though don't quote me since I'm not really a movement expert


Yeah, I think it's an interesting direction they're taking and I'd love to check out one of their LJP equipped watches at some point.

I thought so too, but I wasn't able to find any other movement in their catalogue that might be a better replacement. I'm hoping to be proven wrong, but I couldn't find anything here - Movements | MIYOTA MOVEMENT


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

svetoslav said:


> I actually do not care, I will not resell or trade it so I have to put aside 1800$ plus 20% VAT. I honestly find Toki much more beautiful than Mori. I like the green of Mori pretty much, but I have many green watches and not a single salmon one. I did not even try buying Mori last year, because was not in a position to spend such an amount. I understand there are watch lovers eager to pay 2x and even 3x the retail price, but I am not one of them. For me even the retail is significant


Hmmmm so you say you are not sure about committing to buy it because of concerns with the movement (not worth the price) and size for your wrist. If you do decide to buy it and you realize that your concerns were correct and its too small for your wrist you will not resell or trade it even though you spent a "significant" amount of your hard earned cash on a watch you do not wear and you could likely recoup that cash and put it towards something you will wear.?


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## Drebs (Feb 8, 2021)

svetoslav said:


> Not sure Sellitas stand much above Miyota top grade. I like Mings, but they are too fashion for my taste, design over function


I have an SW200 in a Sinn that is +1 per day. Did I get lucky, probably.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

todoroki said:


> Hmmmm so you say you are not sure about committing to buy it because of concerns with the movement (not worth the price) and size for your wrist. If you do decide to buy it and you realize that your concerns were correct and its too small for your wrist you will not resell or trade it even though you spent a "significant" amount of your hard earned cash on a watch you do not wear and you could likely recoup that cash and put it towards something you will wear.?


Yep, that is exactly what I say  I have a collection of around 100 watches and I do not wear most of them. I never sell a watch, because I love them all, I had an affair with each one of them and do not want to part with even a single one  And I will wear the Toki, definitely not the smallest watch I own, I have some vintage pieces at 32mm and still wear them. I love the dial and the simplicity of Kurono.


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## Tronborg (May 18, 2021)

I’m having a hard time deciding on this watch. On one hand I love the dial and the case - even the size, 37mm. 
But man, I feel like using that movement is almost inexcuseable. The relative inaccuracy is one thing, but I’ve read people saying they are able to hear the “spin sound” of the movement sometimes just from turning their wrist to check the time, turning the steering wheel etc. Given that I don’t own 100 watches, I’m not sure it’s a wise decision for a watch that would get a lot of wrist time. I wish they used a movement of better quality, even if it meant bumping up the prize slightly (I realize Hajime Asaoka has a view of what he considers “affordable”).


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Tronborg said:


> I'm having a hard time deciding on this watch. On one hand I love the dial and the case - even the size, 37mm.
> But man, I feel like using that movement is almost inexcuseable. The relative inaccuracy is one thing, but I've read people saying they are able to hear the "spin sound" of the movement sometimes just from turning their wrist to check the time, turning the steering wheel etc. Given that I don't own 100 watches, I'm not sure it's a wise decision for a watch that would get a lot of wrist time. I wish they used a movement of better quality, even if it meant bumping up the prize slightly (I realize Hajime Asaoka has a view of what he considers "affordable").


I hear most of my auto ETAs too. I think small and thin watches should be preferably handwinding. The thinnest automatic watch I have is my Ebel and its Lemania movement is soooo quiet. But that is an exception. ETAs and Miyotas in thick diver's cases are inaudible mainly too.


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## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

singularityseven said:


> I understand the problem with averaging, which is why I included some of my own personal experiences. I log my watches with a time-grapher for instantaneous accuracy and iOS app WatchTracker for daily/weekly/monthly accuracy. With my Chrono/Kurono Bullseye, I was observing roughly +15spd instantaneous and about +18spd over a few days.
> 
> Yeah, I think it's an interesting direction they're taking and I'd love to check out one of their LJP equipped watches at some point.
> 
> I thought so too, but I wasn't able to find any other movement in their catalogue that might be a better replacement. I'm hoping to be proven wrong, but I couldn't find anything here - Movements | MIYOTA MOVEMENT


It's funny how they do actually decorate the entire front of the 90S5 (open heart) when only a small portion of it is visible but the back is ugly as heck. Actually some of their standards look better than the premiums . . .


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

So is the 7mm height correct? Movement tear sheet says minimum watch height of ~8.5mm and the photos don’t look like a particularly thin case.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

nitron135 said:


> So is the 7mm height correct? Movement tear sheet says minimum watch height of ~8.5mm and the photos don't look like a particularly thin case.


I assume that its 7mm not including the crystal. There's gotta be a typo on their part, because it definitely looks thicker than 7mm to me, which is good IMO. 7mm would be crazy thin.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

nitron135 said:


> So is the 7mm height correct? Movement tear sheet says minimum watch height of ~8.5mm and the photos don't look like a particularly thin case.


Assuming it is similarly proportioned to the Bullseye I owned/reviewed, it will be 10.5mm from top to bottom (including crystal and caseback).


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Assuming it is similarly proportioned to the Bullseye I owned/reviewed, it will be 10.5mm from top to bottom (including crystal and caseback).


The Kurono website claims 7mm including crystal, which would be very impressive - technically walking into the ultra-thin territory. 10.5mm sounds more believable.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> The Kurono website claims 7mm including crystal, which would be very impressive - technically walking into the ultra-thin territory. 10.5mm sounds more believable.


Exactly.. maybe they meant without crystal? Case doesn't look like an ultra thin at all. How is it that none of the watch blogs asked them?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

nitron135 said:


> Exactly.. maybe they meant without crystal? Case doesn't look like an ultra thin at all. How is it that none of the watch blogs asked them?


I don't know, but website says 7mm incl crystal

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

There is an article by 'wornandwound' which states that the thickness is 11mm including the crystal. Not posting a link as unsure if it violates forum rules. But should be pretty easy to search for it. Posted below is a snipping of the section where they mention it.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

WizardofWatch said:


> There is an article by 'wornandwound' which states that the thickness is 11mm including the crystal. Not posting a link as unsure if it violates forum rules. But should be pretty easy to search for it. Posted below is a snipping of the section where they mention it.
> View attachment 15890269


Ah, thanks. Wonder if they updated it, thought it said 7 when I read it earlier. Maybe not . 11 I believe.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

nitron135 said:


> Ah, thanks. Wonder if they updated it, thought it said 7 when I read it earlier. Maybe not . 11 I believe.


The Kurono Tokyo website still says 7mm inclusive of crystal. So I guess it's a typo on their end. At least the other publications have started posting the correct specs.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> The Kurono website claims 7mm including crystal, which would be very impressive - technically walking into the ultra-thin territory. 10.5mm sounds more believable.


Interesting. I just looked at my own review for the Bullseye and found 10.5mm in my notes. I do measure them myself, and I am entirely capable of being wrong, so this could be a mistake on my end. I will say that I'm currently wearing a Ming 27.01 that is about 7mm, and the Kurono was definitely thicker than this.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Interesting. I just looked at my own review for the Bullseye and found 10.5mm in my notes. I do measure them myself, and I am entirely capable of being wrong, so this could be a mistake on my end. I will say that I'm currently wearing a Ming 27.01 that is about 7mm, and the Kurono was definitely thicker than this.


oh that's kinda disappointing, i saw that 7mm and I was like, oh yeah great, I can add a super thin watch....


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Ebel Senior automatic is 8.4mm and is one of the thinest watches I own, its auto movement is a hair under 3mm and the crystal is not that domed, so I suppose Kurono is almost the same, but with a 2mm sapphire.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> A Sellita/ETA at the top or COSC grade level are reasonably impressive, both to look at, and from a performance perspective. The _Miyota 90S5_ operates within a larger range of performance values (*-10 to +30 *sec per day) versus *-5 to +15spd* on a top grade and *-4 to +6* on COSC grade _ETA2824-2_. From experience, my Miyota 9 series watches typically run at between +10 and +20 spd, whereas my ETA/Sellita watches remain under +10spd, standard grade included. Both movements are easy to service and regulate across the globe, with the 90S5 being cheaper than a top or COSC grade ETA2824-2, both at wholesale and retail. The 90S5 is touted as being in Miyota's premium movement lineup, but there's nothing really premium about it's appearance:


Wonder if anyone has a Mori or other and has had it on a timegrapher? search online but couldnt find


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## Piter De Vries (Apr 18, 2019)

All this movement talk....don't the Toki, Mori et al, all come with closed casebacks?
Seems redundant to worry about how boring the Miyota might look vs the Sellita?


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Piter De Vries said:


> All this movement talk....don't the Toki, Mori et al, all come with closed casebacks?
> Seems redundant to worry about how boring the Miyota might look vs the Sellita?


I absolutely agree, Kurono watches are not about the movements ... at all. Kinda like a Supra with a Yaris engine  I am also not excited about Miyota, but am excited about the watch.


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## Histrionics (Feb 5, 2021)

Crap, this dial colour is starting to grow on me...


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Interesting. I just looked at my own review for the Bullseye and found 10.5mm in my notes. I do measure them myself, and I am entirely capable of being wrong, so this could be a mistake on my end. I will say that I'm currently wearing a Ming 27.01 that is about 7mm, and the Kurono was definitely thicker than this.


I got very very excited when I saw 7mm (incl crystal) on their website, because that would make it even thinner than my SUF. But I don't see the reason how it would be that much thinner than the Bullseye you measured.


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## warsh (May 22, 2017)

HELP! I think this is a great looking watch, but I have two questions I'd like your advice on:

1) Is the pricing justified based on the credentials of the designer and the fact that his higher end stuff sells for tens of thousands of dollars? Normally I would not pay this price for a watch with this movement.....
2) I already own a lovely salmon dial watch --- this Baltic collaboration with Worn and Wound (photo below). Isn't the Toki too similar for me to buy it?

Thanks for your advice!!








(not my photo)


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

warsh said:


> HELP! I think this is a great looking watch, but I have two questions I'd like your advice on:
> 
> 1) Is the pricing justified based on the credentials of the designer and the fact that his higher end stuff sells for tens of thousands of dollars? Normally I would not pay this price for a watch with this movement.....
> 2) I already own a lovely salmon dial watch --- this Baltic collaboration with Worn and Wound (photo below). Isn't the Toki too similar for me to buy it?
> ...


For point 1) I would say if you like the design - go for it. I heard the same argument against the SUF 180 and it's my favorite watch in the collection right now (even against my beloved El Primero). 
2) Similar to your situation, I have the SUF 180 Frosted Salmon. I am still going for the Toki due to:

I trust Asaoka that the color will be different from "Western Salmon"
My planned collection is large enough to fit 2 similar-but-not-identical watches, this point might be different for you


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

warsh said:


> HELP! I think this is a great looking watch, but I have two questions I'd like your advice on:
> 
> 1) Is the pricing justified based on the credentials of the designer and the fact that his higher end stuff sells for tens of thousands of dollars? Normally I would not pay this price for a watch with this movement.....
> 2) I already own a lovely salmon dial watch --- this Baltic collaboration with Worn and Wound (photo below). Isn't the Toki too similar for me to buy it?
> ...


I have the same Baltic but with the "normal" color sector dial. While its nice, I'm expecting the kurono to have a more refined case and dial finishing. Also I don't like the ghost position on the crown on the baltic, and overall I found the baltic nice and well done, but a little generic on the case, and expect this to be a step up.

For you, you're in an even better position since you have the salmon one, you could easily just get the kurono and if you find that it can cover off the role of the baltic for you, the salmon baltic also can be sold quite easily 2nd hand for a nice profit


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## Tronborg (May 18, 2021)

Piter De Vries said:


> All this movement talk....don't the Toki, Mori et al, all come with closed casebacks?
> Seems redundant to worry about how boring the Miyota might look vs the Sellita?


You're definitely right about the looks of the movement being unimportant. Likewise I agree with an above poster, that Kuronos are not bought for the movement.
Talking about the movement is not redundant though. If this watch is going to be one to wear daily, maybe in an office environment etc., from a practical standpoint, it matters if you can hear the movement spin, simply by turning the wrist. For feeling when you're wearing it, it's important to know whether you feel it "shake" on your wrist when you do so. 
Likewise, it's relevant if it's running at +15-20 seconds, when watches in the same price range can be found with much better timekeeping.
In my opinion this is all very relevant when you plan to have this watch as part of a 2 maybe 3 watch collection for quite a while.
Unfortunately, it seems to have become fairely clear that this watch is for the collector with multiple watches, who can afford to have a watch only for the design and who doesn't plan to wear it daily. 
While the watch is not bought for the movement, with a price tag like that, the movement shouldn't be as bad as it is. Just my 0.02.

I hope everyone has a smoothe buying experience tomorrow!


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## Piter De Vries (Apr 18, 2019)

Tronborg said:


> You're definitely right about the looks of the movement being unimportant. Likewise I agree with an above poster, that Kuronos are not bought for the movement.
> Talking about the movement is not redundant though. If this watch is going to be one to wear daily, maybe in an office environment etc., from a practical standpoint, it matters if you can hear the movement spin, simply by turning the wrist. For feeling when you're wearing it, it's important to know whether you feel it "shake" on your wrist when you do so.
> Likewise, it's relevant if it's running at +15-20 seconds, when watches in the same price range can be found with much better timekeeping.
> In my opinion this is all very relevant when you plan to have this watch as part of a 2 maybe 3 watch collection for quite a while.
> ...


Redundant to talk about movement _finishing _or _beauty _due to it being hidden.
I totally agree about the technical aspects you stated. Never owned a Miyota though, so what do I know?!


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I have a REC Mustang watch with Miyota 9015 and many Citizen vintage watches. Never had a problem and they are all very reliable movements. I must point out again. If a watch is 30 seconds fast a day, but it is exactly 30 seconds every day it means it is very very accurate. It can be regulated to be 0 seconds daily  Most of the movements are mass produces and when a acceptable daily deviation is stated it is a tolerance that every single movement must fall into. Thus -20/+30 does not mean one single watch will vary in that span. One will be -20/-10 other 0/+10, third +15/+30 and so on. The actual precision is those 10 or 15 seconds between the particular watch daily variation.


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## warsh (May 22, 2017)

[Deleted this post which was mistakenly posted in the wrong thread]


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

warsh said:


> I've been pleasantly surprised by the accuracy of my Universa. Over the past 8 days, it's averaged a gain of 1.4 seconds per day as per the Watchtracker app. During that time, the watch has been fully wound each morning and mostly worn all day every day. It rests dial up at night.
> 
> The Halios website doesn't say which grade of the Selita SW210-1 movement is used, but the standard grade is rated at +/- 12-30 seconds per day. Even the top grade is rated at +/- 4-15 seconds per day. Does anyone know what grade Jason uses and if he regulates the movements to improve accuracy, or if I just got lucky with mine?


Not sure if you posted in the right thread 😂 You might be able to find out by asking @kinothewatchmaker on Instagram. He's been doing a lot of the assembling from Roldorf.


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## warsh (May 22, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> Not sure if you posted in the right thread 😂 You might be able to find out by asking @kinothewatchmaker on Instagram. He's been doing a lot of the assembling from Roldorf.


ooops! Apologies for posting this in the wrong thread. I'll delete the original post.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

singularityseven said:


> A Sellita/ETA at the top or COSC grade level are reasonably impressive, both to look at, and from a performance perspective. The _Miyota 90S5_ operates within a larger range of performance values (*-10 to +30 *sec per day) versus *-5 to +15spd* on a top grade and *-4 to +6* on COSC grade _ETA2824-2_. From experience, my Miyota 9 series watches typically run at between +10 and +20 spd, whereas my ETA/Sellita watches remain under +10spd, standard grade included. Both movements are easy to service and regulate across the globe, with the 90S5 being cheaper than a top or COSC grade ETA2824-2, both at wholesale and retail. The 90S5 is touted as being in Miyota's premium movement lineup, but there's nothing really premium about it's appearance:
> View attachment 15887986
> 
> 
> ...


I may have just been lucky but my Kurono chronograph 2 is running +2 secs fast (Seiko movement). I was expecting more like +15 or so. I think the specs were in that range.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

moheel said:


> I may have just been lucky but my Kurono chronograph 2 is running +2 secs fast (Seiko movement). I was expecting more like +15 or so. I think the specs were in that range.


I measured roughly *+7 spd* in the dial-up position, and roughly *+4 spd* in the crown-up position on my Chronograph 1.


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

Piter De Vries said:


> Saw the Mori for sale here and just shook my head. Launch price was similar to the Toki if memory serves, and the seller here wanted about 3x that.
> I guess I just had my first scalper experience.
> 
> The Toki looks lovely, but it will be snatched up by jag-offs in the 10 minute buying window and then sold _a-la-Rolex _for stupid money later.
> Parts of this hobby really suck.


maybe, but imo this doesn't have the hallmarks of a can't miss flip or fomo.

it's not exactly inexpensive/value oriented for what you get as well. selling over 1000/2000 of them is going to deflate the resale market a lot more than a 150 piece run.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Tronborg said:


> You're definitely right about the looks of the movement being unimportant. Likewise I agree with an above poster, that Kuronos are not bought for the movement.
> Talking about the movement is not redundant though. If this watch is going to be one to wear daily, maybe in an office environment etc., from a practical standpoint, it matters if you can hear the movement spin, simply by turning the wrist. For feeling when you're wearing it, it's important to know whether you feel it "shake" on your wrist when you do so.
> Likewise, it's relevant if it's running at +15-20 seconds, when watches in the same price range can be found with much better timekeeping.
> In my opinion this is all very relevant when you plan to have this watch as part of a 2 maybe 3 watch collection for quite a while.
> ...


although, I t think its quite rare if anyone really does a salmon dial as a daily wearer in a one watch collection though, so being targetted to multi watch collector is probably the right approach...


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## lookitzduncs (Jul 10, 2019)

monsters said:


> Totally agree here. Ming somehow makes it feel fresh and differentiated every time (though my wife, or any layman, would beg to differ and say they all look the same). The consistent design language is applied in many ways to come out with a different feel, even when the watches are substantially the same (e.g. the copper and the monolith, of the same generation)
> 
> I hope Kurono retires the reiwa design too to come up with the next gorgeous watch


I think the key difference between Ming and Kurono is that Ming is 100% a design oriented watch. Kuronono is design oriented too but the key is that Asaoka-san is a world renown watchmaker and many who bought kurono do it because that's their only way to get anything from the man without spending 50k+. Ming has to keep innovating (and they're doing a great job at it) as they simply don't have the same name clout or signifance behind it.

Kurono is wisely playing to their strengths and I don't think they should innovate as quickly as Ming. People want something from Hajime Asaoka and if he opts to rush out new designs rather than really define his artistic style, then kuronos won't feel special. The reason kurono exists is precisely for Asaoka watches for the masses.


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## EAT 2824 (Jan 18, 2008)

Looks like I'm safe since I find the watch completely unappealing 

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

EAT 2824 said:


> Looks like I'm safe since I find the watch completely unappealing
> 
> Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk


You are safe from good taste


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## TheMagicPancake (Dec 8, 2012)

Maybe 2022 will be the year of the blue Kurono.


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## l66666 (Feb 5, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> Interesting. I just looked at my own review for the Bullseye and found 10.5mm in my notes. I do measure them myself, and I am entirely capable of being wrong, so this could be a mistake on my end. I will say that I'm currently wearing a Ming 27.01 that is about 7mm, and the Kurono was definitely thicker than this.


From pictures this Toki edition can't possibly be 7 mm thick including crystal.
Your measure made on the Bullseye is surely right, or really close to real measure.


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## l66666 (Feb 5, 2017)

Anyhow I really like this edition.
I'm gonna try and get it.


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## l66666 (Feb 5, 2017)

I tried a Miyota 90S5 caliber on a friend's watch. It was very well regulated and quite accurate.
It is reported to be a very reliable caliber, a real workhorse.
Just don't remeber about rumorosity of the oscillating mass, like in other (lower end) Miyota movements... Has someone some feedback on this?


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## 92gli (Nov 18, 2011)

l66666 said:


> I tried a Miyota 90S5 caliber on a friend's watch. It was very well regulated and quite accurate.
> It is reported to be a very reliable caliber, a real workhorse.
> Just don't remeber about rumorosity of the oscillating mass, like in other (lower end) Miyota movements... Has someone some feedback on this?


It's due to the unidirectional winding. A certain arm movement can get the rotor spinning very quickly in the opposite direction. I have felt it now and then but it doesn't bother me one bit. I have had three different models with the movements. It was most noticeable in the Lorier Falcon 2, not so much in the heavier divers. This watch, at only 7mm thick, has to be very light weight. It could be very noticeable with these. (Edit... I just saw that these are very likely not 7mm thick)


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Just received an email stating that deliveries might stretch out up to 1 year if many purchases  Really not sure a great decision with those 10 minutes. It is better to have limited numbers and at least you will know if you fail to get one. This way you could not know if your order falls into the already produced numbers or you will have to wait a year. I would gladly buy the watch in the first case, but if I buy it and it happens it is the second case I'd rather not.


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## Ayreonaut (Jan 22, 2011)

"For 朱鷺:TOKI, I wanted a more refined colour that was uniquely Japanese," Asaoka explained. "The colour would be copper-based, but it could not be the 'salmon-colour' that the Western world was so fond of. I decided to base the colour on the feathers of the Japanese crested ibis - 朱鷺色(Toki-iro)- which is the characteristic peach-colored hue seen as the ibis flies overhead." - Hajime Asaoka


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

92gli said:


> It's due to the unidirectional winding. A certain arm movement can get the rotor spinning very quickly in the opposite direction. I have felt it now and then but it doesn't bother me one bit. I have had three different models with the movements. It was most noticeable in the Lorier Falcon 2, not so much in the heavier divers. This watch, at only 7mm thick, has to be very light weight. It could be very noticeable with these. (Edit... I just saw that these are very likely not 7mm thick)


I have a myota 9015 in a Batlic HMS 002 -- i've never really noticed this issue. Although I notice it in my Swatch Sistem51  I find it kinda satisfying to hear though, even when I have a big plastic beater watch, I get reassured its mechanical...


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

No 4838


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Order #45XX here... I wonder what number was the first order placed...


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

my order is in, 10:06  wow you guys are fast .... order 65xx.... I wonder if they are in sequence or they also randomize these...


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

You guys are slow  449x


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

Also an order 65## .. congrats ppl


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## fuzzylemon (Dec 4, 2016)

My number was in the 43XX range. There’s quite the spread so far. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

My order is 42##. Got mine in around 1min 20 seconds in. That is quite a spread and don't know if this is random (but suspect not based on previous purchases. They seem to be sequential). Edited to add: Congrats everyone who scored one!


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

65## and I don't think they are sequential  The pre-order became available 2 minutes later and I lost another minute with failed Apple Pay quick checkout


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Mine in 54xx. I was a fool and used my laptop instead of my phone. Would have saved precious seconds using Apple pay instead of manually entering details! smh.
Anyways, it’s done. Let’s see when it gets delivered now.


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

Who's going for a ming x massena too lol


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> 65## and I don't think they are sequential


Shopify orders are absolutely sequential. It's hard to change without dev and based on his site, he does not have extensive dev resources.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

svetoslav said:


> 65## and I don't think they are sequential


Haha. Don't we wish!


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## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

Mine is 59XX. Did you all get charged with taxes?


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## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

JPY189,900 + shipping + tax (7%)
The tax is similar to my country's GST.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

WatchEater666 said:


> Shopify orders are absolutely sequential. It's hard to change without dev and based on his site, he does not have extensive dev resources.


You mean 6000+ watches?


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

BRAUN XXIII said:


> JPY189,900 + shipping + tax (7%)
> The tax is similar to my country's GST.


No taxes. Though I did end up paying import duties on the last Kurono I bought. May not need to on this one since it's less than $2000


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

svetoslav said:


> You mean 6000+ watches?


No... the last Kurono I bought had an order number of 21##. A strap I purchased after that was in the 34##. So assuming these started around 4###


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> You mean 6000+ watches?


No, it goes by ALL orders over the lifetime of a Shopify store (unless reset).

So that's all orders ever placed on his store.


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## TracerBullet (Jul 1, 2018)

This morning before ordering I called my credit card company for a heads-up on the purchase and provided all details. I entered my info at 2 minutes after. The credit card company flagged the purchase as fraudulent. It took 20 minutes to get the fraud alert removed. I did not get the watch. Maybe one will come up for sale at a reasonable price - although that doesn't seem likely.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

WatchEater666 said:


> No, it goes by ALL orders over the lifetime of a Shopify store (unless reset).
> 
> So that's all orders ever placed on his store.


So I see the lowest reported number is 449# and if we know the highest we would be able to calculate the edition


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

svetoslav said:


> So I see the lowest reported number is 449# and if we know the highest we would be able to calculate the edition


Exactly. Lowest reported I see right now is mine (42xx) though I doubt I was first since it took me a minute to get the order in. I suspect we're looking at ~2000-2500 watches.


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> So I see the lowest reported number is 449# and if we know the highest we would be able to calculate the edition


Yup. Lowest I've seen though is 42xx.


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## Commando Cotman (Sep 18, 2020)

Missed out on the Toki, so very very disappointed. Did everything right, clicked confirm order button at 12:01 but then got stuck on a "Your order's being processed" screen for several minutes. I didn't want to touch it for fear of losing my place in the queue, and didn't want to try again on my other device for fear that I'd be flagged for making multiple purchases and being charged a re-stocking fee which Kurono threatened all over their website in the pop-ups. Started panicking at 12:07 and after it had rejected two of my credit card payment purchases, it was 12:10 and was no longer available. Absolutely gutted.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

#46xx at 10:02

Sounds like 2~3000 edition.

With the coverage, has the feel of Woodstock of this hype collector generation


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Managed to get my order in. Finally will get to own at least a Ming and Kurono each by next year!


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

moheel said:


> Exactly. Lowest reported I see right now is mine (42xx) though I doubt I was first since it took me a minute to get the order in. I suspect we're looking at ~2000-2500 watches.


Yep, I think 3k the most and mine is at the tail  I'll wait a year maybe


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

They just posted this. Looks like if you ordered on the tail end, you will be waiting a while...

The following is guidance for estimated deliveries:
Mid-Jun thru Jul: 35% of orders
Aug thru Sep: 25% of orders
Oct thru Nov: 20% of orders
Dec thru Jan: 20% of orders"


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Commando Cotman said:


> Missed out on the Toki, so very very disappointed. Did everything right, clicked confirm order button at 12:01 but then got stuck on a "Your order's being processed" screen for several minutes. I didn't want to touch it for fear of losing my place in the queue, and didn't want to try again on my other device for fear that I'd be flagged for making multiple purchases and being charged a re-stocking fee which Kurono threatened all over their website in the pop-ups. Started panicking at 12:07 and after it had rejected two of my credit card payment purchases, it was 12:10 and was no longer available. Absolutely gutted.


Sorry to hear. That's rough.


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## l66666 (Feb 5, 2017)

TracerBullet said:


> This morning before ordering I called my credit card company for a heads-up on the purchase and provided all details. I entered my info at 2 minutes after. The credit card company flagged the purchase as fraudulent. It took 20 minutes to get the fraud alert removed. I did not get the watch. Maybe one will come up for sale at a reasonable price - although that doesn't seem likely.


That's very annoying. I'm really sorry.


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## Commando Cotman (Sep 18, 2020)

moheel said:


> Sorry to hear. That's rough.


Thanks for your sympathy, I was really looking forward to this one. Congrats to everyone who secured one! Such a nice release.


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## l66666 (Feb 5, 2017)

Highest I've been told about is 66XX...


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

Commando Cotman said:


> Thanks for your sympathy, I was really looking forward to this one. Congrats to everyone who secured one! Such a nice release.


Same thing happen to my friend who tried buying, which is weird because he was using an American card linked to the same shipping address. I used a Canadian card linked to my US address without any issues :\


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

WatchEater666 said:


> They just posted this. Looks like if you ordered on the tail end, you will be waiting a while...
> 
> The following is guidance for estimated deliveries:
> Mid-Jun thru Jul: 35% of orders
> ...


Rough guess from this is that they had ~1000 ready to go, rest will have to be made.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

disco_nug said:


> Who's going for a ming x massena too lol


i tried to go to the site just for fun (I have a 17.09 incoming) and there was an error... ahhaha guess massena still hasn't learned how to handle the volume


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

moheel said:


> Exactly. Lowest reported I see right now is mine (42xx) though I doubt I was first since it took me a minute to get the order in. I suspect we're looking at ~2000-2500 watches.


wonder if it would have been even higher if the MingxMassena wasn't moved to the same time...


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

WatchEater666 said:


> Shopify orders are absolutely sequential. It's hard to change without dev and based on his site, he does not have extensive dev resources.


so i guess the not publishing the # of watches wont fully mask the volume of this batch after all


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Commando Cotman said:


> Thanks for your sympathy, I was really looking forward to this one. Congrats to everyone who secured one! Such a nice release.


With ~2500+ out there, let's hope that you'll be able to get one reasonably in a few months time.


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> so i guess the not publishing the # of watches wont fully mask the volume of this batch after all


There's other ways to track Shopify specific order volume. I use it with my competitors but it's harder with his set up...


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## DustyFingers (May 23, 2018)

golffoxtrot said:


> i tried to go to the site just for fun (I have a 17.09 incoming) and there was an error... ahhaha guess massena still hasn't learned how to handle the volume


yeah, I've been waiting and this doesn't look very good...lol 
congrats to those that grabbed a Kurono today. Looks beautiful!


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## djyo (May 21, 2021)

_- deleted -_


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## djyo (May 21, 2021)

_- deleted - _


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## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

Sorry to hear for those could not manage to get it. There should be a secondary market this time with much higher number of releases.


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## Jpjsavage (Dec 2, 2011)

I was very pleased to bag one of these. Mid 5000 order number. Fingers crossed for a quick delivery but happy to wait. It looks beautiful and I love the dial color.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

TracerBullet said:


> This morning before ordering I called my credit card company for a heads-up on the purchase and provided all details. I entered my info at 2 minutes after. The credit card company flagged the purchase as fraudulent. It took 20 minutes to get the fraud alert removed. I did not get the watch. Maybe one will come up for sale at a reasonable price - although that doesn't seem likely.


similar thing happened to me. I was at verification code at the 10:03 mark. I used up all my retries for the code and 10:10 and still no verification code. It's now 11:00 still no code.

not sure if my card's fault or does the selling platform influence it somehow.


----------



## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

Pongster said:


> similar thing happened to me. I was at verification code at the 10:03 mark. I used up all my retries for the code and 10:10 and still no verification code. It's now 11:00 still no code.
> 
> not sure if my card's fault or does the selling platform influence it somehow.


Shopify's text verifications are pretty hit and miss. The best way to do this would be to set up a Shop Pay account prior.


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## atomicnumber28 (May 21, 2021)

deleted


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

atomicnumber28 said:


> First time posting, been following this forum for a bit so felt like I should contribute. My order number is in the high 41XX and apparently, someone from another forum has seen a 40XX order. So my guess is roughly 3000-3500 orders were placed.


$4 million in sales in 10 minutes. Oof.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

atomicnumber28 said:


> First time posting, been following this forum for a bit so felt like I should contribute. My order number is in the high 41XX and apparently, someone from another forum has seen a 40XX order. So my guess is roughly 3000-3500 orders were placed.


If 41xx is somewhere around the start, mine is 65xx and is at 11.05 that is 2400 to the mid pre-order time, if checkouts did not slow substantially in the second half of the period I assume it is closer to 5000 pieces  But I actually do not think sales could be extrapolated like that.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

WatchEater666 said:


> Shopify's text verifications are pretty hit and miss. The best way to do this would be to set up a Shop Pay account prior.


so the verification is on the selling platform? Not on my credit card?


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

Pongster said:


> so the verification is on the selling platform? Not on my credit card?


Depends on the antifraud settings he's using


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

WatchEater666 said:


> Depends on the antifraud settings he's using


am still holding out hope. Hehe. Still on the verification page. Still waiting for the OTP.


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

atomicnumber28 said:


> First time posting, been following this forum for a bit so felt like I should contribute. My order number is in the high 41XX and apparently, someone from another forum has seen a 40XX order. So my guess is roughly 3000-3500 orders were placed.


I saw someone on another forum say that the lowest they've seen is 40XX. But I can't seem to find the original post where a purchaser stated that. Lowest I've seen is yours... 41XX.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

It seems I am fairly fast, order 46xx. Hopefully batch 1, but maybe batch 2


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> It seems I am fairly fast, order 46xx. Hopefully batch 1, but maybe batch 2


I think you will be batch 1. If the forum math is right, and there are ~3000 watches, the first batch will be ~1000 watches (35%). You're likely in the first 500 or so.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

moheel said:


> I think you will be batch 1. If the forum math is right, and there are ~3000 watches, the first batch will be ~1000 watches (35%). You're likely in the first 500 or so.


That would be great! Is the 3000 number derived from the difference between ~4000 and the highest reported order number ~65xx?


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> That would be great! Is the 3000 number derived from the difference between ~4000 and the highest reported order number ~65xx?


Correct. I think the highest I've seen is ~71XX but could me misremembering. The highest someone posted here is ~65XX. So we're looking at ~2500-3000 watches.


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## Histrionics (Feb 5, 2021)

moheel said:


> Correct. I think the highest I've seen is ~71XX but could me misremembering. The highest someone posted here is ~65XX. So we're looking at ~2500-3000 watches.


So a wee little back of the napkin math here.

Lets conservatively assume there were 2250 watches sold here. By my rough count of units produced in past releases, there are a total of 1206 Kurono watches current out in the world (not including their JDM watches with different branding).

Which would mean that, once released, 65% of all Kurono watches in the world will be pink bird coloured.

I find that rather endearing. Congrats to everyone who got one. I opted to wait for next year's release, but I look forward to seeing your pictures.


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## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

So happy to have no hiccups but couldn’t find the buy button for several stressful seconds. Mine’s order 44xx


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“what’s life without whimsy”


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

I got it! #55XX ..lucky me.......looking forward to adding this unique piece to my collection...


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## BigMoufPosy (Dec 24, 2016)

moheel said:


> I saw someone on another forum say that the lowest they've seen is 40XX. But I can't seem to find the original post where a purchaser stated that. Lowest I've seen is yours... 41XX.


I purchased the Wakatake-iro strap at the beginning of May right before it sold out and my order # was 41XX, so if these orders are sequential, I don't think it's possible for a Toki order to be below 41XX.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

BigMoufPosy said:


> I purchased the Wakatake-iro strap at the beginning of May right before it sold out and my order # was 41XX, so if these orders are sequential, I don't think it's possible for a Toki order to be below 41XX.


Good data point, that puts the lower bound around ~2600 at least. Huge success for Kurono!


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## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

guillelle said:


> Order #45XX here... I wonder what number was the first order placed...


Order #439x for me. Looking forward to the "expected delivery date" update email soon.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I am starting to seriously doubt this forum math


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## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

disco_nug said:


> Who's going for a ming x massena too lol


My lottery email has been sent. Man, it would be awesome to get in on that one with such low #'s being produced. Odds are long, though.


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## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

Well good luck everyone. Hope you get your watches without too long of a wait. I did the saner thing and just bought another watch before this so I don't have to spam enter on my computer today.  

j/k. Kurono isn't to my tastes (nor is Ming) and I'm not one of those scalpers.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

A moment of consolation for everyone who didn't get one due to credit card issues. That really is too bad. I had a similar issue with Ming/Visa authentication system rejecting my purchase during a 10 minute window so know full well how frustrating that is.

Read the IG comments it seemed to go smoothly. With a planned max 8 months delivery time, I think most people will be satisfied as long as the quality control does not get sloppy.


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## SKYWATCH007 (Oct 2, 2020)

I missed out on this. Wonder if they'll make another one later on...


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

SKYWATCH007 said:


> I missed out on this. Wonder if they'll make another one later on...


not in this specific dial but at this point I'm sure they'll do an anniversary release every year


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## SKYWATCH007 (Oct 2, 2020)

Yea! Wonder what dial colour he'll make next. A light blue would look nice.


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## evenezia (May 6, 2021)

Order #7088, confirmation email at 10.09 so I may have been one of the last to get through the door. And that was after 2 x failed google pay attempts and 2 x failed credit card attempts before I switched to my backup card and having to resend the confirmation sms. Was quite an ordeal!

I may not receive the watch this year but delighted to have one on the way, just in time for the 3rd anniversary watch


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

evenezia said:


> Order #7088, confirmation email at 10.09 so I may have been one of the last to get through the door. And that was after 2 x failed google pay attempts and 2 x failed credit card attempts before I switched to my backup card and having to resend the confirmation sms. Was quite an ordeal!
> 
> I may not receive the watch this year but delighted to have one on the way, just in time for the 3rd anniversary watch


wow 7088? Makes me wonder how many they sold. My order number was in the mid 4000s... so at least anywhere between 2500-3000 at the very least. Based off my quick math they made >4m usd gross profit in 10 minutes.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

DMcMaine said:


> My lottery email has been sent. Man, it would be awesome to get in on that one with such low #'s being produced. Odds are long, though.


same here


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> wow 7088? Makes me wonder how many they sold. My order number was in the mid 4000s... so at least anywhere between 2500-3000 at the very least. Based off my quick math they made >4m usd gross profit in 10 minutes.


It took him a long time to get here though - he deserves it. Years of practicing to become a great watchmaker, and then years to build the brand to this point.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

yellowfury said:


> wow 7088? Makes me wonder how many they sold. My order number was in the mid 4000s... so at least anywhere between 2500-3000 at the very least. Based off my quick math they made >4m usd gross profit in 10 minutes.


but they dont sell continuously. So that 4M would have to be spread out over six months?


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

To think these started off as limited editions of 50 pieces and now hitting close to 4000. Will be interesting to see where they go from here.


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## klaatu47 (Nov 23, 2014)

Mid 5000s here so hopefully in the 2nd batch (Aug-Sept). Looking forward to it. Probably will sell my Copper Reiwa as I think this one may look superior. Really wanted the Mingxmassena Black so hopefully I will hit the lottery!


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## EAT 2824 (Jan 18, 2008)

svetoslav said:


> You are safe from good taste


....if good taste I a 37mm coral sunburst watch. I'm definitely not refined enough for this thread. 🥸

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk


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## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

Those can't get one don't have to take it so seriously, as I think annual release is very much expected. This is not a cheap watch by any definition, though I highly respect the founder and admire his committed dedication for independent watch making. I also really like the way he handles the flippers and traders, unlike others which took a long time to make some conducive change despite numerous emails and much communication. I can see Asaoka san is a person of dignity. This is the spirit which I have been looking for from watch manufacturers.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

BRAUN XXIII said:


> Those can't get one don't have to take it so seriously, as I think annual release is very much expected. This is not a cheap watch by any definition, though I highly respect the founder and admire his committed dedication for independent watch making. I also really like the way he handles the flippers and traders, unlike others which took a long time to make some conducive change despite numerous emails and much communication. I can see Asaoka san is a person of dignity. This is the spirit which I have been looking for from watch manufacturers.


Yep, I absolutely agree, but I am really happy I succeeded buying one myself, because I adore this specific dial colour. Last year's Mori will stay more limited, but I have too many green watches and did not even make an attempt ordering it. As about the flippers. I think they will always exist no matter how hard you try to eradicate them. It is called free market and it always wins. I lived in a plan driven socialist economy and even in it there was black(free) market and some scarce goods (can't remember anything not scarce) resold at multiples their original prices. We waited for russian Lada cars tens of years after pre-order


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## Tronborg (May 18, 2021)

Congrats to anyone who got this!
Inflation is crazy right now, in the ‘real world’ and also in the watch world, but hopefully the 10 minute window worked in keeping the prices at or below MSRP. We will see how it looks for next years anniversary model.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Tronborg said:


> Congrats to anyone who got this!
> Inflation is crazy right now, in the 'real world' and also in the watch world, but hopefully the 10 minute window worked in keeping the prices at or below MSRP. We will see how it looks for next years anniversary model.


Sorry, but prices will be double or triple retail on the secondary market and a ten minute order window does nothing to rectify that.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> wow 7088? Makes me wonder how many they sold. My order number was in the mid 4000s... so at least *anywhere between 2500-3000 *at the very least. Based off my quick math they made >4m usd gross profit in 10 minutes.


Yep. My order number was low- to mid-4000s, and based on my order time, I think I was one of the first orders to get processed. So probably around 3000 sold.

But good for them. I'd rather see the money going to their brand than to a bunch of scalpers/flippers. I think the time-limited sale structure, as long as the website doesn't completely crash and burn (à la Ming), is the fairest way to ensure that enthusiasts who follow the brand have a chance to receive the watch.



Tronborg said:


> Congrats to anyone who got this!
> Inflation is crazy right now, in the 'real world' and also in the watch world, but hopefully the 10 minute window worked in keeping the prices at or below MSRP. We will see how it looks for next years anniversary model.


Highly doubt they'll stay _at_ MSRP (probably will trade for slightly higher on the secondary market), but I don't think they'll be selling for 3-4x retail simply due to the large number sold. Hopefully the smaller profit potential dissuaded the flippers from going after them.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

I guess, personally, am done with Kurono Tokyo. Now am even thinking to not even try and chase a Hajime Asaoka (they dont even respond to queries).


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Pongster said:


> I guess, personally, am done with Kurono Tokyo. Now am even thinking to not even try and chase a Hajime Asaoka (they dont even respond to queries).


Is that because of the Visa card issues, or just a general disenchantment with the direction of the brand?


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

todoroki said:


> Is that because of the Visa card issues, or just a general disenchantment with the direction of the brand?


seems fate doesnt want me to own one more. And i guess i should be happy i have one. There are other brands to explore. For japanese, am also looking at minase.

re Hajime san, am curious why he doesnt even answer. Even Masahiro san was polite enough to answer that his ordering window has long been closed and he was kind enough to chat a bit.


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Pongster said:


> I guess, personally, am done with Kurono Tokyo. Now am even thinking to not even try and chase a Hajime Asaoka (they dont even respond to queries).


If I don't like mine, I'll sell it to you at purchase price

Sent using Tapatalk


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Pongster said:


> seems fate doesnt want me to own one more. And i guess i should be happy i have one. There are other brands to explore. For japanese, am also looking at minase.
> 
> re Hajime san, am curious why he doesnt even answer. Even Masahiro san was polite enough to answer that his ordering window has long been closed and he was kind enough to chat a bit.


Definitely plenty of other brands to explore. I hear you. 
With Asaoka san, he has always replied promptly and politely to any of my inquiries albeit they were in Japanese.


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## Tronborg (May 18, 2021)

todoroki said:


> Sorry, but prices will be double or triple retail on the secondary market and a ten minute order window does nothing to rectify that.


Your proposition that producing 2000-4000 watches compared to 50-300 and that almost anyone who had the money yesterday, was able to get one, does nothing to rectify the price on the secondary market is clearly flawed
Respectfully, I strongly disagree. Could they sell for double, maybe. Triple though, absolutely not. In my opinion, there is simply no way anyone pays 5-6k USD for this watch.

I can agree with the other poster that they are unlikely to stay at MSRP, but when the hype dies down, I think the Toki will sell for a price closer to MSRP, than double price. 5 years from now, it's anyones guess, but I don't see it being collectable. Only time will tell.

As a sidenote, there's obviously a difference between the watch being listed for double or tripple price, and the watch actually selling for that price.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Tronborg said:


> In my opinion, there is simply no way anyone pays 5-6k USD for this watch.


You are so wrong it's unbelievable!


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Tronborg said:


> Your proposition that producing 2000-4000 watches compared to 50-300 and that almost anyone who had the money yesterday, was able to get one, does nothing to rectify the price on the secondary market is clearly flawed
> Respectfully, I strongly disagree. Could they sell for double, maybe. Triple though, absolutely not. In my opinion, there is simply no way anyone pays 5-6k USD for this watch.
> 
> I can agree with the other poster that they are unlikely to stay at MSRP, but when the hype dies down, I think the Toki will sell for a price closer to MSRP, than double price. 5 years from now, it's anyones guess, but I don't see it being collectable. Only time will tell.
> ...


Agree with the logic, but then, we live in a world where a Sub goes well above MSRP. And there are like what, millions of those?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Histrionics (Feb 5, 2021)

Tronborg said:


> Respectfully, I strongly disagree. Could they sell for double, maybe. Triple though, absolutely not. In my opinion, there is simply no way anyone pays 5-6k USD for this watch.


We'll likely see a lot of these _posted_ for 3-4x the MSRP, because a ton of people would have bought these just to flip and they'll be expecting that price point.

But as a result there's going to be an abundance of these available on the secondary market, so in the long run I doubt they get much higher than 2x, if even that.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Currently 366 offers for Rolex Hulk at chrono24 and all of them are 3 times MSRP


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

Tronborg said:


> Your proposition that producing 2000-4000 watches compared to 50-300 and that almost anyone who had the money yesterday, was able to get one, does nothing to rectify the price on the secondary market is clearly flawed
> Respectfully, I strongly disagree. Could they sell for double, maybe. Triple though, absolutely not. In my opinion, there is simply no way anyone pays 5-6k USD for this watch.
> 
> I can agree with the other poster that they are unlikely to stay at MSRP, but when the hype dies down, I think the Toki will sell for a price closer to MSRP, than double price. 5 years from now, it's anyones guess, but I don't see it being collectable. Only time will tell.
> ...


i think that will be the case. out of the several thousand watches purchased many were done just to resell make a quick buck. in having that many in the market at the same time each seller will be under cutting one another to unload.

i seriously doubt people will be forking much if any over msrp for one. there simply will be too many available


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> wow 7088? Makes me wonder how many they sold. My order number was in the mid 4000s... so at least anywhere between 2500-3000 at the very least. Based off my quick math they made >4m usd gross profit in 10 minutes.


More precisely, they "guaranteed" 4MM gross profit in 10 mins


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

todoroki said:


> Definitely plenty of other brands to explore. I hear you.
> With Asaoka san, he has always replied promptly and politely to any of my inquiries albeit they were in Japanese.


maybe i should try that and use my minor in Japanese studies to use.  not sure if i wrote him in Nihonggo or English or both. i wrote Masahiro san in English and he replied promptly.


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## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

He may have received many enquires after the sales event. Also, it's a Saturday so maybe the team will get back to you after a while...

Regarding the price fluctuation, it should not matter so much if you are a true watch lover/collector.

It is interesting to see WUS fellow to cite Rolex in this thread. I personally strongly feel Rolex is a brand specially for flippers and traders. It does not do anything to solve with the problems in its distribution channels unlike Kurono. What Kurono does to curb the price speculation is one of the key factors for my purchase. Even a small company can do it if it has the right mind and ethics.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

I'm only interested if... 


Histrionics said:


> We'll likely see a lot of these _posted_ for 3-4x the MSRP, because a ton of people would have bought these just to flip and they'll be expecting that price point.
> 
> But as a result there's going to be an abundance of these available on the secondary market, so in the long run I doubt they get much higher than 2x, if even that.


I'll probably low-ball a handful of scalpers for 1x when they finally start appearing at 3x.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

One-Seventy said:


> I'm only interested
> 
> I'll probably low-ball a handful of scalpers for 1x when they finally start appearing at 3x.


You'll scare them to MSRP ) I see 3 Mori-s at chrono24 now and all of them around $9000 mark. 3 is about 1% of the whole edition, why do they not fall, I'd gladly buy one around $2000 haha.


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## watchesinnature (Jan 1, 2020)

It's very interesting to speculate but everyone here almost agrees that it will not fall below MSRP which in itself makes it an amazing value proposition. I ordered one myself to literally see what the fuss is about (and the design really speaks to me, though the Mori much more to be honest though I was too late for that batch). Worse case scenario is that I don't like it and get back my money. Though I think it's highly unlikely that I don't like it.


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

watchesinnature said:


> It's very interesting to speculate but everyone here almost agrees that it will not fall below MSRP which in itself makes it an amazing value proposition. I ordered one myself to literally see what the fuss is about (and the design really speaks to me, though the Mori much more to be honest though I was too late for that batch). Worse case scenario is that I don't like it and get back my money. Though I think it's highly unlikely that I don't like it.


Only thing that has me worried is the size, wish they were closer to 40mm but should be fine. I just got a bit fatter so we will see lol


----------



## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

BRAUN XXIII said:


> He may have received many enquires after the sales event. Also, it's a Saturday so maybe the team will get back to you after a while...
> 
> Regarding the price fluctuation, it should not matter so much if you are a true watch lover/collector.
> 
> It is interesting to see WUS fellow to cite Rolex in this thread. I personally strongly feel Rolex is a brand specially for flippers and traders. It does not do anything to solve with the problems in its distribution channels unlike Kurono. What Kurono does to curb the price speculation is one of the key factors for my purchase. Even a small company can do it if it has the right mind and ethics.


i emailed last year. Before I even decided to get a kurono. As a placeholder. I wanted a tsunami.


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## watchesinnature (Jan 1, 2020)

WatchEater666 said:


> Only thing that has me worried is the size, wish they were closer to 40mm but should be fine. I just got a bit fatter so we will see lol


That's the beauty of this again, if it doesn't fit, you'd easily get back your money (at least that's what we all speculate and even probably with interest).


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## l66666 (Feb 5, 2017)

WatchEater666 said:


> Only thing that has me worried is the size, wish they were closer to 40mm but should be fine. I just got a bit fatter so we will see lol


I wouldn't mind about that.

On an elegant or dress watch 37mm is just the perfect size on the wrist, I believe.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I also wear bigger watches more ofter, but my Stowa Partitio is exactly 37mm too, Oris John Coltrane is 38, also have many vintage watches around 37 and below and I love them all. It is true 37 is the ideal size for this style of watch. It depends though on the wrist size. If you have 8" it would be too small I think, mine is 7.25 and I think we'll get together well


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## soufiane (Jul 23, 2012)

Never thought about pink but this was beautiful 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Tronborg said:


> Your proposition that producing 2000-4000 watches compared to 50-300 and that almost anyone who had the money yesterday, was able to get one, does nothing to rectify the price on the secondary market is clearly flawed
> Respectfully, I strongly disagree. Could they sell for double, maybe. Triple though, absolutely not. In my opinion, there is simply no way anyone pays 5-6k USD for this watch.
> 
> I can agree with the other poster that they are unlikely to stay at MSRP, but when the hype dies down, I think the Toki will sell for a price closer to MSRP, than double price. 5 years from now, it's anyones guess, but I don't see it being collectable. Only time will tell.
> ...


yeah agree they won't go as high as the Green one, in a way, actually they volume of the pink makes the green one rarer overall, which with supply/demand could push that one up even more...

Also for 5 years value, if they consistently keep doing timed released every year, another 3K added to supply every year, which doesn't bode well for long term collectability for most of the colors. Perhaps Green will indeed be the long term collectable


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

watchesinnature said:


> It's very interesting to speculate but everyone here almost agrees that it will not fall below MSRP which in itself makes it an amazing value proposition. I ordered one myself to literally see what the fuss is about (and the design really speaks to me, though the Mori much more to be honest though I was too late for that batch). Worse case scenario is that I don't like it and get back my money. Though I think it's highly unlikely that I don't like it.


Exactly my thoughts with the Toki. Was too late for Mori, really wanted it. Was disappointed at first at the Toki's color (because of existing salmon/red watches in my collection). Figured best case scenario this reaches Mori's price level - then I can trade (this is not happening). Worst case scenario I get money back.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Exactly my thoughts with the Toki. Was too late for Mori, really wanted it. Was disappointed at first at the Toki's color (because of existing salmon/red watches in my collection). Figured best case scenario this reaches Mori's price level - then I can trade (this is not happening). Worst case scenario I get money back.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please don't trade until you do a Ming 17.09 Burgundy - SUF Frosted Salmon - Kurono Toki triplet shot ? I'm looking forward to that photograph.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Please don't trade until you do a Ming 17.09 Burgundy - SUF Frosted Salmon - Kurono Toki triplet shot  I'm looking forward to that photograph.


Oh yes, the three shades of dawn shot! Waiting to do that one myself. Will be some time until I receive the Ming though. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

golffoxtrot said:


> yeah agree they won't go as high as the Green one, in a way, actually they volume of the pink makes the green one rarer overall, which with supply/demand could push that one up even more...
> 
> Also for 5 years value, if they consistently keep doing timed released every year, another 3K added to supply every year, which doesn't bode well for long term collectability for most of the colors. Perhaps Green will indeed be the long term collectable


Production quantity is not the sole determining factor on resale price. The Mori had the highest production numbers of all the kurono releases by some margin but it is often listed for double the price of more limited models. Thus, the higher production led to more owners of the watch posting it on social media creating a surge in demand for "the green one".

Although I've yet to see it in person, I think the Toki looks like it could be one of the best colours released. It really matches the design of the watch perfectly and I think its a guaranteed future classic regardless.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

todoroki said:


> Production quantity is not the sole determining factor on resale price. The Mori had the highest production numbers of all the kurono releases by some margin but it is often listed for double the price of more limited models. Thus, the higher production led to more owners of the watch posting it on social media creating a surge in demand for "the green one".
> 
> Although I've yet to see it in person, I think the Toki looks like it could be one of the best colours released. It really matches the design of the watch perfectly and I think its a guaranteed future classic regardless.


Completely agree with you. Very limited (below 50 pieces) releases may stifle demand due to to limited exposure. But there will be so many Tokis, I don't see how it could match the current multiple of the Mori. But still, I hope to trade it for a Mori or eggshell down the line if prices do converge.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> Please don't trade until you do a Ming 17.09 Burgundy - SUF Frosted Salmon - Kurono Toki triplet shot 😅 I'm looking forward to that photograph.


if Kurono:Asaoka and SUF:Sarpaneva, who is equivalent for Ming?


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Pongster said:


> if Kurono:Asaoka and SUF:Sarapneva, who is equivalent for Ming?


Ming thein?

Sent using Tapatalk


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Pongster said:


> if Kurono:Asaoka and SUF:Sarapneva, who is equivalent for Ming?


Ming:Ming


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

watchesinnature said:


> It's very interesting to speculate but everyone here almost agrees that it will not fall below MSRP which in itself makes it an amazing value proposition.


Well, that is the most important thing these days. Buying it because you like the look of it... secondary importance to the un-leveraging of capital risk.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

One-Seventy said:


> Well, that is the most important thing these days. Buying it because you like the look of it... secondary importance to the un-leveraging of capital risk.


Ha ha! Well said! Quite right, enough going on about the potential resale price. What will be will be. I bought it cos I have been meaning to pick up a nice salmon (ish) dial to add to the collection for ages. Wont be selling it.


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

Anyone know if we'll get an email on what batch we are in? I don't want to bother emailing them atm as I'm sure they received a lot of email.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

WatchEater666 said:


> Anyone know if we'll get an email on what batch we are in? I don't want to bother emailing them atm as I'm sure they received a lot of email.


They said emails will go out shortly clarifying which group a persons order is in.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Haven't posted in a while but I also pulled the trigger on the release. I am currently waiting on a Chrono 2 and this will be my second Kurono. Like others, I am a little concerned about the size but I think it will work for a dress watch. Really appreciate how this release was handled but I almost lost my mind when I saw that Hodinkee ran an article on it the night before the release. I hate when that happens and drives the numbers up. In the end I think I will be in the second batch of shipments. I have read somewhere else that evidently there are rumors that a ton of orders from speculative buyers/bots/flippers are being cancelled by Kurono. The person posting had no proof but only time will tell how many people jumped on the release due to the press and with the hope of making a profit. 

I had some AMEX issues since the verification popup on the Kurono site said the code would be in my Amex App. Logged into the app and of course couldn't find anything there till I saw a very small tab to have the code sent via text. All in all done in 3 minutes but could have been done much sooner had it not been for the verification issue. Happy to add this to my collection....now if I would just get my Chrono 2 already!


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

It is very easy, treat all account registrations after the Hodinkee article fraudulent


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

svetoslav said:


> It is very easy, treat all account registrations after the Hodinkee article fraudulent


I have to wonder if that has crossed their minds but reality is there were other watch sites and bloggers as well as a ton of IG posts about the release.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

todoroki said:


> Production quantity is not the sole determining factor on resale price. The Mori had the highest production numbers of all the kurono releases by some margin but it is often listed for double the price of more limited models. Thus, the higher production led to more owners of the watch posting it on social media creating a surge in demand for "the green one".
> 
> Although I've yet to see it in person, I think the Toki looks like it could be one of the best colours released. It really matches the design of the watch perfectly and I think its a guaranteed future classic regardless.


while this is true, when we look at Toki vs Mori we're basically looking at two models that now have alot of hype on social and the people willing to pay multiples are not your average casual watch owners either. So given the enthusiast community knows both well (and both colors are nice, can't really say objectively which is nicer) I think supply will end up being the biggest factor in the end.

You can see this reflected in vintage watches also where collectors pay more for the <insert whatever color> dial because its rarer, especially in the context of several releases of different colors (say 3K each release). Just take your own real world example from 30-40 years ago where a watch whose design has caught the fancy of the collectors, usually its the rarer color that has the higher price.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

todoroki said:


> Ha ha! Well said! Quite right, enough going on about the potential resale price. What will be will be. I bought it cos I have been meaning to pick up a nice salmon (ish) dial to add to the collection for ages. Wont be selling it.


Yeah I also bought for this reason, wanted to add salmon dress watch for a long time, was looking at the Montblanc Heritage GMT, but couldn't pull the trigger. And this is reassuring because if I turn out to hate it in real life, I probably won't be out any money.


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## watchesinnature (Jan 1, 2020)

WatchEater666 said:


> Anyone know if we'll get an email on what batch we are in? I don't want to bother emailing them atm as I'm sure they received a lot of email.


I actually emailed and received a reply. They mentioned that they are unable to let me know at this point and asked me to refer to the time in which I received my receipt (with the caveat that it is not very precise). Interestingly my order number was 60XX and received 3 minutes after the opening time. Really high number for just 3 minutes in compared to the rest here...


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

golffoxtrot said:


> while this is true, when we look at Toki vs Mori we're basically looking at two models that now have alot of hype on social and the people willing to pay multiples are not your average casual watch owners either. So given the enthusiast community knows both well (and both colors are nice, can't really say objectively which is nicer) I think supply will end up being the biggest factor in the end.
> 
> You can see this reflected in vintage watches also where collectors pay more for the <insert whatever color> dial because its rarer, especially in the context of several releases of different colors (say 3K each release). Just take your own real world example from 30-40 years ago where a watch whose design has caught the fancy of the collectors, usually its the rarer color that has the higher price.


The people willing to pay multiples are people with money to burn who spend $5K + on watches without a care. They certainly won't know the kurono back catalogue in detail, don't care about the movement, and most likely won't even know who the designer is.

The supply quantity has not correlated to a higher resale price with kurono because 99% of the people are entirely unaware of the production numbers for each model. And here I'm talking about the erstwhile collectors who ought to know better. The majority were completely oblivious that their "50 piece limited models" were also being released in Japan in higher numbers.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

todoroki said:


> The people willing to pay multiples are people with money to burn who spend $5K + on watches without a care. They certainly won't know the kurono back catalogue in detail, don't care about the movement, and most likely won't even know who the designer is.
> 
> The supply quantity has not correlated to a higher resale price with kurono because 99% of the people are entirely unaware of the production numbers for each model. And here I'm talking about the erstwhile collectors who ought to know better. The majority were completely oblivious that their "50 piece limited models" were also being released in Japan in higher numbers.


perhaps not yet, but don't confuse short term blip with long run which is what I was referring to. the sheer hype has generate so much information out there now, including a very detailed list of releases and volumes (as per link below on grail watch etc.) Hajime Asaoka: Chrono and Kurono, Bunkyō Tokyo - Grail Watch

When ppl look back in 20, 30 years, if this is a collectible watch, given roughly equal desirabilities of each color and releases every year (like not if next year they decide to stop etc.) the supply will definitely be a defining factor in the cost, as it is today for many many vintage pieces


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I have so many watches I've bought for money I could never get back. So do I really care?  I just love this Kurono design and especially the Toki color. Love is not an investment.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

I was actually looking for the article with the editions sizes that @golffoxtrot referenced above to post here. The edition sizes even with the JDM releases have not been huge previous to the Toki release but considering the aspect of how much more well known the brand has become I think they are still extremely low. I for one am glad I got a Toki but I do think that if they keep up the anniversary releases that they will need to do something new and a bit more exciting for the next release. This go around there was already criticism that all they did was offer a new color variation. This makes sense when you think about the fact that they were opening it up for 10 minutes so don't mess with something you have already made and know how long it will take to manufacture too much.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

@golffoxtrot. Thanks for that article!
I was unaware that the first ever models released were 25 of each colour. I thought they were 50 of each. That makes the champagne dial easily the rarest at only 25 pieces worldwide ( besides the rebranded ones he made for that tv drama). I Actually had two of these in hand at one stage. Sold one to a forum member and kept the other one myself. Glad I did, it will make an awesome pairing with the toki.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Re-reading that article again, the writer is mistaken about the production quality for the JDM "chrono" models. The writer says 50 each of the blue and eggshell and it was 100 of each. He also says 50 of each for the Reiwa copper and silver and those were also 100 for each colour. The bullseye and the chronograph again 50 each when it was 100. 

What happened is that these watches were mostly sold on Tic Tac in two batches of 50. After the first 50 were sold, there was a period where they were listed as out of stock before showing up again.


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

todoroki said:


> @golffoxtrot. Thanks for that article!
> I was unaware that the first ever models released were 25 of each colour. I thought they were 50 of each. That makes the champagne dial easily the rarest at only 25 pieces worldwide ( besides the rebranded ones he made for that tv drama). I Actually had two of these in hand at one stage. Sold one to a forum member and kept the other one myself. Glad I did, it will make an awesome pairing with the toki.
> 
> View attachment 15902271


is the Chrono version desirable outside Japan?


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> I have so many watches I've bought for money I could never get back. So do I really care?  I just love this Kurono design and especially the Toki color. Love is not an investment.


I do care  actually i think this is part of the fun -- many people are A or B, like either you are a flipper, or you buy for the love. But I think its a great way to build a collection, only buy ones you love and think that you will not lose any money on (at a portfolio level, not at a individual watch level). Helps control the flow and if you buy too many, you can downsize without hurting your wallet.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

todoroki said:


> Re-reading that article again, the writer is mistaken about the production quality for the JDM "chrono" models. The writer says 50 each of the blue and eggshell and it was 100 of each. He also says 50 of each for the Reiwa copper and silver and those were also 100 for each colour. The bullseye and the chronograph again 50 each when it was 100.
> 
> What happened is that these watches were mostly sold on Tic Tac in two batches of 50. After the first 50 were sold, there was a period where they were listed as out of stock before showing up again.


you should send him a message maybe he will correct it or give you his side.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

golffoxtrot said:


> you should send him a message maybe he will correct it or give you his side.


Yeah it only proves my previous point that even the erstwhile collectors supposedly "in the know" don't actually know. Maybe its understandable with the JDM releases as a lot of the info was suppressed by Kurono Tokyo and what's left seems to get lost in translation. Here are the correct numbers for al the JDM (Tic Tac) versions in order of release.

Mystic grey 50
Champagne 50

Eggshell 100
Blue 100

Reiwa Silver 100
Reiwa Copper 100

Bullseye Field grey 100
Bullseye Champagne 100

Chronograph 1 black 100
Chronograph 1 white 100


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Anybody got any email yet?


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Anybody got any email yet?


Nope (edit: got an email)


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

Congratulations on securing an allocation of Anniversary 朱鷺:Toki and thank you for celebrating two years with Kurono Tokyo!

We are pleased to inform you that your order for Anniversary 朱鷺:Toki will most likely be shipped out from *Mid-June onwards through August*.


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## BigMoufPosy (Dec 24, 2016)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Anybody got any email yet?


An email just went out a couple of minutes ago - my #43XX order number will be shipping mid-June through August.


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

BigMoufPosy said:


> An email just went out a couple of minutes ago - my #43XX order number will be shipping mid-June through August.


Same here! Mine was #45XX, same estimate.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

guillelle said:


> Same here! Mine was #45XX, same estimate.


42XX and same estimate.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

moheel said:


> 42XX and same estimate.


Pleased to announce that 46XX is in the same club!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I suppose only buyers from the first batch are getting mails?


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## Gavstar (May 28, 2021)

This seems quite likely given all the order number quoted so far. I also got a confirmation email for June to august delivery and my order number is 46xx. It would be interesting to see whether any confirmations were given to people with higher order numbers...


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

Same. Low- to mid-4000s order number. mid-June through August shipping date.

I guess they've only sent the e-mails to those in the first delivery group. Judging by the order #s so far, it looks like they had about 500 units ready to go.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

WatchEater666 said:


> We are pleased to inform you that your order for Anniversary 朱鷺:Toki will most likely be shipped out from *Mid-June onwards through August*.


The thing that jumps out at me is that the time frame for Group 1 is already adding "onwards through August" in the terminology when all the other previous references were "*Mid-Jun thru Jul: 35% of orders." *So they are padding time frames already. 



Nordlys said:


> Judging by the order #s so far, it looks like they had about 500 units ready to go.


That would seem like a really low number to me if true. I would have thought they had 1,000 units ready to go but I guess not.

Looks like I will be in a later group since no email as of yet and I wasn't expecting to be in Group 1 anyway based on my order number. Stupid credit card verification process delayed my purchase but I got confirmation 3 minutes in so not too slow.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

christianj said:


> The thing that jumps out at me is that the time frame for Group 1 is already adding "onwards through August" in the terminology when all the other previous references were "*Mid-Jun thru Jul: 35% of orders." *So they are padding time frames already.


I noticed that too. Probably better to underpromise and have customers be pleasantly surprised if it arrives sooner, than to overpromise and have a few individuals in Group 1 pissed if their watch arrives on August 3rd. Unfortunately, there are a plethora of neck-beards in the watch community who would be foaming at the mouth and posting scathing reviews on every forum if their watch arrived 2 days out of the initially-stated window, so brands always need to consider such individuals.



christianj said:


> That would seem like a really low number to me if true. *I would have thought they had 1,000 units ready to go but I guess not.*
> 
> Looks like I will be in a later group since no email as of yet and I wasn't expecting to be in Group 1 anyway based on my order number. Stupid credit card verification process delayed my purchase but I got confirmation 3 minutes in so not too slow.


Why would you assume that? The most they've ever made in the past for a single edition was 500 units (The Chronograph 2).

From the order numbers posted online, it appears that about 2500-3000 orders numbers were _initially generated*. *_But we have no clue how many of those generated order numbers were later canceled due to credit card issues or detected fraudulent orders. Remember, Kurono stated that they would review and cancel any orders placed by known scalpers and/or if they suspected that more than one order was placed by the same customer (i.e., people using bots or VPNs to side-step the 1-unit per customer limit).


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Nordlys said:


> Why would you assume that? The most they've ever made in the past for a single edition was 500 units (The Chronograph 2).


I guess based on the fact that Ming sold around 2-3k units during their 10 minute sales period a month or so earlier and based on the fact that they said they wanted to get them out in 2 months (before all the hype on Hondikee). If they pre-made 1k then they would have around 2 months to make the other 1k or so. I always assumed they would sell around 2-3k units and I mentioned that in a couple of posts on other forums.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

I don't know about the production numbers, but I will say that conceptually the Toki is the best release so far.
Taking inspiration from the Toki bird 「朱鷺」when the word "Toki"also means time 「時」 Is a stroke of genius.
The colour also reflects the source of its inspiration completely naturally and doesn't feel forced (compare with the "mori" whose neon green is nothing really like a forest).


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

One-Seventy said:


> I'm only interested if...
> 
> I'll probably low-ball a handful of scalpers for 1x when they finally start appearing at 3x.


That honestly sounds like a good way to spend my off time. While on the porcelain throne, for example.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I don't care when precisely I'll receive my watch, so happy I managed to pre-order one. I just hope the quality would not suffer through the next batches.


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## ispeshaled (Sep 10, 2016)

Got the same time frame/email for my #47xx order.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> That honestly sounds like a good way to spend my off time. While on the porcelain throne, for example.


It's something to do between grunts!


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## bpanders (Nov 5, 2020)

Nordlys said:


> From the order numbers posted online, it appears that about 2500-3000 orders numbers were _initially generated*. *_But we have no clue how many of those generated order numbers were later canceled due to credit card issues or detected fraudulent orders.


This is a good point, most e-com platforms will assign an invoice/order number per attempt, I'll see customers try an expired card three, four times on my website and each one generates a unique order number. There could be and likely are hundreds and hundreds of these transactions.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Based on the information so far, I will probably be in the 3rd group. So that makes delivery in what, somewhere in Dec?!
What should one do if they are moving houses? I wonder if they will update the delivery address?


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## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

As much as its exciting to me to wonder when I will get my watch, based on prior experiences with such ordering, I know Ill get it when Ill get it. I am just gonna chill till then.

And hope it comes soon... And in June.. 

Forget it, I cannot chill.. am gonna read every post here... My order no is 48**.. When do you folks think I will get it?


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## ispeshaled (Sep 10, 2016)

WizardofWatch said:


> Based on the information so far, I will probably be in the 3rd group. So that makes delivery in what, somewhere in Dec?!
> What should one do if they are moving houses? I wonder if they will update the delivery address?


The Kurono team will be happy to help you arrange for a change of shipping address if the need arises. Send us an email at [email protected] with your order number and updated shipping address, and we will make the necessary changes for you.

This was in the email as well.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

ispeshaled said:


> The Kurono team will be happy to help you arrange for a change of shipping address if the need arises. Send us an email at [email protected] with your order number and updated shipping address, and we will make the necessary changes for you.
> 
> This was in the email as well.


Thank you! This is super helpful.


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## Anizer (Feb 20, 2021)

christianj said:


> The thing that jumps out at me is that the time frame for Group 1 is already adding "onwards through August" in the terminology when all the other previous references were "*Mid-Jun thru Jul: 35% of orders." *So they are padding time frames already.
> 
> That would seem like a really low number to me if true. I would have thought they had 1,000 units ready to go but I guess not.
> 
> Looks like I will be in a later group since no email as of yet and I wasn't expecting to be in Group 1 anyway based on my order number. Stupid credit card verification process delayed my purchase but I got confirmation 3 minutes in so not too slow.


If we're assuming 500 ready to go for first 35% batch, thats ~1400 total ordered


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

WizardofWatch said:


> What should one do if they are moving houses? I wonder if they will update the delivery address?


if you have a Kurono account I would think you can also change the address in your profile.


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## Piter De Vries (Apr 18, 2019)

So glad this Kurono wasn't to my tastes.
Even with the 10 minute window it seems some people were sorely disappointed with horrid technical issues.
Hopefully the next watch will have a smoother checkout system.
The stress and anxiety levels in purchasing a Kurono are quite something to behold.
Glad I'm doing it from the sidelines.
I thought the Mori was nice, but the champagne is next level.
Cheers to everyone who got their Toki's, and my sincerest sympathy to those who didn't.


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## Silvek (Nov 22, 2018)

I noticed that Hodinkee has a new line of colorful leather straps, and it made me go hmmmm.... 🤔


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## Anizer (Feb 20, 2021)

Piter De Vries said:


> So glad this Kurono wasn't to my tastes.
> Even with the 10 minute window it seems some people were sorely disappointed with horrid technical issues.
> Hopefully the next watch will have a smoother checkout system.
> The stress and anxiety levels in purchasing a Kurono are quite something to behold.
> ...


What technical issues? Some people had payment issues but for the vast majority of us that gone one the process was super smooth.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

christianj said:


> if you have a Kurono account I would think you can also change the address in your profile.


Yeah. I can change the address. But wasn't sure if they will go by the address at time of reservation or at time of dispatch.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Anizer said:


> If we're assuming 500 ready to go for first 35% batch, thats ~1400 total ordered


That would be so cool. If the collection size turns out to be 1400 instead of ~3000.


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## Piter De Vries (Apr 18, 2019)

Anizer said:


> What technical issues? Some people had payment issues but for the vast majority of us that gone one the process was super smooth.


Same thing to me. Or those that missed out if you prefer.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Anizer said:


> What technical issues? Some people had payment issues but for the vast majority of us that gone one the process was super smooth.


Yeah. I didn't hear a lot about technical issues. Except the fact that it took almost a minute before I was able to access the preorder page. Kept getting an error initially.
On the other hand, a lot of folks faced authentication issues with their credit card, especially amex I think (myself included). Stupid fraud alert took away precious seconds! ??


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Anizer said:


> If we're assuming 500 ready to go for first 35% batch, thats ~1400 total ordered


I'm going to say that's some wishful thinking since the 500 was a speculation from another member.

Based on reports so far the highest # I've seen in this Group 1 was 49xx. Someone with 51xx reported not getting an email yet so if we want to defer based on order numbers mentioned it appears 42xx to 49xx are in Group 1. (Since I don't remember anyone under 42xx commenting on any forum)


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

christianj said:


> I'm going to say that's some wishful thinking since the *500 was a speculation from another member.*
> 
> Based on reports so far the highest # I've seen in this Group 1 was 49xx. Someone with 51xx reported not getting an email yet so if we want to defer based on order numbers mentioned it appears 42xx to 49xx are in Group 1. (Since I don't remember anyone under 42xx commenting on any forum)


Every number thrown out so far is speculation at this point. We have no clue how many successful orders were actually placed (many of those generated order numbers may have been canceled/declined during the CC verification process), nor do we have any idea how many of the successful orders were canceled by Korono due to suspected fraud/double ordering. We don't even know whether the percentages provided by Kurono (35% for first group, 25% for second group, etc.) are accurate. For all we know, they're just throwing numbers out there to throw off those who are trying to pin down the total # of units produced, and they might only have 20% of units ready to go rather than the stated 35%.

So basically: 1500 is speculation. 3000 is speculation. It's all speculation, and it's probably a moot point trying to pin down exactly how many will be made. I would say the total units produced will probably be somewhere between 1500 and 3000, but whether it's on the low or high end of that estimate is anyone's guess.

Regarding the first batch though, a batch of 500 makes the most sense from a business perspective. As a small business, you never want to have too much capital tied up in unsold stock. Given that their largest previous batch size was 500 units, it would be rather perplexing if they decided to suddenly double the total number for this initial batch. That's a lot of up-front capital expenditure. It's much better to let the buyers fund the production of their units (they pay, then you produce) than the other way around.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

Anizer said:


> What technical issues? Some people had payment issues but for the vast majority of us that gone one the process was super smooth.


That's what I thought as well when I read his post. As far as time-limited sales are concerned, this Kurono sale went about as smoothly as one could ever wish for. The website didn't crash. There wasn't any malicious bot attacks that blocked the check-out process. There really wasn't even much, if any, lag. No technical issues whatsoever.

I wouldn't call user CC verification issues "technical issues." Those are either the fault of the user (i.e. trying to use an address not associated with the account or not notifying their bank in advance of the overseas transaction) or the fault of their cc company (i.e. automatically flagging the purchase as malicious even if the user notified the bank of the upcoming overseas transaction). Having your CC declined is not Kurono's fault, so I'm not sure why some people are blaming their own problems on the sale itself.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Can someone explain to me the logic of their decision to withhold the info on total production numbers? 
It has been touted by KT as a kind of tactic to stop the watches being traded for profit by scalpers. I don' really care either way as I won't be selling mine, but Im pretty sure that the obfuscation will likely have the adverse affect.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Nordlys said:


> Regarding the first batch though, a batch of 500 makes the most sense from a business perspective. As a small business, you never want to have too much capital tied up in unsold stock. Given that their largest previous batch size was 500 units, it would be rather perplexing if they decided to suddenly double the total number for this initial batch. That's a lot of up-front capital expenditure. It's much better to let the buyers fund the production of their units (they pay, then you produce) than the other way around.


I agree on it all being speculation as as I said we will never know.

As for the 500 units, considering that the Chrono 2 release of 500 units sold out in around 3 minutes, I personally think that there is a logic from a business perspective for them having made more than 500 units of the Toki. They likely knew how many people tried to get a Chrono 2 and missed out and I think they could estimate how many they could have sold if they had a 10 minute timeframe.....hence how many Toki's they could likely sell in a 10 minute timeframe.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@todoroki .....likely just so a reseller can't say...1 of xyz units or edition of xyz number of units.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

christianj said:


> I agree on it all being speculation as as I said we will never know.
> 
> As for the 500 units, considering that the Chrono 2 release of 500 units sold out in around 3 minutes, I personally think that there is a logic from a business perspective for them having made more than 500 units of the Toki. They likely knew how many people tried to get a Chrono 2 and missed out and* I think they could estimate how many they could have sold if they had a 10 minute timeframe.*....hence how many Toki's they could likely sell in a 10 minute timeframe.


But... what if it flops? I'm not saying it would (The Toki is a beautiful watch) but this is always what needs to be in the back of one's mind as a business owner. If they make 1000 units and, for some untold reason, the release is a flop and they only sell 500ish units during the initial 10-minute window, then they're left with two choices. Either:

1.) Destroy the excess stock OR

2.) Re-open the sale at a later date for another period of time.

Neither of those options is really desirable, as the first is a gross waste of capital, and the second hurts your brand's prestige/desirability, as you're essentially admitting "Well, the people didn't want our product enough for it to sell out in the initial window." By eliminating the essence of scarcity, you're severely diminishing your brand's desirability.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

It’s a matter of estimates and willingness to take risks which business owners do every day. Based on past experience the likelihood of a flop was pretty low. Maybe they make 500 watches and 500 dials in addition to that. We can debate this till the cows come home but I think their estimates went out the window when Hodinkee published their article and brought even more attention to the release. (and sadly likely brought more flippers in on the release) I have no intention to sell and am also waiting on a Chrono 2 but It appears that the timeline has been extended due to the demand so I’m not necessarily thinking they only sold 1500 units.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

christianj said:


> but I think their estimates went out the window when Hodinkee published their article and brought even more attention to the release.


You honestly believe that Kurono had absolutely nothing to do with the (very convenient for them) timing of those articles released on Hodinkee, W&W, etc.?

...I find that highly implausible. As a brand, your goal is to sell the most product possible. So why would they _not _want that press coverage right before their release?

People in the comments sections of those articles were acting as if Hodinkee, W&W, etc. were to blame for the articles... when Kurono probably paid them to release the articles in the first place.

I guess sheep will be sheep.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Why was the “sheep will be sheep“ comment necessary? People can agree to disagree without crap like that.

If Kurono paid Hodinkee for the coverage then it makes no sense since it’s counterproductive to their campaign to control the sale of their watches and keep them out of flippers hands. Also if they paid, why didn’t they make more units If they wanted to maximize sales or why even limit the sale timeframe to 10 minutes? Of course anything is possible and I realize that.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

With regards to the Hodinkee article, I'm sure that Kurono did not pay them. The author Cole Pennington said himself in the comments section that he reached out to Kurono for a comment and they did not respond. This itself was in response to a criticism from a reader that his article read like a lazy advert and merely copied and pasted information about the watch without adding any journalistic insight.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

todoroki said:


> This itself was in response to a criticism from a reader that his article read like a lazy advert and merely copied and pasted information about the watch without adding any journalistic insight.


Isnt that essentially what Hodinkee does most of the time?......repost stuff that has been reported elsewhere. Why would they need to defend that style of reporting?


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

christianj said:


> Isnt that essentially what Hodinkee does most of the time?......repost stuff that has been reported elsewhere. Why would they need to defend that style of reporting?


I rarely read Hodinkee to be honest, I just learned about the Kurono article the day after the release date. Clearly Cole Pennington felt the need to defend his journalistic integrity for some reason... he does have some expertise with the Japanese watch scene I believe.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

Cole Pennington can say whatever Cole Pennington wants to say about "reaching out" to a brand. That doesn't mean he's being fully transparent about any money that changed hands for the coverage. He never explicitly denied sponsorship of the article, and he doesn't have to. Hodinkee has no obligation to disclose whether their articles are paid-for.

Hodinkee doesn't cover new releases anymore unless they're paid to do so. I'd find it extremely odd for them to break with this model just to cover the release of some obscure independent _right before _the launch.

Hodinkee still has quite a few interesting editorials on esoteric topics. Case in point: The recent article about cicada timing by Jack Forster. But all of their articles covering new releases are just thinly-veiled advertisements (I believe they're called "advertorials" by those in the industry). Honestly, I don't care if they sell their new release coverage to the highest bidder. More power to them. If it helps pay for the excellent long-form articles by Jack Forster, then I'm for it.

But acting like Hodinkee covers new releases just for the heck of it is akin to sticking your head in the proverbial sand.


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## Rogco (Jan 12, 2017)

Order number 56xx figure it'll be awhile!


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Nordlys said:


> But... what if it flops? I'm not saying it would (The Toki is a beautiful watch)


Destroy / recycle the dial and keep the case and movements for next year.


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## lookitzduncs (Jul 10, 2019)

christianj said:


> I'm going to say that's some wishful thinking since the 500 was a speculation from another member.
> 
> Based on reports so far the highest # I've seen in this Group 1 was 49xx. Someone with 51xx reported not getting an email yet so if we want to defer based on order numbers mentioned it appears 42xx to 49xx are in Group 1. (Since I don't remember anyone under 42xx commenting on any forum)


It does seem like it was closer to about 700 in batch one. Would make sense if we presume they originally planned 500 as batch one and then their "backups" could be around 200-250 more. I think a closer estimate of the number of Tokis sold is around 2000-2500. Would bring the numbers close to Ming's 17.09 10-min release where they reported around that number split between their 2 modelsw

We gotta remember that we don't know how many orders were cancelled by Kurono either!


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

Rogco said:


> Order number 56xx figure it'll be awhile!


Same here #55xx...
This is not a summer watch anyway I keep telling my impatient self....


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## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

franksf said:


> Same here #55xx...
> This is not a summer watch anyway I keep telling my impatient self....


LOL. Yes, you keep telling yourself that!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Nordlys said:


> Cole Pennington can say whatever Cole Pennington wants to say about "reaching out" to a brand. That doesn't mean he's being fully transparent about any money that changed hands for the coverage. He never explicitly denied sponsorship of the article, and he doesn't have to. Hodinkee has no obligation to disclose whether their articles are paid-for.
> 
> Hodinkee doesn't cover new releases anymore unless they're paid to do so. I'd find it extremely odd for them to break with this model just to cover the release of some obscure independent _right before _the launch.
> 
> ...


All your comments assume Kurono is trying to maximize short-term value vs building brand equity. If their goal was to maximize cash flow from the Toki release, why even produce 500 pieces? They could have produced zero beforehand (like Ming likely did). It is important to recognize that Kurono and Ming built their reputation on the long-term game, by releasing extremely limited (excluding the Toki and Ming 17.09 releases) editions with incremental improvements. That approach allows them to build brand momentum (and hence why people are ok with waiting half a year for delivery - allowing them to minimize upfront CapEx). If they started acting like you suggested, they would be no better than other volume brands out there.

While trying to guess how many Toki's out there by order numbers won't give a precise figure, it is at least scientific. Still better than "only 500 were made because that's what I would have done".


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## Cheddar (May 2, 2018)

Order ~5050, just got the email:

“We are pleased to inform you that your order for Anniversary 朱鷺:Toki will most likely be shipped out from September onwards through October.”


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

Cheddar said:


> Order ~5050, just got the email:
> 
> "We are pleased to inform you that your order for Anniversary 朱鷺:Toki will most likely be shipped out from September onwards through October."


Same email here with 55xx ...It is going to be a long summer and a great fall..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Kurono's post in Facebook.



> Over the week, we have received multiple enquiries regarding the Kurono Anniversary 朱鷺:Toki. We would like to give guidance to address these concerns -
> *Delivery Guidelines:*
> Last week, we provided guidance to a first batch of customers, and we will continue to do so throughout this week for the other batches. Please be assured that we are working hard with the manufacture and dial maker to ensure that your order will reach you sooner, but we shall not compromise on quality for speed. Rest assured, all customers will receive an email with their delivery time slot by the end of this week.
> All orders will be shipped out according to invoice queue number and we will not be accommodating early shipment requests to ensure fairness to all customers. Please note that over demand will be fulfilled in latter batches as there are real physical limitations to the manufacture's capacity.
> ...


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cheddar said:


> Order ~5050, just got the email:
> 
> "We are pleased to inform you that your order for Anniversary 朱鷺:Toki will most likely be shipped out from September onwards through October."


So definitely pushed out at least a month for ALL groups so far if this trend continues based on this. First group was extended into August and second one pushed into October. A little frustrating since I got my order confirmation 3 minutes after the start of the sale (59xx) and haven't gotten an email yet and am starting to think I'm going to be stuck in Group 3 at this point. This is not looking good for those with numbers at the top end of the release...72xx.


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## watchesinnature (Jan 1, 2020)

Yep, an acquaintance with order no 55xx also received the confirmation that it'll be Sep/Oct while I have not received any news on mine 60XX. I'm guessing it'll be at least Nov/Dec. Both our order confirmations were 3 minutes after the start but 500 difference. 🤷‍♀️


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Based on all this it’s looking like no one bought the watch after the first 5 minutes of the release. If we are getting ready to go into Group 3 deliveries and we haven’t even covered all the people done with the transaction 3 minutes in.....something seems off here. I remember Kurono posting that best way to guesstimate delivery was to take order confirmation time and make some assumptions based on the 10 minute timeframe.....but that certainly isn’t holding true here at all.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

I keep coming back to this point, but the notion that keeping the official production numbers under wraps is going to somehow foil potential scalpers defies any kind of logic (at least to me). Say Kurono Tokyo announce that 2500 were sold, likely more by all our estimates, but let's put it at that figure for arguments sake. How does that possibly increase the potential resale price? Am I missing something here...?


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I was at the 5 mins and number #65xx, orders are not evenly spread through the 10 minutes. Everybody started filling the pre-order the instant it became available and some managed first minute, others around the 5th at the slowest. So I suppose more than 90% of orders are in the first 5 minutes. That does not sound very optimistic for my Kurono being delivered this year  But whatever.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

todoroki said:


> I keep coming back to this point, but the notion that keeping the official production numbers under wraps is going to somehow foil potential scalpers defies any kind of logic (at least to me). Say Kurono Tokyo announce that 2500 were sold, likely more by all our estimates, but let's put it at that figure for arguments sake. How does that possibly increase the potential resale price? Am I missing something here...?


Seems like an attempt to have the cake and eat it too. Gotta keep that "small batch" identity for as long as possible. Because with no batch figures, nothing is stopping flippers to sell this as "1 out of 200" or whatever.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Because with no batch figures, nothing is stopping flippers to sell this as "1 out of 200" or whatever.


Flippers are going to try to sell the watch at a premium if the market allows it....meaning if buyers are willing to pay. If someone is willing to buy from a flipper and pay a premium for a relatively unknown brand, I would assume (or hope) that they were actually aware of the brand and had some knowledge of the model and potential edition sizes. I'm not saying someone's not going to try and sell it by falsely saying it's a small edition but a buyer should know what they are buying.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

christianj said:


> Flippers are going to try to sell the watch at a premium if the market allows it....meaning if buyers are willing to pay. If someone is willing to buy from a flipper and pay a premium for a relatively unknown brand, I would assume (or hope) that they were actually aware of the brand and had some knowledge of the model and potential edition sizes. I'm not saying someone's not going to try and sell it by falsely saying it's a small edition but a buyer should know what they are buying.


Yeah, but the premium on the Mori makes me think it's not only microbrand aficionados that buy this stuff.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Seems like an attempt to have the cake and eat it too. Gotta keep that "small batch" identity for as long as possible. Because with no batch figures, nothing is stopping flippers to sell this as "1 out of 200" or whatever.


Exactly. It's just another marketing gimmick. When they say "We don't want to reveal the batch size because doing so will encourage flipping" (completely asinine logic) what they really mean is "We don't want to reveal the batch size because we want to preserve an aura of exclusivity while cashing in on much larger batch sizes."

Whether or not they admit it, brands benefit from high secondary market values. If your pieces retain their value on the used market or even increase in value, then It makes owners feel like they are getting "good value for money." The easiest way to ensure high secondary market resale values is to maintain an aura of exclusivity.

What is the easiest way to create an aura of exclusivity? Artificial scarcity.

And what is the quickest way to kill that aura of exclusivity? Increasing production numbers too quickly.

By withholding the batch size, they can maintain an aura of exclusivity amongst potential consumers, as no-one really knows whether 1,000 or 10,000 were produced. Rolex starting doing the same thing when they introduced the "Randomized serial numbers." There's millions of Rolex sold every year, but since they don't reveal how many are sold per year and always limit AD availability just enough to ensure that you cannot just walk into a store and buy one, they retain their secondary market value and are thus valued by consumers as a "sound investment."

Make no mistake: Withholding the batch size of this Toki release was not meant to discourage flipping. Quite the contrary, it was done to ensure a continued sense of artificial scarcity even while dramatically increasing production numbers (and thus net profits).

As @RetiredKarlMarx said, Kurono wants to "Have their cake and eat it too."


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Nordlys said:


> Exactly. It's just another marketing gimmick. When they say "We don't want to reveal the batch size because doing so will encourage flipping" (completely asinine logic) what they really mean is "We don't want to reveal the batch size because we want to preserve an aura of exclusivity while cashing in on much larger batch sizes."
> 
> Whether or not they admit it, brands benefit from high secondary market values. If your pieces retain their value on the used market or even increase in value, then It makes owners feel like they are getting "good value for money." The easiest way to ensure high secondary market resale values is to maintain an aura of exclusivity.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't go as far as equating this to artificial scarcity. Kurono seems to make some attempts at discouraging flippers etc. But they do want to keep the small-batch exclusivity (and yes, high prices on the secondary market). And I am willing to admit that secondary market prices did play a role in my decision to get the Toki (I would not get a watch sight unseen otherwise).

And the tactic works! Even though Rolex is pumping out 1MM+ watches every year, some collectors still believe they have something rare because "99.9% of Rolex production is ladies and gold models, so that leaves 100-200 Daytonas a year". A lot of people (myself included) like Microbrands for the perceived transparency - the recent moves by Ming and Kurono look like deviations from that ideal. I don't want to be too negative, but how long until Kurono starts calling the movement "Caliber KT-001"?


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> *And the tactic works! Even though Rolex is pumping out 1MM+ watches every year, some collectors still believe they have something rare because "99.9% of Rolex production is ladies and gold models, so that leaves 100-200 Daytonas a year"*. A lot of people (myself included) like Microbrands for the perceived transparency - the recent moves by Ming and Kurono look like deviations from that ideal. I don't want to be too negative, but how long until Kurono starts calling the movement "Caliber KT-001"?


Exactly. Artificial scarcity is one of the most powerful sales tactics known to man. Which is why pretty much every luxury and quasi-luxury brand uses it to justify the prices of their products. Kurono saying that they want to eliminate artificial scarcity, which is essentially what they're saying when they feed us the "We want to discourage flippers" line, flies in the face of all sound marketing theories. And those who know sales and marketing know that the "We want to discourage flippers by hiding the batch size" logic is complete BS.

The only way to completely eliminate flipping is to eliminate artificial scarcity. But eliminating artificial scarcity (i.e. making the watch freely available) would cause secondary market values to tank, and thus the brand's prestige and perceived value for money would plummet.

And yes, there's clearly only 200 SS Daytonas produced per year...  At least that's what the Instagram fanbois who pay 4X retail tell themselves to help them justify the purchase. After all, it's "An investment." 😂


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

todoroki said:


> I keep coming back to this point, but the notion that keeping the official production numbers under wraps is going to somehow foil potential scalpers defies any kind of logic (at least to me). Say Kurono Tokyo announce that 2500 were sold, likely more by all our estimates, but let's put it at that figure for arguments sake. How does that possibly increase the potential resale price? Am I missing something here...?


It's got to be just because they said they wouldn't at this point. By reported order numbers, seems like there are ~3k ordered. No way that large of a share got cancelled. I can see scalpers getting a few for resale but when there are 3000 ordered, how many would it make sense to scalp and how much $$ does it make sense to tie up in that?

Also, an edition of 3000 for a small brand is hardly a LE. Number doesn't matter here though, it's really a time LE, an emergent kind of thing and likely why HODINKEE covered it. If it wasn't for sale for 10 min only and was offered for a year, would it have sold more or less? 

I do like the watch and do not regret placing the order but if it was available for longer, would you have ordered right away? I may have waited.


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

Another data point. 65xx - and got an email with timeline *November* *onwards through December...*

i'm dreaming of a toki Christmas


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

nitron135 said:


> It's got to be just because they said they wouldn't at this point. By reported order numbers, seems like there are ~3k ordered. No way that large of a share got cancelled. I can see scalpers getting a few for resale but when there are 3000 ordered, how many would it make sense to scalp and how much $$ does it make sense to tie up in that?
> 
> Also, an edition of 3000 for a small brand is hardly a LE. Number doesn't matter here though, it's really a time LE, an emergent kind of thing and likely why HODINKEE covered it. If it wasn't for sale for 10 min only and was offered for a year, would it have sold more or less?
> 
> I do like the watch and do not regret placing the order but if it was available for longer, would you have ordered right away? I may have waited.


 From the Hodinkee article:

_The final number of watches produced will never be revealed in order to combat avaricious speculators and flippers capitalizing on perceived scarcity. Serial numbers will be randomized in order to obscure the total number of watches produced._

That is frankly disingenuous for the reasons @Nordlys mentions above. They are now doing the exact opposite: giving the illusion of perceived scarcity by not announcing the production numbers which are several thousand.

It would be fine to just say they are not releasing the numbers and thats that. When they use it to virtue signal that it someway is part of an effort to campaign against evil flippers and scalpers then I'm afraid the emperor, or daimyo, has no clothes.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I really don't understand what is your problem with those numbers. I like the watch and totally don't care how many are there in the wild. All I know I'll have to wait until November December with my #65xx number. That makes the third batch I guess.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Finally got the email and I'm more frustrated about not getting my watch till the Nov-Dec time frame and like @svetoslav...I could really care less about knowing the number of units. Annoying that completing a transaction in 3 minutes (#59xx) puts you in the tail end of the deliveries plus that they have even pushed back the groups back a month from their original information (which should have been accurate since they knew the number sold by then). They had also said on IG that you could infer delivery times based on your email confirmation time (not 100% accurate but at least give you an idea) and that statement was completely false.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Sometimes I wonder why people post the stuff they do. If Kurono had said beforehand they would not be revealing the final figures for the orders received in order to deter flippers capitalising on perceived scarcity, I would be holding them to their word not to reveal the final figures. How is it that some people can read into this an attempt at virtue signalling or worse, an attempt at providing the illusion of perceived scarcity? If Kurono were to give in to these requests to provide the final figures, people like me will be thinking Kurono does not keep their word and worse, some might even think Kurono is behaving dishonourably. Will a Japanese company behave dishonourably in so blatant a manner so as to please some anonymous posters on the internet?

Now, as to whether Kurono should have promised beforehand they would not be releasing the final figures in order to deter flippers, this is a question one can have a decent debate on. I agree with this policy as I believe that Kurono could not know beforehand, yes, before Hodinkee and other media outlets publicised their offering, how big an order they would be receiving. In other words, it was quite probable there would actually be a low figure order and hence the concern with scarcity and the problem with flippers would have arisen. Hadn’t anyone seen or heard of someone commenting whether here or elsewhere about why he would not be ordering Toki because of the Miyota movement for example and so on?

Ok all this is just my 2 cents’ attempt at explanating what is going on. Fervently hoping the God who watches watchmakers and watchlovers everywhere will deliver me my Toki before 25 Dec so that I will have a wonderful Christmas!


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

From Kurono IG (Ingsoc)

_As previously mentioned, we will not be publishing the edition size for the Kurono Anniversary 朱鷺:Toki so as to prevent speculation from scalpers. We will not be announcing it, neither will be releasing this information privately to customers. All serial numbers will be randomized and we seek your kind co-operation not to share your order numbers for security reasons. We hope you understand our efforts in dampening demand amongst traders/flippers._

Teahound from the comments secion of Hodinkee

_Flippers do the market a lot of good and are the people who help to provide the "value" many of us assume our watches will have. Without flippers what's on our wrists is essentially worthless apart from raw materials and sentiments. Trying to ban speculation is like trying to ban free thought and action. It'll never happen and it's disingenuous to think or write otherwise. This is pure marketing, and rather a clever angle for a limited production capability brand to take. But it's still just marketing, clever or not. It's not deep. _


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## CydeWeys (Jan 16, 2021)

I would have gotten an earlier order number (1 minute into the ordering window), but there was some kind of IP geolocation on the order checkout flow that stymied me. I was using a credit card zipcode for NYC (where I live), but I happened to be on vacation in WV on a laptop during the ordering window, and it refused to let my order go through for that reason!! So I had to remote desktop into my work computer, which is in NYC and fortunately was on, log in, and then place the order from that. End result was the order went through 6 minutes into the ordering window, with an order number a couple thousand higher than it otherwise would've been, and now I'm many months delayed in receiving it. Oh well.

That IP geolocation hitch was nasty. Woe unto anyone who travels.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

CydeWeys said:


> I would have gotten an earlier order number (1 minute into the ordering window), but there was some kind of IP geolocation on the order checkout flow that stymied me. I was using a credit card zipcode for NYC (where I live), but I happened to be on vacation in WV on a laptop during the ordering window, and it refused to let my order go through for that reason!! So I had to remote desktop into my work computer, which is in NYC and fortunately was on, log in, and then place the order from that. End result was the order went through 6 minutes into the ordering window, with an order number a couple thousand higher than it otherwise would've been, and now I'm many months delayed in receiving it. Oh well.
> 
> That IP geolocation hitch was nasty. Woe unto anyone who travels.


This doesn't line up with my experience, I was using a Hong Kong credit card (and delivery address) but VPNed into Singapore from Shanghai and there were no hitches at all


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

todoroki said:


> From Kurono IG (Ingsoc)
> 
> _As previously mentioned, we will not be publishing the edition size for the Kurono Anniversary 朱鷺:Toki so as to prevent speculation from scalpers. We will not be announcing it, neither will be releasing this information privately to customers. All serial numbers will be randomized and we seek your kind co-operation not to share your order numbers for security reasons. We hope you understand our efforts in dampening demand amongst traders/flippers._
> 
> ...


Luckily, sometimes speculation is banned. It was this unfettered, free-market beauty that gave the world (well, America) Martin Shkreli.

Mind you I did chuckle at the idea of everything other than "raw materials" (labour, other direct and indirect costs, R&D, investment...) being worthless!


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

We should all be lucky to be able to afford a $2k device that tells time...and be happy to have secured ownership of a pretty unique piece of art...anything else does not matter to me much....am just lucky to be alive and posting on the great WUS site..  Happy Tuesday to all!


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## watchesinnature (Jan 1, 2020)

franksf said:


> We should all be lucky to be able to afford a $2k device that tells time...and be happy to have secured ownership of a pretty unique piece of art...anything else does not matter to me much....am just lucky to be alive and posting on the great WUS site..  Happy Tuesday to all!


This is a great mindset.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

franksf said:


> We should all be lucky to be able to afford a $2k device that tells time...and be happy to have secured ownership of a pretty unique piece of art...anything else does not matter to me much....am just lucky to be alive and posting on the great WUS site..  Happy Tuesday to all!


Indeed! (and for many of us that also got in on the MING drop, 2 of them)


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I love Kurono, but Ming is not my thing


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## Sarosto (Aug 6, 2014)

Hello guys, high 6k here, and I just got the confirmation that my order will be pushed through between Jan through Feb. A nice way to start a new year....


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Sarosto said:


> Hello guys, high 6k here, and I just got the confirmation that my order will be pushed through between Jan through Feb. A nice way to start a new year....


Wow! If this turns out to be the last group, then we are seeing the 1 month additional delay that was created when they made the first group 1 month longer continue for the entire release. Not sure what would create this 1 month delay right off the bat if they pre-manufactured like they said they did. Things can happen but I think their guidance on IG on inferring delivery dates was completely messed up and has likely created frustration. (I know it has for me.) There was a post by them saying based on a 10 minute release if you got the confirmation 5 minutes in you could infer being in the first 1/2 of the deliveries. Well it turns out 3 minutes in puts you in the second to last group. (assuming they didn't add additional groups which is TBD)


----------



## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

So many buyers crying like babies. If you were watch lovers you would get at least 5 watches to fill the waiting gap until Kurono arrives  I am now at number 1/5


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

svetoslav said:


> So many buyers crying like babies. If you were watch lovers you would get at least 5 watches to fill the waiting gap until Kurono arrives  I am now at number 1/5


Sounds like a plan....buy some other useless crap to fill the void till the one you want shows up.  Might work for those that flip but I actually keep my watches.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

christianj said:


> Sounds like a plan....buy some other useless crap to fill the void till the one you want shows up.  Might work for those that flip but I actually keep my watches.


I know you won't believe me, but I've never sold a single watch. And no need to buy crap or you claim Kurono is the only watch worth buying


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## Histrionics (Feb 5, 2021)

Anyone want to start a pool on what the colour for next year's anniversary watch will be?


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## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

svetoslav said:


> I love Kurono, but Ming is not my thing


me too

full disclosure: i didnt win the ming lottery so you can say i am a sore loser.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Pongster said:


> me too
> 
> full disclosure: i didnt win the ming lottery so you can say i am a sore loser.


Did you try for their 10 minute release a month or so ago? I think getting one of the Massena pieces was going to be pure luck....even if they had not gone to the lottery.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Histrionics said:


> Anyone want to start a pool on what the colour for next year's anniversary watch will be?


My bet would be ice blue. I think some shade of gold/yellow/honey would look good though.


----------



## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

christianj said:


> Did you try for their 10 minute release a month or so ago? I think getting one of the Massena pieces was going to be pure luck....even if they had not gone to the lottery.


Nope. Wasnt really a fan. But the honey dial caught my fancy. In a way, good i didnt win. More money for other watches.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> My bet would be ice blue. I think some shade of gold/yellow/honey would look good though.


I like the idea of both but one has to wonder if they won't get a ton of crap for doing just another dial variant for the 3rd Anniversary. (they already got some for just changing the dial on the Toki) I would hope they would release something "new" later in the year and then base the 3rd anniversary off that. Long-term I would think they need to do something "new" like a small variation of the case, lugs, etc. or even a larger size or something different.


----------



## Histrionics (Feb 5, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> My bet would be ice blue. I think some shade of gold/yellow/honey would look good though.


My bet would also be some sort of light blue, but I'd love something like a honey. My mind always goes back to that eggshell model.

I think it'd be really cool if they did a tuxedo model, with honey or creme in the centre and black or dark brown around the outer third.


----------



## Histrionics (Feb 5, 2021)

christianj said:


> I like the idea of both but one has to wonder if they won't get a ton of crap for doing just another dial variant for the 3rd Anniversary. (they already got some for just changing the dial on the Toki) I would hope they would release something "new" later in the year and then base the 3rd anniversary off that. Long-term I would think they need to do something "new" like a small variation of the case, lugs, etc. or even a larger size or something different.


I don't know why but I sorta assumed they'd just keep pumping out additional dial variants of the same original Anniversary design year after year, and try different things with the other models they release throughout the year.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Histrionics said:


> I don't know why but I sorta assumed they'd just keep pumping out additional dial variants of the same original Anniversary design year after year, and try different things with the other models they release throughout the year.


You might be right as no one but them knows.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Histrionics said:


> I don't know why but I sorta assumed they'd just keep pumping out additional dial variants of the same original Anniversary design year after year, and try different things with the other models they release throughout the year.


I think the market is to blame for their lack of creativity. Who would want to ruin the winning formula? I really like Asaoka's work on his own watches, but I don't think he ever thought Kurono would get that big - I think he envisioned it as something like SUF for Stepan Sarpaneva, a place to try some new design ideas as get some extra income. But now Kurono has become so big that I think Asaoka will stop making his own watches or start to charge obscene prices for them (I think his watches go for 50-60k+ now from the original price of around 20-25k several years ago). The market is rewarding him for laziness and I can't blame him for obliging.


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## MKTime (Aug 18, 2017)

Ugly Salmon Dials: The Shag Carpeting of the Watch World.


----------



## SKYWATCH007 (Oct 2, 2020)

Ice blue, or some light blue dial would be perfect!


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Some ice or light blue inspiration images from two great independence brands. ? ? (Images not mine and found online)


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## Histrionics (Feb 5, 2021)

Have they ever done a brown dial?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Histrionics said:


> Have they ever done a brown dial?


No. This article which has been referenced before might be a good article to see what they have done.









Hajime Asaoka: Chrono and Kurono, Bunkyō Tokyo - Grail Watch


Hajime Asaoka's more-affordable watches define the current trend of "must-have" limited-edition watches. Launched in 2018 for the domestic market as Chrono Tokyo and 2019 as Kurono Tokyo, these watches are an international sensation. In this article, I walk through every Chrono and Kurono watch...




grail-watch.com


----------



## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

christianj said:


> No. This article which has been referenced before might be a good article to see what they have done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


great article. thx for sharing....Any other reading material to share between now and October ???


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

MKTime said:


> Ugly Salmon Dials: The Shag Carpeting of the Watch World.


And people will be flipping that shag carpeting for a phat profit in a few months' time!


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

MKTime said:


> Ugly Salmon Dials: The Shag Carpeting of the Watch World.


seems to be a minority opinion if you judge the amount of salmon dials that have sold out/sought after even across brands


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## MKTime (Aug 18, 2017)

One-Seventy said:


> And people will be flipping that shag carpeting for a phat profit in a few months' time!


Like beanie babies. Guaranteed to give you retirement income.


----------



## MKTime (Aug 18, 2017)

golffoxtrot said:


> seems to be a minority opinion if you judge the amount of salmon dials that have sold out/sought after even across brands


I remember when cabbage patch dolls we something everyone had to have too. Just another passing fad that's ugly.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

MKTime said:


> I remember when cabbage patch dolls we something everyone had to have too. Just another passing fad that's ugly.


Still better than collections with 20 similar-looking black dial dive watches. You don't like salmon - don't buy it, why make a highly subjective claim on a thread about a salmon-ish dial watch?


----------



## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Still better than collections with 20 similar-looking black dial dive watches.


That


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Still better than collections with 20 similar-looking black dial dive watches. You don't like salmon - don't buy it, why make a highly subjective claim on a thread about a salmon-ish dial watch?


You can't have a Kurono or Ming thread without comments like that. So what if it's a fad? I'm going to enjoy my time on this bandwagon


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Still better than collections with 20 similar-looking black dial dive watches. You don't like salmon - don't buy it, why make a highly subjective claim on a thread about a salmon-ish dial watch?


I was thinking the same thing, although I held back hahha ... .thought about going to his for sale post and writing "would be interested if only it were salmon"


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Still better than collections with 20 similar-looking black dial dive watches. You don't like salmon - don't buy it, why make a highly subjective claim on a thread about a salmon-ish dial watch?


After seeing his collection in his sig, I found it somewhat ironic that he called another watch "ugly." Pot calling the kettle black much?

Something something glass houses and stone throwing.


----------



## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> The market is rewarding him for laziness and I can't blame him for obliging.


Clearly you've never bootstrapped a company.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

WatchEater666 said:


> Clearly you've never bootstrapped a company.


Oh no, I haven't. I am not criticizing Kurono. I just think that consumer behavior is to blame for what people are criticizing Kurono for (taking a year to change dial color etc)


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## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

Well I guess when a brand gets as much hype as Ming and Kurono you're bound to get detractors. I do wish I had this many people to discuss Minase with, though I guess I'm glad the brand has missed out on too much of the negative outside of the usual "it's just an ETA" thing. If these two brands do well and suck all the rabid flippers in like a Black Friday sale that's fine. That just means more calm and better prices for me in my unpopular shops. 😁


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

sleepyhead123 said:


> I do wish I had this many people to discuss Minase with


😂 I think Minase is best left a secret. Hype is nice for resale, but brings with it too much drama. I absolutely love the fact that I can get a Minase by just going to their website and paying for it.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

I‘m a Kurono fan and waiting on two models and I also checked out Minase a while ago. I liked what I saw but I think the design isn’t going to get as many fans since it’s a bit different and likely not everyones cup of tea. I also wonder how well the Minase design aesthetic is going to age…..Kurono on the other hand has a classic design that will still look good years into the future.


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## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

singularityseven said:


> 😂 I think Minase is best left a secret. Hype is nice for resale, but brings with it too much drama. I absolutely love the fact that I can get a Minase by just going to their website and paying for it.


True, I rather like the current situation where I can request #1 of their 15 watch anniversary run and get it with a discount. Being a big fish in a small pond is more fun than a minnow in the ocean.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

singularityseven said:


> 😂 I think Minase is best left a secret. Hype is nice for resale, but brings with it too much drama. I absolutely love the fact that I can get a Minase by just going to their website and paying for it.


It is not a secret now, but I just don't like them


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

sleepyhead123 said:


> That just means more calm and better prices for me in my unpopular shops. 😁


This is how I feel about anordain and Fears. In a way I'd like for them to get the recognition they deserve, but at the same time I'd rather they don't. With great recognition comes great hype... And all it entails.

I'm not sure on Minase but I know anordain and Fears sell well enough to keep them profitable and able to develop new projects. That's a win on my book.

Oh and add Garrick to the list. When they get "found" prices will skyrocket.


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## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

jmariorebelo said:


> This is how I feel about anordain and Fears. In a way I'd like for them to get the recognition they deserve, but at the same time I'd rather they don't. With great recognition comes great hype... And all it entails.
> 
> I'm not sure on Minase but I know anordain and Fears sell well enough to keep them profitable and able to develop new projects. That's a win on my book.
> 
> Oh and add Garrick to the list. When they get "found" prices will skyrocket.


Minase in the last few years went from <300 to <500 watches a year, though they are starting to really ramp up their SKUs as they make all kinds of colored Dividos. Since they make cases for other brands, it's probably hard to say if they are truly profitable (i.e. would they really be if they weren't sharing equipment and staff with Kyowa). I doubt they could've designed the Divido or 5/7 Windows on their own without the background. Imagine if a "usual" microbrand did that. They'd go bankrupt before the prototype phase.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> It is not a secret now, but I just don't like them


This. Minase isn't a "secret." Most fans of Japanese watches have heard of them. It's just that their design language is an acquired taste.

They certainly have their small group of loyal followers, but they'll never be a viral sensation simply due to the eccentric nature of their designs.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

sleepyhead123 said:


> Minase in the last few years went from <300 to <500 watches a year, though they are starting to really ramp up their SKUs as they make all kinds of colored Dividos. Since they make cases for other brands, it's probably hard to say if they are truly profitable (i.e. would they really be if they weren't sharing equipment and staff with Kyowa). I doubt they could've designed the Divido or 5/7 Windows on their own without the background. Imagine if a "usual" microbrand did that. They'd go bankrupt before the prototype phase.


Yeah, I agree also there's something technically to their designs, but maybe it because it hard to see in the metal and hard to appreciate the quality (similar with GS also really). I do wonder if they started using Miyota instead of ETA and drop the price 1K would it help their adoption, but more its a brand that I just need to wait till I have a chance to see on in reality as the design language doesn't play well in photos. (vs MING which, I guess since he's got the experience and still handling the shoots himself, he really knows how to emphaize the uniqueness of their design visually). I'd be interested in one of those square ones in a green dial fancy texture of some kind I think.

Out of curiousity, with all the watches you have, how do you rate their finishing vs some of the better finished ones in your collection


----------



## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

golffoxtrot said:


> Yeah, I agree also there's something technically to their designs, but maybe it because it hard to see in the metal and hard to appreciate the quality (similar with GS also really). I do wonder if they started using Miyota instead of ETA and drop the price 1K would it help their adoption, but more its a brand that I just need to wait till I have a chance to see on in reality as the design language doesn't play well in photos. (vs MING which, I guess since he's got the experience and still handling the shoots himself, he really knows how to emphaize the uniqueness of their design visually). I'd be interested in one of those square ones in a green dial fancy texture of some kind I think.
> 
> Out of curiousity, with all the watches you have, how do you rate their finishing vs some of the better finished ones in your collection


Minase's bracelet, "dial," and case finishing and fit is on par with VC, Bulgari, Credor, Blancpain, GP, and Piaget men's steel watches, and better than some of the models. It is above IWC, Rolex, Omega, and GS. To be honest I've always felt GS are well finished for their price point, but I've never understood the slavish praise they get for it as they are not that far above their peers. Credor I get, but not GS.

If you really see how much work and engineering goes into each individual component and how many individual components there are, you realize how much value there is in the watch. What you pay for in Minase is the case and bracelet engineering and the fit and finish that is in the 5 figure territory. Dropping the price by 1k would necessitate a different watch. Which they offer already. There is a reason why that bracelet is worth over 1k by itself. If that bracelet came with a brand with history, it'd probably be worth 2k.

Personally, I don't find Ming or Kuronos all that interesting. Neither of them offer enough above style to make me consider the price worthwhile. I don't get the impression from their pictures that the fit and finish are worth the price they are at, and since I don't like the style, that's unfortunately not enough to carry the price to me. If I were to go for a micro at that price, I'd go anOrdain.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Yep, I suppose I'm like that with Minase. I don't appreciate their style and I could't care less for the quality of finishing  As for the anOrdain I would buy the pink model 1, but I like the Kurono Toki much more actually.


----------



## nurpur (Feb 14, 2016)

sleepyhead123 said:


> Minase's bracelet, "dial," and case finishing and fit is on par with VC, Bulgari, Credor, Blancpain, GP, and Piaget men's steel watches, and better than some of the models. It is above IWC, Rolex, Omega, and GS. To be honest I've always felt GS are well finished for their price point, but I've never understood the slavish praise they get for it as they are not that far above their peers. Credor I get, but not GS.
> 
> If you really see how much work and engineering goes into each individual component and how many individual components there are, you realize how much value there is in the watch. What you pay for in Minase is the case and bracelet engineering and the fit and finish that is in the 5 figure territory. Dropping the price by 1k would necessitate a different watch. Which they offer already. There is a reason why that bracelet is worth over 1k by itself. If that bracelet came with a brand with history, it'd probably be worth 2k.
> 
> Personally, I don't find Ming or Kuronos all that interesting. Neither of them offer enough above style to make me consider the price worthwhile. I don't get the impression from their pictures that the fit and finish are worth the price they are at, and since I don't like the style, that's unfortunately not enough to carry the price to me. If I were to go for a micro at that price, I'd go anOrdain.


Well put and agree with all the above.

I have bought and sold, bought and sold for many many years. Eventually, you start to understand 
and appreciate what goes into making a good watch and a great watch. The attention to detail, 
engineering and craftsmanship is all there in the Minase. It is just not possible to have that quality 
of finish and fit for them to drop the price. The brands mentioned by _sleepyhead123 _have the history to 
charge the prices that they do - and no one begrudges them. I am not a bracelet person, but this is 
the only watch I have gone out of my way to purchase with one on. It is worth every penny of the 
asking price. I am contented and chilled out as our Kitty!


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

sleepyhead123 said:


> Minase's bracelet, "dial," and case finishing and fit is on par with VC, Bulgari, Credor, Blancpain, GP, and Piaget men's steel watches, and better than some of the models. It is above IWC, Rolex, Omega, and GS. To be honest I've always felt GS are well finished for their price point, but I've never understood the slavish praise they get for it as they are not that far above their peers. Credor I get, but not GS.
> 
> If you really see how much work and engineering goes into each individual component and how many individual components there are, you realize how much value there is in the watch. What you pay for in Minase is the case and bracelet engineering and the fit and finish that is in the 5 figure territory. Dropping the price by 1k would necessitate a different watch. Which they offer already. There is a reason why that bracelet is worth over 1k by itself. If that bracelet came with a brand with history, it'd probably be worth 2k.
> 
> Personally, I don't find Ming or Kuronos all that interesting. Neither of them offer enough above style to make me consider the price worthwhile. I don't get the impression from their pictures that the fit and finish are worth the price they are at, and since I don't like the style, that's unfortunately not enough to carry the price to me. If I were to go for a micro at that price, I'd go anOrdain.


Thanks for the info. I'm not sure that all GP and Piaget are at the same level as Credor or VC etc but of course it still good to know the level where Minase generally is sitting, will definitely check them out the next time I can travel to Japan.

For the price point question though, I still stand by my comment, regardless of how you rate "value" in the finishing -- they could go down by using a different movement. With trade margins how they are, to the end customer, this is at least a 500$ reduction, if not the 1K previously mentioned. And then more people would be interesting in giving them a look.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> Yep, I suppose I'm like that with Minase. I don't appreciate their style and I could't care less for the quality of finishing  As for the anOrdain I would buy the pink model 1, but I like the Kurono Toki much more actually.


Had the same thought on the Model 1 Pink actually, the Toki is going to hold value better in case I don't like it, can always sell and get the anordain later and I'm into art decoish styling on a dress watch in this shade (which you can't really find elsewhere).

For Minase, I think it looks interesting, but not yet to the buy level and if the visuals don't convey the "value" then they need to work on their marketing communications.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

So I guess the first batch of Toki should be delivered soon,,, excited to see some real world shots.
In the meantime, here is the true Holy Grail!


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

todoroki said:


> So I guess the first batch of Toki should be delivered soon,,, excited to see some real world shots.
> In the meantime, here is the true Holy Grail!
> View attachment 15953501


no email for my kurono delivery yet. I was fairly early on the orders as well.

I'm gonna need some more background on that watch you posted lol


----------



## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

golffoxtrot said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm not sure that all GP and Piaget are at the same level as Credor or VC etc but of course it still good to know the level where Minase generally is sitting, will definitely check them out the next time I can travel to Japan.
> 
> For the price point question though, I still stand by my comment, regardless of how you rate "value" in the finishing -- they could go down by using a different movement. With trade margins how they are, to the end customer, this is at least a 500$ reduction, if not the 1K previously mentioned. And then more people would be interesting in giving them a look.


Well obviously brands with a portfolio as large as GP, Piaget, Credor, or VC have a much wider range in finishing than small portfolios like Minase, Ming, or Kurono. And it has been a while since I've went to see GP. But Piaget non-Polos (I don't care for Gentas), yes.

I don't think all the people complaining about an ETA at 4-5k are going to stop complaining about a Miyota at 3-4k, especially given the reputation Miyota has amongst the unknowing masses here. There's a pretty hard groupthink around here that once you get to 2k, unless you're a big name brand, you aren't allowed to have a "cheap" movement. It's funny how it's tolerated in bigger brands like Longines, B&M, IWC, Breitling but not small brands. For me, I'm perfectly fine at that price point for an ETA 2842 or 2892 given the quality of the finishing. Sometimes in life you have to accept that you can't have everything and at a cheap price as well. And a cheap Miyota is not 500-1000 cheaper than a 2842, so you're asking for Minase to choose to undercut their margins when they make <500 watches a year.

Lastly I will say, the Japanese don't really care that much about the non-JDM market. Even Seiko, the brand pushing hardest outside Japan, still reserves a LOT of their really good SKUs for JDM. Citizen is also notorious for that. For some reason that's just their MO. I'm sure while Minase wouldn't mind more sales outside, they probably don't care all that much like the rest of them. Their electronics and car manufacturers are notorious for this too.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> no email for my kurono delivery yet. I was fairly early on the orders as well.
> 
> I'm gonna need some more background on that watch you posted lol


It was a special watch made for the Japanese version of the SUITS TV Show, and was part of one of their stories.









Kurono Tokyo - Chrono Tokyo - Bullseye : Thoughts &amp...


I just found another video review (in Japanese, but the YouTube auto translate seems to work reasonably well): At around 20:20, he lists all the Chrono and Kurono watches released till date with quantities. I corrected some of the KT ones based on information from the KT website. Chrono Tokyo...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

sleepyhead123 said:


> Well obviously brands with a portfolio as large as GP, Piaget, Credor, or VC have a much wider range in finishing than small portfolios like Minase, Ming, or Kurono. And it has been a while since I've went to see GP. But Piaget non-Polos (I don't care for Gentas), yes.
> 
> I don't think all the people complaining about an ETA at 4-5k are going to stop complaining about a Miyota at 3-4k, especially given the reputation Miyota has amongst the unknowing masses here. There's a pretty hard groupthink around here that once you get to 2k, unless you're a big name brand, you aren't allowed to have a "cheap" movement. It's funny how it's tolerated in bigger brands like Longines, B&M, IWC, Breitling but not small brands. For me, I'm perfectly fine at that price point for an ETA 2842 or 2892 given the quality of the finishing. Sometimes in life you have to accept that you can't have everything and at a cheap price as well. And a cheap Miyota is not 500-1000 cheaper than a 2842, so you're asking for Minase to choose to undercut their margins when they make <500 watches a year.
> 
> Lastly I will say, the Japanese don't really care that much about the non-JDM market. Even Seiko, the brand pushing hardest outside Japan, still reserves a LOT of their really good SKUs for JDM. Citizen is also notorious for that. For some reason that's just their MO. I'm sure while Minase wouldn't mind more sales outside, they probably don't care all that much like the rest of them. Their electronics and car manufacturers are notorious for this too.


Well said, and I think the same logic would apply if they moved higher in the price spectrum with a "better" movement too. I.e, if they threw in a Vaucher movement or La Joux Perret and charged you 8-9k for a watch, the people criticizing their choice of ETA2824/ETA2892 wouldn't necessarily be lining up to buy them. The 2824/2892 is actually a good choice of movement for them, since they seem to care mostly about design and engineering of case, dials and bracelets. The 2824/2892 is respected widely enough, and easy to service, without being perceived as a purely entry-level movement (Miyota 821A etc). The IWC Ingenieur 3239 got away with a 2824/200-1 on a roughly $6500 watch back in 2013, the Tudor Black Bay ETA on a $3000 watch, and a bunch of more examples from Breitling, IWC, etc.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Well said, and I think the same logic would apply if they moved higher in the price spectrum with a "better" movement too. I.e, if they threw in a Vaucher movement or La Joux Perret and charged you 8-9k for a watch, the people criticizing their choice of ETA2824/ETA2892 wouldn't necessarily be lining up to buy them. The 2824/2892 is actually a good choice of movement for them, since they seem to care mostly about design and engineering of case, dials and bracelets. The 2824/2892 is respected widely enough, and easy to service, without being perceived as a purely entry-level movement (Miyota 821A etc). The IWC Ingenieur 3239 got away with a 2824/200-1 on a roughly $6500 watch back in 2013, the Tudor Black Bay ETA on a $3000 watch, and a bunch of more examples from Breitling, IWC, etc.


Good point, I decided to wait until I could travel to Japan to check out a Minase in person, but you are making a compelling argument on why an ETA is "perfect" for what they are doing. Just curious, are you getting a SUF? Really want to see your review of it. That new 180T looks gorgeous, but might be a bit too much for a field watch imo.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

sleepyhead123 said:


> Well obviously brands with a portfolio as large as GP, Piaget, Credor, or VC have a much wider range in finishing than small portfolios like Minase, Ming, or Kurono. And it has been a while since I've went to see GP. But Piaget non-Polos (I don't care for Gentas), yes.
> 
> I don't think all the people complaining about an ETA at 4-5k are going to stop complaining about a Miyota at 3-4k, especially given the reputation Miyota has amongst the unknowing masses here. There's a pretty hard groupthink around here that once you get to 2k, unless you're a big name brand, you aren't allowed to have a "cheap" movement. It's funny how it's tolerated in bigger brands like Longines, B&M, IWC, Breitling but not small brands. For me, I'm perfectly fine at that price point for an ETA 2842 or 2892 given the quality of the finishing. Sometimes in life you have to accept that you can't have everything and at a cheap price as well. And a cheap Miyota is not 500-1000 cheaper than a 2842, so you're asking for Minase to choose to undercut their margins when they make <500 watches a year.
> 
> Lastly I will say, the Japanese don't really care that much about the non-JDM market. Even Seiko, the brand pushing hardest outside Japan, still reserves a LOT of their really good SKUs for JDM. Citizen is also notorious for that. For some reason that's just their MO. I'm sure while Minase wouldn't mind more sales outside, they probably don't care all that much like the rest of them. Their electronics and car manufacturers are notorious for this too.


Well I think you're introducing a few new issues, which I agree with (like the JDM focus etc.) and the complaints.

However getting back to the core issue, which is that the retail could drop 500-1K if they used a different movement, you don't just subtract the price. You need to factor for trade margins AFTER they integrate the movement (assuming some work done on it). So no doubt there is at least +500 of retail price here to the user. This is of course assuming they take the same margins (not less).

Yes you'll get move complainers (oh ETA was better before, but overall I think they will move more units). But if they are volume limited in production, then also not much point to do so. Anyways, based on your review of the finishing I hope to have a more serious look into it one day when travel resumes.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> no email for my kurono delivery yet. I was fairly early on the orders as well.
> 
> I'm gonna need some more background on that watch you posted lol


yeah what's that?


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> yeah what's that?


singularityseven responded above that it was a special kurono for a show


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Just got my shipping alert! Excited.


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

moheel said:


> Just got my shipping alert! Excited.


Same, but for the hiroshige strap lol. Even my C2 hasn't been shipped yet.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Well said, and I think the same logic would apply if they moved higher in the price spectrum with a "better" movement too. I.e, if they threw in a Vaucher movement or La Joux Perret and charged you 8-9k for a watch, the people criticizing their choice of ETA2824/ETA2892 wouldn't necessarily be lining up to buy them. The 2824/2892 is actually a good choice of movement for them, since they seem to care mostly about design and engineering of case, dials and bracelets. The 2824/2892 is respected widely enough, and easy to service, without being perceived as a purely entry-level movement (Miyota 821A etc). The IWC Ingenieur 3239 got away with a 2824/200-1 on a roughly $6500 watch back in 2013, the Tudor Black Bay ETA on a $3000 watch, and a bunch of more examples from Breitling, IWC, etc.


I've mentioned that a few times on WUS. Yes, another better movement would be better, but also much more expensive. Instead of being able to buy the quality Minase offers at 5k, we would be locked at 10k. Case in point, the new Laine V38. It's not and ETA, and it costs over 10k. Funny how it hasn't even been mentioned once on WUS.... I +1 you and Sleepy, if using ETA allows me to buy anordains, Fears and Mings at a more welcoming price point, so be it.

This said, I also believe using the 2824 is NOT good enough. You can use the much better and thinner 2892 for what's a small price difference compared to the full price of the watch. You say it as it is, "getting away with it". How Tudor manages to sell so many 2824 powered watches among the enthusiast realm is beyond me. Image a BB36 that's almost 2mm thinner....


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

sleepyhead123 said:


> Lastly I will say, the Japanese don't really care that much about the non-JDM market. Even Seiko, the brand pushing hardest outside Japan, still reserves a LOT of their really good SKUs for JDM. Citizen is also notorious for that. For some reason that's just their MO. I'm sure while Minase wouldn't mind more sales outside, they probably don't care all that much like the rest of them. Their electronics and car manufacturers are notorious for this too.


 That may have been the case previously, but not anymore. All the Japanese brands have international marketing teams and are actively pushing social media marketing towards the western market. The demographics of Japan (declining birth rate) has meant they are forced to adapt to survive.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

yellowfury said:


> no email for my kurono delivery yet. I was fairly early on the orders as well.


Have they even delivered all the Grand Akane orders yet? I know they seem to be behind on the Chrono 2 deliveries since they were supposed to be done in June and several of us are still waiting and that means they haven't even finished the Public Tier yet. I know the Chrono 2 is completely different than the Toki but if I'm not mistaken the Toki is essentially the same as Akane with the exception of the dial.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

moheel said:


> Just got my shipping alert! Excited.


Can you remind us your order number?


----------



## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

todoroki said:


> That may have been the case previously, but not anymore. All the Japanese brands have international marketing teams and are actively pushing social media marketing towards the western market. The demographics of Japan (declining birth rate) has meant they are forced to adapt to survive.


You should check the Japanese websites and JDM stores. They are actively pushing what they feel is appropriate for the gaijin market. They hold a ton of watches back for JDM. Even Minase, small as they are, have an entire line that is sold only in Japan.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

sleepyhead123 said:


> You should check the Japanese websites and JDM stores. They are actively pushing what they feel is appropriate for the gaijin market. They hold a ton of watches back for JDM. Even Minase, small as they are, have an entire line that is sold only in Japan.


Minase has some badass dial colors that haven't made it to the international market yet (I think?).


----------



## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

singularityseven said:


> Minase has some badass dial colors that haven't made it to the international market yet (I think?).
> 
> View attachment 15955485
> 
> ...


Yeah there's that too. Not only do they have more colors, but Japan also get a dial with Minase written in kanji at 6 o'clock. Sigh, the Japanese just don't seem to understand when people wave money at you, you should take it . . .


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

sleepyhead123 said:


> You should check the Japanese websites and JDM stores. They are actively pushing what they feel is appropriate for the gaijin market. They hold a ton of watches back for JDM. Even Minase, small as they are, have an entire line that is sold only in Japan.


Yes, you are right that they are actively pushing for the western market by emphasizing the foreign other of the Japanese aesthetic. GS I think started it with the "nature of time" Kurono use the katakana　クロノ logo which appeals to the weebs in the same way bastardized Engrish appeals to the Japanese. Minase have caught on and now also playing with it by putting the 皆瀬 logo on the bottom of coffee arabic model ruining an otherwise beautiful dial.


----------



## sleepyhead123 (Jun 2, 2014)

todoroki said:


> Yes, you are right that they are actively pushing for the western market by emphasizing the foreign other of the Japanese aesthetic. GS I think started it with the "nature of time" Kurono use the katakana　クロノ logo which appeals to the weebs in the same way bastardized Engrish appeals to the Japanese. Minase have caught on and now also playing with it by putting the 皆瀬 logo on the bottom of coffee arabic model ruining an otherwise beautiful dial.


To be honest I'm surprised I've not heard from anyone complaining about the brand not using their real name of Chrono Tokyo and using a mispelling phoenetic Kurono engrish in their offerings outside Japan. I just always put it down to Kurono looks exotic, even if it's not correct. There's not a lot of brands that would choose to present themselves with a misspelling. I'll admit, even before I saw the watch my first thought was "why do I want a misspelled watch?"


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Well it's not really misspelled as such, but I get your point and It certainly has led to some rather strange pronunciations from various youtuber reviewers @singularityseven being the exception.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

todoroki said:


> Yes, you are right that they are actively pushing for the western market by emphasizing the foreign other of the Japanese aesthetic. GS I think started it with the "nature of time" Kurono use the katakana　クロノ logo which appeals to the weebs in the same way bastardized Engrish appeals to the Japanese. Minase have caught on and now also playing with it by putting the 皆瀬 logo on the bottom of coffee arabic model ruining an otherwise beautiful dial.


I believe I read somewhere that the coffee dial 皆瀬 marking was done at the request of 10:10 labs, since this was a collaboration piece for their "collectors". I could be wrong though.



todoroki said:


> Well it's not really misspelled as such, but I get your point and It certainly has led to some rather strange pronunciations from various youtuber reviewers @singularityseven being the exception.


Haha thanks, but i'm sure I butchered the pronunciations on that one.


----------



## atomicnumber28 (May 21, 2021)

moheel said:


> Just got my shipping alert! Excited.


Awww, even though my order is before 42XX I've yet to receive my shipping notification 

Hopefully I get the notification soon


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

atomicnumber28 said:


> Awww, even though my order is before 42XX I've yet to receive my shipping notification
> 
> Hopefully I get the notification soon


damn you're at 42? I thought I was early at 44 and I ordered almost on the dot.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> damn you're at 42? I thought I was early at 44 and I ordered almost on the dot.


I thought I was fast at 46xx


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Does that mean we take his statement of a shipping notification for the Toki with a grain of salt? He hasn't provided part of his order number yet lol.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Does that mean we take his statement of a shipping notification for the Toki with a grain of salt? He hasn't provided part of his order number yet lol.


Was in creepy stalker mood and went up to look at old replies. His order number is 42xx.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Can you remind us your order number?


Yup. It's 42XX. So one of the early ones.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Does that mean we take his statement of a shipping notification for the Toki with a grain of salt? He hasn't provided part of his order number yet lol.


Ha. I have a DHL tracking number. So unless it gets stuck at customs for a few days like my Chrono 2 did, I should have it Monday and will be happy to post pics. 🙂


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

atomicnumber28 said:


> Awww, even though my order is before 42XX I've yet to receive my shipping notification
> 
> Hopefully I get the notification soon


Wonder if certain countries are shipping a bit earlier (within a specific set of numbers). I'm also a 42XX but based in the US.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Glad to hear some lucky persons will be receiving their Toki soon. Waiting to see some wristshots haha.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Ah geez. I'm an idiot. 🤣 I just went back to my "your order has shipped" confirmation to take a screenshot for this thread. My Wakatake-iro (bamboo) strap is on its way and arrives Monday. That was a 37xx number. 

False alarm. My apologies. Toki has not shipped as yet. ☹

This is what happens when you late night post after a few scotches. Take heed kids.


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

moheel said:


> . My Wakatake-iro (bamboo) strap is on its way and arrives Monday. That was a 37xx number.


And that was my initial response to your post as well lol.

Kurono just posted an update.


> Over the past few weeks, the Kurono team has been working long and hard hours to prepare for our first batch of Anniversary Toki to be shipped out. We are extremely happy to announce that shipments will be beginning asap with shipments out weekly. We look forward to seeing your first reactions and unboxing experiences!
> 
> As previously promised, all orders will be shipped out according to order queue to ensure fairness to all. The Kurono team would like to wholeheartedly thank our Kurono Family for the continuous support and kind understanding as we strive to provide the best possible experience for you.
> 
> We hope you look forward to receiving your Anniversary Toki and once again, thank you for celebrating two years with Kurono Tokyo!


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

No offense intended to anyone who bought the straps but personally I wish they would cut out selling them altogether if it allowed them to ship the watches out more quickly.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

todoroki said:


> No offense intended to anyone who bought the straps but personally I wish they would cut out selling them altogether if it allowed them to ship the watches out more quickly.


One shouldn't impact the other&#8230;..if it did maybe they should finally first get all the Chrono 2 orders out that people are still waiting for before they ship either the strap or the Toki. Definitely getting impatient waiting for the Chrono to finally arrive!


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

christianj said:


> they should finally first get all the Chrono 2 orders out that people are still waiting for before they ship either the strap or the Toki


I feel like people who ordered both will get their Toki sooner. Kurono just posted an update that chrono2 order is pushed out and completed by end of July.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

__
http://instagr.am/p/CQdBaJNrWrY/


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Something tells me it is going to be a slow trickle instead of a mass shipment, like maybe 50-70 watches a week or something


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Kurono also posted this today-


__
http://instagr.am/p/CQdgezOrcb0/

Sounds like the 10 minute window may (read- will) be shortened next year and there will be fewer watches (or variations) overall in 2022 due to supply issues


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

yellowfury said:


> Kurono also posted this today-
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Just last week they told me everything was on time. They had to have known all of this last week. Reality is they haven't even made it through the Public Tier yet on the Chrono 2 and even though they are now posting about the delay it's because people are asking for updates since they were supposed to be done by now. They should clarify if their 87% is of the entire lot or 87% of the Public Tier. They knew how many of these guys they sold so sourcing shouldn't be a reason for their delays. If delays are due to quality control&#8230;.maybe focus that effort on the watches that should have been delivered by now instead of moving onto the next model. I think there are still people waiting on an Akane and then they announce they are going to start shipping the Tokis&#8230;.just makes no sense.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> there will be fewer watches (or variations) overall in 2022 due to supply issues


Interesting development.

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if this has anything to do with the abundance of supply and insufficient demand with all the inflated price Kurono Tokyo watches on Chrono24.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> Interesting development.
> 
> The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if this has anything to do with the abundance of supply and insufficient demand with all the inflated price Kurono Tokyo watches on Chrono24.


Various models are also showing up on sites with prices closer to list. Reality is I could have picked up a Chrono 2 from a reseller recently for around the same price as the direct price from Kurono&#8230;..plus I would have had it before I'm actually going to now to get my watch from Kurono based on their new timeline.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

christianj said:


> Various models are also showing up on sites with prices closer to list. Reality is I could have picked up a Chrono 2 from a reseller recently for around the same price as the direct price from Kurono&#8230;..plus I would have had it before I'm actually going to now to get my watch from Kurono based on their new timeline.


Where are you seeing them for close to list (out of curiosity and if you don't mind sharing)?

I love the designs and I'm happy to pay for them at the "direct from Kurono"price. I'd never buy them at the Chrono24 prices.

Potentially interested in a chronograph 1. But wouldn't pay much over list.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

christianj said:


> Various models are also showing up on sites with prices closer to list. Reality is I could have picked up a Chrono 2 from a reseller recently for around the same price as the direct price from Kurono&#8230;..plus I would have had it before I'm actually going to now to get my watch from Kurono based on their new timeline.


yes, assuming its not against the rules, can you provide the source for the "close to list"? when I look at watchcharts for the SOLD ones, I don't see any pricing like that at all


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> Kurono also posted this today-
> 
> 
> __
> ...


well now that they know roughly the demand for 10 mins, they can do a pre-production batch that probably more closely aligns to the actualy demand (and also align the demand by adjusting the window to what they can roughly pre-produce)


----------



## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

If Kurono lower the time window to 5 minutes the number of sold watches would drop very little, they would be no less than 90% compared to 10 mins.


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

My guess is that different models have different production times due to supply chain/component delays. Watches are kind of like auto supply chains where missing one component, even small, can delay things a lot. The Toki is a lot more straight forward to produce than something like a chronograph. Keep in mind Covid has completely screwed supply chains. Product that used to take me 45 days to get and $3500 in freight is now 6 months and $13,000 in freight. Not saying it’s the exact case here, but probably a contributing factor. 

Other thing, I don’t think the founder is an entrepreneur per se. Great artist and creative but given the complete lack of CRO and basic other methods they could be using to manage preorders, it’s clear he’s an artist first and not an entrepreneur. Nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn’t expect overly accurate timelines when it comes to anything.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@moheel Just sent you a PM

@golffoxtrot Juat sent you a PM

A quick ebay search shows where the current prices are at (and at what they have sold for) outside of the inflated website often referenced here as a price guide.


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

christianj said:


> @moheel Just sent you a PM
> 
> @golffoxtrot Juat sent you a PM
> 
> A quick ebay search shows where the current prices are at (and at what they have sold for) outside of the inflated website often referenced here as a price guide.


Thank you for taking the time. On eBay it does look like the chronograph 2 is the only watch selling close to list. Maybe it's polarizing/not very popular/ less in demand because of higher production numbers?

Others, not so much. I see the Reiwa for 9k!


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

moheel said:


> Thank you for taking the time. On eBay it does look like the chronograph 2 is the only watch selling close to list. Maybe it's polarizing/not very popular/ less in demand because of higher production numbers?
> 
> Others, not so much. I see the Reiwa for 9k!


People can ask for what they want&#8230;it doesn't mean they are going to get 9k for it&#8230;..especially if another one is listed at $5.5k.


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

$5.5 K is still a huge markup so saying they are now going for close to list price is misleading. The chronograph 2 will be available at less of a markup than the others due to the higher production numbers for sure but the only ones that are going for list price are the JDM models which are still for sale on Neuve.


----------



## gee_cee (Nov 21, 2011)

Looks like the first batch of 'Toki' are getting ready to ship, judging by his Facebook updates. Will be interested to see one in real-world lighting.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Minase has some badass dial colors that haven't made it to the international market yet (I think?).
> 
> View attachment 15955485


that white one is nice... in fact this is the best looking one i've seen so far...


----------



## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

at times I really get confused, is this a thread for Kurono or Minase?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

svetoslav said:


> at times I really get confused, is this a thread for Kurono or Minase?


Has a WUS thread ever stayed only on topic, 21 pages in?


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@todoroki My reference about close to retail was about the Chrono 2 if you reread what I posted. I did NOT say Reiwa was at close to retail but merely pointed out that the $9k referenced was on the high end by saying there's also one available at $5.5k (which we all know is a premium) &#8230;&#8230;..so not misleading at all.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> at times I really get confused, is this a thread for Kurono or Minase?


well there's nothing kurono to talk about now, I think most people reading this thread will be interested in both.... technically probably against the rules, so I'm fine to stop if required


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

golffoxtrot said:


> well there's nothing kurono to talk about now, I think most people reading this thread will be interested in both.... technically probably against the rules, so I'm fine to stop if required


But isn't that why there is a Minase thread? To talk about Minase.









🗾🔰 Minase Owners Thread 🔰🗾







www.watchuseek.com


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

We're approaching July so hopefully, we'll see shipment notifications coming out soon


----------



## gee_cee (Nov 21, 2011)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> We're approaching July so hopefully, we'll see shipment notifications coming out soon


I've yet to see an owner's photo posted anywhere, although earliest shipping date was supposedly mid June (through to Aug) for the first batch


----------



## Patrick Phillip (Jun 30, 2021)




----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

gee_cee said:


> I've yet to see an owner's photo posted anywhere, although earliest shipping date was supposedly mid June (through to Aug) for the first batch


That's what I was thinking. Could just be slightly delayed.



Patrick Phillip said:


> View attachment 15970220


Not another hiroshige strap tracking lol.


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Patrick Phillip said:


> View attachment 15970220


Awesome. I'm a 42XX so hopefully that means mine will ship in the next week or so.


----------



## ensi (Jun 21, 2012)

I received the shipping information today, #423x


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

ensi said:


> I received the shipping information today, #423x


Ah, seems it will be about 2 weeks until my turn.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

What looks like the first owner pic showed up on IG today! Press pictures were pretty true to reality based on this.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CQyiiiKMq6x/


----------



## atomicnumber28 (May 21, 2021)

christianj said:


> What looks like the first owner pic showed up on IG today! Press pictures were pretty true to reality based on this.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CQyiiiKMq6x/


Nah, that's just a nice watch strap placed on top of an iPhone showing this picture: https://timeandtidewatches.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/KURONO-Toki-6.png

Well taken photo though


----------



## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

atomicnumber28 said:


> Nah, that's just a nice watch strap placed on top of an iPhone showing this picture: https://timeandtidewatches.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/KURONO-Toki-6.png
> 
> Well taken photo though


Yup. Plus, the strap is different from the one that we are supposed to get with the Toki.


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## Patrick Phillip (Jun 30, 2021)

The strap arrived&#8230;


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Looks almost matte pink in that photo. No sign of the sunburst.


----------



## Patrick Phillip (Jun 30, 2021)

todoroki said:


> Looks almost matte pink in that photo. No sign of the sunburst.


It's pretty crappy indoor lighting


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

ensi said:


> I received the shipping information today, #423x


Same. Mine arrives next week. Not the strap this time 🤣


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Patrick Phillip said:


> It's pretty crappy indoor lighting


More photos please!


----------



## Sarosto (Aug 6, 2014)

Yes., lots and lots more pics, please kind sir


----------



## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

For the US based folks. What was the tax hit?


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

atomicnumber28 said:


> Nah, that's just a nice watch strap placed on top of an iPhone showing this picture: https://timeandtidewatches.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/KURONO-Toki-6.png
> 
> Well taken photo though


You guys are good! I was fooled. 



todoroki said:


> Looks almost matte pink in that photo. No sign of the sunburst.


I was thinking the same thing....almost skin tone like. Hope it has more pop with better lighting.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

christianj said:


> I was thinking the same thing....almost skin tone like. Hope it has more pop with better lighting.


This is just how sunburst dials are, here's my Hudson colourshifting


----------



## atomicnumber28 (May 21, 2021)

Now that the first batch of watches is being delivered, how much do you reckon potential flippers might list the prices for?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

atomicnumber28 said:


> Now that the first batch of watches is being delivered, how much do you reckon potential flippers might list the prices for?


It only makes sense that they start with $10k


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> It only makes sense that they start with $10k


They're the first to market, they set whatever price they want. Let's make it 100k!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> They're the first to market, they set whatever price they want. Let's make it 100k!


That's better. $100k it is. And since we live in a world where asking price = market price, the Kurono Toki shall now be valued at $100k.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> That's better. $100k it is. And since we live in a world where asking price = market price, the Kurono Toki shall now be valued at $100k.
> 
> View attachment 15974378


Jokes aside, at what price would the normally ethical microbrand connoisseurs turn into dirty flippers?


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Jokes aside, at what price would the normally ethical microbrand connoisseurs turn into dirty flippers?


Above retail.

I for one think if the watches sell out this quickly, the brands should increase their asking price. But if they don't, that's with them. People who resell watches above the prices the actual manufacturer deem correct are profiting and leeching off the labour of others. Flippers add no value, at all.

I understand the market dictates the price. It does make sense and in practical terms it has to happen. Its the only way our world can keep moving forward. But in my utopic society it wouldn't happen.

I wonder what would happen if Kurono sold the next model in an auction basis. One watch at a time, sell it to the highest bidder. Would be excellent to watch. Wonder if the backlash would be enough to break the Internet. Because that's effectively what "the market" does.


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## BigMoufPosy (Dec 24, 2016)

christianj said:


> You guys are good! I was fooled.
> 
> I was thinking the same thing....almost skin tone like. Hope it has more pop with better lighting.


I wouldn't be worried at all. The Mori has the same dial texture, but look at this matte-as-hell shot! It will look like an entirely different dial depending on the lighting.










By the way, since this seems to be the most active Kurono Tokyo thread, I just wanted to share a cool recent experience with the brand. I bought the Hiroshige Tamenuri box and it was delivered back in April. There was a small defect in the maki-e, which was noticeable but not too big of a deal, so I sent them an email to get an idea of my options. They said I could ship it back and they'll have a new one made in a couple of months and sent to me.

I ended up opting to keep it, as it really wasn't a huge deal to me and I didn't want to deal with a prolonged wait, including shipping it internationally and then waiting a couple of months. I let them know, and they understood - and I thought that was the end of it. Last week, 2 months later and completely unprompted, they sent me an email saying that they had a box newly made and asked again if they could replace mine, as the previous box with a defect was totally unacceptable to them. They arranged shipping, had DHL show up to my house to pick it up, and it's en route to them as we speak.

This month is going to be a Kurono Tokyo heavy month for me as I'm now expecting deliveries of the replacement box, the Wakatake-iro strap, and the Toki!


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

BigMoufPosy said:


> so I sent them an email to get an idea of my options. They said I could ship it back and they'll have a new one made in a couple of months and sent to me.


They did something similar for me for the collector's book. Pages were not dried enough so most the pages got stuck and peeled, but still manageable as the text were all still legible. Just sent them a feedback for it as I don't want to bother them sending another book. They sent me a new one either way. Since then, take my money KT!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

__
http://instagr.am/p/CQ1M02XrTux/


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

I have a feeling this watch will be heavily flipped. That's_ very_ pink.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Very beautiful if you ask me.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

@jmariorebelo Yeah, Kurono was accurate in their description. It's definitely not a Salmon color. Way too far into the pink end of the spectrum to be called a Salmon.

It's pretty much spot on with the Tokiha-iro HEX color (#f58f84).


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Looks great and sure to be dynamic in different lighting conditions like all kurono dials.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

That was quick! At this point with the numbers they have likely shipped they should be able to figure out who this flipper is.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

BigMoufPosy said:


> I wouldn't be worried at all. The Mori has the same dial texture, but look at this matte-as-hell shot! It will look like an entirely different dial depending on the lighting.
> 
> View attachment 15974397
> 
> ...


That's Japanese customer service for you

good to see they stand by all their products


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

christianj said:


> But isn't that why there is a Minase thread? To talk about Minase.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah i guess that's for ppl directly interested, I'm not interested enough to go there yet hahha


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

We have our first private listing via reddit.

"Selling to fund an educational endeavor."


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## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> We have our first private listing via reddit.
> 
> "Selling to fund an educational endeavor."


Crazy price listing, I wonder how long the listing will stay at the price for before being reduced in price. 
[Edit: looks like it's deleted anyway]

As a user above stated, IRL it seems to have a much more pink hue. I'm intrigued to see how many of these find there way onto the secondary market as a result of people maybe changing their mind on the piece (rather than purchased for the sole purpose of being flipped)

I'm just happy that the Reddit bot makes sure sellers include pictures. Can't complain about more live pictures showing off the watch in a variety of lights - eagerly awaiting my expected November shipping date, so these live photos from all of you will have to tied me over til then....


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## Patrick Phillip (Jun 30, 2021)

It's definitely a matte texture more than a sunburst, but it still looks metallic. I tried to get a sunlight shot but Melbourne is pretty overcast in the winter (and summer).
This is my first Kurono but my impression is that the markers and the cut(?) concentric circles look like they're from something that would cost 20-50k and the rest looks the price but is beautifully designed.


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## Patrick Phillip (Jun 30, 2021)

I’d really **** with a hesalite version though.


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## Silvek (Nov 22, 2018)

MojoS said:


> Crazy price listing, I wonder how long the listing will stay at the price for before being reduced in price.
> [Edit: looks like it's deleted anyway]
> 
> As a user above stated, IRL it seems to have a much more pink hue. I'm intrigued to see how many of these find there way onto the secondary market as a result of people maybe changing their mind on the piece (rather than purchased for the sole purpose of being flipped)
> ...


Anyone know why the post was deleted? Did it sell?


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## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Well, the first pieces are arriving in Singapore... Some seen in the local watch groups, presumably to wear. Two (or maybe three) already for sale in the local equivalent to Craigslist, asking around 4K USD









kurono toki - View all kurono toki ads in Carousell Singapore


Browse results for kurono toki on Carousell Singapore. Brand new and used for sale. Chat to buy!




www.carousell.sg


----------



## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

And crazy listing in Chrono 24: Kurono Tokyo KURONO ANNIVERSARY 朱鷺:TOKI for $7,258 for sale from a Seller on Chrono24


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Silvek said:


> Anyone know why the post was deleted? Did it sell?


Probably because it got downvoted or somebody PM-ed him lol.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

So, the moment the watches start to get delivered, they start to get sold on the used market for exorbitant prices. Wonder if that is what some people mean by flipping... 🤔

Anyway, sad to see we haven't reached 100k in the first few watches. Dare to dream, everything is possible! To the mooooooon!


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

guillelle said:


> And crazy listing in Chrono 24: Kurono Tokyo KURONO ANNIVERSARY 朱鷺:TOKI for $7,258 for sale from a Seller on Chrono24


That was the one I referenced in an earlier post shown above.


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Having seen the pic in post 444 above, the dial does look pinkish. I have no issue with the colour pink though I am a bit concerned this particular shade may clash with my skin tone. Nonetheless, I am looking forward to receiving mine in the months ahead. Hoping too the dial colour will appear differently under different lighting conditions haha.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I don't understand why some are surprised by the pinkness of the color. It is exactly the same as on the Kurono website and it is inspired by a crested ibis and sunsets, not a salmon fish meat  I love that Toki is not just another salmon watch, but I love pink, anOrdain pink dial is on my list too


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> I don't understand why some are surprised by the pinkness of the color. It is exactly the same as on the Kurono website and it is inspired by a crested ibis and sunsets, not a salmon fish meat  I love that Toki is not just another salmon watch, but I love pink, anOrdain pink dial is on my list too


I'm not surprised by the shade of the colour itself, more that so many people apparently like it. Either I'm wrong and pink is a colour in demand, or I'm right and adding to all those who bought just to flip, there will be quite a few that will be surprised when they see the watch in the metal.


----------



## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

btw that brown strap is totally out of harmony with the watch


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> I'm not surprised by the shade of the colour itself, more that so many people apparently like it. Either I'm wrong and pink is a colour in demand, or I'm right and adding to all those who bought just to flip, there will be quite a few that will be surprised when they see the watch in the metal.


I was told by more than 1 Rolex AD that the pink OPs have been among the top 3 most popular, and some ADs mentioned it being even more "desirable" than the glorious "Tiffany" OP. So could be a smart move from Hajime-san.


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## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Probably because it got downvoted or somebody PM-ed him lol.


I'd probably assume the former. People like leaving their listings as 'sold' and tagging the necessary Reddit bots to get their profile transaction count up (if they do intend to sell more on r/watchexchange down the line.)


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Nice to see real wrist shots. Mine is still with customs and given the national holiday today, won’t clear till I pay duties sometime tomorrow. I hope that means it will arrive Friday.


----------



## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

I want to throw mine on a milanese/mesh bracelet...


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

WatchEater666 said:


> I want to throw mine on a milanese/mesh bracelet...


I've been looking for a good Milanese bracelet! Any suggestions on where to get one? My concern is I have an ~6 inch wrist. I bought one from Amazon recently and it did not fit. Can they be re-sized?


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Staib for sure. Nothing compares to their quality.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Just to see some actual photos of the watch albeit in wrappings. 
Outrageous asking price again. I don't know how Kurono is unable to pinpoint the exact buyer who immediately tries to resell the watch. Not that I personally am against reselling at free market prices, but Kurono is very against speculation, so their watch their rules I suppose.

Actual photos - ebay listing


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> Just to see some actual photos of the watch albeit in wrappings.
> Outrageous asking price again. I don't know how Kurono is unable to pinpoint the exact buyer who immediately tries to resell the watch. Not that I personally am against reselling at free market prices, but Kurono is very against speculation, so their watch their rules I suppose.
> 
> Actual photos - ebay listing


Wait that's an auction starting at 6.5k??? Not even the asking price?

Absolute lunacy.


----------



## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Looks like some flippers are in action already based on some of the above posts. Wonder if they had bought with the original intention to flip or whether they really dislike the colour and hence has decided to sell at what they are perceiving to be the current ‘market’ price? If the latter, assuming one can tell for sure, such an action is perhaps understandable. I suspect it is the former though.


----------



## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I think they've bought to flip. How could you decide you didn't like the watch when even not removing the wraps


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Where's the guy I was altercating with earlier in this thread who said the resale prices wouldn't go above $5k!?!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Has anyone else been following Kurono & Chrono Tokyo listings on Chrono24? 

There are over 70 listings now, from about 50 when I checked 8-10 days ago. It looks like a lot of people just bought these watches (Chronograph 2, Grand Akane) to flip, and are not having much luck. Because the total number of listings only keeps increasing, with very little movement. I also watch MING, and theirs is pretty steady traffic (5-6 are listed every week, and 5-6 are sold every week). 

I suspect a Kurono bubble burst in the near future. I think the Toki will be ok, because it's the latest shiny object, but I think some of the older pieces will struggle to sell for the prices being quoted.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

So I'll wait for the bubble to burst and will buy a chrono for 1000$ haha


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Has anyone else been following Kurono & Chrono Tokyo listings on Chrono24?
> 
> There are over 70 listings now, from about 50 when I checked 8-10 days ago. It looks like a lot of people just bought these watches (Chronograph 2, Grand Akane) to flip, and are not having much luck. Because the total number of listings only keeps increasing, with very little movement. I also watch MING, and theirs is pretty steady traffic (5-6 are listed every week, and 5-6 are sold every week).
> 
> I suspect a Kurono bubble burst in the near future. I think the Toki will be ok, because it's the latest shiny object, but I think some of the older pieces will struggle to sell for the prices being quoted.


That's what I can't understand. Under a normal market, lots of offers = prices drop. But with Rolex and these hyped micros like Kurono, the supply keeps increasing (thousands and tens of watches respectively) yet the prices are the same. It's as if everybody got together and said "alright, we're gonna post our watches for ridiculous prices. If everybody does their part, there won't be any at msrp or lower and nobody will have any other option than to pay".

I mean, there are 572 ceramic daytonas listed on chrono 24 alone. Yet they all cost ~3x msrp. This is insane!

As for the bubble bursting... I can't see it happening. They either make a profit or don't sell.


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

jmariorebelo said:


> That's what I can't understand. Under a normal market, lots of offers = prices drop. But with Rolex and these hyped micros like Kurono, the supply keeps increasing (thousands and tens of watches respectively) yet the prices are the same. It's as if everybody got together and said "alright, we're gonna post our watches for ridiculous prices. If everybody does their part, there won't be any at msrp or lower and nobody will have any other option than to pay".
> 
> I mean, there are 572 ceramic daytonas listed on chrono 24 alone. Yet they all cost ~3x msrp. This is insane!
> 
> As for the bubble bursting... I can't see it happening. They either make a profit or don't sell.


I've been following/tracking some of the eBay listings. They send you an email for what the watch sold for after the auction ends.

Chronograph 2 has been selling for ~5K-6K (albeit a very small sample size). So, no where near what the sellers are asking for, but still above list.

Gonna follow this one as well. I'd be shocked if it sells for 3x list!


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

svetoslav said:


> I think they've bought to flip. How could you decide you didn't like the watch when even not removing the wraps


One could place the watch against one's wrist to do a colour check for example. The colour may not contrast well with certain skin tones. I agree with you though that those putting up their Toki for sales are most likely flippers.

When I get my Toki, I will likely be swapping out the strap as it looks a bit 'cheap' from pics. Or maybe the pics don't do it justice where the strap may actually be much better than it looks.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

jmariorebelo said:


> That's what I can't understand. Under a normal market, lots of offers = prices drop. But with Rolex and these hyped micros like Kurono, the supply keeps increasing (thousands and tens of watches respectively) yet the prices are the same. It's as if everybody got together and said "alright, we're gonna post our watches for ridiculous prices. If everybody does their part, there won't be any at msrp or lower and nobody will have any other option than to pay".
> 
> I mean, there are 572 ceramic daytonas listed on chrono 24 alone. Yet they all cost ~3x msrp. This is insane!
> 
> As for the bubble bursting... I can't see it happening. They either make a profit or don't sell.


I think the prices are coming down slowly too. Remember when the Chronograph 1 was listed for $10-$12k? Could be just outliers 🤷‍♂️


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Yeah I think there is a sense of collector fatigue setting in now. You have a select top tier of colour variations which I think will always be highly priced, above a substantial bunch of less desirable pieces that don't seem to be shifting.

With regards to the Toki, y'know Im really curious to how similar the colour is to the outer ring of the Reiwa copper. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the same. Would love to see a comparison.


----------



## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

todoroki said:


> Yeah I think there is a sense of collector fatigue setting in now. You have a select top tier of colour variations which I think will always be highly priced, above a substantial bunch of less desirable pieces that don't seem to be shifting.
> 
> With regards to the Toki, y'know Im really curious to how similar the colour is to the outer ring of the Reiwa copper. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the same. Would love to see a comparison.


 Yep, a whole year experiments and tests for the same color haha


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

what about the latest sold on watchcharts? I think the Toki prices will come down to under the 5500 that the Mori went for a month ago in the long term (as there are more) , but above the bullseye that went fro 3650 last week (as the color is more striking and this pink/salmon thing tends to generate value in micro brand release... ie. the baltic sector or even the recent Habring x (some watch site I forgot) that sold out like basically right away).


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

jmariorebelo said:


> But with Rolex and these hyped micros like Kurono, the supply keeps increasing (thousands and tens of watches respectively) yet the prices are the same. It's as if everybody got together and said "alright, we're gonna post our watches for ridiculous prices.


Reality is when someone goes to sell, they are going to price the watch at what is currently the price others are listed for (or slightly under if they are motivated to sell).......hence the reason pricing is pretty close for all the different sellers. What the watches actually sell for is another thing and depends on how greedy a seller is or how desperate they are to sell.



singularityseven said:


> Has anyone else been following Kurono & Chrono Tokyo listings on Chrono24?
> 
> There are over 70 listings now, from about 50 when I checked 8-10 days ago. It looks like a lot of people just bought these watches (Chronograph 2, Grand Akane) to flip, and are not having much luck. Because the total number of listings only keeps increasing, with very little movement. I also watch MING, and theirs is pretty steady traffic (5-6 are listed every week, and 5-6 are sold every week).


Honestly I think the number of listings will also vary depending on how many watches Kurono sends out. I just got my Chrono 2 yesterday and there had been a lull in shipments for at least the last 4-6 weeks where it appeared none were being shipped to buyers. Now they are sending out batches so I assume those that bought just to flip will list those. (for me the watch is a keeper!) The same will likely apply to the other models meaning when Kurono ship batches those that just bought to flip will be listed shortly thereafter....what we are seeing now on the Toki too.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> One could place the watch against one's wrist to do a colour check for example. The colour may not contrast well with certain skin tones. I agree with you though that those putting up their Toki for sales are most likely flippers.
> 
> When I get my Toki, I will likely be swapping out the strap as it looks a bit 'cheap' from pics. Or maybe the pics don't do it justice where the strap may actually be much better than it looks.


Agreed. I didn't like the strap on my Chrono 2 either and swapped it out. Much happier now.

That said, the Hiroshige straps feel like much better quality than the ones that come with the watch.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> what about the latest sold on watchcharts? I think the Toki prices will come down to under the 5500 that the Mori went for a month ago in the long term (as there are more) , but above the bullseye that went fro 3650 last week (as the color is more striking and this pink/salmon thing tends to generate value in micro brand release... ie. the baltic sector or even the recent Habring x (some watch site I forgot) that sold out like basically right away).
> 
> View attachment 15981776


I know for a fact that the Bullseye there did not sell for $3650, but sold for around $2700ish instead. A lot of these sold prices are misleading, since folks almost always settle for a lower price via PMs/DMs.


----------



## BigMoufPosy (Dec 24, 2016)

My low #43XX Toki shipped last night, along with my replacement Hiroshige box. Excited!


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

BigMoufPosy said:


> My low #43XX Toki shipped last night, along with my replacement Hiroshige box. Excited!


44xx over here. Feels like mine will ship in a few weeks at that pace.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

yellowfury said:


> 44xx over here. Feels like mine will ship in a few weeks at that pace.


46XX here, so I'll be waiting a while I think.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> 46XX here, so I'll be waiting a while I think.


Same here, looks like late July early August at this point.


----------



## fuzzylemon (Dec 4, 2016)

BigMoufPosy said:


> My low #43XX Toki shipped last night, along with my replacement Hiroshige box. Excited!


I'm in the 43XX too. No email yet. Should be very soon. Thanks for the update.

Pretty excited to see this dial in person.

How quick is shipping usually from Japan to NA nowadays for Kurono watches?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BigMoufPosy (Dec 24, 2016)

fuzzylemon said:


> I'm in the 43XX too. No email yet. Should be very soon. Thanks for the update.
> 
> Pretty excited to see this dial in person.
> 
> ...


My Mori took 3 days to reach me in NYC, and my Hiroshige box took 4. Both using DHL from their Singapore fulfillment center.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

BigMoufPosy said:


> My Mori took 3 days to reach me in NYC, and my Hiroshige box took 4. Both using DHL from their Singapore fulfillment center.


I just got my Chrono 2 and it took 3-4 days (depending on if you go by the date the label was created or the day it was picked up) to get to me in CT....and it even arrived yesterday even though DHL was supposedly closed for the 4th on the 5th.

@fuzzylemon Remember that you will likely have a customs duty fee due so be on the lookout for that and pay immediately to avoid customs clearance delaying things. I signed up for texts from DHL for all transactions so I got notified they wanted $ right away and paid within an hour.

@BigMoufPosy How much was your customs duty on the Mori?


----------



## BigMoufPosy (Dec 24, 2016)

christianj said:


> I just got my Chrono 2 and it took 3-4 days (depending on if you go by the date the label was created or the day it was picked up) to get to me in CT....and it even arrived yesterday even though DHL was supposedly closed for the 4th on the 5th.
> 
> @fuzzylemon Remember that you will likely have a customs duty fee due so be on the lookout for that and pay immediately to avoid customs clearance delaying things. I signed up for texts from DHL for all transactions so I got notified they wanted $ right away and paid within an hour.
> 
> @BigMoufPosy How much was your customs duty on the Mori?


Thus far, I've never been asked to pay a customs fee on anything from Kurono. Of all the watches I've bought internationally, the only customs fee I've had to pay was approximately $65 on a $1550 titanium G-Shock from Revolution Watches in Singapore.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

BigMoufPosy said:


> My low #43XX Toki shipped last night, along with my replacement Hiroshige box. Excited!


Same here. Low #43XX order number and it shipped last night. Looking forward to receiving it at the end of this week/beginning of next week!


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

BigMoufPosy said:


> Thus far, I've never been asked to pay a customs fee on anything from Kurono. Of all the watches I've bought internationally, the only customs fee I've had to pay was approximately $65 on a $1550 titanium G-Shock from Revolution Watches in Singapore.


My customs bill on Chrono 2 was $116. Guess depends on how lucky you get. Have your other items from Kurono been of a higher value than the Toki or over $2k?


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

BigMoufPosy said:


> Thus far, I've never been asked to pay a customs fee on anything from Kurono. Of all the watches I've bought internationally, the only customs fee I've had to pay was approximately $65 on a $1550 titanium G-Shock from Revolution Watches in Singapore.


Mine's currently stuck with customs and the message is: "The clearance process for this shipment is ongoing with additional details required for clearance."  They haven't asked me to pay as yet but I imagine that's coming in the next day or so.

Same thing happened with my Chrono 2 (that added 3 days to shipping time). It usually takes ~3 days for Kurono straps to get to me.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I know for a fact that the Bullseye there did not sell for $3650, but sold for around $2700ish instead. A lot of these sold prices are misleading, since folks almost always settle for a lower price via PMs/DMs.


true, wonder if someone with a subscription clicks the "sold price" button if they would actually see the real sold price or not. (my 7 day trial ended). Anyways I totally dont get the value of the bullseye one at all, wouldn't even pay 1K for it


----------



## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> true, wonder if someone with a subscription clicks the "sold price" button if they would actually see the real sold price or not. (my 7 day trial ended). Anyways I totally dont get the value of the bullseye one at all, wouldn't even pay 1K for it


It's definitely not an aesthetic design. The printed dial makes the entire watch look cheap. Probably why the "Chono" versions are still available on TicTac for MSRP and no-one is buying them.


----------



## Anizer (Feb 20, 2021)

Anyone else got hit with duties for importing their Toki? Mines coming into Canada and I got hit with a C$300 duty (including fees)…


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Nordlys said:


> It's definitely not an aesthetic design. The printed dial makes the entire watch look cheap. Probably why the "Chono" versions are still available on TicTac for MSRP and no-one is buying them.


You say "Chrono versions" of the bullseye like there are other versions out there. There aren't.
Last time I checked only the champagne tux version was available. The Reiwa models took over a year to sell out and both the chronographs are still available too.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

todoroki said:


> You say "Chrono versions" of the bullseye like there are other versions out there. There aren't.
> Last time I checked only the champagne tux version was available. The Reiwa models took over a year to sell out and both the chronographs are still available too.


I wonder if Kurono will ever buy back the unsold stock of the "Chrono" versions from TicTac to preserve the exclusivity of the "Kurono" brand. I know they're trying to scrub all mentions of the Chrono brand from social media, so it's odd that they allow all of these unsold units to persist on TicTac.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

golffoxtrot said:


> true, wonder if someone with a subscription clicks the "sold price" button if they would actually see the real sold price or not. (my 7 day trial ended). Anyways I totally dont get the value of the bullseye one at all, wouldn't even pay 1K for it


I'm not sure. I think a lot of that information gets lost in private messages leading up to a sale. Apart from updating your listing to "SOLD", none of these platforms require you to specify what you actually sold it at. But it would be nice to see that information in real time, since a lot of the market is based on "listed prices" and "sold prices listed online".

Also, as someone who owned the Bullseye - I loved the design because it reminded me of the Art Deco-esque design aesthetic that Hajime uses on a few of his Tsunami watches. And prior to the Chronograph 2, there wasn't another watch like it in that color palette.


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Looks like Alec Baldwin got his Toki too.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CQZnrM7DH4R/


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## soufiane (Jul 23, 2012)

I’m in love with this piece!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Nordlys said:


> It's definitely not an aesthetic design. The printed dial makes the entire watch look cheap. Probably why the "Chono" versions are still available on TicTac for MSRP and no-one is buying them.


Edit- meant to say I considered trying a forwarding service for the older jdm models


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Looks like Alec Baldwin got his Toki too.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CQZnrM7DH4R/


I DID NOT see this one coming...


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> I'm not sure. I think a lot of that information gets lost in private messages leading up to a sale. Apart from updating your listing to "SOLD", none of these platforms require you to specify what you actually sold it at. But it would be nice to see that information in real time, since a lot of the market is based on "listed prices" and "sold prices listed online".
> 
> Also, as someone who owned the Bullseye - I loved the design because it reminded me of the Art Deco-esque design aesthetic that Hajime uses on a few of his Tsunami watches. And prior to the Chronograph 2, there wasn't another watch like it in that color palette.


Yeah probably, but even so, there is still a cap on how low it will go .. like think its quite rare someone will sell at 50% of what they posted for example ... so somehow its still a good reference.

Respect that you like the bullseye, but from the listings i've seen, its the lowest posted price of them all, so I don't see many market dynamics that will change that


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Anizer said:


> Anyone else got hit with duties for importing their Toki? Mines coming into Canada and I got hit with a C$300 duty (including fees)&#8230;


ouch...although assuming that GST also included in that?


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## Panara (Oct 26, 2014)

"My precious..."


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Panara said:


> "My precious..."


Nice Baldwin! Congrats.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

First flipped one is already up on C24 for a little north of 7.


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## Sarosto (Aug 6, 2014)

Panara said:


> "My precious..."


Very nice, but I concur with others who said this strap doesn't do the watch justice.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Sarosto said:


> Very nice, but I concur with others who said this strap doesn't do the watch justice.


Agreed. The only kurono straps I have ever thought were half decent were the alligator one's that went with the Reiwa models.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Looks like Alec Baldwin got his Toki too.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CQZnrM7DH4R/


There had been mention that he had commented on IG about the watch at the time the release was announced. Guess being a celebrity helps getting one from the early batch!


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

todoroki said:


> Agreed. The only kurono straps I have ever thought were half decent were the alligator one's that went with the Reiwa models.


I agree with others about the strap not matching the watch. I can understand them going brown but why the white stitching? The dark brown/black on the Chrono 2 would have looked better on the Toki than the one with white stitching.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Kurono has only one strap for this model, it is the same as on Mori


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## Kvam (Jun 18, 2019)

Just got the word... Next Monday mine is supposed to arrive.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Kvam said:


> Just got the word... Next Monday mine is supposed to arrive.


Order number, please


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## Kvam (Jun 18, 2019)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Order number, please


#433X


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

Kvam said:


> #433X


Congrats! Still a long way from mine though, I am 46xx.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Congrats! Still a long way from mine though, I am 46xx.


Nope, mine is a long way #65xx haha


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Duty paid ($84 US). Supposed to arrive tomorrow!


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

Duty paid as well. $76.50 for me.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

I really don't get how duty is calculated. I know it is a hit and miss but isn't there a basic formula? Not a big difference between $84 and $77 reported so far on the Toki but I just paid $116 on a Chrono 2 which is twice as expensive...not that I am complaining based on the Toki numbers. I guess point of entry also might make a difference as to how they process these.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I will pay 20% VAT (about 350USD) in EU


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

svetoslav said:


> I will pay 20% VAT (about 350USD) in EU


I lived in Germany for years so I feel your pain. In the US the general rule of thumb seems to be that the first $800 in value is not taxed but only the amount above that but it really does seem to vary.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

christianj said:


> I really don't get how duty is calculated. I know it is a hit and miss but isn't there a basic formula? Not a big difference between $84 and $77 reported so far on the Toki but *I just paid $116 on a Chrono 2 which is twice as expensive*...not that I am complaining based on the Toki numbers. I guess point of entry also might make a difference as to how they process these.


There's slight variations depending on point of entry and ultimate destination, but the reason why you only paid $116 and we paid $80ish is because about $40 of that amount is DHLs "customs processing fees" (aka blatant money-grab), which is fairly consistent for all packages regardless of the cost of the item.

So for our watches, it was $40ish for the "customs processing fees" and $40ish for the actual duty

For your Chrono 2, it was $40ish for the "customs processing fees" and $80ish for the actual duty


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@Nordlys You are correct! Forgot I actually took a screenshot of the invoice. Here is how it broke down:

Merchandise Processing + Advance Payment = $44.23
Import Duties = $72.21


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

@christianj DHL is the absolute worst with regards to nickel-and-diming both senders and recipients. I avoid DHL at all costs, but unfortunately, DHL was the only shipping option that Kurono offered.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@Nordlys The nickel-and-diming might be true but I have found DHL to be significantly quicker and more reliable for international shipments that the other options.


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## bpanders (Nov 5, 2020)

christianj said:


> @Nordlys The nickel-and-diming might be true but I have found DHL to be significantly quicker and more reliable for international shipments that the other options.


Indeed, I have shipments from Japan roughly once each month and anything other than DHL makes me nervous as to when it will arrive. I was happy to see Kurono offered DHL. I'd rather pay a slight fee to have faster shipping.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

I prefer EMS (which Japan just reinitiated on June 1st after a one year hiatus due to COVID). Relatively fast, informative tracking, and no stupid fees. I've ordered dozens of shipments from Remambo (my preferred proxy for Yahoo JP Auctions) and never had any issues whatsoever with EMS.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

It's here. I like it a lot. The look changes a lot depending on the light. Going to swap out the strap a little later today.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Swapped the strap for a matte dark grey nubuck in the wrist shot.

View attachment 15986533


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## fuzzylemon (Dec 4, 2016)

moheel said:


> Swapped the strap for a matte dark grey nubuck in the wrist shot.
> 
> View attachment 15986533


Looks Great!

What's the build quality of the OEM strap on the Toki?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

fuzzylemon said:


> Looks Great!
> 
> What's the build quality of the OEM strap on the Toki?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's not bad but nothing to write home about either. The hiroshige straps are much higher quality (softer/ more supple leather).


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## Anizer (Feb 20, 2021)

svetoslav said:


> I will pay 20% VAT (about 350USD) in EU


DHL is savage when it comes to import duties.. every time they are used I have to pay so much. And their address always shows up in the weirdest format. They are my last choice as a courier when buying watches online&#8230;

Anyone else importing to Canada got hit with duties? Curious how much/if theres any consistency&#8230;


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

moheel said:


> View attachment 15986534


Watch looks great and I'm liking the dial color but that strap just doesn't do the watch justice. I don't understand how they can be so picky about dial QC and finishing but then they ship with that strap. ?‍♂ The sides/edge of the strap loop! ?‍♂ Note to self&#8230;..before end of year arrival of Toki&#8230;source a new strap.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

moheel said:


> Swapped the strap for a matte dark grey nubuck in the wrist shot.
> 
> View attachment 15986533
> View attachment 15986563


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

christianj said:


> Watch looks great and I'm liking the dial color but that strap just doesn't do the watch justice. I don't understand how they can be so picky about dial QC and finishing but then they ship with that strap. ?‍♂ The sides/edge of the strap loop! ?‍♂ Note to self&#8230;..before end of year arrival of Toki&#8230;source a new strap.


Agreed! Need to source a strap. I had the grey nubuck at home, and I like the look/feel, but another one I'm considering is this grey saffiano.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I find the strap very much in style with the watch. It is simple and does not draw attention to itself.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

One-Seventy said:


> First flipped one is already up on C24 for a little north of 7.


As of this morning there are now 6 Toki's for sale on C24 ranging from $4650 to 7250.



svetoslav said:


> I find the strap very much in style with the watch. It is simple and does not draw attention to itself.


Like all things, this is going to be subjective. If you like it that's really all that should matter on your watch.

I personally think (and this is based on pics so far and not on personal experience since I will need to wait a while longer to get mine) that that strap looks inexpensive. I also think the white stitching actually draws attention away from what should be the main focus of the watch....the beautiful dial. The grey saffiano strap @moheel posted just above looks really nice. A nice dark colored strap with stitching in the dial color would probably look incredible but sourcing a strap like that were the tone of the stitching matches the dial would be a cumbersome task.....unless you special order and even then it might not be a perfect match. In the end it will likely be a strap in a dark tone with no contrast stitching.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Using a strap with dial matching stitching is like wearing color matched socks and shirt


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

svetoslav said:


> Using a strap with dial matching stitching is like wearing color matched socks and shirt


You say that like it is a bad thing.  I guess you would go with the white socks look.  Like I said, to each his/her own. Good that we don't all like the same thing.

I was thinking something like this but of course less salmon and more Toki tone. (Image NOT mine and pulled of the internet)


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Here's another look with different lighting and a green-ish grey strap.


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## BigMoufPosy (Dec 24, 2016)

My Toki was set to arrive yesterday (less than 3 days of shipping!), but I missed the delivery by a matter of minutes  

Waiting for the redelivery today - hoping I can have the watch on wrist this weekend!


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## Silvek (Nov 22, 2018)

moheel said:


> Here's another look with different lighting and a green-ish grey strap.


Great minds think alike... I received mine and immediately swapped to a grey strap as well.

I'll post more detailed feedback when I get a bit more time but, in short, I am very happy with the purchase. The dial is absolutely magical, and not easy to capture in photos. It's neither pink, nor salmon, and carries purplish undertones in some lighting. It's spectacular.


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## Silvek (Nov 22, 2018)

The cloth wrap that the box is wrapped in is pretty neat as well, with a suitably on-point motif.










On a less positive note, I could hear the rotor noise from the Miyota before I even opened the box.


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## BigMoufPosy (Dec 24, 2016)

Excuse my crappy picture...but here it is! Next to my Mori and the replacement Hiroshige box. I put a dark blue croc strap from my Shellman watch on it. I think it looks great!


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

Silvek said:


> The cloth wrap that the box is wrapped in is pretty neat as well, with a suitably on-point motif.
> 
> View attachment 15988769
> 
> ...


Ive had APs with loud af rotors...


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> Using a strap with dial matching stitching is like wearing color matched socks and shirt


yeah I agree, while in some rare cases this can work, I generally don't think it works. like even the latest ming 17.09 blue I didn't get it cuz that strap has the blue stitching on it...


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## BigMoufPosy (Dec 24, 2016)

Kurono really makes some of the best looking dials out there.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

BigMoufPosy said:


> Kurono really makes some of the best looking dials out there.


Amazing capture!


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

Mine arrived yesterday, but I decided to wait until the morning to open it. Love everything about it so far. It's the perfect size for my wrist, and the dial finishing is entirely next level.























Sent from my motorola one zoom using Tapatalk


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

BigMoufPosy said:


> My Toki was set to arrive yesterday (less than 3 days of shipping!), but I missed the delivery by a matter of minutes
> 
> Waiting for the redelivery today - hoping I can have the watch on wrist this weekend!





BigMoufPosy said:


> Kurono really makes some of the best looking dials out there.


that is an incredible shot!


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Nordlys said:


> Mine arrived yesterday, but I decided to wait until the morning to open it. Love everything about it so far. It's the perfect size for my wrist, and the dial finishing is entirely next level.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lovely pictures and I love the strap swap.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

moheel said:


> Lovely pictures and I love the strap swap.


Thanks! I ordered this strap immediately after placing the order for the Toki. I knew that navy blue would pair perfectly with the dial color.

It's the Matte Navy Blue Alligator strap from Veblenist.

As others have already said, the OEM strap is entirely underwhelming. Looks and feels like a $10-15 strap that a $200 microbrand watch would ship with. It would be nice if Kurono would step up their OEM strap game, but it's honestly not a big deal to swap the strap upon receipt.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I know it is a personal taste, but I really think the strap for this watch should be black, no croc and maybe no stitching at all.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

svetoslav said:


> I know it is a personal taste, but I really think the strap for this watch should be black, no croc and maybe no stitching at all.


I gave that a try. It looks better in person than in the picture but I still don't think it's my favorite option. That said, like you mentioned, it's personal taste 🙂


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

moheel said:


> I gave that a try. It looks better in person than in the picture but I still don't think it's my favorite option. That said, like you mentioned, it's personal taste 🙂


Agreed. Straight black is a little too stark and severe for this dial. I also held up a flat black strap with monotone black stitching to the watch. It was certainly better than the black with white stitching combo of the OEM strap, but still not my favorite

I think grey or deep navy/midnight blue work best, but horses for courses.

But honestly, what in the heck were they thinking paring this watch with the black/white OEM strap? It doesn't complement the watch at all. Looks terrible. I'm assuming that's why most of the wrist shots that have been popping up so far feature aftermarket straps.


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## pIonEerOFtHeNiLe (Jul 12, 2013)

it's quite a amazing the traction this brand has gotten. 

to have several thousands of people all over the world lining up and willing to pay close to $2500 usd for a 37mm miyota dress watch is quite remarkable.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

pIonEerOFtHeNiLe said:


> it's quite a amazing the traction this brand has gotten.
> 
> to have several thousands of people all over the world lining up and willing to pay close to $2500 usd for a 37mm miyota dress watch is quite remarkable.


Not $2500. $1750. But point well taken. The dial is really what you're paying for here.

The case and movement? Both feel commensurate with the price. And that's not a knock against them. Both clearly reflect the mid-range price tag. But if it was this case and movement paired with a normal dial, I'd say this should be $700 at most.

But the dial, hands, and indices? Easily GS level. I've handled my fair share of both modern and vintage GS, and the Kurono dial finishing is right up there with the best of Japanese watchmaking.

So with these watches, you're clearly paying for a.) The Hajime Asaoka design language and b.) The dial finishing.

Are they worth $4-5k? Hell no. It's still a mass-produced case with a bog-standard Miyota 9-series movement. Anyone who is paying the absurd prices these are going for on the secondary market has more money than sense.

But are they worth $1750? IMO: Definitely.


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

pIonEerOFtHeNiLe said:


> it's quite a amazing the traction this brand has gotten.
> 
> to have several thousands of people all over the world lining up and willing to pay close to $2500 usd for a 37mm miyota dress watch is quite remarkable.


You can easily resell it for what you paid. It's like being offered a Nautilus, Royal Oak, or a Journe CB. The manufacturer is quite literally giving you money.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

WatchEater666 said:


> You can easily resell it for what you paid. It's like being offered a Nautilus, Royal Oak, or a Journe CB. The manufacturer is quite literally giving you money.


That's a poor analogy. It's no-where close to being offered a Nautilus at MSRP. And honestly, we have no clue whether or not this model is going to attract the absurd secondary market values of the prior limited releases, as there will be close to 3000 of these circulating on the market when all is said and done. Remember, just because some idiot lists the watch at $8k on chrono24 doesn't mean that anyone will actually buy it from him/her at that price. Even with the earlier 3-handers that were produced in much lower quantities, the actual prices they've been selling for on the secondary market are closer to $4k.

I'm sure you'll be able to get your money back with the Toki or even make $500 or so if you really wanted to flip it, but this is no-where close to being offered a Nautilus at MSRP.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Nordlys said:


> Not $2500. $1750. But point well taken. The dial is really what you're paying for here.
> 
> The case and movement? Both feel commensurate with the price. And that's not a knock against them. Both clearly reflect the mid-range price tag. But if it was this case and movement paired with a normal dial, I'd say this should be $700 at most.
> 
> ...


I agree. For the price, this is a stunning watch. I'm with you on the design, dial, hands, and indices. I'd even argue that the case is pretty good too. I'm far from being an expert, but I'm looking at it next to several other $4K-$6K watches I own, and it doesn't look _too _out of place. And the dial makes the watch look way more expensive than it is.

The movement is meh... but it gets the job done.

I would not pay what people are asking for on the secondary market.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Nordlys said:


> Mine arrived yesterday, but I decided to wait until the morning to open it. Love everything about it so far. It's the perfect size for my wrist, and the dial finishing is entirely next level.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For me this is the best strap combo I have seen so far!



svetoslav said:


> I know it is a personal taste, but I really think the strap for this watch should be black, no croc and maybe no stitching at all.


I thought you liked the OEM strap with white stitching yesterday?


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

moheel said:


> I agree. For the price, this is a stunning watch. I'm with you on the design, dial, hands, and indices. I'd even argue that the case is pretty good too. I'm far from being an expert, but I'm looking at it next to several other $4K-$6K watches I own, and it doesn't look _too _out of place. And the dial makes the watch look way more expensive than it is.


Don't get me wrong, I don't think the case is poorly finished. On the contrary, it's quite well done for what it is, and there's certainly watches at twice the price that have worse case finishing (*cough* IWCs in the $4-6k range *cough*). But there's a level of detail in even the entry-level GS cases that's absent here, and that's what I'm using (perhaps unfairly) as a comparison.

The box sapphire, on the other hand, is one of the nicest and best-executed crystals I've seen at any price range. It perfectly complements the watch design, and the inner-AR coating is quite good, as those pesky reflections that are commonly found with box sapphires are entirely absent here.










This was taken under direct indoor lighting, which is typically one of the worst light environments for producing reflections. Even under such harsh lighting, the dial is still completely visible with minimal reflections from the crystal:


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

Nordlys said:


> That's a poor analogy. It's no-where close to being offered a Nautilus at MSRP. And honestly, we have no clue whether or not this model is going to attract the absurd secondary market values of the prior limited releases, as there will be close to 3000 of these circulating on the market when all is said and done. Remember, just because some idiot lists the watch at $8k on chrono24 doesn't mean that anyone will actually buy it from him/her at that price. Even with the earlier 3-handers that were produced in much lower quantities, the actual prices they've been selling for on the secondary market are closer to $4k.
> 
> I'm sure you'll be able to get your money back with the Toki or even make $500 or so if you really wanted to flip it, but this is no-where close to being offered a Nautilus at MSRP.


Fundamentally the concept is similar.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Nordlys said:


> Mine arrived yesterday, but I decided to wait until the morning to open it. Love everything about it so far. It's the perfect size for my wrist, and the dial finishing is entirely next level.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


can you elabortate what you mean by dial finishing? like the markers or everything (text etc.) and what are you comparing to?


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

That veblenist alligator the best combo I've seen so far. I have a couple of veblenist straps and they are always good quality, but pricy.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> can you elabortate what you mean by dial finishing? like the markers or everything (text etc.) and what are you comparing to?


As I noted in my post near the top of this current page, I'm referring to the dial, hands and indices. And I'm drawing comparisons to entry-level, lower-tier GS, specifically the SBGW231. Seeing as this is a simple three-hand watch with a similar case profile, I think its the best reference to draw comparisons to. One of the guys in my local watch meetup has the SBGW231 and I've tried it on and handled it several times, so I can also directly compare the IRL appearance and finishing of the SBGW231 and Kurono.

As many have noted on forums before, you really need a 10x loupe and/or a high-quality macro lens to appreciate the finishing of Grand Seikos. Whereas most watch dials look good to the naked eye, you can easily spot imperfections as soon as you start taking macro photographs or using a 10x loupe on the dial. However, it is difficult or impossible to find such imperfections on GS dials. Every hand and indice is perfectly polished, and there's no imperfections in the dial paint or lacquer.

Looking at the Kurono dial under a loupe yesterday, I was struck by the complete absence of imperfections in the dial finishing. It's definitely on par with the SBGW231 finishing, which is quite impressive seeing as the SBGW231 is a $4,200 watch at MSRP.

However, the case finishing on the SBGW231, and entry level GS in general, is far superior to the Kurono's, And the 9S64 movement is on an entirely different level than the 9-series Miyota movements, so I won't even bother comparing them on that front.

So as I said above, what you're paying for with the Kurono is a.) The Hajime Asaoka design language and b.) The dial finishing.

At the $1750 price point there's going to be some compromises, so I'm perfectly fine with the (comparatively) lower quality case and movement if I can have this impeccably finished dial.

But would I pay $4k for this Kurono? Hell no. I can go out right now and purchase an SBGW231 for around $3.5-3.6k brand new after AD discounts. And with that money, I would not only get an impeccably-finished dial, but also an impeccably-finished case and movement to boot.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Nordlys said:


> Looking at the Kurono dial under a loupe yesterday, I was struck by the complete absence of imperfections in the dial finishing. It's definitely on par with the SBGW231 finishing, which is quite impressive seeing as the SBGW231 is a $4,200 watch at MSRP.


Glad to hear this, since that wasn't my experience with the Chrono Tokyo Bullseye and Chrono Tokyo Chronograph 1. I'm more excited to receive the Toki now!


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

singularityseven said:


> Glad to hear this, since that wasn't my experience with the Chrono Tokyo Bullseye and Chrono Tokyo Chronograph 1. I'm more excited to receive the Toki now!


yeah was gonna say, I've read a few reviews (perhaps yours?) saying that so far the finishing is actually so-so and i've never heard that the mori had such outstanding finishing...


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Well, so if I buy >$4k watches I should wear 10x loupes permanently


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## DevOpsGuy (Jan 16, 2017)

Secondary market pricing is a bit ridiculous


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> Well, so if I buy >$4k watches I should wear 10x loupes permanently


Pretty much. Because that's the only way you can differentiate the exterior appearance of a $5000 watch from a $500 watch these days.


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## Kvam (Jun 18, 2019)

Got mine today and it is very nice. I have tried about 50 different strap combos and I would agree that grey or midnight blue is the way to go. Just wish the lugs were a mm or so longer as it definitely limits the strap edging that will work without scraping.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Kvam said:


> Got mine today and it is very nice. I have tried about 50 different strap combos and I would agree that grey or midnight blue is the way to go. Just wish the lugs were a mm or so longer as it definitely limits the strap edging that will work without scraping.


Use curved spring bars? Or bend your own.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

I actually think the zaratsu finishing on the case is very good and certainly suits this type of case. GS cases are substantially thicker (and more angular) so that does allow them more to work with in terms of contrasting different finishiing styles on the lugs and sides.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Yep, such comparisons are oranges to apples.


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

The most fair Toki being sold Reddit watchexchange. Not for flipping.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> The most fair Toki being sold Reddit watchexchange. Not for flipping.


Fair play!


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## Kvam (Jun 18, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> Use curved spring bars? Or bend your own.


Currently on a thinner strap that still fits. But I will try the curved as see how much more that gives me.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> The most fair Toki being sold Reddit watchexchange. Not for flipping.


I wonder if Kurono would still consider this "flipping" even though it was sold at cost by the seller.


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Kvam said:


> Currently on a thinner strap that still fits. But I will try the curved as see how much more that gives me.


In case you want to bend a set of straight bars, place them between two teaspoons and press down hard. If they are quick release be mindful of the orientation you need.

Did this with a Zelos I once had and worked perfectly.


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

jmariorebelo said:


> Fair play!


And sold in less than 2 hours. New buyer either going to wear it or flip it at a higher price.



christianj said:


> I wonder if Kurono would still consider this "flipping" even though it was sold at cost by the seller.


True. But whoever buys it might flip it at a higher price and there's no way to blacklist that person.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> True. But whoever buys it might flip it at a higher price and there's no way to blacklist that person.


True but Kurono could blacklist the original buyer (the person that just sold it) even though he didn't make a profit and thus says he didn't "flip" it. Depends on what they consider flipping and how strict they are going to enforce what they said.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

Nordlys said:


> Don't get me wrong, I don't think the case is poorly finished. On the contrary, it's quite well done for what it is, and there's certainly watches at twice the price that have worse case finishing (*cough* IWCs in the $4-6k range *cough*). But there's a level of detail in even the entry-level GS cases that's absent here, and that's what I'm using (perhaps unfairly) as a comparison.
> 
> The box sapphire, on the other hand, is one of the nicest and best-executed crystals I've seen at any price range. It perfectly complements the watch design, and the inner-AR coating is quite good, as those pesky reflections that are commonly found with box sapphires are entirely absent here.
> 
> ...


You decided to sell it? What was the dealbreaker for you?


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

brianinCA said:


> You decided to sell it? What was the dealbreaker for you?


Yep. That was my listing on reddit. The color just looked off with my skin tone. I have super pink (bordering on red) skin due to Native American blood on my Dad's side and German on my mom's side (I'm slightly pale from the German but still have very pink skin). On my skin, the Toki dial literally disappeared on my wrist, which looks quite strange. Even my wife, who is usually kind about such things, said "That looks weird on you." I think it would look best on people with warm/yellow skin undertones, aka, olive/tan skin. There would be a nice contrast against such skintones.



christianj said:


> True but Kurono could blacklist the original buyer (the person that just sold it) even though he didn't make a profit and thus says he didn't "flip" it. Depends on what they consider flipping and how strict they are going to enforce what they said.


Let's be honest: Kurono doesn't give a rats behind who sells these. It's in their best interest for the secondary market prices to remain at or above MSRP, as without the secondary market hype, this watch is just a basic three-hander with a Miyota movement. Without the aura of desirability and artificial scarcity, these watches would be nothing.

If Kurono wants to blacklist me for selling the watch for what I had into it, then by all means: Let them. If they have an account on here or on Reddit, then I would encourage them to contact me so I can give them my info. I'm sure that would make it easier for them to "blacklist" me, whatever that actually means.

It's a nice watch, and if the dial color had suited my skin tone (I think it would look best on me in green or blue), then I probably would have kept it. If they ever do another watch in a color more suited to me, then I might even consider purchasing one. But honestly, these watches are nothing to write home about. There's plenty of other nice designs with better movements at this price point, so I won't be gutted if they ever decide to "blacklist" me.

I despise flippers more than just about anyone, which is why I listed it at my costs. Hopefully my listing will set a precedent for this release.


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## Kvam (Jun 18, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> In case you want to bend a set of straight bars, place them between two teaspoons and press down hard. If they are quick release be mindful of the orientation you need.
> 
> Did this with a Zelos I once had and worked perfectly.


I will give it a try. Thanks.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Nordlys said:


> It's a nice watch, and if the dial color had suited my skin tone (I think it would look best on me in green or blue), then I probably would have kept it. If they ever do another watch in a color more suited to me, then I might even consider purchasing one. But honestly, these watches are nothing to write home about. There's plenty of other nice designs with better movements at this price point, so I won't be gutted if they ever decide to "blacklist" me.
> 
> I despise flippers more than just about anyone, which is why I listed it at my costs. Hopefully my listing will set a precedent for this release.


Hmm, well I have to say that I definitely hope it doesn't set any precedent  While i'm not planning on a flip, I still want the value high and letting it go at your cost also means you just left 2K USD on the table. Its good if you can afford that financially, but I know I couldn't


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> Hmm, well I have to say that I definitely hope it doesn't set any precedent  While i'm not planning on a flip, I still want the value high and letting it go at your cost also means you just left 2K USD on the table. Its good if you can afford that financially, but I know I couldn't


You... can't afford to buy a watch and sell it for the same price, effectively leaving you in the same exact financial state you were in before you bought it?


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> You... can't afford to buy a watch and sell it for the same price, effectively leaving you in the same exact financial state you were in before you bought it?


Strange how some individual's versions of logic work, isn't it? 😂


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

If you buy a house for 300k and now it is worth 600k would you sell it for 300k, you would not loose anything, strange logic for me really


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> You... can't afford to buy a watch and sell it for the same price, effectively leaving you in the same exact financial state you were in before you bought it?


I guess its a bit about how you view afforability. Yes, I can do what you said above but when you make financial plans, the expenditure is already a sunk cost. So the only question when you sell it is, do you have financial latitude to leave behind 2K that is effectively yours.

And in my financial plan, when I want to retire early and be financially independent, I don't.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> If you buy a house for 300k and now it is worth 600k would you sell it for 300k, you would not loose anything, strange logic for me really


to be honest, I find your logic very strange. Many property markets all over the world have seen 300k houses go to 600k. And you sell for 300k in such a market, you are most definitely losing 300k that is yours (judged at market value).

And the majority would agree, as you don't see very many people selling houses at the amount they originally paid, but instead at the market value.


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> I guess its a bit about how you view afforability. Yes, I can do what you said above but when you make financial plans, the expenditure is already a sunk cost. So the only question when you sell it is, do you have financial latitude to leave behind 2K that is effectively yours.
> 
> And in my financial plan, when I want to retire early and be financially independent, I don't.


Let's be honest here: If you were really 100% dedicated to financial independence / FIRE, then you wouldn't be putting money into watches at all... because watches are not an investment. You'd be taking every dime and putting it into low-cost index funds with a mix of real estate for a bit of diversification.

I'm also on the FIRE path (at least, a semi-FIRE / retire by 50 sort of path), but watches are my one hobby that involves spending a bit of money. And they're just that: A hobby. Trying to chase and flip these hype-beast watches sucks all the fun our of this hobby, as trying to guess which of these hype-beast micros will actually hold their value over the long term is a futile endeavor. Therefore, to preserve my enjoyment of this hobby, I refuse to partake in such endeavors.

This watch was fairly easy to attain all things considered. I just showed up at the allotted time and placed the order. So did 3000 other individuals. I'm happy that I got the opportunity to try it for a few days and then recover my costs. And as an added bonus, I sold it to an individual that I know for a fact is not a hype-beast flipper (because I've bought from him before and have maintained a relationship with him) and I know he will actually enjoy the watch. So I effectively made someone's day and brought them happiness. That's really all you can hope to achieve in this world.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Nordlys said:


> Let's be honest here: If you were really 100% dedicated to financial independence / FIRE, then you wouldn't be putting money into watches at all... because watches are not an investment. You'd be taking every dime and putting it into low-cost index funds with a mix of real estate for a bit of diversification.
> 
> I'm also on the FIRE path (at least, a semi-FIRE / retire by 50 sort of path), but watches are my one hobby that involves spending a bit of money. And they're just that: A hobby. Trying to chase and flip these hype-beast watches sucks all the fun our of this hobby, as trying to guess which of these hype-beast micros will actually hold their value over the long term is a futile endeavor. Therefore, to preserve my enjoyment of this hobby, I refuse to partake in such endeavors.
> 
> This watch was fairly easy to attain all things considered. I just showed up at the allotted time and placed the order. So did 3000 other individuals. I'm happy that I got the opportunity to try it for a few days and then recover my costs. And as an added bonus, I sold it to an individual that I know for a fact is not a hype-beast flipper (because I've bought from him before and have maintained a relationship with him) and I know he will actually enjoy the watch. So I effectively made someone's day and brought them happiness. That's really all you can hope to achieve in this world.


Hi, I think its great that you've achieved your aims with the watch, and definitely no criticism from me for that.

I do have different views on the watch value game, I find that part of the fun, and also like that it acts as a natural challenge/inhibitor to what I buy. (I try to buy a design that I really like AND have value increase (or flat). If I got a chance to get a Rolex, I would 100% flip it, and that goes into a fund that allows me latitude to buy more of what I like, and overall my rule is that the watch portfolio must stay net positive). By staying net positive in all my hobbies (also play guitars), I think its a small % of the overall total portfolio that is totally compatible with the low-cost index + real estate strategy you mentioned, although i'm not a strict FIRE adherent.

So my initial reply was simply sharing my views, hoping there wont be more like you (because that will definitely drive the value down in the secondary market).

However, I do completely disagree with others chiming in the on "logic", because the watch at any time is worth what the market will bear. So to accept any less than that is definitely losing out on some amount (which I guess to be around 1-2K currently, but more power to you if you judge that you are able to do this.


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## ACK3 (Jun 11, 2021)

Any thoughts on pairing it with a dark brown strap?


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> I do have different views on the watch value game, I find that part of the fun, and also like that it acts as a natural challenge/inhibitor to what I buy. (I try to buy a design that I really like AND have value increase (or flat). If I got a chance to get a Rolex, I would 100% flip it, and that goes into a fund that allows me latitude to buy more of what I like, and overall my rule is that the watch portfolio must stay net positive).


In that case you may as well forget watches and buy houses. You buy what you like but must be net positive... That's not how it works. You're buying watches just because you can make money off them. What you like is to make money, so why not go to real estate or the stock market? That's what those are for.



> By staying net positive in all my hobbies (also play guitars), I think its a small % of the overall total portfolio that is totally compatible with the low-cost index + real estate strategy you mentioned, although i'm not a strict FIRE adherent.


Scratch what I said above, go directly to crypto.

You are approaching watches as commodities. Don't be surprised if you get zero sympathy.



> So my initial reply was simply sharing my views, hoping there wont be more like you (because that will definitely drive the value down in the secondary market).


How will you survive without making a profit from the work of others while adding no value whatsoever yourself???



> However, I do completely disagree with others chiming in the on "logic", because the watch at any time is worth what the market will bear.


It seems that this watch is worth MSRP+taxes, because that's how much it sold for on the market.



> So to accept any less than that is definitely losing out on some amount (which I guess to be around 1-2K currently, but more power to you if you judge that you are able to do this.


Seriously, stop buying watches. Let us enjoy the hobby and go make your money elsewhere. ffs....

I'm not usually like this but you really pushed my buttons man...


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

golffoxtrot said:


> overall my rule is that the watch portfolio must stay net positive


Said virtually no watch "collector" prior to the current bubble. Reality is (or was) that few models ever increased in value and most true collectors have lost money on buying and selling over the year. If I did a recap, I would have been down $ previous to the bubble and now would be up big $ IF I sold all my pieces for the perceived current market value. Something like my Patek 5167 would have lost me money previous to the bubble but now would bring in big gains. Add to that that only certain brands have even benefited from the bubble and others are still not in a good resale position today. Enjoy the ride if you can stay net positive but that is not why most of us collect and certainly not what we have in mind when we buy.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

christianj said:


> Said virtually no watch "collector" prior to the current bubble. Reality is (or was) that few models ever increased in value and most true collectors have lost money on buying and selling over the year. If I did a recap, I would have been down $ previous to the bubble and now would be up big $ IF I sold all my pieces for the perceived current market value. Something like my Patek 5167 would have lost me money previous to the bubble but now would bring in big gains. Add to that that only certain brands have even benefited from the bubble and others are still not in a good resale position today. Enjoy the ride if you can stay net positive but that is not why most of us collect.


I agree 100% (and it seems like a lot of others do too)! I buy watches to wear. I have never sold a watch after purchase (and this includes watches that have appreciated 2-3X during this bubble... Rolex, AP Royal Oak etc.). This is because 99.99% of the time, I buy only after trying the watch on several times and making sure I like it.

The Toki and Chronograph 2 are the only exceptions, and I fortunately like both of them. If I didn't like my Kuronos after receiving them, I'd have done what Nordlys did and sold at cost. It may not be the "smart" financial move here but flipping for profit would ruin the hobby for me.

But to each their own.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

ACK3 said:


> View attachment 15996081
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on pairing it with a dark brown strap?


My 2 cents: it's not bad but I think dark grey/ midnight blue still appear to be the best pairings I've seen so far.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> In that case you may as well forget watches and buy houses. You buy what you like but must be net positive... That's not how it works. You're buying watches just because you can make money off them. What you like is to make money, so why not go to real estate or the stock market? That's what those are for.
> 
> Scratch what I said above, go directly to crypto.
> 
> ...


Look you approach it the way you want, and i'll do the same. I dont' know why some people feel they have the right to tell others "how it works". Knowing I will not lose money on the kurono is definitely a reason for me getting one, however I also need to like the design. There's no crime in that.

I'm not using watches to make money as an income source (as I explained if you read my reply) , but if I can find a collection I like, while not losing money, why not do it that way? I enjoy it just fine like this.

And when it comes to pushing buttons, at least i'm just here saying look to each their own. VS you telling me somehow my way is against the rules and not to collect watches? totally ridiculous.

Thing about all the hobby collections people do, many of them, like sports cards or rare toys or action figures, coins, stamps, currency etc etc, they all can be cash positive hobbies if done right...and it doesn't mean people don't appreciate the item they are collecting either.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

moheel said:


> My 2 cents: it's not bad but I think dark grey/ midnight blue still appear to be the best pairings I've seen so far.


yeah agree on this, i will be going grey when i get mine


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

moheel said:


> I agree 100% (and it seems like a lot of others do too)! I buy watches to wear. I have never sold a watch after purchase (and this includes watches that have appreciated 2-3X during this bubble... Rolex, AP Royal Oak etc.). This is because 99.99% of the time, I buy only after trying the watch on several times and making sure I like it.
> 
> The Toki and Chronograph 2 are the only exceptions, and I fortunately like both of them. If I didn't like my Kuronos after receiving them, I'd have done what Nordlys did and sold at cost. It may not be the "smart" financial move here but flipping for profit would ruin the hobby for me.
> 
> But to each their own.


thanks for your polite and reasonable reply, while I disagree, I can totally understand you seeing it that way


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## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

christianj said:


> Said virtually no watch "collector" prior to the current bubble. Reality is (or was) that few models ever increased in value and most true collectors have lost money on buying and selling over the year. If I did a recap, I would have been down $ previous to the bubble and now would be up big $ IF I sold all my pieces for the perceived current market value. Something like my Patek 5167 would have lost me money previous to the bubble but now would bring in big gains. Add to that that only certain brands have even benefited from the bubble and others are still not in a good resale position today. Enjoy the ride if you can stay net positive but that is not why most of us collect and certainly not what we have in mind when we buy.


Perfectly stated. When the economy is doing well, as it is right now with all of this fake money floating around, people tend to search for places outside of the traditional investment options to sink their newfound money. People are always looking for the next get-rich-quick scheme, so it's only natural for them to seek out esoteric non-commodity options that appear to "boom" during bubble economies. Watches. Cars. Art... Blockchain art (which is apparently an "investment" now), etc. etc.

But with very few exceptions, these "quasi-investments" never survive the inevitable market contraction to follow. As soon as a bubble economy goes "pop," people run back to the traditional investment options -- bonds, stocks/shares in revenue-generating corporations, and land -- and the pseudo-investment material goods become essentially worthless.

A few of my vintage pieces are definitely worth more now in this current watch bubble than when I bought them. But I understand that this watch bubble will pop one day. And when it does, I'm fully-prepared for my watch collection to be (monetarily) worthless, perhaps even tomorrow. The worth of my watches is not why I collect. If the bubble popped tomorrow and my collection was worthless, I'd still love my watches. And if I did care about what they were worth, I would stop enjoying this hobby.

Don't get me wrong. I still try to buy intelligently. If I see that the secondary market values of a watch are currently much lower than new MSRP/grey market prices, then I'll wait for a good used example to pop up on the forums. Better to let someone else take the initial depreciation hit. But the amount of money I have tied up in watches is (relatively) so little that it's not going to hurt if the collection is worthless during the next recession.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

christianj said:


> Said virtually no watch "collector" prior to the current bubble. Reality is (or was) that few models ever increased in value and most true collectors have lost money on buying and selling over the year. If I did a recap, I would have been down $ previous to the bubble and now would be up big $ IF I sold all my pieces for the perceived current market value. Something like my Patek 5167 would have lost me money previous to the bubble but now would bring in big gains. Add to that that only certain brands have even benefited from the bubble and others are still not in a good resale position today. Enjoy the ride if you can stay net positive but that is not why most of us collect and certainly not what we have in mind when we buy.


I think there is a case of people seeing one comment they don't like and jumping on it. I wouldn't collect if I didn't like watches, so that's got to be there. We're not talking about flipping. But while collecting, why not do it in a way that I don't have to lose money? I'd rather have it this way that the lose money way.

Sometimes there is watch you really want and it will depreciate for sure, so then in this case, I might try to get it by selling a few pieces, then overall still net positive.

But i'm still building a collection I love, so don't know why that makes you somehow not a true collector in some arbitrary sense. As I pointed out to mr. rude on the other post that many collectables across many different categories also have this property of gaining value over time, whether it be rare coins, rare wine and whisky or video games (like that Super Mario that went for 1.5M at auction a few days ago) or whatever tickles your fancy, so I don't see the crime in this applying to watches


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## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

golffoxtrot said:


> Look you approach it the way you want, and i'll do the same. I dont' know why some people feel they have the right to tell others "how it works". Knowing I will not lose money on the kurono is definitely a reason for me getting one, however I also need to like the design. There's no crime in that.
> 
> I'm not using watches to make money as an income source (as I explained if you read my reply) , but if I can find a collection I like, while not losing money, why not do it that way? I enjoy it just fine like this.


Because if you liked it you wouldn't sell it. That's why this is not "how it works".



> And when it comes to pushing buttons, at least i'm just here saying look to each their own. VS you telling me somehow my way is against the rules and not to collect watches? totally ridiculous.


It's not against the rules, it's against the basic principles of hobbies as a whole: an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure. Keyword being pleasure, not profit. You can do whatever you want, but calling it a hobby is stretching it. And saying what you are saying in a forum dedicated to hobbyists will never go well.



> Thing about all the hobby collections people do, many of them, like sports cards or rare toys or action figures, coins, stamps, currency etc etc, they all can be cash positive hobbies if done right...and it doesn't mean people don't appreciate the item they are collecting either.


Exactly, many people here only buy used to reduce the likelihood of losing money. But that's many steps below buying specifically, and it seems only, to make a profit.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Nordlys said:


> value





Nordlys said:


> Perfectly stated. When the economy is doing well, as it is right now with all of this fake money floating around, people tend to search for places outside of the traditional investment options to sink their newfound money. People are always looking for the next get-rich-quick scheme, so it's only natural for them to seek out esoteric non-commodity options that appear to "boom" during bubble economies. Watches. Cars. Art... Blockchain art (which is apparently an "investment" now), etc. etc.
> 
> But with very few exceptions, these "quasi-investments" never survive the inevitable market contraction to follow. As soon as a bubble economy goes "pop," people run back to the traditional investment options -- bonds, stocks/shares in revenue-generating corporations, and land -- and the pseudo-investment material goods become essentially worthless.
> 
> ...


I actually agree with almost everything you wrote here. But I never said the value appreciation is the reason for collecting. I merely added it as a rule to challenge myself when I buy a watch that I already like in the first place.

So your example about if they suddenly all worth nothing, I would also still love them too. I think what i'm doing here is also buying intelligently but perhaps with a more aggressive strategy than you.


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Just got notified that my 44xx is shipping


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## Anizer (Feb 20, 2021)

ACK3 said:


> View attachment 15996081
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on pairing it with a dark brown strap?


I think the redness in the brown clashes with the pink hues of the dial, could be a personal preference tho

Anyone a dark grey or light grey (leather) strap to pair? Curious how it looks.


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Anizer said:


> Anyone a dark grey or light grey (leather) strap to pair? Curious how it looks.


I actually just purchased a custom light grey leather strap based on one of the Instagram pics I saw with the Toki (Not with leather though). I'll share the pics in 2 months best case scenario lol.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

jmariorebelo said:


> Because if you liked it you wouldn't sell it. That's why this is not "how it works".
> 
> It's not against the rules, it's against the basic principles of hobbies as a whole: an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure. Keyword being pleasure, not profit. You can do whatever you want, but calling it a hobby is stretching it. And saying what you are saying in a forum dedicated to hobbyists will never go well.
> 
> Exactly, many people here only buy used to reduce the likelihood of losing money. But that's many steps below buying specifically, and it seems only, to make a profit.


People's taste changes and they sell and at that time, its good to sell for more than you paid vs taking a loss.. I fail see why you need to have such a narrow definition of "how it works".

As for "not going well", I just view it as some people more closed minded than others. Its still very much a hobby for me regardless of what you might think.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Anizer said:


> I think the redness in the brown clashes with the pink hues of the dial, could be a personal preference tho
> 
> Anyone a dark grey or light grey (leather) strap to pair? Curious how it looks.


Even before a few people tried this combo, Montblanc was doing grey leather with salmon on their heritage 3-hander and also GMT salmon version and it works great..


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## David76 (Dec 24, 2015)

How about this strap combination on the toki dial?
This is Bulang and sons vintage strap


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

yellowfury said:


> Just got notified that my 44xx is shipping


Congrats! Kind of suprised that the 4400's had NOT already shipped since the early orders were in the 4300's and those went out over a week ago. If they only get 100 or so out a week then this is going to be a long process....especially since one would think that they had time to preproduce leading up to the sale and during the timeframe thereafter which would allow them to ship larger numbers in the beginning.



gyrotourbillon007 said:


> I actually just purchased a custom light grey leather strap based on one of the Instagram pics I saw with the Toki (Not with leather though). I'll share the pics in 2 months best case scenario lol.


When I saw that pic I thought the color was a good combination but I couldn't believe someone would pair a watch like the Toki with that braided strap. Sorry but all i could think was that someone was going on a tropical vacation but they wanted to take their favorite dress watch so they slapped a strap from their $200 Tommy Bahama watch on it.......now that color strap in leather might be a hit!


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> Just got notified that my 44xx is shipping


Still nothing for 45xx.


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

ACK3 said:


> View attachment 15996081
> 
> 
> Any thoughts on pairing it with a dark brown strap?


I agree with others who have said not bad. I think of all the straps I've seen on the toki so far light to medium greys seems to work best IMO.


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

WatchEater666 said:


> Still nothing for 45xx.


Based on this thread I'd expect yours to ship in a week or so


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Anizer said:


> I think the redness in the brown clashes with the pink hues of the dial, could be a personal preference tho
> 
> Anyone a dark grey or light grey (leather) strap to pair? Curious how it looks.


Here's mine on grey.


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

seokpyo said:


> How about this strap combination on the toki dial?
> This is Bulang and sons vintage strap
> View attachment 15997692


I like the idea but i'm 50/50 on the final result, guess it will depend alot on your personal style also.


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

christianj said:


> now that color strap in leather might be a hit!


that's what i am hoping for as well.

i supposed given that tokyo is in a state of emergency, shipment might get delayed a bit more.


----------



## Abcabcden (Jul 15, 2021)

Tried it on a light brown strap, grey strap and eventually settled on a brushed mesh


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Abcabcden said:


> View attachment 16000127
> 
> Tried it on a light brown strap, grey strap and eventually settled on a brushed mesh


That looks amazing!


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Abcabcden said:


> View attachment 16000127
> 
> Tried it on a light brown strap, grey strap and eventually settled on a brushed mesh


looks like this might be the winning combo for me


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

Six of them straight to the secondary now - average asking is about six grand, so around 3.5x list price. Nice work - free money for a good few "lottery winners"! They'll be gone by next week too.


----------



## helidoc (Feb 12, 2011)

One-Seventy said:


> Six of them straight to the secondary now - average asking is about six grand, so around 3.5x list price. Nice work - free money for a good few "lottery winners"! They'll be gone by next week too.


Except they will never sell at that price

D

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> Six of them straight to the secondary now - average asking is about six grand, so around 3.5x list price. Nice work - free money for a good few "lottery winners"! They'll be gone by next week too.


I don't think they're selling at that asking price. I've been following a lot of them. One of the eBay ones that was listed for $4,500 (USD) has been re-listed twice and the current asking bid is $3749. And it has zero bids with less than a day remaining. I don't think flippers are going to get the prices they thought they were going to get for it.


----------



## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

Abcabcden said:


> View attachment 16000127
> 
> Tried it on a light brown strap, grey strap and eventually settled on a brushed mesh


I think this is the best combo so far 👍


----------



## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

moheel said:


> I don't think they're selling at that asking price. I've been following a lot of them. One of the eBay ones that was listed for $4,500 (USD) has been re-listed twice and the current asking bid is $3749. And it has zero bids with less than a day remaining. *I don't think flippers are going to get the prices they thought they were going to get for it.*


Any flipper that thought thy would get 3X list for this is a serious dreamer.

It's going to be darn-near impossible for these to go for the same prices that the Mori went for. There were literally 10X as many of Tokis sold as there were of the Mori. I mean, a "Limited Edition" of 3000 just seems downright silly. 3000 is hardly "Limited," which is why Kurono never claimed that these were limited in the first place.

Additionally, this color is going to be an acquired taste. I mean... it is pink. Like, reallllyyyy pink. I know Salmon dials were all the rage a few years ago, but most of the highly desirable Salmon dials leaned more towards the copper end of the spectrum. This... Is pink. There's certainly going to be fans of pink watches out there, and I honestly liked the color (just not on my skin tone). But the number of individuals that want to wear a pink mechanical watch is likely a smaller pool than those that want to wear a vibrant emerald green.

Let's see how supply and demand plays out here, but when all is said and done, I see these trading for slightly over MSRP.


----------



## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I have several watches on meshes, but not this one, and I also think black is the way to go, simple and austere.


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Nordlys said:


> I mean, a "Limited Edition" of 3000 just seems downright silly


Omega doesn't think it's silly.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Nordlys said:


> Let's see how supply and demand plays out here, but when all is said and done, I see these trading for slightly over MSRP.


Agree! This is what several of us said all along In earlier posts.


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Omega doesn't think it's silly.


Haha. I was just about to say that.

That said, I do find them calling those exclusive a bit silly.

As an owner of several Omegas (including a limited edition), I'm under no illusion that my watch is exclusive by any means. But I like wearing them and that's what matters to me.


----------



## Nordlys (Jan 9, 2019)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Omega doesn't think it's silly.


Neither does Seiko. 😂

Pretty much every Seiko these days is a "LIMITED EDITION 1 OF 5500," so I guess the term has completely lost its meaning to Japanese watchmakers.


----------



## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

This IMO, is the winner. Where did you get the mesh bracelet?



Abcabcden said:


> View attachment 16000127
> 
> Tried it on a light brown strap, grey strap and eventually settled on a brushed mesh


----------



## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

moheel said:


> I don't think they're selling at that asking price. I've been following a lot of them. One of the eBay ones that was listed for $4,500 (USD) has been re-listed twice and the current asking bid is $3749. And it has zero bids with less than a day remaining. I don't think flippers are going to get the prices they thought they were going to get for it.


Cool keep the thread updated on what you find


----------



## Abcabcden (Jul 15, 2021)

WatchEater666 said:


> This IMO, is the winner. Where did you get the mesh bracelet?


Got it off Strapcode, pretty affordable too


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Granted we don't have a dedicated KT thread, ill post this one here. Kurono Tokyo just released the new collector's book for online viewing. All contributors gets a free copy and public sale available soon.

Kurono Collector Book 2021

Next year's book will be full of Toki lol.


----------



## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

High 43xx order # here, just paid the customs fees ($76.52) and should have it Monday via DHL. Based on everything I'm reading and seeing here it seems like I need to get busy finding a new strap for it.


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Hmmm my watch is stuck in customs and they didn’t think to send me an email about it until the weekend. Can’t contact their customer support until the weekday lol.


----------



## horgo99 (Jun 11, 2018)

Abcabcden said:


> View attachment 16000127
> 
> Tried it on a light brown strap, grey strap and eventually settled on a brushed mesh


This is brilliant, and exactly the strap/band I was going to go for on mine! Hope you enjoy it!


----------



## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

DMcMaine said:


> High 43xx order # here, just paid the customs fees ($76.52) and should have it Monday via DHL. Based on everything I'm reading and seeing here it seems like I need to get busy finding a new strap for it.


Well, how about that? DHL delivered it a few minutes ago. Disappointed that the inside Kurono box was opened by Customs, but I suppose that's unavoidable. I hope they took an unboxing video for me


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

DMcMaine said:


> Well, how about that? DHL delivered it a few minutes ago. Disappointed that the inside Kurono box was opened by Customs, but I suppose that's unavoidable. I hope they took an unboxing video for me


Congratulations! Do post pictures of whatever strap/bracelet it ends up on.


----------



## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

moheel said:


> Congratulations! Do post pictures of whatever strap/bracelet it ends up on.


Will do, though I'm not as disappointed by the strap it comes with as it seems I'm supposed to be.


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Another day (week), another dollar. Hopefully, we can see some more shipment news coming out


----------



## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

Order 48***.... Any hope of getting it in 2021?


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Abcabcden said:


> Got it off Strapcode, pretty affordable too


time to go shopping


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Order 48***.... Any hope of getting it in 2021?


I would guess October-November for 48xx.


----------



## Silvek (Nov 22, 2018)

Boredom can lead to bad decisions...


----------



## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Silvek said:


> Boredom can lead to bad decisions...
> 
> View attachment 16011382


It was only a matter of time..


----------



## jcf (Aug 21, 2013)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I would guess October-November for 48xx.


Have the deliveries started slipping from what was originally communicated?


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

jcf said:


> Have the deliveries started slipping from what was originally communicated?


I am just estimating it by the current pace. It seems right now they are doing less than 100 pieces a week


----------



## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I am just estimating it by the current pace. It seems right now they are doing less than 100 pieces a week


Is the order number sequential, I know some ordering systems are random too


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Another Toki sold in less than 45 minutes via Reddit watch exchange. Can't see the comment to see if it was sold at msrp, but title says not a flipper.


----------



## bpanders (Nov 5, 2020)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Another Toki sold in less than 45 minutes via Reddit watch exchange. Can't see the comment to see if it was sold at msrp, but title says not a flipper.


Maybe $2222?


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

reluctantsnowman said:


> Is the order number sequential, I know some ordering systems are random too


In this case it is, they are using Shopify

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Another Toki sold in less than 45 minutes via Reddit watch exchange. Can't see the comment to see if it was sold at msrp, but title says not a flipper.


The lowest I see listed online currently is on ebay for $2,750:








Kurono Tokyo Toki Anniversary Watch…UNWORN…W/ BOX AND PAPERS  | eBay


<body><p>Kurono Tokyo Toki Anniversary Watch…UNWORN…W/ BOX AND PAPERS. </p><br /><p>Brand new with tags. Very hard to find. Crafted for Kurono’s second anniversary.</p><br /><p>Will be shipped overnight with insured shipping.</p></body>



www.ebay.com


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

bpanders said:


> Maybe $2222?


Yup - the comments just started re-appearing.



brianinCA said:


> The lowest I see listed online currently is on ebay for $2,750:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think if people are patient, they can buy one for just slightly above msrp lol.


----------



## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

I received a reply to an email to Kurono today asking about delivery updates. I’m 44xx. Told shipping for my batch is June - august. With potential delays do to Covid in Japan. This may make delivery way slower than anticipated 


“Facts don’t change opinions, influencers do”


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Whelp paid my 76 bucks so let’s hope the watch gets released from customs prison intact


----------



## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

thewatchidiot said:


> I received a reply to an email to Kurono today asking about delivery updates. I'm 44xx. Told shipping for my batch is June - august. With potential delays do to Covid in Japan. This may make delivery way slower than anticipated
> 
> "Facts don't change opinions, influencers do"


I think that's what the email a bit ago said too.


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Another Toki sold in less than 45 minutes via Reddit watch exchange. Can't see the comment to see if it was sold at msrp, but title says not a flipper.


More "not a flipper"s! Of course not. They were all just "not bonding".


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

One-Seventy said:


> More "not a flipper"s! Of course not. They were all just "not bonding".


I mean the person sold the watch at cost (including tax). And explicitly called out that they were doing that intentionally.

I'd believe them.

Incidentally, anyone see this? Not a fan of the strap but to each their own.









Why I Bought it: an owners review of the Kurono Toki Anniversary Watch


While the Kurono Toki leverages a familiar layout, its vibrant coral shade was exactly what I was looking to add to my collection.




timeandtidewatches.com


----------



## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

moheel said:


> I mean the person sold the watch at cost (including tax). And explicitly called out that they were doing that intentionally.
> 
> I'd believe them.
> 
> ...


Was just thinking that what the article says most is that the hunt is still on for a complimentary strap. Seems a conundrum.


----------



## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

I am thinking of trying one or both the blue and green alligator straps in the pics below on my Toki. Think the green one will be a good match. Not so sure about the blue one.


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Raindrops said:


> I am thinking of trying one or both the blue and green alligator straps in the pics below on my Toki. Think the green one will be a good match. Not so sure about the blue one.
> View attachment 16014149
> View attachment 16014151


Agree. I like the green. I think the blue might clash.


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

I am entertaining the idea of ordering an Olive Shell Cordovan to pair with the Toki, for some reason I think it might be great combination


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## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

moheel said:


> Congratulations! Do post pictures of whatever strap/bracelet it ends up on.


After working with Ken at Delugs I ordered these two straps and should have them shortly:








Natural Shell Cordovan Slim Strap


Delugs Leather Watch Straps made from Shell Cordovan leather from Shinki Hikaku tannery in Japan, not Horween. Pair it with Omega, Rolex, IWC, JLC, Apple Watch, Galaxy




delugs.com












Matte Mahogany Brown Alligator Signature Strap


Alligator strap in Signature style from Delugs. Handcrafted from start to finish. Get yours today, and give your watch the strap it deserves.




delugs.com


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## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Ladies and gentlemen- the eagle has landed. The packaging is quite nice and it definitely makes me want to buy another in the future just based on attention to all the little details alone.










here it is on my 8.5" wrist. I'm at the max the strap will take (but I knew that going in)










the dial is more pink than the sbga413. It is less pink than expected. I will now need to buy that mesh bracelet from earlier in the thread (or maybe a longer black strap).


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

@yellowfury thanks for the pics. I think it works on your wrist very well. I have been pretty paranoid that it will look small on my wrist, but if it looks that good on yours, I should be good too!


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

WatchEater666 said:


> @yellowfury thanks for the pics. I think it works on your wrist very well. I have been pretty paranoid that it will look small on my wrist, but if it looks that good on yours, I should be good too!


i think the way it wears on my wrist is reminiscent of when men wore smaller watches. In other words, at least on me, the watch does it's job of calling back to more vintage dress watch styling.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

DMcMaine said:


> After working with Ken at Delugs I ordered these two straps and should have them shortly:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a bespoke matte mahogany alligator with navy blue stitches from Delugs, and it's absolutely gorgeous! The color is just the perfect balance between brown and red.


----------



## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I have a bespoke matte mahogany alligator with navy blue stitches from Delugs, and it's absolutely gorgeous! The color is just the perfect balance between brown and red.


Sounds like a really nice configuration, though I ordered the stock items and I'm optimistic that it will also be a great choice. I suspect that this might lead to me heading down the bespoke route with them, too. Ken's customer service was outstanding.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

DMcMaine said:


> Sounds like a really nice configuration, though I ordered the stock items and I'm optimistic that it will also be a great choice. I suspect that this might lead to me heading down the bespoke route with them, too. Ken's customer service was outstanding.


I went for bespoke mainly for the folded edges (remborde). Works so well on alligator and cordovan!


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## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I went for bespoke mainly for the folded edges (remborde). Works so well on alligator and cordovan!


Oh, man, I have no idea what that means but if I spend any more time on his site this week he'll have to file a restraining order. Might risk it anyway because now I'm _really_ curious.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

DMcMaine said:


> Oh, man, I have no idea what that means but if I spend any more time on his site this week he'll have to file a restraining order. Might risk it anyway because now I'm _really_ curious.


Its when the upper leather is "tucked" and glued to the lining leather. So instead of the painted edges on the sides of the strap you have the upper leather covering those parts.


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Though not new news, I think this new listing via Reddit Watch Exchange confirms that the "7mm incl sapphire" thickness is incorrect as the person measured it to be 10.8mm.

Feels bad for that huge scratch at the back. Looks like his spring bar tool slipped.

Edit - That was quick again. Sold within an hour for $2200.


----------



## Anizer (Feb 20, 2021)

DMcMaine said:


> After working with Ken at Delugs I ordered these two straps and should have them shortly:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are some leather straps manufacturers on Etsy that give a good discount and also do custom orders and you can get all the same features/selections if you find the right shops.

I just ordered a croc and epsom strap (both customized) from EdelLeather (manufacturer) on Etsy (2) for the price of 1 strap from online retailers.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Anizer said:


> There are some leather straps manufacturers on Etsy that give a good discount relative to the pricing of middle-men retailers like Delugs/Monstraps


Middle men? Who do you think makes delugs straps?


----------



## Anizer (Feb 20, 2021)

jmariorebelo said:


> Middle men? Who do you think makes delugs straps?


Their manufacturing/production partner? Though I mean to use the term "manufacturer" in a lighter sense as the people/group who make the straps by hand (not in a mass manufacturing sense&#8230


----------



## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

Anizer said:


> There are some leather straps manufacturers on Etsy that give a good discount and also do custom orders and you can get all the same features/selections if you find the right shops.
> 
> I just ordered a croc and epsom strap (both customized) from EdelLeather (manufacturer) on Etsy (2) for the price of 1 strap from online retailers.


I know what you mean. I have a great relationship with the awesome crew at Ashland Leather and they've done some beautiful work for me. Delugs says on their About Us page that they no longer make the products they're selling and I'm fine with that. Mostly what I wanted was Ken's expertise in pairing watches and straps and I was happy to pay what might be perceived as a premium for that opinion. He was great and freely provided that info which I could easily used to make the purchase elsewhere.


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

Anizer said:


> Their manufacturing/production partner? Though I mean to use the term "manufacturer" in a lighter sense as the people/group who make the straps by hand (not in a mass manufacturing sense&#8230


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't their strap makers their&#8230;employees? I don't think the owner of delugs has ever claimed that he hand makes every strap personally. It's strange to call an employer a middleman.


----------



## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

yellowfury said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't their strap makers their&#8230;employees? I don't think the owner of delugs has ever claimed that he hand makes every strap personally. It's strange to call an employer a middleman.


Not to speak for Anizer, but I read it more along the lines of them being independent artists that they contract work out to. But I might have misread it, not sure:








The Delugs Story


The Delugs Story Our Brand Values Our Journey Our Brand Values As Delugs develops and matures as a brand with a large number of customers and fans worldwide, it is important for us to look beyond our core business of just providing products, and think about what the brand stands for, our purpose...




delugs.com


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

DMcMaine said:


> Not to speak for Anizer, but I read it more along the lines of them being independent artists that they contract work out to. But I might have misread it, not sure:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


contractors are definitely different than full time employees, but if we're splitting hairs I still wouldn't say that's a middleman situation. The straps are produced for delugs who then sells them. It's like saying apple is a middleman between the factory that makes their phones and the consumers who buy their phones. ADs are closer to middlemen in the sense that they buy the completed product and sell it to an end user but that product was built irrespective of whether or not the specific AD had ordered them.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

yellowfury said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't their strap makers their&#8230;employees? I don't think the owner of delugs has ever claimed that he hand makes every strap personally. It's strange to call an employer a middleman.


That was my belief as well but apparently not anymore. Thanks to the other posters for setting the record straight.


----------



## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

yellowfury said:


> contractors are definitely different than full time employees, but if we're splitting hairs I still wouldn't say that's a middleman situation. The straps are produced for delugs who then sells them. It's like saying apple is a middleman between the factory that makes their phones and the consumers who buy their phones. ADs are closer to middlemen in the sense that they buy the completed product and sell it to an end user but that product was built irrespective of whether or not the specific AD had ordered them.


Indeed, as there's almost always a way to pay a bit (or a lot) less for something when you know a bit more than most people how it all works. I've done both and have been happy with the outcome in both instances, both slightly counterintuitive:
I've paid a bit less to have Ashland custom make beautiful straps for a few of my watches and paid a bit more for advice from Delugs so that I could more confidently order 2 of their in stock straps for my new Kurono.


----------



## yellowfury (Aug 28, 2019)

DMcMaine said:


> Indeed, as there's almost always a way to pay a bit (or a lot) less for something when you know a bit more than most people how it all works. I've done both and have been happy with the outcome in both instances, both slightly counterintuitive:
> I've paid a bit less to have Ashland custom make beautiful straps for a few of my watches and paid a bit more for advice from Delugs so that I could more confidently order 2 of their in stock straps for my new Kurono.


I have 2 on the way from delugs too, lol.


----------



## Anizer (Feb 20, 2021)

yellowfury said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't their strap makers their&#8230;employees? I don't think the owner of delugs has ever claimed that he hand makes every strap personally. It's strange to call an employer a middleman.


I realized I used the term wrong hence the edit, but they are the retailer and hence charge the markup for branding/service/marketing. I'm not sure that the craftsmen/women of these retailers are employees, but a business partner or customer of them, yeah most likely. If you find these stores on Etsy, many of them offer bulk purchase (and customizations of course). Adding branding would be part of that too. Many are from Vietnam/Indonesia which have big markets for leather production.

I was always so confused by the varying price differences for the same straps so I did a little digging&#8230; Not that I have anything against the online retailers but I rather purchase directly from the craftsman if possible. Just sharing my learnings so people know there are choices.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

Anizer said:


> I realized I used the term wrong hence the edit, but they are the retailer and hence charge the markup for branding/service/marketing. I'm not sure that the craftsmen/women of these retailers are employees, but a business partner or customer of them, yeah most likely. If you find these stores on Etsy, many of them offer bulk purchase (and customizations of course). Adding branding would be part of that too. Many are from Vietnam/Indonesia which have big markets for leather production.
> 
> I was always so confused by the varying price differences for the same straps so I did a little digging&#8230; Not that I have anything against the online retailers but I rather purchase directly from the craftsman if possible. Just sharing my learnings so people know there are choices.


Do you know if delugs use more than one partner/supplier? Because I checked EdelLeather and they don't have nearly the same variety.

Perhaps more likely that they (delugs) have exclusive designs and leather...


----------



## Anizer (Feb 20, 2021)

jmariorebelo said:


> Do you know if delugs use more than one partner/supplier? Because I checked EdelLeather and they don't have nearly the same variety.
> 
> Perhaps more likely that they (delugs) have exclusive designs and leather...


yeah I think they have different suppliers for different types of leathers.


----------



## hyperkin (Aug 27, 2012)

I can not wait for this piece to arrive. Two more month..


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

hyperkin said:


> I can not wait for this piece to arrive


I just paid the import tax for chrono2 and now I am scared when the Toki arrives lol.


----------



## hyperkin (Aug 27, 2012)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> I just paid the import tax for chrono2 and now I am scared when the Toki arrives lol.


I am concerned on the tax as well, this is my first Kurono. was it bad for the chrono 2?


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

hyperkin said:


> was it bad for the chrono 2?


I think for Australia yeah. Paid around AU$650


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> I think for Australia yeah. Paid around AU$650


No idea how much VAT is in AUS but considering our values (20%) that means the watch cost 3200AUS pre-tax? Sounds reasonable


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

hyperkin said:


> I am concerned on the tax as well, this is my first Kurono. was it bad for the chrono 2?


I paid $116 for the Chrono 2 (importing to the US) and $84 for the Toki (if I recall correctly). I think it varies by which US State you're shipping to but it shouldn't be more than +/- $15


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

After a quick search on chrono 24 it seems that the bold plan of Kurono Tokyo to spoil the party of grey market profiteering has been a tremendous success! (Sarcasm)


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

todoroki said:


> After a quick search on chrono 24 it seems that the bold plan of Kurono Tokyo to spoil the party of grey market profiteering has been a tremendous success! (Sarcasm)


To be fair, the scalpers have had some of the wind taken out of their sails. Average asking price is only about 2x list, not 3 or 4x it started with. And there are less than 10 on C24 so far, rather than the 30-40 I expected. Of course, there will probably be dozens more spread over Facebook's digital products.


----------



## hyperkin (Aug 27, 2012)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> I think for Australia yeah. Paid around AU$650


Good luck this time, that sounds kinda high.


----------



## hyperkin (Aug 27, 2012)

moheel said:


> I paid $116 for the Chrono 2 (importing to the US) and $84 for the Toki (if I recall correctly). I think it varies by which US State you're shipping to but it shouldn't be more than +/- $15


That is good to know. Thanks


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

jmariorebelo said:


> No idea how much VAT is in AUS


Should be 10% import tax + fees. I calculated my tax based on how much I paid and it's give or take 13%. Currency conversion should also be considered I think.



hyperkin said:


> Good luck this time, that sounds kinda high.


Thanks. My watch savings is now back to 0 lol.


----------



## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

How were you guys notified about customs fees in the US? I’ve only been here a short while and never had to import into the US before.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

todoroki said:


> After a quick search on chrono 24 it seems that the bold plan of Kurono Tokyo to spoil the party of grey market profiteering has been a tremendous success! (Sarcasm)


I still do not understand why/how people can take the Chrono 24 listings as the determination of the actual resale value of watches. The 2 Toki's that have sold on eBay have gone for around $2800 which is an increase over the cost but definitely not close to the $4500 lowest price we are seeing on Chrono 24. There's been plenty of discussion in this thread of the prices so far on Reddit so I would assume eBay and Reddit are more representative of the actual pricing and not C24.



WatchEater666 said:


> How were you guys notified about customs fees in the US? I've only been here a short while and never had to import into the US before.


I got a text from DHL for my Chrono 2 but then again I am signed up for text notifications for my shipments through them. I also think there was an email but with the text notifications I paid immediately so there was no hold up. My recommendation is that once you get the DHL information from Kurono that you visit the DHL website and sign up for their shipment notifications.


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

To the casual observer it would seem that Chrono 24 is the AD for Kurono such is their sheer amount of stock.


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

todoroki said:


> To the casual observer it would seem that Chrono 24 is the AD for Kurono such is their sheer amount of stock.


Some nice profits there? Of course dealers (at whom C24 is mostly aimed) will charge anywhere from a third more to practically double what a private sale advertised for, whereas eBay is mostly two-bit flippers and small-timers who won the raffle and don't care what they bought.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

todoroki said:


> After a quick search on chrono 24 it seems that the bold plan of Kurono Tokyo to spoil the party of grey market profiteering has been a tremendous success! (Sarcasm)





todoroki said:


> To the casual observer it would seem that Chrono 24 is the AD for Kurono such is their sheer amount of stock.


I think you're right (minus the sarcasm). These watches appear to be slow movers now (I've been looking at how many get listed vs how many sell), and are not fetching any of the ridiculous prices being asked. Kurono Tokyo may in fact have spoiled the grey market profiteering just by releasing so many watches that are all descendants of 2-3 unique watch designs. I think we're reaching market saturation 😂


----------



## iddaka (Apr 5, 2019)

christianj said:


> I still do not understand why/how people can take the Chrono 24 listings as the determination of the actual resale value of watches. The 2 Toki's that have sold on eBay have gone for around $2800 which is an increase over the cost but definitely not close to the $4500 lowest price we are seeing on Chrono 24. There's been plenty of discussion in this thread of the prices so far on Reddit so I would assume eBay and Reddit are more representative of the actual pricing and not C24.


Yes, C24 prices are quite artificial IMO.
C24 prices have two significant bumps - the C24 charge for selling (6%, IIRC) and the Paypal charges (another 3-5% depending on where you are selling from). Sometimes the shipping charges for worst case scenario are also added since buyers do not like to see that come later in the sales cycle. And then some more negotiation room for the price advertised.


----------



## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

WatchEater666 said:


> How were you guys notified about customs fees in the US? I've only been here a short while and never had to import into the US before.


DHL makes it easy to pay online. It will all be tied to your tracking number. It takes about 24 hours after reaching the customs center


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> I think you're right (minus the sarcasm). These watches appear to be slow movers now (I've been looking at how many get listed vs how many sell), and are not fetching any of the ridiculous prices being asked. Kurono Tokyo may in fact have spoiled the grey market profiteering just by releasing so many watches that are all descendants of 2-3 unique watch designs. I think we're reaching market saturation 😂


Yeah I think it's a problem that KT actually alluded to in one of their IG posts by mentioning in the future that there would be less variations ( I can't remember their exact wording). I just counted no less than 10 Grand Akane's on Chrono 24 sitting there at prices ranging $5K and upwards with no takers which is pretty ridiculous.


----------



## DMcMaine (Oct 14, 2018)

Here is a photo with the Delugs Natural Shell Cordovan strap installed:


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

DMcMaine said:


> Here is a photo with the Delugs Natural Shell Cordovan strap installed:
> View attachment 16025194


I think this will look great after the strap patinates a bit. I am torn between going for natural cordovan (for patina) or olive patina (for some reason, I think the color should work). Anybody has the Kurono green Hiroshige strap? Would love to see the combo.


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I think this will look great after the strap patinates a bit. I am torn between going for natural cordovan (for patina) or olive patina (for some reason, I think the color should work). Anybody has the Kurono green Hiroshige strap? Would love to see the combo.


As you wish 🙂

I think I still like grey best


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

moheel said:


> As you wish 🙂
> 
> I think I still like grey best
> 
> ...


Looks good, thanks for the pic. But yeah, looked better in my head. Maybe I will go with gray or navy blue instead.


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Although the 20mm lug width makes it an easy watch to switch straps with, does anyone else not agree that it would look more elegant with a 18mm width? I always felt 20mm is an unusual width for a watch of 37mm diameter. A lot of GS are 19mm and they are larger and chunkier.


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Looks good, thanks for the pic. But yeah, looked better in my head. Maybe I will go with gray or navy blue instead.


I haven't tried navy/midnight blue yet but I bet it will look good. The Hiroshige strap does look good on the Chrono 2.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

moheel said:


> I think I still like grey best


Definitely grey or blue of the options presented so far.


----------



## conrad227 (Oct 9, 2020)

todoroki said:


> Although the 20mm lug width makes it an easy watch to switch straps with, does anyone else not agree that it would look more elegant with a 18mm width? I always felt 20mm is an unusual width for a watch of 37mm diameter. A lot of GS are 19mm and they are larger and chunkier.


I definitely thought about that, too. I don't have this model but I have a few of the earlier releases. I think he was going for a more modern feature here.


----------



## Anizer (Feb 20, 2021)

Anyone find the winding of the miyota movement unpleasant or stiff?


----------



## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Anizer said:


> Anyone find the winding of the miyota movement unpleasant or stiff?


Haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. It can be loud but we all knew that going in.


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

My Toki just got shipped! Chrono2 last week as well.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> My Toki just got shipped! Chrono2 last week as well.


Congrats! What was your order number range?


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> Congrats! What was your order number range?


Thanks! High 44xx.


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Thanks! High 44xx.


Wow, they are really taking their sweet time with shipping out the units (especially considering they already produced x amount of units pre-sale). I think I should expect mine by the end of August or early September then.


----------



## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Wow, they are really taking their sweet time with shipping out the units


In all fairness it's close to the 50004500 mark. Nice milestone.

I expect those in the early 50xx45xx range to get their shipping notifications soonish.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> In all fairness it's close to the 5000 mark. Nice milestone.
> 
> I expect those in the early 50xx range to get their shipping notifications soonish.


I'm 46XX and haven't got a shipping notification yet, so I think we're a ways off from 5000.


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> I'm 46XX and haven't got a shipping notification yet, so I think we're a ways off from 5000.


Wait sorry, close to 4500. Brain fart at 7am. I'll edit my post.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

=


RetiredKarlMarx said:


> Wow, they are really taking their sweet time with shipping out the units (especially considering they already produced x amount of units pre-sale). I think I should expect mine by the end of August or early September then.


Agree! so far it looks like less than 300 units in a month with the advantage of preproduction time after the sale. If they really sold around 3k units this might take 10 months at this snails pace.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Me waiting for my shipping notification:


----------



## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

singularityseven said:


> Me waiting for my shipping notification:


I cheer myself up by thinking that the Toki is more of a Fall watch than a Summer watch.


----------



## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

RetiredKarlMarx said:


> I cheer myself up by thinking that the Toki is more of a Fall watch than a Summer watch.


Actually my 55xx looks like it will be a summer watch...2022


----------



## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Wise man say there is virtue in delayed gratification.

-Kurono Bunkyo Tokyo.


----------



## guillelle (Mar 7, 2019)

Just received the shipping confirmation! Order on the high 4500's.

Now to keep refreshing the tracking page...


----------



## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> Me waiting for my shipping notification:


I have two MKII's in line.. I am thinking of adding this watch to that list.. Order it and forget it types.. 48xx.. you?


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

reluctantsnowman said:


> I have two MKII's in line.. I am thinking of adding this watch to that list.. Order it and forget it types.. 48xx.. you?


46XX, but maybe wise for me to do the same.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

reluctantsnowman said:


> I am thinking of adding this watch to that list.. Order it and forget it types.. 48xx.. you?


What are those of us that are in the upper 5000 (and close to 6000) range supposed to do? Their Nov-Dec timeframe guidance that they emailed out is not looking realistic at all based on what has happened so far. Likely won't see it before Xmas....and I finished the transaction at 3 minutes into the 10 minute release time.

Let's look at the delivery schedule they provided:
Mid-Jun thru Jul: 35% of orders
Aug thru Sep: 25% of orders
Oct thru Nov: 20% of orders
Dec thru Jan: 20% of orders

If we assume they sold around 3k units as deferred by the order numbers, they should be shipping order as follows:
Mid-Jun thru Jul: 1000 pieces
Aug thru Sep: 750 pieces
Oct thru Nov: 625 pieces
Dec thru Jan: 625 pieces

We are now in August and they have shipped around 300 units...again based on comments and order numbers referenced........so 10% instead of 35%.

Honestly not sure how they can do another release in 2021 based on this. There are also reports that all the Chrono 2 orders have not been shipped yet even though they had provided an update a while back saying they would be done at latest in July....several months later than the original May date.


----------



## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

christianj said:


> What are those of us that are in the upper 5000 (and close to 6000) range supposed to do? Their Nov-Dec timeframe guidance that they emailed out is not looking realistic at all based on what has happened so far. Likely won't see it before Xmas....and I finished the transaction at 3 minutes into the 10 minute release time.


I was told that my batch would be fulfilled from July through August, so if I get my watch before the end of August, I think it's fair to assume they're on schedule.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

singularityseven said:


> I was told that my batch would be fulfilled from July through August, so if I get my watch before the end of August, I think it's fair to assume they're on schedule.


*I hope you are right* but that would mean if you get a 46xx order number by the end of August they would have done 400 pieces instead of the 1000+ they should have done by end of August. The fact that they had said 35% would be in the first batch would have indicated that they were preproducing and expected to get a larger number out in the beginning....that however does not seem to be what is happening...hence me updating my expectations on when those of us in the back end of the orders will get theirs.


----------



## reluctantsnowman (Jan 5, 2017)

christianj said:


> *I hope you are right* but that would mean if you get a 46xx order number by the end of August they would have done 400 pieces instead of the 1000+ they should have done by end of August. The fact that they had said 35% would be in the first batch would have indicated that they were preproducing and expected to get a larger number out in the beginning....that however does not seem to be what is happening...hence me updating my expectations on when those of us in the back end of the orders will get theirs.


48xx.. Their email to me also said July-August, same as @singularityseven... At this point, I am not really bothered.. I dont intend to flip it.. They can take their sweet time


----------



## ispeshaled (Sep 10, 2016)

47xx here. Sounds like they're making good progress. Pretty optimistic that I'll get mine before the end of September...right in time for an out of town wedding!


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

ispeshaled said:


> 47xx here. Sounds like they're making good progress. Pretty optimistic that I'll get mine before the end of September...right in time for an out of town wedding!


I am not so lucky. Ordered it for my bday, but it won't make it on time. No big deal though, I'd rather get it a bit later then having to send it in later for QC issues.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bpanders (Nov 5, 2020)

Moderate high 45xx here and got my notification this morning. By my notes, they've pushed out close to 100 in the past three days, after a seemingly long couple week hiatus.


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

christianj said:


> Honestly not sure how they can do another release in 2021 based on this.


I hope not so it will give me time to save lol. Imo there will definitely be one more watch between now and the next anniversary. Could just be released towards the end of the year or early next similar to the chrono2.


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## BrownPedro (Feb 20, 2020)

Got my shipping notification this morning! Very early 46xx.


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## thewatchidiot (Oct 5, 2018)

Received shipping notification Monday and received my watch today. 
Dial certainly changes shades with different lighting


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

thewatchidiot said:


> Received shipping notification Monday and received my watch today.
> Dial certainly changes shades with different lighting


Interesting to see how different the dial color looks in different lighting. Would you say that in person the color of the dial usually looks more like the first photo (darker, more saturated) or more like the second photo (lighter, more pale pink)?


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

thewatchidiot said:


> Received shipping notification Monday and received my watch today.
> Dial certainly changes shades with different lighting


That looks wonderful. Congrats on the new watch!


----------



## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)




----------



## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)




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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

46xx shipped today.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

nitron135 said:


> 46xx shipped today.


May I ask for a narrower range in the xx, since I'm in 4650-4700 😂


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)




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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

singularityseven said:


> May I ask for a narrower range in the xx, since I'm in 4650-4700


A bit under that, imagine you are very very close.


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## Gavstar (May 28, 2021)

I’m also just a bit under 4650, and have just got my shipping confirmation 😀. Definitely some good progress being made. Looking forward to getting the watch in my hands, all the pics here are great!


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

I am 4625-4650, should be my turn soon 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Just go to open my Toki and as people said, the strap has to be changed. I don't expect it to be the same as the chronograph 2, but for those who are interested, here's a side by side comparison.


No padding which basically means a flat profile. Chrono2 has a tapered padding.
Feels rough
Genuine leather

Reminds me of the Seiko Alpinist and Grand Seiko SBGW231. Beautiful watches, but better with a nicer strap.



http://imgur.com/a/wRBUWnr


Edit:
My Toki


http://imgur.com/DvxHJIq


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## Piter De Vries (Apr 18, 2019)

Some eye candy for the unfortunates still waiting.


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## todoroki (Jul 19, 2018)

Piter De Vries said:


> Some eye candy for the unfortunates still waiting.
> View attachment 16046177


Nice, but they certainly aren't breaking any world records in shipping time.


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## WatchEater666 (May 27, 2019)

I think this watch looks really good on white people and probably black people too but if you're in the middle like me, it blends into the skin a bit sometimes. Really noticeable in the last shot specifically. So yeah, maybe stay away if you are a medium brown toast.


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## Gavstar (May 28, 2021)

Mine has just arrived today (after being notified of dispatch on Friday - very quick delivery to the UK with DHL!)
My first impressions are very positive. The dial colour is lovely and completely different to anything else I have. It does wear pretty small though which is no problem for me with my wrist size but it still surprises me a bit. I compared it to my 38mm Vacheron and it wears noticeably smaller imo even though it's only 1mm less diameter. I think the size of the bezel is exaggerated by the dark ring around the dial from the sapphire crystal.


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

While I wait for my grey strap, I swapped it to a curved beige strap.



http://imgur.com/a/C7jZLCP


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

Anybody with order numbers greater than 4650 hear anything yet?


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

#4625-4650 expecting delivery today. Got shipping notification 4 days ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RetiredKarlMarx (Dec 7, 2020)

I had my doubts, but this is just insanely beautiful. The color is incredibly complex and hard to describe how dynamic the dial is! It changes from brick red to light coral pink with light wrist movements. The well polished details go from bright metal to black, adding to the dynamic nature. The case is well executed and very organic. The strap&#8230; well&#8230; it is a slight letdown, to put it mildly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tokyo321 (May 22, 2021)

Delugs Straps just prepared a lookbook of possible strap pairings for the Kuruno Toki. Feel free to click on the link below to see some inspired combinations:









Delugs Lookbook: Kurono Tokyo Anniversary 朱鷺:Toki


Delugs Lookbook (DLB) is a on-going series where we pair watches with a wide range of leather straps, from calf to alligator, casual to formal, giving you some strap recommendations and inspiration on how you can level up your strap game. This guide will be updated whenever we have more photos...




delugs.com





(Disclaimer: Other than as a customer, I'm not affiliated with Delugs)


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Tokyo321 said:


> Delugs Straps just prepared a lookbook of possible strap pairings for the Kuruno Toki. Feel free to click on the link below to see some inspired combinations:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Link doesn't work but would love to see. Could you correct?


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## Thadeust (Dec 14, 2018)

Looks like the link is correct. It just doesn't resolve correctly when pasted as a URL into this forum due to the Kanji lettering.

You can go to the look book homepage here and select Kurono at the top of the page:









Strap Guide


The Strap Guide series was created as a way to showcase different strap options on various watches, with the help of the watch community. We wanted to reach out to different personalities in our community, because of the variety that this provides, in terms of the watches featured, straps chosen...




delugs.com


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## brianinCA (Jan 13, 2014)

Thadeust said:


> Looks like the link is correct. It just doesn't resolve correctly when pasted as a URL into this forum due to the Kanji lettering.
> 
> You can go to the look book homepage here and select Kurono at the top of the page:
> 
> ...


Fun to see all the strap combos. These are my favorite from what Delugs posted.


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## shiker (Aug 19, 2017)

Just recieved a shipping notice for my order between 4675 - 4700.


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## ispeshaled (Sep 10, 2016)

Hoping to get my notification soon with my order #4700-4750!


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Works well I think!


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## Gazza74 (Jul 27, 2013)

For those who’ve received their watches already, would you say it wears like a true 37mm, or larger/smaller?


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## fuzzylemon (Dec 4, 2016)

For me the watch looks smaller due to the mirror finish ring around the crystal that tends to look black. That’s my thoughts at least. 
I might have misjudged my wrist size to watch ratio. Lol.


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## moheel (Feb 21, 2021)

Tokyo321 said:


> Delugs Straps just prepared a lookbook of possible strap pairings for the Kuruno Toki. Feel free to click on the link below to see some inspired combinations:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! Thanks for sharing.


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## Gavstar (May 28, 2021)

I agree with the comment that it wears smaller than 37mm, as shown by my comparison photo above with my vacheron traditionelle.


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## Delugs (Jul 29, 2020)

Tokyo321 said:


> Delugs Straps just prepared a lookbook of possible strap pairings for the Kuruno Toki. Feel free to click on the link below to see some inspired combinations:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was about to come here and share the Lookbook, and realised that someone already did it. Thanks for sharing!


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## ispeshaled (Sep 10, 2016)

My order 4700-4750 just shipped!


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## ispeshaled (Sep 10, 2016)

Just got mine in today and no customs bill. Guess I got lucky!


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## Heirology (Jun 30, 2021)

Just received the shipping notice ! Order #486x here.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

In case anyone wondered how the Toki's Coral/Pink dial compares to the MING 17.06 Copper dial, you might find this interesting!


----------



## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

singularityseven said:


> In case anyone wondered how the Toki's Coral/Pink dial compares to the MING 17.06 Copper dial, you might find this interesting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been waiting on you to finally get video footage captured for this! Going off the picture alone, the non textured portion of the Ming looks almost exactly the same.

Will there be an extended review, rather than a 2 in 2min video? Thanks for the great content!


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

MojoS said:


> I've been waiting on you to finally get video footage captured for this! Going off the picture alone, the non textured portion of the Ming looks almost exactly the same.
> 
> Will there be an extended review, rather than a 2 in 2min video? Thanks for the great content!


Thanks for looking. These videos may have got rendered to make the colors look alike, but there's definitely more "copper" in the MING and more "pink" in the Kurono's dial. If you were to hold both of them in your hand, you'd definitely notice a difference. I blame my photography/editing/videography if they look similar!

Yes, I hope to publish that one next Monday!


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## bcgr33n (May 15, 2012)

#494x got shipped!


----------



## watchesinnature (Jan 1, 2020)

Argh still a long wait for me. 
It's actually quite painful to see the watch popping up all over Insta. Zzz...


----------



## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

Me too, quite perturbed to see people keep posting them for sales before me receiving mine. Plus that earlier stupid seiji campaign. Everything adds up to this sucky feeling...


----------



## bcgr33n (May 15, 2012)

Thickness is a bit too thick from what i expected. Shouldn't it be 7mm?


----------



## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

The difference in measured vs advertised thickness is way off. So much so I wonder if they copy/pasted that specification for the wrong watch. Send them an email and update the thread with their response.


----------



## jmariorebelo (Jan 14, 2019)

John MS said:


> The difference in measured vs advertised thickness is way off. So much so I wonder if they copy/pasted that specification for the wrong watch. Send them an email and update the thread with their response.


Probably (and conveniently) used the height of the case and wrote "including the crystal" when it should be "excluding".


----------



## Pongster (Jan 7, 2017)

jmariorebelo said:


> Probably (and conveniently) used the height of the case and wrote "including the crystal" when it should be "excluding".


What a difference a simple prefix makes


----------



## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

jmariorebelo said:


> Probably (and conveniently) used the height of the case and wrote "including the crystal" when it should be "excluding".


it could well be a poor description. However, the watch uses a rotor wound movement and that would be a thick crystal to fill 4.2mm. Hopefully someone who knows this brand better than me will have the answer. Stunning watch though.


----------



## bcgr33n (May 15, 2012)

John MS said:


> The difference in measured vs advertised thickness is way off. So much so I wonder if they copy/pasted that specification for the wrong watch. Send them an email and update the thread with their response.


yes, off by 4.2 mm is way too much. shot them a messages already. Would never bought it if i knew it is this thick. Wonder why no one mentioned about it.


----------



## John MS (Mar 17, 2006)

bcgr33n said:


> yes, off by 4.2 mm is way too much. shot them a messages already. Would never bought it if i knew it is this thick. Wonder why no one mentioned about it.


Ignoring the spec sheet and just looking at the watch I would expect a tallish watch around 10mm to 11mm. To me it looks good in part because of the rounded case side and chamfered back.. How does it feel on your wrist?


----------



## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

bcgr33n said:


> yes, off by 4.2 mm is way too much. shot them a messages already. Would never bought it if i knew it is this thick. Wonder why no one mentioned about it.


This was certainly discussed on forums before release. With the dimensions of the movement, 7mm would not have been possible and it was assumed that it would be the same height as the previous versions.

Not and excuse to not correct the specs and was disappointing to see some blogs reprint the specs without questioning what was clearly an error, but it was discussed.


----------



## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Ebel Senior 1911 has one of the thinnest moments and it is still 8.4mm, how could you expect a mechanical watch to be 7mm?


----------



## bcgr33n (May 15, 2012)

svetoslav said:


> Ebel Senior 1911 has one of the thinnest moments and it is still 8.4mm, how could you expect a mechanical watch to be 7mm?


Thats what they have listed in their specs. Not my fault to expect it to be same as the specs. Maybe i was too naive. It would be fine if they didnt say "including sapphire" as many watch brands dont count the crystal's height. The miyota 90s5 is 3.9mm thick and i guessed they still have another 4 mm to play with to stay in 7.x mm height. Anyways im quite disappointed as i really like slim watches (under 10mm) and one of the main reason i made this purchase. Guess the upcoming Tiffany blue dial wont be for me.


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

BRAUN XXIII said:


> Me too, quite perturbed to see people keep posting them for sales before me receiving mine.


Why? This is completely normal and expected, and routine behaviour in the investment community (which it is, before you think it's actually about horology!).


----------



## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

bcgr33n said:


> Thats what they have listed in their specs. Not my fault to expect it to be same as the specs. Maybe i was too naive. It would be fine if they didnt say "including sapphire" as many watch brands dont count the crystal's height. The miyota 90s5 is 3.9mm thick and i guessed they still have another 4 mm to play with to stay in 7.x mm height. Anyways im quite disappointed as i really like slim watches (under 10mm) and one of the main reason i made this purchase. Guess the upcoming Tiffany blue dial wont be for me.


The 7mm height quote is obviously a bit random. The crystal is not 4.2mm in height, 4.2mm is a a "plug number" getting from the quoted height to the thickness shown by one poster, above. 7mm would be next to impossible for a watch with a 3.9mm movement. That would leave only 3.1mm for the crystal, the crystal's clearance to the top of the hand stack, the hand stack, the dial clearance, the dial's maximum thickness, any gasket or hour hand retaining spring fitted between the dial and movement, then the clearance between the movement rotor and caseback, and the caseback itself.


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

nitron135 said:


> some blogs reprint the specs without questioning what was clearly an error, but it was discussed.


Would that be the same as calling the NE86A a Grand Seiko movement?

Did a boring unboxing vid (6:09) if anybody is bored.


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## bcgr33n (May 15, 2012)

John MS said:


> The difference in measured vs advertised thickness is way off. So much so I wonder if they copy/pasted that specification for the wrong watch. Send them an email and update the thread with their response.


this is what they responed.


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## bcgr33n (May 15, 2012)

Some initial impressions, 37mm is pretty nice, and the thickness wears like a datejust which i think its abit too thick. Dial and hands finishing are great, underhands are polished as well. Original strap feels cheap, so swapped for a delugs gray strap. Handling it reminds me of an Orientstar classic. Polishing is good, but overall doesnt have the premium feel to it.


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## singularityseven (May 1, 2020)

I just published my review of the Toki, for anyone that's interested!


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## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

Out of curiosity, does anyone have an idea of the current order #s which are being shipped out? 

I can only assume they're a bit behind their current estimates based on the last time an order# was referenced here - Depending on how accurate the numbers are I feel as though getting to late 5xxxs by the end of the year is a stretch.

Fingers crossed.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

MojoS said:


> Out of curiosity, does anyone have an idea of the current order #s which are being shipped out?
> 
> I can only assume they're a bit behind their current estimates based on the last time an order# was referenced here - Depending on how accurate the numbers are I feel as though getting to late 5xxxs by the end of the year is a stretch.


Last I saw was on TRF and they posted first week in September with a 474x number. I am in the upper 5000s like you so I'll definitely be waiting longer than anticipated since the rollout seems to be moving VERY slowly.


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## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

christianj said:


> Last I saw was on TRF and they posted first week in September with a 474x number. I am in the upper 5000s like you so I'll definitely be waiting longer than anticipated since the rollout seems to be moving VERY slowly.


Thank you for the info ChristianJ!


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## Tokyo321 (May 22, 2021)

MojoS said:


> Thank you for the info ChristianJ! If it takes too long into the new year I'll have to get my delivery addressed changed to a different country, I wonder whether that would trigger their red flags and have the assume that I'm a 'flipper' and putting me on the naughty list. What a Palava!
> 
> Will have to figure that one out in the distant future


It appears that, due to the delay in delivery, they've reconsidered this previous policy and are now allowing the change of delivery address if you inform them. It was in their email confirming the estimated delivery date of the Toki.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@MojoS I think if someone buys a watch months out and then the manufacturer delays the delivery even further then it would be a situation that the manufacturer should understand if someone moves. If this is the case for you later, I would email or message them with the concern and maybe not just change the address with a different country on their website.


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## OliverBjorgan (Apr 15, 2016)

MojoS said:


> Out of curiosity, does anyone have an idea of the current order #s which are being shipped out?
> 
> I can only assume they're a bit behind their current estimates based on the last time an order# was referenced here - Depending on how accurate the numbers are I feel as though getting to late 5xxxs by the end of the year is a stretch.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


My order # was 495x and it was shipped 26th of August.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

MojoS said:


> Thank you for the info ChristianJ! If it takes too long into the new year I'll have to get my delivery addressed changed to a different country, I wonder whether that would trigger their red flags and have the assume that I'm a 'flipper' and putting me on the naughty list. What a Palava!
> 
> Will have to figure that one out in the distant future





Tokyo321 said:


> It appears that, due to the delay in delivery, they've reconsidered this previous policy and are now allowing the change of delivery address if you inform them. It was in their email confirming the estimated delivery date of the Toki.





christianj said:


> @MojoS I think if someone buys a watch months out and then the manufacturer delays the delivery even further then it would be a situation that the manufacturer should understand if someone moves. If this is the case for you later, I would email or message them with the concern and maybe not just change the address with a different country on their website.


I can attest to the fact that they do allow change of address. I changed my address twice. As simple as sending them an email and they respond with confirmation within 1-2 days.


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## Heirology (Jun 30, 2021)

Same here. I amended my shipping address, they responded within the same day. A week later, my piece was shipped out to the new address with zero issues. Excellent customer service.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Have orders #5xxxx started shipping out yet?


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## Cheddar (May 2, 2018)

WizardofWatch said:


> Have orders #5xxxx started shipping out yet?


Yep, low 5000s starting to arrive next week.


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## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Cheddar said:


> Yep, low 5000s starting to arrive next week.


Thanks! So they are sort of on track I guess.


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## Intred (Mar 31, 2014)

WizardofWatch said:


> Thanks! So they are sort of on track I guess.


yep I can confirm, have received my watch with order number 503X. Paid 385 USD import duty and taxes


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## SKYWATCH007 (Oct 2, 2020)

Intred said:


> yep I can confirm, have received my watch with order number 503X. Paid 385 USD import duty and taxes


That's insane !!!


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## Cheddar (May 2, 2018)

Intred said:


> yep I can confirm, have received my watch with order number 503X. Paid 385 USD import duty and taxes


Are you in the US? Earlier in the thread they were reporting ~$80. Is there some way to appeal the charge?


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Cheddar said:


> Are you in the US? Earlier in the thread they were reporting ~$80. Is there some way to appeal the charge?


He's got a Belgian flag on his profile so I would say he's not in the US. $80 or so has been reported by US members.


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## One-Seventy (Mar 25, 2019)

christianj said:


> He's got a Belgian flag on his profile so I would say he's not in the US. $80 or so has been reported by US members.


Yep. Somewhat of a non sequitur - he quoted a private European customs bill in $. I don't know why anyone would do that. Everyone has access to a currency conversion website!


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

One-Seventy said:


> Yep. Somewhat of a non sequitur - he quoted a private European customs bill in $. I don't know why anyone would do that. Everyone has access to a currency conversion website!


i would think the amount he quoted in $ is converted from the amount he actually paid in €.


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## Intred (Mar 31, 2014)

christianj said:


> i would think the amount he quoted in $ is converted from the amount he actually paid in €.


yeah you are right, sorry for the confusion, I paid 320 EUR


----------



## Cheddar (May 2, 2018)

Sorry for side-tracking the thread by not realizing the customs charge was non-US (couldn't see the flag in Tapatalk, which would have answered my question).

So here's a shot of mine, which arrived last night!


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@Cheddar That's a really nice strap combo you went with!


----------



## Cheddar (May 2, 2018)

christianj said:


> @Cheddar That's a really nice strap combo you went with!


Thanks! It's a saffiano from DeLugs.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

Some of these have started to hit secondary market in China, so another reference for resale value... So about 4.7k usd for the toki and 7k for mori


----------



## WizardofWatch (Dec 12, 2018)

Anyone know what order # are being shipped now?


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

WizardofWatch said:


> Anyone know what order # are being shipped now?


would love to know that too....


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Reports were at 5000 around 2 weeks ago (Post #814) so unless someone chimes in I would guess at around 5100-5200…. But then again they may be at a pause while they work on Seiji orders.


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

christianj said:


> Reports were at 5000 around 2 weeks ago (Post #814) so unless someone chimes in I would guess at around 5100-5200…. But then again they may be at a pause while they work on Seiji orders.


Thanks. The Seiji order comment is unfortunately a good one..


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

If they ship my watch as scheduled initially in October I don't mind the Seiji, but if Toki is delayed for this reason I'll will not be happy with Kurono at all


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## ChronoTraveler (Oct 28, 2014)

Cheddar said:


> Sorry for side-tracking the thread by not realizing the customs charge was non-US (couldn't see the flag in Tapatalk, which would have answered my question).
> 
> So here's a shot of mine, which arrived last night!


Probably the coolest combo I've seen. Love those saffiano straps. I would never figure it would pair so nicely. +10 Fashion points for you on that one.

Congrats!


----------



## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

Anybody received theirs and has a # to share? Wondering when my 6xxx will ever arrive


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Mine is also 6xxx and initially November was stated?


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

svetoslav said:


> Mine is also 6xxx and initially November was stated?


not sure stated commitment have been made for prior numbers so I doubt it will be in November, unfortunately. Interesting to note that this thread is very quiet....are the latest shipment made to non WUS members? weird...


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## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

Read into this what you will, but when asking for an address change they responded with the following:

_We will make a note in our system to email you once your order is scheduled for fulfillment in the next batch_

My order is 59xx, hoping this means the next batch is on the closer side of their estimate which they said for me was nov-dec.

regardless, not too long now.


----------



## eresaru (Feb 17, 2017)

FWIW I still have not heard anything about my #53xx order.


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## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

eresaru said:


> FWIW I still have not heard anything about my #53xx order.


Why did you have to do that to all of us… better to get my expectations shattered now rather than later I suppose.

i hope you find out soon!


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## eresaru (Feb 17, 2017)

MojoS said:


> Why did you have to do that to all of us… better to get my expectations shattered now rather than later I suppose.
> 
> i hope you find out soon!


Sorry mate 

I am partly posting this in case for whatever reason my order has been overtaken. Kind of dreading someone will post “oh, my #55xx” was shipped months ago”.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Last I saw on another site was that someone that had a 51XX number got theirs delivered on Oct. 12 (which shipped the 1st week of Oct.) so it does not appear like they have sent out many since then if @eresaru is at 53xx and he hasn't got a notification yet. I'm in the 59xx club (which was November into December dating) so it does appear like they might not be varying from the timeline too much as of yet. I did just got my Seiji shipment notice today so I'm happy about that!


----------



## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

christianj said:


> Last I saw on another site was that someone that had a 51XX number got theirs delivered on Oct. 12 (which shipped the 1st week of Oct.) so it does not appear like they have sent out many since then if @eresaru is at 53xx and he hasn't got a notification yet. I'm in the 59xx club (which was November into December dating) so it does appear like they might not be varying from the timeline too much as of yet. I did just got my Seiji shipment notice today so I'm happy about that!


Thank you all for your responses....it does help...I am now surely not expecting 6xxx order to be under the tree...guess I have to buy something else for that purpose


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

Sorry, I misremembered my order number, it is actually a 55XX number and not 6XXX.
The good news is that I received an email today stating that there is a 2-3 weeks delay vs original plan and that my watch will arrive 'by November'....so I am apparently a month away....yeah!! Looking forward to it and will update thread once received...There is hope folks....its coming...


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## eresaru (Feb 17, 2017)

I received the same email. 
It looks like the 52xx-55xx (at least) are in the same batch and will be delivered next.


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## eresaru (Feb 17, 2017)

It looks like it was fated to be sent three days after I first posted I hadn’t received word. 
My 53xx order has shipped.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

eresaru said:


> My 53xx order has shipped.


Congrats!

There's a member on one of the other forums (I only lurk on) from Tokyo staying he complained due to the delays and is getting his watch this week. Funny thing is he said his order is 66XX and he missed a special occasion which has now long passed and requested to cancel his order due to this....he said Kurono is now sending him his watch out of sequence.

Honestly this seems like total BS to me.....first off....if you have order # 66xx there is NO way you should have expected to received your order by now. 66xx would have put him in the Dec-Jan group from the very beginning so the watch isn't even late. Second, if the special occasion has "way passed" why did he even buy the watch for it? Some people!


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## anonymousmoose (Sep 17, 2007)

I wouldn't touch this brand because of their 'women only' 'men forbidden to buy' campaign they tried to pull off.

I don't care for discrimination. I also wouldn't support a watch company that didn't sell to women.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

anonymousmoose said:


> I wouldn't touch this brand because of their 'women only' 'men forbidden to buy' campaign they tried to pull off.
> 
> I don't care for discrimination. I also wouldn't support a watch company that didn't sell to women.


If you can't move beyond that then I guess one less person competing for future releases....in the end they realized their intentions were not correct (or at least the translation of their intentions) and they changed the protocol of the release. Happens all the time....good intentions...bad execution and they admitted that and corrected their actions. More and better than most companies which wouldn't even admit the problem or the mistake.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

anonymousmoose said:


> I wouldn't touch this brand because of their 'women only' 'men forbidden to buy' campaign they tried to pull off.
> 
> I don't care for discrimination. I also wouldn't support a watch company that didn't sell to women.


great hehe


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

golffoxtrot said:


> great hehe


It is not forbidden to buy, it is just a limited watch with a preference for a women buyers.


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

eresaru said:


> It looks like it was fated to be sent three days after I first posted I hadn’t received word.
> My 53xx order has shipped.


Congrats! Hope same fate will happen to me soon...post some pics!


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

svetoslav said:


> It is not forbidden to buy, it is just a limited watch with a preference for a women buyers.
> [/QUOT





svetoslav said:


> It is not forbidden to buy, it is just a limited watch with a preference for a women buyers.


I work in marketing and I see these cross cultural blunders happen to all the time in communications going in all directions, so I think when people go all PC on them it's a little much...


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## eresaru (Feb 17, 2017)

If anyone in Australia is still waiting and wondering, the customs charge including all DHL and CC fees amounted to just under AUD$345. 

Shipping time was extremely quick though.


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

Anybody have heard from them yet? Last email from them was 3 weeks ago stating a nov delivery. Thx!


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## Dr_MC (Feb 9, 2021)

franksf said:


> Anybody have heard from them yet? Last email from them was 3 weeks ago stating a nov delivery. Thx!


Nothing here. What's your order number?

I'm #63XX, was promised Nov-Dec delivery but haven't heard anything so far. Looks like it'll be an early 2022 delivery.

On the bright side, I managed to order one of the grey Hiroshige straps for February which hopefully should be a good match, so they may arrive roughly at the same time.


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## fiskadoro (Sep 2, 2015)

#62xx here. Also promised a Nov/Dec delivery but haven't heard anything yet. Interesting to see the baby blue ones going out to people before all the toki orders were fulfilled. Can't say I necessarily agree with those tactics, but perhaps it helps keep the finances rolling in and the business afloat.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

fiskadoro said:


> #62xx here. Also promised a Nov/Dec delivery but haven't heard anything yet. Interesting to see the baby blue ones going out to people before all the toki orders were fulfilled. Can't say I necessarily agree with those tactics, but perhaps it helps keep the finances rolling in and the business afloat.


I'm in the 59xx camp so I am also still waiting. 

As for the Seiji shipments going out first and having priority over people still waiting on their Toki's....that has been addressed a couple of times....Seiji production of the original 388 units was planned before Toki according to what Kurono advised so that shouldn't impact Toki timeline. The additional 112 pieces they added on due to release uproar aren't going out till Jan 2022 so again...should have no impact on Toki. 

Honestly I think you are overthinking the finances part and I highly doubt it's to keep the business afloat....even thought that sounds better than the real reason.....they likely are having supply chain and manufacturing capacity issues like everyone else on the globe. The supply chain issues are also the reason they said they will release no further variants of the watch in 2022....if they wanted or needed cash you can bet that would not have been a call they would have made.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

My number is 65xx and was also promised Nov/Dec delivery, still nothing though. I saw the Hiroshige strap and had the chance to buy one, but honestly don't want anything from Kurono until I receive my Toki, it takes so long, maybe not getting anything else from them at all.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

svetoslav said:


> My number is 65xx and was also promised Nov/Dec delivery, still nothing though. I saw the Hiroshige strap and had the chance to buy one, but honestly don't want anything from Kurono until I receive my Toki, it takes so long, maybe not getting anything else from them at all.


With that order number weren't you in the last group which was promised deliveries through January?


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

christianj said:


> With that order number weren't you in the last group which was promised deliveries through January?


Nope, the mail I received stated Nov/Dec


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

svetoslav said:


> Nope, the mail I received stated Nov/Dec


just received it! What a beauty...just took it to supermarket ....colors are mood enhancers...


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

@franksf Congrats and nice to hear a report that someone has actually gotten one. Reports of members getting theirs have really slowed down (last was over a month ago) and many of us are still waiting. Hope to be up soon!


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

It is a beauty...still smitten by it....one more pic to help the ones still waiting feeling lucky to have secured one ...










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

franksf said:


> It is a beauty...still smitten by it....one more pic to help the ones still waiting feeling lucky to have secured one ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It looks absolutely gorgeous! Glad there has been some movement in the orders, the forums have gone cold in recent months. Judging from your previous picture it suites your wrist well from a size perspective, fingers crossed it’ll look as good on mine as it does yours!


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

MojoS said:


> It looks absolutely gorgeous! Glad there has been some movement in the orders, the forums have gone cold in recent months. Judging from your previous picture it suites your wrist well from a size perspective, fingers crossed it’ll look as good on mine as it does yours!


Thx! Yep size works for me even though it always look bigger on picture. I have a 7.25 wrist and it does wear bigger than 37 due I guess to the case design and polished reflection along with the lugs. The inner circles also make the dial appear bigger. I was worried about the size but not anymore. Hope it works for you too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

franksf said:


> Thx! Yep size works for me even though it always look bigger on picture. I have a 7.25 wrist and it does wear bigger than 37 due I guess to the case design and polished reflection along with the lugs. The inner circles also make the dial appear bigger. I was worried about the size but not anymore. Hope it works for you too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Also, forgot to mention for those thinking they have to find another strap...it works very well for me. I think the mat anthracite leather color and the very subtle grey stitching make a great combo with the watch, not dressing it down or up. Kind of a cool urban feel a la nomos I dare to say. I cannot think of a better strap at the moment. Tried many of my extra straps and none worked better. I guess Hajime knows what he is doing ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## David76 (Dec 24, 2015)

What order number has it been shipped to? 
The order number for my watch is in the 5800 range, but there is no contact.


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

55xx
You are getting close. I suggest you contact them if you would like an approximative date.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

I saw on one of the other forums I lurke on that someone with a 56xx number had gotten theirs as well. So definitely getting close.


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## David76 (Dec 24, 2015)

Today, I received ship information from DHL.
My order number is 58xx..


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

congrats!you will love it!


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## SKYWATCH007 (Oct 2, 2020)

Another release before the deliveries are finished 😂 









This one is only 3100USD.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Another release before the deliveries are finished
> View attachment 16283648
> 
> 
> This one is only 3100USD.


Yes, already discussed in the Kurono Tokyo Master Thread and in its own thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SKYWATCH007 (Oct 2, 2020)

christianj said:


> Yes, already discussed in the Kurono Tokyo Master Thread and in its own thread.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks Chief! Didn't know about those. Just saw it on IG and thought, hmm what a company slapping their customers in the face. Making new **** before finishing other ones.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Thanks Chief! Didn't know about those. Just saw it on IG and thought, hmm what a company slapping their customers in the face. Making new **** before finishing other ones.


Sadly happens all the time….Ming does it too.…released the 37.05 before shipping the majority of customers waiting on the 17.09.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Update for those still waiting….got confirmation that my 59xx order number is shipping. Original timeline was November onwards through December so they really aren’t running behind much.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

SKYWATCH007 said:


> Thanks Chief! Didn't know about those. Just saw it on IG and thought, hmm what a company slapping their customers in the face. Making new **** before finishing other ones.


It first happened with the Seiji, and I really don't like it. I intend to keep my Toki unique in my collection as the only Kurono  When I receive it of course, and if at all.


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## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

christianj said:


> Update for those still waiting….got confirmation that my 59xx order number is shipping. Original timeline was November onwards through December so they really aren’t running behind much.


That’s great to hear, finally another batch getting released!

I just got confirmation that my low 59xx shipped out too.

Well that’s the first and last time I order a watch 7 months in advance… until I get the bug again.


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## David76 (Dec 24, 2015)

Toki just arrived.....
(with delugs light grey nubuck strap)


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Update for those still waiting on their Tokis.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CXLg3j5JNqn/


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## David76 (Dec 24, 2015)

Today's wrist shot....


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## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

My number is very close to 6k and just received it too. I would like to check with all toki owners, do you find the slightly deeper colour near to the centre of dial acceptable? It is a small circle of darker tone seen only at certain angle, and with sufficient light it would not show. I checked out some of the photos here and it seems typical.


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

BRAUN XXIII said:


> My number is very close to 6k and just received it too. I would like to check with all toki owners, do you find the slightly deeper colour near to the centre of dial acceptable? It is a small circle of darker tone seen only at certain angle, and with sufficient light it would not show. I checked out some of the photos here and it seems typical.


This would seem to the the sunburst people refer to when describing the dial. Not sure what you mean by acceptable when that is part of the overall design. Is it acceptable from a quality perspective? Yes...because that is the way it is supposed to be and I suppose if it didn't have it that would not be acceptable. Is it acceptable for you? Only you can answer that.


----------



## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

christianj said:


> This would seem to the the sunburst people refer to when describing the dial. Not sure what you mean by acceptable when that is part of the overall design. Is it acceptable from a quality perspective? Yes...because that is the way it is supposed to be and I suppose if it didn't have it that would not be acceptable. Is it acceptable for you? Only you can answer that.


I am not referring to the design but the deeper salmon colour towards the centre of dial. Since you mentioned about design, I feel the design offers very similar feel like an Orient bambino or thinner bezel-less seiko 5. To me, I felt underwhelmed at first handling the watch at first but it does give out an elegance aura thanks to its simple dial and 3 reflective rings machined near the dial rim. At this price point, the crown and buckle can be more detailed in design.

My question about the deeper tone on dial centre is to gather owners' opinions about how they feel about it. Frankly I was surprised to see it at first when I examined the watch upon receipt. It does not seem to be a defect but I guess it could be caused by the drilling at the centre, causing a change of gradient of the dial. After contemplating for 2 days and seeing the same things from some of the toki photos from fellow members here, my though has settled down and feel it is largely acceptable since the difference is very subtle. I just want to check if other owners feel it is ok.


----------



## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I think this is due to the hands hub at the center and how it scatters light differently upon that section of the dial, it changes the light at that zone and I suppose is dynamic (not received mine yet).


----------



## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

BRAUN XXIII said:


> I am not referring to the design but the deeper salmon colour towards the centre of dial.


Not seeing what you are. Sorry but it sounds kind of like you are looking for a fault or imperfection in the dial. I would tend to agree with @svetoslav that maybe you are perceiving a difference at the hands hub due to the scattering of light. Maybe post a pic of what you are referencing.



BRAUN XXIII said:


> After contemplating for 2 days and seeing the same things from some of the toki photos from fellow members here, my though has settled down and feel it is largely acceptable since the difference is very subtle. I just want to check if other owners feel it is ok.


First I have seen anyone mention this so I doubt anyone else got worked up about it.


----------



## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

Well, after lurking on this thread since last May I’ve finally received my Toki and have had a few days to consider my thoughts.

Starting of at the beginning then, I had already watched most of the unboxing videos on YouTube in anticipation so I instead had my partner open up the DHL package so she could experience it for the first time (mild interest in watches as a result of taking an interest in my hobby). She loved it. Despite not having a luxury wood/leather packaging or having any actual weight behind it (weight=luxury in a lot of peoples minds) she thought it felt far more personal and considered than anything else I’ve shown her. Points to Kurono on that front.

The watch itself is absolutely stunning. Having only worn it around indoors I’ve not been able to look at it in a variety of different lights to see the full range of colours that some on here suggest but it is beautiful. Under my sim home lighting it looks almost Matte dark pink most of the time, but when I go into the lighter portions of my house it brightens up and becomes this radiant baby/pastel pink which looks incredible. My favourite feature is undoubtedly the 3 concentric crosshair like rings which turn to a striking white colour when reflecting light from a certain angle.

I can’t say anything about the movement itself, other than it’s loud when not on the wrist, something which does not impact me at all. I’ve had seiko 4r movements and miyota 8xxx series movements which have all seem pretty equal in the sound department.

I’ve not yet changed out the strap. I have a spare BoR and a couple of suede blue/grey straps to test, but in all honesty I’m happy enough with the current offering and will leave it on the oem strap during the honeymoon period. The grey paint/rubbery lining on the side does detract a bit from the look. Considering the fact that Kurono wrote to customs that leather strap was a calf leather strap worth 260$ (CAD I suppose) I find that hard to believe.

Overall, I’m thrilled with the purchase but I don’t think it’s entirely worth the money from a hardware perspective. You pay for the design and the name more than anything I guess, with the justification for this purchase being much more emotional when compared to other watches I’ve bought. The wait time and having to put money upfront for a product you can’t inspect before buying is annoying, that is for sure, but I feel like it’s increasingly common for all these indie/micro.


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## Jonathan T (Oct 28, 2020)

MojoS said:


> Well, after lurking on this thread since last May I’ve finally received my Toki and have had a few days to consider my thoughts.
> 
> Starting of at the beginning then, I had already watched most of the unboxing videos on YouTube in anticipation so I instead had my partner open up the DHL package so she could experience it for the first time (mild interest in watches as a result of taking an interest in my hobby). She loved it. Despite not having a luxury wood/leather packaging or having any actual weight behind it (weight=luxury in a lot of peoples minds) she thought it felt far more personal and considered than anything else I’ve shown her. Points to Kurono on that front.
> 
> ...


That’s a lovely salmon dial and cool to see actual Kanji on the dial 😄


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## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

christianj said:


> Not seeing what you are. Sorry but it sounds kind of like you are looking for a fault or imperfection in the dial. I would tend to agree with @svetoslav that maybe you are perceiving a difference at the hands hub due to the scattering of light. Maybe post a pic of what you are referencing.
> 
> 
> 
> First I have seen anyone mention this so I doubt anyone else got worked up about it.


I am not sure why you have come up with such a weird idea that I am trying to look for a fault deliberately. You definitely think too much, like what my wife usually does. As a consumer and watch collector, isn't it normal to check for my doubts when I see one after receiving the watch? By no mean this is a cheap watch. You don't see it doesn't mean there is not a problem. Please don't judge me like I am discussing a R brand here. This is still for Toki am I right? Anyway I am not specifically asking you only.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

I am pretty much on board with @MojoS in his assessment of the watch after a couple of days. Gorgeous dial that I like more and more especially after seeing it under various lighting conditions. I was worried about a couple of things when I bought the Toki (mainly the small size and the color possibly being too pink) but the size works (which I found out when I got the Seiji first) and the color is definitely not too pink. I too need to figure out a replacement strap because I also believe the factory strap cheapens the look and feel of the watch. Don't really understand that Kurono Tokyo would continue to use these types of straps....can an alligator or a better leather strap be that much more expensive? 

I've said it before as a fan of the brand....I think they need to move on from this case and do something new since they have already done so many dial variations in the same case. I passed on the Grand Hagane due to this. I now have a Toki, Seiji and a Chrono 2 from the brand and doubt I will add any more watches with just a new dial variation to my collection in the future. My guess would be that we would see a Chrono with a new dial as the next release and then after that I would hope we see something different.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

"cheapens the watch" haha, it is a cheap watch after all, don't look at the resale prices, I've bought it just for the 3 rings on the dial and the color too, I don't want anymore Kuronos, Toki is enough for me, still waiting shipment btw


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

svetoslav said:


> "cheapens the watch" haha, it is a cheap watch after all,


I guess that depends on who you ask. I agree with you that it is an inexpensive (not necessarily cheap) timepiece BUT for others it is not considered as such. Just read up a comment or two and you will see that it is referred to as "by no means a cheap watch." I personally see it as an inexpensive timepiece that looks more expensive than it is but I stand by my comment (which seems to be expressed by many owners) that the strap doesn't do the value perception any justice.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

christianj said:


> I guess that depends on who you ask. I agree with you that it is an inexpensive (not necessarily cheap) timepiece BUT for others it is not considered as such. Just read up a comment or two and you will see that it is referred to as "by no means a cheap watch." I personally see it as an inexpensive timepiece that looks more expensive than it is but I stand by my comment (which seems to be expressed by many owners) that the strap doesn't do the value perception any justice.


I actually think the stock strap is very appropriate for the philosophy of Kurono, minimalist and simple, a crocodile strap is like painting a classic vintage car with a chameleon metallic paint.


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## MojoS (Sep 23, 2018)

svetoslav said:


> I actually think the stock strap is very appropriate for the philosophy of Kurono, minimalist and simple, a crocodile strap is like painting a classic vintage car with a chameleon metallic paint.


I completely understand where you are coming from with that and I do agree - there is no need for the manufacturer to ship anything outlandish like an exotic leather strap or any kind of egregious colour (though the white one for the seiji was pushing that). That’s what aftermarket is for.

If you look at most of the wrist shots from other people, those that have swapped it out follow the same kind of ethos - keeping it simple with flat colours and minimal stitching. The complaints more often than not tend to be levelled at the quality of the strap and probably that its the same basic strap for every single watch they produce (minus the seiji) rather than making any extra considerations to make it a more complete package. The work they put into their hiroshige straps is telling that the company is able to put more thought into this portion of the design though they are either a) happy with the current level effort and want to charge more for Accessories (understandable) or b) the company they outsource to is not ready to scale up toKurono requirements.

(I bet everyone on this thread would not be complaining about the watch strap IF kurono decided to ship each of the watches with a one of the hiroshige straps style straps with the distinctive katana edge (without the poem etched into it a - even though I know that’s the point of the hiroshige design, just making a general point about the leather products they offer) no idea why kurono do what they do, just having a friendly conversation about our silly hobby!


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## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

I find the leather strap is acceptable with appropriate thickness and softness. The buckle looks too generic and crown can have more details in terms of design. While many other microbrands and after-market straps offer QR spring bars, Kurono could consider to include such feature so owners can minimise scratching the lugs for strap changing. The matte surface of the dial is common and it is also found in seiko blue hole 200m diver. Agreed with others that the hardware is underwhelming at this pricepoint.

I feel, to fairly determine whether a watch is cheap or expensive, it should be compared with market offering and not only by personal standards. I am disappointed to see discussion by some fellow member here display shallow sarcasm.


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## Dr_MC (Feb 9, 2021)

Just when I've already lost hope that they would miss their original Nov-Dec estimate, this morning I've received my delivery notification for order #63XX. 

At this point I must confess that my original enthusiasm for the watch died down. From finding out about the watch, to seeing all the hype around its launch grow out of proportion, the whole ordering process, the ~9 month wait, all the pictures and reviews I watched, and some of the sour comments I've read in this forum, my excitement sort of faded.

Now that I received the notification however, there's a little bit of eagerness and interest growing back, and the fact that it may arrive by Xmas adds a bit of magic to the whole thing. I managed to order one of the grey Hiroshige straps that should arrive by Feb which will either be a great match to the Toki, or a disastrous one.

Either way, it's been quite an experience. Fingers crossed there are no QC issues.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Glad to hear that, mine is 65xx and still nothing, yet the initial estimate was also Nov/Dec, maybe it will. be shipped next week.


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## Tokyo321 (May 22, 2021)

Mine is 66xx and I was told by Kurono that they are on track to deliver mine as per the original ETA (Nov/Dec). There's less than half of this month left, so we'll see if they can keep their promise.


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## BRAUN XXIII (May 16, 2020)

Dr_MC said:


> At this point I must confess that my original enthusiasm for the watch died down. From finding out about the watch, to seeing all the hype around its launch grow out of proportion, the whole ordering process, the ~9 month wait, all the pictures and reviews I watched, and some of the sour comments I've read in this forum, my excitement sort of faded.


Totally agree. The wait is just too long leading to subsided passion. Sometimes I do not understand the rationale of my purchase. Worse, while waiting for it, the continuous roll-out of other models just make it even more unbearable.


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## Dr_MC (Feb 9, 2021)

BRAUN XXIII said:


> I am not referring to the design but the deeper salmon colour towards the centre of dial. Since you mentioned about design, I feel the design offers very similar feel like an Orient bambino or thinner bezel-less seiko 5. To me, I felt underwhelmed at first handling the watch at first but it does give out an elegance aura thanks to its simple dial and 3 reflective rings machined near the dial rim. At this price point, the crown and buckle can be more detailed in design.
> 
> My question about the deeper tone on dial centre is to gather owners' opinions about how they feel about it. Frankly I was surprised to see it at first when I examined the watch upon receipt. It does not seem to be a defect but I guess it could be caused by the drilling at the centre, causing a change of gradient of the dial. After contemplating for 2 days and seeing the same things from some of the toki photos from fellow members here, my though has settled down and feel it is largely acceptable since the difference is very subtle. I just want to check if other owners feel it is ok.


While looking at countless pictures I see a darker tone in some shots, but could be a picture artifact and/or dependent on the light source. Below I put together an example from recent pics in this thread (credit to @seokpyo and @MojoS) which shows the difference.

Is that what you're referring to, or is it something else? Curious if you've managed to capture it in pictures.


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## surfblue (Dec 25, 2017)

Received a tracking number this morning on order 62XX.


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

BRAUN XXIII said:


> I am not referring to the design but the deeper salmon colour towards the centre of dial. Since you mentioned about design, I feel the design offers very similar feel like an Orient bambino or thinner bezel-less seiko 5. To me, I felt underwhelmed at first handling the watch at first but it does give out an elegance aura thanks to its simple dial and 3 reflective rings machined near the dial rim. At this price point, the crown and buckle can be more detailed in design.
> 
> My question about the deeper tone on dial centre is to gather owners' opinions about how they feel about it. Frankly I was surprised to see it at first when I examined the watch upon receipt. It does not seem to be a defect but I guess it could be caused by the drilling at the centre, causing a change of gradient of the dial. After contemplating for 2 days and seeing the same things from some of the toki photos from fellow members here, my though has settled down and feel it is largely acceptable since the difference is very subtle. I just want to check if other owners feel it is ok.


its really p to you personally isn't it? if you decide you dont' like it I'm sure you'll easily find someone willing to take it and you really haven't lost any money


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## golffoxtrot (Aug 28, 2019)

yeah I think i'm a 64xx and also got an email last week


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I received tracking today for 65xx, unfortunately very unrealistic to receive it this year considering all non working days during holidays and also that going through customs will take several days


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## Dr_MC (Feb 9, 2021)

Mine was supposed to be delivered tomorrow but it's been "on hold" in Singapore for the past 3 days, says DHL cannot move it until issues are solved... 🤷‍♂️ 
The fun never ends!


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## fiskadoro (Sep 2, 2015)

Finally, my Kurono showed up today (order 62xx), just in time for the Holidays! It's a very nice package overall.

Admittedly, my enthusiasm had waned a bit what with the long wait, but now it's here I like the Toki very much and it will definitely fit a niche in my collection when I want to grab something a bit more dressy than usual.

Not-so-great shot in some artificial light...


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## Raindrops (Sep 11, 2020)

Received my Toki. The strap which I had previously thought was ‘cheap-looking’ in online pics is surprisingly good. It is just thick enough to feel comfortable and looks much better in real life.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

I've paid all taxes today, but unfortunately I will get the watch on 29th, because of 5 days holiday for Christmas. It is on hold until next Wednesday. The watch looks really amazing, so impatient


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

Raindrops said:


> Received my Toki. The strap which I had previously thought was ‘cheap-looking’ in online pics is surprisingly good. It is just thick enough to feel comfortable and looks much better in real life.
> View attachment 16316075
> View attachment 16316077
> View attachment 16316078
> View attachment 16316078


Could not agree more. Said it earlier on that thread, the strap works well and looks much better in person. 
Enjoy the watch! It is a pretty unique one..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## franksf (Apr 12, 2012)

Speaking of in person 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tokyo321 (May 22, 2021)

Just received my Toki today (order # 66XX). Will open it tomorrow, Christmas day. 

Although I've been waiting for it to arrive for months, it's kind of nice that it got delivered on Christmas eve. It's my present to myself.


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## Dr_MC (Feb 9, 2021)

Finally received mine as well, just on time. Really enjoyed the unboxing experience, and seeing it live is quite unique-- indeed pictures cannot capture the ever changing dial. 

One question I had to the other Toki owners is about the caseback. In the few pics I've seen it looked nicely aligned, with the text horizontal and the 6 holes aligned. Mine however is a bit crooked. Does anyone else's have this 'feature' or would this be a QC issue?


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## disco_nug (Jul 27, 2018)

Reporting in - a 65xx. Received today - Changed the strap straight away but am impressed


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Dr_MC said:


> One question I had to the other Toki owners is about the caseback. In the few pics I've seen it looked nicely aligned, with the text horizontal and the 6 holes aligned. Mine however is a bit crooked. Does anyone else's have this 'feature' or would this be a QC issue?


It is normal, the back is screwed in, so the angle might vary.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Received mine today, absolutely love it.


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## ZenInk315 (Jun 26, 2021)

I’m keeping an eye on the timing of mine (arrived Monday) — it does pretty well so far (maybe -5) considering the stated accuracy of the 90S5 is -10 to +30.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

It is +7 for the first 24h  Pretty good I think.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

And I must say I really like the strap, it is very high quality leather, but no Kurono branding on it, or the buckle for that matter, witch is kinda strange. I've just bought a Colareb light blue Capri strap too, which I hope would match the dial color perfectly. I have another Colareb strap and find its quality exceptional considering its price is pretty moderate.


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## Gray08 (Dec 31, 2021)

Dr_MC said:


> Finally received mine as well, just on time. Really enjoyed the unboxing experience, and seeing it live is quite unique-- indeed pictures cannot capture the ever changing dial.
> 
> One question I had to the other Toki owners is about the caseback. In the few pics I've seen it looked nicely aligned, with the text horizontal and the 6 holes aligned. Mine however is a bit crooked. Does anyone else's have this 'feature' or would this be a QC issue?
> 
> View attachment 16318466


Mine was nicely aligned.
But.. I have an even worse ?QC issue.. my watch dial seems scratched over the edges of concentric circles. Does anyone have similar flaws or is it just me? Attached are the pictures (it's more obvious under naked eyes as compared to pictures)


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## Gray08 (Dec 31, 2021)

Gray08 said:


> Mine was nicely aligned.
> But.. I have an even worse ?QC issue.. my watch dial seems scratched over the edges of concentric circles. Does anyone have similar flaws or is it just me? Attached are the pictures (it's more obvious under naked eyes as compared to pictures)
> View attachment 16332650
> 
> ...


Not really trying to be fussy about it, but the rough finishing issue isn't really mentioned/seen throughout all the reviews and pic over multiple forums.. just wanted to counter check with you guys if this is acceptable QC or mine is an exception..


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Gray08 said:


> Not really trying to be fussy about it, but the rough finishing issue isn't really mentioned/seen throughout all the reviews and pic over multiple forums.. just wanted to counter check with you guys if this is acceptable QC or mine is an exception..


Are you sure that’s not just a reflection since it seems to always be over the edges of the circles? It’s also odd that the reflection is directly across from a light spot on the crystal in your last two images ….this is what believes me to believe it’s a reflection. Maybe try looking at it without a spotlight or direct light on it.

If you think it’s a QC issue, why not just reach out to them and see what they say?


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## Gray08 (Dec 31, 2021)

christianj said:


> Are you sure that’s not just a reflection since it seems to always be over the edges of the circles? If you think it’s a QC issue, why not just reach out to them and see what they say?


Definitely sure it wasn't.. it's visible regardless of angle and light source directions.. that's why I mentioned it's not as visible in picture.. anyway I just wanted to enquire if anyone have the same issue and accepted it as it is.. I've message kurono directly, still awaiting their reply..


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

Gray08 said:


> Definitely sure it wasn't.. it's visible regardless of angle and light source directions.. that's why I mentioned it's not as visible in picture.. anyway I just wanted to enquire if anyone have the same issue and accepted it as it is.. I've message kurono directly, still awaiting their reply..


I think asking them is the best direction and it will be interesting to hear their response. Happy New Year! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

No issues with mine. At all. Even the back is perfectly aligned.


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## ZenInk315 (Jun 26, 2021)

Gray08 said:


> Not really trying to be fussy about it, but the rough finishing issue isn't really mentioned/seen throughout all the reviews and pic over multiple forums.. just wanted to counter check with you guys if this is acceptable QC or mine is an exception..


I don’t have any marks between the rings —with a loupe I just see some rough edging of those rings in some places. Nothing that bothers me.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Actually mine is far more precise than I initially thought, +25 secs in 5 days


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## Dr_MC (Feb 9, 2021)

Gray08 said:


> Mine was nicely aligned.
> But.. I have an even worse ?QC issue.. my watch dial seems scratched over the edges of concentric circles. Does anyone have similar flaws or is it just me? Attached are the pictures (it's more obvious under naked eyes as compared to pictures)


I'm not able to see anything like this on mine with the naked eye. I refuse to take a macro shot, some things better remain unseen 

If it bothers you I'd suggest getting in touch with them, they are quite responsive.

I asked about my misaligned caseback, they told me it's "extremely rare, but the caseback misalignment is within tolerance..." which is a bit of a bummer but, on the flip side, now I have an "extremely rare" Toki, collector's item


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Blue agave and kinda Seiji-ish 









too blue and colourful in this picture I think, but in different lighting it changes much


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## Sarosto (Aug 6, 2014)

Just got my shipment notification (finally). For whoever is still waiting, I was high 69##, so we should be near the end now


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## watchdudelikeswatch (Dec 1, 2018)

I got one of these. First Kurono. I love the dimensions and weight to it and Japanese heritage, but just not sure I love the watch overall. Probably going to sell.


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

watchdudelikeswatch said:


> I got one of these. First Kurono. I love the dimensions and weight to it and Japanese heritage, but just not sure I love the watch overall. Probably going to sell.


I love it, when I first unboxed it I was not impressed, but after wearing it for a month now it is growing more and more on me, there is something very special and exclusive about this watch.


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## watchdudelikeswatch (Dec 1, 2018)

svetoslav said:


> I love it, when I first unboxed it I was not impressed, but after wearing it for a month now it is growing more and more on me, there is something very special and exclusive about this watch.


Maybe I’ll get there! I do really love the dial. Have always really wanted a pinkish/salmon dial which was a big reason I jumped at this one.


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## Sarosto (Aug 6, 2014)

I'd say this is rather nice...
















Inviato dal mio Pixel 6 Pro utilizzando Tapatalk


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Trippy new strap


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## svetoslav (Jan 21, 2014)

Kinda don't like this strap, really


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Trippy new strap
> 
> View attachment 16403865


I've been a big fan and also to some extent defender of them when others were critical but this needs to be pointed out! If you buy a strap be prepared to wait AFTER they send the strap since they use Singapore Post. They charge $17.50 for shipment and now they are saying shipments can take 4-8 weeks (while Delugs uses a DHL padded envelope for shipments out of Singapore for $13.50 which arrives in 4 days). Who in the world decides to use a shipping service that can take 4-8 weeks after customers have waited several months on a strap?


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## gyrotourbillon007 (Aug 18, 2017)

christianj said:


> If you buy a strap be prepared to wait AFTER they send the strap since they use Singapore Post


Has KT swapped to SG Post for straps?


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Hiroshige strap finally arrived. I swapped the buckle in from the original black strap that is almost unusable otherwise. This one is a big difference in terms of softness and finish.


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## christianj (Jul 14, 2010)

gyrotourbillon007 said:


> Has KT swapped to SG Post for straps?


They did! And it hasn't been a positive experience for the price! 17 days transit and MIA since day 2 from a tracking perspective.



nitron135 said:


> Hiroshige strap finally arrived.


Just out of curiosity...how long did the shipping take for yours?

I finally got mine yesterday, 17 days after I got the shipping notification. Wasn't expecting it to arrive since the envelope was sent via Singapore Post (slow boat to China express mail) and had dropped off the radar 2 days after it was processed by Singapore Post. I never had any ability to track it on the USPS site so kind of weird that it was in my mailbox yesterday. Not happy at all that for $17.50 shipping they used Singapore Post! If Delugs can send a strap from Singapore for $13 with DHL and get it here in 4 days it's completely unacceptable to make someone wait 2.5 weeks for a strap that's been on order for several months. Lesson learned and played a role in not ordering the newest strap release last week.....also kind of fugly anyway.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

christianj said:


> They did! And it hasn't been a positive experience for the price! 17 days transit and MIA since day 2 from a tracking perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Probably took 2~3 weeks? Not waiting by the mailbox so not sure. Feels like ordered months ago. I think of this brand like kickstarter, order and cross fingers. Guessing that most people on this forum aren’t short on straps, I am guilty of that certainly .


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Few more in daylight. It has a bit of a pink within the lighter parts that brings it together better than you’d expect. More restrained than the latest offering, maybe the closest match of the Hiroshige colors for this dial.


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## Churlish (Oct 9, 2013)

For those still waiting, 70xx just arrived at my place today! Shipped quickly and cleared into the US without issue. 

I'd like to thank my over-cautious now-former credit card company for my place in line.


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## nitron135 (Jul 6, 2017)

Have to report that the strap is exceptionally soft and comfortable. Certainly something to consider as more are released.


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