# Mad Cow vs. Spacemaster XLume



## JorgeG (Dec 21, 2009)

Dear all,

I have been reading this forum for quite some time and find it very helpful. I have also been dreaming about getting a Ball Watch for a little over a year now. The issue now is which one? My heart was set on the Mad Cow and now the Spacemaster XLume has arrived. I do not live close to an AD that carries both models, and would appreciate everyone's thoughts on the subject. 

1. Size. I know that the 42mm Mad Cow's ("MC") dial looks slightly smaller than the Spacemaster XLume's ("SM") 41.5mm because of the latter's thinner bezel and expanded dial real estate. The MC, however is slightly thicker than the SM. The question is, is the difference significant side by side? Would a smaller-looking 42mm look better on my 8'' wrist, or would the larger-looking 41.5mm look bigger and better? Can anyone post a side-by-side picture of both?

2. Bracelet. I also know (after reading about it here) that some complaints have arisen as to the SM's bracelet. Can anyone comment on comfort issues with the MC's bracelet? Have SM users effectively resolved their comfort issues by adding/removing links?

3. Detail and Finish. It is readily apparent that all Ball watches are very detail-oriented and are very well finished. (a) With respect to the MC, is the white margin of the tritium tubes is more emphasized or thicker, making the numbers look bigger than the SM? or is there a difference in the length of the tritium tubes in the numbers (I can see that as far as the non-numbered hour markers, the tubes of the SM are clearly longer than the MC's). (b) Additionally, the MC has a beautiful guilloche on the dial and the SM seems to have just a plain black/white dial. Can anyone comment on whether the fact that the SM has more tritium tubes makes up for the lack of guilloche? 

4. Glow. I know the SM has a much higher millicurie than the MC (T100 vs. T25), but other than the amount of tritium tubes, do the SM tubes glow stronger than the MC? In other words, does the SM have a higher concentration of tritium gas in its tubes than the MC, making the tubes of the SM glow brighter than the MC's? What about the Superluminova in the bezel? It seems (from the pictures that I have seen thus far) that the white Superluminova of the SM's bezel glows much brighter than the green one of the MC. Is it just the color, or does the SM bezel have more Superluminova present than the MC bezel? 

5. Crown. I read (in this forum) that some Ball owners have complained about the locking mechanisms in the crowns of various Ball Hydrocarbon models, unlocking by themselves, or having a somewhat loose crown. What can the members of this forum say of the MC crown (and locking mechanism) vs. the SM crown (and locking mechanism)? Which one is better?

6. Scratch resistance/weight. I know that tritium weighs less than SS. First, can anyone specify what parts of the MC are Ti and what parts are SS? Second, is Ti more prone to scratching than the SS? Assuming that the answer is "yes," is it a noticeable difference or is it something that must be seen by a magnifying glass? Third, the weight. Is the SM much heavier than the MC? 

7. The million dollar question. If you had to chose between the MC or the SM, which one would you get and why?

Thank you all for taking the time to read this lengthy post. I would really appreciate your thoughts.

Best and Happy Holidays,

JorgeG


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## watchhound (Apr 16, 2006)

Jorge-

I have the regular Spacemaster and find it an exceptional watch. The one Ball dealer that I know of here in Miami does not have either of the Spacemasters. I am in S Miami - if you want to meet up for coffee at a local SB - would be glad to let you check out my Spacemaster. I cannot really compare it to the MC as I never owned one but I am very pleased with the Spacemaster and know they made a number of improvements.

I have had no issues with the clasp - I find it very comfortable.


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## viper_ (Dec 13, 2009)

JorgeG said:


> Dear all.....


Great questions there Jorge and a great thread! The reason I say this is because, believe it or not, I was about to start a new thread with the exact same topic and EXACTLY the same questions!!

The thing is that I live in India and you don't get Ball watches here nor I suppose anybody would've heard of them. So basically there is no way for me to actually see the watches before making a purchase. My brother who stays in NJ is due to come down here in Feb and I'm planning to ask him to get me one.

Everything is fine until this point, but the big dilemma is which one to buy?? I had my heart set on the MC and there was absolutely no confusion at all... and then the SM showed up o| !! I absolutely am in love with the SM-Glow now but the only thing that bothers me is the missing '3' ! If they had put the '3' in there like the MC and the day and date in similar fashion (which I seem to rather like), I would've bought it in a heartbeat!

Instead of starting a new thread and repeating all the queries posted by Jorge, I'll just add one of mine -


Does anybody else also feel that the missing '3' make the SM look very unsymmetrical??
Do any of the SM owners find the omitted digit agitating when they look at their watches at night or in total darkness??
TIA.


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

You may seek out Rob at Toppers post with comparison pictures of these two if you have not seen it. 

While I voted with my wallet for the X-Lume here are these key items to assist in your decision:

The MC has the day date window moved so the 3 is a full character. 

With 80 Tubes XL has the most lume in any ball watch to date.

Ti/SS (MC) verses all SS (XL), also a factor in the weight of the watch

Double clasp with single sided dive extension (MC) versus Butterfly with balanced dive extension.

Larger dial (XL) versus thicker bezel (MC)

XL is COSC Certified

MC comes with rubber dive strap

John verses Brian on the back of the watch

Old crown system (MC) verses new (XL)

Guilloche Dial verses smooth

42mm (XL) versus 43mm (XC)

OK that was all I could think of off the top of my head.


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## Timewaster (Nov 24, 2007)

viper_ said:


> I absolutely am in love with the SM-Glow now but the only thing that bothers me is the missing '3' ! If they had put the '3' in there like the MC and the day and date in similar fashion (which I seem to rather like), I would've bought it in a heartbeat!


Interesting, as that is one of the only things I dislike about the Mad Cow. The separated day and date windows (a design element used on some other Ball models as well) has never really sat right with me. Don't get me wrong though, the MC is an awesome piece. The separated day/date windows and the "rope" lume in the bezel are the only things I don't like about it.

So I voted Spacemaster X-lume, although I would note that I think the X-lume looks a little less dressy than the Spacemaster, and I would add further that I probably wouldn't wear either one (or the Mad Cow) for dress purposes anyway.

Regards,
-Jeff


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## JorgeG (Dec 21, 2009)

Thank you all for your replies thus far. Please keep'em coming!

Watchhound, can you contact me privately so that we can set up a meeting? I would really appreciate checking out the SM live.

Samantor, how can I see the Toppers post you refer to. Can you provide a link?

Viper and Timewaster, I like the "3" in the MC, and think its a factor when considering the SM/XL and don't really mind the separated day/date windows. 


Best,

JorgeG


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

Sorry I though he had a Mad Cow but it was the white dial classic not a MC (Thread is Photo essay Spacemaster verses Trieste). I'll see if I can find a photo.


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## viper_ (Dec 13, 2009)

I have a huge problem with pics, I see a good MC pic and I fall in love with it, and when I see a good SM pic I find myself badly lusting after it... maybe I'm just a li'l too mixed up in the head :-( !!

You decide:









































































[Pics taken from WUS and other places on the net, the excellent SM pics are actually Samanator's]


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## scottw44 (Aug 16, 2006)

Great thread Jorge. I voted for the SM. Especially in the regular version with the guilloche outer ring, I find it having an element of class.

And as for ruggedness, it can't be beat.

And what's dressier than blue lumeb-)


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## JorgeG (Dec 21, 2009)

Thank you Scott and thanks again to all that have voted and replied. While I do appreciate that the majority has voted for the Spacemaster, however, I feel that many of my initial questions remain unanswered. For example:

1. Does Ti scratch more than SS? Does it make a difference in anything other than weight?

2. Does the Spacemaster have a higher concentration of tritium in its tubes?

3. Does anyone out there have a side by side picture of the MadCow and the Spacemaster?

Looking forward to all of your answers.

Happy and healthy new year to everyone!

Jorge


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## scottw44 (Aug 16, 2006)

1. Does Ti scratch more than SS? Does it make a difference in anything other than weight?

_Yes, ti is more likely to scratch. SS is also more easily buffed._

2. Does the Spacemaster have a higher concentration of tritium in its tubes?

_No...it has 80 tubes to get to the total of 100 millicure. What it has is more tubes than say the Cow._

3. Does anyone out there have a side by side picture of the MadCow and the Spacemaster?

_I have an EHC I that I gave to my Dad and I can post side by sides but no Cow, sorry._

Great questions!

Happy and healthy new year to everyone right back at ya!!!


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

I'd like to comment on the Ti versus SS thing with regards to finish and durability. SS will actually polish up more that Ti but since both are satin brush finishes on these watches this is really not a big difference. Ti is actually harder that SS but it oxidizes with a slight green tint. A good deal of times the scratches that you see on Ti are only in this oxidation which can be removed and generally not seen after doing so. This is a good deal more maintenance to keep it looking fresh. There are many good articles here on the various forums at WUS on this subject if you search for them.


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## watchhound (Apr 16, 2006)

JorgeG said:


> Thank you all for your replies thus far. Please keep'em coming!
> 
> Watchhound, can you contact me privately so that we can set up a meeting? I would really appreciate checking out the SM live.
> 
> ...


Jorge - PM sent.


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## yenfoolun (Feb 12, 2008)

i had handle both last week in the nearby ad...

if u like the heavy watch... get full st steel mc

if u like the lume... sm glow is your choice... both bezel n dial is glowing !

if u like to wear your watch faster, go for mc... butterfly is difficult to wear!

if money is your concern... then mad cow win your vote!

nothing is perfect... which 1 u like.... go for it... u wont go wrong with ball!


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## All Balls! (Nov 2, 2007)

White dial I'd go with the MC. Black dial I'd take the XL


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

Here is a set Rob put together with a Space Master White Dial and a Mad Cow. Enjoy!


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## putnam dan (Sep 24, 2009)

samanator said:


>


Add this one and you have the full set. I was thinking of selling but now not so sure.


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## JorgeG (Dec 21, 2009)

Thank you Yenfoolon and All Balls for your comments. Samantor and Putnam Dan, thanks for the awesome pics. Watchhound, thanks for the PM and sorry for not contacting you this weekend, but I have been hard hit by this "Florida" weather!

Unfortunately, I have not made up my mind yet. The lume and the real estate (larger dial) of the SM are very appealing, but the all-dial guilloche and the symmetrical "3" remain very very sexy...The force is strong with both models!!! I wish that all my problems were like this one, i.e., choosing between two beauties 

To all Ball owners, fans, and afficionados, please keep posting!

Best,

JorgeG


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

I can offer a coffee shop meeting sometime if you ever wish to see an X-Lume.


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## waterbrook (Jan 19, 2008)

Jorge,
I have not owned either of these, but I've handled the MadCow. I've only seen the spacemasters in photos here and elsewhere online. My choice would be the Spacemaster. Not to bash the cow, but I've always felt that dial was too small relative to the amount of metal around it. The redesign of the hydrocarbon series with the spacemaster having a relatively larger dial makes it very appealing, IMO. Secondly, I love the blue lume in both of the spacemasters. 

Mitch


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## AJ Brown (Nov 15, 2008)

This likely won't settle things at all but I tried on a Mad Cow for the first time just a couple days ago. Unfortunately I don't have an AD in the city where I live, but I was skiing in Ellicottville, NY, and saw a dealer with a sign in the window on the main street. 

Pictures can't possibly do justice to these watches. What a fantastic hunk of steel! I was very, very impressed with the build quality, the solidity, and the beautifully brushed surfaces. Omega, Breitling et al. have NOTHING on Ball. 

Even though that watch is slightly smaller than what I normally look for, it has a presence that more than makes up for it being less than the 44 or 45mm I usually wear. That being said, if it were up to me (and someday soon it will be!) I'd get the Spacemaster for the larger dial surface.


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## jarhead024 (Mar 24, 2009)

I have owned a white dial EHCII CHrono for a year and I have tried on the Mad Cow and the Spacemaster at the AD. I would agree that the Mad Cow white dial is fantastic but the new case design of the SM with the flatter bezel and additional dial area really enhance the design and appeal to me. The down-side of the old style EHC case is the very poor bezel lume ring. The new superluminova bezel lume rocks compared to the pathetic lume of luminova impregnated rubber of the old case. It would be super if Ball would update the bezel of the EHCII series with the new lume design. With that problem corrected, the Mad Cow (and every other EHCII model)would be instantly more desirable to educated buyers. I would send my EHCII chrono to Ball for the new bezel in a minute. Given all the comparisons the SM is the wise choice if you can live without the "3" .


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## pwong017 (May 7, 2009)

the lume on the spacemaster blows the mad cow away with all those tubes!!!!


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## JorgeG (Dec 21, 2009)

Dear all,

I was in Tampa last week and was able to visit Old Northeast Jewlers, and spent about 45 minutes comparing the SM Xlume and the MC.

I have to say that, in person, both watches look impressive, and instead of becoming easier, I find myself unable to decide between the two of them. For example, I really liked the larger dial of the SM Xlume and the higher concentration of tritium tubes, but was greatly dissapointed with both the bracelet and and the clasp. Specifically, the thinning bracelet made the watch look unbalanced and unappealing, and the clasp has to be locked in a particular order or it will not close properly. 

On the other hand, the bracelet and clasp of the MC looked awesome, but the dial looks slightly smaller. The guilloche looks great and the the "3" in tritium tubes makes the dial look more symetric. The numbers on the MC 9as well as the tritium tube markers) looked more etched than on the XLume. As has been stated repeatedly, the lume in the MC's bezel is almost none-existent (I am surprised that Ball has not offered to replace these with more efficient luminous bezel inserts). 

I attach two wrist shots (one with the MC taken and one with the Xlume) taken with my phone (not the best quality) and look forward to your opinions on size and look. As far as feel, both felt great!

Questions: 

1. To all Hydrocarbon wearers out there...do you find the watches to be too "tall" in relation to the size of the dial?

2. Can the SM's bracelet be replaced with, say, the Trieste's (which I believe the same as the MC's but all in SS).

3. Will Ball be releasing any new Hydrocarbons (other than a chronograph or TMT version of the SM) this year (either at or after Basel)? 

If Ball asked for my opinion, this is what I would suggest for the next Hydrocarbon in line: Keep's the MC's guilloche and bracelet/clasp styles, make the dial larger (perhaps 44mm?...I do not understand why Ball does not carry larger dials like other brands do), have a sligthly "flatter" case. I would also like to see a DLC (or other black) version of the bezel in future versions. 

As always, I look forward to your responses.

Best,

JorgeG


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## Mad Cow (Dec 14, 2007)

Had to vote... Mad Cow! What else would I say?:-d 

Anyway, the titanium and stainless combo has held up well to LOTS of abuse, and polishes up very nicely (I only manage to polish it once every 6 months or so), but looks great even when I let it go for a while.

Either way, you won't be disappointed.


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## JorgeG (Dec 21, 2009)

Mad Cow said:


> Had to vote... Mad Cow! What else would I say?:-d
> 
> Anyway, the titanium and stainless combo has held up well to LOTS of abuse, and polishes up very nicely (I only manage to polish it once every 6 months or so), but looks great even when I let it go for a while.
> 
> Either way, you won't be disappointed.


Mr. "Cow," it is truly an honor to have you chime in on my humble forum thread!!!!

You will be happy to know that I pulled the trigger on a Ball HC Mad Cow this week, and it should arrive next week!!!! Right before I pulled the order, I yelled "Vache Folle"!

The choice came down to this: The Mad Cow was the watch that lured me to this brand, and while the XLume may have more lume and an improved bezel, the guilloche, the "3" and the separated date, the more emphasized white border of the numbers, and the bracelet, can all be seen during the day (which is more important to me than nighttime readability). In short, the Mad Cow was the right choice for me!

I would, however, appreciate any input you could give on the SuperLuminova bezel insret. Do you know if Ball is planning on doing anything to replace those?

Again, thank you very much for stopping by and responding to my thread.

Best regards,

JorgeG


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## Mad Cow (Dec 14, 2007)

JorgeG said:


> Mr. "Cow," it is truly an honor to have you chime in on my humble forum thread!!!!
> 
> You will be happy to know that I pulled the trigger on a Ball HC Mad Cow this week, and it should arrive next week!!!! Right before I pulled the order, I yelled "Vache Folle"!
> 
> ...


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## brighter (Aug 31, 2010)

JorgeG said:


> 2. Can the SM's bracelet be replaced with, say, the Trieste's (which I believe the same as the MC's but all in SS).


I would like to know the answer to this as well.


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## Oklahoma (Feb 9, 2011)

brighter said:


> I would like to know the answer to this as well.


I know Rob has put the Mad Cow bracelet on one of the hydrocarbons i think it was the orbital but not sure. He said it fit fairly well but the screw holes had to be drilled to get an easier fit but wasnt hard to do. I know there is a thread around somewhere, will look around later for it.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


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## Horologic (Apr 26, 2012)

I wish the SM XL had the split day date and 3 like the MC.


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## bg002h (Mar 28, 2010)

Horologic said:


> I wish the SM XL had the split day date and 3 like the MC.


And applied Arabic numerals like the MC...


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## brighter (Aug 31, 2010)

Just replaced the Spacemaster stock bracelet with the one from my Mad Cow and currently loving it. May be my new favorite piece. Love having micro-adjustment again.


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## dinexus (Nov 18, 2012)

brighter said:


> Just replaced the Spacemaster stock bracelet with the one from my Mad Cow and currently loving it. May be my new favorite piece. Love having micro-adjustment again.


Needs pictures! Did you have to do any retro-fitting or drilling?


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

dinexus said:


> Needs pictures! Did you have to do any retro-fitting or drilling?


The MC bracelet was fit on the DQ not the Spacemaster. It required endlink modification to fit the DQ. I'm not aware of this bracelet being fit on a Spacemaster. It may go on without modification, but I don't know that for a fact.


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## brighter (Aug 31, 2010)

I'll see what I can do about snapping a cell pic or two in just a bit, but I was pleasantly surprised how it went together. No modification needed whatsoever to get the MC bracelet on the SMXL. However, putting th SMXL bracelet on the MC is a different story. You think you're in good shape until right at the end of assembly. The threaded dowel/pin goes through one lug just fine, through the end links too, but when attempting to insert it in the opposite end lug it just won't go. Perhaps the slightest drilling/widening of the lug(s) would remedy it but that task is "above my paygrade" as Mr.President would say. Currently trying to source an additional MC bracelet on the WTB forum but no luck yet; doubt there's much second-market interest for my Spacemaster bracelet but ya never know.


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

Great thanks for clearing this up. Toppers indicated that they can source new MC bracelets should you need one. Call Rob. I'll also note the XV and Magnate GMT have completely different end links so this would not work without a great deal of modification, if at all.


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## dinexus (Nov 18, 2012)

Wow, thanks for the photos! This is super tempting, as the micro-adjustment on the MC bracelet might be just what I need to get it to fit. The stock SM bracelet just didn't work out for me. 

And isn't the MC bracelet Ti? Would be significantly lighter than the SM one as well...


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## brighter (Aug 31, 2010)

dinexus said:


> And isn't the MC bracelet Ti? Would be significantly lighter than the SM one as well...


You are correct. Makes a big difference. Today was my first full day at the office wearing this combo and I really like it. Still a bit top-heavy compared to the stock Mad Cow setup (and I still prefer the way the MC wears because of the balance) but definitely doable. Does the extra tritium of the SM outweigh the guilloche dial of the MC on my short list? Tough call. I really like them both and I'd have a tough time picking a favorite.


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