# Omega Aqua Terra 8500 or Ball Engineer II Red label



## oldpalchamp (Jun 1, 2012)

I posted this in the Omega forum too, but wanted to see what kind of feedback I would get over here.
I love Omega watches. The Omega Aqua Terra 8500, in my opinion, is just a simply beautiful watch with a superior movement. It bridges the gap between sporty and dress, and I have always assumed it would be my next watch. But then I saw the Ball Engineer II Red Label, and quite frankly, thought I could get a very similar watch for about half the price. The problem is, if I got the Ball, I would probably still lust after the AT. I don't know what to do.

Any advice?


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## singlemalt_18 (Sep 26, 2012)

Home is where your Heart is...

I'll admit, the two watches are nearly identical to the eye, although the "red label" on a white dial adds a striking statement. The Ball may also hold the edge as a conversation starter. I would get the Ball with the grey dial, but as was stated in another thread, this IS a Ball forum.

At the risk of being accused of heresy, (and as someone who has "lusted" after the EII Arabic Chronometer for more than two years), I think you need to follow your heart. My new EII AC has arrived and I'm just trying to convince my wife to make sure it is something under the tree! If the thickness of your wallet will NOT keep you from lusting after the Omega, then I think you must go for the O. Don't cheat yourself, and don't cheat on your Ball!

Good Luck and Merry Christmas!

PS. If my wife does not pick up on my obvious hints, (I've taken her to the local AD to see it!), then I will have my revenge on Christmas morning when she opens a box and finds this:

Welcome to BALL Watch

The pic on the website doesn't do it justice; the grey dial, although not MOP, has much more translucence than the B&W rendering online... and it is the best choice to show off the diamonds!


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## ~tc~ (Dec 9, 2011)

I think this one comes down to your "need" for an in-house movement. The coaxial movement has some advantages, but IMHO, not enough to justify the price.

but if you feel you "need" an in-house movement, then it's a lot cheaper to just buy the AT to begin with.


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

If you buy the AT, you have no Ball


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## bg002h (Mar 28, 2010)

Well...the Ball dial is simpler and (IMHO) more classy...no cutesy arrow hands...no unneeded numbers (I've never needed the minute indices). You can read the Ball in the middle of the night (even if you didn't "charge" it). I'm guessing the Ball is cheaper by at least a few hundred bucks too (if not much more)...

To me (and my naive perspective) it's hands down Ball. Perhaps there is something really special inside that other watch...but I'm not aware of it...and it would have to be pretty darn special for me to care (like Cartier's ID Two...a lube free vacuum sealed no maintenance movement !).


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## timefleas (Oct 10, 2008)

Both are very similar, obviously, but Ball comes out on top for (1) price, (2) tritium lume, (3) a little flash of red on an otherwise dull dial, and (4) no minute numerals (I have never really understood why a dress watch would need minute numerals, especially when there are no hour numerals). The Omega scores a single point simply for being Omega--a tried and true brand.


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

I'm never certain how to respond to these type of threads where the watches are not really similar and there is a 2X+ price differential. Other than a passing resemblance dial wise these don't really match up well at all( size, intended use, other features...). Since the gap price wise is canyon wide comparing feature for feature just doesn't work. This one strictly goes to use, desire and depth of your money reserves. If you can afford the Omega then nothing else will work since you appear to have your heart set on it. If you can't then the Ball can give you some great features and a reasonably similar look. I suggest actually taking the time and play with a watch with a 8500 movement if you go the Omega route. I have a 8500 movement in my ProPlof and it has some things I like and some things I don't . I don't want to influence your opinion by saying anything more, I'll let you form your own opinion.


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## ~tc~ (Dec 9, 2011)

samanator said:


> 8500 movement in my ProPlof and it has some things I like and some things I don't .


It's a hacking 3 hand movement with quick-set date - what is there to like or not like?


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## darknight (Jan 8, 2012)

i was having the same thoughts as you a few months back. a grey AT or a grey red label. the AT caught my eye first before i narrow down to the cheaper alternative, the ball red label. looks identical, tubes, and most importantly, the cheaper price. so i went to get the 43mm red label.
but it didnt work out in the end, after looking and holding a AT in my hands, the difference of the two is really too much. the finishing, the bracelet, the dial, the movement, sorry to say this in a ball forum. do not flame me but the quality of red label is just not on par with omega AT.
ball red label is still a nice and valuable watch to, but if you are comparing omega AT to that, i suggest you save up a bit more and get the AT. or at least try out the AT and feel it in your hands, and make a decision later.


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## Trekkie (Feb 16, 2011)

I have the red label on the brown strap (with ball deployment buckle). Like a fine wine, it's aging gracefully looking better week by week. It didn't catch my eye until my dealer showed me the watch and my wife agreed to the purchase from the other side of jewelry store. It's classic, it's clean, and it's not a watch you see everywhere. Hence, more exciting than the other brand although their pedigree might be better. Also, when it comes to service, Ball have had some amazing turnaround times for the 4 pieces that they serviced. Keeps good time, good conversation starter, and, a show of good taste (in my opinion). Good luck!


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## 3th3r (Jul 20, 2011)

oldpalchamp said:


> ... *if I got the Ball, I would probably still lust after the AT.* I don't know what to do.


I think you do know. If you want to keep lusting after the AT, then get the Ball.


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## 92gli (Nov 18, 2011)

darknight said:


> but it didnt work out in the end, after looking and holding a AT in my hands, the difference of the two is really too much. the finishing, the bracelet, the dial, the movement, sorry to say this in a ball forum. do not flame me but the quality of red label is just not on par with omega AT.
> ball red label is still a nice and valuable watch to, but if you are comparing omega AT to that, i suggest you save up a bit more and get the AT. or at least try out the AT and feel it in your hands, and make a decision later.


Exactly. The AT isn't more expensive just because they can, It's a much nicer watch. The Ball is nice too though. Just a different level. Its really not a fair question.


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## bg002h (Mar 28, 2010)

I'd be curious to see the AT watch. Pictures never tell the whole story (especially manufacturer pictures). 

On a feature / gross appearance basis, I prefer the Red Label.


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

My honest thoughts about the matter is that the AT has a better look and feel, maybe the overall finish too, and it's Omega.

But when it comes to timekeeping and movement, I didn't see any evidence about the 8500's superiority against the 2836-2 COSC, both are COSC certified and run within COSC specs. And Omega recommends a 5-year service interval, just like any ETA based watch.

So if you want a simple, clean dial watch, go with the AT, if you want a day-date watch, go with the RL, they aren't on the same level of price, functionality, brand recognition...

If you don't know which watch to buy and they look a bit the same for you, I'd say go with the AT, it will keep better resale value, you could sell it next year and buy a Ball later.


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## Fatz028 (Mar 14, 2009)

If it was up to me. I would go with Omega. I am a fan of Ball Watch. But I like the look of the Omega better then the Ball.


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## Perseus (Mar 25, 2010)

92gli said:


> Exactly. The AT isn't more expensive just because they can, It's a much nicer watch. The Ball is nice too though. Just a different level. Its really not a fair question.


Well said. The AT costs more than twice what Ball is charging. That's not to say the Red Label is not a quality watch but the AT is in a different league. I know Mido, Tissot and a few others have something similar in style to the AT.


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## HPoirot (Jan 31, 2011)

oldpalchamp said:


> ... The problem is, if I got the Ball, I would probably still lust after the AT. I don't know what to do...


Shouldn't this be answer enough for you?

If you settle just so you can spend less on a watch, chances are you'll end up spending much more than if you had just followed your heart.

Not only will the Ball not make you as happy as the AT did, there's a high chance you will find yourself selling it at a loss to buy the AT.

Happened to me.


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## bg002h (Mar 28, 2010)

Buy what you want to keep...but hold each watch first! I'm not an expert watch buyer, but, I feel there is sooooo much to be learned by physically interacting with a watch that simply can not be ascertained by photography (especially manufacturer photos) and discussion...although photos and discussion can really help prepare you for your in the metal assessment.


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## RogerP (Mar 7, 2007)

Other than similar styling, these two aren't really comparable. The AT stands head and shoulders above the Ball. You said it yourself - if you got the Ball, you'd still lust after the AT. I'd wager the reverse is not true. There's your answer.


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## 92gli (Nov 18, 2011)

lvt said:


> And Omega recommends a 5-year service interval, just like any ETA based watch.


Omega recommends 7-10 years for the 8500. My local boutique says 10, but email responses from omega's us service center have said 7-10.


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## Motoair (Dec 27, 2012)

Just took delivery of a Ball Red Label GMT today. The user manual was a scratched CD that won't load. The Ball seems like an OK watch, but now that I've had the Ball experience I wish I'd gone Omega. If Omega had tritium it would be a no brainer!!!!


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

92gli said:


> Omega recommends 7-10 years for the 8500. My local boutique says 10, but email responses from omega's us service center have said 7-10.


Don't take those responses serious, 5 years is the reasonable service interval for any mechanical watch movement.

The 10 years service interval the boutique told you is a wrong information, it refers to the Co-axial escapement's estimated service interval and has nothing to do with your watch's own service interval, other critical parts in a watch movement like mainspring, gear train, auto-winding mechanism... need a regular service interval.


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## samanator (Mar 8, 2008)

lvt said:


> Don't take those responses serious, 5 years is the reasonable service interval for any mechanical watch movement.
> 
> The 10 years service interval the boutique told you is a wrong information, it refers to the Co-axial escapement's estimated service interval and has nothing to do with your watch's own service interval, other critical parts in a watch movement like mainspring, gear train, auto-winding mechanism... need a regular service interval.


Actually there a a host of things done to the 8500 and derivations of the movement above and beyond the coaxial escapement that extend the service period as noted. Since I'm away right now I don't have my pile of WT magazines that give a list of these. I know one is the use of DLC coatings in select areas lowering the need for oiling there and thus extending the period. Maybe when Rob is back he can better comment.


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## lvt (Sep 15, 2009)

samanator said:


> Actually there a a host of things done to the 8500 and derivations of the movement above and beyond the coaxial escapement that extend the service period as noted. Since I'm away right now I don't have my pile of WT magazines that give a list of these. I know one is the use of DLC coatings in select areas lowering the need for oiling there and thus extending the period. Maybe when Rob is back he can better comment.


As you said, the barrels are DLC coated to reduce wears / friction, but I found it useless because we usually don't change the barrels in a watch when it's serviced, be it Co-ax or not


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## bhcb (Dec 13, 2012)

Both are very nice watches, the ball is a little let down in the style of it's bracelet, I upgraded mine with a aftermarket Oyster, it really makes a difference. Might try a Jubilee on it next.


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## bg002h (Mar 28, 2010)

That bracelet looks really nice. Off to google Jubilee next.


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## bg002h (Mar 28, 2010)

According to the site I grabbed this from, these are "president", "oyster", and "jubilee" (bottom to top)








See: http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/matthew_wild/6830822563/


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## PatagoniaDan (Aug 20, 2012)

You must handle both before you make a decision. I was dead set on the Ball purely from pictures but after handling both there was a world of difference IMO. The dial of the Omega is particularly beautiful in person and pictures don't do it justice. The bracelet of the Ball was a little suspect given its price point. Both great watches and you must decide for yourself, but again, see and handle both in person before dropping that type of coin. 

In reference to the service interval, for my PO I was told by the boutique the service interval was 7-10 years which was also confirmed by a gent at Omega NJ service center.


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## ~tc~ (Dec 9, 2011)

PatagoniaDan said:


> The bracelet of the Ball was a little suspect given its price point.


While I have not handled a Red Label on bracelet, this statement is contrary to my experience, and many others. One thing Ball does VERY well (and Omega typically not so well) is bracelets.

i agree about the Aqua Terra face - especially in blue.


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## PatagoniaDan (Aug 20, 2012)

Maybe it was a combination of the design, I'm sure it's sturdy and will hold up well in the long term, but the bracelet didn't do it for me. I didn't end up getting the Ball or the AT. The AT is really expensive and I might consider dropping that type of coin if it was a one and only watch but I suffer from the same disease as all you guys lol. The Ball was appealing due to its price point but I decided to hold off.

By the way for those interested there's one in the sales corner.



~tc~ said:


> While I have not handled a Red Label on bracelet, this statement is contrary to my experience, and many others. One thing Ball does VERY well (and Omega typically not so well) is bracelets.
> 
> i agree about the Aqua Terra face - especially in blue.


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## xvfasttrip (Nov 13, 2008)

This is a Ball forum but for one I join many brand forum and Omega is one of my fav brand. But the Ball wins in this comparo for me.


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## Uhrentraeger (Jul 16, 2012)

Does the Ball bracelet have a micro adjustment? Otherwise it could be hit and miss if ones wrist size does not conform; no matter how good or bad it may be engineered. I think making a steel bracelet fit around the wrist is more important than say a leather strap.

Btw: I have never handled a Omega nor I am interested in Omega watches nor their bracelets. I am just interested in the Ball bracelet.


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## captainh0wdy (Mar 27, 2013)

As someone who has both these watches I can say that there is very little to choose from, yes the AT has a very nice movement and has the bigger brand behind it, but the Red Label actually has a more interest case design and offers a little more in the way of wrist presence due to the extra height and even though it is slightly smaller than the 41.5mm Omega.

But just to throw a spanner in the works, here's a pic of the AT on the Red Label bracelet.


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