# Cartier corner cutting disappointment



## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

Hello, 

For the past 2 years I've be yearning for the Santos 100 with the quick release steel bracelet - reference WSSA0029.
I tried the watch on 2 separate occasions in Cartier boutiques...it looked amazing on my wrist - perfect weight, nice proportions and beautifully clean no date dial.
My mind was made up - I found a reputable dealer on Chrono24 selling the watch for a reasonable price and was ready to pull the trigger.But I decided to wait with the purchase for my birthday which was due in one month at that time.

On one of my nights out with my wife we went to a restaurant that was near a Cartier boutique.
After dinner we decided wanted to go inside and have a look at the watch one last time - I wanted to try it on the leather bracelet Cartier adds to the purchase.
I removed the Easy Link bracelet to put the leather bracelet on - and then I've seen it:
The side of the case that's hidden behind the bracelet end link had a rough unfinished surface. It had clearly visible machine marks - very ugly and cheap looking.
I thought for a second that it might be a defect - so I took of the other side of the bracelet. It was the same.

From a watch that costs 7000$ I was expecting much more - this ruined it for me and I won't be buying the watch.
Is this "cut costs where no-one is looking" approach a thing with Cartier ?


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Was that the only one or did you look at others and how many?


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

I've looked at another one since at a different dealer in a different country - It's the same.
They just leave this area of the watch unfinished with all the machine marks from grinding - because "who looks". Richemont greediness!


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## Covenant (Apr 22, 2009)

shaiko said:


> The side of the case that's hidden behind the bracelet end link had a rough unfinished surface. It had clearly visible machine marks - very ugly and cheap looking.
> I thought for a second that it might be a defect - so I took of the other side of the bracelet. It was the same.


To be fair, this could also be the result of the steel end-links of the bracelet rubbing against the side of the case. My Omega SMP looks rather unfinished between the lugs when I remove the bracelet too, but I put this down to rubbing contact between two pieces of steel rather than machining marks.


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## Watchman Dan (Jun 29, 2014)

That is sad to know. I agree that for the money and prestige of the Brand it should be finished. Especially with the quick change for straps. I imagine if you purchase it on a strap it would be finished? Rolex is sold almost exclusively on bracelet, yet they do a basic brush finish in between the lugs. Cartier has been known to cut corners on some lower priced models. The strap clasp on the solo models are only tumble finished, not polished! Even Seikos polish the clasp!


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

Covenant said:


> To be fair, this could also be the result of the steel end-links of the bracelet rubbing against the side of the case. My Omega SMP looks rather unfinished between the lugs when I remove the bracelet too, but I put this down to rubbing contact between two pieces of steel rather than machining marks.


Believe me, it's not wear from the endlinks. The rough surface is pretty consistent, not localized.



> I imagine if you purchase it on a strap it would be finished?


i'm really curious to know. My bet it's the same.



> Cartier has been known to cut corners on some lower priced models.


I'd change this now to: "Cartier has been known to cut corners(period)" 
7K is not "lower priced" and with Santos probably being the most important watch they ever made I was really expecting more.


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## Seaswirl (Mar 29, 2014)

You sure this was a Santos 100? I didn’t think they were in production anymore.


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

https://www.cartier.co.uk/en-gb/col...cartier/wssa0029-santos-de-cartier-watch.html


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## Seaswirl (Mar 29, 2014)

shaiko said:


> https://www.cartier.co.uk/en-gb/col...cartier/wssa0029-santos-de-cartier-watch.html


This the Santos de Cartier. The Santos 100 has been discontinued for some time. Can't say I've ever looked carefully at the area between the lugs as it doesn't matter much to me, but I can't say my Omegas or Rolexs which come on a bracelet are any better.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Hmmm, I sold Cartier for 4.5 years and I don't recall any "corner cutting" as described.


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

> This the Santos de Cartier.


Sorry, 
It looks just like the 100 only with a steel bracelet.



> Can't say I've ever looked carefully at the area between the lugs as it doesn't matter much to me, but I can't say my Omegas or Rolexs which come on a bracelet are any better.


I have both Omega and Rolex (and I've seen that part of them). Yes, ther're not ALS but FAR BETTER than that Cartier.



> Can't say I've ever looked carefully at the area between the lugs as it doesn't matter much to me


You should! Because you paid for it and a lot more.
If it was a 300$ Seiko I wouldn't have a problem with it - but this watch is 7000$ from a "luxury" brand.
How much would it cost to add a bead blasting / grinding step to the manufacturing process ? Maybe 50$ or 100$ ?


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## Seaswirl (Mar 29, 2014)

shaiko said:


> Sorry,
> It looks just like the 100 only with a steel bracelet.
> 
> I have both Omega and Rolex (and I've seen that part of them). Yes, ther're not ALS but FAR BETTER than that Cartier.
> ...


But I don't really care. There are features and qualities of this watch and others that matter much more than the finishing of the case between the lugs. If the watch had an open gap when worn on a strap, I might care more as I do with my IWC, but not on watches where the area isn't visible.


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## NTJW (May 28, 2019)

Seaswirl said:


> But I don't really care. There are features and qualities of this watch and others that matter much more than the finishing of the case between the lugs. If the watch had an open gap when worn on a strap, I might care more as I do with my IWC, but not on watches where the area isn't visible.


While you are absolutely correct in this respect. But I understand what others are stating. When I buy something expensive, I would expect the quality would be finished the same way.

Same goes for a car, if you buy say a rolls royce, you wouldn't want an unfinished paint job under the hood, right? Not that I see the underside of the hood all the time (same goes for lugs), but it's there and I do see it from time to time.

And the extra premium is why we pay for more expensive brands, other than quality, we buy finishing. Otherwise we might as well buy those replica watches that has awful finishing anyways.

But that's just my 2cents, everyone is entitled to their opinion, there is no "right or wrong" here, simply put, I do feel Cartier should have finished their watches all over on the same level standard, but if I hate it that much, I'd just avoid buying one.


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## Acar7145 (Mar 22, 2019)

I feel you, for the price tag it should have a better finish. My personal experience has actually been the opposite. I owned a cartier santos chrono 100xl and i was very happy with the build and durability of the watch, everything seemed well made and top notch. That said, currently do not own any of the newer models so cant tell on current quality, though i have my eye on the new dumont automatic, i think its a very beautiful watch.


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

> though i have my eye on the new dumont automatic, i think its a very beautiful watch.


I think you're right - it is a beautiful watch. 
You see if I wouldn't want to buy that Santos de Cartier in the first place I wouldn't care as much.
But there I found a watch that at first glance looked absolutely beautiful and perfect - so the designers and engineers did a very good job.
But then came the money guy and said:*"Let's see where we can keep a larger part of that 7000$. Oh, I know - lets not "clean behind the ears" because who cares".*

So they lost me as a customer and I passed on a watch that I really wanted at first.


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

And there's also this:


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## Watchme7 (Mar 19, 2019)

To me poor finishing is a deal breaker. The recently updated Santos Dumont is enticing, but after what’s been revealed about some Cartier models e.g Tank Solo having a plastic movement holder, I would want to check under the caseback first


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

What material would 'expect' to see?


Watchme7 said:


> To me poor/sloppy finishing is a deal breaker. The recently updated Santos Dumont is enticing but after what's been revealed about some Cartier models e.g Tank Solo having a plastic movement holder, I would want to check under the caseback first


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## borology (Jul 6, 2019)

can you post pics?


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

borology said:


> can you post pics?


This isn't the same watch - I can see it has been (un)finished the same way:
If you freeze the video at 2:46 you'll be able to see what I'm talking about - and it looks much worse in real life.


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## Avo (Mar 1, 2010)

Watchbreath said:


> What material would 'expect' to see?


The movement holder material should match the case, as explained in the video posted by shaiko above.

Here it is again:


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

Was it plastic or teflon; teflon doesn't bother me at all. This brought to mind some years back a post whining about movement size to case size.


Avo said:


> The movement holder material should match the case, as explained in the video posted by shaiko above.
> 
> Here it is again:


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

Did OP check with Cartier about the issue? If yes, then what was their response? 

We should hear first from the brand what explanation they offer for that anomaly.... 

I checked my Cartier Santos 2018 and it's perfect between the lugs and case. Am I lucky?


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## Seaswirl (Mar 29, 2014)

Pun said:


> Did OP check with Cartier about the issue? If yes, then what was their response?
> 
> We should hear first from the brand what explanation they offer for that anomaly....
> 
> I checked my Cartier Santos 2018 and it's perfect between the lugs and case. Am I lucky?


Although the Santos has the easiest strap change system that I can think of, I still haven't been able to muster enough interest to pop the bracelet off of my Santos to verify the OP's complaint.


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## kyle1234c (Mar 30, 2017)

Seaswirl said:


> Pun said:
> 
> 
> > Did OP check with Cartier about the issue? If yes, then what was their response?
> ...


Ha, I really don't get the complaint either. If that has turned him off from buying a beautiful, svelte and historically rich watch then that's his choice. Go and plump for a rolex.


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

Seaswirl said:


> Pun said:
> 
> 
> > Did OP check with Cartier about the issue? If yes, then what was their response?
> ...


The system is quite robust. You must try changing bracelet and straps while they all are under warranty. I keep changing mine very often. It's very easy once you get used to of it. I had some hitch initially but my AD encouraged me to try at home so that I use it whenever I need to change. Try it, you'll love changing every week!


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

> Did OP check with Cartier about the issue? If yes, then what was their response?


The only "Cartier person" I spoke to is the sales lady at the (second) boutique. She asked how do I like the watch. I replied that it's really annoying that "that area" looks like this.
She replied: "but you never see it when you wear the watch"



> I checked my Cartier Santos 2018 and it's perfect between the lugs and case. Am I lucky?


What do you mean by "perfect" ? Is it finished ? Does it have any machine marks ? A picture is worth...



> Ha, I really don't get the complaint either. If that has turned him off from buying a beautiful, svelte and historically rich watch then that's his choice. Go and plump for a rolex.


Would it be easier for you to relate to if it was an 80K$ ALS or a 160K$ Patek ? If not, let's stop the conversation here.
But if it is...don't you consider 7K$ enough to expect the manufacturer do a better job ?


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## Seaswirl (Mar 29, 2014)

Is this what you’re banging on about? Given that the Santos has a quick strap change mechanism where the spring from the end links snaps into the lugs and case, it would quickly look like crap if the area was polished. Solution: get something else.


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## kyle1234c (Mar 30, 2017)

shaiko said:


> > Ha, I really don't get the complaint either. If that has turned him off from buying a beautiful, svelte and historically rich watch then that's his choice. Go and plump for a rolex.
> 
> 
> Would it be easier for you to relate to if it was an 80K$ ALS or a 160K$ Patek ? If not, let's stop the conversation here.
> But if it is...don't you consider 7K$ enough to expect the manufacturer do a better job ?


The thing is my friend you are basing your observations on conjecture. Now I am no engineer, but as the above poster says, the end links of the Santos integrated bracelet don't just sit close to the case. They actually have contact with it. The polish around the clasp looks to be a very hardy kind of bead blasting that lots of tools watches from the likes of sinn use. As such, it appears to be an entirely sensible finish for its purpose. So what you see as corner cutting, the rest of us are seeing as common sense design.


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

> it would quickly look like crap if the area was polished


Thanks for the picture Seaswirl. I never said "polished". A uniform satin finish or fine bead blasting is what I'd normally expect in this area - this would make it look clean and professional. Instead, this part is simply left untouched after initial machining.



> The thing is my friend you are basing your observations on conjecture. Now I am no engineer, but as the above poster says, the end links of the Santos integrated bracelet don't just sit close to the case. They actually have contact with it.


My friend has a 1 year old Cartier Ballon Bleu Blue with a deployment buckle. This buckle which also has constant metal to metal contact shows a lot of wear where metal touches metal and certainly doesn't look as good as other "less stressed" parts of the watch. I wouldn't say it "looks like crap" - but certainly not mint.
Yet (unsurprising to me) Cartier decided to give it a full finish when it was new. Of course leaving the clasp unfinished is something they wouldn't get away with - but the endlink area of the case, this is "forgivable".


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

I used to react similarly when I entered into this insane hobby. I had big issues like PR, accuracy and various finished parts not to my liking. 

After more than 10 years and buying and selling more than 50 watches from Longines to Omega to Rolex to Patek Philippe, I learnt that whatever these brands do, they have a serious thought process behind that. 

Now Cartier, an established luxury company of more than 100 years can't cut corners to save pennies. That's not possible. They are there because of some great values. We need to understand and appreciate that. 

Please don't take as personal offence. We need to learn to think in their shoes before passing a sweeping statement. 

They would collapse if they try to do what is alleged here. 

Luxury is always in minor details, that's what Cartier think! Period.


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

> We need to learn to think in their shoes before passing a sweeping statement


You mean like putting myself in Panerai's shoes (another Richemont brand) and justify the movement inside the PAM318 with arguments OTHER then "I'm greedy" ? 
Or inside Cartier's shoes justifying the plastic movement holders inside the Tank ?


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## Seaswirl (Mar 29, 2014)

shaiko said:


> You mean like putting myself in Panerai's shoes (another Richemont brand) and justify the movement inside the PAM318 with arguments OTHER then "I'm greedy" ?
> Or inside Cartier's shoes justifying the plastic movement holders inside the Tank ?


Out of curiosity, what watches do you currently own?


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

> Out of curiosity, what watches do you currently own?


Omega 300 in titanium
Rolex OP 39mm with a white dial
Rolex Expoler 1 214270
Rolex Submariner no date
Rado True R27071152


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## andycoph (Apr 6, 2011)

I have not checked the inner lugs of this Santos de cartier as I do not own one.. but to be fair with cartier, the inner lugs will end scratched overtime due to steel to steel contact anyways maybe that is why they did not polished/brushed or finish it.. It happened to my other watches with steel bracelet. Look at the Rolex watches specially old ones where they show serial and model numbers on inner lugs.


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## Watchman Dan (Jun 29, 2014)

I really don’t like the direction Cartier is going in. After spending two decades building legitimacy as a real watchmaker, they seem to be reversing course and going back to their “safe space” as an overpriced fashion brand. They appear to be retrenching and seem to have thrown innovation out. They’ve cut a lot of Modern models and seem mostly going back to legacy models. First their entire ultra luxury fine watchmaking line was dropped, then the roadster and now the Calibre and diver models that were the focus of their modernization ten years ago. They have been using Quartz movements in more models like the “Bargain priced” $4K Santos. They made cost cutting moves to their lower lines like the Solo, switching out the alligator straps for leather, using "Tumble Polished" clasps without lowering their prices. Of course, for years they’ve used steel backs on their solid gold models, which really is not a practice of other top luxury brands. Their base Auto movement as used in the Cle model starting at $5k has horrible stamped faux Geneva stripes usually found on cheap Chinese replica movements and a completely unfinished exposed base plate. It seems like they are just trading on their name and milking profits now. I find them to be a very poor value and there is nothing in their current line up that I find compelling.


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## shaiko (Oct 17, 2012)

> used steel backs on their solid gold models


That's NASTY !!!


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

How much direct experience you have with Cartier?


Dan Finch said:


> I really don't like the direction Cartier is going in. After spending two decades building legitimacy as a top watchmaker, they seem to be reversing course and going back to their "safe space" as an overpriced fashion brand. They've cut a lot of models. First their entire ultra luxury fine watchmaking line, the roadster and now the calibre and diver model. They have been Using Quartz movements in more models like the "Bargain priced" $4K santos. They made cost cutting moves to their lower lines like the solo, switching out the alligator straps for leather without lowering their prices. Of course for years they've used steel backs on their solid gold models, which Really is not a practice of top top luxury brands. Their base Auto movement as used in the cle model starting at $5k has horrible stamped faux Geneva stripes, and a completely unfinished exposed base plate. It seems like they are going all in on using their name to boost profits.


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## Watchman Dan (Jun 29, 2014)

Having watched the video of the offending lug area under discussion, it helps to understand what the OP is talking about. On this model, both straps and bracelets come with the custom end piece, so you never see the unfinished area, except when you do the swap. It's different than the Santos Dumont model, which I believe comes only on strap, uses a more conventional spring bar with the little tab, and would be expected to have a fully polished lug area.

The area has a lot of crevices, but you could probably have a brushed finish applied by a watchmaker to the flat areas. I agree, that would be nice to see the factory do a finish here, perhaps a fancy circular "perlage" more commensurate with its price tag. But, perhaps it would just get messed up with all the rubbing of the metal. As a big plus, the outside of the watch should be free from getting marks from strap changes, which is more important.






Another Video showing the leather strap:


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## cuibonophoto (Dec 28, 2019)

Seaswirl said:


> Is this what you're banging on about? Given that the Santos has a quick strap change mechanism where the spring from the end links snaps into the lugs and case, it would quickly look like crap if the area was polished. Solution: get something else.


I tend to agree.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## Pun (Sep 2, 2015)

shaiko said:


> > used steel backs on their solid gold models
> 
> 
> That's NASTY !!!


They have all gold watches as mainstream collection. Steel backs are very few to make them affordable to people who really strive to have a gold Cartier at lesser prices.


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## mtnslyr (Mar 5, 2018)

Steel backs and quartz movement for more than 5k! Come on guys lets call spade a spade. Cartier cheap out on materials all the time. If you like Cartier for design, that's fine, but let's not try to justify the cost cutting.


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## Watchbreath (Feb 12, 2006)

mtnslyr said:


> Steel backs and quartz movement for more than 5k! Come on guys lets call spade a spade. Cartier cheap out on materials all the time. If you like Cartier for design, that's fine, but let's not try to justify the cost cutting.


Even when the currency is becoming more worthless?


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## claybaybai (Jul 20, 2020)

Isnt the steel quick strap mechanism a relatively new feature in watchmaking? I wonder if the new Vacheron Overseas also has the same issue, and maybe this type of wear is inherrent to the technology ?


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## olske59 (May 26, 2019)

Dan Finch said:


> That is sad to know. I agree that for the money and prestige of the Brand it should be finished. Especially with the quick change for straps. I imagine if you purchase it on a strap it would be finished? Rolex is sold almost exclusively on bracelet, yet they do a basic brush finish in between the lugs. Cartier has been known to cut corners on some lower priced models. The strap clasp on the solo models are only tumble finished, not polished! Even Seikos polish the clasp!


Toyota used to paint the inside of their car trunks to the same standard as the exterior, too. Not any more...


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## Watchman Dan (Jun 29, 2014)

kyle1234c said:


> The thing is my friend you are basing your observations on conjecture. Now I am no engineer, but as the above poster says, the end links of the Santos integrated bracelet don't just sit close to the case. They actually have contact with it. The polish around the clasp looks to be a very hardy kind of bead blasting that lots of tools watches from the likes of sinn use. As such, it appears to be an entirely sensible finish for its purpose. So what you see as corner cutting, the rest of us are seeing as common sense design.


That's really too compelling of an agrument... Rolex lug areas always get messed up too. Plenty of metal to metal rubbing there also. But you certainly don't see them using that as an excuse NOT TO FINISH it!!!! They just seem to use a more pronounced brushing than other areas...


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