# Routes to a CWC



## tribe125

*Detour* *Ahead*

Setting out on a journey from my home just north of London to my mother's home sixty miles south of London, it struck me that I could ignore the sensible orbital route, plough through the whole of London, north and south, and go via Silvermans' premises in London's East End.

In retrospect, it might have been better if I hadn't decided to do this a couple of days before the Olympics. Silvermans is a few minutes from the Olympic Stadium. A few minutes at any other point in the area's history that is... Sitting in traffic did give me the chance to take a long look at the Olympic venues, soaring out of this once scruffy, post-industrial corner of London. They're an uplifting sight, I have to say.

*Silvermans *

As most will know, Silvermans is the curious emporium that embraces the Cabot Watch Company, better known as CWC. Silvermans say that their business had very humble beginnings in the East End at the end of the 19th century.

The East End, incorporating the old docks, has experienced successive waves of immigration, from Huguenots to Bangladeshis, but the people who helped define the character of the area in the twentieth century were the Ashkenazi Jews, who arrived in the late 19th century following persecution in Russia. Silvermans can probably trace their origins to these entrepreneurial refugees, striving to lift themselves above the general deprivation of the East End. Silvermans were around the Mile End Road in the late nineteenth century, and that's still their location today. The company in its current form was established in 1946.

By the late twentieth century, Silvermans were the most prominent supplier of watches to the British Ministry of Defence, but their core business has been in general military supplies and military surplus. Along the way, they have been awarded a Royal Warrant for supplying footwear to Her Majesty. Not _the_ _person_ of Her Majesty, of course - I don't think I've seen Her Majesty in 8 eyelet heavy terrain combat boots...

In the not-too-distant past, Silvermans' name sometimes came up in debates about the quality and suitability of equipment issued to British troops. In preparation for the Gulf and Iraq wars, it was said that 50% of deployed troops were choosing to equip themselves privately, rather than rely on Government issue, and that most of them were shopping at Silvermans. It was also suggested that some items, said by the MoD to be unavailable, were in fact available from Silvermans. Questions were asked in Government. So they say...

One further nugget about Silvermans: in the late 1970s, they were selling issued IWC Mk11s for £20 (around £98 today, allowing for inflation).

*CWC*

CWC was originally created in 1972 by Ray Mellor, who had been managing Hamilton's UK division, including their MoD contracts. When Hamilton went out of business, he created CWC to bid for the same contracts. In 2002, or thereabouts, Mellor retired and sold the company to Silvermans. Ray Mellor has been quoted as saying that he chose the name 'Cabot' at random. He chose well, really - a renowned fifteenth century navigator and explorer with a Royal Warrant from an English King isn't a bad association for a watch company, and the palindromic initials make for a good logo.

In recent years, Silvermans' role as watch supplier to the military has been eroded by the MoD's current practice of buying standard low-cost watches off-the-shelf from importers (mostly Seikos and Citizens). DEF standards for watches have been cancelled and not updated, meaning that the days of defined standards for British military watches are pretty much gone. If it's cheap and more or less fit for purpose, it's fine for the cash-strapped MoD! CWC's watches are anachronisms really. They're still in production, but they're mostly of interest to enthusiasts like us*. *









picture from Google street view

Silvermans is in an unlikely street for a shop, but it's not so much a shop as a nineteenth century warehouse with a retail area. Not all of the stock is on display (it couldn't be), but if you entered in a suitably frivolous mood, you could find yourself leaving in a Guardsman's red military tunic or a Russian sailor's hat. I wasn't in the mood for a surreal transformation, but I was tempted by a monocular. I didn't need a monocular, I was scarcely aware that monoculars existed, but I was briefly taken with the idea of owning a monocular. As it happens, the following day I was sitting on a beach and would have welcomed a monocular to help identify a curious-looking ship. Ah well...

I made my way past the monoculars, tactical socks and emergency ration packs to the watches. Actually, you can't avoid the watches - they're under the glass of the counter. The staff were helpful, but even so, I didn't feel there was much point in asking, "_So_, _who_ _makes_ _these, then_?" It was the standard quartz RN Diver that I was interested in, but I also had a look at the reissue chronograph_ (very_ nice, that one, but too much money), and the issued quartz chrono that never was (always liked those).










*Royal* *Navy* *Divers*

In the 1950s and 1960s, Royal Navy divers had been issued with Rolex Submariners and the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms. MoD-modified Omega Seamaster 300s were issued in the late 1960s. Together, the Submariner, and particularly the Seamaster, became the basis for the MoD standard for dive watches - DEF STAN 66-4 (Part 1) Issue 3. Not surprisingly then, the CWC is visually part of the Submariner-Seamaster family, with the accent on Seamaster.

By the late 1970s, CWC and Cyma divers had replaced the Blancpains and Omegas. Submariners were still being issued to the Royal Marines and the SBS. Quartz replaced mechanical, and the CWC RN Diver you can still buy today became the standard navy issue.

A couple of Precista divers were also issued, but mainly to RAF Search and Rescue and the Naval Reserve. Black versions of the CWC ultimately replaced the SBS Submariners. Simplifying things a little, the lineage of standard RN divers goes: Submariner > Submariner & Seamaster > Submariner > CWC. Today, in the 'post military watch' age, the MoD buys off-the-shelf Suunto dive computers and (somewhat gawky) Citizens.

*The* *RN* *Diver* *case*

The dial design comes from the MoD standard, but where does the case design come from? There were probably dozens of watch companies using the case before it was adopted by CWC, but the company mentioned most often is Heuer.

Heuer was in some financial difficulty in the mid-1970s and wanted a piece of the lucrative diver market dominated by Rolex and Omega. To lessen the financial risk of developing a new product, they went into partnership with a casemaker. One version of this story has Jack Heuer recalling that the casemaker was M.P.R. in France. A second version says that the watches were built by G. Monnin in France (and indeed early Heuer divers have that name on the inside of the case back).

It seems likely that both versions are essentially correct, in that M.R.P. made the cases and G. Monnin assembled the watches. What is undoubtedly true is that both companies provided cases, or assembled watches using those cases, for a large number of brands. Similar things happen today with casemakers. It is probably not possible to say who first designed the case, or who first used it. There are watches with the 'Heuer' case that appear to predate the Heuer (1979), and there are suggestions that Heuer rebranded an existing Monnin, so all we can reasonably say is that the case is a generic item, and that the earliest examples almost certainly came from M.R.P.

















The Hueur picture comes from 'Heuerville'. The Adura was in a dealer's catalogue, described as '_circa_ 1960s'.

One further thing - there is little doubt that M.R.P. was (and is) Swiss, not French. Some sources give its full title as 'M.R.P. S.A.', and there is today a casemaking company by that name in the Swiss Jura. It is classified as a company with sales of €10 - €20 million per annum, employing 100-200 staff. It's in a French-speaking canton close to the French border, and it would be no surprise if it supplied cases to G. Monnin.










Monnin itself seems to have disappeared without trace, although there was a Gaston Monnin operating at the right time on the French side of the border (in Charquemont, 63km from M.R.P. in Alle). There is also a Monnin company operating in today's Swiss watch industry. It manufactures high quality watch parts, and is one of those obscure but significant firms whose services to the industry aren't generally acknowledged by watch enthusiasts (who prefer to genuflect before the deity of 'in-house', despite the fact that the industry hasn't often operated in that way because it brings few benefits).

In reality, these French-speaking companies were probably part of the same watchmaking community regardless of the border. They may have had family or other close connections, and they needn't have been large concerns. They may even have moved their businesses from one country to the other. It's not inconceivable that the 'Heuer' Monnin simply went out of business in the quartz crisis, or was absorbed into another company. It would have been a footnote in a history never written, but for the fact that it once assembled some watches for Heuer.

CWC, like many companies before it, simply used what had become perhaps the standard non-Rolex, non-Omega diver case. The case that restored Heuer to financial health went on to provide some pretty tidy business for CWC. You can't erect a metaphorical plaque to it as you can with some watch-cases, but it's notable, nonetheless. Maybe M.R.P. makes the CWC case to this day. Unlikely perhaps, but who knows?

I don't think anyone knows who makes the current CWCs. Silvermans have never shown any interest in providing the information, and I can't say I blame them. The only reliable information I have seen (from Ray Mellor) is that Breitling made the early chronographs, but after that it's anyone's guess.

Anyway, after all that research and sitting in traffic on the hottest day of the year, I inevitably bought one. So...

*What's* *it* *like*?











It has more quality than I was expecting. Whoever makes them makes them well. When the navy boys went from Sub or Seamaster to CWC (if the modern version is anything like the original), they were losing a name, but they weren't (movement aside, perhaps) getting a markedly inferior product.


It's not shiny. Internet words and pictures had led me to expect a sparkling magpie lure, but it has a misty satin gleam, no more. Silvermans' current and limited stock is non-standard, apparently. What a stroke of luck...


It's nice and flat. Not dress-watch flat, obviously, but decidedly low-profile when compared with the caricature styling of some modern divers.


It's curvaceous, in a swoopy sixties kind of way.


In some lights, and at some angles, the steel chapter-ring catches the eye, but not to the extent of creating the frying-pan look of some Marathon models (for example). As I've become accustomed to the watch, the chapter-ring has come to look like one part of a harmonious steely whole.


The dial has exemplary clarity and is a testament to the design skills of whoever was wielding a pencil on behalf of the MoD (cribbing more than a little from Omega). The dial printing is neatly done, as is the lume application.


The bezel seems to be well-engineered and it's nicely unobtrusive (but still prominent enough to be used in anger).


The lume is effective. Despite the circled 'T' on the dial, the lume is pale green superluminova. The misleading 'T' is an error, apparently, and future production runs will have an 'L'. I'm regarding the error as fortuitous...


The fixed bars limit strap choices. I'm not over-keen on NATOs (fussy, fiddly, and a bit of a lash-up), so tried a black one-piece Zulu. That was OK, but it was clear that the NATO was a better fit. Cutting the loop from the NATO has provided the ideal solution for me. The colour is perfect and the 'drape' is neat. I was thinking of trying a braided 'perlon', but they don't come in grey, and the butchered NATO looks like a natural combination.










Satin sheen, classy low-slung profile, seductive curves... whisper it quietly, but this watch is almost glamorous. How toolish is that?  In practice, this is a watch that will look smart when new, and will then take on a different but equally appealing character when it's taken a few knocks. A watch for all seasons, ageing gracefully.










*Other* *stuff
*


The seconds hand hits most of the markers bang on. Those it misses, it doesn't miss by much. It would be unreasonable to ask for more.


The crown screws down with satisfying precision, but not with a great deal of travel (neither a good or a bad thing). It couldn't be better protected and it's easy to grip.


The crystal is mineral, which is arguably appropriate for the watch (shatter resistance having a higher priority than scratch resistance). Some will find this disappointing, even if it might be 'right' for the watch.


It's not cheap at £339, but neither is it outrageously expensive. Looking at CWC prices in general, I can't see that there's any shameful profiteering going on. Anyway, if a watch sells in reasonable numbers, which I believe CWCs do, then the price is about right.










*Issued* *or* *non*-*issued?*

You could, if you wished, haunt eBay looking for an issued example. My interest in military watches is to do with design, rather than with who has worn them, and where. I would prefer a shiny new one to one that has been banged up against a rusty hull in a harbour. Others will come at things from a different angle, and they won't be wrong.

As it happens, the markings on mine suggest that it was issued to a Royal Marine earlier this year. He kept it very clean, I must say, but then he can't have had it for long... ;-)

CWC aren't known for playing fast and loose with issue markings, so the batch from which mine comes was probably intended for issue. Maybe the current cuts in troop numbers have something to do with it. A limited number of non-standard matte models become available, seemingly intended for the Royal Marines, and at a time of economy-driven defence cuts? You can speculate, but that's all you can do.

With box, papers and sales receipt, mine isn't 'issued'. Without these indicators of origin, it would appear to be, at least to the extent of having reached the shelves of the Quartermaster's Store. Naturally, I will always be happy to say that mine came from a shop.

*Other* *versions*

You could, if you preferred, buy the black PVD version issued to the SBS (Special Boat Service), which was eventually issued for general use as well. Personally, I prefer the look of the dial without the day-date of the PVD version - and I have a bit of an aversion to coated surfaces, and to 'stealth'.

Or, you could buy an automatic version, with or without a date. It was the non-date version that replaced the Submariner before itself being replaced by the quartz version. I'm not sure that the automatic with a date was ever issued at all. I prefer the quartz version to both of the automatics because, as the issuing history suggests, it can reasonably be regarded as the 'ultimate' version - and it's cheaper. ;-)

*Summary*

It's a cracker. It's a working watch, but it's an elegant working watch. It has the best kind of retro appeal - contemporary relevance allied with historical design features and an interesting back-story. It's not (and this might be what I like best about military watches), in the first instance a consumer product, even if it has become one to a non-military, non-diving watch enthusiast like me. Most important of all, it says 'wear and enjoy - you've got a good watch'. :-!










Finally, it is only fair to say that much of the information in this post comes from other sources - probably more than a hundred. I did a little research of my own, but anyone can Google this stuff, given time and patience. When Google led me to other forums, it most often deposited me in MWR (Military Watch Resource), and sometimes in TZ-UK. As well as Watchuseek, of course. 

I would welcome corrections, as I don't want to inadvertently add to the internet's store of dodgy data...

Now then, let's look at the 'issued chronograph that wasn't' - you know you like them. Or is one CWC enough? And what to sell to pay for it? :think:


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## samael_6978

Nice write up. Thank you.

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## Quartersawn

Nicely done. :-!

I wanted the watch you bought but after several months of waiting I settled for an SBS version in late 2010. I suppose that was the right decision as the standard quartz version just became available again after being out of stock for close to two years. 

CWC makes a fine watch, the SBS is my third one, of which I still own two. I will one day get the 1970s chrono - I've almost gotten it several times but life always seems to get in the way. 

If you are having to cut on your straps Timefactors makes a nice RAF style strap, basically a NATO strap without the extra keeper strap. Sadly, it is not available in that dark bluish gray (or grey, lol) that looks so nice.

Thanks for the write up, I enjoyed it thoroughly. b-)


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## JohnF

Thank you! Beautiful watch and a crackingly good write-up.


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## tribe125

Saxon007 said:


> If you are having to cut on your straps Timefactors makes a nice RAF style strap, basically a NATO strap without the extra keeper strap. Sadly, it is not available in that dark bluish gray (or grey, lol) that looks so nice.


A confession: late at night I cruise the world's strap sellers like a wraith. ;-)

I knew about the TF strap, but as you suggest, the colour of the original is unmatchable and very nice. Nothing else would seem quite right, and I've been routinely butchering NATOS for years, so have no qualms about that.


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## Barry H

Had to congratulate you on a really excellent piece, Tribe. One of the best articles/reviews I've read in a long time on any watch forum. I enjoyed it immensely. Thanks for taking the trouble to write it.

My only quartz is a CWC G10 bought from Silvermans in January 2011 and after many a watch has come and gone, is still one of my favourites. A small, simple three-hand with no date and a battery hatch, it's super accurate (<3s/month) with the excellent 7 jewel ETA movement, acrylic crystal and great C3 lume (though mine has an 'L' on the dial I suspect you're right about the 'T' on your example). Classic looks with a definite vintage vibe (I wear it on a OE pigskin). Love it to bits.

I've always felt that CWC are perhaps missing out. It could be argued that, given the level of interest in their products and history and with their pedigree, they could have massive sales with a few 'new' watches. The market is definitely there. I'm thinking Bremont and Schofield here as examples. Food for thought, but wishful thinking no doubt...

Anyway, enough rambling. The CWC diver certainly is a cracker. Hope it gives you many years of pleasure.


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## tribe125

Thanks, Barry - much appreciated. 

As to CWC's potential, I think they would also lose something by 'going commercial', although clearly anyone who sells something is already commercial.

There's also the question of investment. I wouldn't profess to know the details, but it takes considerable business chutzpah to do what Bremont have done, and on a smaller scale, the same is true of Schofield. I imagine you can only recoup that investment (with anything less than mass-market sales) by positioning yourself in the luxury bracket, and that would certainly be a stretch for CWC. On top of that, CWC are really commissioners of watches, rather than designers or creators of watches. 

Consequently, I could only see CWC commissioning a wider range of styles, and that might well dilute the appeal that they have now. Steady as she goes, to quote a naval expression, I would say.


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## mike120

Great thread! I have to say, the past few weeks I have been trying to figure out what mil diver I wanted, and I ended up with a TSAR (now my second but that isn't really relevant). That being said, had I known that that finish was what I would be getting I think I would be waiting for a package from across the pond!

Again, great pickup!


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## Phil_P

What a fantastic read. Many thanks for sharing your research and your watch with the rest of us!


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## jswing

Thanks for this excellent write up. I had done some research myself, but not nearly to this extent. Do you (or anyone) know when exactly they switched to luminova? The CWC site still describes the lume as tritium. I decided I wanted the no date, auto version and waited for nearly a year for Silverman's to get one in stock, which still hasn't happened,so I ended up finding one from a private seller that was originally purchased in 08. Pretty sure it's tritium, since while camping last week it kept a steady (but somewhat dim) lume all night. I also had a chance to test the water resistance for 7 days straight and it passed with flying colors. I really like the satin finish on yours, mine has the standard polished sides, and seeing yours has me considering brushing the case. Here's mine on the Timefactors RAF strap that was mentioned - a RAF nato is my favortite choice, although like you I modified a few G10 natos to eliminate the extra hardware.


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## Andy the Squirrel

Silvermans have new stock (July 2012) of quartz divers watches with matte finished steel cases and luminova dials, and black day-date SBS divers watches with luminova dials.


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## Potex

Andy the Squirrel said:


> Silvermans have new stock (July 2012) of quartz divers watches with matte finished steel cases and luminova dials, and black day-date SBS divers watches with luminova dials.


The Silvermans website lists the SBS as having tritium markings.. Is this false?


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## Andy the Squirrel

Potex said:


> The Silvermans website lists the SBS as having tritium markings.. Is this false?


Does this answer your question?


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## mariod

Thanks for this excellent write up! I really enjoyed your post and here's the result:



















A mid to late 90s CWC SBS and an artificially aged CWC RN Auto Diver ;-)


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## tribe125

mariod said:


> Thanks for this excellent write up! I really enjoyed your post and here's the result:A mid to late 90s CWC SBS and an artificially aged CWC RN Auto Diver ;-)


:-!


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## David Woo

a story well-told, thank you and enjoy your watch.
I enjoy wandering thru shops like that, lots of interesting and historic items.


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## jva59

I only just discovered this terrific thread, Tribe125, which reminded me of a couple of pleasant trips I made to Silvermans--fortunately by public transport--when I had the good fortune to be living in London for four months in a borrowed flat. Thanks for the great description of the CWC, which I ogled while I was at Silverman's, though in the end I couldn't bring myself to spend the money and emerged with a Soviet Officer's winter hat (minus red star) and a variety of key holders. I hope to go there again.


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## tribe125

jva59 said:


> emerged with a Soviet Officer's winter hat (minus red star)


Yes, articles like that are a real temptation. I don't think I could come out of Silvermans with _nothing_.


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## tribe125

By the way, I came across some additional information on the 'blasted' RN Divers. It comes from Konrad ('lambstew') on the MWR forum:

_Apparently there are approximately 100 pieces on hand presently. The MOD took approx 15 on a trials basis with an option for a further 35, so 50 total. Issue numbers on the trials pieces were not sequential but randomly plucked. The reason these are being trialed first is the change in spec from Tritium to Luminova. Any time there is even the slightest change to the spec the MOD will run trials first. Once the run is complete the total number will be 250._

_..this finish was actually a mistake on the part of the case company as was the T dial situation. However once in hand it was decided that the cases actually looked really good and so Silvermans will be staying with the way it is now.._


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## dowsing

Nice write up and a good read. I should visit Silvermans next time I'm in that area. Although I have now joined you in having one of the new RN Divers. I much prefer this finish and think it suits the watch a lot more.


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## Geo7863

Excellent write up. I used to buy kit from Silvermans years ago because we needed kit that worked. Better Boots, Norwegian Army shirts and Berghaus rucksacks for example.. so many squaddies bought these that the British Army finally sorted their act out and issued similar kit in the late 90's (similar but not quite as good!)

I must admit I wasnt into watches during my years in the Army so I didnt know much about CWC... what I did know is that although we would rather buy our own clothing and equipment where necessary... it was very 'gucci' to get hold of an Issued watch. (only available for NCO's and above!) and wearing a G10 watch on a G10 strap was better than wrecking your own watch! I served 17 years in the Royal Engineers and we had Divers too...but I must admit I never knew what watch they were issued with. Must ask my brother as he was an RE Diver. And finally when I served all the dials on all the military watches that I saw (the CWC 'G10' and the Seiko Pilots watches) had T marked dials, and when I had to run a squadron's G1098 Stores out in Bosnia we had to keep all Tritium items in a special locker


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## tribe125

*dowsing* - Great picture! I was meant to be moving back to Kent in a couple of weeks, but my buyer pulled out at the 11th hour... o|

*Geo7863 - *Thanks - and thanks also for confirming that the troops have sometimes chosen to equip themselves at Silvermans.


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## charger02

I decided to purchase a CWC quartz diver from Silvermans but I haven't received anything in the way of a receipt or shipping notification. Anyone know how the process works when making a purchase and the timeframe it takes to ship to the U.S.?


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## Quartersawn

charger02 said:


> I decided to purchase a CWC quartz diver from Silvermans but I haven't received anything in the way of a receipt or shipping notification. Anyone know how the process works when making a purchase and the timeframe it takes to ship to the U.S.?


Did you purchase through the website or call them? Regardless of how you purchased it call them and ask them to remove the VAT - you don't live in Europe so you don't have to pay the European VAT (a rather steep 20%).

I had to call 3 or 4 times before they finally shipped my watch a couple of weeks after I ordered. Quick to ship they ain't...


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## charger02

Well it got here today, overall I am pleased with the purchase and the shipping time was about a week so no complaints. It looks like they have changed the case as it is more bead blasted in appearance than polished. Also, it looks like the markers are no longer tritium...unless tritium glows brighter after being exposed to the sun and dulls after a few minutes indoors.


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## tribe125

charger02 said:


> It looks like they have changed the case as it is more bead blasted in appearance than polished. Also, it looks like the markers are no longer tritium...unless tritium glows brighter after being exposed to the sun and dulls after a few minutes indoors.


Mentioned further up the thread in post 19.


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## charger02

I suppose will tell if the old cases (with tritium) will command a premium on the resale market. I enjoy my CWC diver so much that I am considering purchasing the automatic version.


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## lenny

Count me in as another satisfied customer. After getting the RN diver, I set my sights on the reissue bicompax chrono. Having just received it, I am shocked by how lightweight and small it is. It's manual wind only, with a huge, yet comfortable crown. Crystal is acrylic. Only drawback so far is the 3 ATM water resistance.


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## Quartersawn

lenny said:


> Count me in as another satisfied customer. After getting the RN diver, I set my sights on the reissue bicompax chrono. Having just received it, I am shocked by how lightweight and small it is. It's manual wind only, with a huge, yet comfortable crown. Crystal is acrylic. Only drawback so far is the 3 ATM water resistance.


That is a great looking chrono, I've almost bought that watch a half dozen times. How do you like it and how thick is it compared to your diver? Can you post a photo of the chrono and RN diver side by side? I always thought they were comparable in size but your post now has me thinking I am mistaken.


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## lenny

Sure:

































Pretty big difference in weight and size. Still can't believe the 7760 is so tiny. I've worn it for 2 days straight and find it very unobtrusive. Timekeeping is exceptional, though the start/stop pusher is a little sticky (bought used). Still trying to find the perfect strap - tried admiralty grey and a timefactors green NATO. I am scared of getting caught in a rain storm given the 3atm resistance - is that being irrational?


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## Quartersawn

lenny said:


> Sure:
> 
> Pretty big difference in weight and size. Still can't believe the 7760 is so tiny. I've worn it for 2 days straight and find it very unobtrusive. Timekeeping is exceptional, though the start/stop pusher is a little sticky (bought used). Still trying to find the perfect strap - tried admiralty grey and a timefactors green NATO. I am scared of getting caught in a rain storm given the 3atm resistance - is that being irrational?


Perfect comparison shots. Thanks for the photos. b-)

I wouldn't worry about rain or splashing, as long as you don't go swimming or noodling for catfish with it I think you'll be okay.


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## dkpw

A belated but appreciative, "Thank you" to Tribe for posting an incredibly informative thread on the CWC RN diver. It's a superb resource and been an entertaining read. I stumbled across it after seeing a couple of Heuer Night Divers (a watch with which I was not familiar) and thinking, "hang on that case looks rather familiar." It's great to find an explanation of that link and gain an appreciation of my latest watch, a 2012 new batch model with SL but T marked dial.

If anyone is contemplating a purchase of CWC diver, Tribe's review is completely accurate and balanced, correlating very much with my experience after two months ownership. Like him, I too enjoy hacking off those irritating flappy bits from the phoenix NATO. On mine, the second hand hits the markers all the way round and so far the only minor annoyance I have is that quartz runs slow rather than fast.

Some have said, including myself elsewhere on the web, that there are other military inspired quartz divers which may be better value than the CWC. That may be true subjectively and the current CWC price (£349) can seem high on paper, but I made that comment before I'd handled or worn one. The quality and solidity of the case, it's curves, low profile, the beautiful sword hands and exceptional dial clarity mean that I think it was worthy every penny; especially when I know it will be worn and enjoyed regularly as my only quartz diver.


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## Papichulo

I just read this very informative thread and must say Tribe, I now want one. Thank you sir. Cheers


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## Quartersawn

I picked up the stainless one a few months ago. It gets a lot of wrist time but it doesn't solve everything. Now I want that chronograph. b-)


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## Papichulo

Well thanks to this thread I purchased a beaut last night from a fellow WIS. thanks Dan! I can hardly wait for it to arrive.


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## Papichulo

Update, I just received my Quartz RN Dive watch yesterday and I must say it is the most comfortable watch I have worn. I have had a couple $3K-plus watches and I am amazed. Being a low profile diver with a shorter lug length makes this watch a true gem to wear. I am amazed, but now I need a second one with a date wheel. Cheers


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## DR Da-da

Excellent thread that's well-written, entertaining, and contains a great amount of interesting information. Thank you, Tribe, for taking the time to write it!

I'm currently agonizing (drooling) over this watch. Quartz or auto, dated or non-dated . . . ugh! I'd prefer auto w/ date, but I'm struggling with paying that kind of price for a watch that would be a daily "beater." After e-mailing Silvermans, I confirmed that the prices listed on their website do, in fact, include the European VAT. As a US buyer, Rachel at Silvermans instructed me to ask that the VAT be deducted from my order by placing a message in the comments box during the online checkout procedure.

Therefore, with their current pricing and today's Pound-to-Dollar exchange rate, Rachel confirmed that the quartz version shipped to my door in the US is $515.48 total USD (£290.83 + £20 shipping). The auto w/ date would be $793.26 total USD (£458.33 + £20 shipping). I’ve read that Silvermans provides a military discount, but I didn't even bother to ask because I doubt that it would also apply to US military.

Two questions: Does anyone know where to pick up an aftermarket sapphire crystal to fit one of these? Also, aside from price and a mineral crystal, the only other complaint I've read about concerning these watches is less-than-stellar bezel action (i.e. slack/play or weak clicking action). Does anyone have any comments about this issue - good or bad? Thanks!

Decisions, decisions . . .


----------



## dkpw

DR Da-da said:


> Two questions: Does anyone know where to pick up an aftermarket sapphire crystal to fit one of these? Also, aside from price and a mineral crystal, the only other complaint I've read about concerning these watches is less-than-stellar bezel action (i.e. slack/play or weak clicking action). Does anyone have any comments about this issue - good or bad? Thanks!
> 
> Decisions, decisions . . .


Hi,

I have a very small amount of play in my bezel but it really is nothing to worry about. The click action is positive on my watch. 
I'm not sure if you could find a sapphire crystal, Silvermans may be able to give you dimensions of the crystal and method of attachment to the case.
While I prefer acrylic or sapphire to mineral, it's not something I'd worry about until I scratched it really badly. This watch is made to be worn and if not abused, most definitely used.

Good luck!


----------



## EGLRGRWATCH

The CWC RN Diver Auto, no date, has such a nice, symmetrical look to the dial. Believe it is still ETA 2824-2. I have the Auto version and the combination satin / polished case combined with the Admiralty Grey stripe is almost 'James Bondish'.., Looks nice with a suit.


----------



## BigBluefish

Thanks to the OP for his informative post and resulting thread. I've been aware of this watch for awhile, but hadn't really thought seriously about getting one. Having just picked up a Precista PRS-18q, and enjoying it greatly,I'm thining another mil-dive watch might be needed. I am really liking the dial layout that came from the MOD specs, and clean lines of the cases of both the -18 and this CWC. I was planning to get a Sumo as my second watch for this year, but I'm now thinking I might put that off and instead grab a stainless, no date quartz RN diver instead.


----------



## dkpw

BigBluefish said:


> Thanks to the OP for his informative post and resulting thread. I've been aware of this watch for awhile, but hadn't really thought seriously about getting one. Having just picked up a Precista PRS-18q, and enjoying it greatly,I'm thinking another mil-dive watch might be needed. I am really liking the dial layout that came from the MOD specs, and clean lines of the cases of both the -18 and this CWC. I was planning to get a Sumo as my second watch for this year, but I'm now thinking I might put that off and instead grab a stainless, no date quartz RN diver instead.


I'm a big fan of both watches and for several years very much enjoyed the 18-Q.

When I bought my quartz ND CWC I was impressed with it immediately. In my opinion, it has the following advantages over the 18Q: a lower profile, a larger dial with it sitting high in the case being more legible, the sword hands and overall a more solid feel. Of course the 18Q has sapphire crystal, removable spring bars for greater strap options, 10 year battery life and is available at a very reasonable price. However, like many quartz watches, the Rhonda 715i movement in my 18Q phased in and out of hitting the seconds markers and there was also some drift in the minute hand. At first this didn't bother me but in the end it did. The CWC I have, hits the markers every time and with space for only one military inspired diver, the CWC won out.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Papichulo

dkpw said:


> I'm a big fan of both watches and for several years very much enjoyed the 18-Q.
> 
> When I bought my quartz ND CWC I was impressed with it immediately. In my opinion, it has the following advantages over the 18Q: a lower profile, a larger dial with it sitting high in the case being more legible, the sword hands and overall a more solid feel. Of course the 18Q has sapphire crystal, removable spring bars for greater strap options, 10 year battery life and is available at a very reasonable price. However, like many quartz watches, the Rhonda 715i movement in my 18Q phased in and out of hitting the seconds markers and there was also some drift in the minute hand. At first this didn't bother me but in the end it did. The CWC I have, hits the markers every time and with space for only one military inspired diver, the CWC won out.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Additionally, the 715 Ronda is a good movement; however, the RN's ETA movement is far superior.


----------



## longstride

A fantastic write up....you give some really useful background here too, thanks for the effort.


tribe125 said:


> *Detour* *Ahead*
> 
> Setting out on a journey from my home just north of London to my mother's home sixty miles south of London, it struck me that I could ignore the sensible orbital route, plough through the whole of London, north and south, and go via Silvermans' premises in London's East End.
> 
> In retrospect, it might have been better if I hadn't decided to do this a couple of days before the Olympics. Silvermans is a few minutes from the Olympic Stadium. A few minutes at any other point in the area's history that is... Sitting in traffic did give me the chance to take a long look at the Olympic venues, soaring out of this once scruffy, post-industrial corner of London. They're an uplifting sight, I have to say.
> 
> *Silvermans *
> 
> As most will know, Silvermans is the curious emporium that embraces the Cabot Watch Company, better known as CWC. Silvermans say that their business had very humble beginnings in the East End at the end of the 19th century.
> 
> The East End, incorporating the old docks, has experienced successive waves of immigration, from Huguenots to Bangladeshis, but the people who helped define the character of the area in the twentieth century were the Ashkenazi Jews, who arrived in the late 19th century following persecution in Russia. Silvermans can probably trace their origins to these entrepreneurial refugees, striving to lift themselves above the general deprivation of the East End. Silvermans were around the Mile End Road in the late nineteenth century, and that's still their location today. The company in its current form was established in 1946.
> 
> By the late twentieth century, Silvermans were the most prominent supplier of watches to the British Ministry of Defence, but their core business has been in general military supplies and military surplus. Along the way, they have been awarded a Royal Warrant for supplying footwear to Her Majesty. Not _the_ _person_ of Her Majesty, of course - I don't think I've seen Her Majesty in 8 eyelet heavy terrain combat boots...
> 
> In the not-too-distant past, Silvermans' name sometimes came up in debates about the quality and suitability of equipment issued to British troops. In preparation for the Gulf and Iraq wars, it was said that 50% of deployed troops were choosing to equip themselves privately, rather than rely on Government issue, and that most of them were shopping at Silvermans. It was also suggested that some items, said by the MoD to be unavailable, were in fact available from Silvermans. Questions were asked in Government. So they say...
> 
> One further nugget about Silvermans: in the late 1970s, they were selling issued IWC Mk11s for £20 (around £98 today, allowing for inflation).
> 
> *CWC*
> 
> CWC was originally created in 1972 by Ray Mellor, who had been managing Hamilton's UK division, including their MoD contracts. When Hamilton went out of business, he created CWC to bid for the same contracts. In 2002, or thereabouts, Mellor retired and sold the company to Silvermans. Ray Mellor has been quoted as saying that he chose the name 'Cabot' at random. He chose well, really - a renowned fifteenth century navigator and explorer with a Royal Warrant from an English King isn't a bad association for a watch company, and the palindromic initials make for a good logo.
> 
> In recent years, Silvermans' role as watch supplier to the military has been eroded by the MoD's current practice of buying standard low-cost watches off-the-shelf from importers (mostly Seikos and Citizens). DEF standards for watches have been cancelled and not updated, meaning that the days of defined standards for British military watches are pretty much gone. If it's cheap and more or less fit for purpose, it's fine for the cash-strapped MoD! CWC's watches are anachronisms really. They're still in production, but they're mostly of interest to enthusiasts like us*. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> picture from Google street view
> 
> Silvermans is in an unlikely street for a shop, but it's not so much a shop as a nineteenth century warehouse with a retail area. Not all of the stock is on display (it couldn't be), but if you entered in a suitably frivolous mood, you could find yourself leaving in a Guardsman's red military tunic or a Russian sailor's hat. I wasn't in the mood for a surreal transformation, but I was tempted by a monocular. I didn't need a monocular, I was scarcely aware that monoculars existed, but I was briefly taken with the idea of owning a monocular. As it happens, the following day I was sitting on a beach and would have welcomed a monocular to help identify a curious-looking ship. Ah well...
> 
> I made my way past the monoculars, tactical socks and emergency ration packs to the watches. Actually, you can't avoid the watches - they're under the glass of the counter. The staff were helpful, but even so, I didn't feel there was much point in asking, "_So_, _who_ _makes_ _these, then_?" It was the standard quartz RN Diver that I was interested in, but I also had a look at the reissue chronograph_ (very_ nice, that one, but too much money), and the issued quartz chrono that never was (always liked those).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Royal* *Navy* *Divers*
> 
> In the 1950s and 1960s, Royal Navy divers had been issued with Rolex Submariners and the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms. MoD-modified Omega Seamaster 300s were issued in the late 1960s. Together, the Submariner, and particularly the Seamaster, became the basis for the MoD standard for dive watches - DEF STAN 66-4 (Part 1) Issue 3. Not surprisingly then, the CWC is visually part of the Submariner-Seamaster family, with the accent on Seamaster.
> 
> By the late 1970s, CWC and Cyma divers had replaced the Blancpains and Omegas. Submariners were still being issued to the Royal Marines and the SBS. Quartz replaced mechanical, and the CWC RN Diver you can still buy today became the standard navy issue.
> 
> A couple of Precista divers were also issued, but mainly to RAF Search and Rescue and the Naval Reserve. Black versions of the CWC ultimately replaced the SBS Submariners. Simplifying things a little, the lineage of standard RN divers goes: Submariner > Submariner & Seamaster > Submariner > CWC. Today, in the 'post military watch' age, the MoD buys off-the-shelf Suunto dive computers and (somewhat gawky) Citizens.
> 
> *The* *RN* *Diver* *case*
> 
> The dial design comes from the MoD standard, but where does the case design come from? There were probably dozens of watch companies using the case before it was adopted by CWC, but the company mentioned most often is Heuer.
> 
> Heuer was in some financial difficulty in the mid-1970s and wanted a piece of the lucrative diver market dominated by Rolex and Omega. To lessen the financial risk of developing a new product, they went into partnership with a casemaker. One version of this story has Jack Heuer recalling that the casemaker was M.P.R. in France. A second version says that the watches were built by G. Monnin in France (and indeed early Heuer divers have that name on the inside of the case back).
> 
> It seems likely that both versions are essentially correct, in that M.R.P. made the cases and G. Monnin assembled the watches. What is undoubtedly true is that both companies provided cases, or assembled watches using those cases, for a large number of brands. Similar things happen today with casemakers. It is probably not possible to say who first designed the case, or who first used it. There are watches with the 'Heuer' case that appear to predate the Heuer (1979), and there are suggestions that Heuer rebranded an existing Monnin, so all we can reasonably say is that the case is a generic item, and that the earliest examples almost certainly came from M.R.P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hueur picture comes from 'Heuerville'. The Adura was in a dealer's catalogue, described as '_circa_ 1960s'.
> 
> One further thing - there is little doubt that M.R.P. was (and is) Swiss, not French. Some sources give its full title as 'M.R.P. S.A.', and there is today a casemaking company by that name in the Swiss Jura. It is classified as a company with sales of €10 - €20 million per annum, employing 100-200 staff. It's in a French-speaking canton close to the French border, and it would be no surprise if it supplied cases to G. Monnin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnin itself seems to have disappeared without trace, although there was a Gaston Monnin operating at the right time on the French side of the border (in Charquemont, 63km from M.R.P. in Alle). There is also a Monnin company operating in today's Swiss watch industry. It manufactures high quality watch parts, and is one of those obscure but significant firms whose services to the industry aren't generally acknowledged by watch enthusiasts (who prefer to genuflect before the deity of 'in-house', despite the fact that the industry hasn't often operated in that way because it brings few benefits).
> 
> In reality, these French-speaking companies were probably part of the same watchmaking community regardless of the border. They may have had family or other close connections, and they needn't have been large concerns. They may even have moved their businesses from one country to the other. It's not inconceivable that the 'Heuer' Monnin simply went out of business in the quartz crisis, or was absorbed into another company. It would have been a footnote in a history never written, but for the fact that it once assembled some watches for Heuer.
> 
> CWC, like many companies before it, simply used what had become perhaps the standard non-Rolex, non-Omega diver case. The case that restored Heuer to financial health went on to provide some pretty tidy business for CWC. You can't erect a metaphorical plaque to it as you can with some watch-cases, but it's notable, nonetheless. Maybe M.R.P. makes the CWC case to this day. Unlikely perhaps, but who knows?
> 
> I don't think anyone knows who makes the current CWCs. Silvermans have never shown any interest in providing the information, and I can't say I blame them. The only reliable information I have seen (from Ray Mellor) is that Breitling made the early chronographs, but after that it's anyone's guess.
> 
> Anyway, after all that research and sitting in traffic on the hottest day of the year, I inevitably bought one. So...
> 
> *What's* *it* *like*?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has more quality than I was expecting. Whoever makes them makes them well. When the navy boys went from Sub or Seamaster to CWC (if the modern version is anything like the original), they were losing a name, but they weren't (movement aside, perhaps) getting a markedly inferior product.
> 
> 
> It's not shiny. Internet words and pictures had led me to expect a sparkling magpie lure, but it has a misty satin gleam, no more. Silvermans' current and limited stock is non-standard, apparently. What a stroke of luck...
> 
> 
> It's nice and flat. Not dress-watch flat, obviously, but decidedly low-profile when compared with the caricature styling of some modern divers.
> 
> 
> It's curvaceous, in a swoopy sixties kind of way.
> 
> 
> In some lights, and at some angles, the steel chapter-ring catches the eye, but not to the extent of creating the frying-pan look of some Marathon models (for example). As I've become accustomed to the watch, the chapter-ring has come to look like one part of a harmonious steely whole.
> 
> 
> The dial has exemplary clarity and is a testament to the design skills of whoever was wielding a pencil on behalf of the MoD (cribbing more than a little from Omega). The dial printing is neatly done, as is the lume application.
> 
> 
> The bezel seems to be well-engineered and it's nicely unobtrusive (but still prominent enough to be used in anger).
> 
> 
> The lume is effective. Despite the circled 'T' on the dial, the lume is pale green superluminova. The misleading 'T' is an error, apparently, and future production runs will have an 'L'. I'm regarding the error as fortuitous...
> 
> 
> The fixed bars limit strap choices. I'm not over-keen on NATOs (fussy, fiddly, and a bit of a lash-up), so tried a black one-piece Zulu. That was OK, but it was clear that the NATO was a better fit. Cutting the loop from the NATO has provided the ideal solution for me. The colour is perfect and the 'drape' is neat. I was thinking of trying a braided 'perlon', but they don't come in grey, and the butchered NATO looks like a natural combination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satin sheen, classy low-slung profile, seductive curves... whisper it quietly, but this watch is almost glamorous. How toolish is that?  In practice, this is a watch that will look smart when new, and will then take on a different but equally appealing character when it's taken a few knocks. A watch for all seasons, ageing gracefully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Other* *stuff
> *
> 
> 
> The seconds hand hits most of the markers bang on. Those it misses, it doesn't miss by much. It would be unreasonable to ask for more.
> 
> 
> The crown screws down with satisfying precision, but not with a great deal of travel (neither a good or a bad thing). It couldn't be better protected and it's easy to grip.
> 
> 
> The crystal is mineral, which is arguably appropriate for the watch (shatter resistance having a higher priority than scratch resistance). Some will find this disappointing, even if it might be 'right' for the watch.
> 
> 
> It's not cheap at £339, but neither is it outrageously expensive. Looking at CWC prices in general, I can't see that there's any shameful profiteering going on. Anyway, if a watch sells in reasonable numbers, which I believe CWCs do, then the price is about right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Issued* *or* *non*-*issued?*
> 
> You could, if you wished, haunt eBay looking for an issued example. My interest in military watches is to do with design, rather than with who has worn them, and where. I would prefer a shiny new one to one that has been banged up against a rusty hull in a harbour. Others will come at things from a different angle, and they won't be wrong.
> 
> As it happens, the markings on mine suggest that it was issued to a Royal Marine earlier this year. He kept it very clean, I must say, but then he can't have had it for long... ;-)
> 
> CWC aren't known for playing fast and loose with issue markings, so the batch from which mine comes was probably intended for issue. Maybe the current cuts in troop numbers have something to do with it. A limited number of non-standard matte models become available, seemingly intended for the Royal Marines, and at a time of economy-driven defence cuts? You can speculate, but that's all you can do.
> 
> With box, papers and sales receipt, mine isn't 'issued'. Without these indicators of origin, it would appear to be, at least to the extent of having reached the shelves of the Quartermaster's Store. Naturally, I will always be happy to say that mine came from a shop.
> 
> *Other* *versions*
> 
> You could, if you preferred, buy the black PVD version issued to the SBS (Special Boat Service), which was eventually issued for general use as well. Personally, I prefer the look of the dial without the day-date of the PVD version - and I have a bit of an aversion to coated surfaces, and to 'stealth'.
> 
> Or, you could buy an automatic version, with or without a date. It was the non-date version that replaced the Submariner before itself being replaced by the quartz version. I'm not sure that the automatic with a date was ever issued at all. I prefer the quartz version to both of the automatics because, as the issuing history suggests, it can reasonably be regarded as the 'ultimate' version - and it's cheaper. ;-)
> 
> *Summary*
> 
> It's a cracker. It's a working watch, but it's an elegant working watch. It has the best kind of retro appeal - contemporary relevance allied with historical design features and an interesting back-story. It's not (and this might be what I like best about military watches), in the first instance a consumer product, even if it has become one to a non-military, non-diving watch enthusiast like me. Most important of all, it says 'wear and enjoy - you've got a good watch'. :-!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, it is only fair to say that much of the information in this post comes from other sources - probably more than a hundred. I did a little research of my own, but anyone can Google this stuff, given time and patience. When Google led me to other forums, it most often deposited me in MWR (Military Watch Resource), and sometimes in TZ-UK. As well as Watchuseek, of course.
> 
> I would welcome corrections, as I don't want to inadvertently add to the internet's store of dodgy data...
> 
> Now then, let's look at the 'issued chronograph that wasn't' - you know you like them. Or is one CWC enough? And what to sell to pay for it? :think:


----------



## Godan

What a useful thread! I had been considering a Bremont until the recent debacle, especially the hideous interview, convinced me to look elsewhere. CWC is the obvious next choice, and the wealth of information here, with credible specifics, is helping me to focus. As a point of interest, I will never buy another watch with a mineral glass crystal, so the field is narrowed somewhat. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.


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## charger02

In regards to mineral glass, I recently purchased another CWC Diver and it had sapphire glass and a glossy finish. I was told they hadn't been listed yet at the time of my purchase and it looks like they still haven't. When I made my purchase I enquired via their CS email and was given prompt and thorough service.

If I could afford it I would purchase one of the 1970's chrono reissue!


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## longstride

I've just ordered the exact same watch (bead blast finish) as tribe125....now the wait begins...!


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## longstride

Very happy with the watch BTW....


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## Brucy

Nice watches, I have the SBS version and Tribe did a sterling job on the op! I'd probably get one of the standard satin finish ones if the disposable $$$ are ever there and it happens as an impulse buy... Passing what is a great wee warehouse in east London!

I heard, can't remember where now, that the reason behind the T still being on the dial when superluminova was used was due to the number of spare dials left over that it was simply mismatched production runs!

Regardless, great op, great watches


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## Matt Sutton

I have been a great enthusiast of CWC for quite some time. I also had three Marathon GSARs, one of which was a Mapale Leaf, but dropped them because of quality issues.

I started with a SBS Black watch case, but it was "lost" during training. I replaced it with an SBS that Silverman's offered for a short time that had the unfinished silver case. I sent it in to my watch maker to replace the mineral crystal with a hardened sapphire, with anti-reflective coating. The case was also micro-bead blasted to a very smooth subdued silver. It generally gains a couple seconds a month. Extremely high end performance. (Not quite as much as my Citizen CTQ57-1201)

My second CWC was the RN Automatic Diver with date. I had the movement serviced, and my watch maker was very surprised at the quality of the ETA 2824-2 Movement. He rated it a 8 out of 10 in quality. It typically looses only a few seconds per day. I replaced the Mineral crystal with un-coated sapphire. The highly polished exterior accented by light brush highlights is ideal for anti-corrosion as there is very little textured surface for corrosion to start. It's my daily wear watch.

My third CWC is the 1970's remake of the chronograph. ETA Valjoux 7760 modified with 30 jewels. This is the crown jewel of the CWC line. I recommend getting one before they are gone. For the same amount of coin you can purchase an original CWC with an inferior movement, case, and deteriorated illumination. I think they priced these to match the original.

Lastly, I recently purchased an issued surplus W-10, NOS, fully serviced mint condition, from 1979. I love the simple dial, hand wind movement, and 1970's styling-retro. The wife acquired it (hope it does not set a precedence) so I was "forced" to buy another, only it was a 1976 issue-same mint condition. My wife likes that it is easy to wind and set.

These are great watches, and very high quality. I enjoy the simplicity of the military dials, and retro style. The SBS is my most practical watch for the field because of its accuracy, ruggedness, and anti-reflective sapphire crystal. The automatic is my daily wear because I enjoy mechanical movements and I live in Hawaii, surrounded by water and salt air. Basically it is the corrosion capitol of the world. The Chronograph is a great deal of value for the money. I would not trade it for a Bell & Ross. The W-10 was the last to complete the collection of an Army watch, and an issued watch.


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## William

I agree. I bought this one a few months ago and have been wearing it, pretty much, every day. It is very legible and compact. It is right in my sweet spot for size and comfort. Some thought it a bit pricey but I think it is just right. The other go-to watch is my CWC RN no-date auto diver.


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## mjtyson

William said:


> I agree. I bought this one a few months ago and have been wearing it, pretty much, every day. It is very legible and compact. It is right in my sweet spot for size and comfort. Some thought it a bit pricey but I think it is just right. The other go-to watch is my CWC RN no-date auto diver.


Where'd you get it?


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## William

mjtyson said:


> Where'd you get it?


Bought from Silverman's. I think they are the only authorized dealer for CWC


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## Quartersawn

William said:


>


I love this watch but am leery about parts availibility. The movement is a modified 7760. Are the parts all standard and readily available or must one contact Silverman's for parts? I've read that they do not sell parts which I find troubling.

I could try to contact them and ask but in my experience they don't respond to email queries.


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## mjtyson

William said:


> Bought from Silverman's. I think they are the only authorized dealer for CWC


Thanks, that's what I figured. I've been waiting over a year for them to get the general service mechanical with broad arrow back in stock, but no joy. Yours is beautiful, but too rich for my blood.


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## mjtyson

mjtyson said:


> Thanks, that's what I figured. I've been waiting over a year for them to get the general service mechanical with broad arrow back in stock, but no joy. Yours is beautiful, but too rich for my blood.


And even stranger: I just wrote to Silvermans for the first time in a year or so (at [email protected]) and got a kick back from their mail robot saying the email delivery failed. Wonder what happened.


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## Matt Sutton

The parts for the ETA Valjoux 77xx series are plentiful. That is what makes it such a great watch–sustainability. 30 Jewels in the 1970's remake.


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## Quartersawn

Matt Sutton said:


> The parts for the ETA Valjoux 77xx series are plentiful. That is what makes it such a great watch-sustainability. 30 Jewels in the 1970's remake.


My apologies, my question was not clear. I realize regular 7760 parts are available but the 1970s remake is modified to move the minutes sub-dial to the 3 o'clock position. I assume this is done with readily available stock parts but I am concerned that the modification might include parts that are not standard or readily available.


----------



## Matt Sutton

Good question on the availability of modification specific parts. Kind of off on a different, but related subject that concerns me most, is the availability of competent horologists that can be trusted to even work on mechanical watches these days. A CWC has a very generous warranty, but does not fall under the umbrella of any of the big chronograph names, although the many of the movements are modifications of the Val. 77xx.


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## William

I have never had a problem communicating with Silverman's however it may take a day or two for response.
Also never thought about parts. I tend not to worry about it as I have only once had a watch "break" in my many years of owning watches. I would just hope Silverman's has a reasonable supply of backup parts for these watches. If not, oh well. 
I just like this one enough to chance it.


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## Matt Sutton

I agree William. The odds of this "tank" breaking, or parts wearing out are very slim. That kind of risk applies to just about everything. 

I have a very high end Ulysse Nardin mechanical 1846 chronometer (150th Ann.) that I cannot get repaired by the USA service center in Boca Raton, FL. If a customer sends a watch in–no matter for what reason–it has to go through a mandatory complete overhaul. Not a normal inspect and repair as needed process, but an all or nothing propostion. They do not even sell parts to certified watch makers to avoid this. So in that respect, I have a much easier time getting my 1950 Hamilton 992B repaired and serviced than a modern "big name" UN. 

Your right, being aware of the maintenance concept is a real aspect in owning a watch. I find Silverman's usually take phone calls, but are not email folks.


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## longstride

I love this thread, tribe125 did a brilliant job, (even though it goes off on a couple of CWC tangents) I wear my RN Diver on all kinds of NATO's and ZULU's here its on a red HD ZULU.


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## parsig9

Silverman's recently told me that later, maybe by November, they will be getting a shipment with new brighter lume and a sapphire crystal option.


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## longstride

Mario, how did you 'artificially' age your CWC Auto?


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## Quartersawn

longstride said:


> Mario, how did you 'artificially' age your CWC Auto?


I am curious as well. I've owned the watch for about two and a half years, I bought it from the gentleman who bought it from mariod. It still looks great and keeps time really well. It has turned into the watch I put on when I get home from work and I wear it most weekends so it gets plenty of wrist time.


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## mc0492

cant wait for the reissue of the 1980 in September 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## longstride

Agreed - I hope it remains as faithful to the original as possible, acrylic inlay Bezel, old style crown protector, small circle 'L' (originally a 'T') etc...


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## centurionavre

Hi,

I had a slightly more convoluted route to a CWC, one that involves flying over the Atlantic Ocean. Made it to Silvermans on the first day of my holidays in the UK and snagged one of these.

I love the simplicity of the SBS diver. Used it as my beater watch while travelling in the UK.









Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


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## mc0492

longstride said:


> Agreed - I hope it remains as faithful to the original as possible, acrylic inlay Bezel, old style crown protector, small circle 'L' (originally a 'T') etc...
> 
> View attachment 12328159


hope they keep the lume end of the seconds hand...can't wait for these bad boys

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## longstride

I think this thread is due for a reboot, unfortunately *tribe125* has suffered the same fate as many Photobucket users - and all of the original photo's that he posted are now gone.

*tribe125* did an outstanding job with his initial review of CWC's RN Diver, here on this thread....time to rebuild/reboot.


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## pdsf

longstride said:


> I think this thread is due for a reboot, unfortunately *tribe125* has suffered the same fate as many Photobucket users - and all of the original photo's that he posted are now gone.
> 
> *tribe125* did an outstanding job with his initial review of CWC's RN Diver, here on this thread....time to rebuild/reboot.


I recently found my way to CWC but oh goodness, I can't remember how! Oh well *insert old man emoji*. Anyway, I also am looking forward to the release of the 1980. LOVE the crown guard design!!!


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## jb1030

mc0492 said:


> hope they keep the lume end of the seconds hand...can't wait for these bad boys
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 That would be outstanding!


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## mc0492

jb1030 said:


> That would be outstanding!


hope I can order soon!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gsr96r

My route to a CWC started several years ago when a coworker found a G10 under the back seat of a vehicle we were cleaning. Without a way to track down the owner, and a lack of interest from everyone else, I ended up with possession of it. After a few years of good service with me, the crown and stem came out one day as I attempted to adjust the time. A local jeweler was able to replace the movement, and refresh the lume with some SuperLuminova. I replaced the gray NATO strap, which had seen the end of its useful service life, with a nice one from NATOStraps.com. It is my go to watch for those times I'm doing rough and tumble activities that other watches I have are not as well suited to.


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## longstride

Nice Find!


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## Cornelius

Love all the info but too bad Photobucket suck. All pictures gone wit their new strategy. Please use other hosting services.


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## Toothbras

Just got one, gotta say so far I'm elated. Here it is pulling hard duty in the woods


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## soaking.fused

Toothbras said:


> Just got one, gotta say so far I'm elated. Here it is pulling hard duty in the woods


Nice addition! Looks great, too.


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## Toothbras

soaking.fused said:


> Nice addition! Looks great, too.


Thanks! I wasn't aware it had a 60 click here but man I loooovveeee them. One of the things I miss most about selling the pelagos, I wonder why 120 is the norm, no one needs to measure half a minute and you get such awesome positive bezel action with 60


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## longstride

Agreed....my CWC Diver is my Heavy Duty go to for almost anything....and the fixed lug bars are very reassuring - when I stick it on a ZULU the watch isn't getting ripped of my wrist anytime soon.


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## ka71yetan

Nice watches, I like classic g10


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## Serpentor

CWC is my no1, no doubt.


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## longstride

It's a shame that this thread (*tribe125*) suffered the fate of so many others - with the Photobucket reset of free hosting. Congrats to * Narc' *for posting a new thread (on yellow dog strap). *tribe125's* original is a hard act to follow.


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## 0nix

Toothbras said:


> Just got one, gotta say so far I'm elated. Here it is pulling hard duty in the woods


Beautiful watch, looks great on you.


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## Toothbras

0nix said:


> Beautiful watch, looks great on you.


Thanks 0nix! I've worn it pretty much every day since receiving it. What an awesome watch!!


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