# Help me understand Bremont's case hardening.



## 1165dvd (Sep 9, 2010)

I'm debating an MBII. Probably going to go used at this point if I do. Looking at a few that have been posted over the last year or so, many seem to have subtle marks in them, everything from bezel marks or small dings on the side, to strap changing marks on the lugs. 

Bremont makes a hard sell on it's hardening process, and many have commented that it's harder than Sinn or Damasko. I've owned 4 Damaskos, and while I'm not crazy about the color of their nickel free case, they NEVER scratched, dinged, or nicked. So what's the deal? Can anyone provide some clarity for me before I commit to buying a watch.


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## Vig2000 (Jul 5, 2012)

Unlike Damasko, who harden their cases all the way through, both Bremont and Sinn harden only the surface layer of their cases. Sinn and Bremont each use their own proprietary case hardening process, Tegiment and B-EBE2000, respectively. Here's a little more on Bremont's B-EBE2000:



> All Bremont watches are treated for hardness with B-EBE2000 technology. During this special stage in the case production the metal is heat-treated and defused with carbon, then bombarded with electrons. The process dramatically increases the hardness and scratch resistance of the stainless steel. On the Vickers' scale of hardness, for example, B-EBE2000 produces a watch case with a value of 2000Hv - approximately seven times that of the normal stainless steel used for watch cases.


2000Hv is pretty hard, but again, keep in mind that this is only surface hardening, meaning that a nasty impact can conceivably penetrate the surface and scratch the unhardened steel underneath the hardened layer. Personally, I think that Damasko is the superior choice since they harden their steel through and through, a process known as ice hardening. Ice hardening achieves a Vickers rating of 800, which isn't as hard as Bremont or Sinn, but again, Damasko hardens their cases all the way through and not just the surface. That being said, I can attest that surface hardening is still pretty damn scratch resistant, having owned several Bremonts in the past. Nary a scratch on any of them. However, I personally think that ice hardening is a pretty impressive engineering feat, making it the method of choice in my book.


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## 1165dvd (Sep 9, 2010)

Thanks Vig2000. Very helpful.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Betterthere (May 23, 2011)

3 Bremonts and i never scratched one. did scrape color part of MBII duh.


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## StufflerMike (Mar 23, 2010)

https://www.watchuseek.com/f810/hel...erman-watchs-hardening-technique-4621193.html


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## jpgreenwood (Feb 21, 2013)

I've managed to put a little ding on my MBII just at the lug corner. Maybe from changing the strap, not sure.


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## 1165dvd (Sep 9, 2010)

Betterthere said:


> 3 Bremonts and i never scratched one. did scrape color part of MBII duh.


I've read enough to know that Bremont's customer service and service dept. is pretty good to deal with. Many have said that they shipped their watch to Bremont only to have it come back with a new barrel and/ or case. If you still have the watch, you may be able to have the barrel swapped out. But your right in suggesting it's a weak link in the design. Have seen a few small nicks to those orange barrels.


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## Alysandir (Jun 29, 2016)

Also, realize that you cannot refinish a Bremont case due to the hardening process. That's not speculation, that's from the brothers themselves. 

Regards,
Alysandir


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## Betterthere (May 23, 2011)

1165dvd said:


> I've read enough to know that Bremont's customer service and service dept. is pretty good to deal with. Many have said that they shipped their watch to Bremont only to have it come back with a new barrel and/ or case. If you still have the watch, you may be able to have the barrel swapped out. But your right in suggesting it's a weak link in the design. Have seen a few small nicks to those orange barrels.


Thx like most of watches I have owned, long gone.


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## huntsvillehorologist (Aug 30, 2014)

jpgreenwood said:


> I've managed to put a little ding on my MBII just at the lug corner. Maybe from changing the strap, not sure.


That's unfortunate, but they can make it look like new at the next (or first) service!


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## RobodocX (Apr 19, 2018)

I realize this is an old thread but it brought up a question in my mind. As you harden steel, through whatever process, don't you also increase the risk of shattering with impact? Would it potentially be safer (and possibly more durable) to generate a hybrid steel with a softer core and a harder surface (i.e Bremont's method) that might be more resilient to impact resistance? Any metallurgists or material scientists out there?


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## Dennis K (Apr 24, 2018)

duplicate post.


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## Dennis K (Apr 24, 2018)

RobodocX said:


> I realize this is an old thread but it brought up a question in my mind. As you harden steel, through whatever process, don't you also increase the risk of shattering with impact? Would it potentially be safer (and possibly more durable) to generate a hybrid steel with a softer core and a harder surface (i.e Bremont's method) that might be more resilient to impact resistance? Any metallurgists or material scientists out there?


Hardened steel is still a solid metal alloy, where the atoms are metallically bonded together in a 'sea' of delocalised electrons. This means it is still ductile and malleable, just the same as any other solid metal and therefore, still able to deal with impacts without easily shattering. It's not like diamond or silicone dioxide (ceramic), which is incredibly hard yet relatively brittle due to it being a (giant) covalently-bonded structure.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Dennis K said:


> Hardened steel is still a solid metal alloy, where the atoms are metallically bonded together in a 'sea' of delocalised electrons. This means it is still ductile and malleable, just the same as any other solid metal and therefore, still able to deal with impacts without easily shattering. It's not like diamond or silicone dioxide (ceramic), which is incredibly hard yet relatively brittle due to it being a (giant) covalently-bonded structure.


Steel most certainly can become brittle, Dennis, from my days as an engineering student I recall there is a tradeoff between hardness and brittleness. Perhaps not as brittle as ice or glass, but enough to be a problem - many theorize the Titanic sunk because its steel rivets were too brittle and the impact of the iceberg caused many to shear off. Tempering is one way around that.

"Frequently, the term "hardening" is associated with tempered steel. Both processes are used hand in hand when hardening steel. The two part process begins with hardening the steel so that it becomes hard and does not wear over time. However, very often, this process *leaves the steel very brittle and susceptible to breaking* during use. " - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardened_steel

A bit more Googling reveals tons of articles talking about steel being brittle. Martensitic steel (like a Damasko case) is brittle if not further treated.

BTW, I believe much of steel's strength is because the carbon and other impurities affect the crystal lattice (steel is crystalline).

Are you a metallurgist - if so, I will sincerely apologize and consider myself schooled. But now my read on metallic bonding is that it relates to liquification/evaporation, not strength when solid:

"The attraction between the metal ions and the delocalised electrons must be overcome to melt or to boil a metal. " http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/add_ocr_gateway/periodic_table/metalsrev2.shtml

Also, you mean silicon dioxide, right? That's quartz, a/k/a silica.


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