# Moranbong North Korea watch



## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

Anyone ever heard of Moranbong watch made in North Korea?

Here are a few pics and closeup of the movement. 17 jewel handwind.

First three characters on the movement 모 란봉 translates to Hill. Which I would assume means Moranbong Hill scenic park.

Seller's pics



























cheers,
gigfy


----------



## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

I have to say it's the first North Korean watch I have ever seen; is the movement an original design?


----------



## linus1908 (Aug 13, 2009)

"Moran Bang" in english is "Moran Montain", Moran is the name, Bang means montain.


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

I have heard of them, yes. I know very little about them but the movement you show is identical to the movement I've seen.


----------



## DSLAM (Apr 26, 2009)

Very cool. I've been interested in any North Korean watches. gigy, where is it being sold?


----------



## Martin_B (Apr 11, 2008)

I've seen one on ebay. I was amazed by the asking price....

Regards,

Martin


----------



## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

DSLAM said:


> Very cool. I've been interested in any North Korean watches. gigy, where is it being sold?


I would also like to know, could you please tell us where to buy them?


----------



## linsook (Aug 2, 2008)

i would like to know more about the movement.


----------



## CzechMate (Sep 11, 2009)

Found on ebay. Terribly overpriced IMHO - 275USD.


----------



## soviet (Feb 8, 2006)

Hi gigfy,

I do not only have heard of it, but also own one.:-d I have an even rare 19 jewels Seagull that has a similar PIN lever movement that looks similar to this Korean movement. The Korea 17 jewels movement however has a jewelled lever.


----------



## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

Martin_B said:


> I've seen one on ebay. I was amazed by the asking price....
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Martin





CzechMate said:


> Found on ebay. Terribly overpriced IMHO - 275USD.


You guys have found it. And yes, it is very pricey! About 6-7 times more than I would pay. :-(

cheers,
gigfy


----------



## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

soviet said:


> Hi gigfy,
> 
> I do not only have heard of it, but also own one.:-d I have an even rare 19 jewels Seagull that has a similar PIN lever movement that looks similar to this Korean movement. The Korea 17 jewels movement however has a jewelled lever.


Thanks! I bet you got yours for just a few RMB. :-!

cheers,
gigfy


----------



## linus1908 (Aug 13, 2009)

gigfy said:


> You guys have found it. And yes, it is very pricey! About 6-7 times more than I would pay. :-(
> 
> cheers,
> gigfy


In other words, the North Korean people should be rich.o|


----------



## soviet (Feb 8, 2006)

gigfy said:


> Thanks! I bet you got yours for just a few RMB. :-!
> 
> cheers,
> gigfy


I forgot the price, but I usually don't pay more than 50 RMB for something like this. I will post an image of 3 similar movements from this Korean one, the 19 jewels Seagull, and from a Founda brand watch when I have time.


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

I'd love to know the story behind the establishment of the Moranbong Watch Factory in Pyongyang. When did production begin, and what (if any) foreign assistance was provided?

The movement is essentially a copy of the Semag ES95, the final and highest-grade version of the old ES series of cheap 'Swiss ebauche' movement often finished in Hong Kong. The ES95 has a jewelled-lever escapement, finer balance-wheel, shockproofing and a fully-jewelled train. So its not bad but it is still the top of the lowest grade and a step below the next tier of Swiss generics such as the FHF/ST-96 (itself somewhat inferior to the Chinese Standard Movement).

The Moranbong movement is different enough that I don't believe the North Koreans were simply buying parts from George von Burg's companies. The differences are as follows:
- a more robust click mechanism on the crown wheel
- an extra screw on the train bridge (where the inscriptions are usually located on the Swiss-sourced movements)
- a finer balance-wheel than even the best versions of the ES

So did the Moranbong engineers:

a. reverse-engineer the ES95 and adapt it to suit their own manufacturing processes?
b. buy the obsolete tooling from the Swiss in the mid-1980s and modify the design?
c. receive technical assistance from a George von Burg company?

How will we ever find out the truth?


----------



## Pawl_Buster (Mar 12, 2007)

I thought I recognized that movement. It does look very like the ES95 but less decorated.


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Here's another that turned up recently on Taobao


----------



## soviet (Feb 8, 2006)

Chascomm said:


> I'd love to know the story behind the establishment of the Moranbong Watch Factory in Pyongyang. When did production begin, and what (if any) foreign assistance was provided?
> 
> The movement is essentially a copy of the Semag ES95, the final and highest-grade version of the old ES series of cheap 'Swiss ebauche' movement often finished in Hong Kong. The ES95 has a jewelled-lever escapement, finer balance-wheel, shockproofing and a fully-jewelled train. So its not bad but it is still the top of the lowest grade and a step below the next tier of Swiss generics such as the FHF/ST-96 (itself somewhat inferior to the Chinese Standard Movement).
> 
> ...


Thanks Chascomm for an education of the movement's background.|> Here is an image of 3 versions of this movement. So the 19 jewels Seagull is in fact the most base one of the three?


----------



## McSh5 (Feb 4, 2010)

모란봉 translates to Peoni Hill. "봉" does not mean mountain - "산" is mountain. The "Peoni" part is an asian flower - you can find pictures online.

also, in the Roman phonetic it's not spelled "bang", it's spelled "bong". Bong (봉) is "hill". Bang (방) is "room".

source: living in Korea, my dictionary.

edit: And here is a little history from Korean wikipedia: http://translate.google.com/transla.../wiki/%EB%AA%A8%EB%9E%80%EB%B4%89&sl=ko&tl=en


----------



## Pawl_Buster (Mar 12, 2007)

soviet said:


> Thanks Chascomm for an education of the movement's background.|> Here is an image of 3 versions of this movement. So the 19 jewels Seagull is in fact the most base one of the three?


The one on the left looks just like the ES95 I found in a Chun Lei branded watch...


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

So 'Moran' in Korean means the same as 'Mudan' in Chinese?


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

soviet said:


> Thanks Chascomm for an education of the movement's background.|> Here is an image of 3 versions of this movement. So the 19 jewels Seagull is in fact the most base one of the three?


That's what I think. In fact I would even go so far as to doubt that it even has 19 jewels.

Was it Alpha-Getty who has one like this? If I recall correctly, his had '17 jewels' in the small Swiss inscription as well as the larger '19 jewels' inscription. Given the lack of cap jewels and the use of pin-pallets, I would guess this watch actually has only 14 or 15 jewels. Maybe it is a unique Hong Kong hybrid of the 17-jewel and 1-jewel specifications. Possibly '19 jewels' is intended to match the jewel count of the genuine Tianjin-made ST5.


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

More pictures of the ES series for comparison:

*ES95* made in Switzerland








http://www.christophlorenz.de/watch/movements/s/semag/semag_es_95.php?l=en

*ES53*? Swiss parts finished in Germany








http://www.christophlorenz.de/watch/movements/unknown/unknown_swiss_parts_kienzle.php?l=en

*ES55* Swiss parts finished in Hong Kong








http://www.christophlorenz.de/watch/movements/p/pg_time/pg_time_e355.php?l=en

Notice how none of these versions, neither split-plate or 3/4-plate, have a plate screw located adjacent to the click mechanism, as per the Moranbong.

The other subtle difference is the watch the holes for the train bearings, whether jewelled or not, are more widely chamfered on the ES compared to the Moranbong.


----------



## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

AT and I both have the same Chunlei. IIRC, I got them from tomyana (eBay).

https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=173959&highlight=chunlei

Here is the seller's pics.



















cheers,
gigfy


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

gigfy said:


> AT and I both have the same Chunlei. IIRC, I got them from tomyana (eBay).
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=173959&highlight=chunlei
> 
> ...


That's almost certainly a 17 jewel ES95 with jewelled-lever escapement, unlike Soviet's Sea-Gull which has a pin-lever.

I'm still of the opinion that these Chinese-branded watches with cheap Swiss movements were assembled in Hong Kong, possibly without the knowledge of the Chinese brand-owners. I am prepared to concede that Shanghai (Chunlei) and Sea-Gull may have built watches with Swiss automatics from ETA and Durowe, these cheaper ones just don't make sense to me as a legitimate or original product.


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

gigfy said:


> AT and I both have the same Chunlei. IIRC, I got them from tomyana (eBay). cheers, gigfy


heh...that's A _*G*_...I don't have that Chunlei...yet ;-)


----------



## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

AlbertaTime said:


> heh...that's A _*G*_...I don't have that Chunlei...yet ;-)


----------



## soviet (Feb 8, 2006)

Chascomm said:


> That's what I think. In fact I would even go so far as to doubt that it even has 19 jewels.
> 
> Was it Alpha-Getty who has one like this? If I recall correctly, his had '17 jewels' in the small Swiss inscription as well as the larger '19 jewels' inscription. Given the lack of cap jewels and the use of pin-pallets, I would guess this watch actually has only 14 or 15 jewels. Maybe it is a unique Hong Kong hybrid of the 17-jewel and 1-jewel specifications. Possibly '19 jewels' is intended to match the jewel count of the genuine Tianjin-made ST5.


I checked the 19 jewels Seagull, and you are correct that the small inscripions say 17 jewels, unadjusted. I have other Swiss made pin lever watches. Borea, Rocar,both 15 jewels 3/4 plate watches.


----------



## saskwatch (Sep 17, 2010)

I recently got this one. On viewing the seller's picture, I thought I was buying a black dial watch. It is hard to photograph this one. In order to get an image of the colours on the fade dial, I get reflections.


----------



## saskwatch (Sep 17, 2010)

I forgot to add this, the English Wikipedia entry:

Moran Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I haven't found any information about the factory yet.


----------



## Silent Speaker (Jan 17, 2009)

And to think that this watch doesn't look like much compared to some of the other things we see on this forum, but to some poor bastard in NK it probably meant the world


----------



## DSLAM (Apr 26, 2009)

Interesting, thanks for the pics!


----------



## Stone Hill (Nov 28, 2009)

Silent Speaker said:


> And to think that this watch doesn't look like much compared to some of the other things we see on this forum, but to some poor bastard in NK it probably meant the world


Some how that is what keeps popping into my head.


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

saskwatch said:


> I recently got this one.


Nice catch and a great piece to have in a collection. The dial is subtle but _cool b-)
_


----------



## saskwatch (Sep 17, 2010)

AlbertaTime said:


> Nice catch and a great piece to have in a collection. The dial is subtle but _cool b-)_


Thanks. Can anyone translate the characters on the back?


----------



## SPE777 (Oct 24, 2008)

Great thread!

So was Moranbong the _only_ watch that was made in North Korea (which I highly doubt) or are these just the only ones that have "escaped"?

(If the latter, wonder why all the Moranbong watches would essentially be the same?)


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

SPE777 said:


> Great thread!
> 
> So was Moranbong the _only_ watch that was made in North Korea (which I highly doubt) or are these just the only ones that have "escaped"?
> 
> (If the latter, wonder why all the Moranbong watches would essentially be the same?)


In spite of the political isolation of the DPRK, they're not entirely cut off from the rest of the planet, so they don't necessarily have to 'make do' with what they can make for themselves. I've seen Chinese mechanical watches, made in Dandong, with dial inscriptions for the DPRK army. I also read somewhere that for more specialist uses, the DPRK forces favoured Seiko (obviously NOT ordered en masse from the Seiko factory). The Swiss origins of the Moranbong design also suggests some ongoing, probably indirect, watch purchasing from the wider world.

These days, it's fair to assume that many cheap Chinese watches would cross the border, although I have to wonder about the regular availability of batteries for quartz watches. Maybe there is a battery factory in North Korea. Even if they only made SR626SW or a dimensional equivalent, that would take care of most simple quartz watches.

As for locally manufactured watches, even if the Romanson joint-venture has been closed down, that still leaves a fully-equipped watch factory in the North. If they are able to buy quantities of some cheap generic movement (e.g. Miyota 2135) on the open market, then there is no reason why some watch manufacturing should not continue.

This is all speculation of course. Is there anybody on this forum who has recently travelled to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

Chascomm said:


> In spite of the political isolation of the DPRK, they're not entirely cut off from the rest of the planet


I've seen some legitimate Moranbong pieces with "Made in DPRK" on them. That strongly suggests export (or at least _intended_ export) somewhere English speaking.


----------



## saskwatch (Sep 17, 2010)

While surfing on Taobao, I saw a listing where someone was selling mechanical watches made in Dandong which, according to the seller, were manufactured for export to North Korea.

I don't have any first-hand knowledge of this, but I have read on several websites that Switzerland has had diplomatic relations with the DPRK since 1974, and North Korea imported $24 million worth of Swiss watches between 1995 and 2004.


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

saskwatch said:


> Thanks. Can anyone translate the characters on the back?


All I can tell is the inscription in the middle says 'Moranbong' and the short inscription at the edge says 'Pyongyang, Korea'. But I only know that because it says the same on the front of the watch :-d I have no idea about the long inscription, but I notice that it is the same as the other Moranbongs in this thread.

However I did notice some differences in the movement of your watch. It appears to be a 7 jewel version with an unjewelled train. The finish is much rougher, and the balance wheel seems to be made of a cheaper material. At a guess I'd say it is probably less resistant to magnetism. Nevertheless, the balance is still finer than the lowest-grade Swiss ES series, and the pallets are jewelled; so the barest essentials of quality have been maintained. These differences remind me of Soviet Type-1 watches made during the war when strategic materials were scarce and the specification of the watch was downgraded to enable output to be maintained. I wonder if there is a similar story here. :think:


----------



## saskwatch (Sep 17, 2010)

Thank you Chascomm for your observations about the movement. I noticed a difference, but I do not have the technical knowledge to describe it the way you have. Another more obvious difference is the lack of any markings, at least that I can see.

I don't know if anyone will be able to answer this question, but was there a shortage of materials at some time that could cause a decision to downgrade the movement? Or, alternatively, could it be a transplanted movement from another watch, and if so what watch?


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

saskwatch said:


> Thank you Chascomm for your observations about the movement. I noticed a difference, but I do not have the technical knowledge to describe it the way you have. Another more obvious difference is the lack of any markings, at least that I can see.
> 
> I don't know if anyone will be able to answer this question, but was there a shortage of materials at some time that could cause a decision to downgrade the movement?


Right now, I think the DPRK is short of just about everything, and it's not the first time. Does anybody here know about when the Moranbong watch factory closed?


> Or, alternatively, could it be a transplanted movement from another watch, and if so what watch?


Comparing it to all the other examples in this thread (particularly looking at the shockproofing, click device and location of screws), my conclusion is that this is a genuine Moranbong movement.


----------



## KrauserII (Nov 15, 2010)

saskwatch said:


> Thanks. Can anyone translate the characters on the back?


Here is a translation based on my rudimentary knowledge of Korean and my wife's native fluency. From top (closest to crown) to bottom of Post #1, Picture #2:

방 타 = Shockproof 
방 슴 = Waterproof
비 자 섬 체 = Non-magnetic material

모 란 봉 = "Peony peak" The name of a mountain in North Korea. 봉 is neither 'mountain' nor 'hill.'

조 선 = Joseon (technically, a Korean dynasty from 1392-1897 that consolidated power in the peninsula, however DPRK refers to itself by this name, similar to how ROK uses the name of another dynasty 'Goryeo')
평 양 = Pyeongyang (capital of North Korea)

Hope this helps.


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

KrauserII said:


> Here is a translation based on my rudimentary knowledge of Korean and my wife's native fluency. ...


I don't recall you here on this forum before, so *WELCOME* to Chinese Mechanical Watches! :-!

Very much appreciate the information. I have one of these watches in transit and I'm pleased for the more subtle translation.

And my thanks to your wife!


----------



## KrauserII (Nov 15, 2010)

AlbertaTime said:


> I don't recall you here on this forum before, so *WELCOME* to Chinese Mechanical Watches! :-!


Thanks very much for the warm welcome! I really like this forum- some incredibly knowledgeable people around and very interesting discussions.



AlbertaTime said:


> Very much appreciate the information. I have one of these watches in transit and I'm pleased for the more subtle translation. And my thanks to your wife!


Thanks for the thanks to the wife- I'll pass it along. Hopefully our gratitude will make up for this morning when I pestered her constantly for more accurate translations (my dictionary gave 'bulletproof' instead of 'shockproof!') 

May I ask where you were able to purchase your watch? I would be very interested in purchasing one if it wasn't outrageously expensive.


----------



## saskwatch (Sep 17, 2010)

Welcome, KrauserII! Thanks to you and your wife for your help. I bought mine on Taobao. The information on AlbertaTime's site was extremely helpful. Here's a link:

Navigating Taobao for Chinese watches


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

saskwatch said:


> The information on AlbertaTime's site was extremely helpful...


Thank you for the kind comment. That's always nice to hear.



KrauserII said:


> Thanks very much for the warm welcome!...May I ask where you were able to purchase your watch? I would be very interested in purchasing one if it wasn't outrageously expensive.


Taobao :-d

saskwatch pointed to how.

This seller seems to have a few. Or you can Taobao search for 朝鲜手卷男表

Good hunting! :-!


----------



## KrauserII (Nov 15, 2010)

AlbertaTime said:


> Thank you for the kind comment. That's always nice to hear.


Seconded! What a great site, especially for a noob like me. Thanks so much for putting the information together in such an accessible and concise way.

I guess I'll bother one of my Chinese reading/speaking friends to order for me- I have a bad feeling that I would be extra incoherent when filtered through google translator.

Such great prices relative to that fleabay auction that was mentioned earlier in the thread! |>


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

KrauserII said:


> Seconded! What a great site, especially for a noob like me. Thanks so much for putting the information together in such an accessible and concise way.
> 
> I guess I'll bother one of my Chinese reading/speaking friends to order for me- I have a bad feeling that I would be extra incoherent when filtered through google translator.
> 
> Such great prices relative to that fleabay auction that was mentioned earlier in the thread! |>


Thanks again, but if you're looking to hunt watches, be sure not to miss the beauties at Ozputera's very informative, wonderfully organized and photographed ozputera.blogspot.com, and Martin_B's collection (_especially_ strong with more modern designs) as well.

And Google translator works pretty well. Go back and forth between two translators (like Google and Bing) to check and refine statements/questions and it's not that hard to keep things reasonable, but if you have Chinese speaking/reading friends, so much the better.


----------



## ozputera (Feb 18, 2010)

KrauserII said:


> Here is a translation based on my rudimentary knowledge of Korean and my wife's native fluency. From top (closest to crown) to bottom of Post #1, Picture #2:
> 
> 방 타 = Shockproof
> 방 슴 = Waterproof
> ...


thanks for the translation. I got one too recently (from Taobao) but has not been working well. Will post the pictures once taken.


----------



## KrauserII (Nov 15, 2010)

ozputera said:


> I got one too recently (from Taobao) but has not been working well.


May I ask about the condition of your watch? Is the issue with the movement or with the case/cosmetics? I'd be much obliged for your feedback- I'd like to buy a couple of Moranbong's through a buying agent soon.

I'm taking the TimeZone level 1 course, and am looking forward to trying out level 2 (disassembly and oiling of date movements) on the Moranbongs. However, if the movements on the available watches tend to be shot, I should probably pick something a bit more robust.


----------



## ozputera (Feb 18, 2010)

KrauserII said:


> May I ask about the condition of your watch? Is the issue with the movement or with the case/cosmetics? I'd be much obliged for your feedback- I'd like to buy a couple of Moranbong's through a buying agent soon.
> 
> I'm taking the TimeZone level 1 course, and am looking forward to trying out level 2 (disassembly and oiling of date movements) on the Moranbongs. However, if the movements on the available watches tend to be shot, I should probably pick something a bit more robust.


KrauserII, FYI, both hands could not go past 10 o'clock index. Or may be 11 o'clock index; I tried to confirm this just now but the stem came off o|


----------



## gigfy (Apr 13, 2007)

Please follow forum rules and do not discuss politics.

http://www.watchuseek.com/forum-rules-and-guidelines

cheers,
gigfy


----------



## cmeisenzahl (Mar 10, 2006)

That's a first for me, never saw one before.


----------



## KrauserII (Nov 15, 2010)

ozputera said:


> KrauserII, FYI, both hands could not go past 10 o'clock index. Or may be 11 o'clock index; I tried to confirm this just now but the stem came off o|


Sorry to hear- that sucks! Do you think you'll try to tinker with the watch/reseat the hands?

I want to buy a couple of moranbongs, disassemble and lubricate them. However, I'm a newcomer to watch repair, so if they're typically in poor shape, maybe I should look elsewhere.


----------



## chrisbo28 (Jan 11, 2011)

If you wanna buy a Moran-bong, there is one for sale on taobao: ¡¾É.ÒÇÐù¡¿³¯ÏÊ¡¾Äµµ¤·å¡¿¹Å¶.ÊÖ±íÖ®¶þ-ÌÔ±¦Íø Unfortunately in poor condition and a bit overprized I guess. :roll:


----------



## McSh5 (Feb 4, 2010)

I have like 7 North Korean watches, most of them Moranbong if anyone is interested...PM me.

edit: Picture as requested.

That one with the textured bezel is a commemorative watch given to those who aided in the construction of a capital building in 1992.


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Shane112358 said:


> I have like 7 North Korean watches, most of them Moranbong if anyone is interested...PM me.
> 
> edit: Picture as requested.
> 
> That one with the textured bezel is a commemorative watch given to those who aided in the construction of a capital building in 1992.


Nice collection! |>


----------



## McSh5 (Feb 4, 2010)

Better photos. I gave the red strapped version in the original group photo to the wife....we've been to North Korea and lived in South Korea so these pieces really strike a chord with us. It's quite nice, I think she got the pic of the crop. I think I'm going to keep the one that says "Made in DPRK" at 6, and the rest I'm going to sell on eBay. If anyone is interested before I do let me know.


----------



## halfapie (Jul 29, 2008)

This thread is really interesting to me (a South Korean) because I did not know that North Korea made watches.



KrauserII said:


> Here is a translation based on my rudimentary knowledge of Korean and my wife's native fluency. From top (closest to crown) to bottom of Post #1, Picture #2:
> 
> 방 타 = Shockproof
> 방 슴 = Waterproof
> ...


As a native Korean speaker I can confirm the translation is correct. 

봉 is indeed peak (top of mountain), not mountain or hill. We Koreans like to name the peak of each mountain separately.


----------



## leicamaster (Jul 3, 2012)

I found one on TaoBao:

Google Translate


----------



## Will_f (Jul 4, 2011)

Can't load the page


Will


----------



## tlstkdqkdwl (Apr 19, 2013)

Chascomm said:


> Nice collection! |>


hello. i'm south korean and living in south korea.

i want get north korean watch, and looking for that.

so i found your mention.

can i buy one of your moranbong watch?

email me please.

i even register this site for my moranbong watch.

[email protected]


----------



## James Haury (Apr 10, 2008)

Is that a corroded brass case back?


----------



## Pawl_Buster (Mar 12, 2007)

James Haury said:


> Is that a corroded brass case back?


The case back appears to be brushed stainless steel but the case itself is chrome plated base metal; likely brass or an alloy.


----------



## saskwatch (Sep 17, 2010)

I found this photo of Moranbong Watch Factory when I was looking for something else. It was taken from an English language book published in the DPRK in 1980.


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

saskwatch said:


> I found this photo of Moranbong Watch Factory when I was looking for something else. It was taken from an English language book published in the DPRK in 1980.


Well done, Sleuth


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

1980! Interesting... :think: The ES 95 was still being made in Switzerland and parts were being assembled in Hong Kong until the mid 1980s, but this photo demonstrates that Moranbong watches were being made before that time, so that eliminates the possibility of them being built on obsolete tooling.

We can also eliminate the possibility that these watches were simply assembled from Swiss parts because of the design differences noted elsewhere in this thread.

That leave two remaining possibilities:
- a Swiss-DPRK joint-venture to develop watchmaking in Pyongyang
- a completely reverse-engineered (clone) design.


----------



## Thrax (Oct 6, 2012)

Given the historical propensity of Communist countries to relentlessly copy the west, I suspect the clone design is the significantly more likely option.


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Thrax said:


> Given the historical propensity of Communist countries to relentlessly copy the west, I suspect the clone design is the significantly more likely option.


Well it's not quite so simple when it comes to something as complex as watch manufacturing, especially when starting the industry from nothing.

In the USSR, complete watch manufacturing was initiated by buying a complete factory from the USA. The first chronograph wristwatches were made by claiming an entire German factory as war reparations. The famous Strela chronograph was derived from an equipment purchase from Switzerland. The 3133 chronograph was the result of another equipment purchase from Switzerland. Also, where foreign designs were used, usually some modifications were made to improve performance (e.g. Poljot 3133 faster beat) or durability (e.g. Poljot 2612, 3133 more jewels, more metal) or to enhance functionality (3133 date, Vostok 2809 sweep seconds).

In China, the first complete wristwatch (Tianjin Wuxing) was reverse-engineered from a foreign design, but the result was not really satisfactory. The first effective watch manufacturing was the result of equipment purchases from Swiss companies such as A.Schild, FHF and Roamer. Only after that were original local designs viable (e.g. Tianjin ST5).

If the Moranbong factory really did reverse-engineer the movement design without external help, as well as incorporate certain design enhancements then that stands as a truly remarkable achievement. I suspect that they might have bought in the balance wheels and hairsprings from somewhere else. Perhaps from China. The Nanjing SN-2 seems a likely match. But that's just my guess.


----------



## martback (Feb 11, 2006)

saskwatch said:


> I found this photo of Moranbong Watch Factory when I was looking for something else. It was taken from an English language book published in the DPRK in 1980.


To find a photo of a DPRK watch factory while looking for something else would be a bit worrying (or at least surprising depending on what you were looking for).

- martin


----------



## daomoniker (Jan 28, 2015)

These are even cooler to me now that seiko is apparently more prevalent in the country.


----------



## J. F. Sebastian (Aug 25, 2014)

In a funny coincidence, I just read this thread yesterday after stumbling across one of these on eBay! Unfortunately, it looks like the listing ended overnight.  I have to say, I'm surprised at how much it went for: US$102.50! The same seller has another watch listed, commemorating the 20th anniversary of the DPRK, but the movement looks to be an automatic tongji, not the Swiss-ish movement seen on Moranbongs. The seller has a lot of other North Korean paraphernalia for sale, so you might want to keep an eye on their listings in case another Moranbong comes up, or perhaps you could even message them and ask if they have any more.


----------



## mrphotoman (Dec 9, 2014)

Here is one made in China for a North Korean officer (according to them)

China Made Mechanical Watch for North Korea Military Special Edition | eBay


----------



## daomoniker (Jan 28, 2015)

I was amazed too when that beat one shot up to 100USD, J. F.


----------



## Cjw (7 mo ago)

McSh5 said:


> Better photos. I gave the red strapped version in the original group photo to the wife....we've been to North Korea and lived in South Korea so these pieces really strike a chord with us. It's quite nice, I think she got the pic of the crop. I think I'm going to keep the one that says "Made in DPRK" at 6, and the rest I'm going to sell on eBay. If anyone is interested before I do let me know.


 Bit late but.. any left?


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

I notice my Moranbong isn't in this thread, so just for completeness...


----------



## DSLAM (Apr 26, 2009)

AlbertaTime said:


> I notice my Moranbong isn't in this thread, so just for completeness...
> 
> View attachment 16695749


Cool, how does it run?


----------



## DSLAM (Apr 26, 2009)

Cjw said:


> Bit late but.. any left?


Who knows, have to search, I guess. I just checked ebay, but no Moranbang.


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

DSLAM said:


> Cool, how does it run?


I don't wear it much but I haven't noticed a problem with it.

Here's my original post on the watch:









Meanwhile, in North Korea they make Moranbong...


here's the pix of my new arrival. It's a bit beat up but it runs... I don't know much about these watches. I think the very worn out crown might/could be original since I've seen other old Moranbongs with the same rounded crown, but others have something much newer looking and less...




www.watchuseek.com


----------



## saskwatch (Sep 17, 2010)

Thanks Ron. Now I noticed that the picture I added is missing. 



saskwatch said:


> I found this photo of Moranbong Watch Factory when I was looking for something else. It was taken from an English language book published in the DPRK in 1980.


Here it is:










Something else I found: A 2019 New York Times article about Moranbong watches.


----------



## saskwatch (Sep 17, 2010)

Apparently this image appeared with the NYT article, but it doesn't appear in the archived version I linked


----------



## Splitlivez (Jun 15, 2021)

Do you guys think that one can swap a moranbong movement with an ES95?


----------



## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Splitlivez said:


> Do you guys think that one can swap a moranbong movement with an ES95?


No guarantees but I think it is likely.


----------



## Splitlivez (Jun 15, 2021)

Chascomm said:


> No guarantees but I think it is likely.


If you were to swap the movement which would you choose?


----------



## Splitlivez (Jun 15, 2021)

I bought recently a Moranbong watch, and had a lot of problems restoring it. It was a success eventually, so I wanted to share this with anyone whoever plans to get it

The movement

The watch is a clone of the ES96 (not the 95), because the ES95 comes without a date wheel.

The case

The case is made out of brass which is nickel plated, so you can't polish.

Can you replace completely the movement with an ES96 or an ES95 with a date wheel?

Yes you can, without any issues whatsoever. You can buy these movements brand new, and install them directly. Most of the watches you'll find will have problems inside, and there are no spare parts for it, since the factory closed down in the 80s


Can you use parts from the ES96 or ES95 movements to repair an original Moranbong movement?

No you can't. Its a clone of the movement, but there are tiny differences inside it, that wouldn't make it possible. I think the North Koreans reverse engineered the original movement.

How to restore the case?

The nickel or chrome has to be scraped off the brass, then it needs to get nickel plated, then you can plate it with rhodium or chromium. I chose rhodium.

What about the Quartz Moranbong watches?

These are Chinese watches, the North Koreans never had a Quartz industry.

Is there any other thing odd about the watch?

Yes it is very susceptible to magnetic fields, even from adjacent watches. If there's a strong magnetic field, you'll notice that its running faster. Remove it from that location so that it doesn't get magnetised.


----------



## guandotyu (Aug 17, 2021)

I just realized I didn't post photos of Moranbong I have in hand here. It's heavily scratched but working. I asked for the cost of the service and I was quoted $600 USD. So nope out.


----------



## Splitlivez (Jun 15, 2021)

Mine after restoration


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

guandotyu said:


> I just realized I didn't post photos of Moranbong I have in hand here. It's heavily scratched but working. I asked for the cost of the service and I was quoted $600 USD. So nope out.
> 
> View attachment 16787032
> 
> ...


it looks very used, but it looks intact--and that makes it a survivor. They're not easy to come by and they have a cool story. Very pleased that you have one in your collection.


----------



## AlbertaTime (Dec 27, 2008)

Splitlivez said:


> View attachment 16787048
> 
> 
> 
> Mine after restoration


Good job. Looks great.


----------



## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

Splitlivez said:


> View attachment 16787048
> 
> 
> 
> Mine after restoration


Thanks for sharing. Very cool story and even cooler how you managed to restore it. I have been searching for one but most of them are Chinese knock offs in quartz. Well done and enjoy your watch


----------



## Splitlivez (Jun 15, 2021)

BundyBear said:


> Thanks for sharing. Very cool story and even cooler how you managed to restore it. I have been searching for one but most of them are Chinese knock offs in quartz. Well done and enjoy your watch


If you want I can hook you up with the collector I brought from. I made him make it as an ebay listing, and by default payment was through PayPal. He has 7 moranbongs by now, 2 of which are in a decent condition


----------



## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

Splitlivez said:


> If you want I can hook you up with the collector I brought from. I made him make it as an ebay listing, and by default payment was through PayPal. He has 7 moranbongs by now, 2 of which are in a decent condition


PM'd.


----------



## hillda4 (Aug 7, 2016)

Splitlivez said:


> If you want I can hook you up with the collector I brought from. I made him make it as an ebay listing, and by default payment was through PayPal. He has 7 moranbongs by now, 2 of which are in a decent condition


I too am interested. IIRC there was a time when North and South Korea were cooperating industrially along the DMZ in certain factories, in an attempt to boost relations. Maybe some of these watches escaped?


----------



## johnkey68 (Nov 8, 2021)

https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005004361571668.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2rus&sku_id=12000028906845971


----------



## BundyBear (Mar 3, 2018)

johnkey68 said:


> https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005004361571668.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2rus&sku_id=12000028906845971


I think this is a quartz remake. Not the real thing.


----------

