# Authorized Dealer or Grey Market?



## edwyun (Sep 9, 2012)

So I've done the research and decided to purchase a JLC Reverso 976.

I understand that buying from an AD means original box, papers, and 2-year manufacturer's warranty. I will also know that it is the real deal. Some ADs add an additional year of their own warranty. Not a real biggie. While an AD may give a discount, it's usually not a much as with a grey market dealer.

I also understand that buying from a grey market dealer means taking your chances on it being the real deal, that there is no manufacturer's warranty, and that you have to make sure you get all the box, papers, etc. But they usually offer the best price - some very deep. In the end, I guess I have to weigh the lower initial cost with the potential for having to pay for any repairs during the initial 2 years.

So I have a few questions:

1. How great is the risk of a fake Reverso? Are there many out there? Are they easy to spot?
2. How can you check if a B&M store is an authorized dealer - the JLC website appears to be outdated, or the B&M store I spoke to that says it is an AD is not telling the truth.
3. Are there authorized re-sellers in addition to authorized dealers?
4. What boxes, papers, etc., should come with a watch that is the real deal?
5. How can you confirm if it comes with a manufacturer's warranty - I assume a warranty card, with printed model number, and AD stamp of some sort?
6. Do you normally get a watch that is untouched by prospective buyers if you go grey market? One AD said that they could provide one.

I guess it goes without saying that, if you go grey market, go with a respectable B&M store that's been in business for a long time and has a reputation to keep.

Thanks for your help for a newbie!


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## Jiman (Apr 14, 2012)

edwyun said:


> So I've done the research and decided to purchase a JLC Reverso 976.
> 
> I understand that buying from an AD means original box, papers, and 2-year manufacturer's warranty. I will also know that it is the real deal. Some ADs add an additional year of their own warranty. Not a real biggie. While an AD may give a discount, it's usually not a much as with a grey market dealer.
> 
> ...


I'll take a shot although I'm sure others will come along to provide more/better info:


I've seen many. Didn't particularly pay attention to specific models, because I was concentrating on the MC Navy Seal line. Google is your friend for this search.
Dont know. I agee JLC's website leaves a lot to be desired. I did register myself and with that you can email their concierge service. They will give you good intel.
Recognized by JLC?...no.
Dont know regarding the Reverso. My MC came with: Outer cardboard, inner cardboard, watch box, watch, springbar tool, and three booklets (one being the warranty "card").
The booklet has to have name, date, model info, and most importantly the AD stamp. Card holds no value without AD stamp.
Im sure that depends on a ton of different variables...how many in stock, how big the business is, if the watch you happened get was returned for whatever reason, luck, etc...

IMO, it goes without saying that you always buy the seller not the watch. Doesn't have to be a store per se...there are many on the forums that are very well respected. Depending on how they purchased the piece, it might even come with a card stamped by an AD, with warranty still left on the card, and no name filled in :-d

Good luck...searching is most of the fun in this silly hobby:-! Rob


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## edwyun (Sep 9, 2012)

That's some good info. Thanks.

I am waiting for an updated AD list in my area from JLC Concierge.


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## Chrono DV (Aug 31, 2012)

Does an "Authorized Agent" exist? I know someone who claims to be this, but not sure if it's recognized by JLC.


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## GaryF (Dec 18, 2009)

While I'd be relaxed about going grey market with some brands, I don't think I'd take any chances with J-LC. Should something go wrong, I'd only feel comfortable letting J-LC technicians poke around so, for me, it's important to maintain a relationship with the company through its agents. Any doubts and I think I'd want to scoot on- even if it meant paying a little extra.


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## edwyun (Sep 9, 2012)

@GaryF:

If I did purchase a real JLC watch from grey market, I would expect that I could have it repaired at JLC's offices in TX or have it shipped to Switzerland. As grey market, during the first 2 years of ownership, I would then have to pay for the costs for the repair and shipping. I could arrange to have that done through any AD so long as the watch is real, correct?

Also, I would imagine that the risk and cost of any repairs during those first 2 years would be less than the money I would save by going grey market. If nothing happens during the first 2 years, I've save money. If I have to have it repaired, I would perhaps save a few bucks. I think that's a chance many are willing to take.

I'm not sure which side of the equation I'm on right now. Hence my questions.

I wonder if anyone has had to repair a grey market JLC watch in the first 2 years of ownership. I mean, they are all supposed to be tested before distribution, correct?

Not sure if my assumptions are correct.


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## jnelson3097 (Mar 28, 2010)

I'd price the watch out at an AD and then determine how much money you'll save by going grey market. My guess is the prices may not be too far off and then you get all the paperwork with it from the AD. Some grey market sites won't give you the warranty papers. In the end, I'd still stick with an AD, and there's a great JLC not too far from you in Philadelphia.


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## GaryF (Dec 18, 2009)

You can probably still get a reasonable discount from an AD and there are hypothetical issues which might crop up which could easily cost you more than the money you'd save.



edwyun said:


> @GaryF:
> 
> If I did purchase a real JLC watch from grey market, I would expect that I could have it repaired at JLC's offices in TX or have it shipped to Switzerland. As grey market, during the first 2 years of ownership, I would then have to pay for the costs for the repair and shipping. I could arrange to have that done through any AD so long as the watch is real, correct?
> 
> ...


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## edwyun (Sep 9, 2012)

GaryF said:


> You can probably still get a reasonable discount from an AD and there are hypothetical issues which might crop up which could easily cost you more than the money you'd save.


Like what hypothetical issues? =)


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## GaryF (Dec 18, 2009)

Well, it's impossible to say since we don't know the difference between the price offered by your grey dealer and the price that a generous AD might offer.
But take the crystal for instance. Someone on Omega was recently quoted over $1000 for a cracked crystal. I had the same job done by a well-disposed AD for free (for scratched AR), even though they could perfectly reasonably have said that it wasn't a warranty issue.
In both cases, it was the customer who did the damage but imagine that the watch had a damaged crystal when you unboxed it. If you are buying grey, you will not know the source (and there is more than one way that a watch can end up on the grey market). We have seen damaged watches (which were possibly returned items) making their way into customers' hands through unauthorised dealers. 

The trouble with straying into hypotheticals, though, is that they are meaningless. A watch might have no problems or it might have many, each of which drive up the cost of repair. You can't know.

All I'm saying is that, since I would only want JLC watchmakers working on my watch, I would not buy a new one without a warranty that I knew I could make use of in the event of a problem.


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## edwyun (Sep 9, 2012)

@GaryF:
Yeah, I see your point about potential issues. Hypos are good though!


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## edwyun (Sep 9, 2012)

The JLC concierge provided me with a list of current ADs in NY, NJ and PA. It is more than what was available on the JLC website (when it was working a few weeks ago). Nice!


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## NWP627 (Feb 24, 2008)

edwyun said:


> The JLC concierge provided me with a list of current ADs in NY, NJ and PA. It is more than what was available on the JLC website (when it was working a few weeks ago). Nice!


During the past year three JLC ADs have stopped selling JLC in North Eastern NJ.


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## EdPowers (Dec 8, 2012)

While watch shopping recently I was looking at an IWC Portuguese chronograph. The chronograph wouldn't reset exactly to zero and had to be pulled out of the dealers case and returned for repair. I remember thinking to myself I'm glad I hadn't just bought this watch online.


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## fareastcoast (Dec 10, 2012)

Take a look at my experience here:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f419/typical-discounts-jlc-master-control-787377.html

Basically, the US JLC grey market is not very attractive with the typical discount being 20%. In short, I was able to get the same discount from an AD. I think this particular AD could be a special case, as most are not really willing to negotiate. PM me if you want the AD details.


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## edeag3 (Nov 6, 2011)

Hope it's not too late but as someone who's owned 6 reversos and bought from a variety of sources here's my answer:

1. How great is the risk of a fake Reverso? Are there many out there? Are they easy to spot?
Fake Reversos do exist never seen one in person and should be relatively easy to spot given the fact that most Reversos house reverso-specific movements, making it quite difficult to shoehorn a seagull movement inside while maintaining the dimensions. For the 976, this is pretty much a nonissue since it has a display back

2. How can you check if a B&M store is an authorized dealer - the JLC website appears to be outdated, or the B&M store I spoke to that says it is an AD is not telling the truth.
As Jiman said, ask JLC ([email protected])

3. Are there authorized re-sellers in addition to authorized dealers?
Nope

4. What boxes, papers, etc., should come with a watch that is the real deal?
If the watch is new, a Reverso 976 should come with an outer cardboard box, an inner hard box (lined in this leatherette stuff), the manual, the warranty card (probably blank, but may not come if it's grey market). Reversos don't typically come with a spring bar tool, loupe, or any fancy stuff.

5. How can you confirm if it comes with a manufacturer's warranty - I assume a warranty card, with printed model number, and AD stamp of some sort?
A stamped warranty card that's properly and fully filled out usually works. Sometimes Grey market items come stamped so I'm not sure if they will honor it if you just don't mention that it was bought grey.

6. Do you normally get a watch that is untouched by prospective buyers if you go grey market? One AD said that they could provide one.
yes ADs can usually order an "untouched" watch for you, Grey market sellers source from dealers, but history can be mixed.

If you're buying grey market, check with the BBB for reputation.
Also, if you're looking to save money, buying used is always a good option.
The 976 is a great choice, if you have the wrist for it, which I unfortunately do not.


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

edeag3 said:


> Hope it's not too late but as someone who's owned 6 reversos and bought from a variety of sources here's my answer:
> 
> 1. How great is the risk of a fake Reverso? Are there many out there? Are they easy to spot?
> Fake Reversos do exist never seen one in person and should be relatively easy to spot given the fact that most Reversos house reverso-specific movements, making it quite difficult to shoehorn a seagull movement inside while maintaining the dimensions. For the 976, this is pretty much a nonissue since it has a display back
> ...


I can only agree with you


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