# Pagani Design PD-1639 - how can that price be real???



## crAss (Nov 11, 2018)

I got into Chinese watches mainly because I thought the price in comparison with the offering was really good. And now I got across this watch. I bought it in an impulse for 54.86 euro from Ali (amazon UK price is around 110 euros) and this price includes:
- Seiko NH35 automatic movement (I saw a listing with a miyota movement as well)
- 316 stainless steel case 
- Ceramic bezel insert 
- Solid links/solid endlinks 
- Sapphire crystal
- 10 Atm water resistance (at least another member in the Aliexpress thread says he has swam a couple of times in a pool with no troubles - I want the water resistance for surface swimming and this seems to be capable of that).
If you like the design, what else would you want from a watch?
It will replace my Tevise T801, mainly because it will be a usable automatic and water resistant.

The thing is what can the Chinese do more than this? The Tevise T802A is a fully working automatic watch for ~20 euros, this Pagani shows what can be accomplished for 55 euros and in the ~90 euro mark you get the parnis diver with all that this pagani has to offer (with a miyota movement) but with real 20 atm water resistance.

I would like to see what a 150 euro Chinese watch could offer...


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## SILES89 (Jul 22, 2017)

I read the post a couple of times until I realized you're talking Pagani Design, not Porsche Design


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## Desk-bound (Sep 4, 2019)

crAss said:


> The thing is what can the Chinese do more than this?


i actually prefer the smaller 40mm subs.
Carnival looks and sounds better quality from Vid Reviews for around the same price 
but hey, if that Pagani makes you happy, who is anyone to judge.



crAss said:


> I would like to see what a 150 euro Chinese watch could offer...


in the vicinity of the 150 Euros, you are looking at
San Martin/Heimdallr/Steeldive
Reef Tiger
An Entry level Seagull/BWAF
Red Star Chrono
Sugess Chrono
Aidophedo moonphase chrono

Happy Huntin'


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## seungbum81 (Jul 3, 2019)

All the technical spec is perfect.
But I still don't know why they don't attract me.
design? color?


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## crAss (Nov 11, 2018)

I just opened the package yesterday. I am genuinely impressed. I think this will be the last sub 100 Euro watch in my collection for some time. I started with a tevise t801 and ended with this after about 15 watches.
The style is always more than a bit subjective, but what I see in this watch is remarkable even unbelievable for 50 Euros. There is not a single thing I would want more and this watch does not have.
The only downside I see is the prices going up, because if someone did not know and found this watch in a window of a proper shop in Europe or US I believe he could pay for 200 Euros and still be happy for a cost effective purchase...

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk


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## SILES89 (Jul 22, 2017)

Seems like this one completely vanished off AliExpress.


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## crAss (Nov 11, 2018)

It is still available but prices have gone up. Most probably to advertise a bigger sale on the big sale coming up in November.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/4emlS5zI

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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

SILES89 said:


> Seems like this one completely vanished off AliExpress.


Umm...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_55
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_55
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_55
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_55


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## SILES89 (Jul 22, 2017)

Monkey_like_watch said:


> Umm...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_55
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_55
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_55
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_55


My bad, I had this confused with the Tag Heuer rip off.


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## The Watch Ho (Aug 16, 2019)

I like my Pagani D!


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## Mrs Wiggles (Nov 7, 2018)

crAss said:


> I got into Chinese watches mainly because I thought the price in comparison with the offering was really good. And now I got across this watch. I bought it in an impulse for 54.86 euro from Ali (amazon UK price is around 110 euros) and this price includes:
> - Seiko NH35 automatic movement (I saw a listing with a miyota movement as well)
> - 316 stainless steel case
> - Ceramic bezel insert
> ...


Yes, amazing. It looks like the watch in question is now $74, but that is still incredible. Sapphire crystal, NH35 movement, ceramic insert, and 100m WR. I own the Parnis 200m diver, and I rate it amongst the best of my collection. I also own a Sharkey Turtle, which costs a little more. Of course, many watch enthusiasts hate the Chinese for producing high spec watches at low prices, because it goes against everything they believe. For example, I own a Seiko SkX009, which is a nice watch, however the movement is inaccurate, the bracelet is cheap, and the window is Hardlex. Both my Parnis and Sharkey divers are better watches, and cost less than half the price. There are those people on this site who will still tell you how much better the Seiko is, but will not be able to tell you why


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## Bart.-Jeroen (Jan 6, 2014)

Had a hard time choosing so I got both. Finish and detailing are just stunning at this pricepoint, they both run around +4 which is also great. Could as well be a couple of hundred bucks watch.









The dust is not inside ;-)

Only minor downside for me: I don't like tapered bracelets, prefer straight.


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## Bart.-Jeroen (Jan 6, 2014)

Owhhh the green one looks even better on a vintage leather nato


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## coachstu (Jun 8, 2019)

I am going to start a thread on this watch. I ordered one of these. What I got was an "alleged" miyota movement, aluminum bezel, hardlex crystal. A complete fraud as the seller changed the listing several weeks after I ordered the watch. It says PD1639 on back, but clearly not what was advertised. I guess I wouldn't believe that what you got is what you think you got.


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## crAss (Nov 11, 2018)

The watch I received had all what I wrote about in the first post. I haven't checked only the water resistant part. Next summer I will go swimming with it!

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk


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## coachstu (Jun 8, 2019)

crAss said:


> The watch I received had all what I wrote about in the first post. I haven't checked only the water resistant part. Next summer I will go swimming with it!
> 
> Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk


The new 1639

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAGANI-DES...var=563825399433&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


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## DSX (Oct 10, 2013)

I don't know how the price can be real, but I'm happy it is. 

Rolex ----------------------Pagani Design
Sapphire glass-------------Sapphire glass
Ceramic bezel--------------Ceramic bezel
Reliable swiss movement--Reliable japanese movement
904L steel------------------916L steel
+$10.000------------------$60-70

Talk about value for money. Sure Rolex has 300m water resistance, but who would dive with a $ 10.000 watch?


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## Mr Floppy (Dec 21, 2019)

It's a nice looking watch for sure. There is a comparison with an Invicta diver on Youtube that may interest you


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## Oodles_of_Hami (May 31, 2019)

I really like some of the Chinese "brands" like Corgeut, Parnis and Pagani Designs. I have a Corgeut "Black Bay" and it is great! Also have a Corgeut "Seamaster". They're both pretty stunning in their own right. The only drawback in my opinion is that you can hear the rotor a little when it's swinging around.


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## bolts40 (Mar 27, 2017)

I ordered mine on November 27. It arrived on 12/31 and I couldn't be happier. It's running +5 per day and looks great. The only issue I would look out for is this: mine arrived with ALL of the bracelet screws not screwed down tightly. Certainly would rather have a glide lock clasp but for $65 (Ebay), I'm not complaining.









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## composer (Jun 12, 2019)

bolts40 said:


> I ordered mine on November 27. It arrived on 12/31 and I couldn't be happier. It's running +5 per day and looks great. The only issue I would look out for is this: mine arrived with ALL of the bracelet screws not screwed down tightly. Certainly would rather have a glide lock clasp but for $65 (Ebay), I'm not complaining.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice watch!


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## bolts40 (Mar 27, 2017)

Lume shot. The lume on this Pagani Design Sub is not good. It's somewhat bright for a minute or so, then it fades, quickly. In pitch dark you can still see it for few hours but it's not bright...at all. This is the only major drawback of this watch. Again...for $65, I'll take it!









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## WindyCityWatch (Dec 24, 2019)

Bart.-Jeroen said:


> Had a hard time choosing so I got both. Finish and detailing are just stunning at this pricepoint, they both run around +4 which is also great. Could as well be a couple of hundred bucks watch.
> 
> View attachment 14664257
> 
> ...


I also got the two tone Blue-Gold... and I was so tempted to get the Black-Gold like you. Mine came with a misalign bezel, but hey, can't complain too much.

One other gripe that I didn't see on here yet is the 90 click bezel..... I mean, it's only an issue when timing a pizza or parking meter, but still annoying

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## composer (Jun 12, 2019)

What is the lug to lug distance of this watch? 43mm might be a little too large for my 6.5 in. wrist, but depending on the lug to lug distance it might work..


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## fyioska (Nov 24, 2019)

composer said:


> What is the lug to lug distance of this watch? 43mm might be a little too large for my 6.5 in. wrist, but depending on the lug to lug distance it might work..


You'll be fine, I have a slightly smaller wrist and everything under 45-46 is ok on me.

Depends how you wear them though I guess!

Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk


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## popatha (Aug 20, 2012)

Not bad for the price


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## Ipse (Mar 29, 2018)

Let me be "that" guy and give you my 2 cents on this PD-1639 based on my experience.
- the botched NH35 în mine has an amplitude of 190deg only. A first in crappy autos for me
- abysmal bracelet finish, I had to flip mine to avoid seeing the 2 very poorly finished links (the last 2 close to the case)
- advertised and depicted on Aliex as "blue" dial, it's actually purple and of course not matching the bezel (nice blue)
- lume? What lume?
- not a defect, but indeed a 43mm sub like this wears big compared to the many 40-41mm I have. My bad I guess (7.25" wrist, I thought I can pull this).

Other than the nice ceramic bezel and true sapphire glass the watch is disappointing...a purchase I do regret, even for the 56$ I paid.

See below :









My conclusion? You always get what you pay for.


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## columela (Jan 5, 2015)

Hello

I just got one of these pd 1639 watches and these are my impressions so far:
1. It is a very big watch. For my 17 cm wrist size it looks ok once I have adjusted it perfectly to stop it rattling and moving.
2. On the positives, it has a spectacular green sunburst dial, applied indices and a nice magnifying cyclops loupe. The weight is considerable. 
3. As advertised the cristal is sapphire and the bezel is ceramic , with 90 clicks and a minimal way back.
4. The bracelet is of very good quality, with easy to remove screwed links. There is a divers extension and micro adjustments in the clasp. 
5. The movement is a Seiko NH35a a well known and reliable machine made calibre. 21600 beats per hour. On my timegrapher has 282 degrees of amplitude , 0.1 ms of beat error. It gains 12 seconds face up, 8 seconds face down and 2 seconds at 90 degrees upright.









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## Planet_Ocean_UK (Jan 14, 2018)

I'm not sure whether you all know but Pagani Design is no more, they have rebranded as BERSIGAR so hold on to your PD branded watches, they may even become collectors items


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Planet_Ocean_UK said:


> I'm not sure whether you all know but Pagani Design is no more, they have rebranded as BERSIGAR so hold on to your PD branded watches, they may even become collectors items


"Collector's Items": LOL!

I see they are changing their name here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pagani-Automatic-Watches-Analogue-Stainless/dp/B07MMWXRCH

But PD are still readily available on AliX: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gr...l?spm=a2g0o.store_home.pcShopHead_7583462.1_2

And Taobao:
https://s.taobao.com/search?q=伯佳尼&s_from=newHeader&ssid=s5-e&search_type=item&sourceId=tb.item


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## mrwomble (Dec 28, 2011)

Planet_Ocean_UK said:


> I'm not sure whether you all know but Pagani Design is no more, they have rebranded as BERSIGAR so hold on to your PD branded watches, they may even become collectors items


What a crap name! I far prefer Pagani Design. Not sure I'd purchase any watches called 'Burst Cigar'.


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## billa84 (Feb 8, 2019)

hey Guys

i'm thinking of submariner homage sharkey or san martin, but how this pagani diff from those 2 considering it cost lot more cheaper than sharkey and san martin.

spec wise whey almost the same spec on all 3.


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## cpoliver (Apr 8, 2010)

Haha, here's hoping! I don't know why these Chinese manufacturers can't figure out how to give their surprisingly good watches (for the money) a decent brand name.

Still... very happy with the Pagani Design Hulk and Daytona homages for fifty quid a pop. They don't look too out of place next to much more premium pieces (and guess which one has the correct time? ).


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

mrwomble said:


> What a crap name! I far prefer Pagani Design. Not sure I'd purchase any watches called 'Burst Cigar'.


I see your point. This is a brand that specialises in cookie-cutter homages, so a name that recalls both 'Pagani' and 'Porsche Design' is perfectly appropriate. :-d

:think: Does this mean that Bersigar are going to experiment with <gasp!> &#8230; _original_ designs?


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## crAss (Nov 11, 2018)

billa84 said:


> hey Guys
> 
> i'm thinking of submariner homage sharkey or san martin, but how this pagani diff from those 2 considering it cost lot more cheaper than sharkey and san martin.
> 
> spec wise whey almost the same spec on all 3.


I personally haven't tested the water resistant of the pagani. If it proves good enough for surface swimming with the occasional fun diver at 3-5 meters then it would all be about design.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk


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## columela (Jan 5, 2015)

cpoliver said:


> Haha, here's hoping! I don't know why these Chinese manufacturers can't figure out how to give their surprisingly good watches (for the money) a decent brand name.
> 
> Still... very happy with the Pagani Design Hulk and Daytona homages for fifty quid a pop. They don't look too out of place next to much more premium pieces (and guess which one has the correct time? ).
> 
> View attachment 14867809


Your picture is very revealing of the quality of the homage watches compared to the expensive ones. It is quite a significant development which might herald a radical change in how watches are perceived

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## seadial (Jan 14, 2010)

I think the Pagani Design watches are great (for the money), especially their bulky stainless steel models with extra crowns, but when I go diving I wear my Seiko's as I don't think any of the Pagani watches are more than 3 atm watches, which is Chinese jargon for splash proof. Anything with a leather band on it is not going into the water in any case and with watches going over my wetsuit cuff I need the long tropic straps of a real dive watch.

Here are the specs for the watch where they qualify what the water resistance is, in red, now a true 100 m would be more than that, so "100 m" is probably just a decoration. Whether a 100 m capability is possible would depend on how the watch is constructed and the attention to detail in assembling it.


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## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

crAss said:


> I got into Chinese watches mainly because I thought the price in comparison with the offering was really good. And now I got across this watch. I bought it in an impulse for 54.86 euro from Ali (amazon UK price is around 110 euros) and this price includes:
> - Seiko NH35 automatic movement (I saw a listing with a miyota movement as well)
> Note that some very cheap DG movements have their balance wheel in the same position as Seiko... in 9 o'clock with crown directly opposite @ 3
> - 316 stainless steel case
> ...


There are Chinese automatics that are priced wayyy below most people expectations. However i would take those as with a pinch of salt...in blue.


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

> Seiko NH35 automatic movement (I saw a listing with a miyota movement as well)
> Note that some very cheap DG movements have their balance wheel in the same position as Seiko... in 9 o'clock with crown directly opposite @ 3


Can you provide comparison photos? I am not aware of 'DG' making a movement that resembles a Seiko movement. There are certainly two or three other makers (Hangzhou Watch Co is one of them) that make movements in the Seiko style, but they are easily distinguished by not having 'Seiko' or 'SII' stamped on them.


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## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

Bridge design and balance wheel design may not necessarily the same.
However the lay out...








From front, it's enough to fool non-WIS that this watch packs a "Japanese Engineered" China movement.

One folks tries to look deeper,








Where this is a DG2350 or some other variant number without the date function

vs

SEIKO NH36


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Ed.YANG said:


> Bridge design and balance wheel design may not necessarily the same.
> However the lay out...
> 
> 
> ...


Where did you get that 'DG2350' designation? That's doesn't look like a DG movement.


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## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

DG2350
https://perrinwatchparts.com/products/chinese_automatic_watch_movement_dg2350?variant=28929417773090


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## Casertano69 (Sep 22, 2012)

bolts40 said:


> I ordered mine on November 27. It arrived on 12/31 and I couldn't be happier. It's running +5 per day and looks great. The only issue I would look out for is this: mine arrived with ALL of the bracelet screws not screwed down tightly. Certainly would rather have a glide lock clasp but for $65 (Ebay), I'm not complaining.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK,nice watch, I wonder however, what sense does it have to own a "Chinese" watch with a Japanese movement inside, for me this watch has nothing of Chinese ...


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## Casertano69 (Sep 22, 2012)

crAss said:


> I got into Chinese watches mainly because I thought the price in comparison with the offering was really good. And now I got across this watch. I bought it in an impulse for 54.86 euro from Ali (amazon UK price is around 110 euros) and this price includes:
> - Seiko NH35 automatic movement (I saw a listing with a miyota movement as well)
> - 316 stainless steel case
> - Ceramic bezel insert
> ...


Nice watch,but I wonder,however,what's the sense to own a "chinese"
watch with a Japanese movement inside,for me it has nothing of chinese...


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## Casertano69 (Sep 22, 2012)

Chascomm said:


> Where did you get that 'DG2350' designation? That's doesn't look like a DG movement.


Nice watch,but I'don't undertsand the sense to own a chinese watch with a japanese movement...for me it's not chinese


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## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

Casertano69 said:


> OK,nice watch, I wonder however, what sense does it have to own a "Chinese" watch with a Japanese movement inside, for me this watch has nothing of Chinese ...


How about using the Oriental side of "Made in Germany" regulation to justify "Chinese Made" claim?
While the beating heart can be Japanese, the rest, including assembly labor, all Chinese... The movement may turnout just being 40% of the cost.


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Casertano69 said:


> Nice watch,but I'don't undertsand the sense to own a chinese watch with a japanese movement...for me it's not chinese


These are not "Chinese watches" these are watches Made in China.
Tianjin Sea-Gull, Tina Wang, Fiyta, Rossini, Shanghai, Zuanshi, Beijing Watches, et al are Chinese watches.


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## Casertano69 (Sep 22, 2012)

Nice watch Tevise 801,I wonder(however)what's the sense to own a "chinese"watch with a japanese movement inside...


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## Chascomm (Feb 13, 2006)

Ed.YANG said:


> DG2350
> https://perrinwatchparts.com/products/chinese_automatic_watch_movement_dg2350?variant=28929417773090


I wouldn't regard their designations to be literally accurate, given that they call a Hangzhou 9-series "6497" and an ETA-clone (probably Hangzhou 6-series) as "2824", and have a bunch of other movements of the same design series as the "DG2350" (i.e. Hangzhou 2-series) identified without the "DG" prefix.


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## crAss (Nov 11, 2018)

The Seiko movement in the pagani is most probably made in China as well. I have one seiko in my collection and it is made in China, how Japanese is that?
The pagani is more Chinese (given that everything is made in China and the brand is Chinese) than my Seiko is Japanese.
And I also have a Swiss watch, which had lots of parts made elsewhere, but it's called Swiss because it fulfilled the Swiss law on when the watch is considered to be Swiss.
Also the Tevise t801a is fully Chinese, but the movement is a crappy version of tongji. I have that also but would never tell anyone to get it since, because of having to be manually wound and the crappy quality the crown needed to be exchanged in less than a few months.
Indeed I also have some Chinese watches with Chinese movements (Tevise t802 with a good auto winding tongji, lgxige with the 4 Hertz movement, didun, a pagani with Chinese movement etc), but they don't feel less or more Chinese to me than this pagani.
At the end of the day if you are happy that's all it matters to me at least.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

crAss said:


> The Seiko movement in the pagani is most probably made in China as well. I have one seiko in my collection and it is made in China, how Japanese is that?
> The pagani is more Chinese (given that everything is made in China and the brand is Chinese) than my Seiko is Japanese.
> And I also have a Swiss watch, which had lots of parts made elsewhere, but it's called Swiss because it fulfilled the Swiss law on when the watch is considered to be Swiss.
> Also the Tevise t801a is fully Chinese, but the movement is a crappy version of tongji. I have that also but would never tell anyone to get it since, because of having to be manually wound and the crappy quality the crown needed to be exchanged in less than a few months.
> Indeed I also have some Chinese watches with Chinese movements (Tevise t802 with a good auto winding tongji, lgxige with the 4 Hertz movement, didun, a pagani with Chinese movement etc), but they don't feel less or more Chinese to me than this pagani.


I understand your logic. Let me be more specific. 
For me, "Chinese watch brand" means a watch made in China and distributed to reach the Chinese market. Not just an online store catering to foreigners but physical stores or kiosks in China and/or have their own official website available in Chinese language. 
PD doesn't have any of those. 
How can something be a Chinese brand and not be readily available in China to Chinese citizens? Yes, PD is on Taobao but they haven't sold very many watches at all. Go and see for yourself.

Perhaps we are down to semantics and we are both right. 
IMHO, PD is a mushroom brand specifically made for the western market. The same is not true for Chinese watch brands like Shanghai, Beijing and Tianjin Sea-Gull, Tian Wang, et al.


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## Desk-bound (Sep 4, 2019)

Is Pagani Design even sold in China?


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## Monkey_like_watch (Mar 1, 2017)

Desk-bound said:


> Is Pagani Design even sold in China?


Only on Taobao (and one style on JD.com, see below) and they haven't sold many. Only 37 units of the 1639 have been sold from the top shops on the first page of the TB search for Pagani Design. 
Most of the stores that sell PD watches are only showing 1 or 2 purchases or zero purchases.

There is one type of PD watch style on JD.com but no one has purchased that watch.

Also, PD doesn't have a Chinese language website.


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## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

Be it Tevise or Pagani or Helmdeller or Sharkey or any marques else... That do homage to other established makes in the market, are considerably as Chinese watches that are based in China, otherwise if stated clearly where are their company of origin. 
And these "budget-friendly" cheap marques, are in the market to feed the demand of "budget-friendly" model buyers.


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## Casertano69 (Sep 22, 2012)

I wonder,do the NH35 movements are genuines japanese movements?...I think that these movements are made in China..


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## watchcrank_tx (Sep 1, 2012)

Casertano69 said:


> I wonder,do the NH35 movements are genuines japanese movements?...I think that these movements are made in China..


Yes, but in a Seiko factory.


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## Ed.YANG (Jun 8, 2011)

Casertano69 said:


> ...I think that these movements are made in China..


U should dwell into how many percentage of the movement is MiC. Seiko had several setups in south east Asia that SII hv assembly plants and factories producing precision parts. The NH35/6 movements can be assembled in Thailand, Malaysia as well as Singapore...


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## peterfox (Feb 27, 2020)

Hey guys, does anyone know the dial size on these watches?


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## columela (Jan 5, 2015)

peterfox said:


> Hey guys, does anyone know the dial size on these watches?


43mm

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## NeilKB (Feb 29, 2020)

Mine arrived Friday, and it is even better than expected. The finish and quality is outstanding. Right now with Covid-19 on the loose, there are flash sales on the go and I got mine for $59.99 from the PD Factory shop. Really happy with it


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## NeilKB (Feb 29, 2020)

Have a look at the prices now. With covid-19, there are flash sales from time to time at the PD Factory Shop on Ali. I got a black sub 1639 for $59..99. Arrived in good order and as advertised. An even bigger bargain


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## itibiertia0887 (Feb 24, 2020)

crAss said:


> I just opened the package yesterday. I am genuinely impressed. I think this will be the last sub 100 Euro watch in my collection for some time. I started with a tevise t801 and ended with this after about 15 watches.
> The style is always more than a bit subjective, but what I see in this watch is remarkable even unbelievable for 50 Euros. There is not a single thing I would want more and this watch does not have.
> The only downside I see is the prices going up, because if someone did not know and found this watch in a window of a proper shop in Europe or US I believe he could pay for 200 Euros and still be happy for a cost effective purchase...
> 
> Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk


Do you have some pictures for us?


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