# First Fountain Pen for Newbie $200 Budget.



## pandatime (Aug 29, 2015)

Newbie here trying to get find something for less than $200. I have read up on multiple suggestion but none seem to fit my taste or budget. Basically I'm looking for a FP under $200 that has the best value for the money. I have looked at a few so please let me know what you guys think and what would you suggest within my price range?

Amazon.com : Waterman Expert Deluxe Blue Obsession CT Fine Point Fountain Pen (1904580) : Office Products
Waterman Expert $100

Amazon.com: Pelikan M200 Fountain Pen Black Fine (993915): Office Products
Pelikan M200 $108

Amazon.com : Waterman Expert Deluxe Blue Obsession CT Fine Point Fountain Pen (1904580) : Office Products
Waterman Expert Deluxe Blue $146

How are the above as starter pen? 
What would you guys/gals buy if you only had $200 to spare on a pen?
I don't mind spending a little more if that means I get better value.
Thanks for your time, I'm new so please bear with me.

EDIT: My two choices are now the Pilot Falcon vs Sailor 1911m.


----------



## Snoweagle (Jul 3, 2012)

I recommend the Lamy 2000.


----------



## jar (Dec 24, 2013)

I have both a Waterman Expert and Pelikan 200 and so can offer some experiences.

They are somewhat similar is size and both use steel nibs. The Expert fills with cartridge/converter and can use either the long or short international standard cartridges and most piston style international converters. The Pelikan is piston filled and only uses bottled ink. This may or may not be important but cartridge/converter pens do offer you the ability top carry an heir and a spare refills in your pocket.

The Pelikan has one very big advantage over the Expert in the fact that nib units simply screw in place, are readily available in a variety of widths and styles and are relatively inexpensive.

The other pen that was mentioned is the Lamy 2000. Many people seem to like it and the ones I have had have been reliable but it is also boring. It was one pen I have given to folk as a starter fountain pen because it is reliable and pretty hard for a new user to destroy. But it is also one I seldom recommend. If you get a chance to try one, by all means do so.

Value though is simply impossible to estimate. It is personal. Some value the Lamy 2000 highly, I don't. That changes nothing about the characteristics of a Lamy 200, it only reflects personal opinion.


----------



## Tsujigiri (Nov 28, 2008)

Based on my experience, I would say the Pelikan m200, Sailor 1911m, or Lamy 2000. The Pelikan is nice because it's a piston filler with a nib that unscrews easily, but it's the only one of the three with a steel nib, and I don't think it quite measures up to the other two.

The Lamy 2000 is a nicer pen than it may seem to be at first. It's very minimalist in form, but highly functional, and I've grown to like the way it looks (it is in the Museum of Modern Art, so I can't be alone on that). It feels larger in the hand than the other two, but isn't a heavy pen at all. The brushed finish has a great tactile feel and doesn't show scratches easily. The 14k nib and piston filler are features you'd usually find on more expensive pens. It has some nice touches like the low profile ink window that you can't really see unless you need it, and the solid (not stamped) spring-loaded clip. For function, it has one of the best values out there, if not the best. 

Sailor makes, in my opinion, the best nibs out there. They're smooth and well-tuned, with just a touch of feedback to keep you grounded. The flow never seems to skip a beat, either. I recall hearing about their nibmeister talking about the ideal dimensions of a feed to ensure that enough ink is delivered to the nib. Their nibs are in-house, so you won't get quite the same feel from any pen other than a Sailor. The work on the pen body is better than most, too. The trim rings have a little dimension to them instead of looking like they were printed on, the threads for the cap and body are smooth but without play, and the clip is a little better thought out than others. The 1911m feels the most premium of the three to me, the only downside being that it's a cartridge/converter filler (they do make a piston filler now, but I think it's over your budget).


----------



## heb (Feb 24, 2006)

Hello,
Anything Pelikan gives you a slightly better than even chance of getting a good performing fountain pen. Fountain pens are similar to mechanical wristwatches, getting a good one is more a matter of luck than design, REGARDLESS of cost. But some brands increase your "good" chances a little bit more than others--Pelikan in the fountain pen world.

Good luck with your choice.

heb


----------



## Tsujigiri (Nov 28, 2008)

Oddly enough, one of my Pelikan M200's had a nib that only let out a trickle of ink and needed some work to get it writing well. I would say that the Japanese are the masters of quality control. The worst experience I had by far was with an OMAS Paragon. Not only was it poorly made, but it soon became apparent through use that it wasn't designed well either. After a week the piston fell apart. I sent it back to them, and they took 6 months to send me a replacement that looked like it had been put together by toddlers with sledgehammers. Never before nor since, whether a Montblanc or a worn out vintage or a $6 Hero have I had a pen as badly made as the OMAS.


----------



## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

Pelikan any day. Any Pelikan......


----------



## pandatime (Aug 29, 2015)

Guys thanks for your suggestion and reply. I had a chance to look at your suggestion and think the sailor 1911 is what I want. I do fine the lamy kind of too simple for my taste. I also came across this pilot namiki fine nib .

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0006...untain+pen&dpPl=1&dpID=31+he02i72L&ref=plSrch

They are around the same price so which would be a better buy? I believe they both use the converter refill. Would fine vs medium make a difference for a beginner? About to pull the trigger on one of them. Thanks and please let me know what you guys think.


----------



## Tsujigiri (Nov 28, 2008)

Pilot's a good company. I do feel like their nibs feel a little "colder." Sailor nibs have enough feedback to feel more alive in your hand without being scratchy. That particular Pilot is known for having a springy nib, which is cool if you want to try a little copperplate calligraphy, but definitely not beginner stuff, and a dip pen is better and cheaper for calligraphy anyway. Personally, I'd prefer the Sailor. Also, Pelikan is another favorite of mine, but I feel that they really shine in the larger Souverän pens; I rarely reach for my m200.

As for nib size, keep in mind that Japanese pens run a size smaller than modern western pens. So a Japanese medium is the same size as most Western fines. Beginners tend to like fine nibs and have trouble dealing with broad or extra fine nibs. Many people who have been in the hobby a long time find that they still prefer a western fine / Japanese medium size. Finer nibs need a really light and practiced touch to work without skipping or being scratchy, and bold nibs need a fast hand and a certain writing style that doesn't blend the words together. For me, I really like Sailor's medium-fine size, an intermediate. It's just a hair finer than most Western fines.


----------



## pandatime (Aug 29, 2015)

Tsujigiri said:


> Pilot's a good company. I do feel like their nibs feel a little "colder." Sailor nibs have enough feedback to feel more alive in your hand without being scratchy. That particular Pilot is known for having a springy nib, which is cool if you want to try a little copperplate calligraphy, but definitely not beginner stuff, and a dip pen is better and cheaper for calligraphy anyway. Personally, I'd prefer the Sailor. Also, Pelikan is another favorite of mine, but I feel that they really shine in the larger Souverän pens; I rarely reach for my m200.
> 
> As for nib size, keep in mind that Japanese pens run a size smaller than modern western pens. So a Japanese medium is the same size as most Western fines. Beginners tend to like fine nibs and have trouble dealing with broad or extra fine nibs. Many people who have been in the hobby a long time find that they still prefer a western fine / Japanese medium size. Finer nibs need a really light and practiced touch to work without skipping or being scratchy, and bold nibs need a fast hand and a certain writing style that doesn't blend the words together. For me, I really like Sailor's medium-fine size, an intermediate. It's just a hair finer than most Western fines.


Wow!!! Thanks for your great feedback. I did some digging around and found a blue sailor for a great price. http://m.ebay.com/itm/SAILOR-11-121...m-with-Converter-NEW-/131752880751?nav=SEARCH

Is this the correct model I'm looking for? What's the difference between a 1209 vs 1219? Is this a legit deal or just go with Amazon?


----------



## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Pilot nibs *can* be somewhat non-responsive...but that is NOT an issue with the Namiki Falcon. The country's best nibmaster, John Mottishaw, recommends the Falcon as one of the best choices, at ANY price, for customization to Spencerian script...very fine, very flexible nib. Those long, sloped tines do the job.

So I'll push for a Falcon...I have 4, including 2 custom nib jobs. I will also suggest ordering from Mottishaw...nibs.com | Classic Fountain Pens, Inc.. Every pen gets tweaked by his shop, to ensure good clean flow, and he'll tweak the flow rate (by adjusting the nib/feed positioning) to your request...dry to wet.

And while I wouldn't suggest this for a first pen...John will customize a nib, to create a stub or italic. Or in some cases, to give flex...but this is tricky. Still, a boring steel nib can often be turned into something more fun to use, by making it an oblique. He'll do this on a pen you send him...but turnaround on these is now fairly long, as he's insanely busy. But on a pen you buy from him, you get put to the front of the line. And even with this, his prices are generally about 20% off MSRP...not the best, but fairly common.


----------



## taike (Mar 7, 2014)

I find the cheap ebay stuff works just fine. Chinese pens from Hero or Jinhao. Ink from Camel, Ostrich, or Hero. Too many people going nuts with this stuff these days, like with the shaving gear.


----------



## Tsujigiri (Nov 28, 2008)

pandatime said:


> Wow!!! Thanks for your great feedback. I did some digging around and found a blue sailor for a great price. Sailor 11 1219 440 Fountain Pen 1911 Standard Blue Medium with Converter New | eBay
> 
> Is this the correct model I'm looking for? What's the difference between a 1209 vs 1219? Is this a legit deal or just go with Amazon?


I don't see anything called a 1209 on the Sailor site? That pen you linked is the 1911m I'm referring to.


----------



## pandatime (Aug 29, 2015)

According to Sailor's site 1209 is the "blue" while 1219 is "standard blue." Thank you Tsujigiri !


----------



## pandatime (Aug 29, 2015)

gangrel said:


> Pilot nibs *can* be somewhat non-responsive...but that is NOT an issue with the Namiki Falcon. The country's best nibmaster, John Mottishaw, recommends the Falcon as one of the best choices, at ANY price, for customization to Spencerian script...very fine, very flexible nib. Those long, sloped tines do the job.
> 
> So I'll push for a Falcon...I have 4, including 2 custom nib jobs. I will also suggest ordering from Mottishaw...nibs.comÂ.|Â.Classic Fountain Pens, Inc.. Every pen gets tweaked by his shop, to ensure good clean flow, and he'll tweak the flow rate (by adjusting the nib/feed positioning) to your request...dry to wet.
> 
> And while I wouldn't suggest this for a first pen...John will customize a nib, to create a stub or italic. Or in some cases, to give flex...but this is tricky. Still, a boring steel nib can often be turned into something more fun to use, by making it an oblique. He'll do this on a pen you send him...but turnaround on these is now fairly long, as he's insanely busy. But on a pen you buy from him, you get put to the front of the line. And even with this, his prices are generally about 20% off MSRP...not the best, but fairly common.


Don't know why your reply didn't show up on my phone. Thanks for your great feedback. So given the choice you would pick the "Pilot" Falcon over the Sailor 1911m? Base on nib/feel/quality? I assume you're not comparing the out of my range "Namiki" line vs the Sailor 1911?
Pilot Falcon Resin Fountain Pen
Pilot Namiki Falcon
Sailor 1911 Mid-Size Blue with Gold Trim Fountain Pen
Sailor 1911m

I'm guessing I can't really go wrong with either. Boils down to preference for each individual. Thanks again gangrel.


----------



## pandatime (Aug 29, 2015)

taike said:


> I find the cheap ebay stuff works just fine. Chinese pens from Hero or Jinhao. Ink from Camel, Ostrich, or Hero. Too many people going nuts with this stuff these days, like with the shaving gear.


The review for the cheap stuff seem to agree with your statement. I'm searching for a quality pen to keep myself occupied while I continue my search for my next watch. Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## Tsujigiri (Nov 28, 2008)

pandatime said:


> Don't know why your reply didn't show up on my phone. Thanks for your great feedback. So given the choice you would pick the "Pilot" Falcon over the Sailor 1911m? Base on nib/feel/quality? I assume you're not comparing the out of my range "Namiki" line vs the Sailor 1911?
> Pilot Falcon Resin Fountain Pen
> Pilot Namiki Falcon
> Sailor 1911 Mid-Size Blue with Gold Trim Fountain Pen
> ...


Yep, the Falcon is a very good pen as well, comes down to preference. You may develop a taste for flexible nibs as you get into the hobby, in which case you'll find that very few modern pens are made with flexible nibs, the Namiki Falcon being probably the most liked choice for a modern flex nib. I just saw that they seem to be calling it the Pilot Falcon now; it used to be referred to as the Namiki Falcon. Namiki is just Pilot's higher end line, as Nakaya is Platinum's high end line. Flex nibs allow you to write in copperplate-style calligraphy, which is more difficult than the italic/gothic based hands that use a stub nib. For normal writing, a stiffer nib is a little easier to use. If you do go the calligraphy route, I would tell you two things. One is that you would be better off selecting a finer nib than you normally would, because you'll need the line variation between hairline strokes and broad swells to make that style of lettering work. The other is that people who really get into calligraphy tend to use dip pens, which are untipped and offer even more line variation than fountain pens. The dip pen nibs are disposable, but very cheap if you want to try it out. Good NOS nibs are easy to find for $1, and I've gotten much better deals by buying boxes at a time on ebay.


----------



## Bobby75 (Jun 26, 2011)

I have had a few cheap ebay pens from China and the positives are the price (they are sometimes no more than £2) they write generally very well some comparable to my more expensive pens, they are decent desk pens, some are quite lightweight so you have a great choice available, they seem to fill well. The negatives are they don't appear they will last too long, I found at least one when packing and taking away from the desk to use elsewhere it leaked quite badly. So all in all if you want a decent desk pen for money you couldn't buy a sandwich for I Chinese ebay pen is they way to go. That being said, I would say a Lamy safari would be the better all round cheap pen. Now in the budget you are talking about the Lamy 2000 I think would fit the bill very well as a quality day to day pen they are also pretty inexpensive for the quality you are getting. Another alternative would be a Platinum 3776 pen for roughly half the price of the Lamy (Deending on where you purchase it) Or a fine nib Visconti.


----------



## jar (Dec 24, 2013)

Panda... The Sailor 1911 comes in two basic sizes (small about 6mm shorter) and you will want to know which you are buying to compare to your hand size and likes.

Of the big three Japanese companies I find the Platinum nibs the most consistently high quality control, then Sailor with Pilot the least consistent.

All three use proprietary cartridge/converters and with all three the cartridges hold more ink than the converters.

Platinum does offer an adapter for about $1.00 that will allow the use of international standard cartridges and in some models international standard converters (in some pens the converter is too long with the adapter.)

Here you get an idea for relative sizes:

Top to bottom
Platinum #3776, Sailor large 1911, Platinum #3776 Century, Pilot Nippon Art, Platinum Modern Classic Maki-e style.









And top to bottom here:
Sailor 1911, Platinum #3776, Platinum Century #3776, Pilot Nippon Art, Platinum Modern Classic Maki-e style.







Note, Sailor 1911s come in two sizes and the Platinum #3776 Century is shorter than the older #3776.


----------



## pandatime (Aug 29, 2015)

jar said:


> Panda... The Sailor 1911 comes in two basic sizes (small about 6mm shorter) and you will want to know which you are buying to compare to your hand size and likes.
> 
> Of the big three Japanese companies I find the Platinum nibs the most consistently high quality control, then Sailor with Pilot the least consistent.
> 
> ...


WOW!!! Are those your pens? They are absolutely gorgeous!!! Thanks for the great info. I already order the Sailor 1911m in blue, should arrive next week. Will keep you guys updated. I'm not done picking your guy's brain just yet.


----------



## jar (Dec 24, 2013)

pandatime said:


> WOW!!! Are those your pens? They are absolutely gorgeous!!! Thanks for the great info. I already order the Sailor 1911m in blue, should arrive next week. Will keep you guys updated. I'm not done picking your guy's brain just yet.


You might enjoy this thread from another board that is an introductory journey into pens that use urushi or Chinese Lacquer.


----------



## drgoretex (Jul 14, 2014)

Just saw this thread. Glad to see Sailor, Pilot an Pelikan all mentioned. These are definitely best choices for budget. Sailor 1911 mid, Pilot 74, Pelikan M400.

or, all three, which realistically is more likely. 😆

Ken


----------



## pandatime (Aug 29, 2015)

jar said:


> You might enjoy this thread from another board that is an introductory journey into pens that use urushi or Chinese Lacquer.


Great read!!! Might come in handy for future purchase.


drgoretex said:


> Just saw this thread. Glad to see Sailor, Pilot an Pelikan all mentioned. These are definitely best choices for budget. Sailor 1911 mid, Pilot 74, Pelikan M400.
> 
> or, all three, which realistically is more likely. 
> 
> Ken


All three? Haha watches are expensive enough. Anxiously awaiting my first FP.


----------



## gangrel (Jun 25, 2015)

Pilot 74 can be found under $90. Pretty sure I have one floating around. Japan generally, and Pilot especially, offer by far the best bang for the buck, and are *quite* well-behaved, outside the Vanishing Points, which have been an issue for me.


----------



## Nokie (Jul 4, 2011)

> These are definitely best choices for budget. Sailor 1911 mid, Pilot 74, Pelikan M400


Excellent suggestions.


----------



## pandatime (Aug 29, 2015)

Sailor 1911 came in couple days ago. Haven't had a chance to write much. Only gripe is wish the pen was a bit heavier, but definitely a quality pen. Thanks all for the input and suggestion.

Pic of pen with my newly acquired watch from Jomashop.


----------



## Tsujigiri (Nov 28, 2008)

Nice! Tell us how you like writing with it. Light pens are nice for avoiding fatigue during long writing sessions. If you want heavier you might look into some of the oversized pens down the road. The bigger Pelikans (not the m200) have a brass piston filler instead of plastic, which gives them a little heft.


----------



## drgoretex (Jul 14, 2014)

pandatime said:


> Sailor 1911 came in couple days ago. Haven't had a chance to write much. Only gripe is wish the pen was a bit heavier, but definitely a quality pen. Thanks all for the input and suggestion.


I love that pic - great photography! As for the weight, it is always tempting to equate heavier with better quality, but in pens that simply means more metal in it. The 1911s are excellent quality, and I am sure you will love it. Happy writing!

Ken


----------



## CTSteve (Mar 24, 2014)

I second the Lamy 2000. It's a great daily writer.


----------



## CTSteve (Mar 24, 2014)

Also, I never owned either of the Waterman's but did have an M200 once. I found it to be too small for my liking.


----------

