# Citizen BN0191-80L Eco-Drive Promaster Diver



## mi6_

Citizen has a new Promaster Eco-Drive Diver coming out in the summer of 2017. Not sure if it's a world-wide release yet as I could only find info on the global Promaster site and the Australian Citizen website.

It has a 43.4mm stainless steel case with the E168 Eco-Drive quartz movement, mineral crystal with anti-reflective coating, screw down crown and is a 200M ISO6425 Diver's watch. Not sure I'm completely sold on the overall design. Maybe a bit too dressy for my tastes (prefer a more tool look for my diver's), but I'll wait to see more pictures.

PRODUCT-MARINE | PROMASTER-Official Site [CITIZEN] (scroll to bottom)


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## GTR83

Ah, I haven't got a dressy diver myself, so this one is quite interesting. But the Orient Ray II can also serve that purpose and judging from these photos, the Citizen will be significantly more expensive.

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## mplsabdullah

Very nice looking watch. Hope they are priced reasonably.


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## branl33

Yep. Looking forward to this diver.


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## mikef

That's sweet. As others have expressed - hope it doesn't hit the wallet too hard. I'm getting a little concerned that a lot of the recent Seiko stuff is getting more and more out of my price range. Hope Citizen doesn't follow suit. Not holding out much hope tho.


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## peacemaker885

No offense meant to people who prefer it, but these watches just keep on getting bigger and bigger.


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## Everett464

peacemaker885 said:


> No offense meant to people who prefer it, but these watches just keep on getting bigger and bigger.


I'm curious to see how it wears. it looks similarly dimensioned to my BFK, which, IMO, wears much smaller than I expected it to.


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## mi6_

peacemaker885 said:


> No offense meant to people who prefer it, but these watches just keep on getting bigger and bigger.


Yup I agree. I'd really like to see more diver options around 39-40mm.


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## NorthMac

mi6_ said:


> Yup I agree. I'd really like to see more diver options around 39-40mm.


Seiko has now made 39mm versions of their Air Diver Ti Solar line (SBDN019 etc), and compared to the 44mm versions they just look shrunken - guessing they sell mainly as womens' versions to make paired sets (and yes, many men will have 6-inch or so wrist size so need this size to be sure). To me this just suggests that divers aesthetically need to be in the 42-44mm minimum size just to have the right presence as divers; this Citizen is in the right ballpark and demure compared to say, the new GS divers, spring drive Seiko divers, Tunas, etc (not to mention much thinner due to the caliber). SS case and mineral crystal should keep the cost down; it might have potential as a backup / beater diver to my Seiko mech. Thanks for the find!


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## CLP

peacemaker885 said:


> No offense meant to people who prefer it, but these watches just keep on getting bigger and bigger.


I can understand if you were talking about the BN7020 which is the size of a hockey puck, but you're not.

To me, 40-45 is the standard for sport watches that I'd consider wearable, as long as the L2L (no more than 50) and thickness (no more than 15) are also proportionate.


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## CLP

Oh, and considering this bears resemblance to, in both appearance and specs, to the BL1258 Courageous and NB1031 Grand Touring, I'd say the price would be about the same, (or close to the 1258) which unfortunately is more than most, including me, would want to pay.


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## NorthMac

C Perry said:


> Oh, and considering this bears resemblance to, in both appearance and specs, to the BL1258 Courageous and NB1031 Grand Touring, I'd say the price would be about the same, (or close to the 1258) which unfortunately is more than most, including me, would want to pay.


I thought the same, so looked up the BL1258 - it is part of their Signature Collection, has 300m rating, sapphire crystal, perpetual calendar, more dramatic dial and bezel... so I'd say this new one that has none of those specs is intended to sell for half of that one.


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## mi6_

The Australian Citizen website lists this model for $599 AU. That's the exact same price as the Promaster BN0150-61E (Prime) on stainless steel bracelet. It will be $200-$250 US. Same pricing as Citizen Excalibur if you're familiar with that one.

http://www.citizenwatches.com.au/2017-aw-release-9.html


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## Worker

That's promising! ^^

Thanks for posting OP!


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## CLP

I stand corrected on the specs, but isn't $600AU closer to $450US?


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## Piede

Interesting! Maybe they will release in more colors as well.


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## dibawahperut

That's damn nice watch!

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## mi6_

C Perry said:


> I stand corrected on the specs, but isn't $600AU closer to $450US?


Yeah but watches sell for less than suggested retail even at authorized dealers. For example the Citizen BN0151-09L has a suggested retail of $295 US. It can be found at authorized dealers for $220 or less. Grey market is $150 or less.


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## CLP

I see, so kinda like the Invicta model, just not so inflated.

Wouldn't MSRP be applicable on new releases for a period of time?


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## Adman

Definitely gonna be picking one of these up. Love me a nice Eco-Drive diver!


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## mi6_

Noticed Citizen changed the specs for the size of the case on this watch. It originally said 43.4mm and now has grown to 44.5mm. Definitely too big for my wrist now.

PRODUCT-MARINE | PROMASTER-Official Site [CITIZEN]


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## Stelyos

mi6_ said:


> Noticed Citizen changed the specs for the size of the case on this watch. It originally said 43.4mm and now has grown to 44.5mm. Definitely too big for my wrist now.
> 
> PRODUCT-MARINE | PROMASTER-Official Site [CITIZEN]


Does anyone know specifically the month of release?

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## sr886699

Very nice looking watch, looking forward to checking this out.


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## ZASKAR36

Black Dial and rose gold too.

BN0190-17e black dial on rubber 









Bn0190-82e black dial on bracelet









BN0193 Rose gold rubber strap









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## mi6_

^^^^

Those look great. The nearly 45mm size is too big for my little wrist unfortunately. This design has really grown on me.


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## mi6_

Models are now listed on the US website. Glad to see these are being released in North America. They list the size as 45mm. Too big for me but I love the black model.

BN0190-07E (Black model on silicone strap, MSRP $350 USD)








BN0191-80L (Blue model on Stainless steel bracelet, MSRP $395 USD)


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## Shuutr

Oooooh. I like these. The blue one will be mine.


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## mi6_

This model and the other variants are for sale on Duty Free Island and Ebay. Surprised to see that Citizen has gone to a new clasp on the stainless steel bracelet. It looks like a simpler stamped clasp with no wetsuit dive extension that I can see. One advantage is it's shorter length and has micro adjustment for perfect sizing. Dissapointed that they've gone away from the excellent Promaster ratcheting dive extension with the quality machined clasp especially when they are asking a bit more price wise. Looks like you need to put this on a rubber to wear it over a wetsuit (for those few who'd actually dive with it). Still I love the look of this model especially in black (I like it better than the blue one which is usually the opposite of my preference).


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## eelpie

I plan on buying one of these as soon as my source gets them back into stock, but I have one question for the forum.

I have seen the watch with two different bracelet designations, but I see no difference between the two: BN0191-80L and BN0191-55L.

Does anyone have any in-sight as to why it would be offered with differing designations? Would the same bracelet have different numbers based on the market for which it is intended?

Thank you.


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## mi6_

eelpie said:


> I plan on buying one of these as soon as my source gets them back into stock, but I have one question for the forum.
> 
> I have seen the watch with two different bracelet designations, but I see no difference between the two: BN0191-80L and BN0191-55L.
> 
> Does anyone have any in-sight as to why it would be offered with differing designations? Would the same bracelet have different numbers based on the market for which it is intended?
> 
> Thank you.


Probably the exact same watch. Both Citizen and Seiko give their watches unique model numbers depending on what region the watch is sold in. Often watches sold in Japan have a different model number than those sold in Europe or North America despite being the same watch.


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## SteamboatSteve

Does anyone happen to know the lug width on these new divers?


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## spearfish

22mm


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## SteamboatSteve

Mockup on an orange Isofrane.


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## Shuutr

don't know about that. I don't think it would suit me, but I get why it would work for someone else


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## mrhallorann

I've been looking for a new watch to add to my collection for my 40th birthday. I think this might be the one!!



mi6_ said:


> Citizen has a new Promaster Eco-Drive Diver coming out in the summer of 2017. Not sure if it's a world-wide release yet as I could only find info on the global Promaster site and the Australian Citizen website.
> 
> It has a 43.4mm stainless steel case with the E168 Eco-Drive quartz movement, mineral crystal with anti-reflective coating, screw down crown and is a 200M ISO6425 Diver's watch. Not sure I'm completely sold on the overall design. Maybe a bit too dressy for my tastes (prefer a more tool look for my diver's), but I'll wait to see more pictures.
> 
> PRODUCT-MARINE | PROMASTER-Official Site [CITIZEN] (scroll to bottom)
> 
> View attachment 11313954
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> View attachment 11313938
> 
> View attachment 11313970


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## AirWatch

Will someone buy one of these already! So much hesitation, caution and doubt, it's tiring me out!


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## mrhallorann

Oopsie, my hand slipped and I appear to have accidentally bought a BN0193-17E &#55357;&#56876;









Review to follow when it lands...


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## AirWatch

mrhallorann said:


> Oopsie, my hand slipped and I appear to have accidentally bought a BN0193-17E 😬
> 
> View attachment 12307074
> 
> 
> Review to follow when it lands...


Halleluhah!...Praise the Lord! Good work, Hallorann, good work! Congrats!


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## Shademantis

A recent youtube vid by Maverick watch reviews puts the case at 45-46mm with crown, so the case is likely 42-43ish. He also came out with a strap measurment of 20.5 but he measured away from the lugs and the strap appears to taper right outside the lugs....so hopefully 22mm is the actual measurment.


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## Bree1967

The blue version looks more dress than the black version to my eyes.


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## Bree1967

mrhallorann said:


> Oopsie, my hand slipped and I appear to have accidentally bought a BN0193-17E &#55357;&#56876;
> 
> View attachment 12307074
> 
> 
> Review to follow when it lands...


Prefer that black version to the blue one.


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## arogle1stus

Great lookin EcoDrive.
Depend on Citizen to be in there punching.
Afraid to ask what the pricepoint will be.

X Traindriver Art


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## mrhallorann

Shademantis said:


> A recent youtube vid by Maverick watch reviews puts the case at 45-46mm with crown, so the case is likely 42-43ish. He also came out with a strap measurment of 20.5 but he measured away from the lugs and the strap appears to taper right outside the lugs....so hopefully 22mm is the actual measurment.


Have you got a link to that vid please Shademantis?


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## mi6_

Here's the link to the video review:


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## mrhallorann

Holy moly that's got me salivating! I can't wait for my rose gold version to show up!! 😱😱


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## automan69

My comment is I am glad Citizen unlike Seiko has moved into the 21 century with putting their Eco Drive movement front and center of their new diver releases. Seiko continues to embrace the stone age albeit with handsome aesthetics with their antiquated mechanical movements that you not only have to wind if not wearing everyday but also are highly inaccurate compared to the Eco Drive.
Kudos to Citizen and maybe someday Seiko will smell the coffee. Btw, my quartz Seiko Tuna is one of my favorite dive watches and one of the most accurate in my collection. Too bad Seiko doesn't put that movement not only into many of their cool dive watches but also SARB and SARX line. Inexplicable.



mi6_ said:


> This model and the other variants are for sale on Duty Free Island and Ebay. Surprised to see that Citizen has gone to a new clasp on the stainless steel bracelet. It looks like a simpler stamped clasp with no wetsuit dive extension that I can see. One advantage is it's shorter length and has micro adjustment for perfect sizing. Dissapointed that they've gone away from the excellent Promaster ratcheting dive extension with the quality machined clasp especially when they are asking a bit more price wise. Looks like you need to put this on a rubber to wear it over a wetsuit (for those few who'd actually dive with it). Still I love the look of this model especially in black (I like it better than the blue one which is usually the opposite of my preference).
> 
> View attachment 12103690


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## Stelyos

Doesn't look that big










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## automan69

I own a BN0150 you show on the right. Citizen's new diver Eco Drive on the left is quite handsome comparatively as the BN0150 though not flattered by the factory silicon strap many change including me.



Stelyos said:


> Doesn't look that big
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> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## mi6_

Stelyos said:


> Doesn't look that big
> 
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> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


No I'm not sure why they say it's 45mm. It looks to have about the same diameter and lug to lug as the BN0150. So should wear well on a smaller wrist. Glad to see Canada has them now too.

I like the strap as it's fitted. One of the reasons I dislike straps is they leave a big gap by the lugs if they aren't fitted to the case.


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## mrhallorann

Well, huge respects to Duty Free Island for whizzing me my new BN0193-17E over from Hong Kong - and in less than a week! Amazing service.

Ever since seeing the black and rose gold Mido Ocean Star Captain V (posted over on the best affordable watch of 2016 thread), I'd been lusting after one. But at £800 a pop, it was outside of my current budget range. Then Citizen launches this little star in Eco-Drive flavour and I just had to have one. So, after my ceremonial unboxing and an evening's wearing I have to say I am chuffed to bits with this watch and am very happy to have it as a substitute. My first auto will just have to wait - this Eco-Drives just keep smashing it out of the park!

Well, I promised a review, so here goes....

First off, the face: This is a handsome looking watch, that borrows inspiration from Omega and Tag. It's a lovely balance of confident understatement and bold, modern forms. The jet black face has a radial grain that gives a wonderful sunburst effect and completely disguises the solar panel behind it (not a hint of that four-quarter effect that is visible through other models' faces in bright sunlight). The generously chunky rose-gold-beaded indices float over a shallow 'trench' that holds them all together around the watch face. The hands, which are subtly cambered to catch the light and shadow, have pleasingly girthy proportions and sit well against the indices. The hour hand just kisses the points of the incidices, while the minute hand makes sure to reach right across to their outer edges. My only complaint here is with the second hand, which - also being gold - sometimes gets lost. It would have been nice to see a splash of colour against the black and gold; maybe a blood red or bright blue would have added a wink of sporting fun to things? Also, on my unit at least, the second hand misses the chapter ring's second indices by as much as a quarter space, which is irritating. I've several Citizens with an E168 movement and all the others are bang-on. Oh well, being an import, I'll just have to learn to live with it. Moving on. The date wheel is white with black text, which is the right amount of contrast, somehow making the Citizen Eco-Drive date window appear a fraction shallower than usual - it's easily legible, even when overshadowed. Although I've moaned in another thread about how I wished Citizen would apply their brand name to new watches rather than printing them, in this case I can make a concession. The crisply printed, white Citizen, Promaster and Eco-drive logos, along with the 'Diver's 200m' text sit well against the white lume-filled indices and hands. The lume itself is Citizen's usual bright blue affair and looks very vivid when charged up, thought it's too early to tell how long this lasts into the night.

The bezel, crown and barrel: The bezel was probably what sold this model to me the hardest. The font is bang up to the minute and is probably what reminds me of Omega's divers the most. I can't tell how Citizen have applied the black minute ring to the bezel, but it appears to be a separate material entirely from the gold bezel and has been inlaid into it. The metallic 10-minute numbers and 5-minute batons are very sharp-edged against the black material, which, whatever it is, looks more durable than paint on metal. I certainly hope so anyway. The bezel is brushed on its external surfaces, with the notches being polished inside, which really catch the light and add some pleasing bling to proceedings. The crown is also a novel departure from convention for Citizen. It's inward-tapered profile looks almost like something from a pilot's watch and adds a dressier flair to appearances. I like it a lot, especially since Citizen were mindful to acknowledge the Promaster heritage of the model with the arrow logo proudly etched in to the crown's polished face. The case back is your standard (very nicely done) Citizen laser-etched affair with the Citizen Eco-Drive text wrapping around the globe motif. It would've been nice to see the Promaster logo making an appearance somewhere on here too. The watch barrel and lugs are also brushed into a satin effect, which really shows off the depth of the rose-gold colour. The final flourish of gorgeous detail, is the polishing, with runs down the shoulder of the barrel, from lug to lug and really catches the eye. The last hidden detail is the polishing of the internal angles of the lugs, a feature which again looks very Omega-esque and gets two-thumbs-up from me.

Finally, the strap and buckle. The strap was the second reason for my wanting this watch in my collection, over the blue and steel bracelet version. The smooth black satin silicone-rubber strap pairs perfectly with the black face and bezel and feels very comfortable against the skin. It is finished with an appropriately weighty rose-gold metal, Citizen-embossed buckle. My only grumble is that the strap, which only features two parallel tramlines running down its length, is perhaps a little too plain - after seeing the amazing 'Promaster'-emblazoned rubber strap Citizen have put on their new BN4044-15E, I think this could have benefitted from the same in-your-face graphics.

Overall, I am very pleased with this new model. All the more so since it is extremely exclusive, not being available on the standard UK market. Its styling will not be to every diver-fan's taste, being probably too dressy for some. But for me it has a definite place in my box and will be very versatile - likely looking just as good on an evening, worn under a suit jacket cuff as it will the next morning, pool-side in a pair of swimming shorts and Ray-Bans.

Well done Citizen!

I hope you enjoy this evening's first photos - I tried to use the evening's sunset to compliment the rose gold.


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## mi6_

Not usually a fan of rose gold but I really think it looks great on this watch. The rose gold combined with the dressy markers is just oozing pure class. I'm torn between the rose gold and the black model. If you are willing and have the ability do you mind measuring the diameter without the crown, the lug to lug height and thickness?

I have a Prime (BN0151-09L) and Excaliber (BN0100-51E). Both have the E168 movement as well. The Prime hits every 60 second marker flawlessly and the Excalibur is off about a 1/4 as well. I love both the watches so I just learned to live with it. At least, unlike Seiko, the crown, bezel and chapter rings are all aligned on my Promaster divers.

Im patiently awaiting someone to post pics of the blue model on the bracelet. I'm interested in seeing the new bracelet clasp.


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## mi6_

Found a short video of the blue model on bracelet. Dissapointed to see it's got a fairly cheap stamped clasp with no visible diver's extension. The old Promaster clasps lacked micro adjustments but were a forged/machined clasp with the cool ratcheting diver's extension. I'm a bit dissapointed especially since the price of this watch is more than the other 200m Promaster divers.


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## brammiebal

Got the BN0190-82E in today, which is basically the black dial version with a bracelet. I switched the bracelet with the zuludiver NATO strap from my skx007 to see how it would look.

It is meant as a gift for my dad, who has much larger wrists. On my small wrist it looks on the large side. The watch looks and wears very 'premium', which is the reason I think that some people find it too dressy for a divewatch. In my opinion it is a very classy handsome watch!

Thanks to Dutyfree island for the quick delivery (within 7 days to Europe!).

Sorry for the bad light in the pictures, it was pouring outside


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## EpochClock

brammiebal said:


> Got the BN0190-82E in today, which is basically the black dial version with a bracelet.
> Thanks to Dutyfree island for the quick delivery (within 7 days to Europe!).


It looks really sharp!! I'm looking forward to ordering one. Hopefully DutyFreeIsland will restock them, or they're released in US markets soon.

Does anyone have an idea on the US release date of the BN0190-82E?
BN0191-55L and BN0190-07E are already available. :think:


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## norsairius

I haven't picked up a watch in about a year and actually got an Apple Watch from my wife that I wear most of the time (especially at work anyway where it's most useful). However, I recently decided that outside of work I plan to wear the Apple watch less so I can disconnect more.

With that, I saw this thread and couldn't help myself and ordered the blue dial w/bracelet version from eBay. Looks like the Asian market has a model # BN0191-80L (which is what's on Duty Free Island) but it shows up as BN0191-55L in the US market. I can't see any difference, so I ordered a 55L off of eBay just now. Should arrive by Monday, if not sooner.

I have this watch's predecessor, the BN0150 (or BN0151 for the blue dial/bezel) or "Prime" as it was nicknamed, on a bracelet so I'll try and post some comparison pics (to add to what's already been posted). The Prime looks pretty big on my wimpy wrist, so I'm curious to see how this newer model feels and fits.

Based on what I've seen, in my opinion, this newer model looks dressier (in a good way) but doesn't have as nice of a bracelet as the Prime. The Prime's OEM bracelet has a built-in ratcheting diver's extension and solid endlinks and feels heavy. Curious to see how this newer model's bracelet compares and feels.


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## norsairius

The watch arrived! An informal review/comparison to the old model, "Prime":
This newer model (BN0190/191) is definitely dressier than the old Prime (BN0150/151), so I think the two complement each other very well and won't really compete for your attention too much because one works better in certain situations than the other would. In general though, either the Prime or this new model will work well for daily duty with the new one working well potentially even in "dressy" situations.

The new model (what are we going to call it???) seems to have more little details to look at with the hour markers and the subtle ring on the dial while the Prime has a simpler overall look. Bezel action is nice and solid, like the old Prime, and is a 60-click bezel.

Either watch will work well for you depending on what your preferences are, which will ultimately be subjective. However, the one thing that is objectively worse on the new model is the clasp. The folding portion of the clasps is stamped metal on the new model compared to the more substantial folding portion with the Prime's bracelet. The latching part of the new model's clasp though is actually pretty good in my book. The ratcheting diver's extension is unfortunately missing from the new model. Otherwise, the bracelets themselves on both the Prime and new model are pretty good with the new model's bracelet offering some polished touches.

The bracelet ultimately won't matter if you prefer to wear the watch on a NATO/Zulu, rubber, or leather strap. To that end, from what I've seen in pictures, I like the rubber strap on the new model more than I do the one that came with the Prime. I say that though without having tried either. From what I can tell, the new model has 22mm lugs as the 20mm Zulu that I have for the Prime is too narrow and the 24mm that I have for another watch of mine is too wide. I'd have a hard time believing that Citizen would use an odd width like 23mm for this watch.

Lume is like the Prime in that the hour markers and second hands have a teal color with the pip at 12 o'clock on the bezel having that lime green. I personally really like the look of the teal lume, but I wouldn't say it lasts particularly long either.

Size-wise, the design of the two watches appears to make the new model look bigger (to me, anyway), but after comparing in person, they seem to be about the same size. To put it another way, any size difference between them that you may find likely won't be significant enough to matter. That's the way I see it anyway.

Quality control is good with this watch as the second hand hits all the markers on the chapter ring, the bezel is properly aligned, and the hour markers all appear to be nicely-aligned as well.

Overall, I really like this new model and I could even see myself wearing it more than the Prime, but I'm definitely keeping the Prime around for its more durable and tool-diver looks. Both this new model and the Prime will see plenty of wear in the years to come.

Citizen divers don't have the history and pedigree of Seiko's divers, but the quality control seems to be more consistent and I see no reason why this model (along with the Prime) wouldn't be as good, if not better, than some of the Seiko divers. I understand if I come off as a fanboy, but I'll add that I had an SKX009 (came with a misaligned bezel, but it was an easy fix) and a Monster that I really liked. I handed them down to my younger brother though as he has more of an appreciation for automatics these days while I have come to prefer the practicality of Citizen's Eco Drive movements.

Now, some (lots of) pics!

The Promaster box is CRAZY. It's a light-feeling plastic, but it's a nice touch. Market Pantry loaf of bread from Target for scale, hahah.








Watch sitting in the box








Watch with 42mm Apple Watch next to it, for scale/size reference








Prime on the left, new model on the right (anyone thought of a name yet? )








Folding portion of the clasp on the new model. As noted in my little review, the folding portion is a bit disappointing but the actual latching part is pretty good and similar to the one on the Prime's bracelet.








You can see here that the clasp/folding portion of the bracelet on the Prime is noticeably more robust.








Out of curiosity, I tried seeing if the Prime's bracelet would fit right on the new model, but it does not. The Prime's bracelet is 20mm at the lugs while the new model appears to be 22mm. If this would have worked though it would have been AWESOME.








On a brighter note though, the bracelet on the new model has solid endlinks.








As with the bracelet on the Prime, you'll want to be careful when resizing it because of the tiny metal sleeves that help keep each pin secure. They can be easy to lose!








Prime and new model side-by-side on my bony wrist. Definitely at the upper end of what I'm willing to tolerate wearing, though I'm sure to some they look too big. The watch wears comfortably though.








A couple wrist shots with just the new model.















Lume shots! The lens I'd normally use to take this broke so I settled for this cropped pic.








Another pic of the lume, taken with my phone (iPhone 7).








Pic of my collection now with the new diver!







The bracelet on this new diver is actually like the one on the watch my wife (then fiancee) gave me.

That's all I've got! Let me know if you have any pic requests or questions about the watch.


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## Worker

Looks really good!

Congrats on a great addition!


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## brandon\

norsairius said:


> Prime on the left, new model on the right (anyone thought of a name yet? )


Caliburn or Clarent. A play on Excalibur.

https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/20/are-excalibur-and-caliburn-different-swords


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## norsairius

brandon\ said:


> Caliburn or Clarent. A play on Excalibur.
> 
> https://mythology.stackexchange.com/questions/20/are-excalibur-and-caliburn-different-swords


Good idea! I was actually thinking about something related to swords since the hour markers reminded me of them.

I wouldn't want to make this decision without more agreeing or chiming in though. What do others think?


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## CLP

Are you able to transplant just the clasp from the Prime bracelet onto the 191 bracelet? 

I'm assuming they should both be 20mm.


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## norsairius

mi6_ said:


> You sure about that? LIW is not listed as an "Authorized Internet Retailer" on the Citizen USA website:
> Authorized Internet Retailers - Citizen Watch - English (US)
> 
> I know LIW has a great reputation and many happy customers but they are a grey market dealer for some brands as far as I know. They also claim to be an authorized Seiko dealer (or so it says on their Seiko page) but I looked into this in the fall of 2015 and found out they weren't (this may admittedly have changed since then). That said I'd certainly buy from them as their reputation is great.


Huh, I guess not. Their reputation and service has been so good though that I assumed they were. Heck, based on some of the stories I've read around here about LIW, they're probably better than some authorized retailers! In any case, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arogle1stus

Doesn't Citizen/Miyota realize how hard it is to getta dollar these days? Damned hard.
Guess I'll need to wait til this beauty finds it's way to the Bay or Craigs List or a local
Estate Sale!!!

X Traindriver Art


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## Roadhog

I haven't seen it posted, so I will ask . . . 22/23mm lug space, what about the gap from the case to the spring bar? Nato always fits, what about a heavier/thicker zulu?


----------



## barryireland

That's a gorgeous looking watch for the price.
The blue one is very tempting.


----------



## narcosynthesis

Seeing this thread earlier had me very interested in this watch as a slightly dressier equivalent to some of the divers I have owned like the BN0000 and BN0147 - both of those are brilliant watches, but tend more to the casual/tool looks, while this just seems slightly more polished and dressy.

Happy I got my hands on the BN0190 on the rubber strap and BN0191 on the bracelet today, and I can say that in person they look superb and fit my desire for a slightly nicer finished and dressier looking diver perfectly.
The one thing that did stand out to me was the clasp which does seem a bit of a letdown compared to the rest of the watch - it is a more basic stamped metal construction which just feels cheaper and flimsier than the nicer machined clasp on my BN0147 or something like a Seiko SARB033. Something that won't be an issue at all when you are actually wearing it (though having a ratcheting system can be handy), but worth noting.
I was wandering if it would be possible to swap out the clasp for a nicer alternative, though I will admit to being fairly clueless as to where you could get something to actually fit.

The one other oddity that appeared is the fact that Citizen UK only seem to over the BN0190 with a resin strap and the BN0191 with a bracelet - there was no mention of them being available with the alternative strap (though we did check in the shop - the sizing is identical so the 919 strap fits the 190 perfectly), and no mention of the rose gold version posted earlier in the thread.

Ultimately, I am being very tempted by the BN0190 as a future addition to my wee collection...


----------



## SolarCycles1963

That is one fine looking diver and makes my decision for my next purchase even harder now as I had my choices down to the Seiko SRP775 or the Steinhart Ocean 1, now I know this isn't a Mechanical watch but the looks alone have me salivating. The cheapest price for the black dial/rubber strap here in the UK I've found is £199, that's some £100+ cheaper than my previous choices and is just as good looking probably more so than the Seiko. The one issue is the mineral glass, how does this rate to Seikos Hardex glass?


----------



## clyde_frog

SolarCycles1963 said:


> That is one fine looking diver and makes my decision for my next purchase even harder now as I had my choices down to the Seiko SRP775 or the Steinhart Ocean 1, now I know this isn't a Mechanical watch but the looks alone have me salivating. The cheapest price for the black dial/rubber strap here in the UK I've found is £199, that's some £100+ cheaper than my previous choices and is just as good looking probably more so than the Seiko. The one issue is the mineral glass, how does this rate to Seikos Hardex glass?


Not as good apparently, I think it's just your standard mineral crystal and Citizen don't do anything special to it like Seiko do. On the other hand Citizen put sapphire crystals in a lot more of their watches than Seiko (who seem to think it's acceptable to put hardlex in watches that cost upwards of half a grand).


----------



## EpochClock

Well, I'm taking a gamble and ordered one through ebay from Japan. *Fingers Crossed*


----------



## mi6_

SolarCycles1963 said:


> That is one fine looking diver and makes my decision for my next purchase even harder now as I had my choices down to the Seiko SRP775 or the Steinhart Ocean 1, now I know this isn't a Mechanical watch but the looks alone have me salivating. The cheapest price for the black dial/rubber strap here in the UK I've found is £199, that's some £100+ cheaper than my previous choices and is just as good looking probably more so than the Seiko. The one issue is the mineral glass, how does this rate to Seikos Hardex glass?


It is a Citizen mineral crystal with an inside AR coating (or at least they do that on their other divers). Technically a Seiko Hardlex crystal should be a bit more scratch resistant. The reason a mineral crystal is used is for impact resistance. I think they'd have to use a thicker sapphire crystal to pass the ISO6425 standard which would increase the cost of the watch.

I've worn my Citizen BN0151-09L for almost 2 years. My crystal is scratch free and I know I've banged it around because I have a chip in the aluminum bezel insert. So in my experience the Citizen "mineral crystal" is pretty resistant to scratches. I've bought other Citizen divers since and haven't had a problem with any of the mineral crystal. They are cheap to replace and I'll have it fixed if I get a bigger scratch one day.


----------



## narcosynthesis

mi6_ said:


> It is a Citizen mineral crystal with an inside AR coating (or at least they do that on their other divers). Technically a Seiko Hardlex crystal should be a bit more scratch resistant. The reason a mineral crystal is used is for impact resistance. I think they'd have to use a thicker sapphire crystal to pass the ISO6425 standard which would increase the cost of the watch.
> 
> I've worn my Citizen BN0151-09L for almost 2 years. My crystal is scratch free and I know I've banged it around because I have a chip in the aluminum bezel insert. So in my experience the Citizen "mineral crystal" is pretty resistant to scratches. I've bought other Citizen divers since and haven't had a problem with any of the mineral crystal. They are cheap to replace and I'll have it fixed if I get a bigger scratch one day.


My understanding is that a sapphire crystal is more scratch resistant, but is also more brittle. The mineral crystal on the other hand is much easier to scratch, but won't shatter in the same way. Because of that a sapphire crystal is generally preferable in normal life as it keeps your watch looking good, but when it is being designed to be a crucial safety item used underwater it is preferable to have a crystal that gets scratched when you knock it, not shatter and flood the watch.

Either way, my BN0000 has now picked up a few scratches on the mineral crystal after 7 1/2 years of wearing it as a beater - but at the same time, rather than being a massive issue, if I were bothered I could put in a bit of effort to clean up and polish the crystal and have it looking as good as new...


----------



## mi6_

narcosynthesis said:


> My understanding is that a sapphire crystal is more scratch resistant, but is also more brittle. The mineral crystal on the other hand is much easier to scratch, but won't shatter in the same way. Because of that a sapphire crystal is generally preferable in normal life as it keeps your watch looking good, but when it is being designed to be a crucial safety item used underwater it is preferable to have a crystal that gets scratched when you knock it, not shatter and flood the watch.
> 
> Either way, my BN0000 has now picked up a few scratches on the mineral crystal after 7 1/2 years of wearing it as a beater - but at the same time, rather than being a massive issue, if I were bothered I could put in a bit of effort to clean up and polish the crystal and have it looking as good as new...


Yeah that sounds right. Sapphire is very scratch resistant but it shatters more easily on impacts. Sapphire crystals also cost more than mineral crystals. I could be wrong but I'm not sure if you can polish a mineral crystal. I think that's more commonly done an acrylic crystals.


----------



## norsairius

narcosynthesis said:


> My understanding is that a sapphire crystal is more scratch resistant, but is also more brittle. The mineral crystal on the other hand is much easier to scratch, but won't shatter in the same way. Because of that a sapphire crystal is generally preferable in normal life as it keeps your watch looking good, but when it is being designed to be a crucial safety item used underwater it is preferable to have a crystal that gets scratched when you knock it, not shatter and flood the watch.
> 
> Either way, my BN0000 has now picked up a few scratches on the mineral crystal after 7 1/2 years of wearing it as a beater - but at the same time, rather than being a massive issue, if I were bothered I could put in a bit of effort to clean up and polish the crystal and have it looking as good as new...


Correct - as a practical matter, many diver's watches come with mineral crystals because they are less likely to shatter while underwater.

Mineral crystal = softer, easier to scratch, harder to shatter
Sapphire crystal = harder, more scratch resistant, easier to shatter

It'd be better to have a scratched crystal than a shattered one while underwater.


----------



## clyde_frog

Let's be realistic though. What percentage of people buying diver watches these days are going to go diving with their watches and bang it around on rocks etc. underwater? If we're talking practicality, then surely sapphire is more practical for the majority. Also a lot of these dive watches are clearly made with the focus more on style and looking good as an accessory than practicality as an underwater timing device, imo. Although I will say, I think you're far more likely to move your arm fast enough to break the glass on your watch out of water than you are in it.


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## mi6_

Stopped by a watch store in the mall and saw they had a Citizen BN0190-07E (the black dial on rubber strap). I actually liked it better in person than it appears in photos. It looks really classy and elegant and looks like a more expensive watch than it is. I was worried the size would be too much but it wears no where near the 45mm Citizen specs for this watch. It wears more like a 42mm and has a short lug to lug so I'd be perfectly comfortable wearing it on my little 6.5" wrist (very similar size to the BN0150/151 series). The rubber strap is fantastic and has a soft supple feel to it but has too long of a tail for my liking. I have a Citizen Excaliber with the same quality of strap which for some reason is significantly better than the stiff rubber strap that comes on the Prime (BN0150/151 series).

Unfortunately they didn't have the blue version on bracelet in stock. The cheap stamped clasp is holding me back from getting this watch (I prefer the bracelet over the rubber strap personally). I have two Promaster divers with the cool ratcheting dive extension and the excellent machined clasp and it seems like Citizen has taken a step back with this bracelet. I'll have to wait to see how reasonably priced the bracelet on its own is as I'd rather buy the black version on rubber to have both the option of the strap and bracelet.

I just bought a Seiko a few weeks ago (an SNE107P1 which is an excellent Solar diver for small wrists BTW) so I'm trying to put off buying this new Citizen for as long as possible (or as long as my willpower lasts). It's retail is $425 CAD and they offered me 20% off for $340 CAD. The watch store chain (Watch It) has it for $297.50 CAD on their website so I passed. Didn't like the fact they assumed I was ignorant and tried to gouge me. I understand businesses need to make a profit but set a fair price and don't try take advantage of customers. I digress...

I really want this thing but I know I already have too many watches. My wife is going to kill me.... Sorry for no photos, I had my 2 year old son with me and didn't think of it at the time.


----------



## larzbrah

Loving mine. Gonna alternate between this and my skx007 for my daily wear

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Al30909

Roadhog said:


> I haven't seen it posted, so I will ask . . . 22/23mm lug space, what about the gap from the case to the spring bar? Nato always fits, what about a heavier/thicker zulu?


I would like to know also. I have been very disappointed in the past to find out i was very limited on strap options on other Citizens.


----------



## EpochClock

EpochClock said:


> Well, I'm taking a gamble and ordered one through ebay from Japan. *Fingers Crossed*


It showed up the other week, then I was on vacation, and now I'm just lazy. So now pictures yet, but the BN0190-82E is everything I hoped it would be!!


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## narcosynthesis

clyde_frog said:


> Let's be realistic though. What percentage of people buying diver watches these days are going to go diving with their watches and bang it around on rocks etc. underwater? If we're talking practicality, then surely sapphire is more practical for the majority. Also a lot of these dive watches are clearly made with the focus more on style and looking good as an accessory than practicality as an underwater timing device, imo. Although I will say, I think you're far more likely to move your arm fast enough to break the glass on your watch out of water than you are in it.


Realistically very few of these watches will ever see water, let alone SCUBA use...

At the same time, the moment Citizen, Seiko or any other company decide to get it dive rated, that really implies it is being made properly for dive use, which is where we might start seeing oddities like the crystal material that makes sense *if* it gets dive use, but not so much on dry land.

I have wandered why we don't see more non-rated dive style watches - there are plenty out there from Casio and other brands who go for the style without the ISO rating, yet Citizen (and Seiko) seem intent on doing it properly - if it is a dive style watch with the rotating bezel, it gets the full dive treatment.

Then to complicate things you also get odd watches that buck the trend... the BN0147 for example is advertised as a limited edition built for the British Royal Marines Commandos, comes fully ISO rated and is fitted with a sapphire crystal. So while it makes sense in theory considering the more brittle nature of sapphire crystals as a reason against their use in dive watches, this isn't universal, even in the Citizen range.


----------



## clyde_frog

narcosynthesis said:


> Realistically very few of these watches will ever see water, let alone SCUBA use...
> 
> At the same time, the moment Citizen, Seiko or any other company decide to get it dive rated, that really implies it is being made properly for dive use, which is where we might start seeing oddities like the crystal material that makes sense *if* it gets dive use, but not so much on dry land.
> 
> I have wandered why we don't see more non-rated dive style watches - there are plenty out there from Casio and other brands who go for the style without the ISO rating, yet Citizen (and Seiko) seem intent on doing it properly - if it is a dive style watch with the rotating bezel, it gets the full dive treatment.
> 
> Then to complicate things you also get odd watches that buck the trend... the BN0147 for example is advertised as a limited edition built for the British Royal Marines Commandos, comes fully ISO rated and is fitted with a sapphire crystal. So while it makes sense in theory considering the more brittle nature of sapphire crystals as a reason against their use in dive watches, this isn't universal, even in the Citizen range.


Both Seiko and Citizen do a fair few diver-style watches that aren't ISO compliant, look at all of the Seiko 5 diver-style watches for example. I've seen a few Citizens but not so many as Seiko.

I have the BN0147 and when I went looking at it in a jewellers once the woman in there told me it was actually given to the Royal Marines by Citizen as well haha, surely nonsense, didn't believe it for a second and I'm be very surprised if I found it was true.


----------



## narcosynthesis

To stick to the topic:

I managed to pick up the BN0190 locally a couple of weeks ago, which I am absolutely loving. I am really liking the slightly smarter look compared to something like the BN0151 or an SKX007, which I feel makes for a lovely watch that can be very versatile.

For some reason Citizen Europe only list the black faced version on the rubber strap, so while I have the stock watch, I have not yet gotten hold of the replacement bracelet I ordered to go with it - from handling it in the shop (as sold on the blue faced BN0191 equivalent) the clasp was the only part that felt out of place and cheaper (compared to the machined clasps on other watches I have handled such as the SARB033 or AT series), so I am wandering if it will be possible to swap it out for a nicer version from another watch - probably a bit of a long shot and unlikely to work, but worth a try anyway.

Interestingly the cost of the additional bracelet from Citizen was less than the price difference between the two models (black on rubber and blue on steel), so I am managing to get the watch I wanted (black on steel) with a extra strap for less than the stock bracelet version...


----------



## narcosynthesis

clyde_frog said:


> Both Seiko and Citizen do a fair few diver-style watches that aren't ISO compliant, look at all of the Seiko 5 diver-style watches for example. I've seen a few Citizens but not so many as Seiko.
> 
> I have the BN0147 and when I went looking at it in a jewellers once the woman in there told me it was actually given to the Royal Marines by Citizen as well haha, surely nonsense, didn't believe it for a second and I'm be very surprised if I found it was true.


My mistake then - it must have just been coincidence that al of the dive style watches I have taken an interest in have been ISO rated.

As for the 'military issue' bit, I do believe the BN0000 is issued to some units, but I will admit to being similarly sceptical about whether a limited edition model was ever issued - an awesome watch though, branded or not.
Similarly I wouldn't really be expecting to see a Red Arrows branded AT on a pilots wrist, but they sure are nice watches...


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## Shuutr

Holy smokes this thing is sexy. I think I'm in love.


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## norsairius

Back in stock at DFI except for gold/back w/rubber band: Search results for: 'bn019' | Dutyfreeislandshop.com


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## treblarefils

Yep back in stock i got a notification and bought it right away missed it the last time well see how it is when it arrives.


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## larzbrah

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shuutr

larzbrah said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mmmmm. I like it. But I don't think that is a BN-0191


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## smille76

All versions are in stock now at DutyFreeIsland . Got a black one on bracelet for 203$.

Cheers,

Seb


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## Radar1

smille76 said:


> All versions are in stock now at DutyFreeIsland . Got a black one on bracelet for 203$.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Seb


Me too. Thanks for the heads-up - and brilliant enabling. Lol. |>


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## 356746

I just ordered the BN0190-82E from DFI. Do you know where i can find the original rubber strap?


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## smille76

356746 said:


> I just ordered the BN0190-82E from DFI. Do you know where i can find the original rubber strap?


Hi,

This has 22mm lugs.

Unless you have a really strong liking to the OEM rubber strap, you can use mostly any aftermarket rubber strap (Bonetto Cinturini, Borealis, Obris Morgan).

Better look IMO and probably way cheaper than the OEM strap.

Cheers,

Seb

Sent from my T10(E3C5) using Tapatalk


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## treblarefils

Word of caution be ready for stuck pins when resizing mine was a pain i had to use a bit of penetrating oil to slip thrugh the collars my pin pusher tool only pushes the pin out so far and pin was stuck. The bracelet is definitely 22mm i was expecting a 20mm bracelet but oh well. Also the watch is pretty big but it is very nice and has awesome lume.


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## mrhallorann

Citizen will sell you replacement straps directly. I plan on putting the more visually interesting Promaster logo'd strap from the new Alticron BN4044-15E (about £25 from Citizen UK spares) on my black and gold BN0193-17E


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## Radar1

Mine has landed. Looks like a fantastic watch for the money and perfect size. Rumours of an overly large watch were unfounded. Bracelet isn't sized yet, but should give a decent idea on a 7.25" wrist. Sorry for the crappy cell pics.


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## Beau M

I really like the black / rose gold version. Any chance there is a rose gold bracelet to match, instead of the rubber strap?


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## mrhallorann

Beau M said:


> I really like the black / rose gold version. Any chance there is a rose gold bracelet to match, instead of the rubber strap?


Don't think there is Beau M. That would be mega bling!


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## 356746

BN0190-82E & BC 300D


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## arogle1stus

Mi6:
I currently own 4 Citizens. Incl an EcoZilla
This new citizen's appearance I can enjoy.
But a higher price point? I Cannot!
Is Citizen trying to price itself out of the
F71 market? 

X Traindriver Art


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## Radar1

I threw mine on a Hirsch Liberty and it looks fantastic. The stock bracelet and clasp are merely standard fare for a watch at this price point - which is to say only ok.


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## Radar1

arogle1stus said:


> Mi6:
> I currently own 4 Citizens. Incl an EcoZilla
> This new citizen's appearance I can enjoy.
> But a higher price point? I Cannot!
> Is Citizen trying to price itself out of the
> F71 market?
> 
> X Traindriver Art


Mine was $203 from Duty Free Island. Solid value.


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## mrhallorann

Radar1 said:


> I threw mine on a Hirsch Liberty and it looks fantastic. The stock bracelet and clasp are merely standard fare for a watch at this price point - which is to say only ok.


That looks the NUTS


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## morphious

Very excited, as I have found an in new condition BN0191-82E on eBay for $165.00 including all original packaging. It will be replacing my old E110-S000122WT of which I have 2 (one bought new and one eBay replacement) that have both over the years been penetrated by moisture. These watches are amazing, both my old ones have been beaten to death as I wear my watches daily and while doing everything, only reason for replacement is the loss of waterproofing as they still keep accurate time. Almost bought an BN0191-55L but the blue just doesn't do it for me so bought an Invicta 8926OB but just love my Citizen and will be selling it after a week and wearing my old E110 until this bad boy arrives. So happy I was able to find the black.


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## EpochClock

Radar1 said:


> I threw mine on a Hirsch Liberty and it looks fantastic. The stock bracelet and clasp are merely standard fare for a watch at this price point - which is to say only ok.


Yeah, that combo looks great. I hope you don't mind if I copy it!!


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## mi6_

arogle1stus said:


> Mi6:
> I currently own 4 Citizens. Incl an EcoZilla
> This new citizen's appearance I can enjoy.
> But a higher price point? I Cannot!
> Is Citizen trying to price itself out of the
> F71 market?
> 
> X Traindriver Art


Yes I agree. While I like this watch there isn't anything to justify this watch's price increase over any of the other Promaster divers. The plain stamped metal clasp with no divers extension is very dissapointing. I love the ratcheting divers extension on my recent Promaster Divers (Prime & Excaliber). So pending a really good Black Friday sale I'm planning on skipping this model altogether.

I really want to hold out for a more expensive Citizen Diver with a sapphire and maybe super titanium. I had a look at the Royal Marines Diver sold in the UK with the black DLC coating while at the Citizen store in Las Vegas a month ago. Like it but the cyclops and DLC didn't do it for me and the 43mm size was near the top end of what I'm comfortable wearing. Strangely they didn't have any of the BN0180's and were clueless about them when I asked.


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## mart13

NorthMac said:


> Seiko has now made 39mm versions of their Air Diver Ti Solar line (SBDN019 etc), and compared to the 44mm versions they just look shrunken - guessing they sell mainly as womens' versions to make paired sets (and yes, many men will have 6-inch or so wrist size so need this size to be sure). To me this just suggests that divers aesthetically need to be in the 42-44mm minimum size just to have the right presence as divers; this Citizen is in the right ballpark and demure compared to say, the new GS divers, spring drive Seiko divers, Tunas, etc (not to mention much thinner due to the caliber). SS case and mineral crystal should keep the cost down; it might have potential as a backup / beater diver to my Seiko mech. Thanks for the find!


Beautiful looking piece ... it would look a lot better on rubber strap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## morphious

Out with the old, in with the new.


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## jeffvc61

I bought this watch a couple of months ago, and honestly the jury is still out on this one for me. I like the looks of the watch and wear it with a fair amount of frequency, but somehow it doesn't seem as 'substantial' as several of my others. Could be too much on the dress side, not quite enough on the tool side of the spectrum. Also, it seems to wear a bit bigger than the specs indicate. Although the lug to lug is relatively short (under 50mm.. and the diameter isn't huge, the face looks wider than my 007 and even my Sumo. Like I said originally, the jury is still out....


----------



## James142

I like it


----------



## narcosynthesis

mi6_ said:


> Yes I agree. While I like this watch there isn't anything to justify this watch's price increase over any of the other Promaster divers. The plain stamped metal clasp with no divers extension is very dissapointing. I love the ratcheting divers extension on my recent Promaster Divers (Prime & Excaliber). So pending a really good Black Friday sale I'm planning on skipping this model altogether.
> 
> I really want to hold out for a more expensive Citizen Diver with a sapphire and maybe super titanium. I had a look at the Royal Marines Diver sold in the UK with the black DLC coating while at the Citizen store in Las Vegas a month ago. Like it but the cyclops and DLC didn't do it for me and the 43mm size was near the top end of what I'm comfortable wearing. Strangely they didn't have any of the BN0180's and were clueless about them when I asked.


If you are interested in the Commando diver, have a look around for one of the alternative variants - alongside the black version I have also seen a natural titanium version and I believe there was another model with black bezel too which may suit a slightly more traditional style better.

Discussing the bracelets, in hand the bracelet of the BN0190 does feel a bit more basic than those of most of my other watches (understandably so, given the difference in price between them), but on my wrist I can't say I have any complaints, and actually find the fit more comfortable than that of the ratcheting clasp and titanium bracelet on the BN0147.


----------



## narcosynthesis

I can say that after having the BN0190 for a couple of months now, I am definitely a big fan of it - though I am getting ever more confused with the amount of variants that seem to have appeared...

Regarding the bracelet and clasp - I will admit that it isn't quite as nice feeling as some of my other watches, but at the same time it is also notably cheaper than most of those too... As an interesting note I have found that the clasp of my AT8025 is a direct swap with the clasp of the 0190's bracelet - obviously it doesn't have a divers extension or have the second folding clasp, but does give you a nicer machined clasp rather than the cheaper feeling stamped metal version if you feel it is worth the upgrade and don't see the extra security of the extra folding piece as necessary. The AT8025 version may also look slightly out of place being black ion coated, but if that fits then I can't see why the clasps of some of the brushed steel equivalents (AT8020, 8060, etc) wouldn't fit too (though obviously I make no guarantee's).


----------



## automan69

Will share only my opinion. To me the watch looks a bit big by virtue of the proportions not, the overall size. I also don't like busy stainless bracelets. I prefer cleaner oyster bracelets. I prefer my BN0150 with factory stainless bracelet or I would flip the BN0150 and pick up the 0190. Just not feeling it. Also if the 0190 does not have sliding micro adjust..another win for the 0150.
Again to me, the 0190 looks almost 'pretty' for a diver. A diver I believe should look purposeful...or more tool like and why the BN0150 I believe has its following.


----------



## Shuutr

Tried a Nato. I like it.


----------



## Dr. Wong

Very nice Citizen! Can someone confirm if it's indeed 22mm lug width?

Also, saw a video claiming the BN0150/151 can adjust hour hand independently (how do you do that?), while the BN0190/191 cannot. Is that true? Thanks for confirm.


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## 356746

Yes, it's 22 mm. No, you can not adjust the hour hand independently.


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## Dr. Wong

356746 said:


> Yes, it's 22 mm. No, you can not adjust the hour hand independently.


Thank you! Do you or anyone know how it's done (independent hour hand) in the BN0150/151? It's a relatively inexpensive watch to have that feature, kind of in doubt if it's true.


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## mi6_

Dr. Wong said:


> Thank you! Do you or anyone know how it's done (independent hour hand) in the BN0150/151? It's a relatively inexpensive watch to have that feature, kind of in doubt if it's true.


You can't independently adjust the hour hand on a BN0150/151 either. Both watches have the exact same Citizen E168 movement. Whoever told you that doesn't know what they are talking about.


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## huwp

Heads up Australians - Myer currently has the black version on rubber on clearance - I picked one up in store this morning for less than AU$225 (reduced to AU$299 and then a further 25% off). A steal at that price - don't know about stock.


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## linds

huwp said:


> A steal at that price - don't know about stock.


Thanks for the heads-up huwp. Picked one up at Myer Perth for $225. Nice watch, I've had my eye on an Orient Mako/Ray II but I'm a sucker for the eco-drive. I'm very impressed with the lume too.


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## Shuutr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Citizen-Pr...tainless-Steel-Watch-BN0191-55L-/172962800923

$175 on eBay


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## maccasvanquish

Shuutr said:


> Tried a Nato. I like it.


How close are the spring bars to the case? Wondering about fitting a thick nato strap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## maccasvanquish

I just ordered a black dial version on rubber. I'm waiting for it to arrive. Whilst waiting...I've figured out what we should call it.

Ladies and gentleman...let me introduce you to......

The Citizen "Washington" it's got a classy sound to it. Aptly named for the way the hands resemble the Washington monument...the tallest Obelisk in the world commemorating the first president of the US...President George Washington.










Who's in agreement?

So anyways...looking forward to my new Citizen Washington to arrive.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## huwp

Nick-naming a Japanese dive watch after an unconnected American monument does NOT seem appropriate to me.

The hands aren't even the same shape as the monument - the monument does not have a spike at the top for a start. And there is no personal connection to the president, unlike say Colonel Pogue to the Pogue.


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## maccasvanquish

huwp said:


> Nick-naming a Japanese dive watch after an unconnected American monument does NOT seem appropriate to me.
> 
> The hands aren't even the same shape as the monument - the monument does not have a spike at the top for a start. And there is no personal connection to the president, unlike say Colonel Pogue to the Pogue.


Respectfully disagree. The Citizen Excalibur (a very widely accepted nickname) is named after king Arthur's sword....a 'British' king. Not Japanese. Plus, the Excaliburs hands don't look exactly like the sword...they just 'resemble' the sword...just like the Citizen Washington merely resembles the Washington monument.

Anyhoo. We'll let some others weigh in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## huwp

OK, firstly I appreciate the respectful disagreement! In the same spirit of respectful disagreement:

Excalibur isn't nick-named after a real person, nor even after a fictional person, but after a fictional person's fictional sword - but If I'm honest, I don't really feel that nick name either, it seems more of a "what is the first named sword that comes to mind" kind of thing rather than a nickname that has a true connection to the watch. Nothing against George Washington either, by all accounts he was a fine fellow.

The Washington monument was modelled after ancient Egyptian obelisks, so as an alternative suggestion how about nicknaming it the "Luxor" - after the multiple obelisks around the Luxor temple, resembling the ring of hour markers? Also a bit of a play on "luxury", i.e. the watch being a bit of a dress diver?


----------



## EpochClock

Cage match!
:-!


----------



## EpochClock

And fun fact: The Washington Monument was dedicated on *February 21*, 1885.


----------



## maccasvanquish

I picked up one of these on rubber. But I want to get a nice oyster for it. Not loving the oem bracelet. Looking for a nice strapcode with fitted endlinks that’ll fit? Perhaps an skx fitment? Anyone with a bn0190 and some bracelets they could try? Thanks in advance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mi6_

maccasvanquish said:


> I picked up one of these on rubber. But I want to get a nice oyster for it. Not loving the oem bracelet. Looking for a nice strapcode with fitted endlinks that'll fit? Perhaps an skx fitment? Anyone with a bn0190 and some bracelets they could try? Thanks in advance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I doubt there are much aftermarket bracelets that will fit except ones with straight end links. The curvature of the case and lug holes are different on about any watch.

Did you consider ordering the OEM Citizen bracelet? I've heard it's not too expensive. It has solid end links, solid links but a cheap looking stamped clasp. Probably your best bet to ensure a good fit.


----------



## maccasvanquish

mi6_ said:


> I doubt there are much aftermarket bracelets that will fit except ones with straight end links. The curvature of the case and lug holes are different on about any watch.
> 
> Did you consider ordering the OEM Citizen bracelet? I've heard it's not too expensive. It has solid end links, solid links but a cheap looking stamped clasp. Probably your best bet to ensure a good fit.


Yes, I understand that the fitment of endlinks are different for each watch...but sometimes cross fitment does work. The skx bracelets for example also for the scurfa silicone and the Casio mdv106. That's why I was wondering perhaps, if someone has a few bracelet equipped watches, they might be able to 'test' fit. Perhaps an Armida or the skx.

As far as the oem bracelet....I could go that route but I don't like the look of it. Too 'dressy' for me. I have a strapcode straight endlink oyster that I'll use until I can find some endlinks that fit.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## E8ArmyDiver

I'll bump as I just pulled the trigger on the Blue dial on bracelet...I've been wanting a solar diver a while and REALLY love the Seiko Titanium Solar Diver but too pricey for me.This will fill the slot nicely as I don't have anything Blue...


----------



## maccasvanquish

Mine finally arrived. Looks sooo much better in person..incredible quality! Very classy piece.

The rubber strap is also very incredible. So comfortable and amazing quality. Also, I love the packaging!




























I threw it on an oyster right away. Looks great.














































Usual citizen 'nuclear' blue lume.










The lume is so powerful....it tries to jump out of the case! (Trying to get a good lume shot and something funny happened! Lol)










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## E8ArmyDiver

Really nice piece for 2 Benjie's...Bracelet was a PIA to size,damn collars and pins,ughh...


----------



## topol2

E8ArmyDiver said:


> ...Bracelet was a PIA to size,damn collars and pins,ughh...


*AMEN TO THAT!
*


----------



## donnor09

I apologize if this has been answered somewhere in this (long) thread, but has anyone found an aftermarket bracelet that fits this watch? There are some great pictures of straight end links, but i didn't know if anyone had found curved end links that will fit.

Also, sorry if i'm using any incorrect terminology, i'm new to this watch stuff.


----------



## joseywales

I saw one of of these at a dealer today. I can't understand it. It's says 45mm, but I'm not buying that. 41-42mm is my sweet spot and this watch looked so damn good on me, I almost bought it. The only thing I can think of is that they count the shroud around the crown? I've been looking for a blue diver and this one off my list, due to the size. I realize watches can fit larger or small, but I just can't believe this is a 45mm case. I think I'd like them to list the bezel diameter.

Seeing watches in person is so important, but so hard to find. I have 3, yes 3, Certina blue divers inbound, just so I can see and try the different styles.. I'm selling off a different version of the Promaster. Another peeve of mine BYW. Just change the name, as the model evolves. Google Promaster and you'll see different versions. It's annoying. At least put the difference in the name, as opposed to model numbers. So, Promaster Advanced, Promaster II,something like that. Citizen isn't the only company with that issue. There are ate least 3 versions of the Certina DS, that look very different, based on year of make. 

Anyway, the Promaster has a quality look and feel to it and I like the shade of blue as well. If you're looking for a diver in this price range, it's worth a hard look and don't be scared off by the size on record.


----------



## Gearhead49r

Hi guys, I'm new to the site and new to the +$100 watch world , hence my reason for not having a signature and such. I did want to post on this watch though. My wife bought it for me for Christmas. It's my first nice watch. I love the watch. It's beautiful, and it fits my 7 inch wrist perfectly. It runs maybe a second off a day. After getting this diver, I had to pick up the highly favorable SKX007. While I like the SKX007, I think the Citizen has a little finer details than the seiko. My only complaint of the watch is the sheet metal clasp. I do believe I slightly bent the rolled sheet metal side of the clasp. I was kind of disappointed in seeing a rolled piece of sheetmetal holding the bracelet together on SEL bracelet. Why even bother with SELs? Anyhow, that is my only complaint. Maybe an easy fix is to just replace the clasp?


----------



## donnor09

joseywales said:


> Another peeve of mine BYW. Just change the name, as the model evolves. Google Promaster and you'll see different versions. It's annoying. At least put the difference in the name, as opposed to model numbers. So, Promaster Advanced, Promaster II,something like that. Citizen isn't the only company with that issue. There are ate least 3 versions of the Certina DS, that look very different, based on year of make.


as i've started to learn about watches, this has been one of the hardest things to deal with. Looking for specific information about this watch was tough (in part because it was new) because of it sharing the same name as all the previous models. And searching for model number didn't always work since folks start using nicknames...


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

joseywales said:


> I saw one of of these at a dealer today. I can't understand it. It's says 45mm, but I'm not buying that. 41-42mm is my sweet spot and this watch looked so damn good on me, I almost bought it. The only thing I can think of is that they count the shroud around the crown? I've been looking for a blue diver and this one off my list, due to the size. I realize watches can fit larger or small, but I just can't believe this is a 45mm case. I think I'd like them to list the bezel diameter.
> Anyway, the Promaster has a quality look and feel to it and I like the shade of blue as well. If you're looking for a diver in this price range, it's worth a hard look and don't be scared off by the size on record.


I agree,the measurement includes the crown protection..I would say lug to lug length is no more than 50mm.It sure wears like a 42mm watch...


----------



## mi6_

joseywales said:


> Another peeve of mine BYW. Just change the name, as the model evolves. Google Promaster and you'll see different versions. It's annoying. At least put the difference in the name, as opposed to model numbers. So, Promaster Advanced, Promaster II,something like that. Citizen isn't the only company with that issue. There are ate least 3 versions of the Certina DS, that look very different, based on year of make.


"Promaster" is a line of watches that Citizen has made since the mid 1980's. These are professional grade watches for marine activities, land exploration and aviation watches. It's the equivalent of the Seiko Prospex range of watches which also include land, sea and air related watches of a "professional specification".

Citizen does not typically name its watches. The names "Prime" (models BN0151) and "Excaliber" (BN0100) were given to their respective model names by the watch collecting community. The various Citizen Promaster models have come and gone over the years and the availability of models is different in almost every country across the globe.

Here's the official Citizen Promaster website: PROMASTER-Official Site [CITIZEN]


----------



## joseywales

Oh, to hell with it. Kohls has it on sale, plus 20% discount, plus $50 Kohls cash, plus I can pick it up at a local store. I have to give this watch a shot


----------



## maccasvanquish

joseywales said:


> Oh, to hell with it. Kohls has it on sale, plus 20% discount, plus $50 Kohls cash, plus I can pick it up at a local store. I have to give this watch a shot


I'm parting with mine. PM me if you're interested.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## maccasvanquish

If you are looking for the rubber strap...for those who’s came on a bracelet, check out the sales corner as I’m not using mine. Cheers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OCDetails

Has anyone gotten a crystal measurement yet by any chance? The only thing this watch needs is a nice domed AR sapphire on it. That's my first order of business. I've got the watch arriving this week and if I can get a sapphire on the way before it gets here, that is even better. Once I do get it, I'll pop the crystal out and give you all the measurement in case anyone else is like minded.


----------



## Robo414

maccasvanquish said:


> I threw it on an oyster right away. Looks great.


maccasvanquish - Can you share the brand/model of Oyster bracelet you stuck on there? (it looks great!) I am guessing it is just a straight-end 22mm (from the likes of Miltat).....but can't be sure from the photo. I don't imagine the SKX curved end-link version would fit??


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## ChuckMiller

Anyone have this bracelet they would sell to me?



mi6_ said:


> View attachment 11313954
> 
> 
> View attachment 11313938
> 
> View attachment 11313970


----------



## G_of_T

Awesome looking watch. I'll echo the fact that these watches are getting bigger and bigger. Watches ~40mm are the sweet spot for me.


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## Sugman

I've had one for a while...a short review WUS under the thread: Citizen Promaster BN0190. I really like the watch. Doesn't wear too big and easy to read.

Here are a couple of pics on straps...

BN0190 on a composite strap from EBay:









And on a Hirsch Mariner:


----------



## espiga

Good Day everyone,

Please, can anybody confirm if Citizen discontinued model BN0194-57E Two-tone from this series?
I can not find this model in the Citizen website now.

Thank you, very much.


----------



## espiga

Good Day,

heads-up for anybody looking for a BN0190-07E: Macys has it for $170.10.

Have a great day.


----------



## ChuckMiller

Anyone?


----------



## Adventures in Time

ChuckMiller said:


> Anyone have this bracelet they would sell to me?


Hey! This bracelet can be found here https://bands.hurleyrobertsservice....s-steel-part-59-s06965-with-band-to-case-pins. It comes with extra spring bars and shipping is free within the United States. The rubber strap is also on their site here: https://bands.hurleyrobertsservice....tizen-watch-strap-black-rubber-part-59-s53768 . There is another series of Citizen dive watches that can go from rubber to metal bracelet and has an expansion clasp and we talk about that on our thread here: https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/upgr...-divers-bracelet-expansion-clasp-4726325.html. Hope this helps!


----------



## ChuckMiller

THANK YOU!



Adventures in Time said:


> ChuckMiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have this bracelet they would sell to me?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! This bracelet can be found here https://bands.hurleyrobertsservice....s-steel-part-59-s06965-with-band-to-case-pins. It comes with extra spring bars and shipping is free within the United States. The rubber strap is also on their site here: https://bands.hurleyrobertsservice....tizen-watch-strap-black-rubber-part-59-s53768 . There is another series of Citizen dive watches that can go from rubber to metal bracelet and has an expansion clasp and we talk about that on our thread here: https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/upgr...-divers-bracelet-expansion-clasp-4726325.html. Hope this helps!
Click to expand...


----------



## mi6_

Two new variants of this diver have been released in the US. They can be found on the US Citizen Promaster website.

https://us.citizenwatch.com/us/en/promaster/

BN0198-56H









BN0195-54E









They both look great but I especially love the grey tone one.


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## raf1919

if price is right might have to grab one of these


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## SGIDurango

Since no one has come up with a name for this watch that has that people agree on, could I suggest "Katana"? Naming it after a famous Japanese sword makes at least as much sense as "Prime" and "Excalibur" do on other Citizens. 

From Wikipedia :

"The.katana.is generally defined as the standard sized, moderately curved (as opposed to the older.tachi.featuring more curvature) Japanese.sword.with a blade length greater than 60.cm (​23.1⁄2.inches)..It is characterized by its distinctive appearance: a curved, slender, single-edged blade with a circular or squared guard (tsuba) and long grip to accommodate two hands.

With a few exceptions,.katana.and.tachi.can be distinguished from each other, if signed, by the location of the signature.(mei).on the tang.(nakago). In general, the.mei.should be carved into the side of the.nakago.which would face outward when the sword was worn. Since a.tachi.was worn with the cutting edge down, and the.katana.was worn with the cutting edge up, the.mei.would be in opposite locations on the tang.

Western historians have said that.katana.were among the finest cutting weapons in world military history."

I think it is worth consideration...


----------



## image

mi6_ said:


> They both look great but I especially love the grey tone one.


Same here and it's definitely on my radar. I think that it's the gray bezel matching the dial. I'd love to see some actual photos of it. Unfortunately, I couldn't find one except a poor shot from an ebay auction.


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## tbgreen

Super cool watch!


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## Art_Riddle13

Definitely an underrated watch imo, definitely one of my favorites.

Although, I do seldom wear it because of my "needy" automatics.


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## Art_Riddle13

Where are my manners? Here is a picture as well. 

On a Blushark NATO.


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## rcorreale

Nice looking watch but a little too big for my tastes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Art_Riddle13

rcorreale said:


> Nice looking watch but a little too big for my tastes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Definitely understandable, it is a tank of a watch!


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## Tuco-g43

I just ordered one in all black with a bracelet. Do you think it will look to big on my 6.7 wrist?


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## ChuckMiller

I bought mine on rubber and I still haven't been able to buy the correct bracelet from Citizen or any vendor. Does anyone in this thread want to sell their factory bracelet?



mi6_ said:


> View attachment 11313954
> 
> 
> View attachment 11313938
> 
> View attachment 11313970


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## mi6_

Tuco-g43 said:


> I just ordered one in all black with a bracelet. Do you think it will look to big on my 6.7 wrist?


It wears smaller than it's 45mm size would suggest. The lug to lug is only about 48-49mm so should be OK.


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## matymarske

Hello everyone. 1st time poster but been reading the forums for a good few years and love how helpful everyone is. 

I'm really stuck trying to find any owner reviews/photos of the fairly newish promaster chronongraph CA0710-82L. Seen one in national jewellers chain but can get it third cheaper online.

Originally I was happy just with the Excalibur to compliment my SKA427 BFK work beater and one of the 2 chronongraphs in the shop window (see attached photo black or blue on sale items) for best/nights out but now I'm torn with the BN0190-07E on rubber (as heard bracelet clasp isn't the best) and this CA07010-83L as bracelet clasp is similar to the excellent one on the Excalibur. 

I'll be using it mainly as best watch out of work environment and would look for a blue alligator leather strap to use in rotation.

Sorry for the ramble but would love to know anyone's firsthand experiences with this watch as so hard to find any (perhaps as fairly new?). 

I've never had a watch with the running seconds on a subdial so would be a leap into unknown. The other 2 chronongraphs in the running for purchase are perpetual calendars with alarms but I don't like the added text on the dial and I wouldn't really use the alarm function. Thanks again.



Edit. Will post photos in 2nd post below as this is my first post. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk


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## matymarske

The blue and black watches have same caliber but I was erring on the blue with orange numbers but the blue isn't that vibrant in reality. The black one is quite generic. Both are 'exclusive' to the chain of jewellers but I think I'm talking myself away from them.









Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk


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## Deep Sea

Tuco-g43 said:


> I just ordered one in all black with a bracelet. Do you think it will look to big on my 6.7 wrist?


Definitely not. My son has been wearing one for six months, and has beat it to death. He's 12, so you can imagine the size of his wrist.


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## Robinoz

I just bought one of these models and I'm quite impressed. The watch case thickness is smaller than expected and the size is about right for my wrist thickness 7.5-8". It looks like the lumen will work well and it is dressy. I don't scuba dive, but I do snorkel and swim, so it will be nice to accompany me next year when I go to Bangkok.


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## Fernando_1968

[QUOTE = Robo414; 46123745] maccasvanquish - ¿Puedes compartir la marca / modelo de brazalete de ostras que pegaste allí? (¡se ve genial!) Supongo que es solo un extremo recto de 22 mm (de los gustos de Miltat) ..... pero no puedo estar seguro de la foto. No me imagino que la versión de enlace de extremo curvo de SKX encajaría ?? [/ QUOTE]


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## Thexplode7

uhmm has anyone tried fitting an oem oyster bracelet on this watch and any luck with the curve end link fitting. The bracelet on this thing isnt too my liking. The brush and polished on the links are driving me nuts.


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## luckyboy

my gosh this watch is so damn beautiful...love it!


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## BabyJoe

I prefer this design over the Excalibur, but I haven't been able to see one in the flesh. On pics the dial looks a bit 'cheap' shiny, gimmicky shiny to me (a bit like on bargain bin watches). Does it look better in reality?


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## Andy-S

Question to owners of these: I got a BN0190 on rubber from ebay on the 15% sale at a really good price as a "factory refurb". The watch looks really nice, but has a loose bezel. It moves and clicks if you push on it toward the case/crystal. See this vid I just recorded, and you might be able to see the gap and hear the clicking.

Can I assume that's not normal? I have another Citizen with a rotating bezel, and although I did have a problem when I got it where you could remove it with a fingernail pull and had to ship it to Citizen for repair, it's now tight with no play at all toward the case.

Is this something I can fix with a case back press or similar myself if it's not normal for these models?

I've messaged the seller last night, but haven't heard back yet. I like the watch otherwise, and it's in good condition (had a dead battery, but light got it started and it's running well now). Hard to see getting one of these for about $100 again, and the seller no longer has these in their store.


----------



## Ziptie

IIRC some models are meant to be easier to turn when you push the bezel towards the case. Unsure if this is one of those.


----------



## Andy-S

Ziptie said:


> IIRC some models are meant to be easier to turn when you push the bezel towards the case. Unsure if this is one of those.


I went to a store, and none of their various offerings of this base watch had this kind of vertical play. They had the black on bracelet and the stainless like mine, but on bracelet.

Found this vid that shows the same thing happening on the BN0150 model. The consensus in the comments is that it's not normal. Now I just need to know it it is possible to have it fixed, since mine's a refurb with no factory warranty.


----------



## SGIDurango

I have a BN0150 and a BN0191 and neither one has a loose bezel or any vertical play.


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## alitaher2009

Andy-S said:


> I went to a store, and none of their various offerings of this base watch had this kind of vertical play. They had the black on bracelet and the stainless like mine, but on bracelet.
> 
> Found this vid that shows the same thing happening on the BN0150 model. The consensus in the comments is that it's not normal. Now I just need to know it it is possible to have it fixed, since mine's a refurb with no factory warranty.


nice review


----------



## alitaher2009

Andy-S said:


> I went to a store, and none of their various offerings of this base watch had this kind of vertical play. They had the black on bracelet and the stainless like mine, but on bracelet.
> 
> Found this vid that shows the same thing happening on the BN0150 model. The consensus in the comments is that it's not normal. Now I just need to know it it is possible to have it fixed, since mine's a refurb with no factory warranty.


nice review


----------



## peewee102

SGIDurango said:


> I have a BN0150 and a BN0191 and neither one has a loose bezel or any vertical play.


My BN0191 doesn't have any vertical play or loose bezel either.


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## wandyhee

Yesterday I picked citizen automatic 100m from local shop at the price of usd162 approximate. Bring it home and noticed I'm not favoring automatic second hand movement. Today I'm visiting same shop again and asking if I can change it to another watch with eco-drive and they point me to bn0191 at he price usd278 with 3 years warranty. Couldn't be happier 









Sent from my vivo 1808 using Tapatalk


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## wandyhee

Some info of dimension/measurement weight in gram and dimension in mm. Much brighter thanbmy outgoing NH8381









Sent from my vivo 1808 using Tapatalk


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## wandyhee

Weight above is after I remove 2 links

Sent from my vivo 1808 using Tapatalk


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## wandyhee

Water drop on chrystal









Sent from my vivo 1808 using Tapatalk


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## Andy-S

Back again with another ebay deal on a not perfect variant. Bought the black plated BN0195 for $86+ shipping. Missing several bracelet pins and tubes.

Anybody have an online source of these? For future reference, the pin is 19mm x .9mm OD. The tubes are 3mm long with an OD of 1.2mm.

Will wear the watch on bands and NATO's I have around until I get the bracelet parts.


----------



## Andy-S

Emailed Citizen. Here are the bracelet pin part numbers for future reference to the thread. I know people have complain up thread about how easy the little tubes are to lose.



> The following are the part numbers and the costs of the parts that you need:
> 
> 509-C1003 C-ring without pin: Currently in stock for $2.30, plus tax and shipping.
> 
> 509-P1292 Pin withou C-ring: Currently in stock for $2.20, plus tax and shipping.
> 
> Please be advised that you will need one C-ring for each pin.
> 
> To order parts, such as links, bands, pins, etc., please call our Customer Care department directly at.(800) 321-1023, Monday through Friday, 9:00 am to 8:00 pm Eastern Time. We do not have online part ordering at this time.


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## moreland4

A great looking diver but it rarely gets any time on the wrist. Replaced bracelet with a BluShark AlphaShark nato. It's tighter than I would prefer between case and spring bars but it works. Don't have any curved spring bars to try out.


----------



## moreland4

Has anyone done a crystal swap yet?


----------



## moreland4

Fresh on the wrist today. BN0190-07E


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## ChuckMiller

What would you swap the crystal for?


----------



## ChuckMiller

Is sapphire now available?


----------



## Andy-S

Added the BN0198-56H to my collection. Bought it used off of ebay for cheap, but it was sized at maybe 6.5", and didn't come with extra links. Has a small bump on the case where it meets my wrist on the side opposite the crown that wasn't shown in the ad. Still think it's a good buy at $81 shipped, because the rest of the watch is great.

Trying to decide if I care much about the bracelet. I emailed Citizen about an extra couple of links, but does anybody know what they run? I see new bracelets from Hurley Roberts are $87.

Or, if anybody wants to deal on a couple of links... 

This watch in the gray looks great. Really like the bezel being that gunmetal color. Seems to be very versatile with straps and bands. Gray perlon for reference:









With another member of the family:


----------



## mi6_

Andy-S said:


> View attachment 14343107


That grey looks awesome. If only it wasn't a 45mm I'd get it. Just a bit too big for my 6.5" wrist.


----------



## Andy-S

mi6_ said:


> That grey looks awesome. If only it wasn't a 45mm I'd get it. Just a bit too big for my 6.5" wrist.


Strangely this one's bracelet is sized for a 6.5" wrist from ebay.


----------



## Andy-S

For future thread readers that may have a similar problem, the stainless links from Citizen for these bracelets have a part number of LK-S06965, and you can get them from Citizen US for $12.50 plus tax/shipping. Links include the pins and collars. Here's the email I received from my inquiry:



> Thank you for your email. The links for your watch are currently in stock, the part number is LK-S06965 and the price is $12.50 per link plus shipping and tax. The links do come with pins to attach to the rest of the band.
> 
> As we do not have online part ordering, if you are located in the United States, to order parts such as links, bands, pins etc., please contact our Customer Service department directly at (800) 321-1023 or (310) 532-8463, Monday through Friday, 7:00am to 5:00pm Pacific Time.
> 
> If you are located outside the United States, please visit http://www.citizenwatch-global.com/network/index.html for a listing of Authorized Service Centers.
> 
> I hope this was helpful and thank you for relying on Citizen Watch for your consumer needs!


----------



## mi6_

Andy-S said:


> Strangely this one's bracelet is sized for a 6.5" wrist from ebay.


Yup. I've tried on the sister model to this. The lug to lug length of about 48/49mm is not too bad but it's still 45mm so it wears big. I definitely could wear it on my 6.5" wrist but it's pushing my comfort zone.

Anyhow enjoy the new piece. Glad to see your were able to source the links. My experience so far with Citizen has been excellent for sourcing parts/service.


----------



## KingKen

Does anyone know the exact dimensions of the watch crystal? Might get this watch if I'm able to do a swap.


----------



## 356746

I need a new pair of spring bars for my watch, for the bracelet. The old ones are stuck in the BC strap and I can't measure them. Do you know how thick they are? It's 1.8 or 2.0 mm?


----------



## ChuckMiller

Sorry, I dont know, and I don't have a caliper to measure with.


----------



## Neomentat

The blue face looks nice. But it doesn't look significantly different from previous releases of this model.


----------



## 356746

356746 said:


> I need a new pair of spring bars for my watch, for the bracelet. The old ones are stuck in the BC strap and I can't measure them. Do you know how thick they are? It's 1.8 or 2.0 mm?


anyone?


----------



## mi6_

*Citizen BN0198-56H grey dial Eco-Drive Promaster Diver*

Ok I've been eyeing these Citizen Divers for the past 2 years since starting this thread. Lusting after this watch and it's many delectable variants (Yes, I suffer from a watch collecting illness like many of you). The fall of 2018 saw the release of the grey dial variant, BN0198-56H. This has been my favourite version of this model. I've owned a Citizen Excalibur (BN0100-51E) and Citizen Prime (BN0151-09L) for the past 3-4 years and love them both. Puts a smile on my face every time I wear them. Great build quality, reliable, accurate, solid long lasting lume and both have great milled clasps with a ratcheting dive extension. Bought a Promaster Tough (BN0211-51E) recently but it came with some misalignment of the hour markers so I sent it in to have the dial replaced under warranty at the Canadian Service Center. It's a big watch for 42mm but wears ok despite the 51mm lug to lug length due to the curvature of the lugs and h-link bracelet. It's probably too big for me but I like it too much to really care what others think. I don't know what it is but I just LOVE Citizen Promaster watches.

I'll digress a bit, but I'm "burdened" with a small 6.5" wrist. Over the last 2 years I've been on an automatic watch kick buying many smaller watches like the Orient Mako USA II, Seiko SARB035 and 035, Seiko SKX013, Seiko SNK809 and Seiko SRPC39 mini-turtle. They're all great watches with a short lug to lug making them perfect on a small wrist. But as nice as they are, they're all automatics. I personally find solar quartz my favourite type of watch to wear. I stress out wearing my automatics worrying about inaccuracy, banging them up, damaging them and service costs down the road. I like the grab and go convenience of quartz versus having to set and wind up an automatic watch ever time I want to wear it.

So last week I ordered a BN0198-56H from an authorized dealer for 40% off (paid $297 CAD down from the MSRP of $495 CAD). I've tried on strap versions of this watch in the past and thought it was OK. 2 years ago I'd have worn this and not given it a second thought about the size. Lug to lug is 48mm and the overall width at the bezel is 44mm. It's big but I wears decent for an advertised 45mm watch. The lume on the hour markers and bezel is good and an even application, but the hour and minute hands look weaker in person and there is a visible line down the Center of each hand from the thin lume application. My Promaster Tough had the same problem wth the hands. In fairness, it likely lasts a long time and doesn't really affect legibility but it's dissapointing. I don't know if I lucked out on my Citizen Excaliber and Citizen Prime but the lume is excellent on both of these (evenly applied, bright and long lasting). Seems like Citizen Promaster lume is not as good as it was a few years ago.

Anyhow....I love the look of this watch. Grey dial and bezel looks amazing in person. BUT....can my 6.5" wrist handle this piece? I'm 50/50 on keeping it. Might mean flipping some smaller autos if I do. (Excuse the protective plastic on the watch. Need to keep it on if I'm returning it.)























It's tough to get a good photo, but the bezel pip and hour markers have a good even lume application (NOT Seiko level Lumibrite, but good enough). The hands definitely have a thinner application and there is a black streak visible to the naked eye down the hour and minute hands. Not a deal breaker but it does bug my OCD. So close to being perfect.


----------



## mi6_

I would agree with the measurements for the BN019X series that have been previously posted:

Lug to Lug length (wingspan): 48.5mm








Case width including crown: 47mm








Bezel width: 44.5mm








Case thickness: 12mm


----------



## mi6_

And finally a comparison shot of three Citizen Promaster Eco-Drive divers:

On the left the 44mm Citizen "Prime" BN0151-09L currently on its factory resin strap (taking a break from the excellent Promaster bracelet). In the middle the 44.5mm "unnamed" Promaster BN0198-56H. And on the right the 41mm Citizen "Excalibur" BN0100-51E. Interestingly the Excalibur has the longest lug to lug length (49mm) despite being smaller than either the BN0151-09L (48.5mm lug to lug) and BN0198-56H (48.5mm).









OBLIGATORY LUME SHOT! The BN0151-09L is the clear winner. Thick markers and hands with nice evenly applied lume. The Citizen BN0100-51E is a close second. It's a good even lume application but it has to make do with thinner hour markers and hands. The BN0198-56H has well done hour markers but the hands have a thinner applied lume coating than the markers got (doesn't show in photos). Also notice how the bezel lume pip has become much smaller than the Prime and Excalibur? WTF Citizen??? Really saving some money skimping in the lume department, eh? :-d


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## 356746

356746 said:


> I need a new pair of spring bars for my watch, for the bracelet. The old ones are stuck in the BC strap and I can't measure them. Do you know how thick they are? It's 1.8 or 2.0 mm?


the answer is: 2.0 mm


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## 356746

upload image


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## jaturungkabart

mi6_ said:


> Ok I've been eyeing these Citizen Divers for the past 2 years since starting this thread. Lusting after this watch and it's many delectable variants (Yes, I suffer from a watch collecting illness like many of you). The fall of 2018 saw the release of the grey dial variant, BN0198-56H. This has been my favourite version of this model. I've owned a Citizen Excalibur (BN0100-51E) and Citizen Prime (BN0151-09L) for the past 3-4 years and love them both. Puts a smile on my face every time I wear them. Great build quality, reliable, accurate, solid long lasting lume and both have great milled clasps with a ratcheting dive extension. Bought a Promaster Tough (BN0211-51E) recently but it came with some misalignment of the hour markers so I sent it in to have the dial replaced under warranty at the Canadian Service Center. It's a big watch for 42mm but wears ok despite the 51mm lug to lug length due to the curvature of the lugs and h-link bracelet. It's probably too big for me but I like it too much to really care what others think. I don't know what it is but I just LOVE Citizen Promaster watches.
> 
> I'll digress a bit, but I'm "burdened" with a small 6.5" wrist. Over the last 2 years I've been on an automatic watch kick buying many smaller watches like the Orient Mako USA II, Seiko SARB035 and 035, Seiko SKX013, Seiko SNK809 and Seiko SRPC39 mini-turtle. They're all great watches with a short lug to lug making them perfect on a small wrist. But as nice as they are, they're all automatics. I personally find solar quartz my favourite type of watch to wear. I stress out wearing my automatics worrying about inaccuracy, banging them up, damaging them and service costs down the road. I like the grab and go convenience of quartz versus having to set and wind up an automatic watch ever time I want to wear it.
> 
> So last week I ordered a BN0198-56H from an authorized dealer for 40% off (paid $297 CAD down from the MSRP of $495 CAD). I've tried on strap versions of this watch in the past and thought it was OK. 2 years ago I'd have worn this and not given it a second thought about the size. Lug to lug is 48mm and the overall width at the bezel is 44mm. It's big but I wears decent for an advertised 45mm watch. The lume on the hour markers and bezel is good and an even application, but the hour and minute hands look weaker in person and there is a visible line down the Center of each hand from the thin lume application. My Promaster Tough had the same problem wth the hands. In fairness, it likely lasts a long time and doesn't really affect legibility but it's dissapointing. I don't know if I lucked out on my Citizen Excaliber and Citizen Prime but the lume is excellent on both of these (evenly applied, bright and long lasting). Seems like Citizen Promaster lume is not as good as it was a few years ago.
> 
> Anyhow....I love the look of this watch. Grey dial and bezel looks amazing in person. BUT....can my 6.5" wrist handle this piece? I'm 50/50 on keeping it. Might mean flipping some smaller autos if I do. (Excuse the protective plastic on the watch. Need to keep it on if I'm returning it.)
> 
> View attachment 14573691
> 
> View attachment 14573693
> 
> View attachment 14573695
> 
> 
> It's tough to get a good photo, but the bezel pip and hour markers have a good even lume application (NOT Seiko level Lumibrite, but good enough). The hands definitely have a thinner application and there is a black streak visible to the naked eye down the hour and minute hands. Not a deal breaker but it does bug my OCD. So close to being perfect.
> 
> View attachment 14573697


that's also my concerning. my wrist isn't big. always had my eyes on bn019x and l own prime and excalibur too but they wear great.
yep l know l have bigger gshocks but they're leaving soon too.
skx013 would be perfect it wasn't auto. solar is the deal for me. l just put them outdoors to recharge every weekend for a couple hours


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## mi6_

jaturungkabart said:


> that's also my concerning. my wrist isn't big. always had my eyes on bn019x and l own prime and excalibur too but they wear great.
> yep l know l have bigger gshocks but they're leaving soon too.
> skx013 would be perfect it wasn't auto. solar is the deal for me. l just put them outdoors to recharge every weekend for a couple hours


I'm honestly kicking myself for returning the BN0198-56H. While I wish it were sized somewhat smaller it wore OK and was a good value for the money. That grey dial and bezel are so nice. I'm actually contemplating selling my SKX013 and SARB035 to make room for some Citizen Promasters. My interests in automatics is dwindling these days as well.


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## Meatshield the Yeti

Man, I just wish some of these had sapphire crystals for those of us who are insanely clumsy.


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## jaturungkabart

mi6_ said:


> I would agree with the measurements for the BN019X series that have been previously posted:
> 
> Lug to Lug length (wingspan): 48.5mm
> View attachment 14573793
> 
> 
> Case width including crown: 47mm
> View attachment 14573797
> 
> 
> Bezel width: 44.5mm
> View attachment 14573799
> 
> 
> Case thickness: 12mm
> View attachment 14573837


 your post is making me buy a skyhawk jy0000 (watch l've been looking for years)
the measurements are almost the same:
50mm (lug to lug)
bezel w/ crown 48mm
bezel w/o crown 45mm
source: https://www.watchuseek.com/f909/review-citizen-skyhawk-jy0000-53e-518275.html
what you think


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## Andy-S

jaturungkabart said:


> your post is making me buy a skyhawk jy0000 (watch l've been looking for years)
> the measurements are almost the same:
> 49mm (lug to lug)
> bezel w/ crown 48mm
> bezel w/o crown 45mm
> source: https://www.watchuseek.com/f909/review-citizen-skyhawk-jy0000-53e-518275.html
> what you think


I have a JY8035-04E black Skyhawk A-T along with BN00191 and BN0195's. The Skyhawk feels like a different size class entirely.


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## cbob1912

Andy-S said:


> I have a JY8035-04E black Skyhawk A-T along with BN00191 and BN0195's. The Skyhawk feels like a different size class entirely.


What kind of nato strap is that? Looks great!


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## Andy-S

cbob1912 said:


> What kind of nato strap is that? Looks great!


A $3 24mm cheapie from Ali Express. That watch has the dumb 23mm lugs.


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## jaturungkabart

Andy-S said:


> I have a JY8035-04E black Skyhawk A-T along with BN00191 and BN0195's. The Skyhawk feels like a different size class entirely.
> 
> View attachment 14632171


8035 is beautiful too but it has an 'infinity display' (like nighthawk which l had one) l just can't afford 8035 here but its black color makes it wear smaller compared to the standard steel color right
l say that because l have a black gsteel which l wear so much compared to the ss versions
next year l'll keep the black gsteel only


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## norsairius

I had the blue version of this watch and ended up selling it but seeing pics of the grey one with the matching bezel has me really wanting one again!

I also have small wrists (6.5”, maybe even less!) but I’ve given up on finding watches more appropriately sized all the time. There’s just too many watches I like that have larger dials/cases. I’ll always keep more reasonably sized watches for more formal situations, but as long as the lug to lug is below 50mm, I’m thinking I’ll tolerate the larger cases and dials. 

Heck, I picked up the newer Skyhawk when I found out the lug to lug was just under 50mm but the case is a relatively massive 46mm in diameter. 

I say go for it if you like it, even if you have small wrists! Most people ultimately don’t care what watch you’re wearing except other watch fanatics anyway. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mi6_

norsairius said:


> I had the blue version of this watch and ended up selling it but seeing pics of the grey one with the matching bezel has me really wanting one again!
> 
> I also have small wrists (6.5", maybe even less!) but I've given up on finding watches more appropriately sized all the time. There's just too many watches I like that have larger dials/cases. I'll always keep more reasonably sized watches for more formal situations, but as long as the lug to lug is below 50mm, I'm thinking I'll tolerate the larger cases and dials.
> 
> Heck, I picked up the newer Skyhawk when I found out the lug to lug was just under 50mm but the case is a relatively massive 46mm in diameter.
> 
> I say go for it if you like it, even if you have small wrists! Most people ultimately don't care what watch you're wearing except other watch fanatics anyway.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I returned the BN0198-56H for the second time. Yes, I could wear it but it was a bit big (or at least I thought so). It's a beautiful watch though. Looks amazing in person. Photos don't do it justice. A year or two ago I'd have worn it without a second thought.

I also got rid of my Citizen BN0211-50E Promaster Tough. It's 42mm but the lug to lug is 51mm. It was just too big and uncomfortable for me. It's a shame as I really love Citizen watches. They are the perfect balance of value and quality (my opinion only), but everything they make is so massive. So many of their diver and pilot watches are between 44-46mm. If they start doing more 40mm or smaller stuff I'll buy more. I just bought the UK's Citizen Promaster Tough (BN0118-55E) and at 40mm it's such a great size for almost every wrist. It's the ultimate Citizen. Sapphire, super titanium case & bracelet, ratcheting clasp and amazing lume.

I have been wearing so many 37-40mm watches lately I don't think I can do a 45mm watch anymore.


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## norsairius

mi6_ said:


> Well I returned the BN0198-56H for the second time. Yes, I could wear it but it was a bit big (or at least I thought so). It's a beautiful watch though. Looks amazing in person. Photos don't do it justice. A year or two ago I'd have worn it without a second thought.
> 
> I also got rid of my Citizen BN0211-50E Promaster Tough. It's 42mm but the lug to lug is 51mm. It was just too big and uncomfortable for me. It's a shame as I really love Citizen watches. They are the perfect balance of value and quality (my opinion only), but everything they make is so massive. So many of their diver and pilot watches are between 44-46mm. If they start doing more 40mm or smaller stuff I'll buy more. I just bought the UK's Citizen Promaster Tough (BN0118-55E) and at 40mm it's such a great size for almost every wrist. It's the ultimate Citizen. Sapphire, super titanium case & bracelet, ratcheting clasp and amazing lume.
> 
> I have been wearing so many 37-40mm watches lately I don't think I can do a 45mm watch anymore.


Ah, fair enough. I hear ya. I had a period of time where I stuck to watches that were more reasonably sized and it was great! The Skyhawk broke my streak though, I couldn't resist the overly complex dial and the tech in it. Not for everyone, I know, but I like complex dials. The analog/digital dial also has a "cool factor" to me.

The Skyhawk seems to at least has proportions that are more square and the lugs curve down more which makes it more bearable (to me at least), but when it comes to this diver, your comments on it reminded me that the proportions on it made it seem a bit long and flat which made it feel/sit particularly odd on my wrist. That's probably why I ultimately got rid of it too. I may need to stop by a store or something and try it again before I get one if I really feel tempted.


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## eddiefirestone

It really looks good. Give it a little time to see if it is a good fit for you


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## irco

Is it true that Citizen BN0190 it is an official tool of the Royal Marins of the Royal Navy?


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## irco

> A citizen eco drive (one of these TWO CHOICES) a one for one replacement for the previous model as they become unserviceable. Issued to divers Royal Navy, Royal Engineers and Royal Logistics Corps, dive supervisors of all services, RN ships swimmers and boat operators of the Army. Royal Marines/Reconnaissance Leaders and UKSF continue to use the CWC SBS model.
> My son, a recce troop small boat operator with a specialist infantry battalion has just been issued one, I'll post some images when he is next home.
> 
> http://www.citizenwatch.com/en-uk/wa...del=BN0150-28E
> 
> http://www.citizenwatch.com/en-uk/wa...del=BN0190-07E


https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?81271-The-new-RN-and-British-Army-Diver-watch-is


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## jaturungkabart

mi6_ said:


> Well I returned the BN0198-56H for the second time. Yes, I could wear it but it was a bit big (or at least I thought so). It's a beautiful watch though. Looks amazing in person. Photos don't do it justice. A year or two ago I'd have worn it without a second thought.
> 
> I also got rid of my Citizen BN0211-50E Promaster Tough. It's 42mm but the lug to lug is 51mm. It was just too big and uncomfortable for me. It's a shame as I really love Citizen watches. They are the perfect balance of value and quality (my opinion only), but everything they make is so massive. So many of their diver and pilot watches are between 44-46mm. If they start doing more 40mm or smaller stuff I'll buy more. I just bought the UK's Citizen Promaster Tough (BN0118-55E) and at 40mm it's such a great size for almost every wrist. It's the ultimate Citizen. Sapphire, super titanium case & bracelet, ratcheting clasp and amazing lume.
> 
> I have been wearing so many 37-40mm watches lately I don't think I can do a 45mm watch anymore.










l'm in the same minimalistic phase too

this one is coming to my mail box







l just love those bracelets, they were extinct from watches nowadays. l've found it in tagheuer link only. but l can't afford tagh
some say because l'm 6'3'' l should wear big accessories but l kinda disagree because l don't have dwayne johnson's arms


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## cirian75

Just got a 2nd hand BN0190 off eBay

Came on a NATO, original strap no included, I knew this.


The spring bars seem to be a little crap

I thought a diver would have slightly chunkier spring bars



Suggestions?


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## Andy-S

cirian75 said:


> Just got a 2nd hand BN0190 off eBay
> 
> Came on a NATO, original strap no included, I knew this.
> 
> The spring bars seem to be a little crap
> 
> I thought a diver would have slightly chunkier spring bars
> 
> Suggestions?


Somebody probably changed them. I generally keep the stock springbars with the stock band/bracelet, then put a thinner one on that gives space for thicker style NATO's if that's what I plan to do.


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## 356746

Andy-S said:


> Somebody probably changed them.


The springbars that come with the bracelet are thick.


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## maccasvanquish

Hey guys, If you want to part with yours, I just posted in the WTB. Check it out. Thanks in advance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cirian75

I ordered some 22mm 2.0mm fatty spring bars off Amazon

And was sent some mediumish 20mm, while double checking the size against know 22mm skinny spring bars, I found a bag of shouldered after market 22mm proper 2mm seiko diver fatties = sorted

I must have bought them when I had my SKX


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## DrGoode




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## CLP

Sorry to bring this back up but I have a legit question and it would take forever to skim through this topic to see if it's been answered already.

I have a BN0198 on order and want to find out if the clasp is 20mm? 

I'd like to order a proper milled clasp and see a few options available but want to make sure it will fit properly first.

Thanks in advance.


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## Sugman

maccasvanquish said:


> Hey guys, If you want to part with yours, I just posted in the WTB. Check it out. Thanks in advance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have a BN0198. Message me if interested.


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## CLP

So the watch has arrived in good order and I'm loving it.

I still need to resize the bracelet and have ordered the milled clasp for it as well, waiting on a proper pin-pusher that I ordered to resize the pin and collars properly, so in the meantime I'm putting it on an accent rubber and bond NATO that I already have.


















These both go with this watch better than I thought they would, so this begs the question, has anyone ever bought a watch, not just because it spoke to you, but also because you already had straps that you knew would pair well with it?


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## Andy-S

CLP said:


> I still need to resize the bracelet and have ordered the milled clasp for it as well, waiting on a proper pin-pusher that I ordered to resize the pin and collars properly, so in the meantime I'm putting it on an accent rubber and bond NATO that I already have.


Which milled clasp did you buy?

Here's a single pass stretch NATO I like on mine when it's off the bracelet:










Also looks nice on a perlon.


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## ChuckMiller

You'll like that watch. I enjoyed mine. I let it go only because when I decided to thin the heard I had other quartz and other divers to wear.


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## CLP

Andy-S said:


> Which milled clasp did you buy?


Unbranded off Ali-Express.

















I'm hoping I can transplant the mechanism onto the signed Citizen, as they are roughly the same, thereby replacing the stamped clasp, but if it doesn't fit then I'll just swap them out entirely.


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## Andy-S

Thanks. Definitely update us. I've looked at the ones with dive adjustments but never ordered one. They're kind of long, while the one you ordered is closer to stock.


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## CLP

And who really needs a dive adjustment when I'm never going to put it on a wetsuit. If I did I would take the rubber or NATO anyways.

I've also never understood why 6 micro-adjust holes would be needed when 3 will suffice, especially if you have half links as well.

Will update for sure.


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## Andy-S

CLP said:


> And who really needs a dive adjustment when I'm never going to put it on a wetsuit. If I did I would take the rubber or NATO anyways.
> 
> I've also never understood why 6 micro-adjust holes would be needed when 3 will suffice, especially if you have half links as well.
> 
> Will update for sure.


I adjust my watches occasionally on the quick adjust pins based on weather. If it's hot, I want my watch a little looser and the wrist probably swells a bit.

I don't need a ton of adjustments, but it's nice to be able to make it fit slightly better on the fly.

As for how many quick adjust holes, that depends on how big the links are. The smaller the links, the less holes I need  The distance the holes allow adjustment probably from the tightest to the loosest should probably slightly exceed the size of a link. As long as you don't expand the clasp to the point where you reduce comfort by taking away too much flex.


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## CLP

I understand about the quick adjust which is why everyone loves the oysters so much. 

I have lucked out with most of my bracelets having a good fit, slightly loose to perfect when the wrist swells, the best of which coincidentally is a Citizen, AT-4004 that has no micro-adjust and I did not need the half links and fits like a glove at 5-a-side. Got lucky I guess.

Also have an Orient Mako USA II that is only slightly big at times, I may order a second clasp of the above if it works well as the machined part may be slightly thicker than the stock one to make up the difference.

Other than that bracelet not tapering from 22 to 18 I don't have any issues with it, I even polished the center links with Cape Cod for sh1ts and giggles.

I seem to have more issues with straps than I do bracelets, bought a 2mm punch as I always seem to be in-between holes.

Wish they would make them closer together but I guess you need to go bespoke for that privilege.


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## CLP

Update: put the clasp on the bracelet, took 2 links off each side, fits great!























I tried to just swap the folding mechanism into the Citizen shell, but it was a no go because the pins are different thickness, c'est la vie.

First experience with pin and collar. Got the pin removal tool because I knew beforehand I would need it. Dropped a collar on the floor twice but managed not to lose it.

Where I ran into trouble was figuring out, after trying MANY times unsuccessfully to wedge it back in the outside hole, that the collar on these does not go back into the outside hole, but into the hole in the CENTER link, and then pushed through into the outside link when the pin goes back in.

Still great to be able to figure out how to do this stuff on my own without having to take it to a jeweller/watchsmith.


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## Andy-S

Nice. Pin and collar is so annoying. I had to have a set made for a BN0195 that I bought refurbed with the links in a bag. I dropped one, but like you was lucky to find it.

Exceeded in pain only by the little conductor springs in G-Shocks. I was doing a positive display mod last week and lost one of those that shot into the ether.

Good news on the clasp. I'll probably order one myself.


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## neogenesus

Anybody know where to buy a replacement bezel for Citizen BN0190 regular black model? I gave mine to my dad and one day he fell down. The watch hit the ground and the bezel insert moved 1.5 ticks and the lume dot also missing on the insert. Is the insert a friction type or glued to the bezel?
Here is my collection of Citizen Promaster so far (all black version is coming soon):


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## mi6_

Did you try contact a Citizen Service center? I’m guessing they won’t sell parts, but it’s worth a shot. If you mailed them the watch I’m sure they’d replace the bezel/insert for a fee.


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## GregB

Resurrecting this oldish thread. I’ve been on the diver merry-go-round and have sold a sub and Omega 300 as I didn’t want to wear something that pricey and flipped four Seikos. 

Stumbled upon the BN0191 at Kohls, blue one with the orange second-hand, tried it on, and I’m very tempted to give it a try.

Channels the Omega vibe, looks a lot more handsome than the Seiko offerings (IMHO), and at the right price is no concern to wear anywhere under any conditions. If I’m patient I should be able to get one for 35-45% off from Kohls. My plan is to wait for at least a 30% off coupon and see at that time if the watch still calls to me.

Of those who picked one up earlier in this thread, still have it? Still part of your rotation?


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## Andy-S

GregB said:


> Resurrecting this oldish thread. I’ve been on the diver merry-go-round and have sold a sub and Omega 300 as I didn’t want to wear something that pricey and flipped four Seikos.
> 
> Stumbled upon the BN0191 at Kohls, blue one with the orange second-hand, tried it on, and I’m very tempted to give it a try.
> 
> Channels the Omega vibe, looks a lot more handsome than the Seiko offerings (IMHO), and at the right price is no concern to wear anywhere under any conditions. If I’m patient I should be able to get one for 35-45% off from Kohls. My plan is to wait for at least a 30% off coupon and see at that time if the watch still calls to me.
> 
> Of those who picked one up earlier in this thread, still have it? Still part of your rotation?


I've got both the gray (BN0198) and the black PVD model (BN0195), and wear them allt the time.

If you're not set on brand new and don't care if you get the fancy dive box/dive tank that Citizen ships them with, I've had good luck buying refurb from this ebay seller. Currently $135 with 10% off and free shipping. Unworn.

I prefer my BN0151 a bit to the BN019X models, but the BN019X's are a bit more dressy if that's what you like.


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## parv

GregB said:


> Resurrecting this oldish thread
> ...
> Of those who picked one up earlier in this thread, still have it? Still part of your rotation?


I have the grey dial version in BN0198-56H (USA), including BN7110-89E (Japan) & CA0265-59E (USA). I mostly wear the grey & BN7110 on alternate days (both on Borealis rubber strap).

I have been waiting for the price to drop to ~US$ 230 (or below ;-) so that I could buy the blue dial version (new); certainly would not mind if Citizen were to introduce a red dial version before that. I would love to wear watches in BN019x series on the bracelet if the bracelet of CA0710 watch could be used instead(?).

Once in a while I break out Garmin Instinct. CA0265 (integrated bracelet with only micro adjust💩) has been collecting dust along with Casio GWM850.


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## GregB

Thank you both.

I believe I would prefer a dressier vibe. My first diver was a SKX007 bought over 20 years ago. At the time, it was THE starter automatic diver (based on information I had). To me, it looked like it was trying to be somewhat dressy, especially on the stock Jubilee bracelet, but the design failed in this regard. I never liked the height and look of the bezel and this is true for me on the 3 (yes, 3) of the new Seiko 5 divers I’ve had. Started with the blue and flipped it. Then got the black with the white chapter ring - was cool, but looked small and returned it. Got the idea to just go all-tool and tried the Macy’s LE - basic black on a rubber strap. Not a thing wrong with it - perfect sample and everything. Basically to wear like an analog G-Shock. Returned it. I also had a Casio Duro in the midst of all this for a short time.

So maybe diver’s are not for me. But I was smitten when I tried on the BN0151. It felt like it overcame the issues I didn’t even realize I was having with the a Seikos. I could wear it for any and all hard duty and keep it on just fine for a nice dinner date and live jazz. With the Seikos or Duro I would’ve been uncomfortable wearing it out for a night on the town. While it wouldn’t be my fist choice for these outings, and I have other watches, the versatility with the Omega-esqe design language really speaks to me. And the blue face with the orange second hand is just perfect. I’ve had my eye in the BN0151 but not pulled the trigger - too aggressive/toolish for anything but beater wear (for me).

Andy - the e-bay seller looks awesome. At $139 and then 10% off of that with free 4-day shipping I’m about to pull the trigger. Even does free returns and it should be easy to flip locally with no loss later if needed.


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## GregB

Bought. I have been nervous buying off of eBay, but the seller has 100% positive ratings and has sold over 800 of this watch ::faints::. And at the price it’s irresistible.


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## sky21

GregB said:


> Bought. I have been nervous buying off of eBay, but the seller has 100% positive ratings and has sold over 800 of this watch ::faints::. And at the price it’s irresistible.


Great purchase, many of us have purchased Citizen watches from this seller and you won’t be disappointed. Enjoy your new watch, and remember to come back and post lots of photos.


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## GregB

Thank you!!! I love this community!!! 🤸‍♀️ ⏱


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## Andy-S

GregB said:


> Bought. I have been nervous buying off of eBay, but the seller has 100% positive ratings and has sold over 800 of this watch ::faints::. And at the price it’s irresistible.


Glad to help. Hope you love it. The seller has always gotten good reviews on another watch deal forum I participate in. 

Report back your thoughts!


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## GregB

A bit off-topic, but because I reported flipping/returning so many Seikos I wanted to add that I have one of the new Seiko 5 field watches that I wear and prefer to my Hamilton Khaki auto, and I have a SBP121 (new version of the green SARB17) that is my most-worn watch. And a Seiko solar SNE039 that gets worn when I want a basic fly-under-the-radar watch. So lots of love for Seiko here. 

And, in context of that collection (that also includes a few G-Shocks), the new Citizen classy blue diver could be a perfect complement. Then maybe add a cream dialed dressy piece with sub seconds or a small rectangle watch (reverso or similar) to complete the collection.


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## GregB

It arrived today! Fast service and the watch looks and feels perfect.

Lost one collar resizing the bracelet. The deal on the collars is that there is one per link and it goes in the center part away from where the arrow tip is. If I had known this rather than trying to put it in one of the side sections of the link, I might not have lost it. I ended up removing for links total, so I ended up with plenty of collars and spare parts anyway.

For some reason, the form isn’t letting me post a picture. All the icons that do fancy things are grayed. Thoughts anyone?
The watch and band just seem to disappear on my wrist. That’s always a great first experience when I put the watch on and next thing I know I’m doing dishes or laundry or running around working and the watch just doesn’t call attention because the bracelet is cutting into my wrist, the watch is flopping around or anything else.

The second hand was skipping every two seconds, which is just the low battery warning for an Eco Drive. I’ve been outside now for less than 10 minutes and it’s already going one tick per second now.

UPDATE: Found the collar!!! Used one of my Fenix flashlights and dialed it to spot mode. Saw a glint of silver between two floorboards and it was the collar.


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## Andy-S

GregB said:


> It arrived today! Fast service and the watch looks and feels perfect.
> 
> Lost one collar resizing the bracelet. The deal on the collars is that there is one per link and it goes in the center part away from where the arrow tip is. If I had known this rather than trying to put it in one of the side sections of the link, I might not have lost it. I ended up removing for links total, so I ended up with plenty of collars and spare parts anyway.
> 
> For some reason, the form isn’t letting me post a picture. All the icons that do fancy things are grayed. Thoughts anyone?
> The watch and band just seem to disappear on my wrist. That’s always a great first experience when I put the watch on and next thing I know I’m doing dishes or laundry or running around working and the watch just doesn’t call attention because the bracelet is cutting into my wrist, the watch is flopping around or anything else.
> 
> The second hand was skipping every two seconds, which is just the low battery warning for an Echo Drive. I’ve been outside now for less than 10 minutes and it’s already going one tick per second now.


Glad it sounds like it worked out for you.

The pin and collar things suck. I've definitely lost them myself, even knowing it's a risk.

Uploading pics works for me. See my "Coke Zero Diver?" On PC, I just drag into the gray box.










Or my BN0198 on a stretch single pass NATO instead of the bracelet?


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## GregB

Here it is! I just had to tap the gear thingy to access the fancy tools. Here it is timing my laundry 🤪 I walked to a park nearby and my son and I timed each other on an obstacle course we made up. Easy since the second hand his the marks dead on. Bezel is perfect as well 🤸‍♀️


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## GregB

Also I really really like the bezel mechanism on this watch. I’ve had a Rolex sub (awesome), Omega (stiff, loud, couldn’t turn with wet hands), and Seiko (the newest ones seem OK - older not so much) divers and this one feel so positive, is quiet, and can be turned with wet hands. I like the 60 clicks too - it’s easier and quicker to hit the minute I want.


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## parv

GregB said:


> It arrived today! Fast service and the watch looks and feels perfect.
> ...


Could you, or anyone who had ordered from the EBay seller for that matter, tell me/us the date code (first 3-4 characters of the serial "number")?



GregB said:


> Also I really really like the bezel mechanism on this watch
> ...
> I like the 60 clicks too - it’s easier and quicker to hit the minute I want.


I agree with you; it feels kind of "thick", satisfying, better, or some other adjective ("different" certainly does not do justice) than 120-click bezel on BN7110.


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## GregB

I’m not sure if it’s a serial number?

I see numbers on the back and one number might be.

9410 followed by a bunch of other digits.
Why do you want to know and what does it mean?


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## parv

GregB said:


> I’m not sure if it’s a serial number?
> 
> I see numbers on the back and one number might be.


Citizen USA web site has instructions on how to locate a serial "number" (that is in quotes for it is sometimes composed of letters too), at least, at "Can I buy a replacement strap or links for my watch?".



> 9410 followed by a bunch of other digits.


Thank you.



> Why do you want to know and what does it mean?


I want to know so that I could avoid too old of watches if I were to buy; to be aware of the state of the stock in general.

See the thread about decoding the date: Decoding the mordern Citizen Serial number for Date of.... Also, The Citizen serial number decoder.


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## GregB

I believe the BN019X’s came out in 2019, so can’t be too old (not close to vintage anyway). The watches sold on the site are refurbished and come with fresh warranty.


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## Andy-S

parv said:


> I have been waiting for the price to drop to ~US$ 230 (or below ;-) so that I could buy the blue dial version (new); certainly would not mind if Citizen were to introduce a red dial version before that. I would love to wear watches in BN019x series on the bracelet if the bracelet of CA0710 watch could be used instead(?).


FYI, I ordered the Batman colored chrono (CA0719-53E) from Jared's yesterday. On clearance for under $140, there's a $25 coupon, and Retailmenot has 8% cash back. So does PayPal, and I may have been able to activate both at the same time to get the watch down to sub $110.

Main reason I did it was because that was too good of a deal, even if I just harvested the clasp for my BN0198 and flipped the chrono.


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## parv

GregB said:


> I believe the BN019X’s came out in 2019, so can’t be too old (not close to vintage anyway). The watches sold on the site are refurbished and come with fresh warranty.


Citizen USA had noted that blue dial version BN0191-55L with date of 2017-0810 & grey BN0198-98H with 2018-0607. I do not know the kind of date -- introduction in USA, start of manufacturing, etc -- is that.


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## parv

Andy-S said:


> FYI, I ordered the Batman colored chrono (CA0719-53E) from Jared's yesterday. On clearance for under $140, there's a $25 coupon, and Retailmenot has 8% cash back. So does PayPal, and I may have been able to activate both at the same time to get the watch down to sub $110.


Thanks for the tip. I think a new bracelet by itself would likely cost ~US$ 100.



> Main reason I did it was because that was too good of a deal, even if I just harvested the clasp for my BN0198 and flipped the chrono.


Much appreciate your response.


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## ChuckMiller

GregB said:


> Resurrecting this oldish thread. I’ve been on the diver merry-go-round and have sold a sub and Omega 300 as I didn’t want to wear something that pricey and flipped four Seikos.
> 
> Stumbled upon the BN0191 at Kohls, blue one with the orange second-hand, tried it on, and I’m very tempted to give it a try.
> 
> Channels the Omega vibe, looks a lot more handsome than the Seiko offerings (IMHO), and at the right price is no concern to wear anywhere under any conditions. If I’m patient I should be able to get one for 35-45% off from Kohls. My plan is to wait for at least a 30% off coupon and see at that time if the watch still calls to me.
> 
> Of those who picked one up earlier in this thread, still have it? Still part of your rotation?


I went through a collection downsize and let mine go to a new home.


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## Pete26

Andy-S said:


> Glad it sounds like it worked out for you.
> 
> The pin and collar things suck. I've definitely lost them myself, even knowing it's a risk.
> 
> Uploading pics works for me. See my "Coke Zero Diver?" On PC, I just drag into the gray box.
> 
> View attachment 16808999
> 
> 
> Or my BN0198 on a stretch single pass NATO instead of the bracelet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 16809003


My Millionaire friend who has gotten rid of his mechanical watches in favour of eco-drive has the same watch as yours in the top photo. He wears a G-shock for heavy work.


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## DesertArt

I picked up the all black version to have a diver that's a little "dressier". Superb deal from OfficialWatchDeals (Citizen Authorized Dealer on eBay). Flawless watch for a steal of a deal at $154. Bezel alignment perfect, second hand aligns perfectly with markers. Everything one would expect from a new watch. And free FedEx shipping from Texas. This is my second Citizen from OfficialWatchDeals and I can confirm what others have said about this source: awesome!



















(Oops... crown left out during photo.)


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## akshayluc420

Looks great on a red bonetto cinturini too


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