# Accuracy of Ball watches?



## Law4778

I am very nearly going to pull the trigger on an EMII Diver non COSC, i have a query about the accuracy, i have a seen a few posts that say there Balls are very accurate something like +2 seconds a day i think that is great and i hope mine reaches that degree of accuracy, 

Can anyone confirm that Balls accuracy is down to the anti magnetic properties of them, as it it seems only common sense that non anti- magnetic watches if always in an office or near computers or other everyday things would make them run fast or slow, 

A couple of examples my recently departed Breitling Steelfish was +6 seconds per day all the time this was a COSC watch and i know that it was just in the limit but i wasn't that happy with that degree of accuracy,

Another example i have also been intersted in Longines Hydroconquest but have read loads about the accuracy in most cases +13 seconds this has put me off that watch, i guess what i am asking is will my Ball be very accurate? also if a normal Ball is +2 what will a COSC Ball's accuracy be like?

Cheers for any feedback

Lee


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## Mugszy27

*To the second!*

Wore my Voyager GMT PR 2 days ago, skipped yesterday and put it back on this morning. It is not COSC certified but is running to the second. I set my watches to www.time.gov and usually check the one I am wearing in the morning.

Now, I know there is a debate about new watches "settling in" after being worn regularly. I used to be on the side of "no, I don't think so." But, my Ball GMT PR was running a few seconds slow, then a few seconds fast, but over the last week, it has been remarkably right on.

Of course, that is a general statement. Different models have different movements and I believe the movements are listed in a post in the Ball reference section.

EJ


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## Winston Wolf

If you are going to be that fussy, you should get a Casio that syncs with the atomic clock every day..... the reason they put the -4 to +6 for COSC is because even 10 seconds per day is difficult to obtain in a mechanical watch. My Ball watches are accurate, equal to or more than my COSC watches. (Rolex, Omega) They will varry depending on how you wear them, if they are in a winder, position you lay them at night, etc. Don't expect miracles, everyone is different, but they will run within COSC is they have it, or you send it in to get it regulated for free.....


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## Chris_L

I have an Engineer II Ohio. When I first got the watch it was running -2 to -3sec per 24 hours. It's loosened up a bit and I'm now at -51sec over the course of 11 days, laying the watch face down at night. I lose maybe 1sec per night with the watch in this position (versus 3-4 seconds/night any other way). On normal business (desk job) I lose approx. 3 secs from 7:00am to 10:00pm. On active outside days I lose maybe 2 secs on the wrist. 

Yeah, I've been running a variety of tests  I find it very interesting to play with the nightime placment and see the effects.


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## Balldy

Proud owner of an Aviator - my first automatic watch. My old Boccia quartz was remarkably accurate (few seconds per year!) so I had to reset my expectations after reading in the forum how automatics behave. Idecided not to be obsessive about the accuracy of my Ball as long as it was reasonable. I was also intrigued by the "running in period" So decided to keep a record based on "real life usage" rather than a scientific test. I am a few weeks into it so results so far are listed below.

Factors to be aware of:-

I have an office Job.
Watch worn all day - removed overnight - stored face up
Adjusted to GMT each Sunday and wound a few turns.
Accuracy noted each day usually arround 10pm 
Watch not worn for periods at the weekend (doing garded/diy etc)
No watch winder.

Results averaged per 24hr period and then averaged per week.

week 1 = +8.7s
week 2 = +7.1S
week 3 = +5.0s
week 4 = +1.5s (ave dragged down due to one day at -10 secs)
week 5 = +5.3s
This week so far = +5.6s

From the above it looks like there is definately something to the "running in period" I am guessing my Ball is heading for a fairly steady range of say +4 to +6 which for a non COSC watch must be considered as pretty good - certainly not to be worried about.

I hope you find this useful - As recording the stats is now a habit I will keep going and maybe post some graphs.


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## enigmattic122

My week old Fireman 40mm has been averaging a gain of about 4 seconds a day since I got it, which really isn't terrible to me out of the box.

My Tissot PR50 with the same ETA 2824-2 movement (although of a lower grade no doubt) started with between -8 to +12 and eventually settled down to about -6 to +8.

I'm a student and a security guard. Sometimes I'm in a room the size of a large closet with about 15 computer monitors and a bunch of other things too, which I assume is more electronics per square metre than most offices. I also commute about three to four hours a day, I'm sure that helps it remain fully wound most of the time.


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## Law4778

Winston Wolf said:


> If you are going to be that fussy, you should get a Casio that syncs with the atomic clock every day..... the reason they put the -4 to +6 for COSC is because even 10 seconds per day is difficult to obtain in a mechanical watch. My Ball watches are accurate, equal to or more than my COSC watches. (Rolex, Omega) They will varry depending on how you wear them, if they are in a winder, position you lay them at night, etc. Don't expect miracles, everyone is different, but they will run within COSC is they have it, or you send it in to get it regulated for free.....


I ve got two atomic gshock's actually, i have recently started to get a bit anal regarding accuracy i know its sad, i am a one watch at a time guy and have always had mid range to expensive watches recently though i have started to get a bit hung up about my watch being spot on that is why i went down the atomic route a few weeks ago i went for a cheaper watch the MTG 1000 (my other one is a Mudman which i use when i know there is a chance of my watch getting damaged), i thought it looks good, its solar powered and atomic,

Well after about a week of wearing it the novalty wore off and i just saw it as a cheap watch and missed the quality of having a more substantial automatic watch on my wrist, so back to square one sell the MTG and get myself a nice mid range well made automatic watch, that is where the Ball comes in i know its not going to be bang on but there is no harm in wanting it to be as accurate as possible, sorry for the speach.


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## scottw44

While nothing is as accurate as a watch connected to an atomic signal, I enjoy wearing mechanical watches. I love having a miniature work of engineering on my wrist and I like for my watches to achieve to the best of their abilities.

Anything from the Ball line can be regulated to within a few seconds a day, ditto with the balance of most Swiss Movements.

Many of us use our wrist and the real world as our testing grounds, and while not the COSC, I think it gives a great picture on how the watch runs on you. My watchmaker is great and when needed, I can always see him for a tweak.

You will like what you see inside the Ball Case, how everything fits together so well, and extremely high level of finishing detail.

What I thought from pics was a plastic retainer ring is a vinyl like ring that holds the soft iron inner core in perfect harmony with the rest of the case.

Sorry to ramble, but Ball Watches will deliver great accuracy results.


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## Balldy

If all watches were 100% accurate life would be boring! How many times are people accused of being a couple of minutes late for a business meeting and in their defence they reply "well not according to my watch" ........ the rest then all look at their watches and have an argument as to what the time actually is! 15mins later the meeting begins!


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## Law4778

scottw44 said:


> While nothing is as accurate as a watch connected to an atomic signal, I enjoy wearing mechanical watches. I love having a miniature work of engineering on my wrist and I like for my watches to achieve to the best of their abilities.
> 
> Anything from the Ball line can be regulated to within a few seconds a day, ditto with the balance of most Swiss Movements.
> 
> Many of us use our wrist and the real world as our testing grounds, and while not the COSC, I think it gives a great picture on how the watch runs on you. My watchmaker is great and when needed, I can always see him for a tweak.
> 
> You will like what you see inside the Ball Case, how everything fits together so well, and extremely high level of finishing detail.
> 
> What I thought from pics was a plastic retainer ring is a vinyl like ring that holds the soft iron inner core in perfect harmony with the rest of the case.
> 
> Sorry to ramble, but Ball Watches will deliver great accuracy results.


Thanks your last comment is what i was after.


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## Timewaster

Lee, 

I have a EMII Diver GMT (non-COSC). I haven't tested it in awhile, but I'd be happy to wind it fully this evening, check it tomorrow evening, and give you the results. Initially, it was running about -2 seconds per day. On one test after a few months, it was running as slow as -11 seconds per day, but that test followed several days of it only receiving auto-winding via my wearing it from around 6:00 p.m. until around 10:30 p.m., which is not ideal testing conditions by any means.

If you don't mind me asking, if chronometer accuracy is very important to you, why not just get yourself the Ball COSC diver?

Anyway, I'll wind it fully tonight and follow-up tomorrow with the results. If I forget, feel free to send me a PM & remind me.

Regards,
-Jeff


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## Chris_L

I was concerned about accuracy at first but then I read two things that helped put things in perspective:
-You'd have to spend substantially more than $5k to get guaranteed better accuracy. (actually, I was told $20K but I don't know if that is true 
-In my case I'm on a path to losing 3minutes over the course of a month. Setting the watch ahead by 3 minutes at the first of each month means I'll be a few minutes early for a meeting, or I'll be on time by month's end. 

I continue to be amazed by such an old mechanical technology providing 99.994% accuracy over a 24 hour period. We struggle to meet 5 nines in the electrical field that I work in using current start of the art technology! I love my Ball.


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## timefleas

It looks like this thread is pretty well covered, but another two cents worth. I believe the ballpark accuracy Ball ships non-COSC watches at is +/-15 seconds per day, and most folks think that if the watch is operating within those limits, don't tamper with it--I certainly feel that way. However, as pointed out above, most of the caliber movements used in Balls, and other mid to high level automatics can be calibrated to within or close to COSC specs, and often is a rather simple job (some have even attempted themselves, but really requires a monitoring device that is outside most folk's budgets). My own contribution here is to mention the results that a recent COSC test produced on one of my watches. COSC evaluates accuracy in usually five positions (face up, face down, crown down, crown up and on its 12 o'clock "head", I believe). The accuracy for these five positions ranged from +/-19 secs (face up, of all things!) to +/- 2 secs crown down, with an average of +/- 6.9 secs. The point is, automatics just about will never be as accurate as a quartz or eco-drive, especially one that is atomically timed, and much of the accuracy will depend up calibration, condition, manner of use, caliber grade/quality (which varies from low end to high end Balls) and so forth. Expecting accuracy of +/-2 seconds, I think, is quite optimistic for almost any non-COSC automatic.


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## Walking Dude

For what it's worth I have a 1 month old EHCII and it has been running just under 8+ seconds per day. I think it may be speeding up some. I've heard that watches normally speed up some as they break-in and I've also heard that they slow down some as they break-in. We'll see.


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## Law4778

Timewaster said:


> Lee,
> 
> I have a EMII Diver GMT (non-COSC). I haven't tested it in awhile, but I'd be happy to wind it fully this evening, check it tomorrow evening, and give you the results. Initially, it was running about -2 seconds per day. On one test after a few months, it was running as slow as -11 seconds per day, but that test followed several days of it only receiving auto-winding via my wearing it from around 6:00 p.m. until around 10:30 p.m., which is not ideal testing conditions by any means.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, if chronometer accuracy is very important to you, why not just get yourself the Ball COSC diver?
> 
> Anyway, I'll wind it fully tonight and follow-up tomorrow with the results. If I forget, feel free to send me a PM & remind me.
> 
> Regards,
> -Jeff


Hey Jeff that would help but dont put yourself out, the reson im not going for the COSC model is because i figured all the good things i ve read about the accuracy of normal Balls i might as well save the money in not foing for the COSC version.


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## iim7v7im7

Hi,

I own a EMII Diver COSC and I find that I need to adjust the time about once every two-weeks. This is when the watch is ~>1 minute off of a known reference. This translates to about 4-5 secs per day. I do not wear the watch every day but it may see wrist time for 3-4 days over that period. The rest of the time its in my winder. This my routine for all of my mechanical watches. Its driven by my personal tolerance for inaccuracy of +/- 1 minute. 

I do not think th anti-magnetic properties have anything to do with Ball watches accuracy. It has to do with the grade of ETA's which they use and any adjustments they make to them. Resting my watches in a winder, I believe helps because there is no 8 hour period where the watch is in one particular position.

Like others have said, re-setting every two weeks is about average for a good quality mechanical watch (based on a tolerance of a minute).

solar atomic watch = never
Citizen E510 quartz = every 5 years
Normal quartz = every 4 months
Mechanical watch = every 2 weeks

These are my expectations.

Good Luck,

Bob


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## Timewaster

Law4778 said:


> Hey Jeff that would help but dont put yourself out, the reson im not going for the COSC model is because i figured all the good things i ve read about the accuracy of normal Balls i might as well save the money in not foing for the COSC version.


 No problem at all. I just compared it now to time.gov, which is my preferred reference point (I'm actually about an hour and fifteen minutes shy of 24 hours from when I set it last night), and it is about -1 second off. I had set it via hacking, and who knows, I was probably a little bit off with my hand/eye coordination in coordinating it with the official clock. So for all I know, its even less than 1 second off. :-! I let it rest last night with the crown up, if that makes any difference (which it may, as some watches will vary slightly, depending on how you rest the piece at night). Lots of variables at work here, but you get the point. Again, the big difference, IMO, was that I fully wound it last night (manually wound about 35 times or so). So pretty good for a non-chrono, if you ask me.

Regards,
-Jeff


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## G M Fude

Like any manufactured item there will be tolerances depending on the specifications the individual brands work to meet. My Ball Fireman was about +8 seconds per day out of the box. But it has a common movement that any barely competent watchmaker should be familiar with, and after a couple of trips to my local guy we got it to +2 seconds per day. I figured that was going to be hard to beat for the price.


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## dogdoc97

I have a Fireman Ionosphere and love it! I set mine to the gov time website too; it is dead on and I have had it for about 8 months; it is worn everyday and many times to bed; I am a veterinarian and use it in my practcie; it gets wet,banged and everything else and it is for me the MOST accurate watch I have ever owned; and I have many including GP,Zenith and DOXA to name a few! ENJOY! dogdoc


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## Tragic

Accuracy in any automatic/mechanical is a total crapshoot depending on umpteen factors, cosc or not.
Personally the only brand I've owned that I'd EXPECT great accuracy from is Damasko.


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## Shogan191

I guess I'm 'not that demanding. My most accurate watch is a Frederique Constant chrono. It's so accurate I can't figure out how off it is. Its' something like 8 seconds every two weeks. 

The brand new Ball I just received has been 2 seconds fast each of the two days I've had it for a total of 4 seconds. Some of my others are not quite this accurate but to tell the truth I'm almost glad when I get to correct them. I check about every week and most times there's not enough to mess with. Most are so close that I can't stop and restart fast enough to reset them without jumping ahead a couple of minutes. 

I'm just checking my Debaufre GMT and it was 20 seconds off from last Saturday. I really enjoyed that. Able to stop the sweep seconds hand at 12 and restarte with the timer. WoW!! What excitement. LOL.


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## chansigril

my non-cosc anti-magnetic em2 moon glow is ~+3 sec/day.


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## ballwatch

chansigril said:


> my non-cosc anti-magnetic em2 moon glow is ~+3 sec/day.


Almost exactly the same as my "non-cosc anti-magnetic em2 moon glow." I've had it since late 2004 and it's consistently achieved +2-3 seconds.


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## lowks

Just wondering based on the thread would a damasko be more accurate than a spring-drive seiko ?


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## ctujack

I've had maybe 10 Ball watches, all have kept very good time, cosc and non cosc.


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## Oklahoma

My Spacemaster X-Lume is running along at -.6s/day and my Fahrenheit is running at +9.5s/day which I don't overly mind it just means I reset it more often.


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## lvt

lowks said:


> Just wondering based on the thread would a damasko be more accurate than a spring-drive seiko ?


It's technically impossible, the spring drive's accuracy is quartz-guided.


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## samanator

lowks said:


> Just wondering based on the thread would a damasko be more accurate than a spring-drive seiko ?


My two have always preformed at less than two seconds a year.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Nocturnal310

Sometimes i really wonder if this level of accuracy is really a need or just obsessive compulsive behaviour? ...because i always used to be obsessed with having the most accurate time in my classroom..and no one except me cared....normal people keep their watches 10 minutes fast and couldn't care less about actual minute of the hour

for me....accuracy within +25 seconds is acceptable.....this makes sure that i dont miss buses or trains....catching buses or trains needs lot of accuracy in the watch.

and for accuracy...let me tell u that Quartz watches can be equally inaccurate ....and they are progressively inaccurate...meaning it is less likely to be closer to the actual time than a mechanical watch.

mechanical watches can lose seconds also...but quartz watches generally dont lose seconds.


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## Caruso

Ball males hi tec mechanical watches


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## DaveS66

I checked my non-COSC EMII Diver after a few weeks and it was about +4 secs/day. The guy who sold it to me told me that the Store Manager was a massive fan of Ball watches because of their accuracy.


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## clarencek

My five day old Deep Quest is +3 sec per day so far. Super impressed with its performance.


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## Pubcrawler

I have a Fireman Racer and it is running 40 sec fast a DAY! Bought it in August and am hoping that it will settle down in the coming months, but I'm getting a bit worried that it will continue to run that fast. Anybody else have this experience and what did you do about it?


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## lvt

Pubcrawler said:


> I have a Fireman Racer and it is running 40 sec fast a DAY! Bought it in August and am hoping that it will settle down in the coming months, but I'm getting a bit worried that it will continue to run that fast. Anybody else have this experience and what did you do about it?


How did you check the watch's accuracy ?


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## Pubcrawler

lvt said:


> How did you check the watch's accuracy ?


Compared it to this at 12 and 24 hours - The official U.S. time - clock

Is there a better way to check accuracy? I'm relatively new to autos...


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## gtuck

My TrainMaster Power Reserve is just two weeks old now, and while I imagine its behavior may very well change over the next few months, its accuracy is astounding. It seems to gain 3-4 seconds during the day, and if rested with the crown to the right, it loses a second or two at night. I just can't imagine being more pleased with a watch!


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## GregNYC

I've had Ball watches, Blancpain, Zenith, Panerai, Omega, Breitling, IWC, Jaeger, Paul Picot, Doxa, Steinhart, and some microbrand divers. As a brand, with several or many pieces experienced within the brand, Ball has performed about the best I have ever seen. All are well within COSC standards, whether they are officially COSC certified or not. Ball is thinking of re-instituting its own Railroad Standard in watch timing, which I understand was the basis for COSC. +/- 30 seconds/week, which in a way is stricter than COSC. I'm very happy with Ball's timekeeping!


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## samanator

Kind of surprised this zombie thread is back up but to the subject. Based on our discussion with Ball even the non-COSC Ball watches are regulated on three axis.


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## dbh

I am amazed at the accuracy of my new Ball Engineer - II Chronometer Red Label. I bought it on the 4th and set it later that day to the GPS. It had not gained or lost even a second by the time I crossed the time zone on the 9th. Since then I have noticed that after wearing it about 18 hrs/day and leaving it crown up for 6, it loses about 1/2 sec over 5 days. Leaving it dial-up over 1 night restores that 1/2 sec.
To me that slight positional variation is ideal.
So I haven't reset the time in 10 days and it is within 1/2 sec of the GPS. Easily the most accurate mechanical I own.
The only downside is that now I don't want to take it off to wear something else and let it run down!
--
dbh


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## b2s

Since the zombie is alive again, I will add some of mine.
EMII Aviator 46mm runs at +12secs a day, EMII Aviator GMT runs at +5secs a day, EMII Aviator Dual Time runs at +4secs a day. These were no longer with me. 

The one I still keep and use pretty much as my daily wearer is EMII Aviator GMT Black runs at +5secs a day. 

I usually time over the course of 1 months for a few times and calculate the average number. Out of multiple watch brands I own (non cocs movement), Ball seems to be in the front runner for sure.

Cheers


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## gtuck

gtuck said:


> My TrainMaster Power Reserve is just two weeks old now, and while I imagine its behavior may very well change over the next few months, its accuracy is astounding. It seems to gain 3-4 seconds during the day, and if rested with the crown to the right, it loses a second or two at night. I just can't imagine being more pleased with a watch!


Since I was responsible for resurrecting this zombie thread,  here's an update: Over the course of this last week, my PR gained 9 seconds. 
That certainly would meet RR and COSC standards! My B&R and Hamilton both changed after a few months. The B&R was regulated by my AD and the Hamilton became erratic and was sent back to Hamilton service. So, I know things will change but it's time to stop tracking and starting enjoying!
May this zombie rest in peace. ;-)


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## sattha61

I set my watch to the time I got off 'timeanddate.com' and it is five days since that setting and my watch is now +16 seconds faster. That averaged to +3.2 seconds faster per day. I shall continue monitoring for a full 14 days and will report back the accuracy again.

BTW, I am wearing a BALL Fireman II that I bought 11 days ago.


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## gtuck

You might want to experiment how you place your watch at night, assuming you do take it off. I've found that if placed so the face is nearly vertical with the crown at 3 o'clock, it loses some of the time it gained during the day. 

Congratulations on the new Fireman!


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## Phil0886

Puurchased a Fireman II just after Christmas and have been checking the timekeeping since I got it - when worn regularly it's within +1-+3s per day and only deviates from this when not worn and winding down. For a sopposed 'entry level' model to the range it's hard to fault. :-!


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## sattha61

gtuck said:


> You might want to experiment how you place your watch at night, assuming you do take it off. I've found that if placed so the face is nearly vertical with the crown at 3 o'clock, it loses some of the time it gained during the day.
> 
> Congratulations on the new Fireman!


Thank you for the tip.

I have continuously worn the watch even when sleeping for the past five days. Last night I decided to remove my watch before I sleep to see if there is any difference. I laid it totally flat with the dial face up. A while ago I checked and I found the gain is now +18 sec for the 6th day. The mean average is now down to 3.0 sec per day. I will continue to do this i.e. take off my watch for the night (approximately 8 hours at rest) until the 14th day and then calculate the mean average again. It should be interesting to see the result. After that I may try your method of keeping the face vertical.


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## gtuck

sattha61 said:


> Thank you for the tip.
> 
> I have continuously worn the watch even when sleeping for the past five days. Last night I decided to remove my watch before I sleep to see if there is any difference. I laid it totally flat with the dial face up. A while ago I checked and I found the gain is now +18 sec for the 6th day. The mean average is now down to 3.0 sec per day. I will continue to do this i.e. take off my watch for the night (approximately 8 hours at rest) until the 14th day and then calculate the mean average again. It should be interesting to see the result. After that I may try your method of keeping the face vertical.


I tried face up, face down, crown up and crown down and finally face vertical as if you were holding the watch in front of your face while on your left wrist. Somewhere I'd read that this is one of the positions in which a watch is not regulated. In any case, mine will lose a second or two in that position overnight helping to compensate for gain during the day. It's fun experimenting.


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## sattha61

Today ends the 9th day since I have worn my BALL and the 4th day since I started taking it off at night before I sleep. Its accuracy seems to have dropped off. It has gained +30 secs since I started, giving a current mean average of 3.333 secs. However, comparing today's time to yesterday's it has actually gained +5 secs. According to what I read here about COSC time I understand that is still pretty good. I was hoping that the accuracy would improve after wearing it a while but it seems to be going downhill. Is this normal?


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## samanator

sattha61 said:


> Today ends the 9th day since I have worn my BALL and the 4th day since I started taking it off at night before I sleep. Its accuracy seems to have dropped off. It has gained +30 secs since I started, giving a current mean average of 3.333 secs. However, comparing today's time to yesterday's it has actually gained +5 secs. According to what I read here about COSC time I understand that is still pretty good. I was hoping that the accuracy would improve after wearing it a while but it seems to be going downhill. Is this normal?


This is the problem with this system. Don't take a snap shot look of a single day. Daily events vary and can affect a single day but over time they flatten. Normal depends on your day.


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## sattha61

samanator said:


> This is the problem with this system. Don't take a snap shot look of a single day. Daily events vary and can affect a single day but over time they flatten. Normal depends on your day.


OK, thank you for the advice. I will continue monitoring until the 14th day and then calculate the mean average for the period.


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## Balldy

sattha61 said:


> OK, thank you for the advice. I will continue monitoring until the 14th day and then calculate the mean average for the period.


Below are the results I got when testing my Aviator from new based on every day wear. This is probably the best way to see what's going on and to smooth out the daily variations. It also seems to verify the concept that there is a "running in" period where the accuracy improves after a couple of months or so of wearing.

The scale on the y-axis is "seconds fast" and the x-axis is "days" on the top chart and "weeks" on the bottom chart

Balldy


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## samanator

I've generally kept it as a policy not to measure accuracy until the watch has been in use about 30 days. The only variance from this is if I suspect some shipping damage which shows up as the watch gaining or loosing minutes in just a few hours. So time this is cured by just letting it completely run out of power.


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## sattha61

Balldy said:


> Below are the results I got when testing my Aviator from new based on every day wear. This is probably the best way to see what's going on and to smooth out the daily variations. It also seems to verify the concept that there is a "running in" period where the accuracy improves after a couple of months or so of wearing.
> 
> The scale on the y-axis is "seconds fast" and the x-axis is "days" on the top chart and "weeks" on the bottom chart
> 
> Balldy
> 
> View attachment 774123





samanator said:


> I've generally kept it as a policy not to measure accuracy until the watch has been in use about 30 days. The only variance from this is if I suspect some shipping damage which shows up as the watch gaining or loosing minutes in just a few hours. So time this is cured by just letting it completely run out of power.


Getting involved in testing my watch for its accuracy and reading the posts on this thread has taught me a lot. I have now entered the 14th day of monitoring my Fireman II for accuracy and so far it has consistently maintained a daily average of +3 to +4 sec. From what I have learned so far that is supposed to be very good and within COSC specifications. Am I correct? I used to be pretty hung up on COSC and and thought it to be the holy grail to own ultimately. I do not anymore and feel the extra money paid to get the COSC certificate is just not worth it.


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## samanator

sattha61 said:


> Getting involved in testing my watch for its accuracy and reading the posts on this thread has taught me a lot. I have now entered the 14th day of monitoring my Fireman II for accuracy and so far it has consistently maintained a daily average of +3 to +4 sec. From what I have learned so far that is supposed to be very good and within COSC specifications. Am I correct? I used to be pretty hung up on COSC and and thought it to be the holy grail to own ultimately. I do not anymore and feel the extra money paid to get the COSC certificate is just not worth it.


Yes it is within COSC which is very good, but not uncommon for a non-COSC Ball.


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## Tuff_Guy_Tony

With all this talk of tracking the accuracy of you Ball watch, I was wondering how Ball and more specifically how the railroad engineers made sure that their watches were properly set and synchronized. I know it is rather easy for us these days to just go on line to look up the time and re adjust as needed.


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## ~tc~

That was actually the big part of Balls business - providing the "standard" clocks and recording the calibration.


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## Tuff_Guy_Tony

So would Ball telegraph the exact time to all the stations across the union?


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## samanator

Tuff_Guy_Tony said:


> So would Ball telegraph the exact time to all the stations across the union?


He set a national standard that would be broadcasted along the the telegraph lines. He used the signals from the Naval Observatory. This was the base standard that everything synced to on the RR and clocks at the station (manually of course). Quite similar to what is done now from Colorado linked to atomic clocks now. I'll try and find a link with more. If you google Webb Ball and the train wreck some of the articles go into some greater detail.


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## Tuff_Guy_Tony

Thanks Samanator.


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## sattha61

After 22 days monitoring the accuracy of my BALL Fireman II I have decided to end it. It has consistently maintained an average of +3 to +3.5 secs daily during this period. I am very satisfied with its performance and now will take it of my wrist for the moment so that I can wear my other watch.


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## iceman64

My HC Deepquest is accurate to +2 seconds in 7 days. Exceptional and acceptable!


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## gtuck

gtuck said:


> Since I was responsible for resurrecting this zombie thread,  here's an update: Over the course of this last week, my PR gained 9 seconds.
> That certainly would meet RR and COSC standards! My B&R and Hamilton both changed after a few months. The B&R was regulated by my AD and the Hamilton became erratic and was sent back to Hamilton service. So, I know things will change but it's time to stop tracking and starting enjoying!
> May this zombie rest in peace. ;-)


My PR sat on the shelf for a month while we were on vacation. It went back on the wrist the day we returned. Now it is running 10 seconds fast each day rather than each week. I let it run down completely and restarted it again. It's still 10 seconds fast each day. I assume this is within specs, but it does bug me as my other two autos are within 2-3 seconds a day.


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## watchhound

Like many watch companies these days, Ball just uses stock ETA movements. They can be as accurate as any decent grade, well-adjusted ETA movement.


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## ~tc~

watchhound said:


> Like many watch companies these days, Ball just uses stock ETA movements. They can be as accurate as any decent grade, well-adjusted ETA movement.


While technically true, I think this statement downplays what Ball actually does. While the movements may indeed have the nivarox springs and incabloc fitted by ETA, that is not exactly "stock" - those are "options". I also understand all movements in Ball watches are multi position adjusted, which not many of the "stock ETA" watch companies do.

It should also be added that a "well adjusted ETA movement" is as, or more, capable of good accuracy than just about any "in house" movement.


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## watchhound

~tc~ said:


> While technically true, I think this statement downplays what Ball actually does. While the movements may indeed have the nivarox springs and incabloc fitted by ETA, that is not exactly "stock" - those are "options". I also understand all movements in Ball watches are multi position adjusted, which not many of the "stock ETA" watch companies do.
> 
> True - Ball uses various grades of ETA movements, some of which (in certain models) are chronometer grade and have corresponding parts.
> 
> It should also be added that a "well adjusted ETA movement" is as, or more, capable of good accuracy than just about any "in house" movement.


Agreed. Accuracy has little to do with whether a movement is a base ETA or an in-house movement of some kind. Any basic $100 2824 movement can be adjusted to keep very good time.


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## samanator

Note that there are several that actually have Ball modifications. The Orbital and the upcoming BMW watches have the Amortizer system added to their movements. The 43mm Night Train and the Cleveland Express Dual Time have the UTC and date change warning added. TMT watches have the thermometer added, World Time have the day function added....And so on.


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## Lowengen

Hi there,
I recently got the Limited Edition Ball Trainmaster Celsius... Its actually a ETA base, with the addition of TMT into the watch and is so called "patented" by Ball i guess...
On the accuracy part, this is not a COSC watch, but, here's what I found out :

First few days, it gains bout 6 secs / day... Later, didn't bother to look at it, until it reaches 7 days, and it only gained 18 secs (18 secs / week)... After that, start looking at it again, and it gains 6 secs / day back.. lol...
Will continue to monitor it... well, the watch as at today is only 2 weeks old.. xP


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## gtuck

gtuck said:


> My PR sat on the shelf for a month while we were on vacation. It went back on the wrist the day we returned. Now it is running 10 seconds fast each day rather than each week. I let it run down completely and restarted it again. It's still 10 seconds fast each day. I assume this is within specs, but it does bug me as my other two autos are within 2-3 seconds a day.


Ball Service Center adjusted it and for a month or more it was within 2 seconds a day and then started losing time. It is now losing 10 seconds a day. Arghhh. It is back at AD for a careful adjustment. I certainly don't expect quartz accuracy but my Khaki Field is within 2 seconds a day. So, I was assuming that a watch cost several times more would at least approach this level of accuracy. Naive I guess.


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## Bigjamesdean

I picked my EMII Aviator up pre owned and guessing I got fairly lucky. Since its the new kid on the block its had the wrist for 2 weeks non stop. Its +2 secs over that period 
which is better than my Omega's,Breitlings and every other watch I have owned. Now I am scared to buy another one as I fear I have peaked !


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## Lowengen

Just a small update...
Now that my watch has "cooled" down, the watch is only gaining averagely 1.5secs / day...
An amazing watch!!


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## humpty1

My month old Spacemaster is averaging +3secs per day, not bad I think. It gains 4 to 6 secs per day if removed overnight and left crown up or crown down. Decided to keep it on after a couple of days of that to keep it at the +3secs level. I hope it stays this good


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## Mayan Elephant

i posted this in another thread, then found this thread. I think it is more appropriate here.

Thank you.

I recently bought two Ball watches. They were both purchased as gifts. The first was the Aviator 46mm with both the leather and SS bracelet. 

The second watch was the Engineer Hydrocarbon Midsize. 

The watch is beautiful, however, there is a glitch here - _*it gains over 2 HOURS PER DAY. *_I understand it is under warranty, and I intend to return it to the jeweler when they re-open this week. What i would like to ask members of this forum is - Have any of you had this experience with your new Ball. If so, how have you handled it with the jeweler and with Ball, were you able to resolve this by getting a repair, or a replacement? I am inclined to push for a repair, trusting the company to double check the accuracy of the watch after it is serviced. 

any thoughts? Damn this is disappointing.


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## Oklahoma

Sounds magnetized. Mine have all been great for timing my SM Xlume was -.5to-2 per day my trainmaster fahrenheit is +9 per day and my NEDU has been +12 in the three weeks I have owned it so +.5 per day.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


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## ~tc~

Ball website doesn't say anything about higher antimagnetic properties for the midsize, so it is possible it's been magnetized


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## gtuck

With a another similarly priced brand, mine started gaining an hour a day. My AD cleaned some misplaced lubricant which bound two parts--the result of some physical shock the watchmaker surmised.


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## samanator

My wife has a midsize that had a timing problem that was fixed by Ball US under warranty. I think is was accomplished in about 3.5 weeks. It was not magnetized. Has been fine since then.


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## gtuck

gtuck said:


> Ball Service Center adjusted it and for a month or more it was within 2 seconds a day and then started losing time. It is now losing 10 seconds a day. Arghhh. It is back at AD for a careful adjustment. I certainly don't expect quartz accuracy but my Khaki Field is within 2 seconds a day. So, I was assuming that a watch cost several times more would at least approach this level of accuracy. Naive I guess.


Well the weather has been wet and cold in the Pacific Northwest, so my Power Reserve is spending the holidays in sunny St. Pete----at the Ball Service 
Center. It is inconsistent depending upon the extent the mainspring is wound i.e., it will run accurately if the power reserve is at 42 hours but lose 12 seconds a day if it is at 30 hours. I hope to report good things when it returns. It was my favorite watch. My BR 126 Vintage has been gaining one second a day this week and may just displace the PR.


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## Lowengen

Hi all,

As earlier mentioned, my watch (Ball Trainmaster Celsius) gains +6 secs / day, then it became +2 secs / day (short period only) then now it is gaining +6 secs / day again... 
Should I get it to the service center to "tweak" it? Although +6 secs is ok to me, but I realised it could / should be better?


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## gtuck

Lowengen said:


> Hi all,
> 
> As earlier mentioned, my watch (Ball Trainmaster Celsius) gains +6 secs / day, then it became +2 secs / day (short period only) then now it is gaining +6 secs / day again...
> Should I get it to the service center to "tweak" it? Although +6 secs is ok to me, but I realised it could / should be better?


If you take it off at night, have you experimented with placing it in various positions to see if it will lose some of that gain? For example, with my Ball PR, leaving the watch face up maintained the time but placing it in any other position resulted in it losing time. My Bell & Ross Vintage 126 loses a couple of seconds a day. Leaving it face up at night, it gains back the time. So right now, it is within a second.


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## garyg363

You might want to check with Ball. They have told me that if a watch starts to act erratic, there is a good chance that the watch has become magnetized. They can demagnetize it. I am not sure if what you are describing qualifies as "erratic enough", but they would know.

Good Luck.


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## singlemalt_18

Lowengen said:


> Hi all,
> 
> As earlier mentioned, my watch (Ball Trainmaster Celsius) gains +6 secs / day, then it became +2 secs / day (short period only) then now it is gaining +6 secs / day again...
> Should I get it to the service center to "tweak" it? Although +6 secs is ok to me, but I realised it could / should be better?


Watches that operate at 28,800 beats per hour will total 691,200 over one day at a rate of 8 beats per second.

An error rate of 6 seconds per day is a total of 48 beats.

48 / 691,200 = .0000694

In other words, 6 seconds per day is accurate to within .007% (seven one thousandths of one percent), and I think that is much smaller than a "tweak". In human and mechanical terms for our physical world, it is perfect.


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## Lowengen

singlemalt_18 said:


> Watches that operate at 28,800 beats per hour will total 691,200 over one day at a rate of 8 beats per second.
> 
> An error rate of 6 seconds per day is a total of 48 beats.
> 
> 48 / 691,200 = .0000694
> 
> In other words, 6 seconds per day is accurate to within .007% (seven one thousandths of one percent), and I think that is much smaller than a "tweak". In human and mechanical terms for our physical world, it is perfect.


Lol.. So I guess its kinda accurate... Means nothing to worry about...
Thanks alot..
I tried positioning it in alot of ways, but it seems that it dosent affect much...
And, I dont think its magnetized, as if it were, it would be gaining way more than 6 secs.. xP
Actually, +6 secs / day is a good record for me already..


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## divided

Been timing my Spacemaster since I got it and after 2 days it is + 1 second from time.gov.


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## iceman64

I have a HC DeepQuest that was purchased new in April of 2012. To date, this COSC chronometer runs at + 0.5 sec in 72 hrs, and less than + 1 sec in 7 days while being worn on the wrist. Quite pleased I must say :-!.


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## Rommel1

I've had my Alligator for about 9 months now and it's been loosing about 15 seconds a day. I've had some unpleasant things going on lately and needed something else to occupy my thoughts. So I did some research and decided to pop open the case (already had some tools). It took me a couple days, but I got it regulated on my own. This was on the 11th and it's running +/- 0 seconds a day. I loose a couple seconds during the day but gain it back at night while resting dial up.

I know it was very risky but I'm pretty good with my hands and the satisfaction you get from doing something yourself is something I really enjoy. The ball was easily my favorite in my modest collection and got the most wrist time. Now I can't take it off 

Tony


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## MarkingTime

My Spacemaster Orbital is so accurate I've never bothered to measure it. It's still in sync with the atomic clock a week after setting it give or take a few seconds. Like I said, I didn't measure the per-second accuracy as there was no need, it's always pointing to the right minute every time I compare to a source like Colorado.


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## gtuck

My Trainmaster WorldTime COSC is within a second a day. My Power Reserve varied considerably depending on the reserve but after regulation, is within a second a day as well. I am thrilled with both watches.


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## sarmajor

I have two Seiko's and two Ball Watches (EHC Deepquest & EMII Diver) in my watch winder and the Ball watches leave the Seikos for dead accuracy wise. The EHC Deepquest and the EMII Diver keep very good time and are usualy withing a minute of each other at a glance.


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