# Cole Haan Shoes



## tony20009

I went shopping yesterday and happened by a Cole Haan store. I've got lots of Cole Haan shoes from the 1970s - 1990s, but none more recently made. I love my old CH shoes, especially the Bragano loafers. Looking at CH's offerings yesterday, I was disappointed. I even checked CH's website later and what I saw there isn't any better. <sigh>

Do any of you who've been wearing CH shoes for a very long time also feel they just aren't as nice -- stylistically "cool" -- as they used to be? I'm sure CH's shoes these days are well enough made, but they are just boring looking to me these days, and those that aren't dull have "odd" lines. I was looking for loafers, and admittedly, I have a lot of shoes, so "typical" styles and designs don't strike me all that much. Perhaps that's the issue?

CH's lack of interesting styles isn't that big a deal. Just something I noticed and wondered if others have noticed it too.

All the best.


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## El-Bonedeedo

tony20009 said:


> I went shopping yesterday and happened by a Cole Haan store. I've got lots of Cole Haan shoes from the 1970s - 1990s, but none more recently made. I love my old CH shoes, especially the Bragano loafers. Looking at CH's offerings yesterday, I was disappointed. I even checked CH's website later and what I saw there isn't any better. <sigh>
> 
> Do any of you who've been wearing CH shoes for a very long time also feel they just aren't as nice -- stylistically "cool" -- as they used to be? I'm sure CH's shoes these days are well enough made, but they are just boring looking to me these days, and those that aren't dull have "odd" lines. I was looking for loafers, and admittedly, I have a lot of shoes, so "typical" styles and designs don't strike me all that much. Perhaps that's the issue?
> 
> CH's lack of interesting styles isn't that big a deal. Just something I noticed and wondered if others have noticed it too.
> 
> All the best.


Agreed that they don't seem to be as nice or as well made as they used to be. I started with them back in the late 80's. It seems since Nike bought them it's been a confused brand and a slow decline in quality. The fit seems to be very inconsistent as well, at least to me.


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## tony20009

El-Bonedeedo said:


> Agreed that they don't seem to be as nice or as well made as they used to be. I started with them back in the late 80's. It seems since Nike bought them it's been a confused brand and a slow decline in quality. *The fit seems to be very inconsistent as well*, at least to me.


Interesting that you mentioned the fit. Back in the '80s, I knew exactly what size to get based on whether the shoe was Bregano or one of the other lines. I didn't even have to try them on; they always fit perfectly. My old size nines still fit just fine, but the other day, I couldn't have got my foot in a size nine CH without divine intervention. LOL

TY for sharing your observation.

All the best.


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## Gunnar_917

I'm too young to know what the cole haan of old were like. From what I've seen of the current ones I can't say I've liked the finish of them, they feel cheap. 

I have a preference for English shoes generally. Jeffery west I really like for their finish and quality for the price. American shoes I really like Allen Edmonds; I didn't like Alden - they were well made but we're just so boring. Italian shoes are stylistically nice but You also have to treat them that way. Yes I polish my shoes regularly but they just are fragile


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## mpalmer

To my knowledge, the only really well made American shoes these days are Alden. After that, it's best to look to England... 

Personally, I am fond of Trickers and Crockett & Jones...


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## Tomatoes11

Style wise, I like Zegna myself but honestly. However, my favourite shoes are cheap 100 dollar hush puppies. They are noisy which may be deal breakers for some. But I see a lot of clients and move around all day and Hush Puppies are the closest dress shoes to runners I could find. Straight out water proofing helps where I am too where it rains a lot.

Allen Edmonds are crazy durable but just not my style.


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## El-Bonedeedo

Alden are very nice, well made, conservative shoes, you can't go wrong. I like To Boot New York for more casual choices. Also, I have some Ferragamo shoes I've had for a while, had one pair resoled and they've held up very nicely, but they're not so conservative in their styling. It's a shame Cole Haan has become a bit of hit or miss.


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## tony20009

It is strange how we hold on to the pieces of the past while we wait for our futures.
― Ally Condie, _Matched _

Not that this has anything to do with Cole Haan, but Alden, Peal & Co., Crockett & Jones each make/made shoes for Brooks Brothers. Allen Edmonds, AFAIK doesn't/didn't. The styles each of them seem pretty similar to me, but all of them make very nice shoes. C&J offer a few perforated toe designs that I don't know if the others offer, Peal still make a beautiful house/evening slipper and I haven't seen that style from the others. Short of those few exceptions, I don't see a whole lot that's different among the various makers' styling; all of them are super conservative/traditional shoes.

I like staid shoes well enough and have plenty of them. I liked Cole Haan mainly for their low slung Italian loafers and boots, my favorites of which were made from woven leather or exotic skins, but all of which are incredibly comfortable and are basically updated versions of traditional themes. As you can see from the pics below, a great many of them were made on a slipper design, which is why, I think, they are so comfortable. I'm just glad I have a lot of them so I don't have to wear any one pair so often that they'll wear out.

The Braganos were among the few makes of shoe that I'd often buy in whatever color they were offered because they are so comfortable and look awesome with jeans and with slacks, and with or without socks. The other great thing is about them is that they were (usually) considerably less dear than designer shoes of that era. Something like them was what I was hoping Cole Haan might have once again included in their collection. Alas, no such thing has happened.


























































































All the best.

I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them.
― Andy Bernard


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## stndrdtime

mpalmer said:


> To my knowledge, the only really well made American shoes these days are Alden. After that, it's best to look to England...
> 
> Personally, I am fond of Trickers and Crockett & Jones...


Also, Allen Edmonds is US made. I own a number of pairs of Alden and Allen Edmonds and like both. Alden tends to be more "robust" in their build, but not necessarily better in my view. AE tends to offer more variety in terms of styles. I agree that Cole Hahn is out of the picture in regard to shoes I would consider buying.


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## tony20009

I'm gonna take y'all's word for it re: Alden and AE. ;-) I have all the conservative, business shoes I can possibly ever need, so I doubt either maker's offerings will be what I'm looking for.  Loafers, boots and other casual styles (non-sneaker) are "my thing" when it comes to shoes.

All the best.


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## MLJinAK

Allen Edmonds makes loafers and non sneaker casual shoes:


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## MLJinAK

I agree that Cole Haan's are cheap feeling. I used to just buy Ecco's without thinking about it. But when I got tired of them becoming ugly after 12 months, cracking after 14 months, I overhauled my shoe collection to all Allen Edmonds. You can pick up quite a few at their frequent sales.

My experience with Allen Edmonds has been hit and miss. DEFINITELY try them on first. And make sure you try on a 1/2 size larger, as some of my regular size feels slightly tight compared to the Ecco's.

Cole Haan and Ecco's seem comparable. Mid-range leather glued on to rubber.


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## tony20009

MLJinAK said:


> Allen Edmonds makes loafers and non sneaker casual shoes:
> [pics deleted]


I was sad because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet. So I said, "Got any shoes you're not using?"
― Steven Wright

Well, yes, they do indeed. TY for suggesting them.  I can't say I have a clear picture in my head of what I wanted, but they weren't it. Nothing wrong with them, but I have shoes not all that much unlike either of them. I have nearly 300 pairs of shoes, largely because they never wear out and I still have the ones I wore even in high school. I say that only to explain how it is that little a conservative maker like AE is something dissimilar from a pair I already have.

At this point, I'm looking for "out there" shoes that I will only wear a couple to five times the season I buy them, and then not again for a couple years. That's not deliberate; it's just how things seem to work when I buy "funky" shoes. That kind of shoe just isn't the sort of thing I'll buy with the intent of wearing them often in the first place, even if I wear them a bit more than noted.

Truth is, I know where I need to go to get stuff that "floats my boat." It's just a matter that I happened into CH's store hoping against all good sense that they might have "changed their evil ways" since last I looked at them. Actually, I'll almost always check out what's on offer at sensible prices before I'll haul my sorry a$$ over to the boutiques I know will have several things that catch my eye but that also and unfortunately won't be sensibly priced. :-d

I've had my eye on a few loafers and haven't settled on which one yet.








































Of course, the first four are all the same shoe with different styling. I love the snakeskin; I'm sure that'll be one pair I get. I just haven't committed to one of the others yet. I was hoping something vaguely similar to one of them (most probably the snakeskin ones) might be at the CH store.

The biggest question in my mind is whether I want the studded ones which I will never have to polish, but will some day look like hell because they are suede under the studs, or the patent ones which will be super easy to keep looking great. (I'm leaning toward the red and black ones.) The denim ones are a long shot because after five wears, I'm I'm sure they'll look awful and there'll be nothing I can do to make them look "right" again.

The more difficult choice is between the two blue penny loafers. I love both, but I think I can probably get a lot of mileage out of the smooth ones. I think they'd be great for kicking about in the Summer with jeans or slacks.

I'm sure you can see why the shoes above are the types I'm looking at. They are but an evolution from the somewhat more conservative loafers I bought from CH years ago, but they aren't totally crazy either. They are just fun shoes.

All the best.

"But he is an Italian," was Umberto's sensible reply. "He doesn't care if you break some law a little bit, as long as you wear beautiful shoes." 
― Anne Fortier, _Juliet _


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## Gunnar_917

Check out Jeffery West if you haven't already. They do more conservative styles but from the above here's one I think you may like


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## Chronopolis

I was *JUST* looking for brogue boots - and here it is!! THIS one will do me nicely.

As for Cole Haan, I used to love them in the 80's. Really well made and stylish back then.
I didn't know they got bought out by Nike till just now. 
Well, that night explain some things. Am not too pleased with their current offerings.



MLJinAK said:


> Allen Edmonds


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## tony20009

Gunnar_917 said:


> Check out Jeffery West if you haven't already. They do more conservative styles but from the above here's one I think you may like
> [pic deleted]


TY. I will check them out. I do like the pair you pictured. TY again.

All the best.


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## Gunnar_917

tony20009 said:


> TY. I will check them out. I do like the pair you pictured. TY again.
> 
> All the best.


You're welcome.

If if you're not in a rush herring shoes do great prices on them when they have their sales (but herring doesn't always stock the full range of jeffery west).


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## tony20009

Gunnar_917 said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> If if you're not in a rush herring shoes do great prices on them when they have their sales (but herring doesn't always stock the full range of jeffery west).


I'll look into them. TY.

I'm not in a rush, but I"m not waiting past Friday to buy whatever I'm going to get. I like getting new "stuff" and having "fun stuff," but I don't much like shopping for it, looking for it, or taking more than five minutes to get it.

For example, I don't have a thing against, say, Walmart, other than that their stores are so damn big. Usually when I go to one, by the time I've walked a quarter mile to get to section I want, I'm so "over it" that the least little thing will pluck my nerves and I'll just say "F-it," put down whatever I'd already picked up and just leave. I don't even like being in huge stores like Walmart.

Even when I go to BJ's/Costco, when I walk in the door and see long lines at the cash registers, I just turn around and leave. Even going to get gas I do that. I just can't get with waiting in long lines spend money or having to dig through stuff to find what I'm looking for. I'm far happier in a small store that has a limited selection. They either have something I want and I'm in and out quickly, or they don't, and I'm outta there even sooner. LOL

All the best.


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## Mediocre

Just an FYI, Nike sold Cole Haan. I noticed that the Nike ownership was mentioned in the thread. That is not the case today. My only pair of CH's are black dress shoes, highly polished, worn on the very rare black-tie occasion. 

I have read mixed reviews on Ecco, but mine have held up much better than other shoes I have tried, primarily Johnston & Murphy. MY most comfortable shoes IMHO are actually Merrells. The little orange accents also make the Merrells a bit more *fun* lol


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## El-Bonedeedo

Mediocre said:


> Just an FYI, Nike sold Cole Haan. I noticed that the Nike ownership was mentioned in the thread. That is not the case today. My only pair of CH's are black dress shoes, highly polished, worn on the very rare black-tie occasion.
> 
> I have read mixed reviews on Ecco, but mine have held up much better than other shoes I have tried, primarily Johnston & Murphy. MY most comfortable shoes IMHO are actually Merrells. The little orange accents also make the Merrells a bit more *fun* lol


Yep, but my point was that it was a turning point for the brand. After Nike bought them, they seem to have lost their magic. They used to be really great shoes. But, since that subsequent infusion of Nike DNA, Cole Haan seems to not know who they are any longer.

Ecco makes comfortable shoes, but to me none of the styles are particularly good looking. I have a pair of their boots, and a pair of their hydromax golf shoes. But nothing from them that I'd wear to work.


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## Split Second

Agree. Which is why I switched to Johnston & Murphy a long time ago.


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## tony20009

El-Bonedeedo said:


> Yep, but my point was that it was a turning point for the brand. After Nike bought them, they seem to have lost their magic. They used to be really great shoes. But, since that subsequent infusion of Nike DNA, Cole Haan seems to not know who they are any longer.
> 
> Ecco makes comfortable shoes, but to me none of the styles are particularly good looking. I have a pair of their boots, and a pair of their hydromax golf shoes. But nothing from them that I'd wear to work.
> 
> 
> 
> Mediocre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just an FYI, Nike sold Cole Haan. I noticed that the Nike ownership was mentioned in the thread. That is not the case today. My only pair of CH's are black dress shoes, highly polished, worn on the very rare black-tie occasion.
> 
> I have read mixed reviews on Ecco, but mine have held up much better than other shoes I have tried, primarily Johnston & Murphy. MY most comfortable shoes IMHO are actually Merrells. The little orange accents also make the Merrells a bit more *fun* lol
Click to expand...

I had forgotten that Nike sold Cole Haan. If memory serves, the news I recall about the transaction focused on Nike and not Cole Haan, perhaps because the buyer is a private equity firm.

I did notice that I found less and less to like from CH not very long after Nike acquired them. Nike started putting air bubbles in Cole Haans, in particular inside the soles of what were ostensibly dress shoes. Does anyone really want a proper dress oxford or brogue that has a visible air bubble in the heel? I sure don't. The air bubble was a good idea that got carried too far. I think the bubble is okay for walking shoes and sneakers. Perhaps I'm odd in that I don't walk that much on hard surfaces when the occasion also calls for me to wear a proper dress shoe or sleek Italian loafer/slipper. I think if Nike wanted to maximize the use of their "air tech," they should have bought Danner, Alico, Lowa, Vasque or some other sport shoe company.

Shoes like these need all the cushioning a foot can get.



















Shoes like these just need to be well made and good looking. If they fit right, they'll be plenty comfortable.



































Split Second said:


> Agree. Which is why I switched to Johnston & Murphy a long time ago.


I remember J&M as a kid. (Dad still swears by them.) Then as a teen and college student, they didn't cross my mind. (No reason; they just didn't. Neither did most other "business shoe" reputed companies'.) Then somewhere in the early 1990s I went into an airport J&M store and discovered they had begun to make all sorts of stuff besides shoes and foot-related goods. I like their non-footwear too. Knowing I'm likely to see a J&M, B^2, or Jos. A. Bank in an airport has saved me one more than one occasion. LOL

All the best.


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## MLJinAK

tony20009 said:


>


I'm a fairly plain and conservative - but these smooth blue ones speak to me... 

Maybe I need to venture out of my black and browns dungeon...


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## MLJinAK

I've actually got a pair of these in the all dark brown leather, and they're very comfortable after the break in. Took them hiking in New Zealand and many, many areas throughout Alaska and they work wonderfully.

Super impressed by the Vibram kletterlift soles. Stick to all kinds of surfaces, wide platform. But we're not on a Danner thread so I'll stop my fawning for now.



tony20009 said:


>


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## Gunnar_917

MLJinAK said:


> I'm a fairly plain and conservative - but these smooth blue ones speak to me...
> 
> Maybe I need to venture out of my black and browns dungeon...


At leat you wear brown so you're better than at least 60% of the population


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## little big feather

Had a pair of CH years ago, not that great. I like Trickers,Shipton & Heneage,Allen Edmonds, PF Flyers.


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## Mediocre

Split Second said:


> Agree. Which is why I switched to Johnston & Murphy a long time ago.


I have three pair, and I doubt I purchase anymore. The loafers are comfortable enough, but they are tad too casual for work IMHO. They have just been turned into my house shoes. The other two pair of laced J&M's have not held up anywhere near as well as I would have expected. Initial appearance was better than my Eccos, but the Eccos have long outlasted the J&M's. I am crossing my fingers that some of the new-to-me brands I have read about in this thread may be better options for future purchases!


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## drhr

I'm such a hick, CH's pretty much all I buy, then and now, very satisfied all the way round. Recently ventured into an Ecco, very comfy, not much on style, may look into others depending on look . . .


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## NathanielGoodtimes

I probably dont fall into the category of long use, only the last 4 or so years. But CH are the only shoes I buy for work, I have not found another company that can take the beating I give o shoes and still last and polish up nice. That being said within the last 1.5 years their designs have just gone crazy. They seem to have moved away from traditional designs and are only trying to hit the newage/cool factor.


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## tony20009

drhr said:


> *I'm such a hick, CH's pretty much all I buy, then and now, very satisfied all the way round. *Recently ventured into an Ecco, very comfy, not much on style, may look into others depending on look . . .


If you are happy with them, there's no good reason to switch off of them, IMO. I like CH's quality; I just don't like that they no longer offer styles that appeal to me (I pictured a bunch of them earlier). I would rather buy CH than someone else's if only they made some that more or less resemble the Braganos they used to make.

All the best.


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## Up-n-coming

Out of curiosity I just went in my closet and counted how many pairs of CH I own. 18 pairs! I think they have decent quality for the price of their casual shoes, loafers and drivers. The quality of their higher end dress shoes has definitely fallen off in the last ten years or so. I prefer other brands for dress shoes. All the CH that I own are the more traditional styles. I can't get used to the new styles they are pushing such as the Lunargrand and Zerogrand. What also makes CH attractive to me is that they constantly send me $50 off coupons that are good for sale items as well as full price items. Most of the CH I own were originally approx $200 that I wound up purchasing for around $100 give or take after sale and coupons discounts.

Thank god I still have more shoes than watches. I'd really be broke if it was the other way around.


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## hobefabu

I seem to go between Cole Haan and Johnston & Murphy quite a bit, it depends on the shoe itself but for the most part Cole Hann has been more hit and miss in the last few years and quality is not at it's high level it once was. Now I tend to go back to my closet and pull out older styles and wear them just as I do with Johnston & Murphy, also their quality is not where it once was either.


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## tcpx

Not a fan of CH shoes' styling these days.. Every time I go to their outlet stores, I walk out disappointed without a purchase


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## jfc

well don't shop at the outlets. that's where they unload the stuff they can't sell.


i pretty much swear by cole haan when i'm not at the gym. Can't justify spending more than 3-400 on shoes as I wear them to work and walk alot in them. 

never had any issues w/ support, wingtip and moc designs are very stylish, always getting complements. also, none of the soles of the shoes I have are soley glued, there's always stitching, even in the casual rubber-soled ones.


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## Gunnar_917

Tony how did you go with Jeffery West? See anything you like??


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## tony20009

Gunnar_917 said:


> Tony how did you go with Jeffery West? See anything you like??


Yes, I checked out their website and I like quite a few based on what I see there. They are new to me, I will want to try them on before buying. I see they have a store in New York, so I'll get there eventually.

One pair that I like, I can't imagine that I'd ever wear them. Some of the ones I really liked:










Those green patent leather shoes with paisley snowflakes on them are just callin' my name! Christmas, trendy formal events paired green silks, or even just smart casual events when they "work" with the outfit I'm wearing. Those shoes are going to be fun! I think they come in blue/blurple too.

























I like all those boots. The crocodile ones seem like they are a killer bargain. I have never seen croc or gator footwear so reasonably priced. Plus, I like the more restrained scale pattern on the toe and vamp of the boots shown above. I like the blue suede boots, but I have blue suede shoes, so the boots are more passing fancy than serious consideration. I don't have blue leather boots or shoes, so that's a better choice for me.










I love the Union Jacks above, but I am not English and I doubt I would sport them anywhere but London. Perhaps someday I'll find myself in London at a social event sometime around October 21st or 5th November, but I'm not going to buy those shoes just in case that happens. LOL Moreover, I think were I to wear those shoes, even on those dates, I'd be displaying more patriotism for Britain than even Britons do. LOL



















The shoe above is quite likely the most probable addition to my shoe closet. I don't have any shoes that are tailor made for Halloween. The loafer above is awesome!



















I don't think of myself as a shoe collector, but I do like shoes more than I like watches. Thanks for pointing me to JW! Someone turned me on to Christian Loub. men's shoes recently.

All the best.


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## Gunnar_917

tony20009 said:


> Yes, I checked out their website and I like quite a few based on what I see there. They are new to me, I will want to try them on before buying. I see they have a store in New York, so I'll get there eventually.
> 
> I don't think of myself as a shoe collector, but I do like shoes more than I like watches. Thanks for pointing me to JW! Someone turned me on to Christian Loub. men's shoes recently.
> 
> All the best.


NICE! I admire your shoe style because what you like is something I couldn't pull off - they look cool as hell though.

The NY store is only small and doesn't carry their entire line. I would suggest before popping in ask if they have what you want and if not can they bring them in (give it a couple of weeks). I'm in Oz and the last time I was in NY they suggested I do that next time.

Fit wise I can't speak for their loafers but their other shoes fit true to size (for English shoes). The lasts they are done on are on the skinnier side though.

They are really good shoes - really, really well made and even better once you factor in price (relative to the others in their price point). I like my shoes as well and comparing them to some other ones I have - Loake, Allen Edmonds, Bally (both Scribe line and regular line) I would say they are better than all of them.


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## tony20009

Gunnar_917 said:


> *NICE! I admire your shoe style because what you like is something **I couldn't pull off - they look cool as hell though.*
> 
> The NY store is only small and doesn't carry their entire line. I would suggest before popping in ask if they have what you want and if not can they bring them in (give it a couple of weeks). I'm in Oz and the last time I was in NY they suggested I do that next time.
> 
> Fit wise I can't speak for their loafers but their other shoes fit true to size (for English shoes). The lasts they are done on are on the skinnier side though.
> 
> *They are really good shoes - really, really well made* and even better once you factor in price (*relative to the others in their price point*). I like my shoes as well and *comparing them to some other ones I have - Loake, Allen Edmonds, Bally (both Scribe line and regular line) I would say they are better than all of them.*


It doesn't matter how great your shoes are if you don't accomplish anything in them.
― Martina Boone, _Compulsion _

Thank you for the compliment and for the shopping tips re: the NY store. I'll take your advice.

Blue:
You aren't giving yourself enough credit; you could absolutely pull them off. You're an Aussie. Put on a nice shirt (see below), your Akubra bush hat, a pair of boots or fun shoes and you are good to go.

You may not be accustomed to wearing more liberal shoes, but that's easily changed by just wearing them. An easy way to start is to buy a nice shirt, maybe something colorful from Robert Graham (https://www.google.com/search?q=rob...E4KNNp6UgPgN&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1067&bih=738 and Sport Shirts for Men: Wave Runner Short Sleeve Sport Shirt), or just a form fitting t-shirt, put on a pair of jeans that fit you properly (not the saggy butt or baggy style), a pair of "outrageous" shoes and then head off to a nightclub and have a good time.

Colorful/patterned shirt looks with jeans -- they all will be just fine with any of the shoes I pictured. FWIW, my "run errands" or "chillin' at home" style is exactly what's pictured below.

















Jeans and t-shirts or basic collared shirts -- all these looks work with any of the shoes I mentioned, except the Union Jacks. No two ways about it, the Jacks are "hard to wear" shoes.





























































If you really want Union Jack shoes, try something like the ones below. Unlike Jeffrey West's, they are casual in character, and so slipping them on with just about anything casual will work just fine.










Hopefully, the pics above illustrate to you how jeans are the sartorial "great equalizer." They are so basic that any kind of footwear you want to put on will look great with them. Just remember, once you leave the office, you are dressing for you, not your bosses, clients, colleagues, and so on.

For rock stars and other folks who live professionally in a flamboyant world, those shoes and boots might work as everyday wear shoes. For me and my "white collar" work life, the boots are the only ones I could and would wear to the office. They are all fine for wearing with slacks and a sport jacket in a business casual environment or to professionally oriented social events.

Would you feel awkward wearing, say, any of those boots with jeans at a company picnic? Could you not wear, say the blue boots (either), to a office or team celebratory dinner or luncheon? The black or brown boots wouldn't raise any eyebrows no matter when you wear them; under pants, they look essentially like a brogue shoe, but worn with straight leg jeans or pants, they come into their own as stylish boots that aren't outlandish.

If you like shoe styles like the JWs I pictured, go get a pair, perhaps the laced boots, or if you feel like you want to try a color other than black and brown, try blue shoes/boots that're relatively tame like the two pair I and going to check out. The journey to sartorial fun doesn't have to begin with the most extreme thing you can find, although if you do take the "all in at once" approach, it takes a lot less time to get used to "fun dressing" and choosing outfits because they make you smile rather than because they don't make others raise an eyebrow.

The truth of the matter is that there are going to be "haters." Ignore them; tell them to "talk to the hand," whatever you need to do. Then enjoy your shoes. <winks>

Red:
For me and the way my life and style works, the leather shoes pictured are strictly "occasion" shoes. I might put on the green ones and wear them when I go out to dinner, the theater, or to a party, and certainly, I'd find a reason to wear them to at least one Christmas party. I doubt I'd wear them for mundane errand running, for I don't feel the need to be that stylish for that sort of thing, but I might wear them on those occasions just because I could. After all, they are fun as can be, and I wear what I wear for my own amusement when I'm free of the constraints of conservative, corporate culture.

I can tell you now there's 0.01% chance that circumstances and the stars would align such that I'd end up in a client meeting wearing those green shoes. On the other hand, 0.01% is still better odds than the ones for me being in a client meeting barefoot. LOL

The black, skeleton slipper is definitely a Halloween shoe. I've worn costumes to Halloween parties, but usually I just wear a smoking jacket, tuxedo or tails and a mask of some sort, sometimes just a basic silk one, other times something reminiscent of a Mardi Gras/Carnival style mask. Those slippers will go perfectly with the theme of the event. What attracts me to them is that they do go with the Halloween theme and they aren't terribly pricey (_i.e.,_ they aren't at the top end of what I'm willing to pay for shoes, not that they are, in the absolute, inexpensive).

The other velvet slippers just look like they'd be fun to wear on random casual occasions, mostly with jeans.

Blue:
That's good to see. I'm really psyched about the croc boots. I'm used to seeing croc/alligator shoes and boots at prices well above $1.5K, so you can imagine how hopeful I am about the JWs....

All the best.

I want everyone to wear what they want and mix it in their own way. That, to me, is what is modern.
― Karl Lagerfeld


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## Gunnar_917

Thanks for the above - I just realised that I meant some of the loafers were more in e edgy style that I couldn't pull off.

What at you've put up there is somewhat how I dress anyway. I don't like sagging collar lines. i actually do my own shirt designs - give them to my tailor to make up eg








It is a bad pic for quality but that is Generally what i do - self coloured shirt with colour thrown in to highlight and break it up a bit

as for the shoes, these are the JW's I own (again bad pic due to poor lighting):








And anoter pic








In saying that though I'm more of a jeans, tee shirt and sneakers kinda guy. I do prefer the above but at times it is often too dressy.


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## tony20009

Gunnar_917 said:


> Thanks for the above - I just realised that I meant *some of the loafers were more in e edgy style that I couldn't pull off. *
> 
> ...


YW

Ah...now I understand.

Yes, well, even I can envision only rarefied instances in which I'd wear the moth slippers outside my own home. LOL

BTW, that reminds me...another great way to build up the confidence to wear more "adventurous" stuff is to wear it around the house. That trick worked for me with all sorts of stuff. I think that doing so makes the items become familiar; one gets a sense of how they "work" with other clothing items, and familiar things become easy to wear anytime one wants to.

All the best.

Edit:
BTW, I like your JW shoes. A little flair with the eyelet hole patterns on the toes and sides to distance them from the routine types one often enough sees. Nice. I especially like the Maltese cross, brown brogues and the George boots. I like the shirt too.


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## Gunnar_917

Thanks for the tips

i was thinking that I better get a PP or VC to match the cross on the shoes...


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## tony20009

Gunnar_917 said:


> Thanks for the tips
> 
> i was thinking that I better get a PP or VC to match the cross on the shoes...


YW

Touché

Definitely a VC. Perhaps the Malte model shown below?



































You'll then no doubt have all the Maltese crosses you'll ever need. LOL

All the best.


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## Gunnar_917

I'd go with one of these








Or this


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## vinvin

I have only been wearing Cole Haans for the past two years. Ever since their outlet store opened up about five minutes away from where I live, I have only been buying Cole Haan. I used to be a converse boy, now after two years of deals I have acquired around 20 pairs of Cole Haans bought at an average of 98 dollars a pair. I'm happy with them, they are comfortable, are still in pristine condition after all this time (maybe because I take care of them, I dunno) and look nice imho. Personally I like shoes, I like expensive shoes, but I just can't justify paying more than 300 on something that is in contact with dirt and ground all day long that wears out due to use... On the other hand, I absolutely love looking at girls in heels... so if my girl wants a pair of 1000 dollar heels, she get's em... I just wouldn't spend that kinda money on shoes for myself...


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## tony20009

vinvin said:


> I have only been wearing Cole Haans for the past two years. Ever since their outlet store opened up about five minutes away from where I live, I have only been buying Cole Haan. I used to be a converse boy, now after two years of deals I have acquired around 20 pairs of Cole Haans bought at an average of 98 dollars a pair. I'm happy with them, they are comfortable, are still in pristine condition after all this time (maybe because I take care of them, I dunno) and look nice imho. Personally I like shoes, I like expensive shoes, but *I just can't justify paying more than 300 on something that is in contact with dirt and ground all day long that wears out due to use*... On the other hand, I absolutely love looking at girls in heels... so *if my girl wants a pair of 1000 dollar heels, she get's em*... I just wouldn't spend that kinda money on shoes for myself...


I want to write a book about shoes that's full of footnotes.
― Jarod Kintz, _I Want _

Blue:
That's fine, and I respect that you may feel that way.

FWIW, I've not ever had a pair of leather shoes wear out, not even sneakers. My father has shoes from the 1940s and '50s that haven't worn out. I do tend to take very good care of my "good" shoes,* but I do so because I do one thing that is very detrimental to shoes. I wear nearly all my non-formal wear loafers and oxfords without sock as often without socks as with them. Doing that means I have to clean the inside of the shoes more than the outside. Dead skin cells hold moisture and bacteria, neither of which is particularly good for shoes, so it's important to get that stuff out of the inside.

Generally speaking, if the uppers don't crack or tear, the soles/heels can nearly always be repaired. (There are some soles that can be hard to have repaired/replaced, like the crepe sole on a white buck, but then I don't wear those kinds of shoes all that often.**) Here are some tricks I use and that I believe keep my shoes from becoming fit only for the trash heap:


Clean them every two or three days, even if they don't look dirty, and especially after wearing them in the rain. (Keeping a pair of driving shoes in the car helps, especially in winter.) What does "every other day cleaning consist of? A lightly dampened washcloth wiped over the shoe and a stiff bristled brush scrubbing around the sole where it joins with the uppers (Since I travel a lot, the brush I use most often is a stiff toothbrush, the cheapest one I can find. The ones that are "good" for teeth and gums are generally softer than is most effective for brushing grit/dust out of the crease between the uppers and sole.) I only need to do a full-on washing with soap a couple times a year plus as needed for the one-off occasions when they truly get dirty. 
Never put shoes near a heat source when they are wet, including just after cleaning them. It's hard to keep one's shoes from getting wet; weather happens. It's not hard to do the right thing with them when they get wet. 
Slip rubbers over the shoes when you know you're going to have to wear them in inclement weather. I keep a pair of rubbers in my desk at work, at my parent's house, in the car "just in case." Even so, I can't say I use them every time I could/should, but if rain is falling when I leave the building, I will have them on if I think I'll be walking much outdoors. If you expect to have to wear the same leather shoes before they'll air dry on their own, rubbers are indispensable for keeping the shoes lasting a long time. Good shoes can endure a bit of maltreatment, but not for long if that's the way one makes them "live." Trust me on this; my shoes from high school -- Bass Weejuns and my "nice" Brooks Brothers penny loafers -- are still in good shape, having had the soles/heels replaced several times over the years. 
Shoe trees, or at least a dry wash cloth/hand towel, inside them when they aren't on my feet. 
Resoling or re-heeling them as needed. 
Using polish that won't clog the pores of the leather. 
Never polish shoes without cleaning them first, but also never begin the polishing process until the leather has dried after having been cleaned. 
Don't polish shoes too often. A good shine will generally last for months, depending on circumstances, and especially if you use a wax polish like Kiwi. I just buff the shoes with a cloth or one of those spinning buffers when a shine needs a quick refresh. If I get caught in the rain or step in a puddle, I clean the shoes and re-polish, but otherwise I mostly just buff them. I use that approach because the wax in polishes like Kiwi doesn't go anywhere all that quickly, so it just needs to be re-buffed to restore the shine. Oil and/or water based polishes (creams rather than waxes) don't "hang around" as long on the leather I find. I think they don't re-buff as well because the oil absorbs into the leather instead of remaining accessible for shining on the leather's surface. (Polish Your Shoes Properly - The Shoe Snob Blog) (Waxes (natural) are esters of fat. I suppose if you can collect enough of it, you could use earwax to polish your shoes. LOL It's not terribly different from beeswax, although it's got a lot of "stuff" like skin cells and bacteria in it that probably isn't good for leather in the long run.) 
Use the quick shine places, such as those one finds in airports and train stations, sparingly. Those guys do a nice job and your shoes will look nice. Having them do your shoes frequently (every two weeks or more often) is a sure way to have your shoe uppers cracking eventually. Instead of a very fine pair of shoes lasting a lifetime (30+ years), they'll be cracking in about half that time or sooner. It's not that the guys at the stands don't know what they are doing, it's that they have to do the job in 10 minutes or less, and part of what they have to do is clean the shoe before polishing it. The result is that the leather is damp when the polish goes on top and that's going to eventually cause the leather to rot/crack. 
Buying shoes with stitched on soles, at least for the shoes I intend to wear most often. For me, the shoes I wear most often are the ones I wear to work. (For that, I recommend going with shoes like the Allen Edmonds, Alden, Church's, or Peal shoes, or other makers' shoes that are constructed using the same methods. The brand isn't important; how they are made is. Fine Leather Shoes | How It's Made | Discovery Science) 
Not "fire shining" more than a couple times a year at most. 
Wear an appropriate shoe for a given task. For example, when I'm exercising, I wear sneakers; when I'm not, I don't wear sneakers. In the house, I wear house shoes (something more or less akin to the cloth slippers pictured earlier) or bedroom slippers.






























About the only "good" shoes I have for which I don't follow the guidelines above are things like my "duck boots," Wellingtons, and cloth sneakers that can't be tossed into the washing machine.

(Foot) Notes:
* -- "Good" shoes are, to me, any shoes that I think will be as in style or interesting looking now as they will 20 years from now. "Good" has nothing to do with what I paid for them; it has everything to do with whether I want to be able to wear them and not have to replace them.

** -- Plastic/rubber and crepe soled shoes can be resoled. The issue with getting them resoled is that few cobblers want to be bothered to do so because it takes a lot of work to replace those kinds of soles and what they can expect most customers to pay to have them do it isn't enough for them to undertake doing the job. About the only shoes I know of that just can't really be resoled are the ones where the upper and soles are all one piece of material, such as driving shoes. Even those shearling slippers I pictured above can be resoled, but matching the leather will be a near impossibility.

Red:
You know, women's shoes make no sense to me. Having a daughter whom I spoil as much as I can, I've come to learn quite a lot about women's shoes. But what makes the least sense to me is why women don't demand shoe companies make better quality shoes for them. Spindley heels, near paper thin soles, uppers and straps that will damn near disintegrate if you blow on them too hard....it makes no sense to me. I don't care how cute they make a woman's foot/leg look; most of them are about the biggest wastes of money I can think of and that lots of people daily make.

The darn things are usually as flimsy as a shoe can possibly be and still meet the definition of "shoe," yet they cost as much as a man's far more solidly constructed shoe. Spend $1K on a woman's fancy high heals and she'll have a shoe that _might _survive half a dozen wearings. Spend $500 on a man's shoe that he'd wear on the same occasion as the $1K shoe his wife bought and he'll wear it for years on end, even with the most negligent levels of care.

The only shoes I've ever bought my daughter that seem comparable in quality to a man's shoe are her various flat shoes, riding boots, deck shoes, and her camping/hiking footwear. The rest of them are hardly worth the dye that colors the leather or cloth from which they're made! I will indulge my daughter, but I gripe about it every time. LOL.

All the best.

The stiletto is a feminine weapon that men just don't have.
― Christian .........


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## Gunnar_917

Well put Tony. As a shoe nut it's summed up very well. Good shoes are amazing - you don't have to spend a fortune on shoes for them to be good. If you can shop around 300 is a really good budget - I once managed to get a pair from Bally's scribe line for $250 (RRP is 1200). To be honest I don't see where the cost goes in those shoes. I usually spend between 200-300 on mine and buy them when on special (typically around 30-50% off). 

John Lobb and Edward Green - as amazing as they are, they are also way to expensive


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## hobefabu

I have looked online and checked out a brand called Too Boot New York which I have not had the chance to purchase yet but the appearance is they are well made and I do look forward to purchasing a pair very soon. Also check out a brand called Moreschi which I have owned a few pair and have been very please with the quality, fit and finish so they do bare considering.


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## ccm123

I have several pairs of CH's from he 90's and they are still good. I resole them every 5-8 years or so. Nothing beats quality shoes!


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## Dnic

Check out the cole haan weekender. It's a casual loafer and super comfortable.


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## cwatchman

I'm wearing Cole Haan's. Incredibly comfortable, but squeaks loudly every time I walk on hardwood.


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## ph0zenstond

I have Cole Haan wingtip oxfords and they are aesthetically pleasing...I wouldn't necessarily say they are out of style


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## tony20009

phozenstone said:


> I have Cole Haan wingtip oxfords and they are aesthetically pleasing...I wouldn't necessarily say they are out of style


They are definitely not out of style.

All the best.


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## tony20009

Gunnar_917 said:


> Well put Tony. As a shoe nut it's summed up very well. Good shoes are amazing - you don't have to spend a fortune on shoes for them to be good. If you can shop around 300 is a really good budget - I once managed to get a pair from Bally's scribe line for $250 (RRP is 1200). To be honest I don't see where the cost goes in those shoes. I usually spend between 200-300 on mine and buy them when on special (typically around 30-50% off).
> 
> *John Lobb and Edward Green - as amazing as they are, they are also way to expensive*


There's no question that buying shoes at that price point is, for nearly everyone who buys them, about self indulgence more than anything else. I won't call them "too expensive," but I recognize that it takes more money to buy them than it is necessary to spend to have a very, very high quality pair of shoes that can essentially last a lifetime.

All the best.

Under the present conditions, everything conspires to obscure the basic movement that tends to restore wealth to its function, to gift-giving, to squandering without reciprocation.
― Georges Bataille, _The Accursed Share 1: Consumption_


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## AlphaM911

They are mostly "stylish" shoes now and not so dressy. I have about 9 pairs of Cole Haans and about 7 of them are wingtips. I mostly use them for work or going to dinner.
I'm more of a driving shoe/loafer guy where I can just slip them on. I have Gucci and Ferragamo driving shoes.


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## AlphaM911

I can't edit my post...I wear Allen Edmonds as well for dressier shoes.


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## ElHeat

I have a pair of Louis Vuitton black dress shoes and my Cole Haans get much, much more wear. They make outstanding wingtips and are incredibly comfortable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rony_espana

I'm not from the 70s but I can say that Cole Haan is my absolute favorite brand for dress shoes! Perfect fit every time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hobefabu

At my age I am fortunate enough to have bought many pairs of shoes and have so many to choose from to wear on a daily bases, I don't have to worry about the decline in quality of my most popular brands I have been accustomed to buying ie.. Cole Haan, Johnston&Murphy and Kenneth Cole but I do see what you are faced with and the outlook is not all that bright unless they go back to older designs because what's old is new again.


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## Keadog

I have a few pair of Braganos from the '80s that still look good and wear well. I bought 2 pair of CH loafers in the mid '00s and they were - absolute junk. From reading this thread, I went and bought a few pair of Allen Edmonds and particularly enjoying a pair of driving shoes from them. I would like to try Alden, but no store anywhere near me carries them. I never have to dress up in my job and rarely do outside of work anymore, but it's nice to be ready to dress up if the occasion arises. Earlier in my career I had to attend a lot of formal/semi formal events, but those days are over.
This has been a helpful thread for me.


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## heveymetil

I had a pair of Cole Haan shoes I wore for about 4 years straight, almost everday. Some people said they looked like bowling shoes (because the only fashion the knew was from Kmart and Wally World). Anyway, they wore like iron. The only part that gave way was the rubber sole. I wore holes thru both L and R shoes 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## akshayv

I have heel pain and need arch support for my tired feet. I first wore orthofeet shoes around the house for an hour or two at a t	ime, as suggested. This past weekend I ventured out to work my daughters Girl Scout cookie booths. I was on my feet 2 hours straight and my feet felt great.


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## StrongBad13

I, too, have felt the quality of Cole Haan products have been steadily declining even over the past 5 years. It sounds minor but I’ve noticed most of my newer pairs have developed a squeak- pretty annoying when working in an office environment! I also had a leather briefcase that was a very poor quality with broken buckle and ripped zipper within the first year. 

Recently bought my first pair of Samuel Hubbard’s and am loving them. Super comfortable and soles can be replaced. More of a business casual shoe that can be dressed up if needed.


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## hobefabu

tony20009 said:


> I went shopping yesterday and happened by a Cole Haan store. I've got lots of Cole Haan shoes from the 1970s - 1990s, but none more recently made. I love my old CH shoes, especially the Bragano loafers. Looking at CH's offerings yesterday, I was disappointed. I even checked CH's website later and what I saw there isn't any better. <sigh>
> 
> Do any of you who've been wearing CH shoes for a very long time also feel they just aren't as nice -- stylistically "cool" -- as they used to be? I'm sure CH's shoes these days are well enough made, but they are just boring looking to me these days, and those that aren't dull have "odd" lines. I was looking for loafers, and admittedly, I have a lot of shoes, so "typical" styles and designs don't strike me all that much. Perhaps that's the issue?
> 
> CH's lack of interesting styles isn't that big a deal. Just something I noticed and wondered if others have noticed it too.
> 
> All the best.


I to like the old models but some of the models when they were in partnership with Nike are no longer in production and are highly sought after like the Santa Barbara and others of that caliber. I have been fortunate to find some of these models in brand new old stock and are hard to resist buying.


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## Tom V.

i bought a pair of CH tassel loafers a number of years ago. I finally replaced them with the same thing earlier this year. I don’t think the quality is quite as good, but close enough. I don’ wear them that often anymore, so I am ok with that. On the other hand, while in San Francisco earlier this year, I bought a pair of chukka for 50% off. Gentleman hikers is what I call them. They are well made, comfortable, have a good sole on them. A bargain at the price I paid. My life is not one where I get really dressed up that often. Usually just jeans and a nice shirt. My preference for great footwear would be really nice cowboy boots. Not that living in Colorado has swayed me or anything.

Tom V.


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## johnmichael

I prefer the pinch penny loafers but haven't bought a pair in quite some time. They simply are not worth the money (compared to other brands----especially those hand sewn in Maine) unless you get a "deal" on ebay. They are made in India but, there are still worse shoes out there.


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## hobefabu

I visit flea markets, thrift stores and consignment shops and I continue to find new old stock Cold Haan shoes quite often because I too do not like the new styles.


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## meking

tony20009 said:


> Interesting that you mentioned the fit. Back in the '80s, I knew exactly what size to get based on whether the shoe was Bregano or one of the other lines. I didn't even have to try them on; they always fit perfectly. My old size nines still fit just fine, but the other day, I couldn't have got my foot in a size nine CH without divine intervention. LOL
> 
> TY for sharing your observation.
> 
> All the best.


Must be a consistency/standardization issue these days. Like you, I've found the sizing to be quite different from several other main stream brands.


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## meking

Gunnar_917 said:


> I'm too young to know what the cole haan of old were like. From what I've seen of the current ones I can't say I've liked the finish of them, they feel cheap.
> 
> I have a preference for English shoes generally. Jeffery west I really like for their finish and quality for the price. American shoes I really like Allen Edmonds; I didn't like Alden - they were well made but we're just so boring. Italian shoes are stylistically nice but You also have to treat them that way. Yes I polish my shoes regularly but they just are fragile


Reviving a sleeping thread here, but I agree--they do feel cheap these days.


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## Mr.Sawyer

I used to like Cole Haan, I liked a certain pair so much, I bought another pair just like em in a different color. They had surprisingly good arch support built into. They were made in Italy. Bought approx. 15 or 20 years ago andI still wear em to this day. I pride myself on the care of my clothes and shoes. Todays CH aren't nearly as good, plus I've grown up or should I say have taken my clothing style to the next level or a very higher level. Just like the watches I used to buy like Movado and whatnot, I don't buy on that tier any longer, now I own IWC and Cartier and whatnot. Shoe wise it's Testoni, Magnani, Santoni.
I guess any brand that ends in an i, lol.


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## hobefabu

One thing we care to keep in mind is that all manufacturers of whatever product being made today are not for the 35 and up shopper but for the 35 and down shopper.


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## tony20009

hobefabu said:


> I to like the old models but some of the models when they were in partnership with Nike are no longer in production and are highly sought after like the Santa Barbara and others of that caliber. I have been fortunate to find some of these models in brand new old stock and are hard to resist buying.


FWIW, Braganos predated the Nike partnership.


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## tony20009

Mr.Sawyer said:


> I used to like Cole Haan, I liked a certain pair so much, I bought another pair just like em in a different color. They had surprisingly good arch support built into. They were made in Italy. Bought approx. 15 or 20 years ago andI still wear em to this day. I pride myself on the care of my clothes and shoes. Todays CH aren't nearly as good, plus I've grown up or should I say have taken my clothing style to the next level or a very higher level. Just like the watches I used to buy like Movado and whatnot, I don't buy on that tier any longer, now I own IWC and Cartier and whatnot. Shoe wise it's Testoni, Magnani, Santoni.
> I guess any brand that ends in an i, lol.


Whatever life you've lived so far, all the stages of your past life have come together to make you who you are now.
- Ilchi Lee, _I've Decided to Live 120 Years: The Ancient Secret to Longevity, Vitality, and Life Transformation_

I'm not sure there's a "higher level" to go to from 1980s era Braganos. The standard price for the loafers ranged from $200 to $300, which is about $500-$700 now.

Different styles? Sure. More expensive? Of course, one can nearly always pay more.

As with watches, I choose shoes based on quality, how I plan to use them/why I'm buying them at all, and what they look like, not necessarily in that order. The result is that, also as with my watches, I still have and wear shoes I bought 40 years ago. Indeed, the first two "nice" watches I bought were a Rolex Air King and Cartier Tank, and I still have and wear them, along with many others, one of which is a Movado Eliro.

I wore the Eliro on the flight to a party/event I went to a few weeks back. I wore a long-ago discontinued Patek mounted on a cloth band at the party and tooled around town wearing a very old Flieger. The point: nice old stuff is still nice stuff. Of course, my sartorial tastes and sensibilities are much the same now as they were 40-50 years ago, so If I liked what it looked like then, I still like what it looks like; thus I enjoy wearing my old stuff as long as it's in good working order.

Hell, I still wear my old '80s era classic K-Swiss, Chuck Taylor and Adidas Samba sneakers.

Now that I think about it, the only shoes I've bought that wore out are my deck shoes. Wearing them without socks, the salt water soaking they get sailing, and their being one of my main casual kick-around shoes severely limits their lifespan to two to three summers, max.

All the best.

Mix your old stuff with your new stuff because you're not a 'Johnny Come Lately' to good taste, and good taste never goes out of style.
- Tony20009's parents explaining circumspection and discernment

Unrelated anecdote:
Back in my late 20s, I was on a sailing weekend with some friends and made an "lockerroom" joke within earshot of lady friend who didn't much care for it. She wheeled around to playfully slap me.

I dodged her blow, but doing so was a pyrrhic victory, for in doing so, I lost my footing and fell overboard. LOL

In the water, one of my deck shoes slipped off.

I kept its mate. Lord only knows why. But it turned out to be "fortuitous" that I did, for some years later she bought a boat, and I still had the odd shoe. So I bronzed it and gave it to her as a boat-christening gift when my wife and I joined her and her family on the maiden voyage.

She mounted it on a shelf above hatch giving to the main cabin.

Every so often at one of her affairs, I'll find myself chatting with a relatively new friend of hers who's also sailed with her whereupon I find myself being asked, "Are you bronze shoe 'Tony20009?'"

Everything has purpose. Apparently the purpose for her trying to slap me and my falling overboard was so in years to come, she and I both would have things to laugh about with other people. LOL​


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## tony20009

meking said:


> Reviving a sleeping thread here, but I agree--they do feel cheap these days.


It's kind of you to do so.

I won't deny that it's nice to know someone, you, found one of my old threads revival-worthy. <winks>

All the best.

Every tree in the forest has a story to tell. Some of them were burnt but they endured the fire and got revived; some of them were cut, their barks injured, some people pick up their leaves to make medicines for their sicknesses, birds used their leaves to make their nests, etc. Upon all these, the tree is still tree!
- Israelmore Ayivor, _Shaping the dream_


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