# Zlatoust Diver Watches – the official site of Agat Watch Factory



## Silversen

Friends, I know that many of you are interested in buying an Agat Zlatoust Diver watch.

Here is their site with the page about this famous watch (available in English):
Âîäîëàçíûå ÷àñû

I beg Michael aka Chascomm to update information in the list of links.

Have a nice day, guys,
Silversen


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## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen,

Thank you for the link! I only wish there is a history or support section for the more interesting products for individuals, such as the Zlatoust diver watches and stopwatches; somehow I do not think there would be a lot of relay collectors desperate to find information on their examples!

I know I am nitpicking now, the English on the site can be cleaned up a bit too!


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## roo7

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I'm curious, is the site available all the while or it's recently made available ?

First Vostok is back, now Agat. Thanks for the info :-!


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## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Friends!
I've sent an e-mail to them and asked them to give me more detailed information. And, of course, I pointed out the translation of poor quality.

So, guys, let's look forward to hearing from them.


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## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

How strange. Some years ago (4 or 5, when they still had somewhere a very rough, old-style webpage), i sent them an e-mail to ask if the diver watch was still in production.

The reply was: "no, we don't produce that watch since 30 years"... :think:

It's not clear if that watch is now shown only for historical purpose - but, hey, it is in the "Production" section, and "with different dials available on request" (if the automatic translation is correct).

Anyway, this means that they still have the original castings - probably they were always present in the factory during these years. 
I have a personal opinion about the "reissues" produced during all these years, of course it's easily understandable, so i will not repeat here. There are a lot of old threads.

It would be a super-cool thing if they would produce again a total stainless-steel version with plain dial (as shown in the pic and as it was in origin). |>


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## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> Friends!
> I've sent an e-mail to them and asked them to give me more detailed information. And, of course, I pointed out the translation of poor quality.
> 
> So, guys, let's look forward to hearing from them.


Thanks Silversen, I'd be happy to help if needed. Besides, we do share a good resource of information and knowledge on these watches too; besides, a good web presence would help to redress the balance somewhat, when there's someone out there trying to convince everyone that their's is the real deal! :-d


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## robbra

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

If it will be possible to order direct from the factory I would buy one of the divers watches as knowing it was genuine would make all the difference:-!


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## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

There would certainly be a market for them if the fakes on ebay are any indicator. The franken master usually only fake the most popular watches.

I'd even buy one if the factory is producing them again...even though I have little hope of really wearing it on my 7in wrist. :-d


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## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



cavallino33 said:


> I'd even buy one if the factory is producing them again...


"Again"?

According to archive.org, they were in production already 3 years ago (when the new website was made)...and probably even before. 
I wonder why i never seen a _recent and new_ Zlatoust diver watch (original or "fake") with SS case during these 3 years. Am i blind? Maybe i never found the right place to buy that new version?

And is that "new version" really made in stainless steel? Is the Type-1 movement still in production? Or are (and were) they using Molnija movements? There are a lot of questions. :think: But i'm already expecting the answers.

Anyway, i repeat myself - if now they are finally making a legit reissue, without absurd dials or fishy "1976" documents, i'm happy. |>


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## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



michele said:


> And, if made in stainless steel and without absurd dials or fishy '1976' papers, it would be another step for a new image of the Russian watch industry.


Very true that, Michele. Certainly the industries which used to be on the other side of the political railway track, so to speak, have achieved a lot in absolute terms, but a lot of commercial savvy in the open market is indeed required to allow them to flourish.

In this sense Zlatoust is in a unique situation: people want their watches without even knowing anything about them, thus encouraging an industry making those which are "stylistically inspired" - for want of better words - and also prone to disinformation too.

If the factory can re-launch the series like you said, and promoted correctly, I feel sure that it can make an impact on the market beyond just the established enthusiasts. And please, none of that "Soviet chic" stuff!


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## Silversen

michele said:


> How strange. Some years ago (4 or 5, when they still had somewhere a very rough, old-style webpage), i sent them an e-mail to ask if the diver watch was still in production.
> 
> The reply was: "no, we don't produce that watch since 30 years"... :think:
> 
> It's not clear if that watch is now shown only for historical purpose - but, hey, it is in the "Production" section, and "with different dials available on request" (if the automatic translation is correct).
> 
> Anyway, this means that they still have the original castings - probably they were always present in the factory during these years.
> I have a personal opinion about the "reissues" produced during all these years, of course it's easily understandable, so i will not repeat here. There are a lot of old threads.
> 
> It would be a super-cool thing if they would produce again a total stainless-steel version with plain dial (as shown in the pic and as it was in origin). |>


About Zlatoust:

Friends, in 2009 reading internet media I noticed an article about renewal of producing these watches. Unfortunately, I can`t find the source where I saw this information.

I`ve found the mention of it on the Watch.ru forum:

Translation:

As a result of numerous requests of buyers Zlatoust Watch Factory is renewing production of diver's watches.
The external design will remain the same. The case is of stainless steel, high grade of water resistance, luminous dial in the dark (without radioactive emission).

Dimensions: 79х75х20мм.


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## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Seele said:


> Certainly the industries which used to be on the other side of the political railway track, so to speak, have achieved a lot in absolute terms, but a lot of commercial savvy in the open market is indeed required to allow them to flourish.


100% true. Only a serious commercial policy, since the first step, can allow to avoid misinterpretations and suspects. 
Anyway, the age of the "flea market" (so to speak) is coming to an end, so i hope that new things and a new philosophy will come. Let's wait for news from Zlatoust. |>


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## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> The case is of *stainless steel*, high grade of water resistance, luminous dial in the dark (without radioactive emission).
> 
> Dimensions: 79х75х20мм.


This is music for my ears - at last, a "serious" version. Now those tools will work in the right way. |>

If somebody can post a better picture, it should be possible to verify if the movement is a Type-1, a Molnija or a totally different one.


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## Silversen

michele said:


> This is music for my ears - at last, a "serious" version. Now those tools will work in the right way. |>
> 
> If somebody can post a better picture, it should be possible to verify if the movement is a Type-1, a Molnija or a totally different one.


As I said above, I made a request of information including any possible differences between the old and the new versions, the possibility to make orders straight from the factory and, of course, prices and the way to pay, asked about authorized dealers if any, and promo materials (photos and historic information) if possible.


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## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> As I said above, I made a request of information including any possible differences between the old and the new versions, the possibility to make orders straight from the factory and, of course, prices and the way to pay, asked about authorized dealers if any, and promo materials (photos and historic information) if possible.


I have updated the link in the Articles section. |>


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## Sodiac

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I have one of the Agat stopwatches shown in their nice website (which, by the way, seems to have a good translation to English as far as I can tell). I use it all the time for timing video production, it is always with me on my desk.

It has a nice, loud ticking and a machine turned back, obviously done by hand. It came in a small case with instructions in Russian. It is a useful and working tool for me and much better than a digital stopwatch for my uses in the video production studio.

Also, it runs for a very, very long time on a full windup -- I normally only have to wind it 3-4 turns to get a few hours of on/off timing.

I would love to buy one of the divers if I could, directly from the factory!


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## Chascomm

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> Friends, I know that many of you are interested in buying an Agat Zlatoust Diver watch.
> 
> Here is their site with the page about this famous watch (available in English):
> Âîäîëàçíûå ÷àñû
> 
> I beg Michael aka Chascomm to update information in the list of links.
> 
> Have a nice day, guys,
> Silversen


Thanks for that :-!

Somehow I missed this thread for the last couple of days, but not to worry, Michele has updated the links list.


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## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Colleagues!

I`ve received extremely interesting information from Zlatoust.
I need time to carefully translate it. So, wait a little.


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## Lucidor

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> Colleagues!
> 
> I`ve received extremely interesting information from Zlatoust.
> I need time to carefully translate it. So, wait a little.


What a cliffhanger!


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## JohnQ123

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I'm very curious. I'd be awesome to know that they finally sell a real stainless steal case Zlatoust, not the cheap chrome plated ones.


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## McSteve

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

11 hours - the suspense is unbearable! :think:

;-)


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## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

If they are making them and in Stainless we should try to organize a group buy. :-d


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## Mister Mike

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

With all the money Invicta, Moscow Classic, Parnis and others have been making on the Zlat's image, it's about time the real thing made a comeback and put all the pretenders in their place.


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## blurking

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

if there is a group buy, count me in! Hopefully it will be the full ss case instead of the chromed brass:rodekaart:rodekaart Any indication about the lug width? I am assuming panerai dimensions and thinking 24mm? Nope.. saw the dimensions when i reread the thread. 20mm lugs? Talk about undersized straps.


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## Chascomm

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Mister Mike said:


> With all the money Invicta, Moscow Classic, Parnis and others have been making on the Zlat's image, it's about time the real thing made a comeback and put all the pretenders in their place.


|> Absolutely.

Actually, I'd like to hear the people from Zlatoust give their side of the Invicta story ;-)


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## blurking

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

u mean the 100 storied pieces :roll::roll::roll:


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## pwalsh21

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Here is my request for info from the Agat factory, embedded in their response:

Приветствуем Вас!

Вы писали 31 июля 2010 г.:

_Hello,_

_I hope you can understand English!_

_I am looking for information on ordering your diver's watch. I have always liked the design, but there are so many fake Agat diver's watches on eBay that I have stopped trying to find an original. I have looked at your website, which I found in this forum:_

_https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/zlatoust-diver-watches-official-site-agat-watch-factory-430541.html_

_You have many fans across the world!_

_From your website, it looks like you are again making your diver's watch. Could you please give me information on ordering it, price, shipping, etc.? If not that, maybe a store where I might be able to purchase one? Thank you!_

_Patrick Walsh_
_Foley, Alabama, USA_

Dear Patrick, 
We did not make these watch 40 years.
Have Made only 20 pieces - a repetition of the design 1970
Price - 510 EUR + transport expens

-----
B/R Sergey Fedotov
[email protected]

They also included a nice picture of the watch titled "*Изображение 033-1.jpg*" included below.

Looks like our informant is incorrect. I responded with a recommendation that they produce the watch after all, we'll see if they agree...


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## roo7

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



pwalsh21 said:


> Dear Patrick,
> We did not make these watch 40 years.
> Have Made only 20 pieces - a repetition of the design 1970
> Price - 510 EUR + transport expens


Wow for 510EUR. :think:

I guess with the current cost of materials and manufacturing, the price of the Zlatoust Diver will bound to raise. :-(


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## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

So much want!

but only 20 pieces and at $510 euros. o| For a watch I probably couldn't wear anyway. o|


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## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

From where I stand, Zlatoust would not be doing themselves justice by trying to get into that "limited edition" business; it would never make any impact on the market, and would not do anything to stem the flood of imitations. In fact it would even encourage people to buy the imitations instead.

If I were Zlatoust, I would seriously consider this approach:

Work on publicity wisely, to assert its authenticity, as the original. Then work on the tooling and manufacturing resources so that they can indeed be produced economically, so that they can be priced competitively, at about the Invicta "Russian Diver" level. Also establish a distribution network; can be quite exclusive but they need to be out there.


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## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Yeah I imagine a good portion of that price is just capitalizing on the "only 20 pieces" exclusivity. I know it takes a lot of steel but theres nothing incredibly complex about the case and I don't know what movement they are using but I doubt it's anything elaborate there either.


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## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

cavallino33,

I think you are right in thinking that Zlatoust is trying to go that "exclusivity" route. When you are trying to fight imitations while having been hibernating for an extended period of time, it's definitely the wrong approach.


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## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



cavallino33 said:


> Yeah I imagine a good portion of that price is just capitalizing on the "only 20 pieces" exclusivity. I know it takes a lot of steel but theres nothing incredibly complex about the case and I don't know what movement they are using but I doubt it's anything elaborate there either.


Note that the watch in the pic (marked 192-ChS) seems based on the (early?) 60mm version with flatter bezel.

Last original versions, and early brass-made versions with fishy '1976' document (both commonly referred as 191-ChS), have instead a smaller 58 mm case with domed bezel. See the comparison here:

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/zlatoustovsky-58-mm-vs-reissue-third-article-365660.html

My guess is that they still had a small old stock of 1st-generation cases (and movements too?). If those cases were produced in recent times, we would see much more than 20 watches. Unless they can't or they don't want (for unknown reasons) to produce that watch.

As result, unfortunately, we have just two considerations:

-that amazing watch will never be produced again in its original layout
-the origin of the reissues with fake "1976" papers is still unknown, anyway they are much less present than before on Ebay (lots of Invicta instead!)

About the hypothesis that they made only 20 pieces (in 3 years!) just for reasons of exclusivity, i have serious doubts. :think:


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## pwalsh21

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Seele said:


> From where I stand, Zlatoust would not be doing themselves justice by trying to get into that "limited edition" business; it would never make any impact on the market, and would not do anything to stem the flood of imitations. In fact it would even encourage people to buy the imitations instead.


I suppose the same could be said for most "limited editions" of watches. However, it seems that "limited edition" means there's an UNlimited edition, i.e., a production version. Making a limited edition of a watch not in current production, that wasn't popular when IN production, and that only gained prominence when manufactured by another firm, is foolish in my opinion. Get your name out there as the ORIGINAL Russian/Soviet diver and you'll get customers. I hope Agat figures this out.


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## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Michele,

I do hope you are right; I was thinking about the worst case scenario of course. The ball is on the Zlatoust boys' court!


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## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

They don't currently make any other wristwatches do they?

Perhaps they are simply not interested in getting into the wrist watch business and these 20 watches are more of a promotional/publicity effort i.e. a halo product to generate interest in the company as a whole. To be honest given the current difficulties of nearly every Russian watch company I can't imagine why they'd want to enter the highly competitive market as much a I wish they would.


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## Silversen

Hi, Hello, Howdy, G`day, Hola, and finally Ciao to all!
Please, don't be angry with me. I know that waiting is a very hard work. There are only two things to blame: incredibly hot weather in Russia and that I have had to translate an article from Russian newspaper about real Zlatoust watches history, Invicta and Arnie The Terminator and how that all is tied.

So, here you are.

*Exclusively for WUS Russian Watches Forum from the management of ZChZ "Agat": *

Silversen: How many employees are working at you factory:
ZChZ: 500

Silversen: How successful is your factory now in the time of the world crisis?
ZChZ: The main our product is switches for electric stoves / cookers. The sales volumes are even higher than the pre-crisis ones. Sales of timers and watches have slightly decreased because of our competitors from Chine. The sales of stopwatches haven't changed.

Silversen: How many watches and stopwatches do you produce and where do you sell them?
ZChZ: We produce 50 thousand stopwatches a year. They go to 12 countries: India, China, Canada, Germany, Greece, Serbia, Taiwan, Great Britain, etc. As for the modern version of our famous Zlatoust Russian Diver watches, we have yet produced 20 timepieces and are going to make another 50. The look of them and the dimensions are absolutely identical to our famous old model. As for the movement, we decided to use modern hand wound Vostok 17 jewels movement which is of more quality than our old one.

Silversen: Is it possible to buy a diver watch straight from the factory? If yes, how much is it? Are there any authorized dealers or sellers on the Internet where a person can buy your watch from? 
ZChZ: Yes, anybody can buy directly from our site. The price for our diver watches is 20.000 RUR, if you buy 3 timepieces - 18.000 RUR each. There are no other authorized resources to buy from.
Another news from our factory: this year we decided to produce pocket watches in retro pre-WWII style. Our plant had produced this type of watches before the production of them was transferred to Chelyabinsk "Molnija".

Silversen: What are signs showing that a watch is a fake Zlatoust Diver?
ZChZ: They are marked with different logos and inscriptions kind of "ИМФ СССР". As you know the dial of old Zlatoust Russian Divers is functionally clean and doesn't bear any inscriptions. We use special rubberized fabric straps whereas the fakes are with leather ones. The case of fakes is of chrome-plated brass or of simple steel. We have got many complaints that these watches become rusty in water. The documents which these fakes are provided with say that they are made at our plant. So, beware of them.

Silversen: What can you say about Invicta and their Russian Diver watches?
ZChZ: I can say that Invicta has no relation to real Zlatoust Russian Diver watches and never had in the past. All their legend about their cooperation with us is absolutely groundless and not confirmed with any documents.

Note from Silversen: see translated article "Real History Behind Famous Zlatoust Diver Watches or Enough of Your Lies, Mr Invicta" in a special thread: https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/real...atches-enough-your-lie-mr-invicta-432320.html


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## roo7

Thank you Silversen for this interview.

Finally, we heard from the horse's mouth on the relation with Invicta.

20.000 RUR is still 500 EUR..


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## blurking

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

500 euros... ouch. o|o|


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## erictrumpet

Hi all. This is my first post to the Russian forum. I am very excited about these developments! I would love to own a reissue of this watch. The box pictured with it is absolutely perfect and makes me want it even more than just seeing the watch itself. I traveled to Russia last year and the crappy watches made for tourists are pathetic. I have an Invicta RD, and of course did not wear it to Russia! (There's no connection. Glad to hear it from the horse's mouth, but is anyone really surprised?) Anyway, I enjoy the look so I'd be thrilled to replace my Invicta RD with the real deal. Thanks to everyone involved in this, and if a group buy is organized, count me in 

Eric.


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## Chascomm

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Vitaly, thank you very much for your efforts. It is good to see some clear facts finally emerge. Now if I can only find a delicate way of telling the Invictistas... :-x

So Agat are going with Vostok? Good choice, given the absence of a genuine oversized Russian watch movement. So it is a marriage of Russian divers.

I guess there is a 2409A in this one too:








Isn't that a great looking pocket watch? I like the way they have used the stopwatch case, crown and pendant to give it that simple, clean style, and with a dial to match.


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## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Chascomm said:


> I guess there is a 2409A in this one too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that a great looking pocket watch? I like the way they have used the stopwatch case, crown and pendant to give it that simple, clean style, and with a dial to match.


However, it is also possible to use the Maktime/Poljot 3105, bigger and with off-center seconds, but it is probably more expensive. They could make it later however, as more expensive alternative. The Vostok movement is now the only available choice for this watch, if the production will be extended. And, why not...a chrono version with 3133 would be my definitive cup of tea.

The use of the stopwatch case is smart and intelligent, as they are usually well finished. Agat could also use some other designs for the dial, taking inspiration from the its old 6-seconds stopwatches. We could help them about that.

I would complete the new pocket watch with a nice wooden box. :-! If they will continue the production, the Zlatoust factory is candidate to be the only producer of pocket watches in Russia. That would be an outstanding thing, because they would fill a bad empty place left by Molnija. |>


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## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Anyone know how much the pocket watch is?

If the quality is comparable to their stop watches then the finish is a good bit better than the end of the last modern Molnijas.


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## Silversen

cavallino33 said:


> Anyone know how much the pocket watch is?
> 
> If the quality is comparable to their stop watches then the finish is a good bit better than the end of the last modern Molnijas.


Don`t worry, Cavallino. I`ll ask about it. When I get this information I`ll post it here.


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## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> Don`t worry, Cavallino. I`ll ask about it. When I get this information I`ll post it here.


:-d Thank you.


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## Silversen

cavallino33 said:


> :-d Thank you.


As for the price for the Agat pocket watch, it is about 20.000 RUR each. There are discounts for wholesale purchase. For example, when buying from 3 to 6 timepieces your discount will be 10%. If the purchase is from 6 to 10 - 25%.


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## robbra

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

At around £420 I would hope it is a LOT better finished than a Molinja.
Maybe with the prices so far they aren't very interested in watch production. I couldn't afford £500 for a diver so that's put on hold.


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## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Thanks, still pretty pricey. At least there someone making a decent Russian pocket watch though.

It's too much for me though. I don't use pocket watches enough to spend more than $100 or so.


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## Silversen

cavallino33 said:


> Thanks, still pretty pricey. At least there someone making a decent Russian pocket watch though.
> 
> It's too much for me though. I don't use pocket watches enough to spend more than $100 or so.


I`m with you here.


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## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



> As for the price for the Agat pocket watch, it is about 20.000 RUR each. There are discounts for wholesale purchase. For example, when buying from 3 to 6 timepieces your discount will be 10%. If the purchase is from 6 to 10 - 25%.


20.000 RUR. That's € 500,00 - $ 670,00 for a standard $30 Agat stopwatch case with a standard Vostok 2409 inside. That's one of the craziest things ever seen in my life.

Unless i'm blind and the watch is made with precious metals.

I guess that very few people will take advantage of those discounts. How to waste a good opportunity. <|<|<|


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## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



michele said:


> 20.000 RUR. That's € 500,00 - $ 670,00 for a standard $30 Agat stopwatch case with a standard Vostok 2409 inside. That's one of the craziest things ever seen in my life.


Sounds even worse when you put it that way. :-d

It certainly doesn't look like or have the presence of a nearly $700 watch.


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## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Errata corrige: i have received this morning a mail from "agatfactory" (they joined to the forum?).

The price for their stopwatch is Euro 48,00. That's much more acceptable. :-!


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## Silversen

michele said:


> Errata corrige: i have received this morning a mail from "agatfactory" (they joined to the forum?).
> 
> The price for their stopwatch is Euro 48,00. That's much more acceptable. :-!


That`s far better. I guess Mr Fedotov, the assistant director, stated the abovementioned price pocket watches by mistake. That's was the human factor caused by the extreme hot weather. By the way, on Friday I e-mailed them asking for information about serial codes and some other historic information and maybe photos or copies of documents about their diver watches. So, I`m looking forward to hear from them.


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## agatfactory

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Price pocket watch Agat -48EUR


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## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

48 euros its much more the price I imagined. :-!


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## roo7

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



agatfactory said:


> Price pocket watch Agat -48EUR


How about the Zlatoust Diver 191-ЧС ?


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## Vaurien

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



agatfactory said:


> Price pocket watch Agat -48EUR


Wellcome on this Forum! :-!


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## sci

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



vaurien said:


> wellcome on this forum! :-!


+1 |>


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## Silversen

roo7 said:


> How about the Zlatoust Diver 191-ЧС ?


The price for the new 192-ChS is stated in this thread below.


----------



## Niccolo

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



vaurien said:


> welcome on this forum! :-!


 +1


----------



## SergeiMironovichKirov

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



agatfactory said:


> Price pocket watch Agat -48EUR


agatfactory, добро пожаловать на форум! Спасибо за информацию о цене карманных часов!

(agatfactory, welcome to the forum! Thank you for the information on the price of the pocket watch!)


----------



## Silversen

Vaurien said:


> Wellcome on this Forum! :-!


Dear Anna, our honorable moderators and other colleagues!

If the staff of *Zlatoust Watch Factory "Agat"* joined our forum :-! under the name of *Agatfactory*, evidently I should introduce you the person representing the factory here.

So, meet *Mr Fedotov* (full name: Сергей Иванович Федотов - Sergey Ivanovich Fedotov), General Director Assistant, the Chief of Marketing and External Economical Relations Department. 

Now he himself can give important information or use me as voluntary help. Of course, as a consequence now you can send him a PM. ;-)


----------



## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Welcome from me too, i hope we will find useful informations about those watches. |>


----------



## Silversen

Silversen said:


> That`s far better. I guess Mr Fedotov, the assistant director, stated the abovementioned price pocket watches by mistake. That's was the human factor caused by the extreme hot weather. By the way, on Friday I e-mailed them asking for information about serial codes and some other historic information and maybe photos or copies of documents about their diver watches. So, I`m looking forward to hear from them.


Friends, Mr Fedotov promised in his e-mail to me to send some more interesting information about their watches when he will return from his business trip to Chelyabinsk. So, stay tuned! ;-)


----------



## Silversen

Silversen said:


> Friends, Mr Fedotov promised in his e-mail to me to send some more interesting information about their watches when he will return from his business trip to Chelyabinsk. So, stay tuned! ;-)


Guys, there is a good news from Zlatoust. I`ve received it from Mr Fedotov.

At present the Zlatoust watchmakers are examining the possibility of producing a new, smaller, 50 mm diameter diver watch and the price of this watch naturally will be lower.

There is some additional information on the history of the Zlatoust diver watches. 
See https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/real...atches-enough-your-lie-mr-invicta-432320.html


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen,

Good news indeed!

Knowing how Zlatoust was in a situation to have to use an existing movement first time round, I do not think the purists among us would complain if the new version does not house a Type One movement, as long as it is a good quality, tough-as-nails hand-wind by a Russian maker. Slava 2409, Vostok 2409, Raketa 2609... all work for me :-!

Please let Mr Fedotov be aware of the Invicta situation: what the Zlatoust boys need to do is beyond making watches, beyond selling them to make a profit: it is about reclaiming their rights to their own designs, and this takes careful strategy and commercial savvy too. I wish them the best!


----------



## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> Guys, there is a good news from Zlatoust. I`ve received it from Mr Fedotov.
> 
> At present the Zlatoust watchmakers are examining the possibility of producing a new, smaller, 50 mm diameter diver watch and the price of this watch naturally will be lower.
> 
> There is some additional information on the history of the Zlatoust diver watches.
> See https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/real...atches-enough-your-lie-mr-invicta-432320.html


That would be great. I might be able to get away with wearing a 50mm watch now and then. :-d


----------



## avatar1

Any news on the 50mm project..?


----------



## Silversen

avatar1 said:


> Any news on the 50mm project..?


Wait a lot more! Be patient!
As far as I know the work is in full swing.


----------



## avatar1

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> Wait a lot more! Be patient!


I'll try.


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Mr Fedotov told me in his e-mail several days ago that an art council will take place soon where the managment and technologists of the ZChZ must choose a variant of the case for the new watch and discuss new design style of the dial.

I know a little more but I can`t speak about it.


----------



## roo7

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Saw this link on another forum looks like they were engaged for the Zlatoust Diver photo shoot.










ÐŸÑ€ÐµÐ´Ð¼ÐµÑ‚Ð½Ð°Ñ� Ñ„Ð¾Ñ‚Ð¾Ñ�ÑŠÐµÐ¼ÐºÐ° Ð½Ð°Ñ€ÑƒÑ‡Ð½Ñ‹Ñ&#8230; Ð²Ð¾Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð°Ð·Ð½Ñ‹Ñ&#8230; Ñ‡Ð°Ñ�Ð¾Ð² 192 Ð§Ð¡. Ð¤Ð¾Ñ‚Ð¾ÑƒÑ�Ð»ÑƒÐ³Ð¸. ÐŸÐ¾Ñ€Ñ‚Ñ„Ð¾Ð»Ð¸Ð¾. Ð.ÐºÑ�Ñ‚Ñ€Ð¸Ð¼ Ð"Ð¸Ð·Ð°Ð¹Ð½ Ð¡Ñ‚ÑƒÐ´Ð¸Ñ� - Ñ€Ð°Ð·Ñ€Ð°Ð±Ð¾Ñ‚ÐºÐ° Ð»Ð¾Ð³Ð¾Ñ‚Ð¸Ð¿Ð°, Ñ„Ð¸Ñ€Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾ Ñ�Ñ‚

Now the box from this photo looks familiar.








Pic from pwalsh21's earlier post .


----------



## roo7

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Another article when I googled for 192-ЧС

http://mediazavod.ru/articles/89612


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

With my background in industrial design I wish I were there! :-(


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## nht

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



roo7 said:


> ÐŸÑ€ÐµÐ´Ð¼ÐµÑ‚Ð½Ð°Ñ� Ñ„Ð¾Ñ‚Ð¾Ñ�ÑŠÐµÐ¼ÐºÐ° Ð½Ð°Ñ€ÑƒÑ‡Ð½Ñ‹Ñ&#8230; Ð²Ð¾Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð°Ð·Ð½Ñ‹Ñ&#8230; Ñ‡Ð°Ñ�Ð¾Ð² 192 Ð§Ð¡. Ð¤Ð¾Ñ‚Ð¾ÑƒÑ�Ð»ÑƒÐ³Ð¸. ÐŸÐ¾Ñ€Ñ‚Ñ„Ð¾Ð»Ð¸Ð¾. Ð.ÐºÑ�Ñ‚Ñ€Ð¸Ð¼ Ð"Ð¸Ð·Ð°Ð¹Ð½ Ð¡Ñ‚ÑƒÐ´Ð¸Ñ� - Ñ€Ð°Ð·Ñ€Ð°Ð±Ð¾Ñ‚ÐºÐ° Ð»Ð¾Ð³Ð¾Ñ‚Ð¸Ð¿Ð°, Ñ„Ð¸Ñ€Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾ Ñ�Ñ‚


Thanks ! :-!

Another pic (from the same site), but that doesn't appear in the article ...


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## Silversen

roo7 said:


> Another article when I googled for 192-ЧС
> 
> Медиа Завод - Челябинск outside - Челябинск, Златоуст, Имидж, Импорт, Фальсификация, Бренд


This link goes to that same article which I translated and posted here: 
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/real...atches-enough-your-lie-mr-invicta-432320.html


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Friends!

I have some information on new 50mm Zlatoust dive watches.

The first style line of new watches will be classical Soviet one with sterile dial. The crown is expected at two o'clock.
The basic movement is Vostok 2409. After my question about using the other movements from Tchistopol or even from Moscow (I mean Poljot / Maktime 31mm) Mr Fedotov said: first of all we will make a lot on Vostok 2415.

The expected price is between 10 and 12 thousand rubles (10000-12000 RUR)

That's not all. I must say you that another two style lines in the new case are expected from Zlatoust. It so happened that yours truly took part in creating these two lines as a designer.
I can't show you my sketches which I have sent them because the management will decide on them only on Tuesday 21 on which ones from them will be better to produce first, which will go later and which never go into production at all. Now I know that Director General approved some versions. All the watches from both project lines are ones for active people with dial designs of different feature intensity from simple to very dynamic.

The first line under the project name «Агат Златоуст Русский Водолаз» (Agat Zlatoust Russian Diver) is a line of modern dive watches developing old Soviet Navy Zlatoust classical style but from new perspective.

The other line under the project name « Агат Златоуст Касатка» (Agat Zlatoust Kasatka, which means Killer Whale) is supposed to supplement the Russian Diver style line and has some new design features which there can't be found in the style of the Russian Divers.

These tow lines are designed to attract more young active people then the dive watches with classical Soviet Zlatoust dive ascetic style.

Maybe when the first 50mm new divers with classical Soviet design appears in production and Mr Fedotov will let me have some photos for posting them here on the forum, I'll make a new thread and together with those photos I will show you some of my sketches.

When I asked Mr Fedotov about possibility of using all the Russian movements available from Tchistopol and MakTime I informed him that after sending them all of my designs on the dive watches I began working on the design of a new line of everyday and dress watches and have already found a very interesting and attractive conception of them. I see them with all the types of automatic Vostoks and 31mm caliber from Maktime.

The time when the first classical Soviet style dive watches isn't known yet, but Mr Fedotov said he will inform me and I accordingly will inform you. I can speculate that we could see them into production before Xmass, but of course it`s only my speculations.

So let`s be patient and wait next news from Zlatoust

PS:
Also I must tell you about wholesale discounts on the dive watches, offered by the factory:
the purchase 3 to 6 timepieces - 10% discount;
6 to 10 - 15%;
10 and more - 25%;

and on the discounts for the pocket watches (which many of you have already seen above):
3 to 6 timepieces - 10%;
6 to 10 timepieces - 25%;


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen,

Thank you for the updateand good news; makes me want to re-start my design studio again after many years in hiatus!


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## Niccolo

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen, thanks for the good news! Very interesting :-!


----------



## robbra

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Good news on three fronts.
Price at around £220
Good for Vostok who seem to be supplying movements to many manufacturers
Good for Zlatoust

Win Win Win

:-!


----------



## Vaurien

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Thank you, Silversen, for good news; and поздравить Вас 
congratulations for your ideas that will become a true watch! :-!


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I really hope that those new watches won`t dissappoint you. 
I believe that the Russian industry will revive like Phoenix from its ashes.
But we must do much for that goal.


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## Silversen

I decided to show you schematic configurations of the dials on my concept Agat Zlatoust dive watches.

I’d like to dwell on one dial feature particularly.
You see on the dial the inscription: >100m (more than 100 meters)

You all know that all the Zlatoust dive watches are especially made for professional diving purposes. When working on their designs I was asked to make an inscription only 100m. Then I had to object to it. Perhaps you understand why. It’s a Soviet tradition either to make inscriptions with real or reasonable figures or to even lower them.

Real experienced divers and competent people know that a diver in a "soft" or ambient pressure diving suit can’t swim deeper than 40 meters deep. 
Only wearing a "hard" atmospheric pressure diving suit a diver can be at the depths deeper than 40 meters. 

In 1991 two Soviet Navy divers subjugating the depth of 500 meters in special atmospheric pressure diving suits were decorated with Hero of the Soviet Union order.

In 2006 a diver of US Navy subjugated in an experimental atmospheric pressure diving suit the depth of 610 meters.

By the way, the depth of 600 m is a maximum depth for Russian atomic underwater strategic missile carriers, which are the deepest among battle submarines. Only especially designed research bathyscaphes can go deeper.

We see many Swiss dive watches having on the dial figures bigger than 300 m. Why do the Swiss manufacturers make inscriptions showing unrealistic water resistance figures? You know it as well as me – marketing and advertising.

The Soviet and now Russian manufacturers have never made any unrealistic inscriptions because it is prohibited according to the law obliging all the manufacturers to provide real information which doesn’t lead the buyer astray.

The inscription “100m” would be reasonable and conservative but it looks absolutely hilarious for modern buyers. I said in my e-mail to the Zlatoust management if the watch is suitable for professional diving the inscription “>100m” would be absolutely true on one hand and on the other hand will look very well as compared with popular dive watches with figures bigger than 300 m water resistance. The management of the factory agreed with this decision, because they themselves wanted to find a decision like this.


----------



## Oldheritage

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Nice looking dials, I'm looking forward to hearing more about these :-!


----------



## cavallino33

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

+1

I'm really looking forward to this. There isn't really any new true Russian dive watches on the market right now. I always like to buy Russian watches when possible but when it comes to divers I've had to look elsewhere.


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## Niccolo

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I like the shark tooth indices which also retain the 01, 03, 05, 07, 09, 11 numbers like the original. I hope the management choose one of those.

Will these watches come with super bright lume? I hope so!

As for watches with high depth ratings I agree they're just marketing, however the original Zlatoust was a professional diving watch, and real pro diving watches such as the Seiko shrouded pro diver watches (known as the Tuna by enthusiasts) are really tested to ridiculous depts (600m to 1000m). And also some of Seiko's cheaper diver watches like the Monster and 007 are ISO certified divers to 200m.


----------



## robbra

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I have asked several people here and they all thought that " >100m " meant up to 100m not more than.
I think there is the possibilty of a misunderstanding here.
Why not test it to say 200m and if it passes put that on the dial?
As is often said, "don't be slow in coming forward"
I think it is a case of making sure that if you have a good product that it stands out from the crowd and doesn't hold back in saying how good it is.
I like dial 13 but would prefer white on a black dial.
Good luck
Rob
PS. this is not meant to be a criticism, just my thoughts


----------



## avatar1

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



robbra said:


> I have asked several people here and they all thought that " >100m " meant up to 100m not more than.


Well, that's more of an educational problem...:roll:


----------



## robbra

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



avatar1 said:


> Well, that's more of an educational problem...:roll:


Many thanks for the trite comment but can't you see that therein lies a problem? Not everyone is as clever as you!


----------



## avatar1

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



robbra said:


> Many thanks for the trite comment but can't you see that therein lies a problem? Not everyone is as clever as you!


The symbols "<" and ">" have been used for thousands of years, so please don't hold me responsible for the lack of understanding.

Anyway - how 'bout "100+ m"?


----------



## sci

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I think when Amphibia is rated 200m, it is mandatory to test the real resistance and to put that number. Whatever relations you put around 100m, the people will see only *100*, while every entry level diver is rated 200m. For me the target should be to have a concrete number on the dial, definitely bigger than 200.


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## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Guys, thanks for your thoughts. I think they`re very useful.
Be sure that all your thoughts we will discuss. Now we have time to think over them and make corrections.

If the inscription even being vell thought over is still disputable, it means it must be changed.

I personally like the idea "100+" and am going to formulate this as an offer accompanied improved design versions. Or let them put a real tested rating of water resistance. Thanks, avatar1!

Robbra, concerning the dials: these are just dial configurations, not finished dials.
I may not show full color versions because they`re under consideration. Furthermore, I`d like to keep you in suspense because those dial configurations give you something but not all and still there will be an intrigue.
Sorry, I`m an intriguer!


----------



## Niccolo

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Just to clarify on my previous post, I understand the new Zlatoust diver watches are not meant to be professional dive watches, and getting an ISO certification for a watch that is going to be produced in low numbers (compared to Seiko's watches) is not plauseable. Both because of cost, and because it would entail a redesign that would make it too different visually from the original Zlatoust. My point was that while I agree most ratings are marketing ploys, in a few cases they are not.

As for the >100 or 100+ I don't mind the > or +, and think they add a bit of intrigue (I can already imagine people trying to test the watches), however I think they would be confusing for some. Also when you have the Vostok Amphibia rated at 200m and most modern entry level dive _style_ watches rated at 200m too, I think 100m is too low.

Link to French dive website that has testimonials from real divers who dived with the Amphibia Google Tradutor

Link to another French dive site with a summary of results of tests conducted on various dive watches, with some surprising results Google Tradutor

Wiki explaining ISO for Water Resistant watches and Dive watches suitable for scuba diving Water Resistant mark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Very interesting links! 
Thanks, Mario!

I hope that the manufacturer, ZChZ, will continue the tradition of old Soviet Navy dive watches and will be making real indestructible dive watches suitable for diving within 300 meters depth.

I consider that the inscription ">100 M" or "100+M" means "a watch for diving". It was a surprise for my that so many western people have so low knowledge in mathematics. The inscription ">100 M" is clearly understood by any average educated Russian person.

Please, don't forget: the manufacturer wants to single out its products from those of other producers. In addition, an inscription like this is an attempt to follow the old Soviet tradition of conservative understating of real ratings. Of course, I'd like to see real data of diving tests.

On the other hand, when formulating the covering e-mail to the designs, I asked the management of ZChZ:
How many people of all dive watches buyers really go diving? 
How much time do those who buy dive watches and really go diving spend underwater?
How many of them are really professional divers going deeper than 40 meters deep?

All the answers say that making a pure and only dive watch like their old Soviet Zlatoust Diver means to narrow the marketing segment. 
For example, how many car producers now are making real professional off-road vehicles? Less and less with every year.

So, my thoughts are: they should produce real Russian watches for active life-style with qualities of real dive watches with their indestructibility from conservative looking like Zlatoust Soviet Navy dive watches to absolutely new nice, stylish, and attractive-looking ones which can be worn as everyday watches and even as dress watches.


----------



## Nalu

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I think most people understand the mathematical meaning of >100m. The problem comes in when the convention (and possibly the ISO standard - I will check) on dive watches is to list the rated depth *limit* on the watch. In this case, there is no limit because >100m is not a defined number. It is more useful, IMO to list the maximum depth to which the watch is engineered to function.

On a side note, the depth record for saturation dives is 701m. Open and closed circuit dives have been made to over 300m. All of a sudden, 1000m doesn't seem so unreasonable or "only marketing" when you're talking about a piece of life support equipment in a very dangerous environment.

As for the dials above, I find the numbers on many of them to be too small to be useful on a dive watch, although this will be dependent on the size of the watch of course). I don't think the hands are good for a modern diver either, but will have to look at the drawings some more. I have a few other points to make, but need to look at them all and they are loading very slowly just now.


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Nalu, your thoughts looks reasonable but ...

On the dial designs:
When creating the designs I made two comparison collages for the manufacturer where currently produced Swiss and Japan dive watches, including Rolex, Omega, Seiko, etc. were placed together with my Zlatoust concepts. The dials on most of my concepts are not any worse, and many - even better. Most currently produced watches suitable for divers are compromises between style and functionality and you know it not worse than me. The old 60mm Zlatoust Soviet Navy diver is IMO an uncompromised looking dive watch but its look and dimension isn't for everyday wear if you don't look like Iron Arny.

My thoughts are that the manufacturer should produce a line of uncompromised watches like the reissue of old 60mm diameter Zlatoust Soviet Navy Diver and new 50mm diameter version with that classical design. My concepts technologically exercised in the same new Zlatoust 50mm case but their dials will be more designed for everyday use for people leading active life-style. In my previous post I asked some questions you can answer. I see Zlatoust Watch Factory as a successful company making watches for every occasion not only for diving.

As for the ISO standardization, it can't prevent some Swiss watch producers from making lying inscriptions. On the old Zlatoust Soviet Navy Diver and its current reissue there is no inscription with water resistance rating at all. And on the dial of the new 50mm classical Zlatoust dive design you won't see any inscription about water resistance. Does absence of this inscription make them less suitable for divers?

>100m is not a defined number? Very good! Creating my designs I wrote the manufacturer, if you're sure your watches are good for professional diving, make ">100M" (or "100+M). Let people argue about it and divers-enthusiasts test them. It's very good for the manufacturer when people are debating and discussing about its products, isn't it?


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen,

While what you said regarding the dial marking and the lack of ISO certification make sense, I have a feeling that it might not necessarily help with Zlatoust's cause.

As individuals, we can be smart, wise, well-informed, and able to make our own decisions. But as a group, we can be the exact opposite! Back then, Rolex did not have to get all their Oyster watches COSC certified but they did: having "certified chronometer" spelt out on the dial helped immensely to build up a reputation among the general public, but those in the know would not care if the marking is there or not. Same thing for Invicta's "Russian Divers": I think Zlatoust should aim at building up its street cred among the general public as a superior product on their _own terms_, which means markings with big WR numbers, third-party endorsements (such as ISO certification) and such things.

The real divers would not care about these markings, but without them, these watches would only be known to the selected few, the name spread through word of mouth among peers, and Invicta can carry on selling "original and superior products" because they have bigger WR numbers on their dials.


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Seele, I can't argue with your position because it is well-grounded and realistic. Here I'm designer for the manufacturer and am trying to make the manufacturer's initial wish better looking. I've already sent them an e-mail with my correction: "100+m or real tested WR". The manufacturer must decide.

My hesitations are that if they put a definite WR it would be too typical. As you say specialists know very well the qualities of old and current produced watches as well as new 50mm ones will be (I believe) from Zlatoust. So, these watches are watches for competent people, not for all. But my new concepts are watches based on new 50mm case for more wide range of occasions. They are expected to be as a multi-role attraction to those who are newbies into diving and never had any Zlatoust watches before finding them "too special" but for those who are real experienced divers these new ones being not so extremely specialized are additional offer as everyday watch with additional quilities near to professional ones. Creating these concepts I kept another two ideas in my mind: these watches must look more expensive than they cost in reality and the second idea they mustn't compete with classical Zlatoust Soviet-style dive watches. Their reputation will be supported by old classical style Zlatoust watches. The next step will be making real dress watches looking near to Swiss high grade ones but not that expensive and perfectly Russian-looking.

Do you agree that my vision quite well-grounded and this special not typical decision can make sense?


----------



## pwalsh21

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> My hesitations are that if they put a definite WR it would be too typical.


I respectfully disagree. The most basic thing about a dive watch--ANY dive watch--is its water resistance. That will definitely be something a prospective buyer takes into account--maybe even the first thing. If the water resistance isn't there, why continue with the purchase?

What you have to do is decide what your ultimate goal is. Your ultimate goal is to sell watches. The more you sell, the more money you make. So what can you do to sell as many watches as possible? Make the buyer's decision as easy as possible. Don't make them work for it.

What you're saying, Silversen, is that you want prospective buyers to develop a level of interest in your product that will induce them to ask questions about it before they buy it. That's work they have to do. What that will do is build a small group of devoted fans--but that group will be SMALL, meaning you don't sell many watches.

The problem with that is that many prospective buyers will decide that they don't have time to be asking questions and simply buy something else. What that essentially means is that you DON'T sell as many watches as possible, and don't succeed in your goal.

These are just my thoughts, you can take them or leave them. It's entirely possible that you could not follow my advice and still succeed admirably--it's happened before! I do like most of your designs, Silversen, and I like what you bring to this forum. I wish you great success with this endeavor.

Patrick


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Let's look at it this way:

People buy full-size 4WD vehicles like Range Rovers and LandCruisers and yet stay in the city all the time; they get these vehicles not because they are off-road enthusiasts but they just want the capability "just in case", and more likely, not even have the slightest idea how to drive off-road. With diver watches (and in a lesser way, chronographs) the situation is similar. Only after they have made the purchase would they want to put in some efforts - if at all - to see what these products can do.

The real customers are the ones who just wander into a watch dealer - or online product review sites - and compare watches by the numbers in their specifications. Hi-Fi equipment buyers do that, camera buyers do that, mobile phone buyers do that, computer buyers do that too. If Zlatoust says, "if they know how our products are better than the Invictas of the world, they will come and buy them; if they don't then they should do their own homework"; fair enough. The point is that, the customers do not want to do any homework at all!

This also means that the forthcoming Zlatoust products will be only known to very few people, and it would never challenge Invicta's claim as the "original", because there will never be enough people to actually know Zlatoust actually exist.

This is of course my very personal view. The basic premise is still this: get the name out, be known to as many as possible; and to achieve this, Zlatoust needs to play the game by the market's rules, otherwise the name will never be known. This is not only about product design, it is about something that Zlatoust had neglected for too long: brand building, and the likes of Mr Lalo was able to exploit this.


----------



## Silversen

Seele, what I like in you most that you are a very good and intelligent interlocutor. I’m always like your comments.

You say: People buy full-size 4WD vehicles like Range Rovers and LandCruisers and yet stay in the city all the time. They get these vehicles not because they are off-road enthusiasts but they just want the capability "just in case", and more likely, not even have the slightest idea how to drive off-road. With diver watches (and in a lesser way, chronographs) the situation is similar.
My reply: you’re absolutely right. 

You say: The customers do not want to do any homework at all!
My reply: Again you’re right. It’s absolutely unnecessary to make any inscriptions on the dial because both the factory and the authorized dealer of the factory have the official site giving all the information on the product. The sales clerk at the watch shop who is interested in selling this watch always is ready to give all the information the customer wants. Numerous sites on watches like WUS or TZ-UK are full of competent guys like you which can give a good piece of advice to any person who asks. And finally each watch is accompanied the documents with all the information about it. The watch s surrounded by the information from all the sides. If the customer likes the watch, he hasn’t to do hard homework. His interest to the product is a motive power meeting its goal. It’s the same as in a physical law which you probably know: Every power directed in some way always find the equal counteracting power.

You say: Zlatoust needs to play the game by the market's rules.
My reply: The market is a battle field. The only thing which the player on the market must not break is the law. The manufacturer is free to define its marketing strategy. The manufacturer has the right to undertake nonstandard steps if they don’t break the law. I’d like to point you at a very interesting example from the Russian war history. There were in Russian history two commanders which didn’t lose a single battle and always beat enemies having 4-5 times superiority in men and artillery. These are Generalissimos Aleksandr Suvorov and Admiral Fyodor Ushakov. Do you know the reason of their phenomenal victories? They always played by their rules and didn’t follow the common ones. If they both had fought according to the prescribed rules they would have been beaten without fail.

If we’re talking on ZChZ where the watch production now is really small only effective design solutions, perfect engineering plus precise assembling accompanied nonstandard but effective actions and promotion can only give right result and not only save the production but also increase it. I`m glad that you understand that the matter is not in the inscription but in maintenance and development of watch production in Zlatoust. That’s why they need multi-role attractive models. Soviet style dive watches can’t be sold in thousands in spite of their qualities.

I decided to show you some of my numerous versions of Zlatoust concepts where I compare them to the watches near or even more then 10 times more expensive Swiss ones.


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen,

Thank you so much for taking the trouble reading - and digesting - my often unintelligible rants!

At other forums here at WUS, there are no shortage of funny and scary stories about how uneducated the watch sales people can be. Therefore, we cannot realistically make the assumption that any salesman is any better informed than the casual customer who walks into a watch dealer; he would still judge a watch by the number on the dial: WR 300 just _has_ to be better than one that says WR 100+!

That is what I mean by playing the game by the market's rules. The market judges the merits of a watch by the numbers and markings, just like the market judges the merits of a camera by the number of dials and buttons and number of automatic modes, or a piece of hi-fi equipment by the number of knobs and flashing lights on the front panel. For me, I use large-format cameras, Rolleis and Voigänders, and for hi-fi gear I use Creek, because I know better, regardless of the lack of these numbers and buttons and knobs. But I am an exception, and no high street photographic or hi-fi dealer would want to stock these items because they will never get sold!

I totally agree with using more contemporary designs to broaden the appeal of Zlatoust watches; never a doubt about that. But if they don't comply to the market rules such as having big numbers and perhaps ISO certification, people would still go for Invictas. In fact there are some who keep saying, Vostok Amphibias are not real diver watches and are not waterproof at all, because they don't have "functional" bezels and are not ISO certified.

I hope I am making a little bit of sense here.


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Let the manufacturer decide how to act. We only can discuss it. This discussion is really of great value for the guys from Zlatoust. My contact, Mr Fedotof, is on a business trip now and will return only in the second half of October. Today an art council about considering and choosing the designs of potential future models has taken place at ZChZ. Mr Fedotof promised to inform me about the results. He said that the Director General liked some of my versions but anyway I`m not sure that they will go into production.
The future will show.

Thank you, Sam, and my other colleagues for highly productive discussion.


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Thanks Silversen, I hope the discussion here have been fruitful to Zlatoust too. It might have felt a touch antagonistic, but truths and wisdom tend to come out of such lively discussions 

By the way, is the "Agat" brand cast in stone now? If you are using Photoshop or Illustrator for making the drawings, it would be interesting (if only academic) to try putting on the old Zlatoust logo instead: I mean the one with "Zlatoustovsky" in cursive through a circle. Just wondering how that looks: after all, watch customers want history, and there are plenty of makers who'd buy history - or make up their own!


----------



## Mister Mike

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



seele said:


> ...try putting on the old zlatoust logo instead: I mean the one with "zlatoustovsky" in cursive through a circle...


+1!! :-!


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

No antagonism at all. It was a role-playing game where you were advocating the traditional way whereas I was advocating nonstandart and risky way.

I use Photoshop.

As far as I know the Director General wants that the inscription "Златоустовский часовой завод" were put on the dial. I don`t like this idea: the inscription is too long. The inscription "Златоустовские" is much better. On the other hand, the brand "Агат" is quite good. It`s a subject for careful discusssing. If they like some of my version but want have some modifications made they will inform me via Mr Fedotof.

I`ll try and show you in some minutes a version you were interested in.


----------



## Silversen

Hey, colleagues!

Here you are! Do you think it`s better now?


----------



## Silversen

Hey, colleagues! 
Here you are! Do you think it`s better?

Sorry for double post. :-s


----------



## Niccolo

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> Please, don't forget: the manufacturer wants to single out its products from those of other producers. In addition, an inscription like this is an attempt to follow the old Soviet tradition of conservative understating of real ratings.


 Vitaly, unfortunately in western culture bigger is better, and manufacturers of all products are not conservative, they actually exaggerate...

As for the full colour designs they're absolutely stunning! They're all very original and stand out from the competition. I'll have a hard time choosing one. I like best the versions with the 300m inscription and Cyrillic characters. Cyrillic characters sell in western countries.

Here are another couple of links about the indestructability of Russian watches:
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/vostok-amphibian-wr200-inside-dish-wash-machine-freezer-82541.html
YouTube - Building A Vostok Wristwatch - English Subtitle Version


----------



## Chascomm

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I think part of the problem is that the ISO standards allow a static pressure rating to be expressed in linear units i.e. metres. It has led to an 'arms race' of depth rating. The uninformed believes this means watch that can be worn to that literal depth. Meanwhile the more informed buyer becomes ever more sceptical of 'depth' ratings. A side effect of this is a growing number of sports-watch buyers who won't even wash their hands unless their watch is rated more than 100m! Remember back in the old days when a 100m Seiko was considered good for any scuba work?

A way around this may be to use a BAR or ATM pressure rating rather than a depth rating. Or if a depth rating be used, make it more emphatic like the old Ruhla 'skindiver' watches "100% watertight to 60m".


----------



## McSteve

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Great thread! :-!


----------



## Silversen

I agree.

My acquainted watch shop-assistant told me stories about results of this misunderstanding.


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Thanks, Mario.


----------



## robbra

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Hello Silversen,
Can you tell me what the three word inscription favoured by the DG means?

I would definitely buy one of those watches, not the pepsi type but most likely the Ocean look alike.
Regarding water resistance, when I look at watches I ignore 50m or 100m and would never buy one with less than 200m. I connect this with ruggedness (like my amphibias) in a watch and should I find myself on the beach in the summer I haven't got to leave my watch in a bag on the sand but can go in the sea with no worries. Just me:think:
Another point is many people like to boast that their watch is waterproof to whatever depth and show the dials to friends as one upmanship. A good selling point

I wish you luck with these designs and thanks for all the information.
Rob


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen,

Thanks for the new pictures; I certainly like the "Златоустовские" better than "Агат" or "Agat".

Before Zlatoust can claim legitimacy as the creator of the "Russian diver", it has to claim legitimacy as a long-standing watch maker. To that end, Zlatoust needs to get past that "new brand" image as quickly as possible. That's why I said, history is very important, to the point that many new makers - some of them of dubious repute - are keen to make up their own history: see Stauer and Sturhling as our "sitting ducks"!

Now: consider this. Pick a Mr Average from any shopping mall and present to him a watch marked "Agat" and a watch with the original Zlatoust logo, like this:










I'd wager he would pick the latter because of its more "historic" flavour.

This also explains why the "mushroom breeders" dream up impressive-sounding French, Italian and Teutonic names.

Putting my "industrial designer" hat on again:

A first principle of watch dial design is that, if the logo is placed under the 12 o'clock position, the hands at the classic ten-past-ten position should not obscure the logo at all. So, if the old logo is used, then you can make it a little smaller, raise it a little further up, and it might be worth trying to use the triangular company logo as the 12 o'clock marker right at the top of the dial. Also as an experiment, add the year of establishment of the company below the old logo; Alpha does it even if it says "1993", Raketa may or may not benefit if they put in something like "Since 1721"!


----------



## Silversen

Sam, honestly speaking I forgot about that Vostok logo you showed. You`re a genius!
I`ve made a ZChZ version.

Guys, look at these three versions. Which looks the best?


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Just to add to my previous post:

Considering the fact that Zlatoust is going to step into the world stage to reclaim its position as a maker of superb divers. The majority of cultures are familiar with the Latin alphabet and see all letters as such, the "Златоустовский часовой завод" logo on the dial just would not register on their minds when they look at it. In this case it is a big advantage: people would ask the wearer "what's this watch?" and the wearer would be able to say something, working as a first-hand salesman.

However, the wearer would have to be able to connect with the watch first by being able to know its name. I think this series of watches could very well be called "Agat by Zlatoust" (as opposed to the updated original design) but with the name marked on the case back: something the owners would know and connect with on an everyday basis.

The language situation is something that can work with, or against you. Say for instance, Rolex is known as "five matches" in China, referring to the five prongs of the crown logo; likwise, XO class cognac is known as "cross-and-hole" for the same reason. Having a name in Cyrillic would pique interest but you still need to directly inform what its real name is.

This is a problem with Raketa: when written in Cyrillic, all capitals, it looks like "PAKETA", and in upper and lower case it looks like "Pakema"; due to the resemblance to Latin, people would never learn that the brand is really Raketa.

Naturally I am looking at the situation from the point of view as a prospective buying customer; if I do not know the name of a watch, I might not want to get it in the first place.


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> Sam, honestly speaking I forgot about that Vostok logo you showed. You`re a genius!
> I`ve made a ZChZ version.
> 
> Guys, look at these three versions. Which looks the best?


Silversen,

Looking great!

Without any intention to steal your thunder and with the respect as one designer to another, here are a couple of quick-and-dirty visuals of what I think, based on your existing rendering. The writing above the 6 o'clock marker can be Cyrillic too, but I am just trying to express an idea really.

The new rendition of the old logo can have the cursive writing through the centre of the circle, it is slightly below now, making it a little top-heavy to my eyes. I have lifted the logo a little way upwards as well.


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Replyng to both your posts:
I`m sure the management at Zlatoust will consider your proposals as well. 
When I was said that the Director General wanted the inscription Златоустовский часовой завод on the dial. I wasn`t said in what form it was supposed to be: just an inscription or ias a logo. But if it`s just an inscription, suppose how awful it would look.

Their initial intentions was the inscription of the brand Агат in Latin - Agat. Perhaps, they will prefer mixed "ZChZ logo in Russian + Agat in Latin". However the idea of using the name "Русский водолаз" / "Russian Diver" seems to me more proper because old ZChZ dive watches were real historic Russian Navy Divers` watches. At least, it`s necessary to try other versions either to prove its correctness or find a better one.

By the way, when I asked Sergey Fedotov about the real caalogue name for those Soviet watches he said that in reality they had had no official name at all. I noticed that if they were going to have two and more style watch lines they should define the name for not confuse neither themselves nor their customers.

Another their request was not to overload the dial. It was reasonable, but I said that the dial must be both functional and stylish. It must be ideally balanced.

There are some things to be renounced, for example, the year. I undersatand your position perfectly though. I myself was considering toput it but didn`t do that.

Sam, do you think the phont of the inscription in Latin you added won`t be too flashy and overwhelm the ZChZ logo with its bold rectilinear style? I think the phont there should be somewhat in another style.


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Thanks again Silversen, for your considerations!

The visuals I did was just a very rough mock-up for visually showing what I was thinking, nothing is meant to be cast in stone at all. I put the brand name - or watch family name as opposed to those of the original design - at the bottom as a way to highlight the manufacturer's logo above it; after all, brand building needs building the image of the company first.

Walking the tight robe in font selection, and indeed font design, comes down to a balance between legibility and readability. For instance, signage design requires immediate legibility; you take one glimpse and you get what it says, and in this context, a sans serif font works better. Gill Sans is used throughout the London Transport network, and when the UK revised its road signs some decades ago, it took a quite revolutionary step by adopting a sans serif font but in upper and lower case, rather than in upper case only: it actually turned out to work better that way. On the other hand, a serif font might look more "classic" or "classy" but its strength is readability. Imagine having a novel printed in Gill Sans, and you will find it very tiring to read.

To complicate it further, font size is also a factor. While I selected the font for the markings above the 6 o'clock marker very quickly, I selected Lucida Grande, which is actually something of a compromise. But of course, it's just a visual mock-up and further refinement is necessary, if the company decides to investigate this route further, regarding font and font size.

Furthermore, a lot comes down to the contrast between text and background. As the designs stand, you are proposing to use two or more colours to print the dial, then a light grey can be used for the markings above the 6 o'clock marker to reduce contrast as well, allowing the white-printed company logo to stand out more.

Lots more information can of course be put on the caseback, even something like "Powered by Vostok" if it is considered desirable!

With so many variables, even before considering the manufacturing process available, design is a tricky business isn't it?


----------



## Silversen

Absolutely agree, Sam!
It`s tricky and extremely interesting! :-!

Let`s wait comments from the Zlatoust management. We have made all the recommendations possible. I`ve sent all the versions of the logo, too.

I`m sure we are a great team and did a great work! :thanks


----------



## storyteller

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Princely job, Silversen and Seele! Thanks a lot. What about considering also a line more in - how to say, steampunk style, I always imagined the original Zlatoust diver that way. After all, from the very beginning it was kind of anachronism (in the sense of staying outside of any timelines, with its pre-war movement). 
Something like this (Retrowerk Watches | Steampunk Watches), but in Zlatoust spirit.


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



storyteller said:


> Princely job, Silversen and Seele! Thanks a lot. What about considering also a line more in - how to say, steampunk style, I always imagined the original Zlatoust diver that way. After all, from the very beginning it was kind of anachronism (in the sense of staying outside of any timelines, with its pre-war movement).
> Something like this (Retrowerk Watches | Steampunk Watches), but in Zlatoust spirit.


Thank you Storyteller, I appreciate greatly; after all I was a designer but then moved on to the media business, but it also allows me to see things from different perspectives, which can be good in some ways but terrible in others!

I agree with your point that the original Zlatoust diver can be a bit of an ancestor of the "steam punk" style. The way the style has developed into what it is now, has gone a bit beyond the original Zlatoust aim of making the final product completely functional without trimmings; in fact it is quite the opposite. Looking at the watches in the link you posted, they certainly remind me of the designs for the movie "La Cité des enfants perdus" ("The city of lost children") and such, with a bit of Heath Robinson added in good measure too.


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## Silversen

This style (IMO) is too wild and rough-looking. The Zlatoust watches are large but not that cholericly rough-looking. I`m afraid Retrowerk Watches are a bad dream for the management in Zatoust. :-d

Sam, I have slightly modified the ZChZ logo. I think it`s even better now ana in addition as you see I included the date there.

Do you remember us discussing and debatinng over MakTime theme? By the way, storyteller, you took part in that discussion, too, as well as I remember.

I made after that a logo of a new brand for Aleksandr Makarov - Moscovia. It`s far better than the brand MakTime. But in contrast to the guys from Zlatoust Makarov, after getting my report on our discussion, stopped replying.


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen,

The addition of "1941" gives the logo a bit of street cred, so to speak! However I still feel that the cursive writing should go through the centre of the circle, as the the letters making up the word "часовой" can be squeezed tighter, and those making up the word "завод" can be spaced a bit more generously. It is probably worth a try.


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## Silversen

But then when trying to put the word "Златоустовский" I will have to resize the word "часовой" to smaller size than the word "завод". I strongly think they must both be the same size making unity. I see you hint at the blank space over between "Златоустовский" and "часовой". This space can be filled wiith the coat of arms of the town of Zlatoust - Pegas.


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> But then when trying to put the word "Златоустовский" I will have to resize the word "часовой" to smaller size than the word "завод". I strongly think they must both be the same size making unity. I see you hint at the blank space over between "Златоустовский" and "часовой". This space can be filled wiith the coat of arms of the town of Zlatoust - Pegas.


Silversen, it is not about having a space to fill at all at the upper half of the semi-circle. When on the dial itself, the full width of the logo would be about 7mm or so across, personally I would feel very hesitant to add things to it as it would overload the logo itself, and it would just be a shapeless blob to the eye.

Here is another quick-and-dirty visualization of what I mean by centering the strike-through text: as I do not have Cyrillic fonts at my disposal I just moved the text around a bit, but you get the idea, I hope! Still we can use this logo in its original form, after all.


----------



## Silversen

Here you are, Sam! Compare the "Златоустовский часовой завод 1941" logo with a newer version - the "Златоустовские часы 1941" logo. As you see the latter has fewer components then the first. That`s why it`s better.


----------



## storyteller

Well, I think that the nightmare of Zlatoust directors is not selling their watches (instead of Retrowerk watches). Frankly, I have a rather conservative taste and like clean, functionalist design, but I was trying to imagine something which would go beyond the pilot dial/diver case watches. Don't take me too seriously - somebody should be advocatus diaboli in this thread. What about playing with Zlatoust name - associated with the most famous Russian cold weapons. This could be a source for powerful symbols and images.


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen,

Speaking strictly for myself: when I am on a design job, now and again, I step back and then look at the whole design process all over again, and see if I have put myself in a "tunnel-vision" situation. While your new designs for the logo is nice enough, do bear in mind that it needs to look good when you shrink it down to just a few millimetres across and printed in a single colour; how that will work out, I do not know, so I cannot tell you either.

For reference purpose, here is the original logo on the box lid, from Mark's collection, and not one with the deliberate wrong spelling! :-!


----------



## Niccolo

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen, out of your 3 logos I like this one best for the dial:









I feel the logo below will be illegible on the dial, so how about putting it on the caseback?? (By the way I like the variant with the date)


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I agree. It looks like a seal.

But we should try all versions possible. You see the Director General wants evidently to put the logo as on the watch box Sam just showed.


----------



## Silversen

Here you are versions with modified design!


----------



## robbra

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> Here you are versions with modified design!


Spot on Silversen. Love the dolphin. I would go with that and some kind of logo on the caseback |>
Rob


----------



## Oldheritage

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I like the pegasus in the logo now, looks very good :-!


----------



## Vaurien

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> Here you are versions with modified design!


Fine! I like these versions :-!


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Silversen,

An idea: make sure you can indeed use the Pegasus as part of the trademark; some local governments tend to guard their logos and graphics very seriously.

The dolphin/orca image is also often used by various watch manufacturers, Cornavin used to have one on pretty much all their watches, waterproof or otherwise.


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I will learn it pretty soon. I`m waiting a reply from Zlatoust with their reaction and additional information including as I guess some corrections. I expect to receive it after October 1.


----------



## zippofan

Just happened to stumble on this thread guys and all I can say is wow! and 
I hope that these designs make their way to finished watches, I would love to add another, true Russian diver to my collection as my favorite is just barely Russian, the Poljot Argus.

Cheers,
Griff


----------



## avatar1

Any news..?


----------



## Silversen

avatar1 said:


> Any news..?


Waiting:roll:


----------



## avatar1

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

o|


----------



## Rusdude

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

It's time to resurrect this thread 

Has there been any news on the new watches? I'm mainly interested in a smaller version of the original design for the understated look (well, as much as 50mm can be understated). I looked online and it looks like 192 ChS is still available in a couple of places, so it can be had. But 60mm is hugely impractical, so a 50mm version would be a huge hit, I believe.


----------



## pmwas

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

About a month ago I was thinking, that maybe I'd be interested in buying this watch, so I sent an e-mail to the factory, but I never got any response, sadly. What do you mean saying that it is available? I can't find 192 ChS anywhere. Only the so-called 191ChS, unfortunately...


----------



## avatar1

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



pmwas said:


> About a month ago I was thinking, that maybe I'd be interested in buying this watch, so I sent an e-mail to the factory, but I never got any response, sadly. What do you mean saying that it is available? I can't find 192 ChS anywhere. Only the so-called 191ChS, unfortunately...


Same thing happened to me. Factory seems to be closed due to excessive wealth.b-)


----------



## Seele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

This is one of the exasperating thing about some firms! I feel sure that Zlatoust is well aware of its supporters who want the best for the firm, and the opportunities it had lost in the past, but sitting on their hands for another day would give the more responsive competitors another day to make profit, often at its expense.


----------



## avatar1

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/new-zlatoust-vodolaz-53mm-prototype-515085.html


----------



## robbra

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

I sent a request to them on 8th August 2010 and this week got a reply, seven months later:-(.
510 euros plus postage.


----------



## Silversen

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



avatar1 said:


> https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/new-zlatoust-vodolaz-53mm-prototype-515085.html


We`ve already disscussed it!
See here: 
https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/new-zlatoust-vodolaz-53mm-prototype-515085.html


----------



## avatar1

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



Silversen said:


> We`ve already disscussed it!
> See here:
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f10/new-zlatoust-vodolaz-53mm-prototype-515085.html


Eh...I know, that's why I have included the link here. This thread lacks moderation.


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## Silversen

Oh, I see. :-s
Just a little misunderstanding.


----------



## michele

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



avatar1 said:


> This thread lacks moderation.


The moderators' work is made harder by members who bumps old threads, in presence of newer and updated threads.

Simply search among more recent threads and don't bump old ones.


----------



## shorinjikempo

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Hi, anybody here own one and ready to do a wrist shot?


----------



## netdancer

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*

Hi to everyone.

I've contacted the factory via their web page with request for diver watches. It have happened in jan.2011.

Just 1-2 weeks ago I've finally recieved an answer (good soviet-type service) that says that order is available and the price is 20000 rur, that is close to usd700.

There wasn't any description of model they offer, just my request form copy and the price.

So the watches are available, but I would think twice for this price.


----------



## Rusdude

*Re: Zlatoust Diver Watches - the official site of Agat Watch Factory*



netdancer said:


> Hi to everyone.
> 
> I've contacted the factory via their web page with request for diver watches. It have happened in jan.2011.
> 
> Just 1-2 weeks ago I've finally recieved an answer (good soviet-type service) that says that order is available and the price is 20000 rur, that is close to usd700.
> 
> There wasn't any description of model they offer, just my request form copy and the price.
> 
> So the watches are available, but I would think twice for this price.


@ Netdance: 20 000 rubles is the price for 192 model; pricing for 53mm 192 is around 12 000 rubles (I assume, it can fluctuate due to currency fluctuations).

@ Michele: I'm grateful to people who posted an update in this thread. I don't check WUS daily, so I subscribed to email notifications on this thread |>


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