# Laco vs. Archimede



## GuySie

Without wanting to hijack this thread, but I have a question about the same watch  from googling about the Laco Miyota watches, it seems that at some point it was possible to buy and fit Laco blue hands on the type B model and possibly on the type A. I can't seem to find a link to that on the current site though. Is it still an option, or is there another way to get blue hands on this watch? It's the only thing that keeps the Laco from being near perfect... The Archimede Pilot H is my next choice but the Laco name means a lot when it comes to b-uhr's.


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## alexp215

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

What he said and stepping it up a notch what is the laco like vs. the steinhart? Or the archimede? I want blue hands the laco doesn't have


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## Uwe W.

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*



GuySie said:


> it seems that at some point it was possible to buy and fit Laco blue hands on the type B model and possibly on the type A. I can't seem to find a link to that on the current site though. Is it still an option, or is there another way to get blue hands on this watch? It's the only thing that keeps the Laco from being near perfect... The Archimede Pilot H is my next choice but the Laco name means a lot when it comes to b-uhr's.


Actually, I don't recall blued hands ever being available for the Miyota. If my memory is correct they were available for a short while in the Laco store for the ETA models. If you're considering an Archimede, why aren't you looking at the 42 mm Lacos with the ETA movements? They have blued hands and the FL ordinance marking on the case.

The Laco is 490 EUR vs 365 EUR for the base H model. An H model with the FL engraving is 465 EUR. So for 25 EUR more you get the history of the Laco name.

Comparison between my Archimede Pilot Original and an ETA based LE Laco (on right):


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## Uwe W.

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*



alexp215 said:


> What he said and stepping it up a notch what is the laco like vs. the steinhart? Or the archimede? I want blue hands the laco doesn't have


The Miyota doesn't have blued hands. The ETAs do. But then again you're comparing the Laco Miyota to a Steinhart that is twice the price. If you want to compare apples to apples then the Laco ETA has the blued hands just like the Steinhart. However, with the Laco you get an original case design and lineage. I like Steinhart a lot (I own four), but when put against a Laco of similar price there's no comparison; I'd take the Laco every time. One is history and the other is an interpretation of it.


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## paveiv

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

Just want to point out that the Laco (and Archimede if not mistaken, not sure about Steinhart) has hands blued chemically, not heated. Only Stowa has it this way. Not sure if this is important though And correct me if I am wrong.


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## GuySie

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*



Uwe W. said:


> If you're considering an Archimede, why aren't you looking at the 42 mm Lacos with the ETA movements? They have blued hands and the FL ordinance marking on the case.


Budget issues. I'm not debating the inherent quality of Laco vs Archimede, but am simply looking for the best bang-for-your-buck affordable flieger. That's why the Laco Miyota's popped onto the radar, being quite a bit cheaper than the Archimede, which was the cheapest acceptable option I'd found so far. I don't need an ETA, my Miyota watches handle perfectly, and cutting costs that way is perfectly acceptable to me. Blue hands are a must for the look I'm trying to achieve though.


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## hbk75

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*



paveiv said:


> Just want to point out that the Laco (and Archimede if not mistaken, not sure about Steinhart) has hands blued chemically, not heated. Only Stowa has it this way. Not sure if this is important though And correct me if I am wrong.


Hi Paveiv,

Laco hands are chemical blued or lacquered blue? What i've heard is lacquered..


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## Uwe W.

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*



hbk75 said:


> Laco hands are chemical blued or lacquered blue? What i've heard is lacquered..


They're lacquered (painted) blue. Stowa are heated, which is one reason for their additional cost. Watches are manufactured to a price point, a decision that is reflected in the quality and types of components fitted to a particular model. Laco could have chosen to go with heat blued hands but would have charged more the watch. Considering they're a concession to staying within a design budget I think the painted hands look quite good. Other watches I own that are in and around that price range also have painted hands and unless you look at them through a loupe, they're an acceptable option to the heat treated version.

Irrespective of cost and as fantastic as Stowa watches are, it's unlikely that I'll purchase a modern one until their case sizes grow a little. At 40 mm (41 mm for a few) they're simply too small for my tastes. The Laco at 42 mm is close to a perfect size and there's the option of a 45 mm or 55 mm for days when you want to feel like you're wearing a real flight instrument.


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## fachiro1

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

Blued hands are not available for the miyota and never were. For the etas, at one time, the blue b type hand were offered separately, but i think that is gone now, after the change to the new laco site.

However, though the blue hands on the current line up are not heat or chemically bluded, they look quite nice and are great quality.


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## paveiv

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

ah sorry, as Uwe wrote, they are lacquered of course, I am not sure why I wrote that even though I read the thread about it few days ago... but they look great nonetheless


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## mebiuspower

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

Is it true that Archimede watches are not made in Germany?


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## Uwe W.

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*



mebiuspower said:


> Is it true that Archimede watches are not made in Germany?


What do you get when you combine three Germans, a Canadian and a Japanese? It would appear you get mebiuspower's watch collection.

I'm not sure what percentage of each Archimede watch is German made. Archimede is an Ickler company which is based in the same town as Laco - that's pretty German - and according to Ickler their cases are "crafted in-house, from solid blocks of stainless steel, pure titanium or 18 carat gold using the latest CNC machinery". Movements are Swiss. Sounds to me like they're German made but I'm sure someone the German Watch forum could give you more in-depth detail.


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## dal_sing

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

I would also pick Laco +1


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## alexp215

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

So how about a 42mm or so flieger, blank type a dial, no date, can have brand logo and name but no date or seperate seconds hand at 9 like I've been seeing. And with blue hands. What's out there?


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## Janne

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

Separate seconds at 9??
You mean like the B-uhren designed and made in Ukraine?


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## alexp215

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

Yea or like the clones that come out of china with the "6497" movements. which my Pam homage has, but it looks appropriate, not on a flieger IMO.


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## Uwe W.

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*



alexp215 said:


> So how about a 42mm or so flieger, blank type a dial, no date, can have brand logo and name but no date or seperate seconds hand at 9 like I've been seeing. And with blue hands. What's out there?


You just described the new Laco 42 mm B-Uhr which is available in either an auto or handwind version. It has every feature in your list.


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## alexp215

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

Anything cheaper? The blue hand lacos are 400+


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## picklepossy

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

As you can see on LACO's website that there is not a cheaper alternative with the blue hands.


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## Janne

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*



alexp215 said:


> which my Pam homage has, but it looks appropriate,


Yes, because the WW2 era Originals had the seconds at 9. They used PW movements. Another version (WW2 era) had Rolex movements
.
So your homage is correct in that aspect!.


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## Uwe W.

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*



alexp215 said:


> which my Pam homage has, but it looks appropriate, not on a flieger


Exactly. The original Panerai was intended for use as a diving watch - the first models didn't even have a second hand. It's rather silly - and I don't care if IWC does it - to put a sub-second complication on a watch that was designed for precision time keeping in a moving environment.


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## alexp215

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*



Janne said:


> Yes, because the WW2 era Originals had the seconds at 9. They used PW movements. Another version (WW2 era) had Rolex movements
> .
> So your homage is correct in that aspect!.


 That's what I meant when I said appropriate. I just figure if I'm going to get it, might as well get the accurate design.

It's not that I don't have the money to put out for an ETA based flieger, it's just that this will be my 6th watch and I cycle them regularly so it won't see a lot of wrist time, the more I spend on a watch the more I'll be afraid to wear it and scuff it up.

I'd like something in the 200 or so range US with blue hands, 42 or 44mm, no junk. Push comes to shove I'll just get the Laco Miyota, but I'd really like blue hands


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## Janne

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

To be frank, the thin Blued (or Black) edge on the hands is really, really thin. My Support Laco Chrono has the Black edged hands. Both WUS LE's have Blued hands.

Strangely enough, I do not mind the Black ones. If I want to see the Blueing, I need to conciously angle the watch so the very thin blue edges catch the light and reflection.
In real life, they look black most of the time!

If I had the choice between a Black hand Laco and a Blue hand Archimede, i would not hesitate.

Laco.


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## AustinOX

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

The biggest thing that sets the Lacos apart, in my opinion, are the lugs. The rest of the case shape lends to the aesthetic, but without the ETA case lugs I really don't see any advantage in purchasing a Laco when the Archimede has blued hands and a higher beat Swiss movement easily capable of running within COSC specs. For me the Laco history and authenticity is very much diluted by the different lugs and the Japanese movement.

That being said, my advice is to save your money and treat yourself to the ETA version of the Laco. I've owned three (still have two of them) and there really is nothing quite like them when it comes to pilot watches. The new ones look fantastic. The bluing compares well to the flame-blue hands on my dress watch, and I'd have to disagree with the other poster who didn't think it looked that much different from the black outlined hands. I think the flash of color really sets the watch off. I'm not saying that I'd turn down a straight trade on an IWC or GO, but I am saying that I prefer the style of the ETA Laco fliegers to everything else from Steinhart/Archimede to Stowa, IWC, and GO. That is the honest truth. Each one I've owned has also been regulated within 6 seconds per day from the factory.

You'll get over wearing an expensive watch- trust me. Until this became a serious hobby I only wore my $179 Luminox Quadrum on nice occasions. I now regularly wear a watch costing about fifteen times as much. Figure out what you really like and try to only buy "keepers." If you're not 100% sure then shop smart, wear it sparingly, and if you decide to let it go you won't lose your ass. If you need a Laco AD hookup PM me.

Austin


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## Uwe W.

*Re: LACO 42 Miyota Automatic questions*

Austin, I have to agree with most of your comments and you made several good points.

My only counter-argument is that the Miyota serves well as an entry-level model. Personally, I am glad that they offer it - even if it dilutes the purity of an original Laco. For those who are either new to Laco or have not become accustomed to the elevated pricing of mechanical watches, the Miyota is a nice way for them to ease into the Laco brand and the hobby of watch collecting. I can still recall - barely - the angst I had when buying my first $200 mechanical watch. I wish there had been a Laco Miyota option back then. More serious collectors always have the option of buying a Laco with more purity.

The idea I'm sure is to offer a little bit of everything for everybody. What would be gained by excluding novice buyers from enjoying your brand because your collection starts at a prohibitively high price point? I like the Miyota models and own a couple because they serve a purpose in my collection too. If I'll be involved in an activity that would potentially damage a watch I'll throw on a Miyota and not worry about the consequences.


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## gretch6364

I know this is an old thread, but I didn't think starting a new one was appropriate. I am looking to purchase a type b pilot watch in the $1K price range. Since 2011, Archimede seems to of changed a lot moved a bit more up market. Here is what I am looking for:

Sterile Type B Dial
Manual Wind
42MM
Onion Crown

Right now, my leader is the Archimede with add ons for the onion crown and a domed crystal. I also like the Loca and it is honestly about the same price. HOWEVER, the Loca has a snap on caseback and the Archimede has a screw in and is now 10 ATM. This is pretty important to me personally as this will be an everyday watch and I may put a rubber strap on it and wear it fishing.

Any opinions on if it is silly to pay almost or as much for the Archimede? Any other brands I should look at that are under $1500?

Also considering spending more and getting the Hanhart 417ES instead. Thanks!


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## soundfanz

gretch6364 said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I didn't think starting a new one was appropriate. I am looking to purchase a type b pilot watch in the $1K price range. Since 2011, Archimede seems to of changed a lot moved a bit more up market. Here is what I am looking for:
> 
> Sterile Type B Dial
> Manual Wind
> 42MM
> Onion Crown
> 
> Right now, my leader is the Archimede with add ons for the onion crown and a domed crystal. I also like the Loca and it is honestly about the same price. HOWEVER, the Loca has a snap on caseback and the Archimede has a screw in and is now 10 ATM. This is pretty important to me personally as this will be an everyday watch and I may put a rubber strap on it and wear it fishing.
> 
> Any opinions on if it is silly to pay almost or as much for the Archimede? Any other brands I should look at that are under $1500?
> 
> Also considering spending more and getting the Hanhart 417ES instead. Thanks!


Check out the Dekla range. You can customise to a degree, and they appear to me to offer great value for the price.


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## gretch6364

Stowa might also be a great option it seems since they are 200M


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## Laco Pforzheim

gretch6364 said:


> (...) Here is what I am looking for:
> 
> Sterile Type B Dial
> Manual Wind
> 42MM
> Onion Crown
> 
> (...) HOWEVER, the Loca has a snap on caseback and the Archimede has a screw in and is now 10 ATM. This is pretty important to me personally as this will be an everyday watch and I may put a rubber strap on it and wear it fishing.


As this thread is placed in the Laco forum, we're happy to answer as well  Our model "Leipzig" has the technical specifications which you are looking for. Exept the screw in case back, but it is waterproof up to 10 ATM nevertheless. As we want to keep the "original" series as close as possible to the historical originals, we only offer the snap case back, no screwed case back, but the waterproofness is still given.


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## gretch6364

Thanks so much for the response. I am currently on the Laco train. Your website says "up to 10 ATM." Does that mean it is a true 10 ATM watch? I don't really plan to swim (on purpose) with it and am willing to take it off when I get in the hottub. However, it would probably sit on the side and I fish a lot...so it would regularly be dunked when fishing. Thanks!


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## Laco Pforzheim

Yeah of course it is waterproof to 10 ATM (means 100 metres) then. With 10 ATM you can do almost everything with the watch except scuba diving. But dunking the watch in the water while fishing is not issue at all. But please keep in mind that we only had a water resistance of 5 ATM in the past for our original pilot watches. So if you might buy an used model or at one of our retailers with older stock, the WR might be lower...


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