# Project 300 - will it be built?



## americandave (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm looking at the design and delay threads, and I would LOVE to have an alternative to the Watchco SM300...but something in my gut tells me this watch, which isn't even designed after 3 and a half years, will never be built.


For plank owners, what assures you this project will ever be made?


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## Plat0 (Feb 28, 2012)

Has Bill ever failed at delivering any project?


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## Cleans Up (Jun 14, 2010)

"For plank owners, what assures you this project will ever be made?"

In a word: Bill


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## Quartersawn (Nov 20, 2008)

americandave said:


> ...and I would LOVE to have an alternative to the Watchco SM300...


Source the parts and have a watchmaker service and assemble it. You end up with a basically NOS (and serviced) watch that doesn't cost that much more than what the Project 300 is projected to cost and is cheaper than what Watchco gets for them.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f20/my-m...canadian-twist-shaken-not-stirred-730471.html


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## kkmark (Feb 23, 2009)

americandave said:


> I'm looking at the design and delay threads, and I would LOVE to have an alternative to the Watchco SM300...but something in my gut tells me this watch, which isn't even designed after 3 and a half years, will never be built.
> 
> For plank owners, what assures you this project will ever be made?


Bill's reputation. Good enough for me. As a plank owner, I'm happy to be told when it's ready to move forward. If there is the slightest chance it won't be built, I'm sure I'll get an email from Bill.


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## gman54 (Sep 22, 2009)

In my opinion, the 300 will be produced. I believe that the MIIK history demonstrates strong loyalty to Bill's brand and high demand for the products; both new and secondary markt. I'm content to continue waiting for my plank to arrive in the distant future. Same goes for the Key West project. I'll simply rotate my other five MIIK watches on my arm and know that waiting for the timepieces is time and money well spent... GMAN54


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

Was the Kingston the first "special project" or were there others, before? I'm a plank holder on the Key West (God, I wish the name "Havana" had won! At least we didn't call it "Project Spring Break"). A year and a half ago, it was a fast follow on to the Kingston (same case) and we were going to benefit from what was learned on the Kingston project. Now, it's a year and a half later and it seems like the only thing we've added is the name. I get that it's a long process and Bill is great about incorporating feedback, but I don't understand why it takes this long to get only this far. Thankfully, you fine people on the forum have prepared me for the long haul.


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## Neily_San (Nov 12, 2011)

americandave said:


> For plank owners, what assures you this project will ever be made?


Quite simply Bill is a man of integrity.


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## Thieuster (Jan 22, 2009)

> For plank owners, what assures you this project will ever be made?


Come on, look what happened during the design process of the Kingston. Then, look at all the beautiful pics of Kingstons from all over the world. And finally, look at the asking prices of Kingstons that are offered on the open market. I'm sure you will than realise that every 'plank owner' isn't worried like you.

I realise that you're 'new' here, but the fact that you joined Watchuseek in 2011 has given you enough time to answer this question for yourself.

Menno


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## TK792 (Dec 11, 2011)

It may take some time, but all of Bill's projects get done. Just look at how difficult it is to get a spot in line to obtain one of his watches. Amazing watches at fantastic prices. I am in the holding pattern right now for a Project GMT. I know the wait will be worth it, just like the Kingston!


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

BigHaole said:


> Was the Kingston the first "special project" or were there others, before? I'm a plank holder on the Key West (God, I wish the name "Havana" had won! At least we didn't call it "Project Spring Break"). A year and a half ago, it was a fast follow on to the Kingston (same case) and we were going to benefit from what was learned on the Kingston project. Now, it's a year and a half later and it seems like the only thing we've added is the name. I get that it's a long process and Bill is great about incorporating feedback, but I don't understand why it takes this long to get only this far. Thankfully, you fine people on the forum have prepared me for the long haul.


I think Bill is quite a bit farther than the name for the Key West. I believe actual parts are involved somewhere in there.


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

White Tuna said:


> I think Bill is quite a bit farther than the name for the Key West. I believe actual parts are involved somewhere in there.


I believe I saw that cases were ordered, but I haven't seen anything else. And the case was planned, from the start, to be the same as the Kingston.


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## tako_watch (Apr 1, 2010)

MKII's are a lesson in delayed gratification. I went through longs years of education for my profession and the "wait" before becoming a real adult in the world was worth it and so is the MKII. It will get done. Heck I'm in the wait for the TR!


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## AlphaWolf777 (Aug 11, 2012)

Yes, it will be built. Bill always delivers, each watch project has proven this.

I waited 6 months of debating, buying/selling, and trading before I finally pulled the trigger on a Nassau 2nd hand BNIB. Let me tell you, it was worth it.

When I first opened up that box and saw the Nassau...it was love at first sight...


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## americandave (Jan 31, 2011)

Total wait time for P300 to this point (no complete design yet, still drawings) is already longer than the entire time it took to build the Kingston, from start to finish - I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder if something about the project makes it impossible to progress.


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

americandave, I do not think it is unreasonable if people have this concern. It has been a long time and even though am awaiting a project GMT I hope it gets completed before the project GMT. I actually think Project 300 could introduce more people to MKII.


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

I wonder if the intention was for Project GMT to jump ahead of Project 300, since it was related to the Kingston/Nassau? I was looking back over old posts and at one point Bill said he hoped to ship it (GMT) by the end of this year.


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## Plat0 (Feb 28, 2012)

BigHaole said:


> I wonder if the intention was for Project GMT to jump ahead of Project 300, since it was related to the Kingston/Nassau? I was looking back over old posts and at one point Bill said he hoped to ship it (GMT) by the end of this year.


I would be amazed if Bill were to ship the GMT by the end of this year. We still haven't even seen the wide release of the Nassau date (explorer/vantage dial) nor the Fulcrum (which was apparently ready to ship sooner than not). I would think Bills plate is full for the year at least.

My predictions:
A few Nassau date shipped by late Fall with full out release early 2014.

Few Fulcrums shipped during the Winter and full out release by early 2014.

Sea Fighter/Sting Ray redux by Summer of 2014.

Release of GMT by Fall 2014.

Project 300... Sometime in 2015.

IMHO of course...


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

Plat0 said:


> I would be amazed if Bill were to ship the GMT by the end of this year. We still haven't even seen the wide release of the Nassau date (explorer/vantage dial) nor the Fulcrum (which was apparently ready to ship sooner than not). I would think Bills plate is full for the year at least.
> 
> My predictions:
> A few Nassau date shipped by late Fall with full out release early 2014.
> ...


I can understand the Nassau and it's derivatives, since there are tweaks on the very popular and very well loved Kingston. Pushing those out makes perfect sense to me. But I don't get launching a new watch, in the Fulcrum, while you still have two limited edition projects in motion.

But, I guess the silver lining is the hope that we're able to get some technological breakthrough on the bezel, with the extra time.


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## White Tuna (Mar 31, 2011)

Nassau 3-6-9 is in there somewhere as well.


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

One thing to remember,all of these different Nassau's are basically the same watch, just dial variations. The date is no different,all the ETA 2824 movements start out life as a date movement. The Key West GMT while it shares the Kingston case, has a different dial, bezel / insert, movement (2893-2) and hand set. So building the Key West is not as simple as a dial change which is what you have with all the variations of the Nassau.


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## AlphaWolf777 (Aug 11, 2012)

Arthur said:


> One thing to remember,all of these different Nassau's are basically the same watch, just dial variations. The date is no different,all the ETA 2824 movements start out life as a date movement. The Key West GMT while it shares the Kingston case, has a different dial, bezel / insert, movement (2893-2) and hand set. So building the Key West is not as simple as a dial change which is what you have with all the variations of the Nassau.


Not to mention the bezel design/material and the crown design.  If I were to have a Key West right now, I wouldn't care if it had gilt or not, a standard aluminum pepsi/coke/black GMT bezel and the standard 7mm Nassau crown. I'd just be happy to own one in the first place! But that's just me, I find it hard to be picky when you're dealing with really high quality products. b-)


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

Like I said, I completely understand why the Nassau variations are popping up. It's an easy way to expand the line, without taking on significant new engineering efforts. What I don't understand is why the other projects are taking so long. I haven't been a follower of the Project 300 and I'm not a pre-order for it, but I can understand americandave's concern, if it's already gone longer than the Kingston project did. 

I knew when I made my down-payment on the GMT, that it was going to take a while, though there was the hope of the process being faster, based on the experience gained in the Kingston project. I know now that Bill's early goal of releasing GMT in late 2013 is not likely to happen. I would be very happy, if it was available by summer 2014. And, since I have mentally "written off" the down-payment, when I get the final bill, it will seem very cheap for what will (hopefully) be an exceptional timepiece.


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## es335 (Oct 10, 2007)

Did MKII start taking preorder deposits on the Project 300 in 2009?


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## MHe225 (Jan 24, 2010)

es335 said:


> Did MKII start taking preorder deposits on the Project 300 in 2009?


I don't recall, it's too long ago :-d If memory serves me well, I think I was an early adopter and amongst the first to put down a deposit. That was on March 16, 2010 - 40 months ago, but who's counting? ;-) Again, I may remember incorrectly and hope that others chime in and correct me if warranted.

And Project GMT started only "yesterday" with only 18 months passed since I paid my deposit. I am confident that both projects will see the light of day and when they do, I will have the balance waiting in an old sock.

RonB


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

MHe225 said:


> ...and when they do, I will have the balance waiting in an old sock.


Do you think we'll still use socks, that far in the future? Won't we all have 5 finger shoes by then? ;-)


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## AlphaWolf777 (Aug 11, 2012)

BigHaole said:


> Do you think we'll still use socks, that far in the future? Won't we all have 5 finger shoes by then? ;-)


LOL, that made me laugh! :-d We'll all wear gray jumpsuits by then and have generic futuristic names too! b-)


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

AlphaWolf777 said:


> LOL, that made me laugh! :-d We'll all wear gray jumpsuits by then and have generic futuristic names too! b-)


And we'll all tell time on these crazy little telephones that we can carry around with us...


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## AlphaWolf777 (Aug 11, 2012)

BigHaole said:


> And we'll all tell time on these crazy little telephones that we can carry around with us...


I see what you did there. :-d


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## americandave (Jan 31, 2011)

So, four years on, and the design isn't even set for this watch….really, it's still going to be built? I can't see how.


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## Plat0 (Feb 28, 2012)

americandave said:


> So, four years on, and the design isn't even set for this watch&#8230;.really, it's still going to be built? I can't see how.


Relax Dave. Unless Mr. Yao himself says it won't happen anymore then assume that it WILL. Bill has a track record of delivering - granted its on his own time schedule but the results are always stellar.


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## americandave (Jan 31, 2011)

Is there a timeline anywhere for release of the GMT or P300? I'm assuming delivery on the stingray II will be five years plus at minimum.


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## NWP627 (Feb 24, 2008)

americandave said:


> I'm assuming delivery on the stingray II will be five years plus at minimum.


Please don't say that! I'm hoping that any day now Bill will announce the sale of the Stingray II. :-!


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## TheDude (Jan 27, 2009)

americandave said:


> Is there a timeline anywhere for release of the GMT or P300? I'm assuming delivery on the stingray II will be five years plus at minimum.


Yeah. Bill mentioned summer for the GMT.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Arthur (Feb 11, 2006)

TheDude said:


> Yeah. Bill mentioned summer for the GMT.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Man I hope you are correct!! I was one of the first to make a pre order and deposit. Maybe that will kick up the activity level here. I only drop in a couple of times a week, cause there has been so little activity lately.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

According to the new project page on the MKII website, Project GMT is currently in the "Production" phase and Project 300 is in "Technical Drawings" phase.


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## es335 (Oct 10, 2007)

americandave said:


> Is there a timeline anywhere for release of the GMT or P300? I'm assuming delivery on the stingray II will be five years plus at minimum.


Bill Yao announced "Stage 1" of the Project 300 (Omega Seamaster 300 homage) on January 2, 2010. More than four years later, does anyone know the status of this timepiece or street date?


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## omega600 (Jun 29, 2012)

I also signed up for Project 300 back in 2010 as an early adopter. Knowing Bill, he will deliver, always does. I'll continue to wait patiently for the next phase of the project, but it would be nice to hear some progress updates once in while, good, bad or otherwise. 

Best,
Frank


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## tmoris (Dec 8, 2009)

It seems omega will introduce its own P300 homage to its 2014 anniversary, so they will come ahead of mkii's edition..


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## tmoris (Dec 8, 2009)




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## ljb187 (Nov 6, 2009)

tmoris said:


> It seems omega will introduce its own P300 homage to its 2014 anniversary, so they will come ahead of mkii's edition..


That's probably true, but it looks like a PO hybrid and like others have said there's a pretty decent chance it'll be 17mm thick. I dropped out of Project 300 because anything over 39mm wasn't going to work for me (plus I sorta hated the name), but given a choice and spending my own money, I'd still rather have the MKII.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

tmoris said:


> View attachment 1419355


I never did like that dial configuration. :roll:

And I don't like that hand-set either!! :-x

So, this is a no-brainer for me......;-)

_I'll continue to wait for *MKII* and *Project 300*!!_ b-)

Thanks for keeping us informed, tmoris.

-Carry On-


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## heebs (Nov 9, 2008)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> I never did like that dial configuration. :roll:
> 
> And I don't like that hand-set either!! :-x
> 
> ...


It's a shame really. I like the bezel a lot and would really like to see a full homage of the earlier SM300 166.014 with the proper dial and hands.


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## MHe225 (Jan 24, 2010)

tmoris said:


>


Following your post, I have read up on the discussion of this soon-to-be-unveiled model in the Omega corner. Lot of speculations, little actual facts and the image shown is a photo-shop / render done by someone on another forum. This is not an image release by Omega.
That said, based on what people view as "hard evidence", this upcoming "Seamaster Tribute" will not float my boat (pun intended); dimensions are totally off (for me at least). I will continue my wait for the MKII P300.

Speaking of which: tomorrow, *March 16 marks the 4th anniversary of sending my deposit to Mr. Yao .......*


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## sierra11b (Jan 7, 2011)

Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel in 4 years.

This thread is the most active in MkII forum which has been virtually stagnant otherwise. I pulled my deposit long ago but it may be time to realize a lot of you have put good money after bad. Look on the bright side... At least Yao wasn't asking full price but I bet he wish he had.


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## mlb212 (Sep 17, 2013)

sierra11b said:


> Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel in 4 years.
> 
> This thread is the most active in MkII forum which has been virtually stagnant otherwise. I pulled my deposit long ago but it may be time to realize a lot of you have put good money after bad. Look on the bright side... At least Yao wasn't asking full price but I bet he wish he had.


Good point. If Bill was painting a church ceiling we would have a good comparison timeline with Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni's Sistine Chapel frescoes. I struggle however with the relevancy of this somewhat stretched comparison, although I applaud the allusion to Bill's artistry. A better comparison would be the construction of the Basilica di Santa Maria del Fiore (I am trying to stick with your Italian Renaissance theme while preserving the monumental artistic achievement allusion), you know... building something. The Duomo of Firenze took 140 years, from 1296 to 1436.


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## mlb212 (Sep 17, 2013)

sierra11b said:


> Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel in 4 years.
> 
> This thread is the most active in MkII forum which has been virtually stagnant otherwise. I pulled my deposit long ago but it may be time to realize a lot of you have put good money after bad. Look on the bright side... At least Yao wasn't asking full price but I bet he wish he had.


One of the members around here has a great signature that speaks to patience and that good things take some time...

"If people had to have everything immediately I wonder where the world would be now? Why would we even need watches in a world of now? Would we have finely aged wines and scotches? Why not just eat the grapes or grains?"


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## sierra11b (Jan 7, 2011)

mlb212 said:


> One of the members around here has a great signature that speaks to patience and that good things take some time...
> 
> "If people had to have everything immediately I wonder where the world would be now? Why would we even need watches in a world of now? Would we have finely aged wines and scotches? Why not just eat the grapes or grains?"


I actually quoted that from another member because of its absurdity. 

Scotch distilleries and winemakers deliver a product on frequent basis or risk closure of running dry. Once established both deliver on a yearly basis whether it be their own bottling, leasing their vineyards, malting barley, or serving as a blending component for a larger entity. Young distilleries have to typically wait years before delivering a worthwhile product and their livelihood is never guaranteed in the interim.

Some young distilleries release limited runs of spirit nowhere near a norm statement of say 8-10 years, and in some cases not legally scotch, but good enough to sell in order to portray promise and to generate revenue. My point is they're always delivering some sort of product and conveying hope... I fail to see the connection for a 4 year watch project still on the drawing board?


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## MikeCfromLI (Jan 6, 2012)

The concept of homages to 'out of print' watches does that go out the window if omega makes a reissue or say Rolex did a millisub?


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## dece33 (Jul 24, 2006)

Just checked into this thread after not looking at MKII for about a year. 4 years you guys are waiting for this watch? That's crazy, fellas. Bill makes nice watches, but ask yourself if you would put up with this kind of business practice from anyone else.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

***** said:


> It's a shame really. I like the bezel a lot and would really like to see a full homage of the earlier SM300 166.014 with the proper dial and hands.


:think: Yes, I like that bezel too... And the blue Lume is great... I'll keep waiting - patiently. :roll:


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## Darwin (Jan 28, 2012)

I'm not in on the pre-order for this watch. Wish that I was. These are watches, luxury items. I have dozens of watches that I love and obsess over; waiting for a single watch to be developed and produced would hardly inconvenience me, especially when I have complete faith that Bill will deliver. If anyone gets tired of the wait, or their tastes/wants/needs change, there're no shortage of people who would happily buy their spot in line. Really, I think part of the fun is the anticipation... FWIW, I am waiting on three preorders from other watchmakers, one of which had me pay a deposit. I'm well into my second year of waiting for two of them and approaching a year on the third. I'm not worried. It took me two years to track down a Kingston and I am enjoying wearing it and other watches in my collection. People wait years for their finances to enable them to afford a pariticular watch they're after or a rare model to become available. I don't see this as being that different.

First world problems indeed.



dece33 said:


> Just checked into this thread after not looking at MKII for about a year. 4 years you guys are waiting for this watch? That's crazy, fellas. Bill makes nice watches, but ask yourself if you would put up with this kind of business practice from anyone else.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

dece33 said:


> Just checked into this thread after not looking at MKII for about a year. 4 years you guys are waiting for this watch? That's crazy, fellas. Bill makes nice watches, but ask yourself if you would put up with this kind of business practice from anyone else.


:think: I have asked myself, and; "Yes" - I would. In fact, I already have, over the course of many years, and for other things that I wanted, I have done the same several times. *Good results are worth the wait.*

:think: I came late to the Project 300 - only (almost) 3 years waiting....:-d

:think: But I don't mind that at all; Certainly, not as much, as you *'critics'* :-| with your snarky remarks... :-x

about what I consider to be, *'My choice, and my business.'* ;-)

-That is All-


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## mlb212 (Sep 17, 2013)

MikeCfromLI said:


> The concept of homages to 'out of print' watches does that go out the window if omega makes a reissue or say Rolex did a millisub?


No


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## Jcp311 (Mar 20, 2013)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: I have asked myself, and; "Yes" - I would. In fact, I already have, over the course of many years, and for other things that I wanted, I have done the same several times. *Good results are worth the wait.*
> 
> :think: I came late to the Project 300 - only (almost) 3 years waiting....:-d
> 
> ...


My question to you would be is the snark and criticism deserved? This wait is fairly unprecedented, even for a micro. Bill always delivers and no one should call into question his devotion to the art. But at this point I think it's a question of priorities on his part. Guys who bought into this project deserve better than a 4 year wait with no apparent end in sight.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

Jcp311 said:


> My question to you would be is the snark and criticism deserved? This wait is fairly unprecedented, even for a micro. Bill always delivers and no one should call into question his devotion to the art. But at this point I think it's a question of priorities on his part. Guys who bought into this project deserve better than a 4 year wait with no apparent end in sight.


:think: Fair enough: Please explain to me then, how these kind of biting remarks or criticism will effect any positive change on the situation - Does it improve the situation in any way? How do the remarks made thus far make it more likely that the watch will come sooner to those who decided to participate? :-s

I can't speak to what is going on in Bill Yao's head or life or MKII's business, that may be affecting the timing and completion of this project, but then, when I made the decision to put money on it, I think I made an informed, educated decision based on the history of another project at MKII, which was the Kingston. I really had no expectation as far as the timing of the steps toward completion of the project, other than what Mr. Yao had provided at the outset. But really, based on the history of the Kingston, I never really expected that he would meet his proposed schedule. In other words, the history of other MKII Projects and just the way 'Murphy's Law' tends to operate, things have a tendency to go longer in duration than they were originally guessed at. :roll:

I noticed early on (for me - before I signed on as a 'plank owner') that Project 300 has had some trouble all along the way: After it was already noticeably behind the posted schedule, Mr. Yao chose to change the pre-order criteria because not enough people were signing on at the start. So he allowed us who were participating as 'Plankers' to participate in the decision to continue. I would add that, all along, anyone who wanted to opt out, could always get their pre-order money back, and some have. That is their decision - I have made a different one, and chose to wait. I think the wait will be worth it.

So, I don't think these remarks above are 'deserved' or productive. And I also think that these spurts of snarky criticism that pop out from time-to-time only serve as unnecessary and unproductive distraction - any distraction or an 'inflamed debate' about the matter will only serve to eat up even more time. I like to think I am a patient, reasonable man, so why would I do something to change that? :-s

I don't know if "I deserve better...." -this is what I sort of expected. I am satisfied with things so far - If I was not satisfied, I would most likely 'vote with my feet' and withdraw - that would allow me what I would need. If I chose to do that, I would do so, quietly - rather than dump a bunch of criticism on the forum, in turn potentially making things more difficult and lengthy for those that choose to remain.

I would like Mr. Yao to be able to focus on his business and his goals, not to have to send out unnecessary updates or information that I really do not need or want - I am trusting him with those decisions, and to provide information as he deems necessary.

If it is warranted, or will serve some positive purpose in moving things forward toward completion, then, please leave the decision to, and the task and manner of criticizing, to those who are truly participating, not to disgruntled spectators or critics who pop in from time to time to take a dump and then leave.

-My two cents worth- ;-)


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## sierra11b (Jan 7, 2011)

The problem is there's never a deadline. I swear Yao should give up watch making and start his own church. He's only done one watch project, people!


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## Jcp311 (Mar 20, 2013)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> :think: Fair enough: Please explain to me then, how these kind of biting remarks or criticism will effect any positive change on the situation - Does it improve the situation in any way? How do the remarks made thus far make it more likely that the watch will come sooner to those who decided to participate? :-s
> 
> I can't speak to what is going on in Bill Yao's head or life or MKII's business, that may be affecting the timing and completion of this project, but then, when I made the decision to put money on it, I think I made an informed, educated decision based on the history of another project at MKII, which was the Kingston. I really had no expectation as far as the timing of the steps toward completion of the project, other than what Mr. Yao had provided at the outset. But really, based on the history of the Kingston, I never really expected that he would meet his proposed schedule. In other words, the history of other MKII Projects and just the way 'Murphy's Law' tends to operate, things have a tendency to go longer in duration than they were originally guessed at. :roll:
> 
> ...


We'll agree to disagree then...I think healthy criticism and debate is very important given the circumstances of this particular project. You can't for one second call anyone here impatient, or overly critical for venting some very valid feelings on the matter. Smothering debate under the pretense that "it doesn't help anything..imo" isn't a good enough reason to stop discussing the project, or how it's progressing. I agree it shouldn't turn into a cesspool of vitriol, which is far from what this thread has been thus far.

There has to be some accountability on the part of Bill. I say that with the upmost respect for what he does. However in looking at the future of MkII projects I'm beginning to have a difficult time justifying any sort of pre-order. I really do look forward to the Stingray II, but I'm hesitant until I see a realistic, clear schedule from start to finish.

This is his business and he can run it however he wants it. I just worry things like this drive away current and potential MkII fans.

Just my two cents, nothing personal.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

sierra11b said:


> The problem is there's never a deadline. I swear Yao should give up watch making and start his own church. He's only done one watch project, people!


*You must have trouble counting- *

or you don't consider the Quad 10s, Sea Fighters, Tornek-Rayville 1000s, Blackwaters, Sting Rays, *LRRP's*, Paradives, Nassaus, and Fulcrums, and the PMWF GMT watches to be individual development Projects- :-s

Not to mention the 'Project 300' and 'Key West' which are, even now, undergoing continuing development-


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

Jcp311 said:


> We'll agree to disagree then...I think healthy criticism and debate is very important given the circumstances of this particular project. You can't for one second call anyone here impatient, or overly critical for venting some very valid feelings on the matter. Smothering debate under the pretense that "it doesn't help anything..imo" isn't a good enough reason to stop discussing the project, or how it's progressing. I agree it shouldn't turn into a cesspool of vitriol, which is far from what this thread has been thus far.
> 
> There has to be some accountability on the part of Bill. I say that with the upmost respect for what he does. However in looking at the future of MkII projects I'm beginning to have a difficult time justifying any sort of pre-order. I really do look forward to the Stingray II, but I'm hesitant until I see a realistic, clear schedule from start to finish.
> 
> ...


I answered your question to me; so, please do me the courtesy of answering my questions to you:



> Fair enough: Please explain to me then, how these kind of biting remarks or criticism will effect any positive change on the situation - Does it improve the situation in any way? How do the remarks made thus far make it more likely that the watch will come sooner to those who decided to participate?


:think: My opinion is that *"biting remarks or criticism" by themselves*; are not productive or constructive , and _*can do* *nothing*_ to advance *any* Project.

You write of 'healthy debate' - I don't see where there is *anything* to debate. The decisions; any decisions to be made; are up to Mr. Yao - they belong to him, and him alone. It is not our place to debate anything unless Mr. Yao asks those of us *who are participating in the subject Project* to submit an opinion to him. I trust Bill Yao, to ultimately make the decisions to bring about these fantastic little machines.

I believe the only type of criticism that should exist here, could only be *Constructive Criticism*: And that would be criticism that:

a) Identifies and defines a *specific problem* so that it is generally agreed that there *is* a specific identifiable problem that has a realistic solution; _*and*_

b) Proposes a *realistic, practical solution* that is possible, given the circumstances that already exist and that are not otherwise able to be changed.

I have no problem with anyone having a discussion, and I would not agree that discussion in this thread has been stifled or 'smothered'.

-Anyway-

-_That is All for now...._


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## mlb212 (Sep 17, 2013)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> *You must have trouble counting- *
> 
> or you don't consider the Quad 10s, Sea Fighters, Tornek-Rayville 1000s, Blackwaters, Sting Rays, Paradives, Nassaus, and Fulcrums, and the PMWF GMT watches to be individual development Projects- :-s
> 
> Not to mention the 'Project 300' and 'Key West' which are, even now, undergoing continuing development-


Don't confuse them with the facts. Congrats on your Kingston plank BTW.


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> a) Identifies and defines a *specific problem* so that it is generally agreed that there *is* a specific identifiable problem that has a realistic solution; _*and*_
> 
> b) Proposes a *realistic, practical solution* that is possible, given the circumstances that already exist and that are not otherwise able to be changed.


I think the biggest problem, for me, has been the inconsistent or complete lack of communication. I would love a regular message (monthly? fortnightly?) to let us know what has progressed on our project and what is coming up. I work in software, and the biggest complaint I get from Customers isn't about the time it takes to get resolutions, it's always about the communication. Said another way, regular communication, even about little or no actual progress, goes a long way to reduce stress/angst/impatience on the part of the Customer.

A clear schedule. I think a schedule would help us know where we are in the process and it would help Mr. Yao balance his work load. I'm not asking for complete transparency, but some rough time boxes for different phases (caseback design, dial design, etc, etc) would help. Also clarity around where other projects fit in. I remember a very long "quiet" period, and at the end of it, the Fulcrum popped out with a note saying, "sorry for the delay to other projects, but we have to pay the bills." I completely get that and I don't begrudge, at all, the need to balance the business. But I would have been less bothered, if I had known, earlier, that this was going on. Maybe this one is on me, for not reading all the threads. I think the project pages on the website are a good start, but I don't know if they are accurate. According to the website, Project GMT is in production, but no one on the GMT thread thinks it really is, so more confusion then help.

As investors in these projects, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for this information.


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## OmegaCosmicMan (Apr 1, 2011)

BigHaole said:


> I think the biggest problem, for me, has been the inconsistent or complete lack of communication. I would love a regular message (monthly? fortnightly?) to let us know what has progressed on our project and what is coming up. I work in software, and the biggest complaint I get from Customers isn't about the time it takes to get resolutions, it's always about the communication. Said another way, regular communication, even about little or no actual progress, goes a long way to reduce stress/angst/impatience on the part of the Customer.
> 
> A clear schedule. I think a schedule would help us know where we are in the process and it would help Mr. Yao balance his work load. I'm not asking for complete transparency, but some rough time boxes for different phases (caseback design, dial design, etc, etc) would help. Also clarity around where other projects fit in. I remember a very long "quiet" period, and at the end of it, the Fulcrum popped out with a note saying, "sorry for the delay to other projects, but we have to pay the bills." I completely get that and I don't begrudge, at all, the need to balance the business. But I would have been less bothered, if I had known, earlier, that this was going on. Maybe this one is on me, for not reading all the threads. I think the project pages on the website are a good start, but I don't know if they are accurate. According to the website, Project GMT is in production, but no one on the GMT thread thinks it really is, so more confusion then help.
> 
> As investors in these projects, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for this information.


At Last, an informed discussion! 

While I won't disagree with what you have written, and I can identify with you; I will add this for your consideration:

*It all depends on your point of view.* And that, in turn, will shape and influence your identification and perception, about whether or not there is a problem, and if there exists a reasonable, viable solution to the issue that has been identified.

Assume this for one watch project only (to keep it simple - don't consider other projects in some phase of design or development, or any other products currently available that may need to be serviced, supported with replacement parts or accessories, or overseen as far as ongoing production - To keep it Simple)

What if *you alone* find yourself in charge of: concept and overall design, design and production of component specifications and drawings, sourcing of components, planning, financing, scheduling, receipt and inventory of multiple component types from different vendors, communication with component vendors / subcontractors, further development because of changes/delays/unavailability, a failure of a critical part to meet some specification that somehow got overlooked; assembly, testing, shipment out to and delivery to customers, and ongoing communication with potential customers and pre-ordered buyers (who all may feel that 'you-owe-them-something' -and all of those individual's needs for attention may be different) - And in the middle of it all, some dirtbag(s) break into your shop (and steal prototypes and other things and throw everything else in disarray while they turn the place over....)- See how complex this puzzle gets? and quickly too-

So, Let's say you decide your problems include the above and that there is just not enough *time* in the day to get all of these things accomplished. So you have identified a *lack of time* or too much to do - What do you do then? Well, you need more time. So you bring in or arrange for an association with another skilled person to take some of the workload - but that may also create another demand on *Your time *- Administration of the work that is shared with the 'new' entity, so that takes some time, so while there may be small net gain in allowable time, it is also a new time demand of a different sort. So this all weighs on you....it tends to to distract you, because it is just always there.

Now, let's assume you decide to *spend *more of your time for communication with those customers who are demanding that you do so - and (if you are like me) what seemed like a relatively simple task or subject ends up with you spending half an hour at the keyboard on one subject, and *you still have things that need to get done, today*. See how fast it can go?

It all depends on your point of view... ;-)

-Best-

Have a Good Day-

p.s. A long time ago, I worked for a really good guy (a foreman) who knew How to Get the Job Done. He worked us hard, a crew of four or five - I always said to him, "Rome wasn't built in a day, but you weren't foreman on that job either...."  I loved working for that guy - Then I got a foreman's job of my own, and I had a fairly large Project (for the Government) with two of our own crews to manage and some people from a separate subcontractor also -- We had to keep an existing system operating while we constructed a new one over, under and through the one we had to keep operating...What an Education I received!! (I was Blind, but Now I see! ha ha ha ) :-d
_
Put yourself in the other fellows shoes...._


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## sierra11b (Jan 7, 2011)

OmegaCosmicMan said:


> *You must have trouble counting- *
> 
> or you don't consider the Quad 10s, Sea Fighters, Tornek-Rayville 1000s, Blackwaters, Sting Rays, *LRRP's*, Paradives, Nassaus, and Fulcrums, and the PMWF GMT watches to be individual development Projects- :-s
> 
> Not to mention the 'Project 300' and 'Key West' which are, even now, undergoing continuing development-



That's what you guys are calling it now... "undergoing continuing development"

I was under the presumption the only comparable project to the 300 was the Kingston in that it required a deposit, design input, endless wait, etc. The other watches were just catalog offerings from Yao? I'll give it to Yao that his early offerings were special enough to spark my interest with the Seafighter and even the LRRP (I loved my seafighter and wish I still had it for a beater), but now he just moves the date location and gives a watch a different name. Then again he seemed a lot more interested in his brand back then and willing to communicate.


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## JohnF (Feb 11, 2006)

A friendly word from your friendly moderator: this forum is not the place to discuss MKII business philosophy, plans or development. That is clearly stated at the top of this forum in the sticky notes.

Failure to abide by the rules of this forum do bring repercussions.

That is all. I am not deleting or closing any threads or posts, but will do so if the rules are not followed. Consider this a friendly admonishment...

JohnF
Moderator-at-large, MKII Moderator, Vintages Moderator, Pilot-Military Watches Moderator


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## TheDude (Jan 27, 2009)

I have said this before, but things get buried on forums. 

Be careful what you wish for. I bought a boutique watch from a guy in Australia. He kept us over informed. It really wasn't any better hearing about countless factory screwups and cases that wouldn't pass pressure tests. 

I have no idea what Bill experiences during the course of making a watch, but knowing wouldn't help. At all. I'm actually grateful to be insulated from the headaches. 

I'll say it before and I'll say it again, you have to have a lot of patience to be a MkII customer. That's not a slight, it's just fact. The guys who complain would probably be happier buying a watch second hand once they're done or consider an alternative. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## BigHaole (Jun 1, 2011)

TheDude, you're the dream Customer!


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## enkidu (Mar 26, 2010)

TheDude said:


> I have said this before, but things get buried on forums.
> 
> Be careful what you wish for. I bought a boutique watch from a guy in Australia. He kept us over informed. It really wasn't any better hearing about countless factory screwups and cases that wouldn't pass pressure tests.
> 
> ...


Hey Dude, I used to follow a boutique (possibly the same one) with a similar MO; some of the whine^H^H^H^H^Hcomments ended up leaving a bad taste in my mouth and I ended up passing on ordering.

Given the amazing quality of the Kingston, I'm very willing to wait for the Project300 to show up in my box.


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## americandave (Jan 31, 2011)

I can't see how this Project will be built when there's been no mention of it by bill in months


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## song31 (Mar 31, 2007)

he has alot going on and, while its tough on the nerves, I noticed he does tend to get projects done-albeit on his time- I imagine it will be an awesome timepiece as well


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## brucers99 (Dec 31, 2010)

americandave said:


> I can't see how this Project will be built when there's been no mention of it by bill in months


I for one will wait as long as it takes. Watches are a hobby, not a necessity. If I was waiting for a heart transplant, it would be a different story.


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## kamonjj (Dec 26, 2012)

I'm still wishing for a Nassau with date. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## americandave (Jan 31, 2011)

Well, there's a drawing of P300 now - what was the time for the Kingston from drawing to production?


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## Knoc (Feb 10, 2012)

kamonjj said:


> I'm still wishing for a Nassau with date.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm there with ya.


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## TheDude (Jan 27, 2009)

americandave said:


> Well, there's a drawing of P300 now - what was the time for the Kingston from drawing to production?


Not to be snarky but do you want the answer in terms of months or years?

It was years from drawing to shipment but it's impossible to know if it will take care that long with the 300.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## mrklabb (Mar 23, 2014)

TheDude said:


> Not to be snarky but do you want the answer in terms of months or years?
> 
> It was years from drawing to shipment but it's impossible to know if it will take care that long with the 300.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I'd venture to guess years.


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## americandave (Jan 31, 2011)

Do you think the drawing was legitimately four years worth of work? Seems to me it's fair for a waiting customer to question that kind of thing


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## Darwin (Jan 28, 2012)

I have a Watchco SM300 and it is GORGEOUS. I could see getting an homage right taking years. Bill's Kingston/Nassau homages to the Rolex 6538 took years to perfect and the devil is in the details - compare these watches to other homages and you'll quickly see that the subtleties make MKII watches.


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