# Induction chargers that work with Seiko Kinetic



## ptwang (Dec 15, 2010)

It seems that Energy Supply's kinetic charger is discontinued, and the available stock remains very pricey ($230-ish). I'm wondering what are the alternatives for those of us who only wear Seiko kinetic occasionally.

Some people have some success with toothbrush chargers, but seeing that there are a lot more induction chargers available now, I thought maybe it's time to start a thread to keep track of people's experiments. Currently I'm aware of the following chargers but haven't personally tried them:

(1) Wii controller chargers. For example, Energizer made something called flat panel for Wii.
(2) Powermat or other iphone induction chargers.
(3) MTM Special Ops watches come with their own induction chargers which can be purchased separately directly from them. I'm wondering if they will work for Seiko kinetic.
(4) Fossil also made a line of watches with their own induction chargers: has anyone tried them on the Kinetics?

All of the above options, if they work, would be significantly cheaper than getting a dedicated Seiko charger like the Energy Supply ones:-d


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## rfwhite (Jun 13, 2010)

I would be interested in reading about any trials of these devices. I also have problem keeping my Seiko Kinetic charged as I only wear it about every ten days.


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## ptwang (Dec 15, 2010)

I tried to charge my 5m42 caliber with a sonicare elite charger without any luck. I had the watch case facing up and with the crown in the 12 o'clock and then the 6 o'clock position. The watch wasn't even warm (which was supposed to happen if it's charging), so I gave up.

Has anyone tried something similar? Anyone?


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## ptwang (Dec 15, 2010)

Okay, I've some news to report. I bought a charging stand from the Dakota Watch Company (google Dakota Watch REQ charging stand and you'll find the product) which I believe is made by Ricoh Elemex Corp--less than $30 shipped. Rumor has it, this is the same charger for the MTM special ops line of watches. I placed my Seiko SKH060 (5m42, original capacitor replaced with Maxell li-on battery) on it the way you would normally charge the Dakota line of watches (case face up). After 2 hours, I checked the indicator and got no improvements. I turned the Seiko 180 degree and tried again--still nothing. Then I opened the charging stand, and saw that the coil was located at the dead center. This time I moved the Seiko off center slightly so that one of the coils in the watch would lie across the center of the charger. 5 minutes later, bingo! The indicator moved from 20 unit to 30. I don't know how much the battery is charged within that time, since the indicator was designed for the original capacitor (holds 7-14 days worth of power), not the new rechargeable battery (6 months on full), but it's certainly doing something. I think I'll leave the watch on the charger overnight. Hopefully, Seiko has some kind of over-charging prevention mechanism. I don't know if there's any risk to this experiment. I just thought I'd share my observations. YMMV.


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## WNUT (Oct 20, 2006)

Thanks - that's good to know. I had given up on using a charger because of the cost.
I'll have to check that Dakota charger out!


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## SeikoPete (Nov 20, 2010)

ptwang:

Please update when you have more info. Thanks.


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## ptwang (Dec 15, 2010)

Three days later...indicator still shows full charge (30 units). Watch ticks happily and accurately; no discernable ill effects.


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## ytwokc5 (Apr 13, 2009)

ptwang said:


> Three days later...indicator still shows full charge (30 units). Watch ticks happily and accurately; no discernable ill effects.


I was so excited when I saw your post. I have a 5m42 kinetic and I also replaced the capacitor with a lithium battery. I don't wear out often enough to give it much of a charge. My dakota charger arrived today. How exactly did you position your watch? I didn't do the battery replacement myself, so l am not sure where it is on the case. Do I place out off center with the 3 facing the stand or do I face the 9 towards the stand? Thanks for finding this. I have been looking for an economical solution to this for awhile.

You also mentioned charging case up. Did you charge case up or crystal up?


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## ptwang (Dec 15, 2010)

ytwokc5 said:


> I was so excited when I saw your post. I have a 5m42 kinetic and I also replaced the capacitor with a lithium battery. I don't wear out often enough to give it much of a charge. My dakota charger arrived today. How exactly did you position your watch? I didn't do the battery replacement myself, so l am not sure where it is on the case. Do I place out off center with the 3 facing the stand or do I face the 9 towards the stand? Thanks for finding this. I have been looking for an economical solution to this for awhile.
> 
> You also mentioned charging case up. Did you charge case up or crystal up?


The position of the battery doesn't matter; it's the coils that must be positioned close to the center. There's a see-thru back on my skh-060, and I can see two coils. One of them runs along the imaginary line from the crown to about the 35 or 40-minute mark. I placed the watch off-centered on the charger so that this line comes very close to the center of the charger. Experiment a little bit to see what works for you.

Hope this helps.


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## Steadyhands (Sep 18, 2010)

Thanks for the info, might pick up a Dakota Watch charging stand myself.


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## ptwang (Dec 15, 2010)

Okay, indicator went down from 30 units to 20 units after about 4-5 days. I wonder if 8-hour of charge is not long enough. Some Dakota and MTM watches require charging up to 36 hours according to their instructions. I guess the up side of this is that the charger has low enough voltage to be safe for Seikos. My Seiko got slightly warm when it's been charged, never hot like it's been reported by owners of Energy Suppliers.


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## ytwokc5 (Apr 13, 2009)

Updating my earlier post. I am happy to report that ptwang's find of the Dakota Watch REQ induction charger is a cost effective solution to charging my Seiko kinetic. I have an older 5m42 movement and had replaced the capacitors with a lithium battery about a year and half ago. The charge indicator on my watch is on the right side of the face (between 12 and 4 with 4 progressively larger sections indicating the charge level. After fiddling around with the placement of my watch on the REQ charger and leaving it on the charger for appox 1.5 weeks, my charge indicator is up to the 3rd hash mark, one more section to go to get a full charge. My caseback is solid and I did not do the battery replacement myself, so it was a guess as to the location of the coils inside the case. I suspect it took so long because I would periodically check the status of the charge and place the watch back on the charger probably in a position where the coils were not on top of the charger.

Thanks again ptwang!


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## Ed P. (Aug 5, 2009)

ptwang said:


> Okay, I've some news to report. I bought a charging stand from the Dakota Watch Company (google Dakota Watch REQ charging stand and you'll find the product) which I believe is made by Ricoh Elemex Corp--less than $30 shipped. Rumor has it, this is the same charger for the MTM special ops line of watches. I placed my Seiko SKH060 (5m42, original capacitor replaced with Maxell li-on battery) on it the way you would normally charge the Dakota line of watches (case face up). After 2 hours, I checked the indicator and got no improvements. I turned the Seiko 180 degree and tried again--still nothing. Then I opened the charging stand, and saw that the coil was located at the dead center. This time I moved the Seiko off center slightly so that one of the coils in the watch would lie across the center of the charger. 5 minutes later, bingo! The indicator moved from 20 unit to 30. I don't know how much the battery is charged within that time, since the indicator was designed for the original capacitor (holds 7-14 days worth of power), not the new rechargeable battery (6 months on full), but it's certainly doing something. I think I'll leave the watch on the charger overnight. Hopefully, Seiko has some kind of over-charging prevention mechanism. I don't know if there's any risk to this experiment. I just thought I'd share my observations. YMMV.


I just got one of these chargers, to charge my Seiko BFK and Caesar Kinetics. They have the 5M62 movement, and so far I haven't had much luck getting them to charge. When you opened your charger, what shape was the coil, and how was it oriented? Thanks in advance for the info., it will save me from having to take mine apart!


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## ptwang (Dec 15, 2010)

Coil of the charger sits vertically and at dead center.


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## timeparadox (Oct 7, 2010)

Thanks for the info!
I ordered the charger based on the success discussed here. Got it for 17$. Would this be the way to place the watch on the charger? I don't have a way to test for sure since it's become my main watch and it's stays at 6 months reserve. It tried to imagine the coil on the imaginary line between 8 and 10 o'clock and place that line at dead center on the charger..

Thanks again.


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## wheelswon (May 22, 2011)

Thanks to this thread, I too purchased a Dakota REQ. Now I just have to get it to work consistently. I have been trying multiple positions and both crystal up and crystal down with my 5M43 that still has a capacitor. Once I got lucky and the indicator went from 5 seconds to 10 so I know that the problem is positioning. The 2 visible coils are from 5 to 7 and 8 to 10. The question that I have is whether the 'vertically' positioning of the mentioned above be parallel with the line created by the plug in connection or not.

Thanks


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## berni29 (Sep 8, 2007)

Hi, 

I used a Braun toothbrush base with my discharged but upgraded (to lithium cell) Scubamaster Stingray SBCW003 with the face down and the top of the charger at the 10 O'Clock mark. It was charging for about 10hrs.

The watch was completely discharged and now shows 10 seconds when hitting the reserve button. I plan to put it back on the charger again tonight and get it to 20 seconds. It is possible to overcharge the Lithium cell so that will be good enough. I also have the same watch with a yellow face (SBCW005 I think) which has been discharged for over 2 years having been upgraded to Lithium. A bad idea I now know. I will try that one on the charger as soon as I can.

These watches are a nightmare to keep working if they are occasional use only so the toothbrush charger is going to be great! I would order the Dakota one, but they are out of stock and I live in HK.

All the best

Berni


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## Olegis (Oct 17, 2010)

Hi Berni,

I'm really interested in this setup because I too happen to own a Braun toothbrush with the induction charger. Can you please post a picture showing the positioning of the watch and the charger ? Thanks in advance.


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## jon pierce (May 15, 2008)

WOW--my dakota induction charger arrived yesterday, $25.00 incl UPS shipping, and it DOES WORK VERY WELL!! thanks for all the great info guys. i have 3 kenetics and i dont wear any of them often so they are always DEAD when i need them. i was ready to sell all of them til this charger arrived. i pulled one out of my watch case, it was 100% DEAD, hasnt been worn in nearly a year and laid it on the dakota charger. within 5 min it was running with the 2 second movement!! after 8 hours--overnight-- it is now running normal. is that fantastic--FINALLY a way to keep em charged. i am going to give it plenty of time to charge before i hit the battery check button, i will report my results later.


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## tiha (Jul 15, 2011)

I can't find Dakota Charger on the eBay. What is the correct name for that thing?


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## jon pierce (May 15, 2008)

its NOT on ebay--google dakota watch.com, then look for the REQ charging stand. it is $16.95 plus 8-9.00 for UPS shipping. arrived pretty fast, i live in georgia, usa.


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## jon pierce (May 15, 2008)

after 2 days--48 hr--my dead seiko battery indicator has gone up to "2". looks like it must take about 24 hr to move one position, so i hope a full charge will take approx 6 days. we shall see,as i have 2 other dead ones to charge!!


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## tanwill (Jun 15, 2010)

Its interesting.
Too bad when i tried to buy the REQ charging stand....... the shipping to my country <singapore> is USD 47 !!


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## peakay (Feb 5, 2011)

Just tried my old 5M42-0A30 on my Braun toothbrush charger, it hasn't been ticking for about 3 months and within 10 minutes of placing it on the charger it has started ticking.









I have it on a Zulu strap which made things easier; I'm going to check it regularly at first to make sure it's not getting too hot, and then see how long it needs to fully charge?

The ideal position is possibly with 7 on the dial at the bottom which is directly between the 2 coils, but that is a bit impractical.

BTW: it does have the Li-on cell upgrade.

Update: it may also work just balancing the watch on top of the charger base, as I moved it to this position after 20mins and it's still warm after another 10-15mins; I guess it will need some experimentation to find the best position.


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## peakay (Feb 5, 2011)

After the initial charge with the watch positioned as seen the the photo above, I moved it to sit flat and left it for a total of about 3.5 hours and after pressing the button the charge indicator goes round to 4 on the dial, so I'm now going to leave it to see how long the charge lasts.


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## jon pierce (May 15, 2008)

full charge took about 9-10 days from dead to full. a little slower than i expected BUT it sure beats shaking the watc about 9,000 friggin times!! my other 2 are next on the charger. at least thet will ALL be ready when i pull them out to wear. this dakota charger is fantastic and sure solves a big problem, at a VERY reasonable cost! positioning of the watch on the charger didnt seem to be a critical problem. i put my in about the same place as the pic above of the black diver. charger only got a TINY bit warm even after 10 days. TRY IT----YOU WILL LIKE IT!!!!!


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## jon pierce (May 15, 2008)

i must not have placed the first watch exactly correct, probably why it took so long to charge up. second one only took a couple of days to full charge!! first one was a steel case back, second one is a glassback, maybe there is some difference there. third one, a steel back diver goes on charge tomorrow--time will tell!!


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## peakay (Feb 5, 2011)

An update on the Braun Toothbrush induction charger; after 3.5 hours on the charger the watch has lasted, without being worn for about 9 days before going to the double tick low power indicator, so it works but needs much longer for a full charge.

It is may only advisable for occasional use as I don't know what the power rating is compared to the Seiko charger, the Braun says 1W output, so I don't know if regular use could potentially damage the lithium cell?

Found this charging info for the REQ:

Charge: 36 hours - Will run for: 1 year
Charge: 8 hours - Will run for: 3 months
Charge: 5-10mins - Will run for: 1 day

Anyone with a Seiko or REQ charger care to let me know what the output is?


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## RickShelton (Oct 12, 2011)

Just received the REQ charger from Dakota Watch and have my Seiko 5M42-0A19 on there for 3 hours and it doesn't seem to be charging. I have replaced the old capacitor with the lithium ion battery in the watch....

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Rick


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## timeparadox (Oct 7, 2010)

If someone can post pictures of the actual positions that worked on the REQ (and other chargers), it would be helpful. My battery is always near full and I can't spend a lot of days without wearing the pvd BFK. It's hard to monitor how to charge it. I think I did have success once though. going from "4" to "6" overnight.


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## RickShelton (Oct 12, 2011)

timeparadox said:


> If someone can post pictures of the actual positions that worked on the REQ (and other chargers), it would be helpful. My battery is always near full and I can't spend a lot of days without wearing the pvd BFK. It's hard to monitor how to charge it. I think I did have success once though. going from "4" to "6" overnight.


Well I placed mine on the charger like you had yours in your earlier post and left it for 24 hrs and it is at the 3 oclock position now from a completely dead battery. So it does work, just takes time lol,,

Rick


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## timeparadox (Oct 7, 2010)

RickShelton said:


> Well I placed mine on the charger like you had yours in your earlier post and left it for 24 hrs and it is at the 3 oclock position now from a completely dead battery. So it does work, just takes time lol,,
> 
> Rick


Thanks for confirming! That means it gives the watch about a month of charge in 24hrs.


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## RickShelton (Oct 12, 2011)

timeparadox said:


> Thanks for confirming! That means it gives the watch about a month of charge in 24hrs.


Yes, it may be a little slow but it beats the heck out of swinging the watch 

Rick


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## timeparadox (Oct 7, 2010)

RickShelton said:


> Yes, it may be a little slow but it beats the heck out of swinging the watch
> 
> Rick


Absolutely! That's a game changer for the Kinetic watches imho.


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## justsellbrgs (Jan 31, 2008)

princeton watches has seiko kinetic chargers, not many, but they have them...


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## tanwill (Jun 15, 2010)

$229 from princeton watches !!


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## Olegis (Oct 17, 2010)

My Braun induction charger does not seem to work with my kinetic, no matter how I place the watch or how much time I wait (I tried various positions, each for at least 24 hours). 
:-(


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## peakay (Feb 5, 2011)

Olegis said:


> My Braun induction charger does not seem to work with my kinetic, no matter how I place the watch or how much time I wait (I tried various positions, each for at least 24 hours).
> :-(


Does it have a capacitor or the lithium rechargeable battery? If it has the old capacitor then it probably is unable to hold a charge anymore?


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## peakay (Feb 5, 2011)

tanwill said:


> $229 from princeton watches !!


Buy a Braun toothbrush, it works for me!

PS. As an update to my Braun toothbrush induction charger posts further up the thread; after a month (without being worn) it is still going to 4 on the power reserve indicator.


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## ORANGEm0ney (Sep 28, 2011)

Is this the watch charger that you guys are talking about? Does it work?

https://dakota.webfeatsecurity.com/chosenwatch.aspx?ProdID=667


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## timeparadox (Oct 7, 2010)

ORANGEm0ney said:


> Is this the watch charger that you guys are talking about? Does it work?
> 
> https://dakota.webfeatsecurity.com/chosenwatch.aspx?ProdID=667


Yep! that's the one and it works!


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## RickShelton (Oct 12, 2011)

Just have to leave it on there for a few days to get to the 4 month mark.

Cheers,
Rick


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## peakay (Feb 5, 2011)

Update to using my Braun toothbrush induction charger; my watch has now gone to double tick after 6 weeks, which was from a 24hr charge and not being worn; so I think 36 or 48 hrs should get me 3-6 months of charge?


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## onrypt (Feb 18, 2007)

Do you gentlemen know if this will work with a 5J22 Kinetic Auto-Relay?
I have two of the SMA-0** series and would like to get the Dakota Charger to top them off.
Additionally does anyone know where the coil sits on this model?
Thanks so much!
C.


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## timeparadox (Oct 7, 2010)

onrypt said:


> Do you gentlemen know if this will work with a 5J22 Kinetic Auto-Relay?
> I have two of the SMA-0** series and would like to get the Dakota Charger to top them off.
> Additionally does anyone know where the coil sits on this model?
> Thanks so much!
> C.


The good news is that it's it possible to charge by induction, as seen as the marking on the seiko charger.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b286/PoweredbyHonda/SeikoKineticEnergySupplierYT02A.jpg

Looking at this borrowed pic, we can maybe work out where the coil is on the 5J22. On my BFK (5M movement) we think the "charging" coil sits between the 8 and 10 O'clock marquers. On the pic, we can see the position how I would need to place my watch so it could charge. So we can locate where the "charging device" is on the seiko charger and figure out where the charging coil is on 5J movement by looking at the drawings that show how to place each model of kinetic. Maybe between 3 and 5 o'clock ? I could be wrong.. Give it a try. Good luck!


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## Hong Jia (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi,

Can anyone kind enough to help me get this charger and ship to my forwarder address? The website does not accept any overseas credit card apart from US. I can do a fund transfer via paypal.

Thanks.


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## timeparadox (Oct 7, 2010)

Hong Jia said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone kind enough to help me get this charger and ship to my forwarder address? The website does not accept any overseas credit card apart from US. I can do a fund transfer via paypal.
> 
> Thanks.


Just providing this as an option since stumble upon it this week, recommended by the countycomm web site: MyUS.com - MyUS.com - Top Rated Package and Mail Forwarding


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## junlon (Dec 30, 2007)

Dakota REQ charging stand price has gone up quite a bit to $49.95 at Dakota website - see the link. Anyone has any idea where to get a cheaper one? Thanks.
REQ Charging Stand


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## sjb (Aug 7, 2007)

rfwhite said:


> I would be interested in reading about any trials of these devices. I also have problem keeping my Seiko Kinetic charged as I only wear it about every ten days.


I rarely wear mine.However I find if I shake it for about a minute every day or 2 it keeps it going.


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## MikeCfromLI (Jan 6, 2012)

a sonicare charge brought an older kinetic from dead to 6 minutes on the power reserve indicator in about 10 hours.... similar positioning as mentioned here


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## Drop of a Hat (Dec 16, 2011)

This may sound really stupid but I have to ask after stumbling on this thread.....

Did the watches not come with chargers in the first place?

Sent Via Tapatalk


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## Olegis (Oct 17, 2010)

No.
It's kinda like the automatic watches that don't come with winders


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## junlon (Dec 30, 2007)

Michael G. Curry said:


> a sonicare charge brought an older kinetic from dead to 6 minutes on the power reserve indicator in about 10 hours.... similar positioning as mentioned here


Can you post a picture of how you position your kinetic on the Sonicare charger?


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## GTR83 (Dec 26, 2010)

Just bought one of the official Seiko kinetic chargers last night. It brought my SKA383 from dead to first marker on the "power reserve indicator" (on the 5 index) overnight. I chose 3.5 hours charging mode. I wore the watch for 9-10 hours today so some additional charge/discharge might have taken place, and will try further 3.5 hours of charging tonight. The SKA383 Caesar has the 5M62 movement. The Seiko technician I talked to told me his prognosis prior to my buying the charger that he thinks the watch is in need of a new capacitor, and advises me to try charging for several days straight; if it cannot bring the watch to maximum power reserve, then a brand new capacitor (or watch ;-)) it is.

With this charger in hand, I think I can safely look for a used BFK


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## MikeCfromLI (Jan 6, 2012)

I will let you know how many days it takes to get to full....



junlon said:


> Can you post a picture of how you position your kinetic on the Sonicare charger?


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## junlon (Dec 30, 2007)

Michael G. Curry said:


> View attachment 655827
> 
> 
> I will let you know how many days it takes to get to full....


My Sonicare devices are very different from yours. Any idea how to make them work for Seiko kinetics? I put the watch in the open slot of the Sonicare (on the RHS), but could not make it work...


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## MikeCfromLI (Jan 6, 2012)

My sonic care watch has a hole and a stub


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## junlon (Dec 30, 2007)

Michael G. Curry said:


> View attachment 655827
> 
> 
> I will let you know how many days it takes to get to full....


Any good news? Is your watch fully charged after 3 days?


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## MikeCfromLI (Jan 6, 2012)

Seems to get to the 10 minute position, but i believe the charge indicator is exponential



junlon said:


> Any good news? Is your watch fully charged after 3 days?


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## GTR83 (Dec 26, 2010)

Reporting in after observing the second nightly charge. My presumed dead Caesar is now on the 20-second mark (four months of power reserve). I will try letting it discharge without wearing to see whether the problem is indeed with my watch's capacitor. I use the Seiko Energy Supply charger - it's not that expensive ;-)

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk


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## Tanglewood (Aug 11, 2011)

Hello. 

Will induction chargers magnetize mechanical watches?

Or demagnetize?

Or both/either?

TIA


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## MikeCfromLI (Jan 6, 2012)

I thought i had a problem it seemed to stall at the 10 minute mark (out of thirty) on the indicator, then i remembered scale is exponential, it took two weeks but I did get to a full charge...

















Michael G. Curry said:


> Seems to get to the 10 minute position, but i believe the charge indicator is exponential


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## skj048p (Apr 5, 2012)

Setup for my Kinetic Sports 200 and a Braun Tootbrush Charger,,cheap and easy charging!

https://www.watchuseek.com/f365/nee...0b30-howto-673308.html?highlight=#post4908333


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## junlon (Dec 30, 2007)

Finally figured out how to use my Sonicare charger (with an open slot in the middle) to charge kinetic. Here is what I did:

(a) The Sonicare w/ the open slot - front viewi and bottom view. Please note there are two screws on the bottom cover.














(b) After removing the two screws on the bottom cover, you can see Sonicare charging coil (round shape) in the middle.








(c) I placed my kinetic watch (represented by the quarter coin) on the top of the charging coil. The kinetic watch is slightly off the center of Sonicare coil (to the right a bit) - as the kinetic coils and capacity are around 7 o'clock position. The kinetic was fully charged after a few hours - efficiency is not bad.
(Not sure how critical it is to place the kinetic off the center since Sonicare charging coil is quite big. I suspect it will work fine even with the kinetic watch at the center of Sonicare coil. I will try it a few weeks later...)










junlon said:


> My Sonicare devices are very different from yours. Any idea how to make them work for Seiko kinetics? I put the watch in the open slot of the Sonicare (on the RHS), but could not make it work...
> 
> View attachment 656102


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

After reading this thread throughly I realized that the only induction charger I have at home is the base of this set of LED table candlelights Imageo by Philips:









Just for the sake of it I placed my 20 years old Seiko 5M22 (capacitor replaced with an original li-ion battery) in one of the sockets and to my surprise after three hours the charge indicator has gone up from the twenty minutes to the thirty minutes mark. The watch was placed in the cavity upright (6 hours down). I can't say the watch was actually warm but it was certainly above room temp.

I will try this charger also on my Sportura Kinetic chrono but this one has no charge indicator so things become more difficult.


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## junlon (Dec 30, 2007)

Great to know your LED charger works. How did you place your watch in the charger? With the watch sitting on top of charger (the dail facing up) or standing up inside the charger (the dial poiting to the side)?

BTW, I really like your LED table candlelights...Hope I find some of them here in Michigan.



Kilovolt said:


> After reading this thread throughly I realized that the only induction charger I have at home is the base of this set of LED table candlelights Imageo by Philips:
> 
> View attachment 710999
> 
> ...


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

This is what I did, it was the first attempt but already successful:









As to the candlelights they are easily available e.g. on Amazon


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## Citizen V (Jun 29, 2011)

I'll be giving this a try when my BFK comes . Will definitely be handy if I intend to keep rotating through my watches, and not giving the BFK extra wrist time to charge it up.


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## junlon (Dec 30, 2007)

It makes more sense for the watch to stand up inside the LED charger. I think the watch's charging capacitor is lcoated from 7 o'clock to 11 o'clock. At the position, the watch's charging capacitor (sitting almost vertical) is very parallel to the LED electromegnetic fluxes (going vertical) and you got good charging efficiency.

Many thanks for the link of LED lights. I think the LED light charger will work much better than my tooth brush charger...



Kilovolt said:


> This is what I did, it was the first attempt but already successful:
> 
> View attachment 711401
> 
> ...


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## Citizen V (Jun 29, 2011)

Any guesses as to how the coil is oriented in this Braun charger?








Currently giving my HP Touchpad Touchstone a try. From this: Hewball.com.au » Touchpad Touchstone Dismantled
seems like I can just lie it down flat.


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## junlon (Dec 30, 2007)

I think this Braun charger is similar to *Kilovolt*'s LED table light charger. You probably can follow *Kilovolt*'s approach by sitting your kinetic inside Braun charger. You may have to orient your kinetic charger to vertical - parallel to the EM fluxes.
Think of it this way. EM fluxes coming out of the LED table light charger/Braun charger are like water coming out of a fountain. The center of the LED table light charger/Braun charger is like the center of the fountain. You want to place your kinetic charger coil to collect as much EM fluxes as you want to place a water bottle to collect the water coming out of a fountain.



Citizen V said:


> Any guesses as to how the coil is oriented in this Braun charger?
> View attachment 712516
> 
> 
> ...


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## onrypt (Feb 18, 2007)

onrypt said:


> Do you gentlemen know if this will work with a 5J22 Kinetic Auto-Relay?
> I have two of the SMA-0** series and would like to get the Dakota Charger to top them off.
> Additionally does anyone know where the coil sits on this model?
> Thanks so much!
> C.


Just wanted to update and say that the Dakota charger does in fact work well with the 5J22 movement in my SMA series and the 7L22 in my Arctura Chrono.
Can't beat this little charger for the price&#8230;.


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## Citizen V (Jun 29, 2011)

junlon said:


> I think this Braun charger is similar to *Kilovolt*'s LED table light charger. You probably can follow *Kilovolt*'s approach by sitting your kinetic inside Braun charger. You may have to orient your kinetic charger to vertical - parallel to the EM fluxes.
> Think of it this way. EM fluxes coming out of the LED table light charger/Braun charger are like water coming out of a fountain. The center of the LED table light charger/Braun charger is like the center of the fountain. You want to place your kinetic charger coil to collect as much EM fluxes as you want to place a water bottle to collect the water coming out of a fountain.


Seems like it is working. The case is certainly a little warmer, unlike when I tried my Touchstone charger. I'll update tomorrow and see if it goes up to the 20 second mark (currently at 10).
EDIT: Oops, I should have read the entire thread. From the looks of it, it'll take much longer than 1 day to get up to the 20 mark. I guess I'll report back much later.


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## junlon (Dec 30, 2007)

Dakota REQ charger was a good solution when its price was $19.95. But Dakota has increased the price to $49.94, probably due to the good reviews from Seiko kinetic watch fans. It is not as a good solution as the LED table light charger or tooth brush charger (but still better than the expensive $200 Seiko kinetic charger).
http://www.dakotawatch.com/index.php/req-charging-stand.htm



onrypt said:


> Just wanted to update and say that the Dakota charger does in fact work well with the 5J22 movement in my SMA series and the 7L22 in my Arctura Chrono.
> Can't beat this little charger for the price&#8230;.


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## Citizen V (Jun 29, 2011)

Citizen V said:


> EDIT: Oops, I should have read the entire thread. From the looks of it, it'll take much longer than 1 day to get up to the 20 mark. I guess I'll report back much later.


So looks like it's been 3 days, and it's up to the 20 second mark ! Not too bad. I hope it has enough time to charge to full before I leave on my vacation.

pictures are always good:


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## Ed P. (Aug 5, 2009)

Kilovolt said:


> After reading this thread throughly I realized that the only induction charger I have at home is the base of this set of LED table candlelights Imageo by Philips:
> 
> View attachment 710999
> 
> ...


I bought one of these and it works quite well. I put my two BFK's and Caesar in the three holes, just as kilovolt suggests(ie., vertical,with 6 o'clock down), and they went from complete discharge to full charge in a week. This isn't fast, but it sure beats shaking to effectively charge your Kinetics! One small PITA is that the charger has a 10 hour timer that must be repeatedly reset, to keep it going. I found that you can reset the 10 hours anytime you want, though, even if it is already on.


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

Ed P. said:


> I bought one of these and it works quite well. I put my two BFK's and Caesar in the three holes, just as kilovolt suggests(ie., vertical,with 6 o'clock down), and they went from complete discharge to full charge in a week. This isn't fast, but it sure beats shaking to effectively charge your Kinetics! One small PITA is that the charger has a 10 hour timer that must be repeatedly reset, to keep it going. I found that you can reset the 10 hours anytime you want, though, even if it is already on.


.... and I am sure that your wife likes the candlelights like mine does ;-)


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## Ravenslair (Sep 3, 2011)

Kilovolt said:


> After reading this thread throughly I realized that the only induction charger I have at home is the base of this set of LED table candlelights Imageo by Philips:
> 
> View attachment 710999
> 
> ...


Just for the sake of beating a dead horse... I finally ordered one of these. Also scored a very well cared for SKA367 (from a fellow WUS member) that had the double tick going when I got it. Put it in the charger a few days ago and it is already up to the 10 second mark. Works like a champ and super easy. Just drop it in with the six o'clock position at the bottom. Press the timer reset in the morning and before bed and it will be charged in a week or so.

For less than $40, your wife gets nice candles and you get a charger for your kinetic. Of course, you never tell her the last part. It was always for her ;-)


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## Chazman1946 (Jul 6, 2012)

I have a recharger for Wii game controllers, I bought it from 1sale-a-day for about $30. it has a spot for 4 controlers. I'm putting my new Kinetic Seiko on it face down, and will report if it it gets past the 5 minute mark tomorrow. If it doesn't I will try a couple of other ways of placing it, if that doesn't work the watch goes back, I'm not going to be walking around looking like , trying to recharge it every few days!


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## Chazman1946 (Jul 6, 2012)

Wii recharger doesn't work, and I took the Seiko Kinetic back.


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## tanwill (Jun 15, 2010)

Wonder if these new generation induction handphone charger will work on the kinetic or not ??


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## GTR83 (Dec 26, 2010)

Are those Qi-compliant wireless chargers? Not sure if they will work with kinetic watches... 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

GTR83 said:


> Are those Qi-compliant wireless chargers? Not sure if they will work with kinetic watches...


Difficult to tell, it's only a matter of trying.


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## spottydog (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi all

Came across this thread and have read it all with great interest having been a Seiko Kinetic owner for the past 12 years.

My watch is the SMA003 with the 5J22 movement, this watch is 12 years old and has been fantastic. I have never needed to replace the capacitor and the watch has never depleted is power source as it has always been worn on a regular basis.

However I now have many other watches and would like to put the Seiko into semi retirement but do not want to deplete the internal power source. I know Seiko quoted 4 years power reserve when the watch sleeps after 72 hours but have no idea how long it will now last after 12 years all I can be sure of it is more than one week.

So having come across this thread I thought I can keep this watch charged with my Braun Toothbrush charger but this watch does not have any display of power reserve so I have no idea if the toothbrush thing works or not.

However as an observation if the watch is put into sleep mode ie pull crown out and push back in within 1 second the hands stop moving. If while in this state the watch is placed on the toothbrush charger the watch wakes up sets the time and the hands resume normal operation. I am hoping this means it is charging !

I would be interested in any views on my assumption or other owners experiences.

I know Seiko used to make an induction charger but even if I could find one the cost is beyond what I could justify just to keep a 12 year old watch charged although this watch is of huge sentimental to me.

Hope you guys have some wisdom for me


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## Brendan12 (Mar 18, 2012)

Is there any risk of fire/explosion or the watch battery leaking/exploding by using charger devices on a Kinetic?


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## spottydog (Feb 4, 2011)

Good question Brendan12 but my reading so far would indicate probably not based on:

Watch has built in overcharge protection

The official Seiko induction charger manual makes no mention of any danger from repeat charge cycles ie overcharging.

But Of course I don't actually know, what I would assume is the efficiency of the energy transfer from toothbrush charger to watch is low and charge times would be lengthy as suggested by earlier posts.


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

With a toothbrush or a LED table lights charger it takes days to get a Kinetic's charge from one mark to the next and the cell has a typical capacity of 5 mAh. It is totally unlikely not to say impossible to cause an explosion with this kind of energy.


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## Mike.45 (Jul 3, 2012)

I used my Braun charger to charge my SKA402 from 20min to full charge in 4 hours. The charge is still holding 24 hours later.


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## spottydog (Feb 4, 2011)

Was the watch fussy about the position relative to the charger. My SMA003 comes out of sleep and is hopefully charging in almost any location relative to the Braun charger.


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## Mike.45 (Jul 3, 2012)

spottydog said:


> Was the watch fussy about the position relative to the charger. My SMA003 comes out of sleep and is hopefully charging in almost any location relative to the Braun charger.


The watch has a clear back so I located the coil at 7 so I stood the watch up in the charger in that position. Really with the charger that I have that is the only real way to charge the watch.


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## hiyamike (Jul 19, 2013)

Mike.45 said:


> The watch has a clear back so I located the coil at 7 so I stood the watch up in the charger in that position. Really with the charger that I have that is the only real way to charge the watch.




















Ebay has started selling "Wireless Charging Charger Module Power Supply Coils" I bought a few, $10 each, and experimented on two of my kinetics the one it worked with is a 7M22-7A00. The transmitter (yellow) part works at 5v to 12v. I tried 5v and placed the watch (in which the capacitor was fully discharged) face down on the coil as the diameter is larger than the watch (40mm) and the watch started to get too hot (and the watch wasn't working either) so I held the coil vertically above one of the coils in the watch (at 1 o'clock, dial up) and the watch started working sweeping 2 seconds which it does until charged sufficiently. I left the watch in that position for a day and a half and it was still sweeping 2 seconds so I upped the voltage to 9v and in under 5 hours the second hand was sweeping normally at 1 second, showing that the capacitor was accepting a good charge. Once the watch has reached the 1 second stage it can be worn and charged up normally. The output from the coil at 5v to 12v input is always 5v but the current seems to higher at 9v input. It is funny it didn't work with my other watch a 7M22-6A00 maybe it is on another frequency as the watches seem identical and it charges when shaken. You may be able to experiment with other size-shape coils for other model watches but remember to experiment charging on a large porcelain plate for safety reasons and check temperature of watch for first few minutes, it is normal for inductive charging to create heat but not the sort of heat experienced when I placed the watch dial down on the coil! The photo shows watch being charged and the watch next to it that wouldn't accept charge.
Update:-
It also wakes up my auto relay (5J22-0B39) at 5 o'clock but I don't know where coils are positioned as it has a solid back, perhaps someone could help me there.

Specification:
Input voltage : DC-5-12V
Input current :100-500mA
Output voltage : DC 5V
Output current :500-600MA
2.5-4W output power
Center resonant frequency : 125KHz
Emission coil: copper wire diameter φ 0.6 mm, coil diameter 40 mm, around 15-20 turns, 33uH. Receiving coil is same.
Emission coil and receive coil distance for 1 ~ 20 mm, increase receiving coil turns to increase transmission distance.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

Whilst I'm intrigued by the inventiveness, I'd have to say, for people who are enthusiasts and already spend a reasonable amount on watches, why not just buy the official one (YT02A). I've had mine for some years, and am glad I bought it.

Input is 12v DC, and there's a selector switch on the side which is just really the time it runs for when you press the red start button - 30 minutes, which will provide a decent degree of charge, if you're then going to wear the watch, or 3.5 hours which will fully charge it.


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

The offical Seiko kinetic charger is pretty expensive and think not available anymore ?


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

xzqt said:


> The offical Seiko kinetic charger is pretty expensive and think not available anymore ?


They're regularly sold, new, on ebay. As for price, they're probably less than a decent Kinetic, and to be in the position of needing one, you probably have a small collection of watches.

I think I just struggle to see the sense, really, lots, here, appear to spend plenty on their watches, well why risk them by trying to charge them with Heath Robinson type creations. The official charger has several diferent positions for different Kinetic movements, so presumably there's plenty of scope for getting it wrong with your own creation. I suppose it's a leap of faith that if you do get it wrong, you won't damage your watch.


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## hiyamike (Jul 19, 2013)

There is a YT02A charger on Ebay now for £140 including P+P while Heath Robinson setup is $10, I know which I would prefer.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

hiyamike said:


> There is a YT02A charger on Ebay now for £140 including P+P while Heath Robinson setup is $10, I know which I would prefer.


Don't get me wrong - I get the disparity in price, and the quest to understand. But most people, here, I would say, care about their watches - and the Heath Robinson approach has potential to at least get things wrong (see the description I made about calibre alignment on top of the official device) - whether that would have any negative consequences, who's to say, over time...

Thing is, people, here, don't tend to buy some crappy $10 watch, they tend to be spending upwards of £140, or a lot more, on their watches, and collect a reasonable amount of them - so why scrimp on a charging solution? I think if I was in the position of not having one, I'd not bother experimenting - I'd be concerned with the potential for damage over time. When I bought mine, I can't remember how much I paid, I don't think it was £140, though - but it was new, and from a jewellers supply company in the UK.

All the same, it's a price many wouldn't think anything of, spending on a watch, so for a decent charger, surely there's legs in that for some?


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

So a kinetic watch may cost $140, while the charger will cost another $140 .......
Thats dont quite make scense.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

xzqt said:


> So a kinetic watch may cost $140, while the charger will cost another $140 .......
> Thats dont quite make scense.


Well collectors may well have several kinetics (I know I do - at least 4). And some people pay more than $140 for their watch anyways.

If you just have one watch, then you'll probably wear it quite a lot, and won't need a charger, simples.


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## Howa (Mar 7, 2013)

I own four BFK's, all of which were fully charged when I bought them, except for the yellow one, when it arrived it was doing the 2 second jump, I've shaken it until my arm about fell off, I've worn it while mowing, weedeating, etc, I've worn it a week straight without taking it off, I never did get it to go past 5 seconds on the charge indicator.......well after reading this thread I suprised my wife with some Imageo candles, lol. I just put 3 of the BFK's in the candle charger this morning, just went to check on them and my yellow BFK is up to 10 seconds on the indicator!!!!!!!! it's actually working!! I had all but decided I must have bought an old stock watch with an already diminished capacity battery but this candle charger already has me more charged than ever since I owned the watch.......and my wife loves those damn candles, LOL.


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

There's not very many things related to the watches world that actually help bringing peace to the family, quite the contrary usually. But the LED candles are definitely one. :-!

Of course you don't want to tell your wife the real reason for buying them for her .... :-d


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

tanwill said:


> Wonder if these new generation induction handphone charger will work on the kinetic or not ??


Has anybody tried this ??


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

Hi Guys !

I got myself a used Braun toothbrush charger after reading from others experience.
Had one of my Kinetic watch on the Braun in various position for the last 4 days .........until i find the right position. 
Ahh ! Got it finally ! Its now charged upto to 20 minutes !
Thanks goodness ! ... thought all was loss in the beginning.

Now i dont have to shake till i drop.
Finally i dont have to complaint about kinetic watch.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

xzqt said:


> Hi Guys !
> 
> I got myself a used Braun toothbrush charger after reading from others experience.
> Had one of my Kinetic watch on the Braun in various position for the last 4 days .........until i find the right position.
> ...


Is that an SKA375?

If so, I've got one of the variants - SKA373, and I was divided over whether to get the blue face one (SKA275) or the beige faced one I've got.


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

Yes, its a SKA375.
I love the Ventura shape case.... although my wife hates it !


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

xzqt said:


> Yes, its a SKA375.
> I love the Ventura shape case.... although my wife hates it !
> 
> View attachment 1176249


If you ever decide you want to sell - let me know!

Here's mine:-


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## Howa (Mar 7, 2013)

Howa said:


> I own four BFK's, all of which were fully charged when I bought them, except for the yellow one, when it arrived it was doing the 2 second jump, I've shaken it until my arm about fell off, I've worn it while mowing, weedeating, etc, I've worn it a week straight without taking it off, I never did get it to go past 5 seconds on the charge indicator.......well after reading this thread I suprised my wife with some Imageo candles, lol. I just put 3 of the BFK's in the candle charger this morning, just went to check on them and my yellow BFK is up to 10 seconds on the indicator!!!!!!!! it's actually working!! I had all but decided I must have bought an old stock watch with an already diminished capacity battery but this candle charger already has me more charged than ever since I owned the watch.......and my wife loves those damn candles, LOL.


It's now been 5 days since I started charging, all 3 of the BFK's are now fully charged including the yellow one that I had assumed needed a replacement battery. The other 2 I took off earlier in the week after they reached full charge, and the yellow one got there today. I can't believe this crazy candle idea actually worked, amazing what one can learn on the internet! Thanks guys for the heads up on the charger, the candles are pretty nifty in the bedroom too!


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

Howa said:


> It's now been 5 days since I started charging, all 3 of the BFK's are now fully charged including the yellow one that I had assumed needed a replacement battery. The other 2 I took off earlier in the week after they reached full charge, and the yellow one got there today. I can't believe this crazy candle idea actually worked, amazing what one can learn on the internet! Thanks guys for the heads up on the charger, the candles are pretty nifty in the bedroom too!


Hey...where can I find these candles/charger online?


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

fatehbajwa said:


> Hey...where can I find these candles/charger online?


The name is 'Philips Imageo' and a Google search will give you a lot of results including Amazon in some countries.


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

What I could find online here in India is.....









The base seems similar...... What do you think?


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

This is a type I do not know so you may wish to try it out for us. 

Alternatively: Philips 818655 Imageo CandleLight | eBay


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

Thanks.


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

xzqt said:


> Has anybody tried this ??


Yeah....this looks better. Anybody ?


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## asingh1977 (Oct 13, 2012)

How will the Phillips Candle holders charge the Kinetics..?


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## Howa (Mar 7, 2013)

asingh1977 said:


> How will the Phillips Candle holders charge the Kinetics..?


I've had a couple pm's asking me for a pic of how I put them in there, first let me say I did no experimenting with different positions, so I cannot speak as to what is the "best" way to place the watch in the candle charger. I just sat them in there, checked them about every 24 hours to see if the charge level was increasing and in a few days they were all charged to the 30 second mark. The charger cuts off automatically about every 12 hours, so each morning and night I'd push the power button on the charger to reset the internal timer so it would continue to charge. Here is a pic of how mine were placed in the candle charger........


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks, thats another good news and good alternative.
I may want to try this Philips Imageo ; as the Braun toothbrush charger can be troublesome since some kinetic watch dont seems to response well.


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## mcfutz (Aug 20, 2013)

Have followed this thread w/ interest, as I have a 'Motion Quartz' (little known Miyota kinetic movement) whose OEM capacitor seems weak. Am tired of waggling it till numb without knowing how much charge it'll take. Hence my interest.
It's been fully discharged for weeks. About 2 hours ago, I lodged it (stem out), with coil as close to the post as possible, in my ancient Braun toothbrush charger. Lo, a hour later, the second hand ticks 1x/second! The bloody scheme works, it seems.
I plan to let it charge so for another couple of hours, then check it in the AM. If it's held a charge, will let it run until... Then, I'll set it to charge all day and recheck.
will report results in a couple of days, in case there are any other Miyota kinetic owners out there. Hope this works well, as I like the watch. 
Too bad Braun doesn't make watches. This toothbrush has served faithfully for nearly 2 decades.


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## mcfutz (Aug 20, 2013)

Yes, that is the pinch with these hybrid devices...they sort of force you to be faithful to them till the end. Wait a bit and see if my little toothbrush experiment proves useful. If it works for me, it'll work for you, I bet.
I wish I knew more electronics. There's obviously a niche industry here for someone to manufacture inexpensive induction chargers.


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## mcfutz (Aug 20, 2013)

A brief update re: Braun TP charger w/ Miyota kinetic. I went ahead and let it charge overnight--about 12 hours--then used it as usual all day. No hitch, no glitch, ticked out virtually perfect time. I'll let it charge again overnight and then just let it lie tomorrow, to see how long before it stops. I don't know what to expect from an original capacitor. However, earlier I tried achieving full charge with a makeshift winder, for about 16 hours. Thereafter, it ran no more than about 5.5 hours before quitting. Interesting to see if Mr. Braun can do better.
At any rate: it is clear that a very simple toothbrush charger will charge a kinetic...in my case, with no fuss. Watch did not evidence any of the "heat" some others have mentioned.
My basic expectation, however, is that I'll need to replace the power cell, if I don't want to "Braun" the watch every night. AND: does anyone know if the replacement cell (seems to be Citizen 295-60) is still a capacitor, or li-ion? Thanks.


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

Actual capacitors were discontinued about 15 years ago after their long term performance has been found disappointing. Li-ion cells with different chemistry have been used since then. It is easy to tell one from the other because capacitors provided only a few days of charge even when new.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

Kilovolt said:


> Actual capacitors were discontinued about 15 years ago after their long term performance has been found disappointing. Li-ion cells with different chemistry have been used since then. It is easy to tell one from the other because capacitors provided only a few days of charge even when new.


I've got 3 5M42 Seiko Kinetics that originally had capacitors in, and on full charge, lasted more than days. Easily weeks, but I thought a small number of months, I should probably check in one of the manuals. Sure, the Li-ion replacement cells are meant to increase the longevity of a full charge (I think the when replaced / upgraded with the Li-ion cells it's a small number of months, with full charge), but still - 5M42 (which seem to be the most popular of the early Kinetics) did better than a few days on a full charge of the capacitor.


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

My 5M22 was rated 3 days (instruction manual) and actually when new worked not more than 4.5 days.

BTW: I just found the manual


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## mcfutz (Aug 20, 2013)

Thanks for input, folks. I'll complete report on my Braun/Miyota experiment tomorrow. No doubt, a new power cell is called for. I'm leery about this, as I can get no info on how really 'new' the cell will be. They aren't cheap, and the job isn't all that easy--esp. if no data can be found anywhere on the Miyota BP10 movement--which Citizen apparently will no longer recognize as being their child. No idea why--tho clearly only briefly produced, it seems to have worked better and longer than any Seiko kinetic I know.
What I seem to be rediscovering: (a) a good battery quartz movement is far far simpler and more reliable in ordinary use than any hybrid watch. (b) solar (Eco Drive) works at least as well and a good deal longer on OEM cell than all kinetics I've tried. My quite old "Solar Tech" (1st gen ecodrive) has required only light & minor adjustments every couple of months. Solar may be the optimal scheme to date (or so it seems to me). Probably also why Citizen gave up early on kinetics.


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## mcfutz (Aug 20, 2013)

...and I can now report that extensive application of a toothbrush charger
a) will produce some level of charge to an old kinetic capacitor (no experience here on li-ion cells), but
b) won't give me more than 5 hours or so of usable charge (without constant movement to back it up).
I haven't decided to install a new cell yet but probably will just to say "I finished this venture." 
Ultimately, I'm fairly soured on kinetics. The idea really intrigued me for quite some time. The experience hasn't been so much fun.
I sheepishly also confess, I too gave in to the current fascination with old school mechanicals (Japanse automatics, in my case). The Seiko 5 does pretty well--only gains maybe half a minute in constant use over a couple of days. BUT--plain old quartz (or a good eco drive) is more accurate with zero fuss. 
Your experience may, of course, vary.
Everybody likes his toys, and I've not been immune to this either. But pragmatism eventually asserts its little voice, and one ignores it at a cost.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

mcfutz said:


> ...and I can now report that extensive application of a toothbrush charger
> a) will produce some level of charge to an old kinetic capacitor (no experience here on li-ion cells), but
> b) won't give me more than 5 hours or so of usable charge (without constant movement to back it up).
> I haven't decided to install a new cell yet but probably will just to say "I finished this venture."
> ...


I'll admit, Kinetics can be an acquired taste - and something of a solution looking for a problem. Also, if you've got plenty of watches, and none of your Kinetics are auto-relay, perhaps they can be a faff to look after. And truth be told, mine have lay dormant for a while, but I've recently revived them.

I have 3 5M42s, 1 5M62 (and a ladies Kinetic that really belongs to my wife that was - but that needs a capacitor replacing, which I've bought, but as of yet not got 'round to replacing). One of my 5M42s has a jammed generating mechanism (I think I replaced the capacitor, before the generator bit ground to a halt), I'm up to replacing capacitors, but having a tendency towards the yips in my middle age, means I'm not likely to attempt any further kind of maintenance on it - although I intend getting it fixed.

I've just replaced the capacitor in one of my 5M42s, so now keep 3 Kinetics on the boil, as I have the official Seiko induction charger - so just put them on, in sequence, for 30 minutes a week, and wear whichever one I please. That's enough to keep the charge showing as full, on an ongoing basis.

I also have a Seiko solar divers, a solar G-Shock, Casio tough solar, a Casio Edifice, a Seiko 5, and several quartz Rotarys.

I'll certainly accept, solar watches are so much easier to look after and keep charged, but now that I'm better organised with my Kinetics, it's not such a problem - it's really no issue to remember to use the charger, regularly, so they're now all kept topped up, and I can wear any of them whenever I please.


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## mcfutz (Aug 20, 2013)

Wongsky: I admire your collection, even more your loyalty. Without doubt, a proper dedicated charger would make a difference. I cannot afford such. A shame: I quite like my Motion Quartz, but refuse to let it wag me.
Your judgment, solution looking for a problem, hits the mark. I wish you happiness and luck.
PS. I know nothing about a Rotary watch, though have seen the name. I don't think they're available locally (Colorado).


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## Topher1556 (Aug 22, 2007)

mcfutz said:


> Wongsky: I admire your collection, even more your loyalty. Without doubt, a proper dedicated charger would make a difference. I cannot afford such. A shame: I quite like my Motion Quartz, but refuse to let it wag me.
> Your judgment, solution looking for a problem, hits the mark. I wish you happiness and luck.
> PS. I know nothing about a Rotary watch, though have seen the name. I don't think they're available locally (Colorado).


I can understand how you feel. I'm having no luck with my toothbrush charger and my Kinetic. So, I've ordered a set of the Phillips LED lights as the induction coil seems much more generous than my old Braun charger. For $40, it's hard to go wrong since as others have said...my wife will think they're just for her


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## mcfutz (Aug 20, 2013)

I sympathize. Will be interested to know your experience w/ tea light charger...have thought about that too, as the TB charger makes for an awkward fit...tho it has worked w/ my MQ...which is currently sitting on the thing for a ca. 36 hour charge, just to see what effect that has. I've been looking around for a replacement cell, but cannot find out which is the right one. It is deeply annoying when neither Citizen nor Miyota will respond to such a simple inquiry.
I believe a good project for interested parties would be to pool their knowledge, work as a team, and figure out how to manufacture a suitable charger out of stock bits. Should be doable.


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## Topher1556 (Aug 22, 2007)

mcfutz said:


> I sympathize. Will be interested to know your experience w/ tea light charger...have thought about that too, as the TB charger makes for an awkward fit...tho it has worked w/ my MQ...which is currently sitting on the thing for a ca. 36 hour charge, just to see what effect that has. I've been looking around for a replacement cell, but cannot find out which is the right one. It is deeply annoying when neither Citizen nor Miyota will respond to such a simple inquiry.
> I believe a good project for interested parties would be to pool their knowledge, work as a team, and figure out how to manufacture a suitable charger out of stock bits. Should be doable.


See this post from earlier in the thread:

Induction chargers that work with Seiko Kinetic - Page 10


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## mcfutz (Aug 20, 2013)

Umm...I did look for alternative devices, and found/ordered a cell-phone sized flat pad induction phone charger pretty cheaply. Figured, if it works, great. If not, I'll keep it till I get a smart phone some day. Looks big enough to handle more than one watch at once...or not any at all. Will see in a week or so. The pricier "Qi" units (dedicated for certain phones) look more suitable...but only if you already have one of those phones. Will report...


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## Topher1556 (Aug 22, 2007)

I did some testing and found the toothbrush charger to charge _far_ slower than the Philips LED setup also shown here. I ended up ordering a set of the Philips lights and it's charging my Kinetic nicely. So far, after 3 cycles it went from the 2-second tick to the 20min marker. No heat generated that I can feel, but my charger is in my basement, which is pretty cool...and the watch is a larger one so has a lot of steel to heat before i'd notice.

Regardless, I bet my toothbrush charger works as far as charging, it's just far less practical. I can use this Philips charger easily, with no special balancing required, or worrying about how it's oriented...and it looks better. Plus, the lights themselves are pretty neat to have around instead of actual candles (I have two young boys...so they are far safer than real flames).


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

Mmmmm...... This Philips LED charger is indeed getting interesting.


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

xzqt said:


> Mmmmm...... This Philips LED charger is indeed getting interesting.


+1


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

Ok...I could not bear it any longer. Bought the Imageo Lights and there are three watches in the charger right now. Have noted down their charge status before putting them in the slots.
Will update status as and when I see anything happening/not happening.


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## mcfutz (Aug 20, 2013)

Update to my own induction charging experiments...
1) had no luck with an iphone induction charger...not sure why.
2) gave in and replaced power cell in my Motion quartz. It's now working perfectly...so long as it's in regular use. For the record: the new cell (from Ofrei) is identical to the OEM, but claims to be of li-ion type. I checked its charge before installing (having previously installed a new but completely dead cell in a 3m22 without knowing it was dead)--this MT621 read a hair over 1.3v.
3) It also occurred to me: many wireless stereo headphones use induction chargers...Sony and Sennheiser for instance. Has anyone tried one of these on a kinetic? Some models of both brands look like possibles...
4) Further question: has anyone attempted to re-charge a li-ion kinetic power cell OUT of the watch...by whatever means? It is after all a rechargeable battery, and some manner of direct charging device ought to work on it... Not practical for a cell already installed...but it would help in ensuring a full charge prior to installation...


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## dperreno (Jul 8, 2013)

Any update fatehbajwa? I've tried my BFK in every position on my Oral B charger, but nothing. I did read on another site that the Seiko charger supposedly works at around 1 Khz. The Qi spec is in the 100Khz range, which is why those chargers don't work on the Kinetics, or at least that's my take on it.


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## Mark Lim (Nov 3, 2013)

I made a watchwinder from a pc dc fan - rating 12V 0.25A. But I am running on 5V, by using a USB cable instead to provide the power source. 

Strip the usb wire off any old mouse or usb cable. U will find 4 wires, choose the red and black wires, strip the plastic cover of the red and black wires, then connect them to the red and black wires of the pc dc fan. (Search youtube if you require video to show u how to take out usb cables but its very easy.)

Works very well and cheap too.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

I was up in my loft a few days back, and found the box from when I bought my Seiko charger (the YT02A).

I know they are sold for well over £100 (UK pounds) + delivery charges on ebay, now. But the box for mine had the invoice and receipt. I bought it from A G Thomas in the UK in 2006, and it was £30 (UK pounds) + VAT + delivery (total was something like £38.92 UK pounds).

No wonder I bought it at that price, they now list it at £95.00 (UK pounds, and I suspect that's before VAT and delivery).


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## cpl (Jan 21, 2014)

My wife's kinetic hasn't been worn in a long time. The movement is 3M22 and according to the manual a full change is between 3 and 7 days reserve (not much, it's an old kinetic so must be a capacitor). I thought it's pretty much a POS since she never going to wear it every day but I was interested in what others thought of kinetic. Imagine my surprise to discover that it can be charged by a toothbrush charger. And we just happen to have have Braun electric toothbrushes.

I opened the watch and the coil is at the 6 o'clock position so I positioned it upright with the 6 at the bottom. It seems to work, second hand has been ticking away merrily non-stop. When it started charging the power reserve indicator was 5 sec which the manual says is 3-24hrs power reserve. After about 1-2 min charging the indicator went to 30 sec which is supposed to mean fully charged with 3-7 days reserve. Can it charge so quickly? Maybe because the capacitor has quite a low capacity so it doesn't take much to charge it?

Here's the watch charging on the toothbrush charger.


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

Check it in actual use to see how long it runs. I'm pretty sure that 1-2 minutes of charging cannot give a 3-7 days charge.


Sent from my iPad


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## cpl (Jan 21, 2014)

Howa said:


> I've had a couple pm's asking me for a pic of how I put them in there, first let me say I did no experimenting with different positions, so I cannot speak as to what is the "best" way to place the watch in the candle charger. I just sat them in there, checked them about every 24 hours to see if the charge level was increasing and in a few days they were all charged to the 30 second mark. The charger cuts off automatically about every 12 hours, so each morning and night I'd push the power button on the charger to reset the internal timer so it would continue to charge. Here is a pic of how mine were placed in the candle charger........


Can imagine what your wife said when she saw this..."What the....!"


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## cpl (Jan 21, 2014)

fatehbajwa said:


> Check it in actual use to see how long it runs. I'm pretty sure that 1-2 minutes of charging cannot give a 3-7 days charge.


In total I left it on for about 20min and it's been running for 7 hrs now (better than I expected). Will see tomorrow morning if it's still running and then let it charge for a full day and see how long that lasts.

Wonder what Seiko thinks of this thread? Toothbrushes, LED lights...the lengths we've had to go to get these watches going must surely mean a failure on their part...nice idea in theory, but in practice...


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## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

cpl said:


> My wife's kinetic hasn't been worn in a long time. The movement is 3M22 and according to the manual a full change is between 3 and 7 days reserve (not much, it's an old kinetic so must be a capacitor). I thought it's pretty much a POS since she never going to wear it every day but I was interested in what others thought of kinetic. Imagine my surprise to discover that it can be charged by a toothbrush charger. And we just happen to have have Braun electric toothbrushes.
> 
> I opened the watch and the coil is at the 6 o'clock position so I positioned it upright with the 6 at the bottom. It seems to work, second hand has been ticking away merrily non-stop. When it started charging the power reserve indicator was 5 sec which the manual says is 3-24hrs power reserve. After about 1-2 min charging the indicator went to 30 sec which is supposed to mean fully charged with 3-7 days reserve. Can it charge so quickly? Maybe because the capacitor has quite a low capacity so it doesn't take much to charge it?
> 
> ...


Good side of the capacitor versions is that it doesn't deteriorate when not in use. Where Li-ion and Li-Ti-ion used today require minimum voltage, otherwise cells start to deteriorate. So it's a very high chance it will work with same capacity as it did on day 1.


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## Tomgbw (Jan 11, 2014)

Dont spend much money for a capacitor , just put your Kinetic in the frontpocket of your trousers when you walk. I do this when walking with my dog and it works fantastic.
spend the money for a new watch instead of a gear that has no real benefit.....


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## Willmax (Aug 30, 2012)

I've got a Philips Sonicare charger model HX5100, now I don't know where the coil is located on my BFK so that I can place it for a charge? I've took a few pictures so that you could help me identify which way to use it to charge my kinetics. Any help/comments appreciated. Cheers








-







-


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## Willmax (Aug 30, 2012)

Bumping this up to see if anyone knows how to position the BFK for a charge.


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## fatehbajwa (Jun 8, 2011)

Finally bit the bullet and bought this....................


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

fatehbajwa said:


> Finally bit the bullet and bought this....................
> 
> View attachment 1370224


I've had mine for a few years, now - the one in your picture, though, looks to have an updated decal with more movement types included in the watch orientations.


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## Nekbyter (Feb 4, 2014)

Fatehbajwa: Why did you get the Seiko charger, as I thought you were having success with the Philips LED charger??


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## Conky (Apr 26, 2008)

Hi guys, so I have a Seiko Kinetic 5M63 movement. I have it on a Braun toothbrush charger now, see pics. Does anyone know if I have the watch positioned correctly on the charger? Also, will this work and if so, would anyone know how long it will take to get a full charge?

Sorry about the butter dish pic.

Thank you.


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## Conky (Apr 26, 2008)

Okay, this does work. Though it does seem to take a long time for the 5m63 Movement. I changed the position of the watch a little as you an see in the new Pic below. So the watch has been in this position for 48 hours straight now. The power indicator has gone from the 2 Tick/_2 seconds_ interval almost dead position, to the 20 minute marker. So I'm guessing another 2 days and we will be at a Full 6 month 30 minute charge.

Also below is the Braun Oral-B Electric Toothbrush that I bought at Wal-Mart for $24.95. And a Pic of what the charger that came with it looks like.


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## Willmax (Aug 30, 2012)

Conky said:


> Okay, this does work. Though it does seem to take a long time for the 5m63 Movement. I changed the position of the watch a little as you an see in the new Pic below. So the watch has been in this position for 48 hours straight now. The power indicator has gone from the 2 Tick/_2 seconds_ interval almost dead position, to the 20 minute marker. So I'm guessing another 2 days and we will be at a Full 6 month 30 minute charge.
> 
> Also below is the Braun Oral-B Electric Toothbrush that I bought at Wal-Mart for $24.95. And a Pic of what the charger that came with it looks like.


Glad to hear it worked for you. I've got the same toothbrush/charger and a couple of Seiko BFK of which both were indicating at the 20sec mark when I tried to charge them, left them on the charger for about 3 days straight, same position as you've showed on your pic - both my watches did not move from the 20sec mark.... so I don't know whether it is suppose to take much longer to charge from 20sec to full charge at 30sec???
Please let us know if you happen to reach full charge on your watch and how long it takes? 
Cheers


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## Conky (Apr 26, 2008)

So the watch just went to 30 seconds Full charge today, (Tues April 22nd at about 11:30 EST). I first put the watch into the charger on April 18th, at about 11:30 EST. So that is a full 4 days to get from the power indicator being at the 2 Tick/_2 seconds_ interval almost dead position, to the 30 minute Full charge marker.

It took a full 2 days to get to the 20 minutes marker.

So I'm going to leave it in the charger for another full day, then just leave it out of the charger and not wear it for a day or 2 and see if it holds the 30 second marker. I'll report back.

As to it taking the same time to go from 2 second tick to 20 minutes, and then from 20 minutes to 30 minutes, I believe that the power indicator is exponential. See the Pic below to see what I mean.


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## Conky (Apr 26, 2008)

Willmax said:


> Glad to hear it worked for you. I've got the same toothbrush/charger and a couple of Seiko BFK of which both were indicating at the 20sec mark when I tried to charge them, left them on the charger for about 3 days straight, same position as you've showed on your pic - both my watches did not move from the 20sec mark.... so I don't know whether it is suppose to take much longer to charge from 20sec to full charge at 30sec???
> Please let us know if you happen to reach full charge on your watch and how long it takes?
> Cheers


So the only thing that I can think of as too why your watch hasn't got to Full charge from the 20 second mark after 3 days would be the movement. My watch has the 5m63 movement. Earlier BFKs used the 5m62 movement while the latest variants come with the newer 5m82 movement. So if your watch has the newer 5m82 movement, you need to find out where the charging coils are located, then position your watch on the charger to reflect that. You want to get the charging coils to line up vertically as close as you can to the post of the charger. I'm pretty sure that position of the charging coils and position on the charger, makes a big difference in charging time.

Another reason as to why your watch isn't going to a Full charge as quickly as mine, could be that your watch has the 5m82 movement, and that movement just might take longer to come to a Full charge overall compared to my 5m63 movement.


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## Conky (Apr 26, 2008)

So I checked the watch after about 45 hours off the charger with it just sitting in the drawer, and not wearing it at all. The Power Indicator has dropped to the 20min mark.

So it seems that to get to a true Full 30 minute charge from a dead start, will take longer than 5 full days in the charger. So It's back on the charger for a while. This experiment with the toothbrush charger is pretty much over now.

I feel that more than 5 full days in the charger is quite a long time, (although $24.95 is very inexpensive for a charger). So, I'm moving on to a new experiment. I will be ordering the Philips Imageo Candles and try the charger that comes with them to see if I can speed up the charging time. I have another 5m63 Kinetic that is almost dead, so as soon as I get the Candles, I will start the experiment.

For folks in The U.S. - Amazon.com:
Amazon.com: Philips 818655 Imageo CandleLight: Home Improvement

And for a little cheaper option in Canada:
Philips Lighting - 691086048 - Candle Lights 3-Light Table Lamp


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## Topher1556 (Aug 22, 2007)

Conky said:


> So I checked the watch after about 45 hours off the charger with it just sitting in the drawer, and not wearing it at all. The Power Indicator has dropped to the 20min mark.
> 
> So it seems that to get to a true Full 30 minute charge from a dead start, will take longer than 5 full days in the charger. So It's back on the charger for a while. This experiment with the toothbrush charger is pretty much over now.
> 
> ...


That Philips setup is the exact way I charge my 2 kinetics. I found very easy success with it, vs trying to find a position for the toothbrush charger. I think the charging field on the Philips is far far larger allowing you to simply set the heads in the reliefs and it will charge regardless of the crown orientation...as long as the face is perpendicular to the ground it seems to charge them.


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## Conky (Apr 26, 2008)

Topher1556 said:


> That Philips setup is the exact way I charge my 2 kinetics. I found very easy success with it, vs trying to find a position for the toothbrush charger. I think the charging field on the Philips is far far larger allowing you to simply set the heads in the reliefs and it will charge regardless of the crown orientation...as long as the face is perpendicular to the ground it seems to charge them.


Thanks for sharing your experience with us about the Philips Imageo Candles. I think you are correct about the charging field being larger than the toothbrush charger and the hassle of correct positioning. I think it's worth the $50.00 for faster charging without the problem of positioning to go with the Philips Imageo Candles route. Problem is I am having a hard time getting the Philips set-up now as the cheaper Canadian option at Philips Lighting - 691086048 - Candle Lights 3-Light Table Lamp is not currently in stock.


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## Conky (Apr 26, 2008)

UPDATE: 

LEGEND: 
Kinetic #1 = The 1st Kinetic that I tried in the toothbrush charger, (Full charge in 5 days).
Kinetic #2 = The 2nd Kinetic that I tried in the toothbrush charger, (Almost no charge in 5 days).
Both watches have the same movement, (5m63).

So I have been having a hard time getting the Philips Imageo Candles. I told you in my above post that I have another Kinetic, (Kinetic #2), that was almost dead. I know that you aren't supposed to let the battery completely die, so I put Kinetic #2 on the Toothbrush charger for a while. Well, after 5 days, almost no charge at all.

I couldn't understand why I wasn't getting a charge. I know that the positioning on the charger is not that important, (as when I was charging Kinetic #1), I was checking it everyday. I just think that there was no way that every-time I checked it and put it back on the charger, that I was getting the position perfect every time to get optimal charging.

So, I had to think, was is different with Kinetic #2 and Kinetic #1 that got a Full charge after 5 days on the toothbrush charger? Could it be that Kinetic #2's battery was cooked? I could not believe that. There had to be something else. The only difference I could tell was that with Kinetic #1, I had removed the case-back to take a Pic of the movement.

So yesterday morning, I opened the case-back of Kinetic #2, then put the case-back back on, and put the watch back on the charger. I checked it this morning, and well... it WORKED. Kinetic #2 is now at the 20 min charging marker. So that must have been the problem.

So if anyone is not getting a charge on the toothbrush charger, try taking off the case-back, and putting it back on. Then try charging again. I don't know why this worked, but I am almost positive that this was the reason Kinetic #2 was not charging.

Don't forget, if you remove the case-back, that may compromise the pressure seal and make the watch no longer safe for under water. just be advised of that before you remove the case-back, if that matters to you.


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## ibuyjp (Feb 4, 2014)

Greetings from Osaka!

Even here in Japan the Seiko Kinetic Charger has become nearly impossible to find and the occasional one that comes up tends to sell for ~$250. While I would love to have one of the originals I'm not willing to pay that much, so here I am looking for a substitute.

I've been experimenting with a small induction charger that came from a water pick type device. The trial and error was quite frustrating until I remembered I had one of these handy Kill A Watt devices. Mine is actually made by Sanwa Supply (common here in Japan) but the Kill A Watt has a good reputation and measures in 0.1W units with good accuracy.

When the induction charger is not charging you should get a reading of 0W, when it is charging you'll get a small wattage reading depending on how strong the charger is. My little charger here is drawing only 0.3W from the wall so I suspect it is going to take quite some time to charge the SBCW001 AGS Landmaster I'm testing it with. However at least I can see that it _is_ charging which is a big improvement over having no idea!

Hope this helps reduce the frustration for others as well.

Cheers,

Ian


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## JustWindItUp (Jun 18, 2014)

Hello and thanks for reading.....
I have been researching induction charging of Seiko kinetics and found this site with its wealth of information; thanks
I have a couple of Seiko kinetic movements, a 5M62 and a 5M63.
I suspect that the capacitor needs to be replaced in the 63 as it is in the 2 second 'tick' mode and even with continual wear there is little or no reservoir showing. (5 second indicator at the most and only for a short time)
However, having read about the various induction methods of charging I want to give it one last shot before purchasing the capacitor kit.
I would like to try the Philips Imageo induction candle charger which I have read about here on this forum.
I have found that the base only is available on Amazon UK, but I would then need to purchase a suitable charger.
As I have collected lots of chargers over the years, would anyone be kind enough to let me have the voltage/current requirements of the Imageo charging base?
A photograph showing the best location/orentation of the kinetic movement on the induction charger would be greatly appreciated.
I am considering a complete stripdown of the movement, prior to replacing the capacitor, to clean and lubricate.
Is there such a thing as a illustrated breakdown of these kinetic movements; a link to such would be most useful.
Apologies for so many questions on my first visit.
Best regards
Ivor


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## mrw556 (May 18, 2014)

Best thread ever! I have an old Kinetic circa 1998. Replaced the capacitor twice, every two years. After the second time I was fed up with it. Stuck it in a drawer and bought a Rolex. It's been sitting in that drawer for 12 years. After reading this thread I took it out and stuck it on an old tootbrush charger. It was at 20 seconds indicated charge within an hour. Full after leaving it on overnight. I may just start wearing it again.


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## Soxman5 (Sep 16, 2012)

Hi all, so sorry for asking a very basic question. Just acquired a 200m SKJ diver and immediately started to realize just how hard it is to keep these kinetics fully charged. I pulled out the sonicare charger from my toothbrush but don't see much difference after 24 hours. It's sitting at 20 sec mark, which isn't terrible but would love to see that last jump. After coming home from work today, I picked the watch off the charger and it felt warm -- does that mean the induction is working and I need to just wait it out to see the charge tangibly increase? Or does the heat itself not mean anything? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Interesting stuff ! Thanks for sharing. 

Looks like its worth some DIY testing if one has a collection of Kinetic watches !


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## BarryW (Mar 6, 2006)

I do believe that it means that its working. I have a Seiko charger and the watches do get warm. I rigged up a fan to cool the watch


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## Foxman2k (Jun 16, 2014)

For those using the phillips charger and a bfk, how did you position it and how long did it take? Had mine in their for 12 hrs and no change, charge still shows at the 10 min mark


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

Foxman2k said:


> For those using the phillips charger and a bfk, how did you position it and how long did it take? Had mine in their for 12 hrs and no change, charge still shows at the 10 min mark
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I put my kinetics vertically in the slot and it takes a few days of charging:


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## Recoil Rob (Jun 28, 2014)

Wongsky said:


> I've had mine for a few years, now - the one in your picture, though, looks to have an updated decal with more movement types included in the watch orientations.


I just got a new one on eBay for $150, shipped. It has the older decal but I called Seiko HQ in NJ and they told me it's the same machine but as they added new movements they just added them to the decal. My watch is a Premier Moonphase with a 5D88 cal. movement. On the newer models it's on the white part of the decal with the 5J. They just tell you how to position the specific watch, nothing more. They work with all Seiko Kinetics.

BTW, the 5D88 movement has a power gauge and a 30 day reserve when fully charged. I was doing the winding for 2 hours in front of the TV thing but figured I'd start to wear out parts that way. I tried modifying a Sonicare toothbrush charger but no luck there. I figured my time was worth more than that and the comfort of knowing I won't damage the watch with the Seiko charger pushed me to order it.

If anyone else is interested in getting a charger for $150 shipped to thye US only, contact Athony Plaza at [email protected]. He's Seiko dealer that sells them on ebay for $149 plus $30 shipping from the Philippines but he sold it to me for $150, shipped to the US and will do the same if anyone else wants one. He uses Paypal so you have buyer protection.

Just a PSA, no fiduciary interest at all.


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## Soxman5 (Sep 16, 2012)

Little update from my post last month -- As I said before, I have been charging the SKJ on the Sonicare charger.......well, it has been keeping a solid charge, running for days on end continuously without stopping. the indicator will even tell me that it reaches a max reserve. But then i pull it off the charger, and it will die within a few hours and I'm stuck waving my arms etc to kickstart it. What does this actually mean? That the capacitor is shot? What a pain. Came into a monster over the last few weeks and its been so much easier to just wear that piece, such low maintenance in comparison!


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

Soxman5 said:


> Little update from my post last month -- As I said before, I have been charging the SKJ on the Sonicare charger.......well, it has been keeping a solid charge, running for days on end continuously without stopping. the indicator will even tell me that it reaches a max reserve. But then i pull it off the charger, and it will die within a few hours and I'm stuck waving my arms etc to kickstart it. What does this actually mean? That the capacitor is shot? What a pain. Came into a monster over the last few weeks and its been so much easier to just wear that piece, such low maintenance in comparison!


Typically, in my experience, that's indicative of the capacitor being shot.

I've got several Kinetics and the official charger (YT02A), and after 3.5 hours (long setting for full charge) when the capacitor has been bad, that charge disappears unfeasibly quickly (and yes, I get, indicating full charge may not necessarily be full charge, but should certainly be more than the manner in which it disappears when the cap has gone bad).


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## T. Wong (Apr 5, 2006)

I have a 1997 Seiko AGS and the capacitor died out long ago. I eventually sent it to my buddy in Vancouver, Canada and he removed the rotor and installed a regular battery. It works fine and he is holding the watch for testing. So far so good!

Leganza diver DBS Aston Martin evening mood by blingmeister, on Flickr


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## Recoil Rob (Jun 28, 2014)

I have a YT20A on the way so in the meantime I called Seiko to see if it's possible to overcharge a watch. They told me no, a full charge for my watch (30 day reserve) should take about an hour and the charger turns itself off after an hour anyway. Does this sound about right? Would love if all I had to do was put it on the charger for an hour once a month...



Wongsky said:


> Typically, in my experience, that's indicative of the capacitor being shot.
> 
> I've got several Kinetics and the official charger (YT02A), and after 3.5 hours (long setting for full charge) when the capacitor has been bad, that charge disappears unfeasibly quickly (and yes, I get, indicating full charge may not necessarily be full charge, but should certainly be more than the manner in which it disappears when the cap has gone bad).


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

Recoil Rob said:


> I have a YT20A on the way so in the meantime I called Seiko to see if it's possible to overcharge a watch. They told me no, a full charge for my watch (30 day reserve) should take about an hour and the charger turns itself off after an hour anyway. Does this sound about right? Would love if all I had to do was put it on the charger for an hour once a month...


The YT02A has a sliding two position switch on the side, 30 minutes or 3.5 hours, as the time the charger runs for.

Unless newer ones use an hour, mine works like that. 30 minutes is supposed to be sufficient for a decent level of charge, on-going, and 3.5 hours should see it fully charged.


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## Recoil Rob (Jun 28, 2014)

Figures that tech support would be wrong. I have to say, being new to good watches, that tech support for some major brands is abysmal.



Wongsky said:


> The YT02A has a sliding two position switch on the side, 30 minutes or 3.5 hours, as the time the charger runs for.
> 
> Unless newer ones use an hour, mine works like that. 30 minutes is supposed to be sufficient for a decent level of charge, on-going, and 3.5 hours should see it fully charged.


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## Recoil Rob (Jun 28, 2014)

Is this watch a mod? I looked for images of the Leganza AGS through Google and none have that dial or hands...



T. Wong said:


> I have a 1997 Seiko AGS and the capacitor died out long ago. I eventually sent it to my buddy in Vancouver, Canada and he removed the rotor and installed a regular battery. It works fine and he is holding the watch for testing. So far so good!
> 
> Leganza diver DBS Aston Martin evening mood by blingmeister, on Flickr


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

Recoil Rob said:


> Figures that tech support would be wrong. I have to say, being new to good watches, that tech support for some major brands is abysmal.


Well I didn't want to be absolute - I've had my YT02A for a good few years, now - and I've noticed newer ones have slightly different graphics on the front, to include newer movements - so I wasn't beyond the notion that perhaps these newer models use different time intervals for the operation of the charger.

Just to say, though, my original YT02A uses 30 minutes or 3.5 hours.

When I'm being on the ball, I put all my Kinetics on for 30 minutes a month. As they're mostly 5M42s (upgrading with the Li-Ion cell, and one 5M63) often that period is stretched a bit, and it may be something like 3.5 hours every few months.


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## T. Wong (Apr 5, 2006)

Recoil Rob said:


> Is this watch a mod? I looked for images of the Leganza AGS through Google and none have that dial or hands...


No, Rob, the Leganza is stock, no modification haha! Not much on info for this higher Seiko line in the 1990s. Likely anything popping up is my old postings of it. Back in 2008 on the Yahoo auctions, there were a few used blue dial models with less features, like no day/date. The watches from this line were quite expensive (my diver sold for over $700 back then!), so very few ever reached outside of Japan.

googling 'seiko leganza' brought up this photo site https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=s...lE-K4mwWGi4KAAw&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1269&bih=817

You will see my Leganza chrono photo!


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## Recoil Rob (Jun 28, 2014)

Well, it certainly is a looker!

Were all Leganza's in the AGS series or the other way round?

thanks, Rob


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## Recoil Rob (Jun 28, 2014)

My Seiko YT02A charger arrived by mail today, $150 shipped from the Philippines. The seller include and adapter for US outlets but I had a computer cord fit into the transformer. The reserve on my Premier Moonphase with the 5D88 caliber was down to 5 days. I set it on the charger for 3.5 hours, a full 30 day charge! beats winding it for a few hours every month. I figure I'll do it every 3 weeks so the capacitor never gets a chance to fully discharge.

If anyone is interested in one PM me and I will give you the sellers email. It took 17 days by Philpost but he provide the tracking number and and packed it well.

Rob


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## T. Wong (Apr 5, 2006)

Recoil Rob said:


> Well, it certainly is a looker!
> 
> Were all Leganza's in the AGS series or the other way round?
> 
> thanks, Rob


There is scant info on this Leganza line. Nothing found on it except for photos of my watch and a blue dial one with date only. I guess Seiko discontinued it shortly after due to low sales.


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## T. Wong (Apr 5, 2006)

FYI, I just had my leganza Seiko diver converted into a regular battery run watch. My friend in Canada removed the rotor and installed a battery. He tested the watch for several days and reported all went fine! So, now I can wear this great watch again and not worry about maintaining a charge!

Seiko Leganza Diver ti sunset by blingmeister, on Flickr


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## regtor (Apr 20, 2010)

Recoil Rob said:


> My Seiko YT02A charger arrived by mail today, $150 shipped from the Philippines. The seller include and adapter for US outlets but I had a computer cord fit into the transformer. The reserve on my Premier Moonphase with the 5D88 caliber was down to 5 days. I set it on the charger for 3.5 hours, a full 30 day charge! beats winding it for a few hours every month. I figure I'll do it every 3 weeks so the capacitor never gets a chance to fully discharge.
> 
> If anyone is interested in one PM me and I will give you the sellers email. It took 17 days by Philpost but he provide the tracking number and and packed it well.
> 
> Rob


Hi there - I also bought a YT02A charger, from the 'Bay, probably from the same guy in the Philippines that you did. Same price as well. So far it has charged all three of my kinetics easily, including an older yellow BFK that I could never get to the "30 seconds" full charge mark. It has the 3.5 hr and 30 min settings. 3.5 hrs got the BFK from 10 seconds to 30 seconds. On my other newer kinetics, 30 minutes got it from 20 seconds to the 30 seconds full charge reading.

Does your charger also make a high pitched buzz while charging? Also, does the watch get fairly warm, especially after the 3.5 hour charge? I assume this is all normal but wondering if you had the same experience.

All in all, I'm pleased with the charger. yes it's a little pricey but if you have several kinetics (like I do) it makes keeping them charged so easy that to me it's worth it.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

regtor said:


> Hi there - I also bought a YT02A charger, from the 'Bay, probably from the same guy in the Philippines that you did. Same price as well. So far it has charged all three of my kinetics easily, including an older yellow BFK that I could never get to the "30 seconds" full charge mark. It has the 3.5 hr and 30 min settings. 3.5 hrs got the BFK from 10 seconds to 30 seconds. On my other newer kinetics, 30 minutes got it from 20 seconds to the 30 seconds full charge reading.
> 
> Does your charger also make a high pitched buzz while charging? Also, does the watch get fairly warm, especially after the 3.5 hour charge? I assume this is all normal but wondering if you had the same experience.
> 
> All in all, I'm pleased with the charger. yes it's a little pricey but if you have several kinetics (like I do) it makes keeping them charged so easy that to me it's worth it.


There's some warmth in a watch when it's been on a while - but then you'd expect that.

Mine doesn't make a buzzing noise, so much, more a quite high-pitched tone. I think not everyone can always hear such frequencies - I know my TV also makes a high pitched faint ringing noise, that my then wife could never hear, but I could. A year or two back, we all had hearing tests, due to investigations into hearing problems in one of my kids, and the results bore that out, I can hear markedly higher frequencies than she could.

Can't remember whether it was suggested that there's any geneder correlation in that or not.


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## Recoil Rob (Jun 28, 2014)

That could explain why I don't hear anything, I have tinnitus that manifests itself in a high frequency noise. I used to be able to hear the tuning fork in my Accutron, kept me up at night, no longer...


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## regtor (Apr 20, 2010)

And I thought too many Ramones shows had done my hearing in. Thanks guys, just wanted to confirm the slight noise and the warmth are normal.


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## AVS_Racing (Aug 16, 2014)

SO after almost a week of messing around to my CHRISTMAS SURPRISE the Braun charger worked, I've tried so many different positions watch flat, on charger 6 o'clock towards the back of the charger, 9 o'clock towards the back, tilting, dial down towards charger pole like the Seiko OEM charger set up, even upside down, base of the charger to the base of the watch, I got nothing. I've even used a Palm pre touch stone QI charger and didn't get any results. HOWEVER and this is a big HOWEVER, there is no way that I can confirm if the previous methods actually gave the watch some charge or not since my watch has 20 sec power reserve when I tested all this it just never went to 30 sec till my final position that I can confirm works since it took it to fully charged. On all previous methods I've left the watch at least 8-12 hours in each position as I usually leave it over night but I just didn't see any gain in power. MAYBE the watch was being charged the whole time, I don't know, I don't know if its cuz the charge system is so inefficient. BUT on my final position that I got actual results out of, I left the watch 24 hours in this position and this morning I got full charge. notice the position of the crown and battery pusher button what ever its called. The watch is slightly offset so the "power pole" is closer to 7 o'clock than 5 o'clock.

















It was a HUGE HASSLE I was so close to buying the Philips LED lights for the charger but I'm so glad this FINALLY WORKED, (just extremely slow, like you have to leave it in the same position for days to get any results so maybe my tests weren't effective because I was impatient.) So now maybe I will buy a SUN019, but then SEIKO QC is extremely bad lately. All 3 of my new Seikos that I bought all has dial, bezel, chapter ring alignment issues. =(


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## Foxman2k (Jun 16, 2014)

For what it's worth, especially if you own multiple kinetics the Phillips charger is really worth it. Only $50 and my wife likes the candles it comes with a lot so win/win


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

AVS_Racing said:


> SO after almost a week of messing around to my CHRISTMAS SURPRISE the Braun charger worked, I've tried so many different positions watch flat, on charger 6 o'clock towards the back of the charger, 9 o'clock towards the back, tilting, dial down towards charger pole like the Seiko OEM charger set up, even upside down, base of the charger to the base of the watch, I got nothing. I've even used a Palm pre touch stone QI charger and didn't get any results. HOWEVER and this is a big HOWEVER, there is no way that I can confirm if the previous methods actually gave the watch some charge or not since my watch has 20 sec power reserve when I tested all this it just never went to 30 sec till my final position that I can confirm works since it took it to fully charged. On all previous methods I've left the watch at least 8-12 hours in each position as I usually leave it over night but I just didn't see any gain in power. MAYBE the watch was being charged the whole time, I don't know, I don't know if its cuz the charge system is so inefficient. BUT on my final position that I got actual results out of, I left the watch 24 hours in this position and this morning I got full charge. notice the position of the crown and battery pusher button what ever its called. The watch is slightly offset so the "power pole" is closer to 7 o'clock than 5 o'clock.
> 
> View attachment 2421121
> 
> ...


Conglad !
Another successful attempt.
yes, from my experience, it does takes a couple of days to get it full charge.
But hey.... For the €£¥$ its worth it.


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## professore (Aug 29, 2014)

My 5M63--placed exactly as in this picture--reached a full charge in two days. I had not been able to get to more than the 5 second position through normal wearing. Thanks for the information. Sorry. The picture to which I refer is in post #150.


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## SirPaulGerman (May 30, 2011)

what is the best charger for a Seiko seiko 4m21 ?


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## Recoil Rob (Jun 28, 2014)

Seiko only makes one charger, the YT02A. I got mine from a source in the Philippines, I found him very reputable to deal with. His contact info is in post #166. 4M is the yellow at the 6 o'clock position.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

G'day from "Down Under".

I can confirm that my 5M85 is charging on a "toothbrush charger". My setup is exactly like you see in post #149 -- Thanks Conky!! The same charger too as my wife already had that model.

I put the watch on the "charger" around 10PM yesterday - it's power reserve was already at the "20 sec" mark prior to charging - and this morning at 9:30AM it's showing me the "30 sec" mark, and I definitely did not wear it to bed!! ;-)

Nice to know that it works.

EDIT: After a week my 5M85 is back to the "20 sec" mark, so that means that after 12hrs on the charger I got a week of battery time (I didn't wear it during the week)


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## Patrick333 (Nov 25, 2011)

The toothbrush charger works with my BFK SKA371. Put it on the charger last night with a 5sec charge indication and today in the morning it was at 10sec. Charge.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Thanks so much for that post, AVS_Racing. I had been on the lookout for a used Seiko kinetic charger, but I just can't get myself to buy something that costs more than what I paid for my watch! I have only one kinetic as well.

I also have an extra Braun toothbrush charger (the toothbrush battery long died, got a new one), which I'm now trying out. I may modify it, cutting into part of the base to allow easier positioning of the watch without removing the band.

*QUESTION*: For the BFK *SKA413*, what is the optimal position? I saw a cut-away image that showed the 6~7 o'clock position and it looks like there are 2 coils in that area. Do you focus on one, or try to center on both?

I simply don't wear my kinetic enough to charge by wearing. When I go running, I'd strap it on my right wrist to help, but that's a bit of a pain after a while (the heavy watch doesn't feel very good when running). I'd also shake the watch around while watching a TV program--you can get in a "rhythm" that is almost autonomic, but it's annoying for anyone seated near you. 

Anyway, there are some new chargers out for cellular phones that use this induction method. However, you need a "receiver" plugged into the phone, which I think is probably some kind of coil mechanism (much like what is inside the Seiko Kinetic watches). For $4 from HongKong, it may be worth trying out. The small portable chargers are simple flat discs, which would make positioning much easier than the toothbrush chargers.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Does anyone know if the Braun toothbrush charging "pegs" have electrified surfaces all around it, or is that focused in one area:
1) cylindrical part
2) flat top part


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Well, I was fortunate enough to have a charge level at a "border" indication - the top end of "10 seconds" (1 to 4 weeks charge level). If I shook the watch a bit in the morning, it would start to show 20 seconds (approx 1 month). But by the end of the day it would slip back to 10 seconds.

I didn't want to take the band off, as I couldn't easily retrieve the box with that tool for removing it. So it wasn't possible to position the watch as some have shown it, adjacent to the side of the charging post. So I rested the watch on top of the post, positioned around the 7 o'clock area.

After letting it sit for about 24 hours, I checked the level -- shows 20 seconds. So it's working! I have no idea how efficient though. I'm going to check it daily and see how long it takes to reach the 30 seconds level.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Well, it's definitely charging, but after 4 days now I still don't see 30 seconds indication. Maybe I don't have the right position? I saw someone else say it took them just 24 hours to go from 20 secs to 30 secs.










This is the movement for an SKA413, so based on the positions it looks like 5~6 o'clock and 9 o'clock are where the coils are. I presume it is best to position the coil directly on top of the charging post?


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## Foxman2k (Jun 16, 2014)

I think I read that since the difference between the 20 and the 30 seconds markers is 1 months vs 6 months, it can take quite a while. I have the Phillips led charger which took a BFK from 5 second to 30 in about 2 days


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## RuslanS (Oct 15, 2011)

My addition to this topic.
I have a great watch, Seiko "Grey Ghost" SBCZ005, a little bit old.
I tried to charge it with Oral-B toothbrush charger - no luck.
Today I tried Phillips charger (almost like this): 







It really works! Within two hours charge level increases from 10 minutes to 20 minutes!


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

xevious said:


> Does anyone know if the Braun toothbrush charging "pegs" have electrified surfaces all around it, or is that focused in one area:
> 1) cylindrical part
> 2) flat top part


I found this web site that seems to explain how the toothbrush charger works : Induction chargers and Powermats - How do they work?


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Pete_JBK said:


> I found this web site that seems to explain how the toothbrush charger works : Induction chargers and Powermats - How do they work?


Thank you, Pete. Now it makes sense -- positioning on the side is best. I'm going to hack through mine to make it easier to align the watch.

After 2 weeks, I think I've just about filled up the 20 second level. When I spun the pendulum around (as opposed to back-and-forth, swirl the watch in a circle and you can make the pendulum swing around non-stop, until you stop), I could momentarily get the 30 second charge level to show. So, that's a good sign. This was charging with the top of the post flush against the watch casing

If that doesn't seem to do the trick, I'll just get one of those Philips lights.


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## teatimecrumpet (Mar 14, 2013)

Anyone try one of those wireless charging mats? Qi? I see them on ebay for like $10. 

I've got a bfk and a newer sonicare basic tootgbrush charger but havent been able to get it charged.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

teatimecrumpet said:


> Anyone try one of those wireless charging mats? Qi? I see them on ebay for like $10.
> 
> I've got a bfk and a newer sonicare basic tootgbrush charger but havent been able to get it charged.


I've been wondering about those too. There are aftermarket versions available as cheaply as $4. I may just pick one up to see if it works -- worth the price just to know.


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## teatimecrumpet (Mar 14, 2013)

xevious said:


> I've been wondering about those too. There are aftermarket versions available as cheaply as $4. I may just pick one up to see if it works -- worth the price just to know.


I'm sure the forum would appreciate it! (Mostly just me). But your braun toothbrush charger is already working for you so i wouldn't make the extra expense.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

teatimecrumpet said:


> I'm sure the forum would appreciate it! (Mostly just me). But your braun toothbrush charger is already working for you so i wouldn't make the extra expense.


Trouble is, it's not working well. I was at that borderline place of 10sec/20sec. I would shake up the watch, it would start reading 20sec, but by the end of the day it would be back down to 10sec indication. When I left it on the charger, it worked its way up into the 20sec indication. I left it off for a few days and it remained there... so it has been charging. But now, I've left it on the charger for 2 weeks and still not up to 30sec.

However, if I do a "swirl" circular motion, making the pendulum spin around non-stop for as long as I can take it, the charge indication bumps up to 30sec. That lasts a short while, then it drops back to 20sec. So... it may be nearing the 30sec level. I will probably trim the charger so the coils inside the SKA413 can get a closer position to the charging post.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Well, that did it. :-! Resting the watch with the 6 o'clock region of the case back aligned to the side of the charging post gave it enough of a boost. My SKA413 is now showing 30sec charge level without having to manually shake it and after an hour of leaving it off the charger, it's still showing a 30sec indication. I'll still have to play around with this to see what's the optimal position (and if I may need to modify the charger), so at least I don't have to bother shelling out $50 for the Philips chargeable LED candles (which I really don't need).


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## teatimecrumpet (Mar 14, 2013)

xevious said:


> Well, that did it. :-! Resting the watch with the 6 o'clock region of the case back aligned to the side of the charging post gave it enough of a boost. My SKA413 is now showing 30sec charge level without having to manually shake it and after an hour of leaving it off the charger, it's still showing a 30sec indication. I'll still have to play around with this to see what's the optimal position (and if I may need to modify the charger), so at least I don't have to bother shelling out $50 for the Philips chargeable LED candles (which I really don't need).


That's awesome! I'd cut up my toothbrush charger...except I still need it.

However, this deals website I always go to just happened to show me this for $3:

Hot Fashion Qi Wireless Charger Mini Charge Pad for Samsung Galaxy S3 S4 Note 2 | eBay

I'll let everyone know how it goes...when it comes...in a month from china...


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

I had a spare toothbrush charger, when the older toothbrush battery died. Wasn't worth trying to replace the proprietary battery (would be great if they used an 18650 in them). Cool that you ordered one of those. I may just go ahead and get one as well, they're so cheap. 


Btw, previously my toothbrush charger was working really slowly... because it was resting it on the top of the post. I discovered that the watch needs to not only be positioned against the side of the post (parallel with the coil), but the internal coils of the watch need to be close to it. There are two coils, as revealed in the exposed movement image for my watch, so I presume you just pick one of them.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Guess everyone else moved on. It has been over 2 weeks since I took my watch off the charger. It is still showing a 30sec charge level. So the positioning really made a difference (with watch standing vertically, resting against the post).


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Good to hear that its worked out for you!


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## c5k0 (Feb 19, 2013)

xevious said:


> Guess everyone else moved on. It has been over 2 weeks since I took my watch off the charger. It is still showing a 30sec charge level. So the positioning really made a difference (with watch standing vertically, resting against the post).


Hi Xevious,

Wondering if you could post a quick image of how you have your Kinetic aligned?


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## Bigjamesdean (Mar 11, 2009)

I charged my SUN023 this way, crown down back leaning against the pole took 24hours for a full 60day charge


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

I'm still interested ;-)

My experience so far: I have left my SUN017 (Cal. 5M85) on the "charger" for up to a week once the charge reaches the "30 sec" mark, but I still am only getting 5 days out of it before it returns to the "20 sec" mark. I need to try a different position. At least I know that the "charger" will give me a month or so of charge at a time. Sure beats swinging it while "watching" the telly 

-Pete


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## cambrid (Jan 18, 2011)

Little bit OT, but......

I'm on the cusp of buying a BFK and this thread is making me think that this beautiful watch might actually be a PITA?

Question 1. I don't wear my automatic 007 at work, but wear it around the house in the evening and in bed (I know) just to keep it fully charged, would this keep a kinetic charged up?

Question 2. Does it really mater that the watch is "fully" charged, what I mean is, as long as it doesn't go flat between wears it's going to work fine isn't it?

Cheers if anyone has any input.


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

@cambrid:

1) Yes, what is written on the manual of one of my kinetics (at least 10 hours per day, 7 days per week) is definitely pessimistic. In my experience what you plan to do is more than enough

2) You are right but initially I believe it is better to get a full charge


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## cambrid (Jan 18, 2011)

Kilovolt said:


> @cambrid:
> 
> 1) Yes, what is written on the manual of one of my kinetics (at least 10 hours per day, 7 days per week) is definitely pessimistic. In my experience what you plan to do is more than enough
> 
> 2) You are right but initially I believe it is better to get a full charge


Thanks, I appreciate your "Ronseal" response.

ATB


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## Cobia (Nov 24, 2013)

Do these chargers actually turn the wheel inside to charge the battery of somehow send power to the battery?
sorry if ive missed it in the thread, its a long one, cheers


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

Cobia said:


> Do these chargers actually turn the wheel inside to charge the battery of somehow send power to the battery?
> sorry if ive missed it in the thread, its a long one, cheers


Induction.


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2012)

Cobia said:


> Do these chargers actually turn the wheel inside to charge the battery of somehow send power to the battery?
> sorry if ive missed it in the thread, its a long one, cheers


There's no mechanical parts involved in this, the tiny generator inside the watch has a magnet that is rotated by the rotor and induces a voltage in a coil wound around it. The external charger's electromagnetic field induces the voltage directly in the said coil without the need of a revolving magnet.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

c5k0 said:


> Hi Xevious,
> 
> Wondering if you could post a quick image of how you have your Kinetic aligned?


Actually, the other photos people have shown are about the same as what I've done. Back of the watch casing against the side of the post near the 6 o'clock position. Seems to have worked great for me. :-!


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## teatimecrumpet (Mar 14, 2013)

Checked some earlier post in this thread and didn't see this asked.

But is it possible to overcharge the battery on a bfk and do damage to battery or watch?


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

Check the User Guide that came with your model. My one for the Cal. 5M85 has this to say (see highlighted section in pic):









--Pete


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

xevious said:


> Well, that did it. :-! Resting the watch with the 6 o'clock region of the case back aligned to the side of the charging post gave it enough of a boost. My SKA413 is now showing 30sec charge level without having to manually shake it and after an hour of leaving it off the charger, it's still showing a 30sec indication. I'll still have to play around with this to see what's the optimal position (and if I may need to modify the charger), so at least I don't have to bother shelling out $50 for the Philips chargeable LED candles (which I really don't need).


3 weeks later, it is now showing 20sec charge level (I've worn it only 3 times since). Given how long I left it on the charger, that's pretty good. :-!


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## jmendel (Jul 9, 2014)

What works for me on my BFK Place your turn table at a 45 Degre angle. Tape the watch face up near the outer edge of the platter. Let run for 24 hours. You will get a ful charge


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## teatimecrumpet (Mar 14, 2013)

Well i bought a cheap $3 Qi charger and it did NOT work for me.

I even took it apart and laid my bfk's caseback on the side of the coiled wires and on the magnet disc.

Both for about each. But the charge indicatir continued to show the same level.

I haf better luck with the toothbrush charger


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## RuslanS (Oct 15, 2011)

RuslanS said:


> My addition to this topic.
> I have a great watch, Seiko "Grey Ghost" SBCZ005, a little bit old.
> I tried to charge it with Oral-B toothbrush charger - no luck.
> ...
> It really works! Within two hours charge level increases from 10 minutes to 20 minutes!


One month passed - charge level decreased to 20 seconds (worn 2-3 times).
Not bad.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

teatimecrumpet said:


> Well i bought a cheap $3 Qi charger and it did NOT work for me.
> 
> I even took it apart and laid my bfk's caseback on the side of the coiled wires and on the magnet disc.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear it didn't work out. I had a feeling it was a long shot, so I didn't bother. At least now we know for certain. Buy a used Braun toothbrush charger on the cheap. That's the easiest way to go. The charging on the post actually works. A bit slow, but good enough! :-!


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## RuslanS (Oct 15, 2011)

RuslanS said:


> One month passed - charge level decreased to 20 seconds (worn 2-3 times).
> Not bad.


Another update
3 months after full charge using Philips candle charger. Virtually no using (2-3 days of wearing). Still has 20 seconds charge level. Awesome! And my 5m63 is 8 years old (feb 2007).


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

I need to buy that Philip Candle Charger to try and post some review.
Any one in Singapore has one that I can borrow or buy ?


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## geengar (Feb 26, 2014)

Just wondering whether anybody had tried using Samsung wireless charging pad to charge the kinetic watch?


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## drainaps (Nov 8, 2012)

Can somebody share the exact reference number of the Philips candles / charger we need to buy? Thanks!


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

geengar said:


> Just wondering whether anybody had tried using Samsung wireless charging pad to charge the kinetic watch?


Me want to know too !


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## nicholas.d (Jun 30, 2013)

Anyone used Wii induction charger?
They put out 550 mah x2


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## jmendel (Jul 9, 2014)

I use my old turn table. Set it at a 45 degree angle tape it to the edge of the platter. Set it at 45 RPM. After about eight hours full charge on my BFK.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

jmendel said:


> I use my old turn table. Set it at a 45 degree angle tape it to the edge of the platter. Set it at 45 RPM. After about eight hours full charge on my BFK.


Good use of old tech !!


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

drainaps said:


> Can somebody share the exact reference number of the Philips candles / charger we need to buy? Thanks!


Philips 818655 Imageo CandleLight ... showing on Amazon right now.


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## geengar (Feb 26, 2014)

xzqt said:


> Me want to know too !


Bro xzqt and all,

I have test the S5 wireless charger kit and it is not possible to charge using it. Apparently, the charging pad will charge when in contact with the charging backcover of the phone. I tried putting my newly acquired SUN023 on the backcover but no charge was generated.

OT a little, does anybody have problem screwing the battery test nut of the SUN023? I have problem screwing it so now I leave it unscrew, hope it does not affect the water proofing of the watch (I do not dive or swim with the watch).


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks, I am borrowing a S5 wireless chargeing dock for test for the week too.
Let me double confirm after testing it for 1 weeks.

*some time it takes a couple of trial postion.

Update : dont seems to be working ! Tried 4 position, each for 3 hours.
Kinetic watch use has no problem charging with the Braun. 
Trying more position in thr next few days and report.


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

Update :
S5 charging dock...... not working.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

jmendel said:


> I use my old turn table. Set it at a 45 degree angle tape it to the edge of the platter. Set it at 45 RPM. After about eight hours full charge on my BFK.


Thanks "jmendel". That works for my 5D22 also. I mounted the watch so that the face is vertical at the bottom of the turn, and horizontal at the top of the turn. The old player tilted at 45 deg using the 45-RPM setting. Good thing about the Direct Drive is that I can actually see that it's getting a charge


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## AVS_Racing (Aug 16, 2014)

I'm currently testing this position, to see if it will charge my Kinetic Tuna since you guys seem to say it isn't really the pole that outputs the power but the base. I left it for about 6 hours in my previous BFK position but I haven't seen the power reserve go up to gonna give this a try.


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## ZeBedeu (Jun 23, 2015)

Hi people! someone tried a chinese generic wireless charger for Moto360 smartwatch?

Like this:

http://pt..........s.com/item/Mogoi...ger-Cradle-for-MOTO360-Watch/32422588777.html


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

Broken link.


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## rob3rto (Jul 10, 2014)

xzqt said:


> Broken link.


Censored link more like


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Amazon link for the MOTO360 induction charger:

Amazon.com: Replacement Wireless Charger Cradle for Moto 360 Third Party Replacement Charger (Gray): Cell Phones & Accessories


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## casieko (Jul 23, 2015)

My watch got really warm when charged with Braun. Wonder if that is a good sign of charging.


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## meoramri (Aug 2, 2015)

My Braun charger does charge the watch. The watch does get warm to the touch but not to the extent it is uncomfortable to hold


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## darmok (Oct 11, 2015)

I have just purchased a Seiko SUN019 with the 5M85 movement. Reading this forum I also purchased the Dakota REQ charger, however I don't seem to have the correct alignment for it to work with the SUN019. Can anyone with this comb offer advice? Thank you from a new forum member!


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## darmok (Oct 11, 2015)

geengar said:


> Bro xzqt and all,
> 
> I have test the S5 wireless charger kit and it is not possible to charge using it. Apparently, the charging pad will charge when in contact with the charging backcover of the phone. I tried putting my newly acquired SUN023 on the backcover but no charge was generated.
> 
> ...


----------



## Charlieaa (Jan 28, 2016)

This thread hasn't been active for quite sometime. Just bought a new Seiko SUN019 and ordered the Dakota REQ charger. Does anyone know the correct position for the watch to sit on the charger? As a side question I am a little puzzled at the lum glow going down so quick. How long does the lum have to be exposed to light (what type) to get it to glow the longest period of time.Thanks for any input and help in advance. This is my first post.


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## Derek N (Jun 12, 2006)

I have been successfully keeping up the charge on my Seiko SUN019 using my Wolf Winder. The secret is that instead of orienting the watch the normal way so that it rotates with the dial facing outwards; I remove the cushion and place the watch inside the barrel so that it rotates laterally. So far, I haven't worn the watch that much and it still maintains its 6 month charge.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

Derek N said:


> I have been successfully keeping up the charge on my Seiko SUN019 using my Wolf Winder. The secret is that instead of orienting the watch the normal way so that it rotates with the dial facing outwards; I remove the cushion and place the watch inside the barrel so that it rotates laterally. So far, I haven't worn the watch that much and it still maintains its 6 month charge.


Thanks for your info. May we ask what timing sequence you are using? Most winders are programmable, so it would help to know what setting you are using.

I am still using an old record player to keep the charge up to my 2 Kinetics and it does a great job. I use a similar mounting position to what you are using with your Wolf Winder.

--Pete


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## Burnrub (Dec 11, 2010)

I just picked up the Phillips induction charger from Amazon for about $50 bucks. It's not the fastest charge, but it's pretty easy to position the watches on it and it is definitely working! It's way easier to find the right position than when I was using a toothbrush charger.


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## notional (Feb 23, 2011)

Wow...this is one long thread to sort through, and I don't think I saw anyone who's tried the MTM watch inductive charger. Has anyone tried it? If not, I'm expecting the Kinetic Tuna SUN019 this week and I do have an MTM inductive charger, so if no one can answer before I try it out, I'll let everyone know. Thanks!


----------



## petr_cha (Jun 15, 2011)

Please does anyone tried cell phone Qi charger pads ? May it work with kinetics or too weak to charge it properly?


----------



## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

Had tried with the Samsung S5 wireless charger, not working.
Probably same for the Qi charger.


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## Willmax (Aug 30, 2012)

I've tried with two different Braun chargers and had no luck. To the point that I sold all my kinetics and now only have one left.

I do like many of the Seiko Kinetic designs but I refuse to buy kinetics anymore as a matter of principle. I won't be supporting Seiko kinetic watches until the day Seiko decides to get of their backside and make available a kinetic charger that is reasonably price, I'm sure the technology has advanced enough, lots of other companies are using this type of charger already. If you have a handfull of watches it would be nearly impossible to keep up with the kinetic charging needs. Gosh I'm grumpy! Rant over and out.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

Willmax said:


> I've tried with two different Braun chargers and had no luck. To the point that I sold all my kinetics and now only have one left.
> 
> I do like many of the Seiko Kinetic designs but I refuse to buy kinetics anymore as a matter of principle. I won't be supporting Seiko kinetic watches until the day Seiko decides to get of their backside and make available a kinetic charger that is reasonably price, I'm sure the technology has advanced enough, lots of other companies are using this type of charger already. If you have a handfull of watches it would be nearly impossible to keep up with the kinetic charging needs. Gosh I'm grumpy! Rant over and out.


Thing is, I'm far from convinced this problem is of Seiko's making. Firstly, they probably don't / didn't expect the average owner to have several Kinetics. And I'm not convinced it's purely Seiko who are responsible for how expensive the official induction charger (YT02A) is / tends to be sold at.

I own a YT02A that I bought from a well known watch / parts supplier in the UK. I bought it around mid 2000s (2005 at a guess), and a while back I found the box in the loft, which had the invoice and receipt in - it cost me £36 (UK pounds), including delivery, and was brand new at the time.

I don't know if there's any official price recommended by Seiko, but I'm sure when I found one to buy, I searched for it (YT02A) found it on their website and ordered it over the phone. It was no special deal, or one off, just the price it was advertised at, at the time.

Now yes they all seem to be sold at considerably higher prices these days, but is that just opportunism?


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

I'm on my third Braun electric toothbrush and when the batteries in the older ones wouldn't take much of a charge, I disposed of them... but kept the charger as a backup. I've been using one to periodically charge my SKA413 kinetic. It takes about 10 days to bring it up from low power indication to full. That's long relative to what a $200 charger will do, but I don't mind. Granted, I find the principle of the kinetic taking so long to charge by hand to be a bit of a bummer, if it is not being worn frequently. But the watch casing design is terrific and movement is reasonably accurate. So I'm keeping it for now.

Philips makes these rechargeable "tea lights" that use a plug-in base, as other have noted. Not expensive and you can use that to charge as well.

But I'm fully on board with the annoyance factor. If SEIKO wants to boost their kinetic sales, they should offer a much more affordable charger. Given how the charger from a $30 USD electric toothbrush kit can charge this, I'm sure SEIKO could make a nicely stylish consumer grade charger with a price of about $50 USD ($40 discount), and would sell a lot of them. So sales on the charger and enabling people to own multiple kinetics without having to worry about charging all the time.


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

xevious said:


> I'm on my third Braun electric toothbrush and when the batteries in the older ones wouldn't take much of a charge, I disposed of them... but kept the charger as a backup. I've been using one to periodically charge my SKA413 kinetic. It takes about 10 days to bring it up from low power indication to full. That's long relative to what a $200 charger will do, but I don't mind. Granted, I find the principle of the kinetic taking so long to charge by hand to be a bit of a bummer, if it is not being worn frequently. But the watch casing design is terrific and movement is reasonably accurate. So I'm keeping it for now.
> 
> Philips makes these rechargeable "tea lights" that use a plug-in base, as other have noted. Not expensive and you can use that to charge as well.
> 
> But I'm fully on board with the annoyance factor. If SEIKO wants to boost their kinetic sales, they should offer a much more affordable charger. Given how the charger from a $30 USD electric toothbrush kit can charge this, I'm sure SEIKO could make a nicely stylish consumer grade charger with a price of about $50 USD ($40 discount), and would sell a lot of them. So sales on the charger and enabling people to own multiple kinetics without having to worry about charging all the time.


I imagine Seiko doesn't want their kinetics perceived as needing an external charger (solar doesn't need one). Their charger is meant for watchmakers, and is a low volume product, thus the high price (though I don't rule out price-gouging as someone mentioned above). Seems to me the "tea lights" at $40 work well and are even dual purpose!


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Sean779 said:


> I imagine Seiko doesn't want their kinetics perceived as needing an external charger (solar doesn't need one). Their charger is meant for watchmakers, and is a low volume product, thus the high price (though I don't rule out price-gouging as someone mentioned above). Seems to me the "tea lights" at $40 work well and are even dual purpose!


Well, I've seen enough postings from people who gave up on kinetics because of the hassle on charging them up. SEIKO doesn't need to advertise the chargers. Just make them available upon request and at a consumer reasonable price. The ones sold to jewelers are very robust... because they might charge a bunch of watches on a continual basis. If the "tea lights" worked notably better than the electric toothbrush chargers I'd probably get a set. It sounds to me like they're only marginally better.


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## Derek N (Jun 12, 2006)

Pete_JBK said:


> Thanks for your info. May we ask what timing sequence you are using? Most winders are programmable, so it would help to know what setting you are using.
> 
> I am still using an old record player to keep the charge up to my 2 Kinetics and it does a great job. I use a similar mounting position to what you are using with your Wolf Winder.
> 
> --Pete


Sure Pete, I have the winder set for 900 TPD and bi-rotational spin. I figure that that should be enough of a spin throughout the day to keep it charged fully. I do rotate it out of the winder with other watches, so it does not sit in there 24/7. And it has kept the 6 month charge without any problems.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

Derek N said:


> Sure Pete, I have the winder set for 900 TPD and bi-rotational spin. I figure that that should be enough of a spin throughout the day to keep it charged fully. I do rotate it out of the winder with other watches, so it does not sit in there 24/7. And it has kept the 6 month charge without any problems.


Thanks Derek. There will be lots of Kinetic owners that should find that info very helpful.

Cheers ...


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## xzqt (Jan 26, 2013)

Hey Seiko. I know you are secretly listening. 
So many reissue and new affordable Tuna.

Its about time a re-launch of an affordable kinetic charger !?!?

Will be waiting.......
Many are waiting.......


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## mapotofu (Jan 7, 2016)

I've been keeping my BFK charged by just wearing it while going on an hour run once a week. It's fully charged after every run even though I haven't worn it much at all otherwise.

I also have a sonicare toothbrush charger but haven't figured out how to use it to charge the BFK.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

xzqt said:


> Hey Seiko ....... Its about time a re-launch of an affordable kinetic charger !?!?
> 
> Will be waiting.......
> Many are waiting.......


Maybe they already have ... ????

Back in June last year I was checking around the "Net" just to see what was available from Mr Seiko and His Kinetic Charger (the YT02A) and I came across this model that was up for sale (I didn't buy it as it was over-priced like 99% of them).

Notice the power rating on the back of the unit and compare that to most YT02As that are currently available on the "Net" ...









PSU rated the same ...









Most of the YT02As that I have seen on the "Net" only have a 9V 0.5A rating ...

Mmmm ...

Someone must know something ...

Anybody ???


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

Pete_JBK said:


> Maybe they already have ... ????
> 
> Back in June last year I was checking around the "Net" just to see what was available from Mr Seiko and His Kinetic Charger (the YT02A) and I came across this model that was up for sale (I didn't buy it as it was over-priced like 99% of them).
> 
> ...


Mine, that was bought around 2005, is 0.5A.

The newer models have an updated decal that includes another orientation for a different movement (7L), that's not mentioned on my earlier YT02A. I suspect it would still work in charging a 7L movement, so long as the crown was orientated in the correct position.


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## gizzzmo (Aug 29, 2008)

+1 for the philips tea lights: charges my 2nd Kinetic (SUN021P1) without any issues or fiddling for a special position. 

@Z5 compact


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## petr_cha (Jun 15, 2011)

Do you mean philips candle lights (sold with induction charger) ? I can see them in my local web shop for cca 40 bucks, so I going to test it..

At least I can say it is a gift for my wife


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## lewie (Jun 2, 2013)

gizzzmo said:


> +1 for the philips tea lights: charges my 2nd Kinetic (SUN021P1) without any issues or fiddling for a special position.
> 
> @Z5 compact


How do you place them in and how long does it take?


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## AirWatch (Jan 15, 2008)

lewie said:


> How do you place them in and how long does it take?


Face and 6 o'clock down seems to be the position that makes the most contact with most Kinetics. It really doesn't take all that long, anywhere between an hour or two to a day or two depending on the state of charge. Every push of the light on the charger, turns it on for 12 hours.


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## drainaps (Nov 8, 2012)

Can someone please post a couple of pics on how to use the Philips tealight charger? Ideally with a SUN 019 and estimated charge time? 

I I bought the tealights a few months back, and tried once to charge the SUN 019 (face forward, 6 o'clock down) and the charge needle didn't move noticeably after 24 hours so I moved on? (and yes I did push the red charge button before you guys ask ☺). 

By the way I agree it makes a terrific dual technology gadget. My wife loves those lights. I think it's the first time ever one of my watch gadgets gets such a high approval rate from her?


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## Charlieaa (Jan 28, 2016)

The Dakota Charger I couldn't get to charge , so bit the bullet and bought the official Seiko charger. Set the charger for 3.5 hours and positioned the watch per the stem direction of the specific movement. Got to 10 second mark I though it would go to the 30 second (full) mark. Long store short used the 3.5 hour setting 5 TIMES AND FINALLY registered the 30 second (full). Watch was made August 2014 according to the serial number. Watch was fully discharged when I got it. Was afraid I'd have to get a new battery. Keeping fingers crossed battery holds the full charge and no rapid discharge. Someone may be able to get the Dakota Charger to work, but I couldn't figure out the correct positioning on the charger. 

Just wanted to update everyone.


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## Charlieaa (Jan 28, 2016)

Charlieaa said:


> The Dakota Charger I couldn't get to charge , so bit the bullet and bought the official Seiko charger. Set the charger for 3.5 hours and positioned the watch per the stem direction of the specific movement. Got to 10 second mark I though it would go to the 30 second (full) mark. Long store short used the 3.5 hour setting 5 TIMES AND FINALLY registered the 30 second (full). Watch was made August 2014 according to the serial number. Watch was fully discharged when I got it. Was afraid I'd have to get a new battery. Keeping fingers crossed battery holds the full charge and no rapid discharge. Someone may be able to get the Dakota Charger to work, but I couldn't figure out the correct positioning on the charger.
> 
> Just wanted to update everyone.


Movement for the watch was (is) 5M


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## jhanna1701 (Jan 13, 2015)

drainaps said:


> Can someone please post a couple of pics on how to use the Philips tealight charger? Ideally with a SUN 019 and estimated charge time?
> 
> I I bought the tealights a few months back, and tried once to charge the SUN 019 (face forward, 6 o'clock down) and the charge needle didn't move noticeably after 24 hours so I moved on? (and yes I did push the red charge button before you guys ask ☺).
> 
> By the way I agree it makes a terrific dual technology gadget. My wife loves those lights. I think it's the first time ever one of my watch gadgets gets such a high approval rate from her?


Think there was a picture of that a couple pages back.


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## drainaps (Nov 8, 2012)

jhanna1701 said:


> Think there was a picture of that a couple pages back.


Thanks for your answer.

There was, but I'd appreciate a few more insights into the whole operation? And an estimated charge time? Thanks all for help.


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## gizzzmo (Aug 29, 2008)

petr_cha said:


> Do you mean philips candle lights (sold with induction charger) ? I can see them in my local web shop for cca 40 bucks, so I going to test it..
> 
> At least I can say it is a gift for my wife
> 
> View attachment 6964682


Exact the same I told my wife after ordering via amazon...



drainaps said:


> Thanks for your answer.
> 
> There was, but I'd appreciate a few more insights into the whole operation? And an estimated charge time? Thanks all for help.


Here you are.










This is the whole thing  my SUN023P1 took 10 hours (the charger has a built-in 10h timer) in this 12up-6down position to switch from nearly empty (second hand shows eol ticking every 2 seconds) to a full charge. The indicator on my Seiko now shows 30 seconds.

As for insights: put the watch in, check regularly with the indicator button, pull it out when full. The Seiko can`t be overcharged, so there is plenty room for try&error.

@Z5 compact


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## lewie (Jun 2, 2013)

gizzzmo said:


> Exact the same I told my wife after ordering via amazon...
> 
> Here you are.
> 
> ...


Thanks - same charger I have - I'll be trying it on a Ceasar- currently at 30 mins


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## petr_cha (Jun 15, 2011)

Finally my kids run away with candles and it is my time to test charging of my kinetic Black Knight


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## Wovoka (Jun 13, 2014)

_"I also have a sonicare toothbrush charger but haven't figured out how to use it to charge the BFK."_

Response: "Don't know if anyone has offered EMR readings of the various devices - I only scrolled thru these many, many pages of dialog - but thought I'd provide some info regarding three toothbrush chargers, since these devices are just about the cheapest way to charge your kinetic.

Regarding my previous post on toothbrush chargers for Seiko kinetics - I'd forgotten which hoops to jump thru in order to show you the picture! This time, in an attempt to rectify this, I inadvertently deleted most of my text.
My bad; will get back this when I find the time...

Alan

View attachment 7115482


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## viper699 (Feb 27, 2016)

Derek N said:


> Sure Pete, I have the winder set for 900 TPD and bi-rotational spin. I figure that that should be enough of a spin throughout the day to keep it charged fully. I do rotate it out of the winder with other watches, so it does not sit in there 24/7. And it has kept the 6 month charge without any problems.


What model is your winder? I don't see anything like your winder on their site, and thus the question begs if the other models would even work? While not cheaper, the Wold Winder is cheaper than the crazy price of the Seiko induction unit.

Any help much appreciated.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

gizzzmo said:


> Exact the same I told my wife after ordering via amazon... Here you are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I picked up the same thing. Got one as open box for $35 shipped. It's actually nice. I like these "electronic candles". Has nice mood lighting. I just wish the "flame flicker" was a little more random and with longer stretches of being smooth (which is more natural).

Anyway, it does appear to charge the watch pretty well. It may pull more power to do it than the toothbrush charger, but it's so much more convenient.


----------



## lewie (Jun 2, 2013)

Going to try this in the candle charger- ins a 5M23 - any ideas on dial position?


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

Hi Lewie. As far as I can tell, all 5Mxx series can be charged using the same orientation. So just try it with 12 up with the face vertical like you see in most of the pics that show the candle chargers. Let us know how you get on.


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## lewie (Jun 2, 2013)

Pete_JBK said:


> Hi Lewie. As far as I can tell, all 5Mxx series can be charged using the same orientation. So just try it with 12 up with the face vertical like you see in most of the pics that show the candle chargers. Let us know how you get on.


thanks - will do


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## lewie (Jun 2, 2013)

Pete_JBK said:


> Hi Lewie. As far as I can tell, all 5Mxx series can be charged using the same orientation. So just try it with 12 up with the face vertical like you see in most of the pics that show the candle chargers. Let us know how you get on.


thanks - will do


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## lewie (Jun 2, 2013)

I've had this on charge since last night(reset the button on the charger 3 times) it's up to 20mins at the moment - gonna keep going


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

Lets hope it holds that charge for you.


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## lewie (Jun 2, 2013)

Pete_JBK said:


> Lets hope it holds that charge for you.


I'm now at 30 mins 😄


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## rokai2007 (Apr 9, 2013)

I never had it charged to 30 minutes scale, no matter how long the charging was. But recently I left my watch stopped running then the charger brought it to 30 minutes scale after two days charging.


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## viper699 (Feb 27, 2016)

please delete this post mods.


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## viper699 (Feb 27, 2016)

Wovoka said:


> _"I also have a sonicare toothbrush charger but haven't figured out how to use it to charge the BFK."_
> 
> Response: "Don't know if anyone has offered EMR readings of the various devices - I only scrolled thru these many, many pages of dialog - but thought I'd provide some info regarding three toothbrush chargers, since these devices are just about the cheapest way to charge your kinetic.
> 
> ...


I'd be interested in seeing the results of your testing.


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## darmok (Oct 11, 2015)

Can anyone report where the charging coils are located on the 5M85? I have been trying to use the Dakota charger and it worked well once, but I've been unable to repeat the positioning just right. Thank you!


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## sirgilbert357 (Mar 21, 2012)

You guys know about this, right? Its a Seiko Kinetic Induction Charger:

SEIKO KINETIC ENERGY SUPPLIER YT02A - seiyajapan.com

Cool little pic on it shows you how to position the watch's crown to get the most efficient charge...


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## MacTruck (May 1, 2007)

sirgilbert357 said:


> You guys know about this, right? Its a Seiko Kinetic Induction Charger:
> 
> SEIKO KINETIC ENERGY SUPPLIER YT02A â€" seiyajapan.com
> 
> Cool little pic on it shows you how to position the watch's crown to get the most efficient charge...


Yeah, we also know about the price tag. UGH!

I bought one on Amazon for $269. Figured I would keep it by my bedside and drop my kinetic on it once and a while but it emits a terrible buzzing sound and its LOUD. I sent it back and got the Phillips lights. Works not as good but good enough.


----------



## sirgilbert357 (Mar 21, 2012)

MacTruck said:


> Yeah, we also know about the price tag. UGH!
> 
> I bought one on Amazon for $269. Figured I would keep it by my bedside and drop my kinetic on it once and a while but it emits a terrible buzzing sound and its LOUD. I sent it back and got the Phillips lights. Works not as good but good enough.


Yeah, it is pretty expensive...that's weird about the sound! I would have thought they should be silent.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

sirgilbert357 said:


> Yeah, it is pretty expensive...that's weird about the sound! I would have thought they should be silent.


I've had one for years. I wouldn't say it's loud, but there is a high pitched noise from it.

If I have it running whilst I sleep, because it's not next to my bed, I don't notice it - with mine you have to be quite close, with no ambient noise to hear it


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## viper699 (Feb 27, 2016)

sirgilbert357 said:


> You guys know about this, right? Its a Seiko Kinetic Induction Charger:
> 
> Cool little pic on it shows you how to position the watch's crown to get the most efficient charge...


Indeed we do. It costs more than the watch from some vendors. The price is obscene. I'll stick with my 9$ Braun toothbrush base for now.


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## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

Pete_JBK said:


> Philips 818655 Imageo CandleLight ... showing on Amazon right now.


Not listed on UK amazon.

Has anyone tried Phillips imageo candles Item model number 69108/60/PU ?

thanks 
Martin


----------



## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

viper699 said:


> Indeed we do. It costs more than the watch from some vendors. The price is obscene. I'll stick with my 9$ Braun toothbrush base for now.


I think there's been a lot of opportunism in the pricing of the Seiko YT02A.

I suspect I've had mine about 10 years, now, and I bought it mail order, brand new, from jewelry supply company for £36 (UK pounds).


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## viper699 (Feb 27, 2016)

Wongsky said:


> I think there's been a lot of opportunism in the pricing of the Seiko YT02A.
> 
> I suspect I've had mine about 10 years, now, and I bought it mail order, brand new, from jewelry supply company for £36 (UK pounds).


Agreed, just typical greed.


----------



## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

trott3r said:


> Not listed on UK amazon.
> 
> Has anyone tried Phillips imageo candles Item model number 69108/60/PU ?
> 
> ...


Not sure what model that is, but I have been using the Philips 69126/60/48 Imageo Led Rechargeable Tea Lights set's charger base with good success - I have the SUN017 Cal 5M85.

It will not work with my SRG013P1 Cal 5D22 so I use an old 45rpm record player to keep that one charged.


----------



## steve_ostin (Jun 1, 2015)

1998 pippin change the capacitor


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## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

How about the idea behind this one?

Kinetic Watch Charger - Black or White. Suitable for CHARGING Seiko Kinetics | eBay

They claim it spins faster than a normal automatic winder and so powers up the kinetic.


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## petr_cha (Jun 15, 2011)

Philips candle charger can charge up to 3 watches....that kinetic winder only one piece..


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## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

petr_cha said:


> Philips candle charger can charge up to 3 watches....that kinetic winder only one piece..


True although i dont know how fast either methods are.


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## petr_cha (Jun 15, 2011)

Speed of charging is probably not so important... I charged my kinetic once... And now it will run for several month.... I hope I will be able to locate my charger in that time in my home mess...  For somethig to be used rarely I would appreciate small size and Philips charger can be easily put in a drawer...


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## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

Fair point petr


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

trott3r said:


> True although i dont know how fast either methods are.


The official charger (YT02A) has a switch on the side, 3.5 hours or 30 minutes. 3.5 hours should be fully charged.


----------



## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

Wongsky said:


> The official charger (YT02A) has a switch on the side, 3.5 hours or 30 minutes. 3.5 hours should be fully charged.


I was thinking more about the times of the rotating charger and the toothbrush.


----------



## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

Had success overnight with another braun toothbrush charger the braun(oral b) triumph which has a hole rather than the stick of the newer chargers. The trumph is an old model. >4years

Maybe people can pick one up off ebay, car boot sales or have one in the storage.









It fitted better with the crown and button facing the front of the charger.
I gave it 12hrs over night before i checked it but there may be up to another 3 hours with playing around with positions etc.
The power level went up from the 20seconds marker to 30 seconds.
I received the watch a few days ago at the 20 seconds mark and so I have no idea how close it was to the 30secs level.

As other people have reported the watch is above room temperature and warm but not hot.

Notice the bracelet was still attached but it works nevertheless


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## darmok (Oct 11, 2015)

Well I finally had to break down and get the expensive Seiko charger. I have the SUN019 with the 5M85 movement. After reading this thread I bought the Dakota charger. That didn't work. Then I finally gave up and bought the $59 Philips Imageo candles. That doesn't work either. So after spending about $100 on solutions that are useless I finally got the Seiko charger. I hope at least that one works!


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## lewie (Jun 2, 2013)

Just to add I have a big boss - in the tea light charger, 12 up - charges a treat - now up to 30 mins


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## darmok (Oct 11, 2015)

darmok said:


> Well I finally had to break down and get the expensive Seiko charger. I have the SUN019 with the 5M85 movement. After reading this thread I bought the Dakota charger. That didn't work. Then I finally gave up and bought the $59 Philips Imageo candles. That doesn't work either. So after spending about $100 on solutions that are useless I finally got the Seiko charger. I hope at least that one works!


Just to follow up - The Seiko charger arrived and charged my new 5m85. But it turns out the problem is the watch, not the Dakota or Phillips charger. After 3 hours on the Seiko charger, the watch is up to 20 seconds, but after a few hours it's back to 5 seconds.


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## Wongsky (Jan 19, 2012)

darmok said:


> Just to follow up - The Seiko charger arrived and charged my new 5m85. But it turns out the problem is the watch, not the Dakota or Phillips charger. After 3 hours on the Seiko charger, the watch is up to 20 seconds, but after a few hours it's back to 5 seconds.


Does the 5M85 movement use a capacitor, as stock? If so / either way - may need replacing with a new cell.

I have 4 or 5 Kinetics, so far only one hasn't needed the capacitor replacing (a Kinetic with the 5M63 movement), the rest I've installed the new Li-Ion cell.


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## darmok (Oct 11, 2015)

Well my SUN019 is a brand new watch which in the manual says it can hold a charge up to six months. My understanding is that the older capacitor devices would not last that long so I assume it's the new Lithium Ion technology. I think I also saw somewhere that Seiko is now only using the L-I cells and no longer uses the capacitors. Thank you for your post.


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## kit7 (Mar 25, 2015)

My BFK has been getting less wrist time lately. This morning I checked it and it was down to 20 seconds, so I strapped it on to the jack russell's collar and _viola_ after an hour it's back up to 30 seconds.


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## GG Killshock (Aug 29, 2007)

kit7 said:


> My BFK has been getting less wrist time lately. This morning I checked it and it was down to 20 seconds, so I strapped it on to the jack russell's collar and _viola_ after an hour it's back up to 30 seconds.


NICE! _and_ environmentally conscious. I need to get a Jack Russell charger! |>


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## AussieMc (Jun 27, 2016)

Bought a Dakota charger for my Seiko Kinetic SKA-667 (5M82) and after playing around with positions I found that if I tilted it towards the 2 O'clock mark to move the oscillating weight to expose the coils the watch would charge if it was placed slightly forward on the charger. My watch started at 5min mark worth of charge, after 15 min on the Dakota charger it was up to 10min indication of charge and after leaving it on charger overnight it is now fully charged. After one week it still indicates 30min mark worth of charge. Hope this helps


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

AussieMc said:


> Bought a Dakota charger for my Seiko Kinetic SKA-667 (5M82) and after playing around with positions I found that if I tilted it towards the 2 O'clock mark to move the oscillating weight to expose the coils the watch would charge if it was placed slightly forward on the charger. My watch started at 5min mark worth of charge, after 15 min on the Dakota charger it was up to 10min indication of charge and after leaving it on charger overnight it is now fully charged. After one week it still indicates 30min mark worth of charge. Hope this helps


Nice watch too!!


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## Wovoka (Jun 13, 2014)

Hi - been traveling too much (but enjoying it), wanted to finally add to my months old comment regarding use of toothbrush chargers on Kinetic watches.
Flux meter shows almost 10 milligauss about 8 inches from the chargers - but it's actually reading EMR from the central unit!
This is a MUCH more powerful charger than the other two, which only emit an equal amount within a an inch of their bases.
I laid a seiko with a state-of-charge indicator across the right-hand unit, and it went from half to full overnight.
I'd be careful about using the more powerful unit because there's always the possibility of internal damage.
In which case, I suggest you place your watch 8 inches away to start, time the charge, then move in.
This device might be ideal for charging several Kinetics at the same time?


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## bumticker (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm grateful to those on this thread who figured out that the Philips Imageo chargers can work to charge my kinetic. So I'm glad to add a report that their model 69110/60/48 (this one: https://www.amazon.com/Philips-69110-60-48-Rechargeable/dp/B0045Y1G5U) works really well also. It took a few days to get the watch to a six-month charge, but now keeps it there very well. I situate the watch so that the 6 o'clock side of the dial is as close as possible to the induction coil in the base.

I think this is the same base as that of model 69116/55/48 (this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003Z6PU7Y), which is more available still.


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## Gerard Jones (Feb 27, 2015)

So, after reading this and other Kinetic charging threads, I bought a Philips Imageo dock off eBay for five quid. The charger didn't work, though. And it turns out the switching charger lead is no longer available commercially. I emailed Philips asking what I could do and they basically said I didn't need to do anything, as they would send me a lead foc.

Stunned. You don't get service like that very often. Hats off to Philips.

You'd not get that response from Seiko, I fear.


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## Gerard Jones (Feb 27, 2015)

Double post strikes again.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

Gerard Jones said:


> So, after reading this and other Kinetic charging threads, I bought a Philips Imageo dock off eBay for five quid. The charger didn't work, though. And it turns out the switching charger lead is no longer available commercially. I emailed Philips asking what I could do and they basically said I didn't need to do anything, as they would send me a lead foc.
> 
> Stunned. You don't get service like that very often. Hats off to Philips.
> 
> You'd not get that response from Seiko, I fear.


Excellent service from Phillips. Those Philips Imageo Charging docks do work well. So easy to put your watch into. Happy charging!!


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## Gerard Jones (Feb 27, 2015)

Right, Philips Imageo owners, has anyone tried charging performance with watch placed face into charger, or face up? People are suggesting 12 o'clock up... Why is this, and is this best for all Kinetic Seiko's?


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## fapope (Jul 29, 2016)

Gerard Jones said:


> Right, Philips Imageo owners, has anyone tried charging performance with watch placed face into charger, or face up? People are suggesting 12 o'clock up... Why is this, and is this best for all Kinetic Seiko's?


From fapope (Australia) I am surprised this thread has gone on for so long. The answer to charging the Kinetic is really quite cheap and simple. Use you toothbrush induction charger this way. Unscrew the back of the watch and place this open side against the raised section of you induction charger. Try to place the the battery/capacitor (It should be that small copper coloured circle in the mechanism) as close as possible to the raised section of the charger. I need to leave mine like this overnight to get the 20 sec charge showing. Works every time.


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## flyersandeagles (Oct 24, 2010)

Hey, I wanted to drop this info in all the threads I could find about charging Seiko Kinetic watches. This Phillips LED rechargeable candle option is tried and true, and I just got mine for $41 shipped on eBay. Best price I have ever seen. Couldn't get the link to paste here from my phone, but it's Wayfair selling it, and the item # is 142090879838.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## flyersandeagles (Oct 24, 2010)

Ok, I purchased the Phillips LED candle from Wayfair - got a good deal - about $42. The candles themselves are really cool, by the way. However mine is different than all the ones you guys have. It only has 2 candles - not 3. And I'm seeing that the base "holes" are not as deep as the base "holes" of the 3-candle charger. This makes it harder to get the watch to stay upright against the coil...



Anyone have experience with this particular base? And do I have the watch positioned correctly? I've had the watch on there for about 24 hrs, and the charge has not increased yet (i realize it could take days). I started with a "20 second" charge. Also, does it charge faster if you take the bracelet off? The watch in pic is a BFK Yellow Submarine. Thanks in advance for your help.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## AirWatch (Jan 15, 2008)

^ Yes, I have those big, color Imageos as well as the small candle lights. Unlike the small ones, which work with next to no fuss (just put the watches in face and 6 o'clock down and push the switch on) I couldn't get the big charger to work at all, regardless of positioning options. I have a feeling the circle is just too big for the watch to make adequate contact for a charge.


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## flyersandeagles (Oct 24, 2010)

^^ ugh, that sucks. But thanks for the info. I'll keep trying, and post if I'm successful.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## AirWatch (Jan 15, 2008)

flyersandeagles said:


> ^^ ugh, that sucks. But thanks for the info. I'll keep trying, and post if I'm successful.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


Yeah, that'll be great. If you did find a way of making it work, it'll make nannying of my four Kinetics far easier. No more rotating 'em in the 3 slots of the candle light base.


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## flyersandeagles (Oct 24, 2010)

Is there any way to know that your kinetic is in fact charging on the Phillips base, other than a possible increase in temp of the watch? I also don't like that there's a button you have to push to initiate charge. Apparently this thing shuts off after a certain amount of time? I can't believe this thing didn't come with instructions other than a pictorial "how to" for placing the candles on the base and pushing the button. Bizarre.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## AirWatch (Jan 15, 2008)

The tea light 3-set charger stays on for 12 hours at the push of the indicator light. I haven't timed the mood light 2-set, but it's probably the same. The difference is a fully charged tea light has a 24hr power reserve, whereas the bigger mood lights last 10 hours per charge.

The best way to tell whether the watch is charging is just to check the power reserve indicator. If your watch is currently on 20sec mark, it'll get up to 30sec within just a few hours, say, 1-3.


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

I had the $$$ Seiko induction charger, which I sold. Philips tea light works fine and is less fussy. Neither lets you know your kinetic is actually charging. Press the power level button on the kinetic you'll find out.


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

Well if anyone in Europe is up for a cheap Imageo there's a seller in Germany who's running a sale of kits with faulty candles (their batteries are dead) but the chargers work just fine (got one myself). Item number 201372478883, he accepted an offer from me for 5.20 euros (although shipping was expensive and ended up at 22 euros total.


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## chippe1 (Jul 23, 2016)

I have a Seiko ska623 and have not been able to get the tooth brush charger to work in any position any thoughts on whats the better charger Phillip's or Dakoda watch charger? I do not want to waste any more money on something that doesn't work.
I would appreciate any help in deciding.


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## maspadaro (Oct 9, 2016)

Ok I have a Arctuta 7L22 and I started to charge it with the oral B Braun toothbrush smart charger #3731 for triumph model 9000 series. It seems to charge it at least it gets it warm. Since the watch is warmer than the actual charger I can only assume it's working. Now the reason I got this one is because of the output. The seiko induction charger output is 4.5w this one is 2.4 it's the highest one I have found in toothbrushes chargers. The tea light I am not sure the output. Maybe someone can tell us. My only issue is that I like to use this watch so it's hard to test how much charge it's giving. Will update after a week of not using it. It will be this Friday coming up. 
******Update: its been a week since I wore the watch and it still working with no double skip. Will wear it limited until next week and if the battery holds without any problem then success.. I don't need to get the YT02A charger. and will do a full charge. I only charged it for 4 hours originally after a wore it for 2 days, Since it had no charge when I received it. I will take a picture of how I charging this weekend.
Regards
maspadaro


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## ursamajor (Sep 18, 2016)

I own two Kinetics: an old SKJ001 (having inside a 5M43 calibre) and a newer SKA475 (with 5M62). Tested them with my new inductive charger from a local brand called E-Boda, having input 5V/2A and output 5V/1A. The old SKJ001 works great with the charger, but unfortunatelly the newer SKA475 don't.  I expected that the massive case of the diver act like a shield, but the bad surprise came from the "finer" watch.
See video bellow:


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Try setting your SKA475 on its side when you set it on the induction charger (flip both sides). 
Or unpin the bracelet and set it on its caseback instead ??


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## ursamajor (Sep 18, 2016)

Don't work, I tried all positions. Put it also on its edge and nothing.


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

That's weird. The charging for various Kinetic movement models should vary only based on the orientation of the induction coil. Their basic designs are the same.


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## ursamajor (Sep 18, 2016)

Yes, weird indeed. That's why I wanted to show you to see it by your own eyes. 
Anyway, as far as I tested positions with my toothbrush's Braun induction charger, the better position is dial-down and placed between 7 and 9.
For the newer Kinetic I'll use the old style way::-d


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## maspadaro (Oct 9, 2016)

Morning ursamajor. You also tried from the back but having the band unbuckled correct? Try off center. I don't know the internal position of the actual receiver coil on the new ones I have a 7L22 and it worked fine but I put it face upwards. I wonder if the see through base helps. So does any one know why you needed to set the watch to the exact position on the YT02? It doesn't make sense to me because the transmitter coils is circular, usually flat against the flat surface, unless the YT02 was not and therefor you needed to adjust it so both transmitter and receiver coils were close to each other. has anyone ever opened the YT02? ***** another question ursamajor is that a QI induction charger? regards,


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## ursamajor (Sep 18, 2016)

Don't work in any position.
See here> Incarcator Wireless Qi universal WICQ 100, alb


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## maspadaro (Oct 9, 2016)

Ohh its a QI induction plate. I thought QI didn't work with Seiko Kinetics. Surprise that the older watch did turn it on, now does it charge it. Now there are a few question which I sadly cant answer which QI induction is one of them. The caliber charge at different rate I believe its obvious since one lasts a week and the other 6 months. maybe the distance between the coils is the issue and a closer one might not be the answer. I think that is why the YT02A had specific position for each one. the distance from the trans/receiver coiled differ at different position. I assume the induction plate runs at 50-60 hertz right? I could not find the technical data for the one you got. there has to be an electrical geek on this forum to fully explain it. LOL


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## ursamajor (Sep 18, 2016)

maspadaro said:


> The caliber charge at different rate I believe its obvious since one lasts a week and the other 6 months. maybe the distance between the coils is the issue and a closer one might not be the answer. I think that is why the YT02A had specific position for each one. the distance from the trans/receiver coiled differ at different position. I assume the induction plate runs at 50-60 hertz right?


Both movements use rechargeable batteries (the older watch too, capacitor replaced), both last months, not days. Now, interesting observation: it's likely that charging units to be different in these two kinetic movements. Anyway, I'm very sad that 5M62 can't be charged by induction charger. Tried already with Braun toothbrush charger and don't work. 
I suppose the charger works at 50 Hz.


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

ursamajor said:


> Both movements use rechargeable batteries (the older watch too, capacitor replaced), both last months, not days. Now, interesting observation: it's likely that charging units to be different in these two kinetic movements. Anyway, I'm very sad that 5M62 can't be charged by induction charger. Tried already with Braun toothbrush charger and don't work.
> I suppose the charger works at 50 Hz.


I've charged my BFK with a 5M62 w/o any issues with the Philips Imageo. Same with the 5M63 and 5M65.


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## ursamajor (Sep 18, 2016)

The price of that device here (I mean Philips Imageo) is almost the price I paid for the kinetic. So, better another kinetic than a charger.


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

ursamajor said:


> The price of that device here (I mean Philips Imageo) is almost the price I paid for the kinetic. So, better another kinetic than a charger.


There's a few examples in eBay for cheap. You don't need the candles just the charger. A seller in Germany was selling refurbished units whose candles didn't work for 5 euros. Kept the charger threw the candles away.


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## ursamajor (Sep 18, 2016)

Interesting, can you give some links. Thanks.


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

The Imageo plate definitely works on the older 5J22. 

Mine was on "sleep" mode when I brought it onto the charging plate, it ' woke ' up meaning it received a charge via its induction coil without me even giving the watch a big shake which is normally what's required.


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Pete_JBK said:


> Not sure what model that is, but I have been using the Philips 69126/60/48 Imageo Led Rechargeable Tea Lights set's charger base with good success - I have the SUN017 Cal 5M85.


Hi Pete, would like to know you did you orient your watch on the Imageo charge base for your watch?

Much appreciated.


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## Worker (Nov 25, 2009)

Do you guys think the Philips 69126/60/48 Imageo would work on the Sun019?


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

The SUN019 uses the exact same movement as the SUN017, which is why I asked Pete_JBK about his success with the Philips IMAGEO charging plate.


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## maspadaro (Oct 9, 2016)

To ursamajor: OK I pulled an old list of calibers and below shows how long they last. I cannot imagine they would have updated the innards and kept the caliber number. Did you have your newer watch services or battery (rechargeable) changed? 
5M42, 5M43, 5M45
Capacitor
168 hours (1 week)
Power reserve indicator
Discontinued
5M62, 5M63, 5M65
LiOn cell
6 months
Power reserve indicator
In production


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## ursamajor (Sep 18, 2016)

5M43 works with rechargeable battery too. Originally it was a capacitor, then Sony switched to rechargeable. Both calibers (5M43 and 5M62) use same battery type TC920S: Maxell TC920S SL920 Capacitor Set f/ Seiko Kinetic 5M42 5M43 5M45 5M62 5M63 5M65 | eBay
Cant understand what you want to know about new watch; my newer caliber wasn't serviced, nor battery changed: the watch is brand new.


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## jhanna1701 (Jan 13, 2015)

Hey guys, I'm in no way affiliated with this auction, but I do see a Seiko Kinetic charger among the items listed here. Currently sitting at $90.

http://www............com/auction-l...ite-watch-mains_3334F6CAFD/#fbCarouselContent

Jamie


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Philips Imageo 69116/55/48 (2 base charger plate) confirm works for the following: 

i) 5J22 : Watch with strap placed crown up with watch face hugging rim of the charging cavity

ii) 5M85: Watch without strap placed upright 12 o-clock up with case back hugging the rim of the charging cavity. Case back being at a slight angle ( about 15~20 degrees ) leaning outwards and overhanging from the rim. 
8 hours in this position brought charge levels from 5s to 10s marks.

Shall post photos when I can.


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## Iandk (Mar 26, 2016)

Charging position in a Philips 3-candle Imageo, 5M63 movement.










Admittedly have not tested to see if other positions are more efficient, but this one seems to work quite well.


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Haha... I use Bluetac to hold my watches in position too!


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

maxxevv said:


> Hi Pete, would like to know you did you orient your watch on the Imageo charge base for your watch?
> 
> Much appreciated.


G'day maxxevv ... sorry for the delay ... I've been busy with other stuff ... I put my SUN017 in the Philips charger just like you see in Iandk's photo ... but I don't use 'blu-tack' ... my watch just sits nicely on its own ...


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Hi Pete,

its alright, figured it out after some experimentation.

Here's how my set up looks like. Left for the 5M85 and right for the 5J22.

Charging for the setup with the 5M85 is really slow, took 8 hours to get up from 5s to 10s mark, but it dropped back onto the 5s mark within a day. Its now about 24hrs in this position now and its not yet progressed onto the 20s mark. Will probably try setting the watch dead center in the cavity to see how it fares doing that instead.


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

ursamajor said:


> Interesting, can you give some links. Thanks.


Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.de/itm/201698729866


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

maxxevv said:


> Hi Pete,
> 
> its alright, figured it out after some experimentation.
> 
> ...


I think this particular model doesn't work as well as the one with three charging pits . But my SUN023 also took awhile to charge up as I recall.


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Yes, the cavity is much bigger and the power rating is the same. I assume the flux density will be much lower too, hence less efficient compared to the smaller cavity, 3 charging pit one. 

Do you recall how long it took you to bring your watch to full charge ??


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

maxxevv said:


> Yes, the cavity is much bigger and the power rating is the same. I assume the flux density will be much lower too, hence less efficient compared to the smaller cavity, 3 charging pit one.
> 
> Do you recall how long it took you to bring your watch to full charge ??


I remember it took awhile the first time, like ~6 charging cycles but got easier from there on, recharging I mean. Battery needed a burn-in I suppose.


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Thanks George, 

will let the watch charge for the rest of the week and see how far it goes in terms of charge levels.


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

maxxevv said:


> Hi Pete,
> 
> its alright, figured it out after some experimentation.
> 
> ...


3 days of charging finally brought the charge level to 20s.


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

maxxevv said:


> 3 days of charging finally brought the charge level to 20s.


For those who may be interested.










With an additional ~3 days of charging( there were 1 or 2 lapses in between as there is a 12hr cycle that needs to be reset for charging to continue), the power reserve on the watch is now 30s and holding.

That makes a total of approximately 7~8 days of setting up the watch in the position and leaving it to charge on the Philips Imageo 69116/55/48 (2 base charger plate)  to bring the power reserve charge levels from 5s to 30s.

~24 hours from 5s to 10s 
~72 hours from 10s to 20s 
~72-96 hours from 20s to 30s.

Hope these will come in useful for those who need a reference in the future.


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## Gary622 (Jan 27, 2014)

Has anyone tried using an Apple watch charger on a Seiko Kinetic? I'm trying it now. I'll let you know what happens, assuming I don't burn my house down.


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

Gary622 said:


> Has anyone tried using an Apple watch charger on a Seiko Kinetic? I'm trying it now. I'll let you know what happens, assuming I don't burn my house down.


Cell phone chargers don't work bud, no need setting your house on fire


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

As a new owner of a BFK, I read through the entire 37 pages of this thread. Two things became obvious, first that keeping kinetic watches charged is a real issue to many, and second that owners think highly enough of these watches to try to come up with alternative ways to keep them charged.

There have been so many great suggestions from toothbrush and tea light chargers to record players and something as simple as wearing the watch on their weekly run. I was also fascinated by the workaround for using an automatic watch winder. I've also come up with a couple of ideas but have yet to create or test them. One is securing the watch to a ceiling fan and turning it on. Another is creating a pendulum to swing the watch back and forth in a manner similar to your arm swing while walking. Here is a rough diagram.









Another method I tried was securing the watch to the handles on an elliptical while working out. I'm sure this works but have had limited trials and am not sure how useful this is for those who don't exercise regularly.

Tonight I discovered a very effective tool to charge my kinetic. Best of all I already had one in my kitchen. My Kitchenaid mixer!









The he set up is easy. Just insert it to the neck of the mixing attachment and then secure the attachment to the mixer, lower it into the bowl and start. I brought it up to the 4 power setting and let it run for about 5 minutes. It went from 20 to 30 seconds. I will continue testing this method and report additional findings.


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

Thought of that one but the rotation speed is too fast. Might cause premature wear on the rotor. Would be more comfortable with the turntable solution.


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

It is a variable setting. The number 4 setting is a bit aggressive, but 3 doesn't appear to be at all. I plan on checking it out to see how long it takes on 3. It may wind up being just as fast with less potential for damage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

Really, the Phillips tea lights work so well at ~$40. I had the pricey Seiko charger ($240 now!) and I found it less convenient than the tea lights, which charge slower but make positioning them so easy in their cubbyholes, something you do maybe once every 4 months. The tea lights charger brings kinetics close or at par with solar in convenience, something we didn't have before tea lights, plus your wife can have flickering romantic light during a blackout.


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

Sean779 said:


> Really, the Phillips tea lights work so well at ~$40. I had the pricey Seiko charger ($240 now!) and I found it less convenient than the tea lights, which charge slower but make positioning them so easy in their cubbyholes, something you do maybe once every 4 months. The tea lights charger brings kinetics close or at par with solar in convenience, something we didn't have before tea lights, plus your wife can have flickering romantic light during a blackout.


I get the induction thing, from all I've read on this thread it seems a great option to the pricey Seiko charger. Was just looking at alternatives other than induction that may be quicker and use the charging mechanisms originally incorporated into the watch, i.e. motion.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

Victor Cruz said:


> I get the induction thing, from all I've read on this thread it seems a great option to the pricey Seiko charger. Was just looking at alternatives other than induction that may be quicker and use the charging mechanisms originally incorporated into the watch, i.e. motion.


I'll be interested to see what you come up with.


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## Iandk (Mar 26, 2016)

Motion will work of course, but as the watch ages and oils dry out, the amount of electrical power generated from a given amount of motion will decrease due to the increased friction (as I've discovered with my decade-old kinetic, which still holds a respectable amont of charge, but I have to use the induction charger to get it there since it doesn't get enough from the usual wear rotation anymore... really due for a service).

Using the induction charger will also reduce the amount of wear and tear on the mechanical parts as well.

(Have the Phillips candles charger here too)


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

Iandk said:


> Motion will work of course, but as the watch ages and oils dry out, the amount of electrical power generated from a given amount of motion will decrease due to the increased friction (as I've discovered with my decade-old kinetic, which still holds a respectable amont of charge, but I have to use the induction charger to get it there since it doesn't get enough from the usual wear rotation anymore... really due for a service).
> 
> Using the induction charger will also reduce the amount of wear and tear on the mechanical parts as well.
> 
> (Have the Phillips candles charger here too)


The mechanical wear and tear would certainly appear to be an issue and I'm not sure what the recommended maintenance on these watches is. Don't think I read anything in the manual about it.

Seems strange however that a mechanism developed to be charged in a certain manner would be better charged in a manner it was not initially designed for. Bottom line, if it works, it works. Would be really interested to see what the long term drawbacks and benefits are for either method.

Induction seems intriguing. I want to check another readily available option in my home. I have the very inexpensive watch winders (star 5) that are stackable and powered by induction transmitted from the unit plugged in to the outlet to other units either on top of or to the side of the other units. Wonder if placing the kinetic above the plugged in unit would work charge.

One of the problems I see in reading though this thread is that there is no way to really know the level of charge at 30 seconds. According to my manual, the 30 second marker indicates a charge of anything from 4 to 6 months. Since the 20 second marker indicates approximately 1 month remaking, when does the indication jump from 20 to 30 second, or vice versa? In other words, do you have 4 months or 6 months at 30 seconds. And do you have 1 month or 3 months and 29 days at 20 seconds?

Although my watch is currently registering at 30 seconds, I want to keep using and charging it further to ensure it actually is at full charge, not just the bottom level of the 30 second range.

Does anyone know if there is a way to use a multi-tester to determine full charge?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Iandk (Mar 26, 2016)

Victor Cruz said:


> The mechanical wear and tear would certainly appear to be an issue and I'm not sure what the recommended maintenance on these watches is. Don't think I read anything in the manual about it.
> 
> Seems strange however that a mechanism developed to be charged in a certain manner would be better charged in a manner it was not initially designed for. Bottom line, if it works, it works. Would be really interested to see what the long term drawbacks and benefits are for either method.


Well, when it was new, it didn't take much wear to keep it completely topped up. After 10 years though, it's not quite enough, even though the battery still holds an okay charge (~3 weeks). 

I don't remember anything in the manual either, but like mechanicals, it'd be a matter of disassembly and oiling all the moving parts properly, changing out the battery for a fresh one, and likely making sure the electronics are functioning properly.

(Either that, or swap in a new movement, considering what the costs might be. )


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

I've not been able to keep my 3 kinetics in the 30 sec. zone for more than a couple weeks. They will however stay in the 20 sec. zone for 2-4 months. Still approx. 6 month charge, with bulk of it in 20 sec. zone.


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

Sean779 said:


> I've not been able to keep my 3 kinetics in the 30 sec. zone for more than a couple weeks. They will however stay in the 20 sec. zone for 2-4 months. Still approx. 6 month charge, with bulk of it in 20 sec. zone.


Thanks Sean. That would seem to indicate that 30 seconds only indicates a full charge. Anything under full charge minus a few weeks would register at 20 seconds. So 20 seconds indicates AT LEAST 1 month, or thereabouts.

I know this kind of defeats the purpose of a quartz watch, but have you experimented keeping the crown out and seeing how long the battery holds a full charge when not in use?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

Victor Cruz said:


> I know this kind of defeats the purpose of a quartz watch, but have you experimented keeping the crown out and seeing how long the battery holds a full charge when not in use?


No, haven't tried that.


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## bugeyed (May 4, 2007)

I am using an old style Sharper Image watch winder with my SUN023 & it got the reserve up to 6 months very quickly. It's the winder that rocks the watch back & forth. My initial concern was if the rocking was fast enough to charge the watch. When I put the watch in the winder the reserve was at 20 sec (1 month) & after 2 days on the winder it now reads 30 sec (6 months). It's not possible to tell how close it was to 30 sec because the reserve indicator doesn't change from 15 sec to 30 sec until it is fully charged, but it did increase the reserve reading. My winder is set for 12 min/Hr.


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

bugeyed said:


> I am using an old style Sharper Image watch winder with my SUN023 & it got the reserve up to 6 months very quickly. It's the winder that rocks the watch back & forth. My initial concern was if the rocking was fast enough to charge the watch. When I put the watch in the winder the reserve was at 20 sec (1 month) & after 2 days on the winder it now reads 30 sec (6 months). It's not possible to tell how close it was to 30 sec because the reserve indicator doesn't change from 15 sec to 30 sec until it is fully charged, but it did increase the reserve reading. My winder is set for 12 min/Hr.
> View attachment 10405466


As with my Kitchenaid "winder", more testing is required. First step was getting from 20sec to full charge. To verify I got to full charge, I used the watch and kept utilizing several methods for a few days after getting my initial 30sec reading. Then I set the watch aside and checked the level every day. After 16 days, it was back to 20sec. I have now charged it on the Kitchenaid for 60 mins and worn the watch the last couple of days plus put it on the elliptical while working out. I will now set it aside again to monitor how long it takes to go down to 20 sec. Not sure yet whether to then leave it on the KA for longer or let it go down to 10 secs. All in the name of science!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

Victor Cruz said:


> As with my Kitchenaid "winder", more testing is required. First step was getting from 20sec to full charge. To verify I got to full charge, I used the watch and kept utilizing several methods for a few days after getting my initial 30sec reading. Then I set the watch aside and checked the level every day. After 16 days, it was back to 20sec. I have now charged it on the Kitchenaid for 60 mins and worn the watch the last couple of days plus put it on the elliptical while working out. I will now set it aside again to monitor how long it takes to go down to 20 sec. Not sure yet whether to then leave it on the KA for longer or let it go down to 10 secs. All in the name of science!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm curious if you'll ever get above ~16 days. I haven't and charged the heck out of it with Philips candlelight. I think it's just how Seiko set it up. Just because you're only briefly at 30 sec. doesn't mean you're not getting a 6 month charge.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

We "Kinetic" owners are a "funny" lot, aren't we?

Who of us "stress" that our mobile (cell) phones, or our tablets / laptops have "X" amount of battery time left, unless of course we are "out-and-about" and actually "need" to use them.

It seems that we "Kinetic" owners are "obsessed" with that second hand hitting the "30 sec" mark all the time. An "Impossibility" !! I know that am. That's one reason why I like my "CAL. 5D22". It has a "power reserve" meter that I can actually see without pressing any buttons !! It seems to me that "Mr. Seiko" could have saved us all this "worry" by installing a similar meter in all the "Kinetic" range of watches. 

I do have more to say, but I have to attend to my "CAL. 5M85" ... it seems that it "needs" a little charging ...

Have fun with your watches ...

Cheers ... Pete


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

Victor Cruz said:


> As with my Kitchenaid "winder", more testing is required. First step was getting from 20sec to full charge. To verify I got to full charge, I used the watch and kept utilizing several methods for a few days after getting my initial 30sec reading. Then I set the watch aside and checked the level every day. After 16 days, it was back to 20sec. I have now charged it on the Kitchenaid for 60 mins and worn the watch the last couple of days plus put it on the elliptical while working out. I will now set it aside again to monitor how long it takes to go down to 20 sec. Not sure yet whether to then leave it on the KA for longer or let it go down to 10 secs. All in the name of science!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Replied to wrong post.


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

Sean779 said:


> I'm curious if you'll ever get above ~16 days. I haven't and charged the heck out of it with Philips candlelight. I think it's just how Seiko set it up. Just because you're only briefly at 30 sec. doesn't mean you're not getting a 6 month charge.


Please read post 381. As mentioned and based upon the information you provided, I made a couple of assumptions and based on those assumptions I am proceeding with testing the effectiveness of the Kitchenaid.

If I again notice that it takes ~16 days to go from 30-20 sec, I will let it wind down to 10 to determine if it has indeed reached full charge.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

Victor Cruz said:


> Please read post 381. As mentioned and based upon the information you provided, I made a couple of assumptions and based on those assumptions I am proceeding with testing the effectiveness of the Kitchenaid.
> 
> If I again notice that it takes ~16 days to go from 30-20 sec, I will let it wind down to 10 to determine if it has indeed reached full charge.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I missed your post Victor...sorry about that. I think you're right, 30sec merely indicates a full charge. Yes, I believe 20sec guarantees at least one month left, and it might also mean 6 months.


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## Sean779 (Jul 23, 2007)

I think Seiko messed up on this 20sec/30sec. The manual says 20 sec is one month left, so naturally we want to get deep into 30sec for the other 5 months.


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

Sean779 said:


> I think Seiko messed up on this 20sec/30sec. The manual says 20 sec is one month left, so naturally we want to get deep into 30sec for the other 5 months.


I'll keep posting results here to hopefully get some close to definitive information.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## maxxevv (Sep 10, 2014)

Sean779 said:


> I think Seiko messed up on this 20sec/30sec. The manual says 20 sec is one month left, so naturally we want to get deep into 30sec for the other 5 months.


Its probably the semantics of the language and translation.

Seiko probably meant that 20sec means that there's "at least" 1 month of reserve power. 30s "at least" 6 months. And the maximum capacity of the battery is possibly just a little more than the 6 months reserve. Once charged up and left for a few days, it quickly drops below the 6 months reserve and the 20s tick kicks in. But you probably have like 5 months + some of reserve left in there. A better gauge I think would be how long it takes to drop till the 10s mark.


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## mykie (Jan 2, 2017)

Anyone tried wireless charger from IKEA? 








I guess this one can charge solar also:


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## Ducati_Fiend (Dec 10, 2012)

No go on SUN023 with a Sonicare Healthywhite+ model HX8911. Just fyi. My mechanical winder is working though. Not sure if it's because the watch is new and everything is working efficiently within the watch but regular clockwise mode winds it fine.


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## V10k (Oct 18, 2008)

I don't understand the need for kinetic chargers. I've owned a SNL029 since about 2008 and wear it probably half a dozen times a year (I have a large collection). When I take the watch from its box the second hand is not moving (I don't expect it to be). I then shake the watch a handful of times, put it on my wrist for the day and although the second hand jumps every 2 seconds for the first few hours the time remains totally accurate.


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## V10k (Oct 18, 2008)

Victor Cruz said:


> As a new owner of a BFK, I read through the entire 37 pages of this thread. Two things became obvious, first that keeping kinetic watches charged is a real issue to many, and second that owners think highly enough of these watches to try to come up with alternative ways to keep them charged.
> 
> There have been so many great suggestions from toothbrush and tea light chargers to record players and something as simple as wearing the watch on their weekly run. I was also fascinated by the workaround for using an automatic watch winder. I've also come up with a couple of ideas but have yet to create or test them. One is securing the watch to a ceiling fan and turning it on. Another is creating a pendulum to swing the watch back and forth in a manner similar to your arm swing while walking. Here is a rough diagram.
> 
> ...


Pure Spinal Tap :-D


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

V10k said:


> Pure Spinal Tap :-D


Just to update, I have moved the watch minimally since Jan. 4 and it is still at 20s. This has been painful! Can't tell you how often I wanted to wear it. But I'm trying to get it down to 10s to have a better idea of the full charge.

I will begin monitoring daily at 4mos. Until it gets down to 10 and then will use the "pure Spinal Tap method" to see how long it takes to bring to full charge.

Beginning not to consider this such a big deal as if I had just worn the watch as often as I had wanted to, it would never have gotten close to running low. Guess the thing is to really like wearing the kinetic you own and not having an unmanageable number of ones you like that would make it impossible to wear each of them enough to keep them all from running dry.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

The Philips Tea Light charger works great. I find it faster than with the Braun toothbrush charger. Plus, the cups make it easy to position the watch. The charger switches off automatically after 12 hours, so you don't have to worry about leaving it plugged in too long. I bought mine as an open box example for $35 USD shipped. And the lights are kind of cool.


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

xevious said:


> The Philips Tea Light charger works great. I find it faster than with the Braun toothbrush charger. Plus, the cups make it easy to position the watch. The charger switches off automatically after 12 hours, so you don't have to worry about leaving it plugged in too long. I bought mine as an open box example for $35 USD shipped. And the lights are kind of cool.


Those lights are a pain. They discharge way faster than a watch. But hey, the charger works great


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

OK, I've got the Philips Imageo led lights and charger, and have given my BFK 15 hours in it, with 6 down and face vertical; it hasn't got past the lowest charge point. Am I doing something wrong or do I need to give it longer? :-/

Any help much appreciated.


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## AirWatch (Jan 15, 2008)

lumens electrica said:


> OK, I've got the Philips Imageo led lights and charger, and have given my BFK 15 hours in it, with 6 down and face vertical; it hasn't got past the lowest charge point. Am I doing something wrong or do I need to give it longer? :-/
> 
> Any help much appreciated.


Lay it down and fit it in, non-vertically, 6 down, face down with case sides making maximum contact with the slot. Don't forget to turn the charger on (light on). And I assume you're talking about the charger for the Imageo 3-set small tea lights, which has been discontinued and no longer available here in the US.


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

AirWatch said:


> Lay it down and fit it in, non-vertically, 6 down, face down with case sides making maximum contact with the slot. Don't forget to turn the charger on (light on). And I assume you're talking about the charger for the Imageo 3-set small tea lights, which has been discontinued and no longer available here in the US.


Thanks, will give it a go!


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

Hmmm...gave it twelve hours but it's still stuck at the first charge point. Any ideas?


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## AirWatch (Jan 15, 2008)

lumens electrica said:


> Hmmm...gave it twelve hours but it's still stuck at the first charge point. Any ideas?


Well, more detailed info/pics is what's needed here. Is the watch working normally without second hand skipping? What do you mean by "stuck at first charge point"? What exactly happens when you press the charge indicator button? Have you tried charging it kinetically, if you will, by holding it horizontally and swinging it to and fro about 20º each way for about 10 minutes? If yes, does it take any charge then and can you hear the movement rotating while swinging it? Do you wear the watch regularly? Does the charger work for charging the candle lights? Etc., etc.

This is the setup I described in my post above. It ought to work on a "healthy" BFK and charger. Here's another: Is this, in fact, the charger you have?


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

AirWatch said:


> Well, more detailed info/pics is what's needed here. Is the watch working normally without second hand skipping? What do you mean by "stuck at first charge point"? What exactly happens when you press the charge indicator button? Have you tried charging it kinetically, if you will, by holding it horizontally and swinging it to and fro about 20º each way for about 10 minutes? If yes, does it take any charge then and can you hear the movement rotating while swinging it? Do you wear the watch regularly? Does the charger work for charging the candle lights? Etc., etc.
> 
> This is the setup I described in my post above. It ought to work on a "healthy" BFK and charger. Here's another: Is this, in fact, the charger you have?


The BFK's about three years old and 'healthy'; charges kinetically as it should. At one point it did go down to the 'skip a second', but stopped skipping seconds after being put on the Philips charger (can't remember which orientation).

The BFK measures its charge at 5 secs, 10 secs, 20 secs and 30 seconds; I cannot get it to progress from the 5 secs charge on the charger, though I do regularly get it to the 20 secs charge point when worn (or swinging it, simply to get it charged).

The charger is working as it should for charging the candles; they are the blue LEDs, though I can't imagine that makes a difference.

Thanks.


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## AirWatch (Jan 15, 2008)

If you've charged the watch before on the very same charger, I'd try the other two slots and if that didn't pan out, start playing with the orientation in each slot.


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

AirWatch said:


> If you've charged the watch before on the very same charger, I'd try the other two slots and if that didn't pan out, start playing with the orientation in each slot.


I only managed to stop it skipping seconds, not fully charge it..and I can't find the same orientation again! Has anyone out there with a BFK had any success; do different iterations behave differently?


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

Upright at a slight angle worked well for mine


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

georgefl74 said:


> Upright at a slight angle worked well for mine


Thanks! Do you think that having the strap still attached would cause a problem? Which movement does your BFK have?


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

lumens electrica said:


> Thanks! Do you think that having the strap still attached would cause a problem? Which movement does your BFK have?


No having the strap removed was by chance, it was summer and I was wearing those two on a NATO.

All BFKs have the same 5M62 movement.


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## filcord (Sep 12, 2014)

I have charged my SUN 043 successfully on a Braun toothbrush charger


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## filcord (Sep 12, 2014)

filcord said:


> I have charged my SUN 043 successfully on a Braun toothbrush charger


Like so


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

georgefl74 said:


> No having the strap removed was by chance, it was summer and I was wearing those two on a NATO.
> 
> All BFKs have the same 5M62 movement.


Ok, thanks, I thought someone said the newer ones had updated movements. Still no joy... :-/


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

filcord said:


> I have charged my SUN 043 successfully on a Braun toothbrush charger


I've got an old toothbrush charger, might give it a go, just thought the Philips LED charger would be easier...


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## jcoffin1981 (Aug 16, 2009)

AVS_Racing said:


> SO after almost a week of messing around to my CHRISTMAS SURPRISE the Braun charger worked, I've tried so many different positions watch flat, on charger 6 o'clock towards the back of the charger, 9 o'clock towards the back, tilting, dial down towards charger pole like the Seiko OEM charger set up, even upside down, base of the charger to the base of the watch, I got nothing. I've even used a Palm pre touch stone QI charger and didn't get any results. HOWEVER and this is a big HOWEVER, there is no way that I can confirm if the previous methods actually gave the watch some charge or not since my watch has 20 sec power reserve when I tested all this it just never went to 30 sec till my final position that I can confirm works since it took it to fully charged. On all previous methods I've left the watch at least 8-12 hours in each position as I usually leave it over night but I just didn't see any gain in power. MAYBE the watch was being charged the whole time, I don't know, I don't know if its cuz the charge system is so inefficient. BUT on my final position that I got actual results out of, I left the watch 24 hours in this position and this morning I got full charge. notice the position of the crown and battery pusher button what ever its called. The watch is slightly offset so the "power pole" is closer to 7 o'clock than 5 o'clock.
> 
> View attachment 2421121
> 
> ...


First off, yes I realize this post I'm replying to is 4 years old. I was just reading up on ways to charge my kinetics. The Lithium Ion battery at full charge lasts about 6 months and once discharged does not function anymore, so I stopped replacing the batteries (I may wear the watches once a year). I have used a similar toothbrush charger and in my experience, it charges best in the horizontal position resting on the "pole." The proper place on the dial will vary depending on the movement, but my 5m42's charge best with the charging pole at the 7 oclock position. You may have to open the caseback to visualize the coils. I have not experimented with dial up vs dial down. In my own mind I think it's better if you spin the rotor away from the charging spot, but I can't say with any certainty that this makes a difference.

I do not know where the strongest induction spot on the charger is at the tip of the pole or the base, I can only say what has worked best for me.


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## Vladimir Prill (May 29, 2017)

Добрый день!!!! Я покупала в Philips IMAGEO, зарядки нет. Прошу подсказать - я не правильно выставлены часы?


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## Cobia (Nov 24, 2013)

Im having zero luck, ive even tried 2 at the same time, front and back, nothing.


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

I gave up with Philips Imageo. Tried every which way with no joy; the case got warm in one position but absolutely no effect on the charge. 

Ended up manually charging over three or four days (drove my wife mad!), and managed to get it up to the thirty second (top), reading but only briefly. Within ten minutes it had dropped to the lower reading and this repeated no matter how much longer I continued to charge it.


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## AirWatch (Jan 15, 2008)

^ Sounds like it needs a new battery.


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

AirWatch said:


> ^ Sounds like it needs a new battery.


I'll let it run to see how long it lasts; it should be good for about six months, so as long as it approaches that, I'm not going to get too worried. Time will tell, as they say...


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## filcord (Sep 12, 2014)

lumens electrica said:


> I gave up with Philips Imageo. Tried every which way with no joy; the case got warm in one position but absolutely no effect on the charge.
> 
> Ended up manually charging over three or four days (drove my wife mad!), and managed to get it up to the thirty second (top), reading but only briefly. Within ten minutes it had dropped to the lower reading and this repeated no matter how much longer I continued to charge it.


Important thing to note, the top (crystal) of the watch should be toward the induction coil. I have read somewhere that there is a flywheel or some such at the base of the watch that shields the internal coil, so make sure you put the watch face/crystal side down.


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## lumens electrica (Sep 21, 2015)

filcord said:


> Important thing to note, the top (crystal) of the watch should be toward the induction coil. I have read somewhere that there is a flywheel or some such at the base of the watch that shields the internal coil, so make sure you put the watch face/crystal side down.


Tried it that way too!

The BFK is too big to sit flat in the recess, so it was at an angle but the watch did get warm in this position. Unfortunately it made absolutely no difference to the charge held.

Thanks anyway!


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## filcord (Sep 12, 2014)

lumens electrica said:


> Tried it that way too!
> 
> The BFK is too big to sit flat in the recess, so it was at an angle but the watch did get warm in this position. Unfortunately it made absolutely no difference to the charge held.
> 
> Thanks anyway!


Excellent, watch getting warm is a sign that it's charging. You just have to find now which side down i.e, 6 oclock, or 9 or 12... Don't give up! These kinetics , for me , are like being challenged to a contest, and I never give in!


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## attipton (Sep 11, 2017)

timeparadox said:


> Thanks for the info!
> I ordered the charger based on the success discussed here. Got it for 17$. Would this be the way to place the watch on the charger? I don't have a way to test for sure since it's become my main watch and it's stays at 6 months reserve. It tried to imagine the coil on the imaginary line between 8 and 10 o'clock and place that line at dead center on the charger..


I bought my Dakota REQ charger used off eBay for $30 (plus shipping) but it came with the watch as well. I gave the watch to my son since I didn't want or need it. I read that the Dakota watch took approx 36 hours to charge once a month or two depending on the use of the LED lights. I figured I would be able to let him charge his watch for a day or two and my Seiko Kinetic will most definitely keep running during that time.

I can verify that the placement of the watch on the Dakota REQ charger shown below in my pic does work (the guy I quoted also placed his this way). My older Seiko Kinetic was completely dead for more than a year. I tried multiple positions for several days. I usually placed it in a position and gave it 24 hours to see if it took a charge at all. Once I swung the pendulum to the 2 o'clock position (unsure if that part is completely necessary) and placed it exactly the way I have pictured below, it did charge to a 5 second sweep within about 12 hours. It is now at a 10 second sweep after a full 24 hours.

**** NOTE: this watch has a solid metal backing, not the glass where you can see the pendulum moving. It is still charging it thru that and I don't have to place the watch face down. I did try putting it face down but it was not taking a charge. That may have still been a placement issue but I would rather have it face up regardless.
*
I have a second Dakota REQ charger on order (I have two Seiko watches) and I plan on opening up the Dakota charger and see if I can modify the coil or put my own in to make the watch charge while seated in the charging base the way it is supposed to for the Dakota. It is a pain to get the Seiko in JUST the right position and make sure it doesn't slide into the built in depression. I will keep this updated and post pics when I get a chance to see if I can get these chargers working perfectly with a Seiko Kinetic...

Here are my pics of the way I positioned my Seiko in order to get it to take a charge...















*** Edit: Changed a couple descriptive words and added the NOTE section in bold.


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

Put up a video on YouTube showing the Philips Imageo in action as well as a hack with a record turntable. Enjoy


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## Time Seller (Feb 3, 2017)

georgefl74 said:


> Put up a video on YouTube showing the Philips Imageo in action as well as a hack with a record turntable. Enjoy


Just stumbled across your video by chance, thanks for it.
Have you tried a BFK successfully on the Imageo charger? I'm on the verge of getting one to try it.


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

Time Seller said:


> Just stumbled across your video by chance, thanks for it.
> Have you tried a BFK successfully on the Imageo charger? I'm on the verge of getting one to try it.


Sure, both a pepsi and an orange. Any 5M engine has charged easily enough.


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## awatchdude (Sep 26, 2014)

Here are some other solutions I have been researching

DIY Gyro watch winder

















DIY Arduino watch winder (stepper motor can be programmed to swing left and right (faster motion) for a kinetic.)





Rapport London Evolution EVO CUBE Watch Winder (Swinging motion winder) $350 on Amazon.





Lastly, This adafruit link shows a complete kit to make a stepper motor cycle back and forth. This could be mounted and used as a simple winder.
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2448


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

I think it's a worthy kickstarter project, building an affordable yet durable and relatively fast kinetic winder. It could be something similar to the Seiko induction charger with a simple positioning how-to or a mechanical one that will work faster than the usual winders cause they'll just take forever to fully wind a Kinetic.

This said, being a cheapskate, the two ways I've documented work very well and are very affordable. If you own a turntable it's obviously free and you only have to do it a couple of times per year. You can get a second hand turntable cheap too, you only need the motor running. Also the Imageo charger can still be picked up cheap if you're not interested in the candles.


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## awatchdude (Sep 26, 2014)

Just got this Rotorwind cup assembly from Orbita. :-d $39 It includes the watch cushion and has bearing in back that allows it to swing freely when attached to a motor.









The motor simply turns a notch "key" that hooks and rotates the weight. When the weight reaches the top (12 o'clock), it falls and makes the watch swing in a natural motion. This motion should wind a Kinetic.









You can see the key (#2) in the diagram below. (#1 is the cup assembly)









All I need now is an Arduino Uno, stepper motor and simple key. :-!

Orbita watch winder in action ;-)


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## awatchdude (Sep 26, 2014)

bugeyed said:


> I am using an old style Sharper Image watch winder with my SUN023 & it got the reserve up to 6 months very quickly. It's the winder that rocks the watch back & forth. My initial concern was if the rocking was fast enough to charge the watch. When I put the watch in the winder the reserve was at 20 sec (1 month) & after 2 days on the winder it now reads 30 sec (6 months). It's not possible to tell how close it was to 30 sec because the reserve indicator doesn't change from 15 sec to 30 sec until it is fully charged, but it did increase the reserve reading. My winder is set for 12 min/Hr.
> View attachment 10405466


I just got the same winder from eBay but it doesn't move. After adding the batteries and inserting it back into the case, how do you get it to start winding?


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## 3Pedals_6Speeds (Mar 19, 2008)

I have used the 3-hole Philips charger shown in this thread for a couple years with great luck (watch placed in vertically, 6pm 'down' and 12 O'Clock pointing to the ceiling), but recently have gotten to the point where I need a few extra positions. I recently bought one of these: https://images.philips.com/is/image/PhilipsConsumer/691266046-IMS-en_AU?$jpglarge$&wid=1250 that has 6 positions, and while they are slightly smaller (an BFK might not fit), they do work on the smaller kinetics just fine. Thought I'd share.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

georgefl74 said:


> Put up a video on YouTube showing the Philips Imageo in action as well as a hack with a record turntable. Enjoy


Thanks for taking the time to make your video and post it, George.

I've been using one of these as well, and it works. Certainly faster than the turntable approach. I supposed the turntable is fine as a backup method, but I expect it draws quite a bit more power to physically turn the platter, versus the electromagnetic induction charging of the Imageo.

When I charge my watch (SKA413), I've always had it sitting 12 o'clock up, and pointing the face to the center. I hadn't tried pointing the crown to it. I'll try that out and see if I get a better result.


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## mtb2104 (Nov 26, 2012)

Happy to report Philips HX-9100 works well for my SUN023.

My SUN023 was completely dry, and once put it vertically, second hand started to move. Right now it is finally showing full charge (30 seconds)!


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## Mbaulfinger (Apr 30, 2014)

mtb2104, Just wanted to thank you for posting the charger in the photo above. After seeing it, I bought the same one and have tested it. Have changed up my SUN023 and SUN065 using this charger. Hope this helps anyone who's in a similar situation looking for a way to top off the charge on a kinetic and doesn't wear it all the time. 

The watch gets a bit warm on the charger and it did take a couple of days to get to full charge. Not sure if that indicates my capacitor is weak...


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## filcord (Sep 12, 2014)

Mbaulfinger said:


> mtb2104, Just wanted to thank you for posting the charger in the photo above. After seeing it, I bought the same one and have tested it. Have changed up my SUN023 and SUN065 using this charger. Hope this helps anyone who's in a similar situation looking for a way to top off the charge on a kinetic and doesn't wear it all the time.
> 
> The watch gets a bit warm on the charger and it did take a couple of days to get to full charge. Not sure if that indicates my capacitor is weak...


My SUN043 also gets a bit warm. I have put it on the toothbrush charger sometime end September, and it's still showing full charge, with about a day's use every week

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk


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## mtb2104 (Nov 26, 2012)

Mbaulfinger said:


> mtb2104, Just wanted to thank you for posting the charger in the photo above. After seeing it, I bought the same one and have tested it. Have changed up my SUN023 and SUN065 using this charger. Hope this helps anyone who's in a similar situation looking for a way to top off the charge on a kinetic and doesn't wear it all the time.
> 
> The watch gets a bit warm on the charger and it did take a couple of days to get to full charge. Not sure if that indicates my capacitor is weak...


Glad to share!
Mine does the same things (gets warm/takes a few days), but I think it's fine based on previous posts from this thread.
Good thing is now I don't have to wear it and have it fully charged!


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## Dav25 (Jan 18, 2016)

On my Braun Toothbrush charger. Took me a few positions to get the right one. 









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bwoah (Sep 14, 2015)

mtb2104 said:


> Happy to report Philips HX-9100 works well for my SUN023.
> 
> My SUN023 was completely dry, and once put it vertically, second hand started to move. Right now it is finally showing full charge (30 seconds)!


i will now attempt to charge my 100% dead BFK with this same charger. fingers crossed...


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## bwoah (Sep 14, 2015)

reporting back that the philips hx-9100 charger that i bought on amazon for about $30 did indeed charge up my dead bfk! the charger is a shallow cup, so it is a bit tough to stand the watch in there. my bfk balances okay with the 7 o’clock lug down in the bottom of the cup. i found it easiest to charge without any straps attached. very happy to finally find an available and cost efficient charger!

i also charged a friend’s seiko kinetic (not sure what watch it is) - for that one we had to take bracelet off one side in order to sit the watch into the shallow cup.


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## bwoah (Sep 14, 2015)

reporting back that the philips hx-9100 charger that i bought on amazon for about $30 did indeed charge up my dead bfk! the charger is a shallow cup, so it is a bit tough to stand the watch in there. my bfk balances okay with the 7 o’clock lug down in the bottom of the cup. i found it easiest to charge without any straps attached. very happy to finally find an available and cost efficient charger!

i also charged a friend’s seiko kinetic (not sure what watch it is) - for that one we had to take bracelet off one side in order to sit the watch into the shallow cup.


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## mtb2104 (Nov 26, 2012)

great to see success stories!


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## bwoah (Sep 14, 2015)

mtb2104 said:


> great to see success stories!


Thank you sir for the pro tip!


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## SawDoc441 (Sep 12, 2016)

Whoever thought this up is a genius! I have been out of love with my SUN041 GMT for a while because it is always low on charge or dead. I have a growing collection, and it gets a few hours per month, maybe 2 days on a heavy month of wearing. I stole my wife's Braun toothbrush charger last evening, and placed the post adjacent to the coils on the watch. Watch was stone dead, and to my surprise, it started 2-second ticking immediately! After 24 hours, the power meter is up to 10 seconds! I will report back later. No more shaking it all afternoon for me. Thanks to the person who originally figured this induction charging out.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## desc82 (Dec 28, 2017)

Hi all, I'm new here so it is actually my first post ever on a watch forum. I'm glad to bring some contribution to the community.


So here it is. I personally own two Seiko kinetic watches (one ska582 and a wonderful ska649). I came across this thread many times in the past to see how I could find a cheap alternative to the far too expensive Seiko charger. 
I first tried the braun charger with no success. Actually I think somehow I managed to charge the ska582 a little bit but then I lost the sweet spot. And anyway, to me there was no question I would use something that tricky and frustrating. I needed someting that really works without the hassle of having to play the trial and error game every time.


So then I was lucky enough to put an hand on the Philips Imageo led candles from and auction on ebay at a very low price. And it really works. For both watches. It is amazing. 

I started charging from a very low state of charge (5 on a scale of 30) and I was able to reach a full charge in less than 5 hours. I put the watches facing down in the slots, making the watches leaning at about 45 degrees (see pictures).
This is the way I found to be the more appropriate in order to make sure the coils are deep enough in the slots so that the induction effect can be optimal.

So if anybody is tired of the toothbrush charger approach, I can testify that the Philips Imageo is a much more effective way to achieve induction charging.

Good thing also is that this charger stops automatically after 8 hours or so, preventing overcharge of the battery (in case there is no protection, but I don't know).

So I hope my experience could help people that are still struggling with this issue.

Cheers!


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## Rhialto (Feb 6, 2018)

Hi folks, I joined just to post a thanks for this thread exploring options for charging the Seiko Kinetic. I noticed after changing the capacitor that the watch was very difficult to charge via hand movement, you could get it going, but getting anywhere near a full charge was next to impossible.

I have a Philips HX5100 for my Sonicare brush and while it is quite slow to charge the watch it does actually work. I placed the watch as pictured here - i.imgur.com/Qjjw7fi.jpg - and after a few days I noticed it was no longer doing the second hand skip anymore and that the charge indicator button actually showed an increase in charge.

Thanks for the help


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## skunkworks (Apr 5, 2017)

Forgive my ignorance, but does anyone know if wireless cell phone chargers work?

Instagram: skunkworkswatches


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

skunkworks said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but does anyone know if wireless cell phone chargers work?
> 
> Instagram: skunkworkswatches


nope


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## skunkworks (Apr 5, 2017)

I had a hard time getting the toothbrush charger to work. I picked up a $6 USB one off eBay. I took the back of it off, flipped the coil over and sit the watch on the bottom of the charger, now it works like a charm!

Instagram: skunkworkswatches


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## hellowin (Jul 22, 2014)

Hi everyone, really glad to find this thread, I just acquired a NOS Seiko Landmaster SBDW005 with 5M65 caliber inside, and wondering if the using of non seiko induction charger will somehow reducing the capacitor over time (earlier than it should be). Are there anyone experienced such things?
Thanks.


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## naio21 (Sep 9, 2011)

Hello everyone, greetings from Brazil! I've got 2 kinetic Seikos among my ~150 watches, so it is impossible to keep them charged. I also have a Samsung Gear S3 Frontier, which comes with a wireless charging dock like this:










I was wondering if I could use it to charge my kinetics as well, but I just didn't tried it yet because the smartwatch attaches to the dock through magnetism. Could it render my poor little watches useless? :think:


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## filcord (Sep 12, 2014)

naio21 said:


> Hello everyone, greetings from Brazil! I've got 2 kinetic Seikos among my ~150 watches, so it is impossible to keep them charged. I also have a Samsung Gear S3 Frontier, which comes with a wireless charging dock like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, it's been tried on this forum. It doesn't charge that way.

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk


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## Gemeinagent (Jan 26, 2015)

These Philips candle chargers are really helpful. They also have an offering for owners of more than three Kinetics...


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

Gemeinagent said:


> These Philips candle chargers are really helpful. They also have an offering for owners of more than three Kinetics...


nice collection. Which models are the two nearest to the camera, the silver and the gold dialed?


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## Gemeinagent (Jan 26, 2015)

I only know the Ref.# of the "Genta" AGS by heart. That's a 7M22-6A50 or SDM 053 (SDM 055 with black dial and leather strap in the back, can't really see it).


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## nish99 (Aug 29, 2017)

ptwang said:


> Okay, I've some news to report. I bought a charging stand from the Dakota Watch Company (google Dakota Watch REQ charging stand and you'll find the product) which I believe is made by Ricoh Elemex Corp--less than $30 shipped. Rumor has it, this is the same charger for the MTM special ops line of watches. I placed my Seiko SKH060 (5m42, original capacitor replaced with Maxell li-on battery) on it the way you would normally charge the Dakota line of watches (case face up). After 2 hours, I checked the indicator and got no improvements. I turned the Seiko 180 degree and tried again--still nothing. Then I opened the charging stand, and saw that the coil was located at the dead center. This time I moved the Seiko off center slightly so that one of the coils in the watch would lie across the center of the charger. 5 minutes later, bingo! The indicator moved from 20 unit to 30. I don't know how much the battery is charged within that time, since the indicator was designed for the original capacitor (holds 7-14 days worth of power), not the new rechargeable battery (6 months on full), but it's certainly doing something. I think I'll leave the watch on the charger overnight. Hopefully, Seiko has some kind of over-charging prevention mechanism. I don't know if there's any risk to this experiment. I just thought I'd share my observations. YMMV.


Could you post a pic of the charger pls! I have trouble with my vintage seiko AGS diver!

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## nish99 (Aug 29, 2017)

I’ve been trying to charge my vintage seiko AGS diver but it just refuses to charge! Kindly advice! 


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## ObiWonWD40 (Apr 29, 2018)

nish99 said:


> I've been trying to charge my vintage seiko AGS diver but it just refuses to charge! Kindly advice!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The most obvious advice is that the capacitor/battery needs to be replaced. The next test I would do is take it to a friendly Seiko dealer repairer and get then to put it on to their official Seiko Charger for Kinetics. If it won't charge on that and the battery is ok, or has been recently replaced then you need to get it serviced by somebody or a company who knows how to service one of this type of watch. If the original capacitor is still in the watch then you do need to get it changed, there is an issue with some capacitors in that they have leaked out inside the watch, which could mean either a very expensive repair or the scrap bin! Hopefully, it will be a simple solution like a new battery, my last change cost me £28, but that was for a regularly serviced watch, but the issue was exactly the same as you report.

I do hope you have a happy result to this story, but please come back and tell what happened.

Regards
Jim


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## ObiWonWD40 (Apr 29, 2018)

nish99 said:


> I've been trying to charge my vintage seiko AGS diver but it just refuses to charge! Kindly advice!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The most obvious advice is that the capacitor/battery needs to be replaced. The next test I would do is take it to a friendly Seiko dealer repairer and get then to put it on to their official Seiko Charger for Kinetics. If it won't charge on that and the battery is ok, or has been recently replaced then you need to get it serviced by somebody or a company who knows how to service one of this type of watch. If the original capacitor is still in the watch then you do need to get it changed, there is an issue with some capacitors in that they have leaked out inside the watch, which could mean either a very expensive repair or the scrap bin! Hopefully, it will be a simple solution like a new battery, my last change cost me £28, but that was for a regularly serviced watch, but the issue was exactly the same as you report.

I do hope you have a happy result to this story, but please come back and tell what happened.

Regards
Jim


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## nish99 (Aug 29, 2017)

ObiWonWD40 said:


> The most obvious advice is that the capacitor/battery needs to be replaced. The next test I would do is take it to a friendly Seiko dealer repairer and get then to put it on to their official Seiko Charger for Kinetics. If it won't charge on that and the battery is ok, or has been recently replaced then you need to get it serviced by somebody or a company who knows how to service one of this type of watch. If the original capacitor is still in the watch then you do need to get it changed, there is an issue with some capacitors in that they have leaked out inside the watch, which could mean either a very expensive repair or the scrap bin! Hopefully, it will be a simple solution like a new battery, my last change cost me £28, but that was for a regularly serviced watch, but the issue was exactly the same as you report.
> 
> I do hope you have a happy result to this story, but please come back and tell what happened.
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot Jim! Very helpful advice! I'm sure the capacitor was changed before I purchased the watch but it's hardly been used which explains the lack of charge. It starts ticking after a few shakes but it's the typical 2 seconds tick inspite of trying to shake it back to life! I'll have it seen by a seiko dealer and hopefully have it rectified. Paid quite a bit to throw it in the bin! 

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## Arimar (May 24, 2018)

My one cent Worth answer: I can charge all my kinetics with braun charger, no matter what position is. The trick is to open the case back, and just put the coil close to the braun. Its quite powerful. You can feel the magnetic current ! After 10 minutes charging on this way, most of my kinetics runs for a month or more without use. If I swing it, couple of times every week, I can maintain all working. The few ones that stop, I redo. Open the case back, and put it near the braun charger. Time consuming, but collecting kinetics is adictive. So I will keep doing it.


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## Time Seller (Feb 3, 2017)

This Philips candle charger will do it. It might take a couple of days, but it works . . . tried and tested.


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## nish99 (Aug 29, 2017)

Arimar said:


> My one cent Worth answer: I can charge all my kinetics with braun charger, no matter what position is. The trick is to open the case back, and just put the coil close to the braun. Its quite powerful. You can feel the magnetic current ! After 10 minutes charging on this way, most of my kinetics runs for a month or more without use. If I swing it, couple of times every week, I can maintain all working. The few ones that stop, I redo. Open the case back, and put it near the braun charger. Time consuming, but collecting kinetics is adictive. So I will keep doing it.


Mine is a mono block case.. not sure if it's ok to flip the crystal and dial just to get to the capacitor! Any other suggestions?

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## donttpanic (Nov 9, 2016)

Gemeinagent said:


> These Philips candle chargers are really helpful. They also have an offering for owners of more than three Kinetics...


That's a wild solution! Do you keep them on the charger all the time, or only for occasional charging? The reason I ask is that Lithium cells can get damaged from being too full just about as much as being too empty. However, Seiko might have some circuitry inside to prevent overcharging, so it may not matter.


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## Gemeinagent (Jan 26, 2015)

Yeah, Seiko has an overcharge protection built in, so that should not be a problem. I just wonder why there is no "undercharge" protection. Maybe because originally they used a capacitor and not a Lithium cell. They are not affected by "running flat".

And no, I do not keep them there all the time. But I only had a three-port charger and that is only about half my AGS collection... It is really hard to keep them all charged and the one-piece cases are a real PITA to change the cells.  So I guess they will have more time on the charger now.


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## ibo (Jul 2, 2018)

Since Philips discontinued their 3-candle set, and I surely don't need 6 charging cups, I opted for this setup.







I have the Philips HX9100 charger plugged into a P3 P4400 Kill A Watt to monitor current draw. I tried placing the watch without straps in different positions on the charger without the supplied plastic cup. The maximum current draw I could get was 1.3W, but the watch wouldn't stand up in that position by itself, so I compromised with the position pictured above which charges at 1.0W.


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## dodgerduke (Dec 14, 2011)

After reading about the Philips HX9100 on this thread I ordered one from Ebay for approx $19. Thanks to whoever the OP was because I can testify it works great. My Seiko SUN019 was completely dead and after 2 days it was fully charged. While not in my daily rotation right now, I'm sure I will come back to it again and when I do I'd like it be ready to go.


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## dodgerduke (Dec 14, 2011)

After reading about the Philips HX9100 on this thread I ordered one from Ebay for approx $19. Thanks to whoever the OP was because I can testify it works great. My Seiko SUN019 was completely dead and after 2 days it was fully charged. While not in my daily rotation right now, I'm sure I will come back to it again and when I do I'd like it be ready to go. Sorry about the pic orientation, I haven't figured out how to correct that.


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## TexasTango (Dec 15, 2018)

*Two Chargers Are Better Than One*

I know this is an old thread, but this is info to know.
Sandwich your watch between two toothbrush chargers and get extremely fast results.

I had jacked around trying to charge my 5M85 kinetic with a Braun toothbrush charger, many different positions, for two days.
Tried two different old chargers I had.
Never got off the 20 second indicator.

I finally thought, why not double the fun?
As soon as I sandwiched the watch between the two chargers, it went from the 20 second indicator to the 30 second indicator in about 2 hours.

I left it charging that way last night, and I'll see how long it lasts.


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## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

Interesting idea did you prop them up on both sides of the kinetic watch?


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## Mbaulfinger (Apr 30, 2014)

TexasTango, Great idea. Would like to see a picture of your setup. Personally I didn't have any luck with the Braun toothbrush charger but have had great success with the Phillips unit.


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## TexasTango (Dec 15, 2018)

trott3r said:


> Interesting idea did you prop them up on both sides of the kinetic watch?


Watch sitting on the Braun charger with a foam block over the toothbrush guide pin, at a slight angle so the watch counterweight is out of the way between the charger and the charging coil in the watch (glass back).
Position the other charger on top of the watch, close to the charging coil (8-9pm).
(This pic is a recreation. During the actual charging, the watch was rotated to where the top charger was sitting on about 7-8pm).

View attachment 13723287


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## TexasTango (Dec 15, 2018)

Mbaulfinger said:


> TexasTango, Great idea. Would like to see a picture of your setup. Personally I didn't have any luck with the Braun toothbrush charger but have had great success with the Phillips unit.


Thanks.

Looking now, I see that the top charger is actually not a Braun, but a Poseidon oral irrigator charger.
But, by itself, it didn't do any good either, so, I think any two inductive chargers would do the trick.

Also, the watch was rotated more than in this pic, so the top charger was sitting on about 7-8pm


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

Have 4 fully charged Seiko Kinetic GMTs in this cheap induction charger designed for electric candles.



This orientation works best for charging the watches, after some experimentation.



Occasionally just push the red "charge" button to keep them topped up and ready to grab-and-go.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

That's a nice looking collection of Seiko "SUN"s that you have there Mr "yankeexpress" !! 

I've just bought a PADI '065 for myself, and was wondering about the best placement on that charger, so I will try how you have your lot set.

Cheers .. Pete


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## ObiWonWD40 (Apr 29, 2018)

Reading the latests posts on this thread reminds me that I should wear my Kinetic watch more, currently around 1 day a month :-(

Nearly two years ago I bought a New Braun Charger and it too me several weeks to figure out the best position to place the watch in to get it to charge.

Currently it is under my desk on the Braun Charger, held in place by Bostik Blue Tack which is a useful sticky putty which moulds and lightly holds any small component in place. In this example I roll it between my hands to warm it up and make it malleable, then I take the "sausage" of Blue Tack and use that to hold the watch face to the charging spike. This charges the watch in around 48hrs if quite discharged but overnight for a couple of nights a week keeps it fully charged.

Hope the picture helps.









So why do I charge through the face of the watch? Because that is how the Seiko charger works |> I believe that the Philips candle chargers are a better option, but I only have one Kinetic and don't have any current plans to get another so the toothbrush charger works fine for me. The rechargeable battery will probably wear out in around 6 to 7 years on current estimates, it was replaced just about a year ago, but if you can change a normal battery then changing the rechargeable is not that much more difficult. So all in all the dramas you read about Kinetics are overplayed in my opinion.

Best regards,
Jim


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## canonken (Jan 13, 2018)

Would my stock SMY089 work with these techniques, or does it use a different battery solution?

Thanks!


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## canonken (Jan 13, 2018)

ibo said:


> Since Philips discontinued their 3-candle set, and I surely don't need 6 charging cups, I opted for this setup.
> View attachment 13366905
> 
> I have the Philips HX9100 charger plugged into a P3 P4400 Kill A Watt to monitor current draw. I tried placing the watch without straps in different positions on the charger without the supplied plastic cup. The maximum current draw I could get was 1.3W, but the watch wouldn't stand up in that position by itself, so I compromised with the position pictured above which charges at 1.0W.


LOL!

I had my Kill A Watt out to see if I could see my charger working or not. Great minds...

Unfortunately, the power draw is so low (with the toothbrush in it), it would not even trigger to 1 watt.


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## gran_ (Jan 5, 2019)

Probably not the right place to ask, but what is kinetic movement? I thought kinetic watch has a rotor (like automatic) and that rotor charges the battery. Why would you need a charger for this kind of watch?


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## jhanna1701 (Jan 13, 2015)

gran_ said:


> Probably not the right place to ask, but what is kinetic movement? I thought kinetic watch has a rotor (like automatic) and that rotor charges the battery. Why would you need a charger for this kind of watch?


You are absolutely correct... However, they can also be charged via induction charging, which means that if your watch doesn't see heavy rotation on your wrist, you can still keep it topped off.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

gran_ said:


> Probably not the right place to ask, but what is kinetic movement? I thought kinetic watch has a rotor (like automatic) and that rotor charges the battery. Why would you need a charger for this kind of watch?


It's no trouble when you're mostly wearing the kinetic, as arm movement will keep it mostly charged up. But... for those of us with multiple watches, the kinetic powered watch can sit for long periods, allowing the capacitor to wind down. So these chargers are instrumental in boosting the charge up. Very handy!


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

So why exactly don't iPhone chargers work?


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

HeadedToTexas said:


> So why exactly don't iPhone chargers work?


Bad mojo


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

HeadedToTexas said:


> So why exactly don't iPhone chargers work?


Good question ....

I was wondering what was the difference myself, so I had a look at the wiki about the "Qi" Standard for inductive charging. (Apple among others use this "Standard").

Short answer from what I can gather is, the "Qi" Standard is "intelligent" and needs the "smarts" at both ends to "power-up", while the "tooth-brush" and Philips inductive chargers (the ones for their "candle-lights") and similar types are not intelligent. These do not care if you put your watch or your Tesla next to them. If they can inductively "connect" then some power will transfer.

Now, I have been known to be completely wrong about things at times, so best not to quote me on this info. 

Cheers .. Pete


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

Ah-hah! That would do it. Makes sense.


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

This is kind of strange. My BFK was dead. I mean totally dead! I had tried charging it through use but it would get up to the 20 minute mark but wouldn't hold. I was even ready to get a replacement battery. Then a week ago I picked it up, again totally dead and left it on top of my cheap watch winder. Bought them years ago from Jomashop. They are modular and can be stacked with only one being directly plugged into AC. A few minutes later I go to pick it up and it's jumping at 2 second intervals, so not dead anymore. Figured, hmmm...let me leave it on there. Later on, a few hours later it is now jumping seconds. What the heck, let me just leave it on there.

A couple of days go by and it's charge remains at the 5 minute mark so I'm thinking, eh, this isn't going to last but then the next day it hits 10, another day goes by and it's at 20! Whoa, are you kidding me?

This morning, after about a week at hit 30. So I guess watch winders CAN be used to charge kinetics!










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

Victor Cruz said:


> This is kind of strange. My BFK was dead. I mean totally dead! I had tried charging it through use but it would get up to the 20 minute mark but wouldn't hold. I was even ready to get a replacement battery. Then a week ago I picked it up, again totally dead and left it on top of my cheap watch winder. Bought them years ago from Jomashop. They are modular and can be stacked with only one being directly plugged into AC. A few minutes later I go to pick it up and it's jumping at 2 second intervals, so not dead anymore. Figured, hmmm...let me leave it on there. Later on, a few hours later it is now jumping seconds. What the heck, let me just leave it on there.
> 
> A couple of days go by and it's charge remains at the 5 minute mark so I'm thinking, eh, this isn't going to last but then the next day it hits 10, another day goes by and it's at 20! Whoa, are you kidding me?
> 
> ...


There's a magnetic field created somewhere, probably due to the motion. That's good for your Kinetic but probably bad for the Explorer.


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

georgefl74 said:


> There's a magnetic field created somewhere, probably due to the motion. That's good for your Kinetic but probably bad for the Explorer.


I've had the winders for a very long time and have never had issues with magnetism on any watch I've put in them.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

Victor Cruz said:


> This is kind of strange. My BFK was dead. I mean totally dead! I had tried charging it through use but it would get up to the 20 minute mark but wouldn't hold. I was even ready to get a replacement battery. Then a week ago I picked it up, again totally dead and left it on top of my cheap watch winder. Bought them years ago from Jomashop. They are modular and can be stacked with only one being directly plugged into AC. A few minutes later I go to pick it up and it's jumping at 2 second intervals, so not dead anymore. Figured, hmmm...let me leave it on there. Later on, a few hours later it is now jumping seconds. What the heck, let me just leave it on there.
> 
> A couple of days go by and it's charge remains at the 5 minute mark so I'm thinking, eh, this isn't going to last but then the next day it hits 10, another day goes by and it's at 20! Whoa, are you kidding me?
> 
> ...


<SATIRE> Ah! Yes! ... All very good ... But, will it now charge your Toothbrush </SATIRE> :-d


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## Victor Cruz (Aug 27, 2013)

Pete_JBK said:


> <SATIRE> Ah! Yes! ... All very good ... But, will it now charge your Toothbrush </SATIRE> :-d


My toothbrush is not even electric and I think it's magnetized. (Satire as well)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## canonken (Jan 13, 2018)

Pete_JBK said:


> Good question ....
> 
> I was wondering what was the difference myself, so I had a look at the wiki about the "Qi" Standard for inductive charging. (Apple among others use this "Standard").
> 
> ...


You are correct, I deal with these products at a deeper level.

The main reason is there is WAY more energy moving between the devices, and if there was a key, paper clip in between them, you could melt the plastic, damage the devices. Both devices are actively monitoring the charge process and shut down if anything is out of order.


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## waterdude (Apr 19, 2012)

dodgerduke said:


> After reading about the Philips HX9100 on this thread I ordered one from Ebay for approx $19. Thanks to whoever the OP was because I can testify it works great. My Seiko SUN019 was completely dead and after 2 days it was fully charged. While not in my daily rotation right now, I'm sure I will come back to it again and when I do I'd like it be ready to go. Sorry about the pic orientation, I haven't figured out how to correct that.
> 
> View attachment 13528253


Sorry to quote such an old post, but did your charger come with the little glass that fits on top and would normally allow the toothbrush to stand up?

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## waterdude (Apr 19, 2012)

In that same vein, if anyone else is using the Phillips hx9100, did you use the glass? I’m wondering if it still works as it should, and helps the watch stand up easier. 


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## TwentiethCenturyFox (Mar 8, 2014)

Brilliant! Now I will have a a Guiness.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

My HX9100 charger arrived today and my Gray Ghost is sitting in it as I type. Still skipping seconds, but my fingers are crossed. Here's why I think it will work. Unlike the nub type inductive charger, the 9100 is designed to charge a toothbrush through a glass that sits on the charger base. That puts the coil of the Kinetic closer to the 9100 coil than the toothbrush coil is. Or at least that's what I'm hoping. More in the morning.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

Two hours on the cup base and still skipping seconds. WFT?


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

HeadedToTexas said:


> Two hours on the cup base and still skipping seconds. WFT?


2 hours is nothing, needs much more hours.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

Roger that. I'll be patient.


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## mtb2104 (Nov 26, 2012)

Does it get warm?
If it doesn't, change a position.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

HeadedToTexas said:


> Two hours on the cup base and still skipping seconds. WFT?


Check out posts #466 & #467 as they have used that charger.


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## waterdude (Apr 19, 2012)

I’ve had both the Phillips Imageo candle charger and the HX9100 toothbrush charger, and I can attest that they both work wonderfully. Because it’s so shallow, I did have to remove the bracelet with the toothbrush charger, but I’ve ordered the glass that fits on top with the hope that I can leave the bracelet mounted, and have the watch sit in the charger adequately. 


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

So this morning, after more than 12 hours with its six sitting in the silver bowl of the HX9100, the Gray Ghost is not ticking at all. I had it oriented six down as in post 467. Nothing is warm and that correlates with the lack of charging. I'll try the three down position today. The Gray Ghost has a 5M63 movement. Is the charging coil in some odd place?

I don't think it's the Kinetic system because I can spin the rotor or wear the watch and it will charge and run and keep time. These Philips charging bases do not have a pilot light or make a noise, so how can I know for sure that they are working as designed?


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## waterdude (Apr 19, 2012)

My sun017 wouldn’t sit with both lugs in the charger so I sat mine with the 7:00 lug in the charger. I had to use a rubber dive strap to counterbalance the weight of the watch, keeping it from falling over. 

If it isn’t warm, and not receiving a charge, maybe the charger is bad. You’re correct though, there’s really no way to know. 


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## Dav25 (Jan 18, 2016)

I have used a braun toothbrush charger for the last 3 yrs and works like a charm. You have to find the sweet spot 









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## Time Seller (Feb 3, 2017)

The Imageo does have a charging light that goes out after 8 hours, at which time it can be immediately activated again.


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## ObiWonWD40 (Apr 29, 2018)

Dav25 said:


> I have used a braun toothbrush charger for the last 3 yrs and works like a charm. You have to find the sweet spot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking at this picture I would say that the watch is roughly aligned around the same area that I use on my watch, but I found better results charging my watch from the front rather than the back. My only reasons were that a) it seemed to me to work better and b) the Original Seiko supplied charger has the watches positioned face down on the charging plate.

However, whatever works, Works! What I will say is that the toothbrush charging method is not rapid charging in any way, shape or form! But I have been using it for nearly two years and just two or three nights a week keeps my Kinetic reading fully charged when I push the button.

Best regards,
Jim


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## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

Its been mentioned on this thread before but worth mentioning again.

Get a killowat adaptor and plug your induction charger into it.
When you get a charging position the watts goes up on the indicator.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

I've tried six different watch orientations over the past few days and no love from the charger. No heat either. Kill-a-watt is on order, but that will only shorten the trial cycle, true? The video below shows a Kinetic watch with a dead second hand start within seconds of being on an inductive charger in a position I've tried several times.






Again, my SBCZ005 charges, runs, and keeps time just fine when wound by hand using the swinging motion or worn on the wrist. To me, that confirms that the charging coil is working properly. Seems unlikely that I bought two straight charger duds, but Occam would suggest that is what has happened.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

I've tried six different watch orientations over the past few days and no love from the charger. No heat either. Kill-a-watt is on order, but that will only shorten the trial cycle, true? The video below shows a Kinetic watch with a dead second hand start within seconds of being on an inductive charger in a position I've tried several times.






Again, my SBCZ005 charges, runs, and keeps time just fine when wound by hand using the swinging motion or worn on the wrist. To me, that confirms that the charging coil is working properly. Seems unlikely that I bought two straight charger duds, but Occam would suggest that is what has happened.


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## waterdude (Apr 19, 2012)

Mine was dead and began the two second tick as soon as I sat it on the charger. It was ticking normally "one second" after about and hour or so.

No clue what's up with yours dude 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## filcord (Sep 12, 2014)

ObiWonWD40 said:


> Looking at this picture I would say that the watch is roughly aligned around the same area that I use on my watch, but I found better results charging my watch from the front rather than the back. My only reasons were that a) it seemed to me to work better and b) the Original Seiko supplied charger has the watches positioned face down on the charging plate.
> 
> .... just two or three nights a week keeps my Kinetic reading fully charged when I push the button.
> 
> ...


I use the charger about once in six months, for a couple of days. Otherwise my SUN043 basically charges on my fifteen minute walk, say five days a week.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

"Kill-a-watt is on order, but that will only shorten the trial cycle, true?"

If by trial you mean the trial and error positioning then yes.
But until you get it right and leave it charging over night its hard to come to any conclusions.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

Many, perhaps 8, of the positions I've tried have been overnight runs. Seems to me that if the position is right, it will go from nothing to second skipping in a minute or two at most. If there is no motion from the second hand in a minute or two, the coils aren't aligned. Rather frustrating.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

So my new Kill-a-watt arrived today. As expected, 0.00 watts in every position I've tried. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it should read above zero watts if the Kinetic coil is pulling any sort of energy at all from the Philips HX9100 base, right?


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

It still seems hard to believe that I have bought two inductive charging bases and both are bad. They are very simple devices and do not appear prone to failure. While Occam would certainly suggest that is the problem, I think it's worth ruling out a design conflict with the titanium case and rotor of the SBCZ005 Gray Ghost.

I did some reading on how Seiko's Kinetic system generates a current and while the internet is rich with explanations of how Kinetic watches work on a macro level, I struck out completely on the granular level of exactly how the coil generates electricity. As the rotor rotates and accelerates its rotation through successive reduction gears, what exactly does it move with all that energy? Does the gearing move a magnet back and forth over the Kinetic coil at 7 o'clock? That's my guess.








And whether it's that or some other physics magic, using an inductive charger to charge a Kinetic watch is not as simple as using an inductive coil to charge a toothbrush or iPhone designed for inductive charging. Suffice it to say that the coils in the HX9100 and SBCZ005 or any other Seiko Kinetic model are quite different and not made for one another. This diagram appears to represent the situation.







So it looks like having the orientation of the coils aligned is important. That would explain two things. First, why many successful charging cases have the watch sitting upright in the base. And second, why some successful cases observe far slower charging times. The Kinetic coil is long and thin and sits almost vertical in the watch between 7:30 and 11:00. At least on the 5M63 movement. Sitting upright in the Philips base would orient the coils as indicated in the diagram above. Other orientations may work, but the efficiency of the induction cell is reduced and the charging is slower. That all makes sense to me.

So why won't my Grey Ghost charge? Most of the successful charging cases I have read about feature models with stainless cases. The Ghost is titanium. What if the titanium is a better magnetic shield than stainless steel? Magnetic shielding is a mature industry. Basically you can use metals to interrupt or shield electromagnetic fields as shown in this diagram.









Unfortunately, titanium is not a good metal for magnetic shielding; not even in the top 5. I'm way out of my expertise here, but I don't think the titanium construction of the SBCZ005 has anything to do with it. I happen to have another titanium Seiko Kinetic, and when put on the HX9100, my SBDD003 immediately pulled 1.2 watts on the Kill-a-watt. I'm at a loss, folks.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

FINALLY! Adding the Kill-a-watt was the trick. Not sure I ever would have found the right orientation without it. And looking at the 5M63 movement, I'm still not sure why it is charging in that orientation. Glad to see though. Both watch and base are warm. The HX9100 is rated for 1.05 watts and the Kill-a-watt reads 1.2 watts, so that's about all it will do. It was completely dead, as in no second hand movement, when I got it to pull 1.2 watts. The second hand started skipping seconds almost immediately, and after 16 hours on the charging base the indicator sweeps to 5 seconds. This is a 6 month power reserve movement, so I suspect it will take a while to reach full charge.


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## waterdude (Apr 19, 2012)

Persistence paying off!! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trott3r (Jun 26, 2013)

Glad you got it sorted.

Checked my kilowatt and it went from 1,2 watts switch pressed on imageo charger to 1.4 watts when charging the watch.
But the watch is fully charged at 7 days so maybe the 0.2 watts is lower than what might be expected as it already is topped off.


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

Congrats on getting your watch to start charging "HeadedToTexas", and thanks for reporting back. Again, the knowledge base increases. :-!


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)




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## canonken (Jan 13, 2018)

Hmmm. I have the same Kill A Watt, and my two Sonicare chargers don't even register 1 watt when plugged in and charging the toothbrush, and it is only when going over to amps (read to the hundredth place) I get 0.01

Maybe I actually need a less-efficient charger I can see is working or not.

Or I will take it to the lab at work and use something REALLY sensitive to measure. Because nothing says working hard like using test equipment and personnel for charging your watch


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

The Kill-A-Watt definitely helped troubleshoot the charging situation on the Gray Ghost, but it isn't helping figure out the Direct Drive. My SBDD003 pulls 1.2 watts according to the Kill-A-Watt and gets warm to the touch, but the power reserve meter does not increase. Winding with the direct drive and swinging the watch to manually spin the rotor both charge the battery, but the inductive base won't.

I've tried a lot of positions and will keep trying more, but is there something about the Direct Drive design that would use energy from the inductive charger without charging the battery?


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

HeadedToTexas said:


> The Kill-A-Watt definitely helped troubleshoot the charging situation on the Gray Ghost, but it isn't helping figure out the Direct Drive. My SBDD003 pulls 1.2 watts according to the Kill-A-Watt and gets warm to the touch, but the power reserve meter does not increase. Winding with the direct drive and swinging the watch to manually spin the rotor both charge the battery, but the inductive base won't.
> 
> I've tried a lot of positions and will keep trying more, but is there something about the Direct Drive design that would use energy from the inductive charger without charging the battery?
> View attachment 14078051


I think the SBDD is antimagnetic or something but if it draws watts then maybe it could be the cell at fault, I believe it uses a very different cell than the rest of the kinetics.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

georgefl74 said:


> I think the SBDD is antimagnetic or something but if it draws watts then maybe it could be the cell at fault, I believe it uses a very different cell than the rest of the kinetics.


The battery appears to work properly; that is, it charges at a seemingly normal rate with wear and holds a charge for approximately the right duration. I get about 3 weeks of run from a "full" charge to the one week mark on the charge reserve indicator. That said, the SBDD003 is definitely a different beast on the inside.









Not sure what that extra coil does. According to the Kill-A-Watt, something is using energy from the inductive charger. Getting it in the right orientation always seems to be the key with Kinetic movements, but this one may have additional challenges.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

georgefl74 said:


> I think the SBDD is antimagnetic or something but if it draws watts then maybe it could be the cell at fault, I believe it uses a very different cell than the rest of the kinetics.


The battery appears to work properly; that is, it charges at a seemingly normal rate with wear and holds a charge for approximately the right duration. I get about 3 weeks of run from a "full" charge to the one week mark on the charge reserve indicator. That said, the SBDD003 is definitely a different beast on the inside.

View attachment 14085689


Not sure what that extra coil does. According to the Kill-A-Watt, something is using energy from the inductive charger. Getting it in the right orientation always seems to be the key with Kinetic movements, but this one may have additional challenges.


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

HeadedToTexas said:


> The battery appears to work properly; that is, it charges at a seemingly normal rate with wear and holds a charge for approximately the right duration. I get about 3 weeks of run from a "full" charge to the one week mark on the charge reserve indicator. That said, the SBDD003 is definitely a different beast on the inside.
> 
> View attachment 14085689
> 
> ...


The power reserve indicator consumes a tiny amount of power in order to measure the reserve. But I recall the standard Seiko charger does have a position for a 5D caliber. It *should* charge but it doesn't. That's why I thought it may be antimagnetic. Maybe another owner of a Direct Drive watch could help us with that.


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## Riceinwa (Apr 24, 2019)

Using some of the ideas from this forum thread, I used the base charger from a Braun Triumph Professional Care 9000 battery powered toothbrush. Folding the band such that it feeds through the base charger, the "sweet spot" was automatic and it immediately began to charge. I took pictures. (Not sure this is working...)













View attachment 14092511








Charger - Whole toothbrush (they sell these at WallyWorld - In the charger sitting on toothbrush cup - Six o'clock down

Took about 36 hours to charge from dead to full charge....

Thanks to the Forum!  :-!


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

This orientation works best for charging the watches in an electrical candle charger, after some experimentation.


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## Le_Zouave (Aug 27, 2018)

I bought the Philips 3 candlelight imageo, used for 10EUR. Not only the candle work perfectly, but I finally found the right position for my two kinetics. I searched for the induction charger alone and I got a complete set for cheap.


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## diynor_77 (May 22, 2019)

This is what helped me to figure out and make it work with my SUN065P1:

- Reading the next blog and its pictures:
https://seikoparts.wordpress.com/20...x-gmt-kinetic-tuna-air-diver-200m-aka-sun019/

- Understanding that is the charging coil of the movement what it actually needs to be placed centered on the center of the induction charger coils - not the rechargable battery.

In my case, the movement is only Ø27mm (Seiko 5m85 movement) and the charging coil is placed almost on the opposite side to the stem/crown. Finally, because of the bulkiness of the case: the charging coil is closer to the back than the front of the watch.

Hope this helps some of you to get it right - it works like a charm with a Braun toothbrush charger positioned upside down ( as shown in the pictures from the link above).


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

*An alternative to induction chargers for Seiko Kinetic models*

While my Philips HX9100 induction charging base does a great job charging my SBCZ005 Gray Ghost, I have given up trying to get it to charge my SBDD003. After trying dozens of positions, including many that produced 1.0-1.3 watts on my Kill-a-watt meter, I've concluded that the power reserve coil "wastes" all the energy the inductive coil tries to give the battery. Even if I found the perfect position, finding it month after month feels all but impossible without something like the Kill-a-watt to guide it into position. Frustrating.

Don't want to sell the watch though, so I turned to non-inductive alternatives. Your typical winder that works on traditional automatic movements does not work with Kinetic because the rotor never reaches a velocity high enough to generate enough volts to add charge to the battery. Slow if fine for winding a spring, but they simply rotate too slowly to generate an electrical current. There is a British outfit called Kinetic Watch Winders UK makes a winder that uses gravity to produce enough velocity. Smart idea. Nearly bought one for like $75, but then I came across this video.






Basically the author shows how he Dremels off a few teeth on the coupling between the winder motor and the watch mount. This allows the motor to rotate the watch up to its point of highest potential energy, then swing freely down to its lowest point. Watch the video at 0:43 and you'll see it in action. Removing a few teeth looks easy.

Next I saw this modest single winder on a British site called Time Tutelary. Looks familiar. Nearly bought one for $36. Perhaps Kinetic Watch Winders UK and Time Tutelary both buy the same winder and KWW charges $39 to Dremel a few teeth off the coupling? KWW shows the same all-important motion in this accompanying video.






Question is, do all winders use the same basic design? Can you buy a cheapo from China for $30 and spend a few minutes with a Dremel to accomplish the same thing?


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

I just use an old vinyl platter for my SBDD003. Set it to 45rpm, tape the watch vertical onto the platter, crown up, put the platter against a wall at a 45 degree angle. Press ON. After 8 hours you're charged to a month's worth.


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## HeadedToTexas (Feb 24, 2018)

I can imagine that every Kinetic owner has resorted to one of the induction chargers to keep their watches charged; I have one and it works great. Except on my SBDD003, that is. Am I really the only Direct Drive owner looking for a way to keep the watch charged between wearings?


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## dscustoms (Sep 8, 2016)

It’s a pretty ridiculous problem. I’m thinking about selling my last kinetic because it’s dumb, even though I love the watch (SUN043) 
Solar is the solution. Kinetic is a waste of time. I have too many watches and I have to pay special attention to this one to make sure I put it in the candle charger I had to buy because of the watch &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834; 

I’d buy a new movement for it (quartz or auto) if I could find one with matching size.


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## filcord (Sep 12, 2014)

I have the sun043 as well, and it's been well over a year since I last resorted to the Braun charger. I use the watch on my intermittent half hour exercise walk. Maybe three days a week since June because it's the monsoon season in india. It's always remained on full charge.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

HeadedToTexas said:


> I can imagine that every Kinetic owner has resorted to one of the induction chargers to keep their watches charged; I have one and it works great. Except on my SBDD003, that is. _Am I really the only Direct Drive owner_ looking for a way to keep the watch charged between wearings?


I own a "Seiko Premier Kinetic Direct Drive SRG013P" which I have posted about previously. I can not get it to "charge" via any of my induction chargers, so I keep it topped up with my "Record Player - Watch Winder".









These players are so cheap to buy now days, so why not try one out. I made a mount out of some scrap wood where I attach the watch. It works on all versions of "Kinetic".


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## filcord (Sep 12, 2014)

Pete_JBK said:


> I own a "Seiko Premier Kinetic Direct Drive SRG013P" which I have posted about previously. I can not get it to "charge" via any of my induction chargers, so I keep it topped up with my "Record Player - Watch Winder".
> 
> View attachment 14547181
> 
> ...


So it has an eccentric rotation? At 33&1/3 rpm?

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## arogle1stus (May 23, 2013)

WUSers:
I never had much luck keeping the 3 Seiko Kinetics charged.
Said adios to kinetics till a better means could be devised to
to keep em charged. Maybe a means has been invented?

X Traindriver Art


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## berni29 (Sep 8, 2007)

Hi

I bought an MTM watch which cane with this induction charger. Works well and here is a kinetic on it.










The MTM charges face up. And the kinetic face down.

And yes, kinetics are a pain. Some great watches though.

Berni

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pete_JBK (Nov 27, 2014)

filcord said:


> So it has an eccentric rotation? At 33&1/3 rpm?
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


It is set at 45 RPM. I have tried it at 33 RPM but didn't seem to make much difference. "an eccentric rotation", yes, but only a little. The Player is slightly tilted by leaning it back on "something". You can hear the Kinetic mechanism in the watch rotating when you adjust the tilt of the table just right, but it is not too fussy. I have been using this setup for about 4 years with the DD Kinetic.


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## Matcoman (Jul 8, 2015)

Good morning, just a thought how does an apple watch charge?and could you charge your kinetic watch on it? love these watches but what a pain


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## Matcoman (Jul 8, 2015)

so I just picked up a Dakota watch charger..we shall see how this works!


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## xjonx (Sep 17, 2018)

Matcoman said:


> so I just picked up a Dakota watch charger..we shall see how this works!


You must have gotten the last one in existence because the internet (yes the entire internet) says "sold out".

Going to give an Oral B charger ($10) a try.

P.S. Qi chargers don't work because there is circuitry in them that looks for a handshake from a phone when placed on the pad (in the charging field) then the phone reports its speed of charge back to the pad. Since the Seiko has no Qi handshake circuity on its end, the charging pad shuts off when there is no response. If the pad has an LED that indicates, off/charging/full charge then it won't work.


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## mic736 (Jan 26, 2020)

Matcoman said:


> so I just picked up a Dakota watch charger..we shall see how this works!


Does your Dakota charger works well with your SEIKO?

For Seiko Kinetic working frequency is 1Khz. Do you know what is the working frequency of the Dakota charger?


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## sgtrobk.de (Feb 19, 2020)

Hello All,
Does anyone know if this will work with a SBCW003 5M45


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## georgefl74 (Jun 18, 2015)

Nope it won't


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## sgtrobk.de (Feb 19, 2020)

Thanks for the info


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## artdeg (May 19, 2017)

I just ordered an MTM charger from the company. Is putting the watch face down the correct way to charge my Seiko kinetic?
Thank you.


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## computerbastard (Jul 8, 2020)

After trying many of the ideas in this thread, I finally found a really cheap, compact and easy solution. I have a Seiko AGS and have tried the toothbrush charger with mixed results - but not really satisfactory. I also found that knock-off braun chargers that can be had for $10 on Amazon are tricky to use and seem to burn out quickly.

My solution is this: Inductive Charging Set - 3.3V @ 500mA max

This link above is to an induction charger kit. It comes with a "source" and "receiver" coil. To charge the watch, you only need the source coil, but they come as a kit. Price $9.95. The coil with the small board is the "source". To use, buy the kit, and one of these:









Female DC Power adapter - 2.1mm jack to screw terminal block


If you need to connect a DC power wall wart to a board that doesn't have a DC jack - this adapter will come in very handy! There is a 2.1mm DC jack on one end, and a screw terminal block ...




www.adafruit.com





Cost $2. Hook the red wire from the source coil into the "+" terminal of the adapter above, and the black wire into the "-" terminal. Then get an AC-DC wall adapter. I had a variable output one that goes from 3V-12V. The source coil can be powered with anything between 9V-12V. Plug the female adapter into the male end of the wall adapter to power the coil. Now, find the sweet spot on your watch and place it so it overlaps the coil (picture provided below). The watch gets warm, and charges QUICKLY.

You can mount this in some sort of hobby box if desired. I will probably mount mine eventually in a plastic raspberry PI box.


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## grindaur (Feb 14, 2014)

Love the idea, I am going to order today, as I have been unable to get three different toothbrush chargers to work reliably.


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## xjonx (Sep 17, 2018)

computerbastard said:


> After trying many of the ideas in this thread, I finally found a really cheap, compact and easy solution. I have a Seiko AGS and have tried the toothbrush charger with mixed results - but not really satisfactory. I also found that knock-off braun chargers that can be had for $10 on Amazon are tricky to use and seem to burn out quickly.
> 
> My solution is this: Inductive Charging Set - 3.3V @ 500mA max
> 
> ...


Any report on how well this worked?


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

Just bought a Dakota REQ charger and it arrived yesterday. My 5M85 Sportura GMT has been on it for 24 hours now. Started out at 5 seconds yesterday with no telling how much was left before double-ticking. Now it's up to 10 seconds - a feat that required many hundreds of twirls in the past - and it's not even warm. I'm going to see how long it takes to get to 20, and if it's possible to ultimately get it back up to 30, which it hasn't seen since it was new, just over two years ago (it was made in 2016, two years before that, but came to me fully charged). Charging stand photo is Dakota's with an REQ on it. The Sportura is sitting on it just as they have done with an REQ. Nothing special to show there. This may not be the optimal charging position for the Seiko; I've not experimented with that and won't do so for now. Testing the charge level will continue daily as I expect it will take some days if this is completely successful.

I want to avoid changing the battery if at all possible. It costs much more than a normal quartz battery change for my watchmaker to do it. I could do it myself, but it requires taking the charging rotor and a wheel (gear) off to get to the battery - something I'd like to avoid because it's much riskier than even an 8F/4F Perpetual battery change (I've done several of those - very, very easy to kill the irreplaceable movement). Movement in these are very expensive to repair or replace. My assessment thus far is it simply needs charging, something it hasn't had from being worn very infrequently.

I've also got a 7D48 Perpetual Le Grand Sport Kinetic Auto Relay, also bought in 2018, but it was NOS, made in 2013, three years before the GMT. It goes to sleep for months at a time, and hasn't been as much a PITA, but it still requires hundreds of twirls periodically. It's going onto the charger next when I successfully get the GMT fully charged. It only has a double-tick warning with nothing to indicate intermediate state of charge.

*Additional notes:*
I've been through most of this very long thread and have seen the same question regarding phone chargers, smartwatch chargers, game box controller pad chargers, and other Qi technology chargers. *None of these Qi handshake technology chargers work with any Seiko Kinetic movement.* They require a handshake with the device to detect its presence and whether it's fully charged. When the device is fully charged, another handshake occurs between the device and charger to indicate the device is fully charged, and to shut down the induction charging. This is how the charging pad for a pair of my Wii controllers works.


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

artdeg said:


> I just ordered an MTM charger from the company. Is putting the watch face down the correct way to charge my Seiko kinetic?
> Thank you.


If that's the same as the Dakota Watch REQ charger, it can work. Face down shouldn't be required. What is important is the position of the Sieko watch's charging coil with respect to the center of the charging stand. There is "sweet spot" location that varies by watch movement as seen by the various orientations marked on the Seiko charger decal which has its ferrite coil off-center. Couldn't find it for my 5M85 GMT but didn't experiment much. I did try it with my 7D48 Auto Relay Perpetual sitting dial up centered on it, and it immediately brought the watch out of hibernation when I plugged it in That movement has no button to push or other dial indication of battery charge. The induction between charger and 7D48 is working but whether it's charging efficiently is unknown. I've ordered a Kill A Watt inline power usage analyzer to find the sweet spots for each. The charger only uses 1-2 Watts when charging a watch, but near zero when it's not. Should have it early next week.

In another experiment, the double-ticking 5M85 that I've never been able to get above 5 seconds for years now, demonstrated its battery is still decent. Got a Braun 4728 toothbrush charger for a few dollars on ePrey and got it working with the 5M85 by inverting the charger and placing the watch on the charger bottom to avoid dealing with the post - as one other individual did with the same charger in a prior posting. Dial up worked. In under an hour, the double-ticking ended.








In several days it was up to 30 seconds (6 months charge). Took it off and over 12 hours later it is still showing 30 seconds charge status. Letting it run now and will continue to check every day to see if it's still 30 seconds. It's been years since it was up to 30 seconds. Some toothbrush chargers work better than others. Braun has changed its charging system over the years. They're not interchangeable. I was beginning to think the 5M85 might need a new battery as hand twirling it could get it up to 10 seconds temporarily and a massive amount of over 5000 spins on one occasion got it up to 20 seconds temporarily. It would always drop back down quickly to 5 seconds again. It tells me that attempting to rapidly charge it mechanically with maniacal whirling dervish twirling does not work well - that it cannot accept a highly accelerated charge from the mechanical rotor system - the rate of charge from it must have some limitations. The lateral forces from very rapidly spinning the rotor around is undoubtedly hard on the rotor's spindle and bearings. If this charge holds, I'll be very pleased it doesn't require battery replacement, which requires removing the rotor and the wheel under it, plus the battery cover, all of which entail some very tiny screws.

More on this will be forthcoming as I refine what I'm doing with the Dakota Watch REQ charger and Braun 4728 charger. Had an opportunity to buy a Seiko charger for $300 plus additional shipping. Would have brought the total to about $350 which is far too much for two kinetics. Not worth the cost. Also found an inductive tea light set but it was over $100 after shipping was added. After I find the sweet spot on the Braun 4728 I'll build a small stand for it.


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## artdeg (May 19, 2017)

I purchased the MTM charger several months ago for my two Seiko kinetic watches. With some trial and error I am glad to report both watches are fully charged. I place them on the charger face up so the coils are off of center. 


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

artdeg said:


> I purchased the MTM charger several months ago for my two Seiko kinetic watches. With some trial and error I am glad to report both watches are fully charged. I place them on the charger face up so the coils are off of center.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm glad you were able to find some working positions on the Dakota charger. Its induction coil is centered for the watches it was designed for. The coils in the Seiko kinetics are in different locations depending on the movement family. If the crown is at the three, the generator coil in the 5Mxx movement family is on a diagonal from the 7 to the 10, whereas the generator coil in the 7Dxx movement family is on a diagonal from the 12 to the 2. If you look at the top of the Seiko charger, which has its induction coil off-center, you'll see crown orientations for each movement family. Movement caliber is on the dial and back of every Seiko. Watches are placed face down on the Seiko charger to avoid having to remove or disassemble metal bracelets. This is undoubtedly why some have success with some induction chargers and others do not. The generator coil has to be immersed in the electromagnetic flux from the charger's induction coil.








The Braun 4728 toothbrush charger was a smashing success with the 5M85 Sportura GMT. More on that in a separate update posting on my efforts.


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

Update on Post #553

It's been six days since I stopped charging the 5M85 Sportura GMT. It's still rolling to 30 seconds which translates to 6+ months of charge. In summary, the charge from several days on the inverted Braun 4728 with its coil up against the back of the Seiko is holding. I'm declaring the battery good. I'm no longer concerned that I might need to replace it.








I will be building a small wood stand for the inverted charger so that the watch can be placed on it similar to the Dakota REQ charger. In the meantime I'm still waiting on the Kill-A-Watt so I can optimize the position of the Le Grande Sport and Sportura GMT on the Dakota REQ, and on this charger. I anticipate I will have found the optimal or nearly optimal position for the GMT on the inverted Braun 4728.


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## Dinub2020 (Oct 8, 2020)

ptwang said:


> Okay, I've some news to report. I bought a charging stand from the Dakota Watch Company (google Dakota Watch REQ charging stand and you'll find the product) which I believe is made by Ricoh Elemex Corp--less than $30 shipped. Rumor has it, this is the same charger for the MTM special ops line of watches. I placed my Seiko SKH060 (5m42, original capacitor replaced with Maxell li-on battery) on it the way you would normally charge the Dakota line of watches (case face up). After 2 hours, I checked the indicator and got no improvements. I turned the Seiko 180 degree and tried again--still nothing. Then I opened the charging stand, and saw that the coil was located at the dead center. This time I moved the Seiko off center slightly so that one of the coils in the watch would lie across the center of the charger. 5 minutes later, bingo! The indicator moved from 20 unit to 30. I don't know how much the battery is charged within that time, since the indicator was designed for the original capacitor (holds 7-14 days worth of power), not the new rechargeable battery (6 months on full), but it's certainly doing something. I think I'll leave the watch on the charger overnight. Hopefully, Seiko has some kind of over-charging prevention mechanism. I don't know if there's any risk to this experiment. I just thought I'd share my observations. YMMV.


Regarding the Seiko KINETIC "capacitors" I think the wrong term is used by SEIKO. It is not an electric capacitor proper, but Irechargeable LiIon battery.


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

Dinub2020 said:


> Regarding the Seiko KINETIC "capacitors" I think the wrong term is used by SEIKO. It is not an electric capacitor proper, but Irechargeable LiIon battery.


Seiko originally used capacitors when the Kinetic was first introduced. They would power some of the watch models a few days when fully charged, which drove those with collections that didn't wear them daily crazy. In addition, the sedentary that didn't have a lot of physical motion might not wear the watch for a weekend and then find it stopped by Monday morning, having to spin it around hundreds of times to get the charge up. They also had some issues with capacitors. It resulted in Seiko replacing them with Li-ion, including making Li-ion cells to replace the capacitors in those movements that were originally made with them. It's not as simple as replacing a battery in a (most) normal quartz though. Requires removing the rotor, typically a wheel (aka gear) and then some extremely minuscule screws plus an insulator. Not something for most to attempt doing unless they've worked on minuscule devices with jeweler's tools, a binocular loupe, and have a workspace that can capture minuscule screws that attempt to run off to join the dryer socks. It's really a job for a qualified watch repairer who has the tools, bench and experience. AFAIK, you cannot get replacement "capacitors" now unless someone has extremely old parts. All you can get are drop-in replacement Li-ion cells.


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

jlind said:


> Update on Post #553
> 
> It's been six days since I stopped charging the 5M85 Sportura GMT. It's still rolling to 30 seconds which translates to 6+ months of charge. In summary, the charge from several days on the inverted Braun 4728 with its coil up against the back of the Seiko is holding. I'm declaring the battery good. I'm no longer concerned that I might need to replace it.
> View attachment 15520353
> ...


Update on post #556. I'm declaring victory on the 5M85 Sportura GMT with this Braun 4728 toothbrush charger used as shown. Periodic charge testing kept rolling the seconds hand 30 seconds indicating 6 months or more charge for nearly a month from 3rd week of October to 3rd week of November. If finally started rolling 20 seconds a couple days ago, indicating less than 6 months, but more than a month. Put it back on the toothbrush charger and in less than a day it was rolling 30 seconds again. I'm leaving it on a few days and will put it back into the watch box.

I've also got a 7D48 Perpetual Le Grand Sport Kinetic Auto Relay which charges on the Dakota REQ charger. Putting it on slowly so as not to wake it up from slumber, without the Dakota charger plugged in, wakes the watch up as soon as I plug in the charger indicating energy transfer. How quickly fast cannot be measured. I'm declaring victory with it as well. I may test it with the toothbrush charger to see what happens, but that's a low priority with the Dakoata REQ being able to charge it. The 7D48 charging coil is in a completely different location in the movement, aligned between the 2 and 12, compared to its 7-10 location in the 5M85 (with crown at 3 for both).


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## jajohn00 (Jul 4, 2019)

I have read and followed this thread for quite some time. I purchased a SUN065 new from a AD about a year ago. I love it. It works great and is fairly easy to keep charged even though it is in a 18 watch rotation.
Then I picked up a used SUN019 which I also love, but it is a impossible task to get it charged. It will plug along at 5 seconds charge. In can get it up to 20 seconds after shaking it for several minutes. But it soon drops back to 5. I have worn it for up to 2 weeks and even then it will not get above 10. 
So after reading about the success of the Dakota charger I bought one. I also picked up a Kill A Watt. 
I have tried every conceivable configuration to get it to charge these watches. Nothing works. Even leaving it on the charger for a week or more. Nothing. On either watch. The Kill A Watt reads 1.8 watts with the charger plugged in. When I put a watch on it the reading goes up to 2.4 watts The watch even gets slightly warm. No charging is happening.
I am just about to sell the SUN019 or send it into Seiko to have a new "battery" installed.

Anyone ever had success charging these watches?























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## cjbiker (Feb 14, 2015)

jlind said:


> Update on Post #553
> 
> It's been six days since I stopped charging the 5M85 Sportura GMT. It's still rolling to 30 seconds which translates to 6+ months of charge. In summary, the charge from several days on the inverted Braun 4728 with its coil up against the back of the Seiko is holding. I'm declaring the battery good. I'm no longer concerned that I might need to replace it.
> View attachment 15520353
> ...


Thanks for sharing the results of your experiments!

I have a Seiko BFK that I've owned for 5 years. If I wear it daily, it shows 30 seconds on the power reserve. If I don't wear it for a day or two, it drops down to 20 seconds. Once, when I didn't wear it for a week, it dropped to 10 seconds. Wanting to give the rest of my collection as much love, I picked up a Braun 4728 from eBay, after reading about the success you have had. It arrived yesterday. My BFK was showing 20 seconds on the PR. I placed it on the charger the way you show your GMT. After a couple hours, the watch and charger were not warm, and the PR was still showing 20 secs. I turned the watch around so the crown was pointing toward the power cord, and within a few minutes, not the watch and charger were a little warm to the touch. Aha! So, I left it overnight, sure that I'd see 30 secs when I pushed the button. When I checked it in the morning, it was still a little warm, but the PR was now only showing 10 seconds! I can't believe it discharged like that. It's never dropped from 20 to 10 overnight. I can't even imagine how an inductive charger would discharge the battery. I wonder if the heat did it? After 10 minutes of swinging the watch, it's showing 30 secs again.

Anyone else ever have a charger actually discharge thier Kinetic?


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

cjbiker said:


> Thanks for sharing the results of your experiments!
> 
> I have a Seiko BFK that I've owned for 5 years. If I wear it daily, it shows 30 seconds on the power reserve. If I don't wear it for a day or two, it drops down to 20 seconds. Once, when I didn't wear it for a week, it dropped to 10 seconds. Wanting to give the rest of my collection as much love, I picked up a Braun 4728 from eBay, after reading about the success you have had. It arrived yesterday. My BFK was showing 20 seconds on the PR. I placed it on the charger the way you show your GMT. After a couple hours, the watch and charger were not warm, and the PR was still showing 20 secs. I turned the watch around so the crown was pointing toward the power cord, and within a few minutes, not the watch and charger were a little warm to the touch. Aha! So, I left it overnight, sure that I'd see 30 secs when I pushed the button. When I checked it in the morning, it was still a little warm, but the PR was now only showing 10 seconds! I can't believe it discharged like that. It's never dropped from 20 to 10 overnight. I can't even imagine how an inductive charger would discharge the battery. I wonder if the heat did it? After 10 minutes of swinging the watch, it's showing 30 secs again.
> 
> Anyone else ever have a charger actually discharge thier Kinetic?


The 5M movement inside your BFK is the same family as in the GMT I showed in the photo. Kinetic generator coil is positioned approximately between the 7 and 10 on the watch dial. You cannot expect the toothbrush charger to charge in a couple hours. It won't. Nor will it get all that warm. This isn't a 3-hour zero to full Seiko rapid charger.* Position it as shown for my GMT and leave it there for a week to ten days.* Check it every day or so, but don't pull it off just because it's cranking to 30 seconds. This will help reform the rechargeable battery inside the watch which may have a bit of a partial charge memory. I put mine on it the first time for over a week. I had been having difficulty getting it to hold a charge manually swinging it around thousands of times. Could get it up to 20 seconds, but no farther, and it would drop back to 10 seconds after a day. After leaving it on the charger for over a week, it was not only 30 seconds, it would hold a charge again, taking about a month without wearing it at all to drop back to 20 seconds. I just put my GMT on the toothbrush charger again, a month after the last charge as expected. It was cranking to 30 seconds after about 4 hours. Left it on the charger for 12 hours. My Auto Relay is on it now.

John


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## jlind (Jan 16, 2017)

*Another Update on Post #553
Homemade Charging Stand*










I procured the wall mount version of the Braun 4728 toothbrush charger including the wall mounting bracket which was essential to building my charging stand (many used ones are missing that).


















The stand is made of 1/2" birch veneer cabinet grade plywood, a piece of which I had left over from making a replacement cabinet door. Cut two 4" x 1-3/4" pieces off for the stand and assembled them into an "L" shape using a couple short, small 1-1/2" deck type wood screws. Pre-assembled the two wood pieces to get them perfectly square with each other (drilling pilot holes with them clamped to around a square helps). Made countersinks with a 3/8" drill bit. Disassembled them and mounted the charger bracket upside down at the top of the vertical piece with 6-32 machine screws, cut to length, and also countersunk. The flanges around the bracket mounting holes will trap the 6-32 hex nuts and prevent them from spinning. Put the toothbrush charger on it - inverted - and reassembled the two pieces of plywood, this time with a bit of glue in addition to the screws.










A look at the bottom of the charger shows the location of its induction coil in the raised part opposite the toothbrush post. I found the position of the watch over it isn't critical. Some movement about 3/16" left or right of center may find the most efficient sweet spot, depending on movement and where its generator coil is located.










If the toothbrush charger slides down its bracket, it won't fall off and you can either put something under it to block it up, or just leave it. The watch is plenty elevated to prevent the bracelet from dragging. The 5M movement GMT was ready for charging after a month since its last charge, and it hadn't been worn. Started showing 20 seconds a couple days ago. That was the motivation to finish making the stand. Already had the pieces cut and screw hardware collected together. Just needed to drill holes and put it all together. The 5M GMT was back up to 30 seconds in about 4 hours (I checked every hour), and I left it on for about 12 hours.










The other Kinetic, a 7D Auto Relay Perpetual, is on the stand now. It doesn't have a charge level indicator other than the dreaded 2-second ticking just before its charge dies. I'm taking its cue for charging from the level the 5M shows.










Right now it appears that 12 hours per month is more than enough to keep them both topped off. From completely dead would obviously take longer. If a battery doesn't seem to be holding a charge very well, leaving it on the charger for two or three weeks could rejuvenate it and break down its partial charge memory. The 5M GMT was suffering that and a couple weeks on the charger did the trick several months ago.

John


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## Alfy001 (Jan 31, 2019)

Great idea for the mounting stand out of a Braun toothbrush charger! Thanks for sharing it.


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## cjbiker (Feb 14, 2015)

jlind said:


> The 5M movement inside your BFK is the same family as in the GMT I showed in the photo. Kinetic generator coil is positioned approximately between the 7 and 10 on the watch dial. You cannot expect the toothbrush charger to charge in a couple hours. It won't. Nor will it get all that warm. This isn't a 3-hour zero to full Seiko rapid charger.* Position it as shown for my GMT and leave it there for a week to ten days.* Check it every day or so, but don't pull it off just because it's cranking to 30 seconds. This will help reform the rechargeable battery inside the watch which may have a bit of a partial charge memory. I put mine on it the first time for over a week. I had been having difficulty getting it to hold a charge manually swinging it around thousands of times. Could get it up to 20 seconds, but no farther, and it would drop back to 10 seconds after a day. After leaving it on the charger for over a week, it was not only 30 seconds, it would hold a charge again, taking about a month without wearing it at all to drop back to 20 seconds. I just put my GMT on the toothbrush charger again, a month after the last charge as expected. It was cranking to 30 seconds after about 4 hours. Left it on the charger for 12 hours. My Auto Relay is on it now.
> 
> John


Well, I put the BFK on the charger for two days, and it dropped from showing 20 seconds to 10 seconds. I don't know if it's the charger, or if the 5M62 is different then your GMT, but something isn't working.

Edit to add: after a few minutes of twirling, it was up to 20 seconds. Then I used my old fashioned toothbrush charger, AKA I put the watch on my right wrist and brushed my teeth. That brought it up to 30 seconds.


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## emptor (Nov 17, 2021)

Hi everyone, thanks for all the info on this site!!! I am having a few challenges induction charging my two 5D direct drive kinetics.

Firstly, I tried the two versions of the Braun 4728 charges in all different positions and didn't charge. There was no change in amps from idle on my readings either (using an energy meter from Kasa).

Then I read up about the Phillips HX9100 charger and got one of those. I immediately had some success registering from 0 amps in idle to 1.6a when I put the watches in certain positions.

However, with both watches, no matter what positions I've tried (And I've tried many different positions haha), it continues draining to zero on the reading on the face, even though the amp current drawing is ok (goes from 0 amps to 1.4a to 1.65a depending on position).

Interesting thing is, the watch will keep ticking when at 0 on the face reading, so the induction is providing power to something. But at zero reading on the watch, as soon as I take it off the HX9100, it will stop immediately.

I've even tried charging with the crown pulled out to reduce power draw but doesn't work either.

I believe the 5D and 7D (I have one of these too) have the generating coil between 12 and 2 on the dial. There's also two hour, minute, second coils too. Can they be absorbing the induction?

Many thanks in advance, hope to solve this one.


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## jajohn00 (Jul 4, 2019)

Sooo... I see the search continues. LOL
My last post here was about a year ago. Just a few posts up the row.
I read every post in this thread I swear. I bought and built about everything suggested. 
I did have success getting my SUN019 charged with the Phillips silver bowl charger. Works great...when you get it balanced just right. I found nothing that would work on my SUN065, which I love. 
I wish I would have bought the Seiko chargers when you could get them for $250. Now I see them around $600. 
I just today took delivery of a Kinetic rotational winder made in Australia. I bought it on eBay. I have it loaded. It looks promising. I will let you know what I think of it in a few days. If it works as promised I might even consider buying another Kinetic. Maybe.























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## emptor (Nov 17, 2021)

I don't think I'm going tonhave success with the HX9100. Tried so many positions, draws current, gets warm but doesn't charge. At most, it keeps it ticking on no charge.

Can you tell me more or send a link on this kinetic winder? I'm in Australia so localish.


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## mic736 (Jan 26, 2020)

Properly this watch winder is for mechanical watches. What is not suitable for Kinetics watches. For mechanics, a rotational movement is enough to wind the spring; for Kinetics, a faster wrist movement is needed, to engage a sufficient speed of drive the generator of current production.
I had tried by modifying a watch winder, from the high point, it was spinning in free fall, not driven by the motor. It didn't work too badly. But it had to work 18 hours a day to maintain the charge. I feared premature wear of the watch. I abandoned this principle.
I replaced it after the SEIKO charger. who is perfect


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## jajohn00 (Jul 4, 2019)

Ok. I understand the scepticism. But I took a roll of the dice and it appears to me that this thing is working. Not cheap, but I was tired of the pursuit. Like I said. I got the Phillips dish charger to work on one of my watches. The SUN019. The SUN065 is basicly the same watch and it would NOT work no matter what I did. 
I will attach pictures of the eBay ad. Ij hope it helps you find them. 
I put both of my Seiko kinetics in the thing Monday night. The SUN065 was barely charged reading 5 seconds. Thed SUN019 was reading 10 seconds on the power meter.
Both watches have gained a step up on the power reading. The thing rotates for an hour then rests for 3 hours and then runs for an hour. You follow the directions on how to load the watch a little off center. It rotates then releases. The watch swings like a pendulum a couple of times. Then the rotation catches again and repeats. About 8 swings a minute. 
That all I can tell you about it. I don't know these people. I don't sell the thing. I live in Boise Idaho USA. Couldn't be farther from "down under" LOL
I just wanted to report my experience.





































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## jajohn00 (Jul 4, 2019)

Here is a picture of thier website









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## jajohn00 (Jul 4, 2019)

Here is thier company address.
I hope this helps someone.










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## emptor (Nov 17, 2021)

Thanks so much. They are literally 8kms or under 6 miles from where i live. I might physically pick ot up.

Question though, you've had it running for 4 or 5 days and it's still not fully charged?


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## jajohn00 (Jul 4, 2019)

I have had it running for about a day. Found it unplugged this afternoon. Wife needed the outlet and didn't plug it back in. I suspect it will take a week to get it up to charge. Then should be easy to maintain. I will report back if I have any concerns or problems. 

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## emptor (Nov 17, 2021)

That's pretty good after a day then as that's really only 6 hours of movement. I'm planning on going there tomorrow to pick one update. I'll report back.

Even now, I'm still trying another position on the HX9100.....don't want to give up. lol


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## unixvova (Nov 28, 2021)

Did anyone tried Apple Watch chargers, or any of the wireless phone chargers, or even Power Share feature on Samsung phones?


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## emptor (Nov 17, 2021)

jajohn00 said:


> I have had it running for about a day. Found it unplugged this afternoon. Wife needed the outlet and didn't plug it back in. I suspect it will take a week to get it up to charge. Then should be easy to maintain. I will report back if I have any concerns or problems.


Hey there, I picked up my winder on Friday and have been charging it since. 2 1/2 days and it's well past a week of charge level. And this is with it running at 1/4 of the time (1 hour on, 3 hours off). Thanks so much for the info on the watch winder!!!!


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## emptor (Nov 17, 2021)

emptor said:


> Hey there, I picked up my winder on Friday and have been charging it since. 2 1/2 days and it's well past a week of charge level. And this is with it running at 1/4 of the time (1 hour on, 3 hours off). Thanks so much for the info on the watch winder!!!!


First watch fully charged!!!


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## jajohn00 (Jul 4, 2019)

Update. My watches were almost dead. I put them in the winder and even though they run every 4 hours I would occasionally turn it off and back on as I walked by. Might have sped up the charging a little. Anyway, just shy of 2 weeks both of my watches are reading fully charged. I love this thing. I will not be pursuing building or modifying gadgets to try to get my kinetics to charge. Now when I reach for one in my 20 watch rotation I know it will be ready to go. 
Thank you to all who have contributed to this post and provided more information on charging these watches than anywhere else on the web. I will be content with the good old mechanical solution.









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## emptor (Nov 17, 2021)

jajohn00 said:


> Update. My watches were almost dead. I put them in the winder and even though they run every 4 hours I would occasionally turn it off and back on as I walked by. Might have sped up the charging a little. Anyway, just shy of 2 weeks both of my watches are reading fully charged. I love this thing. I will not be pursuing building or modifying gadgets to try to get my kinetics to charge. Now when I reach for one in my 20 watch rotation I know it will be ready to go.
> Thank you to all who have contributed to this post and provided more information on charging these watches than anywhere else on the web. I will be content with the good old mechanical solution.
> 
> 
> ...


I thank you especially as my 2 watches are fully charged too. Mine took 4 days and another took 6 days. Mine are direct drive so only have 1 month reserve.

I've ordered 2 batteries to replace also to really refreshen them up!


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## birdshell (Jan 3, 2022)

grabbed an old 5m43-0b19 from my father a while ago
it had the power reserve button jammed (cleaned it from debris later at a watch workshop) and i couldn't check the battery without it, but after shaking for 5 mins straight a second hand barely moved for 30 seconds with 2s intervals and stopped.
tried 2 cradles from Braun toothbrushes, the one from a Triumph model (without a pole) worked the best. 
i have no power meter, only a high sensitive clamp meter, but it didnt do any good (looks like measurements depend on amount of metal placed above a charger's coils), i had to experiment with the best position.

i am not sure, but it seems that this watch already have a li-ion battery instead of a cap judging by 4 welding marks, so charging to 30s mark took lots of time, the part from 20 to 30 was the longest - 72h or so.


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## 32768 Hz (Feb 5, 2015)

Hey guys, please help me out if you have a minute or two:

I recently purchased my first Kinetic, a diver with a 5M23 movement and a newly replaced capacitor/battery. I also got a Braun toothbrush charger (the kind with the induction coil section that looks a bit like a toilet seat - see image below). I also have a power meter that allows me to see how many watts the charger's drawing. 

With the charger plugged in I read about 1.5 w. When the watch is placed "into" the charger, with 6:00 down (that appears to be the position that results in the highest increase in power) that goes up to about 2 w, so an increase of around 0.5 w. Is that in the same ballpark as what you've been getting? 

One thing that complicates the situation is that if I take a plain old metal soup spoon (I was playing around with this on my kitchen counter) and put it on the charger induction coil I can also get significant increase in the power draw, a bit above 2 w. That tells me that a simple increase in the power draw doesn't necessarily mean that you're charging anything.

Has anyone experimented with this too? My watch came to me fully charged, so maybe I just have to not wear it for a while, check the power reserve, then see if it takes a charge.

I'd appreciate any additional information you guys have to share.

Thanks.


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## birdshell (Jan 3, 2022)

32768 Hz said:


> Hey guys, please help me out if you have a minute or two:
> 
> I recently purchased my first Kinetic, a diver with a 5M23 movement and a newly replaced capacitor/battery. I also got a Braun toothbrush charger (the kind with the induction coil section that looks a bit like a toilet seat - see image below). I also have a power meter that allows me to see how many watts the charger's drawing.
> 
> ...


i have the same experience with this charger. just make sure the generator's coil is oriented vertically. charging li-ion from low to full will take several days


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## 32768 Hz (Feb 5, 2015)

birdshell said:


> i have the same experience with this charger. just make sure the generator's coil is oriented vertically. charging li-ion from low to full will take several days


Thanks for the info. 

If I ask another question:

Let's say a Kinetic (with a new battery, but not an "Auto Relay" model) is worn occasionally as part of a rotation, but not super often, and not often enough to keep it powered due to motion, how often would you recommend I charge it (by leaving it on the charger for a day or so)? Once a month? Twice?

TIA


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## bklake (Oct 12, 2014)

I use a charger meant for a flashlight. It was some cheap thing I found on amazon. The flashlight died quickly but I only wanted the induction charger. It takes about two days to charge my Kinetic. The watch got pretty warm during recharging. Warm enough that I removed it often to keep it cooler. 

I recently got the bright idea to look at the 5M42 technical guide to see where the charging coil was in the watch. The charging coil is basically on the opposite side of the crown. Just this week I placed the watch in the charger with the coil mostly in the charger ( 9 o'clock down). I was previously placing it 6 or 12 o'clock down. It stayed a lot cooler and charged from 5 sec to 30 seconds sweep in about 12-14 hours. It will be a few months before I need to charge it again so one test doesn't prove much but seemed to work better. 

My Kinetic is a dress watch and I just don't ever wear it enough to know how much wearing it takes to charge it fully with the new Li-ion cells.


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## tomchoy (Sep 27, 2016)

I tried the inductive charging kit as suggested by @computerbastard in post 549. It works great once you find the correct orientation of coil on the watch case. 1 hour of charging time to go from 20 to 30. Here's the orientation that worked for me:


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## netdoctored (3 mo ago)

Charged two 5M62 bodies that were totally dead with a HX9100 charger I picked up off Amazon. $36 for the charger. Each watch took 2 days of charging to get to 30 sec reserve. Now I can enjoy my 20 year old watches again!

The 5M62 had to sit in the charger as seen in the image below.










Thanks to everyone on the forum for sharing. This site saved me from getting rid of the watches or buying the Seiko charger.


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## windsmurf (Mar 26, 2019)

I was able to charge my Kinetic from 1 month reserve to 4-6 months reserve within a couple of hours on this $10 USB charger.
I did "mod" it a bit by breaking off the prong in the middle so that the watch can sit closer to the coil. I found out the "prong" is not just a stand for the toothbrush but conains a ferrite core to transfer magnetism to the toothbrush coil. It works better on a Kinetic watch with it cut off. 









Amazon.com: Electric Toothbrush Charger for Oral-B Series, USB Cable : Health & Household


Amazon.com: Electric Toothbrush Charger for Oral-B Series, USB Cable : Health & Household



www.amazon.com


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