# Better watch for the GS experience



## Psicodom (May 5, 2015)

If I were looking for 1 watch to represent the Grand Seiko wearing experience ( if that is a thing) , would you recommend a Spring drive diver or a high beat gmt?

(I’m thinking along the lines of Rolex being known for steel sports watches, AP for Royal Oaks, Pattek from complicated chronos, etc...)


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## JoeC (Jun 20, 2010)

Psicodom said:


> If I were looking for 1 watch to represent the Grand Seiko wearing experience ( if that is a thing) , would you recommend a Spring drive diver or a high beat gmt?
> 
> (I'm thinking along the lines of Rolex being known for steel sports watches, AP for Royal Oaks, Pattek from complicated chronos, etc...)


To me, nothing says GS like the Snowflake SBGA211. It is quite possibly the most sought after regular production GS.


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## ten13th (Nov 2, 2013)

Psicodom said:


> If I were looking for 1 watch to represent the Grand Seiko wearing experience ( if that is a thing) , would you recommend a Spring drive diver or a high beat gmt?
> 
> (I'm thinking along the lines of Rolex being known for steel sports watches, AP for Royal Oaks, Pattek from complicated chronos, etc...)


SBGA011/SBGA211, aka, Snowflake.










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## zuiko (May 17, 2016)

Do you want a sporty watch or dressy?

If dressy then SBGH201/5 high beats
If sporty diver then SBGH229/31 or (has 200m WR)SBGE201 for Spring Drive, SBGH255 high beat.

If you have no preference then Snowflake SBGA211

If you want to go high beat GMT then you have many choices new and pre-owned (obviously goes for all the above too).


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

Between a Spring Drive diver and Hi-Beat GMT, Hi-Beat GMT to me for sure.
But, I think for the signature GS experience, the Spring Drive movement gets the slight edge.

Obviously there is the beautiful Snowflake, but I personally think (as an owner of one myself) that the slight greyed hue and light weight of the titanium detracts from getting the full standard GS experience.

I would make the surprise nomination for the standard issue champagne dial spring drive SBGA201. This model oozes quality in person, and is a real eye-catcher on the wrist. They make the best champagne dial around, and it's one of GS's best. You get the lustre and quality feel and heft of stainless steel featuring zaratsu case flanks, mesmerizing Spring Drive sweep and accuracy, white sparkling hands and indices on an eye-catching backdrop, and the standard modern GS appearance.
Have a look at one in person. It might literally be too much beauty for your wrist, because it does shine, and it's not small. It's awesome to behold though.








Image off google search


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## NoSympathy (Jul 1, 2017)

Definitely the SBGA011/211. The snowflake dial is definitely one of the best that GS has to offer as well as the smoooooth Spring Drive. IMO, a close second would be the Peacock or the SBGJ231 boutique edition with the blue Iwate dial.


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## T1meout (Sep 27, 2013)

JoeC said:


> To me, nothing says GS like the Snowflake SBGA211. It is quite possibly the most sought after regular production GS.


....in the USA.

I'd suggest one of the high beat GMT's with their signature 44GS case design and matching intricate dial pattern.


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## jdmvette (Oct 10, 2008)

Mmmmm that GS snowflake is so nice!


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

How to forget...
2 new releases for this year could fit the bill really well.
SBGA373 and SBGA375 Spring Drives

They'll feature the GS favorite 44GS case design, and an awesome choice between the champagne and blue dials. Same champagne dial finish as SBGA201 (I'm assuming), but different hour markers and a blued seconds hand.

The blue dial version will feature satin finish on the hands and brushed/ribbed finished tops to the hour markers (colored/dark dialed GS generally do) rather than just polished. Really should have received a gold seconds hand too, but unfortunately did not.

https://www.grand-seiko.com/jp-ja/collections/SBGA373

https://www.grand-seiko.com/jp-ja/collections/SBGA375

I still think SBGA201 is a great option too.


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## De Wolfe (Jul 23, 2015)

Springs drive over high beat; because when it comes to high beat movements, there are a bunch out there, but spring drive? None I am aware off.

Also case/indices finishing, dial textures and colors, are a GS known thing.


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

This


















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## MLJinAK (Feb 14, 2015)

I second the champagne dial - just stunning. 

A limited edition speaks a lot to what GS is about. They've got a vast number of LE's in the world - most all of them beautiful.


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

bluedialer said:


> Between a Spring Drive diver and Hi-Beat GMT, Hi-Beat GMT to me for sure.
> But, I think for the signature GS experience, the Spring Drive movement gets the slight edge.
> 
> Obviously there is the beautiful Snowflake, but I personally think (as an owner of one myself) that the slight greyed hue and light weight of the titanium detracts from getting the full standard GS experience.
> ...


Now, see, I was all about the Snowflake -- I found an old post from _five years ago_ where I said that it'd be the GS I would buy -- but then I tried on the SBGA201's slightly smaller brother, the SBGA283. Doggone, that was a sparkly little watch. The Snowflake I tried the same day almost looked kinda flat after that.

Still, the Snowflake has enough dial texture that you can look closer and stay interested, but it doesn't jump out like the 201/283 champagne dials do, making it more of an intimate experience. Then there's the black SBGA203, which didn't seem to reflect any light at all, making its markers and hands pop out more than the others.

But, anyway, if you want one regular-production model that shows what makes Grand Seiko unique, then I'd say the Snowflake. High-polished titanium, microscopic detailing on the markers and hands, distinctive dial texture, and completely exclusive movement technology.


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## BostonWatcher (Jun 28, 2012)

The Snowflake is certainly the most unique GS, however, I chose the HB because I'm not a fan of titanium, or light weight watches, and, quasi mechanical movements over a pure mechanical...but that's me, and I love the SF dial.


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## Purple Hayz (Jan 21, 2015)

Hi-beat all the way.

The Spring Drive is a technological marvel, and the snowflake is among the most interesting dials ever slotted into a watch. But as brilliant a piece of engineering as SD is, I've never been able to shake the feeling that it's an answer to a question that no one really asked, namely: How about we make a movement thats less accurate than a regular quartz AND lacks the old school soul of a true mechanical?

A $200 Precisionist (not to mentions Seiko's excellent HAQ) is far more accurate than a Spring Drive, so it doesn't compare particularly well to other, far cheaper quartz regulated movements. And it's not a true mechanical movement without a "beating heart" (i.e. oscillator). Yes, it's a fascinating hybrid of the two most popular movement technologies, but it lacks the charm of one _and _the accuracy of the other.

I'd still buy a Spring Drive for the sheer awesomeness and audacity of it, but it wouldn't be my first choice, or recommendation, for a first GS.

The 9S8x series, by contrast, is traditional movement making _par excellence_. I've never tested a mechanical movement with a fixed balance, lever escapement, simple cock (vs. transverse bridge) and regular alloy hairspring that performs as well as the Grand Seiko hi-beat. My GS outperforms every Rolex we've ever tested (including my own), in spite of the latter's inherent technological advantages (full balance bridge, variable inertia oscillator, breguet overcoil, etc.). It is not only the quintessential GS experience, it is a watershed in pure mechanical movement engineering in general.

Just my .02


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## Erks (Dec 17, 2013)

imo has to be a spring drive, add the 5 piece bracelet to the mix and i think you're on to a winner.


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## Nom de Forum (Oct 17, 2012)

Purple Hayz said:


> > The Spring Drive is a technological marvel, and the snowflake is among the most interesting dials ever slotted into a watch. But as brilliant a piece of engineering as SD is, *I've never been able to shake the feeling that it's an answer to a question that no one really asked, namely: How about we make a movement thats less accurate than a regular quartz AND lacks the old school soul of a true mechanical?*
> 
> 
> I think you and others are probably assuming a question that was never asked rather than a question that was asked. The question that was probably asked "How do we make a mechanically powered watch that presents the most realistic (smooth continuous flow) of time by having a continuously moving second hand?"
> ...


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

I think you can't go wrong with any of the three.

For straightforward mechanicals, GS's is among the best in the world, having refined the lever movement about as good as you can expect without resorting to tourbillons and radical redesigns. And for quartz watches, you can count the number of currently-produced competitive movements on one hand, and few of those are presented in a refined style, either. And for Spring Drive... well, nobody else was able to do it, were they?

It's the same way with the case and dial finishing, too. You _can_ get something better, but to get there, you're usually adding more than double the price.


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## yankeexpress (Apr 7, 2013)

The deal breaker with the Spring Drive is that it can only be serviced In Japan. This means a periodic trip thru shipping overseas. 

The other service centers can service a hi-beat without the trip to Japan. 

Vote Hi-beat.


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

SBGH267 is a great option too, if you went 3-hand Hi-Beat (almost 1.5mm thinner than GMT versions)
Currently available limited edition, and nothing wrong with having your one GS be an LE. Really good daily wearer. Hi-beat mechanical, gold seconds, premium dial, beautiful case design by one of Seiko/GS/Credor's most renowned designers.

So many high level options, I'm reminded why many of us couldn't just stick to one single GS.


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

Purple Hayz said:


> Hi-beat all the way.
> 
> The Spring Drive is a technological marvel, and the snowflake is among the most interesting dials ever slotted into a watch. But as brilliant a piece of engineering as SD is, I've never been able to shake the feeling that it's an answer to a question that no one really asked, namely: How about we make a movement thats less accurate than a regular quartz AND lacks the old school soul of a true mechanical?
> 
> ...


This. Totally agree with you.

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## BostonWatcher (Jun 28, 2012)

Purple Hayz said:


> Hi-beat all the way.
> 
> The Spring Drive is a technological marvel, and the snowflake is among the most interesting dials ever slotted into a watch. But as brilliant a piece of engineering as SD is, I've never been able to shake the feeling that it's an answer to a question that no one really asked, namely: How about we make a movement thats less accurate than a regular quartz AND lacks the old school soul of a true mechanical?
> 
> ...


Not to sell the SD short, and no one is as we all appreciate them, this is exactly how I feel.

This comment sums it up for me as well...

"I'd still buy a Spring Drive for the sheer awesomeness and audacity of it, but it wouldn't be my first choice, or recommendation, for a first GS."


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## valuewatchguy (Jun 16, 2012)

Nom de Forum said:


> . Most of the posts about Spring Drive accuracy I've seen on WUS report similar or better accuracy. Only HAQs can be expected to be more accurate than a Spring Drive.
> 
> It's my opinion that the awesomeness of the design and the audacity demonstrated in creating the Spring Drive is far more impressive than any masterfully crafted and artistically beautiful watch that is just a new iteration of a centuries old mechanical technology that has been tweaked with better alloys and friction reduction, tighter tolerances, and parts redesign.


I've had 2 spring drives and one hi beat. Hi Beat was +3 seconds a day. SD#1 was +3 per month. SD#2 is +4 a month.

Small sample size so not worth much but this is consistant with other SD posts as you mentioned. HiBeat was cool but in day to day application not sure i noticed much difference from the standard GS Auto 28.8 movements.

Neither HB or SD would i trust to service anywhere but Japan.

SD is an awesome movement and as we approach 20 years since the release of this movement i think the reality of how accurate and durable this movement can be is coming to light. I've had an AD selling GS for more than a decade tell me he has never had a SD come in for service. Auto and HB all the time. Is that bad owner practices or just a sign of the movement goodness? Dont know.

What i do know is that there is nothing like it.

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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

valuewatchguy said:


> I've had 2 spring drives and one hi beat. Hi Beat was +3 seconds a day. SD#1 was +3 per month. SD#2 is +4 a month.
> 
> Small sample size so not worth much but this is consistant with other SD posts as you mentioned. HiBeat was cool but in day to day application not sure i noticed much difference from the standard GS Auto 28.8 movements.
> 
> ...


Perhaps one reason Spring Drives don't reach your watchmaker for service is because they use feedback to control timekeeping? In other words, the quartz oscillator and IC can compensate for timekeeping changes that might arise from wear and aging in the mechanical portion of the movement. For example, if the jewel lubricant thickens a bit and slows the wheel train slightly, the IC would apply a bit less braking force to the glide wheel, causing the watch to speed up. And if the lubricant thins, causing the watch to speed up, a bit more braking force would be applied. So, the owner sees a watch performing as normal - only when the IC no longer can compensate for changes in the mechanical portion would the user realize there is need for a service.

That's not the case for a mechanical movement - they are 'set and forget'. Part of their charm, in my view.

(in the interests of full disclosure - I don't own a Spring Drive - though your well-worded post makes me think about one)

I agree with your comment about service in Japan - but I really, really, wish I could disagree and praise COSERV Mahwah.


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

Purple Hayz said:


> I've never been able to shake the feeling that it's an answer to a question that no one really asked, namely: How about we make a movement thats less accurate than a regular quartz AND lacks the old school soul of a true mechanical?


Well, you're asking the question backwards, and you know it. They wanted to make a more accurate mechanical watch. No need for a battery, rechargeable (solar or kinetic) or disposable.



Nom de Forum said:


> I think you and others are probably assuming a question that was never asked rather than a question that was asked. The question that was probably asked "How do we make a mechanically powered watch that presents the most realistic (smooth continuous flow) of time by having a continuously moving second hand?"


And that is a nice feature, too. Not sure it was a design goal, though.

But you are all right-GS offers multiple high-end movement technologies. And even their "normal" automatic and hand-winding movements are terrific. Buy one of each, or whichever you prefer, or whichever wears the nicest on your wrist.


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## ten13th (Nov 2, 2013)

yankeexpress said:


> The deal breaker with the Spring Drive is that it can only be serviced In Japan. This means a periodic trip thru shipping overseas.
> 
> The other service centers can service a hi-beat without the trip to Japan.
> 
> Vote Hi-beat.


This is not true. 3 hander SpringDrive can be serviced in US. Only Spring Drive chronographs need to be serviced by masters in Japan.

Please read the detail Sticky by JoeKirk about GS service.

Instagram: ten13th


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

Both movements are great... No need to knock one down to elevate the other. The reason I would suggest Spring Drive in this particular thread is because the original poster is looking for the most distinctly GS experience. Nowhere outside of high end Seiko can you get Spring Drive, or even something truly similar, and it's also sort of Seiko's darling as they selected it to feature some of their greatest masterpieces such as Credor minute repeater and Credor Eichi, a gigantic show of faith when you consider the investment going into the creation of the rest of the piece around the regulatory organ.

For the record, I have 1 spring drive and 2 hi-beats, so that's some indication of what I personally tend toward. But for the most distinctive GS experience, I'd have to give Spring Drive the nod.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

T1meout said:


> ....in the USA.
> 
> I'd suggest one of the high beat GMT's with their signature 44GS case design and matching intricate dial pattern.


Those are SOOOOOOO thick though. I love my 44GS case but it's a non GTM and still it's so thick...and just big.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

bluedialer said:


> How to forget...
> 2 new releases for this year could fit the bill really well.
> SBGA373 and SBGA375 Spring Drives
> 
> ...


What is seiko using the 300's for? the 0's were the old models the 2's the new models. What are the 3's?


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

De Wolfe said:


> Springs drive over high beat; because when it comes to high beat movements, there are a bunch out there, but spring drive? None I am aware off.
> 
> Also case/indices finishing, dial textures and colors, are a GS known thing.


I can think of just 1 other brand doing a 3600 movement right now.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Raff said:


> This
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you're just getting 1 GS, i'd strongly advice against that awful rotor. The normal rotor is just too nice looking to not have an example of it.


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## Sblackwell15 (Feb 26, 2018)

Completely agree! The only seiko I would even think of buying



JoeC said:


> To me, nothing says GS like the Snowflake SBGA211. It is quite possibly the most sought after regular production GS.


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

DustinS said:


> If you're just getting 1 GS, i'd strongly advice against that awful rotor. The normal rotor is just too nice looking to not have an example of it.


Each to their own. I think the rota is far nicer than the normal one.

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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

DustinS said:


> If you're just getting 1 GS, i'd strongly advice against that awful rotor. The normal rotor is just too nice looking to not have an example of it.


P.s. referencing you thread 'Hi-beat second walk, is this normal ' why would you buy this watch if you hate the rota?

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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

DustinS said:


> Those are SOOOOOOO thick though. I love my 44GS case but it's a non GTM and still it's so thick...and just big.


DustinS, I'm a HB GMT owner who agrees with you that they are quite thick, 14 mm is just too thick IMHO..

However, you and I clearly are wrong, 13.5 mm is actually considered to be slim, at least by WatchTime Magazine. Their recent review of the Oris Big Crown ProPilot Worldtimer says:
"The complexity of the construction of the ProPilot Worldtimer's case, in which the bezel operates the inner push-piece, isn't visible from the outside. *The height remains slim (13.5 mm)*, the diameter (44.7 mm) doesn't look at all exaggerated, and the bezel makes a somewhat narrow impression."​
https://www.watchtime.com/reviews/oris-big-crown-propilot-worldtimer-review/

Honestly, my mouth is hanging open in amazement that the author, Jens Koch, could say that. Did he even handle the watch?


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## Gizanthepuss (Feb 3, 2014)

I dunno... There's some really cool about SD, and I'm sure that in the fullness of time, I'll have one. But... and call me an old romantic... there's something VERY special about Seiko Hi-Beat. The history, the sheer watchmaking prowess involved... I'm wearing my '69 Lord Marvel right now, and every now and then, I hold her to my ear... oh that sound ! That symphony of exquisitely designed and engineered components... unless you've ever heard a Hi-Beat purring, you don't realise... inadvertently, Seiko originated ASMR 50 years ago when Hi-Beat was born.

TLR

Hi-Beat.


...yeah, yeah, I know... GP was first... but Seiko was better


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Gizanthepuss said:


> I dunno... There's some really cool about SD, and I'm sure that in the fullness of time, I'll have one. But... and call me an old romantic... there's something VERY special about Seiko Hi-Beat. The history, the sheer watchmaking prowess involved... I'm wearing my '69 Lord Marvel right now, and every now and then, I hold her to my ear... oh that sound ! That symphony of exquisitely designed and engineered components... unless you've ever heard a Hi-Beat purring, you don't realise... inadvertently, Seiko originated ASMR 50 years ago when Hi-Beat was born.
> 
> TLR
> 
> ...


If you are an ASMR person, have you ever watched Mark Lovick's watch repair videos on YouTube (Watch Repair Channel), his old ones trigger mine, so calm and soothing as he works?

Post # 15 in this thread refers to the sound of the Lord Marvel HB as "a flea with a jackhammer", I love that description:

http://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japa...rum/197041-incoming-lord-marvel-36-000-a.html


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## Gizanthepuss (Feb 3, 2014)

whineboy said:


> If you are an ASMR person, have you ever watched Mark Lovick's watch repair videos on YouTube (Watch Repair Channel), his old ones trigger mine, so calm and soothing as he works?
> 
> Post # 15 in this thread refers to the sound of the Lord Marvel HB as "a flea with a jackhammer", I love that description:
> 
> http://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japa...rum/197041-incoming-lord-marvel-36-000-a.html


Of course I've seen his vids, I'm a sub ! I've learned a LOT from his vids and yes, he's strangely soothing as he talks...

I love it !! A flea with a jackhammer is SPOT ON !


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Raff said:


> P.s. referencing you thread 'Hi-beat second walk, is this normal ' why would you buy this watch if you hate the rota?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's not my first GS. I bought it despite hating the rotor, not like any watch is even close to perfect. But I'd be super disappointed if it was my first GS and I couldn't get a clear view of the movement. That said I'm head over heals in love with the case and while it isn't the best GS dial, i love me some blue and there's something really special about the pattern. Wish the dial was a bit deeper though, in the right light it kinda washes away (gonna have to capture that at some point).

And just to add, I'd have considered not buying if I'd handled the rotor before buying. It isn't just that it looks bad, but it's completely out of place which makes it even worse. But still I'm head over heels in love with the case.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

whineboy said:


> DustinS, I'm a HB GMT owner who agrees with you that they are quite thick, 14 mm is just too thick IMHO..
> 
> However, you and I clearly are wrong, 13.5 mm is actually considered to be slim, at least by WatchTime Magazine. Their recent review of the Oris Big Crown ProPilot Worldtimer says:"The complexity of the construction of the ProPilot Worldtimer's case, in which the bezel operates the inner push-piece, isn't visible from the outside. *The height remains slim (13.5 mm)*, the diameter (44.7 mm) doesn't look at all exaggerated, and the bezel makes a somewhat narrow impression."​
> https://www.watchtime.com/reviews/oris-big-crown-propilot-worldtimer-review/
> ...


That's nuts, I can get that for a big sports watch that 13.5 isn't out of the norm, but slim? God I'd be banging that thing into every single door jam, desk...and I hate that feeling.


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## Purple Hayz (Jan 21, 2015)

Nom de Forum said:


> I think you and others are probably assuming a question that was never asked rather than a question that was asked. The question that was probably asked "How do we make a mechanically powered watch that presents the most realistic (smooth continuous flow) of time by having a continuously moving second hand?"


Nah my friend it was never about a smooth sweep. IIRC, the engineer (I'm forgetting his name but he was a real watch nerd--in the best way--and sadly passed away before SD ever came to market) who dreamt up SD was looking for a way to try to "save" mechanical watchmaking (this was back in the 70s, when Seiko's other invention--quartz--was decimating the industry) by combining mechanical motive/power with quartz-like accuracy. Drew his inspiration from watching cyclists brake while coasting downhill to maintain a steady, consistent rate of speed.

So truth be told, his motive was no different than that of any other performance obsessed watchmaker--_precision_.

Man after my own heart, and one of the biggest reasons I _do _admire Spring Drive.



Nom de Forum said:


> Watches do not have souls.


Rubbish! I suppose you'll be telling me they don't say "hi" next. ;-)



Nom de Forum said:


> It's my opinion the Spring Drive has something more irresistibly attractive than the charm of pure mechanical movements, it has *charisma*.


_That's _the part I genuinely don't get. Charisma? Huh? Spring Drive leaves me utterly cold (like...well....snowflakes I suppose :-d) in the charisma department.

Hold it up to your ear. Nothing

Stare at that beautiful escapement, mesmerized by its rhythmic....oh wait, nevermind. Doesn't have one.

There are many adjectives I'd use to describe Spring Drive, but _charismatic_? Not in a million years. To me, SD's is about as charismatic as a microchip, which kinda makes sense when ou think about it:









Or perhaps, the Borg :-d

Efficient, methodical, and precise? You bet. A technological (and horological) marvel? Absolutely. Hell, I've already admitted that I too will be assimilated into the SD collective one day. The timekeeping prowess alone makes Spring Drive a masterclass among mechanically powered watches. It is Seiko innovation at its very best, and I can't imagine any Seikophile (myself included) not having a Spring Drive in the collection.

But innovation is only a small part of Seiko's _raison d'etre_. Remember, the three Pillars of Seikodom are _Refinement, Perfection, and Innovation_. Seiko's never been about bleeding edge tech, super complicated triple-axis gyro tourbillons and all that other "engineering for engineering sake" silliness. No sir, Seiko is all about practicality and _refinement_. Building upon what comes before in ways that no one else saw or was able to execute quite as well.

-Hamilton invented the electric watch, and Bulova (Accutron) first made them accurate and efficient. Seiko just found a way to do it better.
-The Swiss invented chronometrie trials. Seiko found a way to beat them at their own game.
-Magic lever, MEMS, Spron? All Improvements on existing designs, techniques, and materials, respectively. Refinement, not revolution, _per se_

That is the quintessential GS Experience, and that's not (just) _my _opinion, it's been Grand Seiko's philosophy for decades:

*平凡中見偉大

*roughly translated (so I'm told), to "perfection in the ordinary"

And I'm sure you'll agree, when Seiko sets out to perfect something, the results are anything but ordinary:









Charisma, beauty, perfection.


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

DustinS said:


> It's not my first GS. I bought it despite hating the rotor, not like any watch is even close to perfect. But I'd be super disappointed if it was my first GS and I couldn't get a clear view of the movement. That said I'm head over heals in love with the case and while it isn't the best GS dial, i love me some blue and there's something really special about the pattern. Wish the dial was a bit deeper though, in the right light it kinda washes away (gonna have to capture that at some point).
> 
> And just to add, I'd have considered not buying if I'd handled the rotor before buying. It isn't just that it looks bad, but it's completely out of place which makes it even worse. But still I'm head over heels in love with the case.


Fair enough. As I said, each to their own. This is my first GS but having taken it into the Seiko boutique in London and seeing the best of what they offer, i still think this one is the best of them. Personally, I think the rota is better than the normal one and as it's on only a handful of GS LEs it makes it more special. Guess you have to be a diehard GS fan to appreciate that though. Plus it matches the dial so not out of place really. Not sure what you mean by that.

The dial is the nicest I've ever seen and I've owned / handled some nice dialled watches. Never seen it 'wash away' and only been stunned by it in when light hits it dead on. The blue lightens but the pattern just pops.

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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

Double post


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

All matters of opinion. The biggest problem with that rotor is that it greatly obstructs the view of the moving parts of the movement, viewing of which is s huge reason why to have a display case back at all.

However, for some, the aesthetic and uniqueness of the rotor is a worthwhile trade off. I myself have two GS mechanicals, and they both have this full circular rotor. By no means does it seriously ruin my GS experience, but I do quite much wish that one or the other had the "normal" semi circular rotor, which has a nice look to it as well as not blocking the view of the rest of the movement so much. Not too huge a price to pay to enjoy the rest of the stunning traits both watches have to offer.

As dials go, the H267 is pretty special at any level in watchmaking. However, nothing's perfect, and I feel it does lack some of the depth of texture that the Iwate-yama dial finish has. Very high interest and intricate, but at times comes off looking a little flatter across the glossy surface somehow. As for the "washing out", I believe my photo below sort of illustrates what might be being referred to. I've noticed a blurring out in certain lighting, however pretty much all beautiful dials suffer some effects of flattering vs unflattering lighting. In general, this spiral mosaic dial handles varying lighting very well.


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

bluedialer said:


> All matters of opinion. The biggest problem with that rotor is that it greatly obstructs the view of the moving parts of the movement, viewing of which is s huge reason why to have a display case back at all.
> 
> However, for some, the aesthetic and uniqueness of the rotor is a worthwhile trade off. I myself have two GS mechanicals, and they both have this full circular rotor. By no means does it seriously ruin my GS experience, but I do quite much wish that one or the other had the "normal" semi circular rotor, which has a nice look to it as well as not blocking the view of the rest of the movement so much. Not too huge a price to pay to enjoy the rest of the stunning traits both watches have to offer.
> 
> ...


You see, I think that shot shows the dial in one of it's better lights.

I don't agree the rota greatly obstructs the moving parts as the gaps are big enough. It's just harder to see than the normal rota though. and lets not forget that the rota is part of the movement.

Lovely GMT btw


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Raff said:


> Fair enough. As I said, each to their own. This is my first GS but having taken it into the Seiko boutique in London and seeing the best of what they offer, i still think this one is the best of them. Personally, I think the rota is better than the normal one and as it's on only a handful of GS LEs it makes it more special. Guess you have to be a diehard GS fan to appreciate that though. Plus it matches the dial so not out of place really. Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> The dial is the nicest I've ever seen and I've owned / handled some nice dialled watches. Never seen it 'wash away' and only been stunned by it in when light hits it dead on. The blue lightens but the pattern just pops.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The blue on the back is not the same color as the dial, but the out of place is that it looks cheap over that amazing Tokyo striped rodium plated back. Then the rotor is too thick blocking out the actual moving parts, you can see that lovely 3600 beats per minute happening without really getting it in just the right place and then still you're having it partially blocked. Just drives me nuts!

If you get the dial with the light dead on it to the side, you'll lose any reflection of the blue and the dial shows that it's just a stamped pattern and is kinda smooth and almost plastic like. I gotta play with the camera to capture that, their dials always have so many levels, this is sadly not the best hidden one 

It's a great watch and certainly not a bad one to own, I certainly bought it! But for a first GS, it isn't the best showcase for what they do imo.


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

Bluedialer's side-by-side really does a great job highlighting both dials.
It's probably too crazy for GS, but might fly with Credor - use the anodized/oxidized blue of the 267's rotor (you say rota, I say potato) on the DIAL!


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

DustinS said:


> The blue on the back is not the same color as the dial, but the out of place is that it looks cheap over that amazing Tokyo striped rodium plated back. Then the rotor is too thick blocking out the actual moving parts, you can see that lovely 3600 beats per minute happening without really getting it in just the right place and then still you're having it partially blocked. Just drives me nuts!
> 
> If you get the dial with the light dead on it to the side, you'll lose any reflection of the blue and the dial shows that it's just a stamped pattern and is kinda smooth and almost plastic like. I gotta play with the camera to capture that, their dials always have so many levels, this is sadly not the best hidden one
> 
> It's a great watch and certainly not a bad one to own, I certainly bought it! But for a first GS, it isn't the best showcase for what they do imo.


I have to go back to 'each to his own'. I think the rota looks anything but cheap and the dial anything but plastic-like. the rota is tungsten and anodized titanium. Personally, it's amongst the best dial's I've ever seen. The rota is not the same colour but it still matches with the theme of the watch. I wear brown shoes and a brown belt but they don't have to be the exact same shade of brown to match 

This article shows the dial in better picks than we can probably muster ourselves, and this is what made me buy it.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/grand-seiko-sbgh267-anniversary-introducing


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## Zinzan (Oct 9, 2014)

DustinS said:


> The blue on the back is not the same color as the dial, but the out of place is that it looks cheap over that amazing Tokyo striped rodium plated back. Then the rotor is too thick blocking out the actual moving parts, you can see that lovely 3600 beats per minute happening without really getting it in just the right place and then still you're having it partially blocked. Just drives me nuts!


I'm not crazy about that rotor, either--not the oxidized effect, and especially not the size. Yes, there are gaps, but you still can't view the movement very well. With a half (or less than half) circle rotor, you can easily rotate the watch to drop it out of view of the part of the watch you want to look at. Can't remember which one, but one of the first Grand Seikos I considered buying had a similar oxidized, full-circle rotor, and it was one of the major factors in my passing on it. For me, my thinking was similar to Dustin's--the rotor is something different that I might be okay with on a second or third GS, but I didn't want it on my first.

But that's just me. Raff, you clearly love this rotor, so it's an awesome watch for you.



DustinS said:


> If you get the dial with the light dead on it to the side, you'll lose any reflection of the blue and the dial shows that it's just a stamped pattern and is kinda smooth and almost plastic like. I gotta play with the camera to capture that


That would be very interesting to see, if you can capture it.

I'm torn on my feelings for the dial, which I have NOT seen in person. In photos, it often looks amazing. Sometimes, I can only see a bunch of G's and S's, and just don't get it. And sometimes, it reminds me of fish scales, lol.

I passed on this watch, but still think it's very cool.


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

Zinzan said:


> I'm not crazy about that rotor, either--not the oxidized effect, and especially not the size. Yes, there are gaps, but you still can't view the movement very well. With a half (or less than half) circle rotor, you can easily rotate the watch to drop it out of view of the part of the watch you want to look at. Can't remember which one, but one of the first Grand Seikos I considered buying had a similar oxidized, full-circle rotor, and it was one of the major factors in my passing on it. For me, my thinking was similar to Dustin's--the rotor is something different that I might be okay with on a second or third GS, but I didn't want it on my first.
> 
> But that's just me. Raff, you clearly love this rotor, so it's an awesome watch for you.
> 
> ...


For me, I wanted something a bit different. I tend to go for that quite often. It's the first GS I've owned but it's nice to know I have something that is relatively rare rather than, say, the white or black dial hi-beats or the snowflake, which a ton of people have.

Maybe it's a love or hate kind of watch and everyone is different. I personally can't stand the Speedy Pro and totally don't get why it's so popular. It looks to me bland and cheap but many people have it as an essential part of their collection.


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## Tonhao (Dec 23, 2017)

valuewatchguy said:


> I've had an AD selling GS for more than a decade tell me he has never had a SD come in for service. Auto and HB all the time. Is that bad owner practices or just a sign of the movement goodness? Dont know.
> 
> What i do know is that there is nothing like it.


My AD said the same thing. It all comes down to what you are drawn more to: Tradition(Hi-beat) or Innovation(SD). The Hi-beat has that satisfying fast click and movement construction, whereas SD is something completely unique to Seiko, dead accurate, but loses the imperfect charms of a conventional gear system. Some may find the Integrated Circuit a little too robotic.

Personally still a bit more drawn to the traditional side, but it would be tough to decide if ever get another GS.


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## Nom de Forum (Oct 17, 2012)

I admit I am not that familiar with the more arcane details of Spring Drive history. Thanks for sharing the anecdote about cyclists braking while coasting downhill to maintain a steady, consistent rate of speed.

This question, "How do we make a mechanically powered watch that presents the most realistic (smooth continuous flow) of time by having a continuously moving second hand?", may never have been asked, but this question, "How about we make a movement that's less accurate than a regular quartz AND lacks the old school soul of a true mechanical?" was almost certainly never asked even jokingly as it is frequently mentioned in some variation here on WUS, most notably by mleok in mild disparagement of the Spring Drive. I think you and mleok may be sharing punchlines.

It is always interesting and somewhat amusing when someone rebuts an argument in a way that only strengths it. That is what I think you have done.



Purple Hayz said:


> > Nah my friend it was never about a smooth sweep. IIRC, the engineer (I'm forgetting his name but he was a real watch nerd--in the best way--and sadly passed away before SD ever came to market) who dreamt up SD was looking for a way to try to "save" mechanical watchmaking (this was back in the 70s, when Seiko's other invention--quartz--was decimating the industry) by combining mechanical motive/power with quartz-like accuracy. Drew his inspiration from watching cyclists brake while coasting downhill to maintain a steady, consistent rate of speed.
> >
> > So truth be told, his motive was no different than that of any other performance obsessed watchmaker--_precision_.
> >
> ...


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Zinzan said:


> I'm not crazy about that rotor, either--not the oxidized effect, and especially not the size. Yes, there are gaps, but you still can't view the movement very well. With a half (or less than half) circle rotor, you can easily rotate the watch to drop it out of view of the part of the watch you want to look at. Can't remember which one, but one of the first Grand Seikos I considered buying had a similar oxidized, full-circle rotor, and it was one of the major factors in my passing on it. For me, my thinking was similar to Dustin's--the rotor is something different that I might be okay with on a second or third GS, but I didn't want it on my first.
> 
> But that's just me. Raff, you clearly love this rotor, so it's an awesome watch for you.
> 
> ...


Honestly both the G and S and even the spiral pattern believe it or not are hard to see in person. Yeah I'll try and get some pics in the sun tomorrow if it's sunny out and see if I can show the plastic like look.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Raff said:


> I have to go back to 'each to his own'. I think the rota looks anything but cheap and the dial anything but plastic-like. the rota is tungsten and anodized titanium. Personally, it's amongst the best dial's I've ever seen. The rota is not the same colour but it still matches with the theme of the watch. I wear brown shoes and a brown belt but they don't have to be the exact same shade of brown to match
> 
> This article shows the dial in better picks than we can probably muster ourselves, and this is what made me buy it.
> 
> https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/grand-seiko-sbgh267-anniversary-introducing


Given a large number of special edition GS's use rhodium plated rotors with 18k gold lions, how in the heck is something cheap like tungsten and titanium not well cheap? The lion seriously looks out of place, it's not well finished at all. The lion is actually the biggest issue, if they'd at least done it in 18k gold, it would at least have kept with the gold/blue them, but again you CANNOT full see the movement. I will say in direct sun, the blue does kinda look cool, but the other 90% of the time, it's this weird dull metal over this gloriously well finished movement.

I guess to each there own, but all else equal I wish more people would send their hate for it to seiko so hopefully they stop doing it! They keep doing it on their BEST looking watches, it's frustrating. Honestly at this point I feel it's become common so the idea it's something special is a bit hard to buy. This wasn't a low production GS, at 1500 it wouldn't shock me if they made as many of these as they'll make most other models this year.


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## chenpofu (Feb 21, 2015)

DustinS said:


> Given a large number of special edition GS's use rhodium plated rotors with 18k gold lions, how in the heck is something cheap like tungsten and titanium not well cheap? The lion seriously looks out of place, it's not well finished at all. The lion is actually the biggest issue, if they'd at least done it in 18k gold, it would at least have kept with the gold/blue them, but again you CANNOT full see the movement. I will say in direct sun, the blue does kinda look cool, but the other 90% of the time, it's this weird dull metal over this gloriously well finished movement.
> 
> I guess to each there own, but all else equal I wish more people would send their hate for it to seiko so hopefully they stop doing it! They keep doing it on their BEST looking watches, it's frustrating. Honestly at this point I feel it's become common so the idea it's something special is a bit hard to buy. This wasn't a low production GS, at 1500 it wouldn't shock me if they made as many of these as they'll make most other models this year.


I am okay with the full rotor, I remember the SBGJ005 had it in sort of a gold color that was pretty cool. But the real special GS movements / watches are the ones with the gold medallion on the half rotor ....


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Anyway to the original question, I somewhat like the regular cheap automatic movement for the best GS experience. But from there the focus should be on getting the easiest to read watch from them. For me that's what GS is all about, legibility, function, precision, and affordability. The spring drive and hi-beats are amazing movements and certainly worthy of the hype/love, but the 72 hour power reserve on the regular auto is GS doing what they really are about.


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

DustinS said:


> Given a large number of special edition GS's use rhodium plated rotors with 18k gold lions, how in the heck is something cheap like tungsten and titanium not well cheap? The lion seriously looks out of place, it's not well finished at all. The lion is actually the biggest issue, if they'd at least done it in 18k gold, it would at least have kept with the gold/blue them, but again you CANNOT full see the movement. I will say in direct sun, the blue does kinda look cool, but the other 90% of the time, it's this weird dull metal over this gloriously well finished movement.
> 
> I guess to each there own, but all else equal I wish more people would send their hate for it to seiko so hopefully they stop doing it! They keep doing it on their BEST looking watches, it's frustrating. Honestly at this point I feel it's become common so the idea it's something special is a bit hard to buy. This wasn't a low production GS, at 1500 it wouldn't shock me if they made as many of these as they'll make most other models this year.


Dude, just sell your watch and get another regular GS. Yes, they might not make that many fewer than others 'this year' but they'll continue making the regular ones year on year. Its where the 'limited edition ' comes in. I've taken the liberty of googling it for you:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/limited-edition

Seriously, I've never known anyone to buy an expensive new watch, obsess over something small that is a non issue (as per your thread) and then hate on it so much!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Raff said:


> Dude, just sell your watch and get another regular GS. Yes, they might not make that many fewer than others 'this year' but they'll continue making the regular ones year on year. Its where the 'limited edition ' comes in. I've taken the liberty of googling it for you:
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/limited-edition
> 
> ...


Lol, sell a used watch. that's funny!

Seiko makes CONSTANT new limited editions and a great many use the full rotors. Given their total production is extremely low, the full one isn't that uncommon or rare. So just because they only will make this watch once, the watch isn't the topic, it's the rotor which is not uncommon at all in the GS line as they will keep making new LE's with the rotor.

As for me buying a watch and finding real issues with serious real problems...that's normal. The only people who don't do this are those who lie to themselves or don't care that much in the first place about the watch. Everything in life is flawed and we deal with it, but to not discuss the flaws is disingenuous and does nothing to further discussion about these as you said expensive pieces. Negative feedback is far more useful to others despite many people's aversion to hearing it than positive feedback. There are more than enough salesman to tell you why something is perfect. The value of a forum is when you can hear real world negative feedback on things that people will enjoyed enough to buy.

This is a good example if you heard my complaints about the rotor but liked it, then that's a HUGE positive for your decision to buy the watch. If other's biggest concerns are pluses too you, then that's good. If however you'd not really thought about wanting to see the movement in action, you'd have some well warranted pause. You might still purchase it, but at least you'd know going in that you'd not be able to get a clear view of the movement. Similarly often you only get the "best" views of watches. What you really want is the worst possible picture to see why maybe the watch won't be for you. If people always gave good feedback maybe we'd not have so many people who buy watches and flip them because they didn't work out for them.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obsession

Just an fyi since you said I was obsessing over something, I thought was an interesting thread topic and hadn't noticed before. Obsessing? lol


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

DustinS said:


> Lol, sell a used watch. that's funny!
> 
> Seiko makes CONSTANT new limited editions and a great many use the full rotors. Given their total production is extremely low, the full one isn't that uncommon or rare. So just because they only will make this watch once, the watch isn't the topic, it's the rotor which is not uncommon at all in the GS line as they will keep making new LE's with the rotor.
> 
> ...


Actually, the watch was the topic for me. I used to have an AT8500 and rarely looked at the movement. In fact, as on the GS, there is only one small portion of the movement that is in motion. The rest is covered up anyway. The gaps in the rota allow enough room to see the balance wheel, hence the size of the gaps being the size they are by design.

I tend not too really look at the movement at all and it's more appealing to me to have an unusual rota.

Regarding your thread, it wasn't a real issue though. I have OCD (but thanks for the link anyway) and had a similar occurrence on my AT. I didn't even register it as an issue.

Your points about feedback on forums are very valid and I agree with them completely. Just that your views I'd expect from someone who DIDN'T buy it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zuiko (May 17, 2016)

chenpofu said:


> I am okay with the full rotor, I remember the SBGJ005 had it in sort of a gold color that was pretty cool. But the real special GS movements / watches are the ones with the gold medallion on the half rotor ....


The full rotor has a presence of its own but I am glad that my second GMT HiBeat the Peacock has a normal rotor. One might have expected an emerald green rotor with gold perhaps on it but no. No anodised rotor.

I think one doesn't mind it if one has another GS of comparable level/value (artistic) that has the normal rotor. I think that is a sure sign that it's probably intended for people who have enough normal rotors that the anodisation and special design is appreciated. I think those looking at it as their only GS should beware the frustration expressed against the "full" pentagonal rotor.

I love both.


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Raff said:


> Actually, the watch was the topic for me. I used to have an AT8500 and rarely looked at the movement. In fact, as on the GS, there is only one small portion of the movement that is in motion. The rest is covered up anyway. The gaps in the rota allow enough room to see the balance wheel, hence the size of the gaps being the size they are by design.
> 
> I tend not too really look at the movement at all and it's more appealing to me to have an unusual rota.
> 
> ...


I'll be honest with you, I made the post about the second walk after a couple of beers (mighta been scotch now that i think about it) so maybe I came off weird or overly concerned, but it was an odd thing I'd never noticed and as I already own a GS with their "cheaper" movement, it was a bit surprising. So maybe i came off more "OCD" than I was. Honestly once people mentioned it was normal(ish) I'd forgotten I even posted it. If it was an issue that could cause damage to the moment or something like that, then I'd have had to very sadly send it back for servicing and would be without my new toy for weeks or months, that was actually my concern, not so much the minor mechanical quirk.

Now yes you can see the balance wheel, but the outer ring of the rotor is blocking a clear view of the balance wheel in its' (never know how to do it possessive but anyway) which clearly can't be moved around because there is always the outer piece. If they could have thinned that somehow, it wouldn't be too big a deal in terms of my enjoyment of seeing the movement. As it is I cannot get a clear view of the whole thing at once and that kinda sucks because I'd wanted to do a side by side with my non hi beats to see how they look different. A big part of why I get THIS watch was because it was so different from my other GS. While I went in 85% knowing I was going to be frustrated with the rotor some glamor shots had me hoping it would be more vibrant and at least interest. Sadly in most light it just looks like an after thought they threw in to be different, even just throwing in some gold (doesn't have to be real gold) accents to mimic the dial coulda gone a LONG way.

Anyway since I've mentioned them, here is my first GS and second. You can see the 4 years of love I've put on the first one. The first one is still imo the best looking GS I've ever seen and is IMO the best example of the GS experience. And let me tell you, I can go on for days at how overly thick it feels and how it wears WAY bigger than 40 mm and why I am not a huge fan of that, but god it's pretty lol.


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

DustinS said:


> I'll be honest with you, I made the post about the second walk after a couple of beers (mighta been scotch now that i think about it) so maybe I came off weird or overly concerned, but it was an odd thing I'd never noticed and as I already own a GS with their "cheaper" movement, it was a bit surprising. So maybe i came off more "OCD" than I was. Honestly once people mentioned it was normal(ish) I'd forgotten I even posted it. If it was an issue that could cause damage to the moment or something like that, then I'd have had to very sadly send it back for servicing and would be without my new toy for weeks or months, that was actually my concern, not so much the minor mechanical quirk.
> 
> Now yes you can see the balance wheel, but the outer ring of the rotor is blocking a clear view of the balance wheel in its' (never know how to do it possessive but anyway) which clearly can't be moved around because there is always the outer piece. If they could have thinned that somehow, it wouldn't be too big a deal in terms of my enjoyment of seeing the movement. As it is I cannot get a clear view of the whole thing at once and that kinda sucks because I'd wanted to do a side by side with my non hi beats to see how they look different. A big part of why I get THIS watch was because it was so different from my other GS. While I went in 85% knowing I was going to be frustrated with the rotor some glamor shots had me hoping it would be more vibrant and at least interest. Sadly in most light it just looks like an after thought they threw in to be different, even just throwing in some gold (doesn't have to be real gold) accents to mimic the dial coulda gone a LONG way.
> 
> ...


Lol, now I'm getting a better picture of you, you're a right fussy bugger lol! To be honest, that's what has kind of put me off GS until now, as I prefer 38.5-39.5 cases. Your black one is lovely, but I have to say, the blue one in that shot side-by-side beats is all up! I guess I'm a sucker for an embossed dial!

What is your next venture going to be?


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Raff said:


> Lol, now I'm getting a better picture of you, you're a right fussy bugger lol! To be honest, that's what has kind of put me off GS until now, as I prefer 38.5-39.5 cases. Your black one is lovely, but I have to say, the blue one in that shot side-by-side beats is all up! I guess I'm a sucker for an embossed dial!
> 
> What is your next venture going to be?


Direct flash is much kinder on a brand new and watch and that dial. The black dial changing from a pool of oil to a brown star burst, to a black mirror and back again is simply amazing. The blue dial doesn't have nearly as many layers and really you'd have to spend time looking at images or owning them to really get how just amazing the black dial is. Mind you when does a cell phone ever do a fair job, like the first picture? Though ignoring the dial, it's the hands and the indexes on the black dial that really set it apart and above. the hour and minute hand are angled down and polished with the centers being textured making them despite being smaller MUCH easier to read. Then the thicker indexes make it easier to read as well. It's always amazing to go from another watch back to the SBGR083 and there's just this amazing feeling over how simply easy it is to tell the time. https://i.imgur.com/RBz9xbZ.jpg perhaps a bit better view though all honesty someone with an SLR likely has put far better images out there than I ever will (my dad's a photographer, I'm NOT).

Next watch, that's tough. Next GS? That I have no idea. I'd LOVE them to do another quartz diver, really wish I'd gotten the white dialed one. My GS quest is to have 1 of their 4 different major movements (auto, hi beat, spring drive, and quartz). I feel that the spring drive if I do it right has to be titanium as well. I just feel those two elements make up what is a unique state of GS and I'd want them together. With quartz I'd rather get one of their high accuracy versions and would like a display back, but again that diver was too pretty to pass on again, had I known it would be a non "LE" and yet only be made for a short time I'd have gone after it.

For non GS I am looking forward to see what Tudor does with their small movement in the black bays. I also have my eye on GO, but I'm more of a watch every 2 years or so guy so it'll be a while before I have to make up my mind, unless something just jaw dropping shows up that so good I have to cut into my savings for it...or I get a killer promotion.

Though my next watch purchases will all be about getting the 267 off that bracelet and into a nice new strap (s?). I just can't decide what the right choice will be. I don't think this case needs a bracelet to hide those sexy lugs! I'd also like another accent for the blue...which is silly since I put all of zero thought into my actual attire, but watches are different


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

DustinS said:


> Direct flash is much kinder on a brand new and watch and that dial. The black dial changing from a pool of oil to a brown star burst, to a black mirror and back again is simply amazing. The blue dial doesn't have nearly as many layers and really you'd have to spend time looking at images or owning them to really get how just amazing the black dial is. Mind you when does a cell phone ever do a fair job, like the first picture? Though ignoring the dial, it's the hands and the indexes on the black dial that really set it apart and above. the hour and minute hand are angled down and polished with the centers being textured making them despite being smaller MUCH easier to read. Then the thicker indexes make it easier to read as well. It's always amazing to go from another watch back to the SBGR083 and there's just this amazing feeling over how simply easy it is to tell the time. https://i.imgur.com/RBz9xbZ.jpg perhaps a bit better view though all honesty someone with an SLR likely has put far better images out there than I ever will (my dad's a photographer, I'm NOT).
> 
> Next watch, that's tough. Next GS? That I have no idea. I'd LOVE them to do another quartz diver, really wish I'd gotten the white dialed one. My GS quest is to have 1 of their 4 different major movements (auto, hi beat, spring drive, and quartz). I feel that the spring drive if I do it right has to be titanium as well. I just feel those two elements make up what is a unique state of GS and I'd want them together. With quartz I'd rather get one of their high accuracy versions and would like a display back, but again that diver was too pretty to pass on again, had I known it would be a non "LE" and yet only be made for a short time I'd have gone after it.
> 
> ...


I always seem to wearing blue! I'm thinking an oyster perpetual next, with the white dial or an explorer 1. but my wife won't have that until we have enough in the savings for a house!

Have you seen the GS quartz with a see through back? Not sure why you'd want to see a quartz movement as there isn't that much to look at, even though its still cool I guess

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Raff said:


> I always seem to wearing blue! I'm thinking an oyster perpetual next, with the white dial or an explorer 1. but my wife won't have that until we have enough in the savings for a house!
> 
> Have you seen the GS quartz with a see through back? Not sure why you'd want to see a quartz movement as there isn't that much to look at, even though its still cool I guess
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We CLEARLY have different views on the display back. The OP not even having a display back (or even a cool engraving) but the no date is a complete deal breaker on the rolex front for me. Sucks as I actually really love that blue dial and while I don't like the ET hand logo, I could get over having ET all over my dial for that sexy blue star burst. Though date is just as bad, my nomos Orion doesn't have a date, bought it when I was in banking and wearing suits daily, kinda sad I don't have excuses to wear it, but LOVING not being in a suit! Not that I won't rock it in a shorts and a t, but that's not ideal. But anyway even after a month of daily wear at work, I was still really missing that date window (it was the LE midnight blue version, so it wasn't available with a date, but it is a lovey blue).

Anyway quartz with a display back would generally be kinda worthless, but GS's quartz isn't any old quartz. Seeing the jewels and classic watch making over the more modern electronics is really freaking cool. That said given your love of "different", is there anything more "different" and cool than a quartz with a display back? Unlike the "full rotor" the display back on a quartz is much more unique, I think I've only seen maybe 2 GS rocking it (I'm guessing others have done it).

But I think we're leaving the original topic of what is the best GS experience perhaps? Or perhaps the unique pieces are the GS experience for you?

Just to take this back to the GS experience, GS is about function first and that's to me what I love first and foremost about the "brand".


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

DustinS said:


> We CLEARLY have different views on the display back. The OP not even having a display back (or even a cool engraving) but the no date is a complete deal breaker on the rolex front for me. Sucks as I actually really love that blue dial and while I don't like the ET hand logo, I could get over having ET all over my dial for that sexy blue star burst. Though date is just as bad, my nomos Orion doesn't have a date, bought it when I was in banking and wearing suits daily, kinda sad I don't have excuses to wear it, but LOVING not being in a suit! Not that I won't rock it in a shorts and a t, but that's not ideal. But anyway even after a month of daily wear at work, I was still really missing that date window (it was the LE midnight blue version, so it wasn't available with a date, but it is a lovey blue).
> 
> Anyway quartz with a display back would generally be kinda worthless, but GS's quartz isn't any old quartz. Seeing the jewels and classic watch making over the more modern electronics is really freaking cool. That said given your love of "different", is there anything more "different" and cool than a quartz with a display back? Unlike the "full rotor" the display back on a quartz is much more unique, I think I've only seen maybe 2 GS rocking it (I'm guessing others have done it).
> 
> ...


From suits to shorts? Sounds like a big career change!

Yes the quartz movement through a see through case back is quite cool, and definitely different. I'm actually starting to come round to the fact you're right about the rota. I do like it but starting to think it would be better with a normal GS rota. Then again, it is quite rare and different


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Raff said:


> From suits to shorts? Sounds like a big career change!
> 
> Yes the quartz movement through a see through case back is quite cool, and definitely different. I'm actually starting to come round to the fact you're right about the rota. I do like it but starting to think it would be better with a normal GS rota. Then again, it is quite rare and different


Haha, well I actually went from shorts to suits and now I'm in more of casual pants/jean friday's. The shorts was far nicer! But I'll rock the Orion on a weekend helping people move. Kinda like how light it is when doing those things, but likely not good for the strap.

And not all Seiko rotors are the same 

My black dialed above has the rotor with gold lettering, but has a nice easter egg with the GS lion laser etched in the display back crystal. Seiko can do subtle and special very well imo. This one was a bit more "stop looking at anything else, and LOOK AT ME".


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

rota vs. rotor

JUST SAYING...


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

BarracksSi said:


> rota vs. rotor
> 
> JUST SAYING...


Agreed - it was getting distracting, I'd focus on 'rota' and miss the rest of Raff's posts.

@ Raff - or is this English vs. American style, lifts, lorries, chips and queues... vs. elevators, trucks, fries and lines....


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## BarracksSi (Feb 13, 2013)

whineboy said:


> Agreed - it was getting distracting, I'd focus on 'rota' and miss the rest of Raff's posts.
> 
> @ Raff - or is this English vs. American style, lifts, lorries... elevators, trucks....


But naturally, only after I posted the screenshots, I noticed that "rota" once meant "wheel"...

But that was almost _four hundred years ago..._

[edit]
This is where autocorrect-plus-phonetic spelling (thank you, Hooked On Phonics) fails correct language again. Because "rota" is an actual word, it doesn't get highlighted as a misspelling, even though the author may be simply spelling it out phonetically.


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

BarracksSi said:


> But naturally, only after I posted the screenshots, I noticed that "rota" once meant "wheel"...
> 
> But that was almost _four hundred years ago..._
> 
> ...


I'm 400 years old and come from the Clan MacLeod. There can be only 1! Unfortunately, you can't see the GS under all thy garments in this shot.









But yes, it's a mistake on my part, thanks for highlighting


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## whineboy (Aug 12, 2012)

BarracksSi said:


> But naturally, only after I posted the screenshots, I noticed that "rota" once meant "wheel"...
> 
> But that was almost _four hundred years ago..._
> 
> ...


Clearly, rota and rotor share a common Latin root. But I've never seen 'rota' used to refer to a watch part, it just looked 'off' to my eye.


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## Khamenman (Dec 30, 2016)

DustinS said:


> I'll be honest with you, I made the post about the second walk after a couple of beers (mighta been scotch now that i think about it) so maybe I came off weird or overly concerned, but it was an odd thing I'd never noticed and as I already own a GS with their "cheaper" movement, it was a bit surprising. So maybe i came off more "OCD" than I was. Honestly once people mentioned it was normal(ish) I'd forgotten I even posted it. If it was an issue that could cause damage to the moment or something like that, then I'd have had to very sadly send it back for servicing and would be without my new toy for weeks or months, that was actually my concern, not so much the minor mechanical quirk.
> 
> Now yes you can see the balance wheel, but the outer ring of the rotor is blocking a clear view of the balance wheel in its' (never know how to do it possessive but anyway) which clearly can't be moved around because there is always the outer piece. If they could have thinned that somehow, it wouldn't be too big a deal in terms of my enjoyment of seeing the movement. As it is I cannot get a clear view of the whole thing at once and that kinda sucks because I'd wanted to do a side by side with my non hi beats to see how they look different. A big part of why I get THIS watch was because it was so different from my other GS. While I went in 85% knowing I was going to be frustrated with the rotor some glamor shots had me hoping it would be more vibrant and at least interest. Sadly in most light it just looks like an after thought they threw in to be different, even just throwing in some gold (doesn't have to be real gold) accents to mimic the dial coulda gone a LONG way.
> 
> ...


Hey Dustin, may I ask the model number for your right watch? Is that SBGR053? It looks awesome!


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Khamenman said:


> Hey Dustin, may I ask the model number for your right watch? Is that SBGR053? It looks awesome!


SBGR083 - Good news and bad news on that one. Only 700 made and it came out some time ago. Good news is I do believe they come up for sale now and again (mine of course will come to the grave with me).


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## bluedialer (Sep 16, 2011)

whineboy said:


> Clearly, rota and rotor share a common Latin root. But I've never seen 'rota' used to refer to a watch part, it just looked 'off' to my eye.


It is off. It makes me think of a Jersey accent. But turns out it's an English accent.


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## Khamenman (Dec 30, 2016)

DustinS said:


> SBGR083 - Good news and bad news on that one. Only 700 made and it came out some time ago. Good news is I do believe they come up for sale now and again (mine of course will come to the grave with me).


Wow! Apparently I didn't realize that model exist. Does anyone here know if there is any other GS from SBGR series with 44GS case? (Other than this SBGR083 of course)


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## Raff (Sep 10, 2012)

bluedialer said:


> It is off. It makes me think of a Jersey accent. But turns out it's an English accent.


Yes, English accent would be 'rota' especially from London anyway. Hence why I misspelled

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DustinS (Nov 3, 2013)

Khamenman said:


> Wow! Apparently I didn't realize that model exist. Does anyone here know if there is any other GS from SBGR series with 44GS case? (Other than this SBGR083 of course)


081

That one there were a *few* more made. I nearly bought the 81 before this forum became filled with insanely amazing pictures of the 83's black dial and how it played with light.

https://timelessluxwatches.com/reviews/sbgr081-sbgr083-review/


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