# Glashutte Original High End? I doubt it!



## edwinxx

View attachment 12967123

The watch in question is the Senator Panorama Date Moon Phase 100-04-05-12-30
This was the thread originally I posted in German where I was asking about a loose screw from my 2+ years GO
https://www.watchuseek.com/f8/loose-screw-my-go-senator-pdm-please-advice-4658553.html

I've sent the watch to Swatch Service Centre because a loose screw in the movement came off and I fear it would damage the movement. After receiving a call from the service centre requiring the watch to be sent to Singapore (I'm from Malaysia btw), I got an explanation on the condition of the watch. This is what was extracted from their report :


- The watch must be sent to brand 
- The case is scratched 
*- The case is corroded *
*- The case back is corroded *
- The bezel is scratched 
- The crystal is scratched 
- The leather strap is worn and strained 
- The bracelet / strap shows typical signs of wear and tear 
- The clasp is scratched 
- *A screw/s is loose/unscrewed in the movement *
*- The movement shows signs of moisture penetration* (*light oxidization of parts and/or plates) *
- This watch needs a full maintenance service 
Read the the bolded part. Does this look like something a high end watch of 2 years+ should be having? Seriously the watch has not been dipped in a pool of water before and somehow it's been corroded so easily...

Another damage not mention in the report but mention to me on the phone is the loose screw has damaged and scratched the gold Rotor.

Seriously If they hit me with a hefty bill for their Precision German Screw-Ups things won't be pretty here. I've always heard about some doubts on the quality parts in their earlier model and I thought they learn from their mistakes but looks like GO has a long way to go to be even on par with the likes of JLC or Rolex.


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## TJMike

It must be very annoying. However, whether GO is high end or not can’t be determined by a sample size of one watch. Every single company is not perfect when it comes to quality control even the Patek and Journe’s of this world.


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## arejay101

Sounds like you had a healthy welcome to the world of high end watches. I’ve had the same experience with my Patek’s... nice things cost money and need to be fixed. They just cost more to do it.


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## WTSP

Debates about the nature of “high endedness” aside, I too have come to the conclusion that the whole practice of watch servicing is a disaster and represents a significant barrier to anybody wanting to own more (or any) watches. As mechanical watches have gravitated into a luxury or niche market, the service people and infrastructure that existed in the hay day of mechanicals prior to the seventies has gradually disappeared. It’s replacement is smaller in scale, less accessible, more expensive and seemingly less qualified.

Your watch is just another example of the ongoing horror show in servicing. To my knowledge the only real exception is Rolex, which has the volume and organizational discipline to ensure that it’s still done properly.


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## Tanjecterly

If from Malaysia, wouldn't it be hot and humid? Would that explain the moisture ingress?


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## Spangles

A skilled and trusted independent watchmaker is the way to go, if at all possible.


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## UberDave

Unless their report on your watch is an outright lie, it sounds like you've positively beaten the hell out of your watch. Is it a lie?


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## edwinxx

Tanjecterly said:


> If from Malaysia, wouldn't it be hot and humid? Would that explain the moisture ingress?


Yes it's humid here. But I certainly would expect a watch of this 'quality' and price to withstand the natural weather or they won't sell it here



UberDave said:


> Unless their report on your watch is an outright lie, it sounds like you've positively beaten the hell out of your watch. Is it a lie?


Hmmm...I wear it to my office work 3 times on average a week. Does that count as beating the hell out of my watch? Also I didn't know it could cause corrosion in the movement.


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## WTSP

There are many aspects of GO/Swatch’s report to you that sound odd, but the strangest in my opinion is that they say that the case has signs of corrosion. How is that even possible for stainless steel? I think that there are two ways to interpret such an exhaustive list of issues in the report. 

A- If they are doing the service under warranty, it’s a good sign as perhaps they will be doing the maximum amount of work possible at their cost. 
B- If it’s on your dime then it seems absurd to be fixing a variety of issues that never should have occurred in the first place. 

I wonder if from a servicing perspective GO is the odd one out at the Swatch group? I imagine that companies with generic eta movements like Hamilton, Tissot, Rado, etc. are easy to deal with. Omega is core to the group and has significant volume so it is likely to have established servicing. High end brands like Jacquet Droz and Breguet share movements and may benefit from support from their movement manufacturing groups (Frederic Piguet and Lemania). That leaves the one “made in Germany” brand, which may be something of a black sheep from a movement conception, component sourcing and servicing perspective.


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## louis

As you already have opened the watch, take a pair of tweezers and a small screw driver and fix it !


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## BigSeikoFan

I think the list is a major CYA that covers _any and all_ potential damage they may inflict on your watch during servicing. "Hey, what do you mean we scratched your watch? Those scratches were pre-existing. Take a look at our report."

"It's a little known fact but stainless steel _does_ in fact corrode. That's why Rolex invented 904L stainless steel..." :-d

Hell, I'd bet good money the report would be pretty much the same even if you handed them a BNIB watch as a test...


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## bigfatpauli

I don't believe that Rolex invented 904l...

As for your watch, maybe I am missing something. Yes, the screw came lose - screws can do that regardless of quality. The bulk of the damage seems to be the moister damage which, in Glashutte defense, has nothing to do with them. As others have stated, steel can corrode.


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## PJ S

^
They certainly didn’t, but then that’s possibly why BSF put a smilie at the end of that quoted text.


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## BigSeikoFan

PJ S said:


> ^
> They certainly didn't, but then that's possibly why BSF put a smilie at the end of that quoted text.


Awww, you caught me! ;-)


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## barihunk

WTSP said:


> Debates about the nature of "high endedness" aside, I too have come to the conclusion that the whole practice of watch servicing is a disaster and represents a significant barrier to anybody wanting to own more (or any) watches. As mechanical watches have gravitated into a luxury or niche market, the service people and infrastructure that existed in the hay day of mechanicals prior to the seventies has gradually disappeared. It's replacement is smaller in scale, less accessible, more expensive and seemingly less qualified.
> 
> Your watch is just another example of the ongoing horror show in servicing. To my knowledge the only real exception is Rolex, which has the volume and organizational discipline to ensure that it's still done properly.


Yup. One of the many reasons. With many of these more niche brands (i.e. not rolex or omega primarily) service equates to send your watch off to switzerland/germany with a handwritten note and hope it gets taken care of. Not satisfactory.

Good luck with your ongoing repairs OP. I hope they resolve it satisfactorily for you.


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## dkauf

Is there a sub-forum dedicated only to GO? I searched but didn't see anything


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## Peter78

dkauf said:


> Is there a sub-forum dedicated only to GO? I searched but didn't see anything


Nope. I wish that there were.


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## dkauf

Peter78 said:


> Nope. I wish that there were.


Me too!


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## jpohn

I think you’re in the right to expect better treatment, but these watch repair centres probably deal with a lot of idiocy and it leads to a bad attitude. 

If the watch is being repaired at a Swatch service centre and you think they’re treating you like a number, ask them to send it back to Glashutte in Germany. The more complicated Glashuttes go back there anyways. Found the manufacture’s own service department to be honest, to the point and efficient when I had an issue with my Panograph years ago.


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## StufflerMike

dkauf said:


> Me too!


C'mon. Asking for a GO forum ? 74 posts since 2012 and only two one line posts with very little GO content. Missing contributions here.


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## dbostedo

As always, I think people expect subforums for particular brands to be just as busy as some of the main forums. If that were the case, it would probably make sense to have all the brand subforums that people wish existed. In reality, many brand sub-forums don't get much traffic/posts/interaction. 

Another way to think of it - if there aren't already a lot of GO based threads in the high-end forum and the public forum, then there aren't going to be more GO posts simply by making a GO brand sub-forum.


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## edwinxx

It's been 1 month since I've left the watch at the service centre and other than a personal mail from GO rep Rene who assured they will look into this I haven't receive any update or call.

I've checked into the swatch service system and the only information I got from their system is "Outsourcing Accepted" on 14th March.

The watch issues aside in the end the after sales service is still by Swatch which really diminishes further the GO brand as high end for me.


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## MoreToasties

Ouch. Then again it sounds like the watch has seen some real use.

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## Likestheshiny

> The watch issues aside in the end the after sales service is still by Swatch which really diminishes further the GO brand as high end for me.


While I'm really sympathetic to the problems you're having with your watch, you seem to misunderstand what "high end" entails. It does not mean reliability, and it does not mean fast repairs. Generally, the more expensive and avant-garde your watch is, the more it will need repairs and the longer they will take. Ever hear how high-end luxury cars spend half the time at a mechanic?


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## edwinxx

So finally I got a response from them and it seems they're doing a full service at minimal charge. I can look forward to wearing the GO again but as many has pointed out, it does shake and change my perception towards the idea of owning and wearing a "High End" watch.

This Glashutte Original watch is the very first of my high end watch I have ever purchased, to mark a very special career milestone for me. This timepiece is both beautiful and meaningful to me and it just fills me with pride and joy to wear this on my wrist all the time. People often ask why do I pay such an insane price for a watch and I often respond it's because I believe in the craftmanship and build quality of the watch. However this experience does lead me to question my believe on the 'build quality and reliability' part.

I'm not sure how it feels when I get back my watch. Should it stay in the winder and case and only see the light of day once or twice a week, or should I continue wearing it as part of me and risk forking a hefty bill every 2 to 3 years. I think instead of questioning GO ability to be a 'high end watch' I should question my own definition of "high end".

Many thanks to those who gave their opinion. Certainly a mind opening experience to the realities of owning a watch.


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## StufflerMike

Thanks for the update. I own a GO PanomaticLunar since 2012 and wear it regulary. It has not been serviced yet, still no signs of wear and tear and still working flawlessly as one should expect from a high-end watch (+3 sec/24hrs).









Not my first GO and what I stated above was valid for the other GO as well until it got stolen in London in 2011. Served me well for 10 years without any service and, of course, no flaws.









Would I buy another GO ? Yes, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. But according to reason I bought something to share enjoyment of life with my wife......something running faster than a GO









However, I think that Glashütte Original complied with your complaint in the end and that's what matters.


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## De Wolfe

First of all, I wouldn't put GO as high-end, but more mid-high side (except for few high end models they have).

Secondly, Its hard to blame the brand not knowing the conditions that watch has been through, if its 1 out of X defected watches (I don't have one so can't compare), but I hope you get what you deserve out it.


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## dbostedo

edwinxx said:


> ...should I continue wearing it as part of me and risk forking a hefty bill every 2 to 3 years.


Well there's no reason to think that you're repaired GO is any less reliable than any other watch you own. It's not like because it had an issue once, it's destined to have more problems.

It's possible that it's a "lemon", but it's exceedingly unlikely.


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## WTSP

Likestheshiny said:


> While I'm really sympathetic to the problems you're having with your watch, you seem to misunderstand what "high end" entails. It does not mean reliability, and it does not mean fast repairs. Generally, the more expensive and avant-garde your watch is, the more it will need repairs and the longer they will take. Ever hear how high-end luxury cars spend half the time at a mechanic?


This is absolutely true. Also, it seems to me that there is a perception and a lot of marketing pushing the concept that watches are eternal. In fact they are a consumable good that is more durable than most.


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## edwinxx

I'm locking this thread mainly because I have made my voice heard and I've gotten a lot of helpful response from you guys. As many mentioned earlier my perception of the term "High End" may be a bit distorted and I always assume high end equals to "Indestructible". The funny thing is while I was tad annoyed by how easily the issues I have with my GO but I'm still eager to get it back to my wrist and continue wearing it on my wrist like I used to.

I'll still do some 'soul searching' about what I as a 'High End' watch but that's a topic for another thread. Thank you Moderator Mike for the assistance you provided and the rest who responded which I have leartn a lot more about the realities of watch collecting and watch ownership. Really made me appreciate more the passion of the watchuseek community.

Will spam more photos of my serviced GO once I get it back for sure.

edit : Mods feel free to lock this thread as it has served it's purpose.


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## mlcor

edwinxx said:


> I'm locking this thread mainly because I have made my voice heard and I've gotten a lot of helpful response from you guys. As many mentioned earlier my perception of the term "High End" may be a bit distorted and I always assume high end equals to "Indestructible". The funny thing is while I was tad annoyed by how easily the issues I have with my GO but I'm still eager to get it back to my wrist and continue wearing it on my wrist like I used to.
> 
> I'll still do some 'soul searching' about what I as a 'High End' watch but that's a topic for another thread. Thank you Moderator Mike for the assistance you provided and the rest who responded which I have leartn a lot more about the realities of watch collecting and watch ownership. Really made me appreciate more the passion of the watchuseek community.
> 
> Will spam more photos of my serviced GO once I get it back for sure.


Well, if you want indestructible (or the nearest facsimile to it), there are two options at opposite ends of the spectrum--you can get a G-Shock for $100 (which is what I wear for truly vigorous activities), or you can get a Richard Mille for $1,000,000. He designs pieces actually worn by professional athletes while they're playing golf, tennis, etc.

Otherwise, most mechanical watches work on the same principles and have the same vulnerabilities. The higher end pieces with more complications will, simply due to their complexity, have more potential for problems. I probably baby my high end pieces too much, since most are designed to absorb a reasonable amount of punishment. But I can't help myself.


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## WTSP

@Edwinxx, since when do regular users get to determine when threads are closed? This thread should remain open by default for all to comment as they see fit or until any forum rules are broken.


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## dbostedo

WTSP said:


> @Edwinxx, since when do regular users get to determine when threads are closed? This thread should remain open by default for all to comment as they see fit or until any forum rules are broken.


There are other forums out there, where threads are frequently locked once the main question/purpose of the thread has been answered. This prevents digressions that should be in their own thread, and prevents zombie threads from reappearing. Prehaps the OP is familiar with forums like that.

Most I've seen though, are like this one, where threads are left open to allow for free flow and discussion of the topic. That seems to be the preference on most I've participated in. I've seen several new or new-ish users on forums I participate in say "please lock my thread, I have my answer" or something like what the OP posted. I think it's just a vestige of those other forums and other forum management style.

But perhaps the OP can comment...


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## WTSP

dbostedo said:


> There are other forums out there, where threads are frequently locked once the main question/purpose of the thread has been answered. This prevents digressions that should be in their own thread, and prevents zombie threads from reappearing. Prehaps the OP is familiar with forums like that.
> 
> Most I've seen though, are like this one, where threads are left open to allow for free flow and discussion of the topic. That seems to be the preference on most I've participated in. I've seen several new or new-ish users on forums I participate in say "please lock my thread, I have my answer" or something like what the OP posted. I think it's just a vestige of those other forums and other forum management style.
> 
> But perhaps the OP can comment...


Ah, I stand corrected then. I've been too loyal to Watchuseek. I've only ever participated in two other watch forums, neither of which had this thread closure practice. Personally I like to see past threads revisited with new content. It's true that sometimes it doesn't lead anywhere, but other times it creates an opportunity to cumulate knowledge. Through the years other users may want to add their experiences about GO's customer service. It's better to have long threads than multiple threads on the same topic.


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## HRC-E.B.

Did I read somewhere that the watch had been opened up before being handed over to GO for servicing? Could that not explain the water ingress?


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## edwinxx

dbostedo said:


> There are other forums out there, where threads are frequently locked once the main question/purpose of the thread has been answered. This prevents digressions that should be in their own thread, and prevents zombie threads from reappearing. Prehaps the OP is familiar with forums like that.
> 
> Most I've seen though, are like this one, where threads are left open to allow for free flow and discussion of the topic. That seems to be the preference on most I've participated in. I've seen several new or new-ish users on forums I participate in say "please lock my thread, I have my answer" or something like what the OP posted. I think it's just a vestige of those other forums and other forum management style.
> 
> But perhaps the OP can comment...


The main issue of this thread was to question GO place in the 'high end' watch category due to my disappointment with the watch condition after barely 3 years of use. However most users point out that 'High End' doesn't equals to durability and 'hardiness' and most response here revolves around the definition of a 'High End' watch which I believe is a separate debate and irrelevant to the thread title.



HRC-E.B. said:


> Did I read somewhere that the watch had been opened up before being handed over to GO for servicing? Could that not explain the water ingress?


Nope. First time opened was in the Swatch Service Centre in Malaysia. that's when they reported signs of water penetration and rust/corrosion in the movement.


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## StufflerMike

Summa summarum I come to the conclusion that the headline of this thread perhaps was an expression of some dissatisfaction and therefore provocatively phrased, but one can not deny the simple fact that Glashütte Original is, of course, high-end. This can not be obscured by the described individual case. However, the wording aroused the interest of a the GO HQ in Glashütte and resulted in a service (almost?) FOC.

What puzzles me more is that it seems to be completely unclear how and why moisture has penetrated the watch. I failed to find similar reports on the www so I am inclined to assume we have been talking about an isolated case here. And even if there are some simliar cases we are still talking about a small problem ( ‰ ?) which does not question the high-end capabilities. What else, for example, should the GO Excellence models be if not high-end. The Meissen Tourbillon not high-end ?









But hey. that's life, a different perception and evaluation of what constitutes a complication like the Senator PDM lead to a different view.


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## JOEY10121

edwinxx said:


> Yes it's humid here. But I certainly would expect a watch of this 'quality' and price to withstand the natural weather or they won't sell it here
> 
> Hmmm...I wear it to my office work 3 times on average a week. Does that count as beating the hell out of my watch? Also I didn't know it could cause corrosion in the movement.


 I think they mite have used an electronic translator and it misinterpreted the words. The case is scratched? What does that mean, was there any standout scratch on the case?

you do not want them swapping your watch and sending you back a more crappy one. 
You better contact glashutte directly and give them the report, if you have not been swimming in your watch, then there shouldn't be corrosion. If it really is from sweat inside of the case , then that is their own fault for poor quality control, assuming you have never opened the watch before.

Was as it purchased from an authorized seller?

Is your watch still under warranty?


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## StufflerMike

Have you carefully read this thread ? I have my doubts.



JOEY10121 said:


> I think they mite have used an electronic translator and it misinterpreted the words. The case is scratched? What does that mean, was there any standout scratch on the case?
> 
> you do not want them swapping your watch and sending you back a more crappy one.
> You better contact glashutte directly and give them the report, if you have not been swimming in your watch, then there shouldn't be corrosion. If it really is from sweat inside of the case , then that is their own fault for poor quality control, assuming you have never opened the watch before.
> 
> Was as it purchased from an authorized seller?
> 
> Is your watch still under warranty?


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## zuiko

What a weird thread. As a bit of an amateur detective here is my interpretation......

Big money is spent on a watch marking a career milestone. 
Said watch is worn regularly
Problem is discovered in functioning of watch
Surprise and disgust about loose screw is expressed on forum
Owner is advised that things can and do go wrong with any item 
Watch is sent in, assessed and repaired (perhaps this thread is used as leverage)
Repair issue is resolved but reputation of brand and owner's chosen watch is tarnished
Dirty laundry is still out on display in forum
Owner wants to erase all signs of misgivings since selling the watch, or wearing it with the same feelings as before is more difficult with the thread out in the open

It will be interesting to see how the thread might influence the future of this watch.


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## murokello

edwinxx said:


> Yes it's humid here. But I certainly would expect a watch of this 'quality' and price to withstand the natural weather or they won't sell it here
> 
> Hmmm...I wear it to my office work 3 times on average a week. Does that count as beating the hell out of my watch? Also I didn't know it could cause corrosion in the movement.


How can you make that much damage and scrathes to the watch just by wearing it 3 times per week at the office?


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## Unsubscriber

edwinxx said:


> The main issue of this thread was to question GO place in the 'high end' watch category due to my disappointment with the watch condition after barely 3 years of use. However most users point out that 'High End' doesn't equals to durability and 'hardiness' and most response here revolves around the definition of a 'High End' watch which I believe is a separate debate and irrelevant to the thread title.


I stumbled upon this thread as a newcomer to GO and an interest in the Senator Hand Date. Having read it through in one go, Edwin, my sense is that some (including Moderator Mike) are reacting to the somewhat harsh tone. Your frustration is understandable - we spend a good deal of money, time, and hope on these little machines and, as I well know, it's very upsetting when things go awry. But it sounds as if they're doing right by you (as they did by another member whose watch they fully replaced when his repairs didn't go smoothly), or at least are trying to. Since you've asked for our attention, it would be helpful to hear the conclusion of this story. It sounds like you, too, still have warm feelings about the watch and are anticipating its return so I'm hoping it will be a satisfying outcome. And I'm certainly not less inclined to try out the Hand Date!


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## edwinxx

Unsubscriber said:


> I stumbled upon this thread as a newcomer to GO and an interest in the Senator Hand Date. Having read it through in one go, Edwin, my sense is that some (including Moderator Mike) are reacting to the somewhat harsh tone. Your frustration is understandable - we spend a good deal of money, time, and hope on these little machines and, as I well know, it's very upsetting when things go awry. But it sounds as if they're doing right by you (as they did by another member whose watch they fully replaced when his repairs didn't go smoothly), or at least are trying to. Since you've asked for our attention, it would be helpful to hear the conclusion of this story. It sounds like you, too, still have warm feelings about the watch and are anticipating its return so I'm hoping it will be a satisfying outcome. And I'm certainly not less inclined to try out the Hand Date!


Any GO is a beauty to own and wear. In fact I'm willing to pay any price to have my GO back on my wrist, maintenance and repair cost be damned.

As mention earlier I'm just disappointed due to my expectation that any high end watch is eternal and indestructible. I would like this thread to continue to be viewed for public viewing simply because this incident hit me with the realization that watch isn't as "eternal" as it is promoted to be. In the end it's still a tool which requires maintenance and care and calibration like all machinery. This whole experience just made me realize the reality of watch owning and will probably make me consider reliability and serviceability as a main issue in my next watch acquisition (VC Patrimony you're so beautiful T_T)

Just to update my watch is due to complete service by 10th May.


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## Rachdanon

The OPs puported use definitely is not in line with the damage. The damage gives me the image the watch has been used for some outdoor activity throughout the 2+years. Corrosion?? That's like some harsh environment consistently during those 2+years...even then corrosion is unlikely. The watch has 50m water resistance. The problem is he has no way to show it has been used for office wear only...even if this is a lemon, this disparity between use and damage is very strange.....

OP might want to leverage on the screw being lose, because no amount of misuse can loosen the screw to that extent...unless you're a professional mountain biker who uses a dress watch for training on the trails or something bizarre...


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## Rachdanon

Spangles said:


> A skilled and trusted independent watchmaker is the way to go, if at all possible.


There is wisdom in this....


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## jpohn

When you get the watch back from repair, keep a close eye on it. If the watch begins to show the same signs of damage, document it and open up a dialogue with Glashutte’s service representative. 

I’ve never really thought of fine watches as indestructible. When I turn my Glashutte over and look at the finely finished movement, I’m actually impressed that it has been decently durable. I’m probably easy to impress in this regard, or I’ve been snakebitten by bad past experiences.

Remember those Valijoux 7750s and ETA 2824s. When people refer to them as tractors, it’s often meant in a loving way. Those industrially made and finished movements can stand up to a lot of abuse.


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## Rachdanon

Was browsing other forums, and came across a regular and rather well heeled forumer at The Rolex Forums who had screws falling off in 4 of his Richard Milles...it can't get much more high end than that....so I wouldn't de-label "high end" from GO just from screws falling off haha. Check it out here : https://www.instagram.com/conkers1971/?hl=en


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## Zama

My experience with the swatch group is that they will label even the most minute, hardly recognizable things just to avoid potential trouble.

In my case, I sent in an Omega Dark Side for a warranty repair on the lume on the dial (improperly printed). The watch was about 2 months old and, because of the ceramic case, absolutely blemish free.

Omega still noted "light case and bezel wear". Surprised me but I figured they were just covering themselves.

Anyways I get my watch back, take to the bezel and case with a loupe out of curiosity.... there are no micro scratches even to be found. Which solidifies in my mind the idea that they write it just to cover themselves.

My question is as follows: Did you, as the OP, notice any corrosion on your watch case either before OR after the service? No? Then you are crying about milk that hasn't even been spilt.


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## vindicate

Honestly, they'll do anything to get the most money from you during the service, even though it's something very minor. I brought a Lange in for a routine servicing before (mind you, it's a safe queen, almost never taken out to wear - only to admire), and they said I needed to replace the entire dial and hands due to "oxidisation", which costs close to 5 grand. Obviously, I didn't go through with that.


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## Cresta

A sample size of one is not a good basis to evaluate an entire brand. I've only read great things about GO and was very impressed when I borrowed a Panograph for a month. 
I have had bad experiences with Swatch group servicing though, with 2 different watches so far.


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## Likestheshiny

> The main issue of this thread was to question GO place in the 'high end' watch category due to my disappointment with the watch condition after barely 3 years of use. However most users point out that 'High End' doesn't equals to durability and 'hardiness' and most response here revolves around the definition of a 'High End' watch which I believe is a separate debate and irrelevant to the thread title.


If your intent was not to connect the high-end nature of GO watches to their durability, then your OP was very badly written.


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## destrodan

My personal opinion is that GO matches JLC in quality, fit and finish. And regarding history, I will say that both have the same long and superlative storyline. JLC history is well-known as the “watchmakers’ watchmaker”. But most folks don’t realize that GO was the amalgamation of all quality Glashutte watch companies in East Germany — this includes powerhouse ALS — first as GUB then as GO, so it technically is the modern-day continuation of ‘ALS’ (whereas the current ‘ALS’ is a romantic Richemont restart using a lot of Swiss money and the ALS namesake, Walter ... kind-of like like how Blancpain was restarted). And after the fall of East Germany, GO continued as a private concern before being picked up by Swatch.

All of that said, if you are looking for robustness in a mechanical, I would suggest Rolex.

I’ve heard enough horror stories over the years about practically all brands as to warrant no ironclad ‘guarantee’ in my head when making a purchase. But what I do know is that these quality companies can make right what was wrong in the first place. And in the world of disposable everything, I appreciate this value proposition.

I hope all works out for the best.


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## StufflerMike

Sorry. You need to invest a bit of time for researching Glashütte watchmaking history. Your history part is totally wrong. There was no GO in the GDR so GO couldn‘t continue what never existed before. And you seem to forget that GO claims a huge part of the Glashütte history which belongs to ALS. You also did not mention that France Ebauche was engaged in Glashütte after the wall came down. When Walter Lange re-established ALS in 1990 there was no Richemont. Richemont came into play in 2001. One name needs to be mentioned - Günter Blümlein supported ALS financially and personally. At that time he was President of IWC which at that time was under the umbrella of VDO. 
And it should be noted that Swatch took over GO already in 2000.


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## Zama

stuffler said:


> Sorry. You need to invest a bit of time for researching Glashütte watchmaking history. Your history part is totally wrong. There was no GO in the GDR so GO couldn't continue what never existed before. And you seem to forget that GO claims a huge part of the Glashütte history which belongs to ALS. You also did not mention that France Ebauche was engaged in Glashütte after the wall came down. When Walter Lange re-established ALS in 1990 there was no Richemont. Richemont came into play in 2001. One name needs to be mentioned - Günter Blümlein supported ALS financially and personally. At that time he was President of IWC which at that time was under the umbrella of VDO.
> And it should be noted that Swatch took over GO already in 2000.


I think its a bit unfair to GO to act like they have no claim to history pre-1994 though?

Is it not the case that Glashutte Original as it exists today is essentially the modern continuation of GUB, which was itself made up of brands such as ALS?

My understanding was that several german brands such as ALS were (unwillingly) merged into GUB in the late 1940s or 50s. Then GUB essentially became Glashutte Original after an ownership and name change in 1994? If my understanding is correct then I believe that GO does have a strong claim to that heritage, even if their name isnt the same.


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## destrodan

Oh dear, Mike, you misunderstood in believing that I thought GO existed under East Germany. I meant they were GUB until the fall of East Germany and then morphed into GO. My apologies that I wasn't more clear in my post ... but I do know the history quite well.

That being said, I would also suggest that you are misrepresenting the current ALS company, as Zama points out, when you state that "GO claims a huge part of the Glashütte history which belongs to ALS". GO clearly has right to the history of ALS within GO up until the 'romantic' restart of ALS. Again, I just cite the facts. If you have facts that suggest that ALS was somehow not subsumed into GUB, which became GO, I would be interested in hearing it. But if you don't, then GO has claim to that history -- it doesn't "belong" to the ALS restart. And the new ALS shouldn't feel like it needs to 'steal' history that doesn't belong to it.

I am not making any insinuations that the current ALS is not better finished than GO, but GO does represent historical ALS. And ALS in the early Walter years didn't hide these facts. But over time it has become a bit of a thing to deny that GO carried (and still carries to a large degree) ALS history within it.

Also, there was a large influx of Richemont money into ALS starting at acquisition. Not sure why you would disagree with this?

Thanks,
Dan



stuffler said:


> Sorry. You need to invest a bit of time for researching Glashütte watchmaking history. Your history part is totally wrong. There was no GO in the GDR so GO couldn't continue what never existed before. And you seem to forget that GO claims a huge part of the Glashütte history which belongs to ALS. You also did not mention that France Ebauche was engaged in Glashütte after the wall came down. When Walter Lange re-established ALS in 1990 there was no Richemont. Richemont came into play in 2001. One name needs to be mentioned - Günter Blümlein supported ALS financially and personally. At that time he was President of IWC which at that time was under the umbrella of VDO.
> And it should be noted that Swatch took over GO already in 2000.


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## Rivarama

This is an interesting discussion. Didn't the Russians level the ALS factory?


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## edwinxx

Just and update for you guys. Swatch service centre say I can expect to get my watch back by end of June. That's an estimated 3 months. Guess they're disassembling and re-assembling the GO.


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## Split sec

Glashutte Original High End?

"GO" is highly organized firm, with wonderful workshops, great watches. Superlatives only.























History. 
All German watch producers, firms, were united, melted in, "Glashütter Uhrenbetrieb GmbH", GUB, 1951. Till then, from after the II War til 1951, some Lange watches were produced. Russians took all the machines in Russia and lot of workers too. Speaking about continuation of any firm is not possible.

After Reunion, 1994, all the company was privatized. Lange & Sohne was both back by family. All other, including "GO" and "L&S", had started from beginning, zero.

One of old Lange & Sohne buildings








Firms like "Glashütter Uhrenfabrik Union", found in 1893, reborn. But it was a new beginning.

Old stuff







New stuff








Just a quick and pure about history and tradition.

Glashutte Original High End?

I shall put some pics from "Lang & Heyne" workshop first.

















And make watches (movements) as this:








This is "High End" and above. A real meaning of handwork. They done 50 watches last year.

"GO" is highly organized firm, with wonderful workshops, great watches, great professional stuff. Superlatives only. But this is "industrial production" with lot of handwork. Not a "High End"

And now, what have you done with a watch. It is to good that this happens. You did not "close" your watch and water (humidity) gets in or you did something even worst. Rust on the movement can be only your mistake. So, independent, good and trusty watchmaker is your solution.


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## Likestheshiny

> "GO" is highly organized firm, with wonderful workshops, great watches, great professional stuff. Superlatives only. But this is "industrial production" with lot of handwork. Not a "High End"


And if you choose to use that definition of "high end," you're welcome to. However, it's not the usage generally followed in the industry, and not the one applied to this forum. And it's certainly not the one the Op was using, so offering your own definition in this thread doesn't really achieve much.


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## Split sec

Sorry but I simply do not understand what do you want to say.
I want to say that GO "high end" class is questionable and that in one waterresist watch humidity can not get in without owner misstaken handling. "High end" we could discuss.


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## destrodan

Split Sec, your suggestion is incorrect that 'Lange & Sohne was both back by family. All other, including "GO" and "L&S", had started from beginning, zero.'

I normally don't quote Hodinkee, but they got this one right from my research:

"Fast forward to the end of World War II: Glashütte was bombed, and suffered extensive damage. To make matters worse, after the war the Soviet army demanded reparations from Glashütte in the form of tools and machinery. The Glashütte watchmaking industry was not in good shape, but they never stopped making watches. In fact, this period of time directly aided Glashütte in getting to where they are today, as the postwar hard times forced watchmakers in Glashütte to figure out how to make everything themselves. They no longer could rely on outside suppliers for springs, jewels, or even machinery. Today we use the term in-house to describe a watchmaking brand that makes all of their parts themselves; for the Glashütte industry it wasn't just a marketing point, but rather, a necessity for survival.

The GDR government soon decided to combine all of the existing watchmaking companies in Glashütte into one state-owned enterprise, VEB Glashütter Uhrenbetriebe (GUB). Today, the legal successor to GUB is Glashütte Original."

I have one of the ALS large Marine Chronometers that had found its way to the Black Sea after WWII. ALS were prized precision instruments in Russia.

Furthermore, the Hodinkee article states:

"Restoration Workshop

Back at the Museum in Glashütte, Glashütte Original operates a restoration workshop under the careful eye of watchmaker Jurgen Franke. The restoration workshop will work on any watch that meets two simple rules: it must be of Glashütte origin, and it must be made before 1990 (German reunification).

As we were walking out of the restoration workshop, I noticed a watch that he was working on – a late 19th-century pocket watch from A. Lange & Söhne. This speaks volumes about the ethos of watchmaking in Glashütte. The restoration workshop and museum are run by Glashütte Original, they pay the bills. However, their mission goes beyond just business. Glashütte Original, and all of the watchmaking brands in Glashütte, are carrying on the German watchmaking tradition in a way that the entire world can admire."


Do you find it odd that GO is repairing ALS pocket watches while the resurrected ALS, who is supposed to own all historical things ALS, exists just around the corner from GO? It would be like Rolex deciding to repair certain Panerais ... which makes no sense at all ... unless Rolex had some historical connection to Panerai.

Along with the legal ownership and historical lineage of GO, think about that one for a bit.

As an aside, Marco Lang, of Lang & Heyne, is a member of AHCI -- an Independent. I don't agree with you that the only watches that can be 'high end' are Independents like Lange, or Dufour, or RW Smith.


----------



## destrodan

destrodan said:


> ... Independents like * Lang*, or Dufour, or RW Smith.


Fixed.


----------



## Split sec

Hello destrodan. You are right. I was very wrong. "Glashutte Original" is successor of GUB. My apology to everyone. Museum in Glashutte is suported, in all senses, by "GO".














This is, you was right again, why we find Lange & Sohne in restoration workshop there, and new L&S factory is so close.


























(just a few pics from museum)
But. All other firms from Glashutte are with "clear" start, from zero. One example, but other were in same situation: "We didn't have much at that point," Walter Lange recalls. "We had no watches that we could build and sell; we had no employees, no building and no machines." About independent watchmaker. It is not at the end of my mind that only independent can make "high end" watches. I wanted to use extreme examples. By L&H, only one screw is produced in few hours, with adequate price, sure. The hands are made piece by piece...... but this demonstrate the two different ways of production. All was to describe why, in my opinion, GO is not "high end". But later, it made me think what is, exactly, "high end". So, again, I might be wrong. GO can be "high end". But this is just my opinion. In thread about Chopard, one ask what is this quality. And I ask, what is "high end"?


----------



## Cocas

edwinxx said:


> Just and update for you guys. Swatch service centre say I can expect to get my watch back by end of June. That's an estimated 3 months. Guess they're disassembling and re-assembling the GO.


Hope everything will turn out fine to your GO. Please share the condition of your watch after receiving from service center. Your report is going to determine whether or not I should drop GO from my grail watch list.

Thanks.

Note: I am from Malaysia too Bro!


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## dbostedo

Cocas said:


> Hope everything will turn out fine to your GO. Please share the condition of your watch after receiving from service center. Your report is going to determine whether or not I should drop GO from my grail watch list.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Note: I am from Malaysia too Bro!


You shouldn't let any single instance for any brand of anything sway you that much. There's no such thing as a perfect product or company. A single incident happens all the time... trends are important - not just one bad watch.


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## WTSP

dbostedo said:


> You shouldn't let any single instance for any brand of anything sway you that much. There's no such thing as a perfect product or company. A single incident happens all the time... trends are important - not just one bad watch.


Also since watch servicing for most brands other than Rolex have a 50% return rate or higher, it's more than likely that the OP's watch will take more than one trip to the service centre.


----------



## StufflerMike

WTSP said:


> Also since watch servicing for most brands other than Rolex have a 50% return rate or higher, it's more than likely that the OP's watch will take more than one trip to the service centre.


Any proof this is true for GO as well ?


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## WTSP

stuffler said:


> Any proof this is true for GO as well ?


Specific to GO? Not from me. Here's one story that seems fairly typical of any service centre. Lume on new hand was so poor that the owner had some resent to Toronto Swatch service centre.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f8/glashutte-original-usa-repairs-295764.html#/topics/295764

From what I understand, GO will usually be serviced at the local Swatch centre when possible but will occasionally be sent or parts ordered from Germany when necessary.

I don't expect GO to be particularly bad. It's just that par for the course in servicing is for an issue to appear after the servicing has been complete at least half the time regardless of brand.


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## dbostedo

WTSP said:


> It's just that par for the course in servicing is for an issue to appear after the servicing has been complete at least half the time regardless of brand.


I can't imagine that's even close to true (and I don't have data either). But if you're basing "half the time" on handfuls of anecdotes and internet reports, it's likely that you're skewing way too high. You'd have to be doing an awfully lot wrong and an awful lot of poor processes and a lot of not caring about your work to have half your services result in a return and reservice. The service operations would be motivated to do better to keep service costs down, as doing them again would be a lot more expensive.


----------



## WTSP

dbostedo said:


> I can't imagine that's even close to true (and I don't have data either). But if you're basing "half the time" on handfuls of anecdotes and internet reports, it's likely that you're skewing way too high. You'd have to be doing an awfully lot wrong and an awful lot of poor processes and a lot of not caring about your work to have half your services result in a return and reservice. The service operations would be motivated to do better to keep service costs down, as doing them again would be a lot more expensive.


I say this based on my personal experience, which is closer to an 80% return rate. It's also base on conversations that I've had woth personnel from various watch boutiques. One in particular whom I had a good relationship with and was more forthcoming stated this figure of approximately 50%. He stated that Rolex was close to the only brand that gets it right, which is to say has a return rate after servicing of less than 20%.

I don't regard my personal experience as exceptional because I've dealt with a lare variety of service centres in different geographies and of various types. I've been to the authorized regional centres, the central Swiss ones, and local independents. The rate of success is about the same regardless of location and type. I hand delivered a watch practically direct to the Girard Perregaux in Switzerland only to have it come back running five minutes fast per day. A local independent pressure tested one of my Tissots with the case back not fully sealed and with a bunch of other issues with the winding. An official Swatch service centre gave me back a JeanRichard based on a 2824/Dubois Depraz 2020 chronograph running at -15 seconds per day. I had an Ebel which a local second hand dealer return to me three time with grease on the dial and under side of the crystal. I can give other examples of misaligned hands, chronos not resetting properly, rotating bezels not being fixed properly, and more. I'm not being excessive in expecting better service than this am I?

dbostedo, how many watches have you ever had serviced and how many were you able to slap back on your wrist after getting them back without spotting any issues? I'd like to hear from other forum members as to what their success/return rate is? I'm also waiting to see what happens with this GO, because I'm betting that it will go back to the service centre at least once.


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## dbostedo

WTSP said:


> dbostedo, how many watches have you ever had serviced and how many were you able to slap back on your wrist after getting them back without spotting any issues? I'd like to hear from other forum members as to what their success/return rate is? I'm also waiting to see what happens with this GO, because I'm betting that it will go back to the service centre at least once.


I've only had a few watches serviced and haven't seen an issue - so not much experience. I'd like to see data on it... Just in general for any type of manufacturing or service, that kind of failure rate sounds really high. Wouldn't all of those returns cost them a lot? Wouldn't a service center or shop make more money by getting it right the first time and not having to provide additional service for free?


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## Cocas

I tested my vintage GUB Glashutte Spezimatic for more than 6 months and all working well. Saw the movement is in perfect condition after half century passed
So it beefing my confidence to go for a brand new GO.


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## jpohn

Sent my Glashutte Original Panograph in for servicing twice. Once in 2009 for minor damage incurred when the watch was shipped to me and once in 2013 for a routine servicing. Both times the watch was dropped off the watch at my local Swatch Centre. Both times it was shipped to Germany. Both times the servicing work was immaculate.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WTSP

jpohn said:


> Sent my Glashutte Original Panograph in for servicing twice. Once in 2009 for minor damage incurred when the watch was shipped to me and once in 2013 for a routine servicing. Both times the watch was dropped off the watch at my local Swatch Centre. Both times it was shipped to Germany. Both times the servicing work was immaculate.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good to hear it!


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## Ugly-Nugget

This was an interesting read.

The only real thing that could account for moister getting into the watch would be leaving the stem out while wearing it and it could be easy to do and forget about. Sometimes you have to look at it from the service centers point of view, they hear it all when a watch comes in for service.

As for the term high end it can't be assumed that because something is high end that it is more reliable. Do Lamborghini's or Farari's break down, of course they do and they tend to need special skill sets for the people repairing them. Which also in turn takes longer because when they break it is usually harder to fix and takes parts that may not be readily available. 

It sounds like they are doing right by you and you will have your watch back on your wrist in no time.


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## sfb

All you have to do is fix it, it happens


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## Precise

WTSP said:


> I say this based on my personal experience, which is closer to an 80% return rate. It's also base on conversations that I've had woth personnel from various watch boutiques. One in particular whom I had a good relationship with and was more forthcoming stated this figure of approximately 50%. He stated that Rolex was close to the only brand that gets it right, which is to say has a return rate after servicing of less than 20%.
> 
> I don't regard my personal experience as exceptional because I've dealt with a lare variety of service centres in different geographies and of various types. I've been to the authorized regional centres, the central Swiss ones, and local independents. The rate of success is about the same regardless of location and type. I hand delivered a watch practically direct to the Girard Perregaux in Switzerland only to have it come back running five minutes fast per day. A local independent pressure tested one of my Tissots with the case back not fully sealed and with a bunch of other issues with the winding. An official Swatch service centre gave me back a JeanRichard based on a 2824/Dubois Depraz 2020 chronograph running at -15 seconds per day. I had an Ebel which a local second hand dealer return to me three time with grease on the dial and under side of the crystal. I can give other examples of misaligned hands, chronos not resetting properly, rotating bezels not being fixed properly, and more. I'm not being excessive in expecting better service than this am I?
> 
> dbostedo, how many watches have you ever had serviced and how many were you able to slap back on your wrist after getting them back without spotting any issues? I'd like to hear from other forum members as to what their success/return rate is? I'm also waiting to see what happens with this GO, because I'm betting that it will go back to the service centre at least once.


I had a local, and recommended 50 year-old, very experienced, watchmaker wreck a Fortis while replacing the crystal. But that's nothing compared to your experience. I find it very troubling. I'll bet that service centers find it difficult to recruit good watchmakers.

Last month I tossed a dead $600 Seiko in the trash. It was less than a year old. But I'd had an awful factory service from Seiko recently and didn't have the stomach to face their crap again.

My watch hobby has gradually moved towards more expensive watches. But your post gives me pause.

One thing I've previously observed is that as I become more financially able to collect more adult "toys", that _a burden of maintenance accompanies these toys_. Even if the maintenance experience is ok, I'm asking myself if I really want this burden.


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## WTSP

That is absolutely the same conclusion I've come to. The watch industry needs to know that in order to sell more watches they need to improve service.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/what%...ke-more-than-one-try-fix-watch-4738715-2.html


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## edwinxx

Just an update, I haven't gotten back my watch and Swatch service centre isn't replying my email. Reaching 4 months now.



Cocas said:


> Hope everything will turn out fine to your GO. Please share the condition of your watch after receiving from service center. Your report is going to determine whether or not I should drop GO from my grail watch list.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Note: I am from Malaysia too Bro!


The GO watch itself iss amazing. While I can accept the loose screw as a one off manufacturing defect, I'm a bit more worried about how did the moisture got inside and corrode the movement. Prelim inspection suggest that moisture from my sweat got in to the watch which I feel impractical if you wear it in a tropical country like Malaysia (Walk 5 minutes outside KL and you're already sweating). However I'll wait till I get back my watch and have a full report to see what's the case.

Hope my experience with GO helps.


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## edwinxx

I just received my go from the service centre yesterday and during the collection I thought the watch was fine. However once home I realize when looking at the sweeping seconds that it seems to stutter and isn't ticking consistently. I videoed the moment just to see if my eyes was deceiving me








The time keeping aspect of the watch is still consistent though. Please advice what's causing the situation. I simply dread sending it back to swatch for another few months.


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## WTSP

Assuming that the video accurately shows what's happening with the seconds hand (and that it isn't relating to image refresh or download rate), that does look rather unusual. It's a bit like the hand on a quartz watch when the battery needs to be reset. Perhaps the oils are a little thick and it will even out over time. If I were you I'd let the AD/service center know about the problem, but tell them that you'll keep it for a week or two to see if it corrects itself.

Of course if it doesn't fix itself and you have to send it back, we may have to conclude that I TOTALLY CALLED IT.



WTSP said:


> I'm also waiting to see what happens with this GO, because I'm betting that it will go back to the service centre at least once.


Swatch can't support its own products. One shouldn't generalize from individual cases, but this is a prime example of what's wrong in the watch industry. SUPPORT YOUR PRODUCTS PROPERLY OR WE WON'T BUY THEM! </rant>


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## dbostedo

Is a regular video any good for showing seconds hand movement? It's 24 or 30 frames per second, where your watch hand is moving at 6 or 8 little stutters per second. Couldn't the merger of those two rates make the second hand movement look funny? Do you have any way to film at a much higher frame rate?


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## edwinxx

I did a 60 second video in HD 60fps for a clearer view, and put my good old Tissot T-One 2824-2 for comparison (which reminds me it's badly in need of servicing now)


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## themeister

Lol I can't believe some people in this thread... But nvm, I just want to say I sympathize with your predicament greatly. And someone else said this is what's wrong with the watch industry. I couldn't agree more. Mechanical watches are the ultimate luxury - completely unnecessary and pure money pits. Servicing my watches is my biggest fear. I think this is inexcusable for a timepiece that costs upwards of 8 grand. The industry needs to figure out how to handle repairs and maintenance. Another reason why Rolex is deservedly number 1, and I don't even care for the brand. 

I read somewhere else another complaint about corrosion btw, while I was looking for feedback as I was considering buying a GO Senator Excellence. This wouldn't dissuade me normally, but now I find myself reconsidering having more than a couple of watches, and also buying high end mechanical timepieces altogether. It's simply too much hassle. I pay less to have my car serviced in most cases, than I do for regular maintenance of a relatively cheap mechanical watch. And there's absolutely no guarantee that I'll get it back working and looking as intended. More often than not, you have to return it again. Completely agree with whoever mentioned this before, and yes sir - you called it in this case. 

Buying luxury mechanical watches is pretty much the worst possible thing you could do as far as money is concerned. Anyway, keep us updated on the situation.


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## TedPhatana

Can always go Andy Warhol style, get a manual wind, never wind it, and say it’s for style, not time.


----------



## Jamesy87

edwinxx said:


> I did a 60 second video in HD 60fps for a clearer view, and put my good old Tissot T-One 2824-2 for comparison (which reminds me it's badly in need of servicing now)


Oh gosh this is bad, even after full service its still not running properly. You really need to lodge a complaint on this.


----------



## PJ S

*Re: Update*

Time the watch, I'd be unsurprised if it's well over +15 secs out.
Check positional variation too.
I'm presuming these videos were taken whilst the watch was in a near fully wound state?
It looks like the torque from the mainspring isn't being evenly delivered - whether that's the spring itself or an escapement issue, assuming magnetism isn't involved, I don't know.
The Lepsi app for your phone will let you see if it registers as magnetised. If you have a local watch repairer handy, ask him to put it on his timegrapher. The info will be useful when contacting GO about it, and ask for a partial refund or some other form of compensation for the hassle and disappointment.


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## edwinxx

WTSP said:


> Assuming that the video accurately shows what's happening with the seconds hand (and that it isn't relating to image refresh or download rate), that does look rather unusual. It's a bit like the hand on a quartz watch when the battery needs to be reset. Perhaps the oils are a little thick and it will even out over time. If I were you I'd let the AD/service center know about the problem, but tell them that you'll keep it for a week or two to see if it corrects itself.
> 
> Of course if it doesn't fix itself and you have to send it back, we may have to conclude that I TOTALLY CALLED IT.
> 
> Swatch can't support its own products. One shouldn't generalize from individual cases, but this is a prime example of what's wrong in the watch industry. SUPPORT YOUR PRODUCTS PROPERLY OR WE WON'T BUY THEM! </rant>


Yeap you totally called it. It's now back to Swatch Service Centre who just informed me it's back to Singapore Swatch Service Centre Again. At this point I'm not sure what I want to expect. I've heard horror stories from after service experience especially from Omega owners but never cross my mind that I would experience this myself. Shame.


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## KtWUS

Wow that second hand action looks terrifying


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## TKiteCD

Had a friend who had a "GO" diving watch, and all the screws in the case back were falling out. He was nuts over it at first, all ga ga etc - even sold his Rolex Sea Dweller thinking this new at the time "GO" was the cats meow. Guess what he owns now? Rolex Sea Dweller. Actually, he now owns two Rolex Sea Dwellers. He learned his lesson.


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## Jazzmaster

This thread should have died a death a long time ago...


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## Jeremy2101

Anyone else have this much trouble with a GO? Heavily considering a panomatic lunar for the next purchase.


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## edwinxx

Just got a call from GO in Germany. They already repaired the watch and it'll be ready for collection in the next few days. Fingers crossed that's the end of it. I'll post my thoughts from this whole experience with regards to my perception of GO as a high end brand and this whole Swatch group servicing experience once I get my watch back and confirmed serviced into good condition.


----------



## Jazzmaster

...


----------



## Jeremy2101

Jazzmaster said:


> edwinxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just got a call from GO in Germany. They already repaired the watch and it'll be ready for collection in the next few days. Fingers crossed that's the end of it. I'll post my thoughts from this whole experience with regards to my perception of GO as a high end brand and this whole Swatch group servicing experience once I get my watch back and confirmed serviced into good condition.
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares about your perception of GO as a high end brand? That's the problem with this thread to begin with -- the one has nothing to do with the other. Someone else on this forum recently posted that the crown fell off their AP RO. Should we now all question whether AP is high end as a result? Stuff happens -- across all brands, high end or not. It would never occur to me in a million years to start a thread just because I had to have a watch serviced under warranty. It's all a bit silly...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree with that totally. If I had just spent a lot of money I would be quite unsettled if this had happened to my watch as well and as a prospective GO buyer I am happy to see this thread play out. While I know no product is perfect, after dropping 5k or more I'd be concerned after getting a damage report like that. Can't say if it would affect my view of the brand as high end or not, but I certainly wouldn't put it completely past myself.

With that being said, I do think OP could have perhaps been more environmentally aware of the conditions under which this watch was being used. I wouldn't think to expect extreme durability or weather resistance for a dress watch in that tropical heat. My reaction would probably be more or less " Oh this is pretty terrible, but I guess it makes sense". If it had happened to say my Omega PO I'd be furious as well. But one is a 600m diving watch and the other has negligible water resistance.

What I do find the most useful about this thread is OP's encounters with GO service center and the hassles he has had so far in getting the watch back in running order. Yes yes, you can say he shouldn't complain that this watch is under warranty and it's being taken care of. The problem with that view is, he spent a good deal of money on the watch and now the money is locked up in it and he can't make use of the watch for extended periods of time due to their inability to correct the issue. That's value lost any way you look at it. I would think anyone who owns a GO or plans to buy a GO would find these service center dealings at least slightly interesting.


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## Jazzmaster

Jeremy2101 said:


> I'm not sure I agree with that totally. If I had just spent a lot of money I would be quite unsettled if this had happened to my watch as well and as a prospective GO buyer I am happy to see this thread play out. While I know no product is perfect, after dropping 5k or more I'd be concerned after getting a damage report like that. Can't say if it would affect my view of the brand as high end or not, but I certainly wouldn't put it completely past myself.
> 
> With that being said, I do think OP could have perhaps been more environmentally aware of the conditions under which this watch was being used. I wouldn't think to expect extreme durability or weather resistance for a dress watch in that tropical heat. My reaction would probably be more or less " Oh this is pretty terrible, but I guess it makes sense". If it had happened to say my Omega PO I'd be furious as well. But one is a 600m diving watch and the other has negligible water resistance.
> 
> What I do find the most useful about this thread is OP's encounters with GO service center and the hassles he has had so far in getting the watch back in running order. Yes yes, you can say he shouldn't complain that this watch is under warranty and it's being taken care of. The problem with that view is, he spent a good deal of money on the watch and now the money is locked up in it and he can't make use of the watch for extended periods of time due to their inability to correct the issue. That's value lost any way you look at it. I would think anyone who owns a GO or plans to buy a GO would find these service center dealings at least slightly interesting.


A couple of minutes after posting my reply last evening, I thought the better of it and deleted my post. I see that I wasn't fast enough! In any event, I may have come across as unduly harsh -- so my apologies.

That being said, I'll just say that I can't stand threads like this one, which occur in all corners of WUS. If someone wants to share an experience for the purpose of gaining some objective feedback on a technical issue they are having, that's one thing. But the general formula of "I've had to have my watch serviced, so I think I'll go ahead and slag the brand" is unfortunate. As others have posted in this thread, high-end brands are, sadly, not immune to service issues from time to time. But, one-off anecdotal tales of woe provide a rather unbalanced view of a brand as a whole.

I have had to have certain watches repaired under warranty, including my GO Seventies Chronograph. Was I happy that I had to part with the watch to have it serviced? No. Did I start a thread slagging GO? No. I sent the watch off for servicing. GO could not have been more professional, responsive and courteous in handling the entire experience. When I received the watch back, it looked brand new and has operated flawlessly ever since. I hope, OP, that this will be your experience, as well. ;-)


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## Solomente

Jeremy2101 said:


> Anyone else have this much trouble with a GO? Heavily considering a panomatic lunar for the next purchase.


No. 2.5 years with a PanoReserve and it's been flawless


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## StufflerMike

Nope, never ever had any problem with the GO watches I owned/own.


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## edwinxx

Finally I collected my watch on the 10th August (to be fair it was already ready for collection on 1st August, roughly one week after I send it for service after the whole 2nd hand fiasco)

I do promise to give my thoughts about my thoughts about GO and my whole servicing experience but based on some of the hostile replies I receive in this thread I decided to keep this thought to myself. I really held high regard to GO and my criticism of GO is really out of desire for GO to improve better. However if such is the luxury watch industry is like then I have no say in it. 

That being said I want to give a shout out to the GO team especially during the 2nd round of service. Thanks to Garina, Paula and Rene from the GO team for constantly looking at this matter right from the start. I can see they're really staffed by passionate staff who really want to work hard for the brand. I do not know how much control GO has over the swatch servicing team but to me Swatch is holding them back from being a truly high end brand. For a good watch to last long it needs good service and even though GO is a good watch out of the factory it needs continuous good servicing team to keep it that way.

I hope the facts I produced allow prospective owner to make evaluation of the brand. Some might find it acceptable some might now. As some say, I might be the unlucky 1 out of thousands of owner to have a bad experience. You make the judgement.

That's all I want to say. It's free, they gave me a new movement btw. I shouldn't complain more. 

Cheers.


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## KtWUS

edwinxx said:


> Finally I collected my watch on the 10th August (to be fair it was already ready for collection on 1st August, roughly one week after I send it for service after the whole 2nd hand fiasco)
> 
> I do promise to give my thoughts about my thoughts about GO and my whole servicing experience but based on some of the hostile replies I receive in this thread I decided to keep this thought to myself. I really held high regard to GO and my criticism of GO is really out of desire for GO to improve better. However if such is the luxury watch industry is like then I have no say in it.
> 
> That being said I want to give a shout out to the GO team especially during the 2nd round of service. Thanks to Garina, Paula and Rene from the GO team for constantly looking at this matter right from the start. I can see they're really staffed by passionate staff who really want to work hard for the brand. I do not know how much control GO has over the swatch servicing team but to me Swatch is holding them back from being a truly high end brand. For a good watch to last long it needs good service and even though GO is a good watch out of the factory it needs continuous good servicing team to keep it that way.
> 
> I hope the facts I produced allow prospective owner to make evaluation of the brand. Some might find it acceptable some might now. As some say, I might be the unlucky 1 out of thousands of owner to have a bad experience. You make the judgement.
> 
> That's all I want to say. It's free, they gave me a new movement btw. I shouldn't complain more.
> 
> Cheers.


I wonder what the average failure rate is across all the brands, probably lower than 1/1000 so you might indeed be unlucky. We should probably petition for failure rates to be made public, as well as average turnaround time for servicing.


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## WTSP

KtWUS said:


> I wonder what the average failure rate is across all the brands, probably lower than 1/1000 so you might indeed be unlucky. We should probably petition for failure rates to be made public, as well as average turnaround time for servicing.


For servicing it's far higher than one in a thousand in my opinion.

https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/what%...-try-fix-watch-4738715-2.html#/topics/4738715

Also, they replaced the whole movement!? I forget which thread or who posted this thought originally, but a WUS member once remarked that he was surprised at hearing how many of the big brands replace large numbers of parts as a routine or necessary part of servicing watches. Meanwhile you have vintage models that have beat on for decades with the same springs, gears and pinions. What's gone wrong that servicing so often goes awry and piles of parts are being replaced each time?


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## TedPhatana

Dare I say welcome to capitalism?



WTSP said:


> For servicing it's far higher than one in a thousand in my opinion.
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/what%...-try-fix-watch-4738715-2.html#/topics/4738715
> 
> Also, they replaced the whole movement!? I forget which thread or who posted this thought originally, but a WUS member once remarked that he was surprised at hearing how many of the big brands replace large numbers of parts as a routine or necessary part of servicing watches. Meanwhile you have vintage models that have beat on for decades with the same springs, gears and pinions. What's gone wrong that servicing so often goes awry and piles of parts are being replaced each time?


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## KtWUS

TedPhatana said:


> Dare I say welcome to capitalism?


Except Capitalism was well and alive when the vintage models were made as well.

I suspect its a change of culture - watches used to be serviced considerably more frequently as a matter of course, reducing the need for replacements (except the commonly broken balance staff back when shock protection had not yet become widespread). Maybe something to ask in the vintage forum!


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## edwinxx

WTSP said:


> For servicing it's far higher than one in a thousand in my opinion.
> 
> https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/what%...-try-fix-watch-4738715-2.html#/topics/4738715
> 
> Also, they replaced the whole movement!? I forget which thread or who posted this thought originally, but a WUS member once remarked that he was surprised at hearing how many of the big brands replace large numbers of parts as a routine or necessary part of servicing watches. Meanwhile you have vintage models that have beat on for decades with the same springs, gears and pinions. What's gone wrong that servicing so often goes awry and piles of parts are being replaced each time?


I would just like to mention that based on the communication from GO directly, the whole problem can be solved without a movement change. The whole gave me a new movement was a gesture of good will due to the whole "i need to return my watch after a service" fiasco.

That's what happen. I present the facts, you readers interpret yourself what you think about it. I don't want to question what they say anymore or give more opinion or thoughts. I just wanted to tell my experience and how it didn't meet my expectation with reasons and facts and I got nasty messages accusing me of trying to bring down a brand or being a spoiled brat or telling me that's how the industry works live with it don't ask better from it.


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## dbostedo

WTSP said:


> What's gone wrong that servicing so often goes awry and piles of parts are being replaced each time?


I'm guessing that it's simply a matter of cost.

This is purely theoretical, but internally a service department might be better swapping a movement than spending the time to debug what's wrong if it's not something obvious. The internal cost of the movement to them is likely fairly low, and the cost in labor to perform actual repairs might be larger. If, say, a movement costs $1000 internally and they have plenty of supply; And if they are paying someone $50 an hour to debug the issue and fix it; Then it would only take 20 hours of work until just swapping in a new movement is cheaper.

I wouldn't imagine most repairs would take 20 hours. But perhaps tricky ones could. And as soon as they figure out it's not something obvious, they might just choose to swap in a new movement. Availability of knowledgeable/skilled employees to perform the repairs also might be an issue.


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## WTSP

TedPhatana said:


> Dare I say welcome to capitalism?


Not sure how capitalism comes into play here. If anything it should lead to competition for service excellence, which doesn't seem to be the case for the current watch industry. Personally I'd like to see it encouraged more, which is why I'm eager to discuss this topic.



dbostedo said:


> I'm guessing that it's simply a matter of cost.
> 
> This is purely theoretical, but internally a service department might be better swapping a movement than spending the time to debug what's wrong if it's not something obvious. The internal cost of the movement to them is likely fairly low, and the cost in labor to perform actual repairs might be larger. If, say, a movement costs $1000 internally and they have plenty of supply; And if they are paying someone $50 an hour to debug the issue and fix it; Then it would only take 20 hours of work until just swapping in a new movement is cheaper.
> 
> I wouldn't imagine most repairs would take 20 hours. But perhaps tricky ones could. And as soon as they figure out it's not something obvious, they might just choose to swap in a new movement. Availability of knowledgeable/skilled employees to perform the repairs also might be an issue.


There's probably a lot of truth to that.


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## TedPhatana

My thought was, service more often, replace parts more often, charge customers more often meaning more revenue. I mean if you are replacing at least parts more often, would it be more charges or the same when comparing servicing from way back when to modern servicing?

Maybe I got your facts wrong thus my analysis is suspect. Would love to elaborate more on it. I could be wrong here, I been wrong before and wouldn't be surprised if I am wrong now.

Ted



WTSP said:


> Not sure how capitalism comes into play here. If anything it should lead to competition for service excellence, which doesn't seem to be the case for the current watch industry. Personally I'd like to see it encouraged more, which is why I'm eager to discuss this topic.
> 
> There's probably a lot of truth to that.


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## WTSP

TedPhatana said:


> My thought was, service more often, replace parts more often, charge customers more often meaning more revenue. I mean if you are replacing at least parts more often, would it be more charges or the same when comparing servicing from way back when to modern servicing?
> 
> Maybe I got your facts wrong thus my analysis is suspect. Would love to elaborate more on it. I could be wrong here, I been wrong before and wouldn't be surprised if I am wrong now.
> 
> Ted


That could certainly be true. Over the lifetime of a watch the owner is likely to eventually pay an equivalent or greater value in servicing. For example, my Girard Perregaux Vintage 1945 recently cost me about $1000 to service (CHF 700 at the Swiss service centre). Let's say that this watch costs about $7000 new at retail (net of discounts) and is serviced every 5 years, after 35 years they'll have pocketed the equivalent of a second watch. Add a 2% inflation rate to the price of servicing and that becomes 25 years.

I admit that this is a relatively long time in ether scenario, but over the shorter term of say five to ten years they're earning an extra 15% to 30% revenue on ever watch. Not bad.


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## elixxxer

edwinxx said:


> I do not know how much control GO has over the swatch servicing team but to me Swatch is holding them back from being a truly high end brand.


I think this is actually quite important.

I have had two GO watches serviced, _both in Germany,_ and each experience was exceptional. The team was obviously keen on exceeding my expectations because I was introduced to the service representative I had been working with and a watchmaker that had serviced my watch when I visited Glashütte a couple of months ago. That's the kind of service one wants to support with their wallet and if the Swatch service centers are not up to the task, that is a problem for GO's brand equity.


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## aball

I see this a lot with high-end cars. They require a lot of service that costs a lot. It's not much different with watches unfortunately. High performance always comes with a high cost in nature.

Through the years I've read stories like this about pretty much every brand. It's easy to take a few bad cases and blow them up into generalizations, but we must not forget that the sample size we are talking about here is miniscule.


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## dbostedo

aball said:


> ...we must not forget that the sample size we are talking about here is miniscule.


And the follow on problem to that is that there IS no place to get data on a larger sample size. There's no JD Power, Consumer Reports, etc. for watches that would give you some sense of whether or not some brands are much more issue-prone than others. I wish there was.


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## WTSP

There are some data points that can be used though. Next time you’re at an AD, ask the person in charge of servicing how often overall they have to follow up a second time (or even more frequently) on watches after they’ve been serviced. You’ve got to find somebody who is actually trustworthy and candid mind you, who is willing to actually discuss it frankly.

The day when it really hit me was when I was talking to an employee at an AD that I had a good relationship with, and who told me that the return rate after servicing that he had observed for countless watches from various brands was about 50%. Some brands such as Rolex were better, others not so good. He stated that it was one of the toughest aspects of being in the business. I was definitely prepared to believe him as the majority of the watches that I’ve ever had serviced, about 80%, have involved something going wrong and returning once or multiple times to the service person/center. I still hold that after sales service a mess that must be fixed, otherwise the industry will not retain its customers.

Those who want to reassure themselves that negative service experiences are just one in a thousand, one in a hundred or even one in twenty are likely to have that assumption challenged repeatedly if or when they get their watches serviced.


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