# How can Laco claim "Made in Germany"?



## justins7 (Dec 11, 2012)

The movement -- the heart of the machine -- is made in Japan. So how can Laco claim "Made in Germany"? 
I am considering buying a B-type Laco, and this aspect doesn't matter much to me, but it does seem like the least authentic aspect of the watch. It's just plain silly to turn it over and see "Made in Germany... Miyota movement made in Japan" or whatever. Schizo watch. 

European companies get away with a lot of weirdness when it comes to origin of manufacture, and it's all the more absurd considering the premium people are paying for supposedly superior European movements, despite the fact that the Miyota ones are equally well-regarded. 

It closely parallels the world of German cameras -- in the 1970s Leica started manufacturing in Canada, Portugal and Japan (where the company actually gained in technological knowledge). Now, though, those lenses and cameras not made in Germany are now worth less because of this Euro-mystique. 

This makes me appreciate my cheap Chinese watches more because at least they are honest!


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## sci (Aug 6, 2009)

What is the difference to all other German manufacturers (including again Laco), which are "Made in Germany" with Swiss movements from ETA or Selitta inside? I think there is a regulation similar to Swiss made, like at least 51% of the value of the product and the final assembly & QC to be made in the claimed country of origin. I suppose Laco is not markingbtheir products illegaly.
At the other side I agree, that the meaning of "Made in Germany" is not the same as back in the middleof XX century and the romantic of inhouse production is no more there...


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## Runaque (Feb 5, 2013)

In Europe you may add the "Made in ...." on goods when it is assembled in Europe. In this case the housing of the watch may have been made in Europe, but the movement isn't, but it's still assembled in Germany.

A stupid example, clothes have been made in China, but the label from the brand mentions "Made in Belgium", this is not a complete lie because the label has been made and attached in Belgium, perfectly legal!


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## justins7 (Dec 11, 2012)

I know it's all legal, but it's just plain absurd. Obviously the main value European goods have are the branding aura of "Olde Europe" -- and they are capitalizing it by stretching the truth. To me it actually tarnishes the reputation since we know what's really going on. Who are they really fooling? Wouldn't it be better to just leave it off completely?

American cars are assembled from international bits, right? They don't have "Made in USA" blinged in giant letters onto the rear, do they?


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## Runaque (Feb 5, 2013)

I don't see a problem with it, as long if you get a good quality timepiece for the money you pay for it, but that's my opinion about it.
It's a lot cheaper to use a movement that proved itself already then developing one by their own, it would only make the watch more expensive.


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## Anxietyprone (Jul 26, 2012)

I wonder if the percent requirement for a watch to be "authentic refers to the distribution of its components' weight or length or volume or some unidentified mystical belief in how things should be? Does anyone know? For example the weight of a metal bracelet alone could be 60% or more of a watches total mass. If that bracelet was made in Switzerland or Germany then the rest of the watches components could be made in China or Japan and still qualify as "authentic." ...but that would seem unethical.


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## arnz3 (Dec 8, 2011)

There have been several posts regarding 'made in germany'... here's one for example


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

justins7 said:


> The movement -- the heart of the machine -- is made in Japan. So how can Laco claim "Made in Germany"?
> I am considering buying a B-type Laco, and this aspect doesn't matter much to me, but it does seem like the least authentic aspect of the watch. It's just plain silly to turn it over and see "Made in Germany... Miyota movement made in Japan" or whatever. Schizo watch.
> 
> European companies get away with a lot of weirdness when it comes to origin of manufacture, and it's all the more absurd considering the premium people are paying for supposedly superior European movements, despite the fact that the Miyota ones are equally well-regarded.
> ...


If the case, case back, bezel, crown, and dial are built from a solid block of German steel by a German engineer, does that not make it a German made watch... It does in my book. Watches are more than a movement and the amount of Made in Germany varies per watch manufacturer ranging from assembled by a German from various material suppliers, to full in-house, movement and all. As for Laco specifically, I'm not sure how much of the watches are actually German and that's why I don't own one.


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## Denslen (Jan 22, 2007)

It's a global economy. Fewer parts are availble from certain places anymore, and when they are they may command a premium price meaning a product that is too expensive. Reminds me of Walther PPK pistols. Many made after WW2 were actually made by Manhurin in France, but still marked made by Walther in Germany. 

Derek


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## LH2 (Oct 25, 2009)

I like the style of Laco watches (heck I own 4 of 'em) but I have a feeling that their cases are being done in Asia. When I asked Laco customer service about where the case was made on one of mine, they wouldn't tell me. They only said "not Germany"... That's pretty much all I need to know.

Laco isn't alone in this regard though. I think many of the more affordable German watches have their cases done elsewhere. For example, I learned that Sinn has some cases done in Switzerland for them but still does most of their cases at SUG Germany.


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## Horologic (Apr 26, 2012)

Was that a Miyota Laco or an ETA Laco you were asking about when they told you that ? I guess I expect it from the Miyotas, but disappointing if even their higher end watch cases are made in China (or wherever) I wonder if the dials and hands are sourced there too ?


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

justins7 said:


> This makes me appreciate my cheap Chinese watches more because at least they are *honest*!


Your watches actually say "Copied in China from Swiss designs" on the back? I'm impressed. I've yet to buy a Chinese watch that had anything written on it at all.

However, as arnz3 mentioned, this subject has already been well discussed and beaten on WUS; I suggest using the forum's search function and be sure to include applicable keywords associated with this subject like "Swiss Made".


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

Horologic said:


> Was that a Miyota Laco or an ETA Laco you were asking about when they told you that ? I guess I expect it from the Miyotas, but disappointing if even their higher end watch cases are made in China (or wherever) I wonder if the dials and hands are sourced there too ?


That would be news to me too. It's already been mentioned here a few times in the past that the Miyota cases are imported, but the ETA cases are another story.


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## sci (Aug 6, 2009)

I think I have read comments from Laco before (even here in WUS) that the higher-end B-Uhr (straight lugs) and Marine (high bezel) cases are made in Germany.


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## LH2 (Oct 25, 2009)

Uwe W. said:


> That would be news to me too. It's already been mentioned here a few times in the past that the Miyota cases are imported, but the ETA cases are another story.


The Navy 44 I asked Laco about is an ETA watch. Uwe, maybe you have a contact at Laco that would at least tell you which models are - or definitely aren't - made in Asia. But then they don't *have* to tell anybody, so they probably won't. But that leads to threads like this one, and if the origin of the case is a mystery, people might assume China, right or wrong.

Telling me the case is NOT made in Germany could mean it is Swiss made. But then I think they'd probably tell me it was Swiss made.


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## bjoernbertelsen (Jul 31, 2012)

Once you've visited a couple of German manufacturing companies and a few non-German, you will know why the letters "made in Germany" adds value to the product.

Oh, btw. my iPhone says " Designed by Apple in California Assembled in China" on the back.

I believe the legislation is something about how much work is being done (or value being added) in the specific countries before you can label it "made in XXX", even though it doesn't entirely come from that country. 


Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk


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## brainless (Jan 3, 2008)

Uwe W. said:


> Your watches actually say "Copied in China from Swiss designs" on the back? I'm impressed.


Hi Uwe,

that sounds hostile and arrogantly to me: They don't need such a print as long as they don't copy - and there are *genuine Chinese* watches! :-!



> I've yet to buy a Chinese watch that had anything written on it at all.


Just buy a Seagull "1963 Chrono" Re-Issue and you will get it written on the dial: Made in China

I do agree with you, referring to fake watches, but not referring to Chinese watch industry in their entirety.



> That would be news to me too. It's already been mentioned here a few times in the past that the Miyota cases are imported, but the *ETA cases* are another story.


There are *no* cases at all that are made by ETA and used by LACO.
In general, Swiss cases are far more expensive than cases made in Germany. Not to mention Chinese cases.......

Volker ;-)


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## sci (Aug 6, 2009)

Hi Volker, actually we call ETA cases/ETA models the watches of Laco which are fitted with ETA movements. For example you can clearly distinguish the cases of the B-Uhrs which are Miyota powered with those, which incorporate ETA movements. The latest were mentioned early in the forum, to be made in PF/Germany by the exclusive Laco design.


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

brainless said:


> There are *no* cases at all that are made by ETA and used by LACO.


o|



sci said:


> Hi Volker, actually we call ETA cases/ETA models the watches of Laco which are fitted with ETA movements.


Thank you sci.


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## justins7 (Dec 11, 2012)

OP here. My Seagull (as pointed out above) is pretty clear: it says right on the dial in Chinese "Tianjin Watch Factory". That's what I mean by honesty. 

Anyway, my original point is that if manufacturing is so global now -- a fact that is actually a great benefit in many ways -- that they simply should leave this type off the watch. What's the point? It winds up looking fake and ugly. Assuming that most people are ordering these watches online they probably have done their research, know enough about the product and therefore don't need any type on the back at all; they know that it's made all over the place.


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## logan2z (Sep 23, 2012)

Some interesting reading on the subject:

http://m.thelocal.de/money/20120116-40137.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f71/german-made-requirements-65306.html


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## sci (Aug 6, 2009)

I have been in Laco location and I have seen the watchmakers working inside. Of course you can not compare it with giant like Seagull with completely closed production cycle. But the small enterprices have their charm and exclusivity. Nevertheless a big Laco with Durowe production next to it would be great... but those times are gone.
As for Made in Germany article - I support that change. And I am surprised the business is not supporting it - today there are already enough products compromising the Made in Germany label, more strict requirements will protect it in the future.


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## Chris-John (Mar 24, 2011)

I guess when you see "Made in Germany" on something, you expect perfect quality because the Germans are masters of manufacturing, regardless of where the work really gets done. It's all fluff really, but if the company is German, and the quality is first rate, I don't care.


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## cbr2012 (Apr 14, 2013)

to be labelled 'Made in xxx" there should be a minimum content requirement. Say 50% of the value of the item concerned or equivalent..

thinking about it further - they must be tax (i.e. avoidance) considerations at play here also


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## hbk75 (Dec 25, 2006)

Made in Germany means assembled in Germany. A lot of materials are still sourced from Asia.


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## CM HUNTER (May 16, 2011)

hbk75 said:


> Made in Germany means assembled in Germany. A lot of materials are still sourced from Asia.


Not across the board by no means. German steel is used in plenty of German Made watches as well as the production of cases, bezels, pushers, dials, hands, etc... Do your homework and you'll quickly learn that there is plenty of German manufacturing that exists and plenty using locally sourced materials. Up to you to research and find out which German watch companies are doing so.


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## Porsena (Feb 20, 2013)

CM HUNTER said:


> Not across the board by no means. German steel is used in plenty of German Made watches as well as the production of cases, bezels, pushers, dials, hands, etc... Do your homework and you'll quickly learn that there is plenty of German manufacturing that exists and plenty using locally sourced materials. Up to you to research and find out which German watch companies are doing so.


Henckels, Eichhorn etc. but then again I also love knives...


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## elconquistador (Jul 13, 2010)

So if the movement is Swiss it is ok to call it German but if it is Japanese it is not?

Don't get me started on 90% of manufacturers buying the finished movements from eta, engraved rotor and all then showing videos of them carefully assembling movements. 

I for one am glad eta is restricting sales.


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## watchamatic (Jul 27, 2013)

To me, as long as Laco complies with all the laws regarding being able to label their watches made in Germany and as long a the expected quality standards are met, then it is okay. But even if everything were sourced and assembled in Germany, but the quality is bad and below par, they may as well label it made in China. Made is Germany simply means superb quality to me while Made in China means hit or miss quality, mostly miss, with no customer service whatsoever. That may not be a fair statement, but that is just how most people think at the moment. Just my 2 cents worth.


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