# Stowa vs Archimede vs Laco



## Cleindian44

Hi folks,

I know this subject (or something similar) has probably been beat to death over the years, but I thought I'd bring it back yet once again.

I'm looking for a flieger style watch, now that my way-too-big-for-my-wrist Debaufre Nav-b has found a new home. I'm considering the following:


Stowa Airman (preferably the non-logo model)
Archimde Pilot
Laco Pilot or Observer
Is there anything I need to know about one of the other? I haven't found anything negative about none of these.

The Stowa is more than the other two, but is it really worth the extra money?

I'm confused - does the Laco have a mineral or sapphire crystal? One website says mineral and others say sapphire.

Opinions are greatly appreciated - thanks!


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## Bhanu Chopra

If I had a budget of around $500 and given these choices for an average wrist, my choice would be Archimede M Pilot or the regular Archimede Pilot.
I love the no logo dial; flat sapphire crystal; and the quality of the Ickler case.

Ofcourse, of all the middle priced Pilots watches I consider Stowa as the high end due to its superior quality and lume. But you pay a premium.

Laco's regular line of watches is good but there needs to be some changes to the dial. Hopefully that change will come after the custom Laco :-d

Cheers,
Bhanu


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## brainless

@hotnerd:

Hopefully that custom Laco will come soon............b-)


brainless


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## inlanding

I own both the Stowa Airman and the ARCHIMEDE.

They are different in several ways that may or may not be important to you.

1. Both are excellent values
2. Both have 2824 movements
3. ARCHIMEDE casework is bead-blasted, Stowa casework is brushed
4. Stowa Airman case is slightly larger than ARCHIMEDE 39mm case
5. Stowa Airman lume is about as good as you'll find on most any timepiece
6. ARCHIMEDE flat crystal, Airman is domed
7. Stowa offers date, no date, logo, no logo combinations
8. Stowa offers COSC, ARCHIMEDE does not
9. ARCHIMEDE is priced lower
10. Airman is very well refined compared to ARCHIMEDE
11. Both company's customer service is top-shelf, superlative in every regard
12. Have not heard of an unhappy owner of either watch

But...you will get opinions left and right, all well-justified.

The Airman ends up on my wrist more often than the ARCHIMEDE, and I will keep them both.

Don't know much about the Laco, except I have the LE on order.

I might not be of much help...:think:

Glen


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## thodgins

What is the lug-tip to lug-tip measurement of the Archimede case?


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## twigfarm

Although I can't comment on the Laco, I can on both the Stowa & Archimede:

In the past I've owned both the Archimede Pilot (both black & white dialed versions) & the Pilot M. I currently own a Stowa Airman.

First off, in my opinion, the casework of the Stowa is far superior to the Archimede and worth the extra $ right there. Don't get me wrong - the casework on the Archimedes' was fine - just not anywhere near as refined as the Stowa.

Date window: This was the killer for me with the Archimedes'. Placement of the date window between 4 & 5:00 *to me* looks haphazard & stupid on most watches. And on an Airman-style watch it definitely looked out of place. I couldn't live with it on any of the 3 Archimedes I owned and sold each very shortly after I received them.


























On the other hand, if you need the date feature then Stowa offers the most elegant solution I think you're going to find, placing it at the 6:00 position. To me it doesn't interfere anywhere near as much as placing it elsewhere on the dial. And if you don't need a date feature, then of course, Stowa offers that option as well (which was my choice):


















And as Inlanding & others have said, the lume on the Stowa is just about second to none. It's so bright it seems like it should be bad for you.

Both maker's watches are great watches, but in the end I think for the extra money you'd be happier with the Stowa. I know I was (and am).

Good luck!

Dave


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## Cleindian44

Thanks to all who opined!

Based on the feedback that I've received, I'm leaning really hard towards the Stowa. With the Euro conversion (ordering directly from the manufacturers), the current price of the Archimede would be $455 plus shipping, the Stowa (w/o logo) would be $789 plus shipping. You guys are convincing me that I'm getting more watch for the additional $300+ dollars. However, I do like the flat crystal of the Archimede (similar to my Sinn 856 which I adore!), and the additional $300 would go a long way towards a Hamilton Aviation QNE (which I also plan to add to the collection).

I'm really suprised that more people didn't speak up about the Laco, given its history. I was pretty set to order one due to the history and cost. However, when I read on a website that the watch had a mineral crystal, that was a deal breaker for me.

My watch fund currently has $400 in it due to the sale of my Debaufre Nav-b, and my PT Cruiser will be paid off next month. Looks like there will be a Stowa in my future!b-)


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## inlanding

Side by Side:

1. ARCHIMEDE 39mm Pilot 46mm lug to lug
2. Stowa 40mm Airman 48mm lug to lug










Airman Lume Shot for your review...


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## Janne

Cleindian44 said:


> I was pretty set to order one due to the history and cost. However, when I read on a website that the watch had a mineral crystal, that was a deal breaker for me


Hi1 I hope I am not too late with my opinion.
Yes, both Stowa and Laco have the "history". We are a bunch (50) of guys waiting on our new Laco's.
Laco uses a Saphire crystal, not Mineral
Check out the MilPil forum!

So if your budget is a bit tight, you might consider getting a Laco now, and a Stowa later.
Check out www.laco.de site also in English.
Soon, hopefully, you will enjoy a lot of wrist shots of Laco watches here!
Greetings Janne


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## Cleindian44

Hi Janne,

No, you're not too late - I haven't pulled the trigger yet!

Thanks!


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## Guest

I´d go fo he Stowa No Logo because of the provided "purism".


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## inlanding

If you are still leaning towards the Stowa, it'd be a good idea to continue.

Look forward to seeing the one that you receive... :-!

Glen


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## jerseywatchman

Having owned all 3 of these, the Stowa is the nicest, offering better detail/fit/finish.


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## brainless

quote:
_" Yes, both Stowa and Laco have the "history". We are a bunch (50) of guys waiting on our new Laco's."

_ Janne is right - but............many, if not most, of that bunch already owns or ordered a STOWA LE for about twice the price of the LACO LE.;-)

I don't want to be misunderstood: LACO sells watches of good quality ( I am a member of the bunch mentioned by Janne), but........I rather choose a STOWA, when comparing the two brands.

brainless


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## Guest

No objection


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## thodgins

I prefer the Stowa because of the blued hands. They are really nice. I haven't owned the other two brands, but based on looks alone I like the Stowa.


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## Cleindian44

I still haven't pulled the trigger. I saw on Stowa's website last night that if I order now, I would not receive the watch until September.

I have not had the opportunity to handle either (or see either for that matter). I do like the fact that the Archimede has a flat crystal. 

Since I originally posted my question, the Stowa has had a slight increase in price (or it could have been due to the dollar/Euro conversion). Right now, the Stowa no logo, no date model would cost me about $874 with shipping, the Archimede $512.

I still like the Stowa, but I 'm thinking about getting the Archimede and pursuing a Sinn 556 to go along with my 856.

Does anyone have a profile shot of the Stowa Airman so that I could see how high the crystal is? I understand that the watch has a slightly domed crystal. 

Thanks!! :thanks


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## Guest

Don´t know if this is of any help to you:










Fortis
Damasko DA 37
Archimede
Stowa Flieger










Stowa
Archimede
Damasko
Fortis


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## bydandie

Cleindian44 said:


> I still haven't pulled the trigger. I saw on Stowa's website last night that if I order now, I would not receive the watch until September.
> 
> I have not had the opportunity to handle either (or see either for that matter). I do like the fact that the Archimede has a flat crystal.
> 
> Since I originally posted my question, the Stowa has had a slight increase in price (or it could have been due to the dollar/Euro conversion). Right now, the Stowa no logo, no date model would cost me about $874 with shipping, the Archimede $512.
> 
> I still like the Stowa, but I 'm thinking about getting the Archimede and pursuing a Sinn 556 to go along with my 856.
> 
> Does anyone have a profile shot of the Stowa Airman so that I could see how high the crystal is? I understand that the watch has a slightly domed crystal.
> 
> Thanks!! :thanks


The one thing to consider for me is that the watches are not mass produced. Sure, it'd take until September for the watch to arrive but you're then getting a watch made for you rather than off a shelf somewhere. I'm sure that Archimede are the same, but the attention to detail of the Stowa and history as an Uhr-B OEM seals it for me. I'm now expecting mine the end of July and I ordered in 13 June, it's the price we pay for craftsmanship.


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## Cleindian44

bydandie said:


> The one thing to consider for me is that the watches are not mass produced. Sure, it'd take until September for the watch to arrive but you're then getting a watch made for you rather than off a shelf somewhere. I'm sure that Archimede are the same, but the attention to detail of the Stowa and history as an Uhr-B OEM seals it for me. I'm now expecting mine the end of July and I ordered in 13 June, it's the price we pay for craftsmanship.


Thanks, Bydandie!

Another reason for me to consider the Stowa.


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## Biggie_Robs

I don't have a Stowa flieger, but no watchmaker has ever looked at my MO LE without saying something to the effect of "That is a very nice watch!" Two of the three watchmakers had never heard of Stowa, but immediately recognized the quality. 

I have no experience with Archimede.

I've had a pleasant customer service experience with Laco involving the WUS project watch, but I've not held the watch yet. I have high expectations.


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## thodgins

I would say go for the Stowa. I am super happy with my new Stowa Flieger Original. Not only are you buying a great watch, but also getting good customer service. The Stowa Airman is definitely worth the wait.


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## incognito

I love my Archimede Pilot M, but I'm still looking for a Stowa Airman.

They are both great... but for budget reasons, Archimede wins


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## usc1

I have had the archimede and stowa but never a laco. as far as the two i have had, i like the finish on the stowa better. stowa has an awesome lume. archimede is the bang for the buck though. extra dough=stowa. on a budget=archimede.


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## carver

Hey guys, I have been reading your posts and just wanted to ask if anyone could recommend a trusted website where I could order a Laco pilot series 1? I live in asia and I am a first time buyer to pilots watches and have checked the watches you have mentioned. Main reason for me opting for Laco is budget and the fact that I like the 42mm diameter. Any advice would be great!


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## Janne

Check out Lacos own site, www.laco.de ! I believe they ship worlwide!
Also, a nice selection of straps etc.
Good luck!


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## carver

Cool, thanks for the info!


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## roadshadowww

Just ordered my Laco Observer 42mm from Watchmann. I'll see how the Pilot watch look goes with me before I spend the extra bucks.

Should be be Wed.


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## Janne

roadshadowww said:


> Just ordered my Laco Observer 44mm


44mm? 42mm!


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## Cleindian44

Well guys, I finally decided. I went with the Archimede. In the end, the lower cost, positive comments and flat crystal won me over.

However, I'm not done with Stowa. Since I posted my original thread, I have fallen for the Marine Original, even though the Marine may be better given its slightly smaller size. I may even start a thread asking people to post pictures of both watches especially if they have smalll wrists.

My watch fund has been replenished with the $300 or so dollars that I saved from not buying the Airman. Looks like I'll be emailing Jorg when they return from vacation.


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## robred

Whichever you decide to go for, I'm sure you will not be disappointed.
:-!


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## bydandie

Cleindian44 said:


> Well guys, I finally decided. I went with the Archimede. In the end, the lower cost, positive comments and flat crystal won me over.
> 
> However, I'm not done with Stowa. Since I posted my original thread, I have fallen for the Marine Original, even though the Marine may be better given its slightly smaller size. I may even start a thread asking people to post pictures of both watches especially if they have smalll wrists.
> 
> My watch fund has been replenished with the $300 or so dollars that I saved from not buying the Airman. Looks like I'll be emailing Jorg when they return from vacation.


Hope you enjoy your watch, I'm thrilled with my Stowa Airman! :-!


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## doughboyr6

watchmann has good pricing on the laco watches compared to laco's main website....quite a big difference. I know where i'll be ordering from.


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## Janne

Depends only the Exchange rate.
Laco Factory: Laco 861465 Brown calf riveted 2-piece strap strap 490 Euro (US$ 659) incl. worldwide shipping
WatchMann: Laco 860884 Black riveted 2-piece strap 326 Euro (US$ 440) Free shipping in the US only.

NB! Different watches (?), but they look the same. I am not sure what WatchMann sells. NOS? Laco.de do not list the 860884.

Can it be a lower spec, US only watch?


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## doughboyr6

hmm...good call. i didn't look in that detail..that will be something i have to ask/clarify beforehand then. I just looked @ the pics and they looked identical and assumed same watch.


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## Janne

Yes, it is strange. Identical look and written specs. Maybe different grade of the movement? I have always assumed Laco used the Base. ??
The best person to ask is, I would think, Herr Pfeffer at Laco.


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