# Why are Orient prices so good?



## Bruce Wayne (Feb 1, 2013)

I am interested in the Ray and Mako. I cannot believe what a low price they have for the rave reviews everyone is giving them. Good movement, great lume, striking appearance, quality craftsmanship... is it too good to be true? How is this possible?


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## Balad1 (Nov 29, 2012)

They make nice watches and use their own movements.

They are an excellent value, especially the more reasonable priced models.

Amazon.com normally has excellent pricing on the line.

Check out these two:

Orient Automatic Dive Watch CEM75004B (Orange Bezel Mako II): Watches: Amazon.com

Orient Men's Orange Mako XL 200m Diver's Watch 21 Jewels CEM75001M: Watches: Amazon.com


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## WnS (Feb 20, 2011)

1. Japanese manufacturing is highly automated and efficient. 
2. Orient owns most of the necessary equipment for watchmaking, if not their parent company Seiko will take care of it. No need for 3rd party contractors
3. The Japanese are more competitive than the Swiss
4. Orient's lower end models use mineral crystal, and movements lack handwinding and hacking - this saves cost.
5. Most of Orient's bracelets have inferior fit and finish compared to entry level Swiss


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## Bruce Wayne (Feb 1, 2013)

Thanks for the responses.


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## Balad1 (Nov 29, 2012)

Here's a used one on the Bay.

Orient Men's Orange Mako Automatic Dive Watch CEM75001M Pre Owned | eBay

And a new one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ORIENT-...46?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item51a70528b2&_uhb=1


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## BLKVTR (Jul 29, 2012)

I think there prices are where they SHOULD be for what you get, same with seiko your not just paying additional for a name on the dial.


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## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

WnS said:


> 1. Japanese manufacturing is highly automated and efficient.
> 2. Orient owns most of the necessary equipment for watchmaking, if not their parent company Seiko will take care of it. No need for 3rd party contractors
> 3. The Japanese are more competitive than the Swiss
> 4. Orient's lower end models use mineral crystal, and movements lack handwinding and hacking - this saves cost.
> 5. Most of Orient's bracelets have inferior fit and finish compared to entry level Swiss


Handwinding is pointless if you wear your watch enough. And even without it, you swing the watch few times and it will recharge. I have two watches and i swing the second one that i don't wear here and there through the day and it hasn't stopped yet. Hacking, maybe, but with such rather big time deviations from day to day in seconds, rather pointless. Great on super accurate quartz, pointless on normal Automatics.

I also can't agree on the bracelet. Seiko 5's that i have is very light and sort of feels a bit cheap but the Mako's bracelet is all solid link design which is pretty heavy and the security link is pretty chunky. While the fold over clamp isn't solid, i don't see much need in it. When i was buying Seiko 5 i've also tried a 350 EUR Certina and it's metal bracelet didn't feel particularly better than the one i have on a 120 EUR Mako.

I do however miss an option for a sapphire crystal over the dial. I mean yes, that would kill the price accessibility but it would make the Mako more expensive for what, 50 EUR ? Summing up the price to around 170-180 EUR total. It would still be probably the cheapest sapphire crystal enhanced entry watch. Frankly, if there was an option to get the CEM65001B with sapphire for such price i'd probably take it. But doing it myself or at some watch shop, it would get way more expensive. Anyway, i'm sure a lot of ppl would opt for the sapphire if it was a possibility on every existing model that otherwise has mineral crystal.


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## WnS (Feb 20, 2011)

Relax rejzor, I'm not criticising Orient, I'm just thinking about how they can sell watches for so cheap. Movements without handwinding and hacking have less parts and are thus slightly cheaper to produce. They are also quite reliable (less warranty costs). As for bracelets, my Orient Star Classic's bracelet is nice, but it falls short of Swiss watches I've played with - e.g. my Oris and TAG (but those are far costlier watches).


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## GTR83 (Dec 26, 2010)

To be honest, after getting to know a lot of Orient watches, I've started thinking that some Seiko watches are slightly overpriced... But I'm not going to open a whole new can of worms. 

Cheers,
George


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## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

Like you said, "they cost significantly more". OrientStar's also cost more and i bet bracelets on these are even better. But for the given price, even low end Orient's have excellent bracelets.


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## Mtech (Jan 2, 2010)

The real question is why do the other brands charge so much more than Orient? 

It is business, as such Orient is selling their product at a fair price calculated to gain a reasonable operations margin. Are the other brands hampered by excessive overhead costs, excessive marketing costs, excessive raw material costs? I doubt that Orient pays less for stainless steel and other raw materials than other brands, so the answer must be that the others are burdened by excessive excess.

I have 10 Orients, so I am somewhat burdened by excess myself....but I think I can handle it )


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## gagnello (Nov 19, 2011)

The bracelets are not good at all on the lower end models like the mako. They use mineral crystal and the bezel is pretty useless because it requires 1000 ft lbs of torque to turn it. With this said, it is still a great value for the price.


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## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

Mako is a 120 EUR Automatic. Do you seriously expect a sapphire on such watch? I don't, but some apparently do... and bezel on my Mako turns effortlessly. It has just enough resistance so it doesn't rotate by itself but when i want to move it it goes around easily. And this is on a brand new watch that has no wear on the bezel mechanism. But thats Mako 1, the first version. Newer ones may have stiffer bezel rotation...


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## Bruce Wayne (Feb 1, 2013)

I appreciate all the insight. Thanks for confirming the feeling I had about the many positive Orient reviews. I couldnt wait any longer not to commit to the fantastic prices on this brand. Tonight I decided to join the Orient club. Ordered the Blue Ray!


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## watchNoob (Dec 3, 2007)

A lot of good points have been raised, but I suspect that there are other reasons for Orient's quality/price ratio:

1) They have been making mechanical watches for a very long period of time, so not only are their development and tooling costs amortized over a long history, they may also have a human resources legacy to rely on. Some Japanese companies have a corporate culture which retains expert workers for long periods that are unusual in the West, and since mechanical watches do require human assemblers at key steps in the production process, I think that has helped their well-known consistency.

2) Orient is owned by the Seiko Epson Corporation which is actually a different corporate entity from the Seiko Watch Group that makes Seiko Watches [although they have some common shareholders and supply each other with components]. Seiko Epson, being primarily focused on "industrial" items like printers, imaging semiconductors and printed circuit boards, spends even less money on marketing than Seiko Watch Group [which itself is not big on marketing compared to the Swiss]. They don't have the brand name recognition and celebrity endorsements so can't charge the same markups that many of the Swiss brands do.


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## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

Orient is also strictly focused on mechanical watches only. They don't make any quartz or digital. So that probably also has something to do with it.


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## Bradjhomes (Jun 18, 2011)

RejZoR said:


> Orient is also strictly focused on mechanical watches only. They don't make any quartz or digital. So that probably also has something to do with it.


While I haven't seen any digital, they certainly make quartz watches. For any brand at the affordable end I the market it would be a big mistake not to. While people here will certainly favour mechanical watches (and a large part of Orient's range is mechanical), they wouldn't want to alienate a large percentage of the population who want a strap-on-and-go quartz.


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## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

My bad, they indeed make them, but their main focus are mechanical watches.


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## wiarumas (Jun 11, 2011)

Brand reputation means a lot. A lot of expensive brands don't have their cost justified. Likewise, Orient found its niche as a quality for low price reputation. I heard they tried changing it - getting rid of the 50% coupon on orient watch USA for example. But then they are put in a new league of competitors and I'm not quite sure their watches would be as appealing. So, less profit margin, but making up for it in units sold vs more profit but less volume.


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## Fuzzylogic (Dec 26, 2012)

Bruce Wayne said:


> I appreciate all the insight. Thanks for confirming the feeling I had about the many positive Orient reviews. I couldnt wait any longer not to commit to the fantastic prices on this brand. Tonight I decided to join the Orient club. Ordered the Blue Ray!


my blue Ray says hello and welcome to the club!


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## Tommy C (Nov 28, 2012)

Fuzzylogic said:


> my blue Ray says hello and welcome to the club!
> View attachment 964234


Great looking watch! The only thing I wish Orient would have done better is the 2nd crown. The one on the Mako XL is much nicer.


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## Fuzzylogic (Dec 26, 2012)

Tommy C said:


> Great looking watch! The only thing I wish Orient would have done better is the 2nd crown. The one on the Mako XL is much nicer.


Yes, I wish it was just a little less prominent. Took me a while to get over it before I finally order the watch. For the price and the quality of the watch overall, I can over look it.


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## Beena (Jan 12, 2008)

Congrats on the purchase and I understand your questioning of the low price of them. I was dubious of all the love that the Mako gets and thoroughly expected it to be a little bit shoddy and cheap feeling when I finally took the plunge and bought one. When it arrived I was genuinely astounded at the high quality of it. It shames some of the watches I've tried on that cost five times as much and it is glued to my wrist now. You won't regret buying it. It has certainly opened my eyes to new possibilities and I'm looking to buy a Bambino this month now too.


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## JR1 (Nov 23, 2012)

Orients may be affordable, but they are not cheap. they are of very decent quality at a fairly low price. Orients might as well be invisible to me before. then when i joined the forums, i wondered why there is so much love for them. i investigated and found them to be of good quality and actually desirable. since i have no dedicated dress watch i decided to get a bambino. from that point on i was sold on Orient. i have been converted from an Orient snob to a fanboy.


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## Beena (Jan 12, 2008)

JR1 said:


> Orients may be affordable, but they are not cheap. they are of very decent quality at a fairly low price. Orients might as well be invisible to me before. then when i joined the forums, i wondered why there is so much love for them. i investigated and found them to be of good quality and actually desirable. since i have no dedicated dress watch i decided to get a bambino. from that point on i was sold on Orient. i have been converted from an Orient snob to a fanboy.


What kind of Bambino have you got? I'm looking at getting a stainless black dial one. Do you have a wrist shot?


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## JR1 (Nov 23, 2012)

Beena said:


> What kind of Bambino have you got? I'm looking at getting a stainless black dial one. Do you have a wrist shot?


i got a black dial SS bambino. looking to add a white dialled bambino but am still undecided whether to get it in SS or RG.

here's the only wristshot i have with the bambino taken while i was attending church services.


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## Beena (Jan 12, 2008)

JR1 said:


>


Thanks. They are a great looking watch! What size wrist are you rocking?


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## JR1 (Nov 23, 2012)

Beena said:


> Thanks. They are a great looking watch! What size wrist are you rocking?


NP. get yours ASAP you won't regret it. my only regret was that i overlooked it for so long. my wrist is 6.5".


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## Beena (Jan 12, 2008)

JR1 said:


> NP. get yours ASAP you won't regret it. my only regret was that i overlooked it for so long. my wrist is 6.5".


Pretty much the same as me then (mine is 6.75). I'm going to get one at the end of the month, it's decided


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## JR1 (Nov 23, 2012)

Beena said:


> Pretty much the same as me then (mine is 6.75). I'm going to get one at the end of the month, it's decided


congrats in advance Beena!


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## kpc001 (Mar 10, 2011)

For the money, the bracelets for the Mako XL and the Ray are excellent. Relatively heavy, substantial and wide. Very comfortable on my wrist, and they look good. Probably the nicest bracelet I've ever felt on an inexpensive watch is the stock bracelet on the Seiko Monster. The bracelets for the Make and Ray are close to that, in my opinion. Not quite there, but close. And when when you're buying a Ray for $125, or a Mako XL for just a bit more than that, that is saying something. I don't know if the original Mako bracelet is inferior. I don't own one.


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## kpc001 (Mar 10, 2011)

For the money, the bracelets for the Mako XL and the Ray are excellent. Relatively heavy, substantial and wide. Very comfortable on my wrist, and they look good. Probably the nicest bracelet I've ever felt on an inexpensive watch is the stock bracelet on the Seiko Monster. The bracelets for the Make and Ray are close to that, in my opinion. Not quite there, but close. And when when you're buying a Ray for $125, or a Mako XL for just a bit more than that, that is saying something. I don't know if the original Mako bracelet is inferior. I don't own one.


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## Redeemer (May 14, 2011)

*AW: Why are Orient prices so good?*

If you are looking for a mako with sapphire and superluminova then checkout www.orientuhren.de 
I bought my mako there but had to buy the sapphire from yobokies because Mr Keller didn't offer it yet. Now he is offering all the mako models with sapphire and superluminova upgrade for about 200 €.

Gesendet von meinem HTC One X mit Tapatalk 2


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## Robocaspar (Jan 4, 2013)

*Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?*

My only issue with that site is the 19% tax that's included, even if you order from outside Euro Zone. Im assuming it's because he had to pay the 19% when importing/buying his watches pre-modification and he has to pass along the cost to his customers. It's reasonable, but still bumps the price up to 300$ USD + shipping instead of 250$ without the VAT.



Redeemer said:


> If you are looking for a mako with sapphire and superluminova then checkout www.orientuhren.de
> I bought my mako there but had to buy the sapphire from yobokies because Mr Keller didn't offer it yet. Now he is offering all the mako models with sapphire and superluminova upgrade for about 200 €.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem HTC One X mit Tapatalk 2


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## thekitkatshuffler (Jul 23, 2012)

*Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?*



Redeemer said:


> If you are looking for a mako with sapphire and superluminova then checkout www.orientuhren.de
> I bought my mako there but had to buy the sapphire from yobokies because Mr Keller didn't offer it yet. Now he is offering all the mako models with sapphire and superluminova upgrade for about 200 €.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem HTC One X mit Tapatalk 2


Thanks for the supplier recommendation. Should save a good amount in import charges for us in the EU. :-!


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## pieronip (Nov 25, 2010)

*Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?*



Robocaspar said:


> My only issue with that site is the 19% tax that's included, even if you order from outside Euro Zone. Im assuming it's because he had to pay the 19% when importing/buying his watches pre-modification and he has to pass along the cost to his customers. It's reasonable, but still bumps the price up to 300$ USD + shipping instead of 250$ without the VAT.


He doesn't pay the 19% on importing because his supplier is outside the EU. Have you tested to see if the checkout removes the VAT for non-EU buyers? It should! If it does not, I would ask the seller what his policy is. As far as I can determine, it is an offence to FAIL to charge VAT for EU customers, but NOT an offence to charge extra to non-EU customers although the extra charge should not be called VAT. It is effectively an unfounded surcharge for non-EU residents.

Cheers.

Paul


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## Robocaspar (Jan 4, 2013)

*Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?*

I will check if the charge is removed further down the checkout line. At the initial checkout when you see the cart and choose your country the tax remains when selecting Canada. 


pieronip said:


> He doesn't pay the 19% on importing because his supplier is outside the EU. Have you tested to see if the checkout removes the VAT for non-EU buyers? It should! If it does not, I would ask the seller what his policy is. As far as I can determine, it is an offence to FAIL to charge VAT for EU customers, but NOT an offence to charge extra to non-EU customers although the extra charge should not be called VAT. It is effectively an unfounded surcharge for non-EU residents.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Paul


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## Robocaspar (Jan 4, 2013)

*Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?*

Turns out the 19% is removed at the payment window. Good news.


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## pieronip (Nov 25, 2010)

*Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?*

That's great. I have always found OrientUhren to be very good so I didn't think they would get this wrong.

Cheers.

Paul


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## Wile E. Quixote (Dec 28, 2012)

*Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?*

Orient's bracelets aren't that bad. They certainly aren't any worse than the stock bracelets that ship with the Seiko SKX series of divers, which also have hollow end links and use a pin and collar system to hold the links together. That being said there are plenty of great bracelets out there from Strapcode, Yobokies and other vendors and if you're willing to spend another $60 you can get an excellent bracelet with screwed together links. I don't know if there are any bracelets with solid end links for the Mako/Ray. I put a Strapcode 22mm Super Oyster on my Seiko SKX last week and if I can get it off of my wrist I'll see if it fits on my Mako or my Ray.


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## Mot524 (Sep 12, 2011)

Bruce Wayne said:


> I am interested in the Ray and Mako. I cannot believe what a low price they have for the rave reviews everyone is giving them. Good movement, great lume, striking appearance, quality craftsmanship... is it too good to be true? How is this possible?


Orient makes great watches and they're great values. Too good to be true? No. You're not getting a $4000 Seamaster for $125. There are a number of differences between a Ray and your typical expensive Swiss dive watch. The latter will have a sapphire crystal, possibly a display caseback, solid end links, a better clasp, a hacking and handwinding movement that runs at 28.8k beats per minute, the movement will have tighter accuracy specifications, it will probably be more water resistant, and the polished bits on the Ray's bracelet would probably be separate pieces of a Swiss bracelet. Basically for an extra $1000+ you get something that's somewhat more complicated, built to tighter tolerances, and at least in the case of the crystal, built using better materials. You can decide for yourself whether or not that's worth it to you. To most people it certainly isn't.

But if you compare the Ray to something in its own price category, then I think it's a clear win. Like an Invicta Pro Diver. Orient has much more watchmaking heritage, Invicta has had horrible quality control problems in the past, Orients seem to be much more accurate out of the box, and the Invicta is basically just an exact copy of a Rolex Submariner with none of its own style.

(Note re: the above about Swiss watches. Just because they have certain features doesn't mean they're better in every way. For example, with the higher beat rate, they require expensive servicing much more frequently. No thanks, I'll go with the lower beat rate all day long.)


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## Bruce Wayne (Feb 1, 2013)

Mot524 said:


> Orient makes great watches and they're great values.


I am totally blown away. Got my Blue Ray yesterday and it is solid, just as many of you have said. The dial is ridiculously good looking in the dark blue, and so far it is running flawlessly. So long as it continues running well, I will continue looking into Orient. Awesome, just awesome. Glad I purchased.


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## Mot524 (Sep 12, 2011)

Bruce Wayne said:


> I am totally blown away. Got my Blue Ray yesterday and it is solid, just as many of you have said. The dial is ridiculously good looking in the dark blue, and so far it is running flawlessly. So long as it continues running well, I will continue looking into Orient. Awesome, just awesome. Glad I purchased.


I got mine in December and have been wearing it almost every day since. I love it too.


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## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

Mot524 said:


> Orient makes great watches and they're great values. Too good to be true? No. You're not getting a $4000 Seamaster for $125. There are a number of differences between a Ray and your typical expensive Swiss dive watch. The latter will have a sapphire crystal, possibly a display caseback, solid end links, a better clasp, a hacking and handwinding movement that runs at 28.8k beats per minute, the movement will have tighter accuracy specifications, it will probably be more water resistant, and the polished bits on the Ray's bracelet would probably be separate pieces of a Swiss bracelet. Basically for an extra $1000+ you get something that's somewhat more complicated, built to tighter tolerances, and at least in the case of the crystal, built using better materials. You can decide for yourself whether or not that's worth it to you. To most people it certainly isn't.
> 
> But if you compare the Ray to something in its own price category, then I think it's a clear win. Like an Invicta Pro Diver. Orient has much more watchmaking heritage, Invicta has had horrible quality control problems in the past, Orients seem to be much more accurate out of the box, and the Invicta is basically just an exact copy of a Rolex Submariner with none of its own style.
> 
> (Note re: the above about Swiss watches. Just because they have certain features doesn't mean they're better in every way. For example, with the higher beat rate, they require expensive servicing much more frequently. No thanks, I'll go with the lower beat rate all day long.)


Of course there are many differences if you're comparing watches separated by 40 times the difference in price. It's like comparing Ferrari 458 and Fiat 500 and wonder how can a Ferrari be so much better.

Compare OrientStar models with your Seamaster and all the "big" differences will all of the sudden disappear or become an unimportant minor difference. But comparing Makow ith Seamaster, it's just pointless. Mako is not even trying to go into that zone...


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## Mot524 (Sep 12, 2011)

RejZoR said:


> Of course there are many differences if you're comparing watches separated by 40 times the difference in price. It's like comparing Ferrari 458 and Fiat 500 and wonder how can a Ferrari be so much better.
> 
> Compare OrientStar models with your Seamaster and all the "big" differences will all of the sudden disappear or become an unimportant minor difference. But comparing Makow ith Seamaster, it's just pointless. Mako is not even trying to go into that zone...


I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn't trying to criticize, just to explain that Orient isn't "too good to be true." My blue Ray is my favorite watch and I think it's a great deal, but I'm not going to say it's better than a Seamaster or whatever.

For $90 you can get an Invicta Pro Diver on Amazon, significantly less money than the Orient Mako or Ray, and with very similar specifications. And many people are extremely happy with their Invictas. Personally I think the Mako and Ray are much better watches but you can see that it's not a miracle that Orient is able to make a good dive watch in the $130 price range.


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## Erolek (Jan 8, 2013)

I've 2 Orients and their build quality is fantastic for the price.
The wide date ended up on rally strap, but solid links bracelet whichwas included is good enough.









And obviously Big Mako in blue. Pity mr. Keller started his sapphire and superluminova upgrade models only after I had bought mine. I'm thinking of replacing the glass with aftermarket sapphire. Suburst dial is simply stunning.









Greetings 
Eryk


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## Mil6161 (Oct 5, 2012)

2 good reasons right here!
View attachment 972905


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## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

The left one is quite nice. I alo like the way how Orient uses power reserve even on more "entry" level models.


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## Jayrims (Oct 19, 2008)

*Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?*

Orient is raising prices as you speak! Nice job with your post! 

Mako is listed at $285 right now. A review posted on Feb 4 2013 notes that the price was $215 ... WristWatchReview.com >> REVIEW: Orient Mako


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## RejZoR (May 12, 2010)

*Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?*

It costs the same on Amazon as it did around a month ago when i bought it...


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## Pete26 (Feb 17, 2006)

They have always been good value watches. I was recommended one by a jeweller in the early 80's as a viable alternative to seiko and Citizen. In those days you could even buy them in chemists along with Q&Q quartz and Timex. I picked up one for $45 and it was automatic. Now they are not even sold in Australia


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## olly0072003 (Jun 17, 2014)

they are great , ordered a mako xl about a month ago with the stunning blue dial , was so impressed ive just ordered another with white face and green bezel , I have an oris tt1 diver date too , this obviously feels better in every respect of fit and finish , but they cant really be compared , that would be daft , the orient watches are very very good value for money , you get a lot of watch for the money


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## Timbre (Apr 17, 2014)

Good value for $$$ paid. The case and movement is worth more than what you paid for a Swiss watch minus the bracelet.

If you want to nitpick, the bracelet is a letdown. But, this can be resolved, either buy a watch with better bracelet or change it.

Been wearing my blue ray for slightly more than a month. Accuracy is superb! Wear it almost daily and it never stopped. Some days, it looses seconds; some days, it gains seconds. Overall, it gained 20 seconds in 1 month plus period.

Steel bracelet is sharp and rough and catches scratches easily though

This is a short term review.


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## Pegleg2001 (Oct 30, 2009)

Just picked up a black Ray and loving it. I was missing the Pepsi Mako I flipped last year. I like the chunkier hands versus Mako and, of course, solid fit and finish. Lume is amazing. 

Definitely the best starter automatics out there and something a bit more stylish (IMHO) than a Seiko 5.


Sent from iPad Air


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## EamonnTheGreat (Jun 20, 2014)

Bruce Wayne said:


> I am interested in the Ray and Mako. I cannot believe what a low price they have for the rave reviews everyone is giving them. Good movement, great lume, striking appearance, quality craftsmanship... is it too good to be true? How is this possible?


Hi,

I think that Orient watches sold outside Japan, are made by Orient in their subsidiary in China... This explains why they are cheaper than Orient Star ones made 100 % in Japan. How come the back cases for all those watches doesn't have the mention "Made in Japan" knowing that all watches sold in Japan have this mention on the case back...!

Cheers.


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