# Buying my first "decent" pen. Any advice?



## sa-ora (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi everyone. I have decided to buy a couple of decent pens to rekindle my long lost passion. When I was young my dad was a fan of fountain pens and I had the pleasure of using some very good fountains on a daily basis and still today remember the pleasure of writing with them and refilling them. However since my teenage years I have been an average ballpoint pen user. My new job requires quite a bit of writing on a daily basis so I've decided to get a fountain pen, a rollerball and a ballpoint pen since I love using all three models. I like the smudge resistance of a ballpoint, the ease almost pressureless use of a rollerball and the beautiful lines produced by a fountain. Each pen will be used for specific circumstances. 

I have noticed though that there are quite a few brands out there and a lot of technical jargon in relation to parts, refills, nibs, etc. Is there any advice you could give on what are the main things I need to know/look for when purchasing my pens please? To give you an idea on my taste etc here is some information that may help: I intend to spend a maximum of GBP£150 for my first set of three pens. In terms of design I am more keen on straight sharp lines (industrial design style) and a Parker Facet Trio or a Waterman Perspective would be good examples to illustrate my design taste. In fountain pens I quite like the nibs with intricate decorative engravings as opposed to a nib with no or little engravings on it. 

One final question is: does the world of pens suffer from the "fake disease" similar to what the world of watches does?


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## Seele (Jan 9, 2010)

I must say it is an interesting idea to assign different tasks to different pens; so we'll just have to work backwards.

Let's face it: rollerball and ballpoint pens are nails: they do not offer any "give" at all and pretty much everyone considers that as how pens are meant to work, and in a very real sense, some also consider fountain pens to be not like that. This is not really true as there are indeed plenty of fountain pens who are veritable nails, without any give or line thickness variation. However, if you decide to go for one that does, like a nib offering some degree of flex, it would be something that needs getting used to if you're not brought up on one. So the first decision is what sort of performance characteristics you want from your fountain pen, and then think about the cosmetics and stylings of pens offering that combination of characteristics.

The pen market is not very different from watches, where fakes are quite common, but of course a bit of commonsense would be helpful: you just are not going to get a Montblanc Meisterstück for $50!


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## sa-ora (Jul 25, 2012)

Seele said:


> I must say it is an interesting idea to assign different tasks to different pens; so we'll just have to work backwards.
> 
> Let's face it: rollerball and ballpoint pens are nails: they do not offer any "give" at all and pretty much everyone considers that as how pens are meant to work, and in a very real sense, some also consider fountain pens to be not like that. This is not really true as there are indeed plenty of fountain pens who are veritable nails, without any give or line thickness variation. However, if you decide to go for one that does, like a nib offering some degree of flex, it would be something that needs getting used to if you're not brought up on one. So the first decision is what sort of performance characteristics you want from your fountain pen, and then think about the cosmetics and stylings of pens offering that combination of characteristics.
> 
> The pen market is not very different from watches, where fakes are quite common, but of course a bit of commonsense would be helpful: you just are not going to get a Montblanc Meisterstück for $50!


I was thinking that I could use the ballpoint for everyday usage when I don't write for lengthy periods. Use the rollerball for when I need to write for long periods since it is quite light and doesn't strain the hand. And use the fountain pen for formal occasions or for when I want to do some "nice" writing which has texture and the fountain pen makes thickness of the lines vary. For what it's worth I could get rid of the rollerball altogether and just use a fountain and a ballpoint.

In regards to the fountain I do agree that I do like some degree of flex so that the text lines do vary in thickness depending on the movement and pressure exercised.

In relation to the brands which brands are top 5 in my price bracket (£100 - £200 for a set of fountain+ballpoint)?

PS: Am I allowed to post questions in relation to particular online shops (whether they sell fake stuff or not?)?


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

sa-ora said:


> PS: Am I allowed to post questions in relation to particular online shops (whether they sell fake stuff or not?)?


I think the proper way to handle this is to ask "...what do people think of XYZ? please PM me." That way, you get the info you are looking for and the information is not posted publicly where it could lead to a debate.

As for the brands, that is a toughy! I am partial to the Namiki Falcon line as they have some flex added to the nib. With a metal body, the fountain pen comes close to exceeding your lower number. Problem is, I don't think they make a matching BP. You may need to consider vintage if you are looking for some degree of flex and a BP.

Regards,
Dan


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## sa-ora (Jul 25, 2012)

D N Ravenna said:


> I think the proper way to handle this is to ask "...what do people think of XYZ? please PM me." That way, you get the info you are looking for and the information is not posted publicly where it could lead to a debate.
> 
> As for the brands, that is a toughy! I am partial to the Namiki Falcon line as they have some flex added to the nib. With a metal body, the fountain pen comes close to exceeding your lower number. Problem is, I don't think they make a matching BP. You may need to consider vintage if you are looking for some degree of flex and a BP.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice. I'll post some online stores' names below to check and follow your advice re using PM.

Brand-wise I intend to go for something relatively cheap to start with such as Parker, Faber Castell, Watermann or Sheaffer (at least for the fountain option). Not sure which one of these 4 brands would be considered best or if they are on roughly the same level?

PS: The online shop I am currently looking to purchase from is called theonlinepencompany.com. If anyone has any feedback (good or bad) regarding this one could you kindly PM me please?


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## KevinP. (Dec 24, 2011)

£150 will get you some pretty decent pens.

Few things to look out for:

Length and weight of the pen - Get something you think that's a comfortable size for you to hold and write non-stop, fountain pens can be many times heavier and wider than a regular ballpoint

Nib - There is a lot to nibs. They come in different sizes, they range in extra extra fine (EEF/UEF) at 0.1mm to really broad ones that are 1.3+ mm wide. If you have small writing you may want to get something on the finer side. Note, Asian pen companies are usually a full grade smaller than Western brands. A Pilot medium nib would write a line similar in width to a Parker fine. Also, some nibs are more "wet" than others and put down more ink, some people like it and some like more dry lines. Another consideration is the amount of "flex" a nib has or doesn't have. A more flexible nib gives you more line variation as you apply more pressure to the pen. Again, this one purely subjective as some people like uniform lines and some don't.

Quality - This is a given but, whatever model/brand you like, just do your due diligence and make sure you get something that doesn't suffer from any QC issues.

Ink - Inks behave very differently, they all have different dry times, shading, water resistence, etc. After you find a color from a brand you like, just do a search, you'll find very short reviews with the characteristics of the ink.

Paper - Get fountain pen friendly notebooks or paper. These are marginally more expensive then normal paper and you likely won't suffer from bleed through (where the ink seeps through the other side of the page).

In terms of British sites, I've read positive reviews of these two (although I have no experience with them): Fountain Pen Specialists established 2000: The Writing Desk. Fountain Pens and Fine Writing Instruments, Fountain Pen Ink, Quality Stationery and Premium Writing Accessories. and Fountain Pens UK - London Fountain Pen Shop

La Couronne du Comte is located in the Netherlands and gets all sorts of praise.


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## sa-ora (Jul 25, 2012)

Well, in relation to the ballpoint I purchased a nice Waterman Perspective which was discounted by 60% (couldn't resist). As for the fountain pens I wasn't aware of all the variables they have. So I will visit a local shop to try a few of them and check their weight and the lines they produce in order to make a proper decision since I don't want to spend a lot of money on a fountain and then find out that I don't like it. 

I've done a bit of browsing so far and have nearly choked several times when I've seen the prices of some fountains. I never thought that a pen would cost in the thousands (unless it was entirely made of 24k gold:-x)


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## huyh (May 25, 2011)

What kind of nib are you looking for specifically? One that is italics or one that is flexible? They both give different line variations but in different ways. Flexible pens are a lot harder to find and are usually a lot more expensive (Noodler's are a cheap version). Italic nibs are also hard to find but they can easily be ground by any nibmeister. 

I think for your taste, a Lamy would fit your criteria the best. They have very modern industrial designs. They have very plain nibs though (fancy nibs kind of clash with modern designs), however, they have italic nibs and are cheap and easy to change. Lamy is probably one of the cheapest pens and are a great value for how much they cost.

Some other reputable brands you may consider (most of them with more traditional designs and are more expensive but have some pens in your price range):
-Pelikan
-Namiki/Pilot
-Taccia


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## sa-ora (Jul 25, 2012)

huyh said:


> What kind of nib are you looking for specifically? One that is italics or one that is flexible? They both give different line variations but in different ways. Flexible pens are a lot harder to find and are usually a lot more expensive (Noodler's are a cheap version). Italic nibs are also hard to find but they can easily be ground by any nibmeister.
> 
> I think for your taste, a Lamy would fit your criteria the best. They have very modern industrial designs. They have very plain nibs though (fancy nibs kind of clash with modern designs), however, they have italic nibs and are cheap and easy to change. Lamy is probably one of the cheapest pens and are a great value for how much they cost.
> 
> ...


In all honesty, I never even knew that there were so many types of nibs and am clueless about the terminology used. Basically I am after a fountain pen which produces medium size lines which do change their thickness. For example if I write the letter "b" (lower case): the tail will be same width (since it is a straight vertical line) but as the hand moves to write the round part of the letter the width of the line changes.

I just don't want a fountain pen that writes same width lines of which is something that can be easily done by a ballpoint. The attraction of a fountain pen for me has always been the variable thickness of the lines within a body of text that it produces.


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## KevinP. (Dec 24, 2011)

sa-ora said:


> In all honesty, I never even knew that there were so many types of nibs and am clueless about the terminology used. Basically I am after a fountain pen which produces medium size lines which do change their thickness. For example if I write the letter "b" (lower case): the tail will be same width (since it is a straight vertical line) but as the hand moves to write the round part of the letter the width of the line changes.
> 
> I just don't want a fountain pen that writes same width lines of which is something that can be easily done by a ballpoint. The attraction of a fountain pen for me has always been the variable thickness of the lines within a body of text that it produces.


Varying widths are a result of the pressure you apply and/or the nib. All pens have some 'flex' to them, some more so than others. Applying more pressure as you write causes the the line to be wider. Softer nibs or nibs with more flex to them require less pressure than nibs that are fairly rigid. Generally, steel pens are less flexible than gold nibs (and cheaper to). Any pen review you find will have comments about the nib.

Alternatively, you can just get a 'stub' nib. Due to the shape of the tip, stubbed nibs will always produce wide down strokes and finer cross strokes (assuming you're applying equal pressure).

I recommend a TWSBI 540 with a "1.1mm stub" nib. The brand and pen come very highly regarded and it's considered a bargain at $50-$55 USD. I have one and love it, I lost the original and had to buy a replacement. You can also get a Lamy Vista with a stub nib, these are like $25 USD and everyone says they're of great quality. I don't have one of these but am just passing the comments I see.

Definitely check out YouTube videos and writing samples that show the varying widths of every letter.

Something you might also like is "shading", it's when the ink has varying degrees of darkness and color within each stroke. Google images a few examples.


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## huyh (May 25, 2011)

sa-ora said:


> In all honesty, I never even knew that there were so many types of nibs and am clueless about the terminology used. Basically I am after a fountain pen which produces medium size lines which do change their thickness. For example if I write the letter "b" (lower case): the tail will be same width (since it is a straight vertical line) but as the hand moves to write the round part of the letter the width of the line changes.
> 
> I just don't want a fountain pen that writes same width lines of which is something that can be easily done by a ballpoint. The attraction of a fountain pen for me has always been the variable thickness of the lines within a body of text that it produces.


Sounds like you want an italic nib. I would definitely recommend something from Lamy for you for sure or even a Pilot 78g with a stub/broad nib. The Pilot has a more traditional look but it is a great writer and only costs about $13.

The thing with these stub/italic nibs you can buy is that they are really broad. If you write with small letters, it may not work very well for you. You would have to get a nib reground for you and you can get it done in any size you want and isn't really too pricey.

Here is what the Lamy 1.1 nib looks like:









Here is what a flexible nib can do. It changes line width by adding pressure on the downward stroke:


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## sa-ora (Jul 25, 2012)

The Lamy looks great for everyday use. 

However that writing done with the Namiki Falcon is absolutely stunning and personifies my ideal pen. That is stunning calligraphy.


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## huyh (May 25, 2011)

sa-ora said:


> The Lamy looks great for everyday use.
> 
> However that writing done with the Namiki Falcon is absolutely stunning and personifies my ideal pen. That is stunning calligraphy.


Glad you found something you like. Flexible nibs can be used for everyday writing too and work just as well as any other nib. They just are just more springy and can spread their tines when you press down.

If you want to try a flexible pen, Noodler's makes a $14 pen with a steel nib.

Here's a discussion comparing the 2 pens:
Comparing Noodler's Flex Pen And Namiki Falcon? - The Fountain Pen Network


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

sa-ora said:


> The Lamy looks great for everyday use.
> 
> However that writing done with the Namiki Falcon is absolutely stunning and personifies my ideal pen. That is stunning calligraphy.


I would have to concur. I own a Falcon in Fine and Medium. The Fine requires some patience as it is somewhat positional to me when I write. The medium is just divine. It is my most used pen, and if I had to sell them all, it is "the" one I would keep.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the Noodler's Flex. Sadly, each time I went to buy one, I convinced myself to buy a Pilot or Platinum vintage for more.

it's a disease like watches! ;-)

Dan


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## georges zaslavsky (Feb 11, 2006)

waterman laureat or waterman first generation expert are outstanding value for money


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## celloboy (Oct 12, 2009)

Also, try to go for a pen brand that is an inhouse manufacture. As WIS will appreciate, this is obviously very important when considering your purchase ;-) 

Many brands use Bock which is like the ETA of pen nibs.


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## Marquus (Aug 19, 2012)

Pens seem complicated, but far easier than watches. I'm a pen dealer with a growing interest in watches, and I'm pretty overwhelmed by it all right now. Relatively speaking, pens are uncomplicated but there's a lot of jargon which is largely marketing and some differences. Vintage pens have very significant differences from brand to brand, but as pens matured, they seemed to settle on a very small number of technologies for ink delivery. 

First, most pens nowadays share virtually the same technology. They differ in the way they get ink into the pen, but the way they deliver it to the nib (and eventually the paper) is pretty much the same. One of the biggest differences is going to be the nib - a gold nib or a steel nib? Obviously there's an enormous price difference between the two ($5 vs $150) and some will tell you its only snob appeal and some will insist that gold nibs have a better feel to them. A pen with a gold nib will generally start at $200, but its more likely it will run $300 retail for your standard pen with a gold nib. High quality pens with steel nibs can be had for under $50.

There's quite a bit of conversation here about flex and line width variation - lets be clear here, its your hand that creates the line variation, and the pen merely facilitates it. If you are anything like me, I can't write well with much variation even with the most remarkable flexible nibs from the 1930's. Writing with a flexible nib requires skill and patience. Stub and Italic nibs are much easier to get line variation for the handwriting-challenged (hand raised). If its line variation you are after, I'd start with a stub. Stubs and italics are similar in that they are flat (rather than round), with the difference being is that they round the corners on the stub making it less likely to catch the paper. An italic nib is more like a chisel.

As for flex - I'll argue there are no modern pens with flex. Yes, there are modern pens in which the tines of the nibs splay when you apply more pressure (generating line width variability), but their ink delivery systems are not designed to handle this properly. Even the Namiki Falcon which has a flexible nib does not really have the other components to deliver ink properly to a flexible nib. The Falcon shares the same ink delivery mechanism with MontBlanc, Lamy, Pelikan, Parker, Sheaffer, etc.

There is another term for nibs that they are "soft" - meaning that they feel good on the paper, but it generally doesn't provide line variation. Steel nibs are frequently described as "nails" because you can't get that soft feeling, while the high end pens with gold nibs strive for that luxury soft feeling.

So if all the pens have roughly the same delivery mechanisms (different filling systems), what are you shopping for? A tube with jewelry, basically. Plastic? Hard Rubber (like a bowling ball)? Metal? Some combination? Its purely a personal taste. I can't write with a metal pen, my hand sweats and the pen becomes slippery. I also don't like a heavy pen. Many Chinese pens are plastic over brass sleeves, and they are too heavy for me. There are some very expensive pens made from celluloid which was prevalent in the 30's and 40's, and pen aficionados swear by their soft feel and warmth. 

If it sounds to you that buying a fountain pen should be largely based on what feels right, then I've accomplished what I've set out to do. Nobody can tell you what will feel right in your hand or on paper. I could advise you that if you do air travel a lot, buy a cartridge filled pen (cartridges are easier to travel with than ink bottles), but generally you need to get into a pen store and write (with ink) with a bunch of pens to make a choice. Fountain pens are about feel. Out of my 200 pens, they all feel different - they have character to them. That's what makes this such a horribly addicting hobby.

And that brings us to the point of fountain pens - feel. There is no ballpoint in the world (or roller) that feels like a fountain pen when writing. The beauty of a fountain pen is that they are adjustable to your preference in the hands of a skilled practitioner (often called "nib-meisters"). That custom fit feel is unique to fountain pens, and can draw you into papers and their rag-content, inks and their viscosity, etc.


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## Kittysafe (Nov 28, 2011)

Is this the pen of which you speak?
Amazon.com: Namiki The Falcon Flexible Nib Fountain Pen, Black Resin Barrel, Soft Medium Nib, (60252): Office Products


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Kittysafe said:


> Is this the pen of which you speak?
> Amazon.com: Namiki The Falcon Flexible Nib Fountain Pen, Black Resin Barrel, Soft Medium Nib, (60252): Office Products


I am sure that is the pen he is speaking about. I have two myself, one in medium and one in fine.

I myself am confused about the discussion of flex and soft. Does flex mean that the feed can match the output of splayed tines whereas soft means they can't? The tines on the Falcons do splay.

What is also true is that if you write quickly, the tines will starve. If you write slowly, the Falcon delivers.

I consider the medium Falcon I own as one of the nicest writing instruments I have. With a light hand, it will spit out notes during an interview at break neck speeds. Used slowly, I can have fun with line variations.

The fine is harder to use. For me, it is far more positional. Have it in the proper position, and it is a nice thing to use. Off kilter? Scratchy.

All the best,
Dan


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## Kittysafe (Nov 28, 2011)

I think that might be the next pen I pick up, the only fountain pen I own is the one from my great grandfather, and as you know I won't see that until late November from the renovator, and I would like a good fountain pen to practice with in the meantime for my letter writing correspondences.


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## Marquus (Aug 19, 2012)

D N Ravenna said:


> I myself am confused about the discussion of flex and soft. Does flex mean that the feed can match the output of splayed tines whereas soft means they can't? The tines on the Falcons do splay.
> 
> Dan


Soft typically means that there is some give to the nib when its pressed against the paper, but the tines don't splay. Flex is when the tines splay when there is pressure.

Ink starvation is more common in modern pens because they use plastic feeds which don't stay as close to the nib when it splays than an ebonite feed. I understand these Noodler flexible nibs are using ebonite feeds.

The vintage pens' nibs were 14k, and the balance of the non-gold alloy have different properties than today's nibs. There are some modern 14k nibs, but most are 18k. The Falcon obtains its flex by trimming the shoulders of the nib (which is something that John Mottishaw can do to any modern pen, although with risk). The risk of putting too much pressure on a modern 18k nib is that you get the tines to splay but they never come back into position (sprung). There's a big discussion amongst the metallurgists in the pen community on Fountain Pen Network (if that sort of thing interests you).


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Marquus said:


> Soft typically means that there is some give to the nib when its pressed against the paper, but the tines don't splay. Flex is when the tines splay when there is pressure.
> .


Not to argue, but if that is true, how do you describe the line variation and "rail roading"?

Thanks,
Dan


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## Marquus (Aug 19, 2012)

line variation comes from tines splaying (flex). I haven't heard the term "rail roading", but I'm guessing that's when the tines splay and the pen isn't capable of feeding the ink properly.

I'm not sure what there is to argue?


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

Marquus said:


> line variation comes from tines splaying (flex). I haven't heard the term "rail roading", but I'm guessing that's when the tines splay and the pen isn't capable of feeding the ink properly.
> 
> I'm not sure what there is to argue?


I was referring to the Namiki Falcon, which has a "soft" nib, yet the tines splay.

Thanks,
Dan


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## Marquus (Aug 19, 2012)

I guess its nomenclature then. Generally, both flexible and soft nibs have give, the difference being a flexible nib splays while a soft nib doesn't. But once we enter the realm of marketing, all things are possible.


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## sa-ora (Jul 25, 2012)

Resurrecting this thread for a few more questions. I have purchased a Waterman Perspective fountain pen and a TWSBI 540. The Waterman was an impulse buy influenced by a heavy discount and the fact that I really like its "industrial design" style. The TWSBI was based on all those raving reviews I have read about this pen so far. I would have loved a clear see through plastic one or the limited edition one but unfortunately in the UK only the translucent yellow was available so i went for it. Nevermind, I can live with the yellow colour. 

Can I ask do both of these pens require specific inks or can I use them with any type of ink? And if the latter is there any brand of ink better than the others?


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## D N Ravenna (Apr 30, 2005)

sa-ora said:


> Resurrecting this thread for a few more questions. I have purchased a Waterman Perspective fountain pen and a TWSBI 540. The Waterman was an impulse buy influenced by a heavy discount and the fact that I really like its "industrial design" style. The TWSBI was based on all those raving reviews I have read about this pen so far. I would have loved a clear see through plastic one or the limited edition one but unfortunately in the UK only the translucent yellow was available so i went for it. Nevermind, I can live with the yellow colour.
> 
> Can I ask do both of these pens require specific inks or can I use them with any type of ink? And if the latter is there any brand of ink better than the others?


Both are fountain pens made of current materials, and as such, can be more or less impervious to newer, highly pigmented inks. With the Waterman, I have less of a concern. The translucent yellow of the 540 may not be the best for inks that stain.

For example, I have J. Herbins's 1670 Hematite. The bottle says it is a highly saturated ink and could stain. I had it in my 540 for four to six weeks with no discoloration. But you may not be as lucky. If you pay attention to the warning on the ink bottles, it may save you some grief.

Cheers!

Dan


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## sa-ora (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks for that advice Dan. I'll make sure I read the labels so that i don't stain the TWSBI.


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## icantgetthenameiwant (Dec 21, 2012)

I like Lamys and Heros. Cheap (to us), high quality, write well.


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## taylor16 (Dec 16, 2012)

Among my modest collection, I have been the most impressed by my Bexley Corona (medium nib). Fantastic pen.


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## Kittysafe (Nov 28, 2011)

I enjoy my Namiki Falcon, but honestly my great grandfather's 1962 Shaeffer's snorkel is now my favorite pen, it writes like a dream.


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## Uwe W. (Jan 7, 2009)

Kittysafe said:


> my great grandfather's 1962 Shaeffer's snorkel is now my favorite pen,


Great-grandfather?!? How old was _he _when he got it? It's not like you're five years old... ;-)


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## Kittysafe (Nov 28, 2011)

Uwe W. said:


> Great-grandfather?!? How old was _he _when he got it? It's not like you're five years old... ;-)


He was 85.


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## starter (Aug 21, 2010)

Seele said:


> ...you just are not going to get a Montblanc Meisterstück for $50!


Well it _is_ possible, ha ha... One of our long time members cut me a deal on a beautiful bordeaux Meisterstuck ballpoint for $50. He described it as much more used than it in fact was... A few light marks, but other than that, pristine. I took it in for a cartridge replacement and the fellow at the MB store couldn't believe my luck when I told him how much I'd paid...


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